# Help required with swing issues - drills required:



## Oddsocks (Jan 31, 2016)

evening all, posting as i'm after some opinions from the  more technically minded on here.  last year i pretty much had the worst golfing season since starting back in 07 and despite a course of lessons nothing seemed to progress.

A few regular PP's at the club had commented that the old smooth swing that I used to have that some had commented showed similarities to Mr Els (easy and smooth) had gone and been replaced with something very short, rushed and erratic.  

The pro I visited quickly diagnosed a lack of recoil/body turn in the back swing forcing everything to become rushed in an effort to manufacture power from a very short back swing.  

On with the drills and as part of a pre shot range routine I would place a club across my shoulders and ensure that I took three full back swings where the club would be more than 90* turned before stepping to the ball, this worked well at the range but I couldn't get it to the course. I found it even more constructive to do this with my eyes closed for a more precise feedback when doing it is a drill but despite having this as a totally natural feeling i just cant get it into my actually swing when standing over the ball.

I've spent many an hour at home with a tour stick across my shoulders drilling this in, yet when I step to the ball I fail to trust what i have been grooving and everything becomes a massive rush / panic attack style swing with no power.  

The above was confirmed when i recently tried new irons and the man in the shop asked who i'd sold my old swing to as the one new had no recoil, no rhythm and no power!

Anyway, the point of this post is for any others to see if I'm missing something, and a plead for drills that may help me fight this.  as it stands I'm four lessons in with around 15-20 hours range time and still feel no closer to fighting this issue.

The current shot is seeing a really high weak fade with no compression against the ball, and i'm estimating that my distances are down by around 30 yards per iron.  As an example throughout the complete season of 2014 my 7I as a smooth shot would be around 165yards, and if i leant on it hard i could push one out to around 175yards.  At the moment i reckon the same club is hitting around 135-140 yards,

from the links to the video's below, as well as being snatchy and rushed, it looks to me like my back swing has become very flat which is obviously not helping the restricted shorter back swing.

Any constructive input is deeply appreciated as seeing a pro has obviously not been rewarding.

Thanks in advance


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## Oddsocks (Jan 31, 2016)

Face on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smzENkbacCw

Down the line:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewNEO17bajc


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## Oddsocks (Jan 31, 2016)

I should add at the start of last season in 2015 my 8I swing speed was 80-82mph as an average, and in my recent session on a flight scope the &i speed started off at 65mph, although this increased up 72-73mph as an average as a warmed up.  finding it really hard to see how ive managed to lose over 10mph with a longer club.

The 2015 stat of 80-82mph was from just after my game had started to deteriorate so im guessing my norman swing speed with an 8i would be mid 80's


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## One Planer (Feb 1, 2016)

Nowt wrong with a flat backswing 

Personally Baz, I think your swing may have gotten a little narrow.

If you look at your face on video when the shaft is, roughly, parallel to the ground notice how close your hands are to your body.







That's pretty narrow IMO.

I have good width in my swing and it's one of the reasons (... Or so my Pro tells me) why I can get hit the ball a good distance.

Look where my hands are at a similar point in the backswing:







That could be one of the reasons for your loss of pace. It may also explain the shortness of your swing.


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## UlyssesSky (Feb 1, 2016)

Some of your problems sound very familiar to me. On my good days my swing is nice and smooth, but on bad days it can get hectic and fast, resulting in all kinds of bad hits, mostly fat and weak.


I've identified a couple of reasons why this happens. 
Many times when my swing gets too hectic, it's because I don't feel comfortable in my backswing. It can be because my balance is off, the swing itself is off, sometimes also external factors like wind or rain can contribute to that feeling. In those cases, I kind of try to get out of that uncomfortable position as fast as possible, which leads to a very rushed swing.
Another cause may be that I'm generally rushed, e.g. when I arrive late for the round and have to rush to the first tee, or when I feel like I need to rush to keep up with the group in front of us.
Last possible reason is when I'm too tense, which typically leads to shorter, more abrupt movements than a more relaxed swing.
.
Maybe the causes for your problems are different, but if not, identifying where the problem comes from typically helps finding a solution 


Now to the potential counter measures. Just a couple of weeks ago I had a lesson that was meant to be spent improving my impact, but since my swing was completely off/hectic that day, we spent the full 50 minutes trying to find my rhythm...

