# Shermans....... A man in need of help!



## Oddsocks (Oct 8, 2012)

Recent the golf has been going pretty solid, average shooting of 34/35/36 still with the odd blob so overly pretty solid, went to the range today and boom, out of no where MASSIVE shanks... Lads, what's going wrong!:angry:

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...1-BF0E-8997ED658151-4121-000003906C0427E4.mp4

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...8-9F3D-7148757DED6B-4121-0000039092B1048E.mp4

A new pro at the range has suggested too much movement on thruway back with too low a finish, he gave a few drills that were night and day better, but I'm trying to see other than all fluidity what is wrong, please feel Freetown draw lines etc and any help is more than appreciated 

Cheers


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## jeardley (Oct 8, 2012)

You're taking the club back too far inside mate, resulting in a loopy over the top move.
You need to get back on plane.

Take the club back more on your toe line so when paralell to the floor the butt end is pointing 
at the target (not well right of it)

At nine o'clock you plane needs to be a bit more upright i.e butt end pointing more towards the ball
or a bit inside it.

this should help you get the downswing on a more in to out path.

I only know this because this was the exact same reason i was shanking.

hope it helps.


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## jeardley (Oct 8, 2012)

Also a bit of early extension in there aswell... try this drill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li2pQOSlrYk


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## power fade (Oct 8, 2012)

Had the same thing happen to me few months back, tended to happen at range and not on course oddly enough. Like jeardley said with taking club back inside - i was advised to keep the clubhead facing ball for as long as possible to prevent this.

I had it bad for a couple of weeks and tried everything incl uding standing further away, lining up with the toe of the club for a bit. Also tried putting a headcover under each arm to keep connection between arms and body. Tried keeping weight on my heels (didnt work).

Got over it by taking half swings and getting the confidence of hitting the sweetspot and then move to 3/4 to full.

Now i dont even think about it - at least till i read your post


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## brendy (Oct 8, 2012)

im no expert (no laughing at the back) But I have suffered for a few years with the shanks on a half shot, partly as the face was so shut.
This speaks frame says a lot to me.


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## Oddsocks (Oct 8, 2012)

Cheers lads. What I didn't say was a pro at that range saw what was going on, and gave a few pointers,

Address the ball at what is a positive impact position, right heal up and knee bent, shaft with positive lean and a square face, hit half shots, the 2/3's, then 3/4's all starting from this perfect attack position

It did work but I was more curious as there are always other drills out there. I have a lesson booked for Friday so hopefully the old swing will surface by then :thup:

Any other suggestions are welcomed


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## patricks148 (Oct 8, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



			Cheers lads. What I didn't say was a pro at that range saw what was going on, and gave a few pointers,

Address the ball at what is a positive impact position, right heal up and knee bent, shaft with positive lean and a square face, hit half shots, the 2/3's, then 3/4's all starting from this perfect attack position

It did work but I was more curious as there are always other drills out there. I have a lesson booked for Friday so hopefully the old swing will surface by then :thup:

Any other suggestions are welcomed
		
Click to expand...

Have you ever thought of taking up crown green bowls?


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## Wolfman (Oct 8, 2012)

Your weight looks like its a bit on the back heels so on the downswing you are moving on to your toes slightly hence the Shermans

If your weight is on the balls of the feet you should stay steady

You also are a bit flat on swing plane and as mentioned club face is odd at top ?

I now try to check that if at the top i dropped the club it would land on my back shoulder, club face to align with front forearm angle


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## CMAC (Oct 8, 2012)

As most J Arthur's stem from coming too much from the inside, my guy had me trying to hit a small fade and by doing so I was getting the club coming in from a better angle, takes a good few shots to get it back and you expect a Sherman each time, persevere and it will come good again quickly.


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## power fade (Oct 8, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



			Cheers lads. What I didn't say was a pro at that range saw what was going on, and gave a few pointers,

Address the ball at what is a positive impact position, right heal up and knee bent, shaft with positive lean and a square face, hit half shots, the 2/3's, then 3/4's all starting from this perfect attack position

It did work but I was more curious as there are always other drills out there. I have a lesson booked for Friday so hopefully the old swing will surface by then :thup:

Any other suggestions are welcomed
		
Click to expand...

