# Tiger - Plenty of work to do



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2014)

Woods +3 after 7 and playing some very ordinary shots.


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## fundy (Dec 4, 2014)

what did you expect after the length of time hes had out injured, change of coach etc ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2014)

fundy said:



			what did you expect after the length of time hes had out injured, change of coach etc ?
		
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Not sure really. I hoped he'd come back firing and that the coach would have him playing with confidence. Duffed bunker shot and duffed chips inexcusable really at his level


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## CMAC (Dec 4, 2014)

Sigh! ! 7 holes in after a long troubled injury layoff and the gloaters can't wait to revel in his failings!


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## garyinderry (Dec 4, 2014)

Justin rose putted off the green. Doh


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Sigh! ! 7 holes in after a long troubled injury layoff and the gloaters can't wait to revel in his failings!
		
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Not at all, least from my point of view. Was merely make an observation


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## Ethan (Dec 4, 2014)

Just seen a few shots and I think his swing looks good. Had a bad break on the 13th, landing pretty close but then rolling back off the green. 

I think he'll work the rust out and soon play better than he did before the layoff.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 4, 2014)

His swing looks quite good and the commentators are actually liking it.
They have also mentioned he has gained 4mph swing speed since his comeback.

Seeing him duff his chip gives hope to every player who plays golf for fun,if it
can happen to the best it can happen to all.


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## Ethan (Dec 4, 2014)

Oh. My. God. What a horror show with the chipping. I don't care for him, but I really don't want to see that.


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## garyinderry (Dec 4, 2014)

who!   that is just crazy short game stuff!!    just dumping the leading edge into the ground.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2014)

Woods will be back amongst the challengers now - he will compete and prob win the odd PGA event but think there are far too many top players competing for the majors now - he doesn't stand out now.


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## pbrown7582 (Dec 4, 2014)

Swing looking decent,  short game well rusty wouldn't of expected it to have gone quite so much but there was always going to be some ups and downs after such a long injury break and swing change. Pretty sure he will win again though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 4, 2014)

They are the worst chips I have seen a pro do - really poor - 4 duffs !!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2014)

I'm shocked. Of all the things he would have been able to work on as he recovered would have been the short game and his is as bad as mine on this evidence


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## OldMate (Dec 4, 2014)

I don't think that he looked too bad at all, aside from the horrible chipping.  I hope that it doesn't get into his head going forward.  Flubbing chips is about as bad as having the *****s in my opinion.


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## JCW (Dec 4, 2014)

May as well give up , No way is he catching Fred Funk  never mind Rory , time to retire and make a comeback on the seniors tour :thup:


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## Stuey01 (Dec 4, 2014)

He hit the driver long and in the fairway. That has been his Achilles heal in recent times, big improvement there.  The chips were brutal but that won't last.  He had a lot of birdie chances today, just didn't make any.  Rustiness is to be expected.

it was worse than I expected, on the scorecard, but I think there were positives there. Would not be surprised to see him put a good round together 1 day this tournament. He'll be nowhere near the leaders, but I could see a good round coming from him.


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## Martin70 (Dec 4, 2014)

Bound to be rusty. Better now than in a few months too.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They are the worst chips I have seen a pro do - really poor - 4 duffs !!
		
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I really hope Richard has seen it.....he might actually compliment me on my short game after seeing Woods  :rofl:


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## richart (Dec 4, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I really hope Richard has seen it.....he might actually compliment me on my short game after seeing Woods  :rofl:
		
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 I only saw him consistently fat them Gordon. Did I miss him sculling one across the green as well ?


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## mefromhere (Dec 5, 2014)

One round back after an injury that could have ended his career completely and competing against the best players in the world I'd say he didn't do too badly. Take the fluffed chips and bunker shot out and he's level; these are all mistakes he won't be making in a few weeks time.

I expect him to be challenging when the masters comes around, especially with more time on his swing and time for the short game to get back up to scratch


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 5, 2014)

I only saw a few minutes of the presenters talking about him and they all seemed rather positive about his swing and put the rest down to rustiness. I have no doubt he'll be in the winners circle more than once next year if he stays fit.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 5, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I really hope Richard has seen it.....he might actually compliment me on my short game after seeing Woods  :rofl:
		
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Actually Gordon yours make his look good


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## Dan2501 (Dec 5, 2014)

[video=youtube;7YNTThLnmcU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YNTThLnmcU[/video]

Wow. That 2nd one is just amateur. Hopefully he'll get his short-game sorted soon, and be back on track. Sounds like he went okay in the Pro Am, so was just a bad day. Would love to see Tiger back to his best!


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## garyinderry (Dec 5, 2014)

http://www.golfwrx.com/264459/spieth-first-tiger-last-at-hero-challenge/


Here is the rest.  Shockingly bad.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 5, 2014)

It was bad but he's rusty and it obviously got in his head. Easily sorted for a player of his ability - more interesting was the long game and driving which seems to be quite promising. I think he'll be challenging next year!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			He hit the driver long and in the fairway. That has been his Achilles heal in recent times, big improvement there.  The chips were brutal but that won't last.  He had a lot of birdie chances today, just didn't make any.  Rustiness is to be expected.

it was worse than I expected, on the scorecard, but I think there were positives there. Would not be surprised to see him put a good round together 1 day this tournament. He'll be nowhere near the leaders, but I could see a good round coming from him.
		
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Really, only 9/14 fairways hit and 11 GIR. Still plenty of work to do I would suggest.


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## Alex1975 (Dec 5, 2014)

Great job by Tiger. Worked though the round, made some errors but kept calm. Big smile on the last green. Day one done... the rest of his life to go...


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

Well apart from the air shot anger swishes after the duff chips he was calm

And if +5 in perfect conditions is a great job then I hate to see a poor job 

He had the odd good drive and good shot but overall was poor


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

For all the work he's put in on the new swing and in rehab since the surgery I cannot believe that so many duffed chips are purely a result of rustiness. It's the one area pros work on more than any other. Very poor and on current showing, even with a swing the experts are saying looks better, it looked like he was well out of sorts


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 5, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Actually Gordon yours make his look good

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MODS!!!

They're all picking on me again


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## Alex1975 (Dec 5, 2014)

Bla bla bla.... speculate speculate, yall have no idea what the plan was, what his expectations were, how the back is, how the knee is,how much work has been put into what. This was the first test no matter the range and swing work its not real till you play.

It was a poor result, he did a fine job... 

Clearly there were expectations but they were yours and maybe not his.


Out of interest I did not see an interview, was there one and what did he say?


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## Stuey01 (Dec 5, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Really, only 9/14 fairways hit and 11 GIR. Still plenty of work to do I would suggest.
		
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I don't think the stats tell the whole story.

Of the fairways missed:
One was off the first tee where he carved it OOB with a fairway wood not driver. 1st tee nerves.
One was a good straight drive but he hit it too long through the fairway.
There were two bad swings that went left, not entirely unexpected with a swing change and ring rustiness.
Don't recall the 5th missed fairway.

Key point for me was that he looked more comfortable with driver than he has in years, and seems to have picked up some length too, knocking it passed Jason Day several times.


