# Rangers



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 12, 2012)

HMRC do not accept CVA so Rangers now must seek Newco status.

How the mighty have fallen. Cap in hand to the 'Wee Teams' to let them play in the SPL.


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## CMAC (Jun 12, 2012)

so I assume if liquidated all assets have to be realised by the liquidators for the market value to pay off the debts?

All players and staff will have no 'Rangers' contract and are free to move on?

A new Company will have no ground to play at or position in the SPL?


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

We all know that the SPL, SFA, SFL and any other governing body of Scottish football that has bent over backward over the years to keep Rangers and Celtic happy will bend the rules and/or invent new ones to make sure any Newco Rangers will be playing in the SPL next season.

They should be relegated to the third division just like any of the so called "wee teams" would have been if they had CHEATED for years like Rangers have.


If, sorry, WHEN the Newco Rangers are allowed to play in the SPL again next season it will be the final nail in the coffin for Scottish football. There are many fans of many other clubs ready to turn their backs on Scottish football if Rangers get away with this and I for one will never attend another game in Scotland.


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## Durango (Jun 12, 2012)

Scottish football is dreadful as it is. Without Rangers it will be even worse, Celtic competing against ermmm nobody.Snore.


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

Durango said:



			Scottish football is dreadful as it is. Without Rangers it will be even worse, Celtic competing against ermmm nobody.Snore.
		
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Typical English response

I always forget just how competitive the English Premiership is. I mean after all since its introduction 20 years ago theres been 5 different winners in a league twice the size of the SPL and two no sorry three of those only won it after massive cash injections Man City, Chelsea and Blackburn. Pots and kettles spring to mind.


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

smange said:



			If, sorry, WHEN the Newco Rangers are allowed to play in the SPL again next season
		
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Not going to happen Stevie, a lot of the other chairmen are royally fed up with the attitude coming out of iBrokes for the last few weeks with Chuckie Green spouting there will be Â£30m in the pot at the end of next month yet they can't/won't pay their football debts? 

Now wait for the sycophantic media to ramp up the newco plan before that gets the bulllet as well.


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## full_throttle (Jun 12, 2012)

If Rangers get demoted to the 3rd tier how would the Sky TV contract be affected?


In my view, as a neutral, surely Rangers starting over again is better for the whole of Scottish Football. Elgin, Stranrear et al would be financially sound for a few more years if they played host to Rangers two/three times a year in league football, following promotion Rangers would then visit more clubs that require the finances to stay in the red.

I'm pretty sure that within a 3/4 year period Rangers would be back in the SPL.


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Not going to happen Stevie, a lot of the other chairmen are royally fed up with the attitude coming out of iBrokes for the last few weeks with Chuckie Green spouting there will be Â£30m in the pot at the end of next month yet they can't/won't pay their football debts? 

Now wait for the sycophantic media to ramp up the newco plan before that gets the bulllet as well.
		
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They might be fed up with it Chris but when it comes down to it they will vote in favour because most of them are only interested in the supposed few extra quid a year playing Rangers will bring in.

Its a complete farce and any other team, except for Celtic, would have been relegated by now but the rotten to the core SPL governing body will bend and break rules to suit the Newco.


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

The SPL/SFA wont be the walkovers they might have been a few weeks ago prior to Rangers going to court.

Lots and lots to run on this yet, reports are that due to contract irregularities they "could" be stripped of 13 trophies including 5 SPL titles.


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

smange said:



			They might be fed up with it Chris but when it comes down to it they will vote in favour because most of them are only interested in the supposed few extra quid a year playing Rangers will bring in.

Its a complete farce and any other team, except for Celtic, would have been relegated by now but the rotten to the core SPL governing body will bend and break rules to suit the Newco.
		
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Seen a thing that said a club will only need another 200 - 300 season tickets to counter act the loss of ra peepil. As Valentino says LOTS more to come out of this and I would wager some folk could end up in the "big hoose" over it.


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

Another thing I can remember the late 80's where Rangers* were languishing at mid table at best. Where were the arguments then?


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Seen a thing that said a club will only need another 200 - 300 season tickets to counter act the loss of ra peepil. As Valentino says LOTS more to come out of this and I would wager some folk could end up in the "big hoose" over it.
		
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Lots of chairmen lately against any newco entry, Celtic, St Mirren, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen all have stressed they will be listening to their fans and the fans want them gone.

It's all Fergus McCanns fault.


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Another thing I can remember the late 80's where Rangers* were languishing at mid table at best. Where were the arguments then?
		
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Early 80's, Rangers 9IAR started 1989 with Celtic stopping 3IAR in 88


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Lots of chairmen lately against any newco entry, Celtic, St Mirren, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen all have stressed they will be listening to their fans and the fans want them gone.
		
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Will believe it when I see it, think theres a bit of trying to save face going on with chairmen and their clubs supporters.

And please if it does happen and Rangers or any newco are not in the SPL can Dunfermline please not be re-instated into it. I prefer the first division with games against Raith and Falkirk to look forward to


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## Dodger (Jun 12, 2012)

Full Time Score - Glasgow Rangers 0 - HMRC 1 (Hector 93')

I do hope next seasons shirt hasn't been done with the 5 stars on yet....more wasted money.

Next up for HMRC is going after Murray and Whyte's arses..............custodial sentences beckon.

Pleasing.


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

smange said:



			Will believe it when I see it, think theres a bit of trying to save face going on with chairmen and their clubs supporters.

And please if it does happen and Rangers or any newco are not in the SPL can Dunfermline please not be re-instated into it. I prefer the first division with games against Raith and Falkirk to look forward to
		
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Maybe so but time will tell.

I get it, that way you may win a game or 2


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Early 80's, Rangers 9IAR started 1989 with Celtic stopping 3IAR in 88
		
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Yes, mistake on my part


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 12, 2012)

Rangers fan here - very sad about the demise of my club. Please keep the gloating to a minimum - I can't stop myself reading this thread even though I know I shouldn't... 



Dodger said:



			Next up for HMRC is going after Murray and Whyte's arses..............custodial sentences beckon.
		
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Hope so!

<sigh> My mixed fours partner works for HMRC.... he might be getting dumped!! :lol:


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Maybe so but time will tell.

I get it, that way you may win a game or 2 

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Expected that comment:ears:

Nah, more along the lines of some local rivalries and a bit of atmosphere at the matches instead of the sterile SPL


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

smange said:



			Expected that comment:ears:

Nah, more along the lines of some local rivalries and a bit of atmosphere at the matches instead of the sterile SPL
		
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These rivalries should be in the same league all be it top middle or bottom leagues.


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Rangers fan here - very sad about the demise of my club. Please keep the gloating to a minimum - I can't stop myself reading this thread even though I know I shouldn't...
		
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Your having a laugh surely? Almost 15 years of cheating their way to titles and trophies and you want opposing fans not to gloat?


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## sydney greenstreet (Jun 12, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			HMRC do not accept CVA so Rangers now must seek Newco status.

How the mighty have fallen. Cap in hand to the 'Wee Teams' to let them play in the SPL.
		
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Fill in the missing word !
We're having a party when ------- die ?
Jelly and ice cream when ------- die ?
Doing the conga when ------- die ?


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## sydney greenstreet (Jun 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Your having a laugh surely? Almost 15 years of cheating their way to titles and trophies and you want opposing fans not to gloat?
		
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^ This
:whoo::clap::thup::ears:


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## SS2 (Jun 12, 2012)

The appalling mismanagement and criminality by Murray and Whyte is to blame. The Revenue are quite right: why should they accept 9% of what they are owed by a bunch of tax dodgers ? Liquidation will allow them to (at least try to) expose how this happened, bring those responsible to justice and hopefully lay down an example of what happens to those who cheat.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 12, 2012)

Durango said:



			Scottish football is dreadful as it is. Without Rangers it will be even worse, Celtic competing against ermmm nobody.Snore.
		
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Scottish football is dreadful, doubt anyone can argue that, but's it's always nice to get confirmation from someone looking from the outside in.I'm sure if we had the same cash injection from Murdoch as The EPL had we'd think we were great too.Shame your national team isn't much better than ours.



smange said:



			Expected that comment:ears:

Nah, more along the lines of some local rivalries and a bit of atmosphere at the matches instead of the sterile SPL
		
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As a Hibby who was kinda looking forward to another 'great adventure', I agree.The SPL in it's current guise is stale, it needs dramatic reform.16/18 team league, playing each other twice a season, the removal of the insane all seater requirement ( see what Ross County are having to do), set fixture times in stone, one game Friday night, one game sunday night, the rest at 3pm on Saturday.There is your two TV games.Minimum of 6 home grown players.
Dunfie and your chairman are exactly the kind of club The SPL needs,not the likes of the guy at Killie who'd knock his grannie over to help out the hun.

Plus, your steak bridies are magnificent.


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## thecraw (Jun 12, 2012)

All Rangers players are now free to walk away is that correct????

New company with no players, no European football for 3 years. Cheerio.

Jack and I are going to celebrate tonight, two lumps of ice and a can of coke.


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

thecraw said:



			All Rangers players are now free to walk away is that correct????

New company with no players, no European football for 3 years. Cheerio.

Jack and I are going to celebrate tonight, two lumps of ice and a can of coke.
		
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From what I gather the SFA "own" the contratcs when the axe falls.


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## AuburnWarrior (Jun 12, 2012)

Always sad to see a football team go to the wall regardless of their size/politics.

I hope those responsible for the demise are brought to justice.  I won't hold my breath.

Maybe all the Rangers fans can now support the other Glasgow team... oo:


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## Dodger (Jun 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			From what I gather the SFA "own" the contratcs when the axe falls.
		
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Contracts transfer to Newco as per TUPE ruling.

No matter what the Huns die as their current form on Thursday,no ifs,no buts,no mibees,no panels,no bidders,deed and gone forever this week.

Charles Green just been on the radio saying HMRC have mislead Rangers............you really could not make it up.

I have a couple of quid spare,anyone fancy going halfers on Kirk Broadfoot?


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			As a Hibby who was kinda looking forward to another 'great adventure', I agree.The SPL in it's current guise is stale, it needs dramatic reform.16/18 team league, playing each other twice a season, the removal of the insane all seater requirement ( see what Ross County are having to do), set fixture times in stone, one game Friday night, one game sunday night, the rest at 3pm on Saturday.There is your two TV games.Minimum of 6 home grown players.
Dunfie and your chairman are exactly the kind of club The SPL needs,not the likes of the guy at Killie who'd knock his grannie over to help out the hun.

Plus, your steak bridies are magnificent.
		
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Yorkston sometimes says a bit too much and can occasionally embarrass the club a little but thats what happens when you have a fan running the club and not just a business man, he tends to speak from the heart rather than the head. But he has Dunfermline Athletics best interest at heart and thats the main thing.

And yes the steak bridies are rather good.

I find it quite hilarious watching and reading all these interviews with former Rangers players and board members who all seem to think they have been hard done by and are being picked on. Are they for real or do they really believe that:rofl:


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Always sad to see a football team go to the wall regardless of their size/politics.

I hope those responsible for the demise are brought to justice.  I won't hold my breath.

Maybe all the Rangers fans can now support the other Glasgow team... oo:
		
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I would normally agree with you AW but sorry not in this case.

Rangers have spent millions and millions of other peoples money and avoided paying taxes illegally and have reaped success out of it. They have cheated ever other team in Scotland for the last 15 years or so and deserve every punishment coming to them.


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Contracts transfer to Newco as per TUPE ruling.
		
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Thought it was slightly different with this though, whatever this parrot is dead


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

They transfer over but players can decide if they want to play for newco utd or not


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## DCB (Jun 12, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I have a couple of quid spare,anyone fancy going halfers on Kirk Broadfoot?
		
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That'll leave Â£1.50 change for a bag of chips on your way home then


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## AuburnWarrior (Jun 12, 2012)

smange said:



			I would normally agree with you AW but sorry not in this case.

Rangers have spent millions and millions of other peoples money and avoided paying taxes illegally and have reaped success out of it. They have cheated ever other team in Scotland for the last 15 years or so and deserve every punishment coming to them.
		
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I guess I feel sorry for the fans and those not responsible for the running of the club.  It's not their fault and they run the risk of losing the club that they love.

Those responsible for the non payment of taxes/financial mismanagment need to be brought to task.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 12, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			I guess I feel sorry for the fans and those not responsible for the running of the club.  It's not their fault and they run the risk of losing the club that they love.

Those responsible for the non payment of taxes/financial mismanagment need to be brought to task.
		
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 should the people / players who got money from these loophole schemes  not be liable to pay back taxes. if i don't pay my tax  they chase me to get it back


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 12, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			should the people / players who got money from these loophole schemes  not be liable to pay back taxes. if i don't pay my tax  they chase me to get it back
		
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My understanding (and it's hard to keep up) is that tax was deducted at source but not paid (along with other bills) since Whyte took over so that's on the club rather than its employees. Other allegations may well be borne out in the fullness of time but are currently unproven pending the outcome of the "big tax case". Admittedly, it doesn't look good.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 12, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			I guess I feel sorry for the fans and those not responsible for the running of the club.  It's not their fault and they run the risk of losing the club that they love.

Those responsible for the non payment of taxes/financial mismanagment need to be brought to task.
		
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Thanks AW - the voice of reason.


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## Iaing (Jun 12, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			I guess I feel sorry for the fans and those not responsible for the running of the club.  It's not their fault and they run the risk of losing the club that they love.

Those responsible for the non payment of taxes/financial mismanagment need to be brought to task.
		
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Don't feel sorry for the Rangers fans. They've revelled in the successes gained by cheating and gloated at the rest of Scottish football while doing so.


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## CMAC (Jun 12, 2012)

My grandfather will be turning in his grave- he took me to Ibrox and lifted me over the turnstyles everyweek as an excited 6 year old......

Its sad to see it go this way, these 'business people' I hope will face their responsibilities and justice will be seen to be served.


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## thecraw (Jun 12, 2012)

This is a better storyline than Dallas ever was!

:cheers:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 12, 2012)

As an Englishman with no affiliation and a footie fan in general it has to be a sad day when any club of the heriage of Rangers dies or goes into terminal decline. Whether they go bust and start again at the bottom I feel is open to argument and many a day and more moeny spent arguing this in court


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

thecraw said:



			This is a better storyline than Dallas ever was!

:cheers:
		
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And it will only get better from what I can gather. 



HomerJSimpson said:



			As an Englishman with no affiliation and a footie fan in general it has to be a sad day when any club of the heriage of Rangers dies or goes into terminal decline. Whether they go bust and start again at the bottom I feel is open to argument and many a day and more moeny spent arguing this in court
		
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They were in terminal decline after May 25th 1967. Unfortunately it has taken this long to die.


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## Dodger (Jun 12, 2012)

Ally McCoist - "We don't do walking away" - 16th Feb 2012.
The Taxman - "Neither do we" - 11th June 2012 .:rofl:


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As an Englishman with no affiliation and a footie fan in general it has to be a sad day when any club of the heriage of Rangers dies or goes into terminal decline. Whether they go bust and start again at the bottom I feel is open to argument and many a day and more moeny spent arguing this in court
		
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They havent went into decline. They have run up millions upon millions of debt in unpaid taxes and many other unpaid bills, Breaking laws and cheating their way to titles and cup successes. 

Why not feel sorry for the smaller clubs who have paid their taxes and lived within their means but have suffered relegation and losing out on cup runs that may have brought in much needed money due to losing matches against a Rangers team that shouldnt have been as strong as it was. 

They have been cheating for years and deserve absolutely no sympathy and as has been said their fans have spent many years revelling in their successes and gloating at the rest of Scottish football.


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

Dodger said:



Ally McCoist - "We don't do walking away" - 16th Feb 2012.
The Taxman - "Neither do we" - 11th June 2012 .:rofl:
		
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They'll all be doing walking away because Glasgow taxi cabs won't offer credit


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jun 12, 2012)

It is a total disgrace of a situation, as an example, they owe the Scottish Ambulance Service just over Â£10,000 which they will never see, yet Rangers were rumoured to be offering Rino Gattuso Â£12,000 a week if he returned 

Hopefully they will get the full punishment they deserve, still not convinced they will though.


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## AuburnWarrior (Jun 12, 2012)

smange said:



			They havent went into decline. They have run up millions upon millions of debt in unpaid taxes and many other unpaid bills, Breaking laws and cheating their way to titles and cup successes. 

Why not feel sorry for the smaller clubs who have paid their taxes and lived within their means but have suffered relegation and losing out on cup runs that may have brought in much needed money due to losing matches against a Rangers team that shouldnt have been as strong as it was. 

They have been cheating for years and deserve absolutely no sympathy and as has been said their fans have spent many years revelling in their successes and gloating at the rest of Scottish football.
		
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You can't bracket the fans and the people who run the club together!  The fans probably had no idea that taxes weren't being paid.  The fans would have revelled in the glory because they would have believed that it was a justified victory.

I'm simply stating that it's always the fans that loose out in situations like this.  The men who run the club can walk away, the players can sign for another club but it's the fans who are left to pick up the pieces.


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## Dodger (Jun 12, 2012)

smange said:



			They havent went into decline. They have run up millions upon millions of debt in unpaid taxes and many other unpaid bills, Breaking laws and cheating their way to titles and cup successes. 

Why not feel sorry for the smaller clubs who have paid their taxes and lived within their means but have suffered relegation and losing out on cup runs that may have brought in much needed money due to losing matches against a Rangers team that shouldnt have been as strong as it was. 

They have been cheating for years and deserve absolutely no sympathy and as has been said their fans have spent many years revelling in their successes and gloating at the rest of Scottish football.
		
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What he said.

This,I am led to believe from a pal who has a contact whom is a high level Journo,is only the start,the findings from the EBT's will mean stripping of titles and cups for the horrible peepul followed by action against the man who got them into the mess in the first place Sir Minty Moonbeems.....this is set to get more and more interesting believe me.


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			It is a total disgrace of a situation, as an example, they owe the Scottish Ambulance Service just over Â£10,000 which they will never see, yet Rangers were rumoured to be offering Rino Gattuso Â£12,000 a week if he returned 

Hopefully they will get the full punishment they deserve, still not convinced they will though.
		
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You finished your jelly and ice cream big man?


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			You can't bracket the fans and the people who run the club together!  The fans probably had no idea that taxes weren't being paid.  The fans would have revelled in the glory because they would have believed that it was a justified victory.

I'm simply stating that it's always the fans that loose out in situations like this.  The men who run the club can walk away, the players can sign for another club but it's the fans who are left to pick up the pieces.
		
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AW look up the term "succulent lamb". The media have been brushing these rumours under the carpet for years. RFC* were seen as the "establishment" club and that very culture still exists today, the fans and directors, hell even the administrators, were saying invest in us we have done wrong but don't worry we r ra peepul and it will be alright. I think 10 years ago a director resigned/got booted out and went around trying to tell folk what was going on and he was made out to be some sort of crackpot.


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## Iaing (Jun 12, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As an Englishman with no affiliation and a footie fan in general it has to be a sad day when any club of the heriage of Rangers dies or goes into terminal decline. Whether they go bust and start again at the bottom I feel is open to argument and many a day and more moeny spent arguing this in court
		
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The heritage of Glasgow Rangers is poisonous. It is a club founded upon bigotry which oozes from the blood red brick of the main stand at Ibrox ( named after Bill Struth, the man widely acknowledged with propagating the policy of not signing Roman Catholics ).


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jun 12, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			You can't bracket the fans and the people who run the club together!  The fans probably had no idea that taxes weren't being paid.  The fans would have revelled in the glory because they would have believed that it was a justified victory.

I'm simply stating that it's always the fans that loose out in situations like this.  The men who run the club can walk away, the players can sign for another club but it's the fans who are left to pick up the pieces.
		
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I don't think they cared if the bills were getting paid or not. They were just in party mode buying titles they couldn't afford. They were loosing around Â£30 million a season during the Â£12 million for FLO era :rofl: everyone else knew they were on dodgy ground but Murray was the Hero with his Â£10 for every Â£5 Celtic spend nonsense. I've heard that he'll do 10yrs for every 5yrs Whyte does now :whoo:


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jun 12, 2012)

Valentino said:



			You finished your jelly and ice cream big man?
		
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Too right, I've over-indulged


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## Iaing (Jun 12, 2012)

thecraw said:



			This is a better storyline than Dallas ever was!

:cheers:
		
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I bet the huns wish they could wake up in the shower and discover it's all been a bad dream. :whoo:


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## louise_a (Jun 12, 2012)

This makes interesting reading


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I bet the huns wish they could wake up in the shower and discover it's all been a bad dream. :whoo:
		
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I bet they do :whoo:


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## chris661 (Jun 12, 2012)

louise_a said:



This makes interesting reading

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Some of the finest internet bampottery here as well. Check the dates!


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## smange (Jun 12, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			You can't bracket the fans and the people who run the club together!  The fans probably had no idea that taxes weren't being paid.  The fans would have revelled in the glory because they would have believed that it was a justified victory.

I'm simply stating that it's always the fans that loose out in situations like this.  The men who run the club can walk away, the players can sign for another club but it's the fans who are left to pick up the pieces.
		
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Yes i have certain sympathies for their genuine supporters,  but I also feel that the true Rangers supporters (by true I mean not the glory hunters and the bigots) must be very angry that their club has been subjected to this and probably embarrassed. I know I would be if Dunfermline were in this situation.


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## Val (Jun 12, 2012)

louise_a said:



This makes interesting reading

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Great article


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 12, 2012)

louise_a said:



This makes interesting reading

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Yes, very interesting. I hope the people who caused this get their comeuppance.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 12, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I bet the huns wish they could wake up in the shower and discover it's all been a bad dream. :whoo:
		
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I actually wish people would stop calling us "huns" - I hate that.


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## Dodger (Jun 12, 2012)

This man has been pretty much 100% correct with his journalism throughout and puts clowns like Chick I support St Mirren,no really I do,Young and Jim bullshit Traynor to shame....to think they are considered the top men at the Beeb says it all about the stench that exists within the Scottish game.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/


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## Dodger (Jun 12, 2012)

Breaking news on Sky.......


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## bigslice (Jun 12, 2012)

thecraw said:



			All Rangers players are now free to walk away is that correct????

New company with no players, no European football for 3 years. Cheerio.

Jack and I are going to celebrate tonight, two lumps of ice and a can of coke.
		
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whats that you cant make the texas scramblene:


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## Iaing (Jun 12, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			I actually wish people would stop calling us "huns" - I hate that.
		
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Wow! Rangers fan in nickname indignance shock!!


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## thecraw (Jun 12, 2012)

bigslice said:



			whats that you cant make the texas scramblene:
		
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Don't worry Dave, I'll bring some prozac to lift your spirits!


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## Bomber69 (Jun 13, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I bet the huns wish they could wake up in the shower and discover it's all been a bad dream. :whoo:
		
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Yes I agree that Rangers Football Clube deserve to be punished and what they have done is wrong and as a result all the Celtic fans will be gloating about it and putting the knife in. But lets not forget what went on behind closed doors at Parkhead, dodging tax payments to HMRC is one thing but what was going on with Celtic Football club was far worse and there were them who knew it was going on and done nothing about it. 

So ask yourself this what is worse ?


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## SS2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			So ask yourself this what is worse ?
		
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Can you elaborate on what went on at Celtic ?


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## smange (Jun 13, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Yes I agree that Rangers Football Clube deserve to be punished and what they have done is wrong and as a result all the Celtic fans will be gloating about it and putting the knife in. But lets not forget what went on behind closed doors at Parkhead, dodging tax payments to HMRC is one thing but what was going on with Celtic Football club was far worse and there were them who knew it was going on and done nothing about it. 

So ask yourself this what is worse ?
		
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Oh god here we go with the typical old firm childish finger pointing at each other.

This is a thread about Rangers and how they have cheated for years and years and owe many people millions of pounds. You may not like what your reading about how few people have sympathy for Rangers but please dont start the playground behaviour or this thread will go the same way as the last old firm one and be closed down.

Maybe just maybe if Rangers fans showed a bit of humility in this matter instead of being so aggressive in their clubs defence they may have found some sympathy but as usual no they resort to finger pointing and even worse threatening people. 

Rangers have been caught, now its time to take their punishment like men not go crying to mummy telling tales.


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## Aztecs27 (Jun 13, 2012)

smange said:



			Oh god here we go with the typical old firm childish finger pointing at each other.

This is a thread about Rangers and how they have cheated for years and years and owe many people millions of pounds. You may not like what your reading about how few people have sympathy for Rangers but please *dont start the playground behaviour or this thread will go the same way as the last old firm one and be closed down.*

Maybe just maybe if Rangers fans showed a bit of humility in this matter instead of being so aggressive in their clubs defence they may have found some sympathy but as usual no they resort to finger pointing and even worse threatening people. 

Rangers have been caught, now its time to take their punishment like men not go crying to mummy telling tales.
		
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This is correct.

Then Dodger will start moaning (again) about how we do a terrible job as mods . It's one of life's sure things, like death and taxes


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## Bomber69 (Jun 13, 2012)

smange said:



			Oh god here we go with the typical old firm childish finger pointing at each other.

This is a thread about Rangers and how they have cheated for years and years and owe many people millions of pounds. You may not like what your reading about how few people have sympathy for Rangers but please dont start the playground behaviour or this thread will go the same way as the last old firm one and be closed down.

Maybe just maybe if Rangers fans showed a bit of humility in this matter instead of being so aggressive in their clubs defence they may have found some sympathy but as usual no they resort to finger pointing and even worse threatening people. 

Rangers have been caught, now its time to take their punishment like men not go crying to mummy telling tales.
		
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So would it be better to start another thread about what was going on back then and we could all have our say on what we think about it. There are a few on here with green tinted glasses who seem to forget what went on at their club and it was a whole lot worse than the goings on at Rangers.

Where does the Ice cream &j jelly term come from ?


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## bigslice (Jun 13, 2012)

the gers fans are upset with what has happened to the club and rightly so. it wasnt the gers fans that caused it, it was the people running it and the people ADVISING ON TAX ISSUES. what went on behind closed doors at celtic thats up to them and nothing to do with rangers.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 13, 2012)

what went on behind closed doors at celtic thats up to them and nothing to do with rangers.[/QUOTE]

Your right it was nothing to do with Rangers but it was against the law and what is worse is that it was covered up..................


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## smange (Jun 13, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			So would it be better to start another thread about what was going on back then and we could all have our say on what we think about it. There are a few on here with green tinted glasses who seem to forget what went on at their club and it was a whole lot worse than the goings on at Rangers.

Where does the Ice cream &j jelly term come from ?
		
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If you want to start a thread about it go ahead.

And no green tinted specs here, as the avatar will tell you Dunfermline Athletic supporter here and someone who has a very even dislike of both sides of the old firm. Maybe if Rangers had fielded a team in line with their finances this season like Dunfermline did and paid their taxes, we might have taken some points off them and avoided relegation but as it is they didnt, they instead cheated us and every team in the league and whoever they beat in cup competitions and that is why people have no sympathy.


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## palindromicbob (Jun 13, 2012)

Let's face it. This is the most exciting thing to happen in the SPL for a few years.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 13, 2012)

smange said:



			If you want to start a thread about it go ahead.

And no green tinted specs here, as the avatar will tell you Dunfermline Athletic supporter here and someone who has a very even dislike of both sides of the old firm. Maybe if Rangers had fielded a team in line with their finances this season like Dunfermline did and paid their taxes, we might have taken some points off them and avoided relegation but as it is they didnt, they instead cheated us and every team in the league and whoever they beat in cup competitions and that is why people have no sympathy.
		
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I understand your views and having roots in Dunfermline can see where you are coming from but all I can see so far is the green brigade taking the moral high ground about what has been going on with Rangers FC yet they forget their past history, one which is surround in scandal and cover ups.


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## bluewolf (Jun 13, 2012)

Just for interests sake, as I have no vested interests whatsoever, but if Rangers were holding back so much money from everyone, how did Celtic manage to compete with them? Apologies if this is a stupid question, I haven't looked into this situation too much as I don't like to revel in others misfortunes.


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## Val (Jun 13, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			I understand your views and having roots in Dunfermline can see where you are coming from but all I can see so far is the green brigade taking the moral high ground about what has been going on with Rangers FC yet they forget their past history, one which is surround in scandal and cover ups.
		
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No moral high ground here, the man at the centre of it was punished and rightly so and it is a horrid stane on our club and one that will never be forgotten.

The moral high ground is being taken by the many Rangers fans who insist the 2 men running the club into the ground had nothing to do with the club therefore the club shouldn't be punished.

Jelly and Ice cream is for parties, Celtic fans are partying now that Rangers have died. :whoo:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 13, 2012)

Can't believe I'm coming back into this car crash of a thread.....



Valentino said:



			No moral high ground here, the man at the centre of it was punished and rightly so and it is a horrid stane on our club and one that will never be forgotten.
		
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A terrible thing but in the past and not something that should have been dredged up here. A few other things that also shouldn't have been mentioned but, hey ho, it's the old firm - what do you expect?



Valentino said:



			The moral high ground is being taken by the many Rangers fans who insist the 2 men running the club into the ground had nothing to do with the club therefore the club shouldn't be punished.
		
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In my mind, I differentiate between Murray and Whyte in this. The mistakes and sins of the Murray era cannot be divorced from the club. He ran it for a long time and, ignorant of what was happening behind the scenes, we loved it. It sounds like the outcome of various investigations will go badly (nothing proven yet) and, if so, the club will deserve everything it gets.

Whyte came in and ran the club into the ground from day 1, purposefully and deliberately so. I do find it harsh that we're told, in effect, that what he did was our own fault so we deserve more punishment.

For everyone that doesn't think Rangers are being punished please wake up - liquidation! The club has died that's the greatest punishment possible.



Valentino said:



			Jelly and Ice cream is for parties, Celtic fans are partying now that Rangers have died. :whoo:
		
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I hate you.


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## Val (Jun 13, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			I hate you. 

Click to expand...

Thanks for that :whoo:


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2012)

And it continues...the press still refuse to blame those who deserve to be blamed but choose to put the Taxman slant on it,again,you couldny make it up.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 13, 2012)

Dodger said:



			And it continues...the press still refuse to blame those who deserve to be blamed but choose to put the Taxman slant on it,again,you couldny make it up.






Click to expand...

I thought you would read a better paper than that dodger.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I thought you would read a better paper than that dodger.
		
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I didn't.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 13, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I thought you would read a better paper than that dodger.
		
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Sorry meant to say comic.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 13, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			There are a few on here with green tinted glasses who seem to forget what went on at their club and it was a whole lot worse than the goings on at Rangers.
		
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If I'm reading between the lines correctly, that's a pretty sinister and underhand post.

Anyone else heard about the super injunction and SDM and TK and the SA authorities?


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## chris661 (Jun 13, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			If I'm reading between the lines correctly, that's a pretty sinister and underhand post.

Anyone else heard about the super injunction and SDM and TK and the SA authorities?
		
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Yup and if what I heard was true then there will be jail time and much hand wringing done.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 13, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Yup and if what I heard was true then there will be jail time and much hand wringing done.
		
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Correct, reckon it will put the demise of der bosch in the shade and her maj will have to revoke certain titles!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 13, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Anyone else heard about the super injunction and SDM and TK and the SA authorities?
		
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Not heard this.... do tell. TK?


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## chris661 (Jun 13, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not heard this.... do tell. TK?
		
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I think he means Dave King the South African tax dodger and some Scottish companies...........


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 13, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I think he means Dave King the South African tax dodger and some Scottish companies...........
		
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I thought as much. But what's the Murray link to DK's tax problems in SA?


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## chris661 (Jun 13, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			I thought as much. But what's the Murray link to DK's tax problems in SA?
		
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He was apparently fudging the amount of ore/metal bought to avoid paying the tax (DM that is) thrugh one of DK companies :rofl:


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I thought you would read a better paper than that dodger.
		
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It's no my picture.....honest.The only things I read are Golf Monthly and Big Jugs Monthly.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 13, 2012)

chris661 said:



			He was apparently fudging the amount of ore/metal bought to avoid paying the tax (DM that is) thrugh one of DK companies :rofl:
		
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Ouch! Rangers will be the least of his worries then.....


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## birdieman (Jun 13, 2012)

BBC docu next week will reveal more.

As an aside if trophies get stripped from Rangers over the past 20 years then Aberdeen will have 2 more Scottish Cups and another League Cup to their name. Doesn't seem right does it and do the players who wore the Gers shirts back then have to hand over their winners medals to the Aberdeen squad from 1993 and 2000?


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## chris661 (Jun 13, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ouch! Rangers will be the least of his worries then.....
		
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Not if he was using the RFC* corporate vehicle.......


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 13, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not heard this.... do tell. TK?
		
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chris661 said:



			I think he means Dave King the South African tax dodger and some Scottish companies...........
		
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apologies, aye Dave King.

Was sent a pretty interesting email a couple of weeks ago, wouldn't put it on an open forum as GM would be liable for hosting it.Pretty explosive stuff!


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## Val (Jun 13, 2012)

birdieman said:



			BBC docu next week will reveal more.

As an aside if trophies get stripped from Rangers over the past 20 years then Aberdeen will have 2 more Scottish Cups and another League Cup to their name. Doesn't seem right does it and do the players who wore the Gers shirts back then have to hand over their winners medals to the Aberdeen squad from 1993 and 2000?
		
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If they get stripped of said trophies (and it's likely to be back untill 2000 at furthest) they wont be reallocated to the runners up.

Can you imagine the thought of Celtic currently sitting on 12 in a row


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## Iaing (Jun 13, 2012)

If Rangers get stripped of the honours gained through cheating, will the clubs who would otherwise have qualified for Europe be able to sue for loss of earnings?


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## Val (Jun 13, 2012)

Iaing said:



			If Rangers get stripped of the honours gained through cheating, will the clubs who would otherwise have qualified for Europe be able to sue for loss of earnings?
		
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Nobody to sue, the club has died


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 13, 2012)

Dodger said:



			It's no my picture.....honest.The only things I read are Golf Monthly and Big Jugs Monthly.

Click to expand...

I would have thought that big huns monthly and Celts in kilts would be more your bag.


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## wrighty1874 (Jun 13, 2012)

smange said:



			We all know that the SPL, SFA, SFL and any other governing body of Scottish football that has bent over backward over the years to keep Rangers and Celtic happy will bend the rules and/or invent new ones to make sure any Newco Rangers will be playing in the SPL next season.

They should be relegated to the third division just like any of the so called "wee teams" would have been if they had CHEATED for years like Rangers have.


If, sorry, WHEN the Newco Rangers are allowed to play in the SPL again next season it will be the final nail in the coffin for Scottish football. There are many fans of many other clubs ready to turn their backs on Scottish football if Rangers get away with this and I for one will never attend another game in Scotland.
		
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I've got a mate in Dunfermline, who goes to watch Liverpool every week with some lads from Falkirk and Edinburgh, because they're sick of scottish football. They've been season ticket holders since 2004.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 13, 2012)

wrighty1874 said:



			I've got a mate in Dunfermline, who goes to watch Liverpool every week with some lads from Falkirk and Edinburgh, because they're sick of scottish football. They've been season ticket holders since 2004.
		
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They have my sympathies.


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## wrighty1874 (Jun 13, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			They have my sympathies. 

Click to expand...

you're right there. I've been to a couple of games with him and both matches were not as Andy Gray and Richard Keys described them!!


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## Iaing (Jun 13, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Nobody to sue, the club has died
		
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They might have a case against the SFA who actually enter the qualifying clubs into European competition.


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Breaking news this morning that is a real disaster for us Tims....Fat Ally is gone.

Disaster,the man who masqueraded as a Manager has jumped ship.

No doubt the press will right obituaries about how he did a fantastic job for the club and deflect the fact he was a total bombscare of a gaffer.

It's the best news the Huns have had in ages.


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## CMAC (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Breaking news this morning that is a real disaster for us Tims....Fat Ally is gone.
		
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wonder where to? is there a new season of 'A question of sport' on the cards


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## HughJars (Jun 14, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			I understand your views and having roots in Dunfermline can see where you are coming from but all I can see so far is the green brigade taking the moral high ground about what has been going on with Rangers FC yet they forget their past history, one which is surround in scandal and cover ups.
		
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All you can see is the green brigade?

Christ almighty, how many times does in need spelling out to the old firm, not everything, indeed most things are not either a Rangers view, or a Celtic view. 

There are dozens of other clubs in this country, and the overwhelming majority of those fans are absolutely disgusted at the uncovering of prolonged cheating from Rangers, which has been compounded by the reaction of the club and fans who have offered not one ounce of apology or contrition, but instead have looked to blame eveyrone but themselves. 

The most ironic thing of all though, is the pointing to all things Celtic for every decison that now goes (quite rightly) against Cheats oldco, because every institution in this country is apparently anti-Rangers, despite the clear uncovering of evidence during this appalling cheating scandal that everything has been done to favour Cheats Oldco. The fact that one beneficiary of an illegal EBT from Cheats Oldco is still on the SFA board, and refuses to stand down, and has not even been asked to stand down, says all you need to know about who has and continues to run Scottish football (but not for much longer thankfully)


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			All you can see is the green brigade?

Christ almighty, how many times does in need spelling out to the old firm, not everything, indeed most things are not either a Rangers view, or a Celtic view. 

There are dozens of other clubs in this country, and the overwhelming majority of those fans are absolutely disgusted at the uncovering of prolonged cheating from Rangers, which has been compounded by the reaction of the club and fans who have offered not one ounce of apology or contrition, but instead have looked to blame eveyrone but themselves. 

The most ironic thing of all though, is the pointing to all things Celtic for every decison that now goes (quite rightly) against Cheats oldco, because every institution in this country is apparently anti-Rangers, despite the clear uncovering of evidence during this appalling cheating scandal that everything has been done to favour Cheats Oldco. The fact that one beneficiary of an illegal EBT from Cheats Oldco is still on the SFA board, and refuses to stand down, and has not even been asked to stand down, says all you need to know about who has and continues to run Scottish football (but not for much longer thankfully)
		
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Where's the applause smilie?


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## Aztecs27 (Jun 14, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Where's the applause smilie?
		
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:clap:?


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## smange (Jun 14, 2012)

I heard Graham Roberts on Talksport Radio earlier with Alan Brazil and the arrogance of these Rangers people is beyond belief, he says that the chairmen of the other SPL clubs with definitely vote to allow Newco to play in the SPL because they need them, Scottish football needs old firm derbies. 

I hope these same chairmen have budgeted for the loss of a lot of their own supporters if they do vote for Newco as feelings are running strong within football supporters in Scotland and many have vowed never to return to the game.

Any TV money gained from voting Newco will no doubt be lost from supporters walking away and if this generation of fans walk away and stop taking their kids to games then it will have a massive knock on affect for generations to come.

A no to Newco vote could be the start of something good for Scottish football but a yes vote will be the final nail in the coffin I feel.


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## HughJars (Jun 14, 2012)

Reported in the P&J today that Aberdeen have listened to their fans, and WILL vote NO to newco. Hibs are nailed on as a no, Arkwright seems like he's now also been swayed to the no camp, and there's a huge surge up Inverness way against their pro-Hun chairman, so they may have to about face too. 

You can't see Mad Vlad voting any other way than to kick out one of the 'mafia' as he called them. And the St mirren gadgie was absolutely raging when interviewed after Cheats Oldco won their appeal to the court of session.

I just can't see where Cheats Newco can possibly get 8 votes?

They're gone, but is there a real possiblity that they may cease to exist compeltely, never mnind as just a reincarnated 'newco'?


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## smange (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			Reported in the P&J today that Aberdeen have listened to their fans, and WILL vote NO to newco. Hibs are nailed on as a no, Arkwright seems like he's now also been swayed to the no camp, and there's a huge surge up Inverness way against their pro-Hun chairman, so they may have to about face too. 

You can't see Mad Vlad voting any other way than to kick out one of the 'mafia' as he called them. And the St mirren gadgie was absolutely raging when interviewed after Cheats Oldco won their appeal to the court of session.

I just can't see where Cheats Newco can possibly get 8 votes?

They're gone, but is there a real possiblity that they may cease to exist compeltely, never mnind as just a reincarnated 'newco'?
		
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Yep, read the Aberdeen statement but really all they say is that they will listen to their fans and consider the fans feelings when making a decision, still not coming out and saying NO, I think they and the others are waiting to see what deal can be brokered and to see if thers a few quid to be made before committing. Then we will see what their stance on the "integrity of sport and football" is. 

Isnt it funny how the SPL voting rules of needing an 11 to 1 majority have all of a sudden change to 8 to 4 as well?

Even more cheating and bending over backwards from the powers that be.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			The fact that one beneficiary of an illegal EBT from Cheats Oldco is still on the SFA board, and refuses to stand down, and has not even been asked to stand down, says all you need to know about who has and continues to run Scottish football (but not for much longer thankfully)
		
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I think you should save your righteous indignation over this until we actually find out the verdict from the court case regarding EBTs.  OK, it looks bad but don't jump the gun. But was it conscious and deliberate "cheating" or taking a reckless risk and following bad advice? It's not like they were they only team to try these.....

My personal opinion, and don't jump on me - I am genuinely embarrassed at what's happened (although not the first time I've been embarrassed supporting an old firm team) - is that had Rangers managed the CVA they should have been welcome back in the SPL and helped by the SFA and other SPL clubs to get back on their feet.

However, since it's a newco, I don't feel it's Rangers any more. The newco should go into division 3 and be helped and supported by the SFA and SFL. As you would hope for any other club, if you can set aside your bitterness for a few minutes.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

smange said:



			Isnt it funny how the SPL voting rules of needing an 11 to 1 majority have all of a sudden change to 8 to 4 as well?

Even more cheating and bending over backwards from the powers that be.
		
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Have never understood the bizarre SPL voting rules - it has always seemed 11 - 1 for some things and varying splits for others. Think you should rein in your paranoia just a little bit.....

Hopefully one good thing to come from this might be getting a bit more democracy into the SPL.


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			However, since it's a newco, I don't feel it's Rangers any more. The newco should go into division 3 and be helped and supported by the SFA and SFL. As you would hope for any other club, *if you can set aside your bitterness for a few minutes.*

Click to expand...

NOTHING to do with bitterness RFC* have spent upwards of Â£150m of money they never had over the last 20 years trying to stay as the "most successful club". How did that work out? I can remember when celtic were hours away from going bust there was no mention of Scotland needing a strong old firm then was there? I even remember sleekit sally saying meh whatever, yet now everybody is supposed to bend over and help them? 

Scottish football doesn't need rangers or celtic it WILL continue albeit on a reduced scale but it will be honest. I know which I would rather have as a Scottish football fan.


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

I really hope they listen to the fans but I really doubt they will.

97% of Aberdeen fans voted no on an online vote recently....I think that says it all.

The only way a no will be had is if the rumours are correct about the other underhand stuff the establishment have been up to are indeed true....

Sadly though I am willing to bet that the wishes of the fans will be tossed aside and that will be the beginning of the end for football in our country I feel.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

chris661 said:



			NOTHING to do with bitterness RFC* have spent upwards of Â£150m of money they never had over the last 20 years trying to stay as the "most successful club". How did that work out? *I can remember when celtic were hours away from going bust there was no mention of Scotland needing a strong old firm then was there?* I even remember sleekit sally saying meh whatever, yet now everybody is supposed to bend over and help them? 

Scottish football doesn't need rangers or celtic it WILL continue albeit on a reduced scale but it will be honest. I know which I would rather have as a Scottish football fan.
		
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Errm.... actually there was. I was one of those that said it - which I haven't felt able to say when it was my club in trouble for fear of abuse or ridicule. And plenty of media commentators were saying the same. Do you really believe all the scottish press love Rangers and hate Celtic? Come off it.

My memory isn't good enough to produce quotes or challenge any you claim to have and neither do I remember Celtic getting the kicking from all quarters that Rangers have had over the last few months.

The newco isn't Rangers, it might call itself Rangers but it's a new entity. They've had the ultimate punishment. Put them in Div 3 and then lay off them, give them a chance.... to continue to put the boot in is definitely bitterness.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			97% of Aberdeen fans voted no on an online vote recently....I think that says it all.
		
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If Rangers had been paragons of virtue Aberdeen fans would still have voted the same way. I can only imagine the other 3% didn't understand the question......


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Errm.... actually there was. I was one of those that said it - which I haven't felt able to say when it was my club in trouble for fear of abuse or ridicule. And plenty of media commentators were saying the same. Do you really believe all the scottish press love Rangers and hate Celtic? Come off it.

My memory isn't good enough to produce quotes or challenge any you claim to have and neither do I remember Celtic getting the kicking from all quarters that Rangers have had over the last few months.

The newco isn't Rangers, it might call itself Rangers but it's a new entity. They've had the ultimate punishment. Put them in Div 3 and then lay off them, give them a chance.... to continue to put the boot in is definitely bitterness.
		
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A herse parked outside Paradise and pictured over the media as opposed to a floral wreath on a coffin while blaming the Taxman would suggest Chris may have a point.

I'm bitter about it alright and I am going to enjoy it make no mistake of that.:ears:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			A herse parked outside Paradise and pictured over the media as opposed to a floral wreath on a coffin while blaming the Taxman would suggest Chris may have a point.

I'm bitter about it alright and I am going to enjoy it make no mistake of that.:ears:
		
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In truth, Rangers and Celtic have large supports with diverse opinions. Some are empathetic and supportive - others delight in their rival's distress and wish them ill.

I'm gutted that it looks like I need to become a Hibbee.....  but I certainly don't wish the same fate on anyone else's club.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			A herse parked outside Paradise and pictured over the media as opposed to a floral wreath on a coffin while blaming the Taxman would suggest Chris may have a point.
		
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Seems pretty similar imagery to me. Don't think the taxman was involved in Celtic's brush with insolvency? Sorry don't really remember the details.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			I just can't see where Cheats Newco can possibly get 8 votes?
		
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Not wanting to give you guys another line of attack but the SPL voting rules really are bizarre. OK we know they have an 8-4 split for the "New Rangers in the SPL" vote, but I've seen it explained in both the following ways:

* They need 8 votes to be admitted to the SPL (as you imply)
* 8 votes would be required to relegate Rangers from the SPL (i.e. they only need 4 votes to stay)

No axe to grind here - I vote for Div 3 - but they really need to sort out the voting method going forward.


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## HughJars (Jun 14, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not wanting to give you guys another line of attack but the SPL voting rules really are bizarre. OK we know they have an 8-4 split for the "New Rangers in the SPL" vote, but I've seen it explained in both the following ways:

* They need 8 votes to be admitted to the SPL (as you imply)
* 8 votes would be required to relegate Rangers from the SPL (i.e. they only need 4 votes to stay)

No axe to grind here - I vote for Div 3 - but they really need to sort out the voting method going forward.
		
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There's no vote to relegate them. They have ceased to exist. 

They think they can apply as Cheats Newco FC to the SPL, which in theory is true, becasue the SFL is a seprate entity. In order to be allowed INTO the SPL, they would need an 8-3 majority, the other vote being their own now lost vote that will have died with Cheats Oldco.


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			There's no vote to relegate them. They have ceased to exist. 

They think they can apply as Cheats Newco FC to the SPL, which in theory is true, becasue the SFL is a seprate entity. In order to be allowed INTO the SPL, they would need an 8-3 majority, the other vote being their own now lost vote that will have died with Cheats Oldco.
		
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Their vote is not lost,they have a vote.... bizarrely.


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## CMAC (Jun 14, 2012)

Have I heard correctly, the new company is The Rangers Football Club Ltd?
Also heard theres a new manager announced or about to be, heard the name but meant nothing to me (not that well versed in Scottish football)


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jun 14, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			wonder where to? is there a new season of 'A question of sport' on the cards

Click to expand...

He'd only spoil it by demanding to know who the mystery guests are :rofl:


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			He'd only spoil it by demanding to know who the mystery guests are :rofl:
		
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:rofl::rofl::thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 14, 2012)

Does anyone know the history/criteria of how Berwick rangers play in the Scottish leagues? Maybe even Cardiff/Wrexham/Swansea.

They obviously have addresses in their own respective countries, but play in others. Could this whole thing be turned on its head by the newco applying to the English leagues?

Ok it may take Rangers 7-8 seasons to get to the top division (if all successive promotions), but it would take them 3 to get to the top in Scotland anyway. Once they were in the Chamionship or division one, their income would probably be the same as now anyway.

Interesting (scratches, chin).


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Ok it may take Rangers 7-8 seasons to get to the top division (if all successive promotions), but it would take them 3 to get to the top in Scotland anyway. Once they were in the Chamionship or division one, their income would probably be the same as now anyway.

Interesting (scratches, chin).
		
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I doubt, that after he ransacking of Manchester, that RFC would be welcome anywhere! I have even seen that the teams in the third division don't want them :rofl:


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## HughJars (Jun 14, 2012)

Liverbirdie, the English FA changed their rules a couple years back when the ugly sisters mooted moving down south, it is now not possible to play there if your team/town is not physically within England. Obviously that excluded existing teams.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 14, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			They obviously have addresses in their own respective countries, but play in others. Could this whole thing be turned on its head by the newco applying to the English leagues?

Ok it may take Rangers 7-8 seasons to get to the top division (if all successive promotions), but it would take them 3 to get to the top in Scotland anyway. Once they were in the Chamionship or division one, their income would probably be the same as now anyway.

Interesting (scratches, chin).
		
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 I was thinking the same , was afraid to ask ha ha as subject gets a bit emotive every time its brought up ,


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## bladeplayer (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			Liverbirdie, the English FA changed their rules a couple years back when the ugly sisters mooted moving down south, it is now not possible to play there if your team/town is not physically within England. Obviously that excluded existing teams.
		
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 that answers my question , sorry HJ was typing & phone rang so my post overlapped your reply


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			Liverbirdie, the English FA changed their rules a couple years back when the ugly sisters mooted moving down south, it is now not possible to play there if your team/town is not physically within England. Obviously that excluded existing teams.
		
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Thanks, I didn't know they had done that. I know they had a vote (premiership only??) but didn't know that they had changed their constituition/rules about this.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 14, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			I was thinking the same , was afraid to ask ha ha as subject gets a bit emotive every time its brought up ,
		
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Yes, I try to tread delicately, also.


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## bigslice (Jun 14, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thanks, I didn't know they had done that. I know they had a vote (premiership only??) but didn't know that they had changed their constituition/rules about this.
		
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theres a glasgow college in luton:whoo:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

HughJars said:



			There's no vote to relegate them. They have ceased to exist. 

They think they can apply as Cheats Newco FC to the SPL, which in theory is true, becasue the SFL is a seprate entity. In order to be allowed INTO the SPL, they would need an 8-3 majority, the other vote being their own now lost vote that will have died with Cheats Oldco.
		
Click to expand...

Not stating otherwise, just highlighting the confusion surrounding this... the 8 votes to relegate concept was from one of this morning's papers and it surprised me - I was with you on the 8 votes to get in idea.

I think it a bit unfair to insist on "Cheats Newco".... it's a new company and the only upside to that is it should start with a clean slate with the sins (and triumphs for that matter) of the oldco ("Cheats Oldco" if you insist) expunged. Don't expect anyone to agree with me though! :lol:


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

It's actually Achilles who wins that fight.... and the one against Hector is later on..... which Achilles wins as well....

Kind Regards,
Pedant Girl


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's actually Achilles who wins that fight.... and the one against Hector is later on..... which Achilles wins as well....

Kind Regards,
Pedant Girl



Click to expand...

Not to worry unlike Rangers its not a true representation of history


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			He'd only spoil it by demanding to know who the mystery guests are :rofl:
		
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Fair play - good one! :lol:


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Shrewd move from Watty's lot, playing the loyal Hun card.

Fully expect Ally to do his walking away to yet again become Watty's bitch.

I can only presume neither have anything to answer re EBT's or this is a strange manoeuvre.

I'm looking forward to Walter Smith, the man who said that the SPL would thrive without Rangers if they went to England, explaining why  the SPL desperately needs newco Rangers in their league.


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## smange (Jun 14, 2012)

Anyone else thinking this is a great opportunity for Rangers newco to rid itself of everything that is/was horrible about Rangers and completely distance itself from its sectarian and bigoted past. They might just pick up a few new fans if they took a stance and said from the outset that singing sectarian songs, loyalist paraphernalia and other nonsense wouldnt be tolerated at all by the new club, not in the way that previous owners just denied it ever existed but really set out to tackle the problem.

Maybe then they would find themselves a little more welcome in other towns and cities around Scotland


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## Val (Jun 14, 2012)

We discussed this at work, was it not the case that clubs had to have 3 years of audited accounts to enter the football league in Scotland?


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## smange (Jun 14, 2012)

Being a Rangers fan must be like playing Championship Manager for 140 years and forgetting to save your game         :rofl:


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

Valentino said:



			We discussed this at work, was it not the case that clubs had to have 3 years of audited accounts to enter the football league in Scotland?
		
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Supposedly...........


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## thecraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I really hope they listen to the fans but I really doubt they will.

97% of Aberdeen fans voted no on an online vote recently....I think that says it all.

The only way a no will be had is if the rumours are correct about the other underhand stuff the establishment have been up to are indeed true....

Sadly though I am willing to bet that the wishes of the fans will be tossed aside and that will be the beginning of the end for football in our country I feel.
		
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It doesn't really tell you anything.

Aberdeen and Rangers have history and Aberdeen fans take great delight in signing _"We hate Rangers more than you" _when at Parkhead or playing Celtic.

Its just typical Glasgow media trying to sh*+ stir.


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## thecraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Breaking news this morning that is a real disaster for us Tims....Fat Ally is gone.

*Disaster,the man who masqueraded as a Manager has jumped ship.*

No doubt the press will right obituaries about how he did a fantastic job for the club and deflect the fact he was a total bombscare of a gaffer.

It's the best news the Huns have had in ages.
		
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Pot and kettle springs to mind.


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

thecraw said:



			It doesn't really tell you anything.

Aberdeen and Rangers have history and Aberdeen fans take great delight in signing _"We hate Rangers more than you" _when at Parkhead or playing Celtic.

Its just typical Glasgow media trying to sh*+ stir.
		
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Christ you sound like a Hun.

In the real world it's a fair reflection along with Killie,Hibs,Hearts and all......try checking out the facts Crawford,these findings are not taken from the press.....


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## thecraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Christ you sound like a Hun.

In the real world it's a fair reflection along with Killie,Hibs,Hearts and all......try checking out the facts Crawford,these findings are not taken from the press.....
		
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Facts are an online survey that represents something like 5% of the Aberdeen support carried out by an internet site. 

So how exactly do I sound like a 4th century nomadic warrior???


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Facts are an online survey that represents something like 5% of the Aberdeen support carried out by an internet site. 

So how exactly do I sound like a 4th century nomadic warrior???
		
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Errr accusing the medhia of stirring.

The hatred currently running for der huns goes deeper than 5% of sheep or us Tims.

You may not agree but here's a tip for you,Dodger kens.


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## thecraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Its not about hatred unless you want to turn it into hatred.

I agree that sanctions and punishments need to be imposed.


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## AMcC (Jun 14, 2012)

Valentino said:



			We discussed this at work, was it not the case that clubs had to have 3 years of audited accounts to enter the football league in Scotland?
		
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Apparently not mandatory, only a recommendation


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 14, 2012)

bigslice said:



			theres a glasgow college in luton:whoo:
		
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Lesson 1 - How to urinate in an entry.

Lesson 2 - How to claim for an essential video recorder of the social.

Lesson 3 - How to re-design Manchester, without construction workers involvement.

Lesson 4 - oh, you get the drift.

Only joking BTW, as a citizen of another badly stereotyped city, I know the truth.

By the way, what is ra peepul, with regards to Rangers?


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			By the way, what is ra peepul, with regards to Rangers?
		
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It is the "establishment" mentality along with part of the sectarian aspect of Celtic fans/players were predominately of Irish heritage, of which I have first hand experience of being asked which school I went too when I went for several job interviews when leaving school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRzVaBZscBA&feature=related 1m40s in is when it starts to explain a little


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 14, 2012)

chris661 said:



			It is the "establishment" mentality along with part of the sectarian aspect of Celtic fans/players were predominately of Irish heritage, of which I have first hand experience of being asked which school I went too when I went for several job interviews when leaving school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRzVaBZscBA&feature=related 1m40s in is when it starts to explain a little
		
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Thanks Chris, listened to all of it and enlightening, although highly polarised arguments on both sides.

Coming from a similarly divided city, I know a lot of the language/customs/history/heritage of both sides, but I'm not familiar with "ra peepul". Is it s protestant thing, or I presume just a Rangers thing.

Moyes come out with EFC being "the people's club" in Liverpool (which is b####cks), is this a similair thing, or is to do with rangers being a bastion of conservative/protestant/establishment heritage.

I asked a fella in work a few weeks ago who is unbelievably "orange" (his father was a top.guy in the Liverpool based orange order, on an international level), and he said he hadn't heard of it, but mentioned he had heard of "ra purple", but he said he couldn't go into it (highly secretive). Anyone heard of this either?


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Thanks Chris, listened to all of it and enlightening, although highly polarised arguments on both sides.

Coming from a similarly divided city, I know a lot of the language/customs/history/heritage of both sides, but I'm not familiar with "ra peepul". Is it s protestant thing, or I presume just a Rangers thing.

Moyes come out with EFC being "the people's club" in Liverpool (which is b####cks), is this a similair thing, or is to do with rangers being a bastion of conservative/protestant/establishment heritage.

I asked a fella in work a few weeks ago who is unbelievably "orange" (his father was a top.guy in the Liverpool based orange order, on an international level), and he said he hadn't heard of it, but mentioned he had heard of "ra purple", but he said he couldn't go into it (highly secretive). Anyone heard of this either?
		
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Ra Purple comes from the fact that all the Rangers fans are bell ends.:lol:


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## Bomber69 (Jun 14, 2012)

Seems like the Taig's are all on form tonight what's wrong have you no potatoes to eat.

Get a life the Queens Eleven will be back so enjoy for now.


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Seems like the Taig's are all on form tonight what's wrong have you no potatoes to eat.

Get a life the *Queens Eleven *will be back so enjoy for now.
		
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Oh the irony.:rofl:

Your team is deed,no more,gone and it is awfully pleasing to hear.:whoo:


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## Bomber69 (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Oh the irony.:rofl:

YyYour team is deed,no more,gone and it is awfully pleasing to hear.:whoo:
		
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Watch this space and keep eating the spuds.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

chris661 said:



			It is the "establishment" mentality along with part of the sectarian aspect of Celtic fans/players were predominately of Irish heritage, of which I have first hand experience of being asked which school I went too when I went for several job interviews when leaving school.
		
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Sadly it cuts both ways. I started a job years ago and new colleagues commented that I was the only protestant (actually I'm an athiest FWIW - couldn't care less about protestant/catholic nonsense) the manager there had ever employed. In an unguarded moment after I mentioned supporting Rangers he remarked "I thought you were a tim?". He wasn't joking.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 14, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Sadly it cuts both ways. I started a job years ago and new colleagues commented that I was the only protestant (actually I'm an athiest FWIW - couldn't care less about protestant/catholic nonsense) the manager there had ever employed. In an unguarded moment after I mentioned supporting Rangers he remarked "I thought you were a tim?". He wasn't joking.
		
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They are the worst kind.....


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Watch this space and keep eating the spuds.
		
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I am not of Irish origin,anything but,Church of Scotland Proddy and do like potatoes in fact had them with mince tonight thanks.:smirk:

Everything that is wrong with football in Scotland.Hopefully with one gone the second may clean up and the new club may take an opportunity to clean things up also.

Hugely doubtful tho as it's not just the OF that have sectarian problems in Scottish Football no matter what the other diddy teams tell you.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I am not of Irish origin,anything but,Church of Scotland Proddy and do like potatoes in fact had them with mince tonight thanks.:smirk:

Everything that is wrong with football in Scotland.Hopefully with one gone the second may clean up and the new club may take an opportunity to clean things up also.

Hugely doubtful tho as it's not just the OF that have sectarian problems in Scottish Football no matter what the other diddy teams tell you.
		
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Oh do I detect a slight change of direction here, yes it does go further but TBH this thread is full of Tim's spouting venom. 

What went on at Rangers was wrong and they deserve to be punished I agree but for F S let's leave the religion out off it.


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## Yer Maw (Jun 14, 2012)

Coming from a similarly divided city, I know a lot of the language/customs/history/heritage of both sides, but I'm not familiar with "ra peepul". Is it s protestant thing, or I presume just a Rangers thing.

Sorry mate the divided city comparrison is not comparable at all.  I lived in Liverpool for 6 years and kids in the same family would support one or the other, you could wear a red or blue top and not get chased down the street because some nutters thought you were an Blue or Red etc. etc.  The division and hatred between Celtic and Rangers has no comparison in the UK and not something I'm proud of being Scottish.  The Scouse acceptance of one another with good banter and the occasional dafty was quite good and what I'd rather have any day.  They are a scourge on Scotland and I wish both the Old Firm would sod off but we're stuck with them as no-one else wants their nonsense.  The whole Scottish game is screwed and they're the guilty party.  The vast majority of no old firm fans think like that and want Rengers demoted to the lowest league possible and treated like all the others who go into liquidation.  If it doesn't happen like that then what is already a dire situation will finally be killed off for many moons.


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Seems like the Taig's are all on form tonight what's wrong have you no potatoes to eat.

Get a life the Queens Eleven will be back so enjoy for now.
		
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There you go liverbirdie up pops one of "ra peepul" to explain it all in two easy sentances.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

smange said:



			Anyone else thinking this is a great opportunity for Rangers newco to rid itself of everything that is/was horrible about Rangers and completely distance itself from its sectarian and bigoted past. They might just pick up a few new fans if they took a stance and said from the outset that singing sectarian songs, loyalist paraphernalia and other nonsense wouldnt be tolerated at all by the new club, not in the way that previous owners just denied it ever existed but really set out to tackle the problem.
		
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Actually smange (while I don't entirely agree with your assessment that the previous owners did nothing on this) I've been thinking much the same and I dearly hope that "New Rangers" adopt an absolute zero tolerance approach to this. If they can eliminate sectarianism from the club altogether this whole sad affair will have been worth it.

Sadly, even if they try it (which they must, I hope) I don't believe it will succeed for a few reasons:

Firstly, and sadly, I think there's a hardcore of bigots who won't easily let it go.

Secondly a combination of things:

* so many people are too "anti-Rangers" to cut them some slack and accept they've moved on. They'll keep casting historical issues up.
* despite drawing a line under the sectarianism, the "New Rangers" will almost certainly attempt to retain a link with the "good" aspects of "Old Rangers" - the titles won etc. That will just give the "anti-Rangers" element all the ammunition they need to say nothing has changed.
* petty rivalries will just be stoked - hard to break the cycle unless all parties decide to do so at the same time.

I say - new club, fresh start, no history - good or bad, division 3 but with no more recriminations, SFA/SFL/SPL supporting them to get back on their feet instead of dreaming up more punishments. Starting to see the silver lining....

What do you say - everyone on this thread who's used the abusive term "huns" - could you cut a "New Rangers" some slack based on the vision above?

What about other Rangers fans - could you sign up to that?

Neutrals - does that sound reasonable?


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## Bomber69 (Jun 14, 2012)

chris661 said:



			There you go liverbirdie up pops one of "ra peepul" to explain it all in two easy sentances.
		
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Are you a Mod ?

You seem more like a bitter FUD to me, get over yourself.


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## chris661 (Jun 14, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Are you a Mod ?

You seem more like a bitter FUD to me, get over yourself.
		
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Lol, this coming from the guy that's starts with taigs and potatoes?


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## Dodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Oh do I detect a slight change of direction here, yes it does go further but TBH this thread is full of Tim's spouting venom. 

What went on at Rangers was wrong and they deserve to be punished I agree but for F S let's leave the religion out off it.
		
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I'll leave it out then but I'll ask you a question I am genuinly interested in the answer.

Do the masses really actually back the cardigan even though he has been part of this whole circus.

Are the masses really so thick that they don't realise that he and his pals have been waiting for the club,that he has been banging on about 'saving' , to die a slow death before trying to gazump Green in a fire sale and buy the assets for a knock down price?

It is hilarious and ridiculous both at the same time and at this early stage ra peepul appear to have been taken in hook line and sinker because the cardigan is involved  instead of realising that he has part of a cabal that has royally shafted their club.

Not sure there has been venom by the way,maybe you think hatred (on my part) of the huns is venom?If so then there we go eh?


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Everything that is wrong with football in Scotland.Hopefully with one gone the second may clean up and the new club may take an opportunity to clean things up also.
		
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Dodger, it had to happen... we agree on something OF-related!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 14, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Lol, this coming from the guy that's starts with taigs and potatoes?
		
Click to expand...

Chris, I agree you're right to have a pop at this. However - "hun" is OK, "taig" isn't? Both are abusive, IMO.

Don't want this thread to degenerate - I'm trying to have a serious discussion on it!


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## Bomber69 (Jun 14, 2012)

It is a sad time for Scottish football that I am sure.

There will still be a lot of things to come out of what has happenend. But when I read all the religious stuff that is oozing out then it all seems sour grapes and that has nothing to do with the football so forgive me if I sound bitter.

Ranger deserve to be punished as I have said in the past so let's just see what happens and hopefully we can all move on from there.


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

An answer to my question Bomber?


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Lol, this coming from the guy that's starts with taigs and potatoes?
		
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Chris,

I ask you again are you a Mod ? 

I would expect more from a forum Mod, maybe you are a bitter Mod and need to stand back from this thread as you are not doing yourself or this forum any favors.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

Sorry are you referring to Sir Walter :whoo:


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Chris, I agree you're right to have a pop at this. However - "hun" is OK, "taig" isn't? Both are abusive, IMO.

Don't want this thread to degenerate - I'm trying to have a serious discussion on it! 

Click to expand...

IMO there is a difference between sectarianism and abusive. You are right about not wanting this thread to degenerate (maybe its too late). Maybe I am thick skinned but it doesn't really offend me, with the above quote I was getting a the bitterness (irony) part of it. There are different takes on this throughout Scotland some reports say him isn't a "bad" word as lots of differing groups use it but obviously some say that it isn't acceptable. 

Out of curiosity can you tell me why the word offends you? Indont mind if to don't want too as I say just curious.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



I'll leave it out then but I'll ask you a question I am genuinly interested in the answer.

Do the masses really actually back the cardigan even though he has been part of this whole circus.

Are the masses really so thick that they don't realise that he and his pals have been waiting for the club,that he has been banging on about 'saving' , to die a slow death before trying to gazump Green in a fire sale and buy the assets for a knock down price?

It is hilarious and ridiculous both at the same time and at this early stage ra peepul appear to have been taken in hook line and sinker because the cardigan is involved  instead of realising that he has part of a cabal that has royally shafted their club.

Not sure there has been venom by the way,maybe you think hatred (on my part) of the huns is venom?If so then there we go eh?

Click to expand...

