# 7/7 Memorial vandalised on anniversary!!!



## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/07/77-bombings-memorial-vandalised-on-anniversary-4789474/

Absolute DISCRACE!!! Letting these pieces of crap get away with this on our land!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

I agree. The authorities will be too scared to do anything or pursue this although chances are they are British born so don't agree with your final statement


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			British born so don't agree with your final statement
		
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And this is why this country is on its arse!!!


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/07/77-bombings-memorial-vandalised-on-anniversary-4789474/

Absolute DISCRACE!!! Letting these pieces of crap get away with this on our land!!!
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree. The authorities will be too scared to do anything or pursue this although chances are they are British born so don't agree with your final statement
		
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Agree it's poor, but it's obviously been done for maximum  political impact, by who? We don't know.

It's dangerous to jump to conclusions, and to use inflammatory language like 'our' land. I find myself in the strange situation of agreeing with homie


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

I was speaking about this incident with my mechanic earlier and we both agreed that we are happy to know we will not be in this country in 100 years.


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I was speaking about this incident with my mechanic earlier and we both agreed that we are happy to know we will not be in this country in 100 years.
		
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Why davey?? Maybe you could expand


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			Why davey?? Maybe you could expand
		
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What state do you believe this country will be in 100 years from now?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 7, 2014)

I don't see this thread going to a good place.....


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## ADB (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			What state do you believe this country will be in 100 years from now?
		
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It may be a tolerant multi-cultural and prosperous society.....with flying cars. Who can predict what will happen in that time!!


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

The short life of this thread has already shown why these extremists get away with what they want... The soft people of Britain who are too scared to go against the grain while these animals think its ok to cause harm, injury and even kill us in out own country!!!


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			What state do you believe this country will be in 100 years from now?
		
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I've not given it as much thought as you and your mechanic friend. You obviously want to get it off your chest, feel free. 

Please share with us the results of your socio economic study into our future dystopia.


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

snaphookwedge said:



			It may be a tolerant multi-cultural and prosperous society.....with flying cars. Who can predict what will happen in that time!!

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I reckon we'll have teleport machines, and maybe we'll live on the moon??


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

snaphookwedge said:



			It may be a tolerant multi-cultural and prosperous society.....with flying cars. Who can predict what will happen in that time!!

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Flying cars??? Hmmmm lets hope they have to be manned or car bombing will be a popular option. Suicide cars we can call em.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

I might have reached single figures


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Flying cars??? Hmmmm lets hope they have to be manned or car bombing will be a popular option. Suicide cars we can call em.
		
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What's dangerous are extreme views on both sides of the argument.

If you see the vandalism of the memorial as a call to arms then you've lost. 

I do recall you voiced similar views when lee rugby was murdered.

Have you considered you may be part of the problem, not the solution.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I might have reached single figures
		
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Hahaha very witty Homer!


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I might have reached single figures
		
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It's a view into the future, not a fairy tale :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

Our Land ?

Who is our ? British born ?

Do we really own the land ?


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			What's dangerous are extreme views on both sides of the argument.

If you see the vandalism of the memorial as a call to arms then you've lost. 

I do recall you voiced similar views when lee rugby was murdered.

Have you considered you may be part of the problem, not the solution.
		
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You should have a trip to Birmingham and see why my views may be a little different... Do you have areas in Dorset that are labeled as no white zones? Do you have areas where Sharia Law is enforced by the locals?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			It's a view into the future, not a fairy tale :rofl:
		
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Fair point. It's only a hundred years


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			What's dangerous are extreme views on both sides of the argument.

If you see the vandalism of the memorial as a call to arms then you've lost. 

I do recall you voiced similar views when lee rugby was murdered.

Have you considered you may be part of the problem, not the solution.
		
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Rod do you keep a journal on me? You seem to be able to pinpoint anything from my posting history?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			You should have a trip to Birmingham and see why my views may be a little different... Do you have areas in Dorset that are labeled as no white zones? Do you have areas where Sharia Law is enforced by the locals?
		
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Which areas of the city are under the control of Sharia Law? Sparkbrook, Sparkhill, Alum Rock, Handsworth and so on may have a majority Muslim population but that does not make them no go areas.


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Which areas of the city are under the control of Sharia Law? Sparkbrook, Sparkhill, Alum Rock, Handsworth and so on may have a majority Muslim population but that does not make them no go areas.
		
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You want me to post the videos? Really? Of Muslims (May be Extremists) who have self recorded themselves imposing Sharia Law on white people in the area?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			You want me to post the videos? Really? Of Muslims (May be Extremists) who have self recorded themselves imposing Sharia Law on white people in the area?
		
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Yes would be fascinated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			You want me to post the videos? Really? Of Muslims (May be Extremists) who have self recorded themselves imposing Sharia Law on white people in the area?
		
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Are these not isolated incidents as opposed to the norm - is it not dangerous to assume based on isolated incidents


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Yes would be fasinated.
		
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Fascinated? Really? They enrage me personally!!!


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			You should have a trip to Birmingham and see why my views may be a little different... Do you have areas in Dorset that are labeled as no white zones? Do you have areas where Sharia Law is enforced by the locals?
		
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No we don't. I've been to Birmingham, I wouldn't rush back. But I don't think I'd have liked it 30 years ago either.

What you're referring to is ghettoisation and it's not a new process. It's happened throughout history, and we're still here. 
 Sounds to me like you focus on the extreme, portray that as the norm and are afraid of difference.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Fascinated? Really? They enrage me personally!!!
		
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Yes, fascinated to see evidence rather than urban myths.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			No we don't. I've been to Birmingham, I wouldn't rush back. But I don't think I'd have liked it 30 years ago either.
		
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Strange coincidence, that was how I felt when I visited Wimborne.


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Rod do you keep a journal on me? You seem to be able to pinpoint anything from my posting history?
		
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Nope I just remember your thinly veiled extremist  nonsense from last year. 

What you are doing is extrapolating the behaviour of the few and applying it to the community as a whole. There's a name for that!!


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Strange coincidence, that was how I felt when I visited Wimborne.
		
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Wimborne is a strange place, you're right !!:swing:


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			Nope I just remember your thinly veiled extremist  nonsense from last year. 

What you are doing is extrapolating the behaviour of the few and applying it to the community as a whole. There's a name for that!!
		
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Ok Rod you keep walking around with your head up your backside and lets just hope that one of these extremist activities doesn't affect you or your family one day.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

I come from London. I grew up when places like Brixton and Tottenham were real no go zones for young whites (70's and early 80's) and where places like Hounslow etc were full of Indian and Bangladeshi and to be honest these places were worse than they are today. Like it or not we are multi cultural now and we're as susceptible to radical views as those back in the day were forced to suffer racism on an incredible scale. Social history will show that Brixton riots, Tottenham, Birmingham et al were the way of getting voices heard and circumstances changed. I don't condone what happened then and I don't condone this vandalism. My take is we'll undergo periods of huge social change (and rioting or terrorism within these shores) but Britain will still stand together when the chips are really down


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Ok Rod you keep walking around with your head up your backside and lets just hope that one of these extremist activities doesn't affect you or your family one day.
		
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Your views are as dangerous as theirs


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Ok Rod you keep walking around with your head up your backside and lets just hope that one of these extremist activities doesn't affect you or your family one day.
		
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Its all judgements on isolated extremists as opposed to the normal behaviour seen on a daily basis - you get isolated incidents in every religion and race where people get hurt.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Fascinated? Really? They enrage me personally!!!
		
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Then they have won; you've reacted exactly as they want and you are now proving what they say about whites or Christians is right.   As you tarnish all Muslims with the same brush you provide them with the very propaganda they crave.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.  Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its all judgements on isolated extremists as opposed to the normal behaviour seen on a daily basis - you get isolated incidents in every religion and race where people get hurt.
		
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I'd say 9/11 and 7/7 are bigger than an isolated incident plus all of the plans that have been foiled since Phil. Something has to be done about the extremist side of the religion in this country.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree. The authorities will be too scared to do anything or pursue this although chances are they are British born so don't agree with your final statement
		
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Why will the authorities be to scared to persue this crime?


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Then they have won; you've reacted exactly as they want and you are now proving what they say about whites or Christians is right.   As you tarnish all Muslims with the same brush you provide them with the very propaganda they crave.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.  Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." 



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Woah wait a minute... I don't tarnish all Muslims with the same brush and I work with Muslims who share my views. I am talking about the extremist side of the religion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I'd say 9/11 and 7/7 are bigger than an isolated incident plus all of the plans that have been foiled since Phil. Something has to be done about the extremist side of the religion in this country.
		
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Any extremist regardless of background or religion needs dealt with. 

And whilst 9/11 and 7/7 were huge and lots of lives were lost - they were still isolated as opposed to every day incidents.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 7, 2014)

Maybe this act was performed by some group like the BNP to incite exactly the sort of response you have shown davey? Until the truth comes out it is dangerous to jump to conclusions.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			Your views are as dangerous as theirs
		
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Can't see Daveyboy trotting off to Syria or Iraq on an ISIS all inclusive summer break somehow..


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Any extremist regardless of background or religion needs dealt with. 

And whilst 9/11 and 7/7 were huge and lots of lives were lost - they were still isolated as opposed to every day incidents.
		
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But do we hear about all of the failed attempts? I doubt it very much!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

There seems to be a feeling (perhaps its me) that human rights seem more important than the law. Zealots have hidden behind it for ages. Look at the length of time (not helped by their own red tape bungling) it took the government to deport that hook armed prohphet (who's name escapes me).


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Maybe this act was performed by some group like the BNP to incite exactly the sort of response you have shown davey? Until the truth comes out it is dangerous to jump to conclusions.
		
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Exactly


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			But do we hear about all of the failed attempts? I doubt it very much!!!
		
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Failed attempts from who ? And in this country yes you will hear about failed attempts because they are good "PR" showing the country is prepared and can foil any attacks.


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Can't see Daveyboy trotting off to Syria or Iraq on an ISIS all inclusive summer break somehow..
		
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No, but he's still preaching diversive nonsense 



DAVEYBOY said:



			But do we hear about all of the failed attempts? I doubt it very much!!!
		
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Now you're scared of something you don't even know exists!! Be careful of the bogeyman in the cupboard!


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## Rumpokid (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			No, but he's still preaching diversive nonsense 
Your getting mixed up with them imams,or whatever they call themselves, encouraging jihad..


Now you're scared of something you don't even know exists!! Be careful of the bogeyman in the cupboard!
		
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...I think even MI5 are also scared of what does and doesn't exist at this time.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

How many on here remember the IRA? Many lives lost on mainlaind attacks. Did the country grind to a halt in panic. If a radical group are going to strike they're strike. I don't and never will subscribe to their message but they won't win in Britain in the same way as the IRA were never going to. I won't live in fear of something that may or may not happen


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Woah wait a minute... I don't tarnish all Muslims with the same brush and I work with Muslims who share my views. I am talking about the extremist side of the religion.
		
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I'd suggest you re-read your first post then.  Referring to pieces of crap doing this on our land alongside a picture with the slogan 4 Innocent Muslims without any further clarification does tarnish the general reputation of Muslims.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

Two weeks ago we had a few days away visiting some of the places we used to visit with the kids.   One of these were Bournemouth, a place I have nice childhood memories and had some good holidays with my children.

What a shock!  I really felt like a foreigner, the beach and pier area were packed on a nice sunny Sunday but you could not hear English being spoken.   The vast numbers of people seemed to be Asian, Arabic, Romanian and eastern European who generally want to shout to each other very loudly in anything but English.   The beach was filthy with litter and I am not sure if I was amused or disgusted at the sight of groups of Muslim men in the sea having a great time while the Women all sat on the beach in their robes and head covers.

