# Dropping the club on the downswing



## swasterix (Sep 17, 2015)

Good morning experts!

A recent bout of embarrassingly inconsistent iron play had me in for a lesson with my pro last week. When I wasn't hooking and blocking the ball into the deep deep fluffy stuff, I was s****ing the ball left, right and centre.

after looking at my swing, the pro has told me that my back swing is fine, but in the transition between the backswing and downswing, I am dropping the club behind me, meaning I am presenting the hosel to the ball. By the end of the lesson, he had me hitting it out of the screws! Straight as an arrow, or a slight fade. 

Out for for a knock yesterday, and the problems returned, with a vengeance! Worst round for some time. I know what I am doing, but I just can't seem to stop myself!

anybody have any advice/drills that may help? 

Thanks in advance!


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## bobmac (Sep 17, 2015)

Did your pro check your alignment, especially your shoulders?
They may be pointing a little right at address


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## swasterix (Sep 17, 2015)

Hi Bob, thanks for the reply. 

Yes alignment was fine, feet, shoulders and club face all pointing at the target at address. 

The club is on plain throughout the backswing, but as the hips start to turn on the down swing my arms drop meaning the club is coming through very much on the inside. Think the hook is coming from me managing to flip the club before impact, the shank when I don't...

i know I am doing it, I just can't seem to stop myself! So frustrating!


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## bobmac (Sep 17, 2015)

swasterix said:



			Hi Bob, thanks for the reply. 

Yes alignment was fine, feet, shoulders and club face all pointing at the target at address.
		
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If they are all pointing at the target then all is not fine, they should be pointing left of your target and parallel to the ball to target line.
One fix for your dropping at the top is to introduce a tiny pause at the top of the backswing. That should help


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## swasterix (Sep 17, 2015)

bobmac said:



			If they are all pointing at the target then all is not fine, they should be pointing left of your target and parallel to the ball to target
		
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Sorry, semantics. Feet and shoulders pointing parallel left of the target, club at the target.

Thanks for the tip, will give it a try.


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## the_coach (Sep 17, 2015)

what keys did the Pro give you to change the pattern in the session that fixed it for a while?

you ever spent a bunch of time training to start the transition with the hips, lower body moving from the top first off?


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## swasterix (Sep 17, 2015)

Hi Coach

He told me to feel as if I was lifting my hands in front of me as I was taking my back swing, and then to feel as if I was swinging over the top on the downswing. 

We've spent time in earlier lessons focussing on hip rotation in the downswing, looking at the video he took in the lesson my hips seemed to be clearing ok.


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## the_coach (Sep 17, 2015)

swasterix said:



			Hi Coach

He told me to feel as if I was lifting my hands in front of me as I was taking my back swing, and then to feel as if I was swinging over the top on the downswing. 

We've spent time in earlier lessons focussing on hip rotation in the downswing, looking at the video he took in the lesson my hips seemed to be clearing ok.
		
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ok, if you can would continue with that advice what he's looking to do is keep the arms/hands/club little ways in front of the chest going back then feeling again there are in front of the chest on the ways down, all good

check point for this halfways back would be stop when the lead arm is horizontal to the ground
 keep everything in posture & just angle the head to see where the hands/handle are
 - good place would be directly opposite center chest, sternum & the lead arm more parallel to the toe line 
- not so good if the club going back behind a ways would be hands opposite the right armpit, so nearer to over the heel line & the lead arm going very much back across the chest at this horizontal to ground lead arm position.

if hips are clearing, good 

- reason for the question was if there's a pretty violent hip lateral shift first off at transition this makes the spine lean back some trailside & shoulder & arms work too much down behind - feeling would be of getting stuck pretty often - arms club get too far behind the lower body so end up coming from too far inside causes a flip roll release, can cause hosel to ball.

the face angle is effectively having to rotate counterclockwise over to much over a short distance in travel - depends on timing but can be square to inside path so push, can close too much so hook, duck hook
can also cause the hips to straighten up so so hosel gets to ball.

