# On Friday, I took the Aimpoint Express course......



## MendieGK (Mar 23, 2015)

And i loved it.


Dont understand the negativity associated with it TBH. 

making a read is considerably quicker than someone going through a normal process, and i was amazed at home accurate it was.

Admittedly, its something you need to learn to refine to your calibration, but i will certainly be putting it to use.

Now, i just need to find a consistent putting stroke!!


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## CMAC (Mar 23, 2015)

oh wait till I nip out


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## bluewolf (Mar 23, 2015)

Sounds good mate. Hope it works for you. I'll be keeping an eye on your putting stats on GG.


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## MendieGK (Mar 23, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Sounds good mate. Hope it works for you. I'll be keeping an eye on your putting stats on GG.
		
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HAHA. No hiding.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 23, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			And i loved it.


Dont understand the negativity associated with it TBH. 

making a read is considerably quicker than someone going through a normal process, and i was amazed at home accurate it was.

Admittedly, its something you need to learn to refine to your calibration, but i will certainly be putting it to use.

Now, i just need to find a consistent putting stroke!!

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I watched Homer doing it on the 18th at Blackmoor and he must of slowed it down then.
He then 3 putted


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2015)

Poulter started the year doing it 

Seems to have stopped looking at the last couple of comps 

They said Scott had stopped doing it whilst he changed to the new putter.


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## richart (Mar 23, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			And i loved it.


Dont understand the negativity associated with it TBH. 

making a read is considerably quicker than someone going through a normal process, and i was amazed at home accurate it was.

Admittedly, its something you need to learn to refine to your calibration, but i will certainly be putting it to use.

Now, i just need to find a consistent putting stroke!!

Click to expand...

 Demonstration on the practice putting green at West Hill.:thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 23, 2015)

I don't think it's negativity, more just people trying to understand why someone would pay to learn something that is common sense. 

I played with someone last week that uses it. When I spoke to them and explained how I read greens, they said 'yep, that pretty much sums it up!'

Didn't cost me a penny


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## Foxholer (Mar 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...
They said Scott had stopped doing it whilst he changed to the new putter.
		
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Certainly seen him using it in the last couple of tournaments - with the 'normal' putter.


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## MendieGK (Mar 23, 2015)

richart said:



			Demonstration on the practice putting green at West Hill.:thup:
		
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Of how not to putt?

The course will be a called 'how to correctly line up your 15ft putt for double bogey, The memoirs of Mendie GK'


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## richart (Mar 23, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I don't think it's negativity, more just people trying to understand why someone would pay to learn something that is common sense. 

I played with someone last week that uses it. When I spoke to them and explained how I read greens, they said 'yep, that pretty much sums it up!'

Didn't cost me a penny  

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 Yes but you missed every putt and they holed all their's.


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## MendieGK (Mar 23, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I don't think it's negativity, more just people trying to understand why someone would pay to learn something that is common sense. 

I played with someone last week that uses it. When I spoke to them and explained how I read greens, they said 'yep, that pretty much sums it up!'

Didn't cost me a penny  

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I agree with this, that it is pretty much common sense, but for someone that has never read putts with their feet before, it took the scientific element of it for me to 'get it'


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 23, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			I agree with this, that it is pretty much common sense, but for someone that has never *read putts with their feet* before, it took the scientific element of it for me to 'get it'
		
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This is the interesting bit. Nobody taught me that, it's just something I've always done and it feels natural to me. When I stand over a putt I can feel if my weight is being pushed towards my toes or heels and I then adjust accordingly.

Still miss though*

*just getting that bit in before Richard


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## pokerjoke (Mar 23, 2015)

drive4show said:



			This is the interesting bit. Nobody taught me that, it's just something I've always done and it feels natural to me. When I stand over a putt I can feel if my weight is being pushed towards my toes or heels and I then adjust accordingly.

Still miss though*

Have you tried it with your chipping:thup:
		
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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 23, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Have you tried it with your chipping:thup:
		
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Chipping is different Tony. Putts can go uphill, downhill, sideways.

My chipping is only going one way........downhill


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## richart (Mar 23, 2015)

richart said:



			Yes but you missed every putt and they holed all their's.

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drive4show said:



			This is the interesting bit. Nobody taught me that, it's just something I've always done and it feels natural to me. When I stand over a putt I can feel if my weight is being pushed towards my toes or heels and I then adjust accordingly.

Still miss though*

*just getting that bit in before Richard  

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 Too late my friend. Too late.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 23, 2015)

richart said:



			Too late my friend. Too late.
		
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I do have an ignore button you know................


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I do have an ignore button you know................ 

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Would you miss it short like the chips


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 23, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			And i loved it.


Dont understand the negativity associated with it TBH. 

making a read is considerably quicker than someone going through a normal process, and i was amazed at home accurate it was.

Admittedly, its something you need to learn to refine to your calibration, but i will certainly be putting it to use.

Now, i just need to find a consistent putting stroke!!

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Good on you, hope it works, I'm all for anything that helps and improves an individual.


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## 3565 (Mar 23, 2015)

As an Aimpointer for the past 3yrs using mid point and now Express I wish you luck and welcome to Aimpoint.


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## chrisd (Mar 23, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I don't think it's negativity, more just people trying to understand why someone would pay to learn something that is common sense. 

I played with someone last week that uses it. When I spoke to them and explained how I read greens, they said 'yep, that pretty much sums it up!'

Didn't cost me a penny  

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Like to share the knowledge Gordon?


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## Crow (Mar 23, 2015)

drive4show said:



			This is the interesting bit. Nobody taught me that, it's just something I've always done and it feels natural to me. *When I stand over a putt I can feel if my weight is being pushed towards my toes or heels and I then adjust accordingly.*

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Is that how Aimpoint works?

There must be something wrong with my feet then as unless there's a good slope I can't feel my weight being pushed forwards or backwards, or sideways for that matter.
At the sort of slope I'd need it's obvious where the break is.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 23, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Like to share the knowledge Gordon?
		
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Certainly mate.

It's all really basic stuff. Have a look at the line from behind the ball as normal to gauge the line then I address the ball as normal and I can feel if my weight is naturally falling onto my toes (left to right break) or towards my heels (right to left break). Also have a look at the general contours of the green to see which side is higher as that will give a  indication of slope as well. Finally, the last thing to do is look at the hole and see if one side is higher than the other, if so you will be able to judge which way the ball will move at the holeside.

Then take your stance and ............................miss  

There you go......Drivepoint


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## chillicon (Mar 23, 2015)

Little wonder the pros take so long on the greens. I watched stenson take over a minute to line up a flat, straight 2ft putt yesterday.


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## chrisd (Mar 23, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Certainly mate.

It's all really basic stuff. Have a look at the line from behind the ball as normal to gauge the line then I address the ball as normal and I can feel if my weight is naturally falling onto my toes (left to right break) or towards my heels (right to left break). Also have a look at the general contours of the green to see which side is higher as that will give a  indication of slope as well. Finally, the last thing to do is look at the hole and see if one side is higher than the other, if so you will be able to judge which way the ball will move at the holeside.

Then take your stance and ............................miss  

There you go......Drivepoint  

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Sounds great mate ......... will I live that long??


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## 3565 (Mar 23, 2015)

Crow said:



*Is that how Aimpoint works*?

There must be something wrong with my feet then as unless there's a good slope I can't feel my weight being pushed forwards or backwards, or sideways for that matter.
At the sort of slope I'd need it's obvious where the break is.
		
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Yes and no, not the way he describes it anyway.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 23, 2015)

I think I putted well at Blackmoor with 35 putts and I wasn't the only one to three putt 18 from where I was. That stemmed from a poor choice to go aerial with the approach and not low and running. Those that played with me will know that most of my putts were good reads and many had a change to go in and I made three or four ones from 6-12 feet with an Aimpoint read. 

I learned through the midpoint method but have been able to use the knowledge on how Aimpoint works to start to use the express method with a degree of certainty and consistency. Gave Sawtooth a quick description on the 6th at Royal Ascot on Saturday, gave him my express read and it was perfect. All that was lacking was the pace on the putt to get it to the hole. 

It does work, both midpoint and express and I'm happy to use it. Whether others believe it's hocus pocus or not is personal opinion but one thing I will say unequivocally is that it does not slow pace of play. Blackmoor proved that and I had a good read inside ten seconds without having to pace all around the green or look at the line from behind or the other side of the hole.


