# fade or draw with driver?



## jdchelsea (May 1, 2012)

Hello all

I've recently had some good success being able to hit draws and fades with my irons and looking to extend this to my driver. My technique for my irons is as follows:

Draw - Aim feet/body right of target and clubface aiming more towards the target. Ball back in stance i.e. back of centre.

Fade -   Aim feet/body left of target and clubface aiming more towards the target. Ball forward in stance i.e. forward of centre.

As you can see from my description the ball position, for me, changes to hit these shots. First off is this correct?

For a driver to hit either shot should I also be changing the ball position, if so by how much? or what is the correct technique for a driver?

Please no one come on and say "whatever works for you, try everything". I am looking to know what you do yourself to achieve either shot or the generally accepted correct technique and as stated i am particularly interested in ball position.

Many thanks


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## bobmac (May 1, 2012)

I would suggest you try and just master one shape.
I know lots of good golfers who cant and never will be able to fade/draw the ball.
What is your natural shape?


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## jdchelsea (May 1, 2012)

My natural shape is a fade with my bad shot being a pushed fade/slice.

My thinking is if I can learn how to hit both shapes I'll be better placed to master my go to shot shape. Also I'd like to be able to hit a specific shape if it really needs it.


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## garyinderry (May 1, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I would suggest you try and just master one shape.
*I know lots of good golfers who cant and never will be able to fade/draw the ball.*
What is your natural shape?
		
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why is this ? surely its a learnable skill! is it not just a mixture of correct grip, ball position and swing path! why would any golfer not be able to learn to either draw / fade the ball?


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## bobmac (May 1, 2012)

Have you ever seen someone who slices the ball try to hit a draw?


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## Val (May 1, 2012)

garyinderry said:



			why is this ? surely its a learnable skill! is it not just a mixture of correct grip, ball position and swing path! why would any golfer not be able to learn to either draw / fade the ball?
		
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Not strictly true, your brain has a habbit of doing it's own thing regardless. Ask Martin Kaymer who tried to change his game to hit a draw to suit Augusta.


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## garyinderry (May 1, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Have you ever seen someone who slices the ball try to hit a draw?
		
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my friend started playing last year and his natual shot was slice / block right! he had 6 lessons and his drive turned into a draw. in fact, now i think about it two of my mates have been like this. one has slipped back into old slice habbits due to no lessons therefore having the wrong set up.


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## In_The_Rough (May 1, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Not strictly true, your brain has a habbit of doing it's own thing regardless. Ask Martin Kaymer who tried to change his game to hit a draw to suit Augusta.
		
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He can hit a Draw though cant he? I thought he tried to make a Draw his natural shot shape I am sure he can move it Right to Left but it is not his natural shape. I can hit a Draw but it is not my natural shape of shot so find it a lot harder and only try to play one when no other option is available. My natural shape of shot is a straight flight I stuggle to hit any shape of shot but find a fade easier of the two.


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## bobmac (May 1, 2012)

I'm not saying it's impossible, just difficult.


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## garyinderry (May 1, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			He can hit a Draw though cant he? I thought he tried to make a Draw his natural shot shape I am sure he can move it Right to Left but it is not his natural shape. I can hit a Draw but it is not my natural shape of shot so find it a lot harder and only try to play one when no other option is available. My natural shape of shot is a straight flight I stuggle to hit any shape of shot but find a fade easier of the two.
		
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ive never met anyone whos natural flight is straight. you are blessed my man!  sergio admitted in GM that he cant hit a stright ball! i believe him !


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## In_The_Rough (May 1, 2012)

garyinderry said:



			ive never met anyone whos natural flight is straight. you are blessed my man! sergio admitted in GM that he cant hit a stright ball! i believe him !
		
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I am talking about my good hits here. I can quite easily slice one to the right or pull one to the left but if I make a good swing the ball goes dead straight with little movement through the air just wish I could do it every time. It can be a problem though sometimes on holes that have dog legs etc


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## USER1999 (May 1, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



Draw - Aim feet/body right of target and clubface aiming more towards the target. Ball back in stance i.e. back of centre.
		
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Have you ever managed to hit your left ankle?


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## Val (May 1, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			He can hit a Draw though cant he? I thought he tried to make a Draw his natural shot shape I am sure he can move it Right to Left but it is not his natural shape. I can hit a Draw but it is not my natural shape of shot so find it a lot harder and only try to play one when no other option is available. My natural shape of shot is a straight flight I stuggle to hit any shape of shot but find a fade easier of the two.
		