I guess it will be pointed out to me that this experience was something I should be endeared to as it reflects the wonderful multi cultural Britain that we now live in that enriches our lives.   I suppose I am also intolerant if I agree with 'Dave Boy' that that defacing of the 9-11 memorial is disgusting and the perpetrators should be dolled out similar punishments to that they would expect from Muslim law.


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			...I think even MI5 are also scared of what does and doesn't exist at this time.
		
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It's no different from the past, just a different package. I don't remember the Irish being demonised to such a degree because of a few extremists.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How many on here remember the IRA? Many lives lost on mainlaind attacks. Did the country grind to a halt in panic. If a radical group are going to strike they're strike. I don't and never will subscribe to their message but they won't win in Britain in the same way as the IRA were never going to. I won't live in fear of something that may or may not happen
		
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Digressing a little here..But i do not think the IRA  lost neither..


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'd suggest you re-read your first post then.  Referring to pieces of crap doing this on our land alongside a picture with the slogan 4 Innocent Muslims without any further clarification does tarnish the general reputation of Muslims.
		
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Muslim Extremists... Unfortunately they share the same religion, do you think good Muslims will be happy with there religion being used in this way?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Two weeks ago we had a few days away visiting some of the places we used to visit with the kids.   One of these were Bournemouth, a place I have nice childhood memories and had some good holidays with my children.

What a shock!  I really felt like a foreigner, the beach and pier area were packed on a nice sunny Sunday but you could not hear English being spoken.   The vast numbers of people seemed to be Asian, Arabic, Romanian and eastern European who generally want to shout to each other very loudly in anything but English.   The beach was filthy with litter and I am not sure if I was amused or disgusted at the sight of groups of Muslim men in the sea having a great time while the Women all sat on the beach in their robes and head covers.

I guess it will be pointed out to me that this experience was something I should be endeared to as it reflects the wonderful multi cultural Britain that we now live in that enriches our lives.   I suppose I am also intolerant if I agree with 'Dave Boy' that that defacing of the 7-11 memorial is disgusting and the perpetrators should be dolled out similar punishments to that they would expect from Muslim law.
		
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I dont think anyone has suggested that the defacing of the 7/7 isnt disgusting and hopefully the perpetrators will be caught and punished for their crimes - the punisments will be according to the laws set out by our governing body.

So now Bournemouth beach is dirty because of non english people ? As for the rest of your post - well yes you do show a lack of intolerance towards other cultures but it certainly isnt the first time


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How many on here remember the IRA? Many lives lost on mainlaind attacks. Did the country grind to a halt in panic. If a radical group are going to strike they're strike. I don't and never will subscribe to their message but they won't win in Britain in the same way as the IRA were never going to. I won't live in fear of something that may or may not happen
		
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Remember it only too well, particularly the Birmingham pub bombings and the reactions including anti-Irish/Catholic protest marches which made me feel guilty for being a Brummie.

This sort of generalisation and stereotyping never has and never will achieve anything.

I appreciate Daveyboy's comments about the majority of Muslims but there remains danger in extreme reactions to the actions of extremists.


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 7, 2014)

I'm out... I'm sure a lot more on here would agree with me but they are not prepared to express there views in fear of PC Rod giving them a telling off for being a terrorist extremist. 

Now where did I leave that nail bomb? :mmm:


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Exactly
		
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Really!


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Two weeks ago we had a few days away visiting some of the places we used to visit with the kids.   One of these were Bournemouth, a place I have nice childhood memories and had some good holidays with my children.

What a shock!  I really felt like a foreigner, the beach and pier area were packed on a nice sunny Sunday but you could not hear English being spoken.   The vast numbers of people seemed to be Asian, Arabic, Romanian and eastern European who generally want to shout to each other very loudly in anything but English.   The beach was filthy with litter and I am not sure if I was amused or disgusted at the sight of groups of Muslim men in the sea having a great time while the Women all sat on the beach in their robes and head covers.

I guess it will be pointed out to me that this experience was something I should be endeared to as it reflects the wonderful multi cultural Britain that we now live in that enriches our lives.   I suppose I am also intolerant if I agree with 'Dave Boy' that that defacing of the 7-11 memorial is disgusting and the perpetrators should be dolled out similar punishments to that they would expect from Muslim law.
		
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No one disagrees that the vandals should be punished, but how would you feel if d4s's theory was bourne  out, would you feel moved to apologise for your presumption.

Re your experience of bournemouth, you're taking nonsense. There are groups of foreign visitors that enjoy the beautiful spot that it is, and also a large number of workers from abroad that work in the service industries that are the cornerstone of the local economy.

Your impression is nothing like my daily experience of living and working in the town.
I would suggest that you are looking for examples to support your preconceived views. Bournemouth is a great example of where a multicultural society works.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I dont think anyone has suggested that the defacing of the 7/7 isnt disgusting and hopefully the perpetrators will be caught and punished for their crimes* - the punisments will be according to the laws set out by our governing body.

*So now Bournemouth beach is dirty because of non english people ? *As for the rest of your post - well yes you do show a lack of intolerance towards other cultures but it certainly isnt the first time
		
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Absolutely correct.

One can only wonder what the Spanish make of the English abroad thenâ€¦..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Really!
		
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Yes - do you not think it is dangerous to jump to conclusions


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			No one disagrees that the vandals should be punished, but how would you feel if d4s's theory was born out, would you feel moved to apologise for your presumption.

Re your experience of bournemouth, you're taking nonsense. There are groups of foreign visitors that enjoy the beautiful spot that it is, and also a large number of workers from abroad that work in the service industries that are the cornerstone of the local economy.

Your impression is nothing like my daily experience of living and working in the town.
I would suggest that you are looking for examples to support your preconceived views. Bournemouth is a great example of where a multicultural society works.
		
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For Bournemouth read Reading. We are full of Eastern Europeans. Many work in cafes, bars and even our hospital providing the life blood operations like portering. You can't tarnish everyone with the same brush.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			For Bournemouth read Reading. We are full of Eastern Europeans. Many work in cafes, bars and even our hospital providing the life blood operations like portering. You can't tarnish everyone with the same brush.
		
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..Did you vote UKIP by any chance...:lol:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			..Did you vote UKIP by any chance...:lol:
		
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Nope


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I dont think anyone has suggested that the defacing of the 7/7 isnt disgusting and hopefully the perpetrators will be caught and punished for their crimes - the punisments will be according to the laws set out by our governing body.

So now Bournemouth beach is dirty because of non english people ? As for the rest of your post - well yes you do show a lack of intolerance towards other cultures but it certainly isnt the first time
		
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Well it was dirty and they may well have been English, I didn't suggest they weren't did I?   If the Women left sitting on the beach  in their robes and head covers is reflection of 'other cultures' then Yes, I am intolerant to them.

As a side note. I see the European Court of Human Rights has upheld France in their banning Muslim full-face veil the niqab in public places.  Hopefully we will follow France's lead.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			For Bournemouth read Reading. We are full of Eastern Europeans. Many work in cafes, bars and even our hospital providing the life blood operations like portering. You can't tarnish everyone with the same brush.
		
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And your point is?   Are you suggesting only Eastern Europeans can do these jobs?


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes - do you not think it is dangerous to jump to conclusions
		
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In that case would you agree that suggesting the BNP did it is jumping to conclusions?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 7, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Can't see Daveyboy trotting off to Syria or Iraq on an ISIS all inclusive summer break somehow..
		
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Not saying daveyboy would, but there are plenty who get angry and go off and join the right wing marches, happy to incite violence enroute! (Clearly not as bad as isis by a long way, but still not a good thing)


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			In that case would you agree that suggesting the BNP did it is jumping to conclusions?
		
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He didn't say they did it, just that it was a possibility! 

And i'm not sure what bournemouth beach you went to?! I spend a lot of time down there in the summer and it's always full of White British families!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			In that case would you agree that suggesting the BNP did it is jumping to conclusions?
		
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The post said "maybe" as opposed to saying they did it- bit of a crucial difference.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

therod said:



			No one disagrees that the vandals should be punished, but how would you feel if d4s's theory was bourne  out, would you feel moved to apologise for your presumption.

Re your experience of bournemouth, you're taking nonsense. There are groups of foreign visitors that enjoy the beautiful spot that it is, and also a large number of workers from abroad that work in the service industries that are the cornerstone of the local economy.

Your impression is nothing like my daily experience of living and working in the town.
I would suggest that you are looking for examples to support your preconceived views. Bournemouth is a great example of where a multicultural society works.
		
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Of course I would apologise if that was the case but I have made my comments based that events of recent years will prove me right. We shall see!    I also assume a similar apology would be made to the BNP if my concerns prove true.

I would also suggest you are using examples to support your preconceived views.   I can see that you are a proponent of Multicultural Society and I would not criticise you for that view, I just don't share it and would expect the same tolerance to my view.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Of course I would apologise if that was the case but I have made my comments based that events of recent years will prove me right. We shall see!    I also assume a similar apology would be made to the BNP if my concerns prove true.

I would also suggest you are using examples to support your preconceived views.   I can see that you are a proponent of Multicultural Society and I would not criticise you for that view, I just don't share it and would expect the same tolerance to my view.
		
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So what would you like to see happen in regards other cultures in this country ?


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## User20205 (Jul 7, 2014)

You can believe what you want, they're  your views, you cherish them. I wouldn't like to live in such fear of anything slightly different.

To borrow your language the 'bnp' theory isn't one as such, just a viable alternative.

The point is we don't know yet, therefore we can draw no conclusions. The chances are it's a group of misguided radical Muslims. That doesn't mean that we'll all live in birmjnghamabad as davey was alluding to. All it means is they are young, idealistic idiots, who've made a clumsy, heavy handed political gesture.


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## sawtooth (Jul 7, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I'm out... I'm sure a lot more on here would agree with me but they are not prepared to express there views in fear of PC Rod giving them a telling off for being a terrorist extremist. 

Now where did I leave that nail bomb? :mmm:
		
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I share your sense of anger and frustration DB because the justice system in this country is weak. When people are found guilty beyond any doubt of heinous crimes like this then they should be hit with firm punishment.  That goes for anyone and everyone regardless of age, race, colour, creed, etc etc.

People would think twice about breaking the law if the punishment really fitted the crime.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what would you like to see happen in regards other cultures in this country ?
		
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That they integrate into the culture of the country they have decided to be their home.   It is not unreasonable for people to celebrate the culture of their origin but it is not good for these cultures to create a fractured nation.   Much cultural intolerance is also shown by immigrant communities.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			That they integrate into the culture of the country they have decided to be their home.   It is not unreasonable for people to celebrate the culture of their origin but it is not good for these cultures to create a fractured nation.   Much cultural intolerance is also shown by immigrant communities.
		
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What is our culture exactly then ? 

Im going to suggest the UK has been a multi culture country for a long time now 

Has the culture of people arriving to this country created the problem or the opposition to their culture - you appear to have an intolerance towards differing cultures yet appear to blame immigrants for the problems ?

Lots of finger pointing and blame and lack of tolerance on both sides i suggest is more the problem.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is our culture exactly then ? 

Im going to suggest the UK has been a multi culture country for a long time now 

Has the culture of people arriving to this country created the problem or the opposition to their culture - you appear to have an intolerance towards differing cultures yet appear to blame immigrants for the problems ?

Lots of finger pointing and blame and* lack of tolerance on both sides* i suggest is more the problem.
		
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So you admit there are two sides?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			So you admit there are two sides?
		
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When has it ever been suggested its one sided ?


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 8, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			What state do you believe this country will be in 100 years from now?
		
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Well I've just been to the year 3000.   Not much has changed but they all live underwater.


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## User20205 (Jul 8, 2014)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Well I've just been to the year 3000.   Not much has changed but they all live underwater.
		
