# Us pga black out



## anotherdouble (Jul 13, 2017)

The guardian on twitter reporting sky have lost rights to broadcast live.


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## guest100718 (Jul 13, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			The guardian on twitter reporting sky have lost rights to broadcast live.
		
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 dont have Sky
I


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

This has potential to be great news and a very positive step away from Sky having the monopoly on Golf - talk of live on You Tube free to air as well as on dedicated US PGA websites.

Good to see that the US PGA want to ensure that the golf is watched by as many people as possible


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2017)

I'd be amazed if it ends up free somewhere. 

They talk a good game during the article. But as a business I don't see them refusing the Sky money without making it back elsewhere......


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## Bazzatron (Jul 13, 2017)

Can't see them refusing money from sky and then giving it away for free.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2017)

Bazzatron said:



			Can't see them refusing money from sky and then giving it away for free.
		
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Unless someone comes in with a significant offer what sense does it make to give it away for free.


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## Bazzatron (Jul 13, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Unless someone comes in with a significant offer what sense does it make to give it away for free.
		
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They won't.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 13, 2017)

Please please please bt sport snap up the golf


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

Bazzatron said:



			Can't see them refusing money from sky and then giving it away for free.
		
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Unless they can make a fortune on the advertising revenue

Someone like You Tube etc can still buy the rights to air but show it free to air


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2017)

Bazzatron said:



			They won't.
		
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I agree although some on here don't see the bigger picture and to suggest there will be significant ad revenue to pay for it smacks of one thing. Even more interruptions than we already get on the current feeds, which will make it a difficult and hard viewing experience and one that won't exactly entice a new viewing generation


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## shivas irons (Jul 14, 2017)

I'm sure Sky will sort out a deal to broadcast the PGA live but to be honest I dont think they will lose any sleep if they do lose it as its the least of the big 4 majors,just hope the USPGA get their "new platform" coverage for the event right as it could be a complete disaster for them.I for one are more than happy with Sky's golf coverage.


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## jim8flog (Jul 14, 2017)

pauljames87 said:



			Please please please bt sport snap up the golf
		
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Given the  reasons given by the PGA for not renewing the deal with Sky I cannot see them doing a deal with BT who must have far fewer subscribers than Sky.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

Sky have a contract with the PGA Tour until 2021, the fuss is they have lost the right to the US PGA Tour Championship, 1 event, that's all, 1 event.

Amazing people are happy about it when some of you are tied in to a Sky Contract.


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## Duckster (Jul 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky have a contract with the PGA Tour until 2021, the fuss is they have lost the right to the US PGA Tour Championship, 1 event, that's all, 1 event.

Amazing people are happy about it when some of you are tied in to a Sky Contract.
		
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It's the PGA Championship, the last major of the year, they have lost, not the PGA Tour Championship which is played in Sept.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 14, 2017)

I reckon they'll have a global subscription platform where you can sign up to watch full coverage of the tournament on their website. Definitely won't be giving it away for free.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

Duckster said:



			It's the PGA Championship, the last major of the year, they have lost, not the PGA Tour Championship which is played in Sept.
		
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Cheers :thup: just the one event though, the deal that has finished is with the pga of america, they haven't lost the rights to everything else as presumed above.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2017)

So they don't renew a deal with a subscription service that most golf fans have already got because they want to have more people watch it and they are then going to ask people to pay further to watch it - how does that encourage more to watch the event ? I will be amazed if it's not on a social media platform like Facebook or You Tube who will pay for the rights but will be free to air , would be even better if BBC look to get it


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## Duckster (Jul 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Cheers :thup: just the one event though, the deal that has finished is with the pga of america, they haven't lost the rights to everything else as presumed above.
		
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Oh aye, it's only the one event, but it is still a biggie.  Granted it's arguably the major with the least appeal.  

I'll not be cancelling my SKy Sports due to it.  Bit of a downer though. It'll be interesting to see how they do try to broadcast it over here.


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

contract issues over first 2 days of the masters next year too

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/201...ters-danger-lost-uk-television-no-deal-place/


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## slowhand (Jul 14, 2017)

fundy said:



			contract issues over first 2 days of the masters next year too

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/201...ters-danger-lost-uk-television-no-deal-place/

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Yes, but we all know that doesn't start until the back 9 on Sunday


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## Steve Bamford (Jul 14, 2017)

Do we think that the PGA of America and the Masters organisation are simply asking too much money, or aren't bowing to the pressure Sky place for total-exclusivity in the UK?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2017)

fundy said:



			contract issues over first 2 days of the masters next year too

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/201...ters-danger-lost-uk-television-no-deal-place/

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Two fewer days we have to hear them sucking up to "Jack" and the Augusta committee then. I'm not a huge fan of the BBC coverage but at least they don't suck up in the same embarrassing way Sky do at this event.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2017)

fundy said:



			contract issues over first 2 days of the masters next year too

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/201...ters-danger-lost-uk-television-no-deal-place/

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I expect the level in viewing figures on Sky will not please the governing bodies - that's what happens when it's on subscription.

Hopefully BBC can pick it and go back to all four days and the audience widens back up.


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## anotherdouble (Jul 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the level in viewing figures on Sky will not please the governing bodies - that's what happens when it's on subscription.

Hopefully BBC can pick it and go back to all four days and the audience widens back up.
		
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Why would the Beeb want it. They pulled out of every other bit of sport


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2017)

anotherdouble said:



			Why would the Beeb want it. They pulled out of every other bit of sport
		
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Have they "pulled out " or did Sky outbid the by offering more money. BBC still show the sat and Sunday live so obviously still want to show the Masters when they can


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the level in viewing figures on Sky will not please the governing bodies - that's what happens when it's on subscription.

Hopefully BBC can pick it and go back to all four days and the audience widens back up.
		
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I'm not sure the governing bodies control too much what happens at Augusta. 

I think they are the one place that can afford to refuse the money and actually revel the added exclusivity a lack of coverage would provide.


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## brendy (Jul 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the level in viewing figures on Sky will not please the governing bodies - that's what happens when it's on subscription.

Hopefully BBC can pick it and go back to all four days and the audience widens back up.
		
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I'd actually love to see channel 4 or 5 take a run at gaining golf. They are two channels who are taking on genres and ideas rather than ejecting them. I don't watch it but they (C5) breathed life into the likes of Big Brother and continued it's success though maybe not to the levels C4 had in the beginning.

 I really dont mind some adverts etc, bbc sometimes heaped in uninteresting stuff that didn't add much value. The swilken burn clip that they showed showed and reshowed springs to mind when last at St Andrews.


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## DaveR (Jul 14, 2017)

With Sky's new pricing structure I reckon all those overpaid Premiership prima donnas will be pooing their pants that their massive contracts will soon disappear  :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2017)

brendy said:



			I'd actually love to see channel 4 or 5 take a run at gaining golf. They are two channels who are taking on genres and ideas rather than ejecting them. I don't watch it but they (C5) breathed life into the likes of Big Brother and continued it's success though maybe not to the levels C4 had in the beginning.

 I really dont mind some adverts etc, bbc sometimes heaped in uninteresting stuff that didn't add much value. The swilken burn clip that they showed showed and reshowed springs to mind when last at St Andrews.
		
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Yeah C4 do a great job with the Paralympics and the cricket and Ch5 we're pretty decent with football when they did some so would certainly prefer to see them talk on some golf instead of Sky


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2017)

Heard a good podcast about this recently. The PGA are looking to effectively control the broadcast of their product themselves and the model of selling the exclusive rights to the highest TV company is probably numbered. Companies like Facebook and Twitter are entering the market which will shake things up a bit.

The model up to yet has very much been to target a relatively small but mostly affluent bunch golf fans who will pay to watch your product via Sky TV. But that is probably not sustainable in the long term if the game is not engaging with the future viewers of tomorrow. Seems it may be moving more to try and get their product viewed/streamed by a wider (and younger) section of the population. And the social media companies will play a large part in this.


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## Reemul (Jul 14, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			Heard a good podcast about this recently. The PGA are looking to effectively control the broadcast of their product themselves and the model of selling the exclusive rights to the highest TV company is probably numbered. Companies like Facebook and Twitter are entering the market which will shake things up a bit.

The model up to yet has very much been to target a relatively small but mostly affluent bunch golf fans who will pay to watch your product via Sky TV. But that is probably not sustainable in the long term if the game is not engaging with the future viewers of tomorrow. Seems it may be moving more to try and get their product viewed/streamed by a wider (and younger) section of the population. And the social media companies will play a large part in this.
		
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Of the youngsters still won't watch it what with so much choice out there via social media and streaming etc and those that did watch it on Sky etc won't so they could have even less viewers in the short / medium term.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2017)

Reemul said:



			Of the youngsters still won't watch it what with so much choice out there via social media and streaming etc and those that did watch it on Sky etc won't so they could have even less viewers in the short / medium term.
		
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If it's on You Tube etc where the viewing will no doubt be free why would the figures be less ?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If it's on You Tube etc where the viewing will no doubt be free why would the figures be less ?
		
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Rubbish broadband connection for many meaning the golf would be unwatchable. It would be there but buffering and iffy pictures mean it would not be worth trying. Fine for those who have great speeds.


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If it's on You Tube etc where the viewing will no doubt be free why would the figures be less ?
		
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Plenty of older folk who watch on sky wont watch on youtube etc. My father fits 100% into this category and he wont be alone. If this group outnumbers the new viewers (at least initially) then the figure will be less


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

It would be free on Youtube with adverts, the main thing people moan about with Sky is adverts


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Rubbish broadband connection for many meaning the golf would be unwatchable. It would be there but buffering and iffy pictures mean it would not be worth trying. Fine for those who have great speeds.
		
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Add in to that a lack of awareness for many of where it is, and most will assume it's simply not being screened, especially in older demographics. Ad in obtrusive (possibly) advertising from the youtube/FB platform and it isn't making for an ideal viewing spectacle.

The BBC won't touch it no matter how some still bang on about them. That ship has long sailed. I doubt if C4/5 would pick it up, especially as a one off as again it doesn't seem to fit their plans and seems doubtful they'd pool resource/cost into something with limited viewing appeal. Again as a viewer were that to happen I think the limitless ad breaks would make it poor viewing


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2017)

fundy said:



			Plenty of older folk who watch on sky wont watch on youtube etc. My father fits 100% into this category and he wont be alone. If this group outnumbers the new viewers (at least initially) then the figure will be less
		
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I expect the PGA have decided that it is prepared to take a short term hit to try and get growth in the long term.  Also from a global perspective that I am sure the PGA are looking at this from, it might be the case that old folks who won't use social media in the Uk are a market they may be do not care a huge amount about, again in the long term.  They may be targeting those demographics that advertisers like as that is how social media companies make their money, not through subscription services.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Add in to that a lack of awareness for many of where it is, and most will assume it's simply not being screened, especially in older demographics. Ad in obtrusive (possibly) advertising from the youtube/FB platform and it isn't making for an ideal viewing spectacle.

The BBC won't touch it no matter how some still bang on about them. That ship has long sailed. I doubt if C4/5 would pick it up, especially as a one off as again it doesn't seem to fit their plans and seems doubtful they'd pool resource/cost into something with limited viewing appeal. *Again as a viewer were that to happen* I think the limitless ad breaks would make it poor viewing
		
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I somehow doubt that the PGA see Channel 5 as the future to be honest....


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			I expect the PGA have decided that it is prepared to take a short term hit to try and get growth in the long term.  Also from a global perspective that I am sure the PGA are looking at this from, it might be the case that old folks who won't use social media in the Uk are a market they may be do not care a huge amount about, again in the long term.
		
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gotta love the lets screw over our existing customers to chase those who dont actually really want to be customers strategy


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2017)

fundy said:



			gotta love the lets screw over our existing customers to chase those who dont actually really want to be customers strategy 

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I expect there will be some kind of transition period where highlights are still available on 'normal' TV for us old fogies. It seems to be all about different platforms now, not just relying on one exclusive one.


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			I expect there will be some kind of transition period where highlights are still available on 'normal' TV for us old fogies. It seems to be all about different platforms now, not just relying on one.
		
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I do get that, and those that are successful will be those who manage the transition from old tech to newer the best, and thus maintain their existing customer base whilst giving themselves the best chance to expand into newer or different areas and attract a newer audience alongside 

just a case of working out when to be short of sky's share price


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2017)

For me Sky having a monopoly on golf wasn't good for the game - it forced people that do want to watch the game to pay for it and it seems to me that many decided against paying for it irrelevant of any fancying graphics etc they added. So if PgA and the Masters are looking at that and are looking for ways to opening up the viewing to more people that for me should be applauded. If it's all online then I expect the viewing figures to be higher than right now but not at much as when it used to be on BBC. Hopefully one of the terrestrial channels will go for more golf and if there are adverts then that might be the price to pay for having golf on free to air mediums.


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## BTatHome (Jul 14, 2017)

Has anybody watched live sports on YouTube/Facebook/twitter? Everyone talking about it having more adverts but I've not actually seen any, so is there any substance to this?


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## jim8flog (Jul 14, 2017)

So the question comes -

When you used to watching your whatever it is from the comfort of your armchair 10-15 ft from the screen on a very big screen are you going to carry on watching when you hat to do it sat just 15 inches from a small screen or are you going to find something else to watch?

These days I hardly ever watch American golf live.  Far too few shots, too many ad breaks, to much repeated showing of the same shot, too much time watching the commentators booth. At least with some events Sky has been allowed to get it's own cameras and commentators used for some of the time.


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

jim8flog said:



			So the question comes -

When you used to watching your whatever it is from the comfort of your armchair 10-15 ft from the screen on a very big screen are you going to carry on watching when you hat to do it sat just 15 inches from a small screen or are you going to find something else to watch?

These days I hardly ever watch American golf live.  Far too few shots, too many ad breaks, to much repeated showing of the same shot, too much time watching the commentators booth. At least with some events Sky has been allowed to get it's own cameras and commentators used for some of the time.
		
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you can watch from the internet on your tv (albeit most of the older generation wont know how)


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## jim8flog (Jul 14, 2017)

fundy said:



			you can watch from the internet on your tv (albeit most of the older generation wont know how)
		
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I did not know my 15 year od Sony Trinitron CRT TV could get the internet


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

jim8flog said:



			I did not know my 15 year od Sony Trinitron CRT TV could get the internet

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haha  gl with that project


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## pendodave (Jul 14, 2017)

I watch YouTube on my pretty old sony telly via an app on my (cheap)  dvd player. Also works for now TV.


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## IainP (Jul 14, 2017)

Whenever there is a poll/discussion about the majors, the us pga regularly comes out 4th. Don't know if still the case but it always had the strongest field based on WR.

If their plan is to try to shift to the "most watched" major also, then that is an interesting proposition.


Will be interesting to read the coach's from Stateside.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

BTatHome said:



			Has anybody watched live sports on YouTube/Facebook/twitter? Everyone talking about it having more adverts but I've not actually seen any, so is there any substance to this?
		
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Depends on the event, some have simply taken the host broadcaster feed and you get what they show, ie, the recent boxing on twitter was the Sky feed.

Others are paid by advertising before and during the event either by ads before you can't fast forward or banners going top or bottom of screen.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me Sky having a monopoly on golf wasn't good for the game - it forced people that do want to watch the game to pay for it and it seems to me that many decided against paying for it irrelevant of any fancying graphics etc they added. So if PgA and the Masters are looking at that and are looking for ways to opening up the viewing to more people that for me should be applauded. If it's all online then I expect the viewing figures to be higher than right now but not at much as when it used to be on BBC. Hopefully one of the terrestrial channels will go for more golf and if there are adverts then that might be the price to pay for having golf on free to air mediums.
		
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As much as I agree with the sentiment, do you honestly think the PGA of America or The Masters people actually care if it's shown on a terrestial channel in the UK if it's available on all the other platforms as rumoured.


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## MrC (Jul 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			As much as I agree with the sentiment, do you honestly think the PGA of America or The Masters people actually care if it's shown on a terrestial channel in the UK if it's available on all the other platforms as rumoured.
		
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this.....

The UK market is just money to them so they will do what they think is right for their business model


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me Sky having a monopoly on golf wasn't good for the game - it forced people that do want to watch the game to pay for it and it seems to me that many decided against paying for it irrelevant of any fancying graphics etc they added. So if PgA and the Masters are looking at that and are looking for ways to opening up the viewing to more people that for me should be applauded. If it's all online then I expect the viewing figures to be higher than right now but not at much as when it used to be on BBC. Hopefully one of the terrestrial channels will go for more golf and if there are adverts then that might be the price to pay for having golf on free to air mediums.
		
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Why this BBC fixation. Their day is gone. It's a bygone generation. I really don't see how having it online is going to get these "massed" numbers. Most middle aged golfers will watch the channel because it's there but they aren't going to source it on a pad or PC or sit there watching it. That i'm afraid is an honest assessment and I really fail to see what the PGA hope to gain by this.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why this BBC fixation. Their day is gone. It's a bygone generation. I really don't see how having it online is going to get these "massed" numbers. Most middle aged golfers will watch the channel because it's there but they aren't going to source it on a pad or PC or sit there watching it. That i'm afraid is an honest assessment and I really fail to see what the PGA hope to gain by this.
		
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Maybe it's not about the middle aged golfers, maybe it's about the next generation and putting onto the platforms they use, FBook/Twitter/Youtube etc, expanding the game rather than chasing those they've already got.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe it's not about the middle aged golfers, maybe it's about the next generation and putting onto the platforms they use, FBook/Twitter/Youtube etc, expanding the game rather than chasing those they've already got.
		
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Agreed but really how many new and YOUNG golfers are they really going to generate? I don't accept that there are those out there that don't have Sky (courtesy of parents) already so how many others do you realistically think will benefit?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Agreed but really how many new and YOUNG golfers are they really going to generate? I don't accept that there are those out there that don't have Sky (courtesy of parents) already so how many others do you realistically think will benefit?
		