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 23, 2015)

We had it at ours today and every time I looked towards the practice putting green where it was being conducted, I never saw even one putt drop :mmm:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 23, 2015)

Crow said:



			Is that how Aimpoint works?

There must be something wrong with my feet then as unless there's a good slope I can't feel my weight being pushed forwards or backwards, or sideways for that matter.
At the sort of slope I'd need it's obvious where the break is.
		
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I'm not describing Aimpoint, that isn't something I've tried. What I'm describing is Drivepoint* which is purely how I assess my putts.

*TM Registered If anyone wants to learn it, send me a cheque for Â£999.99 and I'll send you a dodgy chart knocked up on my PC.


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## Sir Scoop-A-Lot (Mar 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm not describing Aimpoint, that isn't something I've tried. What I'm describing is Drivepoint* which is purely how I assess my putts.

*TM Registered If anyone wants to learn it, send me a cheque for Â£999.99 and I'll send you a dodgy chart knocked up on my PC.
		
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SOLD! Do you take Western Union? And can I have your bank details. I live in Africa and will need you to send me the details of your personal details too to authorise the transaction with my bank.  :thup:


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## MendieGK (Mar 24, 2015)

Sir Scoop-A-Lot said:



			SOLD! Do you take Western Union? And can I have your bank details. I live in Africa and will need you to send me the details of your personal details too to authorise the transaction with my bank.  :thup:
		
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## CMAC (Mar 24, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



*I think I putted well at Blackmoor with 35 putts* and I wasn't the only one to three putt 18 from where I was. That stemmed from a poor choice to go aerial with the approach and not low and running. Those that played with me will know that most of my putts were good reads and many had a change to go in and I made three or four ones from 6-12 feet with an Aimpoint read. 

I learned through the midpoint method but have been able to use the knowledge on how Aimpoint works to start to use the express method with a degree of certainty and consistency. Gave Sawtooth a quick description on the 6th at Royal Ascot on Saturday, gave him my express read and it was perfect. All that was lacking was the pace on the putt to get it to the hole. 

It does work, both midpoint and express and I'm happy to use it. *Whether others believe it's hocus pocus or not is personal opinion* but one thing I will say unequivocally is that it does not slow pace of play. Blackmoor proved that and I had a good read inside ten seconds without having to pace all around the green or look at the line from behind or the other side of the hole.
		
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personal opinion can be taken right out the equation with facts. The facts tell me all I need to know.

I see aimpoint (and anything similar thats different to common sense) as a placebo effect. If using your 'lucky' ball marker or touching your left eyebrow before a putt, or using aimpoint actually _works for you_ then who is anyone to poo poo it in favour of their own method.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2015)

CMAC said:



			personal opinion can be taken right out the equation with facts. The facts tell me all I need to know.

I see aimpoint (and anything similar thats different to common sense) as a placebo effect. If using your 'lucky' ball marker or touching your left eyebrow before a putt, or using aimpoint actually _works for you_ then who is anyone to poo poo it in favour of their own method.
		
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And what are the facts? My putting is averaging around the 31.5 putt mark (31.67 to be accurate for 2015) which is pretty good for a 12 handicapper. I must have done something right as I qualified on the day and came second overall. You don't like Aimpoint and have made that abundantly clear on *every* Aimpoint thread without ever having taken the trouble to try it. If you want to think of it as placebo, nonsense or whatever then fine, that's your perogative. I know it's working as the improved putting stats year on year back that up and I am getting results on the course


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## CMAC (Mar 24, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And what are the facts? My putting is averaging around the 31.5 putt mark (31.67 to be accurate for 2015) which is pretty good for a 12 handicapper. I must have done something right as I qualified on the day and came second overall. You don't like Aimpoint and have made that abundantly clear on *every* Aimpoint thread without ever having taken the trouble to try it. If you want to think of it as placebo, nonsense or whatever then fine, that's your perogative. I know it's working as the improved putting stats year on year back that up and I am getting results on the course
		
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Christ, I was actually helping you out. You are one sensitive soul arent you!


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2015)

It's not a placebo effect when their make of driver comes out with a new one and the adverts claiming wonderful accuracy and longest driver yet and rush out to TRY one!


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## chrisd (Mar 24, 2015)

Gt



HomerJSimpson said:



			And what are the facts? My putting is averaging around the 31.5 putt mark (31.67 to be accurate for 2015) which is pretty good for a 12 handicapper. I must have done something right as I qualified on the day and came second overall. You don't like Aimpoint and have made that abundantly clear on *every* Aimpoint thread without ever having taken the trouble to try it. If you want to think of it as placebo, nonsense or whatever then fine, that's your perogative. I know it's working as the improved putting stats year on year back that up and I am getting results on the course
		
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Just a question HJS, can you be sure that the better putting figures isn't down to better chipping?


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## pokerjoke (Mar 24, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Gt

Just a question HJS, can you be sure that the better putting figures isn't down to better chipping?
		
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This is a very good point,not just for Homer.
Homer did mention his chipping was getting better so you could be right.
Chipping closer and having shorter putts will improve putting stats considerably.


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## Khamelion (Mar 24, 2015)

Not really sure what Aimpoint is, or what the other incarnations of it are, nor do I really want to know. When it comes to putting, be it a bounce game or comp, I'm not a pro playing for thousands, so walking 15 yards beyond the cup and then in large arc to behind my ball makes no difference. As for reading the green with your feet, feeling where you weight lies, how do you go about reading the borrows and rises along the line, or am I missing something fundamental?

After struggling with putting a bit last year, I've found that having a look at the green as your approach it, tells you 80% of what you need to know, the last 20% is getting behind the ball and looking for a little mark 1 foot in front of the ball, where you want the ball to roll over. The rest is down to pace.


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## sawtooth (Mar 25, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think I putted well at Blackmoor with 35 putts and *I wasn't the only one to three putt 18 from where I was*. That stemmed from a poor choice to go aerial with the approach and not low and running. Those that played with me will know that most of my putts were good reads and many had a change to go in and I made three or four ones from 6-12 feet with an Aimpoint read. 

I learned through the midpoint method but have been able to use the knowledge on how Aimpoint works to start to use the express method with a degree of certainty and consistency. Gave Sawtooth a quick description on the 6th at Royal Ascot on Saturday, gave him my express read and it was perfect. *All that was lacking was the pace on the putt to get it to the hole*. 

It does work, both midpoint and express and I'm happy to use it. Whether others believe it's hocus pocus or not is personal opinion but one thing I will say unequivocally is that it does not slow pace of play. Blackmoor proved that and I had a good read inside ten seconds without having to pace all around the green or look at the line from behind or the other side of the hole.
		
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Yep I 3 putted the 18th after hitting the green in regulation.

Sadly it will take a bit more than Aimpoint to help my putting game out!  I do like the concept though and providing it doesnt slow up play too much (and it works of course) then it can only be a good thing. Need to do some more digging on this.

Homer, you scored 36 points on Saturday, putting pretty solid I would say. :thup:


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## Robobum (Mar 25, 2015)

Here we go again. 

If I used Aimpoint and was so convinced it worked, I'd just sit back with a nice big cup of smugness in the knowledge that I had an advantage over those that doubt it.

Don't feel duty bound to defend it chaps, you're the winners here............aren't you?


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## ArnoldArmChewer (Mar 25, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Gt

Just a question HJS, can you be sure that the better putting figures isn't down to better chipping?
		
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My GIR stats are generally pants, but my season long putting stats are below my h/c average, this is mainly down to being able to get up and down quite regularly, Sunday was an extreme example, played really poorly scored 30 points but had 27 putts (from on the greens).

If I hit more GIR,  I am guessing my putting stats will go up.


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## Imurg (Mar 25, 2015)

ArnoldArmChewer said:



			My GIR stats are generally pants, but my season long putting stats are below my h/c average, this is mainly down to being able to get up and down quite regularly, Sunday was an extreme example, played really poorly scored 30 points but had 27 putts (from on the greens).

If I hit more GIR,  I am guessing my putting stats will go up.
		
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This is where the number of putts stat falls down.
In isolation its almost worthless
Last week I had 32 putts - 2 more than my average per round.
But I hit 12 GIR. Sunk 3 birdies but those extra GIR lead to those couple of extra putts.
Putts per GIR or actual distance of putts holed is more useful.