drill you could try out is upturned range basket next to the trail foot toes - use say a 7i to start off - if square basket put a side level with the inside of the trail foot & virtually touching the toes - have a few real slow takebacks to see how the shaft just misses the basket just want around 3" of clearance, then a real slow move down to see how it misses on the ways to the ball makes the arms/club swing more infront of the chest
- if you get of of sequence lower body going to explosive laterally left so upper body tilted back & then arms ways behind the rest of the motion - the shaft is going to clatter the basket.

also along with the basket put an alignment stick 1" away from the ball at the other side of the ball & running parallel to your target line equal amounts of the side target side to trail side, if you still too much from the inside you'll hit ball then clatter the stick

both obstacles will make you have a swing that's more in front the body - little ways more upright
so the swing path will be nearer to neutral not say coming 6Âº or 7Âº+ from the inside

because it's more upright neutral you can continue to rotate the torso right through the shot, instead of stopping the upper body rotation so the forearms/hands flip


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## garyinderry (Sep 17, 2015)

[video=youtube;YaJQfnMuiU0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaJQfnMuiU0[/video]


Just don't break your shaft


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## swasterix (Sep 18, 2015)

Coach, thank you for such a detailed response and Gary, thanks for the video!

Will be hitting the range later today so will give it a try!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 19, 2015)

swasterix said:



			By the end of the lesson, he had me hitting it out of the screws! Straight as an arrow, or a slight fade.
		
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Sorry but I'm confused. Why aren't you working on what your pro had you doing in your lesson??


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## swasterix (Sep 19, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Sorry but I'm confused. Why aren't you working on what your pro had you doing in your lesson??
		
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What are you confused about?

I am working on what the pro had me doing in the lesson, however I'd been finding it difficult to translate what we did in the lesson onto the course (as per my OP). Slipping back into old habits! Was looking for a couple of drills to reinforce my lesson, before I can get back to see the pro again. 

Is that ok?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 19, 2015)

swasterix said:



			What are you confused about?

I am working on what the pro had me doing in the lesson, however I'd been finding it difficult to translate what we did in the lesson onto the course (as per my OP). Slipping back into old habits! Was looking for a couple of drills to reinforce my lesson, before I can get back to see the pro again. 

Is that ok?
		
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I'm confused because your pro had you working on something that was having good results so surely the point is to keep working on those things? TBH, there is no point paying out for lessons if you aren't going to work on the fixes he has given you. It is often the case with lessons that it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Stick to what he has told/shown you rather than relying on guesswork from people on here that can't see what you are doing  :thup:


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## swasterix (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm confused because your pro had you working on something that was having good results so surely the point is to keep working on those things? TBH, there is no point paying out for lessons if you aren't going to work on the fixes he has given you. It is often the case with lessons that it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Stick to what he has told/shown you rather than relying on guesswork from people on here that can't see what you are doing  :thup:
		
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Might as well close the forum then eh?

I have been working on the fixes
I have been struggling
I asked for some drills specific to the issue my pro had identified
The Coach has provided me with just that

Thanks for sharing your opinion, but spare yourself the confusion.


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## bobmac (Sep 20, 2015)

Did you try the little pause at the top?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

swasterix said:



			Might as well close the forum then eh?

I have been working on the fixes
I have been struggling
I asked for some drills specific to the issue my pro had identified
The Coach has provided me with just that

Thanks for sharing your opinion, but spare yourself the confusion.
		
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No problem. It's your money to waste on lessons then not do what the pro tells you to do.


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## swasterix (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			No problem. It's your money to waste on lessons then not do what the Pro tells you to do.
		
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I don't know whether you have an problem with reading, but I have been doing what the pro has told me to do. Since I was struggling a little, I was looking for some drills to reinforce this until I can get back and see the Pro again.

Thank you so much for your input, it has been most valuable.


