# Gary Neville



## sawtooth (Feb 10, 2016)

Good luck to Gary Neville and Valencia tonight and I mean that. Of course nobody is expecting him to turn around a 7 nil deficit even against a second string Barca team but I  wish for a much improved performance and a positive response from his players.

I respected him (but didn't like him) as a player but have grown to like him as a pundit and I hope that he can start to turn things around at Valencia.

I know that Valencia supporters/journos are not happy but this clip is a bit out of order IMO. 

[video=youtube;E1IEwR3d-ms]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1IEwR3d-ms[/video]


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## Golfmmad (Feb 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Good luck to Gary Neville and Valencia tonight and I mean that. Of course nobody is expecting him to turn around a 7 nil deficit even against a second string Barca team but I  wish for a much improved performance and a positive response from his players.

I respected him (but didn't like him) as a player but have grown to like him as a pundit and I hope that he can start to turn things around at Valencia.

I know that Valencia supporters/journos are not happy but this clip is a bit out of order IMO. 

[video=youtube;E1IEwR3d-ms]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1IEwR3d-ms[/video]
		
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I agree,definitely out of order but I thought that he handled the grilling very well.
Gary is a winner through and through and I reckon he will in time, make a great Manager. I just hope he gets the chance to turn things round at Valencia.
IMHO he is future England Manager material.


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## paddyc (Feb 10, 2016)

Yeah hope he turns things around as he clearly has great football knowledge and is an asset to England and Woy, but taking on such a massive club like Valencia as your first mangerial job is a tall order and I cant see him keeping it for much longer.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 10, 2016)

1-0 to Valencia ATM.


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## Grogger (Feb 10, 2016)

I'm revelling in his massive failure


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## sawtooth (Feb 10, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			1-0 to Valencia ATM.
		
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Finished 1-1 which is still a credible result and will help keep the wolves from the door until the next one.

A must win game for him this weekend hopefully the team can kick on a bit now.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 10, 2016)

I don't get the hype around Neville, he's done nothing of note as a coach to warrant that job.

The sky love in with him is embarrassing.

I can't wait for him to be England manager.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't get the hype around Neville, he's done nothing of note as a coach to warrant that job.

The sky love in with him is embarrassing.

I can't wait for him to be England manager.
		
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Yep sums it up for me :thup:


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## richart (Feb 10, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I don't get the hype around Neville, he's done nothing of note as a coach to warrant that job.

The sky love in with him is embarrassing.

I can't wait for him to be England manager.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep sums it up for me :thup:
		
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Now who did he used to play for.:mmm:


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## sawtooth (Feb 10, 2016)

He hasn't kicked a ball for United for years, time to let it go guys.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			The sky love in with him is embarrassing.

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Obviously he's no Carra


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## Stuart_C (Feb 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			He hasn't kicked a ball for United for years, time to let it go guys.

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Who he's played for has nothing to do with it.

He's done  a little bit of coaching for England, he's hardly got the experience needed  for coaching in probably  the best league in Europe.

He talks a good game as a pundit though.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 11, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Obviously he's no Carra 

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Correct.

I don't remember any love in with Carra on sky, he gets the same coverage as most of the other pundits.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Correct.

I don't remember any love in with Carra on sky, he gets the same coverage as most of the other pundits.
		
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Carra and Neville had their own show with equal attention. I think most fans preferred Neville. He seemed the most impartial of all the pundits, which consider his actions in a Utd shirt was refreshing. 

He got the Valencia job due to connections. but to be fair, as a manager what did Kenny or souness do to warrant being getting their first manager jobs at pool? Some players appear to have it and are given a chance. Personally think it was a poison chalice as Valencia have been poor. Respect to him for at least trying.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Carra and Neville had their own show with equal attention. I think most fans preferred Neville. He seemed the most impartial of all the pundits, which consider his actions in a Utd shirt was refreshing. 

He got the Valencia job due to connections. but to be fair, as a manager what did Kenny or souness do to warrant being getting their first manager jobs at pool? Some players appear to have it and are given a chance. Personally think it was a poison chalice as Valencia have been poor. Respect to him for at least trying.
		
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Well Souness had already managed at Rangers winning titles and Kenny was helped by Paisley and an established boot room 

As for who preffered who in regards Carra and Neville - would suggest it's pretty hard to judge either way


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## Qwerty (Feb 11, 2016)

I hope he gets sacked tbh, I've never liked him.  Overrated as a player also, Fowler used to turn him inside out everytime we played Liverpool without fail. 

Only in football could someone walk into a role of which they've no previous experience and earn Â£500k + pa.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Carra and Neville had their own show with equal attention. I think most fans preferred Neville. He seemed the most impartial of all the pundits, which consider his actions in a Utd shirt was refreshing. 

