# Dando and Homer coaching today



## anotherdouble (Sep 29, 2017)

How did it all go today lads. Haven't heard any reports of men in white coats taking any golf coaches away for their sanity


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## chrisd (Sep 29, 2017)

They're still looking for the balls they hit!


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## anotherdouble (Sep 29, 2017)

chrisd said:



			They're still looking for the balls they hit!
		
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:rofl::clap:


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## chrisd (Sep 29, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			:rofl::clap:
		
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Don't tell Dando I said that - he's a big bugger and I don't run so well these days &#129296;


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## anotherdouble (Sep 29, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Don't tell Dando I said that - he's a big bugger and I don't run so well these days &#129296;
		
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You be fine mate as long as you are only 40-60 yards away. He is crap at that distance


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 29, 2017)

Two and a half hours stuck on the M25 and watching the Fulham game but got loads on video to go through. Worked with a guy called Paul Foston who was a great guy and primarily back swing related, shortening it, changing the path and trying to get a better wrist position. I understand the concept and the changes but trying to break 30+ years of bad habits in 90 minutes and take everything in was hard, so it's going to form the basis of my winter work, with a return to Paul's swing studio at some point for an update.


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## chrisd (Sep 29, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			You be fine mate as long as you are only 40-60 yards away. He is crap at that distance
		
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I'd hide in the woods but he spends so much time there he knows it like the back of his hand


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## Dasit (Sep 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Two and a half hours stuck on the M25 and watching the Fulham game but got loads on video to go through. Worked with a guy called Paul Foston who was a great guy and primarily back swing related, shortening it, changing the path and trying to get a better wrist position. I understand the concept and the changes but trying to break 30+ years of bad habits in 90 minutes and take everything in was hard, so it's going to form the basis of my winter work, with a return to Paul's swing studio at some point for an update.
		
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Was that part of the golf monthly segment to go back to see Paul?


I had 2 hours with him for golf monthly in March and he knocked 3 shots of my handicap in the next month of playing. Not been back to see him though.


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## Dando (Sep 29, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I'd hide in the woods but he spends so much time there he knows it like the back of his hand
		
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You can both sod off!!!


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## chrisd (Sep 29, 2017)

Dando said:



			You can both sod off!!!
		
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Didn't think you'd be back yet!


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## Dando (Sep 29, 2017)

Well Paul was a joy to work with and thankfully had the patience of a saint!

after watching my pathetic attempts at chipping and pitching Paul suggested trying to keep my right arm/wrist locked to avoid flipping the club at impact, gripping down the club, hands forward, keeping the speed through impact using my hands and rotating my chest.

despite it feeling completely alien the improvement was great although I still had the odd chunk or thin.

we tried different clubs, lies and distances and after a while I got used to the technique and my confidence grew hitting from 10-75 yards.

im so glad I got this opportunity and thanks to GM for picking me


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 29, 2017)

Dasit said:



			Was that part of the golf monthly segment to go back to see Paul?


I had 2 hours with him for golf monthly in March and he knocked 3 shots of my handicap in the next month of playing. Not been back to see him though.
		
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No but we had a chat after the lesson finished while the guys were setting the camera's up and came up with a plan to keep him updated and we're going to book an extended lesson to follow up. Great guy, very friendly and patient and easy to see why he's a top 25 coach


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## Dasit (Sep 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No but we had a chat after the lesson finished while the guys were setting the camera's up and came up with a plan to keep him updated and we're going to book an extended lesson to follow up. Great guy, very friendly and patient and easy to see why he's a top 25 coach
		
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Yep agree, great guy. Good luck to you, in very capable hands if you stick with Paul.


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## Dando (Sep 29, 2017)

He took his life in his hands at one point standing about 50 yards out asking me to hit so he could catch the ball


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## Fish (Sep 29, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I'd hide in the woods but he spends so much time there he knows it like the back of his hand
		
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So much so the squirrels have him on their Christmas card list &#128540;


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## Dando (Sep 29, 2017)

Fish said:



			So much so the squirrels have him on their Christmas card list &#63004;
		
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Don't you bloody start as well


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## chrisd (Sep 29, 2017)

Dando said:



			Don't you bloody start as well
		
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At least you don't live far away from Paul Foston, you could pop there for a lesson any time


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## Fish (Sep 29, 2017)

Dando said:



			Don't you bloody start as well
		
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I hear your pp's call you Chuck [Norris] as you always go 'Missing in Action' &#128540;


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## anotherdouble (Sep 29, 2017)

Dando said:



			Well Paul was a joy to work with and thankfully had the patience of a saint!

after watching my pathetic attempts at chipping and pitching Paul suggested trying to keep my right arm/wrist locked to avoid flipping the club at impact, gripping down the club, hands forward, keeping the speed through impact using my hands and rotating my chest.

despite it feeling completely alien the improvement was great although I still had the odd chunk or thin.

we tried different clubs, lies and distances and after a while I got used to the technique and my confidence grew hitting from 10-75 yards.

im so glad I got this opportunity and thanks to GM for picking me
		
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That mate sounds really positive. You now have the winter to work on it.


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## Dando (Sep 29, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			That mate sounds really positive. You now have the winter to work on it.
		
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Im actually looking forward to practicing my short game now. Think it'll be a mix of range time (mats aren't great but it all helps) and maybe early mornings in local park


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## garyinderry (Sep 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Two and a half hours stuck on the M25 and watching the Fulham game but got loads on video to go through. Worked with a guy called Paul Foston who was a great guy and primarily back swing related, shortening it, changing the path and trying to get a better wrist position. I understand the concept and the changes but trying to break 30+ years of bad habits in 90 minutes and take everything in was hard, so it's going to form the basis of my winter work, with a return to Paul's swing studio at some point for an update.
		
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Did you record the whole lesson for your channel.  That would be class. 

The faults in your swing were really obvious. I told you a good pro would begin to sort you in minutes.  Really glad you had this lesson. The over the top swing was killing you and was never going to be consistent. 

If you hammer this over the winter you will have a great chance to move forward next year towards your goal.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 29, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Did you record the whole lesson for your channel.  That would be class. 

The faults in your swing were really obvious. I told you a good pro would begin to sort you in minutes.  Really glad you had this lesson. The over the top swing was killing you and was never going to be consistent. 

If you hammer this over the winter you will have a great chance to move forward next year towards your goal.
		
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Most of it, but hard as we had a heavy rain shower and I've not seen all the footage. Found it hard (impossible) to shorten as far as he wanted and get the wrist position and then make a good turn (to be honest probably too much info crammed into one 90 minute) segment but I've some stuff to look at and things to work on. I'll look at what I have on camera and put something on the channel at some point in the next few days


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## garyinderry (Sep 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Most of it, but hard as we had a heavy rain shower and I've not seen all the footage. Found it hard (impossible) to shorten as far as he wanted and get the wrist position and then make a good turn (to be honest probably too much info crammed into one 90 minute) segment but I've some stuff to look at and things to work on. I'll look at what I have on camera and put something on the channel at some point in the next few days
		
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Look forward to seeing the footage and also the subsequent changes you make.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 29, 2017)

Dando said:



			Im actually looking forward to practicing my short game now. Think it'll be a mix of range time (mats aren't great but it all helps) and maybe early mornings in local park
		
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Even off the mats it gets you hitting a ball and you can groove the swing. Distance does not really matter. It's all about being confident in technique


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## shortgame (Sep 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Most of it, but hard as we had a heavy rain shower and I've not seen all the footage. Found it hard (impossible) to shorten as far as he wanted and get the wrist position and then make a good turn (to be honest probably too much info crammed into one 90 minute) segment but I've some stuff to look at and things to work on. I'll look at what I have on camera and put something on the channel at some point in the next few days
		
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Sounds like some good things to work on and look forward to seeing more about it

Are you going to stick with him as your coach now through the winter?

Hope he gets you where you want to be, good luck &#128077;&#128077;


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## duncan mackie (Sep 30, 2017)

I was Paul's main pro-am partner when he used to play the assistant pro series at Foxhills....nearly 40 years ago!

How time flies...


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 30, 2017)

shortgame said:



			Sounds like some good things to work on and look forward to seeing more about it

Are you going to stick with him as your coach now through the winter?

Hope he gets you where you want to be, good luck &#128077;&#128077;
		
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Its not feasible to use him as a permanent coach as it's too far to travel. There's a couple of guys at Windlesham Golf Club I was looking at (one who has glowing testimonies and one that does a lot of NLP stuff which is something I wanted to look at for a while). Still got some lessons paid for with the guy I'm using so I'll get these done and decide


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## shortgame (Sep 30, 2017)

Good luck &#128077;&#128077;


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## Smiffy (Oct 1, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Trying to break 30+ years of bad habits in 90 minutes and take everything in was hard.
		
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It's been a lot longer than 90 minutes though hasn't it Homer?????


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## USER1999 (Oct 1, 2017)

Dando said:



			Im actually looking forward to practicing my short game now. Think it'll be a mix of range time (mats aren't great but it all helps) and maybe early mornings in local park
		
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Does that mean i could get to putt out a bit quicker on the 17th at Swinley? For a short par 3 you sure did a lot of walking!


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## Dasit (Oct 1, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			It's been a lot longer than 90 minutes though hasn't it Homer????? 

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I reckon he have a better chance trying left handed

Start with clean slate


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2017)

I've just watched part one of homers lesson, blimey, if he listened to what the coach was telling him to do he'd be off single figures in no time.

Can't wait for part deux


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 4, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I've just watched part one of homers lesson, blimey, if he listened to what the coach was telling him to do he'd be off single figures in no time.

Can't wait for part deux
		
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Trust me it wasn't for lack of trying. That over swing has been finely honed after many years and is just stuck there for the moment. Plenty in part one that was good and strike was good. Some good stuff in part two and loads of good stuff for me to take away and work on over the winter


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## Qwerty (Oct 4, 2017)

I enjoyed the video although i got a little frustrated watching the prolonged follow through as I kept thinking the video had paused and found myself pressing play to restart it


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## bluewolf (Oct 4, 2017)

At least there's only 2 bad shots to iron out. The big left and big right miss.


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## garyinderry (Oct 4, 2017)

Finally a pro that will tell you what to do. 

You know my feelings on that guy you posted the live lessons with before.  He let you away with murder and either wasn't interested or couldn't be bothered. 

This guy probably couldn't believe his luck when he seen your swing.  Its actually such an easy lesson to give.  You were doing it so wrong that it was easy for him to say, lets just stop doing that altogether, lets do it completely differently. 

Looking forward to seeing part 2. I told you a matter of weeks ago a good pro would completely change your ball striking in absolutely no time. 

All the parts will start to fall into place for you.  You need to keep an eye on your take away. When you take it outside on the way back you end up with the cupped wrist at the top. 
As the pro said at the end of the video, you need to go really slowly on the backswing. Especially now when you are trying to groove this new swing. The quicker you do it the more you will do the old swing and over swing. 

I gave this info to you on a plate last march.  Keep working on it and with your improved short game you cannot fail to progress. Before with the old swing you had to shots. A pull or a slice depending on the face at impact. Huge timing needed. 

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...golfing-sin/page5&highlight=garyinderry+homer


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## Stuart_C (Oct 4, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Trust me it wasn't for lack of trying. That over swing has been finely honed after many years and is just stuck there for the moment. Plenty in part one that was good and strike was good. Some good stuff in part two and loads of good stuff for me to take away and work on over the winter
		
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I'm confused though Homer, you'd spent all that time travelling etc for a free session with a top 25 coach only to ignore what Coach Foston was asking you to do. 50% back and 50% through was what he asked, you bladdered every shot:rofl:

I'd understand if you made your backswing even shorter  but you never.
You hit some crackers though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm confused though Homer, you'd spent all that time travelling etc for a free session with a top 25 coach only to ignore what Coach Foston was asking you to do. 50% back and 50% through was what he asked, you bladdered every shot:rofl:

I'd understand if you made your backswing even shorter  but you never.
You hit some crackers though.
		
