# Players diving



## anotherdouble (Dec 13, 2014)

This is now out of hand. 2 players booked for my beloved Chelsea today and the worst dive was Cahill who was already on a yellow, was not booked.

This cheating must be stamped out. 3 match immediate bans. And if like my team today, two people are caught doing it the points should be docked or the players bans increased. 

The onus is then on the managers to stamp it out in their clubs


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2014)

Manager's won't do a thing. Its a results business and lose too many and they're out of a job, not the players. The authorities haven't got the balls to do anything and we've all seen how pace of play and poor positioning means referees can easily make mistakes (albeit unintentionally). They get no help from assistants or fourth officials.


----------



## Slime (Dec 13, 2014)

As I've said before, it just makes refs look inept ................. and players pathetic.
These idiots must be really punished severely. Apparently the Cahill dive was ridiculously obvious ........................ and he was already on a yellow.
Unfortunately it'll soon be forgotten. 
The authorities must act now!



*Slime*.


----------



## Tongo (Dec 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Manager's won't do a thing. Its a results business and lose too many and they're out of a job, not the players. The authorities haven't got the balls to do anything and we've all seen how pace of play and poor positioning means referees can easily make mistakes (albeit unintentionally). They get no help from assistants or fourth officials.
		
Click to expand...




Slime said:



			As I've said before, it just makes refs look inept ................. and players pathetic.
These idiots must be really punished severely. Apparently the Cahill dive was ridiculously obvious ........................ and he was already on a yellow.
Unfortunately it'll soon be forgotten. 
The authorities must act now!



*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...


The authorities have hamstrung themselves with the ridiculous rule that they can't overturn a decision if made / seen by the referee. Tis a farce but that shows how rubbish the FA are.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

UEFA tried to ban Eduardo for three games for diving - despite there being no touch and it looking a clear dive - it was quashed by an appeal when UEFA were challenged to prove intent !


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2014)

Tongo said:



			The authorities have hamstrung themselves with the ridiculous rule that they can't overturn a decision if made / seen by the referee. Tis a farce but that shows how rubbish the FA are.
		
Click to expand...

Have to agree. Not sure what the answer is and it's a plague in the current game. Certain the FA won't make the first move and nor will managers so how does it get stopped


----------



## anotherdouble (Dec 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			UEFA tried to ban Eduardo for three games for diving - despite there being no touch and it looking a clear dive - it was quashed by an appeal when UEFA were challenged to prove intent !
		
Click to expand...

Makes no sense. The proof surely is the player falling over without being touched


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2014)

anotherdouble said:



			Makes no sense. The proof surely is the player falling over without being touched
		
Click to expand...

Not really. Why wait to get your leg broken by a bad tackle when you can see it coming a mile away?


----------



## SaintHacker (Dec 13, 2014)

Totally agree. Red card aat the time or if not punished by the ref a retrospective 3 game ban. And no appeals!


----------



## Tongo (Dec 13, 2014)

Surely Cahill hasnt dived? I've always been informed that English players are upstanding and moral and would never do such a thing and its only foreign players that indulge in such despicable tactics.


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 13, 2014)

Tongo said:



			Surely Cahill hasnt dived? I've always been informed that English players are upstanding and moral and would never do such a thing and its only foreign players that indulge in such despicable tactics. 

Click to expand...

Did you never watch Michael Owen? 

Obviously he learned the dark arts from dodgy foreigners though.


----------



## Tongo (Dec 13, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Did you never watch Michael Owen? 

Obviously he learned the dark arts from dodgy foreigners though.
		
Click to expand...

Always found him upstanding. (Have conveniently forgot the Argentina game at the 2002 World Cup!)


----------



## Biggleswade Blue (Dec 13, 2014)

I've fallen out with football over the last few years.  Players diving is one of the reasons.

Referee's are allowed, in the laws, to book and send off for it.  They should also do so for the pushing and pulling at corners, free kicks and so on.

There would be loads of sendings off.  There'd be loads of mistakes.  The media would be outraged.  But if the referees saw it through, in a few months the game would be better for it, and players would be so terrified of falling down, even after tough tackles, that they'd stay on their feet, and keep playing.

It won't happen though.


----------



## c1973 (Dec 13, 2014)

The best way to eradicate diving would be to allow the opposing teams hard man to kick the offending player in the nuts without fear of retribution. 

That would sort it out quicker than yellow/red cards would.


----------



## srixon 1 (Dec 13, 2014)

Football has become a joke. Diving, shirt pulling and the other one that goes unpunished is obstruction. When a player is shielding a ball that is 5 yards away it must be obstruction. Then the pundit comes on and says "it's is all part of the game now". They must be looking at a different rule book to everybody else.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

anotherdouble said:



			Makes no sense. The proof surely is the player falling over without being touched
		
Click to expand...

So if a player slips or trips or just out of the way and falls over an expected tackle etc etc.


