# Florida school shooting



## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2018)

world-us-canada-43066226

The 18th school shooting in America this year. There's only been 45 days of the year to date... madness


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## NWJocko (Feb 14, 2018)

Right to bear arms 

Tragic again, brings back bad memories but the regularity of this sort of thing in America is so sad.


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## Imurg (Feb 15, 2018)

You do have to wonder what it would take to make America change its stance on gun control.
If 18 shootings in schools this year isn't doing it, what the hell will?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2018)

Imurg said:



			You do have to wonder what it would take to make America change its stance on gun control.
If 18 shootings in schools this year isn't doing it, what the hell will?
		
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Nothing. Apparently the answer is more guns.

It's shameful, what you would expect in a lawless third world country.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 15, 2018)

It's just the depressing familiarity of it all.  You could literally cut and paste the responses/tweets/news report to this from the previous ones.  And I know that there are massive cultural differences between us and the US when it comes to guns, but when you see people saying the answer to this is to arm teachers and have more armed guards in schools then you do despair a bit. It's as if they seem to have given up on any idea of restricting the access to assault weapons and want to recreate an old wild west shootout in schools.


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## GMC1981 (Feb 15, 2018)

If only the students who got shot had guns then this wouldnâ€™t have happened .


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## Dan2501 (Feb 15, 2018)

How many more of these need to happen before the US start to do something about it? Yet another teenager committing a mass atrocity with an AR-15. I sort of get the whole right to bear arms thing from a self defence perspective, but I don't understand how so many people with mental illnesses and that are on SSRI's seem to be able gain fairly easy access to a semi-automatic assault rifle. It's ludicrous. Why do civilian Americans need to own these guns?


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## Captainron (Feb 15, 2018)

It amazes me as to how stupid the American Government are about gun laws. It's an absolute sham. With the Don in charge this situation is not going to change and these sorts of attack will continue.

18!! This year? 18!!! What the actual?

This sort of thing happens once in a blue moon over here and even then we all look back with huge amounts of sadness and regret and then actions are taken to tighten the ownership laws (although I know this won't stop an attack it massively reduces the potential).

I honestly don't understand how any parent can send their kids off to school without a small amount of fear.


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## bobmac (Feb 15, 2018)

GMC1981 said:



			If only the students who got shot had guns then this wouldnâ€™t have happened .
		
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No smiley so I presume you're being serious?
I hope not


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## Dan2501 (Feb 15, 2018)

18's pretty good for the US. This time last year there had been more mass shootings than days.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 15, 2018)




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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2018)

Itâ€™s all about the money - the government , senators etc wonâ€™t change a thing because the gun companies â€œdonateâ€ millions each year - itâ€™s a billion dollar business that has too much power and no one has the balls or backing to stand up to it and change it. No one is surprised anymore when it happens and each time it does a portion of the blame is at the country itself and the way the â€œright to bear armsâ€ has such a big say in the country. Feel sorry for the people in the country that suffer these loses - hopefully they will start to do something about it but I donâ€™t expect so


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## Lincoln Quaker (Feb 15, 2018)

18th this year in a school.

Just shocking, Will the USA ever totally wake up to the crazy gun laws they have.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2018)

A senator has said that it is no coincidence that the shootings do not happen any where else in the world.
 There was a statistic out after the Las Vegas Shootings that there are more mass Shootings In America each year than there are are servicemen killed. How's that right, what kind of free world is America trying to save or create.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 15, 2018)

Dan2501 said:








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They seem to do a lot of praying in the US.  Not sure how that's working out when it comes to stopping these events.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2018)

https://www.facebook.com/washingtondcpress/videos/1889926824373004/


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2018)

Live by the gun, die by the gun

Very strange that so many of these shootings effect the young throughout the years.  You'd have thought by now that they would have grown up to insist that a serious review of the gun laws was introduced. You can blame the senators as much as your like but if the action doesn't come from the people nothing will happen.

I have two mate who lives in Florida and even trying to argue with a Brit over there that people only carry weapons because they intend to use them gets you know where.


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## Lazkir (Feb 15, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.facebook.com/washingtondcpress/videos/1889926824373004/

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Unbelievable! Poor kids.


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## sawtooth (Feb 15, 2018)

1 school shooting a week on average since 2013!!

Stupid American government when will they learn.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2018)

Another sad aspect of this, apart from the obvious, is that today will see a spike in gun sales in the US. The answer to them is for more people to arm themselves. On and on it goes.


