# The Ashes 2017/18



## Jates12 (Nov 21, 2017)

2 Days until the Ashes starts and not a thread posted as of yet so thought i'd get the ball rolling! 

Lots of mouth already from the Aussies, mainly from Nathan Lyon and Matty Hayden, talking about ending careers and not knowing who most of the england squad are.

Impressed that the same hasnt been coming from our camp considering I genuinely do not know who some of the aussie squad are. Hoping that we can do a job on them because the debacle of 4 years ago needs avenging and i feel like we can really punish them on home soil. 

Stokes will be missed massively as last time out he was the only one, imho, that had a decent series or even stood up to be counted.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2017)

It's going to be a tough one to follow, for me, due to the time zone and coverage only on BT. It could be a tour that just passes me by, particularly if we are getting stuffed .

I heard a few ex pros saying how important the test at Brisbane is. It will set the tone for the whole tour. England need to hold on as best they can.


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## Jates12 (Nov 21, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It's going to be a tough one to follow, for me, due to the time zone and coverage only on BT. It could be a tour that just passes me by, particularly if we are getting stuffed .

I heard a few ex pros saying how important the test at Brisbane is. It will set the tone for the whole tour. England need to hold on as best they can.
		
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I dont think its a case of holding on mate, i think we have a decent enough side compared to theirs. We just need to build innings rather than getting after it early doors. Stoneman is going to be tested by hazelwood and starc (I think cummins is pretty bonk if im honest) but if he digs in there is good runs to be scored on quick outfields down under. Its all about how long we can bat for, i think we have the bowling to knock them over its just about getting runs on the board.


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## Crazyface (Nov 21, 2017)

Pretty bonk? Is that good or bad. Sorry I'm not up to date with current word usage.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 21, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			I dont think its a case of holding on mate, i think we have a decent enough side compared to theirs. We just need to build innings rather than getting after it early doors. Stoneman is going to be tested by hazelwood and starc (I think cummins is pretty bonk if im honest) but if he digs in there is good runs to be scored on quick outfields down under. Its all about how long we can bat for, i think we have the bowling to knock them over its just about getting runs on the board.
		
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I think that it is a great summing up. We have not been great at batting time recently though. They need to that 1st test.


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## Piece (Nov 21, 2017)

Stoneman has played a decent amount of Aussie grade cricket. He should be used to quick, slippery pitches. Hopefully.

We are probably a slightly better side on paper, yet playing away we are slight underdogs. I think the louder the Aussies talk the more they are covering up their deficiencies. 

Get a draw or a win at the GABBA and we are on!

Hopefully Lyon will get 0-215


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## Tongo (Nov 21, 2017)

Hayden's comments are pretty lame considering he is supposed to be a pundit. 

The Aussie chat is so predictable that it is just boring now. I fear that the actual cricket is not going to match the hype and the series turns into something akin to a pantomime.


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## patricks148 (Nov 21, 2017)

TBH batting i think the sides  are pretty even, they have it when it comes to pace bowling though, i think Stokes is the big loss.

a tight series with who ever has the least batting collapses winning the series


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## Dan2501 (Nov 21, 2017)

Team the Aussies have picked is really weird. Tim Paine keeping wicket despite not keeping wicket domestically for years since his injury, dropping Renshaw because some high profile former players slagged him off in the press, directors announcing a focus on bringing youth through and then picking Shaun Marsh again. Don't think they're in a much better position than us really, I could see us pulling off a win if the top order click, Stokes is a huge loss though.


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## Junior (Nov 21, 2017)

The trash talking (especially from Lyon) is typically Ozzie and boring.   I'm glad we're rising above it.  I think the Ozzie attack is better than ours, and as much as it pains me to say it, Hazlewood, Starc and Lyon are class.  Lyon in particular has developed into a world class test spinner.  I think it will be a very close contest.   We need Anderson and Broad to step up big time.


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## fundy (Nov 21, 2017)

The worst top 6s to contest the Ashes for quite a while, both sides have 2 good batters and 4 others in their top 6! England have better depth in the middle order (even with Stokes missing), their quick bowling looks to have more cutting edge to it, little to choose between the off spinner on each side (Lyon may have the edge on home decks)

Definite concerns about some of the England batters against the short ball if they can manage to produce some fast bouncy pitches (not guaranteed), Root, Bairstow and Ali all got questions to answer here

Aussies rightly favourites but not sure Id be trashing the oppo side pre-series when my side includes Paine and Marsh. Looks even closer if theres any truth in the Warner injury news too


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## User62651 (Nov 21, 2017)

Go England, Aussies really are insufferable when it comes to sport. They've lost 4 of the last 5 Ashes, probably desperate.


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## richart (Nov 21, 2017)

fundy said:



			The worst top 6s to contest the Ashes for quite a while, both sides have 2 good batters and 4 others in their top 6! England have better depth in the middle order (even with Stokes missing), their quick bowling looks to have more cutting edge to it, little to choose between the off spinner on each side (Lyon may have the edge on home decks)

Definite concerns about some of the England batters against the short ball if they can manage to produce some fast bouncy pitches (not guaranteed), Root, Bairstow and Ali all got questions to answer here

Aussies rightly favourites but not sure Id be trashing the oppo side pre-series when my side includes Paine and Marsh. Looks even closer if theres any truth in the Warner injury news too
		
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 At least the England batsmen have got some runs leading into the test matches. Stoneman looks good at the top.

Worried about how we are going to bowl them out. Don't think there will be many green tops.:mmm: Hard and bouncy will suit their pace men, and Lyon is a much better bowler, especially in Oz, that a lot seem to think. Not far short of 300 wickets in 70 odd tests. Could be some tight games, and we need to get off to a good start to put pressure on Aussies.


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## patricks148 (Nov 21, 2017)

i wouldn't put much store by what any Aussie predictions... remember Mcgrath, and his 5 nil predictions for every series.


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## Piece (Nov 21, 2017)

I did have a giggle at the Twitter exchange between The Big Cheese and Mitch!


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## davemc1 (Nov 21, 2017)

Im not gonna sign up for 12 month's BT (we have sky) so what's the alternative for viewing? 

Now tv, streaming sites... any ideas welcome :thup:


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## Junior (Nov 22, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Im not gonna sign up for 12 month's BT (we have sky) so what's the alternative for viewing? 

Now tv, streaming sites... any ideas welcome :thup:
		
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Not sure.  I'll be relying on the Channel 5 highlights most days.  It's the Friday and Saturday night that i'll look for a streaming site as they're the only days I'd stay up to watch......I need my beauty sleep


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## fundy (Nov 22, 2017)

davemc1 said:



			Im not gonna sign up for 12 month's BT (we have sky) so what's the alternative for viewing? 

Now tv, streaming sites... any ideas welcome :thup:
		
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know anyone who has bt sport and borrow their log in to watch on pc/tablet etc?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 22, 2017)

Junior said:



			Not sure.  I'll be relying on the Channel 5 highlights most days.  It's the Friday and Saturday night that i'll look for a streaming site as they're the only days I'd stay up to watch......I need my beauty sleep 

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Still catching up on that?


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2017)

Iâ€™ve just had my 1st bet of the series and it probably wonâ€™t be my last neither.

Cook Top English batsmen 1st innings @100/30


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Iâ€™ve just had my 1st bet of the series and it probably wonâ€™t be my last neither.

Cook Top English batsmen 1st innings @100/30
		
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not even 10 minutes in and ive had more than i can take from vaughan

so far he thinks england will be aiming to get a draw or a win from the game, that australias best bowler is likely to have a part to play and england will be happy if they havent lost a wicket at lunch #insightful


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Iâ€™ve just had my 1st bet of the series and it probably wonâ€™t be my last neither.

Cook Top English batsmen 1st innings @100/30
		
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what you bokking next


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			not even 10 minutes in and ive had more than i can take from vaughan

so far he thinks england will be aiming to get a draw or a win from the game, that australias best bowler is likely to have a part to play and england will be happy if they havent lost a wicket at lunch #insightful
		
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FFS thatâ€™s my record 12minutes it lasted :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			what you bokking next 

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Iâ€™m off to bed


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Iâ€™m off to bed

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take some vince u28.5 before you do


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## fundy (Nov 23, 2017)

really flat pitch, no pace and little movement, should be a good toss to win and would hope england can post a decent total on this, pitch may speed up a little on days 2/3 hopefully as it dries a bit


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## 2blue (Nov 23, 2017)

Rain at lunch....  well whoâ€™d have thought that??


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 23, 2017)

Second wicket just down, now tea. I think theyâ€™ve done pretty well so far, keeping the Aussies working for it.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 23, 2017)

fundy said:



			take some vince u28.5 before you do 

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Thankfully I never


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## User2021 (Nov 23, 2017)

Important last hour, donâ€™t throw away the promising start.


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## Don Barzini (Nov 23, 2017)

All in all we probably have to be pretty satisfied with the first day. Shame to lose those last two wickets, but we're the best part of 200/4. We'd probably have taken that at the outset. 

Good to see decent performances by Stoneman and Root. Gives a bit of hope for the series, considering everyone was going on about how our top order would simply be blown away.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 23, 2017)

I presume you meant Stoneman and Vince. Agreed though. Those two needed scores to settle themselves for the tour and they did that. Their confidence will be up now. Hopefully Malan can go on now and that will give him a boost as well. Shame to lose Root as we need to be topping 400 tomorrow.

The reports I saw this morning seemed to suggest the pitch will get faster and runs will come quicker. Is that how others see it?


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## User2021 (Nov 23, 2017)

The pitch was relaid after an Adele concert I think earlier in the year.
There was a shield or state match a few weeks ago and their was a fair amount of bounce.
By day four I would say it will be quicker.


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## Don Barzini (Nov 23, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I presume you meant Stoneman and Vince.
		
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D'oh!  Yes, I meant Vince.


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## 2blue (Nov 23, 2017)

It's gonna be a gripping am session tonight... a must-watch!! I'll certainly be there till lunch & should have a good idea by then who's in charge of this important Test...  & hopefully not those 'under-arm' bowling gob-s***s


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## OnTour (Nov 23, 2017)

big turn already, it's going to be a bunson burner by day 3. The beard to be feared 10 wickets easy


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## Don Barzini (Nov 23, 2017)

Right so I was annoyed to learn earlier that Sky havenâ€™t got the Ashes. (Bit of googling suggests this was announced a while ago so Iâ€™m obviously behind the times). But I flicked onto Channel 5 this evening expecting to find some highlights. No sign of any. 

So.....can I see absolutely no Ashes coverage whatsoever this winter (even highlights) unless I have BT Sport?!?! (Which I donâ€™t)


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2017)

Decent performance by England after Cook's cheap exit. I think they need a big first hour without any more wickets. If they can make 300+ it'll be a great platform and hopefully the pacier pitch will help.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 23, 2017)

Don Barzini said:



			Right so I was annoyed to learn earlier that Sky havenâ€™t got the Ashes. (Bit of googling suggests this was announced a while ago so Iâ€™m obviously behind the times). But I flicked onto Channel 5 this evening expecting to find some highlights. No sign of any. 

So.....can I see absolutely no Ashes coverage whatsoever this winter (even highlights) unless I have BT Sport?!?! (Which I donâ€™t)
		
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Unless you can find a dodgy stream, then yes:angry: However if you are an EE customer you can get three months BT free on their app, OK if you don't mind watching it on a phone/tablet


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## Wilson (Nov 23, 2017)

Don Barzini said:



			Right so I was annoyed to learn earlier that Sky havenâ€™t got the Ashes. (Bit of googling suggests this was announced a while ago so Iâ€™m obviously behind the times). But I flicked onto Channel 5 this evening expecting to find some highlights. No sign of any. 

So.....can I see absolutely no Ashes coverage whatsoever this winter (even highlights) unless I have BT Sport?!?! (Which I donâ€™t)
		
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If you have BT Broadband, you can get it free - I had to renew my broadband contract in a month, but did it last night and saved Â£10 a month, as well as getting the Cricket.


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## jammag (Nov 24, 2017)

BT bought the live rights and highlights rights from cricket Australia. Seen a lot of people hammering the ECB about this but they have zero say in the matter. 

I believe if you have the BT sport app or go on their website you can see some highlights on there. 

Good start by England here. If they can get rid of smith then you really feel you can roll the rest of the team over.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2017)

When will England learn? Losing 6 wickets for 50 runs is shocking.

Lets hope our bowlers can make a difference.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 24, 2017)

I thnk the England boys are doing ok, reasonable first innnings score, and then had the Aussies on the ropes at 76-4. Admittedly at stumps the Aussies had fought back and not lost any further wickets, but it leaves the game very nicely poised.

I think BT Sport are doing a fine job, and giving it back to Sky what Sky did to the rest of us a few years ago. Of course I would rather it be on free to air, but Sky launched this ship years ago so tough luck on them when they are beaten at their own game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2017)

Pretty decent day - on a ground where the Aussies are near unbeatable England still have a good lead going into day 3 , one more wicket would have been perfect but hopefully got one early then into the tail. Still getting a draw is a great result


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## Don Barzini (Nov 24, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I think BT Sport are doing a fine job, and giving it back to Sky what Sky did to the rest of us a few years ago. Of course I would rather it be on free to air, but Sky launched this ship years ago so tough luck on them when they are beaten at their own game.
		
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I can't disagree with that general point of view. But at least when it was on Sky, you could view highlights on terrestrial TV at the end of the day. (Channel 5) As things are now, as far as I can see, you literally cannot see any highlights anywhere else other than BT Sport.

Annoyingly I'm in a contract for my landline phone and Broadband through other companies, so I have no real options to get BT Sport unless I pay the (ridiculous) fees through Sky only. It wouldn't be worth it for me to pay those fees, since I wouldn't be getting up in the night to watch it. I'd just be happy with some daily highlights!

But on the cricket itself, reasonable day for England. Annoying that the convicts steadied their ship towards the end of the day though. Would be nice if we could have struck some late blows.


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## User2021 (Nov 24, 2017)

Think we have to be happy with that.
Would have been nice to have got Smith and ripped through them.

Hopefully a good first hour tonight.

Its nicely poised.


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## patricks148 (Nov 24, 2017)

Before Sky no one showed away tests at all. its all very well nicking the Ashes, but what about.. the other away tests, are BT also going to be showing, Bangladesh, New Zealand or the WI for instance???


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## GB72 (Nov 24, 2017)

Thank cricket may be there next target. They are now the go to station for rugby so adding more cricket may be the next step. Maybe Sky has been too focused on football and has taken their eye off the ball with some other sports.


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## jammag (Nov 24, 2017)

BT have bought all the rights to Australia home games. Each nation sells there own rights. This is how they have got the ashes and no other England games. During the summer BT was showing Australia v South Africa. 

I am quite enjoying BT taking lots of sports away from sky. It makes you wonder what they may go for next.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 24, 2017)

jammag said:



			BT have bought all the rights to Australia home games. Each nation sells there own rights. This is how they have got the ashes and no other England games. During the summer BT was showing Australia v South Africa. 

I am quite enjoying BT taking lots of sports away from sky. It makes you wonder what they may go for next.
		
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Read somewhere they have next years Masters......


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## Stuart_C (Nov 24, 2017)

jammag said:



			BT have bought all the rights to Australia home games. Each nation sells there own rights. This is how they have got the ashes and no other England games. During the summer BT was showing Australia v South Africa. 

I am quite enjoying BT taking lots of sports away from sky. It makes you wonder what they may go for next.
		
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The only downside is the extra monthly cost for BT sports, I canâ€™t see Skysports dropping their prices when theyâ€™re offering less live coverage of certain sports.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2017)

Need an early wicket as that Aussie tail looks quite long. If we can take a 40-50 run lead into the second innings and can push on we must have a chance


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## fundy (Nov 25, 2017)

excellent morning from England so far, some good plans well executed, need to finish them off then look to post 300+


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## ScienceBoy (Nov 25, 2017)

Can someone explain how it this game works, I have no idea.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 25, 2017)

fundy said:



			excellent morning from England so far, some good plans well executed, need to finish them off then look to post 300+
		
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And all the good work rapidly being undone. Never mind 300, 30's looking a struggle at the moment :angry:


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 25, 2017)

And trying to throw away a place in the Rugby League World Cup Final.  It's really going well down under. :angry:


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## User2021 (Nov 25, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			And trying to throw away a place in the Rugby League World Cup Final.  It's really going well down under. :angry:
		
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Scraped in


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## Don Barzini (Nov 25, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			And all the good work rapidly being undone. Never mind 300, 30's looking a struggle at the moment :angry:
		
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Frustrating isnâ€™t it? Seems like itâ€™s same old England again. Iâ€™d dared to hope for the first two days that weâ€™d get something from this test. My hopes are rapidly deteriorating.


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## jammag (Nov 25, 2017)

Very frustrating day for England although credit to them for it wiltering and being 4-5 down over night. Really need a 250 lead to make us competitive on the final day. Hopefully someone puts there hand up tomorrow and bats all day. 

Think it's starting to show how our team lacks pace and a proper spinner. Stokes or wood could've ben ideal on this wicket bowling 90mph. Ali doesn't look quite right to me and I noticed lots of tape on his spinning hand which can't help him. Maybe should've played crane or had another spinner with them in the squad.


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## User2021 (Nov 25, 2017)

jammag said:



			Very frustrating day for England although credit to them for it wiltering and being 4-5 down over night. Really need a 250 lead to make us competitive on the final day. Hopefully someone puts there hand up tomorrow and bats all day.
		
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Hopefully Rooooot


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## User62651 (Nov 25, 2017)

Watched some live till 1am last night, just saw the Marsh wicket, thought England would get the rest out quicker than they did, then losing 2 wickets early and the Ozzie fast bowlers mixing it up I make Australia slight favourites now, a mini collapse by England's mid order wouldn't surprise me but even if they do with Anderson and Broad England could easily knock Australia over cheaply in 2nd innings, nicely poised. With only 2 days left though you've got to wonder if they'll run out of time, run rates are very slow and batters playing very defensively. Rather not lose than win for the 1st test may be the thinking on both sides. Test cricket is still the best form imo, you need patience and its like a cagey chess match but intriguing nonetheless.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 25, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Watched some live till 1am last night, just saw the Marsh wicket, thought England would get the rest out quicker than they did, then losing 2 wickets early and the Ozzie fast bowlers mixing it up I make Australia slight favourites now, a mini collapse by England's mid order wouldn't surprise me but even if they do with Anderson and Broad England could easily knock Australia over cheaply in 2nd innings, nicely poised. With only 2 days left though you've got to wonder if they'll run out of time, *run rates are very slow and batters playing very defensively. Rather not lose than win for the 1st test may be the thinking on both sides. *Test cricket is still the best form imo, you need patience and its like a cagey chess match but intriguing nonetheless.
		
