# Putter Fitting



## Biggleswade Blue (May 18, 2019)

Hi all

I've decided that the gains from a better putting technique and confidence will be the biggest help in improving my scores at the moment.  I will gain more from cutting out three putts, and getting the odd one putt than I will from a slightly straighter or longer drive, though I am convinced (after the GM Woburn Day) that a fitting a new driver to replace my off the shelf G20 would help too, just not as much at the moment.  That's for another day.

I'm going to have a lesson, followed by a fitting (if it's needed - many of the reviews where fittings were booked said he wouldn't sell them a new putter, but adjusted their existing one, which seems good to me, even if it just improves my confidence with my existing one.)  I use a 34" Odyssey White Ice Dart.  The chap I'm going to, Ed Morton is well reviewed over the years on here, offers SAM Putt Lab and Quintic Ball Roll.  What are they?  His brands are Odyssey, Envroll and Seemore.  

If the outcome is that I keep my existing putter but have a more repeatable setup and stroke (which feels a bit haphazard at the moment) I'll be delighted too. 

Any advice for me to make the most of it all?


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## duncan mackie (May 18, 2019)

Sounds a very sensible route and that you have considered the key issues now, and going forwards.

Be prepared to put some work into it, at least for a few weeks after the session, and or Equipement change/modification.

I'm sure it will go well.


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## fundy (May 18, 2019)

If youre going to see Ed just go with an open mind and let him go through the process with you. He has an excellent facility and is excellent both as a coach and a fitter, as well as being good fun and a decent bloke. Relax and enjoy!

Samputt is basically trackman for putting, cameras will monitor your stroke and provide lots of data on swing length, spreed, time, putter path, loft, angle, contact etc. All the data comes up instantly on the computer

Quintic basically does the same for the ball (and maybe the clubhead too)

Together it gives all the scientific data you need to improve your putting stroke and work out what putter fits you best (or gives it to Ed who will then interpret and advise)


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## Biggleswade Blue (May 18, 2019)

duncan mackie said:



			Sounds a very sensible route and that you have considered the key issues now, and going forwards.

Be prepared to put some work into it, at least for a few weeks after the session, and or Equipement change/modification.

I'm sure it will go well.
		
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Thanks and good advice I think. Not much point in having lessons but not practicing. Always a struggle when time limited, but putting can be easily practised indoors.


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## Biggleswade Blue (May 18, 2019)

fundy said:



			If youre going to see Ed just go with an open mind and let him go through the process with you. He has an excellent facility and is excellent both as a coach and a fitter, as well as being good fun and a decent bloke. Relax and enjoy!

Samputt is basically trackman for putting, cameras will monitor your stroke and provide lots of data on swing length, spreed, time, putter path, loft, angle, contact etc. All the data comes up instantly on the computer

Quintic basically does the same for the ball (and maybe the clubhead too)

Together it gives all the scientific data you need to improve your putting stroke and work out what putter fits you best (or gives it to Ed who will then interpret and advise)
		
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Thanks for the explanation. That sounds awesome!  I love a bit of science and maths!

I spoke with him when doing some non-golf work for his wife and he seemed a top bloke. I looked him up online and heâ€™s clearly well thought of.


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## User20204 (May 18, 2019)

I think you may be kidding yourself on a bit. Yes things may improve but longer straighter drives gives you better and nearer options to the green which in turn allows you to his the ball nearer to the hole, strokes gained has proved all of this.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 18, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I think you may be kidding yourself on a bit. Yes things may improve but longer straighter drives gives you better and nearer options to the green which in turn allows you to his the ball nearer to the hole, strokes gained has proved all of this.
		
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Many don't even bother to collect stats and play for fun so strokes gained are irrelevant to them and I would suggest visibly seeing more putts drop and less three putts would lead to increased confidence and that will eventually feed into other areas


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## User20204 (May 18, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Many don't even bother to collect stats and play for fun so strokes gained are irrelevant to them and I would suggest visibly seeing more putts drop and less three putts would lead to increased confidence and that will eventually feed into other areas
		
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It's not about collecting stats, I'm saying, statistically strokes are gained by better and longer driving which feeds down through ones game, tis a proven fact, or to put it another way, how many short hitters on tour are high up the money earning compared to long hitters ? facts are facts so folk need to understand, yes you can score better if a few putts drop but, well actually nevermind cause if I've got this far and you haven't got it you're unlikely to.