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Seriously! What about the rest of the world, the far east for example and the billions of kids stuck in front of computers.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Seriously! What about the rest of the world, the far east for example and the billions of kids stuck in front of computers.
		
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No idea but the thread is about Sky losing the PGA in the UK.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No idea but the thread is about Sky losing the PGA in the UK.
		
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No, it's about WHY Sky have not had their contract renewed by the PGA of America.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			No, it's about WHY Sky have not had their contract renewed by the PGA of America.
		
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I fear we're off on a tangent so I'll make this my last response. It's about Sky losing the contract in preference of social media providers for want of a better generic description. My argument is that a) the majority of viewers are going to be older than teenagers who want to hit a channel on the remote and watch and not look online, b) most teenagers watch golf on Sky because dad pays the fee and they probably wouldn't bother searching and watching it themselves c) if you are new to golf would you even know it was shown and where to look for it if it's not on a TV and d) its the PGA!!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I fear we're off on a tangent so I'll make this my last response. It's about Sky losing the contract in preference of social media providers for want of a better generic description. My argument is that a) the majority of viewers are going to be older than teenagers who want to hit a channel on the remote and watch and not look online, b) most teenagers watch golf on Sky because dad pays the fee and they probably wouldn't bother searching and watching it themselves c) if you are new to golf would you even know it was shown and where to look for it if it's not on a TV and d) its the PGA!!
		
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Not bothered if you respond, 95% of all UK households have a TV, only 30% have Sky, so backing up Phils point, terrestial TV opens up a wider audience.

Not sure if you use social media, it is full of adverts promoting all sorts of events and products, young people use social media, look at the hideous profits FBook make, if you wish to get a new product exposure these days it has more success being launched through social media.

It really helps if you read whole threads before jumping in to point score against other posters.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			It really helps if you read whole threads before jumping in to point score against other posters.
		
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Cheap but predictable shot. Goodnight


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cheap but predictable shot. Goodnight
		
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Not at all, if you'd of read the thread you probably wouldn't of made the post and made a worthwhile contribution.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 15, 2017)

fundy said:



			I do get that, and those that are successful will be those who manage the transition from old tech to newer the best, and thus maintain their existing customer base whilst giving themselves the best chance to expand into newer or different areas and attract a newer audience alongside 

*just a case of working out when to be short of sky's share price* 

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Well it genuinely has made me ever more determined to cancel sky sports.  I was slightly considering going to golf only but I think this is the thin end of the sand wedge.  Especially if they do not have the 1st 2 days of the masters confirmed as someone linked to.


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2017)

Telegraph reporting its gonna be back on the Beeb 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2017/07/18/golf-returns-bbc-deal-show-uspga-championship/


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## BTatHome (Jul 19, 2017)

Can't be right ... as their day is gone apparently 

Will be great to see .... and I have sky so no reason apart from better viewing figures.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

That must be wrong as everyone keeps telling me that BBC have no desire to show golf 

Looks like PGA aren't going to chase the money but instead show it to as many people as possible , hopefully the Masters next then US Open - would be brilliant


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 19, 2017)

Genuinely well played the PGA if this is the case.  Has the potential to make the R&A decision to throw their lot in with Sky look a bit foolish and out of date as well.  Still, not like the R&A to be a bit behind the times.....


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## smange (Jul 19, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



			Genuinely well played the PGA if this is the case.  Has the potential to make the R&A decision to throw their lot in with Sky look a bit foolish and out of date as well.  Still, not like the R&A to be a bit behind the times.....
		
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Have to say I agree, I mean all that fancy technology that Sky are using as well as having the actual players on hitting shots and us seeing their data on trackman is so outdated, let's get up to the times with the good old Beeb and futuristic things like the dinosaur that is Peter Alliss commentating while we have Ken Brown dropping rubber ducks into burns or even.....wait for it........rolling a ball across a green!! Wow can't wait for it!!

&#128580;


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## BrianM (Jul 19, 2017)

smange said:



			Have to say I agree, I mean all that fancy technology that Sky are using as well as having the actual players on hitting shots and us seeing their data on trackman is so outdated, let's get up to the times with the good old Beeb and futuristic things like the dinosaur that is Peter Alliss commentating while we have Ken Brown dropping rubber ducks into burns or even.....wait for it........rolling a ball across a green!! Wow can't wait for it!!

&#63044;
		
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This for me as well, the coverage so far on Sky for the Open has been superb.
Getting to see the best players in the world giving you tips and their thoughts on the course and how they hope to tackle the course.
Also Jon Rahm getting out of that pot bunker with a 4 iron, great stuff.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

smange said:



			Have to say I agree, I mean all that fancy technology that Sky are using as well as having the actual players on hitting shots and us seeing their data on trackman is so outdated, let's get up to the times with the good old Beeb and futuristic things like the dinosaur that is Peter Alliss commentating while we have Ken Brown dropping rubber ducks into burns or even.....wait for it........rolling a ball across a green!! Wow can't wait for it!!

&#128580;
		
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Is there any point after all the futuristic gadgets and shot stuff if hardly anyone is actually watching it ? The only people watching all that sky zone are people who have paid to watch the golf and already are golfers - not really helping grow the game 

Is it not better for golf for more people as possible to watch it ? Does that not give the sport a bit more of a chance of grabbing people who don't play golf


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## smange (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there any point after all the futuristic gadgets and shot stuff if hardly anyone is actually watching it ? The only people watching all that sky zone are people who have paid to watch the golf and already are golfers - not really helping grow the game 

Is it not better for golf for more people as possible to watch it ? Does that not give the sport a bit more of a chance of grabbing people who don't play golf
		
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Do you really believe that someone who isn't already into golf is going to get super excited about the sport and rush out to buy clubs and get a membership after tuning in to the BBC coverage and listen to a commentator that reminisces of such things like having a cup of tea with old Aggie one day sitting on the front lawn of some unheard of golf club whilst the extra features include things like dropping rubber ducks into a burn to show that a burn flows inland toward a golf course.

I seriously doubt it

We live in a technology dominated world nowadays and the only way to attract young new members is to embrace the technology and actually move with the times.

To call the R&A backwards and outdated for going to Sky and not remaining with the BBC is quite frankly an outrageous statement.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 19, 2017)

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the official announcement rather than speculate, in the past it's all been about the people in charge selling it to the highest bidder.

Of course it would be better, currently, if Golf was shown on any free to air terrestial channel has they currently have a larger share of the market.

We shouldn't also be making out the BBC is somehow a beacon for good as they gave up The Open a year early for no good reason.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

smange said:



			Do you really believe that someone who isn't already into golf is going to get super excited about the sport and rush out to buy clubs and get a membership after tuning in to the BBC coverage and listen to a commentator that reminisces of such things like having a cup of tea with old Aggie one day sitting on the front lawn of some unheard of golf club whilst the extra features include things like dropping rubber ducks into a burn to show that a burn flows inland toward a golf course.

I seriously doubt it

We live in a technology dominated world nowadays and the only way to attract young new members is to embrace the technology and actually move with the times.

To call the R&A backwards and outdated for going to Sky and not remaining with the BBC is quite frankly an outrageous statement.
		
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I didn't call the R&A backwards ? But I do believe the R&A made a step backwards by going for the Sky money 

And yes I do believe kids have more of a chance of finding the sport if they are able to sit and actually watch the program on telly - a drop in viewing figures of around 75% isn't good for any sport regardless of what fancy gadget is used. No point having the technology if it's stuck behind subscription services that the majority of the country don't have - don't believe the "only way to attract young people" is by using technology- why would a kid start playing golf because of a line following a ball ? Or because you can see Rahm hit it 300 yards with 1000 spin.


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## Robster59 (Jul 19, 2017)

Having The Open on the BBC is better for golf in my opinion.  The Open is this weekend but we don't have Sky at our club.  Too expensive for the number of people who watch it.  However, if it had been on BBC then people would more than  likely have stayed a little longer in the club, had something to eat, a couple of drinks, generate more revenue, etc.  But it's not, and wasn't last year.  The number of people watching The Open on TV has shrunk.  
It's like The Ashes in cricket.  People don't get as excited as it's not readily available.  The move by the R&A to hand Sky the rights was short sighted.  It should be on the protected lists of sporting events.  Certainly The Open and possibly The Ryder Cup should be Category A.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 19, 2017)

Robster59 said:



			Having The Open on the BBC is better for golf in my opinion.  The Open is this weekend but we don't have Sky at our club.  Too expensive for the number of people who watch it.  However, if it had been on BBC then people would more than  likely have stayed a little longer in the club, had something to eat, a couple of drinks, generate more revenue, etc.  But it's not, and wasn't last year.  The number of people watching The Open on TV has shrunk.  
It's like The Ashes in cricket.  People don't get as excited as it's not readily available.  The move by the R&A to hand Sky the rights was short sighted.  It should be on the protected lists of sporting events.  Certainly The Open and possibly The Ryder Cup should be Category A.
		
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I agree with the sentiment, but again, the reason it wasn't shown last year was because the BBC packed it in early, BBC have to take some responsibility, this should be Sky's first year and with Sky only having 30% of the market whatever they do they will have less viewers.

Totally agree it should be Cat A.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 19, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I agree with the sentiment, but again, the reason it wasn't shown last year was because the BBC packed it in early, BBC have to take some responsibility, this should be Sky's first year and with Sky only having 30% of the market whatever they do they will have less viewers.

Totally agree it should be Cat A.
		
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I totally agree that the BBC coverage was outdated and antiquated and they were architects of their own downfall in some way. In a way their coverage kind of reflected the image of the game and the image of the R&A, it was a self perpetuating circle of getting more and more out of touch and irrlevant to the general public.  I am hoping they will not be wheeling the same old people again and it looks like they have some new talent lined up http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...r-has-campaigned-get-women-golf-tv-colleague/



(and spoiler alert for some of you, she is a woman, I know PC gone mad, only got the job because she's a woman etc etc  )


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## Garush34 (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is there any point after all the futuristic gadgets and shot stuff if hardly anyone is actually watching it ? The only people watching all that sky zone are people who have paid to watch the golf and already are golfers - not really helping grow the game 

Is it not better for golf for more people as possible to watch it ? Does that not give the sport a bit more of a chance of grabbing people who don't play golf
		
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It would be better for more people to watch it if they do end up watching it, but surely the people that will tune in will just be golf fans that are not interested in paying for sky, not necessarily people that do not play the game already. 

Also in regards to the sky zone stuff etc. it is better than what we have had previous years the days leading up the the open which was nothing. At least sky are trying to give us different programming to watch, and if kids get interested in seeing Rahm in the bunker with a 4 iron and go out the next day and try it untill they can do it, then isn't that the point? Growing the game by getting youngsters playing and practicing more.


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## smange (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



_I didn't call the R&A backwards ? But I do believe the R&A made a step backwards by going for the Sky money _

And yes I do believe kids have more of a chance of finding the sport if they are able to sit and actually watch the program on telly - a drop in viewing figures of around 75% isn't good for any sport regardless of what fancy gadget is used. No point having the technology if it's stuck behind subscription services that the majority of the country don't have - don't believe the "only way to attract young people" is by using technology- why would a kid start playing golf because of a line following a ball ? Or because you can see Rahm hit it 300 yards with 1000 spin.
		
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I didn't say you did say that, my original post was in reply to someone else which if you read it properly you would have seen I quoted them in my post.

in my opinion the BBC coverage of golf (if any future coverage is in the same mould as their previous showings) only serves to enhance the belief that golf is an old mans game played by boring old people.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

Garush34 said:



			It would be better for more people to watch it if they do end up watching it, but surely the people that will tune in will just be golf fans that are not interested in paying for sky, not necessarily people that do not play the game already. 

Also in regards to the sky zone stuff etc. it is better than what we have had previous years the days leading up the the open which was nothing. At least sky are trying to give us different programming to watch, and if kids get interested in seeing Rahm in the bunker with a 4 iron and go out the next day and try it untill they can do it, then isn't that the point? Growing the game by getting youngsters playing and practicing more.
		
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Currently there only about 30% of households that have Sky in and I expect not all have sport - out of those people how many kids are going to get the chance to sit there and watch skyzone on the Open ? How are kids going to watch all these "innovations" when the chances are very slim they will get a chance to see it. If it was on terrestrial ( doesn't have to be BBC ) then I would expect the majority of kids have a telly in their room that picks up digital or terrestrial telly which imo gives them more chance to watch the sport being played. Last year was a thrilling finish to the Open - the sort of finish that could grab the attention of a youngster - how many non golfers watched it though ? For me the best chance for the sport to grow and be more inclusive to all is to not have it be exclusive to subscription viewers


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## Garush34 (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Currently there only about 30% of households that have Sky in and I expect not all have sport - out of those people how many kids are going to get the chance to sit there and watch skyzone on the Open ? How are kids going to watch all these "innovations" when the chances are very slim they will get a chance to see it. If it was on terrestrial ( doesn't have to be BBC ) then I would expect the majority of kids have a telly in their room that picks up digital or terrestrial telly which imo gives them more chance to watch the sport being played. Last year was a thrilling finish to the Open - the sort of finish that could grab the attention of a youngster - how many non golfers watched it though ? For me the best chance for the sport to grow and be more inclusive to all is to not have it be exclusive to subscription viewers
		
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But terrestrial channels are not going to give this much coverage to the Open. It will be the same as the BBC did just the main days and leave it at that and even then it will just be ducks in the burn etc. At least sky are bringing something different to the coverage, which is a good insight to how the players prepare and practice around the course. The innovations are what sky bring to the coverage which previously has been lacking in other years. 

As to last years finish, who knows how many youngsters watched, but has been said above, golf has been in decline for years even when the golf was on terrestrial TV, so clearly people aren't watching it either way.


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## IainP (Jul 19, 2017)

BBC good/BBC bad
SKY good/SKY bad

It is just like remain/leave
&#128530;&#128530;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

Garush34 said:



			But terrestrial channels are not going to give this much coverage to the Open. It will be the same as the BBC did just the main days and leave it at that and even then it will just be ducks in the burn etc. At least sky are bringing something different to the coverage, which is a good insight to how the players prepare and practice around the course. The innovations are what sky bring to the coverage which previously has been lacking in other years. 

As to last years finish, who knows how many youngsters watched, but has been said above, golf has been in decline for years even when the golf was on terrestrial TV, so clearly people aren't watching it either way.
		
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For 90plus percentage of sports fans etc they only care about the 4 days golf , that's when it matters - all the stuff before hand will be aimed towards golfers , people who are already into golf and even then how many really care about someone hitting up the range ? 

Competitive golf is all that matters to most as opposed to watching someone practise - only the real golf geeks will be interested in that 

All the "innovations" and insight etc from Sky are aimed at golfers already - how about aim something at Non golfers - do what BT sport do at times - make it free for two days for example.

Sky no doubt throw all the bells at it - it's shiney and bright and you can see they are throwing money at it but at the end of the day it's still just golf, guys walking around hitting the ball - BBC show that golf just as good for me and in fact better because I prefer their commentary team and without the adverts ( but that's all about personal opinion and there is no right answer) . 

I have no doubt the US PGA etc have seen how little people watch golf in the U.K. When it's on Sky and don't see that as a good thing , expect others to follow.


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## Region3 (Jul 19, 2017)

Has there been any announcement from the Beeb as to how much live golf they'll show?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

Region3 said:



			Has there been any announcement from the Beeb as to how much live golf they'll show?
		
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Only thing the articles say is for this year it will be on the red button until 10:30 due to the World Athletic Champs then on the main channel after that. Only other stuff is what's on Twitter and it's all four days of the Comp live using the US feed whenever that starts


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## fenwayrich (Jul 19, 2017)

I'm a Sky subscriber,  but this is good news. It's all very well having lots of modern technology, but it counts for nothing if nobody's watching.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 19, 2017)

If it's gone to the BBC I hope they take a long look at how they'll cover it and try to radically improve but I suspect that all it means is we'll see less golf with poorer coverage.


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## SAPCOR1 (Jul 19, 2017)

My kids all have TVs in their rooms with Sky. As they are smart TVs they can also watch Netflix, Amazon, YouTube etc on their TVs too.

Anytime I go into their rooms the TVs are off and they are watching YouTube on their phones or Netflix on their iPads (and vice versa)

At school most of the kids (according to mine) have VPNs on their phones to get around school wi-fi rules or watch the US version of Netflix.

Therefore it amuses me when I read posts that the kids will get into the game because it is on free to air TV or because Sky have vastly superior coverage and innovation (which they have)

I'm afraid we are all old fogies and we don't have a clue


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 20, 2017)

The irony is that actually 72 hole stroke play golf is mostly dull as ditch water to watch whatever channel it is on. You need to get the Ryder Cup on terrestrial, that will draw a few people in. Or televise those tournaments where they are trying something a little different on terrestrial


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2017)

Hacker Khan said:



*The irony is that actually 72 hole stroke play golf is mostly dull as ditch water to watch* whatever channel it is on. You need to get the Ryder Cup on terrestrial, that will draw a few people in. Or televise those tournaments where they are trying something a little different on terrestrial
		
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Yet over 5 million watch it when its on BBC - guess it cant be that dull for those millions who watch it. I suspect there are a hell of a lot of people who will sit there and watch all of it and not find it dull in the slightest and also expect a great deal more will watch those 72 holes as opposed to the "fancy tournaments" the freaky canadian is trying to force through


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 20, 2017)

SAPCOR1 said:



			My kids all have TVs in their rooms with Sky. As they are smart TVs they can also watch Netflix, Amazon, YouTube etc on their TVs too.

Anytime I go into their rooms the TVs are off and they are watching YouTube on their phones or Netflix on their iPads (and vice versa)

At school most of the kids (according to mine) have VPNs on their phones to get around school wi-fi rules or watch the US version of Netflix.

