# Wedge Gaps



## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

I think there's too big a gap between my PW and GW. I'm not sure how best to go about fixing this.

The PW is strong-lofted at 44Â°, and a full swing is about 125 yards. My GW is 50Â°, and a full swing is 100 yards. I can grip down on the PW and take it down to about 115 yards, but that's still quite a gap. As I have a short backswing I find it very difficult to hit, say, a 80% or 90% swing - all I can do comfortably is half-swings (or what feels like half) for yardages under 100, or full swings.

Consequently when I have around 107, 108 yards for example I find myself going with the GW and trying to leather it, which is a bit of a disaster, or trying to grip down on the PW and either accept being right on the back edge of the green, or try and take a bit off it but I struggle to judge how much I'm taking off and end up well short - or worse, with a poor contact because I'm not comfortable in the swing I'm trying to make.

Do you think it's worth changing my wedges up and maybe getting a 48 & 54 instead of the 50 & 56? I would be a bit sad to lose the 56 as it's a nice for little lofted chip shots over bunkers and suchlike, but then I'd possibly get a 58 in rather than the 60 as well and then perhaps I'd be fine.

Or alternatively, has anyone got some really great tips to help me out with those 90% PW swings? Because as I say, I end up taking almost nothing off it or way too much off it at the moment which is frustrating.

Really not sure which way to go.


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## fundy (Oct 8, 2019)

2 options for me, either buy a set of irons where the PW is a PW not a 9 iron, or if youre happy with the irons then Id add another wedge personally 

Try and ignore whats written on them and find one that fills the gap and goes 112ish for a smooth swing (likely to be 47/48 degrees prob)


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

Out of interest, how do you play a shot from 50-60 yds?


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 8, 2019)

How far does the 56 go as I can see you then having a gapping issue between your 50 and the 56 as well. Personally I'd go 44, 50 and 56 as at least there is even gapping and then spend the winter working on hitting finesse shots with each one so you can control distances without having to go all out. I am sure someone like Bob would have a few drills or ideas to help you work on it


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Out of interest, how do you play a shot from 50-60 yds?
		
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50 yards is a half swing 50Â° gripped down a bit. 60 yards is either a half swing 50Â° gripped normally, or half swing PW gripped right down, depending on how much I think it'll run in the conditions.

Obviously if I end up taking the 50Â° out I'll have to refigure these little distances out as well.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How far does the 56 go as I can see you then having a gapping issue between your 50 and the 56 as well. Personally I'd go 44, 50 and 56 as at least there is even gapping and then spend the winter working on hitting finesse shots with each one so you can control distances without having to go all out. I am sure someone like Bob would have a few drills or ideas to help you work on it
		
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Full swing with the 56Â° is around 80-85 yards but I prefer not to as the chance of a thin bullet is vastly higher. Under 100 yards I prefer to go with half swings of the 9 iron, PW, etc as it's safer.


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			50 yards is a half swing 50Â° gripped down a bit. 60 yards is either a half swing 50Â° gripped normally, or half swing PW gripped right down, depending on how much I think it'll run in the conditions.

Obviously if I end up taking the 50Â° out I'll have to refigure these little distances out as well.
		
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 So you never play a three quarter swing with any club?


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			So you never play a three quarter swing with any club?
		
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No because I have no idea what a three quarter swing is. 



			As I have a *short backswing* I find it very difficult to hit, say, a 80% or 90% swing - *all I can do comfortably* is half-swings (or what feels like half) for yardages under 100, or full swings.
		
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By this I mean if your full swing has a short backswing like I do, it sort of condenses everything - the distance between full and half swing is less, therefore I find it harder to judge the middle point between them. If that makes any sense? It's like like my full swing already is a three quarter swing by most people's standards.


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

I would suggest you have a lesson on how to control your wedge distances.
And while you are at it, have a chat with the pro about your 4 wood, 20 hybrid and 3 iron combo.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 8, 2019)

I am virtually the same with my PW and 50 degree.
I work on the clock system 
I also have a very short backswing for all my clubs but can get good distances.
If I take my pw back to 8 I get 122 yrds
If I take my 50 back the same I will get 100
If I take my pw back to 9 oâ€™clock still a relatively short backswing I can squeeze 130
Again the same for the 50 back to 9 oâ€™clock I can get 115
Itâ€™s quite difficult as you are finding out to take 10 yards off or add 10 but for me itâ€™s all about the length of swing.

Shorter distances I also have a 54 and 58 once again using the clock drill for distances so basically 4 wedges.

