# Possible Rule Changes



## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2017)

Bit of a mixed bag as far as I can see - though mainly positive!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/39120332


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## Wabinez (Mar 1, 2017)

*Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

Looks like the rules are changing from 2019, to make the game more modern.

http://www.randa.org/RulesModernisation

Can now drop from any height, reduced search time, putt with flag stick in, ground your club in 'penalty' area...

Go on...thoughts?

Edit - One more link...http://www.randa.org/News/2017/03/Preview-of-proposed-new-Rules-of-Golf-unveiled-by-RandA-and-USGA


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## IanM (Mar 1, 2017)

I agree.... mainly positive.  Not sure  about an 80cm drop... surely a club length is easier

Max score concept is interesting.................


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## MendieGK (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Wabinez said:



			Looks like the rules are changing from 2019, to make the game more modern.

http://www.randa.org/RulesModernisation

Can now drop from any height, reduced search time, putt with flag stick in, ground your club in 'penalty' area...

Go on...thoughts?

Edit - One more link...http://www.randa.org/News/2017/03/Preview-of-proposed-new-Rules-of-Golf-unveiled-by-RandA-and-USGA

Click to expand...

they all make sense to me except the 3min search rule. Personally don't think thats long enough.


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



MendieGK said:



			they all make sense to me except the 3min search rule. Personally don't think thats long enough.
		
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It's obviously aimed at slow play, in part.

5 minutes is actually a long time when on the clock, if you haven't walked up to the immediate area and found it in 3 minutes it's unlikely you could find it with another 2 minutes available.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

Brilliant. Great changes, why wait until 2019? Not sure I see any that I disagree with.


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## Fish (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

Just reading through them I think a lot of them are good for the game, removing loose impediments in a bunker, leaves, acorns etc and dropping from any height so it doesn't plug is all positive IMO.

2 shot penalty coming out of the bunker also could be a good option if you were nailed right into the face which could take 2 to get out of anyway.

All good for me but I can't see why they can't be adopted sooner, like January 2018, why another year!!


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## Crocodile JD (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

All good as far as I am concerned including the 3 mins

Common sense may yet prevail although they could go a lot further still IMO


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## MendieGK (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

I wonder whether they will now allow pros to use DMDs? it would have to be a local rule in the comp for them not to!


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## Hosel Fade (Mar 1, 2017)

IanM said:



			I agree.... mainly positive.  Not sure  about an 80cm drop... surely a club length is easier

Max score concept is interesting.................
		
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I wasn't on board with how it sounded at first and then I saw their video. Now my main concern is say for example the relief is from a sprinkler/drain in the fairway where some balls tend to collect. About 3 people need to take relief from that and take a big divot to render the area really dodgy. Where did you see 80cm? I only see 20" which is about 50cm.


Might be worth reading through the full list of proposals rather than just the highlights as I have just seen that deflecting a ball in motion is no longer a penalty (ie. hits face of bunker, then hits player) which I think is a really good change. What does that mean re. double hitting a chip though?


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## Sybez (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

Some great one in there that will really help the game keep flowing I think! Good work R&A, but I echo why wait so long lets get playing them now.

p.s. way to cheese off half the LPGA with not allowing caddie alignment on shots! :whoo:


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## Slime (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

Excellent ........................ but why 2019?


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## ruff-driver (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Slime said:



			Excellent ........................ but why 2019?
		
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Because it'll take some folks 2yr 's to learn them


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Sybez said:



			p.s. way to cheese off half the LPGA with not allowing caddie alignment on shots! :whoo:
		
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This has been an embarrassment to the womens game for a number of years. They are top golfers elsewhere on the course but come to the green and too many need their hands holding. It will give them far more credibility.


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## Region3 (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

Just on a quick first glance;
I think replacing a ball accidentally moved in a search will be exploited by those with morals that aren't as high as we'd like.
Don't understand removing the part about a dropped ball being allowed to roll up to 2 CL without being re-dropped. Also, to know whether or not the ball has stayed in the 'relief area' (which will be less than half a CL), you'll have to (potentially) mark it out in all directions. Drops don't happen too often per round, but this appears to make the process slower.


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## Region3 (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

Will also be very interested to hear what the rules guys on here think about the apparent dumbing down of the current set.


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## IanG (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Region3 said:



			Just on a quick first glance;
I think replacing a ball accidentally moved in a search will be exploited by those with morals that aren't as high as we'd like.
Don't understand removing the part about a dropped ball being allowed to roll up to 2 CL without being re-dropped. Also, to know whether or not the ball has stayed in the 'relief area' (which will be less than half a CL), you'll have to (potentially) mark it out in all directions. Drops don't happen too often per round, but this appears to make the process slower.
		
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I think with the change to dropping from only an inch or two above the ground a lot of the rolling will be eliminated. 