----------



## Tongo (Dec 13, 2014)

srixon 1 said:



			Football has become a joke. Diving, shirt pulling and the other one that goes unpunished is obstruction. When a player is shielding a ball that is 5 yards away it must be obstruction. Then the pundit comes on and says *"it's is all part of the game now"*. They must be looking at a different rule book to everybody else.
		
Click to expand...

Football seems to be the leader in accepting that players push and push and push at the edge of the rules to the point where cheating is the norm. 

All sports at the highest levels experience players trying to get away with things but Football seemingly accepts it more.


----------



## shewy (Dec 13, 2014)

I've said it before the only way to stop it is to dock points, fines don't work as they have all too much money,bans don't work because the squads are big enough to absorb it.
How they do this I don't know,but it should include retrospective punishment from video


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

shewy said:



			I've said it before the only way to stop it is to dock points, fines don't work as they have all too much money,bans don't work because the squads are big enough to absorb it.
How they do this I don't know,but it should include retrospective punishment from video
		
Click to expand...

If you start docking points for a dive do you then dock points for every offence in the sport ?


----------



## Tongo (Dec 13, 2014)

shewy said:



			I've said it before the only way to stop it is to dock points, fines don't work as they have all too much money,bans don't work because the squads are big enough to absorb it.
How they do this I don't know,*but it should include retrospective punishment from video*

Click to expand...

Rugby has had a citing panel for years now which makes decisions after games but, like a number of potential advancements / improvements, Football is very much a sporting Luddite.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 13, 2014)

anotherdouble said:



			This is now out of hand. 2 players booked for my beloved Chelsea today and the worst dive was Cahill who was already on a yellow, was not booked.

This cheating must be stamped out. 3 match immediate bans. And if like my team today, two people are caught doing it the points should be docked or the players bans increased. 

The onus is then on the managers to stamp it out in their clubs
		
Click to expand...

Genuine question, were you actually there or relying on press reports for your information?

The booking for Willian I totally agree with.  Clear as anything & a few others as well as me called it from nearly 100 yards away; no excuses for it & completely unacceptable.  As for the other two, I'm looking forward to MoTD to see what they make of it.  

From where I was seated, both Cahill & Costa seemed to be taking avoiding action from the swinging legs of a team that was obviously determined to kick anything that moved with the exception of the ball.  My initial reaction was that Cahill was caught and a penalty should have been given and that Costa wasn't looking for a free kick, just looking to avoid a broken leg.  We'll see.

As for your suggested penalties, sorry but that is ridiculous.  As odious as diving is, to equate the penalty with dangerous play is a non-starter.  As for docking points, when we can trust referees to get it right 100% of the time, we can consider it; until then, forget it.


----------



## shewy (Dec 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you start docking points for a dive do you then dock points for every offence in the sport ?
		
Click to expand...

Don't be silly,a foul is a foul, what I'm talking about it down right cheating, falsifying a foul or feigning injury to gain an advantage.
great point about rugby,something footy could certainly learn from


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2014)

I don't think the rules of football have changed much in the last 20 years.

However, since Blatter's reign the "interpretations" of fouls has changed, because he doesn't want tackles as part of the game. We need to get back to, unless you are properly fouled, you don't get it. Players waiting for a slight contact and refs giving them fouls only encourage it.

We don't want to see centre halves slide though players and take the lot as they did for years, but it has gone way to far to protecting players and football is worse off for it.


----------



## anotherdouble (Dec 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if a player slips or trips or just out of the way and falls over an expected tackle etc etc.
		
Click to expand...

Why be so pedantic. We all no what constitutes a dive. Eduardo dived. To me the appeal should never have been allowed. Cahill et al today were dives. A player can slip, be pushed and jump out of the way that's not what I am on about and you know it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

shewy said:



			Don't be silly,a foul is a foul, what I'm talking about it down right cheating, falsifying a foul or feigning injury to gain an advantage.
great point about rugby,something footy could certainly learn from
		
Click to expand...

But then what about deliberate trips or deliberate handballs and deliberate fouls ?

Yes diving needs to be punished but docking points ?

And the citing panel does works well in rugby when the ref cites them and then when its watched back later.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

anotherdouble said:



			Why be so pedantic. We all no what constitutes a dive. Eduardo dived. To me the appeal should never have been allowed. Cahill et al today were dives. A player can slip, be pushed and jump out of the way that's not what I am on about and you know it
		
Click to expand...

it doesnt matter what should never be allowed - it was allowed and the players punishment was removed because they couldnt prove intent - its is a minefield.


----------



## anotherdouble (Dec 13, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Genuine question, were you actually there or relying on press reports for your information?

The booking for Willian I totally agree with.  Clear as anything & a few others as well as me called it from nearly 100 yards away; no excuses for it & completely unacceptable.  As for the other two, I'm looking forward to MoTD to see what they make of it.  

From where I was seated, both Cahill & Costa seemed to be taking avoiding action from the swinging legs of a team that was obviously determined to kick anything that moved with the exception of the ball.  My initial reaction was that Cahill was caught and a penalty should have been given and that Costa wasn't looking for a free kick, just looking to avoid a broken leg.  We'll see.