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## Alex1975 (Dec 5, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			Key point for me was that he looked more comfortable with driver than he has in years, and seems to have picked up some length too, knocking it passed Jason Day several times.
		
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Agreed


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			I don't think the stats tell the whole story.

Of the fairways missed:
One was off the first tee where he carved it OOB with a fairway wood not driver. 1st tee nerves.
One was a good straight drive but he hit it too long through the fairway.
There were two bad swings that went left, not entirely unexpected with a swing change and ring rustiness.
Don't recall the 5th missed fairway.

Key point for me was that he looked more comfortable with driver than he has in years, and seems to have picked up some length too, knocking it passed Jason Day several times.
		
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And only 11/18 GIR?

Looked to me as if his all round game was (understandably) extremely rusty and any sing changes he may have made are, again understandably, a long way from set.

I am sure he will improve over the coming months but it does not appear that all the work is yet done.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

It's not the first return of Tiger woods - must have been 5 now and doubt we will see anything different than in the last 6 years 

He is not the stand out golfer anymore - part of the pack chasing the top 3 or 4 guys


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## Alex1975 (Dec 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not the first return of Tiger woods - must have been 5 now and doubt we will see anything different than in the last 6 years 

He is not the stand out golfer anymore - part of the pack chasing the top 3 or 4 guys
		
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In your opinion....


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## philly169 (Dec 5, 2014)

I didn't expect him to come out all cylinders firing, he is bound to be rusty after his injury and swing changes. As others have said, his new old swing looks really good and hopefully once hes worked on it in competitive play he will be able to compete again. Its just a case of relieving pressure from his back by not hitting the power shots.

In terms of his duff'd chips I would love to duff 2 chips and still manage a bogey!! 

His short game needs some tweeking, getting the tempo working correctly.. won't be long. there is a lot of pressure on him being his home course, he is the host and its his first round back.

Also, those saying a pro should never duff a shot... [video=youtube;jNM5Ko1_Zsc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNM5Ko1_Zsc[/video]


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 5, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			In your opinion....
		
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I agree with Phil  :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I agree with Phil  :thup:
		
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Me too!


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## muttleee (Dec 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They are the worst chips I have seen a pro do - really poor - 4 duffs !!
		
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Don't forget Rocca at the Open in 1995!   At least that was only one though...


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## JamesR (Dec 5, 2014)

muttleee said:



			Don't forget Rocca at the Open in 1995!   At least that was only one though...
		
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I remember seeing him do one on the Sunday of the '93 Ryder Cup as well, 11th or 12th hole I think.


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## Smiffy (Dec 5, 2014)

If I had been playing with him, I would have just turned round and said "I can do that"


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## JamesR (Dec 5, 2014)

Didn't Rose also duff a chip in either Turkey or Dubai?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			In your opinion....
		
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Obviously it is my opinion and based on what we have seen over the last 6 years


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## Stuey01 (Dec 5, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			And only 11/18 GIR?

Looked to me as if his all round game was (understandably) extremely rusty and any sing changes he may have made are, again understandably, a long way from set.

I am sure he will improve over the coming months but it does not appear that all the work is yet done.
		
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What about the 11/18 GIR?  I don't recall saying it was a great ball striking round or indeed anything about his iron play. I mentioned that his driving looked better.

I agree with you that his all round game was rusty. But it looked really bad because of the shocking short game, without those duffed chips and shot left in the bunker he would have been around even par.

Much improvement needed, obviously, I was just drawing out that I felt there was something positive in there.


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## Val (Dec 5, 2014)

Tournament rusty I agree but golf rusty? Really? It's not as if this week will be the first he's picked a club up in months. He's had a bad day yesterday big time but it's more poor technique than anything, I don't buy into this rusty lark.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 5, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			What about the 11/18 GIR?  I don't recall saying it was a great ball striking round or indeed anything about his iron play. I mentioned that his driving looked better.

I agree with you that his all round game was rusty. But it looked really bad because of the shocking short game, without those duffed chips and shot left in the bunker he would have been around even par.

Much improvement needed, obviously, I was just drawing out that I felt there was something positive in there.
		
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I'm not knocking the man, with his record that would be absolutely stupid.

Merely trying to give some context to his first round back when some are suggesting that he looked good when he didn't.

At his best yesterday he looked distinctly average and remember his score was eight shots worse than the average for the rest of the field.

Definitely not a Tiger hater but I do think it is far too early to judge what level he is likely to be at when match fit.

What I am certain of is that he will not dominate again in the way that he once did.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not the first return of Tiger woods - must have been 5 now and doubt we will see anything different than in the last 6 years 

He is not the stand out golfer anymore - part of the pack chasing the top 3 or 4 guys
		
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In 2013, the last time he was fit for a decent period, he won more times than anyone else on tour, finished top of the money list and won player of the year. But then I guess that was all of a year ago so doesn't count.

You don't have to like Tiger but he proves time and time again that when he is fit he is still up there with the best in the world. He may not be the stand out player any more but all you need to win a major is 4 good days and he has as much chance as anyone of doing that.

As usual when it comes to Tiger I think too many let their dislike of him cloud the facts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			In 2013, the last time he was fit for a decent period, he won more times than anyone else on tour, finished top of the money list and won player of the year. But then I guess that was all of a year ago so doesn't count.

You don't have to like Tiger but he proves time and time again that when he is fit he is still up their with the best in the world. He may not be the stand out player anymore but all you need to win a major is 4 good days and he has as much chance as anyone of doing that.

As usual when it comes to Tiger I think too many let their dislike of him cloud the facts.
		
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But hasn't really challenged for a major in the last 6 and half years 

So as I iniitaly said - he will win the odd tour title on the PGA possibly a WGC on his favourite courses but not a major imo - far too many golfers playing a higher consistent standard than him now in the majors.


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## Val (Dec 5, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			In 2013, the last time he was fit for a decent period, he won more times than anyone else on tour, finished top of the money list and won player of the year. But then I guess that was all of a year ago so doesn't count.

You don't have to like Tiger but he proves time and time again that when he is fit he is still up their with the best in the world. He may not be the stand out player anymore but all you need to win a major is 4 good days and he has as much chance as anyone of doing that.

*As usual when it comes to Tiger I think too many let their dislike of him cloud the facts.*

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Same could be said in reverse about Tiger lovers. The minute he is back swinging a club all we hear about is how many more majors he *WILL* win, we've been hearing that for years now.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But hasn't really challenged for a major in the last 6 and half years 

So as I iniitaly said - he will win the odd tour title on the PGA possibly a WGC on his favourite courses but not a major imo - far too many golfers playing a higher consistent standard than him now in the majors.
		