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## Biggleswade Blue (May 19, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I think you may be kidding yourself on a bit. Yes things may improve but longer straighter drives gives you better and nearer options to the green which in turn allows you to his the ball nearer to the hole, strokes gained has proved all of this.
		
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There are definitely plenty of gains to be had in my long game too and of course you are right - a bit of extra distance, and a bit less dispersion makes it easier to get on the green, and to get nearer the hole, which makes my putting look better.  Rounds where I chip well, I appear to take fewer putts - but it's not because I'm putting better, I am just getting chips closer to hole.

However, looking at stats and taking advice from significantly better playing partners and fellow competitors who have watched me play, I do perceive putting as a weakness.  I just reckon that with less opportunity to practice that, the potential gains are relatively small when compared to the potential gains to be made from putting, which my circumstances means will be much easier to practice.  Even if all it does is make me more confident on putting!


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## User20204 (May 19, 2019)

Holing a few extra putts per round will smarten things up no end I absolutely agree, all I'm saying is, the strokes gained has proved that the old saying drive for show putt for dough isn't actually the case.


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## Biggleswade Blue (May 19, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Holing a few extra putts per round will smarten things up no end I absolutely agree, all I'm saying is, the strokes gained has proved that the old saying drive for show putt for dough isn't actually the case.
		
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I agree with you that it is more nuanced than that.


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## Foxholer (May 19, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I think you may be kidding yourself on a bit. Yes things may improve but longer straighter drives gives you better and nearer options to the green which in turn allows you to his the ball nearer to the hole,* strokes gained has proved all of this*.
		
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Got some evidence (Strokes/Money gained from better Driving vs Strokes/Money gained Putting)? I certainly recognise more of the current top players in the Strokes gained Putting list than I do on the SG Driving one!

I'm pretty certain that 'gaining strokes' putting is also a lot easier than 'gaining strokes' driving for most ams. Though it depends how 'bad' current Driving and/or Putting are!

Personally, my best rounds correspond to my best putting rounds even when my driving is average, rather than the other way around!


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## User20204 (May 19, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Got some evidence (Strokes/Money gained from better Driving vs Strokes/Money gained Putting)?
		
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Just look at the PGA tour, all the top earners are all the big hitters, there ain't many 280 average hitters on the PGA tour up there. Another stat when Paul Casey won a few weeks back he was 46th in strokes gained in putting, yet 1st from the tee, Luke Donald was 1st in putting that week, yet Casey could've given him a stroke per round in strokes gained and still beat him. 

I'm not for a second disputing that when we hole a few putts our scores see the difference, we all know that but length from the tee statically will win you more than putting will. For an example, I can get up in two at all our par 5s, none of my PP's can, so no matter how well they putt, they are at a disadvantage to me on at least 4 or 5 holes alone.


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## Foxholer (May 19, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Just look at the PGA tour, all the top earners are all the big hitters, there ain't many 280 average hitters on the PGA tour up there. Another stat when Paul Casey won a few weeks back he was 46th in strokes gained in putting, yet 1st from the tee, Luke Donald was 1st in putting that week, yet Casey could've given him a stroke per round in strokes gained and still beat him.

I'm not for a second disputing that when we hole a few putts our scores see the difference, we all know that but length from the tee statically will win you more than putting will. For an example, I can get up in two at all our par 5s, none of my PP's can, so no matter how well they putt, they are at a disadvantage to me on at least 4 or 5 holes alone.
		
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One particular tournament/set of stats isn't really conclusive imo.

But try a different 'take'. How difficult is it going to be for you to gain a further 2 or 3 strokes from your apparently already good Driving as opposed to gaining 2 or 3 strokes Putting?

What's your handicap btw? And what are the handicaps of your PPs? If what you say is true, then their handicaps should be 4 or 5 more than yours. Are they?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 19, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Just look at the PGA tour, 

I'm not for a second disputing that when we hole a few putts our scores see the difference, we all know that but length from the tee statically will win you more than putting will. For an example, I can get up in two at all our par 5s, none of my PP's can, so no matter how well they putt, they are at a disadvantage to me on at least 4 or 5 holes alone.
		