As for your suggested penalties, sorry but that is ridiculous.  As odious as diving is, to equate the penalty with dangerous play is a non-starter.  As for docking points, when we can trust referees to get it right 100% of the time, we can consider it; until then, forget it.
		
Click to expand...

Saw it on live tv and replays


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2014)

The thing is it won't change. Blatter and his insistence on tacking tackling out of the game means it has become easier for players to play for a foul get it and referees punish the fouler accordingly


----------



## shewy (Dec 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But then what about deliberate trips or deliberate handballs and deliberate fouls ?

Yes diving needs to be punished but docking points ?

And the citing panel does works well in rugby when the ref cites them and then when its watched back later.
		
Click to expand...

Deliberate handballs,trips and fouls are already dealt with, usually a booking or straight red.
I'm just putting it out there that the only was to stop it is to dock points,say 10 blatant dives and 3 point deduction, it would stop tomorrow.  Blatter has not got the balls though nor Platini


----------



## Tongo (Dec 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The thing is it won't change. Blatter and his insistence on tacking tackling out of the game means it has become easier for players to play for a foul get it and referees punish the fouler accordingly
		
Click to expand...




shewy said:



			Deliberate handballs,trips and fouls are already dealt with, usually a booking or straight red.
I'm just putting it out there that the only was to stop it is to dock points,say 10 blatant dives and 3 point deduction, it would stop tomorrow.  Blatter has not got the balls though nor Platini
		
Click to expand...

Blatter has become like Bernie Ecclestone in that one questions whether they are running their respective sports for the right reasons these days.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

shewy said:



			Deliberate handballs,trips and fouls are already dealt with, usually a booking or straight red.
I'm just putting it out there that the only was to stop it is to dock points,say 10 blatant dives and 3 point deduction, it would stop tomorrow.  Blatter has not got the balls though nor Platini
		
Click to expand...

I dont expect and think that docking points is the right way to go - diving does need punishing but not docking points - as with all the other offences the punishment is with the player.


----------



## shewy (Dec 13, 2014)

but the player represents the team,individually punishing a player will not stop it,it needs radical thinking to stop it.
But lets face it nothing will be done about it and people will turn away from the game, I certainly watch a lot less than I used to, can't be done with watching cheats.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

shewy said:



			but the player represents the team,individually punishing a player will not stop it,it needs radical thinking to stop it.
But lets face it nothing will be done about it and people will turn away from the game, I certainly watch a lot less than I used to, can't be done with watching cheats.
		
Click to expand...

But you cant seperate diving from all the other offences that goes in within the game. Whats worse - a two footed lunge at a player or someone going down without being touched ? 

Players have gone over easily for decades


----------



## stevelev (Dec 13, 2014)

It really needs the FA to issue a statement of intent to clamp down on it.  And if any player obviously dives he WILL receive a red card. With no option for appeal. And the same should go for players who hound the ref every time there is a slight foul or they are not happy with a ruling.

Like others have said, who will start it, who will see it through.  It would take a very brave team of staff and ref's to see it through but if they did it would improve the game no end.

I know managers would make sure it never happened as they would have players off the pitch and risk losing, therefore losing their jobs.  They would not field the divers or players that hound the ref, and this would lower the value of the players. Also write into contracts that players would be paid reduced salary every time they get sent off for diving or hounding the ref.

It has ruined the game, and it is not a european thing, it happens at every level of the game so much school kids are doing it.  In golf you cheat you get a 6 month ban with no earning potential during that time, they should do the same in soccer.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

stevelev said:



			It really needs the FA to issue a statement of intent to clamp down on it.  And if any player obviously dives he WILL receive a red card. With no option for appeal. And the same should go for players who hound the ref every time there is a slight foul or they are not happy with a ruling.

Like others have said, who will start it, who will see it through.  It would take a very brave team of staff and ref's to see it through but if they did it would improve the game no end.

I know managers would make sure it never happened as they would have players off the pitch and risk losing, therefore losing their jobs.  They would not field the divers or players that hound the ref, and this would lower the value of the players. Also write into contracts that players would be paid reduced salary every time they get sent off for diving or hounding the ref.

It has ruined the game, and it is not a european thing, it happens at every level of the game so much school kids are doing it.  I*n golf you cheat you get a 6 month ban with no earning potential during that time, they should do the same in soccer*.
		
Click to expand...

Any foul is a rule break - deliberatly tripping a player is a form of cheating - pulling a shirt whilst a player is clean on goal is cheating as is deliberate handball

Diving should be treated the same as those 

Talk of 6 month bans and points docked is a bit nonsense when a lot worse happens.


----------



## shewy (Dec 13, 2014)

Did you ever play the game? There's a huge difference between a standard foul and diving, maybe not in the eye of the law but come on it's day and night.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

shewy said:



			Did you ever play the game? There's a huge difference between a standard foul and diving, maybe not in the eye of the law but come on it's day and night.
		
Click to expand...

