# How to break 85 - 3 goal method



## matt611 (Jul 22, 2014)

Last year Scienceboy posted an interesting thread on how to break 100 with 3 key aims on each hole:

1 - find the fairway
2 - get inside 150
3 - get on the green

Whilst his post was a little more elaborate than the 3 key aims just mentioned, that gives you the basic jist of it.  I have followed those aims and spent time working on my putting so that I generally go round in 89-91.

So now I am wondering what would your aims be in order to break 85?  Would the same aims apply just with a little more short game practice?  Should I be a little more aggressive on par 5s?

Thanks


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## woody69 (Jul 22, 2014)

matt611 said:



			Last year Scienceboy posted an interesting thread on how to break 100 with 3 key aims on each hole:

1 - find the fairway
2 - get inside 150
3 - get on the green

Whilst his post was a little more elaborate than the 3 key aims just mentioned, that gives you the basic jist of it. I have followed those aims and spent time working on my putting so that I generally go round in 89-91.

So now I am wondering what would your aims be in order to break 85? Would the same aims apply just with a little more short game practice? Should I be a little more aggressive on par 5s?

Thanks
		
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Where do you find you are dropping most of your shots? If I had to guess it would probably be you're failing to get down in 2 when playing short chips onto the green when you've missed the green with your approach 2nd/3rd, so instead of get par you're getting a bogey or worse. I'd focus on those to make sure I am consistently getting close enough for 1 putt.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 22, 2014)

The key for me would be around the greens.
Once you have hit the fairway and found the green or close to the green
this is when the scoring starts.
My tip would be ingrain your yardages for chips from 50 yards in.
Try all your clubs from around the green and see how they roll out.
If you use your lob wedges look to how they react once they have hit the green.
Don't just try and chip near the flag,try to chip in,narrow your target.
And most important don't 3 putt.
Chipping it closer will stop you having 30-40 ft putts.
I may be stating the obvious but it has worked for me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2014)

Tricky one. Short game and putting are always crucial areas so have a look at your up and down stats and number of putts per round or better still, the total length of putts holed. Mind you no amount of short game work will help if you're carving it off the tee regularly. I think you have to look at your game as a whole and then decide which area is weakest. If your consistently around the 90 mark it's not a big leap to save five shots. Keep going


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## Hobbit (Jul 22, 2014)

Come off after 14 holes...

Its about consistency right through the game. I've seen many mid/high handicappers hit great shots but then follow it up with brain freeze. Concentrate on each shot, and take your medicine when you're in the jungle. Don't go for Hollywood shots


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## Wabinez (Jul 22, 2014)

Easy.

Eliminate penalty shots
Eliminate 2 Chips
Eliminate 2 Pitches
Eliminate 2 Sand Shots
Eliminate 3 Putts


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## Jack_bfc (Jul 22, 2014)

Wabinez said:



			Easy.

Eliminate penalty shots
Eliminate 2 Chips
Eliminate 2 Pitches
Eliminate 2 Sand Shots
Eliminate 3 Putts
		
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That is exactly the difference between the low 90's and mid 80's for me.....

My bunker play and chipping has improved greatly since having decent practice facilities this year..

This really helps....


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## louise_a (Jul 22, 2014)

I am in the position of trying to consistently score under 85. I know I will usually have a good number of pars and an occasional birdie n most rounds, the problems are the double bogeys and worse.
My aim for the season s to have a competitive round with nothing worse than a bogey, I have done it once but in a team event, so that doesn't count as t wasn't a qualifier.
I know I will still hit a duff shot now and again, so its important to try to get up and down from near the green and certainly not take more than 3 shots as opposed to taking more than 3 which I used to do a lot and still occasionally do.


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## Stuey01 (Jul 22, 2014)

matt611 said:



			Last year Scienceboy posted an interesting thread on how to break 100 with 3 key aims on each hole:

1 - find the fairway
2 - get inside 150
3 - get on the green

Whilst his post was a little more elaborate than the 3 key aims just mentioned, that gives you the basic jist of it.  I have followed those aims and spent time working on my putting so that I generally go round in 89-91.

So now I am wondering what would your aims be in order to break 85?  Would the same aims apply just with a little more short game practice?  Should I be a little more aggressive on par 5s?

Thanks
		
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For me, this approach doesn't cut it when you are trying to get your scores down lower. You have to be thinking about trying to hit greens in reg, which you never will like this.  Ok you won't hit every green but you should hit a few and be chipping other times rather than hitting in from 100 yards or whatever.
If you are only aiming to be hitting at the green from somewhere within 150 with your 3rd shot not ony are you never hitting GIR on a par 4, you're most likely missing quite a few with your third shot so you're chipping on for 4.
You need to start making a few pars if you're going to score <85. Being on or around the green in reg is the way to do this. That means improving your long game.


