# Shots within 50 yards



## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

Was going to say chipping but I’d probably say when it gets to 30 yards+ it’s probably a pitch?!?

Anyway I am pretty garbage from this range and it’s where I need to work on... have used 6-8-10 method for chipping with various degree of success but I’d really like the nail down exactly where my weakness is and wondering if there are any scoring programmes devised to evaluate which part(s) of this facet i suck at....

Is it landing spot? Is it trajectory? Is it judging roll out? Or both and so club selection?

Or actually is getting it to 10 feet from 20 yards good and my perception is wrong? 

Also a 20 yard low running chip from fairway is different from a short sided 20 yard over a bunker in a scruffy lie so there’s millions of variables 

My course is a good course but it doesn’t have a good actual green you can practice chipping on(with proper roll out) so can practice landing point no bother but how ball reacts is another thing. So was thinking if there was some sort of scoring programme could evaluate on course when these shots come up and then at the end say ok I’m pretty good at landing spot but I’m not judging trajectory and roll out any good.

Also are there any books dedicated to only this that would give me better insight/perception on this part of the game. I’m off 14 and feel it’s this part of the game that could get me to single figures.


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## patricks148 (Jun 10, 2020)

i think the key with this is practice practice practice, even if its just in the garden. Also to do this with diff clubs ie try diff shots with one club, high/low, run stop.

also used to chip into an old brolly then down to a bucket of water.

i don't tend to use the clock system, for me it was all about feel


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

What ball do you use?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2020)

Bit closer, but good little vid.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270098939925200898


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

bobmac said:



			What ball do you use?
		
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Pro v1x


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			i think the key with this is practice practice practice, even if its just in the garden. Also to do this with diff clubs ie try diff shots with one club, high/low, run stop.

also used to chip into an old brolly then down to a bucket of water.

i don't tend to use the clock system, for me it was all about feel
		
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Thanks Patrick I probably don’t practice enough due to time constraints... lockdown has allowed me to buy a chipping net and have gotten respectable but garden only allows for 10 yard chips.

I use the clock method for pitching and feel I’m actually pretty good with it but lowest distance I have is 42 yard carry as it’s a pitching drill. It’s the closer feel based ones I struggle.


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## patricks148 (Jun 10, 2020)

turkish said:



			Thanks Patrick I probably don’t practice enough due to time constraints... lockdown has allowed me to buy a chipping net and have gotten respectable but garden only allows for 10 yard chips.

I use the clock method for pitching and feel I’m actually pretty good with it but lowest distance I have is 42 yard carry as it’s a pitching drill. It’s the closer feel based ones I struggle.
		
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is there anywhere you could go for half an hour ?

i'm lucky in that we have a big garden, but even before we moved here i went in a field behind the cottage we rented and chipped into the Brolly. but i would do this a hour a day at least, sometimes longer.

the more you practice the more benefit it will have in the long run, all those years when i did this are still paying off now, i don't really bother much now as Nairn you don't often have to from the edge of the green, but i can still get it close..most of the time anyway.

its good you are using the same ball all the time as i've found some run out way more than others.


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## clubchamp98 (Jun 10, 2020)

Do you practice with the ball you play with ,Pro v1x.
I find lots of golfers practice with any balls they find.
Me to for long game , but I keep a klicka tube of pro v1x to practice my short game.
You then get a consistent feel for what it will and won’t do spin wise..

For me it’s all in the strike you must strike a short shot well to do what you want it to do.
But no substitute for practice it’s the only way.


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## Maninblack4612 (Jun 10, 2020)

turkish said:



*Was going to say chipping but I’d probably say when it gets to 30 yards+ it’s probably a pitch?!?*

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Length is not the definition. A chip travels mostly on the ground, a pitch goes in the air, a chip can be longer than a pitch. The technique is different. With a chip you break the wrists on the backswing & hold them on the downswing. With a pitch you release the club fully on the way down, with the clubhead passing the grip end of the club, using the bounce to achieve a good impact. All explained in "The Art of the Short Game by Stan Utley. It's a great little book & deals with the questions you ask.


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## Maninblack4612 (Jun 10, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Sorry, way too many generalisations in there, chips and pitches can both be played in a variety of ways.

To the OP, you can get some ideas off the Web, but just like how to run faster, how to be a better darts, snooker, football, cricket etc etc etc player, you won't achieve anything without practice.
		
