# World Cup Russia 2018



## 3offTheTee (May 7, 2018)

Just over a month before it starts so here we go:

Who should be in The England Team? 

England should get out of their Group but how far will they go? Semi Final is above expectations!

Do you know anybody that is going and after France would you consider going?


Should be an interesting couple of months.


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## Crazyface (May 7, 2018)

I wouldn't pick most to play in a pub team. But hey they've got a real chance. There's nowt out there to be scared of, there all as poor as each other, with a few teams possessing SOME class. But if they don't turn up then they'll be out. So who knows. Could be another semi final run. Hoo hoo hoo hoo hooo hoo! Get at 'em !!!!


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## Beezerk (May 7, 2018)

I think 1/4â€™s would flatter us to be honest, weâ€™ll probably scrape through the group and then lose a heroic penalty shootout.
We have a couple of decent individuals in the team, but the team as a whole is poor, we seem to lack any sort of cohesion and understanding in how we play.
Defence worries me massively and we lack someone to unlock other teams ie Salah, Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, that really top class attacking midfielder.


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## Rooter (May 7, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			we lack someone to unlock other teams ie Salah, Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, that really top class attacking midfielder.
		
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Errr Jordan Henderson!


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## Hacker Khan (May 7, 2018)

We've probably got to the stage now where are expectations are so low we can meet them. People are finally wising up that the quality of the premiership is not replicated in the national team.  If we get out of the group I'd say it's a decent achievement nowadays. 

I'm quite impressed with what I've seen of Southgate in that he seems to play players in positions they are comfortable in and systems we can play.  Those systems may well be a bit out of date, but at least we should make a decent fist of it. You never know, no one seems able to be defend at club level any more so if we have a decent defence that should be a start.


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## Old Skier (May 7, 2018)

Semi finals at least &#128525;


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## Doon frae Troon (May 7, 2018)

Good young manager and some decent young players breaking through, I think they will play much better than many think.
IMO the only real weakness in the team are the men between the sticks.


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## Fish (May 7, 2018)

Forget on the pitch, I hope weâ€™ve been training in the woods one armed combat and survival skills so we can batter them ruskies off the pitch ðŸ˜œ


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## Jensen (May 7, 2018)

Would I consider going.....no chance, and that's no because of the football. 
Far too dangerous and it won't improve with comrade Putin at the helm,


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## Kellfire (May 7, 2018)

If England end up playing the likes of Hart, Smalling, Henderson, Oxlaide-Chanberlain and Milner then it will be hilarious watching such bog standard footballers fail.


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## Beezerk (May 7, 2018)

Rooter said:



			Errr Jordan Henderson!
		
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Yeah forgot about him, reminds me of Maradona aged 57 &#128514;


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## User62651 (May 8, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			If England end up playing the likes of Hart, Smalling, Henderson, *Oxlaide-Chanberlain* and Milner then it will be hilarious watching such bog standard footballers fail.
		
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Think the Ox is crocked, shame as he's had a good season. Keep hearing a view that J Shelvey should go as a more skilled midfielder in amongst some workhorses like Dier and Henderson? Will he go?


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## nickjdavis (May 8, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Think the Ox is crocked, shame as he's had a good season. Keep hearing a view that J Shelvey should go as a more skilled midfielder in amongst some workhorses like Dier and Henderson? Will he go?
		
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Shelvey should be nowhere near the England team. Too inconsistent (actually....having said that....he'd fit in quite well) and a poor temperament.

and I say that as a Newcastle supporter.


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## 3offTheTee (May 9, 2018)

Who would consider going to Russia? Not me as I value my life!


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## Old Skier (May 9, 2018)

3offTheTee said:



			Who would consider going to Russia? Not me as I value my life!
		
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Been a few times, great people and plenty to see. I wonder how many supporters from other countries say exactly the same thing about coming to the U.K. where our football thugs are still a major source of embarrassment.

You just have to see the mayhem caused by a few hundred England yobs in Amsterdam the other month.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Been a few times, great people and plenty to see. I wonder how many supporters from other countries say exactly the same thing about coming to the U.K. where our football thugs are still a major source of embarrassment.

You just have to see the mayhem caused by a few hundred England yobs in Amsterdam the other month.
		
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Plenty come to the uk and love it when going as a tourist - where you in Russia as a tourist or to watch football because there is a world of difference 

How much trouble is there around grounds in the UK these days ? Russia has issues constantly especially from visiting fans , seen they have just been punished once again 

It was bad enough with them in 2016 at the Euros - it could be a blood bath in Russia especially if your skin is the wrong colour for them

As for England chances 

All depends on how the manager sets up his players - losing Ox was a big blow but this would be a line up that could get them into Quarters and then who knows

Pickford/Butland

Walker
Stones 
Dier
Rose

Henderson
Ali
Lallana ( if fit )/Lingard

Sterling 
Kane
Vardy/Rashford


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## User62651 (May 9, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Plenty come to the uk and love it when going as a tourist - where you in Russia as a tourist or to watch football because there is a world of difference 

How much trouble is there around grounds in the UK these days ? Russia has issues constantly especially from visiting fans , seen they have just been punished once again 

It was bad enough with them in 2016 at the Euros - it could be a blood bath in Russia especially if your skin is the wrong colour for them

As for England chances 

All depends on how the manager sets up his players - losing Ox was a big blow but this would be a line up that could get them into Quarters and then who knows

Pickford/Butland

Walker
Stones 
Dier
Rose

Henderson
Ali
Lallana ( if fit )/Lingard

Sterling 
Kane
Vardy/Rashford
		
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You playing Dier at centre half? Cahill might be better there and put Dier in ahead of Lallana in midfield, use Lallana as a sub? Otherwise tend to agree.


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## Crazyface (May 9, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Semi finals at least &#128525;
		
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Ignore him,he's German LOL


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## Crazyface (May 9, 2018)

Pickford/Butland

Walker
Dier
Rose

Fast midfield player - Actually Rashford would do
Milner (defensive do not advance any more than 1o meters past 1/2 way line)
Ali
Lallana ( if fit )/Lingard

Sterling
Kane
Vardy

Right lads, just attack, English football style, and to hell with the consequences!


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## Beezerk (May 15, 2018)

Here's hoping this is true...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44132401


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## HomerJSimpson (May 15, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Here's hoping this is true...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44132401

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The Hart story is doing the rounds on Sky Sports too so likely there is truth in it. Not sure who the final squad will be but I'll still watch with my usual blind optimism.


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## chrisd (May 16, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'll still watch with my usual blind optimism.
		
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Me too, but I believe the inter club rivalry that has blighted previous tournaments has gone, which should help. It's just the inexperience of the players and lack of centre backs and goal keeper of note that worries me.


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## Slab (May 16, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As for England chances 

All depends on how the manager sets up his players - losing Ox was a big blow but this would be a line up that could get them into Quarters and then who knows

Pickford/Butland

Walker
Stones 
Dier
Rose

Henderson
Ali
Lallana ( if fit )/Lingard

Sterling 
Kane
Vardy/Rashford
		
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Its noticeable to me (with only a passing interest in English football) there's a distinct lack of household names in that list compared to previous World cups (with the exception of the forwards it could be a list of web.com golfers for all I know) although I'm sure they're all millionaires I'm probably going to recognize far more EPL players in several of the other nations line-ups


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## PieMan (May 16, 2018)

Let's face it, England getting out the group can be classed as a successful campaign! Doubt they'll go any further than that but we'll see.

Already a positive start though in jettisoning Hart and Wilshere.

If they all gel then quite fancy Belgium to win it.

But let's face it, there's about 5 or 6 teams out there that will be far easier on the eye than England unfortunately.


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## ColchesterFC (May 16, 2018)

Gareth Southgate says that he has picked a squad that he believes can win the World Cup in Russia this summer. 

Germany.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 16, 2018)

Interesting article in the Saturday Times (or Sunday Times) of last week - interview with Rio Ferdinand in which he said that club rivalries between players had wrecked the prospects of success of England's 'golden generation'


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## User62651 (May 16, 2018)

FA says no official or unofficial team song this year, why not? Tradition isn't it?


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## Pathetic Shark (May 16, 2018)

Which means we will do badly.  Our last two good performances in big events co-incided with a tremendous song.

1990 - World in Motion -   reached semi-finals.
1996 - Football's coming home - reached sem-finals.


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## Rooter (May 16, 2018)

Pathetic Shark said:



			Which means we will do badly.  Our last two good performances in big events co-incided with a tremendous song.

1990 - World in Motion -   reached semi-finals.
1996 - Football's coming home - reached sem-finals.
		
