# Rugby Thread



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2021)

Well it’s on its way

France look like they are going to be very dangerous

Italy going to be the whipping boys once again

Big game later with Scotland having a great chance to win at Twickenham for the first time in a long time

Not sure I see a grand slam this year

The commentary from ITV - sorry but I know companies are trying to address the balance with female commentators but the lady they have brought in is horrific - truly horrific 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Captainron (Feb 6, 2021)

ANYONE BUT ENGLAND!!!!


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 6, 2021)

Captainron said:



			ANYONE BUT ENGLAND!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Get back to the cricket.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 6, 2021)

As is usual with Italy, it is vital to pile on the points. France need to crack on, and get points on the board. It will make a difference, as I also dont see a slam this year.

Try... France.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 6, 2021)

Italy are tragic


----------



## Imurg (Feb 6, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Italy are tragic
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure they're even that good....


----------



## toyboy54 (Feb 6, 2021)

Captainron said:



			ANYONE BUT ENGLAND!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Seconded/thirded/fourthed/fifthed/etc..........nothing personal folks-honest!
Jimbo


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 6, 2021)

Socially distanced National Anthems - really?!


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 6, 2021)

Social distancing during the Anthems! What is the point?😂


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Socially distanced National Anthems - really?!
		
Click to expand...

Snap!😁


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 6, 2021)

What's with the off white jackets that looked like they'd been in the wrong washing pile 💩 🤮


----------



## Crow (Feb 6, 2021)

Anyone but Scotland.


----------



## IanM (Feb 6, 2021)

Good start by Scotland...


----------



## IanM (Feb 6, 2021)

Shocking start by England.  

Do they know the 6 Nations started today?


----------



## Slime (Feb 6, 2021)

I'm not a rugby fanatic, but I'm desperately trying to get enthused ............................. but this is just awful.
Are England going for a record number of penalties conceded?
Can someone tell me that it'll get better in the second half, please?

Oh, ANYONE BUT SCOTLAND !!!!!


----------



## Rlburnside (Feb 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			I'm not a rugby fanatic, but I'm desperately trying to get enthused ............................. but this is just awful.
Are England going for a record number of penalties conceded?
Can someone tell me that it'll get better in the second half, please?

Oh, ANYONE BUT SCOTLAND !!!!!
		
Click to expand...

Don’t worry Scotland should have been way ahead in that half it will come back and bite them. 😂


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 6, 2021)

The referee reminding Scotland twice that the "clock is on" - like they are going to care with 1 man in the bin


----------



## Slime (Feb 6, 2021)

If Scotland win, will they be then known as 'The Golden Gussets'?


----------



## Rlburnside (Feb 6, 2021)

Well deserved win for Scotland


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2021)

Scotland have been excellent today , dominated England in every area of the game , fully deserved rewards for the way they approached the game , England outplayed.


----------



## fundy (Feb 6, 2021)

Well played Scotland, deserved victory against a truly awful England

Surely this has to be the end of the road for Eddie Jones now. Surely.....


----------



## Captainron (Feb 6, 2021)

YES!!! England lose.


----------



## IanG (Feb 6, 2021)

get in


----------



## williamalex1 (Feb 6, 2021)

An old stock photo,  I've not had the chance to use it recently


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well played Scotland, deserved victory against a truly awful England

Surely this has to be the end of the road for Eddie Jones now. Surely.....
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about Jones out, just drop Slade as a centre and Farrel as captain at least, if not altogether.


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 6, 2021)

Great performance from Scotland


----------



## CliveW (Feb 6, 2021)

Pity there isn't a crowd to see Scotland lift the Calcutta Cup, or Princess Anne presenting it.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 6, 2021)

Great win, I think we also won 150 years ago when we hosted the first ever International match.
Rugby has come home.


----------



## OntheteeGavin (Feb 6, 2021)

Has Young got incrimating photos of Eddie? Too slow. Always has been.

Farrell attack wise....

No plan b.


----------



## rudebhoy (Feb 6, 2021)

Worst England team I've seen in a long time. Kept expecting them to come alive but it never happened. Scotland should have won more comfortably, last 5 minutes were a bit nerve wracking even though England never got near our line, kept expecting us to do something stupid and end up with another glorious failure.


----------



## OntheteeGavin (Feb 6, 2021)

All credit to Scotland.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 6, 2021)

Depressing. Ben Youngs at his dithering worst and then Dan Robson had a mare. Slade - never worth a spot for me...lightweight. Poor discipline cost us but overall we were just poor...so much for the 6 Nations alleviating some lockdown malaise.


----------



## FELL75 (Feb 6, 2021)

Bit rusty, but short of ideas. Scotland seemed the opposite and deserved the win. Difficult watch without atmosphere, bit like the football...


----------



## williamalex1 (Feb 6, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Depressing. Ben Youngs at his dithering worst and then Dan Robson had a mare. Slade - never worth a spot for me...lightweight. Poor discipline cost us but overall we were just poor...so much for the 6 Nations alleviating some lockdown malaise.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## fundy (Feb 6, 2021)

FELL75 said:



			Bit rusty, but short of ideas. Scotland seemed the opposite and deserved the win. Difficult watch without atmosphere, bit like the football...
		
Click to expand...


If thats a bit rusty I hate to think how bad an utter shocker is


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 6, 2021)

England were awful and the scoreline flattered.them.
Time to.drop some of the prime donnas.
I've said for a while now Farrell should be dropped.
The Saracens contingent were rusty having played no meaningful rugby, saying that I still think Itoje would walk into anyside.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 6, 2021)

williamalex1 said:





Click to expand...

Careful...you have to play Italy remember


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 6, 2021)

spongebob59 said:



			The Saracens contingent were rusty having played no meaningful rugby, saying that I still think Itoje would walk into anyside.
		
Click to expand...

Make Itoje captain. He plays the same way Johnson did, by example and always 100%.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 7, 2021)

Get possession, kick, lose possession 🙄


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 7, 2021)

Best in hand kicking that I have ever seen in any rugby match from Hoggy.
He was quite superb.

We need a decent scrum half though, only weakness in the team IMVHO.
Third choice hooker did well.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 7, 2021)

I think we’re over doing how good Scotland were...England were woeful and still only lost by 5 points.
Hogg was at his best and others played well.
But I don’t see Scotland getting that much help from the other top teams (Fra, Ire, Wal), and I don’t see them holding onto that slender a lead against them.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 7, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I think we’re over doing how good Scotland were...England were woeful and still only lost by 5 points.
Hogg was at his best and others played well.
But I don’t see Scotland getting that much help from the other top teams (Fra, Ire, Wal), and I don’t see them holding onto that slender a lead against them.
		
Click to expand...

Agree that England were poor but with their strength in depth they are still a decent side.
Townsend in his pre match interview said England could put out a dozen back rows of that standard and about 5 front fives.
Scotland  should have had  more points but it was a tight game and chances were few.
France look good with a young side, should be a good tournament this year.


----------



## azazel (Feb 7, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I think we’re over doing how good Scotland were...England were woeful and still only lost by 5 points.
Hogg was at his best and others played well.
But I don’t see Scotland getting that much help from the other top teams (Fra, Ire, Wal), and I don’t see them holding onto that slender a lead against them.
		
Click to expand...

Every beaten team thinks they lost because they were bad, whereas the winners think they won because they were great. Scotland didn’t give England a second’s peace right from the kick off and didn’t allow England to play.


----------



## fundy (Feb 7, 2021)

azazel said:



			Every beaten team thinks they lost because they were bad, whereas the winners think they won because they were great. Scotland didn’t give England a second’s peace right from the kick off and didn’t allow England to play.
		
Click to expand...


hardly explains Englands horrendous game plan, awful kicking game or complete lack of discipline throughout the game. If you think that was all Scotlands doing then youre going to get a shock in some other games


----------



## azazel (Feb 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			hardly explains Englands horrendous game plan, awful kicking game or complete lack of discipline throughout the game. If you think that was all Scotlands doing then youre going to get a shock in some other games
		
Click to expand...

The only “shock” I’ll get from the other games is if we don’t have at least one bad one ourselves and give more weight to that as a reason for losing than giving credit to the winners as it’s generally what sports teams and fans do.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			hardly explains Englands horrendous game plan, awful kicking game or complete lack of discipline throughout the game. If you think that was all Scotlands doing then youre going to get a shock in some other games
		
Click to expand...

England gave away somewhere in the region of 10 penalties in the first 20 mins. Ref was quite kind to them as well and should have sin binned at least a couple of players for persistent fouling.
Was that Scottish pressure, England being tardy or as I think a mixture of both.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 7, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			England gave away somewhere in the region of 10 penalties in the first 20 mins. Ref was quite kind to them as well and should have sin binned at least a couple of players for persistent fouling.
Was that Scottish pressure, England being tardy or as I think a mixture of both.
		
Click to expand...

Included in the first 7 or 8 penalties were: Curry went in at the side at a ruck when we were putting a kick receiver under pressure, and also changed his bind in a maul right under the refs nose, Itoje jumped through a ruck when Scotland were in their own 22, and Hill went over the top and sealed off when Itoje had won the ball after his charge down, on the Scotland line.
So it wasn’t all Scotland putting England under pressure, and wasn’t all in the England half.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 7, 2021)

This Wales v Ireland game should hopefully be a good one. 

Back lines of both teams like to run strong and they have some skills to back it up. 

I do wish that Ireland had developed a new flyhalf that could take Sextons spot and build to the future.


----------



## Val (Feb 7, 2021)

Well, I've sobered up at last.

Yesterday was the most complete performance I've seen from Scotland and we thoroughly deserved the win. England's game plan was obvious from the team selection, bish bash bosh and kick and it failed because Scotland didn't let them get any time qith the ball.

That win will mean nothing if we don't win our home games, Wales at Murrayfield next.............time to dream of our first 6 Nations championship?


----------



## Captainron (Feb 7, 2021)

That red card is not what this game needed


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2021)

No. It's going to be as boring as yesterday's games now.


----------



## CliveW (Feb 7, 2021)

JamesR said:



			But I don’t see Scotland getting that much help from the other top teams (Fra, Ire, Wal), and I don’t see them holding onto that slender a lead against them.
		
Click to expand...

I don't care about the Six Nations as long as they are enjoyable. It's the Calcutta Cup that really matters to me.


----------



## Imurg (Feb 7, 2021)

Ireland are bossing this.
Half decent game


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2021)

Wales will win this, but to be down at this stage is embarrassing.


----------



## IanM (Feb 7, 2021)

Credit to the men in green... 2nd half will be interesting.    Welsh neighbour didn't give me any stick yesterday,  bet he's waiting to see what happens today


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2021)

I'm not sure Martin Johnson's response to the red card was quite on message. A sadly old school view.


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 7, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well played Scotland, deserved victory against a truly awful England

*Surely this has to be the end of the road for Eddie Jones now. Surely....*.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully...


----------



## IanM (Feb 7, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not sure Martin Johnson's response to the red card was quite on message. A sadly old school view.
		
Click to expand...

Honest you mean?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2021)

IanM said:



			Honest you mean?
		
Click to expand...

I thought he suggested it was nothing, that's how it came across. Okay in his day, what's the fuss.

A cheap head shot, we are supposed to be moving on from that aren't we?

Maybe I read him wrong but is how it came across to me.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 7, 2021)

To our Scottish friends  Finn Russell...a liability or must pick??


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2021)

A cracking game in Cardiff. Not sure anyone will come off the pitch with much left in their legs. Players are dropping like flies.

Has Alun Wyn Jones ever had a bad game? He is immense.


----------



## azazel (Feb 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			To our Scottish friends  Finn Russell...a liability or must pick??
		
Click to expand...

An absolutely nailed on, 100% first pick. For the Lions this summer, not just Scotland. Not many teams in the world - club or international - who wouldnt pick him.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 7, 2021)

Why didn't Wales just keep the ball for 15 seconds then boot it out?


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2021)

As predicted, Wales win, but that is poor against 14 for so long.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 7, 2021)

Poor kick from Green.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 7, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Why didn't Wales just keep the ball for 15 seconds then boot it out? 

Click to expand...

The coach should tear a strip off for that. It was amateur stuff.

It could have been worse, the Irish lad who kicked out at the end 😳

Hell of an effort with a man short for most of the game.


----------



## Imurg (Feb 7, 2021)

God only knows how many England would have lost by.....


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			To our Scottish friends  Finn Russell...a liability or must pick??
		
Click to expand...

Are you serious Amanda, 
He is recognised by many as the best No10 in the world at the moment.

Matt Dawson comparing Scotland to New Zealand, steady on now Matt


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are you serious Amanda,
*He is recognised by many as the best No10 in the world at the moment.*

Matt Dawson comparing Scotland to New Zealand, steady on now Matt

Click to expand...

Reckon Mo’unga Barrett and Ntamack may have something to say about that


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 7, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are you serious Amanda,
He is recognised by many as the best No10 in the world at the moment.

Matt Dawson comparing Scotland to New Zealand, steady on now Matt

Click to expand...

On yesterday's performance - yes serious!


----------



## rudebhoy (Feb 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			On yesterday's performance - yes serious!
		
Click to expand...

I thought Russell was pretty average yesterday, kicked poorly, put a couple straight into touch, missed a pretty easy penalty, stupid last minute play going for the drop goal when the sensible thing was to hold on to the ball and recycle until time up. The trip that saw him in the bin was pretty stupid as well.

I am a fan of his, but he did not have a great game yesterday.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			I thought Russell was pretty average yesterday, kicked poorly, put a couple straight into touch, missed a pretty easy penalty, stupid last minute play going for the drop goal when the sensible thing was to hold on to the ball and recycle until time up. The trip that saw him in the bin was pretty stupid as well.

I am a fan of his, but he did not have a great game yesterday.
		
Click to expand...

I've not really paid much attention to him/Scottish rugby but saw his name and recalled a bust up with Townsend so googled that and then felt he did some stupid things and his reaction to them was a bit "oh well". I guess when a player is called "maverick" and "mecurial" they can sometimes fall on the wrong side of that and actually be a liability.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			I've not really paid much attention to him/Scottish rugby but saw his name and recalled a bust up with Townsend so googled that and then felt he did some stupid things and his reaction to them was a bit "oh well". I guess when a player is called "maverick" and "mecurial" they can sometimes fall on the wrong side of that and actually be a liability.
		
Click to expand...

He reminds me of exactly what Townsend is like , on his game no one can touch and he appears to be exactly what you say - mercurial , but you would have him in your lions team etc because he will produce magic


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Feb 7, 2021)

Back on track please 
Thank you


----------



## Imurg (Feb 7, 2021)

On Russell's trip...
I'm not certain and I know rules change but I have a feeling a few years ago it would been a red card offence. 
Anyone able to confirm or deny?


----------



## JamesR (Feb 7, 2021)

I imagine the cover behind would have saved him from a red.

I don’t remember if a trip has ever been an automatic red.


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 7, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I imagine the cover behind would have saved him from a red.

I don’t remember if a trip has ever been an automatic red.
		
Click to expand...

I don't believe so, save where it denies a clear tryscoring opportunity.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Feb 7, 2021)

Thread tidied up


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 7, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			I thought Russell was pretty average yesterday, kicked poorly, put a couple straight into touch, missed a pretty easy penalty, stupid last minute play going for the drop goal when the sensible thing was to hold on to the ball and recycle until time up. The trip that saw him in the bin was pretty stupid as well.

I am a fan of his, but he did not have a great game yesterday.
		
Click to expand...

Changing tack slightly, he always makes me wistful for what England missed out on with Cipriani. Yes, both have the occasional moments of madness, but their perception of what is possible is on a different level. 

I don't think he will start for the Lions. Gatland is naturally safety first and Russell does have a frailty with the boot. But I reckon he will be the ultimate bench player.


----------



## Val (Feb 7, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			To our Scottish friends  Finn Russell...a liability or must pick??
		
Click to expand...

Must


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 8, 2021)

Scotland...........we close the pubs for 9 months and we qualify for the Euros and win the Calcutta Cup.......just saying.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 10, 2021)

Unbelievable that folk are calling for Owen Farrell to be dropped from the England team. England were terrible up front and the ball to the backs was often slow which gave the Scots loads of time to set up and defend. Conditions weren’t great either and Jones had a plan to put the Scottish back 3 under territorial pressure. Hardly the recipe for a flowing game.  

He’s a guaranteed starter for the Lions tour. 

I just don’t get it at all


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 10, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Unbelievable that folk are calling for Owen Farrell to be dropped from the England team. England were terrible up front and the ball to the backs was often slow which gave the Scots loads of time to set up and defend. Conditions weren’t great either and Jones had a plan to put the Scottish back 3 under territorial pressure. Hardly the recipe for a flowing game. 

He’s a guaranteed starter for the Lions tour.

I just don’t get it at all
		
Click to expand...


The phenomenon that is Itoje aside, the Saracens contingent were well below par... IMHO that is due to lack of 'match sharpness'... Not sure/convinced that be returned through training sessions alone...


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 10, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Unbelievable that folk are calling for Owen Farrell to be dropped from the England team. England were terrible up front and the ball to the backs was often slow which gave the Scots loads of time to set up and defend. Conditions weren’t great either and Jones had a plan to put the Scottish back 3 under territorial pressure. Hardly the recipe for a flowing game. 

He’s a guaranteed starter for the Lions tour.

I just don’t get it at all
		
Click to expand...

So, the case for him to be dropped - which, for the record, I am making as an intellectual argument rather than my own stated view (because I am unsure how I feel on the issue) - goes something like this...
1. Something is not working in England's game plan, and has not worked since they lost Scott Wiesmantel after the WC.  There is a world of talent available, but too often the reliance on kicking for territory means that lots of it is wasted.  Ollie Lawrence has four caps now, and has received four passes.  Anthony Watson may not even have seen that many.
2. Whilst this is in part due to Eddie's game plan, the fact is that the fly half has to direct play, and should at the very minimum spot clear multi man overlaps.  Farrell butchered three on Saturday, including one when Russell was in the bin.  He did similar in the Autumn Nations Cup.
3. Sooner or later his own frustration at the state of his game is going to result in a red card - he could have been in the bin again on Saturday for tackling with his shoulder.
4. His kicking from the tee has been trending downward for two years now.
5. Sooner or later we need to see what some of the young guns can do - not just Ford, but Smith, Umaga, Joe Simmonds.  Now is the time to blood them, and use Farrell either as an option at 12 or from the bench.

I think the major issue is that he can't be captain, kicker and 10.  It isn't working.  So either he goes to 12 permanently (in which case Henry Slade might have to be packed off to balance the back line) or Itoje takes the armband.


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 10, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			The phenomenon that is Itoje aside, the Saracens contingent were well below par... IMHO that is due to lack of 'match sharpness'... Not sure/convinced that be returned through training sessions alone...
		
Click to expand...

Miles on the clock?  They have all played a lot of rugby, or missed a lot through serious injury, over the last four years.  George wasn't THAT bad, and Daly is being asked to play in at best his third best position mind...

Big Billy is the worry.  When we have two Curry's, Underhill, Wilson, Earl, Willis, Ludlam, Dombrandt and Sam Simmonds (hell, Zak Mercer has gone abroad because he can't even make a list of possibles!) it might be time to ask him to rediscover his form with Sarries.