Donâ€™t know if you use the clock face drill but because you have a short backswing it could work as itâ€™s never a full swing


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I would suggest you have a lesson on how to control your wedge distances.
And while you are at it, have a chat with the pro about your 4 wood, 20 hybrid and 3 iron combo.
		
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Come on, everyone knows I don't do lessons lol. 

I don't even use the 3 iron anymore. That's still there from a time over a year ago when I couldn't hit hybrids and my driving wasn't working. I just haven't taken it out because I haven't needed the space to put anything else in yet. Figured I'd just leave it there in case I have a day where everything else off the tee fails me for some reason.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			I am virtually the same with my PW and 50 degree.
I work on the clock system
I also have a very short backswing for all my clubs but can get good distances.
If I take my pw back to 8 I get 122 yrds
If I take my 50 back the same I will get 100
If I take my pw back to 9 oâ€™clock still a relatively short backswing I can squeeze 130
Again the same for the 50 back to 9 oâ€™clock I can get 115
Itâ€™s quite difficult as you are finding out to take 10 yards off or add 10 but for me itâ€™s all about the length of swing.

Shorter distances I also have a 54 and 58 once again using the clock drill for distances so basically 4 wedges.

Donâ€™t know if you use the clock face drill but because you have a short backswing it could work as itâ€™s never a full swing
		
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That is the kind of thing I find really difficult. I wouldn't know what number on the 'clock' I was swinging to unless watching myself in a mirror or something. Surely 9 o'clock is forwards and you mean 3 o'clock?   I can't really picture it but might be worth trying over winter.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			That is the kind of thing I find really difficult. I wouldn't know what number on the 'clock' I was swinging to unless watching myself in a mirror or something. Surely 9 o'clock is forwards and you mean 3 o'clock?   I can't really picture it but might be worth trying over winter.
		
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Depends which way round you have your clock I suppose 
Yes use a mirror initially if you need to,once your dialled in you wonâ€™t need one.


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)




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## User20204 (Oct 8, 2019)

What's your handicap ?


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			What's your handicap ?
		
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16


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			What's your handicap ?
		
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Don't say it, it won't get us anywhere


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## User20204 (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Don't say it, it won't get us anywhere


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Possibly but I shake my head sometimes when, let's just say, a 16 handicapped player hits a club a set distance, this is not my experience playing with higher handicapped players.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

fundy said:



			2 options for me, either buy a set of irons where the PW is a PW not a 9 iron, or if youre happy with the irons then *Id add another wedge personally 

Try and ignore whats written on them and find one that fills the gap and goes 112ish for a smooth swing (likely to be 47/48 degrees prob)*

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Thinking about it more, I think Fundy has a point here. With my PW being part of a set of very forgiving irons, I think it probably goes much further than a standalone wedge of equivalent loft would do. So despite it looking wrong with the lofts, I feel like a 46Â° wedge may actually plug the gap in terms of distance. 

Looking at it this way:
9i(39): 135
PW(44): 125
_46: 110?_
50: 100
56: 80-85

Since normally you see 2 or 3 yards for every degree of loft, but going from the PW to 50 that becomes more than 4 yards.


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## pokerjoke (Oct 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Possibly but I shake my head sometimes when, let's just say, a 16 handicapped player hits a club a set distance, this is not my experience playing with higher handicapped players.
		
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This maybe true due to consistency but your guidelines have to be your best or most consistent shots and yardages


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			This maybe true due to consistency but your guidelines have to be your best or most consistent shots and yardages
		
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If he wants to keep thinking that 16 handicappers just hit random clubs at random distances then let him.


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## User20204 (Oct 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			If he wants to keep thinking that 16 handicappers just hit random clubs at random distances then let him. 

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It's certainly my experience that higher handicappers hit random clubs the same distance.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			It's certainly my experience that higher handicappers hit random clubs the same distance.
		
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Good for you. I assume they only have about 4 clubs in the bag then, not much point having all the others is there.


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

If you won't have a lesson.......
Get your 9 iron bent to 40, your PW bent to 45, leave the rest and then just practice.
Although, if you don't have a lesson, you won't know what to practice. 

Having a 44, 46, 50, 56 and 60 wedge is just daft in my opinion.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			If you won't have a lesson.......
Get your 9 iron bent to 40, your PW bent to 45, leave the rest and then just practice.
Although, if you don't have a lesson, you won't know what to practice. 

*Having a 44, 46, 50, 5456 and 60 wedge is just daft in my opinion*.
		
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Yeah, I'd agree with you on paper as well, it's just the fact that the '44' is actually a game improvement iron which is making that gap larger in yards than it should be. That's causing the whole issue really. On paper the gap between a 44Â° wedge and 50Â° wedge shouldn't be 25 yards. As Fundy touched upon, looking at the lofts alone it doesn't make sense.


