# Cheating



## NorfolkShaun (Sep 26, 2015)

Whats peoples thoughts on cheating?

At our club there is a thought with some players that there is a bit of cheating going on. Mostly leaning towards people playing off the incorrect tees. Today we saw a group playing off the yellows in the stableford. They were approached and suggested they simply had a moment and had done it for a few holes by mistake.

I have to say I have always held the stance that people make mistakes and do not knowingly cheat. However some others just think that they just happen to have been caught and this kind of thing goes on a lot. 

Thoughts?


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## Duckster (Sep 26, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Whats peoples thoughts on cheating?

At our club there is a thought with some players that there is a bit of cheating going on. Mostly leaning towards people playing off the incorrect tees. Today we saw a group playing off the yellows in the stableford. They were approached and suggested they simply had a moment and had done it for a few holes by mistake.

I have to say I have always held the stance that people make mistakes and do not knowingly cheat. However some others just think that they just happen to have been caught and this kind of thing goes on a lot. 

Thoughts?
		
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Never mind calling them cheats, after doing it on several holes, isn't that a straight DQ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 26, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Whats peoples thoughts on cheating?

At our club there is a thought with some players that there is a bit of cheating going on. Mostly leaning towards people playing off the incorrect tees. Today we saw a group playing off the yellows in the stableford. They were approached and suggested they simply had a moment and had done it for a few holes by mistake.

I have to say I have always held the stance that people make mistakes and do not knowingly cheat. However some others just think that they just happen to have been caught and this kind of thing goes on a lot. 

Thoughts?
		
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Surely if they've played off the wrong tee then it's a case of DQ if they don't replay the tee shot. Do these players always play together (assuming no drawn comps) and are they regularly in contention?


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 26, 2015)

Duckster said:



			Never mind calling them cheats, after doing it on several holes, isn't that a straight DQ?
		
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The second time they were approached they said they would n/r


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## Old Skier (Sep 26, 2015)

That's why I like drawn comps


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 26, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			That's why I like drawn comps
		
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Funny you say that, we are going back to drawn comps for majors


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## Doh (Sep 26, 2015)

Shaun 

I think you are being a bit to kind there. Anyone who plays regular comps knows what tee they play off.


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 26, 2015)

we have a few rumours at our club about one player and the use of the leather wedge.cant say that i have ever noticed it being put into operation.
i know we have one chap that seems to have trouble adding up and i have more than once reminded him that he took a shot or two more than he was quoting.

  as for the op ,sounds very much like blatant cheating.


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## Guvnor2013 (Sep 27, 2015)

Rules is rules.  The rules of golf cater for this type of thing but it is a matter of having the evidence / catching someone doing it.  Unfortunately, the game is one that needs to be largely 'self policed' and whilst there is an argument that they are only cheating themselves - if they are recording victories and collecting prize money (or even getting their names in gold letters in the clubhouse) then they need pulling up.  Drawn comps for board comps seems a good way forward generally.


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## ScienceBoy (Sep 27, 2015)

There is golfing and there is cheating. You can only do one, knowingly or otherwise.


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## chrisd (Sep 27, 2015)

It's not always deliberate cheating, but as soon as it's been pointed out then they should DQ if they've already lost the chance to correct the problem. Earlier this summer a group I was in played 18 holes in a mid week medal off the whites when, for the first time ever, it was a yellow tee comp but the pro shop forgot to tell us! I wouldn't be happy to be accused of cheating, but as soon as I found out (after we had submitted our cards) I emailed the Secretary and DQ'd the 4 of us.


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## RollinThunder (Sep 27, 2015)

I've not known cheating in a comp, but I've known some serious cheating in casual rounds, for stag do's, etc. People who've never played before and somehow go around in 85 . I saw a lad slice his tee shot into the trees, top his next shot into a bunker, take 3 shots to get out of the bunker, an approach shot, duff a chip, and then 3-putt, then try to claim a bogey 5!


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## Beezerk (Sep 27, 2015)

The poacher said:



			we have a few rumours at our club about one player and the use of the leather wedge.cant say that i have ever noticed it being put into operation.
		