Honest answer? I think that's a pretty cynical way of looking at it and not one that had occurred to me. Now you've stated it.... I can't discount it but I hope you're wrong. It's academic anyway, they should have made a move sooner - no chance of getting control now.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Chris,

I ask you again are you a Mod ? 

I would expect more from a forum Mod, maybe you are a bitter Mod and need to stand back from this thread as you are not doing yourself or this forum any favors.
		
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Honestly? Have you looked at what you are typing? I can't have an opinion as I am mod? 

There is obviously a disagreement but you are way wide of the mark,


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Honest answer? I think that's a pretty cynical way of looking at it and not one that had occurred to me. Now you've stated it.... I can't discount it but I hope you're wrong. It's academic anyway, they should have made a move sooner - no chance of getting control now.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sure.It's a game that is and has been played and it's only just starting.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Honestly? Have you looked at what you are typing? I can't have an opinion as I am mod? 

There is obviously a disagreement but you are way wide of the mark,[/QUOTE

I have read most of your comments and TBH I would have expected more from a Mod but I guess you have taken your opportunity to get you views over and cause a bit of trouble thinking you can get away with it because you are a "Mod" time to stand back or this thread will get out of hand and will close.
		
Click to expand...


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## Iaing (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			It is a sad time for Scottish football that I am sure.
		
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The sad time for Scottish football was when Rangers were cheating their way to silverware !!


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			I have read most of your comments and TBH I would have expected more from a Mod but I guess you have taken your opportunity to get you views over and cause a bit of trouble thinking you can get away with it because you are a "Mod" time to stand back or this thread will get out of hand and will close.
		
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Why will it get out of hand? No reason for it to do so as far as I am concerned. Yes it is an price issue for all concerned but hey we are supposed to be adults.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

Iaing said:



			The sad time for Scottish football was when Rangers were cheating their way to silverware !!
		
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Zzzz

How many times do you want to have a cheap short.


The fans knew nothing about what was going on yet you seem to blame them????


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Out of curiosity can you tell me why the word offends you? Indont mind if to don't want too as I say just curious.
		
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It's a difficult one really. As you say it's not sectarian but it was dreamed up as a term of abuse - some people seem to think if you use it enough it becomes OK. If a pal called me a "hun" with a smile during some banter in the pub I'd laugh it off, probably call him a "tim". On a forum like this from people you don't know I find it more sinister. I wouldn't call anyone a "tim" on here. If I called someone I didn't know a "tim" it'd be abuse.

Basically, I don't like it, don't think it's appropriate here. However, looks like I'm in a minority of 1 on this.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Why will it get out of hand? No reason for it to do so as far as I am concerned. Yes it is an price issue for all concerned but hey we are supposed to be adults.
		
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Well start acting like one and stop having cheap shots


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

The thread was going along well until one appears,they are all in denial and will be forever more yet they do not and cannot see it.

Close the thread,we know the score but the majority of those who supported the club that are deed never will and there in lies the reason no one has any sympathy for them.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's a difficult one really. As you say it's not sectarian but it was dreamed up as a term of abuse - some people seem to think if you use it enough it becomes OK. If a pal called me a "hun" with a smile during some banter in the pub I'd laugh it off, probably call him a "tim". On a forum like this from people you don't know I find it more sinister. I wouldn't call anyone a "tim" on here. If I called someone I didn't know a "tim" it'd be abuse.

Basically, I don't like it, don't think it's appropriate here. eHowever, looks like I'm in a minority of 1 on this.
		
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Nope it gets up my goat as well, hence I have used the Taig word. Not a word I would normally use but feel I  have been forced into using on this thread, sad really but that's just the way it is.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			The thread was going along well until one appears,they are *all in denial* and will be forever more yet they do not and cannot see it.

Close the thread,we know the score but the majority of those who supported the club that are deed never will and there in lies the reason no one has any sympathy for them.
		
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Not quite all, I think, if you've been reading my posts.

Don't close the thread - I'm off to bed, the rest of you sleep on it. I asked a serious question before things kicked off - I'm interested in the answer.

Cheers guys!


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Well start acting like one and stop having cheap shots

Click to expand...

Ditto


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Ditto 

Click to expand...



So your a ghosts now are you


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not quite all, I think, if you've been reading my posts.

Don't close the thread - I'm off to bed, the rest of you sleep on it. I asked a serious question before things kicked off - I'm interested in the answer.

Cheers guys!
		
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99.9% then.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's a difficult one really. As you say it's not sectarian but it was dreamed up as a term of abuse - some people seem to think if you use it enough it becomes OK. If a pal called me a "hun" with a smile during some banter in the pub I'd laugh it off, probably call him a "tim". On a forum like this from people you don't know I find it more sinister. I wouldn't call anyone a "tim" on here. If I called someone I didn't know a "tim" it'd be abuse.

Basically, I don't like it, don't think it's appropriate here. However, looks like I'm in a minority of 1 on this.
		
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Fair enough although surely abuse is abuse regardless of personal connection no? Anyway. This is all getting a bit socio political for me so I am going to bed.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			99.9% then.

Click to expand...


This thread must carry on just like the Glasgow Rangers.....


Dodger catch you later......


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			So your a ghosts now are you
		
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The movie?


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Fair enough although surely abuse is abuse regardless of personal connection no? Anyway. This is all getting a bit socio political for me so I am going to bed.
		
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Me too.....night night Huns,no nightmares eh? You've all had enough of those recently.:ears:


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Fair enough although surely abuse is abuse regardless of personal connection no? Anyway. This is all getting a bit socio political for me so I am going to bed.
		
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Sleep tight and get out the right side of bed tomorrow, I am sure it's going to be a long day when the Bhoys get up and read this......


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Me too.....night night Huns,no nightmares eh? You've all had enough of those recently.:ears:
		
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Get it right up you fresh start with no debt....


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Sleep tight and get out the right side of bed tomorrow, I am sure it's going to be a long day when the Bhoys get up and read this......
		
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 I always get out of be on the right side 

And remember its not personal


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



 I always get out of be on the right side 

And remember its not personal 

Click to expand...

Do you really mean Bee in your bonnet, no it's not personal


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## Iaing (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Zzzz

How many times do you want to have a cheap short.
		
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As many times as I've been called a Fenian/Orange b. ( depending on which half of the OF we were playing)

Believe me, if this was Celtic, I'd be having every bit as much fun.


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## Bomber69 (Jun 15, 2012)

Iaing said:



			As many times as I've been called a Fenian/Orange b. ( depending on which half of the OF we were playing)

eBelieve me, if this was Celtic, I'd be having every bit as much fun.
		
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 okay can see your point now and there was me going to take up your golfing offer too, maybe I should have now you have made you views a bit more clearer....


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## thecraw (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Sadly it cuts both ways. I started a job years ago and new colleagues commented that I was the only protestant (actually I'm an athiest FWIW - couldn't care less about protestant/catholic nonsense) the manager there had ever employed. In an unguarded moment after I mentioned supporting Rangers he remarked "I thought you were a tim?". He wasn't joking.
		
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Where was that then?


Glasgow City Council??????


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## thecraw (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Zzzz

How many times do you want to have a cheap short.


The fans knew nothing about what was going on yet you seem to blame them????
		
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Cheap shot my ass. Truth, 100%, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. FACT. No lies, no made up nonsense, FACTS. Live with it, admit it and get over it. If I live out with my means and don't pay taxes or my mortgage etc the taxman will be after me and the bank takes my house. Rangers should be no different.

Now go on, tell me I'm a Tim, I've already been called a Hun. Gimme a full house mate!



:whoo:


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Seems like the Taig's are all on form tonight what's wrong have you no potatoes to eat.
		
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I'm guessing the mods let this slip by because they're unaware of the connotations in this post?Easily the worst post I've read on here.

For those who don't know, taig is a term used by loyalist groups for Irish Catholics in such nice dittys as kill all taigs.
The potato reference is based on the great famine in Ireland where about 1million people died.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2012)

just heard if craig white gets 5 years in jail , murray will put in 10. and im a teddy bear. they both deserve it


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 15, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			just heard if craig white gets 5 years in jail , murray will put in 10. and im a teddy bear. they both deserve it
		
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I know a few Rangers fans, some are decent, some not so.The decent supporters realise the club have done some seriously wrong stuff and and accept starting in div 3 as a suitable punishment, the others, well, you can take a guess.


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## NWJocko (Jun 15, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I'm guessing the mods let this slip by because they're unaware of the connotations in this post?Easily the worst post I've read on here.

For those who don't know, taig is a term used by loyalist groups for Irish Catholics in such nice dittys as kill all taigs.
The potato reference is based on the great famine in Ireland where about 1million people died.
		
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Agree although it goes both ways....  The h**, t**, t*** etc references in this post highlight why bigotry and sectarianism will always be present in Scotland sadly.

Re the footy, I do feel for the rangers fans, although I still fear newco rangers will be playing in the spl next season making an utter mockery of our leagues.

Could Livingston and/or Gretna sue the spl and sfa if this happens?


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2012)

AMcC said:



			Apparently not mandatory, only a recommendation
		
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 i just notice your forum name .AMcC. your not ALLY are you ?that would be good


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			Agree although it goes both ways....  The h**, t**, t*** etc references in this post highlight why bigotry and sectarianism will always be present in Scotland sadly.

Re the footy, I do feel for the rangers fans, although I still fear newco rangers will be playing in the spl next season making an utter mockery of our leagues.

Could Livingston and/or Gretna sue the spl and sfa if this happens?
		
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 livy and gretna . didn,t lose their spot in europe and lose a few million, or fined as much . how may times can you hang someone .


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## NWJocko (Jun 15, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			livy and gretna . didn,t lose their spot in europe and lose a few million, or fined as much . how may times can you hang someone .
		
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Not talking about rangers. Meant livi and Gretna got punted to the bottom league (and beyond in the case of Gretna).

There is no "rangers" for anyone to sue I was talking about the authorities who are going to ( I suspect) do whatever they can to keep newco rangers in the spl.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			livy and gretna . didn,t lose their spot in europe and lose a few million, or fined as much . how may times can you hang someone .
		
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Livi and gretna never systematically cheated there way to trophies and titles over 20 years though. How much money did Souness pay for the three duds that he took to blackburn 18 - 20 million? come on


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

Yer Maw said:



			Coming from a similarly divided city, I know a lot of the language/customs/history/heritage of both sides, but I'm not familiar with "ra peepul". Is it s protestant thing, or I presume just a Rangers thing.

Sorry mate the divided city comparrison is not comparable at all.  I lived in Liverpool for 6 years and kids in the same family would support one or the other, you could wear a red or blue top and not get chased down the street because some nutters thought you were an Blue or Red etc. etc.  The division and hatred between Celtic and Rangers has no comparison in the UK and not something I'm proud of being Scottish.  The Scouse acceptance of one another with good banter and the occasional dafty was quite good and what I'd rather have any day.  They are a scourge on Scotland and I wish both the Old Firm would sod off but we're stuck with them as no-one else wants their nonsense.  The whole Scottish game is screwed and they're the guilty party.  The vast majority of no old firm fans think like that and want Rengers demoted to the lowest league possible and treated like all the others who go into liquidation.  If it doesn't happen like that then what is already a dire situation will finally be killed off for many moons.
		
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Hi Yer Maw, you misunderstand me. I was talking from a religious point of view.

Liverpool was/is a divided religious city, but gladly this has immensely improved over the last 10-15 years. My grandparents and parents have regaled me with loads of stories from what it was like to live in Liverpool, even back to the thirties. In the 30's (and before) it was deeply divided with certain streets being orange or green with regard to residents.

One side of my family were virtually bullied out of one street, with them being the only catholic family in a certain street (had their windows put in etc). When walking the streets you were often asked "I" or "O" as a kid in this time. There were'nt many mixed families around then, although there were some

My mum/dad said that this had abated by the 60's, but around the 12th (July) tensions would always rise again. The lodge would be regularly attacked/bricked in certain areas especially around the bullring and Scotland road areas of Liverpool. Netherfield road was (and still is) a fiercely Protestant area, and there are still two "clubs" there now, near to Liverpool's ground. When the lodge marched it would sometimes take 30 minutes to pass, as they would often be joined by bands from Scotland and Ireland.

When  growing up in the 70's/80's my dad used to take me to see the lodge (even though I was brought up a Cathloic, due to my mother). The kids used to go and watch them of both persuasions TBH. He was also nearly arrested once for crossing the road between 2 seperate bands. I was never inclulcated on any side. My dad only seen it as a bevvy, but all his family used to meet up and go to Southport with the lodge, but none of them are fiercely orange, and most are mixed marriages.

I don't say this as any slight on Glasgow, but Liverpool has dramatically moved on from the past and as each generation goes by the religious divide is hardly evident nowadays. Religion barely geta a mention, although it can flare up now and again.

I think that one of the reasons it is still a massive thing in Glasgow (and Scotland) is due to the OF. Some say that LFC was the Protestant club, Everton the catholic club. I slightly disagree, I think it was more LFC used to buy Scottish players, EFC Irish players. Both sets of my family are Red, but come from Dad's (Protestant) and Mum's (Catholic) heritage, and TBH this is reflected throughout the city.

I have been thinking of putting a post on here for 6 months, about whether there is any hope in Scottish football (or society) with regard to sectarianism, and have wanted to pick the right time. Sadly with RFC/CFC playing each other 4-6 times a year, and the Rangers debacle, I have realised that there will never be a right time, as it obviously inflames so many passions.

This is not someone on a high horse, some may not like an outsider commenting on this, but whilst no expert, unusually Liverpool is the only other English city that actually has had the same problems in the past. There hasn't been any "campaigns" to get rid of sectarianism,  I would mainly put it down to religious apathy and the fact that our footy teams have never much bought into it.

LFC fans sing a song called "Scouser Tommy" (look it up) which has part of it's tune from "the sash" and also sing a song called "the fields of Anfield road" from the tune "fields of Athenry". I am sure everyone sings both songs.

Not being judgemental, sad to see Rangers fold, also understand some of the Celtic/other Scottish teams ire , as seen as financial cheating.


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## CMAC (Jun 15, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			Agree although it goes both ways....  The h**, t**, t*** etc references in this post highlight why bigotry and sectarianism will always be present in Scotland sadly.
		
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imo because the parents fuel it..........



on the Rangers issue it appears Jim McColl involved now, now thats a man with credibility..........his interest surprises me unless he has political aspirations


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## Paul_Stewart (Jun 15, 2012)

I am no soccer fan but the subject of business in sport is one I write about for the American media a lot.  To put this whole situation into some kind of perspective, how about this?

Imagine someone at your golf club, John Doe, has been caught cheating in a competition and the penalty is for him to be kicked out of your club.   He then wants to re-apply calling himself John Doe 2, wants his handicap automatically transferred to his new personna, plus also the Â£100 he has on his bar levy card, and the vouchers he previously had to spend in the club shop. He also wants his reserved tee times for the next month too.

And in addition, John Doe still owed his previous year's subscription to the club. But he now wanted this wiped clean so he could start the new year with nothing owing.

How would you feel about that as a golfer?


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration â€“ or is that now in liquidation?) is no longer eligible to hold an SPL share. It does not have a ground, it cannot run a youth development system, it has major financial issues. Remember that those overdue accounts are now due today. It fails to meet many of the SPL membership criteria.

So the next Board meeting of the SPL should ask for the share to be remitted to the league. The former football club should take no more part in discussions on the future of an organisation it will not be a part of.

Sevco 5088 (trading as The Rangers Football Club) is not yet a football club. We are told that it now owns Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park, but does it employ any footballers? Does it have a youth development system? Can it meet the SPLâ€™s financial regulations? 

This is not as simple as Sevco winning 8 votes â€“ and that should be 8 of 11 SPL members by the time a decisions is made. Before its application can be voted on it must be assessed against all of the membership criteria. 

As said by me all along this process,this has a long long way to go yet.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



As said by me all along this process,this has a long long way to go yet.

Click to expand...

I honestly think there will be NO rangers at all next year, maybe juniors but I can't see how they can get readmitted to the league going by the rules. I can imagine Spartans will contest any re admittance


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration â€“ or is that now in liquidation?) is no longer eligible to hold an SPL share. It does not have a ground, it cannot run a youth development system, it has major financial issues. Remember that those overdue accounts are now due today. It fails to meet many of the SPL membership criteria.

So the next Board meeting of the SPL should ask for the share to be remitted to the league. The former football club should take no more part in discussions on the future of an organisation it will not be a part of.

Sevco 5088 (trading as The Rangers Football Club) is not yet a football club. We are told that it now owns Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park, but does it employ any footballers? Does it have a youth development system? Can it meet the SPLâ€™s financial regulations? 

Click to expand...

Dodger, you're morally right I believe. Unfortunately the worlds of business and football don't often operate on common sense morality. I find it strange "Rangers" get a vote in this.

Take a step back though. The SPL has lost one of its two biggest teams and with them maybe (finger in the air) 30% of paying supporters. The two-horse race becomes a coronation procession for the next few years, even Celtic fans will tire of the lack of competition. There is a danger of loss of income from TV. Turnover from the league will reduce, downsizing is likely... etc etc. Not blustering here, not saying "the SPL needs Rangers" but trying to look at it realistically.

So if a company applies to enter a new team in the league. They have a good stadium and other facilities, the capacity to run a youth program etc. And can reasonably suggest they would bring back almost as many supporters as were lost when Rangers left, possibly mount a challenge for the title in a couple of seasons. Is there merit in accepting that application? Is the answer different if they want to call themselves "Rangers" or... say... "Govan Wanderers"?

Yes, a long way to go and still too many people grinding historical axes instead of looking pragmatically to the future.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Yes, a long way to go and still too many people grinding historical axes instead of looking pragmatically to the future.
		
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How did Scottish football fare on the european stage in the 80's and 90's or how competative wsa the league when only one of rangers and celtic were strong?


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Paul_Stewart said:



			I am no soccer fan but the subject of business in sport is one I write about for the American media a lot.  To put this whole situation into some kind of perspective, how about this?

Imagine someone at your golf club, John Doe, has been caught cheating in a competition and the penalty is for him to be kicked out of your club.   He then wants to re-apply calling himself John Doe 2, wants his handicap automatically transferred to his new personna, plus also the Â£100 he has on his bar levy card, and the vouchers he previously had to spend in the club shop. He also wants his reserved tee times for the next month too.

And in addition, John Doe still owed his previous year's subscription to the club. But he now wanted this wiped clean so he could start the new year with nothing owing.

How would you feel about that as a golfer?
		
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Paul, no offence but I don't think your analogy holds water. Good attempt to steer things back to golf though! 

In your example, an individual is guilty of cheating and been punished.

With Rangers the people responsible for the "cheating" have left the club and should never be involved in football again. The fans, most of whom will have supported the club all their lives, are guilty of nothing more than naivety (I'm talking about the corporate governance stuff - not any abuse/thuggery etc that some individuals have done - and all football clubs have an undesirable element in their support - so please nobody toss that back here).

Why should the institution not be rehabilitated under new ownership? 

I was pretty upset when Rangers went into administration and again when it became clear they'd be liquidated but I think I'm now able to look at it with more detachment. I'm not sure I'd even support "New Rangers" but, with everything that's happened, I can't think of a good reason not to try to let them start again; under the conditions I suggested yesterday that nobody wants to comment on:

Division 3 / Zero Tolerance of sectarianism / History forgotten (both good and bad aspects) / Support from SFA/SFL/SPL to help them back on their feet rather than continuing to heap more punishments on them


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## bladeplayer (Jun 15, 2012)

I know alot of people wont agree with me , but im just wondering . now with Rangers gone , Celtic should & probably will win the league for say  at least the next 5years .. ok ? aligences aside do we agree on this ? 

Do you think sky sports or other TV companies will want to spend money to buy into this scenario/farce , how ever you would like it described  ?

Who will get the champions league spots ? Hearts , Motherwell ? are they realy in a place to compete at that level yet ? 

I am not for a second saying what rangers did shouldnt be punished , it should & seems it will be , but is Scotish football prepared for the backlash across the board ? 

I am not geting into the heated debate that is going on i am GENUINELY wondering if this can possibly not have far reaching consequences for all of Scottish football , & people wil say Scottish football dont NEED Rangers or Celtic for that matter , but in all honesty are these 2 clubs not mostly responsible for TV income etc ? what happens if you kill one of the golden geese ? 

 as i say i am genuinely asking a question that i dont know the answer to & am intrested in genuine answeres from people with more knowledge of it than myself .


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			How did Scottish football fare on the european stage in the 80's and 90's or how competative wsa the league when only one of rangers and celtic were strong?
		
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Looking at the past again.... I'm trying to think what's best going forward for Scottish football of which I'm a long time supporter.

Yes, in time we might get a team like Aberdeen or Dundee United challenging Celtic. But maybe not. European football now bears no relation to the 80s and 90s - it's a different world and Scottish teams no longer have the finances to compete; Rangers tried, took foolish risks and we see how that ended.

To me, we can't afford to lose such a great proportion of paying customers just because the others didn't like Rangers.


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## birdieman (Jun 15, 2012)

Regarding religious intolerance I think people need to realise it is very much a west of Scotland issue and mainly Glasgow due to the historic high numbers of Irish migrant workers who came here many moons ago. Don't blight all of Scotland with this - it's not a Scottish problem, it's just an Old Firm/Glasgow problem. I think the situation is also greatly improved since a few decades ago as the older generation die off who were far less tolerant and more bigoted than younger generations, despite going to Church every Sunday!


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2012)

having separate schools from 5 years of age . must cause a division of some kind


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## patricks148 (Jun 15, 2012)

Can't even mention Rangers i our house at the moment

My wifes a life long Rangers fan and is not taking the whole sorry saga very well.

I asked here this morning what was happening and she just threw me a dirty look and went off to get ready for work


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			I am not geting into the heated debate that is going on i am GENUINELY wondering if this can possibly not have far reaching consequences for all of Scottish football , & people wil say Scottish football dont NEED Rangers or Celtic for that matter , but in all honesty are these 2 clubs not mostly responsible for TV income etc ? what happens if you kill one of the golden geese ?
		
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I believe your assessment is correct. As a Rangers fan, I'm open to accusations of arrogance, intimidation etc if I press that point of view.

Scottish football will undoubtedly survive without Rangers but in a reduced form. Sky mainly want to cover four old firm games, and to a lesser extent games involving one of the old firm. I expect they'd still show SPL football but only for a greatly reduced fee (and they already pay buttons compared to the EPL).

This is actually a once in a lifetime opportunity to make significant structural changes that might benefit Scottish football but, unfortunately, Rangers fans are too busy desperately trying to keep their club going and almost everyone else still wants to put the boot in.

We need to be able to take a step back with clear heads and work out the best way forward for football in this country.

Unfortunately clear heads and Scottish football rarely go together.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Looking at the past again.... I'm trying to think what's best going forward for Scottish football of which I'm a long time supporter.

Yes, in time we might get a team like Aberdeen or Dundee United challenging Celtic. But maybe not. European football now bears no relation to the 80s and 90s - it's a different world and Scottish teams no longer have the finances to compete; Rangers tried, took foolish risks and we see how that ended.

To me, we can't afford to lose such a great proportion of paying customers just because the others didn't like Rangers.
		
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TO me we cant afford to keep rangers in. They have systematically cheated their way through the lsat 15 years or so, went bust owing possibly 130 MILLION pounds but Scottish football is just supposed to say its ok come on back?


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## NWJocko (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			I believe your assessment is correct. As a Rangers fan, I'm open to accusations of arrogance, intimidation etc if I press that point of view.

Scottish football will undoubtedly survive without Rangers but in a reduced form. Sky mainly want to cover four old firm games, and to a lesser extent games involving one of the old firm. I expect they'd still show SPL football but only for a greatly reduced fee (and they already pay buttons compared to the EPL).

This is actually a once in a lifetime opportunity to make significant structural changes that might benefit Scottish football but, unfortunately, Rangers fans are too busy desperately trying to keep their club going and almost everyone else still wants to put the boot in.

We need to be able to take a step back with clear heads and work out the best way forward for football in this country.

Unfortunately clear heads and Scottish football rarely go together.
		
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To me this argument of a "non-competitive league " doesn't hold water.

Rangers won 9 in a row when, for the first while at least, Celtic were on their backsides financially.

What help were rangers proposing for Celtic at that point for the "good of Scottish football"?

Re the past, it isn't long since Livingston were kicked to the bottom and Gretna effectively flushed out of existence.

Whilst the league may be poorer and less marketable without rangers you simply cannot make the rules up as you go along on an ad hoc basis.

A question for the rangers fans- if this was Dundee it'd, hearts, Aberdeen etc would you be crying for them to be kept in the spl?


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			TO me we cant afford to keep rangers in. They have systematically cheated their way through the lsat 15 years or so, went bust owing possibly 130 MILLION pounds but Scottish football is just supposed to say its ok come on back?
		
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Well.... yes! The guilty parties are gone, why can't the club be rehabilitated under new ownership?

Would you be happy for a new club to be accepted into Scottish football if they had decent facilities etc, could guarantee, say, 20000 fans per game, were run on good corporate governance principles, zero tolerance of sectarianism? Would your answer vary depending on that that team called itself?

I genuinely don't believe we (scottish football) can lose such a large proportion of paying customers and not suffer for it.


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

birdieman said:



			Regarding religious intolerance I think people need to realise it is very much a west of Scotland issue and mainly Glasgow due to the historic high numbers of Irish migrant workers who came here many moons ago. Don't blight all of Scotland with this - it's not a Scottish problem, it's just an Old Firm/Glasgow problem. I think the situation is also greatly improved since a few decades ago as the older generation die off who were far less tolerant and more bigoted than younger generations, despite going to Church every Sunday!
		
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You are wrong with this claim on so many levels,try travelling around the grounds of Scotland as a Celtic fan and you will soon realise this.I did so for nearly ten years as a Protestant supporting Celtic fan and believe me places like Edinburgh,Motherwell and Dundee were as bad as travelling to Ibrox.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			A question for the rangers fans- if this was Dundee it'd, hearts, Aberdeen etc would you be crying for them to be kept in the spl?
		
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No. I'd be saying we need to pull out all the stops to help them recover in the third division. Which is exactly what I'm arguing about Rangers.


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Well.... yes! The guilty parties are gone, why can't the club be rehabilitated under new ownership?

Would you be happy for a new club to be accepted into Scottish football if they had decent facilities etc, could guarantee, say, 20000 fans per game, were run on good corporate governance principles, zero tolerance of sectarianism? Would your answer vary depending on that that team called itself?

I genuinely don't believe we (scottish football) can lose such a large proportion of paying customers and not suffer for it.
		
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With Chris here and cannot believe you think this way.

What statement does this say to the rest of the clubs in Scotland?

My Old Man,a Jambo,says that if this happens Mad Vlad may as well spend big,win the league,give the Jambo's the time of their lives then liquidate the club seeing as it'll just be a case of coming back straight after.

Open your eyes to the damage this could/will cause to the fans of the other teams for Christ sake.

# Edited to say my apologies.....I see you are happy with Div 3 as I am (with further sanctions),I thought you were arguing to a straight return to SPL which is wrong on so many fronts.:thup:


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Well.... yes! The guilty parties are gone, why can't the club be rehabilitated under new ownership?

Would you be happy for a new club to be accepted into Scottish football if they had decent facilities etc, could guarantee, say, 20000 fans per game, were run on good corporate governance principles, zero tolerance of sectarianism? Would your answer vary depending on that that team called itself?

I genuinely don't believe we (scottish football) can lose such a large proportion of paying customers and not suffer for it.
		
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But the entity that is Rangers is still there, albeit a different name, and as such are still liable for the cheating etc. Honestly I would not be happy for them to come back in to scottish football scot free as it shows that there is zero integrity and the rest of the clubs are essentially parasites living off celtic and rangers. I want a strong and competitive league and if that means some downsizing for all so be it.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			With Chris here and cannot believe you think this way.

What statement does this say to the rest of the clubs in Scotland?

My Old Man,a Jambo,says that if this happens Mad Vlad may as well spend big,win the league,give the Jambo's the time of their lives then liquidate the club seeing as it'll just be a case of coming back straight after.

Open your eyes to the damage this could/will cause to the fans of the other teams for Christ sake.
		
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That's a typical hypothetical "pub" argument and totally specious. Anyone who wants to go through what Rangers have just gone through is an idiot, frankly.

I'd trade every trophy they've won in my lifetime to still have a team to support.

Starting again, chastened, in division 3 is not exactly "coming back straight after".

EDIT: OK, just seen your edit. We're sort of in agreement I think! :cheers:


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Another thing, when rangers were wanting to leave the league to go to England how many were worried about the strength of Scottish football then?


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## smange (Jun 15, 2012)

To all the people who seem to reckon Scottish football needs Sky TV, can I just point you back to the days before Sky TV when clubs such as Aberdeen and Dundee United actually won the league and done well in Europe. We also had a much stronger national side than we have had for 20 years

All Sky has done for Scottish football has made Rangers and Celtic stronger and weakened the rest in comparison to the old firm. Im not sure of the figures but the old firm get a higher percentage of the money between themselves than the rest of the league do all together. Sky have actually been to the detriment of Scottish football as a whole.

Its time Scottish football took a step back and looked at itself, does the countries football supporters enjoy having two teams winning most trophies most years? Of course they dont so lets look at strengthening the game in general and not just the old firm. 

Who knows maybe if we concentrated on the whole of Scottish football our national side might one day qualify for the finals of a major tournament again.

Our game has become a laughing stock and this carry on with Rangers is making it a whole lot worse, and if Newco are allowed entry into the SPL next season our game is dead and buried.


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## NWJocko (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			You are wrong with this claim on so many levels,try travelling around the grounds of Scotland as a Celtic fan and you will soon realise this.I did so for nearly ten years as a Protestant supporting Celtic fan and believe me places like Edinburgh,Motherwell and Dundee were as bad as travelling to Ibrox.
		
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It saddens me as a Scotsman to agree with this.  People who think this is confined to the west and, further still, old firm fans have their head in the sand.

I'm not a fan of either the OF but living in the east and attending matches I know that it is pretty widespread.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Another thing, when rangers were wanting to leave the league to go to England how many were worried about the strength of Scottish football then?
		
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Fair point. 

Another historical reason to put the boot in now?


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			That's a typical hypothetical "pub" argument and totally specious. Anyone who wants to go through what Rangers have just gone through is an idiot, frankly.

I'd trade every trophy they've won in my lifetime to still have a team to support.

Starting again, chastened, in division 3 is not exactly "coming back straight after".
		
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Read my edit.

It isn't hypothetical though is it,this could actually happen and therefore steps must be put in place to stop it.

Through all of this it amazes me that I have hardly come across a Rangers fan who is genuinely sorry,maybe sorry is the wrong word, embarrassed maybe?/ by what has happened and this is why so many cannot find the time to have even the slightest bit of sympathy.

A few with a wee bit of humility would go along way.


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Another thing, when rangers were wanting to leave the league to go to England how many were worried about the strength of Scottish football then?
		
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As Walter Chris,ask the man who wants to be the King Pin......


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			To all the people who seem to reckon Scottish football needs Sky TV, can I just point you back to the days before Sky TV when clubs such as Aberdeen and Dundee United actually won the league and done well in Europe. We also had a much stronger national side than we have had for 20 years

All Sky has done for Scottish football has made Rangers and Celtic stronger and weakened the rest in comparison to the old firm. Im not sure of the figures but the old firm get a higher percentage of the money between themselves than the rest of the league do all together. Sky have actually been to the detriment of Scottish football as a whole.
		
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You're both right and wrong!

Sky have been to the detriment of Scottish Football. Mainly because of the huge disparity in finance they're created between Scottish and English football.

Similarly, when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were competing in Europe Scottish Football was closer to European football in terms of finance. Now we're worlds behind.


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## Val (Jun 15, 2012)

This thread got fun last night


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Fair point. 

Another historical reason to put the boot in now?
		
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Eh? You are using a strong game as your argument. It has nothing to do with the "historical" side it is to do with the blatant lies and cheating that has been committed by rangers. 

Has anyone actually apologised for the disrepute they have brought on Scottish football? Duff & Phelps were telling potential investors/purchasers not to worry about any more sanctions as they were the establishment club, that attitude will NEVER go away from the majority of the supporters, the want to boycott pretty much everybody


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

I think the biggest question to be asked in all of this is..............................























Where the hell is StuartD??????  :rofl::whoo::rofl::whoo::rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



Eh? You are using a strong game as your argument. It has nothing to do with the "historical" side it is to do with the blantant lies and cheating that has been committed by rangers. ​

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Don't really follow you. You seemed to be saying that because Rangers tried in the past to join the EPL we should stamp them out of existence now rather than letting them rebuild from division 3. I'm hoping that at some point everyone will look forward to what's best for the scottish game rather than dredging up old grievances.



chris661 said:



			Has anyone actually apologised for the disrepute they have brought on Scottish football?
		
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I'm very sorry mister, can I have my team back please?


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## smange (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			You're both right and wrong!

Sky have been to the detriment of Scottish Football. Mainly because of the huge disparity in finance they're created between Scottish and English football.

Similarly, when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were competing in Europe Scottish Football was closer to European football in terms of finance. Now we're worlds behind.
		
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Theres always been huge financial difference between Scottish and English football, thats why all the big teams in England back in the 70s and 80s raided Scottish teams for their best players. Much like Rangers and Celtic have done to the rest of Scottish football since Sky started filling the old firms coffers with a lot more money than the others.

Im sure one thing we all would like to see is a Scottish national team that can compete and qualify for major tournaments in the future. Restructuring Scottish football for the good of Scottish football and not just the old firm is the only way that can happen.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

I'd trade every trophy they've won in my lifetime to still have a team to support.

Fairway, I think you are doing an admirable job sticking up for your team, whether I agree with your views or not, as you  obviously have lots of passion.

However, would Rangers have near the support they have now without all of them trophy laden years? Yes, they would be supported massively, but as we all know long term winning of trophies gets you more fans.


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## Val (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			Theres always been huge financial difference between Scottish and English football, thats why all the big teams in England back in the 70s and 80s raided Scottish teams for their best players. Much like Rangers and Celtic have done to the rest of Scottish football since Sky started filling the old firms coffers with a lot more money than the others.

Im sure one thing we all would like to see is a Scottish national team that can compete and qualify for major tournaments in the future. Restructuring Scottish football for the good of Scottish football and not just the old firm is the only way that can happen.
		
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I don't get this, Sky don't pay Rangers or Celtic TV money the SPL do and the SPL chairmen agreed the split in revenue.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			Im sure one thing we all would like to see is a Scottish national team that can compete and qualify for major tournaments in the future. Restructuring Scottish football for the good of Scottish football and not just the old firm is the only way that can happen.
		
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YES!! EXACTLY!!

And NOW is the once in a lifetime chance to do it but we're too busy arguing about what punishments Rangers do or don't deserve. We ALL need to look forward and make whatever changes are necessary to improve our game.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't really follow you. You seemed to be saying that because Rangers tried in the past to join the EPL we should stamp them out of existence now rather than letting them rebuild from division 3. I'm hoping that at some point everyone will look forward to what's best for the scottish game rather than dredging up old grievances.



I'm very sorry mister, can I have my team back please?
		
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But they dont want to rebuild form division 3 though do they? Otherwise they would not have applied to rejoin the SPL. The newco want to be readmitted straight back in with no punishment. Don't forget there still is the whole saga of dual contracts and the resitting of the appellate tribunal to come which could lead to the expulsion anyway.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			However, would Rangers have near the support they have now without all of them trophy laden years? Yes, they would be supported massively, but as we all know long term winning of trophies gets you more fans.
		
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Exactly, when they were languishing mid table the were lucky to get 20,000.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			However, would Rangers have near the support they have now without all of them trophy laden years? Yes, they would be supported massively, but as we all know long term winning of trophies gets you more fans.
		
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Nope.... 

And none of it matters now. I genuinely hope no true football supporters - of any other team - have to go through this.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

chris661 said:



			But they dont want to rebuild form division 3 though do they? Otherwise they would not have applied to rejoin the SPL. The newco want to be readmitted straight back in with no punishment. Don't forget there still is the whole saga of dual contracts and the resitting of the appellate tribunal to come which could lead to the expulsion anyway.
		
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No, they don't. I agree with you. To me they're chancing it trying to get back into the SPL and I wish they wouldn't. But Charles Green cares not at all about the club or Scottish football; if he gets them into the SPL next season he gets to cash in and leave sooner.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			Theres always been huge financial difference between Scottish and English football, thats why all the big teams in England back in the 70s and 80s raided Scottish teams for their best players. Much like Rangers and Celtic have done to the rest of Scottish football since Sky started filling the old firms coffers with a lot more money than the others.

Im sure one thing we all would like to see is a Scottish national team that can compete and qualify for major tournaments in the future. Restructuring Scottish football for the good of Scottish football and not just the old firm is the only way that can happen.
		
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Smange, agree with lots of your views on sky being worse for Scottish football. The fact is though that unless you take the TV money, you wouldn't be able to attract decent porfessional footballers nowadays, and it would be probably similar in standard to a Slovakian league.

You make the assumption that most club fans, think more of the national team than their own team. I think most LFC,MUFC,MCFC,CFC,AFC,THFC,EFC,NUFC,AVFC would care more about their own teams than the national team.

In Scotland it may be different but ask a Hearts/Hibee/AFC/Dundonian fan if they would rather see their team win the SPl or Scotland qualify for a major championship, wnat do you think the answer would be?


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

I can't believe I am heading off to Leeds/York for 3 days on the piss and I'll miss the happenings on this excellent thread.....please guys keep it cool and keep away from arguements of the wrong nature as I want to have a good read when I return!

Oh,and can someone please contact StuartD to make sure he's okay?:rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I can't believe I am heading off to Leeds/York for 3 days on the piss and I'll miss the happenings on this excellent thread.....please guys keep it cool and keep away from arguements of the wrong nature as I want to have a good read when I return!

Oh,and can someone please contact StuartD to make sure he's okay?:rofl:
		
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I'm feeling a bit like D'artagnon battling half a dozen of the cardinals men at once but it seems vaguely therapeutic.

However I've got my club championship (golf) semi-final tonight so really need to go and get ready for that.

You guys don't just want to concede and let Rangers back in do you? Please..?

OK, thought not - catch you later! :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:





I'm feeling a bit like D'artagnon battling half a dozen of the cardinals men at once but it seems vaguely therapeutic.

However I've got my club championship (golf) semi-final tonight so really need to go and get ready for that.

You guys don't just want to concede and let Rangers back in do you? Please..?

OK, thought not - catch you later! :thup:
		
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Good luck with the golf.

I applaud your passion. Now you know what the Luis Suarez thing was like, although very different in context.


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## Dodger (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:





I'm feeling a bit like D'artagnon battling half a dozen of the cardinals men at once but it seems vaguely therapeutic.

However I've got my club championship (golf) semi-final tonight so really need to go and get ready for that.

You guys don't just want to concede and let Rangers back in do you? Please..?

OK, thought not - catch you later! :thup:
		
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:thup:


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## smange (Jun 15, 2012)

Valentino said:



			I don't get this, Sky don't pay Rangers or Celtic TV money the SPL do and the SPL chairmen agreed the split in revenue.
		
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This is where we get back to the farcical 11-1 voting system I would guess

You know the one thats agreed to use 99% of the time when its something that Celtic and Rangers wanted but is now 8-4 when its something that only one of them are fighting for.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 15, 2012)

Jings
I start a wee thread about the demise of Rangers.
Go away for 3 days 
And come back to 4,000 views and 260 posts.
Wow


Some well informed folk on here.
Perhaps someone could tell me how Green managed to pay only Â£5.5m for Ibrox and Murray Park.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			This is where we get back to the farcical 11-1 voting system I would guess

You know the one thats agreed to use 99% of the time when its something that Celtic and Rangers wanted but is now 8-4 when its something that only one of them are fighting for.
		
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I think if the SFA had Kofi Annan, Desmond Tutu, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, the Pop.... (oh no) on the board there would still be controversy.


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## smange (Jun 15, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Smange, agree with lots of your views on sky being worse for Scottish football. The fact is though that unless you take the TV money, you wouldn't be able to attract decent porfessional footballers nowadays, and it would be probably similar in standard to a Slovakian league.

You make the assumption that most club fans, think more of the national team than their own team. I think most LFC,MUFC,MCFC,CFC,AFC,THFC,EFC,NUFC,AVFC would care more about their own teams than the national team.

In Scotland it may be different but ask a Hearts/Hibee/AFC/Dundonian fan if they would rather see their team win the SPl or Scotland qualify for a major championship, wnat do you think the answer would be?
		
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I would always put my club (Dunfermline Athletic) winning a major honour before the national team.

I would say our league at present is probably poorer than a Slovakian league, look at Scottish clubs recent European exploits and youll see that, so much for Sky money there then.

Im not saying we shouldnt take Skys money but what I am saying is that it should be more evenly distributed between all the clubs in the league and not all about making 2 of them so much more richer than the rest then complaining that its not competitive enough


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			I would always put my club (Dunfermline Athletic) winning a major honour before the national team.

I would say our league at present is probably poorer than a Slovakian league, look at Scottish clubs recent European exploits and youll see that, so much for Sky money there then.

Im not saying we shouldnt take Skys money but what I am saying is that it should be more evenly distributed between all the clubs in the league and not all about making 2 of them so much more richer than the rest then complaining that its not competitive enough
		
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Agree with that, the EPL should be the same also. The Champions league money should also be shared around, but when countries like Spain let individual clubs negotiate individual deals, it is not a fair playing field.

I have said for the last year or so that nowadays whenever talking football with mates etc, 40% of it ends up talking about finances/money/transfer fees/deals/sky deal/sponsorship/wages/legal issues.

Remember the good old days when it was just about players and tactics?


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## bladeplayer (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			To all the people who seem to reckon Scottish football needs Sky TV, can I just point you back to the days before Sky TV when clubs such as Aberdeen and Dundee United actually won the league and done well in Europe. We also had a much stronger national side than we have had for 20 years

All Sky has done for Scottish football has made Rangers and Celtic stronger and weakened the rest in comparison to the old firm. Im not sure of the figures but the old firm get a higher percentage of the money between themselves than the rest of the league do all together. Sky have actually been to the detriment of Scottish football as a whole.

.
		
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I was asking out of curiosity Stephen , i wouldnt have enough knowledge of Scottish fotball to do otherwise


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## smange (Jun 15, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Remember the good old days when it was just about players and tactics?
		
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And standing on the terraces and being allowed to actually celebrate your team scoring a goal instead of being told by a jumped up steward to sit in your seat or youll be removed from the ground for daring to stand up and clap a goal.

Football has become sterile, in Scotland at least, not sure what it like in the EPL as havent been to a game in England for a long long time.

Those are arguements for another day though.

Bill- wasnt aimed at your post to be honest was more of a dig at the media who seem to think Sky TV money is the be all and end all for Scottish football and to hell with sporting integrity


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

smange said:



			And standing on the terraces and being allowed to actually celebrate your team scoring a goal instead of being told by a jumped up steward to sit in your seat or youll be removed from the ground for daring to stand up and clap a goal.

Football has become sterile, in Scotland at least, not sure what it like in the EPL as havent been to a game in England for a long long time.

Those are arguements for another day though.

Bill- wasnt aimed at your post to be honest was more of a dig at the media who seem to think Sky TV money is the be all and end all for Scottish football and to hell with sporting integrity
		
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Yes same down here, but changes from club to club. I believe Arsenal is the worst with the stewards, from what most home fans say. Anfield can be great on a good day, but haven't got that good a memory.

Sadly Anfield is rubbish for atmosphere for 80% of games nowadays, but can still be great when required.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 15, 2012)

I really feel that Dunfermline have got the short straw in this fuddle.
The fact that Oldco Rangers can vote on whether Newco The Rangers can play in the SPL is absolutely farcical and is totally against natural justice.
If the SPL vote to expel The Rangers I assume that Dunfermline will be re-instated.
Hearts are also smarting as Old Rangers renaged on payments for Lee Wallace. About Â£800,000 owed. I believe. At least Vlad could have a wee smile about that one as one third of the 'Mafia' bites the dust.


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## thecraw (Jun 15, 2012)

Valentino said:



			I don't get this, Sky don't pay Rangers or Celtic TV money the SPL do and the SPL chairmen agreed the split in revenue.
		
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Wrong the old firm bullied their way to 80% share of sky money.


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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Wrong the old firm bullied their way to 80% share of sky money.
		
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Nows the time to get it carved up properly to let the rest of the clubs get a fair share. Any and all income should be in a pot and divvied out on position in the league, with a more stringent check on clubs finances eg the ratio of income to wages etc. If things get done properly NOW scottish football can reap the benefits for YEARS down the line.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 15, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			J
Perhaps someone could tell me how Green managed to pay only Â£5.5m for Ibrox and Murray Park.
		
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Who knows, especially when Duff & Duffer valued them at Â£120M when they rolled into Ibrox.Quite astonishing how the whole fiasco has been handled.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 15, 2012)

Chris it is the one chance they have to sort it out.
Look at recent results of the three main Scottish Trophies.
Hells teeth even wee Gretna got to a SFA Cup final so folk who say the OF dominate trophies are wide of the mark. The League, now that is a different story, where money and a strong squad do count.
Forget Sky and negotiate a lower TV deal that all clubs can benfit from.
One of the reasons the OF have performed poorly in Europe is through lack of competition.
Sport thrives on competition and even if the standard is of a lower level crowds would improve.
Your Raith/ Dunfermilne/Dundee triangle is a good response.


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## Kaizer_Soze (Jun 15, 2012)

As it now stands my diddy wee club, Raith Rovers, have won more trophy's than Rangers :whoo:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 15, 2012)

Should that not be 'The Rangers'.


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## Paul_Stewart (Jun 15, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			With Rangers the people responsible for the "cheating" have left the club and should never be involved in football again. The fans, most of whom will have supported the club all their lives, are guilty of nothing more than naivety (I'm talking about the corporate governance stuff - not any abuse/thuggery etc that some individuals have done - and all football clubs have an undesirable element in their support - so please nobody toss that back here).
		
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But would that not mean that any team could break any number of rules they ever wanted to and simply get rid of the CEO claiming "the person who was in charge has left" and "you can't punish the fans"?


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## williamalex1 (Jun 15, 2012)

they hav been punished , out of europe for 3 years . 10 points per season , and fined thousands . liquidated . players leaving . assets being sold . burn at the stake maybe next,



Paul_Stewart said:



			But would that not mean that any team could break any number of rules they ever wanted to and simply get rid of the CEO claiming "the person who was in charge has left" and "you can't punish the fans"?
		
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## chris661 (Jun 15, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			they hav been punished , out of europe for 3 years . 10 points per season , and fined thousands . liquidated . players leaving . assets being sold . burn at the stake maybe next,
		
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Garbage. No punishment has been dished out. No europe as you dont meet the criteria (no accounts) players leaving - the club has eased to be in existence. 10 points per season - where did that come from?


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## smange (Jun 15, 2012)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			As it now stands my diddy wee club, Raith Rovers, have won more trophy's than Rangers :whoo:
		
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Awwwww look, a wee team supporter:whoo:


As it stands mate, Burntisland Shipyard have more trophies than Rangers.

Never mind only a season til the wee team will get to play Rangers in the 2nd division, if they manage to get promoted from the 3rd that is


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## NWJocko (Jun 15, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			they hav been punished , out of europe for 3 years . 10 points per season , and fined thousands . liquidated . players leaving . assets being sold . burn at the stake maybe next,
		
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I'm assuming you're a rangers fan!?

What justification do you think there is for keeping them in the spl. I hope they survive but in div 3 in accordance with the rules and regulations they themselves signed up to.

Europe is a nonsense, if they had finished 4th this season and not qualified they would still be up the swanny


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## Yer Maw (Jun 15, 2012)

you're absolutely spot on there mate.  Liverpool moved on decades ago whilst the Old Firm are netrneched and will be decades before they do move on.  I love Liverpool and its people, with some great friends we still visit. I used to play on the irony for Old Firm fans who instantly thought Everton were a Proddy club because of their links with Rangers signings etc!!! 
Used to live in Anfield Rd and still support Everton but that area has declined a lot in recent years even though it was never that great anyway.  Seems they've spent loads on the centre and docksides and left the rest of the town to go to the dogs, but I suppose it's come a long way from 20 years ago.


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## AMcC (Jun 15, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			i just notice your forum name .AMcC. your not ALLY are you ?that would be good
		
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That will be a negative! But just as proud to be a blue nose as Ally is. :thup:


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## AMcC (Jun 15, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Where was that then?


Glasgow City Council??????
		
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Surely you mean any Cooncil


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 15, 2012)

Superpally would never join Bogside.
He's a Loch Lomond player.


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## thecraw (Jun 15, 2012)

AMcC said:



			That will be a negative! But just as proud to be a blue nose as Ally is. :thup:
		
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And as sick!!!!!


:ears:


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## bigslice (Jun 15, 2012)

AMcC said:



			Surely you mean any Cooncil 

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doh surely glasgow catholic cooncil


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## Val (Jun 15, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Wrong the old firm bullied their way to 80% share of sky money.
		
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Not quite my friend, go check the split of TV money

Top 2 get just under 20%

Top gets 10% bottom 9.65%

That's a decent split top to bottom


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## thecraw (Jun 15, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Superpally would never join Bogside.
He's a Loch Lomond player.
		
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That may be true but he's also a member of a club in Bridge of Weir.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

Yer Maw said:



			you're absolutely spot on there mate.  Liverpool moved on decades ago whilst the Old Firm are netrneched and will be decades before they do move on.  I love Liverpool and its people, with some great friends we still visit. I used to play on the irony for Old Firm fans who instantly thought Everton were a Proddy club because of their links with Rangers signings etc!!! 
Used to live in Anfield Rd and still support Everton but that area has declined a lot in recent years even though it was never that great anyway.  Seems they've spent loads on the centre and docksides and left the rest of the town to go to the dogs, but I suppose it's come a long way from 20 years ago.
		
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Yes Liverpool has moved on, even in the 80's there was still the 2/3rds bobble hat thing going on (2/3rds LFC 1'3 rd CFC or RFC) and the same at Goodison. On the kop every match was punctuated by Rangers!Celtic! being chanted depending on your persuasion (I was never bothered). It was funny seeing the daytrippers singing both though!!

TBH I have never seen it as a religious thing but more of a nationalist/Ulster thing, although they are obviously still split down the religious divide also.

Gary Stevens, Trevor Steven, Ray Wilkins, Butcher, Hateley, Gazza, Ibrox under the lights in great European, fantastic atmospheres in Europe is all a long way away now.

Yes Liverpool has vastly improved in the last 20 years, Anfield and Kensington have greatly declined though. I'm a southender.

If your ever down, give me a shout for a game at our gaff. We're about in the Kingdom are you from, I was up at St.Monans for a holiday last year, loved it around there.


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## smange (Jun 15, 2012)

At last some good news for Rangers fans:thup:


Their national team won


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 15, 2012)

Only because Sweden were scared witless as they thought they were playing Scotland in thier blue strip.


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## AuburnWarrior (Jun 15, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes Liverpool has moved on, even in the 80's there was still the 2/3rds bobble hat thing going on (2/3rds LFC 1'3 rd CFC or RFC) and the same at Goodison. On the kop every match was punctuated by Rangers!Celtic! being chanted depending on your persuasion (I was never bothered). It was funny seeing the daytrippers singing both though!!

TBH I have never seen it as a religious thing but more of a nationalist/Ulster thing, although they are obviously still split down the religious divide also.
		
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Sorry to get all religious but hasn't 'you'll never walk alone' gained religious links in England/Scotland?


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## Val (Jun 15, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Sorry to get all religious but hasn't 'you'll never walk alone' gained religious links in England/Scotland?
		
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Not in Scotland


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## AuburnWarrior (Jun 15, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Not in Scotland
		
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Apologies.  I was informed that Celtic started signing it at games.

My info was third hand so delete as applicable.


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## Val (Jun 15, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Apologies.  I was informed that Celtic started signing it at games.

My info was third hand so delete as applicable.
		
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Celtic have been singing it for over 40 years but I don't know what religious element you refer to


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Sorry to get all religious but hasn't 'you'll never walk alone' gained religious links in England/Scotland?
		
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Don't think so. There has been a friendly argument on Liverpool and celtic forums as to who started it first. Both have sung it since the 60's (some celtic claim the 50's), but no religious connotations as far as I know.

Most other footy fans also went through a stage of singing it in the 70's (I have even seen footage of Man U fans singing it).


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## smange (Jun 16, 2012)

Now maybe its my biased opinion but how the hell can this be right?

" if their application for acceptance   as a newco is rejected â€“ will be replaced by Dundee, runners-up in the   Scottish Football League last season"

from this article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ers-to-be-excluded-from-SPL-fixture-list.html

Surely if Rangers are effectively being relegated the team that was actually relegated would be granted a stay of execution?

How on earth do Dundee have the right to be promoted from second place in the first division? Its even funnier that a club who have been in administration *twice* in recent years are going to replace Rangers.

Maybe its just me but arent Dunfermline being a little hard done by here?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 16, 2012)

smange said:



			Now maybe its my biased opinion but how the hell can this be right?

" if their application for acceptance   as a newco is rejected â€“ will be replaced by Dundee, runners-up in the   Scottish Football League last season"

from this article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ers-to-be-excluded-from-SPL-fixture-list.html

Surely if Rangers are effectively being relegated the team that was actually relegated would be granted a stay of execution?

How on earth do Dundee have the right to be promoted from second place in the first division? Its even funnier that a club who have been in administration *twice* in recent years are going to replace Rangers.

Maybe its just me but arent Dunfermline being a little hard done by here?
		
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Most certainly, Dundee were not cheated out of potential points last year, Dunfie were.I'd guess a legal challenge from your team, I'd expect one if it were Hibs that were relegated.


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## chris661 (Jun 16, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Most certainly, Dundee were not cheated out of potential points last year, Dunfie were.I'd guess a legal challenge from your team, I'd expect one if it were Hibs that were relegated.
		
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I would also expect a legal challenge from the likes of Spartans and Edinburgh City if the The Rangers get allowed to waltz straight into the third division.


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## smange (Jun 16, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I would also expect a legal challenge from the likes of Spartans and Edinburgh City if the The Rangers get allowed to waltz straight into the third division.
		
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Anyone starting to get the feeling this is going to be rather messy in the next few weeks.

I can see legal challenges and threats of court action all over the place. If only Rangers had shown some humility here and apologised for years of cheating and asked nicely for permission to start at the bottom again instead of their arrogance in thinking they can just be voted straight back into the SPL.

The more you think about it they should really be starting out in non-league football and earning their way back into the leagues like Ross County and Elgin have and clubs like Spartans have tried for years to do.


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## Paul_Stewart (Jun 16, 2012)

Is there something ironic about Rangers FC's demise being orchestrated by two men named Green and Whyte?


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## wrighty1874 (Jun 16, 2012)

paul_stewart said:



			is there something ironic about rangers fc's demise being orchestrated by two men named green and whyte?
		
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pmsl


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## GreiginFife (Jun 16, 2012)

Paul_Stewart said:



			Is there something ironic about Rangers FC's demise being orchestrated by two men named Green and Whyte?
		
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Just wait for David Gold to get involved...


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 16, 2012)

The SFA are now pressing for a single League system. Trying to get it introduced by the new season


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## williamalex1 (Jun 16, 2012)

greiginfife said:



			just wait for david gold to get involved...
		
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  maybe -t.mobile / orange 2


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## Iaing (Jun 16, 2012)

I might be wrong, but aren't next seasons fixtures published on Monday?


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## chris661 (Jun 17, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I might be wrong, but aren't next seasons fixtures published on Monday?
		
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Yes and seemingly with an x in the place of rangers. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ers-to-be-excluded-from-SPL-fixture-list.html


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## Dodger (Jun 17, 2012)

Reading the paper on the train on the way home today and it seems the Huns are all jizzing over Watty being the main man.

You could not make it up,he has been partly responsible for their downfall yet they want him as their Pied Piper.....clueless the lot of them,they won't be cheering for him when the revelations expand in due course.


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## thecraw (Jun 17, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Reading the paper on the train on the way home today and it seems the Huns are all jizzing over Watty being the main man.

You could not make it up,he has been partly responsible for their downfall yet they want him as their Pied Piper.....clueless the lot of them,they won't be cheering for him when the revelations expand in due course.
		
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Why has he been partly responsible?

He was given the budget to identify players. The money men (lack of money men) made up rules to suit themselves and thrashed out stupid money without paying the tax.

Its Mr Green that I take my hat off too. He's quite clearly seen an avenue to making a lot of money and Watty and co will probably pay him handsomely for Castle Greyskull and Murray park.


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## Dodger (Jun 17, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Why has he been partly responsible?

He was given the budget to identify players. The money men (lack of money men) made up rules to suit themselves and thrashed out stupid money without paying the tax.

Its Mr Green that I take my hat off too. He's quite clearly seen an avenue to making a lot of money and Watty and co will probably pay him handsomely for Castle Greyskull and Murray park.
		
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Rewind a few pagers Crawford,I'm boozzy and can't be arsed but he will become party in the coming weeks re EBT's plus him and his muckers sat around till they died so they could save some coin rather than step up to the plate earlier..............the cardy is playing the game to his own benefit yet the huns cannot see thro it....FACT.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 18, 2012)

club 12 has no home clashes with Celtic, but 9 home clashes with Dundee United.

I think we can safely assume that someone thinks Rangers will be in the SPL next season and Dundee won't.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2012)

Green would be a fool to sell.
I have always assumed he will rent out the grounds to whoever 'manages' The Rangers.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2012)

Just noticed a two week shutdown in January.
Probably to allow Celtic a couple of lucrative away days.

Get the clubs polished boys it looks like good golfing weather in January and snow and ice for Feb!!


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## bladeplayer (Jun 18, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just noticed a two week shutdown in January.
Probably to allow Celtic a couple of lucrative away days.

!!
		
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Could be to allow for the party after the presentation of the trophy  (if rangers are not in it)

Only kidding ,


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## chris661 (Jun 18, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Green would be a fool to sell.I have always assumed he will rent out the grounds to whoever 'manages' The Rangers.
		
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I have a feeling that there might be some legal battles over who actually owns them. Can't see Craig Whyte leaving with nothing in his pocket.


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## Val (Jun 18, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I have a feeling that there might be some legal battles over who actually owns them. Can't see Craig Whyte leaving with nothing in his pocket.
		
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Miles to run yet.


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## Dodger (Jun 18, 2012)

Well they have eventually stated what we already knew,that they have been at it with EBT's.

Hope they throw the book at them on the 4th July.Title stripping is just around the corner,what an utter embarrassment for our game and how the hell that crook Ogilvy is still in his position is beyond me.....the game is rotten to the core in Scotland.  

The further we go the more I am now convinced they will not play anywhere next year as the SFA/SPL could end up with lawsuits being thrown at them if they don't treat the huns the same as they have done with other clubs like Livingston,Gretna etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18496571

The fact that they were fielding ineligible players is known but the bigger scandal is that it was done by McLelland and Bain who were involved at board level within the SPL & SFA.......criminals.


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## thecraw (Jun 18, 2012)

It saddens me but I still think the other SPHELL clubs will vote them back in. 

Was there also not something about Uefa becoming involved because they owe money to clubs in Europe as well? I've sort of given up on the circus going on in the corridors of Castle Greyskull.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 18, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Well they have eventually stated what we already knew,that they have been at it with EBT's.

Hope they throw the book at them on the 4th July.Title stripping is just around the corner,what an utter embarrassment for our game and how the hell that crook Ogilvy is still in his position is beyond me.....the game is rotten to the core in Scotland.  

The further we go the more I am now convinced they will not play anywhere next year as the SFA/SPL could end up with lawsuits being thrown at them if they don't treat the huns the same as they have done with other clubs like Livingston,Gretna etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18496571

The fact that they were fielding ineligible players is known but the bigger scandal is that it was done by McLelland and Bain who were involved at board level within the SPL & SFA.......criminals.
		
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Dodge, how mant titles and cups behind Rangers are you, before the title stripping. May you then overhaul their totals?


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## Dodger (Jun 18, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dodge, how mant titles and cups behind Rangers are you, before the title stripping. May you then overhaul their totals?
		
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It is irrelevant,yes we would but I don't think any Celtic fans cares two hoots about us getting these titles...........the biggest scandal of European Football is unfolding,15 years of cheating and during these years of cheating hierarchy within the games governing body knew it was happening.

As previously stated,if my sources are even anywhere close,this is going to blow people away when the rest of the wrong doings come out.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2012)

Aye and when Mad Vlad had his rant about the Scottish football mafia they all laughed at him.

Do you not think he should ask for a refund of his hefty fine.


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## NWJocko (Jun 18, 2012)

Was there a vote on livi and Gretna staying in the spl or did they not apply to rejoin?

Reading the article on the bbc with the chairmen's comments I fear the newco will be voted back in......

Sincerely hope I'm wrong


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2012)

Most folk in England are unaware that there is two leagues in Scotland. The SPL and the other wee teams three divisions. 
The SFA are desperately trying to enforce a one league structure by the start of the season.

Livingstone were in the wee teams league Div1 when they went bust and were sent down to Div 3 by the wee leagues administration.
Gretna just went bust and dissapeared.


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## SS2 (Jun 18, 2012)

If newco Rangers get voted back into to the SPL it'll be a shameful day for Scottish Football where money comes before honesty and integrity.

The chairman of my club (St Mirren) is hopefully about to complete the sale of the club to a community/fan group. That group's views are crystal clear as far as I can tell: they want oldco Rangers to face justice for their crimes and if that means a drop in St Mirrens's revenue so be it. The club will have to cut their cloth accordingly. If the chairman votes for SPL readmittance it would jeopardise the sale of his club.


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## thecraw (Jun 18, 2012)

SPHELL will always put money first. Dundee United are on a sticky financial wicket, Aberdeen are being kept afloat by Stewart Milne guaranteeing the debt at the bank. Kilmarnock are afloat only due to their profit making hotel and the diet Huns, the ones in Edinburgh without the bus fayre will implode eventually.

Scottish football is down the tubes, with or without Rangers and Celtic for that matter.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 18, 2012)

There are some very successful clubs in Europe that are owned by there fans.
Would it not be great to see that in Scotland, even if the quality was of a lower standard at least we could take a bit of pride in not being mega rich mens playthings.
Some of my Rangers friends I believe would welcome a move to Div 3. 
A clean start with a chance to build a decent club.
There have been glory hunters who have supported Rangers for all the wrong reasons. You will not see them at Arbroath or Annan, they will have no stomach for a genuine fightback.


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## Paul_Stewart (Jun 19, 2012)

It looks like Five and S Club 7 are making a comeback..They've joined together to play in the Scottish Premier League..Club 12.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 19, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dodge, how mant titles and cups behind Rangers are you, before the title stripping. May you then overhaul their totals?
		
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A little discussed fact is that Celtic used EBT's once, to pay the wee lad Juninho.So that season if Celtic and Rangers were using ebt's, the actual winners of the league that season was my team, Hibs!...let me have my moment, it's about the only way we'll see silverware @ ER.


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## chris661 (Jun 19, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			A little discussed fact is that Celtic used EBT's once, to pay the wee lad Juninho.So that season if Celtic and Rangers were using ebt's, the actual winners of the league that season was my team, Hibs!...let me have my moment, it's about the only way we'll see silverware @ ER.
		
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But Celtic paid the tax that was due on it.......


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 19, 2012)

chris661 said:



			But Celtic paid the tax that was due on it.......
		
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you're spoiling my wee fantasy with cold hard facts, please stop it!


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## chris661 (Jun 19, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			you're spoiling my wee fantasy with cold hard facts, please stop it!
		
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 :lol:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 19, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			A little discussed fact is that Celtic used EBT's once, to pay the wee lad Juninho.So that season if Celtic and Rangers were using ebt's, the actual winners of the league that season was my team, Hibs!...let me have my moment, it's about the only way we'll see silverware @ ER.
		
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What are EBT's?


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## chris661 (Jun 19, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			What are EBT's?
		
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this might explain EBT's


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 19, 2012)

chris661 said:



this might explain EBT's

Click to expand...

Thanks Chris, thought I was missing something obvious.


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## StuartD (Jun 19, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			you're spoiling my wee fantasy with cold hard facts, please stop it!
		
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I AM STILL HERE DODGER 

Cold hard facts that are completely wrong 

The tax investigation and football investigation are approaching Rangersâ€™s EBT from completely different angles 

If Celtic have paid the tax back that would only clear them from an HMRC investigation. 

Juninhoâ€™s contract would have to state how much he was being paid for footballing activities which should include his weekly salary and the money he was drawing from an EBT to be clear from any Football authority investigation

Also Celtic may still win league that year anyway as only games that Juninho played could be voided anyway and Celtic were a lot of point clear of Hibs. Note only games that Celtic gained points in that Juninho played would make a difference to their total.


I have followed this thread with interest and have had a good laugh the amount of wrong information that has been on here, some of which I will attempt to put right. Some may see my rantings as a view from a bitter bluenose but I shall leave it up to you to decide


*â€œSystematic Cheating for 20 Yearsâ€*

The period under investigation is from 2000 â€“ 2010 (only!!) for use of EBTâ€™s from a football and Tax investigation. Rangers paid Â£39 million into an EBT fund which is the amount HMRC are chasing plus they want penalties and interest added.

EBTâ€™s are not illegal and have been widely used by many companies as a form of Tax avoidance which should not be confused with Tax evasion. An EBT allows an employee (mostly used at director level) to draw a sum of money as a loan. The interest payable is 8% (I think) which is much less than tax and NI at around 25% approx depending on your tax bracket. Therefore drawing from an EBT would save an employee a lot on tax and NI. 

EBTâ€™s have been widely used to pay bonuses but HMRC closed this loophole at around 2010.

So why are Rangers being pursued by HMRC?

A yearly bonus from an EBT would not have caused too much fuss from HMRC but their argument is that the amount of times staff were drawing from Rangers EBT makes it a form of tax evasion rather than avoidance. The company that advised RFC on EBTâ€™s are now defunct. An ex employee has stated though that RFC went way beyond what they were advised. The info I know on the ex â€“chairman leads me to believe that he thought he was untouchable and could do what he wishes in the business world. I certainly would not disagree with the thoughts that RFC went too far.

It has been reported that up to 8 clubs in the EPL have also being using EBTâ€™s but Rangers has been seen as the test case for HMRC as their scheme has had the most funds been drawn. Basically if Rangers are found not guilty the HMRC have almost no chance of winning any other cases. As each playerâ€™s case is unique it becomes a long drawn out investigation and this is probably why a verdict has not come back yet. In my opinion Rangers will certainly be found guilty in some cases, For instance it has been reported that Sasa Papac salary dropped from one season to the next but the funds he drew from the EBT went up. Quite clearly tax evasion in my opinion. How much Rangers will be find is open to debate.

