# F1 2019



## Cherry13 (Mar 15, 2019)

So the first two practise sessions of the new season are complete, and itâ€™s looking good for a 3 way race between vettel, Hamilton and verstappen. 

Not looking good for Williams they are miles off the pace and could potentially need to write this wkend off as the cars canâ€™t run over the kerbs. 

Iâ€™m looking forward to this season although itâ€™s a shame thereâ€™ll be no live racing on tv. 

Could be the closest season in years, then again it could be over with 3 races left again if Ferrari decide to implode again.


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## MegaSteve (Mar 15, 2019)

With only one race on 'free to air' TV this year... 
Finding it difficult to raise any real enthusiasm for the season ahead... 

Also, the loss of Charlie Whiting is a real big downer for me...


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## Dibby (Mar 15, 2019)

I think tomorrow will be when we really find out how close it is. Still hard to tell who is pushing hard, and who is sandbagging.


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## robinthehood (Mar 15, 2019)

Yes, i'd expect the Ferrari's to be a lot quicker than they were in practice,


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## bobmac (Mar 15, 2019)

According to the experts, overtaking should be easier this year so pole position shouldn't be as important as in previous years


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## Dibby (Mar 15, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Yes, i'd expect the Ferrari's to be a lot quicker than they were in practice,
		
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I'm not sure whether we've even seen Mercedes run full out yet. They were definitely playing games in pre-season testing.

Ferrari have a history of revealing their cards earlier in practice, so will be interesting to see what happens here, or whether they have kept more in reserve.

I think Red Bull will be closer than last year, but I still think it's a 2 horse race with Merc and Ferrari very closely matched.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 15, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Yes, i'd expect the Ferrari's to be a lot quicker than they were in practice,
		
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The corrected times have all 3 within .4 of a second. But that can be a bit misleading. 

Mercedes will still have a lot left to offer, but the Ferrari engine looks good if Alfa are anything to go by. 

Real loss with Charlie whiting and it will impact some of the drivers as there was a real trusting relationship built up over many years.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 15, 2019)

bobmac said:



			According to the experts, overtaking should be easier this year so pole position shouldn't be as important as in previous years
		
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I hope so, but unfortunately weâ€™ve heard this too many times before.


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## Slab (Mar 15, 2019)

After watching regularly for a lot of years i've barely dabbled in the last 5. Tried a couple of races but its just so boring, and that's tragic when you think about the speed they're doing. And even worse when commentators wet themselves over a basic overtake 

I'll give it a go again this season to see if there's anything to excite viewers


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## SaintHacker (Mar 15, 2019)

I'm more excited about this season than I have been for a long time. Cars that can hopefully follow each other, Ferrari/Merc gap should be smaller, Kimi free from the Ferarri shackles and some really exciting youngsters coming through. Leclerc in particular I think might just upset a certain German more than once. I just hope Williams get their act together and move up the grid a bit.


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## Dibby (Mar 16, 2019)

Still nothing is certain, as we haven't had the race, but from qualifying, it looks like Mercedes were hiding their pace. Hard to tell with Red Bull due to the Gasly not getting out of Q1.


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## Pathetic Shark (Mar 16, 2019)

I gave up with F1 several years ago but it's still miles better than that pathetic electric go-kart event the BBC tries to ram down our throats.


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## Wolf (Mar 16, 2019)

Hoping Verstappen has a good go at is this year, bags of talent. 

I'm off to Germany for the full race weekend in summer so hoping we have a tight title race by then


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## MegaSteve (Mar 16, 2019)

Looking like Mercedes out sandbagged Ferrari in testing...

And,  a big thumbs up to Lando for a top ten start ðŸ‘...


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## duncan mackie (Mar 16, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Hoping Verstappen has a good go at is this year, bags of talent.

I'm off to Germany for the full race weekend in summer so hoping we have a tight title race by then
		
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That's the one I was looking to go to this year, but all the infield grandstand had been booked out when I looked months ago so I might go to an Endurance weekend instead....


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## robinthehood (Mar 16, 2019)

Anyone else getting up at stupid o clock to watch ?


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## Wolf (Mar 16, 2019)

duncan mackie said:



			That's the one I was looking to go to this year, but all the infield grandstand had been booked out when I looked months ago so I might go to an Endurance weekend instead....
		
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Booked ours a while ago, getting a coach over, accommodation for 4 nights and grandstands all included for practice days, qualifying and race day. Bonus is treating it as my stag do.


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## Wabinez (Mar 16, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Anyone else getting up at stupid o clock to watch ?
		
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Tempted. Watch that, and then head off to play golf


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2019)

Will probably watch the highlights but not getting up early to watch it. I'm interested in as far as I'd like to see how competitive the teams will be after the first few races or whether one (Mercedes) is way out in front. Other than that I think it's lost a lot of its appeal and I'm far more interested in something like touring cars where it's far more evenly matched. HID is talking about going to Thruxton this year


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## woofers (Mar 16, 2019)

Stopped watching years ago, when Coulthard, as a commentator, announced something like â€œthis is going to be really exciting, the overtaking will depend on the pit stop strategyâ€.....so, no overtaking on the track then.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 16, 2019)

woofers said:



			Stopped watching years ago, when Coulthard, as a commentator, announced something like â€œthis is going to be really exciting, the overtaking will depend on the pit stop strategyâ€.....so, no overtaking on the track then.
		
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I thought I heard this morning on the radio that in this race last year there were only 4 overtakes.


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## robinthehood (Mar 16, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			I thought I heard this morning on the radio that in this race last year there were only 4 overtakes.
		
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5 . But basing you're views of f1 on 1 race is pointless.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 16, 2019)

Australia is a street circuit which has always been difficult to overtake on. I wouldnâ€™t judge much based on this race.


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## woofers (Mar 17, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Australia is a street circuit which has always been difficult to overtake on. I wouldnâ€™t judge much based on this race.
		
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Like Monaco then, Iâ€™ve never understood why that is considered such â€œan eventâ€.


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## Slab (Mar 17, 2019)

Half way through and the battle for 12th is the only thing that's gone on

The series is on its rear end as a form of TV entertainment


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## Dibby (Mar 17, 2019)

woofers said:



			Like Monaco then, Iâ€™ve never understood why that is considered such â€œan eventâ€.
		
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Just history, really. Same as with golf, where some course or events are held in higher regard than others, but not due to the merit of the course design itself.


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## Robster59 (Mar 17, 2019)

If you want to watch real racing then watch MotoGP, Moto 2 and Moto 3. Great racing with incredibly close finishes. Last weekends opening races were a joy to watch.
I gave up watching F1 a long time ago as it's just not a racing spectacle any more.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 17, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			5 . But basing you're views of f1 on 1 race is pointless.
		
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The sport is crap. 1st of the blocks wins. Big yarn.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 17, 2019)

Apparently come 2021 it will be different as the dirty air will change and everybody if they are close enough will be able to overtake, if they are good enough


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## robinthehood (Mar 17, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			The sport is crap. 1st of the blocks wins. Big yarn.
		
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Happened less than half the races last year. You'd do well to actually watch rather than  whine about it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2019)

Another season and another boring race. Doesn't bode well and if it's so hard to pass on a street circuit perhaps they should remove from the rota and go to places where there is a chance to get by.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 17, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Happened less than half the races last year. You'd do well to actually watch rather than  whine about it.
		
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I do watch and YARN YARN YARN. I didnâ€™t watch this race and even the professional commentators are saying YARN YARN YARN. so even a no hoper like me isnâ€™t far wrong


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## jim8flog (Mar 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Another season and another boring race. Doesn't bode well and if it's so hard to pass on a street circuit perhaps they should remove from the rota and go to places where there is a chance to get by.
		
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 With spectator numbers exceeding the 300,000 mark for Melbourne I cannot see that happening.


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## Robster59 (Mar 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Another season and another boring race. Doesn't bode well and if it's so hard to pass on a street circuit perhaps they should remove from the rota and go to places where there is a chance to get by.
		
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The powers that be in F1 seem to want to put more street circuits on the calendar.  I can't imagine why as they are not conducive to good racing, certainly not with the current cars.  
Without REAL racing, it's not a spectacle.  Overtaking shouldn't happen in the pits, but on the circuit.
(oh and anotherdouble, it's *Yawn*, not Yarn)


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## anotherdouble (Mar 19, 2019)

Robster59 said:



*If you want to real racing then watch MotoGP, Moto 2 and Moto 3.* Great racing with incredibly close finishes. Last weekends opening races were a joy to watch.
I gave up watching F1 a long time ago as it's just not a racing spectacle any more.
		
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Thank you very much for correcting my spelling of the word YAWN, that is very kind of you to take the trouble. I am so thankful that people like yourself can find the time to spellcheck those of us who are so stupid as to make such basic mistakes. Rest assured I will try harder next time. Once again thank you..

Oh and the 1st line does not make sense


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2019)

Robster59 said:



			The powers that be in F1 seem to want to put more street circuits on the calendar.  I can't imagine why as they are not conducive to good racing, certainly not with the current cars. 
Without REAL racing, it's not a spectacle.  Overtaking shouldn't happen in the pits, but on the circuit.
(oh and anotherdouble, it's *Yawn*, not Yarn)
		
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Surely sooner or later fans will get bored of pit crews, team tactics and yellow flags dictating races. That's not racing, thats virtual F1. I don't think street circuits really bring anything to the party and I'd rather have room for a guy to brake late, cut down the inside and squeeze ahead.


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## Robster59 (Mar 19, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			Thank you very much for correcting my spelling of the word YAWN, that is very kind of you to take the trouble. I am so thankful that people like yourself can find the time to spellcheck those of us who are so stupid as to make such basic mistakes. Rest assured I will try harder next time. Once again thank you..

Oh and the 1st line does not make sense

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You're very welcome. Let me know if you require any further assistance.
Quite right on my first line. That's what happens when I use a swipe keyboard and don't check it afterwards.  Now corrected.


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## user2010 (Mar 19, 2019)

anotherdouble said:



			Thank you very much for correcting my spelling of the word YAWN, that is very kind of you to take the trouble. I am so thankful that people like yourself can find the time to spellcheck* those of us who are so stupid as to make such basic mistakes*. Rest assured I will try harder next time. Once again thank you..

Oh and the 1st line does not make sense

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You're not alone in that regard.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely sooner or later fans will get bored of pit crews, team tactics and yellow flags dictating races. That's not racing, thats virtual F1. I don't think street circuits really bring anything to the party and I'd rather have room for a guy to brake late, cut down the inside and squeeze ahead.
		
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Itâ€™s a bit simplistic to just blame â€˜street circuitsâ€™, Montreal is widely regarded as the most exciting race (usually because of the changeable conditions) and thatâ€™s a street circuit.  Some of the most recent purpose built racing tracks have been horrendous for overtaking, just look at Abu Dhabi.

F1 is a massively complex sport, and regardless of how you adapt the back of the cars and reduce the dirty air factor, there is always going to remain an optimal racing line which only one car can occupy. That means you have to manufacture a scenario where a car is at least 1-2 seconds faster than the car in front.  People think that by levelling out the cars performance this will increase overtaking, when in actual fact the opposite will likely happen and cars just revert to making sure they manage tires etc to remain in front and will cover each otherâ€™s pit stops.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 19, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Itâ€™s a bit simplistic to just blame â€˜street circuitsâ€™, Montreal is widely regarded as the most exciting race (usually because of the changeable conditions) and thatâ€™s a street circuit.  Some of the most recent purpose built racing tracks have been horrendous for overtaking, just look at Abu Dhabi.

F1 is a massively complex sport, and regardless of how you adapt the back of the cars and reduce the dirty air factor, there is always going to remain an optimal racing line which only one car can occupy. That means you have to manufacture a scenario where a car is at least 1-2 seconds faster than the car in front.  People think that by levelling out the cars performance this will increase overtaking, when in actual fact the opposite will likely happen and cars just revert to making sure they manage tires etc to remain in front and will cover each otherâ€™s pit stops.
		
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Just to add to this, at most tracks currently cars need to be 2 seconds plus faster to overtake.


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## robinthehood (Mar 20, 2019)

Despite the moaners, last year was a very good season an I expect more of the same this year, sure not all races are exciting, but then thats the same across all sports. Have you ever watched Burnley play football! Australia was good to see what the teams were like for pace with new regs and some changes to engines suppliers.
I've no desire to watch motorbikes slowly trundle round and round, F1 and Moto GP are incomparable.


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## Beezerk (Mar 20, 2019)

Itâ€™s only any good when there are crashes, other than that yawn yawn yawn, and I watch most races.


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## robinthehood (Mar 20, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Itâ€™s only any good when there are crashes, other than that yawn yawn yawn, and I watch most races.
		
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You find it boring but watch it anyway? Weird.


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## Beezerk (Mar 20, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			You find it boring but watch it anyway? Weird.
		
