# Shoreham Air Display Disaster - Flowers



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2015)

Seen on the news earlier this evening a 'bridge of sighs' close to the site of the calamity getting stacked with flowers.  I don't really get this.  We know that 11 folks have died and a good number injured.  But why all the flowers?

The cynical grumpy-git side of me would point at them and cite Lady Di syndrome - public grieving for someone you don't know because...you want to part part of it...

But maybe there is more to it that that superficiality.  Maybe this is actually a reflection of a deeper malaise or problem the majority of us have today - in that we don't have a religious faith to fall back on in such times when our minds are troubled and upset by people, places and things we cannot control and are powerless over.  Our minds are messed up by it.  And with nowhere to go with these troubles and no personal way of dealing with them many seek to 'do something' and so we see the flowers.

But does this actually help us? Or does the very act of 'shared remembrance or grief' of this what can only be a rather superficial sort (most probably don't know the dead or injured after all) simply cement in our minds the feelings of powerlessness.  And we then have to then live with these feelings - which can turn quite easily into frustration, anger and resentment - and so affect how we view everything else that goes on around us and shapes our response to other events that happen over which we are powerless.

All coming down to the fact that any spiritual/religious belief and faith that most of us might have had 30yrs ago has gone.  And maybe so too has a significant tool we were provided with to cope with and come to terms with significant traumatic events in life - such as the Shoreham Air Display Disaster.

Anyway - all that probably doesn't make sense - just a dump of some thoughts I've had over this this evening about why we see this today when we didn't in the past.


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## Golfmmad (Aug 26, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Seen on the news earlier this evening a 'bridge of sighs' close to the site of the calamity getting stacked with flowers.  I don't really get this.  We know that 11 folks have died and a good number injured.  But why all the flowers?

The cynical grumpy-git side of me would point at them and cite Lady Di syndrome - public grieving for someone you don't know because...you want to part part of it...

But maybe there is more to it that that superficiality.  Maybe this is actually a reflection of a deeper malaise or problem the majority of us have today - in that we don't have a religious faith to fall back on in such times when our minds are troubled and upset by people, places and things we cannot control and are powerless over.  Our minds are messed up by it.  And with nowhere to go with these troubles and no personal way of dealing with them many seek to 'do something' and so we see the flowers.

But does this actually help us? Or does the very act of 'shared remembrance or grief' of this what can only be a rather superficial sort (most probably don't know the dead or injured after all) simply cement in our minds the feelings of powerlessness.  And we then have to then live with these feelings - which can turn quite easily into frustration, anger and resentment - and so affect how we view everything else that goes on around us and shapes our response to other events that happen over which we are powerless.

All coming down to the fact that any spiritual/religious belief and faith that most of us might have had 30yrs ago has gone.  And maybe so too has a significant tool we were provided with to cope with and come to terms with significant traumatic events in life - such as the Shoreham Air Display Disaster.

Anyway - all that probably doesn't make sense - just a dump of some thoughts I've had over this this evening about why we see this today when we didn't in the past.
		
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First of all, those that have lost their loved ones have my deepest sympathy.

I think it's the local community that are expressing their sadness, shock and disbelief and just want to show their respect in the only way they can. I would think that nobody has ever seen such a tragic disaster in their lifetime such as this. Even to just think about what happened, in your own mind, is unprecedented and is almost unbelievable.

Accidents have happened at airshows in the past, where usually, tragically, just the pilot has been killed. But this is different, when you see the picture of the plane seeming to be landing on the carriageway and a split second later erupting in a huge fireball with all the devastation after........... it doesn't bear thinking about.

Just my thoughts.


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## Beezerk (Aug 26, 2015)

Maybe in this modern age of 24 hour news feeds and not even blinking when another 50 die in an Iraq bombing, it's good to show some public grief and respect. Better that than bloody tweeting it or putting some crap on Facebook.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Aug 26, 2015)

Whether it's to pay respect to those who unfortunately lost their life in this sad and tragic incident or for some sort of self gratification, each to their own, not for me, if it helps them cope I see no harm in it.