Yes i played the game - would count denying a goal scoring opportunity as worse or a deliberate handball 

Both acts of cheating as is diving and simulation and all treated the same  - cards and bans.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 13, 2014)

Tongo said:



			Blatter has become like Bernie Ecclestone in that one questions whether they are running their respective sports for the right reasons these days.
		
Click to expand...

I think that has been getting questioned for well over 10 years. One man shouldn't have that much power, Blatter or not.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 13, 2014)

This thread is one of the reasons I'm losing interest in football. Cheats prosper.

Rather than docking points, simply change the rules to allow the ref to award a penalty to the opposition when there is a blatant dive.

Mistakes will be made  but they're made now so it won't change much.

Just seen Cahill's dive and I'm with the ref. I don't think he was trying to con the ref, I don't think he was looking for a penalty, it looked to me like he thought he was going to get clobbered and took evasive action - hence no free kick or card.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

Willian was booked for his blatent dive

Costa was boked for his blatent dive

Cahill on a yellow card was not booked for his blatent dive

Ref followed the rules of the game for two players but bottled it for Cahill.

Maureen interview is amusing 

Too many players in England do it - not Chelsea - our players are clean - not even a smirk on his face :rofl:

And as thr MOTD guys have said Cahill is lucky to be on the pitch for the first tackle and how did that Hull lad Bruce get booked for a clean quality tackle?!


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 13, 2014)

From what I understand, Scotland seem to have got it under control with a post weekend play Panel. This sort of thing - adjusted for the Monday/Tuesday play of BPL - would also work in England. It's certainly something that needs to be addressed imo!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This thread is one of the reasons I'm losing interest in football. Cheats prosper.

Rather than docking points, simply change the rules to allow the ref to award a penalty to the opposition when there is a blatant dive.

Mistakes will be made  but they're made now so it won't change much.

*Just seen Cahill's dive and I'm with the ref. I don't think he was trying to con the ref, I don't think he was looking for a penalty, it looked to me like he thought he was going to get clobbered and took evasive action - hence no free kick or card*.
		
Click to expand...

There is the problem - peoples different interpretation of it - looked to me a clear dive


----------



## Imurg (Dec 13, 2014)

Dive -yes

Trying to con the ref - for me, no....

And that's an important difference


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Dive -yes

TRyingnto con the ref - for me, no....

And that's an important difference
		
Click to expand...

As i said it will be down to peoples different interpretation hence why talk of points deduction etc is unworkable


----------



## Imurg (Dec 13, 2014)

So you think he was trying to con the ref....?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

Imurg said:



			So you think he was trying to con the ref....?
		
Click to expand...

I think he was diving to get a decision yes.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 13, 2014)

Well he didn't appeal for anything and that's as big a giveaway as you could ask for.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 13, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			The booking for Willian I totally agree with.  Clear as anything & a few others as well as me called it from nearly 100 yards away; no excuses for it & completely unacceptable.  As for the other two, I'm looking forward to MoTD to see what they make of it.  

From where I was seated, both Cahill & Costa seemed to be taking avoiding action from the swinging legs of a team that was obviously determined to kick anything that moved with the exception of the ball.  My initial reaction was that Cahill was caught and a penalty should have been given and that Costa wasn't looking for a free kick, just looking to avoid a broken leg.  We'll see.
		
Click to expand...

Having seen it again, I'm not seeing anything much different.  Willian dived.  Cahill was taking evasive action (interesting flick out of the leg by the Hull defender as Cahill goes through) anticipating the double hit that never came.  Costa tried to take evasive action but was actually caught.

What is equally odious in all of this is the dive & the cheating by Hull that has been neatly overlooked.  Meyler goes up in the Chelsea penalty area, handles the ball, and then claims a penalty.  He knows he handled it yet still claims the penalty.  And at the end of the game Costa attempts to clear the ball with an overhead kick, sees the opposition player coming in and pulls out, yet the Hull player goes down like he has been shot, holding his head if I remember correctly, whilst the team mates gather round Chris Foy petitioning for the dismissal of Costa forâ€¦â€¦â€¦.. pulling out of the tackle.  MoTD chose to cut it out, but Sky's Game of the Day showed it.

I have no argument with anyone calling out Chelsea players for doing it; I will do it when I am convinced they have done it.  But lets look equally at both sides & not be taken in by Steve Bruce's poor hard-done-to speech in the post match interviews.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 13, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Well he didn't appeal for anything and that's as big a giveaway as you could ask for.
		
Click to expand...

Actually the bigger giveaway was the way both Hull players raised their hands to protest their innocence!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 13, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Well he didn't appeal for anything and that's as big a giveaway as you could ask for.
		
Click to expand...

Or he realised that it was far too obvious and walked away sheepishly 

But the only person who really knows is the player himself

But it shows straight away how hard it is to decide if the player is diving with the intent to gain an advantage


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 13, 2014)

Well, Sorry Sam, I don't think the 'dive' against West Ham was anything more than 'going down very easy'!

Why the defender actually touched him in the first place is beyond me!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Well, Sorry Sam, I don't think the 'dive' against West Ham was anything more than 'going down very easy'!