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In the last 3 years Jason Dufner, Phil Mickleson, Justin Rose, Webb Simpson and Ernie Els have all won majors. I wouldn't exactly class any of those as playing at a consistently high level. I'm not saying Tiger will win one but I wouldn't rule it out. Being consistent gets you to world number 1, being good for 4 days wins you a major. If Tiger can get back to fitness, he has as much chance as anyone


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 5, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			In the last 3 years Jason Dufner, Phil Mickleson, Justin Rose, Webb Simpson and Ernie Els have all won majors. I wouldn't exactly class any of those as playing at a consistently high level. I'm not saying Tiger will win one but I wouldn't rule it out. Being consistent gets you to world number 1, being good for 4 days wins you a major. *If Tiger can get back to fitness, he has more chance than most*

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FTFY  :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			In the last 3 years Jason Dufner, Phil Mickleson, Justin Rose, Webb Simpson and Ernie Els have all won majors. I wouldn't exactly class any of those as playing at a consistently high level. I'm not saying Tiger will win one but I wouldn't rule it out. Being consistent gets you to world number 1, being good for 4 days wins you a major. If Tiger can get back to fitness, he has as much chance as anyone
		
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Even in 2013 when Woods was back at No1 he still didn't challenge for a major 

Those players won a major because they got 4 rounds in a major in - Woods hasn't done that since 2008 and there isn't much to point towards him doing it 

Overall the viewing of golf is better without Woods , the game has moved on now and can stand on its own without Woods. 

Woods is now part of the sport instead of being the sport. 

He achieved great things but it's now past his time.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 5, 2014)

Tiger's a winner. If his body stays strong, there's every chance he could win another major. He won 5 times last year. He had a really bad 2014, but his body was a mess most of the year. If he can stay fit, I wouldn't bet against him.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even in 2013 when Woods was back at No1 he still didn't challenge for a major 

Those players won a major because they got 4 rounds in a major in - Woods hasn't done that since 2008 and there isn't much to point towards him doing it 

Overall the viewing of golf is better without Woods , the game has moved on now and can stand on its own without Woods. 

Woods is now part of the sport instead of being the sport. 

He achieved great things but it's now past his time.
		
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So what you're saying is the guy who only last year was good enough to be the best player on tour is categorically not good enough to win a major. There's logic in there somewhere but I can't see it.


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## richart (Dec 5, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			In the last 3 years Jason Dufner, Phil Mickleson, Justin Rose, Webb Simpson and Ernie Els have all won majors. I wouldn't exactly class any of those as playing at a consistently high level. I'm not saying Tiger will win one but I wouldn't rule it out. Being consistent gets you to world number 1, being good for 4 days wins you a major. If Tiger can get back to fitness, he has as much chance as anyone
		
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 A lot of golfers have been consistent, but not won a major. Four good days in a major are not easy, and have so far been beyond the likes of Westwood, Donald, Stricker, Garcia, and of course Monty.

I think he will win on the PGA tour again, and could well win the money list again, but not so sure about a major. His putting is nothing like it was when he was in his pomp, and under the ultimate pressure in a major.:mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			So what you're saying is the guy who only last year was good enough to be the best player on tour is categorically not good enough to win a major. There's logic in there somewhere but I can't see it.
		
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Woods last year won tournaments - tournaments where he was comfortable and won numerous times before - when it came to the majors he didn't challenge 

A number have been No1 in recent years yet not go on to win a major - Westwood and Donald two examples 

So whilst Woods will challenge and Prob win PGA tour events I don't think he will win a major again. 

Last year he was player of the year - did he win a major ? No 

Another year later ,another injury , another coach - if he couldn't win when he did win a number of PGA titles in a short space in time why will he now ?


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## JCW (Dec 5, 2014)

Dan2501 said:



			Tiger's a winner. If his body stays strong, there's every chance he could win another major. He won 5 times last year. He had a really bad 2014, but his body was a mess most of the year. If he can stay fit, I wouldn't bet against him.
		
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Was a winner , now he is washed up , done , past his sell by date , no way jose , he has to beat Rory , Adam Scott , Ricky Fowler , Bubba , to name a few , in other words he is not even worth a place money , he is still good for TV mind as lots of fans still want to see him do it , they still he has one last hurrah in hi , maybe he has but I still can not see him winning another major , his name and red shirt on the leader board is history


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## Dan2501 (Dec 5, 2014)

Funny that. 12 months ago he'd just finished a season where he won 5 tournaments and came 2nd on the Fed-Ex Rankings. Sports fans can be a fickle bunch. If Tiger is truely over his injuries, he could have as good as 2015, as he had a 2013. And will be in contention for a major. People were writing Rory off until May last year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

Dan2501 said:



			Funny that. 12 months ago he'd just finished a season where he won 5 tournaments and came 2nd on the Fed-Ex Rankings. Sports fans can be a fickle bunch. If Tiger is truely over his injuries, he could have as good as 2015, as he had a 2013.
		
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And in the majors ? 

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/dec/05/tiger-woods-short-game-plight-rory-mcilroy


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## pokerjoke (Dec 5, 2014)

I believe the difference is his putting why he wont win another major.
He no longer looks assured over a putt like before.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 5, 2014)

After Bubba won his first Masters, his Major results were CUT, T23, T11, T50, T32, T32, CUT, and he followed up his 2nd win with CUT, CUT, T64. Think Bubba will win another one? His results suggest not. Predicting major winners is impossible, and just because Tiger failed to win one in 2013, and hasn't won one since 2008 means nothing. If he's fit, he's still one of the best players in the world, as he proved last year, and he could definitely win another major. Not saying he definitely will, but ruling him out seems ridiculous to me. Especially when you consider that since 2008 he's had 9 Top 10's in Majors, two of them last year.


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## Val (Dec 5, 2014)

He could and he might win another major but I'd be very surprised, he hasn't geen in contention for one in years


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

Bubba can smash 350 with regularity - his distance alone instantly puts him amongst the challengers 

Out of those top 10's how many times did he actually challenge to win it ? 

There is no part of Woods game that sets him apart from everyone else now - he is one of the best of the rest. 

Woods used to reign supreme - he had the edge before the comp even started - Rory has that edge now.


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## pendodave (Dec 5, 2014)

His short game AND his putting were what made the difference. While he's chipping like me (and Lee) he has no chance.

But aside from that, I can't help thinking that until he accepts that he has to play 'old man golf' he is just fooling himself. Nothing he says about his swing and aspirations suggests that he's got his head around it yet. Hit fairways and greens and rely on cunning and short game. Might not beat Rory if he's playing his best (but who can) but gives him a chance in the 75% of tournaments when Rory's A game goes awol.


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## Foxholer (Dec 5, 2014)

Everyone seems very quick to write him off after a particularly poor 1st round in his 1st tournament back!

While I definitely think he's now merely 'one of those who could win if he gets in contention' rather than a 'favourite', I wouldn't be so quick to write him off. His first target is to get through a tournament without injury. Swing looks a lot smoother than a year or more ago - except for those chipping duffs!

Agree that he seems a little lost putting as well, but that's also to be expected imo.

Let's see how he plays for the rest of the tournament and the next couple!


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## davemc1 (Dec 5, 2014)

3 under for today. Go tiger!!  :clap:


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## Stuey01 (Dec 5, 2014)

davemc1 said:



			3 under for today. Go tiger!!  :clap:
		
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4under...