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2018)

sawtooth said:



			1 school shooting a week on average since 2013!!

Stupid American government when will they learn.
		
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The only guns governments buy is to do a specific job - normally.  People buy guns and people need to take responsibility.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			People buy guns and people need to take responsibility.
		
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That has not worked though, has it? On quite a massive scale as well over a long period of time.


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## sawtooth (Feb 15, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			The only guns governments buy is to do a specific job - normally.  People buy guns and people need to take responsibility.
		
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It has to start at the top, nobody is going to give up their guns willingly.

Would you if you knew others were still free to buy and keep them?


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## IanM (Feb 15, 2018)

I think it is more than the NRA's political contributions.......... from the time I've spent in the US, some educated and otherwise rational people I've met think nothing of being armed and having guns about. 

It is deep rooted in their psyche.

And it is quite bonkers.


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## JollyRedDevil (Feb 15, 2018)

You have to be over 21 to buy a pint in US but in some states you can buy a gun at 16. Ridiculous.


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## bobmac (Feb 15, 2018)

Australia haven't had a mass shooting since 1996


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2018)

bobmac said:



			Australia haven't had a mass shooting since 1996
		
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Since when strict gun control and laws were introduced.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2018)

So North Korea wants nuclear arms and the US say it would be dangerous to allow them to be armed like some others, but when something like this happens the stock response from within the US is to allow more arms. Crazy or what.
Feel so sorry for those who have lost family and those involved in the whole thing, but I fear noth8ng will ever change.


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2018)

sawtooth said:



			It has to start at the top, nobody is going to give up their guns willingly.

Would you if you knew others were still free to buy and keep them?
		
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Large country with enough people to say they will not elect any politician who will not fight against the current gun laws.

I've been around the things for too long and seen what the end result can be so in answer to your question I wouldn't own one.


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## londonlewis (Feb 15, 2018)

When human life means less than changing a constitutional law, you know that nothing will change. 

The arguments given by gun supporters are shameful but there is no moving them. It's like talking to a brick wall. 
The issue then lies with the government and unfortunately the NRA has serious lobbying power. It's pretty much a dead end.


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## GMC1981 (Feb 15, 2018)

bobmac said:



			No smiley so I presume you're being serious?
I hope not
		
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I was being facetious regarding the Americans perverse attitude towards guns .


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## GMC1981 (Feb 15, 2018)

londonlewis said:



			When human life means less than changing a constitutional law, you know that nothing will change. 

The arguments given by gun supporters are shameful but there is no moving them. It's like talking to a brick wall. 
The issue then lies with the government and unfortunately the NRA has serious lobbying power. It's pretty much a dead end.
		
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They could reign it in without compromising their much loved constitution.

Hand guns should be the maximum any civilian should be allowed . The type of gun being used in most of these atrocities is military grade stuff that should be nowhere near the hands of the general public . But itâ€™s now too ingrained into their moronic psyche that the horse has bolted .


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## Beezerk (Feb 15, 2018)

IanM said:



			I think it is more than the NRA's political contributions.......... from the time I've spent in the US, some educated and otherwise rational people I've met think nothing of being armed and having guns about. 

It is deep rooted in their psyche.

And it is quite bonkers.
		
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I remember watching a US news channel reporting on one of those uk terrorist attacks last year. They were essentially saying the general public and police had no chance as we were not armed, I think "archaic uk gun laws" was the exact phrase they used.


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## User62651 (Feb 15, 2018)

GMC1981 said:



			They could reign it in without compromising their much loved constitution.

Hand guns should be the maximum any civilian should be allowed . The type of gun being used in most of these atrocities is military grade stuff that should be nowhere near the hands of the general public . But itâ€™s now too ingrained into their moronic psyche that the horse has bolted .
		
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It should still be ok for field sports participants/farmers to own rifles and shotguns for fieldsports and/or vermin control but under strict licence like us here and with a minimum age of ownership of perhaps 25, before that age you need to be accompanied by a licensed adult. For the general public to be able to walk into a gun shop and come away with an automatic weapon in many states is madness and then be able to accumulate lots and lots is even more daft.

Re handguns, not being flippant in light of the tragedy yesterday but there is a part of the Steve Martin movie LA Story when a gunfight breaks out on the Highway, parodies the sheer madness of gun ownership/behaviour there, to me this is not far from what teh attitude is like - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoU39Rpp4FI


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## road2ruin (Feb 15, 2018)

With the whole attitude towards the 'right to bear arms' and that most seem to think it's safer to be armed in case this sort of thing happens.....how many times have we read a story about a mass killing being stopped (before it started) by anyone being armed?!