The one I think is misguided is the repairing spike marks ( i.e. everything) - asking for slow play issues that one - especially at the upper levels of the game.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Region3 said:



			Will also be very interested to hear what the rules guys on here think about the apparent dumbing down of the current set.
		
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One persons dumbing down is another persons simplification . I'm in the latter camp here, let's make life easier for all concerned.


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## Capella (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Slime said:



			Excellent ........................ but why 2019?
		
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I think the RandA has a fixed 4 year revision cycle for rules, and they just changed some of them with the beginning of 2016 that will now be valid until the end of 2019. I think that fixed period of time is important for pro players and manufacturers, because the rules also include the equipment guidelines, and they need some certainty, that stuff they develop will be legal for at least a few years. I also assume (but don't know for sure) that they play test the proposed rules thoroughly before releasing them (now here's a fun job: golf rule play tester ... where can I apply?).


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## mikejohnchapman (Mar 1, 2017)

Like the thought of not penalising an accidental movement of the ball anywhere on the course.

Also not sure about abandoning the 2 club length drop - it works  and is quick. Apparently most men over estimate length so judging a correct distance could cause problems!


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## Tongo (Mar 1, 2017)

Bravo! About time on some of these.


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## USER1999 (Mar 1, 2017)

Not at all keen. The rules dont need changing to speed up play, people just need to be told to get on with it.

Surely limited stroke play is stableford. It already exists.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 1, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Fish said:



			It's obviously aimed at slow play, in part.

5 minutes is actually a long time when on the clock, if you haven't walked up to the immediate area and found it in 3 minutes it's unlikely you could find it with another 2 minutes available.
		
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But it takes more than three mins to let the game behind play through so 5 mins is not a prob.
Its the ones who look for 5 mins who don't call the game behind through that are the problem.
But it's worth a try I suppose.


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## pogle (Mar 1, 2017)

A document on the R&A site states that they are still considering what to do about double hits.

Another subject still under discussion is whether to allow a player to declare a ball lost if a provisional has been played


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## guest100718 (Mar 1, 2017)

Flag in while putting i like.


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## backwoodsman (Mar 1, 2017)

Like someone said, a mixed bag - some good , some not so, and some I just don't see the point? But it looks like BBC have over simplified the summary. Eg the changes only remove penalty for accidentally moving a ball either on green or during a search - not if you move it accidentally elsewhere. 

Not sure about swapping "club lengths" for a defined distance. After all we all have a club to hand but unlikely to carry a tape measure. And I think allowing repair of spike marks etc is opening a can of worms.

But a full read needed to decide fully.

As to why 2019 - they are putting this out to consultation. Then they will need to assess answers, and revise proposals as appropriate. All this takes time - and as we all know rules (or even laws)  which are revised in haste can sometimes have unforeseen consequences. Personally I'd rather the necessary care & time was taken first.


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## Siren (Mar 1, 2017)

Still have to pay out of a divot......

The rest of the changes are very positive tbh


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## Imurg (Mar 1, 2017)

Give with one hand, take away with the other...
Ready golf, 3 minutes ball search will speed things up a little until you get to the green when we will all become gardeners trying to create a perfect lawn. The Pros are going to take 6 hours to get round now...
I don't see the reasoning behind the change to the dropping procedure or the lengths (20"/80") or whatever...
Do we all have to carry a tape measure now?
We have a measuring device - it's called a driver and can't be more than 4' long....
Most of the rest of it I can see where they're coming from..


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2017)

As others have said, a mixed bag but no doubt once they come in and we have to use them it'll become second nature and we'll wonder what the fuss is about


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 1, 2017)

I don't see the fear regarding spike marks. I'll flatten those on my line but I won't be doing others just for the heck of it. With spike marks you rarely do much anyway, just tap them down with the flat of your putter.


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## Crow (Mar 1, 2017)

Some good some not so.

The new drop from any height, removes the chance element and will often mean that the lie is improved when taking relief.
And the definition is daft; as long as the ball "falls through the air"??? So open to interpretation and different players will drop from different heights, if they're going to do it why not just say place the ball?

20" or 80", what's wrong with the old club length or two? Will we be expected to carry yardsticks or tape measures with us?

Picking loose impediments out of a bunker or hazard? Bunkers have already been so sanitised from their original condition, being raked to give a perfect lie and with uniform sand depths, they're already a target for better players as they're so easy to escape from. I want to test myself against the natural course, not some primped version.

Repairing spike marks and other marks in the green? Imperfections in the green are part of the game and this is another example of over sanitising. 
It will also waste time as some people will go overboard with it, why not just have R&A approved astro-turf greens, year round perfect surfaces and no imperfections to repair?

Bah humbug!


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## toyboy54 (Mar 1, 2017)

I've just completed the survey,really easy and didn't take long and gave you the opportunity to give your own reasons/opinions on the various options.
Would respectfully suggest that all on here do the same(if you have then well done,these common sense changes should help/simplify things for us all....methinks)
I forgot to ask them to change stupid rule about playing from a divot...DOH!!!

