# Taylormade : Jetspeed



## AyrshireGolfer (Nov 11, 2013)

Just seen on Twitter they are having a launch event in Vegas for their "new" range of Drivers, Fairways and Hybrids called Jetspeed. 

Can't be more than 3 months since the SLDR and I am sure the R1 came out this year as well along with RBZ stage 2.

Taking the p*ss much?!?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

AyrshireGolfer said:



			Just seen on Twitter they are having a launch event in Vegas for their "new" range of Drivers, Fairways and Hybrids called Jetspeed. 

Can't be more than 3 months since the SLDR and I am sure the R1 came out this year as well along with RBZ stage 2.

Taking the p*ss much?!?

View attachment 8214

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It's next years model to replace the RBZ stage 2


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## dotty001 (Nov 11, 2013)

Oh god not sure if that's worse than rocket balls !! But if I hit it and it went miles it wouldn't stop me buying it


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm saying nothing


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Think the name is better than a lot of their latest efforts TBH. However another new release!! Wont be long before these are outdated either


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## AyrshireGolfer (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's next years model to replace the RBZ stage 2
		
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I did see all the R1 and RBZ Stage 2 stuff pop up on Fore24.co.uk over the past week or so, but thought this was due to the SLDR release.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 11, 2013)

Sale on RBZ Stage 2 coming up then.  I for one applaud TM for this as they are letting us punters have existing models which are virtually the latest up to date technology at a big discount when they release new versions.  

And if you buy TM and expect them to be the latest and greatest for longer than a few months then you are the mug.  But if you play the game then you can get some good value gear.  Don't knock it.


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## patricks148 (Nov 11, 2013)

TM marketing is getting worse, whats the bald guy taking a photo in the back ground all about?


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## AyrshireGolfer (Nov 11, 2013)

You can pick up an R11 driver for Â£70/Â£80.

Can't be much difference in technology from the R11 through to the SLDR?


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## Bucket92 (Nov 11, 2013)

Jetspeed?! Do they think only 8 year olds buy their clubs now?! What a joke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Well at least it gives people something to whinge about.

Can't see the problem.

 If people don't want to buy the club then don't - they aren't forcing anyone.


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## Robobum (Nov 11, 2013)

The sole looks like a nod back to the V Steel.

If its as good a club as that, it'll be well worth looking at.

Good to see the anti TM blinkers are back on again!!


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Robobum said:



			The sole looks like a nod back to the V Steel.

If its as good a club as that, it'll be well worth looking at.

Good to see the anti TM blinkers are back on again!! 

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V Steel now that was a club. I gave mine to my Dad as he needed a 3 wood and I went and bought myself the Burner that I currently use still regret it now and he is not willing to part


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## CMAC (Nov 11, 2013)

...and here we go again:smirk:


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## the hammer (Nov 11, 2013)

and then jetspeedIER...


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## Khamelion (Nov 11, 2013)

What is it they say about a fool and their money?


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## Hunka Turf (Nov 11, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			Sale on RBZ Stage 2 coming up then.  I for one applaud TM for this as they are letting us punters have existing models which are virtually the latest up to date technology at a big discount when they release new versions.  

And if you buy TM and expect them to be the latest and greatest for longer than a few months then you are the mug.  But if you play the game then you can get some good value gear.  Don't knock it.
		
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Exactly my thoughts. Wait a few months (weeks?) and get a great deal!


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 11, 2013)

Surely it's  Step back? Sooner have a rocket than a jet? :rofl:

Hardly surprising it is launch time for next years models. 

25% bigger sweet spot over RBZ driver.


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## jimbob.someroo (Nov 11, 2013)

Absolutely not fussed about them putting out more new clubs. Do think that 6 new drivers (R1, RBZ II, RBZ II tp, R1 Black, SLDR, JetLOLSpeed) is a bit excessive in less than a year but I'm hitting mine well and have no complaints. If someone is willing to to pay Â£300 to get an extra five yards, then the manufacturers can't be blamed. 

Simple supply and demand, if people are buying it, why not? If you're in the market for a new driver, surely the more options the better? If not, then worrying about this release seems entirely pointless as it doesn't affect you. So I'll stop


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I'm saying nothing 

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:rofl::rofl: well done,this must have been really hard for you:thup:
All I'm going to say is they look good.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 11, 2013)

Looks like the slot has been reworked. Hopefully the shaft options will be better... They don't need to update the head just release some funky shafts and they will get more sales and respect  ... Anyway I cannot afford to buy any more sticks, I have promised myself a deep milled SC del mar when I get a job. But the way it's going at the moment I can't see it being in my chosen field  .


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## SAPCOR1 (Nov 11, 2013)

Nice looking clubs and will go well with the new Balliztik 3 piece ball no doubt


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## Jdb2005 (Nov 11, 2013)

Lads, who actually cares?


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## m10johnson (Nov 11, 2013)

You have got to be kidding me


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## Andy808 (Nov 11, 2013)

Looks like an old design in a new package and a snazzy name. Got to be new irons next month (week) then!


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## Scrindle (Nov 11, 2013)

I can't wait to hear Mark Crossfield's thoughts on YouTube!!!!


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

What it must be like to be a tm share holder. Cha ching


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## DAVEYBOY (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm speechless


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Scrindle said:



			I can't wait to hear Mark Crossfield's thoughts on YouTube!!!! 

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I am sure he will give it is good a review as he has in his 50+ other TM reviews. Shame really as they do make some good kit


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm starting to think TM are releasing new gear just to wind up the forum.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm waiting until they bring out a uranium driver with kryptonite shaft. Something a bit more 'glow in the darkier'


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm starting to think TM are releasing new gear just to wind up the forum.
		
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Or just wind up Anti TM people

I will await the outrage when Ping release their two sets of irons and 3 drivers next year - will expect the same uproar


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## AyrshireGolfer (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or just wind up Anti TM people

I will await the outrage when Ping release their two sets of irons and 3 drivers next year - will expect the same uproar
		
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At least Ping release them at the same time and under their 2013 range.

TM seem to launch a new "longer" and better piece of
equipment every 3 months.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 11, 2013)

This seems to be a fairly recent thing with TM, I had both R7 and R9 drivers and I'm sure they remained current for a couple of years each?


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or just wind up Anti TM people

I will await the outrage when Ping release their two sets of irons and 3 drivers next year - will expect the same uproar
		
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I'm not fussed either way mate,they can release new clubs every wk for me. Can't see why it would bother folk tbh.


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or just wind up Anti TM people

I will await the outrage when Ping release their two sets of irons and 3 drivers next year - will expect the same uproar
		
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Don't hold your breath!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

AyrshireGolfer said:



			At least Ping release them at the same time and under their 2013 range.

TM seem to launch a new "longer" and better piece of
equipment every 3 months.
		
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Did ping release the anser the G25 and the S55 all at the same time this year ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm not fussed either way mate,they can release new clubs every wk for me. Can't see why it would bother folk tbh.
		
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My exact thinking as well mate

I'll try them out - if I like them and they improve a part of my game I may purchase them


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## shewy (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks Tm just picked up a stage 2 hybrid for Â£45!!


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## Imurg (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did ping release the anser the G25 and the S55 all at the same time this year ?
		
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No
But at least the G25 replaced a range that was 18 months old and the S55 a club that was nearly 3 years old....


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## vkurup (Nov 11, 2013)

Where do I sign up?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did ping release the anser the G25 and the S55 all at the same time this year ?
		
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They did but deferred the I range by several months and every range has an 18-24 month product cycle hence the I 25 due out in February and then the next G incarnation at the back end of the year. Titleist do a similar thing and I cannot see how TM can justify a new product launch every 6-12 months. Are they really revolutionary each time?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			They did but deferred the I range by several months and every range has an 18-24 month product cycle hence the I 25 due out in February and then the next G incarnation at the back end of the year. Titleist do a similar thing and I cannot see how TM can justify a new product launch every 6-12 months. Are they really revolutionary each time?
		
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If people buy them then they justify launching new products every year.

The demand is obviously there.

No one is forced to buy it so can't see the problem


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## duncan mackie (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If people buy them then they justify launching new products every year.

The demand is obviously there.

No one is forced to buy it so can't see the problem
		
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this, and everyone seems to be ignoring the distributors who actually fuel the model

what I do know, as a 'user' is that every head I've used feels different, and that different heads (anyone's) suit different people - from confidence to compensation.  so to me they seem to be doing everyone a favour


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## virtuocity (Nov 11, 2013)

Brilliant news for smart consumers.

