# Paul Runyan - chip and run method...



## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

The simple chip and run is a shot that has evaded me all my life. Could not play it for toffee. Till now. 

I had tried everything you could think of and even most parts of this technique apart from one vital ingredient. This is the grip. Hugely important as it locks the wrists and won't let them hinge. 

To play it ...

Super weak left hand position 
Pretty strong right hand position
Raise the handle so heel is off the ground. Shaft a lot more vertical (allows for less arc, more straight back and thru stroke)
Ball back in stance (around back foot)
Hands ahead. 
Basically putting stroke, slightly descending.


I could never play this as I had far too strong left hand. I always hinged too much and was forever sticking the leading edge into the turf. Duff.

Spent just over an hour at the putting green trying this and was blown away. Played a few holes with my mate after and showed him. Both loving it. 

This works even better from light semi rough greenside as the toe picks the ball lovely. Gets the ball rolling at the hole and you feel you can hole the chip. 

This is absolutely massive for me. No more high chips when it isn't necessary. 

Videos to follow for those interested.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

[video=youtube;EistB62E6pw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EistB62E6pw&t=210s[/video]

First video I watched on it.  Describes it really well.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

[video=youtube;PEcuqPF1DM8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEcuqPF1DM8[/video]


The man himself explaining how and why he came up with this technique.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

[video=youtube;-MSlQECpRos]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MSlQECpRos[/video]


Me having a go at it @ the putting green. 7 iron.


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## Dando (May 30, 2017)

I had a short game lesson and was taught this method and it has been good so far. I've also sort of adapted it to use with my wedges from about 40-50 yards but that's still work in progress.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

[video=youtube;ImMVti-BNdM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImMVti-BNdM[/video]

Short video. Doesn't fully explain it but worth a quick duke if short on time. Doesn't explain the grip or hands ahead.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

Dando said:



			I had a short game lesson and was taught this method and it has been good so far. I've also sort of adapted it to use with my wedges from about 40-50 yards but that's still work in progress.
		
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There was a great Jim furyk video showing him play this with everything from 4 iron to wedges but it seems to be deleted. He only said to use your putting grip. He didn't say to go super weak left and strong right unfortunately or I would have sussed this out years ago.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

[video=youtube;_-ES9EBKG1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-ES9EBKG1k&t=321s[/video]


Essential viewing. :thup:


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## ScienceBoy (May 30, 2017)

Drives home the key points of good chipping.

I agree with a lot of it, actually pretty much all of it. The guy talks sense.

I think the same can be achieved without a lot of the adjustments, I always think back to bobmac's shaft on two range baskets. Try to chip the ball under the baskets and it will go over them.

It does seem good solid chipping technique, I just couldn't adopt what I see as over complications.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 30, 2017)

I can see a lot of merit in it. I'll stick with linear but if it works then why not. Watched the videos and it's actually something someone once showed me and I did use it a few years back for a short while


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

ScienceBoy said:



			Drives home the key points of good chipping.

I agree with a lot of it, actually pretty much all of it. The guy talks sense.

I think the same can be achieved without a lot of the adjustments, I always think back to bobmac's shaft on two range baskets. Try to chip the ball under the baskets and it will go over them.

It does seem good solid chipping technique, I just couldn't adopt what I see as over complications.
		
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The adjustments are vital.  The raised handle is something I was wary of. I just couldn't see how this would work well.  It does.  The raised handle allows for a straighter stroke. This in turn hits the ball unbelievably straight.  Without this, you have too much of an arc with the face opening and closing.  Trust me, this works an absolute treat.

Not forgetting the grip.  Some people will have a natural weak left hand. Others like me won't. This is game changer. Locks those wrists.

NB: I tried this with the club in normal position (not heel raised) and it doesn't work well. The heel catches the ground on too many shots.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 30, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			The adjustments are vital.  The raised handle is something I was wary of. I just couldn't see how this would work well.  It does.  The raised handle allows for a straighter stroke. This in turn hits the ball unbelievably straight.  Without this, you have too much of an arc with the face opening and closing.  Trust me, this works an absolute treat.

Not forgetting the grip.  Some people will have a natural weak left hand. Others like me won't. This is game changer. Locks those wrists.

NB: I tried this with the club in normal position (not heel raised) and it doesn't work well. The heel catches the ground on too many shots.
		
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Didn't Karen(FairwayDodger) post something similar a while back about lifting the heel to help with chipping (apologies if I've got confused)


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## Liverbirdie (May 30, 2017)

I was showing you the merits of this shot 3 years ago, but no, you had to go billy big time with your lovely spinning Pro-V check shots......

I dont do the raised handle bit, but to me the secret is keeping the club close to the ground in the take away for as long as possible.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Didn't Karen(FairwayDodger) post something similar a while back about lifting the heel to help with chipping (apologies if I've got confused)
		
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The raised heel is nothing new to me.  It just doesn't work well for me if I have my normal super strong left hand as I hinge the club too much on way back.  