Here's some of the drills we used that day:

- short controlled pitch shots (e.g. 50 yards). By making a short swing and focusing on distance control (vs. hitting full shots) you should automatically make a more controlled, smooth swing. If your swing is too hectic and as a result you don't hit it as far as you're used to, you'll (subconsciously) try to make up for the distance loss by hitting harder, which can lead to a even more rushed swing. Play short, controlled shots until you feel you become smooth again. Then start going up, first to 1/2 swings then on to 3/4 swings until you make full swings again. If your swing becomes to hectic again during that process, go back to the last 'level' that worked and groove a little your tempo before try moving to longer swings again.

- become aware of the transition point in your swing. Try to feel the club as it stops (if only for a split second) at the end of your backswing. There's several drills you can do to help with this: make a couple of backswings where you take the club all the way back, then leave it there for a moment before you take the club down again (no actual downswing). You can also make full swings but actually pause the club for a short moment at the top of the backswing (or even just feel like you're pausing). Another possibility is to count during your swing (e.g. back-AND-through or one-AND-two), with the AND marking the top position, making you more aware of that part of the swing.

It took some time, but my tempo became a lot better during that session, and when I was hitting some more balls after the lesson, my swing was mostly back to normal.


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Nowt wrong with a flat backswing 

Personally Baz, I think your swing may have gotten a little narrow.

If you look at your face on video when the shaft is, roughly, parallel to the ground notice how close your hands are to your body.

That's pretty narrow IMO.

I have good width in my swing and it's one of the reasons (... Or so my Pro tells me) why I can get hit the ball a good distance.

Look where my hands are at a similar point in the

That could be one of the reasons for your loss of pace. It may also explain the shortness of your swing.
		
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Was you given any specific drills to gain the width


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## ruff-driver (Feb 1, 2016)

Worth a try, worked for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6domKo69M04


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## One Planer (Feb 1, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			Was you given any specific drills to gain the width
		
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Personally, I wasn't Baz as this is something I do naturally.

There's some useful info in this video:

[video=youtube;rtMLfG0vElA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtMLfG0vElA[/video]


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## Foxholer (Feb 1, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			Face on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smzENkbacCw

Down the line:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewNEO17bajc

Click to expand...

Those are pretty good half-swings!

Have you been practicing pitching/chipping a lot? I noticed that my swing (therefore distance) became noticeably shorter when I was concentrating much more on practicing (Pelz) pitching! Solved it to a fair degree by smashing a few drives after each pitching practice session to remind my brain of what a full swing was!

I don't believe it's a case of widening the swing; more a case of lengthening it! Use of a Swingyde might help - as part of its purpose is to get the angle of hands an forearms 'correct'. In your case, make sure that the 'U' actually touches your forearm. A smashbag might help, but you actually seem to have good acceleration through the ball for such a limited back-swing!


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## the_coach (Feb 1, 2016)

a couple of things worth looking at if you've a mind too

if you  can put the fo swing vid in slow mo notice how the very first move is  the hands/wrists setting - this in turn leads to the club head having  traveled a fair ways but the shoulders not so much which leads to the  narrowness - so little ways lack of true connection through little ways  out of sequence take back has the clubhead traveling far in a narrow arc  but the turn has not moved over much

kinda 'ideal world  scenario' would look for natural width going back (so not arms extended  away so much they disconnect from the turn) then from the top as the  lower body leads there's a natural narrower arc to the downswing which  helps keep the angles so the release happens around opposite the lead  thigh when the right arm through the ball extends to the follow through  the only time both arms are fully extended so the arc widens through the  strike
so wide, narrower, wide then the lead arm re-folds to the finish position