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Stans an expert, he holds the record for the lowest number of putts for 9 holes on the PGA Tour, 7, including two holed bunker shots. He only teaches one chipping & one pitching method, which he says are the most reliable way to get the ball near to the hole. Certainly worth a look, he has some vids on YouTube.


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

turkish said:



			I use the clock method for pitching and feel I’m actually pretty good with it but lowest distance I have is 42 yard carry as it’s a pitching drill. It’s the closer feel based ones I struggle.
		
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Do you hold the grip at the top, middle or bottom or do you vary it?


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Do you hold the grip at the top, middle or bottom or do you vary it?
		
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Hi bob I pretty much always grip right at the bottom just before the metal as feel like I have better control. Especially for chipping

With my pitching and clock method I usually always try to grip at the bottom but if I get a distance that doesn’t suit what I have for the club I want to use I will move where I grip Up dependant on if I need a bit more distance but that’s really for 50 yard+ shots.


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

turkish said:



			Hi bob I pretty much always grip right at the bottom just before the metal as feel like I have better control. Especially for chipping

With my pitching and clock method I usually always try to grip at the bottom but if I get a distance that doesn’t suit what I have for the club I want to use I will move where I grip Up dependant on if I need a bit more distance but that’s really for 50 yard+ shots.
		
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How long is your follow through and do you vary which club you use?


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Certainly not doubting his credentials but to say that there is one way to play a chip and one way to play a pitch is just too one-dimensional.
And anyway, without practice no "method" is really relevant.
		
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I agree


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

bobmac said:



			How long is your follow through and do you vary which club you use?
		
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Hi bob I usually try to match my follow through to the length of backswing but not sure I always stick to it and have tried 1 club method and various clubs and I’m not sure which is best for me. With 6-8-10 method it’s various but sometimes I’m poor with that and don’t judge landing spot or roll out quite so good. Other times it works well but the same could be said for using 1 club when it’s on it’s good. As a general rule I’ll try and get it on the ground as early as I can though and will generally leave a margin for error if there is something like a bunker between ball and flag. 

What would you say would be a good distance to leave a putt from chips for 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 yards?

I know a lot will depend on lie, required trajectory, green speeds, undulations etc


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

Last question I promise, do you take a divot when hitting these shots?


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

I try not to


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

turkish said:



			I try not to
		
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Bingo.
It sounds like everything else is good  except no divot.
If you take a divot (even a little one) with a lofted club (GW/SW/LW), the ball will spin more and stop quicker so less run out to worry about.



turkish said:



			What would you say would be a good distance to leave a putt from chips for 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 yards?
		
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If those distances are to the hole, Id be trying to hole 10,15 and 20 but would accept a tap in. 25-30 would be no further than 4-5 feet.


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## jim8flog (Jun 10, 2020)

I have only two variations between a pitch and a chip and run

The first is the choice of club and the second is ball position.

For pitches the choice is either a 52 (low bounce) or a 54 (high bounce) depending on the lie.

For chip and runs I use anything from a 7 and to a 52 and the ball will normally be a bit further back in the stance compared to a pitch.

For distance control I use the clock method.

Like the OP our club does not have decent short game practice facilities for anything other greenside shots or long pitches in to very small greens with grass that is on the long side.


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## jim8flog (Jun 10, 2020)

turkish said:



			Hi bob I usually try to match my follow through to the length of backswing but not sure I always stick to it and have tried 1 club method and various clubs and I’m not sure which is best for me. With 6-8-10 method it’s various but sometimes I’m poor with that and don’t judge landing spot or roll out quite so good. Other times it works well but the same could be said for using 1 club when it’s on it’s good. As a general rule I’ll try and get it on the ground as early as I can though and will generally leave a margin for error if there is something like a bunker between ball and flag.

What would you say would be a good distance to leave a putt from chips for 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 yards?

I know a lot will depend on lie, required trajectory, green speeds, undulations etc
		
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10 15 20 yards are the sort of distances that you should be looking to hole the ball and at worst leaving a single putt distance.


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

Thanks bob I’ll give that a try. I think I try to take little to no diviot so there’s less chance of chunking it and even if a little fat can still get a decent result.

Going by your expectations I’m way off being any good tho so I must find a way to practice more.

