# Paris under attack



## bladeplayer (Nov 13, 2015)

Sky news now , 11 dead so far , WOW


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2015)

It sounds absolutely horrific!

*
Slime*.


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## bladeplayer (Nov 13, 2015)

Big powers need to wipe out this crowd at source .. 

Hostages taken & all .. horrific


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## Hobbit (Nov 13, 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34814203

Madness


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 13, 2015)

Sadly only going to get worse if hostages are taken


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## Grogger (Nov 13, 2015)

24 dead now and reports of 60 hostages at a concert in Paris. Could hear explosions at the France Germany match as well. 

What a wonderful world.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 13, 2015)

Does not sound good at all. Some upsetting photos on the sky news site.

? 60 hostages in a concert hall.


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## Grogger (Nov 13, 2015)

Latest picture from Stade de France. People not wanting to leave. Don't blame them.


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## brendy (Nov 13, 2015)

I think the stadium is locked down rather than the fans having a choice.


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## super hans (Nov 13, 2015)

It'll be happening on this scale on the streets of Britain soon enough - I'm surprised we've escaped this long since 7/7


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## SugarPenguin (Nov 13, 2015)

super hans said:



			It'll be happening on this scale on the streets of Britain soon enough - I'm surprised we've escaped this long since 7/7
		
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True that. 
Killing people and hostages doesn't sound like there will be a peaceful resolution. Terrible news


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 13, 2015)

It was an eagles of death metal concert.

A very established US band.

Apparently people are escaping


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## Grogger (Nov 13, 2015)

Another shooting being reported at a shopping mall

We can bomb them as much as we want it isn't going to be anywhere near as destructive as a terrorist with a gun and a stupid logic


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2015)

Deaths reported at the Stade de France now ..................................... suicide bomber apparently.

*Slime*.


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## Slime (Nov 13, 2015)

brendy said:



			I think the stadium is locked down rather than the fans having a choice.
		
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I've just heard the the whole of France is being locked down!
Apparently they're shutting all French borders, not sure how that's going to work.

*Slime*.


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## rickg (Nov 14, 2015)

Slime said:



			I've just heard the the whole of France is being locked down!
Apparently they're shutting all French borders, not sure how that's going to work.

*Slime*.
		
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 Not the airports though......I'm going there for 3 days on Wednesday on business.


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## rickg (Nov 14, 2015)

Hope the reports of 100 dead at the Bataclan are inaccurate


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## Grogger (Nov 14, 2015)

rickg said:



			Hope the reports of 100 dead at the Bataclan are inaccurate
		
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It's looking true according to reports. Some even saying 100 could be the minimum number of dead.


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## ger147 (Nov 14, 2015)

rickg said:



			Hope the reports of 100 dead at the Bataclan are inaccurate
		
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Sadly it looks like it's spot on.


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

8 attackers killed, 7 by their own suicide vests, all heavily armed with Kalashnikovs in the concert where they shot and murdered 80 hostages, 6 separate very soft targets, over 120 have lost their lives so far and over 200 injured so loss of life will rise unfortunately.

They will round up known associate's very quickly although reports of them (France) already knowing 4-5,000 people within France they have serious concerns about already is a growing problem!

We are kidding ourselves if we think this won't or can't happen within our country as we also know and monitor the best we can many individuals who are a major concern and yet they freely walk our streets and even demonstrate and peddle their hate towards us openly, it's time to take the kid gloves off, radical change has to be made, laws need to change immediately regarding deportation of anyone supporting, travelling to be trained and being involved in terrorism, most will hold dual nationalities so they should be stripped of ours and deported to their other nationality and the country they obviously feel strong enough to die for when called to arms!


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## chrisd (Nov 14, 2015)

Fish said:



			8 attackers killed, 7 by their own suicide vests, all heavily armed with Kalashnikovs in the concert where they shot and murdered 80 hostages, 6 separate very soft targets, over 120 have lost their lives so far and over 200 injured so loss of life will rise unfortunately.

They will round up known associate's very quickly although reports of them (France) already knowing 4-5,000 people within France they have serious concerns about already is a growing problem!

We are kidding ourselves if we think this won't or can't happen within our country as we also know and monitor the best we can many individuals who are a major concern and yet they freely walk our streets and even demonstrate and peddle their hate towards us openly, it's time to take the kid gloves off, radical change has to be made, laws need to change immediately regarding deportation of anyone supporting, travelling to be trained and being involved in terrorism, most will hold dual nationalities so they should be stripped of ours and deported to their other nationality and the country they obviously feel strong enough to die for when called to arms!
		
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This ^^^


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## Hobbit (Nov 14, 2015)

Whatever the politiking and security actions that need to take place following the horrendous attacks in Paris I hope no one loses sight of those who've lost loved ones and those that have been injured.


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## backwoodsman (Nov 14, 2015)

Batards!!

Vive la France...


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## ger147 (Nov 14, 2015)

As much as we cannot stop every single nutter, the nutters will also never win as we will never bow the knee to their acts of terror.

And so the real tragedy for me is at least 120 innocent people have been slaughtered and it's all for nothing...


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 14, 2015)

Cowards


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## Val (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm in Paris just now. It's all a bit mental just now with people wanting to go about their business and authorities saying stay indoors.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 14, 2015)

rickg said:



			Hope the reports of 100 dead at the Bataclan are inaccurate
		
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Sadly not.  I've just listened to an absolutely horrific description of the Bataclan attack from a BBC journalist, a friend of whose was there.  His friend was at the bar when they walked in and started shooting randomly, lay for over an hour underneath the body of another victim with his blood leaking onto her and next to a woman with half her face shot off, listening to sporadic shooting as they finished off people who had survived the initial attack and was then covered in human flesh as either a grenade or the suicide belts were set off.

The friend may have physically survived but I can't begin to think what that is going to do to their head.


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## bladeplayer (Nov 14, 2015)

Val said:



			I'm in Paris just now. It's all a bit mental just now with people wanting to go about their business and authorities saying stay indoors.
		
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Safe Stay & safe home Martin


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## pokerjoke (Nov 14, 2015)

Shocking scenes in Paris and my thoughts go out to the dead, injured and mentally scarred.

I said 10 years ago we would be looking over are shoulders for the rest of our lives at terrorists, security can never rest.

Intelligence is crucial and an amazing job is being done behind the scenes to stop these crazy organisations but it looks like its not enough unfortunately.

Where next who knows but it could be almost anywhere at any event at any time and once again security will be stepped up but as soon as our guard is let down slightly they will come again and forever I fear.

Obama,Cameron,ollonde can say what they want to these terrorists but they wont care they will just see it as a challenge and of course they will feel no remorse.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 14, 2015)

Val said:



			I'm in Paris just now. It's all a bit mental just now with people wanting to go about their business and authorities saying stay indoors.
		
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Stay safe mate.


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Shocking scenes in Paris and my thoughts go out to the dead, injured and mentally scarred.

I said 10 years ago we would be looking over are shoulders for the rest of our lives at terrorists, security can never rest.

Intelligence is crucial and an amazing job is being done behind the scenes to stop these crazy organisations but it looks like its not enough unfortunately.

Where next who knows but it could be almost anywhere at any event at any time and once again security will be stepped up *but as soon as our guard is let down slightly they will come again* and forever I fear.

Obama,Cameron,ollonde can say what they want to these terrorists but they wont care they will just see it as a challenge and of course they will feel no remorse.
		
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They won't have to come far, I fear most are already here..