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My regular PP and I saw a guy doing this in a comp a couple of years ago, we didn't say anything as we were new members and this guy has been there years, one of the sweep regulars if you know what I mean. Fast forward to this year, it turns out he has quite a reputation as most people we mention it to seem to have come across his devious way. The fella in question always plays with his 3 nephews, they came 2nd in a board comp last Saturday which made me chuckle.
I'm not sure how he gets away with it given how so many members seem to know what he's up to.


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## Skypilot (Sep 27, 2015)

What dictates what tees you should play from?

My partner and I both started playing regularly last year when we retired and have always played off the yellow tees.
We assumed the white tees were for "good" players. Without really knowing what that meant.
We were total crap but could now probably get 28 handicaps if we got our cards signed and they precluded the usual couple of 8's.


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## Three (Sep 27, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			My regular PP and I saw a guy doing this in a comp a couple of years ago, we didn't say anything as we were new members and this guy has been there years, one of the sweep regulars if you know what I mean. Fast forward to this year, it turns out he has quite a reputation as most people we mention it to seem to have come across his devious way. The fella in question always plays with his 3 nephews, they came 2nd in a board comp last Saturday which made me chuckle.
*I'm not sure how he gets away with it *given how so many members seem to know what he's up to.
		
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He gets away with it because you and several other people don't report him!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2015)

Three said:



			He gets away with it because you and several other people don't report him!
		
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That's interesting comment - especially after your issue with the people marking their ball on the green and you hadn't said anything about it.


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 27, 2015)

Results in on HDID, nice to see they all put their cards in despite saying they would not........


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## Duckster (Sep 27, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Results in on HDID, nice to see they all put their cards in despite saying they would not........
		
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Have you reported them to the comps committee?


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 27, 2015)

Duckster said:



			Have you reported them to the comps committee?
		
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Was playing with a committee member so the committee is well aware


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## MashieNiblick (Sep 27, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Results in on HDID, nice to see they all put their cards in despite saying they would not........
		
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What did they score on the holes where they played from the wrong tee? If it was a stableford comp it might just be that they are not automatically DQ'd and just scored nul points on the holes in question.


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 27, 2015)

MashieNiblick said:



			What did they score on the holes where they played from the wrong tee? If it was a stableford comp it might just be that they are not automatically DQ'd and just scored nul points on the holes in question.
		
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I only know one's name he scored on one and blobbed the other


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 27, 2015)

Skypilot said:



			What dictates what tees you should play from?

My partner and I both started playing regularly last year when we retired and have always played off the yellow tees.
We assumed the white tees were for "good" players. Without really knowing what that meant.
We were total crap but could now probably get 28 handicaps if we got our cards signed and they precluded the usual couple of 8's.
		
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For casual play - unless the club states a 'tee of the day' or 'play prohibited from..' you can play from any gents tee - assuming you are playing to a gents card.   There may be rules prohibiting play from a ladies or junior tee.  In a comp the tee to be played from  will be stated and you *must* play from that tee.  The rules cover what you do if you play from the wrong tee in a comp (matchplay and strokeplay).

As far as 'good' players being those only allowed to play from some tees - some clubs might suggest - or indeed require - you to play from a shorter tee if you are a higher handicap (they'd state the handicap above which the requirement applies) if they think players will struggle badly off some longer/harder tees.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 27, 2015)

MashieNiblick said:



			What did they score on the holes where they played from the wrong tee? If it was a stableford comp it might just be that they are not automatically DQ'd and just scored nul points on the holes in question.
		
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I thought id missed something why everyone was  saying DQ . As u say surely just scratch the holes they didn't re tee on & count the rest ..

If committee member is aware of them not only playing off the wrong tee but entering scores for them holes after being told they were wrong , they should be up before the committee for cheating


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## Three (Sep 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's interesting comment - especially after your issue with the people marking their ball on the green and you hadn't said anything about it.
		
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Totally different situation as was explained in detail. 
Unfortunately the explanation nullifies your desire to be obtuse, hence you ignore it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2015)

Three said:



			Totally different situation as was explained in detail. 
Unfortunately the explanation nullifies your desire to be obtuse, hence you ignore it.
		