He got the Valencia job due to connections. but to be fair, as a manager what did Kenny or souness do to warrant being getting their first manager jobs at pool? Some players appear to have it and are given a chance. Personally think it was a poison chalice as Valencia have been poor. *Respect to him for at least trying.*

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I am, I just don't get the hype that he's a going to be a top coach or manager based on the fact he's done a little bit of coaching with England.

You say you think it was a poison chalice, surely that would be the same for any coach that would've took the job.

Can we not turn this into another Liverpool thread aswell


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## Stuart_C (Feb 11, 2016)

Qwerty said:



			I hope he gets sacked tbh, I've never liked him.  Overrated as a player also, Fowler used to turn him inside out everytime we played Liverpool without fail. 

Only in football could someone walk into a role of which they've no previous experience and earn Â£500k + pa.
		
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Don't  sit on the fence qwerty la, tell us what you really think  :rofl:


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I am, I just don't get the hype that he's a going to be a top coach or manager based on the fact he's done a little bit of coaching with England.

You say you think it was a poison chalice, surely that would be the same for any coach that would've took the job.

Can we not turn this into another Liverpool thread aswell 

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i agree there's not much to suggest he's gonna be a top coach re lack of management coach experience, but apparently he's well respected in the game, and everyone deserves a chance. It's all well and good saying start at the bottom. But these days the players have earned so much, that they don't really manage out of necessity. Hence them going for the easy job in tv. 

Personally I think he's much better sky than the other analysts. If he ends up going back to sky, I wouldn't mind at all. The digs him and cara share are quality.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well Souness had already managed at Rangers winning titles and Kenny was helped by Paisley and an established boot room 

As for who preffered who in regards Carra and Neville - would suggest it's pretty hard to judge either way
		
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Hold my hands up re souness. Point kinda remains though as was player manager at rangers.

As to popularity. From the people I know. Neville was always the most popular. Also recognised as the best pundit for sky two years running. 

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ise-from-players-managers-and-tv-award-judges


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 11, 2016)

Tried to run before he could walk. Bit off more than he could chew. etc etc

He'll be back on sky for next season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Hold my hands up re souness. Point kinda remains though as was player manager at rangers.

As to popularity. From the people I know. Neville was always the most popular. Also recognised as the best pundit for sky two years running. 

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ise-from-players-managers-and-tv-award-judges

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And the point is no one would be declaring them future national managers etc when they got appointed which is what Stu was saying - Both Souness and Kenny were risks when appointed and both worked out very well for their respected clubs 

Neville is a good pundit but talking and walking is a little bit different - I think he could be a decent manager as do I think Carra can be as they both know the game very well and think they can transfer that to the pitch but need to start a bit lower IMO . Carra is doing a lot of coaching with youth football and think if he gets an offer from a lower league club then I think he would take it and then build up


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## Tongo (Feb 11, 2016)

Qwerty said:



			I hope he gets sacked tbh, I've never liked him.  Overrated as a player also, Fowler used to turn him inside out everytime we played Liverpool without fail. 

Only in football could someone walk into a role of which they've no previous experience and earn Â£500k + pa.
		
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Totally agree. Smug, irksome individual who has been made to look a right fool. Mind you, if he was so arrogant to take the job in the first place...


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## Kellfire (Feb 11, 2016)

He doesn't look foolish to anyone who saw the poisoned chalice he was handed. Gives him a chance to get a feel for management in a no-lose situation because the team were crap to begin with.

And he's arguably the best right back to ever play in the top flight in England and was at his peak long after Fowler was at his. It's like saying John Terry was never any good because Henry skinned him in 2001.


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## TheDiablo (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And the point is no one would be declaring them future national managers etc when they got appointed which is what Stu was saying - Both Souness and Kenny were risks when appointed and both worked out very well for their respected clubs 

Neville is a good pundit but talking and walking is a little bit different - I think he could be a decent manager as do I think Carra can be as they both know the game very well and think they can transfer that to the pitch but need to start a bit lower IMO . *Carra is doing a lot of coaching with youth football and think if he gets an offer from a lower league club then I think he would take it and then build up*

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Very, very much doubt that! 

Big IF, but IF he does end up in management, it will be because he was a number 2 at Liverpool, took over the reigns for a few games, had some success and got the bug. 

Personally, I think he is quite content at being a famous pundit and continuing the good work he does through his foundations. And who can blame him when you see the cut-throat world of management these days.

As for Neville, probably bit off more than he could chew. Doesn't speak the language, doesn't know the league, took on a pile of crap. IMO he will still be a top coach/manager/pundit/club owner/hotel owner/whatever he chooses to be within the English game, given time and the right opportunity.


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## Berger (Feb 11, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			He doesn't look foolish to anyone who saw the poisoned chalice he was handed. Gives him a chance to get a feel for management in a no-lose situation because the team were crap to begin with.

And he's arguably the best right back to ever play in the top flight in England and was at his peak long after Fowler was at his. It's like saying John Terry was never any good because Henry skinned him in 2001.
		