----------



## Val (Feb 10, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Unbelievable that folk are calling for Owen Farrell to be dropped from the England team. England were terrible up front and the ball to the backs was often slow which gave the Scots loads of time to set up and defend. Conditions weren’t great either and Jones had a plan to put the Scottish back 3 under territorial pressure. Hardly the recipe for a flowing game. 

He’s a guaranteed starter for the Lions tour.

I just don’t get it at all
		
Click to expand...

He is most definitely not a guaranteed starter for the Lions, he's not the best 10 in England never mind GB&I. He should concentrate on being a 12. Ford is far better for England IMO.


----------



## Val (Feb 10, 2021)

Grizzly said:



			Miles on the clock?  They have all played a lot of rugby, or missed a lot through serious injury, over the last four years.  George wasn't THAT bad, and Daly is being asked to play in at best his third best position mind...

Big Billy is the worry.  When we have two Curry's, Underhill, Wilson, Earl, Willis, Ludlam, Dombrandt and Sam Simmonds (hell, Zak Mercer has gone abroad because he can't even make a list of possibles!) it might be time to ask him to rediscover his form with Sarries.
		
Click to expand...

He fits the Jones mould, big and huge but other than that he doesn't do much. It's exactly why Jones won't give Simmonds a run, he's not big enough for him despite being a fantastic player.


----------



## Val (Feb 10, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Scotland...........we close the pubs for 9 months and we qualify for the Euros and win the Calcutta Cup.......just saying.

Click to expand...

Don't need to shut pubs to have the Calcutta Cup, we've had it for 3 out the last 4 6 nations


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 10, 2021)

Val said:



			He is most definitely not a guaranteed starter for the Lions, he's not the best 10 in England never mind GB&I. He should concentrate on being a 12. Ford is far better for England IMO.
		
Click to expand...

I think he's probably pretty close for the Lions, but I suspect it will be at 12. He fits the way Gatland wants to play.


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 10, 2021)

Val said:



			He fits the Jones mould, big and huge but other than that he doesn't do much. It's exactly why Jones won't give Simmonds a run, he's not big enough for him despite being a fantastic player.
		
Click to expand...

Fully fit and in form, of course he would be in, but he is nowhere near and if we are honest, has not been for some time. 

The argument for his inclusion is clear enough I guess - England's game is based on forward power and big hitters to create space for their playmakers. At present, we've gone from a squad featuring Manu, Ben Te'o, Joe Cocanasiga etc to one where we are perhaps one or two ball carriers light. So, Billy. 

Is Simmons a better bet? He wouldn't be more than a bench player for me because he is another speed runner rather than a yard making tackle breaker.  If we think Curry and Underhill are our 6,7 combo, then 8 would need to be Dombrandt or at a push Ben Earl. I do think it is underestimated how much playing in an Exeter back row with the likes of Don Armand, Sam Skinner, Dave Ewers, Joanne Vermeulen etc - big units all - makes a difference to his game!


----------



## Captainron (Feb 10, 2021)

Val said:



			He is most definitely not a guaranteed starter for the Lions, he's not the best 10 in England never mind GB&I. He should concentrate on being a 12. Ford is far better for England IMO.
		
Click to expand...

He will start for the Lions. Not sure which position though.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Feb 10, 2021)

Captainron said:



			He will start for the Lions. Not sure which position though.
		
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this. Not sure it'll be deserved but it will happen.

However, I've been of the opinion for a few years that Farrell just doesn't get the back line moving enough, he's too robotic and unable to adapt to play whats in front of him. He's fine behind a monster pack getting him clean, quick ball (sarries and england occasionally) and with big ball carriers getting him on the front foot, but I don't feel he can create something out of nothing like some of the other options for England and the lions.


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 10, 2021)

HeftyHacker said:



			I'd agree with this. Not sure it'll be deserved but it will happen.

I've been of the opinion for a few years that Farrell just doesn't get the back line moving enough, he's too robotic and unable to adapt to play whats in front of him. He's fine behind a monster pack getting him clean, quick ball and with big ball carriers getting him on the front foot, but I don't feel he can create something out of nothing like some of the other options for England and the lions.
		
Click to expand...

As a second playmaker and defensive coordinator at 12, I get it. 

I think he struggles to be a sole playmaker. Most of his top level rugby has been with either Ford or Andy Goode alongside him.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 10, 2021)

Val said:



			Don't need to shut pubs to have the Calcutta Cup, we've had it for 3 out the last 4 6 nations
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I should have said at Twickenham.
I shall never forget the last time that happened as I was in a packed Wiltshire clubhouse just having enjoyed a victory for team Scotland in the club's golf Home Internationals,
We did enjoy that day.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes, I should have said at Twickenham.
I shall never forget the last time that happened as I was in a packed Wiltshire clubhouse just having enjoyed a victory for team Scotland in the club's golf Home Internationals,
We did enjoy that day.
		
Click to expand...

I was still living at home and watched the match with my mum (though she'd have been flitting between living room and kitchen)...my dad wasn't that bothered about sport and he'd most likely have been in the garage building furniture - so the win last weekend was for me a lovely little time-machine back to simpler days


----------



## Val (Feb 11, 2021)

Grizzly said:



			As a second playmaker and defensive coordinator at 12, I get it.

I think he struggles to be a sole playmaker. Most of his top level rugby has been with either Ford or Andy Goode alongside him.
		
Click to expand...

I actually believe he's hugely over rated as a 10, I think England have at least 3 better options than him. He's a safe pair of hands when it's working up front but when not he's lost. There's a reason why on the 2017 Lions tour we lost with him at 10 on test 1 and won then drew with Sexton at 10


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 11, 2021)

Val said:



			I actually believe he's hugely over rated as a 10, I think England have at least 3 better options than him. He's a safe pair of hands when it's working up front but when not he's lost. There's a reason why on the 2017 Lions tour we lost with him at 10 on test 1 and won then drew with Sexton at 10
		
Click to expand...


Hmmm... I suspect Sonny Bill's red card was the biggest factor, no?


----------



## Imurg (Feb 13, 2021)

England can't play as badly today can th....oh, wait a minute....


----------



## paddyc (Feb 13, 2021)

Farrell having a poor and indisciplined game today. Have to question  whether on form he deserves  to be in the side!


----------



## Imurg (Feb 13, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Farrell having a poor and indisciplined game today. Have to question  whether on form he deserves  to be in the side!
		
Click to expand...

I was almost hoping he'd get binned for that tackle a few minutes ago.
The Guy's a thug and, at the moment, he's not playing particularly well


----------



## Captainron (Feb 13, 2021)

Yup. He’s really out of form at the moment. Might be time to pull someone else on. England won’t lose from here.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I was almost hoping he'd get binned for that tackle a few minutes ago.
The Guy's a thug and, at the moment, he's not playing particularly well
		
Click to expand...

He was very lucky there. I'd have binned him.

England look disjointed still. 25 minutes left to get some game time and flow to their play.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2021)

Farrell did nothing wrong there...are we hoping to make rugby a non-contact sport?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He was very lucky there. I'd have binned him.

England look disjointed still. 25 minutes left to get some game time and flow to their play.
		
Click to expand...

Binned him ? There was nothing in it at all , not even a penalty offence 

Got to feel sorry for Willis , not long back from a serious knee injury and that looks another bad one


----------



## paddyc (Feb 13, 2021)

Not binable but late so penalty and try disallowed


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2021)

paddyc said:



			Not binable but late so penalty and try disallowed
		
Click to expand...

The red saw nothing wrong, in fact I don’t think he could see what he being shown


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Binned him ? There was nothing in it at all , not even a penalty offence

Got to feel sorry for Willis , not long back from a serious knee injury and that looks another bad one
		
Click to expand...

It was a cheap hit he didn't need to make. He is unnecessarily keen on them.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was a cheap hit he didn't need to make. He is unnecessarily keen on them.
		
Click to expand...

Not his biggest fan, (he plays for Sarries, enough said), but it looked like he stumbled a bit, before running into the back of the Italian. Not 100% sure it was meant.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was a cheap hit he didn't need to make. He is unnecessarily keen on them.
		
Click to expand...

I think rugby isn’t the sport for you if you don’t like that sort of thing.
It goes on all the time.


----------



## Imurg (Feb 13, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Not his biggest fan, (he plays for Sarries, enough said), but it looked like he stumbled a bit, before running into the back of the Italian. Not 100% sure it was meant.
		
Click to expand...

Oh I don't know..I think he knew exactly what he was doing.
He's always having digs here and there.
Ref saw nothing in it ...this time.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Oh I don't know..I think he knew exactly what he was doing.
He's always having digs here and there.
Ref saw nothing in it ...this time.
		
Click to expand...

There’s a reason he saw nothing


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I think rugby isn’t the sport for you if you don’t like that sort of thing.
It goes on all the time.
		
Click to expand...

Does that make it right? A sly dig here and there? A cheeky late one? Martin Johnson was reminiscing last week about such things 🙄. 

The co commentator, or commentator, today was mentioning how the sport was trying to bring an end to chest tackles as they often lead to head knocks, as this did.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 13, 2021)

I do like Andrew Cotter as a commentator


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 13, 2021)

Really hoping Scotland follow up last weeks great performance with another good one this evening 🤞


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			I do like Andrew Cotter as a commentator
		
Click to expand...

Especially about his Labrador's antics


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 13, 2021)

Good 1st half from Scotland, just some silly pens to let Wales in at the end,


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 13, 2021)

The ref is starting to get on my nerves here. Just make a decision. Every  time, it's go upstairs for a review, and his original decision is correct. Just go with the on field decision, and crack on with an entertaining game.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 13, 2021)

Red. Same as O Mahony last week. Tough game now.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 13, 2021)

Great game, I'm sort of shouting for Scotland now, gripping stuff.


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 13, 2021)

Hogg is having a great game.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Great game, I'm sort of shouting for Scotland now, gripping stuff.
		
Click to expand...

Give yourself a slap 😳.

It is a cracking game though. The Welsh winger is an absolute star.


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 13, 2021)

Disappointed, all turned when gave away pen when attacking in Welsh 22 just before half time


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 13, 2021)

Think I'll be hitting the red wine hard tonight 😭


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 13, 2021)

Imurg said:



			England can't play as badly today can th....oh, wait a minute....

Click to expand...

They weren't quite that bad, all things considered - there were even some signs of players thinking on their feet in getting the ball out wide around such a tight defence - and Ford made better decisions from 10.  I'm not sure what to make of Farrell's game - he led the defence quite well in teh second half, and shouldn't be criticised too harshly for the knock ons because they were all bang average passes.  But you do wish we'd been able to see what Lawrence did in that game.

I also thought the biggest take away was how vibrant looked with Dan Robson on the field.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 13, 2021)

Fabulous game, well played both sides.
I think Wales have found a new star.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 13, 2021)

Went right down to the end. Another red card keeps Wales in the game. They have to worry about how leaky they are despite having more men on the field. I think France might be the title contenders


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 13, 2021)

Yeah, hard to see past France for the title


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 13, 2021)

France have only played Italy. Let's wait and see how they get on tomorrow. A convincing win, and yes, favourites for sure.


----------



## IanM (Feb 13, 2021)

A few quid on Wales has paid dividends.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 13, 2021)

rats! ☹️


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2021)

England v France, in the last week, for the title 👍


----------



## Captainron (Feb 14, 2021)

Irish set piece is doing really well here


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2021)

Would anyone else have given that as an Irish try? It looked okay in slow mo to my eyes.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 14, 2021)

JamesR said:



			England v France, in the last week, for the title 👍
		
Click to expand...

Let’s hope England are just also rams for 5th place


----------



## Captainron (Feb 14, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Would anyone else have given that as an Irish try? It looked okay in slow mo to my eyes.
		
Click to expand...

Right foot hit the line. Left one just missed it. All happened before he placed the ball


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Right foot hit the line. Left one just missed it. All happened before he placed the ball
		
Click to expand...

They've just shown another clip that shows that exactly as you have described 👍. I only saw the left foot before then.


----------



## Imurg (Feb 14, 2021)

For all the running, puffing and blowing going on in Ireland neither team seem to be getting anywhere with the ball in the hand.
Its all a bit messy


----------



## Captainron (Feb 14, 2021)

Certainly been some good close finishes this 6 nations (if you’re not playing Italy that is)


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 14, 2021)

Win for France, but I have not seen much quality in this 6N. Australia, Boks, and NZ won't see much to worry about here.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 14, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Let’s hope England are just also rams for 5th place
		
Click to expand...

Scotland have had their win, against a proper side, for the decade, Wales can only beat 14, Ireland have lost twice, so it can only be an England/France winner takes all finale.


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 14, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Win for France, but I have not seen much quality in this 6N. Australia, Boks, and NZ won't see much to worry about here.
		
Click to expand...

On the other hand, none of them have been entering performances for the ages of late...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 15, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Scotland have had their win, against a proper side, for the decade, Wales can only beat 14, Ireland have lost twice, so it can only be an England/France winner takes all finale.
		
Click to expand...

...and not for the first time in history the Scot is left with a choice between the Auld Alliance and the Auld Enemy   For me it would have to be the Auld...


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 15, 2021)

Jobs done, 
Scotland has beaten England again and now the other matches are just for fun.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 17, 2021)

How naive are Fagerson and the Scotland leadership?
He now faces a longer ban than O’Mahoney, because he didn’t plead guilty for the red card element of his hearing.

The authorities were never going to go against the ref’s decision. So why not plead guilty, say sorry and get another week knocked off the ban!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2021)

It seems it’s incompetent official day today - 🤦‍♂️


----------



## hairball_89 (Feb 27, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It seems it’s incompetent official day today - 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

One of the worst halves I've seen from an official in a long time. Which is saying something!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2021)

You have to wonder what replays the officials were watching there? That was very poor.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 27, 2021)

Have they borrowed the video review officials from the Indian test cricket?


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 27, 2021)

It's just too hard to watch - I'm so close to turning over! England have struggled enough without some French idiot making it even more difficult


----------



## harpo_72 (Feb 27, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			It's just too hard to watch - I'm so close to turning over! England have struggled enough without some French idiot making it even more difficult 

Click to expand...

They should have demanded the ball for the restart and kicked to touch ... don’t bother arguing play the game.. if the ref did not let them restart then have the discussion.. but it won’t yield anything as the rugby ref decision is final. Which is correct the only problem is no one likes the English.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 27, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			They should have demanded the ball for the restart and kicked to touch ... don’t bother arguing play the game.. if the ref did not let them restart then have the discussion.. but it won’t yield anything as the rugby ref decision is final. Which is correct the only problem is n*o one likes the English.*

Click to expand...

True. Feels like we never get the debatable decisions. Welsh have only played 14 men and now they're playing with 16!


----------



## harpo_72 (Feb 27, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			True. Feels like we never get the debatable decisions. Welsh have only played 14 men and now they're playing with 16!
		
Click to expand...

Welsh have always got away with dubious play, that’s why beating them is so good. They never win when the ref starts to pull them up


----------



## Captainron (Feb 27, 2021)

Superb result. Great week really

England got humped in the cricket and then this. A B E!


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2021)

England might not of had the rub of the green but they were back in the game and then bounced 3 kickable penalties.  They did for themselves.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 27, 2021)

Loved that French referee, he totally got England players rule bending/breaking and questioning/bullying the ref. They have been playing on the edge of the rules for years.
Look at the number of penalties they gave away against Scotland.
Looks like the 6 Nations refs have been told to tighten up.
Such a pathetic load of sour grapes coming from the England squad when their own rule braking was a facture in their defeat.

Well done Wales on winning the Triple Crown.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Loved that French referee, he totally got England players rule bending/breaking and questioning/bullying the ref. They have been playing on the edge of the rules for years.
Look at the number of penalties they gave away against Scotland.
Looks like the 6 Nations refs have been told to tighten up.
Such a pathetic load of sour grapes coming from the England squad when their own rule braking was a facture in their defeat.

Well done Wales on winning the Triple Crown.

Click to expand...

There have been no squad members complaining,  get a life.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 27, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			There have been no squad members complaining,  get a life.
		
Click to expand...

Can't help himself.


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Scotland have had their win, against a proper side, for the decade, Wales can only beat 14, Ireland have lost twice, so it can only be an England/France winner takes all finale.
		
Click to expand...

You were saying


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2021)

England deserved to lose today, they were dreadful in the second half. That said, shocker from the ref for that first try


----------



## harpo_72 (Feb 27, 2021)

Val said:



			England deserved to lose today, they were dreadful in the second half. That said, shocker from the ref for that first try
		
Click to expand...

But that shocker should not have unsettled them.
They blew hot and cold and the discipline needs to be put back. I know there is an emotion but they should just play the game and keep quiet.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 27, 2021)

Val said:



			England deserved to lose today, they were dreadful in the second half. That said, shocker from the ref for that first try
		
Click to expand...

Would they have had such a dreadful second half if they hadn't been screwed over by the referee in the first half?


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 27, 2021)

Val said:



			England deserved to lose today, they were dreadful in the second half. That said, shocker from the ref for that first try
		
Click to expand...

Got back to 24 all & blew it from there. Their discipline is terrible


----------



## JamesR (Feb 27, 2021)

Val said:



			You were saying
		
Click to expand...

I was right, the team were wrong 😉


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Would they have had such a dreadful second half if they hadn't been screwed over by the referee in the first half?
		
Click to expand...

The game was in their hands and they dropped it, got back to 24-24 and blew it.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 27, 2021)

I almost found myself rooting for England and I’m not sure why 😳


----------



## hairball_89 (Feb 27, 2021)

Val said:



			The game was in their hands and they dropped it, got back to 24-24 and blew it.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely. To get back to 24-24 after the first half was excellent. To then hand it to Wales on a plate was atrocious. 

Wales 100% deserved winners and almost certainly would have won the game without the refereeing help in the first half, however it doesn't detract on how bad the ref was!


----------



## Piece (Feb 27, 2021)

England's discipline has been an issue for a few years now. Can't win games if you are dishing out 10+ penalties a game. Best team won but that ref had a 'Lee Mason'.


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely. To get back to 24-24 after the first half was excellent. To then hand it to Wales on a plate was atrocious.

Wales 100% deserved winners and almost certainly would have won the game without the refereeing help in the first half, however it doesn't detract on how bad the ref was!
		
Click to expand...

I don't believe Wales deserves to win it but England absolutely deserve to lose.


----------



## bobmac (Feb 28, 2021)

In general....
Two things I've noticed that seems wrong.
1. The backs rarely get the ball and when they do, they're standing still.
2. Tackling should be round the hips then slide down. A man can't run without his legs.
I was told this in 1971 in 1st year rugby


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 28, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Wales 100% deserved winners and almost certainly would have won the game without the refereeing help in the first half
		
Click to expand...

Really?  They were gifted two tries that should never have been allowed, as well as some very marginal penalty calls.  I think there is just as good of an argument that England would have been out of sight and killed the game in that situation.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 28, 2021)

Grizzly said:



			Really?  They were gifted two tries that should never have been allowed, as well as some very marginal penalty calls.  I think there is just as good of an argument that England would have been out of sight and killed the game in that situation.
		
Click to expand...

I think it's likely we'd have been out of sight by half time and controlled things from then on. Hard to know the impact of the frustration at the referee on performance and discipline. He should be held to account for his decision-making and would love to see what he says about the first try as it is clear he gestured time off and checked where the England players were before time on - so he was aware they weren't in position.