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Itâ€™s sport and I pay for Sky Sports so as a sports fan I will watch it. As I said, I watch it in the hope that something is going to happen, itâ€™s the perfect Sunday afternoon sport though where you can go and put the spuds on, come back and youâ€™ve missed nothing ðŸ˜‚


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## robinthehood (Mar 20, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Itâ€™s sport and I pay for Sky Sports so as a sports fan I will watch it. As I said, I watch it in the hope that something is going to happen, itâ€™s the perfect Sunday afternoon sport though where you can go and put the spuds on, come back and youâ€™ve missed nothing ðŸ˜‚
		
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i wont deny i sometimes have a sunday snooze for a lap or 2


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## Robster59 (Mar 20, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Despite the moaners, last year was a very good season an I expect more of the same this year, sure not all races are exciting, but then thats the same across all sports. Have you ever watched Burnley play football! Australia was good to see what the teams were like for pace with new regs and some changes to engines suppliers.
I've no desire to watch motorbikes slowly trundle round and round, F1 and Moto GP are incomparable.
		
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Slowly?  220mph+ top speed, cornering with the elbow down and the rear wheel sliding with tyre smoke at 100mph+, not only is it fast, it looks fast too.  When you see a bike braking from 170 to 50mph with the rear wheel in the air, that's what you call a spectacle.


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## robinthehood (Mar 20, 2019)

Robster59 said:



			Slowly?  220mph+ top speed, cornering with the elbow down and the rear wheel sliding with tyre smoke at 100mph+, not only is it fast, it looks fast too.  When you see a bike braking from 170 to 50mph with the rear wheel in the air, that's what you call a spectacle.
		
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For reference a F1 car is about 30 seconds a lap quicker around silverstone than a MotoGP bike. now thats fast!


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 20, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			For reference a F1 car is about 30 seconds a lap quicker around silverstone than a MotoGP bike. now thats fast!
		
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As a life long F1 fan, I would suggest F1 now is far too sterile, and whether the cars go quicker than a MotoGP (which I doubt) the drivers are far too protected now so the wow factor is being eroded in F1.


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## robinthehood (Mar 20, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			As a life long F1 fan, I would suggest F1 now is far too sterile, and whether the cars go quicker than a MotoGP (which I doubt) the rivers are far too protected now so the wow factor is being eroded in F1.
		
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The move to hybrid  power has changed the spectacle somewhat (noise), but there is still plenty of excitement to be had and with the governing body keen to improve the on track action it bodes well , although sadly from a TV perspective there is only 1 free to air race now.

Not sure how you can doubt 30 secs a lap difference as not being quicker than a bike though....


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 20, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			The move to hybrid  power has changed the spectacle somewhat (noise), but there is still plenty of excitement to be had and with the governing body keen to improve the on track action it bodes well , although sadly from a TV perspective there is only 1 free to air race now.

Not sure how you can doubt 30 secs a lap difference as not being quicker than a bike though....
		
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With all the wing technology I dont see the track action being anything like it used to be back in the days of Stewart,Hunt, Lauda, Andretti, Fitipaldi etc
The cars are too wide for the tracks, and the tracks too formulaeic in their layout. The head bolsters and halo device just ruin the cars, and take away a massive part of the fear factor.


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## SaintHacker (Mar 20, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			and whether the cars go quicker than a MotoGP (which I doubt) .
		
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The cars are much quicker than the bikes. Maybe not all out top speed, but the car accelerates faster and corners much faster than a bike can, and also has much better braking performance.


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## SaintHacker (Mar 20, 2019)

I don't understand this forum at times. Every year a thread is started about F1 by someone who likes it, for others who like it to discuss it as the season goes on. Yet every third post is someone telling us how they don't like it, its boring, no overtaking yada yada.
If you don't like it, don't open the thread and leave it to those of us who do!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 20, 2019)

SaintHacker said:



			The cars are much quicker than the bikes. Maybe not all out top speed, but the car accelerates faster and corners much faster than a bike can, and also has much better braking performance.
		
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Cornering speed in F1 is greater due to the amount of rubber in contact with the track.

Same for braking. 

Top speeds are broadly similar but Motogp bikes accelerate quicker. 

In any event it matters not which laps Silverstone the quicker as the two disciplines are massively different. 

Motogp is close racing with overtaking and, therefore, a sport.

F1 is a technical battle between car designers and engine manufacturers. Quite honestly it ceased to be a sporting event some years ago.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 20, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Cornering speed in F1 is greater due to the amount of rubber in contact with the track.

Same for braking.

Top speeds are broadly similar but Motogp bikes accelerate quicker.

In any event it matters not which laps Silverstone the quicker as the two disciplines are massively different.

Motogp is close racing with overtaking and, therefore, a sport.

F1 is a technical battle between car designers and engine manufacturers. Quite honestly it ceased to be a sporting event some years ago.
		
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Yes there is more rubber in contact, which certainly helps traction and stability in cornering, but itâ€™s more to do with the fact the car is effectively being sucked too the ground which enable them to corner so quick.
For acceleration Marquez did some testing on both, the results of that showed 0-100 moto gp wins, 100-200 f1 wins as electronics kick in. Top speed Moto gp has the edge.  

As for your last point about a technical race, Honda dominate MotoGP and do so through investment.  Both sports are won by the teams with biggest resources, and Iâ€™d also argue that the prospective winner of the f1 world title is less predictable than MotoGP.


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## Smiffy (Mar 21, 2019)

SaintHacker said:



			I don't understand this forum at times. Every year a thread is started about F1 by someone who likes it, for others who like it to discuss it as the season goes on. Yet every third post is someone telling us how they don't like it, its boring, no overtaking yada yada.
If you don't like it, don't open the thread and leave it to those of us who do!
		
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Yep, and it's the same old ones moaning every year.
They also moan about Strictly Come Dancing.


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## Slab (Mar 21, 2019)

SaintHacker said:



			I don't understand this forum at times. Every year a thread is started about F1 by someone who likes it, for others who like it to discuss it as the season goes on. Yet every third post is someone telling us how they don't like it, its boring, no overtaking yada yada.
If you don't like it, don't open the thread and leave it to those of us who do!
		
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I want to like F1 again, after not missing a race for years it feels like the entertainment has been robbed away in recent years though so I guess I vent in frustration (Its not many sports that when you reach the pinnacle its actually the poorest example to watch on TV)

The cars are too delicate & its sometimes too sterile. Maybe just harking back in nostalgia but give me gravel traps instead of run offs (that'll slow the entry speed down). Steering wheels that don't have 20 buttons to change car settings mid-race (so any issues impact performance & the car runs based on its pre-race set up) and no radio messages except for safety (driver has to manage his tactics except for pit-board)

Just these changes will alter how the driver and car perform and introduce a bigger element of uncertainty and unpredictability


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 21, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Yes there is more rubber in contact, which certainly helps traction and stability in cornering, but itâ€™s more to do with the fact the car is effectively being sucked too the ground which enable them to corner so quick.
For acceleration Marquez did some testing on both, the results of that showed 0-100 moto gp wins, 100-200 f1 wins as electronics kick in. Top speed Moto gp has the edge.  

As for your last point about a technical race, Honda dominate MotoGP and do so through investment.  Both sports are won by the teams with biggest resources, and Iâ€™d also argue that the prospective winner of the f1 world title is less predictable than MotoGP.
		
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Marquez would almost certainly win the title if he had been on a Ducati or even Yamaha. 

Obviously resources are important but it is still far more about the rider than F1 is about the driver. 

Just look at the comparison on closeness of results. 

Personally I enjoy the spectacle and tech of F1 but as far as excitement goes it isn't remotely close to Motogp.


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## Dibby (Mar 21, 2019)

I think there is a misconception that F1 is supposed to be all about the driver. Part of formula 1 is the constructors championship, and the teams ability to design and build the best performing car within the rules. Since the 1950's this has always been so, and despite peoples rose-tinted glasses when looking at the past, team domination is nothing new, since 1970, from memory there have only been 8 different constructors champions, each having a period of domination and then waning (some never to return) - Lotus, McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Renault (1 under Benetton name), Red Bull and Mercedes (1 under the Tyrell name and 1 under Brawn).


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 21, 2019)

I use to enjoy the F1 and loved being regaled by Hunt and Nelson Piquets mechanic whenever I played golf with them about life on the circus, who hated who and the tales of what when on after dark. it use to be a spectacle and the race was a thrilling climax to that. Today it has a more sterile, corporate air to proceedings and the racing and the atmosphere are in the same sterile manner. There is too little driver skill with everything at the touch of a button, too much involvement of teams through radios and in their pit tactics and the racing aside from the opening laps often descends into a procession bar some midfield battles. I would love to watch more often and be entertained but as it is there isn't enough there to entice me. I'll follow the championship as the season unfolds and enjoy some of the stuff written from the pit lane but can't sit there and watch it in the current format


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## bobmac (Mar 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Personally I enjoy the spectacle and tech of F1 but as far as excitement goes it isn't remotely close to Motogp.
		
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Thankfully we're all different or it would be a boring world


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## Dibby (Mar 21, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I use to enjoy the F1 and loved being regaled by Hunt and Nelson Piquets mechanic whenever I played golf with them about life on the circus, who hated who and the tales of what when on after dark. it use to be a spectacle and the race was a thrilling climax to that. Today it has a more sterile, corporate air to proceedings and the racing and the atmosphere are in the same sterile manner. *There is too little driver skill* with everything at the touch of a button, too much involvement of teams through radios and in their pit tactics and the racing aside from the opening laps often descends into a procession bar some midfield battles. I would love to watch more often and be entertained but as it is there isn't enough there to entice me. I'll follow the championship as the season unfolds and enjoy some of the stuff written from the pit lane but can't sit there and watch it in the current format
		
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I find this is a comment made by every generation about past generations being better than current, not just in sport, but all areas of life. I would say current F1 drivers probably have more skill than previous generations, just those skills are different. 

They may not be pushing a clutch pedal, and getting blisters from a stick shift gearbox, but I'm not sure it requires less skill to simultaneously be driving a car at 200mph, updating settings, managing temperatures and wear of components, activating DRS, having a casual chat with your engineer on the radio, whilst not missing your breaking point, and trying to keep someone behind you or get past someone in front.


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## robinthehood (Mar 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			Marquez would almost certainly win the title if he had been on a Ducati or even Yamaha.

Obviously resources are important but it is still far more about the rider than F1 is about the driver.

Just look at the comparison on closeness of results.

Personally I enjoy the spectacle and tech of F1 but as far as excitement goes it isn't remotely close to Motogp.
		
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Why not start a a motogp thread then and leave us to talk f1 in here. 
Interestingly since 2000 there have been 7 f1 champs from 6 teams. 
Vs
6 drivers from 4 teams in moto gp. 
Not really the great free for all its made out to be .


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 21, 2019)

Dibby said:



			I find this is a comment made by every generation about past generations being better than current, not just in sport, but all areas of life. I would say current F1 drivers probably have more skill than previous generations, just those skills are different.

They may not be pushing a clutch pedal, and getting blisters from a stick shift gearbox, but I'm not sure it requires less skill to simultaneously be driving a car at 200mph, updating settings, managing temperatures and wear of components, activating DRS, having a casual chat with your engineer on the radio, whilst not missing your breaking point, and trying to keep someone behind you or get past someone in front.
		
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Of all the F1 drivers of recent memory I think the most complete driver had to be Schumacher especially with his ability to deal with all weather conditions and find a way to get the job done. Of course all sport (and indeed life) is subjective and of course all sport moves on. You simply have to look at the level of golf now, how Woods moved the game forward, and how it was even as far back as Seve et al in the 80's to see it's completely different. I may have done the driving skill a disservice but do feel for the large part, the action on the track isn't as cut and thrust as it was. I'd also go as far as to say a lot of sports are cyclical and so will go through a fallow period in terms of competition and perhaps TV audience engagement, and then suddenly there will be two young protagonists coming through that move it forward again and renew interest.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 21, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Why not start a a motogp thread then and leave us to talk f1 in here. 
Interestingly since 2000 there have been 7 f1 champs from 6 teams. 
Vs
6 drivers from 4 teams in moto gp. 
Not really the great free for all its made out to be .
		
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What has that got to do with anything?

It would make more sense to compare the number of engine manufacturers that have won the two championships 

I am not knocking F1, unlike yourself with your remarks about Motogp, as I watch F1 as well as bikes and have never claimed that, overall, one is better than the other. 

However,  the disparity in the closeness of racing and overtaking is indisputable. 

F1 is a victim of the success of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved  who have made the cars so difficult for following drivers to remain close and then overtake without the artificial aid of DRS.


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## robinthehood (Mar 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			What has that got to do with anything?

It would make more sense to compare the number of engine manufacturers that have won the two championships

I am not knocking F1, unlike yourself with your remarks about Motogp, as I watch F1 as well as bikes and have never claimed that, overall, one is better than the other.

However,  the disparity in the closeness of racing and overtaking is indisputable.

F1 is a victim of the success of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved  who have made the cars so difficult for following drivers to remain close and then overtake without the artificial aid of DRS.
		
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No the point is I don't care for bike racing in any form and this thread is immediately hijacked by people telling us how crap f1 is and how great bike racing is.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 21, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			No the point is I don't care for bike racing in any form and this thread is immediately hijacked by people telling us how crap f1 is and how great bike racing is.
		
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Sorry but I hadn't realised that you had restricted the thread to adolescents like yourself.


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## Slab (Mar 21, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Of all the F1 drivers of recent memory I think the most complete driver had to be Schumacher especially with his ability to deal with all weather conditions and find a way to get the job done. Of course all sport (and indeed life) is subjective and of course all sport moves on. You simply have to look at the level of golf now, how Woods moved the game forward, and how it was even as far back as Seve et al in the 80's to see it's completely different. I may have done the driving skill a disservice but do feel for the large part, the action on the track isn't as cut and thrust as it was. *I'd also go as far as to say a lot of sports are cyclical* and so will go through a fallow period in terms of competition and perhaps TV audience engagement, and then suddenly there will be two young protagonists coming through that move it forward again and renew interest.
		