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You miss my point. I WAS trying to do what he asked but if you've ever seen how long my swing is/was even with an iron, you'll realise that for me, finding a point that was short as he asked, compared to where short felt for me, was very hard. It felt to me as though those swings were going to shoulder height. That's part and parcel of the stuff he's given me to work on going forward

The other problem is we've never met, had a limited period of time, under a degree of pressure with everyone watching, for him to get his ideas over, me to understand them and try and make changes. There were a lot of things we talked about and touched on. It certainly wasn't a case of ignoring what I was shown. More my incompetence in managing to convert the information I was shown. Hopefully once my back is better I can hit the range, and work on the takeaway and length of swing on my own, in my own time and make the changes he wanted


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You miss my point. I WAS trying to do what he asked but if you've ever seen how long my swing is/was even with an iron, you'll realise that for me, finding a point that was short as he asked, compared to where short felt for me, was very hard. It felt to me as though those swings were going to shoulder height. That's part and parcel of the stuff he's given me to work on going forward

The other problem is we've never met, had a limited period of time, under a degree of pressure with everyone watching, for him to get his ideas over, me to understand them and try and make changes. There were a lot of things we talked about and touched on. It certainly wasn't a case of ignoring what I was shown. More my incompetence in managing to convert the information I was shown. Hopefully once my back is better I can hit the range, and work on the takeaway and length of swing on my own, in my own time and make the changes he wanted
		
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To be fair Homer, the first time I had proper lessons was when I was off 9, as had been self-taught until then.

You seem to have 3 things that I also had.

I couldn't believe the length of my back swing, even when I thought I was swinging till 9 o clock. When he showed me the video it back showed me at about 10 past 2. The camera doesn't lie.

You also seem to "bob" and lose your height and dip into the ball.

Your takeaway is also "snatched", and looks like you need to ease the club into your backswing not snatch at it. It also made my swing tempo better  - again all what I had to do.

I'm no great studier of a golf swing, so maybe take it with a pinch of salt, but theres 3 things that to me were noticeable.

Maybe next time get it on film, so the coach can show it back to you.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			To be fair Homer, the first time I had proper lessons was when I was off 9, as had been self-taught until then.

You seem to have 3 things that I also had.

I couldn't believe the length of my back swing, even when I thought I was swinging till 9 o clock. When he showed me the video it back showed me at about 10 past 2. The camera doesn't lie.

You also seem to "bob" and lose your height and dip into the ball.

Your takeaway is also "snatched", and looks like you need to ease the club into your backswing not snatch at it. It also made my swing tempo better  - again all what I had to do.

I'm no great studier of a golf swing, so maybe take it with a pinch of salt, but theres 3 things that to me were noticeable.

Maybe next time get it on film, so the coach can show it back to you.
		
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OK, so the stuff I have to work on from Paul from the lesson

Left foot open to 11o'clock, right foot back an inch and feeling slightly closed (he was very happy with posture as can be heard in video)
Takeaway - outside the line and too jerky. Need to feel arms coming inside, club staying outside hands and smoother for first 6-12inches
Back swing- shorten to shoulder height (BIGGEST/HARDEST challenge) with flat or slightly bowed wrist
Keep wrist angle on downswing (flat) as video shows arms dropping down and wrist cupping on downswing (loss of angles/casting or stuck inside depending of what I do to try and recover in the swing
Rotate strongly to clear hips/shoulders - this was happening in video and will being club shallower and in good parallel release position (you can see the position Paul puts the club in on the video for me to try and replicate)
Release through ball (not opening face)
Curtail follow through and don't exit so far left He'd be OK with a full rotation to a finish position if path is on better line and not so low and left (need to discuss this point further as not covered fully at time and need to understand implications and reasons)

SO NOT MUCH TO BE GETTING ON WITH. As I said there was an awful lot of information imparted in a very short time frame in less than ideal conditions (15-20mph wind into our face and rain showers). Hard to take on board everything I was being told, break the bad habits and ingrain everything. Add in everyone staring at you on the range and adding an element of pressure and it was hard to do everything asked of me. Let me reiterate, IT WAS NOT a case of ignoring what I was being told, more my lack of ability as a golfer to change everything/some of what I was being shown in those lesson conditions and environment.

Once my back is better (hopefully next week) I'll be hitting the range nightly and beginning by working on the address, that first move back and trying to stop the overswing and set the wrist. I'm not too fussed on rotation, strike or direction/distance at this stage as I can't really move on to address the other issues until I can swing back better and shorter.

The plan is to go to Paul in his Kent studio after Christmas or before the season with a better, more refined swing in place and have an hour of tuition to ensure it's working (and correlate the exit questions). As a result, unless the swing completely deserts me over the next few months and I need some tuition prior to a competition to get me to a place to at least get it round, I'm planning not further lessons or intervention from the teaching pro I'm using, bar speaking to a guy who does NLP to learn some ways of thinking better/smarter on the course, but which won't impact the technique I'm working on. I have more than enough good stuff from Paul to see me right and I just need to be able to grind the changes. The overswing/wrist cup is going to be the biggest of the lot but I know if I can get that in place the rest should slot into a semblance of order and sense and I can move the handicap forward

I think I've answered the accusation of not listening to what has been said and ignoring the advice and hopefully this will now explain fully everything that you'll see on film (including the second part to come) and what I need to do going forward. I'm happy with how it went and grateful to Paul and GM for everything they did on the day. I don't really propose extending too much further on what I've put here as I think it's clear here and on film what the problems were/are and what is going on to move the game forward.


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## garyinderry (Oct 5, 2017)

Over swing is a real funny thing with people. 

They have no idea how far back they really go.

What u feel you do and what actually happens is usually miles apart. Really do need to see it on video or do as paul did and put a rod in the way to physically stop you from doing it. 

Good drill for homer would be to take the club back very slowly, then do bobs favourite, a pause of a second or two before doing the downswing.


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## Dando (Oct 5, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Over swing is a real funny thing with people. 

They have no idea how far back they really go.

What u feel you do and what actually happens is usually miles apart. Really do need to see it on video or do as paul did and put a rod in the way to physically stop you from doing it. 

Good drill for homer would be to take the club back very slowly, then do bobs favourite, a pause of a second or two before doing the downswing.
		
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when i had a lesson a few months ago i was shocked how far i overswung the club. I thought i was horizontal at worse but i was a fair bit past.


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## garyinderry (Oct 5, 2017)

Dando said:



			when i had a lesson a few months ago i was shocked how far i overswung the club. I thought i was horizontal at worse but i was a fair bit past.
		
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3 things I would keep an eye on to prevent over swing.

â€¢don't let the lead arm break down
â€¢don't over rotate the hips. Feels some resistance 
â€¢don't let the right elbow get too deep or fly away from the body.


There may be more but those are the things id check first.


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## pendodave (Oct 5, 2017)

Might be worth reconsidering how you go about learning new moves, particularly if it's something that doesn't come easily.

Firstly, look at doing drills indoors - crossfield does a few with doorframes etc. These can be done little and often,allowing the brain more time to rewire itself.

Secondly, practice the movements in slow motion until you have them nailed down. If you can't to them at 25% speed, you'll have no chance at full whack. There are a few instructors who espouse this, I'm sure you can look them up.

My point is, going to a range and hitting balls is not a great way of affecting change (as you have already demonstrated). The importance of hitting the ball, and hitting it well, overrides the ability to make changes to an ingrained habit. Consequently, the habit remains.... 

I think this is true of many golfers, myself included, so please don't take it as a personal slight.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			OK, so the stuff I have to work on from Paul from the lesson

Left foot open to 11o'clock, right foot back an inch and feeling slightly closed (he was very happy with posture as can be heard in video)
Takeaway - outside the line and too jerky. Need to feel arms coming inside, club staying outside hands and smoother for first 6-12inches
Back swing- shorten to shoulder height (BIGGEST/HARDEST challenge) with flat or slightly bowed wrist
Keep wrist angle on downswing (flat) as video shows arms dropping down and wrist cupping on downswing (loss of angles/casting or stuck inside depending of what I do to try and recover in the swing
Rotate strongly to clear hips/shoulders - this was happening in video and will being club shallower and in good parallel release position (you can see the position Paul puts the club in on the video for me to try and replicate)
Release through ball (not opening face)
Curtail follow through and don't exit so far left He'd be OK with a full rotation to a finish position if path is on better line and not so low and left (need to discuss this point further as not covered fully at time and need to understand implications and reasons)

SO NOT MUCH TO BE GETTING ON WITH. As I said there was an awful lot of information imparted in a very short time frame in less than ideal conditions (15-20mph wind into our face and rain showers). Hard to take on board everything I was being told, break the bad habits and ingrain everything. Add in everyone staring at you on the range and adding an element of pressure and it was hard to do everything asked of me. Let me reiterate, IT WAS NOT a case of ignoring what I was being told, more my lack of ability as a golfer to change everything/some of what I was being shown in those lesson conditions and environment.

Once my back is better (hopefully next week) I'll be hitting the range nightly and beginning by working on the address, that first move back and trying to stop the overswing and set the wrist. I'm not too fussed on rotation, strike or direction/distance at this stage as I can't really move on to address the other issues until I can swing back better and shorter.

The plan is to go to Paul in his Kent studio after Christmas or before the season with a better, more refined swing in place and have an hour of tuition to ensure it's working (and correlate the exit questions). As a result, unless the swing completely deserts me over the next few months and I need some tuition prior to a competition to get me to a place to at least get it round, I'm planning not further lessons or intervention from the teaching pro I'm using, bar speaking to a guy who does NLP to learn some ways of thinking better/smarter on the course, but which won't impact the technique I'm working on. I have more than enough good stuff from Paul to see me right and I just need to be able to grind the changes. The overswing/wrist cup is going to be the biggest of the lot but I know if I can get that in place the rest should slot into a semblance of order and sense and I can move the handicap forward

I think I've answered the accusation of not listening to what has been said and ignoring the advice and hopefully this will now explain fully everything that you'll see on film (including the second part to come) and what I need to do going forward. I'm happy with how it went and grateful to Paul and GM for everything they did on the day. I don't really propose extending too much further on what I've put here as I think it's clear here and on film what the problems were/are and what is going on to move the game forward.
		
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Honest assessment.

Just a few things that may make you feel positive, as a lot of what you have said above, also mirrored my initial problems. Here were some of my mistakes, as I had a set of 5 lessons up at Manchester GC (which was 40 miles away):-

1. After going for a lesson, don't go and play against a mate. Being 3 down to Birchy after 3 holes, meant I returned to my normal swing. Maybe even play a few rounds without scoring. 

2. Don't get obsessed with length. I used to hit an 8 iron about 150 (pre-lessons), when I had the lessons it was only going 120. Partially being November and being cold and also the shortened, new swing. By the time it had bedded in  and was back to springtime I was hitting it only 140, but better, straighter and more consistently. Better game and only lost 10 yards per iron - I was happy with that.

3. I hated having 20 thought swings in my mind after having the lesson, but after a few weeks you will only have 10-12, as some will have become more natural. Over another month or so, you may just be down to a final 3-4. I apologised to my mates at first as over each ball I was taking 20-30 seconds - hated it, but it will come.

BTW - there are some 2 shot a hole chompers giving You advice, take no notice of big, fat scousers.:rofl:


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## davemc1 (Oct 5, 2017)

Fair do's to Homer for having the plums for getting his videos out in the open :thup:

The thing I can't grasp is how you can't manage a half swing after playing for 30odd years? Natural talent will plateau of course but even rank beginners can do a half swing on request. Plus, he's spending time on showing you ball positions, how do you not know this most basic information?

