# England v Pakistan



## Tongo (Jul 15, 2016)

Well after the procession against Sri Lanka it looks like we have a proper test series for the second half of the summer! 

Great stuff from Woakes with the ball but it looks like England are going to have their hands full with Yasir Shah this summer and the soft underbelly of their middle order looks likely to be regularly exposed. 

I think it wont be long before Moeen's place in the side comes under serious scrutiny. Just what is he offering that Rashid doesnt?


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2016)

Woakes now above Finn for sure, be interesting if we pick Woakes and Stokes for 2nd test. The Ali situation is hard, doing a containing role as we dont have anyone better is the theory but like you think Rashid should get another go. Vince looks a liability currently, looked clueless v the spin and Ballance a strange choice against a predominantly left arm attack.

Batting is overly dependent on 2 or 3 and the bowling looks pretty one dimensional without Andersen albeit on your typical Lords deck which has been prepared to last for 10 days rather than produce a good cricket wicket (is it really that risky to have a track with a little pace and bounce)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2016)

So what is everyone's feelings on Amir ?

Side with people like Bumble and Cork - banned for life ( Cork more leaning towards just banned from international cricket )

Or side with Key and Hussain - gets a second chance ?

I think it's a tough one but lean more towards the banning for life but just have this feeling that he deserves the second chance because he was so young and under the influence of senior players ?


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## Tongo (Jul 15, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what is everyone's feelings on Amir ?

Side with people like Bumble and Cork - banned for life ( Cork more leaning towards just banned from international cricket )

Or side with Key and Hussain - gets a second chance ?

I think it's a tough one but lean more towards the banning for life but just have this feeling that he deserves the second chance because he was so young and under the influence of senior players ?
		
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People will judge Amir from their own standing and their own pleasant, well off, comfortable lives here in England. I get the impression that life isnt as comfortable, rosy or as simple in Pakistan.


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what is everyone's feelings on Amir ?

Side with people like Bumble and Cork - banned for life ( Cork more leaning towards just banned from international cricket )

Or side with Key and Hussain - gets a second chance ?

I think it's a tough one but lean more towards the banning for life but just have this feeling that he deserves the second chance because he was so young and under the influence of senior players ?
		
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I think its a really hard one, im usually a big fan of lifetime bans for pretty much any form of cheating, especially match fixing in cricket as it invariably costs me a chunk of profits when it happens. In this situation though I can see the other side and why it has been a limited punishment and hes been allowed to return. For me time to move on, hes been allowed back and hopefully theres no controversy  around him in the foreseeable future


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## Hobbit (Jul 15, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what is everyone's feelings on Amir ?

Side with people like Bumble and Cork - banned for life ( Cork more leaning towards just banned from international cricket )

Or side with Key and Hussain - gets a second chance ?

I think it's a tough one but lean more towards the banning for life but just have this feeling that he deserves the second chance because he was so young and under the influence of senior players ?
		
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Second chance for sure. Even good people make bad choices occasionally.


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## Tongo (Jul 16, 2016)

A cracking day in the test. Proper test match cricket. Its set up for a very intriguing finish. 

Great stuff from Chris Woakes as well, 11 wickets in the match so far with another 2 potentially up for grabs!


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## fundy (Jul 16, 2016)

Tongo said:



			A cracking day in the test. Proper test match cricket. Its set up for a very intriguing finish. 

Great stuff from Chris Woakes as well, 11 wickets in the match so far with another 2 potentially up for grabs!
		
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Woakes has been different class, be great to have him and Andersen in the same team, felt a bit for Finn, chances going down off him when his place is under pressure. Bairstows keeping been shown up yet again, merits being in the side as a batter but they are going to seriously have to consider whether they pick a different keeper

As for tomorrow could be a classic albeit I think England are in for a very tough time, forecast is for early conditions to be overcast and the pitch getting more and more variable as the day wore on today, albeit the roller may improve it a bit early on. Wrist spinner gonna be in his element you'd think


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 16, 2016)

I think Pakistan have enough on the board already. Bairstow does look a but out of form with the gloves


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## Tongo (Jul 17, 2016)

England in big trouble at 49/3. And Yasir Shah hasnt got going yet!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2016)

Tongo said:



			England in big trouble at 49/3. And Yasir Shah hasnt got going yet!
		
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England all out for 200-220 I reckon


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## fundy (Jul 17, 2016)

cracking test match but chasing 4th inns was always going to be difficult, especially after a few of the top order donated their wickets. Woakes gonna struggle to work out how he's on the losing side, been outstanding all test match, expect at least 2 changes for the next test


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## Tongo (Jul 17, 2016)

fundy said:



*cracking test match* but chasing 4th inns was always going to be difficult, especially after a few of the top order donated their wickets. Woakes gonna struggle to work out how he's on the losing side, been outstanding all test match, expect at least 2 changes for the next test
		
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Yeah, this looks like it could be a great series. England's batting looks suspect if Cook and Root dont score runs.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2016)

fundy said:



			cracking test match but chasing 4th inns was always going to be difficult, especially after a few of the top order donated their wickets. Woakes gonna struggle to work out how he's on the losing side, been outstanding all test match, expect at least 2 changes for the next test
		
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As predicted England out for less than 220 and struggling against the Pakistani attack although to be fair some of the shots played were reckless at best. You can't factor in a rush of blood but I hope the batting line up in the next game is more robust


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## patricks148 (Jul 18, 2016)

I'm still struggling to work out how Yasir got a shed load of wickets????

i watched most of his bowling and only saw one ball turn, looked like the England of old mesmerized by any subcontinental spinner.