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## JustOne (Aug 26, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe this is actually a reflection of a deeper malaise or problem the majority of us have today - in that we don't have a religious faith to fall back on in such times when our minds are troubled and upset by people, places and things we cannot control and are powerless over.  Our minds are messed up by it.  And with nowhere to go with these troubles and no personal way of dealing with them many seek to 'do something' and so we see the flowers.
		
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On the contrary, I think it's the religious nutters who leave the flowers 

Tragic though the accident was I don't think you either need religion OR LACK OF IT in order to mourn your dead (even if it's someone you never new) as we must all have a natural instinct to 'feel the loss'.


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## ger147 (Aug 26, 2015)

There are victims who haven't yet been identified. Can this thread be removed please?


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## Hobbit (Aug 27, 2015)

ger147 said:



			There are victims who haven't yet been identified. Can this thread be removed please?
		
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Why?


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 27, 2015)

ger147 said:



			There are victims who haven't yet been identified. Can this thread be removed please?
		
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Mods have discussed and dont  see a problem with this thread
It is about public outpouring of grief following a tragic event and how this manifests itself.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 27, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Seen on the news earlier this evening a 'bridge of sighs' close to the site of the calamity getting stacked with flowers.  I don't really get this.  We know that 11 folks have died and a good number injured.  But why all the flowers?

The cynical grumpy-git side of me would point at them and cite Lady Di syndrome - public grieving for someone you don't know because...you want to part part of it...

But maybe there is more to it that that superficiality.  Maybe this is actually a reflection of a deeper malaise or problem the majority of us have today - in that we don't have a religious faith to fall back on in such times when our minds are troubled and upset by people, places and things we cannot control and are powerless over.  Our minds are messed up by it.  And with nowhere to go with these troubles and no personal way of dealing with them many seek to 'do something' and so we see the flowers.

But does this actually help us? Or does the very act of 'shared remembrance or grief' of this what can only be a rather superficial sort (most probably don't know the dead or injured after all) simply cement in our minds the feelings of powerlessness.  And we then have to then live with these feelings - which can turn quite easily into frustration, anger and resentment - and so affect how we view everything else that goes on around us and shapes our response to other events that happen over which we are powerless.

*All coming down to the fact that any spiritual/religious belief and faith that most of us might have had 30yrs ago has gone.  And maybe so too has a significant tool we were provided with to cope with and come to terms with significant traumatic events in life - such as the Shoreham Air Display Disaster.*

Anyway - all that probably doesn't make sense - just a dump of some thoughts I've had over this this evening about why we see this today when we didn't in the past.
		
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Or another explanation may be that people are more comfortable with expressing emotion nowadays? And 30 years ago people would just have bottled it up, not sure many more would have used their faith to cope than do nowadays. Britain had a reputation of being all stiff upper lip and all that, and public displays of emotion were not the British way. And in some cases that is still the case. But for several reasons, and the death of Lady Di was a factor, people are a bit more comfortable with it now. And I imagine some people just want to express their sympathy by leaving flowers.  

Public grieving/paying respect for someone you do not know is not a bad thing in many situations, after all isn't that part of what remembrance day is, or minutes silences/applauses? To me the act of leaving flowers is no more or less meaningful or superficial than using a religious belief to cope. As without wishing to take sides, some may argue that expecting a mythical deity to help you through it could also be superficial.   It's just how people cope, there's no right or wrong way, whatever helps really.


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## Hobbit (Aug 27, 2015)

Openly expressing your feelings/condolences actually helps with things like PTSD. The moving of a memory from front of brain to the 'filing cabinet' at the back of the brain is essential in reconciling your feelings and moving on. And then, of course, there's the feeling that you are not alone and are in fact supported in your grief. Each to their own but I wouldn't decry anyone for showing they care.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 27, 2015)

On the subject, I'm not sure I "get" the many "RIP" posts/pictures/threads on forums, or facebook or such like. 

Why do people do this? 99% of the time, they never knew the person, or had any interaction with them. Seems like an easy get out, to show that you're emotionally involved, without actually having to do anything.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 27, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			On the subject, I'm not sure I "get" the many "RIP" posts/pictures/threads on forums, or facebook or such like. 