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Agreed, I find the Tour de France very cyclical 






I'll get my spandex coat


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## SaintHacker (Mar 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			I am not knocking F1, unlike yourself with your remarks about Motogp, as I watch F1 as well as bikes and have never claimed that, overall, one is better than the other.
.
		
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Apart from on the Moto GP thread



MetalMickie said:



			As a sporting event Moto GP is far superior to F1, which I also watch, due to the bikes being more evenly matched and it being far easier to create and take an overtaking opportunity .

.
		
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...


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 21, 2019)

SaintHacker said:



			Apart from on the Moto GP thread


...
		
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Are you seriously suggesting that the racing itself is not closer with more overtaking manoeuvres in Motogp?

When did you last see an F1 race with the top 7 finishers covered by 2.5 secs?

As I have said I am not knocking F1, after all I watch the races and much of the other coverage. The two events are different. 

F1 is the peak of technical development and therein lies much of its appeal whilst  Motogp represents  more of a spectacle from the actual racing between individuals.


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## Bunkermagnet (Mar 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			When did you last see an F1 race with the top 7 finishers covered by 2.5 secs?
		
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Do you not think that the physical size difference account for that?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 21, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Do you not think that the physical size difference account for that?
		
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Exactly and that coupled with the phenomenal aerodynamic efficiency of the cars means that there are very few circuits where we will get to see very much wheel to wheel racing. 

Which incidentally was rather  the point being made initially before some started getting all defensive.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			F1 is the peak of technical development and therein lies much of its appeal whilst  Motogp represents  more of a spectacle from the actual racing between individuals.
		
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In my opinion this is where f1 has actually got a bit lost.  It should be the forefront, it should be the best engineers creating the best technology, then raced by the best drivers in the world.  But in pursuit of trying to create a racing spectacle theyâ€™ve lost sight of that a bit and tried to reign in the tech.  
I actually want to see the innovation more than wheel to wheel racing. I want 6 wheeled cars, electronic suspension, double wings, triple diffusers etc.  Leave the wheel to wheel racing for le man or Indy car.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 21, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			In my opinion this is where f1 has actually got a bit lost.  It should be the forefront, it should be the best engineers creating the best technology, then raced by the best drivers in the world.  But in pursuit of trying to create a racing spectacle theyâ€™ve lost sight of that a bit and tried to reign in the tech.  
I actually want to see the innovation more than wheel to wheel racing. I want 6 wheeled cars, electronic suspension, double wings, triple diffusers etc.  Leave the wheel to wheel racing for le man or Indy car.
		
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I agree. F1 seems to be getting itself caught  between the two with some "artificial" rules being introduced in an attempt to create closer racing. 

Such is the excellence of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved the rule makers soon find that those attempts have been defeated. 

Carte blanche within a relatively loose Formula could lead to greater excitement as different  concepts could be pursued by different teams.


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## robinthehood (Mar 21, 2019)

It would be interesting, seeing as they already push the boundaries with little holes in the rims, overly flexible wings, exhaust redirection, oil burning etc...the designers are always coming up with clever tricks to eek out a little more power or aero.


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## Cherry13 (Mar 21, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			It would be interesting, seeing as they already push the boundaries with little holes in the rims, overly flexible wings, exhaust redirection, oil burning etc...the designers are always coming up with clever tricks to eek out a little more power or aero.
		
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I would love it. I think it would be incredible to see the limits of what they could create. Imagine Ferrari and Mercedes going head to head in an R and D war with no limitations.  

On a similar theme I think they should have a drug enabled olympics... imagine bolt on steroids... haha.


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## duncan mackie (Mar 21, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree. F1 seems to be getting itself caught  between the two with some "artificial" rules being introduced in an attempt to create closer racing.

Such is the excellence of the engineers and aerodynamicists involved the rule makers soon find that those attempts have been defeated.

Carte blanche within a relatively loose Formula could lead to greater excitement as different  concepts could be pursued by different teams.
		
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As you recognise, F1 has become an aero series. 
There were more gains to be had there than in increasing the engine output once any restrictions were introduced.
Then the engine restrictions increased, fuel restrictions came in, refuelling went out (strategy option killed) and don't even start on tyres!
Then you have the engine unit restrictions and penalties - again ultimate capability gets masked....
Melbourne is a bad example to consider any progress (but a good one for teams to view underlying competitiveness) but I wouldn't expect to see any significant difference in the stated objective through 2019 - the DRS changes will have way more impact (but whether they really mean anything in practice can't be predicted).
If you look at it eyes wide open, aero is the only opportunity for performance differential...and they are committed to fundamental rule changes in that area over coming years.
Not healthy.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 23, 2019)

SaintHacker said:



			I don't understand this forum at times. Every year a thread is started about F1 by someone who likes it, for others who like it to discuss it as the season goes on. Yet every third post is someone telling us how they don't like it, its boring, no overtaking yada yada.
If you don't like it, don't open the thread and leave it to those of us who do!
		
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Also happens on the Boxing/UFC thread.


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## cookelad (Mar 25, 2019)

For me F1 lost a lot of the tactical aspect when they did away with refuelling, I've barely watched a race since, the tyre degredation element seems forced/false and not in keeping with what, as others have said, should be an innovative sport. 

The best races are "always" those where there's an element of unpredictability to upset the procession, problem being that nowadays the teams have so much info that the can predict to within a few minutes the rainfall, for example, so they adjust their race strategies accordingly.


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## robinthehood (Mar 25, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Also happens on the Boxing/UFC thread.
		
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Just had a look, unbelievable. I amazed at how some on here get away with the constant ridiculous trolling .


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## robinthehood (Mar 25, 2019)

Bahrain up next and it will be another warm one. 
Looks like Lewis picked up floor damage on lap 4 that impeded his pace and he was happy enough in the end to bring it home in 2nd.
The Ferraris can't be as poor again can they? Let's hope they red bull get both cars in to q3 this time ðŸ˜‚


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## Robster59 (Mar 25, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			No the point is* I don't care for bike racing in any form* and this thread is immediately hijacked by people telling us how crap f1 is and how great bike racing is.
		
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No! Really!?  I like lots of Motorsport and used to love watching the F1 but I think F1 has developed itself into a corner. 
I'll glad you haven't tried to retaliate by hijacking the MotoGP thread. 
i just think you don't like anyone disagreeing with you.


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## robinthehood (Mar 26, 2019)

Robster59 said:



			No! Really!?  I like lots of Motorsport and used to love watching the F1 but I think F1 has developed itself into a corner.
I'll glad you haven't tried to retaliate by hijacking the MotoGP thread.
i just think you don't like anyone disagreeing with you.
		
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Thanks for letting me know.


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## WillC (Mar 26, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Bahrain up next and it will be another warm one.
Looks like Lewis picked up floor damage on lap 4 that impeded his pace and he was happy enough in the end to bring it home in 2nd.
The Ferraris can't be as poor again can they? Let's hope they red bull get both cars in to q3 this time ðŸ˜‚
		
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Interesting regarding Ferrari that Hamilton was saying how he still expects them to be really fast and it to be close this season. Mind games perhaps, but I hope itâ€™s true like you say and itâ€™s really close!

Good point about Red Bull, with Verstappen coming third perhaps a surprise, be good to have them up there too!


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## bobmac (Mar 26, 2019)

WillC said:



			Good point about Red Bull, with Verstappen coming third perhaps a surprise, be good to have them up there too!
		
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We might get to see some more punch ups in the pit lane too.


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## Beedee (Mar 27, 2019)

There was some talk that part of the reason for the Ferraris being slow was due to the bumpiness of the street circuit in Australia.  They were very fast on the "normal" circuit in Barcelona.  If that theory has any legs then they should be fast this weekend.

Also, interesting but very nerdy aerodynamics article here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47527705  It appears that Ferrari and Mercedes have gone a fundamentally different route, and one that will be expensive to reverse once the correct direction is found.


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## Robster59 (Mar 27, 2019)

Beedee said:



			There was some talk that part of the reason for the Ferraris being slow was due to the bumpiness of the street circuit in Australia.  They were very fast on the "normal" circuit in Barcelona.  If that theory has any legs then they should be fast this weekend.

Also, interesting but very nerdy aerodynamics article here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47527705  It appears that Ferrari and Mercedes have gone a fundamentally different route, and one that will be expensive to reverse once the correct direction is found.
		
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I remember reading that article and also an earlier one which hypothesised that based on pre-season testing Ferrari had stolen a march on the opposition.  It will be interesting to see how it develops.


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## robinthehood (Mar 27, 2019)

Beedee said:



			There was some talk that part of the reason for the Ferraris being slow was due to the bumpiness of the street circuit in Australia.  They were very fast on the "normal" circuit in Barcelona.  If that theory has any legs then they should be fast this weekend.

Also, interesting but very nerdy aerodynamics article here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47527705  It appears that Ferrari and Mercedes have gone a fundamentally different route, and one that will be expensive to reverse once the correct direction is found.
		
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It does make interesting reading, i had also seen it mentioned that the cooler temps during winter testing had also been a factor for ferraris good pace. Its going to be pretty hot in Bahrain this weekend,


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 31, 2019)

Hands up, I really enjoyed that race today. Full of incident. If they were all like that I'd be back as a regular viewer


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## robinthehood (Mar 31, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hands up, I really enjoyed that race today. Full of incident. If they were all like that I'd be back as a regular viewer
		
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Yeah excellent race,  I don't buy that point of view though. Every  sport has boring and indifferent days.
Hard going on leclerc,  was well in control untill his engine problems.  Looks like vettel still can't cope with actual racing ðŸ¤£


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## MegaSteve (Apr 1, 2019)

More of the same... Pretty please...


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## bobmac (Apr 1, 2019)

Yeup a good race.
I felt sorry for Leclerc.
I've liked him since I first saw him interviewed last year when he came across as a friendly, cheerful and even humble driver........unlike some I could mention who drive for RB

Should be a good season


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## SaintHacker (Apr 2, 2019)

As much as I dislike Ferrari I'm a big fan of Leclerc, you could see in the more junior formulas just how good he is, I've got no doubt he will be world champion in the next few years (and he's not even French, he's Monegasque, which makes it OK to like him). The only question is when do Ferrari stop giving Vettel preferential treatment?


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## Smiffy (Apr 3, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Yeup a good race.
I felt sorry for Leclerc.
I've liked him since I first saw him interviewed last year when he came across as a friendly, cheerful and even humble driver........*unlike some I could mention who drive for RB*
Should be a good season
		
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You really dislike him, don't you Bob???


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## bobmac (Apr 3, 2019)

Smiffy said:



			You really dislike him, don't you Bob???
		
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Yes I do.
He may have a great talent but that doesn't excuse his behaviour on and off the track.
Like father like son.


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## bobmac (May 27, 2019)

Well, that was nerve wracking.
Well done Lewis.


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## Smiffy (May 27, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Well, that was nerve wracking.
Well done Lewis.
		
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Bloody race is a procession. 
I want LH to win the WC but Monaco is a joke of a "race" circuit.
I could win it in an ice cream van if I made it to the 1st corner leading from the start.


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## Cherry13 (May 27, 2019)

Smiffy said:



			Bloody race is a procession.
I want LH to win the WC but Monaco is a joke of a "race" circuit.
I could win it in an ice cream van if I made it to the 1st corner leading from the start.
		
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Worst race on the calendar, although thankfully Canada next. Which is the most exciting in my opinion. 

Shame Ferrari canâ€™t seem to get there act together to make it an interesting title battle, and Bottas doesnâ€™t seem capable of keeping up with LH over a season.


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## User62651 (May 27, 2019)

Will Hamilton push to get past Schumacher's record? Looks a good chance of 6 titles the way this season is going and he's only 34.
Wins this year you'd have to think he'll try for 2 more.
What's old for a F1 driver?


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## MegaSteve (May 27, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Will Hamilton push to get past Schumacher's record? Looks a good chance of 6 titles the way this season is going and he's only 34.
Wins this year you'd have to think he'll try for 2 more.
What's old for a F1 driver?
		
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Michael Schumacher won his last F1 championship aged 35...


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## Cherry13 (May 27, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Michael Schumacher won his last F1 championship aged 35...
		
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Fangio was 46.... I think that is all irrelevant though.  Lewis still looks like he has 3-5 seasons left, at least. I think he COULD do it, but donâ€™t think he will.  Mercedes wonâ€™t maintain this form, and then his appetite may decline.


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## Beedee (May 27, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Mercedes wonâ€™t maintain this form, and then his appetite may decline.
		
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The next big rule changes are 2021 I think.  Mercedes are likely to be the best team again next year; after that who knows.  They have huge resources compared to everyone else and the modern Mercedes era came about through the last big engine rule changes, but Red Bull have Adrian Newey and he's the proven master in making the most of a rule change.  Ferrari have huge resources too, but they seem to be headless chickens at the moment.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 27, 2019)

I thought it was a great effort by Hamilton yesterday and you could hear on the radio the pressure he was feeling trying to nurse the tyres and get the car home and a big call by the team to keep him out on that compound but as a race it was a snore fest. I agree that sooner or later Ferrari will get it right and challenge week in, week out and if Hamilton isn't winning and Mercedes aren't dominant I wonder if he'll call it a day


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## robinthehood (May 27, 2019)

5 second penalty was quite a left off for verstappen.  But it was quite an entertaining race in the end . 

