# Terror Alert



## Fish (Dec 8, 2014)

Information filtering through to me that a serious incident has occurred in an area of Birmingham which is so severe police foot patrols have all been called in and officers due to have finished their shifts in the last few hours are not allowed to leave thier stations! This warning has apparently gone out to police stations across the country and not just where this situation has occurred.


----------



## Fish (Dec 8, 2014)

Sky have now picked up on it stating all police officers called back to their base stations across the West Midlands but a warning across Britain to all police stations has also been given due the severe nature of the incident.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 8, 2014)

Filtering? Surely you mean 'someone has just told you or 'I've just seen'!

Hope it's nothing serious though!


----------



## Fish (Dec 8, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Filtering? Surely you mean 'someone has just told you or 'I've just seen'!

Hope it's nothing serious though!
		
Click to expand...

Its extremely serious, hence all officers in west midlands called back into there stations off patrol and none are allowed to leave.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2014)

Fish said:



			Its extremely serious, hence all officers in west midlands *called back into there stations off patrol and none are allowed to leave*.
		
Click to expand...

Shouldn't they be out on the streets protecting the general citizens!

Are hey going to stay in their bases? Or make the streets and suburbs safe!?


----------



## louise_a (Dec 9, 2014)

Maybe the threat is against the police themselves.


----------



## Fish (Dec 9, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Shouldn't they be out on the streets protecting the general citizens!

Are hey going to stay in their bases? Or make the streets and suburbs safe!?
		
Click to expand...

Those that are still out (traffic officers) have been told to be extra vigilant, Sky now reporting on it but still haven't released the full details, the threat is not against the "citizens"!


----------



## Fish (Dec 9, 2014)

louise_a said:



			Maybe the threat is against the police themselves.
		
Click to expand...

Although the word "threat" is mainly used for something that could or likely happen, in this case its used as an "additional" term because a serious incident has already taken place and its believed further incidents could take place elsewhere across the country!

http://news.sky.com/story/1388316/west-midlands-police-ordered-back-to-base


----------



## Martin70 (Dec 9, 2014)

http://news.sky.com/story/1388478/threat-made-to-kidnap-and-kill-police-officer


----------



## pbrown7582 (Dec 9, 2014)

louise_a said:



			Maybe the threat is against the police themselves.
		
Click to expand...

that's whats been reported intelligence source believe an attempt to kidnap and murder a police officer


----------



## CMAC (Dec 9, 2014)

thank the Lord its not an incident as in the OP but a threat and they catch the individuals quickly.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30404147


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2014)

Been reported as a creditable threat to kidnap or murder a police office on duty. Didn't know an arrest had been made


----------



## JCW (Dec 9, 2014)

Well its just getting out of hand these fanatics ........word of warning to anyone doing fancy dress , do not go as a policeman or anything to do with the army , no i am not joking , you just never know


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 9, 2014)

Guess I will just have to zip shut my opinion on matters like this.


----------



## Crazyface (Dec 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Guess I will just have to zip shut my opinion on matters like this.
		
Click to expand...

If you do, you are as bad as the bleeding hearts brigade. Send them all back before it's too late. Let them have their crazy religious ways in their own country.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			If you do, you are as bad as the bleeding hearts brigade. Send them all back before it's too late. Let them have their crazy religious ways in their own country.
		
Click to expand...

Send who back ?


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Send who back ?
		
Click to expand...

....and send them back to where?


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 10, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			....and send them back to where?
		
Click to expand...

Er....Birmingham!


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 10, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Er....Birmingham! 

Click to expand...

Precisely!

Any such incident and the cry always goes up "Send them home!", conveniently overlooking that this is their home and also failing to consider what may be causing these levels of disenchantment and disengagement with the country of their birth.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 10, 2014)

This sort of thing certainly doesn't help the case for Western morality!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-30383600


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 10, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			This sort of thing certainly doesn't help the case for Western morality!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-30383600

Click to expand...

No, but it certainly provides comfort to those who wish to radicalise young Muslims.


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 10, 2014)

Should we not all have responsibility for our actions.   I don't have a will to create acts of terrorism and nobody is going to persuade me otherwise.    Anyone prepared to carry out these acts are responsible for their actions and should face the highest level of punishment our law can dispense.   Anyone found to be encouraging others to carry out these acts IMO should be guilty of treason and the law should remove such people permanently from contact with the general public.