Jimbo


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## fundy (Mar 1, 2017)

have completed the survey, good to see theyre canvassing feedback

recommended they introduce a rule for a free drop  from any plugged ball through the green (rather than it having to be part of a local rule)


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## pogle (Mar 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			have completed the survey, good to see theyre canvassing feedback

recommended they introduce a rule for a free drop  from any plugged ball through the green (rather than it having to be part of a local rule)
		
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This is part of the proposed changes


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## Hobbit (Mar 1, 2017)

Okay, a few that might be abused in my opinion.

Scenario 1; I'm 50 feet away on a green with more bumps and hollows than an elephant on the F-Plan diet. "Please leave the flag in" (just in case I hit it too hard and it might go 10 feet past).

Scenario 2; I'm in the rough but taking a drop from whatever. I can take advantage of a potential bad drop into a scabby area by dropping from a lot lower. Should I really be able to gain an advantage?

Scenario 3; Region3(Gary)'s example. "Sorry but I stood on the ball." Its in deep grass, buried, and now I get to take a drop. 

There's some good changes in there but there's some that could give some advantages to those that could abuse them. The rules, in general have worked well for donkey's years bar the odd one that needed changing, e.g. a drop from a fairway divot hole, but I suspect there's a cheats charter in some of the proposed changes.


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## pogle (Mar 1, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Okay, a few that might be abused in my opinion.

Scenario 1; I'm 50 feet away on a green with more bumps and hollows than an elephant on the F-Plan diet. "Please leave the flag in" (just in case I hit it too hard and it might go 10 feet past).

Scenario 2; I'm in the rough but taking a drop from whatever. I can take advantage of a potential bad drop into a scabby area by dropping from a lot lower. Should I really be able to gain an advantage?

*Scenario 3; Region3(Gary)'s example. "Sorry but I stood on the ball." Its in deep grass, buried, and now I get to take a drop.* 

There's some good changes in there but there's some that could give some advantages to those that could abuse them. The rules, in general have worked well for donkey's years bar the odd one that needed changing, e.g. a drop from a fairway divot hole, but I suspect there's a cheats charter in some of the proposed changes.
		
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In scenario 3 under the proposals a ball that is moved during a search will be placed, not dropped, and the rules tell us to place it under any natural objects such as leaves or grass as  it originally was.

This is never going to replicate the original lie perfectly but it is better than players getting a drop on top trodden down grass after a prolonged search


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## Hobbit (Mar 1, 2017)

pogle said:



			In scenario 3 under the proposals a ball that is moved during a search will be placed, not dropped, and the rules tell us to place it under any natural objects such as leaves or grass as  it originally was.

This is never going to replicate the original lie perfectly but it is better than players getting a drop on top trodden down grass after a prolonged search
		
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And if it hadn't been trodden on, or even moved, but just found in a difficult lie... I'm on about abuse of the rule, not a genuine accident.


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## Crow (Mar 1, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			And if it hadn't been trodden on, or even moved, but just found in a difficult lie... I'm on about abuse of the rule, not a genuine accident.
		
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If someone wants to abuse the rules they'll abuse them, whatever form they take.


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## Hobbit (Mar 1, 2017)

Crow said:



			If someone wants to abuse the rules they'll abuse them, whatever form they take.
		
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They'll abuse all of them, but why make it easier?


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## Region3 (Mar 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			recommended they introduce a rule for a free drop  from any plugged ball through the green (rather than it having to be part of a local rule)
		
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I put that as well, then have just come across this...

Embedded Ball
Relief for embedded ball in the general area: You may take relief if your ball is embedded anywhere (except in sand) in the general area (which is the new term for â€œthrough the greenâ€), except where a Local Rule restricts relief to the fairway or similar areas (this reverses the default position in the current Rules).


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## Region3 (Mar 1, 2017)

pogle said:



			In scenario 3 under the proposals a ball that is moved during a search will be placed, not dropped, and the rules tell us to place it under any natural objects such as leaves or grass as  it originally was.

This is never going to replicate the original lie perfectly but it is better than players getting a drop on top trodden down grass after a prolonged search
		
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There are unfortunately lots of golfers that will not place the ball in as bad a lie as it was originally in. Guaranteed.


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## Region3 (Mar 1, 2017)

Crow said:



			If someone wants to abuse the rules they'll abuse them, whatever form they take.
		
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Agreed, but a lot of potential mickey-takes can be spotted now. Replacing an accidentally moved ball, dropping from only just above the ground, and no need to tell anyone if you're picking your ball up to identify it, check for damage or to see if it's embedded would be very difficult to police the abuse of.


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## Region3 (Mar 1, 2017)

Surely using aimpoint in the rough is going to slow the game down?