As already mentioned, it boils down to money. Whilst the NRA pump so much into politics I cannot see anything being changed. It's really up to the American people to take to the streets and start forcing change through.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 15, 2018)

An American caller into James O'Brien explained how poor is the provision of care for those with anger management and wider mental health issues in the US.  Combine this with gun purchasers doing self-certification around mental health, and you have a toxic and deadly mix.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 15, 2018)

Just seen Trumps latest tweet.  

_"So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!"_

So he is saying the shooters classmates, some of whom may well have been killed, should look at themselves, take some responsibility and wonder why they did not report him. Essentially victim blaming dead or traumatised school kids.  Unbelievable.


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## Robster59 (Feb 15, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.facebook.com/washingtondcpress/videos/1889926824373004/

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Some of the depressing comments below that video really explain why the Americans will never change.


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## Robster59 (Feb 15, 2018)

This guy covers the arguments against guns so well
[video=youtube;0rR9IaXH1M0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0[/video]


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## Robster59 (Feb 15, 2018)

[video=youtube;a9UFyNy-rw4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4[/video]


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2018)

Hacker Khan said:



			Just seen Trumps latest tweet.  

_"So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!"_

So he is saying the shooters classmates, some of whom may well have been killed, should look at themselves, take some responsibility and wonder why they did not report him. Essentially victim blaming dead or traumatised school kids.  Unbelievable.
		
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He had already been reported to the FBI


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 15, 2018)

The NRA and the GOP might as well start shooting kids themselves they are so complicit in these tragedies.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 15, 2018)

Hacker Khan said:



			Just seen Trumps latest tweet.  

[FONT=&]_"So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!"_

[/FONT]So he is saying the shooters classmates, some of whom may well have been killed, should look at themselves, take some responsibility and wonder why they did not report him. Essentially victim blaming dead or traumatised school kids.  Unbelievable.
		
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One of Trump's first acts in office was to repeal Obama-era legislation that put increased constraints on mentally-ill people buying guns. Criminal.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2018)

Unfortunately very little will change after this one and the next one is not too far away.
Such a sad, sad state of affairs.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Unfortunately very little will change after this one and the next one is not too far away.
Such a sad, sad state of affairs.
		
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Indeed. Trump clearly protecting the funding and support from the gun lobby and yet again has a lack of a grasp at the wider picture, essentially shifting the blame to those caught up in the atrocity and saying they should have done more to report the person responsible. As if they are going to know all the warning signs and even if they did report it, are the facilities in place to deal with mental health issues or like the UK is it a lottery on how well the service looks after these vulnerable young adults


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## Imurg (Feb 15, 2018)

It's time that rank and file Americans stopped talking about it and took to the streets.
There's enough of them.
They need to mobilise or nothing will change.
Massive protest marches in every city is the only way they're going to force it
Plus the ring a candidate to run for the presidency on a Gun control ticket..

Sadly, I doubt any of this will happen..


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## bobmac (Feb 16, 2018)

I was hoping to read some comments from the American members of the forum and what they think?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 16, 2018)

As a Christian I found Trump's address to the nation following the shooting rather nauseating - more so given his own character and views - and no mention of a certain three letter word starting in g.  But of course in all things Trumpian it's actually really all about himself, and so his address would certainly be aimed to appeal to his core vote in the evangelical and gun-toting communities.


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## Old Skier (Feb 16, 2018)

This has been going on for years but it appears it's easy to point the finger at one president.

The mans an idiot but those finger pointers need to get some sense of proportion on this when they are going on the blame game.


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## londonlewis (Feb 16, 2018)

GMC1981 said:



			They could reign it in without compromising their much loved constitution.

Hand guns should be the maximum any civilian should be allowed . The type of gun being used in most of these atrocities is military grade stuff that should be nowhere near the hands of the general public . But itâ€™s now too ingrained into their moronic psyche that the horse has bolted .
		
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I listened to a number of senators talking about it. 
One spoke about a gun he has owned that was made back in the 70s that can hold 21 bulletts. If they changed the laws that would classify that as a different type of weapon and he may no longer be allowed it. Which is his defence of why they shouldn't make any changes. 

It beggars belief!


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## bobmac (Feb 16, 2018)

They have dozens of gun shows all over America every weekend where you can buy guns with no checks whatsoever.