I dont know where these people would consider 'Home' to be, I would like it to be South Georgia!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Should we not all have responsibility for our actions.   I don't have a will to create acts of terrorism and nobody is going to persuade me otherwise.    Anyone prepared to carry out these acts are responsible for their actions and should face the highest level of punishment our law can dispense.   Anyone found to be encouraging others to carry out these acts IMO should be guilty of treason and the law should remove such people permanently from contact with the general public.

I dont know where these people would consider 'Home' to be, I would like it to be South Georgia!
		
Click to expand...

Of course we all should take responsibility for our actions and if those actions cause harm to others and break the laws of the country then they must be punished by the laws of the country - correctly. 

As opposed to statements like "Send them all back" !!


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 10, 2014)

There are already plenty of appropriate Terrorism laws in UK that can be and have been used (and abused!) to handle both suspected terrorists and terror suspects.


----------



## Ethan (Dec 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont know where these people would consider 'Home' to be, I would like it to be South Georgia!
		
Click to expand...

Really? Turkish, Armenian or Azerbaijani bit?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2014)

Ethan said:



			Really? Turkish, Armenian or Azerbaijani bit?
		
Click to expand...

Didn't see many of those people when I visited the island


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn't see many of those people when I visited the island 

Click to expand...

I believe Ethan was referring to the Georgia that has a Football team that played in World Cup qualifying! 

I don't think SR was though!


----------



## GreiginFife (Dec 10, 2014)

Ethan said:



			Really? Turkish, Armenian or Azerbaijani bit?
		
Click to expand...

Augusta?... 


(Only kidding, thats North East(ish))


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 10, 2014)

Re: the OP West Midlands Police have said earlier tonight that they no longer believe that there was a terrorist motive to the original "threat".


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Re: the OP West Midlands Police have said earlier tonight that they no longer believe that there was a terrorist motive to the original "threat".
		
Click to expand...

Thankfully nobody made assumptions in regards who was involved.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 10, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Re: the OP West Midlands Police have said earlier tonight that they no longer believe that there was a terrorist motive to the original "threat".
		
Click to expand...

You can't beat a good bit of scaremongering can you!


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Ethan said:



			Really? Turkish, Armenian or Azerbaijani bit?
		
Click to expand...

No! this bit:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=e...lgOgK&ved=0CFUQ8gEoATAL&output=classic&dg=brw


----------



## Fish (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			You can't beat a good bit of scaremongering can you!
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this?

At the time, well before Sky or the BBC had announced and picked up on it, I had received a couple of telephone calls from concerned partners who's other halves were on duty, well 1 had finished their shift 1hr before and was not allowed to leave their station and the other 1 was still on duty and was told to return to the station immediately.

It was believed at that time that a situation/incident had already happened and even a station in the West Midlands had been named, this was not "scaremongering" of any sorts and it was not until the official briefings took place across stations throughout the West Midlands and further afield that the facts were then given out about a serious threat and advice given about arriving and leaving stations in uniform.

Maybe if you had close friends or family in the police force at that time or had served in any situations when the enemy is invisible and serious specific threats are issued against them where an incident is believed to be imminent, you wouldn't sound off such a flippant comment!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2014)

Fish said:



			What do you mean by this?

At the time, well before Sky or the BBC had announced and picked up on it, I had received a couple of telephone calls from concerned partners who's other halves were on duty, well 1 had finished their shift 1hr before and was not allowed to leave their station and the other 1 was still on duty and was told to return to the station immediately.

It was believed at that time that a situation/incident had already happened and even a station in the West Midlands had been named, this was not "scaremongering" of any sorts and it was not until the official briefings took place across stations throughout the West Midlands and further afield that the facts were then given out about a serious threat and advice given about arriving and leaving stations in uniform.

Maybe if you had close friends or family in the police force at that time or had served in any situations when the enemy is invisible and serious specific threats are issued against them where an incident is believed to be imminent, you wouldn't sound off such a flippant comment!
		
Click to expand...

My "flippant comment" was the reply to metal mickie's post  below.


 Originally Posted by MetalMickie  
Re: the OP West Midlands Police have said earlier tonight that they no longer believe that there was a terrorist motive to the original "threat".