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## woody69 (Jul 22, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			For me, this approach doesn't cut it when you are trying to get your scores down lower. You have to be thinking about trying to hit greens in reg, which you never will like this. Ok you won't hit every green but you should hit a few and be chipping other times rather than hitting in from 100 yards or whatever.
If you are only aiming to be hitting at the green from somewhere within 150 with your 3rd shot not ony are you never hitting GIR on a par 4, you're most likely missing quite a few with your third shot so you're chipping on for 4.
You need to start making a few pars if you're going to score <85. Being on or around the green in reg is the way to do this. That means improving your long game.
		
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Whilst long game is important, I'd say it was the last thing you would need to improve to be breaking 85. Going for greens from 175-200+ yards out is hard, which is the average distance I would say most people find themselves on an standard par 4. You can practice, but it's still a hard skill to master. That means you're almost certainly chipping on to the green with your 3rd from within 20 yards or so and you'll be doing that more than the times you make GIR. Those short chips / pitches etc are easier to practice and master than the long iron shot in from 175 yards plus. Pros only make GIR from that distance approx 60-70% of the time, so that still leaves somewhere in the region of 5-6 holes you need to chip on from and get close enough.

Personally I would say long game is the last thing to improve and work on and only necessary when you're aiming to go around in level par, not 12+ over.


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## guest100718 (Jul 22, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Whilst long game is important, I'd say it was the last thing you would need to improve to be breaking 85. Going for greens from 175-200+ yards out is hard, which is the average distance I would say most people find themselves on an standard par 4. You can practice, but it's still a hard skill to master. That means you're almost certainly chipping on to the green with your 3rd from within 20 yards or so and you'll be doing that more than the times you make GIR. Those short chips / pitches etc are easier to practice and master than the long iron shot in from 175 yards plus. Pros only make GIR from that distance approx 60-70% of the time, so that still leaves somewhere in the region of 5-6 holes you need to chip on from and get close enough.

Personally I would say long game is the last thing to improve and work on when you're aiming to go around in level par, not 12+ over.
		
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Long game is everything. Get as close as you can to the green and you'll score better.


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## woody69 (Jul 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Long game is everything. Get as close as you can to the green and you'll score better.
		
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It really isn't. I knew somone who couldn't hit it further than 160 yards and they played off 2.


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## CMAC (Jul 22, 2014)

woody69 said:



			It really isn't. I knew somone who couldn't hit it further than 160 yards and they played off 2.
		
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my old clubs club champion and scratch player for as long as he can remember is probably the shortest driver out of all the cat 1's at the club, he plays at least 1 more club from the same spot and plays regular shafts.
He hits fairways and when missing a green its up and down in 2


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 22, 2014)

If you usually keep the ball in play off the tee, and are usually somewhere on or near the green in no more than 3 shots (for Par 4s), then your short game is where the improvements will be made.


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## Stuey01 (Jul 22, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Whilst long game is important, I'd say it was the last thing you would need to improve to be breaking 85. Going for greens from 175-200+ yards out is hard, which is the average distance I would say most people find themselves on an standard par 4. You can practice, but it's still a hard skill to master. That means you're almost certainly chipping on to the green with your 3rd from within 20 yards or so and you'll be doing that more than the times you make GIR. Those short chips / pitches etc are easier to practice and master than the long iron shot in from 175 yards plus. Pros only make GIR from that distance approx 60-70% of the time, so that still leaves somewhere in the region of 5-6 holes you need to chip on from and get close enough.

Personally I would say long game is the last thing to improve and work on and only necessary when you're aiming to go around in level par, not 12+ over.
		
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There is a big difference between chipping from within 20 yards and going for the green in 3 from up to 150yards away which is what the original post talks about.

Hitting it on or near the green in reg is crucial if you are going to make enough pars. To shoot <85 on a par 72 you must get 6 pars or better at least, probably more to offset the occasional double.  IMO you need to be hitting some GIR and a few up and downs to do this.


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## woody69 (Jul 22, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			There is a big difference between chipping from within 20 yards and going for the green in 3 from up to 150yards away which is what the original post talks about.

Hitting it on or near the green in reg is crucial if you are going to make enough pars. To shoot <85 on a par 72 you must get 6 pars or better at least, probably more to offset the occasional double. IMO you need to be hitting some GIR and a few up and downs to do this.
		
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The original post was referencing how to break 100 using that method and how it can be adapted to break 85, not using that method to break 85.


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## Stuey01 (Jul 22, 2014)

woody69 said:



			The original post was referencing how to break 100 using that method and how it can be adapted to break 85, not using that method to break 85.
		
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Indeed, and my suggestion for adapting the method is to be going for more greens in reg, rather than laying up to within 150yards.
That way you are chipping and putting rather hitting full wedges.
Improving ones chipping when your 3rd shot is from 150 yards isn't going to make for many pars is it?


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## Deano23 (Jul 22, 2014)

Make more putts and then make even more putts. Tee to green I can still play like I did when I shot mid 70's, but over the years my putting has become questionable.