Why now Football Authority Investigation?
This is where the â€œdual contractsâ€ have been brought up. From the recent BBC investigation no dual contracts have been found. What has been uncovered is letters from RFC to players saying they can apply from funds from an EBT. The letters do not state that money would be definitely be paid out (do wonder if anybody was refused though) and therefore in my opinion cannot be contractual, so therefore are Rangers innocent? 
Not quite. SFA rules state that a player must only have one contract BUT the contract must state how much the players are being paid for footballing activities. I think Rangers fall down here as all players registered paperwork at the SFA does not state anything about payments from an EBT. For Rangers to be clear then the money paid to players from the EBT canâ€™t be for football. If the monies are not for football then what the hell are they for???? 

My only complaint is why have the football authorities taken so long. RFC accounts supplied to the SPL (supplied every year for licence approval) have included funds paid into the EBT every year. The press even carried reports on the structure of the EBT in 2000 after the funding for the scheme was queried at an AGM in 2000 after it appeared in the accounts for the first time. I was at this AGM and the EBT scheme sounded good but I had I known about player registration contracts etc back then I would certainly have stood up at the time. Maybe Campbell Ogilvie (Now SFA Secretary, previously RFC Sec.) should have!!!! Although he was no longer working on player registrations on a day to day basis he surely knew the ins and outs and as he was using the EBT fund it certainly should have set alarm bells ringing


The Whyte Year.

It has been said that Craig Whyte deliberately stopped paying NI and VAT to fund transfers for new players. Us some of the fees have been undisclosed It is very difficult to establish if this is true or not.

Certainly with failing to make the CL group stages it makes this scenario far more probable.

What can be said though is that Whyte stopped paying VAT and NI from the day he arrived, well before the possibility of cash shortages with failure to reach the CL groups. Coupled with the fact that when he arrived a large bundle of cash from Season Tickets renewals was on the doorstep so there should have been no shortfall of cash to pay HMRC at this point

Also it has been stated by the previous regime that RFC would make a yearly loss of Â£10 million without CL football. 

However Whyte had got Â£27 million from Ticketus of which he paid Â£18million to Lloyds to buy the club and pay off the overdraft This would leave him with a Â£9 million surplus coupled with the transfer of Jelavic, sell on fee for Adam moving to Liverpool and the sale of Arsenal shares should really mean that he could realistically been thereabouts on having enough cash to see him through the season. It must also be noted that the cash surplus from Ticketus, first instalment of sale of jelevic and money for Arsenal shares has NEVER gone into an RFC account at any time
The missing monies have been paid into Whyteâ€™s lawyers account (Collier Bristow) but from there they go missing. Rangersâ€™ administrators have taken court Action against Whyte to recover monies

My take on the Wyte year?
Quite why anybody would buy the club and take on the potential bill to HMRC I have no idea?

It was possible the club would be hit by a Â£50 million bill and be forced into admin as they would not be able to pay it. My thinking is that Whyte thought it may as well be Â£60 million.

Also one good thing to come out of liquidation is that a full investigation can be done on the RFC takeover by Whyte




Comparisons with Livi and Gretna

Lots of statements about how these clubs were treated differently but in truth the cases are different.

Livingston was in the SPL the first time they went into admin in 2004 and faced no penalty from the SPL. There were no admin rules at the time so there can be no complaints from me.

The second time they went into admin in 2009 they were not even in the SPL. They entered liquidation which was stopped a day later when the SFA, administrators and potential investors reached agreement to keep club afloat.

By this time they had missed a bond payment from to SFL and other breaches of insolvency rules resulted in the SFL of demoting them to the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] division. This I would agree was very tough as a group had been trying to buy the club, with help from administrators, for months. 


Gretna who was already bottom of the league went into Admin and was docked 10 points by the SPL. The SPL then funded them to the end of season by advancing TV money (SPL should maybe have funded clubs out of pocket from RFC by advancing RFC share to them). Gretna were then relegated to the SFL as they finished bottom of SPL
No buyer for Gretna was found and they were wound up by liquidators as no CVA was possible.





May get round to writing more regarding SFA punishment, why I think we should go to the SFL, 8-4 vote myths and TV money if anybody is interested


Sorry from a Rangers shareholder and fan


FairwayDodger, me and you need to arrange a game sometime and get away from all this :lol:


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## Mungoscorner (Jun 19, 2012)

Excellent post Stuart. 
Facts are always better than hearsay and propaganda.
Can i join you and Fairwaydodger for a game ?


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## Dodger (Jun 19, 2012)

StuartD said:



			I AM STILL HERE DODGER 

Cold hard facts that are completely wrong 

The tax investigation and football investigation are approaching Rangersâ€™s EBT from completely different angles 

If Celtic have paid the tax back that would only clear them from an HMRC investigation. 

Juninhoâ€™s contract would have to state how much he was being paid for footballing activities which should include his weekly salary and the money he was drawing from an EBT to be clear from any Football authority investigation

Also Celtic may still win league that year anyway as only games that Juninho played could be voided anyway and Celtic were a lot of point clear of Hibs. Note only games that Celtic gained points in that Juninho played would make a difference to their total.


I have followed this thread with interest and have had a good laugh the amount of wrong information that has been on here, some of which I will attempt to put right. Some may see my rantings as a view from a bitter bluenose but I shall leave it up to you to decide


*â€œSystematic Cheating for 20 Yearsâ€*

The period under investigation is from 2000 â€“ 2010 (only!!) for use of EBTâ€™s from a football and Tax investigation. Rangers paid Â£39 million into an EBT fund which is the amount HMRC are chasing plus they want penalties and interest added.

EBTâ€™s are not illegal and have been widely used by many companies as a form of Tax avoidance which should not be confused with Tax evasion. An EBT allows an employee (mostly used at director level) to draw a sum of money as a loan. The interest payable is 8% (I think) which is much less than tax and NI at around 25% approx depending on your tax bracket. Therefore drawing from an EBT would save an employee a lot on tax and NI. 

EBTâ€™s have been widely used to pay bonuses but HMRC closed this loophole at around 2010.

So why are Rangers being pursued by HMRC?

A yearly bonus from an EBT would not have caused too much fuss from HMRC but their argument is that the amount of times staff were drawing from Rangers EBT makes it a form of tax evasion rather than avoidance. The company that advised RFC on EBTâ€™s are now defunct. An ex employee has stated though that RFC went way beyond what they were advised. The info I know on the ex â€“chairman leads me to believe that he thought he was untouchable and could do what he wishes in the business world. I certainly would not disagree with the thoughts that RFC went too far.

It has been reported that up to 8 clubs in the EPL have also being using EBTâ€™s but Rangers has been seen as the test case for HMRC as their scheme has had the most funds been drawn. Basically if Rangers are found not guilty the HMRC have almost no chance of winning any other cases. As each playerâ€™s case is unique it becomes a long drawn out investigation and this is probably why a verdict has not come back yet. In my opinion Rangers will certainly be found guilty in some cases, For instance it has been reported that Sasa Papac salary dropped from one season to the next but the funds he drew from the EBT went up. Quite clearly tax evasion in my opinion. How much Rangers will be find is open to debate.

Why now Football Authority Investigation?
This is where the â€œdual contractsâ€ have been brought up. From the recent BBC investigation no dual contracts have been found. What has been uncovered is letters from RFC to players saying they can apply from funds from an EBT. The letters do not state that money would be definitely be paid out (do wonder if anybody was refused though) and therefore in my opinion cannot be contractual, so therefore are Rangers innocent? 
Not quite. SFA rules state that a player must only have one contract BUT the contract must state how much the players are being paid for footballing activities. I think Rangers fall down here as all players registered paperwork at the SFA does not state anything about payments from an EBT. For Rangers to be clear then the money paid to players from the EBT canâ€™t be for football. If the monies are not for football then what the hell are they for???? 

My only complaint is why have the football authorities taken so long. RFC accounts supplied to the SPL (supplied every year for licence approval) have included funds paid into the EBT every year. The press even carried reports on the structure of the EBT in 2000 after the funding for the scheme was queried at an AGM in 2000 after it appeared in the accounts for the first time. I was at this AGM and the EBT scheme sounded good but I had I known about player registration contracts etc back then I would certainly have stood up at the time. Maybe Campbell Ogilvie (Now SFA Secretary, previously RFC Sec.) should have!!!! Although he was no longer working on player registrations on a day to day basis he surely knew the ins and outs and as he was using the EBT fund it certainly should have set alarm bells ringing


The Whyte Year.

It has been said that Craig Whyte deliberately stopped paying NI and VAT to fund transfers for new players. Us some of the fees have been undisclosed It is very difficult to establish if this is true or not.

Certainly with failing to make the CL group stages it makes this scenario far more probable.

What can be said though is that Whyte stopped paying VAT and NI from the day he arrived, well before the possibility of cash shortages with failure to reach the CL groups. Coupled with the fact that when he arrived a large bundle of cash from Season Tickets renewals was on the doorstep so there should have been no shortfall of cash to pay HMRC at this point

Also it has been stated by the previous regime that RFC would make a yearly loss of Â£10 million without CL football. 

However Whyte had got Â£27 million from Ticketus of which he paid Â£18million to Lloyds to buy the club and pay off the overdraft This would leave him with a Â£9 million surplus coupled with the transfer of Jelavic, sell on fee for Adam moving to Liverpool and the sale of Arsenal shares should really mean that he could realistically been thereabouts on having enough cash to see him through the season. It must also be noted that the cash surplus from Ticketus, first instalment of sale of jelevic and money for Arsenal shares has NEVER gone into an RFC account at any time
The missing monies have been paid into Whyteâ€™s lawyers account (Collier Bristow) but from there they go missing. Rangersâ€™ administrators have taken court Action against Whyte to recover monies

My take on the Wyte year?
Quite why anybody would buy the club and take on the potential bill to HMRC I have no idea?

It was possible the club would be hit by a Â£50 million bill and be forced into admin as they would not be able to pay it. My thinking is that Whyte thought it may as well be Â£60 million.

Also one good thing to come out of liquidation is that a full investigation can be done on the RFC takeover by Whyte




Comparisons with Livi and Gretna

Lots of statements about how these clubs were treated differently but in truth the cases are different.

Livingston was in the SPL the first time they went into admin in 2004 and faced no penalty from the SPL. There were no admin rules at the time so there can be no complaints from me.

The second time they went into admin in 2009 they were not even in the SPL. They entered liquidation which was stopped a day later when the SFA, administrators and potential investors reached agreement to keep club afloat.

By this time they had missed a bond payment from to SFL and other breaches of insolvency rules resulted in the SFL of demoting them to the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] division. This I would agree was very tough as a group had been trying to buy the club, with help from administrators, for months. 


Gretna who was already bottom of the league went into Admin and was docked 10 points by the SPL. The SPL then funded them to the end of season by advancing TV money (SPL should maybe have funded clubs out of pocket from RFC by advancing RFC share to them). Gretna were then relegated to the SFL as they finished bottom of SPL
No buyer for Gretna was found and they were wound up by liquidators as no CVA was possible.





May get round to writing more regarding SFA punishment, why I think we should go to the SFL, 8-4 vote myths and TV money if anybody is interested


Sorry from a Rangers shareholder and fan


FairwayDodger, me and you need to arrange a game sometime and get away from all this :lol:
		
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Brilliant,I knew a bit of baiting would have you back!

Tell me what punishment you have had Stuart?10 points when your clown of a gaffer had lost you the league anyway?You have not had a punishment.....yet.

I am all ears.Good to see you admitting the fact your club has been cheating though regardless of the years involved.

One last question,have you arranged a march against the Magic Cardigan yet.....it must surely be in the offing.
Oh and another couple,where do you think you will be playing next season? Genuine question....and do you agree that more is set to come out about the dodgy going on?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 19, 2012)

Looks like the Walter Smith group bid has been withdrawn


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## AMcC (Jun 19, 2012)

Good post Stuart, very well written.

The players as well having been paid for footballing work may have have been using their income from commercial activities in their native country as a way of reducing their tax liability in this country.  Which maybe explains why the likes of de Boer, Klos etc who were generally named as beneficiaries of the ebt. But how could you explain that for Barry Ferguson.

This teddy bears golf outing is growing all the time !!


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## AMcC (Jun 19, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Brilliant,I knew a bit of baiting would have you back!

Tell me what punishment you have had Stuart?10 points when your clown of a gaffer had lost you the league anyway?You have not had a punishment.....yet.

I am all ears.Good to see you admitting the fact your club has been cheating though regardless of the years involved.

One last question,have you arranged a march against the Magic Cardigan yet.....it must surely be in the offing.
Oh and another couple,where do you think you will be playing next season? Genuine question....and do you agree that more is set to come out about the dodgy going on?
		
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I think most of the Rangers fans now agree on the wrongdoings of previous management of the club, but no one had any clue of what was happening.  One of my mates questioned in the early years, how much money has Murray actually put in from his own pocket.  Recent investigations note that it was almost entirely funded through his bank !!! Always made out HE was doing it !

Personally I am now of the opinion we should go to division 3, if accepted, rebuild from a solid base and work our way back through the leagues,I am sure more of our fans are also thinking this way.


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## Dodger (Jun 19, 2012)

I picked up on a tweet by the Ch4 journo earlier who's saying he has it on good authority things are to explode very soon....I also saw a reply alleging 2 prominent Ref's are about to be exposed as being paid by Rangers.:rofl:

Now,really,I do not believe the latter will happen but could you imaging how funny that would be!!

It is becoming hard to keep up with and my opinion on what the end outcome will be are changing with every turn and I now think that possibly the Newco will end up in admin too.

I also cannot understand why any of the press have asked any questions re Souness's Â£30k he got long after he left the club but hey that's the spineless media for you.

One thing is for sure is here's a picture of the squad for next season.


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## thecraw (Jun 20, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I picked up on a tweet by the Ch4 journo earlier who's saying he has it on good authority things are to explode very soon....I also saw a reply alleging 2 prominent Ref's are about to be exposed as being paid by Rangers.:rofl:

Now,really,I do not believe the latter will happen but could you imaging how funny that would be!!

It is becoming hard to keep up with and my opinion on what the end outcome will be are changing with every turn and I now think that possibly the Newco will end up in admin too.

I also cannot understand why any of the press have asked any questions re Souness's Â£30k he got long after he left the club but hey that's the spineless media for you.

One thing is for sure is here's a picture of the squad for next season.






Click to expand...




Do you attend Church Guild coffee mornings by chance as I'm sure you'd fit right in!!!


:rofl:


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## StuartD (Jun 20, 2012)

Punishments


Have RFC been punished? The answer from me is a resounding YESâ€¦â€¦â€¦followed by a bigger resounding NO.

RFC were docked 10 points and a signing embargo placed on them by the SPL when they went into administration as per the rules. They would have also been docked 10 points for the coming season if they were still fighting for a CVA. They were also fined the maximum Â£50000 by the SFA in accordance with the SFA rule book.

It should also be noted that RFC have been the only Scottish club to be hit by an additional â€œbringing the game into disreputeâ€ charge for going into Administration (more about disrepute charge later). The SFA can bring a disrepute on any club/person who has not acted in the best interests of the game. Why were Dundee (in Admin for second time in 5 years) not hit with a disrepute charge last season? Therefore it could be argued that RFC have had more punishments than any other club for going into Admin. 

Are the received punishments enough? Of course their not, but itâ€™s hardly RFCâ€™s fault the SPL rule book does not provide much of a deterrent for going into Admin. In early days there were no deterrents and MFC had no points penalty and even signed players whilst in Admin. After complaints from PTFC who lost players to MFC a signing embargo for going into Admin was brought in. This was a deterrent at the time but has since been rendered pretty useless with the introduction of the Transfer Window. The SPL and SFA have had plenty of time to implement strong sanctions but have failed to do so.


The SFA disrepute charge brought a max Â£110,000 fine and the now infamous transfer embargo for a year. . I have no complaints about the disrepute charge as Craig Whyte deliberately set out to take the club into Admin. Some fans argue that only he should be punished as RFC previously had a good record (potential EBT charge aside) compared to other SPL clubs but in corporate law Craig Whyte is RFC and vice versa

Not sure if the disrepute fine is even payable as a result of admin but for a disrepute charge the other possible actions were Suspension from game, kick RFC out of football or a Scottish cup ban (no set period of time specified). The SFA decided to call in a judiciary panel to decide the punishment.  In SFA rules a judiciary panel can bring in any sanction they see fit and ignore the listed sanctions in the rule book. Only the SFA can decide to bring in the judiciary panel and this is where the SFA rules fell down in court and they were ordered to pick a punishment from the listed sanctions in the rule book.

The signing embargo did make the possible selling of the club difficult. As a member of the RST I received a copy of the SFA report on why this punishment was selected and it stated the maximum fine was far too punitive (totally agree) and that a suspension kicking out of football was too severe (again I agree).  The report made no mention of why the other possible sanction (ban from Scottish cup) was not selected. A 3 to 5 year ban could have been reasonable sanction. So why did the SFA not choose this sanction, plainly because they are looking for a new sponsor.

Where do RFC/Newco/Sevco go?

For me it has to be SFL 3. the new SPL rules on Newco (we make it up as we go along) are just a waste of time. From a sporting point of view itâ€™s the best decision and if other SPL 
Chairmen listen to their fans it is the only option. But since when have football clubs put their loyal customers first? If clubs can get over any possible short term revenue slumps, Scottish Football will come out stronger in my opinion.

It would appear that some clubs want RFC in the SPL for revenue purposes. They want RFC there but want to deny RFC their share of the revenue. Possible penalties included withholding Prize money. If Rangers got to position x in the league they are entitled to the prize money. I could take it if the money was withheld and used to fund grass roots football but it was to be distributed to the other clubs. â€œWe need you there to provide revenue but we take your shareâ€ is not acceptable in my opinion

Souness EBT

For our friends down south the BBC documentary revealed that Souness was paid from the RFC EBT some 10 years after leaving the club. Souness refused to give an interview (maybe out of Loyalty to our ex chairman but reason is unknown) The BBC stated that he did not give an interview and they did not know why he was paid the monies but the BBC went on to state that 5 weeks later Souness signed Tugay from Rangers. No allegations were made (for obvious legal perspective) but it was obvious we were left to think this was a bung.

Could well possible be true. Souness has signed 3 players from Rangers, Tugay, Ferguson and Boumsong (for Newcastle) that I can think off. From the BBC investigation it appears he only got a fee for one of these transfers (or bung). I would say that Tugay is the one player he got a good deal on and would be far more likely to take a bung for the other 2 inflated fees he paid for either Boumsong and Ferguson.

Souness became a director and a shareholder in RFC a couple of years before he left. His shareholding at the time was one of the largest outside of Dave King and our ex chairman. What I do know from someone close to me who used to work for our ex chairman is that Souness has been paid dividends. Maybe one of these has been made through the EBT. In the interest of fairness maybe the BBC could have suggested this but it would not have been nearly as interesting would it?

Anyway time to go back to work


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## Dodger (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for taking the time Stuart,a little bit of the usual bitter Rangers 'Why pick on us,we haven't done that much really' but on the whole some good answers of which a couple I can nearly agree with.

I am pretty sure that at the time of the Boumsong sale my pal who worked at the time for the Journal in the Toon said he had it on good authority the Tache had taken a 'bung' as part of the deal.....maybe he was correct,I am sure it will come out in the wash along with many other dodgy doings over the next couple of weeks.

You did however fail to answer if there is a march planned against Wattie yet.:whoo:


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## Mungoscorner (Jun 20, 2012)

Another excellent post Stuart.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

Another Â£11m bid in.
More like what Mr Green envisaged I think.


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## Farneyman (Jun 20, 2012)

I am reading online that the Stephen McKenna that is part of this new bid, is the same guy who paid 15,000 to play in Phil O Donnell tribute/charity match.

This is becoming more interesting....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...il-o-donnell-at-charity-match-86908-20429851/

Details of latest bid... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18527811

Is this one of the greatest windups or a genuine football fan trying to help out?


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## Dodger (Jun 20, 2012)

Farneyman said:



			I am reading online that the Stephen McKenna that is part of this new bid, is the same guy who paid 15,000 to play in Phil O Donnell tribute/charity match.

This is becoming more interesting....

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...il-o-donnell-at-charity-match-86908-20429851/

Details of latest bid... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18527811

Is this one of the greatest windups or a genuine football fan trying to help out?
		
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ST holder at Paradise allegedly.:rofl:


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## chris661 (Jun 20, 2012)

:rofl: it really is the gift that keeps on giving. The the rangers fans will be going ballistic with this news.


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## StuartD (Jun 20, 2012)

Mmmmmm

This came just after Charles Green releases a statement urging rangers fans to back him. Statement basically said I am the man to take rangers forward. I may not be everybodies cup of tea but you could get a lot worse. 

Lo and behold a Celtic fan and another man who has been banned from holding a company director position (same as Whyte) come riding over the horizon with a new bid. Fantastic timing. Also seriously doubt they have the financial clout to raise the money

Or maybe the could be the best thing for rangers and am just getting cynical in my old age


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## Iaing (Jun 20, 2012)

Hmm.
Property Developers. And seemingly Celtic supporting ones at that.
Either a wind up or the vultures are hovering over the big hoose.


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## williamalex1 (Jun 20, 2012)

according to sources ally mc coist could quit rangers today ; a supporter said should this happen it will be the worst day in our 5 day history!


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## Dodger (Jun 20, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Mmmmmm

This came just after Charles Green releases a statement urging rangers fans to back him. Statement basically said I am the man to take rangers forward. I may not be everybodies cup of tea but you could get a lot worse. 

Lo and behold a Celtic fan and another man who has been banned from holding a company director position (same as Whyte) come riding over the horizon with a new bid. Fantastic timing. Also seriously doubt they have the financial clout to raise the money

Or maybe the could be the best thing for rangers and am just getting cynical in my old age 

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There WILL be a march for them surely though????:whoo::rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

Ok I think we have enough detail for a film now.

Comedy?
Tragedy?

Who will we cast as the actors?
Del Boy Trotter as Mr Green


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## SS2 (Jun 21, 2012)

Marty Feldman as Craig Whyte (they have the same eyes)


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## GB72 (Jun 21, 2012)

Is there anything behind the story that Rangers are looking to buy Bury FC to gain entry into into English League one?


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## AMcC (Jun 21, 2012)

GB72 said:



			Is there anything behind the story that Rangers are looking to buy Bury FC to gain entry into into English League one?
		
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Just been strenuously denied by the Bury chairman in a interview on sky sports news.  He said " as long as the directors and him were there it would not happen". So what happens when he is not there ?.?


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## chris661 (Jun 21, 2012)

AMcC said:



			Just been strenuously denied by the Bury chairman in a interview on sky sports news.  He said " as long as the directors and him were there it would not happen". So what happens when he is not there ?.?
		
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The two FA's will step in then uefa/FIFA would step in.


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## Dodger (Jun 21, 2012)

Rangers to be buried again eh?

Each and every day gives me side splitting moments courtesy of TRFC.:rofl:


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## StuartD (Jun 21, 2012)

Dodger said:



			a little bit of the usual bitter Rangers 'Why pick on us,we haven't done that much really'
		
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Sorry dodger, been lurking on Follow Follow a bit this week. I shall try to resist and maybe rise above it :rofl:





Dodger said:



			I am pretty sure that at the time of the Boumsong sale my pal who worked at the time for the Journal in the Toon said he had it on good authority the Tache had taken a 'bung' as part of the deal.....
		
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Never heard anything about Souness, but plenty of rumours about Martin Bain and holiday homes in France

Ran out of time to answer about Walter Yesterday. Basically got asked by my boss what i had been doing all morning. What is your angle on Walter? His hear today gone tomorrow bid after cva failure oor perhaps he had an EBT?


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## Slab (Jun 21, 2012)

Sounds like we're entering the begining of the end of the new begining....Vlads just gone on the attack nuclear style!!

plenty of news stories for you to google (other search engines are available)


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 21, 2012)

Slab said:



			Sounds like we're entering the begining of the end of the new begining....Vlads just gone on the attack nuclear style!!

plenty of news stories for you to google (other search engines are available)
		
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http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20120621/vr-statement_2241384_2818454


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## Dodger (Jun 21, 2012)

Vlad should really get away from sitting on the fence.....:rofl:


_*"The opinion of Heart of Midlothian FC in regards to the current situation of Scottish football is clear and robust.*_
_"The football mafia represented by former owners of Rangers FC and Rupert Murdoch's media are to blame for some of the worst problems to hit Scottish football and must not be allowed back in under any circumstances._
_"As regards the club itself, we can only express our deepest condolences to its supporters, who have been lied to for so many years._
_"It had to happen sooner or later. Victories were achieved not by sporting merits, but through slander, conspiracies amongst players and their poaching via third parties, unfair pressuring of referees, who in themselves are as valuable to the fabric of football as the football stars themselves._
_"All of this brought hollow victories and destroyed football. We can also mention the attempts to eliminate Hearts with the help of the tax petitions, through false accusations and threats to revoke the club license. There is a saying about digging a grave for someone: you get it for yourself â€¦_
_"Without these people football will become cleaner and stronger. Without Murdoch the whole of society will improve, in particular sport and culture._
_"Supporters deserve a new beginning and have to accept the fact that their club has to start from the lower league, keeping order in the SPL and without creating unfair competition with other clubs._
_"As regards the pitiful state of Scottish football finances, a lot of the blame should be placed at the doors of Murdoch's media. They pay huge sums to English clubs, whilst in Scotland, where football is better supported per capita than anywhere else in Europe and there are more cable or Sky subscribers per capita than in England, clubs receive peanuts for their broadcasting rights._
_"At the very least this is discrimination and protectionism for the English football product, which at the same time stunts the development of the game in Scotland, that is regarded as the cradle of football._
_"I feel that it is absolutely realistic to create a company that would bring to Scottish clubs at least the same broadcasting income, and even grow it by 50-100% over the next two to three years. This company should be in the hands of Scottish clubs and work with those who want to earn money the honest way, instead of conducting business the Murdoch way._
_"They have lived beyond law and all morals, and should now be declared beyond the pale. A society that allows the destruction of integrity in sport, which is a crucial part of Scottish culture, is destroying itself - and all for the benefit of a media aborigine."


_


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2012)

Good ol Vlad
I knew he could not keep this one under his hat.
Fairly refrained from him, did not use the word 'establishment' once.
What made me smile was folk on here earlier saying that Hearts would vote for The Rangers. There was never a chance.


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## StuartD (Jun 21, 2012)

Dundee utd just released statement saying they are also a NO. 3 more to go


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## chris661 (Jun 21, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Dundee utd just released statement saying they are also a NO. 3 more to go
		
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I would imagine it is pretty much a stick on. Just need to see if/what the SFA do with regards to a) the appellate tribunal resitting and b) the payments out with contracts issue. 

I would imagine there is also a real possibility that the the rangers go back into admin reasonably quickly.


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## Iaing (Jun 21, 2012)

These caught my eye today.



Think they might be quite stale before they're needed. :ears:


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## StuartD (Jun 21, 2012)

Iaing said:



			These caught my eye today.
View attachment 2002


Think they might be quite stale before they're needed. :ears:
		
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Don't be too sure. The ramsdens cup is the first piece of silverware to be handed out next season:whoo:


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## Dodger (Jun 21, 2012)

Game is well and truly up,good,a step towards justice but hopefully more to come.

If they are lucky we may just see you at Shielfield next season Stuart,I'll let you park on my drive and won't even charge you a quid Mister.:ears:


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## Bobirdie (Jun 21, 2012)

From what i gather most rangers fans i speak to want to go to the third division and serve the punishment, they dont want voted in by the other teams.

i think either or they will never be the team they were.if they go to the 3rd div, they will have to make drastic cut backs and i cant see them playing there football out of ibrox. cant see people paying 500 per year for a season book to see the likes of east stirling. however i may be wrong


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## StuartD (Jun 21, 2012)

Dodger said:



			If they are lucky we may just see you at Shielfield next season Stuart,I'll let you park on my drive and won't even charge you a quid Mister.:ears:
		
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Aye it will be 2 quid ya thief


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## Dodger (Jun 21, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Aye it will be 2 quid ya thief
		
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Â£1.25...it's the needy that'll be parked there after all.:ears:

Â£500 notes to watch North Northumberland league fitbaw eh?

Back to the crowds of pre Tache I feel.:whoo:


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## Iaing (Jun 21, 2012)

Have Celtic actually given any indication which way they'll vote or is everyone just assuming that they'll vote no ?


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## Dodger (Jun 21, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Have Celtic actually given any indication which way they'll vote or is everyone just assuming that they'll vote no ?
		
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None,Fans pressure would say no but.......

If they say yes there will be hell on from their own fans, but....


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## chris661 (Jun 21, 2012)

Has Peter Lawell not already come out and said that Celtic dont need the rangers to be financially viable?

ps have sevco sorted out a name yet?


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## williamalex1 (Jun 21, 2012)

some turkeys are voting for christmas to come early


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## Iaing (Jun 21, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Has Peter Lawell not already come out and said that Celtic dont need the rangers to be financially viable?

ps have sevco sorted out a name yet?
		
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Not quite the same as stating they'll vote no Chris.


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## Dodger (Jun 21, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Not quite the same as stating they'll vote no Chris. 

Click to expand...

There will be no vote.

Application will be withdrawn.


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## Val (Jun 21, 2012)

I reckon it will eventually be 11-1 against with RFC (IL) the only one to vote yet, Killie will be the only others to vote yes but will change their mind once the vote get cast.


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## thecraw (Jun 22, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			some turkeys are voting for christmas to come early
		
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In your dreams.


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## chrisd (Jun 22, 2012)

Bobirdie said:



			cant see people paying 500 per year for a season book to see the likes of east stirling. however i may be wrong
		
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Couldn't see why they would pay that to see the likes of Celtic!


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## StuartD (Jun 22, 2012)

Dodger said:



			There will be no vote.

Application will be withdrawn.
		
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Agree 100%


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## DelB (Jun 22, 2012)

Aberdeen confirmed this morning as joining Hearts and Dundee United in going public on a 'no' vote. :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 22, 2012)

I am certain that Petrie said Hibs would vote no.
With Hearts, Hibs. Dundee Utd and Aberdeen all saying no it is difficult to see where The Rangers will get any votes. [Other than Killie.]
The SFA had better let the fans know which way the clubs voted or there will be blood on the carpet.


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## smange (Jun 22, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I am certain that Petrie said Hibs would vote no.
With Hearts, Hibs. Dundee Utd and Aberdeen all saying no it is difficult to see where The Rangers will get any votes. [Other than Killie.]
The SFA had better let the fans know which way the clubs voted or there will be blood on the carpet.
		
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I think every club owes it to their own supporters to let them know which way they voted and to give a full explanation of why they voted that way. 

Any club voting yes can expect a backlash from its own fans and expect a loss in season ticket sales and home attendances. 

On another note can anyone please explain to me why Dundee F.C seem to be favourites to take place of Rangers in the SPL if they dont get back in? Surely it should be Dunfermline or am I missing something here due to my obvious bias towards Dunfermline.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 22, 2012)

Smange....quite agree with you.
It does not seem like natural justice to me. Rangers were in the same league as Dunfermline. Rangers cheated the 11 other clubs.
Dundee were also a very poor second to The Staggies.

Then....to allow cheating Old Rangers a vote on whither The Rangers with the same players and manager should be allowed to stay in the SPL whilst Dunfermline are not allowed a vote is just a total nonsense.


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## smange (Jun 22, 2012)

Thats the way I see it as well DfT

Dont quite understand why Dundee have any right to even ask for the place.

They would need to hurry up and make a definite decision either way as both Dunfermline and Dundee are preparing squads for the first division and would need some time to adjust their thinking towards an SPL squad


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 22, 2012)

smange said:



			I think every club owes it to their own supporters to let them know which way they voted and to give a full explanation of why they voted that way. 

Any club voting yes can expect a backlash from its own fans and expect a loss in season ticket sales and home attendances. 

On another note can anyone please explain to me why Dundee F.C seem to be favourites to take place of Rangers in the SPL if they dont get back in? Surely it should be Dunfermline or am I missing something here due to my obvious bias towards Dunfermline.
		
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Play off between the two, seems fair, home and away. No trophy though.


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## thecraw (Jun 22, 2012)

Dunfermline were relegated, Dundee were 2nd in league 1, therefore they get the nod to come up.

Why we (Scottish Football) are not taking this opportunity to restructure is beyond me!

16 Top team league. Play each other home and away. 2 up, 2 down with 3rd bottom and 3rd top playing off for the final league spot in the top tier!


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## Crawfy (Jun 22, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Dunfermline were relegated, Dundee were 2nd in league 1, therefore they get the nod to come up.

Why we (Scottish Football) are not taking this opportunity to restructure is beyond me!

16 Top team league. Play each other home and away. 2 up, 2 down with 3rd bottom and 3rd top playing off for the final league spot in the top tier!
		
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Scottish football ? restructure ? embrace change and move with the times ?

What have you been smoking Craw ??

More chance of flip-flops and surf-shorts becoming R&A dress-code


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## smange (Jun 22, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Dunfermline were relegated, Dundee were 2nd in league 1, therefore they get the nod to come up.

Why we (Scottish Football) are not taking this opportunity to restructure is beyond me!

16 Top team league. Play each other home and away. 2 up, 2 down with 3rd bottom and 3rd top playing off for the final league spot in the top tier!
		
Click to expand...

Got to disagree that Dundee are entitled to the place Craw. Dunfermline and the rest of the league were cheated by Rangers last season and I cant see why we shouldnt remain in the league.

Personally I dont want us to be in the SPL as im looking forward to a season of derbies and re-newing rivalries with other teams in the first division which holds far more appeal than the borefest of the SPL but I just cant understand why Dundee have any right to the place.


I agree that this is a perfect chance for restructuring the game but it will never happen. Not while people like Neil Doncaster are running the game.


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## thecraw (Jun 22, 2012)

smange said:



			Got to disagree that Dundee are entitled to the place Craw. Dunfermline and the rest of the league were cheated by Rangers last season and I cant see why we shouldnt remain in the league.

Personally I dont want us to be in the SPL as im looking forward to a season of derbies and re-newing rivalries with other teams in the first division which holds far more appeal than the borefest of the SPL but I just cant understand why Dundee have any right to the place.


I agree that this is a perfect chance for restructuring the game but it will never happen. Not while people like Neil Doncaster are running the game.
		
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And Dundee also got cheated when they were in the SPHELL. The Pars got relegated, they deserve to go down in my opinion. Yes maybe I would grant you the "play off" option would be good as well but when do you propose that we play this!


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## smange (Jun 22, 2012)

thecraw said:



			And Dundee also got cheated when they were in the SPHELL. The Pars got relegated, they deserve to go down in my opinion. Yes maybe I would grant you the "play off" option would be good as well but when do you propose that we play this!
		
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Yes we deserved to go down, god knows us Pars fans know that more than anyone. We were truly awful last season and the league table doesnt lie at the end of the season.

But I cant see why Dundee have a claim. As much as we deserved to get relegated they werent good enough to get into the promotion place and in fact finished 24 ponts behind Ross County. Do you really feel that a team finishing 24 points behind the promotion place should be promoted


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 22, 2012)

StuartD said:



			FairwayDodger, me and you need to arrange a game sometime and get away from all this :lol:
		
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Sounds like a plan Stuart. 

Just back from a few days away and totally out of touch with the latest in the Rangers saga.... and can't decipher fact from fiction in this thread....

Good to see someone else trying to fight the Rangers corner though.


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## HughJars (Jun 22, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Sounds like a plan Stuart. 

Just back from a few days away and totally out of touch with the latest in the Rangers saga.... and can't decipher fact from fiction in this thread....

Good to see someone else trying to fight the Rangers corner though.
		
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For god's sake. this is exactly the problem, their 'corner' doesn't need fighting, it needs apologising for their misdeeds from, not trying to aportion blame to everyone and everyone else, and threatening laughable sanctions from a postion of ultimate weakness.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 22, 2012)

HughJars said:



			For god's sake. this is exactly the problem, their 'corner' doesn't need fighting, it needs apologising for their misdeeds from, not trying to aportion blame to everyone and everyone else, and threatening laughable sanctions from a postion of ultimate weakness.
		
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In a sense of in the forum! Sheeesh!


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## SS2 (Jun 22, 2012)

If Rangers disappear to div 1 or 3 or wherever I'd vote for Dunfermline to take their place. I say this only because they were so pish last season that the mighty St Mirren were able to stop worrying about relegation and continue to play like Barcelona.

Gotta go, nurse says it's time for my medication.


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## chris661 (Jun 22, 2012)

SS2 said:



			If Rangers disappear to div 1 or 3 or wherever I'd vote for Dunfermline to take their place. I say this only because they were so pish last season that the mighty St Mirren were able to stop worrying about relegation and continue to play like *Manuel from Barcelona.*

Gotta go, nurse says it's time for my medication.
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 22, 2012)

That's funny
But St Midden did play some good stuff last season, much improved team.


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## smange (Jun 22, 2012)

SS2 said:



			If Rangers disappear to div 1 or 3 or wherever I'd vote for Dunfermline to take their place. I say this only because they were so pish last season that the mighty St Mirren were able to stop worrying about relegation and continue to play like Barcelona.

Gotta go, nurse says it's time for my medication.
		
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Yep we were bad but now we have got shot of McIntyre and his old pals act signing policy im hoping we can move forward again.

"Mighty St Mirren" never thought I would read those words or have you spelled mighty wrong? Shouldnt it start with Sh?


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## thecraw (Jun 22, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That's funny
But St Midden did play some good stuff last season, much improved team.
		
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St Mirren even played decent football under McPherson as well.


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## StuartD (Jun 22, 2012)

HughJars said:



			For god's sake. this is exactly the problem, their 'corner' doesn't need fighting.
		
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Sorry but it does. I have tried to put a case across where I think rfc are guilty. But we certainly need to defend ourselves against some of the factually incorrect garbage on here

Anyway I'll get back to sticking to facts again. Dunfermline MUST to go down. End of. The Spl rules clearly say a club will always be relegated. If need be the second placed sfl team would come up if the sfl champs ground could not meet the criteria. Thought to be better than the previous farce of maybe Down maybe not we had a good few years ago. This was voted in on an 8-4 style majority vote. Note this also puts to bed the theory on here that it is always an 11-1 vote for the Spl and a8-4 vote was invented to just to help vote in the newco


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## 2004Champ (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheating Huns 1872 should be stripped of every trophy they have won since 1986 and New Huns 2012 should not be allowed to play in any league in Scotland ever! Not even in the Junior league.

Notice how they have all shut up about how Marseille cheated them in 1992 since being exposed as the biggest cheats in world football?


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## thecraw (Jun 22, 2012)

2004Champ said:



			Cheating Huns 1872 should be stripped of every trophy they have won since 1986 and New Huns 2012 should not be allowed to play in any league in Scotland ever! Not even in the Junior league.

Notice how they have all shut up about how Marseille cheated them in 1992 since being exposed as the biggest cheats in world football?
		
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I did wonder when you and your bigoted views would surface on this thread!


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## Iaing (Jun 22, 2012)

6 weeks tomorrow till the season starts.
Does anyone else feel that this isn't enough time to get this mess sorted out.
Surely if TCFKAR go to the third division, the present third division clubs will need time to get their infrastructure in place.
I travelled with Killie when we were in the second division and you'd get to Brechin or east Stirling and there would be only one gate open. So most of the 500 or so travelling supporters ummm...didn't pay.
I'd imagine it could be worse this time with TCFKAR probably taking a lot more fans.


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## Mungoscorner (Jun 23, 2012)

The record attendance at Pride Park in Derby (Derby County) was between Rangers and a select XI from Derby,in June 2006.
This was a testimonial game for ex Rangers player Ted McMinn (The Tinman).
Our fanbase is massive,stick us in any league and we'll make our way back to the top.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 23, 2012)

Mungo lets hope you do.


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## chris661 (Jun 23, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			The record attendance at Pride Park in Derby (Derby County) was between Rangers and a select XI from Derby,in June 2006.
This was a testimonial game for ex Rangers player Ted McMinn (The Tinman).
Our fanbase is massive,stick us in any league and we'll make our way back to the top.
		
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You are kidding right? What happened to the share issue that Minty put out? How much is in the fighting fund? Hows the season ticket sales going?


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## thecraw (Jun 23, 2012)

:rofl:


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## Val (Jun 23, 2012)

Can I just add a bit of fact and suggest people stop suggesting Rangers drop to Dv 3. Rangers do not exist and can't drop anywhere.

I believe newco Rangers will be in the top league after 2 seasons due to league reconstruction, it's is the best opportunity for revolutionary change in our game.


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## smange (Jun 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Sorry but it does. I have tried to put a case across where I think rfc are guilty. But we certainly need to defend ourselves against some of the factually incorrect garbage on here

Anyway I'll get back to sticking to facts again. Dunfermline MUST to go down. End of. The Spl rules clearly say a club will always be relegated. If need be the second placed sfl team would come up if the sfl champs ground could not meet the criteria. Thought to be better than the previous farce of maybe Down maybe not we had a good few years ago. This was voted in on an 8-4 style majority vote. Note this also puts to bed the theory on here that it is always an 11-1 vote for the Spl and a8-4 vote was invented to just to help vote in the newco
		
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So how come Aberdeen (1999 I think) avoided a play off with Falkirk when Falkirks ground was deemed unfit for SPL and how come Motherwell(2003) also avoided relegation due to Falkirks ground.

Or is this another case of implementing rules when it suits?


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## SS2 (Jun 23, 2012)

Two words that frequently appear in the thread are "Facts" and "Rules". 

Coincidentally, these are two things that seem to be missing from this whole sad process or are open to interpretation depending on the colours of your scarf.


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## Mungoscorner (Jun 23, 2012)

SS2 said:



			Two words that frequently appear in the thread are "Facts" and "Rules". 

Coincidentally, these are two things that seem to be missing from this whole sad process or are open to interpretation depending on the colours of your scarf.
		
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Spot on.


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## smange (Jun 23, 2012)

Excellent piece from a St Johnstone fan which pretty well sums up the feeling of fans of other clubs throughout the country

http://blueheavenfanzine.wordpress....ions-of-a-lapsed-st-johnstone-fanzine-editor/

if you cant be bothered reading whole thing this is the jist of it

"what it boils down to is this: Iâ€™d rather watch St Johnstone playing amateur Sunday league football on the North Inch, than pay to see them willingly participate in a fixed, corrupt Premier League. Because that is exactly what the SPL will become if it allows a brand new football club to leapfrog the lower divisions and start out in the top flight, based purely on the strength of an application form.
Is this really how the SPL wants football to work now? Should we ditch the concept of promotion and relegation completely, and just open up every place in the league to the highest bidder? Why even bother playing football at all? Why not just turn the whole league into one big, obscene auction?"


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## StuartD (Jun 23, 2012)

smange said:



			So how come Aberdeen (1999 I think) avoided a play off with Falkirk when Falkirks ground was deemed unfit for SPL and how come Motherwell(2003) also avoided relegation due to Falkirks ground.

Or is this another case of implementing rules when it suits?
		
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Sorry last post was not that clear. The relagation rule was changed a few years ago along with the Spl ground criteria. May not be that fair on Dunfermline now compared to what Motherwell and Aberdeen got away with


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## Dodger (Jun 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Sorry but it does. I have tried to put a case across where I think rfc are guilty. But we certainly need to defend ourselves against some of the factually incorrect garbage on here

Anyway I'll get back to sticking to facts again. Dunfermline MUST to go down. End of. *The Spl rules clearly say* a club will always be relegated. If need be the second placed sfl team would come up if the sfl champs ground could not meet the criteria. Thought to be better than the previous farce of maybe Down maybe not we had a good few years ago. This was voted in on an 8-4 style majority vote. Note this also puts to bed the theory on here that it is always an 11-1 vote for the Spl and a8-4 vote was invented to just to help vote in the newco
		
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Oh the irony.

God that took away my hangover for a bit, laughed my tits off when I saw that.


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## StuartD (Jun 23, 2012)

Chris

Would agree that the rff fund has been disappointing. With regards to the share issue it was only open to existing shareholders. Many fans wanted to invest but couldn't. Our ex chairman would have had to make the plc public and float the plc on the stock exchange (as celtic did) to open the share issue to anybody. As most people just want a small holding for symbolic reasons, the share issue always going to be a disaster as those asked to invest already had their symbolic shareholding


One question I would like to ask. Many on here say RFC is dead and a new club is trying to take their position in the Spl. How then can the Spl apply sanctions on a completely new club and hold hem responsible for the misdemeanours of a dead club wih regards to the Ebt's


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## chris661 (Jun 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Chris

Would agree that the rff fund has been disappointing. With regards to the share issue it was only open to existing shareholders. Many fans wanted to invest but couldn't. Our ex chairman would have had to make the plc public and float the plc on the stock exchange (as celtic did) to open the share issue to anybody. As most people just want a small holding for symbolic reasons, the share issue always going to be a disaster as those asked to invest already had their symbolic shareholding


One question I would like to ask. Many on here say RFC is dead and a new club is trying to take their position in the Spl. How then can the Spl apply sanctions on a completely new club and hold hem responsible for the misdemeanours of a dead club wih regards to the Ebt's

Click to expand...

Thats what I dont get, folk say they were the best supported club with the most loyal fans. So for the 200,000 that wrecked Manchester they can only chuck in 3 quid each? That is fairly pathetic IMO.

As for the shares the existing shareholders were only able for roughly Â£1m? leaving Minty to BORROW another Â£50M. You couldnt make it up.

As for the punishments, sporting sanctions are the ONLY viable option left and frankly I would not let the new company use rangers or any associated badges etc. If you go bust thats it I realise this is a fairly simplistic view but there we go.


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## Dodger (Jun 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Chris

Would agree that the rff fund has been disappointing. With regards to the share issue it was only open to existing shareholders. Many fans wanted to invest but couldn't. Our ex chairman would have had to make the plc public and float the plc on the stock exchange (as celtic did) to open the share issue to anybody. As most people just want a small holding for symbolic reasons, the share issue always going to be a disaster as those asked to invest already had their symbolic shareholding


One question I would like to ask. Many on here say RFC is dead and a new club is trying to take their position in the Spl. How then can the Spl apply sanctions on a completely new club and hold hem responsible for the misdemeanours of a dead club wih regards to the Ebt's

Click to expand...

On the face of it I'd say they can't but the new club in that case would have to accept the fact that they are a new club and the status that confers on them. But, you Huns want to inherit the good stuff (SPL status, history) and leave the bad stuff behind(sanctions). For me if they want to leave the bad stuff behind then they have to leave the good stuff behind too and if they leave the good stuff then they have can leave the bad stuff.

Either way if you ever get around to kicking a football again I hope you are hammered severely everyone knows that it's the same "club" (not company). They'll play in blue, play at Ibrox and the fans will sing sectarian songs. They (football authorities) *must* punish the entity to prevent other clubs doing exactly the same thing.


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## Val (Jun 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Chris

Would agree that the rff fund has been disappointing. With regards to the share issue it was only open to existing shareholders. Many fans wanted to invest but couldn't. Our ex chairman would have had to make the plc public and float the plc on the stock exchange (as celtic did) to open the share issue to anybody. As most people just want a small holding for symbolic reasons, the share issue always going to be a disaster as those asked to invest already had their symbolic shareholding


One question I would like to ask. Many on here say RFC is dead and a new club is trying to take their position in the Spl. How then can the Spl apply sanctions on a completely new club and hold hem responsible for the misdemeanours of a dead club wih regards to the Ebt's

Click to expand...

Maybe because newco want in on the party in place of Rangers FC (in liquidation)

You can't have it all.

Interestingly yesterday isaw a guy wearing the home jersey of the liquidated rangers for season 2012/13, what happens to money there?


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## StuartD (Jun 23, 2012)

Dodger said:



On the face of it I'd say they can't but the new club in that case would have to accept the fact that they are a new club and the status that confers on them. But, you Huns want to inherit the good stuff (SPL status, history) and leave the bad stuff behind(sanctions). For me if they want to leave the bad stuff behind then they have to leave the good stuff behind too and if they leave the good stuff then they have can leave the good stuff

Click to expand...


Good post.  Not sure I agree with the plc liquidated and the club is still alive theories going about  But you are right if we keep the good stuff then we must take the ebt punishments

As for the sale of merchandise rfc had a fixed yearly contract with jjb. That will be torn up now as a result, if the strip was bought there then jjb will be lining their pockets

If the top was bought in the Rangers store I suspect the money will still be going into the dead oldco right now along with our season ticket money


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## chris661 (Jun 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			If the top was bought in the Rangers store I suspect the money will still be going into the dead oldco right now along with our season ticket money
		
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Which must be REALLY worrying for fans. I know if it was me I would be really concerned that I wouldn't have a club to support. I seen something on twitter that "senior non playing staff have a contingency in place for 1 year without football"  *gulp* If that happens will a club reform?


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## Dodger (Jun 23, 2012)

Right,I'll try and stop laughing and I'll be serious for a second...

I know that IF they get in somewhere how the feck is Green (if he is in charge) going to pay for the running costs?

I know that the wage bill will be hugely lower than previous as all the bigger names will have jumped ship but surely there are still going to be running costs of say Â£600k plus a month and with season book income of peanuts compared to previous years also how is this going to be financed....also who the feck would give you lot credit facilities?

I just cannot see it happening...Third Lanark mark 2 with any luck.:whoo:


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## StuartD (Jun 24, 2012)

Jeez what the hell happened here

Some good points were being made from both sides regard to oldco/newco and where money is currently going etc when I went to bed last night and then I wake up to this


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## thecraw (Jun 24, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Jeez what the hell happened here

Some good points were being made from both sides regard to oldco/newco and where money is currently going etc when I went to bed last night and then I wake up to this
		
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Its called a large percentage of idiot fans on both sides!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 24, 2012)

Guys 
This is my thread.
Over 10,000 views and 420 posts before the bile started to rise.
That says a lot for the new era of Scottish football.

We do not want to know about what happened in the past, 4.75 million Scots  hated that and it was a large stain on the integrity of a great sporting nation.


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## Farneyman (Jun 24, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			Politics and religion have no place on a fitba park,.
		
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They have no place on a forum either if you ask me yet you bring up poppies... This thread is about rangers and their wrongdoings and should stick to that.


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## StuartD (Jun 24, 2012)

One last point in regards to last nights posts. I said I would only deal with facts so a previous post should have read

"No bloo stained poppies on our hoops"

And in the interest of fairness

Walter Smith is a legned


#oldfirmedukashun 
:clap:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 24, 2012)

I think after the last nights inappropriate posts we should now let this thread die.
Poison wins once again.


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## Farneyman (Jun 24, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think after the last nights inappropriate posts we should now let this thread die.
Poison wins once again.
		
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Why let a few folk spoil a decent, on the whole, interesting thread?

Just delete the individual posts...


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 24, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Guys 
This is my thread.
Over 10,000 views and 420 posts before the bile started to rise.
That says a lot for the new era of Scottish football.

We do not want to know about what happened in the past, 4.75 million Scots  hated that and it was a large stain on the integrity of a great sporting nation.
		
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Have to point out that the bile has risen a few times on this thread, not just last night. A few of us attempted to have a serious discussion but others just want to put the boot in and/or rake up old transgressions (both "sides"). And some are switching  in and out of both mindsets! 

Anyway, fair enough either way but I think I'm finished debating. Will see what happens. I hope my team "comes back" as best it can and hopefully within a restructured league and with a line firmly scored under past offences and a zero tolerance approach to any repeat in future.


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## Chrimbo (Jun 24, 2012)

Looks like the exodus has started 

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18560798


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## bluewolf (Jun 24, 2012)

You know what? I complained about this thread last night, after a few drinks. Apparently my complaint was ignored. So intolerance, bigotry, hatred and bile are OK!  But god help you if you don't put a picture in a "for sale" thread. Football doesn't need any help on its journey into the gutter, but the old firm seem intent on helping anyway.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2012)

bluewolf said:



			You know what? I complained about this thread last night, after a few drinks. Apparently my complaint was ignored. So intolerance, bigotry, hatred and bile are OK!  But god help you if you don't put a picture in a "for sale" thread. Football doesn't need any help on its journey into the gutter, but the old firm seem intent on helping anyway.
		
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Well said.


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## GB72 (Jun 24, 2012)

bluewolf said:



			You know what? I complained about this thread last night, after a few drinks. Apparently my complaint was ignored. So intolerance, bigotry, hatred and bile are OK!  But god help you if you don't put a picture in a "for sale" thread. Football doesn't need any help on its journey into the gutter, but the old firm seem intent on helping anyway.
		
Click to expand...

From a point of view of clearing this thread up, apologies for not getting it sorted sooner. My net connection has been on and off for days now and, believe it or not, I sometimes have other things to do on a Saturday night and Sunday morning. I have cleared out the posts from last night and hope that I have got them all. You have to understand though that I really have very little knowledge about Scottish football or the Old Firm and there are a number of terms used that I really do not know if they are insulting, sectarian, offensive or anything else. 

I have, however, found alot of this thread interesting and informative and it is good to hear what people have to say on what is one of the biggest stories in football for years and could effect anyone. After all, you cannot tell me that after this the HMRC will not be hunting down other clubs who have similar debts. 

If we can keep it civil then i can see no reason why the thread should not run. If it drops to a slanging match then at the very least I am going to lock it.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 24, 2012)

Thank you.


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## SS2 (Jun 24, 2012)

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]_"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen."_

Don't close or lock  the thread. The easily-offended can always choose not to read it.
[/FONT]


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## bluewolf (Jun 24, 2012)

SS2 said:



			[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]_"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen."_



Don't close or lock  the thread. The easily-offended can always choose not to read it.
[/FONT]
		
Click to expand...

And what "ideas" are those?  Ideas implies originality of thought, which is something sadly missing in certain areas of this thread. Why is it that the first people to cry "freedom of speech" are those who wish to take no responsibility for their views?


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## SS2 (Jun 24, 2012)

bluewolf said:



			And what "ideas" are those?  Ideas implies originality of thought, which is something sadly missing in certain areas of this thread. Why is it that the first people to cry "freedom of speech" are those who wish to take no responsibility for their views?
		
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I take complete responsibility for every view I have ever expressed on this forum.


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## thecraw (Jun 24, 2012)

SS2 said:



			I take complete responsibility for every view I have ever expressed on this forum.
		
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However your not really blinded by hate and nonsense like a few of the "Huns" and "Tims" on here.

My view is also sack the thread some people can't control their thought process when it comes to football!


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## SS2 (Jun 24, 2012)

I am a St Mirren fan and therefore don't really follow football.

The Tims and Huns can say what they like, it's all just quality Glaswegian banter. No need to censor anything.


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## thecraw (Jun 24, 2012)

SS2 said:



			I am a St Mirren fan and therefore don't really follow football.

The Tims and Huns can say what they like, it's all just quality Glaswegian banter. No need to censor anything.
		
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Its not banter when it descends into sectarian based name calling filth!


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## bluewolf (Jun 24, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Its not banter when it descends into sectarian based name calling filth!
		
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My thoughts exactly. I'm  Going to assume, from reading this thread, that we can all use random nicknames to address all sorts if groups. From skin colour, to sex to age group. It's all just banter isn't it?


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## Val (Jun 24, 2012)

Oh dear, what did I miss?


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## Yer Maw (Jun 24, 2012)

getting folk back on track it appears come Thursday's 1st training session after the break will see who is willing to turn up and play for the newco regardless of what league they play in.  Here is a good Q&A report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18569993


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## DelB (Jun 25, 2012)

Six SPL teams now confirmed as 'No' votes on the subject of Rangers readmission to to the top flight. Next weeks vote looks like it will just be a formality.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 25, 2012)

Police open a criminal case to investigate the takeover by Whyte.

With the six votes there will be no SPL next year.
 The lower leagues for newco now.
They way things are going they may be greatful to get in.


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## StuartD (Jun 25, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			They way things are going they may be greatful to get in.
		
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 Even if SFL want us we may not be ready


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## thecraw (Jun 25, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Even if SFL want us we may not be ready
		
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Great stuff, would love to see an end of one half of the bigot brothers.


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## thecraw (Jun 25, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgp4AOCYsGg


Nearly spat my tea over the laptop watching this.


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## bigslice (Jun 25, 2012)

thecraw said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgp4AOCYsGg


Nearly spat my tea over the laptop watching this.
		
Click to expand...

didnt find it funny at all


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## StuartD (Jun 25, 2012)

It appears Dunfermline may be back after all (humble pie time for me). On legal advice they think rules mean relegation will still happen if a team goes bust mid season. As rfc are to be kicked out during close season they think they should be allowed to stay. Legal challenge a possibility

What a mess with just 6 weeks till new season


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## smange (Jun 26, 2012)

StuartD said:



			It appears Dunfermline may be back after all (humble pie time for me). On legal advice they think rules mean relegation will still happen if a team goes bust mid season. As rfc are to be kicked out during close season they think they should be allowed to stay. Legal challenge a possibility

What a mess with just 6 weeks till new season
		
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Been reading about it a bit this morning Stuart and it does indeed look like we will probably get to stay up. 

Not too fussed either way to be honest, as Ive said was kind of looking forward to the first division again what with games against Falkirk, Raith Rovers and Cowden to look forward to but obviously financially the SPL is the better option.

Most of all I really hope that the powers that be in Scottish football have taken note of all the concerns from clubs and fans alike and do something to change the current set up and take Scottish football forward into a brighter future. Alas for your club though I feel that also includes you starting again at the bottom level.


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## Paul_Stewart (Jun 26, 2012)

Mate of mine at St.Mirren has just been sent his official voting form for whether to allow Rangers into the SPL.    The bigger question at Love Street is how close to 100% the NO vote will be.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 26, 2012)

Looks like the 1st Division clubs are starting to line up thier no votes as well.
Absurdly arrogant piece in one of the Scottish Sundays by ex Rangers chief exec Gordon Smith saying that newco should volunteer to play in the 1st Division.

They still don't get it do they.


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## smange (Jun 26, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Looks like the 1st Division clubs are starting to line up thier no votes as well.
Absurdly arrogant piece in one of the Scottish Sundays by ex Rangers chief exec Gordon Smith saying that newco should volunteer to play in the 1st Division.

They still don't get it do they.
		
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Nope they really dont get it at all.

When there becomes a place available in the Scottish leagues after the seemingly nailed on "NO" vote for the SPL they should have to apply for it along with any other clubs who fancy it, I would imagine Spartans, Edinburgh City and a few others who have applied previously. Then and only then should their application be considered under the same rules and guidelines that all previous applications have been subject to.

I cant see the first division clubs voting to allow them in there as it will most likely end their own promotion hopes if The Rangers were in their league. They will however win a vote to be allowed entry into the 3rd as, and quite rightly so for their own clubs finances, the chairmen in the 2nd and 3rd will see the financial benefits of The Rangers spending a season in each division. Im assuming they will win promotion in the first 2 seasons.

But I think the most likely scenario is that they will get into the 3rd division for a season then there will be a major restructuring of Scottish football giving us a 3 leagues of 16 set up which will automatically promote them to the new first division where they will win promotion in first year. That gets them back in the SPL in 2 years and they will have been seen to have received full and proper punishment by most people.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 26, 2012)

smange said:



			. Im assuming they will win promotion in the first 2 seasons.

.
		
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Might not be as simple as that Stephen , they will hardly be able to keep their SPL squad together in the 3rd division , they would be lucky to keep any of them .. 

Is there a possability that all their players not just their 1st team squad might not transfer to newco & become free agents therefore they could have no playing staff ,?


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## smange (Jun 26, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Might not be as simple as that Stephen , they will hardly be able to keep their SPL squad together in the 3rd division , they would be lucky to keep any of them .. 

Is there a possability that all their players not just their 1st team squad might not transfer to newco & become free agents therefore they could have no playing staff ,?
		
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Regardless of what happens to their current squad they will still be able to attract a higher standard of player than the current 3rd division sides. These teams are all part time and surviving on crowds of a few hundred if they are lucky. 

The Rangers will be full time and getting (if their current fans are to be believed and are still going to follow them) big crowds therefore giving them the money to spend on a squad to get them back to the SPL as quick as possible. 

In fact they will probably start in the 3rd division with a team capable of winning the 1st division. With all due respects to the 2nd and 3rd division clubs and players the hardest challenge they will probably face is their own over confidence and arrogance


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## thecraw (Jun 26, 2012)

smange said:



			Regardless of what happens to their current squad they will still be able to attract a higher standard of player than the current 3rd division sides. These teams are all part time and surviving on crowds of a few hundred if they are lucky. 

The Rangers will be full time and getting (if their current fans are to be believed and are still going to follow them) big crowds therefore giving them the money to spend on a squad to get them back to the SPL as quick as possible. 

In fact they will probably start in the 3rd division with a team capable of winning the 1st division. With all due respects to the 2nd and 3rd division clubs and players the hardest challenge they will probably face is their own over confidence and arrogance
		
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That may be the case, sorry it is the case however they still need to be allowed to play in the lower leagues. I guess the only plus point from all this is the chance of the "diddy" teams like Brechin and Albion Rovers etc will get a bumper windfall for a season by getting the rioters visiting them.


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## chris661 (Jun 26, 2012)

smange said:



			Regardless of what happens to their current squad they will still be able to attract a higher standard of player than the current 3rd division sides. These teams are all part time and surviving on crowds of a few hundred if they are lucky. 

The Rangers will be full time and getting (if their current fans are to be believed and are still going to follow them) big crowds therefore giving them the money to spend on a squad to get them back to the SPL as quick as possible. 

In fact they will probably start in the 3rd division with a team capable of winning the 1st division. With all due respects to the 2nd and 3rd division clubs and players the hardest challenge they will probably face is their own over confidence and arrogance
		
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I really don't think there will be a sevco at any level at all next year. Heard a rumor Green hasn't got anything like the necessary funding in place and is seriously looking at an asset sale of the facilities to clear off!


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## Val (Jun 26, 2012)

thecraw said:



			That may be the case, sorry it is the case however they still need to be allowed to play in the lower leagues. I guess the only plus point from all this is the chance of the "diddy" teams like Brechin and Albion Rovers etc will get a bumper windfall for a season by getting the rioters visiting them.
		
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Which is why it will be a good thing for Scottish football, lower league teams will get a bump in attendances as The Rangers come to town, clubs like Killie and Ayr may get a wee bump in attendance as Gers fans from there may not fancy going to Montrose etc.

Everyone gets a turn


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## Val (Jun 26, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I really don't think there will be a sevco at any level at all next year. Heard a rumor Green hasn't got anything like the necessary funding in place and is seriously looking at an asset sale of the facilities to clear off!
		
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I think he was banking on a player sale which may not happen as the line up to do walking away.


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## smange (Jun 26, 2012)

thecraw said:



			That may be the case, sorry it is the case however they still need to be allowed to play in the lower leagues. I guess the only plus point from all this is the chance of the "diddy" teams like Brechin and Albion Rovers etc will get a bumper windfall for a season by getting the rioters visiting them.
		
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Exactly Craw and thats why the 2nd and 3rd division chairmen will vote to let them in the leagues, and you cant blame them for looking after themselves.

My main gripe is that there are other teams who have applied for previous available slots in the leagues and they arent even being talked about, it just seems to be a given that The Rangers should start in the 3rd and to hell with these other clubs.

Completely unfair to these clubs who have done everything that has been asked of them and kept their finances in order to enable them to apply for league positions if and when they become available.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 26, 2012)

smange said:



			Exactly Craw and thats why the 2nd and 3rd division chairmen will vote to let them in the leagues, and you cant blame them for looking after themselves.

My main gripe is that there are other teams who have applied for previous available slots in the leagues and they arent even being talked about, it just seems to be a given that The Rangers should start in the 3rd and to hell with these other clubs.

Completely unfair to these clubs who have done everything that has been asked of them and kept their finances in order to enable them to apply for league positions if and when they become available.
		
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OK, I'm going to have to say it. 

If all the teams that have applied before apply along with a new entity playing at Ibrox and likely to attract (in div 3 mind) the second biggest support in the entire country is there any way these other bids can compete? No - it's a complete no brainer. 

The best thing for Scottish football is to allow "New Rangers" into div 3. That's not arrogance or anything else, trust me, I'm well battered by this whole experience; it's just realistic.


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## smange (Jun 26, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			OK, I'm going to have to say it. 

If all the teams that have applied before apply along with a new entity playing at Ibrox and likely to attract (in div 3 mind) the second biggest support in the entire country is there any way these other bids can compete? No - it's a complete no brainer. 

The best thing for Scottish football is to allow "New Rangers" into div 3. That's not arrogance or anything else, trust me, I'm well battered by this whole experience; it's just realistic.
		
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Im not saying its not the best for Scottish football in the long run financially.

We are back to these words "sporting integrity"

All im saying is that these "non-league" clubs seem to be forgotten here and a club that has risen from the death of a club who has been found guilty of all sorts is being fast tracked into the league set up purely because of fan base.

Is that fair and sporting?


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## granters (Jun 26, 2012)

a little light relief?

http://youtu.be/6KDyEDKwZik

some crackin one lines from Herr Hitler


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 26, 2012)

smange said:



			Im not saying its not the best for Scottish football in the long run financially.

We are back to these words "sporting integrity"

All im saying is that these "non-league" clubs seem to be forgotten here and a club that has risen from the death of a club who has been found guilty of all sorts is being fast tracked into the league set up purely because of fan base.

Is that fair and sporting?
		
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It's a new entity with infrastructure and support at such a high level that bids such as we've seen in recent years would pale into insignificance by comparison. You could have an open process and invite other bids but the likes of Spartans would be wasting their time and money.

Come on - it's div 3 we're talking here - will you not be happy unless they go out of existence completely?


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## bladeplayer (Jun 26, 2012)

smange said:



			Is that fair and sporting?
		
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Definatly not , because the people involved , have shown they want to be in the SPL or if not then  the  1st division & are only,  or may only accept this because there is no other option , where as the other clubs are striving & building twords geting into the league .. & have quiet possibly run their club within the rules & regulations set down in order to do so  .

Not fair , not sporting , then again money (if there is any) talks


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## thecraw (Jun 26, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's a new entity with infrastructure and support at such a high level that bids such as we've seen in recent years would pale into insignificance by comparison. You could have an open process and invite other bids but the likes of Spartans would be wasting their time and money.

Come on - it's div 3 we're talking here - *will you not be happy unless they go out of existence completely?*

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I fear I may sound like Dodger here but its entirely what they deserve. Walk away from a mountain of debt, deceit and lies. Keep all your assets and start again debt free while Aberdeen, Dundee United Kilmarnock etc are servicing debt and trying their hardest to stay within their means and compete.

I actually do want Rangers to disappear for good!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 26, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I fear I may sound like Dodger here but its entirely what they deserve. Walk away from a mountain of debt, deceit and lies. Keep all your assets and start again debt free while Aberdeen, Dundee United Kilmarnock etc are servicing debt and trying their hardest to stay within their means and compete.

I actually do want Rangers to disappear for good!
		
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How about Motherwell?
Dundee?
Livingston?
Airdrie?

If/when the music stops for Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Hearts will you want them to die?


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## thecraw (Jun 26, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			How about Motherwell?
Dundee?
Livingston?
Airdrie?

