# Massacre at French Magazine Office - in Centre of Paris



## Foxholer (Jan 7, 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

French equivalent of Pivate Eye!


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2015)

Been watching it live for some time now, its becoming apparent that these gunmen are far more experienced than seen before, the grouping of shots in the police car are very tight from an automatic assault rifle at any distance and their movements and attacks on individuals is very organised and military like, but, the worrying part that is still emerging is, that these gunmen started to ask for people by name!


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## Fish (Jan 7, 2015)

After a police officer was wounded in a fire fight, 2 of the terrorists drove up and then got out of their car, ran up to the officer who dropped to the floor, and they murdered him with a single shot to the head, these are not your average terrorists who volunteer to fight, these are calm and calculated and very well trained.

This Islamic terrorism has just taken a huge turn in how we must look at things when they are prepared to go into Paris and as they have shouted, "avenge the Prophet Mohamed".

Cold calculated murder of 12 people all associated with the Prophet cartoons.


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## Rumpokid (Jan 7, 2015)

These people are scum..No doubt they did it in the name of the prophet again..Stay strong France, root them out and eliminate them and there associates..Sickens me, what has happened to the officer and all the others executed.


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## Skypilot (Jan 7, 2015)

Terrible.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 7, 2015)

Shocking and sadly surely only a matter of time before this returns to British soil


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## FairwayDodger (Jan 7, 2015)

It's appalling what some people will do in the name of religion.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 7, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's appalling what some people will do in the name of religion.
		
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More like doing it for their own ends and naming it as religion.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 7, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Shocking and sadly surely only a matter of time before this returns to British soil
		
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It hasn't left British soil, it's here and the threat grows all the time.


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## Fish (Jan 8, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			It hasn't left British soil, it's here and the threat grows all the time.
		
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and there are threats being dealt with on a daily basis, we just don't need to know about them all, which is best IMO.


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 8, 2015)

When I was growing up you were living under the threat of nuclear war.  Now I suspect for the rest of my life I will be living under the threat of wars based on religious intolerance and fundamentalism.  Well done humanity, hell in a hand basket.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 8, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			When I was growing up you were living under the threat of nuclear war.  Now I suspect for the rest of my life I will be living under the threat of wars based on religious intolerance and fundamentalism.  Well done *inhumanity*, hell in a hand basket.
		
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Fixed that!


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## Crazyface (Jan 8, 2015)

I wonder what would happen if this occoured in America? Would the boys from the hood be out hunting them down?

That said, it's about time this religion was BANNED from all sane countries.


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## Sweep (Jan 8, 2015)

Je Suis Charlie


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## Foxholer (Jan 8, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			I wonder what would happen if this occoured in America? Would the boys from the hood be out hunting them down?

That said, it's about time this religion was BANNED from all sane countries.
		
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It's not the religion pre se. But the extremists who use the religion for their own purposes!

Banning a particular religion is not the way to combat extremism - it's more likely to encourage it! I'd suggest that the authorities of any country that bans a particular religion - as has happened in England (and Russia)! - is more likely to be ones that are deemed not 'sane', as that action has never been a long term success!


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## Fyldewhite (Jan 8, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			That said, it's about time this religion was BANNED from all sane countries.
		
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This is the crux of the matter for me. This isn't about Islam, it's about religion. All religions are based upon blind faith in the absence of scientific evidence for the existence of any god. That is dangerous. Throughout history religion has been used as the vehicle to control and oppress populations worldwide. It has been used to justify the most heinous of crimes and what is happening in the Islamic world today is where Christianity was just a few hundred years ago.

While humanity continues to indoctrinate our children, deny science, encourage blind acceptance of stories as fact we will continue to endure the atrocities. Before condemning Islam , take a look at a christening down the local church. It's just the same thing as a Taliban school etc. Yes, two very different ends of the scale.....but the same scale.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 8, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			I wonder what would happen if this occoured in America? Would the boys from the hood be out hunting them down?

That said, it's about time this religion was BANNED from all sane countries.
		
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Brilliant, well thought out idea that would absolutely be easy to work and implement. In no way would it backfire at all by driving it underground and to be more radical.