Therefore it amuses me when I read posts that the kids will get into the game because it is on free to air TV or because Sky have vastly superior coverage and innovation (which they have)

I'm afraid we are all old fogies and we don't have a clue
		
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This is so true



Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet over 5 million watch it when its on BBC - guess it cant be that dull for those millions who watch it. I suspect there are a hell of a lot of people who will sit there and watch all of it and not find it dull in the slightest and also expect a great deal more will watch those 72 holes as opposed to the "fancy tournaments" the freaky canadian is trying to force through
		
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But once again it is appealing to those already converted. The "freaky Canadian" is trying to appeal to everyone else. He is trying to grow the game whilst also trying to satisfy the hardcore.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 20, 2017)

I'm sure this old debate as been done once or twice on here before &#129300;


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## TheJezster (Jul 20, 2017)

Those who don't have sky and want to watch will just stream it.  People will find a way


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 20, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			If it's gone to the BBC I hope they take a long look at how they'll cover it and try to radically improve but I suspect that all it means is we'll see less golf with poorer coverage.
		
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Sadly it'll be a rehash of all their previous coverage. Can't see them doing anything different and they are too stuck in their ways. That applies to their coverage of most of the live sport they show (not that much these days)


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## Crow (Jul 20, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sadly it'll be a rehash of all their previous coverage. Can't see them doing anything different and they are too stuck in their ways. That applies to their coverage of most of the live sport they show (not that much these days)
		
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Hurrah!

I'm happy with the BBC's coverage, I don't need a load of gimmicks to make the sport entertaining.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2017)

Crow said:



			Hurrah!

I'm happy with the BBC's coverage, I don't need a load of gimmicks to make the sport entertaining.
		
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:thup:

The sport itself is then entertainment for me


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## palindromicbob (Jul 20, 2017)

Four words. 

Ken on the course.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 20, 2017)

Crow said:



			Hurrah!

I'm happy with the BBC's coverage, I don't need a load of gimmicks to make the sport entertaining.
		
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Which is fine. Personally I find it outdated, the comments of Alliss antiquated and out of touch, there graphics bland, and the co-commentators very poor. Give me Harmon, Boxall, Radar etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 20, 2017)

palindromicbob said:



			Four words. 

Ken on the course.
		
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Just brilliant with Beef in the bunker - :rofl:

Liking the new presenter as well - a nice manner about her


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## Region3 (Jul 20, 2017)

palindromicbob said:



			Four words. 

Ken on the course.
		
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Hopefully the American station he's working for won't let him out of his contract.


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## JohnnyDee (Jul 20, 2017)

Haven't read the whole 10 pages but is this correct? If so, and even as a Sky subscriber I am delighted by this news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2017/07/18/golf-returns-bbc-deal-show-uspga-championship/


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## Sweep (Jul 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have they "pulled out " or did Sky outbid the by offering more money. BBC still show the sat and Sunday live so obviously still want to show the Masters when they can
		
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The BBC pulled out of the Open a year earlier than they had to which says a lot.


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## Sweep (Jul 20, 2017)

Right now it makes sense for the PGA to sell the Championship to either the highest bidder or the widest audience. As the least important of the 4 majors they would be playing with fire to go solely on streaming sites at present.
I can see them wanting to grow the game and reach the biggest audience but on the other hand you can't question Sky's commitment to golf, especially with its new Sky Golf channel.
As a golf event, you could argue that the PGA Championship isn't in the top half dozen most important or exciting tournaments, especially if it's a Ryder Cup year.


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## Crow (Jul 20, 2017)

Sweep said:



			Right now it makes sense for the PGA to sell the Championship to either the highest bidder or the widest audience. As the least important of the 4 majors they would be playing with fire to go solely on streaming sites at present.
I can see them wanting to grow the game and reach the biggest audience but on the other hand you can't question Sky's commitment to golf, especially with its new Sky Golf channel.
*As a golf event, you could argue that the PGA Championship isn't in the top half dozen most important or exciting tournaments, especially if it's a Ryder Cup year.*

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But in one swoop it's become the most important, purely by being on free to view. Power to their elbows!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2017)

Sweep said:



			Right now it makes sense for the PGA to sell the Championship to either the highest bidder or the widest audience. As the least important of the 4 majors they would be playing with fire to go solely on streaming sites at present.
I can see them wanting to grow the game and reach the biggest audience but on the other hand you can't question Sky's commitment to golf, especially with its new Sky Golf channel.
As a golf event, you could argue that the PGA Championship isn't in the top half dozen most important or exciting tournaments, especially if it's a Ryder Cup year.
		
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Sky already had a channel that just showed Golf - it was called Sky Sports 4 , all they have done now is call it something different, put new graphics on and call it dedicated - they did stop the vt saying with all the major golf comps on one channel though. "Commitment" to golf - how about they show real commitment and allow the Open on Sunday for example to be free to non subscribers? It would certainly help the poor viewing figures which are going to get worse now that people don't have to buy the full sports package and can do without the "dedicated" golf channel ( without one major and possibly a second ) 

As for the US PGA - whilst it doesn't have the history or prestige of the other three it does though have the strongest field in all the majors and has produced some cracking finishes just like they all have - to suggest it isn't in the top 6 most important comps is laughable - would suggest that the players would think you're talking out of your rear. But I reckon it just bitterness because Sky are loosing it to what looks like the BBC and it will become the most watched major/golf comp now


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sky already had a channel that just showed Golf - it was called Sky Sports 4 , all they have done now is call it something different, put new graphics on and call it dedicated - they did stop the vt saying with all the major golf comps on one channel though. "Commitment" to golf - how about they show real commitment and allow the Open on Sunday for example to be free to non subscribers? It would certainly help the poor viewing figures which are going to get worse now that people don't have to buy the full sports package and can do without the "dedicated" golf channel ( without one major and possibly a second ) 

As for the US PGA - whilst it doesn't have the history or prestige of the other three it does though have the strongest field in all the majors and has produced some cracking finishes just like they all have - to suggest it isn't in the top 6 most important comps is laughable - would suggest that the players would think you're talking out of your rear. But I reckon it just bitterness because Sky are loosing it to what looks like the BBC and it will become the most watched major/golf comp now
		
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I think you should take a step back from your anti-Sky views and try to look a bit more dispassionately rather than finding fault with everything. The dedicated golf channel is an interesting idea but will depend on what sort of content they have (SS4 showed a lot of golf but was by no means exclusive) far too early for anyone to know if it'll be a success or not. 

You really can't dismiss their commitment to golf - they show 1000s of hours more live golf every year than any other broadcaster in this country ever did - Majors, Ryder/Solheim cups, PGA Tour, ET Tour, LPGA, LET, EuroPro, hell even the Trilby Tour (yes the dedicated sport channel allows them to do that when the BBC obviously couldn't but it's still hugely significant). They were instrumental in re-establishing the British Masters, it simply wouldn't happen without their sponsorship and they provide 1000s of free tickets and make it into a real event with the level of coverage.

They are obviously paying a lot of money to cover the Open so of course they're not going to make the final day free. But, from what I read on here, anyone with a Now TV box could get yesterday's coverage for free.

The actual coverage seems a more subjective matter and I understand that some people don't like change but I think they've really modernised it, brought some good innovations in and, with the exception of the adverts obviously, I think it is head and shoulders better than the tired coverage the BBC were churning out year after year. As far as presenters and commentary team goes it's all about opinions but, in reality, it's all much of a muchness - some better than others on both channels.  

Beyond the golf coverage, I really like the BBC so If they are getting the PGA I hope they are taking a long look at how they cover golf and try to improve it. However, I suspect they will show less golf with poorer coverage than we'd get with Sky. Time will tell.


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## TheJezster (Jul 21, 2017)

Superb response.  Conveys all my views too, can't really add anything else... &#128514;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think you should take a step back from your anti-Sky views and try to look a bit more dispassionately rather than finding fault with everything. The dedicated golf channel is an interesting idea but will depend on what sort of content they have (SS4 showed a lot of golf but was by no means exclusive) far too early for anyone to know if it'll be a success or not.
		
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Will they show any more actual live golf on this channel ? The content will be no different - just repeated , i expect there will be no difference from what it was as SS4 , when they got the Open they even stated then that SS4 would be the dedicated Golf Channel. And its a bit of kick really when they lose one of the majors.

I also believe spliting the sports into seperate channels will have an even further negative affect when it comes to viewing figures - Skys big flag ship is the football - how many will bin off the other channels and just go to football ? suspect quite a few 




			You really can't dismiss their commitment to golf - they show 1000s of hours more live golf every year than any other broadcaster in this country ever did - Majors, Ryder/Solheim cups, PGA Tour, ET Tour, LPGA, LET, EuroPro, hell even the Trilby Tour (yes the dedicated sport channel allows them to do that when the BBC obviously couldn't but it's still hugely significant). They were instrumental in re-establishing the British Masters, it simply wouldn't happen without their sponsorship and they provide 1000s of free tickets and make it into a real event with the level of coverage.
		
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As you say they are able to show as much as they want because they have that many channels - no other broadcaster can do that because they have to cater for everyone - if the BBC or indeed any other broadcaster could show non stop golf or indeed any other sport then im sure they would. And that commitment comes at a cost to the viewer - and Sky will be doing it for profit.



			They are obviously paying a lot of money to cover the Open so of course they're not going to make the final day free. But, from what I read on here, anyone with a Now TV box could get yesterday's coverage for free.

The actual coverage seems a more subjective matter and I understand that some people don't like change but I think they've really modernised it, brought some good innovations in and, with the exception of the adverts obviously, I think it is head and shoulders better than the tired coverage the BBC were churning out year after year. As far as presenters and commentary team goes it's all about opinions but, in reality, it's all much of a muchness - some better than others on both channels.  

Beyond the golf coverage, I really like the BBC so If they are getting the PGA I hope they are taking a long look at how they cover golf and try to improve it. However, I suspect they will show less golf with poorer coverage than we'd get with Sky. Time will tell.
		
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Ultimately though it all comes at a cost - people have to subscribe to sky or use their Now TV boxes and pay to watch it - for me no matter what happens in regards any gimmicks etc that will always be the biggest negative they will trump it all - you have to pay to watch golf. Whilst the coverage will always be subjective and about personal opinions at least with the BBC it was free to air with the telly license - yes it may not be 24 hours a day but then they cant but it was free and it was available to all and the level of viewing figures showed that. Golf on Sky whilst it maybe shining for people who like that wont imo help grow the game. 

Right now if someone wants to watch live golf on telly they have to pay for it - that for me is a bad thing for our sport so for me the PGA going to BBC is great for Golf - it will allow millions who dont have sky to ability to watch one of the biggest comps in the game and i for one hope the other majors follow suit over the coming years and realise that Sky isnt the golden pot after all due to the lack of viewers.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 21, 2017)

Ach I tried, but your mind is closed.


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## Reemul (Jul 21, 2017)

The days of getting unlimited coverage for free of specific sports or the major events within that sport are long gone.

What amazes me is you get people complaining about spending Â£40 a month for sky sports but think nothing of spending the same on a mobile phone each month or paying Â£2.50 a day for a coffee.

It's like paying for coverage is a dirty word and everything should be free but don't mind me while I pee my money up the wall for other things. A guy I work with just spent Â£800 on a phone that was 1 upgrade from the last but was saying he won't pay for sky/virgin yet that would have paid for 2 years of subscription.

I understand some people want all major sport events on free to air tv for Â£12 a month as well as everything else they have to show but it ain't happening.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2017)

Sorry but why can't sports be on free to air television ? They survived pretty well before Sky arrived - in fact I would say sport was healthy all round before Sky arrived and it wasn't money driven


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## smange (Jul 21, 2017)

The BBC have shown live golf for decades up until last year when they chose to drop the Open a year early, yet you want to blame Sky for the fall in numbers of people taking up the game? You keep quoting us all these viewing figures of how few can watch on Sky compared to the many more millions who watch on the BBC, that's only been the case for a year yet the numbers of people taking up the game in the last 20 years has dropped dramatically and most of that during a time when most of the big events were exclusive to the BBC so maybe just maybe the good old Beeb should shoulder some of the blame then going by your rationale but hey ho don't let the facts get in the way of your arguement, again &#128580;

It's always going to be personal choice over what channels presentation you prefer but to try to lay a big part of the blame in numbers of people taking up the game at Sky's feet is ridiculous when they have only had one year of having exclusive coverage.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Will they show any more actual live golf on this channel ? The content will be no different - just repeated , i expect there will be no difference from what it was as SS4 , when they got the Open they even stated then that SS4 would be the dedicated Golf Channel. And its a bit of kick really when they lose one of the majors.

I also believe spliting the sports into seperate channels will have an even further negative affect when it comes to viewing figures - Skys big flag ship is the football - how many will bin off the other channels and just go to football ? suspect quite a few 



As you say they are able to show as much as they want because they have that many channels - no other broadcaster can do that because they have to cater for everyone - if the BBC or indeed any other broadcaster could show non stop golf or indeed any other sport then im sure they would. And that commitment comes at a cost to the viewer - and Sky will be doing it for profit.


Ultimately though it all comes at a cost - people have to subscribe to sky or use their Now TV boxes and pay to watch it - for me no matter what happens in regards any gimmicks etc that will always be the biggest negative they will trump it all - you have to pay to watch golf. Whilst the coverage will always be subjective and about personal opinions at least with the BBC it was free to air with the telly license - yes it may not be 24 hours a day but then they cant but it was free and it was available to all and the level of viewing figures showed that. Golf on Sky whilst it maybe shining for people who like that wont imo help grow the game. 

Right now if someone wants to watch live golf on telly they have to pay for it - that for me is a bad thing for our sport so for me the PGA going to BBC is great for Golf - it will allow millions who dont have sky to ability to watch one of the biggest comps in the game and i for one hope the other majors follow suit over the coming years and realise that Sky isnt the golden pot after all due to the lack of viewers.
		
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Do you honestly believe that many none golfers will watch the Open regardless of if it's free to view. 
And they will then take up the game? 
Phil you are deluded & your loving for everything BBC & anti Sky views got very tiresome along time ago. 
Do you really need to keep making the same points over & over again??


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## Beezerk (Jul 21, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ach I tried, but your mind is closed.
		
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Pmsl, reply of the year.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 21, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ach I tried, but your mind is closed.
		
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And he's stated on here he's a SKY Subscriber


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but why can't sports be on free to air television ? They survived pretty well before Sky arrived - in fact I would say sport was healthy all round before Sky arrived and it wasn't money driven
		
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The world has moved on, the broadcasting and sports business models have moved on. That horse has bolted and like many parts of life you can't just roll the clock back.


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## Junior (Jul 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but why can't sports be on free to air television ? They survived pretty well before Sky arrived - in fact I would say sport was healthy all round before Sky arrived and it wasn't money driven
		
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Because the sporting governing bodies (FA, ECB, R&A, F1) choose so.   Essentially, Sky and the BBC are only buying what is up for sale.    If you had a company and had a product like the open, or EPL, and could give viewing rights away for next to nothing, or, could make millions by selling it to the highest bidder what would you do ?


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## Garush34 (Jul 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but why can't sports be on free to air television ? They survived pretty well before Sky arrived - in fact I would say sport was healthy all round before Sky arrived and it wasn't money driven
		
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Is it not the case that before sky came along there were less channels to choose from. So people watched bevause it was the best of the bad choices at the time, not just because it was free.


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## TheJezster (Jul 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but why can't sports be on free to air television ? They survived pretty well before Sky arrived - in fact I would say sport was healthy all round before Sky arrived and it wasn't money driven
		
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Times change,  things evolve and people have more choices.  There isn't an argument that sky haven't improved things.  I say things change,  i obviously didn't mean your mind.  I think FD summed that one up perfectly..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 21, 2017)

Junior said:



			Because the sporting governing bodies (FA, ECB, R&A, F1) choose so.   Essentially, Sky and the BBC are only buying what is up for sale.    If you had a company and had a product like the open, or EPL, and could give viewing rights away for next to nothing, or, could make millions by selling it to the highest bidder what would you do ?
		
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Oh I agree it's down to the governing bodies - they see the money and they would be daft to turn it down. It's a business all round now - the money the better for some. Sky for me have take football to being a money driven sport to imo the detriment of the sport. Football now is all about the money - is that a good thing ? Not for me and I expect less now care about the sport because of the money. F1 is the same , Cricket going there , Golf going there.

In one way we can now watch more sport than ever before - as a sports fan that is superb but for me i don't think it's good for any sport - someone somewhere is getting richer from the move to subscription sport and that's coming from the pocket of the viewer - in a business sense that's perfectly acceptable , people pay for a product and they get it but for me i don't think that should be in sport. Sport and it's viewing should be accessible to as many people as is physical possible - and the governing bodies should look first and foremost towards the accessibility for everyone to that sport both playing and viewing and also the government should look at it as well - they have the power to protect the viewing of sports. 

The drop is participation in sports is down to the advent of game consoles and in some sports the lack of facilities available and also the lack of exposure to sports - I remember growing up watching all manner of sports with my dad on Grandstand , or World of Sport and they grabbing my attention - when Wimbledon came we went out and played tennis , when the Open came we played golf , same with football etc - maybe it was because we had less choice of what we would watch and now we have so much choice but at a price to us. 

Whilst subscription Telly has given more choice it has also narrowed down the captive market - so is it a good thing for sport there is more choice to watch - yep but is it balanced out by having so little people be exposed to it. Thankfully certain sports still reach all corners because of their protective status - maybe more should be again ?