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I think the wicket also has a lot to do with the slow scoring rate. Seems as though it's a wicket where you have to dig in rather than trying to play lots of shots. This test reminds me of how test cricket used to be played with teams happy to go at 2 to 2.5 runs per over and to try to stay at the crease for as long as possible rather than the more recent matches where they try to go at 4 an over. It wasn't that long ago that scoring over 300 runs in a day was considered unusual. Now it seems to be the norm.


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## Kellfire (Nov 26, 2017)

Well thatâ€™s a pleasing scorecard to wake up to.


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## Don Barzini (Nov 26, 2017)

Sigh. Same old England.


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## Matty6 (Nov 26, 2017)

Thatâ€™s the 1st test lost then! ðŸ˜¡


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## Tongo (Nov 26, 2017)

Depressingly predictable. 

Get Stokes out there or it's gonna be 5-0.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 26, 2017)

Tongo said:



			Depressingly predictable. 

Get Stokes out there or it's gonna be 5-0.
		
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I would think it very unlikely that Stokes will be taking any part in this series. 

In any event I cannot see that he would make very much difference.  His  play is too much "feast or famine " for that to be the case in a five Test series


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## Tongo (Nov 26, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			I would think it very unlikely that Stokes will be taking any part in this series. 

In any event I cannot see that he would make very much difference.  His  play is too much "feast or famine " for that to be the case in a five Test series
		
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I'd rather have feast or famine and the chance that it might help England win a test or two before the series is gone rather than the slow death that appears inevitable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			I would think it very unlikely that Stokes will be taking any part in this series. 

In any event I cannot see that he would make very much difference.  His  play is too much "feast or famine " for that to be the case in a five Test series
		
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Still donâ€™t rate stokes then or have you changed from your initial opinion on him not being good enough ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still donâ€™t rate stokes then or have you changed from your initial opinion on him not being good enough ?
		
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It's very difficult to rate anyone who could bowl that final over inn the T20 final.

Cricket is not a game that can be played entirely on instinct which is what Stokes appears to rely upon. 

Natural talent? Yes.
Great cricketer? No, not in my opinion


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## Tongo (Nov 26, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			It's very difficult to rate anyone who could bowl that final over inn the T20 final.

Cricket is not a game that can be played entirely on instinct which is what Stokes appears to rely upon. 

Natural talent? Yes.
Great cricketer? No, not in my opinion
		
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Who cares whether he's great or not. He'd offer something that the rest of the camp can't. And the Australians would much rather he wasnt there. Which is why they were banging on about it in the lead up with Warner saying he'd let the team down etc. Its more of the Australian kidology. If the Aussies didnt rate him they wouldnt be making those sorts of comments.


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## Tongo (Nov 26, 2017)

He also was the only English batsman to score a century 4 years ago and took the second best bowling figures by any English bowler so he's done more than many on Australian soil.

I'd judge his credentials for this series on those performances rather than the final of a T20 comp.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 26, 2017)

Tongo said:



			Who cares whether he's great or not. He'd offer something that the rest of the camp can't. And the Australians would much rather he wasnt there. Which is why they were banging on about it in the lead up with Warner saying he'd let the team down etc. Its more of the Australian kidology. If the Aussies didnt rate him they wouldnt be making those sorts of comments.
		
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Or maybe they knew the British media would jump on it and big up the story.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			It's very difficult to rate anyone who could bowl that final over inn the T20 final.

Cricket is not a game that can be played entirely on instinct which is what Stokes appears to rely upon. 

Natural talent? Yes.
Great cricketer? No, not in my opinion
		
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One over shoold never define one player 

Stokes has proved himself in all formats - he has excelled in tests as well as ODI and is one of Englandâ€™s best players - there is a very big hole in the team with him missing and he is a player that all the nations fear with both the bat and bowl.


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## Tongo (Nov 26, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Or maybe they knew the British media would jump on it and big up the story.
		
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Of course they knew that. In the hope that it keeps him off any flights Down Under.


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## Kellfire (Nov 26, 2017)

So now an allegation of a headbutt has come out. Did Bairstow nut him?!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 26, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			One over shoold never define one player 

Stokes has proved himself in all formats - he has excelled in tests as well as ODI and is one of Englandâ€™s best players - there is a very big hole in the team with him missing and he is a player that all the nations fear with both the bat and bowl.
		
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I didn't suggest that one over should define his career. However, it does more than raise questions over his ability under  pressure. 

I would also claim that it's an exaggeration to claim the Australians would fear him as a bowler.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			I didn't suggest that one over should define his career. However, it does more than raise questions over his ability under  pressure. 

I would also claim that it's an exaggeration to claim the Australians would fear him as a bowler.
		
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I think he has shown enough with some of his big centuries when the team was struggling to show that he can perform under pressure 

And Stokes showed in the last Ashes how his bowling can turn a game - and most batsmen getting a little worried about someone who can throw down some snorters like he can


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 26, 2017)

The bowling attack looks incapable of getting twenty wickets and the batsmen were found wanting. 1-0 to the Aussies and need to get a win in the next game or the series will be over far too quickly


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## IainP (Nov 27, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			So now an allegation of a headbutt has come out. Did Bairstow nut him?
		
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Bizarre joint press conference  by them.


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## GB72 (Nov 27, 2017)

Assuming it is rubbish but rumours on Twitter that Ben Stokes spotted at Heathrow.


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## fundy (Nov 27, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Assuming it is rubbish but rumours on Twitter that Ben Stokes spotted at Heathrow.
		
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may be some truth looking at whos posting it, rumoured to be on a flight to singapore then on to aus, be funny if we get up tomorrow to headlines of "disgraced england cricketer on all inclusive Ibiza holiday"


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## GB72 (Nov 27, 2017)

Suppose it makes sense to get him airborne then announce so you get 24 hours to deal with the press


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2017)

Is it an old pic though


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## fundy (Nov 27, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Suppose it makes sense to get him airborne then announce so you get 24 hours to deal with the press
		
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the rumours this was happening have been about for several days (the main version was he will be suspended by the mgmt for the 2nd test and play in the 3rd)


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 27, 2017)

Kellfire said:



			So now an allegation of a headbutt has come out. Did Bairstow nut him?!
		
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Apparently, I kid you not, it was the equivalent of a chest bump except with heads. Young folk today huh.


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## GB72 (Nov 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			the rumours this was happening have been about for several days (the main version was he will be suspended by the mgmt for the 2nd test and play in the 3rd)
		
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Guessing he is not getting charged then.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			the rumours this was happening have been about for several days (the main version was he will be suspended by the mgmt for the 2nd test and play in the 3rd)
		
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Get him in the side. By god do we need him!


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## fundy (Nov 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Get him in the side. By god do we need him!
		
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should be in jail not playing sport for his country sadly, talented cricketer but considering his previous cant have been cheap to get him off


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## Tashyboy (Nov 27, 2017)

My lad spent the first test watching it with the barmy army. Says there a bad bunch that made him drink 11 pints by 1.30 pm. &#128563;


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2017)

ECB stating heâ€™s not travelling to meet up with ashes squad they are aware however that heâ€™s making a private trip to NZ to see family and warm weather practise


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## Stuart_C (Nov 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			the rumours this was happening have been about for several days (the main version was he will be suspended by the mgmt for the 2nd test and play in the 3rd)
		
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No point waiting til the 3rd test, get him in straight away. If this was an Aussie player he'd be straight in the next test team.


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## fundy (Nov 28, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			No point waiting til the 3rd test, get him in straight away. If this was an Aussie player he'd be straight in the next test team.
		
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big assumption hes anywhere close to being match fit (yes thats different to fighting fit  )


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## User62651 (Dec 3, 2017)

Watching the live evening session from Adelaide on BT presently, good start by England BUT 1st wicket just gone so why did Root break convention and choose to bowl first on what I'm told everyone saw was a batters pitch? 450 odd declared by Ozzies puts England firmly on the back foot after 2 days, doesn't it?


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Watching the live evening session from Adelaide on BT presently, good start by England BUT 1st wicket just gone so why did Root break convention and choose to bowl first on what I'm told everyone saw was a batters pitch? 450 odd declared by Ozzies puts England firmly on the back foot after 2 days, doesn't it?
		
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last 2 day/night matches here have seen the side batting first bowled out for scores in the 200s, as often happens in cricket they choose to base the decision on numbers that were far from being statistically reliable rather than using their eyes on what was in front of them. This deck very straw coloured compared to the green one that the saffers got 250 on in 2016 thats for sure, quite a disappointing deck again, very slow and little carry yet again probably as a lively track under lioghts wouldve been a straight shoot out. hard to see how we get anything out of the series at all now


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## User2021 (Dec 3, 2017)

Hope I am wrong but can't see past another defeat, at the end of day 4.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 3, 2017)

jobr1850 said:



			Hope I am wrong but can't see past another defeat, at the end of day 4.
		
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Yep. Bowled out and following on tomorrow and all done before the end of day four


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Yep. Bowled out and following on tomorrow and all done before the end of day four
		
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Come on Homer, how about a bit of positivity? England bat all of days 3 and 4 and reach 550, then bowl Australia out for 150 in their 2nd innings and knock off the runs under the lights on day 5 with 2 balls to spare.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 3, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Come on Homer, how about a bit of positivity? England bat all of days 3 and 4 and reach 550, then bowl Australia out for 150 in their 2nd innings and knock off the runs under the lights on day 5 with 2 balls to spare.
		
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More chance of me reaching single figures in my opinion but I'd be made up for them if that happened and think we'd go on and win the series from that point.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 3, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Come on Homer, how about a bit of positivity? England bat all of days 3 and 4 and reach 550, then bowl Australia out for 150 in their 2nd innings and knock off the runs under the lights on day 5 with 2 balls to spare.
		
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Don't go on the drink drive thread, you'll get breathalysed & lose your licenceâ€¦â€¦â€¦


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## fundy (Dec 3, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Yep. Bowled out and following on tomorrow and all done before the end of day four
		
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be very surprised if the aussies enforce the follow on, would almost certainly bat again even if were 250 behind


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 4, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't go on the drink drive thread, you'll get breathalysed & lose your licenceâ€¦â€¦â€¦  

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England to finish day 3 on 285-3 with hundreds for both Cook and Root. And then a hundred for Bairstow on day 4. You heard it here first.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 4, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			England to finish day 3 on 285-3 with hundreds for both Cook and Root. And then a hundred for Bairstow on day 4. You heard it here first.
		
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There is a chance that I could possibly have been wrong. Obviously I meant 285-4 with hundreds for Cook and Ali.


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## ger147 (Dec 4, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			There is a chance that I could possibly have been wrong. Obviously I meant 285-4 with hundreds for Cook and Ali.
		
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I hope you're not a gambler...


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## fundy (Dec 4, 2017)

Smith clearly gonna regret choosing not to enforce. Expected him to not but when it was clear that the 3rd inns would be in the under lights session seems a strange decision and one he may be slightly regretting with how England have bowled in helpful conditions


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## Crazyface (Dec 4, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Come on Homer, how about a bit of positivity? England bat all of days 3 and 4 and reach 550, then bowl Australia out for 150 in their 2nd innings and knock off the runs under the lights on day 5 with 2 balls to spare.
		
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How's that working for you?


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 4, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			How's that working for you?
		
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Looking at the positives.........we could still bowl Australia out in their 2nd innings for 150 and knock off the runs on day 5 under the lights so the second half of my prediction could yet be correct.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Looking at the positives.........we could still bowl Australia out in their 2nd innings for 150 and knock off the runs on day 5 under the lights so the second half of my prediction could yet be correct.
		
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We could. We won't but we could. I can see one Aussie making a score, them setting a target out of reach and our batsmen found wanting.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 4, 2017)

Keep the faith Homer. Overton showed us the light with his batting yesterday. We will skittle them in the first session and then go on to a glorious victory.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Keep the faith Homer. Overton showed us the light with his batting yesterday. We will skittle them in the first session and then go on to a glorious victory.
		
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There's the first part done, now we just have to bat for five sessions and we'll win. 

Although I am expecting to wake up for my night shift later today to find we've been bowled out for 150 or fewer.


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## rudebhoy (Dec 5, 2017)

still expect Aussies to win comfortably, but will be interesting if England get to 200 for 2 or 3 wickets.


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## Don Barzini (Dec 5, 2017)

I very much doubt we can pull this off, but it would be nice if we made a decent stab at it and gave the Aussies a bit of a scare.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 5, 2017)

Iâ€™m confident weâ€™ll make this chase, nothing stupid and just take our time.


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## Don Barzini (Dec 5, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Iâ€™m confident weâ€™ll make this chase, nothing stupid and just take our time.
		
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I wish I shared your confidence, but I've been disappointed too many times by England in the past!


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## fundy (Dec 5, 2017)

massive wicket 10 mins from the close  been englands best day of the series so far by a long way


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## User62651 (Dec 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			massive wicket 10 mins from the close  been englands best day of the series so far by a long way
		
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So basically Root needs to bat for a day and stay on strike! Big ask.:fore:


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## rudebhoy (Dec 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			massive wicket 10 mins from the close  been englands best day of the series so far by a long way
		
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big mistake from Scott, not enforcing the follow-on. Should be an exciting final day.


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## Piece (Dec 5, 2017)

rudebhoy said:



			big mistake from *Scott*, not enforcing the follow-on. Should be an exciting final day.
		
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Who he?


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## rudebhoy (Dec 5, 2017)

Piece said:



			Who he? 

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haha, typo, have got a mate called Steve Scott!


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## Tongo (Dec 5, 2017)

Head says i'm gonna wake up to find England 7 or 8 down for 220, heart says Joe Root will play his career defining innings akin to Lara at Barbados in 1999. 

If Australia lose what will Smith be pilloried more for? Declaring too early or not enforcing the follow-on?


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## SaintHacker (Dec 5, 2017)

Tongo said:



			If Australia lose what will Smith be pilloried more for? Declaring too early or not enforcing the follow-on?
		
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Or if we get a couple of questionable decisions go our way what about for wasting reviews?


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## Karl102 (Dec 5, 2017)

Combination of stark Yorkers and Lyon tomorrow will see us fold.... I hope I am wrong...
Bairstow and Ali need to contribute.... Its this situation we will miss Stokes....


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2017)

Have to say I was impressed today. That last wicket was a big turning point and has swung the game back towards the Aussies. Had that not fallen then I think we would have been in real contention. It's imperative we bat the first hour without any more wickets


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 5, 2017)

Tongo said:



			Head says i'm gonna wake up to find England 7 or 8 down for 220, heart says Joe Root will play his career defining innings akin to Lara at Barbados in 1999. 

If Australia lose what will Smith be pilloried more for? Declaring too early or not enforcing the follow-on?
		
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As long as his own press hammer him I don't care why, ha ha. Best batsman in the world at the moment and if his own countrymen want to unsettle him that's fine with me.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 5, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have to say I was impressed today. That last wicket was a big turning point and has swung the game back towards the Aussies. Had that not fallen then I think we would have been in real contention. *It's imperative we bat the first hour without any more wickets*

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Given your previous for putting the mockers on sporting events couldn't you just have kept that thought to yourself Homer?


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2017)

horror start woakes out 2nd ball 

ball reversing a little not a good sign


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2017)

and Root follows  its the hope that kills lol


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## Matty6 (Dec 6, 2017)

These are our last two hopes. If either go soon then thatâ€™s definitely it for England.


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## Don Barzini (Dec 6, 2017)

So yet again we just roll over and donâ€™t even put up a half decent fight. Pathetic.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 6, 2017)

What a depressing way to wake up. I'm pleased I don't have BT Sport, ha ha. Sad to say but this is going to be yet another test series where the home team dominate and the away team struggle. All too familiar in recent years.

4-1 or 5-0.?


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## Don Barzini (Dec 6, 2017)

5-0 definitely. I can't see us even drawing a test. We can't bat for long enough. We're a load of old crap.


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## Piece (Dec 6, 2017)

Root says we are "massively" still in the series. Can't see it Rooty, me old chap, I'm afraid. Win or bust at Perth, known for its slow and low track :rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2017)

Can't see us getting anything from the series. Too many batting collapses


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## Don Barzini (Dec 9, 2017)

What the actual bloody hell is going on with our players behind the scenes?! Weâ€™ve now got a story emerging of Ben Duckett pouring a drink over James Anderson in a bar. 

Do they literally have zero common sense whatsoever?! Even before it started, this tour has been embarrassing both on and off the field. The Aussies must be absolutely peeing themselves laughing at us. And rightly bloody so at the moment.:angry::angry::angry:


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## fundy (Dec 9, 2017)

Complete and utter non story especially if nothing has gone before, somehow the management then decide him to pull him from the match squad and suspend him from playing. This a few days after hales and stokes are named in the one day squad lol. Scapegoating a junior player for nothing whilst trying to do everything to protect and get one of the superstar players back after he commits an assault. Welcome to the world of English cricket lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2017)

Don Barzini said:



			What the actual bloody hell is going on with our players behind the scenes?! Weâ€™ve now got a story emerging of Ben Duckett pouring a drink over James Anderson in a bar. 

Do they literally have zero common sense whatsoever?! Even before it started, this tour has been embarrassing both on and off the field. The Aussies must be absolutely peeing themselves laughing at us. And rightly bloody so at the moment.:angry::angry::angry:
		
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Even Trevor Bayliss said if it was down to him it would have been a non-event but the powers that be decided action needed taking. Mountain out of a molehill and another example of a posts governing body (ECB) being out of touch with the modern game and their superstar players


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2017)

I'm just waiting for someone to hire a Tiger Moth and take it for a spin at Perth &#128514;&#128514;. It's all that's missing.


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## fundy (Dec 10, 2017)

so the ECB who have just selected Stokes for the ODI series, despite videos of his assault and an ongoing police enquiry have deemed the punishment for swilling a teammate:

*Fined the maximum allowable amount for an England Lions player

*Suspended from playing for the rest of the current Lions Australian training camp. 

*Issued with a final written warning in respect of his conduct

has there ever been a more laughable national sporting body than this group of buffoons


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 10, 2017)

Questionable attitude towards fitness and doubts about his commitment together with previous drink related issues. 

What is Duckett even doing on a Lions tour?

Just another white ball slasher with an unjustified big reputation.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Questionable attitude towards fitness and doubts about his commitment together with previous drink related issues. 

What is Duckett even doing on a Lions tour?

Just another white ball slasher with an unjustified big reputation.
		
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Another talented young England cricketer written off by you - suspect he will be another who will prove you to be wrong just like Stokes did

He is 23 for goodness sake and only just starting out his career and has shown promise with both the white ball and red ball.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Another talented young England cricketer written off by you - suspect he will be another who will prove you to be wrong just like Stokes did

He is 23 for goodness sake and only just starting out his career and has shown promise with both the white ball and red ball.
		
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You do talk some twaddle. 

I have not written him off but I have  said that, as yet, his cricket hasn't earned the high  regard some, including yourself, seem to have placed upon it. Particularly so in the first class game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			You do talk some twaddle. 

I have not written him off but I have  said that, as yet, his cricket hasn't earned the high  regard some, including yourself, seem to have placed upon it. Particularly so in the first class game.
		
