# The Ashes 2015



## Tongo (Jul 7, 2015)

So it starts tomorrow. Australia were firm favourites but the loss of Ryan Harris is a huge blow. I still think they are favourites but that has levelled the field somewhat. 

What has been interesting is the amount of chat about the verbal battle and sledging. Surely if you know there's going to be a load of sledging then it has lost its usefulness? I'd have thought the whole point of sledging was the element of surprise to unnerve your opponent. If you know Mitchell Johnson's going to chat away after each ball it surely loses it's effect.


----------



## chrisd (Jul 7, 2015)

H



Tongo said:



			Surely if you know there's going to be a load of sledging then it has lost its usefulness? I'd have thought the whole point of sledging was the element of surprise to unnerve your opponent. If you know Mitchell Johnson's going to chat away after each ball it surely loses it's effect.
		
Click to expand...

Not if he get in the batsman's head it doesn't


----------



## Tongo (Jul 7, 2015)

chrisd said:



			H

Not if he get in the batsman's head it doesn't
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't say much for the batsman's mental strength if he knows sledging's coming and still lets it effect him!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2015)

Two approaches I like to sledging. One, Sachin Tendulkar. He said nothing, his face never changed. The Aussies gave up sledging him as it had no effect. Two, Tony Greig. "If anyone tried to sledge me I would take my gloves off, put my bat down and offer to have a word with them, just the two of us". They are not his exact words but it was the general gist.

If I was the size of the late Mr Greig I would have taken his approach. As I was not I followed Sachin. Occasionally I would grin at a bowler who sledged me as that made them really angry and they lost control of their bowling. The worse thing you can do is react or bite back. As Johnson is huge and fast I would just turn my back on him when the vitriol came down. He would soon give up if he saw he was not getting a bite as you look pretty stupid snarling at the back of someone.


----------



## G.U.R (Jul 7, 2015)

Freddie Flintoff said recently that when he wet out he was expecting abuse and that it would have been more off putting had it been silent.


Oh and we'll be lucky to get nil, especially if Bell plays.


----------



## Captainron (Jul 8, 2015)

If either Bell or Balance struggle in the first two tests they are likely to get dropped. Bairstow is next in line on form but not sure who else would be on their radar?


----------



## Tongo (Jul 8, 2015)

Captainron said:



			If either Bell or Balance struggle in the first two tests they are likely to get dropped. Bairstow is next in line on form but not sure who else would be on their radar?
		
Click to expand...

Hales possibly but the relative lack of championship games in recent weeks may count against him as the selectors will have probably forgotten his early season form.


----------



## Snelly (Jul 8, 2015)

Excited and looking forward to 11am. 

I am feeling pretty positive about the Ashes and think England have enough new blood in the team to make a fight of it.  Of course, I would be very surprised if we win but disagree with the posts above that think we will be thrashed.  I believe we will certainly win a Test and maybe even two.  

Much closer than most people think is my view of this series and I hope I am right.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm far from a cricket fan but find myself at home today due to the mother-in-law falling very ill in the night and I just received a free Sky Sports day pass via email to watch it on my NowTv box, so it would be rude not to have it on, hope we win the toss and bat first and put up a good score, not that I'll be paying too much attention


----------



## bladeplayer (Jul 8, 2015)

3 down already , gona be hard now ..

43/3 not even off 87 balls .. OUCH !!!


----------



## Snelly (Jul 8, 2015)

Oh dear. 

3 down and Bell has 56 runs in his last 9 innings. 


Come on Joe Root. Should be alright now that there is a Sheffield lad at the crease.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 8, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Oh dear. 

3 down and Bell has 56 runs in his last 9 innings. 


Come on Joe Root. Should be alright now that there is a Sheffield lad at the crease.
		
Click to expand...

What'll happen is that Stokes will be in in a minute, will probably be out fairly soon, get scapegoated for England's poor performance and Bell will retain his place in the team cos he has the right technique and is wonderfully orthodox / textbook. 

Joe Root is again being asked to save England.


----------



## G.U.R (Jul 8, 2015)

The Aussies have worked Bell out, he should have been dropped before the West Indies tour and Bairstowe given games.


----------



## Khamelion (Jul 8, 2015)

The Ashes, England Cricket, :rofl:, as you may guess, I'm not a cricket fan. Flippancy aside, it would be good for the team to do well, but I'll not bet my house on it.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2015)

I know I got it for free today, but I think I'll be turning over shortly, its like watching paint dry :smirk:


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2015)

The ECB need to hire 2 x former SAS soldiers as bodyguards on permanent duty to go everywhere with Joe Root. They also need to hire a professional driver, give Root a Volvo XC90 and let him be driven everywhere in it (big enough for him and his gear, wonderfully safe). The driver can pick up his coffin and put it in and out of the car, another person will carry it to and from the dressing room, don't want a back strain. He should never be allowed to have a kickaround with his mates, sorry Joe. Next, a food taster, you can never be too careful.

All in all, this bloke needs to be looked after and protected as what a mess we would be in without him.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2015)

Fish said:



			I know I got it for free today, but I think I'll be turning over shortly, its like watching paint dry :smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Thought my free pass was only for the Ashes, just flipped it and now watching the golf, what a result


----------



## fundy (Jul 8, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The ECB need to hire 2 x former SAS soldiers as bodyguards on permanent duty to go everywhere with Joe Root. They also need to hire a professional driver, give Root a Volvo XC90 and let him be driven everywhere in it (big enough for him and his gear, wonderfully safe). The driver can pick up his coffin and put it in and out of the car, another person will carry it to and from the dressing room, don't want a back strain. He should never be allowed to have a kickaround with his mates, sorry Joe. Next, a food taster, you can never be too careful.

All in all, this bloke needs to be looked after and protected as what a mess we would be in without him.
		
Click to expand...

he really is top top class, aussies gonna regret dropping him on 0 thats for sure


----------



## Tongo (Jul 9, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The ECB need to hire 2 x former SAS soldiers as bodyguards on permanent duty to go everywhere with Joe Root. They also need to hire a professional driver, give Root a Volvo XC90 and let him be driven everywhere in it (big enough for him and his gear, wonderfully safe). The driver can pick up his coffin and put it in and out of the car, another person will carry it to and from the dressing room, don't want a back strain. He should never be allowed to have a kickaround with his mates, sorry Joe. Next, a food taster, you can never be too careful.

All in all, this bloke needs to be looked after and protected as what a mess we would be in without him.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, saved England again after Cook and Bell showed their Ashes experience to the full.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2015)

Bell is so inconsistent. Can be very good but too many poor scores as well. As for Cook, I hope he's on borrowed time and out before ;ong with Root as skipper. His form has been too poor for too long as a senior player and I don't think his tactics as a captain are as dynamic as many others around the world these days.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 9, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bell is so inconsistent. Can be very good but too many poor scores as well. As for Cook, I hope he's on borrowed time and out before ;ong with Root as skipper. His form has been too poor for too long as a senior player and I don't think his tactics as a captain are as dynamic as many others around the world these days.
		
Click to expand...

There was an article about Bell being the only survivor from the 2005 Ashes series. Looks like he's gonna be as much a walking wicket in (what should be) his last Ashes series as he was in his first!


----------



## TheDiablo (Jul 9, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Yes, saved England again after Cook and Bell showed their Ashes experience to the full.
		
Click to expand...




HomerJSimpson said:



			Bell is so inconsistent. Can be very good but too many poor scores as well. As for Cook, I hope he's on borrowed time and out before ;ong with Root as skipper. His form has been too poor for too long as a senior player and I don't think his tactics as a captain are as dynamic as many others around the world these days.
		
Click to expand...

By simply looking on this Forum, people will think The Ashes is a 1 innings game, not a 5 match Test series!!

By 'Cook on borrowed time' I sincerely hope you mean as Captain and not questioning his place in the team - 'form too poor for too long' is absolute drivel and based on no foundation other than Piers Mortgan spouting rubbish. He is averaging 48+ since the start of summer 2014! That's higher than Warner, Gayle, Kohli, Chanderpaul, McCullum and numerous other 'Senior players' - are they all on borrowed time?!

As for the captaincy, I don't personally see an alternative, although I wish there was one as I agree Cook's methods are outdated and uninspiring. However, the call for Root seems to be based solely on the number of runs he has scored. He has no real captaincy experience and why burden our only world class batsmen with the pressure at such a young age?