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## louise_a (Jul 22, 2014)

my 3 steps,

1 Consistency from the tee both length and direction
2 On or around the green in regulation
3 No more than more 3 shots when near the green


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## woody69 (Jul 22, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			Indeed, and my suggestion for adapting the method is to be going for more greens in reg, rather than laying up to within 150yards.
That way you are chipping and putting rather hitting full wedges.
Improving ones chipping when your 3rd shot is from 150 yards isn't going to make for many pars is it?
		
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OK, I misunderstood then. I still think short game practice is more important, but yes the person should be going for the green more often rather than just aiming to get it within 150 yards.


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## virtuocity (Jul 22, 2014)

louise_a said:



			my 3 steps,

1 Consistency from the tee both length and direction
2 On or around the green in regulation
3 No more than more 3 shots when near the green
		
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Good list.  Green in 3 is absolutely fine.  If you can manage that EVERY time, spend 75% of your practice time on chipping and putting.

That means bogey at worse.  Sometimes you'll get on the green in 2, meaning par.  Sometimes you'll get on in 3 but hole the putt.

First things first though- keep that damn ball in play off the tee (as per breaking 100 method).


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## Fyldewhite (Jul 22, 2014)

You will almost certainly need to improve your course management.  Just 2 or 3 bad decisions in a round could cost 6/7/8 shots so try to eliminate the unforced errors. Keep the trouble out of play where possible....eg 400 yard hole, 220 yard drive, a 6 iron to 20 or 30 yards short will more or less guarantee a par/bogey where a 4 iron or hybrid may bring all sorts of trouble around the green into play. When it goes wrong (and it will), accept the poor shot and get back into play. Always be realistic and play within your ability.


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## guest100718 (Jul 22, 2014)

woody69 said:



			It really isn't. I knew somone who couldn't hit it further than 160 yards and they played off 2.
		
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Yeah yeah, everybody know somebody who only hits it 150 yards but chips and putts the liights out.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Long game is everything. Get as close as you can to the green and you'll score better.
		
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It really isn't especially at the OP level. Going for everything brings all the hazards into play as well as the risk of carving it left or right into rough. Playing a strategic game, using shots where applicable and working on a decent short game is a far less risky approach which will bring the desired scores on a far more regular basis.


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## Deano23 (Jul 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It really isn't especially at the OP level. Going for everything brings all the hazards into play as well as the risk of carving it left or right into rough. Playing a strategic game, using shots where applicable and working on a decent short game is a far less risky approach which will bring the desired scores on a far more regular basis.
		
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I totally agree. I'm on or near every green, but still struggle to break 80 these days. Only people who think putting is easy say that long game is everything!


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## guest100718 (Jul 22, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It really isn't especially at the OP level. Going for everything brings all the hazards into play as well as the risk of carving it left or right into rough. Playing a strategic game, using shots where applicable and working on a decent short game is a far less risky approach which will bring the desired scores on a far more regular basis.
		
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WHo said go for everything? Come on, no one uses thier shots, who in their right mind is going hit 2 wedges from 200 yards out if they have decent lie.


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## Stuey01 (Jul 22, 2014)

Deano23 said:



			I totally agree. I'm on or near every green, but still struggle to break 80 these days. Only people who think putting is easy say that long game is everything!
		
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BUT, you are on or near every green in reg, so your long game must be decent.
A short game is only any good to you if you are there or thereabouts to use it. Chipping your 4th shot every time is not going to lead to good scores.
I totally agree that chipping and putting is important, you can save so many shots in this area. But you have to be in position to use it or it's worthless.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			WHo said go for everything? Come on, no one uses thier shots, who in their right mind is going hit 2 wedges from 200 yards out if they have decent lie.
		
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I wish I had 

Stood on the 18th tee having taken 80, lowest round ever by miles. Lovely driver down the middle, 190 yards out, 5 iron. First ball hooked left OOB, dropped, second ball sliced into water hazard. Walked off with an 8.

Wish I had hit two wedges, two putts and shot an 85


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## guest100718 (Jul 22, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I wish I had 

Stood on the 18th tee having taken 80, lowest round ever by miles. Lovely driver down the middle, 190 yards out, 5 iron. First ball hooked left OOB, dropped, second ball sliced into water hazard. Walked off with an 8.

Wish I had hit two wedges, two putts and shot an 85
		
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As does Jean van de velde I bet...


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			As does Jean van de velde I bet...
		
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Hindsight is 20/20 eh! Of course the better option would have been a lovely 5 iron in to the green, and sunk the putt for an 83!


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## Stuey01 (Jul 22, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I wish I had 

Stood on the 18th tee having taken 80, lowest round ever by miles. Lovely driver down the middle, 190 yards out, 5 iron. First ball hooked left OOB, dropped, second ball sliced into water hazard. Walked off with an 8.

Wish I had hit two wedges, two putts and shot an 85
		
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Sounds like you need to work on your long irons


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 22, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			Sounds like you need to work on your long irons 

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And my mid irons, and my putting. But yes, my irons are not on fire at the moment, it's safe to say!