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It was plain cheating - you knew they were marking their ball incorrectly and as a pro should have mentioned it yet bottled it - so it's irrelevant how you felt about the situation of the club - you cannot berate others for not reporting blatent cheating when you initially failed to do the same.


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## guest100718 (Sep 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was plain cheating - you knew they were marking their ball incorrectly and as a pro should have mentioned it yet bottled it - so it's irrelevant how you felt about the situation of the club - you cannot berate others for not reporting blatent cheating when you initially failed to do the same.
		
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Yawn.....

pretty tiresome stuff LP. Do you not have anything else in your repitore?


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## Three (Sep 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was plain cheating - you knew they were marking their ball incorrectly and as a pro should have mentioned it yet bottled it - so it's irrelevant how you felt about the situation of the club - you cannot berate others for not reporting blatent cheating when you initially failed to do the same.
		
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Lol. 
You're just on a wind up. 
You know absolutely nothing about the situation, your view is absolutely worthless and not worth replying to. 
All the info is in the thread that you got locked.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2015)

Three said:



			Lol. 
You're just on a wind up. 
You know absolutely nothing about the situation, your view is absolutely worthless and not worth replying to. 
All the info is in the thread that you got locked.
		
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Simple question with a yes or no answer

You are a pro - you witnessed members incorrectly marking their ball repeatedly on the green 

Did you initially report or speak them about the clear rule break 

Yes or no 

The answer in the locked thread is no 

In a thread about cheating where you pull people up for not reporting members who cheat then it's an extremely relevant point


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## Three (Sep 27, 2015)

Stop trolling me.. It's very boring.


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## guest100718 (Sep 27, 2015)

Three said:



			Stop trolling me.. It's very boring.
		
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It keeps his post count ticking over.

Theere'll be another post any sec along the lines of:

so you'll say you should call out cheats , but dont do it your self... etc blah blah.


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## chrisd (Sep 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Simple question with a yes or no answer

You are a pro - you witnessed members incorrectly marking their ball repeatedly on the green 

Did you initially report or speak them about the clear rule break 

Yes or no 

The answer in the locked thread is no 

In a thread about cheating where you pull people up for not reporting members who cheat then it's an extremely relevant point
		
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No Pro worthy of the title would witness cheating and not call it!


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2015)

Back on track, I still think it's worth bringing it up, irrespective of the committee member being out there. It's clearly against the rules and the fact that the player the OP knows of has scores recorded would show they've clearly submitted scores and if they were to do this regularly, there will become a time when they could potentially be in the mix and a chance of winning money/vouchers


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 27, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Back on track, I still think it's worth bringing it up, irrespective of the committee member being out there. It's clearly against the rules and the fact that the player the OP knows of has scores recorded would show they've clearly submitted scores and if they were to do this regularly, there will become a time when they could potentially be in the mix and a chance of winning money/vouchers
		
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I know the committee member quite well he is mailing the comp sec today, it just makes me wonder if this kind of thing goes on a lot though. 

It was suggested to me this happens quite a bit in midweeks, this is mainly thought of due to some very odd scoring at times


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## bladeplayer (Sep 27, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Back on track, I still think it's worth bringing it up, irrespective of the committee member being out there. It's clearly against the rules and the fact that the player the OP knows of has scores recorded would show they've clearly submitted scores and if they were to do this regularly, there will become a time when they could potentially be in the mix and a chance of winning money/vouchers
		
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Yep agreed , just handy he was there tho ,let them deal with it now , 
Anyone can make a mistake , but once they were told & still submitted the score shows its not an accident & person/people involved have scant regard for the rules


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## Three (Sep 27, 2015)

Personally I think there are very few people who deliberately cheat at golf. 

Most people don't know all the rules (who does?),  there's probably a great many who innocently  break certain rules because they've never known any different, but I would say the vast majority play as honestly as they can.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 27, 2015)

Three said:



			Personally I think there are very few people who deliberately cheat at golf. 

Most people don't know all the rules (who does?),  there's probably a great many who innocently  break certain rules because they've never known any different, but I would say the vast majority play as honestly as they can.
		
