# grip change: persevere?



## marty4 (Nov 21, 2013)

Guys, 

I recently went for a lesson to address a lot of issues, mainly hitting the ball right 80% of the time. After 10mins on the launch monitor the pro changed my grip to over lap grip. Spent the rest of the lesson with this grip and no change, but wasn't expecting results right away.

I've since been to the range 3 times since, hitting around 250 balls and  now 100% of them start right and go further right, not one was on target. Is it just a case it will get worse before it gets better and pesevering and then it will click? 

Just wondering if anyone has been here?

Cheers guys.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2013)

Spoke to one pro who reckons a grip change could take about 10000 balls before it became natural


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## Rooter (Nov 21, 2013)

i would stick to what your pro said, keep working on it until your next lesson. even small changes take a long time to either work or feel natural/comfortable


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## Cheifi0 (Nov 21, 2013)

I changed my grip last winter, from strong to neutral and it still isn't totally natural now.  I feel comfortable taking my shot but there is sometimes a tendency for my grip to slip towards a stronger position.  I have started to be more vigilant in checking my grip so that it doesn't revert back to old ways.  Just keep at it.  The first couple of months can be awful but eventually muscle memory will take over.


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## mefromhere (Nov 21, 2013)

If the pro has got your grip right then it's the swing that needs changing to stop it going right. I don't think I will have hit 10,000 full shots in my life to get a grip feeling natural so surely that figure can't be right as it doesn't feel particularly alien whatever I do?


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## Foxholer (Nov 21, 2013)

What was your previous grip? Baseball? Interlock? Cack-Handed?
Did the Pro state why you should change to overlap? Did you ask him why?


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## marty4 (Nov 21, 2013)

Yes, he said he didn't think i was releasing the club so changed from interlock to overlap as he said its easier to release the club with overlap grip. The grip doesn't feel unatural but was hoping to see some results but no doubt i'll need more than a grip change..

Cheers.


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## Foxholer (Nov 21, 2013)

I'd suggest you persevere for a couple more range sessions and if the problem is still there go back to the Pro. This sort of chng is a very significant one but shouldn't be one that takes an enormous amount of effort to pply (if it does, then it's un-natural imo). I could never get on with the Interlock but it only took a couple of sessions to get used to the Overlap/Vardon (from Baseball/Ten Finger).

It's quite possible that a simple tweak will achieve the desired result, so if the Pro happens to be nearby, it could be worthwhile just checking. It could be that you right hand/forearm is sneaking underneath your left - which will result in pushes - and a slight change in thought might help. When that happens with me, I think of a Tennis down-the-line topspin but that can have the effect of rolling the wrists with some, so needs care in application.

Good Luck!


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## G_Mulligan (Nov 21, 2013)

marty4 said:



			Yes, he said he didn't think i was releasing the club so changed from interlock to overlap as he said its easier to release the club with overlap grip. The grip doesn't feel unatural but was hoping to see some results but no doubt i'll need more than a grip change..

Cheers.
		
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yes quite possibly he wants to change the grip first and then change the swing once that feels more natural. He probably should have explained that to you though to make sure you stuck with it.


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## louise_a (Nov 21, 2013)

I had a grip change last winter, nothing major, I only had 2 fingers of my right hand on the shaft and he changed it to 3 fingers, It took quite a while to get used to but now I don't think about.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 22, 2013)

I'm going through something similar at the moment.

Over the last year, my grip has been getting increasingly strong to compensate for my in-to-out swing path, however that's become a vicious circle, i.e. the stronger my grip, the further from the inside I need to come in order to square the club face.

So, I'm moving to a more neutral grip, although still slightly stronger than neutral. I've been practicing picking up a club with the new grip as many times as I can each day. Went to the range to hit balls with the new grip for the first time on Monday and to start with I couldn't hit a thing! However, after about 30 balls, it started to get better. I was certainly making a better connection but hitting a push fade, which logically makes sense - my swing path is still in to out, but now with a more neutral grip the club face is slightly open to the target line. Mixed in with these shots were a good few shanks, however, I'm not put off. With a fundamentally sound grip I can make changes to my swing to correct my problems rather than having to have all my flaws in a finely balanced state of equilibrium!