Another drill i used in range was to push matt hard against wall of bay then position the golf ball just inside the wall and play from there without hitting the dividing wall - guess it wouldnt work in all ranges - you could always place a 2nd ball above your target ball as an alternative


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## Oddsocks (Oct 8, 2012)

Wolfman said:



*Your weight looks like its a bit on the back heels so on the downswing you are moving on to your toes slightly hence the Shermans

If your weight is on the balls of the feet you should stay steady

You also are a bit flat on swing plane and as mentioned club face is odd at top ?*

I now try to check that if at the top i dropped the club it would land on my back shoulder, club face to align with front forearm angle
		
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Now two interesting points here.

1) weight, yes as a rule my weight is always on my heels, I've never been told otherwise in the 20+ lessons I've had, what's funny is on certain shots I do feel my weight shift to my balls of my feet, so this is definitely and area to look at!:thup:

2) flat plane / shut at the top. I've been struggling with some common faults for the last two seasons which could logically lead to the shermans!

A) strong right hand, this apparently in turn forces a flatter swing plane
B) the strong hand coupled with flat swing plane forces me to come from the inside
C) coming from the inside forces a few possible outcomes, pushes, hooks, shermans or slices if I hold off release in order to try and rescue.

Would seem a lot of the fault could stem from the right hand getting strong...... Again!:clap:


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## jeardley (Oct 8, 2012)

Have a look how much your hips move toward the ball....

Address position....







And impact position is a good few inches towards the ball.


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## Wolfman (Oct 8, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



			Now two interesting points here.

1) weight, yes as a rule my weight is always on my heels, I've never been told otherwise in the 20+ lessons I've had, what's funny is on certain shots I do feel my weight shift to my balls of my feet, so this is definitely and area to look at!:thup:

2) flat plane / shut at the top. I've been struggling with some common faults for the last two seasons which could logically lead to the shermans!

A) strong right hand, this apparently in turn forces a flatter swing plane
B) the strong hand coupled with flat swing plane forces me to come from the inside
C) coming from the inside forces a few possible outcomes, pushes, hooks, shermans or slices if I hold off release in order to try and rescue.

Would seem a lot of the fault could stem from the right hand getting strong...... Again!:clap:
		
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I am sure its the weight moving to your toes, classic reason for the bad shot, you move approx 1" and its a done deal

When you are on your heels you will only move in one direction forwards !

Try it and tell me the result, weight more balls / toes than heels


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## Oddsocks (Oct 8, 2012)

jeardley said:



			And impact position is a good few inches towards the ball.






Click to expand...

This pic is perfect, it shows no hip turn and a shed load of movement... Perfik Rodney, I've stopped turning and gone back to sliding, I can fix that no probs :thup:


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## Oddsocks (Oct 8, 2012)

Wolfman said:



			I am sure its the weight moving to your toes, classic reason for the bad shot, you move approx 1" and its a done deal

When you are on your heels you will only move in one direction forwards !

Try it and tell me the result, weight more balls / toes than heels
		
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Will do :thup:


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## jeardley (Oct 8, 2012)

That's the ticket mate... Clear that left hip whilst maintaining your spine angle throughout the shot and bingo 

Let us know how you get on


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## Oddsocks (Oct 8, 2012)

The impact bag could be handy too , cheers again fellers!


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## patricks148 (Oct 8, 2012)

so you won't be taking up bowls then?


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## Oddsocks (Oct 8, 2012)

Maybe as a second sport


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## chrisd (Oct 8, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



			Maybe as a second sport 

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Would you like my input OS??


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## Mattyboy (Oct 8, 2012)

Bazza, I am steering clear of that bay for a while - just in case I catch a dose (of the Shermans) you have left there!:ears:


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## Oddsocks (Oct 9, 2012)

chrisd said:



			Would you like my input OS??
		