I fully support castigating millions of people based on a very very very small minority as well. That's also a really mature and sensible way to act.


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## garyinderry (Jan 8, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			That said, it's about time this religion was BANNED from all sane countries.
		
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Liberty indeed.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 8, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			This is the crux of the matter for me. This isn't about Islam, it's about religion. All religions are based upon blind faith in the absence of scientific evidence for the existence of any god. That is dangerous. Throughout history religion has been used as the vehicle to control and oppress populations worldwide. It has been used to justify the most heinous of crimes and what is happening in the Islamic world today is where Christianity was just a few hundred years ago.

While humanity continues to indoctrinate our children, deny science, encourage blind acceptance of stories as fact we will continue to endure the atrocities. Before condemning Islam , take a look at a christening down the local church. It's just the same thing as a Taliban school etc. Yes, two very different ends of the scale.....but the same scale.
		
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I disagree.   It's not about religion at all, the major religions don't encourage this type of behaviour through their scriptures, most teach that love is the way and not the sword and the vast majority of followers are peaceful.

These acts are carried out by Man's great indifference to his fellow being, it's for for power, for greed and pure base hatred.   What happened a few hundred years ago and a thousand years ago are the past, it seems that some who portray to be followers of religion still live in the dark ages.


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## AmandaJR (Jan 8, 2015)

Some excellent responses here...

http://www.boredpanda.com/charlie-h...oting-tribute-illustrators-cartoonists-17.jpg


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## Beezerk (Jan 8, 2015)

AmandaJR said:



			Some excellent responses here...

http://www.boredpanda.com/charlie-h...oting-tribute-illustrators-cartoonists-17.jpg

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I prefer my mates...http://websta.me/p/893498609511357048_216803765

NSFW btw


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## JCW (Jan 8, 2015)

The police officer they killed was in fact a muslim , this is nothink to do with Islam , its more then that and as for freedom of the press , well you can print what you like and if it offends then you get action like this .............these guys are well known and have form , its scary , where will it strike next ?


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## SocketRocket (Jan 9, 2015)

JCW said:



			The police officer they killed was in fact a muslim , this is nothink to do with Islam , its more then that and as for freedom of the press , well you can print what you like and if it offends then you get action like this .............these guys are well known and have form , its scary , where will it strike next ?
		
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Do you think they knew he was a Muslim?   I think the fact they were chanting 'Allah Akbar' indicates it was something to do with Islam in their twisted view.


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## c1973 (Jan 9, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you think they knew he was a Muslim?   I think the fact they were chanting* 'Allah Akbar' *indicates it was something to do with Islam in their twisted view.
		
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Was he not an Admiral in Return of the Jedi? 

I'll get my coat......


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## Old Skier (Jan 9, 2015)

Sweep said:



			Je Suis Charlie
		
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Unfortunately not. Most are not that brave


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## palindromicbob (Jan 9, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			When I was growing up you were living under the threat of nuclear war.  Now I suspect for the rest of my life I will be living under the threat of wars based on religious intolerance and fundamentalism.  Well done humanity, hell in a hand basket.
		
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Ask those in the Middle East what they thought during the Crusades.  The problem is humanity hasn't really moved on.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2015)

More harrowing situations today but looks like a resolution (of sorts) now. Sadly their deaths will be glorified by their followers and more will sign up to the "cause"


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## palindromicbob (Jan 9, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			I wonder what would happen if this occoured in America? Would the boys from the hood be out hunting them down?

That said, it's about time this religion was BANNED from all sane countries.
		
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Have you ever read George Orwell's Animal Farm?


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## Foxholer (Jan 9, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			Have you ever read George Orwell's Animal Farm?
		
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Probably drove Boxer to 'the Vets'!  Or a would-be Squealer!

I relate more to Benjamin!


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## JCW (Jan 9, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you think they knew he was a Muslim?   I think the fact they were chanting 'Allah Akbar' indicates it was something to do with Islam in their twisted view.
		
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Do you know what that means , this is all down to the west and human rights and all that , we allowed hate preachers to speak and spread their bile and even gave them money through benefits and police protected them as they had a right to speak , this soft policy has lead to these hate groups , too late now as they are up and running . This is not Islam , they are muslims yes but thats it


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## Foxholer (Jan 9, 2015)

JCW said:



			Do you know what that means ...
		
