# McIlroy and his caddie



## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 11, 2016)

I didn't overhear any conversations between Rory and his caddie during the weekend coverage but can't help but wonder how much/little influence he had over some of the shots that were played. 11th is a classic example, dumped it in the water 2 days running. I would love to know what input the caddie had in that shot, I'm sure someone forceful like Steve Williams would have grabbed the club off him and forced Rory to play a wedge out to the right side or similar. 

Lots of talk this weekend of Rory capitulating but I believe he would have done better with a stronger caddie. Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps he did give advice and Rory elected to ignore it.

Any thoughts?


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 11, 2016)

I think the importance of the guy who carries the bag is often overstated. In this case, though, you might have a point. I was literally shouting at the telly on Saturday when Rory tried to hook the ball out the trees onto the 11th green. Blindingly obvious what would happen! That was only ever a shot for matchplay with your opponent already in close... Certainly not round 3 of the masters.


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## drdel (Apr 11, 2016)

I tend to agree; too many mistakes from someone who is very talented.

In my opinion he often looks as if he'd rather be somewhere else than on the course - perhaps you're right he needs a stronger caddie.


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 11, 2016)

if memory serves Rorys caddy was spoken about in the same way when he threw the masters a few years back ,it was insinuating then that a stronger caddy would have given him a bit more of an earbashing and got him to roll his sleeves up .


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## need_my_wedge (Apr 11, 2016)

Tough one to call without knowing the inside track on their working relationship. But have to say that Rory frustrated the hell out of me this weekend, making the same mistakes day after day, putting himself in the same bunkers on multiple occasions, was awful to watch.


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## rksquire (Apr 11, 2016)

I brought this up this morning at work, and have to agree.  On saturday I'm sure JP was thinking about Aintree while RM was thinking about getting frustrated and annoyed!.  As FairwayDodger said, that hook on the 11th.... he'd assessed the shot and at the last minute changed club and played the shot.  Why didn't JP at least go "Rory, mate, we've looked at the shot and made our call; why are you changing your mind?".

I'm not sure he needs to change, but he maybe needs JP to step up a bit more. Spieths caddie is fully involved and is always bending over a kneeling Spieth when setting the ball down.  But also, they talk every shot to death so not sure JP needs to go to that length....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 11, 2016)

There relationship is based on years and years of trust and this only comes up when Rory struggles. For all we know he may of blown other majors if it wasn't for JP's input.
Easy to look to shift the blame when it goes wrong. 
Even agreeing that it was the wrong club on the 11th it was still Rory who still executed the shot.


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## freddielong (Apr 11, 2016)

I raised this in the other Masters thread I agree he needs to change his caddie, he has a yes man on the bag Rory made some bad decisions over the four days that were not or did not appear to be questioned.

Rory needs to change what he is doing at the moment it isn't working.


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## Piece (Apr 11, 2016)

I agree Gordon, and said similar to my viewing partners at the time. Wasn't their an interview pre-Masters where he said on one hole (2nd or 3rd) I've learnt my lesson and will take a 3w to stop dumping it in the bunker...yet he took driver still with the same result of going in the bunker? Might have got that wrong though...


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## SyR (Apr 11, 2016)

I think the caddie provides more support than most would appreciate. Danny Willet seemed to have a great relationship with his caddy yesterday that seemed to help ease the tension in the round. Spieth's caddy was involved, but maybe needed to take a stronger role to refocus Spieth after his tee shot on the 12th.
I wouldn't be surprised if Spieth changes caddy in the following months.


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## freddielong (Apr 11, 2016)

SyR said:



			I think the caddie provides more support than most would appreciate. Danny Willet seemed to have a great relationship with his caddy yesterday that seemed to help ease the tension in the round. Spieth's caddy was involved, but maybe needed to take a stronger role to refocus Spieth after his tee shot on the 12th.
I wouldn't be surprised if Spieth changes caddy in the following months.
		
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Whilst I agree they got the decision wrong with the drop on 12, Spieth and his caddie are a very strong team and I cannot see him changing anytime soon.


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## cookelad (Apr 11, 2016)

There was a good moment on the 18th tee last night with Danny Willet's caddie, just after all the crowd had put DW off, his caddie pulled him back and said "Let's start again"


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## Val (Apr 11, 2016)

Maybe JP has been told by Rory to carry the bag and give yardages and nothing more. There is no patience from McIlroy, he is a player who tries to make things happen rather than be patient and wait his opportunity.


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## Val (Apr 11, 2016)

SyR said:



			I think the caddie provides more support than most would appreciate. Danny Willet seemed to have a great relationship with his caddy yesterday that seemed to help ease the tension in the round. Spieth's caddy was involved, but maybe needed to take a stronger role to refocus Spieth after his tee shot on the 12th.
I wouldn't be surprised if Spieth changes caddy in the following months.
		
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Danny Willett during his interviews always used WE when talking about shots etc and that shows how much of a team they are. Spieth's caddy couldnt have done any more at the 12th, the bottom line was his second dump into the water was a hellish shot, he hit it so fat he nearly didnt make the water.


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## smange (Apr 11, 2016)

Val said:



			Maybe JP has been told by Rory to carry the bag and give yardages and nothing more. There is no patience from McIlroy, he is a player who tries to make things happen rather than be patient and wait his opportunity.
		
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You can expect a backlash from the Rory fanboys for daring to suggest Rory himself may have been to blame for not playing particularly well and not brushing aside all the other hugely talented golfers with consummate ease week in week out.

I mean he only holds the club, swings the club and hits the ball but you should know that any poor shots arising from this sequence is in actual fact the fault of either the caddie, the coach, the management team, the golf course, the make of clubs and balls he uses and especially when at Augusta the grass for being so bloody green.

How downright idiotic of you to suggest that Rory may actually not have played well through his own failings &#128580;
&#128521;&#128513;


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## Duckster (Apr 11, 2016)

There's been smatterings in the press and on golf podcasts that have been talking about Rory and JP for a few weeks now, not just at the Masters.  Personally you see the body language between them both over the past few events they've played in and they just look to be at odds with each other.

To be fair though, the same people also saying similar things with Spieth and his caddie (Greller?).

Like Val says, if they've been told to just carry the bag and give yardages then they are doing their job.  Never know what goes on behind closed doors.


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## Duckster (Apr 11, 2016)

Val said:



			Danny Willett during his interviews always used WE when talking about shots etc and that shows how much of a team they are. Spieth's caddy couldnt have done any more at the 12th, the bottom line was his second dump into the water was a hellish shot, he hit it so fat he nearly didnt make the water.
		
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I think Spieth was a bit narked about 12.  He was saying in the interview afterwards about how he should have gone to the drop zone where he knew the exact yardage.  I read that as being that he was still a bit unsure about the yardage he had and that his caddie should have said something. 

Although it was a chunk of a shot.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 11, 2016)

Val said:



			Maybe JP has been told by Rory to carry the bag and give yardages and nothing more. There is no patience from McIlroy, he is a player who tries to make things happen rather than be patient and wait his opportunity.
		