Liverbirdie tried his best to teach me and bump and run shot but for the life of me I couldn't master it due to that left hand.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was showing you the merits of this shot 3 years ago, but no, you had to go billy big time with your lovely spinning Pro-V check shots......

I dont do the raised handle bit, but to me the secret is keeping the club close to the ground in the take away for as long as possible.
		
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Speak of the devil. :rofl:       you did tell me I had a strong grip. :rofl:


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was showing you the merits of this shot 3 years ago, but no, you had to go billy big time with your lovely spinning Pro-V check shots......

I dont do the raised handle bit, but to me the secret is keeping the club close to the ground in the take away for as long as possible.
		
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You are actually a perfect example of someone who naturally holds the club slightly weak left, stronger right. 

Give this a go big man. With the raised heel and even weaker left and stronger right. Unbelievably straight chips.


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## Dando (May 30, 2017)

I still use my normal grip.
i find this method helps you stay taller. I think a lot of my issues were caused by slouching.


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## Dasit (May 30, 2017)

Been chipping like this for a little while. Hole a lot more than I did hitting lofted checkie chips


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## HomerJSimpson (May 30, 2017)

Dando said:



			I still use my normal grip.
i find this method helps you stay taller. I think a lot of my issues were caused by slouching.
		
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Good posture is important no matter what technique you use. It's something even linear advocates.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 30, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			The raised heel is nothing new to me.  It just doesn't work well for me if I have my normal super strong left hand as I hinge the club too much on way back.  

Liverbirdie tried his best to teach me and bump and run shot but for the life of me I couldn't master it due to that left hand.
		
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One thing I noticed between the first video and the Paul Runyan one, Runyan didn't mention the straightening of the shaft, also you didn't straighten the shaft in your video as much as the first one, did you try it more upright, if you did, did it change the result?


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## Dasit (May 30, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good posture is important no matter what technique you use. It's something even linear advocates.
		
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Just out of interest why are you so set on linear?

I have watched some of your vlogs and you seem to have a lot of trouble around the greens



All the best chippers I know at my club would have no idea what linear is, they just play the best shot for the moment


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			One thing I noticed between the first video and the Paul Runyan one, Runyan didn't mention the straightening of the shaft, also you didn't straighten the shaft in your video as much as the first one, did you try it more upright, if you did, did it change the result?
		
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As I mentioned earlier I struggled with the concept of having the shaft vertical. I took this video literally 20 minutes after trying it. I suppose its personal preference how much you stand it up but its certainly beneficial to get the back and through stroke that gives the straight shot. 

Its easier to stand it up even straighter when the ball is sitting in semi rough.


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can see a lot of merit in it. I'll stick with linear but if it works then why not. Watched the videos and it's actually something someone once showed me and I did use it a few years back for a short while
		
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There is still light.  Try this in your back garden now with an 8 iron and report back. :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 30, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			As I mentioned earlier I struggled with the concept of having the shaft vertical. I took this video literally 20 minutes after trying it. I suppose its personal preference how much you stand it up but its certainly beneficial to get the back and through stroke that gives the straight shot. 

Its easier to stand it up even straighter when the ball is sitting in semi rough.
		
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Hopefully will try it tomorrow, particularly like the aspect of it running straight, I often aim off as at times my chipping/pitching does arc left and right as mentioned in first video, was hoping you had tried the shaft in different positions to see what was most effective, your video had the balls you played quite close together.

How awkward do the hands feel?


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 30, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			There is still light.  Try this in your back garden now with an 8 iron and report back. :thup:
		
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Go and wash your mouth out with soap


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## HomerJSimpson (May 30, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			There is still light.  Try this in your back garden now with an 8 iron and report back. :thup:
		
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Going to club tomorrow night for some chipping and putting practice anyway so will give it a whirl then. As I said, something someone showed me many moons back and I tried. Not sure we actually changed the grip though which you seem to think is a game changer so wondering if I got mixed results as a result and binned it. I'll come back to you tomorrow although linear showing definite improvement now I'm working on it regularly


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Hopefully will try it tomorrow, particularly like the aspect of it running straight, I often aim off as at times my chipping/pitching does arc left and right as mentioned in first video, was hoping you had tried the shaft in different positions to see what was most effective, your video had the balls you played quite close together.

How awkward do the hands feel?
		
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I just tried to get the shaft as vertical as possible while still being comfortable.  Took a little while to get it. 

The grip itself is a mile away from my full shot one.  Did it for just over an hour at the chipping green. Then around an actual green with my mate for a while and feels great now. I think the results breed confidence in it. 