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And your great, great grand daughter, is pretty fine :thup:


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## Crazyface (Jul 8, 2014)

therod said:



			What's dangerous are extreme views on both sides of the argument.

If you see the vandalism of the memorial as a call to arms then you've lost. 

I do recall you voiced similar views when lee rugby was murdered.

Have you considered you may be part of the problem, not the solution.
		
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????????????????? Jesus H Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Crazyface (Jul 8, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Maybe this act was performed by some group like the BNP to incite exactly the sort of response you have shown davey? Until the truth comes out it is dangerous to jump to conclusions.
		
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There aren't half some nutters on here


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## Birchy (Jul 8, 2014)

Best thing for world peace. 

Ban religion.

The root of nearly all problems like this imo.


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## Crazyface (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How many on here remember the IRA? Many lives lost on mainlaind attacks. Did the country grind to a halt in panic. If a radical group are going to strike they're strike. I don't and never will subscribe to their message but they won't win in Britain in the same way as the IRA were never going to. I won't live in fear of something that may or may not happen
		
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Completely different. They were fighting to unite Ireland, their country, sure I maybe being simplistic, but that was / still is the problem. The Muslims want to impose their ENTIRE CULTURE ON THIS COUNTRY / THE WORLD !!!! Hellfire I've just realised I've typed "this" instead of my.  They have won.


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## Crazyface (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Two weeks ago we had a few days away visiting some of the places we used to visit with the kids.   One of these were Bournemouth, a place I have nice childhood memories and had some good holidays with my children.

What a shock!  I really felt like a foreigner, the beach and pier area were packed on a nice sunny Sunday but you could not hear English being spoken.   The vast numbers of people seemed to be Asian, Arabic, Romanian and eastern European who generally want to shout to each other very loudly in anything but English.   The beach was filthy with litter and I am not sure if I was amused or disgusted at the sight of groups of Muslim men in the sea having a great time while the Women all sat on the beach in their robes and head covers.

I guess it will be pointed out to me that this experience was something I should be endeared to as it reflects the wonderful multi cultural Britain that we now live in that enriches our lives.   I suppose I am also intolerant if I agree with 'Dave Boy' that that defacing of the 9-11 memorial is disgusting and the perpetrators should be dolled out similar punishments to that they would expect from Muslim law.
		
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The Muslims are living in the dark ages with their oppression of women. We have come a very long way from when we used to do the same. They are 100's of years behind us, culturally. If you cannot see this you want to remove those stupuid rose tinted glasses you have on. Why aren't women coming to the aid of their fellow human beings??????


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## Crazyface (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Well it was dirty and they may well have been English, I didn't suggest they weren't did I?   If the Women left sitting on the beach  in their robes and head covers is reflection of 'other cultures' then Yes, I am intolerant to them.

As a side note. I see the European Court of Human Rights has upheld France in their banning Muslim full-face veil the niqab in public places.  Hopefully we will follow France's lead.
		
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This WILL NOT HAPPEN. We are  scared of everything


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## Crazyface (Jul 8, 2014)

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.~Edmund Burke (1729-1797). 

Just think on !!!!!


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## MattM (Jul 8, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			The Muslims are living in the dark ages with their oppression of women.
		
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So you asked these Muslim women their thoughts on oppression then?




Just posted to show there are 2 sides to every view. I'm not saying that I understand why Muslim women wear what they do, but for some it may be by choice rather than oppression. 

Until you ask you are just assuming!


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## patricks148 (Jul 8, 2014)

if a white Christian went to a Muslim country and carried on as some of the Muslim extremists have in this country, there is little doubt what would happen to them.


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## guest100718 (Jul 8, 2014)

Hmmmm I seem to have accidently ended up on dailymail.com......


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Well I've just been to the year 3000.   Not much has changed but they all live underwater.
		
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I assume my cryogentically frozen body still didn't make single figures


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## virtuocity (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I assume my cryogentically frozen body still didn't make single figures
		
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It nearly did, but CSS went down to 65.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 8, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Hmmmm I seem to have accidently ended up on dailymail.com......
		
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## Hacker Khan (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm not racist, some of my best friends are golfers...


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## User20205 (Jul 8, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			????????????????? Jesus H Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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I take it you disagree, you want to expand in your eloquent post above??


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			Completely different. They were fighting to unite Ireland, their country, sure I maybe being simplistic, but that was / still is the problem.* The Muslims want to impose their ENTIRE CULTURE ON THIS COUNTRY / THE WORLD !!!!* Hellfire I've just realised I've typed "this" instead of my.  They have won.
		
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I have some friends who are Muslims - not one of them has ever tried to impose their culture on me

Played hockey with plenty of Muslims - again none of them have ever tried to impose their culture on me 

Your statement is disgustingly generic and again as witnessed already - someone judging a whole culture on the actions of isolated extremists

I'm pretty sure Muslims , just like Christians etc just want to live their life under the choice if their own free will


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			if a white Christian went to a Muslim country and carried on as some of the Muslim extremists have in this country, there is little doubt what would happen to them.
		
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They would be subjected to the laws of the country 

As are extremists of any culture in this country


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have some friends who are Muslims - not one of them has ever tried to impose their culture on me

Played hockey with plenty of Muslims - again none of them have ever tried to impose their culture on me 

Your statement is disgustingly generic and again as witnessed already - someone judging a whole culture on the actions of isolated extremists

I'm pretty sure Muslims , just like Christians etc just want to live their life under the choice if their own free will
		
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I genuinely wish more Muslims were in parliament simply as I'd hope they'd use a bit of common sense and reject some of the ridiculous ideas and policies we follow as to not offend them.  Restaurants only serving halal and cancelling pork for etc.  I'm all for their right to choose but why is ours taken away? 

My take on the Muslim race 'taking over,'  is this.  What nationality are your Muslim friends?  As most I've spoken to consider themselves Muslim not of any particular race,  surely that's a religion who's idea it is to be all powerful?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			.  Restaurants only serving halal and cancelling pork for etc.  I'm all for their right to choose but why is ours taken away?
		
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You're talking there about a Businesses right to choose. If they think they will make more money serving Hala meat and not serving pork, then they can do as they like! Everything comes down to profit


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			You're talking there about a Businesses right to choose. If they think they will make more money serving Hala meat and not serving pork, then they can do as they like! Everything comes down to profit
		
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They do it at schools too, they were just examples there are others out there too. No Christmas lights etc, I'm not religious in the slightest but accept this was once a very Christian state. 

Also, laws. The fact that some sharia laws can be used for banking etc, if you go to a Muslim country you abide by their laws. I don't believe it racist in ANY way to expect the same.


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## chris661 (Jul 8, 2014)

I do think some posters need to tread very carefully with this thread before it all starts getting silly.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Also, laws. The fact that some sharia laws can be used for banking etc, if you go to a Muslim country you abide by their laws. I don't believe it racist in ANY way to expect the same.
		
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I can't argue with the Schools thing, as I don't know enough about the actual decisions that were made, and why they were made.

With regards the banking though, I think you might be mistaken (but will admity my knowledge isn't complete so happy to defer to a banking expert).

By my undertsanding, there are a number of Islamic banks, and they in no way break any of the laws. They just differ in that they won't charge interest, and it's in the interest of both parties to be a success. The more I learn about it, the more it seems a significantly better way to run a banking system, and I'm actually rather jealous!!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I can't argue with the Schools thing, as I don't know enough about the actual decisions that were made, and why they were made.

With regards the banking though, I think you might be mistaken (but will admity my knowledge isn't complete so happy to defer to a banking expert).

By my undertsanding, there are a number of Islamic banks, and they in no way break any of the laws. They just differ in that they won't charge interest, and it's in the interest of both parties to be a success. The more I learn about it, the more it seems a significantly better way to run a banking system, and I'm actually rather jealous!!
		
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pin not saying that there is any benefit afforded to them, simply that Britain is now taken a religion into account when setting out rules and it isn't the religion that is apparently the main one of this country. 

I have no no dislike to Muslims, I work in transport with 80% of people I seeing being Muslim (Turkish). I just don't think that a country should reform itself to better suit a repelegion. And as said, Muslim States wouldn't do the same.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			pin not saying that there is any benefit afforded to them, simply that Britain is now taken a religion into account when setting out rules and it isn't the religion that is apparently the main one of this country. 

I have no no dislike to Muslims, I work in transport with 80% of people I seeing being Muslim (Turkish). I just don't think that a country should reform itself to better suit a repelegion. And as said, Muslim States wouldn't do the same.
		
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But these rules, where Britain takes into account Islam, has no affect/effect on the Christian population. It allows Muslims to act in a certain way, but this is in no way detrimental to the remaining non-Islam population. So why shouldn't we let them act as they wish? If their way of banking was in fact detrimental, and had a negative effect on the rest of the country, then clearly we have an issue, but it isn't.

I'm yet to see any one raise anything where "Muslims" have been allowed to do things that harm the rest of the country.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I genuinely wish more Muslims were in parliament simply as I'd hope they'd use a bit of common sense and reject some of the ridiculous ideas and policies we follow as to not offend them.  Restaurants only serving halal and cancelling pork for etc.  I'm all for their right to choose but why is ours taken away? 

My take on the Muslim race 'taking over,'  is this.  What nationality are your Muslim friends?  As most I've spoken to consider themselves Muslim not of any particular race,  surely that's a religion who's idea it is to be all powerful?
		
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They are mixed nationalities - the ones born in this country call themselves British


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			They do it at schools too, they were just examples there are others out there too. No Christmas lights etc, I'm not religious in the slightest but accept this was once a very Christian state. 

Also, laws. The fact that some sharia laws can be used for banking etc, if you go to a Muslim country you abide by their laws. I don't believe it racist in ANY way to expect the same.
		
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Again aren't you just using isolated incidents as opposed to the norm.


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I can't argue with the Schools thing, as I don't know enough about the actual decisions that were made, and why they were made.

*With regards the banking though, I think you might be mistaken *(but will admity my knowledge isn't complete so happy to defer to a banking expert).

By my undertsanding, there are a number of Islamic banks, and they in no way break any of the laws. They just differ in that they won't charge interest, and it's in the interest of both parties to be a success. The more I learn about it, the more it seems a significantly better way to run a banking system, and I'm actually rather jealous!!
		
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He is. It is simply a product that is offered by one of the banks to allow people who want that product to not be charged, or receive interest on their accounts. It's no different to greedy old me who wants the product that offers the largest return I can possibly get from the banks. The bank has Muslim customers and has seen an opportunity to offer them a service. That's it. It's called a choice.


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Well it was dirty and they may well have been English, I didn't suggest they weren't did I? If the Women left sitting on the beach in their robes and head covers is reflection of 'other cultures' then Yes, I am intolerant to them.

*As a side note. I see the European Court of Human Rights has upheld France in their banning Muslim full-face veil the niqab in public places. Hopefully we will follow France's lead*.
		
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No they haven't. They have banned the use of clothing that prevents people from being identified because their face is covered. It's no different than if some white, Christian fellow decided he wanted to put on a Robocop mask. He would be asked to remove it and if he refused, he would be fined and charged with a crime.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			But these rules, where Britain takes into account Islam, has no affect/effect on the Christian population. It allows Muslims to act in a certain way, but this is in no way detrimental to the remaining non-Islam population. So why shouldn't we let them act as they wish? If their way of banking was in fact detrimental, and had a negative effect on the rest of the country, then clearly we have an issue, but it isn't.

I'm yet to see any one raise anything where "Muslims" have been allowed to do things that harm the rest of the country.
		
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Very well said - the UK hasn't reformed to suit a religion - it is flexible to allow people of all religions to abide by their beliefs - nothing is "forced" upon anyone


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again aren't you just using isolated incidents as opposed to the norm.
		