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## IanG (Mar 1, 2017)

Region3 said:



			Surely using aimpoint in the rough is going to slow the game down?


View attachment 22096

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v. good Gary


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 2, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Give with one hand, take away with the other...
Ready golf, 3 minutes ball search will speed things up a little until you get to the green when we will all become gardeners trying to create a perfect lawn. The Pros are going to take 6 hours to get round now...
I don't see the reasoning behind the change to the dropping procedure or the lengths (20"/80") or whatever...
Do we all have to carry a tape measure now?
We have a measuring device - it's called a driver and can't be more than 4' long....
Most of the rest of it I can see where they're coming from..
		
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It says on the R&A website that the 20/80" can easily be measured using marks on the club shaft so there seems little point changing it.


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## chrisd (Mar 2, 2017)

I think the answer to repairing spike marks on the green should be to compel all players to carry a pair of carpet slippers, change into them for going on the green and back when leaving it, it may save time for those who will do  ' gardening for England'


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## bobmac (Mar 2, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Region3 said:



			Will also be very interested to hear what the rules guys on here think about the apparent dumbing down of the current set.
		
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Don't hold your breath, they never leave the rules room


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## Colin L (Mar 2, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



bobmac said:



			Don't hold your breath, they never leave the rules room 

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Did somebody say something?  

I'm not commenting till I've taken time to read the proposals and think.


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## rulefan (Mar 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			The rules, in general have worked well for donkey's years bar the odd one that needed changing, e.g. a drop from a fairway divot hole, but I suspect there's a cheats charter in some of the proposed changes.
		
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That really is one for the cheats. Don't like the lie. the ball is sitting down to far. Oh it's in a divot hole.


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## chrisd (Mar 2, 2017)

Just done the R&A questionnaire. Im quite happy with proposed changes as its the same for everyone but can fully understand the ' cheats charter' posts

The good thing is that making changes,  and advertising them well  makes the people who dont learn any rules, or indulge in the myths, sit upand take notice more as they'll be well publicised


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

Colin L said:



			Did somebody say something?  

I'm not commenting till I've taken time to read the proposals and think.
		
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rulefan said:



			That really is one for the cheats. Don't like the lie. the ball is sitting down to far. Oh it's in a divot hole.
		
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bobmac said:



			Don't hold your breath, they never leave the rules room 

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Just like the buses, none for ages then 2 come along together &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;


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## bobmac (Mar 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			Just like the buses, none for ages then 2 come along together &#63004;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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They must be having a day out


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## MendieGK (Mar 2, 2017)

I dont agree with the removal of the ball in a divot. It would leave the door open for too many 'contentious' discussions about whether or not it is actually a divot? 

Prevention is better than cure.


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## ScienceBoy (Mar 2, 2017)

I like these, seem good revisions.

Could go a little further in other areas.

Will take shots off scores too as well as speed up rounds.


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			I dont agree with the removal of the ball in a divot. It would leave the door open for too many 'contentious' discussions about whether or not it is actually a divot? 

Prevention is better than cure.
		
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I've always said this and it's pretty rare also imo. 

There are loads of players that attempt to get relief from what they think is a scrape which clearly isn't in the full sense of the word & description, and 1 person once tried to ask for relief just because of a few droppings as he was up against a tree &#128563;

I think a fairway divot would end up the same argument as too many people would try to interpret the rule to suit themselves and their lie!


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## Crazyface (Mar 2, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			I dont agree with the removal of the ball in a divot. It would leave the door open for too many 'contentious' discussions about whether or not it is actually a divot? 

Prevention is better than cure.
		
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I had this discussion with a few golfing mates over the years. Who cares what constitutes a divot? If you say it is, then it is. Drop nearest point on lush grass. I have no problem with that at all.


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## fundy (Mar 2, 2017)

pogle said:



			This is part of the proposed changes
		
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Region3 said:



			I put that as well, then have just come across this...

Embedded Ball
Relief for embedded ball in the general area: You may take relief if your ball is embedded anywhere (except in sand) in the general area (which is the new term for â€œthrough the greenâ€), except where a Local Rule restricts relief to the fairway or similar areas (this reverses the default position in the current Rules).
		
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teach me to read it more thoroughly, thanks  good to know me and the R&A are on the same page though


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## Crazyface (Mar 2, 2017)

Just do it quickly and be ready to hit.


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			I had this discussion with a few golfing mates over the years. Who cares what constitutes a divot? If you say it is, then it is. Drop nearest point on lush grass. I have no problem with that at all.
		
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So your happy to ignore or manipulate rules to suit, wow &#128563;


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## User62651 (Mar 2, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			I dont agree with the removal of the ball in a divot. It would leave the door open for too many 'contentious' discussions about whether or not it is actually a divot? 

Prevention is better than cure.
		
