# Moving From a Flat to Steep(er) Swing



## One Planer (May 1, 2015)

A question for the swing experts.

Anyone that has seen any of my swing videos, knows I have a pretty flat back swing.




What I'm looking to work on over the coming months is getting my swing onto a slightly steeper plane. I'm not talking Bubba or Furyk steep, just a little more than I currently have. Something like the yellow line in the below image.




(Click on the image(s) to enlarge)

My question(s) to the forum experts:

1. Are there any considerations when making such a change?

2. Will any other changes need to be made to accommodate this change?

3. Is this a big change to make?

4. Is it a change worth making?

The reason for my change is to try and eradicate a poor backswing position. I know being flat in itself isn't bad, however when my swing is off I swing extremely flat which, as you can probably imagine, causes me quite a few problem. A mahoosive block being one of them.

Any comments or thoughts you have would, as always, be greatly appreciated :thup:


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## bobmac (May 1, 2015)

It depends if the block is caused by the flat backswing or something else.
What do you think of the clubface position at the top of your backswing?


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## One Planer (May 1, 2015)

bobmac said:



			It depends if the block is caused by the flat backswing or something else.
What do you think of the clubface position at the top of your backswing?
		
Click to expand...

To be honest Bob, I'm not sure.

From the video that still was taken was one of my better swings.  The ball started right of target and drew back, but not past.

Video here:

[video=youtube;VtIldAvrJ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtIldAvrJ1M[/video]

I took my 5 year old to the range last night and was hitting a few balls myself. Poorly I might add.

My pro was walking behind, stopped to watch a few, and advised I was _very_ flat going back and was the cause of everything going right.

Hence this thread.

Always appreciate your input on a thread Bob, so any advice you offer is always greatly accepted :thup:


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## Maninblack4612 (May 1, 2015)

Looks to me like you swing with the shoulders rotating at right angles to the spine, which is 100% correct. The reason the swing looks flat is because your arms swing on the same plane as your shoulders Ã¡ la Matt Kuchar. If you look at Bubba's swing his shoulders rotate in the same way but he lifts his arms. Using the definition coined by Jim Hardy Kuchar is a "One Plane" swinger, whereas Bubba is "Two Plane" In his book "The Plane Truth" he explains that each type of swing requires a totally different set of fundementals. For example, from the top in a one plane swing you must turn the upper body as fast as possible towards the target (perhaps not doing that is causing the blocks). If you did that with a two plane swing you'd come over the top. In the two plane swing you start the downswing with the hips, keeping the arms close to the body. Hardy's approach is unique & has helped me a lot. It explains why a lot of advice you read in magazines appears conflicting. The people dishing out the advice are usually describing how *they *swing, which could be the complete opposite of the way you do it.

If you're a one plane swinger, which you are definitely, and, like me, have short legs & long arms, the swing can look very flat because you don't bend over the ball much & the shoulders swing flatter than someone who is tall with long legs. I'm 6' tall with 30Â½" inside leg & my swing looks very flat. 

The book is worth a read. Explains a lot about the differences between the two swings.


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## bobmac (May 1, 2015)

Here's my concern.
You swing back flat, then you have a little throw at the top which puts you pretty much back on plane.
If you swing back steeper, then do your little throw, that would put you above plane and therefor outside the line coming down. 
What is your grip like?


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## One Planer (May 1, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Here's my concern.
You swing back flat, then you have a little throw at the top which puts you pretty much back on plane.
If you swing back steeper, then do your little throw, that would put you above plane and therefor outside the line coming down.
		
Click to expand...

I see your point Bob.

Would the throw be a consequence of a flat swing? What I mean is if I were to swing on a steeper plane the throw 'may' stop?




bobmac said:



			What is your grip like?
		
Click to expand...

Neutral Bob.

It used to be quite strong but now neutral.

As a guide, I can only see fractionally more than 2 knuckles on my left hand at address.


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## bobmac (May 1, 2015)

Gareth said:



			Would the throw be a consequence of a flat swing? What I mean is if I were to swing on a steeper plane the throw 'may' stop?
		
Click to expand...

The throw may have started because of the flat backswing, but I suspect may be ingrained now.
The only way to find out is to try it and see



Gareth said:



			Neutral Bob.

It used to be quite strong but now neutral.

