# Turning negative angle of attack to positive angle of attack



## sawtooth (Mar 20, 2017)

I have a negative angle of attack on a driver swing of about -5 degrees, verified a couple of times on different launch monitors.

Has anybody successfully gone from say -5ve to +5ve and if so how did you achieve this? How did your ball flight and distance change as a result?

I've tried teeing the ball up a little higher and placing it more forward in my stance but ball striking is not as I would like so invariably go back to what I know. I found its not as easy as that so probably missing something or maybe I just need to practice a load more and not to expect results too quickly.

Distance is OK the way I am but I would like a better, higher and more consistent ball flight plus any extra yards off the tee would be welcome too.


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## ger147 (Mar 20, 2017)

I haven't got anywhere near +5 yet but I've went to -4 or -5 to about +1.  Been working on it now for over a year and have just kept plugging away with tee high, firing left hip instead of sliding and practice, practice, practice.

Distance is up about 20 yards and consistency is improving but still a work in progress.


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## Region3 (Mar 20, 2017)

From my limited knowledge, you want your sternum behind the ball (i.e. Further away from target than the ball) at impact, because that is level with the bottom of your swing arc, and you want to hit the ball after that.

If you're not used to it, setting up with the correct upper body tilt away from the target feels very odd indeed.


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## garyinderry (Mar 20, 2017)

Do you hit fades sawtooth?


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## One Planer (Mar 20, 2017)

Can I ask why you want to change?


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 20, 2017)

Region3 said:



			From my limited knowledge, you want your sternum behind the ball (i.e. Further away from target than the ball) at impact, because that is level with the bottom of your swing arc, and you want to hit the ball after that.

If you're not used to it, setting up with the correct upper body tilt away from the target feels very odd indeed.
		
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This is word for word what my pro has done with me.
Went for driver fitting was -4 best I can do is +1 
Dont put ball forward in stance as it causes mis*****.
Ball should be left nipple logo on shirt tilt upper body away from target.
Rythm is the key 
gained 25yds and accuracy has improved but best of all ball flight is higher .


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## sawtooth (Mar 20, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Do you hit fades sawtooth?
		
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Mostly fades at the moment, certainly easier for me to move the ball left to right with the driver currently. I don't have a consistent shape with it that's part of the problem really.


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## garyinderry (Mar 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			Mostly fades at the moment, certainly easier for me to move the ball left to right with the driver currently. I don't have a consistent shape with it that's part of the problem really.
		
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You are hitting down on the ball with a leftways path.  You have to swing up and out to the right to get a positive angle of attack. 

Its easier said that done.


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## sawtooth (Mar 20, 2017)

One Planer said:



			Can I ask why you want to change?
		
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A +ve angle of attack with driver is optimal (so I am led to believe).  

I'm hoping for better efficiency so I can swing more within myself and maintain/improve distance of the tee.  Also it has become more difficult to hit draws with the driver so it might help with that also.


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## sawtooth (Mar 20, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			You are hitting down on the ball with a leftways path.  You have to swing up and out to the right to get a positive angle of attack. 

Its easier said that done.
		
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I know that I can swing out to in on occasions and of late have been making a conscious effort to attack the ball from the inside more. This has been reasonably successful with irons, rescue and fairway woods.

However with driver its not so easy. I get a low trajectory when I try this , it tells me that I am still not hitting up on the ball although the shape may have changed from fade to draw. I have always felt more comfortable with the ball nearer to the middle of my stance versus inside my left foot where I know it should be with driver.


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## the_coach (Mar 20, 2017)

sawtooth said:



			I have a negative angle of attack on a driver swing of about -5 degrees, verified a couple of times on different launch monitors.

Has anybody successfully gone from say -5ve to +5ve and if so how did you achieve this? How did your ball flight and distance change as a result?

I've tried teeing the ball up a little higher and placing it more forward in my stance but ball striking is not as I would like so invariably go back to what I know. I found its not as easy as that so probably missing something or maybe I just need to practice a load more and not to expect results too quickly.

Distance is OK the way I am but I would like a better, higher and more consistent ball flight plus any extra yards off the tee would be welcome too.
		