The Stage 2 range will soon be mega cheap.  Even once-a-month golfers will soon be able to justify spending money on Stage One gear as it will be next to nothing.


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## NST (Nov 11, 2013)

Soon your latest TM purchase will be out of date by the time you've paid for it and got it home. This may souns silly, but one thing that stopped me buying TM when I got my new irons last week 
was that they could be out of date by Christmas.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Does it matter if they are "out of date" 

Surely the main thing is the results you get from them 

I got my TM irons over 2 and half years ago - I don't count them as out of date and certainly get the results I want from them and do to feel the need to upgrade them


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## malek988 (Nov 11, 2013)

happydays thatll be the stage 2 at a nice price, happy days!!


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## Sweep (Nov 12, 2013)

shewy said:



			Thanks Tm just picked up a stage 2 hybrid for Â£45!!
		
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Which makes you wonder how much they actually cost to produce. Mass produced in China, my betting would be around Â£8


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 12, 2013)

Scrindle said:



			I can't wait to hear Mark Crossfield's thoughts on YouTube!!!! 

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I am guessing he will say what he always says with TM reviews.  That they are good clubs and well worth a look if you are in the market for new clubs.  But he will say be a bit sceptical of the marketing claims, and he may well prove again that the speed slot does not actually do anything as he will hit a club by TM with the speed slot and a club by another manufacturer without a speed slot, both with the same loft.  And both will go just about the same distance. And they he will say again that the number on the bottom of the club is meaningless but the loft mostly influences how far the club will go.


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## dufferman (Nov 12, 2013)

I have all TM stuff - not because I have to have TM, but because the cost compared to other clubs was so low. I picked up my Burner 2.0 5 wood for Â£80, which I thought was a bargain. The Rocketballz irons were cheap as there were 1 or 2 newer models out. The only thing in my bag that is a 'current' TM club is the SLDR driver - thanks to GM for that one 

I think it's great that you can get modern clubs cheaper just because they are 'last months' models!!


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## cookelad (Nov 12, 2013)

So soon the "old" adage will read that you're never more than 6 feet from a rat, a former Chelsea manager or a 2nd-hand TaylorMade driver?


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## ger147 (Nov 12, 2013)

I have to be honest and say that I'm always amused by the folk who rant about the latest release and how that affects the re-sale value of their own clubs or makes their own clubs out of date etc. etc.  The last time I checked, new golf clubs aren't gas, electricity or petrol i.e. we don't HAVE to buy them!!

But I also have to mention the name.  As a grown man in my 40's, I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy a golf club with the name Jetspeed.  It's bad enough shaving with a Fusion razor but at least I get to do that in the privacy of my own bathroom and my wife actually does the buying, but pulling out my new driver on the 1st tee and my mate says "new driver Gerry?  What is it?", and I have to reply "a TM Jetspeed".  I think not!!!


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 12, 2013)

ger147 said:



			But I also have to mention the name.  As a grown man in my 40's, I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy a golf club with the name Jetspeed.  It's bad enough shaving with a Fusion razor but at least I get to do that in the privacy of my own bathroom and my wife actually does the buying, but pulling out my new driver on the 1st tee and my mate says "new driver Gerry?  What is it?", and I have to reply "a TM Jetspeed".  I think not!!! 

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too launch your lethal balls (or even rocketballz) straight down the middle ....... :mmm:


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Justin Rose's Driver in the last year or so...

Oct 2012: RBZ
Mar 2013: R11
Jun 2013: R1
Aug 2013: SLDR

4 different drivers in under a year


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Justin Rose's Driver in the last year or so...

Oct 2012: RBZ
Mar 2013: R11
Jun 2013: R1
Aug 2013: SLDR

4 different drivers in under a year 

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And ?


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And ?
		
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Nothing really, I just though it was interesting to see how much change he has had.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Nothing really, I just though it was interesting to see how much change he has had.
		
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Won the US Open so I'm guessing it's working for him.


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## CMAC (Nov 12, 2013)

ger147 said:



			I have to be honest and say that I'm always amused by the folk who rant about the latest release and how that affects the re-sale value of their own clubs or makes their own clubs out of date etc. etc.  The last time I checked, new golf clubs aren't gas, electricity or petrol i.e. we don't HAVE to buy them!!

But I also have to mention the name.  As a grown man in my 40's, I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy a golf club with the name Jetspeed.  It's bad enough shaving with a Fusion razor but at least I get to do that in the privacy of my own bathroom and my wife actually does the buying, *but pulling out my new driver on the 1st tee and my mate says "new driver Gerry?  What is it?", and I have to reply "a TM Jetspeed".  I think not!!! *

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do what I do and name your clubs whatever you want, *you do own them* you know

My Driver is called Sally Gunnell, it's not pretty but goes for miles


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Won the US Open so I'm guessing it's working for him.
		
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Well quite which begs the question does it really make much difference?

Of further interest may be that in 2012 he was 28th in Driving Accuracy and 80th in Driving Distance. In 2013 he was 52nd in Accuracy and 27th in Distance. He's got longer by 6yds on average but misses more fairways. Of course, that could have nothing to do with the clubs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Well quite which begs the question does it really make much difference?

Of further interest may be that in 2012 he was 28th in Driving Accuracy and 80th in Driving Distance. In 2013 he was 52nd in Accuracy and 27th in Distance. He's got longer by 6yds on average but misses more fairways. Of course, that could have nothing to do with the clubs.
		
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And it could be more than stats for him and more about comfort and confidence in the club. He won't change just for the sake of it.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 12, 2013)

ger147 said:



			But I also have to mention the name.  As a grown man in my 40's, I'm not sure I could bring myself to buy a golf club with the name Jetspeed.  It's bad enough shaving with a Fusion razor but at least I get to do that in the privacy of my own bathroom and my wife actually does the buying, but pulling out my new driver on the 1st tee and my mate says "new driver Gerry?  What is it?", and I have to reply "a TM Jetspeed".  I think not!!! 

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Perhaps you are worrying too much about a name?  Just say it's the latest TM, make a joke about it being out of date in 3 weeks time and then wipe the smile off your mates face by striping one down the middle.  Surely no one should care what a golf club is called as long as it works?


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And it could be more than stats for him and more about comfort and confidence in the club. He won't change just for the sake of it.
		
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Well this is what got me wondering whether he was in someway contracted to use the new clubs? It would seem odd, but then it seems odd that he would voluntarily choose to change so often, he surely can't just prefer every new model that comes out?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Well this is what got me wondering whether he was in someway contracted to use the new clubs? It would seem odd, but then it seems odd that he would voluntarily choose to change so often, he surely can't just prefer every new model that comes out?
		
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Why not ? 

Why can't he prefer each new model

It's the R11 that's the interesting one ? Why did he go back to a two year old model and not to the R11S. Also where did you get your info from.

It appeared he used the R11 is March 2012


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why not ? 

Why can't he prefer each new model

It's the R11 that's the interesting one ? Why did he go back to a two year old model and not to the R11S. Also where did you get your info from.

It appeared he used the R11 is March 2012
		
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I got the information from various websites that have done "what's in the bag" features on him at various points, which could be wrong. His own website says he uses the RBZ so I am guessing that's out of date


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Imurg said:



			No
But at least the G25 replaced a range that was 18 months old and the S55 a club that was nearly 3 years old....
		
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^ What the man with no tan said 

It's the same with most OEM's. 

Titleist 712 > 714
Mizuno 53 > 54 63 > 64
Ping S56 > S55

All done over 2 plus years. Not the 2+ weeks Taylormade seem to send out new, faster, longer kit.

That's what gripes people. Not so much the frequent releases of 'improved' equipment, but the stupid claims made by TM about getting you "_x_ yards longer.


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 12, 2013)

I would suspect the high profile team
TM ( Justin dustin Sergio and Jason day) are if not under contract under quite a bit of pressure to game the latest clubs at launch. But when non contracted pros can't get TM gear quick enough they must be doing something right that's without considering the likes of Luke Donald and Phil Mickelson having recently had/having TM gear in there bags.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I got the information from various websites that have done "what's in the bag" features on him at various points, which could be wrong. His own website says he uses the RBZ so I am guessing that's out of date 

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Mar 2013 - RBZ

http://www.gorillagolfblog.com/players/justin-rose-golf-bag-and-equipment-2013/

Mar 2012 - R11

http://www.pga.com/golf-equipment/winners-bag/whats-in-winners-golf-bags-week-march-11-2012

So possibly it's three drivers this year for Rose


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			^ What the man with no tan said 

It's the same with most OEM's. 