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## anotherdouble (Jul 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but why can't sports be on free to air television ? They survived pretty well before Sky arrived - in fact I would say sport was healthy all round before Sky arrived and it wasn't money driven
		
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Let's hope they show the premier league free. Think of the viewing figures that would bring in but some how I don't think they will


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## moogie (Jul 21, 2017)

There's some right pish wrote on here
How much coverage did golf used to get on terrestrial TV then??
Take away majors ,  or the old benson & hedges or whatever it was,  then I'd say next to zilch

Sky has brought golf and golf coverage to a different level
It's been great for the game
( unlike what has happened to football )
To get European tour and us tour events every week is fantastic 

If you want it
Pay for it
If you don't
Just shut up and don't whinge
It ain't coming back to the BBC anytime soon
They've no interest


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## GB72 (Jul 21, 2017)

I think some of the views on here are pretty short sighted if you want plenty of golf on TV. You get the amount of golf thst is currently on Sky because they can show the crown Jewel events that attract subscribers. You take away tbe big events and there will be little benefit to Sky in showing the week in week out events. Pretty much the same with any sport, take away the tests and there is no incentive to cover county cricket, ditch the premiership and there is no incentive to show lower league football. So which is better, pretty much every event live on Sky or a couple of events on BBC. 

This is coming from someobe who does not have Sky Sports.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 21, 2017)

Good move if this goes to bbc.. the most boring major of the 4 and would boost interest if it's free to air 

Win win


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 21, 2017)

GB72 said:



			I think some of the views on here are pretty short sighted if you want plenty of golf on TV. You get the amount of golf thst is currently on Sky because they can show the crown Jewel events that attract subscribers. You take away tbe big events and there will be little benefit to Sky in showing the week in week out events. Pretty much the same with any sport, take away the tests and there is no incentive to cover county cricket, ditch the premiership and there is no incentive to show lower league football. *So which is better, pretty much every event live on Sky or a couple of events on BBC*. 

This is coming from someobe who does not have Sky Sports.
		
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Weirdly enough I suspect I used to watch just as much live golf when I was growing up on the BBC as I do now, even though I have Sky Sports. I just don't have the time or inclination to watch yet another 72 hole stroke play tournament on some pretty non descript US courses week in week out or a sparsely attended European event.  But other views are available. Quality not quantity for me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 21, 2017)

moogie said:



			There's some right pish wrote on here
How much coverage did golf used to get on terrestrial TV then??
Take away majors ,  or the old benson & hedges or whatever it was,  then I'd say next to zilch

Sky has brought golf and golf coverage to a different level
It's been great for the game
( unlike what has happened to football )
To get European tour and us tour events every week is fantastic 

If you want it
Pay for it
If you don't
Just shut up and don't whinge
It ain't coming back to the BBC anytime soon
They've no interest
		
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Totally agree except it's going to the BBC for the USPGA. Expect snoring Alliss and Brown rolling balls, hitting putts and other jaded coverage. Give me the modern way Sky are doing it and the graphics and coverage. Far superior and I would love to see some figures about take up of the game on the BBC mediocre coverage v Sky coverage.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 22, 2017)

moogie said:



			There's some right pish wrote on here
		
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Yep... Without Tiger [in his pomp] it matters not a jot who's broadcasting it...

It's gonna be a boring watch...

They key talking point today being Kevs trousers... Riveting!


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## Sweep (Jul 23, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think you should take a step back from your anti-Sky views and try to look a bit more dispassionately rather than finding fault with everything. The dedicated golf channel is an interesting idea but will depend on what sort of content they have (SS4 showed a lot of golf but was by no means exclusive) far too early for anyone to know if it'll be a success or not. 

You really can't dismiss their commitment to golf - they show 1000s of hours more live golf every year than any other broadcaster in this country ever did - Majors, Ryder/Solheim cups, PGA Tour, ET Tour, LPGA, LET, EuroPro, hell even the Trilby Tour (yes the dedicated sport channel allows them to do that when the BBC obviously couldn't but it's still hugely significant). They were instrumental in re-establishing the British Masters, it simply wouldn't happen without their sponsorship and they provide 1000s of free tickets and make it into a real event with the level of coverage.

They are obviously paying a lot of money to cover the Open so of course they're not going to make the final day free. But, from what I read on here, anyone with a Now TV box could get yesterday's coverage for free.

The actual coverage seems a more subjective matter and I understand that some people don't like change but I think they've really modernised it, brought some good innovations in and, with the exception of the adverts obviously, I think it is head and shoulders better than the tired coverage the BBC were churning out year after year. As far as presenters and commentary team goes it's all about opinions but, in reality, it's all much of a muchness - some better than others on both channels.  

Beyond the golf coverage, I really like the BBC so If they are getting the PGA I hope they are taking a long look at how they cover golf and try to improve it. However, I suspect they will show less golf with poorer coverage than we'd get with Sky. Time will tell.
		
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What she said.


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## Sweep (Jul 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sky already had a channel that just showed Golf - it was called Sky Sports 4 , all they have done now is call it something different, put new graphics on and call it dedicated - they did stop the vt saying with all the major golf comps on one channel though. "Commitment" to golf - how about they show real commitment and allow the Open on Sunday for example to be free to non subscribers? It would certainly help the poor viewing figures which are going to get worse now that people don't have to buy the full sports package and can do without the "dedicated" golf channel ( without one major and possibly a second ) 

As for the US PGA - whilst it doesn't have the history or prestige of the other three it does though have the strongest field in all the majors and has produced some cracking finishes just like they all have - to suggest it isn't in the top 6 most important comps is laughable - would suggest that the players would think you're talking out of your rear. But I reckon it just bitterness because Sky are loosing it to what looks like the BBC and it will become the most watched major/golf comp now
		
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It isn't what the players think that's important. It's what the paying golf fans think, even if those thoughts come out of their rear. I would put the PGA Championship behind the Ryder Cup, The Open, the Masters, the US Open, the Players and possibly even the FedEx Cup. That's not to say it isn't a great tournament, just not in the class of the others.
Why would I be bitter about Sky losing it and it going to the BBC? I get BBC as well. I have no choice. It's free apparently. 
If you really think Sky should pay God knows how much for exclusive rights to show live coverage of the Open and then let non subscribers have the climax for free, you really don't understand business. Perhaps you have forgotten who Sky pay all this money to and how that cash is used to grow the game.


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## Sweep (Jul 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Will they show any more actual live golf on this channel ? The content will be no different - just repeated , i expect there will be no difference from what it was as SS4
		
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They say they are going to have content like instruction, news, interviews etc. We will see. Personally I really enjoyed the Golf Channel when we could get it here and if it's anything like that model (with less adverts) it will be great.
Lets be honest. No-one else is going to have a dedicated Channel for golf in the U.K. so I don't understand why we should be having a downer on Sky for doing so. In fact it's actually quite a bizarre opinion to be expressed on a golf forum.
I would also add that if you want to engage kids in golf you really need to show the fun side of the game. Sky do try with this, with golf and other sports. Di Stewart hosts a program aimed at kids. I have seen lots of kids asking questions of the stars during Open Zone this week. They also make great efforts with female participation with their Sportswomen initiative. I do understand why the BBC can't do this but the fact is Sky do.


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## DCB (Jul 23, 2017)

moogie said:



			There's some right pish wrote on here
How much coverage did golf used to get on terrestrial TV then??
Take away majors ,  or the old benson & hedges or whatever it was,  then I'd say next to zilch

Sky has brought golf and golf coverage to a different level
It's been great for the game
( unlike what has happened to football )
To get European tour and us tour events every week is fantastic 

If you want it
Pay for it
If you don't
Just shut up and don't whinge
It ain't coming back to the BBC anytime soon
They've no interest
		
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Great post. The BBC have no interest in showing any live sport unless it's from Wimbledon or Davis Cup tennis when GB are doing well. Golf was never high on the list of live coverage other than three or maybe four events in the year. We've been fortunate to live through an era when live coverage was excellent and the top players of that era made live golf a truly great event to watch. Hopefully golf can survive into a new era as new superstars take centre stage and the old guard pass into the history books. One thing is for sure, if it gets air time, people will still watch, whatever is on offer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2017)

Sweep said:



			It isn't what the players think that's important. It's what the paying golf fans think, even if those thoughts come out of their rear. I would put the PGA Championship behind the Ryder Cup, The Open, the Masters, the US Open, the Players and possibly even the FedEx Cup. That's not to say it isn't a great tournament, just not in the class of the others.
Why would I be bitter about Sky losing it and it going to the BBC? I get BBC as well. I have no choice. It's free apparently. 
If you really think Sky should pay God knows how much for exclusive rights to show live coverage of the Open and then let non subscribers have the climax for free, you really don't understand business. Perhaps you have forgotten who Sky pay all this money to and how that cash is used to grow the game.
		
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Sorry but the US PGA is a major - it's the one major that is open to everyone and always has the biggest widest open field - to suggest it behind the Players and the Fed Ex is laughable - especially when both of those are only open to US PGA Tour members and not to players who are members of ET , Asia Tour etc. Yes it hasn't got the prestige of the other three majors but it's still a major and one the every single player would love to win. Can't compare the Ryder Cup to the majors as they are totally different events. 

As for showing things for free - BT sports pay through the nose for Prem League and CL as well as for Rugby events - every now and then they allow it to be watched by people who don't subscribe to BT sports - for free.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but the US PGA is a major - it's the one major that is open to everyone and always has the biggest widest open field - to suggest it behind the Players and the Fed Ex is laughable - especially when both of those are only open to US PGA Tour members and not to players who are members of ET , Asia Tour etc. Yes it hasn't got the prestige of the other three majors but it's still a major and one the every single player would love to win. Can't compare the Ryder Cup to the majors as they are totally different events. 

*As for showing things for free - BT sports pay through the nose for Prem League and CL as well as for Rugby events - every now and then they allow it to be watched by people who don't subscribe to BT sports - for free*.
		
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Sky will occasionally show a game or two on sky 1 free to view for anyone with noraml sky.

From what I've seen of BT, they show the finals free, which they are obligated to do. Haven't seen any other games free with football at least.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2017)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...ns-league-football-need-know-new-bt-deal/amp/


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Sky will occasionally show a game or two on sky 1 free to view for anyone with noraml sky.

From what I've seen of BT, they show the finals free, which they are obligated to do. Haven't seen any other games free with football at least.
		
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Every now and then they have a free weekend or free day where either the sat or Sunday is just free for all so can watch any event that is on that day for free as well as the CL games they show


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## Papas1982 (Jul 23, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every now and then they have a free weekend or free day where either the sat or Sunday is just free for all so can watch any event that is on that day for free as well as the CL games they show
		
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I have seen them show rugby. Never a premier league game.

Considering the football is what drives the price up. I'd be surprised if they show any game for free that they don't have too.

This is off track though.

I think that the pga championship is probably the least anticipated (by the fans), will be interesting to see how bbc are allowed to show it. If they have to use a suppliers feed i cant see it being any better/worse than skys.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 23, 2017)

Sweep said:



			They say they are going to have content like instruction, news, interviews etc. We will see. Personally I really enjoyed the Golf Channel when we could get it here and if it's anything like that model (with less adverts) it will be great.
Lets be honest. No-one else is going to have a dedicated Channel for golf in the U.K. so I don't understand why we should be having a downer on Sky for doing so. In fact it's actually quite a bizarre opinion to be expressed on a golf forum.
I would also add that if you want to engage kids in golf you really need to show the fun side of the game. Sky do try with this, with golf and other sports. Di Stewart hosts a program aimed at kids. I have seen lots of kids asking questions of the stars during Open Zone this week. They also make great efforts with female participation with their Sportswomen initiative. I do understand why the BBC can't do this but the fact is Sky do.
		
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:thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 23, 2017)

Sweep said:



			They say they are going to have content like instruction, news, interviews etc. We will see. Personally I really enjoyed the Golf Channel when we could get it here and if it's anything like that model (with less adverts) it will be great.
Lets be honest. No-one else is going to have a dedicated Channel for golf in the U.K. so I don't understand why we should be having a downer on Sky for doing so. In fact it's actually quite a bizarre opinion to be expressed on a golf forum.
I would also add that if you want to engage kids in golf you really need to show the fun side of the game. Sky do try with this, with golf and other sports. Di Stewart hosts a program aimed at kids. I have seen lots of kids asking questions of the stars during Open Zone this week. They also make great efforts with female participation with their Sportswomen initiative. I do understand why the BBC can't do this but the fact is Sky do.
		
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Well said. While the Golf Channel was primarily US fed, it still had some good stuff and if Sky are doing it you'd hope there would be stuff that's more relevant to a UK viewer. As you say we'll wait and see. I agree with everything FD and you said. It's a fact that with interactive TV and ways to watch coverage only going to get better then more kids will get to see golf anyway, but it has to be interesting to get their attention and this is what differs between the Sky and BBC coverage


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## palindromicbob (Jul 23, 2017)

I wonder what would happen if Sky showed Saturdays for free and advertised the one day pass for NOW TV regularly thorough the broadcast.


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## guest100718 (Jul 23, 2017)

the sky golf was a bit mnf in places but other than that it seemed pretty much same as BBC
 except with some annoying bloke reporting from the course.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 24, 2017)

At least we won't have to listen to Darren Clarke again. Did you know he had won The Open? That was painful yesterday.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At least we won't have to listen to Darren Clarke again. Did you know he had won The Open? That was painful yesterday.
		
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yeah but he doesn't to talk about it.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 24, 2017)

Darren Clarke is terrible. Another example of jobs for the boys.


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## Sweep (Jul 11, 2018)

Seemingly the BBC didnâ€™t rate showing the US PGA last year as a great success or in any rate are not showing it again this year. Neither are Sky.
Dies this mean their tiff with Sky resulted in the USPGA shooting themselves in the foot? Or will this herald a new partner in golf broadcasting like BT? Maybe the age of streaming live golf as the norm has dawned?
Or... as practically every other golf event from the Open to the Trilby Tour is now broadcast, can the US PGA still be considered a major when itâ€™s the only comp not on our screens?
https://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/bbc-and-sky-will-not-be-airing-us-pga


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## Garush34 (Jul 11, 2018)

Sweep said:



			Seemingly the BBC didnâ€™t rate showing the US PGA last year as a great success or in any rate are not showing it again this year. Neither are Sky.
Dies this mean their tiff with Sky resulted in the USPGA shooting themselves in the foot? Or will this herald a new partner in golf broadcasting like BT? Maybe the age of streaming live golf as the norm has dawned?
Or... as practically every other golf event from the Open to the Trilby Tour is now broadcast, can the US PGA still be considered a major when itâ€™s the only comp not on our screens?
https://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/bbc-and-sky-will-not-be-airing-us-pga

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I see that Facebook has got in on the act, showing some early round coverage on weekends for some PGA tour events. Looks like this could be the way forward, but it will soon get to the point where coverage is spread across too many platforms that viewing numbers will decrease.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 11, 2018)

Iâ€™m sure some will see it as a good thing 

Those determined to watch it will probably end up seeing it via dodgy sites and streams, especially if goes on to a ppv site.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 11, 2018)

hmm they have all these departments to stop one company having a monopoly .. who would have thought the end user would end up worse off...

typical rip off


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## r0wly86 (Jul 12, 2018)

I'm not the biggest SKY fan, not because the coverage is bad, on the contrary but as LP has said it's behind a pay wall which I believe is a hindrance to the sport in general. Just a couple of anecdotes to add to this:

The thing that got be hooked onto golf was as a 9 year old watching the 1996 Masters. Watching Faldo win in an unbelievable last round sticks with me to this day, no doubt that was formative in my golf obsession. Had that been on SKY, my dad refuses to give Murdoch any money, then I wouldn't have seen it and who knows whether I would be playing golf now.

Secondly is cricket, I help run a small village cricket club, who are really struggling to recruit players. We contacted other local teams, they are really struggling too. So we contacted the county for help they said it's a national issue. Now in 2005 when we won the Ashes in that amazing series cricket was huge and participation was the highest in decades. It then went to SKY and despite in that time England having great success winning the T20 world cup, being the world number 1 test, ODI and T20 team, very few people could recognise the team. Because it's behind a paywall cricket is no longer in the national consciousness which has a massive impact on getting people to play the sport.

Obviously golf is a bit different but being behind a pay wall is never going to grow the game.

My firm belief that satellite TV will become less important as the internet and Smart devices take over. Yes satellite and SKY changed the game but technological evolution stops for no company and the rise of Netflix and Amazon Prime is a good example, this is the future of TV and viewing habits. 

I am surprised nothing has been said about Amazon taking the rights, they are known to have ambitions of broadcasting sport, they have the money to put in competitive bids. Netflix have over 8 million subscribers already and only charge Â£6 p/m 1/3 the cost of getting Sky Sports Golf plus you get all of their other content


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## pinberry (Jul 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			I'm not the biggest SKY fan, not because the coverage is bad, on the contrary but as LP has said it's behind a pay wall which I believe is a hindrance to the sport in general. Just a couple of anecdotes to add to this:

The thing that got be hooked onto golf was as a 9 year old watching the 1996 Masters. Watching Faldo win in an unbelievable last round sticks with me to this day, no doubt that was formative in my golf obsession. Had that been on SKY, my dad refuses to give Murdoch any money, then I wouldn't have seen it and who knows whether I would be playing golf now.

Secondly is cricket, I help run a small village cricket club, who are really struggling to recruit players. We contacted other local teams, they are really struggling too. So we contacted the county for help they said it's a national issue. Now in 2005 when we won the Ashes in that amazing series cricket was huge and participation was the highest in decades. It then went to SKY and despite in that time England having great success winning the T20 world cup, being the world number 1 test, ODI and T20 team, very few people could recognise the team. Because it's behind a paywall cricket is no longer in the national consciousness which has a massive impact on getting people to play the sport.

Obviously golf is a bit different but being behind a pay wall is never going to grow the game.

My firm belief that satellite TV will become less important as the internet and Smart devices take over. Yes satellite and SKY changed the game but technological evolution stops for no company and the rise of Netflix and Amazon Prime is a good example, this is the future of TV and viewing habits. 

I am surprised nothing has been said about Amazon taking the rights, they are known to have ambitions of broadcasting sport, they have the money to put in competitive bids. Netflix have over 8 million subscribers already and only charge Â£6 p/m 1/3 the cost of getting Sky Sports Golf plus you get all of their other content
		
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Limited understanding of the problem. It's a chicken and egg situation. The reason why many sports are behind a paywall it's because they get more money by doing so. More money means higher purses. If you stop selling TV rights to the likes of Sky etc then there will be less money flowing around. It follows that it would be completely irrational for cricket/golf/whatever to stop selling their rights to Sky. 