If/when the music stops for Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Hearts will you want them to die?
		
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They have (as far as I'm aware) not cheated the tax man and the tax paying Joe Public who will ultimately pick up and pay Rangers unpaid taxes. If any of them are are villainous as Rangers have been conducting their cheating over the years then yes they also deserve to go out of existence.

Rather a pedantic reply from you.


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## smange (Jun 26, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			How about Motherwell?
Dundee?
Livingston?
Airdrie?

If/when the music stops for Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Hearts will you want them to die?
		
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I think your missing the point a bit and also taking it a bit personal as a Rangers supporter.

Take all that is bad about Rangers before all this nonsense (sectarianism and hate filled bigotry) add into that all the financial shenanigans of late which has been proved to be tantamount to years and years of blatent cheating as well as the downright arrogance of a large part of the Rangers support and I think you can get why some people are quite happy to see Rangers disappear completely.

Trust me there are many many supporters of other clubs in Scotland hoping that something similar comes out about your ugly sisters across the city and we can get rid of them as well.

These other clubs that you mention have (as far as we know to date) not been guilty of cheating in a way Rangers have, so no people do not want to see them disappear.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 26, 2012)

thecraw said:



			They have (as far as I'm aware) not cheated the tax man and the tax paying Joe Public who will ultimately pick up and pay Rangers unpaid taxes. If any of them are are villainous as Rangers have been conducting their cheating over the years then yes they also deserve to go out of existence.

Rather a pedantic reply from you.
		
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Well they "cheated" by going into administration and not paying their debts. Whether they owed the taxman or not I'm not sure. Without doing any research I'd guess they did actually. Not as much, sure.

And BTW what Airdrie did was far worse than anything Rangers have done........ in my opinion!

It seems to me that to continue to want to drive Rangers out of existence is only bitterness at this stage. All the "wrongdoers" have left and hopefully the authorities will catch up with them in due course. The club looks like heading for div 3 - which is a lot of punishment actually.

If they disappear altogether all that happens is that many thousands of innocent supporters lose their team and the majority will probably drift away from Scottish football entirely. I don't believe that's in anybody's interest.


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## thecraw (Jun 26, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Well they "cheated" by going into administration and not paying their debts. Whether they owed the taxman or not I'm not sure. Without doing any research I'd guess they did actually. Not as much, sure.

And BTW what Airdrie did was far worse than anything Rangers have done........ in my opinion!

It seems to me that to continue to want to drive Rangers out of existence is only bitterness at this stage. All the "wrongdoers" have left and hopefully the authorities will catch up with them in due course. The club looks like heading for div 3 - which is a lot of punishment actually.

If they disappear altogether all that happens is that many thousands of innocent supporters lose their team and the majority will probably drift away from Scottish football entirely. I don't believe that's in anybody's interest.
		
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And keep all their assets. Your having a giraffe! 

Absolute joke. There is a lot more of this still to come out and I think there is a lot more on the Craig Whyte saga!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 26, 2012)

thecraw said:



			And keep all their assets. Your having a giraffe! 

Absolute joke. There is a lot more of this still to come out and I think there is a lot more on the Craig Whyte saga!
		
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I'm serious actually. Who are you actually punishing now? It's reaching the vindictive stage. I don't think Scottish football can afford to lose the thousands of customers who support Rangers and see no reason they shouldn't be allowed to restart in div 3.

As for Craig Whyte - I hope they've got a cold jail cell waiting for that man.


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## thecraw (Jun 26, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'm serious actually. Who are you actually punishing now? It's reaching the vindictive stage. I don't think Scottish football can afford to lose the thousands of customers who support Rangers and see no reason they shouldn't be allowed to restart in div 3.

As for Craig Whyte - I hope they've got a cold jail cell waiting for that man.
		
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This will be the same innocent fans who revelled in the success, gloated and taunted opposition fans who watched their own team suffer due to financial limitations and constraints. 

Scottish football will comfortably survive without Rangers. Its Celtic who will suffer most.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 26, 2012)

thecraw said:



			This will be the same innocent fans who revelled in the success, gloated and taunted opposition fans who watched their own team suffer due to financial limitations and constraints. 

Scottish football will comfortably survive without Rangers.
		
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In the traditional style of all football fans, yes. Scottish football will survive but it will be diminished.



thecraw said:



			Its Celtic who will suffer most.
		
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Not all bad then.


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## Mungoscorner (Jun 26, 2012)

In all fairness,this thread would contain more or less the same content if it were Celtic in this position.
It would also be the same if it were Man Utd,Chelsea for example.A large percentage of people (excluding there own supporters) would be happy to see the big teams fall,and Rangers are/were one of the big teams.
Scottish football is on its arse,and has been for years,just look at where our national team are ranked.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 26, 2012)

Many of Old Rangers 'fans' just tagged along with the sectarian issues and success of the club. As I said earlier they will be 'awa like sna off a dyke' now. The glory hunters have no glory.
I hope the club survives and thier not quite so ugly sister's fans  have the dignity to understand that Scottish football reject much of what they both stood for.
The SFA really do need to grasp the nettle and get on with reorganising Scottish football without the ugliest sister of them all, Sky's Murdoch clan.
We welcome lower crowds and lower expectations so that we can at last have a level football playing field.


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## sweatysock41 (Jun 26, 2012)

I've read the main jist of this thread and the likely outcome for Rangers. 

I will just give a comparison as to what happened to our local 'non-league, semi-professional team'.  Nuneaton Borough as was lived beyond their means, a local businessman was seen as the saviour - of course he wanted to look at the books etc and to cut a long story short there was no way he was going to take on the debts and the only option left was liquidation - familiar I think.

He then bought the remaining assets which I believe is what has happened/is happening at Rangers.  The club was told by the local FA that they could reform at a level 2 divisions below where they were and not allowed to use Borough in the new name (from being in Conference North to Southern League Midland division).  Consequently this was the outcome and the club that should have been relegated from Conference North was reprieved - now I don't see that as being much different to Rangers Newco being allowed into Division 3.

A lot of the players showed loyalty to the club and remained with them under revised contracts and now after 3 promotions in 4 years as Nuneaton Town they are in Conference Premier.  For the fans there was the pain of visiting some places that were not much more than council pitches with a barrier but having a club to support was the most important thing.  I have no allegiance at all in this but to say a club should disappear completely I find vindictive.


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## Val (Jun 26, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Well they "cheated" by going into administration and not paying their debts. Whether they owed the taxman or not I'm not sure. Without doing any research I'd guess they did actually. Not as much, sure.

And BTW what Airdrie did was far worse than anything Rangers have done........ in my opinion!

It seems to me that to continue to want to drive Rangers out of existence is only bitterness at this stage. All the "wrongdoers" have left and hopefully the authorities will catch up with them in due course. The club looks like heading for div 3 - which is a lot of punishment actually.

If they disappear altogether all that happens is that many thousands of innocent supporters lose their team and the majority will probably drift away from Scottish football entirely. I don't believe that's in anybody's interest.
		
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Who are this Airdrie you talk of, they disappeared 10 years after Murray called the administrators in on them.


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## Val (Jun 26, 2012)

thecraw said:



			This will be the same innocent fans who revelled in the success, gloated and taunted opposition fans who watched their own team suffer due to financial limitations and constraints. 

Scottish football will comfortably survive without Rangers. Its Celtic who will suffer most.
		
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Celtic will not suffer the most, Celtic can take a hit of a few million a season easily, St Mirren with a turnover of Â£3.5m is a different story not to mention clubs with debt.


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## chris661 (Jun 26, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Who are this Airdrie you talk of, they disappeared 10 years after Murray called the administrators in on them.
		
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Was that not for thirty grand?


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## Val (Jun 26, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Was that not for thirty grand?
		
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At most! Do you think the fans of the team previously known as Clydebank want The Rangers in the SFL after what they were put through?


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## smange (Jun 26, 2012)

sweatysock41 said:



			I've read the main jist of this thread and the likely outcome for Rangers. 

I will just give a comparison as to what happened to our local 'non-league, semi-professional team'. Nuneaton Borough as was lived beyond their means, a local businessman was seen as the saviour - of course he wanted to look at the books etc and to cut a long story short there was no way he was going to take on the debts and the only option left was liquidation - familiar I think.

He then bought the remaining assets which I believe is what has happened/is happening at Rangers. The club was told by the local FA that they could reform at a level 2 divisions below where they were and not allowed to use Borough in the new name (from being in Conference North to Southern League Midland division). Consequently this was the outcome and the club that should have been relegated from Conference North was reprieved - now I don't see that as being much different to Rangers Newco being allowed into Division 3.

A lot of the players showed loyalty to the club and remained with them under revised contracts and now after 3 promotions in 4 years as Nuneaton Town they are in Conference Premier. For the fans there was the pain of visiting some places that were not much more than council pitches with a barrier but having a club to support was the most important thing. *I have no allegiance at all in this but to say a club should disappear completely I find vindictive*.
		
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I know very little of the Nuneaton Borough situation but what I can bet is that their supporters didnt spend many years subjecting fans of other teams and in fact the general public to utterly disgusting sectarian singing, chanting and abuse. Not to mention their support of terrorist organisations who have murdered innocent people. All of which the club and its representatives have denied even when presented with video evidence.

Yes I know the other half of the Old Firm are just as bad and trust me most football fans in Scotland wouldnt be too sorry to see the back of them either.

Being happy to see the back of Rangers by most people isnt vindictive, its hoping to to see the start of the end for sectarianism and bigotry in our game.

By the way im a Dunfermline supporter and have been in the curious position, only available to non Old Firm fans, to have been called a fenian b.... one week to being called an orange b....... the following week.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 26, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Celtic will not suffer the most, Celtic can take a hit of a few million a season easily, St Mirren with a turnover of Â£3.5m is a different story not to mention clubs with debt.
		
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Celtic will recover any loss with savings on policeing costs.
I would imagine Glasgow City Council accountants are dancing in the streets.


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## Iaing (Jun 26, 2012)

I see that's more players walking away including ex club captain Steven Davis.
Also, the SFA have given the newco until Friday to provide the formal documentation to support their application for membership of the SFA ( without which the newco ain't playing at all ).
The documentation should provide the identities of the mysterious people behind Mr. Green along with disclosure of fit and proper status of said persons. I hope the SFA take plenty of time to check these people out this time.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2012)

At this moment Green is paying the wages of players, Naysmith is on Â£15k a WEEK, many don't earn that a YEAR. 
With the fans of newco not buying season tickets he has no obvious cash coming in.
I think we are starting to look at Admin Two.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At this moment Green is paying the wages of players, Naysmith is on Â£15k a WEEK, many don't earn that a YEAR. 
With the fans of newco not buying season tickets he has no obvious cash coming in.
I think we are starting to look at Admin Two.
		
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He hasn't payed any of them yet, today is a crucial day in The Rangers future. Players turning up today technically are deemed to transfer to newco and will expect payment, players not turning up will be viewed as not willing to transfer and not eligible for salary.

Interesting day today, it's like Eastenders :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			He hasn't payed any of them yet, today is a crucial day in The Rangers future. Players turning up today technically are deemed to transfer to newco and will expect payment, players not turning up will be viewed as not willing to transfer and not eligible for salary.

Interesting day today, it's like Eastenders :rofl:
		
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More like crossroads.


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## thecraw (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Celtic will not suffer the most, Celtic can take a hit of a few million a season easily, St Mirren with a turnover of Â£3.5m is a different story not to mention clubs with debt.
		
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Sorry mate but take of these green and white hooped glasses for a while.

Celtic need the Sky revenue from Old Farm games. Celtic need the rivalry of the Old Farm. Celtic need the blue half to keep their fans interested.

After a few seasons of having the league sewn up by Xmas the fans will start to get bored, the income will drop, the revenue will fall, the much inflated wage structure that Celtic enjoy over the rest of the SPHELL will have to reduce.

Celtic will feel the pinch worse than the rest. % wise they're income will be hit more. 

Aberdeen for instance have had a "huge" increase in season ticket demand in the last two days since voting NO to Newco. Probably means 3 new enquiries!

:lol:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2012)

I heard that the were going to re-instate the Glasgow Cup with the final being played over five legs!!


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## thecraw (Jun 27, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I heard that the were going to re-instate the Glasgow Cup with the final being played over five legs!!
		
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I think Partick Thistle fans would get bored after 2 games although it would give Celtic yet another chance to roll out and milk the Lisbon Lions crap!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Was that not for thirty grand?
		
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Valentino said:



			At most! Do you think the fans of the team previously known as Clydebank want The Rangers in the SFL after what they were put through?
		
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A quick google reveals Airdrie went bust with debts of over Â£3 million; some of it to Rangers, yes.

For those that don't know, when Airdrie United restarted as a newco they bought out Clydebank FC and transferred the registration into their name; reviving their club but killing Clydebank.

Are you seriously saying the villains in that tale were Rangers?

EDIT: Closer reading shows that SDM got an interdict to arrest some of Airdrie's cash for a debt owed to one of his *other*â€‹ companies. So even more tenuous to blame Rangers.


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## thecraw (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			A quick google reveals Airdrie went bust with debts of over Â£3 million; some of it to Rangers, yes.

For those that don't know, when Airdrie United restarted as a newco they bought out Clydebank FC and transferred the registration into their name; reviving their club but killing Clydebank.

*Are you seriously saying the villains in that tale were Rangers?*

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I heard that it was a Rangers fan that started the great fire of London!

I was also told that the iceberg that sank the Titanic had a Rangers crest on it!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I heard that it was a Rangers fan that started the great fire of London!

I was also told that the iceberg that sank the Titanic had a Rangers crest on it!



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Craw, it's really starting to feel like that.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2012)

It is a shame that the clubs who tried to reach the SPL's 10,000 all seater stadium targets seem to have been hamstrung with the debt.
Airdrie, Livingstone and Falkirk. They were all doing OK with thier old stadiums but now due to the financial problems the fan base has more or less drifted away.
What Elvis is doing at Falkirk is fabulous, that is what I would watch in the brave new world.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It is a shame that the clubs who tried to reach the SPL's 10,000 all seater stadium targets seem to have been hamstrung with the debt.
Airdrie, Livingstone and Falkirk. They were all doing OK with thier old stadiums but now due to the financial problems the fan base has more or less drifted away.
What Elvis is doing at Falkirk is fabulous, that is what I would watch in the brave new world.
		
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Yes, the wheels came off our game in lots of ways and we've gone into a cycle of decline - not helped by all the vested interests of the various bodies and clubs (especially, but not only, the OF) looking after no 1.

This is a great opportunity to take a step back and try and fix our game - work out how Scottish football should look and make the structural changes necessary. If the price for that is Rangers starting at the bottom level it might just be worth it.


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## chris661 (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			A quick google reveals Airdrie went bust with debts of over Â£3 million; some of it to Rangers, yes.

For those that don't know, when Airdrie United restarted as a newco they bought out Clydebank FC and transferred the registration into their name; reviving their club but killing Clydebank.

Are you seriously saying the villains in that tale were Rangers?

EDIT: Closer reading shows that SDM got an interdict to arrest some of Airdrie's cash for a debt owed to one of his *other*â€‹ companies. So even more tenuous to blame Rangers.
		
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Don't think anyone was blaming rangers but Murray. According to him it was just business that he got the windog up order issued.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Don't think anyone was blaming rangers but Murray. According to him it was just business that he got the windog up order issued.
		
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Sorry.... probably am getting a tad over-sensitive.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			A quick google reveals Airdrie went bust with debts of over Â£3 million; some of it to Rangers, yes.

For those that don't know, when Airdrie United restarted as a newco they bought out Clydebank FC and transferred the registration into their name; reviving their club but killing Clydebank.

Are you seriously saying the villains in that tale were Rangers?

EDIT: Closer reading shows that SDM got an interdict to arrest some of Airdrie's cash for a debt owed to one of his *other*â€‹ companies. So even more tenuous to blame Rangers.
		
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Not blaming Rangers by any means but just highlighting the Murray connection.

Lets stay with Airdrie United for a moment, are we saying what the owner of Clydebank did was wrong when he moved to Airdrie from Clydebank and in doing so doubled the fan base and rebranded his club all with the permission of the SFL?

If so what do you think of the club formerly know as Meadowbank Thistle now commonly know as Livingston who's owners moved them and rebranded them, is this really much different?


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Don't think anyone was blaming rangers but Murray. According to him it was just business that he got the windog up order issued.
		
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Karma is a bitch.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Lets stay with Airdrie United for a moment, are we saying what the owner of Clydebank did was wrong when he moved to Airdrie from Clydebank and in doing so doubled the fan base and rebranded his club all with the permission of the SFL?

If so what do you think of the club formerly know as Meadowbank Thistle now commonly know as Livingston who's owners moved them and rebranded them, is this really much different?
		
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Interesting question. My (probably dodgy) recollection was that the Airdrie guys bought Clydebank specifically to use it to resurrect Airdrie.

There's a school of thought that we've got too many clubs and could possibly improve our game with a blank sheet of paper and working out which parts of the country can support a team or teams. Kind of a franchise system.

So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Interesting question. My (probably dodgy) recollection was that the Airdrie guys bought Clydebank specifically to use it to resurrect Airdrie.

There's a school of thought that we've got too many clubs and could possibly improve our game with a blank sheet of paper and working out which parts of the country can support a team or teams. Kind of a franchise system.

So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.
		
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Airdrie went bust and formed a newco (Airdrie Utd) and applied for entry into the SFL (ring any bells?), the SFL refused entry and let a team who were currently playing in the English leagues in (Gretna).

The owners of Airdrie then purchased a dying club (and believe me it was dying big time, a couple of hundred fans max every week) and relocated and rebranded it, sad for a few hundred fans and great for a few thousand fans.

Meadowbank yes was slightly different to be fair and the commercial sense was to move from Edinburgh to a growing town but ambition and money did'nt go well with Livingston hence their admin troubles.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			The owners of Airdrie then purchased a dying club (and believe me it was dying big time, a couple of hundred fans max every week) and relocated and rebranded it, sad for a few hundred fans and great for a few thousand fans.
		
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Shades of grey isn't it? And when you argue it like that it's almost convincing.

I do remember the state Clydebank were in and in all likelihood they would have died anyway. It just seemed very wrong to me at the time.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Shades of grey isn't it? And when you argue it like that it's almost convincing.

I do remember the state Clydebank were in and in all likelihood they would have died anyway. It just seemed very wrong to me at the time.
		
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Would it seem wrong if "The Rangers" were denied entry into the SFL then purchased a homeless club (lets call them East Stirling just now) and relocate to Ibrox?

You would think I was in the know here 

(For the record im not in the know it's all just thoughts  :rofl: )


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Would it seem wrong if "The Rangers" were denied entry into the SFL then purchased a homeless club (lets call them East Stirling just now) and relocate to Ibrox?

You would think I was in the know here 

(For the record im not in the know it's all just thoughts  :rofl: )
		
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Yes definitely and they wouldn't have my support under those circumstances.

I also believe it would be wrong for the SFL to deny "The Rangers" access to the league.... unless there was a superior alternative bid, which I can't currently imagine happening.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2012)

To promote football in the Borders I think the SPL [whatever] should force newco to relocate to Galashields.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			To promote football in the Borders I think the SPL [whatever] should force newco to relocate to Galashields.
		
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Is it like in school where the teacher separates the troublemakers?

You, boy, Rangers - move to Galashields.

What are you laughing at, Celtic? Eh? Get yourself over to Stornoway, boy.


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## Hobbit (Jun 27, 2012)

The sad issue of the demise of a great club aside, this thread has given a fantastic insight into football, its wheeling and dealings and its fan base. A thank you to all the contributors.

The loss of Rangers will affect every club in the SPL because of the lost revenue from the fixtures. There may well be a further loss of revenue from TV rights as the various broadcasters perceive a diminished product. The taxman has, in effect, put all the clubs at a financial risk to a greater or lesser extent but that's the club's fault for structuring their business to a level of risk that isn't sustainable if/when the house of cards falls. 

Is it fair that Rangers has gone to the wall? If it was a dispute between two businesses I'd say its a shame but its not. Its non-payment of taxes. Taxes that pay for hospitals, Social Services etc. And at the end of the day its been the man in the street that's not avoided taxes and has been paying the bill for hospitals etc that Rangers should have been contributing to.

In that respect, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Rangers' plight, and I hope it serves as a reminder to all businesses, football or otherwise, that dodging your tax bill is unacceptable.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			In that respect, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Rangers' plight, and I hope it serves as a reminder to all businesses, football or otherwise, that dodging your tax bill is unacceptable.
		
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Vodafone anyone? Man, this thread could go on forever!  We've not even touched on Wallace Mercer trying to takeover Hibs yet. :ears:


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Vodafone anyone? *Man, this thread could go on forever*!  We've not even touched on Wallace Mercer trying to takeover Hibs yet. :ears:
		
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Wait till more skeletons emerge :lol:

John Fleck also does walking away, go have a look at The Rangers Football club on wiki and count their playing squad :rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Wait till more skeletons emerge :lol:

John Fleck also does walking away, go have a look at The Rangers Football club on wiki and count their playing squad :rofl:
		
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Do you think there's any way I could just avoid all football news for the rest of the summer and then check at the start of the season if Rangers are there anywhere?

It could be like the trick of searching for your golf ball in the area you'd quite like it to be rather than deep in the doodah where you suspect it ended up. 

SPL? nope. Div 1? nope. Div 2? nope. Div 3? .........


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Do you think there's any way I could just avoid all football news for the rest of the summer and then check at the start of the season if Rangers are there anywhere?

It could be like the trick of searching for your golf ball in the area you'd quite like it to be rather than deep in the doodah where you suspect it ended up. 

SPL? nope. Div 1? nope. Div 2? nope. Div 3? .........
		
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You could avoid if you stop posting here, read/watch the newspapers/news, listen to the radio etc etc etc.

Your stuck with it pal


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

"No one likes us, we don't care" (well untill now that is)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/range...nnows-could-come-back-to-haunt-club-1-2375352




*1964 bid to eject minnows could come back to haunt club*


                                                                                              By CRAIG P STEWART                                                                     
                      Published on *Tuesday 26 June 2012 00:00* 

                                                  IRONY will be at the forefront  of the minds of certain members of the Scottish Football League with  long memories when they vote on the future of â€˜The Rangersâ€™.
                                                                  Five clubs which will be involved in  determining which division the Ibrox club will play in next season â€“  Albion Rovers, Berwick Rangers, Brechin City, Stenhousemuir and  Stranraer â€“ may think back 48 years when the boot was on the other foot.
In 1964, this gang of five survived an attempt to oust them from senior football in a move led by Rangers.
The  Glasgow giants wanted to reduce the number of clubs in the then top two  divisions from 37 to 32 and proposed that the minnows should drop out.
Rangers  proposed that the five clubs with the smallest gate receipts should be  kicked out and were at the vanguard of moves to make it happen,  including sending out correspondence to the other member clubs and  deliberately excluding the targeted clubs.
Amid much legal  wrangling, the smaller clubs â€“ supported by Celtic and their chairman  Robert Kelly â€“ survived the move. SFL Operations Director David Thomson  recalled: â€œThe book that was launched to mark the centenary of the SFL  in 1990 records what happened.  The five clubs were in danger of being  voted out. However, Stenhousemuir committee member Robert Turpey, who  was also a lawyer, and strongly supported by the other clubs, was  successful in raising an interim interdict on their behalf.â€
The  matter was eventually resolved out of court in November 1964 amid  promises that the clubs would remain in the SFL and any new league that  was formed. Thomson added: â€œThat decision probably marks the start of a  move to three professional leagues that started a decade later when the  Premier League along with Divisions 1 and 2 were created.â€
However,  Rangersâ€™ role in the wrangle caused a lot of anger at the time,  especially in Stranraer. Present-day committee member Shaun Niven said:  â€œI know that a lot of people in the town were unhappy with what had gone  on. Stranraer are Scotlandâ€™s third oldest team as we were formed in  1870 after just Queenâ€™s Park and Kilmarnock. We waited over 80 years to  be admitted to the old-style Division Two and to be told after ten years  that we were not wanted caused a lot of resentment. The clubs that had  been targeted rallied round to win their case and remain in the SFL to  this day.â€ 
Looking at Rangersâ€™ present predicament, Niven added:  â€œThis situation is another of the great ironies that football throws up.  We could now determine whether Rangers get into the SFL and what  division they come into after they tried to throw us out all those years  ago.
â€œThis whole situation is full of issues going full circle as  it has probably accelerated the amalgamation of the SPL and the SFL 15  years after they were spilt apart by SPL sides led by Rangers and  Celtic. Now one league body is seen as the way forward.â€
Berwick,  of course, took a measure of revenge on the park less than two years  later when they defeated Rangers 1-0 in a Scottish Cup tie, and now the  fate of the club that wanted to expel them and four others could sit in  their collective hands.
If it comes to a vote at the SFL,  Stranraer would have to balance the prospect of placing Rangers in the  First Division for the good of the game overall against their own  promotion to the Second Division, as they were the losing play-off side  last month and weigh up the benefit of eight local derbies against Queen  of the South and Ayr United to an overall package that benefits the SFL  overall.
Niven added, â€œNothing will be pre-judged based on what  happened nearly 50 years ago. If we have to make a decision we will do  that based on what is best for Stranraer FC and Scottish football  overall
		
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Lots of clubs lining up to sink the boot in deep

:rofl:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			"No one likes us, we don't care" (well untill now that is)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/range...nnows-could-come-back-to-haunt-club-1-2375352



Lots of clubs lining up to sink the boot in deep

:rofl:
		
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No doubt the media will be digging deep for all the old grudges. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

However, a voice of reason...




_Niven added, â€œNothing will be pre-judged based on what happened nearly 50 years ago. If we have to make a decision we will do that based on what is best for Stranraer FC and Scottish football overall
_​

Click to expand...

​


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Interesting question. My (probably dodgy) recollection was that the Airdrie guys bought Clydebank specifically to use it to resurrect Airdrie.

There's a school of thought that we've got too many clubs and could possibly improve our game with a blank sheet of paper and working out which parts of the country can support a team or teams. Kind of a franchise system.

*So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).*

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.
		
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And here we have the typical Old Firm arrogance

Yes it does make sense because Livingstone, like Celtic, like Forfar, like every other team in Scotland has its own identity, its own history and its own fans.

What do you want to happen? Will we just close down every "wee" team and make every football supporter left without a club pick which one of the Old Firm they want to support then the ugly sisters can play each other 38 times a season in a two team super league. 

You have came across as a quite untypically sensible Old Firm fan so far but you just cant quite keep the "big club" arrogance hidden


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



			And here we have the typical Old Firm arrogance

Yes it does make sense because Livingstone, like Celtic, like Forfar, like every other team in Scotland has its own identity, its own history and its own fans.

What do you want to happen? Will we just close down every "wee" team and make every football supporter left without a club pick which one of the Old Firm they want to support then the ugly sisters can play each other 38 times a season in a two team super league. 

You have came across as a quite untypically sensible Old Firm fan so far but you just cant quite keep the "big club" arrogance hidden
		
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Huge overreaction to a throwaway remark I made when considering the point Valentino made w.r.t how Meadowbank Thistle moving to Livingston differed from Clydebank being forceably moved to Airdrie.

I've stated on here that I don't want to see any clubs going to the wall and have argued that Clydebank shouldn't have been forced out of business. So I think my view on the "wee" teams should be clear.

You have huge blinkers on when it comes to the old firm and are just looking to jump on anything I or any other fan says here.

EDIT: In fact, why don't you highlight the rest of my point instead of just the bit that fits your agenda:



FairwayDodger said:



So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs).

But as someone who's just lost her club and finds it quite upsetting it's hard to argue for the demise of others.

Click to expand...


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Huge overreaction to a throwaway remark I made when considering the point Valentino made w.r.t how Meadowbank Thistle moving to Livingston differed from Clydebank being forceably moved to Airdrie.

I've stated on here that I don't want to see any clubs going to the wall and have argued that Clydebank shouldn't have been forced out of business. So I think my view on the "wee" teams should be clear.

You have huge blinkers on when it comes to the old firm and are just looking to jump on anything I or any other fan says here.
		
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*"So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs)."

*So what exactly did that mean then? We should keep Livingston but move them further away from a big (cough) team like Hibs?

Its not the fans of the "wee" teams that have the huge blinkers on, the fans of the "wee" teams are the ones who contrary to what the Old Firm believe are the lifes blood of Scottish football and if the vote for Newco to the SPL/SFL doesnt go the way the fans of the "wee" clubs firmly believe it should then these same fans will be the ones who drive the final nail into the coffin of Scottish football.

Just think, if you want to watch football in the future you may just have to go watch one of these "wee" teams because that big massive, world famous super club of yours may no longer exist.

I highlighted that part as that was the part that displayed the typical arrogance of Old Firm fans that so annoys supporters of "wee" teams


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			I've stated on here that I don't want to see any clubs going to the wall and have argued that *Clydebank shouldn't have been forced out of business.* So I think my view on the "wee" teams should be clear.
		
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They weren't, they were bought and rebranded.

A bit like your local newsagent being bought by Spar and becoming Spar.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



*"So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs)."

*So what exactly did that mean then? We should keep Livingston but move them further away from a big (cough) team like Hibs?
		
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<deep sigh> OK... he said, she said...

Valentino said that it made commercial sense for the owners of Meadowbank Thistle to move their club to the new town of Livingston and a broader fan base.

My remark was simply considering that point and musing about the proximity of Meadowbank Stadium to Easter Road.

I don't actually have a strong view on this one - I hadn't considered the point until Valentino raised it. 



smange said:



			Just think, if you want to watch football in the future you may just have to go watch one of these "wee" teams because that big massive, world famous super club of yours may no longer exist.
		
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You might notice I live in Edinburgh these days. Over the last few years I've attended more Hibs and Hearts games than Rangers but I'm a neutral at these games and could never get the passion to support any club other than the one my dad took me to when I was a child and that I have supported for the subsequent thirty-odd years.


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## thecraw (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



*"So in the example of Livingston, it doesn't make much sense to have a wee team playing just a ten minute walk from a bigger team (Hibs)."

*So what exactly did that mean then? We should keep Livingston but move them further away from a big (cough) team like Hibs?

Its not the fans of the "wee" teams that have the huge blinkers on, the fans of the "wee" teams are the ones who contrary to what the Old Firm believe are the lifes blood of Scottish football and if the vote for Newco to the SPL/SFL doesnt go the way the fans of the "wee" clubs firmly believe it should then these same fans will be the ones who drive the final nail into the coffin of Scottish football.

Just think, if you want to watch football in the future you may just have to go watch one of these "wee" teams because that big massive, world famous super club of yours may no longer exist.

I highlighted that part as that was the part that displayed the typical arrogance of Old Firm fans that so annoys supporters of "wee" teams
		
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I'm not a supporter of a big team however we have more European Trophies than any of the Old Farm. That said I also happen to think there are far too many diddy teams in Scottish Football who live from hand to mouth and prey to God that they get a bumper Scottish Cup Tie against an Old Farm team.

These teams take money out of football and offer virtually nothing in return. 

Scottish football needs striped to the bone and blown apart before it can ever move forward and for me some of these "wee" teams need to go to!

My local junior side Arthurlie attract more punters than Albion Rovers for example and when they get a Pollok deby you can get between 2&3k fans which some first division sides would be jealous off!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			They weren't, they were bought and rebranded.

A bit like your local newsagent being bought by Spar and becoming Spar.
		
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Legally yes, but not, I'm sure how the Clydebank fans see it.

Sheesh! Against you I'm the defender of the wee teams and against Smange I'm the big bad arrogant old firm bully.

EDIT:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



			I highlighted that part as that was the part that displayed the typical arrogance of Old Firm fans that so annoys supporters of "wee" teams
		
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While ignoring the next paragraph that clarified my position.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I'm not a supporter of a big team
		
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Whoa there, you potentially support the 3rd or 4th biggest team in the country in aberdeen, it's just a pit the fans/board/players don't play or act like it.

It's the one and and only real chance of radical change in Scotland, a chance to make it miles better.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



*Legally yes*, but not, I'm sure how the Clydebank fans see it.

Sheesh! Against you I'm the defender of the wee teams and against Smange I'm the big bad arrogant old firm bully.

EDIT: 

Click to expand...

We got there eventually FD


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			We got there eventually FD 

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Sure.... of course Spar aren't planning to move my local newsagent 20 miles to the other side of Glasgow are they?


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## chris661 (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Legally yes, but not, I'm sure how the Clydebank fans see it.

Sheesh! Against you I'm the defender of the wee teams and against Smange I'm the big bad arrogant old firm bully.

EDIT: 

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Well coming from Clydebank and being a Clydebank supporter the Steedmans had RUINED Clydebank by selling the ground, promising to build a new one which never materialised, so it was only a matter of time before the went pop.


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I'm not a supporter of a big team however we have more European Trophies than any of the Old Farm. That said I also happen to think there are far too many diddy teams in Scottish Football who live from hand to mouth and prey to God that they get a bumper Scottish Cup Tie against an Old Farm team.

These teams take money out of football and offer virtually nothing in return. 

Scottish football needs striped to the bone and blown apart before it can ever move forward and for me some of these "wee" teams need to go to!

My local junior side Arthurlie attract more punters than Albion Rovers for example and when they get a Pollok deby you can get between 2&3k fans which some first division sides would be jealous off!
		
Click to expand...

I agree with you in part Craw.

Yes some of the junior sides have far bigger crowds and also better facilities and they do deserve a chance to prove themselves in the leagues if they prove themselves on the field. 

We need relegation from the bottom league and promotion into the leagues from regional "super leagues" from the junior leagues. There are a couple of teams who finish on or near the bottom of the 3rd division year on year, playing away safely in the knowledge that their league status isnt under threat. 

Look at the clubs who have came through into the leagues in recent years in England, most have came up with a healthy balance sheet and a set up that some of the long time league clubs would die for, they also bring with them an excitement with their fans and it brings a buzz to the league. most of them have proved themselves in the league set up and survived. 

I feel this is one way forward for Scottish football

But every team deserves the chance to survive, albeit some of them may need to drop down to the junior ranks to find their level both on and off the field but they have as much right to play in the leagues as Rangers and Celtic do as long as they can meet the criteria both on and off the pitch.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Sure.... of course Spar aren't planning to move my local newsagent 20 miles to the other side of Glasgow are they? 

Click to expand...

They could close it and open a new one though with more customers. Same thing?


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			While ignoring the next paragraph that clarified my position.
		
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Anyway there is only one "wee team" and they play at Starks Park, Kirkcaldy


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## GreiginFife (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



			Anyway there is only one "wee team" and they play at Starks Park, Kirkcaldy  

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I thought it was the Central Park Mob now that they are in the same league (for now)...?


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			I thought it was the Central Park Mob now that they are in the same league (for now)...?
		
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Nah the Rovers are and always will be affectionately known as "the wee team" their fans love it


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



			I agree with you in part Craw.

Yes some of the junior sides have far bigger crowds and also better facilities and they do deserve a chance to prove themselves in the leagues if they prove themselves on the field. 

We need relegation from the bottom league and promotion into the leagues from regional "super leagues" from the junior leagues. There are a couple of teams who finish on or near the bottom of the 3rd division year on year, playing away safely in the knowledge that their league status isnt under threat. 

Look at the clubs who have came through into the leagues in recent years in England, most have came up with a healthy balance sheet and a set up that some of the long time league clubs would die for, they also bring with them an excitement with their fans and it brings a buzz to the league. most of them have proved themselves in the league set up and survived. 

I feel this is one way forward for Scottish football

But every team deserves the chance to survive, albeit some of them may need to drop down to the junior ranks to find their level both on and off the field but they have as much right to play in the leagues as Rangers and Celtic do as long as they can meet the criteria both on and off the pitch.
		
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Agreement!!

Stop the clock!!!!! :clap:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Valentino said:



			They could close it and open a new one though with more customers. Same thing? 

Click to expand...

That's OK for them but where will I buy my Irn Bru and my daily record? :lol:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Well coming from Clydebank and being a Clydebank supporter the Steedmans had RUINED Clydebank by selling the ground, promising to build a new one which never materialised, so it was only a matter of time before the went pop.
		
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That's right, I remember now you say it. It was Ian McColl who worked miracles managing them on a shoestring for a few years wasn't it? 

I'd guess you'd rather they'd survived than shipped off to Airdrie though even if it was pretty much a mercy killing.


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## GreiginFife (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



			Nah the Rovers are and always will be affectionately known as "the wee team" their fans love it 

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John Greer, the steward at Gullane would disagree there Smange... haha


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			That's right, I remember now you say it. It was Ian McColl who worked miracles managing them on a shoestring for a few years wasn't it? 

I'd guess you'd rather they'd survived than shipped off to Airdrie though even if it was pretty much a mercy killing.
		
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Late 90's yes, Ian McCall almost got Airdrie promoted prior to liquidation which would have been 2002 then off to Falkirk and did well too. Wheels came off his bogey when he went to Dundee Utd and it's been downhill since for him.


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I fear I may sound like Dodger here but its entirely what they deserve. Walk away from a mountain of debt, deceit and lies. Keep all your assets and start again debt free while Aberdeen, Dundee United Kilmarnock etc are servicing debt and trying their hardest to stay within their means and compete.

I actually do want Rangers to disappear for good!
		
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Back from a few days out of the country to find a post where I said that I hoped they died like Third Lanark has been scrubbed.....

Careful Craw,you obviously cannot get away with voicing opinions on here any more.

For the record though I'll tell you that after a few days away I am a tad disappointed that they have not gone to the grave like Third Lanark yet.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Dodger said:



			For the record though I'll tell you that after a few days away I am a tad disappointed that they have not gone to the grave like Third Lanark yet.
		
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We've had a right old chat about Airdrie and Clydebank and Meadowbank though. It's been interesting.

Dodger, I'm too young to remember Third Lanark. What happened with them - how did they go out of business?

And..... was it Rangers fault somehow?


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Dodger, I'm too young to remember Third Lanark. What happened with them - how did they go out of business?
		
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Wow..... looking at wikipedia it seems the more things change the more they stay the same.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Lanark_A.C.#The_End




The following months brought a Board of Trade investigation, revealing constant player squabbles and bitter internal struggles for power. These events finally took their toll and, eventually a liquidator was appointed.
The club was declared bankrupt after the Board of Trade enquiry and was liquidated in 1967. It was alleged that Boardroom corruption played a role in this outcome. On 1 July 1968 four former directors of Third Lanark were found guilty of contravening the Companies Act 1948 and fined Â£100 each. The investigation by the Board of Trade accused club chairman, Bill Hiddleston, of blatant corruption and that "the circumstances (merited) police inquiry". Hiddleston died of a heart attack in Blackpool in November 1967.
The role of chairman Hiddleston in the club's liquidation was, and remains, the subject of debate among those close to Third Lanark. He may have wished to profit personally from the sale of Cathkin Park for property development. Cathkin Park was sold for housing during the 1967 close season, but Glasgow City Council refused planning permission. On the other hand, he built a new grandstand for the club in 1963, an unlikely thing to do if Hiddleston intended to put the club out of business. Another allegation was that Hiddleston wanted to force the club to move to either Cumbernauld or East Kilbride - the then booming _New Towns_ within the Glasgow commuter belt, which at that time had no senior sides of their own.
The report by the Board of Trade into Third Lanark's activities in 1967 found that players were paid late and often in coins rather than notes; they had to make their own way to away matches; hot water was not available after matches; and every appointment in the club's management was made personally by Hiddleston. This may have been a disincentive for anyone who was not close to Hiddlestone to remain working for, or remaining as a shareholder of, the club.


Click to expand...


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2012)

I hope the new leagues include a promotion starting point for the Ayrshire and Edinburgh junior clubs.[ for listeners in England, Junior football clubs in Scotland are not boys clubs, don't ask, in fact they are full of 40 year old bald ex semi pros who kick six bells out of each other, assault referees and start fights with the spectators.] Some of the Junior clubs attract decent crowds, 1000 plus at some games. One Junior club nearly beat my team Hearts in the latter rounds of the SFA cup.
A league feeder system is required to enable new or improving clubs to enter the system.


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## thecraw (Jun 27, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I hope the new leagues include a promotion starting point for the Ayrshire and Edinburgh junior clubs.[ for listeners in England, Junior football clubs in Scotland are not boys clubs, don't ask, in fact they are full of 40 year old bald ex semi pros who kick six bells out of each other, assault referees and start fights with the spectators.] Some of the Junior clubs attract decent crowds, 1000 plus at some games. One Junior club nearly beat my team Hearts in the latter rounds of the SFA cup.
A league feeder system is required to enable new or improving clubs to enter the system.
		
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Why would you ignore the Central League giants of Arthurlie, Pollok, Maryhill etc. If you ever get the chance get to Petershill and look at the old ground they had. It just shows what support these juniors once commanded. 

I stood on the terraces there and could easily imagine the workers pouring out of the nearby (disused) factory's in the heydays and steaming through the turnstiles. Fantastic bit of history that should be preserved.

Also talking about Third Lanark, the ground is still there and I once stood in the centre of the park (while working) and got goosebumps. Weird feeling!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 27, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Also talking about Third Lanark, the ground is still there and I once stood in the centre of the park (while working) and got goosebumps. Weird feeling!
		
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I've been there too. You can almost feel the ghosts....


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 27, 2012)

Crawford.
Having spent so much time in England I am not really up with the ins and outs of Junior Fitba. I only know that the couple of matches I watched were pretty scarey. One game there five coaching staff on the park pushing each other about while the ref just carried on with the game.
To referee a junior match must take some courage.


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2012)

John Brown on the TV there..........:mmm:

It's the usual 'we arra peeepil' pish from one of 'ra Rangers family' which is designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator in the Rangers support.

He comes out, talks hard man crap, and makes it seem like ra Gers are some kind of important and vital institution that is far, far, far too big to fail......instead of a failed and discredited ex-football club who's future is in the hands of the like of Peterhead and Brechin.

Oh, and he's got Andy Goram backing him up.:rofl:

We're surely only one step away from someone from 'ra Rangers family' stepping out and promising 'nae mair fenians or kaffliks at ra famous Glasgow Rangers'......'This is Glasgow Rangers Green's dealing with' said Broon.......news for you pal,it's no,yer broon breed.:whoo:


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jun 27, 2012)

Just heard of another departure from ibrox, apparently Broxi Bear has just left for Blair Drummond Safari Park :lol:


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Utterly hilarious.

Brown isn't for real is he? Heading up a consortium yet says words like 'Texes' 'Mooth' 'Hunners' 'Hiv' and threatens to 'Hunt down Green for the rest of his days'.

Utter clowns,do these fans not realise that some of these supposed consortium members will be using money that killed the club to buy the corpse??!!

Brown asked by the press where they would get the cash to actually run the club......huge silence before Brown says 'These peepul will no walk away from coming to wetch thur team'.....in other words 'Ah havny a scooby doo pal,how am I suppost tae ken that'.:lol:

You couldny make it up,they really are the gift that just keeps giving.:whoo:

http://yfrog.com/f26h0z


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## DelB (Jun 27, 2012)

Sandy Jardine is another Grade A Trumpet. Absolute tool of a man.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2012)

DelB said:



			Sandy Jardine is another Grade A Trumpet. Absolute tool of a man.
		
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I'm surprised he's not got the cardboard and crayons out again


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## Iaing (Jun 27, 2012)

I thought John Brown came across as an uneducated thug in the interview.


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## thecraw (Jun 27, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I thought John Brown came across as an uneducated thug in the interview.
		
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He certainly used to play like one!


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

I take back everything I said about Raith Rovers

Statement from their Chairman Turnbull Hutton:

"This is the same Rangers whose supporters threatened to torch our stadium and whose manager demanded that one of our directors was named over his involvement with an SFA judicial panel, which resulted in TV cameras camping outside his door and threats being made by various outlandish factions. We also had Sandy Jardine publicly calling for repercussions for those clubs who have not supported Rangers."Given that, how could I, as an individual, be expected to roll over and have my tummy tickled by some inducement to allow Rangers to come into the First Division. I gave my opinion to the board on Monday night and the board had a position which was not in any way different from my own.

"That does not mean, if and when there is a meeting of the SFL clubs and a vote, that the outcome will go the way we want it to go. I imagine some clubs will see some short-term advantage to be had.

"But if, long-term, you cheese off your season-ticket holders and supporters and backers, is it worth it? Do you sell your position for 30 pieces of silver for some short-term advantage or take the moral high ground?

Well said that man:thup: :clap:


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## chris661 (Jun 27, 2012)

smange said:



			I take back everything I said about Raith Rovers

Statement from their Chairman Turnbull Hutton:

"This is the same Rangers whose supporters threatened to torch our stadium and whose manager demanded that one of our directors was named over his involvement with an SFA judicial panel, which resulted in TV cameras camping outside his door and threats being made by various outlandish factions. We also had Sandy Jardine publicly calling for repercussions for those clubs who have not supported Rangers."Given that, how could I, as an individual, be expected to roll over and have my tummy tickled by some inducement to allow Rangers to come into the First Division. I gave my opinion to the board on Monday night and the board had a position which was not in any way different from my own.

"That does not mean, if and when there is a meeting of the SFL clubs and a vote, that the outcome will go the way we want it to go. I imagine some clubs will see some short-term advantage to be had.

"But if, long-term, you cheese off your season-ticket holders and supporters and backers, is it worth it? Do you sell your position for 30 pieces of silver for some short-term advantage or take the moral high ground?

Well said that man:thup: :clap:



Click to expand...

Your hatred knows no bounds Stevie  

I honestly feel that there will be no football club playing at ibrox next year. Apparently green has all but done the deal to sell the ground for 8 mil and some folks have been asking about renting hampden :rofl: will save them a few quid as they will only need one stand .


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## thecraw (Jun 27, 2012)

Where did that quote come from???


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2012)

Murky,very murky....and that's the shenanigans around Ibrox at the moment,not the bath water of the fans of Sevco by the way.

I am quickly running out of popcorn.


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Your hatred knows no bounds Stevie  

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No hatred here matey

Just looking out for my own team and sporting integrity


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## smange (Jun 27, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Where did that quote come from???
		
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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footba...or-newco-to-join-division-one-86908-23901295/


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## chris661 (Jun 27, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Where did that quote come from???
		
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I am guessing that this was for me







Here you go.


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## SS2 (Jun 28, 2012)

The quote from the Raith Rovers chairman makes me wish that we had more people like that running our game.

Meanwhile Sandy Jardine's claim that "I have to be honest and say I think the players have used our predicament to their gain" shows a crassness beyond belief.

John Brown's interview reminded me of the Big Man sketches from Chewin' The Fat. Comedy brilliance.


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## SS2 (Jun 28, 2012)

First class analysis of the ownership of the assets by someone who seems to know what he is talking about.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.c...88-why-did-they-sell-ibrox-to-sevco-scotland/


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## Kaizer_Soze (Jun 28, 2012)

smange said:



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footba...or-newco-to-join-division-one-86908-23901295/

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Given Ally McCoist's quotes over the 12 month transfer ban debacle - 

I hope that is transparent enough for you Ally !!!! 

Proud of my wee team right now 

p.s smange, Dundee for the SPL


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## Val (Jun 28, 2012)

Another day of drama beckons at The Rangers/Sevco 5088/ Sevco Scotland or whatever they want called today.

Anyone fancy a guess on how many players turn up for training?

Definate 3 anyway.


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Another day of drama beckons at The Rangers/Sevco 5088/ Sevco Scotland or whatever they want called today.

Anyone fancy a guess on how many players turn up for training?

Definate 3 anyway.
		
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Seemingly 11 turned up but that includes two keepers so not even a full team.


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## thecraw (Jun 28, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Seemingly 11 turned up but that includes two keepers so not even a full team.
		
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McGregor????


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Another day of drama beckons at The Rangers/Sevco 5088/ Sevco Scotland or whatever they want called today.

Anyone fancy a guess on how many players turn up for training?

Definate 3 anyway.
		
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I was thinking about going along for a trial but I'm a bit past my best....


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

As a Jambo it pleases me no end that sevco 5580 will be paying Lee Wallace's wages for the next 2 years.
There is a hell of a lot of Karma floating around this thread.


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As a Jambo it pleases me no end that sevco 5580 will be paying Lee Wallace's wages for the next 2 years.
There is a hell of a lot of Karma floating around this thread.
		
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It would suit them better to cough up the 800,000 they still owe for himm. I see rapid are going to uefa/FIFA over the jelavic money as secco are to get the remainder from everton.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

chris661 said:



			It would suit them better to cough up the 800,000 they still owe for himm. I see rapid are going to uefa/FIFA over the jelavic money as secco are to get the remainder from everton.
		
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It's funny how that works, isn't it? I mean in general - not just football. Debtors still have to pay up and creditors get screwed. Not fair really.


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## sydney greenstreet (Jun 28, 2012)

This must be the longest thread on here so far is it not ? anyway im away to get some jelly and ice cream while doing the conga at the party with Craig Whytes fenian army 
:whoo:


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## Val (Jun 28, 2012)

thecraw said:



			McGregor????
		
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Scott Gallacher


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

thecraw said:



			McGregor????
		
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Stolen from twitter. 

 In for training: Alexander, Gallacher, Broadfoot, Perry, Hutton, Cole, K Naismith, Hegarty, Wallace, McCulloch, Mitchell, Hemmings

Has the makings of a good team :mmm:


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## Dodger (Jun 28, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Stolen from twitter. 

 In for training: Alexander, Gallacher, Broadfoot, Perry, Hutton, Cole, K Naismith, Hegarty, Wallace, McCulloch, Mitchell, Hemmings

Has the makings of a good team :mmm:
		
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2 stand out,I mean how old is Paul Hegarty now and imagine Ashley being sent to Sevco as part of his punishment for missing that penalty....very harsh,even for an Englishman.


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

chris661 said:



			It would suit them better to cough up the 800,000 they still owe for himm. I see rapid are going to uefa/FIFA over the jelavic money as secco are to get the remainder from everton.
		
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Are you sure the new club is getting future Jelavic revenues. In corporate law that would go to the admins of old business and straight to the creditors. 

Also RFC have not been paid prize money for SPL from last season. Hearts did not appear on the CVA voting minutes as a creditor. Suspect that the SPL would settle RFC debt with them


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## Val (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Are you sure the new club is getting future Jelavic revenues. In corporate law that would go to the admins of old business and straight to the creditors. 

Also RFC have not been paid prize money for SPL from last season. Hearts did not appear on the CVA voting minutes as a creditor. *Suspect that the SPL would settle RFC debt with them*

Click to expand...

That is possible I suppose and tend to agree on the Jelavic monies too which would give big Charlie even less dosh to play with.

Jamie Ness reported to be signing with Stoke.


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## smange (Jun 28, 2012)

breaking news on Sky Sports that SPL planning to relegate Rangers to First Division after talks with SFL:angry:

If this happens it is the end for Scottish Football


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Are you sure the new club is getting future Jelavic revenues. In corporate law that would go to the admins of old business and straight to the creditors. 

Also RFC have not been paid prize money for SPL from last season. Hearts did not appear on the CVA voting minutes as a creditor. Suspect that the SPL would settle RFC debt with them
		
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Was reported on the bbc doesn't really mean much I know but there you go.


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

smange said:



			breaking news on Sky Sports that SPL planning to relegate Rangers to First Division after talks with SFL:angry:

If this happens it is the end for Scottish Football
		
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Agreed but a couple kfthe Internet bampots reckon that this is a pr stunt from sevco which is goig to hide some news regarding murray park


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

Smange
This would only be acceptable if Dunfermline remain in the SPL.
If they promote Dundee, who were over 20 points behind The Staggies, it would be tremendously unfair.

Looking at thier squad and finances I don't think promotion from Div 1 is  a certainty.

It is starting to look like reorganisation with two bigger leagues for next season.
I somehow feel the hand of 'the establisment' in this move.


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## smange (Jun 28, 2012)

Its totally unacceptable in my opinion.

Rangers from last season do not exist, if they did you could almost make an arguement for the first division but as The Rangers are a new club they have to start at the bottom.

Anything else and I and I know many others will never set foot in another Scottish football ground and this includes matches for the national side.

And if the SFL clubs vote for them to be allowed into the first they may expect a large percentage of their fans to turn their backs on them.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

smange said:



			Its totally unacceptable in my opinion.

Rangers from last season do not exist, if they did you could almost make an arguement for the first division but as The Rangers are a new club they have to start at the bottom.

Anything else and I and I know many others will never set foot in another Scottish football ground and this includes matches for the national side.

And if the SFL clubs vote for them to be allowed into the first they may expect a large percentage of their fans to turn their backs on them.
		
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Don't want to be rude but I don't believe you, sorry. Very few people (who actually attend matches) are going to completely stop going to football if this happens. I mean, you think Celtic fans are going to abandon their club over it? No chance.

That said, I agree that it's totally wrong. It's a fudge cooked up by the hypocritical SPL teams. They were all for their "sporting integrity" but are now trying to cover their arses and get "Rangers" back in asap. Newsflash for them is that I doubt Rangers as they stand would be able to win promotion from div 1 next season anyway.

Ignore anything coming out of "Rangers" just now. Charles Green has no interest in the club, he's there to make money and the higher up the tree Rangers rejoin the sooner he cuts and runs.

Only two options for me - stick with the status quo and allow a new Rangers to rebuild for div 3. Or, grasp the nettle and radically restructure Scottish Football. The latter is very tough though - we just don't have the right spirit or leaders to make these sort of changes. Too open to accusations that it was only done to preserve Rangers rather than to genuinely improve our game.

I don't know what the new structure would be BTW, and I'm not arguing for a new structure with Rangers back at the top, just speculating, so don't want flamed again!

Frankly, as I've said before, I vote for Rangers in div 3 with a clean slate.


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I somehow feel the hand of 'the establisment' in this move.
		
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Really.

You think Rangers are in position to ask SPL clubs to allow the any of the following

1) possibility of an extra SFL Club in via a play off and the espense of a current SPL club. 
2)
In a position to demand a merger of the SPL and SFL.

3) SPL Clubs to give up some cash by making changes to the distribution model for clubs in the top two tiers with teams in the lower leagues earning a similar amount to the current set-up

4) SPL to pay SFL TV revenues for RFC games televised in the SFL


5) And Rangers to accept any punishments that were to be made to the Oldco are applicable to the Newco without knowing what they are.

THe SPL have rejected the playoff for years, why would it be accepted now on RFC demand??

Reports also state that Rod Petrie (Hibs chairman and on SPL board) is breifing Charles Green on this proposal. Looks more like it has come from the SPL board to get RFC back in for TV revenues

It certainly looks like SKY would honour a TV contract judging if RFC are in SFL1 hoping they get back to SPL quickly.


Fan pressure has forced SPL clubs into rejecting Newco. If the SPL Clubs statements about rejecting newco down to sporting integrity hold true, this deal should not be on the table. They are asking SFL clubs to forget any notion about sporting integrity by dangling an extra couple of carrots in front of them.

It remains to be seen if these extra carrots would make the SFL clubs who have already voiced a rejection change there mind. What i do think is certain though is that SFL2 and SFL3 clubs would reject this. Reports state that their revenue streams would remain the same and no extra money from SPL would flow down this far. Why would they basically vote for a no change and pass on the possibility of meeting Rangers if they work their way back up the leagues.


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## smange (Jun 28, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't want to be rude but I don't believe you, sorry. Very few people (who actually attend matches) are going to completely stop going to football if this happens. I mean, you think Celtic fans are going to abandon their club over it? No chance.
		
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You love argueing with me dont you 

I did say SFL clubs so unless you know something that we dont I dont think Celtic are currently an SFL club

I spend a lot of time on the Dunfermline forum and other lower league clubs forums and I can tell you from them that the feelings are running high among the fans of the "wee teams" and I can tell you that there are a lot of Pars season ticket holders and other clubs season ticket holders that have held off renewing for next season until they see what the outcome is of this.

These clubs need to weigh up whats important to them, one one hand its a season of higher crowds, which is only 2 games of the season and remember a lot of the grounds in the first division only have smallish capacities against losing a percentage of their own support indefinitely.

I know what I would prefer if I was a chairman and it doesnt involve selling my own fans out.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

smange said:



			You love argueing with me dont you 

Click to expand...

It would seem so but you do know how to tempt me in! 



smange said:



			I did say SFL clubs so unless you know something that we dont I dont think Celtic are currently an SFL club

Click to expand...

I did miss that distinction, I must admit, but I think it generally applies to SPL supporters as well.



smange said:



			I spend a lot of time on the Dunfermline forum and other lower league clubs forums and I can tell you from them that the feelings are running high among the fans of the "wee teams" and I can tell you that there are a lot of Pars season ticket holders and other clubs season ticket holders that have held off renewing for next season until they see what the outcome is of this.

These clubs need to weigh up whats important to them, one one hand its a season of higher crowds, which is only 2 games of the season and remember a lot of the grounds in the first division only have smallish capacities against losing a percentage of their own support indefinitely.

I know what I would prefer if I was a chairman and it doesnt involve selling my own fans out.
		
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I absolutely believe that feelings are running high. What I don't believe is that the majority of people who support football and actively follow one of the other clubs will abandon their teams over this. Some will, I dare say, but the majority of you are just mouthing off, trying to put the pressure on your clubs.

Which is fair enough, actually, but you shouldn't overplay your hand.


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## thecraw (Jun 28, 2012)

Time for every fan to boycott Ibrox for life. A complete set up and cop out by the old boys establishment that run Scottish Football or is it Murdoch at it again trying to grease his palm again.

Newco should be third division and stripped of their assest to pay back what they owe. 

Disgusted at the typical bow to the old farm attitude by the authorities that run our game.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Time for every fan to boycott Ibrox for life. A complete set up and cop out by the old boys establishment that run Scottish Football or is it Murdoch at it again trying to grease his palm again.

Newco should be third division and stripped of their assest to pay back what they owe. 

Disgusted at the typical bow to the old farm attitude by the authorities that run our game.
		
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Nothing to do with the so-called "establishment" this is self-interest by the SPL and money-grabbing by Green who doesn't care one iota for the long-term interests of Rangers or Scottish football.


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Nothing to do with the so-called "establishment" this is self-interest by the SPL and money-grabbing by Green who doesn't care one iota for the long-term interests of Rangers or Scottish football.
		
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The SFL have released a statement saying it isn't true. A couple of the folk I follow on twitter reckon this is a pr ploy to change the spotlight of the negativity surrounding the actual owner of the assets and the plans for them.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

Sounds like it is business. The Wee clubs are just that, some struggling to get 300 fans through the doors.
Every one seems to think that the newco will return as The Mighty Gers. At the moment the are about the same standard as the average 1st division team. They will have no money to spend so they will not be able to buy thier opponents best players and put them in the reserves. It will take at least 5 years for newco to become an average SPL team. 
In the meantime clubs like Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs Dundee United and St Jonstone have an opportunity to compete at the top and increase thier fan base. If they had any go in them they would be pushing hard. Celtic are obviously well ahead of the others at the moment. They will be hit hardest financially by the Ibrox fiasco.
The good news is that it paves the way to a better football world.
We need to lose some of the wee teams, sorry but that is a hard fact.
Two leagues of 16 teams is just about workable on a full time basis. A league feeder system into league 2.
If the cost of that is newco coming into the 1st div [second tier] then i'm all for it.


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## sydney greenstreet (Jun 28, 2012)

Someone might be able to clarify this for me , but as Rangers FC no longer exist as they went into liquidation how come the newco get to play at murray park and Ibrox ? surely these should be sold to cover costs to creditors just the same as any other company that went into liquidation ?


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Time for every fan to boycott Ibrox for life.
		
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 Why just ibrox? The SPL clubs need to be in agreement to this plan




thecraw said:



			Newco should be stripped of their assest to pay back what they owe.
		
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But they paid money to purchase the assets. Are you saying that after purchasing assets they should be stripped of them again??? How would that work under UK law??


The moral argument about paying all debts back may be correct but unfortunately thats not how it works for any business


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

sydney greenstreet said:



			Someone might be able to clarify this for me , but as Rangers FC no longer exist as they went into liquidation how come the newco get to play at murray park and Ibrox ? surely these should be sold to cover costs to creditors just the same as any other company that went into liquidation ?
		
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They were! Sevco bought them. Do keep up


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## sydney greenstreet (Jun 28, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			They were! Sevco bought them. Do keep up 

Click to expand...

I know that but where does the Â£6 million or so go to ?


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			They were! Sevco bought them. Do keep up 

Click to expand...

Ok... but was it Sevco 5088 or Sevco Scotland that bought them


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

sydney greenstreet said:



			I know that but where does the Â£6 million or so go to ?
		
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Pays for the administrators and then creditors get a paltry pence in the pound amount. Poor show.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Ok... but was it Sevco 5088 or Sevco Scotland that bought them 

Click to expand...

The more I think about it "Sevco Rangers" has a ring to it..... :mmm:


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## sydney greenstreet (Jun 28, 2012)

So  Green and Whyte has had a hand in Rangers demise ?
:thup:


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Ok... but was it Sevco 5088 or Sevco Scotland that bought them 

Click to expand...

This is where the legal challenge would come from if anybody wanted to. A binding contract but with which sevco? It has turned into a giant grade A mess. Where this actually goes is crazy and TBH with the introducion of "bomber" brown it gets EVEN funnier whic I didn't think was possible!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

sydney greenstreet said:



			So  Green and Whyte has had a hand in Rangers demise ?
:thup:
		
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Oh Syd, have you been on holiday or have I slipped back in time?


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

chris661 said:



			This is where the legal challenge would come from if anybody wanted to. A binding contract but with which sevco? It has turned into a giant grade A mess. Where this actually goes is crazy and TBH with the introducion of "bomber" brown it gets EVEN funnier whic I didn't think was possible!
		
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Complete mess - total fiasco.

But depressing rather than funny from my perspective. Although I can appreciate why you'd see it the other way....


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			They were! Sevco bought them. Do keep up 

Click to expand...

It will go to the creditors.


EDIT: Would help if I qouted the right post.

I can't keep up :rofl:


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## thecraw (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Why just ibrox? The SPL clubs need to be in agreement to this plan




But they paid money to purchase the assets. Are you saying that after purchasing assets they should be stripped of them again??? How would that work under UK law??


The moral argument about paying all debts back may be correct but unfortunately thats not how it works for any business
		
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The old Rangers ran up debts these "assets" should have been striped and sold off to repay the HMRC bill, Police, Ambulance, Hearts, Dundee United etc etc etc .

Rangers should have been dead and buried instead of being given a new debt free ride.


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

thecraw said:



			these "assets" should have been striped and sold off to repay the HMRC bill, Police, Ambulance, Hearts, Dundee United etc etc etc .
		
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But thats what has happened. Any asset sale after liquidation will never cover the total debt (else there would never have been a liquidation event). 



thecraw said:



			Rangers should have been dead and buried instead of being given a new debt free ride.
		
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 Again i can't argue with the moral arguement but any CVA or newco asset purchase wipes the slate free and allows company/football club to walk free of the debt


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## sydney greenstreet (Jun 28, 2012)

Has a topic ever had 60 pages and counting  so far ?

61


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

sydney greenstreet said:



			Has a topic ever had 60 pages and counting so far ?

61
		
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Yes there have been a few and you need to change your settings, I am only at page 16


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## lobthewedge (Jun 28, 2012)

Agree with craw, Rangers should have been left to die after being stripped and squeezed for every possible penny to pay off genuine creditors.  

I hope that the genuine football fans trying to create a new and more wholesome Rangers succeed in ressurecting a club, starting from the very bottom rung of Scottish football.

Sadly I fear this wont be the case, the toxic DNA will live on and sooner or later the new club will be hijacked by bigots.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

lobthewedge said:



			I hope that the genuine football fans trying to create a new and more wholesome Rangers succeed in ressurecting a club, starting from the very bottom rung of Scottish football.

Sadly I fear this wont be the case, the toxic DNA will live on and sooner or later the new club will be hijacked by bigots.
		
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I fear you're probably right but we live in hope. Just maybe if they're put in div 3 and given an even break they can successfully ditch the sectarian baggage. There needs to be a concerted effort from day 1 to ensure that happens but I'm not convinced those in charge care enough.


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## birdieman (Jun 28, 2012)

The Â£5.5 mill will go to Duff and Phelps as they'll be top of the ever lengthening creditors queue. All that'll be left will be enough for a paper and a packet of hobnobs for SuperAlly to enjoy. Why are we hearing nothing from Coisty?

Heading straight to division 3 is not fair on the small clubs wanting into the SFL. As a kid I remember it took decades to let Highland teams in just because central belt teams didn't want to travel up there. CaleyT and Ross are now both premier league so that shows every team, no matter how small should be given an equal chance, no pushing in cos we're Rang...Sevco.

Had a look at the Rangers Forum, even some of the diehards on there are starting to see a little humour in this fiasco, someone was asking of the players that are left, who's maw was going to be washing the strips!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

birdieman said:



			Heading straight to division 3 is not fair on the small clubs wanting into the SFL.
		
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I tried to tackle this earlier but don't think I really managed to express it properly.

The fair thing would be to invite applicants for the spare place in div 3 and then the bids could be compared and the best one taken.

But you need to be realistic. Suppose Huntly put a bid in and it was compared against a new club, with a 50,000 seater UEFA registered stadium, state of the art training facilities and the likelihood of the second biggest support in the entire country (even though crowds will obviously be much lower than they were in the SPL). The "new Rangers" bid would just blow the others away, they'd be wasting their time and money.

The only reason to award the spot to one of the other bids would be historical, bitterness, punishment whatever but not based on a objective decision on what's best for the league.

Trying not to sound "arrogant" but that's just the way I see it.



birdieman said:



			Had a look at the Rangers Forum, even some of the diehards on there are starting to see a little humour in this fiasco, someone was asking of the players that are left, who's maw was going to be washing the strips!

Click to expand...

:lol:


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

Sadly or not sadly (depending on your allegiances) the only way to squeeze enough money for creditors is to sell the assets these being a training ground and a football stadium. The football stadium is not much use to anything other than a football club, therefore any buyer would be looking to continue/ resurrect the club. Ibrox is a pretty poor area and donâ€™t think any developer would be looking to build houses there especially as the Front building is Grade A listed and would have to be retained. As for supermarket/shopping development, both are pretty close nearby. The training ground at Milngavie would be of more interest to a property developer I would think, but I have heard reports that planning permission for houses on that land had been refused a number of times but donâ€™t know if that is true or not.

As for the sectarian issues I would like to think that the newco club could be free of it but I unfortunately donâ€™t think that will be the case. Some have said on here that they would like to see Rangers die and be rid of the sectarian baggage it brings. Canâ€™t argue with the wish to be rid of it for good but I think the bigots would attach themselves elsewhere and it would creep back into football. Football is only an outlet for sectarianism in this country and the problems go far deeper in my opinion.


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## Val (Jun 28, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Rangers should have been dead and buried instead of being given a new debt free ride.
		
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They aren't getting a free ride, they are getting a long slow torture from everyone including their current chief exec.

