# New national lockdown from this Wed?



## Gowferdee (Oct 30, 2020)

Lets hope the golf courses can stay open but not looking good

Times: He is expected to hold a press conference on Monday to announce the new measures, under which everything could be closed except essential shops and “educational settings”, including nurseries, schools and universities. The new restrictions could be introduced on Wednesday and remain in place until December 1.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 30, 2020)

So they still think you are more likely to get the virus on a golf course than in a classroom!
something has to be done but not sure this is the answer.


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## Orikoru (Oct 30, 2020)

So they were banging on about this Tier system that no one understands, and after like two weeks that's in the bin and it's national lockdown? Surely not.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			So they were banging on about this Tier system that no one understands, and after like two weeks that's in the bin and it's national lockdown? Surely not.
		
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Just heard on a comedy show  ( the last leg) Ironically.
This is tier 4 total lockdown. With very few exceptions.


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## Orikoru (Oct 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just heard on a comedy show  ( the last leg) Ironically.
This is tier 4 total lockdown. With very few exceptions.
		
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What's the point of calling it tier 4 if it's for everyone? If everyone's in the same tier then there are no tiers.


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## Jigger (Oct 31, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			What's the point of calling it tier 4 if it's for everyone? If everyone's in the same tier then there are no tiers.
		
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Blame the press for constantly asking to see plans, which means the government have to spend time making this rubbish up when the reality is that every government is struggling to get to grips with it and are making decisions as they go whilst trying not to cripple their economies.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Bring it on

Leave classrooms opens..kids future top trumps the local pub and playing golf no matter how much I love my golf 

Rumours of it possible lasting until Xmas / into next year 

Whatever it takes 

Put the politics to one side (not just for the forum but for the country)

Support everyone who needs support financial, mental health or whatever needed.

This was always going to be extra hard this winter.

Best of Luck to everyone


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## Zig (Oct 31, 2020)

Jigger said:



			Blame the press for constantly asking to see plans, which means the government have to spend time making this rubbish up when the reality is that every government is struggling to get to grips with it and are making decisions as they go whilst trying not to cripple their economies.
		
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Not sure it's the press; they're being deliberately briefed by ministers to float the ideas in the first place. It's not coincidence that Gove, Johnson for example have extremely strong links with the Barclays, Murdoch, and paid a lot to write for their publications.

There are some great examples of countries who have managed covid really well, and hence their economies are operating pretty much as normal: Tiawan, Korea, Canada and NZ - the latter probably the best highlighted in the media.

Just gutted that at the start of the year people (our leaders/any colours) couldn't out their political differences to one side and get together to act in the national interest - we're all in it together, for better or worse!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Bring it on

Leave classrooms opens..kids future top trumps the local pub and playing golf no matter how much I love my golf
		
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The only reason for keeping schools open is to provide free child minding. Teachers and their families are being put at unnecessary risk.


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## robinthehood (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			The only reason for keeping schools open is to provide free child minding. Teachers and their families are being put at unnecessary risk.
		
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 My child goes to school for education... not to provide me with childcare. I'll accept any risk that it bring.
As for golf,  I best get out today and tomorrow before they close then.🤣


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 31, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Eh? My child goes to school for education... not to provide me with childcare.
		
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During the first lockdown my other half was running all her classes via zoom. Now she has to go into an environment where kids ignore social distance rules and everyone is put at risk so that parents are able to go to work.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			The only reason for keeping schools open is to provide free child minding. Teachers and their families are being put at unnecessary risk.
		
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Secondary maybe but primary no. It provides important social lessons and is one of the most important parts

It's why 12 and under they will look to learn from home and keep the under 12s in school

The side impact is childcare yes but it's not the main reason.


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## MikeB (Oct 31, 2020)

The magic money tree will love it 🙄


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Secondary maybe but primary no. It provides important social lessons and is one of the most important parts

It's why 12 and under they will look to learn from home and keep the under 12s in school

The side impact is childcare yes but it's not the main reason.
		
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So which is more important, young kids seeing their friends or the lives of teachers and their families?


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			The only reason for keeping schools open is to provide free child minding. Teachers and their families are being put at unnecessary risk.
		
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I think education has a larger symbolic role. If the situation is not safe enough for schools and unis to stay open and operating, after a fashion, it can't be safe for shops, bars, restaurants and many workplaces either. The education sector is a huge barometer for much of the rest of society, hence the 'keep it open at almost all costs' policy. And the kids being out of school knackers any return to work plans.


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## KenL (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			During the first lockdown my other half was running all her classes via zoom. Now she has to go into an environment where kids ignore social distance rules and everyone is put at risk so that parents are able to go to work.
		
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How many of those pupils were fully engaging with their learning?  From my experience engagement was variable for a number of reasons.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 31, 2020)

KenL said:



			How many of those pupils were fully engaging with their learning?  From my experience engagement was variable for a number of reasons.
		
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Agreed, quite varied. But that was the fault of disinterested parents not teachers.


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## robinthehood (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Agreed, quite varied. But that was the fault of disinterested parents not teachers.
		
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🤣😂 I try, but teaching multiple subjects to GCSE standard is tough going,  as well as doing my own job.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Agreed, quite varied. But that was the fault of disinterested parents not teachers.
		
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Quite a generalisation that statement.


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

My eldest is at Secondary School, and the online learning he received, mostly via Google Classroom rather than video, was actually pretty good and we were reasonably impressed. The school followed up with personal messages and emails to us, and we are pretty happy he didn't miss out too much. 

They younger son, then in primary year 5, now in 6, had a much more laissez faire approach from his school and it was rather poor.


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## KenL (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Agreed, quite varied. But that was the fault of disinterested parents not teachers.
		
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To a certain extent yes but other social factors contribute.  Noisy house, lack of technology.
For me, this is why schools need to stay open.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Agreed, quite varied. But that was the fault of disinterested parents not teachers.
		
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Disinterested? Wow what a sweeping statement. What about parents who are already working from home and had to get used to that at the same time

Massive upheavals for everyone

And back to your quoted post it's not just seeing their friends it teaches them social skills and important basic skills that start them in life 

If not you have a generation who won't be able to social interact / possibly read.

Yes childcare aswell like Ethan says. If they don't go to school how can people go to work when needed?

My wife, sister, mother, mother in law all are either teachers or in education setting. All see schools being back as very important to the overall country.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2020)

Missis T took on the role of headmistress during the first lockdown. She did it very well and the kids enjoyed it. But they would of sooner spent time playing on there games all day. There kids who wouldn’t. The school did there online learning through teams and it was excellent. 
When the kids returned to school both grandkids teachers said they both were amongst the highest in the class to get all there work done. Some kids hardly did any. I asked young Bradleys teacher Why? She said she had her thoughts but would sooner keep them to herself. 
Bottom line, it’s gonna be tough again, some families are gonna have bigger problems than learning ABC. And Xmas is gonna be crap for some. But for me, a national lockdown is both necessary and the correct thing to do.


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## Reemul (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Disinterested? Wow what a sweeping statement. What about parents who are already working from home and had to get used to that at the same time

Massive upheavals for everyone

And back to your quoted post it's not just seeing their friends it teaches them social skills and important basic skills that start them in life

If not you have a generation who won't be able to social interact / possibly read.

Yes childcare aswell like Ethan says. If they don't go to school how can people go to work when needed?

My wife, sister, mother, mother in law all are either teachers or in education setting. All see schools being back as very important to the overall country.
		
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Yeah my wife is a teacher in a primary school, she also is at risk due to cavatating pneumonia issues. My youngest is 10. They need to go to school, he really struggled and still has even going back. My wife agrees school is so important, while my eldest can manage from home, he will be 14 in a months time, the younger cannot get the lost time and development back and he needs it now.

We cannot say close schools because teachers are at risk withotu looking at every other job and acknowledging the same for them.


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## Reemul (Oct 31, 2020)

I don't agree with the we need Xmas, we can have a Xmas day any day. We can move it to another day and celebrate with presents and family and food. It's just a day and trying to specically target it is not the solution.

We need some sort of agressive lockdown with support for those that need it but we also need more personal responsibility from more people not just some or plenty of them and we need a clear concise set of rules we can all follow otherwise this time next year we will still be doing this.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I don't agree with the we need Xmas, we can have a Xmas day any day. We can move it to another day and celebrate with presents and family and food. It's just a day and trying to specically target it is not the solution.

We need some sort of agressive lockdown with support for those that need it but we also need more personal responsibility from more people not just some or plenty of them and we need a clear concise set of rules we can all follow otherwise this time next year we will still be doing this.
		
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Am not to sure that Boris would try to protect Xmas Itself, but try to protect the economy that Xmas generates. The “ forecasts” re Covid are horrendous.


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## IanM (Oct 31, 2020)

...all the "experts" were talking about the inevitable "second wave" from day one... cos that what happens... so it it is, why are the same folk now expressing shock?

And this thread will go the way of others and remind us why the political threads wee stopped...


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Disinterested? Wow what a sweeping statement. What about parents who are already working from home and had to get used to that at the same time

Massive upheavals for everyone

.
		
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Yeah I get that. My girlfriend was constantly chasing up both kids and parents to get them to attend the zoom classes. Some of the responses and excuses were pretty poor TBH, basically they saw it as an extended holiday. The majority were pretty good and worked well.
But the bottom line is schools provide a child minding service so that parents can go to work. 

And you didn't answer my question, which is more important children seeing their friends or the health of teachers, many who are older and at higher risk?


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## robinthehood (Oct 31, 2020)

IanM said:



			...all the "experts" were talking about the inevitable "second wave" from day one... cos that what happens... so it it is, why are the same folk now expressing shock?

And this thread will go the way of others and remind us why the political threads wee stopped... 

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Correct  because it's not politics that were the problem.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Yeah I get that. My girlfriend was constantly chasing up both kids and parents to get them to attend the zoom classes. Some of the responses and excuses were pretty poor TBH, basically they saw it as an extended holiday. The majority were pretty good and worked well.
But the bottom line is schools provide a child minding service so that parents can go to work.

And you didn't answer my question, which is more important children seeing their friends or the health of teachers, many who are older and at higher risk?
		
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Very weighted question as it's not childcare or health at all 

But schools open. 

If schools close it costs the country more completely .

And you have completely ignored half my post as it doesn't suit your agenda.

As I said. I have a very clear understanding of education from primary to secondary level and it's a very key part of keeping the country moving.


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

Timeout gents

Let’s take a breather


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## IanM (Oct 31, 2020)

The National Lockdown is at the request of the WHS Committee who need another 8 years to sort out the data feeds, explanations of why scoring 2 points on a hole isn't a net par and why "insert course name" is the hardest in the county and only has a slope of ..... etc! 

I see similar patterns replicating all over the place... viruses have no knowledge of politics or borders.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

IanM said:



			The National Lockdown is at the request of the WHS Committee who need another 8 years to sort out the data feeds, explanations of why scoring 2 points on a hole isn't a net par and why "insert course name" is the hardest in the county and only has a slope of ..... etc!

I see similar patterns replicating all over the place... viruses have no knowledge of politics or borders.
		
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Still can't log onto mine, club even confirmed they gave my details over to golf England 

Can see my indicated index but can't set up account


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## IanM (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Still can't log onto mine, club even confirmed they gave my details over to golf England

Can see my indicated index but can't set up account
		
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Wrong thread!   Surely you think doctors were/were not murdering people or that Boris has gone too early/late/soft/hard/only cares about economy/doesn't care about the economy/it's the Russians wot dun it guv!!


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## robinthehood (Oct 31, 2020)

IanM said:



			Wrong thread!   Surely you think doctors were/were not murdering people or that Boris has gone too early/late/soft/hard/only cares about economy/doesn't care about the economy/it's the Russians wot dun it guv!!
		
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And responsible for storm aiden spoiling my golf too


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

IanM said:



			Wrong thread!   Surely you think doctors were/were not murdering people or that Boris has gone too early/late/soft/hard/only cares about economy/doesn't care about the economy/it's the Russians wot dun it guv!!
		
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Let's keep politics out of this and agree golf England are to blame 

I think they released covid because they couldn't deal with whs


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## BiMGuy (Oct 31, 2020)

My personal view is that even the current restrictions are doing more harm overall than good in relation to the virus. 

The virus is here to stay and (sadly) only seems to be really bad for specific demographics. So the rest of us should be allowed to get on with life whilst maintaining sensible practices and protecting the most vulnerable. 

The only reason that lockdowns are being considered is that the Government can't be seen to be doing nothing. The press and certain groups would absolutely hammer them otherwise. 

I can't think of anyone I know that wants to go back into lockdown. Most just want to get back on with life and will accept the tiny risk.


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## petema99 (Oct 31, 2020)

Zig said:



			Not sure it's the press; they're being deliberately briefed by ministers to float the ideas in the first place. It's not coincidence that Gove, Johnson for example have extremely strong links with the Barclays, Murdoch, and paid a lot to write for their publications.

There are some great examples of countries who have managed covid really well, and hence their economies are operating pretty much as normal: Tiawan, Korea, Canada and NZ - the latter probably the best highlighted in the media.

Just gutted that at the start of the year people (our leaders/any colours) couldn't out their political differences to one side and get together to act in the national interest - we're all in it together, for better or worse!
		
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Lol none of those countries are really comparable.... taking NZ as an obvious example - it does seem easier to control when you have a population half the size of London in a country with more land area than the UK. Not to mention the ability to virtually restrict 100% of travel to the country and still have an economy "operating pretty much as normal", which obviously we cannot...


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## Imurg (Oct 31, 2020)

Who needs a lockdown with the weather we've got outside...


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## robinthehood (Oct 31, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Who needs a lockdown with the weather we've got outside...

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awful, i was hoping to get out for 9 later, but now just hoping to get out at least once in this weekend!


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Who needs a lockdown with the weather we've got outside...

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Hope it is like this for 3 months to stop the bloody idiots going out 🤔👍


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Who needs a lockdown with the weather we've got outside...

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Hope it is like this for 3 months to stop the bloody idiots going out 🤔👍


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2020)

petema99 said:



			To be fair - just a quick google search and you can see there are a myriad of articles on whether ventilators are generally helpful or not, including quite a number of doctors who are leading the questioning...

Also, people have always died unnecessarily in hospitals, especially when little is known about the most effective treatment so hardly see how that is getting towards libel as you seem to suggest...

But of course feel free to continue bashing the doctor in question (including suggesting that they are not fit to practice) simply because they may have a different professional viewpoint to you. Nothing like mainatining the arrogant doctor stereotype (Y)
		
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This is spot on.
My doctors have shut up shop in the first wave and havnt opened since.
Can’t even get a phone call through to the surgery.
But the teachers are working so that’s ok.


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## IanM (Oct 31, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Who needs a lockdown with the weather we've got outside...

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On t'other side o Offa's Dyke, we're all ready in one.  We have 45 mph winds and heavy today too... I can't imagine the courses would be open anyway, even if you were daft enough to go out.

Not sure how good it is holding up current survival rates in support of "no restrictions"  - those figures are following having the restrictions.  But heck, I am qualified to comment on the process failing of WHS Implementation, not virology!


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Hope it is like this for 3 months to stop the bloody idiots going out 🤔👍
		
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I think the weather forecasters are trying to keep us indoors.
Storm Aiden is just a bit breezy here but no mega rain yet.


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## Reemul (Oct 31, 2020)

Doodle said:



			95.5% survival rate.
Average age of deaths 82
Most with underlying health issues
Only 370 deaths with no underlying health issues.

The PCR test is hugely overstating the infection rate.
The flu deaths are negligible compared to the previous 10 years because they are being reported as Covid.

Contrary to the hysterical media reports, hospital admissions are no worse than the same period in any previous year.

The virus is being over hyped, a lockdown will do more damage to people's health than the virus ever will.
Businesses will fail.
Mental health will suffer.
Treatable illnesses will go untreated resulting in excess death.

A lockdown is not needed & not wanted, it will not work & it will cause complete mayhem.
		
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One of the big issues with this is the underlying health issues, if we ignore underlying health issues the points are valid the problem is we have millions of people who are not elderly with them and if we cannot control the outbreak they will be next to die after the elderly

For example 2 years a go my wife had Cavatating pneumonia, spent 10 days in intensive care and barely survived, 2 years on she has 3 large cavities in her lung which are not clearing up, Drs say next up is a biopsy which was been put off due to Covid and we are no nearer her getting one. She is 44 and very healthy (You would not know she could be unwell) until she get some sort of cough based illness then her lung cannot cope. She has never been ill in her life before this. There is a good chance Covid could kill her. She is a Senco, head of year, head of maths and primary school teacher. The senco part is really big at the moment as that's the special needs specialist support role and right now these kids need this massively.

Everything you posted does nothing for my wife but maybe kill her, no suggestions, no support no nothing, it's like as you do not fall in to those categories you really don't care and dismiss it as if it's a joke or fake.

You see my wife is not ready for the grave at all, in fact she is about to become an assistant head, has completed her second yer of a masters degree for her roles and there are a massive amount of people like her that need more than stay at home and hide. we need proper government policy and we need people to do as they should and to look after each other not to say i don't care about anything but my Xmas lunch, holiday at Durdle Door or getting drunk in the pub for a few months.

As a race many have us have shown how shallow, weak and pathetic we can be and the me me me society we have become.

We need a policy and process to protect all of those at risk while allowing those who ar enot to continue as close to normal as possible but acknowledging it won't be how it was for a along while now.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2020)

Whats changed in 3weeks, when Starmer was accused of party politics when he asked for this "circuit breaker" based on SAGE advice/minutes?


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Whats changed in 3weeks, when Starmer was accused of party politics when he asked for this "circuit breaker" based on SAGE advice/minutes?
		
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That’s how politics work use someone else’s idea three weeks on and say it’s your own.
Might get told off for this though Stu.


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## Jigger (Oct 31, 2020)

Zig said:



			Not sure it's the press; they're being deliberately briefed by ministers to float the ideas in the first place. It's not coincidence that Gove, Johnson for example have extremely strong links with the Barclays, Murdoch, and paid a lot to write for their publications.

There are some great examples of countries who have managed covid really well, and hence their economies are operating pretty much as normal: Tiawan, Korea, Canada and NZ - the latter probably the best highlighted in the media.

Just gutted that at the start of the year people (our leaders/any colours) couldn't out their political differences to one side and get together to act in the national interest - we're all in it together, for better or worse!
		
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There’s also other countries which were models for how to get things right that are now really struggling. There’s no right answer here and it’s actually good different countries have taken different approaches as nobody know which path is the correct course of action.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			That’s how politics work use someone else’s idea three weeks on and say it’s your own.
Might get told off for this though Stu.
		
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I call it the follow Scotland policy


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## MendieGK (Oct 31, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Agreed, quite varied. But that was the fault of disinterested parents not teachers.
		
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From a parents point of view, my 6 year old needs school. The teachers said the difference between him and those that went back in July for a few months and those that didn’t sent their kids back is astronical


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I don't agree with the we need Xmas, we can have a Xmas day any day. We can move it to another day and celebrate with presents and family and food. It's just a day and trying to specically target it is not the solution.
		
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Errr...it most certainly ISN‘T just any day for very many people and it can’t be moved thankyou. What many others might choose to do on the 25th December is up to them ... and yes they can do what they wish to do on any day of their choosing - but sorry - we can’t move Christmas Day 🎄🥰


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## BiMGuy (Oct 31, 2020)

Reemul said:



			One of the big issues with this is the underlying health issues, if we ignore underlying health issues the points are valid the problem is we have millions of people who are not elderly with them and if we cannot control the outbreak they will be next to die after the elderly

For example 2 years a go my wife had Cavatating pneumonia, spent 10 days in intensive care and barely survived, 2 years on she has 3 large cavities in her lung which are not clearing up, Drs say next up is a biopsy which was been put off due to Covid and we are no nearer her getting one. She is 44 and very healthy (You would not know she could be unwell) until she get some sort of cough based illness then her lung cannot cope. She has never been ill in her life before this. There is a good chance Covid could kill her. She is a Senco, head of year, head of maths and primary school teacher. The senco part is really big at the moment as that's the special needs specialist support role and right now these kids need this massively.

Everything you posted does nothing for my wife but maybe kill her, no suggestions, no support no nothing, it's like as you do not fall in to those categories you really don't care and dismiss it as if it's a joke or fake.

You see my wife is not ready for the grave at all, in fact she is about to become an assistant head, has completed her second yer of a masters degree for her roles and there are a massive amount of people like her that need more than stay at home and hide. we need proper government policy and we need people to do as they should and to look after each other not to say i don't care about anything but my Xmas lunch, holiday at Durdle Door or getting drunk in the pub for a few months.

As a race many have us have shown how shallow, weak and pathetic we can be and the me me me society we have become.

We need a policy and process to protect all of those at risk while allowing those who ar enot to continue as close to normal as possible but acknowledging it won't be how it was for a along while now.
		
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Your wife should be protected as best she can be. But to lock the rest of society away in doing so, is as bad as not protecting the vulnerable. 

The fall out of this from an economic and mental health point will take a generation to put right.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Errr...it most certainly ISN‘T just any day for very many people and it can’t be moved thankyou. What many others might choose to do on the 25th December is up to them ... and yes they can do what they wish to do on any day of their choosing - but sorry - we can’t move Christmas Day 🎄🥰
		
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Me if I was prime minister I would change Xmas day to when the January sales start on Dec 26th 🤔🥴


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Me if I was prime minister I would change Xmas day to when the January sales start on Dec 26th 🤔🥴
		
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Don’t we call that Boxing Day...👍


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

For goodness sake stop the petty bickering
Any more and I’ll start issuing infractions 

Thread locked for a bit and moved to OOB as it’s no longer anything to do with golf


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

Thread reopened

If the bickering restarts im going to come down on the perps hard and heavy

Now play nice please


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Thread reopened

If the bickering restarts im going to come down on the perps hard and heavy

Now play nice please
		
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Good job you have nowt better to do than look after adults. 😖


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## chrisd (Oct 31, 2020)

I'm beginning to wonder whether the kids should stay at home and the parents go to school cos I cant believe how many I see on TV saying they dont understand the rules  - numpties!


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## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2020)

I was going out next Thursday for the 2nd time since March. It's not looking likely now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

A full lockdown for the country will have huge consequences- it’s also not going to make that much more difference to the current tier system. 

Localised restrictions appear to be a better way to go 

Going into full lockdown is going to cause both financial and mental issues for the country. We just can’t afford it


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## drdel (Oct 31, 2020)

Press conference by PM at 5pm?