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Yes there is always this possibility hence the reason I asked if anyone had managed to pick up any of the conversations between them. Bottom line is the player makes the final decision and hits the shots but a smart player will always take on board the caddie's thoughts.


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## GeneralStore (Apr 11, 2016)

I heard Willet's caddie tell Danny "Let's start again", an amazing piece of caddying!

I think Rory has lost the plot somewhat. Too much pumping iron, Nike commericals, tight fitting tops and hanging out with celebs. Get your mind right junior, sort your putting out and improve your course management. He has fallen behind Spieth and Day big time. 

The caddy is part of that whole scenario, walks around with his sunglasses on and thinks he is the man. Dont like his attitude, looks to me like that partnership in general is short on motivation, focus and work ethic. A waste of talent.


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## Leereed (Apr 11, 2016)

I can't work out  how much they do as to the shot to hit and wind etc, I am sure every pro knows how far he hits every club and knows where the wind is coming from.
i think some might be a calming influence on the player if they have got in a flap.


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 11, 2016)

we cant blame JP for Rorys failure as he dosent employ Rory ,and its not like JP hasnt got experience of doing the job ,he was McGinleys caddy for a while i believe


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## User62651 (Apr 11, 2016)

To me its mainly Rory, but he would benefit from someone like dare I say it Steve Williams. Rory looks disinterested too easily, if it aint all going his way and he's out front winning he doesn't look able to grind out a score to stay in the tournament when he's not playing so well. Watching him on Saturday was all too familiar, with some application I felt he could've stayed in the tournament by focussing harder on many of those shots and course managing far better, that 77 could've easy been 74. Tiger or Jack could do that, Rory hasn't demonstrated he can, maybe he doesn't care, he's got all he needs in life already.


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## Siren (Apr 11, 2016)

Rory is his own man and has stated several times he doesnt listen to advice given from others even JP. Remember him hurting his wrist after hitting a shot off a tree root, you could here JP pleading with him not to hit it, he did it anyway and got hurt.


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## muttleee (Apr 11, 2016)

Duckster said:



			I think Spieth was a bit narked about 12.  He was saying in the interview afterwards about how he should have gone to the drop zone where he knew the exact yardage.  I read that as being that he was still a bit unsure about the yardage he had and that his caddie should have said something.
		
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He also said that he hit it from there because he was 'trying to avoid a slope' so there was at least some sort of reason for it.


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## mcbroon (Apr 11, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			To me its mainly Rory, but he would benefit from someone like dare I say it Steve Williams. Rory looks disinterested too easily, if it aint all going his way and he's out front winning he doesn't look able to grind out a score to stay in the tournament when he's not playing so well. Watching him on Saturday was all too familiar, with some application I felt he could've stayed in the tournament by focussing harder on many of those shots and course managing far better, that 77 could've easy been 74. Tiger or Jack could do that, Rory hasn't demonstrated he can, maybe he doesn't care, he's got all he needs in life already.
		
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This.  He gives in too easily. All the way through Saturday he looked as if he had decided that it was all unfair and he wasn't getting any luck, and his attitude was pretty poor. As a result, he lacked focus and made stupid mistakes. Dumping it in the bunker on 2 after Spieth had already hooked one left; going in the bunker on 3, following Spieth left on 4 and then the crowning glory, the brainless 3-putt on 7. All instances where he could have put Spieth under pressure and didn't do it. We all know he has the talent, so there must be something else stopping him. My opinion is that he doesn't have enough fight in him when it's not going his way.

Could a different caddy change that? I don't know. But it would be interesting to see JP give him a rocket at some point when he's huffing his way round.


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## hines57 (Apr 11, 2016)

couldn't agree with you more. I know Rory plays an aggressive game, but why oh why didn't he take 3 wood off the First tee to put the ball in play like all the others were doing! Into the same bunker two days running could have been avoided. He may not want a forceful caddie, but who knows what difference it could have made?


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## MC72 (Apr 11, 2016)

mcbroon said:



			This.  He gives in too easily. All the way through Saturday he looked as if he had decided that it was all unfair and he wasn't getting any luck, and his attitude was pretty poor. As a result, he lacked focus and made stupid mistakes. Dumping it in the bunker on 2 after Spieth had already hooked one left; going in the bunker on 3, following Spieth left on 4 and then the crowning glory, the brainless 3-putt on 7. All instances where he could have put Spieth under pressure and didn't do it. We all know he has the talent, so there must be something else stopping him. My opinion is that he doesn't have enough fight in him when it's not going his way.

Could a different caddy change that? I don't know. But it would be interesting to see JP give him a rocket at some point when he's huffing his way round.
		
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I generally agree with the points you've made above but also feel that there is an issue with the way that Rory wants, or rather is determined to, play. He said in an interview that he knows he can "knock it round Augusta in the 60s standing on his head, the issue is doing it under tournament conditions when it matters and making better decisions". Jordan Speith was happy enough playing lay-ups to the par 5s on Saturday as he knew it would greatly increase his chances of lowering his score and would put him in a far stronger position at the start of Sundays round.

If Rory was more selective with his err....Glory shots he'd have no problem shooting low scores every round. If he was happy to accept that he doesn't have to demolish the ball with every shot he'd be coming into final rounds and final holes of final rounds in pole position. There's definitely times to be aggressive and make the most of your advantage over the rest of the field, and there's also times to accept you don't need to attack the flag and a par is perfectly acceptable.

I'd like to see him be a bit more conservative at times and, for the want of a better term, show a bit more golf golf maturity.

....but then again I've never won a major...!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 11, 2016)

Hard to say isn't it. We rarely get to hear the conversations regularly but there are two points from the coverage. McIlroy, was clearly in a bad headspace on the 4th tee on Saturday after the approach spun back and he made bogey. A good caddie could have said, calm down and stay patient. I don't think (but can't be certain from the coverage but it didn't appear so) his man did so. Secondly, why didn't Speith simply go to the drop zone, where he knew the yardage and why didn't the caddy insist on doing so, knowing how good his man is. Granted it was a chunk, but I reckon there was too much doubt in Spieths head and he never looked as though he committed to the shot


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## golfcitydweller (Apr 11, 2016)

can`t see speith / greller  splitting ....greller reads the greens for him  and is excellent at it ...only question over greller is that he`s had it all his own way as speith has never really had a collapse  mid round when leading , so greller `s never had to  pull him out of the mire ....jordan`s  ball stiking cost him the masters  , not his caddie !


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## fundy (Apr 11, 2016)

One of Paul Caseys interviews was quite enlightening. He has recently changed to Luke Donalds old caddie and couldnt sing his praises enough citing how much he had added and that he felt a far stronger golfer because of the partnership


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 11, 2016)

Don't think Spieth and his caddy will split over this. Why would they? It happens and only a handful of poor shots, admittedly at a bad time. Not like they haven't been successful is it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

I remember these type of conversations two years ago after he had a poor first season with Nike , calls that he was into the gym too much , caring more about the money and social media and suggestions that he take Steve Williams as caddy etc etc 

6 weeks later he won the PGA then the Open and then the US PGA

McIlroy is a streaky player - always has been - he will always throughout his career have periods where he won't be at the peak of his game. 