But...to get back level and then play so poorly is a really poor show and from then on that part of the game has to question the coach and players.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 28, 2021)

bobmac said:



			In general....
Two things I've noticed that seems wrong.
1. The backs rarely get the ball and when they do, they're standing still.
2. Tackling should be round the hips then slide down. A man can't run without his legs.
I was told this in 1971 in 1st year rugby
		
Click to expand...

But a man can offload the ball when tackled around the legs, thus letting his teammate through the gap.


----------



## bobmac (Feb 28, 2021)

JamesR said:



			But a man can offload the ball when tackled around the legs, thus letting his teammate through the gap.
		
Click to expand...

The tackler has teamates too


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 28, 2021)

In trying to take a positive out of a whole lot of negativity...

Yesterdays result might speed up changes in 'management'... Hopefully...


----------



## JamesR (Feb 28, 2021)

bobmac said:



			The tackler has teamates too
		
Click to expand...

A tackle around the ankles also helps in producing fast rucks, whereas a dominant tackle which prevents the offload, also puts the attack on the back foot.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 28, 2021)

JamesR said:



			A tackle around the ankles also helps in producing fast rucks, whereas a dominant tackle which prevents the offload, also puts the attack on the back foot.
		
Click to expand...

Correct. The All Blacks are absolute masters of offloading in the tackle. Makes it really tough to stop them going forward sometimes. They obviously have to ensure their support play and handling skills are top notch.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 28, 2021)

bobmac said:



			In general....
Two things I've noticed that seems wrong.
1. The backs rarely get the ball and when they do, they're standing still.
2. Tackling should be round the hips then slide down. A man can't run without his legs.
I was told this in 1971 in 1st year rugby
		
Click to expand...

Regarding point 2, I remember being told, and shown, the same in 1981. Since then coaches have taken the better parts of rugby league defending and so, as others have pointed out, stop or slow down the offload. It's an evolution of the game.


----------



## USER1999 (Feb 28, 2021)

It wouldn't change the result, but I wonder why England have not complained about the referee, and the decision that lead up to the first try.


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 28, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			It wouldn't change the result, but I wonder why England have not complained about the referee, and the decision that lead up to the first try.
		
Click to expand...

They're in an impossible position.  They are already paying with a target on their backs - both from other teams who always want to raise their game against what is perceived as the colonial enemy and from referees.  There is no action that World Rugby are going to take, so putting in a complaint just means that there is one more thing for Gauzere to hold against us next time we have to play to him.


----------



## funkycoldmedina (Feb 28, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Correct. The All Blacks are absolute masters of offloading in the tackle. Makes it really tough to stop them going forward sometimes. They obviously have to ensure their support play and handling skills are top notch.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like Rugby League to me😜


----------



## Captainron (Feb 28, 2021)

funkycoldmedina said:



			Sounds like Rugby League to me😜
		
Click to expand...

They don’t have the passing skills. 

“Roogby League! Best game in’t world I tell thee.” Heard it so often in Leeds

Blooming northern monkeys.  It’s not a patch on Rugby Union. 

It’s way better than football though .


----------



## Hobbit (Feb 28, 2021)

Can't remember the last time I had a pop at a rugby ref, although I will have shouted at the TV in the past. I couldn't believe how bad yesterday's ref was. Nigel Owens has said both tries were never tries. Take those out and a couple of dodgy penalties and the score is a lot closer. Add in Farrell's kicking seems off the boil and... who knows what the result would have been.

All that said, England are too static and seem to be missing stand out performances from many players. Wales were better but not 16pts better.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2021)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....nglands-six-nations-loss-to-wales-rugby-union

Good to see that an official is willing to own up to mistakes 

If only football refs did the same


----------



## MegaSteve (Mar 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....nglands-six-nations-loss-to-wales-rugby-union

Good to see that an official is willing to own up to mistakes

If only football refs did the same
		
Click to expand...

I do remember Mike Dean apologising on one occasion...
But, they still leaves him with hundreds of others he needs to 'fess up for...


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 1, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....nglands-six-nations-loss-to-wales-rugby-union

Good to see that an official is willing to own up to mistakes

If only football refs did the same
		
Click to expand...

It's a strange article as can't actually see where he does own up to his mistakes? Is he quoted anywhere?


----------



## Blue in Munich (Mar 1, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			It's a strange article as can't actually see where he does own up to his mistakes? Is he quoted anywhere?
		
Click to expand...

Joel Jutge says he admitted them in a phone call to him, so he's sort of owned up to them.

Gauzere is apparently regarded as one of rugby's top referees.  Rugby is obviously applying Premiership football standards then.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 1, 2021)

The whole France situation has not run its course yet. Clear covid breaches all over the French camp, comments seem to suggest they do not understand the principle of a covid safe bubble, French govt threatening to pull them out of the tournament if this is not investigated and dealt with, French RFU refusing to condemn anyone. Meanwhile Scotland could be massively disadvantaged if the match is played on another date due to club release clauses. Scotland should get a bonus point win but 6 nations want the big grand slam decider against Wales on the last day so unwilling to make that decision. Total mess.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 2, 2021)

I can see the English/French club's refusing to release the Scots players and the 2020 Six Nations scrapped.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Mar 2, 2021)

GB72 said:



			The whole France situation has not run its course yet. Clear covid breaches all over the French camp, comments seem to suggest they do not understand the principle of a covid safe bubble, French govt threatening to pull them out of the tournament if this is not investigated and dealt with, French RFU refusing to condemn anyone. Meanwhile Scotland could be massively disadvantaged if the match is played on another date due to club release clauses. Scotland should get a bonus point win but 6 nations want the big grand slam decider against Wales on the last day so unwilling to make that decision. Total mess.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm, the French completely ignoring the rules; where have we heard that allegation before?


----------



## rudebhoy (Mar 2, 2021)

It will be an absolute joke if France get away with their Covid breaches.

The coach left the bubble on the opening weekend to go watch his son play. He came back, tested positive the next weekend, and no doubt was the reason for it spreading thru the rest of the squad.

Also on the opening weekend, a number of players left the bubble to go and eat waffles!

it is entirely their own fault last weekend's game had to be called off. If as suggested, they reschedule the game for a date when Scotland can't field 10 of the current squad, the SRU should tell them to stick it.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 13, 2021)

Italy going to get their backsides handed to them yet again.

Hoping France can play a good game and hump england 

Want Scotland to beat Ireland tomorrow too.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Italy going to get their backsides handed to them yet again.

Hoping France can play a good game and hump england

Want Scotland to beat Ireland tomorrow too.
		
Click to expand...

I was with you all the way til tomorrow. 

I hope Ireland hump Scotland.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Mar 13, 2021)

What is the TV referee looking at, the ball looked down well before he called it down?


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 13, 2021)

I think he went home about 40 minutes ago, having realised that the result had been decided.


----------



## greenone (Mar 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			What is the TV referee looking at, the ball looked down well before he called it down?
		
Click to expand...

It was stuck between his arms. Fair call imo.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 13, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			I think he went home about 40 minutes ago, having realised that the result had been decided.
		
Click to expand...

Gave up at half time and put the Tigers match on the radio


----------



## Blue in Munich (Mar 13, 2021)

greenone said:



			It was stuck between his arms. Fair call imo.
		
Click to expand...

Back/bottom end golf the ball was down for me.


----------



## IanM (Mar 13, 2021)

Turned off at half time.  Couldn't decide if Wales were good, or Italy are that bad,  bit o' both probably!


----------



## greenone (Mar 13, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Back/bottom end golf the ball was down for me.
		
Click to expand...

I not to bothered when we are 30+ points in front.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 13, 2021)

Can this not just get called off now? 15 minutes to go, and it is just a run out for the boys. They must do training sessions harder than this.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 13, 2021)

France have apparently called up a massive centre. No idea what his name is.
They used to have Bastauread. It never worked for me.
England went through a phase of just picking big guys. I think alot of teams did, but it really didn't work that well. Flair and guile work much better.

France have played some lovely rugby recently. I worry that this is a return to form, and will ultimately cramp their style.


----------



## Leftitshort (Mar 13, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			France have apparently called up a massive centre. No idea what his name is.
They used to have Bastauread. It never worked for me.
England went through a phase of just picking big guys. I think alot of teams did, but it really didn't work that well. Flair and guile work much better.

France have played some lovely rugby recently. I worry that this is a return to form, and will ultimately cramp their style.
		
Click to expand...

Vakatawa. He’s not massive, just massively good. He’s twice the player basteraud ever was. If he’s match fit, he makes France demonstrably better


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 13, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			Vakatawa. He’s not massive, just massively good. He’s twice the player basteraud ever was. If he’s match fit, he makes France demonstrably better
		
Click to expand...

I hope so. As I say, I haven't seen him.

Looking forwards to the game, as this one hasn't met my admittedly low expectations.


----------



## Leftitshort (Mar 13, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			I hope so. As I say, I haven't seen him.

Looking forwards to the game, as this one hasn't met my admittedly low expectations.
		
Click to expand...

It’s rubbish without crowds, shouldn’t even count. Especially if Wales win a grand slam 🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Captainron (Mar 13, 2021)

Allez Les Bleus


----------



## greenone (Mar 13, 2021)

That didn't take long. 😆


----------



## Captainron (Mar 13, 2021)

France need to think a bit better. England are looking good


----------



## GB72 (Mar 13, 2021)

Certainly an entertaining start


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 13, 2021)

This is being played at some pace.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 13, 2021)

Wow what a game,
Pity England did not show this form against the Scots, we could have had a much closer game, 
Good to see them playing proper rugby though.
That old fashioned  bish bash bosh stuff that Jones ordered is so boring.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 13, 2021)

You can’t trust the French to do anything!!


----------



## arnieboy (Mar 13, 2021)

A great finish by England


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 13, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Wow what a game,
Pity England did not show this form against the Scots, we could have had a much closer game, ;.
		
Click to expand...

I think if that England side had turned up in week one, you may have shipped 50 points. 

And yet, despite losing, for me the story was how far France have come. They were a blade of grass away from the win.


----------



## bobmac (Mar 14, 2021)

Can someone please explain to me how Wales have played 4 games, won them all and got 19 points?


----------



## MegaSteve (Mar 14, 2021)

bobmac said:



			Can someone please explain to me how Wales have played 4 games, won them all and got 19 points?  

Click to expand...


Bonus points awarded to how many tries are scored...


----------



## bobmac (Mar 14, 2021)

MegaSteve said:



			Bonus points awarded to how many tries are scored...
		
Click to expand...

Thanks


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 14, 2021)

There is some oddly bad play in the Scotland v Ireland game. Some weird passing choices.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2021)

Bonkers try for Scotland.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 15, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Bonkers try for Scotland.
		
Click to expand...

Hoggie looked a bit shy when asked about it in the interview.
I thought it looked like it hit his chest and chin at the same time.
Too many fouls given away by Scotland, they would have really stolen a point at the end if that kick had not gone over.
Brutal game with both teams not at their best.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 15, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hoggie looked a bit shy when asked about it in the interview.
I thought it looked like it hit his chest and chin at the same time.
Too many fouls given away by Scotland, they would have really stolen a point at the end if that kick had not gone over.
Brutal game with both teams not at their best.
		
Click to expand...

But it was fun despite it all and despite the end result - like an old-fashioned Barbarians game from back in the day.


----------



## rudebhoy (Mar 15, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hoggie looked a bit shy when asked about it in the interview.
I thought it looked like it hit his chest and chin at the same time.
Too many fouls given away by Scotland, they would have really stolen a point at the end if that kick had not gone over.
Brutal game with both teams not at their best.
		
Click to expand...


If you can't win your own line out, you're not going to win the game


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 15, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			If you can't win your own line out, you're not going to win the game
		
Click to expand...

Our throw ins were rubbish again.
I thought that problem had been sorted.


----------



## MegaSteve (Mar 15, 2021)

When I saw The Exiles completing a narrow win over the Warriors... 
I thought there's a good omen...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 15, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Our throw ins were rubbish again.
I thought that problem had been sorted.
		
Click to expand...

we just have to take this on the chin - as Hogg kinda did...neat footballing skills from him and Russell.  Pity latter had to go off...hurt us as I think he was the can-opener.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 15, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			we just have to take this on the chin - as Hogg kinda did...neat footballing skills from him and Russell.  Pity latter had to go off...hurt us as I think he was the can-opener.
		
Click to expand...

Got me wondering if you could deliberately head the ball forwards.
The rules have probably changed after my last game in 1963.

RugbyRefs.com - Is it legal to head the ball in Rugby Union? 

Well that is as clear as mud.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 16, 2021)

Nice wee tune from Scots Trad/Folk royalty.
Even if you don't like it send off a wee donation for Doddie.

‎Doddie's Dream (feat. Nicola Benedetti, Sharon Shannon, Phil Cunningham, Aly Bain, Skerryvore, Julie Fowlis, Jerry Douglas, Duncan Chisholm, Gary Innes & Breabach) - Single by Blazin' Fiddles & The Scottish Folk Orchestra on Apple Music


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 18, 2021)

Hoggy to start as stand off vs the Italians.
Well that has my interest.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 18, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Hoggy to start as stand off vs the Italians.
Well that has my interest.

Click to expand...

That is certainly given me a reason to watch the Italy match (normally do not bother too much as the results are generally obvious).


----------



## JamesR (Mar 18, 2021)

GB72 said:



			That is certainly given me a reason to watch the Italy match (normally do not bother too much as the results are generally obvious).
		
Click to expand...

I’d be worried that starting at F/H, being that bit closer to the opposition defence from set piece, may stifle his ability to attack, ball in hand.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 20, 2021)

Quiet tonight


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 20, 2021)

Ireland going well.


----------



## Voyager EMH (Mar 20, 2021)

Looks like a 3rd place/5th place play-off. Final later tonight maybe.


----------



## williamalex1 (Mar 20, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Quiet tonight 

Click to expand...

Oh you


----------



## Captainron (Mar 20, 2021)

THAT WAS NEVER EVER EVER A RED


----------



## Captainron (Mar 20, 2021)

The French referees are blooming useless


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 20, 2021)

Captainron said:



			The French referees are blooming useless
		
Click to expand...

I love them.
What a change to have 6 nation ref's that do not ignore some of laws of the game.
The big game coming on soon. Come on Wales, make it a Celtic weekend.


I hope Scotland refuse to play France if  English clubs do not release their players.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 20, 2021)

Also. England need to lose that Umbro kit. Chavvy football brand that


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 20, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I love them.
What a change to have 6 nation ref's that do not ignore some of laws of the game.
The big game coming on soon. Come on Wales, make it a Celtic weekend.


I hope Scotland refuse to play France if  English clubs do not release their players.
		
Click to expand...

Why would you release players for a tournament that is done and dusted? Just cancel the game.


----------



## ger147 (Mar 20, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Why would you release players for a tournament that is done and dusted? Just cancel the game.
		
Click to expand...

Scotland should be awarded a walkover, wasn't their fault France couldn't play.


----------



## USER1999 (Mar 20, 2021)

ger147 said:



			Scotland should be awarded a walkover, wasn't their fault France couldn't play.
		
Click to expand...

For sure.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 20, 2021)

That wasn’t a red. Yellow max!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 20, 2021)

What a great game of Rugby - superb to watch


----------



## IanG (Mar 20, 2021)

What a game for the neutral


----------



## williamalex1 (Mar 20, 2021)

IanG said:



			What a game for the neutral 

Click to expand...

Specsavers for you Ian


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 20, 2021)

Jones has reached the end of the road with England, woeful. What a collapse from Wales too, gutted for them.


----------



## greenone (Mar 20, 2021)

Captainron said:



			THAT WAS NEVER EVER EVER A RED
		
Click to expand...

Eh? Fingers in the eye socket isn't a red? 

Can't believe the France yellow didn't result in a penalty try. Less than 2 yds from the try line moving forward at a rate of knots...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 20, 2021)




----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 20, 2021)

greenone said:



			Eh? Fingers in the eye socket isn't a red?

Can't believe the France yellow didn't result in a penalty try. Less than 2 yds from the try line moving forward at a rate of knots...
		
Click to expand...

I believe you replied to his post about Bundee Aki getting a red card


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 20, 2021)

murphthemog said:



			Why would you release players for a tournament that is done and dusted? Just cancel the game.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like all Scottish players have been released by their clubs for the France game.  Well they rather had to after that bonkers match this evening. Bonkers but great.


----------



## MegaSteve (Mar 21, 2021)

Captainron said:



			THAT WAS NEVER EVER EVER A RED
		
Click to expand...


Well, it is this season...
Like it or not that's the way rules are being interpreted/applied currently...


----------



## AliMc (Mar 21, 2021)

Never really played or got into rugby much, happy to watch a few games without understanding all the rules but it seems to me that the referee's are having as much influence on the results as the players, happy to be shot down 😏


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 21, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Never really played or got into rugby much, happy to watch a few games without understanding all the rules but it seems to me that the referee's are having as much influence on the results as the players, happy to be shot down 😏
		
Click to expand...

Players push the boundaries, play on and often go over the edge. Do refs influence or are they simply penalizing players who go over the boundary line?

I think the speed of play now is such that tipping over occurs more often and the refs are good enough to spot it. Fault is with the players, imo.


----------



## 3offTheTee (Mar 21, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Never really played or got into rugby much, happy to watch a few games without understanding all the rules but it seems to me that the referee's are having as much influence on the results as the players, happy to be shot down 😏
		
Click to expand...

This is my problem. Could never grasp the rules. Had one game at school many, many years ago and everybody said I would be in the 1st 15 as I was in cricket and football 1st 11. Played fullback and came off without my knees touching the ground. Stuck  to Football and cricket and still no wiser on the rules!


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 21, 2021)

Watched the Wales v France game on catch up this morning.
That must beat the time record of the longest ever game of rugby.
So many contentious decisions and interventions.
At one point I counted 11 yellow vest types on the pitch.
There was a great game in the middle of that though.
Looking forward to Scotland finishing second. on Friday.


----------



## Voyager EMH (Mar 21, 2021)

Two grandparents from Aberdeen and two from Ferndale. The idea of Scotland beating France to do Wales a favour appeals to me in a very big way.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 21, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			Two grandparents from Aberdeen and two from Ferndale. The idea of Scotland beating France to do Wales a favour appeals to me in a very big way.
		
Click to expand...

Yes my Welsh side of the family will be delighted, but aren't Wales uncatchable unless Scotland lose by about 76-0.

Just checked.......21 point gap and a bonus try point will be enough.
Oooh dear I'm nervous now


----------



## GB72 (Mar 21, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes my Welsh side of the family will be delighted, but aren't Wales uncatchable unless Scotland lose by about 76-0.

Just checked.......21 point gap and a bonus try point will be enough.
Oooh dear I'm nervous now

Click to expand...

Should at least be an entertaining match as France have to head out all guns blazing


----------



## IanM (Mar 21, 2021)

Bbc Wales has had massive alterations to schedule and content.   Oh dear! Never mind.

Week of national mourning ahead


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 22, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Watched the Wales v France game on catch up this morning.
That must beat the time record of the longest ever game of rugby.
So many contentious decisions and interventions.
At one point I counted 11 yellow vest types on the pitch.
There was a great game in the middle of that though.
Looking forward to Scotland finishing second. on Friday.
		