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Fish said:



			They won't have to come far, I fear most are already here..
		
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A lot of this is to do with the decisions and actions of President George W Bush and Tony Blair a decade or so ago. An unjustified and illegal invasion of Iraq destabilised the Middle-East and created the ideal conditions for a fanatical group of Islamic revolutionaries such as IS to develop and flourish. To make the matters worse for European countries was the general lack of immigration control, allowing many of these people to infiltrate our societies as so-called refugees. We are now paying the penalties for those political decisions!

My sincere condolences to everyone in Paris affected by these atrocities.


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2015)

Truly horrific.


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## FairwayDodger (Nov 14, 2015)

Such a feeling of shock today. Just can't understand the mentality of people who would do this.


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## gregbwfc (Nov 14, 2015)

These things just seem to get worse every time, not sure what the best response is tbh.

Val, hope you're ok mate, stay safe.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 14, 2015)

Believe everyone knew 'something' was going to happen...

Just not what and where...

Won't be surprised if similar happens again in the near future...


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## Slime (Nov 14, 2015)

Another worry is just how many of them are streaming into Europe, and possibly heading for England, under the banner of Syrian refugees?

*Slime*.


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Slime said:



			Another worry is just how many of them are streaming into Europe, and possibly heading for England, under the banner of Syrian refugees?

*Slime*.
		
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Driving people out of Syria and Iraq and into Europe may be a deliberate policy by ISIS to destabilise the EC countries. I am sure that they will take the opportunity to infiltrate their jihadists amongst them!


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

Calais Jungle migrant camp was set on fire last night, reports only just coming through, think emotions will start to run high, especially with a fast growing right wing in France developing.


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## freddielong (Nov 14, 2015)

Fish said:



Calais Jungle migrant camp was set on fire last night, reports only just coming through, think emotions will start to run high, especially with a fast growing right wing in France developing. 


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That is what IS want, I believe that is why they attacked France again. They want to create anti Muslim feeling to try and turn this into an anti Muslim war, we cannot let that happen.


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

freddielong said:



			That is what IS want, I believe that is why they attacked France again. They want to create anti Muslim feeling to try and turn this into an anti Muslim war, we cannot let that happen.
		
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True but until the major Muslim countries and leading Muslim  leaders start condemning these actions and take a lead role in destroy terrorism the ordinary person in the street will feel this way.


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2015)

Read last night that the fire was a false report.  Old photos and video.


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Read last night that the fire was a false report.  Old photos and video.
		
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Makes sense, that's why it wasn't reported earlier today.


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## JustOne (Nov 14, 2015)

super hans said:



			It'll be happening on this scale on the streets of Britain soon enough - I'm surprised we've escaped this long since 7/7
		
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Gatwick North terminal currently evacuated after nut job apparently pulls a gun. My missus (who is safe) was right there and has told me 'I can't stop shaking'.


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## freddielong (Nov 14, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			True but until the major Muslim countries and leading Muslim  leaders start condemning these actions and take a lead role in destroy terrorism the ordinary person in the street will feel this way.
		
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Absolutely and for some reason our media seems happy to fuel the anti Muslim feeling.


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

​The so-called Islamic State group has claimed responsibility for the attacks in Paris. 
In a statement published online, the jihadist group said the attacks were designed to show France it remained a "top target".
The group claims it studied the target locations and carried out the attack using "eight brothers wearing explosive belts and carrying assault rifles".



*Share this post on*


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## JustOne (Nov 14, 2015)

freddielong said:



			Absolutely and for some reason our media seems happy to fuel the anti Muslim feeling.
		
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Why 'for some reason'... it's Muslims (extreme ones) who are doing these things so it's pretty obvious there will be negative sentiment towards them.


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

freddielong said:



			Absolutely and for some reason our media seems happy to fuel the anti Muslim feeling.
		
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And fueling the far write.

An interesting article ,


Peter Neumann, Professor of Security Studies at King's College London, spoke to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about the effect of terror attacks on societies.


This is the attack everybody has been dreading for at least a couple of years. This is really important because it is the essence of terrorism, it is not only about people being killed it is about creating a political effect. What worries me the most is that we will see in France and other European countries a polarisation, with different extremists egging each other on. People on the far right trying to take advantage. It's about dividing societies. This was a big attack but even relatively small attacks are dangerous because of the political situation, because of the chain reaction they can cause.
Peter Neumann


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## freddielong (Nov 14, 2015)

JustOne said:



			Why 'for some reason'... it's Muslims (extreme ones) who are doing these things so it's pretty obvious there will be negative sentiment towards them.
		
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Because it's not balanced we didn't go out and hate all the irish during the IRA troubles.


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## freddielong (Nov 14, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			And fueling the far write.

An interesting article ,


Peter Neumann, Professor of Security Studies at King's College London, spoke to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about the effect of terror attacks on societies.


This is the attack everybody has been dreading for at least a couple of years. This is really important because it is the essence of terrorism, it is not only about people being killed it is about creating a political effect. What worries me the most is that we will see in France and other European countries a polarisation, with different extremists egging each other on. People on the far right trying to take advantage. It's about dividing societies. This was a big attack but even relatively small attacks are dangerous because of the political situation, because of the chain reaction they can cause.
Peter Neumann
		
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Exactly IS cannot win as it is, they need to unite all Muslims to have a chance, what better way to do that than turning everyone else against them.


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

freddielong said:



			That is what IS want, I believe that is why they attacked France again. They want to create anti Muslim feeling to try and turn this into an anti Muslim war, we cannot let that happen.
		
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There has been a Holy War going on between Muslims and Christians for many centuries. Remember the Crusades? You would think we should have grown out of this by now, but we haven't. Whatever you thought about Saddam Hussain, at least he ran a largely secular country in Iraq, but this was destroyed by the so-called "War Against Terror" instigated by Bush and Blair. We are now reaping what these misguided politicians managed to sow!  Personally, I don't think religion should be a justification for any war or act of terrorism. If people want to believe in any God or Idol, this should be a personal choice, and should not impinge on others of different beliefs.  :angry:


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

Until the war between Muslim religions is sorted which make the ones between Muslim and Christian pretty small this is going to go on.


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Until the war between Muslim religions is sorted which make the ones between Muslim and Christian pretty small this is going to go on.
		
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True, but think about the wars between Protestants and Catholics, both Christian religions, in our own country in the not too distant past!  :mmm:


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## JCW (Nov 14, 2015)

Lets get one thing straight , these guys are not muslims , they are terrorists and evil , nothing more to say jose


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 14, 2015)

apparently there was a  serious fire in the Calais Refugee camp last night, but it was caused by candles falling over and not by any "revenge motive"
it shows how things like Twitter can take mis information, spread it like wildfire (excuse the wording) and to many it then becomes fact.
This is dangerous.
Thoughts are with everyone affected by last nights horrors


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## Craigg (Nov 14, 2015)

delc said:



			There has been a Holy War going on between Muslims and Christians for many centuries. Remember the Crusades? You would think we should have grown out of this by now, but we haven't. Whatever you thought about Saddam Hussain, at least he ran a largely secular country in Iraq, but this was destroyed by the so-called "War Against Terror" instigated by Bush and Blair. We are now reaping what these misguided politicians managed to sow!  Personally, I don't think religion should be a justification for any war or act of terrorism. If people want to believe in any God or Idol, this should be a personal choice, and should not impinge on others of different beliefs.  :angry:
		
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Can't believe some of the crap you spout sometimes. Have you conveniently forgotten Saddam Hussein murdered between 5000 and 10000 Kurds with chemical weapons.