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## spongebob59 (Oct 31, 2020)

Will.Be interesting to see what he says at 5, I've got my preop on Weds and op scheduled for next Sat, so keen for it not to get cancelled. Been waiting since March and although not essential it would be nice to.draw a line under this.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2020)

drdel said:



			Press conference by PM at 5pm?
		
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It’s on in mine at 7.15 when the match finishes.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A full lockdown for the country will have huge consequences- it’s also not going to make that much more difference to the current tier system.

Localised restrictions appear to be a better way to go

Going into full lockdown is going to cause both financial and mental issues for the country. We just can’t afford it
		
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Its the implications it'll have for future generations that worries me. Our children will be paying for this for years and years.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Errr...it most certainly ISN‘T just any day for very many people and it can’t be moved thankyou. What many others might choose to do on the 25th December is up to them ... and yes they can do what they wish to do on any day of their choosing - but sorry - we can’t move Christmas Day 🎄🥰
		
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With respect to you as a Christian what about Ede that our Muslim population had to miss because of lockdown this year?

Christmas can't be moved as a day but surely the celebrations can be put on hold if Ness.

The big guy would understand 


spongebob59 said:



			Will.Be interesting to see what he says at 5, I've got my preop on Weds and op scheduled for next Sat, so keen for it not to get cancelled. Been waiting since March and although not essential it would be nice to.draw a line under this.
		
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I will watch and see what he says

I can see a watered down type where schools are open and like planned ops can carry on but non essential shops closed ..

I got a private procedure this month will be interested to see if goes ahead


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## fundy (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			With respect to you as a Christian what about Ede that our Muslim population had to miss because of lockdown this year?

Christmas can't be moved as a day but surely the celebrations can be put on hold if Ness.

The big guy would understand


I will watch and see what he says

I can see a watered down type where schools are open and like planned ops can carry on but non essential shops closed ..

I got a private procedure this month will be interested to see if goes ahead
		
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the press have already released the details if you dont want to wait, utterly ridiculous the way info is constantly given to the journo de jour


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## spongebob59 (Oct 31, 2020)

Tier 4.


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

spongebob59 said:



			Will.Be interesting to see what he says at 5, I've got my preop on Weds and op scheduled for next Sat, so keen for it not to get cancelled. Been waiting since March and although not essential it would be nice to.draw a line under this.
		
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Assuming your local hospital is currently coping OK, then you should be fine. This lockdown is about what might happen in a few weeks if nothing is done. Keeping other NHS activity going is a priority.


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## upsidedown (Oct 31, 2020)

spongebob59 said:



			Will.Be interesting to see what he says at 5, I've got my preop on Weds and op scheduled for next Sat, so keen for it not to get cancelled. Been waiting since March and although not essential it would be nice to.draw a line under this.
		
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Glad I got mine done 3.5 weeks ago from a March cancellation too, hope you get it done


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Its the implications it'll have for future generations that worries me. Our children will be paying for this for years and years.
		
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They’ll cope and I’d rather they had debt than no parents or grandparents, the whole debt thing is a red herring anyway, the UK didn’t finish paying our debt to the USA for WW2 until 2006.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			They’ll cope and I’d rather they had debt than no parents or grandparents, the whole debt thing is a red herring anyway, the UK didn’t finish paying our debt to the USA for WW2 until 2006.
		
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Something that always bugs me

Who cares if as a country we are in debt 

The obsession with breaking even and balancing the book is stupid.

It costs money to run a country and shock horror emergancies happen


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			They’ll cope and I’d rather they had debt than no parents or grandparents, the whole debt thing is a red herring anyway, the UK didn’t finish paying our debt to the USA for WW2 until 2006.
		
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Debt is a red herring? 

Debt is very very real and the pension age is rising alarmingly. Our kids may not get get retire. To dismiss it as not being a real fact and feature of our children's future is foolish. (imo)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Debt is a red herring?

Debt is very very real and the pension age is rising alarmingly. Our kids may not get get retire. To dismiss it as not being a real fact and feature of our children's future is foolish. (imo)
		
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I very much doubt there is a single child in the UK at this very moment sat thinking “I wish they’d let this virus kill thousands more so I can retire when I’m 67 and not 68”

The red herring is people using the kids as an excuse for the worry over future debt, we have debt now and we’ll always have debt.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I very much doubt there is a single child in the UK at this very moment sat thinking “I wish they’d let this virus kill thousands more so I can retire when I’m 67 and not 68”

The red herring is people using the kids as an excuse for the worry over future debt, we have debt now and we’ll always have debt.
		
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Who mentioned let people die?

The fact is the build up of debt and the austerity on the public and economy will be HUGE. 

That impacts on the future generations. Fact.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1322562692771696640
How does this all get suggested before any press conference 

It’s basically going to kill the pubs and restaurants


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Who mentioned let people die?

The fact is the build up of debt and the austerity on the public and economy will be HUGE.

That impacts on the future generations. Fact.
		
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You’re guessing! None of know the future! What if we have another World War in 30 years? What if a Terrorist group gets hold of a nuclear weapon etc etc, We need to look after the living today and if that means having a lockdown that increases future debt and saves lives now, then I’m all for it!


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

So basically, we as a government don’t want to lose votes up north, so we will put everyone in the same boat and then let them out at different points, because that will at least look like everyone was treated fairly. 

The biggest spread is coming from kids, but yeah. Let’s let em keep mixing. Ridiculous.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re guessing! None of know the future! What if we have another World War in 30 years? What if a Terrorist group gets hold of a nuclear weapon etc etc, We need to look after the living today and if that means having a lockdown that increases future debt and saves lives now, then I’m all for it!
		
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Yeah - I'm guessing this is costing us nothing. 

😂


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

Guys , can we avoid political content , however general


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’re guessing! None of know the future! What if we have another World War in 30 years? What if a Terrorist group gets hold of a nuclear weapon etc etc, We need to look after the living today and if that means having a lockdown that increases future debt and saves lives now, then I’m all for it!
		
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If we discover a covid cure as Britain prides itself on medical research .. we then market it at a massive profit and wipe out our debt anyways due to world wide demand 😂


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			So basically, we as a government don’t want to lose votes up north, so we will put everyone in the same boat and then let them out at different points, because that will at least look like everyone was treated fairly.

The biggest spread is coming from kids, but yeah. Let’s let em keep mixing. Ridiculous.
		
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What age do you class kids as? As its not the biggest spreader up here.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Yeah - I'm guessing this is costing us nothing.

😂
		
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It’s costing us a fortune and I’d happily go along with it costing more if it means we can save just 1 life, you‘re saying let thousands die to avoid a penny on income tax in 25yrs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			So basically, we as a government don’t want to lose votes up north, so we will put everyone in the same boat and then let them out at different points, because that will at least look like everyone was treated fairly.

The biggest spread is coming from kids, but yeah. Let’s let em keep mixing. Ridiculous.
		
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Already lost the North 

The reaction to this is going to be a lot different to the first lockdown - it’s going to cause of lot anger and pain for people.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			What age do you class kids as? As its not the biggest spreader up here.
		
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I’m talking schools. 
Their the largest groups still congregating in uncontrolled groups. 

Whilst closing shops and pubs will make a difference, imo it won’t halt it like the last lockdown where schools were closed too.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Looking forward to hearing how it has come to this and how what will be proposed will achieve its objective and how we’ll know.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s costing us a fortune and I’d happily go along with it costing more if it means we can save just 1 life, you‘re saying let thousands die to avoid a penny on income tax in 25yrs.

Click to expand...

But when the numbers appeared under control there was a lot of talk about the lives lost due to prioritising covid. For example through suicide or cancers not diagnosed etc. Unlike the concept of “forget debt now and deal with it later”, sorting the immediate deaths now, doesn’t mean we can necessarily prevent or sort the lost lives.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I’m talking schools.
Their the largest groups still congregating in uncontrolled groups.

Whilst closing shops and pubs will make a difference, imo it won’t halt it like the last lockdown where schools were closed too.
		
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The last lockdown halted it because it was warmer weather.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			The last lockdown halted it because it was warmer weather.
		
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So this lockdown is futile as it’s going to be cold?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			So this lockdown is futile as it’s going to be cold?
		
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Its to increase the financial burden on future generations, nothing to do with saving lives, protecting the NHS or losing control of the virus.

Billy, aged 8, will be livid if it means he can’t collect his state pension until he’s 80.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			So this lockdown is futile as it’s going to be cold?
		
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No it will still have an affect. All lockdowns kick the can down the road further and further 

The right thing to do until a vaccine presents itself 

We should have circuit broke at half term 2 weeks. Then Xmas , Feb half term, Easter and may half term 

A formulated plan and then the summer less so as warmer weather and by then hopefully vaccine 

Delayed too much unfortunately and here we are. A month lockdown by looks .

Tough times ahead


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			But when the numbers appeared under control there was a lot of talk about the lives lost due to prioritising covid. For example through suicide or cancers not diagnosed etc. Unlike the concept of “forget debt now and deal with it later”, sorting the immediate deaths now, doesn’t mean we can necessarily prevent or sort the lost lives.
		
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But we have to do something, doing nothing because it’ll take longer to sort out is not an option.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s costing us a fortune and I’d happily go along with it costing more if it means we can save just 1 life, you‘re saying let thousands die to avoid a penny on income tax in 25yrs.

Click to expand...

Go back and quote me where I've ever said let anyone die??? I challenge you to find that quote. If not get back in your box.


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## bobmac (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Debt is very very real and *the pension age is rising alarmingly*.
		
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You may have to explain that to me please


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			No it will still have an affect. All lockdowns kick the can down the road further and further

The right thing to do until a vaccine presents itself

We should have circuit broke at half term 2 weeks. Then Xmas , Feb half term, Easter and may half term

A formulated plan and then the summer less so as warmer weather and by then hopefully vaccine

Delayed too much unfortunately and here we are. A month lockdown by looks .

Tough times ahead
		
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Or just let it run free and what happens happens.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Go back and quote me where I've ever said let anyone die??? I challenge you to find that quote. If not get back in your box.
		
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You are answers are all about future generations, nothing about helping those in the here and now and if we don’t take more action, more will die, fact, therefore you implyed that worrying about the future debt burden is more important than current lives.
Box well and truly smashed open.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

bobmac said:



			You may have to explain that to me please
		
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When you and I started working, pension age was 65.  Now it is up to 67 or 68 because we can't afford 65, and this is going to make 67 or 68 economically unviable is what I think he means.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Or just let it run free and what happens happens.
		
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No thanks , it may have a Low death rate but if more people have it that low death rate is more people as more people have it.

Also long term covid 

A friend at work has it. It's horrible. He's 28 ex army fit as a fiddle .. well he was .. he looks so weak now


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## Tashyboy (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			With respect to you as a Christian *what about Ede that our Muslim population had to miss because of lockdown this year?*

Christmas can't be moved as a day but surely the celebrations can be put on hold if Ness.

The big guy would understand


I will watch and see what he says

I can see a watered down type where schools are open and like planned ops can carry on but non essential shops closed ..

I got a private procedure this month will be interested to see if goes ahead
		
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Trust me, Ave an auntie who lives in Oldham, Ede was not missed. It was quoted as a reason that Covid increased in certain northern towns.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			When you and I started working, pension age was 65.  Now it is up to 67 or 68 because we can't afford 65, and this is going to make 67 or 68 economically unviable is what I think he means.
		
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That is not alarmingly though or just down to national debt, there were many factors used when the rules to state pension age was changed.
They just don’t meet Jacko’s hissy fit.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			No it will still have an affect. All lockdowns kick the can down the road further and further 

The right thing to do until a vaccine presents itself 

We should have circuit broke at half term 2 weeks. Then Xmas , Feb half term, Easter and may half term 

A formulated plan and then the summer less so as warmer weather and by then hopefully vaccine 

Delayed too much unfortunately and here we are. A month lockdown by looks .

Tough times ahead
		
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Go back you your simplistic response. You said the weather halted it. 

I accept it plays a part, but if people are locked inside then the weather is irrelevant as you can’t pass it if you aren’t near new people. If it still spreads during this lockdown and only schools are open, then I’d take a punt they play a part.....


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Or just let it run free and what happens happens.
		
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How far has it already run?  With so many asymptomatic and no antibody testing programme that I'm aware of, how far has this actually gone?


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			No thanks , it may have a Low death rate but if more people have it that low death rate is more people as more people have it.
		
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Deaths are super low. Reaction to them is crazy out of proportion. Around 47000 UK deaths attributed to COVID in what is close to a year is nothing. Stopping the world for that is nuts.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You are answers are all about future generations, nothing about helping those in the here and now and if we don’t take more action, more will die, fact, therefore you implyed that worrying about the future debt burden is more important than current lives.
Box well and truly smashed open.

Click to expand...

Again quote where I have said let people die. Usual heid first think second post from yourself. I await the quote.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Dhdh



Papas1982 said:



			Go back you your simplistic response. You said the weather halted it. 

I accept it plays a part, but if people are locked inside then the weather is irrelevant as you can’t pass it if you aren’t near new people. If it still spreads during this lockdown and only schools are open, then I’d take a punt they play a part.....
		
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A necessary risk


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			How far has it already run?  With so many asymptomatic and no antibody testing programme that I'm aware of, how far has this actually gone?
		
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It’s like trying to plait fog Rich. It can’t be done.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



*That is not alarmingly though or just down to national debt, there were many factors used when the rules to state pension age was changed.*
They just don’t meet Jacko’s hissy fit.
		
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Not arguing that one way or the other mate, merely trying to explain to Bobmac what I think was meant about pension age.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Deaths are super low. Reaction to them is crazy out of proportion. Around 47000 UK deaths attributed to COVID in what is close to a year is nothing. Stopping the world for that is nuts.
		
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How many people have had it? Now let it run with no restrictions.. more people have it more people die 

47k becomes 147k and so on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Again quote where I have said let people die. Usual heid first think second post from yourself. I await the quote.
		
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Keep digging, you know what you are implying.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not arguing that one way or the other mate, merely trying to explain to Bobmac what I think was meant about pension age. 

Click to expand...

Agree mate, just him using alarmist language gets people confused.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



*Deaths are super low*. Reaction to them is crazy out of proportion. Around 47000 UK deaths attributed to COVID in what is close to a year is nothing. Stopping the world for that is nuts.
		
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Compared to what?


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How many people have had it? Now let it run with no restrictions.. more people have it more people die

47k becomes 147k and so on.
		
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Millions have had it and not known. Can’t test them all.

Any lockdown is pointless unless every single family group/person can stay isolated from the world until the vaccine is here.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			It’s like trying to plait fog Rich. It can’t be done.
		
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I appreciate what you're saying Cam but I'd feel more reassured if there appeared to be an antibody testing programme from which they tied to extrapolate the spread & base decisions on it.

At the moment they seem to be working on the basis that if you haven't had a positive test you haven't had it, which as Mrs. BiM's pre-op bloods prove isn't the case.


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Compared to what?
		
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As a percentage of population.


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## bobmac (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			When you and I started working, pension age was 65.  Now it is up to 67 or 68 because we can't afford 65, and this is going to make 67 or 68 economically unviable is what I think he means.
		
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The state pension age increased to 66 last month with another rise to 67 coming in 2026-2028.
So an increase of 2 years since 1925.


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Deaths are super low. Reaction to them is crazy out of proportion. Around 47000 UK deaths attributed to COVID in what is close to a year is nothing. Stopping the world for that is nuts.
		
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Apologies for shouting:

*IT. ISN'T. JUST. ABOUT. DEATHS!*


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

bobmac said:



			The state pension age increased to 66 last month with another rise to 67 coming in 2026-2028.
So an increase of 2 years since 1925.
		
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Again, I'm not arguing the point; you appeared to ask for an explanation, I tried to provide one.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			As a percentage of population.
		
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But every death has been an extra death, I believe the excess mortality for the UK for 2020 is somewhere around 30,000 deaths, at what point does the number become unacceptable? Surely it can’t be left to its own devices?


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Apologies for shouting:

*IT. ISN'T. JUST. ABOUT. DEATHS!*

Click to expand...

That maybe true. 

But according to the reports the press keep showing, that’s the cause for the panic and lockdown.


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## KenL (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			How far has it already run?  With so many asymptomatic and no antibody testing programme that I'm aware of, how far has this actually gone?
		
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I've had an antibody test just this week as part of a programme.  Teachers and others working in schools in Scotland can apply. Run via UK Gov with Public Health Scotland.  Got my result in 36 hours - negative.

https://www.gov.uk/register-coronavirus-antibody-test


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Again, I'm not arguing the point; you appeared to ask for an explanation, I tried to provide one.
		
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Apologies mate if I’ve come across wrong, I wasn’t disagreeing with anything you put.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Keep digging, you know what you are implying.

Click to expand...

I've not nor ever implied anything. However feel free to keep bleating you're actually amusing me now.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			With respect to you as a Christian what about Ede that our Muslim population had to miss because of lockdown this year?

Christmas can't be moved as a day but surely the celebrations can be put on hold if Ness.

The big guy would understand


I will watch and see what he says

I can see a watered down type where schools are open and like planned ops can carry on but non essential shops closed ..

I got a private procedure this month will be interested to see if goes ahead
		
Click to expand...

Precisely. If you don’t celebrate Christmas as I do then move your celebrations to another day but don’t think that you are moving Christmas...😍👍👍


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			That maybe true.

But according to the reports the press keep showing, that’s the cause for the panic and lockdown.
		
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No, it isn't. Deaths are reported, so are local community cases, hospital occupancy, ICU occupancy. Much discussion about land Covid and survivor complications. Covid deniers harp on about the death rate, and the fact that you say 'panic' speaks volumes.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

KenL said:



			I've had an antibody test just this week as part of a programme.  Teachers and others working in schools in Scotland can apply. Run via UK Gov with Public Health Scotland.  Got my result in 36 hours - negative.

https://www.gov.uk/register-coronavirus-antibody-test

Click to expand...

Great if there is a programme, doesn't seem to be being widely advertised or mentioned.

If you don't mind me asking, were you expecting to test positive, or did you have no expectations?  I would expect to because of Mrs. BiM's exposure, but have no access that I'm aware of.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Precisely. If you don’t celebrate Christmas as I do then move your celebrations to another day but don’t think that you are moving Christmas...😍👍👍
		
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Isn't the real Christmas Day thought to actually mid march?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			I've not nor ever implied anything. However feel free to keep bleating you're actually amusing me now.
		
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Of course you didn’t, have you got bored of the WHS threads?


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Apologies mate if I’ve come across wrong, I wasn’t disagreeing with anything you put.

Click to expand...

No problem mate, the one you quoted was a reply to Bobmac, all good here.


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## Imurg (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Isn't the real Christmas Day thought to actually mid march?
		
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Excellent
Xmas and Easter at the same time..


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Apologies for shouting:

*IT. ISN'T. JUST. ABOUT. DEATHS!*

Click to expand...

It so is. All you related to in the other pose is about keeping people alive and not dying from the virus or related complications. 

If it was just infection rate and recovery then we are also massively over reacting.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Isn't the real Christmas Day thought to actually mid march?
		
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I have no idea.  But if you wish to delay celebration of your Christmas festivities until March then feel free 😋🎄 might have to the way things are going...


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## hovis (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Isn't the real Christmas Day thought to actually mid march?
		
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Imagine what state your tree will be in by then


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Excellent
Xmas and Easter at the same time..

Click to expand...

Though one big difference between Christmas and Easter is that the date of Good Friday can and does move 😘


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

It’s pretty poor that the press have all this before the PM makes the formal announcement


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

17:07 still working out what to say...


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			It so is. All you related to in the other pose is about keeping people alive and not dying from the virus or related complications.

If it was just infection rate and recovery then we are also massively over reacting.
		
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That is utter nonsense. You are a denier, so no point attempting to have a rationale conversation with you.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			It’s pretty poor that the press have all this before the PM makes the formal announcement
		
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It’s utterly ridiculous - verging on scandalous mismanagement of communication with us - and already hearing of local Asda mobbed and shelves getting stripped...


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			No, it isn't. Deaths are reported, so are local community cases, hospital occupancy, ICU occupancy. Much discussion about land Covid and survivor complications. Covid deniers harp on about the death rate, and the fact that you say 'panic' speaks volumes.
		
Click to expand...

The chart that they make reference too, with the worst case scenarios doesnt mention survivor issues, it had all the worse case protections and they were for number of deaths. They also haven’t mentioned lack of beds, or at least not as vocally. They made that point last time with save the nhs etc. 

I’m not a covid denier in any form. I know as harshly as anyone the repercussions of it. I’m just saying that when it comes to explaining or justifying the lockdown in layman terms. Deaths are the numbers used.


----------



## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			That is utter nonsense. You are a denier, so no point attempting to have a rationale conversation with you.
		
Click to expand...

what have I denied?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			17:07 still working out what to say...
		
Click to expand...

It’s en embarrassment that we all know already - but it wouldn’t surprise me that it’s a planned leak from the government, you would hope they will explain why it’s nation wide when there are plenty of areas in tier 1 with low level of infections.

Why not have those high risk areas in Tier 3 that are still increasing move to Tier 4 restrictions?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Now 6pm or 7pm .... well no surprise there then...yet we are hearing what we are to be told...WTH is going on...

And what has changed since we were told yesterday and the day before that there were no plans for this...


----------



## banjofred (Oct 31, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It’s utterly ridiculous - verging on scandalous mismanagement of communication with us - and already hearing of local Asda mobbed and shelves getting stripped...
		
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me they've got the lemon sherbets.....I'm a bit addicted at the moment....(actually....Morrisons are better)


----------



## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			The chart that they make reference too, with the worst case scenarios doesnt mention survivor issues, it had all the worse case protections and they were for number of deaths. They also haven’t mentioned lack of beds, or at least not as vocally. They made that point last time with save the nhs etc.

I’m not a covid denier in any form. I know as harshly as anyone the repercussions of it. I’m just saying that when it comes to explaining or justifying the lockdown in layman terms. Deaths are the numbers used.
		
Click to expand...

The media naturally gravitates to dramatic numbers. "If it bleeds, it leads" as they say, so deaths get a lot of attention, but there has been plenty of coverage of the other data, some of which, like test numbers, takes some interpretation. I have also seen a fair bit of coverage of long Covid, and lack of NHS capacity, particularly ICU beds, has been a big issue too. 

If you are saying this is a presentational issue, fine, but I disagree that lockdown (or similar) is not needed to try to prevent a major crisis.