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			I'm still struggling to work out how Yasir got a shed load of wickets????

i watched most of his bowling and only saw one ball turn, looked like the England of old mesmerized by any subcontinental spinner.
		
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He turned plenty yesterday, the ball he bowled Ballance with turned more than 2 foot (albeit Ballance made a horlicks of it)

Must be something about him, 86 wickets in 13 tests and already ranked number 1 in the world. I thought he bowled beautifully both innings, lots of variety in pace and flight as well as varying amounts of turn. 

You're going to see a lot more of him over the summer thats for sure and every chance he really likes the wicket at Old Trafford next week!

Most of our guys rarely see a proper wrist spinner so no surprise they struggle against it really  Only question now is how long does he last before he gets called for chucking (like every other wrist spinner for the last decade)


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## patricks148 (Jul 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			He turned plenty yesterday, the ball he bowled Ballance with turned more than 2 foot (albeit Ballance made a horlicks of it)

Must be something about him, 86 wickets in 13 tests and already ranked number 1 in the world. I thought he bowled beautifully both innings, lots of variety in pace and flight as well as varying amounts of turn. 

You're going to see a lot more of him over the summer thats for sure and every chance he really likes the wicket at Old Trafford next week!

Most of our guys rarely see a proper wrist spinner so no surprise they struggle against it really  Only question now is how long does he last before he gets called for chucking (like every other wrist spinner for the last decade)
		
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Didn't see the Balance wicket, but most deliveries i did see we sort of fast top spinners or just straight balls. He didn't bowl many bad balls from what i saw and when he did the batsmen made a has of it and either got out or blocked it.

Id like to see him attacked more, the attitude Misbah takes, when a spinners comes on its time to score for him not block the * out of it.

They just let him bowl .

can't argue that the seamers bowled well they could have easily Skitteled us out the couple of spells i saw, that just kept finding the edge.


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			Didn't see the Balance wicket, but most deliveries i did see we sort of fast top spinners or just straight balls. He didn't bowl many bad balls from what i saw and when he did the batsmen made a has of it and either got out or blocked it.

Id like to see him attacked more, the attitude Misbah takes, when a spinners comes on its time to score for him not block the * out of it.

They just let him bowl .

can't argue that the seamers bowled well they could have easily Skitteled us out the couple of spells i saw, that just kept finding the edge.
		
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Ballance dismissal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8LuafqpJSE

The problem with attacking him was shown up badly by Moeen, declared in the press he was gonna attack him then got bowled trying to slog him out of the ground early on, horrid shot. 

Very hard to attack someone when you dont know which way or if hes turning it, and pretty much none of the England batters looked like they were picking him at all


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## patricks148 (Jul 18, 2016)

fundy said:



			Ballance dismissal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8LuafqpJSE

The problem with attacking him was shown up badly by Moeen, declared in the press he was gonna attack him then got bowled trying to slog him out of the ground early on, horrid shot. 

Very hard to attack someone when you dont know which way or if hes turning it, and pretty much none of the England batters looked like they were picking him at all
		
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WOW, very Warne like, only balls i saw him bowl were gun barrel straight.

was it out the bowlers foot marks?

Maybe not having a slog or the big shot, didn't see much in the way of singles and rotation of the strike


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			WOW, very Warne like, only balls i saw him bowl were gun barrel straight.

was it out the bowlers foot marks?
		
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that one may have been yes but he was turning it enough off the flat too

yep the comparison videos with the Warne ball are already out there


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 18, 2016)

I barely watched the cricket because of the golf. In my head it didn't really happen. Can we start at Old Trafford 0-0?

The best players of spin use their feet and get to the pitch. We seem mesmerised and the only option is the slog sweep. We need to use our feet and knock him off his line. Even if you are only pushing ones it upsets the length and rythym of the bowler.


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2016)

Cook and Root proved why theyre Englands 2 best batters again today, Root has been superb, looked in good nick last test before throwing it away, seems determined to prove a point today!!! Gonna be hardwork for Pakistan from here


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## patricks148 (Jul 22, 2016)

fundy said:



			Cook and Root proved why theyre Englands 2 best batters again today, Root has been superb, looked in good nick last test before throwing it away, seems determined to prove a point today!!! Gonna be hardwork for Pakistan from here
		
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Yasir, got the bowling figures he should have had a lords.... today, none for loads

Root again today just showed he is in a different class to the rest


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2016)

Vince looks a tad light at this level and has been found out driving all the time. Good to see Root play with patience and nice knock from Cook. Hopefully we'll get shed loads tomorrow and the bowlers will then find a way to get them out twice


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## Norrin Radd (Jul 22, 2016)

i would like to see england swap vince and balance for roy and butler, that would be some batting line up .
 as for today ,cook and root were superb .


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2016)

Norrin Radd said:



			i would like to see england swap vince and balance for roy and butler, that would be some batting line up .
 as for today ,cook and root were superb .
		
