# Membership in decline...



## Tiger (May 15, 2013)

So I'm finally getting round to reading the Darren Clarke GM edition and was intrigued by two things. Firstly good luck to the guys at the Centurion Club. From the photos I saw it looked good but not as good as their proposed pricing model. The second thing was the clothing debate, or more crucially the premise under which the article was started...

The suggestion was that golf club membership was reducing and ageing and that somehow this was linked to dress codes. I don't think there's evidence of this and think the problems are more to do with the speed, cost and brand of the game.

When I think about why I hadn't started golf sooner it was because I believed the game was too expensive, took too long and was for old people. What's worse is now I play golf I recognise that it costs me a fortune, takes so long my Mrs gives me earache every time I play and is predominantly played by older people...

So what do you think needs to be done to boost club membership?


----------



## StrangelyBrown (May 15, 2013)

Tiger said:



			So what do you think needs to be done to boost club membership?
		
Click to expand...

1. It needs to be cheaper.
2. It needs to encourage younger, more open-minded people to participate.
3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

The last one is the most difficult to change, because they are not just perceptions / stereotypes. They exist. Even on this forum, I'm sorry to say.


----------



## dufferman (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			1. It needs to be cheaper.
2. It needs to encourage younger, more open-minded people to participate.
3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

The last one is the most difficult to change, because they are not just perceptions / stereotypes. They exist. Even on this forum, I'm sorry to say.
		
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. The posts I see on here absolutely astound me, and yet people wonder why this game we all love isn't as popular as it could be.

What's worse, I truly believe that many of these people _DO NOT_ want the sport to change, and would rather the sport die out with them and their way of playing than flourish for the next generation!


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			1. It needs to be cheaper.
2. It needs to encourage younger, more open-minded people to participate.
3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

The last one is the most difficult to change, because they are not just perceptions / stereotypes. They exist. Even on this forum, I'm sorry to say.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I actually agree with these views. I think the problem is a bit more deep rooted than this. Modern kids are spending much less time partaking in sport and more time on games consoles and PC's. And I think this is coming from the attitudes of schools and 'compensation cultures' where they don't encourage sport anymore in case someone gets injured and the school gets sued. 

Start encouraging kids to play more sport and there will be more people getting into golf, after all it is quite a cool sport with people like Woods and McIlroy as ambassadors.


----------



## cs1986 (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			1. It needs to be cheaper.
2. It needs to encourage younger, more open-minded people to participate.
3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

The last one is the most difficult to change, because they are not just perceptions / stereotypes. They exist. Even on this forum, I'm sorry to say.
		
Click to expand...

Must admit whenever I go playing golf wether it be at the driving range, in the club shop, on the putting green or even in american golf, there is always someone there who I feel is arrogant and is looking down at you. Maybe its my own paranoia but just the way some people look at you when in a golf establishment says 'What are you doing here?'

I also think membership fees should be cheaper. Â£1000 a year for example is damn expensive, especially in the current climate!


----------



## Bucket92 (May 15, 2013)

I've heard a few of my mates say that they don't understand why golfers have to wear such stupid clothes, could be a reason for a lot of people not wanting to try it?


----------



## sydney greenstreet (May 15, 2013)

I do not think golf is as expensive as it once was, when I was a lad it was very expensive and felt snobby, nowadays you can get a starter set for under Â£100, maybe not the best but I played Dunlop 65i irons until a few years ago at a cost of Â£4.99 a club and got down to a hcp of 14, so when some high cappers pay 3 or 4 hundred pounds for irons and still play off 28. It can be expensive but only if you want it too. Consider a game of football that costs about Â£25 a ticket for 90 mins of action and a round of golf for the same price for 3 hours of fun.


----------



## Slab (May 15, 2013)

I heard recently that there was only one or two sports not in decline (Lingerie Football being one, google it if you don't believe it exists) 

But for golf I'd have to say that cost is a huge barrier for many while a real/perceived lack of welcoming playable short courses with learning/practice areas at a keen vfm price

This perception may come from too many courses being private clubs, located behind wrought iron gates and long driveways (not that these need to change dramatically, only that more welcoming open facilities need to exist)


----------



## dufferman (May 15, 2013)

scratch said:



			I'm not sure if I actually agree with these views. I think the problem is a bit more deep rooted than this. Modern kids are spending much less time partaking in sport and more time on games consoles and PC's. And I think this is coming from the attitudes of schools and 'compensation cultures' where they don't encourage sport anymore in case someone gets injured and the school gets sued. 

Start encouraging kids to play more sport and there will be more people getting into golf, after all it is quite a cool sport with people like Woods and McIlroy as ambassadors.
		
Click to expand...

Even if the government / councils / schools did start encouraging more sport in youngsters, Golf wouldn't be top of the list. Tennis, Football, Rugby, Hockey, Cricket, Rounders, Netball, Basketball, Badminton, all aspect of track & field all get a look in over golf because of the cost and space needed. Could you imagine a school group of 13-16 year old's popping to your course for an hour golf lesson out on the course? Nope, neither can I.

Saying that, I played bank holiday Monday with my mate and his 6 year old son came along for the day. He stayed in the buggy on the course, except for Tees & Greens where he hit a few shots & putts - he was quite into it and felt like a grown up which I guess helped. He couldn't play for toffee's BTW, he's not a McIlroy in the making. The Marshall on the course said nothing, didn't give us a hard time, and we weren't holding up play at all. 

I feel that had that of happened on other courses I play, there would be many people to jump on the 'GET THAT CHILD OFF THE COURSE' bandwagon, as there will be on here. Goes back to some people not wanting to change the view of old men in plus 4's smoking pipes and what not!


----------



## MegaSteve (May 15, 2013)

In general the 'ordinary working man/woman' doesn't have as much disposable income as he/she say had a decade or so ago [when 'the game' was booming]... When that 'problem' is 'cured' I am sure the game will get looked again at by the 'masses' and boom times will return...


----------



## triple_bogey (May 15, 2013)

Tiger said:



			So I'm finally getting round to reading the Darren Clarke GM edition and was intrigued by two things. Firstly good luck to the guys at the Centurion Club. From the photos I saw it looked good but not as good as their proposed pricing model. The second thing was the clothing debate, or more crucially the premise under which the article was started...

The suggestion was that golf club membership was reducing and ageing and that somehow this was linked to dress codes. I don't think there's evidence of this and think the problems are more to do with the speed, cost and brand of the game.

When I think about why I hadn't started golf sooner it was because I believed the game was too expensive, took too long and was for old people. What's worse is now I play golf I recognise that it costs me a fortune, takes so long my Mrs gives me earache every time I play and is predominantly played by older people...

So what do you think needs to be done to boost club membership?
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree with point 3. The thing is, these types want to keep it old fashioned. As a way of keeping the ruffian's out.

Are we talking about the decline of membership in the UK only or is it worldwide? Not read the article.


----------



## Sharktooth (May 15, 2013)

R



sydney greenstreet said:



			I do not think golf is as expensive as it once was, when I was a lad it was very expensive and felt snobby, nowadays you can get a starter set for under Â£100, maybe not the best but I played Dunlop 65i irons until a few years ago at a cost of Â£4.99 a club and got down to a hcp of 14, so when some high cappers pay 3 or 4 hundred pounds for irons and still play off 28. It can be expensive but only if you want it too. Consider a game of football that costs about Â£25 a ticket for 90 mins of action and a round of golf for the same price for *3 hours of fun*.
		
Click to expand...

3 hours of fun? Or 3 hours of frustrations, highs, lows, rushes and contemplations of suicide perhaps?


----------



## rosecott (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

The last one is the most difficult to change, because they are not just perceptions / stereotypes. They exist. Even on this forum, I'm sorry to say.
		
Click to expand...

Are you talking about me?


----------



## dazzio78 (May 15, 2013)

Bucket92 said:



			I've heard a few of my mates say that they don't understand why golfers have to wear such stupid clothes, could be a reason for a lot of people not wanting to try it?
		
Click to expand...

On the other hand, a guy at work said he'd like to get into golf just because of the clothes that you can wear   To balance that, he went on to say that he felt he needed to be a bit older to play golf (he's mid 20's)...


----------



## StrangelyBrown (May 15, 2013)

rosecott said:



			Are you talking about me?
		
Click to expand...

Only you yourself can answer that.


----------



## rosecott (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			Only you yourself can answer that.
		
Click to expand...

I could probably claim 5 out of 10.


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			1. It needs to be cheaper.
2. It needs to encourage younger, more open-minded people to participate.
3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

The last one is the most difficult to change, because they are not just perceptions / stereotypes. They exist. Even on this forum, I'm sorry to say.
		
Click to expand...

I think the second point is the most important, but as you say they have to be open minded and get beyond their preconceptions and give the game a chance.  
They'll never know if the game is for them unless they get out on a course and give it a go. Theres now Golf clubs/courses  in most Towns and cities to suit most Attitudes and budgets.

The Majority of most established golf clubs membership is always going to be aged 50+ as they have more disposable cash and more time on their hands.  I don't think this will ever change. its not a fact that would ever bother me but Most Kids/ teenagers don't want to be associated with a game that's predominantly played by others that are at least 20 years older than them, unfortunately it's Just not Cool. 

I left a very highly rated Golf club due to reasons mentioned in the 3rd point, but I don't begrudge the club existing the way it does. There's plenty of other clubs out there for me to join with members that I seem to have more in common with.

I think what I'm trying to say is that initially it takes a certain type of person to take up golf, Someone who's willing to get out there and give it a go and some who likes a challenge.
Personally, I'd say as a sporty type I was always going to take up the game it was just a matter of when. No type of preconception was going to put me off. If I come across someone who's attitude I don't like I just steer clear.


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

rosecott said:



			I could probably claim 5 out of 10.
		
Click to expand...

Only 5? Hell, I can beat that with my eyes closed behind my copy of the Times in The Men only Lounge.......


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

FWIW, one of the biggest barriers to the growth of golf is that most people only take it up when they're over 30. Kids don't want to play it because it's perceived as slow, boring and stuffy (my 9 yr old sons words, not mine). Encourage kids to play and the game will grow, or at least stop declining at as fast a rate.


----------



## triple_bogey (May 15, 2013)

I seen lots of kids really get into the game. They in time start to get better and only when they do show that commitment, do the parents start to think about membership. And this is where I think they start to lose heart. I've seen it happen at my old clubs and at courses where I've been a guest. 
The older esteemed members start the bullying (or however you see it) tactics. That ''children should be seen and not heard'' mentality'' is very ripe and alive.
Some I've seen have been reduced to tears.......:sbox:


----------



## Coatsy79 (May 15, 2013)

Memberships need to be cheaper or create a new level of membership that is cheaper 

Around Â£4/500 a year and I'd join somewhere in a heartbeat but at Â£7/800+ where I live it's just too much, especially as I'm a 33 year old with a full time job and a 2 year old son I'm lucky if I can get 9 holes a week in most of the time so at Â£800 a year I can't justify it 

I guess I'm quite lucky that I have a father in law who's happy to take me along to his club but its still Â£13 for 9 holes every time


----------



## In_The_Rough (May 15, 2013)

triple_bogey said:



			I seen lots of kids really get into the game. They in time start to get better and only when they do show that commitment, do the parents start to think about membership. And this is where I think they start to lose heart. I've seen it happen at my old clubs and at courses where I've been a guest. 
The older esteemed members start the bullying (or however you see it) tactics. That ''children should be seen and not heard'' mentality'' is very ripe and alive.
Some I've seen have been reduced to tears.......:sbox:
		
Click to expand...

True- Normally the senior members as well that think the course belongs to them and no one else. One of their crew actually went up to a junior group and gave them a right mouthful because he claimed they were holding him up, these juniors were only 8-10 years old and were playing in a club junior comp. The member is also one of those that never waves anyone through etc. Needless to say he got a letter sent and asked to attend a club meeting which resulted in him being banned from the course for a month, shocking behaviour. They also moan that the juniors are playing all day every day in the 6 week holiday in the summer forgetting the fact that they hardly use the course during school time.