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Valencia finished 4th last season and were 5 points off 4th place this season when Neville took over. 9 games later and 0 league wins they're now 4 points off relegation. They weren't great before he came in but they were far from crap.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

TheDiablo said:



			Very, very much doubt that! 

Big IF, but IF he does end up in management, it will be because he was a number 2 at Liverpool, took over the reigns for a few games, had some success and got the bug. 

Personally, I think he is quite content at being a famous pundit and continuing the good work he does through his foundations. And who can blame him when you see the cut-throat world of management these days.

As for Neville, probably bit off more than he could chew. Doesn't speak the language, doesn't know the league, took on a pile of crap. IMO he will still be a top coach/manager/pundit/club owner/hotel owner/whatever he chooses to be within the English game, given time and the right opportunity.
		
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Carra wants to manage - there is no doubt about that - seen enough interviews from him and in his book and other peoples books about him that he wants to manage one day - he won't rush into it but he doesn't want to sit in a studio every day for the rest of his life in football


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## NWJocko (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Carra wants to manage - there is no doubt about that - seen enough interviews from him and in his book and other peoples books about him that he wants to manage one day - he won't rush into it but he doesn't want to sit in a studio every day for the rest of his life in football
		
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I take it you didn't watch the Sky documentary on him where he was pretty adamant he didn't want to get into management then!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			I take it you didn't watch the Sky documentary on him where he was pretty adamant he didn't want to get into management then! 

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Nope but did watch the program on LFC Tv when he was talking about still coaching in the background to help him for when he thinks he is ready to get into management. It's even in his auto bio and both of Gerrards and Rafas book. Obviously could and maybe has changed his mind but I would be amazed if he didn't give it a go.

But if he has changed his mind ( and readin reports it looks like you are spot on ) then two things worry me - 1. That someone who spent his whole football career studying the game in prep for a coaching/managing role has been put of by the demands of modern management and the short life span and 2. That punditry has become a safe haven for people who IMO could make big changes in the game coaching


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## NWJocko (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nope but did watch the program on LFC Tv when he was talking about still coaching in the background to help him for when he thinks he is ready to get into management. It's even in his auto bio and both of Gerrards and Rafas book. Obviously could and maybe has changed his mind but I would be amazed if he didn't give it a go.

But if he has changed his mind ( and readin reports it looks like you are spot on ) then two things worry me - 1. That someone who spent his whole football career studying the game in prep for a coaching/managing role has been put of by the demands of modern management and the short life span and 2. That punditry has become a safe haven for people who IMO could make big changes in the game coaching
		
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I agree it's a shame, especially looking at the number of top players across BBC/BT and Sky that are now pundits with no apparent interest in coaching who would probably have a lot to offer (not necessarily top line management even but coaching at some level).

It's why I'd quite like Neville to succeed really. Surprised he was given that level of job first off but have to start somewhere I guess, fair play to him for realising there's a world beyond the Premier League aswell :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

NWJocko said:



			I agree it's a shame, especially looking at the number of top players across BBC/BT and Sky that are now pundits with no apparent interest in coaching who would probably have a lot to offer (not necessarily top line management even but coaching at some level).

It's why I'd quite like Neville to succeed really. Surprised he was given that level of job first off but have to start somewhere I guess, fair play to him for realising there's a world beyond the Premier League aswell :thup:
		
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Yep agree

Think if the current trend keeps going on then in about 10/15 years time there could be a problem with the lack of managers available. 

It is strange though as abroad players seem to have no issues diving straight in to management and especially in Italy and Spain have no problems giving jobs to recently retired players.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2016)

I admire Neville for taking the job. It hasn't worked out and I fear he's not going to be in post much longer but I think he'll bounce back whether that's in a TV role, with that experience to fall back on when discussing managers, or in another managerial role. I think he'll possible get a PL job at some point and think he'll be a success. Plenty of managers don't start well in their first job


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2016)

Neville probably took a pay cut as well. Henry reportedly earns Â£4M a year at Sky! You can see why some aren't interested in management.


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## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2016)

The reasons I've touted Neville as a future England Manager are because of how well he came across as a pundit on Sky and more importantly, after watching the recent documentary on Salford Football Club. He was definitely the driving force behind the clubs recent success.

The way in which he dealt with the Spanish media was class and in no way does he come across as "Arrogant", just confident in his own ability, and certainly his own man. All attributes that are needed in today's game with all the pressures that go with the job.

After reading some of the comments above re. whether Carragher should become a Manager and there's Neville willing to stand by his sword - it's a case of you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I still say he will make a great Manager.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Neville probably took a pay cut as well. Henry reportedly earns Â£4M a year at Sky! You can see why some aren't interested in management.
		
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Why would anyone want the hassle of management,ifthey can earn that kind of money sat in a studio with no pressure?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			The reasons I've touted Neville as a future England Manager are because of how well he came across as a pundit on Sky and more importantly, after watching the recent documentary on Salford Football Club. He was definitely the driving force behind the clubs recent success.