Titleist 712 > 714
Mizuno 53 > 54 63 > 64
Ping S56 > S55

All done over 2 plus years. Not the 2+ weeks Taylormade seem to send out new, faster, longer kit.

That's what gripes people. Not so much the frequent releases of 'improved' equipment, but the stupid claims made by TM about getting you "_x_ yards longer.
		
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That's called marketing and it's marketing that appears to be very successful

Are TM the only company to claim "extra yards"


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why not ? 

Why can't he prefer each new model
		
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Perhaps he does.

The difference his he know the TM marketing guff is BS.

He probably also understands that it's the numpty swinging the club that has more influence over anything designed on a computer in a lab will ever have when it comes to flight and direction.

Couple that to the fact he will have use of TM's vast fitting facilities and have it made and set exactly to his requirement.

So yes, perhaps he does prefer the latest kit, maybe out of personal cuirocity or through contract, who knows. The difference being he knows it's, pretty much the same driver he hit the week before. Just with different graphics and, maybe a different shaft.


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

The jetspeed is to the SLDR as the RBZs2 was to the R1.
And the RBZ was to the R11.
And the Burner was to the r9.

They are consistent, at least. They are just consistently faster than SOME other manufacturers at turning over kit.
Callaway have also had shedloads of clubs out in the last year too, and have announced an imminent competitor to the SLDR (when Phil started hitting the SLDR).

I'm not interested in their kit tbh, but for those that are, have at it.

Personally I think jetspeed is a less silly name than rocketballz.

Haven't they got a ball called superdeep? It's one step away from ballzdeep, I really hope they bring out a ball called that.  You would probably need an extra stiff shaft to get the best out of it.

Badum tish. I'm here all week, tip your waitress.


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mar 2013 - RBZ

http://www.gorillagolfblog.com/players/justin-rose-golf-bag-and-equipment-2013/

Mar 2012 - R11

http://www.pga.com/golf-equipment/winners-bag/whats-in-winners-golf-bags-week-march-11-2012

So possibly it's three drivers this year for Rose
		
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Fair enough, could have got the date wrong on the R11. It still seems like a high turnover to me though but maybe that's what he wants? Who knows


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's called marketing and it's marketing that appears to be very successful

Are TM the only company to claim "extra yards"
		
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Which is exactly my point!

Titlest, Mizuno, Ping et' al' release there kit on a rolling 2 year cycle, so yes you would expect to see some small increase in distance through improved tech.

The difference with TM is they have released *4* drivers in the space of *one year* give or take, each time the new model is longer than the one being superceeded. 

I'm sorry, but technology, especially in drivers, doesn't move that fast and is pretty much at it's limit now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Perhaps he does.

The difference his he know the TM marketing guff is BS.

He probably also understands that it's the numpty swinging the club that has more influence over anything designed on a computer in a lab will ever have when it comes to flight and direction.

Couple that to the fact he will have use of TM's vast fitting facilities and have it made and set exactly to his requirement.

So yes, perhaps he does prefer the latest kit, maybe out of personal cuirocity or through contract, who knows. The difference being he knows it's, pretty much the same driver he hit the week before. Just with different graphics and, maybe a different shaft.
		
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It is really the same driver ? 

Is the SLDR the same as the R1 ?

Spoken to plenty who would differ and say they are very different drivers - the same as the G25 is different from the Anser.

You seem very put out by marketing from TM - you call it BS so I would expect you have challenged it and proven it to be BS


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Perhaps he does.

The difference his he know the TM marketing guff is BS.

He probably also understands that it's the numpty swinging the club that has more influence over anything designed on a computer in a lab will ever have when it comes to flight and direction.

Couple that to the fact he will have use of TM's vast fitting facilities and have it made and set exactly to his requirement.

So yes, perhaps he does prefer the latest kit, maybe out of personal cuirocity or through contract, who knows. *The difference being he knows it's, pretty much the same driver he hit the week before. Just with different graphics and, maybe a different shaft.*

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This is what I was wondering, aside from the looks, how different are they really? They can't be that different under the bonnet as it were.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Fair enough, could have got the date wrong on the R11. It still seems like a high turnover to me though but maybe that's what he wants? Who knows
		
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I have had two drivers this year and when I get my new shaft it's prob three


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have had two drivers this year and when I get my new shaft it's prob three
		
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That seems like a high turnover as well


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Which is exactly my point!

Titlest, Mizuno, Ping et' al' release there kit on a rolling 2 year cycle, so yes you would expect to see some small increase in distance through improved tech.

The difference with TM is they have released *4* drivers in the space of *one year* give or take, each time the new model is longer than the one being superceeded. 

I'm sorry, but technology, especially in drivers, doesn't move that fast and is pretty much at it's limit now.
		
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Well the G series is on a yearly cycle now and understand the Titleist Drivers will be as well

The R1 wasn't marketed as "longer" than the rest it's was having one driver to fit all with it's adjustability.

Do you work in the driver design and build ? 

Maybe TM are far more advanced than anyone else - the Pro's seem to agree as they are the number one driver on tour with even other manufacturer staff players choosing their driver over others 

So what is it exactly they are doing that upsets you and other so much yet the pros seem to love


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			That seems like a high turnover as well 

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Not really - started the season with the R11 and then bought the R1


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the G series is on a yearly cycle now and understand the Titleist Drivers will be as well

The R1 wasn't marketed as "longer" than the rest it's was having one driver to fit all with it's adjustability.

Do you work in the driver design and build ? 

Maybe TM are far more advanced than anyone else - the Pro's seem to agree as they are the number one driver on tour with even other manufacturer staff players choosing their driver over others 

So what is it exactly they are doing that upsets you and other so much yet the pros seem to love
		
Click to expand...

They aren't doing anything to upset me 



Are you a rep for Taylormade or perhaps and accredited fitter?

Edit: Actually, I've just noticed you have a bag full of TM.  Now I see why you're so defensive.


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the G series is on a yearly cycle now and understand the Titleist Drivers will be as well

The R1 wasn't marketed as "longer" than the rest it's was having one driver to fit all with it's adjustability.

Do you work in the driver design and build ? 

Maybe TM are far more advanced than anyone else - the Pro's seem to agree as they are the number one driver on tour with even other manufacturer staff players choosing their driver over others 

So what is it exactly they are doing that upsets you and other so much yet the pros seem to love
		
Click to expand...

Don't give me that no.1 on tour flannel. They are number 1 on tour because they do a driver only deal for players who don't have driver in their main equipment deal. They do this so they can be no.1 on tour and market as such.

Their equipment is great I'm sure. I don't particularly have any issue with their product cycle or marketing, but lets understand what's behind it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			They aren't doing anything to upset me 



Are you a rep for Taylormade or perhaps and accredited fitter?

Edit: Actually, I've just noticed you have a bag full of TM.  Now I see why you're so defensive.
		
Click to expand...

And you have a bag with no TM so I can see why you are so negative towards them

The thing is you don't see people who use TM slating any other manufacturers on what they do - because they don't really care 

Where as non TM players seem to get very bothered when a new piece of equipment is released - you are going to use it so why get bothered by it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			Don't give me that no.1 on tour flannel. They are number 1 on tour because they do a driver only deal for players who don't have driver in their main equipment deal. They do this so they can be no.1 on tour and market as such.

Their equipment is great I'm sure. I don't particularly have any issue with their product cycle or marketing, but lets understand what's behind it.
		
Click to expand...

So why do players not pick other drivers to match their set ? 

Why did Donald go to TM and not Mizuno ?

Stenson instead of Calloway - same with Mickleson ?

They do Driver deals because there is a demand for it.


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not really - started the season with the R11 and then bought the R1
		
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And you say possibly a 3rd coming soon? Out of interest, would you normally change a couple of times a year?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			And you say possibly a 3rd coming soon? Out of interest, would you normally change a couple of times a year?
		
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A 3rd because I'm possibly changing my shaft on my R1 

I change when I find something that is worth changing

Tried the SLDR and it wasn't worth me changing


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			Don't give me that no.1 on tour flannel. They are number 1 on tour because they do a driver only deal for players who don't have driver in their main equipment deal. They do this so they can be no.1 on tour and market as such.

Their equipment is great I'm sure. I don't particularly have any issue with their product cycle or marketing, but lets understand what's behind it.
		
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To be fair, and I can't believe I am about to "defend" TM, but there has to be a reason why Non-staffers choose their drivers. The same way that a lot of Non-staffers use Scotty Cameron putters. I don't particularly like their marketing, but the R9 was a great driver and they must make decent kit if so many pro's use them.