Seems the only thing you've got going for you is strike (which is the most important thing imo) and even that's not great if you're only hitting a 7 iron 140 :rofl: 


* last bit is a bit mischievous fun


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## spongebob59 (Oct 5, 2017)

pendodave said:



			Might be worth reconsidering how you go about learning new moves, particularly if it's something that doesn't come easily.

*Firstly, look at doing drills indoors - crossfield does a few with doorframes etc. These can be done little and often,allowing the brain more time to rewire itself.*

Secondly, practice the movements in slow motion until you have them nailed down. If you can't to them at 25% speed, you'll have no chance at full whack. There are a few instructors who espouse this, I'm sure you can look them up.

My point is, going to a range and hitting balls is not a great way of affecting change (as you have already demonstrated). The importance of hitting the ball, and hitting it well, overrides the ability to make changes to an ingrained habit. Consequently, the habit remains.... 

I think this is true of many golfers, myself included, so please don't take it as a personal slight.
		
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Got any links for these ?

Exactly what I need to work on :thup:


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## hines57 (Oct 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Most of it, but hard as we had a heavy rain shower and I've not seen all the footage. Found it hard (impossible) to shorten as far as he wanted and get the wrist position and then make a good turn (to be honest probably too much info crammed into one 90 minute) segment but I've some stuff to look at and things to work on. I'll look at what I have on camera and put something on the channel at some point in the next few days
		
Click to expand...

let us know when you first take the new swing out onto the course and we'll keep well clear of Ascot 
Glad you had a great time and look forward to hearing how you progress.


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## garyinderry (Oct 5, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Fair do's to Homer for having the plums for getting his videos out in the open :thup:

The thing I can't grasp is how you can't manage a half swing after playing for 30odd years? Natural talent will plateau of course but even rank beginners can do a half swing on request. Plus, he's spending time on showing you ball positions, how do you not know this most basic information?

Seems the only thing you've got going for you is strike (which is the most important thing imo) and even that's not great if you're only hitting a 7 iron 140 :rofl: 


* last bit is a bit mischievous fun 

Click to expand...


The thing is Dave, homers insistence on not doing his own home work has caused him a lot of strive in his swing.  Couple this with the incompetence of his last pro and its a bad mix. 

For a man who sees his swing on video a lot he really should have got to grips with his main faults.  The two main ones are the over swing and over the top move.  There is literally a ton of videos from some of the most respected coaches in the game showing you how to fix these faults.

Not only that there is a 'fix your slice' section in every second issue of golf monthly. The answer was there all along.

Homer to his detriment doesn't watch YouTube tips as they may 'mess up his swing'.  He put his full faith in that last pro which let him get away with murder. As a follower of homers channel I watched the lessons he posted through my fingers. It was painful viewing. I didn't like seeing him struggle and the guy who was supposed to be helping not even tackle the most glaring of faults. 

I am happy that homer has finally seen the light through this freebie from GM. A competent pro tackled this faults within minutes. 

Don't take any comments to heart homer. You seem to take criticism really personal. People are only trying to help you. Discussion is healthy.  I've had some great discussions and help on here since I joined and its helped my game for sure. People like BOBMAC, JUSTONE and THECOACH have helped me tremendously downs the years, but not just them, everyone who had chipped in with advice, questions and opinions have helped me understand my swing and the game of golf no end. 

You should use this platform to understand your swing better. Oneplaner is always doing this and fair play to him for it. I always enjoy those posts. 

Maybe this could be a wake up call for some of posters who want to improve. Video your swing. Get it posted and get help. Don't be shy.


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## richart (Oct 5, 2017)

I don't understand why Homer doesn't just hit a lot of half, three quarter shots. What he thinks is a 3/4 shot will be a full swing. Easier to have a positive swing thought of 3/4 swing, than a negative one of don't over swing.

Did mention over swing years back, as his position with a shorter swing at the top of back swing is not bad. Trying to help but perhaps not appreciated ?

Does amaze mme that so many different coaches have not picked up on over swing, and the standing up as he hits the ball. I had lessons with Carl Mason's dad, Roy years ago, and he hovered a club over my head, and smacked me with it if I came up too soon on a shot.


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## Fish (Oct 5, 2017)

richart said:



			I don't understand why Homer doesn't just hit a lot of half, three quarter shots. What he thinks is a 3/4 shot will be a full swing. Easier to have a positive swing thought of 3/4 swing, than a negative one of don't over swing.

Did mention over swing years back, as his position with a shorter swing at the top of back swing is not bad. Trying to help but perhaps not appreciated ?

Does amaze mme that so many different coaches have not picked up on over swing, and the standing up as he hits the ball. I had lessons with Carl Mason's dad, Roy years ago, and he hovered a club over my head, and smacked me with it if I came up too soon on a shot.

Click to expand...

I think to be fair to some of the previous pros that have coached Martin, they may after a rather short period time believed that his overswing was engrained in so much that attempting to change that was too unsettling to other positives he has, and as such they tried to get the best out of his bad habits and work with improving what's more natural to him. 

Not everyone can swing like a pro or achieve a text book swing, were all different in our abilities due to us not being athletes or built like one, so I'm a great believer of getting the most out of me 'warts 'n' all' as long as I strike the ball well and have a consistent shot shape. 

I've managed to tame my massive overswing that I had initially for a few years, but then I've only been playing 6 years, Martin has been playing 30+ so some things either will be tough to change or impossible to change as their engrained in far too much. 

I wish him luck, but after watching the video immediately on release and seeing that he simply couldn't restrict his club from a full swing, I think I'd be working on that premise right or wrong as he's clearly an 'all or nothing' swinger.

In my unqualified opinion of course &#128521;


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## richart (Oct 5, 2017)

I would agree with some one that doesn't practice has the odd lesson, and is happy to play golf for fun. Martin is not that sort of golfer, he is determined to get to single figures, he puts in the hours, has plenty of lessons, and I am sure would be prepared to get worse intially to get better longer term.

Not sure reducing your swing length is one of the hardest faults to cure. Old age tends to do it for you.


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## garyinderry (Oct 5, 2017)

Without real hard work and or intensive lessons, people will always have a certain amount of their swing DNA.  If I look at videos from the last few years and even longer than there, there is certain elements that have lasted. 

Things like over swinging and flying right elbows can be tamed. If you go to the range all winter with a headcover tucked under your right arm pit, by spring those things will have reduced. No doubt about it. 

Outside takeaway - place a second head cover outside the ball to physically stop you going there.  Again by spring that will be tamed. 

Things may slip back towards your natural tendencies but its about attacking those and maintaining the changes.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You miss my point. 




			Honestly homer I donâ€™t.
		
Click to expand...

I WAS trying to do what he asked but if you've ever seen how long my swing is/was even with an iron, you'll realise that for me, finding a point that was short as he asked, compared to where short felt for me, was very hard.




			Really Homer, You found it too difficult to hit it with half a swing?
		
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It felt to me as though those swings were going to shoulder height. That's part and parcel of the stuff he's given me to work on going forward 

The other problem is we've never met, had a limited period of time, under a degree of pressure with everyone watching, for him to get his ideas over, *me to understand them and try and make changes. * There were a lot of things we talked about and touched on. It certainly wasn't a case of ignoring what I was shown. *More my incompetence in managing to convert the information I was shown. *Hopefully once my back is better I can hit the range, and work on the takeaway and length of swing on my own, in my own time and make the changes he wanted
		
Click to expand...

Those bold bits sum it up really.

Good luck, canâ€™t wait for part deux


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2017)

richart said:



			I would agree with some one that doesn't practice has the odd lesson, and is happy to play golf for fun. Martin is not that sort of golfer, he is determined to get to single figures, he puts in the hours, has plenty of lessons, and I am sure would be prepared to get worse intially to get better longer term.

Not sure reducing your swing length is one of the hardest faults to cure. Old age tends to do it for you.

Click to expand...

Playing a 3/4 swing is something that someone who was a HC of 4 and an assistant pro ? Should be able to do with ease - you donâ€™t get that low without being able to manufacture shots using different swing length. For someone to have that many lessons and practise that much there surely there is a level that has been found and having that many lessons and practise then to not practise 3/4 swings ? Or not even been taught it and for 30 years ! Something isnâ€™t right


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## Fish (Oct 5, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Playing a 3/4 swing is something that someone who was a HC of 4 and an assistant pro ? Should be able to do with ease - you donâ€™t get that low without being able to manufacture shots using different swing length. For someone to have that many lessons and practise that much there surely there is a level that has been found and having that many lessons and practise then to not practise 3/4 swings ? Or not even been taught it and for 30 years ! Something isnâ€™t right
		
Click to expand...

ðŸŽ£ ðŸŽ£ðŸŽ£


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2017)

Some interesting comments. Thanks for the generally positive and *encouraging* views and I appreciate it. I'd point out that where I was as a 16 year old playing every day and where I am now, with all the injuries and ailments I've had on life's journey have taken a bigger toll than I perhaps admit. No surprise someone is trying to find an angle and "something isn't right" but I'll move on from that. Even though the mind still thinks I can produce the same shots I could 35 years ago the body disagrees. There are some obvious inherent and long ingrained issues. At least I have a template to work to, and a renewed drive to make the changes, break the circle and make single figures happen

Talking of ailments, the back is still bad and I haven't been able to practice but hope to hit a small bucket on Sunday and begin the work. Slow motion, rehearsal, watching it on video and patience as I start with takeaway and more importantly reducing the length. Thanks again for your input


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## shortgame (Oct 5, 2017)

Haven't watched the videos yet but will do later

However, when I had lessons years back I was given a drill to sort out an overswing and a severe OTT move... 

...it was simply to get to the correct static 3/4 top position, check in mirror, then swing down & through (amazing how far you can hit the ball from here with what feels like a half swing).  Repeat
then play a normal shot feeling that position

60 balls or so 3 x p/w worked a treat for me


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 5, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Without real hard work and or intensive lessons, people will always have a certain amount of their swing DNA.  If I look at videos from the last few years and even longer than there, there is certain elements that have lasted. 

Things like over swinging and flying right elbows can be tamed. If you go to the range all winter with a headcover tucked under your right arm pit, by spring those things will have reduced. No doubt about it. 

Outside takeaway - place a second head cover outside the ball to physically stop you going there.  Again by spring that will be tamed. 

Things may slip back towards your natural tendencies but its about attacking those and maintaining the changes.
		
Click to expand...

Thats if you can bothered with all that palaver.

My path has always been "the laziest way to get as low as I can". Some/most of us cant be bothered going the range 1-2 times a week, spending a fortune on lessons, spending 30 minutes on the putting green pre-round building gates, doing things with string - sound like Blue Peter.

Just enjoy it, and it may come via a different guise.

"The lazy way to single figures" - I may write that, it would sell millions!!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats if you can bothered with all that palaver.

My path has always been "the laziest way to get as low as I can". Some/most of us cant be bothered going the range 1-2 times a week, spending a fortune on lessons, spending 3 minutes on the putting green pre-round building gates, doing things with string - sound like Blue Peter.

Just enjoy it, and it may come via a different guise.

"The lazy way to single figures" - I may write that, it would sell millions!!!!! 

Click to expand...

You may be on to something there matey


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 5, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thats if you can bothered with all that palaver.

My path has always been "the laziest way to get as low as I can". Some/most of us cant be bothered going the range 1-2 times a week, spending a fortune on lessons, spending 3 minutes on the putting green pre-round building gates, doing things with string - sound like Blue Peter.

Just enjoy it, and it may come via a different guise.

"The lazy way to single figures" - I may write that, it would sell millions!!!!! 

Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll write the second part - lazy way to cat 1 

Time on the range for me is wasted time better spent on the golf course and I also believe itâ€™s the very best place to learn and practise the shots. 

Your line â€œjust enjoy itâ€ is spot on - go out and just play the game , if you play poorly - oh well itâ€™s not stopping food going on the table and the next round is not too far away


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## Fish (Oct 5, 2017)

shortgame said:



			...it was simply to get to the correct static 3/4 top position, check in mirror, then swing down & through (amazing how far you can hit the ball from here with what feels like a half swing).  Repeat
then play a normal shot feeling that position
		
Click to expand...