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Buttler has a broken finger so not available and Roy barely averages 25 in county cricket with 2 50s in 13 innings, why on earth would you want him in a test side?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 22, 2016)

fundy said:



			Buttler has a broken finger so not available and Roy barely averages 25 in county cricket with 2 50s in 13 innings, why on earth would you want him in a test side?
		
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And in his 15 Tests to date Buttler averages only 30.

He and Roy are certainties for T20 & ODI but neither look like they are suited to Test cricket.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 22, 2016)

I don't see Roy being given a go anytime soon but reckon Buttler was close to a recall before the finger injury and expect to see him back in the squad sooner rather than later to move Bairstow as a specialist batsman. Buttler started his test career off in decent form but lost form and confidence during the Ashes - the break has done him wonders and he has regained a lot of confidence. If his finger has healed then could even see him back in for the next test instead of Vince with Buttler coming in at 6.


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## Karl102 (Jul 22, 2016)

Vince isn't convincing for me. I would give Scott Borthwick a go. Nearly 700 1st div runs already this year and if I am honest, from what I've seen there a a few middle order English batsman setting the world on fire ATM. Liam Livingstone at lancs is having a good season and is one to watch for the future.... He scored 300+ in a 45 over Cheshire cup game last year.....


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2016)

Borthwick has to be worth a look. Roy doesn't strike me as a test player. Still not wholly convinced with Hales at the top either though not convinced on who could replace him


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 22, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't see Roy being given a go anytime soon but reckon Buttler was close to a recall before the finger injury and expect to see him back in the squad sooner rather than later to move Bairstow as a specialist batsman. Buttler started his test career off in decent form but lost form and confidence during the Ashes - the break has done him wonders and he has regained a lot of confidence. If his finger has healed then could even see him back in for the next test instead of Vince with Buttler coming in at 6.
		
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I remain "old fashioned", a wicket-keeper should be picked primarily for his keeping.

Whilst Buttler has improved he is still not exactly Test class as just a keeper.

Post Gilchrist every Test nation has been picking their keepers more for their batting, overlooking the fact that Adam Gilchrist was a one-off whose keeping alone made him worthy of a place.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 23, 2016)

MM we haven't picked our best wicket keeper for over 20 years now. The selectors are obsessed with the wk scoring runs, no matter how many they cost through dropped catches and missed stumping. Foster and Read should have been fighting for England caps but they were sadly neglected. Barstow has irons hands, Butler much the same.


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## Snelly (Jul 23, 2016)

Rooooooooot.

Top man.  Fingers crossed he can kick on from here to 200.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 23, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			MM we haven't picked our best wicket keeper for over 20 years now. The selectors are obsessed with the wk scoring runs, no matter how many they cost through dropped catches and missed stumping. Foster and Read should have been fighting for England caps but they were sadly neglected. Barstow has irons hands, Butler much the same.
		
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Yes it does pre-date Gilchrist. As well as Foster and Read there have been other glovemen who missed out, like Keith Piper and Bob Taylor was overlooked for a long time to accommodate Alan Knott's superior batting.

6-4-1 for me.

Best 6 batsmen, best 4 bowlers, best 1 as keeper. In that mix you will always find a batsman who can bowl and a bowler who will contribute useful runs.

Unfortunately back in the 90's my county  (Warks) had terrific success with a lot of "bits & pieces" players and it seemed to set a pattern that many in the game followed to the detriment of many specialists.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 23, 2016)

The Dermot Reeves era. Hugely successful as you say. I agree with your system, does that make us both old or just traditionalists? I think the latter and it still holds up to scrutiny.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 23, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The Dermot Reeves era. Hugely successful as you say. I agree with your system, does that make us both old or just traditionalists? I think the latter and it still holds up to scrutiny.
		
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Dear old Dermot! They were fun days but, as I said, in some ways they weren't beneficial for us or the game as a whole.

As for you and I, I prefer traditionalists but others might disagree (at least in my case!)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2016)

It's certainly an issue where you can see both sides - how much extra does a specialist keeper give a team as opposed to an extra batsman ?

A lot of keepers now are concentrating more on their batting to make them more adaptable knowing teams would like that extra batsmen - Prior was the perfect example for England - batting depth is a big thing for teams now and it's been one of England's strengths over the last number of years


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 23, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's certainly an issue where you can see both sides - how much extra does a specialist keeper give a team as opposed to an extra batsman ?

A lot of keepers now are concentrating more on their batting to make them more adaptable knowing teams would like that extra batsmen - Prior was the perfect example for England - batting depth is a big thing for teams now and it's been one of England's strengths over the last number of years
		
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To me it is not a great thing to claim a depth in batting. Rather it is an indication of a lack of strength in the 6 specialists.

A quality keeper is essential, he is the focus for the fielding side and there is nothing more damaging to bowlers' morale than seeing catches dropped and (particularly in the cases of Bairstow and Buttler) stumping chances missed. That fall in morale quickly spreads throughout the team.


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## Tongo (Jul 23, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Rooooooooot.

Top man.  Fingers crossed he can kick on from here to 200.
		
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Yes, i always feel that England players dont score as many daddy hundreds as they should so this is a great performance from JR. 