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It would be better if it had been spelt correctly!


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## JCW (Jan 9, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			It would be better if it had been spelt correctly! 

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Minor detail , who cares , sorry , you do because I dont .


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## palindromicbob (Jan 9, 2015)

I fear we might see a  similar attack in Germany soon after their recent protests.


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## USER1999 (Jan 9, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			I wonder what would happen if this occoured in America? Would the boys from the hood be out hunting them down?

That said, it's about time this religion was BANNED from all sane countries.
		
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Pretty much 500 years ago Roman Catholics were banned from England. 

That lasted.


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## Foxholer (Jan 9, 2015)

JCW said:



			Minor detail , who cares , sorry , you do because I dont .
		
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It does, however, demonstrate the, quite common, 'lack of knowledge' of some/many critics!



murphthemog said:



			Pretty much 500 years ago Roman Catholics were banned from England. 

That lasted.
		
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See post #15! Which I also meant to mention re P'Bob's Animal Farm reference.


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## Fish (Jan 10, 2015)

Once again we seem to know quite a lot about these brothers, where they've been as far as training camps, who they met in jails, where they travelled to and from, visited mosques even here in the UK and probably a lot more, and yet we still cannot prevent the heinous crimes they commit! They were on no fly lists for the USA and UK but still able to move around elsewhere quite freely!

With the technology we have available to us and the pinpoint armour we can deploy, surely we should be able to wipe out these training camps, I know they move about but not that quickly that people from countries across Europe are radicalised [brainwashed] and make their way to them, so by the same token, if many of these individuals that commit these murders are/were on watch lists, we should be able to track them better and wipe out these camps along with as many of the preachers, trainers and other higher profile terrorists that would be there, or is that too easy, or god forbid, is that too unethical, personally I think its time to take the gloves off! 

We always seem to know a lot more about all these individuals but its always released _after_ the event!


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## Old Skier (Jan 10, 2015)

Fish said:



			We always seem to know a lot more about all these individuals but its always released _after_ the event!
		
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Large parts of the western world get upset when people are chucked in clink without any proof of breaking any laws.

Not an issue across the pond and in the 3rd world. Depends what kind of society you want to live in.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 10, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Large parts of the western world get upset when people are chucked in clink without any proof of breaking any laws.
		
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An attitude that may have to change sooner rather than later...


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## Fish (Jan 10, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Large parts of the western world get upset when people are chucked in clink without any proof of breaking any laws.

Not an issue across the pond and in the 3rd world. Depends what kind of society you want to live in.
		
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I'm not sure how to read or take this, are you saying that we couldn't have done any more, and monitoring them was sufficient in your opinion, whilst we all just wait for them to strike taking out innocent lives!

Also, one of the brothers was in jail, why did we put him a cell or even the same wing with other known radicals where they would engage with each other, surely every effort should be made to keep these people apart.

Secondly, it was also known he had travelled to Yemen and then onto a training camp, that for me is belonging to a terrorist organisation, which when I last looked, was illegal! If indeed everyone in that training camp are wannabe terrorists, then  flatten it with them all in for me!


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## User20205 (Jan 10, 2015)

Fish said:



			I'm not sure how to read or take this, are you saying that we couldn't have done any more, and monitoring them was sufficient in your opinion, whilst we all just wait for them to strike taking out innocent lives!

Also, one of the brothers was in jail, why did we put him a cell or even the same wing with other known radicals where they would engage with each other, surely every effort should be made to keep these people apart.

Secondly, it was also known he had travelled to Yemen and then onto a training camp, that for me is belonging to a terrorist organisation, which when I last looked, was illegal! If indeed everyone in that training camp are wannabe terrorists, then  flatten it with them all in for me!
		
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What if they're not all terrorists? What  if there are kids there? 

It's really tough, what I really dislike (apart from the obvious) is the way these incidents are high jacked for political means. The far right jump onto it as it fits their agenda, and government agencies use them as a mechanism to seek further funding and more intrusive powers. I'm all for analysing what we can learn but responding to terrorism by giving up our liberties seems a paradox to me. 