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You called him â€œanother white ball slasherâ€ and questions why he was on a Lions Tour ! 

He is on the Lions Tour because he has performed very well in CC as well as one Dayers over the last three seasons

In the first class game 

2015 - over a thousand runs at an average of over 50 including 4 tons
2016 - 1330 runs at an average of just below 60 - including a 4 scores over 180 with two of them going over 200 - was also named the Young Cricketer of the Year by the writers and PCA and was also the PCA player of the year 
2017 - last year he had a few injuries but got just over 800 runs with 4 centuries 

In 2016 Lions Tour he scored two big tons 163 and 220 

He is another young lad that England more than likely rushed into the team and took a battering away in India after 4 innings and suggesting he is nothing but a white ball slasher is writing the young lad off - but itâ€™s just the same as you did when dismissing the ability of Ben Stokes at test level


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 10, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You called him â€œanother white ball slasherâ€ and questions why he was on a Lions Tour ! 

He is on the Lions Tour because he has performed very well in CC as well as one Dayers over the last three seasons

In the first class game 

2015 - over a thousand runs at an average of over 50 including 4 tons
2016 - 1330 runs at an average of just below 60 - including a 4 scores over 180 with two of them going over 200 - was also named the Young Cricketer of the Year by the writers and PCA and was also the PCA player of the year 
2017 - last year he had a few injuries but got just over 800 runs with 4 centuries 

In 2016 Lions Tour he scored two big tons 163 and 220 

He is another young lad that England more than likely rushed into the team and took a battering away in India after 4 innings and suggesting he is nothing but a white ball slasher is writing the young lad off - but itâ€™s just the same as you did when dismissing the ability of Ben Stokes at test level
		
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Hardly a young lad at 23 and therein may be a the problem.

His attitude and commitment suggest he's struggling to grow up. 

As for Stokes my doubts about him at Test level remain. 

In my time England have only had one truly great all-rounder in Ian Botham.

Flintoff was a bowler who was a reasonable batsman and Stokes is a batsman who makes a fair job of being a fourth seamers.


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## Tongo (Dec 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Hardly a young lad at 23 and therein may be a the problem.

His attitude and commitment suggest he's struggling to grow up. 

As for Stokes my doubts about him at Test level remain. 

*In my time England have only had one truly great all-rounder in Ian Botham.
*
Flintoff was a bowler who was a reasonable batsman and Stokes is a batsman who makes a fair job of being a fourth seamers.
		
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This old chestnut is one of English cricket's problems, the constant need to find the next so and so or English cricket's equivalent of so and so. English cricket spent too long looking for an equivalent of Warne and an equivalent of Gilchrist whilst forever anointing the next Ian Botham. 
   Is stokes worth a place in the team? Yes, his batting over the last year or so is as good as any and he offers a decent option with the ball in both tests and ODI's. Anything after that from a playing point of view is just semantics.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 11, 2017)

Tongo said:



			This old chestnut is one of English cricket's problems, the constant need to find the next so and so or English cricket's equivalent of so and so. English cricket spent too long looking for an equivalent of Warne and an equivalent of Gilchrist whilst forever anointing the next Ian Botham. 
   Is stokes worth a place in the team? Yes, his batting over the last year or so is as good as any and he offers a decent option with the ball in both tests and ODI's. Anything after that from a playing point of view is just semantics.
		
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I agree with you. 

We have picked so called leggies who haven't any control, turn the occasional ball but with not enough zip to trouble Test batsmen and a succession of batsmen who keep wicket but whose glovework has been no better than you might see in top level Club cricket. 

My point regarding Stokes is that  he would improve our batting and he's a decent enough 4th seamer.

However, unlike some on here and much of the more sensational media I don't believe that he can provide all the answers to England's current woes.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			I agree with you. 

We have picked so called leggies who haven't any control, turn the occasional ball but with not enough zip to trouble Test batsmen and a succession of batsmen who keep wicket but whose glovework has been no better than you might see in top level Club cricket. 

My point regarding Stokes is that  he would improve our batting and he's a decent enough 4th seamer.

However, unlike some on here and much of the more sensational media I don't believe that he can provide all the answers to England's current woes.
		
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I think Stokes has the potential. Whether he already delivered in test and ODI cricket is a different thread. As for Duckett he is very much an untried package at the top level and against the best sides. At 23 he isn't an absolute youngster but has time. I wonder whether his temperament will be his undoing and sides will work on that


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## Dan2501 (Dec 12, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Flintoff was a bowler who was a reasonable batsman and Stokes is a batsman who makes a fair job of being a fourth seamers.
		
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Flintoff was much more than just a bowler in his prime. Towards the end of his career he was definitely in the side as a bowler that could contribute a few quick runs but from 2003 to the end of the 2005 Summer he averaged almost 44 with the bat with 4 hundreds and 15 50's, he was a serious threat with the bat - especially at home where he averaged over 50 in that period. His purple patch didn't last as long as Beefy's but when he was on he was a superb all-rounder.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2017)

Some poor shots this morning - Root and Cook 

Stoneman battled well and faced some very hostile bowling then got out to a snorter but review was shocking and very had to see how there was conclusive evidence to overturn the Not out

Vince again got in then got a cracker

Need a big score from Malan and Bairstow now


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## Dan2501 (Dec 14, 2017)

Brilliant partnership from Bairstow and Malan to end the day. Malan now the leading run-scorer in the series and the first English centurion.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 14, 2017)

Can I finally stop hiding from behind my cushion and start following the scores on the BBC website again? Really pleased for Malan. Let's hope we can get to 450 tomorrow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 14, 2017)

Malan and Bairstow were superb - played some superb crisp shots and also defended well - they were peppered with short balls all day long and attacked them - sometimes it was the wrong choice but they got away with some loose shots.

The dismissal of Stoneman was poor though - nothing on hotspot , snicko has a slight noise , the replays the umpire saw show no conclusive evidence that it was the top hand glove that it touched yet he gave it out - nothing but a guess from him . The host broadcaster found other replays that suggest it might have touched the top glove but that it also might have flicked the grill - Root says it was the grill . It was a very poor advert for telly reviews


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## Wilson (Dec 14, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Malan and Bairstow were superb - played some superb crisp shots and also defended well - they were peppered with short balls all day long and attacked them - sometimes it was the wrong choice but they got away with some loose shots.

The dismissal of Stoneman was poor though - nothing on hotspot , snicko has a slight noise , the replays the umpire saw show no conclusive evidence that it was the top hand glove that it touched yet he gave it out - nothing but a guess from him . The host broadcaster found other replays that suggest it might have touched the top glove but that it also might have flicked the grill - Root says it was the grill . It was a very poor advert for telly reviews
		
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It also raises questions when there are stories in the press around corruption of the Test match, it was a very poor decision, and I don't know how Dar made the decision he did.

Great batting from Malan and Bairstow, looked comfortable, and generally left the ball really well - let's hope they can re-start tomorrow, bat most of the day, and then stick the Aussies in towards the end.


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## Beezerk (Dec 14, 2017)

Wilson said:



			It also raises questions when there are stories in the press around corruption of the Test match, it was a very poor decision, and I don't know how Dar made the decision he did.

.
		
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The guys on TMS said they'd seen a camera angle which suggested the ball hit his glove (hand holding the bat) so the decision was correct, however this view wasn't available until 4 minutes after Dar had made the decision, up until then it was impossible to know for sure so essentially Dar made a wild guess and got lucky.


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## Tongo (Dec 14, 2017)

Well i wasnt expecting that when i heard on the radio into work that England were 4 down. Fair play to Malan and Bairstow. Still need to get beyond 450 though. If they do it'll be interesting to see how the Aussies' fragile batting fares under some scoreboard pressure.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 14, 2017)

Another poor innings from Cook. Has his time run out? Doesn't seem to give us a stable platform so far


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 15, 2017)

After Malan & Bairstow's heroics the subsequent collapse was disappointing.  Can't see us getting much joy out of this one looking at the way the Aussies are motoring on.


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## Tongo (Dec 15, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			After Malan & Bairstow's heroics the subsequent collapse was disappointing.  Can't see us getting much joy out of this one looking at the way the Aussies are motoring on.
		
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One partnership has helped England avoid another skittling. However, the bowling has been poor. England's bowlers cant seem to stick the ball in the right spot for 6 deliveries. At their pace that is a cardinal sin. And Moeen looks cannon fodder, as he so often does away from England.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 15, 2017)

Back to hiding behind the cushion &#128543;. The tail that is usually so good is letting us down now.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Dec 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Back to hiding behind the cushion &#128543;. The tail that is usually so good is letting us down now.
		
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I don't think the tail is the problem, the job No's 1-4 in the batting order are getting paid for is to score big runs and set the innings up. 

Too many batsmen are getting a start and then getting out which is not good enough at that level. 

Cook appears shot, Stoneman is working hard for runs and could have a future, Vince is way too loose outside off stump especially if he has been tied down and Root keeps finding new ways to give it away.

Smith is a great example, keeps churning out big runs despite looking awful, he just finds a way.

Frustrating since this isn't a great Aussie team. If we were able to keep them in the field longer at least one of their quicks would have broken down by now and most of their reserves are crocked.

I  fear a decent Aussie lead and England 2nd innings collapse as per usual.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 15, 2017)

saving_par said:



			I  fear a decent Aussie lead and England 2nd innings collapse as per usual.
		
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I think you could be right. I can see a lead of 100 or so and us being at least 4 down before we get ahead and make them bat again and will set them a paltry 100 or so to win the series. Hope the bowlers can get their act together tomorrow but I fear not


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 16, 2017)

Thank you and goodnight, that's it done.  After an early success in removing Steve Marsh, Mitchell Marsh makes his first Test 100, Steve Smith is  nearing 200 and with over 2 days to go you can only see this going one way.  Still, at least Joe Root thinks we're still well in it...........


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## Piece (Dec 16, 2017)

Not quite what I was hoping for waking up &#129300;


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 16, 2017)

Blue in Munich said:



			Thank you and goodnight, that's it done.  After an early success in removing Steve Marsh, Mitchell Marsh makes his first Test 100, Steve Smith is  nearing 200 and with over 2 days to go you can only see this going one way.  Still, at least Joe Root thinks we're still well in it........... 

Click to expand...

Eejit, Shaun Marsh.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 16, 2017)

Marsh 150, Smith 200 and lead nearly at 100, still with 6 wickets in hand.  Time to watch some golf.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2017)

Itâ€™s a flat wicket which needs bowlers with pace - we donâ€™t have the kind of pace the Aussies have so it was always going to be like this. Even Wood whilst quick is more a skiddy bowler - Expect it to die out as a draw 

The one big disappointment is Ali - must be struggling with that finger , bowling and batting been shocking.

Really glad that Overton has shown some fight though and hopefully a good start to a good career

England miss the fight of Stokes with both bat and bowl and also donâ€™t see Root as the ideal captain


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## Captainron (Dec 16, 2017)

Youâ€™ve got the weather on your side. Meant to rain tonight and tomorrow.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 16, 2017)

Steve Smith (226) & Mitchell Marsh (179) have now scored more than the whole England team.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 16, 2017)

Captainron said:



			Youâ€™ve got the weather on your side. Meant to rain tonight and tomorrow.
		
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We can only hope.

I've heard comments about Ali's finger from a few places. Why is he being picked if he can't spin the ball. How stupid a decision is that?

In Australia you need tall, bouncy, fast bowlers. We just don't have that at the moment. All very grim.


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## Tongo (Dec 16, 2017)

Dear ECB, 

Please can you inform us how English cricket can move forward from this debacle despite scheduling most of the county championship in April and September whilst administering a domestic game which fails to produce pace or spin bowlers.


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## Captainron (Dec 16, 2017)

Nathan Lyon wasnâ€™t mouthing off at the start of the series. He was just being honest


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 16, 2017)

The current difficulties are nothing new. Just how many times in the last 40 years have we won an Ashes series in Australia. 

Our domestic game produces bowlers who rely upon swing rather than pace and spinners that are more about economy than wickets. 

Our batsmen struggle against genuine pace, particularly if it's accompanied by bounce. Not surprising when they never experience it on English green tops. 

These factors coupled with the lop-sided  schedule referred to above means we must sadly expect to continue to struggle in Australia for the foreseeable future.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			The current difficulties are nothing new. Just how many times in the last 40 years have we won an Ashes series in Australia. 

Our domestic game produces bowlers who rely upon swing rather than pace and spinners that are more about economy than wickets. 

Our batsmen struggle against genuine pace, particularly if it's accompanied by bounce. Not surprising when they never experience it on English green tops. 

These factors coupled with the lop-sided  schedule referred to above means we must sadly expect to continue to struggle in Australia for the foreseeable future.
		
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Spot on. I think this tour highlights the issues we have at county level and the gulf between the quality we have in that area and being able to step up and play against the best in the world on any wicket that isn't green or turns and even when we do play on turning wickets abroad we still can't cope.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			The current difficulties are nothing new. Just how many times in the last 40 years have we won an Ashes series in Australia. 

Our domestic game produces bowlers who rely upon swing rather than pace and spinners that are more about economy than wickets. 

Our batsmen struggle against genuine pace, particularly if it's accompanied by bounce. Not surprising when they never experience it on English green tops. 

These factors coupled with the lop-sided  schedule referred to above means we must sadly expect to continue to struggle in Australia for the foreseeable future.
		
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Itâ€™s part and parcel of the game - not many teams lose home series 

Each country atmospheric conditions will determine the wickets that each country produces - all the rest teams are balanced for their home conditions. Young players need to go away and play in different conditions and hopefully the Lions Tours will help develop the players. 

I suspect we will have a period now where the Ashes will constantly change hands


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## Tongo (Dec 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s part and parcel of the game - not many teams lose home series 

Each country atmospheric conditions will determine the wickets that each country produces - all the rest teams are balanced for their home conditions. Young players need to go away and play in different conditions and hopefully the Lions Tours will help develop the players. 

I suspect we will have a period now where the Ashes will constantly change hands
		
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Australia have at least competed on their last 4 trips over to England when they have lost the series. Even in 2013 when it ended 3-0 to England the Aussies still made England work very hard for it. 3 of the last 4 trips down under England have been blown away and not even in the contest. Plenty will blame the county game but they should be blaming the ECB. They are in charge of the game in this country, and therefore the county game, so those at the top should be held accountable. Instead they will probably distance themselves from the county game whilst focusing on the new T20 folly.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2017)

Tongo said:



			Australia have at least competed on their last 4 trips over to England when they have lost the series. Even in 2013 when it ended 3-0 to England the Aussies still made England work very hard for it. 3 of the last 4 trips down under England have been blown away and not even in the contest. Plenty will blame the county game but they should be blaming the ECB. They are in charge of the game in this country, and therefore the county game, so those at the top should be held accountable. Instead they will probably distance themselves from the county game whilst focusing on the new T20 folly.
		
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Correct. Funny how other countries can go abroad and at least be competitive whereas we were slaughtered in India and struggling again now. We struggled to beat a West Indies side in transition and internal turmoil with rows with their board. Unless the ECB focus on the longer formats, we're end up a mediocre average if we haven't hit that point already


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s part and parcel of the game - not many teams lose home series 

Each country atmospheric conditions will determine the wickets that each country produces - all the rest teams are balanced for their home conditions. Young players need to go away and play in different conditions and hopefully the Lions Tours will help develop the players. 

I suspect we will have a period now where the Ashes will constantly change hands
		
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Fully aware of the woldwide home  series advantage. That was  the point of my post as people are, to an extent, over reacting. 

However, as Tongo said, we could be a little more competitive if the  ECB took steps to develop the right sort of player. 

I am afraid it will take much more than Lions tours as the domestic game doesn't seem designed to help identify the right young talent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2017)

Tongo said:



			Australia have at least competed on their last 4 trips over to England when they have lost the series. Even in 2013 when it ended 3-0 to England the Aussies still made England work very hard for it. 3 of the last 4 trips down under England have been blown away and not even in the contest. Plenty will blame the county game but they should be blaming the ECB. They are in charge of the game in this country, and therefore the county game, so those at the top should be held accountable. Instead they will probably distance themselves from the county game whilst focusing on the new T20 folly.
		
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I think right now England are 3rd or maybe 2nd in the test rankings - each countries domestic game isnâ€™t much different with most of the focus in those countries going towards the T20 events - but then other countries embrace that format and use it to develop their players.

What exactly should the ECB change about the County Champs


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## Tongo (Dec 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think right now England are 3rd or maybe 2nd in the test rankings - each countries domestic game isnâ€™t much different with most of the focus in those countries going towards the T20 events - but then other countries embrace that format and use it to develop their players.

*What exactly should the ECB change about the County Champs*

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Play some of it in summer for a start!

Other countries' domestic game may be similar but how many other countries have a series to rival the Ashes? Only Pakistan v India could rival the Ashes and that doesnt happen for various reasons. So the ECB should be focusing more on the CC than other boards as they have a series which likely provides a massive source of income. (And we all know its the dollars and pounds that count these days) A competitive Ashes has surely got to be good for stakeholders or whatever it is they are called.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2017)

Tongo said:



			Play some of it in summer for a start!
		
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They do but unfortunately County games donâ€™t keep counties running - the ODI and T20 do and we have seen over the last couple of years that even in the summer the weather isnâ€™t that great


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They do but unfortunately County games donâ€™t keep counties running - the ODI and T20 do and we have seen over the last couple of years that even in the summer the weather isnâ€™t that great
		
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With the emphasis on pub-cricket, sorry I meant T20, there is little opportunity for emerging players to develop in the same way as previous generations. 

And as the CC is largely condensed into the beginning and end of the season even more games are played on green tops.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			With the emphasis on pub-cricket, sorry I meant T20, there is little opportunity for emerging players to develop in the same way as previous generations. 

And as the CC is largely condensed into the beginning and end of the season even more games are played on green tops.
		
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T20 or â€œpub cricketâ€ as you call it is here to stay and in fact helped the sport become more professional- â€œPub Cricketâ€ brings the bums onto the seats to help pay for stuff 

Other countries embrace it and actually look to move forward with it and use it as an area to develop players.

There is actually more levels for emerging players to develop - and Iâ€™m not sure how back your generations are going but letâ€™s be honest England havenâ€™t really dominated or been at a consistent high level in test at any period than I can remember


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			T20 or â€œpub cricketâ€ as you call it is here to stay and in fact helped the sport become more professional- â€œPub Cricketâ€ brings the bums onto the seats to help pay for stuff 

Other countries embrace it and actually look to move forward with it and use it as an area to develop players.

There is actually more levels for emerging players to develop - and Iâ€™m not sure how back your generations are going but letâ€™s be honest England havenâ€™t really dominated or been at a consistent high level in test at any period than I can remember
		
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Only two teams have truly dominated Test cricket in the last 50 years. 

West Indies in 70's and early 80's and Australia in 90's to 2005.

My point is that if we are to really compete then we need to develop Test cricketers rather than "slap and giggles bitsa players.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Only two teams have truly dominated Test cricket in the last 50 years. 