By the way, on Netflix, they charge Â£9p/m and it's a massively cash negative and money losing company. Their business model is to get you hooked up to their product and then rise the price at least 3x to start breaking-even (never mind making a profit). So Netflix is too good to be true. Trust me on this one, I run quite a big equity fund and Netflix will be a poster child of this current market cycle.


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## road2ruin (Jul 12, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			hmm they have all these departments to stop one company having a monopoly .. who would have thought the end user would end up worse off...

typical rip off
		
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I completely agree with this.

Once upon a time I had a Sky subscription. It was fairly expensive but I'd be able to watch all the football I could ever want. Then one day someone said it was bad for the consumer if just one company could monopolise the market and to give people choice they'd ensure that other companies a slice of the action. So, BT Sport took some of the football, Sky's prices didn't drop and if I wanted to watch the same amount of football I'd have to get another subscription and my monthly costs would shoot up. Fast forward another few years and it now looks like Amazon will get in on the action which means if I want to watch the games that they get i'll have to paid for the privilege. 

So, over the years, to ensure the consumer got more choice what they've actually done is price a lot of people out of the market. I got rid of Sky, mainly due to the fact that with a young family I just don't get to watch it as much as I used to. I now pay Â£75.00 per year and get access to every sport imaginable (in HD) yet still the big companies wonder why more and more people are being pushed down this route.


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## r0wly86 (Jul 12, 2018)

pinberry said:



			Limited understanding of the problem. It's a chicken and egg situation. The reason why many sports are behind a paywall it's because they get more money by doing so. More money means higher purses. If you stop selling TV rights to the likes of Sky etc then there will be less money flowing around. It follows that it would be completely irrational for cricket/golf/whatever to stop selling their rights to Sky. 

By the way, on Netflix, they charge Â£9p/m and it's a massively cash negative and money losing company. Their business model is to get you hooked up to their product and then rise the price at least 3x to start breaking-even (never mind making a profit). So Netflix is too good to be true. Trust me on this one, I run quite a big equity fund and Netflix will be a poster child of this current market cycle.
		
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Sounds a lot like a pyramid scheme, you can't get out of the cycle because of the money you've paid or are due. The logical conclusion is the money will keep going up until it is unaffordable and/or the broadcasting company goes belly up or cancels the contract at which point the sports company is up a certain creek without an implement of propulsion.

It also begs the question are the governing bodies responsible for getting money or growing the sport. What good is it if the ECB makes a lot of money from SKY if going with SKY kills off the grassroots game. I understand the argument that the extra money can be invested but what's the point of investing if no one is taking up the sport.

As I say with cricket, it used to be the nation's summer sport, now not many people could name the team. In 2005 everyone new who Flintoff and KP were. I know there's a fine balance of getting money into the game and growing the game but in my opinion the latter is the most important.

I will bow to your knowledge on the matter, but my understanding was that Netflix were borrowing huge sums of money to increase their original programming and to keep growing in a relatively new market. Not so much a loss leader in the traditional sense but a company that knows it's a market leader in a growth market so is mortgaging everything to stay there. But you are the expert so if you say differently I won't argue.

Also Netflix subscriptions:

Single account in SD: Â£5.99

2 screens with HD: Â£6.99

4 Screens with 4K: Â£9.99

But considering Sky Sports Golf by itself is Â£18pm not including the basic package on top it's great value


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## Garush34 (Jul 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			I'm not the biggest SKY fan, not because the coverage is bad, on the contrary but as LP has said it's behind a pay wall which I believe is a hindrance to the sport in general. Just a couple of anecdotes to add to this:

The thing that got be hooked onto golf was as a 9 year old watching the 1996 Masters. Watching Faldo win in an unbelievable last round sticks with me to this day, no doubt that was formative in my golf obsession. Had that been on SKY, my dad refuses to give Murdoch any money, then I wouldn't have seen it and who knows whether I would be playing golf now.

Secondly is cricket, I help run a small village cricket club, who are really struggling to recruit players. We contacted other local teams, they are really struggling too. So we contacted the county for help they said it's a national issue. Now in 2005 when we won the Ashes in that amazing series cricket was huge and participation was the highest in decades. It then went to SKY and despite in that time England having great success winning the T20 world cup, being the world number 1 test, ODI and T20 team, very few people could recognise the team. Because it's behind a paywall cricket is no longer in the national consciousness which has a massive impact on getting people to play the sport.

Obviously golf is a bit different but being behind a pay wall is never going to grow the game.

My firm belief that satellite TV will become less important as the internet and Smart devices take over. Yes satellite and SKY changed the game but technological evolution stops for no company and the rise of Netflix and Amazon Prime is a good example, this is the future of TV and viewing habits. 

I am surprised nothing has been said about Amazon taking the rights, they are known to have ambitions of broadcasting sport, they have the money to put in competitive bids. Netflix have over 8 million subscribers already and only charge Â£6 p/m 1/3 the cost of getting Sky Sports Golf plus you get all of their other content
		
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It's all well and good saying that Netflix is 1/3 of the cost of sky sports, but if they were to get into the live sports business, there's no way its going to stay at the same price. Why would they pay millions and keep the pricing the same. Yeah they will get more subscribers but at Â£6 a month they would need to get a hell of a lot to recoup the money.


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## pinberry (Jul 12, 2018)

r0wly86 said:



			I will bow to your knowledge on the matter, but my understanding was that Netflix were borrowing huge sums of money to increase their original programming and to keep growing in a relatively new market. Not so much a loss leader in the traditional sense but a company that knows it's a market leader in a growth market so is mortgaging everything to stay there. But you are the expert so if you say differently I won't argue.
		
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Netflix this year will spend more money than any studio on movies and series production. The amount is around $13bn. Netflix will lose around $4bn in 2018 and never made any cash in the last six. Actually, the cash losses are getting bigger as they expand. Netflix is indeed borrowing money to make up for these losses.

How will Netflix ever get to positive cash? The idea is that it will gain more users (very probable), won't need to increase production costs massively (less likely) and it will need to increase prices. Note that you need all of the three to make Netflix work as a business. Where I have problems and where I think the Netflix business model will ultimately crumble is production costs and subscription costs. Netflix needs to spend a lot on content just to convince you that you're getting value for you money. Most content is crap, hits are hard to plan, you have (increasing) competition from studios which will only push content costs up. On subscriptions, people love Netflix now because it's soooo cheap - the value for money is incredibly high. But to make a profit, Netflix will probably need to hike prices to around Â£30/month. At which point, the value-for-money proposition looks a lot worse.

Indeed, Netflix today is too good to be true.


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## clarke_111 (Jul 12, 2018)

road2ruin said:



			So, over the years, to ensure the consumer got more choice what they've actually done is price a lot of people out of the market. I got rid of Sky, mainly due to the fact that with a young family I just don't get to watch it as much as I used to. I now pay Â£75.00 per year and get access to every sport imaginable (in HD) yet still the big companies wonder why more and more people are being pushed down this route.
		
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Can I ask where you manage to pay Â£75 pa and get access to all the sport-esp if that includes the golf. I had previously accessed all via Sky go but unfortunately this option will soon disappear so looking for alternative ways to view the golf


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## *TQ* (Jul 12, 2018)

clarke_111 said:



			Can I ask where you manage to pay Â£75 pa and get access to all the sport-esp if that includes the golf. I had previously accessed all via Sky go but unfortunately this option will soon disappear so looking for alternative ways to view the golf
		
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I'm interested as well.

I currently get Sky Sports through NowTV at Â£34 a month (no option for single sport and I only watch golf).


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2018)

It will be to one of the illegal stream sites which over the years will be get closed and some people prosecuted


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## r0wly86 (Jul 12, 2018)

Garush34 said:



			It's all well and good saying that Netflix is 1/3 of the cost of sky sports, but if they were to get into the live sports business, there's no way its going to stay at the same price. Why would they pay millions and keep the pricing the same. Yeah they will get more subscribers but at Â£6 a month they would need to get a hell of a lot to recoup the money.
		
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I wouldn't think that the subs would stay the same. The advantage of streaming over satellite is that infrastructure is cheaper and customising is easier. Netflix or Amazon could much more easily produce a separate subscription for sport at a lower price. Not having to fill the calendar with second  rate events or reruns or analysis that hardly anyone watches outside of tournaments.


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## *TQ* (Jul 12, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It will be to one of the illegal stream sites which over the years will be get closed and some people prosecuted
		
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Ah Ok, definitely not interested in anything illegal.


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## drdel (Jul 12, 2018)

moogie said:



			There's some right pish wrote on here
How much coverage did golf used to get on terrestrial TV then??
Take away majors ,  or the old benson & hedges or whatever it was,  then I'd say next to zilch

Sky has brought golf and golf coverage to a different level
It's been great for the game
( unlike what has happened to football )
To get European tour and us tour events every week is fantastic 

If you want it
Pay for it
If you don't
Just shut up and don't whinge
It ain't coming back to the BBC anytime soon
They've no interest
		
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I'm another who agrees with you.  

Sky has invested way more than the Beeb would dream of committing. I can watch golf on Sky anytime I wish and record a wide range on their dedicated channel. They cover and support a wide range of golf competitions.

If you think the bit by bit coverage you'd get from a terrestrial channel/internet based system would be good for the sport i'm afraid you're in dream land.


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## Slab (Jul 13, 2018)

road2ruin said:



			I completely agree with this.

Once upon a time I had a Sky subscription. It was fairly expensive but *I'd be able to watch all the football I could ever want*. Then one day someone said it was bad for the consumer if just one company could monopolise the market and to give people choice they'd ensure that other companies a slice of the action. *So, BT Sport took some of the football,* Sky's prices didn't drop and *if I wanted to watch the same amount of football I'd have to get another subscription *and my monthly costs would shoot up. Fast forward another few years and it now looks like Amazon will get in on the action which means if I want to watch the games that they get i'll have to paid for the privilege. 

So, over the years, to ensure the consumer got more choice what they've actually done is price a lot of people out of the market. I got rid of Sky, mainly due to the fact that with a young family I just don't get to watch it as much as I used to. I now pay Â£75.00 per year and get access to every sport imaginable (in HD) yet still the big companies wonder why more and more people are being pushed down this route.
		
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A bit off topic I don't remember it working like that though

When there was only one (Sky) wasn't it something like 72 games a season live on sky each season

Then Sky launched a second service (separate to the sports pack with something like 24 games a season (a premier league season ticket they called it) so you had to pay twice but then got 96 games or you could choose just the season ticket and get a live game most weeks (they even sold them as individual games for like Â£8ea)

That lasted a year or so then the season ticket got pulled into the sky pack and more games were made available (something like 140 a season and was split between two broadcasters) So that 'all the football you could ever want' number was just 72 games but now you paid two subscriptions but for twice that many games

With a total pot of 380 games a season it was the Premier League themselves that kept increasing the _amount _of live games they sold under each new contract as more broadcasters got into it

Now we'll have 2 or even 3 broadcasters showing around 200 live EPL games a season and you'll need subscriptions to all of them to see it all (but that's more than three times 'all the football you could ever want' remember)

And every year the prices went up

So instead of spending 4 hours a week watching 'all' the live football, now it would need 10-12 hours (just for the EPL)
So either you change your life to watch more (just because its on) or you still watch about 4 hours but are paying for three times that  (or somewhere in the middle) 
Either way it could be argued there is too much live EPL football so you don't need to pay for it all, just the amount you want

Problem is that many fans now expect to see their team live on tv dam near every single week (and that will be spread over all broadcasters hence the three subscriptions) Whereas 'football' fans used to be satisfied with a live game from the league now its got to be their own team home or away. If the punter wants more the punter has to pay more 

Getting back to your points:

Setanta & BT sport didnâ€™t *take *some of the football, the premier league just made more available to buy
Because sky *didnâ€™t lose any* of their football they didnâ€™t drop their price either
And as I say you might believe you only watch the _same amount of football_ but you bought a lot more of it 



To get back kinda on topic, if they split the PGA Tour & European Tour over two broadcasters then on paper it would be great, just pay for what you want and it'll be cheaper but in reality the punter will very soon want to see both...

So _'Once upon a time'_ is a nice fairytale but that's all it really is


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## Slab (Jul 13, 2018)

Too late to edit previous post but I pay for well in excess of 1,000 live games a seasonâ€¦ _*more than one thousand!*_ All we wanted was a game or two each week wasnâ€™t it?

Wanna know how many I sat & watched start to finish last season? nada, zip. Like most my time in front of the tv for sport viewing is limited & for me itâ€™s mostly taken up by golf


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## azazel (Jul 13, 2018)

Slab said:



			A bit off topic I don't remember it working like that though

When there was only one (Sky) wasn't it something like 72 games a season live on sky each season

Then Sky launched a second service (separate to the sports pack with something like 24 games a season (a premier league season ticket they called it) so you had to pay twice but then got 96 games or you could choose just the season ticket and get a live game most weeks (they even sold them as individual games for like Â£8ea)

That lasted a year or so then the season ticket got pulled into the sky pack and more games were made available (something like 140 a season and was split between two broadcasters) So that 'all the football you could ever want' number was just 72 games but now you paid two subscriptions but for twice that many games

With a total pot of 380 games a season it was the Premier League themselves that kept increasing the _amount _of live games they sold under each new contract as more broadcasters got into it

Now we'll have 2 or even 3 broadcasters showing around 200 live EPL games a season and you'll need subscriptions to all of them to see it all (but that's more than three times 'all the football you could ever want' remember)

And every year the prices went up

So instead of spending 4 hours a week watching 'all' the live football, now it would need 10-12 hours (just for the EPL)
So either you change your life to watch more (just because its on) or you still watch about 4 hours but are paying for three times that  (or somewhere in the middle) 
Either way it could be argued there is too much live EPL football so you don't need to pay for it all, just the amount you want

Problem is that many fans now expect to see their team live on tv dam near every single week (and that will be spread over all broadcasters hence the three subscriptions) Whereas 'football' fans used to be satisfied with a live game from the league now its got to be their own team home or away. If the punter wants more the punter has to pay more 

Getting back to your points:

Setanta & BT sport didnâ€™t *take *some of the football, the premier league just made more available to buy
Because sky *didnâ€™t lose any* of their football they didnâ€™t drop their price either
And as I say you might believe you only watch the _same amount of football_ but you bought a lot more of it 



To get back kinda on topic, if they split the PGA Tour & European Tour over two broadcasters then on paper it would be great, just pay for what you want and it'll be cheaper but in reality the punter will very soon want to see both...

So _'Once upon a time'_ is a nice fairytale but that's all it really is 

Click to expand...

Great post. The TV companies and the EPL know full well that the majority of people will want to have access to all channels for fear of missing out on their team being on the one they don't have, whereas if you could be content with one game at the weekend and one through the week you could save a fortune. And that's before you even get into the fact that the EPL, SPL, Football League, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga and Ligue 1 are also all available.


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## Jacko_G (Jul 14, 2018)

Hope Sky lose it they have ruined sport.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			Hope Sky lose it they have ruined sport.
		
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Who would you like to see fill the void that you would prefer, and why? Someone will and someone has to. Most sports reply on tv money now.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			Hope Sky lose it they have ruined sport.
		
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How so?

imo any lack of participation (in any sport) is down to parenting and technology. Kids now prefer computers to going outside and many parents seem happy to let the kids do just that. 

Wimbledon has always been free on tv, is tennis in the uk thriving?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			Hope Sky lose it they have ruined sport.
		
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Rubbish. They have invested in many sports, including those like netball well out of the mainstream and now seeing growth in participation. They provide dedicated sports coverage of many big events. What do you suggest in its place?


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## Garush34 (Jul 23, 2018)

New channel has entered the mix and will show it for free - http://elevensports.com/eleven-spor...mpionship-for-free-across-multiple-platforms/


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## karlcole (Jul 23, 2018)

So itâ€™s all online streaming and not on tv? 

Least itâ€™s better than nothing


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## jmf1488 (Jul 23, 2018)

So you have to watch it on a tablet. Great.


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## HughJars (Jul 23, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			How so?

imo any lack of participation (in any sport) is down to parenting and technology. *Kids now prefer computers* to going outside and many parents seem happy to let the kids do just that. 

Wimbledon has always been free on tv, is tennis in the uk thriving?
		
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I'm 52, I was around when computer games started, I used to play for hours, didn't stop me from playing football, golf and cycling too. 

And yes, when Wimbledon is on, you see kids out with their rackets, same as we used to every June when we were young.

Cycling, look at how it's boomed over the last 20 years, with an hour of highlights prime time throughout July of the TDF no doubt partly responsible.

Kids want to do what they see on TV, golf isn't on council tv now, it's no  surprise participation is crashing.


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## Garush34 (Jul 23, 2018)

karlcole said:



			So itâ€™s all online streaming and not on tv? 

Least itâ€™s better than nothing
		
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jmf1488 said:



			So you have to watch it on a tablet. Great. 

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Yup all online, by the looks of it. Suppose you could get it on the laptop and if you have a HDMI port on the laptop get it up on the TV screen. Not idea but better than seeing none of it.


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## USER1999 (Jul 23, 2018)

Garush34 said:



			Yup all online, by the looks of it. Suppose you could get it on the laptop and if you have a HDMI port on the laptop get it up on the TV screen. Not idea but better than seeing none of it.
		
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So lets grow the game by showing it on an obscure streaming site, rather than put it on main stream tv. Even subscription tv is more mainstream than this dogs breakfast of an idea.

After all the bad publicity they got last year you would think they would learn.