That said, British citizens who go abroad to fight or train can't be allowed back without due process, and some can't be allowed back at all.


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## Foxholer (Jan 10, 2015)

therod said:



			What if they're not all terrorists? What  if there are kids there? 

It's really tough, what I really dislike (apart from the obvious) is the way these incidents are high jacked for political means. The far right jump onto it as it fits their agenda, and government agencies use them as a mechanism to seek further funding and more intrusive powers. I'm all for analysing what we can learn but responding to terrorism by giving up our liberties seems a paradox to me. 

That said, British citizens who go abroad to fight or train can't be allowed back without due process, and some can't be allowed back at all.
		
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Absolutely!

The likes of (drone) strikes against camps in countries like Syria, where diplomatic relations have already been withdrawn, can only intensify anti-West feelings - and is arguably an act of terrorism in itself!

The same is not the case in Iraq however, where Western forces have been invited in to counter IS. There must be some reason/strategy why such action isn't taken, but I wouldn't be against it.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2015)

JCW said:



			Do you know what that means , this is all down to the west and human rights and all that , we allowed hate preachers to speak and spread their bile and even gave them money through benefits and police protected them as they had a right to speak , this soft policy has lead to these hate groups , too late now as they are up and running . This is not Islam , they are muslims yes but thats it
		
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Yes I do.    And I did say 'In their twisted view'


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## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			It would be better if it had been spelt correctly! 

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A rather unnecessary comment!


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## Fish (Jan 10, 2015)

therod said:



			What if they're not all terrorists? What  if there are kids there? 

It's really tough, what I really dislike (apart from the obvious) is the way these incidents are high jacked for political means. The far right jump onto it as it fits their agenda, and government agencies use them as a mechanism to seek further funding and more intrusive powers. I'm all for analysing what we can learn but responding to terrorism by giving up our liberties seems a paradox to me. 

That said, British citizens who go abroad to fight or train can't be allowed back without due process, and some can't be allowed back at all.
		
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If there are kids in a known terrorist training camp then their parents are terrorists IMO and they will become terrorists themselves as they will be growing up brainwashed to their ideals!  This is why they have always placed their HQ's and even missile launching areas in and around schools and in dense populated areas, I even saw it first hand in the early troubles in Northern Ireland with sand baggers, these terrorists tap into our morals knowing we won't strike at them as its unethical for us to do so, but for me, this cancer now has to be stopped or at least slowed massively down if we can and the only way to do that is to strike in the heart of their training camps and HQ's wherever they are! 

You won't do it with dialogue, you won't find their money and starve them of funds, there will always be countries selling them arms, so do we just sit back and let them grow even more, hitting soft targets around the world, or do we strike back at the heart of them and accept that any innocent loss of life is unfortunate and simply a casualty of war! 

I think we've done everything now we could within the realms of decency, but its not getting us anywhere, and if anything, terrorism is growing at a huge rate of knots so things have to change on an unprecedented scale and stop pussy-footing about.

Any British citizen who leaves the country to fight or train in the name of terrorism should not be allowed back into our country, why imprison them at my expense when they will only meet and learn more and eventually come out with a bigger grudge, the law needs changing and anyone who takes up arms or has been trained to take up arm should be excluded from our shores.

I don't care how unpopular my post is, its how I feel, its the tree-hugging liberals of this country which will cause even more fatalities offering up human rights and the like, if we are having a war on terror, then lets have it, full on!


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## Old Skier (Jan 10, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			An attitude that may have to change sooner rather than later...
		
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You may be against it if your chucked in nick without any proof but on the say so of someone else.

I would be careful in what you wish for.


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## Old Skier (Jan 10, 2015)

Fish said:



			I'm not sure how to read or take this, are you saying that we couldn't have done any more, and monitoring them was sufficient in your opinion, whilst we all just wait for them to strike taking out innocent lives!
		
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You can read it how you like and I hav'nt come out openly on either side of the fence.

I spent enough time cleaning up after these kind of people. Just remember that some on here may say that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

The only point I was trying to make that chucking people in the nick without the necessary evidence might be the wrong way to go in the long game.