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## MendieGK (Mar 25, 2015)

Imurg said:



			This is where the number of putts stat falls down.
In isolation its almost worthless
Last week I had 32 putts - 2 more than my average per round.
But I hit 12 GIR. Sunk 3 birdies but those extra GIR lead to those couple of extra putts.
Putts per GIR or actual distance of putts holed is more useful.
		
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As a new user of aimpoint i would say - 

Do i expect it to have a massive improvement on my putting? probably not. Not in isolation anyway as my stroke is too inconsistent, so i can read the putt as well as i like but a number of variables have to happen for it to go in. 

50th in PGA tour putting stats from 15-20 ft only makes slightly more than 20% of their putts! 

However, will it enable me to make a consistent read and be confident of the line absolutely. 

Without trying to be controversial here - If a number of tour players are using it - including Lydia Ko who basically makes every putt she looks at, then there is clearly some merit in it.

As per usual on here, too many people take the 'knock it before you have tried it approach' whilst sitting there struggling to break 80 every week. 

Personally, i am always looking for ways to improve so why wouldnt you give it a go?


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## virtuocity (Mar 25, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			Personally, i am always looking for ways to improve so why wouldnt you give it a go?
		
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I would say that there are a few of reasons why Aimpoint is a contentious issue:

1.  The 'people have been putting for 10000 years without Aimpoint' argument

2.  The 'why do you want to confuse matters' approach of golfers who just take the club back, then through Â©drive4show

3.  The fact that those who do the course pay good money for it and naturally aren't too keen to train others who haven't paid

4.  It causes slow play (a complete myth)

5.  You look a bit silly (fair play)

6.  It still involves skill, luck and an ability to judge pace

I like Aimpoint, and use it especially when there are heavy breaks.  More significant, I enjoy learning new techniques, discussing golf mechanics and swings- sometimes more than actually practicing them, so the course whetted my appetite (and therefore was value for money).  There will always be golfers who don't share this view (and that's absolutely fine).  You only need to do a few searches for threads I've started on here which have racked up over a dozen pages where I look to open discussion about swing mechanics, such as 'release', 'stack and tilt', 'forearm rotation', 'arm vs shaft plane' with half of the responses being "Why do you want to think about that?  You're thinking too much".  Gareth is also good at invoking these kind of responses.

Ultimately, I try to live my life in a way where I don't criticise until I have built up enough knowledge on which I can offer an informed critique.  I would feel quite uncomfortable adopting the 'pish, pash, posh' line for every new swing theory or technique without at least dipping my toe in the water (new ball flight laws anyone?).


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## CMAC (Mar 25, 2015)

virtuocity said:



			I would say that there are a few of reasons why Aimpoint is a contentious issue:

1.  The 'people have been putting for 10000 years without Aimpoint' argument

2.  The 'why do you want to confuse matters' approach of golfers who just take the club back, then through Â©drive4show

3.  The fact that those who do the course pay good money for it and naturally aren't too keen to train others who haven't paid

4.  It causes slow play (a complete myth)

5.  You look a bit silly (fair play)

6.  It still involves skill, luck and an ability to judge pace

I like Aimpoint, and use it especially when there are heavy breaks.  More significant, I enjoy learning new techniques, discussing golf mechanics and swings- sometimes more than actually practicing them, so the course whetted my appetite (and therefore was value for money).  There will always be golfers who don't share this view (and that's absolutely fine).  You only need to do a few searches for threads I've started on here which have racked up over a dozen pages where I look to open discussion about swing mechanics, such as 'release', 'stack and tilt', 'forearm rotation', 'arm vs shaft plane' with half of the responses being "Why do you want to think about that?  You're thinking too much".  Gareth is also good at invoking these kind of responses.

Ultimately, I try to live my life in a way where I don't criticise until I have built up enough knowledge on which I can offer an informed critique.  I would feel quite uncomfortable adopting the 'pish, pash, posh' line for every new swing theory or technique without at least dipping my toe in the water (new ball flight laws anyone?).
		
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totally disagree with #3

I've had lots of lessons which I've paid good money for and I am more than happy to impart any gleaned knowledge, as is anyone I have ever known or played with.

Maybe aimpoint people are a different breed however:mmm:


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## virtuocity (Mar 25, 2015)

CMAC said:



			Maybe aimpoint people are a different breed however:mmm:
		
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From my experience, I would agree that there is a stark difference between the willingness to share how a pro solved their slice (maybe, because there's 100 different ways and feels) and sharing an entire putting 'system'.


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## MendieGK (Mar 25, 2015)

virtuocity said:



			From my experience, I would agree that there is a stark difference between the willingness to share how a pro solved their slice (maybe, because there's 100 different ways and feels) and sharing an entire putting 'system'.
		
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In all seriousness, its stupidly easy to learn.


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## bladeplayer (Mar 25, 2015)

Like most things Golf , does it really matter if it works in general ? 


Nope , if it works for u . use it ..!!!


I am a firm believer that at our level stats are rubbish tho .. what you sign for is all thats real and some days even that doesnt reflect how you have played


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## CMAC (Mar 25, 2015)

virtuocity said:



			From my experience, I would agree that there is a stark difference between the willingness to share how a pro solved their slice (maybe, because there's 100 different ways and feels) and sharing an entire putting 'system'.
		
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boils down to the same thing- you are either selfish or not.


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2015)

virtuocity said:



			I would say that there are a few of reasons why Aimpoint is a contentious issue:

1.  The 'people have been putting for 10000 years without Aimpoint' argument

2.  The 'why do you want to confuse matters' approach of golfers who just take the club back, then through Â©drive4show

3.  The fact that those who do the course pay good money for it and naturally aren't too keen to train others who haven't paid

4.  It causes slow play (a complete myth)

5.  You look a bit silly (fair play)

6.  It still involves skill, luck and an ability to judge pace

I like Aimpoint, and use it especially when there are heavy breaks.  More significant, I enjoy learning new techniques, discussing golf mechanics and swings- sometimes more than actually practicing them, so the course whetted my appetite (and therefore was value for money).  There will always be golfers who don't share this view (and that's absolutely fine).  You only need to do a few searches for threads I've started on here which have racked up over a dozen pages where I look to open discussion about swing mechanics, such as 'release', 'stack and tilt', 'forearm rotation', 'arm vs shaft plane' with half of the responses being "Why do you want to think about that?  You're thinking too much".  Gareth is also good at invoking these kind of responses.

Ultimately, I try to live my life in a way where* I don't criticise until I have built up enough knowledge on which I can offer an informed critique*.  I would feel quite uncomfortable adopting the 'pish, pash, posh' line for every new swing theory or technique without at least dipping my toe in the water (new ball flight laws anyone?).
		
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Totally agree with that statement. Someone said stop defending, if it works then all is good. its not about defending its about those who are not really informed on either this subject or any others for that matter who can't contribute then to berate those who try something different.


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## SGC001 (Mar 25, 2015)

CMAC said:



			boils down to the same thing- you are either selfish or not.
		
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CMAC said:



			totally disagree with #3

I've had lots of lessons which I've paid good money for and I am more than happy to impart any gleaned knowledge, as is anyone I have ever known or played with.

Maybe aimpoint people are a different breed however:mmm:
		
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I was under the impression it has some form of intellectual rights or copyright protection in place and anyone sharing it unless an authorised instructor of it could be sued.


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## chillicon (Mar 25, 2015)

SGC001 said:



			I was under the impression it has some form of intellectual rights or copyright protection in place and anyone sharing it unless an authorised instructor of it could be sued.
		
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Do you have to sign a non-disclosure contract before doing the course?


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## CMAC (Mar 25, 2015)

SGC001 said:



			I was under the impression it has some form of intellectual rights or copyright protection in place and anyone sharing it unless an authorised instructor of it could be sued.
		
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chillicon said:



			Do you have to sign a non-disclosure contract before doing the course?
		
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now it's getting silly


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## ScienceBoy (Mar 25, 2015)

I love putting and I am always happy to share my method.

1. You only have "control" of a putt to its first break point so find the spot where this happens.

2. Determine the pace needed at this point to hole the putt.

3. Hit a putt to this point with the intended pace.


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## chrisd (Mar 25, 2015)

I've found one flaw in the system!

Having read up on it the idea is to stand on the green and feel the slope in your feet, no matter how little, so you know which way it'll break - not with replaced hips it seems!

I couldn't feel the slope at all!


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## Piece (Mar 26, 2015)

My putting relies on visualising the breaks, nothing at all to do with gravity feel in the shoes! Pick a line and stroke the ball... good luck for those who use it - just not for me.