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Point is we're not on the PGA tour and are club members with handicaps and inconsistent swings so can be good one week and shocking the next. How can you really take strokes gained into account when performances can vary week to week? I play with a lot of long hitters who can get to several of our par 5's and the very long par 4's in two and they are all easily single figures. I can't but I can hit these greens in 3 (subject to a decent drive of course) so they are GIR's in the 5's so what would that do to the strokes gained (if I cared). Even on the long par 4's, I'd take net par every time and walk off. If I am doing that by making two putts and the odd one putt courtesy of a putter fitted and I knew worked so much the better. Two putt golf is always going to make it less stressful


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## User20204 (May 19, 2019)

The one tournament stat I provided was just a great example but take BK this weekend, 

SG: Tee-to-Green - 1st 
SG: Approach-the-Green - 1st 
Scrambling - 1st 
Proximity - 2nd 
SG: Off-the-Tee - 3rd 
SG: Putting - 12th 
Driving Accuracy - T18 
Driving Distance - 23rd (300.8) 
SG: Around-the-Green - 33rd 

So as you can see it's not just about putting nor driving for that matter, it is the whole package over the course of the round/rounds/tournament.

As it happens, at no time did I say my driving was good, that was yourself, however I am a fair bit longer than them, as for handicaps, me 4, them 10/12/12 is my length off the tee the difference between us, I'd suggest it is because I'm the 3 best putter out of 4 of us.


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## User20204 (May 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Point is we're not on the PGA tour and are club members with handicaps and inconsistent swings so can be good one week and shocking the next. How can you really take strokes gained into account when performances can vary week to week? I play with a lot of long hitters who can get to several of our par 5's and the very long par 4's in two and they are all easily single figures. I can't but I can hit these greens in 3 (subject to a decent drive of course) so they are GIR's in the 5's so what would that do to the strokes gained (if I cared). Even on the long par 4's, I'd take net par every time and walk off. If I am doing that by making two putts and the odd one putt courtesy of a putter fitted and I knew worked so much the better. Two putt golf is always going to make it less stressful
		
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So you dismiss strokes gained then ?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 19, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			So you dismiss strokes gained then ?
		
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In terms of club golfers who are not shooting consistent scores week in week out I don't see a lot of relevance for them. I'll reiterate and you can keep chucking as many pro strokes gained as you like, we are not on the tour so I don't see what difference they make to how you perform in your weekly roll up or in the monthly medal. Turn up, pay your money, play, enjoy go home and repeat next week. If you want to improve, you'll know if you are a bad putter, can't chip or pitch (my weakness and so an area I spend a lot of time on), the driver is an issue etc. I don't need strokes gained to work that out for me and I'll know by my scores each week if I am playing better


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## User20204 (May 19, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			In terms of club golfers who are not shooting consistent scores week in week out I don't see a lot of relevance for them. I'll reiterate and you can keep chucking as many pro strokes gained as you like, we are not on the tour so I don't see what difference they make to how you perform in your weekly roll up or in the monthly medal. Turn up, pay your money, play, enjoy go home and repeat next week. If you want to improve, you'll know if you are a bad putter, can't chip or pitch (my weakness and so an area I spend a lot of time on), the driver is an issue etc. I don't need strokes gained to work that out for me and I'll know by my scores each week if I am playing better
		
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My mistake, you don't understand strokes gained, fair enough.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 19, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			My mistake, you don't understand strokes gained, fair enough.
		
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Don't patronise me. I understand it fully. I simply disagree that it has any significant relevance to a club golfer, whether they want to improve or not. How many really give a toss, and how many DO understand it and how to use the figures to get better. If you disagree fine, but don't turn it into slag fest and use sarcasm. I've made my views clear and its taking the thread away from the original post. If you really have a beef about strokes gained *for club golfers usage* it may be best to put that in a different thread so it can be debated without hijacking this putter fitting one


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## User20204 (May 19, 2019)

OK petal, sorry your feathers have been ruffled.


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## clubchamp98 (May 20, 2019)

Putter fitting is a good idea.
As you say if time limited itâ€™s the easiest thing to practice.
I went for a fitting and came out with a face balanced mallet.
It has made a big difference to my game .
Not only my putting , if you putt well it takes pressure of your short game .
If short game and putting is good it takes pressure of your iron game.
We all would like to drive the ball like the pros do ,sadly I donâ€™t.
But we all have to put the ball in the hole, so if you eliminate 3 putts and hole a few you will improve.
Then sort your driving when you have more time.


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## Biggleswade Blue (Jun 8, 2019)

Biggleswade Blue said:



			Hi all

I've decided that the gains from a better putting technique and confidence will be the biggest help in improving my scores at the moment.  I will gain more from cutting out three putts, and getting the odd one putt than I will from a slightly straighter or longer drive, though I am convinced (after the GM Woburn Day) that a fitting a new driver to replace my off the shelf G20 would help too, just not as much at the moment.  That's for another day.