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## patricks148 (Feb 16, 2018)

londonlewis said:



			When human life means less than changing a constitutional law, you know that nothing will change. 

The arguments given by gun supporters are shameful but there is no moving them. It's like talking to a brick wall. 
The issue then lies with the government and unfortunately the NRA has serious lobbying power. It's pretty much a dead end.
		
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unfortunately so true.

I remember the last one, the news interviewed the headmaster and asked how it could have been avoided. Easily he said, if all the teachers and pupils had been armed... the mind boggles


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## spongebob59 (Feb 16, 2018)

You only have to look at the amount of cash being paid by the NRA to the lobbyists to see how things will never change


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 16, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			This has been going on for years but it appears it's easy to point the finger at one president.

The mans an idiot but those finger pointers need to get some sense of proportion on this when they are going on the blame game.
		
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That presidents have tried and failed in the past does not excuse the current one from not bothering.  There is time yet. What is different between this school shooting and the last one?  Are the facts and circumstances of the last one not now known - and have not lessons been learned?  

This latest shooting should not in itself be that which forms the basis for any legislative change - it should merely confirm the need and inject impetus given the understandings from the last one.

But when the Speaker of the House (of Congress) - Paul Ryan - says that they must take time to look at what happened and understand all the facts before deciding what - if anything - to do - well you know pretty much certainly that nothing is going to be done unless Trump perceives any personal advantage - which is depressing.  But what do I know - I am not an American gun owner.


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## Junior (Feb 16, 2018)

FairwayDodger said:



			One of Trump's first acts in office was to repeal Obama-era legislation that put increased constraints on mentally-ill people buying guns. Criminal.
		
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.... and its the only piece of legislation he had passed to date.   Crazy.


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## londonlewis (Feb 16, 2018)

This sums is up pretty well. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html


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## Beezerk (Feb 23, 2018)

Oh my, Iâ€™m reading this morning the armed officer at the school was at the scene within a minute or so but dropped his @rse. He stayed outside while the lad shot all the kids and teachers.


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## londonlewis (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Oh my, Iâ€™m reading this morning the armed officer at the school was at the scene within a minute or so but dropped his @rse. He stayed outside while the lad shot all the kids and teachers.
		
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I don't want this to come across the wrong way but I sort of hope this is true. It puts paid to the argument that 'good guys with guns will stop bad guys with guns, so let's just give more people guns' 

How about you put measures in place to remove guns? All guns.


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## Old Skier (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Oh my, Iâ€™m reading this morning the armed officer at the school was at the scene within a minute or so but dropped his @rse. He stayed outside while the lad shot all the kids and teachers.
		
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One man with pistol, might hit a man at 30 m v automatic rifle that can hit man at 200 m. Takes a certain type of person to go into the unknown under those conditions and I personally think the chief of police was wrong to make the incident public.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			One man with pistol, might hit a man at 30 m v automatic rifle that can hit man at 200 m. Takes a certain type of person to go into the unknown under those conditions and I personally think the chief of police was wrong to make the incident public.
		
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Definitely smelled a bit, almost giving the chief of police a scapegoat. 
Why not finish the investigation first.


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## Beezerk (Feb 23, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			One man with pistol, might hit a man at 30 m v automatic rifle that can hit man at 200 m. Takes a certain type of person to go into the unknown under those conditions and I personally think the chief of police was wrong to make the incident public.
		
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Yeah I get that but what is his job exactly, to stop something like this happening is it not? In fairness he should have been armed better but he has obviously been trained for situations just like this. I guess itâ€™s the same as a soldier bottling it in a combat situation.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Yeah I get that but what is his job exactly, to stop something like this happening is it not? In fairness he should have been armed better but he has obviously been trained for situations just like this. I guess itâ€™s the same as a soldier bottling it in a combat situation.
		
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Will he have been trained though? I don't know but it may be a Mall Cop job. I doubt he ever thought something like this would happen. 

We need one of our US people to comment here but if it is a low paid job, uniform and a badge, away you go mate then is he really in a position to take someone on who is armed with a gun that can fire god knows how many bullets per second? He waited for armed back up, not sure I blame him. It was real life, not Die Hard.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Will he have been trained though? I don't know but it may be a Mall Cop job. I doubt he ever thought something like this would happen. 

We need one of our US people to comment here but if it is a low paid job, uniform and a badge, away you go mate then is he really in a position to take someone on who is armed with a gun that can fire god knows how many bullets per second? He waited for armed back up, not sure I blame him. It was real life, not Die Hard.
		