Why the defender actually touched him in the first place is beyond me! 

Click to expand...

Because its a contact sport - it's not netball,never a penalty.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 14, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Because its a contact sport - it's not netball,never a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Sure it's a contact sport, but there are limits as to what should/should not be being used. In that situation, shoulder (to shoulder), yes; hands (or arms) to back, No! No difference to a foul with the feet/legs imo.

Was it simulation? Or 'merely' exaggeration? I'm going with the latter. Certainly seen them ignored, but the defender forces the ref(s) to make a decision that shouldn't have needed to have been made!


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 14, 2014)

all of them were dives.    cahill, what lunging tackle was he trying to hurdle?    then he flicks his feet about in the air.     surefire give away sign of a dive! 


https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/8B...p4?versionId=7skmU.yXF7RY.mQTmmy7Jwi7bLlkoqJH


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 14, 2014)

The Cahill one is very similar to a tackle an arsenal player did on Rooney once. I think it was Sol. Sol went to put his foot out, but then withdrew it at the last minute, and Rooney, anticipating contact, went over. Sol got a red card.

It's amazing how you can view these incidences so differently.


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 14, 2014)

Steve Bruce summed up my views in his BBC interview. Hope he doesn't get hauled over coals for the comments, which were pretty critical!

Btw. He's looking particularly rough these days - and that's after getting used to him looking rough some time ago!


----------



## JCW (Dec 14, 2014)

anotherdouble said:



			This is now out of hand. 2 players booked for my beloved Chelsea today and the worst dive was Cahill who was already on a yellow, was not booked.

This cheating must be stamped out. 3 match immediate bans. And if like my team today, two people are caught doing it the points should be docked or the players bans increased. 

The onus is then on the managers to stamp it out in their clubs
		
Click to expand...

Jose M stop cheating and trying to win by the dark methods , pigs will fly


----------



## Biggleswade Blue (Dec 14, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This thread is one of the reasons I'm losing interest in football. Cheats prosper.

Rather than docking points, simply change the rules to allow the ref to award a penalty to the opposition when there is a blatant dive.

Mistakes will be made  but they're made now so it won't change much.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely dead right.


----------



## Tongo (Dec 14, 2014)

Imurg said:



			This thread is one of the reasons I'm losing interest in football. Cheats prosper.

Rather than docking points, simply change the rules to allow the ref to award a penalty to the opposition when there is a blatant dive.

*Mistakes will be made  but they're made now so it won't change much.*

Just seen Cahill's dive and I'm with the ref. I don't think he was trying to con the ref, I don't think he was looking for a penalty, it looked to me like he thought he was going to get clobbered and took evasive action - hence no free kick or card.
		
Click to expand...

I'm forever amazed at how people expect the refs to get everything right. They are at an instant disadvantage in that they are past 40 refereeing players half their age and they have to make decisions on split second viewings. Guess what? They get some wrong. But the fans / pundits who get multiple viewings on slo-mo replays slag them off relentlessly for having to work under such disadvantages.


----------



## JCW (Dec 14, 2014)

BBC sport panel came up with an idea i mention on here before , A panel to sit after the weeks games and look at all the dives ? and decide whats what and award a red card for what they deem to be a dive plus a fine , that go some way to stopping them if they know they are not getting away with , well on the day maybe but will be punish later , a repeat offender will get a longer ban each time


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

JCW said:



			Jose M stop cheating and trying to win by the dark methods , pigs will fly
		
Click to expand...

http://youtu.be/R0f7uuZkFBs


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 14, 2014)

Here's 1 way to handle it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd65g3hqJrk


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2014)

Referees will never get anything right. The officials in any sport don't even if video technology is available. They don't always use it (when they should) and so mistakes happen. In football with the pace of play and no chance to review there will be mistakes, especially when assistant referees and 4th officials don't help. That said, I don't see retrospective boards being an answer. The Cahill one yesterday as Imurg points out could be viewed as taken preventative action. 

It's a problem in the modern game and one that the top level from Fifa, Uefa and the FA aren't prepared to take action and certainly I can't see the FA taking action without Uefa sanction to do so. It will continue until someone in power, certainly not Blatter or Platini grows a pair and decides to act


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Referees will never get *anything* right. The officials in any sport don't even if video technology is available. They don't always use it (when they should) and so mistakes happen. In football with the pace of play and no chance to review there will be mistakes, especially when assistant referees and 4th officials don't help. That said, I don't see retrospective boards being an answer. The Cahill one yesterday as Imurg points out could be viewed as taken preventative action. 

It's a problem in the modern game and one that the top level from Fifa, Uefa and the FA aren't prepared to take action and certainly I can't see the FA taking action without Uefa sanction to do so. It will continue until someone in power, certainly not Blatter or Platini grows a pair and decides to act
		
Click to expand...

I trust you actually mean 'everything' rather than 'anything'! 

Here's the SFA's process. http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/285394-explained-how-the-scottish-fa-punish-diving/ Seems to work pretty well up there! The only 'problem' I see with this is that the honest it encourages/dishonesty it discourages is carried over to the National team when they play against countries where diving is an accepted part of the game!