Striping the driver again.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

Looking better but still over par and still throwing in some wild shots. If his fitness is anywhere near 100% then no doubt he'll be a draw on the PGA tour but I still think others have moved on and so in the majors I still don't see him being a force. Just my opinion. I'm not actually a Tiger hater and think what he did for the game (forget the other crap) was what it needed at that time and he was the best of a generation


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## Imurg (Dec 5, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			4under...

Striping the driver again.
		
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Hold up - i thought he was "rusty"....?:ears:


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

Finished with a 2 under 70 

He doesn't look very comfortable walking - looks like he is walking on eggs shells ?

Great round from Rose and Stenson doing well also


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2014)

Great piece from Holmes on the chipping technique from Woods round yesterday and some basic flaws. Very strange why there isn't any hinge set on a pitch and the arms broke down and he was peaking early


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## Piece (Dec 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great piece from Holmes on the chipping technique from Woods round yesterday and some basic flaws. Very strange why there isn't any hinge set on a pitch and the arms broke down and he was peaking early
		
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Without seeing the piece, I'd wager the cause of Tiger's chipping woes is because he's using his new swing takeaway (later hinging) on his chips.

Also mentioned on the early commentary that TW has a mild fever?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 5, 2014)

Piece said:



			Without seeing the piece, I'd wager the cause of Tiger's chipping woes is because he's using his new swing takeaway (later hinging) on his chips.

*Also mentioned on the early commentary that TW has a mild fever?*

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So that's why he looked very tentative


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## Ads749r (Dec 6, 2014)

Piece said:



			Without seeing the piece, I'd wager the cause of Tiger's chipping woes is because he's using his new swing takeaway (later hinging) on his chips.

Also mentioned on the early commentary that TW has a mild fever?
		
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Crikey a mild fever causing him to duff his chips, I better get the doctors then as I must of had a fever for years  haha


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## Sharktooth (Dec 6, 2014)

His chipping reminds me of me. Good to feel human


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great piece from Holmes on the chipping technique from Woods round yesterday and some basic flaws. Very strange why there isn't any hinge set on a pitch and the arms broke down and he was peaking early
		
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I missed the bit where he stated WHY he had changed his chipping technique! Or at least how his full-swing change (less dipping) was affecting the chipping one. A before/after view of Tiger would have been a much better way of showing the difference imo.

Seems to me that he may be caught between old and new techniques on his 'flubs' as  he lifts out of the shot as if expecting to fat it - and duly does! 

Certainly seemed a little more comfortable on Greens than on the 1st day.

I wonder if Zach Johnson is going to regret dropping 2 shots from rushing!


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## pokerjoke (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great piece from Holmes on the chipping technique from Woods round yesterday and some basic flaws. Very strange why there isn't any hinge set on a pitch and the arms broke down and he was peaking early
		
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Yes I liked the piece.
He explained it so simply and you could see exactly why he duffed the chip.
Of course he will eradicate it completely in time and overall his game looked more solid today.


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2014)

Piece said:



			Also mentioned on the early commentary that TW has a mild fever?
		
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Which most probably means that his temperature was half a degree over what it should have been.
I'd love a mild fever.
Much preferable to a freezing pair of walnuts.


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Which most probably means that his temperature was half a degree over what it should have been.
I'd love a mild fever.
Much preferable to a freezing pair of walnuts.
		
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101 apparently. Completely unverifiable of course.

And as LpP posted, he did seem to be walking oddly at times.


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And as LpP posted, he did seem to be walking oddly at times.
		
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As I do with a freezing pair of walnuts.


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Still the best ever. He'll win another major,without doubt.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Still the best ever. He'll win another major,without doubt.
		
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Based on ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Still the best ever. He'll win another major,without doubt.
		
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That I'm not sure about. So many good players these days and McIlroy in particular has moved on. He'll be in the mix a few times but whether he can pull of that wonder shot or get the bit of luck required is to be seen. He certainly won't dominate like he did


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Based on ?
		
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Based on how good a golfer he is. He won't dominate like he did again but if anything this weekend has been encouraging,yes short game has been off but I'm pretty sure it's something he will sharpen up. 

Why will he not win one?


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That I'm not sure about. So many good players these days and McIlroy in particular has moved on. He'll be in the mix a few times but whether he can pull of that wonder shot or get the bit of luck required is to be seen. He certainly won't dominate like he did
		
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No he won't dominate like he did. No one playing currently will including Rory im not sure I'll see that level of dominance again in my lifetime.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Based on how good a golfer he is. He won't dominate like he did again but if anything this weekend has been encouraging,yes short game has been off but I'm pretty sure it's something he will sharpen up. 

Why will he not win one?
		
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I just think there other golfers that are now better than he is and now know how to win majors that he's got to overcome every time before you equate the guys having a career week (Clarke at the Open). Just my opinion and to be honest I'd like to see him in the mix and competing as he's still great to watch on form and arguably even more interesting to watch when he's off and having to grind a score from very exotic places


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I just think there other golfers that are now better than he is and now know how to win majors that he's got to overcome every time before you equate the guys having a career week (Clarke at the Open). Just my opinion and to be honest I'd like to see him in the mix and competing as he's still great to watch on form and arguably even more interesting to watch when he's off and having to grind a score from very exotic places
		
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Last year he was awful needed to make some changes and allow the body to heal. 

If he gets back to 2013 form Id back him to win at least one more. A lot of the players Id pick over him haven't won a major either it's an obstacle they would need to overcome also.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Based on how good a golfer he is. He won't dominate like he did again but if anything this weekend has been encouraging,yes short game has been off but I'm pretty sure it's something he will sharpen up. 

Why will he not win one?
		
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Because as seen over the last 6 years his game can't produce 4 great rounds over the toughest set up under the toughest scrutiny


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Last year he was awful needed to make some changes and allow the body to heal. 

If he gets back to 2013 form Id back him to win at least one more. A lot of the players Id pick over him haven't won a major either it's an obstacle they would need to overcome also.
		
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When was the last time he really competed in a major? When was the last time he really contended in more than one. Look at the likes of Rose, McIlroy and Scott who are always up there. The likes of Fowler will only continue to improve too and with players like Stenson getting better and better and use to playing at the very top there are more and more players in his way


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

In my opinion, and that's all it is, I think that if Tiger gets properly fit it's more likely he'll win at least one more major than he'll never win another one. He'll never dominate again and I don't see him catching Jack but I'd be genuinely surprised if he never wins another, unless his injury problems continue.


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When was the last time he really competed in a major? When was the last time he really contended in more than one. Look at the likes of Rose, McIlroy and Scott who are always up there. The likes of Fowler will only continue to improve too and with players like Stenson getting better and better and use to playing at the very top there are more and more players in his way
		
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McIlroy will win more no doubt. Scott is coming of a poor season and has not longing left before he has to go back to regular putter how big a difference will that make?

I'd be more worried about Fowlers lack of tournament wins,yes he was challenging but the fact he doesn't win often worries me. 

I think the next crop of major winners will come from the likes of Speith,Stenson,Reed but I definitely think a fit Tiger will put a good enough weekend together to win one more at least. 

All just my opinion of course.