I'm going to have a lesson, followed by a fitting (if it's needed - many of the reviews where fittings were booked said he wouldn't sell them a new putter, but adjusted their existing one, which seems good to me, even if it just improves my confidence with my existing one.)  I use a 34" Odyssey White Ice Dart.  The chap I'm going to, Ed Morton is well reviewed over the years on here, offers SAM Putt Lab and Quintic Ball Roll.  What are they?  His brands are Odyssey, Envroll and Seemore.

If the outcome is that I keep my existing putter but have a more repeatable setup and stroke (which feels a bit haphazard at the moment) I'll be delighted too.

Any advice for me to make the most of it all?
		
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I thought I'd tail the thread with a report back.

I had my two hour session with Ed Morton today, at his studio near Leighton Buzzard in Bedfordshire.  We started off on the monitors and spent some time understanding the numbers, then after 20-30 mins, stepped away from the cameras to work on technique with various training aids - mirrors, sticks, lasers, then moved on to working without the aids.  The last 20 minutes or so were then back on the numbers to see what had worked/improved and what hadn't.  Some drills to practice, and a changed grip for my putter, but no new putter - Ed concluded that a new putter wouldn't offer me anything significant, even though the new Evnroll and Odyssey putters looked great and he knew I'd have bought one if he'd told me to!

I was extremely impressed.  His studio is superb, I felt he watched me carefully, fully engaged throughout the whole session, offered clear explanations.   The rational behind the coaching was properly talked through and drills to practice well set out.  The numbers, video etc were all used really well - they showed what was happening and why, but they didn't dictate the session.  They were very much a tool.  Also I was impressed that someone who knew I was in the market for a new club wouldn't sell me one!

I have come away with:

i) A repeatable pre-shot routine and set up
ii)  A clear idea of what I am trying to do with the actual stroke, and an understanding of the one issue that is causing me a problem
iii)  Practice drills that help all this
iv)  Confidence that the equipment I am using is fine [Perhaps I should buy the M6 Driver I was fitted for at Woburn instead...]

I would have no hesitation in recommending him to others.  I will definitely go back in a few months time to see how things have gone.  He made careful notes in the session, and I got video of the key elements emailed straight afterwards.


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## fundy (Jun 8, 2019)

Biggleswade Blue said:



			I thought I'd tail the thread with a report back.

I had my two hour session with Ed Morton today, at his studio near Leighton Buzzard in Bedfordshire.  We started off on the monitors and spent some time understanding the numbers, then after 20-30 mins, stepped away from the cameras to work on technique with various training aids - mirrors, sticks, lasers, then moved on to working without the aids.  The last 20 minutes or so were then back on the numbers to see what had worked/improved and what hadn't.  Some drills to practice, and a changed grip for my putter, but no new putter - Ed concluded that a new putter wouldn't offer me anything significant, even though the new Evnroll and Odyssey putters looked great and he knew I'd have bought one if he'd told me to!

I was extremely impressed.  His studio is superb, I felt he watched me carefully, fully engaged throughout the whole session, offered clear explanations.   The rational behind the coaching was properly talked through and drills to practice well set out.  The numbers, video etc were all used really well - they showed what was happening and why, but they didn't dictate the session.  They were very much a tool.  Also I was impressed that someone who knew I was in the market for a new club wouldn't sell me one!

I have come away with:

i) A repeatable pre-shot routine and set up
ii)  A clear idea of what I am trying to do with the actual stroke, and an understanding of the one issue that is causing me a problem
iii)  Practice drills that help all this
iv)  Confidence that the equipment I am using is fine [Perhaps I should buy the M6 Driver I was fitted for at Woburn instead...]

I would have no hesitation in recommending him to others.  I will definitely go back in a few months time to see how things have gone.  He made careful notes in the session, and I got video of the key elements emailed straight afterwards.
		
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Glad it went well, sounds like Ed being Ed (I posted about Alex being Alex on the Orka thread the other day!)

You should tell Ed that youre thinking of buying a new driver and see if he could beat your numbers


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## Diamond (Aug 11, 2020)

Biggleswade Blue said:



			I thought I'd tail the thread with a report back.