The way in which he dealt with the Spanish media was class and in no way does he come across as "Arrogant", just confident in his own ability, and certainly his own man. All attributes that are needed in today's game with all the pressures that go with the job.

After reading some of the comments above re. whether Carragher should become a Manager and there's Neville willing to stand by his sword - it's a case of you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I still say he will make a great Manager.
		
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I reckon he'll make a good manager too. Lots struggle early on


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			The reasons I've touted Neville as a future England Manager are because of how well he came across as a pundit on Sky and more importantly, after watching the recent documentary on Salford Football Club. He was definitely the driving force behind the clubs recent success.

The way in which he dealt with the Spanish media was class and in no way does he come across as "Arrogant", just confident in his own ability, and certainly his own man. All attributes that are needed in today's game with all the pressures that go with the job.

After reading some of the comments above re. whether Carragher should become a Manager and there's Neville willing to stand by his sword - it's a case of you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I still say he will make a great Manager.
		
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Would certainly wonder how long it would take for him to get another chance when he leaves Valencia - he certainly is confident in his own beliefs and does explain the tactics well in the studio - but it's getting that across to the players which is the real acid test - there have been some top quality players that looked destined to be top managers but just bombed.


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## Tongo (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would certainly wonder how long it would take for him to get another chance when he leaves Valencia - he certainly is confident in his own beliefs and does explain the tactics well in the studio - but it's getting that across to the players which is the real acid test - there have been some top quality players that looked destined to be top managers but just bombed.
		
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Especially when managing abroad. What works in the Premier League doesnt necessarily work elsewhere. 

(And vice versa as i'm sure will soon be pointed out) 

Moyes allegedly going after Danny Ings whilst at Real Sociedad still amuses me on that score.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Especially when managing abroad. What works in the Premier League doesnt necessarily work elsewhere. 

(And vice versa as i'm sure will soon be pointed out) 

Moyes allegedly going after Danny Ings whilst at Real Sociedad still amuses me on that score.
		
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The amount of managers from him that have done well abroad in the top leagues is a very small list - 

Bobby Robson ? After that its a struggle


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## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would certainly wonder how long it would take for him to get another chance when he leaves Valencia - he certainly is confident in his own beliefs and does explain the tactics well in the studio - but it's getting that across to the players which is the real acid test - there have been some top quality players that looked destined to be top managers but just bombed.
		
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Yes, I certainly think time will tell but Neville is different - a one off.  He's worked under the best manager ever during his career and very popular with all the players. Whilst we will never know fully what goes on in the changing rooms his man management skills are obvious.
Let's also not forget the respect he should have after being an integral part of the success of Manchester United.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Yes, I certainly think time will tell but Neville is different - a one off.  He's worked under the best manager ever during his career and very popular with all the players. Whilst we will never know fully what goes on in the changing rooms his man management skills are obvious.
Let's also not forget the respect he should have after being an integral part of the success of Manchester United.
		
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But what makes him different to others ?

Plenty of players have played under the great managers and still didnt work out. A one off based on what though ?


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## sawtooth (Feb 11, 2016)

Pin-seeker said:



			Why would anyone want the hassle of management,ifthey can earn that kind of money sat in a studio with no pressure?
		
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Says a lot about Neville doesn't it? 

He worked under Fergie (closer than most) for 20 years so he should turn out quite decent you would think.


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## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But what makes him different to others ?

Plenty of players have played under the great managers and still didnt work out. A one off based on what though ?
		
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What makes him different -  he is a winner - single minded determination - knows his own mind - is articulate, what more do you want?

I'll say again - played under THE best manager ever - this has to make a difference.

:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Says a lot about Neville doesn't it? 

He worked under Fergie (closer than most) for 20 years so he should turn out quite decent you would think.
		
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Phil Neal worked under some of the best managers the game has seen and was poor as a manager - the list is long 

Robson is another everyone expected to be decent 

Neville could just as easily be like Bobby Robson 

It's seems it's more likely for ex players to struggle as oppose to succeed


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			What makes him different -  he is a winner - single minded determination - knows his own mind - is articulate, what more do you want?

I'll say again - played under THE best manager ever - this has to make a difference.

:thup:
		
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Sorry but there has been better players who have failed and everything you say stands him out can be seen in plenty players and managers 

And players who have played under the likes of Shanks and Bob Paisley ( who IMO is the best ever ) and failed - Phil Neal - 8 titles , 4 European Cups - best right back I have ever seen - awful as a manager.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			What makes him different -  he is a winner - single minded determination - knows his own mind - is articulate, what more do you want?

I'll say again - played under THE best manager ever - this has to make a difference.