Click to expand...

You forget the 100minute France v Wales match a few years ago...


----------



## JamesR (Mar 22, 2021)

MY take on this years 6 Nations:

 - Italy: should be dropped to a lower level competition, with the likes of Georgia, Japan, Canada, etc
 - Scotland: improving, but only really managed one result, against a very poor England (and only just managed that). Need to turn performances into results.
 - Ireland: too reliant on the old heads (Sexton, Murray, etc), but in Beirne have found a new star, and Furlongh is the best prop I've seen in a long time.
 - France: brilliant except for the England game. The new management are showing signs of turning them into a team capable of winning anything, with added stamina.
 - Wales: you could say they got lucky with some reffing decisions, but they kept putting themselves in positions to win - they're doing what Scotland can't, winning close calls.
 - England: as bad as I've ever seen them. Too reliant on how well Ben Youngs plays, and he never starts tournaments well. Several players should have played their last matches for England. You can blame Farrell & Ford as much as you like, but Youngs was getting ball on a plate and taking an age to get it to his playmakers, who are then immediately under pressure.

Wales or France deserve the title, which ever ends up with it.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 22, 2021)

JamesR said:



			- England: as bad as I've ever seen them. Too reliant on how well Ben Youngs plays, and he never starts tournaments well. Several players should have played their last matches for England. You can blame Farrell & Ford as much as you like, but Youngs was getting ball on a plate and taking an age to get it to his playmakers, who are then immediately under pressure.
		
Click to expand...

I would say drop Farrell as captain, and give that to the one player who is first on each team sheet..Itoje. Farrell has become too much of a loose cannon these days with his dangerous tackles and speaking to the ref.
As much as I like  Jones, I think it’s time to only play players in their normal and best positions and stop moving them about to accommodate them in the line up Just because they’re are your friends.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 22, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I would say drop Farrell as captain, and give that to the one player who is first on each team sheet..Itoje. Farrell has become too much of a loose cannon these days with his dangerous tackles and speaking to the ref.
As much as I like  Jones, I think it’s time to only play players in their normal and best positions and stop moving them about to accommodate them in the line up Just because they’re are your friends.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t give it to whoever decided to take the scrum in front of our own posts, when we got a free kick in the 2nd half. It should have gone deep in the Irish half (off Daley’s howitzer boot), even if we didn’t get the line out.


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 22, 2021)

JamesR said:



			- England: as bad as I've ever seen them. Too reliant on how well Ben Youngs plays, and he never starts tournaments well. Several players should have played their last matches for England. You can blame Farrell & Ford as much as you like, but Youngs was getting ball on a plate and taking an age to get it to his playmakers, who are then immediately under pressure.
		
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't been watching for that long then - there were some truly awful performances in the fallow years after 2003.  Though the difference then was that for the most part they were reflective of what the group of players available were capable of producing, whereas this England generation ought to be...I don't want to say out of sight, because France have a Golden Generation of their own and Wales, Ireland and Scotland all have top talent available but...

...consider the players who are not in the matchday 23s at the moment and you have a squad that ought to go no worse than 50% against the other sides in the competition - off the top of my head Marler, Barbeary, Williams, Lawes, Ribbans, Dombrandt, Ewers, Sam Simmonds, Spencer, Smith, Radwan, O'Connor, Tuilagi, Odogwu, De Glanville then Dunne, Moon, the South African import at Quins, Launchbury, Ben Curry, Joe Simmonds, JVP, Cocanasiga

And I've already thought of three names I have missed off that list.

Interested to hear who you think fall into that category of played their last games?  For me, apart from Mark Wilson, who is great but unlikely to make it to the next WC, I don't think there are any who are not worth consideration.  Its just that we need to widen the selection pool so its not just the same names form and structure be damned...


----------



## JamesR (Mar 22, 2021)

Grizzly said:



			You obviously haven't been watching for that long then - there were some truly awful performances in the fallow years after 2003.  Though the difference then was that for the most part they were reflective of what the group of players available were capable of producing, whereas this England generation ought to be...I don't want to say out of sight, because France have a Golden Generation of their own and Wales, Ireland and Scotland all have top talent available but...

...consider the players who are not in the matchday 23s at the moment and you have a squad that ought to go no worse than 50% against the other sides in the competition - off the top of my head Marler, Barbeary, Williams, Lawes, Ribbans, Dombrandt, Ewers, Sam Simmonds, Spencer, Smith, Radwan, O'Connor, Tuilagi, Odogwu, De Glanville then Dunne, Moon, the South African import at Quins, Launchbury, Ben Curry, Joe Simmonds, JVP, Cocanasiga

And I've already thought of three names I have missed off that list.

Interested to hear who you think fall into that category of played their last games?  For me, apart from Mark Wilson, who is great but unlikely to make it to the next WC, I don't think there are any who are not worth consideration.  Its just that we need to widen the selection pool so its not just the same names form and structure be damned...
		
Click to expand...

I’ve seen plenty of England rugby, going back to the 5 nations days, and yes they’ve played poorly in the recent past, but this years matches have lacked performance and determination. The team that thrashed NZ playing that badly is awful. Something is wrong. If it’s players not having match practice due Saracens not playing, then pick match prepared players from the premiership.

First names in the chopping block for me would be Billy V, Youngs, Ford and Daley.
I’d like to see Simmonds, Randall, Simmons and Steward get a chance in their place.
I’d also like more chances for players to join the side, not just the squad, and get game time. Otherwise they just get thrown in at the deep end without the required time to find their feet.


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 22, 2021)

of games 



JamesR said:



			First names in the chopping block for me would be Billy V, Youngs, Ford and Daley.
I’d like to see Simmonds, Randall, Simmons and Steward get a chance in their place.
I’d also like more chances for players to join the side, not just the squad, and get game time. Otherwise they just get thrown in at the deep end without the required time to find their feet.
		
Click to expand...

Neither agreeing or disagreeing but.... Billy has been poor, but should probably be judged when he has had three months of games to get himself properly, fully fit.  Youngs is in more than half the Lions sides I see touted.  Ford has kicked poorly, but is a passing fly half so that has to be on the selector.  And Daly...would it not have been wonderful to see him play 13 on Saturday?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 22, 2021)

Hasnt Billy V been playing the more reserved game they asked him to play? You can't complain about the player doing what's asked of him. Thats just like the footy teams with Lampard and Gerrard, with everyone complaining Gerrard wasn't playing like he did for club when being played on the opposite side of the pitch and asked to do a different role.

The biggest problem is the virus has screwed everything up, some players have adapted betters others haven't. I still think Farrell should lose the captaincy though, and as kuch as Ben Youngs hasn't been as good as he can be I don't think Dan Robson is any better.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 22, 2021)

Grizzly said:



			of games

Neither agreeing or disagreeing but.... Billy has been poor, but should probably be judged when he has had three months of games to get himself properly, fully fit.  Youngs is in more than half the Lions sides I see touted.  Ford has kicked poorly, but is a passing fly half so that has to be on the selector.  And Daly...would it not have been wonderful to see him play 13 on Saturday?
		
Click to expand...

I’d suggest Youngs may be in some Lions sides as s/h is probably our weakest position.
Agreed re Billy
I personally think that Daly’s best position is left wing, and we have too many good wings ahead of him, when everyone is fit. He certainly isn’t a fullback.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 22, 2021)

Good call on steward, having such a great season for us. Our young scrum half is looking a real prospect as well so Youngs will have some competition on his return.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Good call on steward, having such a great season for us. Our young scrum half is looking a real prospect as well so Youngs will have some competition on his return.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, with Van Poorfleet and Wigglesworth Youngs would be my 3rd choice.

Steward looks like a real star in the making...a big bugger too


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 22, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I’d suggest Youngs may be in some Lions sides as s/h is probably our weakest position.
Agreed re Billy
I personally think that Daly’s best position is left wing, and we have too many good wings ahead of him, when everyone is fit. He certainly isn’t a fullback.
		
Click to expand...

It certainly was once Rhys Webb got crocked!

Daly, I agree (and I say this having played there a lot) is not a fullback - he could play 13 or either wing much more successfully. What I found odd was when he was converted to replace Brown, the other wings in the squad - Watson, Norwell and Ashton - were all better full backs than he was so it seemed a big leap just for that boot.

Who plays there come the next WC is an interesting one. Malins is a top player, and he and Furbank both bring the ability to stand in at 10. Steward will only improve, and I could see one of the young fly halves try to convert as well.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 22, 2021)

Very impressed with the young scrum half and stand off pairing who have been playing for Glasgow the last month or so.
They switched Hastings to full back last week to accommodate the stand off [Thompson?] on Friday.
Two to watch.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 23, 2021)

Lot of tin hat conspiracy theories going around about the release of Scotland players for Friday. Personal feeling, premier League clubs under no obligation to release outside ore agreed international windows, Scotland should have been given the win in the first place and now the French should get the bill for full release of all players. My suspicion, the 6 Nations committee suspected France would bail on the whole tournament if they were awarded a defeat as they threatened to do if any other team had a covid case (the irony) and so it was swept under the rug and now Scotland are disadvantaged and France have known for a week the exact scoreline they need to win the championship and prepare accordingly.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 23, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Very impressed with the young scrum half and stand off pairing who have been playing for Glasgow the last month or so.
They switched Hastings to full back last week to accommodate the stand off [Thompson?] on Friday.
Two to watch.
		
Click to expand...

Though he looked tidy and suitably aggressive I'm not sure that Steele is right for Scotland at scrum half.  I have little idea of the technicalities of how the scrum half should deliver a pass but I just got the impression that many of Steel's passes were just a bit high and exposed the recipient - though I can certainly appreciate that putting passes to a height that enables the receiver to catch the ball at upper-chest height in front of him rather than lower down could be what's required.  Just something I noticed that was different to how I've noticed Ali Price passing it.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 23, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Though he looked tidy and suitably aggressive I'm not sure that Steele is right for Scotland at scrum half.  I have little idea of the technicalities of how the scrum half should deliver a pass but I just got the impression that many of Steel's passes were just a bit high and exposed the recipient - though I can certainly appreciate that putting passes to a height that enables the receiver to catch the ball at upper-chest height in front of him rather than lower down could be what's required.  Just something I noticed that was different to how I've noticed Ali Price passing it.
		
Click to expand...

Steele plays for Harlequins I believe.
I was talking about the two uncapped young Glasgow Warriors players.
Steele did OK against Italy, not our strongest position at the mo.
Thought Cherry had a good game, at least he can throw a ball straight.


----------



## Val (Mar 24, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



*I would say drop Farrell *as captain*,* and give that to the one player who is first on each team sheet..Itoje. Farrell has become too much of a loose cannon these days with his dangerous tackles and speaking to the ref.
As much as I like  Jones, I think it’s time to only play players in their normal and best positions and stop moving them about to accommodate them in the line up Just because they’re are your friends.
		
Click to expand...

Your first 5 words in bold were enough.


----------



## Val (Mar 24, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Very impressed with the young scrum half and stand off pairing who have been playing for Glasgow the last month or so.
They switched Hastings to full back last week to accommodate the stand off [Thompson?] on Friday.
Two to watch.
		
Click to expand...

Jamie Dobie and Ross Thompson are Scotlands future half back pairing, I believe Jamie Dobie will be a Scotland captain in the future.


----------



## Val (Mar 24, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Though he looked tidy and suitably aggressive I'm not sure that Steele is right for Scotland at scrum half.  I have little idea of the technicalities of how the scrum half should deliver a pass but I just got the impression that many of Steel's passes were just a bit high and exposed the recipient - though I can certainly appreciate that putting passes to a height that enables the receiver to catch the ball at upper-chest height in front of him rather than lower down could be what's required.  Just something I noticed that was different to how I've noticed Ali Price passing it.
		
Click to expand...

Steele is not in the class of Price who has amongst the most accurate and speed of passes in world rugby. Hugely under rated and a shame he's not had a good 6N as for me he's a Lions bolter


----------



## Val (Mar 24, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Lot of tin hat conspiracy theories going around about the release of Scotland players for Friday. Personal feeling, premier League clubs under no obligation to release outside ore agreed international windows, Scotland should have been given the win in the first place and now the French should get the bill for full release of all players. My suspicion, the 6 Nations committee suspected France would bail on the whole tournament if they were awarded a defeat as they threatened to do if any other team had a covid case (the irony) and so it was swept under the rug and now Scotland are disadvantaged and France have known for a week the exact scoreline they need to win the championship and prepare accordingly.
		
Click to expand...

Its a shambles quite frankly, it also disadvantages all clubs who have Scotland players in their ranks for the following weeks European ties too.

Im not keen on forfeiting matches and although the 6N committee would be keen to complete quickly they could easily have waited till the season was about done then played it late May/early June


----------



## GB72 (Mar 24, 2021)

Val said:



			Its a shambles quite frankly, it also disadvantages all clubs who have Scotland players in their ranks for the following weeks European ties too.

Im not keen on forfeiting matches and although the 6N committee would be keen to complete quickly they could easily have waited till the season was about done then played it late May/early June
		
Click to expand...

It laughable, numerous breaches of covid protocols, little understanding of what a bubble actually means and yet the French Rugby Union find no fault, the 6 Nations do nothing and Scotland are short of a full squad and have had to pay to release those players they do have. Plus, how big an advantage do you need in knowing the exact scoreline you need and having a week to prepare. That said, Scotland are masters at raining on people's parade and I hope that they bring one of those special performances out of the bag on Friday.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 24, 2021)

GB72 said:



			It laughable, numerous breaches of covid protocols, little understanding of what a bubble actually means and yet the French Rugby Union find no fault, the 6 Nations do nothing and Scotland are short of a full squad and have had to pay to release those players they do have. Plus, how big an advantage do you need in knowing the exact scoreline you need and having a week to prepare. That said, Scotland are masters at raining on people's parade and I hope that they bring one of those special performances out of the bag on Friday.
		
Click to expand...

Tony Stanger leaps high and lands on Will Carling's expectations 

btw - is TS still involved in the game ?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 24, 2021)

Val said:



			Jamie Dobie and Ross Thompson are Scotlands future half back pairing, I believe Jamie Dobie will be a Scotland captain in the future.
		
Click to expand...

Rufus McLean looks pretty classy as well.
If Glasgow can hang on to those three they have some team in the making.


----------



## Voyager EMH (Mar 26, 2021)

If only the pubs were open and if Scotland were to beat France tonight, any scot in a welsh pub would get free beer for the last hour of opening time!


----------



## GB72 (Mar 26, 2021)

Cracking effort from Scotland. Well deserved


----------



## ger147 (Mar 26, 2021)

Justice.


----------



## fundy (Mar 26, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			If only the pubs were open and if Scotland were to beat France tonight, any scot in a welsh pub would get free beer for the last hour of opening time!
		
Click to expand...


Free for the Saffers all night


----------



## GB72 (Mar 26, 2021)

The right result. Scotland put in another performance of the level they put in against England, unfortunately for France, they also put in a similar performance to the one they put in against England


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 26, 2021)

What was that French guy thinking 4 mins into red time?!?!? Still I'm happy he tried to play the ball out. Brilliant performance from Scotland


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 26, 2021)

Well that was a stonking match 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


----------



## Val (Mar 27, 2021)

Great game, great 6 nations for out bits but those 2 home defeats hurt even more tonight, especially that Wales one


----------



## Beezerk (Mar 27, 2021)

drive4show said:



			What was that French guy thinking 4 mins into red time?!?!?
		
Click to expand...

I don't understand what happened, France had the ball 3 or 4 times in the last few minutes and never once tried to close out the game. It was almost like they threw the game, utter madness.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2021)

drive4show said:



			What was that French guy thinking 4 mins into red time?!?!? Still I'm happy he tried to play the ball out. Brilliant performance from Scotland 

Click to expand...

When I saw the look on his face after he gave away the penalty I just new Scotland would win. 

Great championship, not much between the top four teams.


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 27, 2021)

drive4show said:



			What was that French guy thinking 4 mins into red time?!?!? Still I'm happy he tried to play the ball out. Brilliant performance from Scotland 

Click to expand...

Crazy. He seemed to be trying to run into touch?! I thought I must have got the time wrong as none of the commentators or pundits seemed to focus on it. It was their full back and by his face at the end he knew he'd cost them the win.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 27, 2021)

AmandaJR said:



			Crazy. He seemed to be trying to run into touch?! I thought I must have got the time wrong as none of the commentators or pundits seemed to focus on it. It was their full back and by his face at the end he knew he'd cost them the win.
		
Click to expand...

If I can hunt among the weeds and find some sort of rationale - he knew that the French win they had wasn’t enough so he thought a final flourish of French flair scoring a dazzling try from their own line would see the critics drooling.  That’s the best i can come up with. Ha ha 🤪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 27, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If I can hunt among the weeds and find some sort of rationale - he knew that the French win they had wasn’t enough so he thought a final flourish of French flair scoring a dazzling try from their own line would see the critics drooling.  That’s the best i can come up with. Ha ha 🤪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
		
Click to expand...

You may well be pretty close to the truth!


----------



## Imurg (Mar 27, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If I can hunt among the weeds and find some sort of rationale - he knew that the French win they had wasn’t enough so he thought a final flourish of French flair scoring a dazzling try from their own line would see the critics drooling.  That’s the best i can come up with. Ha ha 🤪🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
		
Click to expand...

Yeah but Serge Blanco retired years ago...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 27, 2021)

Jeez - some Scots are real miserablists - France outplayed us in the rugby and we didn’t deserve to win; and their footballing cousins were poor at home against a 2nd rate Austria.  You know what.  Even if partly true I don’t care...🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍


----------



## Voyager EMH (Mar 27, 2021)

drive4show said:



			What was that French guy thinking 4 mins into red time?!?!? Still I'm happy he tried to play the ball out. Brilliant performance from Scotland 

Click to expand...

Given the perceived impossibility of scoring 18 points after the 80 minutes, I think he may have distracted himself with pondering which “wazzo” would best describe a hole-in-one on a par five or that 147 is not the maximum break. Anyway, dropped his team dans la crème anglaise or maybe even merde.
Scotland gave Wales a good lesson on how to play a last five minutes (plus five more) against France. Wales had their chance at a Grand Slam and failed. France had their chance at a Six Nations win and failed. A lead and a man-advantage at the start of second half and the knowledge of exactly what was required. The French were completely and utterly thwarted by an excellent Scottish performance.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 27, 2021)

This for Scottish miserablists ... the final word on the 6 Nations 😀


----------



## 4LEX (Mar 27, 2021)

Huge props to Scotland and great to see Wales get the trophy they deserve! A real shame theres been no crowds at these games as some of the finishings have been unbelievable


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 29, 2021)

What a cracking weekend for watching rugby.
Scotland game on Friday.
Glasgow v Benaton on Sat, and Edinburgh v Dragons yesterday.
Fantastic fight back from a 'weak' Edinburgh team.


----------



## JamesR (Apr 16, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Good call on steward, having such a great season for us. Our young scrum half is looking a real prospect as well so Youngs will have some competition on his return.
		
Click to expand...

Just watching Saints v Exiles

Mitchell looks very good at scrum half, would like to see him get a chance at a few minutes for England.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2021)

Lions Tour Announcement Time

Really enjoy watching the Tour but think this is going to feel a lot different 

Tour Captain no surprise is Alun Wyn Jones


----------



## GB72 (May 6, 2021)

In all honesty, I have surprisingly little interest in this Tour at the moment. No away fans, player bubbles, it is just not a proper Lions tour to me and it will be very hard to be able to train a squad up to the right standard under covid restrictions. 