It was so nice to be able to get the ball up in the air so effortlessly - now to persist with the grip and start to work on changing my swing path to square things up at impact. Fun and games! Although it feels like a bit of a step back in some respects, and I'm sure I'm going to have some absolutely stinking rounds over the next couple of months, I'm absolutely certain the end result is going to be worth it.

I'm also revisiting all my other fundamentals, posture and alignment in particular. These things are so easy to get right, there's not really any excuse for not doing it given I am committed to improving. 

Anyway, on to my question. I'm playing a corporate golf day next Friday, if I spend a few hours at the range this weekend and also a couple of sessions midweek next week, will I be able to avoid total humiliation next Friday??!


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## sawtooth (Nov 22, 2013)

"With a fundamentally sound grip I can make changes to my swing "

Well said.

I dont see the point in making swing changes when the grip is not right. Start with the grip make sure its perfect and kick on from there. Otherwise its a bit like building a house on sand. Interlocking or overlapping it doesnt matter - whatever is most comfortable and make it neutral.


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## One Planer (Nov 22, 2013)

I had my first lesson in April this year.

The first thing my pro looked at was my grip.

He was happy with me using an interlocking grip, just asked me to tweak my right hand slightly and that was it.

Trust what your pro says and work at it. It will take a little time but will eventualy feel more natural.

Or

Buy a Leadbetter grip trainer and fit it to a spare club


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## marty4 (Nov 22, 2013)

Went to the range today grip feels better but still going way right. I use burner 2.0 irons but always felt these irons felt a bit heavy and hard to control so thought i'd take along my old wilson ultra 45 irons because i always felt they were lighter and easy to control so thought i'd compare. Burners seem half an inch longer and the grip is thicker shaft is also more upright than the wilson. Anyway  i hit a few shots with each and noticed i hit the wilsons with a lot less spin so ball going to the right is hugely reduced maybe due to the wider sole on the wilsons, and felt it easier to release the wilsons maybe due to the thinner grip..

This maybe all in my head but maybe i'm more suited to a more game improvement club with a wider sole. The burners are great clubs but not sure if i have picked up a set of clubs that have been adjusted, or i really need a more forgiving club, anyway i think i'll bring my wilsons along to my next lesson and compare on a monitor to see if i'm talking a lot of s**t.

Cheers.


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## Region3 (Nov 22, 2013)

It may or may not have anything to do with it, but it can be harder to release the club properly if the grip is too big for your hands.


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## Oddsocks (Nov 23, 2013)

sawtooth said:



			"With a fundamentally sound grip I can make changes to my swing "
		
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So so true, so many swing faults can be traced back to a grip issue, 
M


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## CMAC (Nov 23, 2013)

"Good golf starts with a good grip" Nick Faldo




The pro who said 10,000 balls to make a grip change is just a ridiculous thing to say to an AM, that would be years to most 2-3 games a week players


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2013)

CMAC said:



			"Good golf starts with a good grip" Nick Faldo




The pro who said 10,000 balls to make a grip change is just a ridiculous thing to say to an AM, that would be years to most 2-3 games a week players

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Why is it ridiculous ? He said that's how long it could possibly take to make it feel natural not change the grip 

You can change the grip over a couple days but it could take 6 months plus to make it feel natural


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## CMAC (Nov 23, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Why is it ridiculous *? He said that's how long it could possibly take to make it feel natural not change the grip 

You can change the grip over a couple days but it could take 6 months plus to make it feel natural
		
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How long would it take you to hit 10,000 balls at the rate you currently practice? then tell me it's not ridiculous


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2013)

CMAC said:



			How long would it take you to hit 10,000 balls at the rate you currently practice? then tell me it's not ridiculous

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Again some people might take a year to make things natural 

The body learns in different ways 

It would take me about. 3-4 months to hit that many balls - maybe half to swing the club that much.