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Craigg said:



			Can't believe some of the crap you spout sometimes. Have you conveniently forgotten Saddam Hussein murdered between 5000 and 10000 Kurds with chemical weapons.
		
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Not saying he was a particularly nice fellow, but several hundreds of thousands of people died as a direct or indirect result of the Iraq war!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 14, 2015)

freddielong said:



			Because it's not balanced we didn't go out and hate all the irish during the IRA troubles.
		
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Some did, but we have to be careful as some have said, these are terrorists first, the banner they fight under can change just as they have done in the past.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 14, 2015)

delc said:



			Not saying he was a particularly nice fellow, but several hundreds of thousands of people died as a direct or indirect result of the Iraq war!  

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Maybe right now isn't the time for you to pursue a political agenda


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe right now isn't the time for you to pursue a political agenda
		
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So do you believe that the heinous attack on Paris was not part of a political agenda, spiced up with a bit of religious zealotry?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 14, 2015)

delc said:



			So do you believe that the heinous attack on Paris was not part of a political agenda, spiced up with a bit of religious zealotry?  

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Right now all thoughts are with the people and families who have lost loved ones.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now all thoughts are with the people and families who have lost loved ones.
		
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This Delc, Phil is spot on, there will be plenty of time to discuss motive.


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

delc said:



			So do you believe that the heinous attack on Paris was not part of a political agenda, spiced up with a bit of religious zealotry?  

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Which religion, which sect, what is your understanding of the Muslim faith or do you think all Muslims are the same.


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			This Delc, Phil is spot on, there will be plenty of time to discuss motive.
		
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Not too much to discuss, they hate us and everything we stand for, so might as well close the thread!


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Right now all thoughts are with the people and families who have lost loved ones.
		
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Unfortunately most thoughts will be where next.


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Which religion, which sect, what is your understanding of the Muslim faith or do you think all Muslims are the same.
		
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I know there are two branches of Islam, Sunni and Shia. Like us they believe in one god (Allah) and their major prophet is Mohammed, although Jesus is also one of their prophets. I am sure they are not all 'the same'.


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## FairwayDodger (Nov 14, 2015)

JCW said:



			Lets get one thing straight , these guys are not muslims , they are terrorists and evil , nothing more to say jose
		
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Islamic state? I think the clue's in the name.


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

delc said:



			I know there are two branches of Islam, Sunni and Shia. Like us they believe in one god (Allah) and their major prophet is Mohammed, although Jesus is also one of their prophets. I am sure they are not all 'the same'.
		
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So which major middle eastern state supports ISIS


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			So which major middle eastern state supports ISIS
		
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Take your pick!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29004253


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

delc said:



			Take your pick!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29004253

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Goes much deeper. Arab politics changes by the day and far to complex for a simpleton like me to express in words. No terrorist has fought just over religious matters.


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

and if it couldn't get any worse for them, this happens...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-eur...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2015)

Val said:



			I'm in Paris just now. It's all a bit mental just now with people wanting to go about their business and authorities saying stay indoors.
		
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Jusr seen that Glasgow Warriors were due to play in Paris, and I knew you were considering going.

So relieved to hear your ok mate, get back to Blighty as soon as you can, let all your family know your safe. Let us know when your back. 

Sad,sad day for humankind, thoughts with all of France.


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## Fish (Nov 14, 2015)

It was a self-contained cell, news coming through as the attackers (murderers) are being identified, Bataclan attacker was a Frenchman already "known" to police and the Stade de France attackers had Egyptian & Syrian passports, starting to look like there will be British casualties amongst those killed also!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central


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## Rooter (Nov 14, 2015)

The whole British casualties thing our press start going on about bugs me. Over 127 people are now reported dead, I personally don't care where they come from, I am saddened by the loss caused to their families etc. It's a disaster but our press headline is 1 Briton and maybe more be in the number. Sorry going OT..

Anyway, I have been in a very somber mood all day over this, spent a lot of time in Paris, have family there and friends and colleagues, all safe but it makes you reflect. Mrs R is now getting anxious with my work travels, 2 or 3 days a week I am in a European capital for work. Not a nice mindset to be in. 

#JeSuisParisian


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 14, 2015)

Rooter said:



			The whole British casualties thing our press start going on about bugs me. Over 127 people are now reported dead, I personally don't care where they come from, I am saddened by the loss caused to their families etc. It's a disaster but our press headline is 1 Briton and maybe more be in the number. Sorry going OT..

Anyway, I have been in a very somber mood all day over this, spent a lot of time in Paris, have family there and friends and colleagues, all safe but it makes you reflect. Mrs R is now getting anxious with my work travels, 2 or 3 days a week I am in a European capital for work. Not a nice mindset to be in. 

#JeSuisParisian
		
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I agree but sadly, the British angle sells papers. Not right in the slightest and I echo your sentiments that regardless of their nationality, people are now without their loved ones


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## cookelad (Nov 14, 2015)

Great to hear the stories of people opening their doors and dragging stranger's out of harms way, there are still good folks out there!


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## Imurg (Nov 14, 2015)

If I was a true Muslim, living in France right now, I'd be absolutely cakking myself waiting for the almost inevitable reprisals. There's a lot of frightened people on both sides at the moment.
I'd also be asking my Leaders why they're not doing anything about the Pond Life that's dragging my religion further down than the gutters of Hell.
Simply by using the name "Islamic State" they are perpetrating these acts in the name of that religion.
If Islam doesn't want to be associated with IS then its time for them to do something about it.
Until this happens....keep a watchful eye.


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## delc (Nov 14, 2015)

Fish said:



			It was a self-contained cell, news coming through as the attackers (murderers) are being identified, Bataclan attacker was a Frenchman already "known" to police and the Stade de France attackers had Egyptian & Syrian passports, starting to look like there will be British casualties amongst those killed also!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

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The Syrian was apparently a migrant who entered the EU through Greece.


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## Old Skier (Nov 14, 2015)

That damn Schengen Agreement, people are just wandering around all over the place.


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## Jimaroid (Nov 14, 2015)

delc said:



			The Syrian was apparently a migrant who entered the EU through Greece.
		
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That's not known. It's only a passport that was seen in Greece, it could have been stolen, forged, borrowed or whatever.

Maybe let the bodies cool down before jumping to conclusions.


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## Val (Nov 14, 2015)

Bodies of the dead are barely cold over here FFS. Certain posters here need to show some respect.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 14, 2015)

Val said:



			Bodies of the dead are barely cold over here FFS. Certain posters here need to show some respect.
		
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Well said mate, hope you're safe and well


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## hovis (Nov 14, 2015)

I think the biggest mistake they made was bombing that russian plane.    You can mess the British,  Americans,  French and Germans about but the russians don't take any crap from anyone.   Putin doesn't care about Congress or future election.   He's a bad as mofo and he's gonna make them pay (i hope)


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## Val (Nov 14, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Well said mate, hope you're safe and well
		
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Im all cool bud, a few too many beers tonight maybe has me a tad resentful but I'm not caring, people need to respect the dead first and foremost.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 14, 2015)

Val said:



			Im all cool bud, a few too many beers tonight maybe has me a tad resentful but I'm not caring, people need to respect the dead first and foremost.
		
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Glad to hear your ok, feel for you being there at such a horrific time, totally agree with your sentiments, reported the other thread earlier and thankfully they've locked it.


