# shaft lean at address  - help or hindrance



## garyinderry (Dec 5, 2017)

thoughts?

i have battled hitting it fat for the last 2 years.  in this game of opposites called golf i observed my playing partners address the ball from a face on view and they looked to have minimal and at times the shaft leaning away from the target at address. 

neither hit it fat and at times took great ball then turf divots. 

i tried to have the shaft what felt like vertical and got a nice contact for the remainging holes.  handle leading the club head.  think dufner take away.

could that excessive shaft lean at address been causing early release and actually the opposite wirst conditions i wanted into the hit. 

constantly been feeling im hitting it out of the underside of the club which is no doubt a flip of the wrists. 

crazy game of opposites.  lol


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## bobmac (Dec 5, 2017)

Is your right heel off the ground at impact?


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## garyinderry (Dec 5, 2017)

i dont think it is.  closer to no anyway.


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## bobmac (Dec 5, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			i dont think it is.  closer to no anyway.
		
Click to expand...

If you have too much shaft lean, subconsciously, you may feel like you need to add loft and are are getting a bit stuck on your back foot, even leaning back a touch.


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## hovis (Dec 5, 2017)

i suffered bad with early release for years.  i doubt shaft lean at set up is a big factor.   early release is usually caused by

club face too open on the downswing so flip to square 

upper body moves towards the target/and or too steep on the downswing so you have to flip to stop you taking a 3ft divot

not using the correct pivot in your downswing so the hand s slow down too soon and the club overtakes


the less common one is the problem i had where i just had a bad concept of how the ball interacts with the fact.  i was unknowingly trying to sweep the ball off the turf.   i had to feel like i was trying to use the club face as a hammer and attempt to hit the ball straight into the ground.   in reality it looked nothing like it


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## garyinderry (Dec 5, 2017)

bobmac said:



			If you have too much shaft lean, subconsciously, you may feel like you need to add loft and are are getting a bit stuck on your back foot, even leaning back a touch.
		
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that sounds like it alright.  certainly hit it better without the shaft lean at address.  leaning back is certainly a feature of my swing. 

will be trying a flared lead foot this week to stop the lower half driving towards the target so much.  was doing some slow motion swings last night and this felt much better. 

ta bob. 


hovis - im the opposite. lower half goes towards the target and top half moves back quite a bit.


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## bobmac (Dec 5, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			that sounds like it alright.  certainly hit it better without the shaft lean at address.*  leaning back is certainly a feature of my swing. *

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Try this drill
Hit the front ball and not the back one.

[video=youtube;bJ2oBmW37eY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ2oBmW37eY&amp;index=11&amp;list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3  OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]


Maybe start with the balls a bit further apart to begin with or use a rolled up towel as the back ball. Elf and wotsit


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## garyinderry (Dec 5, 2017)

i tried something similar last week with tape stuck to the range floor. 

kept wacking it and sending it out into the grass. 

i think i might be able to do your drill now though.

will try it out.


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## SteveJay (Dec 5, 2017)

Hindrance for me. 

Recently bought a DST 8 iron and had a demo session with the inventor at our club. Found it easier to lean the shaft forward at address to replicate the impact position necessary for that curved club. Did the same, to a lesser extent when i reverted to my normal irons.

Had a lesson since and my pro noticed that the shaft lean was actually opening my stance, i.e. pulling my right shoulder forward. It is not easy to impart shaft lean without moving your shoulders, so I am now trying to have just a small amount of forward lean, due to my hands, keeping shoulders square.

The DST has helped me with a downward ball/turf impact though - never used to take much of a divot before!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2017)

SteveJay said:



			Hindrance for me. 

Recently bought a DST 8 iron and had a demo session with the inventor at our club. Found it easier to lean the shaft forward at address to replicate the impact position necessary for that curved club. Did the same, to a lesser extent when i reverted to my normal irons.

Had a lesson since and my pro noticed that the shaft lean was actually opening my stance, i.e. pulling my right shoulder forward. It is not easy to impart shaft lean without moving your shoulders, so I am now trying to have just a small amount of forward lean, due to my hands, keeping shoulders square.

The DST has helped me with a downward ball/turf impact though - never used to take much of a divot before!
		
Click to expand...

The DST is a great training aid and really replicates the correct impact position. Has helped my strike a lot and is something I'll be going back to this winter


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## garyinderry (Dec 5, 2017)

bobmac said:



			Try this drill
Hit the front ball and not the back one.

[video=youtube;bJ2oBmW37eY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ2oBmW37eY&index=11&list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3  OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]





Maybe start with the balls a bit further apart to begin with or use a rolled up towel as the back ball. Elf and wotsit
		
Click to expand...

I was at the range this evening.  Tried this drill.  It certainly is very good.  I used an 8 iron first.  Hit 2 very good irons that felt like great contact with maybe a little lower flight.  Then the third I caught the back ball and spooked myself. 

I then used a screwed up business card which was a lot safer. 

I will be using this drill again in future. 