:thup:
		
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Totally. I think Valencia may not have been an ideal starting role but at least you can't say he shied away from a challenge. I still reckon if and when he comes back to England, he'll end up getting a PL role somewhere


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## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but there has been better players who have failed and everything you say stands him out can be seen in plenty players and managers 

And players who have played under the likes of Shanks and Bob Paisley ( who IMO is the best ever ) and failed - Phil Neal - 8 titles , 4 European Cups - best right back I have ever seen - awful as a manager.
		
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I'm not saying anything about his playing ability, just him as a person. Just because Phil Neal failed doesn't follow that Gary Neville will too.

Bobby Charlton, the great that he was, failed as a Manager - different person, plenty of respect but not the same personality.

Gary Neville is a born winner - as I say, time will tell.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			I'm not saying anything about his playing ability, just him as a person. Just because Phil Neal failed doesn't follow that Gary Neville will too.

Bobby Charlton, the great that he was, failed as a Manager - different person, plenty of respect but not the same personality.

Gary Neville is a born winner - as I say, time will tell.
		
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Which is exactly the point - the others were born winners yet failed at management , its impossible to say who will succeed or not but the chances of success for everyone are very slim. I cant see any Prem Clubs giving him a go right now or until he proves himself elsewhere


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2016)

Even if Neville has to go to the championship to start in England I reckon he'll have what it takes to get that team challenging for promotion/play offs and gain the necessary kudos to get a PL berth. 

Some interesting names on this list, and not all of them proven at the time of their appointment so why shouldn't Neville get a PL club

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Premier_League_managers


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## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which is exactly the point - the others were born winners yet failed at management , its impossible to say who will succeed or not but the chances of success for everyone are very slim. I cant see any Prem Clubs giving him a go right now or until he proves himself elsewhere
		
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Who are these others you talk of? I remember Phil Neal as a player, but not as a winner, a rather dour character from what I remember, not in Neville's class.

If you read my post properly I did use the word "Future" manager. So I'm not expecting any Premiership club to come in for him any time soon.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Who are these others you talk of? I remember Phil Neal as a player, but not as a winner, a rather dour character from what I remember, not in Neville's class.

If you read my post properly I did use the word "Future" manager. So I'm not expecting any Premiership club to come in for him any time soon.
		
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Take your pick from any player who has played at the highest level yet not done the business as a manager.

Robson 
Adams
Ince
Ardiles
Barnes
Souness
Zola
Even Shearer had a go - Maradona, Davids Pearce, Keane, Voller , Mattheus 


The list is longer for players who just failed to make the grade


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## ger147 (Feb 11, 2016)

I think Neville will be a very successful manager in the EPL in time. And before anyone asks me to prove why my opinion is correct, it's just my opinion and based on nothing other than gut feel, but it's still what I think.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2016)

ger147 said:



			I think Neville will be a very successful manager in the EPL in time. And before anyone asks me to prove why my opinion is correct, it's just my opinion and based on nothing other than gut feel, but it's still what I think.
		
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I agree with you 100%. I don't see a world of difference between Neville and Giggs who is obviously being groomed for a top PL job. The only difference is Neville has had the faith to follow his convictions and get out and try. Take away the language issues and the different style of play and get Neville back to the PL and I think you'll find him learn quickly and successfully


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## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Take your pick from any player who has played at the highest level yet not done the business as a manager.

Robson 
Adams
Ince
Ardiles
Barnes
Souness
Zola
Even Shearer had a go - Maradona, Davids Pearce, Keane, Voller , Mattheus 


The list is longer for players who just failed to make the grade
		
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Here's my list of top players that made great managers:

Ferguson
B. Robson
Venables
Beckenbauer
Clough
Capello
Klinsmann


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Here's my list of top players that made great managers:

Ferguson
B. Robson
Venables
Beckenbauer
Clough
Capello
Klinsmann
		
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Can't disagree with the but will add 

Dalglish
Cruyff
Ancelotti
Pep


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Here's my list of top players that made great managers:

Ferguson
B. Robson
Venables
Beckenbauer
Clough
Capello
Klinsmann
		
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A certain Guardiola wasn't too shabby as a player https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pep_Guardiola#Player_2 and seems to be doing OK as a manager too


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## Golfmmad (Feb 11, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A certain Guardiola wasn't too shabby as a player https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pep_Guardiola#Player_2 and seems to be doing OK as a manager too
		
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I didn't mention Guardiola as I wasn't sure if he was a player - but what a manager though!

:thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 11, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Here's my list of top players that made great managers:

Ferguson
B. Robson
Venables
Beckenbauer
Clough
Capello
Klinsmann
		
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Depends what you mean by top player.

It would be stretching it to call Bobby Robson or Terry Venables as top players and Cloughie's playing career was cut short by injury.

I doubt that even Fergie himself would suggest that he had been a top player.

They were all decent but not top players.


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## Grogger (Feb 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Depends what you mean by top player.

It would be stretching it to call Bobby Robson or Terry Venables as top players and Cloughie's playing career was cut short by injury.

I doubt that even Fergie himself would suggest that he had been a top player.