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

Two questions if someone with Aimpoint knowledge would be so kind??

At what length of putt do you start using the technique?

Say you have a putt of 15ft, the correct read is inside right.......how do you "feel" such minute slope?


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## pokerjoke (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Two questions if someone with Aimpoint knowledge would be so kind??

At what length of putt do you start using the technique?

Say you have a putt of 15ft, the correct read is inside right.......how do you "feel" such minute slope?
		
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15ft 1"


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## MendieGK (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Two questions if someone with Aimpoint knowledge would be so kind??

At what length of putt do you start using the technique?

Say you have a putt of 15ft, the correct read is inside right.......how do you "feel" such minute slope?
		
Click to expand...

From that distance you'd make 1 read half way to the hole. If you saying its inside right, that would be approx 1degree of slope, so 1 finger. 

It's amazingly accurate


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			15ft 1"

Click to expand...

Wouldn't be the first time I could've done with another inch!!


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			From that distance you'd make 1 read half way to the hole. If you saying its inside right, that would be approx 1degree of slope, so 1 finger. 

It's amazingly accurate
		
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Sorry, I mustn't have been clear in the question (or I don't understand what's required!).........

How do you feel that small amount of   right to left slope? Over 15' that's almost flat isn't it?


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Two questions if someone with Aimpoint knowledge would be so kind??

At what length of putt do you start using the technique?

Say you have a putt of 15ft, the correct read is inside right.......how do you "feel" such minute slope?
		
Click to expand...

it depends if your out to ridicule us for paying the extortionate amount of money for what is just common sense after all!!! 

Benefit of doubt to you,  you can use it from 3ft and out. As far as the minute amount you learn through time and doing it, like learning to walk and balance, you trust your feel. The more slope the easier it is, the flatter the green then it does become harder but you can use other things to determine which way it breaks first, then use the system.


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:



			it depends if your out to ridicule us for paying the extortionate amount of money for what is just common sense after all!!! 

Benefit of doubt to you,  you can use it from 3ft and out. As far as the minute amount you learn through time and doing it, like learning to walk and balance, you trust your feel. The more slope the easier it is, the flatter the green then it does become harder but you can use other things to determine which way it breaks first, then use the system.
		
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You can really learn to feel a slope that curves the ball by just 1" over 15'?


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

That would be regarded as a straight putt that amount of break over that distance. If at 15ft on a 1% slope it would be more break then that which would depend on your stimp reading of course.


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:



			That would be regarded as a straight putt that amount of break over that distance. If at 15ft on a 1% slope it would be more break then that which would depend on your stimp reading of course.
		
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But it's not a flat putt. Or does the method predict it will go in left half?

Also, your answer is different to Mendies. Do you use different versions? Express/ midpoint?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			But it's not a flat putt. Or does the method predict it will go in left half?

Also, your answer is different to Mendies. Do you use different versions? Express/ midpoint?
		
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There will be a break but it does depend on the stimp as the quicker the green the bigger that break will be. It would be 1" on say an 8 stimp, maybe 2" on a 9 etc. I still use the mid point read an chart (which is in my locker so I can't check). I have dabbled with the express read and understand the concept but the bigger the slope the more unsure of it I become which is bizarre knowing the midpoint read works so well. I'll be working on it. Suffice to say it does work whichever way you use


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

For it To break only 1" over 15ft I would personally class it as a flat putt. If your eyes are that good at reading minute breaks of that precise amount then you certainly don't need Aimpoint. 

Unfortunately Mendie put degrees instead of per cent which is what you use


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

Ok, so it can't be used until the slope is "judgeable" with your feet.

Cheers


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Ok, so it can't be used until the slope is "judgeable" with your feet.

Cheers
		
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you mean. If you can't feel anything then surely it's a 1% putt unless absolutely straight? Certainly using midpoint (sorry to confuse things slightly) where there's minimal slope the instruction is to read it as 1% based on the stimp for that course


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

Homer, have you not joined the Facebook aimpoint students page?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:



			Homer, have you not joined the Facebook aimpoint students page?
		
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Yes why?


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

Come on chaps, one of you says its flat the other says 1% and complicates it with stimp.

It's NOT a flat putt. It WILL move 1" right to left over the course of 15' when hit at optimum holing pace.

Now if Aimpoint says to treat as flat and it will go in left half, that's fine.


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## tallpaul (Mar 26, 2015)

Aimpoint express read cannot resolve 1" of break over 15'. The minimum break you can read at this distance is 1%. I'm guessing this is equates to around 3 or 4"s of break. Any less and you read it as a straight putt. 

If you are split between reading it as flat or 1%, you should go with the higher read as putt to the high side still has a chance of dropping.


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

tallpaul said:



			Aimpoint express read cannot resolve 1" of break over 15'. The minimum break you can read at this distance is 1%. I'm guessing this is equates to around 3 or 4"s of break. Any less and you read it as a straight putt. 

If you are split between reading it as flat or 1%, you should go with the higher read as putt to the high side still has a chance of dropping.
		
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Thank you.

It's the 3rd different version but one that does make sense.


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Thank you.

It's the 3rd different version but one that does make sense.[/  

Homer uses mid point and at the parameters your stating 15ft 1" break right to left stimp of 8, you'd be putting from an angle of 30degrees. Other words from 5am to the hole for it to break exactly that. From anywhere between 5-7 (where it will then break L-R at 7pm) you would aim straight at the hole and treat it as a straight putt as its not goin to break much. 

And yes you would go with the greater value if your unsure and tallpaul has a good grasp of it if he doesn't do Aimpoint. 

And now wait for it!
		
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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Yes why?
		
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Just wondered if you knew about it that's all.


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:





Robobum said:



			Thank you.

It's the 3rd different version but one that does make sense.[/  

Homer uses mid point and at the parameters your stating 15ft 1" break right to left stimp of 8, you'd be putting from an angle of 30degrees. Other words from 5am to the hole for it to break exactly that. From anywhere between 5-7 (where it will then break L-R at 7pm) you would aim straight at the hole and treat it as a straight putt as its not goin to break much. 

And yes you would go with the greater value if your unsure and tallpaul has a good grasp of it if he doesn't do Aimpoint. 

And now wait for it!
		
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Wait for what?
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:





Robobum said:



			Thank you.

It's the 3rd different version but one that does make sense.[/  

Homer uses mid point and at the parameters your stating 15ft 1" break right to left stimp of 8, you'd be putting from an angle of 30degrees. Other words from 5am to the hole for it to break exactly that. From anywhere between 5-7 (where it will then break L-R at 7pm) you would aim straight at the hole and treat it as a straight putt as its not goin to break much. 

And yes you would go with the greater value if your unsure and tallpaul has a good grasp of it if he doesn't do Aimpoint. 

And now wait for it!
		
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Good explanation. I was trying to point out that it could break and merely that stimp has a big issue. I'm aware that at different angles the chart would indicate a straight putt
		
Click to expand...


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:





3565 said:



			Wait for what?
		
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The ridicule, what else!
		
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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

Is it coming?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm confused now, all this mention of stimp and allowing different degrees or %age depending on speed. I've only ever played a couple of courses that publish the green speed so if you don't have this information, how do you choose your line?


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## Snelly (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Is it coming?
		
Click to expand...

Why would it? This all makes perfect sense. 

Is it a bit like using the Force in Star Wars?  You feel the green through your feet, you empty your mind, trust your feelings (Luke / Homer), let go.....feel the Aimpoint flow through you, just as it flows through everything in the Universe.......

Trust in the power of the Force....bring the head of the putter back with your feelings, visualise your ball going in the hole, use the power of the Force.....
The purity of strike transcends the space time continuum and as you finish the stroke, you open your eyes with joy and hope.......

And wince as you see your ball slide down the left side of the hole.. It must have have been an anomaly in the Force... Maybe Alderaan was obliterated as you wandered around with your arms in the air pointing at closely mown grass?  Or perhaps it was just unnoticed subsidence caused by a Jawa transport or the footmarks of an unruly Taunton?

Don't despair......the Force will be with you. Always.............


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## the smiling assassin (Mar 26, 2015)

Fashion one's own stimp of course.


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Is it coming?
		
Click to expand...

Not at the moment but it's like waiting for a bus, they'll all be arriving soon. &#128514;


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:



			Not at the moment but it's like waiting for a bus, they'll all be arriving soon. &#128514;
		
Click to expand...