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A 3rd because I'm possibly changing my shaft on my R1 

I change when I find something that is worth changing

Tried the SLDR and it wasn't worth me changing
		
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Fair enough


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why do players not pick other drivers to match their set ? 

Why did Donald go to TM and not Mizuno ?

Stenson instead of Calloway - same with Mickleson ?

They do Driver deals because there is a demand for it.
		
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Mickelson is a club-ho of the highest order and has a very flexible deal with Callaway.  And has had Callaway drivers in his bag this year. What he is using at any particular time is not much of a barometer.

TM got in early on the no.1 on tour thing and signed up a load of players, thy don't even require that they use a TM headcover (see Donald) because the visibility isn't important, just the numbers because they can then claim no.1 on tour.

Look at the lower ranked tour players and you will see a lot of titleist balls and taylormade drivers. It's because they get ball only and driver only deals so titleist and TM can make their no.1 on tour claims.  These guys are not marquee players for any brand so for them it's about maximising their income.

Because they got in early on this and stole a march there is little point others trying to do the same thing because the mountain is now too high to climb, it's a lot of players that need to be bought out of contracts or signed up at the end of deals over a long time.

I'm not saying they don't have a good product that performs at least as well as others. And when it does perform as well (maybe even a little better) as others and the pros can get more money for using it why wouldn't they...


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			To be fair, and I can't believe I am about to "defend" TM, but there has to be a reason why Non-staffers choose their drivers. The same way that a lot of Non-staffers use Scotty Cameron putters. I don't particularly like their marketing, but the R9 was a great driver and they must make decent kit if so many pro's use them.
		
Click to expand...

Which is, of course, exactly what they want you to think.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			Mickelson is a club-ho of the highest order and has a very flexible deal with Callaway.  And has had Callaway drivers in his bag this year. What he is using at any particular time is not much of a barometer.

TM got in early on the no.1 on tour thing and signed up a load of players, thy don't even require that they use a TM headcover (see Donald) because the visibility isn't important, just the numbers because they can then claim no.1 on tour.

Look at the lower ranked tour players and you will see a lot of titleist balls and taylormade drivers. It's because they get ball only and driver only deals so titleist and TM can make their no.1 on tour claims.  These guys are not marquee players for any brand so for them it's about maximising their income.

Because they got in early on this and stole a march there is little point others trying to do the same thing because the mountain is now too high to climb, it's a lot of players that need to be bought out of contracts or signed up at the end of deals over a long time.

I'm not saying they don't have a good product that performs at least as well as others. And when it does perform as well (maybe even a little better) as others and the pros can get more money for using it why wouldn't they...
		
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Donald is one of the best ball strikers in the world - and he picks a TM driver - and you think it's not because it's the best driver and it's not about performance for him !!

The Pros need the best equipment they can get to give them the best performance possible. 

More pros pick TM drivers because for them it's the best driver they can get their hands on. 

You can't argue with facts - the pros get to pick and they pick TM more than others in terms of drivers and Titleist in terms of balls. You can try and find any excuse possible for that but it's facts that can't be denied.


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## Rooter (Nov 12, 2013)

Yawn.TM release new clubs shocker!

Yawn. TM get slated for making money!

Interesting. When are they having a comp to get fitted? mine are out of date...


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donald is one of the best ball strikers in the world - and he picks a TM driver - and you think it's not because it's the best driver and it's not about performance for him !!

The Pros need the best equipment they can get to give them the best performance possible. 

More pros pick TM drivers because for them it's the best driver they can get their hands on. 

You can't argue with facts - the pros get to pick and they pick TM more than others in terms of drivers and Titleist in terms of balls. You can try and find any excuse possible for that but it's facts that can't be denied.
		
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Hook, line and sinker. Marketers dream.
Donald is, for a pro, a poor driver of the golf ball. Should we blame his TM driver? (that he is paid to play), of course not.

The irony of this whole argument is that I'm not even anti-TM. Look beyond the marketing and they make good kit. But please do look beyond the marketing.


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## BTatHome (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey, where did you get all that info on what TM do with their player contracts, and their strategy for signing pro's? Seems like an awful lot of information that strictly speaking wouldn't have come straight from TM.

Always seems to be a lot of info around about player contracts etc that simply can't be verified, and so impossible for people to refute, and so almost becomes reality.


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## TomC (Nov 12, 2013)

Have you seen our First Look gallery of the JetSpeed?

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/equip...34539/1/0/taylormade-jetspeed-first-look.html


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			Hook, line and sinker. Marketers dream.
Donald is, for a pro, a poor driver of the golf ball. Should we blame his TM driver? (that he is paid to play), of course not.

The irony of this whole argument is that I'm not even anti-TM. Look beyond the marketing and they make good kit. But please do look beyond the marketing.
		
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:lol:

Trust me I don't give a flying monkeys about marketing or what they say - I'm old enough to make up my own mind. No one has been sucked in but I know facts when I see it. 

I can judge for myself golf clubs when I put them in my hand - regardless of any marketing they produce.

But I do know they produce one of the best drivers on the market and that's why they are picked by more pros than other drivers and that's nothing to do with marketing,


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

I've picked up bits and bobs from other forums that have a lot more info on this stuff, and also got some info from the ping tour truck guys when I was on the GM/ping putter fitting earlier this year.
I don't have any direct sources to TM.


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## Rooter (Nov 12, 2013)

TomC said:



			Have you seen our First Look gallery of the JetSpeed?

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/equip...34539/1/0/taylormade-jetspeed-first-look.html

Click to expand...

I think they look fab, replacement for the RBZ2 range. keen to see how the improved speed pocket works (look at the speedblades irons) on the fairways woods.. Has the Driver got one Tom? did you get any pics of the underside sent?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			I've picked up bits and bobs from other forums that have a lot more info on this stuff, and also got some info from the ping tour truck guys when I was on the GM/ping putter fitting earlier this year.
I don't have any direct sources to TM.
		
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So your get your info about TM players from another forum and the Ping Tour Truck :lol:

The last part of your statement is the crucial part 

"I don't have any direct sources to TM"


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

TomC said:



			Have you seen our First Look gallery of the JetSpeed?

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/equip...34539/1/0/taylormade-jetspeed-first-look.html

Click to expand...

Might give the hybrids a go - look pretty decent.


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## Rooter (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So your get your info about TM players from another forum and the Ping Tour Truck :lol:
		
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I chuckled also!!

and LiverpoolPhil, your new avatar is my desktop wallpaper on my laptop!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Rooter said:



			I chuckled also!!

and LiverpoolPhil, your new avatar is my desktop wallpaper on my laptop!
		
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Impressive par 3 isn't it.

Hopefully one day will get to play it


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So your get your info about TM players from another forum and the Ping Tour Truck :lol:

The last part of your statement is the crucial part 

"I don't have any direct sources to TM"
		
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I assume you have verifiable sources demonstrating with numbers that TM drivers are better than competitors products for each player that uses them?  

I'm not claiming to have inside info here, just offering an alternative explanation for the no.1 on tour thing.


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## BTatHome (Nov 12, 2013)

Rooter said:



			I think they look fab, replacement for the RBZ2 range. keen to see how the improved speed pocket works (look at the speedblades irons) on the fairways woods.. Has the Driver got one Tom? did you get any pics of the underside sent?
		
Click to expand...

From elsewhere ....


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			To be fair, and I can't believe I am about to "defend" TM, *but there has to be a reason why Non-staffers choose their drivers*.
		
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There is:









$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			I assume you have verifiable sources demonstrating with numbers that TM drivers are better than competitors products for each player that uses them?  

I'm not claiming to have inside info here, just offering an alternative explanation for the no.1 on tour thing.
		
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From talking to a few pros and a few coaches of pros - including one pro that was offered a lot of money to switch to TM.


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			There is:









$$$$$$$$$$$

Click to expand...

And you think they would use them if they were no good?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			There is:









$$$$$$$$$$$

Click to expand...

What about players where it isn't all about the money 

Did Mickleson switch to the SLDR because of money ? Same with Donald.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about players where it isn't all about the money 

Did Mickleson switch to the SLDR because of money ? Same with Donald.
		
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Yes.... prove me wrong


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## NWJocko (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about players where it isn't all about the money 

Did Mickleson switch to the SLDR because of money ? Same with Donald.
		
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No, not the top players although Donald will get paid for it on top of his Mizuno money (pocket money to him though)

They do pay people (lesser known pro's) to use only their drivers though so they can have the "number 1" to use in Marketing.

Their drivers are very good which helps.