He will learn from the last week and move on.


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## pipedit (Apr 11, 2016)

Apologies in advance, this is a long post!

I have been following Rory McIlroy fairly closely the past 6 months. Anytime he is playing I try to catch the coverage. I do root for him when playing the Masters as I would like to see him achieve something only a select few have. But much of what has been said on this forum has substance.

1.    Course Management
Saturday encapsulated what Rory does poorly. Its not just at Augusta that he does this but his mistakes here are magnified due to the green complexes. Yes there are probably mental issues related to The Masters/Grand Slam etc that are affecting him also. Nevertheless nothing encapsulates his course management mistakes more than two particular examples. In Tuesdays press conference he stated he would be taking 3 wood off the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] tee to avoid the bunker on the right. We know what happened Saturday. On the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] after again going into the bunker off the tee he played the shot most likely to end up with bogey. He aimed for the flag that was in the narrow tongue on the front right and was left with an impossible up and down. Spieth would have got that ball anywhere on the green no matter what and two putted par. As for the 11[SUP]th[/SUP]; If he had parred the 11[SUP]th[/SUP] he would have been level par going into the final round just where Danny Willett won it from. To hear Rory speak since Saturday his refrain is â€œI couldnâ€™t get anything going on the back 9â€. He doesnâ€™t sound ready or able to accept his mistakes. Even in the final round he shot 7 birdies. That gets him into a play off with Dannyâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦. Except he shot 6 bogeys! How to play Augusta and win is all written down by Nicklaus and Tiger. At the Masters for some reason Rory is incapable of sticking to any gameplan.


2.    Technical Swing Issue
Rory has an issue with short iron control. 75 â€“ 150yds. In the past 12 months Iâ€™ve seen too many examples of him missing greens with a short iron in hand. It isnâ€™t simply a case of aggressively going for a flag. On occasion he has missed the green completely long or even on the opposite side. He has a tendency to either block or put too much draw spin on the ball. We all know Rory spins his hips fast. Hitting woods/long irons he is always on the edge of getting stuck on the downswing but everything syncs up right at the end because he is swinging full out with his arms. I believe when he is hitting short irons and trying to be more precise his hips are outracing his arms. The stats from the PGA tour back this up. From 50-125 yards he was ranked 32[SUP]nd[/SUP] in 2014. In 2016 he is ranked 111[SUP]th[/SUP]. On approaches from greater than 200yards out he is ranked 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] in those years. Its not unusual to see him hit a 4 iron closer to the pin than a wedge. Is this related to the extra gym work? I donâ€™t know much about core/weights etc but would love to see an analysis of his wedges from 2014 and now.

3.    Putting
Of course a major issue but one I think he will come out the other side of, at least often enough to pick up a few more majors

4.    Caddy
A lot of what Iâ€™ve read about JP has been unfair. He is doing what McIlroy wants him to do. If he tried to exert more control he would be out on his ear. People think itâ€™s as simple as replacing JP. However, McIlroy isnâ€™t going to listen to anyone else either. All pros have huge egos, they have to in order to make it. There is a danger as McIlroy digests this latest Masters his thoughts will turn to blaming someone else instead of looking coldly at the stats and his mistakes. Then you will see JP getting moved on, maybe for just the Masters. I would prefer to see him sit down with everyone on his team and draw up a plan of attack every evening and make him accountable to sticking to it.


Everything above for someone as talented as Rory is easily fixable. BUT if he refuses to adapt/change/take advice he will never win the Masters unless he is basically handed it by someone some year!


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## Region3 (Apr 11, 2016)

"I couldn't get anything going" sounds like he just goes out and hits shots, waiting to catch fire.

When he does he's very hard to beat, but until that happens he needs to (apologies for the Americanism) "golf his ball".


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## pokerjoke (Apr 11, 2016)

pipedit said:



			Apologies in advance, this is a long post!

I have been following Rory McIlroy fairly closely the past 6 months. Anytime he is playing I try to catch the coverage. I do root for him when playing the Masters as I would like to see him achieve something only a select few have. But much of what has been said on this forum has substance.

1.    Course Management
Saturday encapsulated what Rory does poorly. Its not just at Augusta that he does this but his mistakes here are magnified due to the green complexes. Yes there are probably mental issues related to The Masters/Grand Slam etc that are affecting him also. Nevertheless nothing encapsulates his course management mistakes more than two particular examples. In Tuesdays press conference he stated he would be taking 3 wood off the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] tee to avoid the bunker on the right. We know what happened Saturday. On the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] after again going into the bunker off the tee he played the shot most likely to end up with bogey. He aimed for the flag that was in the narrow tongue on the front right and was left with an impossible up and down. Spieth would have got that ball anywhere on the green no matter what and two putted par. As for the 11[SUP]th[/SUP]; If he had parred the 11[SUP]th[/SUP] he would have been level par going into the final round just where Danny Willett won it from. To hear Rory speak since Saturday his refrain is â€œI couldnâ€™t get anything going on the back 9â€. He doesnâ€™t sound ready or able to accept his mistakes. Even in the final round he shot 7 birdies. That gets him into a play off with Dannyâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦. Except he shot 6 bogeys! How to play Augusta and win is all written down by Nicklaus and Tiger. At the Masters for some reason Rory is incapable of sticking to any gameplan.


2.    Technical Swing Issue
Rory has an issue with short iron control. 75 â€“ 150yds. In the past 12 months Iâ€™ve seen too many examples of him missing greens with a short iron in hand. It isnâ€™t simply a case of aggressively going for a flag. On occasion he has missed the green completely long or even on the opposite side. He has a tendency to either block or put too much draw spin on the ball. We all know Rory spins his hips fast. Hitting woods/long irons he is always on the edge of getting stuck on the downswing but everything syncs up right at the end because he is swinging full out with his arms. I believe when he is hitting short irons and trying to be more precise his hips are outracing his arms. The stats from the PGA tour back this up. From 50-125 yards he was ranked 32[SUP]nd[/SUP] in 2014. In 2016 he is ranked 111[SUP]th[/SUP]. On approaches from greater than 200yards out he is ranked 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] in those years. Its not unusual to see him hit a 4 iron closer to the pin than a wedge. Is this related to the extra gym work? I donâ€™t know much about core/weights etc but would love to see an analysis of his wedges from 2014 and now.

3.    Putting
Of course a major issue but one I think he will come out the other side of, at least often enough to pick up a few more majors

4.    Caddy
A lot of what Iâ€™ve read about JP has been unfair. He is doing what McIlroy wants him to do. If he tried to exert more control he would be out on his ear. People think itâ€™s as simple as replacing JP. However, McIlroy isnâ€™t going to listen to anyone else either. All pros have huge egos, they have to in order to make it. There is a danger as McIlroy digests this latest Masters his thoughts will turn to blaming someone else instead of looking coldly at the stats and his mistakes. Then you will see JP getting moved on, maybe for just the Masters. I would prefer to see him sit down with everyone on his team and draw up a plan of attack every evening and make him accountable to sticking to it.