I had my two hour session with Ed Morton today, at his studio near Leighton Buzzard in Bedfordshire.  We started off on the monitors and spent some time understanding the numbers, then after 20-30 mins, stepped away from the cameras to work on technique with various training aids - mirrors, sticks, lasers, then moved on to working without the aids.  The last 20 minutes or so were then back on the numbers to see what had worked/improved and what hadn't.  Some drills to practice, and a changed grip for my putter, but no new putter - Ed concluded that a new putter wouldn't offer me anything significant, even though the new Evnroll and Odyssey putters looked great and he knew I'd have bought one if he'd told me to!

I was extremely impressed.  His studio is superb, I felt he watched me carefully, fully engaged throughout the whole session, offered clear explanations.   The rational behind the coaching was properly talked through and drills to practice well set out.  The numbers, video etc were all used really well - they showed what was happening and why, but they didn't dictate the session.  They were very much a tool.  Also I was impressed that someone who knew I was in the market for a new club wouldn't sell me one!

I have come away with:

i) A repeatable pre-shot routine and set up
ii)  A clear idea of what I am trying to do with the actual stroke, and an understanding of the one issue that is causing me a problem
iii)  Practice drills that help all this
iv)  Confidence that the equipment I am using is fine [Perhaps I should buy the M6 Driver I was fitted for at Woburn instead...]

I would have no hesitation in recommending him to others.  I will definitely go back in a few months time to see how things have gone.  He made careful notes in the session, and I got video of the key elements emailed straight afterwards.
		
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I like the sound of this. I would be interested if there was one similar in the north west.


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## clubchamp98 (Aug 12, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			Got some evidence (Strokes/Money gained from better Driving vs Strokes/Money gained Putting)? I certainly recognise more of the current top players in the Strokes gained Putting list than I do on the SG Driving one!

I'm pretty certain that 'gaining strokes' putting is also a lot easier than 'gaining strokes' driving for most ams. Though it depends how 'bad' current Driving and/or Putting are!

Personally, my best rounds correspond to my best putting rounds even when my driving is average, rather than the other way around!
		
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Totally agree.
Being a good putter takes pressure off your short game, this takes pressure off your irons .
This in turn takes pressure off your long game.
There is nothing worse than hitting it well all day and missing your putts.
My games been the latter for a while and it is really frustrating.
Just imo of course.


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## golfbluecustard (Aug 16, 2020)

Biggleswade Blue said:



			Hi all

I've decided that the gains from a better putting technique and confidence will be the biggest help in improving my scores at the moment.  I will gain more from cutting out three putts, and getting the odd one putt than I will from a slightly straighter or longer drive, though I am convinced (after the GM Woburn Day) that a fitting a new driver to replace my off the shelf G20 would help too, just not as much at the moment.  That's for another day.

I'm going to have a lesson, followed by a fitting (if it's needed - many of the reviews where fittings were booked said he wouldn't sell them a new putter, but adjusted their existing one, which seems good to me, even if it just improves my confidence with my existing one.)  I use a 34" Odyssey White Ice Dart.  The chap I'm going to, Ed Morton is well reviewed over the years on here, offers SAM Putt Lab and Quintic Ball Roll.  What are they?  His brands are Odyssey, Envroll and Seemore. 

If the outcome is that I keep my existing putter but have a more repeatable setup and stroke (which feels a bit haphazard at the moment) I'll be delighted too.

Any advice for me to make the most of it all?
		
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Hi where is Ed based?

 Thanks

 And


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## golfbluecustard (Aug 16, 2020)

golfbluecustard said:



			Hi where is Ed based?

Thanks

And
		
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 Googled some more and see he's in Wingfield

 GBC


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## Biggleswade Blue (Aug 16, 2020)

golfbluecustard said:



			Googled some more and see he's in Wingfield

GBC
		
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He's between Woburn and Dunstable.  I think he stopped his coaching activity earlier this year but can't find anything else out so can't be sure.  I can't access his website.


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## fundy (Aug 16, 2020)

Biggleswade Blue said:



			He's between Woburn and Dunstable.  I think he stopped his coaching activity earlier this year but can't find anything else out so can't be sure.  I can't access his website.
		
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yep Ed has knocked EM golf on the head and moved onto pastures new, he posted something about it a few months ago and sold off all his equipment, putters etc


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## Biggleswade Blue (Aug 16, 2020)

fundy said:



			yep Ed has knocked EM golf on the head and moved onto pastures new, he posted something about it a few months ago and sold off all his equipment, putters etc
		
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I must have missed that.  I probably ticked a box somewhere that said "do not send me any emails".  I wish I had ticked the "unless you are selling an Evnroll putter dirt cheap" box.  Hope he's ok.  The set up he had was fantastic.


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