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I am now rapping the John Barnes bit in my head! Cheers!


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2018)

Due to be announced this afternoon by Southgate. But this would be my squad, with the knowledge that Hart and Wilshere won't be going:

Pickford, Butland, Pope
Walker, Trippier, Stones, Maguire, Tarkowski, Jones, Rose, Young
Dier, Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Dele, Lallana, Lingard, Sterling
Kane, Vardy, Rashford, Welbeck

Plus one other. God knows who that will be. I had thought he would take Wilshere, after Ox was ruled out, but presumably has someone else in mind. Could be Delph, he has actually featured for City in the last month or so.


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## PieMan (May 16, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Due to be announced this afternoon by Southgate. But this would be my squad, with the knowledge that Hart and Wilshere won't be going:

Pickford, Butland, Pope
Walker, Trippier, Stones, Maguire, Tarkowski, Jones, Rose, Young
Dier, Henderson, Loftus-Cheek, Dele, Lallana, Lingard, Sterling
Kane, Vardy, Rashford, Welbeck

Plus one other. God knows who that will be. I had thought he would take Wilshere, after Ox was ruled out, but presumably has someone else in mind. Could be Delph, he has actually featured for City in the last month or so.
		
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There's absolutely no-way Smalling and Cahill won't go - those two not going would also have been reported. As a Chelsea fan, I wouldn't take Cahill - been very poor whenever I've seen him play this season.


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## Beezerk (May 16, 2018)

PieMan said:



			There's absolutely no-way Smalling and Cahill won't go - those two not going would also have been reported. As a Chelsea fan, I wouldn't take Cahill - been very poor whenever I've seen him play this season.
		
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Every time Iâ€™ve seen Cahill play recently heâ€™s been at fault for goals.
Weâ€™re lacking quality defenders at the minute (apart from maybe Walker), I see us getting  caught out with â€œsuckerâ€ goals at the WC as per usual.


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## PieMan (May 16, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Every time Iâ€™ve seen Cahill play recently heâ€™s been at fault for goals.
Weâ€™re lacking quality defenders at the minute (apart from maybe Walker), I see us getting  caught out with â€œsuckerâ€ goals at the WC as per usual.
		
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Yes Cahill is a mistake waiting to happen at the moment. Part of that is probably down to the fact he's no longer first choice at Chelsea now - just seems very nervous and uncomfortable when on the ball.

IMHO England significantly lacking in international quality at CB and - Dier apart - in central midfield.


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2018)

PieMan said:



			There's absolutely no-way *Smalling *and Cahill won't go - those two not going would also have been reported. As a Chelsea fan, I wouldn't take Cahill - been very poor whenever I've seen him play this season.
		
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What are you talking about? Before the last friendlies Southgate came out and said he won't be selecting Smalling because he doesn't think he's good enough on the ball, and subsequently left him out of the Holland and Italy games. There is zero chance of him going to the World Cup. 

Cahill probably will be there ahead of Tarkowski, sadly. I was just saying that my preference would be Tarkowski.


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## PieMan (May 16, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			What are you talking about? Before the last friendlies Southgate came out and said he won't be selecting Smalling because he doesn't think he's good enough on the ball, and subsequently left him out of the Holland and Italy games. There is zero chance of him going to the World Cup. 

Cahill probably will be there ahead of Tarkowski, sadly. I was just saying that my preference would be Tarkowski.
		
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Ok I'll bow to your far superior knowledge in these matters. Thank you for the reprimand!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2018)

No Lallana which I think is mistake , a player who can open up defences and gives a bit of creativity which England lack 

But at least Phil Jones is going for comedy value

Butland
Pope
Pickford

Alexander Arnold
Rose
Stones
Trippier
Jones :rofl:
Maguire
Stones
Cahill
Walker
Young

Lingard
Ali
Loftus Cheek
Henderson
Dier
Welbeck :rofl:

Sterling
Vardy
Kane
Rashford


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## Khamelion (May 16, 2018)

The squad is

Alexander-Arnold
Butland
Cahill
Dele
Delph
Dier
Henderson
Jones
Kane
Lingard
Loftus-Cheek
Maguire
Pickford
Pope
Rashford
Rose
Sterling
Stones
Trippier
Vardy
Walker
Welbeck
Young


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## PieMan (May 16, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No Lallana which I think is mistake , a player who can open up defences and gives a bit of creativity which England lack 

But at least Phil Jones is going for comedy value
		
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And Welbeck!! Yes not picking Lallana is a mistake.

Oh well, it's not as if we're going to win it!!!


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## Tashyboy (May 16, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No Lallana which I think is mistake , a player who can open up defences and gives a bit of creativity which England lack 

But at least Phil Jones is going for comedy value

Butland
Pope
Pickford

Alexander Arnold
Rose
Stones
Trippier
Jones :rofl:
Maguire
Stones
Cahill
Walker
Young

Lingard
Ali
Loftus Cheek
Henderson
Dier
Welbeck :rofl:

Sterling
Vardy
Kane
Rashford
		
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Gotta agree with that, think the midfield looks light, very light, would put a smiley at the side of Cahill as well.


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## spongebob59 (May 16, 2018)

[FONT=&quot]Tom Heaton, James Tarkowski, Adam Lallana, Jake Livermore and Lewis Cook named on England standby list [/FONT]


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No Lallana which I think is mistake , a player who can open up defences and gives a bit of creativity which England lack
		
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I think the same. Would have been worth a gamble on Lallana, if he can get fit he has the best technical ability of any of our attackers.

I don't have too many complaints with the squad. I would have had Tarkowski in for Cahill, and Lallana in as mentioned (maybe for Trent or Delph) but that's all really.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 16, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I think the same. Would have been worth a gamble on Lallana, if he can get fit he has the best technical ability of any of our attackers.

I don't have too many complaints with the squad. I would have had Tarkowski in for Cahill, and Lallana in as mentioned (maybe for Trent or Delph) but that's all really.
		
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Why gamble on anyone  sadly heâ€™s a bad season through injury, weâ€™ve slated previous managers for taking players not 100% fit. Fully fit heâ€™d be in the first 11.

Pity Gomez got injured, Iâ€™d of took him instead of Cahill.


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## Rooter (May 16, 2018)

Errr where is James Milner??


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## Lord Tyrion (May 16, 2018)

We have a long history of gambling on injured or just back from injured players at tournaments. Can't think of one example of where it succeeded.

Unlucky for Lallana but not worth the risk.


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## Rooter (May 16, 2018)

Also, why 9 defenders? and so light in midfield? Surely 7 is enough and that allows and extra midfield and forward... Then again, what do i know?


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## Lord Tyrion (May 16, 2018)

Rooter said:



			Also, why 9 defenders? and so light in midfield? Surely 7 is enough and that allows and extra midfield and forward... Then again, what do i know?
		
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Reality is we will play 1 up front so Wellbeck, Rashford and Sterling are classed as strikers but are likely to play wide in a 5 man midfield if picked. I can only really see Kane or Vardy playing as a genuine striker, not at the same time either. Splitting it down into categories is a bit outdated in the modern era.


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## Papas1982 (May 16, 2018)

Rooter said:



			Errr where is James Milner??
		
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Retired......


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## ColchesterFC (May 16, 2018)

Rooter said:



			Also, why 9 defenders? and so light in midfield? Surely 7 is enough and that allows and extra midfield and forward... Then again, what do i know?
		
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I guess Southgate is looking at the option of playing three centre backs with wing backs so having nine defenders gives more possibilities. And as LT says below, if we go with 4 defenders then it's likely to be 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 (becoming 4-5-1 when we don't have the ball) with just one main striker, either Kane or Vardy.


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2018)

Rooter said:



			Errr where is James Milner??
		
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Still retired.


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2018)

Rooter said:



			Also, why 9 defenders? and so light in midfield? Surely 7 is enough and that allows and extra midfield and forward... Then again, what do i know?
		
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Well we know Southgate is going to play 5 at the back. And it's really 8 defenders plus Young and Delph who are utility players. I don't wholly disagree though, as mentioned earlier I would have found a spot for Lallana, as he's a unique player for us if fit.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2018)

Rooter said:



			Also, why 9 defenders? and so light in midfield? Surely 7 is enough and that allows and extra midfield and forward... Then again, what do i know?
		