Everything above for someone as talented as Rory is easily fixable. BUT if he refuses to adapt/change/take advice he will never win the Masters unless he is basically handed it by someone some year!
		
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Right your banned straight away mate you cant just waltz up and start talking sense.

Start with a what ball thread and work your way up to the sensible stuff


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 11, 2016)

pipedit said:



			Apologies in advance, this is a long post!

I have been following Rory McIlroy fairly closely the past 6 months. Anytime he is playing I try to catch the coverage. I do root for him when playing the Masters as I would like to see him achieve something only a select few have. But much of what has been said on this forum has substance.

1.    Course Management
Saturday encapsulated what Rory does poorly. Its not just at Augusta that he does this but his mistakes here are magnified due to the green complexes. Yes there are probably mental issues related to The Masters/Grand Slam etc that are affecting him also. Nevertheless nothing encapsulates his course management mistakes more than two particular examples. In Tuesdays press conference he stated he would be taking 3 wood off the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] tee to avoid the bunker on the right. We know what happened Saturday. On the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] after again going into the bunker off the tee he played the shot most likely to end up with bogey. He aimed for the flag that was in the narrow tongue on the front right and was left with an impossible up and down. Spieth would have got that ball anywhere on the green no matter what and two putted par. As for the 11[SUP]th[/SUP]; If he had parred the 11[SUP]th[/SUP] he would have been level par going into the final round just where Danny Willett won it from. To hear Rory speak since Saturday his refrain is â€œI couldnâ€™t get anything going on the back 9â€. He doesnâ€™t sound ready or able to accept his mistakes. Even in the final round he shot 7 birdies. That gets him into a play off with Dannyâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦. Except he shot 6 bogeys! How to play Augusta and win is all written down by Nicklaus and Tiger. At the Masters for some reason Rory is incapable of sticking to any gameplan.


2.    Technical Swing Issue
Rory has an issue with short iron control. 75 â€“ 150yds. In the past 12 months Iâ€™ve seen too many examples of him missing greens with a short iron in hand. It isnâ€™t simply a case of aggressively going for a flag. On occasion he has missed the green completely long or even on the opposite side. He has a tendency to either block or put too much draw spin on the ball. We all know Rory spins his hips fast. Hitting woods/long irons he is always on the edge of getting stuck on the downswing but everything syncs up right at the end because he is swinging full out with his arms. I believe when he is hitting short irons and trying to be more precise his hips are outracing his arms. The stats from the PGA tour back this up. From 50-125 yards he was ranked 32[SUP]nd[/SUP] in 2014. In 2016 he is ranked 111[SUP]th[/SUP]. On approaches from greater than 200yards out he is ranked 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] in those years. Its not unusual to see him hit a 4 iron closer to the pin than a wedge. Is this related to the extra gym work? I donâ€™t know much about core/weights etc but would love to see an analysis of his wedges from 2014 and now.

3.    Putting
Of course a major issue but one I think he will come out the other side of, at least often enough to pick up a few more majors

4.    Caddy
A lot of what Iâ€™ve read about JP has been unfair. He is doing what McIlroy wants him to do. If he tried to exert more control he would be out on his ear. People think itâ€™s as simple as replacing JP. However, McIlroy isnâ€™t going to listen to anyone else either. All pros have huge egos, they have to in order to make it. There is a danger as McIlroy digests this latest Masters his thoughts will turn to blaming someone else instead of looking coldly at the stats and his mistakes. Then you will see JP getting moved on, maybe for just the Masters. I would prefer to see him sit down with everyone on his team and draw up a plan of attack every evening and make him accountable to sticking to it.


Everything above for someone as talented as Rory is easily fixable. BUT if he refuses to adapt/change/take advice he will never win the Masters unless he is basically handed it by someone some year!
		
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Welcome along. Unusually wise words. We aren't use to it


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2016)

Good post pipedit &#128077; I think McIlroy main challenge is actually his biggest strength. He hits it miles and I think that has led to him thinking he can overpower any golf course. Pipedit your second point is interesting. The longer you hit your clubs the bigger a gap you have at the bottom of your bag. Perhaps Rory hasn't been spending enough time on his partial swing shots. That would explain why when he's on it he's untouchable because he'll laser in on all the pins. 

By contrast Speith isn't very long and the thing I found most surprising at the Masters wasn't his capitulation on the back nine but the fact he had such a commanding lead whilst playing so badly. His scrambling was quite incredible.

After watching this weekend I know who I'm gig to try and emulate. Pitching, chipping and putting practice for me. 

And as for JP I think Rory is hard headed and doesn't want conflict. When's he's made his mind up it looks as though you have to let him get on with it. I think he made his mind up before the start of play he was going to take everything on. He seems to compound errors by trying too hard too soon to make up for them.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 11, 2016)

Tiger said:



			And as for JP I think Rory is hard headed and doesn't want conflict. When's he's made his mind up it looks as though you have to let him get on with it.
		
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Fair point which means McIlroy either learns the hard way (throwing away more tournaments?) or he changes and employs a tough caddie. As much as I dislike Steve Williams, I think he would be perfect for Rory.


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## Val (Apr 11, 2016)

drive4show said:



			Fair point which means McIlroy either learns the hard way (throwing away more tournaments?) or he changes and employs a tough caddie. As much as I dislike Steve Williams, I think he would be perfect for Rory.
		
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I actually think Billy Foster or Craig Connoly would be a great caddie for Rory.


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## Smiffy (Apr 12, 2016)

I've often thought this about Rory's caddie. 
He never seems authoritative enough and gives the impression that he's an older mate just out there for a stroll.


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## Slab (Apr 12, 2016)

pipedit's post was a good read with more than a couple of things that make you think (especially the short game stat)

Don't know Rory one iota so not sure if he is a team player that can commit to a game plan formed by the whole team including his caddie or whether 'he's the man' and will do what he thinks best 

In hindsight the 'take it on' aggressive attitude to shot selection definitely hurt him but to be fair he was chasing the leader and how many years out of 10 would Danny have taken the win, probably just one. Spieth isn't going to do that too often so the game plan for Danny came good but it still relied on a slump in some form from Spieth in order to work (& it make great viewing)

Sunday morning over breakfast and maybe the better game plan was to 'go for it' but maybe Rory just went OTT and took it too literally


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## Tiger (Apr 12, 2016)

The game plan for Danny was take one hole at a time and try and compile the best score on the day. He did start very well but was controlled and patient throughout his round. Rory was trying to birdie every hole!!!


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## freddielong (Apr 12, 2016)

Tiger said:



			The game plan for Danny was take one hole at a time and try and compile the best score on the day. He did start very well but was controlled and patient throughout his round. Rory was trying to birdie every hole!!!
		
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That is the only way you can play good golf one shot at a time.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 12, 2016)

I think FD made an excellent point in an earlier post, over the weekend Rory was playing matchplay golf not 72 hole strokeplay golf.


