# My swing



## Captainron (Feb 22, 2012)

Just had a lesson and had my swing videod. 

I hit a draw as a standard shot. Apparently I need to add a little width onto my backswing and try and maintain more flex in my right leg. Anything else?  Quality is pretty average but he has slowed it down a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtKn-gFhsg


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## AxelBenito (Feb 22, 2012)

Must be alright if you play off eight!


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 22, 2012)

Good amount of lag...


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## thecraw (Feb 22, 2012)

Fell asleep after 31 seconds. Too slow.


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## RichardC (Feb 22, 2012)

Not that I know what im talking about, but that looked good.


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## Captainron (Feb 22, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Fell asleep after 31 seconds. Too slow.
		
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Now now Crawford, play nice. You have responsibilities now that you are one of the chosen few!!!


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## DaveM (Feb 22, 2012)

Nowt much wrong with that to my eyes. Maybe widen the stance a tad, to give a better grounding. Nice to see another person who swings, in-square-in. Nice one. Bob will be along soon to put me right though. .



Oh just noticed the right leg is straightening in the backswing. But its back in position at impact.


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## One Planer (Feb 22, 2012)

Oh just noticed the right leg is straightening in the backswing. But its back in position at impact.
		
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What's wrong with that?















** Plugs in popcorn machine and waits **


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 22, 2012)

Gareth said:



			What's wrong with that?QUOTE]

Beat me to it.

Robert Rock... right knee straightening on backswing... allowing easier hip turn, keeping swing centred, deeper shoulder turn. 

[video=youtube;GDi6CKq5XXU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDi6CKq5XXU&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/video]
		
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## sawtooth (Feb 22, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:





Gareth said:



			What's wrong with that?QUOTE]

Beat me to it.

Robert Rock... right knee straightening on backswing... allowing easier hip turn, keeping swing centred, deeper shoulder turn. 

[video=youtube;GDi6CKq5XXU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDi6CKq5XXU&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/video]
		
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I think the problem comes when the leg straightens drastically from what it was at address and also if you lock it straight. In RR case I dont think it changes much at all. 

If you go from really flexed at address to really straight then you will have problems maintaining your height in the swing. I try to keep the flex the same throughout the swing. Your hip should turn out of the way not really go up.
		
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## sawtooth (Feb 22, 2012)

Captainron said:



			Just had a lesson and had my swing videod. 

I hit a draw as a standard shot. Apparently I need to add a little width onto my backswing and try and maintain more flex in my right leg. Anything else? Quality is pretty average but he has slowed it down a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtKn-gFhsg

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Nice swing shame about the video quality. Anyone pointing a camera from a dark area into the light should know that you are going to get a really dark picture. Your pro needs a backlight on his camera or tell him to turn the lights on.


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## DaveM (Feb 22, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:





Gareth said:



			What's wrong with that?QUOTE]

Beat me to it.

Robert Rock... right knee straightening on backswing... allowing easier hip turn, keeping swing centred, deeper shoulder turn. 

[video=youtube;GDi6CKq5XXU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDi6CKq5XXU&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/video]
		
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Did I say it was where did I say that. Goodness these S&Ters are so touchy. It was an observation, Try reading what I wrote. Not what you think I wrote. .
		
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## One Planer (Feb 22, 2012)

If you go from really flexed at address to really straight then you will have problems maintaining your height in the swing. I try to keep the flex the same throughout the swing. Your hip should turn out of the way not really go up.
		
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How can you possibly get a decent hip turn without straightening (to some extent) the right leg??

I, personally don't think you can, and If you were to view it it would seem very armsy.


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 22, 2012)

;520041 said:
			
		




Sawtooth said:



			I think the problem comes when the leg straightens drastically from what it was at address and also if you lock it straight. In RR case I dont think it changes much at all. 

If you go from really flexed at address to really straight then you will have problems maintaining your height in the swing. I try to keep the flex the same throughout the swing. Your hip should turn out of the way not really go up.
		
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I agree that the locking of the knee is bad. However there are plenty of very good players who straighten the right knee during the backswing to great effect. But because the straightening of the right leg is a component of S&T methodolgy, there are those who have belatedly decided that a straightening right knee is the work of the devil. It isn't and never has been... 

As a means to develop proper deep shoulder turn, avoid a big sway off the ball and remain more centred, it's one of the simplest and most effective changes I've ever incorporated into my golf swing.
		