It's hilarious for everyone in Scottish football unconected to them


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## deekc (Jun 28, 2012)

Some have said on here that they would like to see Rangers die and be  rid of the sectarian baggage it brings. Canâ€™t argue with the wish to be  rid of it for good but I think the bigots would attach themselves  elsewhere and it would creep back into football. Football is only an  outlet for sectarianism in this country and the problems go far deeper  in my opinion

Does this sectarian issue only involve Rangers or is it an issue that Celtic have but like to disguise it. I do not follow Scottish football but have in the past read disturbing stories in regards to Celtic.

I think the quicker a decision is made about the rangers the better but all this talk is lame and I think the decision has already been made and it will have been done for the best interest in Scottish football and that the rangers will continue to be a big part of Scottish football.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

deekc said:



			Does this sectarian issue only involve Rangers or is it an issue that Celtic have but like to disguise it. I do not follow Scottish football but have in the past read disturbing stories in regards to Celtic.
		
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No offence Deekc, but the last thing this thread needs is someone stirring it. Apologies if your enquiry is genuine but there are too many red lights flashing to go down this route.


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## thecraw (Jun 28, 2012)

deekc said:



			Some have said on here that they would like to see Rangers die and be  rid of the sectarian baggage it brings. Canâ€™t argue with the wish to be  rid of it for good but I think the bigots would attach themselves  elsewhere and it would creep back into football. Football is only an  outlet for sectarianism in this country and the problems go far deeper  in my opinion

Does this sectarian issue only involve Rangers or is it an issue that Celtic have but like to disguise it. I do not follow Scottish football but have in the past read disturbing stories in regards to Celtic.

I think the quicker a decision is made about the rangers the better but all this talk is lame and I think the decision has already been made and it will have been done for the best interest in Scottish football and that the rangers will continue to be a big part of Scottish football.
		
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It takes two to tango!

Lets just leave it at that and make up your own mind!!!!!!!!!


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## lobthewedge (Jun 28, 2012)

deekc said:



			Does this sectarian issue only involve Rangers or is it an issue that Celtic have but like to disguise it. I do not follow Scottish football but have in the past read disturbing stories in regards to Celtic.
		
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Both clubs have it, but I'm not going to get drawn into any kind of argument about who is worse because I really couldnt care less about either club to tell the truth.  

My own theory is that if one club and the associated bigotry disappears, the other will soon follow.  They feed off and fuel one another as far as the bigotry is concerned, so if one dies common sense would dictate that over time the other one would eventually disipate.  

Just a theory, but like Stuart alluded to it is a far greater problem ingrained within Scottish society as a whole and would probably only rear its ugly head elsewhere.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

Well said Dodger.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

As a Hearts supporter the demise of Rangers is a bit of a worry.

We have a small group of bigoted monkeys in our support, let us hope the don't try to pick up the mantle of thier Glesga cousins.
Or even worse the Glesga cousins decide to transfer to Hearts.


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## thecraw (Jun 28, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As a Hearts supporter the demise of Rangers is a bit of a worry.

We have a small group of bigoted monkeys in our support, let us hope the don't try to pick up the mantle of thier Glesga cousins.
Or even worse the Glesga cousins decide to transfer to Hearts.
		
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Very true known as the diet huns or huns without a bus fare!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 28, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As a Hearts supporter the demise of Rangers is a bit of a worry.

We have a small group of bigoted monkeys in our support, let us hope the don't try to pick up the mantle of thier Glesga cousins.
Or even worse the Glesga cousins decide to transfer to Hearts.
		
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I understand your concern. Plenty of supporters travel from Edinburgh to Ibrox so might attach themselves.

I doubt it though. I go to see Hibs a fair bit but even if Rangers disappeared completely I couldn't see myself becoming a "fan".


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## deekc (Jun 28, 2012)

thecraw said:



			It takes two to tango!

Lets just leave it at that and make up your own mind!!!!!!!!!
		
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Okay, I kind of get the picture now.

Thanks


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Sadly or not sadly (depending on your allegiances) the only way to squeeze enough money for creditors is to sell the assets these being a training ground and a football stadium. The football stadium is not much use to anything other than a football club, therefore any buyer would be looking to continue/ resurrect the club. Ibrox is a pretty poor area and donâ€™t think any developer would be looking to build houses there especially as the Front building is Grade A listed and would have to be retained. As for supermarket/shopping development, both are pretty close nearby. The training ground at Milngavie would be of more interest to a property developer I would think, but I have heard reports that planning permission for houses on that land had been refused a number of times but donâ€™t know if that is true or not.

As for the sectarian issues I would like to think that the newco club could be free of it but I unfortunately donâ€™t think that will be the case. Some have said on here that they would like to see Rangers die and be rid of the sectarian baggage it brings. Canâ€™t argue with the wish to be rid of it for good but I think the bigots would attach themselves elsewhere and it would creep back into football. Football is only an outlet for sectarianism in this country and the problems go far deeper in my opinion.
		
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They managed quite well with highbury (?) to keep the facade and develop it and with the alleged brown envelope culture at Glasgow city council it wouldn't seem that difficult to get a work around. 

The training complex could be sold and the rugby team relocate and their old ground re developed, an option I have heard mooted even before I left Scotland years ago! 

The sectarian thing should be consigned to the histor bin and frankly they should build a bloody big jail and throw them all in there as far as I am concerned. Although as Stuart rightly points out it runs far far deeper than football.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

Oh Dear it is all kicking off now.

The SPL are proposing two 12 team leagues with Rangers playing in League 2 this season. The leagues will have automatic promotion and playoffs.
If the SFL do not agree the SPL will start a Div2 and invite SFL Div 1 sides to join.

Not much mention of the SFA here, are they hiding under the blankets.

Sounds quite good to me.


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## Val (Jun 28, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh Dear it is all kicking off now.

The SPL are proposing two 12 team leagues with Rangers playing in League 2 this season. The leagues will have automatic promotion and playoffs.
If the SFL do not agree the SPL will start a Div2 and invite SFL Div 1 sides to join.

Not much mention of the SFA here, are they hiding under the blankets.

Sounds quite good to me.
		
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Sounds like bully boy tactics, shocking if true however given the mood and stance from SPL and Div 1 clubs I'd be surprised if this is anything more than journalistic horse manure


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

Valentino
It is on the SPL website.


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## TPO77 (Jun 28, 2012)

I'll be disgusted if they allow Rangers into anything above the second division. Wouldn't surprise me since the Old Firm get over accommodated for anyway but still hardly a punishment. Can't see any point in merging leagues either since there aren't enough decent teams to fill it out. Whole things a pa lava.  New club = start at the bottom IMO. One rule for everyone and another for the Old Firm it seems.


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## Mungoscorner (Jun 28, 2012)

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/...clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

Quite a good read and two points stick out for me in this section

2. RANGERS TO THIRD DIVISION

â€¢Takes approximately Â£16 million out of the game

â€¢Commercial partners walk away and seek compensation

Looks like sky would terminate contract. Suddenly sporting integrity goes out the window


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## smange (Jun 28, 2012)

They can stick that proposal where the sun dont shine.

3rd division at best for The Rangers or Scottish football is finished as a sporting entity. This proves (if true) that Scottish football is rotten to the core and completely and utterly only run for the good of the Old Firm

If it happens im done with it.


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Quite a good read and two points stick out for me in this section

2. RANGERS TO THIRD DIVISION

â€¢Takes approximately Â£16 million out of the game

â€¢Commercial partners walk away and seek compensation

Looks like sky would terminate contract. Suddenly sporting integrity goes out the window
		
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16,000,000 divided up between all clubs is on average 400,000 which "shouldn't" be a problem as it will be weighted against the top tier as for the sjy thing it seems like scaremonger for the SFL as I would magine they get peanuts if anything. If this plan goes ahead it would be the absolute death knell for scottish fitba' as it is pandering to miney and nothing else. NOW is the time for PROPER restructuring of the game and not done to ensure a that money keeps coming into a busted flush?

Part of the terms of the deal is for Sevco to drop the fighting of the transfer embargo, now with the 12 players that turned up to training (3 of which are free agents and can walk at any time) they might not get out of a notoriously difficult league, what happens then? More embarrassment and ridicule from the people at the top? The more this goes on the more ridiculous it becomes and is in REAL danger of alienating fans across the board.


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

smange said:



			If it happens im done with it.
		
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Snap. As much as it pains me I will never return to watch another game (not that I get to as many as I would like)


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## StuartD (Jun 28, 2012)

Double post. Bloody phone and fat fingers


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## Dodger (Jun 28, 2012)

Can we go back to the bigotry/sectarian issue?

The 2 Glasgow clubs have it in abundance but anyone claiming it is solely attributable to those two clubs in Scotland is frankly a clown.

Try travelling the grounds the length and breadth of Scotland as a Celtic fan and you will see it in all it's glory for your own eyes....I did and what I saw for all those seasons went towards me binning my book for golf on a Saturday/Sunday.


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## chris661 (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Quite a good read and two points stick out for me in this section

2. RANGERS TO THIRD DIVISION

â€¢Takes approximately Â£16 million out of the game

â€¢Commercial partners walk away and seek compensation

Looks like sky would terminate contract. Suddenly sporting integrity goes out the window
		
Click to expand...




StuartD said:



			Quite a good read and two points stick out for me in this section

2. RANGERS TO THIRD DIVISION

â€¢Takes approximately Â£16 million out of the game

â€¢Commercial partners walk away and seek compensation

Looks like sky would terminate contract. Suddenly sporting integrity goes out the window
		
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You on your phone Stuart  :lol:


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## Dodger (Jun 28, 2012)

And if Sevco end up in anything bar the 3rd Division it says to all and sundry that there is nothing you can do that is bad enough to stop you being properly punished.

Vlad should announce,live on the pitch,just before kick off at Hearts 1st game of the season that the whole of the Scottish Game is run by a bunch of criminal fannies,put on a live sex show for the fans at half time followed by inviting all the fans onto the pitch at full time for an orgy with 40 prostitutes...for free....nothing could be done to reprimand the man...could it?

Actually, how much is a Hearts season book......??:lol:



Corruption on the grandest scale. This would probably finish me off with Scottish football all together, both domestically and internationally. The SFA have ducked out of their responsibility to football in this country for decades, be it youth development, player progression, league structure, commercial expansion etc... by doing less than f-all until recently. The second Sevco 5088 need a favour, they jump through hoops with their cohorts at the SPL/SFL to accommodate a dinosaur that, IMO, will be unable to even field a side if they are given the opportunity they are so undeserving of.

Disgrace to our game and utterly depressing.


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## Val (Jun 28, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Valentino
It is on the SPL website.
		
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Doesn't mention Rangers in second league just a statement saying the held talks! Link is to the BBC news feed


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

Yes Valentino.
I mistook the website.
Looks like the meeting has been well leaked to the press though!


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## Dodger (Jun 28, 2012)

If this were to go ahead it means that their punishment for a decade of cheating on the grandest scale will be the same as The Pars got recently for being marginally pisher than the Hibs.

Am I right??

Anyone able to work out how this is fitting punishment??

No,me neither.

It happens and the game is well and truly dead in Scotland...truly dead.


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## Iaing (Jun 28, 2012)

We're bought and sold for _anyone's _gold.
Such a parcel o' rogues in a nation !

 with apologies to Rabbie Burns ( who'd probably have been a hun anyway, so feck 'im !)


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## Alan (Jun 28, 2012)

Haven't bought my season books yet as I was waiting for the decision. I've been a season ticket holder for thirt years at Saints. If they are not banished to the third at least I'm finished with Scottish Football forever. Couruption bleeds through the SPL board.


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## AMcC (Jun 28, 2012)

StuartD;The training ground at Milngavie would be of more interest to a property developer I would think said:
			
		


			I am sure the Planning consent for the training ground was conditional that change of use would not be granted for residential use.
		
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## Dodger (Jun 28, 2012)

Interesting heads up from my man 'in the know'....Lawell is biding his/Celtic's time and if 'justice' is not done then he/the club will roll out a story of nuclear bomb proportions that will ensure that the correct thing and more is done.

He has been 'in the know' pretty much most of the way so far,interesting to see if his fine form continues.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

AMcC said:



			I am sure the Planning consent for the training ground was conditional that change of use would not be granted for residential use.
		
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I am fairly certain a large chunk of Sport Scotland grant money went into Murray Park.
Wonder how that gets figured out.


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## smange (Jun 29, 2012)

Go the Pars:whoo:

Dunfermline Athletic board release statement saying NO to Newco for the first division

http://www.dafc.co.uk/articles/2012...revised-sfa-spl-sfl-proposals_2208030_2827302

My faith has been restored:thup:


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## Iaing (Jun 29, 2012)

I dare say the goal posts will be moved a few times yet Stephen.


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## smange (Jun 29, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I dare say the goal posts will be moved a few times yet Stephen.
		
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Of that I have no doubt Iain but as long as my club is making a stance against the bullies I can rest easily.

Dont know if you read the statement but the club released a survey on their official website and in 3 days had over 2000 replies of which 95.4% of were a No to Newco in the first division and 96.1% agreed that Newco should have to apply for membership of the 3rd division.

Pretty damning results for Newco:thup:


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

I'd be very interested to see a poll of Rangers fans. How many want SPL, Div 1, Div 3?

Div 3 for me as I've said (or the bottom rung of any restructured setup).

Don't think we'd get 90% for Div 3 but a pretty high proportion I reckon.

Of course, nobody is asking them.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2012)

smange said:



			Go the Pars:whoo:

Dunfermline Athletic board release statement saying NO to Newco for the first division

http://www.dafc.co.uk/articles/2012...revised-sfa-spl-sfl-proposals_2208030_2827302

My faith has been restored:thup:
		
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Your faith in what?

There's nothing groundbreaking about this,the Huns should be in Division 3 at best and as a Newco it puzzles me why they are seemingly by-passing the likes of Spartans and Cove etc.


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## Iaing (Jun 29, 2012)

Yes, I read the statement. Probably get similar results if you canvas any club's fans ( apart from the newco of course ). It's good to see some clubs are listening to the fans.
I do think there will be a huge backlash from the fans of the "diddy" teams as we're known by the OF.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			it puzzles me why they are seemingly by-passing the likes of Spartans and Cove etc.
		
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Do you disagree with my thinking on this (posted a couple of times on this thread now)?


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Do you disagree with my thinking on this (posted a couple of times on this thread now)?
		
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remind me,it's a long thread and it's about your lot....

I am guessing you are saying that the teams who have spent precious cash on trying to gain entry to the SFL should take precedent before your lot??


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			remind me,it's a long thread and it's about your lot....

I am guessing you are saying that the teams who have spent precious cash on trying to gain entry to the SFL should take precedent before your lot??
		
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Will try to keep it brief... so don't flame me if it sounds arrogant - have tried to phrase it carefully before.

The fair thing would be to invite bids for the vacancy in div 3. With the best will in the world, however, the bid with the 50,000 seater stadium, state of the art training facilities and likelihood of 2nd largest support in the country would win hands down over anything Spartans or Cove etc could muster.

If I was running a non-league club I wouldn't waste my time or money bidding against that.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Will try to keep it brief... so don't flame me if it sounds arrogant - have tried to phrase it carefully before.

The fair thing would be to invite bids for the vacancy in div 3. With the best will in the world, however, the bid with the 50,000 seater stadium, state of the art training facilities and likelihood of 2nd largest support in the country would win hands down over anything Spartans or Cove etc could muster.

If I was running a non-league club I wouldn't waste my time or money bidding against that.
		
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So you are going to bid then as opposed to try an bully?

A new avenue for you then?


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## smange (Jun 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Your faith in what?

There's nothing groundbreaking about this,the Huns should be in Division 3 at best and as a Newco it puzzles me why they are seemingly by-passing the likes of Spartans and Cove etc.
		
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My faith in my club Dodger

As long as I know they are standing up to the bullies and not bending over backwards for the sake of a few shillings. Theres nothing I can do about other clubs but I and many other Pars fans have let the club know how we feel and it seems they have listened. 

I dont need to hang my head in shame as a supporter of a club who has sold their fans out


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			So you are going to bid then as opposed to try an bully?

A new avenue for you then?
		
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No idea what they'll do. As I've also stated Charles Green doesn't give two hoots about the long term future of Scottish football or Rangers. Sooner he gets them in the SPL and makes his profit the sooner he cuts and runs.

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but as far as I can tell it's the SPL clubs doing the bullying. Their sense of "sporting integrity" only goes so far, it would appear, and they're trying to limit their losses.


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## chris661 (Jun 29, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Will try to keep it brief... so don't flame me if it sounds arrogant - have tried to phrase it carefully before.

The fair thing would be to invite bids for the vacancy in div 3. With the best will in the world, however, the bid with the 50,000 seater stadium, state of the art training facilities and likelihood of 2nd largest support in the country would win hands down over anything Spartans or Cove etc could muster.

If I was running a non-league club I wouldn't waste my time or money bidding against that.
		
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The stadium is falling to bits semmingly it just scraped through the safety cert last year and needs something like Â£4m spent on it. I would imagine the training ground will be getting the old heave ho and will be soon getting hawked around the place as the second largest support won't buy season tickets. Speaking of which how many are going to go on the seaside mystery tour after three months in the middle of November to places like Arbroath etc especially if the team start to struggle.

Seen a thing on interwebs that thanks to a monumental cock up from duff & duffer even though sevco are paying the wages they can still all leave for nowt if they get a better offer :rofl:


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			No idea what they'll do. As I've also stated Charles Green doesn't give two hoots about the long term future of Scottish football or Rangers. Sooner he gets them in the SPL and makes his profit the sooner he cuts and runs.

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but as far as I can tell it's the SPL clubs doing the bullying. Their sense of "sporting integrity" only goes so far, it would appear, and they're trying to limit their losses.
		
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There we go....... unbelievable,nah,in fact it's not.Sporting integrity???Reallly???????!!!!!:mmm:

No wonder so many want the bears deed.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

chris661 said:



			the second largest support won't buy season tickets.
		
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Stuck between a rock and a hard place - do you support the current owner even though he's a wrong 'un? I don't know. Fortunately I gave up my season ticket years ago so don't have that dilemma.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			There we go....... unbelievable,nah,in fact it's not.Sporting integrity???Reallly???????!!!!!:mmm:

No wonder so many want the bears deed.
		
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Not sure I follow you?


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## chris661 (Jun 29, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Stuck between a rock and a hard place - do you support the current owner even though he's a wrong 'un? I don't know. Fortunately I gave up my season ticket years ago so don't have that dilemma.
		
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It's not really you know. If the support won't buy season tickets the club WILL fold again, it is that simple.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not sure I follow you?
		
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As I said,there we go.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

chris661 said:



			It's not really you know. If the support won't buy season tickets the club WILL fold again, it is that simple.
		
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Yip, I reckon so.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 29, 2012)

If they do not stop fafffing about it will be the end of newco as well.
I think Green has totally misjudged the situation. 
His money must be running out fast now. I would imagine this is costing around Â£250,000 a week.


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## thecraw (Jun 29, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Yes, I read the statement. Probably get similar results if you canvas any club's fans ( apart from the newco of course ). It's good to see some clubs are listening to the fans.
I do think there will be a huge backlash from the fans of the "diddy" teams as we're known by the OF.
		
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I think your "diddy" team is the only one who's still in bed with the team formerly known as Rangers!


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## Iaing (Jun 29, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			If they do not stop fafffing about it will be the end of newco as well.
I think Green has totally misjudged the situation. 
His money must be running out fast now. I would imagine this is costing around Â£250,000 a week.
		
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Just stop and think a minute. Was this his intention all along?
He has pissed the fans off.
He has pissed the media off.
He has pissed most of Scottish football off.
And most of all he has pissed off the players, who he should have been mollycoddling.
How can anyone not see what his game is?

An asset stripper is what Mr. Green is, and will make a lot of money out of it.


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## Iaing (Jun 29, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I think your "diddy" team is the only one who's still in bed with the team formerly known as Rangers!
		
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Why do you think I've changed my avatar?


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## thecraw (Jun 29, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Why do you think I've changed my avatar?
		
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I thought it was because Eastwood is under water with all the rain!


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			As I said,there we go.
		
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Nope, not got a clue what you're havering about.

Bored now.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Nope, not got a clue what you're havering about.

Bored now.
		
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Good,personally I,along with 90% of Scottish fitbaw fans,couldny give a flying feck if you are bored.

Ironic how one of the huns songs was 'no-one likes us we don't care'.........couldny be further from the truth now eh??


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## Iaing (Jun 30, 2012)

Celtic have been very quiet in all this. I would imagine they're quite happy that the "diddy" teams are blocking the newco's application to the SPL. But as they want the newco in the SPL asap, I'd say they're the instigators of the first division nonsense.
Yes, the Celtic fans will be up in arms, but with the prospect of a really weak newco being back in the SPL within a year, they will be like Pavlov's dogs, salivating over the chance of humping the weakened newco.


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## thecraw (Jun 30, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Celtic have been very quiet in all this. I would imagine they're quite happy that the "diddy" teams are blocking the newco's application to the SPL. But as they want the newco in the SPL asap, I'd say they're the instigators of the first division nonsense.
Yes, the Celtic fans will be up in arms, but with the prospect of a really weak newco being back in the SPL within a year, they will be like Pavlov's dogs, salivating over the chance of humping the weakened newco.
		
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Celtic are very very quiet but you can bet your last $$$ that like a duck they with be paddling like fook beneath the water. Celtic will be the biggest losers in this whole situation whether they're fans wish to admit it or not.


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## Farneyman (Jun 30, 2012)

Missed this when it was on tv a few weeks back and caught it on YouTube last night. Worth a wee watch. Gives a good background to the whole thing up until CG takes over. The running of Murrays business empire for one...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=80m7MV6xp-w

Apologies if this link was posted somewhere earlier in th thread.


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## StuartD (Jun 30, 2012)

Dodger said:



			There we go....... unbelievable,nah,in fact it's not.Sporting integrity???Reallly???????!!!!!:mmm:

No wonder so many want the bears deed.
		
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Calm doom man. He only used the term sporting integrity in retaliation to it being battered out by Spl chairmen in their statements and thats why it was in quotes   If it was of paramount importance we would be going straight to sfl3 cap in hand, which fairwayDodger has also stated what should happen, and this propasal to Sfl to let us into sfl1 would not be on the table


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 30, 2012)

It is quite an eye opener that all of my Rangers friends and many on here WANT to start again in Div 3.
They seem to be applying more sporting integrity than many others.


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## Dodger (Jun 30, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It is quite an eye opener that all of my Rangers friends and many on here WANT to start again in Div 3.
They seem to be applying more sporting integrity than many others.
		
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It isn't integrity,it's desperation knowing the situation they are in.


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## Revolt (Jun 30, 2012)

Dodger said:



			It isn't integrity,it's desperation knowing the situation they are in.
		
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mince. every other team wants us punished but only enough so that they can still take the money we generate for em ?! put us in div 3 and see how long all the diddy teams last then  One of the conditions of div1 was that rangers wave their right to appeal future punishments..............?!?! sporting integrity from the spl give me peace liewells pulling the strings in there to give his team and 20 man squad all on 30k a week the champions league income for the forecoming seasons  "were gonna send you down but only for a small time so you can come back and save the rest of the clubs." If i were green id tell the sfa to shove it up there poopshoots and apply to div3


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## smange (Jun 30, 2012)

Revolt said:



			mince. every other team wants us punished but only enough so that they can still take the money we generate for em ?! put us in div 3 and see how long all the diddy teams last then  One of the conditions of div1 was that rangers wave their right to appeal future punishments..............?!?! sporting integrity from the spl give me peace liewells pulling the strings in there to give his team and 20 man squad all on 30k a week the champions league income for the forecoming seasons  "were gonna send you down but only for a small time so you can come back and save the rest of the clubs." If i were green id tell the sfa to shove it up there poopshoots and apply to div3 

Click to expand...

Typical Rangers arrogance shines through again, also your starting to sound as paranoid as your ugly sisters across the city.

Youve cheated for years and youve went bust. You no longer exist as the football club you once were. You should start at the bottom as every new club would have to.

Us diddy teams as you like to call us will survive well enough without your money that you like to think you bring into us but before making statements like that why not look at the facts first.

Dunfermline have had bigger crowds in recent seasons in the first division against Falkirk and Raith Rovers than we have had when your massive big world famous club came to visit East End Park.

Its attitudes like yours that has most Scottish football fans revelling in your demise.


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## chris661 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well said Stevie.

Although it seems that there was every right to be paranoid now, from ALL the clubs.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 30, 2012)

It is a total myth this big travelling support that Old Rangers had.
Perhaps 25 years ago but in recent years the would not even put an extra 1,000 on a Paisley gate.
Take that away from all the local youngster who over the years  may have supported St Mirren only to follow the 'big successful cheating team' down the road.


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## Dodger (Jun 30, 2012)

Never has a statement summed up the mood within Scottish Football more perfectly than this.............

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/

Well done to all those connected with this statement from the Bully Wee.


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## Revolt (Jun 30, 2012)

smange said:



			Typical Rangers arrogance shines through again, also your starting to sound as paranoid as your ugly sisters across the city.

Youve cheated for years and youve went bust. You no longer exist as the football club you once were. You should start at the bottom as every new club would have to.

Us diddy teams as you like to call us will survive well enough without your money that you like to think you bring into us but before making statements like that why not look at the facts first.

Dunfermline have had bigger crowds in recent seasons in the first division against Falkirk and Raith Rovers than we have had when your massive big world famous club came to visit East End Park.

Its attitudes like yours that has most Scottish football fans revelling in your demise.
		
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We cheated? we have been found guilty of NOTHING. Absolutely FK all..... yeah the old co went bust. and im actually agreeing with you that they should punish the new co by sending them to div 3.... but thats not what they want to do. they want to send us to div1 so that they punish us but we still keep the spl afloat when we come back up. Id be all for div3 and so would the vast majority of rangers fans.


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## chris661 (Jun 30, 2012)

Revolt said:



			We cheated? we have been found guilty of NOTHING.
		
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Doesn't mean that oldco never cheated though......


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## Revolt (Jun 30, 2012)

thats exactly what it means. innocent until proven guilty. you cannot go around punishing people before a conclusion has been reached... would you be happy if you were hung for a murder before youd even been found guilty of it ? =]


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## DelB (Jun 30, 2012)

Revolt; said:
			
		


			.....when we come back up.
		
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Love your optimism.


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## thecraw (Jun 30, 2012)

Revolt said:



			We cheated? we have been found guilty of NOTHING. Absolutely FK all..... yeah the old co went bust. and im actually agreeing with you that they should punish the new co by sending them to div 3.... but thats not what they want to do. they want to send us to div1 so that they punish us but we still keep the spl afloat when we come back up. Id be all for div3 and so would the vast majority of rangers fans.
		
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Brilliant arrogance from a deluded Rangers fan who thinks Scottish Football will fall apart without the travelling Orcs!




:rofl:


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## Revolt (Jun 30, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18564685

You think other clubs arent in the same position just because they are not being public about it ?

why do you think all the clubs have came out and said... more or less... "we will vote no to rangers in the spl but we are begggggging all our fans to come and buy season tickets"


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## DelB (Jun 30, 2012)

Revolt said:



			..... but we are begggggging all our fans to come and buy season tickets"
		
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Fans have, until recently, refused to purchase season tickets until their clubs went public on how they would vote come 4th July. Now that those clubs have made their thoughts known, they are asking their supporters to go ahead and purchase their season books.


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## NWJocko (Jun 30, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Never has a statement summed up the mood within Scottish Football more perfectly than this.............

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/06/30/4134/

Well done to all those connected with this statement from the Bully Wee.
		
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Couldn't agree more.  A very rational, sensible view of things.

What I don't understand is people talking about rangers coming up in 1 year "saving" clubs financially. 

I'm an Aberdeen fan, we are deep in debt as it is after all these years with rangers in the top league. It isnot as if rangers keep all other clubs in the black just by their presence in the league.

As has been pointed out, their away support has dwindled massively in recent years anyway.


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## chris661 (Jun 30, 2012)

Revolt said:



			thats exactly what it means. innocent until proven guilty. you cannot go around punishing people before a conclusion has been reached... would you be happy if you were hung for a murder before youd even been found guilty of it ? =]
		
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So why have the SFA said they believe there was a case to answer with regards to contracts with extra payments then which is in direct contravention of the rules


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## Iaing (Jun 30, 2012)

Revolt said:



			We cheated? we have been found guilty of NOTHING. Absolutely FK all..... yeah the old co went bust. and im actually agreeing with you that they should punish the new co by sending them to div 3.... but thats not what they want to do. they want to send us to div1 so that they punish us but we still keep the spl afloat when we come back up. Id be all for div3 and so would the vast majority of rangers fans.
		
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You don't get it.
I agree that the newco haven't done anything wrong. But...
They're not being "sent" anywhere. To be sent somewhere, you've got to be somewhere to start with. And the newco don't exist (as yet) as far as the structure of Scottish football is concerned.


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## Val (Jun 30, 2012)

Iaing said:



			You don't get it.
I agree that the newco haven't done anything wrong. But...
They're not being "sent" anywhere. To be sent somewhere, you've got to be somewhere to start with. And the newco don't exist (as yet) as far as the structure of Scottish football is concerned.
		
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:clap:

:thup:


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## StuartD (Jul 1, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			Couldn't agree more.  A very rational, sensible view of things.

What I don't understand is people talking about rangers coming up in 1 year "saving" clubs financially. 

I'm an Aberdeen fan, we are deep in debt as it is after all these years with rangers in the top league. It isnot as if rangers keep all other clubs in the black just by their presence in the league.

As has been pointed out, their away support has dwindled massively in recent years anyway.
		
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Without rangers, or Celtic for that matter, there is a big risk of sky terminatting the tv contract. The tv money is what is keeping clubs afloat. Sky have an option to terminate the contract if either of the old firm are not involved. This was added when there was talk of the old firm leaving Scottish football. The mail carried a story ages ago that sky would tolerate Rfc being away for a season. Now suddenly we have this sfl1 option on the table although I would agree that rfc would struggle to get out of sfl1

As for the dwindling away support. Most clubs still send their tickets direct to rfc to sell. All those tickets are allocated to rfc season ticket holders at the start of the season and payment taken well in advance of the game. Therefore if you see any empty seats they have been paid for. Celtic operate in exactly the same way. As for not putting much extra on the gate may I suggest it's your own fans not turning up. As you can no longer fleece just the old firm fans buy charging them alone extra, rules were changed so that you must charge same price for similar stands. Since the home fans are now also having to pay up to Â£6 extra I have noticed a huge decline in home support when I have been at games

Also although the gate may not be that much bigger clubs are still making more money from the increased admission prices. My mate(st j fan) is able to take him and his kid to an away game  for Â£34 quid(Â£22 and Â£12) for an old firm fan it costs at least Â£45  (Â£28 and Â£17) for the same ground. Some grounds it was more as junior prices were not made available. 

I am sure that motherwell sent information out to their fans showing that revenues from each of the old firm were comparable with the other 9 clubs put together


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## chris661 (Jul 1, 2012)

Without sevco or Celtic or sky money Scottish football WILL survive, clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly but the will carry on.


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## Val (Jul 1, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Without sevco or Celtic or sky money Scottish football WILL survive, clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly but the will carry on.
		
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Absoluetly, if clubs are looking at financial meltdown because Rangers won't be there then they need to concern themselves with the structure of their business rather than the structure if Scottish football.


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## thecraw (Jul 1, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Without rangers, or Celtic for that matter, there is a big risk of sky terminatting the tv contract. The tv money is what is keeping clubs afloat. Sky have an option to terminate the contract if either of the old firm are not involved. This was added when there was talk of the old firm leaving Scottish football. The mail carried a story ages ago that sky would tolerate Rfc being away for a season. Now suddenly we have this sfl1 option on the table although I would agree that rfc would struggle to get out of sfl1

As for the dwindling away support. Most clubs still send their tickets direct to rfc to sell. All those tickets are allocated to rfc season ticket holders at the start of the season and payment taken well in advance of the game. Therefore if you see any empty seats they have been paid for. Celtic operate in exactly the same way. As for not putting much extra on the gate may I suggest it's your own fans not turning up. As you can no longer fleece just the old firm fans buy charging them alone extra, rules were changed so that you must charge same price for similar stands. Since the home fans are now also having to pay up to Â£6 extra I have noticed a huge decline in home support when I have been at games

Also although the gate may not be that much bigger clubs are still making more money from the increased admission prices. My mate(st j fan) is able to take him and his kid to an away game  for Â£34 quid(Â£22 and Â£12) for an old firm fan it costs at least Â£45  (Â£28 and Â£17) for the same ground. Some grounds it was more as junior prices were not made available. 

I am sure that motherwell sent information out to their fans showing that revenues from each of the old firm were comparable with the other 9 clubs put together
		
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Sky TV and ESPN both shafted the SPL. The only teams that will be shafted is the Old Farm who demand the lions share of all revenue. 

It'll actually allow the SPL teams to create a licence to broadcast their own TV highlights/live games. Creating a SPL TV channel is not as daft as it seems and it will generate more than the scraps that Murdoch and ESPN currently throw our way.

Great time for Scottish Football to give the bed sheets a big shake and get rid of the crap and lies the Old Farm have fed and bullied clubs for years with.


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## Val (Jul 1, 2012)

thecraw said:



			The only teams that will be shafted is the Old Farm who demand the lions share of all the revenue .
		
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Wrong again.

Let's get this fact 100% spot on, there is no longer any old firm, there is Celtic.

Go check your facts on tv revenue split, what % do you think favours Celtic and the now defunct team from Govan?


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## StuartD (Jul 1, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Without sevco or Celtic or sky money Scottish football WILL survive, clubs will have to cut their cloth accordingly but the will carry on.
		
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I have no doubt it can. But too many clubs are in a position right now where they are dependant on the income. Clubs will try to cut there cloth and sell a few players but in today's world what happens if these players refuse to go. Clubs need to be in a position where they will be ok but it will not happen overnight. It may take a couple of years to get them into a position where they will be ok. Trouble is if the money keeps coming in they don't look that far ahead. Can we blame the clubs? If our wages suddenly stopped how long would we all survive? I reckon I would be ok for 1 year before I would need to take drastic action. Therefore I vote for the sfl1 plan


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## StuartD (Jul 1, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Sky TV and ESPN both shafted the SPL. The only teams that will be shafted is the Old Farm who demand the lions share of all revenue. 

It'll actually allow the SPL teams to create a licence to broadcast their own TV highlights/live games. Creating a SPL TV channel is not as daft as it seems and it will generate more than the scraps that Murdoch and ESPN currently throw our way.

Great time for Scottish Football to give the bed sheets a big shake and get rid of the crap and lies the Old Farm have fed and bullied clubs for years with.
		
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Em the vast proportion of tv revenue is divided equally among the clubs. It's the pot allocated as prize money that can give you more. If it was so unfair why did all clubs vote for it?

As for this Spl tv, you do know that is was rejected by the 9 Spl clubs before. It was proposed by Celtic, Aberdeen and rangers when it was rumoured sitanta were in difficulties. Start up costs were deemed to accede by the other 9 so the sitanta deal was voted through and 6 months later they were gone


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## smange (Jul 1, 2012)

Revolt said:



*We cheated? we have been found guilty of NOTHING. Absolutely FK all..... *yeah the old co went bust. and im actually agreeing with you that they should punish the new co by sending them to div 3.... but thats not what they want to do. they want to send us to div1 so that they punish us but we still keep the spl afloat when we come back up. Id be all for div3 and so would the vast majority of rangers fans.
		
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Correct me if im wrong but havent the old Rangers been found guilty of non payment of taxes? Tax money that should have been paid to HMRC but was instead spent on buying and maintaining a strong team. Thats cheating of the highest order and if your denying that then you really shouldnt be taking part in this discussion which on the whole has been pretty much honest and sensible.

My club Dunfermline apparently paid Â£2 million in tax last season, I think had we spent that money on the team we would have comfortably stayed in the SPL last season and im sure if that had happened and then it came out you would have accused us of being cheats.

Take your blue tinted glasses off mate and look at the bigger picture.


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## thecraw (Jul 1, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Em the vast proportion of tv revenue is divided equally among the clubs. It's the pot allocated as prize money that can give you more. If it was so unfair why did all clubs vote for it?

As for this Spl tv, you do know that is was rejected by the 9 Spl clubs before. It was proposed by Celtic, Aberdeen and rangers when it was rumoured sitanta were in difficulties. Start up costs were deemed to accede by the other 9 so the sitanta deal was voted through and 6 months later they were gone
		
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It wasn't SPL TV that was rejected it was Rangers Celtic and Aberdeen wishing to remain with a more secure and longer Sky TV deal.


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## thecraw (Jul 1, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Wrong again.

Let's get this fact 100% spot on, there is no longer any old firm, there is Celtic.

Go check your facts on tv revenue split, what % do you think favours Celtic and the now defunct team from Govan?
		
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I mentioned nothing about the Sky money, I did word it wrongly though. I was getting at the 70% or near enough that the top two demanded every year, ie Rangers and Celtic and left the scraps for the rest.

All totally wrong and typical bullying that the SPL teams have endured for years.

:ears:


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2012)

What I have never understood is why the diddy clubs complain re the share of TV cash.

The majority of the games are showing Celtic or Rangers so tell me why should Inverness CT get the same share as those teams that are shown say 20 times a season compared to those featured 5 times a year?

Am I missing something?  Genuine question guys.


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## Val (Jul 1, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I mentioned nothing about the Sky money, I did word it wrongly though. I was getting at the 70% or near enough that the top two demanded every year, ie Rangers and Celtic and left the scraps for the rest.

All totally wrong and typical bullying that the SPL teams have endured for years.

:ears:
		
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So this 70% you talk of if it not sky money what is it?

And before you respond go get some accurate fact rather than hearsay


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## Val (Jul 1, 2012)

Dodger said:



			What I have never understood is why the diddy clubs complain re the share of TV cash.

The majority of the games are showing Celtic or Rangers so tell me why should Inverness CT get the same share as those teams that are shown say 20 times a season compared to those featured 5 times a year?

Am I missing something?  Genuine question guys.
		
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Your not,  if anything Celtic and Rangers got hard done by.

48% equal split the remainder based on league position and with a fair split.


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Your not,  if anything Celtic and Rangers got hard done by.

48% equal split the remainder based on league position and with a fair split.
		
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So what/where is the issue??

Enlighten me someone,please?


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## Val (Jul 1, 2012)

Dodger said:



			So what/where is the issue??

Enlighten me someone,please?
		
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Best ask thecraw, he seems to ken better.


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## wrighty1874 (Jul 1, 2012)

Where have all the badge kissers gone?


chris661 said:



			Stolen from twitter. 

 In for training: Alexander, Gallacher, Broadfoot, Perry, Hutton, Cole, K Naismith, Hegarty, Wallace, McCulloch, Mitchell, Hemmings

Has the makings of a good team :mmm:
		
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## Val (Jul 1, 2012)

wrighty1874 said:



			Where have all the badge kissers gone?
		
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They've done that thing the don't do, walking away


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## NWJocko (Jul 1, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Without rangers, or Celtic for that matter, there is a big risk of sky terminatting the tv contract. The tv money is what is keeping clubs afloat. Sky have an option to terminate the contract if either of the old firm are not involved. This was added when there was talk of the old firm leaving Scottish football. The mail carried a story ages ago that sky would tolerate Rfc being away for a season. Now suddenly we have this sfl1 option on the table although I would agree that rfc would struggle to get out of sfl1

As for the dwindling away support. Most clubs still send their tickets direct to rfc to sell. All those tickets are allocated to rfc season ticket holders at the start of the season and payment taken well in advance of the game. Therefore if you see any empty seats they have been paid for. Celtic operate in exactly the same way. As for not putting much extra on the gate may I suggest it's your own fans not turning up. As you can no longer fleece just the old firm fans buy charging them alone extra, rules were changed so that you must charge same price for similar stands. Since the home fans are now also having to pay up to Â£6 extra I have noticed a huge decline in home support when I have been at games

Also although the gate may not be that much bigger clubs are still making more money from the increased admission prices. My mate(st j fan) is able to take him and his kid to an away game  for Â£34 quid(Â£22 and Â£12) for an old firm fan it costs at least Â£45  (Â£28 and Â£17) for the same ground. Some grounds it was more as junior prices were not made available. 

I am sure that motherwell sent information out to their fans showing that revenues from each of the old firm were comparable with the other 9 clubs put together
		
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Yep, crowds are dwindling across the board, many reasons for that (economic, lack of competitiveness etc etc).

Do you really think the appropriate thing to do is to keep these clubs afloat by pushing rangers back into the spl ASAP? Or, as Valentino suggests, should these clubs actually look at their operating model to provide a sustainable business? Rangers not being in the league, whilst costing money perhaps, would be a good thing in my view do clubs aren't reliant on 3 paydays from each of the old firm clubs.

That, plus increased (my assumption) competitiveness for Europe etc should see clubs in a far healthier position, again assuming that they aren't run recklessly as rangers have been.

The rangers fans really do have my sympathy, I would hate this to be my club, but they still have a very arrogant way about them. Rangers were mince in the early 80's and Scottish football wasn't on its arse, 2 clubs reached European finals. Obviously that isn't going to happen again.

As for away ticket prices Aberdeen were (when I was goin) in cat A for all teams with rangers and Celtic so I have no sympathy I'm afraid. I paid Â£32 at tunecastle 4 days after paying Â£21 to watch Newcastle v Barcelona in the champions league!!


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## chris661 (Jul 1, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			Yep, crowds are dwindling across the board, many reasons for that (economic, lack of competitiveness etc etc).

Do you really think the appropriate thing to do is to keep these clubs afloat by pushing rangers back into the spl ASAP? Or, as Valentino suggests, should these clubs actually look at their operating model to provide a sustainable business? Rangers not being in the league, whilst costing money perhaps, would be a good thing in my view do clubs aren't reliant on 3 paydays from each of the old firm clubs.

That, plus increased (my assumption) competitiveness for Europe etc should see clubs in a far healthier position, again assuming that they aren't run recklessly as rangers have been.

The rangers fans really do have my sympathy, I would hate this to be my club, but they still have a very arrogant way about them. Rangers were mince in the early 80's and Scottish football wasn't on its arse, 2 clubs reached European finals. Obviously that isn't going to happen again.

As for away ticket prices Aberdeen were (when I was goin) in cat A for all teams with rangers and Celtic so I have no sympathy I'm afraid. I paid Â£32 at tunecastle 4 days after paying Â£21 to watch Newcastle v Barcelona in the champions league!!
		
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Exactly! If Motherwell who are insistent they will lose Â£900,000 by Sevco going to the 3rd division actually made a claim for the second place that IMO is rightfully theirs they would actually be up money. 

If after all of this upheaval it means that some of the 40 clubs have to go P/T then, unfortunately, so be it. It means that there is an even bigger incentive to actually do well and no just "exist" even start using youth players from Scotland and not just relying on crap overrated foreign imports.


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## munro007 (Jul 1, 2012)

Foreign players should be capped like they used to be.


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## StuartD (Jul 1, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			Do you really think the appropriate thing to do is to keep these clubs afloat by pushing rangers back into the spl ASAP? Or, as Valentino suggests, should these clubs actually look at their operating model to provide a sustainable business? Rangers not being in the league, whilst costing money perhaps, would be a good thing in my view do clubs aren't reliant on 3 paydays from each of the old firm clubs.
		
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Probably not. In an ideal world Rangers would be in div3 and everything would be ok with other clubs. If they can get past the short term losses, cut here cloth etc then Scottish football could be the better for it. If tv revenues are lost maybe the Sfa could help in the short term but there is not much cash their either. I have had to watch my club being driven deliberately into administration by a con man trying to make a quick buck.  Although many are rejoicing I'll admit it has been bloody hard to watch. I would hate to see any other club and their fans suffer in the fallout of this mans actions.


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Probably not. In an ideal world Rangers would be in div3 and everything would be ok with other clubs. If they can get past the short term losses, cut here cloth etc then Scottish football could be the better for it. If tv revenues are lost maybe the Sfa could help in the short term but there is not much cash their either. I have had to watch my club being driven deliberately into administration by a con man trying to make a quick buck.  Although many are rejoicing I'll admit it has been bloody hard to watch. I would hate to see any other club and their fans suffer in the fallout of this mans actions.
		
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Fancy calling Murray a Conman....some fans are so ungrateful for what he did for them.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 2, 2012)

48 hours to decision time.
What's your best guess?

I think it will be Div1 with a 20 point penalty + Football debts to other SPL clubs to be repaid by the start of the season.
Club 12 ........Dundee. [sadly, as Dunfermilne have the moral rights]


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## chris661 (Jul 2, 2012)

I think it is pretty immaterial as I dont think sevco will be able to fulfil fixtures for next year.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 2, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Probably not. In an ideal world Rangers would be in div3 and everything would be ok with other clubs..
		
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In an ideal world the NEW club would apply to enter Div 3 as all NEW clubs do , the would be assessed on the same grounds & criteria as all other NEW clubs should be .. 
IN fairness the newco bid should surpass anything the others have to offer . shouldnt they ? 
If this club wants to be NEW it should sever all ties with the OLD club , if you dont want the old clubs baggage you also can not benifit in who you may have been once upon a time ...
I think in all fairness most proper Rangers fans see & accept this .. 
The ground work for the new club does seem pretty unstable even still tho , they should have accepted this was the way it going to be put in good base for the future ..


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## USER1999 (Jul 2, 2012)

Do all (and I do mean all) their past trophies get sold off for scrap?

Surely as long as these are around, the beast won't die?

I assume they won't go to the new club, as that would be daft.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 2, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Do all (and I do mean all) their past trophies get sold off for scrap?

Surely as long as these are around, the beast won't die?

I assume they won't go to the new club, as that would be daft.
		
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Cant change history of any sort , all that can be done is , accept it(as much as possibe) try (not easy) & leave it in the dark past where it belongs ..  
Its people recounting history that causes the problems not the history itself , how much  OK  stuff happening today will be seen as a horrible history in 100 years time ?? it seems ok now but i might be construed as terrible in the future


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## Dodger (Jul 2, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Do all (and I do mean all) their past trophies get sold off for scrap?

Surely as long as these are around, the beast won't die?

I assume they won't go to the new club, as that would be daft.
		
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Trophies won,tainted by cheating or not,are not their property,regardless of who wins what trophies remain the property of SFA/SFL etc etc.


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## chris661 (Jul 2, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Cant change history of any sort , all that can be done is , accept it(as much as possibe) try (not easy) & leave it in the dark past where it belongs ..  
Its people recounting history that causes the problems not the history itself , how much  OK  stuff happening today will be seen as a horrible history in 100 years time ?? it seems ok now but i might be construed as terrible in the future
		
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## bladeplayer (Jul 2, 2012)

chris661 said:








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Was in reply to murphs , what happens the trophys & the beast not dying .. only people can keep the beast alive by draging up history .. 
We cant change it so we may just accept it & leave it in the past,


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 2, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Cant change history of any sort , all that can be done is , accept it(as much as possibe) try (not easy) & leave it in the dark past where it belongs ..  
Its people recounting history that causes the problems not the history itself , how much  OK  stuff happening today will be seen as a horrible history in 100 years time ?? it seems ok now but i might be construed as terrible in the future
		
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Well said Blade man.
I like the Bill Clinton campaign song 'Don't stop thinking about tomorrow'.
Sadly far too many of us live our lives in the past.

BTW I heard that Newco will not be allowed into the English lower leagues as Superpally said 'They won't do Woking away.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 2, 2012)

Newco company song.
'Those days are past now and in the past they must remain
But we will arise now and be honourable again'.


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## chris661 (Jul 2, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Was in reply to murphs , what happens the trophys & the beast not dying .. only people can keep the beast alive by draging up history .. 
We cant change it so we may just accept it & leave it in the past,
		
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The beast is dead though and why would that make any difference to the trophies that they have won in the past?

And if you think that this sectarianism and bigotry is contained to football, and one or two clubs in particular, well frankly you are way way wide of the mark


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 2, 2012)

Very true Chris but the Old Firm went out of their way to promote it for fiscal gain over the last 150 years.


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## chris661 (Jul 2, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Very true Chris but the Old Firm went out of their way to promote it for fiscal gain over the last 150 years.
		
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I disagree. Yes Celtic has its element of idiots but they never had a policy of not letting protestants work there.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 2, 2012)

chris661 said:



			The beast is dead though and why would that make any difference to the trophies that they have won in the past?

And if you think that this sectarianism and bigotry is contained to football, and one or two clubs in particular, well frankly you are way way wide of the mark
		
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Thats what i was trying to say mate , the past histories are past , doesnt mater what happens the trophys , it wont change anything ..

Wouldnt for a second think it was contained to both clubs or only football for that matter ,  .. What i am saying is until there is a line drawn under the past , there can never be a proper future .. that goes for life in general ,


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## chris661 (Jul 2, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Thats what i was trying to say mate , the past histories are past , doesnt mater what happens the trophys , it wont change anything ..

Wouldnt for a second think it was contained to both clubs or only football for that matter ,  .. What i am saying is until there is a line drawn under the past , there can never be a proper future .. that goes for life in general ,
		
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Will never happen the bigotry runs too deep.


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## Bomber69 (Jul 2, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Will never happen the bigotry runs too deep.
		
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On both sides.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 2, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Will never happen the bigotry runs too deep.
		
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I agree i quiet possibly never will , 

If i asked you 5 years ago when will Martin Mcguinness or any ex IRA  shake hands with the Queen ? what would the answer be ? 

 I know My ans woulda been " when hell freezes over".. 

Change is always possible if its wanted enough ..

I have realy enjoyed most posts on this thread , good solid discussion , got bit heated at times  , both sides defending their beliefs etc , but the opinions of the people on both sides that tried to be constructive were respected. even where there wasnt agreement ,  the stirrers were told to go take a hike ,
Now only if life were like that eh ? 

Apologies if i have taken thread a bit sideways ..


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## chris661 (Jul 2, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			On both sides.
		
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Agreed and I never said any different


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## smange (Jul 2, 2012)

All these Rangers people seem to be going a bit senile these days and forgetting what they have argued for in the past to now want something else

Walter Smith is hilarious

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footba...accept-newco-into-their-ranks-86908-23903342/

a snippet:

Former Rangers manager Walter Smith has publicly voiced his fears for a Scottish game that gives every indication of being in meltdown.
â€œEveryone is going to start to have a fear now about the very future of Scottish football,â€ he said at the weekend.
â€œIf Rangers go to the Third Division â€“ or even the First and are not competitive â€“ itâ€™s going to affect the whole of Scottish football in a drastic way.â€

Yet back in October this was his thinking

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footba...irm-are-denied-move-elsewhere-86908-21751069/

snippet:

*"Scottish football can survive without the Old Firm first teams. It will mean other clubs haveachance to be successful.*
"When I say the Old Firm leaving to join an Atlantic League, I don't exclude other Scottish clubs from having that chance.
"The team that wins the SPL could step up and, possibly, represent Scotland in the Champions League. If Rangers and Celtic were playing in the Atlantic League and Aberdeen win the SPL, then I think there could be a play-off to get into the Atlantic League for the next season.
"Even under this scenario the Old Firm would still have a presence in Scotland .
"*Probably their teams would have to start in the lower divisions and work their way up. I fear for Scottish football if we don't change."
*
What an eejit:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 2, 2012)

Blade, I stopped halfway through a Queen/McGuiness post thinking it would provoke the wrong responses.

Well said, I have always said that their will be peace in NI when the mothers start teaching the kids to stop hating.
Looks like this is happening. Great news and I hope the prosperity of the area now starts to improve.


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## chris661 (Jul 2, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Blade, I stopped halfway through a Queen/McGuiness post thinking it would provoke the wrong responses.

Well said, I have always said that their will be peace in NI when the mothers start teaching the kids to stop hating.
Looks like this is happening. Great news and I hope the prosperity of the area now starts to improve.
		
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Well you wanna try living here* then, dont let the media fool you. The hatred is still alive and well.




*disclaimer I live in the republic but a mere stones throw from the border.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 3, 2012)

Whatever happens today I hope that newco will not be allowed to be called Rangers [or even The Rangers]


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## HughJars (Jul 3, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Wouldnt for a second think it was contained to both clubs or only football for that matter,
		
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While in Glasgow it's certainly not just contained within football, I can assure you that outside of the Weegie goldfish bowl, no-one, absolutely no-one gives a toss what either of these two clowns think, or what faux-religious background someone comes from.

My current boss is a Weegie, brought up to Aberdeen in primary school, and is a Hun. When moving here his father could not get through to his Weegiue mates that my boss would be going to the local school. "aye, but what school" they kept asking, unaware that such petty issues did not leak outside of Glasgow.

It really ios a non-issue elsewhere, much as both sides of the former Old Firm would like everyone to believe otherwise.


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## smange (Jul 3, 2012)

I hope this is just scaremongering again from the Daily Rangers but if any truth in this story it really is the end of Scottish football as a spectator sport for many fans I would guess.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/0...ibrox-newco-in-the-top-flight-86908-23903744/

Any club voting "Yes" after coming out and stating they would vote "No" should prepare itself for very low home crowds next season.


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## smange (Jul 3, 2012)

Great statement from Stranraer F.C on their website, summing up every decent football supporters feelings.

Full statement http://www.stranraerfc.org/

"We hold the stance that it is our place to act in the best long term interests of Stranraer FC and for Scottish Football as a whole and see no reason to breach the integrity of the SFL by filling a vacancy at any level other than at the lowest tier. The possibility of placing a NewCo at any other level breaches the sporting competition of our organisation and compromises the very structure of our game. There should not be a special case made for any club and we believe that the proper place for a phoenix club to restart life is at the lowest level. We believe it is right and proper than any club should have the right to apply for the resulting vacancy and we would then form a view on which club we would support for election to any vacancy based on the presentation case made by the applicants.

Irrespective of the size, stature, history and resources of the club filling the vacancy, the opportunity exists for that club to find their way back to their natural tier in the league structure in a fair and equitable manner while being encouraged to trade and exist successfully within the means at their disposal."

Well written and bang on the money:thup:


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			While in Glasgow it's certainly not just contained within football, I can assure you that outside of the Weegie goldfish bowl, no-one, absolutely no-one gives a toss what either of these two clowns think, or what faux-religious background someone comes from.

My current boss is a Weegie, brought up to Aberdeen in primary school, and is a Hun. When moving here his father could not get through to his Weegiue mates that my boss would be going to the local school. "aye, but what school" they kept asking, unaware that such petty issues did not leak outside of Glasgow.

It really ios a non-issue elsewhere, much as both sides of the former Old Firm would like everyone to believe otherwise.
		
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I disagree entirely having experienced it on many occasions outside of Glasgow.


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

It really doesn't matter Stevie, there will be no club playing football in the coming season from the south side of Glasgow.


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## USER1999 (Jul 3, 2012)

My point about the trophies is, if rangers are allowed to keep them, and show them in their museum (I assume they have one), then how is it a new club? And not an obvious continuation of the old one. If it is truly to start anew, the trophies need returning, and ideally put in a sfl museum.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			My point about the trophies is, if rangers are allowed to keep them, and show them in their museum (I assume they have one), then how is it a new club? And not an obvious continuation of the old one. If it is truly to start anew, the trophies need returning, and ideally put in a sfl museum.
		
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Why would they go to the SFL? Any trophies on show will not be the real ones so as such will be the property of the club but as you say they should not be displayed in Sevco's trophy cabinet as they do not have any wins to show off trophies for.

The trophies should be smelting down and the cash they get from Ramsdens should go into the Creditors pot!:rofl:


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## thecraw (Jul 3, 2012)

chris661 said:



			It really doesn't matter Stevie, there will be no club playing football in the coming season from the south side of Glasgow.
		
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What's happening to Queens Park?????

Have I missed something?


:ears:


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

thecraw said:



			What's happening to Queens Park?????

Have I missed something?


:ears:
		
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I said football


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## StuartD (Jul 3, 2012)

SFA wil not allow Newco into SPL say Stewart Regan.

We have been mucking around with SPL trying to sort out rules for Newco's, then the vote proposal. Now the SFA Cheif exec is back from holiday  he has taken it upon himself to make the decision. If this was the case could he have not said sooner and stopped all the mucking around. 

Division 3 and lets get on with it


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Division 3 and lets get on with it
		
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I think it has been left too late though. I read something saying that senior non playing figures at sevco were to prepare for at least a year out. I dont know how true (if at all) this is.


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## thecraw (Jul 3, 2012)

StuartD said:



			SFA wil not allow Newco into SPL say Stewart Regan.

We have been mucking around with SPL trying to sort out rules for Newco's, then the vote proposal. Now the SFA Cheif exec is back from holiday  he has taken it upon himself to make the decision. If this was the case could he have not said sooner and stopped all the mucking around. 

Division 3 and lets get on with it
		
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Or how about cheerio altogether?


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## StuartD (Jul 3, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Or how about cheerio altogether?
		
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Ok Ok maybe should not have put "division 3 and lets get on with it. Its quite clearly given the rangers haters another chance to have another go

The point i was trying to make is if this is the SFA stance, why was it not made clearer weeks ago. Then we could have already had a resolution to the SFL1 SFL3 or Death scenarios. Clubs that are currently in limbo would have had way forward in plenty of time for the new seaason


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Ok Ok maybe should not have put "division 3 and lets get on with it. Its quite clearly given the rangers haters another chance to have another go

The point i was trying to make is if this is the SFA stance, why was it not made clearer weeks ago. Then we could have already had a resolution to the SFL1 SFL3 or Death scenarios. Clubs that are currently in limbo would have had way forward in plenty of time for the new seaason
		
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Come on now Stuart,it's the SFA we are talking about.

They will make their minds up in their own good time and when they are ready.

Seems like people are forever stalling hoping that someone else makes decisions for them.

If I were in charge the decision would have been made long ago....


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## HughJars (Jul 3, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I disagree entirely having experienced it on many occasions outside of Glasgow.
		
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Never been to aberdeen then?


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## BoadieBroadus (Jul 3, 2012)

Yes the SFA, SPL and SFL were clearly all hoping that somehow the decision would be made for them, presumably through the avoidance of liquidation. When that became the reality they clearly had absolutely no idea what to do, so essentially went a roundabout way of getting the clubs to acquiesce to having the new club as high up the hierarchy as possible. The lack of decision making has been an embarassment, as is the continuination of Ogilvie in his hopelessly compromised position.

Regardless of the outcome, heads should be rolling all over the 3 governing bodies over the abject lack of any leadership or competence shown in the matter.


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			Never been to aberdeen then?
		
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Yes on many occasions why?


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

This is why Scottish football is dead. 

[video=youtube;Al64cnSZZH0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=Al64cnSZZH0[/video]

It will take an awful lot for it to recover, if it ever can


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## HughJars (Jul 3, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Yes on many occasions why?
		
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Becasue none of that **** bothers us up here.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			Becasue none of that **** bothers us up here.
		
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Really? Stupid me,I must have imagined the constant spouting of "Fenian B'''''rds" the 3 times I have been to Pittodrie.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

It's all going to come out soon just how corrupt fitba is in Scotland I am sure.

Folk at the top of the Governing bodies have fingers in The dead clubs pie and are trying desperately to salvage something.

The sport smells of an awful odour.


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			Becasue none of that **** bothers us up here.
		
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Eh? As Dodger says I must have imagined it then. 

So because you say it doesn't happen in Aberdeen it therefore doesn't happen at all outside of Glasgow. Ok then I like your scientific methods


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## smange (Jul 3, 2012)

And as if to prove just how blind the media and Sky in particular are to the rest of Scottish football they dont even know the name of the Dunfermline chairman as he turns up for the SFL meeting. 

Its John Yorkston you interview in this clip and not Jim Leishman.

http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,12606_7861826,00.html


Must add that Turnbull Hutton is my new hero (even though hes the wee team chairman) :clap:The man says it how it is:thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 3, 2012)

With you there Smange. He seems to be speaking for most of Scotland.


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## HughJars (Jul 3, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Eh? As Dodger says I must have imagined it then. 

So because you say it doesn't happen in Aberdeen it therefore doesn't happen at all outside of Glasgow. Ok then I like your scientific methods 

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You said you'd been in Aberdeen many times, yet you won't find that **** here at all, which was the point you tried making.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			You said you'd been in Aberdeen many times, yet you won't find that **** here at all, which was the point you tried making.
		
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In reality though,just like the rest of Scotland,you will and do find it.....in abundance unfortunately.


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## HughJars (Jul 3, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Really? Stupid me,I must have imagined the constant spouting of "Fenian B'''''rds" the 3 times I have been to Pittodrie.
		
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I'd be rather amazed if there was any "constant spouting" as that sort of behaviour will quickly be shouted down. 

You'd find "hun *******s" gets thrown at the Huns just as much if not more. 

You see, that is a football thing, Chris is on about bigotry being endemic throughout Scotland, yet it quite clearly isn't, no-one up hear gives a stuff about catholic schools, or non catholic schools, you just go to school.


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## HughJars (Jul 3, 2012)

Dodger said:



			In reality though,just like the rest of Scotland,you will and do find it.....in abundance unfortunately.
		
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No, you really don't.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			No, you really don't.
		
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Keep those fingers in your ears Shug lad.


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## HughJars (Jul 3, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Keep those fingers in your ears Shug lad.
		
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No-one cares, which is why we detest the former old firm equally. As an example, when I was in 4th year, many many years ago I admit, we had a French exchange teacher over, and she was asking the class if we were catholic or protestant, one lad said he was catholic, went round the room, most had no idea.

I thought for a while and came to the conclusion I was a catholic, becasue I was christened, and my parents had once upon a time went to church. I just thought going to church meant you were catholic, had no concept of "protestant", and this at 15 years old.

Means nothing up here. Obviously I am better informed now, I just think all religion is utter ****.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			No-one cares, which is why we detest the former old firm equally. As an example, when I was in 4th year, many many years ago I admit, we had a French exchange teacher over, and she was asking the class if we were catholic or protestant, one lad said he was catholic, went round the room, most had no idea.

I thought for a while and came to the conclusion I was a catholic, becasue I was christened, and my parents had once upon a time went to church. I just thought going to church meant you were catholic, had no concept of "protestant", and this at 15 years old.

Means nothing up here. Obviously I am better informed now, I just think all religion is utter ****.
		
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I am 100 % with you re religion but to say the problems do not exist outside of Glasgow is frankly laughable.

I used to think it was just the 2 teams that induldged in the religious crap until I started travelling away from home and I can 100% say that Tynecastle was as bad as Ibrox for religious abuse,Aberdeen a close 2nd with Perth being the least vile...as a Proddy I have to say I laughed and some of the accusations and still do.

It's a huge problem in the country and one which will take an age to make in roads into sadly.


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

HughJars said:



			You said you'd been in Aberdeen many times, yet you won't find that **** here at all, which was the point you tried making.
		
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No it wasnt, your broad sweeping statement said it was confined to Glasgow. I said it wasnt then you asked about Aberdeen. Get your facts straight before trying to twist my words.


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## DCB (Jul 3, 2012)

I can remember being asked why I had started a particular guy in a new job, after all, he had been seen in a Republic of Ireland top at the weekend.

Somewhere along the line, my East coast upbringing had allowed me to forget the most important question at an interview.... 'what school did you go to?'


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 3, 2012)

Glasgow area....definately.
The rest of Scotland......definately not.

Thankfully it is slowly sinking into the cesspit but there will always be a few 20 stone bald headed toothless diehards who will carry on the 'tradition'


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Glasgow area....definately.
The rest of Scotland......definately not.

Thankfully it is slowly sinking into the cesspit but there will always be a few 20 stone bald headed toothless diehards who will carry on the 'tradition'
		
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Ayrshire is rife for it. It is probably fair to say it is predominately a west coast thing but to say it is entirely confined to Glasgow is at best a mistruth.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Glasgow area....definately.
The rest of Scotland......definately not.

Thankfully it is slowly sinking into the cesspit but there will always be a few 20 stone bald headed toothless diehards who will carry on the 'tradition'
		
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Outwith football stadia the East is pretty much clear of problems,not so the West.....inside football stadia throughout the country it is rife...still.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 3, 2012)

Chris
I live in rural South Ayrshire. Our local pub has both sets of OF fans in when an OF game is on, never any bother in fact it is quite pally.
Mind you they don't go in wearing their shirts as it is quite a select area.
Not an issue here at all.


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## Iaing (Jul 3, 2012)

I live in urban East Ayrshire and there's always bother in the pubs and streets when an OF game's been on the telly. You can set your watch in anticipation of the 2 tones starting just after the game ends.


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Chris
I live in rural South Ayrshire. Our local pub has both sets of OF fans in when an OF game is on, never any bother in fact it is quite pally.
Mind you they don't go in wearing their shirts as it is *quite a select area.*
Not an issue here at all.
		
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I highlighted the relevant part there. Look up Kilwinning on wiki and have a look at the mother lodge part of the page. I remember being chased from a town in ayrshire after playing football for my school many years ago so don't tell me it isnt a problem.


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I live in urban East Ayrshire and there's always bother in the pubs and streets when an OF game's been on the telly. You can set your watch in anticipation of the 2 tones starting just after the game ends.
		
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We have a pub here called the wolfe tone and I can remember sitting in it watching an OF game in walks two fellas with rangers tops on, I thought to myself these two guys are going to get lynched with the fruitcakes in this place but the barman lamped a regular and told everybody that their money was as good as anybody's :rofl:


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## Yer Maw (Jul 3, 2012)

Sadly the bigotry does exist as a way of life in the West though that includes most of Central Scotland over to Falkirk.  The Est manages to keep it to the potted glory hunter Old Firm fans who travel from as far as Aberdeen every weekend. 
Sadly, the demise of Rangers may do more to quell this bigotry nonsense more than any government has in the last decade of lip service effort.  
Has the police service changed as it used to be the running joke about masonic handshakes to get in??


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## munro007 (Jul 3, 2012)

Yer Maw said:



			Sadly the bigotry does exist as a way of life in the West though that includes most of Central Scotland over to Falkirk.  The Est manages to keep it to the potted glory hunter Old Firm fans who travel from as far as Aberdeen every weekend. 
Sadly, the demise of Rangers may do more to quell this bigotry nonsense more than any government has in the last decade of lip service effort.  
Has the police service changed as it used to be the running joke about masonic handshakes to get in??
		
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No chance. Its a way of life.


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## Iaing (Jul 3, 2012)

Does anyone else find it a bit ironic ( and perhaps a bit sinister ) that the vote on whether the newco goes in the first division takes place on the 12th of July. :mmm:


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## chris661 (Jul 3, 2012)

Yer Maw said:



			Sadly the bigotry does exist as a way of life in the West though that includes most of Central Scotland over to Falkirk.  The Est manages to keep it to the potted glory hunter Old Firm fans who travel from as far as Aberdeen every weekend. 
Sadly, the demise of Rangers may do more to quell this bigotry nonsense more than any government has in the last decade of lip service effort.  
Has the police service changed as it used to be the running joke about masonic handshakes to get in??
		