I’m going to keep a record of all my chips and try and identify where I’m going most wrong. I think my technique is not bad it’s probably breaking down in A mixture of tempo and speed and length of backswing plus possibly club selection


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

My advice would be, learn how to hit a standard 50 yrd pitch shot.
Get that perfected so which club, which grip position, which lenth of swing.
Then play around with variations for different lengths so 40 yards...one club less. 60 yards one club more. Move the grip up and down and see how much difference that makes.
And if you want, write down your distances for each club and carry it with you or tape it to the shafts.
As others have said, it takes practice but it will give you confidence which breeds confidence.
If you don't have the time then just perfect the standard 50 and go from there.


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## jim8flog (Jun 10, 2020)

If your club has a practice ground rather than a range-

Years ago one of my practice drills was to place a flag at 100 yards
Hit ten balls to the flag with a 52 wedge walk forward 10 yards and hit 10 balls to the flag
Repeat

and other drill was to place the flag at 100 yards
Hit 10 balls at the flag with a 3 iron
Hit 10 balls at the flag with a 4 iron
and so on down through all the irons.


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			If your club has a practice ground rather than a range-

Years ago one of my practice drills was to place a flag at 100 yards
Hit ten balls to the flag with a 52 wedge walk forward 10 yards and hit 10 balls to the flag
Repeat

and other drill was to place the flag at 100 yards
Hit 10 balls at the flag with a 3 iron
Hit 10 balls at the flag with a 4 iron
and so on down through all the irons.
		
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How would this help with chipping? I should maybe have titled the thread 30 yards and in as it’s generally where I think I’m relatively poor in. Certainly not hitting 30 yards to 3-5 feet regularly. Probably on average 10-12 feet then 2 putting a bunch.

And I know you could say putt better from 10 feet but that’s another thread and tour pros only make 30% of those.


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Pitching and chipping is a strong point for me and I generally try to take absolutely zero divot.
		
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So you must have a fairly shallow angle of attack?


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## patricks148 (Jun 10, 2020)

bobmac said:



			So you must have a fairly shallow angle of attack?
		
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Bob do you ever find Grip pressure as an effect on if it spins or not?


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			Bob do you ever find Grip pressure as an effect on if it spins or not?
		
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If you have soft grip pressure then your wrist could hinge a bit more, increasing the speed and therefore the spin but not by much I'd guess.
Soft grip pressure is definitely preferable for these short shots


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## patricks148 (Jun 10, 2020)

bobmac said:



			If you have soft grip pressure then your wrist could hinge a bit more, increasing the speed and therefore the spin but not by much I'd guess.
Soft grip pressure is definitely preferable for these short shots
		
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must just be me then, as i've found if i have a very lite gripn it rolls out more and use that for any running shots where if i grip harder i tend to get it to spin more!


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## bobmac (Jun 10, 2020)

Traminator said:



			I make it as shallow as possible, helps with consistent loft and therefore trajectory, distance and spin.
		
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Presumably you'd need to change that technique in longer grass


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## Neilds (Jun 10, 2020)

Are you being too harsh on yourself and expecting too much?Also, those who say they are looking to hole from inside 25 yards may be using the equivalent of forum driving distances 😀

Looking at the PGA Tour stats for 2020, only 1 person is within 10’ average from inside 100 yards.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02329.html


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## jim8flog (Jun 10, 2020)

Neilds said:



			Are you being too harsh on yourself and expecting too much?Also, those who say they are looking to hole from inside 25 yards may be using the equivalent of forum driving distances 😀

Looking at the PGA Tour stats for 2020, only 1 person is within 10’ average from inside 100 yards.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02329.html

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One of the things about the stats on the PGA tour and others is to look at how often they take the measurement. Looking at the number of rounds and the number of attempts is very important


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## jim8flog (Jun 10, 2020)

turkish said:



			How would this help with chipping? I should maybe have titled the thread 30 yards and in as it’s generally where I think I’m relatively poor in. Certainly not hitting 30 yards to 3-5 feet regularly. Probably on average 10-12 feet then 2 putting a bunch.

And I know you could say putt better from 10 feet but that’s another thread and tour pros only make 30% of those.
		
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It is just a very good way of practising distance control, which If I understand your OP you are saying is the problem. It does not have to be from 100 yards it can be from 50 downwards. The reason I did it a lot is because I thought it a better way than say hitting 50 balls to exactly the same distance.


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

As I said I feel I am relatively good with the clock method pretty much from 100 yards to 40 yards. When it gets lower than this I just think I’m pretty garbage.