Time to bin it off as a major?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2018)

It will mean itâ€™s now available to more people and at zero cost 

Being on terrestrial telly would be better but for one event itâ€™s going to be free to watch and better than paying for it but that will change next year no doubt

They arenâ€™t going to bin it off


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## Garush34 (Jul 23, 2018)

karlcole said:



			So itâ€™s all online streaming and not on tv? 

Least itâ€™s better than nothing
		
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jmf1488 said:



			So you have to watch it on a tablet. Great. 

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murphthemog said:



			So lets grow the game by showing it on an obscure streaming site, rather than put it on main stream tv. Even subscription tv is more mainstream than this dogs breakfast of an idea.

After all the bad publicity they got last year you would think they would learn.

Time to bin it off as a major?
		
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Yeah I don't agree with it either, clearly the PGA are asking too much for it, and it seems to me this new service is just offering it for free as part of a trial.


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## Garush34 (Jul 23, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It will mean itâ€™s now available to more people and at zero cost 

Being on terrestrial telly would be better but for one event itâ€™s going to be free to watch and better than paying for it but that will change next year no doubt

They arenâ€™t going to bin it off
		
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It may be available to more people but i think its likely less people will watch. Unless your interested in golf your not going to find it easy, as you would if it was on sky or the bbc.


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## pinberry (Jul 23, 2018)

biggest misunderstanding these days in media is that everything is mobile. Yes, we do more things on mobile and mobile phones etc are great, but for watching stuff, nothing quite beats a good old fashioned tv. Having the fourth major of the year available on streaming only (don't care if it's for free or not) is just terrible.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2018)

Garush34 said:



			It may be available to more people but i think its likely less people will watch. Unless your interested in golf your not going to find it easy, as you would if it was on sky or the bbc.
		
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I think it was only a matter of time before something went to online viewing for a sporting event - was expecting it to be Amazon or Facebook but mainly Amazon which can also be watched on the firestick 

But I think what it will show is how much of a minority sport golf is. People watched the Masters and The Open because they were the majors that have been historicall broadcast - the US Open and US PGA from what I can remember never really used to be on before Sky so a lot of people donâ€™t really have the same connection to them compared to The Masters and The Open - how many of us can recall the Lyle shot from the bunker or the Faldo putt during the Playoff or the dramatic finishes during the Open over the decades - but until recently can anyone really recall any drama at either the US Open or PGA before Sky - the general public prob donâ€™t and I suspect a lot of golfers donâ€™t. I suspect the only people who watch either event are hardcore golf fans - I donâ€™t think many will buy a subscription to watch The US Open or PGA or The Players etc so this online sport company I expect wonâ€™t have much success in the UK and the USPGA will do something next year 

None of be terrestrial channels are interested in either of the US events which shows how little interest there is them

The day The Masters moved to all four days at Sky was the start of the reduction in viewing for the UK public in major golf events


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## Grant85 (Jul 23, 2018)

I personally think pay TV broadcast should be more heavily regulated. 

As many posters have pointed out, unlike many other economies where competition helps drive down consumer prices - the more providers that are involved in sports, the more that the consumer ends up paying. This is because one event is generally only broadcast by one broadcaster. It's not like if you don't like watching a game on Sky, you can switch and go to BT - which would allow the laws of economics to determine the best and cheapest provider. 

The way things are going you will have all major sporting events spread over dozens of TV channels and streaming services. It will cost hundreds a month - even at discounted prices - to cover all bases. 

I personally love watching sport on TV. I don't get as much time to do this as I used to. As I now I have kids I really enjoy watching golf from the states and the champions league matches. This is generally because they are all on after the kids are in bed and I can really sit down and enjoy them. If i could cover these on a single service I would & would possibly do away with the other service and maybe miss out on a lot of domestic football. 

As for the PGA Championship. I don't really know what the plan is for this. Whether the PGA are trying to squeeze extra money out of broadcasters or if they want to see the whole thing streamed worldwide on their own site, but I think not getting a deal with Sky is a bad move. 

I know Sky are a profit driven company but IMO they cover golf extremely well. They have a range of good and knowledgeable presenters, pundits and commentary. They put on a great show during the big events and don't have too many adverts, given they are a commercial broadcaster. Personally loved watching most of the Open coverage and especially pleased this was a Mark Roe free zone. i would imagine a lot of households were gripped yesterday with the Open coverage on Sky, even if they don't usually watch much golf. 

The way this is going I believe we are going to have every sport making their own broadcast and streaming this live to anyone who wants it for a fee. Baseball already do this with a direct service run by MLB available worldwide to watch every MLB game for about Â£100 per annum. While this may seem good for the super fan, it will do very little to grow sports as it will become very hard to attract new viewers to a sport. No one will stumble upon the final round of a golf event while channel hopping, and get engrossed. 

I believe we have already seen this happening in Boxing where pay per view events have led to most big fights not only being away from terrestrial TV, but even normal Sky or BT sport channels. Consequently, there used to be numerous UK boxers who were household names and now even some keen sports fans would be hard pushed to name 2 or 3 UK boxers who are still active.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 23, 2018)

Blame  the BBC. 

They find the money and resources to cover two weeks of Wimbledon each year (sometimes on both 1 & 2).

Beyond that and MOTD they show little interest in bidding for any sporting events other than those protected by the State. 

All professional sports, if they are to survive, require the income from the broadcasting rights.

They can sometimes take a broader view and not always accept the highest bid but there has to be a will on the part of the broadcasters.

BTW the US Open was broadcast in the UK back in the late 80's.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Blame  the BBC. 

They find the money and resources to cover two weeks of Wimbledon each year (sometimes on both 1 & 2).

Beyond that and MOTD they show little interest in bidding for any sporting events other than those protected by the State. 

All professional sports, if they are to survive, require the income from the broadcasting rights.

They can sometimes take a broader view and not always accept the highest bid but there has to be a will on the part of the broadcasters.

BTW the US Open was broadcast in the UK back in the late 80's.
		
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If you are going to blame the BBC then at least go to the source - the government who have restricted their finances and cut their budget 

The BBC have two channels and have to cater for every single person who watches terrestrial telly - 

Wimbledon is massive - the viewing figures far out strip any golf event - believe more watched Murray win Wimbledon than any final day of the Open in recent history , Wimbledon is more popular than the golf so they will continue to try and show it , MOTD brings in about 4 mil each week and is just highlights

The BBC canâ€™t afford to bid for all the events - they have to spread their budget across the whole spectrum including online and radio 

They canâ€™t go mad outbidding subscription channels.

If BBC went and offered Â£20mil for the Golf then you would get people complaining about spending millions on a minority sport 

As for sports surviving on subscription telly - sorry but thatâ€™s false imo - sports survived very well before Sky came along - now it seems certain people get richer but the sports get less people watching them - how much will Golf really get from the extra Â£5mil Sky offered for the Open ? 

And sports will always take the higher bid - itâ€™s hard to see which sport has improved under Sky - for richer yes - improved - very debatable


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## Grant85 (Jul 23, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Blame  the BBC. 

They find the money and resources to cover two weeks of Wimbledon each year (sometimes on both 1 & 2).

Beyond that and MOTD they show little interest in bidding for any sporting events other than those protected by the State. 

All professional sports, if they are to survive, require the income from the broadcasting rights.

They can sometimes take a broader view and not always accept the highest bid but there has to be a will on the part of the broadcasters.

BTW the US Open was broadcast in the UK back in the late 80's.
		
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I wouldn't really blame the BBC. They are not a sports broadcaster and only have a limited budget to bid for certain coverage. They generally broadcast things that they do cover extremely well. 

Also - it's very outdated that some events are locked in to terrestrial TV - such as Wimbledon, FA Cup Final and International Football Tournaments - yet absolute gash like this can happen to a Golf Major championship and not be on any TV channel. 

Incidentally - had a quick look at the Eleven Sports site. Seems they are going to launch with a free US PGA Championship and will announce pricing plans prior to this. So at least this event will be free, but i can see myself giving this the big boycott as I don't think there is room or a need for a further broadcaster.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 23, 2018)

Grant85 said:



			I wouldn't really blame the BBC. They are not a sports broadcaster and only have a limited budget to bid for certain coverage. They generally broadcast things that they do cover extremely well.
		
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Not being a sports broadcaster is a recent development on the part of the BBC.

Previously they were the major outlet for many sports and were extremely good a

However,  attitudes changed (along with budgets) and after their complacency lead to a hardening of attitudes by many sports  governing bodies they decided to virtually withdraw from all bidding, not just for golf.

As for minority sports; well they continue to provide saturation coverage of a sport  with far fewer participants than golf and far less success by domestic players. But then very few BBC executives play golf these days and Wimbledon is nicely convenient to their base in Central London.


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## Lwatson-jones (Jul 23, 2018)

I don't quite get the animosity against online streamed services. Sadly, with this connected internet world, the demise of terrestrial TV in eventually inevitable.

Almost all modern TVs are "smart" and in so, have a browser of some description. Those that don't have, will possibly have a console (xbox one, PS4 and the like) or have a blue-ray player of which most of these are quite 'smart'.

I don't agree with them being solely mobile app based as why would I watch anything more than a silly youtube video on a 5" phone screen.

I look forward to this service, and if it competes with Sky and the BBC for (DECENT) coverage, then I would happily part with money for it.


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## USER1999 (Jul 23, 2018)

Streaming is for kids, who expect everything for nothing, and are happy watching rubbish quality as long as they don't have to pay for it.


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## Green Bay Hacker (Jul 23, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Streaming is for kids, who expect everything for nothing, and are happy watching rubbish quality as long as they don't have to pay for it.
		
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Where's the like button?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 23, 2018)

And those who live in more rural locations where internet connectivity is often patchy?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 23, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Streaming is for kids, who expect everything for nothing, and are happy watching rubbish quality as long as they don't have to pay for it.
		
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And thatâ€™s exactly who they need to aim at to get interest in the game

Majority of kids today donâ€™t watch tv itâ€™s all apps and streaming 

We love golf already 

Tbh I streamed the open on my phone down the pub as we went for a late lunch just as Woods was teeing off


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## Garush34 (Jul 23, 2018)

Lwatson-jones said:



			I don't quite get the animosity against online streamed services. Sadly, with this connected internet world, the demise of terrestrial TV in eventually inevitable.

Almost all modern TVs are "smart" and in so, have a browser of some description. Those that don't have, will possibly have a console (xbox one, PS4 and the like) or have a blue-ray player of which most of these are quite 'smart'.

I don't agree with them being solely mobile app based as why would I watch anything more than a silly youtube video on a 5" phone screen.

I look forward to this service, and if it competes with Sky and the BBC for (DECENT) coverage, then I would happily part with money for it.
		
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The problem with smart tv's with browsers and PS4's etc with browsers is that they don't support the streaming of video because they don't have the required software or power to do it.


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## Lwatson-jones (Jul 23, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Streaming is for kids, who expect everything for nothing, and are happy watching rubbish quality as long as they don't have to pay for it.
		
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I don't agree streaming is for kids, I am passed the mid-life era, and love the technology!
Why does streaming have to be rubbish quality?
I happily pay for Netflix and get excellent quality video
I am sure Prime is also a superb service.



Garush34 said:



			The problem with smart tv's with browsers and PS4's etc with browsers is that they don't support the streaming of video because they don't have the required software or power to do it.
		
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Interesting, didn't know that as I don't use the browsers on my xbox or PS4 and don't have a smart tv.

to be honest, I am just playing devils advocate reference the streaming.


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## Dasit (Jul 23, 2018)

I live in the capital city, London, and my internet is too crap to get a decent picture when live sport is streamed

Watching something like the PGA doesnâ€™t grow the game... it is far more obscure putting it on a random bloody site kids are not going to seek that out

If they really want to grow the game and donâ€™t want Skyâ€™s money give the rights to twitch and YouTube, get a load of viewers who would see that on their homepages


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## pauljames87 (Jul 24, 2018)

Dasit said:



			I live in the capital city, London, and my internet is too crap to get a decent picture when live sport is streamed

Watching something like the PGA doesnâ€™t grow the game... it is far more obscure putting it on a random bloody site kids are not going to seek that out

If they really want to grow the game and donâ€™t want Skyâ€™s money give the rights to twitch and YouTube, get a load of viewers who would see that on their homepages
		
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Have you actually read how they are doing it? First 2 days being streamed live via Facebook live ..

So that is basically what you have just suggested


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## USER1999 (Jul 24, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			Have you actually read how they are doing it? First 2 days being streamed live via Facebook live ..

So that is basically what you have just suggested
		
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Yep, that works for me.

What's facebook?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 24, 2018)

Itâ€™s not the responsibility of a broadcaster to grow the game or any sport tbf. Itâ€™s the governing bodies and itâ€™s their greed that is taking these sports to other platforms and the highest bidder.


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## moogie (Jul 24, 2018)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s not the responsibility of a broadcaster to grow the game or any sport tbf. Itâ€™s the governing bodies and itâ€™s their greed that is taking these sports to other platforms and the highest bidder.
		
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Exactly Paul ðŸ‘
Totally agree

They won't gain viewers,  they will lose them
Me for one
I'm a sky subscriber,  so obviously preferred it all in one place

If it was available through another source to pay for (virgin/bt etc)
I wouldn't pay,  I already have one subscription to sky
I don't do Facebook either,  so I won't be seeing this event either
So that's me out then


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 24, 2018)

moogie said:



			Exactly Paul &#128077;
Totally agree

They won't gain viewers,  they will lose them
Me for one
I'm a sky subscriber,  so obviously preferred it all in one place

If it was available through another source to pay for (virgin/bt etc)
I wouldn't pay,  I already have one subscription to sky
I don't do Facebook either,  so I won't be seeing this event either
So that's me out then
		
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Plus this is the US PGA event, do any of us really believe they care about growing the game in the UK?


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## pauljames87 (Jul 24, 2018)

moogie said:



			Exactly Paul &#128077;
Totally agree

They won't gain viewers,  they will lose them
Me for one
I'm a sky subscriber,  so obviously preferred it all in one place

If it was available through another source to pay for (virgin/bt etc)
I wouldn't pay,  I already have one subscription to sky
I don't do Facebook either,  so I won't be seeing this event either
So that's me out then
		
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Will you not? They have a free app for Android and iOS systems... free 7 day pass for all to watch the pga for free

Be mad not to for free


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## USER1999 (Jul 24, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			Will you not? They have a free app for Android and iOS systems... free 7 day pass for all to watch the pga for free

Be mad not to for free
		
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I don't do facebook either. Never will.

One of the first rules of business is to look after and keep your existing customers. This sort of rubbish alienates, and a small number of newbies will not make up the short fall.

Falling viewers will reduce the advertising revenue, and long term, has to be bad for the game.


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## Sweep (Jul 24, 2018)

It all seems a bit bonkers to me.
I watch golf every week, 2 or sometimes 3 tournaments if they show Champions Tour or LPGA. It makes my Sky subscription worthwhile.
And now, when supposedly the 4th major of the year comes along itâ€™s the one week I wonâ€™t watch any golf. Now I get that it may be streamed if you can find it etc etc but the truth is most (including golf fans like me) wonâ€™t bother.
Clearly trading Sky off for the BBC to take their event to a larger audience backfired massively for the US PGA. Certainly from the outside it would seem that Sky have been loyal broadcasters for the sport. The US PGA didnâ€™t get the same loyalty from the BBC.
I am not sure how you can call it a major when itâ€™s the only golf event you canâ€™t watch on TV. The Trilby Tour gets more coverage.
The US PGA need to sort this and quick or risk losing their major status. Last year was bad, this is even worse. They canâ€™t risk another year.


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## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2018)

Only just seen this thread and it's 20 pages deep - can someone summarise please? Something about the PGA Champs not being on any TV channel??


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## USER1999 (Jul 24, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Only just seen this thread and it's 20 pages deep - can someone summarise please? Something about the PGA Champs not being on any TV channel??
		
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That's it. It will apparently be streamed, on an obscure web site, or may be on Facebook.


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## USER1999 (Jul 24, 2018)

I have a decent sized telly that I watch golf on. I can't stream sport. Internet where I am, 15 miles from the capital is worse than it is in outer mongolia. I would not watch it on a phone anyway, its golf, the ball is small. Golf is best watched on telly. I could chrome cast it, but I have tried that, and in my house, the quality is rubbish.

If their target audience is kids who don't play golf, most of whom will be in bed when this is shown, they have lost the plot.

Fat, middle aged baldies are the target audience, and showing the 4th major online is not going to change this. Ever.


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## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2018)

If I can cast it from said website to my TV then this is great news - the Sky-broadcast majors I can only watch on my iPad via Sky Go.

However, if I can't then it's not the best news. My laptop is rubbish, and the iPad is not great either.

The bit someone mentioned about Facebook showing the first two days is great though, since I'll be in the office those days!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 24, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			If I can cast it from said website to my TV then this is great news - the Sky-broadcast majors I can only watch on my iPad via Sky Go.

However, if I can't then it's not the best news. My laptop is rubbish, and the iPad is not great either.

The bit someone mentioned about Facebook showing the first two days is great though, since I'll be in the office those days!
		
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Try and get a 2nd hand Apple TV box and then you could mirror from your ipad to your tv.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 24, 2018)

We have regular Sky, not HD for the Sky channels, we do have it for BBC, ITV etc. I watched the Open on Sunday and really struggled to pick up the ball on the greens and fairways. I thought it was due to the ground being scorched. I then watched the news that night on BBC, HD, and they showed clips. I could see it perfectly and it confirmed the difference between HD and standard. 

The point of this comment is, what will the picture be like that is streamed? If it is not perfect then golf is a nightmare and not worth the effort. In the meantime I need to persuade my wife that we need to get the Sky channels on HD


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## IanM (Jul 24, 2018)

Theirin lies the issue... if it is on a decent App/Site and can be cast to the TV is good quality, no probs.  Any diversion from that, I won't bother.  

If the PGA wish to lose massive chunks of adverstising revenue, that's their perogative... it usually ends too late on a Sunday anyway...