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And also using mythical, made up incidents perpuated via social media and the Internet that serve little purpose other than try to persuade us to take these quite ridiculous views.


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.~Edmund Burke (1729-1797). 

Just think on !!!!!
		
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Is it irony that in the eyes of an extremist you are the evil one? Guess they're doing something about it though so perhaps we can assume they are winning.


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## Snelly (Jul 8, 2014)

There are several arguments wrapped up in this thread.  The key elements relate to Islam and integration of immigrant populations from all points of the globe.  It is a complex subject with many facets and the answers are not going to be found on a golf forum.  

However, I do find it surprising to see such a spirited defence of multicultural Britain when the evidence of it failing in many areas is so obvious.  A cursory search on Google against the term "Sheffield Roma Problems" will give you hundreds of articles that show how the lack of integration of this immigrant group is causing major social issues.   And it is not a unique example.  There are genuine issues to be addressed in every major city that relate to the lack of integration by immigrant populations.

I am sure that multicultural Bournemouth is a fabulous place to live where you can get a fantastic ethnic meal of any kind and send your children to a school with all kinds of interesting children from all over the world.  But that isn't quite the same as feeling like an outsider in the home you have had for 50 years in Page Hall in Sheffield, where a group of Roma men stand outside your drive each day, talking, smoking, spitting and dropping litter.  

I find much of Islam to be intolerant, certainly misogynistic and certain elements to be downright barbaric - female genital mutilation for example.  If that makes me Islamaphobic then so be it. 

I would wholly support a ban on the burka too and read a very good article by Alison Pearson on this subject last week.  You can read it here - worth checking out and I agree with her views entirely.  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...g-the-burka-is-not-racist-its-a-kindness.html 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rkas-cast-a-veil-over-us-all-so-ban-them.html


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

woody69 said:



			And also using mythical, made up incidents perpuated via social media and the Internet that serve little purpose other than try to persuade us to take these quite ridiculous views.
		
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I don't have a ridiculous view, I have at no point said I have a problem with Muslims or the religion. Well no more than any other religion as I think it's all rubbish. But are you suggesting that no incidents, however isolated have occurred. 

My my opinion is that if you choose to live in a country, you abide by their rules, not ask for them to be changed. 

I dont know know all the banking procedures, but does anyone know if it's possible to attain a non 'Muslim' style account in a Muslim country for example?

obviosuly wi second and 3rd generation followers now, simply saying don't move here doesn't work and I accept that. I just don't think that religion should play any part in legal society and it does exist.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't have a ridiculous view, I have at no point said I have a problem with Muslims or the religion. Well no more than any other religion as I think it's all rubbish. But are you suggesting that no incidents, however isolated have occurred. 

My my opinion is that if you choose to live in a country, you abide by their rules, not ask for them to be changed. 

I dont know know all the banking procedures, but does anyone know if it's possible to attain a non 'Muslim' style account in a Muslim country for example?

obviosuly wi second and 3rd generation followers now, simply saying don't move here doesn't work and I accept that. I just don't think that religion should play any part in legal society and it does exist.
		
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What rules have asked to be changed ?

And yes you can have a "non Muslim" account in a Muslim country - my parents had such an account whilst living in Saudi.


And yes Snelly - Roma communities are causing trouble around not just Sheffield but other areas of the country and they will refuse to intergrate correctly and feel they are above the law.

There are areas within the Islam religion that is shocking just as there have been areas within Christianity that have been shocking 

Religious problems is certainly not limited to Islam and Christianity itself has been responsible for millions of deaths over the centuries


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## MattM (Jul 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			But that isn't quite the same as feeling like an outsider in the home you have had for 50 years in Page Hall in Sheffield, where a group of Roma men stand outside your drive each day, talking, smoking, spitting and dropping litter.
		
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That situation is replicated in many areas but with "a group of white British teenagers" rather than any particular minority. That isn't a multicultural issue.



Snelly said:



			I find much of Islam to be intolerant, certainly misogynistic and certain elements to be downright barbaric - female genital mutilation for example.
		
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And your feelings on Male genital mutilation practiced widely by other religions / societies / predominantly 'white' countries? 

(This is by no means a criticism of those other religions / societies or to down play female genital mutilation)

And - I find most Religious 'fanatics' (whatever their religion) to be intolerant and mysogynistic.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What rules have asked to be changed ?

And yes you can have a "non Muslim" account in a Muslim country - my parents had such an account whilst living in Saudi.


And yes Snelly - Roma communities are causing trouble around not just Sheffield but other areas of the country and they will refuse to intergrate correctly and feel they are above the law.

There are areas within the Islam religion that is shocking just as there have been areas within Christianity that have been shocking 

Religious problems is certainly not limited to Islam and Christianity itself has been responsible for millions of deaths over the centuries
		
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From what I can remember from previous posts, will righting now now adhere to sharia law for a start. I'm not suggesting it is causing any problem to the legal system. I'm just saying that I don't think that religion should be allowed to interfere. As much as the ups legal system may derive from a Christian background (or not as haven't looked into it too much). I simply belive that England's laws are England's laws and don't need to be changed to suit an other. 

Re the accounts in Saudi, I'll admit to be susprised, although as has been countered when I raised the subject, it makes business sense. I wonder what will happen with sponsorship of Qatar World Cup, alcohol being major sponsors. Or money men pay FIFA to stop advertising bud etc. 

I fully agree that Islam has caused no more conflict than any totter in the past. But I do genuinely believe that most religions have adapted more with modern society than Islam. at the very least it comes across as a much more sexist religion ( I base this in seing how 15-40 Muslim men deal with women in our office every day. Not just a few I've met.


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## User20205 (Jul 8, 2014)

2 points, the Sheffield example is an extreme, you can't cite extremes as the norm. I'm not denying it, but it's not a good example of multicultural uk. 
 Also you can't promote an inclusive, equitable society by banning stuff


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## Snelly (Jul 8, 2014)

MattM said:



			And your feelings on Male genital mutilation practiced widely by other religions / societies / predominantly 'white' countries?
		
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My feeling is that they are not quite the same thing, not done for the same reasons and anyone making any equation between the two needs to do more research.


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## Snelly (Jul 8, 2014)

therod said:



			2 points, the Sheffield example is an extreme, you can't cite extremes as the norm. I'm not denying it, but it's not a good example of multicultural uk. 
 Also you can't promote an inclusive, equitable society by banning stuff

Click to expand...

2 further points.  

No, the Sheffield example is not isolated.

Yes, you can promote an inclusive,equitable society by "liberating women by criminalising their clothing because you send out a strong message that garments that have nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with grotesque misogyny and the treatment of females as second-class citizens, have no place in a modern democracy. If the state bans such clothing then the hope is that young women will gradually be empowered to hold out against it, and attitudes within their community will have to change."

Quote from Alison Pearson and I totally agree.


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## chrisd (Jul 8, 2014)

I don't remember being asked by anybody if I was in favour of turning our country into a multi cultural multi racial society, was anybody else awake when that particular question was asked?


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## Ethan (Jul 8, 2014)

I heard a rumour the R&A were planning to introduce Sharia Law into the Rules of Golf. Tell you what, you won't take an illegal drop more than twice.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I don't remember being asked by anybody if I was in favour of turning our country into a multi cultural multi racial society, was anybody else awake when that particular question was asked?
		
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Do people have to ask ?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I don't remember being asked by anybody if I was in favour of turning our country into a multi cultural multi racial society, was anybody else awake when that particular question was asked?
		
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That depends, were you around hundreds of years ago? We are an island, our whole culture is based on a number of different other cultures over the years (from Romans/Vikings up to modern day immigrants). We even have fairly different cultures within our own country! (Geordie vs Cornish, pretty disimilar!)


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## Snelly (Jul 8, 2014)

How come the Koran doesn't say, "Women should go out in the sunshine without wearing the burka for at least 20 minutes each day so that their skin can make vitamin D from being exposed to sunlight. Failure to do this could lead to poorer health and increased risk of multiple sclerosis and rickets."

The answer is because it was written by the intellectually primitive and is not fit for a modern society to base it's foundations on.  The bible is similarly flawed of course but there seems to be a difference in interpretation.  Muslims view the Koran as an absolute whereas Christians tend to take the central lessons of their big book as a maxim for their lives and have dispensed with things like killing a father and daughter in law if they knock boots. 

Both books are equally unfit for purpose in my view though.  I have no favourites and am prejudiced against all religions.


I don't generally like Russians either so I guess I am a racist as well.


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## Snelly (Jul 8, 2014)

Ethan said:



			I heard a rumour the R&A were planning to introduce Sharia Law into the Rules of Golf. Tell you what, you won't take an illegal drop more than twice.
		
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 Played the wrong ball.  Loss of hole and ten lashes!


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			How come the Koran doesn't say, "Women should go out in the sunshine without wearing the burka for at least 20 minutes each day so that their skin can make vitamin D from being exposed to sunlight. Failure to do this could lead to poorer health and increased risk of multiple sclerosis and rickets."

The answer is because it was written by the intellectually primitive and is not fit for a modern society to base it's foundations on. The bible is similarly flawed of course but there seems to be a difference in interpretation. Muslims view the Koran as an absolute whereas Christians tend to take the central lessons of their big book as a maxim for their lives and have dispensed with things like killing a father and daughter in law if they knock boots. 

Both books are equally unfit for purpose in my view though. I have no favourites and am prejudiced against all religions.


*I don't generally like Russians either so I guess I am a racist as well*.
		
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What a completely and utterly random thing to say. It actually made me LOL! Not liking someone because they are Russian makes you prejudice and a xenophobe. I personally like to wait until I meet someone before judging whether I like them or not rather than making that decision based on their country of birth, but that's just me the limp-wristed liberal hippy that I am.


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## Snelly (Jul 8, 2014)

woody69 said:



			I personally like to wait until I meet someone before judging whether I like them or not rather than making that decision based on their country of birth, but that's just me the limp-wristed liberal hippy that I am.
		
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Likewise (apart from the "limp wristed hippy" bit obviously - [which by the way makes you sound like a fanatatical homophobe]) but given that I am yet to meet a Russian bloke (and have been to Moscow 3 times) with any semblance of manners then I think it is a pretty safe bet.  Some of the women seem moderately better but it is difficult to form an accurate opinion when they are all dressed like a low rent call girl to be honest. 

EYG (Enjoy your Guardian).

PS - I am also prejudiced against anyone who uses the term "LOL" who is over the age of 14.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is our culture exactly then ? 

Im going to suggest the UK has been a multi culture country for a long time now
		
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Are you suggesting although the UK is multi-cultured you don't know the culture of the majority?   Are you also suggesting the majority of people have no culture?

Regarding the time frame, it's true this country has had a number of cultures imported over it's history but they have been similar and over a vast period. These integrated well and were of manageable numbers, most issues the majority of people object to is the way politicians forced this demographic change without mandate and now the 'chickens are coming home to roost' due to the unbearable strain on services like housing, the NHS, Schools and welfare.    I fear the worst is yet to come unless we can get to grips with the huge population increase that is already out of control.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Likewise (apart from the "limp wristed hippy" bit obviously - [which by the way makes you sound like a fanatatical homophobe]) but given that I am yet to meet a Russian bloke (and have been to Moscow 3 times) with any semblance of manners then I think it is a pretty safe bet.  Some of the women seem moderately better but it is difficult to form an accurate opinion when they are all dressed like a low rent call girl to be honest. 

EYG (Enjoy your Guardian).

PS - I am also prejudiced against anyone who uses the term "LOL" who is over the age of 14.
		
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Lol ........ Oops


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do people have to ask ?
		
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Oh Yes!  If politicians wish to bring about changes of this magnitude they should state it in their manifestos so that they are voted into power with a mandate from the people to bring about such changes.   They are representatives of the people.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Lol ........ Oops 

Click to expand...