Ps regarding how often measurements are taken I’m pretty sure all shots are now recorded on the PGA tour by use of shotlink so is extremely accurate


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## turkish (Jun 10, 2020)

Neilds said:



			Are you being too harsh on yourself and expecting too much?Also, those who say they are looking to hole from inside 25 yards may be using the equivalent of forum driving distances 😀

Looking at the PGA Tour stats for 2020, only 1 person is within 10’ average from inside 100 yards.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02329.html

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yeah the more I’ve thought about it even on a 20 yard putt (60 feet) I could only dream of averaging leaving it 3 feet nEver mind chipping (possibly over bunkers or ridges).

I do love my stats so would love to know in handicap brackets how often people get up and down from these distances and also what their leave is in terms of distance but can’t find anything.

I use arccos which has me getting up and down from within 50 yards 25% of the time but that’s pretty vague as groups 10 yard chips in with 50 yard pitches


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 10, 2020)

A different approach perhaps but working nicely for me....... well until last weekend. Back to the video for me and working on it on the practice ground


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## SGC001 (Jun 11, 2020)

turkish said:



			Was going to say chipping but I’d probably say when it gets to 30 yards+ it’s probably a pitch?!?

Anyway I am pretty garbage from this range and it’s where I need to work on... have used 6-8-10 method for chipping with various degree of success but I’d really like the nail down exactly where my weakness is and wondering if there are any scoring programmes devised to evaluate which part(s) of this facet i suck at....

Is it landing spot? Is it trajectory? Is it judging roll out? Or both and so club selection?

Or actually is getting it to 10 feet from 20 yards good and my perception is wrong?

Also a 20 yard low running chip from fairway is different from a short sided 20 yard over a bunker in a scruffy lie so there’s millions of variables

My course is a good course but it doesn’t have a good actual green you can practice chipping on(with proper roll out) so can practice landing point no bother but how ball reacts is another thing. So was thinking if there was some sort of scoring programme could evaluate on course when these shots come up and then at the end say ok I’m pretty good at landing spot but I’m not judging trajectory and roll out any good.

Also are there any books dedicated to only this that would give me better insight/perception on this part of the game. I’m off 14 and feel it’s this part of the game that could get me to single figures.
		
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Stats
Kite got himself down from 15% pe to 5% for his short game as measured by pelz. That equates to a 30 yard shot leaving 1.5 yards which is top draw pga pro.
Broady median leaving distance in feet from fairway at 10y 20y 30y for average pro, 80 golfer 90 golfer,100 golfer 4 5 6 6 feet, 5 6 7 10 feet, 6 8 12 16 feet 
so 10% ish to under pe average pro 
At 80 golfer its 12.5% to 17.5%ish 
So at 14 if u get your percentage error to 15% i.e. from 30 yards to 4.5 yards or 12.5 feet u r ahead of the game.

Pelz has short game handicap games where u can work out where you are with his scoring system.

Pelz, utley pretty good short game books for techniqie and info.

Is 6 8 10 just using those clubs?

Rule of 12 for chipping using trajectory over spin to control distance very easy and transferable to different course conditions. Google it but effectively sw ratio roll to carry is 1 to 1, pw 2 to 1 9 iron 3 to 1, 8 iron 4 to 1... Massage it a bit for conditions.

General errors in chipping or pitching come from understanding and technique. Again generallt people dont understand how far the balls roll out and tske a backwing thats too long then get quitty and technical problems arise from a lack of understanding.
Other common errors include flicking or trying to help the ball up often coming from the body slowing down and shooting the hands past if the body is even used at all. Golf clubs have loft and are designed to be presented with hands level or ahead of the clubhead at impact.


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## jim8flog (Jun 11, 2020)

turkish said:



			I do love my stats so would love to know in handicap brackets how often people get up and down from these distances and also what their leave is in terms of distance but can’t find anything.

s
		
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On a personal level I had a far better short game as 16 handicap than I did as a 6 handicap. Anything within about 30 yards and particularly green side  I was always looking to either get it in or up and down in two. Although the 'get it ins' would probably have been about 1 in 10 at best.

Two reasons - I practiced more as a 16 handicap and I missed more greens in reg so got to hit the shots more often in actual rounds.