I do agree that Bell should now be dropped, I think he is now too much of a liability early in the innings. Especially with Bairstow scoring heaps and heaps. Root up to 4 and Bairstow in at 5 for Lords IMO.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2015)

One shout for Bairstow. Who else is next in line if Bell goes? Morgan, James Taylor? Any followers of County cricket out there? Who is filling their boots this summer?


----------



## TheDiablo (Jul 9, 2015)

I follow County Cricket quite closely. I can't see any other option than Bairstow. 

IMO you need some Intl experience to be thrown into the middle of an Ashes series. It's a middle order position, ruling out Carberry and Compton. Leaving Bairstow and the 2 LT has mentioned, Morgan and Taylor. Unfortunately Taylor is having a shocker this year, certainly no 100s and I think averaging around 30 - real shame as he never seems to be in form when there is a position open, but plunders runs when the team is set! I think he could easily have played 30 tests by now should he have been more fortunate. Morgan needs some red ball runs, of which he hasn't scored any at all in the few games he played. Bairstow is averaging close to 100 I think.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2015)

Bell will be back. Wouldn't be surprised if he bags a score 2nd innings to keep his spot.

Been all England this morning so far, some fortune, but some good positive play. Ali is not a Test-quality batsman though, he's too loose outside off to be a consistent success.


----------



## TheDiablo (Jul 9, 2015)

I hope you're right Dan, he's my favourite England batsmen of the last 7/8 years - but he just looks shot this year. Either way I think he will be given Lords, so will need a big score in the next 2 innings I think.

Ali currently isn't expected to be a test match quality batsmen - hence his no.8 position. However, this indicates he is expected to be a test match quality bowler - which he clearly isn't. I hope he has one of his better displays, as this pitch would have been a dream for Swann in the 4th innings. We really miss a spinner and I fear this could be the downfall over the course of the summer.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 9, 2015)

TheDiablo said:



			I follow County Cricket quite closely. I can't see any other option than Bairstow. 

IMO you need some Intl experience to be thrown into the middle of an Ashes series. It's a middle order position, ruling out Carberry and Compton. Leaving Bairstow and the 2 LT has mentioned, Morgan and Taylor. Unfortunately Taylor is having a shocker this year, certainly no 100s and I think averaging around 30 - real shame as he never seems to be in form when there is a position open, but plunders runs when the team is set! I think he could easily have played 30 tests by now should he have been more fortunate. Morgan needs some red ball runs, of which he hasn't scored any at all in the few games he played. Bairstow is averaging close to 100 I think.
		
Click to expand...

If only we knew of a middle order batsman, with a lot of international experience, that would scare the Aussies.....


----------



## Tongo (Jul 9, 2015)

Listening to TMS and Glenn McGrath is one of the commentators. He was a miserable so and so on the field but seems a very good, insightful and fair commentator. Certainly doesnt have the blatant bias of Warne.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 10, 2015)

Great morning for England, taking the last 5 Aussie wickets for just 50 odd runs for a commanding 120 run first innings lead. Now, can someone other than Joe Root score some big runs?!


----------



## bladeplayer (Jul 10, 2015)

This game has burst into life today , need to make most of a good first  two & half days now , should not lose this game at the very least


----------



## Tongo (Jul 10, 2015)

Australia set 412 to win after a great cameo from Mark Wood. Should be enough for England.......should be enough......!


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Australia set 412 to win after a great cameo from Mark Wood. Should be enough for England.......should be enough......!
		
Click to expand...

 If we bowl like we did in the first innings it should be plenty. Wicket taking more spin now as well. We should also get a second new ball, if it does get close.

We have played well for three days, so fingers crossed we have one more good day.:thup:


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

If you cant defend 400 on this its time to knock it on the head, pitch deteriorated a lot today and will continue to do so you would expect, very hard to see England not win tomorrow but be interesting if Warner gets a start early


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

richart said:



			If we bowl like we did in the first innings it should be plenty. Wicket taking more spin now as well. We should also get a second new ball, if it does get close.

We have played well for three days, so fingers crossed we have one more good day.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

All seems a bit quiet on here Rich - thought it would be buzzing after great performances from players like Bell, Root, Stokes, Wood , Ballance ,Broad, Anderson in fact the lot of them and especially Cook's captaincy - i am a bit confused though - thought were heading for a thumping.


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All seems a bit quiet on here Rich - thought it would be buzzing after great performances from players like Bell, Root, Stokes, Wood , Ballance ,Broad, Anderson in fact the lot of them and especially Cook's captaincy - i am a bit confused though - thought were heading for a thumping.
		
Click to expand...

 The doom and gloom merchants will be back soon though. One swallow etc.

I reckon the new coach has instilled into the bowlers to keep pitching up, and use the short ball as a surprise weapon. Hopefully we will also continue to take our catches as well. Haddin dropping Root could turn out to have cost them the game.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All seems a bit quiet on here Rich - thought it would be buzzing after great performances from players like Bell, Root, Stokes, Wood , Ballance ,Broad, Anderson in fact the lot of them and especially Cook's captaincy - i am a bit confused though - thought were heading for a thumping.
		
Click to expand...

Dont go overboard too soon mate, been very few "great" performances (root 1st inns once haddin had dropped him on 0), been some good ones on a pretty poor deck and weve certainly had the rub of the green too.

Johnson looks a busted flush (I argued he shouldnt even be in there side a couple of weeks ago on the likely surface in cardiff and he probably wouldnt have been if it hadnt been the ashes), loss of Harris a huge blow for them too.

England seem to have some decent plans, reflects well on the new management and badly on the Moores regime (no real shock there). Hopefully we're not gonna play the whole series on slow low dry breaking up decks but I expect that may well be what has been "ordered"


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Dont go overboard too soon mate, been very few "great" performances (root 1st inns once haddin had dropped him on 0), been some good ones on a pretty poor deck and weve certainly had the rub of the green too.

Johnson looks a busted flush (I argued he shouldnt even be in there side a couple of weeks ago on the likely surface in cardiff and he probably wouldnt have been if it hadnt been the ashes), loss of Harris a huge blow for them too.

England seem to have some decent plans, reflects well on the new management and badly on the Moores regime (no real shock there). Hopefully we're not gonna play the whole series on slow low dry breaking up decks but I expect that may well be what has been "ordered"
		
Click to expand...

Read some proper drivel on here about the England Cricket Team ( not by you i hasten to add as we have our chats on Twitter ) only have to read back to just before the NZ test series and then the ODI and just before this test. Even the other day Cook was written off "again" and once again KP mentioned. And now a great days cricket - and the comments are miminal at best.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Read some proper drivel on here about the England Cricket Team ( not by you i hasten to add as we have our chats on Twitter ) only have to read back to just before the NZ test series and then the ODI and just before this test. Even the other day Cook was written off "again" and once again KP mentioned. And now a great days cricket - and the comments are miminal at best.
		
Click to expand...

No need to rehash the KP debate, is he in the best 6 batters yes, is he ever going to be picked again no.

As for Cook, as you know I still dont rate him as a captain, appears to me his strings are being pulled a bit better from behind with the new management but we'll see more as the series develops. As a batter, we dont have better options (and nor do other sides!)

Liked Bells approach today, clearly out of nick and knew he only had so long before he got one with his name on so decided to almost hit himself back into form and hopefully thats worked, him firing strengthens this England side so much.

Still not convinced by Moeen (with the ball), big day for him tomorrow. Think he got gifted a couple of wickets first inns as the typically arrogant Aussie approach was to hit him out of the attack. I get that with a Swann type but some one like Moeen who bowls enough bad balls anyway just didnt see the need to take the risks they did in trying to get after him. Tomorrow at some stage the pressure goes onto him and he needs to respond (or his place comes further under pressure by Rashid), that said if this is the sort of pitch were expecting then you'll be trying to get them both in the side!


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Dont go overboard too soon mate, been very few "great" performances (root 1st inns once haddin had dropped him on 0), been some good ones on a pretty poor deck and weve certainly had the rub of the green too.

Johnson looks a busted flush (I argued he shouldnt even be in there side a couple of weeks ago on the likely surface in cardiff and he probably wouldnt have been if it hadnt been the ashes), loss of Harris a huge blow for them too.

England seem to have some decent plans, reflects well on the new management and badly on the Moores regime (no real shock there). Hopefully we're not gonna play the whole series on slow low dry breaking up decks but I expect that may well be what has been "ordered"
		
Click to expand...

Harris would have been the perfect bowler on this wicket. Johnson has bowled ok, I can remember when he had no idea where it was going and couldn't hit the pitch. Can't believe we will play on a slower wicket with so little bounce again in this series. He still kept up a good pace at the end of the day, and I wouldn't write him off. Starc looks good, but is obviously carrying an injury.