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## mikeb4 (Apr 12, 2016)

SyR said:



			I think the caddie provides more support than most would appreciate. Danny Willet seemed to have a great relationship with his caddy yesterday that seemed to help ease the tension in the round. Spieth's caddy was involved, but maybe needed to take a stronger role to refocus Spieth after his tee shot on the 12th.
I wouldn't be surprised if Spieth changes caddy in the following months.
		
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no way spieth will be changing his caddie................


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## PieMan (Apr 12, 2016)

I'd quite happily be Rory's caddie - looks like a good gig to me. If all he wants me to do is carry his clubs, give them a little clean, and give him yardages then that's fine with me! Considerably better than my current day job!!


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## fundy (Apr 12, 2016)

PieMan said:



			I'd quite happily be Rory's caddie - looks like a good gig to me. If all he wants me to do is carry his clubs, give them a little clean, and give him yardages then that's fine with me! Considerably better than my current day job!!
		
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think you'll find thats the job description for Duston Johnsons caddy!!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 12, 2016)

In that case Pieman can do Rory and I'll do Dustins bag. Both trouser huge sums in the US. Pieman, I'll get the first round in :thup:


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## PieMan (Apr 12, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In that case Pieman can do Rory and I'll do Dustins bag. Both trouser huge sums in the US. Pieman, I'll get the first round in :thup:
		
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Sounds good to me LT! Although I think I'll be down in the bar before you as you'll be helping Dustin with his Kindergarten homework!!! Don't think there's much going on between the ears with that fella!!!


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 12, 2016)

PieMan said:



			I'd quite happily be Rory's caddie - looks like a good gig to me. If all he wants me to do is carry his clubs, give them a little clean, and give him yardages then that's fine with me! Considerably better than my current day job!!
		
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Plus golf pundits and hackers on every golf website harping on about how useless you are and how much you're holding their hero back. But don't worry he'll soon get a new girlfriend and then she'll cop the blame...


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## PieMan (Apr 12, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Plus golf pundits and hackers on every golf website harping on about how useless you are and how much you're holding their hero back. But don't worry he'll soon get a new girlfriend and then she'll cop the blame... 

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 :thup: whilst I'll quite happily be pocketing a couple of million a year for being useless!!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 12, 2016)

I'll be happy to do his homework for him to get him through his exams. We have had a succession of royals where that has worked, why not for Dustin as well. All he has to do is whack that little white ball, I'll work out 7 x 8 for him. 

Pieman and I will have a whale of a time. I don't do twitter or Facebook so all the haters can moan away. We'll be living in our Florida mansions drinking cold beer and living it up.


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## freddielong (Apr 12, 2016)

I don't think anyone is saying that with a better Caddie Rory would have won it's more that his current Caddie doesn't appear to add anything to Rorys game and a better caddie might.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I don't think anyone is saying that with a better Caddie Rory would have won it's more that his current Caddie doesn't appear to add anything to Rorys game and a better caddie might.
		
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Key words "appear" and "might"

Remember the interview Rory did after winning the US Open and the impact JP had to help him recover from the Masters that year 

Also how he helped him keep calm both in his second PGA and the Open.

I fully expect JP does exactly what Rory wants - to be there when needed and to offer the advice he needs and wants.


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## freddielong (Apr 12, 2016)

It's a discussion on a forum I am sure "appear"and "might" are key words in most of them.

Maybe Rory is getting what he wants from JP but not what he needs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			It's a discussion on a forum I am sure "appear"and "might" are key words in most of them.

Maybe Rory is getting what he wants from JP but not what he needs.
		
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And who do you think is best placed to decide what he needs - Rory


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## freddielong (Apr 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And who do you think is best placed to decide what he needs - Rory
		
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Not usually, if he is getting what he wants he may not realise he actually needs more or something different.


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## drdel (Apr 12, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Not usually, if he is getting what he wants he may not realise he actually needs more or something different.
		
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I agree. The problem is the RM is the source of income for a considerable number of hangers-on who will be concerned that the gravy train's wheels may come off for them if they argue - as we saw with the management company fiasco.

RM has a bit of a reputation for 'knowing his own mind' which can often get in the way of being given the correct advice - only the 'Yes men' will survive..


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 12, 2016)

drdel said:



			I agree. The problem is the RM is the source of income for a considerable number of hangers-on who will be concerned that the gravy train's wheels may come off for them if they argue - as we saw with the management company fiasco.

RM has a bit of a reputation for 'knowing his own mind' which can often get in the way of being given the correct advice - only the 'Yes men' will survive..
		
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I don't think it's right to start suggesting JP is there purely because of any gravy train. Not one of us will ever fully understand the relationship between him and JP 

Did people question Phil being with Bones when he had a few struggles ? 

Just because you can't hear what is talked between the two doesn't mean conversations don't happen

The crucial part for McIlroy is that he the player is comfortable with the caddy he is with and who knows his game inside and out and is the character Rory wants - JP has been with him from the start - was with him during the youthful rise then during the meltdown at Augusta - then by his side to help him recover to win the US Open then the US PGA - was with him when he went through his slump after moving to Nike and then with him again as he won majors. 

Rory knows exactly who should be his caddy and right now it's JP


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## drdel (Apr 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't think it's right to start suggesting JP is there purely because of any gravy train. Not one of us will ever fully understand the relationship between him and JP 

Did people question Phil being with Bones when he had a few struggles ? 

Just because you can't hear what is talked between the two doesn't mean conversations don't happen

The crucial part for McIlroy is that he the player is comfortable with the caddy he is with and who knows his game inside and out and is the character Rory wants - JP has been with him from the start - was with him during the youthful rise then during the meltdown at Augusta - then by his side to help him recover to win the US Open then the US PGA - was with him when he went through his slump after moving to Nike and then with him again as he won majors. 

Rory knows exactly who should be his caddy and right now it's JP
		
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 JP was not cited/ mentioned. My post mentioned a potential issue that is common with many famous and rich people.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 12, 2016)

drdel said:



			JP was not cited/ mentioned. My post mentioned a potential issue that is common with many famous and rich people.
		
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You're right it is very much an issue for young people who get rich 

I think that's why McIlroy moved away from Horizon - too many people wanting to make money off him. Certainly sees like he is now settled looking after his own affairs ( with a bit of help from Chubby)


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 12, 2016)

We'll never know the full amount of impact McIlroys caddie has, Its one of those things you can assume, surmise and discuss but only those two will know. Whether as an outsider it seems both are getting the best from each other, is debatable but I don't see the pairing changing soon


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## NWJocko (Apr 12, 2016)

There was some interesting discussions in the Masters Breakfast show about caddies, not this in oarticular but quite informative in the context of the discussion.

They were saying that Spieths caddie was sitting with the old Augusta caddies talking through their strategy for each hole with the yardage book, marking out what club he'd hit, where the miss was etc etc.

Then the Sky lads were saying McIlroy had decided to hit 3 wood off the 2nd every day to avoid the bunker.

Spieth wasn't playing very well and just about won the thing, McIlroy obviously chucked his "game plan" out the window and horsed it into the bunker 2 days running!