Good support from Woakes as well who is showing what he can do with bat as well as ball.


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## Tongo (Jul 23, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			To me it is not a great thing to claim a depth in batting. Rather it is an indication of a lack of strength in the 6 specialists.

A quality keeper is essential, he is the focus for the fielding side and there is nothing more damaging to bowlers' morale than seeing catches dropped and (particularly in the cases of Bairstow and Buttler) stumping chances missed. That fall in morale quickly spreads throughout the team.
		
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Australia of course only played with 4 bowlers with Gilchrist in the side. But they had everything in that team. England dont have enough in the top 6 to be confident enough to only play 4 bowlers with a specialist keeper. Or a good enough attack to go with just 4 bowlers.


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## Tongo (Jul 23, 2016)

England in charge now with Pakistan 53/4.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 23, 2016)

Tongo said:



			England in charge now with Pakistan 53/4.
		
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Fantastic session buoyed by the Root 250. There for the taking you'd think tomorrow and get them in again and put the pressure on. Need to get Masood early tomorrow morning


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## Norrin Radd (Jul 23, 2016)

we need no rain and its forecast tomorrow.


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## Tongo (Jul 24, 2016)

England not following on after bowling Pakistan out for 198. 

Disappointing for me. There's rain around, England lead by nearly 400, no bowler bowled more than 16 overs, why be so conservative?


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2016)

Tongo said:



			England not following on after bowling Pakistan out for 198. 

Disappointing for me. There's rain around, England lead by nearly 400, no bowler bowled more than 16 overs, why be so conservative?
		
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Got to make sure it goes to day 4 and preferably day 5 to keep the coffers full


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2016)

What's the forecast for tomorrow and Tuesday. Seems a bizarre decision when they had so many runs to play with


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What's the forecast for tomorrow and Tuesday. Seems a bizarre decision when they had so many runs to play with
		
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few showers but shouldnt lose too much play


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2016)

fundy said:



			few showers but shouldnt lose too much play
		
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That's good news but I am still unsure why we wouldn't enforce the follow on unless they are scared of the Pakistani spinner in the final innings. Doesn't seem a positive message to give out


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			That's good news but I am still unsure why we wouldn't enforce the follow on unless they are scared of the Pakistani spinner in the final innings. Doesn't seem a positive message to give out
		
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The cynic in me says its an ECB decision to ensure the test goes 4 or 5 days. The other option is that Andersen is just back from injury, plenty of cricket ahead, pitch isnt going to improve and could get seriously worse, its actually the safer option


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2016)

fundy said:



			The cynic in me says its an ECB decision to ensure the test goes 4 or 5 days. The other option is that Andersen is just back from injury, plenty of cricket ahead, pitch isnt going to improve and could get seriously worse, its actually the safer option
		
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I can share the cynicism of wanting to extend the match but surely we have the team to protect a lead and get the runs should we need to bat again?


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## fundy (Jul 24, 2016)

can also argue we have more than enough team to win the game this way round and ensure the bowlers get a rest too


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 25, 2016)

Tongo said:



			England not following on after bowling Pakistan out for 198. 

Disappointing for me. There's rain around, England lead by nearly 400, no bowler bowled more than 16 overs, why be so conservative?
		
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Some of the comments by the Sky pundits were pathetic over this.    England will win the game either way so why not get 150-200 quick runs, rest the bowlers and then finish them off?   

The simple solution is to find out whatever Geoff Boycott and Ian Botham think ..... and then do the total opposite.


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## Snelly (Jul 25, 2016)

Poor decision I thought.  The best teams in the world are totally ruthless and England took their foot of the Pakistan throat. Australia in their prime would not have done this. 

That said, another ton for Root would be great.


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## patricks148 (Jul 25, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Poor decision I thought.  The best teams in the world are totally ruthless and England took their foot of the Pakistan throat. Australia in their prime would not have done this. 

That said, another ton for Root would be great.
		
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yes, at their best the Aussies were totally ruthless, but then saying that they did have two of the best bowlers ever in GM and SW


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## Kellfire (Jul 25, 2016)

Snelly said:



			Poor decision I thought.  The best teams in the world are totally ruthless and England took their foot of the Pakistan throat. Australia in their prime would not have done this. 

That said, another ton for Root would be great.
		
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Australia are the only team to have lost a match after enforcing a follow on - three times in all... so maybe they would.


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## fundy (Jul 25, 2016)

cracking win from England, founded on Root and Cook being 500/2 between them and the bowlers making getting 20 wickets look pretty straight forward, only real negative was Stokes' injury, looks like that may be him done for the test series  be interesting to see if they try and replace like for like (is there any?) or pick an out and out bowler on the basis we have enough depth in batting already (would love to see woakes get a chance higher up especially the form he appears to be in). Maybe a left field option like Curran, or if they go for an out and out bowler expect its Ball or Finn returning (if they didnt pick 2 spinners at OT hard to see Rashid getting the gig)


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 25, 2016)

Decent performance and a shame about the injury. Will make the next test very interesting. I think we've got the momentum and batsmen in form (Hales and Vince aside). A good chance to try a new bowler perhaps


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## Snelly (Jul 25, 2016)

A good win.  The lack of follow-on showed timidity to our rivals though and I think it was an error of judgement.