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			True- Normally the senior members as well that think the course belongs to them and no one else. One of their crew actually went up to a junior group and gave them a right mouthful because he claimed they were holding him up, these juniors were only 8-10 years old and were playing in a club junior comp. The member is also one of those that never waves anyone through etc. Needless to say he got a letter sent and asked to attend a club meeting which resulted in him being banned from the course for a month, shocking behaviour. They also moan that the juniors are playing all day every day in the 6 week holiday in the summer forgetting the fact that they hardly use the course during school time.
		
Click to expand...

Seen similar behaviour at my course. It's not common, but it happens. Saw one old fella walk at least 200 yards to rollock a 3 ball of 12-14 year olds because one lads shirt had come untucked at the back. He then walked the 200 yards back to his mobility golf buggy that he has special permission to use all year round, whatever the weather...


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

It's hard enough getting kids to play Football nowadays never mind golf.  Our national football teams are going to be terrible in 10 years time due to kids not growing up playing the game,we'll be getting battered by Andorra and Lichtenstein.
 Fortunately though they'll all be wizards on an iPhone 14.


----------



## Simbo (May 15, 2013)

While the snobby attitude still exists, I think it's not as bad as it used to be. Memberships are in decline because of the economy in the country in general, it's not exclusive to golf!!! Football season tickets are down, I used to run a car club which in the last few years has lost 60% of its memberships since I was there. 
Somebody with a bit clout needs to cut a deal with mr sunshine!!! 600 quid a year and we are lucky tk get 3 months decent golfing weather, to trek round a swamp in the pouring rain for 4 hours isn't that appealing. I think it's mostly older gents that play because they have done lifes expectations-trying to run businesses/ buying their first home/getting married/ having kids, all of which generally occurs from early 20's to mid 30's range.  Their kids are now grown up and things therefor have more time on their hands plus a bit more surplus cash.


----------



## MegaSteve (May 15, 2013)

Would seem this thread is working towards suggesting compulsory euthanasia for all golfers at 50 being the way forward ...


----------



## guest100718 (May 15, 2013)

Joining fees, high membership fees, slow play, old fogies who think they own the course, long socks...


----------



## MadAdey (May 15, 2013)

I just think a lot of the problem is the cost. A couple of lads at work have just started playing. Fortunatley Valentino has offloaded a couple of sets of irons to them for a good price to help them get going. But lets say you go out and get a second hand set of reasonable irons, a driver, a 3w a putter and a bag. So that is already about Â£500 speant. Chuck in some half decent shoes, a couple of set of clothes, some balls, gloves, tees etc and you are now up to about Â£700. Cheap membership round here so you can play at a reasonable local pay and play course for Â£600 a year. So first year is sorted and you are well in excess of Â£1000 spent. With so many young people struggling on minimum wages I am not suprised they find golf to be a sport that they can't afford.


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

Id hazard a guess that if you start to reduce membership fees at private clubs your going to see the standard/condition of the course suffer.


----------



## In_The_Rough (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Seen similar behaviour at my course. It's not common, but it happens. Saw one old fella walk at least 200 yards to rollock a 3 ball of 12-14 year olds because one lads shirt had come untucked at the back. He then walked the 200 yards back to his mobility golf buggy that he has special permission to use all year round, whatever the weather...
		
Click to expand...

Bet the juniors had proper golf wear on as well by golf brands. He will be the type that has an old creased up jumper with a rip or two on it with his tatty trousers the you would not use as a floor cloth. Wish I had been there with the juniors I would told him where to go in no uncertain terms


----------



## Coatsy79 (May 15, 2013)

Qwerty said:



			Id hazard a guess that if you start to reduce membership fees at private clubs your going to see the standard/condition of the course suffer.
		
Click to expand...

Would they though, if the subs were Â£450 instead of Â£750, I'd join and so would the guy I play with, at Â£750 neither of us can join, so it's Â£900 and 2 new members or nothing? 

More people might join and play at cheaper rates


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

Coatsy79 said:



			Would they though, if the subs were Â£450 instead of Â£750, I'd join and so would the guy I play with, at Â£750 neither of us can join, so it's Â£900 and 2 new members or nothing? 

More people might join and play at cheaper rates
		
Click to expand...

But then you get twice the footfall at only 20% increase in fees. Ergo (word of the day), condition of course would suffer. It might be a bit simplistic, but there are plenty on here who have lots more knowledge of this area than me...


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

Qwerty said:



			Id hazard a guess that if you start to reduce membership fees at private clubs your going to see the standard/condition of the course suffer.
		
Click to expand...

See point 3 post number 2.


----------



## User20205 (May 15, 2013)

Slab said:



			I heard recently that there was only one or two sports not in decline (Lingerie Football being one, google it if you don't believe it exists)
		
Click to expand...

this is 100% true, most traditional  sports are losing active members, there is too much competition. The rugby club I used to play at now fields 3 teams, 10 years ago it was 5. The RFU lost a huge chunk of lottery funding recently becuase of decling numbers. 

I don't really want more members at my club, i'd rather pay more and still be able to turn up when I want and get around in 3hrs. I'm not alone in this view.


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			See point 3 post number 2.

Click to expand...

Bit harsh mate... Most of us would like to think that the course we play is going to be in as good a condition as possible. I'd prefer to pay a bit more and have less members. Some people would prefer to pay less and not be as concerned about numbers/condition etc. There is room for both in the market, but the falling numbers of golfers will weed out the clubs who don't do enough to cater for their respected market...


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

Here they come strangelybrown, dufferman, here they come.


----------



## USER1999 (May 15, 2013)

The last thing my club need is more playing members. We need to advertise in new Zealand for country membership.


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.
		
Click to expand...




blackpuddinmonster said:



			Here they come strangelybrown, dufferman, here they come.
		
Click to expand...

Which one of the above descriptions are you levelling at me? I only ask because I'm not sure you understand the terms..


----------



## User20205 (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Here they come strangelybrown, dufferman, here they come.
		
Click to expand...


not really, Bluewolf's point is valid, join a club that caters for your needs. Most people who moan about attitudes at golf clubs aren't members, they just buy into the cliche. 

most turn up, pay their green fee and for some reason feel uncomfortable, I know I have been there. They look for reinforcement of their complex

It's like saying all people who go to church are religious nuts.....it's simply not true. 

It's impossible to comment on the rights & wrongs of membership, and the attitudes that exist therein without being a member.


----------



## Alex1975 (May 15, 2013)

Our club has too many members! (A Lot!) and I put this down to the fact that it is not full of people looking for trouble. The main body of the club are down to earth, the subs are reasonable, they try hard every year to make the course and practice facilities better and they are welcoming.

There are still too many sexist, racist, old school cry babies in golf, everyone wants to moan about something and what is the most unattractive thing on the planet.... people who moan... even if its your best mate in the world, if you find him/her moaning all the time you will spend less time with them!


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Bit harsh mate... Most of us would like to think that the course we play is going to be in as good a condition as possible. I'd prefer to pay a bit more and have less members. Some people would prefer to pay less and not be as concerned about numbers/condition etc. There is room for both in the market, but the falling numbers of golfers will weed out the clubs who don't do enough to cater for their respected market...
		
Click to expand...

More members=more money=more fulltime staff=course kept in good nick.
The op was about the decline of membership at clubs and what needs to be done to reverse this decline, so that the sport has a future. IMHO the answer is not to go down the more elitist route were only the posh clubs remain open.
If i've got you wrong then i apologise but i can't see the reasoning behind keeping prices high and memberships low in a thread about encouraging more people into this game.


----------



## pokerjoke (May 15, 2013)

Tiger said:



			So I'm finally getting round to reading the Darren Clarke GM edition and was intrigued by two things. Firstly good luck to the guys at the Centurion Club. From the photos I saw it looked good but not as good as their proposed pricing model. The second thing was the clothing debate, or more crucially the premise under which the article was started...

The suggestion was that golf club membership was reducing and ageing and that somehow this was linked to dress codes. I don't think there's evidence of this and think the problems are more to do with the speed, cost and brand of the game.

When I think about why I hadn't started golf sooner it was because I believed the game was too expensive, took too long and was for old people. What's worse is now I play golf I recognise that it costs me a fortune, takes so long my Mrs gives me earache every time I play and is predominantly played by older people...

So what do you think needs to be done to boost club membership?
		
Click to expand...



I have not read the article purely because my mag has not arrived for the last two months[god that makes me mad].
However the clothing debate is imo a screen for bigger issues.
A shirt,trousers,socks and shoes,not the hardest to get,however your probably on about the clubhouse not the course.
I think numbers are dwindling for many reasons.
Mainly money,the whole british economy is struggling,purses have to be tightened,golf and other
luxurys have to go first.
A lot of clubs want the whole year up front and offer a discount if you do.
If you want to pay monthly they tie you in to a contract and charge you an additional 6%.
Time,golf is time consuming,people with familys have to balance out their lives.
Access to the course is not always available,comps,societys etc means some have to play
around them,this reduces their time to play.
I think its up to our generation to bring the next generation through,us dads have to teach
our kids the ettiquette needed so they do feel comfortable going out on the course.
The problem also extends to what clubs offer.
Dwindling memberships means a course will cut green staff,effecting the course.
Dwindling members will effect the pro,and his shop stock.
Dwindling members means club will cut bar staff,chefs,meaning less food on offer all day.
A reduction in members has a knock on effect everywhere.
The only way to increase members is to reduce fees,keep the course in great nick,and offer
incentives,otherwise the dwindling numbers will carry on,imo.


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			1. It needs to be cheaper.
2. It needs to encourage younger, more open-minded people to participate.
3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

The last one is the most difficult to change, because they are not just perceptions / stereotypes. They exist. Even on this forum, I'm sorry to say.
		
Click to expand...




Qwerty said:



			Id hazard a guess that if you start to reduce membership fees at private clubs your going to see the standard/condition of the course suffer.
		
Click to expand...




blackpuddinmonster said:



			See point 3 post number 2.

Click to expand...

I don't see how reducing membership fees (which would affect the green keeping budget and therefore the condition of the course)  has any relation to point 3 post 2.

Are you relating me to point 3 post 2 ?


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Which one of the above descriptions are you levelling at me? I only ask because I'm not sure you understand the terms..

Click to expand...

Narrow-minded, elitist, beligerent, sneering :thup:


----------



## User20205 (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			More members=more money=more fulltime staff=course kept in good nick.
The op was about the decline of membership at clubs and what needs to be done to reverse this decline, so that the sport has a future. IMHO the answer is not to go down the more elitist route were only the posh clubs remain open.
If i've got you wrong then i apologise but i can't see the reasoning behind keeping prices high and memberships low in a thread about encouraging more people into this game.
		
Click to expand...


that's simply not true. the sport will always have a future, the point is that there are too many clubs due to a building boom in the 80's/90's it wouldn't hurt anyone if a few of these were returned to farmland. The membership is spread too thinly. 

re the second point, the only new courses/clubs are those that cater for the more exclusive section of the market, and the only clubs that are thriving are those that have the more traditional values. 

I don't see these widespread clichÃ©d attitudes that people often refer to. I think that this is more do with a collective chip on a few shoulders


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			More members=more money=more fulltime staff=course kept in good nick.
The op was about the decline of membership at clubs and what needs to be done to reverse this decline, so that the sport has a future. IMHO the answer is not to go down the more elitist route were only the posh clubs remain open.
If i've got you wrong then i apologise but i can't see the reasoning behind keeping prices high and memberships low in a thread about encouraging more people into this game.
		
Click to expand...

My point, if you had taken the time to understand it, is that there is place in the market for both types of clubs. Some people would prefer to pay more for certain conditions. Some would prefer to pay less and accept that they may lose some of these conditions. The clubs that fail, will be the clubs that don't do enough to cater for their respected market.

There is a place for very high cost, high expectation courses. I may not like them, but some do. These people should be catered to. There is also a place for low cost, high volume courses. I may not wish to join them (for reasons other than being elitest, thank you), but some do, and they should be catered for. If you wish to be inclusive, and encourage new golfers, then why do you appear to be dismissing any clubs that you do not wish to join. Your idea of inclusiveness appears to be very, ahem, narrow minded?


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



*The only way to increase members is to reduce fees,keep the course in great nick*,and offer
incentives,otherwise the dwindling numbers will carry on,imo.
		
Click to expand...

Catch 22!

If you can find a solution to this conundrum I'm voting you in as Prime Minister!!


