# Panic buying fuel



## adam6177 (Sep 24, 2021)

Evening all

I was due to be going to a golf day tomorrow but am low on fuel and not sure I have enough to get there and back.  Stations near me are cleared out so I may have to take my chances and see if it make it or not.

My wife was on the red line and managed to get some on her way home from work.  A lady in front of her filled up her car and then got multiple cannisters from her boot and filled those up too....

So, question is.... Have you been an panic bought today? If so, did you need it or did you just top up to make sure you had a full tank?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 24, 2021)

The juggernaut has a full tank since last Sunday I think I filled up 

I was going to fill up this Sunday on way to work as Mrs wants the small car to take eldest swimming but I did early

Glad I did because idiots in this country can't be trusted to behave


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## fundy (Sep 24, 2021)

no, theres no shortage just people acting like idiots, whipped up by our joke of a media yet again

will fill up on an empty forecourt next week


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## Orikoru (Sep 24, 2021)

No, I actually NEED petrol now and my local station has bloody sold out! Morons everywhere in this country.


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## IanM (Sep 24, 2021)

I went into Chepstow early afternoon to buy some stuff... had 80 miles of fuel in the car.

Filled up as I do every Friday, petrol station next to St Pierre...  Didn't need to queue. Straight in, straight out.   Can't speak for later during rush hour.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 24, 2021)

Walked past Sainsburys today morons had blocked the road queuing  for fuel.
Ambulance could not get through to Alder Hey so they could have cost some young child their life.
Absolute morons ,especially the ones blocking the carriageway.
Van driver was trying to get them to move but they just ignored him.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2021)

Had 25 miles of range indicated in my car earlier today so really needed to go and get some petrol. Fortunately we had three part full 5 litre containers in the garage from Mrs Colch's work generator so I put that in my car. Got my range up to nearly 100 miles which will do me until the panic buying has calmed down and I can go and fill up. Having seen photos of the queues at all our local petrol stations I'm glad I didn't have to go and try and get some today.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 24, 2021)

I never leave my car with much less than 1/4 tank, which is good for about 120 miles. 

I don't get why people leave it till virtually empty every time. Much like my wife does. She had to go get some fuel earlier as she's got an early start and an hours drive in the morning. 

The nearest petrol station has run out. Tesco was queing miles, but managed to get some at the 3rd place which was pretty quite.


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## DanFST (Sep 24, 2021)

Going to go tonight to try and find some. I don't have enough to get me to and from my away match tomorrow!


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## backwoodsman (Sep 24, 2021)

Got about 150 miles in the tank - and no real need to go anywhere (except the golf club) so probably got a week before I need to get some. Hopefully the panic has eased by then.


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## Lump (Sep 24, 2021)

Filled up 4 times this week. Had no issues so far.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 24, 2021)

As always I feel sorry for those who use their car constantly for work and need a lot of fuel 

As opposed to those who have headed out to fill up cars that move once a month


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 24, 2021)

Heading north from Glasgow today and there were queues in all the petrol stations I came to - but none queued out of the forecourt. Needed to fill up as was nearly empty and after a fairly short wait at a station outside Dumbarton I got what I needed…but by time I was done there was quite a queue back onto the road.


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## HeftyHacker (Sep 24, 2021)

I kind of did but more because my missus' car was nearly empty so thought I may as well brim it rather than the usual 20 quid I chuck in. 

Was fairly busy but not blacking the road busy, was in and out in under 10 mins.


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## Dando (Sep 24, 2021)

Lump said:



			Filled up 4 times this week. Had no issues so far.
		
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so it’s your fault! 🤣


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## larmen (Sep 24, 2021)

We 'got lucky' and filled up last Saturday anyway,. Must have driven 15 to 20 miles since, and we will up again in November, maybe end of October.
I went to Tesco yesterday and when I drove past teh petrol bit there was a bit of a queue, but when I finished shopping it looked just normal.

Personally I am more concerned with the CO2 shortage and soft drinks.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 24, 2021)




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## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2021)

larmen said:



			We 'got lucky' and filled up last Saturday anyway,. Must have driven 15 to 20 miles since, and we will up again in November, maybe end of October.
I went to Tesco yesterday and when I drove past teh petrol bit there was a bit of a queue, but when I finished shopping it looked just normal.

*Personally I am more concerned with the CO2 shortage and soft drinks.*

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So am I. Went out the other day to get everything I needed to make strawberry mojitos. The sparkling water section was almost empty. Fortunately managed to get the last two bottles. Disaster averted.


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## Dando (Sep 24, 2021)

I've been queueing for over an hour and I've finally reached one of the pumps, I'm getting quite emotional. I'm filling up here 🤣🤣


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## pauljames87 (Sep 24, 2021)

One company introducing a limit of £30 per customer 

So that's about 20 litres 

Not ideal


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## Beezerk (Sep 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			One company introducing a limit of £30 per customer

So that's about 20 litres

Not ideal
		
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Hope not, I do over 1,000 miles a week with work, I'll be fecked.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 24, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Hope not, I do over 1,000 miles a week with work, I'll be fecked.
		
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Well no limit to how many times you can go

So just have to go every day


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 24, 2021)

Couple of Sheffield lads in our accommodation tell us that there has bit a bit of fighting over fuel at a service station in Sheffield.  Nuts. The country is going to hell in a handcart…🙄


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## GreiginFife (Sep 24, 2021)

I bought fuel today but there was no panic. I put fuel in every Friday. 
It was busier than usual but no more than a 2 minute wait for the pump in front to clear. 

That will see me through to next Friday.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Sep 24, 2021)

Not seen any evidence of panic buying around my way either, must be a thing in big towns and cities.


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## Mudball (Sep 24, 2021)

Time for an electric car… don’t need to queue behind idiots …  no shortage of cheap gas or leccy …


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 24, 2021)

They are still doing it around here - 11pm and still queues into the garage. It’s just embarrassing and some people that really need the petrol are going to be stuck because of the actions of selfish idiots


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 24, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Time for an electric car… don’t need to queue behind idiots …  *no shortage of cheap gas* or leccy …
		
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Not sure that's quite correct. Have you seen the rise in gas prices recently?


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## DanFST (Sep 24, 2021)

Just got in after a couple hours driving about, everything was empty. Tesco had fuel but queues were about half a mile long. Thankfully there’s a new service station that opened up this week. Was only queuing for 30 minutes.

£30 limit tho, so will get me back from my away match tomorrow but not much more.


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## cliveb (Sep 24, 2021)

Whenever the media reports on some possible minor glitch in the supply of anything (pasta, toilet rolls, fuel, etc), there's a whole legion of intellectually challenged members of the public who will turn it into a genuine shortage.

The media needs to agree to bury this type of news to protect us all from the irrational reaction of these numpties. A kind of self-imposed D-notice for the good of the nation.


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## spongebob59 (Sep 24, 2021)

Local Sainsbury's ran out at lunchtime, just seen on local social media there are q's waiting for the tanker to turn up?

Complete and utter twats.


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## larmen (Sep 25, 2021)

cliveb said:



			Whenever the media reports on some possible minor glitch in the supply of anything (pasta, toilet rolls, fuel, etc), there's a whole legion of intellectually challenged members of the public who will turn it into a genuine shortage.
		
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At least with fuel there is a kind of limit how much people can buy. You can buy hundred rolls of toilet paper or packs of pasta, but once the car is filed up it’s mostly it for petrol. Until it’s worth to fill up again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2021)

Local Morrison’s had people queuing from 5am this morning and last night a fight broke out with people filling containers as well


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## funkycoldmedina (Sep 25, 2021)

A fine example of the "I'm alright jack' culture in the UK. 
It's lamentable how we've turned into such a selfish nation.


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## chellie (Sep 25, 2021)

Morons filling up here as well and blocking the road yesterdy. Bus services had to be diverted which meant it missed about six stops. Pity the poor people trying to use a bus to get to work or home.


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## Imurg (Sep 25, 2021)

The ultimate karma....
Dozens of cars blocking the road waiting for the tanker to deliver.....tanker can't get to the forecourt as it can't get through the queue of cars waiting for the tanker to arrive..
I think its time for an Apocalypse  - the world has gone to rat poo..


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## Fromtherough (Sep 25, 2021)

I’m meant to be travelling to the Manchester office on Tuesday for a really pointless face to face meeting. To make things worse I was asked to pick some others up - to “provide more vfm” than the usual train journey. If this lunacy keeps up, I’ve got a perfect excuse not to go.


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## IainP (Sep 25, 2021)

Was out early evening yesterday and didn't spot any silliness at the two I passed, although I didn't stop. Heading in  the M25 direction today so will see what that brings. Perhaps I'll regret not topping up yesterday.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 25, 2021)

Forget about waiting for drivers from the EU to arrive, get the army and RAF drivers in TODAY so that the message is that there are now sufficient drivers…so public can be reassured there is no need to top up and so can stop this panicking immediately.  But actions not just words TODAY.


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## Dando (Sep 25, 2021)

Took the dog for a walk and thought I’d try and top up on my way back.

My local has run out and the next 2 nearest had stupid queues so I came home.

don’t really need the car this weekend so it’s not a major issue


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## Mudball (Sep 25, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Forget about waiting for drivers from the EU to arrive, get the army and RAF drivers in TODAY so that the message is that there are now sufficient drivers…so public can be reassured there is no need to top up and so can stop this panicking immediately.  But actions not just words TODAY.
		
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What a predictable solution (not from you personally) .. How many drivers does the forces have? They seem to be doing ambulance duty, running the bins round, Covid testing and now petrol tankers.. what’s next for them?


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## Mudball (Sep 25, 2021)

On the bright side.. Son had to be dropped off for sports this AM, Mrs has to go to work. Usually I would do the sports round. Low fuel means, she got up early, dropped him off and then went to work.  Drove past vehicles queuing outside petrol stations at 7am. 

On the plus side..  One less car on the road, I get a lie in, better for the environment etc etc.. where is the Brit grit..


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Mudball said:



			What a predictable solution (not from you personally) .. How many drivers does the forces have? They seem to be doing ambulance duty, running the bins round, Covid testing and now petrol tankers.. what’s next for them?
		
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Whatever is needed, one of the key purposes of the armed forces has been to support the country in whatever it needs at that moment 

Unfortunately because of some idiots in charge we need support in more sectors 

Thank goodness we didnt cut their numbers aswell 

Oh wait


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## IanM (Sep 25, 2021)

A few deliveries late, so the usual parts of the media whip it up into a crisis and the "hard of thinking " react.

In cupboards in certain parts of the country there must be tons of unused pasta, panic bought before first lockdown.

Probably the same folk.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

IanM said:



			A few deliveries late, so the usual parts of the media whip it up into a crisis and the "hard of thinking " react.

In cupboards in certain parts of the country there must be tons of unused pasta, panic bought before first lockdown.

Probably the same folk.
		
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Can we just ban tabloids? Surely this would solve 90% of issues


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2021)

At our local Tesco the queue for petrol is all the way back to the main road but they have to cross the lane of traffic exiting the main carpark. I went and got some shopping and then on the way out simply drove into the petrol station missing out all of the queue.


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## Bassfisher (Sep 25, 2021)

I’m a commercial fisherman, I buy 80L diesel from Sainsbury’s before each trip o run my boat, not this weekend , ridiculous queues everywhere, I’ll have the weekend off and watch the Ryder cup! ( if I can tolerate those shouting, booing morons)


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Bassfisher said:



			I’m a commercial fisherman, I buy 80L diesel from Sainsbury’s before each trip o run my boat, not this weekend , ridiculous queues everywhere, I’ll have the weekend off and watch the Ryder cup! ( *if I can tolerate those shouting, booing morons*)
		
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Why would the house of commons be at the ryder cup?


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 25, 2021)

cliveb said:



			Whenever the media reports on some possible minor glitch in the supply of anything (pasta, toilet rolls, fuel, etc), there's a whole legion of intellectually challenged members of the public who will turn it into a genuine shortage.

The media needs to agree to bury this type of news to protect us all from the irrational reaction of these numpties. A kind of self-imposed D-notice for the good of the nation.
		
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Exactly this.  It may be argued that this situation could come under" National security" in it broadest terms. Thus qualifying for a D notice?
It sickened me to see the media jumping on this looming situation almost with glee. Where is their sense of responsibility-( to the nation, that is, not to themselves).?


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## fundy (Sep 25, 2021)




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## clubchamp98 (Sep 25, 2021)

fundy said:



View attachment 38641

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You must have good eyesight.
Frosted glass and it’s dark!
I like your wallpaper.


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## Canary_Yellow (Sep 25, 2021)

Surely it will be short lived? People aren’t doing extra driving (except for going out to find fuel!) there’s no long-term change in demand, just a temporary shift in buying patterns


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## larmen (Sep 25, 2021)

Are prices going up with current demand?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Surely it will be short lived? People aren’t doing extra driving (except for going out to find fuel!) there’s no long-term change in demand, just a temporary shift in buying patterns
		
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Well except those who left home to get fuel and then got stuck in a queue leaving their engine running 

We passed 5 stations on way to wifes grandads today .. all out of fuel with queues outside 

What didn't surprise me was how little people will drop their speed to use less fuel .. continue to bomb past (over the limit) then moan when they run out 

Mrs said to me "I think I will have to take her swimming in this car tomorrow " (the big one) even tho it's harder for her to park I can drive the 50 mile to work on the electric and not run the big car down as we bearly use it so providing it's just our weekend usage and no work it lasts about 2-3 months on a tank (filled up last Sunday)


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Exactly this.  It may be argued that this situation could come under" National security" in it broadest terms. Thus qualifying for a D notice?
It sickened me to see the media jumping on this looming situation almost with glee. Where is their sense of responsibility-( to the nation, that is, not to themselves).?
		
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The Alarmist media need reigning in. They’ve had a good run over the past few months, battering us relentlessly around the head with relentless doom and gloom about Covid. Still it goes on. ‘Plan for the worst’, wails The Mirror. ‘It’s back to panic stations!’ screeches The Mail.

They’ve positively relished it, but Covid’s become a bit of a broken record now as far as working up a sense of alarm is concerned. Our senses have become dulled, so now they’ve got to find other things in their attempts to scare us.
Various headlines I’ve seen include….

-‘Prepare for winter of discontent’; The Guardian 

-‘UK energy crisis to drive up cost of living’; The i

-‘We’ll meat again: we’re set to run out of pork, lamb, chicken and turkey in just
days’; The Daily Star

-‘Energy firms will be left to collapse’; The Times

- ‘Asteroid extinction event next month: Adonis blames Brexit’; The Daily Yell (I made that one up😁)

It’s eco-crisis, it’s housing crisis, it’s transport crisis, it’s NHS crisis. It CO2 crisis! No wonder so many people have mental health issues, (which itself is a crisis because of crisis of the NHS backlog caused by Covid crisis)

It’s all so exhausting I think I should go back to bed 😄


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

I am very interested to see if next week we have an even bigger upturn of ridership on the tube and buses as people try to limit their use of cars..

Wouldn't surprise me.. people feel unsafe to use the network until it costs them more to use the car again


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## bluewolf (Sep 25, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			The Alarmist media need reigning in. They’ve had a good run over the past few months, battering us relentlessly around the head with relentless doom and gloom about Covid. Still it goes on. ‘Plan for the worst’, wails The Mirror. ‘It’s back to panic stations!’ screeches The Mail.

They’ve positively relished it, but Covid’s become a bit of a broken record now as far as working up a sense of alarm is concerned. Our senses have become dulled, so now they’ve got to find other things in their attempts to scare us.
Various headlines I’ve seen include….

-‘Prepare for winter of discontent’; The Guardian

-‘UK energy crisis to drive up cost of living’; The i

-‘We’ll meat again: we’re set to run out of pork, lamb, chicken and turkey in just
days’; The Daily Star

-‘Energy firms will be left to collapse’; The Times

- ‘Asteroid extinction event next month: Adonis blames Brexit’; The Daily Yell (I made that one up😁)

It’s eco-crisis, it’s housing crisis, it’s transport crisis, it’s NHS crisis. It CO2 crisis! No wonder so many people have mental health issues, (which itself is a crisis because of crisis of the NHS backlog caused by Covid crisis)

It’s all so exhausting I think I should go back to bed 😄
		
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Almost makes you wonder why millions of people still buy the printed media eh?

Once again, The Media only serves up what the majority want to read/hear. They’d go out of business otherwise (except the BBC obviously). Once people stop relishing sensationalist headlines then we’ll get the Media that so many in here seem to want.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 25, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Almost makes you wonder why millions of people still buy the printed media eh?

Once again, The Media only serves up what the majority want to read/hear. They’d go out of business otherwise (except the BBC obviously). Once people stop relishing sensationalist headlines then we’ll get the Media that so many in here seem to want.
		
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I don't think it's just the printed media, Joe Publics desire to be the first to post anything on social media is also driving it.


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## IanM (Sep 25, 2021)

Next door neighbour bought fuel at a very busy station in Bristol on his way home.

Man in front of him paid a bill of.... £13   
Filled up to avoid shortages apparently!  Mmmm


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## JamesR (Sep 25, 2021)

I did get some last evening. But it wasn’t panic buying, as I actually needed some, being as I was down to 20 miles remaining & my journey today is 25 miles each way.


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## bluewolf (Sep 25, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't think it's just the printed media, Joe Publics desire to be the first to post anything on social media is also driving it.
		
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Exactly. We’re quick to remove the blame from exactly where it actually lies. There is a significant minority of people in the country who are absolute weapons of mass stupidity. This has been evidenced widely over the last 5 years. 

Blame them, not the companies that feed off them.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Pay day weekend brings out worst in people


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## Orikoru (Sep 25, 2021)

So, guess who filled up with petrol at 2:30am? Yep.

Once the Ryder Cup had finished I decided I'd try my luck at the local 24hr stations to see if I could fill up, since I was nearly empty and wouldn't be able to drive to football on Sunday if I couldn't get any. Wife came with me since she knows more about where the local garages are. We drove round and tried six different garages which were ALL empty. We had given up and were on our way home when we passed the 2nd one we tried again, only this time there was a tanker there restocking it and ten cars queuing outside. So I guess we got lucky and decided queue up with them. Took another 20 odd minutes for them to finishing restocking it, and then a further 20-30 minutes to get through the queue and fill up. Got home not long before 3am. 😴

On the plus side a full tank usually lasts me almost a month so hopefully this rubbish has blown over by then.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So, guess who filled up with petrol at 2:30am? Yep.

Once the Ryder Cup had finished I decided I'd try my luck at the local 24hr stations to see if I could fill up, since I was nearly empty and wouldn't be able to drive to football on Sunday if I couldn't get any. Wife came with me since she knows more about where the local garages are. We drove round and tried six different garages which were ALL empty. We had given up and were on our way home when we passed the 2nd one we tried again, only this time there was a tanker there restocking it and ten cars queuing outside. So I guess we got lucky and decided queue up with them. Took another 20 odd minutes for them to finishing restocking it, and then a further 20-30 minutes to get through the queue and fill up. Got home not long before 3am. 😴

On the plus side a full tank usually lasts me almost a month so hopefully this rubbish has blown over by then.
		
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It will blow over within a week

This micro closure of forecourts have been happening for ages and normally doesn't matter but tell people there is any kind of issue and they lose their minds


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## larmen (Sep 25, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Exactly. We’re quick to remove the blame from exactly where it actually lies. There is a significant minority of people in the country who are absolute weapons of mass stupidity. This has been evidenced widely over the last 5 years.

Blame them, not the companies that feed off them.
		
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There is no fool shortage.  (Stolen from the internet)


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

larmen said:



			There is no fool shortage.  (Stolen from the internet)
		
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Maybe we can tell people there is a common sense shortage next time..


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't think it's just the printed media, Joe Publics desire to be the first to post anything on social media is also driving it.
		
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Yes photos of people filling Jerry cans with fuel all over FB this morning. Whipping up a lynch mob hysteria.


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## Mudball (Sep 25, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			The Alarmist media need reigning in. They’ve had a good run over the past few months, battering us relentlessly around the head with relentless doom and gloom about Covid. Still it goes on. ‘Plan for the worst’, wails The Mirror. ‘It’s back to panic stations!’ screeches The Mail.

They’ve positively relished it, but Covid’s become a bit of a broken record now as far as working up a sense of alarm is concerned. Our senses have become dulled, so now they’ve got to find other things in their attempts to scare us.
Various headlines I’ve seen include….

-‘Prepare for winter of discontent’; The Guardian 

-‘UK energy crisis to drive up cost of living’; The i

-‘We’ll meat again: we’re set to run out of pork, lamb, chicken and turkey in just
days’; The Daily Star

-‘Energy firms will be left to collapse’; The Times

- ‘Asteroid extinction event next month: Adonis blames Brexit’; The Daily Yell (I made that one up😁)

It’s eco-crisis, it’s housing crisis, it’s transport crisis, it’s NHS crisis. It CO2 crisis! No wonder so many people have mental health issues, (which itself is a crisis because of crisis of the NHS backlog caused by Covid crisis)

It’s all so exhausting I think I should go back to bed 😄
		
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Ignore it… back in the day someone called it Project Fear….   There is nothing to fear but fear itself


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Ignore it… back in the day someone called it Project Fear….   There is nothing to fear but fear itself
		
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Project spot on no? Rises prices.. food and fuel shortages


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			So, guess who filled up with petrol at 2:30am? Yep.

Once the Ryder Cup had finished I decided I'd try my luck at the local 24hr stations to see if I could fill up, since I was nearly empty and wouldn't be able to drive to football on Sunday if I couldn't get any. Wife came with me since she knows more about where the local garages are. We drove round and tried six different garages which were ALL empty. We had given up and were on our way home when we passed the 2nd one we tried again, only this time there was a tanker there restocking it and ten cars queuing outside. So I guess we got lucky and decided queue up with them. Took another 20 odd minutes for them to finishing restocking it, and then a further 20-30 minutes to get through the queue and fill up. Got home not long before 3am. 😴

On the plus side a full tank usually lasts me almost a month so hopefully this rubbish has blown over by then.
		
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I'm pleased for you...but please consider those who have a petrol station near to them and have to put up with the 24hr rush hour they now have due to everyone wanting their tank full, often with their engines running and music going to "entertain" them


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## Orikoru (Sep 25, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I'm pleased for you...but please consider those who have a petrol station near to them and have to put up with the 24hr rush hour they now have due to everyone wanting their tank full, often with their engines running and music going to "entertain" them

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I turned my engine off while I was waiting. I mean, I didn't have any bloody petrol left so it made sense. 😂


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I turned my engine off while I was waiting. I mean, I didn't have any bloody petrol left so it made sense. 😂
		
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Been sent this by so many people it's unreal


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			I turned my engine off while I was waiting. I mean, I didn't have any bloody petrol left so it made sense. 😂
		
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You're one of the few then


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## Orikoru (Sep 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



View attachment 38645


Been sent this by so many people it's unreal
		
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Just wait until there's a media induced electricity shortage!


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 25, 2021)

Are the BBC deliberately trolling those queueing for petrol with their choice of reporter?


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 25, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Just wait until there's a media induced electricity shortage!
		
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Or the "Protect the fireflies" group prtest or  copper thieves start taking out substations for the copper and power cuts are about.


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Project spot on no? Rises prices.. food and fuel shortages
		
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That’s it exactly, the government allow the media to make alarming claims so they can “fix them” for us, as Teddy Roosevelt once eloquently said “When you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.”


I know sheeple are the problem responding to the media dog whistle but the MSM live on the motto of “Bad News is Good News”, and then distance themselves from the ensuing chaos they inevitably cause.

Probably all part of The Great Reset😉


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## stefanovic (Sep 25, 2021)

Petrol rationining from now to Christmas is on the cards.
We even had petrol coupons in the 1974 crisis when there were half the number of cars.
In 1972 the lights went out, so stock up now on candles.
Don't wait for the Illuminati to turn the lights back on.


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## CliveW (Sep 25, 2021)

It doesn't appear to be a problem here. I buy my papers and milk from our local petrol station as we don't have local shops. No queues, petrol/diesel delivered this morning and another scheduled for the beginning of the week. I filled the car at the beginning of the week before all the hype, so good for over 700 miles.


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## DaveR (Sep 25, 2021)

Dando said:



			Took the dog for a walk and thought I’d try and top up on my way back.

My local has run out and the next 2 nearest had stupid queues so I came home.

don’t really need the car this weekend so it’s not a major issue
		
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"Topping up"? So you're the problem then.


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## AliMc (Sep 25, 2021)

CliveW said:



			It doesn't appear to be a problem here. I buy my papers and milk from our local petrol station as we don't have local shops. No queues, petrol/diesel delivered this morning and another scheduled for the beginning of the week. I filled the car at the beginning of the week before all the hype, so good for over 700 miles.
		
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But queues apparently in Braehead, Livingston and Aberdeen, madness


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## DaveR (Sep 25, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			At our local Tesco the queue for petrol is all the way back to the main road but they have to cross the lane of traffic exiting the main carpark. I went and got some shopping and then on the way out simply drove into the petrol station missing out all of the queue.
		
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Nice one, nothing like sticking up 2 fingers to all those people patiently queuing 👍


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			That’s it exactly, the government allow the media to make alarming claims so they can “fix them” for us, as Teddy Roosevelt once eloquently said “When you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.”


I know sheeple are the problem responding to the media dog whistle but the MSM live on the motto of “Bad News is Good News”, and then distance themselves from the ensuing chaos they inevitably cause.

Probably all part of The Great Reset😉
		
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What gets me is the short sighted members of the general public lap it up as great management by those above saving us rather than wow how have they let it get this bad


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## IanM (Sep 25, 2021)

Its like anything.   If folk change their buying pattern....

Self induced issue.  Nice one press.   Its as if they have an agenda 

As for the government "allowing" the press to do it, that's silly.  Who gets the flack for the situation?


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## CliveW (Sep 25, 2021)

AliMc said:



			But queues apparently in Braehead, Livingston and Aberdeen, madness
		
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Is it an urban problem?


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## Mudball (Sep 25, 2021)

Received via WhatsApp Funny if true (other media outlets are also available)


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## BiMGuy (Sep 25, 2021)

Funny how no one has voted yes!


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 25, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Cynically, the government get to blame the media and the public for their pretty obvious response to a crisis instead of their own gross ineptitude for causing the whole shitshow in the first place!
		
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You can't blame BoJo the Clown........


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Funny how no one has voted yes!
		
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No one panic buys fuel and no one is a slow player! 🤔


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Funny how no one has voted yes!
		
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I filled the car up last weekend as it had 20 miles left in it, and filled the van up thursday evening on the way home, admittedly I had to put VPower diesel in it at £152.9 a litre but I needed a tank full to last me 4 days of working.


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Cynically, the government get to blame the media and the public for their pretty obvious response to a crisis instead of their own gross ineptitude for causing the whole shitshow in the first place!
		
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There is no crisis. Stop saying crisis!! 😂


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## Dando (Sep 25, 2021)

DaveR said:



			"Topping up"? So you're the problem then.
		
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🤡

I've got 40 mile range left and was
Going to put £10 in to see me through the week as we’re away next weekend and so will fill up then.

Is that ok with you?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Madness at the petrol station


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

Kaz said:



			Cynically, the government get to blame the media and the public for their pretty obvious response to a crisis instead of their own gross ineptitude for causing the whole shitshow in the first place!
		
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Yes  God forbid that the public should accept any responsibility for their stupidity!

And if the other fuel companies do not have the same problem how come the Government are to blame for the specific problems of Texaco and Esso?


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Yes  God forbid that the public should accept any responsibility for their stupidity!

And if the other fuel companies do not have the same problem how come the Government are to blame for the specific problems of Texaco and Esso?
		
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The government are not to blame for anything, there is a EU shortage of HGV drivers, (most HGV drivers cannot drive tankers anyway) 

So who’s fault is it then?

Could be the younger generation – the hard-done-by Millennials and Gen Zs, who wouldn’t be seen dead in a blue-collar working class career. 

For them it must be a job in media studies, become a TV celeb, or a YouTube influencer. Let someone else do all the heavy lifting and moving.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 25, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			The government are not to blame for anything, there is a EU shortage of HGV drivers, (most HGV drivers cannot drive tankers anyway)

So who’s fault is it then?

Could be the younger generation – the hard-done-by Millennials and Gen Zs, who wouldn’t be seen dead in a blue-collar working class career.

For them it must be a job in media studies, become a TV celeb, or a YouTube influencer. Let someone else do all the heavy lifting and moving.
		
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Or maybe its the Boomers who took all the money and pulled up the ladder behind them?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Or maybe its the Boomers who took all the money and pulled up the ladder behind them?
		
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Well  as a Boomer I can only say that someone else must have had  my share.

Like the majority of my generation I did not, contrary to popular belief, have the benefit of a Final Salary Pension Scheme and spent  a fortune willingly  supporting two sons through university. 

So if you would be kind enough to point me in the general direction of this mythical money pot I would be most grateful.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Well  as a Boomer I can only say that someone else must have had  my share.

Like the majority of my generation I did not, contrary to popular belief, have the benefit of a Final Salary Pension Scheme and spent  a fortune willingly  supporting two sons through university.

So if you would be kind enough to point me in the general direction of this mythical money pot I would be most grateful.
		
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I will when someone can point me in the direction of some evidence supporting the suggestion that younger generations are lazy work shy. Contrary to popular belief, it is my experience that the over 50s are more work shy and incompetent than the youngsters.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I will when someone can point me in the direction of some evidence supporting the suggestion that younger generations are lazy work shy. Contrary to popular belief, it is my experience that the over 50s are more work shy and incompetent than the youngsters.
		
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Well  as a relative of mine owns a logistics company I  can only say that he doesn't find any interest among the younger generation to be trained as HGV  drivers or other manual occupations. 

No shortage of applicants for IT/admin positions regardless of many not having relevant qualifications or experience.


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## Mudball (Sep 25, 2021)

This country has gone mad…. there is a queue to get into our local Morrisons petrol station. About 30 cars all the way back to the main roundabout… a lady with a placard ‘No diesel’ is turning away people from the roundabout.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

Brilliant drive home.. m25 instead of a13.. junction 28 closed due to petrol station on the roundabout out of fuel and idiots queuing

And guess what? They queue for the closed junction 

Morons


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## DaveR (Sep 25, 2021)

Dando said:



			🤡

I've got 40 mile range left and was
Going to put £10 in to see me through the week as we’re away next weekend and so will fill up then.

Is that ok with you?
		
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No worries, your post suggested to me that you had fuel but were topping your tank back up to full.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 25, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			The Alarmist media need reigning in. They’ve had a good run over the past few months, battering us relentlessly around the head with relentless doom and gloom about Covid. Still it goes on. ‘Plan for the worst’, wails The Mirror. ‘It’s back to panic stations!’ screeches The Mail.

They’ve positively relished it, but Covid’s become a bit of a broken record now as far as working up a sense of alarm is concerned. Our senses have become dulled, so now they’ve got to find other things in their attempts to scare us.
Various headlines I’ve seen include….

-‘Prepare for winter of discontent’; The Guardian

-‘UK energy crisis to drive up cost of living’; The i

-‘We’ll meat again: we’re set to run out of pork, lamb, chicken and turkey in just
days’; The Daily Star

-‘Energy firms will be left to collapse’; The Times

- ‘Asteroid extinction event next month: Adonis blames Brexit’; The Daily Yell (I made that one up😁)

It’s eco-crisis, it’s housing crisis, it’s transport crisis, it’s NHS crisis. It CO2 crisis! No wonder so many people have mental health issues, (which itself is a crisis because of crisis of the NHS backlog caused by Covid crisis)

It’s all so exhausting I think I should go back to bed 😄
		
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You do understand that this is the same alarmist media that has screamed headlines over the years at all things they dont like or think outrageous…the same media that tries to make us all angry over the slightest thing.  You can’t pick and choose when you want the free press and media to be shouting and when you‘d rather they kept quiet.  Besides in this instance the PM made a pronouncement - surely it is absolutely responsible of the media to report that pronouncement and why it was made.

Sorry - but this whole thread verges and teeters on the political …. I hope I have simply made a point in defence of the media reporting of this; and that this is not deemed a political post as I do not make any comment explicit or implied whatsoever in support or in criticism of the words of our PM in this context.  Just that our PM made a pronouncement on a very significant matter of importance to the public.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Or maybe its the Boomers who took all the money and pulled up the ladder behind them?
		
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Many of them grew up in real poverty and then just did what they could to get by, life wasn't all beer and skittles.   Do you honestly believe these 'Boomers' probably including your parents made a conscious effort to take all the money and pull up the ladder, Really!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You do understand that this is the same alarmist media that has screamed headlines over the years at all things they dont like or think outrageous…the same media that tries to make us all angry over the slightest thing.  You can’t pick and choose when you want the free press and media to be shouting and when you‘d rather they kept quiet.  Besides in this instance the PM made a pronouncement - surely it is absolutely responsible of the media to report that pronouncement and why it was made.

Sorry - but this whole thread verges and teeters on the political …. I hope I have simply made a point in defence of the media reporting of this; and that this is not deemed a political post as I do not make any comment explicit or implied whatsoever in support or in criticism of the words of our PM in this context.  Just that our PM made a pronouncement on a very significant matter of importance to the public.
		
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I'm afraid  that I fail to see anything that the PM has said that would prompt or encourage the panic buying of fuel.

And I  speak as one who is not supportive of the current Government but who does think that it is time the public were held responsible for their own stupidity.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 25, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Many of them grew up in real poverty and then just did what they could to get by, life wasn't all beer and skittles.   Do you honestly believe these 'Boomers' probably including your parents made a conscious effort to take all the money and pull up the ladder, Really!
		
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Of course not. 

My comment was just to show how rediculous sweeping generalisations are. 

Seems it's ok to label an entire generation as lazy. Doesn't surprise me on here.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Of course not.

My comment was just to show how rediculous sweeping generalisations are.

Seems it's ok to label an entire generation as lazy. Doesn't surprise me on here.
		
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Is that not what you have done in post #100 with your remarks on the over 50's?


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## adam6177 (Sep 25, 2021)

I managed to make my 70 mile round trip this morning without filling up....but I'm now in the dregs in the tank.

I was hoping to fill up on the way but at 7am every station I passed had queues and the main A road was blocked in both directions with people trying to fill up.

I really dislike people


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## Dando (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I'm afraid  that I fail to see anything that the PM has said that would prompt or encourage the panic buying of fuel.

And I  speak as one who is not supportive of the current Government but who does think that it is time the public were held responsible for their own stupidity.
		
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It doesn’t matter as in SIlH’s world everything is either due to Boris or brexit


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## adam6177 (Sep 25, 2021)

Dando said:



			It doesn’t matter as in SIlH’s world everything is either due to Boris or brexit
		
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That's the thoughts/beliefs of 99% of BBC journalists also.  Worrying isn't it.


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 25, 2021)

People are silly


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## GB72 (Sep 25, 2021)

I said yes but with a proviso in that I was sort of forced into it. I needed petrol early next week, clearly the panic buying was going to cause issues so I filled up when I was doing the shopping. Only queued about 15 minutes. Problem is that the panic buying sort of forced your hand to buy now when you may normally wait a few days. Media tells people that stations are running out so more people panic buy so causes more shortages


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## Wilson (Sep 25, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			That's the thoughts/beliefs of 99% of BBC journalists also.  Worrying isn't it.
		
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What do you use to know the thoughts and beliefs of 99% of BBC journalists?


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## CliveW (Sep 25, 2021)

Really, this is nothing compared to what we have been through in the past. Back in the 1970s we had a three day week, only certain times of the day when we could use electricity and petrol was in such short supply that ration books were issued. Emergency speed limits were imposed, some of which still remain in use today. In the late 70s there were national strikes where rubbish built up in the streets and in the 90s petrol tanker drivers went on strike and there was a national fuel crisis. So far this weekend there has been panic buying and by the end of the week things will be back to normal.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 25, 2021)

I'm down in Derbyshire for the weekend. I've just about got enough to get back but then I might struggle to get to work on Monday. Ideally I'll fill up in the morning so the pressure is off. Once I've done that I'll be fine for the week. I'm slightly nervous about seeing stations tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be issues. 

The media have a lot to answer for 🤬


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2021)

And people still continue to queue despite every stating clearly there is plenty of petrol if people stop panic buying


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## adam6177 (Sep 25, 2021)

I'd love to know the average spend at the pump.... Is it £35+ or are people "topping up"


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 25, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I'd love to know the average spend at the pump.... Is it £35+ or are people "topping up"
		
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Surely the latter as otherwise we would not be seeing the spike. If this was late July or August then it could be people filling up for holidays but that isn't the case for the bulk here. It is people filling outside of their usual pattern which must equal topping up. Imo anyway 🤷‍♂️


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## jim8flog (Sep 25, 2021)

One of our garages no fuel this morning obviously had a delivery this afternoon. No problem with petrol in the local garage this morning, luckily as I forgot to do my usual Thursday afternoon top up but they had run out of diesel.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I’m not saying he has…but he made a pronouncement on the matter and the media has reported it so that the public are informed.  So you can’t blame the media, in fact the PM would have absolutely expected the media to report it.
		
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And you don't think the tone of reporting had any effect. 

If so I am afraid that you are more gullible than I  thought.


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## jim8flog (Sep 25, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Yes photos of people filling Jerry cans with fuel all over FB this morning. Whipping up a lynch mob hysteria.
		
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 Our head greenkeeper goes over the road every Friday to get the fuel, in cans, for all the clubs vehicles. Apparently he had right barny with some one over filling cans yesterday.


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## Ethan (Sep 25, 2021)

Dando said:



			It doesn’t matter as in SIlH’s world everything is either due to Boris or brexit
		
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Well, in the real world, [well known political issue] and [well known politician] are clearly implicated in this. Did I miss the triumphant Daily Fail news reports of queues for fuel in other parts of the EU? There aren't any because there is plenty of fuel, unlike in the 70s 3 day week, but [well known political issue] has caused a shortage of drivers in the UK. That is the proximate cause of the problem.

Supermarket shortages are multifactorial, but the same issue is clearly a large part of the problem. Check supermarket supplies to the EU, no shortages, even NI has better supplies than GB due to supplies from the ROI.

It ain't rocket science.