Whether its caddie, or player, or a combination of both, he needs to get his head out his jacksie. Just because he can hit driver incredibly well doesn't mean he should do it everywhere. Maybe the caddie should just have given him the 3 wood in the 2nd tee and walked away with the rest of his clubs....

Just an example of, from the outsides at least, where their approaches differ.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 13, 2016)

I saw that and what you say makes total sense. What however does the caddy do if he knows that action will result in getting the sack? Walk away from the best salary he will ever get? Maybe RM is someone who likes to make his own decisions and wants his caddy to only do certain things. If the caddy follows those instructions then he should not get hammered, that is for McCilroy and perhaps his management to resolve. Until we know the relationship that RM wants with his caddy it is hard to slam the caddy for mistakes he may not actually be making.


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## garyinderry (Apr 13, 2016)

too many times we have seen Rory throw the towel in early.  this was yet another example.  

he wasn't the only one.  half the board was on their way to bed seeing nothing but Jordan winning yet again.  

Patience was in short supply on Sunday. :rofl:


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## GMAC88 (Apr 13, 2016)

I agree with the OP. Remeber the wrist injury too!? A stronger caddy would've made him chip out there too!!!


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I saw that and what you say makes total sense. What however does the caddy do if he knows that action will result in getting the sack? Walk away from the best salary he will ever get? Maybe RM is someone who likes to make his own decisions and wants his caddy to only do certain things. If the caddy follows those instructions then he should not get hammered, that is for McCilroy and perhaps his management to resolve. Until we know the relationship that RM wants with his caddy it is hard to slam the caddy for mistakes he may not actually be making.
		
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that JP is a bad caddie, just that he may not be the best caddie for Rory at the moment.

I think possibly the worst decision the pair made was Rorys 2nd to 11 in round 3, it just was not the shot to attempt, if Rory cannot see that a stronger caddie may have


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			I think possibly the worst decision the pair made was Rorys 2nd to 11 in round 3, it just was not the shot to attempt, if Rory cannot see that a stronger caddie may have
		
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And then to follow it up with an almost identical shot on day 4!


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

drive4show said:



			And then to follow it up with an almost identical shot on day 4!
		
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Exactly, schoolboy stuff.

The caddies job is to help the pro get around the course in the least amount of shots, if it was just to carry the bag surely a power caddy would be cheaper.


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

Rory is stubborn, simple.  Until his confidence returns on the Augusta greens he will fail miserably each time.

It is well known that JP is one of the best in the business.  Unless their personal relationship has deteriorated I can see it being a Mickelson\Bones type of scenario.

Firing JP would only add to his woe's at this moment and time.


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			Rory is stubborn, simple.  Until his confidence returns on the Augusta greens he will fail miserably each time.

It is well known that JP is one of the best in the business.  Unless their personal relationship has deteriorated I can see it being a Mickelson\Bones type of scenario.

Firing JP would only add to his woe's at this moment and time.
		
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Ok so because he is stubborn a good caddie will just sit back and let him make the same mistakes over and over as long as they get paid, I didn't realise.


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ok so because he is stubborn a good caddie will just sit back and let him make the same mistakes over and over as long as they get paid, I didn't realise.
		
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I have been behind the ropes and caddied on the European Tour, JP is one of the best.

Remember, the player plays the shot not the caddy.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I have been behind the ropes and caddied on the European Tour, JP is one of the best.
		
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Were you a full time caddie or a one-off type of arrangement for a friend?


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

drive4show said:



			Were you a full time caddie or a one-off type of arrangement for a friend?
		
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Full time.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I have been behind the ropes and caddied on the European Tour, JP is one of the best.

Remember, the player plays the shot not the caddy.
		
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But the best pairings are just that and work in conjunction. Look at Willett and his man at the last stepping off and going again. Spieth and his man, who never panicked after 12 and kept going. Loads of good bagmen but the very best know when they need to be firm. Not sure JP has this at the moment with McIlroy


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I have been behind the ropes and caddied on the European Tour, JP is one of the best.

Remember, the player plays the shot not the caddy.
		
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Why is he one of the best what makes him one of the best?

All I have seen recently is him standing by and letting his man play what are obviously the wrong shots.


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But the best pairings are just that and work in conjunction. Look at Willett and his man at the last stepping off and going again. Spieth and his man, who never panicked after 12 and kept going. Loads of good bagmen but the very best know when they need to be firm. Not sure JP has this at the moment with McIlroy
		
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You guys just don't get it


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			You guys just don't get it 

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Enlighten us then. Start with your experience


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			You guys just don't get it 

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Oh well we haven't all "worked on tour" like you why don't you explain.


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## Dave3498 (Apr 13, 2016)

I understand Van de Veldes' old caddy is looking for a bag.  Perhaps Rory could use him.

BTW. If Spieth had played from the dropping zone on the 12th. and made 5, he would still have lost the Masters.


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Oh well we haven't all "worked on tour" like you why don't you explain.
		
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I come on to the forum every now and then but I don't have the desire to A write long posts and B share information about others.

Go along to Troon this year and follow Mcilroy and JP, come back and let me know your thoughts.


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I come on to the forum every now and then but I don't have the desire to A write long posts and B share information about others.

Go along to Troon this year and follow Mcilroy and JP, come back and let me know your thoughts.
		
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Sorry but you already have my thoughts, maybe you are just out of touch now you are no longer "on tour".


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2016)

I would expect with him being a caddie and having worked on the tour previously his insight prob holds a bit more weight as opposed to people seeing a few things on telly - also seems to back up what Rory has said about JP in past - but then he is only one of the best golfers in the world - what would he know about what he needs from a caddie


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I come on to the forum every now and then but I don't have the desire to A write long posts and B share information about others.

Go along to Troon this year and follow Mcilroy and JP, come back and let me know your thoughts.
		
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Already have my thoughts. They include if you aren't able to allude on your experience then how are we expected to learn from what you've seen? Why does that A) have to be long and B) name names specifically


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## drdel (Apr 13, 2016)

Nobody is asking for names - an insight would be interesting.

Not quite sure why you even bothered to post at all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2016)

drdel said:



			Nobody is asking for names - an insight would be interesting.

Not quite sure why you even bothered to post at all.
		
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Paul McGinley gave an insight into JP and his relationship with Rory and how good a caddy he is on Thursday night - also mentioned it again on Friday night


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would expect with him being a caddie and having worked on the tour previously his insight prob holds a bit more weight as opposed to people seeing a few things on telly - also seems to back up what Rory has said about JP in past - but then he is only one of the best golfers in the world - what would he know about what he needs from a caddie
		
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Yes ok that's right, he said it was so so it's so, wouldn't back it up with anything but hey let's just accept it.

Rory made mistake after mistake if he had a different guy on the bag he may not have done that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Yes ok that's right, he said it was so so it's so, wouldn't back it up with anything but hey let's just accept it.

Rory made mistake after mistake if he had a different guy on the bag he may not have done that.
		