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Part of the Sherrifâ€™s Dept on $75,000 per annum. Even if he was highly trained there may still be a reason why he didnâ€™t react as some of us may hoped.
Thatâ€™s what the investigation may of found out, suspended on no pay, so he decides to resign/retire as he had enough service for pension.
For the next 24/48hrs the focus will be on the failure of a law enforcement officer not the gun laws etc, less focus on nra.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 23, 2018)

Not chicken feed then, a proper job. I believe the police arrived 4 minutes after it was called in. He may have been told to wait for back up, you will know better than me on that one Paul.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2018)

Only watched the Sherriffâ€™s press conference, he stated the Officer arrived at the building 90 seconds after shooting started and took a defensive position for 4 minutes, shooting lasted 6 minutes.

Sherriff stated he had watched the video of this and had decided after viewing it plus eye-witness statements to suspend the Officer.

It must be pretty damning evidence for him to do that, but it was not easy watching him say it, he was almost saying, imo, the Officers action caused a bigger loss of life.

Why he couldnâ€™t say the Officer was suspended while an investigation takes place and leave it at that I donâ€™t know.


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## Beezerk (Feb 23, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Why he couldnâ€™t say the Officer was suspended while an investigation takes place and leave it at that I donâ€™t know.
		
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American cops and tv for you, you get names and details just about straight away over there.


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## sawtooth (Feb 23, 2018)

When you hear stories of unarmed teachers jumping in front of bullets to protect kids , an armed police officer waiting outside sounds a bit of a coward tbh.

After all his job is to help protect the public and he wasnâ€™t doing much protecting from reports. 

Also if he felt that he did nothing wrong he wouldnâ€™t resign would he?


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## Papas1982 (Feb 23, 2018)

sawtooth said:



			When you hear stories of unarmed teachers jumping in front of bullets to protect kids , an armed police officer waiting outside sounds a bit of a coward tbh.

After all his job is to help protect the public and he wasnâ€™t doing much protecting from reports. 

Also if he felt that he did nothing wrong he wouldnâ€™t resign would he?
		
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I think with whatâ€™s been shown, whether he felt guilty or not. It was clear heâ€™s now the scapegoat. Resign has protected his pension so may have been advised to do so.

re being a coward, I think thatâ€™s harsh. Nobody knows how theyâ€™ll react in that scenario until it happens. But all means call anyone who jumped in the way a hero, but running from bullets is probably the more common reaction.


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## Old Skier (Feb 23, 2018)

sawtooth said:



			When you hear stories of unarmed teachers jumping in front of bullets to protect kids , an armed police officer waiting outside sounds a bit of a coward tbh.

After all his job is to help protect the public and he wasnâ€™t doing much protecting from reports. 

Also if he felt that he did nothing wrong he wouldnâ€™t resign would he?
		
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A bit harsh. Another day he might have reacted another way. I wonder how brave you would be armed with a pistol against someone with a semi automatic rifle.


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## sawtooth (Feb 23, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			I think with whatâ€™s been shown, whether he felt guilty or not. It was clear heâ€™s now the scapegoat. Resign has protected his pension so may have been advised to do so.

re being a coward, I think thatâ€™s harsh. Nobody knows how theyâ€™ll react in that scenario until it happens. But all means call anyone who jumped in the way a hero, but running from bullets is probably the more common reaction.
		
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OK a little harsh but tbf we arenâ€™t talking about someone, anyone, a passer by, itâ€™s a trained, weapon carrying, police officer.


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## sawtooth (Feb 23, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			A bit harsh. Another day he might have reacted another way. I wonder how brave you would be armed with a pistol against someone with a semi automatic rifle.
		
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Well if I was a trained police officer with a weapon, I would like to think that I would be brave enough to go inside and do the best I could to protect the unarmed kids.

Until I was put in that position I couldnâ€™t say.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 23, 2018)

sawtooth said:



			Also if he felt that he did nothing wrong he wouldnâ€™t resign would he?
		
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Whenever a senior police officer is up for disciplinary action in this country and they don't fancy their chances they resign as it stops the investigation and protects the pension. Seen it happen over and over again. Seems like the same set up over there.


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## Beezerk (Feb 23, 2018)

The irony is beautiful, just when the USA needed one of those gun happy cops, they get someone who probably thought he was on easy street with a dream â€œsteadyâ€ job to see him out until retirement. Going on what my dci mate said, heâ€™s probably been put there as he was a rubbish cop, put out to graze if you will.