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## IanG (Nov 14, 2015)

hovis said:



			He's a bad as mofo and he's gonna make them pay (i hope)
		
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Sadly more bombing & killing rarely leads where you want to get to.


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## HDID Kenny (Nov 14, 2015)

freddielong said:



			Because it's not balanced we didn't go out and hate all the irish during the IRA troubles.
		
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No but it made you suspicious of Irish strangers visiting the mainland, and this will be the general feeling in the UK when Muslims settle in out towns and city's, it's human nature.


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## hovis (Nov 14, 2015)

IanG said:



			Sadly more bombing & killing rarely leads where you want to get to.
		
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What do you propose?   A nice chat?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2015)

Val said:



			Im all cool bud, a few too many beers tonight maybe has me a tad resentful but I'm not caring, people need to respect the dead first and foremost.
		
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Beer or not mate, spot on. The "experts" on here should show some respect for the dead and injured all caught up in these terrible events first, before spouting their amateur musings, recriminations and reasons for this terrible attack.


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## freddielong (Nov 14, 2015)

HDID Kenny said:



			No but it made you suspicious of Irish strangers visiting the mainland, and this will be the general feeling in the UK when Muslims settle in out towns and city's, it's human nature.
		
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Of course it's human nature self preservation and all that but 99,999 times out of 100,000 the suspicions are totally unfounded


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## IanG (Nov 15, 2015)

hovis said:



			What do you propose?   A nice chat?
		
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A nice chat would be a waste of breath as you well know. There is no quick fix neither through chatting nor bombing. It may be naive but I believe  the only sustainable solution it through education. 

That does't mean meantime we don't need to defend ourselves against (=kill) the maniacs, but long term, showing that rational thought can lead to a world view which respects others is the only way forward.


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## hovis (Nov 15, 2015)

IanG said:



			A nice chat would be a waste of breath as you well know. There is no quick fix neither through chatting nor bombing. It may be naive but I believe  the only sustainable solution it through education. 

That does't mean meantime we don't need to defend ourselves against (=kill) the maniacs, but long term, showing that rational thought can lead to a world view which respects others is the only way forward.
		
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Maybe education for the long term would work.  But the only language these people listen to short term comes on the end of a gps guidance chip


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## bladeplayer (Nov 15, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Beer or not mate, spot on. The "experts" on here should show some respect for the dead and injured all caught up in these terrible events first, before spouting their amateur musings, recriminations and reasons for this terrible attack.
		
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MOST ACCURATE  POST EVER ON HERE .. Well put Pete 

Keep safe Martin .


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## MegaSteve (Nov 15, 2015)

Surprised the footie is going ahead but feel its the right decision...


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## Fish (Nov 15, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			That's not known. It's only a passport that was seen in Greece, it could have been stolen, forged, borrowed or whatever.

Maybe let the bodies cool down before jumping to conclusions.


Click to expand...

But it's not jumping to conclusions, it's all over the national news channels.


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## Slime (Nov 15, 2015)

delc said:



			The Syrian was *apparently* a migrant who entered the EU through Greece.
		
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Jimaroid said:



			That's not known. It's only a passport that was seen in Greece, it could have been stolen, forged, borrowed or whatever.

*Maybe let the bodies cool down before jumping to conclusions.*


Click to expand...

To be fair, I don't think *delc *was jumping to conclusions, he was merely reporting what he'd heard in the press .................... as many of us do from time to time.




Fish said:



			But it's not jumping to conclusions, it's all over the national news channels.
		
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I was just about to say the same ............................ spot on *Fish*, my thoughts exactly.

Time for us all to cool down a tad.

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 15, 2015)

Just when I thought Trump couldn't be anymore of a complete ....... - he now uses Paris attack to fuel his political agenda and gun lobby ?!?! 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...ctims-sot.cnn0735PMVideoVideo&linkId=18758301


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## Grogger (Nov 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just when I thought Trump couldn't be anymore of a complete ....... - he now uses Paris attack to fuel his political agenda and gun lobby ?!?! 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...ctims-sot.cnn0735PMVideoVideo&linkId=18758301

Click to expand...

He's such a nob but some Americans seem to lap it up!! Every time there's a debate I always hear that he's leading the poll's. If he ever came into power we'd be really doomed!


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 15, 2015)

;



Liverpoolphil said:



			Just when I thought Trump couldn't be anymore of a complete ....... - he now uses Paris attack to fuel his political agenda and gun lobby ?!?! 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...ctims-sot.cnn0735PMVideoVideo&linkId=18758301

Click to expand...

Not that I condone what he is saying in any way shape or form, but all he is doing is using the tragic events to forward his own political agenda. In the same way certain elements of the press (hello Sunday Times headline today) and I am sure a few on here, are desperate to link the terrorists with the Syrian refugee crisis. In their minds it helps to justify their position on gun laws or immigration. 

Very undignified but depressingly not unexpected.


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## Old Skier (Nov 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just when I thought Trump couldn't be anymore of a complete ....... - he now uses Paris attack to fuel his political agenda and gun lobby ?!?! 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...ctims-sot.cnn0735PMVideoVideo&linkId=18758301

Click to expand...

He's in Texas - they want the law changed so they can openly carry - he wants votes. As a politician he will say the things that voters want to here, no different to our polititions really.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 15, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			;

Not that I condone what he is saying in any way shape or form, but all he is doing is using the tragic events to forward his own political agenda. In the same way certain elements of the press (hello Sunday Times headline today) and I am sure a few on here, are desperate to link the terrorists with the Syrian refugee crisis. In their minds it helps to justify their position on gun laws or immigration. 

Very undignified but depressingly not unexpected.
		
Click to expand...

I know exactly what he is doing - that was the point I was making. That some people are that low they use tradegy when raw to push their own political agenda


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 15, 2015)

Trump is a fool and this was a poor attempt to use a huge tragedy to promote his own agenda and political views. Terrible


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## delc (Nov 15, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Trump is a fool and this was a poor attempt to use a huge tragedy to promote his own agenda and political views. Terrible
		
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He was probably trying to pander to the gun lobby in the US. Not sure that small pistols that ordinary citizens might carry around with them would have been much of a match for assault weapons anyway!


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## Old Skier (Nov 15, 2015)

Shame the world media arnt giving the same coverage to the 41 people that were killed by ISIS in Lebanon.


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## Old Skier (Nov 16, 2015)

Stolen but may/or may not help:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)


So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.


By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.


Getting back to Syria.


So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?


But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).


Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.


So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.


Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).


So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but letâ€™s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).


To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)


Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.


So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?


I hope that clears all this up for you.


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## sev112 (Nov 16, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Stolen but may/or may not help:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)


So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.


By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.


Getting back to Syria.


So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?


But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).


Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.


So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.


Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).


So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but letâ€™s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).


To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)


Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.


So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?


I hope that clears all this up for you.
		
Click to expand...

Brilliant - apply ad infinitum to every historical conflict


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## freddielong (Nov 16, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Stolen but may/or may not help:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)


So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.


By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.


Getting back to Syria.


So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?


But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).


Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.


So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.


Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).


So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but letâ€™s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).


To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)


Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.


So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?


I hope that clears all this up for you.
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha great post


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## Hobbit (Nov 16, 2015)

Actually, that very good, in a bad sort of way.


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## user2010 (Nov 17, 2015)

You should`ve put at the top............."Previously on Soap".:thup:


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## Ethan (Nov 17, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Stolen but may/or may not help:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)


So the Americans (*who are good*) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.