How many times have we all been under a tree with a restricted swing and nailed the ball out and immediately thought, Wow, look how far that's gone &#128540;

So why then when the balls out in the open do we try and thrash the living dsylights out of it &#129300;


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			How many times have we all been under a tree with a restricted swing and nailed the ball out and immediately thought, Wow, look how far that's gone &#128540;

So why then when the balls out in the open do we try and thrash the living dsylights out of it &#129300;
		
Click to expand...

And conversely how often when we have a branch do we rehearse and practice and miss everything, swing back to what we think is the same place and clatter into the branch or obstruction. Feel and real as I'm finding out are two different things


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## garyinderry (Oct 5, 2017)

good drill for practising a shorter swing is take it to the top and stop.  make sure you are in a good position at the top.  pump down, 1, 2 , 3 times then go ahead and hit it. 

more reps per one ball.  drills that move you want quicker. 

[video=youtube;93qAqzg75_Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93qAqzg75_Q[/video]


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## Fish (Oct 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And conversely how often when we have a branch do we rehearse and practice and miss everything, swing back to what we think is the same place and clatter into the branch or obstruction. Feel and real as I'm finding out are two different things
		
Click to expand...

There's your answer right there, I want to see your next video featuring you under a tree branch using it as a swing aid. 

I'm going to market with that &#128540;


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## garyinderry (Oct 5, 2017)

[video=youtube;ylhs7C5mltU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylhs7C5mltU[/video]


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## shortgame (Oct 5, 2017)

Hey Martin, good video
Lots of positives to take there:

Strikes looked and sounded good... the posture looks good... the positions on your rehearshal swings look sooo much better and you've some great reference points to refer to

When you get to grips with shortening it (the drill I mentioned plus those from Gary should help) I think you'll be well on the right track

Good luck with it and don't get sidetracked :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 5, 2017)

shortgame said:



			Hey Martin, good video
Lots of positives to take there:

Strikes looked and sounded good... the posture looks good... the positions on your rehearshal swings look sooo much better and you've some great reference points to refer to

When you get to grips with shortening it (the drill I mentioned plus those from Gary should help) I think you'll be well on the right track

Good luck with it and don't get sidetracked :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Cheers pal. Just need the back to get better. Hoping to do a range session on Sunday. Working on nothing but takeaway and that short swing and wrist position. Can't wait to get started on it


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## garyinderry (Oct 6, 2017)

spongebob59 said:



			Got any links for these ?

Exactly what I need to work on :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Drill number 4 here @8mins 34 is really good for over the toppers.  Really good this one.


[video=youtube;iDuY96UTjzA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDuY96UTjzA[/video]


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 7, 2017)

Part two up on my youtube channel. Much frustration on my part but some good stuff and sound advice. Lots of good stuff for me to take away and the good news is the back is feeling better so off to start work on it this afternoon. I'll be filming it over the next few weeks (for my own reference) and IF/WHEN I get the backwing, takeaway and flat wrist sorted I'll stick some footage.

Thanks so much for positivity and encouragement. It has meant a lot and I see this lesson and the changes Paul wants me to make as really last chance saloon for the quest for single figures and in essence, the winter work and what I can do in 2018 is really going to decide if I can do it. I think what Paul has started to give me is a clean slate and the building blocks to simplify my golf (and thinking). Lets see what I can do with it


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## chrisd (Oct 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Part two up on my youtube channel. Much frustration on my part but some good stuff and sound advice. Lots of good stuff for me to take away and the good news is the back is feeling better so off to start work on it this afternoon. I'll be filming it over the next few weeks (for my own reference) and IF/WHEN I get the backwing, takeaway and flat wrist sorted I'll stick some footage.

Thanks so much for positivity and encouragement. It has meant a lot and I see this lesson and the changes Paul wants me to make as really last chance saloon for the quest for single figures and in essence, the winter work and what I can do in 2018 is really going to decide if I can do it. I think what Paul has started to give me is a clean slate and the building blocks to simplify my golf (and thinking). Lets see what I can do with it
		
Click to expand...

Lets hope it works for you Homer


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 7, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Lets hope it works for you Homer
		
Click to expand...

Cheers pal. You and me both


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## bluewolf (Oct 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Part two up on my youtube channel. Much frustration on my part but some good stuff and sound advice. Lots of good stuff for me to take away and the good news is the back is feeling better so off to start work on it this afternoon. I'll be filming it over the next few weeks (for my own reference) and IF/WHEN I get the backwing, takeaway and flat wrist sorted I'll stick some footage.

Thanks so much for positivity and encouragement. It has meant a lot and I see this lesson and the changes Paul wants me to make as really last chance saloon for the quest for single figures and in essence, the winter work and what I can do in 2018 is really going to decide if I can do it. I think what Paul has started to give me is a clean slate and the building blocks to simplify my golf (and thinking). Lets see what I can do with it
		
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to watch part 2. After watching part 1 I put what the Pro was asking you to do into action at the range today. Considering I've hardly played all year, my ball striking was as good as ever. Can you thank him for me?

I genuinely hope that this Pro transforms your game, but I have to be honest. Watching part 1 reminded of that YouTube video of the guy chasing his dog. "Benton... Benton... BENTOOONNNN... BEEEENNNNNTTTTTOOOOONNNNNN....."


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## spongebob59 (Oct 7, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			3 things I would keep an eye on to prevent over swing.

â€¢don't let the lead arm break down
â€¢don't over rotate the hips. Feels some resistance 
â€¢don't let the right elbow get too deep or fly away from the body.


There may be more but those are the things id check first.
		
Click to expand...

Tried  these today, best ball striking in ages !


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## garyinderry (Oct 7, 2017)

spongebob59 said:



			Tried  these today, best ball striking in ages !
		
Click to expand...

Good to hear.  Pretty much impossible to over swing if you keep those things in check.  You just can't physically do it. 


There is probably a 4th check point with a funky grip or letting go of the grip slightly at the top to let you over swing but that would be rare.  I'd love at those 3 things first. 


Its perfectly possible to play good golf with an over swing.  Its just generally harder, less repeatable and just wasted movements.


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## Junior (Oct 7, 2017)

Seems like a top pro and a great teacher.  Stick with him Homer.


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## garyinderry (Oct 7, 2017)

Enjoyed the 2nd part of this lesson.  Part 1 was the real meat and bones of it all. 


Obviously plenty for you do be getting on with over the next few months.  Understanding what you have to do is the first hurdle. 

The main things you want to get rid of is

â€¢outside take away
â€¢cupped wrist
â€¢flying right elbow
â€¢over the top down swing. 


This video here is absolute gold for you.  There is 3 drills which should be the order you do them to rid yourself of  at least three of those faults. 

The towel drill under both arms will stop you taking it outside as you will drop the towel if the arms come away and also the flying right elbow as you will drop it if it comes way up like you do. 

The feet together drill will promote a more rounded swing.

The step forward drill will promote good weight shift and also the length of the backswing. 

[video=youtube;FCrUo3ASV7k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCrUo3ASV7k[/video]


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## Stuart_C (Oct 7, 2017)

Junior said:



			Seems like a top pro and a great teacher.  Stick with him Homer.
		
Click to expand...

This. 

Save your money and stay away from all of those other proâ€™s you use on a regular basis. The difference between your live lesson in jan/Feb  to this recent one is massive.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2017)

Junior said:



			Seems like a top pro and a great teacher.  Stick with him Homer.
		
Click to expand...

Gary in Derry or the poor sod on the video - joking!!!!


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## Crow (Oct 7, 2017)

This for me is one of the best YouTube videos out there, simple, clear and sensible from the greatest teacher of them all. 
You can't argue with the wisdom of the man, I know I've had times where I've become fixated on positions in the swing rather than the swing as a whole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbAe2vgfzbA


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 7, 2017)

Got out on the range. Bit nervous as the back is still a tad sore. Worked on a more connected and inside takeaway, much shorter swing and flatter wrist. Was working great, taking it away, stopped at a good position, checked the wrist set, and then simply turned down to hit the ball. Even with a pause, I was able to make some great connections and so proof that once I managed to start to work on it in stages, rather than trying to do everything Paul Foston was trying to cram into the 90 minutes, what he was showing me will work.

It was going swimmingly to the owner of the range and teaching pro David Johnson (http://www.lavenderparkgolf.co.uk/our-professionals/) wandered past and started suggesting a few things. As the owner of the range it was rather tricky to simply say "thanks but I'm good" and while he made sense, I want to stick to my plan and not get input other than from Paul. I let him try and get me to do the things he wanted (hip bump, path through impact etc) and tried to to what he showed. Once he wandered off, I simply reverted to the drills and stuff Paul showed me. I appreciate David's interest and input but it's not what I need at the moment.

As he's always pottering about the place (well it is his own business) especially at weekends I'm faced with a dilemma. He's bound to be there tomorrow and no doubt want to try and be helpful. Downshire is the nearest range, but full of kids and idiots and a hard place to focus and concentrate so I'm tempted to go to another range, probably Silvermere despite the drive as I think it'll be more conducive. Are there any other ranges in the Berkshire area worth trying first?

First signs are good but I was probably only swinging at 50% capacity and speed to try and slow everything and make sure takeaway and length were better but also to protect the back. It was a little sore but going to try again, at a better speed. Very happy and there is a lot of good stuff to come. I need to just use these first sessions to lay some very solid foundations


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## El Diablo (Oct 7, 2017)

Keep the work up - you could see positive change for Paul's advice so don't confuse it wth anyone else's feedback.

Wokefield Park is Berks but probably a bit far as just south of Reading, usually hitting into the wind and not covered so winter can be horrible down there - never that busy.

Pine Ridge though Surrey must be fairly close to you though clientele can be variable (I am a very rare visitor).


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 7, 2017)

El Diablo said:



			Keep the work up - you could see positive change for Paul's advice so don't confuse it wth anyone else's feedback.

Wokefield Park is Berks but probably a bit far as just south of Reading, usually hitting into the wind and not covered so winter can be horrible down there - never that busy.

Pine Ridge though Surrey must be fairly close to you though clientele can be variable (I am a very rare visitor).
		
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Thought about Wokefield as it's not too far away but as you say, open air. Pine Ridge does get a few herberts intent on mucking about from previous experience so Silvermere starts favourite as HID wants to go to a few garden centres that way. Was looking at Maidenhead Driving Range and shocked to see after so many years it closes in November and the RBWM council is putting its new leisure centre on the site. Shame as that was great, tucked away


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## El Diablo (Oct 7, 2017)

Silvermere is so darned expensive but tracking ball flight is a plus.


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## shortgame (Oct 7, 2017)

Will watch part 2 later so for now I'll just repeat... don't get side tracked Martin - keep that clear focus on what you're working on... one piece of the puzzle at
a time &#128077;&#128077;


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Got out on the range. Bit nervous as the back is still a tad sore. Worked on a more connected and inside takeaway, much shorter swing and flatter wrist. Was working great, taking it away, stopped at a good position, checked the wrist set, and then simply turned down to hit the ball. Even with a pause, I was able to make some great connections and so proof that once I managed to start to work on it in stages, rather than trying to do everything Paul Foston was trying to cram into the 90 minutes, what he was showing me will work.

It was going swimmingly to the owner of the range and teaching pro David Johnson (http://www.lavenderparkgolf.co.uk/our-professionals/) wandered past and started suggesting a few things. As the owner of the range it was rather tricky to simply say "thanks but I'm good" and while he made sense, I want to stick to my plan and not get input other than from Paul. I let him try and get me to do the things he wanted (hip bump, path through impact etc) and tried to to what he showed. Once he wandered off, I simply reverted to the drills and stuff Paul showed me. I appreciate David's interest and input but it's not what I need at the moment.