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Yes, but probably not with the degree of control he would like.

I can hit a draw too but have to really go at it and have no idea if it will come off or not but I can do it.

Natuaral flight for me is a fade and if I go after it then it becomes a slice.


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## bobmac (May 1, 2012)

Valentino said:



			I can hit a draw too but have to really go at it and have no idea if it will come off or not but I can do it.

Natuaral flight for me is a fade and if I go after it then it becomes a slice.
		
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Can I ask, if your normal shot is a fade or slice, what do you change to draw the ball?


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## DaveM (May 1, 2012)

I have two drivers? (well more than two, but only two I use). One is set up to fade the ball. One is set up to draw the ball. Both from a normal swing (well normal to me anyway). There have been times when I will have both in the bag at the same time! Don't know if its the right way to go. But it works for me sometimes.


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## Birchy (May 1, 2012)

My stock shot is a fade. I hit a draw with my driver by swinging in to out (dunno if thats crazy or not) i dont try to draw any of my other clubs though.


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## Luulox (May 1, 2012)

garyinderry said:



			ive never met anyone whos natural flight is straight. you are blessed my man! sergio admitted in GM that he cant hit a stright ball! i believe him !
		
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My natural shot shape is straight too, when i catch it right the ball goes straight down the line. Is this a rare thing? and also is it desirable? 
Cheers
Pete


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## jdchelsea (May 1, 2012)

Ok this thread has strayed somewhat.

Does anyone have any practical setup preferences they use on how they draw and fade a driver? I am specifically interested in ball position changes.


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## Val (May 1, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Can I ask, if your normal shot is a fade or slice, what do you change to draw the ball?
		
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Aim right with my body, toe the club face in a tad facing it at the intended target and back a small bit in the stance and ensure I come inside on the ball, to do this I try and feel like I'm trying to tuck my right elbow into my pocket. It works probably 50% of the time when it doesn't it's a hook.


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## garyinderry (May 1, 2012)

Luulox said:



			My natural shot shape is straight too, when i catch it right the ball goes straight down the line. Is this a rare thing? and also is it desirable? 
Cheers
Pete
		
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in my experiance its rare as hens teeth. people are usually fade/draw.


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## pingman93 (May 1, 2012)

i always set up to the right as i draw the ball but i have just recently learned to fade the ball but i can not fade the ball everyshot need a bit off pratice but it is hand to be able to use both shape in your round if you can control it.


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## Region3 (May 1, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			Ok this thread has strayed somewhat.

Does anyone have any practical setup preferences they use on how they draw and fade a driver? I am specifically interested in ball position changes.
		
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I can't draw the ball on command, I wish I could.

The most common method I've heard about (but not tried) is to set up normally, aiming at your starting line, then move your right foot (rh golfer) back a few inches.


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## Slime (May 1, 2012)

Region3 said:



			I can't draw the ball on command, I wish I could.
		
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Stack & Tilt........................................................
Sssshhh...........who said that?

*#*####.


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## Region3 (May 1, 2012)

Luulox said:



			My natural shot shape is straight too, when i catch it right the ball goes straight down the line. Is this a rare thing? and also is it desirable? 
Cheers
Pete
		
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Firstly, do you mean "dead arrow straight" or roughly straight?

A pro that plays with a natural fade/draw, unless they were trying to move one around a corner, might only move the ball 10-15' in the air.
To a lot of people I play with that is classed as straight, and what they call a fade/draw would be a slice/hook to a pro.

I find it easier to visualise the shot if I aim straight and _hope_ it doesn't move too much either way.
The problem with that is if I'm aiming a a flag cut on the left edge of a green and I don't know which way (if any) the ball is going to move, I might be dead on, middle of the green, or miss it altogether left.

A player that plays with a natural draw can aim at the middle of the green knowing that it isn't likely to go right of that so he'll finish middle of the green if it doesn't move or near the flag if it draws.


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## Region3 (May 1, 2012)

Slime said:



			Stack & Tilt........................................................
Sssshhh...........who said that?

*#*####.
		
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I tried it. Only for about 10 weeks admittedly, but it just wasn't for me as a long-term thing.
Not the swing pattern's fault I'll be the first to admit, but my body's inability to do what was requested of it.

I ended up so steep I made richart's divots look like air shots.

On the plus side I learnt a reasonable amount about the (and my) golf swing.