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Did they ever follow through on the proposals to get judges to declare if they were a member of secret organisations? It was in the pipeline when I left Scotland.

Nothing like keeping this on track though is there


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Does anyone else find it a bit ironic ( and perhaps a bit sinister ) that the vote on whether the newco goes in the first division takes place on the 12th of July. :mmm:
		
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I feel another march coming on.


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## Iaing (Jul 3, 2012)

Their feet must be getting sore by now ! :rofl:


Anyway. To try and get back on topic.
What did everyone make of the newco's public apology?
As expected, I thought it sounded grudging and threatening with the talk of Scottish football looking into an abyss.
I would say it was more the newco who were facing the abyss.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Their feet must be getting sore by now ! :rofl:


Anyway. To try and get back on topic.
What did everyone make of the newco's public apology?
As expected, I thought it sounded grudging and threatening with the talk of Scottish football looking into an abyss.
I would say it was more the newco who were facing the abyss.
		
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Lip service pish Iain,nothing more.Sorry? My erse they are.


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## bigslice (Jul 3, 2012)

munro007 said:



			No chance. Its a CASUAL way of life. 

Click to expand...

fixed lol


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## munro007 (Jul 3, 2012)

What you like :rofl:


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## DCB (Jul 3, 2012)

C'mon gents, lets not drop off into the abyss here please. This thread has developed over time, but tonight it's been in danger of crossing the line.

Thread tidied up as a result.


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## smange (Jul 3, 2012)

Lot of feeling around tonight on Dunfermline and other clubs forums that there is going to be a bit of backing down from the SFL clubs allowing Newco into the first division.

If this happens, regardless of how my club vote, im finished with Scottish football and I think many people will be.

Whats the point in being in a league thats so corrupt that it bends and breaks rules to allow a new club to jump straight into the second tier of a league set up? 

If it happens it will bring around the death of Scottish football a lot quicker than forecast in the the bullying document sent out to SFL clubs.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

DCB said:



			C'mon gents, lets not drop off into the abyss here please. This thread has developed over time, but tonight it's been in danger of crossing the line.

Thread tidied up as a result.
		
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Well done,cover up Crawfords tracks after personal attacks.

It hasn't been in danger at all,not until a certain someone came on banding false accusations around.

Way out of order.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

Reports that SPL club will not take the vote tomorrow now.

Can it be that the clubs who said they were voting know have now shat it and are going to about turn?

I am sure the fans of those clubs that in the interim period decided to buy their season books on the back of this will be happy?

Messy to say the least,it getting beyone a joke now,someone either have the baws to pull the trigger or just shut the game down!


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## Iaing (Jul 3, 2012)

smange said:



			Lot of feeling around tonight on Dunfermline and other clubs forums that there is going to be a bit of backing down from the SFL clubs allowing Newco into the first division.

If this happens, regardless of how my club vote, im finished with Scottish football and I think many people will be.

Whats the point in being in a league thats so corrupt that it bends and breaks rules to allow a new club to jump straight into the second tier of a league set up? 

If it happens it will bring around the death of Scottish football a lot quicker than forecast in the the bullying document sent out to SFL clubs.
		
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Totally agree with you Stephen. I feel exactly the same.


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## smange (Jul 3, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Reports that SPL club will not take the vote tomorrow now.

Can it be that the clubs who said they were voting know have now shat it and are going to about turn?

I am sure the fans of those clubs that in the interim period decided to buy their season books on the back of this will be happy?

Messy to say the least,it getting beyone a joke now,someone either have the baws to pull the trigger or just shut the game down!
		
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Seen that too Dodger, can only think they are hoping the SFL clubs will take it out of their hands so they can welcome Rangers back into the SPL whilst also being able to say that they didnt actually vote against Rangers. 

Starting to look like all these guys who preached sporting integrity and fairness may actually be about to give in to out and out bullying.

Link to report- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18699838


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## Iaing (Jul 3, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Reports that SPL club will not take the vote tomorrow now.

Can it be that the clubs who said they were voting know have now shat it and are going to about turn?

I am sure the fans of those clubs that in the interim period decided to buy their season books on the back of this will be happy?

Messy to say the least,it getting beyone a joke now,someone either have the baws to pull the trigger or just shut the game down!
		
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Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest Alan. A bunch of incompetents.


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## smange (Jul 3, 2012)

One thing that stands out on that report though is the feelings of the RFFF (Rangers Fans Fighting Fund) 

They have had a vote on a few issues and it makes for interesting reading, showing that even the Rangers fans feel its only right that they should start from the bottom..

"Meanwhile, the Rangers Fans Fighting Fun has claimed that a poll of supporters showed that 75% of the club's fans would rather play in Division Three than accept a compromise deal for a place in Division One. 
Only 3% wanted to accept a place in Division One if it meant that sanctions were inherited as a result of the actions of the old Rangers, which is heading for liquidation. 
Even a place in Division One without sanctions only received the support of 20%."

Even the RFFF feel the same as everyone else by the look of it:thup:


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2012)

smange said:



			One thing that stands out on that report though is the feelings of the RFFF (Rangers Fans Fighting Fund) 

They have had a vote on a few issues and it makes for interesting reading, showing that even the Rangers fans feel its only right that they should start from the bottom..

"Meanwhile, the Rangers Fans Fighting Fun has claimed that a poll of supporters showed that 75% of the club's fans would rather play in Division Three than accept a compromise deal for a place in Division One. 
Only 3% wanted to accept a place in Division One if it meant that sanctions were inherited as a result of the actions of the old Rangers, which is heading for liquidation. 
Even a place in Division One without sanctions only received the support of 20%."

Even the RFFF feel the same as everyone else by the look of it:thup:
		
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Sadly,when have they ever listened to the fans.

Whatever happens hopefully they will take the opportunity to re build the set up of the game and also weed out the crooks that are governing the game in Scotland....all for the good of Scottish Football.

I am not holding my breath though guys.


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## smange (Jul 3, 2012)

No chance Dodger

SPL/SFA/SFL have in last few months been shown to be corrupt and run by people only interested in their own gain. 

Too many guys with fingers in too many pies within Scottish football.

Good article here http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thom...nflicts-interest-heart-scottish-football/2137 regarding conflicts of interest in Scottish football which is seemingly against the rules but have been OK'd by the powers that be, surprisingly or NOT they all involve Rangers


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## StuartD (Jul 3, 2012)

Seen a lot of reports on twitter about possibility of no vote as well. Won't kick rfc out until they are sure sfl1 plan is accepted. If spl vote is deffered tomorrow I fully expect the sfl to do the same next week


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Seen a lot of reports on twitter about possibility of no vote as well. Won't kick rfc out until they are sure sfl1 plan is accepted. If spl vote is deffered tomorrow I fully expect the sfl to do the same next week
		
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Look its simple.

SPL clubs want Rangers in SFL1.
SFL clubs will likely vote for a newco to start in SFL3.
Only way to do this is for SPL clubs to vote Rangers into SPL and then relegate them for dual contracts - unless the SFL agree to allow newco into SFL1.

SPL don't want to make up their minds until they know what SFL will do.
SFL are not going to make up their minds until they know what SPL have decided.

SPL clubs fans have made it abundantly clear that newco in SPL = GTF big time. SPL fans will also be extremely hacked off if this is used as a route to relegate them into SFL1 and there is no guarantee that SFL wouldn't take a relegated Rangers and find a reason to punt them from SFL1 to SFL3 anyway. So SPL clubs haven't currently got the balls to vote them in to the SPL (to relegate them), and haven't got the balls to vote them out either.


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## chris661 (Jul 4, 2012)

I have seen a lot of chat on twitter from folk (mainly Celtic supporters) that they are finished with it now. They are handing back/cancelling there season ticket as it is becoming apparent that the game is rigged in the favour of money. Personally I cant blame them and if I was in that position I would be doing exactly the same.

Sad sad times for fitba.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 4, 2012)

smange said:



			Whats the point in being in a league thats so corrupt that it bends and breaks rules to allow a new club to jump straight into the second tier of a league set up? 

If it happens it will bring around the death of Scottish football a lot quicker than forecast in the the bullying document sent out to SFL clubs.
		
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Isnt it sadly Ironic that the club that died because they got caught breaking all the rules may very well be reincarnated into the 1st division , therefore the rules are being broken for them again before they even start to exist.. >? 
your gone because you broke all the rules but we will break them to get you back .. sad ..

Personaly i dont care either way what happens , but its important to a lot on here , & it seem all the decent fans on both sides accept , Apply to div 3 . sure to be accepted & start properly & within the rules .. 
Can totaly understand why other clubs fans would turn their back on Scottish footall if this is not the way it happens tho ..


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## Val (Jul 4, 2012)

Dodger said:



Look its simple.

SPL clubs want Rangers in SFL1.
SFL clubs will likely vote for a newco to start in SFL3.
Only way to do this is for SPL clubs to vote Rangers into SPL and then relegate them for dual contracts - unless the SFL agree to allow newco into SFL1.

SPL don't want to make up their minds until they know what SFL will do.
SFL are not going to make up their minds until they know what SPL have decided.

SPL clubs fans have made it abundantly clear that newco in SPL = GTF big time. SPL fans will also be extremely hacked off if this is used as a route to relegate them into SFL1 and there is no guarantee that SFL wouldn't take a relegated Rangers and find a reason to punt them from SFL1 to SFL3 anyway. So SPL clubs haven't currently got the balls to vote them in to the SPL (to relegate them), and haven't got the balls to vote them out either.

Click to expand...

100% spot on Dodger.  A collleague of mine was at the St Mirren meeting last night and Stewart Gilmour laid it on line that most clubs can cope with 1 year of no Rangers and the preffered option looks to be SFL 1 for a year.

Turnbull Hutton is correct, the game is corrupt to the core now and the fact that 1 club now has Scottish Football almost held to ransom tells you all you need to know.

Scottish Football RIP, you've been dying for years anyway.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 4, 2012)

Do you not think Murdoch's Sky sports are driving this agenda?


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## Val (Jul 4, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Do you not think Murdoch's Sky sports are driving this agenda?
		
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No, I don't think they are involved in any discussions.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 4, 2012)

Not that we know of!!


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

Valentino said:



			100% spot on Dodger. A collleague of mine was at the St Mirren meeting last night and Stewart Gilmour laid it on line that most clubs can cope with 1 year of no Rangers and the preffered option looks to be SFL 1 for a year.

Turnbull Hutton is correct, the game is corrupt to the core now and the fact that 1 club now has Scottish Football almost held to ransom tells you all you need to know.

Scottish Football RIP, you've been dying for years anyway.
		
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So what happens if Newco get into the 1st division and dont win promotion first time of asking?

Do we then change the rules to suit them again. 

This whole saga stinks and its getting worse by the day....

Only in Scottish football could we be sitting here with a league programme about to start in 5 weeks time and we have 3 clubs at least not knowing what league they are in and one of them not even knowing if they will be in a league.

Well done SPL/SFL/SFA for making our game an even bigger laughing stock than it already was


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## GreiginFife (Jul 4, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not that we know of!!
		
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No, they are not. And it's not Murdoch's Sky Doon, it's run by a guy called Jeremy Darroch. Little bit of fact finding before bold statements eh?

Sky don't really care about the SPL if they get the opportunity to pull the plug on the deal I reckon they will. Viewing figures for some SPL games (OF derby games aside) were lower than some episodes of The Simpsons, so what does it bring to Sky? Not much. 

Make no mistake, this agenda as you put it, is being driven by greed from Hampden. The powers at the SPL and the SFA don't give a jot what the fans want but what they think will bring them more money. It's actually fear of losing the SPL deal with Sky (knowing that it's appeal is tenuous at best) that's driving this IMO.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

smange said:



			So what happens if Newco get into the 1st division and dont win promotion first time of asking?

Do we then change the rules to suit them again. 

This whole saga stinks and its getting worse by the day....

Only in Scottish football could we be sitting here with a league programme about to start in 5 weeks time and we have 3 clubs at least not knowing what league they are in and one of them not even knowing if they will be in a league.

Well done SPL/SFL/SFA for making our game an even bigger laughing stock than it already was

Click to expand...

The thing is Smange the season COULD start in 3 weeks time for Sevco as Ramsdens Cup is 28th July!:mmm:

I really fear for the game regardless of which option is taken,fans have seen how shockingly badly run the game is,they thought it for years but now they are seeing it right before their eyes.


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

Dodger said:



			The thing is Smange the season COULD start in 3 weeks time for Sevco as Ramsdens Cup is 28th July!:mmm:

I really fear for the game regardless of which option is taken,fans have seen how shockingly badly run the game is,they thought it for years but now they are seeing it right before their eyes.
		
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If the vote goes the right and proper way Dodger, my season starts next saturday at the footballing mecca also known as Shielfield Park:thup:. Timed this years visit to the Borders perfectly for the match, will you be in attendance?

Hopefully might get a game with you at the Hirsel and/or Goswick if you around and not away on one of your jaunts.

back on topic though...Turnbull Hutton once again says it like it is..

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/range...pl-says-raith-chief-turnbull-hutton-1-2390499

Im starting to sound like his stalker but you gotta love him:clap:


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## Val (Jul 4, 2012)

smange said:



			So what happens if Newco get into the 1st division and dont win promotion first time of asking?

Do we then change the rules to suit them again. 

This whole saga stinks and its getting worse by the day....

Only in Scottish football could we be sitting here with a league programme about to start in 5 weeks time and we have 3 clubs at least not knowing what league they are in and one of them not even knowing if they will be in a league.

Well done SPL/SFL/SFA for making our game an even bigger laughing stock than it already was

Click to expand...

That very question was asked of Stewart Gilmour and he said he has no players on any longer than 2 year deals so could cope untill then and thereafter look at cutting costs, he laid a very black picture by suggesting that St Mirren (who are a well run club) could still face administration.


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## thecraw (Jul 4, 2012)

Valentino said:



			That very question was asked of Stewart Gilmour and he said he has no players on any longer than 2 year deals so could cope untill then and thereafter look at cutting costs,* he laid a very black picture by suggesting that St Mirren (who are a well run club) could still face administration.*

Click to expand...


That I know for a fact is not true. PM me and I will tell you why I know that its not true 100%. Possibly a bit of scare mongering but not true.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

smange said:



			If the vote goes the right and proper way Dodger, my season starts next saturday at the footballing mecca also known as Shielfield Park:thup:. Timed this years visit to the Borders perfectly for the match, will you be in attendance?

Hopefully might get a game with you at the Hirsel and/or Goswick if you around and not away on one of your jaunts.

back on topic though...Turnbull Hutton once again says it like it is..

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/range...pl-says-raith-chief-turnbull-hutton-1-2390499

Im starting to sound like his stalker but you gotta love him:clap:
		
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Friendly isn't it? Big hopes for the Dream Team this year from the locals although I don't really share it as we haven't really got a team yet!

Struggling for golf as got Captains day at Hirsel 14th,Christening on 15th,day at work 16th then off to Tuscany on 17th for a week.

Let me know if you want a tee time at Hirsel and I'll book you in at a mate rate.


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Friendly isn't it? Big hopes for the Dream Team this year from the locals although I don't really share it as we haven't really got a team yet!

Struggling for golf as got Captains day at Hirsel 14th,Christening on 15th,day at work 16th then off to Tuscany on 17th for a week.

Let me know if you want a tee time at Hirsel and I'll book you in at a mate rate.

Click to expand...

Yep friendly but I will pop along as long as the Newco fiasco is sorted and sorted properly by then.

Your a busy guy and hard to pin down for a game of golf

Hows the Hirsel for getting on as a visitor on a sunday afternoon as might be looking to play 15th and if not that day will be either thursday 19th or friday 20th


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## Val (Jul 4, 2012)

thecraw said:



			That I know for a fact is not true. PM me and I will tell you why I know that its not true 100%. Possibly a bit of scare mongering but not true.
		
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I know why you know as we had spoke on how you have your contact on the way up to Machrihanish, however my work colleague was there last night and that is what was said by Stewart, scaremongering maybe.


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## StuartD (Jul 4, 2012)

Dodger said:



			The thing is Smange the season COULD start in 3 weeks time for Sevco as Ramsdens Cup is 28th July!:mmm:

I really fear for the game regardless of which option is taken,fans have seen how shockingly badly run the game is,they thought it for years but now they are seeing it right before their eyes.
		
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Technically the Ramsdens cup would need to be a redraw. Rangers would need to take dunfermline or Dundee's place. Both clubs are currently in the North/East section. Rangers should be in the West/South section and one of the more central clubs (Livi or East stirlingshire should move section :rofl:


As for what would happen if rangers were in SFL1 and do not get promoted.

A few months ago when Rangers went into admin, the non old firm 10 had meetings to discuss reconstruction. It was at this time Peter Lawell stated he would not be against a 14 team league, probably to keep a 2 team veto vote on some topics which suited the old firm. I would fully expect further SPL reconstruction and Rangers be one of the teams invited into the 14 team SPL if they did not win promotion


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## bladeplayer (Jul 4, 2012)

Dodger said:



			The thing is Smange the season COULD start in 3 weeks time for Sevco as Ramsdens Cup is 28th July!

.
		
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Just wondering .... no mater where they end up  Do the new team have a team?  or a panel players  ?


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Technically the Ramsdens cup would need to be a redraw. Rangers would need to take dunfermline or Dundee's place. Both clubs are currently in the North/East section. Rangers should be in the West/South section and one of the more central clubs (Livi or East stirlingshire should move section :rofl:


As for what would happen if rangers were in SFL1 and do not get promoted.

A few months ago when Rangers went into admin, the non old firm 10 had meetings to discuss reconstruction. It was at this time Peter Lawell stated he would not be against a 14 team league, probably to keep a 2 team veto vote on some topics which suited the old firm. I would fully expect further SPL reconstruction and Rangers be one of the teams invited into the 14 team SPL if they did not win promotion
		
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Interesting,Stuart,will you get to put a wee gold star on the strip if you lift the Ramsdens?:ears:


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## GreiginFife (Jul 4, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Interesting,Stuart,will you get to put a wee gold star on the strip if you lift the Ramsdens?:ears:
		
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Will be a brass one - nay money for a gold one Dodger!


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Just wondering .... no mater where they end up Do the new team have a team? or a panel players ?
		
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Bill, I think they managed 13 at training but that included 2 keepers so they can put 11 out on the park but im sure once they know whats happening will sign a few more and the SPL/SFA/SFL will probably extend the transfer deadline for them anyway so I wouldnt worry too much about them having a side.


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## DaveM (Jul 4, 2012)

Funny I dont know why. But I have read this thread from beginning to end. I have no interest in Scottish football. Very little in football full stop.
I think the only thing that kept me reading. Was the shock and disgust. At many of the views not connected to football flying about. All I can say its a sorry day for Scotland and all the decent Scots people of who there must be many.


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## thecraw (Jul 4, 2012)

*Raymond Buchanan &#8207;@BBCRaymondB*
Westminster Corr David Porter reports Commons Media and Sport Cmte to look into the state of Scottish football with first evidence next week



Found this today!!!!


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

thecraw said:



*Raymond Buchanan &#8207;@BBCRaymondB*
Westminster Corr David Porter reports Commons Media and Sport Cmte to look into the state of Scottish football with first evidence next week



Found this today!!!!

Click to expand...

Jesus NO!!!

Scottish football is corrupt enough without letting theiving, lying, self indulgent politicians into the mix:angry:


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

News Just Breaking

SPL clubs have stood up and and been counted.

They have at last voted No to Newco being in SPL next season:clap:


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## StuartD (Jul 4, 2012)

smange said:



			News Just Breaking

SPL clubs have stood up and and been counted.

They have at last voted No to Newco being in SPL next season:clap:
		
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Or they got confirmation that SFL1 plan will be accepted


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Or they got confirmation that SFL1 plan will be accepted

Click to expand...

Copper star is a possibility then Stuart....:clap:


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Or they got confirmation that SFL1 plan will be accepted

Click to expand...

I certainly hope not Stuart, you know as well as I do that it would be wrong but then again we are talking about Scottish football so anything possible.


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## Slab (Jul 4, 2012)

Reports now appearing online that the votes have been cast (which even a vote taking place was in doubt) and the No's have it for admission to SPL. Club 12 TBC but not the old or new Rangers

Edit, it seems at least 10 clubs opposed the motion


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## thecraw (Jul 4, 2012)

Rangers voted for themselves so I'd guess either Celtic or Killie also wanted them in SPL.


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## thecraw (Jul 4, 2012)

10 against, 1 for, 1 abstention


True figures.


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Rangers voted for themselves so I'd guess either Celtic or Killie also wanted them in SPL.
		
Click to expand...

Must have been Killie

No way would Celtic have voted for them, not worth them risking the backlash from their supporters in a vote that in all honesty we already knew the result to, so it was easy for Celtic to vote NO.

Im sure it will come out in the wash who the Yes club or clubs are.

Although cant see why Rangers would get a vote as they arent currently an SPL club


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

smange said:



			Must have been Killie

No way would Celtic have voted for them, not worth them risking the backlash from their supporters in a vote that in all honesty we already knew the result to, so it was easy for Celtic to vote NO.

Im sure it will come out in the wash who the Yes club or clubs are.

Although cant see why Rangers would get a vote as they arent currently an SPL club
		
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MJ was a stick on as the yesman.That said I wouldn't trust my man an inch.


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## Paul_Stewart (Jul 4, 2012)

Nice to see the BBC reporting accurately ...

"SFL clubs met on Tuesday to discuss a proposal for Rangers to enter Division One but, if that does not gain the support of a majority of clubs, they could begin season 2011-12 in Division Three. "

So they are going to be so draconian in their punishment that they are going to go back a year and drop them out of the Premier League from then?!!


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

Sevco no,Killie abstained.:mmm:


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## StuartD (Jul 4, 2012)

I heard it was Ross County who abstained


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

I think there has been some sort of agreement made with SFL clubs.

The scenario I can see happeneing is that SFL clubs vote No to the first division but allow Newco into the third, all saving face with their own support.

 Then at the end of next season we have a major restructuring of the league set up with the top league being made up of 16 teams who all meet certain criteria which will be along the lines of the current SPL requirements, this will encompass next seasons SPL teams plus invites to 4 others which will include Newco and the top 3 teams in the first division who meet the criteria laid out.

That way Newco will be seen to have started at bottom and received their punishment plus they will only be away from the top tier for only one season. 

Then apparently all will be well with Scottish football as we will have had reconstruction and Rangers will be in top league.

Within a couple of years Scottish teams will rule Europe and our national side shall be challenging to win World Cups and Euro Championships.


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## Val (Jul 4, 2012)

All hearsay guys and not that it matters a jot regardless.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

Sevco yes I meant lads....sorry,getting carried away in the joy I am feeling.

Sevco yes,Johnston, sorry, Killie abstained.

The only thing that matters is they are not in.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2012)

Was the cheating not discussed today?

I am sure it was supposed to be...no doubt they have put it off and will reconvene to talk about it later.


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

Hilarious quote from a statement made today by Stewart Regan, Chief Executive of the SFA


But Regan bluntly asserted that Scottish football simply cannot afford to have Rangers outwith the top two tiers of the league structure, with his argument not confined to the commercial impact their absence would have.

â€œWithout Rangers, there is social unrest and a big problem for Scottish society,â€ claimed Regan. â€œThey have a huge fan base and to contemplate the situation where those fans donâ€™t have a team to support, where those fans are effectively left without a game to follow, I just think that could lead to all sorts of issues, all sorts of problems for the game.

â€œTribalism in football is really important. It is part of the game. People follow their clubs with pride, it is passed down from generation to generation. There are thousands of Rangers fans whose fathers and parents and grandfathers have been Rangers fans. You canâ€™t contemplate a situation without that and if Rangers werenâ€™t to exist that could have real dire consequences.

All that nonsense from the man running our game and we wonder why its a mess


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## StuartD (Jul 4, 2012)

smange said:



			Hilarious quote from a statement made today by Stewart Regan, Chief Executive of the SFA


But Regan bluntly asserted that Scottish football simply cannot afford to have Rangers outwith the top two tiers of the league structure, with his argument not confined to the commercial impact their absence would have.

â€œWithout Rangers, there is social unrest and a big problem for Scottish society,â€ claimed Regan. 

â€œTribalism in football is really important. It is part of the game. People follow their clubs with pride, it is passed down from generation to generation. There are thousands of Rangers fans whose fathers and parents and grandfathers have been Rangers fans. You canâ€™t contemplate a situation without that and if Rangers werenâ€™t to exist that could have real dire consequences.

All that nonsense from the man running our game and we wonder why its a mess

Click to expand...

Just finished a couple of beers and was going to put the bottles in the glass recycling bin. Now not sure if I should keep the for home made petrol bombs, just in case



What an idiot


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## smange (Jul 4, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Just finished a couple of beers and was going to put the bottles in the glass recycling bin. Now not sure if I should keep the for home made petrol bombs, just in case



What an idiot
		
Click to expand...

If that statement alone doesnt cost him his job theres something wrong and while he is resigning can he get that plank Doncaster to do the decent thing as well and sod off back to where he came from.

Once this fiasco is over all these governing bodies need a clear out of all the idiots who have contributed to this dragging on and on.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 4, 2012)

Good god, this guy is in charge of Scottish Football.
He is sooooooooooooo far off the mark.

The even scarier thought is....who were the people who appointed him.


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## Dodger (Jul 5, 2012)

smange said:



			Hilarious quote from a statement made today by Stewart Regan, Chief Executive of the SFA


But Regan bluntly asserted that Scottish football simply cannot afford to have Rangers outwith the top two tiers of the league structure, with his argument not confined to the commercial impact their absence would have.

â€œWithout Rangers, there is social unrest and a big problem for Scottish society,â€ claimed Regan. â€œThey have a huge fan base and to contemplate the situation where those fans donâ€™t have a team to support, where those fans are effectively left without a game to follow, I just think that could lead to all sorts of issues, all sorts of problems for the game.

â€œTribalism in football is really important. It is part of the game. People follow their clubs with pride, it is passed down from generation to generation. There are thousands of Rangers fans whose fathers and parents and grandfathers have been Rangers fans. You canâ€™t contemplate a situation without that and if Rangers werenâ€™t to exist that could have real dire consequences.

All that nonsense from the man running our game and we wonder why its a mess

Click to expand...

Another man in charge who's a dyed in the wool bluenose then?

I'm surprised the article wasn't supported by a picture of him next to his pin up of the Queen.

Total and utter idiot.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 5, 2012)

Interesting that the Old Rangers players are being snapped up by E&WPL teams. Not too much difference between the top of the SPL and the E&WPL then.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 5, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Interesting that the Old Rangers players are being snapped up by E&WPL teams. Not too much difference between the top of the SPL and the E&WPL then.
		
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We (Everton) have no money so we were glad of SN on a free , i supose there is always the option that we could NOT pay our bills etc & have money to spend & maybe then we could win something , wouldnt be right tho would it ?? or would it ? only teasing ...
Must admit i find that statement by Regan very strange & blinkered,  p45 time for that dude id say ..


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 5, 2012)

Still got to pay his wages though Blade.
He was on Â£15k a week at Old Rangers, plus the usual perks, pension scheme, trust etc.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 5, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Still got to pay his wages though Blade.
He was on Â£15k a week at Old Rangers, plus the usual perks, pension scheme, trust etc.
		
Click to expand...

sorry not to sidetrack a great thread .  cahill prob heading out the door to asia mate , so be a natrual replacement , and he knows how to play with Jelavic ..


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## Val (Jul 5, 2012)

Naismith when fit will be a cracking addition for Everton to be fair.


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## thecraw (Jul 5, 2012)

In relation to Regan who is now claiming he was "misquoted" I found this letter on another site. If everyone copies it, signs it and emails it to the SFA it could get interesting.





Dear Stewart,

I awake this morning on the back of what was a great day for Scottish football, that should now lead on to a full and thorough redrawing of the Scottish football model, for the benefit of all fans and clubs in the country, rather than two sets, to read your appalling statement from late yesterday.

How can someone in charge of the game in this country, state we are about to enter a slow lingering death?

The fans don't believe it, the clubs (10Â½ SPL & at least 10 so far confirmed SFL clubs that is) don't believe it, and yet you, rather than set about driving some positivity, and try to generate new deals based on a game not grounded in bigotry, but fairness and equality, are the doom monger in chief!

You have admitted openly and publicly that you are unable to see the positives and opportunities that yesterday's groundbreaking vote brought. If your position is that the game must be fixed in favour of one of two teams, and there is no alternative (when quite clearly there is) then you are either incompetent, or in the back pocket of the Old Firm.

Either way, if you cannot stop this "slow lingering death", then please step aside in favour of someone who can see a bright and positive future for our sport; you simply must go.

Regards

Click to expand...


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## HughJars (Jul 5, 2012)

^^^Good letter that Craw, guy that wrote it clearly knows his stuff!  ;-)


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## thecraw (Jul 5, 2012)

HughJars said:



			^^^Good letter that Craw, guy that wrote it clearly knows his stuff!  ;-)
		
Click to expand...

Do you ken him?

:cheers:


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## birdieman (Jul 5, 2012)

Iâ€™ve been following the Rangers debacle with interest. Was thinking like everyone else up here how this might unfold. 

What happens next Thursday if the SFL clubs donâ€™t accept newco in any of the 3 leagues? Does that mean newco is washed up completely and Green sells everything for whatever he can  get? Can they afford to sit out for a year? Many of the SFL chairmen are publicly saying they wont be bullied and are ignoring scaremongering from Regan and the like and do not want a newco in their league, especially parachuted straight into Div 1. The SPL didnâ€™t want newco so why would the SFL? This seems like a real possibility.

Many Rangers fans seem to now want Division 3 in the hope that it will be seen as a fair punishment but more than that many think it will get other SPL/SFL clubs into financial difficulties which is just spiteful given the position their former owners have left them in and the way other clubs are now not letting sevco walk all over them in their attempts to find a way back in.  The â€œweâ€™re Rangers therefore weâ€™re more important than youâ€ stance that the club and fans seem to continue to take is whatâ€™s riling other clubs the most, sheer arrogance and no acceptance of the magnitude of the fallout from their Â£130 million odd debts they now cannot pay back. They have by appauling mismanagement effectively stolen money from creditors though why people continued to invest over the past few years I have no idea. They racked up that debt it seems by repeatedly overspending and speculating wildly on Champions League success bringing in money over something like a 20 year period with no questions being asked. At some point as the debts racked up and up surely people shouldâ€™ve stepped in but instead we just saw revelry from fans in cleaning up domestically over and over again. Unless their attitude changes and they show some remorse and humility at this point I would not be upset to see Sevco Rangers disappear altogether. There will always be some kind of football league to go and watch in Scotland even if clubs all go part time!

Some non league clubs want to join the league so why should newco queue jump just because of size and former glories? Seems to me if newco disappear altogether and with it their alleged cash cow (if true) which supports all the other clubs in Scotland, the only way to drastically reduce costs IMO is to -


slash wage bills - if that means over the hill foreigners no longer come and there is an exodus of pros going abroad looking for Â£Â£ then so be it, that may help Scottish youngsters get in teams. Our better pros plying their trade in England or Europe should improve the quality of our national team too.
Pay players Â£50k to Â£100k per year not per week which is still a damn good wage. If you donâ€™t have huge overheads as a club then you donâ€™t need to rely as much on tv money. This business of saying itâ€™s a short career so I have to make a fortune now is ridiculous, retrain after football and get a different job like the rest of us. If you are good enough a team from a wealthy foreign league will make you rich. Medicore players should not be on massive wages. Â£5k/week for example is a fortune to your average man in the street.
Make the current 4 divisions into 2 divisions and have each club play other teams 2x per year in the league, not 4 or more.
Play on a Saturday at 3pm, not every other night of the week. People can get to the match then and have a highlights show in the evening on tv but not too late for kids to watch.
Get a lower value tv deal with BBC/ITV (Sportscene/Scotsport) again and spread 70% of tv money evenly across all clubs in the top division with a smaller 30% pot spread evenly across all clubs in lower division. Football clubs survived long before tv came along so it can survive without Sky. We do not need Sky.
Get the punters back by reducing ticket prices drastically so a family of 4 can go watch for Â£25. This would increase gates. Itâ€™s only an hour and a halfâ€™s entertainment, it should not cost anything like it does presently. Ordinary folks (rather than diehard fans) who might fancy going along sometimes will not pay the stupid prices to get in.
Get rid of playing through winter and play the season the Scandinavians and Russians play. That would let us enjoy football in reasonable weather, maybe even in t-shirts and sunnies, again increasing gates. Itâ€™s not like we have a county cricket season up here!
Accept that competing in European club comps is generally beyond us, treat it as a novelty and focus on having a domestic league that is competitive. Scottish league will always be a feeder league to the EPL and other bigger leagues so why fight that. 
We need to focus on how countries like Denmark and Sweden do things and copy their model. Sky tv doesnâ€™t bother with those leagues but they do ok, they never win European club comps anymore but they are competitive leagues and do produce consistently decent international teams.
 
Interesting times!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 5, 2012)

Birdieman
Astute summing up there.
I think the point here is will the fans put their wallets where their mouths are and start to buy the season tickets.
An SPL without Rangers seems like a good opportunity for my club Hearts to step up to the plate. 
Or
Will they see the SPL as being devalued without a team of the Old Rangers football playing standard.
Scottish football is horrendously overpriced and a pricing structure you speak of would probably work.
10,000 gates @Â£10 a head is much better than 4.000 gates @Â£25. Secondary spend, atmosphere, join the crowd.


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## Iaing (Jul 5, 2012)

I think the fans will buy season tickets now. I'm even considering buying myself ( which I haven't done for four years now ).

If Celtic had gone the same way as Rangers, I'd definitely get one.


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## Slab (Jul 6, 2012)

Just had a look at the 5 page proposal presented to the 11 other clubs to persuade them to let a Rangers team into the SPL.......

20 mins work in a broom cupboard with a laptop & a staple gun would have produced a more professional document

The content is......(i'm stuck for the words really)

Check out story in Telegraph online to see it


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## Val (Jul 6, 2012)

I can't see newco hanging around for long, if reports in that rag they call The Daily Record are to be believed newco have sold a total of 250 season tickets

:rofl:


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## chris661 (Jul 6, 2012)

Slab said:



			Just had a look at the 5 page proposal presented to the 11 other clubs to persuade them to let a Rangers team into the SPL.......

20 mins work in a broom cupboard with a laptop & a staple gun would have produced a more professional document

The content is......(i'm stuck for the words really)

Check out story in Telegraph online to see it
		
Click to expand...

Apparently the "diddy" teams got copies that were only stapled together and Celtic got their copy spiral bound. But that pales into insignificance when you see the back page, arrogant or what?


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## HughJars (Jul 6, 2012)

also apparently, while the Chairmen are all reading that piffle, they're on the part about a voluntary transfer embargo, when one of them gets an email on his blackberry announcing Ian Black will sign for Sevco5088 if they are admitted into the SPL.

Timing....


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## smange (Jul 6, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I think the fans will buy season tickets now. I'm even considering buying myself ( which I haven't done for four years now ).

If Celtic had gone the same way as Rangers, I'd definitely get one.
		
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Iain, im right in saying your a killie fan arent I?

If so have you read your chairmans statement regarding his abstination from the SPL vote?

And if you have read it are you still going to buy a season ticket?

I hope your chairman is ready for a large decrease in numbers of away fans at your ground next season


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## Iaing (Jul 6, 2012)

Stephen,
Yes, I'm a Killie fan.
I've read this statement http://www.kilmarnockfc.co.uk/articles/20120705/official-statement_85961_2833623
I presume this is the one you're talking about.
 Would certainly have preferred him to vote no, but can understand, given the figures why he abstained. I'm only surprised that he listened to anyone and didn't vote yes.
Will I get a season ticket? I doubt it, but if I don't it won't be because of the abstention.
Fan boycotts? Over the years there's been many threats of boycotts over everything from ticket pricing to the quality of the pies.
These tend not to happen, or if they do they fizzle out in a week or two.
Time will tell.


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## Kaizer_Soze (Jul 7, 2012)

Killie = Huns in stripes


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## williamalex1 (Jul 7, 2012)

Kaizer_Soze said:



			Killie = Huns in stripes
		
Click to expand...

that might just be a good idea, could call them the killgers and they'r back in the spl


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 7, 2012)

I think Mr Johnson had one eye on the Old Rangers fans transfering to Killie. There are plenty in North Ayrshire.


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## smange (Jul 7, 2012)

At last some good news for Rangers:thup:





:rofl:


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## chris661 (Jul 7, 2012)

smange said:



			At last some good news for Rangers:thup:


View attachment 2097


:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

And now for some bad news. The recent announcement that goal line technology is to be introduced wont affect rangers as hawkeye say it won't work with jumpers for goalposts. 









Wa wa waaahhhhhh


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## smange (Jul 7, 2012)

A message from Cloughie to Rangers

[video=youtube;NRVaLs4cBlg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRVaLs4cBlg[/video]


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## munro007 (Jul 7, 2012)

smange said:



			A message from Cloughie to Rangers

[video=youtube;NRVaLs4cBlg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRVaLs4cBlg[/video]
		
Click to expand...


Hahahaha :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 8, 2012)

As a cost cutting exercise the players will no longer be having a cooked breakfast after training.
Instead they will be offered a small packet of Cheerios.


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## smange (Jul 9, 2012)

Great statement from Hibs fans:thup:

AUTHOR: hibsclub

The Hibs Club has watched events in Scottish football this summer with increasing concern:

For Hibs and their fans this summer should have been solely about a much needed rebuilding process.

Instead we have watched with increasing concern as the whole Scottish game has been tarnished by the financial collapse of Rangers.

As Hibs fans we know only too well how men concerned more with profiteering than the wishes of fans can risk the very existence of a football club.

So it is with increasing dismay that we have watched Scottish football tear itself apart in its attempts to protect a business model that operates more for the benefit of TV executives than ordinary supporters.

We believe that the new Rangers â€“ if they can satisfy the usual standards demanded for SFA membership â€“ should start out again in the Third Division.

We welcomed the â€œnoâ€ vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive â€“ with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA â€“ has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.

Not only do we find the tactics used by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan abhorrent, we also take issue with the doomsday scenarios they have offered as evidence.

While TV money and corporate sponsorship are undoubtedly important we do not believe that all of them would vanish if the Rangers newco was not guaranteed a place in the SPL within 12 months.

We would also argue that additional benefits â€“ including a return to more regular 3pm Saturday kick off times â€“ would offset some of the lost revenue.

This, however, is an issue that should go beyond finances.

It is essential that Hibernian â€“ like all clubs â€“ are part of a fair and equitable league structure with governing bodies that are consistent and reasonable in their treatment of all clubs.

We do not believe that is currently the case and we would call on all SPL clubs â€“ including our own â€“ to urgently address the damage being done to the game by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan.

We have long felt that reconstruction of the league structure was a critical factor in strengthening the Scottish game.

The proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.

These attempts at craven gerrymandering for the sake of one club are an affront to all the commitments to â€œsporting integrityâ€ we have heard over the last few months.

Many Hibernian fans feel cheated. While the financial sacrifices made at Easter Road have not always found favour with many of our fans we do appreciate that these decisions have been made in the interests of long term stability.

We now find our voices ignored as rules are broken or rewritten to favour a club that has spent money it could not afford to buy success.

It is heartbreaking for us to hear members speak of not going back to Easter Road or of turning their back on the Scottish national team.

These are not hollow threats. They are a symptom of the disillusionment many fans feel at a game that seems to constantly betray its paying customers.

While we have sympathy for ordinary Rangers fans left bewildered by current events we have also been saddened over the last few months to hear Ally McCoist attempt to destroy a disciplinary process that had been created to help move the game forward.

Other comments from high profile Rangers figures such as Sandy Jardine have seemed to be nothing more than vindictive threats against other clubs. These have left us shocked and angered.

Now we find ourselves in the unacceptable position of watching Charles Green attempt to sign players while footballing debts to other clubs â€“ debts that are as important as any projected TV or sponsorship income â€“ remain unpaid.

Yet this apparent lack of contrition is being ignored as the Scottish football authorities unite to do what they feel is best for just one club.

We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies.

Hibernian Football Club is our passion. We want to see a strong Hibs on the pitch and off the pitch. We want to see a sustainable Hibernian at the heart of our community.

22 years ago we united as fans to save Hibernian.

Today we find ourselves united in calling for Scottish football to end the current uncertainty, withdraw the the current campaign of bullying and threats aimed at our friends in the Scottish Football League and allow Rangers to rebuild their devastated club from the Third Division.

Fans of other clubs have been accused of â€œhatingâ€ Rangers.

We are defined not by hatred of any club but by our love of Hibernian.

A strong Hibernian in a strong Scottish game will forever be our one and only aim.

A few men motivated by greed and money currently risk that vision.

Fans of Hibernian and every other club cannot stand silently by and let that happen


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## StuartD (Jul 9, 2012)

While I would not disagree with the sentiment of the statement i.e. RFC to go to division 3. I would strongly disagree with a number of points of it. There are a number of points and accusations aimed at RFC that could be equally applied to some other clubs, previously and currently, but there has never been any statement from the Hibs supporters clubs regarding them. However the two most glaring point I disagree with are 


â€œThe proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.â€

Really. You think itâ€™s in RFC interests to be in Div 1 with only 5 players. The team will have to be made up of 16-17 year olds. Their level and experience would be far more suited to Div 3. With next to no money to invest these kids are the future of the club, for their personal development and the long term development of RFC it is better to try and build up gradually (as with any business out there) starting at a level that can be sustained. Also if RFC go to division 1 there are still sanctions going to be applied (out with the EBT case) as stated by the SFA. As yet RFC do not know what they are but the SFA still want RFC to accept the transfer embargo. A transfer embargo and a five man squad would not be in the best interests of RFC. Indeed our Manager has come out and said div 3 would be best and I think anybody with the clubs best interests at hart would agree. I wish those in charge of the club would see it, but unfortunately these people are only wanting a quick return on their investment.



â€œWe welcomed the â€œnoâ€ vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive â€“ with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA â€“ has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.â€


It should be pointed out that Doncaster is the appointed CEO of the SPL. If the SPL clubs feel he is not acting within the interests of the clubs or SPL board any of them could try to raise a vote of No confidence in him. The only SPL club to speak out against Div1 has been Aberdeen who can easily sustain a loss of income as the Chairman could straighten his elbows and reach the bottom of his deep pockets Why has there been silence from all other clubs and in particular those with representatives on the SPL board? (Celtic, Motherwell, St Johnstone and Dundee Utd).

Maybe itâ€™s because Div1 is not being â€œaimed at solely building a strong Rangersâ€. Maybe it is being done so that Rangers can be used as a cash cow to retain TV contracts etc to sustain SPL clubs. We have heard lots of statements about sporting integrity (quite rightly) from SPL chairmen when indicating they would vote not to accept RFC into the SPL. If this sporting integrity was is/still so important why are they not challenging Neil Doncaster on the Div 1 proposal? 


If the Hibernian fans, or fans of any other SPL club, are unhappy with the plan to place RFC, in Division 1, then perhaps they should address their concerns to the boards of the Scottish football authorities, 

Indeed, the Hibernian Supporters Club are in an excellent position to do so, given that their Chairman, Rod Petrie, who is vice president of the SFA, is one of the main architects of this proposal, and he briefed Charles Green on it.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2012)

This is all wheelin and dealin to sort out the SPL2 league.

As I said earlier if the price to pay for a re-structured league is Newco in the 1st [SPL2] division I would not be too unhappy about that.

In the re-structure at least half a dozen clubs will  have to go.
To consider newco to be one of those clubs would IMO not be the best business move for the remaining clubs.


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## smange (Jul 9, 2012)

Re-structuring would have to involve a lot more than just making two leagues under the SPL umbrella though. It would have to be a lot fairer to all clubs, bring back the days of shared gate receipts and an equal split of any TV money, equal voting rights and other things helped at increasing the strength of all clubs which in turn will help increase competitiveness in our top league, which will also benefit the Old Firm.

I am not against Rangers being in any league if its for the greater good of our game in the long run and on the whole and not just for the O.F. and their puppets in the SPL/SFA.


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## StuartD (Jul 9, 2012)

STOP PRESS *** Hot Prospect Rhys mcCabe to leave Gers for Portsmouth ***

You know your in trouble when one of your top youth players leaves for a safer contract at Portsmouth


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## chris661 (Jul 9, 2012)

I will say it again I don't believe sevco will be able to play in ANY league next year. Seemingly the have only sold 600 season books which some of the mine will have to be refunded if the third division beckons. Also with gate sharing why should Celtic suffer and prop up clubs tha can't get the money required? would be like Vodafone having to give mine to O2 as they have more customers.


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## smange (Jul 9, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I will say it again I don't believe sevco will be able to play in ANY league next year. Seemingly the have only sold 600 season books which some of the mine will have to be refunded if the third division beckons. Also with gate sharing why should Celtic suffer and prop up clubs tha can't get the money required? would be like Vodafone having to give mine to O2 as they have more customers.
		
Click to expand...

Clubs used to gate share up until the SPL was started. And what has happened to Scottish football since?

We used to have a competitive league in Scotland or is that what the Old Firm are scared of? They want to use the lack of a competitive league as an excuse when getting horsed out of Europe by the lesser lights of Euro football but deep down dont really want competition just in case their monopoly of the league title is threatened.

We could even relegate Celtic to the 3rd along with Rangers, this gives Sky their 4 games a season as well as bringing bigger crowds to the lower divisions for the couple of years it takes for both the O.F to work their way back to the SPL....


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## Dodger (Jul 9, 2012)

I think it is clear that Sevco will not be in a position to field a side by the start of the season. I believe it was never Greenâ€™s intention to run a Scottish football club. Clear evidence for that is the â€œdeath by powerpointâ€ presentation to the SPL. That cannot have been simple incompetence.

If Green wants to run a football club at all (still an open question) then he wants it in English football. He has said as much. But more likely he just wants to screw every halfpenny he can out of the situation. 

That is the position on the face of it.
But wait a minute~there is clearly something else going on here. Where are Greenâ€™s backers? Where is Whyte? Who REALLY owns Ibrox and Murray Park? Who is paying the wages and other bills right now? When does Sevco run out of cash? Whatever happened to the Blue Knights?

Anybody can see that Sevco are on the brink of insolvency. So why on earth are the SFL meeting on Friday? To admit Sevco to any part of the SFL on Friday involves tearing up the rulebook. To admit Sevco to SFL1 involves threading the torn out pages of the rulebook on a string for urgent use in what we used to call the cludgie. This is all totally obvious.

Iâ€™ve just read the Hamilton Accies statement. It is as if we are going to see a total restructuring of Scottish football in the next 3 weeks. Does anyone believe that can happen? I donâ€™t see how, but Iâ€™ve been wrong before, and for whatever reason Regan and Doncaster are clearly truly desperate men.

Which brings me to the point of this post. Why are Regan and Doncaster so desperate that they will pay absolutely any price, tell any lies, bend or break their own rules, to â€œsaveâ€ Sevco? They are both English, so presumably not born with the â€œfollow followâ€ mentality which afflicts the Scottish media to the point of slavering sycophancy. So what is the real reason? I can only think that they are pawns in a much bigger game, and stand to be very well rewarded at the end of all this. If that is the case, I would love to know who the real power broker is. SDM? And what is the game, exactly? Are there â€œbigâ€ people who are so completely compromised that jail time looms large, and all of this is part of some desperate plan to save their skins? How does inserting an insolvent Sevco into the SFL help anyoneâ€™s cause?

Or is there another explanation? 

The whole game has been now found to be corrupt to the core and I cannot see how the Scottish Game is ever going to recover from the disgusting mess Rangers and the governing bodies have created.

http://checkthis.com/vvnn :rofl:


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## smange (Jul 9, 2012)

Page 65 of FIFA Statutes reads:

*VIII. SPORTING INTEGRITY​*Article​​​​*19 Principle of promotion and relegation*​*
1​*​​​​A clubâ€™s entitlement to take part in a domestic league championship
shall depend principally on sporting merit. A club shall qualify fora domestic league championship by remaining in a certain divisionor by being promoted or relegated to another at the end of a season.
​*2​*​​​​In addition to qualification on sporting merit, a clubâ€™s participationin a domestic league championship may be subject to other criteriawithin the scope of the licensing procedure, whereby the emphasisis on sporting, infrastructural, administrative, legal and financialconsiderations. Licensing decisions must be able to be examinedby the Memberâ€™s body of appeal.
​*3​*​​​​Altering the legal form or company structure of a club to facilitateits qualification on sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence fora domestic league championship, to the detriment of the integrityof a sports competition, is prohibited. This includes, for example,changing the headquarters, changing the name or transferringstakeholdings between different clubs. Prohibitive decisions must beable to be examined by the Memberâ€™s body of appeal.
​*4​*​​​​Each Member is responsible for deciding national issues, which maynot be delegated to the Leagues. Each Confederation is responsiblefor deciding issues involving more than one Association concerningits own territory. FIFA is responsible for deciding international​issues involving more than one Confederation.

Full document http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/09/75/14/fifa_statutes_072008_en.pdf

Quite sure FIFA may have something to say if the SFA/SPL try to put Rangers straight into 1st Division


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2012)

Interesting that the SFA have denied International clearance for the 'transferred' Old Rangers players.
What's their game?


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## StuartD (Jul 9, 2012)

smange said:



			Page 65 of FIFA Statutes reads:

*VIII. SPORTING INTEGRITY​
*Article​
*19 Principle of promotion and relegation*​
*
1​
*A clubâ€™s entitlement to take part in a domestic league championship
shall depend principally on sporting merit. A club shall qualify fora domestic league championship by remaining in a certain divisionor by being promoted or relegated to another at the end of a season.
​
*2​
*In addition to qualification on sporting merit, a clubâ€™s participationin a domestic league championship may be subject to other criteriawithin the scope of the licensing procedure, whereby the emphasisis on sporting, infrastructural, administrative, legal and financialconsiderations. Licensing decisions must be able to be examinedby the Memberâ€™s body of appeal.
​
*3​
*Altering the legal form or company structure of a club to facilitateits qualification on sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence fora domestic league championship, to the detriment of the integrityof a sports competition, is prohibited. This includes, for example,changing the headquarters, changing the name or transferringstakeholdings between different clubs. Prohibitive decisions must beable to be examined by the Memberâ€™s body of appeal.
​
*4​
*Each Member is responsible for deciding national issues, which maynot be delegated to the Leagues. Each Confederation is responsiblefor deciding issues involving more than one Association concerningits own territory. FIFA is responsible for deciding international​
issues involving more than one Confederation.

Full document http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/09/75/14/fifa_statutes_072008_en.pdf

Quite sure FIFA may have something to say if the SFA/SPL try to put Rangers straight into 1st Division


Click to expand...

This appeared on twitter from a journalist (possibly JaneLewis)

Point 4 states that Each member is responsiblefor deciding national issues. If SFA decide that Div1 is correct, FIFA will not get involved. It would still be seen as a demotion for Newco.

As for SFA holding on to players registration, this is perfectly normal and was probably to be expected.

The process involves buying club asking their FA to obtain player registration. buying club FA asks SFA who in turn  ask oldco/newco. Newco object so the SFA  hold onto registration. SFA will see advice from FIFA and UK employment law. THe advice will be that Newco don't have a leg to stand on and SFA will then hand over registration. THe SFA are quite rightly being cautious


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## Dodger (Jul 10, 2012)

Sevco....the gift that truly does keep giving.

Gazza pledges to play for them next season.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

One of the Andy Gorams will be next to say he'll play no doubt,mind you that may not be a bad move as the fat git will fill the goal.

Brightened up my dull morning drive no end did that.:whoo:


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## Val (Jul 10, 2012)

StuartD said:



			This appeared on twitter from a journalist (possibly JaneLewis)

Point 4 states that Each member is responsiblefor deciding national issues. If SFA decide that Div1 is correct, FIFA will not get involved. *It would still be seen as a demotion for Newco.
*
As for SFA holding on to players registration, this is perfectly normal and was probably to be expected.

The process involves buying club asking their FA to obtain player registration. buying club FA asks SFA who in turn  ask oldco/newco. Newco object so the SFA  hold onto registration. SFA will see advice from FIFA and UK employment law. THe advice will be that Newco don't have a leg to stand on and SFA will then hand over registration. THe SFA are quite rightly being cautious
		
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To be demoted you have to be there in the first place, Newco are not there so it's not demotion or punishment. If anything it's promotion 2 leagues above where they should be.


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## smange (Jul 10, 2012)

StuartD said:



			This appeared on twitter from a journalist (possibly JaneLewis)

Point 4 states that Each member is responsiblefor deciding national issues. If SFA decide that Div1 is correct, FIFA will not get involved. It would still be seen as a demotion for Newco.

As for SFA holding on to players registration, this is perfectly normal and was probably to be expected.

The process involves buying club asking their FA to obtain player registration. buying club FA asks SFA who in turn ask oldco/newco. Newco object so the SFA hold onto registration. SFA will see advice from FIFA and UK employment law. THe advice will be that Newco don't have a leg to stand on and SFA will then hand over registration. THe SFA are quite rightly being cautious
		
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Im reading it differently from you Stuart as I read point 4 as relating to the National team, as in the leagues cant decide issues relating to the national side, any major issues have to be decided by the ruling body, in this case the SFA.

Maybe im reading it wrong though


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 10, 2012)

I saw the Gazza thing.....almost made me cry.







with laughter


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## thecraw (Jul 10, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I saw the Gazza thing.....almost made me cry.







with laughter
		
Click to expand...


We all know what happened the last time Gazza turned up to help someone!!!!!


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## Dodger (Jul 10, 2012)

Former Rangers keeper McShagger in talks with Besiktas.

Can't believe a good EPL team are not going to take him,he's a good stopper.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 10, 2012)

I would say he is one of Britains top two keepers at the moment.
He must be asking for too much money.
The E&WPL can't afford him now.


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## Dodger (Jul 10, 2012)

The now 'Big Gers' take revenge on them.

My day just keeps getting better.....payback for the ba#t#rds after what they did all those years back.

http://www.berwickrangersfc.co.uk/f-news/news.html


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## smange (Jul 10, 2012)

Dodger said:



			The now 'Big Gers' take revenge on them.

My day just keeps getting better.....payback for the ba#t#rds after what they did all those years back.

http://www.berwickrangersfc.co.uk/f-news/news.html

Click to expand...

Go on the 'Big Gers', wont feel bad giving them my money on saturday for the pre-season friendly now then Dodger:thup:

Thats if and only if the 'wee Gers' are in the right and proper division after fridays vote otherwise I wont be attending that or any other game relating to Scottish football in the future


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## Dodger (Jul 10, 2012)

*Scathing statement from Clyde tonight. Regan and others credibility cannot possibly recover from this.

Regan's position is untenable. I wouldn't put another penny into the SFA's pockets until he's gone.*

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/statement.html


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## StuartD (Jul 10, 2012)

Valentino said:



			To be demoted you have to be there in the first place, Newco are not there so it's not demotion or punishment. If anything it's promotion 2 leagues above where they should be.
		
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Sevco currently own all the assets of RFC. The only thing they do not have is the sfa registrtion/license. In a div1  scenario that would be handed to the newco as stated by the sfa. From a footballing perspective that would mean RFC being the same club continuing under a different corporate identity. Many clubs throughout Europe have done this and are viewed as exactly the same club by FIFA/UEFA.Therefore Div1 will be seen as demotion and punishment for RFC in a footballing perspective.

Clubs have done a newco switch  and not suffered any punishments from their home FA. THere are no rules in most nations that state a newco scenario means starting from the bottom. Indeed in this country the only issue is that there are no rules of transfer from SPL to SFL(unless through relegation) and that is why newco must look to div3. UEFA have reconised the potential benifits of a newco switch to shed debt and therefore have brought in the three year rule. If all newco's started from the bottom again then there would have been little need to bring this rule in


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## Val (Jul 10, 2012)

Stuart I think we are aware that newco bought the assets but don't have the registration so they can't be demoted because they are not there.

That's a fact my friend, like it or not, you cannot relegate/demote/punish something that doesn't exist.


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## StuartD (Jul 10, 2012)

Dodger said:



*Scathing statement from Clyde tonight. Regan and others credibility cannot possibly recover from this.

Regan's position is untenable. I wouldn't put another penny into the SFA's pockets until he's gone.*

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/statement.html

Click to expand...

Always been a good read these statements. You can tell it's a fans group in charge. Nice to see that there website seems to be coping too.

So after getting rejected by the SPL, Charles Green was quoted "We shall now apply to the SFL and play in whatever league they see fit" Lo and behold it looks as if he has never made an application.

Shock ***** Horror:mmm:


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## StuartD (Jul 10, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Stuart I think we are aware that newco bought the assets but don't have the registration so they can't be demoted because they are not there.

That's a fact my friend, like it or not, you cannot relegate/demote/punish something that doesn't exist.
		
Click to expand...

Read my post. in the Div1 scenario it would have to have been transferred. Sevco cant be demoted as they are/will never be a football club.THe registration is for the football club. If that is transferred the football club is a going concern in FIFA eyes, whether its transferred to you,me or sevco. If its not transferred then the club is dead


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## Val (Jul 10, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Read my post. in the Div1 scenario it would have to have been transferred. Sevco cant be demoted as they are/will never be a football club.THe registration is for the football club. If that is transferred the football club is a going concern in FIFA eyes, whether its transferred to you,me or sevco. If its not transferred then the club is dead
		
Click to expand...

I read your post and can only comment on what is current rather than what might happen, what ,ight happen is all speculation and we have had that aplenty for months.

HMRC have done a deal
Confident a CVA will be agreed

Etc etc etc

Rangers no longer exist in football terms so cannot be put anywhere, that is the bottom line currently.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 11, 2012)

Not good news.
It is starting to look like an 11 team SPL for next season.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 11, 2012)

Story going around that The Proclaimers are going to re-write Letter from America.


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## 6inchcup (Jul 11, 2012)

i heard they were trying to buy an ENGLISH lower division club and playing in the football league,i heard BURY,TRANMERE  AND ONE OF THE SHEFFIELD clubs have been sounded out.


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## AMcC (Jul 12, 2012)

Heard yesterday that the proposed new goal line technology will not be available to Rangers as the manufacturers have confirmed it does not work with jackets used as goal posts.      :whoo:


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## Dodger (Jul 12, 2012)

The situation summed up perfectly here...

http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/the-last-drink-in-the-last-chance-saloon/


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2012)

I have a friend who works for Sky and she said that many Scottish football fans are cancelling their subscriptions.


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## Val (Jul 12, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have a friend who works for Sky and she said that many Scottish football fans are cancelling their subscriptions.
		
Click to expand...

Many like me cancel ESPN over the close season anyway.


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## smange (Jul 12, 2012)

Starting to sound like they gonna get into the 1st division:angry:

Hope Scottish football is ready for the mass exodus of fans from the terraces.

They have done a poll on the Dunfermline fans website and 58% of the 1300 who have answered so far say they will never be back at a game in Scotland. I know some will have voted on more than one occasion and there will be some who wont stick to their word but say that accounts for the 300 that leave 1000 fans of which 58% wont be back at a game.

I know Dunfermline cant afford to lose that percentage of its support and I guess it will be similar numbers throughout the rest of Scottish football, so I would think that alone will spell financial meltdown for Scottish football and something the powers that be should really take note of before trying to bully every "wee team" into allowing an easy route back for Newco.

*NO* to Newco in the 1st Division is a must


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## StuartD (Jul 12, 2012)

just got the following text with an update on clubs voting intentions

Annan Athletic -- support divided 50/50 One says aye and one says nuh

Elgin City -- Awaiting confirmation from Ibrox that its ok for one supporter to take his dog into the stadium.

Montrose Support currently holidaying in Torremolinos all efforts to reach him by text have failed as he has an O2 mobile

Forfar Athletic -- Awaiting confirmation from McLaren the baker that they can supply sufficient quantity of bridies, before committing their vote.

Peterhead-- Fits it a' aboot like?


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## 6inchcup (Jul 12, 2012)

you have got to look on the bright side,less wife beating,knife fights etc i bet the police are over the moon.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2012)

Can anyone confirm that newco have not applied to join the SFL.

If that is the case, it is a total establishment fit up.
Jings the SFA are worse than FIFA.

The only other option is that we are going for a season with only 11 teams in the SPL.


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## StuartD (Jul 12, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Can anyone confirm that newco have not applied to join the SFL.

If that is the case, it is a total establishment fit up.
Jings the SFA are worse than FIFA.

The only other option is that we are going for a season with only 11 teams in the SPL.
		
Click to expand...

I believe they have now applied but not given the SFL any information with the application

Have a look at the latest clyde statement below

*The Board of Clyde Football Club has received the papers in advance of tomorrows SFL meeting and will consider the Heads of Terms supplied. We continue to have the same fundamental concerns about this process, however the overriding concern is a point which we have made to the SFL.

We have received absolutely no information on the organisation Sevco Scotland Ltd whom we are being asked, and encouraged, to vote straight into the top division of the SFL under resolution 2 and possibly into SFL 3 under Resolution 1. We have no business plan, list of directors, details of ownership, statement of capital adequacy or any proposals relating to the provision of any similar information in the near future. David Longmuir has clearly stated that he will distribute all the information he has got or is able to distribute.

Whilst the notion that there is a leap of faith to be taken in terms of some of the matters, there can be no leap of faith with something as fundamental as knowing who is being admitted to the league. The very fact that there is no information of any kind being made available on this company undermines the authorities efforts to direct the new entrant to SFL 1. It is actually impossible for any member of the SFL to make an objective assessment of the proposals under Resolutions 1 and 2 and could be seen as irresponsible to support either proposal in such a void of information.

It is our hope that some credibility can be introduced to this process and we would ask that whoever holds information on Sevco Scotland Ltd provides a full and detailed pack to David Longmuir in order that even at the eleventh hour the SFL clubs are given reason to support any Resolutions that they might wish to vote on. We have to assume that the SFA and SPL hold such information otherwise they would not press so heavily for entry to SFL 1. 

If a leap of faith is to be taken, then in the current circumstances it will be taken blindly and the only logical outcome of taking that kind of risk would be to enter them to SFL 3, where, should any subsequent issues arise they will be contained within the lowest league rather than disrupting the top flight of the SFL.

The other matter that is entirely outside the gift of the SFL is the need for the SPL clubs to confirm that contrary to what Neil Doncaster stated on their behalf, the SPL will meet its obligations to the SFL under the Settlement Agreement. 

*
The questions being asked are the same as the ones rangers fans have been asking for months


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## Dodger (Jul 12, 2012)

Peterheed ken fit it's a' aboot Stuart...

Peterhead expressed surprise that a 16-team top-flight, which had been rejected as "unattractive and potentially undeliverable" in the SPL's own strategic plan in April 2011, was now being proposed "a mere 36 hours prior to Friday's meeting".
"Whilst we have always stated that we would welcome proposals for league reconstruction independent of the Rangers crisis, we are left with a sense of wonderment at many of the newly proposed changes to the league - changes that were deemed wholly unworkable prior to newco Rangers application to join the SFL after expulsion from the SPL," they said in a website statement.

"Although we are to come under severe pressure from bodies outwith the SFL to accept these fast-tracked changes to accommodate a newco team and to hail this proposal as a 'blueprint to safeguard the future of Scottish football', we must retain our stance and those of the majority of our fans to vote no.

"We still believe that to maintain fairness in our game and to restore faith in Scottish football, there is no alternative but to admit a newco team into Division Three.

"We understand the ramifications of this as laid out by the SFA and understand that there will be financial implications for all clubs should this be the outcome.

"However, although there may be tough times ahead for Scottish football, we believe we can weather the storm."


:thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2012)

With this lack of information do you wonder if this is a Green and White plot to get one of the Sheffield clubs into the SPL and then sell of the Ibrox property.


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## Dodger (Jul 12, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			With this lack of information do you wonder if this is a Green and White plot to get one of the Sheffield clubs into the SPL and then sell of the Ibrox property.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty certain the rules changed a few years back to state that basically you had to play in England to be a member club,not sure about the other way around though.

Interesting day ahead tomorrow.


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## Dodger (Jul 12, 2012)

If Sevco get voted into Div 3 then everyone connected with them should be kissing the Chairmen's backsides of each and every team with gratitude.

Very few details about them to support their application.If this was any other 'club' they would be laughed out of the meeting.

As it stands this 'club' should not be allowed to be playing football anywhere next season.


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## Val (Jul 12, 2012)

Dodger said:



			If Sevco get voted into Div 3 then everyone connected with them should be kissing the Chairmen's backsides of each and every team with gratitude.

Very few details about them to support their application.If this was any other 'club' they would be laughed out of the meeting.

As it stands this 'club' should not be allowed to be playing football anywhere next season.
		
Click to expand...

I think there's a possibility we won't see them next season


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## StuartD (Jul 13, 2012)

Valentino said:



			I think there's a possibility we won't see them next season
		
Click to expand...

Thinking the same.

The SFL are about to call Regan's bluff and vote for div3. Will Regan then allow the "slow lingering death"? Why has Regan not reconvined Appellate Tribunal to replace the transfer embrgo sanction that was overturned weeks ago?

Lots of chat that Regan will reconvine Appellate Tribunal and suspend Rangers for 1 year if the vote goes in favour of div3.
Will he then be daft enough to try to parachute them into an expanded SPL in a years time? This would stop the TV companies walking away as RFC would only be away for a year. Doubt they would last a year out of the game anyway. Not even sure if the could last a year in the game!!!


Interesting tweet from  BBCLiamMcleod.
"Dunfermline chairman tells bbc not to rule out RFC getting back into SPL if SFL vote for div3."

Is that why the SPL put the decision on club twelve back?
Surely not!!


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Thinking the same.

The SFL are about to call Regan's bluff and vote for div3. Will Regan then allow the "slow lingering death"? Why has Regan not reconvined Appellate Tribunal to replace the transfer embrgo sanction that was overturned weeks ago?

Lots of chat that Regan will reconvine Appellate Tribunal and suspend Rangers for 1 year if the vote goes in favour of div3.
Will he then be daft enough to try to parachute them into an expanded SPL in a years time? This would stop the TV companies walking away as RFC would only be away for a year. Doubt they would last a year out of the game anyway. Not even sure if the could last a year in the game!!!


Interesting tweet from  BBCLiamMcleod.
"Dunfermline chairman tells bbc not to rule out RFC getting back into SPL if SFL vote for div3."

Is that why the SPL put the decision on club twelve back?
Surely not!!
		
Click to expand...

Stuart,I am hearing strong rumours that you lot will end up in the SPL - If that were to happen then the game truly is finished in Scotland.

Corruption of the highest order.


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## SS2 (Jul 13, 2012)

Once again in Scotland it is politics and money that are driving the agenda.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2012)

In the SPL with a 50 point penalty and a transfer embargo, that would sort the 'dealmongers' out.