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Why not just have preferred lies for any shot 'through the green' - (6" radius not nearer hole)- and let you clean the ball - if you've hit short grass why should you be penalised by a bad lie? Golf is hard enough, they're trying to make it more attractive and easier to play. Good lie with clean ball = better result of shot = quicker golf!


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Why not just have preferred lies for any shot 'through the green' - (6" radius not nearer hole)- and let you clean the ball - if you've hit short grass why should you be penalised by a bad lie? Golf is hard enough, they're trying to make it more attractive and easier to play. Good lie with clean ball = better result of shot = quicker golf!

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But the  chompers and hackers will only make that marginal divot scrape deeper keeping divots to a minimum rather than adding another trench in the fairway &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

#Joke &#128521;


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## User62651 (Mar 2, 2017)

Fish said:



			But the  chompers and hackers will only make that marginal divot scrape deeper keeping divots to a minimum rather than adding another trench in the fairway &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

#Joke &#128521;
		
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tbh I think the better players, the good ball strikers, tend to take the bigger divots!


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## MendieGK (Mar 2, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Why not just have preferred lies for any shot 'through the green' - (6" radius not nearer hole)- and let you clean the ball - if you've hit short grass why should you be penalised by a bad lie? Golf is hard enough, they're trying to make it more attractive and easier to play. Good lie with clean ball = better result of shot = quicker golf!

Click to expand...

Who said golf was supposed to be easy to play? 
Its part of the game, if people repaired divots it wouldn't be an issue. 

There are still more than enough 'contentious' issues caused by the rules, why add another one?


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			tbh I think the better players, the good ball strikers, tend to take the bigger divots!
		
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Which I was told once is healthier as they replace easier and recuperate quicker/better against a burn like divot which can't be immediately repaired and that scuff dies! 

Most higher handicappers tend to pick the ball just brushing the fairway in this way, I always carry a seed bag though for all my skid marks &#128540;&#128514;&#127948;&#65039;


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## User62651 (Mar 2, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Who said golf was supposed to be easy to play? 
Its part of the game, if people repaired divots it wouldn't be an issue. 

There are still more than enough 'contentious' issues caused by the rules, why add another one?
		
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Easier not easy!

How is moving a ball within 6" contentious? It's done at most clubs through the winter already.


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## MendieGK (Mar 2, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Easier not easy!

How is moving a ball within 6" contentious? It's done at most clubs through the winter already.
		
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I'm talking about the divot rule.


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## User62651 (Mar 2, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			I'm talking about the divot rule.
		
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So you're worried about more divots? Fair enough.

Is it a rule or a 'you should' rather than 'you must' i.e you wont get a penalty but you might get a bollocking off an angry greenkeeper!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2017)

Ah the old preferred lies throughout the year argument 

People wanting to make the game easier because on the very odd occasion they make role into a divot - in the 8 years I have been playing it's happened twice where it's been a significant divot. 

One of the fundamentals of golf - play it as it lies , if someone has a bad lie - oh well rub of the green. Agree with it at times during the winter where the ground could be sodden and you could end up doing damage but at times I would like it gone because you could see people looking and begging for preffered lies anywhere on the course - how about tee up every shot ?


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## MendieGK (Mar 2, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			So you're worried about more divots? Fair enough.

Is it a rule or a 'you should' rather than 'you must' i.e you wont get a penalty but you might get a bollocking off an angry greenkeeper!
		
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I'm saying, a free drop (or place) in your example from a divot would be contentious as their would be debates as to whether or not it is a divot. At what point is a divot no longer a divot etc? 

Your suggestion is more extreme and whilst would remove the example above, i dont agree with it or like it. What next? allow people to tee the ball up wherever they like?


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## User62651 (Mar 2, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			I'm saying, a free drop (or place) in your example from a divot would be contentious as their would be debates as to whether or not it is a divot. At what point is a divot no longer a divot etc? 

Your suggestion is more extreme and whilst would remove the example above, i dont agree with it or like it. *What next? allow people to tee the ball up wherever they like?*

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Well no, tees are for the teeing area. 
Governing bodies are looking at changes so just throwing out an idea. Preferred lies isn't really 'out there', I live on west side of Scotland, it's wet a lot, parkland courses are wet and mossy, we probably suffer from duff lies and dirty balls (dont go there!) on fairways more than other areas.  

I can live without it......Just sayin'


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## MendieGK (Mar 2, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Well no, tees are for the teeing area. 
Governing bodies are looking at changes so just throwing out an idea. Preferred lies isn't really 'out there', I live on west side of Scotland, it's wet a lot, parkland courses are wet and mossy, we probably suffer from duff lies and dirty balls (dont go there!) on fairways more than other areas.  

I can live without it......Just sayin'
		
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Yeah fully agree mate, ideas are good. not telling you, you are wrong.