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What do they say, a change is as good as a rest. I wonder what would happen if McIlroy got a stronger man that would be more in his ear. Might do him some good and I wonder if we'd see the silly errors like the 11th at Augusta as often. Mentally, I don't think McIlroy is as strong/good as a lot of those around him in the game


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Yes ok that's right, he said it was so so it's so, wouldn't back it up with anything but hey let's just accept it.

Rory made mistake after mistake if he had a different guy on the bag he may not have done that.
		
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And he may have made the same mistakes maybe even more. Plenty of players make mistakes - it happens when the player is off form a bit - doesn't mean it's finger pointing time at the caddy. For all anyone knows JP could have been speaking to him the whole way round but as been alluded to on here and in the media by well respected golfers - Rory is a strong minded person and knows what he wants to do - a strong minded caddy could have been a disaster to work with. 

Rory knows his own game , his coach knows his game and importantly JP knows his game. There is no doubt they will be back playing well again soon enough winning comps - the man has carried his bag to four majors and multiple other comps and Rory has stated how much of a help JP has been. Maybe Rory knows what's best for himself - seems to have done pretty well so far I would suggest


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Paul McGinley gave an insight into JP and his relationship with Rory and how good a caddy he is on Thursday night - also mentioned it again on Friday night
		
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Paul McGinley thinks everyone is great.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Paul McGinley thinks everyone is great.
		
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So it wouldn't matter if Darren Clarke or Billy Foster ( who thinks he is one of the best caddies in the game also ) or indeed any on else who actually knows what's going on and how the relationship works between the two - it would all be immediately dismissed


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Paul McGinley thinks everyone is great.
		
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And wouldn't say otherwise on live TV anyway


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			seems to have done pretty well so far I would suggest
		
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He has done ok, it would be easy to argue he hasn't done as well as he should or indeed could have.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			He has done ok, it would be easy to argue he hasn't done as well as he should or indeed could have.
		
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Done ok ? 

He is 26 - won 4 majors ( one step away from the career slam ) , won 2 WGC , PGA plus 13 other pro tournaments so far in a short career suggests he has done a bit more than "ok" 

He has been the most successful golfer in the last 6 years and not even been a poor for ten years - all this at a time when IMO golf is full of massively talented players.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Done ok ? 

He is 26 - won 4 majors ( one step away from the career slam ) , won 2 WGC , PGA plus 13 other pro tournaments so far in a short career suggests he has done a bit more than "ok" 

He has been the most successful golfer in the last 6 years and not even been a poor for ten years - all this at a time when IMO golf is full of massively talented players.
		
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And maybe, just maybe he could have added to the majors, especially around Augusta. Sorry but there's no definitive answer and it's something we'll probably never know for definite but I (and others) simply feel that sometimes McIlroy has been too cavalier in his approach and tried too hard when a different caddy may have calmed him and shown that at times a bogey isn't the end of the world.


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Paul McGinley thinks everyone is great.
		
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You come across as argumentative and negative, you definetley wouldn't be suited to being a caddy.

It is clear yourself and others have little concept on the relationship they have. Your passing comments by being an arm chair critic without the evidence to support it.

I am not gong to waste my time on this subject anymore, do as I say and follow them in a big stage event and see how your feelings are then.

Until then, you have NO IDEA how things work.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			You come across as argumentative and negative, you definetley wouldn't be suited to being a caddy.

It is clear yourself and others have little concept on the relationship they have. Your passing comments by being an arm chair critic without the evidence to support it.

I am not gong to waste my time on this subject anymore, do as I say and follow them in a big stage event and see how your feelings are then.

Until then, you have NO IDEA how things work.
		
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Sorry but you've brought nothing further to suggest you have anything more insightful from your "experience". Give some evidence. Not too hard to do surely?


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			You come across as argumentative and negative, you definetley wouldn't be suited to being a caddy.

It is clear yourself and others have little concept on the relationship they have. Your passing comments by being an arm chair critic without the evidence to support it.

I am not gong to waste my time on this subject anymore, do as I say and follow them in a big stage event and see how your feelings are then.

Until then, you have NO IDEA how things work.
		
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  its not every day we golfing amateurs get to have a chance of picking somebodys brains who has been in the big time ,and when we do it would be nice if we had a little insight from them ,in this case it is your good self ,so rather than getting a little narked with a couple of members ,would you do the rest of us a favour and present a small snippet of life on tour .
thanks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			You come across as argumentative and negative, you definetley wouldn't be suited to being a caddy.

It is clear yourself and others have little concept on the relationship they have. Your passing comments by being an arm chair critic without the evidence to support it.

I am not gong to waste my time on this subject anymore, do as I say and follow them in a big stage event and see how your feelings are then.

Until then, you have NO IDEA how things work.
		
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Shame that you can't give a bit of insight as think there would be a lot more poster on here that would be very interested in hearing some snippets etc - hopefully you will reconsider and ignore the doubters :thup:


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## Golfmmad (Apr 13, 2016)

Why is it that when somebody comes on here with great insight and first hand experience, he gets a hard time?

It might be nice if he was shown a bit of respect and less snidey remarks.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 13, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Why is it that when somebody comes on here with great insight and first hand experience, he gets a hard time?

It might be nice if he was shown a bit of respect and less snidey remarks.
		
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Have you ever heard the expression "You have to earn respect"?  Several people have asked for some insights but none have been forthcoming.


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## Golfmmad (Apr 13, 2016)

drive4show said:



			Have you ever heard the expression "You have to earn respect"?  Several people have asked for some insights but none have been forthcoming.
		
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I'll say it again, " Give him a bit of respect ".

Why does he have to earn it.  If folk were, "Nicer" to him, he may well feel more inclined to share his experiences.


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			You come across as argumentative and negative, you definetley wouldn't be suited to being a caddy.

It is clear yourself and others have little concept on the relationship they have. Your passing comments by being an arm chair critic without the evidence to support it.

I am not gong to waste my time on this subject anymore, do as I say and follow them in a big stage event and see how your feelings are then.

Until then, you have NO IDEA how things work.
		
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Ha ha didn't you know I used to be a USPGA tour caddie, but I don't like to talk about it either.
&#128077;


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## richy (Apr 13, 2016)

Why do people keep saying he's "strong minded?" I think he's quite the opposite otherwise he wouldn't appear to throw the towel in when things weren't going his way.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 13, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			I'll say it again, " Give him a bit of respect ".

Why does he have to earn it.  If folk were, "Nicer" to him, he may well feel more inclined to share his experiences.
		
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Well I could just as easily say I have played on tour, won events, Majors etc but if I don't give any more insight why should anyone pay attention to what I have to say?

Did I mention I'm an American billionaire with a string of golf courses around the world?


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			I'll say it again, " Give him a bit of respect ".

Why does he have to earn it.  If folk were, "Nicer" to him, he may well feel more inclined to share his experiences.
		
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Seriously he claims to be a caddie not the queen, get over yourself.


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## Golfmmad (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Seriously he claims to be a caddie not the queen, get over yourself.
		
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You see, this is what I mean - be a bit "Nicer".


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

I caddied for 10 months, multiple tour winner.