I wouldn't believe a word from the West Midlands Police Force, after all they've got previous for telling lies.


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			My "flippant comment" was the reply to metal mickie's post  below.


 Originally Posted by MetalMickie  
Re: the OP West Midlands Police have said earlier tonight that they no longer believe that there was a terrorist motive to the original "threat".

I wouldn't believe a word from the West Midlands Police Force, after all they've got previous for telling lies.
		
Click to expand...

So someone saying they will be kidnapping a Police Officer and killing them is not a Terrorist threat


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			So someone saying they will be kidnapping a Police Officer and killing them is not a Terrorist threat 

Click to expand...

Their own statement now states that it is not believed that there was a creditable threat, from any source , terrorist or otherwise.

Sorry if that disturbs anyone's "agenda".


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			So someone saying they will be kidnapping a Police Officer and killing them is *not a Terrorist threat* 

Click to expand...

That is exactly what the West Midlands Polie are saying!

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/no-credible-threat-police-kidnap-8267959


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			So someone saying they will be kidnapping a Police Officer and killing them is not a Terrorist threat 

Click to expand...

No. 

For example; Me a White CoE  British citizen could threaten to kidnap a copper and kill him. Does this make me a Terrorist?

I thought an educated fella like you would understand this.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2014)

Irrespective of what the "official" statement is from the west mids old bill, it is fact that for the last month plus all police forces have been on alert for police terrorist attacks on any police force. The plod on the street have been informed on this. It is this information which has " narked" ( and I am using my words very carefully, not allowing my tyrets to kick in ) my daughter and other PC,s on the beat when being asked to patrol alone, Due to cutbacks.

in essence, plod on the street is being asked to put there safety and ours at risk to save a few quid. How's that right ?


----------



## Fish (Dec 11, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Their own statement now states that it is not believed that there was a creditable threat, from any source , terrorist or otherwise.

Sorry if that disturbs anyone's "agenda".
		
Click to expand...




Foxholer said:



			That is exactly what the West Midlands Polie are saying!

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/no-credible-threat-police-kidnap-8267959

Click to expand...




Stuart_C said:



			No. 

For example; Me a White CoE  British citizen could threaten to kidnap a copper and kill him. Does this make me a Terrorist?

I thought an educated fella like you would understand this.
		
Click to expand...

That's all OK in hindsight now AFTER they have arrested and questioned someone, but at the time it was taken extremely seriously, especially as the threat level has been at its highest for some months with officers who have firearm certificates carrying firearms at all times, so, when a call such as this was received, should it just be ignored or acted upon fully, or will we fall into the "cry wolf" story and then get shafted!


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 11, 2014)

Fish said:



			That's all OK in hindsight now AFTER they have arrested and questioned someone, but at the time it was taken extremely seriously, especially as the threat level has been at its highest for some months with officers who have firearm certificates carrying firearms at all times, so, when a call such as this was received, should it just be ignored or acted upon fully, or will we fall into the "cry wolf" story and then get shafted!
		
Click to expand...

Certainly care must be taken to protect both the police and the public but some officers do feel that the ACC may have over -reacted and that there may be a danger of judgement calls being based upon perception and "urban myth".

Either way can provide the terrorists, where they exist, with the result they crave.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fish said:



			That's all OK in hindsight now AFTER they have arrested and questioned someone, but at the time it was taken extremely seriously, especially as the threat level has been at its highest for some months with officers who have firearm certificates carrying firearms at all times, so, when a call such as this was received, should it just be ignored or acted upon fully, or will we fall into the "cry wolf" story and then get shafted!
		
Click to expand...

There's obviously an escalation process within the WMP's command structure and this incident seems to have rocketed up that process - as might be expected! There's probably a 'better to over-react than under-react' policy in place, which covers the 'cry wolf' issue. But that'll all be part of the WMP's Incident Management process. I'm sure they'll be reviewing this particular incident to see whether any changes to the process need to be made.

Interesting to note the speed with which the 'casual network' operates though! I'm not certain that ALL Firearms Certified officers will be carrying them at ALL times - even at the current terror rating - but there has always been some that do - SO19 is based very close to where I worked a while back and they had a scary array of hardware!