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with the folks have worked with with a negative driver AoA often times it starts with some things that are there around set-up posture/ball position plus also how transition starts 

there for sure are certain drills that can help change to at least a level or +AoA but for them to work posture/ball position/tee height has to be in a decent ball park area

around an average near -5Âº is for sure a tad oversteep & will push up the spin rate


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## the_coach (Mar 21, 2017)

without being able to see set-up or swing but as a single digit index player it's maybes possible that ball position is a tad back but would hazard a guess that a big contributor to the -AoA is either the upper body & head moving laterally left from transition which puts the low point of the swing arc target side of the ball

if looking at folks who do this from face-on viewpoint what you'd see at an impact still frame would be if you drew a line up the outside of the lead leg & on up the outside of the lead side of the upper body that line is goin to be either at or pretty close to perpendicular/straight so there's no or virtually no secondary spine tilt into or at impact the shoulders would be pretty close to being on a level
in essence if at set-up you drew a circle around the head position come impact the head would also have moved a fair ways to left to target side so to the center chest so head more level even further forwards of the ball position

other ways with a better player the -AoA can be more common is if folks 'handle drag' so moving the handle a good ways linear to left which overly maintains shaft angle so there's a bunch of forwards lean to the shaft which then has the club head traveling downwards into impact
and of course can be a combination of these things

say folks pretty good with short irons maybes take a good bunch of real estate with the strike this would tend to indicate that the stuff have been speaking to above is why the driver is being delivered with negative attack

if working around changing this to and "up + AoA" ball position real important along with set-up for sure but what tends to be more important is the things happening from transition & into the downswing

_with a driver & a +AoA the low point is some inches trail side of the ball and as the clubhead moves upwards it also has to travel leftfield on the arc 
_
so if get to a point to have a +AoA with a decent center strike location and the ball is tending to go straight leftfield or even starting left drawing left - don't immediately think the motion is wrong it's just a case of the natural movement within the swings arc just need to point the 'arc' so body alignments & club face to rightfield at set-up


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## sawtooth (Mar 21, 2017)

the_coach said:



			without being able to see set-up or swing but as a single digit index player it's maybes possible that ball position is a tad back but would hazard a guess that a big contributor to the -AoA is either the upper body & head moving laterally left from transition which puts the low point of the swing arc target side of the ball

if looking at folks who do this from face-on viewpoint what you'd see at an impact still frame would be if you drew a line up the outside of the lead leg & on up the outside of the lead side of the upper body that line is goin to be either at or pretty close to perpendicular/straight so there's no or virtually no secondary spine tilt into or at impact the shoulders would be pretty close to being on a level
in essence if at set-up you drew a circle around the head position come impact the head would also have moved a fair ways to left to target side so to the center chest so head more level even further forwards of the ball position

other ways with a better player the -AoA can be more common is if folks 'handle drag' so moving the handle a good ways linear to left which overly maintains shaft angle so there's a bunch of forwards lean to the shaft which then has the club head traveling downwards into impact
and of course can be a combination of these things

say folks pretty good with short irons maybes take a good bunch of real estate with the strike this would tend to indicate that the stuff have been speaking to above is why the driver is being delivered with negative attack

if working around changing this to and "up + AoA" ball position real important along with set-up for sure but what tends to be more important is the things happening from transition & into the downswing

_with a driver & a +AoA the low point is some inches trail side of the ball and as the clubhead moves upwards it also has to travel leftfield on the arc 
_
so if get to a point to have a +AoA with a decent center strike location and the ball is tending to go straight leftfield or even starting left drawing left - don't immediately think the motion is wrong it's just a case of the natural movement within the swings arc just need to point the 'arc' so body alignments & club face to rightfield at set-up
		
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Thanks very much coach for the information.
I will film and post my swing soon so you can see what is going on.

I'm not a good short game player and of late my pitches 100 yards in are fady and I have.been taking a bit too much divot. 

I feel the same issues with driving are going through the bag. Scores are suffering and handicap is on the rise!

Will try to post vids this weekend. Ta.


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## bobmac (Mar 21, 2017)

The swing path and the angle of attack are linked together so if your are out to in, you will also be steep.
Did I read correctly that you prefer to hit your driver with the ball in the centre of your stance?


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## sawtooth (Mar 21, 2017)

bobmac said:



			The swing path and the angle of attack are linked together so if your are out to in, you will also be steep.
Did I read correctly that you prefer to hit your driver with the ball in the centre of your stance?
		
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Yes Bob it feels more comfortable or natural. To me to it feels forward in the stance and it probably is a tad left of center but not as far forward as it should be. I will try to post vids soon.


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## Foxholer (Mar 21, 2017)

I'd suggest you try (on/in the range) teeing it up on the highest tee possible (4" is the max I believe) - and as far forward in your stance as you can - just inside the leading heel should be about right!

This is likely to 'naturally' make you change your angle of attack - at least! 

Some of the out-to-in could well disappear as well, but there's possibly/probably some other issues (perhaps like early extension, balance, or 'simply' sequencing) having an effect too!

The above only applies to Driver btw!


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