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## oltimer (Mar 2, 2017)

As these proposed changes are how many who don`t know the rules already play the game, at least we will now have a more level playing field.

don`t like what will be giving a preferred lie in the rough.


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## North Mimms (Mar 2, 2017)

Putting with the flag in- I REALLY like this.
Speeds up play and maybe reduces wear around the hole from people tending.

Also being able to remove stuff from bunkers, excellent


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## backwoodsman (Mar 2, 2017)

Err... there seems to be plenty of discussion on here about the wisdom of allowing a drop from a divot. That's not being proposed - is it???  (If it is, I've missed it and can someone point me at where, as I'd be interested to read)


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## drdel (Mar 2, 2017)

I think most reflect common sense and I don't have any big issues.  

For the average golfer the small advantages of dropping or 'favourably placing' with have next to no impact on the outcome of a 150yd shot. Likewise moving 'stuff' in the 'average' Clubs'  bunker with an already variable sand depth will, very rarely, effect the result for the hole. In any case the 'advantages' will probably balance out during a round.

Let's be honest the changes and their real impact on the execution of the vast majority of shots which are of 'average' accuracy will be next to now't.


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 2, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Who said golf was supposed to be easy to play? 
Its part of the game, if people repaired divots it wouldn't be an issue. 

There are still more than enough 'contentious' issues caused by the rules, why add another one?
		
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what about the birds that remove divots early morning looking for worms I have seen them do it.
In equity if you are on the fairway you should have a fairway lie NOT a crater from someone else's divot.
I take big divots and always replace them but God  help anyone who ended in one of mine if a bird removed it.


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## rulie (Mar 2, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Well no, tees are for the teeing area. 
*Governing bodies are looking at changes so just throwing out an idea.* Preferred lies isn't really 'out there', I live on west side of Scotland, it's wet a lot, parkland courses are wet and mossy, we probably suffer from duff lies and dirty balls (dont go there!) on fairways more than other areas.  

I can live without it......Just sayin'
		
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In fact, the governing bodies have proposed changes and are looking for comments on those proposed changes.  In their evaluation of potential changes, they discarded the idea of free relief from divot holes.


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## hopeful (Mar 2, 2017)

One's I've seen in the press look to be generally common-sense updates and should speed the game up but...
...can see the pro's going in for some meticulous gardening
...will we have to carry some sort of measuring device for 20" and 80" ?
...can't see the time advantage of 'flagstick in'


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2017)

hopeful said:



			...can't see the time advantage of 'flagstick in'
		
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Some courses have huge greens. You may get to your ball at the front, flag at the back and then have to wait for someone to take their trolley to the far side, walk across and pick out the flag. Now you can just line up your putt and go without waiting for your pp to catch up. I like that one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Some courses have huge greens. You may get to your ball at the front, flag at the back and then have to wait for someone to take their trolley to the far side, walk across and pick out the flag. Now you can just line up your putt and go without waiting for your pp to catch up. I like that one.
		
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The flag will also stop a poorly hit putt from going too far - don't like the rule. People normally wait until pitch marks repaired and balls marked which give plenty of time for a players to remove the flag


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 2, 2017)

You can't have it all LP. The agreed common enemy at the moment is slow play. That is taking priority over the odd whacked putt against a flag. Based on how often people hit the flag I think it is okay to try this out.


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			- don't like the rule.
		
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Aren't these just proposals currently though, they'll do some test playing to them and listen to feedback from many quarters, hence the delay in bringing them into play, so isn't there a possibility they won't all get sanctioned?


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 2, 2017)

Yes these are proposals for discussion and feedback purposes, which is why this thread isn't in the rules section, as they aren't rules yet.


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## Rlburnside (Mar 2, 2017)

Sybez said:



			Some great one in there that will really help the game keep flowing I think! Good work R&A, but I echo why wait so long lets get playing them now.

p.s. way to cheese off half the LPGA with not allowing caddie alignment on shots! :whoo:
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			The flag will also stop a poorly hit putt from going too far - don't like the rule. People normally wait until pitch marks repaired and balls marked which give plenty of time for a players to remove the flag
		
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Think this is a good proposed change, might stop a poorly hit put going to far but on the other hand there are times you put / chip from edge of green and hits the pin and deflects the ball which might otherwise have gone in.


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## duncan mackie (Mar 2, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



Region3 said:



			Will also be very interested to hear what the rules guys on here think about the apparent dumbing down of the current set.
		
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I'm still working my way through the draft 151 page rule book to try and understand whether it really is a dumbing down....early indications are that there are some significant aspects that I've not seen any comment on (here) as well as a load of comments on things that aren't changing (as usual).
And then there's the matter of the new Handbook, and how that will fit in...
Huge amount to digest - and that's just to understand if things are really being dumbed down!

Snap shot suggests that it's more about 'combing them out' ie realigning all the elements to try and help people comprehend both the structure and content. This has merit - but, IMO, assumes a level of involvement with the rules that simply doesn't exist.