Good news that all nearly all the batsmen have got some runs, and the bowlers some wickets. We don't want to rely on one or two players. Confidence should be high, assuming we win.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

richart said:



			Harris would have been the perfect bowler on this wicket. Johnson has bowled ok, I can remember when he had no idea where it was going and couldn't hit the pitch. Can't believe we will play on a slower wicket with so little bounce again in this series. He still kept up a good pace at the end of the day, and I wouldn't write him off. Starc looks good, but is obviously carrying an injury.

Good news that all nearly all the batsmen have got some runs, and the bowlers some wickets.* We don't want to rely on one or two players.* Confidence should be high, assuming we win.

Click to expand...

However you look at it, we will be heavily reliant on Root and Andersen if we are going to win this series. Both are clearly world class currently and not a side in the world they wouldnt walk into. Hopefully the others can get to a level close to these 2!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			No need to rehash the KP debate, is he in the best 6 batters yes, is he ever going to be picked again no.

As for Cook, as you know I still dont rate him as a captain, appears to me his strings are being pulled a bit better from behind with the new management but we'll see more as the series develops. As a batter, we dont have better options (and nor do other sides!)

Liked Bells approach today, clearly out of nick and knew he only had so long before he got one with his name on so decided to almost hit himself back into form and hopefully thats worked, him firing strengthens this England side so much.

Still not convinced by Moeen (with the ball), big day for him tomorrow. Think he got gifted a couple of wickets first inns as the typically arrogant Aussie approach was to hit him out of the attack. I get that with a Swann type but some one like Moeen who bowls enough bad balls anyway just didnt see the need to take the risks they did in trying to get after him. Tomorrow at some stage the pressure goes onto him and he needs to respond (or his place comes further under pressure by Rashid), that said if this is the sort of pitch were expecting then you'll be trying to get them both in the side!
		
Click to expand...

Cant disagree with much of that 

ALi will have a wicket that should help a bit tomorrow but think the four seamers will be the crucial bowlers.

With Bell getting runs and Lyth looking more confident and Ballance showing he can really dig in that could be a very good top 5 then with Stokes,Buttler and ALi behind its a long line. 

Wood i think is going to be the star


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Cant disagree with much of that 

ALi will have a wicket that should help a bit tomorrow but think the four seamers will be the crucial bowlers.

With Bell getting runs and Lyth looking more confident and Ballance showing he can really dig in that could be a very good top 5 then with Stokes,Buttler and ALi behind its a long line. 

Wood i think is going to be the star
		
Click to expand...

Yeah I like what Ive seen of Wood, already a little concerned how England manage him, hated seeing him in the ODI squad (albeit he performed well). Would love to see him on a proper hard and fast deck, think he may shock a few given the chance (he may have to wait till we go back down under for that now tho).

Batting depth is huge, just need to make sure weve enough bowling in it to get 20 wickets when not being gifted wickets. Not convinced that we have on flatter decks but the way modern test cricket is going the balance may be close to right


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Yeah I like what Ive seen of Wood, already a little concerned how England manage him, hated seeing him in the ODI squad (albeit he performed well). Would love to see him on a proper hard and fast deck, think he may shock a few given the chance (he may have to wait till we go back down under for that now tho).

Batting depth is huge, just need to make sure weve enough bowling in it to get 20 wickets when not being gifted wickets. Not convinced that we have on flatter decks but the way modern test cricket is going the balance may be close to right
		
Click to expand...

Just a quality spinner missing ?!


----------



## TheDiablo (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just a quality spinner missing ?!
		
Click to expand...

Yes. And it's so important. Moeen bowls too many bad balls to create any pressure on flat 1st innings decks, and not good enough on turning second innings ones. 

I'm not sure who the answer is though, and would love to be proved wrong over the course of this series.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just a quality spinner missing ?!
		
Click to expand...

Would make a massive difference for sure (albeit theres very few left in test cricket after the recent cull on chuckers). Ideally Id like one more seamer (prob at Broads expense currently) and one more quality top 3 batter (instead of Ballance/Lyth maybe) but you can always want to improve, spin definitely the weak department currently (and although id love to be proved wrong im not convinced rashid is the answer either).

What is to like is a group of younger players all who seem happy to play for each other, several of them still got plenty to prove long term but most will you would think, given the right environment to function in


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			However you look at it, we will be heavily reliant on Root and Andersen if we are going to win this series. Both are clearly world class currently and not a side in the world they wouldnt walk into. Hopefully the others can get to a level close to these 2!
		
Click to expand...

 Agree we need the others to pull their weight, but Broad bowled with more control, and swung the ball, Wood reminds me of Simon Jones, skiddy, and with a good yorker, and Stokes looks like a decent 4th seamer. Certainly stronger than Watson for the Aussies.

Moeen also picked up the Aussies two best players of spin, which should do his confidence some good.

Trevor Bayliss seems to be getting a lot more out of the players than Moores. Bit like Lehman did when he took over the Aussies. Didn't change the team much, but just got better performances out of the same players.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

TheDiablo said:



			Yes. And it's so important. Moeen bowls too many bad balls to create any pressure on flat 1st innings decks, and not good enough on turning second innings ones. 

I'm not sure who the answer is though, and would love to be proved wrong over the course of this series.
		
Click to expand...

I dont think we are alone though - test cricket isnt littered with too many top quality spinners


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Would make a massive difference for sure (albeit theres very few left in test cricket after the recent cull on chuckers). Ideally Id like one more seamer (prob at Broads expense currently) and one more quality top 3 batter (instead of Ballance/Lyth maybe) but you can always want to improve, spin definitely the weak department currently (and although id love to be proved wrong im not convinced rashid is the answer either).

What is to like is a group of younger players all who seem happy to play for each other, several of them still got plenty to prove long term but most will you would think, given the right environment to function in
		
Click to expand...

Right now i think Broad is earning his place in the side - bowled very well in the first innings

Think Lyth could very well turn into a Langer for us Ballance at the moment is digging in but is the one at risk


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

richart said:



			Agree we need the others to pull their weight, but Broad bowled with more control, and swung the ball, Wood reminds me of Simon Jones, skiddy, and with a good yorker, and Stokes looks like a decent 4th seamer. Certainly stronger than Watson for the Aussies.

Moeen also picked up the Aussies two best players of spin, which should do his confidence some good.

Trevor Bayliss seems to be getting a lot more out of the players than Moores. Bit like Lehman did when he took over the Aussies. Didn't change the team much, but just got better performances out of the same players.
		
Click to expand...

Haha hes a strong 4th seamer cos hes better than Watson - not the biggest recommendation lol!!!!! How Watson is is their side Im really not sure (and expect Mitch Marsh replaces him in 2nd or 3rd test).

Yes Moeen got their big 2, but in fairness both of them gave it away trying to get after him (for no real reason imo), as I say lot to prove for me (and I still have him as a part time not front line spinner). That said he may be the best test match number 8 there is!

No real shock that Moores replacement is getting more out of them, dont know enough of Bayliss to have a strong opinion but its started pretty well for him (it actually started when Moores and his restrictions went if being pedantic)


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now i think Broad is earning his place in the side - bowled very well in the first innings

Think Lyth could very well turn into a Langer for us Ballance at the moment is digging in but is the one at risk
		
Click to expand...

Broad looks a little short of overs again to me, should of played a bit more since end of NZ series. Expect he improves as the series goes on.

Jury still out on both Lyth and Ballance for me, the plus for both is temperament, both have some technical issues to address, but its very early for both and both should be given plenty of time to prove themselves

the 2 really exciting ones are Butler and Stokes, both still got plenty to prove and improve but both could be massive players for a long long time to come at the very top level


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Broad looks a little short of overs again to me, should of played a bit more since end of NZ series. Expect he improves as the series goes on.

Jury still out on both Lyth and Ballance for me, the plus for both is temperament, both have some technical issues to address, but its very early for both and both should be given plenty of time to prove themselves

the 2 really exciting ones are Butler and Stokes, both still got plenty to prove and improve but both could be massive players for a long long time to come at the very top level
		
Click to expand...

As a Somsert guy been a massive fan of Buttler for years but also Stokes - he was a breath of fresh air when he first arrived and i think he could become as dangerous as Freddie with the ball but far better with the bat. His potential is massive.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As a Somsert guy been a massive fan of Buttler for years but also Stokes - he was a breath of fresh air when he first arrived and i think he could become as dangerous as Freddie with the ball but far better with the bat. His potential is massive.
		