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I'm yet to see any one raise anything where "Muslims" have been allowed to do things that harm the rest of the country.
		
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You are obviously not a sheep then!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Are you suggesting although the UK is multi-cultured you don't know the culture of the majority?   Are you also suggesting the majority of people have no culture?

Regarding the time frame, it's true this country has had a number of cultures imported over it's history but they have been similar and over a vast period. These integrated well and were of manageable numbers, most issues the majority of people object to is the way politicians forced this demographic change without mandate and now the 'chickens are coming home to roost' due to the unbearable strain on services like housing, the NHS, Schools and welfare.    I fear the worst is yet to come unless we can get to grips with the huge population increase that is already out of control.
		
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what do you believe is the culture of the majority then ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Oh Yes!  If politicians wish to bring about changes of this magnitude they should state it in their manifestos so that they are voted into power with a mandate from the people to bring about such changes.   They are representatives of the people.
		
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Which changes are these ? 

I can certainly feel the under current of contempt towards differing cultures.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			what do you believe is the culture of the majority then ?
		
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So you know we are multi cultural, so I guess you can differentiate one culture from another, otherwise you would not be aware of the fact.

Please stop being obtuse regarding what defines the culture of the majority of British people.  Can you define Muslim culture, Indian culture, Somalian culture, Romanian culture and so forth.  If so why not British.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			So you know we are multi cultural, so I guess you can differentiate one culture from another, otherwise you would not be aware of the fact.

Please stop being obtuse regarding what defines the culture of the majority of British people.  Can you define Muslim culture, Indian culture, Somalian culture, Romanian culture and so forth.  If so why not British.
		
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Oh I know what I believe to be British culture 

I also know it's very diverse across multiple races and religions and it's very welcoming to other cultures to work alongside each towers and even intermix


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which changes are these ? 

I can certainly feel the under current of contempt towards differing cultures.
		
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I have explained what these changes are: Mass immigration, population explosion and stressed public services.  I have no contempt for other cultures, I just don't want them diluting a British culture that has been a beacon to the rest of the world.   My contempt is for the Liberal Ruling Classes that have engineered this situation without due consideration to the wishes of the people or the long term consequences they bring.


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## Jensen (Jul 8, 2014)

What I find disgusting is that a white British Airways female employee was told to remove the crucifix around her neck as it might be offensive !!!! Offensive to whom.......?
Britain historically IS a Christian/Catholic country and as such a crucifix represents that. If I can't see it offending ANY non-believer, then please for my simple mind tell me who it is offensive towards.......?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I have explained what these changes are: Mass immigration, population explosion and stressed public services.  I have no contempt for other cultures, I just don't want them diluting a British culture that has been a beacon to the rest of the world.   My contempt is for the Liberal Ruling Classes that have engineered this situation without due consideration to the wishes of the people or the long term consequences they bring.
		
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Diluting our culture ?!? It's expanding our culture right now by adding in so many different ethnic groups 

Or should these ethnic groups who come to our great welcoming country abandon the culture and follow ours ?


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Diluting our culture ?!? It's expanding our culture right now by adding in so many different ethnic groups 

Or should these ethnic groups who come to our great welcoming country abandon the culture and follow ours ?
		
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So they should hold onto the cultures of the countries they have decided to leave and our own culture should be a melting pot of all of them.  That sounds about right then!


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			What I find disgusting is that a white British Airways female employee was told to remove the crucifix around her neck as it might be offensive !!!! Offensive to whom.......?
Britain historically IS a Christian/Catholic country and as such a crucifix represents that. If I can't see it offending ANY non-believer, then please for my simple mind tell me who it is offensive towards.......?
		
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oh dear, did you read this on a social network by chance?!

she has since won her case, and the laws allow her to do this. David Cameron (the PM) even commented that he liked that she could wear it!! 

Oh and it happened in 2006.

so you're saying you dislike BA, not the government!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			So they should hold onto the cultures of the countries they have decided to leave and our own culture should be a melting pot of all of them.  That sounds about right then!
		
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So a culture should only be followed when in that country ? Can a culture not be part of a persons own personality ? 

Isn't the countries culture made up of the personalities of the people in that country ? 

We have British Hindus and Muslims and other races and religions - which culture are they allowed to follow ? The British culture or their religious culture ? 

When Brits go abroad do stop following our culture ? Not from what I have witnessed. 

We live in a free world where people are able to make their own choices about the way they live their live ( as long as it is within the laws set down ) - I'm happy for it to stay that way.


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## Jensen (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			oh dear, did you read this on a social network by chance?!

she has since won her case, and the laws allow her to do this. David Cameron (the PM) even commented that he liked that she could wear it!! 

Oh and it happened in 2006.

so you're saying you dislike BA, not the government!
		
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Nearest I get to social media is posting on here........

So it was 2006, but it still happend.

Please then tell me who would find it offensive......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			Nearest I get to social media is posting on here........

So it was 2006, but it still happend.

Please then tell me who would find it offensive......
		
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Remember the crucifix was a big symbol during the crusades when millions upon millions where murdered by Christians


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## Jensen (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Remember the crucifix was a big symbol during the crusades when millions upon millions where murdered by Christians
		
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OK so long,long after the crusades who would find it offensive today.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			OK so long,long after the crusades who would find it offensive today.....
		
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Possibly the people from those lands that were effected by the crusades.


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## Jensen (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Possibly the people from those lands that were effected by the crusades.
		
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I'm sorry but I can't see today's generation being offended by something that took part many, many, many generations ago. I think you're being very diplomatic.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Best thing for world peace. 

Ban religion.

The root of nearly all problems like this imo.
		
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Bit more than religion Birchy.If you banned that,there will always be someone with a beef..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			I'm sorry but I can't see today's generation being offended by something that took part many, many, many generations ago. I think you're being very diplomatic.
		
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You just asked who could be offended by it and I gave you an example 

You could also add in people that have been abused by catholic priests


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So a culture should only be followed when in that country ? Can a culture not be part of a persons own personality ? 

Isn't the countries culture made up of the personalities of the people in that country ? 

We have British Hindus and Muslims and other races and religions - which culture are they allowed to follow ? The British culture or their religious culture ? 

When Brits go abroad do stop following our culture ? Not from what I have witnessed. 

We live in a free world where people are able to make their own choices about the way they live their live ( as long as it is within the laws set down ) - I'm happy for it to stay that way.
		
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I get it that you think that way but it's naive. This is one of the few countries in this world that has that level of tolerance, much of the world do not think or operate that way, the word is anything but Free!  Have you ever been to countries like Japan, China, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Saudi, Iran where racism is profound, these people and many more around the globe dont tolerate other cultures the way we do.

You keep missing my point.   It's not the change, it's the rate of change that has been too fast and it has turned many people against each other.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			Nearest I get to social media is posting on here........

So it was 2006, but it still happend.

Please then tell me who would find it offensive......
		
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It was a decision by BA about a corporate image! Not about offending people!


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## User20205 (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			OK so long,long after the crusades who would find it offensive today.....
		
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No one, it's a ridiculous interpretation of a religion neutral policy. 

You can't turn back the clock, we are multicultural.

Unchecked immigration is a different matter, but you can't forcibly repatriate.

That's not the issue anyway. The issue is the demonisation of a community based on the actions of a minority.

Our issue is we keep adding to a Muslim sense of being under siege, which in turn makes them more insular. If you ban the hijab you give them another cause, another sense of injustice.

They may seemingly not display our relatively liberal attitudes, but the desire for change has to come from within.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I get it that you think that way but it's naive. This is one of the few countries in this world that has that level of tolerance, much of the world do not think or operate that way, the word is anything but Free!  Have you ever been to countries like Japan, China, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Saudi, Iran where racism is profound, these people and many more around the globe dont tolerate other cultures the way we do.

You keep missing my point.   It's not the change, it's the rate of change that has been too fast and it has turned many people against each other.
		
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I know racism is profound in other countries - have witnessed it in many countries whilst working around the world 

I'm extremely glad our country isn't like that ( or to the extreme of other countries ) 

Are Brits still able to follow their own culture ? Believe the answer is yes - now we just have other people following other ways of life within our country - they aren't telling us to follow their way

We aren't being forced to change our culture - we can still live our lives as we have done before. 

Our culture is still around and going strong - it isn't getting swamped or over taken


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil why do you ask so many pedantic  questions with 4/5/6 etc, word sentences?...
Oops i am doing it now....You really do need to get out more, or start reading the Mail,it is real you know..


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## Jensen (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			It was a decision by BA about a corporate image! Not about offending people!
		
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Ah I see so in BA's eyes Muslim headwear is in keeping with corporate image......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Liverpoolphil why do you ask so many pedantic  questions with 4/5/6 etc, word sentences?...
Oops i am doing it now....You really do need to get out more, or start reading the Mail,it is real you know..

Click to expand...


Can we leave the cheap digs out of the thread - thank you


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Not saying daveyboy would, but there are plenty who get angry and go off and join the right wing marches, happy to incite violence enroute! (Clearly not as bad as isis by a long way, but still not a good thing)
		
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He has an opinion, and he is concerned about the direction the country is going,..Why bring the right wing extremists into the equation?..Totally different issue as to what this thread is about.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can we leave the cheap digs out of the thread - thank you
		
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...You do make me laugh, glass houses etc...


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			He has an opinion, and he is concerned about the direction the country is going,..Why bring the right wing extremists into the equation?..Totally different issue as to what this thread is about.
		
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The two are intrisically linked, in that it's anger that one of them is percieved to be occuring that is causing the other


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Remember the crucifix was a big symbol during the crusades when millions upon millions where murdered by Christians
		
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Just to be pedantic, was it not the cross that was the symbol of the crusades? 

I often wonder if those Muslims offended by the cross/crucifix (assuming there are, as I don't know any) would be offended by a nice bit of salmon if the Christians still used the old fish ( ichtus? ) sign during the crusades.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			Ah I see so in BA's eyes Muslim headwear is in keeping with corporate image......
		
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Islamic headwear is required as part of the religion in their eyes.

They believed that wearing a crucifix wasn't.

Surelybthe fact the law upheld her rights and said she could wear it destroys your argument that Britain is being weak and worried about offending people?

oh and if BA (a private company) think they will make more money by stopping people showing crucifixes, then that is their call, until it's deemed illegal


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## Jensen (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Surelybthe fact the law upheld her rights and said she could wear it destroys your argument that Britain is being weak and worried about offending people?
		
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Totally the opposite as you have just justified, as she had to take matters to court in the FIRST place !!!!!!


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Islamic headwear is required as part of the religion in their eyes.

They believed that wearing a crucifix wasn't.

Surelybthe fact the law upheld her rights and said she could wear it destroys your argument that Britain is being weak and worried about offending people?

oh and if BA (a private company) think they will make more money by stopping people showing crucifixes, then that is their call, until it's deemed illegal
		
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Oh dear....Not looking good


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm not prejudice. I hate everyone equally :rofl::thup:

I do find it unacceptable in this day and age though that Christians are prevented from wearing their cross, an integral part of their belief for fear of upsetting other religions and yet burkhas etc are perfectly acceptable. Similarly lets not fly the St Georges cross or celebrate Christmas. We have people in our place that are allowed time out per day for prayers, observe things like Ramadam etc and yet trees, decorations and carols are banned.

With religion, and extremist militant behaviour as per the OP its always going to be contentious. If local authorities, employers and others were to treat each equally and respect all beliefs, I would hope, that more and more people would become more tolerant. We will never get rid of extremists and the hope has to be that the faith involved also see that behaviour as abhorrent.


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## Jensen (Jul 8, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Oh dear....Not looking good
		
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Friday soon to become how good old Sunday used to be......