As he's always pottering about the place (well it is his own business) especially at weekends I'm faced with a dilemma. He's bound to be there tomorrow and no doubt want to try and be helpful. Downshire is the nearest range, but full of kids and idiots and a hard place to focus and concentrate so I'm tempted to go to another range, probably Silvermere despite the drive as I think it'll be more conducive. Are there any other ranges in the Berkshire area worth trying first?

First signs are good but I was probably only swinging at 50% capacity and speed to try and slow everything and make sure takeaway and length were better but also to protect the back. It was a little sore but going to try again, at a better speed. Very happy and there is a lot of good stuff to come. I need to just use these first sessions to lay some very solid foundations
		
Click to expand...

Driving range snob!!!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Driving range snob!!!!!
		
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Don't think so. Just want to make this work and would prefer not to have screaming brats and teenagers hitting balls of high tees into the roof of the range and making a racket. If that make me a snob in your eyes (and others so be it)


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## User20205 (Oct 7, 2017)

Donâ€™t wanna be that fella.....but isnâ€™t there all an element of deja vu about this ?


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 7, 2017)

I really do wish you all the best Homer. 
But can I just ask a question,and Iâ€™m not having a go. 
Do actually enjoy playing golf?


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## User20205 (Oct 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I really do wish you all the best Homer. 
But can I just ask a question,and Iâ€™m not having a go. 
Do actually enjoy playing golf?
		
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Itâ€™s a job of work!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 7, 2017)

Pin-seeker said:



			I really do wish you all the best Homer. 
But can I just ask a question,and Iâ€™m not having a go. 
Do actually enjoy playing golf?
		
Click to expand...

Love it. Always one shot to bring you back and I love being both on the course playing irrespective of form, and the journey to try and get better


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 7, 2017)

therod said:



			Donâ€™t wanna be that fella.....but isnâ€™t there all an element of deja vu about this ?
		
Click to expand...

You may be right. However as GM were kind enough to pick me for this and Paul kind enough to impart his advice I think they deserve me to at least give it a go over a period of time rather than rock up, enjoy the day and then carry on as usual and the handicap stagnating in the mid-teens. If I try and it doesn't get better then at least I'll have enjoyed the process and seeing what I can do on a range and then on a course with it.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Don't think so. Just want to make this work and would prefer not to have screaming brats and teenagers hitting balls of high tees into the roof of the range and making a racket. If that make me a snob in your eyes (and others so be it)
		
Click to expand...

Just a Joke, Homer.:cheers:


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Love it. Always one shot to bring you back and I love being both on the course playing irrespective of form, and the journey to try and get better
		
Click to expand...

Fair doâ€™s. 
Iâ€™d probably be in a nut house by now  if I put myself under as much pressure as you seem to,to improve. 
But weâ€™re all different & like I said all the best ðŸ‘ðŸ»


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## Pin-seeker (Oct 7, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Just a Joke, Homer.:cheers:
		
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You and your jokes Sin &#128514;


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## User20205 (Oct 7, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You may be right. However as GM were kind enough to pick me for this and Paul kind enough to impart his advice I think they deserve me to at least give it a go over a period of time rather than rock up, enjoy the day and then carry on as usual and the handicap stagnating in the mid-teens. If I try and it doesn't get better then at least I'll have enjoyed the process and seeing what I can do on a range and then on a course with it.
		
Click to expand...

It was a bit flippant! Apologies. What I mean is find a method/process and stick with it. If this fella is as good as is made out and what he had you doing resonates, ignore the rest of it. All of it; bloke down the range with his kindly advice, the other pros who havenâ€™t really helped over the last 3 years, NGT, linear method (wonâ€™t include aimpoint as putting is a game within a game)
Iâ€™m not gonna post helpful YouTube vids as I know nothing, but donâ€™t get distracted by the next golden bullet.


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## chrisd (Oct 7, 2017)

therod said:



			as I know nothing,
		
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You know how to write &#128513;


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## User20205 (Oct 7, 2017)

chrisd said:



			You know how to write ðŸ˜
		
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Thatâ€™s almost a compliment from you Chris, I expected the answer â€˜I know nothing.....correctâ€™


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## chrisd (Oct 8, 2017)

therod said:



			Thatâ€™s almost a compliment from you Chris, I expected the answer â€˜I know nothing.....correctâ€™ 

Click to expand...

I'm getting soft in my old age Nick


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## garyinderry (Oct 9, 2017)

Homer have you ever had a lesson where you were told to keep the club face looking at the ball for as long as possible?


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## Dogma (Oct 9, 2017)

Keep it up Homer


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 10, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Homer have you ever had a lesson where you were told to keep the club face looking at the ball for as long as possible?
		
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No!


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## garyinderry (Oct 10, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No!
		
Click to expand...

Well its something you do and IMO causing you lots of problems. 

Its seems like a sensible thing to do but its not.  This video here describes your take away to a T and the subsequent problems that causes in the swing.  Right arm deep, across the line etc. 

[video=youtube;nNCQY_0x6B4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNCQY_0x6B4[/video]


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## garyinderry (Oct 10, 2017)

[video=youtube;Px50pNlcqPo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px50pNlcqPo[/video] 


Great description of what you are doing here.  No arm rotation causes you to be across the line.


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## garyinderry (Oct 10, 2017)

This guys swing who sent his swing in to me and my golf has a very similar action to yourself. 

[video=youtube;LXiQ9vB3EAQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXiQ9vB3EAQ&t=73s&list=PLwjENmxqv3rF_d-Lc8kLgJO3qmWhmWCk8&index=11[/video]


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## garyinderry (Oct 10, 2017)

[video=youtube;GG_pxKw91ec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG_pxKw91ec&t=300s[/video]


Even if you are not interested in this I will leave these videos as it may resonate with someone else who has a similar problem. 


I don't think Paul Foston had enough time to tackle this problem as he had enough on his plate.  I was kinds surprised he didn't use any slow motion videos with you. Pretty sure a 'shut' take away would be evident on film.


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## ger147 (Oct 10, 2017)

There you go Homer, just what you need, a stack of YouTube videos to further muddy the waters...


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## shortgame (Oct 10, 2017)

Honestly think Martin needs to be single minded and disciplined to work on what ONE person (his latest coach) wants him to do, however well intentioned the other advice

One step at a time


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 10, 2017)

shortgame said:



			Honestly think Martin needs to be single minded and disciplined to work on what ONE person (his latest coach) wants him to do, however well intentioned the other advice

One step at a time
		
Click to expand...

Nail on the head. I appreciate what Gary is trying to do but I have some clear steps to work on. It's a massive project and has to be broken down into stages. I can't move forward until I nail the takeaway and the short swing and flat wrist. That is going to be a big change in itself


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## garyinderry (Oct 11, 2017)

[video=youtube;fci369mrffg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fci369mrffg[/video]



HomerJSimpson said:



			Nail on the head. I appreciate what Gary is trying to do but I have some clear steps to work on. It's a massive project and has to be broken down into stages. I can't move forward until I nail the takeaway and the short swing and flat wrist. That is going to be a big change in itself
		
Click to expand...


This arm rotation is necessary to achieve what you want.  Without it there is no way to keep the elbow pointing down at the top of the back swing. It gets pushed back behind you and then lifted up with the arms. 

You don't even need to hit balls with this drill.  Please try and it with a club at home and tell me if you can still over swing.


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 11, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Nail on the head. I appreciate what Gary is trying to do but I have some clear steps to work on. It's a massive project and has to be broken down into stages. I can't move forward until I nail the takeaway and the short swing and flat wrist. That is going to be a big change in itself
		
Click to expand...

Stick with it Homer, and stick with Paul Foston. 

I know a few people in my area that have worked him and have nothing but very positive things to say about him. A friend I have made by frequenting the driving range knows him very well from his time coaching Paul Way, he's got a track record of success.

I think you and I have some things in common when it comes to coaching, although you may tell me differently, I don't always fully trust what I'm being told by a coach is the right way to go. I might start off doing what they say, but before too long, I go back to what feels right and what I can make work because I don't see the results that I want from what I'm being taught. If you find a coach that you really believe and trust, stick with them, worth their weight in gold. Even if they're expensive and / or far away!

Good luck.


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## chrisd (Oct 11, 2017)

How about a plan Homer. I live 20 minutes from Paul Fostons studio, so, you pay for some lessons and I'll pop along for you and do the lessons, and then I can give you a rundown on what you're supposed to be doing either on here or by phone - it'll save all that driving on the M25/26/20!


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## Midnight (Oct 11, 2017)

chrisd said:



			How about a plan Homer. I live 20 minutes from Paul Fostons studio, so, you pay for some lessons and I'll pop along for you and do the lessons, and then I can give you a rundown on what you're supposed to be doing either on here or by phone - it'll save all that driving on the M25/26/20!
		
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I can't believe a man of your age would remember how to text the information mate ? &#128514;&#128514;


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## garyinderry (Oct 11, 2017)

This young lad here has a pretty good back swing.  He doesn't keep the face looking at the ball going back for too long.  His swing isn't too long and the right elbow folds well and points down somewhat. Its not an outside takeaway and no big massive over swing. 

[video=youtube;eeYs6uufg6s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeYs6uufg6s[/video]


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2017)

chrisd said:



			How about a plan Homer. I live 20 minutes from Paul Fostons studio, so, you pay for some lessons and I'll pop along for you and do the lessons, and then I can give you a rundown on what you're supposed to be doing either on here or by phone - it'll save all that driving on the M25/26/20!
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic offer I'm struggling to refuse but after much soul searching for a matter of seconds I'm going to have to decline


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## chrisd (Oct 11, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fantastic offer I'm struggling to refuse but after much soul searching for a matter of seconds I'm going to have to decline
		
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.................. you try and help and that's the thanks you get &#9786;


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## spongebob59 (Oct 11, 2017)

How about me and Chris split the cost of the lessons so you get it half price !


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## chrisd (Oct 11, 2017)

spongebob59 said:



			How about me and Chris split the cost of the lessons so you get it half price !
		
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I'm struggling with the maths there!


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## spongebob59 (Oct 11, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I'm struggling with the maths there!
		
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Probably why I don't do the card in the swindle too


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 11, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			This young lad here has a pretty good back swing.  He doesn't keep the face looking at the ball going back for too long.  His swing isn't too long and the right elbow folds well and points down somewhat. Its not an outside takeaway and no big massive over swing. 

[video=youtube;eeYs6uufg6s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeYs6uufg6s[/video]
		
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The disguise with the hair doesnt fool me.


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## garyinderry (Oct 12, 2017)

That right there is the beauty of recording your swing and having it to hand.   if you feel your game or swing slipping, you can go back and see what you did differently when you hit the ball better. 

This swing here is a world away from what he had been doing recently.  I wouldn't fancy playing that swing off 13 for money. Especially if the chipping and putting have improved which I think it has from back then.


Homer you would be crazy not to document and use your practice and progress as material for your channel.  Its called a quest for single figures. People would like to see how that was achieved much more than your thoughts on the new volvik golf ball for example.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			That right there is the beauty of recording your swing and having it to hand.   if you feel your game or swing slipping, you can go back and see what you did differently when you hit the ball better. 

This swing here is a world away from what he had been doing recently.  I wouldn't fancy playing that swing off 13 for money. Especially if the chipping and putting have improved which I think it has from back then.


Homer you would be crazy not to document and use your practice and progress as material for your channel.  Its called a quest for single figures. People would like to see how that was achieved much more than your thoughts on the new volvik golf ball for example.
		
Click to expand...

I will be. The issue is my back has been playing up and I simply haven't hit any balls. I hit a very small basket on Sunday but didn't film it as I wasn't sure if the back would hold up. Touch wood its starting to feel better and I plan to do some work on Sunday, having played Saturday. I'll be on the practice ground, so plenty of light and room to film down the line and side on. As I said in another post, really engaged again with my game, and have mentally cleared the next five months to break the back of the main habits, the takeaway and the over swing, and get a better start, and turn to a more concise top of the swing position with a flatter wrist, giving me time to come back on a shallower angle and rotate through better. 