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## JustOne (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			My technique for my irons is as follows:

Draw - Aim feet/body right of target and clubface aiming more towards the target. Ball back in stance i.e. back of centre.

Fade - Aim feet/body left of target and clubface aiming more towards the target. Ball forward in stance i.e. forward of centre.

As you can see from my description the ball position, for me, changes to hit these shots. First off is this correct?
		
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Hmmmmm...... I don't agree with either of these......

If you have the ball in the middle of your stance *and then close your stance to the right* is the ball now still in the middle? back in your stance? or off the front foot?


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## JustOne (May 2, 2012)

In answer to your question (fade or draw with driver) I'd err on the side of FADE even though a draw is my natural shot... reason? The misses are better.


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## bobmac (May 2, 2012)

If you have the ball in the middle of your stance *and then close your stance to the right* is the ball now still in the middle? back in your stance? or off the front foot?
		
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I see this alot in bunkers. Ball centre then aim left....ball opposite the back foot


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

it would be slightly back in my stance. I know what your getting at though if you change your stance the ball position moves relatively. 

I suppose i setup as if i'm hitting right of target with the ball back in stance. i.e. the feet are set last. I dont setup for a neutral shot then make adjustments. not sure if that makes sense.


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

in the below picture is the second picture for a draw correct (in your opinion) or should the ball position be further back or even forward.

ps i know some of you out there (yes JustOne i mean you ) wont agree with the neutral setup but humour me.


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## bobmac (May 2, 2012)

To hit a draw, your swing path has to be, for example, in the direction of the right rough and your club face pointing at the right semi rough.
If you cannot swing in to out, you cannot hit a draw.
Unless you aim way right and hit a pull draw/hook.

As I said before, there are single figure golfers out there who can draw not fade and vice versa.
As a 19 h/capper, I would suggest you try and eliminate the slice and perfect your fade.
Then you will at least have a 'safe' shot to hit when there are trees, thick rough and OOB about.


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## JustOne (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			in the below picture is the second picture for a draw correct (in your opinion) or should the ball position be further back or even forward.

ps i know some of you out there (yes JustOne i mean you ) wont agree with the neutral setup but humour me.
		
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I agree with both of those positions for a draw but it depends what you are doing with the clubface and swingpath for each.

The 1st position would favour a *push-draw* but it's hard to hit as you have to swing out so far with a clubface a few degrees open to the target line, difficulty being that it's hard to swing out with the ball forward in the stance and/or your weight hanging back (people often slice from this position as their swingpath ends up cutting across the ball by the time they get to impact).

The second pic would favour a slight *pull-draw* and is a bit easier to hit however general weaknesses in this method include swingpath going too deep on backswing (hook) hips don't open and clubhead flips closed (snap hook) or the face remains too open at impact (block).


There is also the consideration for each position of whether you are hitting up/level/down on the ball.... assuming you are hitting UP then the closed stance is preferable for driver only... I'd NEVER suggest position 2 for an iron.


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

bobmac said:



			As a 19 h/capper, I would suggest you try and eliminate the slice and perfect your fade.
		
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This is one of the reasons I want to try and learn to draw the driver to help eliminate the slice. I can hit a 3 and 4 iron as striaght as you like and can move it both ways but my driver fades at best and slices at worst.


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## JustOne (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			This is one of the reasons I want to try and learn to draw the driver to help eliminate the slice. I can hit a 3 and 4 iron as striaght as you like and can move it both ways but my driver fades at best and slices at worst.
		
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Method 2 would suit you best for a draw... your slice probably comes from position 1 as I said above.

If you're a slicer I'd opt for playing a fade as you're naturally suited to hitting across the ball.....

Aim feet/hips/shoulders at left rough, clubface 5-10yds onto the fairway and swing along the line of your toes.... should give you 5-20yd fade ending somewhere just right of center.


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

JustOne said:



			I agree with both of those positions for a draw but it depends what you are doing with the clubface and swingpath for each.QUOTE]

clubface aiming more towards target and swingpath aimed along body line further to the right.
		
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## Alex1975 (May 2, 2012)

I was a fade/slicer for years and years. I chatted to Bob about changing my "natural" shot and as it happens Kid2 did the same thing at the same time. Bob advised that it would be hard work and take a while and advised that we control our fade better and relish it. Kid took the advice and I pushed to make the draw natural. It seemed hopeless for ages, maybe a year but now my good shots are a draw. I would think that my draw shots are a club longer than my fade shots were/are and I have put a couple of balls into hazards off the tee with the extra length with the driver.