But knowing it's going to be ignored by FIFA/EUFA means it has to be tackled by individual FAs or Leagues!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2014)

And leaving it up to the FA, especially ours, means it'll never happen


----------



## Rumpokid (Dec 14, 2014)

Bottom line on this thread is that players need to take a good look at themselves, whether from overseas, or British players..Refs will always miss things, but the likes of what Cahill and others did, and  do is not good for the game.I think Cahill is a very good CH, for the rec.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2014)

Problem is that two weeks ago, augero got booked for diving and he got absolutely flattened in what was an obvious penalty. So refs get it wrong when it's right (penalty) and wrong when it's wrong (diving).

a ref said last week when City got a soft penalty (when Milner went down from a perfectly good challenge ) that if City keep getting decisions like that they will win the Premier. he did not say that if we keep getting decisions like the Aguero decision we will be relegated.

Why book the first two and not the third/Cahill tells me that the Bias Utd used to get has been transferred to Stamford bridge.

There is a misconception that if you book um for diving then they will stop. Saturday at Stamford bridge proved that will not be the case unless Chelsea have three of the thickest players in the prem


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 14, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			Why book the first two and not the third/Cahill tells me that the Bias Utd used to get has been transferred to Stamford bridge.
		
Click to expand...

If you seriously think that after the Clattenburg incident then you really haven't got a clue.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			If you seriously think that after the *Clattenburg incident* then you really haven't got a clue. 

Click to expand...

Blimey that narrows it down a bit ? Which one ?


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

Fine the managers 1 months wages, it'll soon stop. Sighting committee of 1 ref, 1 player and 3 fans.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

Old Skier said:



*Fine the managers 1 months wages*, it'll soon stop. Sighting committee of 1 ref, 1 player and 3 fans.
		
Click to expand...

Can say we a great deal of confidence that it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can say we a great deal of confidence that it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference
		
Click to expand...

Make it six months then who cares. In the end, you need to find away of punishing the managers.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			Make it six months then who cares. In the end, you need to find away of punishing the managers.
		
Click to expand...

Its not the managers doing the diving ! You punish the players who commit the act.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2014)

It's not the manager. You have to punish the players but the FA don't have the balls to act


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its not the managers doing the diving ! You punish the players who commit the act.
		
Click to expand...

While the managers as we saw this and many other weekends denied it is even going on when it involves their players.

Managers are there to manage (and I know it's not the modern way of thinking) and should be made responsible for everything they manage, which I believe includes players.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey that narrows it down a bit ? Which one ?
		
Click to expand...

Yup which one.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			While the managers as we saw this and many other weekends denied it is even going on when it involves their players.

Managers are there to manage (and I know it's not the modern way of thinking) and should be made responsible for everything they manage, which I believe includes players.
		
Click to expand...

So do you punish a manager for everything the player does outside the laws of the game ?!

Managers will always protect their players to the media


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2014)

The thing is, players get booked and sent off for transgressing the laws and the manager has no control on that on the pitch. Manager's don't get punished for that and there is no way they should get punished for a player diving. Of course in public they'll stand up for their players and you wouldn't expect them to do otherwise. It would be nice if one did stand up and say "he cheated to get that penalty" but I can't see it happening


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So do you punish a manager for everything the player does outside the laws of the game ?!

Managers will always protect their players to the media
		
Click to expand...

Whats the media got to do with it. I thought this was about cheats who dive.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			Whats the media got to do with it. I thought this was about cheats who dive.
		
Click to expand...

Umm its the media who the managers speak to when they say their players dont dive as you mentioned in your post about managers denying it :mmm:


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Of course in public they'll stand up for their players and you wouldn't expect them to do otherwise. It would be nice if one did stand up and say "he cheated to get that penalty" but I can't see it happening
		
Click to expand...

And there lies the problem. Managers are seen in public to condone cheating when everyone else saw the player cheat.


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2014)

Wait I cannot get my head around is that the FA pick and chose when it will and will not use retrospective video evidence on certain issues that have happened over the weekend. Players are judged by there mistakes or intent. Usually when referees have missed something. If a ref gives a yellow then he is deemed to have dealt and punished the issue there and then. However if a player is deliberately cheating by diving them why not judge that by video evidence. It won't change a result but a ban may change people's/ players attitudes towards diving.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Umm its the media who the managers speak to when they say their players dont dive as you mentioned in your post about managers denying it :mmm:
		
Click to expand...

So are your happy that managers lie to the media when their players cheat.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

The FA dont pick and chose - they go by what the ref does or doesnt put in the match report or if they deal with it on the pitch or not.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			So are your happy that managers lie to the media when their players cheat.
		
Click to expand...

When did i say that ?

Its the players that break the rules - its them that need punished

All managers protect their players in Press Conferences.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			However if a player is deliberately cheating by diving them why not judge that by video evidence. It won't change a result but a ban may change people's/ players attitudes towards diving.
		
Click to expand...