Chipping with my mate at the 17th. I was reading the green as if I was putting on it chipping from a hill just over the back and most chips looked like them had a chance if I hit them hard enough to get to the hole.  Mind set is changing from get it close to hole it.  :rofl:


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## garyinderry (May 30, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Going to club tomorrow night for some chipping and putting practice anyway so will give it a whirl then. As I said, something someone showed me many moons back and I tried. Not sure we actually changed the grip though which you seem to think is a game changer so wondering if I got mixed results as a result and binned it. I'll come back to you tomorrow although linear showing definite improvement now I'm working on it regularly
		
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Good man.  Give it a video too to see if you have the technique down. Remember those key points from the first post.  

Good :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (May 30, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Speak of the devil. :rofl:       you did tell me I had a strong grip. :rofl:
		
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:whoo:


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## Farneyman (May 30, 2017)

I'm for trying this tomorrow. :thup: Anything that helps get the ball closer to the hole will be a great result.


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## chrisd (May 31, 2017)

I've adopted the heel off the ground style for chipping from heavier rough in recent weeks and it works well. I also have lifted the putter shaft up straighter for short tap ins and that has stopped extra movement of the hands as it locks the wrists so I've no reason to think it wouldn't work with chipping. I will try the different hand position on the grip when I play today and see what sort of results I get. 

I was at US Open qualifying on Monday and especially watched the pro's chipping methods as I need to improve mine. There weren't any quirky methods on show although there were many variations, broke wrists v  stiffer wrists etc etc but the most noticeable thing was, because of their confidence, they just came through smoothly with acceleration whereas I feel jerky or quitting  on occasions, especially if chipping towards danger. 

Thanks for posting video Gary


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## bobmac (May 31, 2017)

If you couldn't chip before then you were doing something wrong and if this method helps you then go for it.
It's not something I would teach though


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## Ndw7 (May 31, 2017)

Completely agree. I found this method on YouTube a couple of weeks ago. Tried it during the monthly medal this weekend and I'll never to back to trying to chip 'conventionally'. I feel like I have a chance of holing almost every chip from around the green! I told my mate about it mid round and I think I should ask for a fee &#128514;

Obviously, I'd still like to learn how to chip to get some height on the ball to make it stop quickly. For shots when I have to chip over a bunker etc. But this is method is fantastic &#128077;&#127995;


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

Heading to Ballyliffen later so will try and make a video to show how well it works from semi rough.

Absolutly brilliant. 

Dont rule it out bob.  I'm sure you have plenty of people who don't quite master a more traditional technique.


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## patricks148 (May 31, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			[video=youtube;-MSlQECpRos]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MSlQECpRos[/video]


Me having a go at it @ the putting green. 7 iron.
		
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looks and sounds like you are thinning it??


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## bobmac (May 31, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Dont rule it out bob.  I'm sure you have plenty of people who don't quite master a more traditional technique.
		
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I wouldnt teach a grip like that to stop the wrists from flicking, I'd sell them a V-Easy.


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

bobmac said:



			I wouldnt teach a grip like that to stop the wrists from flicking, I'd sell them a V-Easy.
		
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Touche.   Lol


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			looks and sounds like you are thinning it??
		
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Definitely not thin.  Noticed the funny noise on the tablet last night. Possibly due to phone being held inside the brolly holder. 

Sounds like a pop with headphones on. 

The technique requires you to hit them out of the toe. Especially off those tight lies. Will also sound differnt to a center strike but pretty sure the sound is off due to the mic being in a well. Lol


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## patricks148 (May 31, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Definitely not thin.  Noticed the funny noise on the tablet last night. Possibly due to phone being held inside the brolly holder. 

Sounds like a pop with headphones on. 

The technique requires you to hit them out of the toe. Especially off those tight lies. Will also sound differnt to a center strike but pretty sure the sound is off due to the mic being in a well. Lol
		
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what about if you have to carry a bit more rough than you are here? 
looks like you are on a nice fluffy fringe, TBH in the same situation as you have there i would putt it if i was struggling with chipping


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

This is just a video to show the technique. 

This isn't a great deal of grass under those balls. I assure you. In real life it's pretty closely mown.

The technique works well on up towards wedges. I will try and show a few differnt ones today if possible.  The idea of the shot is to get it running on the green ASAP.  You change Club depending on how far on the pin is or how far you need to lift the ball to get it on the green.


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## pokerjoke (May 31, 2017)

If the results are good for you then why not because it doesn't really matter what method is used as long as you do get the result your looking for.

I have never seen a pro although there probably are some that use it.

I have not got a clue what method I use but I can safely say I am a really good chipper because I practice chipping so much.
I can go down our range and do 150-300 chips from all areas and recently during games I have holed out a few times,it really does whatever method you use come down to practice.


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## patricks148 (May 31, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			If the results are good for you then why not because it doesn't really matter what method is used as long as you do get the result your looking for.