Click to expand...

Worryingly he could be as bad as Freddie in the bar off the pitch too!!!!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Worryingly he could be as bad as Freddie in the bar off the pitch too!!!!!
		
Click to expand...

 not always a bad thing - did you see the business about his OCD with the sweeping of the bat


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Haha hes a strong 4th seamer cos hes better than Watson - not the biggest recommendation lol!!!!! How Watson is is their side Im really not sure (and expect Mitch Marsh replaces him in 2nd or 3rd test).

Yes Moeen got their big 2, but in fairness both of them gave it away trying to get after him (for no real reason imo), as I say lot to prove for me (and I still have him as a part time not front line spinner). That said he may be the best test match number 8 there is!

No real shock that Moores replacement is getting more out of them, dont know enough of Bayliss to have a strong opinion but its started pretty well for him (it actually started when Moores and his restrictions went if being pedantic)
		
Click to expand...

Aussies basically playing four bowlers, and one looks injured. You need a five man attack, unless you have four world class bowlers. I think all the England bowlers will chip in over the series, just as they did in 2005.

Moeen bowled superbly against India last year, got injured, and then came back too soon in the Windies. The more he bowls, starting tomorrow, the better he should become.

I stll feel we have a good collapse awaiting in the batting. Personally would put Root in at four and Bell at five. Bell struggles against the newer ball, which he always seems to come in against. Having your best batsman at five is too low for me, and we are not always going to recover from 40 odd for three.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



 not always a bad thing - did you see the business about his OCD with the sweeping of the bat
		
Click to expand...

No didnt see that, amazing how many players have these sort of things tho. Played club cricket for years with Nic Pothas before he went to Hampshire, there was a man who hadevery little superstition possible!!!


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

richart said:



			Aussies basically playing four bowlers, and one looks injured. You need a five man attack, unless you have four world class bowlers. I think all the England bowlers will chip in over the series, just as they did in 2005.

Moeen bowled superbly against India last year, got injured, and then came back too soon in the Windies. The more he bowls, starting tomorrow, the better he should become.

I stll feel we have a good collapse awaiting in the batting. Personally would put Root in at four and Bell at five. Bell struggles against the newer ball, which he always seems to come in against. Having your best batsman at five is too low for me, and we are not always going to recover from 40 odd for three.
		
Click to expand...

Brave man who moves Root from 5 after the success hes had to date. Bells been about long enough to be good enough to bat at 4 thats for sure, just not at his best of late. May be coming to the end, fair chance he doesnt go on much past this series unless he gets a shedload


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			Brave man who moves Root from 5 after the success hes had to date. Bells been about long enough to be good enough to bat at 4 thats for sure, just not at his best of late. May be coming to the end, fair chance he doesnt go on much past this series unless he gets a shedload
		
Click to expand...

Do you really think a change of position would affect Root ?  Just feel that Bell will get more runs coming in at 200 for three, than 40 for two. He batted at six for years, then five, and only recently moved to four when Pietersen was dropped.

Steve Smith batted six when he first came into the Aussie team, and quickly moved up to three. Clarke moved up from five to four and hasn't done too badly. Your best batsmen should be at three or four so they can have the biggest influence on the game. When Bell retires/is dropped Root will move up anyway.


----------



## fundy (Jul 10, 2015)

richart said:



			Do you really think a change of position would affect Root ?  Just feel that Bell will get more runs coming in at 200 for three, than 40 for two. He batted at six for years, then five, and only recently moved to four when Pietersen was dropped.

Steve Smith batted six when he first came into the Aussie team, and quickly moved up to three. Clarke moved up from five to four and hasn't done too badly. Your best batsmen should be at three or four so they can have the biggest influence on the game. When Bell retires/is dropped Root will move up anyway.
		
Click to expand...

No, in fairness he'll probably get even more at 4 as longer to bat but he did look a little vulnerable when he started at 3 (clearly a far better player now), would just leave as is for now rather than have an excuse for his form deteriorating


----------



## richart (Jul 10, 2015)

fundy said:



			No, in fairness he'll probably get even more at 4 as longer to bat but he did look a little vulnerable when he started at 3 (clearly a far better player now), would just leave as is for now rather than have an excuse for his form deteriorating
		
Click to expand...

 I agree, leave for this series, but going forward ....

Amazing change in Root since he was dropped in Australia. Out there he was just looking to survive. Now he is looking to dominate bowling attacks. Love his straight bat drive off the back foot. Reminds me so much of Geoff Boycott.oo:


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2015)

OK thats Broad proving me wrong this morning, utterly superb spell hes bowled, bit harsh only to have the one wicket so far, now over to you Moeen


----------



## richart (Jul 11, 2015)

fundy said:



			OK thats Broad proving me wrong this morning, utterly superb spell hes bowled, bit harsh only to have the one wicket so far, now over to you Moeen 

Click to expand...

 Broad tends to bowl better in the second innings with the pitch deteriorating. Reminds me of Caddick, tall bowler that gets more movement off the pitch, and some uneven bounce.

Vital wicket just before lunch.:thup:


----------



## Tongo (Jul 11, 2015)

Great stuff from England. Playing cricket with a smile on their faces. Such a difference from the data driven Moores era.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 11, 2015)

Mark Wood in many ways is the fella best demonstrating the new ethos of this England team: something a bit different and enjoying himself. Bravo!


----------



## Tongo (Jul 11, 2015)

Well done England. That is a hugely impressive victory. Great cricket, refreshing cricket, enjoyable cricket that has reaped rewards. It wont always end this way but the ride will certainly be more interesting and generate a much better atmosphere and feeling about the team. 


And for a pitch that was supposedly lifeless there has been a strangely reasonably equal balance between bat and ball. Fair play to that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2015)

Is one humble pie enough ?


----------



## Tongo (Jul 11, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is one humble pie enough ?
		
Click to expand...

I recall chomping on humble pie during the NZ series!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 11, 2015)

Good performance from England against an Aussie side that played poorly and with an attack that looked lack lustre and Johnson looked out of sorts. I think they'll come back hard but the England side looks capable. Of course had Root not been dropped on zero it could have been a whole different game


----------



## richart (Jul 11, 2015)

Sets the series up nicely. Good contributions from all the England bowlers. Good to see we did not just rely on Anderson. I think we need all five bowlers to take their share of wickets to win the Ashes back.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2015)

Tongo said:



			I recall chomping on humble pie during the NZ series!
		
Click to expand...

Plenty to go around especially on social media - Mr Morgan can have a whole pie to himself

I'm delighted with the win - it was a great test match throughout and knew that this wasn't going to be the thrashing people predicted - it was all based on ODI not test


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2015)

richart said:



			Sets the series up nicely. Good contributions from all the England bowlers. Good to see we did not just rely on Anderson. I think we need all five bowlers to take their share of wickets to win the Ashes back.
		
Click to expand...

He bowled superbly this morning and throughout the test - his bowling was too good to get the edge at times


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2015)

Took a great deal of pleasure of availing the Aussie half of herselfs family the good news [just in case they already hadn't heard ....

Amazing how many words, from the dictionary of profanity, go well with convict! 

Had to let them know early as they might well be the worlds greatest party animals, here in Earls Court, but back home they are safely tucked up in bed by nine at the latest ...


----------



## G.U.R (Jul 13, 2015)

OK I'm here for my slice of humble pie, didn't see that result coming even after the NZ series. Will be interesting to here what Mark Butcher has to say as he was particularly scathing prior to the start about England's chances. I still think that Bell shouldn't be in the team, but like anything it's all about opinions. Still on to Lords and a totally different track.


----------



## TheDiablo (Jul 13, 2015)

Just received a text from the Gods (well,  my dad anyway) 

'do you want to go to Lords Thursday? '

Get in!


----------



## Snelly (Jul 16, 2015)

I am not enjoying the second test as much as the first if I am completely honest.