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## Val (Jul 13, 2012)

As much as Im a football fan and ex season book holder at Celtic Park (gave it up after season 2010/2011 when my boy turned 16) I'm actually pretty glad my interest has diminished a bit. The game is fecked totally and if Rangers do get back into the SPL then I think it will create more damage to the game than sticking them in Div3


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## Andy808 (Jul 13, 2012)

Looking like they will be in SFL 3 next season as they are only 3 votes away from it with only about 4 clubs voting for them to go into SFL1. I can't see them being down there long but you may was well carve Cetics name on the trophy for the next 4 years. The only thing this will do is to let one of the other SPL teams have a crack in Europe for a few years.


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## StuartD (Jul 13, 2012)

*** Update ***

The result of this morning vote by SFL clubs is now known. Statement soon. Stewart Regan is currently informing delegates on how  they voted


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## Andy808 (Jul 13, 2012)

BBC reporting 4 more clubs have voted against Rangers going into SPL 1 so it's SPL3 for them.


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## Monty_Brown (Jul 13, 2012)

Andy808 said:



			BBC reporting 4 more clubs have voted against Rangers going into SPL 1 so it's SPL3 for them.
		
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Followed by a new proposal for another new structure with a 48-team top tier?

Hope the SL3 yes vote is true. Scottish fans deserve better than the stitch-up that the authorities have tried to engineer.


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## Andy808 (Jul 13, 2012)

Annan Athletic chairman *Henry McLelland* says the newco scenario has happened before and the precedent is that Rangers should start again in Division Three
		
Click to expand...





			"In the last four years we found Gretna in the situation where they entered administration and then liquidation. There was no-one there who could rescue them; so a place was vacant and we got that," says *McLelland*. 
"Livingston found themselves in a similar scenario and again, the SFL demoted Livingston from Division One to Division Three.
"Now, it's quite simple: we cannot make exceptions because it's Glasgow Rangers."
		
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Looks like the SFA have grown a pair at last.


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## Slab (Jul 13, 2012)

Division Three it is then

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18813407

Looks like that's it.......or is it? tune in next week


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## Iaing (Jul 13, 2012)

Vote result:
Division 3


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## Val (Jul 13, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Vote result:
Division 3
		
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You need to change that sad face pal


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## Iaing (Jul 13, 2012)

Valentino said:



			You need to change that sad face pal
		
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Martin, I'll change it when I'm sure the goalposts won't be moved..
I reckon there's still some jiggery pokery to come yet!


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Martin, I'll change it when I'm sure the goalposts won't be moved..
I reckon there's still some jiggery pokery to come yet!
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully Spartans will put in a legal challenge.


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2012)

Hallelujah.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2012)

I somehow don't think that this is the end of the story.


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## AMcC (Jul 13, 2012)

At least now we can start rebuilding our great football club, no one will be able to say our punishment wasn't adequate, no more muddied waters, we got what every non Rangers fan was desparate to invoke.

How many clubs will still be there as we come back up through the leagues.  WATP


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## Val (Jul 13, 2012)

Alan, if you are honest enough you will know in your heart of hearts that morally it was the only place they could go. I hope we can draw a line under This now and we on but I doubt that will be the case.

There's plenty to run yet


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

AMcC said:



			At least now we can start rebuilding our great football club, no one will be able to say our punishment wasn't adequate, no more muddied waters, we got what every non Rangers fan was desparate to invoke.

How many clubs will still be there as we come back up through the leagues.  WATP
		
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What punishments? You are where you because of A, administration and B, liquidation. 

WATP? What an absolutely moronic phrase. We are travelling to Peterhead?


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## AMcC (Jul 13, 2012)

Valentino said:



			There's plenty to run yet
		
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On that front ICTFC have called a board meeting for this weekend to discuss the serious financial implication of today's decision.


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## Val (Jul 13, 2012)

AMcC said:



			On that front ICTFC have called a board meeting for this weekend to discuss the serious financial implication of today's decision.
		
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Noticed their chairmans quote on the BBC site


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## AMcC (Jul 13, 2012)

chris661 said:



			What punishments? You are where you because of A, administration and B, liquidation. 

WATP? What an absolutely moronic phrase. We are travelling to Peterhead?
		
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We are where we are because the rule book clearly had not been written to handle this particular scenario.  Although our club has been ruined by two men with huge egos.

How about RTID any less moronic ???


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

AMcC said:



			How about RTID any less moronic ???
		
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Yes, tell me exactly what WATP means?


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## brendy (Jul 13, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Yes, tell me exactly what WATP means?
		
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We Avoid Tax Payments apparently these days.


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## NWJocko (Jul 13, 2012)

AMcC said:



			At least now we can start rebuilding our great football club, no one will be able to say our punishment wasn't adequate, no more muddied waters, we got what every non Rangers fan was desparate to invoke.

How many clubs will still be there as we come back up through the leagues.  WATP
		
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And what punishment do rangers fan think they should have?

As one of the sfl club chairmen said, there is a precedent, Gretna.  They got exactly the same punishment, for exactly the same end game (liquidation).

You're WATP p*sh is exactly what's wrong in scottish football ( Celtic every bit as guilty).


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

brendy said:



			We Avoid Tax Payments apparently these days.
		
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:rofl: That wont go down too well in the seaside league.


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## AMcC (Jul 13, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Noticed their chairmans quote on the BBC site
		
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"But this has now been thrown in to disarray by this decision. This is a sad day for all clubs in Scotland."

Mr Cameron added: "None of us will escape the financial fallout from this. There was an opportunity on the table, in terms of the joint agreement tabled at todayâ€™s meeting for us all to come together and a genuine willingness to improve the game substantially over the coming years. But it now looks as though this will once again be kicked back in to the long grass. A once in a lifetime opportunity to bring forward change may well have been lost.

"The directors of  ICTFC are fully aware of the financial implications of this latest decision on Newco. The loss of either our fans or our sponsors was never going to leave any of the clubs in Scotland in a healthy financial position and for some this could spell the end of football as we know it.

"Certain clubs in the SFL have perceived the financial information they were receiving as a 'big stick' to beat them into accepting Newco in the First Division. This was definitely not the case, as far as I am concerned. What they were being told was the reality of the situation."

The chairman concluded: "We will be convening an emergency board meeting over the weekend to discuss the very serious financial implications for us as a club going forward."

Sounds like some of the SPL chairmen didn't believe the SFL would vote us in to Div 3.


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## Iaing (Jul 13, 2012)

brendy said:



			We Avoid Tax Payments apparently these days.
		
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:clap:


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## NWJocko (Jul 13, 2012)

AMcC said:



			"But this has now been thrown in to disarray by this decision. This is a sad day for all clubs in Scotland."

Mr Cameron added: "None of us will escape the financial fallout from this. There was an opportunity on the table, in terms of the joint agreement tabled at todayâ€™s meeting for us all to come together and a genuine willingness to improve the game substantially over the coming years. But it now looks as though this will once again be kicked back in to the long grass. A once in a lifetime opportunity to bring forward change may well have been lost.

"The directors of  ICTFC are fully aware of the financial implications of this latest decision on Newco. The loss of either our fans or our sponsors was never going to leave any of the clubs in Scotland in a healthy financial position and for some this could spell the end of football as we know it.

"Certain clubs in the SFL have perceived the financial information they were receiving as a 'big stick' to beat them into accepting Newco in the First Division. This was definitely not the case, as far as I am concerned. What they were being told was the reality of the situation."

The chairman concluded: "We will be convening an emergency board meeting over the weekend to discuss the very serious financial implications for us as a club going forward."

Sounds like some of the SPL chairmen didn't believe the SFL would vote us in to Div 3.
		
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If Inverness' business model relies on 3 trips from rangers every year they have far, far bigger issues than newco being in div3. 

If I was a fan I'd be demanding to know why the solvency of the club is so reliant on rangers!!?


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## Andy808 (Jul 13, 2012)

There is a rule book Alan. Gretna have been demoted to SL3 for the same reasons and so has another club, Inverness I think. There hasn't been a witch hunt on Rangers it's been carried out according to the regulations laid down by the SFA.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jul 13, 2012)

Sky Sports would like to apologise to all subscribers for wrongly advertising they could watch Rangers in 3D. They meant Rangers in D3. :whoo:


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## AMcC (Jul 13, 2012)

chris661 said:



			:rofl: That wont go down too well in the seaside league.
		
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I do like to be beside the seaside


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## AMcC (Jul 13, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			If Inverness' business model relies on 3 trips from rangers every year they have far, far bigger issues than newco being in div3. 

If I was a fan I'd be demanding to know why the solvency of the club is so reliant on rangers!!?
		
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I hope that they wouldn't run their business that way, but it is football and who knows sometimes ??  I think the deeper story may be sponsors renegotiating their deals.


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

AMcC said:



			I do like to be beside the seaside 

Click to expand...

Just as well because as you are seemingly RTID then you have at least one season visiting Arbroath and Peterhead etc. Although I genuinely believe we will witness another "insolvency event" before long. I wonder if sevco will be asked to put up a bond the same as Livi were......


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## AMcC (Jul 13, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Just as well because as you are seemingly RTID then you have at least one season visiting Arbroath and Peterhead etc. Although I genuinely believe we will witness another "insolvency event" before long. I wonder if sevco will be asked to put up a bond the same as Livi were......
		
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Chris,I was only saying that as I stay in Irvine (Scotlands New Town by the sea ) as it used to be known  :whoo:

Although I am sure most of the away games will be sold out, with the possible exception of Queens Park.


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2012)

It still amazes me,actually knowing tons of Huns it really doesn't,that they talk of a 'punishment'.

There has been no punishment bar the 10 deduction.

The club is deed so I will repeat it again,there has been no punishment bar the 10 point deduction.


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

Dodger said:



			It still amazes me,actually knowing tons of Huns it really doesn't,that they talk of a 'punishment'.

There has been no punishment bar the 10 deduction.

The club is deed so I will repeat it again,there has been no punishment bar the 10 point deduction.
		
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Even that was only due to administration.


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

AMcC said:



			Although I am sure most of the away games will be sold out, with the possible exception of Queens Park.
		
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Really so the thought of travelling up to Elgin or Peterhead in the middle of a freezing December wednesday will draw a bumper crowd? I think sevco will be lucky to sell 3000 season books with crowds of less than 5000 at best in iBrokes.


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2012)

chris661;619642

 said:
			
		


			Even that was only due to administration.
		
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Exactly.

The years of cheating appear to have been brushed under the carpet so far not to mention anything else they should be facing penalties for.

I have to laugh that they are trying to reconstruct Scottish Football in a 2 week period.

The game is a total laughing stock and the dodgy clowns in charge are just that....hooky clowns.


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## Iaing (Jul 13, 2012)

What gets to me is the hypocrisy of the SPL clubs who voted no to the newco and are now ******** their breeks because their plan of railroading the SFL clubs into putting them into Division 1 didn't work.
At least Johnston at Killie set his cards on the table from the outset.

Utter hypocrisy!


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

Elgin have just released a statement tonight.













For every penny sevco spend they will spend two. :rofl:


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## Fish (Jul 14, 2012)

I've not looked back over a lot of pages but, isn't there a question hanging still over accessing Ibrox and if so isn't saying they are now playing in div 3 a bit premature if they don't have a home ground?


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## Dodger (Jul 14, 2012)

Just heard Fat Sally claiming they have been 'punished' severely now.

No you haven't you utter clown.

Dear me,are they all this bloody dim?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2012)

How many fans will turn up for the first game at Ibrox, 5,000 or 50,000.
I think it will be nearer 50,000.
Â£10 a ticket kids Â£5 if they have any sense.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2012)

Breaking news....The SFA have yet to issue Newco a football club licence. Without a licence they cannot play any organised football.

They say issuing the licence is dependant on paying the oldco's footballing debts to other clubs such as Arsenal and Hearts.


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## CMAC (Jul 14, 2012)

do you think 50,000 for the novelty factor? I reckon a few weeks of abysmal 3rd div football standards and the interest will wane very quickly


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## chris661 (Jul 14, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			How many fans will turn up for the first game at Ibrox, 5,000 or 50,000.
I think it will be nearer 50,000.
Â£10 a ticket kids Â£5 if they have any sense.
		
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DarthVega said:



			do you think 50,000 for the novelty factor? I reckon a few weeks of abysmal 3rd div football standards and the interest will wane very quickly
		
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Agreed and as they have only sold approx 650 season tickets they might not even exist next year in any shape.



Doon frae Troon said:



			Breaking news....The SFA have yet to issue Newco a football club licence. Without a licence they cannot play any organised football.

They say issuing the licence is dependant on paying the oldco's footballing debts to other clubs such as Arsenal and Hearts.
		
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Hardly breaking news the big thing now is the AGM of the busted flush that is the SPL. It will be dissolved next year I think as it doesn't work, hopefully with three divisions of 12 or maybe 14 but with relegation and promotion as well somehow.


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## wrighty1874 (Jul 14, 2012)

Sky Sports would like to apologise to all subcribers for misleading adverts,that they could watch Rangers in 3D....they meant D3.


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## wrighty1874 (Jul 14, 2012)

Rangers have finally got their move to England....Berwick away!!


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## sydney greenstreet (Jul 14, 2012)

Rangers fans motto WATP= Were Away To Peterhead.


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## chris661 (Jul 14, 2012)

Fish said:



			I've not looked back over a lot of pages but, isn't there a question hanging still over accessing Ibrox and if so isn't saying they are now playing in div 3 a bit premature if they don't have a home ground?
		
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Read a thing today saying that ticketus or the parent corporation were the people behind zues capital which is chuckie greens funding and once they get their money back then he gets to sell the assets for his bonus. If that is true then it really will be the end of sevco/rangers.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 15, 2012)

Fridays tune of the day.

'Todays the day the teddy bears have their pitch nicked'


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## Paul_Stewart (Jul 16, 2012)

One serious question.  If the new Rangers are not liable for any of the debts because of the liquidation etc and have had to apply to the SFL as a new company, how the hell can they claim the original players are their assets and hence block any attempts for them to leave?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 16, 2012)

Green is citing toupe employment laws [nothing to do with Trump].
As I understand it the worker is perfectly entitled to make a choice of working with or leaving the new company.


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## StuartD (Jul 16, 2012)

Andy808 said:



			There is a rule book Alan. Gretna have been demoted to SL3 for the same reasons and so has another club, Inverness I think. There hasn't been a witch hunt on Rangers it's been carried out according to the regulations laid down by the SFA.
		
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There has been no precedent for this situation. The only thing in any rule book is the SPL's where it states that any Newco would be judged on its own merits. There is nothing in SFA or SFL rule book about Newco's. Gretna and Livingston (It was not Inverness) have never gone into liquidation and set up as a newco. Both were in admin in SFL1 with few players left so the SFL asked for a bond as security in case they disappeared. When it was not paid they were placed in SFL3. Had RFC got into SFL1 and were asked/not asked to pay such bond only then comparison between the Gretna/Livingston situation with RFC.


It appears that finally the end game has been reached and Dundee are in SPL and RFC are in SFL3. 

Is it a punishment or not for RFC? 

I can see why some donâ€™t view it is a punishment and see it all as a consequence of going into liquidation, to which I can se their point. However a consequence could also have been playing in the SPL had we been accepted. 

Does it really matter about punishments or lack of(EBT excepted as it is an entirely different case altogether)?Sporting integrity, which we all have called for has won and RFC are in SFL3. Whether you want to call it punishment or a consequence, the club is just now a shell with very little left. Itâ€™s time for Stewart Regan, on his way out the door, to hand over the playing licence and for everybody to move on and let those involved try to rebuild the club.

I am about to increase the number of Season ticket holders by 2 after yesterdays fans meeting with John Brown. His time to put up or shut up has passed. Still not convinced by Charles Green but the time has come to do something.


Dodger keep that space on your drive for my motor on 25[SUP]th[/SUP] August when we come to play the "big" rangers :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 17, 2012)

Pity Glasgow Warriors spent all that money into Scotstoun.
They could have put a bid in to lease Ibrox of worked out a groundshare.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 17, 2012)

Looks like Super Pally is going to get his knuckles rapped for demanding to know the names of the SFA members comittee who imposed the transfer embargo.
So D3 with the manager in the stand.


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## Iaing (Jul 17, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Looks like Super Pally is going to get his knuckles rapped for demanding to know the names of the SFA members comittee who imposed the transfer embargo.
So D3 with the manager in the stand.
		
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The way things are going McCoist'll need to get the boots looked oot.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 18, 2012)

What do the wee yellow stars mean on the header of this post.
I see there are five but it only has one. Are the curtains not matching or is the food not so good.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jul 18, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What do the wee yellow stars mean on the header of this post.
I see there are five but it only has one. Are the curtains not matching or is the food not so good.
		
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Think it might be about Rangers having to remove a few stars from their jerseys :whoo:


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## Val (Jul 18, 2012)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			Think it might be about Rangers having to remove a few stars from their jerseys :whoo:
		
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It won't happen, they don't have the balls to.

Are you playing the Glenbervie open big man? I'm sure it was your name I saw on the draw sheet today online.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 18, 2012)

Caught the back end of a news report about a businessman investing 
Â£1m into newco.
Jings they have stopped scraping the barrel now. They have started to look under it.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Jul 18, 2012)

Valentino said:



			It won't happen, they don't have the balls to.

Are you playing the Glenbervie open big man? I'm sure it was your name I saw on the draw sheet today online.
		
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I'll be there, not quite sure you would call it playing though 

I'll need to look for the draw, don't know my time yet, think I requested about 10am.


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## Val (Jul 18, 2012)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			I'll be there, not quite sure you would call it playing though 

I'll need to look for the draw, don't know my time yet, think I requested about 10am.
		
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Aye I think you were around then, Im out at 11. Here's hoping for weeks of dry weather untill then


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 20, 2012)

We have three little gold stars now.......someone must know what it means?

I see the SFL are trying to sell a 25 match TV deal based on New Rangers participation.

Fantastic, one door closes and another one opens
There is nothing so impressive as a Scotsman on the make.


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## Bomber69 (Jul 20, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Aye I think you were around then, Im out at 11. Here's hoping for weeks of dry weather untill then 

Click to expand...

Divots Galore then after you pair of Chompers dig it up:rofl:


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## Val (Jul 20, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Divots Galore then after you pair of Chompers dig it up:rofl:
		
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I replace them (if I find them).


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## HughJars (Jul 20, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			We have three little gold stars now.......someone must know what it means?

*I see the SFL are trying to sell a 25 match TV deal based on New Rangers participation.

Fantastic, one door closes and another one opens*
There is nothing so impressive as a Scotsman on the make.
		
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Aye, who'd have guessed that eh? that Sevco dropping to the bottom league would be GOOD for Scottish football? Oh yeah, I remember now, just about everybody except Rangers fans and the Glasgow media.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 20, 2012)

New Rangers have accepted a 12 month transfer embargo.

All that angst built up against them.
If they had accepted it with grace 3 months ago they would probably be in a better place now.


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## Val (Jul 21, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			New Rangers have accepted a 12 month transfer embargo.

All that angst built up against them.
If they had accepted it with grace 3 months ago they would probably be in a better place now.
		
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Karma is amazing, I see STV have said they will now start calling them Rangers rather than new Rangers now :rofl:


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## Chrimbo (Jul 21, 2012)

It's not over yet ............

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18929983


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 21, 2012)

I always felt that Glasgow Rangers would have been a better name than The Rangers for the new team.

The Rangers will look a bit daft on the pool lists, draws etc.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 22, 2012)

McCoist seems to be doing his best to scupper any deal with the SFA. I knew he was a bit of a numpty but he appears to be taking numptiness to a new level. He keeps saying that 'we' have been punished enough.  His new team is lucky to be accepted in to D3.


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## Dodger (Jul 22, 2012)

Wow.....been away for a bit and just catching up on the latests happening.............

This is more mental than I thought. OK arguing over TV rights go no issue with that - don't agree with Rangers but they do have a case and either outcome wouldn't surprise me....


But they don't want dual contracts INVESTIGATED !!!!  seriously??? - what do they have to hide ???

They have been punished a 10 point deduction and a fine they didn't pay. They have been given privileged access to a league whose criteria they don't meet and they want to do what ??????

I feel the same way, and my disdain for them increases with every extraordinary statement that they release.

They have yet to receive any form of punishment whatsoever. Everything that has happened to date is a consequence of the actions of the club's management. They are peddling the line that it's all the fault of Whyte and Murray and that these two 'rogues' acted alone.

What about the other members of the board throught the tenure of these 'rogues'?

Why didn't these 'good guys' come forward and report what was going on?

The answer is quite simple - Rangers were challenging for honours, and these 'good guys' were quite happy to rake in the high remuneration which accompanied this. There was no whistleblowing because these 'good guys' were happy to line their pockets and basque in the reflective glory of the trophy wins.

We can't just let them continue to stick two fingers up to the rest of Scottish football while refusing to admit that what they did over the last decade was wrong. McCoist et al should be making conciliatory statements rather than aggressive posturing statements. They should admit that they behaved abhorrently and that they are willing to accept the findings of any future investigations.

I'm now starting to think that if the new Rangers aren't willing to admit their wrong doings as a condition of membership that the SFA should withold their membership.

Or maybe McCoist should do the honourable thing and 'walk away'. He is doing more harm than good to his club in the eyes of the rest of Scottish football with such inflammatory imbecilic statements, and the healing process for Scottish football would maybe progress more if somebody else with less 'baggage' was in the managerial hotseat at Ibrox. 

They should just be told to GTF.


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## Val (Jul 22, 2012)

I said weeks ago I didn't think they were certain to play in the SFL next year ad it may still be the case


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## StuartD (Jul 23, 2012)

reliably informed that there is going to be a new bid to take control of RFC today


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## Val (Jul 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			reliably informed that there is going to be a new bid to take control of RFC today
		
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I think this is the least of their worries Stuart, they need a licence to play regardless of who owns them.


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## StuartD (Jul 23, 2012)

Valentino said:



			I think this is the least of their worries Stuart, they need a licence to play regardless of who owns them.
		
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Would not disagree with that, the license is certainly the most important thing right now. However a different face at the negotiating table could make a difference. Although to be fair to Charles Green i don't think he has been the main problem


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## Val (Jul 23, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Would not disagree with that, the license is certainly the most important thing right now. However a different face at the negotiating table could make a difference. Although to be fair to Charles Green i don't think he has been the main problem
		
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The problem more than anything is the willingness to keep history in tact and tie into "old" Rangers, for that to happen there is always going to be sanctions.

Ally McCoist interview was shocking, punished enough? Give me a break, the punishment they got was 10 point deduction for administration, the european ban is because they went bust FFS, when you go bust you have no business.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 23, 2012)

After all this time they still don't get it.

Rangers are finished as a football club their history is dead.
The new club, whatever they wish to call it, is what it says on the label A NEW CLUB.
The NEW CLUB have been very lucky to have been given a place in D3.


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## HughJars (Jul 23, 2012)

Great piece in today's Telegraph...


_â€œIt is important to remember we have already had a 10-point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a Â£160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division 3 and lost the majority of our first team squad. Yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.â€_

Of course, the 10-point penalty, like the exile from European competition, are not punishments: they merely represent the consequences of falling into administration.Similarly, newco Rangers have not been penalised by beginning life in the Third Division: indeed, no other completely new club would have been allowed to enter the bottom tier.

_â€œI can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the Club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the Club shares this view.â€

The idea that people found guilty of wrongdoing â€“ and if the SPL's investigations proves that Rangers were improperly registering players over a period of 11 years it would be considered a major offence â€“ should decide on the sentence they receive is a novel one._


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 23, 2012)

Amazing arrogance from McCoist.
I would have imagine he benefitted quite handsomely from Murray's payment scheme.


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## Dodger (Jul 23, 2012)

I used to have a bit of time for Ally,even for a Hun he always came across well but he has gone way way down in my estimation lately.

I would be embarrassed to have him in charge of my team right now yet the Huns still think he is a Lord which swing it right back to the total arrogance many of them are still showing.

Kennedy back in I see....hope Green asks for plenty of cash then backs out last minute.


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## Dodger (Jul 23, 2012)

Hearing from my source that they will 'work round the licensing issue' to ensure that the Huns can perform on Sunday.

If this is true it sums up how bloody sickening the corruption within the Scottish game is.

He has been pretty much spot on so far but I hope he is incorrect this time,they either give them it by Friday or they don't....end of.

Truly putrid if correct.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 24, 2012)

Please all ignore above post. Written at 1.03 says it all.

Brian Kennedy back in with a Â£5.5M bid.
He is quite persistant isn't he.


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## HughJars (Jul 24, 2012)

williamalex1 said:



			bbc news 00.48 quote  sexual abuse by a coach in US school  football team could result in the team being stripped  [ sorry ] of any trophys that were won during that period ; any bells ringing ask the boy s from brazil era thats putrid. better a hun than a perve. im ready for flack but not at the back
		
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Sorry Troon, we should ignore it I know, but I'm quoting for posterity so that we can see what a horrible bunch Rangers FC were, and how well rid of them we are.


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## Dodger (Jul 24, 2012)

*Interesting.....very interesting!*

What with the ongoing issue of SPL wanting "Rangers" media rights (although "Rangers" don't have media rights, the SFL do), here's an interesting thing.

_"In the debate over whether the SPL buys the broadcast rights to SFL games featuring Rangers, weâ€™ve just spotted a rather interesting quirk. Sevco Scotland Limited was accepted to the SFL as an Associate Member, and will not be eligible for full Member status for four years. Rule 19 of the SFL Constitution says:_​​
_â€œAn Associate Member shall have no financial interest in the assets of the League and shall not be accorded any voting rights.â€_​
_We assume â€œthe assets of the Leagueâ€ include its media rights. (Indeed, as far as we can see those would be pretty much the only assets jointly owned by the League.) Rule 19 would seem to suggest that if the SFL does want to sell â€œRangersâ€ games to the SPL â€“ or indeed to anyone else â€“ not only will the newco not be entitled to a vote on the matter, but it *wonâ€™t be entitled to any of the money either*._
_We havenâ€™t seen anyone else mention this. It seems quite significant."_

http://wingsland.pod...e-just-noticed/


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 24, 2012)

Goodness they have a Rule 19 as well.
Does that mean we can reduce their handicap!

Well spotted Dodger.
The mucking fuddle seems to get bigger every day.


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## StuartD (Jul 24, 2012)

From the Daily Record


Newco Rangers have been granted only associate membership of the SFL. As a result, under Rule 19 of the SFLâ€™s constitution, they arenâ€™t entitled to a share of the sale of those rights â€“ even though itâ€™s their involvement which has produced a bidding war.

The rule states: â€œAn Associate Member shall have no financial interest in the assets of the League and shall not be accorded any voting rights.â€

However, SFL chief executive David Longmuir hinted last night a compromise may be reached which will allow the club to gain a much-needed cash injection from the transaction.

He said: â€œWe will work in a collaborative fashion to operate in the best interests of the League.â€


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## DelB (Jul 24, 2012)

Absolutely amazed (and not a little disappointed) to see Ian Black set to sign for Rangers. Fantastic player at Tynecastle last season and very surprised at what must be considered to be an enormous lack of ambition on his part.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 24, 2012)

Well there is a new trend Rangers buying Hearts rejects.
Was Black not a naughty boy a wee while ago when off duty.


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## StuartD (Jul 25, 2012)

DelB said:



			Absolutely amazed (and not a little disappointed) to see Ian Black set to sign for Rangers. Fantastic player at Tynecastle last season and very surprised at what must be considered to be an enormous lack of ambition on his part. 

Click to expand...

After not being paid over Christmas for about 3 months and having to work as painter, maybe Blacks' ambition is now just to earn a decent stable wage

Still in the wrong place then!!! :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 25, 2012)

Part of the reason for Black not being paid was Rangers failure to pay up on the Wallace transfer money.

Agree he is a good player. A bit headstrong but just the sort of player Rangers need for 3 years to climb the lower leagues.


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## StuartD (Jul 25, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Part of the reason for Black not being paid was Rangers failure to pay up on the Wallace transfer money.
		
Click to expand...

How???

Rangers fell behind on the Wallace payments in the close season when the second payment was due. The third and final payment was due in July 2013. Hearts put an offer to Rangers last Christmas, when they were struggling to pay their players, in that if Rangers paid in full they would get a discount of Â£100k. If Rangers had paid the money, I imagine Black would have got paid but Rangers were under no obligation to pay any money at this time and therefore surely cannot be blamed for Hearts being unable to pay their players wages.


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## chris661 (Jul 25, 2012)

I see it reported that sevco have offered dean shiels a four year deal worth 7k a week. For the third division? Tell me how paying stupid money on footballers worked out for them the last time? Anybody want to guess at how long before we see another "insolvency event" at ibrokes?


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I see it reported that sevco have offered dean shiels a four year deal worth 7k a week. For the third division? Tell me how paying stupid money on footballers worked out for them the last time? Anybody want to guess at how long before we see another "insolvency event" at ibrokes?
		
Click to expand...

Never mind 3rd Div football.....Â£7k a week for that noddy is laughable in any league.


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## Val (Jul 25, 2012)

Nice day today.

Dean Shields :rofl:


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## thecraw (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Never mind 3rd Div football.....Â£7k a week for that noddy is laughable in any league.
		
Click to expand...


Dean Shiels 2011/12  -  12 goals
Anthony Stokes 2011/12  - 12 goals
Samaras well em no comment!

Playing in a duff team and he still scores the same amount as one of Celtics top strikers and lots more than the bearded Euro 2012 player!

Quick player, good eye (no pun intended) for goal and will score for fun in that league. Compare him Â£ for Â£ to what Samaras is earning then I'd argue its not that bad however I question where the noney is coming from and the accuracy of the reported figure!


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Dean Shiels 2011/12  -  12 goals
Anthony Stokes 2011/12  - 12 goals
Samaras well em no comment!

Playing in a duff team and he still scores the same amount as one of Celtics top strikers and lots more than the bearded Euro 2012 player!

Quick player, good eye (no pun intended) for goal and will score for fun in that league. Compare him Â£ for Â£ to what Samaras is earning then I'd argue its not that bad however I question where the noney is coming from and the accuracy of the reported figure!
		
Click to expand...

Craw,from time to time you really do come up with some brilliant stuff that keeps me chortling throughout the day.

Keep them coming,everyone loves a laugh to keep the day going.:lol:


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## thecraw (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Craw,from time to time you really do come up with some brilliant stuff that keeps me chortling throughout the day.

Keep them coming,everyone loves a laugh to keep the day going.:lol:
		
Click to expand...

Stats don't lie!


:rofl:Samaras :rofl:


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## StuartD (Jul 25, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Stats don't lie!


:rofl:Samaras :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Have to agree with thecraw on this one.  :thup:


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Have to agree with thecraw on this one.  :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Now,there's a surprise!:ears:

Comedy Gold.:whoo:


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## GreiginFife (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Now,there's a surprise!:ears:

Comedy Gold.:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Been enjoying some of the stuff on this thread but Dodger you have me confused on this one. 
Can you explain why it's comedy gold if the stats are what they are? 
I am interested purely from an analytical sense as I don't get where you are coming from.


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## StuartD (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Now,there's a surprise!:ears:

Comedy Gold.:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Just didn't want to disappoint you. 

I am hearing that SPL and SFL have made a deal regards TV rights and licence will now be issued


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## Val (Jul 25, 2012)

Anybody can post stats on strikers

James Beattie, Francis Jeffers.........

Will I find any more?

As for Dean Shields, go tell me how many more games than Stokes he played then come back and tell me the stats.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 25, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Anybody can post stats on strikers

James Beattie, Francis Jeffers.........

Will I find any more?

As for Dean Shields, go tell me how many more games than Stokes he played then come back and tell me the stats.
		
Click to expand...

That's the bit I'm trying to understand Martin, stats are great things, BUT they can be made to sit up and dance to your tune very easily. 
Man, I am an analysis geek!


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## Val (Jul 25, 2012)

Spot on Greig.

People  can still shoot in the 90's and have 25-30 putts, doesn't make them a good putter though.


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

Stats can make golfers like StuartD sound half decent.

The fact a comparison is being drawn between the 3 players in question is what is making me laugh....it's like comparing Homer with Nick Dougherty and Marc Warren.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Stats can make golfers like StuartD sound half decent.

The fact a comparison is being drawn between the 3 players in question is what is making me laugh....it's like comparing Homer with Nick Dougherty and Marc Warren.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but _why_ is that the case? 
Ok so my view is, the market place is the same (playing in the SPL - they play the same teams), the functionality is the same (each team starts the game with 11 players) and the repeatability is the same (they play the same number of games (league) spread over varying days). 
So, what variation do we need to take in to consideration to create a null hypothesis that each player is of equal quality (the bit you want to disprove) that would create that laughter in comparison?


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## thecraw (Jul 25, 2012)

:rofl: Samaras  :rofl:


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

Jeeeez Greig.....deep stuff.

If Rooney played all year and scored twice and Shola played all year and scored 20 would that make Shola a better player than Rooney?

Would it hell as like.

There,you have yer answer.


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## GreiginFife (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Jeeeez Greig.....deep stuff.

If Rooney played all year and scored twice and Shola played all year and scored 20 would that make Shola a better player than Rooney?

Would it hell as like.

There,you have yer answer.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Is there not a case for weighted scaling though (i.e if Rooney played in a top class United squad and only scored twice and Shola played in a mediocre Newcastle squad but scored 20 then there could be a case for him to be labelled a better player as they play against the same opposition teams) but I think Rooney would be on his bike if that was the case, what do you think that would do to his market value? 

This stuff just interests me from a data perspective. Sorry


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Thanks. Is there not a case for weighted scaling though (i.e if Rooney played in a top class United squad and only scored twice and Shola played in a mediocre Newcastle squad but scored 20 then there could be a case for him to be labelled a better player as they play against the same opposition teams) but I think Rooney would be on his bike if that was the case, what do you think that would do to his market value? 

This stuff just interests me from a data perspective. Sorry 

Click to expand...

All I will say is that if Shola scored 20 in a season I would run naked from Berwick to the Toon and back.:whoo:


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## GreiginFife (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			All I will say is that if Shola scored 20 in a season I would run naked from Berwick to the Toon and back.:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Then all we can do is pray for an uncharacteristic barren spell from such a prolific Marksman Dodger... :thup:


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Then all we can do is pray for an uncharacteristic barren spell from such a prolific Marksman Dodger... :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Yes,I would urge everyone to pray tonight!!:rofl:


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## GreiginFife (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Yes,I would urge everyone to pray tonight!!:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You realise I'm now going to go out to the nearest bookie and drop a wedge on Shola to bag 20... :fore:


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## bladeplayer (Jul 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			All I will say is that if Shola scored 20 in a season I would run naked from Berwick to the Toon and back.:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH hide the children, hide the children  :ears:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 25, 2012)

Don't get the naked golfer confused with the naked rambler.

Why don't they bundle that numpty into a police car and drive him to Plymouth.
The Scottish prison servive has paid his keep for 6 years now.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 25, 2012)

We've dropped down to two stars now and we have lost the edit button. Someone needs to explain.

Over 1000 posts, 103 pages and nearly 30,000 views.
Not bad for a fitba thread on a golf blog.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 25, 2012)

I see England have just scored in the Olympic fitba.


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

I spoke with a bloke today that I would have previously considered to be a smart cookie.He's a bluenose and I have not seen him in a while so asked him his views on what's been going on and I have to say I was shocked to hear him come out with the exact same views as 99% of the rest of his lot.

"We have been punished enough,we aint got Champ League any more,we are in Div 3,we should not be stripped of any titles as we didn't do anything wrong etc etc".

Is it just a pure "them and us" attitude that is causing usually fair men to talk out their arses?

With regards to the Dual Contracts can anyone tell me why there still hasn't been a definitive finding on this yet or have I missed something?

Puzzles me that the SFA state that the orcs had a case to answer yet nothing seems to have been discussed regards it all??


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## Dodger (Jul 25, 2012)

Been told by my sometimes on the ball source tonight:

Green has reached an agreement in principle for membership, including accepting the investigation into EBT's.

Ally and Green have had a fallout with Sally threatening to leave if Green agrees to this.

Source maintains that it's Greens intentions to force Sally out, Rangers fans refuse to buy ST allowing Green to use this as the reason as to why Sevco can't function as a footballing business opening the door for a pre-pack liquidation allowing the sale of the assets.


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## StuartD (Jul 26, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Stats can make golfers like StuartD sound half decent.

Click to expand...

Can they?? Great. I demand to know what they are then 



Dodger said:



			The fact a comparison is being drawn between the 3 players in question is what is making me laugh....it's like comparing Homer with Nick Dougherty and Marc Warren.
		
Click to expand...

But a comaprison can be drawn here. Dougherty and Warren were young tour winners and bright hopes for the future as was Homer as an assistant pro.

Dougherty and Warren have spent time on the  challenge tour in the wilderness(albeit Warren is on his way back now) as  Homer does now hacking it about Royal Ascot


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## Dodger (Jul 26, 2012)

Very quiet day today eh?

Not much happening.

Great piece by Ewing Grahame that sums up the current (no pun intended) situation....  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9429885/Rangers-go-the-wire-haggling-over-SFA-membership.html

The interval is nearly over and I have my popcorn at the ready but will there be a happy ending tomorrow or a further extension to the deadlines??

[video=youtube;ufPpxtA0ZWs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufPpxtA0ZWs&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## Dodger (Jul 27, 2012)

Sad ending.

Deal done and rules bent once again.


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## SS2 (Jul 27, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Sad ending.

Deal done and rules bent once again.
		
Click to expand...

Has this been officially announced? Got a link ?


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## Dodger (Jul 27, 2012)

SS2 said:



			Has this been officially announced? Got a link ?
		
Click to expand...

Man in the know tells me so.

A weekend pass will be granted for the game on Sunday then the deal will be sealed next week.....a weekend pass eh? It's football no a trip to Alton Towers FFS.


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## smange (Jul 27, 2012)

Does this mean im allowed to complain about the SFA again or do I have to wait to see if they manage to squirm out of it and blame someone else:mmm:

If true and I have no reason to doubt it, then as expected the SFA will have (yet again) bent rules and regulations to accommodate Newco.


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## smange (Jul 27, 2012)

For a newly formed club who havent played a game yet, thats an impressive list of honours they have accummulated according to the SFL website

http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/rangers-fc/


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## chris661 (Jul 27, 2012)

The question remains though, how many will they get to keep?

Another snippet of information regarding sevco I have read something that says they will need to sell approx 35k tickets at Â£20 quid just to break even assuming they have got there running costs down by over half since admin. Ha good luck with that.

I still maintain that they are in no posistion to fund a season of football at ibrokes.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 27, 2012)

Permission granted smange.


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## chris661 (Jul 27, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Permission granted smange.
		
Click to expand...

Where you getting that?


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## chris661 (Jul 27, 2012)

Just seen a copy of the temporary licence








































:rofl:


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## AMcC (Jul 27, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Just seen a copy of the temporary licence








































:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

So mote it be.


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## Dodger (Jul 28, 2012)

Fat Sally opens his horrible mouth again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19022680?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Some of the garbage he spouts out in that is dumfounding,the SPL 'kicked' us out?? He just doesn't understand what process his former club has just wnet through does he?

I can only presume he will be hauled in front of the authorities and punished for his continual spouting of pish?

The man used to command a bit of respect but now he has become a blinded joke figure.....


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## StuartD (Jul 28, 2012)

Dodger said:



			He just doesn't understand what process his former club has just wnet through does he?
		
Click to expand...

Neither do I. Has something happened to Kilmarnock already? Or is it st Johnstone?

A few days ago you were saying there has not been enough punishments. How can a new club be punished for a different clubs misdemeanours. You are making me so confused. :ears:


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## Val (Jul 28, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Neither do I. Has something happened to Kilmarnock already? Or is it st Johnstone?

A few days ago you were saying there has not been enough punishments. How can a new club be punished for a different clubs misdemeanours. You are making me so confused. :ears:
		
Click to expand...

His former club went into administration then were liquidated so no longer exist, any punishment they got, ie 10 points deduction is self inflicted, no one else's fault. Newco wish to take former clubs membership and to get it they must take the baggage that goes with it or start from the beginning by submitting a proper application to join the football league like Annan, Gretna etc.

For some reason Sally can't see this,


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 28, 2012)

Well said Valentino.
Can we please now stop all this 'poor wee us have been punished enough nonsense'.
They put up or shut up as far as I am concerned.

Talk about having their pie and eaten it.


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## StuartD (Jul 28, 2012)

Valentino said:



			His former club went into administration then were liquidated so no longer exist
		
Click to expand...

You sure about that?

Maybe you could explain why I am still getting documents from the administrators then. Duff and phelps milked things for a good while but I don't think they would get away with being paid for being  administrators of a liquidated company

I am sure one or two of the outstanding creditors would  say something about that


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 28, 2012)

The big game is on at 3pm BBC ALBA [channel 165] for all you footie fans tomorrow [Sunday]


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## Iaing (Jul 29, 2012)

StuartD said:



			You sure about that?

Maybe you could explain why I am still getting documents from the administrators then. Duff and phelps milked things for a good while but I don't think they would get away with being paid for being  administrators of a liquidated company

I am sure one or two of the outstanding creditors would  say something about that

Click to expand...

So Rangers haven't been liquidised yet?


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

Valentino said:



			His former club went into administration then were liquidated so no longer exist, any punishment they got, ie 10 points deduction is self inflicted, no one else's fault. Newco wish to take former clubs membership and to get it they must take the baggage that goes with it or start from the beginning by submitting a proper application to join the football league like Annan, Gretna etc.

For some reason Sally and Stuart can't see this,
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you.

What a shower the Huns are.:mmm:


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## wrighty1874 (Jul 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Jeeeez Greig.....deep stuff.

If Rooney played all year and scored twice and Shola played all year and scored 20 would that make Shola a better player than Rooney?

Would it hell as like.

There,you have yer answer.

Click to expand...

Did you watch Euro 2012?


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## thecraw (Jul 29, 2012)

What is now getting on my goat is the fact that Rangers are now building to be parachuted straight back into the top tier next year. There is no way Rangers are signing players on 7k per week to play their way up through the leagues. The whole scenario stinks of a back handed deal that will see league reconstruction reward Rangers with a route back into the top flight. 

McCoist is talking about bringing in 15 players which is an absolute disgrace. 15 players on 7k a week when they have no money??? 15 players of a standard who would grace most SPL teams??? And we're all to sit back and believe that this is re-building? Its quite clearly to allow them back into the top flight as early as next season. Why else would this quality of player drop down to the bottom league in Scotland, why would they allow themselves the indignity to drop to the bottom tier of Scottish football???

The Scottish media and the SFA, SPL AND SFL are all a laughing stock who should all be sacked. The Scottish media and their old firm bias are just as bad, Scottish football is rotten to the core and people like Doncaster etc should be forced out the door by fan power as its clear the media haven't got the balls to do it. Joke league, joke authorities looking after said joke set up = joke product.

Rant not even started yet.


:sbox:


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Why would they have no money? 

Greens consortium who bought the assets may have put in plenty of personal new money with new backers/investors and sponsorship deals for what is a totally new company.


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

StuartD said:



			You sure about that?

Maybe you could explain why I am still getting documents from the administrators then. Duff and phelps milked things for a good while but I don't think they would get away with being paid for being  administrators of a liquidated company

I am sure one or two of the outstanding creditors would  say something about that

Click to expand...

If they haven't been liquidated (or arent going to be) then why arent they playing in the SPL


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Valentino said:



			If they haven't been liquidated (or arent going to be) then why arent they playing in the SPL
		
Click to expand...

I would think they are in voluntary liquidation which can take years to complete.

Allows the assets to be purchased by a new phoenix company and then open for business with a clean slate.


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

Fish said:



			I would think they are in voluntary liquidation which can take years to complete.

Allows the assets to be purchased by a new phoenix company and then open for business with a clean slate.
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't answer the question though buddy, Stuart seems to think they aren't in liquidation of any kind.


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Doesn't answer the question though buddy, Stuart seems to think they aren't in liquidation of any kind.
		
Click to expand...

If that was the case someone would have done a winding up order on them and Green wouldn't have been able to buy any assets!

There's no middle ground, its either or...


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

Can't believe my post has been deleted!!

Mod polis at their best,no humour left in this world.


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

Fish said:



			If that was the case someone would have done a winding up order on them and Green wouldn't have been able to buy any assets!

There's no middle ground, its either or...
		
Click to expand...

HMRC have appointed a liquidator already.


----------



## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

Interesting to see the Huns take a team to the field today that are ineligible to play.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.c...hip-are-any-rfc-players-registered/#more-1714


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Valentino said:



			HMRC have appointed a liquidator already.
		
Click to expand...

So for me its in voluntary liquidation which allowed them to set up the new phoenix company and buy any assets and under the transfer of undertakings (protection of employment) regulations they can then move all existing players & staff to the new company.

This also allows them to buy any new players as it's a completely new company in essence with no affiliation to the old company what-so-ever.


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

Fish said:



			So for me its in voluntary liquidation which allowed them to set up the new phoenix company and buy any assets and under the transfer of undertakings (protection of employment) regulations they can then move all existing players & staff to the new company.

This also allows them to buy any new players as it's a completely new company in essence with no affiliation to the old company what-so-ever.




Click to expand...

So we agree then it's liquidation as i previously stated?


----------



## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Valentino said:



			So we agree then it's liquidation as i previously stated?
		
Click to expand...

It has to be, it won't be completed but its the only way a new company can be formed, assets purchased and the players and staff to be legally transferred which is within the insolvency rules designed in those circumstances to protect employee's.


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

Fish said:



			It has to be, it won't be completed but its the only way a new company can be formed, assets purchased and the players and staff to be legally transferred which is within the insolvency rules designed in those circumstances to protect employee's.
		
Click to expand...

Good stuff, are you reading this Stuart? If it's not the case can you elaborate.


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Brechin just equalised


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 29, 2012)

Good away result for New Rangers [as the BBC kept calling them]
Slight suspicion that they were playing for a draw as they would expect a bumper crowd from the Lichties at Ibrox.


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good away result for New Rangers [as the BBC kept calling them]
Slight suspicion that they were playing for a draw as they would expect a bumper crowd from the Lichties at Ibrox.
		
Click to expand...

The look on Ally's face at the end would discount any idea they wanted a draw.


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## chris661 (Jul 29, 2012)

Its still going.


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Its still going.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers didn't realise, turned off at "final" whistle.


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

Lost my stream link now, its gone to the Olympics.


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## chris661 (Jul 29, 2012)

Fish said:



			Lost my stream link now, its gone to the Olympics.
		
Click to expand...

The ball cannoned of Elbows face into the roof of the net. Lucky lucky outfit, see there was a few "honest" mistakes from the ref again.


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

Big shock,3rd Div club beats 1st Div club,that result will rank up there with...eh....with this one as it's the only game they have ever played.

Irony overload from Chuck I see.....  http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19040706?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter  :rofl:


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2012)

chris661 said:



			The ball cannoned of Elbows face into the roof of the net. Lucky lucky outfit, see there was a few "honest" mistakes from the ref again.
		
Click to expand...

Result?


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## GreiginFife (Jul 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Big shock,3rd Div club beats 1st Div club,
		
Click to expand...

Who's the 1st Div club that lost?


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Who's the 1st Div club that lost?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry 2nd....still a big shock,a result that will reverberate around the SFL.


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## Bomber69 (Jul 29, 2012)

Go the Queens Eleven, 100% record, get in there.


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



*Go the Queens Eleven*, 100% record, get in there.
		
Click to expand...

Irony overload.:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 29, 2012)

Pity the Queens eleven could not be bovvered to pay the Queens taxes.


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## Bomber69 (Jul 29, 2012)

Why do you work that out, after all the tosh I have read on this thread you should all be wishing them well for taking the punishment they were given and for getting off to a good start. 

Bittererness is a bad thing and is something that will come back to greet a few teams before the end of the season.

Well done to Ally and The Rangers............


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 29, 2012)

Bomber
Why don't you support your local team Falkirk?


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## Bomber69 (Jul 29, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Bomber
Why don't you support your local team Falkirk?
		
Click to expand...

How do you know that I dont?

Your are just jumping to conclusions, I stay next to Stenhousemuir FC if you must know and never miss a home game.


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Why do you work that out, after all the tosh I have read on this thread you should all be wishing them well for taking the punishment they were given and for getting off to a good start. 

Bittererness is a bad thing and is something that will come back to greet a few teams before the end of the season.

Well done to Ally and The Rangers............
		
Click to expand...

What punishments?


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

With regards to Chuck,I am still astounded by his statement....

He is either an idiot and believes that crap, or he is trying to get the stereotypical Hun on board? He wants their season ticket money, and by coming out with this utter nonsense, he is telling them that he is one of them. RFC are the most bigoted club in Scotland by a country mile, and probably the world, the amazing thing is, a significant percentage of RFC fans think everyone else is to blame, is responsible for their mess.

The whole sorry affair will only deepen the chasm between RFCs stereotypical fans and normal people, they will dig deeper into their anti catholic, anti SNP, anti Scotland, mindset, its pathetic how these people think and behave. I actually feel sorry for the decent RFC fans.:mmm:


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## Bomber69 (Jul 29, 2012)

They will never move on as long as guys like you talk like this, Celtic FC put Lennon in charge to bring the pub fan back to to club and play the victim's role for the last 2 year's and by all accounts it worked but it will now dwindle away and the so called fans will stop going to the games and go back to the pubs to watch "their team" great times for Scottish football and all the wee teams will flurish while the Celtic will struggle to cope and we will see major cut backs within the team and the backroom staff.


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			How do you know that I dont?

Your are just jumping to conclusions, I stay next to Stenhousemuir FC if you must know and never miss a home game.
		
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Used to watch it from the old 17th fairway


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## StuartD (Jul 29, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Good stuff, are you reading this Stuart? If it's not the case can you elaborate.
		
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Sorry for not getting back sooner. I was out watching The Rangers Football Club,est 1873, the most succesful club in scotish football play in a lesser competition after severe punishments had been handed out to them 

I'll put the rod down 

Rangers PLC were still in Administration on the 10th of July well after the sale to green. The credidtors report produced by the administrators on this date states in section 5.1

"The corporate entity which remains under the control of the Joint Administrators i.e. the Company, will be placed into CVL once all outstanding issues have been attended to. It is likely to be several weeks before this occurs". 

and it states in Section 14.1
"The next report will be a formal progress report and will be issued following the six month anniversary of the Appointment Date or sooner depending upon when the Company is placed into CVL. "


A CVL is a creditors voluntry liquidation. Quite why it takes so long i have no idea. As I have had nothing further from D&P I can only assume the company is still in admin . You are right that HMRC have appointented liquidators (BDO). The will probably look at the pre CVA deal to sell assets to Green on a CVA failure first. I can't see how it was in the best interests of the Creditors especially now as other bidders have stepped forward. They will also look at the transaction between Murray and Whyte which is of most interest to Rangers fans. Court action on these two individuals also cannot be ruled out


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

So is it or is not the case they are or are in the process of being liquidated?


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## StuartD (Jul 29, 2012)

Liquidation starts with a CVL and the BDO will move in. That has not yet happened, so they are still in Administration.


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

Anything to say on Chucks statement Stuart??

I am genuinely interested on your thoughts??

Surely a tactic to get Season Books sold?

Either way he should be charged for bringing the game into disrepute,if he isn't then the SFA will appear to be quite happy to back bigotry.....


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Liquidation starts with a CVL and the BDO will move in. That has not yet happened, so they are still in Administration.
		
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If that's the case then will you be starting the season on minus points?


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## Val (Jul 29, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Liquidation starts with a CVL and the BDO will move in. That has not yet happened, so they are still in Administration.
		
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So why are they playing as a newco?


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## StuartD (Jul 29, 2012)

Dodger said:



			If that's the case then will you be starting the season on minus points?
		
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Christ i hope not after today :whoo:

We Will not start on minus points as the Football club is not under control of a company in administration (yet:mmm


Greens statement - Bigotry no chance

I agree with him that decisions have not made business sense, but fans don't look at it from a business perspective.


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## Dodger (Jul 29, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Christ i hope not after today :whoo:

We Will not start on minus points as the Football club is not under control of a company in administration (yet:mmm


Greens statement - Bigotry no chance

I agree with him that decisions have not made business sense, but fans don't look at it from a business perspective.
		
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Nope,the fans have looked at it from an integrity sense and I for one am happy with this outlook.

Watched a bit of it today and by christ it was grim.


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## Val (Jul 30, 2012)

Stuart, this is the bit Im struggling to see, so please fill me in with things im missing.

 Rangers FC (est 1873) are not in liquidation yet but are in administration and are in the process of a CVL. 

The Rangers FC (est 2012) are a newco who now play in the SFL despite the fact they are a newco with no history of trading and have been airdropped into Scottish football. 

The Rangers (2012) wish to be tied to Rangers (1873) to maintain the history and to continue to grow the history but wish to do this without penalty despite the fact the have left a carnage of debt across Europe, are in the final stages of a FTT with HMRC which could see a further Â£50m+ (im being kind here) added to this carnage of debt. It has also been identified that there is a case to answer on the illegal registration of players due to dual contracts undisclosed to the SPL.

Tell me this, why on earth would any club wish to keep carrying the baggage? The club should shut the door on 1873 and start from scratch with nothing, a clean slate.

PS - Well done on the giant killing act yesterday :thup:


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## StuartD (Jul 30, 2012)

First it is necessary to differentiate between a corporate plc and football club It is summed up in the court notes here raised when the court action was taken regarding the transfer ban

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2012CSOH 95.html

It states "the Rangers Football Club plc, a company presently in administration. That company presently operates Rangers Football Club"




Valentino said:



			Stuart, this is the bit Im struggling to see, so please fill me in with things im missing.

Rangers FC (est 1873) are not in liquidation yet but are in administration and are in the process of a CVL.
		
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Rangers PLC (est 1899) are in administration and awaiting CVL. The Football club (Rangers FC est 1873) and all its assets were bought by Sevco and therfore no longer in administration



Valentino said:



			The Rangers FC (est 2012) are a newco who now play in the SFL despite the fact they are a newco with no history of trading and have been airdropped into Scottish football.
		
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The Rangers FC Ltd (to give its full name) technically does not yet exist. This is the name Sevco ( a new company set up in 2012) want to take on. To take this name on certain guidelines regarding the name have to be met. One of these is similarity to other company names. This is one of the last actions of the administrators who have organised on a vote to change Rangers PLC name to RFC2012 Ltd. This should clear the main hurdle but the renaming of Sevco could still be refused. Rangers Football club (est 1873) are now in the SFL and are operated by Sevco.

This is why the football debt and sanctions must be retained as it is the same football club. As it is a new corporate company the corporate debt has been left with the PLC in administration.

If Sevco applied to get registered as a new club, they would have had to supply accounts. The rules don't say that the accounts have to be football related. The only way Green could could have applied as a new club was to have bought a business with 3 years of audited acounts.

Airdrie Utd was a similar newco take over. The parent company also did not have any audited accounts and used Clydebanks accounts when they took over Clydebank Football Club. However they also took over the Corporate PLC and honoured the corporate debt. That is why they were not put in the bottom tier.

Any time a club walks away from Corporate debt whether it is done via a CVA or Newco should be demoted to the bottom tier in my opinion as it allows a near clean slate (only football debt retained). This is what should be in the rules and it would be clear for all. My only slight concern with this is if a club went into admin when not getting payment from a sponsor (ie the sponsor going bust) this scenario is much different from the deliberate non payment of taxes by Craig Whyte


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## chris661 (Jul 30, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Rangers PLC (est 1899) are in administration and awaiting CVL. The Football club (Rangers FC est 1873) and all its assets were bought by Sevco and therfore no longer in administration
		
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Was the club (1873) not incorporated into a company (1899)


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## wrighty1874 (Jul 30, 2012)

Bomber, your nose is growing as I write!!!!



Bomber69 said:



			How do you know that I dont?

Your are just jumping to conclusions, I stay next to Stenhousemuir FC if you must know and never miss a home game.
		
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## Bomber69 (Jul 30, 2012)

wrighty1874 said:



			Bomber, your nose is growing as I write!!!!
		
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Your a nasty man Nick, I have always been a supporter of Stenhousemuir........


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## Dodger (Jul 31, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Your a nasty man Nick, I have always been a supporter of Stenhousemuir........
		
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Stenny are your big team then and Sevco your diddy club?:rofl:


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## Bomber69 (Jul 31, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Stenny are your big team then and Sevco your diddy club?:rofl:
		
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PMSL :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 31, 2012)

My golfing buddie who is a Rangers fan [oh how I have enjoyed this summers games!] Is going back to his real roots and supporting Ayr United again. I wonder how many glory hunters will do the same thing.


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## Dodger (Jul 31, 2012)

Taken from a blog I read today..........

*The life support machine of Ibrox*

​
So today Sevco Scotland have changed their name to The Rangers Football Club Limited.

An extraordinary general meeting of shareholders took place at Ibrox to vote on the new name, well it's not a new name, well it is and it isn't a new name.

I've said that a few times over the summer!



So Charles Green never hid the fact that the company that was basically running The Rangers was called Sevco 5088.

But who are really behind Sevco 5088.



In my blog;  http://thedemiseofrangersinpictures.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/pictures-from-around-ibrox-stadium.html I explained how the money was being siphoned back to Ticketus through a network of different companies all associated with one and other and that the intricacy of the web would confuse some people.

Well i tried my best to describe it in lay mans terms and I'll try do the same with this.




*How the money is being drip fed into Ibrox to keep it alive.*

Sevco 5088 Limited are registered at,

35 Vine Street
London
EC3N 2AA

This is the address of Law firm, Field Fisher Waterhouse (FFW).

Now it is known that Charles Green instructed FFW to conduct the CVA negotiations which ultimately failed to be approved.

Sevco 5088 are still registered at the above address.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/08011390


Now if we take a closer look at FFW. They are Legal advisers to a company called Access Intelligence.

Access Intelligence major shareholder is Octopus, the company that own Ticketus.

http://www.accessintelligence.com/aimrule26.php

http://tools.morningstar.co.uk/uk/s...ntFund=0&BaseCurrencyId=GBP&InvestmentType=E0


People have been asking "where are they getting the money from?" Quite simply, Octopus. (Ticketus)


Remembering that Octopus own a very large part of Access Intelligence who's advisers are Field Fisher Waterhouse who Charles Green employed to negotiate the CVA this would highly suggest that this is the money 'in' route.

Also remembering that Octopus are major shareholder in Zeus who have two guys (Brian Stockbridge and Imran Ahmed) on the board, it reiterates that Octopus have more legs under the table than a lot of people think.:mmm::lol:


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## StuartD (Aug 1, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Was the club (1873) not incorporated into a company (1899)
		
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It is a reasonable assumption to make that a plc and football club is the same thing. They are so intertwined it is difficult to establish the difference

Looking at the football rulebooks it specifically separates them out. The UEFA rulebook has been updated and there are now specific rules about â€œA football clubâ€ taking on â€œNew Corporate Identityâ€. 

At a corporate/business level HMRCâ€™s statement after they rejected the CVA offer read as below
"A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers, by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company's financial affairs in recent years.
A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover the *liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club*.
"This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation therefore* the sale is not being undermined*â€
This statement shows that there is clear separation between the Club and the plc.

If we were to take the PLC and the football club as one there would be a heck of a lot of new football clubs out there. Many new owners move the football clubs into one of their companies and let the old company name die. This would have to be seen as a new club as it is a new company.

Looking at an example close to home in Celtic. Celtic set up a PLC in 1897 (yes they done it first like 9 in a row) in The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limitedâ€. Its name was changed to Celtic PLC in 1994 (still same company number so in essence the same company) It ran the football club until Feb 02 when â€œaspects of its tradeâ€ was transferred to "Celtic F.C. Limited, a company set up in 2001. Celtic FC Limited accounts states that "Celtic F.C. Limited has the main activity of which is the operation of a professional football club" Note the word operation
Therefore the football club was transferred to another company in 2002. 
If the original PLC setup in 1897 incorporated the club and was the club like has been claimed with Rangers, then the new company Celtic FC ltd would have to be a new club.  Would I claim that Celtic was a new club in 2002?  Not a chance. They are still entitled to have that little gold star, go on about 1967, they all were from within 30 miles of the ground blah blah blah. 


Waitâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦claiming itâ€™s a new club is a great idea!!!!!!:whoo:


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## StuartD (Aug 1, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Taken from a blog I read today..........

*The life support machine of Ibrox*

​

Click to expand...

So Bomber brown was right at the fans meeting he organised
Was he right about
 â€œThere always be a bleep bleep Rangers :rofl:â€   I hope!!!! :mmm:

Not going to read it. Am off to stick my head in the sand.

Fingers in my ears La La La La La La I am not listening!!!

Iâ€™m going slightly mad!!!


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## chris661 (Aug 1, 2012)

Stuart what is the date of incorporation for Celtic and the date for Sevco (which if reports are to believed are changing thief name)?

Next question why when duff & phelps sent out a letter did it state the liquidation of "the company" and "the club". 


Oh and another one did none of the fans listen to Chico green when he said that a cva was the only way to preserve history?


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## Dodger (Aug 1, 2012)

StuartD said:



			It is a reasonable assumption to make that a plc and football club is the same thing. They are so intertwined it is difficult to establish the difference

Looking at the football rulebooks it specifically separates them out. The UEFA rulebook has been updated and there are now specific rules about â€œA football clubâ€ taking on â€œNew Corporate Identityâ€. 

At a corporate/business level HMRCâ€™s statement after they rejected the CVA offer read as below
"A liquidation provides the best opportunity to protect taxpayers, by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company's financial affairs in recent years.
A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover the *liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club*.
"This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation therefore* the sale is not being undermined*â€
This statement shows that there is clear separation between the Club and the plc.

If we were to take the PLC and the football club as one there would be a heck of a lot of new football clubs out there. Many new owners move the football clubs into one of their companies and let the old company name die. This would have to be seen as a new club as it is a new company.

Looking at an example close to home in Celtic. Celtic set up a PLC in 1897 (yes they done it first like 9 in a row) in The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limitedâ€. Its name was changed to Celtic PLC in 1994 (still same company number so in essence the same company) It ran the football club until Feb 02 when â€œaspects of its tradeâ€ was transferred to "Celtic F.C. Limited, a company set up in 2001. Celtic FC Limited accounts states that "Celtic F.C. Limited has the main activity of which is the operation of a professional football club" Note the word operation
Therefore the football club was transferred to another company in 2002. 
If the original PLC setup in 1897 incorporated the club and was the club like has been claimed with Rangers, then the new company Celtic FC ltd would have to be a new club.  Would I claim that Celtic was a new club in 2002?  Not a chance. *They are still entitled to have that little gold star, go on about 1967, they all were from within 30 miles of the ground blah blah blah. *


Waitâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦claiming itâ€™s a new club is a great idea!!!!!!:whoo:
		
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Ahhhhh,even though your team has died, the pain and hurt still continues eh Stuart?:whoo::cheers:


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## StuartD (Aug 1, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Stuart what is the date of incorporation for Celtic and the date for Sevco (which if reports are to believed are changing thief name)??
		
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Yes the Sevco name is changing to The Rangers Football Club Ltd" Sevco was formed Jun this year

Celtic FC Ltd was registered in September 01 as HMS (402) Ltd. Its name was changed in Jan 02 to Celtic FC Ltd just a month before it took control of the club.

Incidentally this is now against UEFA rules and would result in 3 year ban (even just a name or registered address change is enough) but as it did not involve shedding any corporate debt it would probably be appealed quite easily



chris661 said:



			Next question why when duff & phelps sent out a letter did it state the liquidation of "the company" and "the club".
		
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There are a few letters I have from D&P that spell out the liquidation of PLC and club, and quite frankly they scared me to death, however the ones I can remember off the top of my head predate the sale off the club to Charles Green. D&P have been quite clear in their public statements in that the sale of the club before liquidation allows it to continue. Is the letter you refer to dated after the sale? If so it certainly flies in the face of what they were saying publicly, but D&P have not been the most consistent and professional outfit throughout.




chris661 said:



			Oh and another one did none of the fans listen to Chico green when he said that a cva was the only way to preserve history?
		
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Yes we all heard Charles Greens comments and debated them on various forums. Many fans immediately took him to task and said he was wrong citing numerous examples of other clubs in the UK and abroad who have gone through the same situation and come out the other end as the same club. However the less intellectual and knuckled raging element (yes we have a few in our support ) took to e-mail and twitter straight away trying to pressurise creditors into accepting the CVA with phrases like â€œblood on your hands if my club diesâ€. I know a few people that work within HMRC and have seen some examples that were doing the rounds. One thing i will say about Charles Green is he is not daft and he knew exactly what he was doing/saying. Had the CVA been accepted we would still be in SPL, Green would have had more investors (by his own admission) and would be able to command a far greater return on his original investment


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## StuartD (Aug 1, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Ahhhhh,even though your team has died, the pain and hurt still continues eh Stuart?:whoo::cheers:
		
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No pain here :thup:. Just put in especially for the Celtic fans on here for a laugh. I would have given odds of less than Celtic winning the SPL this season on you picking it up first. I also put in a smiley and reference to the 7-1 result but must have deleted whe tidying up before i posted my reply. I have long since come to terms with it and just have to accept it when it's raised in any debate. I have no possible reply, it is a feat that will never be repeated.

It has been said that a Rangers fan would die happy when he seen a european cup win, 7-1 and nine in a row. I have seen one in my lifetime i suppose. I would need to be a medical marvel to live to see a European Cup win, and at my weight and fitness I just cant see that happening :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 4, 2012)

SPL deals signed with Sky and ESPN for 5 years.
No mention of cash involved though!


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## chris661 (Aug 4, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			SPL deals signed with Sky and ESPN for 5 years.
No mention of cash involved though!
		
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Reported as Â£13 million a year with a million going to the sfl for the 15 sevco games. As it will come with a bit of redistribution it seems that Celtic will lose about a million with the rest of the teams a maximum of Â£200,000. Hardly Armageddon is it?


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 4, 2012)

Celtic will just have to play a bit better in the CL to make up the lost dosh.
They must have lost millions in recent years through their under performances.
Looks like Waymana is off to Arsenal for Â£6.6m that should also help.
Good player, he shall be missed.


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## Dodger (Aug 4, 2012)

I see Watty Bawbag Smith is at it again in today's press.

Do he and Fat Ally come as a double act?

What a couple of horrible halfwits they are.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 4, 2012)

Jambos top of the Bright New World for Scottish Football League.

Right where they belong.


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## DelB (Aug 4, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Jambos top of the Bright New World for Scottish Football League.

Right where they belong.
		
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:thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 4, 2012)

or

King o' the Midden


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## Iaing (Aug 4, 2012)

Just hope the jambos remember to pay their players wages.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 4, 2012)

Och that was just Not So Mad Vlad playing hardball with the SFA.

Interesting so see that many of his 'crazy' quotes about a Scottish football mafia have become almost sage like true.
Perhaps the SFA may use him as a consultant.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 7, 2012)

Brazillian star Emilson signs for The Rangers.