I have never seen a pro although there probably are some that use it.

I have not got a clue what method I use but I can safely say I am a really good chipper because I practice chipping so much.
I can go down our range and do 150-300 chips from all areas and recently during games I have holed out a few times,it really does *whatever method you use come down to practic*e.
		
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I agree, I have been practicing my chipping a fair bit in the garden of late... not had to chip on the course much recently though


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

[video=youtube;z_d09TXNtkc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_d09TXNtkc[/video]


The golf monthly boys know where its at.


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I agree, I have been practicing my chipping a fair bit in the garden of late... not had to chip on the course much recently though
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			Good posture is important no matter what technique you use. It's something even linear advocates.
		
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Btw homer, Paul Runyan is a big advocate of standing square to all chips.  You could say he is the god father of linear.  Only difference being he locks the wrists and hits down and gary smith is all wrist and flicky.


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## virtuocity (May 31, 2017)

If using a LW, will it go in the air?


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## pokerjoke (May 31, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			If using a LW, will it go in the air?
		
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Not necessarily it will depend on many things ie ball position,hand position,club head open or closed etc.

You can easily deloft a LW or even a 58 or 60 and get more run as apposed to opening the clubface and getting less roll out.


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## virtuocity (May 31, 2017)

And with the lie angle, do you aim to hit it out the toe?


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## pokerjoke (May 31, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			[video=youtube;z_d09TXNtkc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_d09TXNtkc[/video]


The golf monthly boys know where its at.
		
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I always find  GM videos way too short he could add where he is trying to land it and how much roll out he is expecting.

So many players mess up this easy shot because they feel the need to look at the hole,all that needs to be done is to chip to your landing spot and with practice with each club you will understand how much roll out you will get.

By the way I'm no expert and far from perfect but I don't duff chips from perfect lies either.


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I agree, I have been practicing my chipping a fair bit in the garden of late... not had to chip on the course much recently though
		
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virtuocity said:



			If using a LW, will it go in the air?
		
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Lob wedge will obviously go higher than any other club.  Been in the garden just now with my 60. Albeit off longish mossy grass so easy to hit under it. 

Runyan says to put the ball further back as you go up in loft to ensure a downward blow. 

Yes toe side strike.


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## pokerjoke (May 31, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			And with the lie angle, do you aim to hit it out the toe?
		
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If you hit out of the toe it will deaden the contact slightly but going by the videos above that's what they are advocating.
With longer irons like 8 7 6 etc I would be looking for the middle for a more consistent strike.


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## Region3 (May 31, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			[video=youtube;_-ES9EBKG1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-ES9EBKG1k&t=321s[/video]


Essential viewing. :thup:
		
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I know it's not the point of the thread, but 2:42 in this video.

Holy smoke, that is some clubhead speed!


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

Region3 said:



			I know it's not the point of the thread, but 2:42 in this video.

Holy smoke, that is some clubhead speed! 

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I'm more impressed by Runyan's niblick action at 3.00


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## pokerjoke (May 31, 2017)

Love that roll out chart at the end such an important aspect.


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I agree, I have been practicing my chipping a fair bit in the garden of late... not had to chip on the course much recently though
		
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pokerjoke said:



			Love that roll out chart at the end such an important aspect.
		
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virtuocity said:



			And with the lie angle, do you aim to hit it out the toe?
		
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Waiting on my 3pm tee time so made a quick video in the garden to answer this. 

[video=youtube;dE1hKWsYJEA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE1hKWsYJEA[/video]


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 31, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Love that roll out chart at the end such an important aspect.
		
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It's a really good video


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

Here is azinger chatting about toe pitching.  Beautiful little shots he's playing here. 

Obviously not the same type of shot but same advice.  Toe good, heel bad. 

[video=youtube;Gd7kRjdvVAU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd7kRjdvVAU[/video]


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## srixon 1 (May 31, 2017)

Has anyone ever tried using a 7/8 iron to chip with, but using all the fundamentals of your putting stroke, grip, ball position etc.

Have a practice and if you are struggling with your chip and run shots you might be surprised.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 31, 2017)

srixon 1 said:



			Has anyone ever tried using a 7/8 iron to chip with, but using all the fundamentals of your putting stroke, grip, ball position etc.

Have a practice and if you are struggling with your chip and run shots you might be surprised.
		
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I use them all the time as my go to clubs, my issue is is that sometimes I arc the shot, going to give this a try to straighten out my shots.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 31, 2017)

That didn't go to plan and HID spent the day in hospital so didn't try it out. Will report back when I get back on a course


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## 3565 (May 31, 2017)

I practise this method but not with the extreme grip tho. My toe strikes are toe strikes, virtually on the grooveless part of the club, it comes out very dead but it runs, great for downhill shots. I even do full cut pitch shots of 10-20yds and strike it out of the toe and still get it to spin and stop. Great shot to have, but hard to master.