And no sooner as I posted...............

Hope he plays golf as good as his story telling.


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## Snelly (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:



			And no sooner as I posted...............

Hope he plays golf as good as his story telling.
		
Click to expand...

Good enough to beat you love.


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm confused now, all this mention of stimp and allowing different degrees or %age depending on speed. I've only ever played a couple of courses that publish the green speed so if you don't have this information, how do you choose your line?
		
Click to expand...

How do YOU choose your line without any of that information? 

Well you could go out and buy a stimp meter yourself, I have one but only used it once, my lounge carpet runs at 10, OR you use the mid point chart to get the stimp, which I also have &#128521;


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Good enough to beat you love.
		
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&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128557;&#128557;&#128557;&#128557;
Side splitting


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

3565 said:



			And no sooner as I posted...............

Hope he plays golf as good as his story telling.
		
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You can just ignore it?

Anyway, so the minimum read would have to be one finger?

Over 15' (using the same example) how much break would that one finger be? (Presuming stimp of 10)


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm confused now, all this mention of stimp and allowing different degrees or %age depending on speed. I've only ever played a couple of courses that publish the green speed so if you don't have this information, how do you choose your line?
		
Click to expand...

Believe there is a chart that can be used to help with the stimp ? Or use a meter but would need the putting green to be like the main greens which is very rare on most golf courses.


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			You can just ignore it?


Anyway, so the minimum read would have to be one finger?

Over 15' (using the same example) how much break would that one finger be? (Presuming stimp of 10)
		
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Same putt at same angle stimp of 10 you would only add an inch as its the angle that makes it break less. So if you can hit your irons to 30 degrees to the pin all day you won't have much break to contend with IF its a single planer green. That inch extra is from the chart read,  the express read you would bend the arm more then you would for the stimp of 8. That's why Scott has his bent so much as the greens are faster, means more break.


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## Odvan (Mar 27, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Why would it? This all makes perfect sense. 

Is it a bit like using the Force in Star Wars?  You feel the green through your feet, you empty your mind, trust your feelings (Luke / Homer), let go.....feel the Aimpoint flow through you, just as it flows through everything in the Universe.......

Trust in the power of the Force....bring the head of the putter back with your feelings, visualise your ball going in the hole, use the power of the Force.....
The purity of strike transcends the space time continuum and as you finish the stroke, you open your eyes with joy and hope.......

And wince as you see your ball slide down the left side of the hole.. It must have have been an anomaly in the Force... Maybe Alderaan was obliterated as you wandered around with your arms in the air pointing at closely mown grass?  Or perhaps it was just unnoticed subsidence caused by a Jawa transport or the footmarks of an unruly Taunton?

Don't despair......the Force will be with you. Always.............
		
Click to expand...

Snelly, you post some proper wind up crap sometimes but I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed that!

Re aimpoint, I wouldn't have a clue but each to their own. No different to a routine practise swing on the tee, or a Keegan twirl (the latter being sooooo annoying). BUT, live and let live for Gods sake.


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## Craigg (Mar 27, 2015)

Good luck to those who use it and feel it's a useful addition to their game. For me, it seems a long winded way of doing what we've been doing for years. Crouch down behind the ball, check the break, pick a mark and hit the ball through your chosen mark. Of course,  as with all putts, this is subject to you actually putting a good stroke on it, the most likely cause of the amateurs putting woes.


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## chillicon (Mar 27, 2015)

Is anyone willing to explain how to do it and post these charts?


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## Foxholer (Mar 30, 2015)

Watching the Ladies PGA from Carlsbad.

Plenty of feet and fingers being used there! Including by Lydia Ko & Stacey Lewis


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## CMAC (Mar 30, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Watching the Ladies PGA from Carlsbad.

Plenty of feet and fingers being used there! Including by Lydia Ko & Stacey Lewis
		
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I've seen that video :smirk:


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 30, 2015)

Today I played with two people who recently had an Aimpoint session. My suspicions that this is nothing more than snake oil sales were confirmed. I walked up to my putts, worked out the lines by myself without any fingers or slopes below my feet guff. I holed more putts than the others did...by a very long way.

I believe that as golfers we're prepared to put our faith in any well-presented mumbo-jumbo if we dare hope it will get us an advantage.

Guys...and girls, if such a panacea existed every golfer in the world would've bought in to the concept, but as it actually doesn't exist then...as they say....do the math.


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## Foxholer (Mar 30, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			Today I played with two people who recently had an Aimpoint session. My suspicions that this is nothing more than snake oil sales were confirmed. I walked up to my putts, worked out the lines by myself without any fingers or slopes below my feet guff. I holed more putts than the others did...by a very long way.

I believe that as golfers we're prepared to put our faith in any well-presented mumbo-jumbo if we dare hope it will get us an advantage.

Guys...and girls, if such a panacea existed every golfer in the world would've bought in to the concept, but as it actually doesn't exist then...as they say....do the math.
		
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Perhaps their inability to read putts was what inspired them to try Aimpoint! And their relatively lean experience with it was still showing..

But, as you are such a good 'natural' putter, feel free to stagnate!

It's not that I am an believer/advocate of the technique! I just get p-ed off with narrow minded folk! When Pros, whose livelihood/income/prestige can be seriously affected by their ability to putt, are adopting it and using it consistently, then I suspect it has some merit! Whether it's something for all golfers at every level is a different question though!


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 31, 2015)

Just out of interest how much do the courses cost? And are you best to take both of them (Midpoint and Express) or would it work taking just one? 

My putting is awful mainly due to a lousy putting stroke, not being able to read greens and my only practise being a dozen putts before each round. Wondered how the cost compares versus a series of lessons with a pro.


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 31, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Perhaps their inability to read putts was what inspired them to try Aimpoint! And their relatively lean experience with it was still showing..But, as you are such a good 'natural' putter, feel free to stagnate!It's not that I am an believer/advocate of the technique! I just get p-ed off with narrow minded folk! When Pros, whose livelihood/income/prestige can be seriously affected by their ability to putt, are adopting it and using it consistently, then I suspect it has some merit! Whether it's something for all golfers at every level is a different question though!
		
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That's the thing. They're both brilliant golfers and there was much banter and ribbing in the bar afterwards from a lot of people in there - very few who were advocates or are likely to be. Perhaps my comments were too harsh and I was still in banter mode myself. But after the kerfuffle has died down then I really don't believe this technique will be adopted by the masses on tour any more than plumb-bobbing has been over the years.



ColchesterFC said:



			Just out of interest how much do the courses cost? And are you best to take both of them (Midpoint and Express) or would it work taking just one?
		
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I believe it was Â£99 at our place.


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## MendieGK (Mar 31, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			That's the thing. They're both brilliant golfers and there was much banter and ribbing in the bar afterwards from a lot of people in there - very few who were advocates or are likely to be. Perhaps my comments were too harsh and I was still in banter mode myself. But after the kerfuffle has died down then I really don't believe this technique will be adopted by the masses on tour any more than plumb-bobbing has been over the years.I believe it was Â£99 at our place.
		
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#

Seriously still playing this same tune? I played in the same competition as a Walker Cup player on sunday, walked onto putting green and guess what, he was using aimpoint express.

Its only a year old, and it does work no two ways about it. The fact they are brilliant golfers for me sums it up, they are keen to continue their improvement rather than stagnate.


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 31, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			#

Seriously still playing this same tune? I played in the same competition as a Walker Cup player on sunday, walked onto putting green and guess what, he was using aimpoint express.

Its only a year old, and it does work no two ways about it. The fact they are brilliant golfers for me sums it up, they are keen to continue their improvement rather than stagnate.
		
Click to expand...


You may well be right...and I suppose only time will tell if they, and the others who took it, are still doing it in a year's time.

*"It's just where I comes from we don't like any new-fangled tricksy magic I tells 'ee!"* utt:


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## chillicon (Mar 31, 2015)

Is anyone willing to explain how to do it and post these charts?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 31, 2015)

chillicon said:



			Is anyone willing to explain how to do it and post these charts?
		
Click to expand...

While they are at it, if they can post the latest movies on here as well.....

Why should anyone post these charts for free, given they are likely copyrighted? Also, i imagine without doing the proper course, the charts aren't much good?

Bit cheeky expecting people who paid out Â£99 to teach you the ins and outs for free!


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## SGC001 (Mar 31, 2015)

chillicon said:



			Is anyone willing to explain how to do it and post these charts?
		