It is a real pity that many deny the evidence staring them in the face, though. That just means no action will be taken and further problems will occur.


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## Billysboots (Sep 25, 2021)

I had to fill up today - running very low and I have hospital appointments during the coming week. No diesel anywhere so I took a punt on a motorway services about five miles away. No queues, no pumps out of action, but eye watering prices.

It was either that or run the risk of having to miss the appointments which may have the knock on of leading to surgery being cancelled.


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## Lump (Sep 25, 2021)

Filled up on my way home from golf, no cues, no hassle. 200 mile round trip on Monday to view a new motor. Normally it’s £40 every 2 weeks


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

Kaz said:



			The government are planning to issue about 5000 temporary visas for HGV drivers. Sounds like a tacit admission of at least one factor contributing to the current shortages - in fuel and across other industries. But, yeah, blame the media.
		
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Do tell me then who is responsible for panic buying? And who whipped them up?

There's no shortage of fuel and only two fuel companies who have been  suffering extreme difficulties with their distribution. 

There are a number of factors affecting there recruitment of drivers but if it suits you to pretend that it is attributable to our leaving the EU then good luck.


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## 4LEX (Sep 25, 2021)

Fortunate to live a nice area that was devoid of panic buying during the pandemic, however the idiots panic buying fuel all over the country has damaged supply so badly that no petrol stations in the area have any fuel. If I can't get any tomorrow I'll have to miss work on Monday. Fuming doesn't begin to cover it. The actions of these people will create a shortage and everyone will fill the tanks even if they don't need it all, creating a bigger shortage.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 25, 2021)

Multiple factors are contributing to the current issues of the empty shelves and petrol issue 

Covid 
Brexit 
Stupidity of the people 
Media
Government

There are a few things we can control - our own stupidity- ie don’t panic buy


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## woofers (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Well  as a relative of mine owns a logistics company I  can only say that he doesn't find any interest among the younger generation to be trained as HGV  drivers or other manual occupations.

No shortage of applicants for IT/admin positions regardless of many not having relevant qualifications or experience.
		
Click to expand...

Think there’s an element of truth in this. Recent events should have woken people up to appreciate that not everyone can be “a professional”, there is disappointing disrespect in this country for key, manual workers, e.g the “at least I’m not stacking shelves in….”. Not helped, of course, by the wishes / targets of prominent leaders that 50% (now 66%) of students should go on to university. Daft idea.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

Kaz said:



			I'm only saying what the govt are doing. And what do you think "one factor contributing to" means? Are you suggesting it's completely irrelevant? Surely nobody believes that.
		
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Some effect yes but far more to do with  test backlogs, ageing workforce with more retirees than recruits, disenchantment of many with pay, conditions and lifestyle. 

Of those foreign drivers who have returned home some always intended to, some went due to COVID, and some due to uncertainties as a result of Brexit.

However, that wouldn't explain the shortage of drivers on the continent.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Some effect yes but far more to do with  test backlogs, ageing workforce with more retirees than recruits, disenchantment of many with pay, conditions and lifestyle.

Of those foreign drivers who have returned home some always intended to, some went due to COVID, and some due to uncertainties as a result of Brexit.

However, that wouldn't explain the shortage of drivers on the continent.
		
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I agree.

There is also the reality that as a country our industries have been lazy and tight regarding training new staff.  They have relied for many years on an inexhaustible number of low paid immigrants to do the work, this has suppressed wages and conditions.   They need to stick their hands in their pockets and start training new people, it's not as if they haven't had any warning.  This goes for Drivers, tradespeople, medical staff and so on.  Years back it was always worthwhile learning a trade as it would lead to a secure well paid career.


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## 4LEX (Sep 25, 2021)

woofers said:



			Think there’s an element of truth in this. Recent events should have woken people up to appreciate that not everyone can be “a professional”, there is disappointing disrespect in this country for key, manual workers, e.g the “at least I’m not stacking shelves in….”. Not helped, of course, by the wishes / targets of prominent leaders that 50% (now 66%) of students should go on to university. Daft idea.
		
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University is a false economy unless you really need it. The majority of uni students see it as a right of passage to spend 3/4 years getting smashed away from home. They haven't got a clue what they want to do when they leave uni. Uni places for the young should be massively cut and more given to mature students, who through life experience know exactly what they want from a degree.

I know more tradesman earning 100k plus than anyone who got a standard degree to work in Admin, HR or basic finance.


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## IanM (Sep 25, 2021)

Played at Woodlake Park today...drove through Usk.... two cars in the towns only petrol station.   Speaks volumes.


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## IanM (Sep 25, 2021)

I wonder if shutting training and testing fir 18 months has had an impact in the number of drivers?


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Some effect yes but far more to do with  test backlogs, ageing workforce with more retirees than recruits, disenchantment of many with pay, conditions and lifestyle.

Of those foreign drivers who have returned home some always intended to, some went due to COVID, and some due to uncertainties as a result of Brexit.

However, that wouldn't explain the shortage of drivers on the continent.
		
Click to expand...

The biggest contributor to drivers shortage is retirement then EU drivers going home then ir35 and despite there being a EU wide shortage of HGV drivers some people can only see one reason for the “crisis”. They just can’t help themselves. It’s always there just below the surface.


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## CliveW (Sep 25, 2021)

Apparently DVSA are taking over 10 weeks to process provisional HGV driving licences.


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## adam6177 (Sep 25, 2021)

Just speaking to a mate who at the pumps today was approached by the lady in front who asked him why the pump kept clicking when she had only put £6 in.....

Whereas my fuel light came on this afternoon, I just tried to get fuel from Asda, Sainsbury's and 2 ESSOs and they're all sold out.

Next journey in the car has to be a guarantee of getting fuel quickly else I'll break down.


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## IanM (Sep 25, 2021)

£6?  And there you have it.


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## larmen (Sep 25, 2021)

Tomorrow we have an 8 mile each way drive. What worries me is that we pass 2 or 3 petrol stations, both just before roundabouts. Should we add an hour for traffic to our planned time?
Google maps shows traffic in front of one of them right now.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 25, 2021)

larmen said:



			Tomorrow we have an 8 mile each way drive. What worries me is that we pass 2 or 3 petrol stations, both just before roundabouts. Should we add an hour for traffic to our planned time?
Google maps shows traffic in front of one of them right now.
		
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The main road through our town was completely blocked today by people queueing both sides of the road at a Petrol Station.


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## D-S (Sep 25, 2021)

IanM said:



			£6?  And there you have it.  

Click to expand...

Well the good news is that at least it was only 4 or 5 litres, better than 24 or 48 toilet rolls. All she was doing was holding the next person up. However, doesn’t stop her being a muppet though.


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## chrisd (Sep 25, 2021)

Spent 2 hours driving round to find a petrol station without a massive queue and realised when we found one that we were driving our all  electric car 😀😀


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## larmen (Sep 25, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Spent 2 hours driving round to find a petrol station without a massive queue and realised when we found one that we were driving our all  electric car 😀😀
		
Click to expand...

There was a viral video a few months ago where someone in America was at a petrol station trying to find the fuel cap.


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## Imurg (Sep 25, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Spent 2 hours driving round to find a petrol station without a massive queue and realised when we found one that we were driving our all  electric car 😀😀
		
Click to expand...

Spanner


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## chrisd (Sep 25, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Spanner

Click to expand...

Was only joking! Not all good though,  our power supplier has gone bust so filling up my carers leccy motor is going to get dearer 😠😠


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## Old Skier (Sep 25, 2021)

Have all the tanker drivers gone on holiday. The press have once again caused a crises out of nothing.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 25, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Was only joking! Not all good though,  our power supplier has gone bust so filling up my carers leccy motor is going to get dearer 😠😠
		
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Switch to octupus sharpish .. get on go see what they offer for go itself .. ATM the go part is still cheap when you get on it...you have to have an electric car to have it so u start off £££ then goes down


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## Ethan (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Do tell me then who is responsible for panic buying? And who whipped them up?

There's no shortage of fuel and only two fuel companies who have been  suffering extreme difficulties with their distribution.

There are a number of factors affecting there recruitment of drivers but if it suits you to pretend that it is attributable to our leaving the EU then good luck.
		
Click to expand...

It is perfectly obvious that Brexit is an important part of this. If you choose to stick your head in the sand, then good luck, and point me toward media reports of similar fuel shortages in nearby EU countries. CNN is pretty clear why it is happening.

I am sure you realise that if people hear that there is likely to be a shortage, some who need the commodity will go and get some asap. That is only common sense and prudence. Unfortunately, this creates a greater demand and shortages and it becomes self-fulfilling because even a Brexiter in denial cannot make their care move without fuel.

I haven't tried to buy any fuel, by the way, don't need much anytime soon.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

Ethan said:



			It is perfectly obvious that Brexit is an important part of this. If you choose to stick your head in the sand, then good luck, and point me toward media reports of similar fuel shortages in nearby EU countries. CNN is pretty clear why it is happening.

I am sure you realise that if people hear that there is likely to be a shortage, some who need the commodity will go and get some asap. That is only common sense and prudence. Unfortunately, this creates a greater demand and shortages and it becomes self-fulfilling because even a Brexiter in denial cannot make their care move without fuel.
		
Click to expand...

There is no fuel shortage merely difficulties being experienced by Texaco and Esso in their distribution. 

The situation has been exacerbated by irresponsible reporting by MSM.

And, not that it's relevant, I am not a Brexiteer. Quite the reverse in fact as I actively campaigned for remaining within the EU.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Well  as a relative of mine owns a logistics company I  can only say that he doesn't find any interest among the younger generation to be trained as HGV  drivers or other manual occupations.

No shortage of applicants for IT/admin positions regardless of many not having relevant qualifications or experience.
		
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Conclusive evidence right there.


MetalMickie said:



			Is that not what you have done in post #100 with your remarks on the over 50's?
		
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Errrr yes. That was entirely my point 🤦🏼‍♀️


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## Fade and Die (Sep 25, 2021)

Ethan said:



			It is perfectly obvious that Brexit is an important part of this. If you choose to stick your head in the sand, then good luck, and *point me toward media reports of similar fuel shortages in nearby EU countries*. CNN is pretty clear why it is happening.

I am sure you realise that if people hear that there is likely to be a shortage, some who need the commodity will go and get some asap. That is only common sense and prudence. Unfortunately, this creates a greater demand and shortages and it becomes self-fulfilling because even a Brexiter in denial cannot make their care move without fuel.

I haven't tried to buy any fuel, by the way, don't need much anytime soon.
		
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There are no shortage in EU like there is no shortage in the U.K. 

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-09-24/why-fuel-supply-issues-are-prompting-petrol-stations-to-close

just a small supply issue with BP that has been whipped up by the media. All which I have no doubt your aware of but don’t let that stop you whipping that dead horse eh?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 25, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Conclusive evidence right there.

Errrr yes. That was entirely my point 🤦🏼‍♀️
		
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Slightly more evidence than you have managed to provide. 

I presume from your response that you are suggesting that it is OK for you to generalise .


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## BiMGuy (Sep 25, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Slightly more evidence than you have managed to provide.

I presume from your response that you are suggesting that it is OK for you to generalise .
		
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If course that is what I was suggesting 🤦🏼‍♀️


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## Pants (Sep 26, 2021)

I really can't understand the inability of so many who can't see/accept the obvious, and immediately blame whoever they are not happy with at that moment in time.

Two of the major fuel retailers have had delivery problems for a while now.  Based on normal turnover, the fuel outlets (garages) are able to reasonably predict what (various grades of) petrol and diesel they need in 2 days time and order accordingly.  Recently these two retailer's garages  have been experiencing delayed deliveries and are now having to predict up to 4 or 5 days in advance what they will need – often before the current delivery is due.  Don't forget that they have to pay upfront for the fuel so they can have paid for 2 deliveries that they may not have received.  And if they have ordered (say) 75/100,000 ltr of various fuels then that's a lot of dough.

Part of the fuel driver's training includes knowing how to balance their load (obviously for safety reasons) and if the garage got their guess wrong about the quantities of various grades of petrol and diesel required, they may not get all that they ordered i.e. different grades of petrol in different tanks on the tanker plus diesel is heavier than petrol, so the driver has to assess a safe loading and the garage doesn't necessarily get all that they wanted and the rest goes back.

So.  If they haven't been able to fill all their tanks, in a couple of days that garage could run out of some grades of fuel so regular customers go to garage down the road.  With greatly increased custom, that garage runs out and even if not one of the affected two, can't get a delivery for 2 more days so when they run out their regular customers go elsewhere.  The media hear about it and invite Corporal Jones to do his “Don't panic Mr Manwaring”  and Frazer says “We are all doomed I tell you”.

Yes, there is an overall shortage of HGV lorry drivers (including those additionally qualified for fuel deliveries) – as there is in the EU and this is more to do generally with pay and working conditions and younger people not wanting that type of job rather than other “influences”. There is no shortage of fuel – just a supply hiccup to a couple of major supply chains.  And for anyone remotely interested, I did fill up a week ago before all this started as I was down to 1/3 tank (can't understand why anyone would deliberately run on the dregs).  

Wow. Managed to avoid both the B and the G words there. 



Oopps


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## SocketRocket (Sep 26, 2021)

Pants said:



			I really can't understand the inability of so many who can't see/accept the obvious, and immediately blame whoever they are not happy with at that moment in time.

Two of the major fuel retailers have had delivery problems for a while now.  Based on normal turnover, the fuel outlets (garages) are able to reasonably predict what (various grades of) petrol and diesel they need in 2 days time and order accordingly.  Recently these two retailer's garages  have been experiencing delayed deliveries and are now having to predict up to 4 or 5 days in advance what they will need – often before the current delivery is due.  Don't forget that they have to pay upfront for the fuel so they can have paid for 2 deliveries that they may not have received.  And if they have ordered (say) 75/100,000 ltr of various fuels then that's a lot of dough.

Part of the fuel driver's training includes knowing how to balance their load (obviously for safety reasons) and if the garage got their guess wrong about the quantities of various grades of petrol and diesel required, they may not get all that they ordered i.e. different grades of petrol in different tanks on the tanker plus diesel is heavier than petrol, so the driver has to assess a safe loading and the garage doesn't necessarily get all that they wanted and the rest goes back.

So.  If they haven't been able to fill all their tanks, in a couple of days that garage could run out of some grades of fuel so regular customers go to garage down the road.  With greatly increased custom, that garage runs out and even if not one of the affected two, can't get a delivery for 2 more days so when they run out their regular customers go elsewhere.  The media hear about it and invite Corporal Jones to do his “Don't panic Mr Manwaring”  and Frazer says “We are all doomed I tell you”.

Yes, there is an overall shortage of HGV lorry drivers (including those additionally qualified for fuel deliveries) – as there is in the EU and this is more to do generally with pay and working conditions and younger people not wanting that type of job rather than other “influences”. There is no shortage of fuel – just a supply hiccup to a couple of major supply chains.  And for anyone remotely interested, I did fill up a week ago before all this started as I was down to 1/3 tank (can't understand why anyone would deliberately run on the dregs). 

Wow. Managed to avoid both the B and the G words there.



Oopps
		
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This is more a question than disagreeing.  Surely the fuel outlets don't physically pay for the fuel upfront, I would imagine they have an account that is invoiced and they pay within an agreed number of days.  It's quite normal for companies to have around one hundred days for payment.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

Driving to work today.. queues at every Garage on the 25 mile trip

Few guys at work have run out of fuel and using the wife's car 

How long before something important is missed because of these idiots


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## Pants (Sep 26, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			This is more a question than disagreeing.  Surely the fuel outlets don't physically pay for the fuel upfront, I would imagine they have an account that is invoiced and they pay within an agreed number of days.  It's quite normal for companies to have around one hundred days for payment.
		
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I must admit that I don't know about the very large chains, but the smaller independents certainly do (according to a friend who owns a BP one) and it's not a credit rating thing.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Driving to work today.. queues at every Garage on the 25 mile trip

Few guys at work have run out of fuel and using the wife's car

*How long before something important is missed because of these idiots*

Click to expand...

Indeed, and something that many have over recent weeks said and been very exercised about - and that the government is now legislating to prevent.  You just couldn’t make up what’s happening in and to our country at the moment.

Anyway - desperately hoping that the fuel delivery issue is resolved very quickly for the many who need to travel for their work; if they can’t travel they can’t do the job; and if they don’t do the job they don’t get paid.  Words of good intent are great - but what is required is action that makes a difference now.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 26, 2021)

I went out to do some conker collecting with the boy at 8am this morning and the petrol station was over flowing. 
My car is on the light and 10 miles into that so I have around 30 miles in it. I won’t go out out until all those who need it for their journey to work have got theirs .. so Monday I will have a look but not so bothered, the other car has 3/4 of a tank and does 39mpg average so that will last. 
I don’t see the connection to Brexit, I see a connection to the media causing mass panic, I don’t even think the HGV driver situation is that bad, there is and are lots of other transport methods and then smaller vehicles can be used in urban areas as well… it’s just looking at the problem and being pragmatic we have an impatient society who likes to spend money on frivolous purchases . Cannot wait for my hot tub .. it will make my life complete 😉


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## Dando (Sep 26, 2021)




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## adam6177 (Sep 26, 2021)

Heard an interesting conspiracy theory this morning.... Allegedly this panic is created to get rid of the last of the e10 petrol so that e5 can take over.  And as we all know, the ethanol content in the new petrol degrades older car's engine components quicker and therefore pushing us faster towards an all electric ownership.

Tin foil hats at the ready.... Or some truth in it. Who knows.


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## Imurg (Sep 26, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Heard an interesting conspiracy theory this morning.... Allegedly this panic is created to get rid of the last of the e10 petrol so that e5 can take over.  And as we all know, the ethanol content in the new petrol degrades older car's engine components quicker and therefore pushing us faster towards an all electric ownership.

Tin foil hats at the ready.... Or some truth in it. Who knows.
		
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Many, many pre 2011 cars on the road still..they'll need to old fuel for another 10 years at least...


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## Fade and Die (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Indeed, and something that many have over recent weeks said and been very exercised about - and that the government is now legislating to prevent.  You just couldn’t make up what’s happening in and to our country at the moment.

Anyway - desperately hoping that the fuel delivery issue is resolved very quickly for the many who need to travel for their work; if they can’t travel they can’t do the job; and if they don’t do the job they don’t get paid.  Words of good intent are great - but what is required is *action that makes a difference now.*

Click to expand...

What sort of action do you think is required?

Poaching foreign workers from the continent even though there is a shortage their? Seems wrong to me. 

It will blow over soon, do you know why? Because there is no fuel shortage. Go on say it…..NO. FUEL. SHORTAGE.


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## RichA (Sep 26, 2021)

A £20 surcharge for any purchase of less than 30 litres for 4-wheeled vehicles would quickly weed out the topper-uppers.


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## Dando (Sep 26, 2021)

RichA said:



			A £20 surcharge for any purchase of less than 30 litres for 4-wheeled vehicles would quickly weed out the topper-uppers.
		
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There’s been some stupid posts on here but this might just be the winner


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## SocketRocket (Sep 26, 2021)

Dando said:



			There’s been some stupid posts on here but this might just be the winner
		
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If people can't be sensible then something needs doing.  Maybe a minimum £30 sale.


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## drdel (Sep 26, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			If people can't be sensible then something needs doing.  Maybe a minimum £30 sale.
		
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If you're relying on people NOT being stupid, best of luck. 

Less than 1% of filling stations are low on fuel...


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## Old Skier (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Indeed, and something that many have over recent weeks said and been very exercised about - and that the government is now legislating to prevent.  You just couldn’t make up what’s happening in and to our country at the moment.

Anyway - desperately hoping that the fuel delivery issue is resolved very quickly for the many who need to travel for their work; if they can’t travel they can’t do the job; and if they don’t do the job they don’t get paid.  Words of good intent are great - but what is required is action that makes a difference now.
		
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The government aren’t legislating for any shortage in the fuel industry because there isn’t any.

Perhaps that's why the EU isn't reporting a fuel shortage, just a thought.

Those that are uniformed about food shortages perhaps they might like to go to the UN site that has been looking at this and become better informed and more  rounded in their knowledge.  There is a good informative piece by a Italian MP on the subject including why there are shortages in the whole of European.


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## RichA (Sep 26, 2021)

Dando said:



			There’s been some stupid posts on here but this might just be the winner
		
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Why is it stupid?


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## srixon 1 (Sep 26, 2021)

IanM said:



			Played at Woodlake Park today...drove through Usk.... two cars in the towns only petrol station.   Speaks volumes.
		
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Awesome greens there. Although the design of the 15th (I think it is that one) is shocking. Back on track, if I do not use my car much for the next few days I will have enough fuel to get to Blackmoor and back home for HFH.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 26, 2021)

drdel said:



			If you're relying on people NOT being stupid, best of luck.

Less than 1% of filling stations are low on fuel...
		
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These filling stations must all be in my area then as they're all empty.

Surely my suggestion of applying a £30 minimum limit is relying on people being stupid 🤔


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 26, 2021)

Don’t think there’s any Diesel left in Barnsley


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## harpo_72 (Sep 26, 2021)

Petrol station was quiet when I went by, but then again it had run out of fuel 🤣


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## GreiginFife (Sep 26, 2021)

drdel said:



			If you're relying on people NOT being stupid, best of luck.

Less than 1% of filling stations are low on fuel...
		
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Judging on what I have seen today your last sentence should read less than 1% *were* low on fuel, as thanks to the collective stupidity of the mob it’s more than that now. Only one out of seven round here have any petrol, still some diesel but not a lot.


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## jim8flog (Sep 26, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Spanner

Click to expand...

 I think he was just con fused.


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## larmen (Sep 26, 2021)

larmen said:



			Tomorrow we have an 8 mile each way drive. What worries me is that we pass 2 or 3 petrol stations, both just before roundabouts. Should we add an hour for traffic to our planned time?
Google maps shows traffic in front of one of them right now.
		
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No traffic at all, both stations out of fuel.
personally we are down to our last 420 km. time to top up soon.


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## CliveW (Sep 26, 2021)

Just back from Edinburgh and absolutely no sign of queuing or panic buying. All petrol stations have fuel.


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## adam6177 (Sep 26, 2021)

I went out at 9pm last night and all 4 garages near me were sold out.

I went out at 10am and still no fuel.

Went out at 3pm today and the last one (Sainsbury's) had unleaded only.... So finally managed to fuel up. Bearing in mind my tank is the size of a thimble, it still took £52 to fill up. So I was pushing my luck.


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## CliveW (Sep 26, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Heard an interesting conspiracy theory this morning.... Allegedly this panic is created to get rid of the last of the e10 petrol so that e5 can take over.  And as we all know, the ethanol content in the new petrol degrades older car's engine components quicker and therefore pushing us faster towards an all electric ownership.

Tin foil hats at the ready.... Or some truth in it. Who knows.
		
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E5 is the older fuel which is suitable for older engines and is being replaced by E10. Higher octane fuels such as Shell's Vpower is still E5 which I'm having to use for my classic car and old ride on mower.


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## adam6177 (Sep 26, 2021)

CliveW said:



			E5 is the older fuel which is suitable for older engines and is being replaced by E10. Higher octane fuels such as Shell's Vpower is still E5 which I'm having to use for my classic car and old ride on mower.
		
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Yes you're right, got my number round the wrong way earlier.  I'm also doing the same in my car where I can.... Higher octane wherever possible


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## KenL (Sep 26, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Hope not, I do over 1,000 miles a week with work, I'll be fecked.
		
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That sounds a nightmare, unless you are a truck driver of course.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

Well popped to the garage on the way to golf - Shell have done the decent thing of shoving their prices up - extra 10p a litre now and no surprise there wasn’t much of a queue - went to tescos and not much of a queue as well so managed to fill up. Every garage in the town has run out of diesel though 

Morrison’s and Tescos didn’t open until 8 and they had people queuing from 7


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 26, 2021)

I've just driven back from Derbyshire. We went through Chesterfield and then up the m1, m18, a1. I didn't pull off any of these and go searching, I didn't need any, but each station I passed had no fuel except Washington services at 159.9p 😳. Funny how they still have fuel left 🙄.

Thankfully I still have a quarter of a tank left so I will be okay until mid week by which point this nonsense should be resolved. I completely feel for those doing journeys right now or who are low. They are stuffed for the next day or 2.


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## Green Bay Hacker (Sep 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I never leave my car with much less than 1/4 tank, which is good for about 120 miles.

I don't get why people leave it till virtually empty every time. Much like my wife does. She had to go get some fuel earlier as she's got an early start and an hours drive in the morning.

The nearest petrol station has run out. Tesco was queing miles, but managed to get some at the 3rd place which was pretty quite.
		
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I try to keep at least 150 miles (1/4 tank) all the time, just in case.
Didn't know anything about a 'crisis' until my daughter said she went to put fuel in on her lunch break as she was almost on empty and couldn't get in at any of the local garages. Tesco had even closed their garage to try and ease the congestion.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			What sort of action do you think is required?

Poaching foreign workers from the continent even though there is a shortage their? Seems wrong to me.

It will blow over soon, do you know why? Because there is no fuel shortage. Go on say it…..NO. FUEL. SHORTAGE.
		
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Mobilise service personnel…immediately.  Additional visas not kicking in for some time won’t address public concerns that are ‘now‘ concerns.  Services can be mobilised in times of civic emergency.  There is a drastic shortage of drivers that is causing shortages of fuel at service stations.  If public is told that additional drivers will be driving tankers tomorrow then that will surely reduce public concern, and the urge to top up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Mobilise service personnel…immediately.  Additional visas not kicking in for some time won’t address public concerns that are ‘now‘ concerns.  Services can be mobilised in times of civic emergency.  There is a drastic shortage of drivers that is causing shortages of fuel at service stations.  If public is told that additional drivers will be driving tankers tomorrow then that will surely reduce public concern, and the urge to top up.
		
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What do you want the service personnel to do ? Is that what they are now - to cover for the UK when their residents act like idiots and sheep


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What do you want the service personnel to do ? Is that what they are now - to cover for the UK when their residents act like idiots and sheep
		
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It is what they do when there is a civic emergency regardless of the cause.  By mobilising the services the public should be reassured that filling stations will not run out.  When some act illogically to the detriment of others, it is often best to mitigate the impact on the others if an immediate solution is available rather than to try and change the mind of those acting illogically.

Also…Answering the post poll *honestly*.

Have I bought fuel in a panic…answer No.
Have I bought fuel when I didn’t 100% need to and sooner than I normally would have…answer Yes.

I am in Skye.  If I run low as I head to Inverness then I could well be in trouble as their aren’t that many filling stations between here and there.  And so I topped up with £20.

Am I part of the problem…Yes I am.  But I am only mitigating a risk - I don’t see myself as panic buying.  But I could have answered Yes to the poll question.  I wonder how many of the rest of us have done something similar as I.


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## Imurg (Sep 26, 2021)

Filling stations would not be running out if thousands of people weren't queuing up to put 15 or 20 quids worth of fuel in.
People are not suddenly driving hundreds of miles more than last week
The majority didn't have to top up
Don't most cars do less than 150 miles a week?
A handful of stations had to close because they missed a delivery due to a driver shortage 
Thats all
I think with BP it was 5
And yet the media whipped it up to make a story so every moronic sheep in the country suddenly thinks there's a shortage and I have to fill up now even though they've got 3/4 of a tank and they do 10 miles a day.


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## Pants (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Mobilise service personnel…immediately.
		
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So you think that this country has hundreds or even thousands of service personnel fully trained with full HGV license plus up to date PD Passport training and documentation just sitting on the shelf with nothing better to do?  

What planet are you on?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It is what they do when there is a civic emergency regardless of the cause.  By mobilising the services the public should be reassured that filling stations will not run out.  When some act illogically to the detriment of others, it is often best to mitigate the impact on the others if an immediate solution is available rather than to try and change the mind of those acting illogically.

Also…Answering the post poll *honestly*.

Have I bought fuel in a panic…answer No.
Have I bought fuel when I didn’t 100% need to and sooner than I normally would have…answer Yes.

I am in Skye.  If I run low as I head to Inverness then I could well be in trouble as their aren’t that many filling stations between here and there.  And so I topped up with £20.

Am I part of the problem…Yes I am.  But I am only mitigating a risk - I don’t see myself as panic buying.  But I could have answered Yes to the poll question.  I wonder how many of the rest of us have done something similar as I.
		
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So what do you want the military to do exactly ? Shoot people who are being idiots by panic buying ? 

There is no civic “emergency” - the pubic acting like idiots is not an emergency 

And as you confirm you are part of the problem by topping up when you don’t need too - you have been told there is no fuel shortage yet you ignore that and go and “top up” - so instead of asking for the military to do whatever it is you want them to do how about you take responsibility of your own actions


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## adam6177 (Sep 26, 2021)

I think some people are in denial of their actions and their role in this panic.  No wonder we as a country get ourselves in such a mess.

With the fortune of hindsight, what I'd like to have seen was the attendants that have been helping the flow of traffic at garages over the last few days, turning away anyone with 1/2 tank+ of fuel.  But I can only imagine the melt downs this would have caused.... Because the world is full of snowflakes at the moment, and they just keep showing themselves.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what do you want the military to do exactly ? Shoot people who are being idiots by panic buying ?

There is no civic “emergency” - the pubic acting like idiots is not an emergency

And as you confirm you are part of the problem by topping up when you don’t need too - you have been told there is no fuel shortage yet you ignore that and go and “top up” - so instead of asking for the military to do whatever it is you want them to do how about you take responsibility of your own actions
		
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Queues on roads blocking traffic or holding up emergency vehicles and public trying to get to hospital or other important appointment, flight or connection; nurses, doctors and firefighters unable to get to work; taxi drivers unable to work etc.  Such things add up to a civic emergency in my mind.  

But OK. As you will have it.  We do nothing and we absolve the government of any need for it to do anything in the immediate short term. Fine.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I think some people are in denial of their actions and their role in this panic.  No wonder we as a country get ourselves in such a mess.

With the fortune of hindsight, what I'd like to have seen was the attendants that have been helping the flow of traffic at garages over the last few days, turning away anyone with 1/2 tank+ of fuel.  But I can only imagine the melt downs this would have caused.... Because the world is full of snowflakes at the moment, and they just keep showing themselves.
		
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Why I have admitted my part in it.  Fuelling up sooner than I would have normally, but I claim mitigating circumstances.

Also not really understanding the reference to ‘snowflakes’ and their part in it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what do you want the military to do exactly ? Shoot people who are being idiots by panic buying ?

There is no civic “emergency” - the pubic acting like idiots is not an emergency

And as you confirm you are part of the problem by topping up when you don’t need too - you have been told there is no fuel shortage yet you ignore that and go and “top up” - so instead of asking for the military to do whatever it is you want them to do how about you take responsibility of your own actions
		
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I trust that you read and understand my mitigating circumstances…I feel that I need to be confident that I can get back to the central belt…but I am being honest about it and I am not sure that every poster on this forum has been quite so honest about a little ‘top up’ just in case.  Not panicking of course.


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## Pants (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Queues on roads blocking traffic or holding up emergency vehicles and public trying to get to hospital or other important appointment, flight or connection; nurses, doctors and firefighters unable to get to work; taxi drivers unable to work etc.  Such things add up to a civic emergency in my mind. 

But OK. As you will have it.  We do nothing and we absolve the government of any need for it to do anything in the immediate short term. Fine.
		
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But you weren't saying that Hugh, were you?  

"Mobilise service personnel…immediately. *Additional visas not kicking in* for some time won’t address public concerns that are ‘now‘ concerns. Services can be mobilised in times of civic emergency. *There is a drastic shortage of drivers that is causing shortages of fuel at service stations*. *If public is told that additional drivers will be driving tankers tomorrow* then that will surely reduce public concern, and the urge to top up. "


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Queues on roads blocking traffic or holding up emergency vehicles and public trying to get to hospital or other important appointment, flight or connection; nurses, doctors and firefighters unable to get to work; taxi drivers unable to work etc.  Such things add up to a civic emergency in my mind. 

But OK. As you will have it.  We do nothing and we absolve the government of any need for it to do anything in the immediate short term. Fine.
		
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Queues on roads caused by idiots is not an emergency 

Again what do you want the military to do exactly ?

Do you think of that when you were queuing for petrol that you didn’t really need


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## BiMGuy (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Queues on roads blocking traffic or holding up emergency vehicles and public trying to get to hospital or other important appointment, flight or connection; nurses, doctors and firefighters unable to get to work; taxi drivers unable to work etc.  Such things add up to a civic emergency in my mind. 

But OK. As you will have it.  We do nothing and we absolve the government of any need for it to do anything in the immediate short term. Fine.
		
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You are not allowed to suggest that the services should step in to help out. It might make them feel a bit sad.


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## IanM (Sep 26, 2021)

Some super inconsistencies from my mate who seems to get a free pass on political comments when others do not,

I guess the Govt could close down the parts of the press who whipped this up, but of course that would be Boris exceeding his powers  😀


Of course our correspondent must be approaching death by starvation  due to Brexit by now.  His supermarket shelves have been empty since Easter.   This will be the final straw eh?

Short term action is, it’ll sort itself quickly as you can only put a finite amount of fuel in a car🤪


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

Pants said:



			But you weren't saying that Hugh, were you?

"Mobilise service personnel…immediately. *Additional visas not kicking in* for some time won’t address public concerns that are ‘now‘ concerns. Services can be mobilised in times of civic emergency. *There is a drastic shortage of drivers that is causing shortages of fuel at service stations*. *If public is told that additional drivers will be driving tankers tomorrow* then that will surely reduce public concern, and the urge to top up. "
		
Click to expand...

Well you have highlighted much of what I have said so don‘t get your point.  I don’t think anything you’ve highlighted is untrue or even exaggerated…or am I missing something…Maybe I should have been more explicit and said *some* service stations, but I think that we all know it isn’t all.  And we know that some are closing because some drivers are panic buying.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Queues on roads caused by idiots is not an emergency

Again what do you want the military to do exactly ?

Do you think of that when you were queuing for petrol that you didn’t really need
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t have to queue.  The filling station at Invergarry was empty of other cars.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I didn’t have to queue.  The filling station at Invergarry was empty of other cars.
		
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Then no need for the military there then 🤦‍♂️


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## Pants (Sep 26, 2021)

Deflection as usual Hugh as soon as you are challenged.  I expected nothing less from you.


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## Fade and Die (Sep 26, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I think some people are in denial of their actions and their role in this panic.  No wonder we as a country get ourselves in such a mess.

With the fortune of hindsight, what I'd like to have seen was the attendants that have been helping the flow of traffic at garages over the last few days, turning away anyone with 1/2 tank+ of fuel.  But I can only imagine the melt downs this would have caused.... Because the world is full of snowflakes at the moment, and they just keep showing themselves.
		
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Was talking about this around the dinner table, first sign of panic buying make petrol stations have attendants, more than quarter of a tank no fuel, less than a quarter you get £30 worth.
All vans/ lorries etc with less than quarter of a tank get filled up.
Security guards in attendance if required. (Or military 😉)


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## theoneandonly (Sep 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Was talking about this around the dinner table, first sign of panic buying make petrol stations have attendants, more than quarter of a tank no fuel, less than a quarter you get £30 worth.
All vans/ lorries etc with less than quarter of a tank get filled up.
Security guards in attendance if required. (Or military 😉)
		
Click to expand...

Where you getting these extra staff?🤣


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## Fade and Die (Sep 26, 2021)

theoneandonly said:



			Where you getting these extra staff?🤣
		
Click to expand...

Where indeed? 🤔

https://www.statista.com/topics/1989/unemployment-in-the-united-kingdom/?#topicHeader__wrapper


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## BiMGuy (Sep 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			Where indeed? 🤔

https://www.statista.com/topics/1989/unemployment-in-the-united-kingdom/?#topicHeader__wrapper

Click to expand...

Genius!


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## Fade and Die (Sep 26, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Genius!
		
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I’m sure the millennials and Gen Z will be falling over themselves to help. Obviously their degrees will come in handy…..If they can put there phones down of course.👍


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## Captainron (Sep 26, 2021)

It’s hardly the OPEC crisis again though is it. Loads of folk working from home and not making regular long journeys. It will be over in a few days. People just need to flipping calm down


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## IanM (Sep 26, 2021)

Captainron said:



			It’s hardly the OPEC crisis again though is it. Loads of folk working from home and not making regular long journeys. It will be over in a few days. People just need to flipping calm down
		
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there’s no political leverage in that sort of rational thinking!😜


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## Robster59 (Sep 26, 2021)

I've not topped up yet. I've about a quarter tank left and, after collecting my car on Saturday morning after a service, I thought I'd to to fill it up. Two petrol stations were empty and the other two had big queues.  Luckily I've a hybrid so sad long as I don't do more than 30 miles in a day I'll be fine but I always like to keep a decent amount in my tank in case I get called out for a work emergency. I'm hoping it will calm down next week when the numpties have all filled their cars which will undoubtedly be left parked on their drive with a full tank. 
I don't blame the politicians or the media.  I blame it on the stupid, selfish people who have been all too prevalent over the last 18 months.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I think some people are in denial of their actions and their role in this panic.  No wonder we as a country get ourselves in such a mess.

With the fortune of hindsight, what I'd like to have seen was the attendants that have been helping the flow of traffic at garages over the last few days, turning away anyone with 1/2 tank+ of fuel.  But I can only imagine the melt downs this would have caused.... Because the world is full of snowflakes at the moment, and they just keep showing themselves.
		
Click to expand...

It's because this country is built on the myth of the "sprit" of the blitz

When reality was when people were down the tunnels in an air raid their houses were being robbed and the food rationing just lead to a black market ..

All in it together 

As long as I'm alright Jack.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 26, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			I’m sure the millennials and Gen Z will be falling over themselves to help. Obviously their degrees will come in handy…..If they can put there phones down of course.👍
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure in years to come they will do their bit in digging us out of the mess created by the older generations.


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## IainP (Sep 26, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58701620


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## pauljames87 (Sep 26, 2021)

IainP said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58701620

Click to expand...

Good!! Every little helps 

My mother in law added to the problem today 

Had a full tank. Went to and from work Friday ..