Why do people do this? 99% of the time, they never knew the person, or had any interaction with them. Seems like an easy get out, to show that you're emotionally involved, without actually having to do anything.
		
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Modern day version of Book of Condolence?


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 27, 2015)

Masses of flowers, Facebook pages, night time vigils when you don't know the people etc. I'm with CheltenhamHacker, I also don't understand the need for it. I read the other side, why people do it and I certainly don't dismiss it but I guess it is not for me. People seem to need to make their grief or sadness very public now.

I do think it began with Di, I don't remember it happening before then.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 27, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			Modern day version of Book of Condolence?
		
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I'm not 100% what this is, but I imagine you had to at least go to the funeral for this?

Nowadays it seems to be a race as to who can "break the news" and put RIP, or who can be the most upset about it.


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## lex! (Aug 27, 2015)

I am also with CheltenhamHacker. OTT, public display of grief. I remember driving past Broadlands after Di. It was a sea of flowers outside, and she'd only ever visited once.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2015)

It's just showing respect for fellow people when they pass away and give condolences


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 27, 2015)

I don't get it either. It's obviously a tragic event but I don't know why people with no connection feel the need to grieve.

But neither do I see it as an adverse effect of the decline in religious belief (which can only be a good thing incidentally).

I find it objectionable when they hold high profile religious ceremonies for the victims of some disaster, regardless of the religious beliefs held by those victims. I've made sure my other half knows that if I am unfortunate enough to be involved in such a tragedy that I don't want any religious organisation hijacking my death for their own ends.....


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's just showing respect for fellow people when they pass away and give condolences
		
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Is it really showing much respect though? A two second "RIP" on facebook, or a post on here. Doesn't seem that respectful to me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Is it really showing much respect though? A two second "RIP" on facebook, or a post on here. Doesn't seem that respectful to me.
		
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Why doesn't it ?

It's a bad accident that has seen a number of innocent people lose their lives 

Saying RIP is just a little way to pass condolences to the families affected


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 27, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't get it either. It's obviously a tragic event but I don't know why people with no connection feel the need to grieve.

But neither do I see it as an adverse effect of the decline in religious belief (which can only be a good thing incidentally).

I find it objectionable when they hold high profile religious ceremonies for the victims of some disaster, regardless of the religious beliefs held by those victims. I've made sure my other half knows that if I am unfortunate enough to be involved in such a tragedy that I don't want any religious organisation hijacking my death for their own ends.....
		
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My thinking was that in the past when church attendance was significantly greater than today and many held a religious faith and a belief in a God - folks could deal with such events simply through prayer and reflection - they didn't need any other outlet for concern or grief they felt.  However in the lack of any such belief system only outward demonstrations are available - and so we see the flowers, and other public displays of grief.  

And I'm too also not a fan of sometimes far too grandiose religious ceremonies for the victims and families of - or indeed a passing RIP on facebook for someone I didn't really know or know at all.  I don't need to say it to everyone - everyione doesn't need to know - I can simply pray it.  

But maybe those families facing the loss find comfort in an old fashioned way - through the service - even although they might not generally identify themselves with any real religious beliefs.  Many of us still go to church for major life events and important days in the religious calendar so I guess there is still something there for non-believers.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 27, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But maybe those families facing the loss find comfort in an old fashioned way - through the service - even although they might not generally identify themselves with any real religious beliefs.  Many of us still go to church for major life events and important days in the religious calendar so I guess there is still something there for non-believers.
		
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I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone for the way they deal with their grief and that wasn't my intent. It's not for me, however.


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## Golfmmad (Aug 27, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't get it either. It's obviously a tragic event but I don't know why people with no connection feel the need to grieve.
		
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Or another way of looking at it:

Through my work I drive along that section of the A27 weekly, sometimes several times a day. I wasn't working last Saturday but 2 of our drivers were on the very section of road 3 hours before. My boss passed through just 10 minutes before the accident! He had special tickets for the game at Brighton&Hove Albion football match and decided to leave 10 minutes earlier than usual!

It was reported today that all the victims have now been identified. Most of them are from the local area.

As well as feeling deep sympathy for those that have lost their lives,
I expect a lot of local people (including myself) have been thinking - "That could so easily have been me or my family or a close friend.