24


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## Stuart_C (May 27, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought it was a great effort by Hamilton yesterday and you could hear on the radio the pressure he was feeling trying to nurse the tyres and get the car home and a big call by the team to keep him out on that compound *but as a race it was a snore fest*. I agree that sooner or later Ferrari will get it right and challenge week in, week out and if Hamilton isn't winning and Mercedes aren't dominant I wonder if he'll call it a day
		
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Like most races?


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## Pathetic Shark (May 28, 2019)

I just don't get why the Monaco GP is such a big thing.  Yes it's in a glamorous part of the world but no-one ever overtakes anyone.   Once you've watched one lap round the famous course, you might as well fast forward the next 90 minutes.   There was more overtaking on the first lap of the Indy 500 than the entire Grand Prix.    Sorry but F1 has totally reached its sell-by date now.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 28, 2019)

Pathetic Shark said:



			I just don't get why the Monaco GP is such a big thing.  Yes it's in a glamorous part of the world but no-one ever overtakes anyone.   Once you've watched one lap round the famous course, you might as well fast forward the next 90 minutes.   There was more overtaking on the first lap of the Indy 500 than the entire Grand Prix.    Sorry but F1 has totally reached its sell-by date now.
		
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I agree the Monaco gp wasnt high on thrill factor or action, but it never has been and is in the same bracket as the Hungary gp. But the Indy500, geez that isnt any more exciting. Going round and round like balls in a bucket? Its just as boring, and even worse..... they give up if it rains


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## Pathetic Shark (May 28, 2019)

Going round in round in circles?  Sorry but isn't that the definition of Motor Racing?        Oval racing is a lot more exciting that street circuit Indy Car events.      And don't even start me on that electric go-kart thing that they are trying to ram down our throats.

Personal taste I know but if I was going to watch any kind of Motor sport event, the Indy 500 would be top of it and it's on my bucket list to visit one day.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 28, 2019)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Personal taste I know but if I was going to watch any kind of Motor sport event, the Indy 500 would be top of it and it's on my bucket list to visit one day.
		
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Compare it to Spa, Imola or Silverstone. Indy 500 doesn't come close (and yes I do dislike street circuits).
If I had to attend an oval race, it would be  Daytona. The banking is immense, and worthy of the awe it creates.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2019)

Pathetic Shark said:



			I just don't get why the Monaco GP is such a big thing.  Yes it's in a glamorous part of the world but no-one ever overtakes anyone.   Once you've watched one lap round the famous course, you might as well fast forward the next 90 minutes.   There was more overtaking on the first lap of the Indy 500 than the entire Grand Prix.    Sorry but F1 has totally reached its sell-by date now.
		
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Monaco is an ego fest. It has nothing to do with racing, all about sponsors and money. I'm not an F1 fan but was there the day after one year as we were on hoilday in the area. It is bonkers to have it as a race track and the reality is it is not a race track it is a processional track. They wont bin it but they really should.


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## MegaSteve (May 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Monaco is an ego fest. It has nothing to do with racing, all about sponsors and money. I'm not an F1 fan but was there the day after one year as we were on hoilday in the area. It is bonkers to have it as a race track and the reality is it is not a race track it is a processional track. They wont bin it but they really should.
		
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Monaco is about history, history and yet more history... 
Same for Le Mans and the Indy 500... 
Each sport has its own iconic events/venues...


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## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2019)

It is no longer about racing though and if it has lost that then what is its purpose? I understand the history element but it has to be relevant and I don't see that it is.


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## MegaSteve (May 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is no longer about racing though and if it has lost that then what is its purpose? I understand the history element but it has to be relevant and I don't see that it is.
		
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I'd suggest its wholly relevant to the sponsors... Without whom there'd be no racing... 
A bit of glamour/excess, by the Med, will always top a day out at a wet 'n windy former airfield...


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## Lord Tyrion (May 28, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I'd suggest its wholly relevant to the sponsors... Without whom there'd be no racing...
A bit of glamour/excess, by the Med, will always top a day out at a wet 'n windy former airfield...
		
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Fair enough. Do they actually turn and face the track though? At Monaco it is close to pointless, at a wet 'n windy airfield they may see some racing. It depends why they are there of course. Monaco may just be one of those, a sponsors weekend.


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## MegaSteve (May 28, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Fair enough. Do they actually turn and face the track though? .
		
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Never been fortunate to have been an invited guest at a motorsport event... Only to 'stuff' I have little/no interest in... Where, I have to admit, I've struggled to find the exit from the beer tent..

There is some good spectating to be had at Monaco for those genuinely interested in the racing...


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## Pathetic Shark (May 28, 2019)

A couple of friends of mine got into a one-upmanship series of sporting events attended a few years back.  One of the guys got himself a ticket for the Cup Final when it was down in Cardiff and phoned the other guy at kickoff to tell him where he was.  All he could hear was deafening noise which eventually subsided so he could hear "oh yeah I'm at the Monaco Grand Prix".    End of contest and bragging rights for life.


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## Cherry13 (Jun 10, 2019)

Whatâ€™s everyoneâ€™s take on the five second penalty? Harsh or justified?
My view is itâ€™s justified, Lewis has pushed him into the mistake and he should have rejoined with out getting straight back into the racing line.  If that wasnâ€™t possible, then he needs to slow down and rejoin behind at a safe place. 
It isnâ€™t racing to go off the track then just resume straight on racing line, he said himself if he didnâ€™t make that move over to the right he would have got overtaken anyway, so the move and rejoin were with the intent of slowing Lewis down.


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## Cherry13 (Jun 10, 2019)

PS MotoGP fans need not comment with views on how this never happens in there sport...


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## robinthehood (Jun 10, 2019)

I'd agree, looked to me like he knew lewis was there and made sure of the block, also moto GP need not reply.


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## GG26 (Jun 10, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Whatâ€™s everyoneâ€™s take on the five second penalty? Harsh or justified?
My view is itâ€™s justified, Lewis has pushed him into the mistake and he should have rejoined with out getting straight back into the racing line.  If that wasnâ€™t possible, then he needs to slow down and rejoin behind at a safe place.
It isnâ€™t racing to go off the track then just resume straight on racing line, he said himself if he didnâ€™t make that move over to the right he would have got overtaken anyway, so the move and rejoin were with the intent of slowing Lewis down.
		
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Thatâ€™s my take on it too


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## Piece (Jun 10, 2019)

A little bit harsh. I can see the for and against. Vettel had nowhere to go imho and blocking Hamilton was the consequence. However it wasnâ€™t Hamiltonâ€™s fault so why should he suffer. I think it was a racing incident and should have been left untouched.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 10, 2019)

I agree, the penalty was justified. Precidence was set by Verstappen doing the same thing to Raikkonen at Japan last year, so if the rule was correct for Ferrari last year it was correct for Ferrari this.


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## bobmac (Jul 1, 2019)

How can the stewards punish Vettel for accidentally running Hamilton off the track in Canada but allow Verstappen to win when he deliberately ran Leclerc off the track? And why did it take 3 hours to make the decision 
Farce.


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## Slab (Jul 1, 2019)

bobmac said:



			How can the stewards punish Vettel for accidentally running Hamilton off the track in Canada but allow Verstappen to win when he deliberately ran Leclerc off the track? And why did it take 3 hours to make the decision
Farce.
		
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Does seem excessive that a sport that measures itself on differences of hundredths of a second and 'in-race' penalties could not call a result for three hours


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 1, 2019)

bobmac said:



			How can the stewards punish Vettel for accidentally running Hamilton off the track in Canada but allow Verstappen to win when he deliberately ran Leclerc off the track? And why did it take 3 hours to make the decision
Farce.
		
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I thought Leclerc had already lost the corner so it was down to him to back out after that. Leclerc lost yesterday because of his teams actions, not Verstappens actions. If Ferrari were to give their drivers equal standing, Leclerc would have won and would be a greater threat. All the time Ferrari and cuddling Vettel like they do, Leclerc will be left and Ferrari wonâ€™t challenge.


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## jim8flog (Jul 1, 2019)

bobmac said:



			How can the stewards punish Vettel for accidentally running Hamilton off the track in Canada but allow Verstappen to win when he deliberately ran Leclerc off the track? And why did it take 3 hours to make the decision
Farce.
		
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 The decision problem came down to which car was ahead and therefore which driver should have yielded position.

The stewards have many more camera angles and sensors at their disposal than us viewers. 

I suppose it is a bit like VAR in football , they want to get it right.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

bobmac said:



			How can the stewards punish Vettel for accidentally running Hamilton off the track in Canada but allow Verstappen to win when he deliberately ran Leclerc off the track? And why did it take 3 hours to make the decision 
Farce.
		
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For me an indication how much the sport is missing Charlie Whiting...

Believe, also, the drivers if they actually mean 'let us get on with the racing'... They need to stop whinging like stuck pigs on their radios to draw attention to every incident...


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Setting aside the post race farce... I thought it was a great afternoon of racing with a background of the world seemingly turning orange...

Can we have more of the same... Pretty please...


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			For me an indication how much the sport is missing Charlie Whiting...

Believe, also, the drivers if they actually mean 'let us get on with the racing'... They need to stop whinging like stuck pigs on their radios to draw attention to every incident...
		
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Indeed. Vettel seems to be the first on the mic now claiming "foul" everytime anyone comes near the car. I thought the Leclerc/Verstappen incident was a good old fashioned racing incident although its hard to watch that and the outcome and then the Hamilton/Vettel one and see too many differences


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## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2019)

He/ Leclerc was forced off. Theres racing and there's dirty racing. There's a good write up on the BBC about the 
" overtaking" manoeuvre. If getting past someone means you have to force someone off to get by there's something seriously wrong


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## bobmac (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			He/ Leclerc was forced off. Theres racing and there's dirty racing. There's a good write up on the BBC about the
" overtaking" manoeuvre. If getting past someone means you have to force someone off to get by there's something seriously wrong
		
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I agree.
The redbull was obviously faster than the Ferrari and MV could have overtaken Leclerc under DRS without any problem.


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## Reemul (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			He/ Leclerc was forced off. Theres racing and there's dirty racing. There's a good write up on the BBC about the
" overtaking" manoeuvre. If getting past someone means you have to force someone off to get by there's something seriously wrong
		
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I disagree totally. There needs to be more gravel traps. In racing Verstappen has the inside line, if Leclerc wanted that line he could have taken it but he didn't want Verstappen to have him round the outside so he stayed wide and wanted to cut across, you do that you risk hitting the guy inside you or getting hit as even on full lock he can drift wide, we all know this is what will happen.

Now if there were gravel traps Leclerc or anyone going round the outside or holding the line has a choice, I could end up beached in the trap so now I don't have the inside line through choice do I want to be beached in the gravel, nope so i let off and try and retaking him further up the road or take a chance and live with the issue that could occur, a beaching in the trap. Now days with all these little run off areas there is no risk just a complaint to the stewards. its' pathetic.

No one wants to be overtaken obviously but they also don't like recognising that they have lost the space, the line and the place and keep it in there hoping for a decision from the stewards. It is a race isn't it so get on and race don't hope for rule infractions or stewards help blah blah, get out there and race.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I agree.
The redbull was obviously faster than the Ferrari and MV could have overtaken Leclerc under DRS without any problem.
		
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To coin a phrase...  Rubbin' is racing...


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## Cherry13 (Jul 1, 2019)

I think ultimately it should have been a penalty, but Max has probably benefited from recent coverage of stewards â€˜decidingâ€™ races. He had no need to make the move then and like that, but again he chose to do it and should have ultimately paid the price for that.
Leclerc had to make an unnatural manoeuvre to avoid a collision because of the actions of MV, that for me warrants a penalty.  I think sometimes people confuse slowing an opponent down, vs being faster than an opponent.  Be aggressive and race hard, thatâ€™s ultimately what everyone wants, but donâ€™t force your opponent off the road.  Imagine if Charles hadnâ€™t of turned to avoid the collision!! 

On the race itself, my god did the commentators over do it.  That was not a classic race, it was poor and littered with tactical and driver errors. 
Also, a driver starting second falling down to 7th and then coming back to win is not one of the greatest achievements ever.  In fact it wasnâ€™t even the best achievement of the day.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			I think ultimately it should have been a penalty, but Max has probably benefited from recent coverage of stewards â€˜decidingâ€™ races. He had no need to make the move then and like that, but again he chose to do it and should have ultimately paid the price for that.
Leclerc had to make an unnatural manoeuvre to avoid a collision because of the actions of MV, that for me warrants a penalty.  I think sometimes people confuse slowing an opponent down, vs being faster than an opponent.  Be aggressive and race hard, thatâ€™s ultimately what everyone wants, but donâ€™t force your opponent off the road.  Imagine if Charles hadnâ€™t of turned to avoid the collision!! 

On the race itself, my god did the commentators over do it.  That was not a classic race, it was poor and littered with tactical and driver errors. 
Also, a driver starting second falling down to 7th and then coming back to win is not one of the greatest achievements ever.  In fact it wasnâ€™t even the best achievement of the day.
		