Of course I understand I need to take it to the course too as well but was planning not to bother with too many comps after the monthly stableford in a week or so and just go out in the roll up when there's no pressure and I can really just focus on my swing in a real time environment, even if that means too many thoughts in my mind initially. I have a plan in mind, I have a vision in my head of how it should look, and I've even managed to perform the correct swing a couple of times to understand how it should be. I've still got a follow up with Paul as well and right now I'm in a very happy Homer place and the "Quest" is definitely back in business


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## garyinderry (Oct 12, 2017)

11.58 in this video you can actually see the second the penny drops and light switch goes on. 

"tha, that's a full swing?.?.?'' 


HOLD THAT THOUGHT :thup:

[video=youtube;5q8dWt6G43E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q8dWt6G43E[/video]


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## Qwerty (Oct 12, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			[video=youtube;5q8dWt6G43E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q8dWt6G43E[/video]
		
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Caption Comp' Anyone?.....


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## pokerjoke (Oct 12, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			Caption Comp' Anyone?.....
		
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Thats tempting,very tempting


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 12, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			Caption Comp' Anyone?.....
		
Click to expand...

Yes, sir I can Boogie......

Actually looking at the rest of the lyrics, they seem apt......

Mister,
 Your eyes are full of hesitation,
 Sure makes me wonder,
 If you know what your looking for.

Uumm, Baby I wan't to keep my reputation,
 I'm a sensation,
 You try me once you'll beg for more.

Oooohh! Yes sir, I can boogie,
 But I need a certain song,
 I can boogie, boogie woogie all night long
 Ooooh!

Yes sir, I can boogie
 If you stay, you can't go wrong,
 I can boogie, boogie woogie all night long...


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## pokerjoke (Oct 12, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			Caption Comp' Anyone?.....
		
Click to expand...

Homer- get off my bloody foot
Paul- well keep your head still and half swing,how many more times


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## trevor (Oct 12, 2017)

Just read this from a post a few months ago from Homer!!! "Had a lesson on Wednesday. Nothing to drastic other than tweaking set up and making sure I complete the back swing properly.
Read more at http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...d-(rolling-thread)/page19#tFcDHwyugfwMQ201.99
Now to unlearn that lesson.


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## shortgame (Oct 12, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			Caption Comp' Anyone?.....
		
Click to expand...

I've identified the problem, it's in here inbetween my hands


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## shortgame (Oct 12, 2017)

Qwerty said:



			Caption Comp' Anyone?.....
		
Click to expand...

Now. We place one electrode here and another just here, targeting all previous swing thoughts


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 12, 2017)

Managed to hit a bucket at the range without too much discomfort although the back is sore now I've sat for a while. The change is hard, especially the flat wrist and short (what Paul Foston would call short). However it is coming. Not often and regularly enough yet. Hopefully I'll get it on camera on Sunday


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## chrisd (Oct 12, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Managed to hit a bucket at the range without too much discomfort although the back is sore now I've sat for a while.
		
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I know they don't have instruction HJS  BUT shouldn't you only hit the balls that were in the bucket? 

&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;


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## shortgame (Oct 13, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			11.58 in this video you can actually see the second the penny drops and light switch goes on. 

"tha, that's a full swing?.?.?''
		
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Great observation.  That position is 'it' &#128076;


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## shortgame (Oct 13, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Managed to hit a bucket at the range without too much discomfort although the back is sore now I've sat for a while. The change is hard, especially the flat wrist and short (what Paul Foston would call short). However it is coming. Not often and regularly enough yet. Hopefully I'll get it on camera on Sunday
		
Click to expand...

Keep working on it, might take a while feel normal but you will get there &#128077;&#128077;


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## Depreston (Oct 14, 2017)

As a fellow overswinger I completely get the difficulty of swinging short I work hard at it, make progress but then it's back to normal when on the course and I've got 170+ par 3 or approach shot

its a vicious cycle as the more I overswing the worse my strike becomes etc


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 14, 2017)

Depreston said:



			As a fellow overswinger I completely get the difficulty of swinging short I work hard at it, make progress but then it's back to normal when on the course and I've got 170+ par 3 or approach shot

its a vicious cycle as the more I overswing the worse my strike becomes etc
		
Click to expand...

Took it on the course today. Warm up very encouraging but on the course, tempo way too quick, swing way too long and wrists cupping. Too much too soon having only had one range session with it since the lesson. The good ones today were a different class but too many mistakes. A million miles from being ingrained or natural but one baby step at a time


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## chrisd (Oct 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Took it on the course today. Warm up very encouraging but on the course, tempo way too quick, swing way too long and wrists cupping. Too much too soon having only had one range session with it since the lesson. The good ones today were a different class but too many mistakes. A million miles from being ingrained or natural but one baby step at a time
		
Click to expand...

Rome wasnt built in a day!  Keep practicing!


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## garyinderry (Nov 29, 2017)

Homer I have just watched you latest 9 hole course vlog and since I was one of the harshest critics, not of you but of your old swing, I think its only fair I give credit where credit is due. 

Congratulations on your recent score of +8 and also knocking together a PB front 9 of +3 for the front 9 on camera.  :thup:   that is the kind of scores you are more than capable of on a regular basis. 

Looking at your recent swing, it seems that you have stopped taking the club way outside on the way back. You are not aiming left with open shoulders like you were, the swing looks shorter (at least with the shorter clubs, driver still a tad long). You have stopped the wild OOT steep action which is much better. 

You must be finding it so much easier to hit the ball in a controllable fashion which would have been so difficult before. 

Whilst not being perfect (who is eh), it looks well on the way to getting back to that swing you had when on the cusp of single figures.  I didn't ever see you chipping, but you documented it well on here that it was terrible back then.  The pitching looks like you will give yourself a chance of getting up and down.  Your putting does look good. Particularly holing out which is something you said you do practice regularly. I am mighty impressed by that. 

I feel your pain (literally) with the back problems. Lets hope we can both get fit and stay fit.  I see no reason why you can't get that handicap moving in the right direction by the time the qualifiers start up again.  No doubt you will take a few quid off boys over the winter too before those cuts roll in.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 29, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Homer I have just watched you latest 9 hole course vlog and since I was one of the harshest critics, not of you but of your old swing, I think its only fair I give credit where credit is due. 

Congratulations on your recent score of +8 and also knocking together a PB front 9 of +3 for the front 9 on camera.  :thup:   that is the kind of scores you are more than capable of on a regular basis. 

Looking at your recent swing, it seems that you have stopped taking the club way outside on the way back. You are not aiming left with open shoulders like you were, the swing looks shorter (at least with the shorter clubs, driver still a tad long). You have stopped the wild OOT steep action which is much better. 

You must be finding it so much easier to hit the ball in a controllable fashion which would have been so difficult before. 

Whilst not being perfect (who is eh), it looks well on the way to getting back to that swing you had when on the cusp of single figures.  I didn't ever see you chipping, but you documented it well on here that it was terrible back then.  The pitching looks like you will give yourself a chance of getting up and down.  Your putting does look good. Particularly holing out which is something you said you do practice regularly. I am mighty impressed by that. 

I feel your pain (literally) with the back problems. Lets hope we can both get fit and stay fit.  I see no reason why you can't get that handicap moving in the right direction by the time the qualifiers start up again.  No doubt you will take a few quid off boys over the winter too before those cuts roll in.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe when he passes you (handicap wise), he can send you 400 swing videos to watch, and work on.:rofl:


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## garyinderry (Nov 29, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe when he passes you (handicap wise), he can send you 400 swing videos to watch, and work on.:rofl:
		
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I am watching over my shoulder for him. He is watching over his for fish. :thup:


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## Crow (Nov 29, 2017)

Striking it well Homer!

And good camera work by I assume Mrs H.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Homer I have just watched you latest 9 hole course vlog and since I was one of the harshest critics, not of you but of your old swing, I think its only fair I give credit where credit is due. 

Congratulations on your recent score of +8 and also knocking together a PB front 9 of +3 for the front 9 on camera.  :thup:   that is the kind of scores you are more than capable of on a regular basis. 

Looking at your recent swing, it seems that you have stopped taking the club way outside on the way back. You are not aiming left with open shoulders like you were, the swing looks shorter (at least with the shorter clubs, driver still a tad long). You have stopped the wild OOT steep action which is much better. 

You must be finding it so much easier to hit the ball in a controllable fashion which would have been so difficult before. 

Whilst not being perfect (who is eh), it looks well on the way to getting back to that swing you had when on the cusp of single figures.  I didn't ever see you chipping, but you documented it well on here that it was terrible back then.  The pitching looks like you will give yourself a chance of getting up and down.  Your putting does look good. Particularly holing out which is something you said you do practice regularly. I am mighty impressed by that. 

I feel your pain (literally) with the back problems. Lets hope we can both get fit and stay fit.  I see no reason why you can't get that handicap moving in the right direction by the time the qualifiers start up again.  No doubt you will take a few quid off boys over the winter too before those cuts roll in.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers. Really appreciate it. Frustrated that it's a bit stop start with the back (stop at moment) but feel I'm hitting it better. Was as surprised as anyone by the last two scores!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 30, 2017)

Homer, I have said it before and I'll say it again. If you are serious about getting your handicap down then you need to work on eliminating all the excess movement in your swing. You sway back and through and your height moves up and down. Until you get to a quieter, more balanced swing you will struggle to hit the ball consistently. Forget length of backswing etc, that is not the problem.


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## richart (Nov 30, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Homer, I have said it before and I'll say it again. If you are serious about getting your handicap down then you need to work on eliminating all the excess movement in your swing. You sway back and through and your height moves up and down. Until you get to a quieter, more balanced swing you will struggle to hit the ball consistently. Forget length of backswing etc, that is not the problem.
		
Click to expand...

 If you freeze the swing at 3/4 position it looks decent. No head movement up, decent turn, and a strong position to swing dwon from. From then on head comes up etc. I did say this years back and personally think Homer should work hard at reducing the swing length. 

Could well also help with back problems,  and I would definitely get rid of the posed follow through position. That would kill my back, and doesn't add to the shot.  Having suffered with a bad back for some time, I get out of the follow through position asap. I would also be careful practicing too much, especially short game for too long. Putting and chipping leaning does not help some back problems.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 30, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Homer, I have said it before and I'll say it again. If you are serious about getting your handicap down then you need to work on eliminating all the excess movement in your swing. You sway back and through and your height moves up and down. Until you get to a quieter, more balanced swing you will struggle to hit the ball consistently. Forget length of backswing etc, that is not the problem.
		
Click to expand...

Gordon is right, I'm obviously no pga pro but you quite clearly straighten up at the top of your swing. I don't know how that affects the clubhead on the way down but you are moving your centre so it must be changing something.


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## Slab (Dec 1, 2017)

Unless its all edited out it looks like Homers dropped aimpoint too and regardless of opinion on that method (& even though there was a positive comment earlier) I think he putts like a 20+ player on that video
_(I'm assuming that was his home course he was playing) _


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## Smiffy (Dec 1, 2017)

I watched the video in the hope of seeing some "spin action" from those Volvik golf balls.
It's a shame you didn't hit any greens in regulation mate......


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## chrisd (Dec 1, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			Gordon is right, I'm obviously no pga pro but you quite clearly straighten up at the top of your swing. I don't know how that affects the clubhead on the way down but you are moving your centre so it must be changing something.
		
Click to expand...

I noticed that too. Also, why would you record a playing video and clearly NOT do the swing that you had an extensive lesson from a top coach teach you?


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## duncan mackie (Dec 1, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I noticed that too. Also, why would you record a playing video and clearly NOT do the swing that you had an extensive lesson from a top coach teach you?
		