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## richart (Jul 25, 2016)

Joe Root is the best England batsman I have seen. His footwork is stunning, all the shots, and plays with am elegance not seen since David Gower. Someone that good makes the game look so easy.

On the other hand Hales, Vince and Ballance scratch around in comparison. England need to find a couple of decent batsmen and a spinner, to be the top team in the world.

Great improvement in Woakes as an all-rounder and Bairstow as a batsmen.:thup:


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## Junior (Jul 25, 2016)

Snelly said:



			A good win.  The lack of follow-on showed timidity to our rivals though and I think it was an error of judgement.
		
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They say Old Trafford is hard on the bowlers so having two just return from injury (Anderson and Stokes), they decided to rest them....not that it did Stokes much good.  Perhaps in the back of their mind they were also worried should they have needed to chase against the leggy on a day 5 pitch.

That said, there was so much time left in the match it didn't matter a jot what Cook did but the Sky Sports commentators were going way ott in lambasting cook for not declaring.   I do agree with them and you in that it would have been nice to see Cook make a statement and be bolder......an England innings victory is a rare thing.

I think Ballance and Vince have what it takes but Hales days might be numbered in the test team......


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## Tongo (Aug 3, 2016)

An interesting opening day at the third test, again highlighting how this is a fairly even series. Pakistan will probably be slightly the happier of the two teams. Much will depend on whether England can get Misbah early tomorrow as the rest of the Pakistani batting line-up doesnt appear to be able to hang around for too long.


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## Piece (Aug 5, 2016)

Watching the England bowling this morning...MAKE THE BATSMAN PLAY! It's doing a bit off the seam and swinging! Stick a sight screen instead of the wickets and Finn would still bowl wide of it


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## Norrin Radd (Aug 5, 2016)

much better day for England ,Cook and Hales putting a ton on the board ,so tomorrow we start all level again .


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 6, 2016)

Good day for England but can't see us bowling them out tomorrow


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2016)

England attack pretty badly exposed this morning, barely looked like taking a wicket. No swing and the pace attack looks very samey (surely Finns last game for a while) and Cook clearly doesnt trust Moeen as much as he needs to, reluctant to bowl him on a day 5 pitch and when he does its 10 mins before lunch, no catcher in front of the bat and a deep point to a side that need nearly 300 in 2 sessions


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2016)

completely different England after lunch - got every chance of forcing a result now, could be a fun finish


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2016)

Ball starts reversing and England look a different team, Finn may just have earned himself one last game too

Feel for Sami Aslam, he has been absolutely superb, expect we see a lot more of him over the years to come


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## DCB (Aug 7, 2016)

Ready for a taste final session now &#9786;


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## Junior (Aug 7, 2016)

Top effort to overturn a 100 run deficit.  Crazy shot for the last wicket, but credit where it's due....proper team effort with lots of contributions.  Good captaincy by Cook with regards to chopping and changing his bowlers and some good field platings.  I hope the sky sports commentators pick this up as they are always quick to slam him.


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## jusme (Aug 7, 2016)

Absolutely brilliant cricket from England - that match would normally end in a draw all day long. Great example how to dig in and pounce when the opportunity arises


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2016)

Great England performance aided by an England like collapse by Pakistan but ruthless none the less. Sets up the Oval nicely although Pakistan did win there last time the sides met


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2016)

Great performance from England. Having Woakes bowling well has made a big difference. Now England have 3 quality bowlers to keep the pressure on the Pakistani batsmen. 

Shame this is not a 5 match series as its been a cracker so far with plenty of ebb and flow and shifts in momentum between two fairly evenly balanced teams. Plus there has been a good contest between bat and ball which is certainly not the case much of the time in the modern game.


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## patricks148 (Aug 8, 2016)

A very good win for England, but they struggled again to get rid of 10 and Jack.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 9, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Great performance from England. Having Woakes bowling well has made a big difference. Now England have 3 quality bowlers to keep the pressure on the Pakistani batsmen. 

Shame this is not a 5 match series as its been a cracker so far with plenty of ebb and flow and shifts in momentum between two fairly evenly balanced teams. Plus there has been a good contest between bat and ball which is certainly not the case much of the time in the modern game.
		
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Also this was the first time in years that Finn has looked like a proper fast bowler
Not putting too pressure on him after one performance but an on form Finn is definitely worth a place in the 13 for me. I don't think he's been anywhere near good enough recently and I've been moaning about giving someone else a chance
Nice to be proved wrong every now and then
&#128512;


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## Tongo (Aug 9, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			Also this was the first time in years that Finn has looked like a proper fast bowler
Not putting too pressure on him after one performance but an on form Finn is definitely worth a place in the 13 for me. I don't think he's been anywhere near good enough recently and I've been moaning about giving someone else a chance
Nice to be proved wrong every now and then
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I like Finn as a bowler; certainly provides something that the others don't. But I get the impression he is a confidence player and when he isn't confident and the form isn't there then he struggles. Would rather have him in and around the team than languishing in county cricket though.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 9, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great England performance aided by an England like collapse by Pakistan but ruthless none the less. Sets up the Oval nicely although Pakistan did win there last time the sides met
		
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If we bat properly we don't lose. All our nearly men - Hayes Ballance and Vince need to concentrate and play test cricket not one day cricket. They have the skill. But they all need to prove they have the patience and application.
The Oval is always a fair batting track so we SHOULD be alright.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 11, 2016)

Has Cook just announced to everyone how scared England are of facing spin late in test matches on wearing pitches? Seems a strange decision to bat first on a green pitch with overcast conditions. Definitely think we should have bowled first and planned to a skittle them in the first innings and then bat long enough in our first innings to only have to bat once or chase a very low total in our second innings.