By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.


Getting back to Syria.


So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?


But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).


Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.


So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.


Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).


So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but letâ€™s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).


To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)


Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.


So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?


I hope that clears all this up for you.
		
Click to expand...


The Americans are good. Really?

Aren't they the ones who have repeatedly interfered in the affairs of sovereign states, particularly in the Middle East, starting with Iran in 1954, and several times since, including being friends with Saddam, then enemies with Saddam, then removing him and unplugging the balance of power that existed, not caring too much about theist Islamic factions believing they would just screw around with people in the local area, and allowing other actors to rise, not to mention supporting Israel's move to nuclear power, which now carries a risk of Armageddon in the region. 

I think there is s simpler analysis of the region. There are only ever two options, bad and worse, although it is impossible to tell which is which, so mess with it at your peril.


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## chrisd (Nov 17, 2015)

I knew it was really simple!


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## Old Skier (Nov 17, 2015)

Ethan said:



			The Americans are good. Really?
.
		
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Quite agree, they at times choose which terrorist organization they like to support and made some very poor decisions. Just need to look at 1970-1990,s.

I see you have allowed your political views and *******ized the logo being used by the French and their supporters.

Its a tear drop and not some poor hash up of the ban the bomb sign.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 17, 2015)

And so the swivel-eyed loons are on the march. 

Listening to a phone-in earlier one contributor decided that because the French had naval vessels and aircraft in the vicinity before Friday -  he reckoned that it is *highly convenient* that Friday's atrocities happened - giving a reason for the French to engage in a 'war' with ISIS.  And making 1+1=3 his logical conclusion was that the French government and secret services were behind Friday.  Oh yes - the French themselves encouraged or enabled ISIS to attack paris on Friday.  You couldn't make this sort of stuff up - but of course you can ...


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 17, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so the swivel-eyed loons are on the march. 

Listening to a phone-in earlier one contributor decided that because the French had naval vessels and aircraft in the vicinity before Friday -  he reckoned that it is *highly convenient* that Friday's atrocities happened - giving a reason for the French to engage in a 'war' with ISIS.  And making 1+1=3 his logical conclusion was that the French government and secret services were behind Friday.  Oh yes - the French themselves encouraged or enabled ISIS to attack paris on Friday.  You couldn't make this sort of stuff up - but of course you can ...
		
Click to expand...

That will teach you for listening to Talk Sport....


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## Ethan (Nov 17, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Quite agree, they at times choose which terrorist organization they like to support and made some very poor decisions. Just need to look at 1970-1990,s.

I see you have allowed your political views and *******ized the logo being used by the French and their supporters.

Its a tear drop and not some poor hash up of the ban the bomb sign.
		
Click to expand...

I haven't changed the logo, just copied it in from Facebook. Sorry if you disapprove (although I am not really sorry).

It is a mixture of the Eiffel Tower and the traditional peace symbol, obviously. The same peace symbol is the basis of CND's logo. The artist didn't mention anything to do with a tear drop.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 17, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Stolen but may/or may not help:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)


So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.


By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.


Getting back to Syria.


So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?


But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).


Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.


So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.


Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).


So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but letâ€™s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).


To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)


Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.


So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?


I hope that clears all this up for you.
		
Click to expand...

Clear as mud but funny


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## Fish (Nov 18, 2015)

Standoff in operation, heavy gunfire exchanges going on currently, 2 possibly 3 men barricaded inside a complex, looks at face value they've found the other people involved, can't see them surrendering so this will depend on the scale of weapons they have inside to how this unfolds.


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## Grogger (Nov 18, 2015)

Reports that one off them was a female who blew herself up


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## rickg (Nov 18, 2015)

Just been evacuated from Marseilles Airport. Seems like they have found an unattended suitcase.....either a nobhead who has no idea how stupid it is to leave anything unattended, or it's the real thing.....hoping for the nobhead theory.

Roads in and out have been closed, but I was lucky enough to find a taxi driver who was prepared to drive off road to get away from the airport.  
Arrived at the hotel safely.....coming home Friday night.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 18, 2015)

rickg said:



			Just been evacuated from Marseilles Airport. Seems like they have found an unattended suitcase.....either a nobhead who has no idea how stupid it is to leave anything unattended, or it's the real thing.....hoping for the nobhead theory.

Roads in and out have been closed, but I was lucky enough to find a taxi driver who was prepared to drive off road to get away from the airport.  
Arrived at the hotel safely.....coming home Friday night.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm, that makes it even more real. I hope its nothing! Be safe.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2015)

rickg said:



			Just been evacuated from Marseilles Airport. Seems like they have found an unattended suitcase.....either a nobhead who has no idea how stupid it is to leave anything unattended, or it's the real thing.....hoping for the nobhead theory.

Roads in and out have been closed, but I was lucky enough to find a taxi driver who was prepared to drive off road to get away from the airport.  
Arrived at the hotel safely.....coming home Friday night.
		
Click to expand...

Back to the days of the 80's when every unattended item will be treated as suspect 

Stay safe mate :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2015)

rickg said:



			Just been evacuated from Marseilles Airport. Seems like they have found an unattended suitcase.....either a nobhead who has no idea how stupid it is to leave anything unattended, or it's the real thing.....hoping for the nobhead theory.

Roads in and out have been closed, but I was lucky enough to find a taxi driver who was prepared to drive off road to get away from the airport.  
Arrived at the hotel safely.....coming home Friday night.
		
Click to expand...

Stay safe out there matey. Hope the return journey is less eventful


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 18, 2015)

RIP Diesel, the police dog killed in today's raid, and get well soon to the police officers who have been injured.


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## Slime (Nov 18, 2015)

Wow .................................... just wow!

[video=youtube_share;lRbbEQkraYg]https://youtu.be/lRbbEQkraYg[/video]

*Slime*.


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## rickg (Nov 18, 2015)

Thought I'd be reasonably safe in the South in Marseilles, but first the airport gets evacuated, then a Jewish teacher gets stabbed by 3 so called ISIS members in Marseilles.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2015)

rickg said:



			Just been evacuated from Marseilles Airport. Seems like they have found an unattended suitcase.....either a nobhead who has no idea how stupid it is to leave anything unattended, or it's the real thing.....hoping for the nobhead theory.

Roads in and out have been closed, but I was lucky enough to find a taxi driver who was prepared to drive off road to get away from the airport.  
Arrived at the hotel safely.....coming home Friday night.
		
Click to expand...

According to your FB, its not going well! Is this a work related trip?


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## rickg (Nov 18, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			According to your FB, its not going well! Is this a work related trip?
		
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Indeed it is.....


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## Val (Nov 18, 2015)

rickg said:



			Indeed it is.....
		
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Stay safe buddy


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2015)

rickg said:



			Indeed it is.....
		
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Given what you posted, keep safe you daft old lump


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## Foxholer (Nov 19, 2015)

'Progress'!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34867615


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## Old Skier (Nov 19, 2015)

More interested in the 3 they caught alive.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 19, 2015)

IS have now executed a Chinese hostage.  They do know how to make powerful enemies and seem hell bent on aligning all the world superpowers against them..


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## hovis (Nov 19, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			IS have now executed a Chinese hostage.  They do know how to make powerful enemies and seem hell bent on aligning all the world superpowers against them..
		
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Blimey, the Chinese are just as nutts as the russians.   Stand by


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 19, 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34873057

Oh dear 

He is a dangerous man


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 19, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			IS have now executed a Chinese hostage.  They do know how to make powerful enemies and seem hell bent on aligning all the world superpowers against them..
		