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## JustOne (Feb 22, 2012)

DaveM said:



			Nowt much wrong with that to my eyes. Maybe widen the stance a tad, to give a better grounding. Nice to see another person who swings, in-square-in. Nice one. Bob will be along soon to put me right though. .



Oh just noticed the right leg is straightening in the backswing. But its back in position at impact.
		
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^
^
^
I love this. Get your tuppence in first before declaring Bob will be along soon... it's a classic forum move :thup:

Genius.


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## One Planer (Feb 22, 2012)

However there are plenty of very good players who straighten the right knee during the backswing to great effect
		
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Luke Donald
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbskozAvD4g

Phil Mickleson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7Ee3otUbc

Rory Mcilroy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpp5ioV-S0

Martin Kaymer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXgMtdFzqU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLEF07C6B1C0A6E448





........ I see a pattern forming here


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 22, 2012)

DaveM said:



			Did I say it was where did I say that. Goodness these S&Ters are so touchy. It was an observation, Try reading what I wrote. Not what you think I wrote. .
		
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Ok, so you have observed, so now bring something to the debate then. You observed that the right leg straightened on the backswing. What was the point you were making there, as apprently it was carefully worded to carry no judgement? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?


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## DaveM (Feb 22, 2012)

Dangle a bait, you will always get a bite. You should know that better than anyone JO.:rofl: .


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## JustOne (Feb 22, 2012)

If I could pick up on one thing it would be that your left knee is pointing behind the ball, that means that you're a little narrow with your legs at the top and the left knee has to do a lot of work to get you back to being 'stable' on the downswing. I'd say that the knee/thigh should point no more left than 'at the ball' then it can recover to a better position on the downswing.

A better lower body can help your position at the top as you'll feel more supported and can hold more 'width' in your swing without feeling off balance or over swinging (yours is a fraction long for me).

As were all into 'Robert Rock' swings at the moment here's a vid...... 

[video=youtube;LQAhgiMOwRE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQAhgiMOwRE[/video]


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## sawtooth (Feb 22, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Luke Donald
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbskozAvD4g

Phil Mickleson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7Ee3otUbc

Rory Mcilroy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpp5ioV-S0

Martin Kaymer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXgMtdFzqU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLEF07C6B1C0A6E448





........ I see a pattern forming here
		
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Are they straightening their right leg? Not sure. Mickleson's baggy trousers impossible to tell. Donald I dont this leg flex changed much if at all. Rory hard to tell from side on but looks like flex remains. Kaymer possibly went a bit straighter but not conclusive. 

OK I dont mind if you laugh at this,  but isnt it true that the leg also twists as the hips turn so even if the same amount of flex in the knee remained, it would look straighter from the same fixed camera angle? In other words if you did a really exaggerated turn with the hips you would eventually see the right leg almost face on (knee facing the camera). It will be flexed but you wouldnt see it? Does that make any sense at all?

I think its an illusion. Professional golfers back leg remains flexed at all times but the camera angle makes it look like it had straightened. Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.


Most important to not trust the camera and just feel like you have some flex in that back leg IMO.


Going out to get some more straws to clutch at...I might be some time.


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## JustOne (Feb 22, 2012)

Some straighten it, some don't and some do it a little bit which is why you can't say to maintain it. If it needs to straighten a bit then let it.

It's semantics but straightening *IS NOT* locking it scaffold pole straight.



Manaserro



Tom Watson



Bubba




Rickie 'Eastenders' Fowler....


Then you can have someone *not* quite so famous who keeps ALL of his knee flex.... 




Rhys Davies


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## DaveM (Feb 22, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Luke Donald
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbskozAvD4g

Phil Mickelson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7Ee3otUbc

Rory Mcilroy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpp5ioV-S0

Martin Kaymer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXgMtdFzqU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLEF07C6B1C0A6E448





........ I see a pattern forming here
		
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If you think that they are straightening their back leg. You are clutching at straws. Luke Donald,s & Rory McIlroys, hips do not rise in the back swing. If they straightened their back leg their hips would rise. Hard to tell with Mickelson but don't appear to. Same reason as above. Kaymer does appear to straighten slightly in the back swing.

Thats what I see anyway.:whoo: .