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## Dodger (Aug 7, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



*Brazillian star *Emilson signs for The Rangers.
		
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:rofl::rofl::whoo:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 8, 2012)

Well he was in 1987.
Wonder who they will dig up next.
Anyone know what last nights crowd was?


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## chris661 (Aug 8, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Anyone know what last nights crowd was?
		
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Seemingly around 38,000. Not bad for a third division outfit. Pity they only get 65% of the gate money when in reality they need it all. I wonder will they still draw crowds like that in 2 months time when they really need it to stave off another insolvency event?


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 8, 2012)

I take it the other 35% goes to East Fife, that can't be bad for Scottish football.


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## Val (Aug 8, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Seemingly around 38,000. Not bad for a third division outfit. Pity they only get 65% of the gate money when in reality they need it all. I wonder will they still draw crowds like that in 2 months time when they really need it to stave off another insolvency event?
		
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The BBC website stated the stadium with 38'000 was packed however by my maths 38'000 is less than 3/4 of 51'082 capacity so in essence it was less than 3/4 full!!!!!

Hardly packed, either that or Charlie Green is cooking the figures


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Hardly packed, either that or Charlie Green is cooking the figures 

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Guy I work with was there last night and when I said "38,000 not bad for a diddy team" he laughed and said it was far more than that....

So you could be right on that last statement.


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## Dodger (Aug 8, 2012)

Fat Sally on the radio saying how nervous he was before last nights game.

Right enough Sally,East Fife are tough tough opposition in such a huge game.


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## StuartD (Aug 8, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Guy I work with was there last night and when I said "38,000 not bad for a diddy team" he laughed and said it was far more than that....

So you could be right on that last statement.
		
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Valentino said:



			The BBC website stated the stadium with 38'000 was packed however by my maths 38'000 is less than 3/4 of 51'082 capacity so in essence it was less than 3/4 full!!!!!

Hardly packed, either that or Charlie Green is cooking the figures 

Click to expand...

I was there last night and had the attendance about 41,000 as i reckoned 10,00 empty seats, therefore would not disagree with 38,000 at all.

Most of the empty seats were in the club deck (which was supposed to be closed but was opened at about 7.45) as it was only half full. The club deck is above the press box and can't be seen from the press box. The other empty areas were the far ends of both enclosures which again can't be seen from press box (below press box) and the far ends of the main stand where the press box is located near the middle. Sitting in the press box the only small spaces to be seen were at the corner between Copland/Govan and in the East Fife Section so from the press box it would look pretty packed when looking at the three stands you could see


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

StuartD said:



			I was there last night and had the attendance about 41,000 as i reckoned 10,00 empty seats, therefore would not disagree with 38,000 at all.

Most of the empty seats were in the club deck (which was supposed to be closed but was opened at about 7.45) as it was only half full. The club deck is above the press box and can't be seen from the press box. The other empty areas were the far ends of both enclosures which again can't be seen from press box (below press box) and the far ends of the main stand where the press box is located near the middle. Sitting in the press box the only small spaces to be seen were at the corner between Copland/Govan and in the East Fife Section so from the press box it would look pretty packed when looking at the three stands you could see
		
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Fair enough Stuart but I am inclined to listen to my mate who wasn't looking at it from the press box or TV, he was in the Copeland Road. He reckoned the it was more than 38160 that's been declared. Surely if it's 41000 then it should be reported as 41000, they all have to be counted in... surely?


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## chris661 (Aug 8, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			they all have to be counted in... surely?
		
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The lower division teams have a history of fans jumping over the barriers


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

chris661 said:



			The lower division teams have a history of fans jumping over the barriers 

Click to expand...

That'll be what it is Chris. We may need to find these chancers and get them in to the Rio Olympics high jump comp.


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## StuartD (Aug 8, 2012)

Depends on where you sit in the Copland Road. As you move further back less and less of the main stand becomes visable. Even if you are in the front at the main stand side you would not see much of the club deck. I was sitting right in middle of the front section behind the goal and the general consensus around me was that there was 10,000 empty seats at a rough guess, which was only 3000 out. We could not see most of the rear of the Copland road but just guessed it was full. If you look on forums opinion seems to split right down the middle. All turnstiles are electronic at ibrox it is very easy to keep a check on numbers.

The barriers are full height from ground to ceiling and impossible to jump over. Most of us can barely fit through them as it stands


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## Val (Aug 8, 2012)

So do we agree it was not packed then?


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## Alan (Aug 8, 2012)

Still 40000 short to break even this season. Rangers need 80000 every game to balance the books, How much does Ibrox hold? 

Admin again by Febuary.


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2012)

It depends on which set of books you choose to put the correct attendance and receipts in


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 8, 2012)

38,000 is still better than many EPL teams.
Quite a few don't even have that capacity.
Great for a diddy team.


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## HughJars (Aug 8, 2012)

StuartD said:



			I was there last night
		
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commiserations, I hope you get well soon


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Thought it was really odd and funny reading in my paper today _The Rangers FC 4 East Fife 0

_In the Scottish Communities Cup First Round

Bizarre - but there you go.


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## BelliedWedge (Aug 9, 2012)

114 pages on a golf forum about Rangers. Obsessed much?


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## Mungoscorner (Aug 9, 2012)

BelliedWedge said:



			114 pages on a golf forum about Rangers. Obsessed much?
		
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Sadly, some peoples hatred knows no bounds.


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## chris661 (Aug 9, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			Sadly, some peoples hatred knows no bounds.
		
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Hatred? So the biggest scandal/story in Scottish, possibly even British, football isn't worth discussion.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2012)

No hatred on this thread.
Perhaps a lot of curiosity, a bit of revenge, a wee bit of sympathy and a knowledge curve for some of our neighbours.

Thanks guys it's been a good journey.


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## Dodger (Aug 10, 2012)

Hope they manage to get into the right lane as they head North ....:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 11, 2012)

Ohh.... and an awful lot of humour

Nice one Dodger


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 11, 2012)

Superpally and Green to be charged by the SFA.

Green about his laughable bigotry claim.
Superpally about naming the SFA delegate panel who ruled against Old Rangers. 

Both will get a good scolding IMO.


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## thecraw (Aug 11, 2012)

Come on Peeeeeeeeeeterheid!



hahahahhahahahhahahhahahhahahah


6 minutes left or at least until the Old Farm referee decides that they have had enough chances to equalise or even win.


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## thecraw (Aug 11, 2012)

Surprise. Blatant foul on the keeper for Rangers leveller then low and behold +3 minutes.


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## chris661 (Aug 11, 2012)

thecraw; said:
			
		


			the Old Farm
		
Click to expand...

Is dead now so let's leave it at that. 

On another note 


Bahahahahahahahahahahaha

Aye they will canter back up the leagues.


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## Kaizer_Soze (Aug 11, 2012)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

that is all


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 11, 2012)

Rangers started the season in promising form, getting a draw at Peterhead. They played to the final whistle, which will have pleased Ally. Looks like being a cracking season for them!!!


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## Dodger (Aug 11, 2012)

Give the fatman a ten year contract.


Diddy team.:lol:


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## Dodger (Aug 11, 2012)

In fairness these International, full-time, The Rangers players didn't have any pre-season games


Whilst Peterhead's part-timers have played Inverurie Loco Works, Turriff and Huntly !!:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Yer Maw (Aug 12, 2012)

Give them a break.  They're a new team finding their feet a bit like Gretna were.  Except Gretna won something :rofl: I think we should ask 'The Rangers' fans who their 'big team' is going to be for the next few years!!  Quality stuff.  Wait and see how long before the loyal fans fade away after weeks of dross, leaving the genuine fans to be the ones who will build it back up. I'm hoping the bigots fade into the background with no team to regularly spout their vile venom at.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 12, 2012)

Looks like  name changes coming
The Sports Direct Rangers.
Playing their matches at Dunlop Park.


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

Yer Maw said:



			Wait and see how long before the loyal fans fade away after weeks of dross, leaving the genuine fans to be the ones who will build it back up. I'm hoping the bigots fade into the background with no team to regularly spout their vile venom at.
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely hope this happens from all fans throughout Scotland and not just the previous old firm teams. However I feel it is almost an inevitability that things will just carry in as before which is a shame as there was a real chance to do something positive for a change.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 12, 2012)

Chris
As you probably know the main trouble with the OF matches is the travelling support from NI.
For those not in the know hundreds of busses come off the Cairnryan ferry to attend games at Celtic Park and Ibrox.
When both teams play at home they have to arrange seperate ferries.

I cannot see The Rangers NI supporters paying all that money to watch 2/3 division football for 3 years so hopefully there will be a change in attitude. Once The Rangers return to top flight football it may be different.

Also, The Leagues and SFA would always favour OF teams against other clubs in all sorts of ways from refereeing decisions to match dates..
I think that deference has gone now and we will see a much fairer League.


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## thecraw (Aug 12, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Chris
As you probably know the main trouble with the OF matches is the travelling support from NI.
For those not in the know hundreds of busses come off the Cairnryan ferry to attend games at Celtic Park and Ibrox.
When both teams play at home they have to arrange seperate ferries.

I cannot see The Rangers NI supporters paying all that money to watch 2/3 division football for 3 years so hopefully there will be a change in attitude. Once The Rangers return to top flight football it may be different.

Also, The Leagues and SFA would always favour OF teams against other clubs in all sorts of ways from refereeing decisions to match dates..
I think that deference has gone now and we will see a much fairer League.
		
Click to expand...




Absolute horse manure. West of Scotland and Scotland in general has enough idiots and bigots that cause trouble themselves. To main the main problem is the Irish is a crazy statement.


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## Dodger (Aug 12, 2012)

thecraw said:





Absolute horse manure. West of Scotland and Scotland in general has enough idiots and bigots that cause trouble themselves. To main the main problem is the Irish is a crazy statement.
		
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You beat me to it Crawford.....Doon your statement is utter crap.


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

You two beat me to it. Crap of the highest order. I was born and raised in the west of scotland and move to Donegal near the border and Derry, there are more than enough idiots from both sides in each place and a couple of hundred comin from here to there do not cause all the problems. The don't help the situation but are not solely responsible.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 12, 2012)

Probably should not have used the word 'main' but the flashpoints in OF games in recent years have generally been NI issues.


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## Farneyman (Aug 12, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Probably should not have used the word 'main' but the flashpoints in OF games in recent years have generally been NI issues.
		
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the most rediculous post ever. .clown


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 12, 2012)

Well guys we shall just have to wait a couple of years and see who is right or wrong.


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## smange (Aug 12, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Probably should not have used the word 'main' but the flashpoints in OF games in recent years have generally been NI issues.
		
Click to expand...

Load of nonsense mate.....I live just outside Derry and used to live in the city. 

Not sure if you know but it was the Apprentice Boys march here yesterday and there were far more bigots over from Scotland for the march, both bands and followers, than there are travel over to Old Firm games and you know what???

Most of the trouble and hatred spouted during the march is from the Scottish contingent........yes N.I has plenty idiots on both sides but to suggest its the people from here who travel over that are responsible for the bothers is way off the mark. Yes, some of them do contribute and god knows theres more than enough trouble over here at this time of the year.

I spent 20 years following Dunfermline Athletic round the country and any time I heard sectarian comments it was from Scottish people. Your kidding yourself if you think Scotland doesnt have a bigotry issue....

By the way im Scottish and therefore not just saying this to defend N.I people


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## Dodger (Aug 12, 2012)

It truly amazes me that people think that the sectarian problem in Scotland is a problem borne out of issues outside our land.

A phrase including the words sand and head come to mind.

It is a huge problem and one that is not solely attributable to the Old Firm and the fact that people think we do not have an issue for me is one of the huge factors as to why we have the bloody issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:angry:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 12, 2012)

You are joking.The odd Orange march I have witnessed in Scotland [not by choice] has had more police attending than participants or spectators. They are a living advert for yesterdays people.


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## munro007 (Aug 12, 2012)

Doon is talking the biggest load of balderdash i have heard in years. I really think you need to stop smoking that funny stuff. Hahahaha : )


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## smange (Aug 12, 2012)

And to add insult to injury, step forward Scotland manager Craig Levein

Ian Black has been picked in the latest Scotland squad????

Not good enough to be picked when playing for Caley Thistle in the SPL, not good enough to be picked while starring for Hearts in the SPL but is now good enough to be picked while playing for The Rangers in the 3rd division??

The SFA just cant help itself pandering to them can it?

Mr Levein, you are an arse!!


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## Dodger (Aug 12, 2012)

smange said:



			And to add insult to injury, step forward Scotland manager Craig Levein

Ian Black has been picked in the latest Scotland squad????

Not good enough to be picked when playing for Caley Thistle in the SPL, not good enough to be picked while starring for Hearts in the SPL but is now good enough to be picked while playing for The Rangers in the 3rd division??

The SFA just cant help itself pandering to them can it?

Mr Levein, you are an arse!!
		
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Avril is an absolute dick of a manager.

He stated Wallace wouldn't be in because of where he was playing then picks Black.


"The best scenario is for players to be playing at the top level to play international football. It makes it so much easier to step from one to the other. It is very difficult for anyone playing in the Third Division in Scotland to be up to the speed of an international match. No way am I closing the door at all I just think it is more difficult for Lee to get in now than it was previously so while he's in the 3rd I will be leaving him out"

The man is a walking contradiction and while he is in charge I don't see me travelling to support my country.....an utter fud of a man and a man who has done nothing in his managerial career to warrant being in the position.

I am almost hoping we get humped by the Aussies so we can get shot of this prick,mind you knowing the SFA they would probably appoint Fat Sally.


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## smange (Aug 12, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Avril is an absolute dick of a manager.

He stated Wallace wouldn't be in because of where he was playing then picks Black.


"The best scenario is for players to be playing at the top level to play international football. It makes it so much easier to step from one to the other. It is very difficult for anyone playing in the Third Division in Scotland to be up to the speed of an international match. No way am I closing the door at all I just think it is more difficult for Lee to get in now than it was previously so while he's in the 3rd I will be leaving him out"

The man is a walking contradiction and while he is in charge I don't see me travelling to support my country.....an utter fud of a man and a man who has done nothing in his managerial career to warrant being in the position.

I am almost hoping we get humped by the Aussies so we can get shot of this prick,mind you knowing the SFA they would probably appoint Fat Sally.

Click to expand...

Seen that quote earlier as well Dodger.

Never thought Levein should have got job in first place then we had the debacle of the Czech match where he played without a striker on the pitch and now he picks a player from the 3rd division after that statement. Add into the mix all the poor results under his stewardship and its hard to understand how he is not under pressure to resign.

Scottish Football is getting harder and harder to stay interested in while it stumbles from one farce to another..

Although I rather enjoyed the Pars humping Cowden yesterday:clap:


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## Dodger (Aug 15, 2012)

Chuck saying that all debts to Scottish clubs have been paid........

Arabs say he's a liar.....yet again the hun biased media fail to check the facts before printing their pish.

Next he'll be claiming all VAT & Tax & N.I. is getting paid on time.

http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=4286&cd=2012#.UCtUQrkC2Hs.facebook


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2012)

Hearts to receive payment in June 2013...not exactly paid!

I don't have a problem with Black being picked on his footballing skills based on last season. I do have a problem with a 3rd Div The Rangers player being picked. Always thought that Levien was doing a decent job, not so sure now.
At least he is his own man and not the normal SFA lickspittle.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 15, 2012)

Still surprised that they have been able to call themselves THE Rangers - because quite evidently they are no such thing.  They might like to think they are - but they would wouldn't they.  

Even if RFC (IA) *was* the first 'Rangers' football club in the world, and therefore might have had a reasonable claim to be THE Rangers - that club is now deceased - it is no more.  The new club is a new club - the likes of Cove or Berwick Rangers or indeed Queens Park Rangers are all older than the new lot.  

So somewhere out there, there is the oldest Rangers football club in the world - and they *might *be able to call themselves THE Rangers.  But this club with home ground Ibrox (for the time being and until the liquidators tell Dumb&Dumber that the sale of it to Green is cancelled) most certainly aren't.

What a farce - what a shambles - what a disgrace.


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## StuartD (Aug 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Chuck saying that all debts to Scottish clubs have been paid........

Arabs say he's a liar.....yet again the hun biased media fail to check the facts before printing their pish.

Next he'll be claiming all VAT & Tax & N.I. is getting paid on time.

http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=4286&cd=2012#.UCtUQrkC2Hs.facebook

Click to expand...

Charles Green statement in full on Rangers' website states  that ""Furthermore, the Club was given a written commitment from the SPL in May that it would settle an outstanding debt to Dundee Utd". http://www.rangers.co.uk/index.php/news/headlines/item/1731-scottish-football-debts-settled

Not sure why money would come from the SPL when it was a scottish cup game. I can only presume that the money would be paid from Rangers share of TV revenue.

Dundee Utd's statement is not exactly clear on who they were expecting the money to be paid from, only that they have not yet received it. Expect another stand off between Green and the SPL. Time to watch other websites of clubs that were due money to see if they release a statement that they have not yet been paid



Doon frae Troon said:



			Hearts to receive payment in June 2013...not exactly paid!
		
Click to expand...

It seems the payment terms for the Black deal need to be spelt out again. Â£500K was due in June 2012. This SHOULD have been one of the debts paid by Charles Green that he eluded to in his statement. The final 300k is due in June 2013 and is therefore not a debt as of yet. Why should it be paid early?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 15, 2012)

btw - you won't be surprised to learn that I support one of those 'diddy' clubs that Green & Sally think comprise a bunch of bigots who are jealous of the old Rangers (jealous?- ROFLMAO) and that who's clubs supporters want to go bust.  Nice.


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## Dodger (Aug 15, 2012)

As of now all footballing debts have been repaid to Scottish Clubs is what Chuck said.

Not true.

And it seems that from his latest archive rights rant he is pandering up to the stereotypical hun and those stereotypical huns are buying into it....................master stroke from Chuck,it's just a shame he's spouting pish.


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## StuartD (Aug 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			As of now all footballing debts have been repaid to Scottish Clubs is what Chuck said.

Not true.
		
Click to expand...

Don't disagree with you. If he believed the SPL were going to pay Dundee UTD he should have checked that they had already done so before shouting that the debts had all been paid, or at least quantified his statement saying the SPL were going to pay Dundee Utd.

Don't go in for the Rangers biased media nonsense you spout BUT with yesterday's "Green has Paid" and todays "Green has not paid" articles, they clearly need to do more leg work.

It took all of 50 seconds to check Greens statements and see the words about the SPL paying the debt. But as of yet nobody seems to be asking the questions that need asked.

EDIT Maybe the BBC are!!!

THey have just tweeted "SPL cash flow problem means clubs still await vital broadcasting/sponsorship payment that was due at start of month"

and 

"The #SFL are also due to be paid by #SPL but have been told they'll have to wait"


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## Dodger (Aug 15, 2012)

StuartD said:



			Don't disagree with you. If he believed the SPL were going to pay Dundee UTD he should have checked that they had already done so before shouting that the debts had all been paid, or at least quantified his statement saying the SPL were going to pay Dundee Utd.

Don't go in for the Rangers biased media nonsense you  spout  BUT with yesterday's "Green has Paid" and todays "Green has not paid" articles, they clearly need to do more leg work.

*It took all of 50 seconds to check Greens statements and see the words about the SPL paying the debt. But as of yet nobody seems to be asking the questions that need asked*

Click to expand...

And why is that I wonder?

And you DO NOT go in for the media bias that I talk of (not spout,spouting is often incorrect).......:smirk:


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## Dodger (Aug 15, 2012)

And while I am having my lunchtime whinge what about Avril's latest one??

Calls Black up,then tells the world he wouldn't have bar the fact we have injuries so was basically desperate......great for the lads confidence.

Then names his team as he does 24 hrs in advance like he is some sort of tactical genius and names Caldwell in midfield!!!??

Black would have played IMO if it had not been for the fact he has had serious abuse for his inclusion.

Avril is a buffoon of a man and I hope we get pumped 4-0 tonight and they get shot of him.....he's a total fud.


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## StuartD (Aug 15, 2012)

Calling up Black was strange after his comments about Wallace. We have plenty other midfielders he could have called up but we are short on natural left backs which makes Blacks inclusion and Wallace being left out even more bizarre.

It was said on here  that he was pandering to RFC by calling Black up. Donâ€™t really agree with that as what Rangers get out of it, only the possibility of injury to the player. Also it has been said he now gets a call up because he plays for one of the "old firm". Black would have been in the USA as a hearts player if he had not gone for a hernia op, Lebien said as much on TV at the Scottish Cup final.

I have no time for Levien either (something we can both agree on) he has had a pretty easy ride from the press compared to the abuse others have had. See he has now banned the Daily Record, that could result in more of the press turning against him and be the start of his downfall


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## StuartD (Aug 15, 2012)

Dodger said:



			And why is that I wonder?

And you DO NOT go in for the media bias that I talk of (not spout,spouting is often incorrect).......:smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Before articles were printed yesterday praising Green , questions should have been asked of the clubs to check if they had received payment.

Before internet articles were made today knocking green for not paying, questions should have been asked of the SPL if they had agreed to make the payment as claimed by Green.

Either way questions should have been asked instead of just printing bits of press releases


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## StuartD (Aug 15, 2012)

Looks like STV have done a bit of digging

*"Rangers insist the Scottish Premier League are to blame over an outstanding amount due from the club to Dundee United.*
The Ibrox side waived any claim to Â£2.55m in prize money from the league for the 2011/12 season, as part of the agreement which saw them granted the transfer of the club's Scottish FA membership.
Rangers also agreed to settle all football debts, this week making payments to Celtic and Hearts. Responsibility for a circa Â£66,000 debt to Dundee United, relating to gate receipts from a Scottish Cup tie last campaign, was taken on by the Scottish FA and SPL, Charles Green believes.
STV has learned that half of the approximate Â£66,000 share of gate receipts was paid by the Scottish Football Association last season after money due to Rangers was diverted to Tannadice.
Dundee United though, issued a statement on Wednesday morning saying that they were yet to receive an amount, believed to be in the region of Â£31,000, following Rangers chief executive Green's claim that all football debts had now been paid.
STV understands the SPL does not believe that there is a firm agreement to make the remaining payment. However, the amount remains unpaid and Rangers have reiterated that they have a written agreement with the SPL for the league to pay United from prize money from the 2011/12 season.
Should agreement not be reached over payment then the Scottish FA could be asked to act as arbitrators by Dundee United."


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## chris661 (Aug 15, 2012)

Why would the *SPL* pay for a *SFA* debt? This, to me, is just chuckie pandering to the more "militant" element of the rangers support.


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## Dodger (Aug 15, 2012)

The debt is still owed by Rangers until it is paid, its irrelevant who said they were going to pay it. 

It's like my mate owing me money so he says he's going to pay my mortgage for me this month. If he doesn't, I can't say to the bank that my mate says he was going to pay it so you should chase him. They would tell me to feck off, the debt is mine.

Part of the newco agreement was the Green said he would honour all outstanding oldco debts and that hasn't happened.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2012)

Goodness me, Scotland beat The Aussies 3-1.
Didn't see that one coming.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 20, 2012)

Rumour has reached my ears that Chuck Green is planning to fudge the ticket prices if The Rangers draw a SPL club at home in any cups. 
Effectively along the lines of; Home fans buy a match-day programme for Â£14 and pay Â£1 at the gate for entry. So the Â£14 goes directly to club coffers and the Â£1 gate receipt is split between the clubs 50-50. 

Seems he is saying something along the lines of "you didn't want us, you ain't making any money from us"... 
Does he have the cajones to carry this out?


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## chris661 (Aug 20, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Rumour has reached my ears that Chuck Green is planning to fudge the ticket prices if The Rangers draw a SPL club at home in any cups. 
Effectively along the lines of; Home fans buy a match-day programme for Â£14 and pay Â£1 at the gate for entry. So the Â£14 goes directly to club coffers and the Â£1 gate receipt is split between the clubs 50-50. 

Seems he is saying something along the lines of "you didn't want us, you ain't making any money from us"... 
Does he have the cajones to carry this out?
		
Click to expand...

It wouldn't surprise me TBH, he seems to be playing to the lowest common denominator. It will all come crashing down, Bill Miller reckoned there was a Â£30 million black hole WITH spl income. Ok a lot of the high earners are away but the underlying problems are still there.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 20, 2012)

I read that they have sold 33,000 season tickets.  Does some of the income from that count as gate money if they allow the ST to be valid for cup games as well.  

Besides - haven't TicketUs already bought the season tickets for this and the next couple of years.  Doesn't seem right that TU have got nothing for their money and won't get anything back - unless BDO do something drastic around liquidating the oldco.  And yet The Rangers go and sell the STs again.

Anyway - Queens Park looking at a bumper pay day when The Rangers come to town.  Full house of 52,500 possible when their average home gate is 750.   Extra Â£775,000 in the bank that day.  Not bad for an amateur club.  What the heck will they do with it?


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## Dodger (Aug 20, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Rumour has reached my ears that Chuck Green is planning to fudge the ticket prices if The Rangers draw a SPL club at home in any cups. 
Effectively along the lines of; Home fans buy a match-day programme for Â£14 and pay Â£1 at the gate for entry. So the Â£14 goes directly to club coffers and the Â£1 gate receipt is split between the clubs 50-50. 

Seems he is saying something along the lines of "you didn't want us, you ain't making any money from us"... 
Does he have the cajones to carry this out?
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure that cannot happen as the gate prices is agreed between both clubs. 

No doubt a FF or RM 'my pal says this is definitely happening' quote.


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## Val (Aug 20, 2012)

What happens if no one buys a programme? Expensive gamble.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 20, 2012)

Valentino said:



			What happens if no one buys a programme? Expensive gamble.
		
Click to expand...

Think the premise was if you didn't buy the programme you don't get the reduced gate fee. 
Dodger, not sure what you are hinting at there, but the guy that passed it on to me at work is a contractor that's colleague is currently working with Sevco on a "rebuilding" programme of work.


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## Dodger (Aug 20, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Think the premise was if you didn't buy the programme you don't get the reduced gate fee. 
Dodger, not sure what you are hinting at there, but the guy that passed it on to me at work is a contractor that's colleague is currently working with Sevco on a "rebuilding" programme of work.
		
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Greig it cannot happen trust me.The contractor is speaking pish,either that or Chuck doesn't know the ins and outs which is probably nearer the truth!:lol:


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## GreiginFife (Aug 20, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Greig it cannot happen trust me.The contractor is speaking pish,either that or Chuck doesn't know the ins and outs which is probably nearer the truth!:lol:
		
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Think it's the latter, the contractor is a Cowdenbeath fan with no vested interest in whether it's true or not.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 20, 2012)

Because of that, are we are all wishing for The Rangers to draw a Div3 club away in the cups..?


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## smange (Aug 20, 2012)

Falkirk have suspended their stadium announcer after he referred to them as "the sevco franchise" after receiving many complaints from The Rangers fans??

 How on earth did the The Rangers fans who "dont do walking away" hear the announcements at Falkirks ground when they were all inside Ibrox watching their team?  Has Scottish football got so humourless and petty that people go out of their way to complain about them being called "the sevco franchise"

And Falkirk F.C, you should be ashamed of yourself for suspending the guy.......wouldnt have anything to do with the fact your playing them this week and your looking to squeeze as much cash out of "the sevco franchise" as possible would it and therefore worried that the petty little tale-tellers might boycott your game. 

Hang your heads in shame Falkirk F.C

http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/index.ph...320&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


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## StuartD (Aug 20, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Pretty sure that cannot happen as the gate prices is agreed between both clubs.
		
Click to expand...

Is the correct answer


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 20, 2012)

Elvis [Stephen] Pressley would have heard the announcment...he's a Rangers fan!
Perhaps he complained.


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## smange (Aug 20, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Elvis [Stephen] Pressley would have heard the announcment...he's a Rangers fan!
Perhaps he complained.
		
Click to expand...

You could be right there.......He is after all going to be looking for a new job very soon judging by his teams performances and getting the stadium announcer the bullit opens up a vacancy for him


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## thecraw (Aug 20, 2012)

smange said:



			You could be right there.......He is after all going to be looking for a new job very soon judging by his teams performances and getting the stadium announcer the bullit opens up a vacancy for him
		
Click to expand...

I think Pressley has the right credentials to go far in management. He was also very vocal and outspoken against Rangers being parachuted into the 1st division.


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## smange (Aug 20, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I think Pressley has the right credentials to go far in management. He was also very vocal and outspoken against Rangers being parachuted into the 1st division.
		
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Yep....relegating Falkirk is excellent managerial success in my book, especially after being so vocal and insisting "we will not be relegated while im in charge" or words to that effect.

Great management credentials if you ask me and hopefully he will be there for many years to come seeing as he doing such a great job there


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## Mungoscorner (Aug 20, 2012)

Rangers 5-1 East Stirling

Attendance  49,118

No bad for a team that has no players and no fans.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 21, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			Rangers 5-1 East Stirling

Attendance  49,118

No bad for a team that has no players and no fans.
		
Click to expand...

...playing a team of guys earning Â£50 a week.  Yes - not too bad.


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## Dodger (Aug 21, 2012)

smange said:



			Yep....relegating Falkirk is excellent managerial success in my book, especially after being so vocal and insisting "we will not be relegated while im in charge" or words to that effect.

Great management credentials if you ask me and hopefully he will be there for many years to come seeing as he doing such a great job there
		
Click to expand...

You took the words from my mouth.

I am interested in these 'credentials'...??


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## bladeplayer (Aug 21, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			Rangers 5-1 East Stirling

Attendance  49,118

No bad for a team that has no players and no fans.
		
Click to expand...

The result .. well in fairness youd kind of expect results like that most weeks in this division ..

 interesting stat tho that nearly 2,000 more "fans" watched the rangers game than the total 19 other games in Scotland on saturday .. if they keep winning im sure this will keep up but it will be interesting to see what happens if the results falter ..


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## smange (Aug 21, 2012)

Mungoscorner said:



			Rangers 5-1 East Stirling

Attendance  49,118

No bad for a team that has no players and no fans.
		
Click to expand...

Yep truly magnificent result against the team that has finished as the worst team in Scotland 6 times in last 10 years and twice as the second worst team.

Brilliant performance from a club that has a few internationalists in its squad and a couple of players who earn more in a week than East Stirling pay their whole team in a year.

Really well done, I take my hat off to The Rangers for pulling out a performance like that.


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## smange (Aug 21, 2012)

Falkirk chairmans response to the stadium announcer getting suspended

"I'm afraid what is harmles banter to some is not acceptable to others.

Why did we take action over Saturday's announcement? First, as a member of the SFA we must abide by SFA rules. What was said could land us with a hefty fine. Second, our primary duty at matches is safety. We cannot antagonise a potentially volatile opposing support.

I hope you understand why we had to move swiftly and take appropriate action. I would now like us to focus on our team and what we do on the pitch.

Regards
Martin Ritchie"

Haha, so its OK to refer to The Rangers fans as "potentially volatile" but not to call the club by their (if im not mistaken) registered name?

Good call Mr Ritchie, way to go.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 21, 2012)

Careful, McCoisty will be wanting to know the announcers address next.


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## birdieman (Aug 26, 2012)

Quite a good result for Rangers today.......Berwick Rangers!

I drove up the A1 about 11 this morning and I kid you not, going past Torness on the northward side of the road there was a father and son dressed in Celtic tops holding up a green champions banner between them, just to wind up any coaches of Rangers fans heading down to Berwick!

Thought it was quite funny but have people not got anything better to do?:rofl:


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## Dodger (Aug 26, 2012)

Not sure how long fat Ally can continue to hide behind who he was.An utterly clueless gaffer who likes to talk deeply like he knows what he's doing when in reality he's way out of his depth even in the pub league his club are in now.

Continue to back him Sevco fans...he's doing a sterling job!!

The laughter moments just continue to roll in.


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 26, 2012)

What was the score?



Dodger said:



			Not sure how long fat Ally can continue to hide behind who he was.An utterly clueless gaffer who likes to talk deeply like he knows what he's doing when in reality he's way out of his depth even in the pub league his club are in now.

Continue to back him Sevco fans...he's doing a sterling job!!

The laughter moments just continue to roll in.
		
Click to expand...


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## Imurg (Aug 26, 2012)

1-1.......


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 26, 2012)

Rangers going well then 2 away draws, Coisty unbeaten away. He'll be Sir Ally soon.



Imurg said:



			1-1.......
		
Click to expand...


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## chris661 (Aug 26, 2012)

Go to the third division the fans said, it will be a breeze we will win it at a canter they said. 







Not really going to plan is it.


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## Dodger (Aug 26, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Go to the third division the fans said, it will be a breeze we will win it at a canter they said. 







Not really going to plan is it.
		
Click to expand...

Huge,huge game next week..they really do not want to lose touch with the league leaders in what was supposed to be a one horse race...


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 26, 2012)

Is it one or two teams who are promoted, or is 2nd place in a play off?

At least they can boast they are undefeated and league top scorers.


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## Yer Maw (Aug 26, 2012)

Well some managers learn to cut their teeth in the lower leagues to prove their worth first.  Coisty was always out of his depth as a manager and amazed he lasted this long.  I think I might actually watch the game next week.  Could be hilarious.  A six pointer at this stage of the season!!

The Pars andEverton going well all that matters!


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## Dodger (Aug 26, 2012)

:rofl:


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## smange (Aug 26, 2012)

And Berwick had a perfectly good goal disallowed near the end which would probably have won it for them

Yet another dodgy decision from the ref benefiting them.........that's 2 in 2 games.......some things never change do they.


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## Dodger (Aug 26, 2012)

smange said:



			And Berwick had a perfectly good goal disallowed near the end which would probably have won it for them

Yet another dodgy decision from the ref benefiting them.........that's 2 in 2 games.......some things never change do they.
		
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A truly horrific decision.Berwick would have fully deserved the win Smange.Sevco's lot look like they are expecting to turn up and walk every game,yes they will win the league at a canter but for me there will be many more sub standard performances like this to come and especially if that clown stays in charge which I do hope he does.Regardless how poorly they perform I cannot see how Chuck can chuck the fat lad....not now he's an investor.Just do the right thing and give him a 5 year contract!:lol:


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## smange (Aug 26, 2012)

Dodger said:



			A truly horrific decision.Berwick would have fully deserved the win Smange.Sevco's lot look like they are expecting to turn up and walk every game,yes they will win the league at a canter but for me there will be many more sub standard performances like this to come and especially if that clown stays in charge which I do hope he does.Regardless how poorly they perform I cannot see how Chuck can chuck the fat lad....not now he's an investor.Just do the right thing and give him a 5 year contract!:lol:
		
Click to expand...

With decisions like todays and the one against Peterhead when their goal should have been chalked off they will win the league at a canter. But if the refs can get a set of baws and make the right decisions on very straight forward calls they may struggle a bit.

They are not going to enjoy playing on these pitches on a tuesday night once the winter has kicked in and the pitches are like mudbaths and you cant pass a ball on them. Thats when they are going to really struggle and need to learn to fight for the points instead of turning up and thinking these wee teams will just roll over


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## Iaing (Aug 26, 2012)

On a topical note...

I see that Lance Armstrong is to be stripped of his Tour De France titles.
I have now decided to call myself " The Lance Armstrong", buy his bike, claim his titles and demand entry into next years Tour De France.
If anyone objects to this I will call them a bigot!
We don't do cycling away!!


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## bladeplayer (Aug 27, 2012)

Just curious,  is this thread one of the most viewed/replied to ever on the forum ? if not , what was the best / most subscribed to does anybody know ..


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## Lanark_Golfer (Aug 27, 2012)

Search for the Essex Lion has been called off, the cost would have been millions.

Rangers once chased 11 Lions, they were never caught, cost was Liquidation!


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## Dodger (Aug 27, 2012)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			Search for the Essex Lion has been called off, the cost would have been millions.

Rangers once chased 11 Lions, they were never caught, cost was Liquidation!
		
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:lol:

Class,pure class.


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## chris661 (Aug 27, 2012)

Disappointed to see kirk clubfoot has been released. Thought he was outstanding in the first few games for the new club. <shifty>


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## Dodger (Aug 27, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Disappointed to see kirk clubfoot has been released. Thought he was outstanding in the first few games for the new club. <shifty>
		
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I see from the cup draw the mechanics meet the tools.:lol:

Cracking place Forres but I am sure it will sadly be moved from home ground to somewhere soulless like Inverness as it only hold 1500 or so.


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## Val (Aug 27, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I see from the cup draw the mechanics meet the tools.:lol:

Cracking place Forres but I am sure it will sadly be moved from home ground to somewhere soulless like Inverness as it only hold 1500 or so.
		
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Colleague from my work plays up front for the mechanics. Can't wait to see the tie of the round.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 28, 2012)

Karma comes round again.
Earlier post re Green trying to fix The wee Rangers match prices if they draw an SPL team at home.

I think I said that it will serve them right to draw Invererie Loco away.
Close!


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## StuartD (Aug 28, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Karma comes round again.
Earlier post re Green trying to fix The wee Rangers match prices if they draw an SPL team at home.

I think I said that it will serve them right to draw Invererie Loco away.
Close!
		
Click to expand...

Not even remotely close!!

The rumour was a lot of rubbish, as stated on here, as cup game prices must be agreed between both clubs. This is something Green would have been well aware off as Rangers had already played two cup games before this "rumour" appeared. Rangers were always going to get a so called "smaller" club and not an SPL club as its only 3rd division and non-league clubs in the draw anyway



Wishaw_Hacker said:



			Search for the Essex Lion has been called off, the cost would have been millions.

Rangers once chased 11 Lions, they were never caught, cost was Liquidation!
		
Click to expand...

Ooooh very good. I like that one


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 28, 2012)

Stuart 
I meant the distance between Forres and Inverurie!!


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## Dodger (Aug 29, 2012)




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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 2, 2012)

Just to let The Rangers know what is happening in the big league.
Ross County have now played over 3,500 minutes [39 games] without a defeat.


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## Largsgolf1974 (Sep 2, 2012)

Deary deary me, 4th tier of Scottish football and rangers still get 123 pages on a golf forum????


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 2, 2012)

It's great fun taking the pee, it'll be in the 1000s by the time they're back in the top flight!!!



Largsgolf1974 said:



			Deary deary me, 4th tier of Scottish football and rangers still get 123 pages on a golf forum????
		
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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 7, 2012)

Seemingly The Rangers have signed Templeton from Hearts.
Crazy, does the lad have no ambition.


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## smange (Sep 7, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Seemingly The Rangers have signed Templeton from Hearts.
Crazy, does the lad have no ambition.
		
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Something people forget when it comes to footballers is that its their job and you cant blame these players for moving on when they have the chance to double/treble or more times their salaries (yes I know they already earn way too much) but their careers are short and sometimes shortened dramatically through injury. 

If you were offered a job with 3 times your current earnings and better perks what would you do?

Also remember, its Scottish football and as has been shown in recent months, is corrupt as can be and im sure these guys know as well as many fans that The Rangers will be back in the top league sooner rather than later.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 7, 2012)

Templeton could easily have moved to a ECL team to measure his ability at the same wages The Rangers are paying him.
He will instead spend 3 years being hooved up in the air by hairy bottomed defenders and will probably be unable to walk straight by 2015.
Scotland cap oot the windae as well.
Silly boy.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 7, 2012)

The tosser doesn't warrant discussion. I thought players ambition was to play top flight football.



Doon frae Troon said:



			Seemingly The Rangers have signed Templeton from Hearts.
Crazy, does the lad have no ambition.
		
Click to expand...


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## Darth Fader (Sep 7, 2012)

Largsgolf1974 said:



			Deary deary me, 4th tier of Scottish football and rangers still get 123 pages on a golf forum????
		
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 Its all the cellic fans, their obsessed with Rangers


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 7, 2012)

Tell you what it is about too many The Rangers fans - they seem to think that by getting 50,000 at Ibroke against Elgin City or whoever - and winning 5-1 - then everything is alright and they would be the Champions of the World - if it wasn't for the fact that bad people have it in for them.  Whatever - fools are easily parted from their money.  And you know - if The Rangers fans have their wish and the current SPL clubs (who of course did the dirty on them) all go bust - then who the friggin' heck are The Rangers going to be playing?  Ah - The Celtic - and...Annan Athletic?


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 8, 2012)

Darth Fader said:



			Its all the cellic fans, their obsessed with Rangers  

Click to expand...

Aye mate,your spot on.

They must trawl the internet and papers every day looking for an excuse to add to this thread.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 8, 2012)

A bit of wishful thinking if you believe they are all Celtic fans!


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## smange (Sep 8, 2012)

I think youll find more posts from fans of other teams than Celtic fans.

I know Rangers fans may find this hard to believe but its not just Celtic fans that have a dislike of Rangers and what they are, sorry were, and what they stood for and also glad to see them punished for years of cheating and tax dodging.


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## Dodger (Sep 10, 2012)

Is Chuck on legal aid?

After reading his latest bout of pish I think he may well be,either that or it was written by a child.


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## StuartD (Sep 11, 2012)

I believe there are a few spare seats in the Copland Road stand that still need shifting


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 12, 2012)

smange said:



			I think youll find more posts from fans of other teams than Celtic fans.

I know Rangers fans may find this hard to believe but its not just Celtic fans that have a dislike of Rangers and what they are, sorry were, and what they stood for and also glad to see them punished for years of cheating and tax dodging.
		
Click to expand...

And I is one of them.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 15, 2012)

Another good away point for Ra People keeps thier promotion hopes alive.

Weekend bragging rights against Celtic as well.


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## Bomber69 (Sep 15, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Another good away point for Ra People keeps thier promotion hopes alive.

Weekend bragging rights against Celtic as well.
		
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Boring..........


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## Iaing (Sep 15, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Boring..........
		
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Funny..........


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## thecraw (Sep 16, 2012)

Iaing said:



			Funny..........
		
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Priceless!


:rofl:


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 16, 2012)

Credit where it's due. They keep picking up a point on tyheir travels,and they won't be far away.


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## Dodger (Sep 16, 2012)

I would love to see what kind of a job the fat lad could do on the same budget as the rest of the teams in the 3rd division.

The huns continue to back their messiah to the hilt though.

Comedy gold.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 16, 2012)

I think there is a film in the making here.
Robert Duvall as the owner of a lowly Scottish fitba team.................................


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## Bomber69 (Sep 16, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think there is a film in the making here.
Robert Duvall as the owner of a lowly Scottish fitba team.................................
		
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Zzzzzz......

Falling asleep now, what happened to your mate with the plastic club in his bag, not forgot about that one. Or was he just taking the piss oot you.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 16, 2012)

Now now Sam, this is a fitba thread!!!


Bomber69 said:



			Zzzzzz......

Falling asleep now, what happened to your mate with the plastic club in his bag, not forgot about that one. Or was he just taking the piss oot you.
		
Click to expand...


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 16, 2012)

Bomber if you had read the thread you would have found out!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 17, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Templeton could easily have moved to a ECL team to measure his ability at the same wages The Rangers are paying him.
He will instead spend 3 years being hooved up in the air by hairy bottomed defenders and will probably be unable to walk straight by 2015.
Scotland cap oot the windae as well.
Silly boy.
		
Click to expand...

...and so after 10mins against the mighty AA, Templeton gets injured and has to be carried to the changing room on a stretcher with an ankle injury (ligaments?).  Ah well laddie - no matter - yer team The Rangers won a heroic battling draw away from home - so unbeaten in the league.

And me's a happy bunny after this weekend as my own 'diddy' team beat Celtic :whoo:


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## Alan (Sep 17, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and so after 10mins against the mighty AA, Templeton gets injured and has to be carried to the changing room on a stretcher with an ankle injury (ligaments?).  Ah well laddie - no matter - yer team The Rangers won a heroic battling draw away from home - so unbeaten in the league.

And me's a happy bunny after this weekend as my own 'diddy' team beat Celtic :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Your a Saints fan, superb, so am I season ticket holder for over thirty years.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 17, 2012)

Alan said:



			Your a Saints fan, superb, so am I season ticket holder for over thirty years.
		
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Absolutely - COYS!


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 18, 2012)

QOS go one up in the big cup game.....it's on BBC ALBA

A tad more exciting than the first half of Real v ManC.


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## bigslice (Sep 18, 2012)

1 1


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## GreiginFife (Sep 18, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			QOS go one up in the big cup game.....it's on BBC ALBA

A tad more exciting than the first half of Real v ManC.
		
Click to expand...

Not for long. Arsenal game is the one to watch just now. Good football on display.


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## Farneyman (Sep 18, 2012)

Some finish to RM MC game. Now for extra time...


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## Dodger (Sep 18, 2012)

But us this no just a diddy cup?:mmm:

Long may the fat lads reign continue!


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## Farneyman (Sep 18, 2012)

Looks like lots of Rangers fans are wearing those blue morph suits...you can hardly see them in the full house crowd lol


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## Dodger (Sep 18, 2012)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Fat lad must surely hold some kind of record for getting pumped out of comps by diddy teams??

Hahaha!!:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 18, 2012)

Oh Dear!
Oot o the Diddier Diddy Cup by a Diddy team.


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## Dodger (Sep 18, 2012)

Oldco knocked oot by the Queen,Newco knocked oot by the Queens!


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## chris661 (Sep 18, 2012)

:rofl: :.rofl : :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: that is all


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## Dodger (Sep 18, 2012)

Rangers will be turning in their grave at that result tonight.

Am unsure how that cup works but do Sevco now drop into the Tennants Sixes group stages??

:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 18, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Oldco knocked oot by the Queen,Newco knocked oot by the Queens!

Click to expand...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ 
Na
Hilarious.


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## SS2 (Sep 19, 2012)

Didn't see the end of the Rangers/QOS game as (a) the Gaelic commentary was really getting on my nerves and (b) Real v Man City was, how can I put this, somewhwta more entertaining ?

Fantastic result for Queens. I know quite a few Doonhamers who will be absolutely delighted.


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## HughJars (Sep 19, 2012)

Best comment I've seen today was from a Hun on the sportsound f/b page - "when does Bobby Ewing come out of the shower?"


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## GreiginFife (Sep 19, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Tennants Sixes group stages??
		
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Aw man, I loved the Tennant's sixes. What a tourney


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## Tommo21 (Sep 19, 2012)

Watched some of it and it was dire.........QOS done well, no, they looked good because rangers were crap. Some players need a rocket. Canny blame the manager for some of that shockng play.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm starting to feel a wee bit sorry for them now.
Perhaps we should lay off for a bit?


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## Dodger (Sep 19, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I'm starting to feel a wee bit sorry for them now.
Perhaps we should lay off for a bit?
		
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Are you Jim Traynor Doon??

Never.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 19, 2012)

ROFLMAO - The Rangers can't buy a win in the PawnShop cup.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 19, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			ROFLMAO - The Rangers can't buy a win in the PawnShop cup.
		
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Probably a good thing, if they won it it would probably end back up in a Ramsdens for cash anyway!


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## StuartD (Sep 19, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I'm starting to feel a wee bit sorry for them now.
Perhaps we should lay off for a bit?
		
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Best post on this thread!!!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 19, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Probably a good thing, if they won it it would probably end back up in a Ramsdens for cash anyway!
		
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And if it didn't, then when Sevco Franchise FC go bust it might get flogged off by the liquidators as an asset.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 19, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I'm starting to feel a wee bit sorry for them now.
Perhaps we should lay off for a bit?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe when we hear some proper apologies from Ibroke, a bit of humility and some admissions that they have brought the situation on themselves, and stop blaming everyone else.


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## thecraw (Sep 19, 2012)

Hahahahahahahaha


I didn't even ken that they were playing last night. Makes me chuckle. Poor Ally will be the first manager sacked in Scotland at this rate.

Superb!


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## chris661 (Sep 19, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe when we hear some proper apologies from Ibroke, a bit of humility and some admissions that they have brought the situation on themselves, and stop blaming everyone else.
		
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To be fair it was only two men that seems to have caused all the issues although most of the fans when warned about it. Said it was a witch hunt sure when the BBC ran the thing on whyte they were bigots and biased  

I did hear a wee rumour this morning that they are around Â£650,000 in debt already and if the share issue doesn't go quite according to plan then it's curtains, again.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 19, 2012)

I didn't realise Ramsdens was a pawnbrokers [even funnier] I thought they did fish & chips.


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## Dodger (Sep 19, 2012)

Deary me, I see Queen of the South are getting chucked out of the competition in what is an extreme bout of irony, seems they had players on duel contracts, not lodged with the SFA...

one's a brickie,one's a builder,one's an accountant,one's a postie...........


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 25, 2012)

Feeling even more sorry for them now that JJB is bust.
Who's will sell the shirts now?


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## bogside84 (Sep 25, 2012)

I would like to wish Ally a belated 50th birthday. Just 4 short of the World record 54 Championship titles.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 25, 2012)

He seems to have aged a lot in the last couple of years.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 25, 2012)

I bet he wished he was still with Sue Barker!!!!



Doon frae Troon said:



			He seems to have aged a lot in the last couple of years.
		
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## stublue2701 (Sep 25, 2012)

Seems to be a lot of hatred on here for Rangers.  I think Charles Green has played a blinder and is going to expose this whole sorry episode for what it is (a witch hunt).

The SPL needs a strong Rangers and Celtic.  You only have to look at Celtics attendances of recent times for proof of that (13000 at parkhead tonight is a perfect example).


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## Iaing (Sep 25, 2012)

If, by saying Mr. Green's playing a blinder, you mean by alienating The Rangers even more from the rest of Scottish football than they were, you're probably right.


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## stublue2701 (Sep 25, 2012)

He's playing a blinder by showing the Lawell run witch hunt up for what it is.  I think he's got the SFA/SPL on the ropes.  No statement today after their 48 hour summit at Dunblane?  Seems a little strange to me.

I think the next few days could be very interesting.


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## chris661 (Sep 26, 2012)

stublue2701 said:



			Seems to be a lot of hatred on here for Rangers.  I think Charles Green has played a blinder and is going to expose this whole sorry episode for what it is (a witch hunt).

The SPL needs a strong Rangers and Celtic.  You only have to look at Celtics attendances of recent times for proof of that (13000 at parkhead tonight is a perfect example).
		
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stublue2701 said:



			He's playing a blinder by showing the Lawell run witch hunt up for what it is.  I think he's got the SFA/SPL on the ropes.  No statement today after their 48 hour summit at Dunblane?  Seems a little strange to me.

I think the next few days could be very interesting.
		
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And they used to say we were the paranoid ones. :rofl:

He is playing a blinder all right well as long as you mean that he is about to pull off another scam on ra peepul. What ever happened to the 25 year contract he was giving sleekit sally?


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 26, 2012)

According to earlier reports I was led to believe it was White that was playing a blinder.

Re Celtic gates, two reasons.
There is a recession on and they are all saving their pennies for the big European nights.
They are third in the league and not the 25 points ahead as predicted by The Rangers fans.

Stu it is not hatred, just good fun.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 26, 2012)

Big cup game on.
Can the minnows from Div 3 upset the league leaders?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2012)

No score so far.  And as far as the 'diddy' clubs 'needing' a strong Celtic and The Rangers.  Well let's see how many 'diddy' clubs go bust in the next year or two.  In respect of international standing then it is probably true that Scotland need a strong Celtic and The Rangers - but their success and impact on a European level is only pretty limited in any case.  Time will tell.


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## Bomber69 (Sep 26, 2012)

Hmmm no score so far you say, well I just turned on the TV and the diddly team are thrashing the premier leagues top team.

Oh Scottish football must be in a sorry state


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh dear (replace with other non-PC word) I read that the The Rangers are now 2 up.  Please save us from the self-righteous, gloating and preening that will emanate from the Ibroke hordes if this stays as it is.


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## Bomber69 (Sep 26, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh dear (replace with other non-PC word) I read that the The Rangers are now 2 up.  Please save us from the self-righteous, gloating and preening that will emanate from the Ibroke hordes if this stays as it is.
		
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Oh Dear, so you like to dish it but can't take it. Oh what a shame:rofl:


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## bogside84 (Sep 26, 2012)

I would have to agree a team who struggle every week in the 3rd Div against the team who are top of the SPL  



Bomber69 said:



			Hmmm no score so far you say, well I just turned on the TV and the diddly team are thrashing the premier leagues top team.

Oh Scottish football must be in a sorry state
		
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## Bomber69 (Sep 26, 2012)

bogside84 said:



			I would have to agree a team who struggle every week in the 3rd Div against the team who are top of the SPL
		
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Yep you got to ask yourself after watching that tonight and see the diddly team dominate the match that maybe the 3rd div is far more competitive than the SPL.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 26, 2012)

btw - it's *diddy *team  - an adjective used by Rangers (now deid) supporters to describe the teams of the rest of Scottish football excluding the East End Gang - and they have different adjectives to describe for that mob.  

Anyway - if the supporters of the new diddy team of the 3rd Div get their way there won't be any SPL by the time their team The Rangers win Div1 as all the clubs will be gorn.  All the The Rangers supporters should just get over it and accept that their old club completely screwed the system and have simply got their just desserts.  All the rest of the teams in Scotland have done is read the rules and support the appropriate penalty as defined by the rules.  As golfers that should be an easy concept to grasp.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 26, 2012)

Bomber69 said:



			Yep you got to ask yourself after watching that tonight and see the diddly team dominate the match that maybe the 3rd div is far more competitive than the SPL.
		
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Does that mean you want to stay there then Bomber!!

Well done tonight, not a classic. I have never seen two teams give the ball away so much.
As you say, a poor reflection on the standard of Scottish fitba.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 1, 2012)

Â£94,000,000.00 owed 
And that was just the Taxman [or woman]


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## 19thagain (Oct 2, 2012)

Well it was bum twitching time at Forres on Saturday for The Rangers but they scraped through.

By the way The Rangers are not a third division side .. they are an SPL side who cheated and were banished to the third division. They pay their players higher than any SPL club other than maybe Celtic and therefore their result against Motherwell was not surprising but the poor display against Forres- a wee Highland League side- is therefore laughable!!


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## Dodger (Oct 2, 2012)

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Let's see the Laptop Loyal find a negative in that result. Go on lads,go on you know you want to...
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Armageddon eh??[/FONT]:rofl::rofl:


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## BrizoH71 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dodger said:



Let's see the Laptop Loyal find a negative in that result. Go on lads,go on you know you want to...


Armageddon eh??:rofl::rofl:
		
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They'll find a way, especially that fat slug Traynor.. personally, I'm all for this football armageddon that was foretold. :whoo:


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## Dodger (Oct 2, 2012)

Fact - Lenny has won more away games in Europe this season that the fat lad has away from home in the SFL3!!!!:rofl:

How sore are your black necks from looking up at us from way down below?:smirk:


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## Dodger (Oct 6, 2012)

Just read the report of the meeting at Ibrox yesterday ...you have to love Chuck,he's certainly got the knuckledraggers believing every word and his soundbites are pretty much the same as Moonbeams were 20 years ago and look where that lead them.

He boasts of 'trimming the wage bill'....breaking news though Chuck you didn't trim it they all walked away (sorry couldn't resist it) and you are still topping Â£6m per annum in the worst league in UK professional football.

Laughable stuff from him in fact has anyone ever seen him and David Icke in the same room together before??

Amusing stuff.:rofl:


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## Tommo21 (Oct 6, 2012)

Allan, I'm no rangers supporter, but do you ever take a breath.


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## Dodger (Oct 6, 2012)

Tommo21 said:



			Allan, I'm no rangers supporter, but do you ever take a breath.
		
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Nope.:smirk:


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 6, 2012)

I would have thought that drawing attention to Celtics first away win in the CL since Showaddywaddy topped the charts was not a good move!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 6, 2012)

Oh dear 1-0 down to the Binos with a few minutes to go


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## Dodger (Oct 6, 2012)

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

What was that you were saying yesterday Chuck?????????

Beaten by the worst team in UK Professional Football!!!!!

Long may this continue.......please *DO NOT *sack the fat lad.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## smange (Oct 6, 2012)

Thats an unbelievable result :rofl:

Well done Stirling Albion :clap:


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## Dodger (Oct 6, 2012)

Bino's manager not there today.....away getting wed and still he's doing a better job that Fat Al.:rofl::rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 6, 2012)

I would quite like to be at that wedding reception!!


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## BrizoH71 (Oct 6, 2012)

:rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The worst result for a British team visiting Stirling since 1314.


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## Dodger (Oct 6, 2012)

McCoist is apparently going to get done for match-fixing...he agreed a 1-0 loss in exchange for two tiers of wedding cake.:rofl::whoo:


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## BrizoH71 (Oct 6, 2012)

Dodger said:



McCoist is apparently going to get done for match-fixing...he agreed a 1-0 loss in exchange for two tiers of wedding cake.:rofl::whoo:
		
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:rofl:


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## Lanark_Golfer (Oct 6, 2012)

I thought the groom wasn't meant to do the pumping till after the reception :whoo:


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## SS2 (Oct 6, 2012)

Surely MCCoist can't survive much longer. Is he being kept in post purely because he was a fan's favourite and was loyal throughout the administration period ?


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## Dodger (Oct 6, 2012)

SS2 said:



			Surely MCCoist can't survive much longer. Is he being kept in post purely because he was a fan's favourite and was loyal throughout the administration period ?
		
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Never thought of that SS2,I thought he was still in the position due to his unrivaled managerial record, no?:mmm:


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## BrizoH71 (Oct 6, 2012)

Not sure if true, but I had heard he has a financial stake in the newco which might make it difficult for Chuckie Green to give him the bullet.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 6, 2012)

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dearie dearie me. The mighty Glasgow Rangers beaten by STIRLING ALBION - meanwhile diddy St Johnstone up to equal 2nd in the SPL


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## SS2 (Oct 6, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Never thought of that SS2,I thought he was still in the position due to his unrivaled managerial record, no?:mmm:

Click to expand...

ffs Dodger, everyone knows he's still in position cos you are personally paying his wages by dipping the till at work. You are risking a long jail sentence and being branded a till-dipper just to keep the comedy results coming on the field.


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## chris661 (Oct 6, 2012)

SS2 said:



			ffs Dodger, everyone knows he's still in position cos you are personally paying his wages by dipping the till at work. You are risking a long jail sentence and being branded a till-dipper just to keep the comedy results coming on the field.
		
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Here's hoping they continue......:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 7, 2012)

Anyone know if Paul Le Guen's free?


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## smange (Oct 8, 2012)

Think this may go stale before its needed


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## BrizoH71 (Oct 17, 2012)

Just when you thought things had gone quiet and this pops up ... things aren't getting any better for poor Sevco/Rangers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19976991

Craig Whyte has claimed he introduced Charles Green to Duff and Phelps as the administrators searched for a buyer for Rangers.


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## Val (Oct 17, 2012)

BrizoH71 said:



			Just when you thought things had gone quiet and this pops up ... things aren't getting any better for poor Sevco/Rangers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19976991

Craig Whyte has claimed he introduced Charles Green to Duff and Phelps as the administrators searched for a buyer for Rangers.
		
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:rofl:


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## BrizoH71 (Oct 25, 2012)

It gets worse for Oldco... could this have an effect on Sevco5088? Liquidators maybe have grounds to recall the sale of assets to Chuckles Green?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20088667

Rangers administrators tried to persuade the club's former owner Craig  Whyte to lie about their knowledge of the Ticketus deal which was used  to buy the club, the BBC can reveal.

Duff & Phelps asked Mr  Whyte to lie because they were afraid HMRC would remove them as  administrators over a potential conflict of interest.

The revelations are contained in a recorded conversation between the firm's David Grier and Craig Whyte.


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## Dodger (Oct 25, 2012)

I have said all along that Chucks newco will go tits up.

And oh how I would laugh...........again.


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## Dodger (Oct 25, 2012)

Latest word on the street is that Craigy boy also recorded Ally ordering takeaways and wrongly charging them to the club but unfortunately the evidence will never stand up in court as he ran out of tape.


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## Val (Oct 25, 2012)

Craig Whyte was always the man to pull the strings


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## chris661 (Oct 25, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I have said all along that Chucks newco will go tits up.

And oh how I would laugh...........again.
		
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I doubt they will see Christmas.


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## thecraw (Oct 25, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Craig Whyte was always the man to pull the strings
		
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I've always had the opinion that Craig Whyte has known all along what he's doing. Some interesting developments coming up or out over the next few weeks!


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## Val (Oct 25, 2012)

There a Celtic website that has always said it doesnt matter what anyone does Craig Whyte is the only gig in town.

CQN gets it right again.


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## Dodger (Oct 25, 2012)

Valentino said:



			There a Celtic website that has always said it doesnt matter what anyone does Craig Whyte is the only gig in town.

CQN gets it right again.
		
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Val there is little they have got wrong,very well informed man who runs it.


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## Dodger (Oct 25, 2012)

*Taken from elsewhere,this,if true,makes for interesting reading!!*

David Grier is the mastermind behind all of this.

MIH (Murrays company) used the Bank of Scotland as a source of easily obtainable money for years and when Murray buys ...., the BOS throw money at them as well. David Grier at that time was an employee of BOS. Murray runs the .... almost into the ground at the same time as MIH is in a similar position. BOS is eventually bought over by Lloyds who immediately stop the free flowing cash to Murrays companies and football club. And they want their money back. Murray faces ruin and has nowhere to go. Whilst he can cover up the MIH stuff from the public, the very well publicised RFC means he will be exposed as a charlatan and as a crook. The EBT investigation by HMRC means he is in a corner and surrounded.

So this is where David Grier comes into play. Murray needs to get rid of the huns and at the same time use his compliant and obedient Scottish media to pin the blame of the huns demise on a new owner. So he needs someone who is an asset stripper, hard faced and shameless and glaiket when it comes to the fact he is just a sacrificial lamb to the slaughter. A relatively small time spiv who cannot resist the chance of a shot at a big time scam, Craig Whyte. Who is involved in the takeover between Whyte and Murray? David Grier of course. So Whyte takes over and as part of the deal Ticketus are taken for a ride in order to rid RFC of Â£18million of debt. David Grier is involved in the Ticketus deal as well. Whyte knows the score and that is that he, Murray and Grier all need the huns to go into administration and liquidation in order to make money, get rid of the toxic debt and lessen the EBT scandal as the focus will be on no more RFC as opposed to the tainted trophy haul it funded.

It is clear that there is a link between David Grier and the following:

David Murray
Craig Whyte
Ticketus
Duff & Phelps

Now that Griers company has been bought over by Duff and Phelps he can arrange payment for all of his work to date by his company being paid for the administration. Whyte goes to court and ensures that D&P are made his Administrators. Whyte has no idea he is being used as a patsy as opposed to an associate. The BBC emails from last night show that Whyte wanted a capped fee of a maximum half a million pounds admin fee and it was to be a quick process and involved OldCo/NewCo scenario when CVA was bounded by HMRC.

That shows up a few interesting revelations:

1. D&P had no intention of a quick admininstration and were looking to draw it out to get as big a fee as possible, therefore a capped half a million is now running at Â£5.5 million pounds. Therefore Whyte is not the shrewd crook we thought, he is being shafted royally by David Grier.
2. Whyte got rid of the Lloyds debt , therefore saved the .... Â£18million but he is liable for that Ticketus debt and it appears he has not tied it to the stadium but in personal liabilities. Therefore Whyte is not the shrewd crook we thought, he is being shafted by David Grier.
3. The OldCo/NewCo scenario was first floated publically by the Bill Miller preffered bid. Again this is D&P playing games and in the emails last night it was proven they had this plan at the very beginning of admin. Bill Miller was simply someone who was paid a fee for his name to be used to make out there was another group interested and for him, as opposed to Whyte or D&P, for coming up with the liquidation (and loss of history) of the .....

Green was nowhere to be seen in all of this until the point when the Miller scenario was completed, the .... had swallowed the NewCo replacement for the word liquidation. He came from nowhere to being the preffered bigger in less than a week? Clearly D&P had him lined up at the start and the one irritation they had was the Blue Knights. Bill Miller and Bill Ng were just people paid to front supposed bids and to make out there was a demand and interest in buying Rangers. Clearly the plan all along was for Grier to rid Murray of the ...., set up Craig Whyte as the patsy to take all of the shampoo to protect Murray, use Miller/Ng as a smokescreen for Green to come in and make his play for earning money out of this swindle.

Green is due to get his Â£8.3million offer back by 2020 in a leveraged buy out. He is due to make Â£4million personally as "incentivisation" to make the deal happen. Green previously worked in Singapore, the same country who was also providing some of his supposed 20 backers and also where Bill Ng comes from and where his supposed bid was based. David Grier linked to Green via D&P and then in turn Green linked to Bill Ng.

Green will spend Â£200,000 and loan (not pay) Â£8.3 million (which in turn provides interest accrued) in order to get access to over Â£100 million worth of assets. A failed CVA, and it was written to fail, means he only pays Â£5.5 million, co-incidentally D&Ps current fee. The .... will as a result lose over Â£200 million worth of debt (Â£134 million admin day level of potential debt, Â£18million ticketus scammed to pay off Llyods debt, Â£50 million transferred from RFC to MIH and written off by Lloyds from the failed RFC share issue years back).

The .... are really being taken for a ride by Murray and his shady agent David Greir. In fact the following people are being made to look like complete idiots by Grier/D&P:

1. RFC supporters
2. Craig Whyte
3. Insolvency Practitioners Association
4. Scottish Media (Daly as the exception)
5. HMRC
6. Ticketus
7. The SPL
8. The SFA
9. The Police

All of the above, with the exception of 1 and 2 obviously, should be ashamed at the lack of proper investigation into the scam that is being played out in front of their very eyes.


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## Dodger (Nov 1, 2012)

That horrible Smith has just mounted his White Charger and is about to come to bail out his wee fat pal.:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 1, 2012)

Gordon or Walter?


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## Dodger (Nov 1, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Gordon or Walter?
		
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The Cardigan is rumoured to be coming back....again.

Is there a manager as hopelessly useless as the fat one? Not even Avril is as hopeless as pieman.:whoo:


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## BrizoH71 (Nov 2, 2012)

2-page report in todays The Times of further tax enquiries into one of newco's major shareholders. 

"Richard Hughes, the co-founder of Zeus Capital, the finance company at  the centre of the Rangers takeover, also set up Zeus Partners, which  created and marketed a Â£134 million film investment scheme that HM  Revenue & Customs suspects may be part of an illegal effort to  generate millions of pounds in tax relief."

Hughes owns approximately 7% of shares in newco. Rumours on Twitter also that Chuckles Green's tax affairs are to come under scrutiny from Hector.

Such a tangled web, its hard to keep up with all the developments, twists and turns of this ongoing saga.. however, I don't think the mirth has quite ended yet.

:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 2, 2012)

Never mind...big game against Alloa Alloah tomorrow.
Lose that one and they are oot of all three cups.


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## Mungoscorner (Nov 3, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Never mind...big game against Alloa Alloah tomorrow.
Lose that one and they are oot of all three cups.
		
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Big game my arse.

Rangers 7-0 Alloa

Do try harder if you want to be a smart arse.


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## chris661 (Nov 3, 2012)

Think this has run its course now.


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