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## Old Skier (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			The irony is beautiful, just when the USA needed one of those gun happy cops, they get someone who probably thought he was on easy street with a dream â€œsteadyâ€ job to see him out until retirement. Going on what my dci mate said, heâ€™s probably been put there as he was a rubbish cop, put out to graze if you will.
		
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My thoughts exactly


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## Khamelion (Feb 23, 2018)

Putting the suspended officer to one side, the floppy haired commander in chief has said that teachers should be armed to prevent incidents like this happening. Yes indeed Mr President yet another stupid idea. Great in principal until a teacher decides to go postal.

If it wasn't so easy to make up you wouldn't believe it, but you can see the day that teachers get to carry pistols, one arrives at school having a bad day, just broke up from his or her partner, hot coffee spilled down the front of them while driving into work, a little bit of road rage and the blood starts to boil, then in class the awkward student starts to get all lippy and just keeps pushing the teacher, the teacher snaps and shows the class that the lippy kid did indeed have brains he just chose to apply them wrong by splattering them over the other students.

Arming teachers is not the way to go, arming teachers is heading down the road of anarchy.

What will trump come up with next, free Kevlar vests for all students.

Schools locked down at 09:00hrs on the dot, class rooms locked internally, that's not a school that's a prison.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 23, 2018)

Spend a lot of time in the USA and there are many dangerous things there Bears , alligators etc .
The most dangerous thing is humans with guns.
Now I get some people need them out in the wild but nobody needs an assault rifle living in LA or any other city.

They need joined up thinking but with potus in favour nothing is going to happen.

Really felt for the guy on news last night who told the President â€œI will never see my beautiful daughter againâ€ it was heart breaking.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 23, 2018)

Just seen one of his latest tweets. 

_'What many people donâ€™t understand, or donâ€™t want to understand, is that Wayne, Chris and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing.                  MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!'

_So pretty clear to me that whatever will change, if anything, will be endorsed and agreed by the NRA first.


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## Old Skier (Feb 23, 2018)

From the man who allegedly dodged the draft http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43174069


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## Khamelion (Feb 23, 2018)

Trump is a businessman not a politician all he sees is the bottom line and making money, if the NRA will get behind any policy he wants to push through by donating votes and money Trump will be their lap dog, he'll no doubt also accept any large donations (Yeah lets calls them donations) that would see a NRA bill getting passed.

The US is where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the rich don't give a toss as long as they have their money and material items, they'll feel they have done enough by giving to a gun crime charity every once in a while but will feel hard done by in doing so, in that the rich will be thinking why should I be given to the families of gun crime, it wasn't me that pulled the trigger, sold the gun, what has it got to do with me and once the money is donated they'll bury their heads in the sand until the next time they donate where their apathetic apology will be so nauseatingly false and transparent.

Yes there is gun crime in he poorer parts of the US, but that is so common it is barely news worthy.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2018)

sawtooth said:



			Well if I was a trained police officer with a weapon, I would like to think that I would be brave enough to go inside and do the best I could to protect the unarmed kids.

Until I was put in that position I couldnâ€™t say.
		
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Beezerk could be right, he could be an old boy, nearing retirement, given a easy assignment. He also may never have fired his weapon in anger or he may even of been through some nasty situations in his career and faced with the situation again went in meltdown, or suffer with ptsd, or he was a coward.

Whatever the reason itâ€™s unfair to judge him until all the facts are known and believe me, you have no idea how you, me or anyone would react in that situation, regardless of trg or what you think you can do.


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## Hosel Fade (Feb 23, 2018)

It is just silly, they have their guns for protection (when the class is called assault rifles). They are not used for hunting or anything productive other than showing off how much of a super army soldier you are in front of your mates at the range. No one needs a rifle with a 30+ round magazine capacity for any practical purpose (some states do limit magazine size but the vast majority do not).

They are very cheap and you can easily get one for the price of a current model driver which is very concerning.

Not sure what the answer is re classifying these things but raising the purchasing age to 21 and making the 10 round magazine limit a federal thing rather than just in 8 states would be a start.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 23, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Beezerk could be right, he could be an old boy, nearing retirement, given a easy assignment. He also may never have fired his weapon in anger or he may even of been through some nasty situations in his career and faced with the situation again went in meltdown, or suffer with ptsd, or he was a coward.
*
Whatever the reason itâ€™s unfair to judge him until all the facts are known and believe me, you have no idea how you, me or anyone would react in that situation, regardless of trg or what you think you can do.*

Click to expand...