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Harsh...but fair i:thup:


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## Smiffy (Dec 1, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			Gordon is right, *I'm obviously no pga pro *but you quite clearly straighten up at the top of your swing. I don't know how that affects the clubhead on the way down but you are moving your centre so it must be changing something.
		
Click to expand...

I'm probably as close as you can get to being a PGA Pro (without actually being certified) and I notice on the video taken directly behind, you can see the divot Homer is making is slightly _*inside*_ where the actual ball was positioned.
This would lead me to believe that distance is being lost as the ball is leaving from the _*toe*_ of the club, not the _*sweetspot.*_ 
Not good news for distance as I say. But good news for anybody looking to buy Homers clubs in a few months time.


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## IainP (Dec 1, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			I'm probably as close as you can get to being a PGA Pro (without actually being certified)....
		
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Post of the month so far! 

See what I did there


----------



## chrisd (Dec 1, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			I'm probably as close as you can get to being a PGA Pro (without actually being certified).
		
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&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;


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## Smiffy (Dec 1, 2017)

IainP said:



			Post of the month so far! 

See what I did there 

Click to expand...




chrisd said:



			&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;&#63779;
		
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Cheeky buggers.....


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## bobmac (Dec 1, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Homer, I have said it before and I'll say it again. If you are serious about getting your handicap down then you need to work on eliminating all the excess movement in your swing. You sway back and through and your height moves up and down. Until you get to a quieter, more balanced swing you will struggle to hit the ball consistently. Forget length of backswing etc, that is not the problem.
		
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Spot on.
A while back in another thread I said I wouldn't worry about your backswing I'd rather focus on the impact position.
The above is what I was hinting at.

IMO, it would be very difficult to change the backswing and the downswing so I would focus on the downswing/impact.

Here are 2 stills of you Martin, address and just after impact.




As you can see, a big change in posture.
That's what I would try and improve first.


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			I'm probably as close as you can get to being a PGA Pro (without actually being certified) and I notice on the video taken directly behind, you can see the divot Homer is making is slightly _*inside*_ where the actual ball was positioned.
This would lead me to believe that distance is being lost as the ball is leaving from the _*toe*_ of the club, not the _*sweetspot.*_ 
Not good news for distance as I say. But good news for anybody looking to buy Homers clubs in a few months time.
		
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Iâ€™m also no PGA pro, but my concern is more apparel related. Iâ€™ve watched a few videos  I donâ€™t understand why homer canâ€™t find a pair of trousers that fit him. They all seem to be an inch short. Canâ€™t Mrs homer let the hems down??


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## bluewolf (Dec 1, 2017)

Nice vid Martin. However, one thing I've noticed... you'd actually hit the ball further if you hit it with your backswing rather than your downswing. 

That's Â£50 please....


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## Slab (Dec 1, 2017)

Also if i was gonna claim _*= best ever 9*_ to the world, then I'd probably need to add my penalty strokes & do a recount 

Otherwise it was just a very satisfactory practice session

(not holing out and hitting flagstick from on the green, twice each! Norris McWhirter just called and he's not havin it!)


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## moogie (Dec 1, 2017)

bluewolf said:



			Nice vid Martin. However, one thing I've noticed... you'd actually hit the ball further if you hit it with your backswing rather than your downswing. 

That's Â£50 please....
		
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Know what you mean,  just watched 
Backswing must be 2-3 times the speed of the downswing
Almost like decelerating as he "stands up" through the swing


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## bluewolf (Dec 1, 2017)

moogie said:



			Know what you mean,  just watched 
Backswing must be 2-3 times the speed of the downswing
Almost like decelerating as he "stands up" through the swing
		
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Exactly.. He must be knackered by the time he gets the clubhead back to the ball.. 

Martin, in all seriousness, just slow the backswing to a touch below warp factor 9.9...

Danny - Not a PGA Pro, or even a particularly good golfer.. But, I did once shoot level par in a practice round so I reckon that qualifies me to give advice....


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2017)

Slab said:



			Unless its all edited out it looks like Homers dropped aimpoint too and regardless of opinion on that method (& even though there was a positive comment earlier) I think he putts like a 20+ player on that video
_(I'm assuming that was his home course he was playing) _

Click to expand...

Still using it but simply edited out to make the video flow a little better


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 1, 2017)

I realise Martin opens himself up to all of this by posting videos on YouTube (albeit he didnâ€™t post it on here), but even so, some of the comments on here are a little below the belt. Very easy to mock him when youâ€™re not posting videos yourself. Play nicely.


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## Smiffy (Dec 1, 2017)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Play nicely.
		
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You must be joking!!
:rofl:


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## Canary_Yellow (Dec 1, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			You must be joking!!
:rofl:
		
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:rofl: 

This place is like a playground full of bored old people, slightly more mischievous than children!


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## garyinderry (Dec 1, 2017)

bobmac said:



			Spot on.
A while back in another thread I said I wouldn't worry about your backswing I'd rather focus on the impact position.
The above is what I was hinting at.

IMO, it would be very difficult to change the backswing and the downswing so I would focus on the downswing/impact.

Here are 2 stills of you Martin, address and just after impact.

View attachment 23996


As you can see, a big change in posture.
That's what I would try and improve first.
		
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that swing is 8 years old.   up till a month ago he didnt swing anything like that.  he had a huge outside takeway and massive ott action. he obviously could not control it and his game regressed from this swing. 

why does he stand up?  is that to create room that isnt there? 

at least with this swing it looks like he could hit controlled pulls. looks more than capable of getting it round in the 70s like that. 

theres untold amounts of people with funky actions that have single figures to their name. me for one lol


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

Canary_Yellow said:



			:rofl: 

This place is like a playground full of bored old people, slightly more mischievous than children!
		
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I resent that!!! Iâ€™m genuinely concerned about the standard of his tailoring!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2017)

therod said:



			They all seem to be an inch short. Canâ€™t Mrs homer let the hems down??
		
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The rain was that heavy on the last three holes they probably shrunk as I played. You've made me all self conscious about my choice of attire for tomorrow now


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## richart (Dec 1, 2017)

therod said:



			I resent that!!! Iâ€™m genuinely concerned about the standard of his tailoring!!!
		
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I think Homer has reached the age where he could get away with a flat cap. Keep the bonce nice and warm. :thup:


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

richart said:



			I think Homer has reached the age where he could get away with a flat cap. Keep the bonce nice and warm. :thup:
		
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Yes but not the ears!!! I have one, I am in the bracket  but they donâ€™t keep your ears warm. We donâ€™t all have the luxury of hair! I may have to look for a deerstalker with ear flaps ??


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The rain was that heavy on the last three holes they probably shrunk as I played. You've made me all self conscious about my choice of attire for tomorrow now
		
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Get yourself some Ricky Fowler skinny leg trousers and a â€˜flatâ€™ bill. You need to appeal to the younger demographic if youâ€™re gonna go viral!!


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## Jensen (Dec 1, 2017)

I agree with Canary Yellow says, it's far too easy to mock and criticise. Homer I applaud you for posting your swings and keep your chin up.

Regards the standing up that Bob refers to, is this not "early extention".  The hips move forward towards the ball causing you to stand up. This is an area that I have been recently working on, and have found the link below extremely useful.

https://youtu.be/zUI_ckgBF_A


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## El Diablo (Dec 1, 2017)

Homer - for future lessons are you going back to Paul Foston for a follow up lesson or shared your video for him to take a look or working with someone more local ?

Never mind the "expert" advice on here and the work you can do yourself a follow up would be useful to keep you on track.


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## Parky24 (Dec 1, 2017)

I suppose when you post links to youtube videos and give details of your lesson on public forum you invite comments/opinions from other forum members


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

I think a history lesson for some might be in order


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 1, 2017)

El Diablo said:



			Homer - for future lessons are you going back to Paul Foston for a follow up lesson or shared your video for him to take a look or working with someone more local ?

Never mind the "expert" advice on here and the work you can do yourself a follow up would be useful to keep you on track.
		
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You don't need to be an 'expert' to spot the problem.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2017)

El Diablo said:



			Homer - for future lessons are you going back to Paul Foston for a follow up lesson or shared your video for him to take a look or working with someone more local ?

Never mind the "expert" advice on here and the work you can do yourself a follow up would be useful to keep you on track.
		
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The plan was to go back to Paul Foston in Kent in February/March. To be honest I feel a little lost at the moment. I seemed to have found something and was scoring well with what I had so how much do I really want to work on changing it completely? However the back has gone now and struggling. I do feel that I need to persevere with the shortening of the swing and the tempo but also feel there are bigger issues like the early extension. I do have a couple of lessons left with the local pro I use  and the temptation would be to use him. However Paul gave me some fairly extensive but simple advice and I think I owe it to him and GM to at least try and work through it a bit longer. I just need to be able to swing pain free and start again almost


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## chrisd (Dec 1, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The plan was to go back to Paul Foston in Kent in February/March. To be honest I feel a little lost at the moment. I seemed to have found something and was scoring well with what I had so how much do I really want to work on changing it completely? However the back has gone now and struggling. I do feel that I need to persevere with the shortening of the swing and the tempo but also feel there are bigger issues like the early extension. I do have a couple of lessons left with the local pro I use  and the temptation would be to use him. However Paul gave me some fairly extensive but simple advice and I think I owe it to him and GM to at least try and work through it a bit longer. I just need to be able to swing pain free and start again almost
		
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To be honest Homer, one of Smiffy's favourite sayings is "even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time" and that's how your swing seems to me.  I'm with the majority in that it looks ok going back and really poor down and could be contributing to the back issues. If i had the lesson from Paul Foston I'd stick exactly to his plan and you know,  as well as I do, that he is right in what he's asking you to do and the long term benefits you'd gain from sticking with it.


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## garyinderry (Dec 1, 2017)

why wait till march? 

if you feel unsure what to do.  go see paul now and call it a christmas treat.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 1, 2017)

chrisd said:



			To be honest Homer, one of Smiffy's favourite sayings is "even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time" and that's how your swing seems to me.  I'm with the majority in that it looks ok going back and really poor down and could be contributing to the back issues. If i had the lesson from Paul Foston I'd stick exactly to his plan and you know,  as well as I do, that he is right in what he's asking you to do and the long term benefits you'd gain from sticking with it.
		
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Exactly which is why I am resisting the lure of a local pro. I need a few weeks free if back pain, revisit the videos again and then go from there, To be honest the one thing Paul didn't seem to attack to much was shallowing the shaft. I knew before I started it would be a long haul and no quick fix especially with 30+ years of bad habits to break. I think getting the back right is the pressing aim and taking stock again on whether to see Paul earlier or not


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Exactly which is why I am resisting the lure of a local pro. I need a few weeks free if back pain, revisit the videos again and then go from there, To be honest the one thing Paul didn't seem to attack to much was shallowing the shaft. I knew before I started it would be a long haul and no quick fix especially with 30+ years of bad habits to break. I think getting the back right is the pressing aim and taking stock again on whether to see Paul earlier or not
		
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Does your local pro realise his pension pot has evaporated? The new GM fella did he have you doing new stuff? Why didnâ€™t the local fella, of which there are a few, spot the issues?


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## merv79 (Dec 1, 2017)

I would suggest getting yourself a TPI screening and investing some time in addressing physical and movement issues that will be contributing to your back problems and swing faults.

i would say that itâ€™s highly likely you are losing posture during your swing due to physical limitations and no matter how much money you spend and how many balls you hit, if your body is restricting a particular movement, then you are fighting a lost cause!


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## shortgame (Dec 1, 2017)

Let's imagine a patient came into your hospital, had a thorough consultation with a top specialist and was given a diagnosis and a treatment plan to follow and was then told to return for a followup

Then, said patient decided half way through to disregard the plan and instead to take advice off strangers on the internet

What would you think?