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Narrow-minded, elitist, beligerent, sneering :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Excellently put. Well thought out, concisely structured......I've never had those terms thrown in my direction before, especially by someone who has never met me... Judging by your own appalling narrow mindedness on this thread, I'll take them as a compliment and move on... Thanks for your input...


----------



## pokerjoke (May 15, 2013)

scratch said:



			Catch 22!

If you can find a solution to this conundrum I'm voting you in as Prime Minister!!
		
Click to expand...


True but you cant just keep increasing prices.


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			More members=more money=more fulltime staff=course kept in good nick.
.
		
Click to expand...

 Great Idea :thup:
I must tell our committee about this.  Just think if we start charging Â£300 pound a year we could get 2000 members on board.  We wouldn't be able to get a Teetime or get on the comp' sheet but it wouldn't matter because the fees are only Â£300.


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

Qwerty said:



			Great Idea :thup:
I must tell our committee about this.  Just think if we start charging Â£300 pound a year we could get 2000 members on board.  We wouldn't be able to get a Teetime or get on the comp' sheet but it wouldn't matter because the fees are only Â£300.
		
Click to expand...

They're only 395 were i play, with 500 members and no problems getting to play in comps or any other time for that matter.


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			True but you cant just keep increasing prices.
		
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you can. It's a fact of life, everything goes up just hopefully not faster than inflation. Talk to the old boys at your club, I'm sure they'll tell you about the annual subs being 15 shillings when they joined. In a few years time we'll all be paying Â£3k a year (apart from Scotland where they will have rocketed to Â£42.50)


----------



## Birchy (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			They're only 395 were i play, with 500 members and no problems getting to play in comps or any other time for that matter.
		
Click to expand...

Its all relative though depending on course quality etc. Where do you play?

If its the course i think it is then theres a glaringly obvious reason its a lot cheaper.


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			They're only 395 were i play, with 500 members and no problems getting to play in comps or any other time for that matter.
		
Click to expand...

That equates Â£197,500pa income before any visitors or bar takings, you are really going to struggle to run a club on that sort of budget


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			They're only 395 were i play, with 500 members and no problems getting to play in comps or any other time for that matter.
		
Click to expand...

Theres only 3 members at my club.  General Ponsomby-Smyth, Colonel Roger Farquar and me.    Its 20 Grand per year and we don't bother playing in comp's, we just sit in the clubhouse drinking Gin.


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

Qwerty said:



			Theres only 3 members at my club.  General Ponsomby-Smyth, Colonel Roger Farquar and me.    Its 20 Grand per year and we don't bother playing in comp's, we just sit in the clubhouse drinking Gin.
		
Click to expand...

Is that the same place that the Rt Hon Sir Percival Glynbourne-Jenkins, Earl of Uphimself got blackballed from?


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Excellently put. Well thought out, concisely structured......I've never had those terms thrown in my direction before, especially by someone who has never met me... Judging by your own appalling narrow mindedness on this thread, I'll take them as a compliment and move on... Thanks for your input...
		
Click to expand...

Thankyou,:thup:
I actually agree with you with reguard to my narrow mindedness.
IMO, in a civilised society there is no place for elitism in any walk of life, and certainly not in sport. I believe this vehemently, and unlike some people i appreciate fully that this intransigence makes me appear narrow minded, beligerent and arrogant but hey c'est la vie. I'am not going to loose any sleep other it. Infact when these accusations are thrown my way depending on whose doing the accusing like you i take it as a compliment.
Well what do you no, common ground.


----------



## bladeplayer (May 15, 2013)

StrangelyBrown said:



			3. It needs to rid itself of the perception / stereotype that it's played by old, boring, narrow-minded, elitest, beligerent, arrogant, poorly dressed, arrogant, egotistical, sneering twonks.

.
		
Click to expand...

This , or the perception this is the case , is a big thing for non golfers id say . also Golf Clubs need to be pro active , most schools have sports classes  each week  invite a group out , get them chipping & putting on the practice greens , show them a good time ,                                                         get inter club competitions  between rugby, soccer , GAA clubs etc ..                                                                                            if you want peoples money now you have to attract their attention & most of all make it fun experience ....


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

scratch said:



			Is that the same place that the Rt Hon Sir Percival Glynbourne-Jenkins, Earl of Uphimself got blackballed from?  

Click to expand...

Yep, the same place.  The Gentleman in question called Ponsomby-Smyth a 'Crashing Bore' one evening Down at the Bullingdon Club and we've Held it against him ever since.


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			They're only 395 were i play, with 500 members and no problems getting to play in comps or any other time for that matter.
		
Click to expand...

Just out of interest, how much would you be willing to pay to play at Birkdale, Lytham, Hillside etc?


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Just out of interest, how much would you be willing to pay to play at Birkdale, Lytham, Hillside etc?
		
Click to expand...

Personally no more than 5 to 600, any more and i couldn't justify it, or indeed afford it. Then again my personal transport is a van so i probably wouldn't be allowed to use the carpark .
I believe there's a club not far from your neck of the woods with a similar rediculous rule. Welcome to the classless society.


----------



## gryffindor (May 15, 2013)

I have often parked my works (and very, very old) Ford Fiesta van at Wentworth. You always get a good space because the gap left between a Bentley in Bay 1 and Ferrari in bay 3 means that the Range Rovers don't fit!


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Personally no more than 5 to 600, any more and i couldn't justify it, or indeed afford it. Then again my personal transport is a van so i probably wouldn't be allowed to use the carpark .
I believe there's a club not far from your neck of the woods with a similar rediculous rule. Welcome to the classless society.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant to play it as a guest, not a member.

The club you're talking about is Ashton. It's a nice course with very traditional values. It still has a large joining fee (which I disagree with.) I believe that the membership is fairly full which allows it to keep the joining fee. Also, everybody who joins, knows the rules before they join. If they don't agree, then they can look elsewhere.

As i've said, I don't consider this elitist. It's just catering to one segment of the market. If they restricted access based on personal wealth, occupation, skin colour, sex etc then I would have a problem with it. They let 6inchcup join, so the standards can't be that high..


----------



## Captainron (May 15, 2013)

I think that increasing reciprocity would help. I would love to be a member at a proper members course. This would mean I could play pretty much when I wanted and get involved in comps etc. However, I don't think that membership offers value as I would hardly play in the winter and Â£800 odd for 6 months golf isn't brilliant. I do think, that better reciprocal arrangements with other clubs would be more attractive to members. The choice to play other courses in the area at competitive prices will get people through the doors.


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

gryffindor said:



			I have often parked my works (and very, very old) Ford Fiesta van at Wentworth. You always get a good space because the gap left between a Bentley in Bay 1 and Ferrari in bay 3 means that the Range Rovers don't fit!
		
Click to expand...

Yup, my 10yr old, 120k miles Nissan has parked in some very exclusive carparks without any issues. They must think that i'm some sort of eccentric..


----------



## Qwerty (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Personally no more than 5 to 600, any more and i couldn't justify it, or indeed afford it. Then again my personal transport is a van so i probably wouldn't be allowed to use the carpark .
I believe there's a club not far from your neck of the woods with a similar rediculous rule. Welcome to the classless society.
		
Click to expand...

My Personal transport is also a Van

The van has been parked on the car parks of Royal Lytham, Royal Liverpool, Formby, Hillside, West Lancs and other quality courses. 

Ive never had a problem with turning up in such a vehicle, and I've never been looked at in such a manner that made me feel uncomfortable. I've enjoyed playing all the above courses and never felt unwelcome.


----------



## upsidedown (May 15, 2013)

Captainron said:



			I think that increasing reciprocity would help. I would love to be a member at a proper members course. This would mean I could play pretty much when I wanted and get involved in comps etc. However, I don't think that membership offers value as I would hardly play in the winter and Â£800 odd for 6 months golf isn't brilliant. I do think, that better reciprocal arrangements with other clubs would be more attractive to members. The choice to play other courses in the area at competitive prices will get people through the doors.
		
Click to expand...

With use of the "County Book "you can now play at greatly reduced rates nationwide ( well so i'm lead to believe as not had a chance yet)


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Sorry, I meant to play it as a guest, not a member.

The club you're talking about is Ashton. It's a nice course with very traditional values. It still has a large joining fee (which I disagree with.) I believe that the membership is fairly full which allows it to keep the joining fee. Also, everybody who joins, knows the rules before they join. If they don't agree, then they can look elsewhere.

As i've said, I don't consider this elitist. It's just catering to one segment of the market. If they restricted access based on personal wealth, occupation, skin colour, sex etc then I would have a problem with it. They let 6inchcup join, so the standards can't be that high..

Click to expand...

The van comment was a bit facitious, still i didn't realise there were so many people driving around in vans and borderline mot failures at these posh gaffs. Perhaps if your greenfees were a bit lower....? 

Bluewolf you don't reguard this as elitist but i do. It is a restriction based on my personal wealth. If i could afford to run two vehicles i would, but i can't. There are still plenty of clubs around who refuse full privalages to ladies, and if my occupation is no barrier then why do some clubs ask for a letter of reccomendation of your employer?
Its these attitudes that still persist that put so many people of the game. The argument "you know the rules before you join" is wrong. I'am sorry bluewolf but this attitude is appaphetic at best, these places are prehistoric and run by dinosaurs, and need to go the same way they went imho.


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			and if my occupation is no barrier then why do some clubs ask for a letter of reccomendation of your employer?
		
Click to expand...

That is something I've never heard of before, which club(s) are these?


----------



## pendodave (May 15, 2013)

To my mind golf always has been (and always will be) the sport you play when you can't do anything a bit more interesting...Don't get me wrong, I love it, but when I was younger I'm glad that I played football, cricket and squash instead while I was still fit enough and good enough to enjoy them.

I don't think that getting youth in is necessarily the answer. They just don't have the cash or the time to play. Golf clubs might be better off offering deals/partnerships etc with organisations such as those I've listed above to make sure as many of the late twenties/early thirties sports-playing demographic as possible continue their sporting interests into golf instead of descending into BandQ/sky/boozer entropy.

Of course, the fact that the part of that demographic which didn't go to a decent public school is now being slaughered to keep the banksters afloat doesn't help, but that's another thread...


----------



## Tiger (May 15, 2013)

Interesting to see lots of comments about cost, it's got to be a big factor for the younger age group. It's all well and good getting youngsters into the sport, at our club the membership is only Â£20, but then they turn 18 and the price rockets up to Â£625! Not to mention many don't have a car so getting to the course is a problem (and those with wheels have been financially crippled by insurance). Then you have a bit more cash in your mid 20s but you're trying to buy a house/start a family. Once you've done the latter, time is at a premium until the kids are a bit older by which time you're in your 40s and you fit the profile of 'the younger golfer' surrounded by octogenarians...

If I hadn't gotten ill there is no way I'd be playing golf. I honestly have no idea what to do about it but I think Bill Elliott's suggestion of adding Â£2 a year to all golf subs as a levy for the Golf Foundation is a good start, but to reap the benefits clubs need to do a bit more than allowing jeans in the clubhouse...


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

scratch said:



			That is something I've never heard of before, which club(s) are these?
		
Click to expand...

Blackley near us. If there's one up here there must be others.


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Blackley near us. If there's one up here there must be others.
		
Click to expand...



According to the website it is optional and only then as a backup if you don't have a proposer or a letter of introduction from a previous club. From what I can see it's a council course, can't see them turning any applications down unless you are on the sex offenders register


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

Its not elitist to charge more for a better product. I would love a Ferrari, but I can't afford one. Access isn't restricted on anything other than cost. I can't afford a Range Rover, an Audi A5 or a BMW X5. They are not elitist. They just cost more.

like you, I don't agree with restrictions based on occupation, sex, colour, religion etc. but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about cost.


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

scratch said:



			According to the website it is optional and only then as a backup if you don't have a proposer or a letter of introduction from a previous club. From what I can see it's a council course, can't see them turning any applications down unless you are on the sex offenders register  

Click to expand...

If your new to the game as per thread, how are you going to get a letter off a previous club? And why would you neccesarily know a current member? If not ,you need a letter of your employer. Why?? Its all pointless faff and puts people of playing.

As for the crack _"from what i can see its a council course can't see them turning any applications down unless you are on the sex offenders register _, not quite sure what your getting at. Care to extrapolate??