I have never been a stats keeper so cannot tell you them but always felt that up down in 2 or better was more often than up and down in 3 or worse.  These days it is probably about 40% to 60%


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## turkish (Jun 11, 2020)

SGC001 said:



			Stats
Kite got himself down from 15% pe to 5% for his short game as measured by pelz. That equates to a 30 yard shot leaving 1.5 yards which is top draw pga pro.
Broady median leaving distance in feet from fairway at 10y 20y 30y for average pro, 80 golfer 90 golfer,100 golfer 4 5 6 6 feet, 5 6 7 10 feet, 6 8 12 16 feet
so 10% ish to under pe average pro
At 80 golfer its 12.5% to 17.5%ish
So at 14 if u get your percentage error to 15% i.e. from 30 yards to 4.5 yards or 12.5 feet u r ahead of the game.

Pelz has short game handicap games where u can work out where you are with his scoring system.

Pelz, utley pretty good short game books for techniqie and info.

Is 6 8 10 just using those clubs?

Rule of 12 for chipping using trajectory over spin to control distance very easy and transferable to different course conditions. Google it but effectively sw ratio roll to carry is 1 to 1, pw 2 to 1 9 iron 3 to 1, 8 iron 4 to 1... Massage it a bit for conditions.

General errors in chipping or pitching come from understanding and technique. Again generallt people dont understand how far the balls roll out and tske a backwing thats too long then get quitty and technical problems arise from a lack of understanding.
Other common errors include flicking or trying to help the ball up often coming from the body slowing down and shooting the hands past if the body is even used at all. Golf clubs have loft and are designed to be presented with hands level or ahead of the clubhead at impact.
		
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Thanks for this. I have broadies book I’ll need to revisit it. 

I have just bought James sieckmanns shortbgame book too going to have a look at that.

I had a game today and recorded my shots from 100 yards and in and going by your % thing was at 12.58% over 15 shots but it was skewed somewhere as 2 chips (25 & 30 yards) were duffed giving me a second chip to do which I both stiffed to a foot. 

Also confirmed that my longer pitches are relatively good as between 50-100 yards they were all under 10% so it’s the finesse ones that are closer I need to get better with which I already thought so it’s good to now have a benchmark to work off of.


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## turkish (Jun 11, 2020)

Also sgc001 the 6-8-10 method isn’t just those clubs you adjust accordingly for slope and green speeds but interestingly the ratios are different from what you have.

You have sw as a 1:1 ratio but on 6-8-10 it says PW(10) should be flown halfway and roll the other half, 8 flown 1/3 and 6 is 1/4.

As I said assuming flat normal speed greens and adjust accordingly for downhill/uphill lies with green speed also taken into account.


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## SGC001 (Jun 11, 2020)

Ok so its ratios too with every other club so your doung that anyway, just work out your own ratio.

Pick a landing zone, mark it out with tee pegs or whatever and chip and see how far it rolls out. Repeat with other clubs.

Move landing zone and recheck

Its useful to minimise spin and use trajectory to control distance to keep roll distances more predictable as the 1st bounce can cause variation and some greens will take spin better than others. If u onlt play 1 course no issue, but if u play others u can get caught out.

Rule of 12 is pretty common

https://www.google.com/amp/s/progolfnow.com/2019/02/06/golf-tips-chipping-rule-12/amp/






Edit. They say 12 - 1 = 11
12-9 =3 but ratios is easier to remember and see imo.

Edit 2. So technique wise i'm using an extremely shallow to level angle of attack, i'm using the full loft of the club as its designed in relation to the shaft with no extra forward lean at impact and to allow this my ball position is fairly neutral. I like utleys stuff or even bits of gary smiths linear approach as preferences to meet the trajectory led technique i'm using. As indicated though there just preferences and there are nany ways to skin a cat.


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## garyinderry (Jun 16, 2020)

It can be hard to judge for people especially when you factor in a baked english summer course. 

When it rains and softens up the landing zone and run out is more predictable. 

The dryer and firmer the course is I tend to cut myself more slack. 2 similar shots can have very differnt outcomes. All it takes is it to land and take a forward bounce and you may run many feet past the hole.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			It can be hard to judge for people especially when you factor in a baked english summer course.

When it rains and softens up the landing zone and run out is more predictable.

The dryer and firmer the course is I tend to cut myself more slack. 2 similar shots can have very differnt outcomes. All it takes is it to land and take a forward bounce and you may run many feet past the hole.
		