----------



## HampshireHog (Oct 31, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			17:07 still working out what to say...
		
Click to expand...

Watching the Rugby 🏉 more likely


----------



## KenL (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Great if there is a programme, doesn't seem to be being widely advertised or mentioned.

If you don't mind me asking, were you expecting to test positive, or did you have no expectations?  I would expect to because of Mrs. BiM's exposure, but have no access that I'm aware of.
		
Click to expand...

I thought I might have tested positive as I had an illness in January with covid like symptoms.  Cough and high temp.


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

I’ll have to write my reply separately as the other one with the V word got the elbow.

I’m not fussed about people dying. They do everyday and we all will.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			I’ll have to write my reply separately as the other one with the V word got the elbow.

I’m not fussed about people dying. They do everyday and we all will.
		
Click to expand...

Death and taxes, inevitable.


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Death and taxes, inevitable.
		
Click to expand...

Correct. People on here seem to think they will live forever.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Guys , can we avoid political content , however general
		
Click to expand...

If it’s ok to ask can it be clarified what classed as “political” ? Surely it can be just mentioning the government ?


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If it’s ok to ask can it be clarified what classed as “political” ? Surely it can be just mentioning the government ?
		
Click to expand...

You then went on to offer an opinion on the  Government, that’s where you crossed the line


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			You then went on to offer an opinion on the  Government, that’s where you crossed the line
		
Click to expand...

? I just posted in random irritations / “our government” and it was deleted ? That was it ?!


----------



## chrisd (Oct 31, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Now 6pm or 7pm .... well no surprise there then...yet we are hearing what we are to be told...WTH is going on...

And what has changed since we were told yesterday and the day before that there were no plans for this...
		
Click to expand...


Got something better to do in the SILH household?


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? I just posted in random irritations / “our government” and it was deleted ? That was it ?!
		
Click to expand...

Ok I’ll explain it 

Posting “Our Government “ in random irritations is a political statement.

QED


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Ok I’ll explain it

Posting “Our Government “ in random irritations is a political statement.

QED
		
Click to expand...

Seriously?! 

It’s an irritation and nothing more


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Correct. People on here seem to think they will live forever.
		
Click to expand...

Nobody on here thinks that, but some on here seem to think some lives are more important than others.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			You then went on to offer an opinion on the  Government, that’s where you crossed the line
		
Click to expand...

Can we discuss policy like restrictions etc but just can't offer an opinion one way on another as to if those in charge are good or bad

Is that right? Just want to make sure I don't cross the line


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Correct. People on here seem to think they will live forever.
		
Click to expand...

So you are OK with people dying at any age, 'cos its inevitable, innit? We should abandon the NHS entirely then, since they cannot offer immortality.

I think modern medicine has moved on from that to extending healthy life as an objective.


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Nobody on here thinks that, but some on here seem to think some lives are more important than others.
		
Click to expand...

I certainly don’t


----------



## Leftitshort (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Can we discuss policy like restrictions etc but just can't offer an opinion one way on another as to if those in charge are good or bad

Is that right? Just want to make sure I don't cross the line
		
Click to expand...

It’s unworkable! You can’t sanitise a forum that much


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			It’s unworkable! You can’t sanitise a forum that much
		
Click to expand...

Thing is it's come down from above the mods , they have deemed it the rules and we use their service for free so guess we have to accept it


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			So you are OK with people dying at any age, 'cos its inevitable, innit? We should abandon the NHS entirely then, since they cannot offer immortality.
		
Click to expand...

Yup.100%. You can feel bad about it but it won’t change anything. 
When it’s time to go. It’s time to go. Live it up while you can


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## Leftitshort (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Thing is it's come down from above the mods , they have deemed it the rules and we use their service for free so guess we have to accept it
		
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree, but it’s unworkable at the current time imo. Might aswell close out of bounds. It’s the posters at fault not the topics


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Yup.100%. You can feel bad about it but it won’t change anything.
When it’s time to go. It’s time to go. Live it up while you can
		
Click to expand...

I guess you are going to save the NHS on end of life treatment when your time comes, then.


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Can we discuss policy like restrictions etc but just can't offer an opinion one way on another as to if those in charge are good or bad

Is that right? Just want to make sure I don't cross the line
		
Click to expand...

Essentially correct, but not exhaustive 👍


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Essentially correct, but not exhaustive 👍
		
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil I'll try 🤣


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			I certainly don’t
		
Click to expand...

Then what you posted is in post #95 is confusing, surely a policy of letting it “run free” puts those most at risk in the firing line? 
Surely, as a civilised society, we have a duty to protect all, especially the weak and vulnerable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			I don’t disagree, but it’s unworkable at the current time imo. Might aswell close out of bounds. It’s the posters at fault not the topics
		
Click to expand...

I know exactly where Mike H is coming from - as the post said political threads were becoming dominant on the forum, multiple ones and always ended up the same way so was happy to see those threads go and be stopped but hard to see the line when it comes to singular posts because there have been plenty posts mentioning the government.

Anyway - just heard some guys still planning to go holiday to Maderia on Tuesday - why would you still go


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know exactly where Mike H is coming from - as the post said political threads were becoming dominant on the forum, multiple ones and always ended up the same way so was happy to see those threads go and be stopped but hard to see the line when it comes to singular posts because there have been plenty posts mentioning the government.

Anyway - just heard some guys still planning to go holiday to Maderia on Tuesday - why would you still go
		
Click to expand...

I guess that from the tweet you copied it's all outbound travel banned so if they go Tuesday they can still get home and then if they have to isolate maybe they can afford it or something 

Or will be working from home anyways?


----------



## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know exactly where Mike H is coming from - as the post said political threads were becoming dominant on the forum, multiple ones and always ended up the same way so was happy to see those threads go and be stopped but hard to see the line when it comes to singular posts because there have been plenty posts mentioning the government.

Anyway - just heard some guys still planning to go holiday to Maderia on Tuesday - why would you still go
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go to Madeira right now, although it is currently on the travel corridor list so does not need 2 weeks self-isolation on return.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

At this rate, by the time the new lockdown is announced it will nearly be over.


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			At this rate, by the time the new lockdown is announced it will nearly be over. 

Click to expand...

It will be put to a vote in the HoC, so presumably trying to get agreement and votes from MPs. Not a lockdown or Tier 4, apparently, but 'tougher national measures'.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			At this rate, by the time the new lockdown is announced it will nearly be over. 

Click to expand...

Got to be waiting for the rugby to finish 😂😂😂


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## Old Skier (Oct 31, 2020)

We now have some members of the alternative SAGE group saying we shouldn't go into lockdown. Funny when the decision to not have a full lockdown was taken alternative SAGE said that was wrong.

No wonder the public are confused even the "experts" are using it as a political football. 

Just tell us what you want us to do and most of us will do it.


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## Old Skier (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			It will be put to a vote in the HoC, so presumably trying to get agreement and votes from MPs. Not a lockdown or Tier 4, apparently, but 'tougher national measures'.
		
Click to expand...

He's looking for the leak, but as the place is a permanent leak, good luck with that


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

Still nothing in those slides that suggests the South of England should be subject to the same restrictions that the North currently requires....


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## Captainron (Oct 31, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Then what you posted is in post #95 is confusing, surely a policy of letting it “run free” puts those most at risk in the firing line?
Surely, as a civilised society, we have a duty to protect all, especially the weak and vulnerable.
		
Click to expand...

Nope. Not if it stuffs everyone else up. 
Spin the wheel and take your chances


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## fundy (Oct 31, 2020)

YTS lad needs to go on a powerpoint course lol


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## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

No golf?


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			No golf?
		
Click to expand...

That’s how I see it after what I’ve just heard Boris say.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

Lots of manufactured justification to make it national wide , in four weeks no much will change because schools etc staying open - all it’s basically doing it shutting pubs , non essential work and amateur sport. Mental health going to be a killer over the next four weeks with the darks night etc 

It’s going to be no different in 4 weeks - so what’s changed from the thinking from the “localised” method to the national method ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2020)

No golf as I understand it. Hopefully people will comply and we can break the rise in cases and get back to a degree of normality in December so businesses and shops can have a few weeks to see some strong trading and make as much as they can before Christmas. That in itself is looking to be a different beast. In laws have already said they aren't coming over so just the two of us. No problem as long as we can have something nice to eat and just enjoy our own company but for those with large families, especially kids, it is going to be tough


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			He's looking for the leak, but as the place is a permanent leak, good luck with that
		
Click to expand...

It is probably hard to stop unwanted leaks when there are so many deliberate ones.


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

Not sure shops need to be opened tbh. Most have online facilities. Let them operate that way too. No need to allow the masses into shops at winter.


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## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lots of manufactured justification to make it national wide , in four weeks no much will change because schools etc staying open - all it’s basically doing it shutting pubs , non essential work and amateur sport. Mental health going to be a killer over the next four weeks with the darks night etc

It’s going to be no different in 4 weeks - so what’s changed from the thinking from the “localised” method to the national method ?
		
Click to expand...

The exit strategy seems to be back into the tier system. You might see a tier 4 being slipped in as an option which would allow an exit into no change for some areas.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			The exit strategy seems to be back into the tier system. You might see a tier 4 being slipped in as an option which would allow an exit into no change for some areas.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't that, and with an extra tier only going to go back to the squabbling about how it is unfair one area is on the highest level and five miles down the road isn't


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## Papas1982 (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			The exit strategy seems to be back into the tier system. You might see a tier 4 being slipped in as an option which would allow an exit into no change for some areas.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but I can only imagine we are all going into full lockdown so that everyone is treated equally. Then when the tiers happen in a month, they can say that we all had the same chance.... 

All the charts seemed to show the South having a much better outlook....


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## Neilds (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			That’s how I see it after what I’ve just heard Boris say.
		
Click to expand...

When did he mention golf? All speculation til we get more details


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Let’s do nothing and laugh if the experts get it wrong, especially when there is an increase in all areas across the Country, including when they are saying hospitalisations will exceed the peak we saw in spring...........Or let’s try and do something and avoid the worse case scenario.

Crazy to think they should ignore the warnings or they are making it up.


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## Swingalot (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			That’s how I see it after what I’ve just heard Boris say.
		
Click to expand...

Why no golf? Did not hear anything that ruled golf as we had after lockdown, so course open but clubhouse shut?


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## jim8flog (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			It is probably hard to stop unwanted leaks when there are so many deliberate ones.
		
Click to expand...

 The government needs to hand out free tenna pads


----------



## upsidedown (Oct 31, 2020)

Neilds said:



			When did he mention golf? All speculation til we get more details
		
Click to expand...

Sky reporting outdoor recreation is ok but will wait on clarification


----------



## fundy (Oct 31, 2020)

good to know the briefing was important  nearly 2 hours late, a child level powerpoint presentation, very little clear instruction then had to take it off BBC1 as cant delay strictly


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## Jamesbrown (Oct 31, 2020)

Lockdown? No, not for me. 
Was good last time, not this time. Go stuff yourself. Preposterous, grossly exaggerated, backwards, life ruining restrictions. 

Wake me up when people start dying on the streets


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			That’s how I see it after what I’ve just heard Boris say.
		
Click to expand...


From the BBC website;

Posted at 19:1219:12
*Measures to last until start of December*
Johnson outlines the measures that he says will last until the start of December.
And he lists some of the exceptions for which people can leave their homes, including: 

for education
for work, if you cannot work from home
*for exercise and recreation outdoors *
for medical reasons
to shop for food and essentials
to care for others
If correct, why no golf?


----------



## jim8flog (Oct 31, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			No golf?
		
Click to expand...




Billysboots said:



			That’s how I see it after what I’ve just heard Boris say.
		
Click to expand...

I interpreted what he said as back to 2 balls.

Guess we will have to wait in England for England Golf to advise Club Managers of the precise interpretation.


----------



## Jacko_G (Oct 31, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			I interpreted what he said as back to 2 balls.

Guess we will have to wait in England for England Golf to advise Club Managers of the precise interpretation.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully England golf are more decisive and on the ball than their counterparts north of the wall.


----------



## fenwayrich (Oct 31, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			I interpreted what he said as back to 2 balls.

Guess we will have to wait in England for England Golf to advise Club Managers of the precise interpretation.
		
Click to expand...

We might have to wait a while, they'll be dealing with the World Handicap System problems as a matter of priority.


----------



## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

fenwayrich said:



			We might have to wait a while, they'll be dealing with the World Handicap System problems as a matter of priority.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, that decision can wait until they sort out the missing 79 in my list of WHS scores!


----------



## Imurg (Oct 31, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Yeah, that decision can wait until they sort out the missing 79 in my list of WHS scores!
		
Click to expand...

They need to find my 75 first...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

upsidedown said:



			Sky reporting outdoor recreation is ok but will wait on clarification
		
Click to expand...

Did I hear that we can exercise and take part in recreation outdoors - but only with members of your household or one person from another household. Or did I imagine that?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 31, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			I interpreted what he said as back to 2 balls.

Guess we will have to wait in England for England Golf to advise Club Managers of the precise interpretation.
		
Click to expand...

That's how I've read it as well. Can only meet one person from another household outside so unless it's three from one household playing a 4 ball with one from another household then it's two balls only.


----------



## williamalex1 (Oct 31, 2020)

Just a thought, why not close the schools and unis now for 4 week, and deduct the 4 weeks from the 8 ? week summer break


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Neilds said:



			When did he mention golf? All speculation til we get more details
		
Click to expand...

No amateur sport. That seems pretty clear.


----------



## Imurg (Oct 31, 2020)

I'm guessing driving tests and lessons will suspended but I'll wait until 9.15pm on Wednesday to be told about it.......


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Golf I guess will be ok but only in two balls ?
		
Click to expand...

Not necessarily; you can apparently only meet people from one other household, so I'm not seeing a reason why I can't play a 3 ball with my usual 4 ball comp partner and his son, still only 2 households mixing.


----------



## Imurg (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not necessarily; you can apparently only meet people from one other household, so I'm not seeing a reason why I can't play a 3 ball with my usual 4 ball comp partner and his son, still only 2 households mixing.
		
Click to expand...

Thats how it was when we first came back after Lockdown1.....
As we're not going as hard a lockdown as then hopefully golf stays..
But my knee's knackered so I'm not that fussed.....


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not necessarily; you can apparently only meet people from one other household, so I'm not seeing a reason why I can't play a 3 ball with my usual 4 ball comp partner and his son, still only 2 households mixing.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that it was only one person from another household, meaning that I can still go and see my mum as long as my stepdad doesn't come out to say hello.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)




----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not necessarily; you can apparently only meet people from one other household, so I'm not seeing a reason why I can't play a 3 ball with my usual 4 ball comp partner and his son, still only 2 households mixing.
		
Click to expand...

They can play with you - you can’t play with them ... 🤪 though LPs screenshot post suggests not at all.


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			From the BBC website;

Posted at 19:1219:12
*Measures to last until start of December*
Johnson outlines the measures that he says will last until the start of December.
And he lists some of the exceptions for which people can leave their homes, including:

for education
for work, if you cannot work from home
*for exercise and recreation outdoors *
for medical reasons
to shop for food and essentials
to care for others
If correct, why no golf?
		
Click to expand...

Because all leisure facilities will shut. I don’t doubt England Golf will seek clarification, but most online news articles I’ve read thus far are expressly saying no golf.

I agree there should be no reason, given the advice we can take unlimited exercise with one non-family member, why 2-balls can’t continue with clubhouses shut. But at the moment it seems wishful thinking.


----------



## BiMGuy (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not necessarily; you can apparently only meet people from one other household, so I'm not seeing a reason why I can't play a 3 ball with my usual 4 ball comp partner and his son, still only 2 households mixing.
		
Click to expand...

Because you can only play with one other person from another household.


----------



## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Imurg said:



			They need to find my 75 first...

Click to expand...

Mmm. Par 71, CR 71.2 and slope 138 (whites). Not bad.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No golf as I understand it. Hopefully people will comply and we can break the rise in cases and get back to a degree of normality in December so businesses and shops can have a few weeks to see some strong trading and make as much as they can before Christmas. That in itself is looking to be a different beast. In laws have already said they aren't coming over so just the two of us. No problem as long as we can have something nice to eat and just enjoy our own company but for those with large families, especially kids, it is going to be tough
		
Click to expand...

See I'm not sure we are allowed out for exercise outside 

Will see what golf england say ofc 

Won't be that big a deal but it's as clear as mud


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Golf I guess will be ok but only in two balls ?
		
Click to expand...

Back to quick golf!


----------



## Swingalot (Oct 31, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			I interpreted what he said as back to 2 balls.

Guess we will have to wait in England for England Golf to advise Club Managers of the precise interpretation.
		
Click to expand...




williamalex1 said:



			Just a thought, why not close the schools and unis now for 4 week, and deduct the 4 weeks from the 8 ? week summer break 

Click to expand...

Because this will not be the last lockdown


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)




----------



## Jamesbrown (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



View attachment 33218

Click to expand...

 Nonsensical, ridiculous and I will ignore.


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Swingalot said:



			Because this will not be the last lockdown
		
Click to expand...

I’m afraid you’re probably right. I read a lengthy article today which suggested we’re in this mess for at least the next eighteen months, and that we are unlikely to see a return to life anything like what it was in 2019 for probably five years.

Not sure what that’s based upon, but truly depressing if true.


----------



## rudebhoy (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



View attachment 33218

Click to expand...

Where is that from?


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			Nonsensical, ridiculous and I will ignore.
		
Click to expand...

Nonsensical, I agree. But if England Golf clarify it and are told to shut golf clubs just how do you propose to ignore it? Park outside the locked golf club car park and climb over the gate?


----------



## Ethan (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



View attachment 33218

Click to expand...

What is the source for that?


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

rudebhoy said:



			Where is that from?
		
Click to expand...

Sky News.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Sky News.
		
Click to expand...

I'm waiting for a credible source


----------



## Wabinez (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm waiting for a credible source
		
Click to expand...

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...er-england-goes-into-second-lockdown-12119939


----------



## Jamesbrown (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Nonsensical, I agree. But if England Golf clarify it and are told to shut golf clubs just how do you propose to ignore it? Park outside the locked golf club car park and climb over the gate?
		
Click to expand...

Same as I do Christmas Day, park on the road and walk on. No locks. Public right of way runs through.


----------



## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Wabinez said:



https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...er-england-goes-into-second-lockdown-12119939

Click to expand...

Still waiting

Sky isn't creditable 🤣


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			Same as I do Christmas Day, park on the road and walk on. No locks. Public right of way runs through.
		
Click to expand...

And if you are caught, you’ll get sanctioned 

If everyone obeyed the rules we wouldn’t be in this mess


----------



## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			And if you are caught, you’ll get sanctioned

If everyone obeyed the rules we wouldn’t be in this mess
		
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Quite.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I’m afraid you’re probably right. I read a lengthy article today which suggested we’re in this mess for at least the next eighteen months, and that we are unlikely to see a return to life anything like what it was in 2019 for probably five years.

Not sure what that’s based upon, but truly depressing if true.
		
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Do you have a link to that please?


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Do you have a link to that please?
		
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I’ve tried to post a link which didn’t seem to work. It’s on the BBC News - “How long before life is normal again?”


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## IanM (Oct 31, 2020)

Bit different Jim.   We've had members patrolling the course during lockdown in case of vandalism.   Any members teeing it up would get copious grief!


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## Jamesbrown (Oct 31, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			And if you are caught, you’ll get sanctioned

If everyone obeyed the rules we wouldn’t be in this mess
		
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I accept the risk, if I still have to go to work, still pay my taxes then I deserve some modicum of happiness. 

If everyone didn’t observe the rules then we wouldn’t be in this mess either. 
There’s a time to say no and now is the time because if we don’t we accept years of this. 

I’ll accept Sweden or full martial law. Not half in half out continuation of dilly dallying.


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Still waiting

Sky isn't creditable 🤣
		
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I agree, not the most credible source. But if they are expressly referring to “no golf” (as other news outlets are), I would suggest it has perhaps stemmed from a press briefing. If it doesn’t it seems strange that it is being specifically mentioned.

Listen, folks. I’m not saying I agree with this at all. I’m merely saying what I have seen. Don’t shoot the messenger.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I’ve tried to post a link which didn’t seem to work. It’s on the BBC News - “How long before life is normal again?”
		
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Here you go.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54661843


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Here you go.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54661843

Click to expand...

That’s the fella.


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## Old Skier (Oct 31, 2020)

From EG

The UK Government has this evening (31 October) announced a one-month lockdown of England, starting at midnight on Thursday 5 November and running until 2 December.

These new measures will see the closure of pubs, restaurants and non-essential retail.

People can continue to exercise for unlimited periods outdoors, either with people from their own households or on a one-to-one basis with one person from another household.

*England Golf is working with the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf to study the detail, and to establish the exact restrictions on golf clubs and their facilities as the information becomes available. *

*We will communicate definitive guidance once received from government.*

Please continue to consult our social media channels and the England Golf website for all updates via our dedicated coronavirus news pages. This includes our FAQs document which will be reviewed and refreshed at the earliest opportunity.

Our best wishes to you and your families. Please stay safe and well.

Jeremy Tomlinson, England Golf CEO


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I agree, not the most credible source. But if they are expressly referring to “no golf” (as other news outlets are), I would suggest it has perhaps stemmed from a press briefing. If it doesn’t it seems strange that it is being specifically mentioned.

Listen, folks. I’m not saying I agree with this at all. I’m merely saying what I have seen. Don’t shoot the messenger.
		
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Even if it's no golf for a month 

Least it's winter now


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 31, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I accept the risk, if I still have to go to work, still pay my taxes then I deserve some modicum of happiness.

If everyone didn’t observe the rules then we wouldn’t be in this mess either.
There’s a time to say no and now is the time because if we don’t we accept years of this.

I’ll accept Sweden or full martial law. Not half in half out continuation of dilly dallying.
		
Click to expand...


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## Robster59 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I accept the risk, if I still have to go to work, still pay my taxes then I deserve some modicum of happiness.

If everyone didn’t observe the rules then we wouldn’t be in this mess either.
There’s a time to say no and now is the time because if we don’t we accept years of this.

I’ll accept Sweden or full martial law. Not half in half out continuation of dilly dallying.
		
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And that's the selfish, self centered, arrogant attitude of far too many that's put us where we are.


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			From EG

The UK Government has this evening (31 October) announced a one-month lockdown of England, starting at midnight on Thursday 5 November and running until 2 December.

These new measures will see the closure of pubs, restaurants and non-essential retail.