I set up a little right but not alot and I have my club head open, this means that its all about my swing path and weight shift. I have a flat swing anyway but I play for a flat swing to help the draw. I would not move my ball position with the driver as I do with irons as I do not want to hit down on my driver.

A lot more trust is required to hit a draw for me than a fade, a fade for me is a very defensive shot.


So for me its swing path(in to straight or in to out), setup a little right and trust!!! your swing. Head back, belly forward and do not get too busy with your hands as hooks are very destructive.  


It is important for me to be able to move the ball around so I put alot of time into it, there are many golfers WAY better than me who are all about the "its not how its how many" but I like to control the ball for my own pleasure. Be aware that I am only talking about my good shots, I dont have total control of my ball and am not claiming to.


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

JustOne said:



			If you're a slicer I'd opt for playing a fade as you're naturally suited to hitting across the ball.....
		
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I only slice with my driver really. Hit the odd one with my long irons but mainly hooks are my bad shot with my irons.


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## JustOne (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			I only slice with my driver really. Hit the odd one with my long irons but mainly hooks are my bad shot with my irons.
		
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You said in your 1st post that you close your stance with your irons... that's what's causing that to happen.

To draw an iron you should stand square, to draw a driver (hit on the way up) it's _advisable_ to stand a little closed (different clubs = different alignment), as I said above I'd suggest you stick with trying to FADE your driver from an OPEN stance.... and draw your irons from a SQUARE STANCE.


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

Alex1975 said:



			I set up a little right but not alot and I have my club head open, this means that its all about my swing path and weight shift. I have a flat swing anyway but I play for a flat swing to help the draw. I would not move my ball position with the driver as I do with irons as I do not want to hit down on my driver.

A lot more trust is required to hit a draw for me than a fade, a fade for me is a very defensive shot.


So for me its swing path(in to straight or in to out), setup a little right and trust!!! your swing. Head back, belly forward and do not get too busy with your hands as hooks are very destructive.  


It is important for me to be able to move the ball around so I put alot of time into it, there are many golfers WAY better than me who are all about the "its not how its how many" but I like to control the ball for my own pleasure. Be aware that I am only talking about my good shots, I dont have total control of my ball and am not claiming to.
		
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This is eactly the type of response i was looking for. I agree being able to move the ball either way not only aids my knowledge of my swing but also my enjoyment of the game.

I actually read something recently that said address the ball with the driver clubface open. it's not something I would thought to have tried but i'll give it go next time im out.


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## Alex1975 (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			This is eactly the type of response i was looking for. I agree being able to move the ball either way not only aids my knowledge of my swing but also my enjoyment of the game.

I actually read something recently that said address the ball with the driver clubface open. it's not something I would thought to have tried but i'll give it go next time im out.
		
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The first part of a balls flight is dictated by the angle of the club face, if you want it to start right to turn left then you have to open the club head at impact but you have to have your body closing. Have a read of the ball flight laws, as I don't want to miss quote. I had a little trouble understanding a particular part of it and Justone wrote it in English for me. Once you understand them you can then stop thinking about them as they become kinda natural but it is interesting.


Oh worth saying.... you will never hit a draw if you remotely come over the top with your swing.


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

Alex1975 said:



			Have a read of the ball flight laws
		
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let's not get into the ball flight laws....thats a can of worms we dont need to open again!!


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## Alex1975 (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			let's not get into the ball flight laws....thats a can of worms we dont need to open again!!
		
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hehehe.....


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## JustOne (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			let's not get into the ball flight laws....thats a can of worms we dont need to open again!!
		
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Yeh,.... best if we just make up our own 

Good luck with your game.


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## G1BB0 (May 2, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Yeh,.... best if we just make up our own 

Good luck with your game.
		
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oooooooooooooh


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## kid2 (May 2, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I'm not saying it's impossible, just difficult.
		
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I have to echo what Bob and a few others have said.....It is bloody difficult......The thing is you might get away with it a few times and you see a nice high right to left shot but think of it this way....The last thing you want is to be missing your targets on both sides.....

Think of it....You naturally slice so the logical thing to do is to minimize this.... A controllable fade.......
How confident would you be standing over a ball after playing a left to right flight for so long and then having to aim over all the trouble that you had been staying away from?