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## Tongo (Aug 11, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Has Cook just announced to everyone how scared England are of facing spin late in test matches on wearing pitches? Seems a strange decision to bat first on a green pitch with overcast conditions. Definitely think we should have bowled first and planned to a skittle them in the first innings and then bat long enough in our first innings to only have to bat once or chase a very low total in our second innings.
		
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Collapse alert! Collapse alert! 

(63/1 to 74/4 in next to no time!)


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## richart (Aug 11, 2016)

Cracking days play. 300/350 first innings makes for a good test match.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 11, 2016)

Good fight back in the end and important to get a wicket tonight before stumps. Sets up an interesting day tomorrow.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 13, 2016)

Pakistan batting well and showing up England's cowardly decision to bat first after winning the toss. Would love to know who else apart from Cook was involved in that decision. It was a perfect first day pitch for the England seam attack and we bottled it because we were scared of possibly facing a spinner batting on day 4 or 5.


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## Tongo (Aug 13, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Pakistan batting well and showing up England's cowardly decision to bat first after winning the toss. Would love to know who else apart from Cook was involved in that decision. It was a perfect first day pitch for the England seam attack and we bottled it because we were scared of possibly facing a spinner batting on day 4 or 5.
		
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Looking like it could be a match losing decision!


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## Tongo (Aug 14, 2016)

Disappointing performance from England but a thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining series. Shame there isnt a 5th test as a decider.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Disappointing performance from England but a thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining series. Shame there isnt a 5th test as a decider.
		
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Nope instead we get 5 pointless ODIS that no one cares about just to ensure the counties get their ticket sales. Series really needs a 5th test.

Test rankings now very very close at the top, makes for much more interest without their being a standout team thats for sure


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## Tongo (Aug 14, 2016)

fundy said:



			Nope instead we get 5 pointless ODIS that no one cares about just to ensure the counties get their ticket sales. Series really needs a 5th test.

Test rankings now very very close at the top, makes for much more interest without their being a standout team thats for sure
		
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Or take one from the Sri Lanka series and make it a 2-5 split. Sri Lanka were always going to struggle in May and early June. Surely the ECB need to look at the quality of the opposition when they scheduling tours.


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## fundy (Aug 14, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Or take one from the Sri Lanka series and make it a 2-5 split. Sri Lanka were always going to struggle in May and early June. Surely the ECB need to look at the quality of the opposition when they scheduling tours.
		
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Sri Lanka currently stuffing the no 1 ranked side  (yes i know in very very different conditions!) 

Problem is number of tests allocated a few years in advance.

Genuinely think the sooner ODIs are done away with the better though, 5 test series then a 5 T20 series be spot on for me


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 14, 2016)

fundy said:



			Sri Lanka currently stuffing the no 1 ranked side  (yes i know in very very different conditions!) 

Problem is number of tests allocated a few years in advance.

Genuinely think the sooner ODIs are done away with the better though, 5 test series then a 5 T20 series be spot on for me
		
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All a question of taste.

For me the ODI's are of far more interest than the "chip shop" cricket that is T20.

I would like to see more 5 game Test series but the problem is in selling the tickets for anything other than the Ashes. Just ask Glamorgan, Durham & Hants; all of whom have lost money on hosting Tests against the so called "lesser lights".


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 14, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Pakistan batting well and showing up England's cowardly decision to bat first after winning the toss. Would love to know who else apart from Cook was involved in that decision. It was a perfect first day pitch for the England seam attack and we bottled it because we were scared of possibly facing a spinner batting on day 4 or 5.
		
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It was a poor decision imo and shows an inherent fear of spin. Doesn't bode well for the winter tour


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## Norrin Radd (Aug 15, 2016)

i couldnt believe Cook batted first, all the pundits were saying bowl and he says bat ,what happens ? we needed a spin bowler to score runs for us because the batsmen were skittled in the morning session .
 lesson learned Alistair?


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## DCB (Aug 15, 2016)

Norrin Radd said:



			i couldnt believe Cook batted first, all the pundits were saying bowl and he says bat ,what happens ? we needed a spin bowler to score runs for us because the batsmen were skittled in the morning session .
 lesson learned Alistair?
		
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It's not a "spin bowler who can score runs" it's batsman who can play Test cricket and stay at the crease that are needed. The batsmen should be capable of playing or not playing the shots required. Far too many errors by the top order puts pressure on the middle and lower order guys. 

Well done Pakistan though, they played well both in the field and when batting. Deserved win for them.


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## Tongo (Aug 15, 2016)

Norrin Radd said:



			i couldnt believe Cook batted first, all the pundits were saying bowl and he says bat ,what happens ? we needed a spin bowler to score runs for us because the batsmen were skittled in the morning session .
 lesson learned Alistair?
		