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Can we have some more races 'littered with tactical and driver errors'  as I quite enjoyed yesterday's entertainment... Racing is supposed, for me, to be about a mix of skill and bravado not a game of chess conducted from the sidelines...


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 1, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			On the race itself, my god did the commentators over do it.  That was not a classic race, it was poor and littered with tactical and driver errors.
Also, a driver starting second falling down to 7th and then coming back to win is not one of the greatest achievements ever.  In fact it wasnâ€™t even the best achievement of the day.
		
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Letâ€™s start at the beginning, the track is a horrible track reminiscent of that base Scalextric track set you had before you spent a fortune buying loads of track to make it a decent layout.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			I think ultimately it should have been a penalty, but Max has probably benefited from recent coverage of stewards â€˜decidingâ€™ races. He had no need to make the move then and like that, but again he chose to do it and should have ultimately paid the price for that.
*Leclerc had to make an unnatural manoeuvre to avoid a collision because of the actions of MV*, that for me warrants a penalty.  I think sometimes people confuse slowing an opponent down, vs being faster than an opponent.  Be aggressive and race hard, thatâ€™s ultimately what everyone wants, but donâ€™t force your opponent off the road.  Imagine if Charles hadnâ€™t of turned to avoid the collision!!

On the race itself, my god did the commentators over do it.  That was not a classic race, it was poor and littered with tactical and driver errors.
Also, a driver starting second falling down to 7th and then coming back to win is not one of the greatest achievements ever.  In fact it wasnâ€™t even the best achievement of the day.
		
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This is my point, drivers going nose to nose, that I can accept all day long. But why did MV have to force Leclerc off the track.


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## ger147 (Jul 1, 2019)

bobmac said:



			How can the stewards punish Vettel for accidentally running Hamilton off the track in Canada but allow Verstappen to win when he deliberately ran Leclerc off the track? And why did it take 3 hours to make the decision 
Farce.
		
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It took 3 hrs to finalise the decision as Ferrari were lobbying like mad to have a penalty handed out when none was due.

In the end, after 3 hrs of Ferrari trying to persuade them otherwise, the stewards made the correct decision.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			This is my point, drivers going nose to nose, that I can accept all day long. But why did MV have to force Leclerc off the track.
		
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Uummm... He didn't... He asked the question concede or bang wheels... The late great Ayrton Senna asked the same question on many occasions...


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Letâ€™s start at the beginning, the track is a horrible track reminiscent of that base Scalextric track set you had before you spent a fortune buying loads of track to make it a decent layout.
		
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I love it reminds me of Brands club circuit... If all you get after spending out on extra track for your Scalextric is a Paul Ricard I'd sooner stick with basic...


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## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Uummm... He didn't... He asked the question concede or bang wheels... The late great Ayrton Senna asked the same question on many occasions...
		
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If he never forced Leclerc off at that corner. How many times at that corner previously or after did MV take that line as a normal racing line. None. The great Ayrton Senna once said " that if you do not go for a gap when racing, you are not a racing driver". That is my point. You can overtake without doing what he did. Quite frankly if MV does that again someone will take him off. But my blame is not solely with MV. The powers that be have seen these incidents more than once this year. A comment on the BBC site hits the nail on the head. Charlie Whiting would of sorted this out by now.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If he never forced Leclerc off at that corner. How many times at that corner previously or after did MV take that line as a normal racing line. None. The great Ayrton Senna once said " that if you do not go for a gap when racing, you are not a racing driver". That is my point. You can overtake without doing what he did. Quite frankly if MV does that again someone will take him off. But my blame is not solely with MV. The powers that be have seen these incidents more than once this year. A comment on the BBC site hits the nail on the head. Charlie Whiting would of sorted this out by now.
		
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I entirely agree about Charlie... He'd have taken all the drivers to one side and collectively banged their heads together... As I've already noted I believe they have contributed to the position they are currently in of having the need for stewards to get involved on too many occasions...

It was an old fashioned block pass... Exceedingly rude, not pretty but often effective..


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## ger147 (Jul 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			If he never forced Leclerc off at that corner. How many times at that corner previously or after did MV take that line as a normal racing line. None. The great Ayrton Senna once said " that if you do not go for a gap when racing, you are not a racing driver". That is my point. You can overtake without doing what he did. Quite frankly if MV does that again someone will take him off. But my blame is not solely with MV. The powers that be have seen these incidents more than once this year. A comment on the BBC site hits the nail on the head. Charlie Whiting would of sorted this out by now.
		
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The great Ayrton Senna made that statement in reply to the question why did you smash Alain Prost off the race track at the first corner and therefore win the WC.

Maybe not the best quote to use to enhance your argument...


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## Cherry13 (Jul 1, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Uummm... He didn't... He asked the question concede or bang wheels... The late great Ayrton Senna asked the same question on many occasions...
		
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Is that a question he is permitted to ask within the CURRENT rules? 
I get Senna used to ask that, but that doesnâ€™t make it right or better.


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## Cherry13 (Jul 1, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Can we have some more races 'littered with tactical and driver errors'  as I quite enjoyed yesterday's entertainment... Racing is supposed, for me, to be about a mix of skill and bravado not a game of chess conducted from the sidelines...
		
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Absolutely it is, this is why I think yday wasnâ€™t the spectacle it was made out to be.  Very few overtakes were built up after sustained pressure and skill.  Just tyre deg and different patterns in the main. 
By the by, I would much rather yday to France, I agree itâ€™s more entertaining and ultimately that is why I watch f1.  I just have a more tempered view of spectacular than the broadcasters. 
Another thing to add, ch4 coverage was pretty poor also in my opinion, and the host (Steve) is appalling.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Is that a question he is permitted to ask within the CURRENT rules? 
I get Senna used to ask that, but that doesnâ€™t make it right or better.
		
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Been a long time since I ploughed through the yellow book (probably not even that colour nowadays)... But, I am guessing the stewards will have applied the rules as written... So, assuming block passes are still OK...


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Absolutely it is, this is why I think yday wasnâ€™t the spectacle it was made out to be.  Very few overtakes were built up after sustained pressure and skill.  Just tyre deg and different patterns in the main. 
By the by, I would much rather yday to France, I agree itâ€™s more entertaining and ultimately that is why I watch f1.  I just have a more tempered view of spectacular than the broadcasters. 
Another thing to add, ch4 coverage was pretty poor also in my opinion, and the host (Steve) is appalling.
		
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With the reduced ch4 coverage I coughed up for sky this year... As long as I press mute whenever Ted is on  the mic' the commentary tends to be level headed... Is Coulthard no longer doing commentary? Usually quite good...


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## bobmac (Jul 1, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			With the reduced ch4 coverage I coughed up for sky this year... As long as I press mute whenever Ted is on  the mic' the commentary tends to be level headed... Is Coulthard no longer doing commentary? Usually quite good...
		
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Ben Edwards is very knowledgeable but thinks he's commenting for radio and won't shut up. His job is to comment, not to talk non stop telling us what's just happened, we know what's just happened, we're watching it


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Ben Edwards is very knowledgeable but thinks he's commenting for radio and won't shut up. His job is to comment, not to talk non stop telling us what's just happened, we know what's just happened, we're watching it 

Click to expand...

Ah, Ben Edwards... He can string words together... Almost certainly, though, too many...


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Is that a question he is permitted to ask within the CURRENT rules?
I get Senna used to ask that, but that doesnâ€™t make it right or better.
		
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Oh, just for the record I am not a Max fanboy nor was I a great fan of Ayrton...


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 1, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Ah, Ben Edwards... He can string words together... Almost certainly, though, too many...
		
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Murray Walker was just as bad.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Murray Walker was just as bad.
		
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His early days in broadcasting were in radio... By his own admittance he often used too many words... But, I feel, his enthusiasm for motorsport in all forms was why he was easy to warm to...


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 1, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			His early days in broadcasting were in radio... By his own admittance he often used too many words... But, I feel, his enthusiasm for motorsport in all forms was why he was easy to warm to...
		
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He was best when he had James Hunt by his side putting him straight all the time. However without Hunt he seemed to assume the mantle of F1 commentary god, plus he always came across as having a tongue longer than Shergar had willy


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He was best when he had James Hunt by his side putting him straight all the time. However without Hunt he seemed to assume the mantle of F1 commentary god, plus he always came across as having a tongue longer than Shergar had willy

Click to expand...

Loved it when he was with JH the early feistyness between them morphed into mutual respect... Having had the good fortune to have chatted with MW he is an absolute gentleman with no sign of any self importance... 

As I've noted in the past, I genuinely believe many have sought/found a career in motorsport due to his enthusiasm rubbing off on them...


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## Cherry13 (Jul 3, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Been a long time since I ploughed through the yellow book (probably not even that colour nowadays)... But, I am guessing the stewards will have applied the rules as written... So, assuming block passes are still OK...
		
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I must admit Iâ€™ve never read the rules in depth, and likely never will.  I was just being a tad facetious with regard to â€˜asking the question of banging wheelsâ€™. I love hard racing and want to see it as much as possible, but ultimately I want to see two drivers racing as fast as possible un impeded by the other, and I donâ€™t think you should be allowed to put a fellow driver in the situation where he has to choose between hitting you or going off.  Maybe Iâ€™m just soft or idealistic, but the purpose of the sport is to find the fastest driver not the bravest or most reckless. 

As an aside, itâ€™s good to get involved in a decent debate and not just a slanging match about whos right or whos wrong, and how bad the sport is.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 3, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			I must admit Iâ€™ve never read the rules in depth, and likely never will.  I was just being a tad facetious with regard to â€˜asking the question of banging wheelsâ€™. I love hard racing and want to see it as much as possible, but ultimately I want to see two drivers racing as fast as possible un impeded by the other, and I donâ€™t think you should be allowed to put a fellow driver in the situation where he has to choose between hitting you or going off.  Maybe Iâ€™m just soft or idealistic, but the purpose of the sport is to find the fastest driver not the bravest or most reckless. 

As an aside, itâ€™s good to get involved in a decent debate and not just a slanging match about whos right or whos wrong, and how bad the sport is.
		
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Being a bit old school measure of cojones should play some part in victory... Way back in the day when Woodcote was an open corner following on from Farm straight... We'd, on practice days, position ourselves on the outside of the corner straining our ears listening for anyone the was able to take the corner, on full chat, without a confidence lift of the throttle... Generally reckoned it was the late great Ronnie Peterson who was the first to achieve it in a F1 car... One of my motorsport I was there days ðŸ‘... Proper cojones to do that...


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## Slime (Jul 13, 2019)

I watched an interview this morning with Jackie Stewart, who won the British GP in 1969.
In that race he went head to head with Jochen Rindt until a few laps from the end.
During that race Stewart recalled that he and Rindt swapped places 32 times ................................. that's 32 overtakes at the head of one race.
Back then, racing was proper racing.


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## ger147 (Jul 14, 2019)

Another win for Hamilton and another meltdown from Vettel, smashing into the back of Verstappen.

Looking very much like Lewis is well on the way to wrapping up world title no.6.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2019)

Shocking from Vettel. He looks a loose cannon in every race at the moment


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## Slime (Jul 14, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Another win for Hamilton and another meltdown from Vettel, smashing into the back of Verstappen.

Looking very much like Lewis is well on the way to wrapping up world title no.6.
		
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In the fastest car on the grid.


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## robinthehood (Jul 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			In the fastest car on the grid.
		
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That award goes to ricciardo Ã¬n the Renault.  Hamilton was not even top 10.


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## robinthehood (Jul 27, 2019)

Oof another horror show from Ferrari! Same old for the mercs.


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## robinthehood (Jul 28, 2019)

What a difference a day makes ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
An epic German grand prix and yet another cracking race.


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## Slime (Jul 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			What a difference a day makes ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
An epic German grand prix and yet another cracking race.
		
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Not seen it yet.
Was it because of the weather? I heard it was pretty bad.


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## rulefan (Jul 28, 2019)

Very much so. Fred Karno's


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## robinthehood (Jul 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			Not seen it yet.
Was it because of the weather? I heard it was pretty bad.
		
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Yes made it an eventful race.


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## Slime (Jul 28, 2019)

Just seen the highlights and the weather made the race.
They should introduce sprinkler systems on all the tracks which go off at random intervals, that'd make it more fun to watch!


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## Cherry13 (Jul 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Yes made it an eventful race.
		
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Perfect combination of interchangeable weather and a good track to match. 

A lot of individual errors due to lack of wet weather driving this season and probably the worst performance in 2/3 years by Hamilton.


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## ger147 (Jul 28, 2019)

Slime said:



			Just seen the highlights and the weather made the race.
They should introduce sprinkler systems on all the tracks which go off at random intervals, that'd make it more fun to watch! 

Click to expand...

Bernie E actually wanted to do that a few years back, the teams weren't so keen funnily enough.


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## robinthehood (Jul 28, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Perfect combination of interchangeable weather and a good track to match.

A lot of individual errors due to lack of wet weather driving this season and probably the worst performance in 2/3 years by Hamilton.
		
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And he still ended up extending his lead over botas!


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## ger147 (Jul 28, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			And he still ended up extending his lead over botas!
		
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He didn't, Hamilton didn't score any points today.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2019)

ger147 said:



			He didn't, Hamilton didn't score any points today.
		
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He scored 2 for coming 9th


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## ger147 (Jul 28, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He scored 2 for coming 9th
		
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He was classified 11th after his 2nd time penalty, no points.