TM are an incredibly good marketing machine with a good product.  I don't have any of their stuff but fair play to them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Yes.... prove me wrong 

Click to expand...

Surely you need to back up your statement first.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely you need to back up your statement first.
		
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Why? You asked a question, I gave you my answer (opinion).

If you wish to argue the point further, you would need to justify why my answer is wrong.


That's how a debate works.


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			And you think they would use them if they were no good?
		
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Where has anyone said they are no good?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Why? You asked a question, I gave you my answer (opinion).

If you wish to argue the point further, you would need to justify why my answer is wrong.


That's how a debate works.
		
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Because i mentioned two players where money isnt an issue for them - my opinion 

Hence why i believe you are wrong about it jsut being about the money and its more about the performance.

Im also going to suggest that Big Phil has no contract with TM so is going no money from trying the SLDR


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because i mentioned two players where money isnt an issue for them - my opinion 

Hence why i believe you are wrong about it jsut being about the money and its more about the performance.

*Im also going to suggest that Big Phil has no contract with TM so is going no money from trying the SLDR*

Click to expand...


http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equi.../phil-mickelson-presidents-cup-equipment.html

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2013/1...-callaway-taylormade-sldr-presidents-cup-2013


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equi.../phil-mickelson-presidents-cup-equipment.html

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2013/1...-callaway-taylormade-sldr-presidents-cup-2013

Click to expand...

If its just about the money i would how much TM paid him


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## NWJocko (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If its just about the money i would how much TM paid him 

Click to expand...

I don't think anyones saying its ALL about the money, particularly for the top pros.

For the lesser known though it will have a strong bearing.  All pro's could probably drive equally well with a driver from any top manufacturer so, if you're not earning the mega money that the guys at the top are, why not get paid for it?

TM also has the advantage that its drivers are as good as anything else.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because i mentioned two players where money isnt an issue for them - my opinion 

Hence why i believe you are wrong about it jsut being about the money and its more about the performance.

Im also going to suggest that Big Phil has no contract with TM so is going no money from trying the SLDR
		
Click to expand...

Are you, seriously, suggesting that Taylormade driver perform significantly and measureably better than any of the other OEM's on tour? And that's why non-contracted players, Like Donald and Mickleson use them?

If you seriously think that, then you are clearly a marketing mans dream.

Here's a few extracts from an article, endorsed by TM and how they have "Risen to the top"




*The first key to TaylorMade's success was getting as many clubs as possible into the hands of PGA Tour pros*. When King took over in 2000, he made that a top priority. In the eyes of golf consumers, *there's no better validation of a club's worth than its use by the pros*. For companies, building a Tour staff is expensive. Manning an equipment van at every event on every major pro tour costs big bucks. *So does paying top players millions of dollars a year for their endorsements*. In 2001, TaylorMade wrested the title of No. 1 driver on Tour away from Titleist, according to the Darrell Survey, and it has creatively exploited that advantage ever since. At this week's AT&T T -0.40% Pebble Beach National Pro-Am, for example, TaylorMade players such as Dustin Johnson, Retief Goosen and Robert Garrigus will be wearing high-visibility yellow bucket hats, at least part of the time, to promote the company's latest RocketBladez irons.
		
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Also:




			That name, RocketBladez, and the related golf-ball name, RocketBallz, is an another example of TaylorMade's aggressive style. It's a bit daring, given golf's staid ethos, but it's fun and the brand has killed in the marketplace. Trivial? Yes, but probably not as trivial as painting woods white. That, too, was perceived as a gamble when TaylorMade launched its R11 drivers in 2011. *In an interview, King acknowledged that there wasn't dramatic new technology in the R11s*. But the move to white was a home run, goosing TaylorMade's share of the driver market by 8%. *"In our wildest dreams, we never imagined we would sell as many as we did," "In our wildest dreams, we never imagined we would sell as many as we did," *he said. *In fact, the company had a contingency plan to revert to black drivers within six months, had the white experiment failed*.
		
Click to expand...





			The third leg of TaylorMade's success, besides Tour support and bold marketing, is ceaseless introduction of new products. Thanks to a huge research budget that golf-company analyst Casey Alexander of Gilford Securities estimates at around $30 million a year, *TaylorMade floods the market with Next New Things every six months or so*. The R1, for example, comes in only one club head (reducing manufacturing and distribution costs) that is adjustable from 8 degrees to 12 degrees. (Nike, Cobra and Adams Golf, which TaylorMade acquired last year, also have new, one-head adjustable-loft drivers.)
		
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Here's the article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324900204578286173274533026

This article, clearly shows the level of endorsement TM have invested into getting there brand recognised, and, based on the above the pay top dollar to do it.

From a manufacturers point of view, golf is like football, is all about advertising your brand. Why do you think Taylormade decided, with the R11, to start painting their drivers white? The answer is simple, to distinguish them from every other driver on tour, on your T.V screen. Nothing to do with glare or alignment, advertising pure and simple as admitted by their CEO in the above article.

Most of the above article includes quotes from Taylormades CEO. Including the section on endorsements.

Would you still like to carry on the debate as to _why_ so may tour players use TM woods?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

NWJocko said:



			I don't think anyones saying its ALL about the money, particularly for the top pros.

For the lesser known though it will have a strong bearing.  All pro's could probably drive equally well with a driver from any top manufacturer so, if you're not earning the mega money that the guys at the top are, why not get paid for it?

TM also has the advantage that its drivers are as good as anything else.
		
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As with anything is life mate the money will be a factor no doubt

The top pros don't really get effected too much by it but it will help

TM do offer big contracts - not as big as Calloway or Nike for example but certainly more than Ping and Titleist and a few others

Players will look for sponsorship to help them out but they also will need to have the equipment that will suit them and be the best they can get 

TM drivers are up there with the best - I wonder what it's like at clubs though - I reckon the cheaper ones ( RBZ etc ) will be more popular because of the price compared to the R1 and SLDR 

I like TM - the clubs suit me and I seem to hit them better than any over clubs - I'm lucky I know a TM rep who also gets me some clubs to test and keep if I want too. But I have also done a lot of testing for ping and tour edge and the odd Cobra Driver.

I will never understand the anti TM feeling - sometimes I wonder if it's just habit for some but you can't argue that they get results for their players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Are you, seriously, suggesting that Taylormade driver perform significantly and measureably better than any of the other OEM's on tour? And that's why non-contracted players, Like Donald and Mickleson use them?

If you seriously think that, then you are clearly a marketing mans dream.

Here's a few extracts from an article, endorsed by TM and how they have "Risen to the top"



Also:





Here's the article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324900204578286173274533026

This article, clearly shows the level of endorsement TM have invested into getting there brand recognised, and, based on the above the pay top dollar to do it.

From a manufacturers point of view, golf is like football, is all about advertising your brand. Why do you think Taylormade decided, with the R11, to start painting their drivers white? The answer is simple, to distinguish them from every other driver on tour, on your T.V screen. Nothing to do with glare or alignment, advertising pure and simple as admitted by their CEO in the above article.

Most of the above article includes quotes from Taylormades CEO. Including the section on endorsements.

Would you still like to carry on the debate as to _why_ so may tour players use TM woods?
		
Click to expand...

So tell me why Phil Mickleson used the SLDR driver when he was getting no money ? Was he sucked in by the marketing as well or did he want to try a driver that gave him the results he wanted but couldn't get from another manufactuerer

I have read the articles and again I don't really care about marketing - I'm lucky enough to be able to think for myself and not get sucked in and get angry or even bothered by the marketing


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			And you think they would use them if they were no good?
		
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Luke Donald, Phil Mickleson, Henrick Stenson ...... No.


Lesser known tour players who don't quite earn as much, I'll let you decide that 

Anywho, the question isn't about their quality (I had an 09' Tour Burner and an R9 which were great), they question is why they are in the hands of so many tour players.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So tell me why Phil Mickleson used the SLDR driver when he was getting no money ? Was he sucked in by the marketing as well or did he want to try a driver that gave him the results he wanted but couldn't get from another manufactuerer
		
Click to expand...

See post #120.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			See post #120.
		
Click to expand...

See post #108


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			See post #108
		
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Post #108 refers to players being endorsed to use TM clubs.

Post #120 refers to the quality of the club. I.E Would they use it if it wasn't any good?

What's not clear?


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

Mickelson is a world renowned club tinkerer.  Will the taylormade be a worse club when he switches back to a Callaway in a few weeks, or drops the driver from his bag altogether? of course not.
He's really not a good example.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Post #108 refers to players being endorsed to use TM clubs.

Post #120 refers to the quality of the club. I.E Would they use it if it wasn't any good?