I think that's a good enough reason for the outpouring of grief from a lot of the people that have not been directly affected, and not for some of the of the reasons that have been suggested.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 27, 2015)

It's a fair point,golf mad. Although you can see why the people you describe feel a connection.

I found out today that a colleague was one of those who died in a different incident that I'd seen on the news and I immediately felt more affected than I had been initially. Even though he worked in a different office and I'd never actually met him.


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## Fyldewhite (Aug 27, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone for the way they deal with their grief and that wasn't my intent. It's not for me, however.
		
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I'd truck with this. Each to their own but I wouldn't be rushing to the florists unless I was personally involved.

As for the lack of faith being a factor? I don't think so. Been to a funeral today and there was a humanist service, was really touching, made everyone think about their place in the universe, and our short time in it. About time we did move on and deal with grief in different ways and celebrate the life we have/had rather than spending it preparing for one that in all probability doesn't happen.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 27, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone for the way they deal with their grief and that wasn't my intent. It's not for me, however.
		
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No problem - didn't take it at all as a criticism.  I'm just try to get behind 'the flowers' and 'public displays of grief' thing - when it is relatively new - since Di as someone mentioned?  And I am not criticising either.  

I just find it something I cannot ever really see me doing - and I'm wondering if there is more to it (for me) than just not being that sort of guy.  Is it because I have a faith and have a personal understanding of the power of acceptance and prayer that I feel no need for anything else.  And so is it perhaps because others *don't*, that *they *feel the need for the flowers.  I don;t know.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 27, 2015)

Golfmmad said:



			Or another way of looking at it:

Through my work I drive along that section of the A27 weekly, sometimes several times a day. I wasn't working last Saturday but 2 of our drivers were on the very section of road 3 hours before. My boss passed through just 10 minutes before the accident! He had special tickets for the game at Brighton&Hove Albion football match and decided to leave 10 minutes earlier than usual!

It was reported today that all the victims have now been identified. Most of them are from the local area.

As well as feeling deep sympathy for those that have lost their lives,
I expect a lot of local people (including myself) have been thinking - "That could so easily have been me or my family or a close friend.

I think that's a good enough reason for the outpouring of grief from a lot of the people that have not been directly affected, and not for some of the of the reasons that have been suggested.
		
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Yes of course it could have been you - but the probability of the accident were so small and then the circumstances that *you * might have been involved means that the combination is pretty negligible.  If it were you in that spot that day the chances are very high that the aircraft wouldn't have come down - akin to the butterfly effect in a way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 27, 2015)

Public reactions to people passing away has been happening before Di died. Just as laying flowers at scenes of accidents has happened for a long time


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 27, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			I'd truck with this. Each to their own but I wouldn't be rushing to the florists unless I was personally involved.

As for the lack of faith being a factor? I don't think so. Been to a funeral today and there was a humanist service, was really touching, made everyone think about their place in the universe, and our short time in it. About time we did move on and deal with grief in different ways and celebrate the life we have/had rather than spending it preparing for one that in all probability doesn't happen.
		
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In the context of what I'm trying to get at I think I'd put humanism in the same place as a religious faith.  It's about having coping and acceptance mechanisms that help us live life on life's terms sort of stuff.  The ability to 'hand-over' stuff that we can't do anything about and so not carry it as grief or anger when we just don't need to and that make our ability to cope with things that really DO matter to us all the less.


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## MashieNiblick (Aug 27, 2015)

Maybe it is because there is a simple truth in the words of John Donne

".. any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.."

People feel a connection and a need to express it.


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## Golfmmad (Aug 27, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's a fair point,golf mad. Although you can see why the people you describe feel a connection.

I found out today that a colleague was one of those who died in a different incident that I'd seen on the news and I immediately felt more affected than I had been initially. Even though he worked in a different office and I'd never actually met him.
		
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes of course it could have been you - but the probability of the accident were so small and then the circumstances that *you * might have been involved means that the combination is pretty negligible.  If it were you in that spot that day the chances are very high that the aircraft wouldn't have come down - akin to the butterfly effect in a way.
		
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I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to convey.