It tough mentally and physically....As Alex has said we asked Bob for the same advice nearly at the same time.....I spent the hole of last year and a good portion of this year hitting balls left and right of my targets.....
Now the thing is in the time i spent trying to draw the ball it tightened up my swing no end......My go to shot now is Push Fade NOT a Pull Fade......

I can now draw and fade my irons and my woods except my driver.....We're having what you might call a lovers tiff at the moment but iv posted tonight in the Lounge again about it.....

There is a hell of a lot of fiddling with ball positions and stance to get a really reliable draw or fade for that matter but after all i have said i still go back to a Push fade when i really have to.....

Of the 18 holes on our course 13 of them set up for a fade off the tee.....If you naturally draw the ball you'll have an interesting round!


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Yeh,.... best if we just make up our own 

Good luck with your game.
		
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Who's making up there own?


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

Not sure if you've misunderstood but I'm not trying to change my natural shot I'm trying to learn how to play both shots so I can utilise either if the shot dictates it and also to learn more about my swing and golf technique in general.


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## kid2 (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			Not sure if you've misunderstood but I'm not trying to change my natural shot I'm trying to learn how to play both shots so I can utilise either if the shot dictates it and also to learn more about my swing and golf technique in general.
		
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No misunderstanding......But at the moment can you say with 100% positivety that you could rely on your skill to hit both of those shots when you have to.....Everything in your post points to you wanting to hit both shots......As was said its no walk in the park....

Nothing wrong with that.....But you need to learn to control those shots.......Its fine hitting them but can you do them under pressure....
I think thats what most are trying to tell you is to have a go to shot under pressure....
I can draw and fade my irons as well but the driver is an altogether different animal.....
Most amateurs slice the ball when they first start playing.....Its easier to control a slice than to teach yourself to draw a ball.

Shaft is longer, face is bigger, your swing in turn will be longer and you have to time everything perfect to square the club face......
A few degrees either side of perfect and its "Goodnight Irene"


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

kid2 said:



			No misunderstanding......But at the moment can you say with 100% positivety that you could rely on your skill to hit both of those shots when you have to.
		
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You clearly have misunderstood. I am asking for technique tips on how to draw the driver so obviously I'm not confident in hitting both shapes. I'm fairly confident doing it with my irons but not my driver. Furthermore, you seem to assume I want to change my stock/go to shot-I'm not. I'll say it again I'm trying to learn how to draw the driver to:

1. Be able to hit a draw when the hole demands it
2. To educate myself to perhaps reduce my bad shot with the driver
3. To enjoy the game more

It has been suggested that I should learn to control my fade-apart from trying to use more traits that lead to a draw how would you suggest I learn how to control my fade?

Finally sorry if this post seems abrupt but I asked a fairly simple question to begin with i.e. setup tips to hit a draw with the driver, and we're now on the 5th page of the thread and I've had about 2 responses that actually attempted to answer this. Others have either went off on a complete tangent, assumed I was trying to do something I'm not or simply ignored the question altogether. To say I'm getting frustrated is an understatement.


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## In_The_Rough (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			You clearly have misunderstood. I am asking for technique tips on how to draw the driver so obviously I'm not confident in hitting both shapes. I'm fairly confident doing it with my irons but not my driver. Furthermore, you seem to assume I want to change my stock/go to shot-I'm not. I'll say it again I'm trying to learn how to draw the driver to:

1. Be able to hit a draw when the hole demands it
2. To educate myself to perhaps reduce my bad shot with the driver
3. To enjoy the game more

It has been suggested that I should learn to control my fade-apart from trying to use more traits that lead to a draw how would you suggest I learn how to control my fade?

Finally sorry if this post seems abrupt but I asked a fairly simple question to begin with i.e. setup tips to hit a draw with the driver, and we're now on the 5th page of the thread and I've had about 2 responses that actually attempted to answer this. Others have either went off on a complete tangent, assumed I was trying to do something I'm not or simply ignored the question altogether. To say I'm getting frustrated is an understatement.
		
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Try this it should help you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsOHd0j1WZE


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Try this it should help you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsOHd0j1WZE

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thank you this video pretty much has everything I'm looking for!


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## In_The_Rough (May 2, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			thank you this video pretty much has everything I'm looking for!
		