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one way of getting the charts would be to download the app. I think thats around Â£15.


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## chillicon (Mar 31, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			While they are at it, if they can post the latest movies on here as well.....

Why should anyone post these charts for free, given they are likely copyrighted? Also, i imagine without doing the proper course, the charts aren't much good?

Bit cheeky expecting people who paid out Â£99 to teach you the ins and outs for free!
		
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Not really. I assume that someone who signed up for a course of lessons with a pro to help solve a chronic hook etc wouldn't have a problem telling me what they had been taught.


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## 3565 (Mar 31, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			You may well be right...and I suppose only time will tell if they, and the others who took it, are still doing it in a year's time.

*"It's just where I comes from we don't like any new-fangled tricksy magic I tells 'ee!"* utt:
		
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ive been doin Aimpoint for past 3 yrs, chart reads and Express reads, and I still use it as it works without question. funny how some top pros are adapting to Aimpoint which is their lively hood yet your more informed cos your judging on the 2 who have just learned it. Like most things in golf it takes time to learn the concept and incorporate it. You had a great day with your putting on your home course, and showed them its a load of hocus pocus, it would be interesting if you played with the same guys on a course that the green speed is 2 foot quicker then your used to and see if you putt them off the course then? But, like most on here your against any new fang dangled tricky magic potion and that I accept as its your view but when the Rules officials are making videos on the new concept of reading greens, then I think it's going to be around for quite some time. 

As for posting charts and explaining, no offence you'd not understand and even if I put a detailed description of how it works you won't get it. Besides Express has taken over from mid point as it's easier and quicker to use.


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## chillicon (Mar 31, 2015)

3565 said:



			As for posting charts and explaining, no offence you'd not understand and even if I put a detailed description of how it works you won't get it. Besides Express has taken over from mid point as it's easier and quicker to use.
		
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I will be happy to prove you wrong.


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## CMAC (Mar 31, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			#

Seriously still playing this same tune? *I played in the same competition as a Walker Cup player on sunday, walked onto putting green and guess what, he was using aimpoint express.*

Its only a year old, and it does work no two ways about it. The fact they are brilliant golfers for me sums it up, they are keen to continue their improvement rather than stagnate.
		
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I have played with six, yes 6 Walker cup players, numerous plus handicaps, umpteen pro's including one elite Scottish Amateur who played in the Open, and guess what, none of them used it!

So what's your point caller?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 31, 2015)

As with every single different method in golf - it will work for some but won't work for others - there is imo no full proof method that covers everyone 

People have been reading greens for decades now using various methods and it will be up to the players to decide what they use 

Some pros have used Aimpoint - some still do and some don't - the majority still use whatever method they grew up learning whilst starting the game out and most don't seem to have an issue

Aimpoint Prob gives some more confidence when reading a green - won't make them a better putter as such but could help them pick better lines. Aimpoint as with other methods may make things worse for some - two guys I play with regualry did the course last year - one has stopped and the other still uses it and always seems to pick a different line that others pick - fair to see it hasn't changed his putting - still always hits it too hard. 

The issue most appear to have is cost - pretty much every method used in golf can be seen on the Internet for someone to try and see how they get on but it costs Â£100 which is more than what it would cost for a putting and green reading lesson from a pro and you also couldn't give it a try before buying so people could buy something that is no use to them at all. The next issue is speed of play - does it slow up play ? From the small amounts I have seen people use it - yes it does add a small amount of time to each putt - the same amount as someone reading a putt from all four directions and walking the line 

So as with all other methods - Aimpoint will no doubt work for some - whether that's a placebo effect or confidence etc it will work for some - but for others it won't work. 

It is currently very much used by a very small amount of people and have heard lots of negative talk about it from pros I play with in pro Am's including tour coaches. Will it explode on tour ? Just like stack and tilt i don't think it will nor do I think it will take over the Amatuer world - but the one thing that is certain - it creates a good talking point


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## MendieGK (Mar 31, 2015)

CMAC said:



			I have played with six, yes 6 Walker cup players, numerous plus handicaps, umpteen pro's including one elite Scottish Amateur who played in the Open, and guess what, none of them used it!

So what's your point caller?
		
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I'm just saying that more and more people are using it, Jimmy Walker made the cut in the open a couple of years ago, so i am guessing he was pretty good then too, so to be using aimpoint express now suggests that he feels it will improve his game.


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## MendieGK (Mar 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As with every single different method in golf - it will work for some but won't work for others - there is imo no full proof method that covers everyone 

People have been reading greens for decades now using various methods and it will be up to the players to decide what they use 

Some pros have used Aimpoint - some still do and some don't - the majority still use whatever method they grew up learning whilst starting the game out and most don't seem to have an issue

Aimpoint Prob gives some more confidence when reading a green - won't make them a better putter as such but could help them pick better lines. Aimpoint as with other methods may make things worse for some - two guys I play with regualry did the course last year - one has stopped and the other still uses it and always seems to pick a different line that others pick - fair to see it hasn't changed his putting - still always hits it too hard. 

The issue most appear to have is cost - pretty much every method used in golf can be seen on the Internet for someone to try and see how they get on but it costs Â£100 which is more than what it would cost for a putting and green reading lesson from a pro and you also couldn't give it a try before buying so people could buy something that is no use to them at all. The next issue is speed of play - does it slow up play ? From the small amounts I have seen people use it - yes it does add a small amount of time to each putt - the same amount as someone reading a putt from all four directions and walking the line 

So as with all other methods - Aimpoint will no doubt work for some - whether that's a placebo effect or confidence etc it will work for some - but for others it won't work. 

It is currently very much used by a very small amount of people and have heard lots of negative talk about it from pros I play with in pro Am's including tour coaches. Will it explode on tour ? Just like stack and tilt i don't think it will nor do I think it will take over the Amatuer world - but the one thing that is certain - it creates a good talking point
		
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If it doesn't speed up the time take to read a putt then they clearly weren't spending enough time reading break before they learnt to use aimpoint. It is significantly faster.

You are 100% right that it wont make you a better putter, and i would think the majority of people would benefit from a putting lesson rather than doing the course, however, if it gives you a confident read then that's one element corrected.

It just really P!sses me off on here that people mock something that is different, every single one of us on here could be a better putter. thats a matter of fact.

It wouldn't annoy me as much if every negative comment came from people who were in a qualified position. 
Having tried it or at least researched it. 

with regards to stack & tilt, did anyone ever get to world no1 using it? or actually win anything? nope. so i feel its different.


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## CMAC (Mar 31, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			I'm just saying that more and more people are using it, Jimmy Walker made the cut in the open a couple of years ago, so i am guessing he was pretty good then too, so to be using aimpoint express now suggests that he feels it will improve his game.
		
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thats good enough for me- if I ever get the chance to trial it, I will:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 31, 2015)

Some people can read greens pretty quickly - some just take one quick look and then putt - is Aimpoint quicker than that ? 

Will be interesting to see what happens with Poulter because for years his green reading was superb and know he was trying Aimpoint earlier in the season 

You are spot on that everyone can putt better - imo from what I seen that's more to do with the actual stroke as opposed to the read of a green - when I see people miss putts and include myself in that it very rarely seems to be down to a poor read - more about the wrong pace 

I have read up on it and spoken to a number of people including tour coaches and PGA master coaches and none advocated it - seen it in action and not seen anything that makes me what to spend Â£100 to try it - I guess if it was a method people could try without cost then maybe more will 

As for stack and tilt - I know Foley is the main guy for that and he has coached major winners including Rose but no idea if he uses it and did when winning the US Open


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## CMAC (Mar 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some people can read greens pretty quickly - some just take one quick look and then putt - is Aimpoint quicker than that ? 

Will be interesting to see what happens with Poulter because for years his green reading was superb and know he was trying Aimpoint earlier in the season 

You are spot on that everyone can putt better - imo from what I seen that's more to do with the actual stroke as opposed to the read of a green - when I see people miss putts and include myself in that it very rarely seems to be down to a poor read - more about the wrong pace 

I have read up on it and spoken to a number of people including tour coaches and PGA master coaches and none advocated it - seen it in action and not seen anything that makes me what to spend Â£100 to try it - I guess if it was a method people could try without cost then maybe more will 

As for stack and tilt - I know *Foley is the main guy for that and he has coached major winners including Rose but no idea if he uses it and did when winning the US Open*

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you would have known Phil, as he wouldn't have won


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## MendieGK (Mar 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some people can read greens pretty quickly - some just take one quick look and then putt - is Aimpoint quicker than that ? 