By some distance the most sensible comment on this thread. :thup:

We know what he was supposedly not doing, do we know what he actually was doing during that time, and why he was doing what he was doing?  Answer, no we don't and until we do we are in no position to judge.  I'm not saying it looks good, but there may be reasons why.


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## Khamelion (Feb 23, 2018)

Hosel Fade said:



			It is just silly, they have their guns for protection (when the class is called assault rifles). They are not used for hunting or anything productive other than showing off how much of a super army soldier you are in front of your mates at the range. No one needs a rifle with a 30+ round magazine capacity for any practical purpose (some states do limit magazine size but the vast majority do not).

They are very cheap and you can easily get one for the price of a current model driver which is very concerning.

Not sure what the answer is re classifying these things but raising the purchasing age to 21 and making the 10 round magazine limit a federal thing rather than just in 8 states would be a start.
		
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I was going to make a point on why they don't just ban all cartridge based weapons larger than .22, but then I remembered  the NRA.


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## Imurg (Feb 23, 2018)

Just heard on the radio that there will be no real change to the gun laws despite all the coverage ....
Well, I'm sorry to say that, if that is the case, I withdraw all sympathy for America when the next shooting occurs.
They, as a country, don't want to change.
If thousands of lost lives each year don't do the trick then it means America must be willing to accept these losses.
In which case I have no sympathy for them.

If the people really do want change then they have to mobilise millions, not thousands.
Blockade the White House and Capitol Hill, flood the streets with protesters on a biblical scale.

If they don't, then I don't have a care for them anymore.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 23, 2018)

Blue in Munich said:



			By some distance the most sensible comment on this thread. :thup:

We know what he was supposedly not doing, do we know what he actually was doing during that time, and why he was doing what he was doing?  Answer, no we don't and until we do we are in no position to judge.  I'm not saying it looks good, but there may be reasons why.
		
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Trump is now suggesting that the policeman who was on duty is a coward.  A coward...this will be so disheartening and distressing for that policeman and his family.  We know nothig about him - and neither - I suspect - does Trump.  Just great coming from a lily-livered draft dodger of a bully.


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## Khamelion (Feb 23, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Trump is now suggesting that the policeman who was on duty is a coward.  A coward...this will be so disheartening and distressing for that policeman and his family.  We know nothig about him - and neither - I suspect - does Trump.  Just great coming from a lily-livered draft dodger of a bully.
		
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Trump's idea of ruling, managing, governing, call it what your will is negative reinforcement, in that those who fail are seen as weak and unworthy, they are castigated and vilified to be made an example of so that others are shown what is expected.

Okay the copper may have made a misjudgement, he may have been acting on orders, he could be being made a scapegoat we don't know, but to publically call him a coward, is nothing but a cowardly action itself from Trump.


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## Beezerk (Feb 23, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			He also may never have fired his weapon in anger or he may even of been through some nasty situations in his career and faced with the situation again went in meltdown.
		
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This one sounds plausible, probably a career small town cop who just went along doing his thing and never saw any major action at all, your proper local Bobby type. Didn't the town where it happened win some award recently as being the most peaceful in the US or something on those lines?
Feel sorry for him in a way, POTUS on his case is bad form and he's been made to look a right winker.


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## SteveJay (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			This one sounds plausible, probably a career small town cop who just went along doing his thing and never saw any major action at all, your proper local Bobby type. Didn't the town where it happened win some award recently as being the most peaceful in the US or something on those lines?
Feel sorry for him in a way, POTUS on his case is bad form and he's been made to look a right winker.
		
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Even so if I was a parent of one of the victims I don't think i would be able to forgive him for doing nothing or be as diplomatic as some forum members above. Saying that, I agree that Trump probably doesn't have all the info to support his statement.


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## Kellfire (Feb 23, 2018)

Saw this on Facebook about how Japan handle guns in society...

https://youtu.be/tPLoW4eFwiM


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			This one sounds plausible, probably a career small town cop who just went along doing his thing and never saw any major action at all, your proper local Bobby type. Didn't the town where it happened win some award recently as being the most peaceful in the US or something on those lines?
Feel sorry for him in a way, POTUS on his case is bad form and he's been made to look a right winker.
		
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SteveJay said:



			Even so if I was a parent of one of the victims I don't think i would be able to forgive him for doing nothing or be as diplomatic as some forum members above. Saying that, I agree that Trump probably doesn't have all the info to support his statement.
		