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I get your point but where possible I always try and land my approach on the green wherever possible whether the course is hard baked or softened by rain. It tends to give a more predictable first bounce (although I accept some greens are more contoured than others)


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2020)

Traminator said:



			I spent about an hour and a half today hitting blocks of 20 balls, all from within 50 yards of the practice hole.
Pitches, chips, lobs, bunkers, high, low, fairway, rough, lush lie, bare lie, uphill, sidehill, downhill blah blah blah 😴 😴

All well and good quoting "methods", YouTube etc etc to get some ideas, nothing wrong with that, but the only way you will improve is practice, practice, practice, and probably at least one or more decent one to one lesson.

There's no YouTube video can swing the club for you when you have 46 yards carry on the 15th hole with a good card going...
		
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Have to agree. I struggle with my short game so it's an area I need to work on and you need to try different shots and lies and especially different distances. So often I'll see someone chipping on the putting green (allowed) and make sure each one is on a nice fluffy lie. Get them on the course and chuck in a bare lie and they panic


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## Papas1982 (Jun 16, 2020)

This is a part of my game I have massively neglected in the last year. I reckon from inside 50 yards I’ll get up and down once a round maybe. I don’t tend to chunk or thin chips, but no real feel for what will get me close. My irons in recent weeks have saved me As I’ve been hitting more greens but feel that if I wanna make a move on my handicap This is where it will be.

sorry, that doesn’t help at all. I concur with the last to responses. Practice is the only way you will improve.


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## turkish (Jun 25, 2020)

SGC001 said:



			Stats
Kite got himself down from 15% pe to 5% for his short game as measured by pelz. That equates to a 30 yard shot leaving 1.5 yards which is top draw pga pro.
Broady median leaving distance in feet from fairway at 10y 20y 30y for average pro, 80 golfer 90 golfer,100 golfer 4 5 6 6 feet, 5 6 7 10 feet, 6 8 12 16 feet
so 10% ish to under pe average pro
At 80 golfer its 12.5% to 17.5%ish
So at 14 if u get your percentage error to 15% i.e. from 30 yards to 4.5 yards or 12.5 feet u r ahead of the game.

Pelz has short game handicap games where u can work out where you are with his scoring system.

Pelz, utley pretty good short game books for techniqie and info.

Is 6 8 10 just using those clubs?

Rule of 12 for chipping using trajectory over spin to control distance very easy and transferable to different course conditions. Google it but effectively sw ratio roll to carry is 1 to 1, pw 2 to 1 9 iron 3 to 1, 8 iron 4 to 1... Massage it a bit for conditions.

General errors in chipping or pitching come from understanding and technique. Again generallt people dont understand how far the balls roll out and tske a backwing thats too long then get quitty and technical problems arise from a lack of understanding.
Other common errors include flicking or trying to help the ball up often coming from the body slowing down and shooting the hands past if the body is even used at all. Golf clubs have loft and are designed to be presented with hands level or ahead of the clubhead at impact.
		
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 After about 50 shots of 100 yards and in I’m at a PE of 18.25%. Some of which are caused by duffs and thins and some are caused by terrible scruffy lies I’m not sure if I should be including them?


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## SGC001 (Jun 28, 2020)

turkish said:



			After about 50 shots of 100 yards and in I’m at a PE of 18.25%. Some of which are caused by duffs and thins and some are caused by terrible scruffy lies I’m not sure if I should be including them?
		
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You'd include them all in that. Its a fairway stat, others are available for rough etc. If u notice u struggle of bad or awkward lies, its something to work on and if practically all your bad ones are coming off bad lies its a big clue.

Iffy lies may requure a different technique or be showing up a technique flaw. Fats (usually what people mean by duff but maybe shank could count) and thins tend to suggest certain technique issues are worth investigating. Similarly whats your idea of a bad lie may not be the same as someone elses.

Again u may be been hard on yourself, but if the duffs and thins are too many, you may well have identified where you need to address 1st.

Lies, damned lies and statistics 

Median is a very generous stat in this context particuarly as handicaps go up, as complete duffs and hortors effectively get chucked out so your median shouldnt be getting overly affected.

Practice and skills tests are best when personalised. 

Pelzs scoring tests to handicap are reasonable as its based on probabilities of holing your next shot, but a zeri pointer from say 20ft left to 30 yards left isnt telling you everything. Even a mean can hide this a bit.

You could do total footage left, still lacks without context. You could count your worst 5 a bit like a yellowsome or worst ball scramble. Whether thats appropriate depends on the data set and peoples standards (ate all shots average but not great, are 5 great 3 average, 2 awful). For better players whos having big issues with 1 or 2 balls you need to find a system that brings them in as they will reflect ability to score.


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