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## HickoryShaft (Jul 22, 2014)

I don't disagree with the original concept but one thing that has been said to me recently when I mentioned I wanted to get down to 14 handicap was dont aim so low - push yourself and aim to get to 10 .

If you analyse your game and look at how you can drop 10 shots (5 in my case) then you will have the main fundementals of getting to sub 85 every round even if you drop a few along the way.

Now - its clearly easier said than done but I started on this track last year and it really helped but then lost my way.

I am now back on the putting green and chipping area practising hard as I reckon I loose 4 - 6 shots a round from makable shots and relatively easy putts (I am not talking about Hail Mary shots either - ones where you would expect a much better result but duff them in one way or another) whereas hitting it slightly longer or slightly straighter will only save me 1 or 2 a round. I could work at hitting it longer all day that may save me a shot or two on a round and with a simple error on another shot still not achieve a lower score.

I have a game plan for my course and while I have to adjust for wind conditions or a poor shot every now and then (or more frequently some rounds!)  it really does help knowing up front what strategy for the hole is going to get you the best result for your game.

So starting point for me is analysing your own game and looking at where you drop shots and where your strengths are.

Like I said - easier said than done but this is where I would concentrate.


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## davidy233 (Jul 22, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			WHo said go for everything? Come on, no one uses thier shots, who in their right mind is going hit 2 wedges from 200 yards out if they have decent lie.
		
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I hit a driver 190-200 - I don't hit any club 200 yards from a fairway consistently - Anything over 200 yards I'm going to hit 6 iron (goes 135-145) and whatever club I need to get close from where it ends up.

Played back nine of an Open final qualifying course last night (Monifieth Medal) in 41 (six over gross) - sixes at the 10th, 12th and 17th (two three putts and a visit to a bunker) - the other six holes I was one under par (gross) - got up and down from over 100 yards twice - the best score I've had on the back nine and never once in real trouble - was out marking a card for someone so didn't finish every hole of front nine - but I'd guess I'd have shot around 85 (or seven under my handicap) - I've never been near that on this course thrashing a three wood or similar for second shot on 400 odd yard holes.


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## JamesR (Jul 22, 2014)

Learn how to turn double bogeys into bogeys.

Don't play Holywood shots when in trouble, don't take on too many 50/50 shots, concentrate on the next shot (not the last).


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## Deano23 (Jul 22, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			BUT, you are on or near every green in reg, so your long game must be decent.
A short game is only any good to you if you are there or thereabouts to use it. Chipping your 4th shot every time is not going to lead to good scores.
I totally agree that chipping and putting is important, you can save so many shots in this area. But you have to be in position to use it or it's worthless.
		
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I agree, but you can get on or pretty near most greens talking a hybrid or long iron from the tee. Don't get me wrong, I love hitting driver and recommend everyone hit it as often as possible simply because they'rte so damn easy to use these days. The only caveat is that I recommend a driver no longer than 44.5". With the big heads that length is perfect.


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## Sweep (Jul 22, 2014)

louise_a said:



			I am in the position of trying to consistently score under 85. I know I will usually have a good number of pars and an occasional birdie n most rounds, the problems are the double bogeys and worse.
My aim for the season s to have a competitive round with nothing worse than a bogey, I have done it once but in a team event, so that doesn't count as t wasn't a qualifier.
I know I will still hit a duff shot now and again, so its important to try to get up and down from near the green and certainly not take more than 3 shots as opposed to taking more than 3 which I used to do a lot and still occasionally do.
		
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I am right there with you trying to hit consistently under 85. like you I hit a good number of pars and the occasional birdie, but consistency is a big problem and the doubles and worse kill it for me. This is an excellent approach.


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## sev112 (Jul 22, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			.

First things first though- keep that damn ball in play off the tee (as per breaking 100 method).
		
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Spot on ..... But
Even th pros can't manage to do this, so it is a good philosophy but no guarantee

So, take out the clubs that hit you ball into the cackoff the tee
Then, if you are in cack, get out and make sure you get out, even if it is 20 yards; soooooo many lost shots when people try to play optimistic shots out of heather


THEN , attack the green if less than 160y
attack the green up to 180 if not much trouble , but on the safe side
Attack the green up to 200y if no trouble and you can hit a 5 wood almost every time without topping it.

I never hit over a bunker from more than 165 y out.  Always find the safe way in.

Practise your putting indoors

Learns to chip using my BobMac's Implement.


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## Cityfanbrian (Jul 22, 2014)

louise_a said:



			I am in the position of trying to consistently score under 85. I know I will usually have a good number of pars and an occasional birdie n most rounds, the problems are the double bogeys and worse.
My aim for the season s to have a competitive round with nothing worse than a bogey, I have done it once but in a team event, so that doesn't count as t wasn't a qualifier.
I know I will still hit a duff shot now and again, so its important to try to get up and down from near the green and certainly not take more than 3 shots as opposed to taking more than 3 which I used to do a lot and still occasionally do.
		