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## Orikoru (Jul 24, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We have regular Sky, not HD for the Sky channels, we do have it for BBC, ITV etc. I watched the Open on Sunday and really struggled to pick up the ball on the greens and fairways. I thought it was due to the ground being scorched. I then watched the news that night on BBC, HD, and they showed clips. I could see it perfectly and it confirmed the difference between HD and standard. 

The point of this comment is, what will the picture be like that is streamed? If it is not perfect then golf is a nightmare and not worth the effort. In the meantime I need to persuade my wife that we need to get the Sky channels on HD 

Click to expand...

Watching on my iPad I couldn't always see the ball until it stopped. Thought it was just my eyes. :mmm:


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## pauljames87 (Jul 24, 2018)

This thread just sums the world up today. Never happy

Golf should be free to all..so the bbc got the last major.. people moaned they had to use the red button or iPlayer 

Sky havenâ€™t got all the majors.. yet will moan if the bill goes up..

The pga is going to be FREE for all to see.. yet oh I canâ€™t get it the normal way

No pleasing some people


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## USER1999 (Jul 24, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			This thread just sums the world up today. Never happy

Golf should be free to all..so the bbc got the last major.. people moaned they had to use the red button or iPlayer 

Sky havenâ€™t got all the majors.. yet will moan if the bill goes up..

The pga is going to be FREE for all to see.. yet oh I canâ€™t get it the normal way

No pleasing some people
		
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So looking forwards, this year is clearly a loss leader to get Eleven sports in the public eye. When they charge a subscription for it from next year, for a lesser service ( possibly no trackman (expensive), fewer quality pundits, less viewing of the whole tournament, poor commentary, selected groups only, etc) are you going to be happy?

Or are you going to think that Sky does it better? And that for the same Â£10 weekend pass, it would be cheaper on Sky? May be it will only be available to permanent subscribers like Amazon prime? No option for a one off watch.

Coverage in the US of golf in general is split between stations. Some are terrible at it, some better, but if you listen to NLU podcast, they all wish they could get sky.

And no, its not available for all, it is only available for those with reliable broadband, and that is not as many as you seem to think.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 24, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			So looking forwards, this year is clearly a loss leader to get Eleven sports in the public eye. When they charge a subscription for it from next year, for a lesser service ( possibly no trackman (expensive), fewer quality pundits, less viewing of the whole tournament, poor commentary, selected groups only, etc) are you going to be happy?

Or are you going to think that Sky does it better? And that for the same Â£10 weekend pass, it would be cheaper on Sky? May be it will only be available to permanent subscribers like Amazon prime? No option for a one off watch.

Coverage in the US of golf in general is split between stations. Some are terrible at it, some better, but if you listen to NLU podcast, they all wish they could get sky.

And no, its not available for all, it is only available for those with reliable broadband, and that is not as many as you seem to think.
		
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Streaming is the way forward 

They care for the USA not the uk .. USA has better broadband ..

Itâ€™s not their fault we donâ€™t have great broadband in the outer regions 

But streaming has taken over. Most kids donâ€™t watch â€œnormalâ€ tv

And with greatest respect their trying to grow the game so appeal to the kids .. they wonâ€™t give a stuff if the already golf obsessed canâ€™t view it normally


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2018)

Sweep said:



			It all seems a bit bonkers to me.
I watch golf every week, 2 or sometimes 3 tournaments if they show Champions Tour or LPGA. It makes my Sky subscription worthwhile.
And now, when supposedly the 4th major of the year comes along itâ€™s the one week I wonâ€™t watch any golf. Now I get that it may be streamed if you can find it etc etc but the truth is most (including golf fans like me) wonâ€™t bother.
Clearly trading Sky off for the BBC to take their event to a larger audience backfired massively for the US PGA. Certainly from the outside it would seem that Sky have been loyal broadcasters for the sport. The US PGA didnâ€™t get the same loyalty from the BBC.
I am not sure how you can call it a major when itâ€™s the only golf event you canâ€™t watch on TV. The Trilby Tour gets more coverage.
The US PGA need to sort this and quick or risk losing their major status. Last year was bad, this is even worse. They canâ€™t risk another year.
		
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Why should the BBC show loyalty to the USPGA ? 

None of it is about loyalty from Sky - itâ€™s all about the money , they are looking for contracts out of loyalty to governing bodies they are looking for a monopoly so that people have to subscribe to them to watch the events 

The USPGA wonâ€™t lose their major status - people in the states and Far East will pay the money to watch it again on the steaming sites - the viewing figures over here are tiny in comparison 

Golf just like all the other sports are chasing the money , nothing is done due to anyone being loyal


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## Sweep (Jul 24, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why should the BBC show loyalty to the USPGA ? 

None of it is about loyalty from Sky - itâ€™s all about the money , they are looking for contracts out of loyalty to governing bodies they are looking for a monopoly so that people have to subscribe to them to watch the events 

The USPGA wonâ€™t lose their major status - people in the states and Far East will pay the money to watch it again on the steaming sites - the viewing figures over here are tiny in comparison 

Golf just like all the other sports are chasing the money , nothing is done due to anyone being loyal
		
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The BBC has no obligation to show any loyalty to any sports organisation. I didnâ€™t say it did. Even when under contract the BBC dumped The Open a year early so the US PGA should have seen it coming. My point was that last yearâ€™s initiative has failed for the US PGA. They gave it the BBC and now because the BBC has no loyalty they donâ€™t have a TV broadcaster. Sky on the other hand have demonstrated that they are committed to showing golf and show practically every event every week. Everyone knows they are not doing it for the love of the game. Of course it makes them money. Sky is a business. Businesses aim to make money.

I think we have to consider why every other large golf event every week do a deal with Sky and yet the US PGA donâ€™t.

IMO all this growing the game stuff is actually irrelevant. When golf went through itâ€™s boom period in the 80â€™s there was very little golf on TV. However, if the US PGA gave last yearâ€™s event to the BBC in an effort to grow the game, they now need to explain how not having it on any TV is going to help.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2018)

Sweep said:



			The BBC has no obligation to show any loyalty to any sports organisation. I didnâ€™t say it did. Even when under contract the BBC dumped The Open a year early so the US PGA should have seen it coming. My point was that last yearâ€™s initiative has failed for the US PGA. They gave it the BBC and now because the BBC has no loyalty they donâ€™t have a TV broadcaster. Sky on the other hand have demonstrated that they are committed to showing golf and show practically every event every week. Everyone knows they are not doing it for the love of the game. Of course it makes them money. Sky is a business. Businesses aim to make money.

I think we have to consider why every other large golf event every week do a deal with Sky and yet the US PGA donâ€™t.

IMO all this growing the game stuff is actually irrelevant. When golf went through itâ€™s boom period in the 80â€™s there was very little golf on TV. However, if the US PGA gave last yearâ€™s event to the BBC in an effort to grow the game, they now need to explain how not having it on any TV is going to help.
		
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The USPGA were stuck last year because they had no deal with anyone to show the PGA so they ask the BBC last minute and they did what they could especially with them focused on the World Championships - obviously most didnâ€™t take that into account and expect the BBC to boot the World Championships to the kerb to focus on the Golf but they didnâ€™t so lots went mental at the BBC for the last minute production - it was a one off thing , BBC didnâ€™t then dump it they I expect arenâ€™t going to waste money and effort on in the grand scheme of things a minority sport event. 

Last year wasnâ€™t any â€œinitiativeâ€ it was all because the deal with Sky didnâ€™t get renewed so they needed something quick 

Again not sure why you keep mentioning loyalty when it comes to the media and sports events 

Itâ€™s not about loyalty or commitment etc etc - itâ€™s about budgets , profit and cost 

Sky didnâ€™t show the US PGA because they thought the deal being offered wasnâ€™t value for money 

They have deals to show the golf to gain subscribers- thatâ€™s it. 

They have a deal with the ET , with the R&A , the USGA and the Masters - they wanted the deal with the USPGA to have the monopoly - USPGA wanted more money and Last year for content to go to a wider audience - Sky walked away


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## Dogma (Jul 24, 2018)

I see theyâ€™ve recruited â€˜Seb on Golfâ€™ too to provide a â€˜youthful edgeâ€™

You guys are going to hate him :rofl:

90% of what Iâ€™ve seen of him is pretty much shouting at the camera and pointing at anything and everything!


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## Sweep (Jul 24, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The USPGA were stuck last year because they had no deal with anyone to show the PGA so they ask the BBC last minute and they did what they could especially with them focused on the World Championships - obviously most didnâ€™t take that into account and expect the BBC to boot the World Championships to the kerb to focus on the Golf but they didnâ€™t so lots went mental at the BBC for the last minute production - it was a one off thing , BBC didnâ€™t then dump it they I expect arenâ€™t going to waste money and effort on in the grand scheme of things a minority sport event. 

Last year wasnâ€™t any â€œinitiativeâ€ it was all because the deal with Sky didnâ€™t get renewed so they needed something quick 

Again not sure why you keep mentioning loyalty when it comes to the media and sports events 

Itâ€™s not about loyalty or commitment etc etc - itâ€™s about budgets , profit and cost 

Sky didnâ€™t show the US PGA because they thought the deal being offered wasnâ€™t value for money 

They have deals to show the golf to gain subscribers- thatâ€™s it. 

They have a deal with the ET , with the R&A , the USGA and the Masters - they wanted the deal with the USPGA to have the monopoly - USPGA wanted more money and Last year for content to go to a wider audience - Sky walked away
		
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I am not sure if you read my post or not. My reference to loyalty was in answer to your question to me asking why should the BBC be loyal? It has no need to and it isnâ€™t. Simple.
Last year the US PGA pulled the plug on Sky at the last minute. If you remember, Sky was advertising coverage of all 4 majors when it launched Sky Golf just a month or so before. I donâ€™t know why the deal failed but we have to question why itâ€™s only the US PGA deal that has failed with Sky. Did the US PGA want too much? I seem to remember you and others saying it would be good to give it the BBC as it would teach a wider audience. This year it wonâ€™t be reaching much of an audience at all. That in my view makes the whole thing hard to defend.

These days you canâ€™t claim an event is big if no-one watches.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2018)

Sweep said:



			I am not sure if you read my post or not. My reference to loyalty was in answer to your question to me asking why should the BBC be loyal? It has no need to and it isnâ€™t. Simple.
Last year the US PGA pulled the plug on Sky at the last minute. If you remember, Sky was advertising coverage of all 4 majors when it launched Sky Golf just a month or so before. I donâ€™t know why the deal failed but we have to question why itâ€™s only the US PGA deal that has failed with Sky. Did the US PGA want too much? I seem to remember you and others saying it would be good to give it the BBC as it would teach a wider audience. This year it wonâ€™t be reaching much of an audience at all. That in my view makes the whole thing hard to defend.

These days you canâ€™t claim an event is big if no-one watches.
		
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USPGA didnâ€™t pull the plug 

The deal ran out earlier and they were trying to get a new deal in place but nothing could be arranged so it was offered to the BBC

People are still going to watch it - numbers wonâ€™t be massively affected enough , might even get more people watching it 

And the loyality was in response to this quote

*They gave it the BBC and now because the BBC has no loyalty they donâ€™t have a TV broadcaster. *

It reads like you are suggesting the BBC have walked away from the USPGA because they are not loyal when it was only a one off last year


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2018)

Dogma said:



			I see theyâ€™ve recruited â€˜Seb on Golfâ€™ too to provide a â€˜youthful edgeâ€™

You guys are going to hate him :rofl:

90% of what Iâ€™ve seen of him is pretty much shouting at the camera and pointing at anything and everything!
		
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Seb on Golf ðŸ˜–
Thatâ€™s me not tuning in.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2018)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seb on Golf ðŸ˜–
Thatâ€™s me not tuning in.
		
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Nor me


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## Sweep (Jul 25, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			USPGA didnâ€™t pull the plug 

The deal ran out earlier and they were trying to get a new deal in place but nothing could be arranged so it was offered to the BBC

People are still going to watch it - numbers wonâ€™t be massively affected enough , might even get more people watching it 

And the loyality was in response to this quote

*They gave it the BBC and now because the BBC has no loyalty they donâ€™t have a TV broadcaster. *

It reads like you are suggesting the BBC have walked away from the USPGA because they are not loyal when it was only a one off last year
		
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Maybe you need to read an entire post and not take single sentences in isolation and in doing so make quotes out of context to suit your argument.
Its pretty clear that Sky would most likely have continued to show the event for a number of years. They do for all other golf events. Itâ€™s fact that the BBC didnâ€™t. I made it clear that the BBC has no obligation to show loyalty to any sporting organisation. But it would obviously be better for the US PGA if they had. It would have showcased the event to a larger audience which was touted as the main reason for the the switch to the BBC. Now it will almost certainly have a much smaller audience which equals less interest. If it continues down the same path it will disappear into obscurity.
The sportâ€™s main audience will not see this event and yet we are told itâ€™s the 4th biggest event of the year. How many real golf fans still believe this?
Surely the US PGA have offered it to the other TV sports channels? Eurosport, BT etc. Have they all said no? If so then itâ€™s pretty clear the US PGA is asking too much.
I can see why they would want it streamed, to appeal to the younger or more tech savvy peeps, but I canâ€™t see why they would want it ONLY streamed. TBH I donâ€™t think they do want it only streamed. Otherwise, why bother with the BBC deal last year?
Methinks the US PGA think they have got something bigger than they actually have and if itâ€™s away from the mainstream itâ€™s only going to get smaller. Yes, itâ€™s a championship important to the players, but the Masters or the Open it isnâ€™t.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2018)

Sweep said:



			Maybe you need to read an entire post and not take single sentences in isolation and in doing so make quotes out of context to suit your argument.
Its pretty clear that Sky would most likely have continued to show the event for a number of years. They do for all other golf events. Itâ€™s fact that the BBC didnâ€™t. I made it clear that the BBC has no obligation to show loyalty to any sporting organisation. But it would obviously be better for the US PGA if they had. It would have showcased the event to a larger audience which was touted as the main reason for the the switch to the BBC. Now it will almost certainly have a much smaller audience which equals less interest. If it continues down the same path it will disappear into obscurity.
The sportâ€™s main audience will not see this event and yet we are told itâ€™s the 4th biggest event of the year. How many real golf fans still believe this?
Surely the US PGA have offered it to the other TV sports channels? Eurosport, BT etc. Have they all said no? If so then itâ€™s pretty clear the US PGA is asking too much.
I can see why they would want it streamed, to appeal to the younger or more tech savvy peeps, but I canâ€™t see why they would want it ONLY streamed. TBH I donâ€™t think they do want it only streamed. Otherwise, why bother with the BBC deal last year?
Methinks the US PGA think they have got something bigger than they actually have and if itâ€™s away from the mainstream itâ€™s only going to get smaller. Yes, itâ€™s a championship important to the players, but the Masters or the Open it isnâ€™t.
		
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Ok - 

Last year it was all very last minute 

The deal with Sky had finished and there were negotiations on going to sign a new deal etc etc but it seems the USPGA wanted the deal in the UK to go to a wider audience because I suspect the level of viewing figures for the event would be pretty small in comparison to the other majors - thatâ€™s because itâ€™s just not the event the others are - especially in the UK - The Open and The Masters also interest non golf fans but I also suspect a lot of golf fans in the UK arenâ€™t that bothered by it 

So when it came to getting a deal sorted there was lots of talking about offering it free to air on streaming services whilst still have the coverage on Sky whilst also the price went up - so because of everything Sky and the USPGA couldnâ€™t get a deal 

So they spoke to the BBC about offering it on a one time deal but they couldnâ€™t dedicate much and would have to take full US feed but it would be available on the website streaming etc and I suspect whilst it was very messy you prob had a bit more watching it 

Now all year I suspect the USPGA have been looking for a platform for them to be able to stream it within the UK , the BBC Iâ€™m guessing wouldnâ€™t be willing to pay too much for letâ€™s be honest an event that wonâ€™t reallt pique the national interest and Iâ€™m guessing Sky wonâ€™t be interested in the streaming or the price so they end up with this streaming service 

The events main audience will still see the event - the UK isnâ€™t there main audience by any stretch and I suspect the stream service will be full of adverts and full or marketing. Itâ€™s going to be awful but the money will still be paid to the USPGA 

It appears in the posts you have made a clear dislike should I say towards the BBC - when in all this they are clearly blameless for any of it 

Seems the USPGA want to try something and broaden the horizons and Sky didnâ€™t want that and wanted it kept behind a pay wall where they get the money


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## Papas1982 (Jul 25, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok - 

Last year it was all very last minute 

The deal with Sky had finished and there were negotiations on going to sign a new deal etc etc but it seems the USPGA wanted the deal in the UK to go to a wider audience because I suspect the level of viewing figures for the event would be pretty small in comparison to the other majors - thatâ€™s because itâ€™s just not the event the others are - especially in the UK - The Open and The Masters also interest non golf fans but I also suspect a lot of golf fans in the UK arenâ€™t that bothered by it 

So when it came to getting a deal sorted there was lots of talking about offering it free to air on streaming services whilst still have the coverage on Sky whilst also the price went up - so because of everything Sky and the USPGA couldnâ€™t get a deal 

So they spoke to the BBC about offering it on a one time deal but they couldnâ€™t dedicate much and would have to take full US feed but it would be available on the website streaming etc and I suspect whilst it was very messy you prob had a bit more watching it 

Now all year I suspect the USPGA have been looking for a platform for them to be able to stream it within the UK , the BBC Iâ€™m guessing wouldnâ€™t be willing to pay too much for letâ€™s be honest an event that wonâ€™t reallt pique the national interest and Iâ€™m guessing Sky wonâ€™t be interested in the streaming or the price so they end up with this streaming service 

The events main audience will still see the event - the UK isnâ€™t there main audience by any stretch and I suspect the stream service will be full of adverts and full or marketing. Itâ€™s going to be awful but the money will still be paid to the USPGA 

*It appears in the posts you have made a clear dislike should I say towards the BBC* - when in all this they are clearly blameless for any of it 

Seems the USPGA want to try something and *broaden the horizons and* *Sky didnâ€™t want that and wanted it kept behind a pay wall where they get the money*

Click to expand...