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## Snelly (Mar 2, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*

All great changes as far as I can see.  Should help to improve the amateur game. 

I love the flag in the hole rule.  It is already in place at the RAC Club and having experienced this, it definitely improves the speed of play and helps to reduce the crowning around holes. 

The pros?  Largely irrelevant to them in terms of speeding up play in my view.  I can already see Jason Day tapping down fifteen spike marks per green.    The only thing that will speed them up is penalty strokes.  Two ball of professionals?  Get round in 3 hours 30 minutes or you drop 3 shots as a penalty. 

Problem solved.


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## backwoodsman (Mar 2, 2017)

*Re: Rules of Golf Changes - 2019*



duncan mackie said:



			I'm still working my way through the draft 151 page rule book to try and understand whether it really is a dumbing down....early indications are that there are some significant aspects that I've not seen any comment on (here) as well as a load of comments on things that aren't changing (as usual).
And then there's the matter of the new Handbook, and how that will fit in...
Huge amount to digest - and that's just to understand if things are really being dumbed down!

Snap shot suggests that it's more about 'combing them out' ie realigning all the elements to try and help people comprehend both the structure and content. This has merit - but, IMO, assumes a level of involvement with the rules that simply doesn't exist.
		
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 This  ^^^   :thup:

Am still reading the draft,  but so far not sure they are especially making anything simpler - which was one of the aims - but in many cases just saying the same thing in different words


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## AmandaJR (Mar 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The flag will also stop a poorly hit putt from going too far - don't like the rule. People normally wait until pitch marks repaired and balls marked which give plenty of time for a players to remove the flag
		
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Didn't Dave Pelz or someone test how many putts dropped with/without the flag in and proved more drop when the flag is out - suggesting to have it removed when chipping? I prefer flag out when I can see the hole and prefer not to have it attended when off the green as folk trampling all over the hole and often on the wrong side and shadow interfering etc etc...I think it will speed up play on the greens.


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## oltimer (Mar 2, 2017)

clubchamp98 said:



			what about the birds that remove divots early morning looking for worms I have seen them do it.
In equity if you are on the fairway you should have a fairway lie NOT a crater from someone else's divot.
I take big divots and always replace them but God  help anyone who ended in one of mine if a bird removed it.
		
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In equity if you are in the Rough you should a less than perfect lie but the proposals leave it open to some to have in effect a preferred lie.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The flag will also stop a poorly hit putt from going too far - don't like the rule. People normally wait until pitch marks repaired and balls marked which give plenty of time for a players to remove the flag
		
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No different from putting from the fringe and doing the same thing. To be honest the number of times poor putters hitting it way too hard will hit the flag anyway is minimal and chances are for every bit of luck they get they will have three putted many more times. Can't see the issue


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2017)

oltimer said:



			In equity if you are in the Rough you should a less than perfect lie but the proposals leave it open to some to have in effect a preferred lie.
		
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I agree will not speed up play if players are arguing that someone has made their lie better by kicking it "accidentally " while searching or picking it up for identification without witness.


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## USER1999 (Mar 3, 2017)

Strangely, they are not changing the water hazard rules, which every one gets wrong. If anything needed changing, its that one.


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## Slab (Mar 3, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Strangely, they are not changing the water hazard rules, which every one gets wrong. If anything needed changing, its that one.
		
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I thought I saw a reference to them being reclassified as Penalty Areas (suggesting some other changes might be happening, but I haven't read it through yet)


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 3, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Strangely, they are not changing the water hazard rules, which every one gets wrong. If anything needed changing, its that one.
		
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Play a bit in Florida most courses if you hit it wide have lateral hazards marked by red stakes .
This is mainly because there are dangerous things in there but also speeds up play as you drop where it crossed 1 shot penalty.


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## DRW (Mar 3, 2017)

Most seem to make sense to me, never really understood why hitting the flagstick in a penalty if on the green and if off the fairway it wasn't, just seemed a rule for a sake of a rule.

Also like no being able to tap down any spike marks on the green. And agree with reducing looking time, some people don't like giving up a ball, so less time would be good.

The caddies lining up players was always mad and never understood why that should be allowed.


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## guest100718 (Mar 3, 2017)

DarrenWilliams said:



			Most seem to make sense to me, never really understood why hitting the flagstick in a penalty if on the green and if off the fairway it wasn't, just seemed a rule for a sake of a rule.

Also like no being able to tap down any spike marks on the green. And agree with reducing looking time, some people don't like giving up a ball, so less time would be good.

The caddies lining up players was always mad and never understood why that should be allowed.
		
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It will still be a penalty to hit the flag sitck.... juts not if its oin the hole


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 3, 2017)

The real reason for slow play is players waddling along instead of walking at a decent pace and the 5 minute blether on every tee before a ball is struck.