Will be interesting to see what happens with Poulter because for years his green reading was superb and know he was trying Aimpoint earlier in the season 

You are spot on that everyone can putt better - imo from what I seen that's more to do with the actual stroke as opposed to the read of a green - when I see people miss putts and include myself in that it very rarely seems to be down to a poor read - more about the wrong pace 

I have read up on it and spoken to a number of people including tour coaches and PGA master coaches and none advocated it - seen it in action and not seen anything that makes me what to spend Â£100 to try it - I guess if it was a method people could try without cost then maybe more will 

As for stack and tilt - I know Foley is the main guy for that and he has coached major winners including Rose but no idea if he uses it and did when winning the US Open
		
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No Rose doesn't stack & Tilt. 

I would also say that your opinion is clearly more informed than a number of other people. 

I agree around the improvement of the stroke and i work on that too, but there is no doubt my reads are a lot better in the past 2 rounds of using it that previously. but its horses for courses.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 31, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			No Rose doesn't stack & Tilt. 

I would also say that your opinion is clearly more informed than a number of other people. 

I agree around the improvement of the stroke and i work on that too, but there is no doubt my reads are a lot better in the past 2 rounds of using it that previously. but its horses for courses.
		
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If it works for you and helps you sink more putts then it's worth using the method and continuing to do so - as with anything it will be interesting to see what you do when for a period they don't drop as we all get those spells whether you go to a conventional method or if Aimpoint is now your method of reading greens 

We as golfers are always searching for something that will either help the ball go further or drop in the hole in the less shots 

Aimpoint at the moment has a bit of stigma attached to it - Prob unfairly and more down to how it makes people look and the cost but I think it will ultimately end up more popular within the club golfer than the pro circuit


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## CMAC (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm waiting on the Stack 'n' Express system to come out- can't fail.


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## 3565 (Mar 31, 2015)

There are some valid points posted which I can agree with but then there is tosh. 

Some like to improve their game which means going to a qualified Pro paying good money to get lessons. If after your lesson you don't agree with his methodology you don't go back and find someone else, but you NEVER ask a Pro for a freebie lesson to see if its suitable for you? That's just plain crazy. So why when someone comes up with a system should they give it away for free? Some Pros post on you tube not just to give hints and tips but they are actually looking for business, if you like what you hear and see then get in contact with me for further lessons...... For Chillicon, why not go and ask a Pro for a 2hr lesson (length of time to do Aimpoint) for nothing and see what reaction you'll get? And what works for another to stop the hooks may not work for you as we all swing differently. 

As for Aimpoint being quicker then a quick glimpse then hit it type player, then of course not, no system will be as quick as that but It is quicker then the usual look from 3 sides or 2 sides routine from players who want to shoot the lowest score possible as apposed to how fast they play. 

As for the placebo effect who knows, but from personal experience I'm holing more longer 20-30ft putts (not everytime) then I did before Aimpoint and I'm scaring the hole more often and thats good enough for me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 31, 2015)

It's a shame that some points get missed because too busy have a few cheap digs about people wanting to have a nice pace of play 

You don't like people critisizing Aimpoint then don't critisize people who don't like slow play 

I know and play with a lot of players including county champs and pros that score low that are able to play at a good pace without the need to prowl around a green looking from all angles 

People don't have to play slowly to score low - plenty score low but keep up with pace and the group in front as you are supposed by the excepted etiquette of golf - as can be seen by players getting penalised on tour - slow play is not acceptable.


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## chillicon (Mar 31, 2015)

3565 said:



			For Chillicon, why not go and ask a Pro for a 2hr lesson (length of time to do Aimpoint) for nothing and see what reaction you'll get? And what works for another to stop the hooks may not work for you as we all swing differently.
		
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I am not asking a pro to spend 2 hours explaining it so your point here is irrelevant. I am asking you. 

Why not just be honest? You are refusing to explain either because you simply cant explain it well enough, or you just dont want someone to get the knowledge for free when you have paid for it. Either way it is more than a little bit embarrassing and pathetic imho.

If anyone of a more generous spirit would like to share the wealth, publicly please do. If you would rather not publicly, please feel free to pm.


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## 3565 (Mar 31, 2015)

It's a shame that you won't accept that Aimpoint is quicker then the 'normal' type of read and you've only picked up on that point, which you are defending so heartedly. 

I don't mind those who have tried it and said its not for them, but you've not tried it. So how do you know it's not for you, unless your the quick glimpse and hit it player? 

Just for the record your recent posts have been more even keel about Aimpoint and have agreed and I'm willing to accept your points of view, unlike yourself. I am not saying slow play is acceptable but from playing golf for the past 30 odd years and watching it on TV it's painful seeing the pros stalking the green like they do and from my informed standpoint the express is quicker. As defending Aimpoint if that's how you see it then I could say stop attacking it until your more informed about the system. You keep stating you play for the enjoyment of the game and that's fine, but some are competitive, does how you play or I play, right or wrong? 

It's a subject that some would probably would like to discuss more but you get the same people who want to knock it and come with the same put downs on it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 31, 2015)

What is the "normal" type read ?

I don't see many do more than the one read of a line - vary rare to see any more than that - don't see many club golfwrs "stalking" the green 

Every time I have seen someone doing a read via Aimpoint it takes them longer than anyone else in the group 

I know it's not for me because I have no interest in paying someone to show me how to read when I'm happy reading it exactly how I am and the people I have played with don't seem to read it any better than me 

I haven't said how i or how anyone plays is right or wrong unless the speed of their play is not within the etiquette of the game


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## CMAC (Mar 31, 2015)

3565 said:



			It's a shame that you won't accept that Aimpoint is quicker then the 'normal' type of read and you've only picked up on that point, which you are defending so heartedly. 

*I don't mind those who have tried it and said its not for them, but you've not tried it. So how do you know it's not for you,* unless your the quick glimpse and hit it player? 

Just for the record your recent posts have been more even keel about Aimpoint and have agreed and I'm willing to accept your points of view, unlike yourself. I am not saying slow play is acceptable but from playing golf for the past 30 odd years and watching it on TV it's painful seeing the pros stalking the green like they do and from my informed standpoint the express is quicker. As defending Aimpoint if that's how you see it then I could say stop attacking it until your more informed about the system. You keep stating you play for the enjoyment of the game and that's fine, but some are competitive, does how you play or I play, right or wrong? 

It's a subject that some would probably would like to discuss more but you get the same people who want to knock it and come with the same put downs on it.
		
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I ain't tried homosexuality but I know it's not for me 

I get your point though but sometimes you only need salient information to know it's not for you.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 31, 2015)

I don't understand how an Aimpoint read can be quicker than a 'normal' read, for that to be the case surely it means you are taking in less information and if that's the case, how can you hit a better putt?


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## bluewolf (Mar 31, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I don't understand how an Aimpoint read can be quicker than a 'normal' read, for that to be the case surely it means you are taking in less information and if that's the case, how can you hit a better putt?
		
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Taking less time doesn't have to mean less information. It could simply mean that the information taken in is more pertinent.


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## 3565 (Mar 31, 2015)

chillicon said:



			I am not asking a pro to spend 2 hours explaining it so your point here is irrelevant. I am asking you. 

Why not just be honest? You are refusing to explain either because you simply cant explain it well enough, or you just dont want someone to get the knowledge for free when you have paid for it. Either way it is more than a little bit embarrassing and pathetic imho.

If anyone of a more generous spirit would like to share the wealth, publicly please do. If you would rather not publicly, please feel free to pm.
		
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Owt for nowt comes to mind. 

If your interested do what Homer, mendiegk and one or two others have done, take the course. 

If not get back to me when you've bought a Stimp meter and a Clinometer.......

my guess is that you won't.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 31, 2015)

For those that use Aimpoint, does it ever give you the wrong read? For instance I'm approaching the green and my initial read without Aimpoint is that my line is 6 inches outside right. I then use Aimpoint which says it's 6 inches outside left. I go with the Aimpoint read and it turns out I should've gone with my first read.

Can the above happen? And if so would it be due to user error or a flaw in the system?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 31, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Taking less time doesn't have to mean less information. It could simply mean that the information taken in is more pertinent.
		
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I'm inclined to disagree, I think it's important to take it all in then discard what isn't relevant. Otherwise you may not take in something that is possibly part of the read?