Personal feeling is that it is an unnecessary risk at the moment and should have been delayed until it could be done properly.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2021)

Backs: Josh Adams, Bundee Aki, Dan Biggar, Elliot Daly, Gareth Davies, Owen Farrell, Chris Harris, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart Hogg, Conor Murray, Ali Price, Louis Rees-Zammit, Finn Russell, Duhan van der Merwe, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Curry, Zander Fagerson, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes, Ken Owens, Andrew Porter, Sam Simmonds, Rory Sutherland, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Hamish Watson.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2021)

So players missing out that surprised me

Sam Underhill
Garry Ringrose
Jonny May 
Kyle Sincklar 
James Ryan


----------



## GB72 (May 6, 2021)

Looking at that squad I am thinking that Ben Youngs is not the only one who declined the chance to be considered and who can blame them. Irrespective of anything else, they are signing up for the best part of 3 months in a covid bubble.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (May 6, 2021)

Eight Scots.........good to see.
Chris Harris perhaps a surprise, but a good one.
I thought Redpath might have got that spot.
Price a bit of a surprise for me, teaming up with Finn again probably in his favour.


----------



## Captainron (Jul 1, 2021)

Seen that Gatland has picked a super strong side to start the tour down in South Africa against the Gauteng Lions. 

Hope South Africa can get some decent match practice before the test matches. I am not that confident about this series because we have played zero rugby since that World Cup win


----------



## Captainron (Jul 2, 2021)

The Springboks were very very rusty against Georgia this evening. Can’t play like that when it counts


----------



## fundy (Jul 5, 2021)

Well theyre not going to be doing any training to improve things, Lood de Jager has tested positive and the whole squad are now isolating!


----------



## GB72 (Jul 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well theyre not going to be doing any training to improve things, Lood de Jager has tested positive and the whole squad are now isolating!
		
Click to expand...

Not sure if I have mentioned how much of a mistake this tour is before. Only a matter of time before there is a case in the Lions squad and then we have to start cancelling matches. No way either team can go into the tests fully prepared. 

Will have to see on Friday if the promises that SA had a big enough squad to honour all fixtures even if there were covid cases is correct.


----------



## fundy (Jul 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Not sure if I have mentioned how much of a mistake this tour is before. Only a matter of time before there is a case in the Lions squad and then we have to start cancelling matches. No way either team can go into the tests fully prepared. 

Will have to see on Friday if the promises that SA had a big enough squad to honour all fixtures even if there were covid cases is correct.
		
Click to expand...


you may have done once or twice Greg  hard to disagree with it!!!


----------



## GB72 (Jul 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			you may have done once or twice Greg  hard to disagree with it!!!
		
Click to expand...

Did not even watch the match at the weekend. Whole thing just seems like nothing more than a cash grab now. All of the elements that made a Lions tour special were removed as soon as you took the fans out of the equation.


----------



## fundy (Jul 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Did not even watch the match at the weekend. Whole thing just seems like nothing more than a cash grab now. All of the elements that made a Lions tour special were removed as soon as you took the fans out of the equation.
		
Click to expand...


Not seen any of it either, long way down my sporting priorities currently! If youd have said that to me a few years ago..........

(albeit partly a hangover form the Sarries situation on my behalf)


----------



## GB72 (Jul 5, 2021)

fundy said:



			Not seen any of it either, long way down my sporting priorities currently! If youd have said that to me a few years ago..........

(albeit partly a hangover form the Sarries situation on my behalf)
		
Click to expand...

On the back of improved Tigers performances I would normally be jumping at the chance to watch the Lions matches. Watched the under 20s 6 Nations on Youtube and the Ireland and England matches on channel 4 but had no hype for the Lions at all.


----------



## GB72 (Jul 5, 2021)

And on that note, how fun were japan to watch at the weekend.


----------



## GB72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Strong rumours going around that both the SA match against Georgia and the Lions match at the weekend will be cancelled.


----------



## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Strong rumours going around that both the SA match against Georgia and the Lions match at the weekend will be cancelled.
		
Click to expand...


saw one rumour that the Lions would play Georgia with both SA and Blue Bulls having Covid problems!!! Thats how farcical its getting


----------



## GB72 (Jul 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			saw one rumour that the Lions would play Georgia!!! Thats how farcical its getting
		
Click to expand...

Think it was just a suggestion put to the Lions management but if it gets them game time they would be happy to accept. Trouble is that both of the respective unions need the TV money from this too much and I suspect it will have already been budgeted for. Sadly the tests will go ahead even if it is with third string teams with little or no preparation time.


----------



## GB72 (Jul 6, 2021)

Ridiculous thing is, if they had listened to other proposals and played the matches in the UK or in Australia, we could be having a spectacle of rugby with full crowds.


----------



## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Think it was just a suggestion put to the Lions management but if it gets them game time they would be happy to accept. Trouble is that both of the respective unions need the TV money from this too much and I suspect it will have already been budgeted for. Sadly the tests will go ahead even if it is with third string teams with little or no preparation time.
		
Click to expand...


no different to Englands 3rd XI playing Pakistan in the cricket either

did somebody say new normal


----------



## GB72 (Jul 6, 2021)

fundy said:



			no different to Englands 3rd XI playing Pakistan in the cricket either

did somebody say new normal 

Click to expand...

The Lions is meant to be something special though, for many (fans and players) a once in a lifetime experience and this whole thing has both, ironically, cheapened the whole thing whilst also making it look like an expensive cash grab. If this keeps on it will just be more ammunition for those who want to see the end of the Lions to clear more space in the playing calender.


----------



## fundy (Jul 6, 2021)

GB72 said:



			The Lions is meant to be something special though, for many (fans and players) a once in a lifetime experience and this whole thing has both, ironically, cheapened the whole thing whilst also making it look like an expensive cash grab. If this keeps on it will just be more ammunition for those who want to see the end of the Lions to clear more space in the playing calender.
		
Click to expand...


I agree but current situation is clearly going to dictate sadly. Lets hope we can get back to that premise for Australia 2025!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2021)

France have just thrown away the win against the Aussies 

Clock gone red - their line out , they win it and then throw the ball to space where the Aussies pick it up and win the penalty right in front 😂😂

Madness from the French


----------



## fundy (Jul 7, 2021)

SA v Georgia been cancelled


----------



## GB72 (Jul 7, 2021)

And it gets worse, cases in the Lions squad now. Very clear that covid safe bubbles just cannot be maintained.


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 7, 2021)

Probably regretting not play the matches in the UK now. Whatever happens both sides will be under cooked


----------



## GB72 (Jul 7, 2021)

spongebob59 said:



			Probably regretting not play the matches in the UK now. Whatever happens both sides will be under cooked
		
Click to expand...

Will be lucky if it is just that and I can see 2 teams missing large numbers of key players but, then again, even if it the Lions 3rd team v SA 4ths it will fulfil the contract with the TV companies and sponsors and so everyone will get paid and, after all, that is all that is important, right?


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 7, 2021)

It does but still would have been better to play a home series in front of crowds as a one off rather than a depleted away tour in an empty stadium.


----------



## GB72 (Jul 7, 2021)

spongebob59 said:



			It does but still would have been better to play a home series in front of crowds as a one off rather than a depleted away tour in an empty stadium.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree or the offer to play in Australia was also on the table. Guessing the SA authorities were hoping for at least home supporters and so more money but they will be lucky of this tour does not bascially bankrupt them


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 7, 2021)

BREAKING

The British & Irish Lions can confirm that a member of its management team has tested positive for COVID-19.

Full statement below.

#LionsRugby #CastleLionsSeries #LionsSA2021


----------



## Captainron (Jul 7, 2021)

I cannot see the tour continuing. I hope that they postpone to 2022 now and give it a chance to happen for the fans. 

The Springbok game on Friday is also cancelled due to COVID. 

Reality of life in South Africa is that vaccination of the general population will not done before the end of the year at the very earliest.


----------



## Captainron (Jul 14, 2021)

Proper game that. 

Fitness and set piece seem to be the major issues for the Springboks (and the discipline ) but good to blood a few players before the test series. 9 days of recovery for the team now. 

Some decent Lions performances (Rees Zammitt, Curry and Itoje)


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 14, 2021)

One the lions let slip, why not take.The scrum before the half.
Breakdown will be key,.laws.will play.6.
Time to jettison some.of the welsh.
Didn't rate zammit tonight, itoje is immense if he loses his place.to.awj God help the lions.


----------



## fundy (Jul 20, 2021)

And to the surprise of absolutely no one, all 3 tests to be played in Cape Town


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2021)

Lions team to face South Africa: Hogg; Watson, Daly, Henshaw, Van Der Merwe; Biggar, Price; W Jones, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, Itoje, AW Jones (capt), Lawes, Curry, Conan.

_Replacements:_ Owens, Sutherland, Sinckler, Beirne, H Watson, Murray, Farrell, L Williams.

No Simmonds which is the surprise for me


----------



## Captainron (Jul 21, 2021)

Faletau??? Wow. Never saw him missing the squad for this


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 22, 2021)

Captainron said:



			Faletau??? Wow. Never saw him missing the squad for this
		
Click to expand...

He's looked off the pace in the warm up games imo.


----------



## Piece (Jul 22, 2021)

Get a dislocated shoulder in football and you're out for 6 months. AWJ does it and he's back in a month. What was the actual injury in order for him to come back so fast?


----------



## IanM (Jul 24, 2021)

Rugby- get hurt, but pretend you're not.
Football- not hurt, but pretend you are!


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 24, 2021)

Come on Lions 🦁


----------



## Piece (Jul 24, 2021)

Looking forward to this. Added bonus is that I have a further reason not to watch The 100. 😎


----------



## Dando (Jul 24, 2021)

Faf de clerk has a face you’d never get tired of slapping


----------



## IanM (Jul 24, 2021)

Tough watch this...


----------



## Piece (Jul 24, 2021)

Not alot going on here.


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 24, 2021)

It's just like watching England


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2021)

That’s the way to start the second half 😁


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 24, 2021)

Will Greenwood is awful as a commentator


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2021)

And that’s the reply- on field decision going to give it , can’t overturn that

But the SA TMO has overturned it 🤷‍♂😂😂😂


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2021)

That’s a try


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2021)

What a brilliant second half -great start to the series
what a performance from Lawes


----------



## Piece (Jul 24, 2021)

Near shut out second half. 👏👏👏


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 24, 2021)

Cracking win, will be  a large ice bath to get them all in


----------



## HeftyHacker (Jul 24, 2021)

Didn't expect that! Not followed this tour too closely with me having a newborn but managed to catch the second half of this and was really impressed. Very mature performance and Lawes was a beast.

Looking forward to the other two tests now after dreading a whitewash prior to the tour. Especially given some of the selections - in particular the midfield.


----------



## chrisd (Jul 24, 2021)

Good win  - awful commentary!


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 24, 2021)

Dando said:



			Faf de clerk has a face you’d never get tired of slapping
		
Click to expand...

He's a pretty mean golfer too! Another reason to not let your sister anywhere near him!
Still the best half-back in the world imo - though I haven't studied all possible candidates for a while! Up there with Sid Going in my 'all time greatest' number 9s!


----------



## Biggleswade Blue (Jul 24, 2021)

All very scrappy. Anthony Watson looks very vulnerable under a high ball, Courtney Laws was superb, and Alun Wyn Jones clearly very important with his calm decision making. But the Lions look like a thrown together Barbarians team, rather than a side that has had a proper build up. South Africa full of mistakes, don’t look fit either, unsurprising as their build up was similarly non existent. This is a long way from being a classic Lions tour.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2021)

Well looks like is the little rant against the referees has worked 🙄


----------



## Piece (Jul 31, 2021)

Another really ugly game of rugby. War of attrition


----------



## spongebob59 (Jul 31, 2021)

Out muscled in the 2nd half, can't wait to see the erasmus video on this one 😉


----------



## Val (Aug 1, 2021)

Horrible game yesterday but now all to play for in the final test


----------



## GB72 (Aug 1, 2021)

Val said:



			Horrible game yesterday but now all to play for in the final test
		
Click to expand...

Sadly I suspect a knock on of 2 teams undercooked in preparation


----------



## AmandaJR (Aug 1, 2021)

Hogg needs to spend all week catching high balls - he was awful and it will be a repeat tactic from SA.


----------



## IanM (Aug 1, 2021)

Piece said:



			Another really ugly game of rugby. War of attrition
		
Click to expand...

Oh for a Gareth Edwards going over in the corner try!!   Rugby Union is heading in a bad direction


----------



## spongebob59 (Aug 1, 2021)

Sincklers been cited for biting now 😱🤯


----------



## fundy (Aug 1, 2021)

video looks inconclusive but he doesnt have the cleanest track record and seems to be being found guilty already. I hope he isnt, if he is it is soooooooooooooo stupid


----------



## pokerjoke (Aug 7, 2021)

How to spoil a rugby match 
Probably 4 minutes of rugby in 18 minutes played.
Pathetic tackling by the Lions for the try.


----------



## Piece (Aug 7, 2021)

Another turgid game of rugby. Thankfully that series is over.


----------



## Captainron (Aug 7, 2021)




----------



## Captainron (Aug 7, 2021)

A win against the Lions is an amazing feat. I’ll take it whatever way it comes.

I still don’t think the tour should have taken place though. It should have been postponed to next year.


----------



## spongebob59 (Aug 7, 2021)

I hope that SA don't get invited to the 6N, bore fest zzzzzzzzzz.
World rugby need to look into and ban some of their antics.
Disgraceful.


----------



## hairball_89 (Aug 7, 2021)

spongebob59 said:



			I hope that SA don't get invited to the 6N, bore fest zzzzzzzzzz.
World rugby need to look into and ban some of their antics.
Disgraceful.
		
Click to expand...

While I get what you're saying...

The lions should have gone in at half time today 3-20. The non-conversion of the 2 on 1 on the right wing was criminal. Being infront if the posts and going for the corner, understandable but stupid. 

The main organiser of borefest rugby in my eyes is Gatland. 

Anyway, positives...? Lawes is a monster. Finn Russell was sublime today. No rugby in 6 weeks, I think it was. Comes on after 11 minutes and puts in that performance. 

For me, poor decision making cost the lions today and last week and therefore the series. As rugby players, and as a team, they were easily good enough to win the series. But in game decision making hugely let them down.


----------



## spongebob59 (Aug 8, 2021)

Undoubtedly they should have been out of sight at the half, once again within minutes of the second half we had the fake medics, water carriers and stud changes. This needs to be clamped down on. SA should enter the NFL us they want to play like this.

https://rugbyonslaught.com/the-moment-that-finally-proved-this-lions-tour-was-a-farce/


----------



## Captainron (Aug 8, 2021)

Morne Steyn bookended his career with 2 penalties to beat the Lions. Pretty awesome.


----------



## Captainron (Aug 8, 2021)

spongebob59 said:



https://rugbyonslaught.com/the-moment-that-finally-proved-this-lions-tour-was-a-farce/

Click to expand...

This onslaught guy is an absolute clown. His page is so unbalanced that he has fallen off the reality spectrum.


----------



## GB72 (Aug 8, 2021)

South Africa deserved it over the 3 tests. Says everything when the Lions only scored 2 tries over 3 tests and both through the forwards.

Some may disagree but I remain of the opinion that this tour has done more harm than good to the Lions and rugby. Poor test matches between under prepared sides, poor attitude from the management on both sides, constant niggling on and off the pitch, matches slowed down, no fans, no community interaction, no traveling (so hardly a tour) and just none of the joy that a lions tour brings to the host nation. Should never have happened but it is over now so hopefully everyone gets home safe and well and we can look forward to the new season.


----------



## spongebob59 (Aug 8, 2021)

For me, this was an unimaginative Lions squad, selected by a man living off past glories. He tried to beat SA by out-playing them at their own game, always a recipe for disappointment. Then for the last test he selected a team to play a totally different game plan. They had not trained for it, were uncomfortable with it it and consequently made errors trying to execute it. If Russell had not come on we would have seen another easy SA win.

Gatland's day is over, was actually over before this tour started. Rugby has moved on, but he has not.

The Lions board is not up to the job. An eight game tour is not a realistic Lions tour, and the board should accept that, telling the three SH nations that the Lions concept has run its course, and that without reversion to a full traditional tour the Lions will disband. If other nations disagree or feel left out, they should arrange their own multi national equivalents. A pan-European quadrennial tour, France, Italy, Georgia etc could generate a similar cycle of interest.


----------



## spongebob59 (Aug 9, 2021)

This about sums it up :


When British and Irish Lions historians look back on the 2021 tour to South Africa, they will have to say that no part of it was ideal. Much of this was due to the Covid pandemic, but some were of their own and the Springboks’ making. 

Limited positives were that the tour was completed, and it was competitive on the field. Of the many negatives, two tries in three Tests (none by a Lion’s back) is not going to advance the cause of the Lions, or rugby in general, when it is compared to summer of thrilling sport elsewhere.

The post-match reactions of both sets of players showed that it was a series that had meaning for them and, even though they are professionals, they should get credit for making the tour work, under very restrictive and unenviable conditions.

Let us get last Saturday out of the way. Forced into an early change of focus when Dan Biggar limped off, the Lions were stimulated by Finn Russell’s arrival, and he galvanised their game in several ways.

His very presence meant South African defenders did not drift off him, knowing he is capable of exploiting any small space offered by a defence. With that fraction of extra time Russell’s distribution enabled the Lions to vary where their ball carriers were tackled, a point I have laboured over the last few weeks because of its importance. 

As Russell attracted defenders and organised runners off both shoulders, he moved the ball inside and out meaning the Lions ball carriers got across the gain line consistently and from subsequent phases got quick ball. The difference between the previous week, and even the first 10 minutes, was significant enough to embolden the Lions and put the Boks firmly on the back foot.


Although the Lions recorded a first-half try, they left at least 10, and maybe as many as 17 points off the scoreboard by missing penalty kicks, missing a walk-in overlap, being penalised in the act of driving a maul over the line and declining to take kickable penalties.

After half time, and when the benches emptied, momentum gradually swung back in favour of South Africa, aided by the fact that the Lions again eschewed several kicks at goal and then did not score. The wisdom of these decisions is quite simple: they are only right if you score. The Lions didn’t and that kept the Boks in touching distance. 


Kicking the penalties would have created scoreboard pressure and South Africa would, at some point, have had to expand their game. As it was, they did not have to depart from their kick and chase game, which gradually wore down the Lions. Add to this another individually brilliant try from Cheslin Kolbe and that was it, the Lions lost by three points.

Overall, and leaving aside the debatable officiating decisions and doubtful decision-making, the fact is that over the three Tests the Springboks were the better team. They were only marginally so, but at this level that is all that is needed.

When the Lions reflect on their performances, they will see that they simply did not create enough try-scoring chances and for far too many minutes of every game they were either forced or chose to play at a tempo which suited South Africa. Only in the second half of the first Test and the first half of the third did they move the Springboks out of their comfort zone. 

Last Saturday, unlike the first Test, they did not score enough points when they were dominant. Only when Russell came on did they have sufficient variety in their points of attack and they should feel that they missed several opportunities to win this series.