----------



## SammmeBee (May 15, 2013)

The precis version:

Too many golf courses/clubs......  

Shut some down, make people join the place up the road that needs members and bob's yer uncle....


----------



## 6inchcup (May 15, 2013)

i am with bluewolf on this one,if i choose to join a club that asks for Â£1000 to join and the best part of a Â£1000 green fee per year what business is it of those that cant or do not wish to pay those prices,it is like most things in life you can either afford them or not BUT in nearly all cases there is normally a cheaper alternative,dont play at a private club but at a local council course,don't buy all the latest gear but use cheaper makes and same for clothes,just because some snotty nosed sink estate urchin doesn't find golf a sport for them so be it,if my club is anything to go buy the future looks ok as we have 60 or 70 young juniors who are a credit to their parents,and if some courses have to close due to lack of interest the others will pick up new members,golf is a minority sport and we should not forget that.


----------



## devonboy (May 15, 2013)

The main factor persoanlly for me growing up was simply cost of membership.

I'm lucky enough now to be able to utilise a corporate membership. It's enabled me to play locally and to a decent standard dropping from a 20 handicapper to 9.5 in just over 12 months.

If I didn't have the corporate membership I couldn't justify the Â£700 to either myself or my partner.

Over the years I've had this conversation with my old man and you've got to play a fair bit of gold to justify a membership rather than pay and play at courses.


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Its not elitist to charge more for a better product. I would love a Ferrari, but I can't afford one. Access isn't restricted on anything other than cost. I can't afford a Range Rover, an Audi A5 or a BMW X5. They are not elitist. They just cost more.

like you, I don't agree with restrictions based on occupation, sex, colour, religion etc. but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about cost.
		
Click to expand...

Which surely by definition makes it elitist??
Elitism- The belief that certain people of certain classes deserve favoured treatment by virtue of their percieved supperiority, social status or financial resources.
I'am sorry bluewolf, i've been told in the past that i make Tony Benn look like a supporter of Oswald Moseley, we'll probably never agree on this.
But you no what? Thats ok, because life would be boring if all agreed on everything. I think we can agree on this at least ?


----------



## drutz (May 15, 2013)

therod said:



			that's simply not true. the sport will always have a future, the point is that there are too many clubs due to a building boom in the 80's/90's it wouldn't hurt anyone if a few of these were returned to farmland. The membership is spread too thinly.
		
Click to expand...

On this point though surely if lots of clubs close this will cause a lack of competition therefore prices will go up further as people would have less choice so clubs might think 'Ahh we can get more out of those that want to play'. You might be happy to pay your fees now but what if all clubs nearby closed then your club doubled your fees? Would you think all those clubs closing were a good thing?

I think a lot of it is down to time, money, perception but also a lot of clubs are out of town so drink driving effects them, travel time, fuel costs effects them so as many have said it is not a simple answer and I don't think it is all about dress codes for sure.


----------



## bluewolf (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Which surely by definition makes it elitist??
Elitism- The belief that certain people of certain classes deserve favoured treatment by virtue of their percieved supperiority, social status or financial resources.
I'am sorry bluewolf, i've been told in the past that i make Tony Benn look like a supporter of Oswald Moseley, we'll probably never agree on this.
But you no what? Thats ok, because life would be boring if all agreed on everything. I think we can agree on this at least ? 

Click to expand...

Too true mate. Now get yerself on some of our NW meets and you'll realise that we are far far from elitist.


----------



## Captainron (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Too true mate. Now get yerself on some of our NW meets and you'll realise that we are far far from elitist.
		
Click to expand...

Has he been vetted, interviewed, credit scored, provided with the password and given the secret handshake?


----------



## User20205 (May 15, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Which surely by definition makes it elitist??
Elitism- The belief that certain people of certain classes deserve favoured treatment by virtue of their percieved supperiority, social status or financial resources.
I'am sorry bluewolf, i've been told in the past that i make Tony Benn look like a supporter of Oswald Moseley, we'll probably never agree on this.
But you no what? Thats ok, because life would be boring if all agreed on everything. I think we can agree on this at least ? 

Click to expand...

it's not elitist, it's exclusive there is a difference. Finance is only one of the requirement of elitism. If you've got the cash and youâ€™re not an axe murderer most clubs will let you in. 

The beauty of golf is that you can play a course that fits your budget, you can't expect a top course to charge peanuts in the same way you can't expect Gucci handbags to go for a fiver 

there are perhaps only a handful of clubs in the UK that you couldn't get into on finance alone. 

Cost isn't a barrier to membership. Near me there are clubs that charge anything from Â£200 to Â£5k for annual membership, everyone is catered for 




			On this point though surely if lots of clubs close
		
Click to expand...

not lots of them, just the rubbish ones


----------



## drutz (May 15, 2013)

therod said:



			not lots of them, just the rubbish ones
		
Click to expand...

Now what do you use to decide which are rubbish? Price? See then you might get into the elitist argument.


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Too true mate. Now get yerself on some of our NW meets and you'll realise that we are far far from elitist.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the invite :thup:
I've been reading a few of the threads on the arrange a game page and they look like a good laff. As soon as one comes up that i can work around i'l deffinatly take you up on the offer.
You'll easily recognise me, i'l be the one in "the tooting popular front" tank top and the Che Guevara beret.


----------



## blackpuddinmonster (May 15, 2013)

Captainron said:



			Has he been vetted, interviewed, credit scored, provided with the password and given the secret handshake?
		
Click to expand...

Black puddings mate. Open more doors than anything they do. Especially on this side of the pennines.:lol:


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 15, 2013)

We are a modest parkland course although it is a tough test of golf especially off the whites. We have some stiff competition from our neighbours (Mill Ride, The Berkshire, Sand Martins etc) and people laugh that because of our location we have to pay Â£1600 per annum. So how come we've managed to find a way to be 51 members ahead of the projected target figure for 2013 already and have more in the pipeline

The bottom line is if you offer something appealing then people will come. The new greenkeeper is doing fantastic stuff with the greens and the course, we have a new General Manager who is giving the club some day day to hands on guidance and we have decently facilities. As I say not an elite course but a tricky one. We might have Royal in the name but we certainly aren't elitist snobbish or exclusive and plenty of work vans in our car park each week. Of course there are those that are narrow minded but you get those in all walks of life and work and every club has them.


----------



## PNWokingham (May 15, 2013)

Qwerty said:



			My Personal transport is also a Van

The van has been parked on the car parks of Royal Lytham, Royal Liverpool, Formby, Hillside, West Lancs and other quality courses. 

Ive never had a problem with turning up in such a vehicle, and I've never been looked at in such a manner that made me feel uncomfortable. I've enjoyed playing all the above courses and never felt unwelcome.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree - to say anything different is so narrow minded and "jumping on the bandwagon" of stupid preconceptions that it barely warrants a comment - I have never heard a derogatory comment anywhere in a golf club about what car or van someone dares park in the car par park - I play at  nice course and it is the most relaxed in terms of dress code and background of members, politeness of staff and other members that I have seen - again, probably against preconceptions of more exclusive clubs

Regards the thread - there are about 3,000 courses in GB&I catering for all budgets etc - this is needed, and the sensible clubs go with the main demand in the area and the target market. Why knock someone for wanting to play at a course that doesn't allow societies as they want either the experience of more exclusivity/ limited access to their track/ easier to get a game/ better playing conditions/ plusher surroundings/ better practice facilities  - they certainly pay for it. Similarly, to say cut your fees and add more members has validity at some clubs in some areas, but will not in others - as it would spark others to leave. Where golf clubs are in trouble is if they do not go with the dynamics of where they are - or are stuck with attitudes/rules that are out of date and or not fulfil demand or offer value for money. There are more flexible clubs appearing - like The Players Club near Bristol, with various memberships that give full membership, restricted membership or much cheaper versions with smaller annual subs plus fees for each game, or points systems for playing at different times,like Goodwood. Similarly, there are clubs like Queenwood where you can't even get a phone number or view the website - why, because there is a market for it whether anyone agrees or not - I don't and was glad when my club introduced limited access to visitors but, hey, I can't knock it just as I can't afford to join it - as it fills a need and adds to the options and the economy! This is not a one-size-fits-all sport - but that is nothing new - at least it offers many options and choices.


----------



## richart (May 15, 2013)

PNWokingham said:



			I have never heard a derogatory comment anywhere in a golf club about what car or van someone dares park in the car par park
		
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that ?


----------



## PNWokingham (May 15, 2013)

richart said:



			Are you sure about that ? 

Click to expand...

There is always the odd exception Rich - but that is based on yours being the oldest living regularly used Alfa!!


----------



## richart (May 15, 2013)

Our membership is virtually full, and we have a joining fee. We have picked up a lot of members from one local club. It is not lots of new people taking up the game, but existing golfers looking for something better. Clubs need to be competitive, quality of the course, facilities, subs, to compete, and those that are not competitive risk falling by the wayside.


----------



## Jdb2005 (May 15, 2013)

Few ideas I had were -

join with a friend and save Â£40 per membership

Free lesson from pro

Beginner classes for those new to the game

At my gaffs one of our bug bears is no trainers in the cluhouse b and I honestly feel that our club house would be busier if trainers were permitted. Most young adults prefer to wear trainer type footwear and I think it would've been better to relax that dress code rather than jeans in club house


----------



## In_The_Rough (May 15, 2013)

Dress codes are a real pain sometimes. No trainers in the clubhouse is quite frankly stupid, bet there are some of the old guard in there with their worn out shoes that should have gone in the bin years ago and these are deemed o.k


----------



## Fader (May 15, 2013)

Maybe golf was once elitist and for people wth massive bank balances, but nowadays with eBay & municple pay as you go memberships it makes it far more affordable to new players than ever imo.

Its certainly how I got into it. My dad worked his wotsits off for years in the 80's & 90's to be able to afford for him and my brother to be able to play but it never interested me at that time. But when I finally got around to picking up the game 2 years ago I couldn't afford to just go out and buy all the latest gear & private membership, I bought all my gear at that time of eBay and thanks to the likes of Nike & TM churning out so many new models so often I was able pick up so many bargains that were 1-2years old max and weren't outdated kit.

Followed that up with municipal membership for year and I was off and running for less than Â£300 from owning nothing to having all the gear I needed and access to a course, thats less than I used to spend in a year on Martial arts gear and footie boots. 

Even this year having now joined a private club I shopped around for best value for money my fees are only Â£43 a month, my mate at work has said he'd like to join to play more but can't work out how to afford it but finds a way to spend Â£7.50 a day on fags now compare that to what my fees equate to per day and its very affordable

So it comes down to on simple thing wanting to play and making people feel inspired to at least give it a go and if the likes of the last Ryder Cup comeback don't inspire people nothing will...

As for Kids playing its up to parents to get kids to stop twiddling their thumbs on their xBox's  controllers and out doing all sports until they find one they like, my dad had me, my brother and sister trying everything until we found something we enjoyed my brother settled on Golf, my sister dance and I got greedy and went for football & taekwondo but end of the day without our parents taking us to try things we wouldn't have done anything. Get schools involved as well a it will give kids more chances to try things and get into sports.


----------



## User20205 (May 15, 2013)

Jdb2005 said:



			I think it would've been better to relax that dress code rather than jeans in club house
		
Click to expand...


looks like they already have at your place... black socks


----------



## Jdb2005 (May 15, 2013)

therod said:



			looks like they already have at your place... black socks

Click to expand...

Not getting it but if it in regards to my profile pic that's not my place. Holiday a few years back


----------



## User20205 (May 15, 2013)

Jdb2005 said:



			Not getting it but if it in regards to my profile pic that's not my place. Holiday a few years back

Click to expand...

:thup:


----------



## Akie (May 15, 2013)

Like many above, they need to break down the stereotypes about Golf. Yes they exist for a reason but I've played plenty of courses where its more relaxed, there is a course out there to suit everyones tastes.


----------



## scratch (May 15, 2013)

I would be interested to see some figures that break down memberships for the different types of club...private, proprietary and public. I'd guess that the majority of private members clubs are doing OK, I reckon most of the courses that are struggling are proprietary where an owner is looking to make money. 