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DCB said:



			It's not a "spin bowler who can score runs" it's batsman who can play Test cricket and stay at the crease that are needed. The batsmen should be capable of playing or not playing the shots required. Far too many errors by the top order puts pressure on the middle and lower order guys. 

Well done Pakistan though, they played well both in the field and when batting. Deserved win for them.
		
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Cook should have put faith in his batsmen and bowlers though. By attempting to avoid facing Yashir in the 4th innings he was hiding his batsmen. He also could have made a statement by putting Pakistan in by effectively saying that we have the attack to take advantage of the conditions and skittle them out. Particularly as the Pakistani batting line-up had been suspect for most of the series and England's bowlers had been fantastic. 

It was a defensive decision and one that seriously backfired.


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## fundy (Aug 20, 2016)

Be good to see Wood back for the ODIs and the winter series, bowled with some serious wheels at T20 finals day today, including completely embarassing Root earlier!


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Aug 21, 2016)

Tongo said:



			Cook should have put faith in his batsmen and bowlers though. By attempting to avoid facing Yashir in the 4th innings he was hiding his batsmen. He also could have made a statement by putting Pakistan in by effectively saying that we have the attack to take advantage of the conditions and skittle them out. Particularly as the Pakistani batting line-up had been suspect for most of the series and England's bowlers had been fantastic. 

It was a defensive decision and one that seriously backfired.
		
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Just heard something online where I think it was a ex-England captain suggests that the decision was made purely on stats IE on this ground x% of games are won by the team batting first.
The pitch and weather didn't even come into the equation. 
Is that even possibly true?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2016)

fundy said:



			Be good to see Wood back for the ODIs and the winter series, bowled with some serious wheels at T20 finals day today, including completely embarassing Root earlier!
		
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We were at T20 finals day and Woods' bowling was outstanding - you could clearly see how quick he was and Root just couldn't deal with it 

It was a great day -some superb batting on display but some of the catching was out of this world


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## fundy (Aug 21, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We were at T20 finals day and Woods' bowling was outstanding - you could clearly see how quick he was and Root just couldn't deal with it 

It was a great day -some superb batting on display but some of the catching was out of this world
		
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3 good games that all swung one way and then the other, the losing side were a decent favourite at some point in each game. 150-170 games on a pitch with a little in it and boundaries back by far the best T20 games for me, give me them over 200+ plays 190 on a road and short boundaries anyday

Duckett did his reputation no harm with his innings in the semi, we'll be seeing a lot more of him and thought Wakeley led Northants superbly and provided the calm head in both games when they they were in trouble

Fielding was a bit surreal at times, a few basic misfields and quite a few straightforward drops (and another Bairstow howler), combined with a string of stunning catches not to mention a stop by Stokes on the long off boundary that you couldnt see anyone else making!

And still they insist we need Franchises, cant say I agree when you see days like this, they just need to televise and market the earlier rounds better imo, must have been a cracking day to have been at (and almost always is)


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 21, 2016)

I heard Flintoff talking in the week and he was against franchises. The logic was quite simple, you care about your team, you don't care about someone else's. He watches Lancashire, he wouldn't watch Manchester. Would Surrey fans go to Lord's to watch London play? Maybe, maybe not. Personally I don't think your British fan is ready for franchises or wants them. Sort the calendar out, that is more key.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2016)

fundy said:



			3 good games that all swung one way and then the other, the losing side were a decent favourite at some point in each game. 150-170 games on a pitch with a little in it and boundaries back by far the best T20 games for me, give me them over 200+ plays 190 on a road and short boundaries anyday

Duckett did his reputation no harm with his innings in the semi, we'll be seeing a lot more of him and thought Wakeley led Northants superbly and provided the calm head in both games when they they were in trouble

Fielding was a bit surreal at times, a few basic misfields and quite a few straightforward drops (and another Bairstow howler), combined with a string of stunning catches not to mention a stop by Stokes on the long off boundary that you couldnt see anyone else making!

And still they insist we need Franchises, cant say I agree when you see days like this, they just need to televise and market the earlier rounds better imo, must have been a cracking day to have been at (and almost always is)
		
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Finals day is prob the best day out compared to all the other t20 comps - it's a real atmosphere and with 3 games it makes it all worthwhile - I don't see how you could have that with franchises.

The games yesterday had it all - some terrific bowling , crisp clean striking , bit of fielding mix ups , the odd howler 

Duckett was superb in the first game - the boy can hit a ball , was impressed with Jennings , he could be another to look out for soon 

Apart Stokes and Wood all other "superstars" failed to deliver

It's a great day out and we will look to go again next year


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 21, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I heard Flintoff talking in the week and he was against franchises. The logic was quite simple, you care about your team, you don't care about someone else's. He watches Lancashire, he wouldn't watch Manchester. Would Surrey fans go to Lord's to watch London play? Maybe, maybe not. Personally I don't think your British fan is ready for franchises or wants them. Sort the calendar out, that is more key.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Finals day is prob the best day out compared to all the other t20 comps - it's a real atmosphere and with 3 games it makes it all worthwhile - I don't see how you could have that with franchises.
		