On the whole it was an enjoyable experience, can be political and hostile for outsiders, caddies stick together and the players do their thing. It is a very tight circle and found it quite surreal seeing your idols up close and trying to contain my excitement.

On paper I ticked the boxes, experienced amatuer caddy, play around scratch and have a relaxed and analytical personality. The opportuntity presented itself by chance but I took advantage of the situation and was available for a short period of employment which suited us both. 

I learned a lot, listened a lot and it gave me motivation to improve. 

I'll answer any questions if I can contribute to the matter.


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			You see, this is what I mean - be a bit "Nicer".
		
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I am being nice &#128537;


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## Golfmmad (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I caddied for 10 months, multiple tour winner.

On the whole it was an enjoyable experience, can be political and hostile for outsiders, caddies stick together and the players do their thing. It is a very tight circle and found it quite surreal seeing your idols up close and trying to contain my excitement.

On paper I ticked the boxes, experienced amatuer caddy, play around scratch and have a relaxed and analytical personality. The opportuntity presented itself by chance but I took advantage of the situation and was available for a short period of employment which suited us both. 

I learned a lot, listened a lot and it gave me motivation to improve. 

I'll answer any questions if I can contribute to the matter.
		
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Thanks for that Scratch Lefty, but you do realise that it probably won't be enough for some on here.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I caddied for 10 months, multiple tour winner.

On the whole it was an enjoyable experience, can be political and hostile for outsiders, caddies stick together and the players do their thing. It is a very tight circle and found it quite surreal seeing your idols up close and trying to contain my excitement.

On paper I ticked the boxes, experienced amatuer caddy, play around scratch and have a relaxed and analytical personality. The opportuntity presented itself by chance but I took advantage of the situation and was available for a short period of employment which suited us both. 

I learned a lot, listened a lot and it gave me motivation to improve. 

I'll answer any questions if I can contribute to the matter.
		
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Thank you, that wasn't difficult?  :thup:


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			I caddied for 10 months, multiple tour winner.

On the whole it was an enjoyable experience, can be political and hostile for outsiders, caddies stick together and the players do their thing. It is a very tight circle and found it quite surreal seeing your idols up close and trying to contain my excitement.

On paper I ticked the boxes, experienced amatuer caddy, play around scratch and have a relaxed and analytical personality. The opportuntity presented itself by chance but I took advantage of the situation and was available for a short period of employment which suited us both. 

I learned a lot, listened a lot and it gave me motivation to improve. 

I'll answer any questions if I can contribute to the matter.
		
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Ok, sorry but I don't believe you.


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

The point being, what you see on TV does not correlate to real life situation and being in the moment. 

Could Rory have a better caddy? Possibly. 

Does he need need a better caddy? In my opinion no. 

Does Rory want JP on the bag? 100% yes.

There is more to it than just being on the bag.


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## Scratch lefty (Apr 13, 2016)

freddielong said:



			Ok, sorry but I don't believe you.
		
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Ha ha, pull the other one mate. 

The reason why knowledgeable and busy people don't share information and experiences on forums is because of argumentative slimeball knee droopers like your good self.

I refuse to participate any longer in this conversation and regret even briefly mentioning my experience.


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## freddielong (Apr 13, 2016)

Scratch lefty said:



			Ha ha, pull the other one mate. 

The reason why knowledgeable and busy people don't share information and experiences on forums is because of argumentative slimeball knee droopers like your good self.

I refuse to participate any longer in this conversation and regret even briefly mentioning my experience.
		
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Sorry I wasn't joking I just thought it was best to be honest with such a knowledgeable and busy person.

Are you the same 12 year old that does Kealedrivingrange ?


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## pauljames87 (Apr 14, 2016)

My uncle and I were talking about it and he thinks a pros caddy shouldn't give advise to the pro at all during the round. It would speed up the game. Amatuer have to play without it. So maybe if all caddies just carried the clubs it would speed up the game a tad


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## Soft hands (Apr 14, 2016)

This thread makes me think of when a boxer loses and he's changing trainer straight after, how often does it really improve the fighter? They're just looking for a reason to not blame themselves. 

Would Mcilroy be really playing any better with a different caddie, I doubt it. 

I may be wrong but didn't Adam Scott go back to Steve Williams for the Masters? If so how did that turn out?


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## pokerjoke (Apr 14, 2016)

drive4show said:



			Well I could just as easily say I have played on tour, won events, Majors etc but if I don't give any more insight why should anyone pay attention to what I have to say?

Did I mention I'm an American billionaire with a string of golf courses around the world?
		
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Your as about well liked:ears:


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 14, 2016)

Gentlemen.

In order to stop the thread degenerating, as a Forum Moderator,  I have sent a PM to Scratch Lefty.
asking him to tell me his credentials so I can confirm his status as an ex tour caddie or not, I will not relate these details to anyone else, as he almost certainly wants to protect his anonymity.

So If I come back and say that the guy is Kosher, then I trust that you will believe me and treat him so.

Deal?

so can we stop any sniping remarks please

Thank you


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 14, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Gentlemen.

In order to stop the thread degenerating, as a Forum Moderator,  I have sent a PM to Scratch Lefty.
asking him to tell me his credentials so I can confirm his status as an ex tour caddie or not, I will not relate these details to anyone else, as he almost certainly wants to protect his anonymity.

So If I come back and say that the guy is Kosher, then I trust that you will believe me and treat him so.

Deal?

so can we stop any sniping remarks please

Thank you
		
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That is a real shame it's had to go to that lengths when people can't take someone's word for it


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 14, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Your as about well liked:ears:
		
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PhilTheFragger said:



			Gentlemen.

In order to stop the thread degenerating, as a Forum Moderator,  I have sent a PM to Scratch Lefty.
asking him to tell me his credentials so I can confirm his status as an ex tour caddie or not, I will not relate these details to anyone else, as he almost certainly wants to protect his anonymity.

So If I come back and say that the guy is Kosher, then I trust that you will believe me and treat him so.

Deal?

so can we stop any sniping remarks please

Thank you
		
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I'll send you my credentials as well Phil so you can pass them on to PJ   :thup:


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## Golfmmad (Apr 14, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That is a real shame it's had to go to that lengths when people can't take someone's word for it
		
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 ^ ditto ^


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 14, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Gentlemen.

In order to stop the thread degenerating, as a Forum Moderator,  I have sent a PM to Scratch Lefty.
asking him to tell me his credentials so I can confirm his status as an ex tour caddie or not, I will not relate these details to anyone else, as he almost certainly wants to protect his anonymity.

So If I come back and say that the guy is Kosher, then I trust that you will believe me and treat him so.

Deal?

so can we stop any sniping remarks please

Thank you
		
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Unsurprisingly he wants nothing more to do with the forum after the mauling he has received at the hands of certain members .

Why is it that when we get someone with the inside track on a subject, that they are disbelieved, these guys do not want publicity, in fact publicity might hinder their chances of future work.

At the moment I am disgusted with the attitude that some members have displayed and hope that those concerned take a hard look at themselves

Thread closed


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