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This is me too ! Last week I shot 79 off the yellows but my goal is to shoot a double bogey free round in a qualifying comp!


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## davidy233 (Jul 23, 2014)

Cityfanbrian said:



			This is me too ! Last week I shot 79 off the yellows but my goal is to shoot a double bogey free round in a qualifying comp!
		
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I've done that once - bogeyed every hole - was second round of our 36 hole club championship (at previous club) and I was one off the lead of the handicap after first round - went out with philosophy of hit everything straight at the flag and it'll be very good or very bad - it actually ended up very mediocre without ever trying to hit a safe shot or lag a putt.


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## ForeRighty (Jul 23, 2014)

sev112 said:



			I never hit over a bunker from more than 165 y out.  Always find the safe way in.
		
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Really


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## scottbrown (Jul 23, 2014)

I guess 2 ways to do it.

Play safe ( read boring ) and while your handicap will improve it will only get so low. A 9 handicap has to shoot 9 pars around. Can't always do that by playing ultra safe and not taking on longish shots

Method 2. Practice, practice, practice short game. That way no matter where your long game puts you, as long as it's in play you will make a score - seems to have worked out ok for Phil mickle son.


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## sev112 (Jul 23, 2014)

ForeRighty said:



			Really
		
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Ok,  clarification, don't aim to hit over a front green side bunker from greater than that distance

Occasional par 3 there is no choice, then I pick the least worst spot to end up. If there is none, then I might as well go for the flag as anything.

But I watch FC after FC playing that distance all the time and ending up in the bunker, or complete mishit from trying too hard, coming off the hole with double, trebles and 10s.  But as long as they enjoy their golf who am I to judge


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## MashieNiblick (Jul 24, 2014)

As someone who usually scores in the 80's this got me thinking about what the difference is between the low ones and the high ones. I'd say the 3 main differences in my play between the those scores below 85 and those above are generally:

1. I hit more "good" shots - might just be the swing on the day but of course it is also influenced by practice and lessons
2. I make fewer mistakes - that is linked to 1 but also to a bit of course management; I make sure I take advantage of he easier holes and don't take chances on the harder ones. As a result of costly mistakes I've made I now play some  holes more conservatively, avoid unnecessary risks, and get better scores.
3. I have a better metal attitude, I don't let a bad hole or a 3 putt affect me so much, I stay confident that good holes will come  or that I will make a putt and I don't try to make up for mistakes with hero shots.

No idea if that helps at all but it was an interesting exercise for me.


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2014)

Ignore what the par of the hole is
Don't try a shot you haven't practiced 
Don't keep track of your score


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## Canary_Yellow (Jul 24, 2014)

MashieNiblick said:



			As someone who usually scores in the 80's this got me thinking about what the difference is between the low ones and the high ones. I'd say the 3 main differences in my play between the those scores below 85 and those above are generally:

1. I hit more "good" shots - might just be the swing on the day but of course it is also influenced by practice and lessons
2. I make fewer mistakes - that is linked to 1 but also to a bit of course management; I make sure I take advantage of he easier holes and don't take chances on the harder ones. As a result of costly mistakes I've made I now play some  holes more conservatively, avoid unnecessary risks, and get better scores.
3. I have a better metal attitude, I don't let a bad hole or a 3 putt affect me so much, I stay confident that good holes will come  or that I will make a putt and I don't try to make up for mistakes with hero shots.

No idea if that helps at all but it was an interesting exercise for me.
		
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To me that just seems to boil down to being better at golf than people that hit higher scores! All good points though, it's not true to say course management is the way to improve scores in isolation, that needs to be matched by improvements in skill in all parts of the game, most notably in my view, off the tee and short game (inc. putting).

What I find most interesting though, is that if you play very aggressively it's almost inevitable that one day you'll get a whole lot of luck combined with a good ball striking day and shoot a very low round - lower than if you play a little more conservatively. However, the more conservative approach will lead to more consistent results - I see the latter approach as the most sustainable.


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## RobertB (Jul 24, 2014)

My mind is still calibrated to old fashioned level 4s - 72 shots for a round, 36 thru the green and 36 putts.... where a  sub scratch round comes from is trimming 3-4 3rd shots on par 5s and then putting - no three putts. Where else? 

How does that relate to shooting 85 or 80...? 

Well lets say can't do better than 36 shots thru the green and I'll give you 18 2 putts so now analyse where the rest of shots beyond 72 come from. 

Depending on skill level there'll be a number of duffs, tops, fats.. but if you are aiming for 85 lets give you half a dozen of those... (1 every 3 holes) so still 7 more lost shots to score 85... lets say another 4 shots gone as long par 4s are effectively par 5's (so we are now saying effectively there are 8 3 shot holes in the round, take them as such!) ... so still 3 shots to play with... lets say you don't hit GIR on all par 3s ... so thats the shots used up.

Two things in my mind...where do the other shots 85+ come from...