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I agree. Can hardly be a smart move strategically and you don't want them on your case.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 19, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34873057

Oh dear 

He is a dangerous man
		
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I wish he would keep his mouth shut as I am playing 2 of his courses next year. And I feel just that little bit guilty when he comes out with stuff like this.


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## the smiling assassin (Nov 19, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			I wish he would keep his mouth shut as I am playing 2 of his courses next year. And I feel just that little bit guilty when he comes out with stuff like this.
		
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He was spouting his despicable rhetoric long before you booked your rounds!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34873057

Oh dear 

He is a dangerous man
		
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Might yet backfire on him;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-34902694

Fair play to those standing up to him.


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## netrghjhw (Nov 24, 2015)

It's a unfortunate for our entire world,it's time for us to do sth meaningfully!!!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

Just not being convinced at all by Cameron's 'arguments' for joining in the bombing of Daesh targets in Syria - all I'm hearing is stentorious and portentous Churchillian exclamations from him that we must do something and 'Britain's got Balls' so we can do bombing just like the others.  But the others might be wrong.

We are told that air strikes by themselves will not work - and that ground forces are required to defeat Daesh.  And who will provide these ground forces - well Michael Fallon reckons that'll be 'moderate' Syrian government forces.  So when are we going to have such a government and how the heck is it going to come about - Putin will need a bit of shifting on that - and it isn't going to happen tomorrow.

Meanwhile if we do go ahead and join in the fun - what outcome?  What benefit?  How would it reduce the threat of terrorist attack on UK soil.  I just can't see that us joining in will. All it will say to those being bombed is that the UK is part of the enemy and has to be dealt with accordingly - and so brothers and sisters in the UK - do your stuff.

Really concerning to me that we seem to be heading into war (because that is where we'll be - at war) because of a 'something must be done' and 'we can do something' argument.  Well we can.  We can say No - We can say that we're not joining France, USA and Russia in their wargames - and if that upsets them well so be it.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 24, 2015)

Bombing and drones only adds fuel to the fire. It acts as a recruitment poster.

The 'must do something' brigade must also be prepared to get blood on their hands and lose many UK troops. 
They will be sucked into a 'conventional' boots on the ground war against a fearless well equipped and trained army.

Choose your fights carefully, this is one I would be inclined to avoid.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Just not being convinced at all by Cameron's 'arguments' for joining in the bombing of Daesh targets in Syria - all I'm hearing is stentorious and portentous Churchillian exclamations from him that we must do something and 'Britain's got Balls' so we can do bombing just like the others.  But the others might be wrong.

We are told that air strikes by themselves will not work - and that ground forces are required to defeat Daesh.  And who will provide these ground forces - well Michael Fallon reckons that'll be 'moderate' Syrian government forces.  So when are we going to have such a government and how the heck is it going to come about - Putin will need a bit of shifting on that - and it isn't going to happen tomorrow.

Meanwhile if we do go ahead and join in the fun - what outcome?  What benefit?  How would it reduce the threat of terrorist attack on UK soil.  I just can't see that us joining in will. All it will say to those being bombed is that the UK is part of the enemy and has to be dealt with accordingly - and so brothers and sisters in the UK - do your stuff.

Really concerning to me that we seem to be heading into war (because that is where we'll be - at war) because of a 'something must be done' and 'we can do something' argument.  Well we can.  We can say No - We can say that we're not joining France, USA and Russia in their wargames - and if that upsets them well so be it.
		
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A fellow yoghurt knitter after my own heart....


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

So you want us to stand back and do nothing ?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you want us to stand back and do nothing ?
		
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In respect of bombing Syria - yes.  Haven't heard any rationale explanation of why our involvement adds anything when the parallel track of getting a 'moderate' Syrian government (i.e. Assad gone) is nowhere.  So the bombing continues (with or without us) and there are no moderate Syrian government troops to to the groundwork - and things get nowhere and we need troops on the ground.  As we are involved in the bombing our allies in the bombing campaign expect us to provide troops on the ground as we are part of that problem needing sorted.  

So yes - on the bombing front we stand back and do nothing until a strategy is in place that gives the bombing a context; a set of objectives; and an outcome that is not just aspirational but realistic and achievable in the short to medium term and for which there is a plan - and that Putin has signed up to.


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## Sweep (Nov 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Meanwhile if we do go ahead and join in the fun - what outcome?  What benefit?  How would it reduce the threat of terrorist attack on UK soil.  I just can't see that us joining in will. All it will say to those being bombed is that the UK is part of the enemy and has to be dealt with accordingly - and so brothers and sisters in the UK - do your stuff.

Really concerning to me that we seem to be heading into war (because that is where we'll be - at war) because of a 'something must be done' and 'we can do something' argument.  Well we can.  We can say No - We can say that we're not joining France, USA and Russia in their wargames - and if that upsets them well so be it.
		
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My goodness. All I can think is that it is a good job there are some people, the British amongst them thank God, that are prepared to get their hands dirty. Just imagine if everyone had this viewpoint. We would all either be nazi's, communist, living under sharia law, you name it. Anything but living the way WE want to live. 
Have you ever stopped to think that this is not just about us? It's not just about whether London will be attacked. It's about any city being attacked. It has to be stopped, for the sake of EVERYONE. But as ever, the left will trip out the capitulation message. Let everyone else save our bacon.
Do you seriously think us not contributing to an attack on the evil that is IS will save the UK from a terrorist attack? Do you remember 7/7?  10 years later, isn't it about time you woke up and smelled the coffee?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

Sweep said:



			My goodness. All I can think is that it is a good job there are some people, the British amongst them thank God, that are prepared to get their hands dirty. Just imagine if everyone had this viewpoint. We would all either be nazi's, communist, living under sharia law, you name it. Anything but living the way WE want to live. 
Have you ever stopped to think that this is not just about us? It's not just about whether London will be attacked. It's about any city being attacked. It has to be stopped, for the sake of EVERYONE. But as ever, the left will trip out the capitulation message. Let everyone else save our bacon.
Do you seriously think us not contributing to an attack on the evil that is IS will save the UK from a terrorist attack? Do you remember 7/7?  10 years later, isn't it about time you woke up and smelled the coffee?
		
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Get your hands dirty - of course!  But know the size of the hole you are digging!  Of course they have to be stopped.

But we know nothing about what bombing is supposed to achieve other than to disrupt and destroy some Daesh operations in Syria, and as far as I can see all it would do would expose the UK to *greater *risk of the terrorist attack that you say this bombing is designed to prevent - How does it do that?  How?  Tell me! 

All it seems to do is demonstrate that the UK has fancy war machines that can bomb with the best (or worst) of them and give Cameron some form of kudos in the eyes of USA, Russia and France?

I was supportive of bombing until I started thinking and listening about what it was supposed to achieve and how.  And whenever I listen to it's proponents I hear it's justification being given in the context of a parallel and essential diplomatic track and ground forces.  As Michael Fallon said - *bombing by itself will not work* - troops on the ground are essential - and he expects these troops to be of a moderate Syrian government.  But that government does not exist and might never exist.  So what point bombing unless those bombing are then willing to put their *own* troops into the fray on the ground.  And following your argument why would the UK then expect an exemption.


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## hovis (Nov 24, 2015)

It makes me wonder why people think there is an alternative to agressive action.   Isis are not going to sit around a table and negotiate.    They want the world to become a world of Islam.  