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There's a good chance that I break rules,I'd never knowingly do it. 
But I'd never claim to know all the rules. 
I only play with mates,who are as clueless as me so it's not an issue.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2015)

Three said:



			Personally I think there are very few people who deliberately cheat at golf. 

Most people don't know all the rules (who does?),  there's probably a great many who innocently  break certain rules because they've never known any different, but I would say the vast majority play as honestly as they can.
		
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I think we're probably all in this boat and guilty of breaking rules inadvertantly. It isn't right, and were I to be pulled would hold my hand up (providing the decision was right and not a rule myth) but in the example in the OP, playing off the yellow tees on some holes (assuming - nay guessing - these were trickier ones) is out and out cheating. Once is perhaps excusable as a lapse but several holes and then handing the cards in as valid is so wrong.


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## Three (Sep 27, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think we're probably all in this boat and guilty of breaking rules inadvertantly. It isn't right, and were I to be pulled would hold my hand up (providing the decision was right and not a rule myth) but in the example in the OP, playing off the yellow tees on some holes (assuming - nay guessing - these were trickier ones) is out and out cheating. Once is perhaps excusable as a lapse but several holes and then handing the cards in as valid is so wrong.
		
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Agree on the specific case, just giving a general observation.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 27, 2015)

Three said:



			Agree on the specific case, just giving a general observation. 

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One which I agree with. As I say, I think we've all broken rules by mistake at some time or another


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## Tashyboy (Sep 27, 2015)

Was talking to a guy who I played with for the first time last a tues, really nice guy. He plays off 17 and is frustrated that his game seems to be goin backwards.
in essence I said tell me about it. On April 4th I gave me bro Â£50 s worth of shop vouchers I had won for his 50th birthdays. I cashed in Â£53s worth week before last on stuff and won Tuesday playing with him 31 points in a Stableford (Â£15). Lo and behold I flipping won again on Thursday in a nine hole comp with 16 points winning on count back scoring 8 on the last three holes. Another Â£10-15.
quite frankly I am bogged off winning brass in varying degrees of weather and my handicap is exactly the same as when I started the season. 
He then drops out a blinder. He then said well at least you have a concience. have a look at such and such a family in our club. In essence they play with no one else but themselves.
all stats off our site.
player 1, started season at 18.8 and is now 11.3 with two exceptional play reductions.
player 2, started season at 8.2 and is now 7.9. No change there.
player 3, started season at 33 and is now 25.7
player 4, started season at 27.1 and is now 17.1 with two exceptional play reductions.
player 5, started season at 19 and is now 14.9 with one exceptional play reduction.

does it bother me, not as much as flipping winning coin and havin the same hcap. But it certainly is ruffling a few feathers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 27, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			Was talking to a guy who I played with for the first time last a tues, really nice guy. He plays off 17 and is frustrated that his game seems to be goin backwards.
in essence I said tell me about it. On April 4th I gave me bro Â£50 s worth of shop vouchers I had won for his 50th birthdays. I cashed in Â£53s worth week before last on stuff and won Tuesday playing with him 31 points in a Stableford (Â£15). Lo and behold I flipping won again on Thursday in a nine hole comp with 16 points winning on count back scoring 8 on the last three holes. Another Â£10-15.
quite frankly I am bogged off winning brass in varying degrees of weather and my handicap is exactly the same as when I started the season. 
He then drops out a blinder. He then said well at least you have a concience. have a look at such and such a family in our club. In essence they play with no one else but themselves.
all stats off our site.
player 1, started season at 18.8 and is now 11.3 with two exceptional play reductions.
player 2, started season at 8.2 and is now 7.9. No change there.
player 3, started season at 33 and is now 25.7
player 4, started season at 27.1 and is now 17.1 with two exceptional play reductions.
player 5, started season at 19 and is now 14.9 with one exceptional play reduction.

does it bother me, not as much as flipping winning coin and havin the same hcap. But it certainly is ruffling a few feathers.
		
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Is that posted on the wrong thread ?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 28, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that posted on the wrong thread ?
		
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No, the guy was trying to insinuate that with "some" of those figures/scores and only playing with family members they were open to " question".


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