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## Duckster (Oct 8, 2019)

How many times do you actually have that distance in a round? If itâ€™s quite a lot then instead or trying to shoe horn in another wedge, would it not be better to use a different club on the approach and trying to leave a distance you are comfortable with? Course management before spending Â£80-Â£120 on a new club.


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## User20204 (Oct 8, 2019)

Duckster said:



			How many times do you actually have that distance in a round? If itâ€™s quite a lot then instead or trying to shoe horn in another wedge, would it not be better to use a different club on the approach and trying to leave a distance you are comfortable with? Course management before spending Â£80-Â£120 on a new club.
		
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These type of players suffer from delusion and lack of reality, generally through watching to many YouTube videos rather than actually being realistic about their game.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

Duckster said:



			How many times do you actually have that distance in a round? If itâ€™s quite a lot then instead or trying to shoe horn in another wedge, would it not be better to use a different club on the approach and trying to leave a distance you are comfortable with? Course management before spending Â£80-Â£120 on a new club.
		
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More times than I'd like. Obviously I'm not good enough to lay up to a precise wedge yardage so I take it as it comes. And before someone says it, yes my shortest clubs are more consistent distance wise than the longest ones funnily enough.



HappyHacker1 said:



			These type of players suffer from delusion and lack of reality, generally through watching to many YouTube videos rather than actually being realistic about their game.
		
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Go away you insufferable bore.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:









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Ok I've just had a chance to watch this, and what he terms as 8 o'clock is what I was calling my half swing, and what he terms as 9 o'clock is very nearly my full swing - let's say my full swing is about 10 o'clock on his scale.


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## User20204 (Oct 8, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Go away you insufferable bore.
		
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Personal insults don't phase me btw, it's also not my fault some can't face the truth, but by all means carry on with your insults if that's what you wish.


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## Orikoru (Oct 8, 2019)

There's always one.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 8, 2019)

Most cappers would benefit from another wedge imo.
Their long game is usually erratic at best ,but a good short game is an equaliser.
With your reduced backswing the clock system will be difficult to get right.
I have 4* between my wedges 
Pw 46*
Gap 50*
Sand wedge 54* was 52 but had it adjusted .
Lob wedge 58*.  Was 56 but had it adjusted.
The closer gaps cover most distances without having to adjust your swing.


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## Wabinez (Oct 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Ok I've just had a chance to watch this, and what he terms as 8 o'clock is what I was calling my half swing, and what he terms as 9 o'clock is very nearly my full swing - let's say my full swing is about 10 o'clock on his scale.
		
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From someone who has been through this, the clock face is personal....it is what it *feels* like to *you*.

Once you get you head around it, and focus on where your arms are, and not the club, it does make things a bit easier


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## Orikoru (Oct 9, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Most cappers would benefit from another wedge imo.
Their long game is usually erratic at best ,but a good short game is an equaliser.
With your reduced backswing the clock system will be difficult to get right.
I have 4* between my wedges
Pw 46*
Gap 50*
Sand wedge 54* was 52 but had it adjusted .
Lob wedge 58*.  Was 56 but had it adjusted.
The closer gaps cover most distances without having to adjust your swing.
		
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I think you're right, although my long game has improved this year as I've got used to my hybrids. 

I decided to go with Fundy's advice (and similar to what you're saying here) and pick up another wedge to hopefully slot in. I scoured Golfbidder and found an RTX 2.0 in 46Â°. It should arrive Thursday, I'll trial it by fire on the course on Saturday and if it doesn't fill the gap effectively I can send it back on their 7 day return I think. Or get it adjusted to 47Â° if need be.




Wabinez said:



			From someone who has been through this, the clock face is personal....it is what it *feels* like to *you*.

Once you get you head around it, and focus on where your arms are, and not the club, it does make things a bit easier
		
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Thanks. I'll still give this a go over winter as there's no harm, and I can always change the wedge set-up again if I like this technique.


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## SGC001 (Oct 9, 2019)

As you've alluded to it dont matter what is written on the bottom of the sole it's how far it goes.

The main options have been covered in

Getting lofts checked and bent if necessary

Clockface is tried and trusted and has as been said it's how it feels to you.

A couple of other options are that distance can also be controlled by controlling the speed of your body turn their might be a stan utley video out there on youtube somewhere.

Another way is as you say u can half swing then u can consider half hitting other irons like 9s or 8s which is a useful shot on links and in the wind anyway.