If you think we shouldn't invade them and kill them all like animals what do you propose?   And please dont spout this education crap!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

How come we must all share the burden of helping the poor Refugees, but pick and choose who takes the burden for doing something about those that created the refugee crisis.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Bombing and drones only adds fuel to the fire. It acts as a recruitment poster.

The 'must do something' brigade must also be prepared to get blood on their hands and lose many UK troops. 
They will be sucked into a 'conventional' boots on the ground war against a fearless well equipped and trained army.

Choose your fights carefully, this is one I would be inclined to avoid.
		
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And do what? Do you honestly think that we haven't already got troops on the ground, risking their lives for a safer Britain?


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## Sweep (Nov 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Get your hands dirty - of course!  But know the size of the hole you are digging!  Of course they have to be stopped.

But we know nothing about what bombing is supposed to achieve other than to disrupt and destroy some Daesh operations in Syria, and as far as I can see all it would do would expose the UK to *greater *risk of the terrorist attack that you say this bombing is designed to prevent - How does it do that?  How?  Tell me! 

All it seems to do is demonstrate that the UK has fancy war machines that can bomb with the best (or worst) of them and give Cameron some form of kudos in the eyes of USA, Russia and France?

I was supportive of bombing until I started thinking and listening about what it was supposed to achieve and how.  And whenever I listen to it's proponents I hear it's justification being given in the context of a parallel and essential diplomatic track and ground forces.  As Michael Fallon said - *bombing by itself will not work* - troops on the ground are essential - and he expects these troops to be of a moderate Syrian government.  But that government does not exist and might never exist.  So what point bombing unless those bombing are then willing to put their *own* troops into the fray on the ground.  And following your argument why would the UK then expect an exemption.
		
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Nobody said we should just bomb. There has to be a long term solution to the Syrian crisis as well, and others including Libya. If we have to put ground troops in, so be it. It's not me that is seeking a UK exemption. That was you. 
You say they have to be stopped, but with no suggestion on how this can or should be done, other than to leave it to others. Diplomacy usually has a place in conflict resolution. Unfortunately and probably for the first time, there is no place for diplomacy with IS. Think about it. What do they want? They want their own state in an area that straddles Syria and Iraq. Fine. A bit ambitious and would probably not meet with the agreement of many of the locals but there you go. So, how did they go about obtaining their objective? Did they open negotiations? Have public meetings to discuss the issue? Did they even write a letter? No. They just started killing people. Anyone who MIGHT disagree with them, including and indeed mostly, fellow Muslims. They beheaded, crucified, raped, bombed, ethnically cleansed, anything but talk. Anything that would be considered evil by any decent person. And all without doing one single good deed. The ONLY way to deal with these people is to fight them. Cut off the top of the organisation and clear up the lower levels while hoping that the "cause" will wither on the vine. Most terrorist "causes" have done just that.
Lets be clear. They want to kill you and your family. They want to kill us all. They will unless and until we kill them. They hate you and everything you stand for. Your freedom, your religion (even if you don't have one, because they hate that too), the fact that you think women should be educated. Everything.
This has nothing to do with fancy war machines (I am not sure if we have any anymore) and I don't think Cameron would make the same colossal mistake as Blair in going to war to cosy up to the Americans. This is about protecting the citizens of civilised and free nations. All of them. And there is nothing wrong with fighting back against evil people who kill innocent people in cold blood. Sometimes you have to fight to win peace and this is one of those times. It's time to stand up and be counted.


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## hovis (Nov 24, 2015)

https://youtu.be/6xRKezjOrVc

I'd like to buy this guy a pint


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 24, 2015)

hovis said:



https://youtu.be/6xRKezjOrVc

I'd like to buy this guy a pint
		
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Ditto, but he will have the animal rights people on him with talk like that


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

There is no negotiating to be done with ISIS, they want violence and only understand violence so lets give them it and give them it big. They are a curse on humanity as we know it or used to know it and need dealt with.

As for all you keyboard politicians, there is an old phrase I've heard recently - you either take a dump or get off the toilet, Britain needs to do this and stand with the rest of the powers of the world in confronting this cancer of society and let people sleep safe in their beds at night knowing those we pay taxes to look after us have our backs.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

hovis said:



			It makes me wonder why people think there is an alternative to agressive action.   Isis are not going to sit around a table and negotiate.    They want the world to become a world of Islam.  

If you think we shouldn't invade them and kill them all like animals what do you propose?   And please dont spout this education crap!
		
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I am not saying that there should not be any military intervention and force to stop them.  I'm talking about UK involvement in bombing air strikes as things stand today.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			How come we must all share the burden of helping the poor Refugees, but pick and choose who takes the burden for doing something about those that created the refugee crisis.
		
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Many here in the UK would have Syrian refugees sent back to Syria to fight Daesh - where there would be a high risk of us killing them (by mistake) with our bombs - that's the absurdity of the situation and some folks thinking.  Of course I forgot - they want to come here to fleece us by taking advantage of our welfare system.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			There is no negotiating to be done with ISIS, they want violence and only understand violence so lets give them it and give them it big. They are a curse on humanity as we know it or used to know it and need dealt with.

As for all you keyboard politicians, there is an old phrase I've heard recently - you either take a dump or get off the toilet, Britain needs to do this and stand with the rest of the powers of the world in confronting this cancer of society and let people sleep safe in their beds at night knowing those we pay taxes to look after us have our backs.
		
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Where's the rest of the powers of the world then (are we really a power?).  And I'm still not clear how bombing Syria will reduce the risk of terrorist attack on the UK and not simply anger and radicalise more here in the UK and increase the risk.


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

All those advocating a war have very short memories. A response is required, but it must be a targeted measured response, we tried invasion and regime  change before. That didn't exactly pan out  

Also bombing isn't targeted, it doesn't discriminate. What about the inevitable civilian casualties?


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## hovis (Nov 24, 2015)

What response do you suggest?


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Where's the rest of the powers of the world then (are we really a power?).  And I'm still not clear how bombing Syria will reduce the risk of terrorist attack on the UK and not simply anger and radicalise more here in the UK and increase the risk.
		
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G20 are the powers in the World, we are a G20 nation therefore looked on as a power.

As for bombing Syria, in reality we aren't bombing Syria we are bombing key ISIS locations which just happen to be in Syria. There is a big difference.

Instead of giving saying you can't see what good it will do, why don't YOU offer your solution to curing the world of these radicalists.


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			All those advocating a war have very short memories. A response is required, but it must be a targeted measured response, we tried invasion and regime  change before. That didn't exactly pan out  

Also bombing isn't targeted, it doesn't discriminate. *What about the inevitable civilian casualties?*

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If they are in ISIS controlled strongholds then they are collateral damage.


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			If they are in ISIS controlled strongholds then they are collateral damage.
		
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nice 'collateral damage' you sound like Donald Rumsfeld. 

You'd be happy if kids were killed in your name?


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			nice 'collateral damage' you sound like Donald Rumsfeld. 

You'd be happy if kids were killed in your name?
		
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My kids dont support terrorists who are undermining the freedom of the world WE ALL live in.


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

hovis said:



			What response do you suggest?
		
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it's not easy, no one says it is. There has to be a raft of measures taken, one of which includes military action. There will be inevitable compromise with the Russians, Assad & the Iranians. It won't taste very nice 

Just bombing them with cruise missiles and (un)smart bombs will only at best defer the problem.