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He is going for pace and with Henderson and Dier sitting , works well for counter attacking teams but against teams that will sit deep then England lack a player who can unlock a team - Lallana can provide that something different that England always fail take to a tournament, always go with pace and power and it doesnâ€™t work


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## User62651 (May 16, 2018)

Have a feeling Rashford is going to be the England breakout/standout player, well rested this season and something to prove.
The squad generally looks pretty ordinary to me compared to other tournaments, but solid I suppose. Delli Alli needs to find the form of last season and Kane needs rest. Raheem Sterling needs to step up but I dont think he will.
Why on earth is Wellbeck still included?:mmm:


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## Papas1982 (May 16, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is going for pace and with Henderson and Dier sitting , works well for counter attacking teams but against teams that will sit deep then England lack a player who can unlock a team - Lallana can provide that something different that England always fail take to a tournament, always go with pace and power and it doesnâ€™t work
		
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Hes played maybe a dozen games all season!

Im a massive fan of Lallanaâ€™s but in no way should he be in the 23 right now imo. Heâ€™s in the reserves, Iâ€™m Sure if he features in the two friendlies and proves his fitness then a squad rejig will occur. 

At least one change will happen before Russia due to injury. It always does.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			Hes played maybe a dozen games all season!

Im a massive fan of Lallanaâ€™s but in no way should he be in the 23 right now imo. Heâ€™s in the reserves, Iâ€™m Sure if he features in the two friendlies and proves his fitness then a squad rejig will occur. 

At least one change will happen before Russia due to injury. It always does.
		
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He is fit now , thatâ€™s all that matters and if he is fit enough to be a reserve he should be fit enough to be in tbe squad. You look at that squad and there doesnâ€™t seem to be one player who can come on and change a game with something a bit different or pick a pass , the minute Wilshire wasnâ€™t going who whilst is overhyped can pick a pass England are now left with the same old same old - thought Southgate would try something different


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Have a feeling Rashford is going to be the England breakout/standout player, well rested this season and something to prove.
The squad generally looks pretty ordinary to me compared to other tournaments, but solid I suppose. Delli Alli needs to find the form of last season and Kane needs rest. Raheem Sterling needs to step up but I dont think he will.
Why on earth is Wellbeck still included?:mmm:
		
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Dele has actually finally hit form in the last few weeks - 5 goals in March and April. Even Kane finally looked sharp again in the last game at Leicester. So hopefully they both just got their sharpness back in time. 

I actually think Welbeck is a touch underrated. He works very hard, can play left wing or up front, good goal scoring record for England (in fact he is the top scorer in this squad).


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## Papas1982 (May 16, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is fit now , thatâ€™s all that matters and if he is fit enough to be a reserve he should be fit enough to be in tbe squad. You look at that squad and there doesnâ€™t seem to be one player who can come on and change a game with something a bit different or pick a pass , the minute Wilshire wasnâ€™t going who whilst is overhyped can pick a pass England are now left with the same old same old - thought Southgate would try something different
		
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Or maybe Southgate doesnâ€™t think he is fit? Iâ€™ve not seen him starting for Liverpool lately and youâ€™re short of numbers. England have taken punts on unfit players far to often and had egg on their faces. 

Last year he was good enough for england, so weâ€™re hart, Wilshere and Bertrand. This year he hasnâ€™t done anything to warrant a place. You canâ€™t pick someone on memories. So imo he has a chance to earn the spot over the next few weeks.


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## Orikoru (May 16, 2018)

Another question is who will captain the side? Has to be someone who's guaranteed to start so you're down to about 6 options already. For my money it should be Kane, he has the winner's attitude, would lead by example, plus I think the armband would make him raise his game, which as the focal point for our attack is invaluable. 

I have a horrible feeling it might be Henderson though.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 16, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Another question is who will captain the side? Has to be someone who's guaranteed to start so you're down to about 6 options already. For my money it should be Kane, he has the winner's attitude, would lead by example, plus I think the armband would make him raise his game, which as the focal point for our attack is invaluable. 

I have a horrible feeling it might be Henderson though. 

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Who the captain is should be irrelevant - only in England does it get hyped up so much ( another consequence of the Beckham hysteria) , other countries donâ€™t even bother naming one and just give it to the player with the most caps on the day. 

But if itâ€™s Henderson he has shown himself all year how well he can captain a team - does Kane even captain Spurs ? 

Either the way it should be right near the bottom of things to worry about


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 16, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who the captain is should be irrelevant - only in England does it get hyped up so much ( another consequence of the Beckham hysteria) , other countries donâ€™t even bother naming one and just give it to the player with the most caps on the day. 

But if itâ€™s Henderson he has shown himself all year how well he can captain a team - does Kane even captain Spurs ? 

Either the way *it should be right near the bottom of things to worry about*

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England got nothing to worry about other than the safety of England fans.  England are at least participating - and that gives the fans of all the clubs who year in year out have limited expectations of any form of success for their club,  at least they have Negalnd.

I'd make Jamie Vardy skipper  - hang about up front leaving the rest of the team to get on with sorting themselves out


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## virgilvdk (May 16, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I think the same. Would have been worth a gamble on Lallana, if he can get fit he has the best technical ability of any of our attackers.

I don't have too many complaints with the squad. I would have had Tarkowski in for Cahill, and Lallana in as mentioned (maybe for Trent or Delph) but that's all really.
		
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11 Appearances all season, most as a sub. Had he been fit and palying regualry then there is no doubt he'd be in, the same for Wilshire too probably. Leaving him out is the right descision.


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## Papas1982 (May 16, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Another question is who will captain the side? Has to be someone who's guaranteed to start so you're down to about 6 options already. For my money it should be Kane, he has the winner's attitude, would lead by example, plus I think the armband would make him raise his game, which as the focal point for our attack is invaluable. 

I have a horrible feeling it might be Henderson though. 

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I think the captains role has changed somewhat in recent times. I think calling it the beckham effect as some do is a little ott tbh as many players since him have had as much of not more say on their teams running (think Messi at Barca).

the player should be a starter I agree though as itâ€™s still meant to be an honour for the player and calling up someone and handing over to them would be stupid imo. 

Iâ€™d go Kane, quite simply heâ€™s easily our best player and Should do well as long as he doesnâ€™t take corners!


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## Slime (May 16, 2018)

I'd certainly have Lallana and Smalling in the squad in place of Welbeck and Cahill.
United had the second tightest defence this season and Smalling has played more than any other United defender.
Welbeck is just not required, good enough or reliable enough and England are looking thin in midfield ............... not up front.


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## Papas1982 (May 16, 2018)

Slime said:



			I'd certainly have Lallana and Smalling in the squad in place of Welbeck and Cahill.
United had the second tightest defence this season and Smalling has played more than any other United defender.
Welbeck is just not required, good enough or reliable enough and England are looking thin in midfield ............... not up front.
		
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will england play (letâ€™s put this nicely) as pragmatic a style as Utd under Mourinho? Or have a keeper as good as De Gea between the sticks?

As has bee said many a time before..... kleberson won a league and Traore a CL. Doesnâ€™t make em decent.


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## Slime (May 16, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			will england play (letâ€™s put this nicely) as pragmatic a style as Utd under Mourinho? Or have a keeper as good as De Gea between the sticks?

As has bee said many a time before..... kleberson won a league and Traore a CL. Doesnâ€™t make em decent.
		
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What's your point?
You've lost me there, or am I missing an obtuse point?


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## Papas1982 (May 16, 2018)

Slime said:



			What's your point?
You've lost me there, or am I missing an obtuse point?
		
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You're suggesting smalling deserves a place based on UTDs defensive record. Iâ€™m saying that I would say they have that record for a number of reasons, Mourinhoâ€™s tactics and De Geas brilliance being the main two, and that smallings ability (lack of) has little to do with it.


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## MadAdey (May 17, 2018)

Whoever he puts in the starting 11 I just hope he doesn't play some kind of crazy formation. All the teams at the minute are playing a 4-3-3 formation. Rashford and Sterling are use to playing wide in a front 3, like Kane is use to playing the solo role between 2 wide men. Henderson is use to playing the central anchor role in the middle of a midfield 3 and that is what players like Ali are use to also.

BAsically what I'm getting at is play the formation all the players are use to playing in, in the position they train to play in all season. Too often I see the England line up and you have players playing in formations that they are not use to, playing in positions they are not use to. Yes I know people will say that they are professional footballers and should be able to play in any formation they are given. Day in day out these players are trained to play in a certain formation in a certain position, so for once set the team up in a way they already know to play.


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## Kellfire (May 17, 2018)

England will play 3-5-2. The squad basically tells you that.


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## USER1999 (May 17, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Another question is who will captain the side?  For my money it should be Kane, he has the winner's attitude, 

Click to expand...

And he has won what?


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## Orikoru (May 17, 2018)

virgilvdk said:



			11 Appearances all season, most as a sub. Had he been fit and palying regualry then there is no doubt he'd be in, the same for Wilshire too probably. Leaving him out is the right descision.
		