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## Bigfoot (May 31, 2017)

I had a go at this method on our practice area today and found it very easy with a 48 deg wedge and a 9 iron. The 9 iron ran further than the wedge as suggested and it was much easier than I thought it would be. I found it a bit tougher on rougher ground so will have another go when I have a chance.
It was good to have another method to go to though.


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## garyinderry (May 31, 2017)

3565 said:



			I practise this method but not with the extreme grip tho. My toe strikes are toe strikes<script id="gpt-impl-0.15077986619139705" src="https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads_impl_119.js"></script>, virtually on the grooveless part of the club, it comes out very dead but it runs, great for downhill shots. I even do full cut pitch shots of 10-20yds and strike it out of the toe and still get it to spin and stop. Great shot to have, but hard to master.
		
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Apparently that's why Phil's PM wedge has grooves right out the edge so he can hit chips and pitch shots out of the toe.


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## Orikoru (Jun 1, 2017)

I occasionally do something like you've described. Usually if I'm only just off the edge of the green, but still a long way from the flag so I don't fancy putting, I'll take my 8 iron, grip down it a little bit and basically do a firm putting stroke with it. I prefer that to having to either belt it with the putter or hit a feather-light chip - it sits somewhere in between so a little more margin for error I suppose.


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## huds1475 (Jun 1, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			The simple chip and run is a shot that has evaded me all my life. Could not play it for toffee. Till now. 

I had tried everything you could think of and even most parts of this technique apart from one vital ingredient. This is the grip. Hugely important as it locks the wrists and won't let them hinge. 

To play it ...

Super weak left hand position 
Pretty strong right hand position
Raise the handle so heel is off the ground. Shaft a lot more vertical (allows for less arc, more straight back and thru stroke)
Ball back in stance (around back foot)
Hands ahead. 
Basically putting stroke, slightly descending.


I could never play this as I had far too strong left hand. I always hinged too much and was forever sticking the leading edge into the turf. Duff.

Spent just over an hour at the putting green trying this and was blown away. Played a few holes with my mate after and showed him. Both loving it. 

This works even better from light semi rough greenside as the toe picks the ball lovely. Gets the ball rolling at the hole and you feel you can hole the chip. 

This is absolutely massive for me. No more high chips when it isn't necessary. 

Videos to follow for those interested.
		
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Had a bash in the garden for 15 minutes or so this afternoon. Mightily impressed with simplicity and control of direction/distance.

Taking it on the course is another thing but have an away day tomorrow so will be able to give it a run out without a card in hand.

Thanks tinker-man :thup:


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## garyinderry (Jun 1, 2017)

Great to hear.  Directional control is a massive thing from this.  It just wants to hit the ball where you point it.  Fantastic.  

All my old chips would slide left to right as I cut under and across the ball.  This technique hits it straight.  

Massive


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## Dando (Jun 1, 2017)

I'm glad I was introduced to the method as I've never had a good short game. It got to the point recently where I had a chipper in my eBay watch list


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## bobmac (Jun 1, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			All my old chips would slide left to right *as I cut under and across the ball*.
		
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Why were you doing that?


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 1, 2017)

I've never seen this before but it is essentially an exaggerated version of what I have been trying to do and I'm desperate so I thought I'd give it a go. Although I have only tried it in the garden for 10 minutes it seems as though it is impossible to hit it badly using this method. Whether it is the upright shaft or grip position or both I don't no but it seems that this really works :thup:


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## garyinderry (Jun 1, 2017)

bobmac said:



			Why were you doing that?
		
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Due to not having firm wrists, they would hinge on way back then stick the leading edge into ground on way back.

Developed a shot where I would open the face and increase the bounce, slip the club in under the ball and cut it in soft left to right.  It pretty much guaranteed contact but as I say always spun off to the right. 

You can only duff it into the soft Irish turf so much before you lose the will to live.


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## garyinderry (Jun 1, 2017)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I've never seen this before but it is essentially an exaggerated version of what I have been trying to do and I'm desperate so I thought I'd give it a go. Although I have only tried it in the garden for 10 minutes it seems as though it is impossible to hit it badly using this method. Whether it is the upright shaft or grip position or both I don't no but it seems that this really works :thup:
		
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It really is that good. Especially from light rough you find around parkland greens. 

In that video. Runyan says, in the time before records where made on the the pga tour, he won all the chipping tests 5 years in a row. It's not hard to see why....    faultless technique.


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## bobmac (Jun 1, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Developed a shot where I would open the face and increase the bounce, slip the club in under the ball and cut it in soft left to right.  It pretty much guaranteed contact but as I say always spun off to the right.
		
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No wonder you couldn't chip


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## garyinderry (Jun 1, 2017)

bobmac said:



			No wonder you couldn't chip 

Click to expand...