But fairwayDodger has got it - :thup:

I'm still trying to think of what the "Butterfly effect" means. :confuse


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 27, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes of course it could have been you - but the probability of the accident were so small and then the circumstances that *you * might have been involved means that the combination is pretty negligible.  If it were you in that spot that day the chances are very high that the aircraft wouldn't have come down - akin to the butterfly effect in a way.
		
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Huh??  How do you work that one out?  if you were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, then you got caught up in it. agree that the chances of any particular individual being involved are small. but you are missing the point

which is that a number of  towns in that area have experienced a traumatic tragedy, those 11 who unfortunately died would have been known by many many people, so im guessing that lots of local people would know a family that has been affected. and this is a way for the community to show its feelings.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 27, 2015)

A lot of the flowers and cards left on the bridge are from the local community and those that were at the airshow. Given the severity and devastation of the accident you can understand the sense of disbelief and certainly for some travelling on the road "there by the grace of god". I don't think it's a bad thing. Not something I'd consider doing but I can see why people have


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## drdel (Aug 27, 2015)

The people caught up in this awful accident have my sympathy.

However I personally find this trend to be somewhat distasteful; almost attention seeking. The need to showoff seems a trend in society that has crossed into most areas of life.  Everything seems to require a 'presentation' - even jobs for cleaners!

When the visual 'picture' takes over from the substance things have gone astray.


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## JustOne (Aug 27, 2015)

drdel said:



			The people caught up in this awful accident have my sympathy.

However I personally find this trend to be somewhat distasteful; almost attention seeking. The need to showoff seems a trend in society that has crossed into most areas of life.  Everything seems to require a 'presentation' - even jobs for cleaners!

When the visual 'picture' takes over from the substance things have gone astray.
		
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I have seen the flowers... didn't notice anyone 'showing off', if they were I must've missed it, or what 'substance' is/has been missing?

It's not the good old days any more, social media/internet is a place people turn to nowadays (as does the media reporting) so sitting quietly in a church congregation isn't necessarily behaving the way people are 'supposed to'.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 27, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Huh??  How do you work that one out?  if you were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, then you got caught up in it. agree that the chances of any particular individual being involved are small. but you are missing the point

which is that a number of  towns in that area have experienced a traumatic tragedy, those 11 who unfortunately died would have been known by many many people, so im guessing that lots of local people would know a family that has been affected. and this is a way for the community to show its feelings.
		
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Because the air crash was such an improbable event; as was the aircraft landing on the road as it did; with the particular combination of vehicles.  We had the outcome that happened.  Change the vehicles on the road you have a different scenario and hence it is quite probable that the aircraft would not have crashed or it would not have crashed precisely where it did.   Change just one car on the road you have a new scenario - perhaps exactly the same associated probabilities - but then these are just probabilities not actuals.   I don't believe you can play 'what-if' scenarios changing the details of just one very specific element of an scenario that has happened - you have to look at the probabilities of the new scenario.


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## JustOne (Aug 28, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because the air crash was such an improbable event; as was the aircraft landing on the road as it did; with the particular combination of vehicles.  We had the outcome that happened.  Change the vehicles on the road you have a different scenario and hence it is quite probable that the aircraft would not have crashed or it would not have crashed precisely where it did.   Change just one car on the road you have a new scenario - perhaps exactly the same associated probabilities - but then these are just probabilities not actuals.   I don't believe you can play 'what-if' scenarios changing the details of just one very specific element of an scenario that has happened - you have to look at the probabilities of the new scenario.
		
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I'm sure that'll comfort those that lost their loved ones.....  

Stick to prayer :thup:


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 28, 2015)

Golfmmad said:



			I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to convey.

But fairwayDodger has got it - :thup:

*I'm still trying to think of what the "Butterfly effect" means. :confuse*

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In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state. 

 And yes I did copy that from wikipedia


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 28, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state. 

 And yes I did copy that from wikipedia
		
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So I tiny change in the initial conditions for the aircraft, pilot and weather may well have resulted in the air crash not happening at all.  And in a similar way tiny changes would have changed the drivers on the road and bystanders watching.  All I'm saying is that it is one horrid scenario and combination of circumstances, and though it is natural to contemplate 'what-if' I had been on the road at the time - the probability is that the aircraft wouldn't have come down.  