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## CMAC (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



*When was the last time he really competed in a major? When was the last time he really contended in more than one*. Look at the likes of Rose, McIlroy and Scott who are always up there. The likes of Fowler will only continue to improve too and with players like Stenson getting better and better and use to playing at the very top there are more and more players in his way
		
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you've been following his 'problems' the last few years right?

He's starting again with an older and pieced together body, and a mind set that probably now has some doubt where before there was none. I agree he wont dominate but he will still be a major force in Golf for years to come, that I am totally convinced about.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

A major force ? At his age with all his injuries he has had and the way a great number of others are playing these days ( out driving him , better short games , stronger mentally ) what suggests he being a "major" force ? 

Is it more in hope than expectation ? Is it because of who he was before 2008 ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

I can't agree about major force. He may feature in a major or two but I can't see him winning one. Nicklaus record definitely safe


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A major force ? At his age with all his injuries he has had and the way a great number of others are playing these days ( out driving him , better short games , stronger mentally ) what suggests he being a "major" force ? 

Is it more in hope than expectation ? Is it because of who he was before 2008 ?
		
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So lets take his last healthy season 2013 how many better players were there?

By major player in guessing he means winning/challenging for tournaments. He stated he wouldn't dominate again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			So lets take his last healthy season 2013 how many better players were there?

By major player in guessing he means winning/challenging for tournaments. He stated he wouldn't dominate again.
		
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Even in 2013 he didn't challenge for a major 

He will win PGA titles but that's not being a major force - major force is a player like McIlroy or Rose or Kaymer or Stenson right now


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even in 2013 he didn't challenge for a major 

He will win PGA titles but that's not being a major force - major force is a player like McIlroy or Rose or Kaymer or Stenson right now
		
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With the exception of McIroy what is the difference between the other 3 and 2013 Tiger? Kaymer had a good year and won a major I wouldn't say he's a guarantee to keep winning them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			So lets take his last healthy season 2013 how many better players were there?

By major player in guessing he means winning/challenging for tournaments. He stated he wouldn't dominate again.
		
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When was the last year he challenged for a major? He hasn't for ages and with swing changes, injury and the quality of world golf it's getting harder to do so which is why I simply don't think he'll win another. He'll win on tour but is that being a major force? Many players win over the course of a season. If he was to come out and win the FedEx and be the most consistent player over the year then maybe but I don't even think that'll happen


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Both Rose and Kaymer won majors and Stenson Fed Ex 

Those players are getting it done when it matters - they are up there challenging for Majors - Woods last challenged in 2008


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			When was the last year he challenged for a major? He hasn't for ages and with swing changes, injury and the quality of world golf it's getting harder to do so which is why I simply don't think he'll win another. He'll win on tour but is that being a major force? Many players win over the course of a season. If he was to come out and win the FedEx and be the most consistent player over the year then maybe but I don't even think that'll happen
		
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Which is exactly what he did in his last healthy season. 

Multiple winner inc. Players Championship,PGA player of the year and 2nd in FedEx. 

That must be classed as major player or Rory is the only major player in World golf.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Which is exactly what he did in his last healthy season. 

Multiple winner inc. Players Championship,PGA player of the year and 2nd in FedEx. 

That must be classed as major player or Rory is the only major player in World golf.
		
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But he didn't challenge in a major. Jimmy Walker won three times this year - would you call him a "major force"


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Both Rose and Kaymer won majors and Stenson Fed Ex 

Those players are getting it done when it matters - they are up there challenging for Majors - Woods last challenged in 2008
		
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You missed my point you said Rose and Stenson or major players right now. 

So what is the difference between them now and Woods' 2013 when apparently he wasn't a major player in the game?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Still the best ever. He'll win another major,without doubt.
		
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Soft hands said:



			You missed my point you said Rose and Stenson or major players right now. 

So what is the difference between them now and Woods' 2013 when apparently he wasn't a major player in the game?
		
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You were talking about him winning a major.


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But he didn't challenge in a major. Jimmy Walker won three times this year - would you call him a "major force"
		
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Yeah he's one of the better players in the World. Going by the logic on here only McIroy is a major force,is Fowler a major force?


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You were talking about him winning a major.
		
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Which I believe he will. I stated it more as a fact as kept reading opinions he wouldn't as fact when neither of us can be sure.

Fancied a debate as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			You missed my point you said Rose and Stenson or major players right now. 

So what is the difference between them now and Woods' 2013 when apparently he wasn't a major player in the game?
		
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I said that they were a major force in the game right now - because they challenge in the majors and the WGC and step when needed 

Woods hasn't chsllenged for a major since 2008 - even when in 2013 he won 4 or 5 comps he still didn't challenge in the majors.


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I said that they were a major force in the game right now - because they challenge in the majors and the WGC and step when needed 

Woods hasn't chsllenged for a major since 2008 - even when in 2013 he won 4 or 5 comps he still didn't challenge in the majors.
		
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Im just saying their seasons this year and his then are not dissimilar. I can only remember Rose having a realistic chance of major this year US open I may be wrong though. 

In 2013 Woods won the Players' IMO getting back to that level would make him a major force. We never going to agree anyway and neither of us can state for fact either way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Again he hasnt challenged for a major in 6 years 

That's 24 majors have gone by and not once did he realistically challenge in any 

In 2013 Rose won the U.S. Open 

The Players is an overhyped PGA Tour event 

Until something happens to point towards Woods challenging for Majors again he will not be a major force in the game


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again he hasnt challenged for a major in 6 years 

That's 24 majors have gone by and not once did he realistically challenge in any 

In 2013 Rose won the U.S. Open 

The Players is an overhyped PGA Tour event 

Until something happens to point towards Woods challenging for Majors again he will not be a major force in the game
		
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And again if challenging is good enough Fowler is a major force in your eyes even though he doesn't win any events.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			And again if challenging is good enough Fowler is a major force in your eyes even though he doesn't win any events.
		
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Right now Fowler is becoming a major force in golf -


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## Imurg (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			unless his injury problems continue.
		
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And this is what I see as Tiger's biggest challenge - staying fit.
He's had so many injuries and set backs, some pretty serious. Once you have a dodgy back you have a dodgy back. As he gets older it will be harder to keep the back from going again.
If he can stay fit then he will probably win again, PGA, WGC and even a Major.
But that's a big "IF"....and I don't see it happening.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again he hasnt challenged for a major in 6 years 

That's 24 majors have gone by and not once did he realistically challenge in any 

In 2013 Rose won the U.S. Open 

The Players is an overhyped PGA Tour event 

Until something happens to point towards Woods challenging for Majors again he will not be a major force in the game
		
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Twisting the facts to suit your conceit, I'm afraid.

He's had nine top tens in majors since he last won one - two top ten finishes in 2013.

The players is widely acknowledged as an "unofficial 5th Major" - it's more than an ordinary tour event.


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now Fowler is becoming a major force in golf -
		
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I agree,which is why Tiger is!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Twisting the facts to suit your conceit, I'm afraid.

He's had nine top tens in majors since he last won one - two top ten finishes in 2013.

The players is widely acknowledged as an "unofficial 5th Major" - it's more than an ordinary tour event.
		
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Having a top ten finish doesn't mean he challenged to actually win it 

Unless you can point to a major where he actually challenged to win it ?