----------



## fundy (Jul 16, 2015)

yet another horrific dry lifeless pitch for the start of a test match, who would want to be a bowler these days!!!! cant remember the last time I saw someone bowl properly quick on English  (or most non aus/sa/nz) decks, utterly no point at all, these days its about "putting" it in the right areas and "staying patient" - each to their own but still prefer a decent balance between bat and ball personally

need to get some more moisture into the pitches so that there is more pace and bounce in them, the bowlers chance shouldnt come only when an overly dry deck starts to break up (and i fully doubt this one will within 10 days let alone 5)

only wicket today is because warner really is utterly stupid, there again that comes as no shock to most

there again the old boys at the ecb and mcc will be chuffed they get 5 days gate receipts


----------



## Tongo (Jul 17, 2015)

fundy said:



			yet another horrific dry lifeless pitch for the start of a test match, who would want to be a bowler these days!!!! cant remember the last time I saw someone bowl properly quick on English  (or most non aus/sa/nz) decks, utterly no point at all, *these days its about "putting" it in the right areas and "staying patient" - each to their own but still prefer a decent balance between bat and ball personally
*
need to get some more moisture into the pitches so that there is more pace and bounce in them, the bowlers chance shouldnt come only when an overly dry deck starts to break up (and i fully doubt this one will within 10 days let alone 5)

only wicket today is because warner really is utterly stupid, there again that comes as no shock to most

*there again the old boys at the ecb and mcc will be chuffed they get 5 days gate receipts*

Click to expand...

Yes, its all about getting as many day's play as possible rather than producing a pitch for a decent contest. The ECB's policy of "selling" test matches to grounds is fast becoming a joke. It seems host grounds would rather see 5 days of tedium that a game finish inside 3 days. Even Lords, with all its financial advantages, cant produce a decent pitch.


----------



## Snelly (Jul 17, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Yes, its all about getting as many day's play as possible rather than producing a pitch for a decent contest. The ECB's policy of "selling" test matches to grounds is fast becoming a joke. It seems host grounds would rather see 5 days of tedium that a game finish inside 3 days. Even Lords, with all its financial advantages, cant produce a decent pitch.
		
Click to expand...

I don't agree.  I think the reason the pitch is like this is because the English management team have requested it from the Lords groundsman in order to nullify the Australian pace attack.  Cardiff was the same to an extent but there, we won the toss and it favoured England as a result.   I think this pitch is different though and could well stay like this for the majority of the Test.  Plus, losing the toss means this entire strategy for the pitch has has backfired as without the ball swinging at all, our bowlers are toothless too.


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2015)

Snelly said:



			I don't agree.  *I think the reason the pitch is like this is because the English management team have requested it from the Lords groundsman in order to nullify the Australian pace attack*.  Cardiff was the same to an extent but there, we won the toss and it favoured England as a result.   I think this pitch is different though and could well stay like this for the majority of the Test.  Plus, losing the toss means this entire strategy for the pitch has has backfired as without the ball swinging at all, our bowlers are toothless too.
		
Click to expand...

Which I think is a stupid policy. We need decks that have a bit in them, as we need to take 20 wickets to win test matches. English conditions are our strength, not pitches that look like they've been flown in from India.


----------



## patricks148 (Jul 17, 2015)

Lords pitches over the last few years have got flatter as the game has gone on, though its hard to see how this one could get any flatter!


----------



## Snelly (Jul 17, 2015)

Piece said:



			Which I think is a stupid policy. We need decks that have a bit in them, as we need to take 20 wickets to win test matches. English conditions are our strength, not pitches that look like they've been flown in from India.
		
Click to expand...

Agree 100%.


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2015)

Whats worse for me is the pitches have lost their own identity, they all used to be very very different but of late (since the new drainage was installed across the test grounds) theyve all become very samey, lacking in pace and bounce because they are so much drier. Not sure they could get a fast bouncy one at Lords if they tried anymore (their only other choice would be to leave more grass on it but they wont risk the gate receipts doing that!)


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2015)

Oh dear Lyth that's a shocker. Test opener you are not.


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2015)

cant be long before Roots batting at 3, must feel like he is anyway lol


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2015)

Oops. 29-3. Deja-vu....


----------



## Piece (Jul 17, 2015)

Another poor shot. 30-4. TAXI!


----------



## patricks148 (Jul 17, 2015)

same old England....


----------



## Tongo (Jul 17, 2015)

Pitch is benign......apparently. 

Curated as such to negate the Aussie bowlers! Well that worked.


----------



## fundy (Jul 17, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Pitch is benign......apparently. 

Curated as such to negate the Aussie bowlers! Well that worked.
		
Click to expand...

pitch is benign, had nothing to do with any of the 4 wickets, 2 were bowled by full deliveries and 2 wafted at short and wide ones. none of them did anything of note off the pitch at all. aussies bowled superbly first up but the batting was rather complicit sadly


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jul 18, 2015)

So the best we can hope for is a draw, but to achieve that, the middle order and tail are going do have to do some serious wagging, the Aussies will have a significant first innings lead and will go in to bat for a few hours to add a couple of hundred more, then aim to bowl us out.

Anyone know a raindance?


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 18, 2015)

The real England are back


----------



## Deleted member 3432 (Jul 18, 2015)

Aussies not whining about a slow wicket now are they. England's lack of top order runs throughout the summer catching up with them now. Can't expect middle order to bail them out every game.

Don't see many obvious top order alternatives without making some positional changes in the batting order.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 18, 2015)

saving_par said:



			Aussies not whining about a slow wicket now are they. England's lack of top order runs throughout the summer catching up with them now. Can't expect middle order to bail them out every game.

Don't see many obvious top order alternatives without making some positional changes in the batting order.
		
Click to expand...

Bairstow is the man scoring the runs but, to me, he just doesnt look like he's gonna cut it at test level. Bell's gonna keep his place in the team cos there's no-one else to replace him whilst they will persist with Lyth, i think, cos England are struggling to find an opening partner for Cook.


----------



## Deleted member 3432 (Jul 18, 2015)

Going to have to stick with Lyth I think, Balance looks way out of his depth at 3. In that position you have to be able to deal with the short ball and he simply can't. This affects his whole technique and he is hanging back waiting for it.

An in form Bell would be the obvious move at 3 but he is a walking wicket at the moment. We seem to be starting every innings 3 down at present.


----------



## fundy (Jul 18, 2015)

Not too many putting their hand up in county cricket sadly. Bairstow the best formwise but not really what we need (an attritional top 3 type), likewise Taylor (not got that many runs and not really a top 3 option).

That leaves options that have been tried before, likes of Carberry, Compton and Robson (all averaging in the high 30s) and none screaming to be picked

Who else? Hales? Morgan? Northeast? Westley?

Cant see anyone there as a better option than the current incumbents, the best options would lead to having to move Root from 5 to probably 3 and I cant see that happpening, at least not yet anyway


----------



## Deleted member 3432 (Jul 18, 2015)

fundy;13313
ot too many putting their hand up in county cricket sadly. Bairstow the best formwise but not really what we need (an attritional top 3 type) said:
			
		


			If we want to win the ashes Root may have to move up to 3. Current line up not up to it.

Only way I can see it happening though is Root himself requesting the move.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 18, 2015)

That early collapse has killed England's chance of saving the game. Weather won't help now and I can't see them batting for a day and a half to survive. Not sure if the bowling was poor in the first innings or the Aussies hit form and can't see why we couldn't do the same on what looked a decent batting wicket


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 19, 2015)

Looks like we're going to get thumped, one silver lining though, Warner looks a right knob jockey with that tash


----------



## paddyc (Jul 19, 2015)

Another shocking collapse by the top order and lucky if we can survive the day now, Stokes should be fined his match fee for an inexcusable schoolboy error,what an idiot,

Thought we was just going steamroller the aussies after 1st test and stories of unrest in their camp. 

Time for changes-Lyth out ,Ballance out, Bell don't know.


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2015)

paddyc said:



			Another shocking collapse by the top order and lucky if we can survive the day now, Stokes should be fined his match fee for an inexcusable schoolboy error,what an idiot,

Thought we was just going steamroller the aussies after 1st test and stories of unrest in their camp. 

Time for changes-Lyth out ,Ballance out, Bell don't know.
		
Click to expand...

who you replacing them with paddy? easy to drop them, not so easy to replace with better


----------



## paddyc (Jul 19, 2015)

fundy said:



			who you replacing them with paddy? easy to drop them, not so easy to replace with better
		
Click to expand...

Dont know mate but I used to be a bit useful with some willow in my hand


----------



## paddyc (Jul 19, 2015)

paddyc said:



			Another shocking collapse by the top order and lucky if we can survive the day now, Stokes should be fined his match fee for an inexcusable schoolboy error,what an idiot,

Thought we was just going steamroller the aussies after 1st test and stories of unrest in their camp. 

Time for changes-Lyth out ,Ballance out, Bell don't know.
		
Click to expand...

Make that Buttler too!


----------



## fundy (Jul 19, 2015)

paddyc said:



			Dont know mate but I used to be a bit useful with some willow in my hand
		
Click to expand...