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Good luck and practice it. Not the easiest club to hit and certainly not the easiest to move through the air in a controlled manner. Hope it works out for you


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## Slime (May 2, 2012)

Okay...................I'm sticking my head over the parapet here, but what the hell!
To hit a draw with the driver, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but do this :

1. Set up square to target.
2. Ball in line with left heel (approx).
3. *Open* the clubface fractionally.
4. Hit the ball with an *in to out* swing path.
5. Watch the ball start slightly right of target line but draw back to centre fairway whilst soaking up the oooohhh's and aaahhh's of your playing partners.
Good luck with this, I believe this is what you're looking for,

*Slime*.


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## jdchelsea (May 2, 2012)

Slime said:



			Okay...................I'm sticking my head over the parapet here, but what the hell!
To hit a draw with the driver, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but do this :

1. Set up square to target.
2. Ball in line with left heel (approx).
3. *Open* the clubface fractionally.
4. Hit the ball with an *in to out* swing path.
5. Watch the ball start slightly right of target line but draw back to centre fairway whilst soaking up the oooohhh's and aaahhh's of your playing partners.
Good luck with this, I believe this is what you're looking for,

*Slime*.
		
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That's exactly what I was looking for. I've now a few different techniques to go and try out. Thanks very much.

All it took was a bit of a rant to get some good answers


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## Slime (May 3, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			That's exactly what I was looking for. I've now a few different techniques to go and try out. Thanks very much.

All it took was a bit of a rant to get some good answers 

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Glad to help fella. 
I've had so much good advice from this forum I thought it only right to pass some on.
I hope it works for you, keep us informed,

*Slime*.


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## bobmac (May 3, 2012)

If you're off 19 and your target is 12 this year, are you hoping that by learning to hit the draw when you need it, you will achieve your target?

The reason I didn't answer your question was because what you are trying to do is very dificult and  may ruin the swing you have at the moment.

From your present swing and set up, you will need to change

your aim
possibly your grip
possibly your ball position
your swing plane
your angle of attack
your club face at impact
tee height
and last but not least, your swing path
Is it worth it to change all that to play one shot you might need once in a blue moon, and mess up your natural swing ?

You say above that the Shawn Clement video had everything you were looking for.... did he explain how to swing in to out?
If you have a natural fade, which is sometimes a slice, aiming right with a slightly open club face will not draw the ball, it will just give you massive slice unless you change your swing path to in to out and you have already read from others how hard that is to do.

I will end by wishing you good luck with your plan
As long as you understand it will be a long and difficult road with much heartache along the way (ask Aztec) and if you can, please seek professional help as you go to check you are on the right road.

To help with the change in swing path try the head cover drill below.

[video=youtube;KsrovFJ3o9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrovFJ3o9I&amp;list=UUFeb2vdftHQESr49G8ZorhQ&amp;  index=61&amp;feature=plcp[/video]

Good luck


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## mareksoultrain (May 3, 2012)

The head cover drill works a treat. Pro at john reay in coventry helped me get on plane with similar approach and I don't think I'd ever hit a draw in my life previously. 

Word of warning, if you've not got towel or think to use head cover and throw down car keys and wallet instead, prepare for the consequences. VW key fobs fly about 40yds off the toe of a 5 iron!!


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## bobmac (May 3, 2012)

mareksoultrain said:



			Word of warning, if you've not got towel or think to use head cover and throw down car keys and wallet instead, prepare for the consequences.
		
Click to expand...

The trouble with using something that small is the club could still come to the ball out to in but go over the keys.
Get yourself a big yellow car sponge, cut it in half and use them as per the video.


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## Hobbit (May 3, 2012)

My 'natural' shot is a bit of a fade. Which I can control to give a little more fade if needed. I can hit a draw, with reasonable control, on about 2 out of 10 attempts. That means 8 out of 10 occasions I'm still looking to get up and down from off the green. Hollywood shots and miraculous escapes rarely achieve the desired result. You can learn the draw and the fade on the range/practie ground but when you add in specific yardages out on the course...

By all means give it a go but bearing in mind it is your short game that is called on far more often, it is your short game that needs the vast majority of your available practice time. Develop a repeatable, stock, shot and then perfect your chipping and putting.


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## Alex1975 (May 3, 2012)

Who is Irene?


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## JustOne (May 3, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			thank you this video pretty much has everything I'm looking for!
		
Click to expand...

Interesting on that video that the draw ends up in the left rough (sounds like a hook to me if he aimed at the trees on the right) whilst he seems pretty happy with the fade, shows how even the 'pros' can't find the short stuff easily with the draw.