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm not prejudice. I hate everyone equally :rofl::thup:

I do find it unacceptable in this day and age though that Christians are prevented from wearing their cross, an integral part of their belief for fear of upsetting other religions and yet burkhas etc are perfectly acceptable. Similarly lets not fly the St Georges cross or celebrate Christmas. We have people in our place that are allowed time out per day for prayers, observe things like Ramadam etc and yet trees, decorations and carols are banned.

With religion, and extremist militant behaviour as per the OP its always going to be contentious. If local authorities, employers and others were to treat each equally and respect all beliefs, I would hope, that more and more people would become more tolerant. We will never get rid of extremists and the hope has to be that the faith involved also see that behaviour as abhorrent.
		
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Good points,but alas,the local authorities,government(past and present).,left wing yoghurt munchers,and the "it's my right" brigade,are all to blame,for the concerns that a lot of folk have today.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

Jensen said:



			Friday soon to become how good old Sunday used to be......
		
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Hmmmm..Hope not..But it does get to much air time.


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm not prejudice. I hate everyone equally :rofl::thup:

I do find it unacceptable in this day and age though that Christians are prevented from wearing their cross, an integral part of their belief for fear of upsetting other religions and yet burkhas etc are perfectly acceptable. Similarly lets not fly the St Georges cross or celebrate Christmas. We have people in our place that are allowed time out per day for prayers, observe things like Ramadam etc and yet trees, decorations and carols are banned.
		
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Where exactly do you get this from? Where has there ever been an instance of a Christian person being banned from wearing their crucifix for fear of upsetting other religions in the UK?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Again it's people talking about isolated incidents as if they are the norm 

Can't remember ever being told to not fly a St George's flag or celebrate Christmas 

I even did both in Iraq and Afghan with no issues surrounded by all those evil Muslims


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Likewise (apart from the "limp wristed hippy" bit obviously - [which by the way makes you sound like a fanatatical homophobe]) but given that I am yet to meet a Russian bloke (and have been to Moscow 3 times) with any semblance of manners then I think it is a pretty safe bet.  Some of the women seem moderately better but it is difficult to form an accurate opinion when they are all dressed like a low rent call girl to be honest. 

EYG (Enjoy your Guardian).

PS - I am also prejudiced against anyone who uses the term "LOL" who is over the age of 14.
		
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Well you know what they say, meet someone and think they are an arse, he's probably an arse. If everyone you meet is an arse then you're the arse.

I apologise for my modern lexicon. I understand for some of a different generation they may not appreciate it.


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again it's people talking about isolated incidents as if they are the norm 

Can't remember ever being told to not fly a St George's flag or celebrate Christmas 

I even did both in Iraq and Afghan with no issues surrounded by all those evil Muslims
		
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Indeed. Don't let a good old myth/isolated incident get in the way of facts though eh.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Where exactly do you get this from? Where has there ever been an instance of a Christian person being banned from wearing their crucifix for fear of upsetting other religions in the UK?
		
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Tescos made the national press last year for banning a till operator for wearing one


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Tescos made the national press last year for banning a till operator for wearing one
		
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I have no recollection of that story and can't find any reference to it with a quick search. Got any links?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Tescos made the national press last year for banning a till operator for wearing one
		
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Do you have any links to that story ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Here's a similar example. http://www.westbriton.co.uk/Nurse-banned-hospital-wearing-crucifix/story-11423496-detail/story.html I was sure it was Tesco or another famous UK name. I know BA have had similar issues. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2010/1/19/crucifix-employee-goes-to-court I may have got the Tesco bit wrong it appears. Apologies


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Here's a similar example. http://www.westbriton.co.uk/Nurse-banned-hospital-wearing-crucifix/story-11423496-detail/story.html I was sure it was Tesco or another famous UK name. I know BA have had similar issues. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2010/1/19/crucifix-employee-goes-to-court I may have got the Tesco bit wrong it appears. Apologies
		
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But that's banning all necklaces though is it not ? As opposed to banning crucifixes specifically ?

And the BA case was overturned and the lady was allowed to wear it


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But that's banning all necklaces though is it not ? As opposed to banning crucifixes specifically ?

And the BA case was overturned and the lady was allowed to wear it
		
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But surely the point is they should never have had to go to court to wear what their belief says.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But surely the point is they should never have had to go to court to wear what their belief says.
		
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That will be down to company policy 

The BA case was overturned as BA relaxed their policy to allow people to wear religious symbols - isolated incident as opposed to the norm 

The NHS was purely down to not wearing necklaces in fear of patients grabbing them putting their staff in danger - so not specifically stopping someone wearing a crucifix on religious beliefs etc


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 8, 2014)

Well done Philip.. 17 pages of you defending Muslim Extremists :clap:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Well done Philip.. 17 pages of you defending Muslim Extremists :clap:
		
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How dare you accuse me of such a thing !!! I have lost friends and work mates to such people so you can show me where exactly I have defend any Muslim Extremist. 

You clearly don't have any brain matter instead your skull.


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How dare you accuse me of such a thing !!! I have lost friends and work mates to such people so you can show me where exactly I have defend any Muslim Extremist. 

You clearly don't have any brain matter instead your skull.
		
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Shhhhhhhhhh :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That will be down to company policy 

The BA case was overturned as BA relaxed their policy to allow people to wear religious symbols - isolated incident as opposed to the norm 

The NHS was purely down to not wearing necklaces in fear of patients grabbing them putting their staff in danger - so not specifically stopping someone wearing a crucifix on religious beliefs etc
		
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Company policy allows head dresses etc though. Surely you can't have one and not the other and be fair and equitable


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Company policy allows head dresses etc though. Surely you can't have one and not the other and be fair and equitable
		
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Isolated incidents homer - company policy that was changed. 

Some companies don't allow head dress and burkas to be worn


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Shhhhhhhhhh :thup:
		
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I'm guessing that means you can't find where I have defend any extremists 

Pathetic behaviour from a grown adult.


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm guessing that means you can't find where I have defend any extremists 

Pathetic behaviour from a grown adult.
		
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Ohhh we have Phillip rattled :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Isolated incidents homer - company policy that was changed. 

Some companies don't allow head dress and burkas to be worn
		
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Governement policy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ht-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Ohhh we have Phillip rattled :rofl:
		
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Yes because for someone to come on a forum a suggest they excuse extremist behaviour shows how low some people will go to get people to react - I lost friends to extremists whilst away working - I saw people with their legs or arms gone , work colleagues gone and you decide to post that I excuse the behaviour of the people that caused such pain ! Think that shows the sort of person you are.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Governement policy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ht-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

Click to expand...


Page not found ?


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 8, 2014)

Can we cut out the jibes or this thread will be closed

Thankyou


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Page not found ?
		
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Opens on my PC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ht-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

When has anyone ever suggested they don't want extremists removed ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Opens on my PC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ht-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

Click to expand...


Keeps coming up with a 404 error ?


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Opens on my PC http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ht-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

Click to expand...

Opens on mine too.Interesting article that says all you need to know.


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

The fact that Phil has witnessed such acts of violence, but still shows tolerance and understanding says more about him as a person than those who come onto Internet forums spouting hateful nonsense. Not once has he suggested that extreme views should be tolerated or accepted and neither has he said that those individuals caught and proven to commit these acts should not be punished. He, like many others in the thread have stated that isolated incidents don't mean as a society we are tolerant to these people.


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## woody69 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Governement policy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...ht-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

Click to expand...




Rumpokid said:



			Opens on mine too.Interesting article that says all you need to know.
		
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I don't think it really says anything at all tbh. Putting aside the fact it's over 2 years old all it states is the Government don't believe wearing the crucifix is a requirement of the faith, and it's true it isn't. It's therefore up to the individual companies to decide their own dress policies.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

woody69 said:



			I don't think it really says anything at all tbh. Putting aside the fact it's over 2 years old all it states is the Government don't believe wearing the crucifix is a requirement of the faith, and it's true it isn't. It's therefore up to the individual companies to decide their own dress policies.
		
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Surely though the argument has to be how can a government dictate what is and isn't permissible by faith and why doesn't it apply the same rules to each and every religion practiced in the UK.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely though the argument has to be how can a government dictate what is and isn't permissible by faith and why doesn't it apply the same rules to each and every religion practiced in the UK.
		
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What rules does it apply to religion though ? Very generic statement 

The government it appears are allowing companies to dictate their own policy


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

woody69 said:



			I don't think it really says anything at all tbh. Putting aside the fact it's over 2 years old all it states is the Government* don't believe wearing the crucifix is a requirement of the faith*, and it's true it isn't. It's therefore up to the individual companies to decide their own dress policies.
		
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Correct.

And if we're being honest if wearing it is all that matters, it can be worn below a shirt or blouse, thus no one can be offended (although why they would be is beyond me) and you still get to wear it. Problem solved.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

And therein issues begin. How many companies these days would be prepared to ban the burkha for fear of discrimination and a damaging court case. They tend to settle for a policy of minimal inconvenience. I know several hospital trusts drawing up dress policies and have been for a number of years and struggling to find suitable and acceptable grounds for all parties. Where do lines get drawn


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Surely though the argument has to be how can a government dictate what is and isn't permissible by faith and why doesn't it apply the same rules to each and every religion practiced in the UK.
		
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I fail to see where the Government has stated what is permissible. What has been stated is that employers are not discriminating against employees on religious grounds by prohibiting the visible wearing of a crucifix.

Unlike the wearing of the burkha which to certain Muslims is a basic tenet of their faith the wearing of the crucifix is an expression of faith, not a requirement.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What rules does it apply to religion though ? Very generic statement 

The government it appears are allowing companies to dictate their own policy
		
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The policy must be fair and equally applied though.  If the Christian cross is not appropriate or seen as necessary in the work place then the Muslim head and face covers must also fall into the same category as well as Turbans and bracelets worn by Sikhs  for example.  In Hospitals I would suggest all of them, including ties, create a risk for transfer of infection and should be banned.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I fail to see where the Government has stated what is permissible. What has been stated is that employers are not discriminating against employees on religious grounds by prohibiting the visible wearing of a crucifix.

Unlike the wearing of the burkha which to certain Muslims is a basic tenet of their faith the wearing of the crucifix is an expression of faith, not a requirement.
		
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The wearing of face covers by Muslim Women is not part of their faith as dictated by the Koran.  It is more a modern fad perpetuated by Saudi that has been adopted by islamic militants to perpetuate their degrading of Women.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			The wearing of face covers by Muslim Women is not part of their faith as dictated by the Koran.  It is more a modern fad perpetuated by Saudi that has been adopted by islamic militants to perpetuate their degrading of Women.
		
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In the same way that there are different denominations of Christianity so there are different strands of Islam with their own requirements for the practising of that faith.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			In the same way that there are different denominations of Christianity so there are different strands of Islam with their own requirements for the practising of that faith.
		
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Thats right. Female genital mutilation being one of them.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Thats right. Female genital mutilation being one of them.
		
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Your point is what precisely? 

It is certainly not the majority of Muslims that maintain that barbaric practice and nor is it the majority of Christians who practise polygamy.


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## Snelly (Jul 8, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Well you know what they say, meet someone and think they are an arse, he's probably an arse. If everyone you meet is an arse then you're the arse.

I apologise for my modern lexicon. I understand for some of a different generation they may not appreciate it.
		
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Brilliantly erudite as ever Woody but I have met thousands of fantastic people in my life, just that none of them are Russian.  Maybe with your extensive experience of travel and trading in Russia you have?  I am yet to have that pleasure, having only been in Moscow for 3 weeks in the past 3 years. 

In other news, one of my dogs is called Woody.  Small world.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Your point is what precisely? 

It is certainly not the majority of Muslims that maintain that barbaric practice and nor is it the majority of Christians who practise polygamy.
		