And the players is widely acknowledged by the PGA at the "5th major" because they hype that way - doesn't mean it is. Believe McIlroy has given it a miss in recent years - plus a few other players as you need a PGA tour card to enter - so over hyped PGA event.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now Fowler is becoming a major force in golf -
		
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I rate Fowler but your argument is just perverse. You dismiss Tiger's performance in 2013 (the last season he was mostly fit - he still had an injury break) and yet herald Fowler.

In 2013 Tiger won 5 times, including two WGCs and the players and was top ten in two of the majors. Rickie doesn't even compare to that.

I'm no Tiger fan but you are talking a load of nonsense on this subject. Take the blinkers off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I rate Fowler but your argument is just perverse. You dismiss Tiger's performance in 2013 (the last season he was mostly fit - he still had an injury break) and yet herald Fowler.

In 2013 Tiger won 5 times, including two WGCs and the players and was top ten in two of the majors. Rickie doesn't even compare to that.

I'm no Tiger fan but you are talking a load of nonsense on this subject. Take the blinkers off.
		
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I said Fowler is "becoming" a major force as witnessed by his consistent performances in the majors this year - emphasis on the "becoming"

Woods had a great season in 2013 on the PGA Tour - not one person has denied that 

Again Woods didn't "challenge" in any of the majors - coming in the top ten doesn't automatically mean challenge 

In 2013 in the Masters he was never near challenging same with in the Open ( his top ten places in major in 2013 )


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I rate Fowler but your argument is just perverse. You dismiss Tiger's performance in 2013 (the last season he was mostly fit - he still had an injury break) and yet herald Fowler.

In 2013 Tiger won 5 times, including two WGCs and the players and was top ten in two of the majors. Rickie doesn't even compare to that.

I'm no Tiger fan but you are talking a load of nonsense on this subject. Take the blinkers off.
		
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Fowler is indeed flattering to deceive with his progress, yet lack of real magic! He does have the advantage of time over Woods, but there are plenty of young guns moving up a lot faster than either!


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In 2013 in the Masters he was never near challenging same with in the Open ( his top ten places in major in 2013 )
		
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Easy to say but only one outrageous piece of bad luck kept him out of the playoff. (And then an equally outrageous piece of good luck stopped him being DQ'd; but that's a whole other thread)


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

Short game in total disarray again. Three rounds in and a player of his quality reduced to putting from way off the green or using a 4 iron


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I rate Fowler but your argument is just perverse. You dismiss Tiger's performance in 2013 (the last season he was mostly fit - he still had an injury break) and yet herald Fowler.

In 2013 Tiger won 5 times, including two WGCs and the players and was top ten in two of the majors. Rickie doesn't even compare to that.

I'm no Tiger fan but you are talking a load of nonsense on this subject. Take the blinkers off.
		
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Give up trying to reason with LP, he'd argue with himself if he had to


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Easy to say but only one outrageous piece of bad luck kept him out of the playoff. (And then an equally outrageous piece of good luck stopped him being DQ'd; but that's a whole other thread)
		
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So he didn't challenge then ?

So is my point about him in the past 24 majors not valid then ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Give up trying to reason with LP, he'd argue with himself if he had to
		
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Is my reasoning not valid then ?

No one yet has pointed to a reason why he will suddenly start being a major force and winning majors ?

If it's more hope than anything else then fair enough but appears the statements are stronger than that 

If my opinion about Woods isn't valid then point out why


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is my reasoning not valid then ?

No one yet has pointed to a reason why he will suddenly start being a major force and winning majors ?

If it's more hope than anything else then fair enough but appears the statements are stronger than that 

If my opinion about Woods isn't valid then point out why
		
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I and several others already have, can'rt be bothered to repeat the same thing over and over again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I and several others already have, can'rt be bothered to repeat the same thing over and over again.
		
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Yes you and others keep pointing to a time in the past - 2013 when he won a few pga titles 

Has he challenged for a major since 2008 ? Yes or no

Why is it not allowed to question statements like - major force and will win a major ?!


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So he didn't challenge then ?

So is my point about him in the past 24 majors not valid then ?
		
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Nope. He was in contention and even more so in the 2013 Open.


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## Tongo (Dec 6, 2014)

liverpoolphil said:



			yes you and others keep pointing to a time in the past - 2013 when he won a few pga titles 

*has he challenged for a major since 2008 ? Yes or no*

why is it not allowed to question statements like - major force and will win a major ?!
		
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2009 uspga


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes you and others keep pointing to a time in the past - 2013 when he won a few pga titles 

Has he challenged for a major since 2008 ? Yes or no

Why is it not allowed to question statements like - major force and will win a major ?!
		
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2013 was only LAST YEAR!

Yes he challenged for two majors in 2013. (Unless your criteria for challenging means still being in it when you tee off on the 72nd hole?)


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## Tongo (Dec 6, 2014)

He was there or there abouts for much of the last day at the 2012 Open until 3 consecutive bogies on the back 9.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			2013 was only LAST YEAR!

Yes he challenged for two majors in 2013. (Unless your criteria for challenging means still being in it when you tee off on the 72nd hole?)
		
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Challenging for me actually means looking like you can win it going into the back 9 

The last time was 2009 as Tongo said when he went head to head with YE Yang 

If you believe he looked like he could win in any major in 2013 then fair enough - certainly not my recollection whilst watching them 

In the Masters it was all about Cabrera and Scott and the Open was Mickelson. 

And that point is as valid as any of the ones in regards Woods being a force again. 

I will never understand why when it comes to Woods people suddenly leap on anything negative in regards him.

I have said he will win titles again just don't expect him to win a major or be a major force in the game again - that's based on everything that has happened since his last major win in regards Woods age , injuries and play plus the standard of all the others players on the tour on both sides of the Atlantic - that point is valid


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So he didn't challenge then ?

So is my point about him in the past 24 majors not valid then ?
		
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It's more your view as what constitutes a 'major force' that is flawed. 

Better to to challenge and win nothing then win.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			It's more your view as what constitutes a 'major force' that is flawed. 

*Better to to challenge and win nothing then win.*

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When did I state that ?

A major force is a player like Stenson , Rose , McIlroy etc - players who not only win PGA conps but challenge and win majors or Fed Ex 

Players went it comes to the big comps are there challenging to win


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did I state that ?

A major force is a player like Stenson , Rose , McIlroy etc - players who not only win PGA conps but challenge and win majors or Fed Ex 

Players went it comes to the big comps are there challenging to win
		
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You do realise that Tiger has more top 10s in majors than Stenson in the last 5 years don't you? Or is that a fact that gets in the way of your valid point?


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Challenging for me actually means looking like you can win it going into the back 9 

The last time was 2009 as Tongo said when he went head to head with YE Yang 

If you believe he looked like he could win in any major in 2013 then fair enough - certainly not my recollection whilst watching them 

In the Masters it was all about Cabrera and Scott and the Open was Mickelson. 

And that point is as valid as any of the ones in regards Woods being a force again. 

I will never understand why when it comes to Woods people suddenly leap on anything negative in regards him.