And mangers will start loosing players which will make them sort their players out.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

It was a question which only required a yes or no answer, I havnt said you say anything


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2014)

If a referee makes a decision like the Aguero one and books him, that's done and dusted and there's no further action deemed necessary. The FA seem reluctant to use video evidence on this subject and I can't see that changing and until it does and they ban players they'll keep on doing it. Manager's won't slate players in the media. Of course if the English game becomes a pantheon of fair play what happens when we despicable foreign johnnies play our boys and use these tactics to win. Will we be happy we lost doing the right thing?


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Of course if the English game becomes a pantheon of fair play what happens when we despicable foreign johnnies play our boys and use these tactics to win. Will we be happy we lost doing the right thing?
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunatly this week one of the worst culprits was English and plays for England.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 14, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			If you seriously think that after the Clattenburg incident then you really haven't got a clue. 

Click to expand...




Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey that narrows it down a bit ? Which one ?
		
Click to expand...




Tashyboy said:



			Yup which one.
		
Click to expand...

Please tell that this is a failed attempt at humour?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			Unfortunatly this week one of the worst culprits was English and plays for England.
		
Click to expand...

This week maybe. What about last week or next. If you think that was bad I guess you don't watch much Serie A or La Liga football


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The FA dont pick and chose - they go by what the ref does or doesnt put in the match report or if they deal with it on the pitch or not.
		
Click to expand...

yeah but they do phil, if a ref is deemed in his report that he did not "see it" a panel sits through video evidence and decides whether to charge an individual or not. If you dive you go to video evidence end of.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 14, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If you think that was bad I guess you don't watch much Serie A or La Liga football
		
Click to expand...

I don't think I watch much but HID might disagree.

Thank heavens the skiings back on the box, they don't tend to fall over on purpose in that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Please tell that this is a failed attempt at humour?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry mate Battenburg has made that many shocking desicions i have lost count ?


----------



## Tashyboy (Dec 14, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Please tell that this is a failed attempt at humour?
		
Click to expand...

No blue it's not coz if it is the Milner penalty I have already said it was never a penalty and Milner went down under a challenge but he never dived.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Dec 14, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			No blue it's not coz if it is the Milner penalty I have already said it was never a penalty and Milner went down under a challenge but he never dived.
		
Click to expand...

Why on earth would the Milner incident have anything to do with bias being extended towards Chelsea?  

I was referring to the incident involving him & Ramires.  If you think after that we get a free ride from referees then you really are having a laugh.  If Foy didn't book him it was for one of two reasons; ineptitude or because it wasn't a dive, and having been there and seen it live, my money in this instance is on the latter.  Costa was ineptitude & the Willian booking was absolutely correct.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2014)

Bad weekend for refereeing and officialdom - change is needed.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Dec 14, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			and having been there and seen it live,
		
Click to expand...

How dare you have the temerity to actually attend a football match, and come on here posting your musings. Your just showing off.

Shame on you.:whoo:


----------



## Tongo (Dec 15, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			Wait I cannot get my head around is that the FA pick and chose when it will and will not use retrospective video evidence on certain issues that have happened over the weekend. Players are judged by there mistakes or intent. Usually when referees have missed something. If a ref gives a yellow then he is deemed to have dealt and punished the issue there and then. However if a player is deliberately cheating by diving them why not judge that by video evidence. It won't change a result but a ban may change people's/ players attitudes towards diving.
		
Click to expand...

Banning players is the only answer. As for the FA, well there's almost a white elephant where the PL's concerned.


----------



## JCW (Dec 15, 2014)

All you guys having a go at the refs is not right , sure they make mistakes , can`t really blame them as the players try everything to con them by whatever means including cheating and you got Mr dark arts himself Jose M the special one coming on telly saying his players are clean , if he said no comment i would respect that more , last week he was saying the newcastle ball boys were cheating , they are all cheats and its time a panel sit after every weekend games and deal with playing acting , diving and the rest and dish out bans of 1 to 5 matches , more for repeat offenders ..............its not the refs fault he gets it wrong now and again with all this cheating goin on :sbox: :thup:


----------



## Tarkus1212 (Dec 15, 2014)

I love all this "Jose M & the dark arts" rubbish. JM is doing what JM has always done which is to deflect all of the aggravation away from his players and on to himself. Of course he knows Cahill and Willian dived (I'm less convinced in Costa's case) and so he says stupid things like "I didn't see it" which we all know is total BS. Same with the rubbish about the ball boys at Newcastle - Chelsea lose and the headlines are all about what JM said not any shortcomings of the players or even about how well Newcastle played. JM plays the media game better than anyone else in the game and they fall for it every time (or maybe they dived??).


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2014)

Tarkus1212 said:



			I love all this "Jose M & the dark arts" rubbish. JM is doing what JM has always done which is to deflect all of the aggravation away from his players and on to himself. Of course he knows Cahill and Willian dived (I'm less convinced in Costa's case) and so he says stupid things like "I didn't see it" which we all know is total BS. Same with the rubbish about the ball boys at Newcastle - Chelsea lose and the headlines are all about what JM said not any shortcomings of the players or even about how well Newcastle played. JM plays the media game better than anyone else in the game and they fall for it every time (or maybe they dived??).
		