West Indies in 70's and early 80's and Australia in 90's to 2005.

My point is that if we are to really compete then we need to develop Test cricketers rather than "slap and giggles bitsa players.
		
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Yep. Not sure how it can be suggested T20 can be used to develop players in a test environment. Two very different aspects and different skill sets, not all of which are transferable from one to the other. Sadly the county format is a dead duck and I can see it falling away altogether within the next 20-30 years and that cannot be good for cricket as a whole


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Only two teams have truly dominated Test cricket in the last 50 years. 

West Indies in 70's and early 80's and Australia in 90's to 2005.

My point is that if we are to really compete then we need to develop Test cricketers rather than "slap and giggles bitsa players.
		
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The rankings suggest we do compete at all formats and England do have differing contracts for different players depending on formats and players are tailored towards Test if their abilities aim towards that area. But the â€œslapâ€ cricket as you keep demeaning it has proven to be extremely successful and has prob saved the game in most countries and counties - it also attracts new people to the game both watching and playing , it makes it more relevant in the modern world , it attracts the sponsors and the money that is used to develop players in all formats.

Smith , Kohli and Warner - just a few names who got their international debuts in the â€œslap cricket and moved on to tests from there - a couple years for Warner and Kohli


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## fundy (Dec 16, 2017)

t20 is sooo last year, T10 is where its at now


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			it also attracts new people to the game both watching and playing ,
		
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Very little evidence that any new spectators take any interest in the longer forms of the game and absolutely no evidence to support a claim that T20 has brought new players into Clubs.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 16, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Very little evidence that any new spectators take any interest in the longer forms of the game and absolutely no evidence to support a claim that T20 has brought new players into Clubs.
		
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No doubt evidence will arrive but you only have to look around the grounds at any four day game to see how sparsely populated they are, usually by members only and mainly those that have retired. Even when these games roll over (or start) at weekends there is very little appetite from spectators and I agree with you, in that T20 is not growing the game. It may add to other one day gates but as far as the long format game, it does nothing to grow the game


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2017)

So today the pitch suddenly becomes alive with inconsistent bounce and getting movement especially from the cracks - Anderson bowled so much better then in comes England - Stoneman poor movement , Cook - cracking catch , Root - shocking shot , Vince played very well then got a peach. Need the rain and these two to have another big stance.


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## Captainron (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			t20 is sooo last year, T10 is where its at now 

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Jeez G. Thatâ€™s gotta be a lottery when it comes to picking winners. Far too short a format surely


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

Captainron said:



			Jeez G. Thatâ€™s gotta be a lottery when it comes to picking winners. Far too short a format surely
		
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far easier for those behind the scenes to make a few quid in the less straight ones too sadly


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## Tongo (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			far easier for those behind the scenes to make a few quid in the less straight ones too sadly
		
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And to give players like Virender Sehwag one last pay day. Maybe it'll be like golf's senior tour!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 17, 2017)

If T10 is genuine, I thought it was a humorous post, then it will be more akin to baseball.

The problem for test cricket is that players can earn far more being a T20 specialist than they can being a test player. Maybe not for Australia and England players but for the rest T20 pays the mortgage and more. No incentive for young players to play test cricket.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If T10 is genuine, I thought it was a humorous post, then it will be more akin to baseball.

The problem for test cricket is that players can earn far more being a T20 specialist than they can being a test player. Maybe not for Australia and England players but for the rest T20 pays the mortgage and more. No incentive for young players to play test cricket.
		
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Itâ€™s a three day event with matches looking to be done within 90 mins 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.ti...ed-india-timings/amp_articleshow/62095336.cms

Donâ€™t think it will hit T20 levels but certainly will be a bit of fun


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If T10 is genuine, I thought it was a humorous post, then it will be more akin to baseball.

The problem for test cricket is that players can earn far more being a T20 specialist than they can being a test player. Maybe not for Australia and England players but for the rest T20 pays the mortgage and more. No incentive for young players to play test cricket.
		
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sadly genuine, watch out for F5, T2 and probably Super Over tournaments in the near future. RIP cricket


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## Deleted member 3432 (Dec 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s a three day event with matches looking to be done within 90 mins 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.ti...ed-india-timings/amp_articleshow/62095336.cms

Donâ€™t think it will hit T20 levels but certainly will be a bit of fun
		
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I'm sure bowlers will find it great fun....


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 17, 2017)

saving_par said:



			I'm sure bowlers will find it great fun....
		
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Therein lies the problem with the short formats. 

Cricket ceases to be a fair or absorbing contest between bat and ball with the rules and their interpretation stacked in favour of the batsman. 

Everything is geared towards encouraging big hitting as that is what apparently appeals to the "new spectators ".

Fine, just as long as we realise that ultimately ultimately it's to the detriment of the real game.


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Therein lies the problem with the short formats. 

Cricket ceases to be a fair or absorbing contest between bat and ball with the rules and their interpretation stacked in favour of the batsman. 

Everything is geared towards encouraging big hitting *as that is what apparently appeals to the "new spectators ".*

Fine, just as long as we realise that ultimately ultimately it's to the detriment of the real game.
		
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this is the biggest problem for me, complete and utter dumbing down of sport under the guise of attracting new fans. Does anyone really enjoy watching mis-hits with a bat that is 2 inches thick clearing a 45 yard boundary by 5 yards?

be like increasing the size of the hole in golf lol


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			this is the biggest problem for me, complete and utter dumbing down of sport under the guise of attracting new fans. Does anyone really enjoy watching mis-hits with a bat that is 2 inches thick clearing a 45 yard boundary by 5 yards?

be like increasing the size of the hole in golf lol
		
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Iâ€™m guessing by looking at the crowd sizes and sell outs all over the world people do enjoy watching T20 - itâ€™s maybe not what the purests enjoy but itâ€™s certainly appears the most popular format of the sport.


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m guessing by looking at the crowd sizes and sell outs all over the world people do enjoy watching T20 - itâ€™s maybe not what the purests enjoy but itâ€™s certainly appears the most popular format of the sport.
		
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T10 final is on sky ch 863  enjoy


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m guessing by looking at the crowd sizes and sell outs all over the world people do enjoy watching T20 - itâ€™s maybe not what the purests enjoy but itâ€™s certainly appears the most popular format of the sport.
		
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so selling out on the fans of the game who have supported it for 40 years+ to chase money and tv rankings is the way to go?


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

Great article on the test, Englands failings and how wrong the ECB have got it

https://beingoutsidecricket.com/2017/12/17/3rd-ashes-test-day-four/


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			so selling out on the fans of the game who have supported it for 40 years+ to chase money and tv rankings is the way to go?
		
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Exactly and as we can see it's gone a long way to improving technique in longer formats!!

Cook is done I'm afraid and lasted 20 odd balls today. We need to be able to build a solid start and sadly he's not delivering. As good as he's been for England as a player and captain this needs to be the end and we need to be rebuilding. Stoneman could be a good opener and needs more time but who then goes in with him?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			so selling out on the fans of the game who have supported it for 40 years+ to chase money and tv rankings is the way to go?
		
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Well is the support going to be able to sustain itself without a format that attracts crowds ? Can countyâ€™s survive on gates from Championship and ODI gates ? I donâ€™t expect they can. Counties and Governing bodies need finances to survive and to move forward - sparse crowds in the county Champs arenâ€™t going to that. There is three formats of the sport - some like one format some like all the format. I have been to tests , ODI , County Champs - the best entertainment was the T20 finals day and a full Edgebaston - brilliant day with some superb cricket played from both bowlers and batsmen. Sport is entertainment- T20 entertains people


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## Tongo (Dec 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Iâ€™m guessing by looking at the crowd sizes and sell outs all over the world people do enjoy watching T20 - itâ€™s maybe not what the purests enjoy but itâ€™s certainly appears the most popular format of the sport.
		
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At the t20 game I watched last summer the vast majority werenâ€™t watching the game and didnâ€™t seem interested in what was going on.

And with regard to the sellouts, despite the blast growing year on year the eco claim English cricket needs another t20 tournament.


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well is the support going to be able to sustain itself without a format that attracts crowds ? Can countyâ€™s survive on gates from Championship and ODI gates ? I donâ€™t expect they can. Counties and Governing bodies need finances to survive and to move forward - sparse crowds in the county Champs arenâ€™t going to that. There is three formats of the sport - some like one format some like all the format. I have been to tests , ODI , County Champs - the best entertainment was the T20 finals day and a full Edgebaston - brilliant day with some superb cricket played from both bowlers and batsmen. Sport is entertainment- T20 entertains people
		
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Most of english cricket survives based on the funds generated from test match cricket. County cricket is the means to sustaining test match cricket and the revenue this generates. Remove those 2 and lets see how long cricket can survive in this country based on T20. 


Next comes the ECB paying too much to the counties to force in a new T20 competition that very few people in cricket actually want, the counties couldnt turn down the Â£1m+ on offer yet are already questionning what they signed up to as the ECB are already starting to move the goalposts

But as long as you had a ball at finals day then thats fine, lets just destroy what used to be a great sport


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2017)

Tongo said:



			At the t20 game I watched last summer the vast majority werenâ€™t watching the game and didnâ€™t seem interested in what was going on.

And with regard to the sellouts, despite the blast growing year on year the eco claim English cricket needs another t20 tournament.
		
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Many (not all) at T20 are there for a drink and a laugh with mates and cricket is often secondary (and I've been to seven county grounds watching this format). ODI's are always a sell out and are a better form of cricket where you have to learn to pick your shots as a batsman, and when to leave, and bowlers who have to pick a line and length and learn variations. I would argue ODI Is equally as popular as T20 in terms of selling out


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			Most of english cricket survives based on the funds generated from test match cricket. County cricket is the means to sustaining test match cricket and the revenue this generates. Remove those 2 and lets see how long cricket can survive in this country based on T20. 


Next comes the ECB paying too much to the counties to force in a new T20 competition that very few people in cricket actually want, the counties couldnt turn down the Â£1m+ on offer yet are already questionning what they signed up to as the ECB are already starting to move the goalposts

But as long as you had a ball at finals day then thats fine, lets just destroy what used to be a great sport
		
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How exactly is the sport being â€œdestroyedâ€ - touch overreaction maybe ? I donâ€™t see a sport being â€œdestroyedâ€


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How exactly is the sport being â€œdestroyedâ€ - touch overreaction maybe ? I donâ€™t see a sport being â€œdestroyedâ€
		
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I see a sport being dissolved into a limited over fest and the skills needed for test cricket being allowed to die out. It doesn't bode well in a couple of decades in my opinion


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How exactly is the sport being â€œdestroyedâ€ - touch overreaction maybe ? I donâ€™t see a sport being â€œdestroyedâ€
		
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skills are being eroded, longer format being marginalised time after time, forced to play second fiddle to a dumbed down version of the game, the new T20 comp is likely to put half of the counties out of business or at least make them second tier once theyve burnt through their pay off. lets see where the game is at in ten years time, i expect it is at best a pale shadow of what it was


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## Tongo (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			skills are being eroded, longer format being marginalised time after time, forced to play second fiddle to a dumbed down version of the game, the new T20 comp is likely to put half of the counties out of business or at least make them second tier once theyve burnt through their pay off. lets see where the game is at in ten years time, i expect it is at best a pale shadow of what it was
		
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The biggest fallacy is that T20 is growing the game. It brings in more drinkers and people dressing up but no t people interested in playing the game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			skills are being eroded, longer format being marginalised time after time, forced to play second fiddle to a dumbed down version of the game, the new T20 comp is likely to put half of the counties out of business or at least make them second tier once theyve burnt through their pay off. lets see where the game is at in ten years time, i expect it is at best a pale shadow of what it was
		
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Skills eroded ? Thatâ€™s just a statement that really canâ€™t be judged - Kohli for example is one the best batsmen in the world - he was playing T20 internationals for a couple years first before moving into the test arena - his skills donâ€™t seem to be eroded , Think Smith and Warner the same. 

Longer format forced to play second fiddle ? Iâ€™m guessing you mean CC which has been poor for decades before T20 came around. 

14 years the T20 has been around - in that period itâ€™s prob been a period where England Test cricket has reached heights not seen for a long time - 3 Ashes in a row , reaching number one in the world. 

Itâ€™s overreaction and being over dramatic and it always happens when England struggle in a series

Must add Iâ€™m not a fan of the franchise Comp
Though


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			sadly genuine, watch out for F5, T2 and probably Super Over tournaments in the near future. RIP cricket
		
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I think I'll give it a miss. 

I've heard T20 described as a Big Mac Meal, quick, pleasant at the time but forgotten the next day. T10 would be more like a bag of crisps. Why would bowlers want to be involved in that? They would just be fodder for clubbers.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2017)

Don't mind T20 but it's a limited format. As for bringing players on I'd suggest that quality players will adapt and come through regardless and so the likes of Kohli were good test players despite T20 and not because of it. I can't see the benefit of an even shorter format. As for England being #1 in the test ranking during the T20 era, I'd put that down to the other nations going through a rebuilding process with each country's best players retiring and having to bring new ones through while England were fortunate enough to have a decent squad in place at the same time. As we're now #3 in the ICC test rankings it's hardly a conclusive argument that T20 has helped develop the test side


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## upsidedown (Dec 17, 2017)

Is there any correlation between India being ranked no 1 in the world and the IPL being the world's biggest T20m comp ?

Whilst 20 20 may not be for the purist it puts bums on seats and generates tremendous revenue , both for clubs and players worldwide.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 17, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think I'll give it a miss. 

I've heard T20 described as a Big Mac Meal, quick, pleasant at the time but forgotten the next day. T10 would be more like a bag of crisps. *Why would bowlers want to be involved in that?* They would just be fodder for clubbers.
		
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Money!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 17, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Money!
		
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Fair point &#128513;. Should have seen that one coming.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2017)

upsidedown said:



			Is there any correlation between India being ranked no 1 in the world and the IPL being the world's biggest T20m comp ?

Whilst 20 20 may not be for the purist it puts bums on seats and generates tremendous revenue , both for clubs and players worldwide.
		
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Possibly but don't forget they also pay big bucks for a host of overseas players so I think its a coincidence and they are lucky to be going through a period where their longer day players have come together and peaked at the same time these franchises spend massive money luring the best players to come over and play


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## fundy (Dec 17, 2017)

upsidedown said:



			Is there any correlation between India being ranked no 1 in the world and the IPL being the world's biggest T20m comp ?

Whilst 20 20 may not be for the purist it puts bums on seats and generates tremendous revenue , both for clubs and players worldwide.
		
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are the revenues that great? 800k attendance or so across the year, average ticket price Â£15 (excl corporate)? 

Lords test 30k attendance a day, average ticket Â£100 (excl corporate)

not a great deal between the 2 is there?


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## upsidedown (Dec 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			are the revenues that great? 800k attendance or so across the year, average ticket price Â£15 (excl corporate)? 

Lords test 30k attendance a day, average ticket Â£100 (excl corporate)

not a great deal between the 2 is there?
		
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No there isn't and there doesn't need to be as for me both have a place in the game but I feel the 20 20 game and all the razz ta mazz associated with it will entice more folks to watch that form than the 5 day game rather than vica a versa , should some of those folks then go onto follow and support the longer game that'd be brilliant.

Attendance figures are up both here and in Oz, in Oz with 28% of those watchings the Tests, no doubt some of those will also have been to the BB.  https://www.cricket.com.au/news/cri...on-audience-ratings-tests-bbl-wbbl/2017-03-31


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## anotherdouble (Dec 18, 2017)

We came, we saw, we had Christmas, we flattered to deceive, we are going to leave with our tails between our legs. Well and truly dispatched


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## User62651 (Dec 18, 2017)

Dont quite follow why they have to play all 5 tests in a best of 5 situation. Let the guys come home for Christmas with their families. All about ticket sales and money generation I suppose. However if I was an Ozzie with tickets to the 4th or 5th test I'd be looking to get a refund and do something else with my time. Totally uncompetitive now no matter what anyone trys to sell, all real pressures are off the players now, pressure is what makes great ashes matches. 3-0, 4-0, 5-0, 4-1, 3-2, doesn't matter, Ashes are over.


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## Wilson (Dec 18, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Dont quite follow why they have to play all 5 tests in a best of 5 situation. Let the guys come home for Christmas with their families. All about ticket sales and money generation I suppose. However if I was an Ozzie with tickets to the 4th or 5th test I'd be looking to get a refund and do something else with my time. Totally uncompetitive now no matter what anyone trys to sell, all real pressures are off the players now, pressure is what makes great ashes matches. 3-0, 4-0, 5-0, 4-1, 3-2, doesn't matter, Ashes are over.
		
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I went in 2006, got on the plane knowing it was already over - I'm still glad there was cricket, and we had a cracking time.


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## Piece (Dec 18, 2017)

Root says, _"I am proud of the way we battled, but we were outskilled. We have been in every game but not managed to drive it forwards. *We haven't been completely outplayed *we just haven't performed at that level for long periods of time."_

Results say...

1st Test - lost by 10 wickets
2nd Test - lost by 120 runs
3rd Test - lost by an innings and 41 runs.

In my book that is completely outplayed.


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## Tongo (Dec 18, 2017)

Piece said:



			Root says, _"I am proud of the way we battled, but we were outskilled. We have been in every game but not managed to drive it forwards. *We haven't been completely outplayed *we just haven't performed at that level for long periods of time."_

Results say...

1st Test - lost by 10 wickets
2nd Test - lost by 120 runs
3rd Test - lost by an innings and 41 runs.

In my book that is completely outplayed. 

Click to expand...

Usual banal media guff from the England camp. One partnership saved England from complete annihilation in that match.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 18, 2017)

Piece said:



			Root says, _"I am proud of the way we battled, but we were outskilled. We have been in every game but not managed to drive it forwards. *We haven't been completely outplayed *we just haven't performed at that level for long periods of time."_

Results say...

1st Test - lost by 10 wickets
2nd Test - lost by 120 runs
3rd Test - lost by an innings and 41 runs.

In my book that is completely outplayed. 

Click to expand...

Wrap it up anyway like Joe, but your boys have taken a right good pasting and simply haven't been good enough and outplayed in all areas. Can't see beyond 5-0 now


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## Captainron (Dec 18, 2017)

So should Cook jack it all in? Should Broad be dropped? Should Moeen be left out and given time to heal his finger so he can actually turn a ball? 

Yes to all 3 for me

Jennings for Cook
Garton for Broad
Crane for Ali


Could even look to play Bairstow as an opening batsman and give Foakes a go behind the sticks and bat 6? Might be radical but something needs to change?


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## Paperboy (Dec 18, 2017)

*Re: The Ashes 2&lt;script src=*



Captainron said:



			So should Cook jack it all in? Should Broad be dropped? Should Moeen be left out and given time to heal his finger so he can actually turn a ball? 

Yes to all 3 for me

Jennings for Cook
Garton for Broad
Crane for Ali


Could even look to play Bairstow as an opening batsman and give Foakes a go behind the sticks and bat 6? Might be radical but something needs to change?
		