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## User20205 (Jan 10, 2015)

Fish said:



			If there are kids in a known terrorist training camp then their parents are terrorists IMO and they will become terrorists themselves as they will be growing up brainwashed to their ideals!  This is why they have always placed their HQ's and even missile launching areas in and around schools and in dense populated areas, I even saw it first hand in the early troubles in Northern Ireland with sand baggers, these terrorists tap into our morals knowing we won't strike at them as its unethical for us to do so, but for me, this cancer now has to be stopped or at least slowed massively down if we can and the only way to do that is to strike in the heart of their training camps and HQ's wherever they are! 

You won't do it with dialogue, you won't find their money and starve them of funds, there will always be countries selling them arms, so do we just sit back and let them grow even more, hitting soft targets around the world, or do we strike back at the heart of them and accept that any innocent loss of life is unfortunate and simply a casualty of war! 

I think we've done everything now we could within the realms of decency, but its not getting us anywhere, and if anything, terrorism is growing at a huge rate of knots so things have to change on an unprecedented scale and stop pussy-footing about.

Any British citizen who leaves the country to fight or train in the name of terrorism should not be allowed back into our country, why imprison them at my expense when they will only meet and learn more and eventually come out with a bigger grudge, the law needs changing and anyone who takes up arms or has been trained to take up arm should be excluded from our shores.

I don't care how unpopular my post is, its how I feel, its the tree-hugging liberals of this country which will cause even more fatalities offering up human rights and the like, if we are having a war on terror, then lets have it, full on!
		
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Advocating the murder of children doesn't make you unpopular it makes you psychotic. 

I'd rather live under sharia law than have that done in my name.


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## palindromicbob (Jan 10, 2015)

I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and  earn relatively comfortable income. 

Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you.  Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

We can not stand as a country talking about freedom and democracy without practicing it.

This attack shows a major change in the way the terrorists are working.  Smaller group, softer targets and a hit and run style.  Very similar to that of the IRA in the 80's.


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## Old Skier (Jan 10, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and  earn relatively comfortable income. 


Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you.  Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

The UK has done got heavy and hard before with the IRA.  It did them no favours.
		
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Have half a like, you spoilt it right at the end


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## User20205 (Jan 10, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and  earn relatively comfortable income. 


Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you.  Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

The UK has done got heavy and hard before with the IRA.  It did them no favours.
		
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It also doesn't work, the best recruitment call for terror organisations is heavy handed first world response. Satisfying the braying call to go and bomb someone is counter productive.


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## bluewolf (Jan 10, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			I'm going to go out on a limb that anyone talking about cracking down harder is probably white and  earn relatively comfortable income. 


Very easy to ask for a crack down on sections of society that won't effect you.  Expand those crack downs to the point it would effect you and then you'd be less happy.

The UK has done got heavy and hard before with the IRA.  It did them no favours.
		
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 I'm white and relatively comfortable and I'm not advocating a crackdown. I believe that the best way to beat people who attack our Liberal values is to carry on living our lives with those Liberal values. I'm not a "tree hugger" as some would like to categorise those who lean to the left, but attempting to beat terrorism by becoming more like the terrorists seems a bit strange to me.


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## palindromicbob (Jan 10, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Have half a like, you spoilt it right at the end
		
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How?  The way that the UK government treated IRA suspects and also those living in the areas associated with these nationalists poured fuel to on the fire.  It was heavy handed and is exactly the type of thing some on here want to see happen those who might be considered Islamists. It is an example from the recent past that we need to learn from.


OK it was desperate times but the measures overstepped the boundaries occasionally.

Just for the record I am a unionist so what I'm saying isn't coming from an IRA sympathiser point of view.


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## Old Skier (Jan 10, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			How?  The way that the UK government treated IRA suspects.
		
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You never mentioned suspects in your original post you just mentioned the IRA who acted in exactly the same way as those responsible for the Paris slaughters by targeting the innocent.


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## palindromicbob (Jan 10, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			You never mentioned suspects in your original post you just mentioned the IRA who acted in exactly the same way as those responsible for the Paris slaughters by targeting the innocent.
		
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Sorry meant it in a way that they blanket labled anyone thought to be involved. 