I'm a natural drawer of the ball... yet choose to hit a fade with driver... and I do quite well with it so I've been told 

Why do I go with fade? Not worried about having to square the face ever, can go hard at it, it launches high and carries a good distance, it's always going to move from left to right.


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## bobmac (May 3, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Interesting on that video that the draw ends up in the left rough (sounds like a hook to me if he aimed at the trees on the right)
		
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I was thinking that. Aim, right trees and miss left 
Maybe he plays links golf normally


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## JustOne (May 3, 2012)

Alex1975 said:



			Who is Irene?
		
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I'm Iren....... Spartacus!


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## JustOne (May 3, 2012)

Slime said:



			Okay...................I'm sticking my head over the parapet here, but what the hell!
To hit a draw with the driver, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but do this :

1. Set up square to target.
2. Ball in line with left heel (approx).
3. *Open* the clubface fractionally.
4. Hit the ball with an *in to out* swing path.
5. Watch the ball start slightly right of target line but draw back to centre fairway whilst soaking up the oooohhh's and aaahhh's of your playing partners.
Good luck with this, I believe this is what you're looking for,

*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Slime that works with S&T as the pattern requires a level or even descending angle of attack. If you are going to try and hit UP on it then it's advisable to close your stance slightly as the path will (very slightly) be returning leftwards (out-in) by impact if you hit up on it at all :thup:


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## jdchelsea (May 3, 2012)

bobmac said:



			If you're off 19 and your target is 12 this year, are you hoping that by learning to hit the draw when you need it, you will achieve your target?
		
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No, this is what i meant about people assuming things incorrectly. I do not think learning how to hit a draw will be the magic piece of the puzzle that will see me reach my target. i do however feel that If I can learn to hit the shot, control my stock drive off the tee more and generally understand my swing more that this will not hurt this target.




			Is it worth it to change all that to play one shot you might need once in a blue moon, and mess up your natural swing ??
		
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about changing my "normal"swing because I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that by changing a few of my setup conditions this would change my swing plane, angle of attack and clubface at impact. I assumed this because this is what has worked with my irons. i.e. change certain setup conditions and I can change my shot shape if desired.




			You say above that the Shawn Clement video had everything you were looking for.... did he explain how to swing in to out???
		
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What i meant when I said the SC vidoe had everything i needed i meant it provided information on what I am trying to educate myself in. i.e. it answered my question from my opening post. it also addressed ball position which I was particularly interested in.





			If you have a natural fade, which is sometimes a slice, aiming right with a slightly open club face will not draw the ball, it will just give you massive slice unless you change your swing path to in to out and you have already read from others how hard that is to do.
		
Click to expand...

I am aware how difficult it is to change swing path having been a slicer with all clubs in the past but, similarly to above, if my standard swing has a resonably neutral path then surely by changing setup conditions I can manipulate this swing path when required.




			I will end by wishing you good luck with your plan
As long as you understand it will be a long and difficult road with much heartache along the way (ask Aztec) and if you can, please seek professional help as you go to check you are on the right road..
		
Click to expand...

This is not a plan as such just an area of my game i seek to develop which I see as way to progress my game. I am also working on all the other aspects of my game as well. namely putting, chipping and pitching which I feel will knock more shots off my handicap than my tee shots. but i'll repeat what i said before i'm not trying to change my stock drive just to add more shots to my arsenal. I'm trying to add more shots in all my aspects of my game and trying to improve in all aspects of my game. I will not be devoting 100% of my pracice time , or anyway near that, trying to perform this shot. it may be difficult and take time to improve certain areas more than others but i'm fine with that and enjoy the challenge but I dont see why some people would seek to steer me away from trying to improve even it is hard and time consuming. 




			To help with the change in swing path try the head cover drill below.
		
Click to expand...

thank you for this, I already incorporate this drill in my practice time and will continue you to do so. it's very useful.

I will also add that the recent chipping video you added, i feel, is one of your best. when I have trouble with my chipping i know it is when I fail to hit down on the ball correctly but I was missing a good way to practice/correct this mistake...this video has hopefully solve this problem.

Dont get me wrong with this post and my previous one your posts and tips have been a fantastic help to myself, and im sure others, and they are very much appreciated.


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## JustOne (May 3, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I was thinking that. Aim, right trees and miss left 
Maybe he plays links golf normally 

Click to expand...