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## Cherry13 (Jul 28, 2019)

ger147 said:



			He didn't, Hamilton didn't score any points today.
		
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Heâ€™s jumped up to 9th, I didnâ€™t quite catch why though. Assuming a team penalty.


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## Cherry13 (Jul 28, 2019)

ger147 said:



			He was classified 11th after his 2nd time penalty, no points.
		
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Alfa demoted for data errors just seen on planetf1


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2019)

ger147 said:



			He was classified 11th after his 2nd time penalty, no points.
		
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He was classified 9th and given 2 points after Alfa were penalised for driving aids


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## robinthehood (Jul 28, 2019)

ger147 said:



			He was classified 11th after his 2nd time penalty, no points.
		
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At this point i'd be looking up why we think he scored 2 points 

Of course it could change again I guess if Alfa successfully appeal


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## ger147 (Jul 28, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Heâ€™s jumped up to 9th, I didnâ€™t quite catch why though. Assuming a team penalty.
		
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Apologies, my mistake. Didn't see the news re. The Alfas.


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## robinthehood (Jul 28, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			Alfa demoted for data errors just seen on planetf1
		
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Even Kubica scores a point now! 

I think essentially the Alfas jumped the start


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## Lincoln Quaker (Jul 28, 2019)

Mercedes pit stop was comedy gold.

Just watched the highlights in between watching Le Tour, Lewis really did have a bad day today.


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## ger147 (Jul 28, 2019)

Deffo a bad day at the office for Hamilton but I don't think it will make any difference come the end of the season.

It's a bit of a shame as Leclerc looks like he could give him a serious run for his money this year but between bad luck and a few mistakes, it hasn't come to anything. Would be great if Verstappen and Leclerc could get closer to Hamilton week in week out and have a right good battle between the 3.


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## Beedee (Jul 29, 2019)

Gutted for Russell.  He's thrashed Kubica all season, and then in the one race when everyone jumps off the track, and a late safety car to compress the field, Kubica is just ahead of him.


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## CliveW (Jul 29, 2019)

I'm just back from Silverstone having been at the Silverstone Classic Weekend. Great racing from all eras of the sport and access all areas including pits!!!


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## ger147 (Aug 3, 2019)

Fantastic final qualifying lap from Verstappen to get his first ever pole position.

Will be fun tomorrow going into Turn 1 should anyone get alongside and try to pass him...


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## MegaSteve (Aug 3, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Fantastic final qualifying lap from Verstappen to get his first ever pole position.

Will be fun tomorrow going into Turn 1 should anyone get alongside and try to pass him...
		
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Not a great track for overtaking opportunities... So, hoping for a bit of rain... For me, best performance of the day was from George Russell...


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## ger147 (Aug 3, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Not a great track for overtaking opportunities... So, hoping for a bit of rain... For me, best performance of the day was from George Russell...
		
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Russell was very unlucky not to make it into Q2, brilliant lap.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 3, 2019)

Rain would make it very interesting. I wonder if that's going to be Hamilton's best chance via a great pit stop to get the lead.


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## ger147 (Aug 4, 2019)

Excellent call from Mercedes re. Hamilton's extra pit stop to pinch the win from Verstappen.

Hamilton's 7th win in Hungary.


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## GG26 (Aug 4, 2019)

Great watching Hamilton hunt down Verstappen over the last 20 laps, but the two of them were over a minute clear of the rest of the field.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 5, 2019)

And, all without the need of any 'wet stuff'...

Although I was never a Schumi fan... Best result, of the day, was son Mick winning the F2 race... Making for a very proud looking Mum...


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## Cherry13 (Sep 2, 2019)

So back after the break, and a strong Belgian GP to get us going again.  Ferrari looked strong and Leclerc deserved to win, although they should have pitted vettel sooner. 
Lewis just nicely ticking down the races to collect the 6th title.  Gutted for Norris but i think heâ€™s got many years in the sport and a potential race winner. 

Tragic news on the Saturday, and puts into perspective how dangerous it is.  I havenâ€™t seen the incident and will try to avoid it.  But by reading all accounts it was obvious from the outset it was bad.  Hope the other racer involved makes a full and speedy recovery.


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## ger147 (Sep 2, 2019)

The crash was horrific. F2 cars are flat out thru there at 170mph, he had very little chance of survival being hit like he was at that speed. Small crumb of comfort is the 2nd driver survived and is likely to recover.


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## bobmac (Sep 8, 2019)

What do we think of Q3 yesterday?
Is it something the FIA should sort out so it doesn't happen again or should they leave it alone?


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## Smiffy (Sep 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			What do we think of Q3 yesterday?
Is it something the FIA should sort out so it doesn't happen again or should they leave it alone?
		
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It was interesting, to say the least lol!!
I blame Hulkenberg and Stroll myself.


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## bobmac (Sep 8, 2019)

Smiffy said:



			It was interesting, to say the least lol!!
I blame Hulkenberg and Stroll myself.
		
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I think the teams might go out 30 secs earlier next time.


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## jim8flog (Sep 8, 2019)

Having just checked a stewards decision.

How come Vettel did not have his time deleted for exceeding track limits in Q3 when Albon had his deleted in Q2 on exactly the same part of the track?


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 8, 2019)

jim8flog said:



			Having just checked a stewards decision.

How come Vettel did not have his time deleted for exceeding track limits in Q3 when Albon had his deleted in Q2 on exactly the same part of the track?
		
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Because he's driving a Ferrari in Italy?


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## MegaSteve (Sep 9, 2019)

Top drive from Charles ðŸ‘... Mercedes threw everything they had at him, short of the kitchen sink, and he resisted all challenges... The finger is a busted flush and any hopes Max had for future world domination have evaporated... 

I truly believe Lewis is relishing the challenge next year could potentially become...


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## bobmac (Sep 9, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Top drive from Charles ðŸ‘... Mercedes threw everything they had at him, short of the kitchen sink, and he resisted all challenges... The finger is a busted flush and any hopes Max had for future world domination have evaporated...

I truly believe Lewis is relishing the challenge next year could potentially become...
		
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I agree, but he was fortunate the stewards were in a good mood.


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## ger147 (Sep 9, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I agree, but he was fortunate the stewards were in a good mood.
		
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Not so much the stewards being in a good mood, more a case of driving a Ferrari at the Italian GP. Any driver at any other race would have incurred some sort of penalty from the stewards for 1 of the 2 questionable manoeuvres he pulled. Still a great drive but just a bit over the line on a few occasions for me.


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## MegaSteve (Sep 9, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Not so much the stewards being in a good mood, more a case of driving a Ferrari at the Italian GP. Any driver at any other race would have incurred some sort of penalty from the stewards for 1 of the 2 questionable manoeuvres he pulled. Still a great drive but just a bit over the line on a few occasions for me.
		
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To be fair to the stewards the drivers have previously requested to be allowed to get on with racing with minimal interference... The 'errors' of Vettel and Stroll were correctly punished and Lewis wasn't overly upset (in the post race interview) with Charles tactics...


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## Beedee (Sep 9, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			To be fair to the stewards the drivers have previously requested to be allowed to get on with racing with minimal interference... The 'errors' of Vettel and Stroll were correctly punished and Lewis wasn't overly upset (in the post race interview) with Charles tactics...
		
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Can't agree about the stewards.  Charles was on a black and white warning flag.  Makes a mistake into a corner, made the decision to cut the corner in order to retain the lead, and gets away with it because the FIA/stewards bottled it.

I wonder how much Ferrari are regretting some of the earlier decisions to hamstring Le Clerc in favour of Vettel?


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## bobmac (Sep 20, 2019)

After the last GP Leclerc was asked about squeezing Hamilton off the track.
His answer basically was
''Verstappen did it to me and wasn't done for it so I thought I'd try it and it worked''
When Hamilton heard that he replied
''I may have to adjust my driving accordingly''
Singapore is going to be fun


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## robinthehood (Sep 20, 2019)

bobmac said:



			After the last GP Leclerc was asked about squeezing Hamilton off the track.
His answer basically was
''Verstappen did it to me and wasn't done for it so I thought I'd try it and it worked''
When Hamilton heard that he replied
''I may have to adjust my driving accordingly''
Singapore is going to be fun  

Click to expand...

They've certainly set a precedent.  They are out now in fp1


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## robinthehood (Sep 30, 2019)

Another Ferrari implosion  and vettel up to his old tricks. There is a piece on planet f1 this morning about how leclerc could well have been  in the championship fight had Ferrari not favoured vettel so much.


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## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

The way everything is falling for Hamilton they may as well give him the championship now.


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## Cherry13 (Sep 30, 2019)

An alryt race, on a track that I personally donâ€™t enjoy. A few talking points though which could get into. 

LH - I thought he was lucky not to drop down to 4th at start, Sainz got ahead but then wasnâ€™t aggressive enough, probably didnâ€™t want to risk a collision but he comfortably could have squeezed Hamilton a bit and made him brake earlier.  After that Lewis was always racing for maximum points and the win landed on him rather than taking it.  Donâ€™t think LeClerc would have caught him even if got past bottas at end.

Vettel/Ferrari/LeClerc - I think vettel was right, he would have took the place even with out the order, the order existed entirely to stifle LH. I think Ferrari have then kept SV out for an extra lap 4 in total to ensure CL gets undercut, but he would have then had a chance towards end of race to go back.  Ferrari are a bit of a mess, theyâ€™ve backed the wrong driver and likely will either need to change policy or ditch SV next year, but I donâ€™t think they are set up to be a 2 driver team like others so the latter may be only option. 
As it happens, I donâ€™t think LeClerc would be that much better off anyway.  Heâ€™s been on a steep learning curve but adapted well. He would have made too many mistakes at start of season if top driver.  (All my opinion and guess work of course)

The title is over now.  VBs job will be to ensure that Lewis gets it. No racing or fighting for position, he had his chance at start of season, now heâ€™ll be expected to play the good wingman.


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## Midnight (Sep 30, 2019)

To any one who understands F1, I was listening to one of the drivers saying on the radio to his team 'give me all we have got'. 
Is it the driver who controls the power or is that done by the team? As said don't follow F1 but was just wondering? 

Cheers 

Midnight...


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## robinthehood (Sep 30, 2019)

Used to be the drivers , deffo at Merc.  But these days the team do it after Lewis and Rosberg turned on qualy mode without permission


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 30, 2019)

Ferrari have no one to blame but themselves. For years they have orchestrated their no1 driver the win over his team mate, and now the other teams are doing likewise. SV is a spent force, and someone who whilst may be good isnâ€™t in the same league as LH with his petulance and anger issues. Ferrari will have to re-evaluate how they operate next year or give SV the push if they want to challenge Merc and LH.
I did wonder yesterday whether someone at Ferrari HQ quietly hit the kill switch on SVâ€™s car so he failed to finish. They deliberately kept him out longer than they should have, and it wouldnâ€™t surprise  me if they had deliberately finished his race to show him who is boss. 
I must say I donâ€™t like Sochi as a track.


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## Cherry13 (Sep 30, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Used to be the drivers , deffo at Merc.  But these days the team do it after Lewis and Rosberg turned on qualy mode without permission
		
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I thought this was outlawed? Are they not just asking for permission, then doing it themselves. I donâ€™t know for definite, but I do know it used to be outlawed to do.


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## robinthehood (Sep 30, 2019)

Cherry13 said:



			I thought this was outlawed? Are they not just asking for permission, then doing it themselves. I donâ€™t know for definite, but I do know it used to be outlawed to do.
		
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I'm not 100 sure. You're right that they do change stuff as they drive.


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## jim8flog (Sep 30, 2019)

Midnight said:



			To any one who understands F1, I was listening to one of the drivers saying on the radio to his team 'give me all we have got'.
Is it the driver who controls the power or is that done by the team? As said don't follow F1 but was just wondering?

Cheers

Midnight...
		
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Most of the teams have various driver set engine modes available. The most power is what is known as qualfiying mode, only normally used for the final qualifying session and occasionally to the very end of a race. The team usually give permission for the driver to use this mode when appropriate.

They are limited to the number of engines they are allowed to have in a season so the power is limited to preserve engine life.


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## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

jim8flog said:



			Most of the teams have various driver set engine modes available. The most power is what is known as qualfiying mode, only normally used for the final qualifying session and occasionally to the very end of a race. The team usually give permission for the driver to use this mode when appropriate.

*They are limited to the number of engines they are allowed to have in a season *so the power is limited to preserve engine life.
		
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They should also be limited to the number of drivers they use during a season, and that limit should be set at just one.
As long as there are two drivers, results can be manipulated and that's not proper racing.
Either just one driver or no drivers' championship.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			They should also be limited to the number of drivers they use during a season, and that limit should be set at just one.
As long as there are two drivers, results can be manipulated and that's not proper racing.
Either just one driver or no drivers' championship.
		
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Out of interest, how long has their been two men teams in the constructors championship. Clearly it s a prestigious prize with a historical background but has it always had two drivers per team. I don't think we'll see a change as F1 want the spectacle of 20-22 man grids and we clearly can't have that many teams


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## Slime (Sep 30, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Out of interest, *how long has their been two men teams in the constructors championship.* Clearly it s a prestigious prize with a historical background but has it always had two drivers per team. I don't think we'll see a change as F1 want the spectacle of 20-22 man grids and we clearly can't have that many teams
		
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No idea, but, back in the day, they had no team orders barked at them during the race as there was no comms other than the pit boards.
Ahhh, those were the days of proper motor racing.