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If he simply bottled it then he deserves everything he has coming, I read heâ€™d been the school cop there for years, he probably knew the victims as well.

The local Police are also guarding his house, is that from the media or from locals?

Either way, Itâ€™s the timing of all this and how itâ€™s deflected from the other issues and now we have the draft dodging idiot calling someone a coward.


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## Beezerk (Feb 23, 2018)

SteveJay said:



			Even so if I was a parent of one of the victims I don't think i would be able to forgive him for doing nothing or be as diplomatic as some forum members above. Saying that, I agree that Trump probably doesn't have all the info to support his statement.
		
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I agree mate, from a fathers stance I'd be wanting to do bad things to him knowing he just hid or did nothing, when he's there to try and stop this type of thing. I don't know what the answer is, a Marine in every school who is prepared to do the biz should something happen? That isn't plausible is it. Obviously a common or garden local cop isn't the answer as guns are there to stay in the USA.


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## larmen (Feb 23, 2018)

If you see any other news you usually have police controlling the perimeter, calling in a swat team. Now a school guard is supposed to take out a shooter with a rifle in tactical gear?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			I agree mate, from a fathers stance I'd be wanting to do bad things to him knowing he just hid or did nothing, when he's there to try and stop this type of thing. I don't know what the answer is, a Marine in every school who is prepared to do the biz should something happen? That isn't plausible is it. Obviously a common or garden local cop isn't the answer as guns are there to stay in the USA.
		
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Theyâ€™ve had mass shootings on Military bases over there, like you I donâ€™t know what the answer, but Iâ€™m 99% sure more guns isnâ€™t the solution.


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## Beezerk (Feb 23, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			but Iâ€™m 99% sure more guns isnâ€™t the solution.
		
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100%
What would happen in the UK should it be legal for everyone to walk around with knives?
No brainer.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			100%
What would happen in the UK should it be legal for everyone to walk around with knives?
No brainer.
		
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Itâ€™s too embedded in their culture and to change that it would take generations and probably billions of dollars.

The best deterrent to more guns is the    Chris Kyle story.


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## Sats (Feb 23, 2018)

I used to live in the states and it's mental - got strict laws about a pint, yet when I opened a bank account I was offered a firearm, which depended on how much I deposited when opening a new account - got offered a choice of a P228 or a Glock 17. When I opened my Midland Bank account it was Â£50 added or a young person railcard!


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 23, 2018)

Re: Arming teachers.......Saw a stat on Twitter yesterday that said that in a live shooting situation the accuracy of a trained police marksman is 18%. So in a high pressure situation, the highly trained police shooter will hit his target with less than 1 in 5 shots. Now imagine a teacher that has been given basic training in firearms. Even assuming a best case scenario where the teacher is half as accurate he will only hit his target with less than 1 in 10 shots. In a classroom full of kids the concern has to be where the other 9 out of 10 shots end up.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2018)

ColchesterFC said:



			Re: Arming teachers.......Saw a stat on Twitter yesterday that said that in a live shooting situation the accuracy of a trained police marksman is 18%. So in a high pressure situation, the highly trained police shooter will hit his target with less than 1 in 5 shots. Now imagine a teacher that has been given basic training in firearms. Even assuming a best case scenario where the teacher is half as accurate he will only hit his target with less than 1 in 10 shots. In a classroom full of kids the concern has to be where the other 9 out of 10 shots end up.
		
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Adding to that Colchester, the teacher has a handgun? daughter is doing shoots up to 20 yd max with a hand gun. You are then expected to tackle someone with a semi automatic which is accurate up to hundreds of yards. Which also fires hundreds of times quicker. Not going to happen am afraid.


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## sawtooth (Feb 24, 2018)

Tashyboy said:



			Adding to that Colchester, the teacher has a handgun? daughter is doing shoots up to 20 yd max with a hand gun. You are then expected to tackle someone with a semi automatic which is accurate up to hundreds of yards. Which also fires hundreds of times quicker. Not going to happen am afraid.
		
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Then the most sensible thing to do is to equip teachers with AR-15â€™s ðŸ˜œ

Actually why stop there, let students carry guns into school so they can defend themselves - itâ€™s their right after all. ðŸ¤ª

Itâ€™s all bonkers.


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## Beezerk (Feb 24, 2018)

Companies are dropping the NRA as sponsors, is this the start of something significant?


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 25, 2018)

[video=youtube;4T41M7cCqsU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T41M7cCqsU[/video]


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2018)

Two sides to a story?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43202800


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