People can continue to exercise for unlimited periods outdoors, either with people from their own households or on a one-to-one basis with one person from another household.

*England Golf is working with the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf to study the detail, and to establish the exact restrictions on golf clubs and their facilities as the information becomes available. *

*We will communicate definitive guidance once received from government.*

Please continue to consult our social media channels and the England Golf website for all updates via our dedicated coronavirus news pages. This includes our FAQs document which will be reviewed and refreshed at the earliest opportunity.

Our best wishes to you and your families. Please stay safe and well.

Jeremy Tomlinson, England Golf CEO
		
Click to expand...

Totally expected. It’s what they are there for in these circumstances.

Along with most here, when I heard Boris say we could take unlimited outdoor exercise with one person from outside our household, I immediately thought, okay, that’s not great, but at least we can play as 2-balls.

Then he said ALL leisure was to shut. Then I read professional sport could continue, but not amateur. And then various news outlets start expressly referring to “no golf”. I’ve merely joined the dots.

I absolutely hope common sense prevails because, frankly, I see no reason we cannot at least play as 2-balls. I see no reason why we can’t continue to play golf as we have been for the last six months but with clubhouses shut, for all that matter.

But during this entire sorry saga, common sense has been in staggeringly short supply. There’s evidence aplenty on these pages alone at times.


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## Jamesbrown (Oct 31, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			And that's the selfish, self centered, arrogant attitude of far too many that's put us where we are.
		
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No it’s needy people who desire social interaction not someone who is going to play golf.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 31, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			No it’s needy people who desire social interaction not someone who is going to play golf.
		
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You do seem to need attention!


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## Old Skier (Oct 31, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			And that's the selfish, self centered, arrogant attitude of far too many that's put us where we are.
		
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And it’s about time those in power say it.


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## Dando (Oct 31, 2020)

Captainron said:



			Correct. People on here seem to think they will live forever.
		
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Can you imagine how much more miserable and bitter some on here would be if they lived forever


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## Beedee (Oct 31, 2020)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

Golf courses and driving ranges explicitly listed in the "must close" list (section 4 bullet 2)


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Beedee said:



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

Golf courses and driving ranges explicitly listed in the "must close" list (section 4 bullet 2)
		
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Yep. That seems credible. I hope, throughout the entire month, it absolutely slings it down. Hell, bring on the snow.

Anything so that I don’t miss the golf club.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 31, 2020)

I might have to get a part time job, no golf.
Volunteer somewhere.
Four weeks with HID.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			And it’s about time those in power say it.
		
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Or those in power actually led by example!


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## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2020)

Leftitshort said:



			It’s unworkable! You can’t sanitise a forum that much
		
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Its the inconsistency that gets on my wick.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 31, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			And it’s about time those in power say it.
		
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They're the worst culprits.


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## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2020)

For months the powers that be have said it's ok to mix with people outside, with some social distancing.

Suddenly, this is no longer the case.

It either is, was, could be, ok, or it never was.


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## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2020)

For months the powers that be have said it's ok to mix with people outside, with some social distancing.

Suddenly, this is no longer the case.

It either is, was, could be, ok, or it never was.


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## hovis (Oct 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			For months the powers that be have said it's ok to mix with people outside, with some social distancing.

Suddenly, this is no longer the case.

It either is, was, could be, ok, or it never was.
		
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Perhaps we'll see a different approach when we come out off lockdown.   Personally I think "eat help to help out" has a lot to answer for.     What a stupid idea that was.   In my opinion off course


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Yep. That seems credible. *I hope, throughout the entire month, it absolutely slings it down. Hell, bring on the snow.*

Anything so that I don’t miss the golf club.
		
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Thanks, so the motorbike will stay in the garage as well then


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## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Thanks, so the motorbike will stay in the garage as well then 

Click to expand...

It's an unnecessary travel issue? 

Unless it becomes necessary to go to the offy, and then it's fine.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			How many people have had it? Now let it run with no restrictions.. more people have it more people die

47k becomes 147k and so on.
		
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It was estimated that herd immunity would produce 500k deaths in the UK in a year


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## SocketRocket (Oct 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			For months the powers that be have said it's ok to mix with people outside, with some social distancing.

Suddenly, this is no longer the case.

It either is, was, could be, ok, or it never was.
		
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I think the problem was social distancing wasn't happening.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			For months the powers that be have said it's ok to mix with people outside, with some social distancing.

Suddenly, this is no longer the case.

It either is, was, could be, ok, or it never was.
		
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You can say that again ☺️


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			It's an unnecessary travel issue?

Unless it becomes necessary to go to the offy, and then it's fine.
		
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It's ok to go test ones eyesight


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## Billysboots (Oct 31, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Thanks, so the motorbike will stay in the garage as well then 

Click to expand...

I’m thinking of your health an well being. Two wheels in winter? That takes balls of steel 😉


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			It's an unnecessary travel issue?

Unless it becomes necessary to go to the offy, and then it's fine.
		
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No, it's an exercise issue.

https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/motorcycling-burns-between-170-and-600-calories-per-hour/


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 31, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I’m thinking of your health an well being. Two wheels in winter? That takes balls of steel 😉
		
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Or a frontal lobotomy.


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## Robster59 (Oct 31, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			And it’s about time those in power say it.
		
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I was saying that to my missus tonight. It would be still heartening if the PM looked straight in to the camera just after thanking all those who obeyed the rules to say to really have a go at those who don't.


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## User62651 (Oct 31, 2020)

Sad it's come to this already, autumn staycationers from England have been a good boost to the local tourist economy here and HIDs business. That income stream will vanish by midweek as I guess travelling for holidays is now non essential? Thankful however that health is a devolved matter to miss this lockdown. Feel sorry for Devon and other places who are keeping covid in check, seems unfair to blanket lockdown everywhere. Tough one, golf should be allowed, at least in 2s.


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## Robster59 (Oct 31, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			No it’s needy people who desire social interaction not someone who is going to play golf.
		
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What would you say was more important?  You getting out for a bit of social interaction or the man I saw interviewed on TV whose wife is terminally ill with cancer and can't get out to see something during her final days because it's too dangerous with Covid because people thought about their own satisfaction rather than the greater good.
We live with an old man who has Alzheimer's. We don't go out to where we like to go because we understand there is a danger and that Covid is contagious. We haven't had a holiday for over a year or even had an a night out. Heck if we spend more than 2-hours out of the house we feel guilty about leaving him. We can't put him into respite because of danger to him.
My missus can't get to see her friends. I'm ok I've been able to play golf, albeit once a week, but it may be the be that will have to stop again. She doesn't even have that.
So please, spare me your platitudes about "social interaction".  It's the selfishness of the few who's spoil it for everyone.  It's like people who say "oh I'm young so it doesn't affect me" without thinking about all the people they may pass an infection on to.


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## 126849660 (Nov 1, 2020)

A


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 1, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			What would you say was more important?  You getting out for a bit of social interaction or the man I saw interviewed on TV whose wife is terminally ill with cancer and can't get out to see something during her final days because it's too dangerous with Covid because people thought about their own satisfaction rather than the greater good.
We live with an old man who has Alzheimer's. We don't go out to where we like to go because we understand there is a danger and that Covid is contagious. We haven't had a holiday for over a year or even had an a night out. Heck if we spend more than 2-hours out of the house we feel guilty about leaving him. We can't put him into respite because of danger to him.
My missus can't get to see her friends. I'm ok I've been able to play golf, albeit once a week, but it may be the be that will have to stop again. She doesn't even have that.
So please, spare me your platitudes about "social interaction".  It's the selfishness of the few who's spoil it for everyone.  It's like people who say "oh I'm young so it doesn't affect me" without thinking about all the people they may pass an infection on to.
		
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I would say your attacking the wrong person lead by your personal circumstances. I’ve never needed social interaction nor am I going to get out for any.
I’m going to disregard a rule that most sane people will find arbitrary and other worldly, hit a ball in one of the most covid secure places on earth with a transmission probability of 0.

I will not be limited to just work for x amount of weeks again for people to undo it all again for a Christmas Day get together.
I will play golf during the lockdown  with two four legged friends, because if people can run, cycle or walk for exercise than I can walk with a bag of sticks and balls.


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I would say your attacking the wrong person lead by your personal circumstances. I’ve never needed social interaction nor am I going to get out for any.
I’m going to disregard a rule that most sane people will find arbitrary and other worldly, hit a ball in one of the most covid secure places on earth with a transmission probability of 0.

I will not be limited to just work for x amount of weeks again for people to undo it all again for a Christmas Day get together.
I will play golf during the lockdown  with two four legged friends, because if people can run, cycle or walk for exercise than I can walk with a bag of sticks and balls.
		
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And where exactly will you play? 

Do you intend to trespass onto your own closed golf club or some other course where you hope not to be recognized?


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Maybe golf will open. Other sports will  be lobbying the government to stay open. I'd like to think the egu will too.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Come on everyone, get signing. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851


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## KenL (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Come on everyone, get signing. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851

Click to expand...

I thought political posts weren't allowed?  😂


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

KenL said:



			I thought political posts weren't allowed?  😂
		
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Nice😂


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Come on everyone, get signing. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851

Click to expand...

I won't be signing it.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And where exactly will you play?

Do you intend to trespass onto your own closed golf club or some other course where you hope not to be recognized?
		
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I will be at my club where i will be recognised.


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I will be at my club where i will be recognised.
		
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So if they close on Thursday, you’ll ignore that and go on the course?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

MrPing said:



			I ordered the wife a new car yesterday from London it’s supposed to be getting shipped up next week and guy is flying up on Thursday to there Glasgow branch to do the handover in person. Think it will get cancelled?
		
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Scotland is working in a different way so you need to check what is happening with you locally. Not sure I see the point of someone flying up from London to do a personal handover so that aspect should be binned off. They could claim it is for business, it is, so technically they can do it if they want to. The important thing is surely get the car up to Glasgow, chuck me the keys.

My wife gets her new lease car this week. It should be at the dealers by Tuesday so we will be on the phone tomorrow to push for collection/delivery by Wednesday. Last time the dealers closed so I would expect the same to happen again from Thursday onwards in England.


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## ScienceBoy (Nov 1, 2020)

I may sign it but only after we have had at least two weeks of lockdown.


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## 126849660 (Nov 1, 2020)

A


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

MrPing said:



			Yea I thought it was weird them flying up. Said to him wont Glasgow branch just do handover but guy says they always like to meet and do handover personally. Will give them call tomorrow just to make sure hes still coming up on Thursday.
		
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I'm guessing you aren't buying a basic Ford Fiesta but even so.....


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Come on everyone, get signing.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851

Click to expand...

This is a reasonable petition, although it misses one critical element, that the risk of transmission outdoors is very low.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			This is a reasonable petition, although it misses one critical element, that the risk of transmission outdoors is very low.
		
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True
But it’s got 33k + signatures already, if it reaches 100k then it gets debated in parliament. 
It’s democracy in action , I obviously don’t agree with the current decision, but if it is upheld, then I will respect it


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## Papas1982 (Nov 1, 2020)

Imo golf is off. 

Theres a bigger argument that not everyone needs to be in lockdown imo but as we are treating everyone equally. Golfers won't get a pass. 

He tried localisation and limited restrictions. Enough people didn't stick to it. So now it's back to the cliche of we're all in this together. 

Didnt consider it last time, but come march a decision may need to be made on golf. I'm happy to support a club for a year but if we have 4/5 years of this as some reports suggest then I'm not sure it's worth it.


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## 126849660 (Nov 1, 2020)

A


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			Imo golf is off.

Theres a bigger argument that not everyone needs to be in lockdown imo but as we are treating everyone equally. Golfers won't get a pass.

He tried localisation and limited restrictions. Enough people didn't stick to it. So now it's back to the cliche of we're all in this together.

Didnt consider it last time, but come march a decision may need to be made on golf. I'm happy to support a club for a year but if we have 4/5 years of this as some reports suggest then I'm not sure it's worth it.
		
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There is a need for understandable policy, but one of the huge risk factors is being in close proximity indoors. The risk outside is dramatically lower and with social distancing, negligible. England Golf put in place sensible rules on touching the flags etc, and all clubs have procedures on clubhouse access etc. There is no meaningful risk in golf under these procedures. Arguably, they who must not be named should be encouraging people to get out and walk, run, play golf, play tennis, fly a kite and do other socially distanced stuff.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			This is a reasonable petition, although it misses one critical element, that the risk of transmission outdoors is very low.
		
Click to expand...




Ethan said:



			There is a need for understandable policy, but one of the huge risk factors is being in close proximity indoors. The risk outside is dramatically lower and with social distancing, negligible. England Golf put in place sensible rules on touching the flags etc, and all clubs have procedures on clubhouse access etc. There is no meaningful risk in golf under these procedures. Arguably, they who must not be named should be encouraging people to get out and walk, run, play golf, play tennis, fly a kite and do other socially distanced stuff.
		
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For the interests of the forum what is the percentage of risk? 

Low risk for me is 30%, low risk for others may differ and numbers may comfort some.


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			There is a need for understandable policy, but one of the huge risk factors is being in close proximity indoors. The risk outside is dramatically lower and with social distancing, negligible. England Golf put in place sensible rules on touching the flags etc, and all clubs have procedures on clubhouse access etc. There is no meaningful risk in golf under these procedures. Arguably, they who must not be named should be encouraging people to get out and walk, run, play golf, play tennis, fly a kite and do other socially distanced stuff.
		
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I couldn’t agree more.

Instead golf, and similar outdoor activities, have been swept up with the same broom and a blanket ban imposed. EG went to great lengths to get us all playing again in May, and we are effectively now being told that wasn’t safe. I’m not aware of a single case of covid being transmitted in our clubhouse, never mind out on the course.

There is a lot more at stake here than just the virus. Mental and physical well being are incredibly important as well, and yet this announcement, and more specifically the detail of it, just seems rushed with swathes of it lacking any sort of rationale. I greeted the first lockdown with some positivity - if it had to be done for the greater good then so be it. This time round I have a real sense of despair, as though we seem to be learning nothing.


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## chrisd (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			But it’s got 33k + signatures already,
		
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33k+1 👍


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## Imurg (Nov 1, 2020)

chrisd said:



			33k+1 👍
		
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Over 63k now...going up a couple of hundred every few seconds..


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## drdel (Nov 1, 2020)

The lockdown is a way of buying time to reduce the peak load on the health services and allow research time. 

It will not eradicate the virus, if people followed the advice to reduce interaction it would have allowed headway for the NHS. 

Finding better treatments is the only solution to a pandemic. Wittering about it is hot air.


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## chrisd (Nov 1, 2020)

drdel said:



			The lockdown is a way of buying time to reduce the peak load on the health services and allow research time. 

It will not eradicate the virus, if people followed the advice to reduce interaction it would have allowed headway for the NHS. 

Finding better treatments is the only solution to a pandemic. Wittering about it is hot air.
		
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Spot on, but better treatments are what every country is striving for and lets hope it comes soon


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## Papas1982 (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			There is a need for understandable policy, but one of the huge risk factors is being in close proximity indoors. The risk outside is dramatically lower and with social distancing, negligible. England Golf put in place sensible rules on touching the flags etc, and all clubs have procedures on clubhouse access etc. There is no meaningful risk in golf under these procedures. Arguably, they who must not be named should be encouraging people to get out and walk, run, play golf, play tennis, fly a kite and do other socially distanced stuff.
		
Click to expand...

I fully appreciate being outside is significantly safer. I just don't for one second think that the government will change their stance as its clear they've given up on placing trust in small groups (counties) and have decided to treat everyone the same.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

I had an Covid alert come through on my phone After a round of golf. Had to isolate for 9 days. Make of that what you will. 🤔


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 1, 2020)

I totally understand why all golf courses will be closed - it is the perception issue - if gyms and leisure centres are closing which are likely to be sources of contagion, then the general public will look at golf and simply say "how come they can still play?" without understanding the nuances involved in making the game safe.   So yes we have to pay the price for the morons in society.

Unfortunately the one poster on here who has already stated he will ignore the law and carry on playing falls into that category.   If any of our members try that after Thursday, they are going to find themselves not playing for a very long time.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

About sums it up


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I had an Covid alert come through on my phone After a round of golf. Had to isolate for 9 days. Make of that what you will. 🤔
		
Click to expand...

That doesn't mean it come from the course.  It means some one that you have recently been in contact with tested possitve


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			I totally understand why all golf courses will be closed - it is the perception issue - if gyms and leisure centres are closing which are likely to be sources of contagion, then the general public will look at golf and simply say "how come they can still play?" without understanding the nuances involved in making the game safe.   So yes we have to pay the price for the morons in society.

Unfortunately the one poster on here who has already stated he will ignore the law and carry on playing falls into that category.   If any of our members try that after Thursday, they are going to find themselves not playing for a very long time.
		
Click to expand...

and that sums it up perfectly for me.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

drdel said:



			The lockdown is a way of buying time to reduce the peak load on the health services and allow research time.

It will not eradicate the virus, if people followed the advice to reduce interaction it would have allowed headway for the NHS.

Finding better treatments is the only solution to a pandemic. Wittering about it is hot air.
		
Click to expand...

Actually, an effective and brutal lockdown would go some way to eradicate the virus. If it can't propagate, it dies. If it can't transmit, it can't propagate. 

Treatments are only part of the answer. Dexa is only useful if you are on oxygenation, and even then the cure rate is modest. Remdesivir is turning out not to be the magic bullet some thought it was, the regeneron antibody cocktail is likewise showing some issues and is very expensive and not scalable. There is no early intervention treatment known to meaningfully reduce the risk of reaching ICU. 

Vaccination is the biggest weapon, but current JCVI proposals are to not vaccinate everyone, only those over 50 or care home/NHS workers, and vulnerable people. That leaves a lot of people capable of experiencing serious morbidity uncovered. The policy is clearly still a herd immunity lite (that dare not speak its name) approach. 

This thing has a long way to run yet, and Lockdown III is likely in early 2021 after a Christmas shopping/party/kids coming back from Uni surge kicks in.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I had an Covid alert come through on my phone After a round of golf. Had to isolate for 9 days. Make of that what you will. 🤔
		
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The contact occurred 5 days previously, since the 14 days dates from last contact.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			That doesn't mean it come from the course.  It means some one that you have recently been in contact with tested possitve
		
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which was a PP 👍 The day he had his test result through was the day I had my isolation warning, straight to the course, straight home. Another PP had the exact same Covid alert and had to isolate for the same time.


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



*There is a need for understandable policy, but one of the huge risk factors is being in close proximity indoors. The risk outside is dramatically lower and with social distancing, negligible. E*ngland Golf put in place sensible rules on touching the flags etc, and all clubs have procedures on clubhouse access etc. There is no meaningful risk in golf under these procedures. Arguably, they who must not be named should be encouraging people to get out and walk, run, play golf, play tennis, fly a kite and do other socially distanced stuff.
		
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This bold part is exactly t right, but it is not recognised and adhered to by the general public .it isn't emphasised enough by the authorities.
It is the breathing of others expelled air either indoors or being too close together that has spread this virus.
So, on the face of it, playing golf ,  being  outdoors, shouldn't contribute to the problem.
But, it can and does if those playing don't social distance. And from what I've seen at my club there are too many who don't. 
Groups all close together talking etc very close, and though outside, it's clear they are breathing each others air.
Thus the virus will spread.
It's a fact that that will happen at all sports gatherings , and this lockdown is a month long severe effort to get the figures down and stop this virus overrunning us.
Not playing golf for a month isn't a lot to ask in the face of our country's problem.
Not going to be a popular opinion, but it is disappointing to see  each particular interest vying  so hard to keep their wishes going, each wanting to be the exception.
I want to play golf as much as the next man, but can't we make an effort for the next month?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			There is a need for understandable policy, but one of the huge risk factors is being in close proximity indoors. The risk outside is dramatically lower and with social distancing, negligible. England Golf put in place sensible rules on touching the flags etc, and all clubs have procedures on clubhouse access etc. There is no meaningful risk in golf under these procedures. Arguably, they who must not be named should be encouraging people to get out and walk, run, play golf, play tennis, fly a kite and do other socially distanced stuff.
		
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Not sure about Tennis .
Would you not be handling the same balls as your opponent.
Golf is unique where nobody touches your ball or equipment at all.
If were all in it together I can’t see courses staying open.


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			which was a PP 👍 The day he had his test result through was the day I had my isolation warning, straight to the course, straight home. Another PP had the exact same Covid alert and had to isolate for the same time.
		
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You can see how this happened.  Although you most likely stayed your distance from each other I bet you put your bags next to each other on every tee shot.  Phones in bags?


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## SaintHacker (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And where exactly will you play?

Do you intend to trespass onto your own closed golf club or some other course where you hope not to be recognized?
		
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I've had to book an urgent eye test, only place i could get one was in Wentworth


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			You can see how this happened.  Although you most likely stayed your distance from each other I bet you put your bags next to each other on every tee shot.  Phones in bags?
		
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We have said exactly the same, the problem is, I was at kids football when my alert came through. Not ideal. Other PP who got the alert was at the course. He mentioned it to his PPs and that all said they would turn off there Covid apps. That don’t help at all.


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			We have said exactly the same, the problem is, I was at kids football when my alert came through. Not ideal. Other PP who got the alert was at the course. He mentioned it to his PPs and that all said they would turn off there Covid apps. That don’t help at all.
		
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We have to turn our off at work but we wear ppe. 
The gym I used to work at have a pigeon hole system behind the counter where customers can leave their phone, wallet and keys.  So now you have 80 phones all within a meter of each other.  One got a possitve test and took 79 down with him 😂. That's some oversight


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

This petition thing is going to show golf, and golfers in a very poor light. We will come across as self indulgent, arrogant, self entitled, elite, snobby, with zero sympathy for the plight of others.
It doesn't help the image golf has with the general public. Even the name on the petition is a bit what the public might expect. It's lucky the guy isn't a Colonel.

Golf courses are huge areas of land, that can, and should be used for the benefit of all during the lock down, and not just the selfish few.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			This bold part is exactly t right, but it is not recognised and adhered to by the general public .it isn't emphasised enough by the authorities.
It is the breathing of others expelled air either indoors or being too close together that has spread this virus.
So, on the face of it, playing golf ,  being  outdoors, shouldn't contribute to the problem.
But, it can and does if those playing don't social distance. And from what I've seen at my club there are too many who don't.
Groups all close together talking etc very close, and though outside, it's clear they are breathing each others air.
Thus the virus will spread.
It's a fact that that will happen at all sports gatherings , and this lockdown is a month long severe effort to get the figures down and stop this virus overrunning us.
Not playing golf for a month isn't a lot to ask in the face of our country's problem.
Not going to be a popular opinion, but it is disappointing to see  each particular interest vying  so hard to keep their wishes going, each wanting to be the exception.
I want to play golf as much as the next man, but can't we make an effort for the next month?
		