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## ger147 (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			No idea, but, back in the day, they had no team orders barked at them during the race as there was no comms other than the pit boards.
Ahhh, those were the days of proper motor racing.
		
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You mean like when Fangio was driving a Ferrari?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			No idea, but, back in the day, they had no team orders barked at them during the race as there was no comms other than the pit boards.
Ahhh, those were the days of proper motor racing.
		
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I agree. I thought they had clamped down on team orders? I think radios have a place (if only to get safety messages out to the driver or back to the pits) but there has to be a way to monitor all radio traffic and act upon any team giving orders (but then they'll only use code words). Sadly I can't see a simple way to change it now the genie is out the bottle


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## Cherry13 (Sep 30, 2019)

Slime said:



			No idea, but, back in the day, they had no team orders barked at them during the race as there was no comms other than the pit boards.
Ahhh, those were the days of proper motor racing.
		
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1985 was the last time a team ran with 3 cars.  I believe Renault added a french driver at the french gp for obvious reasons. Before that it happened as hoc, but itâ€™s primarily a cost issue. Up until early 2000s(?) teams had 3 cars, a spare in the garage. 
Team orders and preferential treatment has always existed.  Fangio was given his team mates car who he was directly competing against!

Whatâ€™s often overlooked is that the drivers championship is (technically) worth Â£0.  You donâ€™t get any extra money for winning the drivers championship just the prestige (sponsors etc). So ultimately everything the team is looking out for is to ensure that the team score maximum points.


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## robinthehood (Oct 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree. I thought they had clamped down on team orders? I think radios have a place (if only to get safety messages out to the driver or back to the pits) but there has to be a way to monitor all radio traffic and act upon any team giving orders (but then they'll only use code words). Sadly I can't see a simple way to change it now the genie is out the bottle
		
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Maybe watch the sport as opposed to making Ill informed comments.
Team orders are allowed,  it's getting vettel to listen that's the problem ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 1, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Maybe watch the sport as opposed to making Ill informed comments.
Team orders are allowed,  it's getting vettel to listen that's the problem ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
		
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Lovely polite reply. I find the sport in general boring these days with a predominantly two team race at each circuit, barring any incidents and places like Monaco are a bore fest as overtaking is so hard. I merely asked, as I seemed to remember an incident a few seasons back where a driver was allowed to pass a teammate and it created a furore. Clearly nothing happened


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## robinthehood (Oct 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lovely polite reply. I find the sport in general boring these days with a predominantly two team race at each circuit, barring any incidents and places like Monaco are a bore fest as overtaking is so hard. I merely asked, as I seemed to remember an incident a few seasons back where a driver was allowed to pass a teammate and it created a furore. Clearly nothing happened
		
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the point is there are boring races and excellent races, like there are crappy football matches and really good ones.
Sure we'd like to see more wheel to wheel action and F1 hope to make it more exciting in the future.
But the 'its boring' line that gets trotted out is just lazy and not knowing about team orders clearly shows you dont watch it and its just a post for posts sake.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 1, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			the point is there are boring races and excellent races, like there are crappy football matches and really good ones.
Sure we'd like to see more wheel to wheel action and F1 hope to make it more exciting in the future.
But the 'its boring' line that gets trotted out is just lazy and not knowing about team orders clearly shows you dont watch it and its just a post for posts sake.
		
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Sadly though F1 is too prosessional with the cars too hard to follow and overtake, and I say that as an avid F1 fan.
I would like to see a big reduction in the complex wings and aero elements, reduce tyre choice to hard, soft or wet and do away with mandatory tyre changing. 
I donâ€™t know whether budget caps will ever really work, but the Ferrari bias to the monies given out has to stop and be more evenly distributed. I would also abolish drivers being able to race just because of their financial backing, regardless of whether they have a super license or not. Drivers should be there on ability and performance level, not budget they bring to the team (ala Stroll etc)


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## robinthehood (Oct 1, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Sadly though F1 is too prosessional with the cars too hard to follow and overtake, and I say that as an avid F1 fan.
I would like to see a big reduction in the complex wings and aero elements, reduce tyre choice to hard, soft or wet and do away with mandatory tyre changing.
I donâ€™t know whether budget caps will ever really work, but the Ferrari bias to the monies given out has to stop and be more evenly distributed. I would also abolish drivers being able to race just because of their financial backing, regardless of whether they have a super license or not. Drivers should be there on ability and performance level, not budget they bring to the team (ala Stroll etc)
		
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Thats all supposed to be happening in 2021, with big changes to wheel size, more use of ground effect in producing downforce amongst other things. it will be interesting to see how it shapes up.


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## jim8flog (Oct 1, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			do away with mandatory tyre changing.
)
		
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Without mandatory tyre changing they might as well just run qualifying at some tracks and announce the winner from that, so much of the overtaking is done ' in the pit lane' these days that F1 would have little to offer at tracks like Monaco without it.

Make 2 changes mandatory.


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## Cherry13 (Oct 1, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Thats all supposed to be happening in 2021, with big changes to wheel size, more use of ground effect in producing downforce amongst other things. it will be interesting to see how it shapes up.
		
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Testing for the new cars is apparently going well, although they believed this in 2008, and the issues still existed after.  They believe theyâ€™ve got the wake down too 5/10% which is a massive reduction. 

Itâ€™ll be interesting to see what areas they leave open to development, wing size and shape (curves) will be set, but they may leave scope for areas to be developed on the sides of the wings. Once the teams start to do this that % wake might increase as ultimately thatâ€™s better for the team.  Makes it harder for someone to follow them. 

I think realistically theyâ€™ll never get below 0.250 of a second advantage for a car to be able to pass someone in front.  The tracks just arenâ€™t set up for side by side racing like nascar/touring etc


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## Cherry13 (Oct 1, 2019)

jim8flog said:



			Without mandatory tyre changing they might as well just run qualifying at some tracks and announce the winner from that, so much of the overtaking is done ' in the pit lane' these days that F1 would have little to offer at tracks like Monaco without it.

Make 2 changes mandatory.
		
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There is a school of thought to go either way on this.  I think youâ€™d need to reduce the race length, but similar to MotoGP you have two options. An extreme hard tyre which comes to peak late in the race.  Or a softer tyre which peaks early on.  Ultimately overtaking happens in f1 on track when people are on conflicting strategies, therefore this could create that where an individual has tyres â€˜going awayâ€™ and another they are â€˜coming to himâ€™. It would make for some interesting strategic decisions before a race and much more splitting of team strategy.

I agree tracks like Monaco would be pants, but ultimately they are anyway.

From a personal view I think they need to go the way you suggest and enforce 2 changes. So 3 sets during a race.


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## robinthehood (Oct 1, 2019)

Pitstops are very much a part of F1.  I don't see that changing any time.

Worth a read

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...or-racings-future.1Yaz5mXGa4RqEzyCt8meC2.html


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## Cherry13 (Oct 1, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Pitstops are very much a part of F1.  I don't see that changing any time.

Worth a read

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...or-racings-future.1Yaz5mXGa4RqEzyCt8meC2.html

Click to expand...

Yeh read that, and very good. I agree with the aesthetics, I actually think itâ€™s quite important. In particular to a team like Ferrari. The step in the nose was the recent low point on this front.


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## GB72 (Oct 1, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Sadly though F1 is too prosessional with the cars too hard to follow and overtake, and I say that as an avid F1 fan.
I would like to see a big reduction in the complex wings and aero elements, reduce tyre choice to hard, soft or wet and do away with mandatory tyre changing.
I donâ€™t know whether budget caps will ever really work, but the Ferrari bias to the monies given out has to stop and be more evenly distributed. I would also abolish drivers being able to race just because of their financial backing, regardless of whether they have a super license or not. Drivers should be there on ability and performance level, not budget they bring to the team (ala Stroll etc)
		
Click to expand...

I cannot see budget caps working. Teams like Ferrari have F1 as a core marketing tool for their business and to not be able to spend what they like so as they remain competitive each year would detract from their reason to be there. How would it look these days to a prospective supercar purchaser to see Ferrari or Mercedes regularly beaten by a Ford or Renault engine.


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## robinthehood (Oct 1, 2019)

GB72 said:



			I cannot see budget caps working. Teams like Ferrari have F1 as a core marketing tool for their business and to not be able to spend what they like so as they remain competitive each year would detract from their reason to be there. How would it look these days to a prospective supercar purchaser to see Ferrari or Mercedes regularly beaten by a Ford or Renault engine.
		
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It wasn't that long ago they were getting trounced by a Renault engine.  It is important for Ferrari and F1 for them to be competitive.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 1, 2019)

GB72 said:



			I cannot see budget caps working. Teams like Ferrari have F1 as a core marketing tool for their business and to not be able to spend what they like so as they remain competitive each year would detract from their reason to be there. How would it look these days to a prospective supercar purchaser to see Ferrari or Mercedes regularly beaten by a Ford or Renault engine.
		
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Ferrai have it enshrined they get the largest amount of money as they "are F1". The Ford Cosworth engine had a long run with many cars, Renault and Honda also with Williams (along with the Ford), so I don't think you can diss them just because they aren't the main "supercar brands"


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## GB72 (Oct 1, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Ferrai have it enshrined they get the largest amount of money as they "are F1". The Ford Cosworth engine had a long run with many cars, Renault and Honda also with Williams (along with the Ford), so I don't think you can diss them just because they aren't the main "supercar brands"
		
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Apologies, not dissing them just thought that it would dent the promotional value that Ferrari etc get from F1 if limited budgets saw their engines being regularly beaten by what are seen more as everyday car manufacturers.


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## Beedee (Oct 2, 2019)

They're trying a dry run of the cost cap next year, but with no penalties for breaking the rules and a bunch of exceptions.  The limit is $175m, and the exceptions include driver's pay (plus costs for driver's entourage), chief exec pay, and engine development costs.


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## bobmac (Oct 2, 2019)

What do people think about the reverse grid idea, fastest qualifires out last?
I think it might work if 75% of the points were awarded for qualifying and 25% for the race or 50% 50%


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## Beedee (Oct 2, 2019)

It can't be done on qualifying time or else every lap in qualifying will last for days.  Maybe on championship position or results of the last race, but then there's no point in having qualifying and the F1 circus loses the whole point of Saturday.

Maybe a sprint race of 10 laps with a reversed grid from the previous race, and worth a few points, to set the grid for the main race, and lots of points.


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## bobmac (Oct 3, 2019)

Beedee said:



			It can't be done on qualifying time or else every lap in qualifying will last for days.
		
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Why would it, if the fastest qualifier got, say 15 points, 2nd 12 points etc


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## Beedee (Oct 3, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Why would it, if the fastest qualifier got, say 15 points, 2nd 12 points etc
		
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So you think the top teams will want to trade a chance of 25 points for a race win, for the chance of 15 for qualifying, but then virtually no chance of the win in the big race?

In all rule changes in F1 you have to think how can this rule be subverted and stretched, and what the unintended consequences will be.  F1 is built around stretching every loophole to the absolute limit.  You can't think of how good the best case will be with the rule change; it's limiting how bad the worst case will be.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 3, 2019)

bobmac said:



			What do people think about the reverse grid idea, fastest qualifires out last?
		
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I think they have something similar in touring cars but the real difference there is the ability to pass and so the good drivers can still get through the field. I can't see it working at San Marino etc where passing is so hard anyway. Decent idea but until there is a level playing field F1 will be all about "brand Ferrari" and Mercedes dominating. Hard to see how/who is going to change the current status quo. The only silver lining is Leclerc who seems a quick and talented racer and so get him in a good, reliable car going head to head with Hamilton and next season could be a good old fashioned showdown


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## bobmac (Oct 3, 2019)

Beedee said:



			So you think the top teams will want to trade a chance of 25 points for a race win, for the chance of 15 for qualifying, but then virtually no chance of the win in the big race?
		
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Bt you wouldn't get 25 points for the win as I said in post no. 234  




HomerJSimpson said:



			I think they have something similar in touring cars but the real difference there is the ability to pass and so the good drivers can still get through the field.
		
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How many times have you seen a top 6 car start at the back of the field/pit lane and still end up in the points?


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## robinthehood (Oct 3, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Bt you wouldn't get 25 points for the win as I said in post no. 234




How many times have you seen a top 6 car start at the back of the field/pit lane and still end up in the points?
		
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Homer doesn't watch F1, he just makes tired lazy comments...
Otherwise hed know that Alborn started from the pits in Russia  and finished 5th and made some awesome moved along the way.


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## ger147 (Oct 3, 2019)

bobmac said:



			What do people think about the reverse grid idea, fastest qualifires out last?
I think it might work if 75% of the points were awarded for qualifying and 25% for the race or 50% 50%
		
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Not for me and not sure the teams will go for it either, I certainly hope not.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 3, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Homer doesn't watch F1, he just makes tired lazy comments...
Otherwise hed know that Alborn started from the pits in Russia  and finished 5th and made some awesome moved along the way.
		
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And some people just make tired stereotypical snidey comments (suggest you read the GM forum rules regarding posting opinions as you seem to constantly have issues with my posts - that or the ignore button is what you need). If you read the post properly I simply said some tracks like San Marino (and there are others) where it is so hard to pass, making it virtually impossible for a reverse grid to work and be fair. As has been mentioned elsewhere, I do watch the odd race (usually qualifying and the opening laps) but find no interest in watching races where it become processional.