Better pack your boots and head for Birmingham on the 29th then


----------



## Piece (Jul 19, 2015)

We've been totally slapped. Same old top order collapse and the manor of rolling over is rubbish. Is 1-4 on the cards? Hmmmm.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 19, 2015)

Terrible performance. Totally outclassed in all departments. I think there has to be changes even if that means blooding new players. Couldn't bat any worse than those on show today


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 19, 2015)

Piece said:



			Is 1-4 on the cards? Hmmmm.
		
Click to expand...


Seeing as 0-5 predictions were easy to find [and we'd be lucky to get the zero] we are ahead of where most thought we'd be...

Still hugely disappointing though...


----------



## fundy (Jul 20, 2015)

seems James Taylor is thrusting his hand up and shouting me me me today. Currently 275 not out for Notts v Sussex in div 1 of the CC.

one bit of advice, dont get 355, seems the selectors dont like that number


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 20, 2015)

This is exactly why KP should have stayed in England, and continued to plunder runs for Surrey. If he'd hit another couple of tons, the outcry for his recall would have been huge. As it stands, he's made one score and is now sunning himself in Miami.

Bairstow and Hales in for Ballance and Bell for me. Line up with:

Cook
Lyth
Hales
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Buttler
Broad
Wood
Anderson


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 20, 2015)

See KP has been bleating on social media. Should have stayed at the Oval and let the bat do the talking. Nothing but sour grapes now


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			This is exactly why KP should have stayed in England, and continued to plunder runs for Surrey. If he'd hit another couple of tons, the outcry for his recall would have been huge. As it stands, he's made one score and is now sunning himself in Miami.

Bairstow and Hales in for Ballance and Bell for me. Line up with:

Cook
Lyth
Hales
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Buttler
Broad
Wood
Anderson
		
Click to expand...

No surprise after one defeat the KP is mentioned again 

Also why would you put someone in at 3 who doesn't play three for his county in any form of the game - both Bell and Balance played vital roles in the win at Cardiff which appears to have been quickly forgotten about 

It's finely balanced right now with a win each so no need for too many drastic changes


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 20, 2015)

The thing is, England have had poor starts in seven out of the last ten tests and been 30 or 40 something for three or four. They never get off to a solid start in the way Australia did at Lords and so are always reliant on the middle order making a big score. The Aussies (West Indies and NZ did it as well) know they just have to strangle the middle order and create pressure and get a wicket. The players can't play their normal game, get pressured into playing risky shots to keep the run rate going and get out.


----------



## Piece (Jul 20, 2015)

Ballance and Lyth aren't technically good enough and have been found out. They are walking wickets. I would like to see something like this:

Cook
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Hales
Buttler
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2015)

Piece said:



			Ballance and Lyth aren't technically good enough and have been found out. They are walking wickets. I would like to see something like this:

Cook
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Hales
Buttler
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson
		
Click to expand...

Why do people want to play players at positions that aren't their bread and butter ?!

Since when has Bell been a test opener ?! 

Hales at 6 !?

And dropping Ali again a week after his great performance at Cardiff.

It's like the 1990's again


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 20, 2015)

But changes have to be made. We fail to make starts regularly and there are a number of players already worked out by the Aussies. Easy to sat we shouldn't do x or y but not many suggestions as to who should play. I happen to agree Bell isn't an opener though but Lyth doesn't look comfy wither


----------



## Piece (Jul 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why do people want to play players at positions that aren't their bread and butter ?!

Since when has Bell been a test opener ?! 

Hales at 6 !?

And dropping Ali again a week after his great performance at Cardiff.

It's like the 1990's again
		
Click to expand...

And that's where your thinking remains: stuck in 90s. Why shouldn't Bell open? He has done it before in ODIs. His technique is good enough when he is playing well. In fact, he has batted in every position in the top six for England, so what's his 'bread n butter' position then? 

We should encourage a change in batting order to freshen things up, not just persist with the same top order which clearly isn't working and hasn't worked for months. Hence Hales at six. Something new and dare I say a positive move to take the game to the Aussies, give them something different. They've a blue print to get Lyth and Ballance out, and if you ask them who would they like to see coming out to bat, they would say those names in a flash.

Slightly unfair on Ali maybe, but we need a front line spinner not just a batter that bowls a bit. Mind you, Rashid should have been playing in the Windies, but that's old water under a very old bridge now.

Let's be clear. If we go in the with same ideas and line up, it's looking like Ashes 2013 all over again. And yes, I do remember we won at Cardiff. The performance at Lords showed that Cardiff victory was probably a one-off.

Cook and the management had their way of playing cricket changed for the better with the NZ games. Thank God. I'm hoping that has opened our eyes in how positive changes and attitude can be good - let's not wait and persist in our typical English stubborn ways that 'change isn't good'. Nowadays it is and we must evolve proactively not reactively.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 21, 2015)

Piece said:



			And that's where your thinking remains: stuck in 90s. Why shouldn't Bell open? He has done it before in ODIs. His technique is good enough when he is playing well. In fact, he has batted in every position in the top six for England, so what's his 'bread n butter' position then? 

We should encourage a change in batting order to freshen things up, not just persist with the same top order which clearly isn't working and hasn't worked for months. Hence Hales at six. Something new and dare I say a positive move to take the game to the Aussies, give them something different. They've a blue print to get Lyth and Ballance out, and if you ask them who would they like to see coming out to bat, they would say those names in a flash.

Slightly unfair on Ali maybe, but we need a front line spinner not just a batter that bowls a bit. Mind you, Rashid should have been playing in the Windies, but that's old water under a very old bridge now.

Let's be clear. If we go in the with same ideas and line up, it's looking like Ashes 2013 all over again. And yes, I do remember we won at Cardiff. The performance at Lords showed that Cardiff victory was probably a one-off.

Cook and the management had their way of playing cricket changed for the better with the NZ games. Thank God. I'm hoping that has opened our eyes in how positive changes and attitude can be good - let's not wait and persist in our typical English stubborn ways that 'change isn't good'. Nowadays it is and we must evolve proactively not reactively.
		
Click to expand...

Bell's not even worth a place in the side at the moment, let alone opening. He's just fortunate that there's no real decent players waiting to take his place.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 21, 2015)

Bell can't buy a run at 4, why would you want to move him up the order? Lyth scored a Test ton not long ago, and we've chopped and changed the openers so much recently, give him one more at least. Ballance and Bell have to go though, we can't keep starting an innings 40-3


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2015)

I have no issues with making changes but no square pegs in round holes 

The simple ones is Bell and Ballance with Taylor and Bairstow coming in with Root to three


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no issues with making changes but no square pegs in round holes 

The simple ones is Bell and Ballance with Taylor and Bairstow coming in with Root to three
		
Click to expand...

That's probably what I would agree with. Sounds logical, and Bell (despite his good innings the other week) just hasn't looked up to it for a while. Same with Ballance. Whilst I think Lyth really is not earning his place, there really isn't much that could replace him (that I've heard of!)

How long before the selectors try and jam Root into opening...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			That's probably what I would agree with. Sounds logical, and Bell (despite his good innings the other week) just hasn't looked up to it for a while. Same with Ballance. Whilst I think Lyth really is not earning his place, there really isn't much that could replace him (that I've heard of!)

How long before the selectors try and jam Root into opening...
		
Click to expand...

Already been tried there

I would go back to Compton to open 

They may even give Bell a go at three and only bring in one player


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Already been tried there

I would go back to Compton to open 

They may even give Bell a go at three and only bring in one player
		
Click to expand...

They'll try it again!

Was it Compton in teh last Ashes who actually played alright? From what I remember, Boycott was fairly impressed with him as he was one of the few with the guts to face the fast ball properly, even if he was lacking in technique. Think he was saying it's easier to coach technique than it is to grow a pair.

I can't see Bell doing much better at three, but hard to know unless they try! Something has to change with the openers, as other than that it's going fairly well. Broady/Anderson/Wood/Stokes make a good team (massive fan of Wood), and I like Ali spinning. Just need to sort the opening batsman so we're not done over in the first 10 overs!


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 21, 2015)

Bring back Bopara!


----------



## Piece (Jul 21, 2015)

We may find that Bell gets dropped down the order.  Agree though that he his clinging on to his place.

Lyth is in the same boat as other recent openers for England, Robson and Compton. Get a ton quickly then have a few poor games and you are out. It was less than 12 months ago that Robson got 127 v Sri Lanka. Would like to see Compton given another ago but can't see that happening.