Was coming to ours to help wife with kids .. chanced it and got £11 worth of fuel to make sure she has enough for week

No queue in and out 

So there one person I know now


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## Old Skier (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It is what they do when there is a civic emergency regardless of the cause.  By mobilising the services the public should be reassured that filling stations will not run out.  When some act illogically to the detriment of others, it is often best to mitigate the impact on the others if an immediate solution is available rather than to try and change the mind of those acting illogically.

Also…Answering the post poll *honestly*.

Have I bought fuel in a panic…answer No.
Have I bought fuel when I didn’t 100% need to and sooner than I normally would have…answer Yes.

I am in Skye.  If I run low as I head to Inverness then I could well be in trouble as their aren’t that many filling stations between here and there.  And so I topped up with £20.

Am I part of the problem…Yes I am.  But I am only mitigating a risk - I don’t see myself as panic buying.  But I could have answered Yes to the poll question.  I wonder how many of the rest of us have done something similar as I.
		
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Where is there a civil emergency, when was this declared. Perhaps those that refused to do any work during the last 18 months might be used to do all your odd jobs.

You continue to make things up and you seem to have little or no idea what the military are for.


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## Old Skier (Sep 26, 2021)

It appears I have a job today, unfortunately I took the last of the diesel


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 26, 2021)

Due to muppet behavior
Visas for foreign drivers going against everything Boris has said.
You could not make it up.
What a mess.


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## Old Skier (Sep 26, 2021)

Without the muppets we would be under 100 tons of toilet paper and never hear false news.


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## Mudball (Sep 26, 2021)

The petrol station is the new Wetherspoons.. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441810263385133059


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## Pants (Sep 26, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but deflection from answering what?
		
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By responding to various comments following your post demanding "*Mobilise service personnel…immediately*" by deflecting.

One day you will take the advice of a wise man who advised that when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 26, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Due to muppet behavior
Visas for foreign drivers going against everything Boris has said.
You could not make it up.
What a mess.
		
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Yes those muppets who foisted this mess upon us by voting for it. Project fear eh.


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## ExRabbit (Sep 27, 2021)

RichA said:



			A £20 surcharge for any purchase of less than 30 litres for 4-wheeled vehicles would quickly weed out the topper-uppers.
		
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Dando said:



			There’s been some stupid posts on here but this might just be the winner
		
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RichA said:



			Why is it stupid?
		
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For a start off, not everyone can afford to put 30 litres into their car. For instance, they might be working a zero contract job and only put in just what they need as and when.

And secondly, people need to be encouraged to put only what they need into their car when they actually need it - i.e. act like normal.


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## Imurg (Sep 27, 2021)

As I don't sleep it seemed like the perfect time to seek out some diesel...
Did a quick tour and all bar 1 station was shut ( all 24hr)
Joined a 3 car at each pump queue at the open one, 
By the time I left the road was blocked at the entry.
Its the Mrs car and there was about 40 miles worth left
If I didn't fill it I'd have been taxiing her to work and back and that messes with my golf timetable 
Needs must...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 27, 2021)

Pants said:



			By responding to various comments following your post demanding "*Mobilise service personnel…immediately*" by deflecting.

One day you will take the advice of a wise man who advised that when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
		
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Ok…though I note from here yesterday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58701620

the following…

_Ministers are also considering deploying the Army to deliver fuel.
The option is under discussion, and could be examined at a possible cabinet meeting on Monday._

And so today’s headlines

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58701728


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 27, 2021)

theoneandonly said:



			Yes those muppets who foisted this mess upon us by voting for it. Project fear eh.
		
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How come there is a shortage of drivers in other European countries.?
There still in the EU.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 27, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How come there is a shortage of drivers in other European countries.?
There still in the EU.
		
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I know that people are keen to blame Brexit as it suits their agenda but we've been out of the EU for ages and two weeks ago we had no issues around fuel. It's a combination of the media creating a panic and stupid people that has led to what's happened this past week.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			I know that people are keen to blame Brexit as it suits their agenda but we've been out of the EU for ages and two weeks ago we had no issues around fuel. It's a combination of the media creating a panic and stupid people that has led to what's happened this past week.
		
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It's a storm that's been brewing though. Whilst there isn't a shortage of fuel the shortage of drivers because of various things (covid, brexit, ir35, pay and conditions , retirements) has lead to supply chains being hit 

Yes people's behaviour doesn't help but with the correct amount of drivers this issue would be even less 

The temp issue of visas is a good move and should be happening more and faster (was point of brexit no? Visas when we need workers?) But at same time there will be plenty of British people training up to work HGV drivers.. just the back log at the dvsa causing a shortage in training


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## Brads (Sep 27, 2021)

Yup , stupid people fed by idiot press.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 27, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			How come there is a shortage of drivers in other European countries.?
There still in the EU.
		
Click to expand...

Because its more than just lorry drives. Don't worry, you keep that head firmly in the sand 😉


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## Kellfire (Sep 27, 2021)

Brexit has undoubtedly worsened the shortage of lorry drivers. It’s economically less beneficial for EU nationals to work for British companies (weakened pound) and the more difficult logistics of even entering the UK to drive leads to increased costs for companies bringing things into the UK on lorries.

Does this mean it’s all Brexit’s fault? Nope. Just as it isn’t all the pandemics fault.

These things are nuanced and a mix of factors but we didn’t vote for a pandemic or for businesses to make being an HGV driver less attractive for a worker. We did vote for brexit though so that’s on the population.

Taking the stance of “iT IZ ALL da mane streem meadya” is just as incorrect and lazy as saying it’s all due to Brexit.


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## Mudball (Sep 27, 2021)

Leave SILH alone.... this panic buying was caused by a whistleblower who leaked about the shortage to the media.  it was a confidential report that the industry & Govt had under control till he leaked it.  
All SILH did was buy 20 quid worth of extra fuel 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442380486576201731


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

I think a 500% increase in sales over the past few days might be something to do with it.   That's behavioural.  I am sure some Eastern European lorry drivers have gone home (was that Brexit or Covid? ) but the percentage is low.  And as said above, lorry driver shortage in the EU too... 

Anyone want to guess how many new drivers were tested and registered in the past 18 months relative to normal?  

Bog-roll, pasta, now petrol.... anyone notice a pattern?


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## Old Skier (Sep 27, 2021)

Great piece on the shortage of fuel deliveries òn BBC Breakfast.

Interviewer to manager, How is the shortage affecting you.

Manager, well instead of 3 tankers a week we now have 2 tankers a day.

You can't make it up.

And for those with an agenda, could and may doesn't mean will.

Is Brexit effecting things, yes, and for those who really want the answer go back to the original opposition from the Labour Party in 73/74 as to why the Common Market would affect the UK working class.

History is an interesting thing.

MODS, not a post to bring up all the old arguments.  Just one to encourage some to go back and look at the old debates on the subject.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 27, 2021)

IR35 is a bad policy, it kills temporary staff. The rule should be no roll over contracts after 18months , contractors must be permified. 
Currently the contractors are hit with 28% more tax and still don’t get paid holidays, pensions, child vouchers, plus industry bespoke benefits.
The contractor unless they have carried a pension from a previous work place has to pay higher management fees on their pension. There is no sick pay and they don’t get redundancy pay outs either .. So firms who are claiming stuff is inside IR35 are being asked to stump up an extra 30% but they refuse to .. so no one bothers working for them .
it’s rather simple.


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

IR35 is a good policy (in theory), but it have been appallingly applied!   (I'd forgotten about that as an impact)



Old Skier said:



			Manager, well instead of 3 tankers a week we now have 2 tankers a day.

Is Brexit effecting things, yes, and for those who really want the answer go back to the original opposition from the Labour Party in 73/74 as to why the Common Market would affect the UK working class.
		
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1) So, more fuel going to stations than normal.  (no need for the army then)

2) I've never understood why the Party funded by Unions supports a system that drives down the wages of its members.   (You Tube Tony Benn)   (That's an economics point not a political one)


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## Robster59 (Sep 27, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Leave SILH alone.... this panic buying was caused by a whistleblower who leaked about the shortage to the media.  it was a confidential report that the industry & Govt had under control till he leaked it. 
All SILH did was buy 20 quid worth of extra fuel


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442380486576201731

Click to expand...

Interesting video and correct point of view.  The reason we are in this situation is that people are panic buying, pure and simple.  And like at the start of the pandemic when food, toilet rolls, etc., were being hoarded, here people are effectively hoarding petrol that they won't use "just in case".  
Everyone knows that CO2 is very short at the moment.  If the public thought they could buy CO2 and hoard it, they would.  Not because they need it but because there is a supply issue.  With CO2 it is being managed by the suppliers, they are prioritising deliveries to where it is most needed.  It's not ideal, but they are working hard to manage a very difficult situation.  If the whistleblower had not made this public, the oil companies would have been given the chance to manage it better.  One or two pumps may have been turned off (and we've all seen that over the years) but I don't believe we would be in the situation we are now.  But there is only so much fuel you can put in your car and so once all the idiots have filled up their tanks, hopefully then the situation will ease. 
But hoarding is nothing new.  Those of us who remember the three-day week may well remember things like Sugar being short on supply.  My Mum was as bad.  I remember our spare room had what looks like a years supply of sugar in it!  
Start a rumour and people follow it like sheep.  Someone like Arkwright from Open All Hours would have a field day!  Remember the episode with the Jamaican Ginger Cake?


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

My first Economics teacher once started a lesson with the question, "how do you start a recession?"   lots of chatter before she gave the answer, "say there is going to be one!"


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## Old Skier (Sep 27, 2021)

IanM said:



			IR35 is a good policy (in theory), but it have been appallingly applied!   (I'd forgotten about that as an impact)



1) So, more fuel going to stations than normal.  (no need for the army then)

2) I've never understood why the Party funded by Unions supports a system that drives down the wages of its members.   (You Tube Tony Benn)   (That's an economics point not a political one)
		
Click to expand...

Tony Benn was right, the whole policy was built on the German model from the 60s with the introduction of cheap Turkish labour and continues to this day out side of the EU control.


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## AliMc (Sep 27, 2021)

Have a couple of journeys this week so went in to station at Asda Dunbar, all pumps being used but no queues, limited to £30 each, just over half tank now so will need to drive nice and efficiency for the next week or so


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## Sats (Sep 27, 2021)

Had a trip planned to thorpe park with the kids on Saturday so I filled up on the Tuesday as that was my pay day - stopped off at Cobham for a comfort break and there were queues to the junction! On the way back at 9ish there were still cars queuing for fuel! Utter craziness.


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## GB72 (Sep 27, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			Interesting video and correct point of view.  The reason we are in this situation is that people are panic buying, pure and simple.  And like at the start of the pandemic when food, toilet rolls, etc., were being hoarded, here people are effectively hoarding petrol that they won't use "just in case". 
Everyone knows that CO2 is very short at the moment.  If the public thought they could buy CO2 and hoard it, they would.  Not because they need it but because there is a supply issue.  With CO2 it is being managed by the suppliers, they are prioritising deliveries to where it is most needed.  It's not ideal, but they are working hard to manage a very difficult situation.  If the whistleblower had not made this public, the oil companies would have been given the chance to manage it better.  One or two pumps may have been turned off (and we've all seen that over the years) but I don't believe we would be in the situation we are now.  But there is only so much fuel you can put in your car and so once all the idiots have filled up their tanks, hopefully then the situation will ease.
But hoarding is nothing new.  Those of us who remember the three-day week may well remember things like Sugar being short on supply.  My Mum was as bad.  I remember our spare room had what looks like a years supply of sugar in it! 
Start a rumour and people follow it like sheep.  Someone like Arkwright from Open All Hours would have a field day!  Remember the episode with the Jamaican Ginger Cake?
		
Click to expand...


This is a fair point and I am sure we are not far away from a company trying to use shortage scaremongering as a way to boost sales. The cynic in me thinks that this could already be the case. Turkey has been on the decline as the Xmas dinner of choice for a while now. How best to boost sales, start reports that there is going to be a Turkey shortage for Xmas.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Have a couple of journeys this week so went in to station at Asda Dunbar, all pumps being used but no queues, limited to £30 each, just over half tank now so will need to drive nice and efficiency for the next week or so
		
Click to expand...

See this is exactly what people should be doing if really panicked 

Slow down. Maybe 50mph on the motorway. Really doesn't add that long to a trip and saves so much fuel


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

OH MY GOD!!  Co2 Shortage?   Where can I buy some????  What about Amyl acetate?  Is that low too??

Channel 4 need to re-run Big Brother... keep these folk off the streets!


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## AliMc (Sep 27, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			See this is exactly what people should be doing if really panicked

Slow down. Maybe 50mph on the motorway. Really doesn't add that long to a trip and saves so much fuel
		
Click to expand...

Yeah will need to see if i can get my 34.5 mpg up a bit !


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## Neilds (Sep 27, 2021)

People need to realise that more lorry drivers (whether from the Army/Navy/RAF or the EU) is not the answer to the fuel 'issue'.  What we need is tanker drivers. May seem a bit pedantic but to drive a tanker you need other qualifications/certificates and just pulling a standard HGV driver into the job is not the answer if they can't drive the tanker or get the fuel from the tanker to the tanks in the filling stations.  It is a bit more complicated than a lot of people seem to realise - but the extra drivers will be able to deliver our Christmas presents


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## Patster1969 (Sep 27, 2021)

IanM said:



			Bog-roll, pasta, now petrol.... anyone notice a pattern? 

Click to expand...

Yep, the general public are morons


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## Patster1969 (Sep 27, 2021)

Annoyingly, I could do with some fuel (down to 2 bars) but likely don't need the car until Thursday/Friday (working from home), so hopefully will be able to pop out on Wednesday to get some.
Drove past 3 stations on Saturday and 3 on Sunday on my usual route and all sold out


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## larmen (Sep 27, 2021)

Can someone let the people panic buying petrol know that the country is running very low on contraception!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2021)

larmen said:



			Can someone let the people panic buying petrol know that the country is running very low on contraception!
		
Click to expand...

Sadly, they would just stock it in a spare room and not open the boxes


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## bobmac (Sep 27, 2021)

larmen said:



			Can someone let the people panic buying petrol know that the country is running very low on contraception!
		
Click to expand...

How long is their shelf life because I've got some left over from the 70's


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## chrisd (Sep 27, 2021)

bobmac said:



			How long is their shelf life because I've got some left over from the 70's  

Click to expand...

18 or 19 '70s Bob


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## Robster59 (Sep 27, 2021)

IanM said:



			OH MY GOD!!  Co2 Shortage?   Where can I buy some????  *What about Amyl acetate?*  Is that low too??

Channel 4 need to re-run Big Brother... keep these folk off the streets! 

Click to expand...

Now we know what you've been doing during lockdown!


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			Now we know what you've been doing during lockdown!
		
Click to expand...

Good old Google, I don't even know what that is... but perhaps you can shed some light!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 27, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Have a couple of journeys this week so went in to station at Asda Dunbar, all pumps being used but no queues, limited to £30 each, just over half tank now so will need to drive nice and efficiency for the next week or so
		
Click to expand...

Watch out.  I put in £20 and got pelters 😉😻


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## fundy (Sep 27, 2021)

SILH knew 

https://www.ft.com/content/7e79e4a8-7a1e-4b2c-8f81-cbf4e9969e28


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## SocketRocket (Sep 27, 2021)

larmen said:



			Can someone let the people panic buying petrol know that the country is running very low on contraception!
		
Click to expand...

Ive got plenty if anyone needs some, the woman in Boots asked me what size I needed so I said 'Large of course' Came out with a box of 500.


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## bobmac (Sep 27, 2021)

chrisd said:



			18 or 19 '70s Bob
		
Click to expand...


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## yandabrown (Sep 27, 2021)

bobmac said:



View attachment 38698

Click to expand...

Don't tell him Chrisd


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## Billysboots (Sep 27, 2021)

Top tip. If you want a stress free, hassle free existence then don’t work as a trade plater delivering cars in the midst of a nationwide fuel crisis. If anyone had any delusions that the message about there being no fuel shortage was getting through, think again. The behaviour I witnessed at times today was nothing short of moronic.

Having delivered a car near Wembley first thing I hopped on a bus for a 45 minute journey to Edgware. That journey would have extended to over 90 minutes, owing to the log jam at a roundabout where a filling station was located.

From the top deck of the bus I saw a queue about 20 deep of customers on foot carrying jerry cans. The queue of vehicles extended as far as I could see along the main road and round the roundabout itself, having a knock on effect on all the roads approaching the island. I got off and walked the last two miles to my next job.

Having collected that I travelled up the A1 and did not pass a single filling station with available fuel until I had less than 10 miles in the tank, almost at Peterborough. I literally needed 40 miles’ fuel to complete the delivery or I would have had to park the vehicle at the roadside.

Suffice to say, I am not going to even try to earn any money this week after the chaos today. It’s more hassle than it’s worth. Still, as long as everyone can leave their fully refuelled cars on the driveway, you know, just in case they need to drive them in the next week or so, I’m happy to set my livelihood to one side for their benefit.

The world has gone absolutely bonkers.


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## larmen (Sep 27, 2021)

At the beginning of the pandemic when we ran out of everything, they later released stats that it was something like only 8% (or 5% ?) of people that were panic buying. It doesn’t take a lot to tipple an equilibrium of supply and demand.


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

Bonkers indeed.........  you're right.  I wonder why folk feel the need to run out there with Jerry Cans... they cant all have just run out somewhere up the road.  How long before we see pics of these folk on Facebook selling the cans for daft prices.

Shortage caused by panic... as the guy said on the news, there is actually more fuel going to stations than normal.  There's still a percentage of folk working from home and not commuting.  Wallies will be wallies.


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## Dando (Sep 27, 2021)

just been out and filled the tank right up as there were no limits and of course the robbing bar stewards have ramped the prices up


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## Imurg (Sep 27, 2021)

A tanker carries around 36000 litres 
Average car fuel tank is, what, 50/55
If every car puts 40 litres in you have enough for just 900 cars...
Each pump does, say, 10 cars an hour
Not going to last long with a constant drain....


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

...not if folk are dropping what they are doing so they can queue at a filling-station "just-in-case!"


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## Mudball (Sep 27, 2021)

What we need is a startup that will disrupt the petrol station....  Enter silicon valley..

https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/26/10829702/wefuel-app-launches-gas-delivery-silicon-valley


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## road2ruin (Sep 27, 2021)

IanM said:



			I wonder why folk feel the need to run out there with Jerry Cans... they cant all have just run out somewhere up the road.
		
Click to expand...

Was listening to the radio this afternoon and a guy was on who was almost attacked at a petrol station for filling jerry cans up with petrol, apparently it was like a lynch mob. Anyway, turns out he works for the RNLI whose boats are filled up that way and they've always gone to the petrol stations in their private vehicles. Just shows that whilst there are plenty of prats out there it's not always what it seems.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2021)

So my good friend lives 20 miles away

She works in a school 5 miles from us. On a weds she normally comes for dinner 

Past few weeks my wife has to work late so auntie Lauren is on bath and bed duty to help me with twins and eldest 

This week she can't get fuel so staying at her mum's a couple miles away 

Had to arrange childcare for me to pick her up otherwise I won't manage bathtime lol 

Crazy times


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## IanM (Sep 27, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Was listening to the radio this afternoon and a guy was on who was almost attacked at a petrol station for filling jerry cans up with petrol, apparently it was like a lynch mob. Anyway, turns out he works for the RNLI whose boats are filled up that way and they've always gone to the petrol stations in their private vehicles. Just shows that whilst there are plenty of prats out there it's not always what it seems.
		
Click to expand...

Really??   They use Marine Fuel and they get it delivered.  I wonder what this was.


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## Robster59 (Sep 27, 2021)

IanM said:



			Good old Google, I don't even know what that is... but perhaps you can shed some light!
		
Click to expand...

I used to work for a chemical supply company and one of our blokes said he received an enquiry for an IBC (1000 litres) of the stuff!  The bloke was planning to rebottle it into 10ml bottles and re-sell it.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 27, 2021)

Business as usual at my local petrol station......except price up to £1.35 and £30 limit.


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## stefanovic (Sep 27, 2021)

No shortage of fuel or tanker drivers I heard yesterday.
Clearly not the case because every petrol station I passed today is out of fuel.
Then the psychologists are saying don't worry because we are all born to be selfish.
There is a chance now of civil unrest and I'm not going to get involved.
Or could it be a conspiracy to get us to buy electric?


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## Robster59 (Sep 27, 2021)

Years ago, when I worked for ICI (anyone remember them?), I worked in the Fire Fighting Chemicals section.  ICI produced BCF and Monnex fire extinguishants and I worked in technical support.  Part of that was putting out fires in circular trays any size from about 3' wide up to 10' wide (British Standard).  For official ratings you had to use Hexane, but the cheapest option for general work was Petrol.  I used to put 40 x 5 gallon Jerry Cans into the back of our company truck, drive to the local petrol station and fill them all.  When I was asked why I was buying 200 gallons of petrol, and I told them it was to set fire to, I got some rather strange looks.


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## road2ruin (Sep 27, 2021)

Not sure if this has been mentioned previously or anyone who knows can answer but what I find most concerning about this is that the emergency services apparently use the same resources as the general public, is that actually true? 

I must admit I don't think I have ever seen a police car, ambulance or fire engine filling up at a petrol station yet on the radio and social media I keep hearing about all of these vehicles struggling to fill up and therefore putting the general population in danger given they cannot then respond. I always assumed that those services would have their own sites that they would use to refill and would not be reliant on the same pumps as the rest of us. If that is the case then it doesn't bode well if there really were a breakdown in society that lead to a prolonged period of unavailability.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Sep 27, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Not sure if this has been mentioned previously or anyone who knows can answer but what I find most concerning about this is that the emergency services apparently use the same resources as the general public, is that actually true? 

I must admit I don't think I have ever seen a police car, ambulance or fire engine filling up at a petrol station yet on the radio and social media I keep hearing about all of these vehicles struggling to fill up and therefore putting the general population in danger given they cannot then respond. I always assumed that those services would have their own sites that they would use to refill and would not be reliant on the same pumps as the rest of us. If that is the case then it doesn't bode well if there really were a breakdown in society that lead to a prolonged period of unavailability.
		
Click to expand...

See them all the time around my way filling up.


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## Robster59 (Sep 27, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Not sure if this has been mentioned previously or anyone who knows can answer but what I find most concerning about this is that the emergency services apparently use the same resources as the general public, is that actually true?

I must admit I don't think I have ever seen a police car, ambulance or fire engine filling up at a petrol station yet on the radio and social media I keep hearing about all of these vehicles struggling to fill up and therefore putting the general population in danger given they cannot then respond. I always assumed that those services would have their own sites that they would use to refill and would not be reliant on the same pumps as the rest of us. If that is the case then it doesn't bode well if there really were a breakdown in society that lead to a prolonged period of unavailability.
		
Click to expand...

They were interviewing an ambulance driver on TV this morning who said he was panicking as he only had about 40 miles of fuel left and was driving around everywhere until he eventually found a station with some fuel.  Nightmare!  The world is full of idiots.


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## Old Skier (Sep 27, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Not sure if this has been mentioned previously or anyone who knows can answer but what I find most concerning about this is that the emergency services apparently use the same resources as the general public, is that actually true?

I must admit I don't think I have ever seen a police car, ambulance or fire engine filling up at a petrol station yet on the radio and social media I keep hearing about all of these vehicles struggling to fill up and therefore putting the general population in danger given they cannot then respond. I always assumed that those services would have their own sites that they would use to refill and would not be reliant on the same pumps as the rest of us. If that is the case then it doesn't bode well if there really were a breakdown in society that lead to a prolonged period of unavailability.
		
Click to expand...

Own stocks in N Devon.


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## Imurg (Sep 27, 2021)

Regularly see police cars and ambulances filling up at stations around here
I think the fire brigade might have their own supply though...


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## Billysboots (Sep 27, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Not sure if this has been mentioned previously or anyone who knows can answer but what I find most concerning about this is that the emergency services apparently use the same resources as the general public, is that actually true? 

I must admit I don't think I have ever seen a police car, ambulance or fire engine filling up at a petrol station yet on the radio and social media I keep hearing about all of these vehicles struggling to fill up and therefore putting the general population in danger given they cannot then respond. I always assumed that those services would have their own sites that they would use to refill and would not be reliant on the same pumps as the rest of us. If that is the case then it doesn't bode well if there really were a breakdown in society that lead to a prolonged period of unavailability.
		
Click to expand...

The Force I retired from in the spring used to have a fuel supply at its headquarters and a couple of outlying stations, but did away with pumps over 25 years ago. Since then they have used normal filling stations.

All Forces will have long standing contingency plans for just this sort of crisis, but I’m not sure what that will be locally, given all local stations have run dry. Possibly an arrangement with local transport providers who source their own fuel? There will be options.


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## road2ruin (Sep 27, 2021)

Assuming that is the case then (ambulances needing to fill up at regular service stations) surely it shows a massive hole in any disaster planning by the NHS/relevant Government depts? Like I said, I always assumed that they’d have special sites to ensure they’d be kept on the road.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Was listening to the radio this afternoon and a guy was on who was almost attacked at a petrol station for filling jerry cans up with petrol, apparently it was like a lynch mob. Anyway, turns out he works for the RNLI whose boats are filled up that way and they've always gone to the petrol stations in their private vehicles. Just shows that whilst there are plenty of prats out there it's not always what it seems.
		
Click to expand...

I'd back what @IanM has posted. Boats use what used to be called gas oil, effectively diesel without the duty, so massively cheaper. It may be renamed something else but that is what it was called. This will be readily available at any marina, port etc who will have their own tanks. The story has holes in it.


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## Old Skier (Sep 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd back what @IanM has posted. Boats use what used to be called gas oil, effectively diesel without the duty, so massively cheaper. It may be renamed something else but that is what it was called. This will be readily available at any marina, port etc who will have their own tanks. The story has holes in it.
		
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Yep but it does what the media wants, making a story rather than reporting a fact.


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## Jamesbrown (Sep 27, 2021)

Receptionist at our lasses work claimed she couldn’t get any petrol today so wasn’t coming in. They’ve got a few local independent petrol stations on the books so phoned one up to check availability. Turns out they was just getting filled up and opening to friends and family first £1.40 a litre and cash only. Receptionist was sent to the client.


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## Billysboots (Sep 27, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Assuming that is the case then (ambulances needing to fill up at regular service stations) surely it shows a massive hole in any disaster planning by the NHS/relevant Government depts? Like I said, I always assumed that they’d have special sites to ensure they’d be kept on the road.
		
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I suspect our posts crossed, but as I say emergency services have contingency plans for all sorts of eventualities - a fuel shortage will absolutely be something where plans are in place.


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## adam6177 (Sep 27, 2021)

Not quite as important as police and ambulance 😉 but on Sunday morning the Asda filling station was all coned off whilst their delivery vehicles all filled up.....makes perfect sense but riled up some.


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## SaintHacker (Sep 27, 2021)

My works gets a delivery probbably once a month, our tank is massive. Be interesting to know if there is a contingency, that said if the actual supply levels aren't the issue then there shouldn't be a problem.


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## Canary_Yellow (Sep 27, 2021)

Given it isn't possible to hoard petrol / diesel, in the long-term consumption is limited by the amount of driving motorists do. On that basis, if there is really no fuel shortage, this "crisis" will be short lived as there will be a return to the same quantities of fuel being bought. I.e. if someone normally runs their car to nearly empty and then puts £20 in as required, them changing to keeping the tank full and topping up with £20 when it has space makes no different to long term demand, once the system has got over the initial shock of so many people that normally do this buying a full tank of fuel at the same time.

Of course, if there is actually a shortage, it will last longer....


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			My works gets a delivery probbably once a month, our tank is massive. Be interesting to know if there is a contingency, that said if the actual supply levels aren't the issue then there shouldn't be a problem.
		
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I suspect all they will need to do is re order a few days earlier than normal. Anyone with their own tank should be okay as long as they allow a little longer lead time. In effect, your tank is your contingency. You may also have other equivalents who you can 'borrow ' from, favour to be returned or simply to be paid for.

Are you individually allowed to fill up and pay from your company tank in circumstances like this? It would make some sense. After all, if you can't get into work because your car is empty then who drives the coach or bus?


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## larmen (Sep 27, 2021)

When I was at university I earned money at the local steel factory during the holidays. They had their own forecourt where people could fill up from their employees account, so as a temp I didn’t get to use it. It was also diesel only.

With emergency cervices I could imagine they could use MOD forecourts . You can fill a lot of ambulances by not filling a tank once.


But I think CY is right, full is full. People are hardly doing a lap of the M25 just to have space in the tank to queue up again so soon.

Personally I would ‘ban’ jerrycan use for the remainder of the week.


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## Old Skier (Sep 27, 2021)

larmen said:



			When I was at university I earned money at the local steel factory during the holidays. They had their own forecourt where people could fill up from their employees account, so as a temp I didn’t get to use it. It was also diesel only.

With emergency cervices I could imagine they could use MOD forecourts . You can fill a lot of ambulances by not filling a tank once.


But I think CY is right, full is full. People are hardly doing a lap of the M25 just to have space in the tank to queue up again so soon.

Personally I would ‘ban’ jerrycan use for the remainder of the week.
		
Click to expand...

Whats a MOD forecourt?


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## Imurg (Sep 27, 2021)

Looks like I'm out early again tomorrow on the hunt...
I've either got to fill up tomorrow or Wednesday morning at the latest otherwise I'm grounded.
Luckily no tests this week but cancelled lessons is loss of income.
All but 2 garages closed all day today..let's hope they get a delivery..


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2021)

There a good number of military bases with their own petrol stations - hopefully local emergency services will be able to use them


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## IainP (Sep 27, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'd back what @IanM has posted. Boats use what used to be called gas oil, effectively diesel without the duty, so massively cheaper. It may be renamed something else but that is what it was called. This will be readily available at any marina, port etc who will have their own tanks. The story has holes in it.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps not relevant to the story but the majority of outboard engines run on unleaded petrol.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Whats a MOD forecourt?
		
Click to expand...

Ministry of Defence I'd guess.


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## larmen (Sep 27, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Whats a MOD forecourt?
		
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I just assume that the armed forces have some in their barracks? In Germany we filled the tanks there and not at Shell next door.


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## Fade and Die (Sep 27, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Yep but it does what the media wants, making a story rather than reporting a fact.
		
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If this petrol “crisis” isn’t an eye opener of how much the news controls us I don’t know what is!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 27, 2021)

IainP said:



			Perhaps not relevant to the story but the majority of outboard engines run on unleaded petrol.
		
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RNLI would need bigger engines than outboards wouldn't they? I don't know for all of their boats, perhaps there is something in that? I'm not a boat person but I did supply fuel to fishing boats and marinas a good few years ago. Always g/o.


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## IainP (Sep 27, 2021)

I wasn't planning on looking until mid-week but had to pop into town for some shopping, and as there are 4 fuel garages in a small area I did a quick tour. As expected all of them out.
Just for @pauljames87 I did do some eco-driving on my trip to Surrey on Saturday  - although pretty easy with the amount of congestion over that way! 63 mpg there, dropped to 60 for the Sunday return. Not to shabby for an ageing pug 508 (mild) hybrid.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 27, 2021)

IainP said:



			I wasn't planning on looking until mid-week but had to pop into town for some shopping, and as there are 4 fuel garages in a small area I did a quick tour. As expected all of them out.
Just for @pauljames87 I did do some eco-driving on my trip to Surrey on Saturday  - although pretty easy with the amount of congestion over that way! 63 mpg there, dropped to 60 for the Sunday return. Not to shabby for an ageing pug 508 (mild) hybrid.
		
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Nice work!! And if more people did this the fuel would last longer needing less queues 

On my 25 mile drive home I got 20 min delay waiting to get onto the a13 because of queues for petrol station!!


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## adam6177 (Sep 27, 2021)

I see the government are now going to mobilise the army "as a precaution".... This is how stupid we are as a nation.

I wonder if they'll be armed 🤔😉


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## Imurg (Sep 27, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I see the government are now going to mobilise the army "as a precaution".... This is how stupid we are as a nation.

I wonder if they'll be armed 🤔😉
		
Click to expand...

If they're not then they'll just be mobilising Y


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## Mudball (Sep 27, 2021)

Unusual knock on effects....  We have an  important client presentation, just got a message saying that his daughter's school mini bus service is cancelled for tomorrow due to 'fuel shortage crisis'.  He will make the call but will be driving.  Good luck closing that deal. There goes the quarter end deal.. 

A big Fish off to all the morons causing this..   Dont dare even suggest that kids should be walking to school..


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 27, 2021)

Fade and Die said:



			If this petrol “crisis” isn’t an eye opener of *how much the news controls us *I don’t know what is!
		
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Many of us have known this for some time 😳


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## DanFST (Sep 27, 2021)

I filled up just now, was driving past Sainsbury's as they opened just after a delivery. In the 10 minutes I was there queues were already stretched back blocking the road, idiots filling up cans in their boot, not actually in their car. 

Don't normally fill up, but I can't put £20 in every couple of days now with the queues. The Mustang is unusable, luckily I have an old diesel for lugging stuff about, so that's the current daily!


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 27, 2021)

theoneandonly said:



			Because its more than just lorry drives. Don't worry, you keep that head firmly in the sand 😉
		
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It’s been caused by a lack of tests for new drivers.
In all countries not just the one that left the EU.
But you just crack on with Brexit causes every problem.


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## Pants (Sep 27, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Ok…though I note from here yesterday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58701620

the following…

_Ministers are also considering deploying the Army to deliver fuel.
The option is under discussion, and could be examined at a possible cabinet meeting on Monday._

And so today’s headlines

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-58701728

Click to expand...

Just got around to that 2nd link and immediately noticed "But the Guardian believes the possible operation, first conceived during planning for a no-deal Brexit, could take up to three weeks to fully implement, while the Daily Telegraph highlights fears it could take too long to train the military drivers."

My point exactly. See post 192.

Stop digging Hugh.


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

No fuel in Aylesbury at all....
Not looking good for work tomorrow 
Let's hope someone gets a delivery and I can join a queue.....
This is starting to get tiresome.....


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

And when I leave for work there are 3 garages open with queues like there's no tomorrow.
Starting to cancel lessons and focus on those with upcoming tests..
Just another level of I don't need...


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## Ethan (Sep 28, 2021)

Can it be long before some Govt halfwit suggests requiring welfare claimants to make themselves available to push cars that have run out of fuel? It would also slow traffic down to safe speeds.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

Imurg said:



			And when I leave for work there are 3 garages open with queues like there's no tomorrow.
Starting to cancel lessons and focus on those with upcoming tests..
Just another level of I don't need...

Click to expand...

I leave my house 05:30

2 garages on my route to the A12 

One was out of fuel

The Sainsbury's in town.. they again we're queueing and blocking the dual carriageway


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## Mudball (Sep 28, 2021)

Imurg said:



			And when I leave for work there are 3 garages open with queues like there's no tomorrow.
Starting to cancel lessons and focus on those with upcoming tests..
Just another level of I don't need...

Click to expand...

Can you do an HGV testing?.. I hear there is a good demand for it


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 28, 2021)

IanM said:



			Bonkers indeed.........  you're right.  I wonder why folk feel the need to run out there with Jerry Cans... they cant all have just run out somewhere up the road.  How long before we see pics of these folk on Facebook selling the cans for daft prices.

Shortage caused by panic... as the guy said on the news, there is actually more fuel going to stations than normal.  There's still a percentage of folk working from home and not commuting.  Wallies will be wallies.
		
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Which is why there are (increasing) times when the government have to step in to offset the (destabilising and dangerous) effects of the publics behaviour.
Why would it be wrong or unwise to bring in a law that 
no private car can refuel more than X litres,
 no petrol in cans etc.
Exceptions for emergency services and goods vehicles which can fully refuel.

Time to stop the morons.


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## Kellfire (Sep 28, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Which is why there are (increasing) times when the government have to step in to offset the (destabilising and dangerous) effects of the publics behaviour.
Why would it be wrong or unwise to bring in a law that
no private car can refuel more than X litres,
no petrol in cans etc.
Exceptions for emergency services and goods vehicles which can fully refuel.

Time to stop the morons.
		
Click to expand...

Because some people drive a lot?


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## IanM (Sep 28, 2021)

I am sure you are right... but of course the Trots would object if they do, and object if they don't.  Glad I am not working in Government!  (ok, only a little bit of it!)


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## IanM (Sep 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Because some people drive a lot?
		
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No, cos some people are dumb enough to go bonkers and strip the shelves of big roll, pasta, etc etc etc etc if they think there will be a shortage


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## RichA (Sep 28, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Why would it be wrong or unwise to bring in a law that no private car can refuel more than X litres.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that mean more refuelling and longer queues?


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Because some people drive a lot?
		
Click to expand...

Then they will be getting their X litres more often than me🙄
But they won't be filling up jerry cans and queuing for petrol to fill up the last quarter of the tank.
What's your remedy for what is going on then?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Because some people drive a lot?
		
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250 miles a week for me on average which I'd say is above average but not high


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Pants said:



			Just got around to that 2nd link and immediately noticed "But the Guardian believes the possible operation, first conceived during planning for a no-deal Brexit, could take up to three weeks to fully implement, while the Daily Telegraph highlights fears it could take too long to train the military drivers."

My point exactly. See post 192.

Stop digging Hugh. 

Click to expand...

See my post 39 in which I called for immediate involvement to reassure and reduce anxiety in the public.  I accept that they can’t actually be on the road today, but they can be mobilised today, and that is what the government has now done. Indeed I have heard reported that some service tankers are ready to go today - they are on stand-by. The right thing. I don’t know that the government can do much more than provide us with a bit of leadership - and perhaps prioritisation and guidance to suppliers on limits we can buy.  It is up to us.


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 28, 2021)

RichA said:



			Wouldn't that mean more refuelling and longer queues?
		
Click to expand...

The reason we have this crisis is because those garages not affected by the non delivery of fuel (because of not enough drivers) are being "raided" by morons who are taking as much fuel as they can load into their vehicles and jerry cans ( in a short timeline as a result of our wonderful media ) and thus those garages are running out of fuel too.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 28, 2021)

On a happier note, the garages in the town where I work were empty from mid Sunday onwards. They were re-filled yesterday afternoon and understandably there was a rush for people to buy fuel. The queues were not daft but people had a need. I drove into work this morning, no queues, the odd car filling up, no covers on pumps. It is not a high population area so demand is not daft but at least here the initial surge has calmed down.