With next to no shaft lean and this drill I am heading in the right direction.  The amount of fats were well down.   hallelujah lol


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## garyinderry (Dec 5, 2017)

[video=youtube;lXeG6D-OKK8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXeG6D-OKK8[/video]

This kinda feeling with the takeaway certainly helping to reduce the poor fat contact.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			I was at the range this evening.  Tried this drill.  It certainly is very good.  I used an 8 iron first.  Hit 2 very good irons that felt like great contact with maybe a little lower flight.  Then the third I caught the back ball and spooked myself. 

I then used a screwed up business card which was a lot safer. 

I will be using this drill again in future. 


With next to no shaft lean and this drill I am heading in the right direction.  The amount of fats were well down.   hallelujah lol
		
Click to expand...

Keep grinding away. Sounds like progress being made


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## the_coach (Dec 6, 2017)

the avoidance drills are pretty useful to get reasonable -AoA with the irons so hands/handle a tad before the clubhead & then giving optimum strike & "compression"

my take to that tend to have folks try this with a folded bag towel apron 4" behind the ball - having a golf ball a tad further back can for a lot of folks be a tad of a scary distraction & plays with confidence - some folks are ok with that but many are not especially in the confines of a driving range that have some hard surfaces around so ricochets are possible

my take - don't really advise any fairly big forwards leaning shaft at set-up as that has a tendency to bring active wrist break real early along with a lack of width goin to the top
would more look to a set up with the irons that the lead hand is more overtop of level with the front half of the ball so the shaft is just a tad off vertical 

it's a good lower body upper body arms sequence & weight pressure transfer that will deliver good impact conditions 

having a tad too strong a grip can tend to play into issues with good impact conditions as the strong grip will take loft off of the face as well as look 'left' so the natural reaction for most index players having issues tends to mean the shaft gets presented ways too vertical in order to both keep some club face loft & also stop the face angle closing down so the strike is then not from the optimum part of the club face from optimum "compression"

if the grip hold is overstrong the only ways around this is the body "opening' motion folks will see in players like 'dj' & others (but in actuality dh's grip hold is not 'mega' strong in the general scheme of things

but really only 2 ways around a heavily strong grip - one being changing the ways the body moves with weight pressure transfer - so not hanging back on the trail side - but getting to the lead side with the hips & upper body then opening so can still present some 'loft' & 'squareness' of face angle to target so the hands/handle & shaft don't raise up too vertical into impact

the other ways is a grip hold change

both these 2 options offer the chance to get those better impact conditions with the hands/handle a tad in-front of the clubhead 
but if the grip hold is favoring the super strong although more work the better option is a grip change even if that change puts the grip hold back to being just a tad strong more in the 'dj' ballpark


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## garyinderry (Dec 9, 2017)

Video trying out the 'fat avoidance drill'.  I have moved away from using a back ball bob for the obvious health and safety reasons. May well take a towel today as that head cover was a little too big.  Did the Job though.  Hit two near the end which did catch the cover but the angle of attack must have been good because they came off well and felt solid. 

Got 100 balls yesterday and hit maybe 60 with 8 and 6 iron.  Happy to say only a handful were obvious to me that I was catching the mat before the ball.  Last week that number would have been the complete reverse. 

[video=youtube;OcnjkGOljCU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcnjkGOljCU[/video]


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## garyinderry (Dec 9, 2017)

Two shots hitting target. Cold wind off the left.  I can make this work on the course. Finally getting a handle on the low point.  

Thanks for the help lads. 

[video=youtube;uTbfb-Q_6iA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTbfb-Q_6iA[/video]


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## bobmac (Dec 9, 2017)

Dont be scared to 'take the divot' and thump the mat after contact
Listen for the thump


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## garyinderry (Dec 9, 2017)

bobmac said:



			Dont be scared to 'take the divot' and thump the mat after contact
Listen for the thump
		
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Will do.  Should be back there today to continue the work.  Course is obviously still closed with the snow and freezing temps. 

Probably been avoiding too much of a downward blow with me recent troubles of landing behind the ball.


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## garyinderry (Dec 14, 2017)

Nice hitting station set up here.   has your towel trick and balls set up to work on path and strike. 

I may make this from foam balls instead.   I'd say I could take a pile of them balls out like skittles in the bowling alley. Lo,


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## garyinderry (Dec 14, 2017)

[video=youtube;ga7hESvMzRs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga7hESvMzRs[/video]


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## garyinderry (Jan 22, 2018)

Still working on my irons.  Seeing a real difference on the course since taking out that exaggerated shaft lean at address.   

Brought a tee towel for that avoidance drill.  Love it.


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## garyinderry (Jan 22, 2018)

[video=youtube;iy7V_zL889k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy7V_zL889k[/video]


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## garyinderry (Jan 22, 2018)

[video=youtube;KCEJH5kvO08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCEJH5kvO08[/video]


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## garyinderry (Jan 22, 2018)

[video=youtube;K4VYiGJ4NEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4VYiGJ4NEo[/video]



Tired to keep the club head outside my hands going back.  You can see my head following the club head to see if I was doing this.  Something I have always struggled with.    wind left shoulder behind the ball, then hands over right shoulder going back. 

Was flushing them by the end of the session.


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