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Social distancing doesn't need to be as distant, so to speak, outside. Of course you can breathe in someone else's breath but the dose of virus that reaches you outside is more diluted by dispersal than it is inside. It also requires a degree of prolonged contact, and 15 minutes is generally accepted as the time needed, so in my opinion, standing 1 metre away from someone for 5 minutes on the putting green or tee is not a significant risk. 

Anyway, looks like it is banned and I doubt the petition (which I have signed) will change that.


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			This bold part is exactly t right, but it is not recognised and adhered to by the general public .it isn't emphasised enough by the authorities.
It is the breathing of others expelled air either indoors or being too close together that has spread this virus.
So, on the face of it, playing golf ,  being  outdoors, shouldn't contribute to the problem.
But, it can and does if those playing don't social distance. And from what I've seen at my club there are too many who don't.
Groups all close together talking etc very close, and though outside, it's clear they are breathing each others air.
Thus the virus will spread.
It's a fact that that will happen at all sports gatherings , and this lockdown is a month long severe effort to get the figures down and stop this virus overrunning us.
Not playing golf for a month isn't a lot to ask in the face of our country's problem.
Not going to be a popular opinion, but it is disappointing to see  each particular interest vying  so hard to keep their wishes going, each wanting to be the exception.
I want to play golf as much as the next man, but can't we make an effort for the next month?
		
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I think the point most are trying to make is that golf is being thrown in with gyms, leisure centres, bowling alleys and the like, all indoor settings, when nobody, but nobody, has set out any clear scientific reason why golf cannot be perfectly safe. It’s _*that *_which is causing all the angst.

We are, in essence, being told that what we have been doing since May by playing golf has not been safe. Has the science changed since May? No, of course not. I do hear what you’re saying in that the transmission occurs when we breathe in someone else’s exhaled breath, but the risk of aerosol transmission is known to be in indoor, poorly ventilated settings. You can’t get much more ventilated at this time of year than the great British outdoors!

I am absolutely more than happy to follow guidance which is based on a balanced and sound rationale. Whilst I will not play golf for the duration of this lockdown, I am far less happy about it as the underpinning rationale is, according to those in the know, so weak as to be virtually non-existent.

All I really ask, and I think it’s a question we are all entitled to know the answer to, is just why an outdoor sport practiced by small groups is being dealt with in the same way as indoor activities. If someone can provide me with an answer based upon science, not perception or anything else, then I will sit back with a good book until all this is over, and stop worrying about my WHS handicap index.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about Tennis .
Would you not be handling the same balls as your opponent.
Golf is unique where nobody touches your ball or equipment at all.
If were all in it together I can’t see courses staying open.
		
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New balls, please!

The test should be equity of risk, not equity of inconvenience.


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## Lilyhawk (Nov 1, 2020)

I think there should be 70 million individual policies put in place to suit each and everyone in the UK.

Anything less is just lazy and unfair.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Nov 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Not sure about Tennis .
Would you not be handling the same balls as your opponent.
Golf is unique where nobody touches your ball or equipment at all.
If were all in it together I can’t see courses staying open.
		
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Tennis is the game of the Political classes so obviously will stay open....


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 1, 2020)

I’m amazed in a golf forum that some don’t even want to support golf. Do you even like your pro or the staff in the clubhouse? Do you deserve a tee time when it all blows over? 
Mind blowing.


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I’m amazed in a golf forum that some don’t even want to support golf. Do you even like your pro or the staff in the clubhouse? Do you deserve a tee time when it all blows over? 
Mind blowing.
		
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I don't think it's a case of not supporting golf.  I think it's split between some people do as they're told plain and simple and other people dare to stick a foot out and be upset and annoyed and want justification


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## Imurg (Nov 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Over 63k now...going up a couple of hundred every few seconds..
		
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Just about to go over 100k.
A lot of people still want to play...


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Come on everyone, get signing.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851

Click to expand...




Fingers crossed


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			I don't think it's a case of not supporting golf.  I think it's split between some people do as they're told plain and simple and other people dare to stick a foot out and be upset and annoyed and want justification
		
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It's not helped by the blatant contradiction in the new rules. You can meet outside with one other person from another household but you specifically can't play golf with them. My wife can continue to go running with her friend 3 times a week, her friend can go cycling with her sister still, but i can't play golf in 2 balls as i did last time around. That's inconsistent. That is where the grumpiness comes from.


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's not helped by the blatant contradiction in the new rules. You can meet outside with one other person from another household but you specifically can't play golf with them. My wife can continue to go running with her friend 3 times a week, her friend can go cycling with her sister still, but i can't play golf in 2 balls as i did last time around. That's inconsistent. That is where the grumpiness comes from.
		
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I couldn't agree more.  I would find it easier to swallow if they said you can't leave your house for anything other that food for 4 weeks.    But the fact that I can't get in my boat on a 200 acre lake for a day's fishing is crazy when my mates are going on running dates


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I’m amazed in a golf forum that some don’t even want to support golf. Do you even like your pro or the staff in the clubhouse? Do you deserve a tee time when it all blows over?
Mind blowing.
		
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Oh, please. Stop trying to portray yourself as golf’s saviour. 

What I see here is the vast majority of contributors extremely unhappy at what they see as a decision lacking any basis. Many are signing a petition to try and get this revisited and I am sure others will have emailed either EG or their own local golf union. A very small minority have said they will follow the guidance without question, as not to do so shows our sport in a poor light. I understand and respect their stance, although I don’t agree with them.

You are ploughing a lone furrow, saying unequivocally that you will continue to play at your own club, defying government guidelines. By doing so, if this plays out as we all seem to believe it will, you will also be defying EG and your own club’s guidance, as they will doubtless issue instruction that prevents us all playing.

I have read what you have to say. I absolutely understand your wish to play golf. We all share your wish to play the sport we love. But I simply can’t agree that thumbing your nose at everything and everybody is an approach that anyone should adopt.

My view? If you were a member at my club, and you were the only one to defy a closure and continue playing when everyone else respected the decision to shut, even though they are doubtless as opposed to that decision as you are? When things return to normal I would be lobbying the club to have you thrown out.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's not helped by the blatant contradiction in the new rules. You can meet outside with one other person from another household but you specifically can't play golf with them. My wife can continue to go running with her friend 3 times a week, her friend can go cycling with her sister still, but i can't play golf in 2 balls as i did last time around. That's inconsistent. That is where the grumpiness comes from.
		
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How many people need to work, make a journey to ”allow” you to play golf compared to how many need to be there to ”allow” your wife to go running or her friend to go cycling?

We seem to be forgetting the health and well being of those employed by golf courses and their families.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			True
But it’s got 33k + signatures already, if it reaches 100k then it gets debated in parliament.
It’s democracy in action , I obviously don’t agree with the current decision, but if it is upheld, then I will respect it
		
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Now nearly 104k, so should be debated.

As others have said, if the ban stands I'll abide by it, but I cannot see any justification for it.  Clubhouse closure I get, but with an almost negligible risk of transmission, I'd like someone in Government to explain WHY we can't.


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## drdel (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Actually, an effective and brutal lockdown would go some way to eradicate the virus. If it can't propagate, it dies. If it can't transmit, it can't propagate.

Treatments are only part of the answer. Dexa is only useful if you are on oxygenation, and even then the cure rate is modest. Remdesivir is turning out not to be the magic bullet some thought it was, the regeneron antibody cocktail is likewise showing some issues and is very expensive and not scalable. There is no early intervention treatment known to meaningfully reduce the risk of reaching ICU.

Vaccination is the biggest weapon, but current JCVI proposals are to not vaccinate everyone, only those over 50 or care home/NHS workers, and vulnerable people. That leaves a lot of people capable of experiencing serious morbidity uncovered. The policy is clearly still a herd immunity lite (that dare not speak its name) approach.

This thing has a long way to run yet, and Lockdown III is likely in early 2021 after a Christmas shopping/party/kids coming back from Uni surge kicks in.
		
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There is no 'effective lockdown against a pandemic which is present within the international community? Eradication will be only potentially possible with vaccination programmes.

It will depend on the value countries put on life. Notional values vary with age, earning potential and infirmity. There is wide disagreement but an average of about £1.5m is common. It may rise to £4m in some evaluations.

Kidnappers, for example, take a view on what the 'market'  will bear.

Distasteful as it may seem but it comes down to money in the end.

Luckily for us we expect politicians to shoulder that responsibility, which will always be open to criticism. Expecially if the 'life' involved is close socially.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Oh, please. Stop trying to portray yourself as golf’s saviour.

What I see here is the vast majority of contributors extremely unhappy at what they see as a decision lacking any basis. Many are signing a petition to try and get this revisited and I am sure others will have emailed either EG or their own local golf union. A very small minority have said they will follow the guidance without question, as not to do so shows our sport in a poor light. I understand and respect their stance, although I don’t agree with them.

You are ploughing a lone furrow, saying unequivocally that you will continue to play at your own club, defying government guidelines. By doing so, if this plays out as we all seem to believe it will, you will also be defying EG and your own club’s guidance, as they will doubtless issue instruction that prevents us all playing.

I have read what you have to say. I absolutely understand your wish to play golf. We all share your wish to play the sport we love. But I simply can’t agree that thumbing your nose at everything and everybody is an approach that anyone should adopt.

My view? If you were a member at my club, and you were the only one to defy a closure and continue playing when everyone else respected the decision to shut, even though they are doubtless as opposed to that decision as you are? When things return to normal I would be lobbying the club to have you thrown out.
		
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According to our pro, some clubs relatively local to ours were hit with fines for ignoring the last set of rules.  I know how my club would view my ignoring the ban if it cost them a hefty fine, and it wouldn't be fondly.


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## Robster59 (Nov 1, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I would say your attacking the wrong person lead by your personal circumstances. I’ve never needed social interaction nor am I going to get out for any.
I’m going to disregard a rule that most sane people will find arbitrary and other worldly, hit a ball in one of the most covid secure places on earth with a transmission probability of 0.

I will not be limited to just work for x amount of weeks again for people to undo it all again for a Christmas Day get together.
I will play golf during the lockdown  with two four legged friends, because if people can run, cycle or walk for exercise than I can walk with a bag of sticks and balls.
		
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Damn right I see it from a personal viewpoint. Maybe if some of the non conformers had similar circumstances they'd see it differently too. As I type this my stepson is going for a Covid test. Why? His partner has it. Why does she have it?  Because someone where she works had gone into work for three days with symptoms and not told anyone. My stepson got told in work where he works with disadvantaged young people. All those people now potentially infected because of one person.
Most sane people are following the rules. It's those who think the rules don't apply to them, of stretch them to fit their needs because it doesn't suit their personal requirements that are keeping us where we are.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How many people need to work, make a journey to ”allow” you to play golf compared to how many need to be there to ”allow” your wife to go running or her friend to go cycling?

We seem to be forgetting the health and well being of those employed by golf courses and their families.
		
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I think the health and well being of the employees will be better by working, safely, on full pay rather than furloughed on 80%, worried if the course will re-open and kicking their heels at home. No reason for club employees, not non essential, to not be able to work distanced and safely. They would have been doing that for the last 5-8 months anyway


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

drdel said:



			There is no 'effective lockdown against a pandemic which is present within the international community? Eradication will be only potentially possible with vaccination programmes.

It will depend on the value countries put on life. Notional values vary with age, earning potential and infirmity. There is wide disagreement but an average of about £1.5m is common. It may rise to £4m in some evaluations.

Kidnappers, for example, take a view on what the 'market'  will bear.

Distasteful as it may seem but it comes down to money in the end.

Luckily for us we expect politicians to shoulder that responsibility, which will always be open to criticism. Expecially if the 'life' involved is close socially.
		
Click to expand...


That is all true. There was a window when a firm lockdown could have fundamentally changed the course, but that window has gone. I think one of the big tensions is between those who see health outcomes and economic recovery as inextricably linked, and those who seem them as a choice between two competing priorities. I am in the former camp, and the lessons of history support that view. As things stand, we are heading for Lockdown III in the new year, after the intense Christmas retail and party season, with kids back from Uni, results in a further surge of cases in late Dec/early Jan.

Vaccines may start to trickle through soon after, but it will take a while to administer them, specially is the NHS is are in the midst of another surge. 

The NHS does have a system for valuing life, the Quality Adjusted Life Year (QALY), used by NICE. Theoretically this can be used to appraise health and non-health interventions, although it is usually applied narrowly to new medicines. One dimension is based on life years saved or lost, which is based on actuarial life tables, so it applies reducing value with age. A treatment 'saving' a younger person is better value in health economic terms than one saving an older person. The QALY also counts quality of life, so a treatment which doesn't prolong life but can improve quality of life also scores.


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## drdel (Nov 1, 2020)

The  petition is based on misguided thinking.

Allowing 'some' leisure sports will encourage more people to disregard the advice. 

Public policy is always a blunt instrument as some will think they know best and do as they like. This is why the rate is going up and why we all will pay a higher price because of the "I'm alright Jack" and 'give an inch, take a yard' idiots.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the health and well being of the employees will be better by working, safely, on full pay rather than furloughed on 80%, worried if the course will re-open and kicking their heels at home. No reason for club employees, not non essential, to not be able to work distanced and safely. They would have been doing that for the last 5-8 months anyway
		
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Have they? Are all courses the same, have a look back and see just how many moaned about the state of their course due to furlough.

Whether we are biased or not, not all Greenkeeping Staff are essential.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Though one big difference between Christmas and Easter is that the date of Good Friday can and does move 😘
		
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That always amuses me, is it not something to do with the 5 week after super Sunday.
The original Christmas date has more to do with the pagan midwinter feast at equinox.

BTW amusing interpretations of the word 'National' by the UK leaders when it comes to lockdown.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			I’m amazed in a golf forum that some don’t even want to support golf. Do you even like your pro or the staff in the clubhouse? Do you deserve a tee time when it all blows over?
Mind blowing.
		
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But is it mind blowing? I support my golf club, but I also support me mum and dad who are well into the eighties and that takes priority. How many members at clubs are seniors?  How many fall into the vulnerable category. I don’t agree with the closure of golf clubs. But I respect it. And there in lies part of the problem, Throughout the whole of the Covid, people have not respected the rules Because it don’t fit there agenda.


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## Old Skier (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			True
But it’s got 33k + signatures already, if it reaches 100k then it gets debated in parliament.
It’s democracy in action , I obviously don’t agree with the current decision, but if it is upheld, then I will respect it
		
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You missed the small print, CONSIDERED FOR DEBATE.


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## Old Skier (Nov 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I couldn’t agree more.

Instead golf, and similar outdoor activities, have been swept up with the same broom and a blanket ban imposed. EG went to great lengths to get us all playing again in May, and we are effectively now being told that wasn’t safe. I’m not aware of a single case of covid being transmitted in our clubhouse, never mind out on the course.

There is a lot more at stake here than just the virus. Mental and physical well being are incredibly important as well, and yet this announcement, and more specifically the detail of it, just seems rushed with swathes of it lacking any sort of rationale. I greeted the first lockdown with some positivity - if it had to be done for the greater good then so be it. This time round I have a real sense of despair, as though we seem to be learning nothing.
		
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Royal North Devon had a couple of cases, one being the manager


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Over 63k now...going up a couple of hundred every few seconds..
		
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So should go to Government for discussion around December/January time ? Well thought out


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 1, 2020)

I'm not down at my club today but already the seniors are going mental on their discussion group about it.   And I have witnessed pretty much every one of them ignoring all the rules about social distancing over the past few months. I have already stated to them I will support whatever action the club owners and the EGU take and not their selfish me-first attitude.


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## Old Skier (Nov 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Oh, please. Stop trying to portray yourself as golf’s saviour.

What I see here is the vast majority of contributors extremely unhappy at what they see as a decision lacking any basis. Many are signing a petition to try and get this revisited and I am sure others will have emailed either EG or their own local golf union. A very small minority have said they will follow the guidance without question, as not to do so shows our sport in a poor light. I understand and respect their stance, although I don’t agree with them.

You are ploughing a lone furrow, saying unequivocally that you will continue to play at your own club, defying government guidelines. By doing so, if this plays out as we all seem to believe it will, you will also be defying EG and your own club’s guidance, as they will doubtless issue instruction that prevents us all playing.

I have read what you have to say. I absolutely understand your wish to play golf. We all share your wish to play the sport we love. But I simply can’t agree that thumbing your nose at everything and everybody is an approach that anyone should adopt.

My view? If you were a member at my club, and you were the only one to defy a closure and continue playing when everyone else respected the decision to shut, even though they are doubtless as opposed to that decision as you are? When things return to normal I would be lobbying the club to have you thrown out.
		
Click to expand...

I thing his posts are a complete wind up and WHAAA posted just to get a response.  Unless he owns a gold course, there wont be one in the land that will stand by and just let him play and he knows it.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

I signed the petition because I think banning golf is unjustified by science. It won't affect me personally either way because I don't even play golf in the winter, have put my clubs away and probably won't set foot in the club until April 2021, if I survive Covid.

We know that indoors is massively more risky for Covid - Chris Whitty, Jon van Tam and others have said so repeatedly, and data shows that more than 95% of cases arise from indoor contact. Exercise is also important, and even encouraged by Govt, and golf authorities have developed sensible precautions to limit the areas of possible risk, probably with some overkill. Clubs have also managed indoors access with show changing in the car park, one way systems for toilet access and the same dining rules that apply elsewhere. I don't think any objective assessment can argue that golf is really a risk area. These rules should be focussed on indoor activities. The difference between indoors and outdoors isn't too complicated for the averagely intelligent person to comprehend, and The Express can explain it to its readers very carefully. 

Staff need to be protected too, and it seemed to me that during the early days post lockdown, this was working well too. Groundstaff work outdoors mostly, food serving for takeaway is allowed, so no difference there. Pro shops will likely be swept up in the essential shop rules. 

Some of the same applies to other outdoor activities too, and in my opinion, where the risk is minimal and the activity can be adequately 'policed' by staff or volunteers, it should be allowed, whether that is golf, grouse shooting (not that I approve) or something else.

Rules which are rational get better acceptance. Tying the police up trying to throw whatsisname up above off his local course is not a good use of time. They would be better looking for pub lock-ins and house parties.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So should go to Government for discussion around December/January time ? Well thought out
		
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Stop being obtuse, the lockdown measures are being debated and voted on before implementation on Thursday.  It is certainly possible to include amendments in this timeframe.

Although to be fair, I would be very surprised if it passes, but I feel better for making the effort


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## Deleted member 3432 (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Stop being obtuse, the lockdown measures are being debated and voted on before implementation on Thursday.  It is certainly possible to include amendments in this timeframe.

Although to be fair, I would be very surprised if it passes, but I feel better for making the effort
		
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Phil do you not feel guilty of double standards here, on one hand stopping political debate with your moderator hat on and then encouraging people to lobby the government?

I understand we are all frustrated as golfers but what you are doing is a little 'naughty'.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Stop being obtuse, the lockdown measures are being debated and voted on before implementation on Thursday.  It is certainly possible to include amendments in this timeframe.

Although to be fair, I would be very surprised if it passes, but I feel better for making the effort
		
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Do you really think they are going to discuss golf courses in that period based on 30k golfers signing a petition? Nope 

If it gets to 100k then they may discuss in Parliament which won’t be for a couple of months- the petition is pretty childish in the grand scheme of things and adds nothing to the self entitled image that some associate with golf

It’s four weeks during a rubbish weather - I’m sure we can handle it


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

saving_par said:



			Phil do you not feel guilty of double standards here, on one hand stopping political debate with your moderator hat on and then encouraging people to lobby the government?

I understand we are all frustrated as golfers but what you are doing is a little 'naughty'.
		
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Actually, I think there is a critical difference. This petition is non-partisan. Asking the Govt to give Tyrell Hatton a Knighthood for services to golf hoodies would also also non partisan but controversial.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 1, 2020)

If everyone had kept to three simple guidelines we wouldn't be having a lockdown, they never so we are.  If every situation was to be anyalised there would be a multitude of activities where a case could be made to exempt this or that from being banned.   It's just too complicated to make this number of exemptions, people are already asking why the lockdown is being put off by four days, if it had started from this morning then the same people would be complaining that there was not enough notice.  Sign the petition if you feel the need but maybe accept that desperate times need desperate measures sometimes.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			If everyone had kept to three simple guidelines we wouldn't be having a lockdown, they never so we are.  If every situation was to be anyalised there would be a multitude of activities where a case could be made to exempt this or that from being banned.   It's just too complicated to make this number of exemptions, *people are already asking why the lockdown is being put off by four days*, if it had started from this morning then the same people would be complaining that there was not enough notice.  Sign the petition if you feel the need but maybe accept that desperate times need desperate measures sometimes.
		
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Because it needs to be passed by the HoC who are debating it on Weds.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's not helped by the blatant contradiction in the new rules. You can meet outside with one other person from another household but you specifically can't play golf with them. My wife can continue to go running with her friend 3 times a week, her friend can go cycling with her sister still, but i can't play golf in 2 balls as i did last time around. That's inconsistent. That is where the grumpiness comes from.
		
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If I ride my bike can I carry my clubs around the course?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 1, 2020)

MrPing said:



			Got the wife a Porsche boxter we just usually share a car cause i do any work from home and wife only works a few hours in the morning but cause she’s moaning about constantly dropping me off at golf at 7am had to get a second car. This golf is costly 😂
		
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You are very fortunate...many folks are now finding themselves out of work and having to live on not much more than £10,000 a year...some much less - though I am sure you are aware of that 👍


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That always amuses me, is it not something to do with the 5 week after super Sunday.
The original Christmas date has more to do with the pagan midwinter feast at equinox.

BTW amusing interpretations of the word 'National' by the UK leaders when it comes to lockdown.
		
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There are ongoing discussions between the various Christian Faith's to agree a common date for Easter as per Christmas. Unfortunately it is going at the pace you might expect, each having to refer back to their own council, too many parties etc so don't go expecting a fixed date soon.