What is really acary is the way this attack happened. This is a major change in tact. These guys planned to get away. Before the perpetrators were happy to hole up and die. Thankfully they were inept and dropped that Id card or thing may have been different.


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## Old Skier (Jan 10, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			Sorry meant it in a way that they blanket labled anyone thought to be involved.
		
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Human nature I'm afraid and it doesn't just happen when it comes to terrorists. We all tend to do a bit of human profiling.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 10, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			I would be careful in what you wish for.
		
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I am not wishing for anything... What I fear, is an up scaling of what we have witnessed this week [in France] on a more Europe wide basis... Which could lead sooner rather than later to 'actions' which could prove 'difficult' to accept....


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## Old Skier (Jan 10, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			What I fear, is an up scaling of what we have witnessed this week [in France]
		
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With the media loving every minute of it and giving wall to wall coverage it wouldn't suprise me.


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## Foxholer (Jan 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			A rather unnecessary comment!
		
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See post 35.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 10, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			With the media loving every minute of it and giving wall to wall coverage it wouldn't suprise me.
		
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Irrespective of what the media says/does these 'folk' are hell bent on ridding the world of everything that doesn't accord with their beliefs...


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## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			See post 35.
		
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AND!

Making a reply that only points out a spelling mistake adds nothing to the discussion; other than silly point scoring.


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## Foxholer (Jan 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			AND!

Making a reply that only points out a spelling mistake adds nothing to the discussion; other than silly point scoring.
		
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I'll clarify it then as I don't seem to have got the point across. No 'point scoring' involved.

It (slightly more than a simple spelling mistake) demonstrates - to me - that you have little or no appreciation of the actual culture.

Whether it's xenephobia or simply lack of opportunity - apart from the stereotypes of corner shops and 'Indian' restaurants - is beside the point.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			I'll clarify it then as I don't seem to have got the point across. No 'point scoring' involved.

It (slightly more than a simple spelling mistake) demonstrates - to me - that you have little or no appreciation of the actual culture.

Whether it's xenephobia or simply lack of opportunity - apart from the stereotypes of corner shops and 'Indian' restaurants - is beside the point.
		
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I see, because I made a spelling mistake I have 'little or no appreciation of the actual culture'    Also, where have I made any xenophobic reference to 'Stereotypes, corner shops, Indian restaurants?     You do say some odd things at times.


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## Foxholer (Jan 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I see, because I made a spelling mistake I have 'little or no appreciation of the actual culture'    Also,* where have I made any xenophobic reference to 'Stereotypes, corner shops, Indian restaurants? *    You do say some odd things at times.
		
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You have completely misread my post! Try reading it again!

Here's an article from one of your 'near neighbours' that's well worth reading imo https://ruachmin.wordpress.com/

On that note...I'm out!


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## SocketRocket (Jan 10, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			You have completely misread my post! Try reading it again!

Here's an article from one of your 'near neighbours' that's well worth reading imo https://ruachmin.wordpress.com/

On that note...I'm out!
		
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You do say some odd things at times and that post is a blinder!


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## Old Skier (Jan 11, 2015)

Don't you just love it


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## Fish (Jan 11, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Don't you just love it

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Don't even go there, so much blood on his hands.


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## c1973 (Jan 11, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Don't you just love it

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He's got to be kidding. Seriously! 

Short memory or selective memory? How many innocents died on his say so I wonder?


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## Rumpokid (Jan 11, 2015)

Fair play to France..Great unity at this time..:clap:


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## Old Skier (Jan 11, 2015)

Rumpokid said:



			Fair play to France..Great unity at this time..:clap:
		
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Shame our political class used it as a point scoring exercise.


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## JCW (Jan 12, 2015)

more to come out of woodwork


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 12, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Shame our political class used it as a point scoring exercise.
		
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I missed this, I only saw Farage using it to talk politics (who doesn't count as the political class, as he has none). What did the rest of them say/do?


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## Old Skier (Jan 12, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I missed this, I only saw Farage using it to talk politics (who doesn't count as the political class, as he has none). What did the rest of them say/do?
		
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Cameron could have marched with his own at Trafalgar Sq as IMHO he didn't need to be there at a cost which would have exceeded Â£100,000 I suspect and then Milliband decided he needed to go as will and I bet that wasn't at private expense.