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Who's Garton?


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## Tongo (Dec 18, 2017)

Captainron said:



			So should Cook jack it all in? Should Broad be dropped? Should Moeen be left out and given time to heal his finger so he can actually turn a ball? 

Yes to all 3 for me

Jennings for Cook
Garton for Broad
Crane for Ali


Could even look to play Bairstow as an opening batsman and give Foakes a go behind the sticks and bat 6? Might be radical but something needs to change?
		
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Would very much like to see Foakes given a go in the last two tests. Very good keeper by all accounts with a not too shabby batting average either.


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## Beezerk (Dec 18, 2017)

Captainron said:



			So should Cook jack it all in? Should Broad be dropped? Should Moeen be left out?
		
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Cook, not sure, really poor form saved by that big 200 against an awful Windies team.
Maybe heâ€™ll retire after the ashes anyway.

Broad, definitely, worst of all the bowlers.

Moeen, another definitely, 2nd worse of all the bowlers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 18, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42401032

Pretty good summary 

Lot of focus on Cook having a poor tour but Ali , Root and Broad are equally culpable but I donâ€™t see them going yet - donâ€™t see too many knocking on the door. Should have taken a better spin option than Crane - England arenâ€™t blessed with bowlers that are going to sling it down at over 88mph and from a height so not sure what other bowler should have gone. 

Root has also been poor as a skipper - but the worst thing is they have had chances to stay in the Ashes in all the tests - they just havenâ€™t taken them


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## Captainron (Dec 18, 2017)

*Re: The Ashes 2&lt;script src=*



Paperboy said:



			Who's Garton?
		
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Young Sussex left arm quick. Different angles from him like Starc?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 18, 2017)

Captainron said:



			So should Cook jack it all in? Should Broad be dropped? Should Moeen be left out and given time to heal his finger so he can actually turn a ball? 

Yes to all 3 for me

Jennings for Cook
Garton for Broad
Crane for Ali


Could even look to play Bairstow as an opening batsman and give Foakes a go behind the sticks and bat 6? Might be radical but something needs to change?
		
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I'd go with that especially Foakes. Nothing to lose now and blood them against a good side and see if they have what it takes (but don't throw them on the scrapheap after two games if they do struggle). I've said for a while now Cook is done. Broad ineffective and Ali a shadow of what he can produce so drop them all and let's begin to look forward


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## Captainron (Dec 25, 2017)

And choke!

Selectors have bottled it big time. 

According to a report by Cricket Network there is only 1 change. Curran for Overton.

Urinary Poor!


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 25, 2017)

Captainron said:



			And choke!

Selectors have bottled it big time. 

According to a report by Cricket Network there is only 1 change. Curran for Overton.

Urinary Poor!
		
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Selectors protecting their own derrieres; change 3 or 4, actually make a game or 2 of it & then the question will be asked as to why they weren't selected in the first place, thus highlighting the selectors' ineptitude.  Change 1 & make a game of it and they have a defendable position as they were nearly there......


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## fundy (Dec 25, 2017)

i get the clamour for changes, but who are these world beaters that are going to turn it round that we havent selected for the first 3 tests? Cant see making changes or not having much effect. would like to see crane get a go (albeit its most liklely too soon for him) other than that hard to see anyone feeling too hard done by imo


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## Junior (Dec 25, 2017)

fundy said:



			i get the clamour for changes, but who are these world beaters that are going to turn it round that we havent selected for the first 3 tests? Cant see making changes or not having much effect. would like to see crane get a go (albeit its most liklely too soon for him) other than that hard to see anyone feeling too hard done by imo
		
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I agree, we donâ€™t have the depth in the squad.  Remember the last hiding we took in Oz and we ended up using lots of different players.  Even Borthwick was called in and he was playing club cricket in oz.  It was embarrassing, I donâ€™t think any wholesale changes would make a difference.  

Sometimes you just have to admit that they are streets ahead of us and we didnt have the firepower to compete in the first three games.  I like the fact the players are now being told to step up , be accountable and fight.


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## Captainron (Dec 25, 2017)

So now is the time to drop the elderly and blood the youngsters.

No bottle or planning. The English seems to live series to series at the moment and theyâ€™re going backwards


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## Tongo (Dec 25, 2017)

I'm disappointed Foakes isnt getting a chance. Get Bairstow up the order and let Foakes keep.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 25, 2017)

Would drop Cook who I think has generally been poor for a while. Aside from one double hundred against an ina dn out West Indoes attack the rest of the scores have been poor http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/11728.html


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## fundy (Dec 25, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would drop Cook who I think has generally been poor for a while. Aside from one double hundred against an ina dn out West Indoes attack the rest of the scores have been poor http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/11728.html

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easy to drop players, so who of the touring party replaces the guy whos scored nearly 12000 test runs (and still averages 35 this year despite a horrid run)


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## fundy (Dec 25, 2017)

lost the toss and aussie batting on what looks a very dry flat deck, gonna be hard work bowling them out and expect lyon causes us problems as the test goes on, hard to feel any optimism ahead of this


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## Paperboy (Dec 25, 2017)

fundy said:



			lost the toss and aussie batting on what looks a very dry flat deck, gonna be hard work bowling them out and expect lyon causes us problems as the test goes on, hard to feel any optimism ahead of this
		
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I'm on the single malt, false optimism here &#128514;


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## fundy (Dec 26, 2017)

Paperboy said:



			I'm on the single malt, false optimism here &#128514;
		
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you might want to pour another large one


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## RW1986 (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm still hopeful it will finish 5-0. Should have picked Stokes and left Cook at home. Terrible decision regardless of the case against him. He's not been found guilty so he should have been allowed to play.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 26, 2017)

Another long day, and can't see day two being much better. Expecting England to be chasing down 500 in the first innings


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 27, 2017)

Well that's a Brucie bonus to start the evening. :thup:


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Another long day, and can't see day two being much better. Expecting England to be chasing down 500 in the first innings
		
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great bowling Homie 

much better session from England now need to score big on what already looks an overly dry wicket, pretty 2 paced and getting slower. will want to get them in the first inns for sure


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## Matty6 (Dec 27, 2017)

Nice to see some decent England bowling. Broad looks a different player to what weâ€™ve so far in this series. Long may it continue!

However, Iâ€™m not confident on the England batting lineup posting a competitive score ðŸ™„


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## 2blue (Dec 27, 2017)

Well...  who would have thought it. Stayed up long enough to see the â€˜Underarmbowlersâ€™ dismissed.....  though , admittedly, not all â€˜liveâ€™ due to good malts!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			great bowling Homie 

much better session from England now need to score big on what already looks an overly dry wicket, pretty 2 paced and getting slower. will want to get them in the first inns for sure
		
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It took a while for the Homer magic to work on Cook but got there in the end. Itâ€™s helped with the Aussies being down a bowler and also Starc not there but for once England playing the pitch far better today - some cracking drives from Cook and good solid start for Root. Vince is so close to be a very good number 3.


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## Junior (Dec 27, 2017)

Junior said:



			I agree, we donâ€™t have the depth in the squad.  Remember the last hiding we took in Oz and we ended up using lots of different players.  Even Borthwick was called in and he was playing club cricket in oz.  It was embarrassing, I donâ€™t think any wholesale changes would make a difference.  

Sometimes you just have to admit that they are streets ahead of us and we didnt have the firepower to compete in the first three games.  I like the fact the players are now being told to step up , be accountable and fight.
		
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Well played Cook.  People forget that he is still one of the best batsmen in the country.  He rarely failed for Essex last season and as yet, there is no one to step up and replace him. 

 Iâ€™m not hopeful of a result as we tend to compete for a couple of days and fold, but im glad we are showing some fight.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 27, 2017)

Junior said:



			Well played Cook.  People forget that he is still one of the best batsmen in the country.  He rarely failed for Essex last season and as yet, there is no one to step up and replace him. 

 Iâ€™m not hopeful of a result as we tend to compete for a couple of days and fold, but im glad we are showing some fight.
		
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Have you noticed how many people Homer doubts and I believe its all down to his failings how he judges others.
Would be nice to salvage something although I have not been watching this time.


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## Junior (Dec 27, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Have you noticed how many people Homer doubts and I believe its all down to his failings how he judges others.
Would be nice to salvage something although I have not been watching this time.
		
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The thing with cricket though, you just have to admit when you have been outplayed, and you have to stick by your gun players when they are out of form.   I always hark back to the days of Hick, Crawley, Ramprakash, Devon Malcom etc.  World class players who never got a decent run in the side.

If Broad, Cook etc were dropped, they would go back to county cricket , be the best players in the championship and people would be shouting for them to be recalled.  Iâ€™m all for bringing in youth, but there has to be a balance.


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It took a while for the Homer magic to work on Cook but got there in the end. Itâ€™s helped with the Aussies being down a bowler and also Starc not there but for once England playing the pitch far better today - some cracking drives from Cook and good solid start for Root. Vince is so close to be a very good number 3.
		
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lack of bounce in the pitch a big factor too, slower and lower far closer to the pitches we bat on at home (as long as it doesnt fall apart from being too dry)

lets hope he can make another double ton


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2017)

Junior said:



			The thing with cricket though, you just have to admit when you have been outplayed, and you have to stick by your gun players when they are out of form.   I always hark back to the days of Hick, Crawley, Ramprakash, Devon Malcom etc.  World class players who never got a decent run in the side.

If Broad, Cook etc were dropped, they would go back to county cricket , be the best players in the championship and people would be shouting for them to be recalled.  Iâ€™m all for bringing in youth, but there has to be a balance.
		
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definitely prefer the days where guys may get a chance too many than several too few as used to happen with the revolving  door selections, that said its much harder to drop someone when you have little to replace them with. sides going to look very different in a few years with no broad, andersen or cook thats for sure


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## Junior (Dec 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			definitely prefer the days where guys may get a chance too many than several too few as used to happen with the revolving  door selections, that said its much harder to drop someone when you have little to replace them with. sides going to look very different in a few years with no broad, andersen or cook thats for sure
		
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For sure mate.  Jennings seems to have something so I hope he gets a run when Cook decides to step down. 

Im not sure who can step up in the bowling department though.  Porter, Coad or Overton seem the ones , but I just donâ€™t think they set the world on fire. I hope they prove me wrong.  Harmer , if or when he qualifies too could be the spinner we are crying out for.

My other beef is that I think Anderson should have been captain for last Summer and this Ashes series. Let Root have the vice and have him take over.  I hate how we always burden our talisman type players with the captaincy when they are too young,


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## louise_a (Dec 27, 2017)

I cant help thinking that the fact the series is lost and the pressure is off a bit has somethin to do with the improved performance in this test.


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## Piece (Dec 27, 2017)

Not wishing to do a Homer but weâ€™ve had one good day in four test matches. Plus Australia were 260 odd for 3 after the first day, so thereâ€™s plenty of time for us to fluck it up :rofl:

My question at the end of series is why we included Ali in the team when he is clearly not fit to perform at his best?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2017)

Piece said:



			Not wishing to do a Homer but weâ€™ve had one good day in four test matches. Plus Australia were 260 odd for 3 after the first day, so thereâ€™s plenty of time for us to fluck it up :rofl:

My question at the end of series is why we included Ali in the team when he is clearly not fit to perform at his best?
		
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They included Ali because once again they left the best spinner at home and picked someone who had a poor season in the County Champs - they donâ€™t trust Crane so why take him.


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## pendodave (Dec 27, 2017)

louise_a said:



			I cant help thinking that the fact the series is lost and the pressure is off a bit has somethin to do with the improved performance in this test.
		
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This. They've already won. When it mattered they were much better.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2017)

pendodave said:



			This. They've already won. When it mattered they were much better.
		
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Totally agree. Depleted an Aussie attack and the equivalent of what we dished up to them in the first three matches. Happy that Cook made some runs but I still feel his run as opener must be close to an end as he's previous contributions for a period of time bar one century against a poor West Indies attack haven't been good and he's not made a decent contribution in the Ashes and set a firm base.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 27, 2017)

Well its been pleasingly quiet, at home, this morning with no gloating calls from herselfs family down below...

Not sure I am in a position, just yet, to start calling them with 'good news'...

However, I live in hope..

Been a tough few weeks...


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## Junior (Dec 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally agree. Depleted an Aussie attack and the equivalent of what we dished up to them in the first three matches. Happy that Cook made some runs but I still feel his run as opener must be close to an end as he's previous contributions for a period of time bar one century against a poor West Indies attack haven't been good and he's not made a decent contribution in the Ashes and set a firm base.
		
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So who do you bring in to replace the highest English test run scorer of all time, the 9th leading all time test run scorer and a guy with 31 test hundreds???  I just donâ€™t think there is anyone better to replace him.  If you go back to County Cricket, Cook and Stoneman are the best Englishmen by far. 

The horse may have bolted this series, but itâ€™s good to show some bottle.  That said, we seem to have a good day then a bad few days so Iâ€™m not holding my breath in this one either


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## TheDiablo (Dec 27, 2017)

Junior said:



			For sure mate.  Jennings seems to have something so I hope he gets a run when Cook decides to step down. 

Im not sure who can step up in the bowling department though.  Porter, Coad or Overton seem the ones , but I just donâ€™t think they set the world on fire. I hope they prove me wrong.  Harmer , if or when he qualifies too could be the spinner we are crying out for.

My other beef is that I think Anderson should have been captain for last Summer and this Ashes series. Let Root have the vice and have him take over.  I hate how we always burden our talisman type players with the captaincy when they are too young,
		
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Personally would have done everything to give Jennings or someone similar at no.3 this test. Vince is so far from being the answer at 3 its a joke. 

Cook will go after the 2019 Ashes IMO (along with Jimmy and possibly Broad) and by then the likes of Jennings and Robson are going to be approaching 30 by the time they even get a second run in the team.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 27, 2017)

Cook's still far and away the best opening batsman England have.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2017)

Junior said:



			So who do you bring in to replace the highest English test run scorer of all time, the 9th leading all time test run scorer and a guy with 31 test hundreds???  I just donâ€™t think there is anyone better to replace him.  If you go back to County Cricket, Cook and Stoneman are the best Englishmen by far. 

The horse may have bolted this series, but itâ€™s good to show some bottle.  That said, we seem to have a good day then a bad few days so Iâ€™m not holding my breath in this one either 

Click to expand...

His record for England isn't in doubt and over the years he has been as good as though figures show but if you look at his record aside from a century against a poor West Indies attack and a thirty something start in one Ashes innings, his scores in 2017 haven't been great and I just feel now is the time to be bringing players into the squad or what is the point of the other development sides? Give them a go, but don't bin them if they struggle early on. We know we've a few reaching the end so lets start the rebuilding process and give new players game time


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			His record for England isn't in doubt and over the years he has been as good as though figures show but if you look at his record aside from a century against a poor West Indies attack and a thirty something start in one Ashes innings, his scores in 2017 haven't been great and I just feel now is the time to be bringing players into the squad or what is the point of the other development sides? Give them a go, but don't bin them if they struggle early on. We know we've a few reaching the end so lets start the rebuilding process and give new players game time
		
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who? you keep wanting to drop him but still cant offer a replacement. is that because there isnt one?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			who? you keep wanting to drop him but still cant offer a replacement. is that because there isnt one?
		
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To be brutally honest I don't watch enough cricket but I'd have thought Hameed deserves a go


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## fundy (Dec 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be brutally honest I don't watch enough cricket but I'd have thought Hameed deserves a go
		
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So you want to drop a guy whos scored 12,000 runs and is averaging 40+ this year in test for a guy who didnt average 30 in county cricket, scores at a SR of below 2 an over, didnt score a ton in the CC and got dropped by his own county

Hameed was actually in possession until he got to the point where he got injured then couldnt get it off the square. May well be one for the future but to have thrown him into this series wouldve been ridiculous


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## TheDiablo (Dec 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be brutally honest I don't watch enough cricket but I'd have thought Hameed deserves a go
		
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Do us all a favour and if you don't know, don't comment!!

The guy you're recommending to replace the greatest English batsmen by total weight of test runs averaged less than 25 this year and had more ducks than 50s. Laughable.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			So you want to drop a guy whos scored 12,000 runs and is *averaging 40+ this year in test* for a guy who didnt average 30 in county cricket, scores at a SR of below 2 an over, didnt score a ton in the CC and got dropped by his own county

Hameed was actually in possession until he got to the point where he got injured then couldnt get it off the square. May well be one for the future but to have thrown him into this series wouldve been ridiculous
		
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I'm not dissing Cook as I think he is still the best option we've got but that average has been helped immensely by scoring 200+ in one innings against a very poor West Indies side.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2017)

TheDiablo said:



			Do us all a favour and if you don't know, don't comment!!

The guy you're recommending to replace the greatest English batsmen by total weight of test runs averaged less than 25 this year and had more ducks than 50s. Laughable.
		
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So why was he named in the Lions side. I thought a forum was open for all. If it was restricted to those that new it'll be a ghost town on here


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## richart (Dec 27, 2017)

There is no one better than Cook as an England opener. Cricket has two openers and he is the best one, not even the second best. Amazing there is a discussion considering his record and after he has just scored a ton against Australia.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 27, 2017)

richart said:



			There is no one better than Cook as an England opener. Cricket has two openers and he is the best one, not even the second best. Amazing there is a discussion considering his record and after he has just scored a ton against Australia. 

Click to expand...

Because someone who doesnâ€™t really watch cricket , doesnâ€™t know anyone that can replace him has spent the entire Ashes saying Cook should go. 

There is no one right now to replace Cook - you canâ€™t play the Aussies with two raw young Openers. Cook hasnâ€™t had his best series but he has had some snorters and he is far from the worst culprit on tour but I tbhnk someone focused on his because he doesnâ€™t really know whatâ€™s going on


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## TheDiablo (Dec 27, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So why was he named in the Lions side. I thought a forum was open for all. If it was restricted to those that new it'll be a ghost town on here
		
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Because he is still one they want to nurture for the future. But he's miles and miles away from playing tests on current form. You just happened to have heard of him. 

I know nothing about cars so scroll past those threads etc. It isn't that hard, try it sometime.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 27, 2017)

TheDiablo said:



			Because he is still one they want to nurture for the future. But he's miles and miles away from playing tests on current form. You just happened to have heard of him. 

I know nothing about cars so scroll past those threads etc. It isn't that hard, try it sometime.
		
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Nice try. I've heard about him for a while but its all good nuturing for the future but sometimes you have to give a player a chance. When will he be good enough? As for avoiding threads, I give Brexit and most of the political threads a wide berth. Ta for the advice though


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 27, 2017)

Cooks been in poor form recently but the reality is we have no one else knocking on the door and ready to replace him. A few have had their chance and they blew it. 

They are desperate to get Hameed in the team but he had the season from hell so they had to leave him behind.