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Clearly fitness is the reason Lallana's not been selected, but I think rather than having Delph who I expect not to play a single minute, I would have had Lallana as the 23rd man; it's a gamble worth taking because if he did actually find some fitness, he offers us something unique that no other player has. He's in the stand-by list, so presumably if an attacker gets injured he will be in - so he's obviously fit enough to go and train with the squad?



MadAdey said:



			Whoever he puts in the starting 11 I just hope he doesn't play some kind of crazy formation. All the teams at the minute are playing a 4-3-3 formation. Rashford and Sterling are use to playing wide in a front 3, like Kane is use to playing the solo role between 2 wide men. Henderson is use to playing the central anchor role in the middle of a midfield 3 and that is what players like Ali are use to also.

BAsically what I'm getting at is play the formation all the players are use to playing in, in the position they train to play in all season. Too often I see the England line up and you have players playing in formations that they are not use to, playing in positions they are not use to. Yes I know people will say that they are professional footballers and should be able to play in any formation they are given. Day in day out these players are trained to play in a certain formation in a certain position, so for once set the team up in a way they already know to play.
		
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Well, we know for sure Southgate will be using the 3-4-2-1 or 3-5-2 with wing backs, as he has in all our recent games. 

The team will be something like this I expect:
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Cahill
Trippier - Dier - Henderson - Rose
Sterling - Dele
Kane​
Depending on opposition he may bring Vardy in for Dele or Sterling. Cahill & Rose might be Jones/Maguire & Young, that depends on Southgate's preference, but I think the others are mostly set in stone.


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## drewster (May 17, 2018)

Looking at the squad surely he's going to go "sh&t or bust " and just go out City/Liverpool style and try and score more than the oppo ? If it was me I'd find a way to play Vardy, Kane, Sterling and Alli all in from the start. Add Pickford, Walker, Maguire, Stones , Dier , Rose and Henderson.  Let the front 4 just play , don't stifle them with anything ...just go out and play. Gung ho for me !!!!!!


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## Piece (May 17, 2018)

I hope he plays these:

Pope

Stones Cahill Maguire

Walker Sterling Dier Henderson Rose

Kane Vardy


Would just like to see our best strikers given a chance together, not the usual "we'll leave one on the bench for impact later" rubbish.

Shame that Tarkowski didn't make it. He would be instead of Cahill for me.


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## Crazyface (May 17, 2018)

drewster said:



			Looking at the squad surely he's going to go "sh&t or bust " and just go out City/Liverpool style and try and score more than the oppo ? If it was me I'd find a way to play Vardy, Kane, Sterling and Alli all in from the start. Add Pickford, Walker, Maguire, Stones , Dier , Rose and Henderson.  Let the front 4 just play , *don't stifle them with anything ...just go out and play. Gung ho for me !!!!!!*

Click to expand...

Ditto this. What the hell, cavalry charge until we run out of steam then hang on for grim death....if we've got anything to hang on to.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2018)

I still look at the squad and see lots of pace and lots of steel and strength ready to dig in 

But the first thing is the formation- clearly going three at the back plus wing backs and I expect two guys to sit ( Henderson and Dier ) - which leaves three spots and prob some of England bests players looking to fill those spots - Ali , Vardy , Kane , Sterling - I canâ€™t see all four being squeezed which I think means Vardy misses out 

So the team I expect will be 

Pickford/Butland

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Cahill
Rose

Henderson
Dier

Ali
Sterling
Kane 

- the one thing that sticks out as missing is someone who can create with a bit of guile and clever passes - thatâ€™s where I would have Lallana coming on 

But as Lallana is only a standby using the players he has picked this is how I would line up

Butland 

Walker
Stones
Maguire
Rose

Henderson
Dier
Ali

Vardy
Kane
Sterling 

Again itâ€™s still missing the creative player but I think it makes better use of the players pace and it can move to a three at the back with Dier having the ability to drop in 

For me I still donâ€™t understand the picks of Welbeck , Jones , Delph and Young ( already got four fullbacks ) 

Would have replaced them with - Lallana , Tarkowski , Wilshire and the wild card Foden.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 17, 2018)

And putting everything else aside I shall be supporting England all the way to the Final...


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 17, 2018)

Not good enough to be a regular starter for his club and when he did start he was average at best. 

Yet still people are suggesting he should be in the squad. 

Who? Jack Wilshere. 

Can anyone tell me when he last had a a major influence on a game for club or country.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 17, 2018)

Personally I rather hope no Liverpool players play any games. I donâ€™t wont them risking injury or not getting the end of season rest all players need.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Not good enough to be a regular starter for his club and when he did start he was average at best. 

Yet still people are suggesting he should be in the squad. 

Who? Jack Wilshere. 

Can anyone tell me when he last had a a major influence on a game for club or country.
		
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He has been a regular starter this season barring injury , despite his overhype he can actually play a pass and is an intelligent player , at times this year for his club he has stood out. The squad seriously lacks any sort of passing creativity and whilst Wilshire is not as good as people suggest he is still a better passer than they have in the squad. Unless you can think of someone better that has been missed


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## Kellfire (May 17, 2018)

Ashley Young should be nailed on for the LWB spot - streets ahead of Danny Rose this year.


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## Deleted member 18588 (May 17, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has been a regular starter this season barring injury , despite his overhype he can actually play a pass and is an intelligent player , at times this year for his club he has stood out. The squad seriously lacks any sort of passing creativity and whilst Wilshire is not as good as people suggest he is still a better passer than they have in the squad. Unless you can think of someone better that has been missed
		
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Shelvey. 

Questions over his character but the same is true of Wilshere and Shelvey has been in much better form. 

I agree that the squad is short of creativity but Wilshere is not the answer.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Shelvey. 

Questions over his character but the same is true of Wilshere and Shelvey has been in much better form. 

I agree that the squad is short of creativity but Wilshere is not the answer.
		
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Fair shout on Shelvey - he is another that can add a very good long passing range , and should be in the squad - Wilshire and Shelvey are both far from the answer but right now until some of the better young ones come through they are as close as England can get.


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## Beezerk (May 17, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Fair shout on Shelvey - he is another that can add a very good long passing range , and should be in the squad - Wilshire and Shelvey are both far from the answer but right now until some of the better young ones come through they are as close as England can get.
		
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Long passing game? Are we back in the 80s again lol. Thereâ€™s no space in international football now, successful long passes are as rare as hens teeth. Wilshire tries the miracle ball far too often which is one of his downfalls, Shelvey is just a big fish in a small pond, has never cut it in a decent quality team.


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## Orikoru (May 17, 2018)

I think Wilshere and Shelvey are not there because Southgate has no intention of playing possession football. He doesn't want or need a midfield playmaker, he's selected a squad of physical players with pace to win the ball and bomb forward. Somewhat like the Liverpool model maybe, they don't really have a midfield playmaker either, it's just a case of sitting, winning the ball, and bombing forward on the counter. 

I still would have had Lallana in the squad in case we struggle to break down Tunisia or Panama in the groups, and need a different approach.


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## Beezerk (May 17, 2018)

In fact Iâ€™d say it shows how bad English football is that those two are even being discussed.


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## Orikoru (May 17, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			In fact Iâ€™d say it shows how bad English football is that those two are even being discussed.
		
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Shelvey is vastly overrated in my opinion. He's a good MOTD highlights player. If you see how many times he fires a 50 yard ball out of play in a game though - plus he's a thick as they come, there's no brain in his head. Similar to Barkley, some ability but no thought process going on whatsoever. 

Wilshere as well has never fulfilled whatever potential he had. He's never played enough football unfortunately. He can knock a ball around a bit but very undisciplined. We won't miss either of them.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Long passing game? Are we back in the 80s again lol. Thereâ€™s no space in international football now, successful long passes are as rare as hens teeth. Wilshire tries the miracle ball far too often which is one of his downfalls, Shelvey is just a big fish in a small pond, has never cut it in a decent quality team.
		
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Southgate picks a team full of pace looking to punish teams on the break - guess whatâ€™s a key element to that , someone with the ability to swing a ball over the top onto a Vardy or a Sterling breaking through 

Plenty of space in international football if a team can exploite it well 

Think Southgate had a chance to try something new - think he has missed out on doing that and going for safety


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## Slime (May 17, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			You're suggesting smalling deserves a place based on UTDs defensive record. Iâ€™m saying that I would say they have that record for a number of reasons, Mourinhoâ€™s tactics and De Geas brilliance being the main two, *and that smallings ability (lack of) has little to do with it.*

Click to expand...