Let's neither be complacent nor panic! Remember that if society has to change too markedly simply because the threat of terrorists, then it has been a victory for the terrorists and a defeat for society, which would be very sad! There are certain examples where I believe USA has already dropped into that state!


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			No. 

For example; Me a White CoE  British citizen could threaten to kidnap a copper and kill him. Does this make me a Terrorist?

I thought an educated fella like you would understand this.
		
Click to expand...

It would be an act of Terror, yes!   Just like some White R/C British Citizens did when they killed people with bombs and guns.  Was the killing of Lee Rigby not an act of terror?

*terrorism
/&#712;t&#603;r&#601;&#716;r&#618;z&#601;m/
noun 
1.
systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve some goal
2.
the act of terrorising
3.
the state of being terrorised

*


----------



## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			No. 

For example; Me a White CoE  British citizen could threaten to kidnap a copper and kill him. Does this make me a Terrorist?

I thought an educated fella like you would understand this.
		
Click to expand...

Have a think on that again Stu but I'll throw this in too...

.....Would it make you a terrorist with the exact same criteria and you had a Belfast accent?


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Have a think on that again Stu but I'll throw this in too...

.....Would it make you a terrorist with the exact same criteria and you had a Belfast accent?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the point I was making.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2014)

Fish said:



			That's all OK in hindsight now AFTER they have arrested and questioned someone, but at the time it was taken extremely seriously, especially as the threat level has been at its highest for some months with officers who have firearm certificates carrying firearms at all times, so, when a call such as this was received, should it just be ignored or acted upon fully, or will we fall into the "cry wolf" story and then get shafted!
		
Click to expand...

My comment was made AFTER it was confirmed there was no terrorism threat as aluded to initially.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Have a think on that again Stu but I'll throw this in too...

.....Would it make you a terrorist with the exact same criteria and you had a Belfast accent?
		
Click to expand...

And if the answer was different, would it make the person making that decision a Racist?


----------



## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And if the answer was different, would it make the person making that decision a Racist?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are getting at there but IMO no, not racist.

The reason I used the Belfast accent analogy was for years, and to use Stu's ref, White CoE (and RC)  British citizen men were classed as terrorists during the troubles in NI, the only difference from Stu's ref was they were mainly all from NI with Irish accents.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Have a think on that again Stu but I'll throw this in too...

.....Would it make you a terrorist with the exact same criteria and you had a Belfast accent?
		
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't.


----------



## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			No it wouldn't.
		
Click to expand...

Really? 

Then why were 100's of men in jail classed as terrorists from the late 60's onward with the same demographic, white, COE (or RC) British Citzens?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Not sure what you are getting at there but IMO no, not racist.

The reason I used the Belfast accent analogy was for years, and to use Stu's ref, White CoE (and RC)  British citizen men were classed as terrorists during the troubles in NI, the only difference from Stu's ref was they were mainly all from NI with Irish accents.
		
Click to expand...

Religion and politics was the root cause of that was it not?


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			No it wouldn't.
		
Click to expand...

Why not!  

I  gave you a definition of the word Terrorist, how does this not apply to someone kidnapping a Policeman and killing them?   It matters not what race, colour or religion the perpetrator would be, they would be a Terrorist all the same.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Really? 

Then why were 100's of men in jail classed as terrorists from the late 60's onward with the same demographic, white, COE (or RC) British Citzens?
		
Click to expand...


A terrorist is a person who uses violence or threatens for political purposes.

Getting back to the OP, did the above apply to this case?


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Religion and politics was the root cause of that was it not?
		
Click to expand...

No it wasn't, those were only excuses!  Mans great indifference to his fellow man were the cause, it always is the cause!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			No it wasn't, those were only excuses!  Mans great indifference to his fellow man were the cause, it always is the cause!
		
Click to expand...

I stand corrected!


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Why not!  

I  gave you a definition of the word Terrorist, how does this not apply to someone kidnapping a Policeman and killing them?   It matters not what race, colour or religion the perpetrator would be, they would be a Terrorist all the same.
		
Click to expand...


But then nobody did kidnap and kill a Policeman , nor was there a credible threat to do so.


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			No. 

For example; Me a White CoE  British citizen could threaten to kidnap a copper and kill him. Does this make me a Terrorist?

I thought an educated fella like you would understand this.
		