The calamity should be considered for what it was - terrible for all those involved.  But we do instinctively involve ourselves and project on outcomes if there is a possibility we might have been there also.  I'm not saying any that of the feelings and displays of concern and sympathy are at all out of place - of course they are not.  I was just wondering why - these days more than in the past (seemingly) - many of us get quite so emotionally involved in this sort of way.  And some have already explained why they think that's the case - and I don't disagree.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 28, 2015)

JustOne said:



			I'm sure that'll comfort those that lost their loved ones.....  

Stick to prayer :thup:
		
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Not sure why you say that.  Seems a little sneering and in this context I don't think that's necessary.


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 28, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So I tiny change in the initial conditions for the aircraft, pilot and weather may well have resulted in the air crash not happening at all.  And in a similar way tiny changes would have changed the drivers on the road and bystanders watching.  All I'm saying is that it is one horrid scenario and combination of circumstances, and though it is natural to contemplate 'what-if' I had been on the road at the time - the probability is that the aircraft wouldn't have come down.
		
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Errrr conversational gonads IMO


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 28, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Errrr conversational gonads IMO
		
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Maybe - but when you combine random events in my mind you can't just change one of them and expect all the other events to happen (or not happen) in precisely the same way.  But that's just my view on the nature of the way things work - and probably not held by most and that may be why as mentioned it is easy to 'put yourself in their position' - and that certainly stirs the emotions.


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 28, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe - but when you combine random events in my mind you can't just change one of them and expect all the other events to happen (or not happen) in precisely the same way.  But that's just my view on the nature of the way things work - and probably not held by most and that may be why as mentioned it is easy to 'put yourself in their position' - and that certainly stirs the emotions.
		
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But how can the fact that there were cars on that bit of road have any effect on whether or not the plane crashed ?

Put a different mix of cars on that road and the plane would still have come down there, totally unconnected with whatever was going on above and im not going to speculate on what went wrong.

One of those agree to disagree things.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 28, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			But how can the fact that there were cars on that bit of road have any effect on whether or not the plane crashed ?

Put a different mix of cars on that road and the plane would still have come down there, totally unconnected with whatever was going on above and im not going to speculate on what went wrong.

One of those agree to disagree things.
		
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You've missed the point about chaos theory.
I get what SILH is trying to say. One individual tiny thing can change everything, you can't just switch out a certain action with another action and assume everything else stays the same.


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 28, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			You've missed the point about chaos theory.
I get what SILH is trying to say. One individual tiny thing can change everything, you can't just switch out a certain action with another action and assume everything else stays the same.
		
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I obviously need to watch more Jurassic Park


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## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 28, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I obviously need to watch more Jurassic Park
		
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Or the "Butterfly effect".  Not an amazing film though, to be honest, so don't make it your highest priority!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 28, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			You've missed the point about chaos theory.
I get what SILH is trying to say. One individual tiny thing can change everything, you can't just switch out a certain action with another action and assume everything else stays the same.
		
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yup - that's it.  Though it's at a bit of a tangent to why folks act as they do.  I suspect many do 'what-if' personal substitution into situations and that can really stir the emotions - but it's just something I don't do.  For me it's a pointless exercise that only generates concerns I don't need to have.   Maybe that's why I don't really get the 'flowers' thing


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## gregers (Aug 28, 2015)

and IF my uncle had been born  WOMAN he wouldve been my aunty.


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## JustOne (Aug 28, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe - but when you combine random events in my mind you can't just change one of them and expect all the other events to happen (or not happen) in precisely the same way.  But that's just my view on the nature of the way things work - and probably not held by most and that may be why as mentioned it is easy to 'put yourself in their position' - and that certainly stirs the emotions.
		
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The reason it's easy to put yourself into that position is because it's natural (inbuilt in all of us) to do so... it's a self preservation thing (rather like fight or flight) that we try to understand danger so that we can avoid it... and putting ourselves into imaginary positions is part of that defense. :thup:


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## SocketRocket (Aug 28, 2015)

Jeez!   It's only some flowers.


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