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## richart (Dec 1, 2017)

merv79 said:



			I would suggest getting yourself a TPI screening and investing some time in addressing physical and movement issues that will be contributing to your back problems and swing faults.

i would say that itâ€™s highly likely you are losing posture during your swing due to physical limitations and no matter how much money you spend and how many balls you hit, if your body is restricting a particular movement, then you are fighting a lost cause!
		
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 It sounds like you are suggesting Homer gives up.


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## ademac (Dec 1, 2017)

therod said:



			I think a history lesson for some might be in order 

Click to expand...

How do you mean?


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

ademac said:



			How do you mean?
		
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(Whispers) .....homergate 1-3 (was there a 4, I canâ€™t really remember) 
Homers little fan club need some context.....just Sayinâ€™. The search facility is your friend.


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

richart said:



 It sounds like you are suggesting Homer gives up.

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Andy is far too nice to even think that...me on the other hand!

Homie, you had a good run. Got down to 4, suffered amnesia, started playing again, plowing your own furrow etc etc. Had more injuries & illnesses than any other human person alive or dead. Golf is obviously a chore & maybe not for you. Maybe best you jack it in?

Mrs homer would thank you, you could give her all of your time, take her to all of the garden centres she could want to go to. In short, treat her like a princess, like she obviously deserves. You will thank us later !!


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## SammmeBee (Dec 1, 2017)

therod said:



			Andy is far too nice to even think that...me on the other hand!

Homie, you had a good run. Got down to 4, suffered amnesia, started playing again, plowing your own furrow etc etc. Had more injuries & illnesses than any other human person alive or dead. Golf is obviously a chore & maybe not for you. Maybe best you jack it in?

Mrs homer would thank you, you could give her all of your time, take her to all of the garden centres she could want to go to. In short, treat her like a princess, like she obviously deserves. You will thank us later !!
		
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This..........!!!!!!!!


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## Dogma (Dec 1, 2017)

Have you been to see a physio Homer?

You need to look after your back and get it sorted before even thinking about golf imho.


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## User20205 (Dec 1, 2017)

Dogma said:



			Have you been to see a psychiatrist Homer?

You need to look after your back and get it sorted before even thinking about golf imho.
		
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Thatâ€™s going a bit far??


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## Dasit (Dec 1, 2017)

Watching Homer's swing



Everything calm, all looks OK, standard stuff, all good, all calm........Then suddenly













THE QUICKEST BACK SWING IN THE WORLD


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## Smiffy (Dec 2, 2017)

richart said:



 It sounds like you are suggesting Homer gives up.

Click to expand...


I've been a member of the forum for 9 years. 
In those 9 years I haven't seen *any* improvement in Homers game, despite countless hours spent on the practice ground and having lessons with various pro's.
His handicap is going out, as is his age.
Whilst I admire his determination surely there comes a point when you have to resign yourself to the fact that you are not going to get any better?
I dread to think how much time, money and effort has been spent trying to polish this particular turd.
We have one round where the putting is good and he's cracked putting.
The next round the putting is woeful but the chipping is good, and he's cracked chipping.
A video of his best front 9 at Ascot and he didn't hit one green in regulation but he's cracked it!!
He has been told countless times to just go out and hit the ball, and he's agreed that that's what he's going to do.
But two months later we hear about some other bottle of snake oil being opened that's going to cure his woes.
My handicap is going out. But I am getting out of golf what I put in. I only play once a month now if I'm lucky, I never practice, I never warm up, etc. etc.
But if I was putting as much effort in as Homer has over the last nine years and kept seeing my handicap go out and living off the one round in a million where I score 38 points????
I'd give up. Seriously.


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## User101 (Dec 2, 2017)

What is "handicap going out" Never heard that saying in my life and I've been in and around golf for 45 years or so.


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## PhilTheFragger (Dec 2, 2017)

He means handicap increasing.

Letâ€™s ease up on the Homer bashing please,

He am what he am and we is what we is ðŸ‘


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## Smiffy (Dec 2, 2017)

Cabby said:



			What is "handicap going out" Never heard that saying in my life and I've been in and around golf for 45 years or so.
		
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What, behind the bar in the clubhouse?


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## Hobbit (Dec 2, 2017)

therod said:



			Yes but not the ears!!! I have one.
		
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Van Gogh had similar problems...


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## bluewolf (Dec 2, 2017)

Hey Homeslice. You can take this advice or not. What Foston had you working on is the best chance of improvement. Pretty much every fault on the downswing is a result of the overlong backswing. You're making all sorts of body movements to get the club head back to the ball because you lose control of it at the top. 

Slow down and shorten. Make that you're swing thought.....


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## shortgame (Dec 2, 2017)

merv79 said:



			I would suggest getting yourself a TPI screening and investing some time in addressing physical and movement issues that will be contributing to your back problems and swing faults.

i would say that itâ€™s highly likely you are losing posture during your swing due to physical limitations and no matter how much money you spend and how many balls you hit, if your body is restricting a particular movement, then you are fighting a lost cause!
		
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This is a very good point ðŸ‘


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## MartynB (Dec 2, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



			He means handicap increasing.

Letâ€™s ease up on the Homer bashing please,

He am what he am and we is what we is ï‘
		
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Well said. I post on a few forums where people put their swings up but not seen anyone get the at times sneering criticism homer gets, feels a bit like bullying to me.


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## Jensen (Dec 2, 2017)

MartynB said:



			Well said. I post on a few forums where people put their swings up but not seen anyone get the at times sneering criticism homer gets, feels a bit like bullying to me.
		
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Well said


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## User20205 (Dec 2, 2017)

MartynB said:



			Well said. I post on a few forums where people put their swings up but not seen anyone get the at times sneering criticism homer gets, feels a bit like bullying to me.
		
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As mentioned before, the search facility is your friend!


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## chrisd (Dec 2, 2017)

MartynB said:



			Well said. I post on a few forums where people put their swings up but not seen anyone get the at times sneering criticism homer gets, feels a bit like bullying to me.
		
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To be fair, Homer hasn't posted his swing for forum members to critique, he has posted on his own blog for the world to see. He is doing on course videos in the like of a Mark Crossfield and opening himself to comments that are, in the main, coming from guys who know him personally, have, in many cases, played with him,  and know the long term history of him and his self proclaimed obsession to reach single figures. 

The point everyone, including me, are making is that he has had a long lesson from a top 25 coach and then posts a video where he pretty much ignores the tips to better his game that he was taught,  in a GM freebie that most of us would love to have been selected for


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2017)

chrisd said:



			To be fair, Homer hasn't posted his swing for forum members to critique, he has posted on his own blog for the world to see. He is doing on course videos in the like of a Mark Crossfield and opening himself to comments that are, in the main, coming from guys who know him personally, have, in many cases, played with him,  and know the long term history of him and his self proclaimed obsession to reach single figures. 

The point everyone, including me, are making is that he has had a long lesson from a top 25 coach and then posts a video where he pretty much ignores the tips to better his game that he was taught,  in a GM freebie that most of us would love to have been selected for
		
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Not a case of ignoring. Just an inability to achieve what I have been set..yet. Once I get a chance to work regularly at the range again, I'm back to trying to get it shorter and work on the speed. From there, which after a 30+ year history of overswing will take time I have stuff to shallow. The video was merely a chance to get more content on the channel and if anyone watches and actually listens to what I say on it, I clearly say it bears no resemblance to what I was shown. I'm aware it isn't right but to say I'm ignoring the advice is widely off target. It's a long term change and will take time


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not a case of ignoring. Just an inability to achieve what I have been set..yet. Once I get a chance to work regularly at the range again, I'm back to trying to get it shorter and work on the speed. From there, which after a 30+ year history of overswing will take time I have stuff to shallow. The video was merely a chance to get more content on the channel and if anyone watches and actually listens to what I say on it, I clearly say it bears no resemblance to what I was shown. I'm aware it isn't right but to say I'm ignoring the advice is widely off target. It's a long term change and will take time
		
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You have a well documented injury which you have ignored today and risked your health.
Whatever your intentions are towards golf your health comes first.
Rest and start again in the New Year.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 2, 2017)

But surely by going back to what you were doing previously you're just further ingraining bad habits?


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## garyinderry (Dec 2, 2017)

tbf the swing looks better than it did before the GM lesson.  there is a difference for sure.


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## Fish (Dec 2, 2017)

bluewolf said:



			Hey Homeslice. You can take this advice or not. What Foston had you working on is the best chance of improvement. Pretty much every fault on the downswing is a result of the overlong backswing. You're making all sorts of body movements to get the club head back to the ball because you lose control of it at the top. 

Slow down and shorten. Make that you're swing thought.....
		
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This was Fostons frustration in the videod lessons, the practice swing would be ok but then once over the ball itâ€™s all or nothing with a too fast a takeaway, an over swing and then slows down to steer himself into his trademark finishing position at the expense of a poor strike and inconsistent ball shape. 

I think itâ€™s all too much and too far engrained and the bad habits are winning over all the lessons and all the practice sessions. I admire the dedication and commitment, but Iâ€™d just settle for being happy being out playing and enjoying my rounds and golf days with like minded people rather than putting up targets and pressure on myself that are and will only be detrimental to getting a lower handicap than is achievable.


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## chrisd (Dec 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not a case of ignoring. Just an inability to achieve what I have been set..yet. Once I get a chance to work regularly at the range again, I'm back to trying to get it shorter and work on the speed. From there, which after a 30+ year history of overswing will take time I have stuff to shallow. The video was merely a chance to get more content on the channel and if anyone watches and actually listens to what I say on it, I clearly say it bears no resemblance to what I was shown. I'm aware it isn't right but to say I'm ignoring the advice is widely off target. It's a long term change and will take time
		
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Honestly Homer, if this is the case I really struggle to see why you did the video and posted it knowing everyone would see it and comment.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Honestly Homer, if this is the case I really struggle to see why you did the video and posted it knowing everyone would see it and comment.
		
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Why not? I hadn't done video log on my channel for a while, had had a good round a few days earlier and wanted to simply put new content up. As I mentioned already (and you've ignored) I said clearly on the footage that the swing is still nowhere near where I want to get to with the stuff I was shown. The simple answer is to have any chance of growing the channel further you need to be putting content up. As it went well score wise it was a bonus but I never made it out to say this is me playing well with the new swing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why not? I hadn't done video log on my channel for a while, had had a good round a few days earlier and wanted to simply put new content up. As I mentioned already (and you've ignored) I said clearly on the footage that the swing is still nowhere near where I want to get to with the stuff I was shown. The simple answer is to have any chance of growing the channel further you need to be putting content up. As it went well score wise it was a bonus but I never made it out to say this is me playing well with the new swing.
		
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Regardless of good or bad golf, why risk further injury?


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## User20205 (Dec 2, 2017)

Whatâ€™s the motivation for wanting to grow the channel?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2017)

Bored now. Going round in circles and not going to justify every thing I do to all and sundry , such as positing content on a youtube channel, why I played golf etc. As it happened the back was feeling much better that weekend and the Monday and I wasn't in significant pain. I wanted to put content up and it's something I actually enjoy doing over and above the goals I've laid out on there. Goodnight all


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bored now. Going round in circles and not going to justify every thing I do to all and sundry , such as positing content on a youtube channel, why I played golf etc. As it happened the back was feeling much better that weekend and the Monday and I wasn't in significant pain. I wanted to put content up and it's something I actually enjoy doing over and above the goals I've laid out on there. Goodnight all
		
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Apologies for being concerned about your health! I wonâ€™t mention it again.


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## User20205 (Dec 2, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bored now. Going round in circles and not going to justify every thing I do to all and sundry , such as positing content on a youtube channel, why I played golf etc. As it happened the back was feeling much better that weekend and the Monday and I wasn't in significant pain. I wanted to put content up and it's something I actually enjoy doing over and above the goals I've laid out on there. Goodnight all
		
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I just donâ€™t get the need for attention, why put yourself above the parapet, itâ€™s no surprise with your history that people are skeptical of your motivation


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