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## ger147 (Oct 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And some people just make tired stereotypical snidey comments. If you read the post properly I simply said some tracks like San Marino (and there are others) where it is so hard to pass, making it virtually impossible for a reverse grid to work and be fair
		
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Using San Marino is a poor example, hasn't been an F1 grand prix there since 2006.


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## robinthehood (Oct 3, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Using San Marino is a poor example, hasn't been an F1 grand prix there since 2006.
		
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I didn't have the heart to tell him ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚


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## bobmac (Oct 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And some people just make tired stereotypical snidey comments (suggest you read the GM forum rules regarding posting opinions as you seem to constantly have issues with my posts - that or the ignore button is what you need). If you read the post properly I simply said some tracks like San Marino (and there are others)* where it is so hard to pass,* making it virtually impossible for a reverse grid to work and be fair. As has been mentioned elsewhere, I do watch the odd race (usually qualifying and the opening laps) but find no interest in watching races where it become processional.
		
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But that is when slower cars are trying to pass faster cars. This idea would be the opposite with the faster cars behind


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 3, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Using San Marino is a poor example, hasn't been an F1 grand prix there since 2006.
		
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I meant Monaco. Same principle.


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## ger147 (Oct 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I meant Monaco. Same principle.
		
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Maybe you should try taking the same care posting as you suggest to others reading your posts, then you wouldn't look like a choob...


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## robinthehood (Oct 3, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And some people just make tired stereotypical snidey comments (suggest you read the GM forum rules regarding posting opinions as you seem to constantly have issues with my posts - that or the ignore button is what you need). If you read the post properly I simply said some tracks like San Marino (and there are others) where it is so hard to pass, making it virtually impossible for a reverse grid to work and be fair. As has been mentioned elsewhere, I do watch the odd race (usually qualifying and the opening laps) but find no interest in watching races where it become processional.
		
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I don't have a problem with you,  i have a problem with factually inaccurate posts. You quite clearly know very little about F1 as it Ã¬s today and that's evident by your references to team orders, the san Marino gp, racers starting from last etc.


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## robinthehood (Oct 3, 2019)

bobmac said:



			But that is when slower cars are trying to pass faster cars. This idea would be the opposite with the faster cars behind
		
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Hamilton made some comments on planetf1 that it may be time to try something at the most boring races like Monaco and Singapore.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/hamilton-open-to-format-change-at-boring-f1-races/


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## bobmac (Oct 25, 2019)

Ch4 doing their best to send F1 the same way as the BEEB did with golf.
Saturday night 10.45-12.15am and Sunday night 11-1am highlights when a British driver could be a 6 time world champion.


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## ger147 (Oct 25, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Ch4 doing their best to send F1 the same way as the BEEB did with golf.
Saturday night 10.45-12.15am and Sunday night 11-1am highlights when a British driver could be a 6 time world champion.



Click to expand...

The race is in Mexico.  It's difficult to show highlights of a race before it's taken place.

I believe the race starts about 7pm local UK time so won't be completed till around 9pm UK time.


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## robinthehood (Oct 25, 2019)

Race doesn't start till 1900 UK time . Be 2200 by the time they've done interviews etc.  So 2245 is pretty reasonable for a highlights show.


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## bobmac (Oct 25, 2019)

My mistake.
I saw this and didn't think

https://www.tvguide.co.uk/m-detail/3101937/15377710/formula-1


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## Slime (Oct 25, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Ch4 doing their best to send F1 the same way as the BEEB did with golf.
Saturday night 10.45-12.15am and Sunday night 11-1am highlights when *a British driver could be a 6 time world champion.*



Click to expand...

It's only Lewis Hamilton.


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## USER1999 (Oct 26, 2019)

Slime said:



			It's only Lewis Hamilton.  

Click to expand...

If he gets 6, he is way up in the stratosphere of F1 greats.


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## robinthehood (Oct 26, 2019)

Silly verstappen,  talks himself off of pole..
https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappen-stripped-of-pole-drops-three-places/

Oof


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## ger147 (Oct 26, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Silly verstappen,  talks himself off of pole..
https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappen-stripped-of-pole-drops-three-places/

Oof
		
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Oh dear...


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## SaintHacker (Oct 27, 2019)

Deserved penalty. Surely the FIA cold see the telemetery anyway showing that he didn't lift so he's got no defence. An insanely talented driver but still has a lot of growing up to do and needs to realise that the rules also apply to him.


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## bobmac (Oct 27, 2019)

My only disappointment was that I didn't see Maxs' face when he was told the bad news


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## robinthehood (Oct 28, 2019)

A pretty dull race in the end. Decided on strategy rather than on the track. 
This track really highlighted the cars inability to run close , when they did they soon started to overheat and had to drop back.


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## robinthehood (Nov 3, 2019)

Arise sir Lewis Hamilton

6 times world champion!


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## USER1999 (Nov 3, 2019)

Fantastic achievement.


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2019)

Great drive from Lewis and from Bottas, perfect weekend for Mercedes.


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## Piece (Nov 3, 2019)

Brilliant effort and amazingly consistent. An underrated and unappreciated UK sportsman.


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## ger147 (Nov 17, 2019)

Verstappen the class of the field today. Pole position and the victory, having to pass Hamilton twice on track on the way to the win.

Hamilton having a mini meltdown after a dodgy strategy call near the end by Mercedes but the funniest moment was Vettel's total meltdown after Leclerc mugged him into Turn 1. Red mist moment for Vettel who proceeded to smash both of them off the road. There must be a few senior folks at Ferrari seriously looking around for Vettel's replacement. Would be surprised if next season isn't his last in a Prancing Horse.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 17, 2019)

One of the best races of the season. Wonder if the Ferrari camp has calmed down. I wonder if Vettel's time is nearly up there? Seems to be lacking something and only fifth in the standings.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			One of the best races of the season. Wonder if the Ferrari camp has calmed down. I wonder if Vettel's time is nearly up there? Seems to be lacking something and only fifth in the standings.
		
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Vettelâ€™s behaviour has changed after world championship no.2. 
I wonder really whatâ€™s going on.


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## robinthehood (Nov 17, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			Vettelâ€™s behaviour has changed after world championship no.2.
I wonder really whatâ€™s going on.
		
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How many mess ups can Ferrari have! Crazy scenes


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## harpo_72 (Nov 17, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			How many mess ups can Ferrari have! Crazy scenes
		
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They always had a pecking order. No need to overtly state it on the radio. But times change, might be better for Vettel to find some other race series and not ruin his stats in F1 further.


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## Hobbit (Nov 18, 2019)

Both Ferrari drivers ordered back to the team HQ in Italy, following their crash yesterday. Wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall for that meeting.


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## ger147 (Nov 18, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Both Ferrari drivers ordered back to the team HQ in Italy, following their crash yesterday. Wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall for that meeting.
		
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They of course have to appear even handed in public, hence both drivers being called in, but it will in fact be a serious dressing down for Vettel, Leclerc did nothing wrong.


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## Hobbit (Nov 18, 2019)

ger147 said:



			They of course have to appear even handed in public, hence both drivers being called in, but it will in fact be a serious dressing down for Vettel, Leclerc did nothing wrong.
		
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Just watched it, again, on YouTube. Vettel said after the race that he had nowhere to go, and that LeClerc was forcing him wide. The vid, shot from behind, shows a very different story. And its worth looking at the car in front of them. It was on the line that Vettel was originally on. Vettel moved across, trying to 'bully' LeClerc. I don't have a problem with drivers moving across, providing they don't force another driver off the track, but they have to accept the risk and the consequences of that style of driving.


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## ger147 (Nov 18, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Just watched it, again, on YouTube. Vettel said after the race that he had nowhere to go, and that LeClerc was forcing him wide. The vid, shot from behind, shows a very different story. And its worth looking at the car in front of them. It was on the line that Vettel was originally on. Vettel moved across, trying to 'bully' LeClerc. I don't have a problem with drivers moving across, providing they don't force another driver off the track, but they have to accept the risk and the consequences of that style of driving.
		
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It's pretty stupid steering straight left into a car on your left that you haven't passed yet. If he had kept his foot in it and in a straight line, he would have passed Leclerc by turn 4. Leclerc left him the room he needed. But as you say, Vettel tried to cut across him to put him in his place but misjudged it as he hadn't passed him yet and took them both off.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 18, 2019)

'The Finger' clearly misses the ego stroking he got whilst at Red Bull...


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## harpo_72 (Nov 18, 2019)

Just watched it as well.
Basically blame Vettel, but the lead car owns the road position. 
Why would he move across? Well it's hard to be sure but he wants a better line of entry into the upcoming corner as it's critical. He needs to stay away from the marbles that are flung to the outside of that turn and he needs to get the exit because your climbing to the next turn, so he wants early power down and pure traction. So basically those are the motivators.

I am thinking that Vettel won't get a rollocking, Leclerc won't either but he will be told about fighting and not fighting ... he could have mugged Vettel at turn 1 again using the DRS or stuck it on Vettel at the same place the incident happened... Vettel had 4 extra laps on the soft tyre and tyre degradation in the first few laps is pretty huge.


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## bobmac (Nov 18, 2019)

I bet Hamilton spent most of the weekend thinking 'if Toto can't be bothered, why should I'


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 18, 2019)

As usual, Vettel cocked up and won't accept he made the mistake. He is a has been now, and will never win another WDC. He is in complete contrast to Hamilton, who straight away admitted his error and apologised straight away.
I know which one I think is more classy.


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## robinthehood (Nov 18, 2019)

Check out RBRs 1.82 second pit stop ! That is amazing


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## Slime (Nov 18, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Check out RBRs 1.82 second pit stop ! That is amazing
		
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Here it is;


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## ger147 (Nov 18, 2019)

Slime said:



			Here it is;







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Who said you can't get quicker than a KwikFit fitter...


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## robinthehood (Nov 18, 2019)

its unbelievable, Hes nearly got that front wheel off before the car has even stopped!


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## harpo_72 (Nov 18, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			its unbelievable, Hes nearly got that front wheel off before the car has even stopped!
		
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Was at Williams the other day, they held the record briefly at 1.9 sec. 
they use choreography and have a special gym regime.


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## robinthehood (Nov 18, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			Was at Williams the other day, they held the record briefly at 1.9 sec.
they use choreography and have a special gym regime.
		
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Probably been learning off this guy


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## Aussie Swinger (Nov 19, 2019)

Can anyone explain how one of F1â€™s worst ever drivers is given a weekly column on BBC F1, critiquing drivers whom he was not even fit to wipe the behinds. I am of course on about Joylon (lets  pick the worst Christian name I could ever make up) Palmyer, son of that other F1 Legend â€˜Doctorâ€™ Johnathan.. what a completed zeroid he and his drivel column are...


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## MegaSteve (Nov 20, 2019)

Aussie Swinger said:



			Can anyone explain how one of F1â€™s worst ever drivers is given a weekly column on BBC F1, critiquing drivers whom he was not even fit to wipe the behinds. I am of course on about Joylon (lets  pick the worst Christian name I could ever make up) Palmyer, son of that other F1 Legend â€˜Doctorâ€™ Johnathan.. what a completed zeroid he and his drivel column are...
		
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There, I suppose, has to be poor examples of reporting/commentary so it's easier to identify the better informed...

The late, great James Hunt (for me) penned the best ever column on F1...


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## robinthehood (Nov 20, 2019)

Aussie Swinger said:



			Can anyone explain how one of F1â€™s worst ever drivers is given a weekly column on BBC F1, critiquing drivers whom he was not even fit to wipe the behinds. I am of course on about Joylon (lets  pick the worst Christian name I could ever make up) Palmyer, son of that other F1 Legend â€˜Doctorâ€™ Johnathan.. what a completed zeroid he and his drivel column are...
		
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Yeah I don't bother with his column,  just doesn't see right.


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## Beedee (Dec 23, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula-one/50891934

Interesting times at Ferrari.  Can't see someone as talented as Le Clerc signing up to be a number 2 driver for 5 years.  Surely Vettel will be leaving once his contract is up.


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## ger147 (Dec 23, 2019)

Beedee said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula-one/50891934

Interesting times at Ferrari.  Can't see someone as talented as Le Clerc signing up to be a number 2 driver for 5 years.  Surely Vettel will be leaving once his contract is up.
		
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Yep, Vettel will be leaving and it will be interesting to see who slots into the other Ferrari.  It's public knowledge they have been talking to Lewis about moving there, not sure if Lewis would be up for moving to Ferrari if Leclerc is his team mate but you never know.  If Lewis stays at Mercedes then I don't see where Vettel can go next without dropping down the grid as Mercedes wouldn't put him in Bottas' seat and Max would be faster than him in the Red Bull.  Vettel is too expensive as a number 2 so it'll either be no.1 in a smaller team or out of F1 altogether.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 23, 2019)

Beedee said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula-one/50891934

Interesting times at Ferrari.  Can't see someone as talented as Le Clerc signing up to be a number 2 driver for 5 years.  Surely Vettel will be leaving once his contract is up.
		
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Can see Seb retiring ahead of next season... His heart no longer appears to  be in it... Doesn't get anywhere near the same love at Ferrari as he got at Red Bull...


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