Out of interest, I know you can hit it both ways but isn't your stock drive a draw Bob?


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## bobmac (May 3, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Out of interest, I know you can hit it both ways but isn't your stock drive a draw Bob?
		
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It is true.
I used to see most shots as right to left and can still play the shot. However, I now prefer to hit it straight or with a slight cut.
Works for me as the 'big draw' never listened.


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## garyinderry (May 3, 2012)

being able to work the ball both ways is a massive advantage. i have only learned recently how to draw my irons. i used to be able to half kind of sometimes hook a shot when behind a tree but i can now draw in irons which is a major help when playing into the wind or if the flag is tucked back left. 

look up how to play a push draw. its easy enough to do and once it clicks you will be able to call on it when necesary. it feels like a new club in the bag!


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## garyinderry (May 3, 2012)

also, i mean push draw with the irons. i still cant do it with the driver or woods! need a bit of range time but its been all course course course these days!


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## jdchelsea (May 3, 2012)

garyinderry said:



			also, i mean push draw with the irons. i still cant do it with the driver or woods! need a bit of range time but its been all course course course these days!
		
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I can work it both ways with my irons but like yourself cant with a driver - hence the thread lol


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## bobmac (May 3, 2012)

jdchelsea said:



			I can work it both ways with my irons but like yourself cant with a driver - hence the thread lol
		
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What loft is your driver?
The reason I ask is if you are closing the face to help the draw start further left, you may end up with just low pulls.
Have you considered trying the draw with the 3 wood first?


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## jdchelsea (May 3, 2012)

bobmac said:



			What loft is your driver?
The reason I ask is if you are closing the face to help the draw start further left, you may end up with just low pulls.
Have you considered trying the draw with the 3 wood first?
		
Click to expand...

It's a 10.5 degree but I also have an older 9 degree driver. Is your thinking here that by closing the face I'll deloft the club too much resulting in the low pulls? 

I wouldn't use my 3 wood all that often to be honest because I dont trust it. They're very old and given to me by my uncle who has now passed away so I'm not even sure what shaft flex is in them etc could be senior flex. Plus I can get my 3 iron over 200 yards so rarely have the need for it. Might be a good idea to practice hitting draws with them first though.


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## kid2 (May 3, 2012)

Alex1975 said:



			Who is Irene?
		
Click to expand...



:rofl::clap::ears:

Gas man Al.......:thup:


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## Region3 (May 3, 2012)

Slime said:



			Okay...................I'm sticking my head over the parapet here, but what the hell!
To hit a draw with the driver, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but do this :

1. Set up square to target.
2. Ball in line with left heel (approx).
3. *Open* the clubface fractionally.
4. Hit the ball with an *in to out* swing path.
5. Watch the ball start slightly right of target line but draw back to centre fairway whilst soaking up the oooohhh's and aaahhh's of your playing partners.
Good luck with this, I believe this is what you're looking for,

*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

You're right in principle, but if number 4 was as easy as just telling someone to do it we wouldn't have the huge percentage of golfers that we do having a chronic slice.


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## bobmac (May 3, 2012)

but if number 4 was as easy as just telling someone to do it we wouldn't  have the huge percentage of golfers that we do having a chronic slice.
		
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Boy, isn't that the truth.

One of the single most difficult thing to change in a golf swing.... the out to in swing path


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## Slime (May 3, 2012)

Region3 said:



			You're right in principle, but if number 4 was as easy as just telling someone to do it we wouldn't have the huge percentage of golfers that we do having a chronic slice. 

Click to expand...

Hey, I never said it was easy.
I've been trying since December last year & have just about got a decent level of consistency with my irons.
My driver is a different ball game altogether!
I'll probably settle for a fade with my driver as that'll be easier for me to control.

*Slime*.


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## Brookesy (May 3, 2012)

I used to hit a slice with my driver but turned it into a nice little fade, now i hit it straight and cant hit a fade to save my life. Never been able to hit a draw normally comes out as a low, slingy, hooky/draw which isnt great at all, something i really need to improve in my game.


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## nickd499 (May 3, 2012)

My bad shot with a driver (90%) of them..start right then go way right. I can sometimes add a 100yards to my second shot it goes that far right. Is this a slice/what possibly causes it?  I believe i've seen on here that a slice is something that starts left and spins off to the right. I've started to be able to draw my irons ever so slightly with a little trigger movement at the start of my downswing but this doesn't seem to want to work with the big stick.


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