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## swasterix (Sep 20, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Did you try the little pause at the top?
		
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Hi Bob

Yes, tried this at the range today. Found it helped me focus on where the club should be at the top when making practice swings. Appreciate it!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

swasterix said:



			I don't know whether you have an problem with reading, but I have been doing what the pro has told me to do. Since I was struggling a little, I was looking for some drills to reinforce this until I can get back and see the Pro again.

Thank you so much for your input, it has been most valuable.
		
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No, I don't have a problem with reading. Anybody offering advice on here is just guessing because none of them have seen your swing. Good luck in trying to fix your issues.


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## swasterix (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			No, I don't have a problem with reading. Anybody offering advice on here is just guessing because none of them have seen your swing. Good luck in trying to fix your issues.
		
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They're not guessing, as I told them exactly the issue which my Pro had identified!

Thanks for the good wishes


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

swasterix said:



			They're not guessing, as I told them exactly the issue which my Pro had identified!

Thanks for the good wishes 

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And you think there is only 1 possible cause and 1 possibly fix?


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## swasterix (Sep 20, 2015)

drive4show said:



			And you think there is only 1 possible cause and 1 possibly fix?
		
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What I think is none of your concern. 

I haven't the time or inclination to go backwards and forwards with a keyboard warrior.

Enjoy your Sunday evening.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

swasterix said:



			What I think is none of your concern. 

I haven't the time or inclination to go backwards and forwards with a keyboard warrior.

Enjoy your Sunday evening.
		
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Apologies for wasting your time, I was trying to help.


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## stevelev (Sep 20, 2015)

swasterix said:



			What I think is none of your concern. 

I haven't the time or inclination to go backwards and forwards with a keyboard warrior.

Enjoy your Sunday evening.
		
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Bit harsh considering what he was saying was sound advice, maybe forget about the scores and how it plays on the course. Just concentrate 100% on what 'your' pro asks you to stick with. It will take a while for it to feel comfortable, almost everyone creeps back to old habits, that is why pro's have so many regulars to prevent that.

Its great getting advice from people on here, but like D$S says they cant see your swing real time in the flesh, and they down know what it used to be like so they cant compare it. As helpful and good as coach may be he would probably offer slightly different advice in person.

The final bit is if it is none of D4S concern what you think, best not to post asking for advice. And before you say I have read the full thread and all anyone has done is offer sound advice that you have chosen to dismiss if it wasnt what you wanted to hear.

Keep at the lessons, stick with the practise, don't worry about the scores till next season and start in April with your ingrained swing and better scoring.

ne:


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## the_coach (Sep 20, 2015)

hey '*swasterix' *hope the practice going good .... along with the lessons

my take would be it seems maybes to have developed into being a little ways too confrontational difficult to see the exact reason why that pretty abrupt approach, as '*swasterix' *said in the op he was trying & looking to do what his Pro had asked of him - he never intimated he wouldn't be continuing on this path would be my reading of it - & he was continuing with the lessons - so that would seem all good 

the Q in the op was about drills that could help with this to see if that nudged the motion back to what was experienced during the lesson

drill I outlined is working towards the same motion his Pro had asked him to feel 
- & as an 'obstacle' drill it just helps re-inforce by giving some parameters to the path the club has to take & helps to 'feel' the space where the body arms/club move to be able to achieve that
- arms club have to go to the top more infront of the body, the sternum then move down in a similar motion - instruction from the Pro to feel like you swinging a little ways over the top - is exactly what the drill would help with

that the Pro's instruction was being studiously tried by '*swasterix**'*but was presenting a ways of difficulty to achieve sure is natural when trying to change patterns, hence the interested Q in op

how the lower body works from the get-go at transition - particularly the hips

- can just pre-program the arms & club to drop back behind overmuch & present as a path issue into impact to exactly the kinda shot outcomes that were outlined 
 - so if the lower motion is either too violent laterally left or just too much lateral left shift this will place the upper body out of alignment the the lower & a result of this would be to continue to drop the hands/arms/club too much back & behind the lower body motion
- sp no matter how much folks try to address the first movement from the top with the arm & club it just won't happen as this kinda lower body movement won't allow it to
- so something to be aware of and maybes give some consideration to check this isn't as to why everything is proving a might difficult in practice to achieve the change trying to be worked to

good look with the swing change with the Pro hope it goes down good


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## swasterix (Sep 21, 2015)

stevelev said:



			Bit harsh considering what he was saying was sound advice, maybe forget about the scores and how it plays on the course. Just concentrate 100% on what 'your' pro asks you to stick with. It will take a while for it to feel comfortable, almost everyone creeps back to old habits, that is why pro's have so many regulars to prevent that.

Its great getting advice from people on here, but like D$S says they cant see your swing real time in the flesh, and they down know what it used to be like so they cant compare it. As helpful and good as coach may be he would probably offer slightly different advice in person.

The final bit is if it is none of D4S concern what you think, best not to post asking for advice. And before you say I have read the full thread and all anyone has done is offer sound advice that you have chosen to dismiss if it wasnt what you wanted to hear.

Keep at the lessons, stick with the practise, don't worry about the scores till next season and start in April with your ingrained swing and better scoring.

ne:
		
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Hi Steve,
Think The Coach has more or less hit the nail on the head with his observation. I posted to the forum with a specific request for guidance to reinforce the observations that my Pro had mentioned. I had been following the guidance given, but as was struggling thought I would like to gain some further guidance with this specific issue I was having.

I appreciate that D4S was well meaning in his original posting, however I didn't come here to discuss the merits of gaining advice online. My request was fairly specific to the issue I am having. Like anything in life, I realise that in golf there is bad and good advice, and potentially many causes to an issue. I have enough off to realise this. I believe that the pointers raised by Bob, Coach and Gary were sound.

I had intimated in my reply to D4S that I was continuing with the suggestions from my pro, and that I was merely looking to back this up. I do feel however that this reply particularly was a little confrontational. 



drive4show said:



			No problem. It's your money to waste on lessons then not do what the pro tells you to do.
		
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My reply was prompted by this in the main, to make it clear that I didn't really want to continue with this line of conversation. Perhaps a little harsh, but I had tried to get my point across in previous posts.

Thanks for your thoughts on the post, and your good wishes. 

PS - Coach, your point regarding the lower body movement being a possible cause is an interesting one! I will mention this to my Pro at our next session. Appreciate your feedback.

Happy golfing to all!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 21, 2015)

I was quite simply trying to make 1 point. There are NUMEROUS causes of any particular fault in a golf swing and without seeing a video or the swing in person, anyone making a suggestion is just guessing at possible causes. You did the right thing going to see a pro in the first place, I was suggesting that you carry on down that route as you said in your OP that he had you hitting the ball really well.

Once again I apologise for trying to advise you, I certainly won't be offering you any advice in future.


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## garyinderry (Sep 22, 2015)

It is goddamm difficult to find 'that slot' with a square club face every time and hit a straight ball.  

It is pretty easy to always come under or over the plane but bang on is difficult to do.


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## swasterix (Sep 22, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I was quite simply trying to make 1 point. There are NUMEROUS causes of any particular fault in a golf swing and without seeing a video or the swing in person, anyone making a suggestion is just guessing at possible causes. You did the right thing going to see a pro in the first place, I was suggesting that you carry on down that route as you said in your OP that he had you hitting the ball really well.

Once again I apologise for trying to advise you, I certainly won't be offering you any advice in future.
		
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apology accepted.


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## swasterix (Sep 22, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			It is goddamm difficult to find 'that slot' with a square club face every time and hit a straight ball.  

It is pretty easy to always come under or over the plane but bang on is difficult to do.
		
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Agreed, but somewhere near would be nice


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