You say tomato.......

Have i missed the bit where Eleven sports is free? I know the first to days will be on fb and in theory you could take out a trial for it, but they are still a streaming site that want to get money from you.

I agree re the rest, i think BBC whilst not doing a great job last year, did the best they could at short notice.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 25, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			You say tomato.......

Have i missed the bit where Eleven sports is free? I know the first to days will be on fb and in theory you could take out a trial for it, but they are still a streaming site that want to get money from you.

I agree re the rest, i think BBC whilst not doing a great job last year, did the best they could at short notice.
		
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first 2 days are free for all and they are offering a 7  day free trail to allow people to watch


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			You say tomato.......

Have i missed the bit where Eleven sports is free? I know the first to days will be on fb and in theory you could take out a trial for it, but they are still a streaming site that want to get money from you.

I agree re the rest, i think BBC whilst not doing a great job last year, did the best they could at short notice.
		
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You can register for a 7 day free trial - a bit like Netflix so you can watch the event then cancel , itâ€™s all new and I suspect people will be seeing how it goes but I think will need to find a way for it to be an app that can be used on a fire stick maybe 

But I see it as being the start of more sports events being streamed , boxing matches , then music events - just needs someone to start it off and get it right


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## Papas1982 (Jul 25, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can register for a 7 day free trial - a bit like Netflix so you can watch the event then cancel , itâ€™s all new and I suspect people will be seeing how it goes but I think will need to find a way for it to be an app that can be used on a fire stick maybe 

But I see it as being the start of more sports events being streamed , boxing matches , then music events - just needs someone to start it off and get it right
		
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They have an app, or at least will do when it comes to the time of the golf according to the press release online. 

Tbf now tv and Bt already offers sport via streaming. But I agree there may be a place for a company to come in for stand alone events and try and buy outright events from under the big companies noses. Unless they offer free trials or low prices though then they may struggle or have to take big risks with what theyâ€™re willing to pay for the rights.


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## r0wly86 (Jul 25, 2018)

I am a little surprised about the negativity.

Especially about internet connection, I know you may not have fibre optic speeds. But even at my parents house, in deepest darkest rural Devon, where their house is over 1 mile from the closest exchange, and half way up a massive valley. The internet is absolute pants, yet I managed to stream the Rugby Premiership final on BT sports app and chromecast onto the television in pretty much HD.

Most smart TVs also have Facebook pre installed, for the hassle of signing up for free to a new broadcaster you can watch all 4 days of a major, seems like a great deal for us.

Also whoever said streaming is for kids, really? SO only kids watch Netflix, Amazon Prime etc and even catch up TV is streaming, if you have watched iPlayer of All4 you have streamed TV. This is the same albeit live


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 25, 2018)

ElevenSports hope to launch 2 Channels in August, one channel is dedicated to Football, they have secured rights for 3 years to show live games from Serie A and La Liga) channel 2 is for other sports.
So the USPGA being shown for free is the hook, but at the end of the day it is further dilution of sports channels and yet another fee if you wish to watch all sports.
Some will be happy and prefer payg, some prefer one price, one provider.
Others will go down the illegal stream route and everyone loses out.


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## Orikoru (Jul 25, 2018)

Dogma said:



			I see theyâ€™ve recruited â€˜Seb on Golfâ€™ too to provide a â€˜youthful edgeâ€™

You guys are going to hate him :rofl:

90% of what Iâ€™ve seen of him is pretty much shouting at the camera and pointing at anything and everything!
		
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I don't know who or what that is so I will reserve judgement...




pauldj42 said:



			ElevenSports hope to launch 2 Channels in August, one channel is dedicated to Football, they have secured rights for 3 years to show live games from Serie A and La Liga) channel 2 is for other sports.
So the USPGA being shown for free is the hook, but at the end of the day it is further dilution of sports channels and yet another fee if you wish to watch all sports.
Some will be happy and prefer payg, some prefer one price, one provider.
Others will go down the illegal stream route and everyone loses out.
		
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I don't think it will last long. Could go the same way as Setanta and other now-defunct sports channels that came and went. At the end of the day Sky always wins through.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 25, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I don't know who or what that is so I will reserve judgement...



I don't think it will last long. Could go the same way as Setanta and other now-defunct sports channels that came and went. At the end of the day Sky always wins through.
		
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everyone said that about BT but their still here

although wish they had gone for the golf

seb is alright.. just another youtuber


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## Papas1982 (Jul 25, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			everyone said that about BT but their still here

although wish they had gone for the golf

seb is alright.. just another youtuber
		
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BT had a lot of money behind em and bought premium product as well as well known hosts for their shows. I think 11 will be ok as they are international and now trying the uk. 

Re Seb, Iâ€™ll be muting him. Of all the golf you tubers heâ€™s the worst imo. Heâ€™s an entertainer who basically jumped on golf as there was a gao their. But basically made it off heâ€™s bros success and has blagged a career imo.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 25, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			BT had a lot of money behind em and bought premium product as well as well known hosts for their shows. I think 11 will be ok as they are international and now trying the uk. 

Re Seb, Iâ€™ll be muting him. Of all the golf you tubers heâ€™s the worst imo. Heâ€™s an entertainer who basically jumped on golf as there was a gao their. But basically made it off heâ€™s bros success and has blagged a career imo.
		
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makes sense.. an entertainer .. least they didnt get sheils in.. dont mind the rest of them their entertaining i just find sheils quite flat in the delivery of anything


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## Papas1982 (Jul 25, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			makes sense.. an entertainer .. least they didnt get sheils in.. dont mind the rest of them their entertaining i just find sheils quite flat in the delivery of anything
		
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I think Shiels has some real good ideas and content. But heâ€™s not the front man. Heâ€™s Noel or Barlow.....

hes certainly come come a long way since hitting 400 yard drives every week at the Trafford centre on juiced up trackman lol


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## USER1999 (Jul 25, 2018)

So all this youtube channel getting hip with the kids stuff is where the USPGA want to go with this? 

Fine. I am 50 odd, played golf all my life, and I am out. I cannot be bothered with faffing about trying to stream something with rubbish broad band, on a piddly screen. I could spend 30 odd on a chrome cast, but heck, that is 3Ã— what a now tv pass would be. Next year who knows how much it will be to stream it.

Stuff them. I will watch something else. In HD. On telly.


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## Sweep (Jul 25, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok - 

The events main audience will still see the event - the UK isnâ€™t there main audience by any stretch and I suspect the stream service will be full of adverts and full or marketing. Itâ€™s going to be awful but the money will still be paid to the USPGA 

It appears in the posts you have made a clear dislike should I say towards the BBC - when in all this they are clearly blameless for any of it 

Seems the USPGA want to try something and broaden the horizons and Sky didnâ€™t want that and wanted it kept behind a pay wall where they get the money
		
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I donâ€™t have any dislike of the BBC. I just donâ€™t think they are the right broadcaster for golf and they have proved me right. As you say, they have other priorities and at least they made an attempt at showing the USPGA last year. I donâ€™t blame the BBC.

I still donâ€™t understand why it was all so last minute last year. It all seems very disorganised and this year itâ€™s streaming only. This cannot be considered the best platform for the USPGAâ€™s main event.

I think you underestimate the importance of the UK audience. We are a major part of the global golf fan base. You only have to look at the number of courses here compared to other countries across the world. I believe this is a market that cannot be ignored by the USPGA but, if it isnâ€™t important to them why should we care? However. if that thinking prevails how long will their comp be considered a major?

Other than that I agree with everything in your post.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2018)

Sweep said:



			I donâ€™t have any dislike of the BBC. I just donâ€™t think they are the right broadcaster for golf and they have proved me right. As you say, they have other priorities and at least they made an attempt at showing the USPGA last year. I donâ€™t blame the BBC.

I still donâ€™t understand why it was all so last minute last year. It all seems very disorganised and this year itâ€™s streaming only. This cannot be considered the best platform for the USPGAâ€™s main event.

I think you underestimate the importance of the UK audience. We are a major part of the global golf fan base. You only have to look at the number of courses here compared to other countries across the world. I believe this is a market that cannot be ignored by the USPGA but, if it isnâ€™t important to them why should we care? However. if that thinking prevails how long will their comp be considered a major?

Other than that I agree with everything in your post.
		
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BBC are showing the European Team Golf , their Highlight packages gain more viewers than Skys live coverage. They can cover golf very well - it just wouldnt have a dedicated channel , nor and Open zone and it wouldnt fill hours of "on the range" - but they would just show the golf - nice and simple. BBC can only work within their budget but when they do and given time they do it very well. Their coverage of Saturday and Sunday at Augusta is just perfect

The UK audience is very small now - before The Open went to Sky the viewing figures were hitting 5 mil , on Sky they got just over a mil. I suspect the US PGA was prob watched by a significant amount less than watch the Open - if its gets more than 400 thousand ill be surprised - even a lot of golf fans cant be bothered with it.

So i suspect the impact of it not being on Sky wont be that much at all and you may get a younger audience with it being on App's and streaming


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## USER1999 (Jul 25, 2018)

I guess we will find out what the streaming audience will be. My guess is their target audience will be in bed. TV coverage of a major is not going to get kids interested in golf, how ever trendy the presenters.
Pro am, with celebs off big brother, may be, but watching Zach take 5 hours to bore it out to a win? Nah. It wont hold their attention for 5 minutes.
Back when I was a kid, I watched the open on BBC1. Why? Because there were only 3 TV channels. Now there are 1000, plus streaming, plus facebook, plus WhatsApp etc. 
If kids play golf, it is because a familly member, or a friend with a familly member play. It isn't because they saw a pro comp on telly. Or where ever.
The fastest way to promote golf, is to find a way to get more ladies into the game, and find a way to target 40 somethings who can no longer play footy.
This is not going to happen from streaming the dullest major on a minority sports web site.


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## SammmeBee (Jul 25, 2018)

Sweep said:



			I think you underestimate the importance of the UK audience.
		
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Really?!  How many people do you think watch golf on telly each week in the UK?


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## Sweep (Jul 26, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			BBC are showing the European Team Golf , their Highlight packages gain more viewers than Skys live coverage. They can cover golf very well - it just wouldnt have a dedicated channel , nor and Open zone and it wouldnt fill hours of "on the range" - but they would just show the golf - nice and simple. BBC can only work within their budget but when they do and given time they do it very well. Their coverage of Saturday and Sunday at Augusta is just perfect

The UK audience is very small now - before The Open went to Sky the viewing figures were hitting 5 mil , on Sky they got just over a mil. I suspect the US PGA was prob watched by a significant amount less than watch the Open - if its gets more than 400 thousand ill be surprised - even a lot of golf fans cant be bothered with it.

So i suspect the impact of it not being on Sky wont be that much at all and you may get a younger audience with it being on App's and streaming
		
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BBC as a â€œfreeâ€ terrestrial channel will always get more viewers than Sky who only attract dedicated sports fans prepared to pay to watch their sport.
The BBCâ€™s coverage of golf events is very simple. But the world has moved on. I am really not sure what the â€œKen on the Courseâ€ Postman Pat style graphics with accompanying cartoon music at the Open was all about though. However, credit where credit is due, at least they dumped Spoony, Chris Evans and all the other celebs this time, probably because their salaries are now published and the licence fee payers are non too chuffed.
In my view their Masterâ€™s coverage is far from perfect but that is subjective.
You seem to agree with me that the USPGA donâ€™t have much to sell. A major that even golf fans arenâ€™t interested in. So whether itâ€™s on Sky, BBC, Channel 4, Dave or any of the streaming sites, it wonâ€™t make much difference. However, for the USPGA they clearly need to raise the profile of their event. And it not being on the telly is not going to help in that regard.


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## Sweep (Jul 26, 2018)

SammmeBee said:



			Really?!  How many people do you think watch golf on telly each week in the UK?
		
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Proportionally more than most countries in the world.


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			So all this youtube channel getting hip with the kids stuff is where the USPGA want to go with this? 

Fine. I am 50 odd, played golf all my life, and I am out. I cannot be bothered with faffing about trying to stream something with rubbish broad band, on a piddly screen. I could spend 30 odd on a chrome cast, but heck, that is 3Ã— what a now tv pass would be. Next year who knows how much it will be to stream it.

Stuff them. I will watch something else. In HD. On telly.
		
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You keep going on about your rubbish broadband - I don't know how you can live like that. If I lived somewhere where I couldn't get a decent internet connection, I would move! 

Look on the bright side, at least it's only the USPGA and not the Open or the Masters or something.


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## USER1999 (Jul 26, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			You keep going on about your rubbish broadband - I don't know how you can live like that. If I lived somewhere where I couldn't get a decent internet connection, I would move! 

Look on the bright side, at least it's only the USPGA and not the Open or the Masters or something.
		
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So for me, the only time I have ever wanted to stream something live has been last years pga. I have lived in my house for 20 years, and have a lot invested in it.
I have only ever down loaded one series, game of thrones, and the speed of download was irrelevant, as I didn't watch it for weeks.
I watch all my sport live, and that is pretty much all I ever watch.

I am not going to move house soley to watch the 4th major!


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## Orikoru (Jul 26, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			So for me, the only time I have ever wanted to stream something live has been last years pga. I have lived in my house for 20 years, and have a lot invested in it.
I have only ever down loaded one series, game of thrones, and the speed of download was irrelevant, as I didn't watch it for weeks.
I watch all my sport live, and that is pretty much all I ever watch.

I am not going to move house soley to watch the 4th major!
		
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Haha. I was just joshing, we clearly lead different lives. I had to get a good quality broadband in order to play Fifa online without it lagging painfully. Plus I don't pay for any TV service, we just have freeview, so I have to stream a lot of what we watch anyway - Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.


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## woofers (Jul 26, 2018)

With a bit of luck the lack of mainstream TV coverage will hasten this events demise as a 'major'. It's certainly not one I have felt any desire for. Let's face it, it doesn't have USP or identity - how many of it's past winners can you say have gone onto to be 'greats', how many of it's past winners can you name with the year they won it, as compared to the Open, US Open and Masters.
No, I shan't be losing any sleep over this not being covered on TV, and doubt that I really care who wins it.


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## JamesR (Jul 26, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			So all this youtube channel getting hip with the kids stuff is where the USPGA want to go with this? 

Fine. I am 50 odd, played golf all my life, and I am out. I cannot be bothered with faffing about trying to stream something with rubbish broad band, on a piddly screen. I could spend 30 odd on a chrome cast, but heck, that is 3Ã— what a now tv pass would be. Next year who knows how much it will be to stream it.

Stuff them. I will watch something else. In HD. On telly.
		
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Same here (except Iâ€™m 30 odd)


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## IainP (Jul 26, 2018)

woofers said:



			.
 - how many of it's past winners can you say have gone onto to be 'greats'...
		
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May be few in this list
https://www.topendsports.com/events/golf-majors/pga/winners.htm

Generally agree with the overall sentiment of the post though.

There was a time when the us pga always seemed to have a field highest ranked in world rankings, don't know if that is still the case though.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 27, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			So all this youtube channel getting hip with the kids stuff is where the USPGA want to go with this? 

Fine. I am 50 odd, played golf all my life, and I am out. I cannot be bothered with faffing about trying to stream something with rubbish broad band, on a piddly screen. I could spend 30 odd on a chrome cast, but heck, that is 3Ã— what a now tv pass would be. Next year who knows how much it will be to stream it.

Stuff them. I will watch something else. In HD. On telly.
		
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Your out are you? Right your going to sell your clubs and quit the game? Ofc not.. so it doesnâ€™t affect PlayIng numbers 

Itâ€™s the US pga .. the key is the first two letters itâ€™s not the uk. They donâ€™t care about our numbers they care about the USA thatâ€™s it. Their target Audience wonâ€™t be in bed because it will be like us watching the open!!!


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## USER1999 (Jul 27, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			Your out are you? Right your going to sell your clubs and quit the game? Ofc not.. so it doesnâ€™t affect PlayIng numbers 

Itâ€™s the US pga .. the key is the first two letters itâ€™s not the uk. They donâ€™t care about our numbers they care about the USA thatâ€™s it. Their target Audience wonâ€™t be in bed because it will be like us watching the open!!!
		
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I am their target market, as I think the golf is shown live on US tv in the states. This streaming nonsense is just for the UK and EIRE.


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## Garush34 (Jul 27, 2018)

pauljames87 said:



			Your out are you? Right your going to sell your clubs and quit the game? Ofc not.. so it doesnâ€™t affect PlayIng numbers 

Itâ€™s the US pga .. the key is the first two letters itâ€™s not the uk. They donâ€™t care about our numbers they care about the USA thatâ€™s it. Their target Audience wonâ€™t be in bed because it will be like us watching the open!!!
		
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Surely if they are not bothered about our numbers they would have been able to do a deal with sky as previously done, surely it's hassle for them to chop and change every year for something there not bothered about. 

They may not be bothered about numbers but once they realize that the numbers they do get are going to be greatly reduced then it's not worth the hassle. I will watch this year because its free via a trail, but if it goes to subscription every year for something i don't already subscribe to then I won't bother. And I would say at age 27, I am close to their target audience.


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## pauljames87 (Jul 27, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			I am their target market, as I think the golf is shown live on US tv in the states. This streaming nonsense is just for the UK and EIRE.
		
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So their target market will be watching it in the USA .. just fine.. again they donâ€™t care about the uk market. If they werenâ€™t happy about it they would just lower their price to sky


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## SammmeBee (Jul 27, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			I am their target market, as I think the golf is shown live on US tv in the states. This streaming nonsense is just for the UK and EIRE.
		
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For the other 59,999 like you who watch it when it is on you mean.  Youâ€™re obviously not their target market as you donâ€™t really want to watch it!!!!


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