the  shaft, alignment stick across the upper chest is a good drill - but  what you got to look to it can become a ways easy to do that drill and  make the turn a good ways flat without really becoming aware of it -  unless it's really monitored

my take - would be a couple of  things maybes to consider - building a posture that first has you feel  the muscles in the thighs active at address bit more of a 'ready'  posture

you had in the past/have that lead foot thing going on  and looking at the fo vid here my take would be it moves forwards and  spins some because it has too simply to provide some stability and  balance through the motion - from that stance would simply move the lead  foot as you look at the vid say 3" right, - so on the range whole foot  as you make stance 3" to directly left of where it is but without  changing where the right foot is - so widening the stance but only by  moving the left foot - draw two verticals from middle of feet to  shoulders and you can see how currently the left isn't in a position  relative to the body to support a swing motion without moving.

would  also keep to the shaft/stick across the chest drill but the stick would  need to point say 2', 3' - ish the other side of the ball target line  not a good 6' or more - so there in effect is a little ways more tilt to  the turn - should allow you then to turn nearer 90% as the shoulder  goin more down across and under the chin and if coupled with no wrist  set until the hands pass the right thigh then you can still end up shaft  nicely short of parallel as arm hands club is more together with the  body turn and stop in sync together with hands away from the right ear  to maintain some natural width

to help with hands setting not  right from the get-go - would put an alignment stick couple inches off  of the right toes (parallel to the ball/target line) so in the takeback  the slightly steeper tilt to the turn coupled with quiet hands from the  get-go will enable you to have the shaft above and parallel to that  stick when the shaft first reaches horizontal - currently if you view  the dtl you'll see how the wrist/hands set a little back on themselves  from frist off but the shaft then points inside behind the legs some -  continuing with the turn when the lead arm gets horizontal it too is  nearer parallel to that stick - to accomplish this stuff the turn will  have to have some more tilt (steeper) lead shoulder rotates down under  and back

because currently the turn is cut short to less than 70%  at the top lead shoulder doen't get to opposite ball position  (pause  dtl at the top) the motion down sequence starts more from the top as  there's no time or space for it not to no time to start from ground up  to build any torque - so no real stored power there what is gets little  ways lost coming down so release happens more opposite right thigh  so  as to why the strike/length deteriorated little ways some

last  thing to consider if you look at fo vid your eyes/head are down at ball  position for a long time after the ball has gone, ideally to help the  swing motion through to have some width through the strike, once the  hands/handle pass the lead leg just past impact the head/face needs to  tilt/swivel towards target to allow the eyes to start to follow the ball  and allow the right side to come through a little ways better


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

Coach, thanks for the detailed response and I hope this doesn't come across rude in any way but being honest a few parts have pickled me, do you happen to have any drills you can link to the above post to help me grasp a better concept of how your explaining it.

Foxholer, re a great half swing .... That's kinda my point.  That is currently what feels like a full swing.

Thanks to the other links posted :thup:


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## bobmac (Feb 1, 2016)

What happens when you try and swing further back?


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

It sounds crazy bob but from there I feel at the top, I can't seem to get past that point 

The pro I'm having lessons with seems to think it's through poor turn in takeaway, what's got me worrying and maybe untrusting is the fact that 3 other people at the range he teaches are all working in " more turn ".  Now I've watched two of them while I was having a rest an both struck a really good ball, penetrating fight and so on, but I'm just stuck in the thought that he is one of them pro's stuck on the ideal swing.


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## bobmac (Feb 1, 2016)

Do you always have that basket there?


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

No bob, i only practice with a basket on the outside when I'm hitting fades or shanks.  Seems to stop me getting over the top and too outside of the ball on the downswing, which I'm guessing is related to the current faults


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## bobmac (Feb 1, 2016)

I'd certainly like to see more turn in your waist/hip area


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

On the way back or down bob?

The pro said that half a hip turn was restricting the shoulder turn which may be limiting the length of the back swing.  Sounds plausible ?