Pros prob do that in about 2 months 

So making something feel natural could take that long so yes I don't think it is ridiculous 

But he is only a pro giving his opinion - what does he know


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## CMAC (Nov 23, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again some people might take a year to make things natural 

The body learns in different ways 

It would take me about. 3-4 months to hit that many balls - maybe half to swing the club that much.

Pros prob do that in about 2 months 

So making something feel natural could take that long so yes I don't think it is ridiculous 

*But he is only a pro giving his opinion - what does he know*

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not all pro's are the same.........and I'm only a golfer giving my opinion based on grip changes taking max 2 weeks to 'bed' in, not 10,000 balls...........but as you elude to we all take different times and learn differently.

Apologies OP for going off at tangents


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## G_Mulligan (Nov 23, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it ridiculous ? He said that's how long it could possibly take to make it feel natural not change the grip 

You can change the grip over a couple days but it could take 6 months plus to make it feel natural
		
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I think this magical number of 10,000 has stemmed from psychological papers in the early nineties by Ericsson and Gladwell who claimed it took 10,000 hours of practice to become expert at something. So from violinists, tennis players, golfers, or chess grand masters, it took around 10 years to reach the pinnacle of their field.

I am not saying the 10,000 shots in golf rule is wrong just that I can't find any papers in my journal archive to support it. Lets say it is true though. It is not just 10,000 golf balls hit at the range. An important aspect of the 10,000 hour theory is that it must be quality practice with a focus on feedback. So the golfer must be disciplined and play each shot with focus and concentration, line up each shot, go through the pre-shot routine, watch the ball from start to finish and analyse the result and why the swing created the outcome. This is not an easy task for an amateur. 

It would be reasonably easy to hit 10,000 in one year (200 balls per week = 50 weeks) but to hit them with the necessary quality of practice would take maybe twice as long. That is if an amateur golfer can spend 2-3 hour per week every week practicing for around 18 months just on their long game and specifically the grip. What about time for putting, pitching, and chipping practice and actually playing golf? 

I have to agree it is unrealistic to expect someone to put in this many hours of dedicated practice just to make a new grip feel natural. It is also a scary number 10,000 sounds like a lot of time and effort which does not help with continued motivation to keep practicing. As the 10,000 hour rule is to attain an expert level the studies also showed that 4000 hours of practice would reach a level of competence required to teach the skill to others. Simply making one aspect of an overall skill (the grip) feel natural could logically take far less time. If he said it would take 150 balls per week for 10 weeks (1500 balls) I think this would be a far more realistic target to achieve.


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## Foxholer (Nov 23, 2013)

CMAC said:



			The pro who said 10,000 balls to make a grip change is just a ridiculous thing to say to an AM, that would be years to most 2-3 games a week players

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I don't believe any Pro actually stated that's how long it took. Urban Myth imo. A corruption of 'time to become as good as you are going to be' is probably how it came about. 

If it takes 'too long' for a different grip to bed in, then it's almost certainly a bad change imo. The key, of course, is defining what 'too long' means - and I believe it's something that differs for each individual/circumstances.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2013)

Or the pro understands that the human body is different in everyone and gave his opinion regardless of what is in your "journals"

But thanks for the "psych" angle - not something I really take an interest in because I mainly think its mumbo jumbo


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2013)

Foxholer said:



			I don't believe any Pro actually stated that's how long it took. Urban Myth imo. A corruption of 'time to become as good as you are going to be' is probably how it came about. 

If it takes 'too long' for a different grip to bed in, then it's almost certainly a bad change imo. The key, of course, is defining what 'too long' means - and I believe it's something that differs for each individual/circumstances.
		