They were all decent but not top players.
		
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I'd disagree slightly with you. Clough was a top player! 251 goals in 270+ appearances isn't to shabby. Still holds the record for goals to games ratio of any player in England and Scotland.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 11, 2016)

Grogger said:



			I'd disagree slightly with you. Clough was a top player! 251 goals in 270+ appearances isn't to shabby. Still holds the record for goals to games ratio of any player in England and Scotland.
		
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Yes but nearly all his goals were in the Second Division (i.e. Championship). He personally felt that his injury prevented him from proving himself at the top level.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 12, 2016)

I do find it a bit strange that people are having a go at Neville for not being up to the job.  When if you look, hardly any managers stay at a top club for much time nowadays.  I expect Neville could have done just as good a job at United as Van Gaal is doing, just as good a job at Chelsea as Mourinho did this season or Hiddink is doing, just as good a job as Klopp is doing at Liverpool.  All vastly experienced managers who have been no better than Neville would have been.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 12, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Here's my list of top players that made great managers:

Ferguson
B. Robson
Venables
Beckenbauer
Clough
Capello
Klinsmann
		
Click to expand...

Add to that:

Pep
Cruyff
Ancelotti
Dalglish
Clough
Keegan
Heynckes
Laudrup
Koeman
Rijkaard
Simeone


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Add to that:

Pep
Cruyff
Ancelotti
Dalglish
Clough
Keegan
Heynckes
Laudrup
Koeman
Rijkaard
Simeone
		
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Keegan - great manager ? That would be an interesting debate


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Keegan - great manager ? That would be an interesting debate
		
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As would be a debate on his greatness as a player.

A very good player who absolutely got the maximum out of his talents but not comparable with, amongst others, Dalglish.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Keegan - great manager ? That would be an interesting debate
		
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If Keegan was a great manager Souness was a legendary one!


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## Dan2501 (Feb 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Keegan - great manager ? That would be an interesting debate
		
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Maybe not great, but certainly a very good manager. Took Newcastle from the depths of Division 2 where they almost got relegated under Ardilles, to Division 2 Champions and then in their first season back in Division 1 were predicted to finished bottom but Keegan took them to the top and made Newcastle a top side. They bottled their lead in 95-96 when they should have won the league, but he was a massive success at Newcastle. Also the first manager to win the First Division title with 2 different clubs - Newcastle and Manchester City.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			As would be a debate on his greatness as a player.

A very good player who absolutely got the maximum out of his talents but not comparable with, amongst others, Dalglish.
		
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Keegan ? He proved himself on the pitch both home and abroad - winning titles and EC and a couple of European Footballer of the Year awards - then instrumental for Soton and then Newcadtle - playing career littered with success


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Keegan ? He proved himself on the pitch both home and abroad - winning titles and EC and a couple of European Footballer of the Year awards - then instrumental for Soton and then Newcadtle - playing career littered with success
		
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Not saying he wasn't a very fine player. (See my original post) 

But a great player? Sorry, but having seen him play on many occasions, not in my opinion.

Still, as I suggested, a subject for debate and opinions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Maybe not great, but certainly a very good manager. Took Newcastle from the depths of Division 2 where they almost got relegated under Ardilles, to Division 2 Champions and then in their first season back in Division 1 were predicted to finished bottom but Keegan took them to the top and made Newcastle a top side. They bottled their lead in 95-96 when they should have won the league, but he was a massive success at Newcastle. Also the first manager to win the First Division title with 2 different clubs - Newcastle and Manchester City.
		
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That for me IMO makes him a decent manager who did well in the lower leagues but was just short when it came to the big prize


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Not saying he wasn't a very fine player. (See my original post) 

But a great player? Sorry, but having seen him play on many occasions, not in my opinion.

Still, as I suggested, a subject for debate and opinions.
		
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I suppose it's all about boundaries of "great" 

Wouldn't have him in the top echelon of players - messi etc and yeah agree not as good as Kenny for us but there is always that spell in Germany where it seemed he stepped up another level


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## Tongo (Feb 12, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Keegan - great manager ? That would be an interesting debate
		
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Keegan may not have been a great manager but i have total respect for him for when he admitted that he wasnt up to the England job.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 12, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Keegan may not have been a great manager but i have total respect for him for when he admitted that he wasnt up to the England job.
		
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Sadly, I see him as two faced having already told Fulham fans he wasn't taking the job and then walking out a few days later. As a player I enjoyed watching him but I wouldn't class his as a "great"


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Keegan may not have been a great manager but i have total respect for him for when he admitted that he wasnt up to the England job.
		
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Yeah fair play to him for that 

You also couldn't fault his philosophy when manager - he was all about entertaining and attacking - niave at times but good to watch


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## Tongo (Feb 12, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sadly, *I see him as two faced having already told Fulham fans he wasn't taking the job and then walking out a few days later*. As a player I enjoyed watching him but I wouldn't class his as a "great"
		
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Expecting the football world to demonstrate morality really is a futile exercise.