What's not clear?
		
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Post 108 was In response to me asking about players like Mickleson switching to an SLDR driver and is it just about the money and post 108 was your response - seems clear your answer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			Mickelson is a world renowned club tinkerer.  Will the taylormade be a worse club when he switches back to a Callaway in a few weeks, or drops the driver from his bag altogether? of course not.
He's really not a good example.
		
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Why ? Because it doesn't suit your argument ? 

He isn't endorsed to play them but still decided too.


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## CMAC (Nov 12, 2013)

it was only a few months ago that Phil was orgasmic (I choose that word carefully) about the Callaway driver which almost singlehandedly won him the tournament (forgotten which one), he went on and on about it so much it was getting embarrassing. Does he still use it now


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## Vice (Nov 12, 2013)

Mob mentality, people like to jump on bandwagons, it's cool to hate on stuff 



Liverpoolphil said:



			I will never understand the anti TM feeling - sometimes I wonder if it's just habit for some but you can't argue that they get results for their players.
		
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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

CMAC said:



			it was only a few months ago that Phil was orgasmic (I choose that word carefully) about the Callaway driver which almost singlehandedly won him the tournament (forgotten which one), he went on and on about it so much it was getting embarrassing. Does he still use it now 

Click to expand...

It was the waste management open in Phoenix earlier this year.

He also had a TM RBZ 3 wood in his bag for a while this year, then replaced it with the Callaway 3 deep.

So is the Callaway better than the TM? Or should we just not read too much into what Mickelson puts in his bag as he changes so much?

No doubt that, at the moment, or at least for the presidents cup, Phil Mickelson believed that the best driver on the market for him at that point was the SLDR. 

If the argument is that Phil Mickelson uses it and isn't paid to therefore it's the best, then what is the argument going to be when he inevitably switches away from it? as he consistently does with all his drivers (and 3 woods).


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			It was the waste management open in Phoenix earlier this year.

He also had a TM RBZ 3 wood in his bag for a while this year, then replaced it with the Callaway 3 deep.

So is the Callaway better than the TM? Or should we just not read too much into what Mickelson puts in his bag as he changes so much?

No doubt that, at the moment, or at least for the presidents cup, Phil Mickelson believed that the best driver on the market for him at that point was the SLDR. 

If the argument is that Phil Mickelson uses it and isn't paid to therefore it's the best, then what is the argument going to be when he inevitably switches away from it? as he consistently does with all his drivers (and 3 woods).
		
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No the argument is it's not always about the money and marketing as opposed to being about the clubs performance.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Post 108 was In response to me asking about players like Mickleson switching to an SLDR driver and is it just about the money and post 108 was your response - seems clear your answer.
		
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Point being, you _still_ haven't proved me wrong 

I worded my answer in post 108 very carefully as you nor I will never know whether money changed hands to get Mickleson to use the SLDR driver. Anything either way is simply conjecture.

In any case, saying "It's not all about the money" when it comes to Mickleson has it's flaws:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/01/20/humana-challenge-phil-mickelson-taxes/1850265/

It's the same with Luke Donald either way it would be a guess, but when the CEO of Taylormade comes out and makes a statement as worded in my previous post(s) regarding the size of the endorsements paid to players to use woods, it has me coming down on the "Paid to use" side of the fence.


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## Imurg (Nov 12, 2013)

Most of this debate is just going round in circles.
Regardless of the quality of TM products, regardless of who pays to play them or is paid to play them, there is a significant number of people who are being turned off the brand due to their agressive marketing and release policies.
That is a bottom line to this.
Yes there are many who love it and will continue to, but many don't and that is the point that is being put across.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Point being, you _still_ haven't proved me wrong 

I worded my answer in post 108 very carefully as you nor I will never know whether money changed hands to get Mickleson to use the SLDR driver. Anything either way is simply conjecture.

In any case, saying "It's not all about the money" when it comes to Mickleson ha sit's flaws:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/01/20/humana-challenge-phil-mickelson-taxes/1850265/

It's the same with Luke Donald either way it would be a guess, but when the CEO of Taylormade comes out and makes a statement as worded in my previous post(s) regarding the size of the endorsements paid to player to use woods, it has me coming down on the "Paid to use" side of the fence.
		
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I can take a very accurate wild guess that no money changed hands - hence why TM were flattered and why it was painted to make out it wasn't a TM. If they paid for him to use then I would expect TM would want the whole world to see he used it. 

But it's all about opinions and you have yours and I have mine.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Imurg said:



			Most of this debate is just going round in circles.
Regardless of the quality of TM products, regardless of who pays to play them or is paid to play them, there is a significant number of people who are being turned off the brand due to their agressive marketing and release policies.
That is a bottom line to this.
Yes there are many who love it and will continue to, but many don't and that is the point that is being put across.
		
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And I would suggest to those people to ignore the marketing and how they are released and concentrate on the club itself 

But I guess that's too hard for some to do -( not sure why really ) because then they wouldn't have anything to complain about I'm regards TM

Will be interesting to see how Ping market all their clubs next year - will expect the same overreaction to their marketing plot when they post up how much better their club is than other models - same with Nike.


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

I would suggest that whether or not Phil Mickelson was paid or not to use the SLDR has the square root of naff all to do with whether TM is the no.1 driver on tour because they paid the most people to use it or because it is so much better than everyone else's club that everyone just chose to use it for performance reasons alone.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			I would suggest that whether or not Phil Mickelson was paid or not to use the SLDR has the square root of naff all to do with whether TM is the no.1 driver on tour because they paid the most people to use it or because it is so much better than everyone else's club that everyone just chose to use it for performance reasons alone.
		
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Suggest away - I'll agree to differ.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Can I just ask.....



Liverpoolphil said:



			I like TM - the clubs suit me and I seem to hit them better than any over clubs - *I'm lucky I know a TM rep who also gets me some clubs to test and keep if I want too*.
		
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Would your opinion be different if the above statement wasn't the case?

Just curious.


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## Stuey01 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Suggest away - I'll agree to differ.
		
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Keep drinking the koolaid my man, bottoms up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Can I just ask.....



Would your opinion be different if the above statement wasn't the case?

Just curious.
		
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No different at all - thankfully I can think for myself and judge each club on its merit and not by any marketing or release hype


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Stuey01 said:



			Keep drinking the koolaid my man, bottoms up.
		
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I think the response you were actually looking for was " Respect your opinion but agree to differ "


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No different at all - thankfully I can think for myself and judge each club on its merit and not by any marketing or release hype
		
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That's cool :thup:

Another question.



Liverpoolphil said:



			Started the season with the R11 and then brought the R1
		
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Can I ask what was the main reason for this change and what you got out of it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			That's cool :thup:

Another question.



Can I ask what was the main reason for this change and what you got out of it?
		
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I cracked the bottom plate on the R11 

And I got more distance and better dispersion from the R1 ( the RBZ went further but dispersion wasn't as good ) also tried the D3 , Nike Covert and the G25.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I cracked the bottom plate on the R11 

And I got more distance and better dispersion from the R1 ( the RBZ went further but dispersion wasn't as good ) also tried the D3 , Nike Covert and the G25.
		
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The SLDR didn't suit you?


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## USER1999 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I cracked the bottom plate on the R11 5.
		
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The fabled tm build quality then!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			The SLDR didn't suit you?
		
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Nope didn't like the feel of it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			The fabled tm build quality then!
		
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Yep great build quality as it's the only damage in any of my TM items in the 4 years I have been playing them. 

But yes it immediately points to poor build quality


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## adam6177 (Nov 12, 2013)

I haven't read this whole thread but something I heard was that Callaway actually own the technology behind the SLDR and had planned on calling it the slider.  Hence the silly name from TM and not actually called it the slider.  There is currently a lawsuit between the two companies.

I think this is partially the reasoning behind lefty using the SLDR...the final product was available before Callaway had finished with their own  original version of the driver.


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## SAPCOR1 (Nov 12, 2013)

15 pages so the marketing is working!  Good job TMaG :thup:


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## Andy808 (Nov 12, 2013)

Unsurprisingly Callaway have released a new club the day after TM. 
And the circus continues!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

adam6177 said:



			I haven't read this whole thread but something I heard was that Callaway actually own the technology behind the SLDR and had planned on calling it the slider.  Hence the silly name from TM and not actually called it the slider.  There is currently a lawsuit between the two companies.

I think this is partially the reasoning behind lefty using the SLDR...the final product was available before Callaway had finished with their own  original version of the driver.
		