Rassie Erasmus' antics helped to create a toxic atmosphere for much of the series

History will also record that this was a series played against a sour background where officials were blamed for the results, rather than the failings of either team, which is where the real problem lies. 



The behaviour of Rassie Erasmus, and, to a much lesser extent, Warren Gatland was unedifying and what World Rugby chooses to do about this and other issues needs scrutiny.

There is no reason to have waterboys who are also members of the team or management – leave the players to play and coaches to coach. If not, why not get rid of all this artifice and make it official for players to be wired-up to their coaching teams like the NFL? 

There is also nothing positive to come from allowing anyone officially connected with a team to ignore official channels and make social media the avenue of complaint about any aspect of the game. When you raise points like this you are always accused of overreacting but, honestly, where do you think all this will lead if unchecked?


----------



## IanM (Aug 9, 2021)

Why did they not kick the pens?  Seemed odd to me and I am just a watcher than an expert of the game.


----------



## spongebob59 (Aug 9, 2021)

The first driving maul was a fair call as they had already scored from one, there after they should have kicked the points.


----------



## Val (Aug 9, 2021)

I love watching the Lions but it's a tour and without fans it's a fraction of what it's all about, I agree it should have been postponed.

As for the games, I'm unsure if we expected anything other than 3 arm wrestles


----------



## GB72 (Aug 9, 2021)

Val said:



			I love watching the Lions but it's a tour and without fans it's a fraction of what it's all about, I agree it should have been postponed.

As for the games, I'm unsure if we expected anything other than 3 arm wrestles
		
Click to expand...

An arm wrestle is about the only way to guarantee not beating South Africa unfortunately.


----------



## Val (Aug 10, 2021)

GB72 said:



			An arm wrestle is about the only way to guarantee not beating South Africa unfortunately.
		
Click to expand...

As Gatland has just found out


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 13, 2021)

Immense from Ireland to beat the All Blacks - fully deserved. Some outstanding performances- Ringrose just a beast


----------



## Captainron (Nov 13, 2021)

Now just need England to get smashed.


----------



## Piece (Nov 13, 2021)

Ireland v NZ was a proper game. None of this Burnley up and under dull fest.


----------



## Captainron (Nov 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Ireland v NZ was a proper game. None of this Burnley up and under dull fest.
		
Click to expand...

Wins World Cups 😘


----------



## Captainron (Nov 13, 2021)

England do look worryingly good though. Nobody likes to see that!


----------



## Piece (Nov 13, 2021)

Captainron said:



			England do look worryingly good though. Nobody likes to see that!
		
Click to expand...

Still the old England though in not being as clinical as the very top teams. Should be another 7 ahead.


----------



## Piece (Nov 13, 2021)

Strange game. England average second half and Aussies rubbish. Don’t think SA will be too worried about next week.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 13, 2021)

Piece said:



			Strange game. England average second half and Aussies rubbish. Don’t think SA will be too worried about next week.
		
Click to expand...

I don't know.....EJ obviously trying different things and personel. I thought they looked reasonable considering they are starting the run to the next World Cup


----------



## GB72 (Nov 13, 2021)

I am somewhat confused. Manu has been known as a battering ram centre not for his skills. Suffered from injuries so lost a lot of bulk to keep fit and people still rely on him despite lacking the skills to back up his new lack of physical presence. Time to move on there.

Steward looked superb and, ironically would still be in a Tigers academy shirt if Veainu had not left because he would not take a covid pay cut.

England still short a centre and I am not sure why we dropped Radwan. Just the usual Jones having fun with meaningless matches


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Nov 13, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I am somewhat confused. Manu has been known as a battering ram centre not for his skills. Suffered from injuries so lost a lot of bulk to keep fit and people still rely on him despite lacking the skills to back up his new lack of physical presence. Time to move on there.

Steward looked superb and, ironically would still be in a Tigers academy shirt if Veainu had not left because he would not take a covid pay cut.

England still short a centre and I am not sure why we dropped Radwan. Just the usual Jones having fun with meaningless matches
		
Click to expand...

I fail to see why we have to shoehorn Farrell in anywhere...if he aint flyhalf then leave him out.


----------



## Grizzly (Nov 13, 2021)

Biggest thing was, Smith and Farrell may not work, especially if Curry is going to play 8. It worked more or less for George Ford, largely because he never brought a running game to international rugby, but Marcus is so much better with at least one, ideally two hitters around him so that he gets a moment of space on second phase ball.  You sense Farrell going off injured might be a godsend, allowing Tuilagi (or Mark Atkinson) to play 12 and bring back a finisher, Radwan or Malins, out wide.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 13, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I fail to see why we have to shoehorn Farrell in anywhere...if he aint flyhalf then leave him out.
		
Click to expand...

Agree but that is EJ for you. Farrell perfect on the bench for 10/12 cover but if not starting 10 then not on the pitch


----------



## Grizzly (Nov 13, 2021)

GB72 said:



			I am somewhat confused. Manu has been known as a battering ram centre not for his skills. Suffered from injuries so lost a lot of bulk to keep fit and people still rely on him despite lacking the skills to back up his new lack of physical presence. Time to move on there.

Steward looked superb and, ironically would still be in a Tigers academy shirt if Veainu had not left because he would not take a covid pay cut.

England still short a centre and I am not sure why we dropped Radwan. Just the usual Jones having fun with meaningless matches
		
Click to expand...

Nah, Tuilagi is fine played in position. He may not be as big as he was but he's big enough, has a two footed step and a decent turn of speed. He just isn't a winger.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 13, 2021)

Grizzly said:



			Nah, Tuilagi is fine played in position. He may not be as big as he was but he's big enough, has a two footed step and a decent turn of speed. He just isn't a winger.
		
Click to expand...

Used to be when I first watched him. Not convinced that you can make a skilful centre out of him. Ok part of that is being a bit bitter from the attitude to Tigers last year but as a general rugby fan I would love to see the Manu magic back but I just cannot see it and cannot see him transitioning to another style of play.


----------



## Grizzly (Nov 13, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Used to be when I first watched him. Not convinced that you can make a skilful centre out of him. Ok part of that is being a bit bitter from the attitude to Tigers last year but as a general rugby fan I would love to see the Manu magic back but I just cannot see it and cannot see him transitioning to another style of play.
		
Click to expand...

Point is, I don't think he needs to. He's the ideal 12 for a Smith helmed attack.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 13, 2021)

I watched the England game in a pub. We all loved it. Exciting stuff, better than the turgid displays of last year. Of course, beer may have influenced our view but probably not 🤔🍻😄


----------



## JamesR (Nov 13, 2021)

I assume Farrell is playing along side Smith just to support him as he starts his international carrier. Rather than just  throwing him in at the deep end.
Also, it’s a time to start trying potential partnerships going forward.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 16, 2021)

https://fb.watch/9jM2SUbq3R/

This is just incredible to watch


----------



## upsidedown (Nov 16, 2021)

Amazing, wonder how many future AB's were playing in that .


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 20, 2021)

What a great game 👏👏👏

The young team can certainly attack with a bit more pace and flair


----------



## pokerjoke (Nov 20, 2021)

Yes as has been said a very entertaining game.
The good start won us the game.
Got battered up front,scrummed off the park,and gave more penalties away for infringements.
A wins a win though.
Oh and couldn’t win our own line out when it mattered.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 20, 2021)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes as has been said a very entertaining game.
The good start won us the game.
Got battered up front,scrummed off the park,and gave more penalties away for infringements.
A wins a win though.
Oh and couldn’t win our own line out when it mattered.
		
Click to expand...

As a Tigers fan I am still not sure why Dolly was in the squad. A championship player with 3 decent Tigers performances under his belt. Genge getting covid did not help


----------



## HeftyHacker (Nov 20, 2021)

GB72 said:



			As a Tigers fan I am still not sure why Dolly was in the squad. A championship player with 3 decent Tigers performances under his belt. Genge getting covid did not help
		
Click to expand...

It was apparently something to do with access to certain players due to Covid restrictions. Hence the somewhat bizarre callups for injury replacements through the AIs.

Great match if not always the highest quality. Brilliantly taken tries that were a minor miracle given the lack of platform we had. I think the Smith and Slade axis gives us a tonne of creativity in the backs and it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had tuilagi stayed on given he's the most reliable line breaker in the squad.

Steward the find of the series for me though, phenomenal player who looks to the Manor born in the role of a modern fullback.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 20, 2021)

HeftyHacker said:



			It was apparently something to do with access to certain players due to Covid restrictions. Hence the somewhat bizarre callups for injury replacements through the AIs.

Great match if not always the highest quality. Brilliantly taken tries that were a minor miracle given the lack of platform we had. I think the Smith and Slade axis gives us a tonne of creativity in the backs and it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had tuilagi stayed on given he's the most reliable line breaker in the squad.

Steward the find of the series for me though, phenomenal player who looks to the Manor born in the role of a modern fullback.
		
Click to expand...

Steward has been superb since he first pulled on a Tigers shirt. Has a long international career ahead. Smith and Slade looked great but the only issue is if Jones tries to shoehorn Farrell in. Manu is a busted flush now, just not reliable physically to he able to build a back line with him in.


----------



## Piece (Nov 20, 2021)

Shame I missed this cheeky win against SA. Lovely stuff


----------



## Grizzly (Nov 20, 2021)

What I think has been missed about the performance today is, that is exactly the type of situation in which England have lost in the past five years. They achieved parity in the pack in the first half but the Bokke brought something else in the second half, and had clearly "won" the referee, but where farrell/Ford England would have kept on with the same old, this version worked out a way. 

Some of Eddie's selections make no sense but fair play to him, he has reinvented the attack.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Nov 20, 2021)

Really like the France kit. It's got the feel of an "Escape to Victory" away kit worn back to front.


----------



## Foxholer (Nov 20, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Really like the France kit. It's got the feel of an "Escape to Victory" away kit worn back to front.






Click to expand...

Strange looking goalposts - at least for this thread - though!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 26, 2021)

Great game between Bristol and Leicester 

Ref was involved a bit too much and gave a few questionable decisions- and not sure why the accidental offside was ignored during the winning try phase


----------



## GB72 (Dec 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great game between Bristol and Leicester

Ref was involved a bit too much and gave a few questionable decisions- and not sure why the accidental offside was ignored during the winning try phase
		
Click to expand...

Still a great result in the Genge derby. One back for Lam's sub antics last year


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 5, 2022)

Bit of a thread resurrection but better than starting a new one. 

Turmoil in Premiership rugby right now, Worcester have effectively been wound up, players contracts terminated. They are likely to be relegated, unlikely to play again this season. At the same time Wasps are close to going into administration, possibly as a protective measure but it is never good still.

Is this all feeding through from no crowds during Covid or are teams just paying too much out in wages?

Worrying times for club rugby.


----------



## Bdill93 (Oct 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bit of a thread resurrection but better than starting a new one.

Turmoil in Premiership rugby right now, Worcester have effectively been wound up, players contracts terminated. They are likely to be relegated, unlikely to play again this season. At the same time Wasps are close to going into administration, possibly as a protective measure but it is never good still.

Is this all feeding through from no crowds during Covid or are teams just paying too much out in wages?

Worrying times for club rugby.
		
Click to expand...

Worcester is a mess, I've got friends who are/ were employed there in various capacities - its a shambles. God knows what happens to the facilities etc, a whole mess of dodgy dealings from the owners. 

On top of this - I heard a lot on the radio this morning about research into head injuries and brain issues later in life for Rugby players - insanely worrying stuff, to the point that really, Rugby needs seriously looking at. 

I'm not the biggest fan of the sport myself, certainly wouldn't look to get my son into it over Golf or Football - but his grandpa was a STH at Worcester Warriors and to see the club fall apart is awful.


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Is this all feeding through from no crowds during Covid or are teams just paying too much out in wages?
		
Click to expand...

Reminds me of when Moseley went bust because the funding was less than the wage bill.
Moseley have since rebuilt but it took time.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 5, 2022)

I am a massive rugby fan and you have a whole mess of stories going on here. 

Worcester: Cowboy owners, looks like they have been assest stripped and left to rot. Not good at all. 

Wasps: Relocated to Coventry and took out a massive bond on the Stadium. Covid has impacted on other facilities there but they are skint. 

Rugby overall. About half the league attract viable crowds, the other half rely on investment or shrewd management to survive. Basic fact is that rugby has not kicked on as a spectator sport and half the teams have attendances that just cannot support current wage demands. Rugby players are not paid anywhere near football wages but the clubs still cannot afford the £500000.00 a year that some players demand. Needs to be a total re-evaluation of what clubs can pay. The TV money is not there and media coverage and air time is so skewed towards permiership football that no other sport stands a chance away from international level. 

Medical Issues. With impact issues and the general dangerous nature of the sport, parents, clubs are schools simply do not want to take the risk of playing. 

All sorts of issues and the moment and I started a thread a whilst ago about whether the end for rugby as a sport could be in sight. I am still not convinced it is not.


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 5, 2022)

I think with Worcester the issue is not the viability of the club as it was, but of the club as it is now the owners have asset stripped it. Its sad to see, and ought to be illegal.


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 5, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			Worcester is a mess, I've got friends who are/ were employed there in various capacities - its a shambles. God knows what happens to the facilities etc, a whole mess of dodgy dealings from the owners.
		
Click to expand...

Having lost their home, I have never got to know why Worcester City FC turned down a move to share the stadium. They still have quite a big support for non-league.



			On top of this - I heard a lot on the radio this morning about research into head injuries and brain issues later in life for Rugby players - insanely worrying stuff, to the point that really, Rugby needs seriously looking at.
		
Click to expand...

Rugby players 15 times more likely to develop neurological brain disease.



			I'm not the biggest fan of the sport myself, certainly wouldn't look to get my son into it over Golf or Football - but his grandpa was a STH at Worcester Warriors and to see the club fall apart is awful.
		
Click to expand...

Neither am I but they do have a fantastic stadium which can be seen from the M5. £6 million unpaid tax bill.


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 5, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Wasps: Relocated to Coventry and took out a massive bond on the Stadium. Covid has impacted on other facilities there but they are skint.
		
Click to expand...

They even opened an elite training centre miles away at Henley in Arden, Warwickshire which is now deserted.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 5, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			I think with Worcester the issue is not the viability of the club as it was, but of the club as it is now the owners have asset stripped it. Its sad to see, and ought to be illegal.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly the viability of most rugby clubs is in question. When you look at half of the clubs getting gates of under 8000 and most posting an annual loss there really is a concern over most of them. Worcester was an extreme with bad owners but many more clubs are on the brink.


----------



## RichA (Oct 5, 2022)

Steve Thompson: Rugby World Cup winner describes impact of dementia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63131221
44 years old with early onset dementia and worrying about being a burden on his family. Sad.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 5, 2022)

RichA said:



			Steve Thompson: Rugby World Cup winner describes impact of dementia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63131221
44 years old with early onset dementia and worrying about being a burden on his family. Sad.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly, there is currently no answer to this. To keep going, the clubs and the unions need more games and smaller squads whilst to maintain player welfare, the players need less games and smaller squads. The numbers and physical demands of rugby just do not add up at the moment and I fear for its future as a sport and it is the sport I have played and loved since I was 7.


----------



## Old Skier (Oct 5, 2022)

It was obvious when they thought they could compete in the same way as football without the fan base, tv coverage or the same massive sponsorship it was obvious the model was doomed for failure. More to follow.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 5, 2022)

Old Skier said:



			It was obvious when they thought they could compete in the same way as football without the fan base, tv coverage or the same massive sponsorship it was obvious the model was doomed for failure. More to follow.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that more will follow but I am not sure that it was as obvious from the outset. Even now, with the biggest wages being less than a footballer earns in a week, the market could be there but there are no end of factors that have come in to it. Increating international demands and rest periods means that the big names are not at the clubs for half the season to attract people to come and watch. The RFU does little to promote the club game off solid interest in international rugby. Premiership football has simply crushed all other sports to the extent that they receive next to no media coverage on TV, on the radio or in the press and so are withering. I am actually surprised that the Worcester story was even mentioned on a day with Champions League matches. 

Sadly rugby is destined to go the same way as county cricket, a centrally funded feeder system for the England team.


----------



## D-S (Oct 5, 2022)

A local private school has invested heavily in a golf programme and many parents are selecting this in preference to rugby reportedly due to health concerns. Good for golf, concerning for the future of rugby as schools such as this one provided much talent currently playing.


----------



## Bdill93 (Oct 5, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Having lost their home, *I have never got to know why Worcester City FC turned down a move to share the stadium. *They still have quite a big support for non-league.

Rugby players 15 times more likely to develop neurological brain disease.

Neither am I but they do have a fantastic stadium which can be seen from the M5. £6 million unpaid tax bill.
		
Click to expand...

Not a clue - Its all been weird! Worcester FC now play literally round the corner from me (and over the road from my golf club)

Worcester Raiders - once a Saturday league side - were the team that swapped ground with WCFC and then went on to use the astro at Sixways...

Weird dealings!!


----------



## fundy (Oct 5, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I agree that more will follow but I am not sure that it was as obvious from the outset. Even now, with the biggest wages being less than a footballer earns in a week, the market could be there but there are no end of factors that have come in to it. Increating international demands and rest periods means that the big names are not at the clubs for half the season to attract people to come and watch. The RFU does little to promote the club game off solid interest in international rugby. Premiership football has simply crushed all other sports to the extent that they receive next to no media coverage on TV, on the radio or in the press and so are withering. I am actually surprised that the Worcester story was even mentioned on a day with Champions League matches.

Sadly rugby is destined to go the same way as county cricket, a centrally funded feeder system for the England team.
		
Click to expand...


I actually think this i the beginning of the end for rugby as we know it sadly. Ultimately a huge part of rugbys appeal is the impact/contact nature of the game and the more they are sanitised the less the sport will appeal, at least to its traditional/current fan base. They have spent several years trying to change the laws to make the game safer but to little effect (some have actually made it far worse) and small tweaks to the laws arent going to make the game as safe for the players as it needs to be from a long term health impact (and associated litigation) perspective. The only way that can/will happen is if you remove most if not all of the current high impact contact situations (tackles, scrums, rucks, mauls)

Add in the huge issues that have arisen from the game becoming a professional sport overnight and the resultant commercialisation leading to far more "stakeholders" all wanting a bigger slice of a limited size pie increasing the financial pressure on almost every club and organisation. Rugby is not alone in facing a lot of these issues, but may be less well placed and run to be able to make the necessary transformation that is going to be needed in a relatively short period of time

Genuinely struggle to see what rugby looks like in 5 or 10 years time, and if it exists as a professional sport at all, in what form it does, as it wont be the current one. A newer format based on 7s with less contact situations engineered through specific law changes? maybe?