He's still a better player than Cahill and playing far more regularly too.




Bunkermagnet said:



			Personally I rather hope no Liverpool players play any games. I donâ€™t wont them risking injury or not getting the end of season rest all players need.
		
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You're not an England supporter, then?



Kellfire said:



			Ashley Young should be nailed on for the LWB spot - streets ahead of Danny Rose this year.
		
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Totally agree with the above.


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## Beezerk (May 17, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Southgate picks a team full of pace looking to punish teams on the break - guess whatâ€™s a key element to that , someone with the ability to swing a ball over the top onto a Vardy or a Sterling breaking through 

Plenty of space in international football if a team can exploite it well 

Think Southgate had a chance to try something new - think he has missed out on doing that and going for safety
		
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As a supposed football expert, you don't half talk some guff at times ðŸ˜‚


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## Lord Tyrion (May 17, 2018)

Tunisia and Panama will sit deep and let us come onto them. There is going to be naff all space and the game will be played at a snails pace. The match will be full of short, sideways passes. Unless we score early and force the opposition to come out at us we always tend to struggle against those types of teams. If only Silva or De Bruyne were English.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 17, 2018)

Slime said:



			You're not an England supporter, then?
.
		
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Yes I am, but Iâ€™m fed up with successive England managers picking their best buddies or playing players out of position,  as well as the lack of acceptance that as a National team we are no-where near as good as many think we are.
I also canâ€™t stand the behaviour of English fans abroad and the bad impression they give every other country of us as a nation.


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## PieMan (May 17, 2018)

Remember the days when we were arguing and disappointed that Gazza had been left out of a World Cup Squad?

Now it's Shelvey, Smalling and Wilshere......

&#129316;&#129316;&#129316;

&#128557;&#128557;&#128557;

God we'll be as bad as Scotland soon......!! &#128521;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Orikoru (May 17, 2018)

PieMan said:



			Remember the days when we were arguing and disappointed that Gazza had been left out of a World Cup Squad?

Now it's Shelvey, Smalling and Wilshere......

&#63780;&#63780;&#63780;

&#63021;&#63021;&#63021;

God we'll be as bad as Scotland soon......!! &#62985;&#62978;&#62978;&#62978;
		
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I'm not disappointed any of those three are out of the squad.


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## drewster (May 17, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I'm not disappointed any of those three are out of the squad. 

Click to expand...

Neither am I , the only one I am disappointed about actually being in the squad is Welbeck. Swap him for Lallana and it would be A1.  I'm very intrigued by Loftus-Cheek, I think he could be the "joker in the pack" and given the opportunity could do all the things Wilshere, Shelvey can and potentially more.


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## IanM (May 17, 2018)

PieMan said:



			Remember the days when we were arguing and disappointed that Gazza had been left out of a World Cup Squad?

Now it's Shelvey, Smalling and Wilshere......

&#55358;&#56612;&#55358;&#56612;&#55358;&#56612;

&#55357;&#56877;&#55357;&#56877;&#55357;&#56877;

God we'll be as bad as Scotland soon......!! &#55357;&#56841;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;
		
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But Gazza was out "crocked" and those above were "just not selected!"  So still slightly less bad than our Scots Buddies...


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## MadAdey (May 17, 2018)

It all comes down to one thing with the England team, we really do not have any top players nowadays to even consider going much further than qualifying from the group phase. I always look at it like this............. if you had to pick 2 18 man squads to have an all star game, which England players would get a look in. I would say Kane and Walker would get in, but you wouldn't even consider anyone else.

But it is nice to see that he has picked some kids to go as it will give them valuable experience. Alexander-Arnold, Loftus-Cheek, Lingard and Rashford are the future of English football. They are regular players in Premier League teams, so people can't say they are not ready or experienced enough to be in the Squad. Too often in the past England managers have frustrated me by not taking some of the kids to these tournaments and waiting until they have come of age to give them the opportunity.


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## Piece (May 18, 2018)

Jack Wilshere in the press this morning barking that he was fit, strong and should be on the plane to Russia. 

Playing well for 45 mins over a couple of seasons doesn't earn you a spot on the plane.


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## Beezerk (May 18, 2018)

Piece said:



			Jack Wilshere in the press this morning barking that he was fit, strong and should be on the plane to Russia. 

Playing well for 45 mins over a couple of seasons doesn't earn you a spot on the plane.
		
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Itâ€™s him all over, a belligerent little shiister. I didnâ€™t realise he want only 26.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2018)

#delusional


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## Orikoru (May 18, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Itâ€™s him all over, a belligerent little shiister. I didnâ€™t realise he want only 26.
		
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Wilshere needs to grow up. You say he's 'only 26' but he still acts like he's 18. He needs to realise he's basically a mediocre bag of wasted potential at this point, knuckle down and work harder. He seems to think he should walk into the Arsenal and England teams based on essentially nothing.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 18, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Wilshere needs to grow up. You say he's 'only 26' but he still acts like he's 18. He needs to realise he's basically a mediocre bag of wasted potential at this point, knuckle down and work harder. He seems to think he should walk into the Arsenal and England teams based on essentially nothing.
		
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His spell at Bournemouth highlighted this. Out of his comfort zone where he was no longer worshipped and could not hold down a place.

There is a good player in there but he needs to stop being an arrogant, angry man and get his head down. I suspect a move away from Arsenal would do him some good.


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## Orikoru (May 18, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			His spell at Bournemouth highlighted this. Out of his comfort zone where he was no longer worshipped and could not hold down a place.

There is a good player in there but he needs to stop being an arrogant, angry man and get his head down. I suspect a move away from Arsenal would do him some good.
		
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Agree with that. I doubt the new manager would show him as much loyalty and patience as Wenger has. Wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the first out the door. (Then again if it's Arteta as manager I'm not sure I can see him being any more ruthless than Wenger was. )


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## USER1999 (May 18, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Agree with that. I doubt the new manager would show him as much loyalty and patience as Wenger has. Wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the first out the door. (Then again if it's Arteta as manager I'm not sure I can see him being any more ruthless than Wenger was. )
		
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Really? What do you actually know of Arteta? From all accounts in the press, he will be anything but soft.


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## drewster (May 18, 2018)

Piece said:



			Jack Wilshere in the press this morning barking that he was fit, strong and should be on the plane to Russia. 

Playing well for 45 mins over a couple of seasons doesn't earn you a spot on the plane.
		
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The kid's made of glass and blew England out last 2 times he's been picked. Why he thinks he has a divine right amazes me .


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 18, 2018)

Wouldnâ€™t it be nice if the media forgot about those not going and concentrated on supporting those that are.
Southgate has made his choice and has a few reserves, he will be judged by the media  in Russia, if he over achieves itâ€™ll be Jack and Adam who? If he gets it wrong itâ€™â€™ll be because he didnâ€™t take them.
Our media cause more problems than there needs to be.


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## Orikoru (May 18, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Really? What do you actually know of Arteta? From all accounts in the press, he will be anything but soft.
		
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Actually I was just thinking because he played alongside these players not too long ago, it might be more difficult for him to cut them. More difficult than say a manager coming in with no connection to the club or the players. It's easier to sack a stranger than a friend.


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## USER1999 (May 18, 2018)

I think his appointment would be interesting. I think all the back room team will be Gazidis appointments, with Arteta as head coach, in effect. I think the manager, as such, will not exist, or certainly will not have absolute power. That will be held by Gazidis, Sanlehi, and Mislintat, with a bit of Josh Kroenke thrown in too.


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## MegaSteve (May 18, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			I think his appointment would be interesting. I think all the back room team will be Gazidis appointments, with Arteta as head coach, in effect. I think the manager, as such, will not exist, or certainly will not have absolute power. That will be held by Gazidis, Sanlehi, and Mislintat, with a bit of Josh Kroenke thrown in too.
		
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Interesting... As in optimistic?

Or, interesting... As in scary?

I am concerned with Junior Kroenke having any say whatsoever...


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## USER1999 (May 18, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Interesting... As in optimistic?

Or, interesting... As in scary?

I am concerned with Junior Kroenke having any say whatsoever...
		
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Arsenal are truly rubbish at present, and still 6th. They will not finish worse that 8th, what ever happens. If this appointment does not work, what is the worst that will happen? We will watch junk footy for a couple of years. Well, guess what? We have been anyway.

But, it might work, and things might get better.

Interesting.


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## Orikoru (May 18, 2018)

Now that the squad has been announced I just want the World Cup to start now. I'm not down with waiting another whole month.