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That's why the SLDR was released early as opposed to this comin year I reckon


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Andy808 said:



			Unsurprisingly Callaway have released a new club the day after TM. 
And the circus continues!
		
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I expect the Anti Calloway threads will be in full flow soon.


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## Andy808 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the Anti Calloway threads will be in full flow soon.
		
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I'm surprised they haven't started already to be honest!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Andy808 said:



			I'm surprised they haven't started already to be honest!
		
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I'm sure it won't be long before they start


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## El Bandito (Nov 12, 2013)

Releases do seem to be getting quicker and quicker. I can only assume that it works (backed up by article posted earlier). Therefore I guess lots of OEM will be racing to keep up.

if only I could get my swing to improve as quick...


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## BTatHome (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the Anti Calloway threads will be in full flow soon.
		
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Why, just because they released the XHot, xhot pro, Razr fit extreme, FT optiforce and now xhot2/xhot2 pro?  Surely not !


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

BTatHome said:



			Why, just because they released the XHot, xhot pro, Razr fit extreme, FT optiforce and now xhot2/xhot2 pro?  Surely not !
		
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Yeah sorry there shouldn't really be much outrage over that. Blame Taylor Made for it


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No different at all - thankfully I can think for myself and judge each club on its merit and not by any marketing or release hype
		
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As every club in your bag is tm can you honestly say that no other manufactorer can rival any of your 14 clubs?  Seems that your tm's marketing dream and you have fallen for their swoddle!  I have tm, callaway, ping and titelist in my bag! Why? Because they performed best.


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			As every club in your bag is tm can you honestly say that no other manufactorer can rival any of your 14 clubs?  Seems that your tm's marketing dream and you have fallen for their swoddle!  I have tm, callaway, ping and titelist in my bag! Why? Because they performed best.
		
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Yep you're nothing but a TM fanboy!! Just like the others on here who sold their souls for a few trinkets


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## Jdb2005 (Nov 12, 2013)

I play taylormade irons and new sldr. I chose them as they were the best for me when I upgraded this year after being fitted. They will be in my bag for a minimum of at least 3 years and if in 3 years I decide to change/upgrade again then I will go on what's best for me. But my first port of call will be taylormade .


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Imurg said:



			Most of this debate is just going round in circles.
Regardless of the quality of TM products, regardless of who pays to play them or is paid to play them, there is a significant number of people who are being turned off the brand due to their agressive marketing and release policies.
That is a bottom line to this.
Yes there are many who love it and will continue to, but many don't and that is the point that is being put across.
		
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I love tm products but refuse to pay out for a driver that is going to be 50% cheaper in 6 months
.  Its not that I cant afford it, it just makes my poo itch!


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Jdb2005 said:



			I play taylormade irons and new sldr. I chose them as they were the best for me when I upgraded this year after being fitted. They will be in my bag for a minimum of at least 3 years and if in 3 years I decide to change/upgrade again then I will go on what's best for me. But my first port of call will be taylormade .
		
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Never trust a man with a bag full of the same clubs, who isn't on tour!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 12, 2013)

Funnily enough I was thinking on the way home that Callaway are beginning to mirror the TM model and release more models and a seemingly quicker turnaround. Not sure why they would want to do it but in the same ways as I dislike TM for it I don't Like what Cally are doing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			As every club in your bag is tm can you honestly say that no other manufactorer can rival any of your 14 clubs?  Seems that your tm's marketing dream and you have fallen for their swoddle!  I have tm, callaway, ping and titelist in my bag! Why? Because they performed best.
		
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I tried many manufacturer clubs during my testing and picked the best ones for me and the ones I was most comfortable - it appears you can't read so I'll say it - I can think for myself and pick clubs on their performance not on any marketing


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			Never trust a man with a bag full of the same clubs, who isn't on tour!!

Click to expand...

You will have to explain why ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			I love tm products but refuse to pay out for a driver that is going to be 50% cheaper in 6 months
.  Its not that I cant afford it, it just makes my poo itch!
		
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Buy it in 6 months then.


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Funnily enough I was thinking on the way home that Callaway are beginning to mirror the TM model and release more models and a seemingly quicker turnaround. Not sure why they would want to do it but in the same ways as I dislike TM for it I don't Like what Cally are doing.
		
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			Happy Golfing

Handicap 11.4 (11)
Ping G25 Driver (10 degrees)
Ping G25 3 & 5 woods
Ping G25 20 degree hybrid
Ping G25 irons 4-PW (green dot 2.25 degrees upright)
Ping Tour Wedge - 52 degrees (standard sole)
Ping Tour Wedge - 58 degrees (wide sole)
Odyssey ProType Tour #9 - 34 inches

http://www.royalascotgolfclub.co.uk
http://threeoffthetee.blogspot.co.uk/

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^^^^^ exactly this


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You will have to explain why ?
		
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Do you have the matching polo shirt, brolley & tour cap??


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			Never trust a man with a bag full of the same clubs, who isn't on tour!!

Click to expand...

I've never understood the matching set thing . Its either that it was a HUGE coincidence that all the clubs that went best happened to be the same brand or the customer decided what he was buying before he parked his car


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Buy it in 6 months then.
		
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I did.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			Do you have the matching polo shirt, brolley & tour cap??
		
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Nope don't wear caps - have a motocaddy brolley and have various polo shirts


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			I've never understood the matching set thing . Its either that it was a HUGE coincidence that all the clubs that went best happened to be the same brand or the customer decided what he was buying before he parked his car
		
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You seem to struggle with a lot of things in regards golf.


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope don't wear caps - have a motocaddy brolley and have various polo shirts
		
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That's ok then:thup:  there's still hope, TM haven't got to you completely yet.


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I tried many manufacturer clubs during my testing and picked the best ones for me and the ones I was most comfortable - it appears you can't read so I'll say it - I can think for myself and pick clubs on their performance not on any marketing
		
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so was that a yes? When you had your driver, irons, wedges and putter fitting the best out the bunch was always tm?  Rubish!  Maybe one or two. But the hole set.  I'd bet my house on it you have a tm bag and cap!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			That's ok then:thup:  there's still hope, TM haven't got to you completely yet.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why some struggle with the fact that some people have the ability to think for themselves


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## Andy808 (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			so was that a yes? When you had your driver, irons, wedges and putter fitting the best out the bunch was always tm?  Rubish!  Maybe one or two. But the hole set.  I'd bet my house on it you have a tm bag and cap!
		
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Probably had socks, pants and cufflinks thrown in for free for buying all their gear.:rofl:


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I tried many manufacturer clubs during my testing and picked the best ones for me and the ones I was most comfortable - *it appears you can't read so I'll say it*- I can think for myself and pick clubs on their performance not on any marketing
		
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Can you speak up a little. I can't hear you here in Stoke


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm not sure why some struggle with the fact that some people have the ability to think for themselves
		
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No struggle, when you off to the super dooperier,  jet speedier demo day??


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			so was that a yes? When you had your driver, irons, wedges and putter fitting the best out the bunch was always tm?  Rubish!  Maybe one or two. But the hole set.  I'd bet my house on it you have a tm bag and cap!
		
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Well when I had my driver fitted I tried three other drivers and went with the one that gave me the best results 

When I was fitted with my irons I tried both the MC and the AP2's and went with the ones that gave me the best results - the wedges were part of the set 

And I tried countless putters and again went with the one that suited me the best 

That's without seeing any advert or watching any telly campaign - it's called thinking and being comfortable with what I have in my hand and gave me the best results - so far it appears it's working as I'm about to become a cat 1 golfer.

As for bag - that's a Motocaddy to go with my trolley and I don't wear caps.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			No struggle, when you off to the super cooper, jet speedier demo day??
		
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I'm not but I have a Ping one coming


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			No struggle, when you off to the super cooper, jet speedier demo day??
		
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:whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Andy808 said:



			Probably had socks, pants and cufflinks thrown in for free for buying all their gear.:rofl:
		
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Best start using their ball as well to fit the childish stereotype being broadcast on here.


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm not but I have a Ping one coming
		
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Mmmmm. S55's. :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			Mmmmm. S55's. :thup:
		
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Who knows - might even wait to try the I25's


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well when I had my driver fitted I tried three other drivers and went with the one that gave me the best results 

When I was fitted with my irons I tried both the MC and the AP2's and went with the ones that gave me the best results - the wedges were part of the set 

And I tried countless putters and again went with the one that suited me the best 

That's without seeing any advert or watching any telly campaign - it's called thinking and being comfortable with what I have in my hand and gave me the best results - so far it appears it's working as I'm about to become a cat 1 golfer.