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## Golfmmad (Feb 12, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Depends what you mean by top player.

It would be stretching it to call Bobby Robson or Terry Venables as top players and Cloughie's playing career was cut short by injury.

I doubt that even Fergie himself would suggest that he had been a top player.

They were all decent but not top players.
		
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On the contrary, that's exactly the reason why I didn't say great players. With the exception of Franz Beckenbauer and Jurgen Klinsmann who were indeed great players.

Have you forgotten that Robson, Clough and Venables all represented England - only top players get that opportunity.
I take your point though on Sir Alex Ferguson, but he certainly made up for it in his greatness as the best manager ever.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 12, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Expecting the football world to demonstrate morality really is a futile exercise.
		
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I totally agree and I guess had it been any other club I wouldn't have been bothered in the slightest. Always hurts whenever a manager, player or owner of your own team says one thing and then goes and does something opposite


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 12, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Have you forgotten that Robson, Clough and Venables all represented England - only top players get that opportunity.
I take your point though on Sir Alex Ferguson, but he certainly made up for it in his greatness as the best manager ever.
		
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Carlton Palmer, Michael Ricketts & Geoff Thomas all played for England.

You're not telling me that they were top players.

The three that you mention were, as I acknowledged, decent players but not, in my opinion and having seen them play, top players.


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## Tongo (Feb 13, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Carlton Palmer, Michael Ricketts & Geoff Thomas all played for England.

You're not telling me that they were top players.

The three that you mention were, as I acknowledged, decent players but not, in my opinion and having seen them play, top players.
		
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And Phil Neville got more caps for England than Glenn Hoddle. That tells you plenty about English football.


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## Tongo (Feb 13, 2016)

Just found out that Phil Neville is Gary Neville's assistant at Valencia! Honestly, the nepotism is embarrassing.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 13, 2016)

Tongo said:



			And Phil Neville got more caps for England than Glenn Hoddle. That tells you plenty about English football.
		
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Funny thing with Hoddle is that (in general) the further North you travelled the less he was/is held in high regard.

Many thought of him as a bit of a luxury since if he was "pressed" he tended to drop deeper until he ultimately became ineffective.

Allowed space he was a terrific passer of the ball and scored the occasional great goal.

Mind you as a full-back I think you would have to admit that even Phil Neville was better!

P>S> I think Phil was already at Valencia before Gary's arrival.


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## Tongo (Feb 13, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Funny thing with Hoddle is that (in general) the further North you travelled the less he was/is held in high regard.

Many thought of him as a bit of a luxury since if he was "pressed" he tended to drop deeper until he ultimately became ineffective.

Allowed space he was a terrific passer of the ball and scored the occasional great goal.

Mind you as a full-back I think you would have to admit that even Phil Neville was better!

*P>S> I think Phil was already at Valencia before Gary's arrival*.
		
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True, but Valencia were owned by the same guy who bought into Salford when he was appointed. So its all a bit embarrassing and you feel for the Valencia fans.


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## sawtooth (Feb 14, 2016)

Well done Gary Neville last night, not the most convincing win against a side lower than them in the table, but a win is a win.

Somebody made a comment on BBC last night about Neville and Fergie,  how the latter was possibly one game away from being sacked all those years ago. Then look what happened.


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## Golfmmad (Feb 14, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			Well done Gary Neville last night, not the most convincing win against a side lower than them in the table, but a win is a win.

Somebody made a comment on BBC last night about Neville and Fergie,  how the latter was possibly one game away from being sacked all those years ago. Then look what happened.
		
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Yes, it's a well done Gary from me too!

I think it's a bit of a myth about Ferguson being one game away from being sacked.

Martin Edwards, the then Chairman, and Bobby Charlton believed in Ferguson and could see what he was trying to do. As in getting rid of dead wood, the drinking culture and, the most important, developing the youth and providing a structure. Not forgetting gathering together a network of scouts, which were the best in the business at the time.

They could see Fergies vision, if plenty of others could not!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2016)

Pleased to see Neville get that win. I think he'll make a good manager and hopefully the team will play with more confidence now and he can get them climbing the table. I suppose it's too late for a charge towards a Europa spot


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## Golfmmad (Feb 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pleased to see Neville get that win. I think he'll make a good manager and hopefully the team will play with more confidence now and he can get them climbing the table. I suppose it's too late for a charge towards a Europa spot
		
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Ever the optimist eh Homer? 

Nice to see the team win and hopefully they will move on up!

:thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2016)

Golfmmad said:



			Ever the optimist eh Homer? 

Nice to see the team win and hopefully they will move on up!

:thup:
		
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I don't think they will get anywhere near Europa league but I guess you have to have targets. I think 8th or 9th is the best they'll achieve


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## Golfmmad (Feb 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't think they will get anywhere near Europa league but I guess you have to have targets. I think 8th or 9th is the best they'll achieve
		
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Now you're a realist! 