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## MadAdey (May 18, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Arsenal are truly rubbish at present, and still 6th. They will not finish worse that 8th, what ever happens. If this appointment does not work, what is the worst that will happen? We will watch junk footy for a couple of years. Well, guess what? We have been anyway.

But, it might work, and things might get better.

Interesting.
		
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I think you hit the nail on the head there. Arsenal no matter what happens will finish top 6, just because the team is too good not too. Problem Arsenal has with getting a new manager is what do they have to offer, no champion league football, a squad that needs some sorting out and will the new manager get a kings ransom to spend? So it's not like they will have the top coaches of Europe knocking down the door.


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## MegaSteve (May 18, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Arsenal are truly rubbish at present, and still 6th. They will not finish worse that 8th, what ever happens. If this appointment does not work, what is the worst that will happen? We will watch junk footy for a couple of years. Well, guess what? We have been anyway.

But, it might work, and things might get better.

Interesting.
		
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The future of football at Arsenal [and probably many other clubs] lies with decisions taken in corridors... All they want is a front man to take the flak and be despatched if necessary... Cold light of day tells me all the other names bandied about [front line managers with a history or record of management] were never considered... 

Wrighty's phrase about Kroenke [Snr] keeps coming back to haunt me...
"The master of mediocrity"....


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 18, 2018)

MadAdey said:



			I think you hit the nail on the head there. Arsenal no matter what happens will finish top 6, just because the team is too good not too. Problem Arsenal has with getting a new manager is what do they have to offer, no champion league football, a squad that needs some sorting out and will the new manager get a kings ransom to spend? So it's not like they will have the top coaches of Europe knocking down the door.
		
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Havenâ€™t Utd, Chelsea and LPool finished outside the top 6 in recent years  with arguably stronger squads?


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## USER1999 (May 18, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			The future of football at Arsenal [and probably many other clubs] lies with decisions taken in corridors... All they want is a front man to take the flak and be despatched if necessary... Cold light of day tells me all the other names bandied about [front line managers with a history or record of management] were never considered... 

Wrighty's phrase about Kroenke [Snr] keeps coming back to haunt me...
"The master of mediocrity"....
		
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Dont get me wrong, I wanted Nagelsman, or Hazenhutl, who are yound managers. But, I think Arteta could be a touch of genius. Better than the same old you would get with Ancellotti, etc, and Arsenal don't want a manager with an entourage. 

They are not getting relegated any time soon, and so don't need a sure pair of hands. Go off grid, get someone with vision, a plan, an ethos, and go with that. Arteta? Why not? Poch rates him, Pep rates him. Give him a go.

But, if it really doesn't work, Gazidis has to fall on his sword.


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## MadAdey (May 18, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Havenâ€™t both Chelsea and LPool finished outside the top 6 in recent years  with arguably stronger squads?
		
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??????????

What has that got to do with anything. They might have done, all Iâ€™m saying is no matter who they get to manage the team, the squad is strong enough to still finish in the top 6. But to get back into the top 4 they might need a miracle worker or some serious squad overhaul. Man City will spend big, so will United, Chelsea and Liverpool, Spurs Iâ€™m not too sure what the plan is. So Arsenal will need to overcome their shortcomings from this season and 
get a squad capable of competing again.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 18, 2018)

MadAdey said:



			??????????

What has that got to do with anything. They might have done, all Iâ€™m saying is no matter who they get to manage the team, the squad is strong enough to still finish in the top 6. But to get back into the top 4 they might need a miracle worker or some serious squad overhaul. Man City will spend big, so will United, Chelsea and Liverpool, Spurs Iâ€™m not too sure what the plan is. So Arsenal will need to overcome their shortcomings from this season and 
get a squad capable of competing again.
		
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You stated  â€œArsenal no matter what happens will finish top 6â€ thatâ€™s a guess and by no means a certainty, Arsenal fans have openly stated on here they may go backwards before going forwards.
A top 6 finish for any club is not guaranteed.


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## USER1999 (May 18, 2018)

I think the plan, is to go the Dortmund route. Identify up and coming players, buy at value, and turn over the squad with younth and enthusiasm. Hence signing Mavropoulis. Others will follow. Can't compete with the big boys on purchases. Bog average players going for crazy sums too. 

Welcome to the roller coaster!


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## Kellfire (May 21, 2018)

Martinez isn't taking Nainggolan to the WC. Hmmmm.


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## Dan2501 (May 21, 2018)

Fellaini and Witsel in. Nainggolan out. Makes sense. Martinez is an imbecile.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			Martinez isn't taking Nainggolan to the WC. Hmmmm.
		
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I told you all that Martinez was an idiot!


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## Kellfire (May 21, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I told you all that Martinez was an idiot!
		
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Well Nainggolan has retired from international football... I wonder if that will be reversed should Martinez leave. I don't get why they've just extended his contract though. Odd timing!

Benteke makes the initial squad, if anyone wondered...


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2018)

Kellfire said:



*Well Nainggolan has retired from international football*... I wonder if that will be reversed should Martinez leave. I don't get why they've just extended his contract though. Odd timing!

Benteke makes the initial squad, if anyone wondered... 

Click to expand...

I do hate it when players do that though. "I never fancied her anyway!" Petulant.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I told you all that Martinez was an idiot!
		
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The Guy has only played 30 internationals in 9 years, wasnâ€™t in the 2014 squad,  he retired last year and then was injured when selected by Martinez, why is Martinez the idiot, 1 decent season with Roma and suddenly Belgium need him, maybe Martinez and Henry know a bit more than us.


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			The Guy has only played 30 internationals in 9 years, wasnâ€™t in the 2014 squad,  he retired last year and then was injured when selected by Martinez, why is Martinez the idiot, 1 decent season with Roma and suddenly Belgium need him, maybe Martinez and Henry know a bit more than us.
		
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lol don't be daft. Nainggolan is one of the best midfielders in Europe.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			lol don't be daft. Nainggolan is one of the best midfielders in Europe.
		
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On what basis, one good season with Roma, he played for Belgium a few times over the last few years, including before Martinez,
If heâ€™s that good, whatâ€™s been the issue? Why didnâ€™t he go to the 2014 WC? When there was rumours about him being disruptive then.


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## Kellfire (May 21, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			On what basis, one good season with Roma, he played for Belgium a few times over the last few years, including before Martinez,
If heâ€™s that good, whatâ€™s been the issue? Why didnâ€™t he go to the 2014 WC? When there was rumours about him being disruptive then.
		
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It's 2018, not 2014. His performance then is irrelevant.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			It's 2018, not 2014. His performance then is irrelevant.
		
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Maybe itâ€™s his performances that are irrelevant, he has a history of being disruptive in the squad, Martinez prefers De Bruyne or Hazard or Mertens. Heâ€™s never been a regular, 1 good season isnâ€™t enough.


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## Jensen (May 21, 2018)

At least Abramovich will get to see some of his Chelsea players, unlike I now the UK with no Visa &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Orikoru (May 21, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe itâ€™s his performances that are irrelevant, he has a history of being disruptive in the squad, Martinez prefers De Bruyne or Hazard or Mertens. Heâ€™s never been a regular, 1 good season isnâ€™t enough.
		
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I suspected his attitude might be the issue, but in that case Martinez shouldn't have made himself look like a clown by giving a B.S. reason in his press conference, where he said it was for tactical reasons. :rofl:


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## Dan2501 (May 21, 2018)

Nainggolan has been one of the stand-out midfielders in the Serie A for at least 4 years now (He's featured in every FIFA Serie A Team of the Season since 2015 for example). Martinez obviously has a problem with his personality and as a result has picked a bloke who plays in China and another who is an absolute donkey who has featured in just half of his club teams fixtures this season instead. Nainggolan may play in an advanced forward role similar to Mertens and sort of De Bruyne but he's more than just an attacking midfielder, he's an all around midfield powerhouse that can do everything. Leaving him out because he smokes the odd cigarette and has a bit of an attitude is laughable. He'd walk into England's midfield with ease.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 21, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Nainggolan has been one of the stand-out midfielders in the Serie A for at least 4 years now (He's featured in every FIFA Serie A Team of the Season since 2015 for example). Martinez obviously has a problem with his personality and as a result has picked a bloke who plays in China and another who is an absolute donkey who has featured in just half of his club teams fixtures this season instead. Nainggolan may play in an advanced forward role similar to Mertens and sort of De Bruyne but he's more than just an attacking midfielder, he's an all around midfield powerhouse that can do everything. Leaving him out because he smokes the odd cigarette and has a bit of an attitude is laughable. He'd walk into England's midfield with ease.
		