First putting - you have to get that to a position where you don't three putt - you can't get penalty shots (OB, unplayables on green so to speak) so you should treat a 3 putt like you've incurred a penalty shot when reviewing your 18 holes every time. With some single putts holed you've banked some credit to spend on thru the green... So, every single putt green use that saved shot to offset against one lost elsewhere. 

Play the course to avoid OB, lost, water and unplayables (many of which all predominately come from off the tee or 'going for it' near the green...).

Hitting 80, hitting Par 3s in one, and minimising the half dozen duffs etc. while in control of putting and shots lost to penalties... 

Mid-high 70's then you start not needing a 3rd shot on the long par fours while getting all of above right ....

Dare say its fairly straightforward....arithmetic..  harder to do in practice with outside elements ...


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## two-clubs (Jul 24, 2014)

The short game is hugely important as we all know but pretty much every time I walk off a hole with a double (or worse) it's due to a poor tee shot.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

two-clubs said:



			The short game is hugely important as we all know but pretty much every time I walk off a hole with a double (or worse) it's due to a poor tee shot.
		
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Not for me. Whilst a poor tee shot will invariably make it difficult, the majority of my dropped shots come from the fact I am terrible from 50 yards or less in getting down in 2. It's nearly always a 3, (poor chip and 2 putts) and sometimes a 4 (the dreaded 3 putt because my initial chip was thinned/duffed/whatever). Getting back in play from a poor tee shot isn't usually an issue as I can still be chasing par or bogey. The problem comes I guess when after a poor tee shot you still try to play the hole like you normally would and chase the pin. Or in my case, poor tee shot, play sensible to recover and still then end up with your 4 shots from within 50 yards. I hate golf sometimes


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 24, 2014)

two-clubs said:



			The short game is hugely important as we all know but pretty much every time I walk off a hole with a double (or worse) it's due to a poor tee shot.
		
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I wish I could say that! I was 50 yards from the green on a par 4 the other day, 2 x duff chip, 1 x chip on, 2 x putt = double!

Myself and my friends have ranked the priorities, as we see them, to going low. As I'm still off 21, maybe they don't work!

1. Getting off the tee, 200-250 in play
2. No 3 putts
3. Chipping. Getting it close enough for a one putt, 50% of the time at least
4. Short irons  (100 yards to 175)
5. Long irons off the fairway
6. Hybrids and 3 woods off the fairway.

That's where my focus will be to get low, anyway!


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I wish I could say that! I was 50 yards from the green on a par 4 the other day, 2 x duff chip, 1 x chip on, 2 x putt = double!

Myself and my friends have ranked the priorities, as we see them, to going low. As I'm still off 21, maybe they don't work!

1. Getting off the tee, 200-250 in play
2. No 3 putts
3. Chipping. Getting it close enough for a one putt, 50% of the time at least
4. Short irons (100 yards to 175)
5. Long irons off the fairway
6. Hybrids and 3 woods off the fairway.

That's where my focus will be to get low, anyway!
		
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It's all about opinions and what you think works for you, but I honestly wouldn't have your number 1. Being in play is obviously very important, but the yardage isn't so much. Your opening sentence kind of proved where you need to focus on didn't it?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			It's all about opinions and what you think works for you, but I honestly wouldn't have your number 1. Being in play is obviously very important, but the yardage isn't so much. Your opening sentence kind of proved where you need to focus on didn't it?
		
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Ah but I also shot 88, my lowest score ever, and I was in play every time off the tee for once! (bar one longer par 3!)

Maybe not the yardage to my point 1, but that is where the big scores come from, we have found. If you're taking 3 off a tee, you're rarely going to score that well!


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 24, 2014)

Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this. You have to play one shot at a time and understand your own game so the answer is going to be different for everyone.. We're talking about 85 here so you don't need to par every hole. It's practically impossible to write down all of what you need to think about without boring the pants off of the forum but in general, the question "Do I need to?" is quite a good one to keep in mind. A few examples...



It's a 380yd par 4 with not much trouble, I could hit driver and leave myself a wedge\short iron..*but do i need to?*, I could take less club and leave myself a slightly longer approach. 
The lie is a bit iffy, I have to carry that bunker 140 yds away to reach the green....*but do i need to?* My bunker play isn't great and I'm not sure how this is going to come out so I could knock it to the side of the bunker and leave it just short of the green with an easy chip. 
I've missed the green and short-sided myself behind a bunker, I could pull the lob wedge and pretend I'm Phil Mickleson, I've done it before...*but do i need to?* The smart play is to forget the pin and make sure I clear the bunker and get somewhere on the green. 
I've missed the fairway and there is a gap between the trees, if I can keep it low with a 5i I might still make the green...*but do i need to?*. What's the safest way back into play, I'll take a bogey and move on. 

It all sounds a bit boring I know but when we're talking about breaking 85, there is no need to chase it. Anyone who can break 90 can break 85 with a bit of thought a realism.