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## JustOne (Feb 22, 2012)

^
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Yeah... those specific examples are dubious at best, Donald isn't doing much there, Mickelson a bit, Rory a bit, Kaymer not much

this guy straightened just about as much as he could and won a couple of majors
Stop it at the top of his backswing...
[video=youtube;6D926CCOg7A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D926CCOg7A[/video]

Telling someone to maintain the flex that they had at address if they don't need to is wrong. It's like telling someone to weaken or strengthen their grip... it's like saying you MUST have a strong grip.

It's a variable! if it needs to straighten then let it.


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## Captainron (Feb 22, 2012)

So I don't need to maintain much flex in the knee then? Confused.com


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## JustOne (Feb 22, 2012)

Captainron said:



			So I don't need to maintain much flex in the knee then? Confused.com
		
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DaveM took the thread completely off topic as per usual...... 


(kidding......!)


post #19 is what I think.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 22, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Luke Donald
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbskozAvD4g

Phil Mickleson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7Ee3otUbc

Rory Mcilroy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpp5ioV-S0

Martin Kaymer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXgMtdFzqU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLEF07C6B1C0A6E448





........ I see a pattern forming here
		
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None of these straighten their back legs.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 22, 2012)

I have to admit to only having a basic understanding of S&T so cannot really comment on how the legs must work there.

In the normal one or two plane swing straightening of the back leg in the backswing is a very bad move.  It stops you transfering weight correctly and is a main contributor to the reverse pivot.  It gets the shoulders off plane by dipping the front shoulder as you go back and doing the same with the back in the downswing.  It destroys seperation between the hips and shoulders thus leaking rotational power.    Other than anything used in S&T it is IMO one of the worse things someone can do.   Just take a search on google and read the vast amount of teaching experts that advise against it.

Many of the pics shown are misleading due to the camera angle and poor light in some of them, it's no good searching for pictures like these, I can find masses of them that support the flexed knee theory.

Here is a link to a sample thread explaining the issue :  http://sarasotagolftips.blogspot.com/2011/03/keep-right-knee-flexed.html.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 22, 2012)

JustOne said:



			^
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Yeah... those specific examples are dubious at best, Donald isn't doing much there, Mickelson a bit, Rory a bit, Kaymer not much

this guy straightened just about as much as he could and won a couple of majors
Stop it at the top of his backswing...
[video=youtube;6D926CCOg7A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D926CCOg7A[/video]

Telling someone to maintain the flex that they had at address if they don't need to is wrong. It's like telling someone to weaken or strengthen their grip... it's like saying you MUST have a strong grip.

It's a variable! if it needs to straighten then let it.
		
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Travino had a swing all of his own, great player but not a swing that any one teaches.


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## Foxholer (Feb 22, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			Travino had a swing all of his own, great player but not a swing that any one teaches.
		
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Lots of descriptions of Trevino's swing - none of them mention 'classic' or 'textbook' except in the negative!

'A caveman killing his lunch'.
"five wrongs" that combine to make "an immaculate right." His stance was open, his grip firm, his shoulders pointing to the left of the point he was aiming for. Standing low over the ball, Trevino reached the top of his swing, his left wrist pushed outward, then he dragged the club down flat to the left.

Re Captainron's...

I guess I can see why coach want's a wider takeaway. Does seem to be inside then straight up. You also seem to change your spine angle significantly (getting more upright) on the downswing. Great lag!​


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## JustOne (Feb 22, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			I have to admit to only having a basic understanding of S&T so cannot really comment on how the legs must work there.

In the normal one or two plane swing straightening of the back leg in the backswing is a very bad move. It stops you transfering weight correctly and is a main contributor to the reverse pivot. It gets the shoulders off plane by dipping the front shoulder as you go back and doing the same with the back in the downswing. It destroys seperation between the hips and shoulders thus leaking rotational power. Other than anything used in S&T it is IMO one of the worse things someone can do. Just take a search on google and read the vast amount of teaching experts that advise against it.

Many of the pics shown are misleading due to the camera angle and poor light in some of them, it's no good searching for pictures like these, I can find masses of them that support the flexed knee theory.

Here is a link to a sample thread explaining the issue : http://sarasotagolftips.blogspot.com/2011/03/keep-right-knee-flexed.html.
		
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You're referencing a blog that has approx 4 posts? 

Reverse pivot? Only if you don't know how to turn your shoulders properly.