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## RichA (Sep 28, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			The reason we have this crisis is because those garages not affected by the non delivery of fuel (because of not enough drivers) are being "raided" by morons who are taking as much fuel as they can load into their vehicles and jerry cans ( in a short timeline as a result of our wonderful media ) and thus those garages are running out of fuel too.
		
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The reports I've read and heard were suggesting the problem has been caused by large numbers of drivers buying small quantities, rather than large.
The truth is out there somewhere, but we'll probably never know what it is.


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## larmen (Sep 28, 2021)

How much more expensive is fuel now? 10p? More? Why fill up a Jerry can now at higher prices when you can just fill your car to lower prices next week. Optimistically speaking.


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

Well, thats me gone completely insane..
Joined the queue at tesco..After half an hour I'd moved 20 yards and then some spotty youth in a Tesco hoodie and high viz tells me they've run out of diesel. 
I think I'm going to take the rest of the week off....


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## Piece (Sep 28, 2021)

I managed to get £30 last night quite easily. Small queue, with strict limit on £30 and NO jerry cans. All amiable. 

Interestingly, my wife phoned me 2 mins before saying the station I was going to had a massive queue, blocking the surrounding roads - all this info from Facebook from "informed" posters. The reality was somewhat pleasingly different.


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## jim8flog (Sep 28, 2021)

Neilds said:



			People need to realise that more lorry drivers (whether from the Army/Navy/RAF or the EU) is not the answer to the fuel 'issue'.  What we need is tanker drivers. May seem a bit pedantic but to drive a tanker you need other qualifications/certificates and just pulling a standard HGV driver into the job is not the answer if they can't drive the tanker or get the fuel from the tanker to the tanks in the filling stations.  It is a bit more complicated than a lot of people seem to realise - but the extra drivers will be able to deliver our Christmas presents 

Click to expand...

 How many tankers do you think the army, air force and navy own. There are probably more than enough qualified drivers in the forces to get over the problem in the short term. They were used in a previous fuel crisis.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			The reason we have this crisis is because those garages not affected by the non delivery of fuel (because of not enough drivers) are being "raided" by morons who are taking as much fuel as they can load into their vehicles and jerry cans ( in a short timeline as a result of our wonderful media ) and thus those garages are running out of fuel too.
		
Click to expand...

There are many reasons that can be put forward for this happening, but there is little point in trying to discuss them as doing so can only drop straight into the political and so fall foul of board editorial policy. Were it to be suggested that the subject could be discussed without political reference would be disingenuous.


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## Beezerk (Sep 28, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On a happier note, the garages in the town where I work were empty from mid Sunday onwards. They were re-filled yesterday afternoon and understandably there was a rush for people to buy fuel. The queues were not daft but people had a need. I drove into work this morning, no queues, the odd car filling up, no covers on pumps. It is not a high population area so demand is not daft but at least here the initial surge has calmed down.
		
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Same near me, local Morissons looked normal over the weekend, drove past 3 or 4 garages this morning and no queues at all. Maybe it's just us Northern Monkeys who are the sensible ones 😁


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Same near me, local Morissons looked normal over the weekend, drove past 3 or 4 garages this morning and no queues at all. Maybe it's just us Northern Monkeys who are the sensible ones 😁
		
Click to expand...

The monkeys down here aren't even as smart as monkeys....I'd say more like that Bluebottle that keeps bumping into the window when the opening is 3 inches to the left...


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## Neilds (Sep 28, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			How many tankers do you think the army, air force and navy own. There are probably more than enough qualified drivers in the forces to get over the problem in the short term. They were used in a previous fuel crisis.
		
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I agree there are probably enough drivers but, as stated on the news today, they will still need 5 days training to learn how to get the fuel into and out of the tankers into the filling stations. Hopefully by the time they are trained we won’t need them as the situation should have calmed down as all the muppets will have full tanks


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## DanFST (Sep 28, 2021)

Did fill up a jerry can for the mower, felt like a complete richard.


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## Ethan (Sep 28, 2021)

IanM said:



			I am sure you are right... but of course the Trots would object if they do, and object if they don't.  Glad I am not working in Government!  (ok, only a little bit of it!)
		
Click to expand...

So why are some posts deleted as political but posts complaining about "Trots", as if there actually are any such people involved, are OK?


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 28, 2021)

Neilds said:



			I agree there are probably enough drivers but, as stated on the news today, they will still need 5 days training to *learn how to get the fuel into and out of the tankers into the filling stations.* Hopefully by the time they are trained we won’t need them as the situation should have calmed down as all the muppets will have full tanks
		
Click to expand...

That will be 1 hours training and the rest watching safety videos. They unload via gravity. Attach the pipe, open the valve, wait until the tank is empty. Repeat for all tanks on the wagon. Loading is similar, with the pipes being overhead, pouring into each tank via the top of the tanker. Loading and unloading single drop fuel tankers is a doddle. The bit to really concentrate on is making sure everyone is safe. Pretty important to be fair but if you are already a competent hgv driver then 5 days is stretching it out big time.


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			See my post 39 in which I called for immediate involvement to reassure and reduce anxiety in the public.  I accept that they can’t actually be on the road today, but they can be mobilised today, and that is what the government has now done. Indeed I have heard reported that some service tankers are ready to go today - they are on stand-by. The right thing. I don’t know that the government can do much more than provide us with a bit of leadership - and perhaps prioritisation and guidance to suppliers on limits we can buy.  It is up to us.
		
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There are under 200 tankers used by the MILITARY at the last count that hold 20,000 Lars of fuel each mostly diesel and aviation fuel, they will all need flushing if they are to be used for petrol. Most fuel carriers in the military are small bowsers that also will need flushing. Many of the tankers are used by the RAF and remember, they only work Mon-Fri 0900-1600 hrs 

Will you see some on the road, possibly, will they have much effect. I’ll let you do the numbers.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			There are under 200 tankers used by the MILITARY at the last count that hold 20,000 Lars of fuel each mostly diesel and aviation fuel, they will all need flushing if they are to be used for petrol. Most fuel carriers in the military are small bowsers that also will need flushing. Many of the tankers are used by the RAF and remember, they only work Mon-Fri 0900-1600 hrs 

Will you see some on the road, possibly, will they have much effect. I’ll let you do the numbers.
		
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That’s fine…I get that…but surely mobilising the services is aimed at the psychological as much as the logical.

If I accept that this issue has been caused by idiots (which I do in some part) then to try to persuade these idiots through logical argument will likely fail.  But the pending presence of servicemen delivering fuel (and pending may be all that’s required)  is real and practical, and I’d hope would have more chance of success.  Well at least that’s what it seems the government is hoping, so it’s not just me.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			There are under 200 tankers used by the MILITARY at the last count that hold 20,000 Lars of fuel each mostly diesel and aviation fuel, they will all need flushing if they are to be used for petrol. Most fuel carriers in the military are small bowsers that also will need flushing. Many of the tankers are used by the RAF and remember, they only work Mon-Fri 0900-1600 hrs 

Will you see some on the road, possibly, will they have much effect. I’ll let you do the numbers.
		
Click to expand...

If the shortage is of numbers of drivers why won't the military drivers be using existing tankers?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

So all the talk of key workers getting special status to get fuel

Didn't the last lockdown mean every single man and his dog was a key worker?


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If the shortage is of numbers of drivers why won't the military drivers be using existing tankers?
		
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Because there is still only a limited number of drivers with the necessary licences.


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So all the talk of key workers getting special status to get fuel

Didn't the last lockdown mean every single man and his dog was a key worker?
		
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And how are Key Workers going to get through the massive queues?


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## road2ruin (Sep 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So all the talk of key workers getting special status to get fuel

Didn't the last lockdown mean every single man and his dog was a key worker?
		
Click to expand...

For me that'll just end up with the general public thinking that there must be more of an issue that anyone is letting on if they're going to start allowing certain groups to get fuel. What we are being told is that within a day or so this will all be fine, if that's the case then we don't need to start having groups being allowed in to refuel. As you say, last time the key worker list was extensive, I think I was one of the few people that wasn't listed!


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That’s fine…I get that…but surely mobilising the services is aimed at the psychological as much as the logical.

If I accept that this issue has been caused by idiots (which I do in some part) then to try to persuade these idiots through logical argument will likely fail.  But the pending presence of servicemen delivering fuel is real and practical, and I’d hope would have more chance of success.  Well at least that’s what it seems the government is hoping, so it’s not just me.
		
Click to expand...

From experience putting military on the streets for anything causes more public concern not less. 

It did result in a good number of well made cakes though.


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## larmen (Sep 28, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I think I'm going to take the rest of the week off....
		
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The fewer people you train the shorter the queues down the line.

But seriously, is there a longer term plan of training students on electric vehicles?
I learned stuff in my CBT which are already redundant on my NIU scooter.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			From experience putting military on the streets for anything causes more public concern not less.

It did result in a good number of well made cakes though.
		
Click to expand...

Well you need to direct and voice your concerns towards the government who, given your view on this matter, you must believe clearly don’t understand that it is both impractical and risks worsening the situation.  Meanwhile I will accept your voice of experience and no longer argue for military involvement.


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## adam6177 (Sep 28, 2021)

I see the highlighted video on sky news of a lady filling up water bottles with petrol.

I don't know if I'm more upset about her filling the water bottles with petrol.... Or the fact that she poured the water in a bin first.  Who pours liquid in a bin?

Just proof again that people need protection from themselves.... But yet people like this get as much of a say as the rest of us.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

Imurg said:



			And how are Key Workers going to get through the massive queues?
		
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During the fuel issues in early 2000s certain stations were key workers only and they were directed there


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well you need to direct and voice your concerns towards the government who, given your view on this matter, you must believe clearly don’t understand that it is both impractical and risks worsening the situation.  Meanwhile I will accept your voice of experience and no longer argue for military involvement.
		
Click to expand...

You convinced me, I’m off to work


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## larmen (Sep 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			So all the talk of key workers getting special status to get fuel

Didn't the last lockdown mean every single man and his dog was a key worker?
		
Click to expand...

The key worker was for child care, the ones with priority access to shops were emergency services and nhs.

Still think the key worker stuff is wrong because of what you already hint at.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

larmen said:



			The key worker was for child care, the ones with priority access to shops were emergency services and nhs.

Still think the key worker stuff is wrong because of what you already hint at.
		
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There is a massive difference between key and essential workers 

Railway industry is always essential as we allow millions to get to work without the need for a blooming car

Pleased to report our ridership is up.. finally people realise you don't have to drive just because you can


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

larmen said:



			The fewer people you train the shorter the queues down the line.

But seriously, is there a longer term plan of training students on electric vehicles?
I learned stuff in my CBT which are already redundant on my NIU scooter.
		
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I've touched on this in previous threads..
At some point EV tests(automatic) will take over from manual ICE tests.
As we won't be able to buy new ICE cars, from whenever it is, the switch to EV is an issue of timing.
Most instructors run fairly new cars - you get warranties and they're less likely to fall apart.they do take a bit of a hammering.
As EV takes over, more and more instructors will switch
The problem is that your average test pass is in the 17-20 age range and they're not going to be able to afford an EV as their first car.
It'll be an old manual car - but their test will have been an automatic test and so they won't be allowed to drive a manual...
Catch 22 - stay manual and hope your car holds together or switch and have pupils pass who then can't afford an EV.
Its going to be a good few years before EV 2nd hand prices drop, in the necessary numbers, to the level of a current 15 year old manual Fiesta.
Hopefully, for me, I'll be out of the game before the song and dance begins..


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well you need to direct and voice your concerns towards the government who, given your view on this matter, you must believe clearly don’t understand that it is both impractical and risks worsening the situation.  Meanwhile I will accept your voice of experience and no longer argue for military involvement.
		
Click to expand...

I don’t have any concerns, not sure where I wrote that.  Having been the lackie for a few governments of all colours ranging from digging graves, picking up the public’s bins, flood and snow relief and being a non trained fireman I get slightly hacked of when a member of the public shouts for the military to deal with something that, if it wasn’t for the normal selfish public, is not required.


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## SatchFan (Sep 28, 2021)

The man from Timpsons is definitely a key worker.


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## Fade and Die (Sep 28, 2021)

I’ll definitely be banging my pots and pans on Thursday for the Tanker Drivers!😁


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## GB72 (Sep 28, 2021)

The whole key worker thing is clearly a matter of some debate. Where do you draw the line. I had a key worker letter from the last lockdown as solicitors who worked in the preparation of wills (I helped our firm with the rush as the pandemic kicked in) but really do not consider myself one. Does anyone with an NHS ID count or is it only frontline staff and their necessary support (guessing there is quite a bit of back office admin in the NHS as well as those doing vital medical work). If they are not on base, how do the forces get to work to help out etc. Suddenly your list of key workers does not massively limit who gets to use reserved petrol stations.


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## DanFST (Sep 28, 2021)

GB72 said:



			The whole key worker thing is clearly a matter of some debate. Where do you draw the line.
		
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Agreed, as a head of marketing for a financial services company i'm included. 

Do I need special access to fuel? No.


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

Surely I just qualify?
I train people to pass their driving tests so they can go out and buy a car and then fill up with pe.....oh hang on a minute


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## road2ruin (Sep 28, 2021)

GB72 said:



			The whole key worker thing is clearly a matter of some debate. Where do you draw the line. I had a key worker letter from the last lockdown as solicitors who worked in the preparation of wills (I helped our firm with the rush as the pandemic kicked in) but really do not consider myself one. Does anyone with an NHS ID count or is it only frontline staff and their necessary support (guessing there is quite a bit of back office admin in the NHS as well as those doing vital medical work). If they are not on base, how do the forces get to work to help out etc. Suddenly your list of key workers does not massively limit who gets to use reserved petrol stations.
		
Click to expand...

We've got friends who work for in media and they were classed as key workers as if they were journalists however one worked in accounts whilst the other in the digital marketing department. They made full use of the key worker status in terms of having their kids in school throughout the pandemic and to be fair I didn't blame them, they were put on a list and made the most of it.


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## SatchFan (Sep 28, 2021)

Grant Shapps says the fuel supply issue is starting to stabilize. Perhaps we are just finally running out of idiots.


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## Imurg (Sep 28, 2021)

SatchFan said:



			Grant Shapps says the fuel supply issue is starting to stabilize. Perhaps we are just finally running out of idiots.
		
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Plenty round here still..half the town is in a queue


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## IanM (Sep 28, 2021)

Ethan said:



			So why are some posts deleted as political but posts complaining about "Trots", as if there actually are any such people involved, are OK?
		
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Gosh, there are several threads that cannot be anything else... Given the context of what it replied to, I'd would have hoped that you would have seen the attempt at humour or the irony of certain left-leaning members of this esteemed forum calling for "troops on the streets!"

Apologies for any offence caused! 

This situation is one of Joe Public's own making.  Sadly.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Did fill up a jerry can for the mower, felt like a complete richard.
		
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I work for a turf management company and we need fuel for the mowers.
Most here won’t let you fill Jerry’s.
The boss is scratching his head as almost every one is closed.


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

IanM said:



			Gosh, there are several threads that cannot be anything else... Given the context of what it replied to, I'd would have hoped that you would have seen the attempt at humour or the irony of certain left-leaning members of this esteemed forum calling for "troops on the streets!"

Apologies for any offence caused!

This situation is one of Joe Public's own making.  Sadly.
		
Click to expand...

Never blame the public, especially the public that are causing the problems.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Surely I just qualify?
I train people to pass their driving tests so they can go out and buy a car and then fill up with pe.....oh hang on a minute

Click to expand...

This is basically your fault.

Pity we don’t have lessons in not being a dick.( general public do qualify.)

Most NHS staff were off work during the pandemic due to the kids being off school.
So add Teachers and school staff to that list.


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## GB72 (Sep 28, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Agreed, as a head of marketing for a financial services company i'm included.

Do I need special access to fuel? No.
		
Click to expand...

Plus the cynic in me thinks that you would need to associate a car with an ID badge or you will have people filling up cars for their friends and family.


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## GB72 (Sep 28, 2021)

There is, however, a wonderful irony that we have had a few weeks of people complaining that they do not need to go back to the office and can work from home post pandemic and now we have the world and his wife arguing that they need petrol to get in to the office to work.


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## larmen (Sep 28, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Plus the cynic in me thinks that you would need to associate a car with an ID badge or you will have people filling up cars for their friends and family.
		
Click to expand...

We could make key workers drive a Fiat Multipla or Crysler PT Cruiser. No one else would want to be seen in one.


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## Robster59 (Sep 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I work for a turf management company and we need fuel for the mowers.
Most here won’t let you fill Jerry’s.
The boss is scratching his head as almost every one is closed.
		
Click to expand...

Problem solved!


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## SocketRocket (Sep 28, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			This is basically your fault.
*
Pity we don’t have lessons in not being a dick.( general public do qualify.)*

Most NHS staff were off work during the pandemic due to the kids being off school.
So add Teachers and school staff to that list.
		
Click to expand...

Are you advocating National Service ?  😄


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## cliveb (Sep 28, 2021)

I find it interesting that a situation initially caused by a small minority of panic buyers has resulted in a much larger section of the public being forced to join in.

Exhibit #1: myself. We need to visit my elderly mother-in-law on Thursday. I had enough petrol to get there, but not back. Under normal circumstances I'd have driven there and filled up before returning. But current circumstances mean I can't risk that, so today I made a special journey to Tescos, joined the queue, and filled up before I would normally have done. I've effectively been forced to become part of the problem and make it marginally worse.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			Problem solved!
View attachment 38714

Click to expand...

Most modern cars and vans have a anti siphoning system .
You have to use the pipe into the fuel injectors and short the fuse on the pump.
Don’t fancy that 

Or just drill a hole in your tank, seen that one on the news.
Little scroats robbing it already.


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## clubchamp98 (Sep 28, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Are you advocating National Service ?  😄
		
Click to expand...

Looking at the age of people in the ques there must be a percentage that were in the military.
But if you need fuel you need it.
It’s the ones who don’t need it that are the problem.


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## AliMc (Sep 28, 2021)

Drove past Asda at Dunbar twice on way to and from golf course, no queues either time, still limited to £30 worth each I think


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If the shortage is of numbers of drivers why won't the military drivers be using existing tankers?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly 😀


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Because there is still only a limited number of drivers with the necessary licences.
		
Click to expand...

The military " commandeering", if necessary, the tankers  means that the licenses you speak of ,don't come into it.
The military have drivers who can drive tankers. They have been given training how to load and unload fuel from them: they are tasked to drive the tankers and deliver fuel.
Licences? What licences. ?  You are talking about the military!


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			From experience putting military on the streets for anything causes more public concern not less. 

It did result in a good number of well made cakes though.
		
Click to expand...

This isn't a military junta situation🙄

This is a reassurance that something is being done to relieve a situation about which the public already have a concern.
When Drs are expressing concern that they cannot properly do their jobs because of this situation, then there is some concern, methinks.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

BP garage on a127 queue for a mile but it was just being filled


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## SaintHacker (Sep 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			If the shortage is of numbers of drivers why won't the military drivers be using existing tankers?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure how that would work legally. Military vehicles are not fitted with tachographs so the drivers dont need to have a card, and the necessary cpc training for a commercial hgv licence. I assume there must be some sort of emergency legislation to allow them to drive vehicles fitted with tachos, but who knows?


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			Not sure how that would work legally. Military vehicles are not fitted with tachographs so the drivers dont need to have a card, and the necessary cpc training for a commercial hgv licence. I assume there must be some sort of emergency legislation to allow them to drive vehicles fitted with tachos, but who knows?
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure it would be suspended in such situations 

Just like the Monopoly laws to try and help


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## Ethan (Sep 28, 2021)

IanM said:



			Gosh, there are several threads that cannot be anything else... Given the context of what it replied to, I'd would have hoped that you would have seen the attempt at humour or the irony of certain left-leaning members of this esteemed forum calling for "troops on the streets!"

Apologies for any offence caused!

This situation is one of Joe Public's own making.  Sadly.
		
Click to expand...

It could indeed be ironic, although the lefties you reference may be happy to see it as a front page symbol of a Govt having lost control. 

Personally, I think the Daily Wail regular story of troops on the streets, in the hospitals, manning the toilet roll aisle in Morrisons, whatever, has dulled the likely public response somewhat.


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			The military " commandeering", if necessary, the tankers  means that the licenses you speak of ,don't come into it.
The military have drivers who can drive tankers. They have been given training how to load and unload fuel from them: they are tasked to drive the tankers and deliver fuel.
Licences? What licences. ?  You are talking about the military!
		
Click to expand...

Who have to have the same licences as the public to drive on public roads.


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			This isn't a military junta situation🙄

This is a reassurance that something is being done to relieve a situation about which the public already have a concern.
When Drs are expressing concern that they cannot properly do their jobs because of this situation, then there is some concern, methinks.
		
Click to expand...

If they are to be used so that the public can panic buy, apparently, according to the news they will be ready in 5 days.


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## larmen (Sep 28, 2021)

Once the military is mobilised can they use it to hunt turkeys? I would like to see a SAS guy hunting one down. But then, we probably wouldn't see him, we would just suddenly not see the turkey anymore.


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

larmen said:



			Once the military is mobilised can they use it to hunt turkeys? I would like to see a SAS guy hunting one down. But then, we probably wouldn't see him, we would just suddenly not see the turkey anymore.
		
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Turkeys will stay clear of balconies


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

Mate just sent a video he took while waiting to fill up of a woman filling a plastic carrier bag with fuel after she’d filled her car. As she lifted the bag it burst open 

Today’s Darwin Award.


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## IanM (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Mate just sent a video he took while waiting to fill up of a woman filling a plastic carrier bag with fuel after she’d filled her car. As she lifted the bag it burst open 

Today’s Darwin Award.
		
Click to expand...

I think this needs posting. Was it a spoof video?


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## Dando (Sep 28, 2021)

One of the ladies mrs d cleans for said a lady in front of her yesterday put just over £2 in the car


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Mate just sent a video he took while waiting to fill up of a woman filling a plastic carrier bag with fuel after she’d filled her car. As she lifted the bag it burst open 

Today’s Darwin Award.
		
Click to expand...

That's been doing the rounds for a few days .. think it's an old video


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

IanM said:



			I think this needs posting. Was it a spoof video?
		
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No it’s real. Just can’t figure how to get it off What’s App


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			That's been doing the rounds for a few days .. think it's an old video
		
Click to expand...

Your right, just seen it’s been forwarded a few times.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Your right, just seen it’s been forwarded a few times.
		
Click to expand...

There is one on twitter of a lady filling a water bottle


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## 3offTheTee (Sep 28, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Drove past Asda at Dunbar twice on way to and from golf course, no queues either time, still limited to £30 worth each I think
		
Click to expand...

Best news I have heard all,week. Staying in Dunbar for 3 nights on Sunday playing North Berwick on Monday and Goswick Links on Wednesday. If you read this which are the best restaurants in Dunbar please? Understand The Creel is closed


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## 3offTheTee (Sep 28, 2021)

Sky hs somebody at the pumps this morning. He filled a Jerry can after his vehicle and the cost was £99 plus


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## pauljames87 (Sep 28, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Sky hs somebody at the pumps this morning. He filled a Jerry can after his vehicle and the cost was £99 plus

Click to expand...

Have to admit with the price of fuel the Alhambra from empty to full would be £90 plus maybe even £100


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## Beezerk (Sep 28, 2021)

AliMc said:



			Drove past Asda at Dunbar twice on way to and from golf course, no queues either time, still limited to £30 worth each I think
		
Click to expand...

Strange how some areas are worse than others, finished work early so headed up to a Morissons not far from the customer (just off main road out of Newcastle). Pulled straight in, filled up with £65 worth of diesel and drove out, all stress free.


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## IanM (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			No it’s real. Just can’t figure how to get it off What’s App
		
Click to expand...

https://fullfact.org/online/petrol-panic-forecourt-esso-tooting-false/


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## BiMGuy (Sep 28, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Sky hs somebody at the pumps this morning. He filled a Jerry can after his vehicle and the cost was £99 plus

Click to expand...

Maybe he needed the Jerry can filled to put in other machinery for work?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			I don’t have any concerns, not sure where I wrote that.  Having been the lackie for a few governments of all colours ranging from digging graves, picking up the public’s bins, flood and snow relief and being a non trained fireman I get slightly hacked of when a member of the public shouts for the military to deal with something that, if it wasn’t for the normal selfish public, is not required.
		
Click to expand...

I’m afraid that i took as criticism your responses to my suggestions to mobilise the military - both yourself and others who liked your posts and posted similar criticism,   And therefore i expect the same criticism and observations to be levelled at the government.  Not holding my breath though.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

IanM said:



			Gosh, there are several threads that cannot be anything else... Given the context of what it replied to, I'd would have hoped that you would have seen the attempt at humour or the irony of certain left-leaning members of this esteemed forum calling for "troops on the streets!"

Apologies for any offence caused!

This situation is one of Joe Public's own making.  Sadly.
		
Click to expand...

Watch out though.  Someone of my immediate acquaintance got a two week ban for posting a jokey politically flavoured response to a jokey political post.🙄


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I’m afraid that i took as criticism your responses to my suggestions to mobilise the military - both yourself and others who liked your posts and posted similar criticism,   And therefore i expect the same criticism and observations to be levelled at the government.  Not holding my breath though.
		
Click to expand...

It was a criticism and members of the armed forces have not been mobilised, approx 400 have been put on standby for a couple of tasks if required.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			It was a criticism and members of the armed forces have not been mobilised, approx 400 have been put on standby for a couple of tasks if required.
		
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ah ok.  So putting military at standbye to do something is not the same as and quite different to mobilising them to do something.  

Now I might understand that, but do the ’idiots’ (not my description) out there appreciate the difference sufficient for them not to consider military at standby being an indicator of things possibly continuing or getting worse for a bit.  Your concern.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 28, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			ah ok.  So putting military at standbye to do something is not the same as mobilising them to do something.  That’s ok then.
		
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Time to take a breath - there are always units within the various branches that will be on standby for many different scenarios - floods are one of the more recent incidents , fire strikes etc etc 

There will be a small amount of people who have had their leave cancelled for example or be put on 2 hour notice etc - 

The military havent been “mobilised” as you say


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Time to take a breath - there are always units within the various branches that will be on standby for many different scenarios - floods are one of the more recent incidents , fire strikes etc etc

There will be a small amount of people who have had their leave cancelled for example or be put on 2 hour notice etc -

The military havent been “mobilised” as you say
		
Click to expand...

I didn’t actually say they had been mobilised (though I did suggest that they should be ASAP) but the ‘idiots’ might not appreciate the difference.  Anyway, 300 are being trained up to be deployed if needs must.  This is a good thing as it indicates forward thinking.


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## Old Skier (Sep 28, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			ah ok.  So putting military at standbye to do something is not the same as and quite different to mobilising them to do something.  That’s ok then. I might understand that, but do the ’idiots’ (not my description) out there appreciate the difference.
		
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Standby - might be needed
Mobilised - forces actually doing something

I have no idea if the selfish idiots understand the difference but they are the ones that cry out for the forces every time they want there life made easy without a though how this might affect those that have to change their plans to satisfy their selfish whims.

You never know, some of these people may even had holidays or other things booked with their families. I hope you enjoyed your trip away.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Standby - might be needed
Mobilised - forces actually doing something

I have no idea if the selfish idiots understand the difference but they are the ones that cry out for the forces every time they want there life made easy without a though how this might affect those that have to change their plans to satisfy their selfish whims.

You never know, some of these people may even had holidays or other things booked with their families. I hope you enjoyed your trip away.
		
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Cool thing is that I have been trying to agree with you…though it seems that I may not have been doing that very well as my understanding of ‘mobilising’ has been closer to ’bringing to readiness’.  Having them ‘doing the doing‘ is ‘deployment’.  Anyway - that’s just words 👍😍


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## SocketRocket (Sep 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			No it’s real. Just can’t figure how to get it off What’s App
		
Click to expand...

This one's been around for some time but amusing.
https://youtube.com/shorts/PFPVUzZA4qg?feature=share


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## harpo_72 (Sep 29, 2021)

Would be nice to know current status of local stations.. I haven’t popped my head out the door so I don’t know whether it’s all started to calm down or still being stupid. I cannot trust the media as they struggle with the facts .. think they need to be put in check for this scenario


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## Dando (Sep 29, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Would be nice to know current status of local stations.. I haven’t popped my head out the door so I don’t know whether it’s all started to calm down or still being stupid. I cannot trust the media as they struggle with the facts .. think they need to be put in check for this scenario
		
Click to expand...

Apparently most near me (Welling) are out of unleaded


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## Smiffy (Sep 29, 2021)

I've gone back into the electric 2008.
Cushty.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 29, 2021)

Things seem normal in my local region, no queues, no supply problems.


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## RichA (Sep 29, 2021)

Our local Tesco last night had no diesel but plenty of unleaded. No queue. 
Sainsbury's had a full supply of everything. A long, but very well marshalled queue through their car park kept the nearby roads clear and I  was able to go from a nearly empty to completely full tank within 15 minutes of joining the queue.
I've never experienced range anxiety before (driving range excepted). It's an interesting insight into what electric car ownership will entail in a few years.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

RichA said:



			Our local Tesco last night had no diesel but plenty of unleaded. No queue.
Sainsbury's had a full supply of everything. A long, but very well marshalled queue through their car park kept the nearby roads clear and I  was able to go from a nearly empty to completely full tank within 15 minutes of joining the queue.
I've never experienced range anxiety before (driving range excepted). It's an interesting insight into what electric car ownership will entail in a few years.
		
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Tbh I'm 8 months in and you really don't even think about it after a couple weeks

You know (If you can) that home is always available so like last night I had 27% .. this morning 88% (as I left an hour before the cheap hours ended) that 88% will easily do me rest of week including the weekend


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## pendodave (Sep 29, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Things seem normal in my local region, no queues, no supply problems.
		
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I wonder how much of the variation is due to the really small numbers of stations in the south east of England. I live in a town of 20000. We have one station. Our next door town is also 20000 and has one. There is another station between the two. So 40000 people and a pretty large hinterland of villages in addition to that. With 3 stations.
Dunbar (mentioned above) population 10000. 3 stations. 

Our fuel distribution is so "efficient" that the tiniest thing can tip it over the edge. Same with food distribution with the consolidating of the sector into a tiny number of big players. 

Down here, daily life hangs by a thread... (but the accountants are loving the cost efficiencies).


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## bobmac (Sep 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			You know (If you can) that home is always available so like last night I had 27% .. this morning 88% (as I left an hour before the cheap hours ended) that 88% will easily do me rest of week including the weekend
		
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Ah, but I'll bet you pay through the nose for having that convenient way of refuelling without having to trawl around town looking for a garage with a queue.


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## 3offTheTee (Sep 29, 2021)

I hold my hand up and offer apologies. I have hoarded 4 and am sure I will receive some abuse on here. unsure what to do if Tesco do not receive a supply soon.

I froze them in the freezer but hopefully if I use one MINCE PIE per week I should be OK until the end of October


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## Old Skier (Sep 29, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			I hold my hand up and offer apologies. I have hoarded 4 and am sure I will receive some abuse on here. unsure what to do if Tesco do not receive a supply soon.

I froze them in the freezer but hopefully if I use one MINCE PIE per week I should be OK until the end of October

Click to expand...

Could raise a fortune on H4H day.


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## Mudball (Sep 29, 2021)




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## BiMGuy (Sep 29, 2021)

We've now got local FB groups reporting on fuel availability.

I know one of the organisers. I might put a google maps pin on their address and label it a petrol station.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			We've now got local FB groups reporting on fuel availability.

I know one of the organisers. I might put a google maps pin on their address and label it a petrol station.
		
Click to expand...

This has been going on since day 1 our way 

Prob why their queues


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## 4LEX (Sep 29, 2021)

The petrol stations are to blame as well, they should have a £25 cap per customer to stop hoarding of fuel in cars or cans that simply isn't required. But they don't care, as they get to hike the prices up and make more money.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

Romish rangernathan did a stand up few years back 

He said if he was head of strategy for Isis he would advise them to stop this whole blowing up the west .. just mildy inconvenience people ..that really annoys us 

Got to wonder if they watched it and got into British government planning


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## harpo_72 (Sep 29, 2021)

Just went and had a look for fuel within a mile radius of me , both out of action. I will chuck my mower petrol can in the boot and if I stop I will use that.

Likewise I will fill that up as well as the lawn will need mowing… what an utter waste of time all of this really is and the behaviour is horrific


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## road2ruin (Sep 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The petrol stations are to blame as well, they should have a £25 cap per customer to stop hoarding of fuel in cars or cans that simply isn't required. But they don't care, as they get to hike the prices up and make more money.
		
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But how do you distinguish between those who are hoarding/buying more than they need and those who drive miles and don’t want to have to go through the battle of refilling every £25?  

Must admit it’s a disgrace that the petrol stations are allowed to jack up prices, pure profiteering especially as there isn’t a shortage!


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## Beezerk (Sep 29, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			But how do you distinguish between those who are hoarding/buying more than they need and those who drive miles and don’t want to have to go through the battle of refilling every £25?
		
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Me and my colleagues can do anything from 150 to 1500 miles a week depending on job location, filling up £25 a time just wouldn't work. The hire van I currently have takes £95 to fill up for christs sake 😮


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## DanFST (Sep 29, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			Me and my colleagues can do anything from 150 to 1500 miles a week depending on job location, filling up £25 a time just wouldn't work. The hire van I currently have takes £95 to fill up for christs sake 😮
		
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£25 would get me 55 miles in my car.....


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## Beezerk (Sep 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			£25 would get me 55 miles in my car.....
		
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Local jobs only then, win win 😆


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## Imurg (Sep 29, 2021)

Still crap around here..
One garage opens and the hoardes descend...
One of the Tesco stations had diesel this morning but, from what I could see, every transit sized van or slightly bigger in the whole of eternity was already in the queue.
Unsurprisingly they have no diesel now.....
Still not been able to refill and im just going to take the rest of the week off.
I have enough to get me to and from the club a few times but nothing more.

Almost feels like a semi-lockdown.......


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Still crap around here..
One garage opens and the hoardes descend...
One of the Tesco stations had diesel this morning but, from what I could see, every transit sized van or slightly bigger in the whole of eternity was already in the queue.
Unsurprisingly they have no diesel now.....
Still not been able to refill and im just going to take the rest of the week off.
I have enough to get me to and from the club a few times but nothing more.

Almost feels like a semi-lockdown.......

Click to expand...

Maybe if they had told petrol stations to fill up to key workers only during lockdown people would have had to stick to it more


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Maybe if they had told petrol stations to fill up to key workers only during lockdown people would have had to stick to it more
		
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As I think you pointed out earlier in this thread, half the country or more seemed to qualify as a key worker so I am not sure adding that to the restriction makes much difference.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As I think you pointed out earlier in this thread, half the country or more seemed to qualify as a key worker so I am not sure adding that to the restriction makes much difference.
		
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The first proper lockdown key workers were key workers 

The roads were dead on my way to work .. I used to cruise in at 50. About 5 other cars. Bearly used fuel as was never traffic 

Petrol stations closed as lack of business 

Price fell through the floor


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The first proper lockdown key workers were key workers

The roads were dead on my way to work .. I used to cruise in at 50. About 5 other cars. Bearly used fuel as was never traffic

Petrol stations closed as lack of business

Price fell through the floor
		
Click to expand...

It was not as cut and dried as that. I'm not classed as a key worker yet went to work every day through that time. Roads were quieter, happy days, but firms closed all over for a period until they realised this was going to be a long term thing and they had to come up with alternatives. Being a key worker meant your kids could go to school so key workers could carry on working from home, where possible, yet still send their kids in. Being a key worker was a very loose phrase. It was Spartacus all over again


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was not as cut and dried as that. I'm not classed as a key worker yet went to work every day through that time. Roads were quieter, happy days, but firms closed all over for a period until they realised this was going to be a long term thing and they had to come up with alternatives. Being a key worker meant your kids could go to school so key workers could carry on working from home, where possible, yet still send their kids in. Being a key worker was a very loose phrase. It was Spartacus all over again 

Click to expand...

At first key workers were the essential workers list 

Then loop holes were found to include more and more people


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			At first key workers were the essential workers list

Then loop holes were found to include more and more people
		
Click to expand...

The original list must have lasted a matter of days. To be fair to people, some people, we are now very inter linked so simply saying only NHS staff were key (I'm not saying they did but using it as the obvious example as people are doing for fuel) was never going to be enough. As soon as people started to point out how one job supports another the list inevitably had to expand.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 29, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The original list must have lasted a matter of days. To be fair to people, some people, we are now very inter linked so simply saying only NHS staff were key (I'm not saying they did but using it as the obvious example as people are doing for fuel) was never going to be enough. As soon as people started to point out how one job supports another the list inevitably had to expand.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			The original list must have lasted a matter of days. To be fair to people, some people, we are now very inter linked so simply saying only NHS staff were key (I'm not saying they did but using it as the obvious example as people are doing for fuel) was never going to be enough. As soon as people started to point out how one job supports another the list inevitably had to expand.
		
Click to expand...

My mates firm infuriated me and her..she was refused work from home (when pregnant) even tho she had throughout first lockdown

They claimed they supplied the NHS stuff so key workers ok yes delivery and warehouse .. but her role is admin and finance? She can work from home anytime


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 29, 2021)

RAF have been mobilised


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## adam6177 (Sep 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The petrol stations are to blame as well, they should have a £25 cap per customer to stop hoarding of fuel in cars or cans that simply isn't required. But they don't care, as they get to hike the prices up and make more money.
		
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Personally I'd say £25 MINIMUM spend ... But no Jerry cans unless you have proof of business need.


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## 4LEX (Sep 29, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			But how do you distinguish between those who are hoarding/buying more than they need and those who drive miles and don’t want to have to go through the battle of refilling every £25? 

Must admit it’s a disgrace that the petrol stations are allowed to jack up prices, pure profiteering especially as there isn’t a shortage!
		
Click to expand...

The idea would be it would end the panic buying and stop stations running dry, so those who need to drive further can top up for £25 again. Not perfect I know. 