Let's call this the "Do I need to?" plan, you heard it here first


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this. You have to play one shot at a time and understand your own game so the answer is going to be different for everyone.. We're talking about 85 here so you don't need to par every hole. It's practically impossible to write down all of what you need to think about without boring the pants off of the forum but in general, the question "Do I need to?" is quite a good one to keep in mind. A few examples...




It's a 380yd par 4 with not much trouble, I could hit driver and leave myself a wedge\short iron..*but do i need to?*, I could take less club and leave myself a slightly longer approach. 
The lie is a bit iffy, I have to carry that bunker 140 yds away to reach the green....*but do i need to?* My bunker play isn't great and I'm not sure how this is going to come out so I could knock it to the side of the bunker and leave it just short of the green with an easy chip. 
I've missed the green and short-sided myself behind a bunker, I could pull the lob wedge and pretend I'm Phil Mickleson, I've done it before...*but do i need to?* The smart play is to forget the pin and make sure I clear the bunker and get somewhere on the green. 
I've missed the fairway and there is a gap between the trees, if I can keep it low with a 5i I might still make the green...*but do i need to?*. What's the safest way back into play, I'll take a bogey and move on. 

It all sounds a bit boring I know but when we're talking about breaking 85, there is no need to chase it. Anyone who can break 90 can break 85 with a bit of thought a realism.

Let's call this the "Do I need to?" plan, you heard it here first 

Click to expand...

Yes you need to do all those things


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Yes you need to do all those things
		
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Really?


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## Deano23 (Jul 24, 2014)

For what it's worth, the best round I ever played where I was 1 over after 16 holes stood out for one reason. I had that calm and serene feeling that we saw Darren Clarke exhibit when he won the Open. I just felt so calm and at peace and unaffected by my playing partner or bad shots. I finished that round 4 over  simply because I happened to glance down at my score and saw what was at stake. I lost that calm and started thinking and plotting my way around the final two holes leading to a bogey and a double. I honestly think that if I'd let my partner take the score as he had been doing I'd have shot par because the last was a reachable par five.


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## Jack_bfc (Jul 24, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this. You have to play one shot at a time and understand your own game so the answer is going to be different for everyone.. We're talking about 85 here so you don't need to par every hole. It's practically impossible to write down all of what you need to think about without boring the pants off of the forum but in general, the question "Do I need to?" is quite a good one to keep in mind. A few examples...



It's a 380yd par 4 with not much trouble, I could hit driver and leave myself a wedge\short iron..*but do i need to?*, I could take less club and leave myself a slightly longer approach. 

Let's call this the "Do I need to?" plan, you heard it here first 


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I hit fairway more than I miss with the driver so on a 380 it would be driver and 8 iron ish....

If there is trouble around the 220-240 I may take the hybrid and then one of my smaller hybrids...

But driver is club off the tee for me....


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 24, 2014)

Jack_bfc said:



			I hit fairway more than I miss with the driver so on a 380 it would be driver and 8 iron ish....

If there is trouble around the 220-240 I may take the hybrid and then one of my smaller hybrids...

But driver is club off the tee for me....
		
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>50% FIR rate with a driver is impressive stuff for a 19 handicapper. I would think you were the target audience for this thread seeing as it's about breaking 85. A few weeks ago I would have said the same thing as you, driver on every hole, then I tried something different and got a bit of a surprise, you might do to.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			>50% FIR rate with a driver is impressive stuff for a 19 handicapper. I would think you were the target audience for this thread seeing as it's about breaking 85. A few weeks ago I would have said the same thing as you, driver on every hole, then I tried something different and got a bit of a surprise, you might do to.
		
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I have a good friend who struggles to break 100 and the driver is pretty much the only club he's actually any good at, almost regularly straight and around 200-240 mark. It's then he tries to get his 5 iron and 6 iron out that he falls on his face.

I'm like you though. Always used to be driver, but now I only use it on 10 holes at my place


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## matt611 (Jul 24, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, from the varied responses it is clear that a sub 85 plan is different to sub 100.  I think that Hawkeye's post sums up quite nicely that the mental side of the game and course management is very important for the sub 85.

It would appear that trying to make a 3 point plan is a little harder for sub 85 and could vary depending on each individuals strengths and weaknesses.

For me much of the original plan is still true but perhaps slightly tweaked

1 - *Get on the fairway from the tee*.  For me driving is a major weakness but I can hit my hybrid well so just use that
2 - *<190 to the green give it a go, but look to see where the good miss is*.  Irons are one of my strengths
3 - *>190 think carefully before going for the green*.  If it is too tricky make sure you leave a full club into the green
4 - *Do I need to.*  Take a couple of seconds to re-evaluate your shot and look to see where the danger is


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## Deano23 (Jul 24, 2014)

matt611 said:



			Thanks for the replies, from the varied responses it is clear that a sub 85 plan is different to sub 100.  I think that Hawkeye's post sums up quite nicely that the mental side of the game and course management is very important for the sub 85.