Click to expand...

So who is to blame when Arsenal players dive ?

And isn't Wenger the King of not seeing stuff?


----------



## Tarkus1212 (Dec 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So who is to blame when Arsenal players dive ?

And isn't Wenger the King of not seeing stuff?
		
Click to expand...

Of course Arsene is the king of blindness but he says it all the time - I don't recall JM saying it before, probably because anyone can see that he has access to a tv at all times at Stamford Bridge. As to who is to blame when Arsenal players dive, the player is as in every case. I don't believe that any clubs practise diving - if they do then Cahill clearly missed that session.


----------



## JCW (Dec 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So who is to blame when Arsenal players dive ?

And isn't Wenger the King of not seeing stuff?
		
Click to expand...

If you trying to have a dig at me , try harder as I am not  that soft , or run to the mods saying we are having a go at you , yes they have dived and have been pulled up for it , Carzola is one you posted a video of on here to have a dig , the same player stayed on his feet this week  and scored when he could have gone down , put that in your tinted glass pipe and smoke it ...........LS is not leaving , he has left lol :thup:


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So who is to blame when Arsenal players dive ?

And isn't Wenger the King of not seeing stuff?
		
Click to expand...

Your surely not inferring its Mr Wengers fault. You said previously it has nothing to do with the managers.

PS, still waiting for the answer to the question I left for you several pages back.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			Your surely not inferring its Mr Wengers fault. You said previously it has nothing to do with the managers.

PS, still waiting for the answer to the question I left for you several pages back.
		
Click to expand...

No I'm not suggesting it's the managers fault 

Which question is that ?


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 15, 2014)

why not a red card for obvious dives in the box  if you stop a goal scoring chance you get sent off.   clear dive to gain a goal scoring chance should have the same result.


----------



## JCW (Dec 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No I'm not suggesting it's the managers fault 

Which question is that ?
		
Click to expand...


You should change your name to Germany , because in world war 2 they ended up fighting a battle on all fronts due to their actions  :thup:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			why not a red card for obvious dives in the box  if you stop a goal scoring chance you get sent off.   clear dive to gain a goal scoring chance should have the same result.
		
Click to expand...

Certainly the most sensible suggestion :thup:


----------



## Tarkus1212 (Dec 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly the most sensible suggestion :thup:
		
Click to expand...

I agree, although you'll probably get more refs bottling the decision.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			why not a red card for obvious dives in the box  if you stop a goal scoring chance you get sent off.   clear dive to gain a goal scoring chance should have the same result.
		
Click to expand...

The trouble is the laws don't allow for that at the moment and simulation is a yellow irrespective of where it occurs. Good suggestion but I can't see the law being changed to allow it


----------



## JCW (Dec 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The trouble is the laws don't allow for that at the moment and simulation is a yellow irrespective of where it occurs. Good suggestion but I can't see the law being changed to allow it
		
Click to expand...

A panel sitting after the event handing out bans is all that is needed , panel of say 5 , one ex ref , one ex manager and 3 ex players , must be clear cut anything 50/50 or near should go with the player , Pl should go alone on this and the rest will follow


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No I'm not suggesting it's the managers fault 

Which question is that ?
		
Click to expand...

You couldn't be bothered to answer, which is your normal form, I can't be bothered to go back and find it.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 15, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			why not a red card for obvious dives in the box  if you stop a goal scoring chance you get sent off.   clear dive to gain a goal scoring chance should have the same result.
		
Click to expand...

You still need to have the ref deciding to do this.

Since paid refs have come into being with their wages linked to games officiated in the standards have fallen when it comes to refs being consistent.

They are in the hands of the football managers we have already had several high profile cases where refs have been taken off the list for a number of weeks because mangers didn't like the way officials handled their match.


----------



## Old Skier (Dec 15, 2014)

JCW said:



			A panel sitting after the event handing out bans is all that is needed , panel of say 5 , one ex ref , one ex manager and 3 ex players , must be clear cut anything 50/50 or near should go with the player , Pl should go alone on this and the rest will follow
		
Click to expand...

Interested to know why players. They are the ones that started the problem.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2014)

Tarkus1212 said:



			I agree, although you'll probably get more refs bottling the decision.
		
Click to expand...

That there is no doubt


----------



## JCW (Dec 15, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			Interested to know why players. They are the ones that started the problem.
		
Click to expand...

Got to have an all round view and input into the panel , maybe even have the following , a fan/ football writer  , a player , a ref , a manager and a TV pundit all sitting round the table and shown on sky as they go through all the matches after the weekend games and dish out the bans , make good viewing and get players and managers thinking about their actions in future :thup:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 15, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			You couldn't be bothered to answer, which is your normal form, I can't be bothered to go back and find it.
		
Click to expand...

Well looked back and if it's about managers in press conference - It doesn't bother me what they say - sometimes it is very funny


----------