There is little doubt Cook is nearing the end of his time and if we had better alternatives then he would likely have been dropped for this test but we don't so we wasn't. A good Lion's tour for someone could see them introduced in the home tests this summer. The door is certainly open in a number of positions.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2017)

horrendous shot from Root, such a daft way to open the door for them


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## Don Barzini (Dec 28, 2017)

What a great day for England, especially the batting performance by Cook. 

Iâ€™m optimistic that we might just sneak a draw from here!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2017)

Superb once again from Cook - some great shots and very well supported by Woakes and Broad to give England a decent lead 

Root though - another silly shot when looking to convert a 60 into a ton - happening a lot 

These are also great words from Micheal Slater in regards England and Cook especially 

https://twitter.com/btsportcricket/status/946289163082416128


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## Dando (Dec 28, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So why was he named in the Lions side. I thought a forum was open for all. If it was restricted to those that new it'll be a ghost town on here
		
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Imho Hameed shouldnâ€™t be anywhere the lions squad let alone the test team. Heâ€™s simply not good enough and scores too slowly which puts pressure on the other batsmen.

although he plays div 2, Bell-Drummond is a quality player and should be given a try soon


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## Junior (Dec 28, 2017)

TheDiablo said:



			The guy you're recommending to replace the greatest English batsmen by total weight of test runs averaged less than 25 this year and had more ducks than 50s. Laughable.
		
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He's been unlucky with injury, but, I'd add that he played 6 games or so in league cricket for Formby and didn't score above 35. 

He needs a couple more 1000+ CC seasons under his belt,  a lions tour then he'll be ready to step into cooks shoes.


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## fundy (Dec 28, 2017)

just watched the highlights having stayed up until lunch, massively impressive from Cook however much people want to downplay his achievement on the pitch, series being over and depleted aussie attack etc

massive mental strength to score runs and when he does make it a big un


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## Karl102 (Dec 28, 2017)

Very pleased for Cook. An English legend in his own right!
The fact is that county cricket are not finding or bringing through enough world class talent. It a similar vain to footy, counties buy in overseas players for a period (its unusual to have an overseas for a full season unless they are retired from international cricket) instead of brining through young players. There is a bigger gulf now between the 2 divisions and the schedule of international cricket and international t20 lucrative deals has scuppered English cricket. We were top of the world 10 yrs ago with world beating bowlers and batsmen and now we struggle to replace players without scraping the county barrel. 
Think of a bowler like Tymal Mills, I know he has a bad back and has been unlucky, but imagine him runnng in at 90 mph if he could play 5 day cricket.... who in county cricket can bowl 90mph plus consistently!
itâ€™s the same for batsmen not being able to ply their trade in championship cricket against top bowling. I remember waqar younis is getting 100 wks in a season and Wasim ripping through teams for lancs.  imagine being a young potential English cricketer facing these 2 week in week out. 
I wonder how Hales or Roy would do in the middle order instead of Malan? I think their would be no difference.
The demands of the international scheduling has a lot to answer for. I also think the world wide t20 franchises will have a lot more to answer for in the coming years.


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## Tongo (Dec 28, 2017)

Karl102 said:



			Very pleased for Cook. An English legend in his own right!
The fact is that county cricket are not finding or bringing through enough world class talent. It a similar vain to footy, counties buy in overseas players for a period (its unusual to have an overseas for a full season unless they are retired from international cricket) instead of brining through young players. There is a bigger gulf now between the 2 divisions and the schedule of international cricket and international t20 lucrative deals has scuppered English cricket. We were top of the world 10 yrs ago with world beating bowlers and batsmen and now we struggle to replace players without scraping the county barrel. 
Think of a bowler like Tymal Mills, I know he has a bad back and has been unlucky, but imagine him runnng in at 90 mph if he could play 5 day cricket.... who in county cricket can bowl 90mph plus consistently!
itâ€™s the same for batsmen not being able to ply their trade in championship cricket against top bowling. I remember waqar younis is getting 100 wks in a season and Wasim ripping through teams for lancs.  imagine being a young potential English cricketer facing these 2 week in week out. 
I wonder how Hales or Roy would do in the middle order instead of Malan? I think their would be no difference.
The demands of the international scheduling has a lot to answer for. I also think the world wide t20 franchises will have a lot more to answer for in the coming years.
		
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County cricket is an easy scapegoat but i think its more complicated than that. England's players are forever getting injured / losing pace. Steve Finn blamed the latter on the county circuit but surely the year round grind is the contributory factor? After all this is the same county circuit that didnt blunt the pace of Waqar, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Hadlee etc etc and they played more games. For me the English set up simply isnt working. Not the county game but the training and the pigeon holing of players. England are risk averse and would rather play players who are solid without being spectacular. Ali has been seriously found out this series with bat and ball and every time England go away he looks out of his depth. Quite why Rashid didnt go is anyone's guess. England needed a wicket taking spinner in Oz rather than one who will hold up an end. But Rashid can be expensive so England's selectors dont want to take the risk. Ultimately it is the ECB that should be held to account. Its their set up, their county game, their performance centre at Luffbrough. But they will shockingly distance themselves from the domestic game whilst Tom Harrison says everything is fine. (What does he know about the actual playing side of cricket?!)


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## Karl102 (Dec 28, 2017)

Tongo said:



			County cricket is an easy scapegoat but i think its more complicated than that. England's players are forever getting injured / losing pace. Steve Finn blamed the latter on the county circuit but surely the year round grind is the contributory factor? After all this is the same county circuit that didnt blunt the pace of Waqar, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Hadlee etc etc and they played more games. For me the English set up simply isnt working. Not the county game but the training and the pigeon holing of players. England are risk averse and would rather play players who are solid without being spectacular. Ali has been seriously found out this series with bat and ball and every time England go away he looks out of his depth. Quite why Rashid didnt go is anyone's guess. England needed a wicket taking spinner in Oz rather than one who will hold up an end. But Rashid can be expensive so England's selectors dont want to take the risk. Ultimately it is the ECB that should be held to account. Its their set up, their county game, their performance centre at Luffbrough. But they will shockingly distance themselves from the domestic game whilst Tom Harrison says everything is fine. (What does he know about the actual playing side of cricket?!)
		
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I totally agree and Finn, Tremlett are good examples! Counties do have a duty (and plenty of cash from the ecb) to provide a solid youth foundation and coaching set up. Would be interesting to look at how many of the current team and U19â€™s came through the ranks and those that come through other means. When me and our kid had some time with Lancashire U19â€™s the vast majority of the team were from traditional grammar school backgrounds a la Mike atherton and John Crawley. Itâ€™s hard to break the norm and I donâ€™t know if itâ€™s the same now as it was 20 years ago!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2017)

Hats off to Cook and great to see him carry on and break those records. However he was honest enough to suggest had he failed in this match that he'd be dropped. I wonder if he can keep going tomorrow. I still think he's been far to inconsistent in 2017 but if he can take this form forward then it bodes well. That I think will be the bigger challenge


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## Digger (Dec 28, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hats off to Cook and great to see him carry on and break those records. However he was honest enough to suggest had he failed in this match that he'd be dropped. I wonder if he can keep going tomorrow. I still think he's been far to inconsistent in 2017 but if he can take this form forward then it bodes well. That I think will be the bigger challenge
		
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I think it's more of a case of whether Jimmy can keep going. I fear Cook will run out of partners.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2017)

Digger said:



			I think it's more of a case of whether Jimmy can keep going. I fear Cook will run out of partners.
		
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Up to Cook to rotate the strike but let's see what happens


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 28, 2017)

Karl102 said:



			I totally agree and Finn, Tremlett are good examples! Counties do have a duty (and plenty of cash from the ecb) to provide a solid youth foundation and coaching set up. Would be interesting to look at how many of the current team and U19â€™s came through the ranks and those that come through other means. When me and our kid had some time with Lancashire U19â€™s the vast majority of the team were from traditional grammar school backgrounds a la Mike atherton and John Crawley. Itâ€™s hard to break the norm and I donâ€™t know if itâ€™s the same now as it was 20 years ago!
		
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Hardly surprising as the State schools barely play any cricket. 

My two sons played for Leics from U11 to U19 and the squads were always a mix of those produced by the Independent schools and the Clubs.

This seemed to work well and produced some pretty useful players although there was always the one concern. 

Too many coaches want to focus on what players can't do rather than further developing a player's existing talents.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 28, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Too many coaches want to focus on what players can't do rather than further developing a player's existing talents.
		
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Isn't that the case in too many sports these days. Don't think cricket is alone with that


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## Tongo (Dec 28, 2017)

MetalMickie said:



			Hardly surprising as the State schools barely play any cricket. 

My two sons played for Leics from U11 to U19 and the squads were always a mix of those produced by the Independent schools and the Clubs.

This seemed to work well and produced some pretty useful players although there was always the one concern. 

Too many coaches want to focus on what players can't do rather than further developing a player's existing talents.
		
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You do wonder how far Steve Smith, with his idiosyncracies and unorthodox style, would have got in English cricket. What with all the 'coaching' and everything.


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## Piece (Dec 28, 2017)

Tongo said:



			You do wonder how far Steve Smith, with his idiosyncracies and unorthodox style, would have got in English cricket. What with all the 'coaching' and everything.
		
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Yes good point. When he first made the test squad, he was an all rounder and touted as a decent leggy. He was an awful batsman, a walking wicket. Told to ditch the bowling and focus on his strength as a batsman...worked quite well Iâ€™d say.

I remember the time our coaches tried to correct Jimmyâ€™s delivery action, making him more upright and looking at the pitch on delivery. He was flucked for a few years as he was dazed and confused. Botham said at the time, just leave him alone and let him do his natural thing.

My biggest bug bear is that our recent crop of players just donâ€™t move their feet enough for test match cricket. Get your feet moving to the pitch with your head in line and youâ€™ve a great start for a test technique.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2017)

I grew up playing cricket in the early 80's and batsmen were taught to play like Boycott and bowlers like Hadlee. Those days are long gone. Rather like golf swings coaches now allow them to have their own style and work with what they have.

Coaching has never been better, facilities have never been better. You need to look elsewhere for reasons why England have lost.


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## Tongo (Dec 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I grew up playing cricket in the early 80's and batsmen were taught to play like Boycott and bowlers like Hadlee. Those days are long gone. Rather like golf swings coaches now allow them to have their own style and work with what they have.

Coaching has never been better, facilities have never been better. You need to look elsewhere for reasons why England have lost.
		
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The simple answer is that Australia have got better bowlers to exploit their home conditions and they also have the best batsman on the planet. Bowlers win test matches, especially if there is one high quality batsman consistently producing. England's bowlers cannot match the Aussies for pace but they simply havent bowled well enough. Glenn McGrath took plenty of wickets in Oz despite being not much more than medium pace but he was class enough to put the ball on the money the majority of the time. If you havent got pace then you must be accurate and England's bowlers havent been. Plus Rashid should have played as the front line spinner but, as i said earlier, that was too much of a risk.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 28, 2017)

Tongo said:



			You do wonder how far Steve Smith, with his idiosyncracies and unorthodox style, would have got in English cricket. What with all the 'coaching' and everything.
		
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Absolutely.

An example. At the age of 14 my elder son (Number 4 or 5 batsman) was criticised by one of the coaches for scoring 40 in11 balls. 4x6, 3x4, 2x2 when every shot was hit in the V. At the time the team were looking to accelerate in order to set a target. 

Apparently he was running a risk of disturbing the  concentration of his partner who had scored 87 in 30 odd overs of a 50 overs match.

Funnily enough he received a more positive response from the other County's coach.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2017)

Tongo said:



			The simple answer is that Australia have got better bowlers to exploit their home conditions and they also have the best batsman on the planet. Bowlers win test matches, especially if there is one high quality batsman consistently producing. England's bowlers cannot match the Aussies for pace but they simply havent bowled well enough. Glenn McGrath took plenty of wickets in Oz despite being not much more than medium pace but he was class enough to put the ball on the money the majority of the time. If you havent got pace then you must be accurate and England's bowlers havent been. Plus Rashid should have played as the front line spinner but, as i said earlier, that was too much of a risk.
		
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Wouldn't argue with that. 

Not sure Rashid is the answer but we have little else and he would have been worth a go. The alternative has failed badly. Way too conservative an approach.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Wouldn't argue with that. 

Not sure Rashid is the answer but we have little else and he would have been worth a go. The alternative has failed badly. Way too conservative an approach.
		
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Jack Leach was the one to take or even Dom Bess if they refuse to trust Leach


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## Deleted member 18588 (Dec 28, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jack Leach was the one to take or even Dom Bess if they refuse to trust Leach
		
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Don't think the Aussie groundsmen would have been quite as, how shall I put it, co-operative as the guy at Taunton &#128521;


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## TheDiablo (Dec 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I grew up playing cricket in the early 80's and batsmen were taught to play like Boycott and bowlers like Hadlee. Those days are long gone. Rather like golf swings coaches now allow them to have their own style and work with what they have.

Coaching has never been better, facilities have never been better. You need to look elsewhere for reasons why England have lost.
		
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Don't quite agree to be honest. Yes, facilities have never been better. But those that come through the 'system' all look like the same bowler. They all try to get moulded into what the stats say a 'perfect' fast bowler is in the technical sense. Only have to look at how they messed with Jimmy, Finn and Plunkett (plus countless juniors we never got the chance to see because their idiosyncrasies were coached out of them).

It's also a massive reason why we can't produce any spinners (along with the CC pitches). 

I don't know much about the equivalent methods for batsmen in the coaching system but I'd be surprised if the mentality differs at all. 

England cricket has been obsessed with coaching their specific methods regardless of individuality for the last 10 years and there's very little to show for it.


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## Junior (Dec 28, 2017)

Another factor is that it used to be that if a CC pitch spins massively on day one then the County are fined and deducted points.  Thankfully this has changed now.  For me, there should be a few pitches up and down the country that turn, and thus encourage the development of spin bowlers.  After all, day 1 pitches in India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh all spin from the get go, and the role of the CC should be to produce a competitive England team. 

Harmer will Iâ€™ll be the next cab off the rank when he qualifies to play for England.  Just a personal opinion , but I never got the love for Rashid in test cricket.  Keep an eye on Parknson at Lancs too.


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## User2021 (Dec 29, 2017)

If the rain stays away, we may get a game.

Be nice to get them out and want 100 or so from 20 overs to win come the afternoon.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 29, 2017)

jobr1850 said:



			If the rain stays away, we may get a game.

Be nice to get them out and want 100 or so from 20 overs to win come the afternoon.
		
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Not sure but an early wicket (play permitting) and with them still 50 or so behind could make it interesting. Another after that and we've got to have chances. What's the forecast


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 30, 2017)

Another dead wicket kills a test match. Happens too often over here for us to get self righteous but still disappointing. The good news is that at least it is no longer going to be a whitewash &#128513;


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## TheDiablo (Jan 4, 2018)

So James Vince doing James Vince things again. Death, taxes, and Vince wafting outside off. 

Considering he was a horses for courses selection, the manner of his dismissals for a no. 3 is consistently shocking. Managing to nick off time and again after getting somewhat set without any sideways movement out there is a real worry. Its not a wonder he was found out in England and I'd be amazed if he held his place for the English summer.


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## Junior (Jan 4, 2018)

TheDiablo said:



			So James Vince doing James Vince things again. Death, taxes, and Vince wafting outside off. 

Considering he was a horses for courses selection, the manner of his dismissals for a no. 3 is consistently shocking. Managing to nick off time and again after getting somewhat set without any sideways movement out there is a real worry. Its not a wonder he was found out in England and I'd be amazed if he held his place for the English summer.
		
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Yep.  I agree.  I can't moan as I preach about giving players a chance and consistency of selection.  I would have liked to have seen Foakes given a go though.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jan 4, 2018)

Groundhog day....


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## TheDiablo (Jan 4, 2018)

Junior said:



			Yep.  I agree.  I can't moan as I preach about giving players a chance and consistency of selection.  I would have liked to have seen Foakes given a go though.
		
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I fully agree with giving players consistency and a proper chance, but I think he's had that now. It would be different if he was getting out in different ways, but the same weakness over and over which is one very easily exploited by test match bowlers means he'll never score until it's sorted. Sure, if he goes away and scores buckets of runs and demonstrates he has made strides in correcting the shot and there's a spot in the team then give him another go - I'm definitely not one to shut the door on anyone fully but for now I think the famous definition of insanity applies to the selectors re Vince.

Agree with giving Foakes a chance too. I would personally have dropped Alli for this test. YJB could do with feeling some pressure on his place IMO, I think he is very comfortable in the role theyve given him and hasnt kicked on like I thought he would. Pretty sure he is averaging 30 in the last year (20 innings) which isnt good enough to be a specialist batsmen which he may need to become. His best performances came when he needed to make sure the selectors couldnt ignore him anymore so he could do with that mentality again.


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## Junior (Jan 4, 2018)

TheDiablo said:



			I fully agree with giving players consistency and a proper chance, but I think he's had that now. It would be different if he was getting out in different ways, but the same weakness over and over which is one very easily exploited by test match bowlers means he'll never score until it's sorted. Sure, if he goes away and scores buckets of runs and demonstrates he has made strides in correcting the shot and there's a spot in the team then give him another go - I'm definitely not one to shut the door on anyone fully but for now I think the famous definition of insanity applies to the selectors re Vince.

Agree with giving Foakes a chance too. I would personally have dropped Alli for this test. YJB could do with feeling some pressure on his place IMO, I think he is very comfortable in the role theyve given him and hasnt kicked on like I thought he would. Pretty sure he is averaging 30 in the last year (20 innings) which isnt good enough to be a specialist batsmen which he may need to become. His best performances came when he needed to make sure the selectors couldnt ignore him anymore so he could do with that mentality again.
		
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Can't disagree with any of that.  Would you have moved Malan to 3 and brought Foakes in at 5 ?   

I think that the fact Stokes is missing has resulted in them having to play Moeen despite him not appearing to be match fit.  The bowling looks light in this test.  I'm not sold on Curran but I hope Crane can perform and not be another Kerrigan.


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## Tongo (Jan 4, 2018)

TheDiablo said:



			I fully agree with giving players consistency and a proper chance, but I think he's had that now. It would be different if he was getting out in different ways, but the same weakness over and over which is one very easily exploited by test match bowlers means he'll never score until it's sorted. Sure, if he goes away and scores buckets of runs and demonstrates he has made strides in correcting the shot and there's a spot in the team then give him another go - I'm definitely not one to shut the door on anyone fully but for now I think the famous definition of insanity applies to the selectors re Vince.

Agree with giving Foakes a chance too. I would personally have dropped Alli for this test. YJB could do with feeling some pressure on his place IMO, I think he is very comfortable in the role theyve given him and hasnt kicked on like I thought he would. Pretty sure he is averaging 30 in the last year (20 innings) which isnt good enough to be a specialist batsmen which he may need to become. His best performances came when he needed to make sure the selectors couldnt ignore him anymore so he could do with that mentality again.
		
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Junior said:



			Can't disagree with any of that.  Would you have moved Malan to 3 and brought Foakes in at 5 ?   