It would appear that trying to make a 3 point plan is a little harder for sub 85 and could vary depending on each individuals strengths and weaknesses.

For me much of the original plan is still true but perhaps slightly tweaked

1 - *Get on the fairway from the tee*.  For me driving is a major weakness but I can hit my hybrid well so just use that
2 - *<190 to the green give it a go, but look to see where the good miss is*.  Irons are one of my strengths
3 - *>190 think carefully before going for the green*.  If it is too tricky make sure you leave a full club into the green
4 - *Do I need to.*  Take a couple of seconds to re-evaluate your shot and look to see where the danger is
		
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Just to complicate things:

1) Yep, usually a good plan
2) <190 Don't make this a hard rule - take into account conditions, how you are feeling, swinging etc. 
3) Same as above. Be realistic though. 
4) Great advice. always look at it from the perspective of having just played the shot.


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## RobertB (Jul 24, 2014)

Don't fixate a strategy based on yardages. 

Its about the cost of a miss, whether a 50 yard pitch over a hazard or a 200 yd approach - what is cost if shot goes wrong? 
Then the Do I Need To question. 
As I said couple pages back my level 4s argument means you've got shots to play with.


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## NorfolkShaun (Jul 24, 2014)

Some really good reading here.

When I look back on a round there is always a few silly shots that cost me. Not keeping score is one that helps me most.

I do however play with two guys off slightly higher handicaps and one of these has been having a really bad time lately, I find this can break me if my FC's score well so do I so often.

Daft but I always seem to fall into a bad round if people i'm with are moaning / having a bad round.


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## Deano23 (Jul 24, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Some really good reading here.

When I look back on a round there is always a few silly shots that cost me. Not keeping score is one that helps me most.

I do however play with two guys off slightly higher handicaps and one of these has been having a really bad time lately, I find this can break me if my FC's score well so do I so often.

Daft but I always seem to fall into a bad round if people i'm with are moaning / having a bad round.
		
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This is what I was getting at in my post about my best round. I've since worked on meditation and mindfulness practices to attempt to stay more in the moment and be less affected by my playing partners etc.


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## NorfolkShaun (Jul 24, 2014)

Deano23 said:



			This is what I was getting at in my post about my best round. I've since worked on meditation and mindfulness practices to attempt to stay more in the moment and be less affected by my playing partners etc.
		
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This is probably my biggest problem if i'm honest, need to find a way to solve this.

Played in a team scramble with a 6 capper and played some of my best golf for ages, was in teams of 3 really relaxed. After the round the 6 capper said to me that he hopes to never see my name drawn against him in the match play.


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## Deano23 (Jul 24, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			This is probably my biggest problem if i'm honest, need to find a way to solve this.

Played in a team scramble with a 6 capper and played some of my best golf for ages, was in teams of 3 really relaxed. After the round the 6 capper said to me that he hopes to never see my name drawn against him in the match play.
		
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Watch your thoughts in both circumstances...


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## John_R7 (Jul 24, 2014)

Lots of good but conflicting advice - this doesn't make anyone right or wrong.

You need to look at your game (truthfully) and decide from there.
If you shoot 90 with 36 putts then you can do 85 with 31 putts without changing your game - concentrate on putting.
If you average around 32 - 33 putts then you probably need to look in depth to the rest of the game to decide where to devote practice.

On course try not to keep score. Stay calm but focused when required.
Forget what has already happened.
If you do keep score try counting to Level 5's.
If you assume 'standard' Par 72 with 4 Par 3's:-
        Level 5's is 90, 18 over (H/C if consistent)
        Level 5's but par the Par 3's is 82, 10 over (H/C if consistent)
        Even if you make 4's on the 3's you will still shoot 86

Personally I think it is short game and putting that gets me low. My long game is pretty good so I concentrate short game.
If your long game is poor then you can only salvage so much with a demon up & down touch so it is horses for courses.

Oh - keep the ball in play
Good luck, you will get there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2014)

I'd still be looking to play level 5's (90 for 18 holes). I would suggest you'll make enough 3's and 4's on the par threes and short par fives to offset a six at a par five or the odd bad hole. ,


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## RGDave (Jul 24, 2014)

scottbrown said:



			Play safe ( read boring ) and while your handicap will improve it will only get so low. A 9 handicap has to shoot 9 pars around. Can't always do that by playing ultra safe and not taking on longish shots
		
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Well said. I play boring on 7 holes at my course. That usually averages out at 7 over par. (1 x 1 putt, 1 x double bogey, that sort of thing).  That leaves me 11 holes to "make" a score. I'm never going to par much over half of them, so without birdies, that's playing to  7+5 or 7+6, which is like playing off 12.5.

Which is my exact handicap... and it's very boring. A few more up and downs might get me to 10 or 11, but I can't be bothered anymore.


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## Lydo (Jul 30, 2014)

Split your course up in to holes of 3. Try to be 2 over par in each section.

Or level 5s with a few 4s and 3s thrown in.


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