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Yeah why not, it's not like you to hold back anyway lol


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## Oddsocks (Oct 9, 2012)

Mattyboy said:



			Bazza, I am steering clear of that bay for a while - just in case I catch a dose (of the Shermans) you have left there!:ears:
		
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Don't panic matty, they made me bleach it, it's clean I tell ya!


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## Mattyboy (Oct 9, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



			Don't panic matty, they made me bleach it, it's clean I tell ya!
		
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Phew!

While your struggling it would be a good time for a game mes thinks!


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## Oddsocks (Oct 9, 2012)

Mattyboy said:



			Phew!

While your struggling it would be a good time for a game mes thinks!
		
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Well unfortunately for you it was a 24hr bug, off to farleigh range at am today complete with 200 balls, armed with the knowledge of this place and a bag full of stubbornness they never stood a chance, 

Weight on toes (not heels), grip neutral, swing plane steeper.........FIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Still a little high on the ball flight, but that's Fridays lesson objective, but into a cold head wind 8i dropping at 140, 6i about 160, 4i about 175/180, 2h carrying 200 and driver about 235 ish.........

Woud like to thank the doctors of the forum for their treatment, vids to come!


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## Oddsocks (Oct 9, 2012)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...9B-B432-0DB9C90B32E9-772-0000006C8E9C58F6.mp4

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...3A-BBD8-F2F885255C21-772-0000006D5C440B26.mp4

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...C1-8DAE-B2DA8E304226-772-0000006D8E61532E.mp4


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## john0 (Oct 9, 2012)

After watching the 'before' and 'after' videos I have only 1 comment to make........ Do you not have any other T-shirts?


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## Dodger (Oct 9, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...9B-B432-0DB9C90B32E9-772-0000006C8E9C58F6.mp4

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...3A-BBD8-F2F885255C21-772-0000006D5C440B26.mp4

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...C1-8DAE-B2DA8E304226-772-0000006D8E61532E.mp4

Click to expand...

A bit of a David Drysdale look about you!


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## Oddsocks (Oct 9, 2012)

john0 said:



			After watching the 'before' and 'after' videos I have only 1 comment to make........ Do you not have any other T-shirts? 

Click to expand...

Cheek!


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## Wolfman (Oct 9, 2012)

Looks better well done

Keep an eye on the swing plane still a little flat but thats not a major thing


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## Oddsocks (Oct 9, 2012)

I did notice its still a touch flat, I want to work on compression so steepness should come with that hopefully. Tell ya one thing 250 balls yesturday and roughly the same today, I'm shot to bits!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2012)

My mate Sundance had an outbreak of these at the weekend. Saw him trying to find a cure on Sunda and he's another who looked to be moving forward on the way down onto the toes


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## SocketRocket (Oct 9, 2012)

A bit late into the thread but I would suggest the problem is where you fan the club open to the inside in the takeaway and then do not get it back square into impact, this lags the hozel into the ball.

All the other things are symptoms of this.  Your brain knows the face is wide open and makes various adjustments to your posture to try and recover the shot.  Take the club back to the halfway position without any wrist hinge or forearm roll.


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## Lump (Oct 10, 2012)

I suffer from lasting bouts of the shanks. Takes a while to not think about them after one, even more so on the course. I seem to hit most shanks with my 52* Wedge. What I do is to concentrate on the take away going back nice and square and then on the downswing to only concentrate on the contact and not where the ball will be heading.

My little drill for building back up confidence is to stand with my feet together and swing as normal. I find it very hard to shank while doing this.


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## JustOne (Oct 10, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



			Recent the golf has been going pretty solid, average shooting of 34/35/36 still with the odd blob so overly pretty solid, went to the range today and boom, out of no where MASSIVE shanks... Lads, what's going wrong!:angry:

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...1-BF0E-8997ED658151-4121-000003906C0427E4.mp4

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums...8-9F3D-7148757DED6B-4121-0000039092B1048E.mp4

Click to expand...


WOW!!


The second one is a flippin' *BEAUTY*!!!! 