Just my guesswork but would be very interested to find out. All the private clubs in my area are doing pretty well.


----------



## chrisd (May 16, 2013)

I've just read all the postings on this thread and am quite amazed at the stereotyping of members, presumably by non club members, of every golf club in the land!

Our club has just short of 600 members, is in mid Kent, costs Â£1,000 per yer and the members that I see every time I play vary right across the spectrum. Yes, it's predominately older people because all clubs I've ever been to have an average around 55. The fact is that every club has a mix of people arrogant, rude, bossy, opinionated through to the nicest that you would ever meet but if you went into a supermarket, football crowd or a hospital (pick your own place) you would find the same mix of people. We can all point to old duffers who moan their way through life and tell juniors off, they do it at home too, it's not a golf related issue I help run a large football club and it happens just the same there.

The fact is that gof is priced what it is because clubs take the running cost, devide by the number of members it attracts and that comes up with the subscription cost. I pay Â£1,000 and play, on average, twice a week the basic cost per round is Â£9.61 per game, if I go to the nearest pay and play, two rounds a week (without any offers) would be approximately  Â£60 per week. For that reason I join a club with the added bonus that I get a proper handicap and get to make a lot of lasting friendship and always have someone to play with.

I do firmly believe that dress codes need to be kept modern and relevant and seeing the odd player in check plus fours with long yellow socks looks faintly ridiculous to me as is no jeans in the clubhouse, but, if the average age is 55, the members don't want bare feet and cropped beach wear so tend to maintain the status quo so that we don't drift into the unacceptable. There I, however, golf wear that suits all ages and no 20 old need dress like a 70 year old.

Most of the issues on here relate, as I read them, to odd, one off bad experiences and are not what I see at my, quite ordinary club - yes there are arguments, odd idiots, entrenched views etc but I suspect that mirrors everyday life at work and everywhere else and is not in anyway exclusive to gof club membership!


----------



## Robobum (May 16, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I've just read all the postings on this thread and am quite amazed at the stereotyping of members, presumably by non club members, of every golf club in the land!

Our club has just short of 600 members, is in mid Kent, costs Â£1,000 per yer and the members that I see every time I play vary right across the spectrum. Yes, it's predominately older people because all clubs I've ever been to have an average around 55. The fact is that every club has a mix of people arrogant, rude, bossy, opinionated through to the nicest that you would ever meet but if you went into a supermarket, football crowd or a hospital (pick your own place) you would find the same mix of people. We can all point to old duffers who moan their way through life and tell juniors off, they do it at home too, it's not a golf related issue I help run a large football club and it happens just the same there.

The fact is that gof is priced what it is because clubs take the running cost, devide by the number of members it attracts and that comes up with the subscription cost. I pay Â£1,000 and play, on average, twice a week the basic cost per round is Â£9.61 per game, if I go to the nearest pay and play, two rounds a week (without any offers) would be approximately  Â£60 per week. For that reason I join a club with the added bonus that I get a proper handicap and get to make a lot of lasting friendship and always have someone to play with.

I do firmly believe that dress codes need to be kept modern and relevant and seeing the odd player in check plus fours with long yellow socks looks faintly ridiculous to me as is no jeans in the clubhouse, but, if the average age is 55, the members don't want bare feet and cropped beach wear so tend to maintain the status quo so that we don't drift into the unacceptable. There I, however, golf wear that suits all ages and no 20 old need dress like a 70 year old.

Most of the issues on here relate, as I read them, to odd, one off bad experiences and are not what I see at my, quite ordinary club - yes there are arguments, odd idiots, entrenched views etc but I suspect that mirrors everyday life at work and everywhere else and is not in anyway exclusive to gof club membership!
		
Click to expand...

Great post, brilliantly summed up.


----------



## User20205 (May 16, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I've just read all the postings on this thread and am quite amazed at the stereotyping of members, presumably by non club members, of every golf club in the land!

Our club has just short of 600 members, is in mid Kent, costs Â£1,000 per yer and the members that I see every time I play vary right across the spectrum. Yes, it's predominately older people because all clubs I've ever been to have an average around 55. The fact is that every club has a mix of people arrogant, rude, bossy, opinionated through to the nicest that you would ever meet but if you went into a supermarket, football crowd or a hospital (pick your own place) you would find the same mix of people. We can all point to old duffers who moan their way through life and tell juniors off, they do it at home too, it's not a golf related issue I help run a large football club and it happens just the same there.

The fact is that gof is priced what it is because clubs take the running cost, devide by the number of members it attracts and that comes up with the subscription cost. I pay Â£1,000 and play, on average, twice a week the basic cost per round is Â£9.61 per game, if I go to the nearest pay and play, two rounds a week (without any offers) would be approximately  Â£60 per week. For that reason I join a club with the added bonus that I get a proper handicap and get to make a lot of lasting friendship and always have someone to play with.

I do firmly believe that dress codes need to be kept modern and relevant and seeing the odd player in check plus fours with long yellow socks looks faintly ridiculous to me as is no jeans in the clubhouse, but, if the average age is 55, the members don't want bare feet and cropped beach wear so tend to maintain the status quo so that we don't drift into the unacceptable. There I, however, golf wear that suits all ages and no 20 old need dress like a 70 year old.

Most of the issues on here relate, as I read them, to odd, one off bad experiences and are not what I see at my, quite ordinary club - yes there are arguments, odd idiots, entrenched views etc but I suspect that mirrors everyday life at work and everywhere else and is not in anyway exclusive to gof club membership!
		
Click to expand...

+1 to this, sums it up more eloquently than I could :thup:


----------



## Hacker Khan (May 16, 2013)

scratch said:



			And I think this is coming from the attitudes of schools and 'compensation cultures' where they don't encourage sport anymore in case someone gets injured and the school gets sued. .
		
Click to expand...

I am a school governor and one of my specialised subjects is school PE.  And I am afraid, despite what ever people may read in The Daily Mail,  that statement is utter bilge.


----------



## Hacker Khan (May 16, 2013)

sydney greenstreet said:



			Consider a game of football that costs about Â£25 a ticket for 90 mins of action and a round of golf for the same price for 3 hours of fun.
		
Click to expand...

But in your example one is playing a sport and one it watching a sport.  Which are completely different.  Memberships of clubs depends on people playing a sport not watching it.  To get involved with and start playing football costs you about Â£5 to buy a ball.  I used to manage and play for a Sunday league team and our subs were Â£3 a week I think.  Getting involved in golf costs you a whole lot more.


----------



## User20205 (May 16, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			I am a achool governor and one of my specialised subjects is school PE.  And I am afraid, despite what ever people may read in The Daily Mail,  that statement is utter bilge.
		
Click to expand...

maybe not a compensation culture thing, maybe a teacher can't be arsed thing. 

Does PE  count  towards ofsted etc ?


----------



## Hacker Khan (May 16, 2013)

Fader said:



			So it comes down to on simple thing wanting to play and making people feel inspired to at least give it a go and if the likes of the last Ryder Cup comeback don't inspire people nothing will...
		
Click to expand...

And if it was shown on a free to air terestrial TV it proabably would have done wonders for the game....  

And this is not an anti Sky rant, but a suggestion that the people who were actually watching that event unfold live on Sky Sports at the time it was on, were probably mostly made up of committed golfers.


----------



## StrangelyBrown (May 16, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I've just read all the postings on this thread... *snip*
		
Click to expand...

Very well written Chris.


----------



## louise_a (May 16, 2013)

Interesting about some of the comments about Blackley,  I have played there a few times in interclub matches and its a nice club, its not the most interesting course  but the members I have met are friendly and varied. Its not a council course as was suggested.
Akie is in the process of joining there so his comments would be interesting. Did he submit a letter from his employer for example?

Our course has around 600-700 members and top fees are Â£800 a year, we have someone who is visiting local schools trying to get kids interested in golf, we also do not interview new members, as part of a local council deal we get cheap rates and in return do not put restrictions on who can join.


----------



## Robobum (May 16, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			But in your example one is playing a sport and one it watching a sport.  Which are completely different.  Memberships of clubs depends on people playing a sport not watching it.  To get involved with and start playing football costs you about Â£5 to buy a ball.  I used to manage and play for a Sunday league team and our subs were Â£3 a week I think.  Getting involved in golf costs you a whole lot more.
		
Click to expand...

But that team would be raising moneys almost non stop to pay for pitch fees, kit, refs, registration, fines etc etc. your Â£3 doesn't cover that.

I played at a local 6 a side thing a couple of years ago - Â£5 per player for half an hour.


----------



## chrisd (May 16, 2013)

Our football club has about 13 teams and we have raised and spent Â£85,000 this year. We charge membership at Â£20 for the year and approx. Â£5 per game all other income is from bar takings, donations, sponsorship, grants etc etc. In actual fact football locally is provided too cheap for what it costs.


----------



## Hacker Khan (May 16, 2013)

therod said:



			maybe not a compensation culture thing, maybe a teacher can't be arsed thing. 

Does PE  count  towards ofsted etc ?
		
Click to expand...

I know this is off topic but there are many reasons why PE is in decline in some schools.  Schools are not actually ofsteded on specific subjects, but of course there is an emphasis in the ofsted evaluation and also in the school league tables on the key subjects.  And PE is not one of those subjects.

So as schools will be judged by the inspectors and league tables on their results in certain areas, of course it is natural that schools will favour concentrating on those subjects.  Whether this provides a rounded education for the pupil is another question.  Some school realise that you can't just concentrate on the academic subjects as PE has many benefits such as the exercise part, giving a chance to kids who may not excel in the academic subjects etc etc.  So they ensure a lot of PE is also provided.

Other factors include the work load of teachers.  Again do not believe what you read, the vast majority of teachers do not just work 8.45 to 3.30 and then have 17 weeks off a year (yes of course there are some lazy teachers as there are in any profession, but it is rarer than the media portrays).  There is a huge amount of paperwork, lesson planning and various other tasks to try and meet the latest fad policy from the government of the day.  So this does not leave as much time for them to teach PE or run after school clubs as teachers used to have.

Money is also a critical factor.  Schools are effectively businesses now, the aim is not to make a profit but they have to break even.  And of course as we all know public finances are being squeezed so they have less money to spend on things such as sporting equipment or playing fields (if they have one left that has not been sold off already).  Some schools buy in external providers to run PE sessions, indeed the government recently made some extra money available for primary schools to do that.  But some schools that do not prioritise PE opt to spend their money elsewhere.

But as I have said, not doing PE due to compensation culture is just a Daily mail sponsored myth.  I would not be surprised if a school has used that as an excuse, and there may well have been some bonkers case where a school has had to pay out lots of money to a kid injured doing cross country.  But those are very isolated and irrelevant examples.


----------



## CliveW (May 16, 2013)

Tiger said:



			So what do you think needs to be done to boost club membership?
		
Click to expand...

Blairgowrie is actively involved in the Clubgolf scheme as featured on SkySports.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDgrUx_6w8I


----------



## cs1986 (May 16, 2013)

I dont know if this has already been said but I think if golf was on 'normal TV' more (channels 1-5) then I think more people would take an interest in it and want to play. Im sure you have all noticed how the courses suddenly get busy when the UK Open is on TV. Maybe if say bbc2 screened a few more golf tournaments a year then more people would be talking about it. They dont even show that much coverage of the Masters anymore, its all highlight programmes.

Maybe Im wrong and most people have Sky, but it just seems that whenever there is a big sporting event (of any sport) on terrestrial TV then it gets alot more media coverage and average Joe's talking about it.

Surely Channel 5 could bid for a European tour highlights package....they show naff all else worth watching!


----------



## Snelly (May 16, 2013)

Quite an interesting thread this.   Some utter garbage written but a couple of gems from Chris and PNWokingham that reflect my view.   

Golf courses exist in Britain for all tastes, budgets and preferences.  Find one that suits what you can afford, has what you want and membership should be an enjoyable experience.  When you have reached this point, try your best to stop slating the other clubs that  have traditions and rules that you find objectionable.   