Click to expand...




SocketRocket said:



			So someone saying they will be kidnapping a Police Officer and killing them is not a Terrorist threat 

Click to expand...


Whether there was a threat is not the point being debated now.   It was more to do with whether a White, C of E /RC British Citizen carrying out such a crime would also be classed a Terrorist.


----------



## c1973 (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Whether there was a threat is not the point being debated now.   It was more to do with whether a White, C of E /RC British Citizen carrying out such a crime would also be classed a Terrorist.
		
Click to expand...

They used to be classed as terrorists, then they started being eligible for Nobel peace prizes!


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Why not!  

I  gave you a definition of the word Terrorist, how does this not apply to someone kidnapping a Policeman and killing them?   It matters not what race, colour or religion the perpetrator would be, they would be a Terrorist all the same.
		
Click to expand...

A single act/incident would not be terrorism imo. Merely Kidnapping and/or Murder.

But, as per the definition you quoted (you should specify the source btw.) systematic acts would.


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			A single act/incident would not be terrorism imo. Merely Kidnapping and/or Murder.

But, as per the definition you quoted (you should specify the source btw.) systematic acts would.
		
Click to expand...

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/terrorism

Was Anders Behring Breivik a Terrorist or a Murderer?


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Was Anders Behring Breivik a Terrorist or a Murderer?
		
Click to expand...

I think he was convicted of being both!

There were several incidents weren't there?

And it all depends on how 'terrorism'is defined in Law (of the specific country), as opposed to dictionary.

But my definition, he'd have been both.

Being a member of a 'terrorist organisation' would also satisfy my view of a terrorist. Then all that's required is to define what a 'terrorist organisation' is!


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			A terrorist is a person who uses violence or threatens for political purposes.

If that is the case then ISIS are not terrorists because there cause is religious ?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

Tashyboy said:





Stuart_C said:



			A terrorist is a person who uses violence or threatens for political purposes.
		
Click to expand...

If that is the case then ISIS are not terrorists because there cause is religious ?
		
Click to expand...

They are trying to change the way the area they control is governed - turning it into a Caliphate state, with Sharia Laws. That's surely a 'political purpose'!


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 11, 2014)

Tashyboy said:





Stuart_C said:



			A terrorist is a person who uses violence or threatens for political purposes.

If that is the case then ISIS are not terrorists because there cause is religious ?
		
Click to expand...

Was Hitler a terrorist?
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 12, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Was Hitler a terrorist?
		
Click to expand...

Would be for me! He also used the democratic process, but the terrorist acts/allegiances can't be denied! 

Most Israeli Prime Ministers would have been too. Not Netanyahu, though he's the head of a 'terrorist state'. Plenty of terrorists on the other side of that conflict too!

The obvious questions is 'what's the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist?'. The answer is normally that the 'freedom fighter' has attained power!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Whether there was a threat is not the point being debated now.   It was more to do with whether a White, C of E /RC British Citizen carrying out such a crime would also be classed a Terrorist.
		
Click to expand...

The example I gave was hypothetical one using me who I described personally. 

Carrying it out once I'd be a murderer surely? 

If I done it a few times I'd be a serial killer.

If I was part of a organisation carrying out organised killing for political/religious gains then I'd be classed as a Terrorist no?


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 12, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			The example I gave was hypothetical one using me who I described personally. 

Carrying it out once I'd be a murderer surely? 

If I done it a few times I'd be a serial killer.

If I was part of a organisation carrying out organised killing for political/religious gains then I'd be classed as a Terrorist no?
		
Click to expand...

Was the murder of Lee Rigby an act or terrorism?


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 12, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Was the murder of Lee Rigby an act or terrorism?
		
Click to expand...

Well considering the two killers where British born  Islamic converts then I'd say they were terriorists killing for religious gains.

No?


----------



## Val (Dec 12, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Was the murder of Lee Rigby an act or terrorism?
		
Click to expand...

An act of murder.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 12, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Was the murder of Lee Rigby an act or terrorism?
		
Click to expand...

Yawn!

Is there a point to these separate questions? Why not simply list the incidents/'candidates'?

Btw. This one's marginal/probably not. It might have been intended to be one but, on its own, it was simply a particularly gruesome murder carried out by radicalized perps.


----------