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 12, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Cameron could have marched with his own at Trafalgar Sq as IMHO he didn't need to be there at a cost which would have exceeded Â£100,000 I suspect and then Milliband decided he needed to go as will and I bet that wasn't at private expense.
		
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Or he could have just been displaying unity with France and other national leaders who were all there.  And his non appearance would have looked very strange indeed. I'm no Tory believe you me, but this just seems like petty political point scoring backup up with some random costs plucked out of nowhere.  And in times like this, bearing in mind what happened in France it is not really needed IMHO.


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## Old Skier (Jan 12, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Or he could have just been displaying unity with France and other national leaders who were all there.  And his non appearance would have looked very strange indeed. I'm no Tory believe you me, but this just seems like petty political point scoring backup up with some random costs plucked out of nowhere.  And in times like this, bearing in mind what happened in France it is not really needed IMHO.
		
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Not sure we saw all world leaders there and I think I said (IMHO) he would have been better served supporting his own, not he shouldn't have gone. The figures are indeed random however a private jet of the Queens Flt, the security and staf required to get it there and back doesn't come cheap.

My main point was more on the "He's going so I'm going" ego trip of a "non world leader" and my doubts as to it being at private expense.


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Not sure we saw all world leaders there and I think I said (IMHO) he would have been better served supporting his own, not he shouldn't have gone. The figures are indeed random however a private jet of the Queens Flt, the security and staf required to get it there and back doesn't come cheap.

My main point was more on the "He's going so I'm going" ego trip of a "non world leader" and my doubts as to it being at private expense.
		
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I also think there is a huge difference between European leaders showing and sharing their support and world leaders, for me, European leaders would be expected to be in attendance,  I think your just using this to have a go and knock Cameron personally.


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## Old Skier (Jan 12, 2015)

Fish said:



			I also think there is a huge difference between European leaders showing and sharing their support and world leaders, for me, European leaders would be expected to be in attendance,  I think your just using this to have a go and knock Cameron personally.
		
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I think I'm knocking Milliband more than Cameron.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 13, 2015)

I watched the French funeral ceremony for the killed Policemen today.   We can put on a good ceremonial but the French celebrated these poor people in a suitable dignified manner IMO.    I must say La Marseillaise is a great anthem.


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## Foxholer (Jan 13, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			I think I'm knocking Milliband more than Cameron.
		
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That was what I figured too!

I think there was an extra element with Miliband though with his Jewish connection - the kosher supermarket connection.

Obama did recognise that US should have sent a 'high ranking' Official to the Unity March. Quite reasonable that he wasn't present imo.


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## Foxholer (Jan 13, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I watched the French funeral ceremony for the killed Policemen today.   We can put on a good ceremonial but the French celebrated these poor people in a suitable dignified manner IMO.    I must say La Marseillaise is a great anthem.
		
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Different cultures react in different ways. France is rather more overtly ceremonial than UK's somewhat subdued and predictable ceremony imo.

Certainly a powerful anthem, though Tchaikovsky produced a good response to subsequent imperialism! And dare I mention how easily the French capitulated in WW1 and 2?

Plenty of powerful/evocative English compositions/composers too - Williams, Holst, Elgar, Britten to name a few. It's surprising (or maybe not) the effect music can have at certain times. Imagine the sort that might have been played during the final stages and playoffs of SA Open and Tournament of Champions! 

But a digression!

Je Suis Charlie!


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## SocketRocket (Jan 13, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Different cultures react in different ways. France is rather more overtly ceremonial than UK's somewhat subdued and predictable ceremony imo.

Certainly a powerful anthem, though Tchaikovsky produced a good response to subsequent imperialism! And dare I mention how easily the French capitulated in WW1 and 2?

Plenty of powerful/evocative English compositions/composers too - Williams, Holst, Elgar, Britten to name a few. It's surprising (or maybe not) the effect music can have at certain times. Imagine the sort that might have been played during the final stages and playoffs of SA Open and Tournament of Champions! 

But a digression!

Je Suis Charlie!
		
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Elgar's Nimrod was very suitable at the cenotaph in November. 

Nous Sommes Charlie!


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