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## 3565 (Mar 31, 2015)

CMAC said:



*I ain't tried homosexuality but I know it's not for me *

I get your point though but sometimes you only need salient information to know it's not for you.
		
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well I'll try most things but that I must agree, I'm with you.


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## bluewolf (Mar 31, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm inclined to disagree, I think it's important to take it all in then discard what isn't relevant. Otherwise you may not take in something that is possibly part of the read?
		
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Where would the forum be if everyone agreed? :thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 31, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Where would the forum be if everyone agreed? :thup:
		
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Good point, well made  :thup:


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## Region3 (Mar 31, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I don't understand how an Aimpoint read can be quicker than a 'normal' read, for that to be the case surely it means you are taking in less information and if that's the case, how can you hit a better putt?
		
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By that logic how can you hit a better putt than someone who reads the line from all 4 sides?

I've never played with anyone using Aimpoint so can't comment on how quick or otherwise it is, but they're getting the same information in a different way so I don't see why it HAS to take longer to be able to claim to get better info.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 31, 2015)

CMAC said:



			I ain't tried homosexuality but I know it's not for me 

I get your point though but sometimes you only need salient information to know it's not for you.
		
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Have you got proof of that,no, didn't think so


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			...
As for stack and tilt - I know Foley is the main guy for that
		
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Wrong!!! 



ColchesterFC said:



			For those that use Aimpoint, does it ever give you the wrong read? For instance I'm approaching the green and my initial read without Aimpoint is that my line is 6 inches outside right. I then use Aimpoint which says it's 6 inches outside left. I go with the Aimpoint read and it turns out I should've gone with my first read.

Can the above happen? And if so would it be due to user error or a flaw in the system?
		
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Has to be 'User Error' - as in the read, though on 'multi-break' greens, it's comparitively easy easy to get it wrong. It's based on the facts that Gravity exists and that the faster the green, the more influence Gravity will have! The only other relevant variable (to predicting what line is required) is the speed of the ball.

If you have seen any of their PGA predictions - where they have pre-measured the greens and fed those slopes into a computer, you will see how accurate the above 2 variables (that system assumed the ball would be hit at a speed to go 6" further than the distance tp the cup).


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## 3565 (Mar 31, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			For those that use Aimpoint, does it ever give you the wrong read? For instance I'm approaching the green and my initial read without Aimpoint is that my line is 6 inches outside right. I then use Aimpoint which says it's 6 inches outside left. I go with the Aimpoint read and it turns out I should've gone with my first read.

Can the above happen? And if so would it be due to user error or a flaw in the system?
		
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i can only go on my experience, where ive read a putt and my initial thought is 3 but gone with 2 and missed on the low side, gone back and did a 3 and holed it. I do find that the more the slope the easier the read is, if I have a read that I can't determine the slope direction I'll use the plumb bob then make my assessment from there. So your scenario for me wouldn't happen as that's some break your dealing with. If we base your 6" break (a cup and a bit) on roughly the UK average of stimp 9 and slope 2% you would have a putt that is 8ft long.


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## chillicon (Mar 31, 2015)

3565 said:



			If not get back to me when you've bought a Stimp meter and a Clinometer.......

my guess is that you won't.
		
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I have access to both of those things.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 31, 2015)

It takes me approximately 10 seconds to take the mid point read and I look at the break on the chart as I go to the ball so quantifiably speedy. Ask any of those that have seen me use it and they never had any complaints about slowing pace of play.

On the subject of cost, it is Â£99 for a 2.5 hour midpoint course and included in that is the opportunity to go back and re-do it again at a later date as a refresher for no extra cost. It works. My putting stats have improved and I am giving more putts a chance to go in as they are on the right line.


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## chrisd (Mar 31, 2015)

H



HomerJSimpson said:



			It takes me approximately 10 seconds to take the mid point read and I look at the break on the chart as I go to the ball so quantifiably speedy. Ask any of those that have seen me use it and they never had any complaints about slowing pace of play.

On the subject of cost, it is Â£99 for a 2.5 hour midpoint course and included in that is the opportunity to go back and re-do it again at a later date as a refresher for no extra cost. It works. My putting stats have improved and I am giving more putts a chance to go in as they are on the right line.
		
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To be fair Homer, there are naysayers who wouldn't have any lessons, any advice etc etc and no one will ever convince them that if they just were open minded, took a chance once in a while, something may just be worth paying for! 

I'd do Aimpoint and happily take the chance as to whether it would be the holy grail. Trying to answer the "anti brigade" is pointless because, at the end of the day, they might just make a few putts that they currently miss - cos we all miss putts!


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## jpxpro (Mar 31, 2015)

ive done aimpoint express and think its a great tool to have in your locker.


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2015)

jpxpro said:



			ive done aimpoint express and think its a great tool to have in your locker.
		
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Indeed, I don't believe the 'mid-point' system will be taught much - if at all - from now on - as it suffers from the perception of being time consuming and complicated. On the other hand (finger? ) I'm pretty certain that Express will become considerably more popular, even by many who won't attend a course.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 31, 2015)

I haven't done the Express course but understanding the way Aimpoint works means I have good idea how it works and can make a decent attempt at using it. I'm trying in bounce games as I don't always trust I've enough break at time especially on three and four finger (no puns) sloping putts


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## tallpaul (Mar 31, 2015)

Regarding Aimpoint and slow play... My experience/opinion is that slow players are born not taught. If you are a slow player, particularly around the greens, Aimpoint Express offers the potential to speed up your play but it most likely won't.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 31, 2015)

Now I'm really confused. It started with percentages or degrees and now it's fingers. Are these the two different methods (Midpoint? and Express) or just different ways of describing it? 

And would it work for someone like me that is quite unable to read a green? One example would be me aiming 6 inches outside the left edge and watching the ball break about a foot the wrong way. That's how bad I am.


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 31, 2015)

This thread is the perfect illustration of what's good for one is nonsense for another. 

I don't buy into Aimpoint personally as putting has always been my strong suit. I have a quick look, make up my mind and just trust my initial judgment.

As kids my brothers and I sank baked bean cans into the lawn and putted to them from 360 degree positions around the garden, learning about pace, distance and feel as we went along. I believe that 40 odd years later this stands my perception of putting in good stead. 

But does it mean Aimpoint's wrong as a concept? Well no of course it doesn't. We're all different with a system of beliefs and degrees of inbuilt cynicism that make us wary of fancy new fandangangled concepts. 

My my closing comment on the debate is this. If you think it's nonsense then discount its relevance, if you think it's a viable way forward, then go knock yourself out.


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## Region3 (Mar 31, 2015)

B



JohnnyDee said:



			This thread is the perfect illustration of what's good for one is nonsense for another. 

I don't buy into Aimpoint personally as putting has always been my strong suit. I have a quick look, make up my mind and just trust my initial judgment.

As kids my brothers and I sank baked bean cans into the lawn and putted to them from 360 degree positions around the garden, learning about pace, distance and feel as we went along. I believe that 40 years later this stands my perception of putting in good stead. 

But does it mean Aimpoint's wrong as a concept? Well no of course it doesn't. We're all different with a system of beliefs and degrees of inbuilt cynicism that make us wary of fancy new fandangangled concepts. 

My my closing comment on the debate is this. If you think it's nonsense then discount its relevance, if you think it's a viable way forward, then go knock yourself out.
		
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Sorry, I know you've just said that was your closing comment, but have you ever seen tv coverage of the PGA tour when they put the putting line on the screen that the ball should travel on to go in?

I know pace is all important so that line isn't the be all and end all, but I'd struggle to believe anyone that claimed they wouldn't hole more putts if they had access to that info before every putt they had.

The guy behind Aimpoint is the guy that wrote the software to put that line on the screen based on measurements made of the green.

You may already know this but some might not. I just think it illustrates that the chap knows what he's talking about, and that the break can be 'calculated' if you can estimate the slope.


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## richart (Apr 1, 2015)

How do you get a stimpmeter reading at a course ? I think I have only ever seen one course with a reading, Sussex National from memory. If you do it yourself on the practice putting green, you would have no chance at my Club, as the practice putting green is nothing like the actual greens. Same when I played at Royal St Georges and Cinque Ports recently. Practice greens covered in sand, actual greens much much quicker.

I assume I have missed something here ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2015)

There is a way of testing the stimp by taking say a ten foot putt on a 2% slope and mark where the break is? If you are outside, the green is quicker so go to the next stimp on the chart and so on


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