I have said he will win titles again just don't expect him to win a major or be a major force in the game again - that's based on everything that has happened since his last major win in regards Woods age , injuries and play plus the standard of all the others players on the tour on both sides of the Atlantic - that point is valid
		
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After 54 holes in the 2013 Open woods was 2 shots off the lead. That's contending. Mickelson was three shots further back before playing one of the rounds of his life to win. Tiger had a bad round but certainly could have won that day.

I'm no Tiger fan, in fact I root against him in the majors - I don't want him to win another one. But I'm not against him to the point of closing my mind to the facts. LAST YEAR he was the most dominant golfer - world no 1 etc. etc. The only thing missing was a major. He was a major force in golf LAST YEAR so of course he can be again.

If I was going to list the "big" players for next year it'd be guys like Rory, Bubba, Speith, Fowler, Phil, Scott, Stenson, Rose, Kaymer. Of course Woods would be in that company - no longer the main man but definitely one of the top dogs; IF he gets and stays fit.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			After 56 holes in the 2013 Open woods was 2 shots off the lead. That's contending. Mickelson was three shots further back before playing one of the rounds of his life to win. Tiger had a bad round but certainly could have won that day.

I'm no Tiger fan, in fact I root against him in the majors - I don't want him to win another one. But I'm not against him to the point of closing my mind to the facts. LAST YEAR he was the most dominant golfer - world no 1 etc. etc. The only thing missing was a major. He was a major force in golf LAST YEAR so of course he can be again.

If I was going to list the "big" players for next year it'd be guys like Rory, Bubba, Speith, Fowler, Phil, Scott, Stenson, Rose, Kaymer. Of course Woods would be in that company - no longer the main man but definitely one of the top dogs; IF he gets and stays fit.
		
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Well said FD, take time to read this Phil, it sums up exactly what people have been trying to get through to you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			You do realise that Tiger has more top 10s in majors than Stenson in the last 5 years don't you? Or is that a fact that gets in the way of your valid point?
		
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Again Top Tens don't automaticaly mean challenging 

Being in the lead after 56 holes doesn't mean challenging 

Being in contention on the back 9 on the final day in my opinion is challenging for a major 

To say he "could have won" but had a bad round is valid for every single golfer in the comp.

Again it's all down to "opinion" on what people consitute "challenging" and "major force"

In 2013 ( nearly two years ago in a couple weeks ) he won 4 tournaments in 4 months and looked like he was getting back to being a force ( again my opinion ) but in the majors he didn't challenge ( again my opinion ) - he then won on a favourite course in the July or August I think it was so coming up to 14 months ago now and since then more poor play and more injuries 

So to summarise 

I believe he will win some PGA titles - possibly a WGC at Firestone but I don't expect him to win a major again or in fact come close. 

When people list big players or bookies pick favs etc a great deal of that is on reputation 

Believe age , health and other people on tour having better all round games than him will mean he will not win a major 

(Answering both yours and FD posts )


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## Tongo (Dec 6, 2014)

I similarly dont think that Woods will dominate the game again like he has done in the past but golf is probably the one sport where he has a chance of still winning a major title such is the random nature of the game. Hence why Tom Watson almost won the Open at 59 and Greg Norman at 53. Also why Ben Curtis, Shaun Micheel and Todd Hamilton are major champions. For me, its far too random a game to confidently predict that Woods wont win another major.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Well said FD, take time to read this Phil, it sums up exactly what people have been trying to get through to you.
		
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Thanks Hawkeye, I rest my case!

Phil - looks like we disagree. :cheers:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			After 54 holes in the 2013 Open woods was 2 shots off the lead. That's contending. Mickelson was three shots further back before playing one of the rounds of his life to win. Tiger had a bad round but certainly could have won that day.

I'm no Tiger fan, in fact I root against him in the majors - I don't want him to win another one. But I'm not against him to the point of closing my mind to the facts. LAST YEAR he was the most dominant golfer - world no 1 etc. etc. The only thing missing was a major. He was a major force in golf LAST YEAR so of course he can be again.

If I was going to list the "big" players for next year it'd be guys like Rory, Bubba, Speith, Fowler, Phil, Scott, Stenson, Rose, Kaymer. Of course Woods would be in that company - no longer the main man but definitely one of the top dogs; IF he gets and stays fit.
		
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Thing is all the time it is LAST YEAR. Did not contend in the two Majors THIS YEAR that he played in and we none of us can successfully fight Old Father Time. 

Whatever the sport there comes a time when the greats have to accept that their time has passed. Each injury and recovery period generally only serves to hasten this process.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 7, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Thing is all the time it is LAST YEAR. Did not contend in the two Majors THIS YEAR that he played in and we none of us can successfully fight Old Father Time. 

Whatever the sport there comes a time when the greats have to accept that their time has passed. Each injury and recovery period generally only serves to hasten this process.
		
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The Open was his second tournament after back surgery, the PGA he was clearly injured - did you really expect him to challenge.

The point people seem to be missing is that you don't need To be contending regularly in majors to win a major, here are some results from recent major winners for the four majors before they won;

Ernie: Cut, Cut, Didn't qualify, 9th
Rose: T21, Cut, 3rd, T25
Bubba: T50, T32, T32, Cut
Mickleson: Cut, T56, T34, T2
Kaymer: T59, T32, T33, T31
Dufner: T27, T20, 4th, T26
McIlroy: Cut, T8, T8, T23
Scott: T8, T15, 2nd, T11

Winners of Majors rarely contend consistently before they win so what Tiger did this year while injured or coming back from injury is irrelevent.

What is relevent is his injuries. He may not win another but if he can get back to fitness, I still haven't read a logical reason how anyone could categorically write him off.


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## Val (Dec 7, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			Last year he was awful needed to make some changes and allow the body to heal. 

If he gets back to 2013 form Id back him to win at least one more. A lot of the players Id pick over him haven't won a major either it's an obstacle they would need to overcome also.
		
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If his form was that good in 2013, why didn't he win one then?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 7, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Winners of Majors rarely contend consistently before they win so what Tiger did this year while injured or coming back from injury is irrelevent.

What is relevent is his injuries. He may not win another but if he can get back to fitness, I still haven't read a logical reason how anyone could categorically write him off.
		
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Well I have not written him off. What I have said is that due to his age and, most importantly, his fitness issues the odds are stacked against him.

To suggest his performances in The Open and USPGA were irrelevant is disingenuous at best.

They are entirely relevant as they highlight the difficulties he faces.

Any top sportsman in the latter stages of his career has to accept these problems and the severity and nature of his injuries only make "fighting against the fading of the light" harder for Tiger.

It appears that, on this forum, if I am not a Tiger fan I must be a Tiger hater and that has coloured my remarks, this not true but it would seem that now might be the right time for some of the Tiger fans to face up to the reality of his position.


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## OldMate (Dec 7, 2014)

Val said:



			If his form was that good in 2013, why didn't he win one then?
		
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Countless players have had years like Tiger's 2013 and not won a major.  He still finished top 6 in two of them.  Not winning a major is hardly an argument against the fact that he had a good year.