As for bag - that's a Motocaddy to go with my trolley and I don't wear caps.
		
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Surely at your level you should have tried more than two sets. As a 5 handicap you can get more out of clubs than most. Why didnt you try the other makes such as callaway ping cobra titelist nike.


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who knows - might even wait to try the I25's
		
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Don't be such a slave to Pings marketing!!!


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who knows - might even wait to try the I25's
		
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Ping rep at the forest of arden said they ent launching them as i20's are still selling well and they cant improve them! Fancy that


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			Surely at your level you should have tried more than two sets. As a 5 handicap you can get more out of clubs than most. Why didnt you try the other makes such as callaway ping cobra titelist nike.
		
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Well I did try Titliest ( they make AP2's btw ) 

Don't like Cobra or Calloway and had Nike previously 

I was quite happy with the choice I made


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Best start using their ball as well to fit the childish stereotype being broadcast on here.
		
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I have some sympathy for you here.

I am/was the biggest Mizuno hoar on here. At one point I had a bag full of MP clubs, and the bag to match. 

Now I have what works for me, like LP. 

Will I be changing anytime soon, nope, well not unless they break.

I tried, like you a bunch of gear at the fittings I had, in some cases it was a dead heat so I went what I felt comfortable with,the putter being a prime example. I could have brought an Â£80 Rife, but instead spent Â£200+ on a Scotty Cameron 

Like I said I have sympathy for this, but being fitted and TM consistently being the best, from driver to putter is a bit rich for me. 

On a slightly different note, I see Callaway have had yet another equipment launch. This one claiming 10 yards advantage over a club that  isn't a year old.

Clearly they are trying to play TM at their own games, and on driving averages for last year (2013) they have appear to be shading it. 

3 of the top 5 longest on your last year (2013) play Callaway.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			Ping rep at the forest of arden said they ent launching them as i20's are still selling well and they cant improve them! Fancy that
		
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:lol:

And I'm going to say you are talking utter tosh as behind the AP's just released they are the most anticipated golf iron at the moment and are going to fly of the shelf.


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## SAPCOR1 (Nov 12, 2013)

This thread is getting silly now, if someone wants a bag full of clubs from the same manufacturer so what and why does he has to justify himself over and over again?


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:lol:

And I'm going to say you are talking utter tosh as behind the AP's just released they are the most anticipated golf iron at the moment and are going to fly of the shelf.
		
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not me talking pal. From the ping reps mouth yesterday night.  And i20's are still flying off the shelf.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			I have some sympathy for you here.

I am/was the biggest Mizuno hoar on here. At one point I had a bag full of MP clubs, and the bag to match. 

Now I have what works for me, like LP. 

Will I be changing anytime soon, nope, well not unless they break.

I tried, like you a bunch of gear at the fittings I had, in some cases it was a dead heat so I went what I felt comfortable with,the putter being a prime example. I could have brought an Â£80 Rife, but instead spent Â£200+ on a Scotty Cameron 

Like I said I have sympathy for this, but being fitted and TM consistently being the best, from driver to putter is a bit rich for me. 

On a slightly different note, I see Callaway have had yet another equipment launch. This one claiming 10 yards advantage over a club that  isn't a year old.

Clearly they are trying to play TM at their own games, and on driving averages for last year (2013) they have appear to be shading it. 

3 of the top 5 longest on your last year (2013) play Callaway.
		
Click to expand...

I have had one fitting sessions for irons ( before it was off the shelf )

And three driver fitting sessions 

The putter I picked myself without the help of anyone and it came down to looks between the Spider and an Odessy 2 Ball


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

SAPCOR1 said:



			This thread is getting silly now, if someone wants a bag full of clubs from the same manufacturer so what and why does he has to justify himself over and over again?
		
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He doesn't, it's a joke Joyce!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			not me talking pal. From the ping reps mouth yesterday night.  And i20's are still flying off the shelf.
		
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Well I'll soon find out on Friday and I can guarantee that the rep will give a completely different story to your rep.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 12, 2013)

SAPCOR1 said:



			This thread is getting silly now, if someone wants a bag full of clubs from the same manufacturer so what and why does he has to justify himself over and over again?
		
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Amen brother!

I really cannot give a proverbial what is in other forumers bags no more than I am bothered whether they belong to traditional or proprietary clubs.

Horses (or in this case; golfers) for courses.


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Come on Gareth. Everyone knows you went for a fitting, tested a load of clubs and chose the ones that massaged your vanity


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			not me talking pal. From the ping reps mouth yesterday night.  And i20's are still flying off the shelf.
		
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Ask a silly question but the Cally X-Hot and TM RBZ stage 2 are selling well.

Why would model change of these be any different to ping and the i20 line?


----------



## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well I'll soon find out on Friday and I can guarantee that the rep will give a completely different story to your rep.
		
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His not my rep. I'd never met the bloke before. If you get any news on friday then please post as these might be on my birthday list.   But I have to say the three pga students at the belfry are all ping sponsored and they have been told the same.


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

therod said:



			Come on Gareth. Everyone knows you went for a fitting, tested a load of clubs and chose the ones that massaged your vanity

Click to expand...

Ok ok guilty. 

I spent a fortune on clubs I can't hit, just to make the game harder and massage my ego.... You win


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## User20205 (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Ok ok guilty. 

I spent a fortune on clubs I can't hit, just to make the game harder and massage my ego.... You win 

Click to expand...

:thup:


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Ask a silly question but the Cally X-Hot and TM RBZ stage 2 are selling well.

Why would model change of these be any different to ping and the i20 line?
		
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From what i've picked up on. Ping dont release a new product if it doesnt perform better. hense the life of the s56 and probably why ping has the best resale value of any make.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			From what i've picked up on. Ping dont release a new product if it doesnt perform better. hense the life of the s56 and probably why ping has the best resale value of any make.
		
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The G20's didn't perform better than the G15's and certainly didn't sell as well as the G15's were still flying of the shelf

Same with the woods. The G15 driver is their best ever


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## One Planer (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			From what i've picked up on. Ping dont release a new product if it doesnt perform better. hense the life of the s56 and probably why ping has the best resale value of any make.
		
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Sounds similar to Mizuno also with a 2 year rolling cycle. 

Yearly or every 6 months is extreme  IMO. Saying that. There must be a market for it as they keep doing it 

Some gullible folk about


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## tsped83 (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The G20's didn't perform better than the G15's and certainly didn't sell as well as the G15's were still flying of the shelf

Same with the woods. The G15 driver is their best ever
		
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As a Ping user, I beg to differ on both points


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Sounds similar to Mizuno also with a 2 year rolling cycle. 

Yearly or every 6 months is extreme  IMO. Saying that. There must be a market for it as they keep doing it 

Some gullible folk about 

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The G series is now yearly.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

tsped83 said:



			As a Ping user, I beg to differ on both points
		
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Then do beg to differ but the G15 was the companies best selling golf range. 

Most Ping Pros kept in using the G15 driver and didn't touch the G20 driver 

The G20 irons were way below par for results compared to the G15 - and that's from Ping staff player.


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The G20's didn't perform better than the G15's and certainly didn't sell as well as the G15's were still flying of the shelf

Same with the woods. The G15 driver is their best ever
		
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that why westy went from the g10 to g25?.  Can I ask where you got that info from as I was told buy the ping fitter that the g25 has big shoes to fill as the g20 was its best selling range since the g10.  And I dont know where he got his info from


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			Ping rep at the forest of arden said they ent launching them as i20's are still selling well and they cant improve them! Fancy that
		
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Sorry but I've heard it from two separate Ping reps that the I25 is going to hit the market February 2014 and on general sale no later than Easter i.e. the start of the season


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but I've heard it from two separate Ping reps that the I25 is going to hit the market February 2014 and on general sale no later than Easter i.e. the start of the season
		
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Exactly what I have heard as well

The young lad who is sponsored by Ping has been told to expect his just before or after Xmas


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but I've heard it from two separate Ping reps that the I25 is going to hit the market February 2014 and on general sale no later than Easter i.e. the start of the season
		
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I hope so homer. Its just that there's usualy a sneak peak or a tour player using them by now. 2 and a half months away and no photo's.  Come on ping!


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## richart (Nov 12, 2013)

I haven't read all the posts, but it seems to me that the more new models Companies bring out the better. It means you can buy the previous models at knock down prices, and if technology, performance etc in the new model is any different to the previous ones I would be amazed.

Of course there will be golfers who always have to have the latest models from manufacturers. Strangely the majority of the low handicap golfers I play with seem to play with older clubs.


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