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## bobmac (Feb 1, 2016)

While you film yourself............
Make your backswing as normal then stop.
Then turn your hips more and see what that does to the length of the backswing.
There's a lot of clubhead speed being lost due to a lack of hip rotation going back


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## the_coach (Feb 1, 2016)

for sure if the hips doesn't turn sufficiently, it will limit the lower spines ability to turn

you got to be have lot of natural flexibility to have a good lower body turn with a restricted hip turn

don't feel you were being rude, no problem, wouldn't feel anyways even if I understood what pickled meant


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

Pickled - confused


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

bobmac said:



			While you film yourself............
Make your backswing as normal then stop.
Then turn your hips more and see what that does to the length of the backswing.
There's a lot of clubhead speed being lost due to a lack of hip rotation going back
		
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At the range Thursday night so I'll take a vid and see where I'm at.  Anything else?


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## bobmac (Feb 1, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			At the range Thursday night so I'll take a vid and see where I'm at.  Anything else?
		
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Try and swing smoother and keep an eye on that left hand, it looks a bit strong


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## Oddsocks (Feb 1, 2016)

will do! And thanks


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## Oddsocks (Feb 2, 2016)

Any drills for getting a better hop turn in the takeaway would be helpful, you tube isn't really delivering anything


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## Foliage Finder (Feb 2, 2016)

On a brief side note, aimed at nothing more than picking out some positives in the situation, I like your clubface position at the "top". Closed clubface is a good starting point to reducing the rate of closure and getting a more stable release and improving accuracy. Helps to avoid the flippy release.

I'm afraid re: getting more turn I can't really add anything further to what the qualified guys have already said re: relaxation, tempo and trying to hit shots subconsciously! Filming yourself is always very useful and the more you can quantify the relationship re: feel vs real, the more you can guide your improvement. Hoping this is just one of those things you look back at in the upcoming season as you're pushing for single figures back like big Ernie and wonder how on earth that happened! :thup:


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## One Planer (Feb 2, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			Any drills for getting a better hop turn in the takeaway would be helpful, you tube isn't really delivering anything
		
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Does your right knee straighten any when turning back Baz?


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## Oddsocks (Feb 2, 2016)

One Planer said:



			Does your right knee straighten any when turning back Baz?
		
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As in on the take away or on the follow through


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## One Planer (Feb 2, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			As in on the take away or on the follow through
		
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From taking the club away at address to the top of the backswing?

If your (subconsciously) retaining too much knee flex, you will effectively be restricting your turn. 

If you allow your trail knee to lose some flex (Not lock out!) Just lose a little flex yoy may increase your hip turn.

Monte, who does quite a bit on GolfWRX, explains it well here:

[video=youtube_share;ihedpsV15Us]https://youtu.be/ihedpsV15Us[/video]


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## the_coach (Feb 2, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			Any drills for getting a better hop turn in the takeaway would be helpful, you tube isn't really delivering anything
		
Click to expand...

if you can do this windmill drill has shown here, the right arm ending up behind the head (both arms out stretched) the left arm pointing at around the ball, ball/target line to get a good plane to the turn

 - the only ways to get the arms to the position seen in the top image is to turn the hips - notice where the belt buckle is pointing and the angle of belt - so the right hip has turned back behind and a little ways up 

notice where the right side pocket is in the bottom image and again that angle of the belt.

if the hips don't turn it's a ways impossible to get this upper body turn to 90Âº 
the weight pressure is contained on the inside of the right foot hasn't passed to the outside of the foot, right leg will have straightened up some (but not ramrod straight) a bunch of tension will be felt along the inside of the right thigh, to facilitate this the left knee would have worked down and back some towards the right foot (but the vertical head height will have been maintained) - not left knee pop out to the ball or ball/target line






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## sawtooth (Feb 2, 2016)

Maybe a little early wrist break as you take the club away?


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## Oddsocks (Feb 3, 2016)

Well this is interesting , be good to hear views of this is relevant to the current issues 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bRF8Kw9h9Eo


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