I have a relative currently on the c of e synod and I moan about this to her every Easter 😄


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## Imurg (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really think they are going to discuss golf courses in that period based on 30k golfers signing a petition? Nope

If it gets to 100k then they may discuss in Parliament which won’t be for a couple of months- the petition is pretty childish in the grand scheme of things and adds nothing to the self entitled image that some associate with golf

It’s four weeks during a rubbish weather - I’m sure we can handle it
		
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Well it's reached 126k and still rising..
Just out of interest...should the Govt back down on this, will you be playing during November.?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If I ride my bike can I carry my clubs around the course?
		
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You can if you keep to the paths 😁. Unfortunately you can't get off your bike to whack a ball though 😔


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Well it's reached 126k and still rising..
Just out of interest...should the Govt back down on this, will you be playing during November.?
		
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If the course is open and we can play then yes I would play - why wouldn’t i ?


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## SocketRocket (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There are ongoing discussions between the various Christian Faith's to agree a common date for Easter as per Christmas. Unfortunately it is going at the pace you might expect, each having to refer back to their own council, too many parties etc so don't go expecting a fixed date soon.

I have a relative currently on the c of e synod and I moan about this to her every Easter 😄
		
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Wasn't that decided by the Synod of Whitby in the seventh century? (Or thereabouts)


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can if you keep to the paths 😁. Unfortunately you can't get off your bike to whack a ball though 😔
		
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Polo golf?


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

saving_par said:



			Phil do you not feel guilty of double standards here, on one hand stopping political debate with your moderator hat on and then encouraging people to lobby the government?

I understand we are all frustrated as golfers but what you are doing is a little 'naughty'.
		
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Short answer, no
But you are welcome to disagree

It isn’t my petition, just making people aware of its existence 👍


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## SocketRocket (Nov 1, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Polo golf?

Click to expand...

Could be Water Polo Golf looking at the weather.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 1, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			I thing his posts are a complete wind up and WHAAA posted just to get a response.  Unless he owns a gold course, there wont be one in the land that will stand by and just let him play and he knows it.
		
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Providing I have my dogs with me, alone and stick to the back nine away from the road and access through the public right of way, no issues from the land owner. 

I thought my response to fish when I said I will be recognised people may of got the jist without saying I play with so and so.


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## bobmac (Nov 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Well it's reached 126k and still rising..
Just out of interest...should the Govt back down on this, will you be playing during November.?
		
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No way


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Well it's reached 126k and still rising..
Just out of interest...should the Govt back down on this, will you be playing during November.?
		
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Not sure it will change things this time.
But what it might do is make rule makers think differently for future lockdowns.
I can see others coming even next summer.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Well it's reached 126k and still rising..
Just out of interest...should the Govt back down on this, will you be playing during November.?
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			If the course is open and we can play then yes I would play - why wouldn’t i ?
		
Click to expand...

And there’s me being accused of double standards 😂😂


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Could be Water Polo Golf looking at the weather.
		
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Bit more air in the tyres.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			And there’s me being accused of double standards 😂😂
		
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Where is the double standards ?


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

This is interesting Transmission indoors


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where is the double standards ?
		
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Post 338


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

This just reminds me that we assume the general public thinks golfers are all Bentley owning rich land owners.
In reality it’s played by the general public .
Might be an education matter that needs to change this preconceived view.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Post 338
		
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? I meant my double standards?


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? I meant my double standards?
		
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Well being against the petition, but willing to benefit from it is a good starting point👍


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			This is interesting Transmission indoors

Click to expand...

I saw that yesterday - really interesting read.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

Kaz said:



			If golf didn’t have such a massive image problem it’d be a no brainier to allow it to continue in the lockdown. But as it stands it is completely untenable for the government to exempt it. Political suicide.

Golf as an industry and golfers in general would be better advised to just accept this rather than damage that image even further and bring more unwanted attention.
		
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The flip side is .
It might be a good opportunity to show people it’s a working mans/ woman’s game.
But wouldn’t fancy that brief.
But you are correct atm it’s just not on.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

The worst thing about lockdown? 
The whingers and whiners , jeez give it a rest.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Did you all get your egu email? If you're in England obviously 😏


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Wasn't that decided by the Synod of Whitby in the seventh century? (Or thereabouts)
		
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I don't know to be honest. I'm not religious  but moving Easter every year could come into random irritations for me so I have an annual, jokey, whinge to my relative. Last time I asked it was the Greek Orthodox church that was holding it up 😯


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Well being against the petition, but willing to benefit from it is a good starting point👍
		
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Benefit from it ?! So anyone who doesn’t sign it etc can’t play golf if EG speak to the government and golf can still be played ! 

It’s laughable that’s there is any belief a petition will make a difference


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			The worst thing about lockdown?
The whingers and whiners , jeez give it a rest.
		
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I beg your pardon? I thought a forum was somewhere where people could come to discuss opinions.

My mistake, obviously.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 1, 2020)

Even if the courses were open would they really fall under "essential travel?".

Not many who live close enough to walk from home and carry their clubs to the first tee...


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I beg your pardon? I thought a forum was somewhere where people could come to discuss opinions.

My mistake, obviously.
		
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Discuss sure, but i am already seeing the classic lines from last lockdown. Telling people not to drive as they might breakdown etc ,all the usual crap.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Dear fellow golfers,

Having digested the Prime Minister’s statement to the nation on Saturday night and read the guidance which followed, there is an element of confusion around the government’s stated intention to close down golf courses and facilities from Thursday 5 November.

As a result of this, and with the health of the nation very much at the heart of my thinking, I would like to make clear England Golf’s intention to respectfully challenge the government’s rationale for closing golf courses.

We will do so utilising all in our network - MPs, colleagues, media and friends - to make sure we are heard by government.

Listening to the Prime Minister, the news that he is actively encouraging safe and responsible outdoor exercise for households or two individuals pointed to our great game of golf being at the heart of this policy.

The guidance which followed stating that golf courses were on a list of venues which should close, therefore, appeared contradictory and came out of the blue.

At no point was England Golf - as the governing body for the amateur game of golf in this country - consulted about this decision.

Of course, we fully recognise and accept the need to suppress the virus to save lives and protect the NHS.

Throughout the pandemic England Golf has endeavoured to act with authority, knowledge, understanding and extreme diligence. At all times we have placed the health and wellbeing of our communities as a priority.

For this and many reasons, it is our sincere belief that it is counter-productive to shut down a healthy pursuit which naturally lends itself to social distancing and is played in a Covid-secure manner in the open air.

Golf returned on 13 May this year following the first national lockdown as an extension of outdoor recreation.

We achieved this after presenting a unified golf industry (All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf) strategy paper that not only outlined a “return to play” roadmap beyond reproach, but which was heralded as best practice for many other sports to reference!

Our (England Golf’s) 'Play Safe, Stay Safe' guidance was endorsed by government, adopted by golf clubs and is now ingrained in the minds of all golfers.

With safe and responsible exercising being encouraged by government during the second period of national lockdown, it seems incongruous to call for golf courses to now close.

Golf is widely acknowledged as a game which is good for the body and soul, with outstanding research reiterating its benefits for the older generation recently shared by The R&A.

But even without a research paper, the physical benefits of exercising in the open air are obvious and known to all.

In the current situation, the psychological gains from being able to enjoy a social and safe form of outdoor activity, enjoying a temporary release from the pressures of everyday life probably outweigh the physical.

I’m aware from the numbers who have signed a national petition that a great many golfers around the country share this belief.

To be clear, I was also very happy to sign this petition.

Alongside our colleagues in the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf (APPGG) we will pro-actively continue dialogue with government challenging the current position hard, but with great reason, to allow golf courses to remain open for play (in some format) from Thursday.

I truly believe this would not, in any way, undermine the huge public health efforts that are going on in the country during these times.

Golf, in fact, can help us get through this terrible pandemic and be stronger for it once we emerge on the other side.

I wish good health to you and your families. Please continue to stay safe.

Kind regards


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Discuss sure, but i am already seeing the classic lines from last lockdown. Telling people not to drive as they might breakdown etc ,all the usual crap.
		
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It is a little Groundhog Day, I’ll grant you.


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Dear fellow golfers,

Having digested the Prime Minister’s statement to the nation on Saturday night and read the guidance which followed, there is an element of confusion around the government’s stated intention to close down golf courses and facilities from Thursday 5 November.

As a result of this, and with the health of the nation very much at the heart of my thinking, I would like to make clear England Golf’s intention to respectfully challenge the government’s rationale for closing golf courses.

We will do so utilising all in our network - MPs, colleagues, media and friends - to make sure we are heard by government.

Listening to the Prime Minister, the news that he is actively encouraging safe and responsible outdoor exercise for households or two individuals pointed to our great game of golf being at the heart of this policy.

The guidance which followed stating that golf courses were on a list of venues which should close, therefore, appeared contradictory and came out of the blue.

At no point was England Golf - as the governing body for the amateur game of golf in this country - consulted about this decision.

Of course, we fully recognise and accept the need to suppress the virus to save lives and protect the NHS.

Throughout the pandemic England Golf has endeavoured to act with authority, knowledge, understanding and extreme diligence. At all times we have placed the health and wellbeing of our communities as a priority.

For this and many reasons, it is our sincere belief that it is counter-productive to shut down a healthy pursuit which naturally lends itself to social distancing and is played in a Covid-secure manner in the open air.

Golf returned on 13 May this year following the first national lockdown as an extension of outdoor recreation.

We achieved this after presenting a unified golf industry (All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf) strategy paper that not only outlined a “return to play” roadmap beyond reproach, but which was heralded as best practice for many other sports to reference!

Our (England Golf’s) 'Play Safe, Stay Safe' guidance was endorsed by government, adopted by golf clubs and is now ingrained in the minds of all golfers.

With safe and responsible exercising being encouraged by government during the second period of national lockdown, it seems incongruous to call for golf courses to now close.

Golf is widely acknowledged as a game which is good for the body and soul, with outstanding research reiterating its benefits for the older generation recently shared by The R&A.

But even without a research paper, the physical benefits of exercising in the open air are obvious and known to all.

In the current situation, the psychological gains from being able to enjoy a social and safe form of outdoor activity, enjoying a temporary release from the pressures of everyday life probably outweigh the physical.

I’m aware from the numbers who have signed a national petition that a great many golfers around the country share this belief.

To be clear, I was also very happy to sign this petition.

Alongside our colleagues in the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf (APPGG) we will pro-actively continue dialogue with government challenging the current position hard, but with great reason, to allow golf courses to remain open for play (in some format) from Thursday.

I truly believe this would not, in any way, undermine the huge public health efforts that are going on in the country during these times.

Golf, in fact, can help us get through this terrible pandemic and be stronger for it once we emerge on the other side.

I wish good health to you and your families. Please continue to stay safe.

Kind regards
		
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Absolute common sense. From first word until last.


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 1, 2020)

So it seems as though every sport, activity, trade, retail organisation and man&dog is trying to find a reason why they should be exempt from the lockdown.   "Yes it's terrible the death toll and infection rate and yes the Government has to do something about it but leave us alone and deal with everyone else".   Wheel out said representative, famous sports star or so-called personality to further the cause and sit back and let the apparent public sympathy take its course.   Golf of course is not exempt in this and as a golf forum, I understand it is going to be just a tad biased in this regard.  But the media is absolutely full of everyone claiming they should be exempt through whatever loophole they can find.

And therein lies one of the major problems for the position the country now finds itself in.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 1, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			So it seems as though every sport, activity, trade, retail organisation and man&dog is trying to find a reason why they should be exempt from the lockdown.   "Yes it's terrible the death toll and infection rate and yes the Government has to do something about it but leave us alone and deal with everyone else".   Wheel out said representative, famous sports star or so-called personality to further the cause and sit back and let the apparent public sympathy take its course.   Golf of course is not exempt in this and as a golf forum, I understand it is going to be just a tad biased in this regard.  But the media is absolutely full of everyone claiming they should be exempt through whatever loophole they can find.

And therein lies one of the major problems for the position the country now finds itself in.
		
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I agree although have sympathy for businesses and employees losing revenue/wages. Golf is a hobby and it's just a hobby I need to shelve until it's available to me again. In the big scheme of things it really is no biggy...Therefore "I'm out" (when it comes to petition signing)!!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 1, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			I agree although have sympathy for businesses and employees losing revenue/wages. Golf is a hobby and it's just a hobby I need to shelve until it's available to me again. In the big scheme of things it really is no biggy...Therefore "I'm out" (when it comes to petition signing)!!
		
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Get that guitar out again!


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 1, 2020)

The different hospitality businesses in Scotland do themselves no favours by each blaming the 'other' for not being strict enough during the last measures.
I think most of us know that they were all at it.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			It is a little Groundhog Day, I’ll grant you.
		
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Add to this the self righteous chumps who tell us how they'll be forgoing all enjoyment and hiding under a rock and complain when the rest of us aren't locking down hard enough
😂😂😂 when in reality we're doing as we've been asked.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			So it seems as though every sport, activity, trade, retail organisation and man&dog is trying to find a reason why they should be exempt from the lockdown.   "Yes it's terrible the death toll and infection rate and yes the Government has to do something about it but leave us alone and deal with everyone else".   Wheel out said representative, famous sports star or so-called personality to further the cause and sit back and let the apparent public sympathy take its course.   Golf of course is not exempt in this and as a golf forum, I understand it is going to be just a tad biased in this regard.  But the media is absolutely full of everyone claiming they should be exempt through whatever loophole they can find.

And therein lies one of the major problems for the position the country now finds itself in.
		
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It really isn't. Ignoring the rules and seeking exemptions based on observable facts are quite different. The risk of transmission outdoors is an order of magnitude lower than indoors. Fact. If golf, crown green bowling or bog snorkelling can demonstrate plausibly that their sport is safe, then there is no reason to prohibit them in order to satisfy people who suffer from concrete thinking and can only see all sport banned or permitted.

Simplistic rules which include elements which make little sense or are unjustified tend to get ignored, and that in turn drives a culture of ignoring other rules which should be observed, and the whole thing is corrosive. That happened with the last lockdown.

I am arguing in favour of golf being allowed, and I have no intention of playing either way.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2020)

I'm all for putting a case forward for golf 

If they decide it's safe happy days 

If not respect the decision 

That's my position


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## Backache (Nov 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			I'm all for putting a case forward for golf

If they decide it's safe happy days

If not respect the decision

That's my position
		
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Agree completely I don't think personally that golf represents a risk and would prefer it allowed as indeed it is where I live in Scoltand.
However people are highly immitative and if some are seen to be breaking the rules it encourages others. 
I think as few a number of rules as possible whilst encouraging strict adherence is the way to go but I will be adhering to whatever is in place.


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Because it needs to be passed by the HoC who are debating it on Weds.
		
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I think he knows that, as most of us do. That doesn't stop the stirrers though.
It was put as an example of how people do/say anything to stir against measures we all don't like but see as necessary.

The data is frightening the beejesus out of the modellers of what is to come.
That is why it is a sharp, hard shock for a month to , frankly, try to keep people apart for that time .
You are right about indoors being  the big problem, but I don't buy your optimism about outdoors mixing.
Inasmuch that I have seen quite a lot of outdoor mixing at my club , mostly societies of which there are many, (the club being based on outside business, ),that I wouldn't want to be a part of.- several all up close in animated conversations where there is breath exchange -in corridors, on verandas etc, technically outdoors but enclosed on most sides. Buggy sharing supposedly same household?  -a joke.
So called nominal compliance with rules, but you do wonder if the guys realise there is a virus.
I agree you are right about very low risk if outdoors SD is practiced as you describe it should be, but I think it isn't. As someone earlier said, " give an inch and they take a mile"


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I think he knows that, as most of us do. That doesn't stop the stirrers though.
It was put as an example of how people do/say anything to stir against measures we all don't like but see as necessary.

The data is frightening the beejesus out of the modellers of what is to come.
That is why it is a sharp, hard shock for a month to , frankly, try to keep people apart for that time .
You are right about indoors being  the big problem, but I don't buy your optimism about outdoors mixing.
Inasmuch that I have seen quite a lot of outdoor mixing at my club , mostly societies of which there are many, (the club being based on outside business, ),that I wouldn't want to be a part of.- several all up close in animated conversations where there is breath exchange -in corridors, on verandas etc, technically outdoors but enclosed on most sides. Buggy sharing supposedly same household?  -a joke.
So called nominal compliance with rules, but you do wonder if the guys realise there is a virus.
I agree you are right about very low risk if outdoors SD is practiced as you describe it should be, but I think it isn't. As someone earlier said, " give an inch and they take a mile"
		
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It is the opinion of Chris Whitty, Patrick Vallance and SAGE that the risk is considerably higher indoors, so whether true or not (and it is obviously true) and should be a basis for Govt policy. They just need to enact that policy. Making the rule of 6 apply outside and well as inside was absurd and ended only for the sort of utter idiots who ignore it anyway.

Precisely the same outdoors mixing you describe can occur at Tesco, outside the local chip shop or anywhere else.

Edit: Indoor spread


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 1, 2020)

MrPing said:



			Got the wife a Porsche boxter we just usually share a car cause i do any work from home and wife only works a few hours in the morning but cause she’s moaning about constantly dropping me off at golf at 7am had to get a second car. This golf is costly 😂
		
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...sorry for my earlier comment.  Not appropriate...I was in a bad place at the time ☹️


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 1, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Now nearly 104k, so should be debated.

As others have said, if the ban stands I'll abide by it, but I cannot see any justification for it.  Clubhouse closure I get, but with an almost negligible risk of transmission, I'd like someone in Government to explain WHY we can't.
		
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The justification surely is that each and _every_ situation that involves any form of social mingling and interaction has an associated transmission risk.  And so for four weeks if we only do those things that we *must *do then the cumulative risk in the community is minimised as much as possible.  It does not matter that the risk of transmission in the context of golf is considered small - it exists - and it does not take that many individuals to catch the virus in a golf context for that to result in a community transmission.  

Every little counts so i think that the least that we golfers can do to help cut transmission in our communities is to put down our clubs for a month.  It’s not actually a lot to ask of us compared with the sacrifices made and being made by very many others.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The justification surely is that each and _every_ situation that involves any form of social mingling and interaction has an associated transmission risk.  And so for four weeks if we only do those things that we *must *do then the cumulative risk in the community is minimised as much as possible.  It does not matter that the risk of transmission in the context of golf is considered small - it exists - and it does not take that many individuals to catch the virus in a golf context for that to result in a community transmission. 

Every little counts so i think that the least that we golfers can do to help cut transmission in our communities is to put down our clubs for a month.  It’s not actually a lot to ask of us compared with the sacrifices made and being made by very many others.
		
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if the only things on the able to do list were musts then this would make sense, but clearly thats not the case


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## Papas1982 (Nov 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



*The justification surely is that each and every situation that involves any form of social mingling and interaction has an associated transmission risk*.  And so for four weeks if we only do those things that we *must *do then the cumulative risk in the community is minimised as much as possible.  It does not matter that the risk of transmission in the context of golf is considered small - it exists - and it does not take that many individuals to catch the virus in a golf context for that to result in a community transmission. 

Every little counts so i think that the least that we golfers can do to help cut transmission in our communities is to put down our clubs for a month.  It’s not actually a lot to ask of us compared with the sacrifices made and being made by very many others.
		
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True, but they have said you can meet one other person for exercise. 

Should have left that open for Al sports jmo but closed indoor facilities. 

So you Could kick a footy to a mate, play tennis outside etc


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			if the only things on the able to do list were musts then this would make sense, but clearly thats not the case
		
Click to expand...

...and so if there is deemed to be an acceptable level of cumulative risk in any community or sector of the economy - a level that is deemed acceptable in the context of keeping the economy moving - then when that level cannot accommodate the total risk associated with ALL activities continuing, then some activities will ‘win’ out whilst others will lose out. They might look similar or seem to have similar associated risk - but the cumulativevrisk of them all continuing is just too high.

That aside I fully agree with those many on here who ask us to consider the perception of golf held in the wider community and how an ‘entitled‘ and ‘wealthy’ group seeking special consideration and exemptions will look.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



*The justification surely is that each and every situation that involves any form of social mingling and interaction has an associated transmission risk. * And so for four weeks if we only do those things that we *must *do then the cumulative risk in the community is minimised as much as possible.  It does not matter that the risk of transmission in the context of golf is considered small - it exists - and it does not take that many individuals to catch the virus in a golf context for that to result in a community transmission. 

Every little counts so i think that the least that we golfers can do to help cut transmission in our communities is to put down our clubs for a month.  It’s not actually a lot to ask of us compared with the sacrifices made and being made by very many others.
		
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So ban all outdoor mingling for exercise then.  Sorted.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

been up to the tits in it and just got In and just checked  me emails and had this from our club secretary. Now Ave not been through the last 6 pages.
But are they deffo shut or what 😳🤔

Dear Tash

We are still awaiting a definitive answer as to whether Golf Courses can remain open, as soon as we have this answer we will be in touch


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## Old Skier (Nov 1, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			been up to the tits in it and just got In and just checked  me emails and had this from our club secretary. Now Ave not been through the last 6 pages.
But are they deffo shut or what 😳🤔

Dear Tash

We are still awaiting a definitive answer as to whether Golf Courses can remain open, as soon as we have this answer we will be in touch
		
Click to expand...

The definitive answer until or if it changes is Golf courses are shut


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## Old Skier (Nov 1, 2020)

I’m not sure why everyone is getting all hot and bothered about courses being closed. EG is on the case, all sports body’s are making representations tomorrow and by the end of the week we will all know one way or other.

If it’s yes your open, go out and get wet.
if it’s no your closed, give your waterproofs a rest.

If your that desperate to take exercise in the rain, go for a walk.


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## KenL (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Actually, an effective and brutal lockdown would go some way to eradicate the virus. If it can't propagate, it dies. If it can't transmit, it can't propagate. 

Treatments are only part of the answer. Dexa is only useful if you are on oxygenation, and even then the cure rate is modest. Remdesivir is turning out not to be the magic bullet some thought it was, the regeneron antibody cocktail is likewise showing some issues and is very expensive and not scalable. There is no early intervention treatment known to meaningfully reduce the risk of reaching ICU. 

Vaccination is the biggest weapon, but current JCVI proposals are to not vaccinate everyone, only those over 50 or care home/NHS workers, and vulnerable people. That leaves a lot of people capable of experiencing serious morbidity uncovered. The policy is clearly still a herd immunity lite (that dare not speak its name) approach. 

This thing has a long way to run yet, and Lockdown III is likely in early 2021 after a Christmas shopping/party/kids coming back from Uni surge kicks in.
		