Edit
It also reads like u r still this is hard to phrase coiling, with the clockface if u can take what pelz has calls a synchronised wedge swing distance gaps can very consistent and landings soft. Effectively they are taking the hit out by not leading so much with the lower body. 
When u make that synchronised swing you will feel it as it's very different, hitting with eyes shut is a drill that can help u get there.


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## jim8flog (Oct 9, 2019)

What bounce do you have on the 50 and if you have the 50 bent to 48 can you live with the 2 degree bounce difference?

Leaning to control wedge differences is about learning the clock method.  ie  a full swing is 12 o'clock learn to swing 11 to 1 , 10 to 2 rather than changing swing speed.


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## Duckster (Oct 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I think you're right, although my long game has improved this year as I've got used to my hybrids.

I decided to go with Fundy's advice (and similar to what you're saying here) and pick up another wedge to hopefully slot in. I scoured Golfbidder and found an RTX 2.0 in 46Â°. It should arrive Thursday, I'll trial it by fire on the course on Saturday and if it doesn't fill the gap effectively I can send it back on their 7 day return I think. Or get it adjusted to 47Â° if need be.



Thanks. I'll still give this a go over winter as there's no harm, and I can always change the wedge set-up again if I like this technique.
		
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I use this technique but I try to think more about shoulder turn instead of where my arms are. It just works a bit better for me, might work for you if youâ€™ve only a shorter backswing


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## User20204 (Oct 9, 2019)

I had my PW checked a couple weeks back, should be 46, turned out it was 49, had it tweaked to 46, now hitting it the distance I should have always been instead of coming up short all the time like I had been for ages.


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## hovis (Oct 10, 2019)

do you have a consistent strike and trajectory from these distances?  if not then it pointless going any further until you do.  you could learn the clock system but if you deliver the club at different lofts each time then it isn't going to work.


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## Orikoru (Oct 10, 2019)

hovis said:



			do you have a consistent strike and trajectory from these distances?  if not then it pointless going any further until you do.  you could learn the clock system but if you deliver the club at different lofts each time then it isn't going to work.
		
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I would say hitting wedges is probably the most consistent part of my game. As consistent as you could expect from a 16 capper anyway. The 50Â° for example is nearly always between 95 and 100 yards distance (ignoring wind etc), possibly most consistent club in the bag for me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I would say hitting wedges is probably the most consistent part of my game. As consistent as you could expect from a 16 capper anyway. The 50Â° for example is nearly always between 95 and 100 yards distance (ignoring wind etc), possibly most consistent club in the bag for me.
		
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What about sideways dispersion? How widely do you miss the target on either side assuming you get the distance going forward working normally


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## Orikoru (Oct 10, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What about sideways dispersion? How widely do you miss the target on either side assuming you get the distance going forward working normally
		
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I don't know, depends on what day it is! Not sure that has a bearing when we're talking about yardage gaps though anyway. If I have a day where I'm pulling all my approaches then it's not a result of which wedges I'm carrying is it?


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## garyinderry (Oct 10, 2019)

Did you try the same lenght swings but differnt speeds?  A few practice swings before hand to gauge how hard to hit it should sort you out.


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## Orikoru (Oct 10, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Did you try the same lenght swings but differnt speeds?  A few practice swings before hand to gauge how hard to hit it should sort you out.
		
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If I consciously slow down my swing I'm almost guaranteed to miscue it.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			If I consciously slow down my swing I'm almost guaranteed to miscue it. 

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My mate a two handicap has a half swing . For 100yds and in.
Left arm parallel to ground club shaft facing the sky.
He does it exactly the same every time.
He then just changes the club for the distance he wants .
Might work for you with some practice as itâ€™s only one swing .


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## Orikoru (Oct 10, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			My mate a two handicap has a half swing . For 100yds and in.
Left arm parallel to ground club shaft facing the sky.
He does it exactly the same every time.
He then just changes the club for the distance he wants .
Might work for you with some practice as itâ€™s only one swing .
		
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Music to my ears that is. That's the dream.


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## Rlburnside (Oct 10, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Possibly but I shake my head sometimes when, let's just say, a 16 handicapped player hits a club a set distance, this is not my experience playing with higher handicapped players.
		
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I tend to agree with you, Iâ€™m a similar h/c (17) I can hit my pw anything from 80 yards to 110 yards, so for me I need to try and get more consistent with my yardages before I think about adding anymore wedges.


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2019)

Took my PW, new 46Â° and 50Â° down the range last night, and I was encouraged enough that the yardage of the 46 does seem to sit in between the other two. So I guess I'll find out for sure on Saturday.


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## patricks148 (Oct 11, 2019)

couldn't you just have had your PW bent to 46?

two deg isn't that much for the sake of a new club


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## Slab (Oct 11, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Did you try the same lenght swings but differnt speeds?  A few practice swings before hand to gauge how hard to hit it should sort you out.
		