Sorted now my man.   Didnt realise you all had it so easy.


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## bobmac (Jun 1, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Sorted now my man.   Didnt realise you all had it so easy.  

Click to expand...

Very-Easy  :smirk:


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## garyinderry (Jun 1, 2017)

bobmac said:



			Very-Easy  :smirk:
		
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I acutally had a go with one but obviously never got it to function properly. Probably due to my strong left hand grip which allowed it to break down.  

Have a go at this method bob and see what you think.


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## bobmac (Jun 2, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			I acutally had a go with one but obviously never got it to function properly. Probably due to my strong left hand grip which allowed it to break down.  

Have a go at this method bob and see what you think.
		
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There's nothing new about it to try..........
It's all the same as I've been using and teaching for years except for the weird grip to stop the wrists flicking (which it doesn't completely)
If someone has a fault in their technique I would rather fix it than introduce another fault to balance it out.
My concern with this grip is, if you practice alot with it, it could sneak into your full swing. 
But as with all things, if it works for you, go for it.


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## ScienceBoy (Jun 2, 2017)

bobmac said:



			There's nothing new about it to try..........
It's all the same as I've been using and teaching for years except for the weird grip to stop the wrists flicking (which it doesn't completely)
If someone has a fault in their technique I would rather fix it than introduce another fault to balance it out.
My concern with this grip is, if you practice alot with it, it could sneak into your full swing. 
But as with all things, if it works for you, go for it.
		
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I saw the same bob, I think a v-easy was the brilliant for solid chipping.

Like so many videos I see the person "selling" exaggerates faults beyond what the majority do, emphasises the fix with solid fundamental plus their take on what fixes the exaggerated faults.

Most people could take just the fundamental parts and see an improvement just from that refreshment of the basics.


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## garyinderry (Jun 2, 2017)

bobmac said:



			There's nothing new about it to try..........
It's all the same as I've been using and teaching for years except for the weird grip to stop the wrists flicking (which it doesn't completely)
If someone has a fault in their technique I would rather fix it than introduce another fault to balance it out.
My concern with this grip is, if you practice alot with it, it could sneak into your full swing. 
But as with all things, if it works for you, go for it.
		
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It's been around for years.  Certainly not new.   The raised handle has a purpose and allows for super straight shots.  There is a lot less rotation of the face with the upright shaft. 

I'd love the grip to weaken off my left hand for the full swing.  Might go from super strong to neutral.


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## garyinderry (Jun 2, 2017)

ScienceBoy said:



			I saw the same bob, I think a v-easy was the brilliant for solid chipping.

Like so many videos I see the person "selling" exaggerates faults beyond what the majority do, emphasises the fix with solid fundamental plus their take on what fixes the exaggerated faults.

Most people could take just the fundamental parts and see an improvement just from that refreshment of the basics.
		
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Funny you see them as exaggerated faults.  I see it as an improvement on a tried and tested method.  

Go and try it before you knock it.  Already a few people who have woken up to this.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 2, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Go and try it before you knock it.  Already a few people who have woken up to this.
		
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Yep, but only cause you posted it at 7.06 am.


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## garyinderry (Jun 2, 2017)

I'm up at the crack of dawn these days.  

Go on, get into the garden and give this a try. Lol


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## ScienceBoy (Jun 2, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Funny you see them as exaggerated faults.  I see it as an improvement on a tried and tested method.  

Go and try it before you knock it.  Already a few people who have woken up to this.
		
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I don't see the specifics as the fault, talking about the faults that cause people to want to fix their chipping.

I have little doubt I could get this hitting decent chip shots but I think solid fundamentals described give the benefit and the extra stuff is marginal at best.


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## garyinderry (Jun 3, 2017)

ScienceBoy said:



			I don't see the specifics as the fault, talking about the faults that cause people to want to fix their chipping.

I have little doubt I could get this hitting decent chip shots but I think solid fundamentals described give the benefit and the extra stuff is marginal at best.
		
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What does this even mean. 


All I've done is posted a pga hall of famer's chipping technique.  He was short off the tee but by all accounts a legend around the green.  It's up to you if you want to listen to his wise words. 

Many on here have tried the traditional and solid fundamentals that you speak of and failed to improve. This might help. If it does help one person then happy days. It doesn't need any negativity. 

I will ask again, have you tried it?


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## huds1475 (Jun 3, 2017)

Put it into play yesterday with immediate results.

Several queries along the lines of 'how do you play that shot' in the bar.

Winner :thup:


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## garyinderry (Jun 3, 2017)

That's great to hear.  Did you get to try it from  tight lies and semi? 

As I have only have limited practice time so far, I felt more comfortable gettin the handle really upright sitting in semi rough. The toe picking the ball out nicely.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jun 3, 2017)

Pete Cowan is an advocate of the vertical shaft for chipping. Started using this this method a couple of seasons ago and the consistancy of strike has improved.