The best courses I have played at are the ones that suit me.  I know what I like and choose to play at places with the ambience, course standard and style that I like.  This does not mean expensive places either. For example I don't like or ever want to go back to: Loch Lomond, The Belfry or Walton Heath which are all costly and quite well thought of.  Conversely, I love Hayling Island, Liphook, Blackmoor and West Sussex.  None of which are expensive particularly but they fit what I want from a club.  I like old courses with history, tradition, lots of rules, dress codes, good food and a decent wine list.   I also appreciate that some people really dislike some of this old school stuffiness and that is fine.   The fact is though that the clubs I go to that have these elements in abundance, are full of like minded members and have waiting lists to join.  They serve their niche very well and are very successful indeed.

If you want to go to some of the best courses in the country then you need to abide by their rules as they won't change and demand far outstrips supply.  

If you want to wear jeans, use your phone in the lounge, drink lots of Stella and watch Sky Sports in the club with your pals then that is absolutely fine.  Plenty of clubs meet your requirements. 

Find what you want and stick with it, without worrying about what others are doing.  That is my view.   Membership is only in decline at places that are failing to meet the need of their clientele, whoever that may be.


----------



## Hacker Khan (May 16, 2013)

Anyway, back to the original question, as a member of the communist party I have my views. 

I think golf has a big perception problem.  I would argue that golf is perceived as being sexist, expensive, elitist, very time consuming, has many barriers to entry, not very inclusive and full of petty rules.  

Now I am sure many people can point out examples of where it is welcoming to women, very cheap, full of all classes and has a wide ethnic mix, you can get round very quickly, it is open to anyone no matter what they are wearing and actually the rules are pretty straight forwards. But those people generally tend to be existing members of golf clubs.

But on the other hand I and others in this thread pointed to many examples of the opposite.  And these people tend to be non members of clubs and the people golf needs to attract.

I would argue that golf, and in particular golf clubs, generally do a pretty poor job in marketing themselves and making the game inclusive and open to all.  And I think there is a lot of truth in the fact already mentioned in other posts that some clubs have a vested interest in keeping people out of their club.

Of course there are a lot of great initiatives going on to get people involved, and there are some very progressive clubs out there trying their best to modernise the game.  But the game, including ruling bodies, clubs, players and the golf media itself needs to try and change the perception of the game and make it more attractive and to try and remove as many barriers to entry as possible.  

To highlight this I would ask you to watch the trophy giving ceremony at the Open this year.  Just look at the cast of characters that will be paraded in front of the watching word and I would imagine the highest TV audience for a golf event in this country this year, seeing as it's the only one left on terrestrial TV, to do the presentation ceremony. Look how they dress, listen to how they speak, think what image they are portraying of golf and the type of person that the game wants to attract.  And think to yourself, do these gentleman look like the kind of people who can change the perception of the game?


----------



## bluewolf (May 16, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Quite an interesting thread this.   Some utter garbage written but a couple of gems from Chris and PNWokingham that reflect my view.   

Golf courses exist in Britain for all tastes, budgets and preferences.  Find one that suits what you can afford, has what you want and membership should be an enjoyable experience.  When you have reached this point, try your best to stop slating the other clubs that  have traditions and rules that you find objectionable.   

The best courses I have played at are the ones that suit me.  I know what I like and choose to play at places with the ambience, course standard and style that I like.  This does not mean expensive places either. For example I don't like or ever want to go back to: Loch Lomond, The Belfry or Walton Heath which are all costly and quite well thought of.  Conversely, I love Hayling Island, Liphook, Blackmoor and West Sussex.  None of which are expensive particularly but they fit what I want from a club.  I like old courses with history, tradition, lots of rules, dress codes, good food and a decent wine list.   I also appreciate that some people really dislike some of this old school stuffiness and that is fine.   The fact is though that the clubs I go to that have these elements in abundance, are full of like minded members and have waiting lists to join.  They serve their niche very well and are very successful indeed.

If you want to go to some of the best courses in the country then you need to abide by their rules as they won't change and demand far outstrips supply.  

If you want to wear jeans, use your phone in the lounge, drink lots of Stella and watch Sky Sports in the club with your pals then that is absolutely fine.  Plenty of clubs meet your requirements. 

Find what you want and stick with it, without worrying about what others are doing.  That is my view.   Membership is only in decline at places that are failing to meet the need of their clientele, whoever that may be.
		
Click to expand...

Snelly, we may not agree on some/most/almost all things   but this post echos the point I have been trying to make throughout this thread. There's a club out there for everyone. The only clubs that will fail, are the ones who fail to cater fully for their intended market.

I'm equally as happy playing Birkdale, as I am playing Haigh Hall. I played at a lovely course in Cheshire last week where membership appeared to be by invite only. I didn't feel, or be made to feel, out of place. Every club has a specific set of rules. If you don't like their rules then you don't have to play. If enough people don't like their rules, then the club will struggle.


----------



## bluewolf (May 16, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			To highlight this I would ask you to watch the trophy giving ceremony at the Open this year.  Just look at the cast of characters that will be paraded in front of the watching word and I would imagine the highest TV audience for a golf event in this country this year, seeing as it's the only one left on terrestrial TV, to do the presentation ceremony. Look how they dress, listen to how they speak, think what image they are portraying of golf and the type of person that the game wants to attract.  And think to yourself, do these gentleman look like the kind of people who can change the perception of the game?
		
Click to expand...

A bit like the FA Cup presentation then? See, I can shoehorn the FA Cup into any thread......


----------



## USER1999 (May 16, 2013)

Would the open presentation be more suitable with a couple of builders vans in the back ground, and the captain of the r an a wearing jeans with half his arse showing?


----------



## Birchy (May 16, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			Would the open presentation be more suitable with a couple of builders vans in the back ground, and the captain of the r an a wearing jeans with half his arse showing?
		
Click to expand...

Exactly the sort of reply i was about to post :rofl:


----------



## Snelly (May 16, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			Would the open presentation be more suitable with a couple of builders vans in the back ground, and the captain of the r an a wearing jeans with half his arse showing?
		
Click to expand...

  Ticker tape, deafening celebratory music, flame cannons, fireworks, cheerleaders and sponsors advertising boards too...!


----------



## mikee247 (May 16, 2013)

We have a reciprocal arrangement at our place where we can go and play 14 other clubs in the area for free. So yesterday myself and 3 others teed it up at Mill Ride Nr Ascot in Berks. Nice track, Ive played it before, well cared for, good lay out but rubbish greens imo. The place was absolutely dead. Hardly saw a sole all the way round apart from a couple of young chaps in a buggy we let through who were clearly very good. We went in the bar afterwards but we had to let them know we were coming as they close it at 7!!! Again no one in there.... There's tons of incentives everywhere for members to get new ones on board but I was gob smack how dead the place was for a nice club in the heart of the wealthy belt of the UK so it must be bad out there.  Im not 100% sure what the fees are but expect they are over 1200 a year but surely as an owner you need to have the club house and the course buzzing all day during the summer and should be doing everything including open days or even free be's to get the bodies in. Anyone a member on here?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 16, 2013)

richart said:



			Our membership is virtually full, and we have a joining fee. We have picked up a lot of members from one local club. It is not lots of new people taking up the game, but existing golfers looking for something better. Clubs need to be competitive, quality of the course, facilities, subs, to compete, and those that are not competitive risk falling by the wayside.
		
Click to expand...

Trust you are not nicking members form  us?  Ah yes - of course you transferred 

Clubs have to work hard to keep their membership level consistent with the subs they charge and what the existing members think is reasonable.  As soon as the balance is wrong the club will struggle membership wise - but it can be sorted.  We are very active selling our traditional club and course.  We run relatively inexpensive academies for juniors, ladies and gents.  At the moment junior and ladies academies are doing well and we are getting a steady feed of new members from them.  Gents less so.  But then wasn't always a member of a club while I was a student (late teens to mid-20s) , and for ten years when I had a young family - so mid-30s to mid-40s - still playing a little but not a member - family and house costs pressures.  

And as far as I can see that isn't going to change as far as membership of clubs is concerned.  Other pressures, demands and priorities over key periods in peoples lives - maybe still playing but not a member.

So target has to be getting youngsters interested in the game before mid-teens - they may well not continue playing (much) but the chances are they'll have got an interest that means they may well continue playing a little and then when in 40s can be addressed as potential members - through the likes of our academies.  Have a go - inexpensive - see if you like it - think about joining our club - you don't have to.

Final thought - my lad stated playing when he was 11. He joined my club.  No joining fee and Â£100 a year including free group lessons with one of the assistant pros.  At 14 cricket took priority so we cancelled his membership as he wasn't playing.  Then mid teens - girls and a band - so all sport stopped.  But he still played occasional game with me at the club and on holiday and with his mates at the local par 3.  

Now coming up 21 - at uni and seriously into his metalcore band - all tattoos, ear stretching (a fad now passed with him thank the lord), alternative dressing, screamo, merch, promoting etc.  But he still enjoys playing golf and maintains an interest in watching majors and what's going on in golf.  *He 'got it' when he was 11*.  Will he play golf when he is in his 30s - I bet he will be.  Will he be a member of a golf club when he is in his late 30s and 40s - I'd guess quite possibly.  It would then be up to the likes of my club to attract him.


----------



## Akie (May 16, 2013)

louise_a said:



			Interesting about some of the comments about Blackley,  I have played there a few times in interclub matches and its a nice club, its not the most interesting course  but the members I have met are friendly and varied. Its not a council course as was suggested.
Akie is in the process of joining there so his comments would be interesting. Did he submit a letter from his employer for example?
		
Click to expand...

I've not been asked to submit anything from my employer yet, would be a bit irked if I did to be honest. I'm having an interview with the nominations committee which I guess could put some people off but I guess it depends what the interview is for. If it is to rigorously new members against their standards then I'd probably be put off but if its just to give the committee a chance to meet new members and put names to face and show them around etc then its probably a worthwhile exercise.


----------



## Billysboots (May 16, 2013)

I have a wonderfully simplistic view as to what sort of golf club attracts and retains members, based on my experience as a member at three establishments during the last 16 years.

You can have the best clubhouse, the most immaculate course, wonderful facilities and so on. But what makes a club special is its members. My last two clubs are classic cases in point. Up until seven years ago I was a member at one of the premier clubs in the county - fantastic course, comfortable, modern clubhouse, but the stuffiest, most unfriendly membership you could ever wish to meet. The same fourballs played at the same time in every competition, and in the main new members were treated like outsiders, and it was made very difficult for those newbies to integrate unless they already had friends at the club.

I eventually moved from there to a more modern thinking club, which had a basic clubhouse in comparison, but it is one where everyone gets a warm welcome. The course when I joined was good, but nothing special - it was let down by maintenance. But for the first year or so I accepted that because I could see the management were moving in the right direction, and have been rewarded with a course which is now regarded as one of the best in the area. All that, and the friendliest membership anywhere, where relaxed is the order of the day, and I am happy being drawn with anyone in a competition.

As a consequence, we have no problem retaining members, or attracting new ones. It's self perpetuating - friendly members attract other friendly golfers, and so it continues. I think gimmicks like a free lesson with the pro, or other promotional methods, are perhaps for clubs who may not have recognised they have a fundamental underlying issue with an exclusive membership who don't welcome visitors and newcomers with open arms.

A free lesson at a closed-shop establishment, or golf in a relaxed atmosphere with a wide circle of friends? It's a no brainer.


----------



## scratch (May 16, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			I am a school governor and one of my specialised subjects is school PE.  And I am afraid, despite what ever people may read in The Daily Mail,  that statement is utter bilge.
		
Click to expand...

Believe me, it is not bilge.

When I was in school, we had teams for rugby, football, cricket, athletics, basketball, cross country, swimming and tennis. We had PE twice a week with sports/school matches on Wednesday afternoons and Saturday mornings. Please do not patronise me by telling me that schools encourage sport to the same levels today.


----------



## Akie (May 16, 2013)

scratch said:



			Believe me, it is not bilge.

When I was in school, we had teams for rugby, football, cricket, athletics, basketball, cross country, swimming and tennis. We had PE twice a week with sports/school matches on Wednesday afternoons and Saturday mornings. Please do not patronise me by telling me that schools encourage sport to the same levels today.
		
Click to expand...

How recent was that? I left school just over ten years ago and we still had all those things you mentioned above. A lot will depend on the school I'm guessing rather than a generalisation of the whole country.