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Orikoru said:



			If I consciously slow down my swing I'm almost guaranteed to miscue it. 

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If I want to slow the wedge swing down speed down without it feeling like i'm deliberately slowing it down I just narrow my stance (along with gripping down etc) it takes off a few yards & also tightens dispersion




Warning: I am not an expert


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## garyinderry (Oct 11, 2019)

Its 12degees here with a wind that would cut you. 

Theres 10 yards knocked off right away.  Haha


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## bobmac (Oct 11, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			couldn't you just have had your PW bent to 46?

two deg isn't that much for the sake of a new club
		
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But that would mean a 7 degree gap between his 9 iron (39 deg) and his 46.
That's why I suggested bending the 9 to 40, the PW to 45 and leave the 50 alone.
40, 45, 50.......... perfect. Nope
I suspect the OP just wants a new shiney so my advice got ignored.


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## patricks148 (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			But that would mean a 7 degree gap between his 9 iron (39 deg) and his 46.
That's why I suggested bending the 9 to 40, the PW to 45 and leave the 50 alone.
40, 45, 50.......... perfect. Nope
I suspect the OP just wants a new shiney so my advice got ignored.
		
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not a fan of having 4 wedges, but i suppose it must be quite common with lofts getting stronger


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			But that would mean a 7 degree gap between his 9 iron (39 deg) and his 46.
That's why I suggested bending the 9 to 40, the PW to 45 and leave the 50 alone.
40, 45, 50.......... perfect. Nope
I suspect the OP just wants a new shiney so my advice got ignored.
		
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Hardly ignored, I don't think bending the PW one single degree is going to fix a 25 yard gap is it?? From common perception I've found online, 1 degree equates to about 2 or 3 yards. So I'd still have a 22 yard gap.


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## bobmac (Oct 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			So I'd still have a 22 yard gap.
		
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Not necessarily.


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Not necessarily.
		
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So at best I'd be bending two clubs without actually knowing what the result will be. At least if my new wedge doesn't plug the gap I can just sell it again with hardly any loss. Adding a new club in the gap seemed like the least amount of fuss that's all. After weighing up everyone's ideas I went with what I thought would be the simplest solution to try first - I'm genuinely sorry if it hurts your feelings that it wasn't yours. I appreciate your contributions in answering my query. 

I didn't totally ignore you either, I did try the clock theory at the range last night. From what I could tell my 'full' swing was about 10 o'clock and my 'half' swing was about 8 o'clock which makes it quite difficult to find 9 o'clock which such a narrow mid-point.

We know you know your stuff but you don't have to come across so bitter when somebody goes down another route.


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## bobmac (Oct 11, 2019)

I'm not bitter.
I've just seen so many people making the same mistake going down the same route as you are and it's just a pity that I can't help.
If you're happy to stay at 12-15 h/cap then crack on.
If you want to be a good player, sooner or later you will need to practice and that takes time and effort.


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## Orikoru (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I'm not bitter.
I've just seen so many people making the same mistake going down the same route as you are and it's just a pity that I can't help.
If you're happy to stay at 12-15 h/cap then crack on.
If you want to be a good player, sooner or later you will need to practice and that takes time and effort.
		
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How do you know it's a mistake? If the wedge I've bought fills the gap perfectly then problem solved. No I'm never going to spend hours and hours practising so I take the simplest solution every time. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Edit: I'd be delighted with 12 hcap tbh


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## Deleted member 3432 (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I'm not bitter.
I've just seen so many people making the same mistake going down the same route as you are and it's just a pity that I can't help.
If you're happy to stay at 12-15 h/cap then crack on.
If you want to be a good player, sooner or later you will need to practice and that takes time and effort.
		
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Very wise advice


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## bobmac (Oct 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			How do you know it's a mistake? If the wedge I've bought fills the gap perfectly then problem solved. No I'm never going to spend hours and hours practising so I take the simplest solution every time. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Edit: I'd be delighted with 12 hcap tbh
		
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Now I know you will be happy at 12 h/cap then as I said before, crack on.
I mistakenly thought you wanted to be better than that.
Apologies


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## Papas1982 (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I'm not bitter.
I've just seen so many people making the same mistake going down the same route as you are and it's just a pity that I can't help.
If you're happy to stay at 12-15 h/cap then crack on.
If you want to be a good player, sooner or later you will need to practice and that takes time and effort.
		
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If youâ€™ve got a fail safe way for me to get to single figures Iâ€™ve got plenty of free time to practice ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


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