Hopefully we're at the point now, where the panic buyers have full tanks and won't use the fuel for months, so they won't need to clog up the stations again.


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## CliveW (Sep 29, 2021)

Absolutely no mention of fuel problems on the Scottish lunchtime news.


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## 4LEX (Sep 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			£25 would get me 55 miles in my car.....
		
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Use one of your other cars then.....anyone that has a car with that fuel economy must have a fleet


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## Bdill93 (Sep 29, 2021)

DanFST said:



			£25 would get me 55 miles in my car.....
		
Click to expand...

What on earth do you drive?


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## Robster59 (Sep 29, 2021)

I just took the Father in Law out for a quick lunchtime drive.  I passed two local stations.  One Esso, one BP.  Both were open, with fuel.  No queues.  Price for the petrol was £1.359 at Esso and £1.379 at the BP garage but they're always more expensive than the local supermarkets.  Diesel at both was £1.399.  For a small remuneration, I will pass on the details..........


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## Bdill93 (Sep 29, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			The first proper lockdown key workers were key workers

The roads were dead on my way to work .. I used to cruise in at 50. About 5 other cars. Bearly used fuel as was never traffic

Petrol stations closed as lack of business

Price fell through the floor
		
Click to expand...

Ill never forget driving to work on the day after the lockdown announcement. 

15 miles down the M5, J6-J4, I saw one car my side of the road and only 2 going the other way at 7.30am.

Felt like I was in a zombie movie!!


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 29, 2021)

Just back from towing the caravan up to the site where we are leaving it for all of October. Quite low on diesel on the drive home. Passed a Morrisons and Tesco that both had no fuel but BP did so put £40 in. Mrs Colch asked why I didn't fill it up. I said, "because we don't need to". That will do us for the next couple of weeks, especially as my car is almost full and we only use her car for towing or longer trips. Every day use is my car.


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## IanM (Sep 29, 2021)

My car hasn't been off the drive since Saturday.  It will next be used going to golf again on Saturday... this working from home lark is excellent.


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## DanFST (Sep 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



			Use one of your other cars then.....anyone that has a car with that fuel economy must have a fleet 

Click to expand...

The 15 year old diesel is the daily now! And I'm loving it.


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## Billysboots (Sep 29, 2021)

4LEX said:



			The petrol stations are to blame as well, they should have a £25 cap per customer to stop hoarding of fuel in cars or cans that simply isn't required. But they don't care, as they get to hike the prices up and make more money.
		
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I drove past one independent station yesterday which was charging an eye watering £1.56 for a litre of diesel.


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## theoneandonly (Sep 29, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Evening all

I was due to be going to a golf day tomorrow but am low on fuel and not sure I have enough to get there and back.  Stations near me are cleared out so I may have to take my chances and see if it make it or not.

My wife was on the red line and managed to get some on her way home from work.  A lady in front of her filled up her car and then got multiple cannisters from her boot and filled those up too....

So, question is.... Have you been an panic bought today? If so, did you need it or did you just top up to make sure you had a full tank?
		
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My daughter rang me to tell me the local station was getting very busy so I jumped in my old defender and was able to fill up my 5 x 20L jerry cans and my tank too! I actually drive an E-Tron day to day but took the opportunity to make sure my family were sorted and dont have to mess about hunting for fuel.


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## IainP (Sep 29, 2021)

Well, reluctantly in a queue now. No idea if it will be fruitful, but well below an 1/8th tank so rolling the dice.


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## rulefan (Sep 29, 2021)

Drove past Sainsbury's this am to do some work in my son's garden. No Q so popped in to fill up. Two guys marshalling non existent Qs. 132.9
Passed BP on way back. Two cars waiting for pump to clear. 135.9


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## Old Skier (Sep 29, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 38723

RAF have been mobilised
		
Click to expand...

Its more than a 0900 - 1600 hrs weekday job you know.


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## Imurg (Sep 29, 2021)

Looking at the traffic levels on Maps I don't think any petrol station is open in town at the moment....


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## Old Skier (Sep 29, 2021)

Just back from the club, past 2 petrol stations on the main A39, no Q’s in either, took advantage and filled up ready for next weeks H4H day.

All you guys struggling, pop down to N Devon, plenty here, I’ll might even treat you to a round of golf


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## IainP (Sep 29, 2021)

Had to be expensive "fancy" diesel, couldn't bring myself to put too much in 🤣. The garage hadn't turned on the prices so only way you knew was by the queues. Reaching the forecourt didn't seem to take that long,  but once there it was like following that slow 4-ball. Everything seemed to be on slow motion, walking, looking for keys/wallet/purse, putting seatbelt on etc. 😁


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## Mudball (Sep 29, 2021)

Went to 2x BPs, 2x Sainsbury  and 1 Morrisons… no Diesel anywhere.. slightly better position on petrol… madness… WTF is wrong with people.. are they snorting this stuff? 

Also might help if garages turn off the lights on the price displays (or turn it to zero).. atleast that will stop people queuing and then driving thru the forecourt. 

Cobham services on M25 has fuel for HGVs only.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 29, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Just back from the club, past 2 petrol stations on the main A39, no Q’s in either, took advantage and filled up ready for next weeks H4H day.

All you guys struggling, pop down to N Devon, plenty here, I’ll might even treat you to a round of golf 

Click to expand...

It's so remote there the tanker drivers have to queue up to refill themselves on the way.  😉


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## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

And another fruitless search for diesel....even got in a queue as a tanker had turned up....unleaded..
Nowhere open, no diesel to be found.
Another day off beckons and I might just leave it until the weekend now.
Getting really very pissed off with it all now.


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## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

And it's bloody raining!


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## adam6177 (Sep 30, 2021)

Imurg said:



			And another fruitless search for diesel....even got in a queue as a tanker had turned up....unleaded..
Nowhere open, no diesel to be found.
Another day off beckons and I might just leave it until the weekend now.
Getting really very pissed off with it all now.

Click to expand...

How absolutely nuts, it's not like you can find out somewhere has fuel without wasting your own searching for it....


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## Smiffy (Sep 30, 2021)

Had a customer due to pick their "new" used car up last night. We usually put £20.00 worth in as a gesture, but he asked me to fill it and he would pay the extra.
Queued up at the local petrol station, no longer than 10 minutes. Job done.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

Smiffy said:



			Had a customer due to pick their "new" used car up last night. We usually put £20.00 worth in as a gesture, but he asked me to fill it and he would pay the extra.
Queued up at the local petrol station, no longer than 10 minutes. Job done.
		
Click to expand...


Very sensible move from the customer


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## IainP (Sep 30, 2021)

No way of telling but do wonder how many extra miles the country has clocked up from people driving around looking for fuel


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## Whereditgo (Sep 30, 2021)

Saturday there were a couple of fuel stations that were closed having sold out, since then no queues or fuel shortages locally.

I was in Norfolk on Monday though and most fuel stations were either sold out or only fuelling HGV's.


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## Mudball (Sep 30, 2021)

So how are pumps having unleaded, but running out of diesel so quickly.  Arguably, 'most' diesel vehicles will be high capacity - SUVs, Vans, pickups etc.  So per vehicle needs more than average petrol cars.  However, cant see how not many garages have run out of diesel.  

So is it the van and tractor drivers who are proving to be the idiots draining the tanks?


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 30, 2021)

Someone suggesting freeing prisoners with HGV license to drive fuel tankers.

Did I just dream that.


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## Old Skier (Sep 30, 2021)

IainP said:



			No way of telling but do wonder how many extra miles the country has clocked up from people driving around looking for fuel
		
Click to expand...

Looks like it's more area problems rather than UK wide.


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## HeftyHacker (Sep 30, 2021)

IainP said:



			No way of telling but do wonder how many extra miles the country has clocked up from people driving around looking for fuel
		
Click to expand...

One of my dads pals has a filling station near us and he said its amazing how many people have come in, having already found fuel in nearby Lancaster (10 miles away), and were topping up their tank before getting home. So people were queuing, and in doing so creating a bigger queue, to put in 3 quids worth of fuel 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️.


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## Robster59 (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			So how are pumps having unleaded, but running out of diesel so quickly.  Arguably, 'most' diesel vehicles will be high capacity - SUVs, Vans, pickups etc.  So per vehicle needs more than average petrol cars.  However, cant see how not many garages have run out of diesel. 

So is it the van and tractor drivers who are proving to be the idiots draining the tanks?
		
Click to expand...

Historically, about 40% of the new cars in the UK have been diesel (although this has fallen dramatically).  Till I bought my hybrid, the last petrol fuelled car I owned was about 17 years ago.  Since then, it's been diesel.  
Most petrol cars have been smaller models (up to Fiesta/Escort size) which don't tend to do as high a mileage and have smaller tanks.  Add into that the commercial vehicles, including taxis which are pretty much all diesel, and it isn't that surprising that diesel has run out faster.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 30, 2021)

IainP said:



			No way of telling but do wonder how many extra miles the country has clocked up from people driving around looking for fuel
		
Click to expand...

I am refusing to play that game, I am only interested in the mile radius from my house or it has to be on a journey route … makes it more cost effective 😎 and yes I am tight. 
I think I need to go and get some soon though. We have some travel ahead of us but we are not frequently driving around.


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## road2ruin (Sep 30, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Looks like it's more area problems rather than UK wide.
		
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Yep, I'm in Surrey and it's pretty rubbish here at the moment, long queues and not a lot of petrol. I am down to 30 miles and haven't needed the car this week so didn't get involved in the hunt, I do need to fill up for Monday morning though but trying to leave it at long as possible before trying my luck and hoping things have calmed down.


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## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

I have a full tank - I can go to work....
35 minutes queuing around tesco car park, 5 minutes in the station and I'm done.
I now have this very strange feeling of not wanting to go out and use my fuel now I've got it.....
I think my mind's going.......


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## pauljames87 (Sep 30, 2021)

I bet there are a few now that didn't panic buy who are in a panic to see if they can get any fuel before they run out


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## GreiginFife (Sep 30, 2021)

I put petrol in last Friday (as I normally do on a Friday) the app tells me that it's sat on the drive with 93% and 332 miles range. I haven't been out much this week 

But stories from around my local area is that it's pretty much business as usual with little to no queuing or garages running out.


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I have a full tank - I can go to work....
35 minutes queuing around tesco car park, 5 minutes in the station and I'm done.
I now have this very strange feeling of not wanting to go out and use my fuel now I've got it.....
I think my mind's going.......
		
Click to expand...


hoarder


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## Fade and Die (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I bet there are a few now that didn't panic buy who are in a panic to see if they can get any fuel before they run out
		
Click to expand...

By driving with a feather foot I have eeked out the half tank I had at the beginning of the madness till last night, with 8 miles left in the tank I went out at 10pm, 1st 4 I tried were empty but then I got lucky on the 5th. No vehicles in there and I thought it had no fuel but I could see that some of the pump handles didn’t have bags on them! Swerved in and got £35 worth. By the time I paid and was pulling off the forecourt other cars were queuing up to get in!


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## Orikoru (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I bet there are a few now that didn't panic buy who are in a panic to see if they can get any fuel before they run out
		
Click to expand...

I managed to fill up last Friday/Saturday in the small hours of the morning, I've used nearly half a tank since. I'm now starting to hope this all blows over before I have to drive for a few hours next Thursday/Friday for the forum meet..


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## harpo_72 (Sep 30, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			I bet there are a few now that didn't panic buy who are in a panic to see if they can get any fuel before they run out
		
Click to expand...

Yup and the idiots who bought £20 are coming back to cause more mayhem .. then there are people who haven’t if they had a choice just be a little more careful.
I have been in fuel saving mode, less than 2000 rpm , free wheeling down hills and ignition off at any traffic points and slow acceleration  .. I might carry on doing this as it really gets on people’s nerves.


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## Mudball (Sep 30, 2021)

Starting a new rumour..   I hear cocaine is running out...


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## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			hoarder 

Click to expand...


Hope it's back to some semblance of normality by next weekend, got enough until then.
Perversely, 2 of the lessons I have today have just cancelled so it looks like I'll be home in time to watch the golf all afternoon


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## bluewolf (Sep 30, 2021)

Picked the lad up from work at 11pm last night. Drove past a big BP garage, just off the M6 J27. No one at the pumps, so I popped in and picked up £35 worth of diesel (which was just enough to top the tank). Won't need to visit again for a 3-4 weeks at least, even with a trip up to the Lakes at the weekend.


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## Billysboots (Sep 30, 2021)

Just driven about 40 miles round local stations in my diesel trying to find somewhere with unleaded for my wife’s car, which is on fumes, so I could then ring her and get her straight out to fill up before the pumps ran dry.

Almost everywhere locally still out of fuel. They’re getting deliveries, but running dry in hours. Madness.

Just found some unleaded at a motorway services.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Starting a new rumour..   I hear cocaine is running out...
		
Click to expand...

Not that as well ITV said CO2 shortages were causing a reduction in Stella ☹️


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## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

Clubhouse Golf deleted a Tweet last night..
It said " Golf Club shortage..buy now"
Then they realised that the is a golf club shortage....


----------



## Banchory Buddha (Sep 30, 2021)




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## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

Banchory Buddha said:



View attachment 38737


Click to expand...

Oh dear
How sad
Never mind....


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## Mudball (Sep 30, 2021)

Banchory Buddha said:



View attachment 38737


Click to expand...

I think someone refer him to the thread about how to drive around a roundabout...


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## Crow (Sep 30, 2021)

Just curious; has anyone seen any vehicles stranded that they suspect might have run out of fuel?

Or are most people just driving around on a full tank now and biting their nails when the gauge drops to 3/4 full?


----------



## Bratty (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			I think someone refer him to the thread about how to drive around a roundabout...
		
Click to expand...

He should know... he always gives way to the right! 😉


----------



## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

Crow said:



			Just curious; has anyone seen any vehicles stranded that they suspect might have run out of fuel?

Or are most people just driving around on a full tank now and biting their nails when the gauge drops to 3/4 full?
		
Click to expand...

Seen a couple of cars abandoned - may have broken down but could equally have run out..one was very close to a garage that was open....


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## IainP (Sep 30, 2021)

Crow said:



			Just curious; has anyone seen any vehicles stranded that they suspect might have run out of fuel?

Or are most people just driving around on a full tank now and biting their nails when the gauge drops to 3/4 full?
		
Click to expand...

Think the second paragraph is it.
I would rarely have more than half tank when not planning a long trip, and would top up when down less than say 60 miles left say. Probably a lot of people were similar, and many now have anxiety and have flipped their behaviour.


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## GB72 (Sep 30, 2021)

IainP said:



			Think the second paragraph is it.
I would rarely have more than half tank when not planning a long trip, and would top up when down less than say 60 miles left say. Probably a lot of people were similar, and many now have anxiety and have flipped their behaviour.
		
Click to expand...

I drive 200 miles a week commuting to work. Normally put petrol in once I week but I filled up last Friday and when I get below 200 miles in the tank I will start paying attention with a view to topping up again so as I am good for another 2 weeks and that should see this cleared (hopefully)


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## Robster59 (Sep 30, 2021)

Missus just called me to say that Sainsbury's at Darnley (near Glasgow) has fuel, price unchanged, no queues.  It seems to be settling down now that the idiots have got full tanks.


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## Robster59 (Sep 30, 2021)

I tend to fill up when the tank is a quarter full.  I don't tend to buy in £20 or £30.  If I'm at the pump, I'll fill it.  Less trips to the garage for me.


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## arnieboy (Sep 30, 2021)

Our local Sainsbury's has decided to open the petrol station from 11.00pm to 6.00am to allow access to the supermarket during the day. It seems to have worked well.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			I tend to fill up when the tank is a quarter full.  I don't tend to buy in £20 or £30.  If I'm at the pump, I'll fill it.  Less trips to the garage for me.
		
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This is my routine as well. I couldn't be doing with topping up every few days

The town where I live is still scatty for supplies but where I work has calmed down. I will be okay until this time next week when I am due to go away for the weekend and so need matters to be calm!


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## road2ruin (Sep 30, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			I tend to fill up when the tank is a quarter full.  I don't tend to buy in £20 or £30.  If I'm at the pump, I'll fill it.  Less trips to the garage for me.
		
Click to expand...

Same here, have never really let it go much past a quarter of a tank but will always fill up to the top.


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## Mudball (Sep 30, 2021)

Yesterday. Waze started asking if i know where to find fuel...   should have said 10 Downing street..


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

Wish Id panic bought the heating oil last week lol. 500litres for £210 is now £310


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## chrisd (Sep 30, 2021)

Just been on a panic buying mission.  

Went to the nearest motorway services and took about 15 minutes to wind round the circuit to the pumps, paid through the nose but I was getting quite low. 

Cant write anymore as I'm just off to Tesco as we've only 42 toilet rolls left in store!


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## GB72 (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Wish Id panic bought the heating oil last week lol. 500litres for £210 is now £310 

Click to expand...


To be fair, heating oil always goes up around now as people start checking their heating for winter. Passed 3 tankers in the village alone this morning filling up people's oil supplies. 

I always have the tank filled up in late August, Early September and price tends to be OK and that will get me through most of the winter.


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

GB72 said:



			To be fair, heating oil always goes up around now as people start checking their heating for winter. Passed 3 tankers in the village alone this morning filling up people's oil supplies. 

I always have the tank filled up in late August, Early September and price tends to be OK and that will get me through most of the winter.
		
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first time weve ever bought it, lesson learned (repeating theme lol)


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## Mudball (Sep 30, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Just been on a panic buying mission. 

Went to the nearest motorway services and took about 15 minutes to wind round the circuit to the pumps, paid through the nose but I was getting quite low.

Cant write anymore as I'm just off to Tesco *as we've only 42 toilet rolls left in store!*

Click to expand...

Yesterday the Mrs came back from work and said, that everyone is talking about bog rolls being in short supply soon.. do we have any left.  

Who the flip, is spreading all this news? who is talking this country down?  

At this rate, i wont have anything to buy for Christmas..


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## GB72 (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			first time weve ever bought it, lesson learned (repeating theme lol)
		
Click to expand...

Look for a subscription where you pay monthly and get normally 4 top ups a year and they do it all for you. No need to remember to order but if you see it particularly cheap you can always get the tank filled anyway.


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Yesterday the Mrs came back from work and said, that everyone is talking about bog rolls being in short supply soon.. do we have any left.  

Who the flip, is spreading all this news? who is talking this country down?  

At this rate, i wont have anything to buy for Christmas..
		
Click to expand...


who is posting this on nationwide forums to continue the spread of the news?


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Look for a subscription where you pay monthly and get normally 4 top ups a year and they do it all for you. No need to remember to order but if you see it particularly cheap you can always get the tank filled anyway.
		
Click to expand...


just got to decide whether were sticking with oil first......


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			first time weve ever bought it, lesson learned (repeating theme lol)
		
Click to expand...

1st rule of buying oil, don't trust who you buy from. 2nd rule of buying oil, don't trust who you buy from .

Oil companies work on a margin above cost price and the sales people aim to increase that margin every time they sell to you. The more loyal you are, the bigger price you pay. Awful but true. Ring 3 companies, don't be afraid to play one off against the other, in fact actively do that.

3rd rule of buying oil, do what GB72 said about buying in August. Fill to the brim then


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## BiMGuy (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Yesterday the Mrs came back from work and said, that everyone is talking about bog rolls being in short supply soon.. do we have any left.

*Who the flip, is spreading all this news?* who is talking this country down?

At this rate, i wont have anything to buy for Christmas..
		
Click to expand...

Usually its the village idiots and attention seekers on Facebook.


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## GB72 (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			just got to decide whether were sticking with oil first......
		
Click to expand...


Honestly, I would. I have found it easier to work arround the fluctualtions in price rather than deal with larg scale gas price increases. Only down sides for me are the boiler is more expensive and there are very few boiler maintennace plans like you get with gas.


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Honestly, I would. I have found it easier to work arround the fluctualtions in price rather than deal with larg scale gas price increases. Only down sides for me are the boiler is more expensive and there are very few boiler maintennace plans like you get with gas.
		
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gas isnt an option, no mains gas in the village (amongst other things  )


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## chrisd (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			At this rate, i wont have anything to buy for Christmas..
		
Click to expand...


Pasta ....... just stock up with pasta.  🤫🤫


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			1st rule of buying oil, don't trust who you buy from. 2nd rule of buying oil, don't trust who you buy from .

Oil companies work on a margin above cost price and the sales people aim to increase that margin every time they sell to you. The more loyal you are, the bigger price you pay. Awful but true. Ring 3 companies, don't be afraid to play one off against the other, in fact actively do that.

3rd rule of buying oil, do what GB72 said about buying in August. Fill to the brim then 

Click to expand...


How do you fill to the brim when youre ordering a volume in advance? (asking for a thick friend  )

Ps thanks for confirming the 5 weeks late advice


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## CliveW (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Wish Id panic bought the heating oil last week lol. 500litres for £210 is now £310 

Click to expand...

Just be grateful you aren't using tank gas!


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Pasta ....... just stick up with pasta.  🤫🤫
		
Click to expand...


think you need a gun for a stick up, not sure spaghetti gonna cut it


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## chrisd (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			think you need a gun for a stick up, not sure spaghetti gonna cut it 

Click to expand...

You're quick mate. I changed it a few seconds after posting


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## road2ruin (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			gas isnt an option, no mains gas in the village (amongst other things  )
		
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We have some good friends who moved into a village similar to yours, no mains gas. They'd come from the standard mains gas and didn't even thing about the oil side of things until early January when they ran out. I remember having a drink with him whilst he cried into his pint at the cost of it! Was a lesson learnt from his point of view and they're very careful when they do their winter order!!


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			We have some good friends who moved into a village similar to yours, no mains gas. They'd come from the standard mains gas and didn't even thing about the oil side of things until early January when they ran out. I remember having a drink with him whilst I cried into his pint at the cost of it! Was a lesson learnt from his point of view and they're very careful when they do their winter order!!
		
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Im about 6 weeks away from that pint according to the dipstick (insert joke comparing fundy to said dipstick here)  )


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## GB72 (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			gas isnt an option, no mains gas in the village (amongst other things  )
		
Click to expand...

Only other option is electric heating, not good.


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## GB72 (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			Im about 6 weeks away from that pint according to the dipstick (insert joke comparing fundy to said dipstick here)  )
		
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Also buy one of the devices that you can drop in the boiler and check the level on your phone. Got ours free with a boiler juice order but there are plenty around.


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## Mudball (Sep 30, 2021)

He was a hero last night but looks like he cant go anwhere either 

https://www.wionews.com/sports/uks-...s-bentley-goes-petrol-hunting-see-pics-417147


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Only other option is electric heating, not good.
		
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was looking at heat source pump as a possibility


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## fundy (Sep 30, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Also buy one of the devices that you can drop in the boiler and check the level on your phone. Got ours free with a boiler juice order but there are plenty around.
		
Click to expand...

ok i found boiler juice earlier, will look into that for sure, if only all dipsticks could be so easily replaced


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 30, 2021)

I still can’t understand why everyone is still panic buying 🤦‍♂️


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## Imurg (Sep 30, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I still can’t understand why everyone is still panic buying 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

A. Because they're idiots
B. They've used 1 gallon of their 10 and want to top up " just in case"
C. See A


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## Whereditgo (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			was looking at heat source pump as a possibility
		
Click to expand...

Several pro's and con's with heat pumps, the temperature output is much lower than conventional boilers, so ideal for underfloor heating systems and ok for heating domestic hot water, but if connecting to an existing heating system the existing heat emitters will almost certainly not be big enough. If you go air to water, which is by far the most common and cheapest system, then you need to wary of the manufacturers output claims, efficiency starts to drop off below an outdoor ambient of  +5 C and owing to the humidity on a typical UK winter day they also start to frost up quite quickly, meaning the system goes into a reverse cycle defrost mode, which interrupts the heat supply.


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## nickjdavis (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Yesterday the Mrs came back from work and said, that everyone is talking about bog rolls being in short supply soon.. do we have any left. 

Who the flip, is spreading all this news? who is talking this country down? 

At this rate, i wont have anything to buy for Christmas..
		
Click to expand...

Dont worry...Xmas will be cancelled due to the Turkey shortage...

Farmers warn of Christmas turkey shortage due to lack of staff - BBC News


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 30, 2021)

fundy said:



			How do you fill to the brim when youre ordering a volume in advance? (asking for a thick friend  )

Ps thanks for confirming the 5 weeks late advice 

Click to expand...

Better late than never . Always next year, unless you find an alternative, less stressful method of heating your house.

For point 1, you need to know the size of your tank and how much is in there. There should be something on your tank somewhere that tells you what size it is.

Depending on where your tank is, how high up and how daring you feel, you can go old school and dip a stick in. An old garden cane will do the job. See how much is wet, work out how much space you have in the tank. Equally, get an oil tank gauge, we have a Watchman one at work. This will tell you how much is left. Do your calculation and then order as much as you dare. You will only get charged for the amount you actually take, not how much you order. If you think you can fit 1,000 litres in then order 1,000, don't worry. The driver will keep an eye out and if they think it all won't go in they will stop. As you are in an oil area they will inevitably be delivering heating oil to other houses so they should be able to get rid of the excess without issue, or roll it over for their next fill up. Don't take the mickey and over order by a big margin but don't worry about pushing to the limit.


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## upsidedown (Sep 30, 2021)

Echo what LT says , order to fill your tank. Firm I used to work for all the tankers emptied back into the holding tank at end of the day. 
Lots of companies offer discounts if you join a village scheme so your village gets it all in one delivery


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## GB72 (Sep 30, 2021)

upsidedown said:



			Echo what LT says , order to fill your tank. Firm I used to work for all the tankers emptied back into the holding tank at end of the day.
Lots of companies offer discounts if you join a village scheme so your village gets it all in one delivery
		
Click to expand...

I am on a vialge sccheme, all pay an agreed amount a month and then they come and fill up the tank 4 times a year and just deduct the cost of what they use from the money on account. Works well and you can always order an extra top up if you want.


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## Swinglowandslow (Sep 30, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Someone suggesting freeing prisoners with HGV license to drive fuel tankers.

Did I just dream that.

Click to expand...


Hope you did😳


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 30, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Dont worry...Xmas will be cancelled due to the Turkey shortage...

Farmers warn of Christmas turkey shortage due to lack of staff - BBC News

Click to expand...

That's the best news I've heard in the last two years. Turkey is basically a bigger, blander, dryer version of chicken. It's one of the worst meats you can buy and should be consigned to the bin. The only good thing about turkey is the size of the carcass so you can make stock for soup. Apart from that it's rubbish. Get a decent bit of top rump from the butcher instead and have that.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 30, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			That's the best news I've heard in the last two years. Turkey is basically a bigger, blander, dryer version of chicken. It's one of the worst meats you can buy and should be consigned to the bin. The only good thing about turkey is the size of the carcass so you can make stock for soup. Apart from that it's rubbish. Get a decent bit of top rump from the butcher instead and have that.
		
Click to expand...

Turkey is fantastic. If you know how to cook properly.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 30, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Turkey is fantastic. If you know how to cook properly.
		
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The most important part of cooking a turkey is letting it cool down enough once it's cooked before feeding it to the cats, as that's all it's good for. Then you can enjoy a lovely rare piece of beef.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 30, 2021)

Station was rationing to £30 but on the supreme. Okay high is a hefty £1.50 a litre. But that’s fine we were in need of it and I got the wife’s car up to 290 miles range and mine to 140miles range .. won’t need anything until mid November now.


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## jim8flog (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Starting a new rumour..   I hear cocaine is running out...
		
Click to expand...

 cocaine always means running out!


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## jim8flog (Sep 30, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Yesterday the Mrs came back from work and said, that everyone is talking about bog rolls being in short supply soon.. do we have any left.
		
Click to expand...

That is every body pooping themselves thinking they are going to run out of fuel.


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## jim8flog (Sep 30, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Only other option is electric heating, not good.
		
Click to expand...

 or ground source heat pump or air source heat pump.

I nearly went the former last time I changed the boiler. I did not do so as I was thinking of selling, here I am 16 years later in the same house regretting my decision. (Same applies to not having solar panels fitted).


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## jim8flog (Sep 30, 2021)




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## SocketRocket (Sep 30, 2021)

nickjdavis said:



			Dont worry...Xmas will be cancelled due to the Turkey shortage...

Farmers warn of Christmas turkey shortage due to lack of staff - BBC News

Click to expand...

Good news at last.


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## Robster59 (Sep 30, 2021)

I popped down to my local Sainsbury's this evening. No queuing and still at 132.9ppl for E10 petrol.  There was a tanker doing a refill when I arrived. No E5 petrol available but otherwise no issues. I filled up my tank (about 43 litres). I could be called anywhere in the country at any time so it's best I've got a full tank, and the batteries are fully charged.


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## 4LEX (Sep 30, 2021)

Limit of £30 at my local. Whacked £20 in so both cars are half full and good for the next week or so.


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## Ethan (Oct 1, 2021)

Imurg said:



			A. Because they're idiots
B. They've used 1 gallon of their 10 and want to top up " just in case"
C. See A
		
Click to expand...

I don't think that is fair. If you need a decent amount of fuel for work or whatever, it is sensible to top up when you can. No amount of smug moral superiority thinking you are better than anyone else will make the  car go. It isn't panic buying. I haven't bought any but I wouldn't blame anybody that did. The fact the Govt denies there is a problem whilst at the same time alerting the troops does not help matters.


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## Swinglowandslow (Oct 1, 2021)

Ethan said:



			I don't think that is fair. If you need a decent amount of fuel for work or whatever, it is sensible to top up when you can. No amount of smug moral superiority thinking you are better than anyone else will make the  car go. It isn't panic buying. I haven't bought any but I wouldn't blame anybody that did. The fact the Govt denies there is a problem whilst at the same time alerting the troops does not help matters.
		
Click to expand...

I don't think this is fair either. 
The government  don't deny there's a problem. They say there is a problem because the muppets panic buying .i.e. All at the same time going for petrol that is not needed at that time. If people had purchased petrol as and when they normally did, then the few garages that hadn't been supplied would not have made a huge difference, and supplies would have held up.

But the media broadcast that there was a shortage etc and the stampede started.
That is not the fault of the government . Saying that there is sufficient fuel in the system if buying protocols remained in place is not "denying that there is a problem".
We all know that the system is such that if ,for any reason, everyone, or almost everyone decided to go and buy any product (fuel, bog rolls , whatever) at the same time then it would create a shortage and the sort of scenes we have seen.
Whether the government  is blue or red.


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## Mudball (Oct 1, 2021)

You can’t make this up..


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## Ethan (Oct 1, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I don't think this is fair either.
The government  don't deny there's a problem. They say there is a problem because the muppets panic buying .i.e. All at the same time going for petrol that is not needed at that time. If people had purchased petrol as and when they normally did, then the few garages that hadn't been supplied would not have made a huge difference, and supplies would have held up.

But the media broadcast that there was a shortage etc and the stampede started.
That is not the fault of the government . Saying that there is sufficient fuel in the system if buying protocols remained in place is not "denying that there is a problem".
We all know that the system is such that if ,for any reason, everyone, or almost everyone decided to go and buy any product (fuel, bog rolls , whatever) at the same time then it would create a shortage and the sort of scenes we have seen.
Whether the government  is blue or red.
		
Click to expand...

The Govt created the circumstances in which the shortage of drivers occurred. This is absolutely their fault. Look at the EU and NI, no problems there. 

The idea that everybody should just behave normally and respectfully is laughably naive - have you seen the public lately? Ministers coming on and pontificating about it have not helped, but made things worse, and apologists for them don't hep matters either. The public response is rational and to be expected.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 1, 2021)

Interesting bit on the radio this morning - when a petrol station operator said (and I paraphrase)  ...

Operator: " No, we haven't got any fuel at the moment"
Interviewer: "And that's  because you have delivery problems?"
Operator: "No. We're actually getting more deliveries than normal - it's just that the fuel is selling out so quickly ..."


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## harpo_72 (Oct 1, 2021)

Ethan said:



			The Govt created the circumstances in which the shortage of drivers occurred. This is absolutely their fault. Look at the EU and NI, no problems there.

The idea that everybody should just behave normally and respectfully is laughably naive - have you seen the public lately? Ministers coming on and pontificating about it have not helped, but made things worse, and apologists for them don't hep matters either. The public response is rational and to be expected.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much bang on .. the majority of the public (and they do like us to know it) actually voted for this and believed a man who had a longer track record in lying than Katie Price has for driving offensives 🤣🤣🤣. 
That’s a factual statement not a political one.


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## larmen (Oct 1, 2021)

Does anyone else think that petrol stations are making LESS money than usual?

I believe they hardly make any money on fuel, they are making their profit on Mars bars and other stuff. With them having to close this often, they don't sell much other stuff. People are happy to get fuel and out.

Does that sound right?


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## harpo_72 (Oct 1, 2021)

larmen said:



			Does anyone else think that petrol stations are making LESS money than usual?

I believe they hardly make any money on fuel, they are making their profit on Mars bars and other stuff. With them having to close this often, they don't sell much other stuff. People are happy to get fuel and out.

Does that sound right?
		
Click to expand...

When I was a lad I used to work in a petrol station @chrisd, you may remember it as it was on the Sturry road near the train station. They sell the franchise and the bulk is made from what is sold in the shop the cost of the fuel is monitored within a small radius and you react to the lowest price. So in the end it’s cost fixed, but every litre sold the franchisee gets a small amount ( I can’t remember how much but you needed to sell a lot) .
I remember I was robbed and I asked if they had caught it on CCTV as I had a camera above my head. Franchisee said they did not put any cassettes in the deck it was just a deterrent. So after 6pm I went to the night window and had a sign saying fuel only… she got a cassette in the machine after that.


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## D-S (Oct 1, 2021)

larmen said:



			Does anyone else think that petrol stations are making LESS money than usual?

I believe they hardly make any money on fuel, they are making their profit on Mars bars and other stuff. With them having to close this often, they don't sell much other stuff. People are happy to get fuel and out.

Does that sound right?
		
Click to expand...

If they are actually receiving the same amount of fuel but due to demand it is selling out faster so therefore they are closed for some periods, then it depends on average spend. If the average spend is less due to a £20 or £30 maximum then footfall is actually higher so in this case they are likely to be making more ancillary sales than if the average spend were higher and then fewer people would be coming through the shop.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Oct 1, 2021)

Just been to my local garage to get some bread rolls, it doubles up as my local shop for bits and bobs.
No a single car on the forecourt and petrol and diesel available. They had run out for a couple days apparently but plenty now with another tanker coming tonight.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

It's ironic that Poland has a shortage of HGV drivers as severe as the UK, at least proportionately, even after so many drivers have,  according to some on here, returned home due to Brexit.

And Germany has problems along with other EU States. 

But we hear that people queuing for £10 of fuel that they don't need are behaving rationally and the problem is entirely of the Government's making.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 1, 2021)

Ethan said:



			The Govt created the circumstances in which the shortage of drivers occurred. This is absolutely their fault. Look at the EU and NI, no problems there.

The idea that everybody should just behave normally and respectfully is laughably naive - have you seen the public lately? Ministers coming on and pontificating about it have not helped, but made things worse, and apologists for them don't hep matters either. The public response is rational and to be expected.
		
Click to expand...

There was a delay delivering fuel to a handful of petrol stations in the country, the media kept on broadcasting these shortages which triggered the general public to start panic buying, it was absolutely nothing to do with Government and exactly the same situation we previously experienced with toilet rolls, pasta, tinned food etc.   You are correct that some people have higher priorities with obtaining fuel for their vehicles but that's not what's been happening, every man and his dog have been out panic buying.    Blaming the government is unfair.


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## Mudball (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			It's ironic that Poland has a shortage of HGV drivers as severe as the UK, at least proportionately, even after so many drivers have,  according to some on here, returned home due to Brexit.

*And Germany has problems along with other EU States.*

But we hear that people queuing for £10 of fuel that they don't need are behaving rationally and the problem is entirely of the Government's making.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, shortage of drivers across the continent...  so why are we not seeing a run on petrol station?   Is the EU media or politicians better behaved than ours.  Are their people more rational.    Same problem both sides, but the outcome is the opposite.  

Data point to support your HGV shortage in the continent >> https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-looming-truck-driver-shortage-trucker-haulier-brexit-hgv/  >> though not entirely sure of the tagline ' _The UK offers an ‘apocalyptic scenario’ if the Continent doesn’t do better in recruiting drivers.'_


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			There was a delay delivering fuel to a handful of petrol stations in the country, the media kept on broadcasting these shortages which triggered the general public to start panic buying, it was absolutely nothing to do with Government and exactly the same situation we previously experienced with toilet rolls, pasta, tinned food etc.   You are correct that some people have higher priorities with obtaining fuel for their vehicles but that's not what's been happening, every man and his dog have been out panic buying.  *  Blaming the government is unfair.*

Click to expand...

Likewise claiming that it has nothing at all to do with government statements or Brexit is disingenuous.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 1, 2021)

Last time I filled up the van was last Thursday night. I didn’t work Friday, but have all this week. Normally a tank lasts 4 days till it’s refilled, but currently have a third of a tank and will need to find some today or tomorrow, otherwise those people with problems with their ovens/fridges/washing machines and all over white goods will be cancelled off until I can get a tank full....which was £90 before the latest piece increases.


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## Mudball (Oct 1, 2021)




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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Likewise claiming that it has nothing at all to do with government statements or Brexit is disingenuous.
		
Click to expand...

I am interested to know which Government statement, and when it was made, that you think induced the Great British public to panic buy fuel that many of them had no need of.


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## spongebob59 (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I am interested to know which Government statement, and when it was made  that you think induced the Great British public to panic buy fuel that many of them had no need of.
		
Click to expand...

I think it was Grant Schapps, but I believe the newspapers were first on board with the stories.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

spongebob59 said:



			I think it was Grant Schapps, but I believe the newspapers were first on board with the stories.
		
Click to expand...

I have looked and, as yet, cannot find any statement that should have led to the public's actions. 

Some of the media coverage might be viewed differently.


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## harpo_72 (Oct 1, 2021)

The government and the media have totally misjudged the public and not realised that the majority are not so bright and liable to panic ….