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Polygamy being another Muslim trait. My point is that unlike Christianly Islam has a trait of degrading Women which is primitive in this age.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Polygamy being another Muslim trait. My point is that unlike Christianly Islam has a trait of degrading Women which is primitive in this age.
		
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http://www.alternet.org/story/15446...tians_and_the_gop_to_control_and_malign_women


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## woody69 (Jul 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Polygamy being another Muslim trait. My point is that unlike Christianly Islam has a trait of degrading Women which is primitive in this age.
		
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Pretty much all religions degrade women, because all religions were written and conceived by men (with the exception of shoe shopping).


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## MattM (Jul 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Polygamy being another Muslim trait. My point is that unlike Christianly Islam has a trait of degrading Women which is primitive in this age.
		
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Is that a serious observation?? Degrading women is not limited to specific religions, it's cultural, sociological and global.

Even the demographic of this site has recent and ongoing history of degrading women (Men only golf clubs / men only bars etc)

Or are you saying that the degradation of women is ok as long as it is not the 'primitive' (assuming you mean female genital mutilation) kind practiced by some *cultures *(it's not a religion thing)


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## woody69 (Jul 9, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Brilliantly erudite as ever Woody but I have met thousands of fantastic people in my life, just that none of them are Russian. Maybe with your extensive experience of travel and trading in Russia you have? I am yet to have that pleasure, having only been in Moscow for 3 weeks in the past 3 years. 

In other news, one of my dogs is called Woody. Small world.
		
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I've only ever met two Russians and they were both strippers, and although I was quite drunk at the time I thought they were awfully nice. Based on my experiences though I'm not sure I can say I love all Russians just because the two I met were taking their clothes off at the time, so instead I think I'll just wait until I meet the individuals themselves instead of proclaiming to love all Russians. Maybe you could apply the same logic and instead of saying you don't generally like Russians, based on the fact the few you have met are (in your humble opinion) bellends, then maybe, just maybe there are some out there that can put up with your witty banter and love of life and you can then scream from the roof tops, "I was wrong, I was wrong! It isn't Russians that I dislike, it's just rude ignorant nobbers!"

Thanks for sharing about your dog. Mine is called Barney.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

woody69 said:



			I've only ever met two Russians and they were both strippers, and although I was quite drunk at the time I thought they were awfully nice. Based on my experiences though I'm not sure I can say I love all Russians just because the two I met were taking their clothes off at the time, so instead I think I'll just wait until I meet the individuals themselves instead of proclaiming to love all Russians. Maybe you could apply the same logic and instead of saying you don't generally like Russians, based on the fact the few you have met are (in your humble opinion) bellends, then maybe, just maybe there are some out there that can put up with your witty banter and love of life and you can then scream from the roof tops, "I was wrong, I was wrong! It isn't Russians that I dislike, it's just rude ignorant nobbers!"

Thanks for sharing about your dog. Mine is called Barney.
		
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Bit of an immature comment to what the poster (snelly), has said.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Furthermore, to this thread,related,but off topic slightly,how the hell has it come to be that there are now in place,so many security checks at airports,that it is going to make flying an intolerable,unpleasant and downright stressful experience to what it used to be.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.alternet.org/story/15446...tians_and_the_gop_to_control_and_malign_women

Click to expand...

That link only goes to show your ignorance of Christianity.  The quotes are all taken from the Old Testament, there is a clue in the name Christianity! 'Christ' Christ reformed those things and gave a new set of guidelines for people to live by, none of the mentioned were amongst them. 

The Koran promotes war and punishment on non believers, it also promotes punishments like cutting off hands and stoning to death for such crimes as theft and adultery.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Furthermore, to this thread,related,but off topic slightly,how the hell has it come to be that there are now in place,so many security checks at airports,that it is going to make flying an intolerable,unpleasant and downright stressful experience to what it used to be.
		
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Well it certainly isn't due to the YMCA!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			That link only goes to show your ignorance of Christianity.  The quotes are all taken from the Old Testament, there is a clue in the name Christianity! 'Christ' Christ reformed those things and gave a new set of guidelines for people to live by, none of the mentioned were amongst them. 

The Koran promotes war and punishment on non believers, it also promotes punishments like cutting off hands and stoning to death for such crimes as theft and adultery.
		
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Are you suggesting that the Old Testament has no relevance to Christianity. 

That would be an interesting theological standpoint.


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Are you suggesting that the Old Testament has no relevance to Christianity. 

That would be an interesting theological standpoint.
		
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Indeed. I'd be extremely interested in reading about that (assuming that is indeed the posters view).


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Are you suggesting that the Old Testament has no relevance to Christianity. 

That would be an interesting theological standpoint.
		
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It is a prelude to Christianity.  The laws of the old testament are not Christian, how can they be as 'Christ' had not arrived on the scene when it was written.  These old laws were ones to govern the Jews in their Pre-Christian time, the New Testament is a book based on the teachings of 'Christ' who repealed these laws and replaced them with ones based on forgiveness and peace.  It is a pacifist religion and any wars or violence is not carried out in it's name.   Unlike Islam.


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

But Gods laws were contained in the Old Testament and Jesus's teachings were based on these laws,no?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			It is a prelude to Christianity.  The laws of the old testament are not Christian, how can they be as 'Christ' had not arrived on the scene when it was written.  These old laws were ones to govern the Jews in their Pre-Christian time, the New Testament is a book based on the teachings of 'Christ' who repealed these laws and replaced them with ones based on forgiveness and peace.  It is a pacifist religion and any wars or violence is not carried out in it's name.   Unlike Islam.
		
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c1973 makes the point very eloquently.

As for a pacifist religion, there is no such thing, different strands of belief, such as the Quakers, may take such a stance but, for instance, the Church of England generally reckoned that God was on our side in both the World Wars.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			c1973 makes the point very eloquently.

As for a pacifist religion, there is no such thing, different strands of belief, such as the Quakers, may take such a stance but, for instance, the Church of England generally reckoned that God was on our side in both the World Wars.
		
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The religion does not promote this, those sentiments are made by Men to support their positions and power.  Christianity is what 'Christ' taught his followers, not peoples interpretations to support their own agendas.   Islam is different in this respect as its precepts teaches its followers that war and violence is an acceptable method to convert non believers.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

We are wayyyyy offf track now folks..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Furthermore, to this thread,related,but off topic slightly,how the hell has it come to be that there are now in place,so many security checks at airports,that it is going to make flying an intolerable,unpleasant and downright stressful experience to what it used to be.
		
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Maybe just maybe - just ensure that no suspect item gets onto the plant allowing it to be either hi jacked or blown up killing people. 

Or would you rather no security checks were in place ?


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2014)

c1973 said:



			But Gods laws were contained in the Old Testament and Jesus's teachings were based on these laws,no?
		
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No.  Gods words were given to govern people up to the point he sent his Son to repeal them and replace them with new ones.  Thats the difference between Christianity and the belief of jews and Muslims.  They all follow the teachings of the Old Testament, only Christians follow the teachings of Christ, Muslims follow the further teachings of Mohammed .


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			We are wayyyyy offf track now folks..
		
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Not really.  The whole issue is related to peoples religion.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe just maybe - just ensure that no suspect item gets onto the plant allowing it to be either hi jacked or blown up killing people. 

Or would you rather no security checks were in place ?
		
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I know WHY it has come to this, but my point was How it has come to this..Please don't answer a question with a question neither..I can feel it coming..
And yes, flying,and moreover,airports etc, used to be more fun and less stressful.Please tell me i am wrong?, so my answer is, i would like to live in country/world, or whatever, where there were less security checks when goin on me jollies..End of.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			Not really.  The whole issue is related to peoples religion.
		
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Well talkin about old testament stuff, god words etc blah, is a lot different to grafitti on a memorial...Just sayin.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			I know WHY it has come to this, but my point was How it has come to this..Please don't answer a question with a question neither..I can feel it coming..
And yes, flying,and moreover,airports etc, used to be more fun and less stressful.Please tell me i am wrong?, so my answer is, i would like to live in country/world, or whatever, where there were less security checks when goin on me jollies..End of.
		
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The differences of mankind will mean you will never live in a world like that - there has always be danger and conflicts in the world putting people in danger and flying has always been an easy target 

And it got to this because people believe they are causing mayhem for the right reasons and people want to world to be what they want it to be 

The day it changes is the day we all learn to be tolerant of each other and respect each other's  views and people don't resort to violence to get their way - the day bullies are defeated forever.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The differences of mankind will mean you will never live in a world like that - there has always be danger and conflicts in the world putting people in danger and flying has always been an easy target 

And it got to this because people believe they are causing mayhem for the right reasons and people want to world to be what they want it to be 

The day it changes is the day we all learn to be tolerant of each other and respect each other's  views and people don't resort to violence to get their way - the day bullies are defeated forever.
		
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I used to live in a world 'like that', and we had differences then..Mankind,childkind whatever,, but we did not live in a world where coconut airways flight 69 to Happy Del Sol was gonna be blown out of the sky,thus having me to get naked, and endure an intrusive cavity search going through security, in case i was hiding a can of lager.....Hmm, i am off track now......You do have a strange way of thinking Phil


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			I know WHY it has come to this, but my point was How it has come to this..Please don't answer a question with a question neither..I can feel it coming..
And yes, flying,and moreover,airports etc, used to be more fun and less stressful.Please tell me i am wrong?, so my answer is, i would like to live in country/world, or whatever, where there were less security checks when goin on me jollies..End of.
		
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Well I have been using airports and flying since 1972 and cannot remember these halcyon days to which you refer. 

Airports are generally dumps and flying is boring but over the years I have always endured the queues for security in the knowledge that the checks were for the general good.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Well I have been using airports and flying since 1972 and cannot remember these halcyon days to which you refer. 

Airports are generally dumps and flying is boring but over the years I have always endured the queues for security in the knowledge that the checks were for the general good.
		
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Sorry,must live in a different time dimension to you,but i remember the 70's well also.Air travel was great, as were airports.Maybe you flew for a living,or flew in a work related way, (i have done this also), or maybe you were unhappy in the 70's..People could smoke on planes  by the way,rightly or wrongly, so it is obvious things were more relaxed then..


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## Foxholer (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The differences of mankind will mean you will never live in a world like that - there has always be danger and conflicts in the world putting people in danger and flying has always been an easy target 

And it got to this because people believe they are causing mayhem for the right reasons and people want to world to be what they want it to be 

The day it changes is the day we all learn to be tolerant of each other and respect each other's  views and people don't resort to violence to get their way - the day bullies are defeated forever.
		
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LiverpoolPhil-osopher! I agree though!

Can someone point out where this thread ceased to be about the 7/7 Memorial vandalism? I happened to be pretty close to a couple of the incidents (working in Whitechapel) - and the hospital where many of the casualties went to - which was not far from a rather large mosque, where there was a great deal of angst, about several issues! Friday Prayers the following day were closely followed/patrolled!  

But that part of London demonstrates how multi-cultural/receptive Britain (or at least London) has been for centuries!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			I used to live in a world 'like that', and we had differences then..Mankind,childkind whatever,, but we did not live in a world where coconut airways flight 69 to Happy Del Sol was gonna be blown out of the sky,thus having me to get naked, and endure an intrusive cavity search going through security, in case i was hiding a can of lager.....Hmm, i am off track now......You do have a strange way of thinking Phil
		
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The first hi jacking of a plane took place in the 1930's 

The security has got more intense due to the fact that people that are looking to hi jack or cause trouble are getting cleverer in their methods 

Not sure exactly what is strange about my thinking


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The first hi jacking of a plane took place in the 1930's 

The security has got more intense due to the fact that people that are looking to hi jack or cause trouble are getting cleverer in their methods 

Not sure exactly what is strange about my thinking
		
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Pretty obvious really..Read your fanmail.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The first hi jacking of a plane took place in the 1930's 

The security has got more intense due to the fact that people that are looking to hi jack or cause trouble are getting cleverer in their methods 

Not sure exactly what is strange about my thinking
		
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1930's...What a great comparison ..How i love your wikipedia brain,or pub quiz fountain of knowledge..via many hours of googling.
What plane was it?
What was the reason?
What airline?
Why was it hijacked?
Any idea?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Pretty obvious really..Read your fanmail.
		