----------



## Fader (May 16, 2013)

scratch said:



			When I was in school, we had teams for rugby, football, cricket, athletics, basketball, cross country, swimming and tennis. We had PE twice a week with sports/school matches on Wednesday afternoons and Saturday mornings. Please do not patronise me by telling me that schools encourage sport to the same levels today.
		
Click to expand...

I remember at primary school we had a footy team that played matches throughout the season against all other schools in the Medway towns, then when I moved up to secondary school we had teams for all of the above sports pretty the only reason I made sure I went to school was to make sure I got on all the sports teams. Now my old school doesn't even have a football pitch to use, they built on the athletics track & field area, the current PE teacher there told us at a school reuinion last year now there is just the curriculum they follow and no sports teams to represent the school and sports day is now optional for all pupils. Certainly different from my time there in the mid/late 90's.


----------



## gdc (May 16, 2013)

Bucket92 said:



			I've heard a few of my mates say that they don't understand why golfers have to wear such stupid clothes, could be a reason for a lot of people not wanting to try it?
		
Click to expand...

A pair of trousers and a T-shirt with a collar? What absolute madness who dresses like this?


----------



## cs1986 (May 16, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Snelly, we may not agree on some/most/almost all things  but this post echos the point I have been trying to make throughout this thread. There's a club out there for everyone. The only clubs that will fail, are the ones who fail to cater fully for their intended market.

I'm equally as happy playing Birkdale, as I am playing Haigh Hall. I played at a lovely course in Cheshire last week where membership appeared to be by invite only. I didn't feel, or be made to feel, out of place. Every club has a specific set of rules. If you don't like their rules then you don't have to play. If enough people don't like their rules, then the club will struggle.
		
Click to expand...

Not a bad course Haigh Hall, especially for the price it is to play! I used to play there quite a bit when I lived in Horwich. Will no doubt play the course this Summer when I visit home.


----------



## scratch (May 16, 2013)

Akie said:



			How recent was that? I left school just over ten years ago and we still had all those things you mentioned above. A lot will depend on the school I'm guessing rather than a generalisation of the whole country.
		
Click to expand...

It was a while ago in my case, before home PC's, game consoles, mobile phones and all the other things that kids prefer to sport these days. 

BTW, I wasn't trying to rubbish your course when I called it a council course, I saw on the website they refer to the council setting the subs, guess that is your name for the committee?


----------



## Akie (May 16, 2013)

scratch said:



			It was a while ago in my case, before home PC's, game consoles, mobile phones and all the other things that kids prefer to sport these days. 

BTW, I wasn't trying to rubbish your course when I called it a council course, I saw on the website they refer to the council setting the subs, guess that is your name for the committee?
		
Click to expand...

Guess it depends which school, I know my old school has better facilities than when I was there and still has the old school field but guess land is cheaper up narf.

No problem, I like it there and the bit about a reference from your employer said if you wish or they asked, they didnt. Probably just always been there and never removed as these days clubs should be biting your hand off if you want to join. The joining process took longer than I'd like but it happens. Yeah I think the council is just the committee that decide the rates, I dont know that much about that side of things but not seen or heard anything referring to it as a council run course. To be fair I'm a big fan of Heaton Park as a muni!


----------



## woody69 (May 16, 2013)

Personally I think it's down to the simple fact that golf is actually quite a hard game to play and it's certainly very hard to be good at it, which requires a lot of time and dedication. Take that fact with the cost of playing and people aren't prepared to spend that much money and with the "instant" life we live in most people tend to want things yesterday so don't have the patience or the inclination to join a club and play.


----------



## bluewolf (May 16, 2013)

cs1986 said:



			Not a bad course Haigh Hall, especially for the price it is to play! I used to play there quite a bit when I lived in Horwich. Will no doubt play the course this Summer when I visit home.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, I play it a couple of times per year myself. Usually before the Open as it gets very busy afterwards. I was merely using Haigh Hall as an example because its the nearest Muni course to me.....


----------



## Tiger (May 16, 2013)

woody69 said:



			Personally I think it's down to the simple fact that golf is actually quite a hard game to play and it's certainly very hard to be good at it, which requires a lot of time and dedication. Take that fact with the cost of playing and people aren't prepared to spend that much money and with the "instant" life we live in most people tend to want things yesterday so don't have the patience or the inclination to join a club and play.
		
Click to expand...

Interesting post woody :thup: I think the snooty club/hooray henry debate is a red herring. Soneone mentioned earlier that golf is the sport you turn to when your days of <insert sport of choice> are numbered. Why is that?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 16, 2013)

My club has been running membership open days for a year or so and it is a cheap and easy way to attract membership as our 51 members ahead of target indicates. Rock up, get a guided tour of the club and meet the main people (pro, captain, GM etc) and get to play nine holes with a committee member. No hard sell as such. Come along if you are interested, have a nose around, play a few holes and make an informed decision


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 16, 2013)

woody69 said:



			Personally I think it's down to the simple fact that golf is actually quite a hard game to play and it's certainly very hard to be good at it, which requires a lot of time and dedication. Take that fact with the cost of playing and people aren't prepared to spend that much money and with the "instant" life we live in most people tend to want things yesterday so don't have the patience or the inclination to join a club and play.
		
Click to expand...

Yup - you don't get much in the way of instant gratification when you take up golf if your expectations are wrong.  Hardly the sport for the 'I want it and I want it now' generation.  If they want to create a new game where a ball is hit using sticks inot ahole that is faster and easier than golf then feel free - but don't call it golf - pap maybe.  Maybe those who like this new game of pap will one day consider taking up the grown up version - the game of golf.  But leave my game alone.


----------



## Qwerty (May 16, 2013)

I know of quite a lot of guys and mates that have given the game a try a some point and just because they've struggled to hit the the ball they've thrown in the towel at the first opportunity. 

I can only put it down to the fact that they can't take the embarrassment of hacking their way around the course, despite my best efforts of trying to convince them that "everyone's been there"  and that its a pretty quick learning curve once you get into it, they decide that its not for them.
Id imagine that most of us have bored someone into trying the game at some point out only to see the same outcome.  

I don't know how you'd convince these people to stick with it? Surely their expectations couldnt of been that high, it's a tough game, But I sometimes think its a shame that they've made the effort to get out there and try it only to instantly give up.


----------



## Hacker Khan (May 16, 2013)

scratch said:



			Believe me, it is not bilge.

When I was in school, we had teams for rugby, football, cricket, athletics, basketball, cross country, swimming and tennis. We had PE twice a week with sports/school matches on Wednesday afternoons and Saturday mornings. Please do not patronise me by telling me that schools encourage sport to the same levels today.
		
Click to expand...

If you look on my post the quote that I said was bilge was '_And I think this is coming from the attitudes of schools and  'compensation cultures' where they don't encourage sport any more in case  someone gets injured and the school gets sued.'_ Which is utter bilge. 

I am not arguing that there is less PE now, in some schools (but not all) this is very true, and in another post I explained some of the reasons why.  But compensation culture is definitely not one of them.


----------



## scratch (May 16, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			If you look on my post the quote that I said was bilge was '_And I think this is coming from the attitudes of schools and  'compensation cultures' where they don't encourage sport any more in case  someone gets injured and the school gets sued.'_ Which is utter bilge. 

I am not arguing that there is less PE now, in some schools (but not all) this is very true, and in another post I explained some of the reasons why.  But compensation culture is definitely not one of them.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but I beg to differ on this point, everyone seems to be out to make a fast buck these days. My daughter managed to pierce her cheek with a pencil in primary school, when the school phoned my wife to tell her what happened the first thing they asked was would we be putting in a claim against the school. Very sad but quite true.


----------



## PNWokingham (May 16, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			Would the open presentation be more suitable with a couple of builders vans in the back ground, and the captain of the r an a wearing jeans with half his arse showing?
		
Click to expand...

quality Murph!!


----------



## Scadge (May 16, 2013)

I think the challenge is more about "colts" than "kids".  We have lots of clubs with thriving junior sections and kids of a really good standard or simply a love of the game.  

However, and forgive the generalisation, when they go to university as more kids are encouraged to do these days (could be subject of another thread as to why and does this really makes sense) or when they come back they don't have the money to keep the membership up or to come back to the game.  

Quite rightly their parents are trying to help them keep the costs of longer schooling/university debts to a minimum (which with Â£9k a year fees is nigh on impossible) or may in many cases simply be unable to help financially.

The consequences of this are that there are a number of "lost years" between 18 and early thirties when having got kids only a few lucky folks are financially able to get back to the hobby that captivated them as kids.  This is why the US golf clubs full membership often doesn't start until people get to 40.

On the other side of the financial divide we have huge youth unemployment amonst people without superior skills and living standards which have only gone down in a generation.  I can't for the life of me think that the current elite  image of golf would appeal to many of these people who are already excluded from normal society let alone the "top brass" (deliberately tongue in cheek)


----------



## markgs (May 16, 2013)

Im 34 so by no stretch of the imagination an old man but when i was young around 12 years old i use to spend every spare minute of my life with my friends on the 9 hole pitch and putt golf course in my local park, sometime for 9am to 5pm. These days children are not allowed out by there parents fearing for there safety, They would rather be playing golf on a games console or watch dvds and fill there face full of junk food from the supermarket. My partners 8 year old is so un fit its unbelievable when i was that ages i was fit as a fiddle


----------



## Yer Maw (May 16, 2013)

I think there is definitely a cross border difference here.  In Scotland you can play at a great course for around 400-600 pounds per year and there are lots of them so you can pretty much always get a decent tee time because member ships are spread out.  However I think land and business rates are significantly greater in England, hence the price difference for a bobby basic course is enormous (correct me please if I'm wrong). So you end up with people  who can only afford to pay.

I think the elitist argument is a weak one, as I play in a club where it is mostly professionals and very successful people, but they are all good company on the course.  We all mind our p's and q's for the most part, have good manners etc. but I've haven't yet played with  anyone who is an elitist snob!  I will at some point but that is not the reason for declining membership.

Getting the youngsters into the game and finsing the right club members to play along with them, go out for bounce games with them, have fun, a good crack and teach them good etiquette, fast play etc. and even maybe pass on some good wee tips.

Also offering flexible membership packages e.g. a reduced fee membership that gets you on at the traditional quiet times, or a membership plus pay as you play fee such as a fiver as it all adds up.  Not tying people into year long memberships but offering loyalty incentives etc.

Also recognising that if they are struggling for staff, getting some members to help with the upkeep though that is maybe a bit of an ask, but part of creating a solid club culture is the club looking after people and people looking after the club.

Anyhow some of the sniping on this thread shows that there is an element of ******* syndrome that pervades golfs image. Do you think perhaps some of that is the reason some people think golf is for *****, because some people do think it?


----------



## scratch (May 16, 2013)

Yer Maw said:



			I think there is definitely a cross border difference here.  In Scotland you can play at a great course for around 400-600 pounds per year and there are lots of them so you can pretty much always get a decent tee time because member ships are spread out.  However I think land and business rates are significantly greater in England, hence the price difference for a bobby basic course is enormous (correct me please if I'm wrong). So you end up with people  who can only afford to pay.
		
Click to expand...

I think you are pretty close there but it's not just down to rates etc. When I was a member at Gourock, people treated the clubhouse as their local and would pop up in the evening for a pint instead of going to a pub. In the winter they used to have a pub games league one night a week, a great way to get to know people other than out on the course. The income generated behind the bar was substantial, all helping to keep annual subs down. There seems to be much less of this down here in the south, typically a cup of tea or one drink then that's it till the following weekend.


----------



## markgs (May 16, 2013)

I would be happy to pay double the green fees if it reduced the members to half and the course would not be so busy


----------



## stevie_r (May 16, 2013)

Yer Maw said:



			I think there is definitely a cross border difference here.  In Scotland you can play at a great course for around 400-600 pounds per year and there are lots of them so you can pretty much always get a decent tee time because member ships are spread out.  However I think land and business rates are significantly greater in England, hence the price difference for a bobby basic course is enormous (correct me please if I'm wrong). So you end up with people  who can only afford to pay.
		
Click to expand...

You make some good points but if I can pick on the Scotland/ England divide, I think that is far too much of a simplified view.  Within both countries there is a degree of disparity in this regard.  For example have a look at the subs for some of the Northumberland Links/ cliff top courses, they look superb value to me.  Around the Glasgow area there are some clubs which don't look great value when compared to some of the Dumfries and Galloway courses.  To my mind that indicates that density of population is a big factor.