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## rulefan (Oct 1, 2021)

larmen said:



			Does anyone else think that petrol stations are making LESS money than usual?
		
Click to expand...

Harrogate Sainsbury's 132.9 - only 2/3 cars in marshalled Q.
400 yards away Esso 142.9 - couldn't get near.


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## drdel (Oct 1, 2021)

Ethan said:



			The Govt created the circumstances in which the shortage of drivers occurred. This is absolutely their fault. Look at the EU and NI, no problems there.

The idea that everybody should just behave normally and respectfully is laughably naive - have you seen the public lately? Ministers coming on and pontificating about it have not helped, but made things worse, and apologists for them don't hep matters either. The public response is rational and to be expected.
		
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I'm afraid you're letting your politics come into it. 

This is an area in which I have some expertise going back over a few decades in suppply chain (SC) management. Previous Governments of different'clours' have ignored LGV driver capacity for years since the 80's when the existence of the Road Transport Trainging Boards were aboloished in favour of relying on private compannies. Many of the larger companies with their own fleets progressively stopped inhouse training in favour of poaching trained staff from the smaller independent hauliers. The Military also trained large numbers of LGV drivers which went on into the private sector. Add too that the fact that those 'trained' in that period have now retired or reached retiring age and less drivers arre coming through the system which leads to the SC vulnerablity. In addition the companies now use Lean Supply strategies whic has reduced the inventory that used to exist in each company to improve the apperance of the bottom line for the RoI and share value. Furthermore manufacturing has become a world-wide scenario with more eintegrated leg (note the impact of one container ship in the Suez canal last year.

These issues exist in most dveloped and industrialised nations and have for years , I chaired an international forum of OECD back in the 90's with USA, Canada, France and others advising and pointing to the vulnerabilities and driver training capacitiy.

Throwing around derrogatory words and insulats  like "apologists" at those whoo have a different view is arrogant when you demonstrate from your comments that your subject knowledge is somewhat scant.


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## bluewolf (Oct 1, 2021)

drdel said:



			I'm afraid you're letting your politics come into it.

This is an area in which I have some expertise going back over a few decades in suppply chain (SC) management. Previous Governments of different'clours' have ignored LGV driver capacity for years since the 80's when the existence of the Road Transport Trainging Boards were aboloished in favour of relying on private compannies. Many of the larger companies with their own fleets progressively stopped inhouse training in favour of poaching trained staff from the smaller independent hauliers. The Military also trained large numbers of LGV drivers which went on into the private sector. Add too that the fact that those 'trained' in that period have now retired or reached retiring age and less drivers arre coming through the system which leads to the SC vulnerablity. In addition the companies now use Lean Supply strategies whic has reduced the inventory that used to exist in each company to improve the apperance of the bottom line for the RoI and share value. Furthermore manufacturing has become a world-wide scenario with more eintegrated leg (note the impact of one container ship in the Suez canal last year.

These issues exist in most dveloped and industrialised nations and have for years , I chaired an international forum of OECD back in the 90's with USA, Canada, France and others advising and pointing to the vulnerabilities and driver training capacitiy.

Throwing around derrogatory words and insulats  like "apologists" at those whoo have a different view is arrogant when you demonstrate from your comments that your subject knowledge is somewhat scant.
		
Click to expand...

Great post. Very informative. (Genuinely, just in case anyone decided that I’m being facetious)

Understanding the above, why do you think that the mainland UK is only really starting to feel the effects of this decades old issue now?


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## drdel (Oct 1, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Great post. Very informative. (Genuinely, just in case anyone decided that I’m being facetious)

Understanding the above, why do you think that the mainland UK is only really starting to feel the effects of this decades old issue now?
		
Click to expand...

Brief answer...

Continental jounrnies are often shorter and overnight facilities much better on the occasions where a layover is needed. Industrial zones more concentrated etc

There's more to it than that but I've a feeling most readers will gave dozed off!


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## rulefan (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I am interested to know which Government statement, and when it was made, that you think induced the Great British public to panic buy fuel that many of them had no need of.
		
Click to expand...

It was a leaked statement by the Road Haulage Association


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

Shortfall of drivers in Germany 60,000
In France 45,000
Italy 15-20,000

Are these difficulties due to Britain leaving the EU?


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## bluewolf (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Shortfall of drivers in Germany 60,000
In France 45,000
Italy 15-20,000

Are these difficulties due to Britain leaving the EU?
		
Click to expand...

Are they having the same issues the mainland UK is having?


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## bluewolf (Oct 1, 2021)

drdel said:



			Brief answer...

Continental jounrnies are often shorter and overnight facilities much better on the occasions where a layover is needed. Industrial zones more concentrated etc

There's more to it than that but I've a feeling most readers will gave dozed off!
		
Click to expand...

I understand what you’re saying, but wasn’t that the case last year, and the 30 before that?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Are they having the same issues the mainland UK is having?
		
Click to expand...

I understand that they are experiencing some problems but I admit I do not know to what extent. 

My point was more to do with our problems being far more to do with longstanding issues for HGV drivers and the transport industry in general. Many of those issues pre-date Brexit by years.

But it seems for some the current problem is just another opportunity to fight a battle that has long since been lost.


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## bluewolf (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I understand that they are experiencing some problems but I admit I do not know to what extent.

My point was more to do with our problems being far more to do with longstanding issues for HGV drivers and the transport industry in general. Many of those issues pre-date Brexit by years.

But it seems for some the current problem is just another opportunity to fight a battle that has long since been lost.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that there were longstanding issues all across Europe, but B (and the language/behaviour of some who should know better) has certainly made things worse. My minor irritation (for another thread) is those who ignore this and say that B has not been a major contributing factor 👍


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## SocketRocket (Oct 1, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Likewise claiming that it has nothing at all to do with government statements or Brexit is disingenuous.
		
Click to expand...

The handful of stations with delivery shortages was a recruitment, training and poor working condition issue. Thats a problem caused by employers who have relied for too long on an inexhaustible supply of cheap labour.  It's not governments job to set pay and conditions for employers (other than minimum wage rates) and it's disingenuous to think otherwise.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			I agree that there were longstanding issues all across Europe, but B (and the language/behaviour of some who should know better) has certainly made things worse. My minor irritation (for another thread) is those who ignore this and say that B has not been a major contributing factor 👍
		
Click to expand...

I must admit to  being one of those who does not see B as being a MAJOR factor. 

Yes some drivers returned home due to uncertainty and some also returned who had always intended to.

Some also found themselves affected by COVID.

However,  the numbers represent very much a minority of our general shortage of HGV drivers and even smaller proportion of the shortage of qualified tanker drivers. 

Blaming the B word may result in attention being drawn away from the far greater problem surrounding terms and conditions which have made the job  such an unattractive proposition.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 1, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			I agree that there were longstanding issues all across Europe, but B (and the language/behaviour of some who should know better) has certainly made things worse. My minor irritation (for another thread) is those who ignore this and say that B has not been a major contributing factor 👍
		
Click to expand...

It hasn't been.  It's a contributing factor as I've stated previously due to the industry  being reliant on labour from poorer countries, the major factor has been a lack of investment in training, pay and working conditions, just like a number of other employment sectors.


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## drdel (Oct 1, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			I understand what you’re saying, but wasn’t that the case last year, and the 30 before that?
		
Click to expand...

Yup the vulnerability has been there: eg. French port chaos for years, ferries and bad weather etc have bigger impacts as the supply chains have become leaner with very little contingency (stock).

Of coursee the pandemic hit logistics internationally and then the surge as some sort of normaility returns. The changes in port procedures from Brexit added t the complexity but it aint the biggest impact.  Its a question of lots of relatively small impactshappening simultaneously.

The easy things is to blame 'the 'Government' but this is a multi-faceted issue across the developed countries with stuff llike China's exchange rate rigging making its exports unrealsitically cheaper so distorting the sourcing and supplyy chain nodes.


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## drdel (Oct 1, 2021)

Ethan said:



			I think YOU are letting your politics come into it. The factors you cite are all factors which were exacerbated by the lunacy of You Know What. The rest of the EU and NI do not have this problem. It beggars belief that it is a UK only problem unconnected with Brexit. The fixes proposed by Govt Ministers reveal the truth.
		
Click to expand...

My statements are personal opinions based upon some economics, business and subject knowledge. You could try ' avoiding the arrogant put downs by being less strident and concentrate on having an unemotional and sensible debate.  The EU and Ireland have the same vulnerabilities but the nature of their business volume, industry demographics and population density come into play.


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## Swinglowandslow (Oct 1, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Likewise claiming that it has nothing at all to do with government statements or Brexit is disingenuous.
		
Click to expand...

No, it is not. What government statement precipitated this fuel problem?
It is clear to anyone without a gun pointing at Westminster that the crisis was caused by panic buying which was encouraged by media coverage.


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## bluewolf (Oct 1, 2021)

drdel said:



			Yup the vulnerability has been there: eg. French port chaos for years, ferries and bad weather etc have bigger impacts as the supply chains have become leaner with very little contingency (stock).

Of coursee the pandemic hit logistics internationally and then the surge as some sort of normaility returns. The changes in port procedures from Brexit added t the complexity but it aint the biggest impact.  Its a question of lots of relatively small impactshappening simultaneously.

The easy things is to blame 'the 'Government' but this is a multi-faceted issue across the developed countries with stuff llike China's exchange rate rigging making its exports unrealsitically cheaper so distorting the sourcing and supplyy chain nodes.
		
Click to expand...

Having been a recent victim of excessive logistics delays due to the Suez issue and weather delays, I do fully agree that these have been major driving factors in localised delays. However, to dismiss the almost instant and significant impact of brexit on the supply chains of mainland UK appears politically motivated. 
I’m sure we’d find a large amount of common ground on the logistics issue, but we’ll most likely never agree on the impact that brexit had, is having, and will have when the WA is actually implemented in full 👍

Anyway, this discussion has strayed into political territory and will most likely result in the end of the world as we know it. I’m therefore going to recuse myself and head out for a nice weekend in the Lakes, with some hearty food, great ales and maybe even a walk or two if the rain ever stops 😂


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## Old Skier (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			It's ironic that Poland has a shortage of HGV drivers as severe as the UK, at least proportionately, even after so many drivers have,  according to some on here, returned home due to Brexit.

And Germany has problems along with other EU States.

But we hear that people queuing for £10 of fuel that they don't need are behaving rationally and the problem is entirely of the Government's making.
		
Click to expand...

No no, you know it’s not a problem in the EU, a poster said it’s so. You shouldn’t believe in information coming from Europe.


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## Old Skier (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Shortfall of drivers in Germany 60,000
In France 45,000
Italy 15-20,000

Are these difficulties due to Britain leaving the EU?
		
Click to expand...

Let’s not let the facts get in the way now.

Funny how we were accepting the “expert” information provided in the Covid thread but when someone has the cheek to post an informative post on this subject on the facts behind the shortage of drivers world wide it is dismissed out of hand by someone with no knowledge on the subject.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

bluewolf said:



			Having been a recent victim of excessive logistics delays due to the Suez issue and weather delays, I do fully agree that these have been major driving factors in localised delays. However, to dismiss the almost instant and significant impact of brexit on the supply chains of mainland UK appears politically motivated.
I’m sure we’d find a large amount of common ground on the logistics issue, but we’ll most likely never agree on the impact that brexit had, is having, and will have when the WA is actually implemented in full 👍

Anyway, this discussion has strayed into political territory and will most likely result in the end of the world as we know it. I’m therefore going to recuse myself and head out for a nice weekend in the Lakes, with some hearty food, great ales and maybe even a walk or two if the rain ever stops 😂
		
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you say regarding the difficulties created by Brexit for imported and  exported goods and raw materials.

However, the current problems with fuel distribution are almost exclusively of UK origin. 

After all it is generally accepted that there is no shortage of fuel in the country. The problem lies with getting it to the filling stations. 

A small part of that may be due to some delivery drivers being affected by Brexit but far more it is down to poor management of the distribution process. 

Anyway I  agree that further debate could take this in the "wrong " direction. More importantly I hope you succeed in finding some good ales , fine food and have a great weekend in the Lakes. 🤞the weather is kind to you.


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## Mudball (Oct 1, 2021)

The Govt is trying.. it has sent a million letters out.. unfortunately some went to the wrong type of recipients (I am sure it is only a small minority) 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443890011116613635


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 1, 2021)

Guys we must keep politics and things political out of this thread

Pretty Please


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## chrisd (Oct 1, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Guys we must keep politics and things political out of this thread

Pretty Please
		
Click to expand...


Aren't golf tees interesting!


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## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2021)

My drive home takes 45 on a good day hour on a bad day 

However since this fuel crazyness today was 1 hour 20 mins and been hour and 10 most days 

Just to get round the queues


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## SocketRocket (Oct 1, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Aren't golf tees interesting!
		
Click to expand...

Pointy cuppy ones or grassy standy ones.  Or both 🤔


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## chrisd (Oct 1, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Pointy cuppy ones or grassy standy ones.  Or both 🤔
		
Click to expand...

Orange plastic ones - so decadent!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			My drive home takes 45 on a good day hour on a bad day

However since this fuel crazyness today was 1 hour 20 mins and been hour and 10 most days

Just to get round the queues
		
Click to expand...

Beyond last weekend we haven't seen much queuing.

Local supermarkets (Sainsburys, Morrisons and Tesco) looked a little busier than usual but no great long lines.

Those three cover South Leicester, Hinckley and Ashby de la Zouch.

No idea how this compares with other people's real experiences but certainly seems completely different to the situation in London and the South East (at least as reported by the media🙄).


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 1, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Orange plastic ones - so decadent!
		
Click to expand...

 I'm a bamboo man myself!

Doing my bit for the environment 😇


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## pauljames87 (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Beyond last weekend we haven't seen much queuing.

Local supermarkets (Sainsburys, Morrisons and Tesco) looked a little busier than usual but no great long lines.

Those three cover South Leicester, Hinckley and Ashby de la Zouch.

No idea how this compares with other people's real experiences but certainly seems completely different to the situation in London and the South East (at least as reported by the media🙄).
		
Click to expand...

The queues themselves aren't say massively long but if it's more than 3 cars out of the forecourt on the stations I'm passing it's queuing on the a406 just as it goes from 3 to 2 lanes anyways so that's down to 1 lane and then the a13 when you just join on a slip road so it's chaos...

Not the best stations to have queues in


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## spongebob59 (Oct 1, 2021)

Was speaking to an employee at the Local supermarket petrol station. Police are having to repeatedly shut it down due to motorist blocking access roads which stop bus services running.

It's a shame the same force don't act as efficiently with the great unwashed on the M25 junctions.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 1, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Orange plastic ones - so decadent!
		
Click to expand...

I'm into pink, so sensual 👄


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## Imurg (Oct 1, 2021)

Doesn't look like any places are open in town tonight...both Tesco stations are closed and all the others seem deserted.
Fortunately I have enough to get me to next weekend and I hope it's back to normal by then..


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2021)

Plenty of fuel in Perth and no queues.  I have full tank, about 450miles, with a 480mile drive to do tomorrow.  What to do?  I could top up in Dunblane and that would probably get me home, or I could wait a couple of hundred miles until I need to fill up.

However I have concerns about north and Midlands of England situation.  Reports abound about shortages…Plus anecdotally my lad in Sheffield hasn’t been able to find fuel yesterday or today - he’s done what was asked and not topped up as he has travelled about this week working, but he is now on red and can’t find any fuel - and he has work all this weekend.  But no fuel; no work; no money.  So he is walking the petrol stations with a petrol container tomorrow…hoping - as we are all hoping this all gets sorted and back to normal very soon.

I think I’ll top up in Dunblane and keep my fingers crossed for my lad.  Different circumstances - same problem.


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## D-S (Oct 1, 2021)

Seems to be easing round this way now.


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## CliveW (Oct 1, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Plenty of fuel in Perth and no queues.
		
Click to expand...

I actually drove round Perth today looking for petrol queues and closed forecourts, but couldn't find any. Perhaps I'll need to travel further afield tomorrow.  🤣


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## spongebob59 (Oct 1, 2021)

Wonder if the prices will go back down once supplies are sorted 😂


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 1, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Plenty of fuel in Perth and no queues.  I have about 450miles in the tank and a 480mile drive to do tomorrow.  What to do?  I could top up in Dunblane and that would probably get me home, or I could wait a couple of hundred miles until I need to fill up.

However I have concerns about north and Midlands of England situation.  Reports abound about shortages…Plus anecdotally my lad in Sheffield hasn’t been able to find fuel yesterday or today - he’s done what was asked and not topped up as he has travelled about this week working, but he is now on red and can’t find any fuel - and he has work all this weekend.  But no fuel; no work; no money.  So he is walking the petrol stations with a petrol container tomorrow…hoping - as we are all hoping this all gets sorted and back to normal very soon.

I think I’ll top up in Dunblane and keep my fingers crossed for my lad.  Different circumstances - same problem.
		
Click to expand...

Why don’t you top up in Dunblane and get a container full for your boy and drop it off as you go past on your way south

#logistics


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## Dando (Oct 1, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I'm a bamboo man myself!

Doing my bit for the environment 😇
		
Click to expand...

Think of those starving pandas


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 1, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Orange plastic ones - so decadent!
		
Click to expand...

You're an imbecile (no offense meant). Everyone knows that red wooden tees make the ball go further. You moron. 😀


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## Mudball (Oct 1, 2021)

Next shortage coming up.. Raid your local shop for pigs in blankets 
	



I am happy to run online classes to support anyone struggling with the complex ingredients in pigs in blankets .. for a donation for H4H


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## Imurg (Oct 1, 2021)

Quick
Help

Where can I panic buy a butcher?


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## SteveW86 (Oct 1, 2021)

Filled up after collecting the shopping at Tesco tonight, drove straight upto the pump as there was no queue.

Not all pumps were open, but the ones that were had all fuel options available.


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## chrisd (Oct 1, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			You're an imbecile (no offense meant). Everyone knows that red wooden tees make the ball go further. You moron. 😀
		
Click to expand...

Red !!!!!!

You a communist? 

See, even tee's can get political 🤐🤐


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Next shortage coming up.. Raid your local shop for pigs in blankets 
	View attachment 38754



I am happy to run online classes to support anyone struggling with the complex ingredients in pigs in blankets .. for a donation for H4H
		
Click to expand...


Can you be anymore of the problem??????????????????????


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Why don’t you top up in Dunblane and get a container full for your boy and drop it off as you go past on your way south

#logistics
		
Click to expand...

You know what…that is not a bad idea…in fact it’s a rather good one. 👍


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## Mudball (Oct 1, 2021)

fundy said:



			Can you be anymore of the problem??????????????????????
		
Click to expand...

I can try…  

In fact I was trying to be helpful and offer lessons on how to make pigs in blankets. Special discount available for any snowflakes who struggle to combine the two key ingredients and find the right temperature. 

(With my masterchef hat..) .. it is my grandma’s recipe and reminds me of home..


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## fundy (Oct 1, 2021)

Mudball said:



			I can try…  

In fact I was trying to be helpful and offer lessons on how to make pigs in blankets. Special discount available for any snowflakes who struggle to combine the two key ingredients and find the right temperature. 

(With my masterchef hat..) .. it is my grandma’s recipe and reminds me of home..
		
Click to expand...


sorry but thats utter bollox and you know it, you constantly post about idiots whilst being one of the idiots, try practising what you preach rather than thinking its ok to be aloof to it! Like SILH you seem to think the no politics rule doesnt apply to you whilst constantly sniping away under the guise of humour


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## chellie (Oct 1, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Plenty of fuel in Perth and no queues.  I have full tank, about 450miles, with a 480mile drive to do tomorrow.  What to do?  I could top up in Dunblane and that would probably get me home, or I could wait a couple of hundred miles until I need to fill up.

However I have concerns about north and Midlands of England situation.  Reports abound about shortages…Plus anecdotally my lad in Sheffield hasn’t been able to find fuel yesterday or today - he’s done what was asked and not topped up as he has travelled about this week working, but he is now on red and can’t find any fuel - and he has work all this weekend.  But no fuel; no work; no money.  So he is walking the petrol stations with a petrol container tomorrow…hoping - as we are all hoping this all gets sorted and back to normal very soon.

I think I’ll top up in Dunblane and keep my fingers crossed for my lad.  Different circumstances - same problem.
		
Click to expand...

What was asked was not to put in £5 worth. Not drive around all week and run your tank empty Oh, and some petrol stations are not allowing jerry cans to be filled up.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Red !!!!!!

You a communist?

See, even tee's can get political 🤐🤐
		
Click to expand...

Likewise I suppose if I insist on doing a card by hand and not by app then I could be a Markshis (geddit…sorry🙄)


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## IainP (Oct 1, 2021)

Unbelievable Jeff..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-58767230


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2021)

chellie said:



			What was asked was not to put in £5 worth. Not drive around all week and run your tank empty Oh, and some petrol stations are not allowing jerry cans to be filled up.
		
Click to expand...

I think it was more to do with only filling up when you need to and to not continually top up.  Well that’s what I was hearing and I did get some criticism last week when I did a £21 top up.  But hey.  There we are.


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## chrisd (Oct 1, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Likewise I suppose if I insist on doing a card by hand and not by app then I could be a Markshis (geddit…sorry🙄)
		
Click to expand...

I've heard worse

Well I haven't really but wanted to make you feel good 🤯


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## IanM (Oct 1, 2021)

Passed 2 Stations on way to golf club today.  Both open as looked normal...although one has hiked up the prices


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## larmen (Oct 1, 2021)

IainP said:



			Unbelievable Jeff..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-58767230

Click to expand...

Did he display a flammable sign for his mortar? Otherwise it should have been obvious. ;-(


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 1, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Why don’t you top up in Dunblane and get a container full for your boy and drop it off as you go past on your way south

#logistics
		
Click to expand...

Far too practical. More relevant, why not just fill up rather than opening up a further ‘ can of worms’ from people on here offering advice!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Far too practical. More relevant, why not just fill up rather than opening up a further ‘ can of worms’ from people on here offering advice!
		
Click to expand...

I am currently full, but may well top up whilst still north of Glasgow, and might well also fill up a petrol container (assuming I can find one to buy) for my lad…just in case he can’t find any fuel himself tomorrow.


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## Mudball (Oct 1, 2021)

Tomorrow got a 150 mile round trip for the niece’s birthday .. going to be easy on that accelerator. Also hoping that the insulate idiots to show up on the M25 again ..


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## Old Skier (Oct 2, 2021)

Full tank, off to Aldershot today. The only fuel I’ll need is a pint in the Traf in memory of 2019 and #Fish


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 2, 2021)

@Old Skier has been busy 😎😬


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## SatchFan (Oct 2, 2021)

Holidays are coming.


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## Imurg (Oct 2, 2021)

I normally do the weekly shop early Saturday morning at the nearest Tesco...
Had to go to the one on the other sidemof town as the queue for the filling station was blocking the entrance, roundabout and road...at 6.15 this morning.
There's no end in sight around here....


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## jim8flog (Oct 2, 2021)

chrisd said:



			Aren't golf tees interesting!
		
Click to expand...

 Not so much when your delivery of a new lot has been held up by the delivery company due to a lack of drivers.


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## jim8flog (Oct 2, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



View attachment 38756

@Old Skier has been busy 😎😬
		
Click to expand...

 That is not a tank. (at least it was not classed as such when I worked for the MOD)


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## Old Skier (Oct 2, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			That is not a tank. (at least it was not classed as such when I worked for the MOD)

Click to expand...

It's a toy, that's why we allow the RAF Regt to play on them.


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## Dando (Oct 2, 2021)

At the caravan for the weekend and drove last about 8 or petrol stations - everyone out of fuel, even those on the motorways services


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## SocketRocket (Oct 2, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			It's a toy, that's why we allow the RAF Regt to play on them.
		
Click to expand...

Its his 'Little Tank'


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## SocketRocket (Oct 2, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Full tank, off to Aldershot today. The only fuel I’ll need is a pint in the Traf in memory of 2019 and #Fish
		
Click to expand...

#Fish ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 2, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			I am interested to know which Government statement, and when it was made, that you think induced the Great British public to panic buy fuel that many of them had no need of.
		
Click to expand...

I think it was the one that said 'don't panic don't panic'.


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## upsidedown (Oct 2, 2021)

Dando said:



			At the caravan for the weekend and drove last about 8 or petrol stations - everyone out of fuel, even those on the motorways services
		
Click to expand...

Full tank and just waiting to see if the rain will ease before we drag the wobble box down to Cornwall ☔😉😁


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2021)

Still full tank in the juggernaut.. and driving a total of 3.2. Mile round trip today to my mum's and back for the day.

Glad that A I got lucky and filled up the week before this stupidness and B we don't have to use the big car often now the wife's back at work.


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## SatchFan (Oct 2, 2021)

Got to my local Sainsbury's this morning at 06:50 and there were about six cars queueing for fuel. By the time I'd finished shopping at 07:30 there were over 30. Interesting to listen to the shopping queue conversation. The generic mentality seemed to be one of keep topping up just to be on the safe side. Sad.


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## Dando (Oct 2, 2021)




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## jim8flog (Oct 2, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			It's a toy, that's why we allow the RAF Regt to play on them.
		
Click to expand...

 One of my memories of my time working at the FVRDE/MVEE was when they were developing the Scorpion a couple of guys took an unequipped early version out for a spin and were rumoured to have got more than 60MPH out of it.


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## drdel (Oct 2, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			One of my memories of my time working at the FVRDE/MVEE was when they were developing the Scorpion a couple of guys took an unequipped early version out for a spin and were rumoured to have got more than 60MPH out of it.
		
Click to expand...

Snap. Remember testing it in the Pond at Horsea. Theoretically it could do 55mph forwards or backwards - I wasn't aware the French were involved with the spec.


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## drdel (Oct 2, 2021)

I see although the UK's stock of fuel is at normal levels the Petrol Retailers Association are reckoning on a 3p/litre price rise in the coming days . They vehemently deny this is profitering !!


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## chellie (Oct 2, 2021)

Locals stations out of petrol again......


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## Carlwm (Oct 2, 2021)

Popped into the centre of Leeds to meet friends for breakfast, and called in for petrol on the way home. No queues, either at the station I used or the other two I passed on my travels. Prices were normal too.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 2, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			One of my memories of my time working at the FVRDE/MVEE was when they were developing the Scorpion a couple of guys took an unequipped early version out for a spin and were rumoured to have got more than 60MPH out of it.
		
Click to expand...

Worked on the 'Striker' version that had five swingfire anti tank missiles.  Liked giving them some Welly on the airfield at BAE.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2021)

drdel said:



			I see although the UK's stock of fuel is at normal levels the Petrol Retailers Association are reckoning on a 3p/litre price rise in the coming days . They vehemently deny this is profitering !!
		
Click to expand...

A 3p rise does what tho? 2.4p remains with them .. on which are they paying more for deliveries as the wages of drivers only going one way 

Plus their making less as the majority of their profits are from the shop arent they? In which sales are right down as people can't just nip in for a quick stop 

Supply and demand surely?


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## bobmac (Oct 2, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			It's a toy, that's why we allow the RAF Regt to play on them.
		
Click to expand...

It was the only armoured vehicle that 4 star hotels will let you park in their car park when you stay for the week


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## jim8flog (Oct 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			A 3p rise does what tho? 2.4p remains with them .. on which are they paying more for deliveries as the wages of drivers only going one way

Plus their making less as the majority of their profits are from the shop arent they? In which sales are right down as people can't just nip in for a quick stop

Supply and demand surely?
		
Click to expand...

 I would agree with the losses (lack of profits from the shops). I often fill up in a Coop garage/shop near the club. The car park is nearly always close to full last Monday drove straight in to a nearly empty car park. 

Funny bit was somebody a little way behind me having seen me pull in also turned in, expecting there to be fuel, and drove straight out again.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			I would agree with the losses (lack of profits from the shops). I often fill up in a Coop garage/shop near the club. The car park is nearly always close to full last Monday drove straight in to a nearly empty car park.

Funny bit was somebody a little way behind me having seen me pull in also turned in, expecting there to be fuel, and drove straight out again.
		
Click to expand...

Also add in there electric cars not going in petrol stations for charge .. those charge points make a fair bit and we all avoiding the queues not going into service stations


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## CliveW (Oct 2, 2021)

Interesting...
https://news.sky.com/story/fuel-cri...r-one-said-it-was-back-under-control-12422907


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## larmen (Oct 2, 2021)

CliveW said:



			Interesting...
https://news.sky.com/story/fuel-cri...r-one-said-it-was-back-under-control-12422907

Click to expand...

That’s the map Jo Swinson dreamed off ;-)


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## RichA (Oct 2, 2021)

I live smack in the middle of the red bit of that map.
I did our weekly Tesco shop this afternoon and filled up with unleaded on the way out. Forecourt full, but no queue. Took 5 minutes with pay at pump.


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## GB72 (Oct 2, 2021)

Ok in Melton yesterday. Tesco have put aside part of the car park to keep queues out the way. All pumps open and queued for maybe 10 minutes. Tank full again


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## Ethan (Oct 2, 2021)

drdel said:



			Brief answer...

Continental jounrnies are often shorter and overnight facilities much better on the occasions where a layover is needed. Industrial zones more concentrated etc

There's more to it than that but I've a feeling most readers will gave dozed off!
		
Click to expand...

I don't know if you think the Road Hauliers Association membership approaches your level of expertise, although some of them may have been involved more recently than the 90s ......


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## larmen (Oct 2, 2021)

Apparently I am expecting a letter to get me ‘back to driving’.

I have seen more articles of Germans being asked to drive than actual examples of other Germans receiving that letter.


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## drdel (Oct 2, 2021)

Ethan said:



			I don't know if you think the Road Hauliers Association membership approaches your level of expertise, although some of them may have been involved more recently than the 90s ......

View attachment 38769

Click to expand...

Since they asked for advice I'll leave you to judge and make  your mind up -which I suspect you have already done. I'll not waste others' time by further cross-chat.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 2, 2021)

Ethan said:



			I don't know if you think the Road Hauliers Association membership approaches your level of expertise, although some of them may have been involved more recently than the 90s ......

View attachment 38769

Click to expand...

Somehow I don't think many Hauliers are going to say the problem is due to their own actions.  They've relied on cheap labour and suppressed conditions for their employees.  They've had years to address training, recruitment and wage rates and have ignored the poor working conditions Drivers have to endure.


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## IainP (Oct 2, 2021)

Fairly rural where I live, suspect the local town is one of those red spots on the graph. Was off to golf course this morning,  which is also rural and I pass 2 fuel stations so thought I'd look. First was totally empty, good clear signs out. Second one had petrol and diesel, limited to £30. So took advantage, over half a tank so good for a while.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 2, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Somehow I don't think many Hauliers are going to say the problem is due to their own actions.  They've relied on cheap labour and suppressed conditions for their employees.  They've had years to address training, recruitment and wage rates and have ignored the poor working conditions Drivers have to endure.
		
Click to expand...

Surely that survey has questioned the wrong people. 

It is the drivers who have left whose opinions should have been sought.

Not many RHA members will confess that rates of pay and conditions have been responsible for them not being able to recruit.


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## Mudball (Oct 2, 2021)

Driving on the M25 towards Kent. There were signs that the Services between J5-J6 had diesel. So went in only to see two attendants not letting cars in and asking them to drive on!!  

Then suddenly they allowed the car in front of us into the forecourt. Then asked us to drive on.  Asked him why they let the other car in.. ‘she is a nurse!!’ Loved it. 

As we drive off, asked the mrs why she did not say who she was.. Mrs said she did not plan to use this car for work next week. She was going to queue up with her car on Monday. Not sure I knew if to cry or to laugh.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 2, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Driving on the M25 towards Kent. There were signs that the Services between J5-J6 had diesel. So went in only to see two attendants not letting cars in and asking them to drive on!! 

Then suddenly they allowed the car in front of us into the forecourt. Then asked us to drive on.  Asked him why they let the other car in.. ‘she is a nurse!!’ Loved it.

As we drive off, asked the mrs why she did not say who she was.. Mrs said she did not plan to use this car for work next week. She was going to queue up with her car on Monday. Not sure I knew if to cry or to laugh.
		
Click to expand...

Dunno if your wife is being commendable or one of them situations when the penny hasnt dropped


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Went to the Tesco garage this morning to get my coffee , no queues and a few empty pumps. Morrison’s - about 20 cars queuing 🤷‍♂️


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## SocketRocket (Oct 2, 2021)

My Daughter just informed me that a petrol station on the Chiswick high road roundabout has petrol at £2.93 a litre 😱


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## larmen (Oct 2, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			My Daughter just informed me that a petrol station on the Chiswick high road roundabout has petrol at £2.93 a litre 😱
		
Click to expand...

That explains why there wasn’t a queue when I went past it on Thursday. Jet a couple of hundred meters down the road was shut.

The ‘secret station’ in that wider area seems to be Tesco behind Twickenham stadium. Our local FB group often mentions that.


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## road2ruin (Oct 2, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			My Daughter just informed me that a petrol station on the Chiswick high road roundabout has petrol at £2.93 a litre 😱
		
Click to expand...

Hope people remember this and they go bust.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 2, 2021)

One thing I have noticed having done a lot of driving this last two weeks is the total absence of the vehicles of the big European haulage companies that were so very obvious all over the UK, I’m thinking of such as Danzas, Nedlloyd, and Kuhn and Nagel.  I didn’t see one single one on the drive from Perth to Farnham today…not one (though I wasn’t able to watch other side too much), but what struck me by their total absence was…what were they all transporting to the UK that isn’t being transported now, and likewise what were they taking back?

I also noticed in passing on the M74 in the borders near Dumfries a whole fleet of Currie Solutions UK and European haulage trucks parked up…and I didn’t even know they were based there having never noticed the trucks before.  I didn’t see if same was for Eddie Stobart outside Carlisle, but I could count on one hand the number of ES trucks I saw on the way..in fact I only recall seeing two.

I guess that this is all indicative of the haulage issues the industry and country are facing at the moment.

Plus…Only petrol at Oxford M40 services; only HGV fuel at Beaconsfield M40 services, and no fuel at Fleet M3.  Not good,


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Hope people remember this and they go bust.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately they won't. Same happened with Ryanair and the likes when they shafted their customers with refunds. 

The same people cryarsing are the same ones who are now booking cheap flights for next years holidays with the same firm......


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			One thing I have noticed having done a lot of motorway driving this last two weeks is the total absence of the vehicles of the big European haulage companies that were so very obvious all over the UK, I’m thinking of such as Danzas, Nedlloyd, and Kuhn and Nagel.  I didn’t see one single one on the drive from Perth to Farnham today…not one (though I wasn’t able to watch other side too much), but what struck me by their total absence was…what were they all transporting to the UK that isn’t being transported now, and likewise what were they taking back?

I also noticed in passing on the M74 in the borders a whole fleet of Currie European trucks parked up…didn’t see if same was for Eddie Stobart outside Carlisle, but I could count on one hand the number of ES trucks I saw on the way..in fact I only recall seeing two.

I guess that this is all indicative of the haulage issues the industry and country are facing at the moment.

Plus…Only petrol at Oxford M40 services; only HGV fuel at Beaconsfield M40 services, and no fuel at Fleet M3.  Not good,
		
Click to expand...

It must be a southern thing because everywhere I've been to around liverpool and upto Wigan,bar 1 garage, has all had petrol and diesel. 

I usually only use shell Vpower but they never had any so I just put standard diesel in.

Some, not all, of the queues have been down to thicko's waiting to see which lane becomes free 1st instead of parking in behind the furthest away then causing a massive tailback to get fuel.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			One thing I have noticed having done a lot of driving this last two weeks is the total absence of the vehicles of the big European haulage companies that were so very obvious all over the UK, I’m thinking of such as Danzas, Nedlloyd, and Kuhn and Nagel.  I didn’t see one single one on the drive from Perth to Farnham today…not one (though I wasn’t able to watch other side too much), but what struck me by their total absence was…what were they all transporting to the UK that isn’t being transported now, and likewise what were they taking back?

I also noticed in passing on the M74 in the borders near Dumfries a whole fleet of Currie Solutions UK and European haulage trucks parked up…and I didn’t even know they were based there having never noticed the trucks before.  I didn’t see if same was for Eddie Stobart outside Carlisle, but I could count on one hand the number of ES trucks I saw on the way..in fact I only recall seeing two.

I guess that this is all indicative of the haulage issues the industry and country are facing at the moment.

Plus…Only petrol at Oxford M40 services; only HGV fuel at Beaconsfield M40 services, and no fuel at Fleet M3.  Not good,
		
Click to expand...

We use Kuehne & Nagel at work amongst other freight companies. They are as busy as ever but you won't have seen many on the road today. They would have trunked freight down on Friday evening to their southern depot, Dartford I think, before they get sorted and set off across Europe.  They don't travel north to South on a Saturday or Sunday, on the whole. There may be some exceptions but that is generally how it works.

European hauliers are very much still working here. The depots are here, as they are across Europe. Hauliers are European, not just EU hauliers.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 2, 2021)

Stuart_C said:



			It must be a southern thing because everywhere I've been to around liverpool and upto Wigan,bar 1 garage, has all had petrol and diesel.

I usually only use shell Vpower but they never had any so I just put standard diesel in.

Some, not all, of the queues have been down to thicko's waiting to see which lane becomes free 1st instead of parking in behind the furthest away then causing a massive tailback to get fuel.
		
Click to expand...

All was good also up in Scotland, limits in some stations, but most seemed operating pretty much as normal.  We topped up in Gretna services just in case there were issues further south as I could see we’d be tight with what we had in tank, and there was a £35 maximum, but no queues anything out of ordinary.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 2, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We use Kuehne & Nagel at work amongst other freight companies. They are as busy as ever but you won't have seen many on the road today. They would have trunked freight down on Friday evening to their southern depot, Dartford I think, before they get sorted and set off across Europe.  They don't travel north to South on a Saturday or Sunday, on the whole. There may be some exceptions but that is generally how it works.
		
Click to expand...

Now I never knew that - but now I do. Interesting.  Perhaps the same for other EU hauliers then.  I just thought that if they werent here then what was not coming.  But not the case.


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## Mudball (Oct 2, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Dunno if your wife is being commendable or one of them situations when the penny hasnt dropped
		
Click to expand...