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If heâ€™s been such a stand out for so long, how come previous Belgian managers didnâ€™t select him or start him when they did?
Weâ€™re all allowed opinions :thup: but once again we talk about those left out, maybe itâ€™s good for England heâ€™s not going.


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			If heâ€™s been such a stand out for so long, how come previous Belgian managers didnâ€™t select him or start him when they did?
Weâ€™re all allowed opinions :thup: but once again we talk about those left out, maybe itâ€™s good for England heâ€™s not going.
		
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They did. He started hitting form in around 2014 I'd say, so he got 4 caps that year, 9 in 2015, 9 in 2016. From Wikipedia: "Nainggolan was an undisputed starter for the Marc Wilmots-led Red Devils during the UEFA Euro 2016 qualifying campaign." Then Martinez takes over and it all goes sour. 

It's definitely good for England he's not going, since they're in our group. I reckon we'll draw with them, but still have to take 2nd in the group because Hazard and co will smash 5 past Panama whereas we nick a 1-0 win against them with a late penalty.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			They did. He started hitting form in around 2014 I'd say, so he got 4 caps that year, 9 in 2015, 9 in 2016. From Wikipedia: "Nainggolan was an undisputed starter for the Marc Wilmots-led Red Devils during the UEFA Euro 2016 qualifying campaign." Then Martinez takes over and it all goes sour. 

It's definitely good for England he's not going, since they're in our group. I reckon we'll draw with them, but still have to take 2nd in the group because Hazard and co will smash 5 past Panama whereas we nick a 1-0 win against them with a late penalty.
		
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Nice bit of wiki selection :rofl:
No mention that he made his international debut 5 years before and made 5 appearances in 5 years and not selected for 2014 WC, then Wilmots substituted him and dropped him during the EC finals in 2016, then Wilmots is sacked, maybe his sacking was due to the players he picked not being good enough.
Itâ€™s easy to google info to support each pov.
:thup:


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## Beezerk (May 22, 2018)




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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Nice bit of wiki selection :rofl:
No mention that he made his international debut 5 years before and made 5 appearances in 5 years and not selected for 2014 WC, then Wilmots substituted him and dropped him during the EC finals in 2016, then Wilmots is sacked, maybe his sacking was due to the players he picked not being good enough.
Itâ€™s easy to google info to support each pov.
:thup:
		
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I told you Nainggolan hit form and prominence in 2014-ish, or did you just ignore that bit? Since he joined Roma he has become one of Europe's best midfielders. If you honestly think the Belgian side is better off with Fellaini then I'm just going to give up talking to you. Not sure if you actually watch football or not at this point.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I told you Nainggolan hit form and prominence in 2014-ish, or did you just ignore that bit? Since he joined Roma he has become one of Europe's best midfielders. If you honestly think the Belgian side is better off with Fellaini then I'm just going to give up talking to you. Not sure if you actually watch football or not at this point.
		
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So because someone doesnâ€™t agree with you about 1 footballer your toys are thrown, havenâ€™t mentioned Fellaini so not sure what heâ€™s got to do with it, explained succesive managers have had issues with him, he made his debut for Belgium in 2009 and was already known, still you ignored why he wasnâ€™t selected for 2014 WC.
Stated heâ€™s had a good season, my point was somehow Martinez is the idiot, maybe at 30yrs old itâ€™s time he took responsibility for his behaviour.
Heâ€™s not been in the Belgian squad that has qualified for Russia as one of the favourites, but now heâ€™s not going, somehow theyâ€™re weaker.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 22, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I told you Nainggolan hit form and prominence in 2014-ish, or did you just ignore that bit? Since he joined Roma he has become one of Europe's best midfielders. If you honestly think the Belgian side is better off with Fellaini then I'm just going to give up talking to you. Not sure if you actually watch football or not at this point.
		
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Nainggolan has had issues with the national squad for a long time , he is a very talented player but his attitude is a big issue . He has retired from Internationals before I believe before the WC qualifiers after he was dropped For a qualifier I think it was , he was also left out of the previous World Cup - Nainggolan has been around and prominent since before 2014 .

He would be a decent player for Belgium but itâ€™s not as if they are dropping their version of Messi. Witsel is more than capable of providing anything Nainggolan did. And Fellani actually plays a damn sight better for Belgium than he does for Utd but then if you actually watch football you might know all that


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			So because someone doesnâ€™t agree with you about 1 footballer your toys are thrown, havenâ€™t mentioned Fellaini so not sure what heâ€™s got to do with it, explained succesive managers have had issues with him, he made his debut for Belgium in 2009 and was already known, *still you ignored why he wasnâ€™t selected for 2014 WC.*
Stated heâ€™s had a good season, my point was somehow Martinez is the idiot, maybe at 30yrs old itâ€™s time he took responsibility for his behaviour.
Heâ€™s not been in the Belgian squad that has qualified for Russia as one of the favourites, but now heâ€™s not going, somehow theyâ€™re weaker.
		
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This settles it, you can't read. Twice now I've said he only came to prominence in mid-2014, was obviously too late to make the cut for the World Cup in that summer. He moved to Roma after that World Cup, after which he started to become the great player he is now. Like I already said. I shan't bother saying it anymore times, three should be enough.


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## Papas1982 (May 22, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			This settles it, you can't read. Twice now I've said he only came to prominence in mid-2014, was obviously too late to make the cut for the World Cup in that summer. He moved to Roma after that World Cup, after which he started to become the great player he is now. Like I already said. I shan't bother saying it anymore times, three should be enough. 

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Heâ€™s played 4 games for Belgium since 2016. Basically under Martinez. Him being dropped is hardly a surprise.

During that time Belgium have qualified and are apparently one of the favourites. If theyâ€™ve got that tag without Nainggolan so far. I doubt they need it (him) now. 

He had 2 years playing for Belgium and did nothing to cement his place in a squad. Not sure that makes MartÃ­nez an idiot.


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## Deleted member 16999 (May 22, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			This settles it, you can't read. Twice now I've said he only came to prominence in mid-2014, was obviously too late to make the cut for the World Cup in that summer. He moved to Roma after that World Cup, after which he started to become the great player he is now. Like I already said. I shan't bother saying it anymore times, three should be enough. 

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Rubbish, saying thatâ€™s when he came to prominence means thatâ€™s when you might of heard of him, he made his full international debut in 2009.
In his youth he was known as a future Belgian star and he never fully lived up to the tag.


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			Heâ€™s played 4 games for Belgium since 2016. Basically under Martinez. Him being dropped is hardly a surprise.

During that time Belgium have qualified and are apparently one of the favourites. If theyâ€™ve got that tag without Nainggolan so far. I doubt they need it (him) now. 

He had 2 years playing for Belgium and did nothing to cement his place in a squad. Not sure that makes MartÃ­nez an idiot.
		
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I don't see Belgium as one of the favourites at all. If they had a better manager they probably would be. They will probably make the last 8 and no more. Could see them slipping up in the last 16 even. 

To point out that they qualified is hardly worth merit, for them to have _not_ qualified from that group would have been a total disaster. They were only up against Greece and Bosnia. Sure, they made light work of it, so well done to them.


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## Papas1982 (May 22, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I don't see Belgium as one of the favourites at all. If they had a better manager they probably would be. They will probably make the last 8 and no more. Could see them slipping up in the last 16 even. 

To point out that they qualified is hardly worth merit, for them to have _not_ qualified from that group would have been a total disaster. They were only up against Greece and Bosnia. Sure, they made light work of it, so well done to them.
		
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I donâ€™t think theyâ€™ll do to well either, BUT they are touted by the bookies and media and done so without him being near the squad. Their odds havenâ€™t suddently jumped 10 points at his exclusion. 

He was part part of the squad 2 years ago and they went there with short odds again if I recall. Howâ€™d that work out?

he has only himself to blame, from what Iâ€™ve read about him, heâ€™s a numpty and plenty of managers has disciplined him, so MartÃ­nez is just one of a few idiots....


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			I donâ€™t think theyâ€™ll do to well either, BUT they are touted by the bookies and media and done so without him being near the squad. Their odds havenâ€™t suddently jumped 10 points at his exclusion. 

He was part part of the squad 2 years ago and they went there with short odds again if I recall. Howâ€™d that work out?

he has only himself to blame, from what Iâ€™ve read about him, heâ€™s a numpty and plenty of managers has disciplined him, so MartÃ­nez is just one of a few idiots....
		
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Fair, the likes of Hazard and De Bruyne will carry them to a certain degree of course. I know Radja is known for being a smoker and likes to let his hair down, I'm just saying the player he has become these days, I'd have though you find a way for him to be in your squad that's all. Belgium have a strong first team, but once you look at the bench there's not really anyone of similar quality to come in. So I am stunned he was included in their 28 provisional squad. Plus, as I said earlier, Martinez didn't claim it was down to attitude, he gave some nonsense reason about it being a tactical decision, despite Nainggolan being a very versatile player.