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If you set up franchises and attract the best players in the world to play in it then you will attract the fans. I'm sure a Birmingham franchise with a couple of top Indian players would attract in local Indian fans for example. 

Couldn't they just keep finals day as it is even with franchises LP? 8 or 10 franchise teams with the top 4 qualifying for finals day. Did you go specifically because a particular team was there or just to watch exciting cricket? I suspect a lot of fans were neutrals having a day out and this would be enhanced if the top T20 players from around the world were involved.


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## Tongo (Aug 21, 2016)

Oohmeoldbacksknackered said:



			Just heard something online where I think it was a ex-England captain suggests that the decision was made purely on stats IE on this ground x% of games are won by the team batting first.
The pitch and weather didn't even come into the equation. 
Is that even possibly true?
		
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I hope not. That's the sort of tomfoolery that plagued the Moores era second time round. I thought England had got past what the laptop told them and had started using their brains again.


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## Tongo (Aug 21, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you set up franchises and attract the best players in the world to play in it then you will attract the fans. I'm sure a Birmingham franchise with a couple of top Indian players would attract in local Indian fans for example. 

Couldn't they just keep finals day as it is even with franchises LP? 8 or 10 franchise teams with the top 4 qualifying for finals day. Did you go specifically because a particular team was there or just to watch exciting cricket? I suspect a lot of fans were neutrals having a day out and this would be enhanced if the top T20 players from around the world were involved.
		
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The top Indian players are unlikely to come over as the BCCI want to try and keep the IPL as the number one T20 comp. Hence why none of them come over at the moment. English teams also have to compete with the Caribbean Premier League as well. At the moment it is a competition they are losing. so they can tempt players like Gayle and Sammy but not for the whole tournament. Until the ECB realise that they need to change the calendar this will only continue. 

I also am not convinced with franchises. There arent enough big population basis where there are county cricket grounds. Plus counties have alienated many fans that dont live in the city where the county ground is based as they no longer take games elsewhere. Take Hampshire, who play every match at the Rose Bowl. How many fans hack it down from the north of the county to watch matches? Unlike Football there isnt the ethos of large numbers of supporters who travel. If they merged Hampshire with Sussex and Kent, for instance, i wouldnt be interested in going to Hove or Canterbury to watch games.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 21, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			If you set up franchises and attract the best players in the world to play in it then you will attract the fans. I'm sure a Birmingham franchise with a couple of top Indian players would attract in local Indian fans for example.
		
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In other countries they don't have the same amount of county cricket teams - so if you set up Franchises where with multi millionaires owning them like IPL then where do they play ? T20 right now allows a lot of counties to get in much needed fundings - take that away from them and counties will struggle more than they do now. Traditional county fans wouldn't go near a "Birmingham team" if they were Worcester supports for example.




			Couldn't they just keep finals day as it is even with franchises LP? 8 or 10 franchise teams with the top 4 qualifying for finals day. Did you go specifically because a particular team was there or just to watch exciting cricket? I suspect a lot of fans were neutrals having a day out and this would be enhanced if the top T20 players from around the world were involved.
		
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We booked the tickets in the hope that Somerset would be there - a lot of county fans do that then either go or sell them on if their team didn't make it - yesterday was half full of neutrals with cricket clubs around the country using it as a day out and the other half from the counties at the comp 

The Top players in the world play in the big T20 comps because they get paid a lot of money to do so - mainly because those "franchise" teams are owned by very rich people and they play in countries where thousands will pack the ground each week in glorious weather because their climate is perfect for it 

In the UK we wouldn't sell out every game , where do the millionaire come from to "own" the teams - the counties would stick their fingers up at it because it takes revenue from them , our weather is ever changing even in the summer games are washed out , our game just isn't set up for the way the IPL or BigBash works and I'm glad - the T20 is great in this country - a few things need tweaking but they try to change things every year to try and attract bigger crowds and every year teams do get some very big players to come along for a month or so


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2016)

Massive score incoming in the ODI and Hales got a chance to break plenty of records, first up the Judges highest English ODI score of 167. Still 14 overs to go too lol


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 30, 2016)

Shame Hales is out but a great platform for the hitters Buttler and Morgan to launch an assault for the last 10 overs. I wonder if Hales' position in the team is still in question.


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## Piece (Aug 30, 2016)

You could say that Pakistan are officially "chasing leather". Catching and fielding has been poor, especially in the crowd....


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## fundy (Aug 30, 2016)

just the 444-3 then, ODI highest ever score


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## Tongo (Aug 30, 2016)

fundy said:



			Massive score incoming in the ODI and Hales got a chance to break plenty of records, *first up the Judges highest English ODI score of 167*. Still 14 overs to go too lol
		
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Disappointed that the Judge's effort has been eclipsed bearing in mind that is almost a quarter of a century ago as it was a standout performance in a less destructive era for ODI cricket but that is some performance from Hales and England! Shame the World Cup is another 3 years away.


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## patricks148 (Aug 30, 2016)

Piece said:



			You could say that Pakistan are officially "chasing leather". Catching and fielding has been poor, especially in the crowd.... 

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I know how the Pakistan team feel, i played in a few games like that:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 30, 2016)

Fantastic performance, especially from Hales and good to see him break Smith's ODI record


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