I often wonder about this myself 🤦‍♂️


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 2, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Now I never knew that - but now I do. Interesting.  Perhaps the same for other EU hauliers then.  I just thought that if they werent here then what was not coming.  But not the case.
		
Click to expand...

They are all still here, plenty of business for them. Hauliers work in regions through the day, trunk distance to Central depots through the night where things are sorted and shipped out again. The UK stuff largely stops at the weekend. There will be some exceptions but that is loosely how it goes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

Old couple in front of me when I was getting diesel for the wife got a grand total of £5.50 worth of fuel 🤦‍♂️


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## Stuart_C (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Old couple in front of me when I was getting diesel for the wife got a grand total of £5.50 worth of fuel 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

I bet the voted for brexit too🤭🤭

You should've let their tyres down, that'll learn them😁


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## larmen (Oct 2, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Old couple in front of me when I was getting diesel for the wife got a grand total of £5.50 worth of fuel 🤦‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

That’s not even 2 litres in Chiswick


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 2, 2021)

larmen said:



			That’s not even 2 litres in Chiswick
		
Click to expand...

Sorry it’s £8.79 and it’s 5.50 litres


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## backwoodsman (Oct 3, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			My Daughter just informed me that a petrol station on the Chiswick high road roundabout has petrol at £2.93 a litre 😱
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough. If anyone is stupid enough to pay that sort of price, then good luck to the petrol station is what I say.??


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## bobmac (Oct 3, 2021)

There was no shortage of drivers when the demand for fuel was normal, they were coping just fine.
However the normal amount of drivers are struggling to cope with the huge increase in demand.

You don't have to ask why there's a shortage of drivers, you only have to ask why there was/is a massive increase in demand.
To find that out you only have to turn on your tv/radio.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 3, 2021)

bobmac said:



			There was no shortage of drivers when the demand for fuel was normal, they were coping just fine.
However the normal amount of drivers are struggling to cope with the huge increase in demand.

You don't have to ask why there's a shortage of drivers, you only have to ask why there was/is a massive increase in demand.
To find that out you only have to turn on your tv/radio.
		
Click to expand...

What I hear is that with fuel supply (and supply of much else) we were walking a tightrope, with many drivers having left and continuing to leave the industry (and the UK) and not enough replacing them…and so it didn’t take much of a change in the demand profile for the JIT supply chain to fall off the tightrope. That a small change triggered a more significant change simply hastened and worsened the fall. But as posted previously many things were contributing to the JIT supply chain walking a tightrope.

https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/panic-buying-fuel.110054/post-2406875


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

upsidedown said:



			Full tank and just waiting to see if the rain will ease before we drag the wobble box down to Cornwall ☔😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Stacks of fuel down here


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			One of my memories of my time working at the FVRDE/MVEE was when they were developing the Scorpion a couple of guys took an unequipped early version out for a spin and were rumoured to have got more than 60MPH out of it.
		
Click to expand...

Went in one around the Nurburgring on a publicity shoot in the 70,s, those that knew could get it above 60 but not wise.


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

Travelling down the M3 & 303 west last night it was obvious that once you hit Wiltshire there was no problems with getting fuel.

Seems it’s a London and SE problem, an area which has more public transport and trains available than anywhere else. Some people appear happier driving around closed petrol stations than getting on a bus.


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## adam6177 (Oct 3, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Travelling down the M3 & 303 west last night it was obvious that once you hit Wiltshire there was no problems with getting fuel.

Seems it’s a London and SE problem, an area which has more public transport and trains available than anywhere else. Some people appear happier driving around closed petrol stations than getting on a bus.
		
Click to expand...

I saw the BBC news yesterday about London and south east being empty on fuel.... Well I live in South East and was driving around West Kent and East Sussex yesterday and saw no evidence of closed garages.  Yes the occasional one had queues but largely it looked back to normal..... so I'm not sure where they're getting their information from to report it in the fashion that they have.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 3, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			I saw the BBC news yesterday about London and south east being empty on fuel.... Well I live in South East and was driving around West Kent and East Sussex yesterday and saw no evidence of closed garages.  Yes the occasional one had queues but largely it looked back to normal..... so I'm not sure where they're getting their information from to report it in the fashion that they have.
		
Click to expand...

Not largely back to normal yet in Kent, some stations getting some supplies, but those that do have queues and reduced pump numbers open.
 It's going to be a while before things retrun to normal and the gloating "Mines electric" stops.


----------



## bobmac (Oct 3, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What I hear is that with fuel supply (and supply of much else) we were walking a tightrope, with many drivers having left and continuing to leave the industry (and the UK) and not enough replacing them…and so it didn’t take much of a change in the demand profile for the JIT supply chain to fall off the tightrope. That a small change triggered a more significant change simply hastened and worsened the fall. But as posted previously many things were contributing to the JIT supply chain walking a tightrope.

https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/panic-buying-fuel.110054/post-2406875

Click to expand...

Dress it up any way you want, the media told the public there was going to be a shortage of petrol/diesel and sat back and watched the public do the rest.
Anything that might be conceived as possibly bad news is jumped on and sensationalised by the headline hunting media to fill their pages because as we all know, good news isn't news.



adam6177 said:



			I saw the BBC news yesterday about London and south east being empty on fuel.... Well I live in South East and was driving around West Kent and East Sussex yesterday and saw no evidence of closed garages.
		
Click to expand...

As long as the media keeps telling people there is no fuel, the panic will continue.


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## Billysboots (Oct 3, 2021)

bobmac said:



			As long as the media keeps telling people there is no fuel, the panic will continue.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more, and I would add social media to the list. We have two garages in my local town, and every time they get a delivery you can guarantee some idiot will proudly take to social media, eager to be the first one to spread the word and play the Good Samaritan.

The result? The pumps run dry again within hours.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 3, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What I hear is that with fuel supply (and supply of much else) we were walking a tightrope, with many drivers having left and continuing to leave the industry (and the UK) and not enough replacing them…and so it didn’t take much of a change in the demand profile for the JIT supply chain to fall off the tightrope. That a small change triggered a more significant change simply hastened and worsened the fall. But as posted previously many things were contributing to the JIT supply chain walking a tightrope.

https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/panic-buying-fuel.110054/post-2406875

Click to expand...

According to the ONS fewer than 10,000 EU nationals who were HGV drivers have left the country post-Brexit. And they did not all depart at the same time.

If we are to believe that there is a  shortfall of 100,000 drivers and if the aforesaid 10,000 were all to return the effect would be minimal.

This shortage of qualified drivers has been forecast by some for a number of years now but the industry, in general,  has appeared to adopt an ostrich like position.

Existing margins are tight for transport so if wages are to be increased to attract more entrants costs for transport must increase leading to increased prices for the consumer.

(Mod note, last paragraph removed, political)


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## SocketRocket (Oct 3, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			According to the ONS fewer than 10,000 EU nationals who were HGV drivers have left the car post-Brexit. And they did not all depart at the same time.

If we are to believe that there is a  shortfall of 100,000 drivers and if the aforesaid 10,000 were all to return the effect would be minimal.

This shortage of qualified drivers has been forecast by some for a number of years now but the industry, in general,  has appeared to adopt an ostrich like position.

Existing margins are tight for transport so if wages are to be increased to attract more entrants costs for transport must increase leading to increased prices for the consumer.
		
Click to expand...

Spot on.  We have been hearing workers in many industries complaining about their wages and conditions being undercut by immigrant labour for decades and if they didn't like it they were met with 'If you don't like it then there are plenty  more who will do the job for less'.

Immigrants may have 'Gone back home' but so have the Chickens gone back home to roost.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 3, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			Couldn’t agree more, and I would add social media to the list. We have two garages in my local town, and every time they get a delivery you can guarantee some idiot will proudly take to social media, eager to be the first one to spread the word and play the Good Samaritan.

The result? The pumps run dry again within hours.
		
Click to expand...

In the words of Tony Benn….
“But if there is hope, it lies in ordinary working people. When you put it in words it sounds reasonable: it is when you look at the human beings passing you on the pavement that it becomes an act of faith”

He was talking about socialism but I think it applies here!


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## IanM (Oct 3, 2021)

All true,  but when you look at the number of uk national retiring from or leaving the industry and 18 months of virtually training and testing... you get a shortage! 

No sensationalist reporting and you get no shortage


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 3, 2021)

Threads getting political again, despite warnings 
Posts will be removed, perps infracted and the thread closed if it continues


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 3, 2021)

How can the subject of tanker driver shortages and solutions be discussed without reference to policy as that is a contributing factor. All that happens is that some reasons and solutions can be discussed but some cannot, and that is inherently imbalanced.  

I note that my post actually and implicitly supportive of some things the government is calling for, and that others have posted on in this thread without censure, has been removed.

Close the thread.


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## bobmac (Oct 3, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			How can the subject of tanker driver shortages and solutions be discussed without reference to policy as that is a contributing factor. All that happens is that some reasons and solutions can be discussed but some cannot, and that is inherently imbalanced. 

I note that my post actually and implicitly supportive of some things the government is calling for, and that others have posted on in this thread without censure, has been removed.

Close the thread.
		
Click to expand...


1. If the media hadn't caused the current panic buying, there would be enough drivers.
2. How do you know other posts haven't been removed?
3. No, the thread will not be closed, no-one put you in charge of this thread.


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## CliveW (Oct 3, 2021)

I was watching the London Marathon on TV this morning, and as the runners passed by petrol stations I didn't see a single person queuing for fuel!


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

bobmac said:



			1. If the media hadn't caused the current panic buying, there would be enough drivers.
2. How do you know other posts haven't been removed?
3. No, the thread will not be closed, no-one put you in charge of this thread.
		
Click to expand...

That’s what happens when an argument is debunked


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 3, 2021)

bobmac said:



			1. If the media hadn't caused the current panic buying, there would be enough drivers.
2. How do you know other posts haven't been removed?
3. No, the thread will not be closed, no-one put you in charge of this thread.
		
Click to expand...

1. That is a subject of debate.  I can think of other contributing causes that I cannot post on as they will deemed political.
2. There are plenty of posts on causes and solutions on this thread.  I can think of other contributing causes and solutions that I cannot post on as they will deemed political.
3. I requested that the thread be closed as Mod has warned, because 1) and 2) result in the discussion being imbalanced/biased.  I think that that is obvious.  That alternative causes and solutions might, in the eyes of some, be debunked should not exclude them from being raised and discussed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 3, 2021)

bobmac said:



			1. If the media hadn't caused the current panic buying, there would be enough drivers.
2. How do you know other posts haven't been removed?
3. No, the thread will not be closed, no-one put you in charge of this thread.
		
Click to expand...

Everyone is always looking to blame the media etc without looking inwards at themselves 

The initial media stories weren’t stating there was a fuel shortage beyond stating a few stations were having to close due to a lack of deliveries

It seems the general public will always look to find someone else to blame beyond themselves.


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			1. That is a subject of debate.  I can think of other contributing causes that I cannot post on as they will deemed political.
2. There are plenty of posts on causes and solutions on this thread.  I can think of other contributing causes and solutions that I cannot post on as they will deemed political.
3. I requested that the thread be closed as Mod has warned, because 1) and 2) result in the discussion being imbalanced/biased.  I think that that is obvious.  That alternative causes and solutions might, in the eyes of some, be debunked should not exclude them from being raised and discussed.
		
Click to expand...

Then explain why the week prior to the fuel stories hitting the headlines there were no shortages.

As @Liverpoolphil just posted there were a small number of deliveries that were behind affecting a small number of petrol stations.

PS it wasn't a government minister that leaked the meeting where this was discussed but a civil servant which is now under investigation.


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## Mudball (Oct 3, 2021)

FT quoting sources saying driver shortage was raised 3 months ago but Jr Minister dismissed it as ‘crying wolf’. You can see both sides of the argument. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1444269181860524035


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## adam6177 (Oct 3, 2021)

I think it's naive to not consider that there is a bigger picture behind all this.

Think of every Christmas time, there will be a news story stating that toy X that all the kids will want could be difficult to get hold of due to demand out stripping supply.... Then low and behold people rush out to buy and cause the "predicted" issue.  It happened over the last year with Xbox and ps5 as well.... This petrol is simply the adult version of it.

I'm not surprised this thread has taken a political tone...in recent years BreXit has been shoe horned in and blamed for everything under the sun because it fits the agenda. We know the score and how it will be the scapegoat for everything rather than looking for a real reason.

As for petrol.... Asda this morning was empty, fully opened fuel pumps and no issues whatsoever.


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## drdel (Oct 3, 2021)

It's very simple and politicians have little real influence in the short term. 

JIT manufacture and Lean Supply Chains have no resilience because the buffers of stock no longer exist. The UK fuel sector operates JIT so when there's a disruption or abnormal peak in demand the SC falls over: ìt is a reality of a society where "pile it high and sell it cheap" is the norm. 

Media induced demand spikes will find the vulnerability. Its happening internationally. You might remember the car industry being disrupted by microprocessor shortages. You will see more international impact as certain nations flex their muscles on rare earth metals, energy etc


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## road2ruin (Oct 3, 2021)

adam6177 said:



			Asda this morning was empty, fully opened fuel pumps and no issues whatsoever.
		
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Not sure where you are based but it’s definitely a regional thing. I didn’t panic buy but now regret it. Had plans for tomorrow but looks like I’ll be cancelling as there is no where that I can find around me that has petrol. Can’t even queue at the moment, just closed forecourts.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 3, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Not sure where you are based but it’s definitely a regional thing. I didn’t panic buy but now regret it. Had plans for tomorrow but looks like I’ll be cancelling as there is no where that I can find around me that has petrol. Can’t even queue at the moment, just closed forecourts.
		
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The issue started as a SE thing and it seems as though that remains as the rest of the country stabilises. I'm guessing when the military tankers come into use tomorrow that they will be concentrated in your neck of the woods in order to relieve the pressure. Hopefully you will be okay soon 👍


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## adam6177 (Oct 3, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Not sure where you are based but it’s definitely a regional thing. I didn’t panic buy but now regret it. Had plans for tomorrow but looks like I’ll be cancelling as there is no where that I can find around me that has petrol. Can’t even queue at the moment, just closed forecourts.
		
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Just outside Hastings... But yesterday I was at my parents in Tonbridge. All the garages en route were open and no huge queues.


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## Mudball (Oct 3, 2021)

Mrs was out shopping at Sainsburys...  saw no queue at the petrol station, filled up and doen in about 10 mins...   But still no diesel. ..  hopefully next week, we get diesel supplies.


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## Imurg (Oct 3, 2021)

Out and about this morning and, while we still have queues, they seem to be shorter and less disruptive to other traffic than recently. 
Proof will be tomorrow and Tuesday.....


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## nickjdavis (Oct 3, 2021)

Car tells me its got 111 miles left in the tank....didn't go to golf today as that's a 35 mile round trip...last time I was out and about on Friday I went past 5 garages...four of them of them the forecourts were coned off, the fifth had a queue of traffic some 25 vehicles long blocking a main road and causing significant traffic issues.

Missus was out on Thursday evening and said that most garages were the same that she went past.

No real need to go out anywhere frivolous this coming week so hopefully by the time I use up my 111 miles on important non-frivolous journeys, then perhaps there might be a little bit less of this madness.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 3, 2021)

Most seem open here but the Diesel pumps are all closed.


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## upsidedown (Oct 3, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Stacks of fuel down here
		
Click to expand...

Yarp, doing 2 nights in Clevedon on way down and filled up with £70.00 in local Tesco this morning 😉 😁


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 3, 2021)

Just had a whizz round the local filling stations in Farnham to check them out for a friend who is almost empty and needs fuel for work tomorrow and through the week.  All four closed as out of fuel.  Haven’t checked a fifth and sixth just outside of town Aldershot way.  

I will update the forum on local situation as best I can find out myself and ascertain from others, given H4H on Friday and pre-H4H on Thursday will see many forummers in this immediate locality.  But obviously I’m not going to be able to be driving around looking near and not so near…as I’ve not got that much in the tank myself.


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Just had a whizz round the local filling stations in Farnham to check them out for a friend who is almost empty and needs fuel for work tomorrow and through the week.  All four closed as out of fuel.  Haven’t checked a fifth and sixth just outside of town Aldershot way. 

I will update the forum on local situation as best I can find out myself and ascertain from others, given H4H on Friday and pre-H4H on Thursday will see many forummers in this locality.  But obviously I’m not going to be driving around looking near and not so near…
		
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There was fuel at the the Morrisons in Aldershot yesterday


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 3, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			There was fuel at the the Morrisons in Aldershot yesterday
		
Click to expand...

I’ll let my friend know - though I might just pop along for her as it’s only a couple or three miles away.👍 But given status of Farnham filling stations 20mims ago I’m thinking it may not have any now…


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## Crow (Oct 3, 2021)

I wonder how many millions of miles have been clocked up by people driving round to check on garages.


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I’ll let my friend know - though I might just pop along for her as it’s only a couple or three miles away.👍 But given status of Farnham filling stations 20mims ago I’m thinking it may not have any now…
		
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Bit of a queue at the traffic lights turning in because of cars going into car park but had someone out controlling movement.


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## Old Skier (Oct 3, 2021)

Crow said:



			I wonder how many millions of miles have been clocked up by people driving round to check on garages.
		
Click to expand...

Now you tourists have gone plenty for us


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## Voyager EMH (Oct 4, 2021)

I had way over half a tank when the panic started. Went to Tesco/Texaco yesterday morning at 10:45 and only 3 of the 12 pumps were occupied. Much quieter than usual.
So many drivers still seem intent on using as much fuel as possible in as short a distance as possible by driving like idiots.


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## Mudball (Oct 4, 2021)

The great British public

*Man who tailed tanker driver angry he didn’t stop to say he wasn’t carrying fuel*
https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/02/fuel...d-tanker-driver-angry-he-didnt-stop-15353574/


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## Canary_Yellow (Oct 4, 2021)

Easing up a bit here now. Most petrol stations have fuel and queues much shorter, or no queue at all in some cases.

Hopefully deliveries keep coming and if petrol stations manage to avoid running out in between, we'll be back to normal in a few days


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## arnieboy (Oct 4, 2021)

I am on the south coast and the situation has been quite difficult,  just happened to go past Sainsbury's this morning, no queue and plenty of fuel. Took the opportunity to fill up.


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## HeftyHacker (Oct 4, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Now you tourists have gone plenty for us 

Click to expand...

Very true, was down near Borth for a wedding at the weekend and there wasn't any issue in the filling stations down there. I was stupid really, should have filled up before the journey home but didn't bother as I had comfortably enough to get me back. By the time I got home it was back to the now familiar sight of either mad queues or empty filling stations that had run out.


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## Imurg (Oct 4, 2021)

Having my lunch in Tesco's car park, as I do, and I witnessed the formation of a queue.
As I drove in there was a tanker at the filling station which was closed.
1 car was waiting at the entrance, others turned round.
I went in to get my sandwich, 10 minutes later the queue was around the car park and out onto the road..
Guess we still have a problem here....


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## Dando (Oct 4, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Dogging in Tesco's car park, as I do, and I witnessed the formation of a queue.
As I drove in there was a tanker at the filling station which was closed.
1 car was waiting at the entrance, others turned round.
I went in to get my sandwich, 10 minutes later the queue was around the car park and out onto the road..
Guess we still have a problem here....
		
Click to expand...

Fixed it for you mate 🤣🤣


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## Imurg (Oct 4, 2021)

Dando said:



			Fixed it for you mate 🤣🤣
		
Click to expand...

You think anyone on Earth would want that with me?


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## Dando (Oct 4, 2021)

Imurg said:



			You think anyone on Earth would want that with me?

Click to expand...

There’s some proper perverts out there


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## Voyager EMH (Oct 4, 2021)

Dando said:



			There’s some proper perverts out there
		
Click to expand...

Can you supply names and addresses?


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## GB72 (Oct 4, 2021)

Tanker on site and literally no queue at Melton Tesco today.


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## Orikoru (Oct 4, 2021)

I'm all petrolled up so I can relax again. First two stations we tried were either sold out or had diesel only, then the third one was a BP garage, same one I got petrol from ten days ago actually, had petrol and the queue wasn't really that long. Took us only about 15-20 minutes overall. 

Irritatingly ironic that normally a full tank would last me 4 weeks, but sod's law I'm doing more driving this week and next than ever before.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 4, 2021)

The military are being used to help deliver fuel. So public money in the form of wages and training costs are being spent to help private companies make money. What incentive is there for these companies to solve driver shortages when they get bailed out by tax payers money in the form of the military delivering goods for them?


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## larmen (Oct 4, 2021)

Drove past 3 stations on my shopping trip today, 1 was open, no queue and selling. Could have stopped but don’t need it yet.

Car came of the court right in front of me, stalled a few seconds later. Best case would be air in the system and hopefully starting before the battery goes flat; worst case would be petrol in a diesel when the tank was dry.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 4, 2021)

@ColchesterFC I would expect the companies are paying for the pleasure of the 'contractors' that have been brought in. Hopefully at market rate, maybe more, money going back to the Treasury. 

This is embarrassing for those companies involved, BP being the main one. It's a PR disaster and they will not want a repeat.


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## IanM (Oct 4, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			The military are being used to help deliver fuel. So public money in the form of wages and training costs are being spent to help private companies make money. What incentive is there for these companies to solve driver shortages when they get bailed out by tax payers money in the form of the military delivering goods for them?
		
Click to expand...

Or public money is being used to keep the economy moving and averting a longer problem?    Depends on how you see it.  

I guess the police could have patrolled forecourts last week and nicked anyone filling up with more a 1/4 tank full

Maybe that'd have a few foaming at the mouth


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## BiMGuy (Oct 4, 2021)

IanM said:



			Or public money is being used to keep the economy moving and averting a longer problem?    Depends on how you see it. 

I guess the police could have patrolled forecourts last week and nicked anyone filling up with more a 1/4 tank full

Maybe that'd have a few foaming at the mouth
		
Click to expand...

Public money that is being spent on wages regardless of whether they drive some trucks or sit polishing their boots.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 4, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Public money that is being spent on wages regardless of whether they drive some trucks or sit polishing their boots.
		
Click to expand...

Public money that is being spent on wages that are enabling private companies to make a profit. I hope that LT is correct and that the companies are being charged for the contractors and aren't getting them for free.


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## drdel (Oct 5, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Public money that is being spent on wages that are enabling private companies to make a profit. I hope that LT is correct and that the companies are being charged for the contractors and aren't getting them for free.
		
Click to expand...

The military staff costs are a sunk cost, by driving commercial trucks the marginal cost compared to what they may have been doing could well be less!


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## DRW (Oct 5, 2021)

The bottom line is almost no business can cope with an unexpected big 'run' on it.

JIT systems make the matter worse, as stocks held are low, but larger stocks don't mean an instant solution and almost no business can affordable the massive excess capacity just in case.

Doesn't matter if you are the NHS(Virus), Petrol Stations, a Bank(Northern rock), Shops(loo rolls, pasta, tin food etc), builders(current mad rush), Golf courses(the massive increase under covid), Stock Market(crashs) and so on. They just can not cope.

You need to stop the 'runs', that is the only solution. Finding a solution to stopping the 'runs' is far harder than said, as the modern technology means runs happen faster and harder


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## yandabrown (Oct 5, 2021)

DRW said:



			The bottom line is almost no business can cope with an unexpected big 'run' on it.

JIT systems make the matter worse, as stocks held are low, but larger stocks don't mean an instant solution and almost no business can affordable the massive excess capacity just in case.

Doesn't matter if you are the NHS(Virus), Petrol Stations, a Bank(Northern rock), Shops(loo rolls, pasta, tin food etc), builders(current mad rush), Golf courses(the massive increase under covid), Stock Market(crashs) and so on. They just can not cope.

You need to stop the 'runs', that is the only solution. Finding a solution to stopping the 'runs' is far harder than said, as the modern technology means runs happen faster and harder

Click to expand...

Didn't we all learn this watching Mary Poppins in our youth?


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## DRW (Oct 5, 2021)

The poll above, this forum is made up of saints and does not reflect the general public


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## GB72 (Oct 5, 2021)

DRW said:



			The poll above, this forum is made up of saints and does not reflect the general public

Click to expand...

Looks like I am the only one who put my hand up and said 'yes'. That said, I happened to be at a supermarket the day this all started kicking off, saw the queue starting to build and so bought enough fuel for the next week or so to be safe. The fact that I bought fuel when I would not normally have done so (would have done it a few days later) due to a queue at the petrol station is classed to me as panic buying. Not sure that I was ever worried at that stage that I would not be able to get fuel the following week, was more worried about having to sit in a queue for ages.


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## DRW (Oct 5, 2021)

yandabrown said:



			Didn't we all learn this watching Mary Poppins in our youth?
		
Click to expand...


Mary poppins, was before my time.  I watched 'Why dont you' in my youth.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Looks like I am the only one who put my hand up and said 'yes'. That said, I happened to be at a supermarket the day this all started kicking off, saw the queue starting to build and so bought enough fuel for the next week or so to be safe. The fact that I bought fuel when I would not normally have done so (would have done it a few days later) due to a queue at the petrol station is classed to me as panic buying. Not sure that I was ever worried at that stage that I would not be able to get fuel the following week, was more worried about having to sit in a queue for ages.
		
Click to expand...

Not alone.  I topped up with £20 (and was given pelters on here for doing so) but as I was in the middle of nowhere in Scotland heading to Skye with no idea of the situation in Skye or indeed how many filling stations there were,
and no idea how long the problem would continue, I took the opportunity when I spotted a station with no customers.

When voting in the poll I did not consider my ‘top up’ to be panic buying as commonly portrayed - rather I saw it as a mitigation against me running out in the middle of nowhere.  But I accept that some consider my actions to be panic buying and so I should have chosen Yes in the poll.  And I expect I am not alone in doing what I did, or something similar, and who voted No.

As it happens fuel supply to the filling station local to where we were in Skye was pretty much OK, though at the outset there were queues of campers vans filling up…but like me they did not know what they fuel supply situation in the Highlands and Islands would be.


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## DRW (Oct 5, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Looks like I am the only one who put my hand up and said 'yes'. That said, I happened to be at a supermarket the day this all started kicking off, saw the queue starting to build and so bought enough fuel for the next week or so to be safe. The fact that I bought fuel when I would not normally have done so (would have done it a few days later) due to a queue at the petrol station is classed to me as panic buying. Not sure that I was ever worried at that stage that I would not be able to get fuel the following week, was more worried about having to sit in a queue for ages.
		
Click to expand...

The area I live in(which could be like yours, as think you are a bit more rural based, rather than city), tend to have an oversupply of supermarkets/petrol stations, so we only had a brief run here(a few days I believe) and you could still purchase fuel. 

Just before going on holiday, when I needed to fill up, one station was closed, one didn't have any diesel(no queues tho) and the next one did have diesel, so followed my normal pattern, of going from about 1/4-1/2 tank to full. Scotland, no problems in the highlands.
On arriving back, I filled up at the normal petrol station just before getting home(no queues, all grade of fuel available). If there had been queues on the way home, I would have driven home.

But being honest, if I had not filled up on the way home, I would have been out first thing the following day to fill up.


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## Mudball (Oct 5, 2021)

This thread about Kirstie Allsop running out of fuel has some hilarious responses


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445309632860282883


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## adam6177 (Oct 5, 2021)

DRW said:



			The poll above, this forum is made up of saints and does not reflect the general public

Click to expand...

More likely that people believe their habits aren't panicking.... So I think verging on delusional is more accurate.


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## harpo_72 (Oct 6, 2021)

Mudball said:



			This thread about Kirstie Allsop running out of fuel has some hilarious responses


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445309632860282883

Click to expand...

That is a very amusing tweet and response … she is getting a right kicking 🤣


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## theoneandonly (Oct 6, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Looks like I am the only one who put my hand up and said 'yes'. That said, I happened to be at a supermarket the day this all started kicking off, saw the queue starting to build and so bought enough fuel for the next week or so to be safe. The fact that I bought fuel when I would not normally have done so (would have done it a few days later) due to a queue at the petrol station is classed to me as panic buying. Not sure that I was ever worried at that stage that I would not be able to get fuel the following week, was more worried about having to sit in a queue for ages.
		
Click to expand...

The poll was closed when I answered but I was all over it. We've Just finished the last of my jerry cans.


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## D-S (Oct 6, 2021)

Drove to Cornwall and back (from Bristol way) over the last couple of days (panic golfing before the weather runs out) and no signs whatsoever of a fuel crisis anywhere.


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## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2021)

Interesting article here.  You can see a lot of it is down to the model that the suppliers use to fill their stations, rather than trying to blame it all on the Government or Brexit. 
How an extra five litres of petrol helped cause the country to grind to a halt
Like many companies, they use a "just-in-time" system and the panic buying put strains on the overall supply chain, which was exacerbated by lack of drivers.


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## Mudball (Oct 6, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			Interesting article here.  You can see a lot of it is down to the model that the suppliers use to fill their stations, rather than trying to blame it all on the Government or Brexit.
How an extra five litres of petrol helped cause the country to grind to a halt
Like many companies, they use a "just-in-time" system and the panic buying put strains on the overall supply chain, which was exacerbated by lack of drivers.
		
Click to expand...

i must say, i read it and it is a classic case of oversimplifying a complex issue..  Statistically they are correct, it was a case of increasing average consumption by 5.   The JIT model is based on efficiency and also managing to keep costs down.  We learnt last week that the breaking point of that fuel JIT system is 5L.  
Unfortunately statistical and operational models dont take into account the stupidity of the people that use it.  IMO, it as a black swan event and move on.  Should not look to change the JIT model model - will lead to bigger shocks up the supply chain.

Of course, the Govt now blaming businesses for not being prepared for events that they were told wont happen is not going to help.


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## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2021)

Mudball said:



			i must say, i read it and it is a classic case of oversimplifying a complex issue..  Statistically they are correct, it was a case of increasing average consumption by 5.   The JIT model is based on efficiency and also managing to keep costs down.  We learnt last week that the breaking point of that fuel JIT system is 5L. 
Unfortunately statistical and operational models dont take into account the stupidity of the people that use it.  IMO, it as a black swan event and move on.  Should not look to change the JIT model model - will lead to bigger shocks up the supply chain.

Of course, the Govt now blaming businesses for not being prepared for events that they were told wont happen is not going to help.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that we should just move on.  I wasn't blaming it, I was just putting a reason (albeit simply explained) as to why we are in this situation.  
At the end of the day, if people didn't panic buy, then this wouldn't happen.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 6, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			I agree that we should just move on.  I wasn't blaming it, I was just putting a reason (albeit simply explained) as to why we are in this situation.
At the end of the day, if people didn't panic buy, then this wouldn't happen.
		
Click to expand...

This is true…but the best tightrope walkers avoid doing so where the wind is likely to suddenly change and subject the walker to strong gusts…they mitigate the risk and either choose to walk elsewhere or ensure they have a net or safety harness.

And so for fuel, if JIT means walking a tightrope then one obvious mitigation would be to ensure that there are sufficient drivers and tankers immediately available to support a sudden increase in demand.  And clearly these last couple of weeks tell us that that is not currently the case.  The industry and JIT in respect of fuel, essentially requires supernumeracy…and that will cost us all at the pump unless we can tap into a ready supply that is not paid by UK business to be on stand-bye.


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## drdel (Oct 6, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			This is true…but the best tightrope walkers avoid doing so where the wind is likely to suddenly change and subject the walker to strong gusts…they mitigate the risk and either choose to walk elsewhere or ensure they have a net or safety harness.

And so for fuel, if JIT means walking a tightrope then one obvious mitigation would be to ensure that there are sufficient drivers and tankers immediately available to support a sudden increase in demand.  And clearly these last couple of weeks tell us that that is not currently the case.  The industry and JIT in respect of fuel, essentially requires supernumeracy…and that will cost us all at the pump unless we can tap into a ready supply that is not paid by UK business to be on stand-bye.
		
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The 'Lean' supply chain reduces costs. If you want to pay more for products then companies might hold buffer stocks- but I suspect not as its become an embedded concept as the high ROI is liked by the city and shareholders.


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## Mudball (Oct 6, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			This is true…but the best tightrope walkers avoid doing so where the wind is likely to suddenly change and subject the walker to strong gusts…they mitigate the risk and either choose to walk elsewhere or ensure they have a net or safety harness.

And so for fuel, if JIT means walking a tightrope then one obvious mitigation would be to ensure that there are sufficient drivers and tankers immediately available to support a sudden increase in demand.  And clearly these last couple of weeks tell us that that is not currently the case.  The industry and JIT in respect of fuel, essentially requires supernumeracy…and that will cost us all at the pump unless we can tap into a ready supply that is not paid by UK business to be on stand-bye.
		
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JIT has been part of supply chains for decades now. In fact it would have fine tuned over the years to cope with a level of unexpected or seasonal demand eg. If heavy snow is predicted in a region, they might ensure more diesel etc. A run on a petrol station is not a normal event and is not baked into the thresholds.  They may do desktop scenario planning.  Last week unfortunately, it happened and it was coupled with other factors like panic buying, lack of drivers etc, the system did not have time to react. I am not assuming it will change the JIT models, they may fine tune how much is available before replenishing. Also scenario planning will incorporate new elements around lack of drivers, media frenzy, incompetence of those who lead us etc.


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## Mudball (Oct 6, 2021)

drdel said:



			The 'Lean' supply chain reduces costs. If you want to pay more for products then companies might hold buffer stocks- but I suspect not as its become an embedded concept as the high ROI is liked by the city and shareholders.
		
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More succinct than me…


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2021)

Mudball said:



			JIT has been part of supply chains for decades now. In fact it would have fine tuned over the years to cope with a level of unexpected or seasonal demand eg. If heavy snow is predicted in a region, they might ensure more diesel etc. A run on a petrol station is not a normal event and is not baked into the thresholds.  They may do desktop scenario planning.  Last week unfortunately, it happened and it was coupled with other factors like panic buying, lack of drivers etc, the system did not have time to react. I am not assuming it will change the JIT models, they may fine tune how much is available before replenishing. Also scenario planning will incorporate new elements around lack of drivers, media frenzy, incompetence of those who lead us etc.
		
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To be fair to the system, there was always sufficient fuel, the crucial bit in my eyes although perhaps not to other people. The issue became getting it out frequently enough to cope with the spike in demand. I would be far more worried about a lack of fuel than the ability to get it into the stations. Transport should be relatively easy to resolve, the physical lack of fuel, much more difficult.


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## Mudball (Oct 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair to the system, there was always sufficient fuel, the crucial bit in my eyes although perhaps not to other people. The issue became getting it out frequently enough to cope with the spike in demand. I would be far more worried about a *lack of fuel *than the ability to get it into the stations. Transport should be relatively easy to resolve, the physical lack of fuel, much more difficult.
		
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Dont start a new round of panic buying...  Golf balls are in shorter supply than petrol at the moment.    

But i agree with your point - dialing up the transport velocity is an easier problem to solve.   Apparently not acc to the Govt, since a whole of 27 EU drivers have applied for the new visa.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 6, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Dont start a new round of panic buying...  Golf balls are in shorter supply than petrol at the moment.   

But i agree with your point - dialing up the transport velocity is an easier problem to solve.   Apparently not acc to the Govt, since a whole of 27 EU drivers have applied for the new visa.
		
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Not sure how you dial up transport velocity without more drivers and more trucks.  The latter is easy.  Where do the former come from when they are required to cope with a surge in demand.  

pNursing used to cope with issues of workload when numbers were down for whatever reason, by student nurses being mostly trained on the job and supernumerary.  Not so nowadays - and hospitals have to go to expensive agency nursing when numbers are down.  Maybe that’s an answer - agency tanker drivers - but we know they’d be very expensive and so we’ll be asked to foot the bill to some degree.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not sure how you dial up transport velocity without more drivers and more trucks.  The latter is easy.  Where do the former come from when they are required to cope with a surge in demand. 

pNursing used to cope with issues of workload when numbers were down for whatever reason, by student nurses being mostly trained on the job and supernumerary.  Not so nowadays - and hospitals have to go to expensive agency nursing when numbers are down.  Maybe that’s an answer - agency tanker drivers - but we know they’d be very expensive and so we’ll be asked to foot the bill to some degree.
		
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I suspect most tanker drivers are now contractors, either private or more likely via a firm. The days of fuel companies employing their own drivers are largely gone, sadly, as a cost cutting measure. There will be drivers around, they just need to be enticed to do the job. No doubt wages have been driven down by the fuel companies screwing down contracts. The main way for firms to win these is to reduce pay and conditions. It seems as though this finally caught up with BP and this is the price. It may lead to higher prices, they may take it on the chin elsewhere and absorb costs, but in the grand scheme of an oil companies turnover, the pay of tanker drivers is pretty darned small.


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## Mudball (Oct 6, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect most tanker drivers are now contractors, either private or more likely via a firm. The days of fuel companies employing their own drivers are largely gone, sadly, as a cost cutting measure. There will be drivers around, they just need to be enticed to do the job. No doubt wages have been driven down by the fuel companies screwing down contracts. The main way for firms to win these is to reduce pay and conditions. It seems as though this *finally caught up with BP *and this is the price. It may lead to higher prices, they may take it on the chin elsewhere and absorb costs, but in the grand scheme of an oil companies turnover, the pay of tanker drivers is pretty darned small.
		
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Other than the bad press... has any Oil company or independents lost any money in this fiasco?  you could argue that some may have actually made a few extra bucks..


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## Piece (Oct 6, 2021)

Queues have definitely died down in my area this last few days


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## Neilds (Oct 6, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not sure how you dial up transport velocity without more drivers and more trucks.  The latter is easy.  Where do the former come from when they are required to cope with a surge in demand. 

pNursing used to cope with issues of workload when numbers were down for whatever reason, by student nurses being mostly trained on the job and supernumerary.  Not so nowadays - and hospitals have to go to expensive agency nursing when numbers are down.  Maybe that’s an answer - agency tanker drivers - but we know they’d be very expensive and so we’ll be asked to foot the bill to some degree.
		
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They need to look at the whole package for drivers.  I'm not sure I would be willing to retrain to get similar to what I am on now to sleep in my truck in laybys, eat overpriced, crap service station food, etc.  From what is being said, these issues are causing as many to leave as the bad pay.  