Have a look at Cowan's 'butterfly' grip for bunker shots, simple to understand and it works.


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## Pancho Villa (Jun 3, 2017)

Hi guys first post from a long time lurker! Just got back from our June Medal and used this chip and run method.i was really pleased with nice crisp chips with good roll.Best chipping for a long time and finished with a net 71 for buffer


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## ScienceBoy (Jun 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			What does this even mean. 

This might help. If it does help one person then happy days. It doesn't need any negativity.
		
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I completely get your point and the method.

I just don't think I have been able to communicate my point very well which has not generated the discussion I intended. Totally my fault for not being able to convey my point.

I will be trying to inplement many points from his videos , of course. I can see many things I know I should be doing but are currently not. This videos explain some fundamentals quite well.

It's pretty much the grip and a few minor things I won't be as I see them as not being beneficial. 

I would love to have a face to face practice green discussion on this, would be a heck of a lot of fun debating all the pros and cons of various methods. No doubt I would learn a few things.


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## garyinderry (Jun 3, 2017)

Exactly bud. 

Dont dismiss the differnt grip. It has huge benifits.  Try it out.  Let me know how you get on. Good or bad. 

Litteraly can't see you not getting some improvement from it. 

Nothing to lose.


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## ScienceBoy (Jun 3, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Nothing to lose.
		
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I do also take bobs point, I am working hard on the fundamenals at the moment. I see them as the key to a better game.

Grip is a big thing for me as it is going to allow a better position at the top of the backswing, my poor grip is pushing my right elbow out like that old irish pro did...


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## El Diablo (Jun 3, 2017)

Simon Holmes used to have a website and his chipping method was upright club heel off the ground but I cannot recall the grip adjustment being part of it. 

Doubt that was used by Faldo when he was coaching him !


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## garyinderry (Jun 3, 2017)

Certain grip positions have merits in the full swing as it tends to have the face either open or closed.  It's why we either strengthen  or weaken the grip a touch from neutral depending on  what shot shape you are getting. 

The beauty of the this grip and raised handle is it keeps the face square for as long as


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 4, 2017)

Having tried this a bit more, including on the course I can confirm it is indeed possible to hit bad shots with this method. There is no doubt it is a valid method but it isn't a miracle cure. I'm sure with practice I could make it work, but then with practice I'm sure I can make any method work. To be honest, this method feels awkward when compared to more traditional methods.

I think I actually stumbled across the root of my issues yesterday...watch this space...


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2017)

Very interesting. 

I personally think that chipping is the best part of my game, especially around the greens, which it has to be as I don't hit anywhere near enough greens in regulation so it's my chipping that gets me my pars and nett pars to keep me in the round. 

However, if anything can improve even the smallest areas of our game then it's well worth the effort and giving it a go. 

Good post & thread &#128077;&#9971;&#65039;


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## Wabinez (Jun 4, 2017)

Decided to use this feel today...didnt bother with the grip etc, but the feel of the toe being 'down' at address, and early indications show decent results. Got up and down from a variety of lies and variety of shots. Will stick with it for a bit for sure!


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## garyinderry (Jun 4, 2017)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Having tried this a bit more, including on the course I can confirm it is indeed possible to hit bad shots with this method. There is no doubt it is a valid method but it isn't a miracle cure. I'm sure with practice I could make it work, but then with practice I'm sure I can make any method work. To be honest, this method feels awkward when compared to more traditional methods.

I think I actually stumbled across the root of my issues yesterday...watch this space...
		
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What is the root problem?  Would love to get a look at your chipping action. 

I think a good thing to do is to get set up as previously mentioned, the take a few strokes brushing the turf. I find this makes sure I don't make a Duffy contact.


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## garyinderry (Jun 4, 2017)

Got back from england in good time so me and lads nipped out for 13 holes. 

Used this 3 times and it was so easy.  Clipped one over a bunker to 3 feet with my 56. 8i run up the slope again to a couple of feet tap in.  Even a 60 with very little green to work with in to 4 feet. 

Absolutly delighted. This is taking my short game to the next level. Simplicity in itself. 

For those dipping their toes in, try to work with the grip.  It's a key element. Maybe you don't need to go as extreme as I do but do try slightly weak left, stronger right.


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## garyinderry (Jun 5, 2017)

Simon Holmes 

[video=youtube;PFMhlBJf8fI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFMhlBJf8fI[/video]


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## garyinderry (Jun 5, 2017)

Henrick's coach

[video=youtube;ytI1mpKQb4g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytI1mpKQb4g&t=140s[/video]


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## garyinderry (Jun 5, 2017)

[video=youtube;vKRHU9wUCLs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKRHU9wUCLs[/video]

Luke Donald adjusts his grip. He has a fairly neutral grip for full shots and even he changes it for these types of shots.