I think that the fact Stokes is missing has resulted in them having to play Moeen despite him not appearing to be match fit.  The bowling looks light in this test.  I'm not sold on Curran but I hope Crane can perform and not be another Kerrigan.
		
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Vince's cause has not been helped by Root refusing to take some responsibility and bat at 3. Perhaps Root wants his mate Ballance to get the 400th chance to show that he's not up to test match cricket. 

Ali being picked was brainless. Awful with bat and ball and not fully fit. But the selectors are running scared of a long tail. Which is ironic was Ali looks like a walking wicket. Foakes should have received a chance. 

As for the two late wickets, such poor shots from two of England's more experienced players shows a lack of simple test match nous. England just dont do the simple things and they have been punished. But England have looked naive and lacking nous the whole tour, on and off the field. 

The whole nightwatchman thing is irrelevant for me and a smokescreen for such poor play from Root and Bairstow.


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## Karl102 (Jan 4, 2018)

Going to watch the highlights in a minute, but it looks like another case of batsmen getting starts but failing to get a big score.
All out for 350 with the Aussies racking up 550 ??? Cynical I know.... 
I just donâ€™t think there are many other options out there other than Foakes. Malan is not a number 3 and Skipper prefers 4... 

On another note.... get Archer in the team..... Ripping up the Big Bash.. chucking them down at 90mph. Deffo get him in for the one dayers!!!


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			Going to watch the highlights in a minute, but it looks like another case of batsmen getting starts but failing to get a big score.
All out for 350 with the Aussies racking up 550 ??? Cynical I know.... 
I just donâ€™t think there are many other options out there other than Foakes. Malan is not a number 3 and Skipper prefers 4... 

On another note.... get Archer in the team..... Ripping up the Big Bash.. chucking them down at 90mph. Deffo get him in for the one dayers!!!
		
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archer a few years from qualifying to play for england, would be in the squad otherwise (and will make a fortune in t20 before he qualifies he may not bother with tests)

flat enough deck for sure, 400 looked a bare minimum and that looks a long way away. our attack looks threadbare at best, could be hard work in the field for sure


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## Tongo (Jan 4, 2018)

fundy said:



			archer a few years from qualifying to play for england, would be in the squad otherwise (and will make a fortune in t20 before he qualifies he may not bother with tests)

flat enough deck for sure, 400 looked a bare minimum and that looks a long way away. our attack looks threadbare at best, could be hard work in the field for sure
		
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The actual quality of the cricket in the Big Bash is also fairly low. Archer looks a very good cricketer but the BBL isnt the best comp to judge him on.


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## fundy (Jan 4, 2018)

Tongo said:



			The actual quality of the cricket in the Big Bash is also fairly low. Archer looks a very good cricketer but the BBL isnt the best comp to judge him on.
		
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its very variable for sure the big bash (especially archers own catching!!!)

archer has the one quality that is worth gold and thats genuine pace, caused plenty of problems wherever hes played


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2018)

Aussies to post huge first innings lead and bat us out the game and given themselves a day and a half to bowl us out. Predicting 4-0 unless the weather helps


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## Karl102 (Jan 7, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			Going to watch the highlights in a minute, but it looks like another case of batsmen getting starts but failing to get a big score.
All out for 350 with the Aussies racking up 550 ???
		
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I was nearly right! They racked up 650! I think we could be in for a difficult Summer. Any retirements looming?!? Anderson/Broad/Cook?!!?


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			I was nearly right! They racked up 650! I think we could be in for a difficult Summer. Any retirements looming?!? Anderson/Broad/Cook?!!?
		
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when you backed 650 and over sigh lol

Dont see them going anywhere, Broad an outside chance, think the other two definitely carry on. Will be far more comfortable in home conditions against asian touring teams


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2018)

Donâ€™t expect any of them to retire but I do hope there are some changes 

Need to find number 3 - give Malan a go there - Trego has posted a great tweet - James Hildreth has had 41 tons and 15,000 first class runs - if he was playing for Surrey he would have been given a go - at 33 is it worth him coming in for 3/4 years ( even though he shoold have been given a chance a decade ago ) 

And give Leach a go - I donâ€™t think there is another spinner who had taken more wickets over the last two seasons 

Two players who if they were with a more fashionable County would be down under right now


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## User2021 (Jan 7, 2018)

All over by lunch I would guess


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 7, 2018)

jobr1850 said:



			All over by lunch I would guess
		
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Might lag it into the afternoon session at best. I wonder how long some can keep going (Anderson, Broad) and how many will be dropped. Would it not suit Root to drop the captaincy and get back to doing making runs regularly?


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## Karl102 (Jan 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t expect any of them to retire but I do hope there are some changes 

Need to find number 3 - give Malan a go there - Trego has posted a great tweet - James Hildreth has had 41 tons and 15,000 first class runs - if he was playing for Surrey he would have been given a go - at 33 is it worth him coming in for 3/4 years ( even though he shoold have been given a chance a decade ago ) 

And give Leach a go - I donâ€™t think there is another spinner who had taken more wickets over the last two seasons 

Two players who if they were with a more fashionable County would be down under right now
		
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I agree about Leach and Hildreth. Too many old guard saying Hildreth got his runs on a flat Taunton track.... who cares... runs are runs!
I still think the County Chamionship is flawed....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2018)

Karl102 said:



			I agree about Leach and Hildreth. Too many old guard saying Hildreth got his runs on a flat Taunton track.... who cares... runs are runs!
I still think the County Chamionship is flawed....
		
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It is funny they say that Hildreth got his runs on a flat wicket yet for Leach its a spinning wicket ! it cant be both. Its shocking how he was ignored for 10 years for any format


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It is funny they say that Hildreth got his runs on a flat wicket yet for Leach its a spinning wicket ! it cant be both. Its shocking how he was ignored for 10 years for any format
		
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so youre saying the wicket hildreth has got runs on for 10 yrs plus is the same one leach has got wickets on the last 2 years. as you well know the taunton deck of the last 2 years is unrecognisable to the one before


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 7, 2018)

fundy said:



			so youre saying the wicket hildreth has got runs on for 10 yrs plus is the same one leach has got wickets on the last 2 years. as you well know the taunton deck of the last 2 years is unrecognisable to the one before
		
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Yes the pitch has changed and itâ€™s helped Leach and Bess to improve as bowlers but Hildreth has got runs all over the country and even at one stage during a England development tour was hitting tons in India or Pakistan. To not even get picked for one tour or be given one Test is shocking when you look at how many chances people like Ballance and Bopara got - if Hildreth was at Surrey/Yorkshire then he would have been in a few Test parties. 

Players have historically been looked down at from Somerset because of the feelings about Taunton being flat and friendly for batters and now a pitch that is â€œdoctoredâ€ if you listen to some.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 7, 2018)

If I was coach to the Lions team I'd have the easiest team talk in sport. Score runs, plenty of spots available in the Test team. 

Can't think of a time when so many spots are up for grabs.


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes the pitch has changed and itâ€™s helped Leach and Bess to improve as bowlers but Hildreth has got runs all over the country and even at one stage during a England development tour was hitting tons in India or Pakistan. To not even get picked for one tour or be given one Test is shocking when you look at how many chances people like Ballance and Bopara got - if Hildreth was at Surrey/Yorkshire then he would have been in a few Test parties. 

Players have historically been looked down at from Somerset because of the feelings about Taunton being flat and friendly for batters and now a pitch that is â€œdoctoredâ€ if you listen to some.
		
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Well that may be because it was flat and friendly for batters previously and for the last 2 years has been doctored to some degree, how many other county grounds have spinners opened the bowling at in the last 2 years?

Maybe hildreth did deserve a shot, doesnt stop the comments about taunton being true (albeit its one of my fav grounds to visit)


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## fundy (Jan 7, 2018)

Root in hospital with dehydration it seems


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## TheDiablo (Jan 7, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Donâ€™t expect any of them to retire but I do hope there are some changes 

Need to find number 3 - give Malan a go there - Trego has posted a great tweet - James Hildreth has had 41 tons and 15,000 first class runs - if he was playing for Surrey he would have been given a go - at 33 is it worth him coming in for 3/4 years ( even though he shoold have been given a chance a decade ago ) 

And give Leach a go - I donâ€™t think there is another spinner who had taken more wickets over the last two seasons 

Two players who if they were with a more fashionable County would be down under right now
		
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Hildreth is definitely the most talented bastmen of his generation not to have an England cap. But his peak years coincided with a very strong, stable batting line up who were all better than him, and every time there was a sniff he had a bad season. If he was 25 now he'd be in that team undoubtedly, but at 32 the 2017 season was his last realistic chance to get in the side and he averaged 30ish when for the first time in a number of years the England middle order was crying out for someone to stick their hand up and demand selection he didnt deliver.

Happy to be corrected but I dont remember him scoring any runs for Lions at all other than when he scored against the village islands in the West Indies that I'd fancy myself left handed against, and even then on return as next cab off the rank had his worst season in years.

He could have been given a go a couple of years ago but I think the selectors were right in trying youth options first whilst there was still some experience in the remaining spots for them to learn from (they just havent been very good!!). 

Mixture of bad luck (timing) with not quite taking his chance when there was a sniff. Who knows what couldve been but thats a ship that has sailed now - IMO we shouldnt be giving international debuts to people that will turn 34 this year.


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## Piece (Jan 8, 2018)

Only a year and a bit until we get them over here! Looks we need green tops and cloud to have any chance!

Seriously though, we've been mullered. I do laugh when the senior players say the series has been closer than results say. No it hasn't. We have had some good sessions and one or two good days, a very small percentage of the actual time though. Bowling has been poor taking nearly a record low total in a series I understand? Batting not much better. 

Basic selection questions were asked after the squad was announced and largely they came true. Vince had one good knock and then showed nothing had changed in his technique. Ballance was just making tea all trip. Ali was a passenger and you have to question why play him when unfit? Would like to have seen Foakes given a go. As suggested by others there's not too much else around, but Leach and or Rashid should have gone. Crane...what is his future? I can't offer too much more as I didn't see any of the series (no BT), but seems like the strange squad selection panned out expected. I also I think we need to look at Bayliss...poor win ratio and thus has to be questioned if he is the right man. Being an Aussie could we expect better prep and results from this tour??

Worse thing is that Lyon's pre-series mouth off about thrashing England and ending some careers is coming true...


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## User2021 (Jan 8, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can't think of a time when so many spots are up for grabs.
		
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Totally agree and this should be the case, however I am unsure the old guard in charge will agree or make the required changes.


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## Tongo (Jan 8, 2018)

Piece said:



			Only a year and a bit until we get them over here! Looks we need green tops and cloud to have any chance!

Seriously though, we've been mullered. I do laugh when the senior players say the series has been closer than results say. No it hasn't. We have had some good sessions and one or two good days, a very small percentage of the actual time though. Bowling has been poor taking nearly a record low total in a series I understand? Batting not much better. 

Basic selection questions were asked after the squad was announced and largely they came true. Vince had one good knock and then showed nothing had changed in his technique. Ballance was just making tea all trip. Ali was a passenger and you have to question why play him when unfit? Would like to have seen Foakes given a go. As suggested by others there's not too much else around, but Leach and or Rashid should have gone. Crane...what is his future? I can't offer too much more as I didn't see any of the series (no BT), but seems like the strange squad selection panned out expected. I also I think we need to look at Bayliss...poor win ratio and thus has to be questioned if he is the right man. Being an Aussie could we expect better prep and results from this tour??

Worse thing is that Lyon's pre-series mouth off about thrashing England and ending some careers is coming true...
		
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The guff from players saying the series was close is symptomatic of England at the moment. Tom Harrison (what does he actually know about cricket?) comes out and says English cricket is in rude health and everyone else seems to toe the party line. Its disingenuous and insulting to members of the public who watch the game, play the game and know the truth is far different from what is said to the media.


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## Junior (Jan 8, 2018)

Yes itâ€™s an excuse but its amazing how strong teams are at home, and then poor away.  

We beat South Africa, they have just won the first test against India at home.  India are seemingly unbeatable in India.  This Australian team thatâ€™s battered us drew in Bangladesh only last year.

Are things as bad as 4nil suggest , or, is it just ridiculously hard to win away from home....?


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## fundy (Jan 8, 2018)

Junior said:



			Yes itâ€™s an excuse but its amazing how strong teams are at home, and then poor away.  

We beat South Africa, they have just won the first test against India at home.  India are seemingly unbeatable in India.  This Australian team thatâ€™s battered us drew in Bangladesh only last year.

Are things as bad as 4nil suggest , or, is it just ridiculously hard to win away from home....?
		
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india blew their best chance in SA earlier, chasing 200 on the ground most likely to suit on the tour, again home conditions worth weight in gold especially as SA played a large chunk of the game a bowler down


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## Captainron (Jan 8, 2018)

Junior said:



			Yes itâ€™s an excuse but its amazing how strong teams are at home, and then poor away.  

We beat South Africa, they have just won the first test against India at home.  India are seemingly unbeatable in India.  This Australian team thatâ€™s battered us drew in Bangladesh only last year.

Are things as bad as 4nil suggest , or, is it just ridiculously hard to win away from home....?
		
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South Africa were well under strength for that tour.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 8, 2018)

Junior said:



			Yes itâ€™s an excuse but its amazing how strong teams are at home, and then poor away.  

We beat South Africa, they have just won the first test against India at home.  India are seemingly unbeatable in India.  This Australian team thatâ€™s battered us drew in Bangladesh only last year.

Are things as bad as 4nil suggest , or, is it just ridiculously hard to win away from home....?
		
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I donâ€™t think things are as bad as 4 Nil suggests

That Aussie team would have lost in England 

In the last 8 Ashes series only one away Team has won - England 

Teams at home are going to be very strong - the conditions and pitches will suit the Home team , itâ€™s going to take a very good away team to win a series away


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## TheDiablo (Jan 8, 2018)

Junior said:



			Yes itâ€™s an excuse but its amazing how strong teams are at home, and then poor away.  

We beat South Africa, they have just won the first test against India at home.  India are seemingly unbeatable in India.  This Australian team thatâ€™s battered us drew in Bangladesh only last year.

Are things as bad as 4nil suggest , or, is it just ridiculously hard to win away from home....?
		
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It's inevitable really. 

England produce good seam bowlers and batsmen that are better than the rest of the world at playing a moving ball. 

India produce good spinners and wristy batsmen with good footwork 

Australia produce fast bowlers and batsmen good at playing the short ball.

Conditions. 

As LP says above, it takes a pretty exceptional side to win away with any consistency.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2018)

4-0 and not as bad as it sounds? Really. Bowlers incapable of bowling a team out twice and yet more than capable of being skittled out cheaply. Surely not playing the short ball as per the Aussie wickets is a flaw in technique and it isn't like the selectors wouldn't have known what the conditions would be like. We simply didn't play well enough


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## Junior (Jan 9, 2018)

Captainron said:



			South Africa were well under strength for that tour.
		
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A little batting wise.. Amla, Dekock, Elgar, faf all played but no AB (faf was injured for one test I think)  but your bowling was the same, although Philander got injured for Old Trafford.

You kindly played DeBruyn though lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 9, 2018)

Bayliss has announced he is not going to renew his contract, it finishes summer 2019 . How much credibility will he have between now and then? If he makes that announcement then he leaves at the end of this tour. If he doesn't want to do that then shut up. Very odd.


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## Tongo (Jan 9, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bayliss has announced he is not going to renew his contract, it finishes summer 2019 . How much credibility will he have between now and then? If he makes that announcement then he leaves at the end of this tour. If he doesn't want to do that then shut up. Very odd.
		
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Quite clever really. Arguably makes it harder to sack him seeing as he's announced when he's going.


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## Tongo (Jan 9, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			4-0 and not as bad as it sounds? Really. Bowlers incapable of bowling a team out twice and yet more than capable of being skittled out cheaply. Surely not playing the short ball as per the Aussie wickets is a flaw in technique and it isn't like the selectors wouldn't have known what the conditions would be like. We simply didn't play well enough
		
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Its also the amount of times (the last 2 winters) that England have won the toss, batted first and lost by an innings that is concerning. They're not losing close games, they are getting battered. Australia may well lose over here in 2019 but they will be competitive. Look at the last few series over here: 3-2, 3-0 (and that flattered England), 2-1 and 2-1.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Its also the amount of times (the last 2 winters) that England have won the toss, batted first and lost by an innings that is concerning. They're not losing close games, they are getting battered. Australia may well lose over here in 2019 but they will be competitive. Look at the last few series over here: 3-2, 3-0 (and that flattered England), 2-1 and 2-1.
		
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On current form they'd come over here be competitive and retain


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 9, 2018)

Not so sure Homer. English green tops, wobbling ball, their quicks neutralized by our slower wickets. Different game over here, as it is for our lads over there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 9, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not so sure Homer. English green tops, wobbling ball, their quicks neutralized by our slower wickets. Different game over here, as it is for our lads over there.
		
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Exactly - when we went down there in the previous Ashes we were proper mullered and all the talk was about the Aussies domination but then they arrived and were beaten again - the same two teams this winter would produce a different result if it was in England


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not so sure Homer. English green tops, wobbling ball, their quicks neutralized by our slower wickets. Different game over here, as it is for our lads over there.
		
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Very true but in three of the last four there were very competitive and you could argue that for a bit of good fortune could have nicked at least one series. What would concern me is that we could be in a state of transition with a number of current players perhaps out or on the way out and new blood trying to find their way. The Aussies look like they'll have a more experienced and rounded squad


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## Tongo (Jan 9, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Very true but in three of the last four there were very competitive and you could argue that for a bit of good fortune could have nicked at least one series. What would concern me is that we could be in a state of transition with a number of current players perhaps out or on the way out and new blood trying to find their way. The Aussies look like they'll have a more experienced and rounded squad
		
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The green tops isnt really the case though is it as the Ashes are always played in the latter half of the summer on pitches rolled to within an inch of their life so as to last 5 days, i.e. the dreaded chairman's pitch to maximise revenue. Thus decent pace could prove crucial.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2018)

Tongo said:



			The green tops isnt really the case though is it as the Ashes are always played in the latter half of the summer on pitches rolled to within an inch of their life so as to last 5 days, i.e. the dreaded chairman's pitch to maximise revenue. Thus decent pace could prove crucial.
		
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Wasn't me that mentioned the green tops but I agree, especially places like the Oval. I think England need to be bold and start looking towards the next Ashes and start planning and replacing accordingly


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## Tongo (Jan 9, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Wasn't me that mentioned the green tops but I agree*, especially places like the Oval. I think England need to be bold and start looking towards the next Ashes and start planning and replacing accordingly
		
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Yeah i know, i just latched onto the last post!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 9, 2018)

I fess up, it was me. Lazy writing as I know we don't do green tops any more. There is usually something to help Jimmy and Stu to move it around though. Broad is more seam than swing and he needs something to help him out. Either way we get naff all movement down under yet move it all over back in Blighty. It's not all atmospheric.