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Fanmail ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			1930's...What a great comparison ..How i love your wikipedia brain,or pub quiz fountain of knowledge..via many hours of googling.
What plane was it?
What was the reason?
What airline?
Why was it hijacked?
Any idea?
		
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Just highlighting to you that flying has always been a target for terrorists - that massively increased over the 60's and 70's 

Airport security checked massively heightened in the 70's with the introduction of body scanners etc 

So for you to suggest you didn't live in a world where planes were under threat of a terrorist attack is extremely false.


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			No.  Gods words were given to govern people up to the point he sent his Son to repeal them and replace them with new ones.  Thats the difference between Christianity and the belief of jews and Muslims.  They all follow the teachings of the Old Testament, only Christians follow the teachings of Christ, Muslims follow the further teachings of Mohammed .
		
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View attachment 11438


Are these the laws his son was sent to repeal and replace?

What did he replace, let's say, thou shalt not kill with?


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just highlighting to you that flying has always been a target for terrorists - that massively increased over the 60's and 70's 

Airport security checked massively heightened in the 70's with the introduction of body scanners etc 

So for you to suggest you didn't live in a world where planes were under threat of a terrorist attack is extremely false.
		
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You really do talk some rubbish..Did you fly out of Israel or middle east by any chance?
I used UK airports years ago, and to try and manipulate security back then to now is warped.
Anyhow, as i have said before,change the medication or seek advice.Deluded


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

It makes not an iota of difference about airport security these days. If a terrorist wants to commit an atrocity as 7/7 showed or the sarin attack in Tokyo as another example, they will find a way and a means. There was the indiscriminate bombing campaigns of the IRA both in Northern Ireland and the mainland in the 70's and 80's. Of course it isn't just here. How many random shootings in the US? Only takes one itchy finger on a trigger. 

The point is, it could happen anywhere anytime. Life is too short and there's no rehearsal so my take since being rather too close to popping off than I liked a few years back, is not to live in fear, take every allotted 24 hour of destiny, and in the words of Madness (Death of a rude boy) 
You must stand up for what is right
 Stay on the side of conscious
 Make sure you live in light
 Don't go down, don't fool around
 Hold your ground
 Don't be proud
 Make sure that love is in your life


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			You really do talk some rubbish..Did you fly out of Israel or middle east by any chance?
I used UK airports years ago, and to try and manipulate security back then to now is warped.
Anyhow, as i have said before,change the medication or seek advice.Deluded
		
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I was certainly having to pass through scanners at UK airports by 1980.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			You really do talk some rubbish..Did you fly out of Israel or middle east by any chance?
I used UK airports years ago, and to try and manipulate security back then to now is warped.
Anyhow, as i have said before,change the medication or seek advice.Deluded
		
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Can you not respond to people's post with personal insults. No one is throwing any insults at you. 

In 1973 Airport security around the world increased with the additions of body scanners first used in the US in 1972 

Now you can keep calling facts rubbish as much as you want but the facts are there for all to read if they so wish.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you not respond to people's post with personal insults. No one is throwing any insults at you. 

In 1973 Airport security around the world increased with the additions of body scanners first used in the US in 1972 

Now you can keep calling facts rubbish as much as you want but the facts are there for all to read if they so wish.
		
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As someone posted elsewhere.... you don't have to keep replying 

I always thought these type of threads (especially in OOB) were about opinions and not everything can be tied down in cold hard facts


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As someone posted elsewhere.... you don't have to keep replying 

I always thought these type of threads (especially in OOB) were about opinions and not everything can be tied down in cold hard facts
		
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Replying is slightly different to throwing insults about at people Homer.

Of course cold hard facts can be used in discussions ?!


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you not respond to people's post with personal insults. No one is throwing any insults at you. 

In 1973 Airport security around the world increased with the additions of body scanners first used in the US in 1972 

Now you can keep calling facts rubbish as much as you want but the facts are there for all to read if they so wish.
		
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Sooo my final answer is..

1.It was merely advce..Not an insult..The 2 differ..FACT.

2.Couldn't give  gnats chuff about US scanners circa1972, is here and now, and UK air travel in the past i was referring to.FACT...You twist things to suit your view..

3.Facts are ok when it comes to physics and maths etc..FACT..Not people's opinions...

Finally,match is crap,so i am off to cut my toenails,then varnish em,powder my bits and have a nice cup of cocoa...NOT FACT..
I will leave you to air your FACTS and odd views of how things are to other forumers...Goodnight.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Saw this from a friend on Facebook. Might sum it up rather well


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## SocketRocket (Jul 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



View attachment 11438


Are these the laws his son was sent to repeal and replace?

What did he replace, let's say, thou shalt not kill with?
		
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That attachment does not seem to open on my computer.


I dont want to get into a very deep theological debate on this as it as  starting to detract from the thread.   Here is a link to a site that explains what I said in some detail.  If you are genuinely interested in debating this further then please feel free to PM me.

http://www.christianspiritualism.org/articles/lawrepeal.htm


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## woody69 (Jul 10, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Bit of an immature comment to what the poster (snelly), has said.
		
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Er, why and what now? Snelly made a statement that he generally dislikes Russians because the few he have met have in his opinion been rude/ignorant whatever. I merely countered his view with my own, in that the couple I have met have in fact been very nice. So based on that perhaps it would be better to make a judgement on whether you like someone or not, should be made on the indivdual rather than sticking an entire nation of people in the "dislike" pot because the few he has met aren't very nice.


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## woody69 (Jul 10, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			You really do talk some rubbish..Did you fly out of Israel or middle east by any chance?
I used UK airports years ago, and to try and manipulate security back then to now is warped.
Anyhow, as i have said before,change the medication or seek advice.Deluded
		
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Bit of an immature comment to what the poster (LiverpoolPhil), has said. *chortle chortle*


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## Snelly (Jul 10, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Er, why and what now? Snelly made a statement that he generally dislikes Russians because the few he have met have in his opinion been rude/ignorant whatever. I merely countered his view with my own, in that the couple I have met have in fact been very nice. So based on that perhaps it would be better to make a judgement on whether you like someone or not, should be made on the indivdual rather than sticking an entire nation of people in the "dislike" pot because the few he has met aren't very nice.
		
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You have latched onto a relatively flippant comment at the end of my post and banged on about it yet ignored the primary point I was making about the burka and interpretation of the Koran.   That is fair enough and up to you but slightly out of kilter for the main debate.

But to get back to what you have focused on, I have met hundreds of Russian men and spent weeks in Russia.  99% were surly, unfriendly, charmless and devoid of manners. This is the only country in the world that I have been to (and that is a lot) where this has been the case and it has shaped my view accordingly.  This isn't quite the same as drooling over a couple of poor souls who were probably promised waitressing jobs by traffickers and ended up under massive intimidation in tiny dresses, entertaining drunk punters with their bodies. 

Anyway, thanks for the advice on how I should be making judgements in my life but actually I am fine in terms of how I make up my mind about the people I meet.


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## woody69 (Jul 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			You have latched onto a relatively flippant comment at the end of my post and banged on about it yet ignored the primary point I was making about the burka and interpretation of the Koran. That is fair enough and up to you but slightly out of kilter for the main debate.

But to get back to what you have focused on, I have met hundreds of Russian men and spent weeks in Russia. 99% were surly, unfriendly, charmless and devoid of manners. This is the only country in the world that I have been to (and that is a lot) where this has been the case and it has shaped my view accordingly. This isn't quite the same as drooling over a couple of poor souls who were probably promised waitressing jobs by traffickers and ended up under massive intimidation in tiny dresses, entertaining drunk punters with their bodies. 

Anyway, thanks for the advice on how I should be making judgements in my life but actually I am fine in terms of how I make up my mind about the people I meet.
		
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I "latched" on to it, because I found such a sweeping "flippant" statement (as you put it) hilarious (remember the actual LOL) and at the same time a little dispiriting. However, I am pleased you have actually met 1% of Russians that don't fit into your surly, unfriendly, charmless and devoid of manners bracket and were perhaps OK blokes. I guess that actually proves you can actually get on with a Russian and it's not Russians you hate, but merely people who are surly, unfriendly, charmless and devoid of manners.


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## Foxholer (Jul 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			That link only goes to show your ignorance of Christianity.  The quotes are all taken from the Old Testament, there is a clue in the name Christianity! 'Christ' Christ reformed those things and gave a new set of guidelines for people to live by, none of the mentioned were amongst them. 

The Koran promotes war and punishment on non believers, it also promotes punishments like cutting off hands and stoning to death for such crimes as theft and adultery.
		
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An excellent point about the 'Old' religion and the 'New' Christian one. A shame so called Christians don't keep to the principles though!

The Old Testament certainly has instructions to act violently and put worshippers/preachers of other Gods 'to the sword'!

The Koran promotes repentance and forgiveness - with no punishment - in much the same way as The New Testament does - and The Old also did.

The Crusaders were hardly acting in a Christian fashion! 

It's people and Governments who promote and make war, not Religions!


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It makes not an iota of difference about airport security these days. If a terrorist wants to commit an atrocity as 7/7 showed or the sarin attack in Tokyo as another example, they will find a way and a means. There was the indiscriminate bombing campaigns of the IRA both in Northern Ireland and the mainland in the 70's and 80's. Of course it isn't just here. How many random shootings in the US? *Only takes one itchy finger on a trigger*. 

The point is, it could happen anywhere anytime. Life is too short and there's no rehearsal so my take since being rather too close to popping off than I liked a few years back, is not to live in fear, take every allotted 24 hour of destiny, and in the words of Madness (Death of a rude boy) 
You must stand up for what is right
 Stay on the side of conscious
 Make sure you live in light
 Don't go down, don't fool around
 Hold your ground
 Don't be proud
 Make sure that love is in your life
		
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_'One more widow, one less white nio _chance I'm typing that word.......'

Ripped off from Dancing Queen fact fans.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 10, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			It's people and Governments who promote and make war, not Religions!
		
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Its a small minority of extremists on all sides who do things in the name of their religion that are the problem.

Does wanting these people shot make me an extremist?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			You have latched onto a relatively flippant comment at the end of my post and banged on about it yet ignored the primary point I was making about the burka and interpretation of the Koran.   That is fair enough and up to you but slightly out of kilter for the main debate.

But to get back to what you have focused on, I have met hundreds of Russian men and spent weeks in Russia.  99% were surly, unfriendly, charmless and devoid of manners. This is the only country in the world that I have been to (and that is a lot) where this has been the case and it has shaped my view accordingly.  This isn't quite the same as drooling over a couple of poor souls who were probably promised waitressing jobs by traffickers and ended up under massive intimidation in tiny dresses, entertaining drunk punters with their bodies. 

Anyway, thanks for the advice on how I should be making judgements in my life but actually I am fine in terms of how I make up my mind about the people I meet.
		
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Most of the Russian men I have met and worked with compare exactly with your thinking 

The ladies on the other hand appear totally different - very friendly if at times blunt


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Its a small minority of extremists on all sides who do things in the name of their religion that are the problem.

Does wanting these people shot make me an extremist?
		
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It doesn't make you an extremist.


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 10, 2014)

This thread gained some momentum :rofl:

Update: The graffiti has now been successfully removed :thup:


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