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 3, 2017)

not sure about the OOB rule, so open for abuse.

Also the removing loose impediments and grounding in penalty area are tosh, are you in hazard or not??? is water a lose impediment?? hang on let me just get my pump and drain this out 

Why not just stop marking hazards?


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## pogle (Mar 3, 2017)

NorfolkShaun said:



			not sure about the OOB rule, so open for abuse.

Also the removing loose impediments and grounding in penalty area are tosh, are you in hazard or not??? is water a lose impediment?? hang on let me just get my pump and drain this out 

Why not just stop marking hazards?
		
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Which part of the OOB rule is open to abuse?


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 4, 2017)

pogle said:



			Which part of the OOB rule is open to abuse?
		
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We  have a few shots with OOB where it is so hard to tell where you crossed OOB, very easy for a dominating person to gain 50 or so yards if there is uncertainty where it crossed. i.e. cannot see it cross or cannot find the ball.

Old rule no doubt where your playing from. Maybe if they want to soften OOB rule drop the penalty stroke? so second shot from the tee. I don't know personally i would not change OOB rule as the current ne is very clear, the new one could be abused in certain circumstances


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 4, 2017)

If you hit a ball in the vicinity of another person on the course and don't shout Fore ,if you hit anybody as a result .
Two shot penalty 
If you do it again in same round D/Q.
This should be included in the new rules.


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## Colin L (Mar 4, 2017)

NorfolkShaun said:



			not sure about the OOB rule, so open for abuse.
		
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What change is being proposed to the OOB rule?  I haven't seen any.


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 4, 2017)

Colin L said:



			What change is being proposed to the OOB rule?  I haven't seen any.
		
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drop from where you crossed oob


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## 6Aces (Mar 4, 2017)

NorfolkShaun said:



			drop from where you crossed oob
		
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 I did not see the section where it was written that the ball may be dropped near where it may have gone out of bounds.  Where did you find this?


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## Imurg (Mar 4, 2017)

I think it was a suggestion from Peter Finch in one of his videos - don't think it's in the proposed changes


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## upsidedown (Mar 4, 2017)

NorfolkShaun said:



			drop from where you crossed oob
		
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Cant see that anywhere


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 4, 2017)

upsidedown said:



			Cant see that anywhere
		
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Peter Finch was on about it, think it may of been more of a suggestion that a rule though.


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## Beedee (Mar 4, 2017)

It mentioned as a "what do you think" when you complete the R and A survey


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## Alex1975 (Mar 5, 2017)

Love it! Less rules is generally a good thing!


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## garyinderry (Mar 5, 2017)

The proposed new drop rule is basically a place.  If you can drop from one inch you may as well just sit the ball down. 


Really don't see the benefits of this. Would prefer to see if return to the drop over the shoulder rule.


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## delc (Mar 5, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			The proposed new drop rule is basically a place.  If you can drop from one inch you may as well just sit the ball down. 


Really don't see the benefits of this. Would prefer to see if return to the drop over the shoulder rule.
		
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Ball is less likely to plug in bunkers.


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## Imurg (Mar 5, 2017)

Why do people keep forgetting that bunkers are supposed to be a hazard....


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## delc (Mar 5, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Why do people keep forgetting that bunkers are supposed to be a hazard....
		
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If you do get a free or penalty drop in a bunker, dropping the ball from shoulder height often means it plugs and you end up with a much worse lie than you had in the first place!


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## Imurg (Mar 5, 2017)

So don't drop it....Unless you have to
And it's a hazard, playing out of them isn't supposed to be easy


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## garyinderry (Mar 5, 2017)

delc said:



			Ball is less likely to plug in bunkers.
		
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Why not just place the ball?  one inch drop is a farce.


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## USER1999 (Mar 6, 2017)

Now you can remove loose impediments from bunkers, and you can accidentally move the ball while looking for it, if my ball goes into a bunker full of leaves, i am going to be like a badger in there, shovelling leaves out.


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## pogle (Mar 6, 2017)

murphthemog said:



			Now you can remove loose impediments from bunkers, and you can accidentally move the ball while looking for it, if my ball goes into a bunker full of leaves, i am going to be like a badger in there, shovelling leaves out.
		
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Well, if you believe your ball is covered by leaves in the bunker, you can already move them without penalty to find your ball.  Granted, you can't touch the sand and there's a penalty if you move your ball during the search, but it is great fun to do this when playing with someone who doesn't know.

If you believe your ball is covered by sand anywhere on the course, including bunkers, you can go at it like a badger as there's no penalty if you move your ball.  Another good situation to observe the look on other players' faces!


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## inthehole (Mar 8, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The real reason for slow play is players waddling along instead of walking at a decent pace and the 5 minute blether on every tee before a ball is struck.
		
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Absolutely , plus everyone in group not watching and marking balls when hit in rough.


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