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Yes, a FULL lockdown would do as required.  But, everyone is still in education (millions of people) and millions of essential workers will still be out there.
Even more significant is the millions of people who clearly cannot AKA are not willing to follow the rules.


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

KenL said:



			Yes, a FULL lockdown would do as required.  But, everyone is still in education (millions of people) and millions of essential workers will still be out there.
Even more significant is the millions of people who clearly cannot AKA are not willing to follow the rules.
		
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Sure, but degrees of lockdown would achieve proportional effects. The basic premise that it is impossible to control the virus is wrong. The question is what balance do you want to achieve between control and so-called normal life. I think the proposed lockdown is in broad terms reasonable enough, but it should have happened a few weeks ago.


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## KenL (Nov 1, 2020)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The different hospitality businesses in Scotland do themselves no favours by each blaming the 'other' for not being strict enough during the last measures.
I think most of us know that they were all at it.
		
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In my experience (as someone who goes out and supports local business) they were not ALL at it.  I felt far more at risk in Asda or my work than I ever did in a pub or restaurant.
That may well be a locality thing.  Perhaps areas like Glasgow and Lanarkshire took liberties as that is where the main problems lie.  House to house was always said to be the main issue too, not hospitality.


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## KenL (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Sure, but degrees of lockdown would achieve proportional effects. The basic premise that it is impossible to control the virus is wrong. The question is what balance do you want to achieve between control and so-called normal life. I think the proposed lockdown is in broad terms reasonable enough, but it should have happened a few weeks ago.
		
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But is it right to control those of us who are willing to comply and allow those who aren't to do whatever they like?


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

KenL said:



			But is it right to control those of us who are willing to comply and allow those who aren't to do whatever they like?
		
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That is a false dichotomy, though. The rules are designed (whether well or not) to protect individuals from others as well as from themselves. Personal responsibility is all fine and dandy but who gives people the right to do something that will lead to the consumption of tens of thousands of pounds of healthcare and interfere with other people who need treatment?. The right balance is achieved by timely application of undertandable rules which address the issues that matter.


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## Old Skier (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			That is a false dichotomy, though. The rules are designed (whether well or not) to protect individuals from others as well as from themselves. Personal responsibility is all fine and dandy but who gives people the right to do something that will lead to the consumption of tens of thousands of pounds of healthcare and interfere with other people who need treatment?. The right balance is achieved by timely application of undertandable rules which address the issues that matter.
		
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Reading some posts on here, rules are there to see if some people can come up with a good reason to ignore/change them


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Reading some posts on here, rules are there to see if some people can come up with a good reason to ignore/change them 

Click to expand...

It is fine to seek exemptions for whatever it may be, so long as you live by the verdict. People should follow the rules. Egregious violations, such as large social gatherings in Covid hot spots should be dealt with severely. More minor breaches should be dealt with proportionately, but politicians of all parties should act as role models and be religiously compliant.


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The justification surely is that each and _every_ situation that involves any form of social mingling and interaction has an associated transmission risk.  And so for four weeks if we only do those things that we *must *do then the cumulative risk in the community is minimised as much as possible.  It does not matter that the risk of transmission in the context of golf is considered small - it exists - and it does not take that many individuals to catch the virus in a golf context for that to result in a community transmission. 

Every little counts so i think that the least that we golfers can do to help cut transmission in our communities is to put down our clubs for a month.  It’s not actually a lot to ask of us compared with the sacrifices made and being made by very many others.
		
Click to expand...

Well said, particularly the last sentence


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## Old Skier (Nov 1, 2020)

Ethan said:



			It is fine to seek exemptions for whatever it may be, so long as you live by the verdict. People should follow the rules. Egregious violations, such as large social gatherings in Covid hot spots should be dealt with severely. More minor breaches should be dealt with proportionately, but politicians of all parties should act as role models and be religiously compliant.
		
Click to expand...

Using others faults and violations as an excuse to follow suit is no excuse IMO whatever their standing in society.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Seems to be a clamour from some to get schools closed too. I hope they do stay open,  already tough to catch up from the previous lockdown


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## Ethan (Nov 1, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Using others faults and violations as an excuse to follow suit is no excuse IMO whatever their standing in society.
		
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Those who make the rules should follow them. Their behaviour inevitably gives example, rightly or wrongly.


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## Del_Boy (Nov 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You are very fortunate...many folks are now finding themselves out of work and having to live on not much more than £10,000 a year...some much less - though I am sure you are aware of that 👍
		
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Those on not much more than £10k probably feel very fortunate when compared to those that are penniless and/or homeless


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## Del_Boy (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Benefit from it ?! So anyone who doesn’t sign it etc can’t play golf if EG speak to the government and golf can still be played !

It’s laughable that’s there is any belief a petition will make a difference
		
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I’m not laughing.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Reading some posts on here, rules are there to see if some people can come up with a good reason to ignore/change them 

Click to expand...

These week Mansfield has gone from proposed stage 2, to a late stage 3 to Total lockdown. The cameras have been knocking about this week and everyone has had There say. Including the village idiots. One guy was interviewed, he openly admitted he had gone out of the area to have a beer and go to the betting shops. He was informed he had broken the law. His response was “ well laws are there to be broken innnit”. 
Irrespective of whoever is in charge, there are people out there who know the rules and blatantly disregard them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2020)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ieves-from-covid-ban-government-boris-johnson


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

larmen said:



			It has to be one rule for all sports. They can’t just do one for Archery, Basketball, Cricket, ... , Zumba, and expecting nobody to get confused.
		
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No it doesn't, which is good. There are plenty of outdoor sports that can be played safely.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 1, 2020)

I find the whole thing quite bizarre. There are far more dangerous things than golf but they are deemed essential.

Either we lockdown completely or not at all.


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## Reemul (Nov 1, 2020)

Well fishing looks like it will be allowed so my son and I shall sit by the lake in a nice bivvy with hot drinks and chatting and reading for 8 hours rather than golfing for 3.5 for the next month unless it is raining.


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## Reemul (Nov 1, 2020)

Also anyone hearing anything about moving house. We have sold ours and bought another, mortgages are through, at the survey and removals stage, hoping to be in just before or after Xmas but no idea what the hell is going on really.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Also anyone hearing anything about moving house. We have sold ours and bought another, mortgages are through, at the survey and removals stage, hoping to be in just before or after Xmas but no idea what the hell is going on really.
		
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Couple of "estate agent industry" websites are reporting that you can still go ahead (you could through first lockdown), waiting to see the detail in the next couple of days personally (assuming youve not exchanged obviously you still have choices/options). Will no doubt become clearer as to what the exact rules are next 48 hrs but would take advice from your conveyancing solicitor (were in a similar spot having agreed a sale and waiting to exchange)


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Well fishing looks like it will be allowed so my son and I shall sit by the lake in a nice bivvy with hot drinks and chatting and reading for 8 hours rather than golfing for 3.5 for the next month unless it is raining.
		
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Good shout , I'll have to dust off my gear.


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## Reemul (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Couple of "estate agent industry" websites are reporting that you can still go ahead (you could through first lockdown), waiting to see the detail in the next couple of days personally (assuming youve not exchanged obviously you still have choices/options). Will no doubt become clearer as to what the exact rules are next 48 hrs but would take advice from your conveyancing solicitor (were in a similar spot having agreed a sale and waiting to exchange)
		
Click to expand...

We lost our buyer 2 weeks ago, he was a Cineworld Manager, anyways we have a new buyer with a mortgage already in place, their survey is tomorrow, all our searches etc are in place and have received our mortgage offer. Not exchanged but we do not want to lose the hosue as My sister and Mother in law live 30 seconds away and means there is a lot of local support for them especially in the current climate and hosues do not come up that often in this road (Fingers crossed)


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## rulefan (Nov 1, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Well fishing looks like it will be allowed so my son and I shall sit by the lake in a nice bivvy with hot drinks and chatting and reading for 8 hours rather than golfing for 3.5 for the next month unless it is raining.
		
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What's a little rain if you've got fresh air, good company and a big umbrella. I gather golf clubs sell them.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Reemul said:



			We lost our buyer 2 weeks ago, he was a Cineworld Manager, anyways we have a new buyer with a mortgage already in place, their survey is tomorrow, all our searches etc are in place and have received our mortgage offer. Not exchanged but we do not want to lose the hosue as My sister and Mother in law live 30 seconds away and means there is a lot of local support for them especially in the current climate and hosues do not come up that often in this road (Fingers crossed)
		
Click to expand...


fingers crossed for you

were chain breaking so planning on taking a rental, approx 150 miles from where we are currently (to be closer to my wifes family, we were planning on doing just before the first lockdown!), due to exchange any day soon on our sale but this weekends announcements potentially thrown things back up in the air, hard to evaluate the logistics of what shouldve been relatively straightforward with no lockdown and then xmas


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 1, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Well fishing looks like it will be allowed so my son and I shall sit by the lake in a nice bivvy with hot drinks and chatting and reading for 8 hours rather than golfing for 3.5 for the next month unless it is raining.
		
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Well, not wanting to bust your bubble, but unless something has come up lately, you may be wrong. 
If it comes under " outdoor leisure activities " its banned. The Gov website doesn't specify it, as it does golf clubs and ranges, but by any standard of English it is an outdoor leisure activity.
Maybe there will be specific mention in the papers going through HoC.
Hope you have the chance to get a "tight line"


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Well, not wanting to bust your bubble, but unless something has come up lately, you may be wrong. 
If it comes under " outdoor leisure activities " its banned. The Gov website doesn't specify it, as it does golf clubs and ranges, but by any standard of English it is an outdoor leisure activity.
Maybe there will be specific mention in the papers going through HoC.
Hope you have the chance to get a "tight line"
		
Click to expand...

How do you stop it? We have a few free fishing areas round here. I can just go to one of those.


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## CliveW (Nov 2, 2020)

Promising news...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ieves-from-covid-ban-government-boris-johnson


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## SocketRocket (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			How do you stop it? We have a few free fishing areas round here. I can just go to one of those.
		
Click to expand...

It's easy to break the rules (Law) if you are that kind of person.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 2, 2020)

Honest to goodness.  Just heard that the Sunday Times reported yesterday that the 'NHS' App has had a sensitivity setting incorrectly set and that as a result thousands will have not been contacted by Track & Trace... been known for a month apparently.  Ah well - the lockdown gives T&T time to catch up...ah - but they can't as the individuals wouldn't have been identified by the App and logged with T&T...

I also learnt, and simply point out for those who are not aware and ask for no discussion - that our vaccine task force is headed by a venture capitalist who has no experience in vaccines and is married to a conservative minister...I'm sorry but...oh yes - last week that task force head disclosed officially sensitive documents to a conference in the states.   I make no comment other than point that out.

But we might reasonably ask why many of the public have considered the exhortations of our leaders to comply with rules with something approaching contempt - and so we are where we are - and why should the attitude in much of the public towards compliance change *as it must* if we are to get out of this terrible situation.

Desperate situation I fear - and extended lockdown looming...


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## SaintHacker (Nov 2, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I also learnt, and simply point out for those who are not aware and ask for no discussion - that our vaccine task force is headed by a venture capitalist who has no experience in vaccines and is married to a conservative minister...I'm sorry but...oh yes - last week that task force head disclosed officially sensitive documents to a conference in the states.   I make no comment other than point that
		
Click to expand...

Well if that isnt a political post i dont know what is...


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			It's easy to break the rules (Law) if you are that kind of person.
		
Click to expand...

Is fishing against the law?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 2, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Well if that isnt a political post i dont know what is...
		
Click to expand...

It's a *fact *not an opinion - and for information - and background information that might help explain why so many don't bother with the rules and *why the current lockdown might be extended - *and the lockdown is the subject of this thread.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Is fishing against the law?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, if it's banned by the Covid rules.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Yes, if it's banned by the Covid rules.
		
Click to expand...

OK, so you dont know.

But I do know so we're all good.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 2, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Where did you hear this?
		
Click to expand...

The App
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ailed-to-warn-users-to-self-isolate-6tzstqnr9
The task Force Head
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-shared-uk-plans-with-private-firms-rtlzrz8v5
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...quit-sharing-secret-government-documents.html


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Where did you hear this?
		
Click to expand...

Also post #10364 in the Coronavirus thread.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			OK, so you dont know.

But I do know so we're all good.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I do. If the rules ban it then it becomes illegal. You suggested you had a way to break the rules.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Yes I do. If the rules ban it then it becomes illegal. You suggested you had a way to break the rules.
		
Click to expand...

OK, you didnt understand what was being said. I'll leave it there.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The App
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...ailed-to-warn-users-to-self-isolate-6tzstqnr9
The task Force Head
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-shared-uk-plans-with-private-firms-rtlzrz8v5
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...quit-sharing-secret-government-documents.html

Click to expand...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a-statement-regarding-kate-bingham-and-the-vaccine-taskforce

The qualifications of the head of the vaccine task force from the above link;

Kate Bingham is uniquely qualified for the role of Chair, having worked in the biotech and life sciences sectors for 30 years. While not specifically a vaccines expert, she is a proven drugs discovery expert with superb deal-making skills and an excellent global reputation, recently appearing alongside Bill Gates at the Gates Grand Challenge Conference. She is well known and highly rated by multinational pharmaceutical and vaccine companies. She has a first class degree in Biochemistry from the University of Oxford, an MBA from Harvard Business School (Baker Scholar) and is a board member of the Francis Crick Institute. Her investments have led to the launch of six drugs for the treatment of patients with inflammatory and autoimmune disease and cancer. Kate stepped back from her full-time role as Managing Partner at SV Health Investors to take on this role as Chair of the Taskforce, for which she is unpaid.
Under her leadership of the Vaccine Taskforce, in the past six months:

Britain has struck agreements to buy 350m doses of vaccine: these involve the six leading candidates under development including the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines.
The VTF has reached in principle agreement with AstraZeneca to supply a neutralising antibody cocktail as a prophylactic treatment once clinical trials are completed and it is approved by regulators.
300,000 people have enrolled in a national registry expressing their interest to take part in clinical trials to accelerate the development of a successful vaccine.
The UK is pioneering controlled human challenge studies, dependent on ethics and regulatory approvals, to assess and accelerate the development of effective vaccines more quickly and with far fewer participants than a standard phase 3 trial.
The Vaccine Taskforce has provided funding in several UK sites to manufacture vaccine to cover the UK population.
The UK has committed to ensuring that everyone at risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection, anywhere in the world, has access to a safe and effective vaccine, and has donated £500m to the Covax international vaccine-sharing initiative to enable this.
The VTF has launched a series of podcasts on Amazon and Spotify with experts discussing all key aspects of vaccine development to help inform the public about what to expect from COVID-19 vaccines, in addition to extensive media interviews and conference appearances.
An article detailing the achievements of the Vaccine Taskforce was published in The Lancet last week.
Mods, I didn't consider this political, merely a resume of the CV of the head of the Vaccine Task Force.  If it is considered political I apologise.


----------



## Imurg (Nov 2, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a-statement-regarding-kate-bingham-and-the-vaccine-taskforce

The qualifications of the head of the vaccine task force from the above link;

Kate Bingham is uniquely qualified for the role of Chair, having worked in the biotech and life sciences sectors for 30 years. While not specifically a vaccines expert, she is a proven drugs discovery expert with superb deal-making skills and an excellent global reputation, recently appearing alongside Bill Gates at the Gates Grand Challenge Conference. She is well known and highly rated by multinational pharmaceutical and vaccine companies. She has a first class degree in Biochemistry from the University of Oxford, an MBA from Harvard Business School (Baker Scholar) and is a board member of the Francis Crick Institute. Her investments have led to the launch of six drugs for the treatment of patients with inflammatory and autoimmune disease and cancer. Kate stepped back from her full-time role as Managing Partner at SV Health Investors to take on this role as Chair of the Taskforce, for which she is unpaid.
Under her leadership of the Vaccine Taskforce, in the past six months:

Britain has struck agreements to buy 350m doses of vaccine: these involve the six leading candidates under development including the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines.
The VTF has reached in principle agreement with AstraZeneca to supply a neutralising antibody cocktail as a prophylactic treatment once clinical trials are completed and it is approved by regulators.
300,000 people have enrolled in a national registry expressing their interest to take part in clinical trials to accelerate the development of a successful vaccine.
The UK is pioneering controlled human challenge studies, dependent on ethics and regulatory approvals, to assess and accelerate the development of effective vaccines more quickly and with far fewer participants than a standard phase 3 trial.
The Vaccine Taskforce has provided funding in several UK sites to manufacture vaccine to cover the UK population.
The UK has committed to ensuring that everyone at risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection, anywhere in the world, has access to a safe and effective vaccine, and has donated £500m to the Covax international vaccine-sharing initiative to enable this.
The VTF has launched a series of podcasts on Amazon and Spotify with experts discussing all key aspects of vaccine development to help inform the public about what to expect from COVID-19 vaccines, in addition to extensive media interviews and conference appearances.
An article detailing the achievements of the Vaccine Taskforce was published in The Lancet last week.
Mods, I didn't consider this political, merely a resume of the CV of the head of the Vaccine Task Force.  If it is considered political I apologise.
		
Click to expand...

Wait...What?
You mean she's not actually making the stuff..?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a-statement-regarding-kate-bingham-and-the-vaccine-taskforce

The qualifications of the head of the vaccine task force from the above link;

Kate Bingham is uniquely qualified for the role of Chair, having worked in the biotech and life sciences sectors for 30 years. While not specifically a vaccines expert, she is a proven drugs discovery expert with superb deal-making skills and an excellent global reputation, recently appearing alongside Bill Gates at the Gates Grand Challenge Conference. She is well known and highly rated by multinational pharmaceutical and vaccine companies. She has a first class degree in Biochemistry from the University of Oxford, an MBA from Harvard Business School (Baker Scholar) and is a board member of the Francis Crick Institute. Her investments have led to the launch of six drugs for the treatment of patients with inflammatory and autoimmune disease and cancer. Kate stepped back from her full-time role as Managing Partner at SV Health Investors to take on this role as Chair of the Taskforce, for which she is unpaid.
Under her leadership of the Vaccine Taskforce, in the past six months:

Britain has struck agreements to buy 350m doses of vaccine: these involve the six leading candidates under development including the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines.
The VTF has reached in principle agreement with AstraZeneca to supply a neutralising antibody cocktail as a prophylactic treatment once clinical trials are completed and it is approved by regulators.
300,000 people have enrolled in a national registry expressing their interest to take part in clinical trials to accelerate the development of a successful vaccine.
The UK is pioneering controlled human challenge studies, dependent on ethics and regulatory approvals, to assess and accelerate the development of effective vaccines more quickly and with far fewer participants than a standard phase 3 trial.
The Vaccine Taskforce has provided funding in several UK sites to manufacture vaccine to cover the UK population.
The UK has committed to ensuring that everyone at risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection, anywhere in the world, has access to a safe and effective vaccine, and has donated £500m to the Covax international vaccine-sharing initiative to enable this.
The VTF has launched a series of podcasts on Amazon and Spotify with experts discussing all key aspects of vaccine development to help inform the public about what to expect from COVID-19 vaccines, in addition to extensive media interviews and conference appearances.
An article detailing the achievements of the Vaccine Taskforce was published in The Lancet last week.
Mods, I didn't consider this political, merely a resume of the CV of the head of the Vaccine Task Force.  If it is considered political I apologise.
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic, but what about the point she’s telling them all over 50’s will have been offered a Vaccine by Easter?

Should that not be headline news over here?


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Fantastic, but what about the point she’s telling them all over 50’s will have been offered a Vaccine by Easter?

Should that not be headline news over here?
		
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It’s only headline news if the editors deem it so, and that will depend on the editors’ agenda.


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Is fishing against the law?
		
Click to expand...

Are you being deliberately  obtuse or on a wind up.?
If fishing is classed as an outdoor leisure activity and is going to be banned from Thursday under the new Covid restrictions, why your daft comment ?
You are likely showing yourself up here as someone who suggests it is OK to do as he pleases regardless of Covid rules .


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Are you being deliberately  obtuse or on a wind up.?
If fishing is classed as an outdoor leisure activity and is going to be banned from Thursday under the new Covid restrictions, why your daft comment ?
You are likely showing yourself up here as someone who suggests it is OK to do as he pleases regardless of Covid rules .
		
Click to expand...

you'll need to point me to where it says outdoor lesiure activities are to be banned...


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## SocketRocket (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			OK, you didnt understand what was being said. I'll leave it there.
		
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I understood it alright.


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## SteveJay (Nov 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Are you being deliberately  obtuse or on a wind up.?
If fishing is classed as an outdoor leisure activity and is going to be banned from Thursday under the new Covid restrictions, why your daft comment ?
You are likely showing yourself up here as someone who suggests it is OK to do as he pleases regardless of Covid rules .
		
Click to expand...

But it isn't likely to be banned. The Angling Trust have already confirmed having consulted with government, that it is OK. The issue is the mode of transport - driving to a venue may be the questionable aspect, just as has been stated about travelling to golf courses earlier. 
The guidance is certainly if you can walk or cycle then you can still go. Fishing tackle shops, whilst having to close to customers, are apparently allowed to offer click and collect services. One local one in the NW has already posted that it will do just that from Thursday.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 2, 2020)

Looks like Scotland will have to accept lockdown or they will have furlough monies denied if they are needed later.
Crazy situation.
Criminal waste of money.


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			you'll need to point me to where it says outdoor lesiure activities are to be banned...
		
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This is on the www.gov.uk website and is part of the restrictions
"
To reduce social contact, the Government has ordered certain businesses and venues to close. These include:


all non-essential retail, including, but not limited to clothing and electronics stores, vehicle showrooms, travel agents, betting shops, auction houses, tailors, car washes, tobacco and vape shops.
*indoor and outdoor leisure facilities such as bowling alleys, leisure centres and gyms, sports facilities including swimming pools, golf courses and driving ranges, dance studios, stables and riding centres, soft play facilities, climbing walls and climbing centres, archery and shooting ranges, water and theme parks,"*
As I said, unless something has changed in respect of fishing, then it comes within this definition, does it not?.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			This is on the www.gov.uk website and is part of the restrictions
"
To reduce social contact, the Government has ordered certain businesses and venues to close. These include:


all non-essential retail, including, but not limited to clothing and electronics stores, vehicle showrooms, travel agents, betting shops, auction houses, tailors, car washes, tobacco and vape shops.
*indoor and outdoor leisure facilities such as bowling alleys, leisure centres and gyms, sports facilities including swimming pools, golf courses and driving ranges, dance studios, stables and riding centres, soft play facilities, climbing walls and climbing centres, archery and shooting ranges, water and theme parks,"*
As I said, unless something has changed in respect of fishing, then it comes within this definition, does it not?.