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## Khamelion (Jun 5, 2017)

I had a lesson with Brian Ridley up at Beamish a couple of months back, where he got me to stand taller, have the shaft more vertical and use in effect a putting style stroke to chip the ball, he told me that:-


I stood to wide
I had the ball too far back
The shaft was leaning too far forward 
I generally stood too far from the ball. 


So, with chipping my feet are not much more than a club head width apart, the ball is inline with my trouser zip, so central, shaft is central and I stand closer to the ball which in turn means the club is pushed forward more vertical with the heel off the ground as a few have mentioned above.

In addition to chipping like this now, I also try to use when possible the Runyan rule of 12's


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## Khamelion (Jun 5, 2017)

Me chipping using the method I described above

[video=youtube_share;B-5GE0a6cPI]https://youtu.be/B-5GE0a6cPI[/video]


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## JohnnyDee (Jun 5, 2017)

Late to the party on this thread but it looks of considerable interest to me as I am a bit flaky when chipping. 

Gary, how far out could it be used? (I mean with a clear line to the flag and not having to fly a bunker etc. 10-15 yards?) Although in your own first video from that green-side position I'd be happy to putt and expect to get a pretty good percentage of up and downs plus even the odd hole out.


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## the_coach (Jun 5, 2017)

this is something that has been around & used for a good bunch of time (something have spoken to in short game posts before - & pretty sure it's a topic 'bobmac' has mentioned before also)

in essence it's all just about havin the club that's been used in a more upright vertical shaft position - so more echoes a putting stroke as folks have to stand a little closer to the ball - so can utilize more of a putting hold & in doin so it helps take the wrist action out of the 'smaller stroke length ' while also making the clubhead movement have less curvature in the arc of travel so could also help folks who tend to as a habit whip the club too far inside 

but it's only for sure about the smaller chip distances off of the green  - it's not a technique to fly obstacles where you need the wrists to set & release

some folks even use this technique with their putting stroke to help eliminate wrist action - so standing tad closer to ball shaft more vertical with the heel off of the ground as doin so arches (ulnar deviation) & more 'locks out' wrist involvement
probably highest profile user of this in putting is Stricker

with this chipping method also got to take care with the lie of the ball in terms of slope
 with the heel up toe down can easy snag the toe from uneven lies 
also got to assess with some care if dealing with various depths of rough whether this method is the best choice


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## garyinderry (Jun 5, 2017)

JohnnyDee said:



			Late to the party on this thread but it looks of considerable interest to me as I am a bit flaky when chipping. 

Gary, how far out could it be used? (I mean with a clear line to the flag and not having to fly a bunker etc. 10-15 yards?) Although in your own first video from that green-side position I'd be happy to putt and expect to get a pretty good percentage of up and downs plus even the odd hole out.
		
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I just took this video at the putting green to show the technique. You could putt those all day long. 

I am just back from another round therefore a little more time using this and I can confirm its the best thing since sliced bread. 

I had the opportunity to use a 7, pw and even 60 today.  Worked brilliant every time. 


Sure, if you are 15 yards from the green and nothing in front, there is nothing to stop you using this technique and clip it up there using anything from 4 iron up.   a video that was on YouTube but since deleted showed Jim furyk doing just that. 

The best thing though is to select the club that lifts the ball onto the surface so you can predict the line and just swing a little harder for distance like you would on a long putt.


I came up short to a front pin today.  Say 5 yards on and I was maybe the same away.  I just lifted it onto the surface with a 60 and it tickled up to the hole.


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## garyinderry (Jun 5, 2017)

Khamelion said:



			Me chipping using the method I described above

[video=youtube_share;B-5GE0a6cPI]https://youtu.be/B-5GE0a6cPI[/video]
		
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That looks pretty tidy but you are missing the added benefit of Runyan's grip.  This is evident on that left wrist breaking down. 

As coach says there, the wrist gets locked out by the grip. There is no breaking down.


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## Khamelion (Jun 5, 2017)

Yeah the left wrist and the slight scooping action, is an old flaw of mine, Brian did notice that as well during the lesson but wasn't to concerned. The idea is that you keep the V shape in your arms, which is easier said than done with a old ingrained fault, but it is getting better.


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## garyinderry (Jun 7, 2017)

Here is Mr Watson getting in on the act. He says he got it from watching Ray Floyd. 

[video=youtube;3CRtyUf_Ks4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CRtyUf_Ks4[/video]


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## garyinderry (Jul 21, 2017)

[video=youtube;0Xbx3Putg2Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xbx3Putg2Y&t=3s[/video]


Chris Ryan showing this simple technique.



Its been around 8 weeks since I've started using this type of shot.  Feels like its been a part of my game forever.


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