Although I am led to believe there are certain perks to be had in laybys at night


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 6, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Other than the bad press... has any Oil company or independents lost any money in this fiasco?  you could argue that some may have actually made a few extra bucks..
		
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Oil companies have scored big time in this. For those big boys who extract, they have made even more. Their costs are the same but demand ha pushed prices up. It's a win win for them


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## SocketRocket (Oct 6, 2021)

Neilds said:



			They need to look at the whole package for drivers.  I'm not sure I would be willing to retrain to get similar to what I am on now to sleep in my truck in laybys, eat overpriced, crap service station food, etc.  From what is being said, these issues are causing as many to leave as the bad pay. 

Although I am led to believe there are certain perks to be had in laybys at night 

Click to expand...

There must be good business opportunities to provide rest facilities for truck drivers, the question is why are they not available, is it that the Drivers or their employers are not prepared to pay for them?  They seem to be available in other countries.

I don't understand whether electric trucks are a realistic proposition in the near future, if they're not then why don't we make more use of the rail infrastructure to move freight between major regional depots where road transport could carry out the local distribution.  It would certainly free up the national road system somewhat.


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## bobmac (Oct 6, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			I don't understand whether electric trucks are a realistic proposition in the near future,
		
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That would be weird, electric trucks delivering petrol/diesel


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## SocketRocket (Oct 6, 2021)

bobmac said:



			That would be weird, electric trucks delivering petrol/diesel  

Click to expand...

I kind of thought the idea of electrifying trucks was to reduce the need for petrol/diesel. If we have to move away from fossil fuel usage then I guess trucks will be a part of that plan.


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## chrisd (Oct 6, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			There must be good business opportunities to provide rest facilities for truck drivers, the question is why are they not available, is it that the Drivers or their employers are not prepared to pay for them?  They seem to be available in other countries.
		
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Living just a few miles from the channel tunnel and also one of the main routes to and from Dover we get plagued with lorry drivers, particularly from the European countries pitching up in lay byes and any where else that they dont have to pay for when coming to and from Europe. 

Its always been understood that they get an allowance to go to the various truck stops but if they save the money by stopping in a layby that increases their take home pay. Meanwhile someone in the UK clears up the mess they leave at ratepayers  expense


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## bobmac (Oct 6, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			I kind of thought the idea of electrifying trucks was to reduce the need for petrol/diesel. If we have to move away from fossil fuel usage then I guess trucks will be a part of that plan.
		
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I guess that would depend on the mileage.
There are still talks about using hydrogen for the long haul trucks but electric for the short haulers.
I'm looking forward to the day when DPD deliver my parcel in an electric van.

https://www.commercialfleet.org/new...oyal-mail-commits-to-3-000-more-electric-vans


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## Beezerk (Oct 6, 2021)

Piece said:



			Queues have definitely died down in my area this last few days
		
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Bloody hope so, driving down to Hillingdon this weekend and I'll need fuel on the way home.


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## Imurg (Oct 6, 2021)

Still plenty of queues but they are shorter...seems to be lack of diesel in the town at the moment...


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## rulefan (Oct 6, 2021)

Plenty of fuel everywhere now. Everybody is stuck at home with an empty fuel tank.


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## Robster59 (Oct 6, 2021)

bobmac said:



			I guess that would depend on the mileage.
There are still talks about using hydrogen for the long haul trucks but electric for the short haulers.
I'm looking forward to the day when DPD deliver my parcel in an electric van.

https://www.commercialfleet.org/new...oyal-mail-commits-to-3-000-more-electric-vans

Click to expand...

Our company has committed to hydrogen power for its trucks.  The fact we produce the hydrogen might help.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2021)

rulefan said:



			Plenty of fuel everywhere now. Everybody is stuck at home with an empty fuel tank.
		
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Or everyone is now at home with a full fuel tank having panic bought fuel that they didn't actually need.


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## Mudball (Oct 6, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Or everyone is now at home with a full fuel tank having panic bought fuel that they didn't actually need.
		
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Guildford area.. no diesel yet.  I am going to write to my MP and complain about it…..


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## Mudball (Oct 6, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			Our company has committed to hydrogen power for its trucks.  The fact we produce the hydrogen might help. 

Click to expand...

In my untrained mind, I struggle with hydrogen. Zeppelin is the first thing that comes to mind. h2 is a storage challenge. It needs more compression than regular fuel. Don’t fancy hearing about two mini zeppelins crashing into each other and closing the motorways. 

Also blue H2 provides another challenge on carbon storage. There is talks about CCS in the North Sea bed, but will it happen at this scale? Maybe we repurpose that co2 and use it for drinks and killing animals (apparently govt paying some american co a lot of money to keep co2 coming) 

My worry about leccy v H2 seems to be a bit of VHS v Betamax fight.  God knows which will win.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 6, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Guildford area.. no diesel yet.  I am going to write to my MP and complain about it…..
		
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North Suffolk area...all filling stations back to normal with no queues and all pumps open for all grades. I'm going to write to my MP to suggest that all of those that are panic buying are put in prison for 50 years for their own good as they are simply too stupid to be allowed to live among the rest of us.


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## larmen (Oct 6, 2021)

I have no idea how accurate it is, but someone made a fuel map for the south/east

https://www.ziggerwebdesign.co.uk/fuel-availability

There are stations missing on it, but it seems a good place to start from.


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## chellie (Oct 7, 2021)

Diesel but no petrol in our local garage that HID went to. No use to him.


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## road2ruin (Oct 7, 2021)

Decided not to be one of the panic buyers as it was suggested that it would resolve itself 'within a few days'. Still not got petrol where I am and have had to miss a few planned events due to uncertainty as to whether I would be able to get back. 

Next time I plan to be front and centre of any panic buying.


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## Robster59 (Oct 7, 2021)

Mudball said:



			In my untrained mind, I struggle with hydrogen. Zeppelin is the first thing that comes to mind. h2 is a storage challenge. It needs more compression than regular fuel. Don’t fancy hearing about two mini zeppelins crashing into each other and closing the motorways.

Also blue H2 provides another challenge on carbon storage. There is talks about CCS in the North Sea bed, but will it happen at this scale? Maybe we repurpose that co2 and use it for drinks and killing animals (apparently govt paying some american co a lot of money to keep co2 coming)

My worry about leccy v H2 seems to be a bit of VHS v Betamax fight.  God knows which will win.
		
Click to expand...

In reality, you can say that people have been driving around in a bomb for decades.  Petrol is highly flammable and will ignite easily.  You can see this by the number of vehicle fires there have been. The modern fuel cell vehicles are totally different from the days of the airships.  Our company would not put its name against anything that was going to be dangerous.


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## cliveb (Oct 7, 2021)

Mudball said:



			In my untrained mind, I struggle with hydrogen. Zeppelin is the first thing that comes to mind. h2 is a storage challenge. It needs more compression than regular fuel. Don’t fancy hearing about two mini zeppelins crashing into each other and closing the motorways.

Also blue H2 provides another challenge on carbon storage.
		
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As Robster has already explained, using a Zeppelin analogy is completely wrong.

But the major issue with H2 is that there are too many vested interests in forcing us down the blue hydrogen route. The big fossil fuel companies are desparate to keep pumping methane out of the ground, and blue hydrogen is their smoke-and-mirrors way of pretending it's good for the planet. I get the impression that some politicians wanting to claim green credentials are falling for it, and there's a danger that embracing blue hydrogen could become government policy.

I'm a big fan of going down the H2 route for long haul transport (and possibly home heating), but only if it's genuine green hydrogen generated by electrolysis using renewable electricity.
Problem is that it requires a heck of a lot of electricity to produce.


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## nickjdavis (Oct 7, 2021)

I had to go out yesterday....thought I'd try to fill up when I passed a garage.

1st one had no queues at all...just a couple of cars on the forecourt but had no diesel whatsover.

2nd one was busy as hell....but no diesel

3rd one was reasonably busy but had diesel

Situation seems to be easing but I guess there will still be local "pinch points" for the next few days before we return to normal...or as close to normal as is possbile.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 7, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			In reality, you can say that people have been driving around in a bomb for decades.  Petrol is highly flammable and will ignite easily. * You can see this by the number of vehicle fires there have been*. The modern fuel cell vehicles are totally different from the days of the airships.  Our company would not put its name against anything that was going to be dangerous.
		
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I also thought most car fires were a result of the hydraulic fluid igniting, not the petrol.


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## larmen (Oct 7, 2021)

cliveb said:



			I'm a big fan of going down the H2 route for long haul transport (and possibly home heating), but only if it's genuine green hydrogen generated by electrolysis using renewable electricity.
Problem is that it requires a heck of a lot of electricity to produce.
		
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In that case, why not heat with the renewable energy directly?


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## Mudball (Oct 7, 2021)

larmen said:



			In that case, why not heat with the renewable energy directly?
		
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That is coming in a few years..  google Teeside hydrogen project..


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## cliveb (Oct 7, 2021)

larmen said:



			In that case, why not heat with the renewable energy directly?
		
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Because many homes already have a radiator based central heating system so all you need to do is change the boiler instead of the major upheaval involved in installing some form of electrical system. Ripping out and throwing away something that works then replacing it with something that's been newly manufactured is not exactly environmentally friendly.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 7, 2021)

cliveb said:



			Because many homes already have a radiator based central heating system so all you need to do is change the boiler instead of the major upheaval involved in installing some form of electrical system. Ripping out and throwing away something that works then replacing it with something that's been newly manufactured is not exactly environmentally friendly.
		
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Aren't all boilers installed from a certain date required to be able to run off gas or hydrogen so the supply could be changed remotely?

On the top of fuel buying north circular petrol station still out of fuel


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## Mudball (Oct 9, 2021)

Diesel ahoy…

Sat morning, was dropping off son for footy training. Very foggy down here so hardly a car on the road. Decided to try my luck .. bingo.. no queue, plenty of fuel .. in and out in 5 mins.  

However OAP in front filled his car and then his can.  He then lifted his can and put it in the boot next to the other can… why? Haven’t we learnt that petrol is not going out of fashion


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## Bratty (Oct 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Diesel ahoy…

Sat morning, was dropping off son for footy training. Very foggy down here so hardly a car on the road. Decided to try my luck .. bingo.. no queue, plenty of fuel .. in and out in 5 mins. 

However OAP in front filled his car and then his can.  He then lifted his can and put it in the boot next to the other can… why? Haven’t we learnt that petrol is not going out of fashion
		
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You think that's madness, a mate of mine saw an old lady put £1.69 worth of fuel in her car before paying and driving away. £1.69!!!


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## BiMGuy (Oct 9, 2021)

Bratty said:



			You think that's madness, a mate of mine saw an old lady put £1.69 worth of fuel in her car before paying and driving away. £1.69!!!
		
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I think they went about managing buying the wrong way round. 

Many places had a maximum of £30. They should have made it a minimum of £30, regardless of how much fuel you actually put in.


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## Bratty (Oct 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think they went about managing buying the wrong way round.

Many places had a maximum of £30. They should have made it a minimum of £30, regardless of how much fuel you actually put in.
		
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And that, sir, is exactly right! Great point.


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## Mudball (Oct 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think they went about managing buying the wrong way round. 

Many places had a maximum of £30. They should have made it a minimum of £30, regardless of how much fuel you actually put in.
		
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Diesel and Petrol both above £1.30 today.. only going up..  so not going to get much for 30 quid soon..


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## upsidedown (Oct 9, 2021)

£1.38 to £1.44 in Cornwall this last week


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## Billysboots (Oct 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think they went about managing buying the wrong way round.

Many places had a maximum of £30. They should have made it a minimum of £30, regardless of how much fuel you actually put in.
		
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Spot on. It was the splash and dash refuelling which really fuelled (pun intended) the crisis.


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## bobmac (Oct 9, 2021)

Mudball said:



			so not going to get much for 30 quid soon..
		
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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 9, 2021)

Hope you are all stocking up on the candles, calor gas, charcoal and camping cookers needed to get us through this winter.
Checked all mine last week., essential for rural living Scots.


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## Kellfire (Oct 9, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think they went about managing buying the wrong way round.

Many places had a maximum of £30. They should have made it a minimum of £30, regardless of how much fuel you actually put in.
		
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Aye the petrochemical giants definitely need that extra money. 😂


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## larmen (Oct 10, 2021)

Is it still panic buying or can we fill up guilt free now?

Just rolled onto the forecourt, put £38 from just under half full to full. At £1.38 it want that much, but on the way out we passed an Esso that wanted £1.43.

Got a bit of a shock when the pump cut out at under £2, somehow I didn’t find the sweet spot for a steady fill rate. It used to be to just stuck the nozzle in and pull full trigger, but somehow that didn’t work.


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## IanM (Oct 10, 2021)

Kellfire said:



			Aye the petrochemical giants definitely need that extra money. 😂
		
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Would probably have little impact in total sales, but would discourage the behaviour that caused the problem


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## Mudball (Oct 10, 2021)

Just saw a news report that there is a oncoming shortage of mid-wives in the country.. I might take a print out of it and try if we can make a panic baby tonight …


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## larmen (Oct 10, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Just saw a news report that there is a oncoming shortage of mid-wives in the country.. I might take a print out of it and try if we can make a panic baby tonight …
		
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I don’t think it’s necessary. Any vet can deliver a calf, ah baby, as well.


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## DaveR (Oct 10, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I think they went about managing buying the wrong way round.

Many places had a maximum of £30. They should have made it a minimum of £30, regardless of how much fuel you actually put in.
		
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Can't see that being legally enforceable but it would certainly resolve the problem!


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## jim8flog (Oct 10, 2021)

Robster59 said:



			In reality, you can say that people have been driving around in a bomb for decades.  Petrol is highly flammable and will ignite easily.  You can see this by the number of vehicle fires there have been. The modern fuel cell vehicles are totally different from the days of the airships.  Our company would not put its name against anything that was going to be dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

 Being pedantic petrol is not not highly flammable it is the petrol vapour that is- so a half full tank has a lot more vapour than a full one.


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## Imurg (Oct 10, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			Being pedantic petrol is not not highly flammable it is the petrol vapour that is- so a half full tank has a lot more vapour than a full one.
		
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So filling the tank is safer...must outweigh the extra cost to the mpg...


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## Robster59 (Oct 10, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			Being pedantic petrol is not not highly flammable it is the petrol vapour that is- so a half full tank has a lot more vapour than a full one.
		
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True, but when in the open the petrol will release the fumes that will ignite. It only takes a spark in and engine. Or one match on a tray of petrol to ignite it.


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## Leftie (Oct 10, 2021)

Usual price in our area is about 134.9 and, surprisingly that's what I paid at a BP garage on Friday (BP are usually 1 or 2 p more).  Drove past my local garage where I usually fill up this morning, 2 cars on forecourt.  147.9   They won't be getting my custom again any time soon.


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## harpo_72 (Oct 11, 2021)

I took the opportunity to fill up my car as I have a drive down to the airport and a few trips in between. 
£1.41/ltr.. I cannot see me wanting to commute any time soon !! 
I wonder if they jack up business rates for electricity/gas etc we will see more working from home? Or will we see cost cutting exercises that involve job cuts?


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## Mudball (Oct 11, 2021)

Heard about the concept of an 'inverse menu' for the first time..  Saw it on twitter, but havent seen in the wild so far.  Not sure what point it achieves if i get given one of these in the pun


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## fundy (Oct 11, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Heard about the concept of an 'inverse menu' for the first time..  Saw it on twitter, but havent seen in the wild so far.  Not sure what point it achieves if i get given one of these in the pun





Click to expand...


relevance to the thread?

more bullshit propaganda?

youre getting worse than SILH and thats saying something


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 11, 2021)

Certainly seems to be easing in the London area

Thursday working in West London (Twickenham / Brentford area) no stations open at all
Friday, driving to H4H, no stations open at all

Today, drove to Banstead, Petrol stations open, no queues, 
Aylesbury, the 3 I drove past this evening were all open and no queues


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## chellie (Oct 11, 2021)

No fuel at the station around the corner from us this am.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 11, 2021)

Absolutely normal here and managed to fill up with unleaded for £1.33.9 at Sainsbury's in Cheltenham.


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## D-S (Oct 11, 2021)

No issues around here since last week, if anything filling stations quieter than usual as I assume stocks have moved from refineries to individuals tanks.

Oh and by the way the supermarket shelves seem pretty full too.


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## larmen (Oct 11, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Certainly seems to be easing in the London area

Thursday working in West London (Twickenham / Brentford area) no stations open at all
Friday, driving to H4H, no stations open at all

Today, drove to Banstead, Petrol stations open, no queues,
Aylesbury, the 3 I drove past this evening were all open and no queues
		
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Twickenham Tesco behind the rugby stadium is supposed to be the secret station here.
I filled up a little west of Osterley when passing by on Sunday, we are getting back to normal, for the time being.


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## Mudball (Oct 11, 2021)

No queues around here..  all cars have sufficient fuel, so not bothered. Will visit when they get done to quarters..


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## Fade and Die (Oct 12, 2021)

All stations around here are fully open, did anyone see The Army doing any deliveries or was it just hype put out to make it seem like the government were responding to the “crisis”?


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## Slime (Oct 12, 2021)

Nothing to see here.


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## Orikoru (Oct 12, 2021)

Last night I saw my local station forecourt open, with petrol, for the first time in about two weeks! Busy but no queue either.

On Sunday I did see three stations all sold out, but I'm guessing that's end of the weekend when they probably didn't get deliveries until the Monday.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 12, 2021)

Walked past my local filling station on my way home from the gym today. Had diesel, unleaded 95ron, and no queue. No 99ron though. Just hope it's still the same by the time I need to put some more in (which will be in about a fortnight).


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## Robster59 (Oct 12, 2021)

It's been fine for supply here for a while now, but prices vary.  Petrol can be anywhere between £1.339 per litre at supermarkets to £1.429 per litre at the local BP.


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## Dando (Oct 12, 2021)

backwoodsman said:



			Walked past my local filling station on my way home from the gym today. Had diesel, unleaded 95ron, and no queue. No 99ron though. Just hope it's still the same by the time I need to put some more in (which will be in about a fortnight).
		
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what is this "gym" you speak of?


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## Imurg (Oct 12, 2021)

It's almost like someone just flicked a switch..
One day - queues, next day - back to normal...


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## backwoodsman (Oct 12, 2021)

Dando said:



			what is this "gym" you speak of?



Click to expand...

I'm told its a place of magic that can make pounds disappear.  They're certainly disappearing from my bank account if not from the waistline.


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## CliveW (Oct 12, 2021)

I have just been speaking to our coalman and he is expecting a shortage of coal this winter!  I've got my order in now.


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## fundy (Oct 12, 2021)

fuel that panic lol


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## IanM (Oct 12, 2021)

The sheep will be bleating.


CliveW said:



			I have just been speaking to our coalman and he is expecting a shortage of coal this winter!  I've got my order in now.
		
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See, it works.  There's another sale.


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## CliveW (Oct 12, 2021)

IanM said:



			The sheep will be bleating.


See, it works.  There's another sale.
		
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???

Sorry, but that's lost on me


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 12, 2021)

Came down the M6 yesterday and on The a service Station it was 159.9 per litre. Needed around 50 litres which would have cost me around £14 more if I had filled up.

Who fills up there and why so expensive? Surely their overheads/rent cannot be so high and elasticity of demand should kick in. Any of you more knowledgeable care to explain please?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 12, 2021)

3offTheTee said:



			Came down the M6 yesterday and on The a service Station it was 159.9 per litre. Needed around 50 litres which would have cost me around £14 more if I had filled up.

Who fills up there and why so expensive? Surely their overheads/rent cannot be so high and elasticity of demand should kick in. Any of you more knowledgeable care to explain please?
		
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I can only imagine it is people running on vapour, and so desperate, and company car drivers who can claim it back on expenses and so don't care. Like you, it staggers me that they can be 20p a litre more, it's offensively high.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 12, 2021)

CliveW said:



			I have just been speaking to our coalman and he is expecting a shortage of coal this winter!  I've got my order in now.
		
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It wouldn't surprise me at all tho tbh. Considering the cable with France that supplies electric had a fire and won't be fully operational until march they have had to turn on the mothballed coal power stations (increasing the wholesale price of electric from like 1.5p to 7p pkwh) and prob stealing a lot of the coal


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## drdel (Oct 12, 2021)

Perhaps he's also selling 'red herrings' as he drums up more business...


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## Mudball (Oct 12, 2021)

CliveW said:



			I have just been speaking to our coalman and he is expecting a shortage of coal this winter!  I've got my order in now.
		
Click to expand...

If he can get it to India, then he will make a killing..  apparently power plants being shut down due to lack of coal.


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## IanM (Oct 12, 2021)

Mudball said:



			If he can get it to India, then he will make a killing..  apparently power plants being shut down due to lack of coal.
		
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Missed that.  When did India leave the EU?


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## Old Skier (Oct 12, 2021)

IanM said:



			Missed that.  When did India leave the EU? 

Click to expand...

When Australia joined the Eurovision Song Contest.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 13, 2021)

Mudball said:



			If he can get it to India, then he will make a killing..  apparently power plants being shut down due to lack of coal.
		
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Have the miners in Australia all gone back to Derbyshire?


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## Piece (Oct 13, 2021)

Back to normal here. I guess the Brexit issues blamed for this have been solved in 10 days.


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## Orikoru (Oct 14, 2021)

My most local station has sold out again (has diesel only remaining). I went to another nearby station though and got in straight away, no queues. However, as I said in random irritations, whoever was there before me only bought £6 worth of petrol so I guess people are still panicking. 🤦🏻‍♂️


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## Mudball (Oct 14, 2021)

Patch availability here too.. but madness seems to have subsided. So people seem to be working around it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 14, 2021)

Piece said:



			Back to normal here. I guess the Brexit issues blamed for this have been solved in 10 days. 

Click to expand...

I doubt it. All that has happened is that the irregular/panic buying has stopped. The shortage of tanker and HGV drivers, that we all know about now, will not have been sorted in 10 days.  Seems like some of the UKs JIT supply chains are not very resilient and, as a result of permanently operating close to tipping point, are subject to failure given relatively small changes in supply or demand.


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## Beezerk (Oct 14, 2021)

Mate is a hgv driver, he hasn’t had a job the last two days due to them being over staffed 😂


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My most local station has sold out again (has diesel only remaining). I went to another nearby station though and got in straight away, no queues. However, as I said in random irritations, whoever was there before me only bought £6 worth of petrol so I guess people are still panicking. 🤦🏻‍♂️
		
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Could be just a groundsman / gardener filling his Jerry for the mower!
Woman in front of us yesterday pulled up by the pump and didn’t get any fuel she just went into the shop for some milk.
There is a massive car park on the site ( Tesco ) 
A few people waiting behind us let  her know what they thought.


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## Mudball (Oct 14, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			Could be just a groundsman / gardener filling his Jerry for the mower!
Woman in front of us yesterday pulled up by the pump and didn’t get any fuel she just went into the shop for some milk.
There is a massive car park on the site ( Tesco )
A few people waiting behind us let  her know what they thought.
		
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Let me guess..  she driving a BMW or an Audi..


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 14, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Let me guess..  she driving a BMW or an Audi..
		
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No a beat up old Fiesta.
The indicators worked though ,she indicated when pulling away.


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## upsidedown (Oct 14, 2021)

Filled up at local Esso today with £91 😮 and noticed on way home BP garage had no fuel and not displaying prices either


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## BiMGuy (Oct 14, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Let me guess..  she driving a BMW or an Audi..
		
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It's usually some old dear driving a metallic blue rinse Honda Jazz round here.


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## IanM (Oct 15, 2021)

Donna’s taking no chances.  Cheesy Footballs for Christmas are on this weeks Tesco order. 

Remember when every news item was about dangerous dogs 🐕


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## Mudball (Oct 15, 2021)

I am getting some Harry Potter magic wands... i am told they will be disappearing from shelves soon


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## Mudball (Oct 16, 2021)

Our local counsellor sent this in response to lack of garden waste collection … 



There is no green bin collection this week. Our reduced winter service plan is aiming for one more collection before Christmas, probably in November, one more in late January, prior to, fingers crossed, the service restarting properly late spring. We will be giving sufficient notice to residents when a collection will occur.

At the moment, a potential impact is whether there will be sufficient gritting drivers available this winter. If not, the green waste may be sacrificed to help out there. That's a logical thing to do as without gritted roads, we can't get any bins lorries (black, blue, green or food) out safely.

On a positive note, there are almost double digit trainees going through the intensive driving academy which does give us some confidence that next spring we'll get it back to normal.


—- 
Hopefully it will all be fine soon


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## 3offTheTee (Oct 16, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Our local counsellor sent this in response to lack of garden waste collection …



There is no green bin collection this week. Our reduced winter service plan is aiming for one more collection before Christmas, probably in November, one more in late January, prior to, fingers crossed, the service restarting properly late spring. We will be giving sufficient notice to residents when a collection will occur.

At the moment, a potential impact is whether there will be sufficient gritting drivers available this winter. If not, the green waste may be sacrificed to help out there. That's a logical thing to do as without gritted roads, we can't get any bins lorries (black, blue, green or food) out safely.

On a positive note, there are almost double digit trainees going through the intensive driving academy which does give us some confidence that next spring we'll get it back to normal.


—-
Hopefully it will all be fine soon
		
Click to expand...

Starting  late Spring which means to me around the beginning of June. Unless we have sub Artic climate until then your lawn should hve plenty of growth. Added to that there seems little logical thought


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## Pants (Oct 16, 2021)

Mudball said:



			On a positive note, there are almost double digit trainees going through the intensive driving academy
		
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Does that mean that they are almost putting two fingers up or that they have 8 or 9 trainees


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## road2ruin (Oct 16, 2021)

Mudball said:



			Our local counsellor sent this in response to lack of garden waste collection …



There is no green bin collection this week. Our reduced winter service plan is aiming for one more collection before Christmas, probably in November, one more in late January, prior to, fingers crossed, the service restarting properly late spring. We will be giving sufficient notice to residents when a collection will occur.

At the moment, a potential impact is whether there will be sufficient gritting drivers available this winter. If not, the green waste may be sacrificed to help out there. That's a logical thing to do as without gritted roads, we can't get any bins lorries (black, blue, green or food) out safely.

On a positive note, there are almost double digit trainees going through the intensive driving academy which does give us some confidence that next spring we'll get it back to normal.


—-
Hopefully it will all be fine soon
		
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Our garden bins haven’t been emptied since the beginning of August. They’ve arranged a one of collection on Monday to empty the bins. I’m hoping their trucks are up to the job as our bin (as I suspect most are) weighs a ton!!


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## SocketRocket (Oct 17, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Our garden bins haven’t been emptied since the beginning of August. They’ve arranged a one of collection on Monday to empty the bins. I’m hoping their trucks are up to the job as our bin (as I suspect most are) weighs a ton!!
		
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Do you have a local council tip?


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## road2ruin (Oct 17, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you have a local council tip?
		
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Yep but the damage was done from weeks of telling us it was a suspension of a week or two and so we all carried on using our garden bins as normal. Was after about 6 weeks that they came out and said that actually they were suspending the service indefinitely. By that point everyone's garden bins had been full up for weeks and so were just left to sit. They were pretty rotten so no one particularly fancied putting it into cars so it's just been left. The council finally bowed to pressure given their lack of effort and they agreed a single collection to get everyone sorted. Going forward we'll all have to use the tip however at least we know that and won't be using our garden bins until the service is resumed.


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## Mudball (Oct 17, 2021)

road2ruin said:



			Yep but the damage was done from weeks of telling us it was a suspension of a week or two and so we all carried on using our garden bins as normal. Was after about 6 weeks that they came out and said that actually they were suspending the service indefinitely. By that point everyone's garden bins had been full up for weeks and so were just left to sit. They were pretty rotten so no one particularly fancied putting it into cars so it's just been left. The council finally bowed to pressure given their lack of effort and they agreed a single collection to get everyone sorted. Going forward we'll all have to use the tip however at least we know that and won't be using our garden bins until the service is resumed.
		
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Same around here.. the privilege after paying separately for Garden waste collection. 


In our neighbourhood forum, someone organised a private company to pick up.. 10 quid per bin.. I am assuming it was legally disposed rather than flytipped somewhere


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## road2ruin (Oct 17, 2021)

Mudball said:



			In our neighbourhood forum, someone organised a private company to pick up.. 10 quid per bin.. I am assuming it was legally disposed rather than flytipped somewhere
		
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Same in our area, I was just about to press the button when the council agreed to the one off collection.


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## fundy (Oct 19, 2021)

Well we have heating for a while now at least, oil delivered


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## bobmac (Oct 19, 2021)

fundy said:



			Well we have heating for a while now at least, oil delivered 

Click to expand...

You can go back to wearing your onesie again


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## SocketRocket (Oct 24, 2021)

Most petrol stations around here are charging around £1.42.99 per litre, I filled up at Sainsbury's in Cheltenham for £1.36.99.  I'm sure there's some opportunistic profiteering going on at the moment.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Most petrol stations around here are charging around £1.42.99 per litre, I filled up at Sainsbury's in Cheltenham for £1.36.99.  I'm sure there's some opportunistic profiteering going on at the moment.
		
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Ive now seen diesel at £1.51 a litre , with most at or around £1.48.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 24, 2021)

There was a guy on the TV on Friday or Saturday from the petrol retailers association. He pointed out that the actual sales price of petrol at the moment is around 60p per litre. The rest is duty and vat. I think we forget just how great a proportion of the price we pay goes to the Treasury.


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## CliveW (Oct 24, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There was a guy on the TV on Friday or Saturday from the petrol retailers association. He pointed out that the actual sales price of petrol at the moment is around 60p per litre. The rest is duty and vat. I think we forget just how great a proportion of the price we pay goes to the Treasury.
		
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What is really galling is the fact we are paying VAT on the fuel duty which is tax on the tax!!!


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## larmen (Oct 24, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Most petrol stations around here are charging around £1.42.99 per litre, I filled up at Sainsbury's in Cheltenham for £1.36.99.  I'm sure there's some opportunistic profiteering going on at the moment.
		
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I am half empty and start to monitor a bit. Our Tesco is at 138 for petrol, 7p cheaper than the BP I am passing on the way there.

We went to Bockets Farm and every station we passed was 140 or up.
I have seen Diesel for 152 somewhere.

The good thing is we have full availability again, I guess.


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## IanM (Oct 24, 2021)

18 months of lockdowns... demand slumped and falling prices... 

Anyone know how to drive up demand and price?   

Am I getting cynical in my old age?


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2021)

IanM said:



			18 months of lockdowns... demand slumped and falling prices...

Anyone know how to drive up demand and price?   

Am I getting cynical in my old age?
		
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It's not helped by oil being priced in Dollars, and rising in price, and the Pound is weak against the Dollar


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## D-S (Oct 24, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It's not helped by oil being priced in Dollars, and rising in price, and the Pound is weak against the Dollar
		
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Not unusually weak
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cx250jmk4e7t/pound-sterling-gbp


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## SocketRocket (Oct 24, 2021)

larmen said:



			I am half empty and start to monitor a bit. Our Tesco is at 138 for petrol, 7p cheaper than the BP I am passing on the way there.

We went to Bockets Farm and every station we passed was 140 or up.
I have seen Diesel for 152 somewhere.

The good thing is we have full availability again, I guess.
		
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Do you mean Becket's farm at Withal?   If so, the station at the top of Kings Heath always tends to be the cheapest in the area.


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## larmen (Oct 24, 2021)

Some place just south of Leatherhead.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 24, 2021)

larmen said:



			Some place just south of Leatherhead.
		
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Oh, sorry, wrong place.


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 24, 2021)

So, when the panic buying was kicking off we were bring told that there was no need to panic as we had 3 months worth of fuel in stock, just waiting to be delivered.

That fuel was purchased months ago at prices set months ago, 

So why is fuel now being sold at hugely inflated prices, when the reality is that the fuel bought at the new higher prices, won’t actually hit the pumps for a couple of months.

Somebody is making a shedload of cash from this, but in my opinion, it needs regulating as the motorist is getting clobbered big time …again


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## Imurg (Oct 24, 2021)

Gotta pay for furlough somehow....


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## Billysboots (Oct 24, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			So, when the panic buying was kicking off we were bring told that there was no need to panic as we had 3 months worth of fuel in stock, just waiting to be delivered.

That fuel was purchased months ago at prices set months ago,

So why is fuel now being sold at hugely inflated prices, when the reality is that the fuel bought at the new higher prices, won’t actually hit the pumps for a couple of months.

Somebody is making a shedload of cash from this, but in my opinion, it needs regulating as the motorist is getting clobbered big time …again
		
Click to expand...

I don’t think this is anything new, though. I remember many years ago driving past my local garage on my way to work, and then again on the way home, and in between the price of diesel had increased by 3p a litre. After I had refuelled I asked the cashier what time they had taken a new delivery and she said they hadn’t for nearly a week. So a different price was being charged for the same consignment of fuel.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 24, 2021)

PhilTheFragger said:



			So, when the panic buying was kicking off we were bring told that there was no need to panic as we had 3 months worth of fuel in stock, just waiting to be delivered.

That fuel was purchased months ago at prices set months ago,

So why is fuel now being sold at hugely inflated prices, when the reality is that the fuel bought at the new higher prices, won’t actually hit the pumps for a couple of months.

Somebody is making a shedload of cash from this, but in my opinion,* it needs regulating as the motorist is getting clobbered big time …again*

Click to expand...

As VAT is charged then that would mean the people regulating it would be regulating against more money going into their coffers; more chance of turkeys voting for Christmas Phil.


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## HeftyHacker (Oct 25, 2021)

Billysboots said:



			I don’t think this is anything new, though. I remember many years ago driving past my local garage on my way to work, and then again on the way home, and in between the price of diesel had increased by 3p a litre. After I had refuelled I asked the cashier what time they had taken a new delivery and she said they hadn’t for nearly a week. So a different price was being charged for the same consignment of fuel.
		
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Without knowing much about the industry, I've no doubt that there will be some profiteering going on but i imagine that they have to pay for a restock so if the wholesale price of future stock increases they will have to pass that on in their current stock to afford to pay for it.

I guess the control if the wholesale price goes down is the element of competition. As soon as one place reduces their prices the rest are kind of forced to follow suit.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 25, 2021)

HeftyHacker said:



			Without knowing much about the industry, I've no doubt that there will be some profiteering going on but i imagine that they have to pay for a restock so if the wholesale price of future stock increases they will have to pass that on in their current stock to afford to pay for it.

I guess the control if the wholesale price goes down is the element of competition. As soon as one place reduces their prices the rest are kind of forced to follow suit.
		
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I'm my area some are selling at 9p a litre less than others, I accept that they are at will to charge what they like but is the cheaper outlet making a loss or is the dearer profiteering.


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## Dando (Oct 25, 2021)

Prices in the US are outrageous


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2021)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59034854

interesting article on the BBC explaining the rise in price rather than just greed from the retailers.. lots of it people just will never see as when it goes up say 5p its easy just to blame the retailer when they are making just under 9p a litre (based on 142.9 a litre )


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## SocketRocket (Oct 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59034854

interesting article on the BBC explaining the rise in price rather than just greed from the retailers.. lots of it people just will never see as when it goes up say 5p its easy just to blame the retailer when they are making just under 9p a litre (based on 142.9 a litre )
		
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So how can one sell it 9p cheaper than others in the area. Are they selling at a loss?


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## Beedee (Oct 26, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			So how can one sell it 9p cheaper than others in the area. Are they selling at a loss?
		
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Are they attached to a supermarket?  Fuel has always been a loss leader to get punters in. 

Are they part of a huge multi-national?  Much bigger buying power, benefits of scale, and chance to reduce the competition compared to small independents.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			So how can one sell it 9p cheaper than others in the area. Are they selling at a loss?
		
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do we know what stock it is? Im not sure its that article that i posted ill check in a min but one cause of the rise they said was the e10 fuel the ethonol is more expensive and more of it so thats some of the cost, could be e5 fuel so cheaper stock

plus 9p at the pump how much is that actually off the cost price.. i mean VAT is part of it..


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## Imurg (Oct 26, 2021)

Most of the diesel around here is between 1.44 and 1.47...apart from one garage just out of town..1.51...was quiet when I drove past twice yesterday...wonder why


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## pauljames87 (Oct 26, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Most of the diesel around here is between 1.44 and 1.47...apart from one garage just out of town..1.51...was quiet when I drove past twice yesterday...wonder why

Click to expand...

out of the woods now but some retailers were saying they put their prices high to deter people from going mad and queuing at them. thats what my father in law said. he repairs the pumps dunno how true that is but thats what he was told


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 26, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			out of the woods now but some retailers were saying they put their prices high to deter people from going mad and queuing at them. thats what my father in law said. he repairs the pumps dunno how true that is but thats what he was told
		
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Most pricing with fuel is whatever the local area will take. I know which towns will be more expensive near to me, which will be cheaper. Even within those towns I know which will be 1p more or 1p less. I'm sure it is the same for most people. We have a Morrisons supermarket in the town where I live and one where I work. The fuel in the one where I live is always 1-2p more than where I work, despite it being closer to the fuel terminal that they are both supplied from.

At some point in all of this one of the supermarkets will use fuel as part of a mini price war and the prices across the board will start to drop again. We are just waiting at the moment to see who will go down that road first of all.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 26, 2021)

Beedee said:



			Are they attached to a supermarket?  Fuel has always been a loss leader to get punters in. 

Are they part of a huge multi-national?  Much bigger buying power, benefits of scale, and chance to reduce the competition compared to small independents.
		
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Sainsbury's fuel in our area us always considerably cheaper than other outlets, the petrol station is close to but not directly attached to the Supermarket. They are always extremely busy and quite a big station, 9p a litre is quite a saving and with their turnover they would be losing a lot of money if it was a loss leader.  It's definitely E10.


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## GreiginFife (Oct 26, 2021)

Much will be economies of scale. I doubt supermarkets will be making a loss but comparing a big supermarket chain with a franchised BP is assuming all things are equal across the supply chain. 

But even assuming they are, small garage charges 5p more and sells 1000 litres, supermarket sells 10000 litres and still makes more money.


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## IainP (Oct 28, 2021)

China's turn...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59059093


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