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## Val (Dec 7, 2014)

OldMate said:



			Countless players have had years like Tiger's 2013 and not won a major.  He still finished top 6 in two of them.  Not winning a major is hardly an argument against the fact that he had a good year.
		
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You miss my point or misinterprete my post. It was suggested if he gets back to the form of 2013 he'll definitely win a major, I merely asked why if his form was that good then why didn't he win one in 2013.


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## Soft hands (Dec 7, 2014)

Val said:



			You miss my point or misinterprete my post. It was suggested if he gets back to the form of 2013 he'll definitely win a major, I merely asked why if his form was that good then why didn't he win one in 2013.
		
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I said he would definitely win one as people were saying he would definitely not. 

None of us no for sure,but if he regains that form of 2013 he has as good a chance as most.


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## Val (Dec 7, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			I said he would definitely win one as people were saying he would definitely not. 

None of us no for sure,but if he regains that form of 2013 he has as good a chance as most.
		
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Nice back track


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2014)

Tiger finally showing signs of getting it back together a bit. Some nice solid shots, an up and down, decent par putt and now some birdies. Would be good if he could shoot a number in the 60's to finish


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## pokerjoke (Dec 7, 2014)

WOW  Tiger has just duffed 2 chips and then just hit a 3rd like he didn't care.

Lump on the bet for Tiger to win no majors next year at 5/4 money for nothing.


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## JCW (Dec 7, 2014)

just watch a clip of Tiger  duffing chip after chip , it is not good , I was a guy who could get it up and down from anyway and lost it and i was duffing chips like that and  it gets into your head and then your hands after a bit and it is hard to get it back , took me a long time and and it much better now . also saw them giving odds of him winning a major again , cockoo land  these guys are in


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## Tiger Woods (Sep 24, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Even in 2013 when Woods was back at No1 he still didn't challenge for a major

Those players won a major because they got 4 rounds in a major in - Woods hasn't done that since 2008 and there isn't much to point towards him doing it

Overall the viewing of golf is better without Woods , the game has moved on now and can stand on its own without Woods.

Woods is now part of the sport instead of being the sport.

He achieved great things but it's now past his time.
		
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Heres one for the local expert...

2016





2018


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## pokerjoke (Sep 24, 2018)

pokerjoke said:



			WOW  Tiger has just duffed 2 chips and then just hit a 3rd like he didn't care.

Lump on the bet for Tiger to win no majors next year at 5/4 money for nothing.
		
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Looks like I was spot on,hope some filled their boots.


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## Capella (Sep 24, 2018)

Seriously? You dig up a four year old thread just for a "told you so?"


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## Tiger Woods (Sep 24, 2018)

The haters are rattled


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## User20205 (Sep 24, 2018)

Tiger Woods said:



			The haters are rattled 

Click to expand...

U still here?


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## User 99 (Sep 24, 2018)

Some people are looking very foolish today


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## Fade and Die (Sep 24, 2018)

Tiger Woods said:



			The haters are rattled 

Click to expand...


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2018)

RandG said:



			Some people are looking very foolish today 

Click to expand...

Why ? Because they thought a guy who could hardly walk without pain would struggle to win again ?

I suspect most of the golfing world thought the same including himself when he doubted he would even ever play on tour again but his self determination got him back in again

People donâ€™t look foolish on opinions four years plus ago - still got a long to go yet

People could go through the forum searching for plenty of posts that have turned out to not be true but then they arenâ€™t that pathetic to do that - well most people arenâ€™t


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2018)

4 years, you were still saying it 4 days ago Phil


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 24, 2018)

RandG said:



			Some people are looking very foolish today 

Click to expand...

Yup, the trolls dragging up old threads to try and point score.

Anyone who did think Tiger was done shared their opinion with a certain professional golfer; here's a clue.

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/tour-news/nick-faldo-tiger-woods-done-162327


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2018)

fundy said:



			4 years, you were still saying it 4 days ago Phil 

Click to expand...

I know I was and he proved me wrong , I havenâ€™t hidden from that fact nor would i , still confident he wonâ€™t win a major but i have no doubt that if he does I will again put my hand up - quite happy to say that but dragging up three or four threads from 4/5 years ago is pathetic as well as some coming out of the shadows to point fingers. The worst of Woods winning comes to the fore pretty quickly - all others in golf get forgotten.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 24, 2018)

RandG said:



			Some people are looking very foolish today 

Click to expand...

Yeah I agree.....especially some adult pretending to be a sporting icon on a golf forum


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## Tiger Woods (Sep 24, 2018)

This is hitting all of the right spots... Thanks for not disappointing guys


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 24, 2018)

Having started this thread when he came back and struggled I am full of amazement and respect for coming back so well and beating the best players around at the moment on a course that couldn't just be bullied taking driver on every hole. It needed accuracy patience and a great short game and Woods proved he's still got that in abundance. I hope of course this week it all disappears and Europe wins the RC. Can he win another major? Well after coming back to winning so quickly and so well I think Augusta will be firmly on his mind already


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 24, 2018)

Tiger Woods said:



			This is hitting all of the right spots... Thanks for not disappointing guys 

Click to expand...

Tell you what......why don't you prove you are the real guy and make a small donation to our H4H page? After all, it is to support servicemen which should be close to your heart what with your father and all that. I'm sure you can spare a few quid out of your winners cheque from yesterday


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2018)

drive4show said:



			Tell you what......why don't you prove you are the real guy and make a small donation to our H4H page? After all, it is to support servicemen which should be close to your heart what with your father and all that. I'm sure you can spare a few quid out of your winners cheque from yesterday  

Click to expand...

you just need a Justin Rose troll user, he'll have a few more quid than this guy after yesterday


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## Tiger Woods (Sep 24, 2018)

drive4show said:



			Tell you what......why don't you prove you are the real guy and make a small donation to our H4H page? After all, it is to support servicemen which should be close to your heart what with your father and all that. I'm sure you can spare a few quid out of your winners cheque from yesterday  

Click to expand...

Send me the link.


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 24, 2018)

www.justgiving.com/GolfMonthlyForumHFH2018


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## Tiger Woods (Sep 24, 2018)

Done, I wanted to add a few more 0â€™s but the button suddenly stopped working 

Good luck with it all


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2018)

Tiger Woods said:



			Done, I wanted to add a few more 0â€™s but the button suddenly stopped working 

Good luck with it all 

Click to expand...

ðŸ‘ fair play to you ðŸ‘


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 24, 2018)

Tiger has made a donation (its on the website)
so thank you for that and lets leave him to gloat in peace


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## Tiger Woods (Sep 24, 2018)

Iâ€™m all done guys... peace


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## Orikoru (Sep 25, 2018)

Instead of finding all the examples of people who thought he was done, why not see if you can find a single example of someone saying they were confident he would come back and win again? I bet that's a lot more difficult.


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## Crazyface (Sep 25, 2018)

Never in doubt in my mind. He's a winner. Winners NEVER give up. (not sure if I predicted this though).


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## User 99 (Sep 25, 2018)

This is where I didn't think he'd be back, particularly from the 2 minute mark to 2.50, his walking and him sitting down.


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