:thup:


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## bernix (Feb 15, 2016)

hope he will be sacked on Friday :whoo:


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## Grogger (Feb 15, 2016)

I don't get this Gary Neville love in. The blokes a rat. 

Obviously I want English managers to succeed but not this clown.


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## sawtooth (Feb 16, 2016)

Grogger said:



			I don't get this Gary Neville love in. The blokes a rat. 

Obviously I want English managers to succeed but not this clown.
		
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I used to think like that when he was a player, he was a despicable little scroat with the Utd shirt on.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 16, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I used to think like that when he was a player, he was a despicable little scroat with the Utd shirt on.
		
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I disagree. A player who was passionate for his team, including England and an under rated player imo


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## Golfmmad (Feb 16, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree. A player who was passionate for his team, including England and an under rated player imo
		
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Exactly Homer, I can't understand the hatred for Gary Neville, or any other player for that matter. Especially someone who eats lives and breathes football and is trying to do good for the game.


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## sawtooth (Feb 21, 2016)

3 wins on the bounce now for Neville's Valencia.

He was a good defender in his time and he talked a good defensive game as a pundit so you would expect his teams not to give away too many goals. Conceded 2 in last 3 games so it does look like he is making some steady progress.


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## Golfmmad (Feb 21, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			3 wins on the bounce now for Neville's Valencia.

He was a good defender in his time and he talked a good defensive game as a pundit so you would expect his teams not to give away too many goals. Conceded 2 in last 3 games so it does look like he is making some steady progress.
		
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I know it's still early days but it seems he's getting them to play - his way!

Hope it continues.

:thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 22, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			3 wins on the bounce now for Neville's Valencia.

He was a good defender in his time and he talked a good defensive game as a pundit so you would expect his teams not to give away too many goals. Conceded 2 in last 3 games so it does look like he is making some steady progress.
		
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Was always going to be tough with the language, style, methods and the team he inherited so glad to see some progress at last and I hope he continues to do well


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## Dan2501 (Feb 22, 2016)

Also inherited rudimentary coaching methods. None of the Coaches used a tablet or any technology as part of their coaching, was all pen and paper. One of the first things Neville did was buy a load of iPads and install high-angle cameras to film their training. This then allowed them to analyse their training in a visual manner rather than having to try and overcome the language barrier. Neville has done a superb job trying to turn them round, results were always going to come they weren't playing bad football, and I'm delighted to see the hard work paying off with a few good results recently. Hope it continues.


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## Golfmmad (Feb 22, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			Also inherited rudimentary coaching methods. None of the Coaches used a tablet or any technology as part of their coaching, was all pen and paper. One of the first things Neville did was buy a load of iPads and install high-angle cameras to film their training. This then allowed them to analyse their training in a visual manner rather than having to try and overcome the language barrier. Neville has done a superb job trying to turn them round, results were always going to come they weren't playing bad football, and I'm delighted to see the hard work paying off with a few good results recently. Hope it continues.
		
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Great post, well said Dan!

:thup:


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## sawtooth (Feb 25, 2016)

I realise Neville isn't everyone's cup of tea but another convincing win tonight.

This competition is getting a bit more interesting.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			I realise Neville isn't everyone's cup of tea but another convincing win tonight.

This competition is getting a bit more interesting.
		
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Agreed although I think Rapid were one of the poorest sides left in the draw. Still you can only beat what's in front of you and it will do much for their confidence. I hope Neville gets money to spend and can start to mound his own side for next season


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## sawtooth (Feb 26, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Agreed although I think Rapid were one of the poorest sides left in the draw. Still you can only beat what's in front of you and it will do much for their confidence. I hope Neville gets money to spend and can start to mound his own side for next season
		
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True. Must tougher task ahead with Bilbao in the next round. If he can pull it off and Man U manage to beat Liverpool then who knows , he might face his old team. 

Now that would be fascinating.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			True. Must tougher task ahead with Bilbao in the next round. If he can pull it off and Man U manage to beat Liverpool then who knows , he might face his old team. 

Now that would be fascinating.
		
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Only three league places (and five points between them) so it's not beyond the realms of possibility Valencia can pull it off over two legs. Whether United beat Liverpool is perhaps the bigger qurestion


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2016)

Been sacked


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## anotherdouble (Mar 30, 2016)

Has he still got a job with sky or did he fully leave. I would think they would offer him his job back


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 30, 2016)

anotherdouble said:



			Has he still got a job with sky or did he fully leave. I would think they would offer him his job back
		
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Hopefully - get a few pearlers like this 




Believe it was 7 nil to Barce when he took Valencia there


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## anotherdouble (Mar 30, 2016)

At least he kept it to I think 3-1 in the 2nd leg


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 30, 2016)

This wasn't a bad one 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kv9F8Y57GCM

I'd like to see him back on MNF.


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