----------



## GB72 (Oct 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			I actually think this i the beginning of the end for rugby as we know it sadly. Ultimately a huge part of rugbys appeal is the impact/contact nature of the game and the more they are sanitised the less the sport will appeal, at least to its traditional/current fan base. They have spent several years trying to change the laws to make the game safer but to little effect (some have actually made it far worse) and small tweaks to the laws arent going to make the game as safe for the players as it needs to be from a long term health impact (and associated litigation) perspective. The only way that can/will happen is if you remove most if not all of the current high impact contact situations (tackles, scrums, rucks, mauls)

Add in the huge issues that have arisen from the game becoming a professional sport overnight and the resultant commercialisation leading to far more "stakeholders" all wanting a bigger slice of a limited size pie increasing the financial pressure on almost every club and organisation. Rugby is not alone in facing a lot of these issues, but may be less well placed and run to be able to make the necessary transformation that is going to be needed in a relatively short period of time

Genuinely struggle to see what rugby looks like in 5 or 10 years time, and if it exists as a professional sport at all, in what form it does, as it wont be the current one. A newer format based on 7s with less contact situations engineered through specific law changes? maybe?
		
Click to expand...

The only solution that I have come up with is to increase the time that the ball is in play and limit the substitutions. The increase in impact is, in part, to the bulk of the players and they can bulk up because there is now less need to focus on stamina. You make that a focus of training again to be able to last the full match and maybe you reduce player size and lower the level of impact. That is clutching at straws though. If the current law suit is sucessful, that it enough to bankrupt the various unions and the clubs if theim aim for them next. Sadly, I see the game I love on its way out. Simple fact is that rugby is not safe, never has been.


----------



## fundy (Oct 5, 2022)

GB72 said:



*The only solution that I have come up with is to increase the time that the ball is in play and limit the substitutions. The increase in impact is, in part, to the bulk of the players and they can bulk up because there is now less need to focus on stamina.* You make that a focus of training again to be able to last the full match and maybe you reduce player size and lower the level of impact. That is clutching at straws though. If the current law suit is sucessful, that it enough to bankrupt the various unions and the clubs if theim aim for them next. Sadly, I see the game I love on its way out. Simple fact is that rugby is not safe, never has been.
		
Click to expand...


That ship sailed many years ago sadly (and was one of the laws that have made it worse i was referring to) and actually with some of the recent studies wont be deemed to make the game safe enough. You and I would like to find a solution which encouraged players running into spaces rather than contact, the ball in play far more (and in hand) and the game closely resembling the one we played. Thats not going to cut it in the litigious world this is headed to, where the only acceptable level I expect will be no contact of the type we are used to and that will be the death knell of rugby as a professional sport imo

Soon to follow; boxing, ufc, american fooball, aussie rules football not to mention heading becoming an extension of handball in football, bouncers banned from cricket etc etc


----------



## GB72 (Oct 5, 2022)

fundy said:



			That ship sailed many years ago sadly (and was one of the laws that have made it worse i was referring to) and actually with some of the recent studies wont be deemed to make the game safe enough. You and I would like to find a solution which encouraged players running into spaces rather than contact, the ball in play far more (and in hand) and the game closely resembling the one we played. Thats not going to cut it in the litigious world this is headed to, where the only acceptable level I expect will be no contact of the type we are used to and that will be the death knell of rugby as a professional sport imo

Soon to follow; boxing, ufc, american fooball, aussie rules football not to mention heading becoming an extension of handball in football, bouncers banned from cricket etc etc
		
Click to expand...

Sadly, legend that he was, Lomu started the arms race when it came to size and speed and people have been looking to achieve that ever since. Flankers used to be the size that backs are now. As you say, this is coming to all sports and I suspect that football is the only one that can afford the pay outs and keep going like NFL has. 

Sadly, what we got with the finance side is too many clubs ramping up prices because the wealthy owners had no concern about actual revienue. If the sport is to continue, the salary cap needs to be set at a percentage of revenue not at an arbitrary number as that will also encourage clubs to attract new fans and investment. Hell, covid nearly took down Tigers and we ahve circa 20000 through the gates every week.


----------



## Val (Oct 5, 2022)

Worcester sadly wrote cheques they couldn't afford. Best part of £750k a year for 2 Scottish Lions sored their wage bill. Sad for fans, players and club employees. Owners should hang their heads in shame which sadly they haven't, blamed everyone but themselves.


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 5, 2022)

GB72 said:



			The only solution that I have come up with is to increase the time that the ball is in play and limit the substitutions. The increase in impact is, in part, to the bulk of the players and they can bulk up because there is now less need to focus on stamina. You make that a focus of training again to be able to last the full match and maybe you reduce player size and lower the level of impact. That is clutching at straws though. If the current law suit is sucessful, that it enough to bankrupt the various unions and the clubs if theim aim for them next. Sadly, I see the game I love on its way out. Simple fact is that rugby is not safe, never has been.
		
Click to expand...

You are spot in here.

When I was 17/18 and played at what became the Falcons, I was considered huge at 6 foot 3 and about 17 stone (I played full back).  Now, I would be average at best, and likely dwarfed by players whose body fat percentage is lower than I could ever have managed.  The same applies through the pack - and crucially, there is no longer the expectation that many of these big beasts would have to last the 80 minutes - even in club rugby it has become the expected norm that you will use a full bench (part of the reason I managed to keep going in to my 40s!).

So, if you married up an increase in the in play time (suggested measures?  The equivalent of a play clock for both sides to be ready for set pieces, replacing reset/no fault scrums with a free kick to the side with the put in, clearing up some of the more arcane rules to reduce technical penalties) with a reduction in the number of substitutes on the bench, and on the number of non-injury related substitutions, even to zero, would make a huge different in making the game safer, more exciting, and also cheaper at the top level because you would require smaller squads.


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 5, 2022)

Val said:



			Worcester sadly wrote cheques they couldn't afford. Best part of £750k a year for 2 Scottish Lions sored their wage bill. Sad for fans, players and club employees. Owners should hang their heads in shame which sadly they haven't, blamed everyone but themselves.
		
Click to expand...

That won't have helped, but my understanding is that they would only - if "only" is a concept when we are talking about seven figure sums - be short what the pandemic cost them and therefore a viable bet for a new investor were it not for the fact that the owners have effectively gifted themselves facilities and tracts of land into shell companies from the original club.


----------



## azazel (Oct 6, 2022)

As someone with the typical Six Nations and World Cup-related passing interest in rugby, are other countries encountering the same problems? I would imagine the safety elements would apply worldwide but are finances an issue in France, NZ, Oz etc?


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 6, 2022)

Finances are a different issue in the SANZAR countries - their issue is more about their ability to match the levels of salary on offer in the Northern Hemisphere, particularly in France.


----------



## funkycoldmedina (Oct 6, 2022)

That was a really tough watch last night, absolutely desperate thing to have to go through and knowing what's in the near future for him and his family. 
As an RL fan many of the same issues will come up but the scrum training he said he had to endure was crazy. 
As a bare minimum the advisory contact training recommendation should be globally mandatory (so no country gains an on field advantage) and some sort of fund to look after this generation should be established.


----------



## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			You are spot in here.

When I was 17/18 and played at what became the Falcons, I was considered huge at 6 foot 3 and about 17 stone (I played full back).  Now, I would be average at best, and likely dwarfed by players whose body fat percentage is lower than I could ever have managed.  The same applies through the pack - and crucially, there is no longer the expectation that many of these big beasts would have to last the 80 minutes - even in club rugby it has become the expected norm that you will use a full bench (part of the reason I managed to keep going in to my 40s!).

So, if you married up an increase in the in play time (suggested measures?  The equivalent of a play clock for both sides to be ready for set pieces, replacing reset/no fault scrums with a free kick to the side with the put in, clearing up some of the more arcane rules to reduce technical penalties) with a reduction in the number of substitutes on the bench, and on the number of non-injury related substitutions, even to zero, would make a huge different in making the game safer, more exciting, and also cheaper at the top level because you would require smaller squads.
		
Click to expand...

Like @funkycoldmedina I'm also a Rugby League fan and the pressures and impacts that the RL players face are, IMHO, less than that faced by those of the Rugby Union forwards.  If you watch most Rugby Union games, it's very forward dominated.  Lots of rucks and mauls and players driving in hard, often with their heads.  It's a different game from when I used to play years ago.  And the fact that there are so many interchanges in the game these days (both codes) means that players do not have to have sufficient stamina to last the full 80 minutes.  That leads to heavier players with more impact.  I can't see, for example, a player the size of Shane Williams playing International Rugby with his size these days.  
I was watching an old RL Cup Final between Widnes and Wigan from 1984 and there were no substitutions.  All the players played the full 80 minutes.  That wouldn't happen these days.  
Rugby League pressures are different, the ball is in play for longer and the impacts are lower.  You can see the major difference in the size and build of the forwards between the two codes.  Of course, there is still the chance of long-term damage, and the situation with Rob Burrow is tragic.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 6, 2022)

Robster59 said:



			Like @funkycoldmedina I'm also a Rugby League fan and the pressures and impacts that the RL players face are, IMHO, less than that faced by those of the Rugby Union forwards.  If you watch most Rugby Union games, it's very forward dominated.  Lots of rucks and mauls and players driving in hard, often with their heads.  It's a different game from when I used to play years ago.  And the fact that there are so many interchanges in the game these days (both codes) means that players do not have to have sufficient stamina to last the full 80 minutes.  That leads to heavier players with more impact.  I can't see, for example, a player the size of Shane Williams playing International Rugby with his size these days. 
I was watching an old RL Cup Final between Widnes and Wigan from 1984 and there were no substitutions.  All the players played the full 80 minutes.  That wouldn't happen these days. 
Rugby League pressures are different, the ball is in play for longer and the impacts are lower.  You can see the major difference in the size and build of the forwards between the two codes.  Of course, there is still the chance of long-term damage, and the situation with Rob Burrow is tragic.
		
Click to expand...

Those days were truely hardcore. I have played only a few games of league and there is no way I could have kept up with the intensity for 80 minutes. The stamina needed was immense. 

Agree with what you say. The emphasis in union has become about 'winning' the tackle or the breadown which demands massive impact. The whole nature of union needs to change to make it in any way viable. Clearing out etc needs to stop. Sadly lowering the tackle height helps the person being tackled but it puts more risk of the tackler making contact wiht a knee or hip (which was how I got my one and only concussion). 

Sadly, rugby does not have the funding to provide long term support for those suffering as a result, the money is just not there at professional level and at club and lower level. I feel for every player suffering as there for the grace of God go I.


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 6, 2022)

Robster59 said:



			Like @funkycoldmedina   That leads to heavier players with more impact.  I can't see, for example, a player the size of Shane Williams playing International Rugby with his size these days.
		
Click to expand...

Cheslin Kolbe is probably the smallest international nowadays, not sure he's quite as diminutive as the Welsh Wizard though!


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 6, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Those days were truely hardcore. I have played only a few games of league and there is no way I could have kept up with the intensity for 80 minutes. The stamina needed was immense.

Agree with what you say. The emphasis in union has become about 'winning' the tackle or the breadown which demands massive impact. The whole nature of union needs to change to make it in any way viable. Clearing out etc needs to stop. Sadly lowering the tackle height helps the person being tackled but it puts more risk of the tackler making contact wiht a knee or hip (which was how I got my one and only concussion).

Sadly, rugby does not have the funding to provide long term support for those suffering as a result, the money is just not there at professional level and at club and lower level. I feel for every player suffering as there for the grace of God go I.
		
Click to expand...

Oddly, the finances retrospectively may not be the issue - they ought to be covered by employers' liability insurance.  Its the impact moving forwards that will be the killer, because premiums will skyrocket, even if the game makes the changes needed.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 6, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			Oddly, the finances retrospectively may not be the issue - they ought to be covered by employers' liability insurance.  Its the impact moving forwards that will be the killer, because premiums will skyrocket, even if the game makes the changes needed.
		
Click to expand...

I was commenting more on the point made earlier that the sport needs to set up a fund to help players suffering but the cost of that could run into millions if you are looking at the game from top to bottom and I suspect that the undiagnosed amateur cases could be a scary number. That is something the game just cannot afford. I also think much will depend on the insurance side as to how much a player was pressured or allowed to play when the advice at the time was clearly not to. That was very much the peak of the 'man up' generation when it came to rugby injuries.


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 6, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I was commenting more on the point made earlier that the sport needs to set up a fund to help players suffering but the cost of that could run into millions if you are looking at the game from top to bottom and I suspect that the undiagnosed amateur cases could be a scary number. That is something the game just cannot afford. I also think much will depend on the insurance side as to how much a player was pressured or allowed to play when the advice at the time was clearly not to. That was very much the peak of the 'man up' generation when it came to rugby injuries.
		
Click to expand...

I don't imagine it will be as significant of a problem in the lower ranks of the game - the level of intensity/physicality is not the same, nor is the amount of training that players have ever been required to do.  I hope I'm not proved wrong on that given the number of years I played!


----------



## GB72 (Oct 6, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			I don't imagine it will be as significant of a problem in the lower ranks of the game - the level of intensity/physicality is not the same, nor is the amount of training that players have ever been required to do.  I hope I'm not proved wrong on that given the number of years I played!
		
Click to expand...

My concern was more based on what can only be descrived as the 'relaxed' attitude to concusion, protocols, head impacts and injuries in general at the lower levels of the game, or at least when I played.


----------



## Grizzly (Oct 6, 2022)

GB72 said:



			My concern was more based on what can only be descrived as the 'relaxed' attitude to concusion, protocols, head impacts and injuries in general at the lower levels of the game, or at least when I played.
		
Click to expand...

Valid point - though one of my last appearance saw me red carded for a genuinely innocuous challenge because I made contact with the head so things were at least getting better - and I would imagine the fact of those games being amateur/between non contracted players would give the Governing Body some mitigation.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 6, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			Valid point - though one of my last appearance saw me red carded for a genuinely innocuous challenge because I made contact with the head so things were at least getting better - and I would imagine the fact of those games being amateur/between non contracted players would give the Governing Body some mitigation.
		
Click to expand...

Agree, from the stand point of any litigation I am fully in agreement. Again, on the subject of a fund for support in the future, the RFU as bastion of all things rugby, cannot be seen to abandon the amateur game on this and that is where the issue may come.


----------



## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2022)

GB72 said:



			My concern was more based on what can only be descrived as the 'relaxed' attitude to concusion, protocols, head impacts and injuries in general at the lower levels of the game, or at least when I played.
		
Click to expand...

It's something drilled into you in Rugby (all codes) that if you get a knock, you get on with it.  And then a shower and a beer afterwards should sort it all out.  I agree that at the lower levels, the protocols that they use in the professional game won't get followed with the same diligence.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 6, 2022)

Robster59 said:



			It's something drilled into you in Rugby (all codes) that if you get a knock, you get on with it.  And then a shower and a beer afterwards should sort it all out.  I agree that at the lower levels, the protocols that they use in the professional game won't get followed with the same diligence.
		
Click to expand...

Back in my day there were (as far as I am aware) no protocols and it was a miracle of there was any medical care at the ground below first team level. We had a bucket and sponge and that was it. I remember having to wait until full time and then half time in the 6 nations match in tv before someone would take me to hospital to have a dislocated shoulder popped back in (and then I was a wuss as some used to put them back in on the pitch and play on).


----------



## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Back in my day there were (as far as I am aware) no protocols and it was a miracle of there was any medical care at the ground below first team level. We had a bucket and sponge and that was it. I remember having to wait until full time and then half time in the 6 nations match in tv before someone would take me to hospital to have a dislocated shoulder popped back in (and then I was a wuss as some used to put them back in on the pitch and play on).
		
Click to expand...

Quite right


----------



## Val (Oct 6, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			Cheslin Kolbe is probably the smallest international nowadays, not sure he's quite as diminutive as the Welsh Wizard though!
		
Click to expand...

Darcy Graham very similar in size


----------



## Piece (Oct 6, 2022)

One of my team (football) has been side-lined due to rugby concussion for 23 days. He's 14!


----------



## HeftyHacker (Oct 6, 2022)

Piece said:



			One of my team (football) has been side-lined due to rugby concussion for 23 days. He's 14!
		
Click to expand...

Not uncommon unfortunately, I reckon I sustained possibly 3 concussions before I was 18, and that was as a winger so about as far away from the action as I could be. Standout protocols were pretty non existent and on one of the occasions I was pressured to come back early. This was only 13 years ago.

One of my friends has recently been diagnosed with MND at the age of 44 and its heartbreaking to see his deterioration in the 6 months or so since he was diagnosed. 

Covid and the recent news has definitely had a massive impact on the amateur game with many clubs struggling to get 2nds and junior teams out now. A lot of people had the enforced break over covid and simply never returned.

My club seems to be the exception to the rule and have actually recently restarted their 3rd team to make sure everyone can get a game at a weekend and avoid more players falling by the wayside.

I dont think there's another sport that quite breeds the same sense of camaraderie and belonging though and the demise of the amateur game would be/is a huge loss.


----------



## fundy (Oct 12, 2022)

Sounds like Wasps heading into administration having called off the Exeter game at the weekend


----------



## GB72 (Oct 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			Sounds like Wasps heading into administration having called off the Exeter game at the weekend 

Click to expand...

Yep, the prospective buyers did not want to take on the debt so are insisting on administration first. That also suggests that they want the ground and not the rugby club. Most speculation is that the prospective buyers want to buy the ground and buy the football club and have no interest in Wasps at all (cannot blame them, they are haemoraging money). At best they come back next year in the Championship but I suspect that we have seen the last of Wasps and Worcester as viable clubs.

Invites will be extended to a couple of Welsh regions to join the Premiership as there really are no prospective suitors in the league below who can help restructure and grow the league.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Oct 12, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Invites will be extended to a couple of Welsh regions to join the Premiership as there really are no prospective suitors in the league below who can help restructure and grow the league.
		
Click to expand...

This will be interesting. I'm a bit out of the loop on rugby politics but are the regions privately owned or owned by the WRU? And would that mean anything to them joining the premiership?


----------



## Val (Oct 12, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Yep, the prospective buyers did not want to take on the debt so are insisting on administration first. That also suggests that they want the ground and not the rugby club. Most speculation is that the prospective buyers want to buy the ground and buy the football club and have no interest in Wasps at all (cannot blame them, they are haemoraging money). At best they come back next year in the Championship but I suspect that we have seen the last of Wasps and Worcester as viable clubs.

Invites will be extended to a couple of Welsh regions to join the Premiership as there really are no prospective suitors in the league below who can help restructure and grow the league.
		
Click to expand...

None of the Welsh regions would add anything to the Premiership.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 12, 2022)

Val said:



			None of the Welsh regions would add anything to the Premiership.
		
Click to expand...

True except income from 2 more games and potentially attractive to fans. Not sure bringing up Ealing, Doncaster or Pirates would help, could work with a smaller league which has many benefits but that would need the income from Wasps and Worcester P shares to be split amongst the remaining clubs


----------



## Val (Oct 12, 2022)

GB72 said:



			True except income from 2 more games and potentially attractive to fans. Not sure bringing up Ealing, Doncaster or Pirates would help, could work with a smaller league which has many benefits but that would need the income from Wasps and Worcester P shares to be split amongst the remaining clubs
		
Click to expand...

Honestly, Scarlets have beautiful 16k seater stadium and they'll get 5k max, likewise at Ospreys in Swansea. The other pair are no better in smaller arenas. I wouldn't be so sure the URC would allow the WRU to withdraw 2 teams without asking them for money back. WRU are absolutely skint.


----------



## Captainron (Oct 15, 2022)

France have zero brains on the field against England. 6 points behind with 7 minutes to go and keep kicking the ball back to England who just hoof it back for territory. Their wings are particularly guilty. 

The overall standard has been less than stellar in this match and the tournament as a whole so far.