Edit: With regards to the bookies odds, I always feel they're a bit artificially over-backed by English punters since the majority of their first team players play in England.


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## Papas1982 (May 22, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Fair, the likes of Hazard and De Bruyne will carry them to a certain degree of course. I know Radja is known for being a smoker and likes to let his hair down, I'm just saying the player he has become these days, I'd have though you find a way for him to be in your squad that's all. Belgium have a strong first team, but once you look at the bench there's not really anyone of similar quality to come in. So I am stunned he was included in their 28 provisional squad. Plus, as I said earlier, Martinez didn't claim it was down to attitude, he gave some nonsense reason about it being a tactical decision, despite Nainggolan being a very versatile player.

Edit: With regards to the bookies odds, I always feel they're a bit artificially over-backed by English punters since the majority of their first team players play in England.
		
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I think you could be right re the bookies. 

I agree Martinez should have dealt with it better. His â€˜tacticalâ€™ reason imo is much what Iâ€™ve said I that they got there without him and donâ€™t need him, but itâ€™s a weak one. Iâ€™d have more respect if he just came out and said he did;t want his influence or disruption.


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			I think you could be right re the bookies. 

I agree Martinez should have dealt with it better. His â€˜tacticalâ€™ reason imo is much what Iâ€™ve said I that they got there without him and donâ€™t need him, but itâ€™s a weak one. *Iâ€™d have more respect if he just came out and said he did;t want his influence or disruption.*

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Yeah, exactly that.


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## Dan2501 (May 22, 2018)

Belgium would have a good chance if they had a decent manager. No Nainggolan, no Origi, but instead he's picked two players who play their football in China, a 32 year old defender who plays in the MLS, Fellaini and how the hell has Chadli got in? He's only played 4 games for WBA this season. I can see them having a disappointing campaign personally. If Hazard and Mertens have a tough time I think they'll struggle to score enough goals to compete, KDB can't do it all on his own. If they had a fit and firing Batshuayi and an in-form Lukaku they might do a bit better but Batman's been injured and Lukaku has not had a brilliant season at all. 

Then you've got to factor in Martinez's lack of tactical nouse in regards to defending, his Everton side were one of the most disorganised defensive teams I've ever seen, we were awful. He's just fortunate he's got a leader like Kompany at the back as without him I don't think they'll be good enough to organise themselves and defend well enough. They don't really have a brilliant Defensive Midfielder either. Dembele is more box-to-box, so you're left with Dendoncker who has heaps of potential but has been playing primarily as a centre half for Anderlecht and is very inexperienced at the highest level. Left-back is also a bit of a worry for them. Lukaku is explosive going forward but isn't a brilliant defender and their only other option is dropping a CB like Vermaelen or Vertonghen in at LB which isn't great, I can't see either of those two being able to control someone like Messi or even Sterling down the right-side.

They'll get through the group stage I imagine but I'd be amazed if they got anywhere close to winning it. Brazil, France and Germany look the strongest sides to me and then Argentina's front 3 of Messi, Aguero and Dybala will scare any defence. Brazil's all around squad looks superb - you look at a side like this and you have to be a bit worried about facing them:

Ederson

Alves
Marcelo
Silva
Miranda

Fernandinho
Casemiro
Coutinho

Neymar
Firmino
Jesus

but then France have a scary amount of depth. You look at Ben Yedder, Coman, Martial, Lacazette, Digne, Rabiot and Zouma - and they're the players that didn't even make the squad. Mbappe, Dembele and Greizmann is an unbelievable front 3 - especially with Pogba, Kante and Matiudi/Tolisso sat behind them. What a team. Then you can never write off the Germans - their squad looks incredibly solid as always.


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

I have a prediction game going with some pals and I've gone for a France Germany final (Germany winning it), with Brazil and Spain as the losing semi-finalists. France have an immense squad but I think Germany shade it. They have the best defence (most of it Bayern), top class midfield, and dangerous attackers including Sane, and Reus who touch wood is finally fit for a major tournament (maybe not enough to start though - we shall see). MÃ¼ller is a bit of a goal machine in tournaments too.


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## User62651 (May 22, 2018)

Seems that Pele's prediction that an African team would win the world cup looks further away than ever. Around 1990-02 there seemed to be a move up from 'lesser' teams but it's dwindled and the usual powerhouses seem streets ahead of any newbies knocking on the door these days - Brazil,France,Spain,Germany well above the rest with Argentina not far behind.
Cant see Belguim or Portugal doing much. If England make last 8 that's a half decent tournament I think.


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## Dan2501 (May 22, 2018)

See I see Germany's midfield and attack as their strongest assets this World Cup. Reus has been excellent, Sane's been brilliant for City, they've got the electric pace of Timo Werner and Muller as you said always turns up for the big tournaments. Then in the midfield you don't get much better than Toni Kroos, then you put him alongside the superb Gundogan and the supremely talented and very highly-rated Leon Goretzka and you've got a heck of a midfield. I think Goretzka could turn out to be one of the stars of the tournament.

The defence haven't been brilliant though this year. Boateng's hardly played, Neuer has only played 3 times for Bayern this year and as a result Ter Stegen will more than likely take the gloves, and Hummels and Sule who have played in Boateng's absence have been criticised for being clumsy and too slow. They do have arguably the best right back in the world though in Joshua Kimmich who has been magnificent in all competitions this season and Jonathan Tah who will be their defensive leader in years to come but not sure their defence is looking particularly strong this year - not compared to previous years anyway.


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## Hacker Khan (May 22, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			See I see Germany's midfield and attack as their strongest assets this World Cup. Reus has been excellent, Sane's been brilliant for City, they've got the electric pace of Timo Werner and Muller as you said always turns up for the big tournaments. Then in the midfield you don't get much better than Toni Kroos, then you put him alongside the superb Gundogan and the supremely talented and very highly-rated Leon Goretzka and you've got a heck of a midfield. I think Goretzka could turn out to be one of the stars of the tournament.

The defence haven't been brilliant though this year. Boateng's hardly played, Neuer has only played 3 times for Bayern this year and as a result Ter Stegen will more than likely take the gloves, and Hummels and Sule who have played in Boateng's absence have been criticised for being clumsy and too slow. They do have arguably the best right back in the world though in Joshua Kimmich who has been magnificent in all competitions this season and Jonathan Tah who will be their defensive leader in years to come *but not sure their defence is looking particularly strong this year - not compared to previous years anyway*.
		
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So does their weakness in defence that mean they will not do as well as expected and only lose in the final, as opposed to wining it?


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Seems that Pele's prediction that an African team would win the world cup looks further away than ever. Around 1990-02 there seemed to be a move up from 'lesser' teams but it's dwindled and the usual powerhouses seem streets ahead of any newbies knocking on the door these days - Brazil,France,Spain,Germany well above the rest with Argentina not far behind.
Cant see Belguim or Portugal doing much. If England make last 8 that's a half decent tournament I think.
		
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After reading your post I've just looked up the Fifa world rankings and I'm stunned to learn that Tunisia are the highest ranked African side in 14th! Only one behind us!! How on earth?? Now I'm worried about us getting out of the group all over again. 

After them the next highest is Senegal in 28th.


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## Orikoru (May 22, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			See I see Germany's midfield and attack as their strongest assets this World Cup. Reus has been excellent, Sane's been brilliant for City, they've got the electric pace of Timo Werner and Muller as you said always turns up for the big tournaments. Then in the midfield you don't get much better than Toni Kroos, then you put him alongside the superb Gundogan and the supremely talented and very highly-rated Leon Goretzka and you've got a heck of a midfield. I think Goretzka could turn out to be one of the stars of the tournament.

The defence haven't been brilliant though this year. Boateng's hardly played, Neuer has only played 3 times for Bayern this year and as a result Ter Stegen will more than likely take the gloves, and Hummels and Sule who have played in Boateng's absence have been criticised for being clumsy and too slow. They do have arguably the best right back in the world though in Joshua Kimmich who has been magnificent in all competitions this season and Jonathan Tah who will be their defensive leader in years to come but not sure their defence is looking particularly strong this year - not compared to previous years anyway.
		
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I knew about Neuer - but Stegen is a more than able replacement. I didn't realise that about Boateng though actually. Not sure Goretzka will start many games as you have completely neglected Ozil, who will surely start most if not all games. Plus Khedira usually gets the nod in a holding role.


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