:rofl:


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## duncan mackie (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm with SocketR - the killer happens almost immediately  on the back swing when you fan the club head inside with the wrists then make your turn

I would also suggest that there's too much unfocussed 'swinging' in the vids, so you probably do this both on the range and the course. Never make such movements that aren't part of your intended swing or you are j likely to duplicate them in the swing.


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## Octagon (Oct 11, 2012)

yep look how closed your club face is at the top, its almost pointing straight up. Very shallow looking back swing, I think its a problem with your takeaway, have a look at this from Tom Watson http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-10/tom-watson-takeaway. The shermans come from a closed club face not open.


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## JustOne (Oct 11, 2012)

I might aswell chip in......

You are simply swinging the club down FAR TOO MUCH outside the line... here's a pic (if it works)....








as you should be able to see above - there's no way you're going to get anything other than the hosel to the ball.

The question is WHY is that happening? and I don't think it has a sausage to do with what is happening with your clubface at the top of your backswing.... it's the downswing, and unfortunately it could be one of many things (poor weight shift, hands leaving the body, lazy left shoulder, right hip coming out too much) or a combination of many little things (which is why the shanks crop up for all types of players). What you need to ask (or resolve) is why is the clubhead coming so far outside the line when it's still 6" from the ball. My GUESS is that your not turning your upper body to the left enough whilst driving the hips... eg you're trying to steer your swing with your arms/wrists and your timing has simply gone to pot. The swing is driven by the body, you look like you're just trying to hit the ball with your arms. Your plane is pretty flat so a drill I'd suggest is actually address the ball with your clubface OUTSIDE the ball or with the ball sitting right by the hosel (so you're definitely going to shank it) then get the feeling of re-routing the club to the inside of the ball on the way down, that might mean you feel like you take the club away a little steeper and get the hands in a little tighter to your crutch on the way down.

Hope that helps... certainly the picture should give you a feel of what's going on.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 11, 2012)

Octagon said:



			The shermans come from a closed club face not open.
		
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I dont think so!   Address an iron behind the ball then twist the face open.  See how the hozel is closing on the ball.   Now twist it shut, the hozel is now moving away from it.    The main problem is where the clubface is cutting across the ball from out to in and if the clubface is open then it's Armatige City!!!


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## brendy (Oct 11, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont think so!   Address an iron behind the ball then twist the face open.  See how the hozel is closing on the ball.   Now twist it shut, the hozel is now moving away from it.    The main problem is where the clubface is cutting across the ball from out to in and if the clubface is open then it's Armatige City!!!
		
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Mine were coming from a shut face also (Rorys coach did indeed get me the fix).


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## Oddsocks (Oct 11, 2012)

Well just one is pretty much spot on with he's diagnosis, I hit the range Tuesday night and my old pro had a quick look,

Grip - slightly slight strong with left hand but nothing major 
Back swing - ever so slightly flat but neutral at the top

Cue problems - apparently my hip turn is a little late which forces the hands to leave the body, he got me back about an inch further from the ball which gave me a bit more room. A good drill was to set up two balls, one outside and one inside, set up to the ball further away but hit the ball on the inside, 30 balls later things felt alot better.


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## Wolfman (Oct 11, 2012)

Ok if that works, i am still sure your weight was badly balanced and you were leaning on your toes at impact

Hope things improve if not sack that golf pro !


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## Oddsocks (Oct 12, 2012)

Wolfman, when I saw the pro I was already conscious of the weight issue, so I reckon this is why he didn't pick up on it. :thup:


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## JustOne (Oct 12, 2012)

Octagon said:
			
		


			The shermans come from a closed club face not open.
		
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SocketRocket said:



			I dont think so!   Address an iron behind the ball then twist the face open.  See how the hozel is closing on the ball.   Now twist it shut, the hozel is now moving away from it.    The main problem is where the clubface is cutting across the ball from out to in and if the clubface is open then it's Armatige City!!!
		
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The majority of shanks DO come with a closed clubface because the majority of golfers swing out-to-in (with the clubface pointing left of target) although, that said, the clubface isn't the cause.... the club moving away (outwards) from the intended downward path is the cause.


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## Oddsocks (Oct 12, 2012)

JO, check your PM's..... i have a niggling feeling ........


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