----------



## patricks148 (Jul 21, 2015)

not many setting alight the county game, but here's a thought.

bring back Ramps, slot him in at 3, Tresco back opening sorted


----------



## FairwayDodger (Jul 21, 2015)

Need to draft in a few south african ringers!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2015)

Both Robson and Compton had about 7/8 tests each scored hundreds ( one for Robson and 2 for Compton ) but one below par series and they were dumped never to be seen again 

Yet you have players like Bopara who keep getting chance after chance despite failure after failure 

Both Compton and Robson should have been given another series at the least to show they could score runs up top


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 21, 2015)

To be fair, Robson was dropped because he had a clear technical fault that if he had remained in the England squad would have continued to have been found out. That one was fair enough, but Compton was weird. He played reasonably well, but was dropped more for batting slow than not looking good enough. An average of 31 with 2 hundreds in 17 innings isn't too bad, certainly not droppable form. Should stick with Lyth for now though, at least give him the series to see what he can do. We've been far too quick to chop and change in recent years.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 21, 2015)

Bairstow in for Ballance the only change. Bell apparently set to bat 3.


----------



## fundy (Jul 21, 2015)

Ballance dropped for Bairstow, Bell up to 3, Root to 4

Feels very much like they felt required to make a change, feels a bit contrived bringing in a number 6 for a number 3 though and having to shuffle things around. Be surprised if its the only change before the end of the series


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2015)

fundy said:



			Ballance dropped for Bairstow, Bell up to 3, Root to 4

Feels very much like they felt required to make a change, feels a bit contrived bringing in a number 6 for a number 3 though and having to shuffle things around. Be surprised if its the only change before the end of the series
		
Click to expand...

Think it's a message to Bell to stand up and be counted now - he is the senior batsman and it's time his talent showed that now - it's what Vaughan suggested this morning


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 21, 2015)

Worried about this. Bell's batted 3 in Tests before and been very average. He's much better at 5 or 6. To give you the stats:

#3: 38 innings 1453 runs at 39 with 2 hundreds
#4: 49 innings 1558 runs at 33 with 4 hundreds
#5: 60 innings 2461 runs at 48 with 9 hundreds
#6: 37 innings 1618 runs at 60 with 6 hundreds

Bell's a much better lower middle order player than he is a top order player. Should have bought someone in like Hales or Taylor to bat 3.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 21, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Worried about this. Bell's batted 3 in Tests before and been very average. He's much better at 5 or 6. To give you the stats:

#3: 38 innings 1453 runs at 39 with 2 hundreds
#4: 49 innings 1558 runs at 33 with 4 hundreds
#5: 60 innings 2461 runs at 48 with 9 hundreds
#6: 37 innings 1618 runs at 60 with 6 hundreds

Bell's a much better lower middle order player than he is a top order player. Should have bought someone in like Hales or Taylor to bat 3.
		
Click to expand...

Would be interesting to see Bell's stats in the first innings compared to the second innings and how many of those hundreds came when England were up against it.


----------



## fundy (Jul 21, 2015)

Averages 49.45 with 17 hundreds batting first, 34.04 with 5 hundreds batting second.

Averages 57 when we win, 53 when we draw and only 26 when we lose

Ideally be good to know what the score was when he came in when he got hundreds but im not that bored currently to look into

Interestingly 15 tons when weve won, 7 when weve drawn and none when weve lost!

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9062.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2015)

Great start from England - really chuffed to see Finn back and looking dangerous.


----------



## Tongo (Jul 29, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great start from England - really chuffed to see Finn back and looking dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

Anderson on fire! 86/6 now. 

Yes, agree about Finn. Very good bowler and good to see him back and taking wickets.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Anderson on fire! 86/6 now. 

Yes, agree about Finn. Very good bowler and good to see him back and taking wickets.
		
Click to expand...

That gives us options and choices and competition for places which is all good.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 29, 2015)

This is more like it. Jimmeh at his best!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 29, 2015)

This is so good! Love it when Jimmeh bowls like this!


----------



## bladeplayer (Jul 29, 2015)

Wow !!!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 29, 2015)

Good day that. Bell will be gutted, was looking awesome and just threw it away. Hopefully Root and Bairstow will kick on tomorrow and lead us to a big first innings lead.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2015)

Great comeback from England. Shame Cook got out so freakishly and pleased to see Bell get 50 at home but we need to kick on tomorrow and build a big lead. I can't see the Aussies being so poor second time around


----------



## richart (Jul 29, 2015)

Great days cricket, though not the best day for my sky dish to conk out. Had to squint at it on the ipad, whick kept freezing. Worse moment was when Root nicked one, and the picture froze just as the ball was heading to first slip. Good job the cat was in hiding.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jul 30, 2015)

People with day 4 (possibly) & day 5 tickets could be disappointed again


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 30, 2015)

Loving Warnie's 'balanced' commentary...


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2015)

Warne is utterly intolerable in the commentary box.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2015)

This is a magnificent spell from Finn. Fast, accurate, threatening. Superb stuff.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2015)

Brilliant to watch - such a great comeback from Finn - not long ago he was "unselectable"


----------



## fundy (Jul 30, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brilliant to watch - such a great comeback from Finn - not long ago he was "unselectable"
		
Click to expand...

Yet more evidence at just how awful and destructive Saker was as bowling coach, great to see Finn back somewhere near to his natural best.

Injury to Andersen very worrying for the rest of the series!


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2015)

Especially with Trent Bridge next. Jimmeh is a gun at that ground!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2015)

fundy said:



			Yet more evidence at just how awful and destructive Saker was as bowling coach, great to see Finn back somewhere near to his natural best.

Injury to Andersen very worrying for the rest of the series!
		
Click to expand...

Harsh to blame it all on Saker when Finn had issues with his run hitting the wickets and he struggled with trying to adapt to a new run up 
- which he now has got sorted but it was a clear issue 

Lots of good stuff was said about Saker after the Ashes in 2010/11 -


----------



## fundy (Jul 30, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Harsh to blame it all on Saker when Finn had issues with his run hitting the wickets and he struggled with trying to adapt to a new run up 
- which he now has got sorted but it was a clear issue 

Lots of good stuff was said about Saker after the Ashes in 2010/11 -
		
Click to expand...

Believe what you want, the guy was horrific for English cricket, damaged several decent or potential quicks, Finn being top of the list and not brought through one decent bowler in his time. Wanted to make far too big changes to actions rather than fine tuning which is all a national coach should be doing, especially on tour and/or mid series


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2015)

Allan Donald the best bowling coach we have had since Troy Cooley.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2015)

fundy said:



			Believe what you want, the guy was horrific for English cricket, damaged several decent or potential quicks, Finn being top of the list and not brought through one decent bowler in his time. Wanted to make far too big changes to actions rather than fine tuning which is all a national coach should be doing, especially on tour and/or mid series
		
Click to expand...

Finn was a centrally contracted cricketer and gets paid by England and Middlesex were just as guilty with Finn by confusing him and not being on the same sheet as the England bowling coaches 

National coaches are now the prime coaches for the centrally contracted players - that's who pay them the big money not the county


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 30, 2015)

5 for Finn. Been awesome today. Bowled such a good line.


----------



## fundy (Jul 30, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Finn was a centrally contracted cricketer and gets paid by England and Middlesex were just as guilty with Finn by confusing him and not being on the same sheet as the England bowling coaches 

National coaches are now the prime coaches for the centrally contracted players - that's who pay them the big money not the county
		
Click to expand...

haha dont get me started on Middlesex and the clown in charge there


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2015)

fundy said:



			haha dont get me started on Middlesex and the clown in charge there
		
Click to expand...

And that was a massive issue with Finn - England coaches trying to help his run up one way - Middlesex another way , the lad had so many voices in his head about his run up and action he imploded and he has had to be rebuilt up from the beginning


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2015)

Well that's Bell showed a few and again England win

Seems lots of predictions way off mark


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2015)

Great win. Some really good performances all round. Anderson on day one, Root, Bell and Moeen with the bat and Finn in the 2nd innings. Lyth the only man that's desperate for a run. Tough to change a winning team, but Lyth is really clinging onto his place now. I wouldn't be against Hales coming in for the rest of the series.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 31, 2015)

100s of 1000s of pounds in revenue lost again.

Good win again,certainly a poor Aussie side


----------



## Grogger (Jul 31, 2015)

Great stuff from England! 