Understanding that *if you move your weight to the right whilst trying to keep your head over the ball* will make you reverse pivot, is *FAR* more important.


From the blog...



			the flexed right knee affords the stability needed to transfer weight to your right side on the backswing and position it in your right hip at the top
		
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If you want to stack over your right knee in a big move OFF THE BALL ala Leadbetter... keep it flexed.


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## Foxholer (Feb 22, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			In the normal one or two plane swing straightening of the back leg in the backswing is a very bad move.  It stops you transfering weight correctly and is a main contributor to the reverse pivot.  It gets the shoulders off plane by dipping the front shoulder as you go back and doing the same with the back in the downswing.  It destroys seperation between the hips and shoulders thus leaking rotational power.    Other than anything used in S&T it is IMO one of the worse things someone can do.   Just take a search on google and read the vast amount of teaching experts that advise against it.

Many of the pics shown are misleading due to the camera angle and poor light in some of them, it's no good searching for pictures like these, I can find masses of them that support the flexed knee theory.

Here is a link to a sample thread explaining the issue :  http://sarasotagolftips.blogspot.com/2011/03/keep-right-knee-flexed.html.
		
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That blog is such an obvious anti-S&T one it should be labelled as such. Or at least acknowledge that what they are saying does not apply to S&T! Or only to the Weight Transfer swing.

And besides that, much of it is a load of sh1te anyway - even for the Weight Shift swing!

Do agree that a stiff right leg is a major problem for Weight Transfer swing though.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 23, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			That blog is such an obvious anti-S&T one it should be labelled as such. Or at least acknowledge that what they are saying does not apply to S&T! Or only to the Weight Transfer swing.

And besides that, much of it is a load of sh1te anyway - even for the Weight Shift swing!

Do agree that a stiff right leg is a major problem for Weight Transfer swing though.
		
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Dont just look at that link, as I sugested google it and see how many coaches support the flexed right knee.  I dont argue anything about S&T , IMO it is not the mainstay of golf swings.


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## Foxholer (Feb 23, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			Dont just look at that link, as I sugested google it and see how many coaches support the flexed right knee.  I dont argue anything about S&T , IMO it is not the mainstay of golf swings.
		
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Not sure whether you got the message I was trying to convey. Yes, the stiff right leg is 'bad' for the Weight Transfer (traditional) swing so the there should be loads of coaches supporting the flexed one. Of course, the reason is that flexed right leg enables weight transfer to occur while a stiff right leg tends to prevent it. But to simply say that you must always have a flexed right leg, for all swings, is wrong as, in the case of an S&T swing, this supports the 'stay centred' (no weight transfer) concept that is fundamental to its approach.

So 
for traditional Weight Transfer swing; stiff right leg = bad
for S&T swing; stiff(ish) right leg = not bad,. In fact, very probably good


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## SocketRocket (Feb 23, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Not sure whether you got the message I was trying to convey. Yes, the stiff right leg is 'bad' for the Weight Transfer (traditional) swing so the there should be loads of coaches supporting the flexed one. Of course, the reason is that flexed right leg enables weight transfer to occur while a stiff right leg tends to prevent it. But to simply say that you must always have a flexed right leg, for all swings, is wrong as, in the case of an S&T swing, this supports the 'stay centred' (no weight transfer) concept that is fundamental to its approach.

So 
for traditional Weight Transfer swing; stiff right leg = bad
for S&T swing; stiff(ish) right leg = not bad,. In fact, very probably good
		
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I think thats what I said. I made a rider that it may be different in S&T.


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## Captainron (Feb 23, 2012)

I am pretty sure my swing is not S&T. I always thought I had a fairly classic swing?


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## JustOne (Feb 23, 2012)

Captainron said:



			I am pretty sure my swing is not S&T. I always thought I had a fairly classic swing?
		
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No, your swing isn't S&T, the thread has just gone off topic and is talking about weight shift and the right leg straightening in various golf swing types.

I think your right leg is fine, it's the left that collapses inward a little too much.


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## garyinderry (Feb 24, 2012)

i straighten out the right leg on the back swing. i think it depends how flexible you are. in my case im not but it doesnt really affect it. some nice lag on this swing.

robert rock doesnt take the club back to parallel. i think i strive to do this too much when recording my swing. no real need is there?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 24, 2012)

Robert does not straighten his right leg in the backswing.


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