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Well the pro actually stated it "could" take up to 10,000 hits or swings to make it feel "natural"

There is no definite there - for some it could be natural after 1 hit or 20 swings or 2000 etc etc - I expect there is no set rule

It will be done to each individual


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## G_Mulligan (Nov 23, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or the pro understands that the human body is different in everyone and gave his opinion regardless of what is in your "journals"

But thanks for the "psych" angle - not something I really take an interest in because I mainly think its mumbo jumbo 

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No but maybe the OP does and perhaps you telling him it could take up 10,000 shots until it feels natural is going to make him reverse his decision to change his grip. I am giving my opinion based on the scientific research I have available from peer reviewed "Journal" articles. I felt a more realistic target may help not hinder the OP to dedicate to the changes his pro has advised. 

Maybe the pro you spoke to has studied a number of golfers who have attempted a grip change, controlled for age, sex, handicap etc. analysed the data and checked for outliers, statistical anaomolies, distribution of the curve, and then found that it can take up to 10,000 shots for certain players until in felt natural.

Then again maybe he plucked the number out of the air because it is a big round number that sounds good.


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## sawtooth (Nov 23, 2013)

In my opinion it could easily take someone 2 years (or more)  to get used to a new grip.

Obviously there is no time that you can stamp on it because factors will vary tremendously. But if you take someone who has played with a bad grip for years and suddenly they are shown how to grip the club properly it will take a while to get used to it. Its not just a grip change but it will affect the arm setup, club position at the top and probably a lot more. Inevitably their game will get worse for before it gets better and for that reason some will abandon the grip change and go back to what they know especially when playing competitively.

When I moved from a baseball grip to a neutral vardon overlap grip it felt so weird. I resisted change, for years I compromised by having a strong right hand grip because it felt like I was holding the club more securely that way. That was backward thinking on my part and it halted my progress, I should have bit the bullet and persevered with the correct neutral grip.

I feel now that I am reaping the rewards of that grip change, my handicap has dropped 4 shots in as many years. In all honesty it has taken me a lot longer than 2 years to transition because I didn't go straight from one to the other.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 26, 2013)

Having just worked out that I've been holding the club wrong in my left hand (across the palm, not at the bottom of the fingers) this thread scares me! I haven't even hit a ball with the new grip yet, this could be interesting.


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## CMAC (Nov 27, 2013)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Having just worked out that I've been holding the club wrong in my left hand (across the palm, not at the bottom of the fingers) *this thread scares me!* I haven't even hit a ball with the new grip yet, this could be interesting.
		
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dont let it, 10,000 balls or 2 years to get used to a new grip is total b*llox  no offense meant to anyone, just my opinion


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 27, 2013)

CMAC said:



			dont let it, 10,000 balls or 2 years to get used to a new grip is total b*llox  no offense meant to anyone, just my opinion
		
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 Off to the range tonight, so only one way to find out!


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## Odvan (Nov 27, 2013)

I'm not an expert. Probably (definitely!) the exact opposite. However...

I changed grip purely by reading up on the usual 'cure a slice' articles a few months ago. I went to the range twice a week and did 100 balls each time. At the same time, any rounds i played i used the new grip and didn't worry about my scores. Another thing i did purely for habitual reasons was get the PW out in the front room (after she'd gone to bed!) and do a few half swings with the new grip, sit back down for 10 mins and then repeat for an hour. Gave me the natural instinct to pick the club up and hold it automatically with the new grip as opposed to the old one and also educated my fingers to 'not ache'.

For my irons, I noticed no difference at all - for the driver I did, particularly once I'd got out of the habit of allowing the grip to pivot between the pads of my right hand at the top of my swing (ie, hold the bloomin' thing stronger).

Aside from having a sore little finger for a day after each session and it being weird and uncomfortable at first, it 'worked' for me in two-three weeks. Do I still slice? Occasionally yes of course but I have far less propensity to do so now. If i'd have been told by a pro it'd take 10000 balls who I was potentially giving money too to teach me, I'd have smelt a rat straight away regardless as to whether this was actually true or not.


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