Click to expand...

That mentions nothing about banning activities, which is what you stated.


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## IanM (Nov 2, 2020)

Look you, I've just had a sniff that Welsh Golf _could _resume on MONDAY!!!!!!   Tidy there's lovely, isn't it!  

With the previous travel bans, I haven't played my own home course (cos it was across county boundary) since 5th Sept!    Mind you... 2 weeks of monsoon and who knows if it'll open!


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			That mentions nothing about banning activities, which is what you stated.
		
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Yes, I can see they are different words, but
are we into semantics here?  The fishing lakes, ponds, etc I would have considered to be facilities for fishing, 
 unless they were clearly owned by no-one.
However, if places like rivers are not considered facilities, how would the environment agency think of them. ..?I would imagine they would consider them facilities provided by themselves and/or riparian owners. After all, they tel us that the licence fees are spent on maintaining and thus providing them?

Then, if you are right in your distinction, you can have someone fishing OK on a non club/non fishing business owned lake, but a club member cannot fish on a club run lake or fishing business lake?


And , again on the subject of definitions of facilities,do you suppose ,that whilst
Golf clubs are clearly facilities, if you were to go hitting golf balls in the local park or on the common, that you would not be breaking the rule?.

I see someone has said that fishing , as we know it😀, has been cleared, since this latest announcement, by the Angling Trust. Where can that be verified.Id be grateful for a pointer


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			That mentions nothing about banning activities, which is what you stated.
		
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What  do you think Fishing comes under.?
All my mates say it’s a sport.
Personally I think outwitting a fish can’t be that hard


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

IanM said:



			Look you, I've just had a sniff that Welsh Golf _could _resume on MONDAY!!!!!!   Tidy there's lovely, isn't it! 

With the previous travel bans, I haven't played my own home course (cos it was across county boundary) since 5th Sept!    Mind you... 2 weeks of monsoon and who knows if it'll open!
		
Click to expand...

I hope Boris bans all the Welsh crossing the border.
I could not go into Wales ,so hope there’s no double standards.


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			What  do you think Fishing comes under.?
All my mates say it’s a sport.
Personally I think outwitting a fish can’t be that hard

Click to expand...

Oh, I wouldn't say that😀. It's generally agreed that coarse fish are harder to fool and catch than game fish, especially carp. ( not looking to start a war!)
A real oddity is, a salmon can be caught and it doesn't feed at all when going up the river. 
Many a carp fisherman has spent days trying to catch, and failed.


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## IanM (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			I hope Boris bans all the Welsh crossing the border.
I could not go into Wales ,so hope there’s no double standards.

Click to expand...

There's no need for "people who live in Wales " to enter England if courses in England are shut and courses in Wales are open 😁

My nearest decent shops however are in Bristol!😆


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Oh, I wouldn't say that😀. It's generally agreed that coarse fish are harder to fool and catch than game fish, especially carp. ( not looking to start a war!)
A real oddity is, a salmon can be caught and it doesn't feed at all when going up the river.
Many a carp fisherman has spent days trying to catch, and failed.
		
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Only joking.
My mate is a really good angler (according to him).
Been on sky sports several times.
We always had a good laugh wether hitting a little ball into a hole or outwitting a fish took the most skill.
We used to have lulls in work on nights!


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## BiMGuy (Nov 2, 2020)

Wouldn't going fishing or to golf be an unnecessary journey? Whether you drive, cycle walk or hop there?


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## Fish (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Personally I think outwitting a fish can’t be that hard

Click to expand...

🤔


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## SocketRocket (Nov 2, 2020)

IanM said:



			There's no need for "people who live in Wales " to enter England if courses in England are shut and courses in Wales are open 😁

My nearest decent shops however are in Bristol!😆
		
Click to expand...

Cribs?


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## SocketRocket (Nov 2, 2020)

IanM said:



			There's no need for "people who live in Wales " to enter England if courses in England are shut and courses in Wales are open 😁

My nearest decent shops however are in Bristol!😆
		
Click to expand...


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 2, 2020)

We're going in to a national lockdown until Dec 2nd because the regional Tier system isn't working. And the exit strategy for the national lockdown is to return to a regional Tier system. You know, the one that wasn't working meaning we needed a national lockdown. Anyone else spot a teensy tiny problem with this plan?


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## SaintHacker (Nov 2, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			We're going in to a national lockdown until Dec 2nd because the regional Tier system isn't working. And the exit strategy for the national lockdown is to return to a regional Tier system. You know, the one that wasn't working meaning we needed a national lockdown. Anyone else spot a teensy tiny problem with this plan?
		
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Not really, they've just been too slow at making decisions, again. Had they brought in a circuit break at the start of the second wave  i think the tier system would then have worked. As it is we now need at least a month to get things back under control, then the tier system should be effective


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			We're going in to a national lockdown until Dec 2nd because the regional Tier system isn't working. And the exit strategy for the national lockdown is to return to a regional Tier system. You know, the one that wasn't working meaning we needed a national lockdown. Anyone else spot a teensy tiny problem with this plan?
		
Click to expand...

It's a plan?  Thanks for pointing that out, I'd missed it.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 2, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Not really, they've just been too slow at making decisions, again. Had they brought in a circuit break at the start of the second wave  i think the tier system would then have worked. As it is we now need at least a month to get things back under control, then the tier system should be effective
		
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Was working in Liverpool after it went into Tier 3 restrictions. Cases are now almost half what they were at the peak.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 2, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's *a plan*?  Thanks for pointing that out, I'd missed it.
		
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A cunning one. It's as cunning as a fox that has a degree in cunning from the cunning university.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 2, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			A cunning one. It's as cunning as a fox that has a degree in cunning from the cunning university.
		
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I think one of your consonants is incorrect in the repeated word...


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

If golf was open for those who worry about justifying travel .. the gov says this ..

Travel to venues that are open are fine 

So nobody feel bad wherever you go that's legally open 

Let's avoid the stupid arguements of last time that we shouldn't drive incase we crash ..


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 33280


If golf was open for those who worry about justifying travel .. the gov says this ..

Travel to venues that are open are fine

So nobody feel bad wherever you go that's legally open

Let's avoid the stupid arguements of last time that we shouldn't drive incase we crash ..
		
Click to expand...


Sorry but my levels of Faux outrage and indignation are already at fever pitch 😂😂


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## SocketRocket (Nov 2, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			We're going in to a national lockdown until Dec 2nd because the regional Tier system isn't working. And the exit strategy for the national lockdown is to return to a regional Tier system. You know, the one that wasn't working meaning we needed a national lockdown. Anyone else spot a teensy tiny problem with this plan?
		
Click to expand...

You are correct it's not working  but why is it not working. I would suggest not due to the plan but due to people not adhering to the plan.  If people decide to do as they want then no plan can succeed, so let's level the blame where it's deserved.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

I was all for circuit breakers but looks like the shipped sailed unfortunately as the natural 1 week break with say this week off aswell for kids would have done them zero harm then back to normal until Xmas, Feb half term, Easter, may etc 2 week one for each 

I almost expect circuit breakers on them now it's shown to work in other countries 

With a carrot of Xmas and boxing day to meet up with one other house or something 

I don't care about the political part of this so please if people want to debate that don't . Just what I'd personally like to see to hopefully get back to some kind of normal


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			You are correct it's not working  but why is it not working. I would suggest not due to the plan but due to people not adhering to the plan.  If people decide to do as they want then no plan can succeed, so let's level the blame where it's deserved.
		
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It looks as though it was working in Liverpool. Maybe should have given it more time before deciding that it wasn't working.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 3, 2020)

I got a feeling I will barely notice this lockdown. One kid in 6th form, one kid at uni. (Mix of online and classroom) both carrying on. Construction industry not stopping at all, cafes etc still doing takeaway, Supermarkets still open. I stopped playing Golf as it’s too dark and claggy so I am just carrying on as normal!


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I got a feeling I will barely notice this lockdown. One kid in 6th form, one kid at uni. (Mix of online and classroom) both carrying on. Construction industry not stopping at all, cafes etc still doing takeaway, Supermarkets still open. I stopped playing Golf as it’s too dark and claggy so I am just carrying on as normal!
		
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You and me both. Working as normal and only thing missing is golf at the weekend. I'd potentially go to the range one evening in the week and play at weekends but as you say it's wet and claggy out there so not a big loss and it may do the course some good to have a rest


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 4, 2020)

Well - with figures today of nearly 500 deaths and 25,000 new positive tests - I don’t know...but it is really worrying to me how fast numbers seem to be climbing and so not sure what alternative there would have been to the lockdown starting midnight.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 4, 2020)

Well it's causing arguments at my place already.... 

Before lockdown I was going to see my bro every other weekend (support bubble). 

Inlaws not too pleased I intend to do one trip this month. If girls see him then it means they can't see the kids. 

They seemed to miss the point that their other 4 grandparents won't be sseing the girls either.....


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## robinthehood (Nov 4, 2020)

Lots of old bill about tonight, I guess to clear the streets of all the revelers. Pubs, restaurants etc all busy.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 4, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well - with figures today of nearly 500 deaths and 25,000 new positive tests - I don’t know...but it is really worrying to me how fast numbers seem to be climbing and so not sure what alternative there would have been to the lockdown starting midnight.
		
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But you've been worrying for months. It is sad and yes there is a degree of the unknown again to control the spread but I at least where I am there is no imminent threat to the ICU beds and ventilators. My question will be how much of these deaths as we move into Winter are down to underlying co-morbidities. What are the ages as well?


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## Fish (Nov 5, 2020)

It's a half-hearted lockdown at best, if at all!

No different in traffic whether on local roads or motorways, in fact, today was the busiest this week!!

Same old bottle necks and hot spots, school runs looked worse, kids gathered everywhere as they spilled out, parents parking where they liked, on yellows, zigzags and opposite each other making the road so narrow, it caused a more dangerous scenario than it should!!

In the first lockdown I had the roads to myself, mainly commercial vehicles on all roads with a dusting of cars, it was mayhem out there today, where they all driving to?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 5, 2020)

Fish said:



			It's a half-hearted lockdown at best, if at all!

No different in traffic whether on local roads or motorways, in fact, today was the busiest this week!!

Same old bottle necks and hot spots, school runs looked worse, kids gathered everywhere as they spilled out, parents parking where they liked, on yellows, zigzags and opposite each other making the road so narrow, it caused a more dangerous scenario than it should!!

In the first lockdown I had the roads to myself, mainly commercial vehicles on all roads with a dusting of cars, it was mayhem out there today, where they all driving to?
		
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Click and collect shops open 

Schools open 

Builders allowed to work 

Construction work continuing

It's a completely different type of lockdown 

Shielding not a thing this time 

So more people able to drive


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2020)

They are going to 

Shops
work
Schools 
Construction Sites 
Exercise 

It’s lockdown lite with the pubs and restaurants shut plus we can’t play sport 

Well the PM did say the lockdown “automatically” stops on the 2nd Dec and everything reverts back to what though ? The situation you were in before


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## Tashyboy (Nov 5, 2020)

could anyone remind me when the lockdown starts coz Ave dropped kids off at school popped round to parents on the way home to see there ok and looking at the roads, nowts Changed.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			could anyone remind me when the lockdown starts coz Ave dropped kids off at school popped round to parents on the way home to see there ok and looking at the roads, nowts Changed.
		
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That’s because everyone’s dropping kids off and visiting family.


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## USER1999 (Nov 5, 2020)

Actually, they have.

Last night it took my colleagues 35 minutes to get to Staples corner. I went South on the A5, cut through B and Q, and shuffled back to Brent Cross. I got to the M1 in 18 minutes.

It is less than a mile.

Today, turned North on the A5, and was on the M1 in 5 minutes.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2020)

Definitely plenty of cars on the road today and it really didn't have the feel of a lockdown in any guise. Didn't go to the shops so can't say how busy they are and whether the shelves have been cleared - that's Saturdays delight


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2020)

Much quieter at the Quay and seafront today compared to yesterday


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## Old Skier (Nov 5, 2020)

Who’s stupid idea was it to keep DIY stores open


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## Fade and Die (Nov 5, 2020)

Pointless exercise. Working in Westminster and Battersea today, traffic terrible, hoards of kids waiting at bus stops, long queues outside every coffee shop and food shop, it was actually hard to see any shops that were closed. I even saw a dog groomers/doggy day care open! providing "essential" dog sitting services I suppose!


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Pointless exercise. Working in Westminster and Battersea today, traffic terrible, hoards of kids waiting at bus stops, long queues outside every coffee shop and food shop, it was actually hard to see any shops that were closed. I even saw a dog groomers/doggy day care open! providing "essential" dog sitting services I suppose!
		
Click to expand...

Dog sitting services far more essential than takeaway beer from a pub, general construction etc  imho


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

went into town about 4:20pm to pick up contact lenses from optician.  And our normally busy town centre was quiet.


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## Fade and Die (Nov 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			Dog sitting services far more essential than takeaway beer from a pub, general construction etc  imho
		
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I think there are enough loopholes for everyone to carry on as normal really. (apart from the leisure industry) Government wants to have its cake and eat it. "Everyone needs to stop at home to halt the Virus but also everyone carry on going to work, spending money and paying taxes."


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## fundy (Nov 5, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I think there are enough loopholes for everyone to carry on as normal really. (apart from the leisure industry) Government wants to have its cake and eat it. "Everyone needs to stop at home to halt the Virus but also everyone carry on going to work, spending money and paying taxes." 

Click to expand...

depends on your choices to some extent but yes its a glorified hospitality lockdown for sure. assuming the science proves thats where the spread is then thats fine, however, if youve not shutdown where the majority of new cases are coming from then its very different situation

one things for sure, guidance is utterly pointless for a large proportion currently and rules need to black or white not grey if they want to have any chance of enforcing them


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## Fade and Die (Nov 5, 2020)

fundy said:



			depends on your choices to some extent but yes its a glorified hospitality lockdown for sure. assuming the science proves thats where the spread is then thats fine, however, if youve not shutdown where the majority of new cases are coming from then its very different situation

*one things for sure, guidance is utterly pointless for a large proportion currently and* *rules need to black or white not grey if they want to have any chance of enforcing them*

Click to expand...


Agree, It all seems a bit half hearted this time.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 5, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			could anyone remind me when the lockdown starts coz Ave dropped kids off at school popped round to parents on the way home to see there ok and looking at the roads, nowts Changed.
		
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😂😂 you sound like the women on the beach during the last lockdown,moaning about everyone else being on the beach in lockdown 🤦‍♂️


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Who’s stupid idea was it to keep DIY stores open
		
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A garden centre I went to recently up Bagshot way you could hardly get into it as the whole entrance hall/atrium was crammed with Christmas stuff and folks were going in, stopping and browsing - and trying to get through was a mare as the staff were not moving folks on - well they wouldn't as they idea was that you saw saw immediately you went in and were enticed to buy.  Not going near it during lockdown...and after if I can help it.


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## Reemul (Nov 5, 2020)

No offence but the rush hour is always kids drop off in the morning, why would that change today, all kids still going in. Additionally those working from home and parked outside their houses instead of travelling to work within the school drop off area makes it worse but by 9.30am it was a lot quieter.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 6, 2020)

The schools being back has defo changed people's attuide this lockdown.

Last time everyone was very laid back, hoping the world would stay this way. Nice to everyone etc 

Now I'm sitting on our bed with the twins and it's bin day

All I can hear is car horns out the window as people try and go round the bin lorry 

Worlds still in a rush


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## Tashyboy (Nov 6, 2020)

Pin-seeker said:



			😂😂 you sound like the women on the beach during the last lockdown,moaning about everyone else being on the beach in lockdown 🤦‍♂️
		
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Am sure I could of let my grandkids aged 5 and 7 walk the seven miles to school. Then left two folk aged 84 and 82 for another day. Another positive forum post. 👍


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 6, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Am sure I could of let my grandkids aged 5 and 7 walk the seven miles to school. Then left two folk aged 84 and 82 for another day. Another positive forum post. 👍
		
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Yeah Tashy & no one else are out doing essential things are they?? 🙄


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## User62651 (Nov 6, 2020)

Is it not the case that if people dont take the England lockdown seriously now it will almost for certain be extended beyond 2nd Dec to even Christmas despite what PM says - he'll get round the 2nd Dec deadline by making Tier 3 the same as current lockdown and placing everywhere in that Tier 3 but claim lockdown ended on 2nd. Given the furlough extension to spring seems Govt are already thinking that way.
After 2nd Dec majority (rather than current minority) disobedience will follow no matter how many are dying daily, people will take their chances.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 6, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Is it not the case that if people dont take the England lockdown seriously now it will almost for certain be extended beyond 2nd Dec to even Christmas despite what PM says - he'll get round the 2nd Dec deadline by making Tier 3 the same as current lockdown and placing everywhere in that Tier 3 but claim lockdown ended on 2nd. Given the furlough extension to spring seems Govt are already thinking that way.
After 2nd Dec majority (rather than current minority) disobedience will follow no matter how many are dying daily, people will take their chances.
		
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yup but as already been decided by some, everyone is taking the lockdown seriously.
That aside I don’t get the “ we’re coming out of the semi lockdown on Dec 2nd”. What happens if there is more deaths on Dec 2nd than there was yesterday. Seems a very bold statement indeed.


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## Imurg (Nov 6, 2020)

maxfli65 said:



			Is it not the case that if people dont take the England lockdown seriously now it will almost for certain be extended beyond 2nd Dec to even Christmas despite what PM says - he'll get round the 2nd Dec deadline by making Tier 3 the same as current lockdown and placing everywhere in that Tier 3 but claim lockdown ended on 2nd. *Given the furlough extension to spring seems Govt are already thinking that way.*
After 2nd Dec majority (rather than current minority) disobedience will follow no matter how many are dying daily, people will take their chances.
		
Click to expand...

We came out of Lockdown back in June/July. The furlough scheme carried on as not everyone was able to go back to work.
Same applies here.
We exit Lockdown 2nd December into the Tier system.
Many who are currently off work can go back, but not all can.
So the scheme is extended...


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## pauljames87 (Nov 6, 2020)

Imurg said:



			We came out of Lockdown back in June/July. The furlough scheme carried on as not everyone was able to go back to work.
Same applies here.
We exit Lockdown 2nd December into the Tier system.
Many who are currently off work can go back, but not all can.
So the scheme is extended...
		
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Plus allows for any future lock downs in new year


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## Fish (Nov 7, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Pointless exercise. Working in Westminster and Battersea today, traffic terrible, hoards of kids waiting at bus stops, long queues outside every coffee shop and food shop, it was actually hard to see any shops that were closed. I even saw a dog groomers/doggy day care open! providing "essential" dog sitting services I suppose!
		
Click to expand...

I can normally come up from Mitcham to the Royal Free in about an hour, choosing one of three bridges to cross and taking various routes dependant on what hold ups I can see ahead, took me 1.5 hours on Tuesday, not too bad, but took over 2hrs today, and that was doing some dodgy turns here & there. 

Even in lockdown Park Lane is a joke now, single lane with a huge bus/coach & bike lanes that are empty!! 

As for Bank, I just try to avoid anywhere near there now.


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## Hobbit (Nov 7, 2020)

Interesting to see people complaining that DIY shops and garden centres are rammed... and they know this because they were there... 

Maybe the finger pointing they are doing needs to be done in front of a mirror. Just saying...


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## Fish (Nov 7, 2020)

Golf courses open from next weekend 😎

https://external-preview.redd.it/vx...bp&s=db7685262e9b352a4888e547f52a244e2ea2cb9f


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## Fade and Die (Nov 7, 2020)

Fish said:



			I can normally come up from Mitcham to the Royal Free in about an hour, choosing one of three bridges to cross and taking various routes dependant on what hold ups I can see ahead, took me 1.5 hours on Tuesday, not too bad, but took over 2hrs today, and that was doing some dodgy turns here & there.

Even in lockdown Park Lane is a joke now, single lane with a huge bus/coach & bike lanes that are empty!!

As for Bank, I just try to avoid anywhere near there now.
		
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I've been going to the Royal Free (In Hampstead) for the last 7 weeks since my wife had a Liver Transplant and the traffic is normally horrendous and Hampstead High St is normally packed with people, I am going there tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how it is now we are in "Lockdown"


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## Fish (Nov 7, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I've been going to the Royal Free (In Hampstead) for the last 7 weeks since my wife had a Liver Transplant and the traffic is normally horrendous and Hampstead High St is normally packed with people, I am going there tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how it is now we are in "Lockdown"
		
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Not much different, unfortunately.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 7, 2020)

Traminator said:



			We should have a Thursday 8pm round of applause every week for all the Handicap Secretaries dealing with WHS.
		
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am gonna paint a rainbow golf ball in honour of them 👍

The WHS will get me through this pandemic, not the NHS. 🤔😳🥴


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## SocketRocket (Nov 7, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I've been going to the Royal Free (In Hampstead) for the last 7 weeks since my wife had a Liver Transplant and the traffic is normally horrendous and Hampstead High St is normally packed with people, I am going there tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how it is now we are in "Lockdown"
		
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Hope she improving mate 👍


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 8, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			am gonna paint a rainbow golf ball in honour of them 👍

The WHS will get me through this pandemic, not the NHS. 🤔😳🥴
		
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Can't you do something that lasts more than three holes?


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## Tashyboy (Nov 8, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Can't you do something that lasts more than three holes?   

Click to expand...

😂😉


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 12, 2020)

So that's a week...and its a bit harder this time as we can't do lovely early evening walks into the countryside when we go for our 'essentials' shop...but hey - my lot is better than that of very many.


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## ExRabbit (Nov 13, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So that's a week...and its a bit harder this time as we can't do lovely early evening walks into the countryside when we go for our 'essentials' shop...but hey - my lot is better than that of very many.
		
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I had the - 'wow, it's only a week into lockdown 2' - thought earlier today too.

I think that the fact that we had no date when we were going to come out of lockdown last time actually made it easier for some of us.

This time, as well as the poorer weather, we are also counting down the days - but some of us (Lancashire etc.) still expect to be in a bad tier level anyway just after, so not much difference, just a prolonged state. Hopefully the lockdown will reduce the tier status beforehand, but I'm not expecting it before mid-December.


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