As a guide, I can only see fractionally more than 2 knuckles on my left hand at address.
		
Click to expand...

And the right hand?


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## One Planer (May 1, 2015)

bobmac said:



			And the right hand?
		
Click to expand...

That used to be an issue and quite strong.

Not under the grip kind of strong, but in a much stronger position than the left.

That was highlighted in the same lesson the above swing was filmed in.

I've been working on that change since.


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## bobmac (May 1, 2015)

I wonder if you've weakened the left hand too far?


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## garyinderry (May 1, 2015)

Gareth, don't go throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 



My question(s) to the forum experts:

 1. Are there any considerations when making such a change?

Yes, the season is just starting and you have posted a few good scores already.  You have a consistent ball flight and a known miss (push)

 2. Will any other changes need to be made to accommodate this change?
You need to rewire your head and body

 3. Is this a big change to make?
Massive. I have mucked around with trying to change my swing more upright in the past.  Doing it constantly would take some serious work and as I said I dont think this is the right time of the year to start that.
 4. Is it a change worth making?
Only you can answer that. If you feel you arent progressing then maybe. I don't think you are at that stage already.


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## One Planer (May 1, 2015)

bobmac said:



			I wonder if you've weakened the left hand too far?
		
Click to expand...

And that is causing the block?

What I would add is the ball is starting much further right than the ball in the video. not 45Â° right, but getting close to.

At the range last night the ball was trying to turn over right to left, but the returning left flight, wasn't enough to bring it back to target so still missed to the right.


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## One Planer (May 1, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Gareth, don't go throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 



My question(s) to the forum experts:

 1. Are there any considerations when making such a change?

Yes, the season is just starting and you have posted a few good scores already.  You have a consistent ball flight and a known miss (push)

 2. Will any other changes need to be made to accommodate this change?
You need to rewire your head and body

 3. Is this a big change to make?
Massive. I have mucked around with trying to change my swing more upright in the past.  Doing it constantly would take some serious work and as I said I dont think this is the right time of the year to start that.
 4. Is it a change worth making?
Only you can answer that. If you feel you arent progressing then maybe. I don't think you are at that stage already.
		
Click to expand...

Very good points Gary. :thup:


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## kevster84 (May 1, 2015)

Very interesting thread. A flat swing was a cause of many of my problems when I started. The post by maninblack4612 is especially good and will take a look at the book.


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## macca64 (May 1, 2015)

Had a lesson the other day,1st one for ages, said my Swing was a bit to flat but leave it to the winter as it could take some time,


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## the_coach (May 1, 2015)

change of any kind is a ways difficult, takes a bunch of hard work to  change those habits that have accumulated over time. usually entails  small steps forwards pretty large steps back in order to work through for a while. would take a bunch of  exaggeration drills, avoidance drills.

looking over at the vid if  not looking to change on the lines you mention. thing I would check  over re the blocks/pushes would be your upper body alignments, even allowing for parallax, hips, torso, shoulders look to be aligned/aimed to the right some. 

so  after you make your compensations for the flat/around arm swing turn to  the top, in coming down. when the hands club get back below the hips  coming into impact the shaft/club head are under plane & swing  direction (part of the swing below hips into & after impact) coming  from inside to littleways rightfield & upwards to finish. 
so if  you think of that in terms of an inclined circle that circle to the ball  is pointing right then angled more upright, hoop littleways twisted,  circle/hoop (swing arc) after strike doesn't really return back inside  to the left.

so quick fix would be vigilant with hip/chest/shoulder alignment to the target line.

re whether you should make the bigger changes mentioned, ultimately depends if you have the time & energy for a re work.


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## Huwey12 (May 1, 2015)

I had a round today and 2/3rd of my drives were a slice/ major fade which I thought I got rid of. Reading your post jogged my brain to think i might have been too steep. Anyone know if this can cause a slice?


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## the_coach (May 2, 2015)

that shot pattern caused by swinging out over plane at transition, so swing path is outside to inside with an some degree of an open face angle. that means the downswing is also steep & will remain steep unless you make a compensation move during the rest of the downswing.

it's the move 'out' at transition that's a cause of the shot shape. 
often times though grip, set-up, alignment &/or how the takeaway/backswing goes up to the top is part of the issue that plays into the 'out & over' downswing path.


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