So glad to see the crowd getting under Mitchell Johnsons skin in his last over :clap:


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2015)

Who comes in for Jimmeh? Wood straight back in? Or do we draft someone else in? Plunkett? Bresnan? Rushworth? Brooks? Footitt? Plenty of options! Personally, I'd like to see someone different given a go, and Rushworth has been excellent for a while, give him a go.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2015)

Wood if fit 

If not then someone like Gurney or Woakes


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2015)

Great performance but I fear the Anderson injury will be a big blow and we may struggle. Great performance by Finn though and hope he and Broad will be able to spear hear the attack and whoever comes in will do a job. I have a feeling we'll going to a decider


----------



## Karl102 (Jul 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wood if fit 

If not then someone like Gurney or Woakes
		
Click to expand...

Wood is first in line and I really hope not Woakes. He is in the same vein of bowlers who can bat a bit and I think since the emergence of Stokes has fallen away. I shudder to think what will happen if they pick Plunkett! Rushworth has 60+ first division championship Wickets and may be worth a shout. Footitt and Jarvis both have 50+ but in the 2nd division....


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2015)

I'd rather Wood than any one


----------



## fundy (Jul 31, 2015)

It will almost certainly be Wood.

Woakes and Gurney not close to selection, if they go elsewhere more likely to be Plunkett or Footitt, possibly Rushworth. Youd expect Footitt having gone on the Spain trip means hes next in line currently


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2015)

Rushworth or Footitt should get a call up to the squad at least. Rushworth has 5-fers in his last 2 Championship games.

I like Wood, but I'm just not sure about an attack of Broad, Finn and Wood. No-one there with great control, all very capable of having very poor games, and if none of the 3 fire, which is quite possible, we could be in for a long Test. Rushworth gives you control, experience and a genuine wicket taking option. Footitt also brings variety, and swing which is what we'll be missing if we replace Jimmeh with Wood. It's a tough one, as Wood should be next in line, but balance of attack has to be considered.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Rushworth or Footitt should get a call up to the squad at least. Rushworth has 5-fers in his last 2 Championship games.

I like Wood, but I'm just not sure about an attack of Broad, Finn and Wood. No-one there with great control, all very capable of having very poor games, and if none of the 3 fire, which is quite possible, we could be in for a long Test. Rushworth gives you control, experience and a genuine wicket taking option. Footitt also brings variety, and swing which is what we'll be missing if we replace Jimmeh with Wood. It's a tough one, as Wood should be next in line, but balance of attack has to be considered.
		
Click to expand...

But at this stage of an Ashes series do we want to be putting untried bowlers at test level into the fray? Which seems to make the case for Wood stronger


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2015)

Yeah I guess. It's a tough one. Wood is the sensible and obvious choice, but in terms of balance, I'm not sure he's the best choice. Harsh to not pick him though.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2015)

Balance ? He was fine in the first two tests in regards Balance 

Wood is the guy they should and will go too - 4th test of the ashes isn't the right time to give someone a debut - especially when you are winning


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Balance ? He was fine in the first two tests in regards Balance 

Wood is the guy they should and will go too - 4th test of the ashes isn't the right time to give someone a debut - especially when you are winning
		
Click to expand...

Careful...that sounded very similar to what I posted. Planets may stop orbiting if we continue like that! I am hoping Finn will be on the crest of a wave and will get huge support from the crowd and that the team has the killer instinct to wrap it up. I fear the Aussies will bounce back like Lords. Will be a cracking game and hope the weather behaves


----------



## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Balance ? He was fine in the first two tests in regards Balance 

Wood is the guy they should and will go too - 4th test of the ashes isn't the right time to give someone a debut - especially when you are winning
		
Click to expand...

By balance, I mean a balanced seam attack. Broad, Finn and Wood are all very similar bowlers. None of them are swing bowlers, which is what Trent Bridge suits and they're all very capable of blowing up and having a shocker. Someone with a bit of variety, or consistency could be good. Not saying it should definitely happen, but should be considered. Broad, Finn and Wood is a very one-paced similar attack.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			By balance, I mean a balanced seam attack. Broad, Finn and Wood are all very similar bowlers. None of them are swing bowlers, which is what Trent Bridge suits and they're all very capable of blowing up and having a shocker. Someone with a bit of variety, or consistency could be good. Not saying it should definitely happen, but should be considered. Broad, Finn and Wood is a very one-paced similar attack.
		
Click to expand...

Unless we have a confirmed and tested swing bowler then Wood will be the one and he is more than capable of getting movement , as is both Broad and Finn - all three with Stokes and Ali are capable of getting wickets at Trent Bridge


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2015)

Trent Bridge is traditionally a swing venue and so it's important that the bowling attack, however that is made up, takes advantage of the conditions.


----------



## richart (Jul 31, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Trent Bridge is traditionally a swing venue and so it's important that the bowling attack, however that is made up, takes advantage of the conditions.
		
Click to expand...

 Doesn't swing as much now with the new stand.

Wood should come in for me if fully fit. We need his pace, and don't want a 80 mile an hour trundler. Brooks is a decent experienced bowler with something about him.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2015)

richart said:



			Doesn't swing as much now with the new stand.

Wood should come in for me if fully fit. We need his pace, and don't want a 80 mile an hour trundler. Brooks is a decent experienced bowler with something about him.
		
Click to expand...

But Brooks is untried in Tests, especially an Ashes series on the line. I think Woods is the best option. I still think it'll swing


----------



## Piece (Jul 31, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But Brooks is untried in Tests, especially an Ashes series on the line. I think *Woods* is the best option. I still think it'll swing
		
Click to expand...

Don't agree. Tiger is not the best option really, as he's American...but I can see why he would be a good 'swing' option!


----------



## richart (Jul 31, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But Brooks is untried in Tests, especially an Ashes series on the line. I think Woods is the best option. I still think it'll swing
		
Click to expand...

 Wood if fully fit, but if we have to bring in a new bowler I would go for an experienced bowler, and Brooks has been a major part of the Yorkshire team that won the Championship last year, and looks like winning it again this. He has a bit of pace, and don't think he would be fazed by the occasion.

Not the time for a young untried bowler in my opinion.

Bell up to three and Root at four worked well. Now who was it that suggested Root should bat four.


----------



## Karl102 (Aug 1, 2015)

Looks like it's Wood, Plunkett or Foottit.....

Think they might give Footit a go. Sad that Rushworth didn't make the squad. 
Also a bit of talks that they will produce the flattest of flat pitches to encourage the draw, clearly the wrong way to go given the Lords test....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2015)

England continue beating the Aussies in the first T20 :whoo:


----------



## Piece (Sep 15, 2015)

No surprise that Lyth and Ballance didn't make the squad for Pakistan. Been saying Hales should have been in the team this summer, but I'm a bit surprised that he has made it after a very poor ODI series. However, I think the boy has talent to make it. Wonder if Bairstow will replace Buttler behind the sticks?


----------



## Tongo (Sep 15, 2015)

Piece said:



			No surprise that Lyth and Ballance didn't make the squad for Pakistan. Been saying Hales should have been in the team this summer, but I'm a bit surprised that he has made it after a very poor ODI series. However, I think the boy has talent to make it. Wonder if Bairstow will replace Buttler behind the sticks?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about Hales. He was bang in form in the CC at the beginning of the summer but i dont think has done much in the 4-day game since.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 15, 2015)

Glad Lyth has been dropped. Looked very average.


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 16, 2015)

Was no option but to drop Lyth really. Same with Ballance. They've made decent selections, not sure who I'd pick to open with Cook. The options are Hales, Bell and Moeen. Personally, I don't really have a lot of confidence in any of them, but from a team balance point of view, I'd like to see Moeen given a go. He bats high up the order for Worcester and did very well with bat in hand against Australia. Why not give him a go, can't do any worse than Lyth. Just not convinced by Hales at all. 

Cook
Moeen
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson

The other option would be to drop Wood, move Buttler down to 8 and slot Taylor in at 5. I'd be pretty happy to see that team picked though.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 16, 2015)

Giving players one summer or one winter is not enough time - that's four openers now who have lasted either one or two series and dumped - Lyth , Robson and Compton all players good enough but need time to settle in - all got test tons but one struggle and they are gone. Hales isn't a test opener and right now has big technique issues. Shame for Ansari to get injured after getting a call up


----------



## Dan2501 (Sep 16, 2015)

What I don't understand with Hales is, he's not even been opening all the time for Notts. Scored most of his runs at 3. 

I do agree that blokes need to be given time, but in certain instances you can just tell they're out of their depth. Robson and Lyth looked completely out of their depth with clear technical issues that were open to be exploited, it's not what you want at the top of the order. They should have stuck with Compton or Carberry though for an extended spell.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2015)

Lyth was poor as opener and deserved to be dropped


----------