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## fundy (Jan 10, 2018)

only the ECB could release a test squad and not have a picture of one of the players theyve picked lol

feels a bit harsh on Curran being discarded

https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/590619?u...utm_campaign=England v New Zealand Tests 2018


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 10, 2018)

Still no Leach though and Crane again 

Would have sent Ali and Woakes Home as well and kept Curran


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## fundy (Jan 10, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still no Leach though and Crane again 

Would have sent Ali and Woakes Home as well and kept Curran
		
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wouldve been harsh to be picked away to NZ as a spinner where gonna bowl very few overs, of all the places it makes sense to pick ali as the part time spinner its NZ. conditions likely to suit woakes too if hes fully fit

see theyre still happy to pick Stokes, just emphasises how unfair Ducketts treatment was

this article a decent opinion piece on the ecb for me

https://beingoutsidecricket.com/2018/01/10/the-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/


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## patricks148 (Jan 11, 2018)

Best part for me about the last ashes series was its wasn't on Sky, i rarely see the sport pages of a newspaper that will report it... so it never happened as far as i'm concerned


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## Tongo (Jan 11, 2018)

fundy said:



			wouldve been harsh to be picked away to NZ as a spinner where gonna bowl very few overs, of all the places it makes sense to pick ali as the part time spinner its NZ. conditions likely to suit woakes too if hes fully fit

see theyre still happy to pick Stokes, just emphasises how unfair Ducketts treatment was

this article a decent opinion piece on the ecb for me

https://beingoutsidecricket.com/2018/01/10/the-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse/

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That article is a brilliant read.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 15, 2018)

I surprised after all the doom and gloom of the Ashes more wasnâ€™t said about the great victory in the ODI - superb performance from Roy and great support from Root

In other news Stokes has been charged with affray


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## Dan2501 (Jan 15, 2018)

Brilliant knock from Roy.


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## Piece (Jan 15, 2018)

Great knock from, errr, Stokes.  Better knock though from Surrey boy Roy!


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## fundy (Jan 15, 2018)

another cracking test in progress saffers v india, shame the rain came this afternoon. some innings by kohli to keep india in the series


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 15, 2018)

Great, record breaking knock by Roy. Looks like Stokes could be out for a while if he's found guilty of affray and gets a custodial sentence


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## fundy (Jan 17, 2018)

seems swilling Sir Jimmy Andersen is a worse crime than affray according to the ECB, really are a joke of an organisation


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## Tongo (Jan 17, 2018)

fundy said:



			seems swilling Sir Jimmy Andersen is a worse crime than affray according to the ECB, really are a joke of an organisation
		
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An embarrassment. Absolutely clueless.


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## Piece (Jan 17, 2018)

fundy said:



			seems swilling Sir Jimmy Andersen is a worse crime than affray according to the ECB, really are a joke of an organisation
		
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Indeed. I haven't seen the press release today but it seems Stokes has been formally charged and is now available? &#129300; How does that work? Doesn't seem logical.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 17, 2018)

Piece said:



			Indeed. I haven't seen the press release today but it seems Stokes has been formally charged and is now available? &#129300; How does that work? Doesn't seem logical.
		
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Not logical at all as many pundits have commented on SSN. I don't think he'll go to New Zealand and get a warm welcome from the fans and surely it'll be better for him to get the case sorted, serve any sentence handed down if found guilty and come back with a clean slate


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## Pathetic Shark (Jan 18, 2018)

How can a player be suspended when he has only been charged?   Innocent until proven guilty?      Matthew Syed has written an excellent piece in today's Times about this.   Any player found guilty of an offence should be dealt with properly by the sports authority responsible.    But if he is found innocent, how could you justify him being unable to play and potential loss of earnings whilst waiting for the CPS to do its thing?   Imagine in your job you were on a base salary plus commission.   You received your base salary whilst suspended but no commission.   OK the numbers will be different from Stokes' situation but the principle is the same.


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## patricks148 (Jan 18, 2018)

watched the highlights of the under19 WC Eng V Bangladesh this morning.

Jack Brooks i think his name was, looked pretty tidy batsman. Only Bangladesh i know but one for the future hopefully


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## fundy (Jan 18, 2018)

Can the ECB look any more ridiculous

https://www.wisden.com/stories/news-stories/ben-stokes-england-comeback-delayed-by-new-court-date


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 18, 2018)

fundy said:



			Can the ECB look any more ridiculous

https://www.wisden.com/stories/news-stories/ben-stokes-england-comeback-delayed-by-new-court-date

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I'm sure they're working on new ways as we speak but do you think the courts may have had a little look at the too and deliberately booked it for the first game


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 19, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Brilliant knock from Roy.
		
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After the Lord Mayor's show..........


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## Piece (Jan 19, 2018)

2-0, after a nicely paced chase. On course for a 5-0 and Ashes series win (based on my points system!) :rofl:


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## fundy (Jan 19, 2018)

Piece said:



			2-0, after a nicely paced chase. On course for a 5-0 and Ashes series win (*based on my points system!*) :rofl:
		
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didnt realise it was womens cricket lol

aussies seem to struggle to go at a high enough rate in the middle to end overs these last couple of games


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 20, 2018)

fundy said:



			didnt realise it was womens cricket lol

aussies seem to struggle to go at a high enough rate in the middle to end overs these last couple of games
		
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Be nice to close the series out tonight


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## User2021 (Jan 21, 2018)

Decent last 10 overs, a respectable total


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 21, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Be nice to close the series out tonight
		
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You alright Homer, you're losing your touch.....


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## MegaSteve (Jan 21, 2018)

Think it might be safe to call her lot, in Oz, without fear of an earbashing again...

What goes round comes around...


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## User2021 (Jan 21, 2018)

Nice series win


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## 2blue (Jan 21, 2018)

Has Test Match cricket 'had it' in most countries other than Oz playing Eng? Conditions seem to assist the major Home sides to, too great an extent wereas the ODI's are not as greatly affected.


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## fundy (Jan 21, 2018)

2blue said:



			Has Test Match cricket 'had it' in most countries other than Oz playing Eng? Conditions seem to assist the major Home sides to, too great an extent wereas the ODI's are not as greatly affected.
		
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still has some value in south africa (mainly when playing the above sides) and to a degree new zealand, less so in india and pakistan as an away side. Always been hard to win away from home in test cricket, but its not got long left as certain powers that be continue to erode it


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 21, 2018)

Don't think it's done but definitely playing second fiddle in many countries to the ODI format


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## fundy (Jan 21, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Don't think it's done but definitely playing second fiddle in many countries to the ODI format
		
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dont think it plays second fiddle to odis anywhere, t20 yes, odis no


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 21, 2018)

fundy said:



			dont think it plays second fiddle to odis anywhere, t20 yes, odis no
		
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Look at the crowds on the sub continent and the West Indies and the grounds poorly attended for tests and yet full for the one day formats and T20


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## Dan2501 (Jan 22, 2018)

Think we can now all agree. Test matches are rubbish, The Ashes should really be competed for in an ODI series.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 22, 2018)

Dan2501 said:



			Think we can now all agree. Test matches are rubbish, The Ashes should really be competed for in an ODI series. 

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I disagree. I enjoy watching test cricket and don't think test matches are rubbish. I'd hate to see the Ashes go into a similar format to the ladies version and done on points over different formats


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## fundy (Jan 22, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I disagree. I enjoy watching test cricket and don't think test matches are rubbish. I'd hate to see the Ashes go into a similar format to the ladies version and done on points over different formats
		
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think you missed the tone of this post Homer


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## Piece (Jan 23, 2018)

Using the women's scoring system...

Aus:     18pts
Eng:     8pts


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## fundy (Jan 26, 2018)

strange day in SA, been a very lively pitch both sides not making 200 first inns, Dean Elgar been hit by one that bounced a bit more (albeit from quite short) but the umps decided enough was enough and took the players off. play has been called for the day, whether they come back and play tomorrow is anyones guess

such a shame because was a really exciting competitive game in the process


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## Piece (Feb 16, 2018)

Just watched one of the best T20s. NZ post 243, amazing score. Aus chase it down with balls to spare, winning by 5!

Add to that, a bowler was taken off for two over waist deliveries and two one-handed crowd catches, winning $50k! :clap:


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

Piece said:



			Just watched one of the best T20s. NZ post 243, amazing score. Aus chase it down with balls to spare, winning by 5!

Add to that, a bowler was taken off for two over waist deliveries and two one-handed crowd catches, winning $50k! :clap:
		
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funny how different people see the same thing differently. thought it was one of the dullest games possible, a complete mismatch between batsman and bowler, mi***** regularly going to the boundary and the chasing side winning with almost 2 overs to spare


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## patricks148 (Feb 16, 2018)

fundy said:



			funny how different people see the same thing differently. thought it was one of the dullest games possible, a complete mismatch between batsman and bowler, mi***** regularly going to the boundary and the chasing side winning with almost 2 overs to spare
		
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isn't this being played in a Rugby stadium?? 

very short straight boundaries make for lots of runs


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

patricks148 said:



			isn't this being played in a Rugby stadium?? 

very short straight boundaries make for lots of runs
		
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yep eden park


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## Tongo (Feb 16, 2018)

fundy said:



			funny how different people see the same thing differently. thought it was one of the dullest games possible, a complete mismatch between batsman and bowler, mi***** regularly going to the boundary and the chasing side winning with almost 2 overs to spare
		
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Yep. It was....predictable. And when sport becomes that predictable it aint worth watching. Was a bit like Dustin Johnson teeing up at my local Muni and everyone wowing when he shoots 15 under. (Shameless promotion coming up!) I wrote a blog piece on this subject a few weeks ago:

www.yahooovercowcorner.wordpress.com/2018/01/02/a-rising-tide-lifts-all-boats/


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Yep. It was....predictable. And when sport becomes that predictable it aint worth watching. Was a bit like Dustin Johnson teeing up at my local Muni and everyone wowing when he shoots 15 under. (Shameless promotion coming up!) I wrote a blog piece on this subject a few weeks ago:

www.yahooovercowcorner.wordpress.com/2018/01/02/a-rising-tide-lifts-all-boats/

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spot on for me, good article

i see the ecb are finally have version 2 of chasing the gravy train (version 1 derailed by stanford), having to buy off the counties and going with the predictable 8 grounds to base the franchises (and in the process cutting off the north and south west from the map), cant wait to cheer home the south coast sloggers in 2020 in 2020


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## Tongo (Feb 16, 2018)

fundy said:



			spot on for me, good article

i see the ecb are finally have version 2 of chasing the gravy train (version 1 derailed by stanford), having to buy off the counties and going with the predictable 8 grounds to base the franchises (and in the process cutting off the north and south west from the map), cant wait to cheer home the south coast sloggers in 2020 in 2020 

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Ta. They wont be the south coast sloggers though as there'll be no geography in the team names! (So just the sloggers then!)


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Ta. They wont be the south coast sloggers though as there'll be no geography in the team names! (So just the sloggers then!)
		
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theyll be the south cost sloggers to me


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## Tongo (Feb 16, 2018)

fundy said:



			theyll be the south cost sloggers to me 

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Yes, i think that'll be the case around the country. No matter what names are given to the teams fans will latch onto what they see as their local team. The ECB are a bit naive / ignorant to think otherwise.


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

Tongo said:



			Yes, i think that'll be the case around the country. No matter what names are given to the teams fans will latch onto what they see as their local team. The ECB are a bit naive / ignorant to think otherwise.
		
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just realised my team play in your home town haha, looks like your gonna be a sloggers fan too


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 16, 2018)

Tongo said:



			The ECB are a bit naive / ignorant .
		
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Think that's all that was needed to describe them perfectly


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## Piece (Feb 16, 2018)

fundy said:



			funny how different people see the same thing differently. thought it was one of the dullest games possible, a complete mismatch between batsman and bowler, mi***** regularly going to the boundary and the chasing side winning with almost 2 overs to spare
		
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Fair enough, I get your point. For me, evening T20s are about crowd entertainment and big hitting fits the bill, so for me an uneven balance in this format is fine.


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

Piece said:



			Fair enough, I get your point. For me, evening T20s are about crowd entertainment and big hitting fits the bill, *so for me an uneven balance in this format is fine*.
		
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will it be ok when this is the only format?


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## Piece (Feb 16, 2018)

fundy said:



			will it be ok when this is the only format?
		
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If it is the only format then I wonâ€™t be watching. I occasionally watch T20s but cricket for me is Test matches.


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

Piece said:



			If it is the only format then I wonâ€™t be watching. I occasionally watch T20s but cricket for me is Test matches.
		
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thats the problem though isnt it, this format is being backed at the expense of everything else, for you like me cricket will be pretty much dead in the format we love in a few years

i see rashid has signed a white ball only contract for yorkshire today


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## Piece (Feb 16, 2018)

fundy said:



			thats the problem though isnt it, this format is being backed at the expense of everything else, for you like me cricket will be pretty much dead in the format we love in a few years

i see rashid has signed a white ball only contract for yorkshire today
		
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This is where it doesnâ€™t add up and Iâ€™m with you. To me a leggy is a long format bowler only. Wasted in the short form as surely he canâ€™t learn his craft properly.


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## fundy (Feb 16, 2018)

Piece said:



			This is where it doesnâ€™t add up and Iâ€™m with you. To me a leggy is a long format bowler only. Wasted in the short form as surely he canâ€™t learn his craft properly.
		
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i guess hes decided england arent prepared to pick him in tests so he may as well make hay and earn what he can, sad to see thats for sure


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## Kellfire (Mar 22, 2018)

England don't love playing in the Southern Hemisphere...


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## Dan2501 (Mar 22, 2018)

Embarrassing. Craig Overton saved it from being even worse. Williamson making us look like mugs as well.


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## GB72 (Mar 22, 2018)

Embarrassing but also slightly understandable. Parts of this team have been on tour since the end of October. How can it be a good thing to have a team on tour for nearly 6 months at a time. Add to that no test matches since the end of the ashes and a format (day/night) that we are not overly familiar with and you can see why this was an abject failure. 

True, there are bigger problems in the England set up but this leg of the tour just seemed a step too far.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 22, 2018)

Not sure Bayliss is doing anything for the team and moving them forward His "rabbit in headlights" comment summed it up. Why were they like that. Professional cricketers and sorry but most have been playing cricket in some form or another and so should have been able to get into "test" mode and it's nothing but an embarrassment. New Zealand are a team on the up but their not the strongest even at home and you can expect this to be over inside three days, possibly two if we bat like that again


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## fundy (Mar 22, 2018)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure Bayliss is doing anything for the team and moving them forward His "rabbit in headlights" comment summed it up. Why were they like that. Professional cricketers and sorry but most have been playing cricket in some form or another and so should have been able to get into "test" mode and it's nothing but an embarrassment. New Zealand are a team on the up but their not the strongest even at home and you can expect this to be over inside three days, possibly two if we bat like that again
		
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sorry but as per usual this is utter hs!

how do you get into test mode when you are being paid to play limited over cricket 90% of the time, you are constantly practising moving around in the crease, range hitting etc then suddenly youre expected to bat in a test match against 2 top class new ball operators on a helpful pitch when youve had a 2 day warm up game? they dont just have a switch ffs

this isnt an england problem this is a test match cricket problem and ultimately the powers that be have pretty much got their way and killed the format bar a handful of games a year, and the players are just expected to turn it on and off as required despite having no incentive to practise and improve at the format but are being paid handsomely to practise skills that are counter productive? the funny thing is overall quality will start to decline as players dont have the fundamental base to start with in the future


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 23, 2018)

fundy said:



			sorry but as per usual this is utter hs!

how do you get into test mode when you are being paid to play limited over cricket 90% of the time, you are constantly practising moving around in the crease, range hitting etc then suddenly youre expected to bat in a test match against 2 top class new ball operators on a helpful pitch when youve had a 2 day warm up game? they dont just have a switch ffs

this isnt an england problem this is a test match cricket problem and ultimately the powers that be have pretty much got their way and killed the format bar a handful of games a year, and the players are just expected to turn it on and off as required despite having no incentive to practise and improve at the format but are being paid handsomely to practise skills that are counter productive? the funny thing is overall quality will start to decline as players dont have the fundamental base to start with in the future
		
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Absolutely spot on!!

The dominance of the white ball game both domestically and internationally is leading to the demise of Test cricket as players are being encouraged to develop a different skill set. 

I reckon I could select two or three competitive England one day sides but would struggle to pick a Test team. Witness the current situation with the batting line-up.


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## Wilson (Mar 23, 2018)

Agree with the last two posts, Aggers was talking on similar lines yesterday. You only have to look at how quickly some Test Matches are over now, to see the players arenâ€™t in that mindset anymore.


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## fundy (Mar 24, 2018)

Good to see Aussie hypocrisy has reached even new levels today

If it wasnt bad enough watching Warner winge like a baby that someone had said something nasty too him (having spent the last decade sledging any and every opponent) today they then get caught on camera tampering with the ball with what appears to be a piece of sandpaper (andf then lying when caught)

Chief hypocrit Lehman who wanted Broad sent home in tears has now cancelled all interviews (whilst they get their stories straight and decide which lie theyre going to peddle eventually)

The Aussies want to set this moral line that everyone else is supposed to operate by, bag them out when they dont yet expects to be able to act as though these rules dont apply to themselves

Video for anyone who hasnt seen it

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/86t2bw/video_of_brancroft_incident_with_3_different/


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## Piece (Mar 24, 2018)

Grubby players, grubby team, led by a grubby coach. Lol that they are whinging about their treatment in SA, after peddling the same for years. You can bet theyâ€™ve been doing this for years.


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## fundy (Mar 24, 2018)

Piece said:



			Grubby players, grubby team, led by a grubby coach. Lol that they are whinging about their treatment in SA, after peddling the same for years. *You can bet theyâ€™ve been doing this for years*.
		
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no you must have missed Smith's interview, this is definitely the first time theyve ever done anything like this, honestly guv, awwwww look mayte


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## richart (Mar 24, 2018)

I have looked up cheating in the dictionary and it definitely doesnâ€™t say ball tampering.


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## Piece (Mar 24, 2018)

fundy said:



			no you must have missed Smith's interview, this is definitely the first time theyve ever done anything like this, honestly guv, awwwww look mayte
		
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Their explanation is good with me, as they always tell the truth.  Looking forward to see what Boof has to say...


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## Wilson (Mar 24, 2018)

This has cheered me up no end! Smith will have to resign surely, and I wonder if this will move forward Lehmanâ€™s departure?

I just hope Bancroft wasnâ€™t pressured into this, his reputation is now stained forever.

As for Warner/Lehman moaning about the sledging/crowd abuse - if you canâ€™t take it, they shouldnâ€™t have been dishing it for years.


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 24, 2018)

They should surely forfeit The Ashes!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 25, 2018)

Can England bat through the day and save a test they've no right to be still in, thanks to the rain. Weather set fair for day five. Looked a nasty rap on Root's hand prior to the dismissal and I hope no damage going forward. What do people think of his captaincy?


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