----------



## USER1999 (May 17, 2013)

scratch said:



			I think you are pretty close there but it's not just down to rates etc. When I was a member at Gourock, people treated the clubhouse as their local and would pop up in the evening for a pint instead of going to a pub. In the winter they used to have a pub games league one night a week, a great way to get to know people other than out on the course. The income generated behind the bar was substantial, all helping to keep annual subs down. There seems to be much less of this down here in the south, typically a cup of tea or one drink then that's it till the following weekend.
		
Click to expand...

Seriously?

The Saturday swindle I play in put about Â£250 across the bar every weekend. The afternoon swindle do similarly. I have no idea why you think that us southerners don't use the club house.

The club I belong to is a members club, it returns no profit, so the cost of membership is kept to the lowest figure. It's about Â£1300. Running costs are just higher down here. It's nothing to do with bar takings.


----------



## scratch (May 17, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			Seriously?

The Saturday swindle I play in put about Â£250 across the bar every weekend. The afternoon swindle do similarly. I have no idea why you think that us southerners don't use the club house.

The club I belong to is a members club, it returns no profit, so the cost of membership is kept to the lowest figure. It's about Â£1300. Running costs are just higher down here. It's nothing to do with bar takings.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that people don't spend money across the bar but it is very different here in the south. When is the last time you went to your club for a night out? It's quite a common thing for that to happen in Scotland. I used to spend more behind the bar of my club up there than I did in any bar in town. Every night the clubhouse would be busy. At my club down here there is hardly anyone in the clubhouse after about 6pm.


----------



## Tiger (May 17, 2013)

Scadge said:



			I think the challenge is more about "colts" than "kids".  We have lots of clubs with thriving junior sections and kids of a really good standard or simply a love of the game.  

However, and forgive the generalisation, when they go to university as more kids are encouraged to do these days (could be subject of another thread as to why and does this really makes sense) or when they come back they don't have the money to keep the membership up or to come back to the game.  

Quite rightly their parents are trying to help them keep the costs of longer schooling/university debts to a minimum (which with Â£9k a year fees is nigh on impossible) or may in many cases simply be unable to help financially.

The consequences of this are that there are a number of "lost years" between 18 and early thirties when having got kids only a few lucky folks are financially able to get back to the hobby that captivated them as kids.  This is why the US golf clubs full membership often doesn't start until people get to 40.

On the other side of the financial divide we have huge youth unemployment amonst people without superior skills and living standards which have only gone down in a generation.  I can't for the life of me think that the current elite  image of golf would appeal to many of these people who are already excluded from normal society let alone the "top brass" (deliberately tongue in cheek)
		
Click to expand...

Good point about the colts scadge. There is a club near me that offers reduced subs for under 40s and it's been very popular


----------



## Akie (May 17, 2013)

Scadge said:



			I think the challenge is more about "colts" than "kids".  We have lots of clubs with thriving junior sections and kids of a really good standard or simply a love of the game.  

However, and forgive the generalisation, when they go to university as more kids are encouraged to do these days (could be subject of another thread as to why and does this really makes sense) or when they come back they don't have the money to keep the membership up or to come back to the game.  

Quite rightly their parents are trying to help them keep the costs of longer schooling/university debts to a minimum (which with Â£9k a year fees is nigh on impossible) or may in many cases simply be unable to help financially.

The consequences of this are that there are a number of "lost years" between 18 and early thirties when having got kids only a few lucky folks are financially able to get back to the hobby that captivated them as kids.  This is why the US golf clubs full membership often doesn't start until people get to 40.

On the other side of the financial divide we have huge youth unemployment amonst people without superior skills and living standards which have only gone down in a generation.  I can't for the life of me think that the current elite  image of golf would appeal to many of these people who are already excluded from normal society let alone the "top brass" (deliberately tongue in cheek)
		
Click to expand...

I fall into that category, played a lot and was a member of a club till I was 18 and went to Uni when I couldnt afford it. It was till I was 26 and 4 years out of Uni to pick the game up again. Even now its take me 2 years to get playing regularly and finally just joined a club.


----------



## richart (May 17, 2013)

scratch said:



			I'm not saying that people don't spend money across the bar but it is very different here in the south. When is the last time you went to your club for a night out? It's quite a common thing for that to happen in Scotland. I used to spend more behind the bar of my club up there than I did in any bar in town. Every night the clubhouse would be busy. At my club down here there is hardly anyone in the clubhouse after about 6pm.
		
Click to expand...

We have regular quiz nights, tribute bands etc.The Social committee is always trying to arrange interesting events. The Club also stays open for at least half an hour after it gets dark, so everyone can get a drink after their round. When I play in the evening there is usually a good number of locals using the bar. Hankley Common and Liphook close their clubhouses at 7.00, so you have to change in the car if you play in the evening. Not very sociable.


----------



## pelican55 (May 17, 2013)

I am in that quandry now,would like to join a club to get involved in all the comps,,club champs etc in reality to play competitve golf.
The course I am keen on is in Wokingham but the annual subs are Â£1800.00,can I justify that, what`s spinning around in my mind is will I get value for money,I will need to play a helleva lot of golf to justify that and as we all know golf in winter is like a lottery, not much chance.
I have been given the opportuinity to play a introductory round and then make up my mind.How do I know what the members are like, are they clicky?
Any suggestions?


----------



## richart (May 17, 2013)

pelican55 said:



			I am in that quandry now,would like to join a club to get involved in all the comps,,club champs etc in reality to play competitve golf.
The course I am keen on is in Wokingham but the annual subs are Â£1800.00,can I justify that, what`s spinning around in my mind is will I get value for money,I will need to play a helleva lot of golf to justify that and as we all know golf in winter is like a lottery, not much chance.
I have been given the opportuinity to play a introductory round and then make up my mind.How do I know what the members are like, are they clicky?
Any suggestions?
		
Click to expand...

Which course is it ? There are a few on here around the Wokingham area that will probably be able to give you some feedback.


----------



## pelican55 (May 17, 2013)

Course I looked at was Sand Martins


----------



## Tiger (May 17, 2013)

PM Homer pelican


----------



## HomerJSimpson (May 17, 2013)

pelican55 said:



			Course I looked at was Sand Martins
		
Click to expand...

Don't do it. Apart from the membership fee there is a mandatory bar levy (approx Â£150) on top. The owner is a tool and it is run as a corporate and society cash cow midweek and members were regularly complaining about being unable to get the tee times they wanted. Its pre-booked times most of the time including weekends. The course itself is a bit marmite and two distinct nines. Decent practice facilities.

If I may be so bold may I suggest my place. Cheaper memberhsip fees, no bar levy and perhaps the biggest advantage is you can roll up and go out any time (except when competitions are going out). Ideal for evening knocks. If you fancy a knock let me know or check the website and see when the next membership open days is being held and have a look around. I'd be quite happy to sign you in for a round and propose you if you fancy it. PM me


----------



## Big-Dog (May 17, 2013)

Just a thought but could it be the time it takes to do 18 holes especially if you have the budding pro in front of you who will take an age to hit the little white object?

Pricing can be very competitive now depending on which course you would like to join and as correctly stated before the kit can be competitively priced ( I got mine for a total of Â£200 including bag Ping putter).

However I am one of the early week-end brigade who liked to be finished for lunch so I have the rest of the day unless my son is playing football and it is then a tee off time of 15:00 so we do not get held up. on a good day a 4 ball at our course on comp day can still be round in three and a half hours but sometimes that has slipped to 4+ when a word with the offenders usually gets them back on side. We have also introduced play through holes at bottlenecks on par threes when the party in front are all on the green they wave the other people on the tee to hit off then continue, this has resulted in less hold ups.

A tightening of the slow play could then have more people playing but it then is how to get them interested to start, we have 3-4 foxes and rabbits days (golfers and none golfers putting) which is followed by a quiz in the 19th after showing the golf and also the good social side. More events to get people through the door initially is the key. Just a thought!


----------



## G1BB0 (May 17, 2013)

its not just golf its all sports/hobbies/pastimes

As a kid we played every sport - football, cricket & golf in summer, rugby (league... proper rugby), american football even. we played in school playgrounds, local fields anywhere we could. Nowadays where can kids play? Parents are all working as much as they can to make ends meet, kids are sitting on ps3/xbox360, facebook etc. We had a powercut once and ended up playing cards, the kids enjoyed it, as soon as it came back on they went back to their laptops/ipads/consoles.

Schools dont help either, everyone encouraged to take part, no 1st or 2nd as its the taking part that counts.

There werent many fat kids when I was at school, drop my youngest off and theres loads.

We need to encourage when they are young but too much emphasis on targets and unfortunately Â£Â£Â£


----------



## SammmeBee (May 17, 2013)

scratch said:



			I'm not saying that people don't spend money across the bar but it is very different here in the south. When is the last time you went to your club for a night out? It's quite a common thing for that to happen in Scotland. I used to spend more behind the bar of my club up there than I did in any bar in town. Every night the clubhouse would be busy. At my club down here there is hardly anyone in the clubhouse after about 6pm.
		
Click to expand...

Because there is nothing else to do in Scotland except for eating deep fried Mars bars..........


----------



## richart (May 17, 2013)

pelican55 said:



			I am in that quandry now,would like to join a club to get involved in all the comps,,club champs etc in reality to play competitve golf.
The course I am keen on is in Wokingham but the annual subs are Â£1800.00,can I justify that, what`s spinning around in my mind is will I get value for money,I will need to play a helleva lot of golf to justify that and as we all know golf in winter is like a lottery, not much chance.
I have been given the opportuinity to play a introductory round and then make up my mind.How do I know what the members are like, are they clicky?
Any suggestions?
		
Click to expand...

As you are based in Farnborough, have you thought about joining the Army Club ? My Club can't be that far from you, and being a heathland course very rarely closes over the winter. Also courses this way are cheaper, our annual subs are Â£1300 from memory.


----------



## stevie_r (May 17, 2013)

SammmeBee said:



			Because there is nothing else to do in Scotland except for eating deep fried Mars bars..........
		
Click to expand...

Any ideas where they are sold exactly?  I've lived here 12 years now and still haven't managed to find one


----------



## G1BB0 (May 17, 2013)

ok, deep fried pizza?


----------



## stevie_r (May 17, 2013)

G1BB0 said:



			ok, deep fried pizza?
		
Click to expand...

Now they are widely available, can't say I would ever try one though.  There are however a multitude of fun things to do around here that don't involve hot cooking oil fortunately.


----------



## 123cjs (Oct 19, 2014)

funny how things go  full circle
i remember in 1988/1989 at club where i was a member here in uk south east
wife of one of the members said 
"i come up here once a year because i have to and thats it"
then recently club pro said to me that they needed more members(smacked of desperation)


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 19, 2014)

123cjs said:



			funny how things go  full circle
i remember in 1988/1989 at club where i was a member here in uk south east
wife of one of the members said 
"i come up here once a year because i have to and thats it"
then recently club pro said to me that they needed more members(smacked of desperation)
		
Click to expand...

My wife only very rarely will come to my club for a drink - and we have never eaten together - though we are thinking of doing Christmas lunch there. Nothing wrong with the club as such just not where she'd choose to go for a drink or a meal.  We have loads of nice pubs and excellent restaurants around.  Must ask her what club could do to make it more attractive to her.


----------



## CMAC (Oct 19, 2014)

another 'walking thread' thread


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 19, 2014)

123cjs said:



			funny how things go  full circle
i remember in 1988/1989 at club where i was a member here in uk south east
wife of one of the members said 
"i come up here once a year because i have to and thats it"
then recently club pro said to me that they needed more members(smacked of desperation)
		
Click to expand...

No idea why you decided to resurrect his dinosaur as your opening post? Welcome along though


----------



## williamalex1 (Oct 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No idea why you decided to resurrect his dinosaur as your opening post? Welcome along though
		
Click to expand...

 i think there will be a good few newish members who haven't seen or been involved in this thread before . I can't remember if i have TBH. My solution would be that all golfers should get a big enough rise in their wages / pensions to pay their fees, sorted :thup:


----------