----------



## Val (Oct 15, 2022)

Captainron said:



			France have zero brains on the field against England. 6 points behind with 7 minutes to go and keep kicking the ball back to England who just hoof it back for territory. Their wings are particularly guilty.

The overall standard has been less than stellar in this match and the tournament as a whole so far.
		
Click to expand...

If you're going to kick for territory that late then the kick has to be contestable which it wasn't. Crazy play.


----------



## Captainron (Oct 15, 2022)

Val said:



			If you're going to kick for territory that late then the kick has to be contestable which it wasn't. Crazy play.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly. Do it once and there isn’t a chase? Don’t do it again! Spin it and have a go! Just ridiculously stupid play when you need to win. The French forwards were well on top towards the end and they didn’t utilise that at all either.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 15, 2022)

A question for those that follow both codes. Lots of talk about head injuries and early onset dementia etc but most of it seems to be with regards to Rugby Union rather than Rugby League. Admittedly I don't know much about Rugby League, I enjoy watching it but don't claim to be an expert, but is there a reason that Union seems to have more talk around these issues than League?


----------



## Captainron (Oct 15, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			A question for those that follow both codes. Lots of talk about head injuries and early onset dementia etc but most of it seems to be with regards to Rugby Union rather than Rugby League. Admittedly I don't know much about Rugby League, I enjoy watching it but don't claim to be an expert, but is there a reason that Union seems to have more talk around these issues than League?
		
Click to expand...

Don’t know why League would ever lag behind. Their hits are massive and they tend to go higher to attempt to wrap the ball and prevent a pass. 

Maybe it’s just because Union is a more mainstream sport and gets far more coverage? 

It’s a huge problem in all forms of rugby and I even think about it for my 14 year old lad.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 16, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			A question for those that follow both codes. Lots of talk about head injuries and early onset dementia etc but most of it seems to be with regards to Rugby Union rather than Rugby League. Admittedly I don't know much about Rugby League, I enjoy watching it but don't claim to be an expert, but is there a reason that Union seems to have more talk around these issues than League?
		
Click to expand...

Different hits, different styles of tackling. No rucks, mauls or scrums of note where hits to the head can occur. The tackles also tend to be more chest to chest, keeping the heads out of the way.

The above doesn't mean there aren't head hits in league but they are reduced compared to union.


----------



## Val (Oct 16, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Different hits, different styles of tackling. No rucks, mauls or scrums of note where hits to the head can occur. The tackles also tend to be more chest to chest, keeping the heads out of the way.

The above doesn't mean there aren't head hits in league but they are reduced compared to union.
		
Click to expand...

This is spot on for me particularly tackle zone where hits tend to be higher in an attempt to smother whereas union they tackler and tackled player often drop their head into tackles.


----------



## Captainron (Oct 17, 2022)

Wasps gone now. Massive club with a decent history. Real pity. 

Rugby here now has to reorganise itself to ensure that it’s sustainable.


----------



## Val (Oct 18, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Wasps gone now. Massive club with a decent history. Real pity.

Rugby here now has to reorganise itself to ensure that it’s sustainable.
		
Click to expand...

I firmly believe we are seeing the fallout from the Sarries scenario however they had an owner who backed them financially without fail. Even with a salary cap it's shocking clubs allowed themselves to get into this state. Feel for the fans and those now without jobs.

As much as I have plenty of criticism to aim at the SRU in their running of the game up here, I can be greatful they own our clubs and this type of thing is unlikely to happen.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 18, 2022)

Val said:



			I firmly believe we are seeing the fallout from the Sarries scenario however they had an owner who backed them financially without fail. Even with a salary cap it's shocking clubs allowed themselves to get into this state. Feel for the fans and those now without jobs.

As much as I have plenty of criticism to aim at the SRU in their running of the game up here, I can be greatful they own our clubs and this type of thing is unlikely to happen.
		
Click to expand...

Whilst it may prove inevitable, I do not know how I would feel if they massively trimmed the number of teams in England and put them under RFU control. You would be looking at a potential amalgamation of Tigers and Saints and I just cannot see either fan base getting behind the one that remains or a composite team of both. Can see a similar issue wiht Bristol/Bath/Exeter and Gloucester. Much talk at the moment about central contracts but I can only see that sending English rugby down the same path as county cricket. Part of the issue is that we have the top name players available too little and to centrally contract would make that worse. Also not sure that the RFU could afford 25-30 central contracts. Not sure what the answer is but somehting need to be done.


----------



## fundy (Oct 18, 2022)

Val said:



			I firmly believe we are seeing the fallout from the Sarries scenario however they had an owner who backed them financially without fail. Even with a salary cap it's shocking clubs allowed themselves to get into this state. Feel for the fans and those now without jobs.

As much as I have plenty of criticism to aim at the SRU in their running of the game up here, I can be greatful they own our clubs and this type of thing is unlikely to happen.
		
Click to expand...


I did wonder how long it would be until Sarries got the blame lol


----------



## GB72 (Oct 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			I did wonder how long it would be until Sarries got the blame lol
		
Click to expand...

Actually agree for once, Wasps have been on borrowed time for a number of years now and the high stakes, all or nothing gamble of the move to Coventry failed massively. Worcester were just shafted by the owners and I suspect that there is a lot more to come out of that when people look for where all fo the money has gone. 

All the clubs were responsible for player wage inflation. The irony is that the players deserve so much more in the pay packets for what they put themselves through but the clubs cannot even afford what they pay now. Clubs got invoived in a football stule player arms race but without the money to back it up. The crowds have also simply not grown and the TV money has shrunk. Sadly, always going to be the case when the media and the TV companies are only interested in football or rugby at international levels. 

Only solutions I can see at the moment is that clubs spending is set at a percentage of income (which would trash Sale and Newcastle) or club rugby rights are sold in conjunction with international rights to extort a higher premium and more coverage. Sadly, the final option is that the RFU centrally contract and clubs become semi pro feeder stations for England and head down the county cricket route.


----------



## Val (Oct 18, 2022)

fundy said:



			I did wonder how long it would be until Sarries got the blame lol
		
Click to expand...

Not blaming at all, I've no axe to grind with Sarries whatsoever as you know, just calling it as I see it. Sarries got their house in order, others haven't or can't.


----------



## Val (Oct 18, 2022)

Central funding is a minefield, Wales do it with star players to keep them on Wales for International time management as do the IRFU. Scotland internationals playing in Scotland are contracted 100% to the SRU,  yes they get less money than can be paid elsewhere but they get time managed and the risk of club failure is zero.

Clubs just need to cut their cloth accordingly and accept where they are in terms of ambition and finance.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 18, 2022)

Would never happen but I am actually coming round to the idea of moving the season to the Summer. That would mean less competition from football and I can see people watching rugby as a summer sport outside of the football season. It would also allow the southern hemisphere internationals and the 6 Nations to be playerd pre and post season so the clubs would have their international players available a lot more. Still not an ideal situation but I just simply cannot see how club rugby can grow when it is being playeed in the massive shadow of the football season.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Would never happen but I am actually coming round to the idea of moving the season to the Summer. That would mean less competition from football and I can see people watching rugby as a summer sport outside of the football season. It would also allow the southern hemisphere internationals and the 6 Nations to be playerd pre and post season so the clubs would have their international players available a lot more. Still not an ideal situation but I just simply cannot see how club rugby can grow when it is being playeed in the massive shadow of the football season.
		
Click to expand...

It seems to have worked for league. The harder ground is more of an issue for union than league, do you think that would be a major problem?


----------



## GB72 (Oct 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It seems to have worked for league. The harder ground is more of an issue for union than league, do you think that would be a major problem?
		
Click to expand...

Not with modern pitches and sprinkler systems, I am sure that it can be kept to the requisite standard.


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 18, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Wasps have been on borrowed time for a number of years now and the high stakes, all or nothing gamble of the move to Coventry failed massively.
		
Click to expand...

Quite a gamble to move Wasps from London to Coventry on the basis it was a big untapped area for rugby.
The West Midlands as a whole has relatively little interest for the game. 
I was also very surprised they opened an expensive looking elite performance centre at far away Henley in Arden.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Quite a gamble to move Wasps from London to Coventry on the basis it was a big untapped area for rugby.
The West Midlands as a whole has relatively little interest for the game.
I was also very surprised they opened an expensive looking elite performance centre at far away Henley in Arden.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure how it is a big, untapped area for the game. Coventry itself has a league one club and you have Northampon and Leicester on the doorstep, two of the biggest clubs in the country (OK moving into the Midlands there but an easy commute and one that is done by many West Midlands Tigers fans to Welford Road every week.). The problem was that the area was already tapped and success would have meant converting existing fans over other clubs to follow Wasps.  falling out with the football club only helped turn the locals against them. 

Henley is more traditional Wasps territory and if the gamble on the gorund had paid off in relatoin to other revenue streams that it had, i could have seen them moving back to their traditional territories.


----------



## stefanovic (Oct 18, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Not sure how it is a big, untapped area for the game. Coventry itself has a league one club and you have Northampon and Leicester on the doorstep, two of the biggest clubs in the country (OK moving into the Midlands there but an easy commute and one that is done by many West Midlands Tigers fans to Welford Road every week.). The problem was that the area was already tapped and success would have meant converting existing fans over other clubs to follow Wasps.  falling out with the football club only helped turn the locals against them.
		
Click to expand...

Don't get this. Who are Northampon? Who are West Midlands Tigers, other than in the Safari Park? Coventry RFC play at the Butts Park Arena.




			Henley is more traditional Wasps territory and if the gamble on the gorund had paid off in relatoin to other revenue streams that it had, i could have seen them moving back to their traditional territories.
		
Click to expand...

Not Henley on Thames, but Henley in Arden. I've just passed it and the administrators appear to be there.


----------



## GB72 (Oct 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Don't get this. Who are Northampon? Who are West Midlands Tigers, other than in the Safari Park? Coventry RFC play at the Butts Park Arena.


Not Henley on Thames, but Henley in Arden. I've just passed it and the administrators appear to be there.
		
Click to expand...

I am saying that Northampton and Tigers already have an established fan base in the West Midlands that have been supporters for decades. Coventry are a well establised league one club with decent support who made the decision at the start of the professional era that they could not attract fans from their establised tier one club support and so set their aspirations at a lower level. The idea of moving a top level club into an area where there was no historical support and no call for them to move in whilst also trying to bribe fans away from their existing clubs with free tickets was never going to work. 

When mention was made of a Heney training ground, I always wrongly assume it was on Thames. I understand that is bein kept open for the time being for players to train at.


----------



## Val (Oct 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It seems to have worked for league. The harder ground is more of an issue for union than league, do you think that would be a major problem?
		
Click to expand...

Those with artificial pitches would have serious issues in the summer


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2022)

Val said:



			Those with artificial pitches would have serious issues in the summer
		
Click to expand...

I'd forgotten some clubs, Newcastle amongst them ironically, have gone artificial. Ignore my comment, not an issue then.


----------



## Val (Oct 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd forgotten some clubs, Newcastle amongst them ironically, have gone artificial. Ignore my comment, not an issue then.
		
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite, it's more of an issue as these pitches rely on moisture to stop serious burns. I remember a game at Glasgow one May where it had been really hot and they couldn't keep the pitch wet and several players had significant burns after the game.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2022)

Val said:



			Quite the opposite, it's more of an issue as these pitches rely on moisture to stop serious burns. I remember a game at Glasgow one May where it had been really hot and they couldn't keep the pitch wet and several players had significant burns after the game.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I know those surfaces have come on so much I didn't think that was still an issue. If they had problems in Glasgow in May that doesn't bear well for warmer parts of the country.


----------



## Val (Oct 18, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ah, I see. I know those surfaces have come on so much I didn't think that was still an issue. If they had problems in Glasgow in May that doesn't bear well for warmer parts of the country.
		
Click to expand...

It was in excess of 30 degrees through the day to be fair, early heat wave that year but a concern none the less. I'm sure Sarries and others cope fine currently, whether they could in July is another matter


----------



## Vikingman (Oct 19, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Would never happen but I am actually coming round to the idea of moving the season to the Summer. That would mean less competition from football and I can see people watching rugby as a summer sport outside of the football season. It would also allow the southern hemisphere internationals and the 6 Nations to be playerd pre and post season so the clubs would have their international players available a lot more. Still not an ideal situation but I just simply cannot see how club rugby can grow when it is being playeed in the massive shadow of the football season.
		
Click to expand...

Playing in "summer" has both plus and minus points. I'm a league fan and playing in summer for us means starting in late January/early February and finishing in late September/early October.  During that time we might get a couple of football free months, less if its a World Cup or Euro's year. I don't follow Union but I'd suspect your season would be a similar length. On the plus side, once you get past April the pitches dry out and you should get a better quality game. On the negative side, the genuine summer months come with other distractions be it holidays/days out , golf, cricket, Wimbledon etc. Then, are you talking about just the pro game moving to summer or the whole game?


----------



## Robster59 (Nov 4, 2022)

I don't know if anybody is watching the wheelchair Rugby League being shown on the BBC, but I'm hooked.  A really tough game, but with high levels of skill with non-stop action.  Totally absorbing.  I'd definitely recommend you having a look if you haven't already done so.


----------



## GB72 (Nov 4, 2022)

Robster59 said:



			I don't know if anybody is watching the wheelchair Rugby League being shown on the BBC, but I'm hooked.  A really tough game, but with high levels of skill with non-stop action.  Totally absorbing.  I'd definitely recommend you having a look if you haven't already done so.
		
Click to expand...

I watched it and totally agree. 

Massive weekend of rugby viewing for me now. Got any wheelchair leage, the league quarter finals, womens world cup union semi finals, most of the home nations in action tomorrow then England on Sunday. Not sure I am leaving the sofa until Sunday night unless I move to watch some out in the garage bar.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Nov 19, 2022)

Caught the Scotland game from about 60 minutes on. Very feisty, plenty of points. A good day out for the crowd, particularly as Scotland are turning the screw now.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Nov 19, 2022)

How is that not a red card?  Samoa have had a raw deal from the officials today.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 19, 2022)

Scots show some real fighting spirit v the Pumas.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Nov 20, 2022)

Val said:



			It was in excess of 30 degrees through the day to be fair, early heat wave that year but a concern none the less. I'm sure Sarries and others cope fine currently, whether they could in July is another matter
		
Click to expand...

Late to this but when I played in hong kong and Japan in summer we were on a lot of artificial pitches. By the time we'd left 2 weeks later most of the lads were carrying such bad burns that they'd become infected in the humidity. A few of them ended up on antibiotics. It was a welcome relief to land in Australia and be playing on grass in winter again.

The way I'd describe it is that your skin stuck but the rest of you slid on so it was just removing that top layer of skin.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2022)

Really sad news that Doddie Weir passed away 😪

will always remember this


----------



## fundy (Nov 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really sad news that Doddie Weir passed away 😪

will always remember this







Click to expand...


Really sad news  RIP Doddie


----------



## Piece (Nov 26, 2022)

Sad news about Doddy.

On the pitch…🥺


----------



## paddyc (Nov 26, 2022)

Such sad news. Need to find a cure for this terrible disease.RIP


----------



## paddyc (Nov 26, 2022)

Can someone give Faf de Klerk a proper slap please


----------



## Dando (Nov 26, 2022)

paddyc said:



			Can someone give Faf de Klerk a proper slap please
		
Click to expand...

He’s even more unlikeable with the moustache


----------



## paddyc (Nov 26, 2022)

SA forwards are absolute  animals. Murdered the England pack at the set piece.


----------



## paddyc (Nov 26, 2022)

Even with a man down for the last 20 SA just in a different  league. Can't see past them for World  Cup next year.


----------



## JRS7 (Dec 3, 2022)

Eddie Jones for England.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 7, 2022)

The RFU really dropped a clanger there. No way they should have sacked Jones this close to the RWC.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2022)

Captainron said:



			The RFU really dropped a clanger there. No way they should have sacked Jones this close to the RWC.
		
Click to expand...

Mmmmm, I suspect you would have been very happy for Jones to stay in charge  😄. This gives England a chance now.


----------



## Captainron (Dec 7, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Mmmmm, I suspect you would have been very happy for Jones to stay in charge  😄. This gives England a chance now.
		
Click to expand...

Not if you don’t get a new coach now. The team that plays in the competition will also be Jones team but with a new coach. They can’t have Borthwick until June apparently? 

Yes, I hate the England rugby teams but I respect Eddie Jones as a coach. I listen to GBR pod every week and the players inside the set up think he’s brilliant and they trust his plan. 

I think England are worse off in the RWC now.


----------



## Newtonuti (Dec 7, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Not if you don’t get a new coach now. The team that plays in the competition will also be Jones team but with a new coach. They can’t have Borthwick until June apparently?

Yes, I hate the England rugby teams but I respect Eddie Jones as a coach. I listen to GBR pod every week and the players inside the set up think he’s brilliant and they trust his plan.

I think England are worse off in the RWC now.
		
Click to expand...

It's ok the players trusting his plan, but nobody else did. This years England performances have been way below par, WAY below par. Losing to Scotland, then being absolutely pummeled by Ireland in their own backyard, followed by a dismal autumn series which includes losing to Argentina, drawing with a New Zealand team who until 70 minutes in, were way on top then just seemed to switch off, and finally being ripped apart by the Boks. 

Jones at one point had a superb gameplan, that blatantly worked as it saw us leave the All Blacks shell shocked at the world cup, however teams have found us out. Stop our power game and we have absolutely nothing. The team are unable to think for themselves and change the plan by themselves on the field if it isn't working.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 7, 2022)

His plan wasn't working though and he didn't seem able to change. A new coach can re-invigorate the side, inspire players who are looking flat.


----------



## fundy (Dec 7, 2022)

Captainron said:



			The RFU really dropped a clanger there. No way they should have sacked Jones this close to the RWC.
		
Click to expand...


youre right, should have sacked him far far earlier


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Dec 7, 2022)

I dont think Jones was fully into it now. He seemed to change players and where they played too often, his love of Farrell wasn't good and overall the team seemed clueless all to often.
The change had to come, and I have loved Jones being there but it had to happen now.


----------



## Newtonuti (Dec 7, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I dont think Jones was fully into it now. He seemed to change players and where they played too often, his love of Farrell wasn't good and overall the team seemed clueless all to often.
The change had to come, and I have loved Jones being there but it had to happen now.
		
Click to expand...

Not only Farrell, but his obsession with using Billy Vunipola, when his game is entirely based on power and nothing else, is crazy. Not to mention his intent in play second rows at 6. One positive this year has been Steward, what a full back that bloke's developing into!


----------



## weewullie (Dec 7, 2022)




----------



## Lord Tyrion (Dec 22, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64069729

I like the look of this. It will be interesting to see it in practice.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 22, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64068528

Speechless - hope they find who sent it and is banned for life


----------



## HeftyHacker (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64068528

Speechless - hope they find who sent it and is banned for life
		
Click to expand...

Just seen this as well. What the hell goes through some peoples minds?! I hope they've played their last game and are exiled back to whatever rock they've crawled out from under.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Dec 22, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64068528

Speechless - hope they find who sent it and is banned for life
		
Click to expand...

The fact that they've suspended someone suggests that they know who sent it. There must be more to the story than someone thinking it's funny or acceptable to give a black player a banana, some kind of back story to it.


----------