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			My kids dont support terrorists who are undermining the freedom of the world WE ALL live in.
		
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that is you Donald  

You think that everyone living in Mosul is part of IS, ISIL ????


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			that is you Donald  

You think that everyone living in Mosul is part of IS, ISIL ????
		
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Was everyone in the Twin Towers a Christian?
Abhor the killing of innocents in any circumstance and were possible every attempt should be made to reduce or remove the risk, but what else do these animals understand, maybe it's time we used their rules against them.


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			that is you Donald  

You think that everyone living in Mosul is part of IS, ISIL ????
		
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No, was everyone attacked in Paris last week anti Islam?


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Was everyone in the Twin Towers a Christian?
Abhor the killing of innocents in any circumstance and were possible every attempt should be made to reduce or remove the risk, but what else do these animals understand, maybe it's time we used their rules against them.
		
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Val said:



			No, was everyone attacked in Paris last week anti Islam?
		
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 I don't imagine any were 

I don't see the logic in your argument. How does the above mean that innocent children should be bombed, just because of geography?

You'd avenge the murder of innocents in Paris by Killing innocents in Iraq and Syria??


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			I don't imagine any were 

I don't see the logic in your argument. How does the above mean that innocent children should be bombed, just because of geography?

You'd avenge the murder of innocents in Paris by Killing innocents in Iraq and Syria??
		
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No one is bombing innocents.

What is your solution? You can't talk to those who can't be spoken to and if you do nothing you can stand and watch the carnage?


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 24, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Was everyone in the Twin Towers a Christian?
Abhor the killing of innocents in any circumstance and were possible every attempt should be made to reduce or remove the risk, but what else do these animals understand, *maybe it's time we used their rules against them*.
		
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Yup, what can possibly go wrong with humanity reducing itself to the lowest common denominator and performing all sorts of atrocities to teach someone a lesson. May be we can then have a 'who can perform the worst atrocity' international It's a Knockout competition?


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			No one is bombing innocents.

What is your solution? You can't talk to those who can't be spoken to and if you do nothing you can stand and watch the carnage?
		
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http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...ng-isis-in-syria-liveshot-paton-walsh-wrn.cnn

it's ok because it collateral remember.

My solution, the only solution involves getting dirty, not pressing a button from 100k away, but no one has the stomach for that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

Is there any alternatives to military action ?


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...ng-isis-in-syria-liveshot-paton-walsh-wrn.cnn

it's ok because it collateral remember.

My solution, the only solution involves getting dirty, not pressing a button from 100k away, but no one has the stomach for that.
		
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By that I assume boots on the ground face to face?


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			By that I assume boots on the ground face to face?
		
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maybe not us, as I don't think we could manage the job, if there was every a need for a coalition like gulf war 1 it's now. 

They problem being that, we can't Govern, we have shown that, and the current set up in Iraq & Syria isn't fit for purpose. 

Iraq has been a vacuum since the US withdrawl and Syria is a proper mess. 

We may have to back & support militarily & economically some pretty unpleasant characters just to rid ourselves of the current threat


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Yup, what can possibly go wrong with humanity reducing itself to the lowest common denominator and performing all sorts of atrocities to teach someone a lesson. May be we can then have a 'who can perform the worst atrocity' international It's a Knockout competition?
		
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Nice highlight of one part, it's not only killings they use is it! You've said atrocities not me, there is also threat or moving populations, imprisonment, removing their human rights and everyone who supports them, I'm not on about suicide attacks,
Enough of the softly softly approach of what we can and can't do.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...ng-isis-in-syria-liveshot-paton-walsh-wrn.cnn

it's ok because it collateral remember.

My solution, the only solution involves getting dirty, not pressing a button from 100k away, but no one has the stomach for that.
		
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We already have Troops on the ground getting dirty, what do you think IS would do if we sent a coalition army in? Line up in trenches against us? No they'd melt in to the background until we'd had enough and come home, then reappear, this is not a conventional warfare, 
Where after Syria/Iraq? Libya or Nigeria or .........


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## FairwayDodger (Nov 24, 2015)

What about Saudi?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			If they are in ISIS controlled strongholds then they are collateral damage.
		
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That's alright then.  No wonder the Syrians are getting out and heading Europe's way.  We'll bomb Daesh targets in Syria and if innocent civilian Syrians get killed or hurt - then tough - they shouldn't have been there.  Ah - but we've sent them back.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Yup, what can possibly go wrong with humanity reducing itself to the lowest common denominator and performing all sorts of atrocities to teach someone a lesson. May be we can then have a 'who can perform the worst atrocity' international It's a Knockout competition?
		
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where is yoghurt and my knitting needles


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That's alright then.  No wonder the Syrians are getting out and heading Europe's way.  We'll bomb Daesh targets in Syria and if innocent civilian Syrians get killed or hurt - then tough - they shouldn't have been there.  Ah - but we've sent them back.
		
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What is your answer to the problem then ? 

Air strikes are always a part of a strategy - they aren't just dropping bombs on random targets - the areas are targeting for a reason.


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			We already have Troops on the ground getting dirty, what do you think IS would do if we sent a coalition army in? Line up in trenches against us? No they'd melt in to the background until we'd had enough and come home, then reappear, this is not a conventional warfare, 
Where after Syria/Iraq? Libya or Nigeria or .........
		
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you're the fella with the military background what do you suggest?


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What is your answer to the problem then ? 

Air strikes are always a part of a strategy - they aren't just dropping bombs on random targets - the areas are targeting for a reason.
		
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we seen in the past what targeted bombing can do 

isn't that an oxymoron anyway. targeted bombing??


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			we seen in the past what targeted bombing can do 

isn't that an oxymoron anyway. targeted bombing??
		
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We have - it's killed some of the highest profile targets in the fight against terror


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We have - it's killed some of the highest profile targets in the fight against terror
		
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But they're political killings rather than strategic ones. They don't seem to have hindered the oppo operationally. 

The fella last week was killed purely for propaganda. I'm sure he deserved to die but at what cost in 'collateral damage'?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			But they're political killings rather than strategic ones. They don't seem to have hindered the oppo operationally. 

The fella last week was killed purely for propaganda. I'm sure he deserved to die but at what cost in 'collateral damage'?
		
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Not all of them are political killings -far from it.

The areas are targeted to weaken the terrorists - not for political reasons but to tackle the war on terror


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			you're the fella with the military background what do you suggest?
		
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Re-read the thread have given my thoughts on it, I'm not the one with the do nothing stance.
Also there are other IS Military Figures being took out with targeted strikes, but just like the newsreels of old it is the ones with the biggest impact on ours and their morale that tend to get the publicity.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2015)

I think the middle east needs a "congress of Vienna".

Would it be peaceful - probably not.
Would it lead to mini-wars - probably.
Could it lead to more despots in charge - maybe.
Would existing regimes like Assad, the Saudis etc be happy to do that - never.

However, with the ethnic and religious melting pot only leading to worse terrorists, ethnic division, despotic nepotism (Libya, Saudi,Iraq) we may have no choice.

Europe, India/Pakistan had to go through it, and maybe with a strong UN (not G20) "managing" it, it might, once and for all let the middle east sort out their own problems instead of Britain, France, US and Russia putting it's selfish twopennorth in.


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## Fish (Nov 24, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think the middle east needs a "congress of Vienna".

Would it be peaceful - probably not.
Would it lead to mini-wars - probably.
Could it lead to more despots in charge - maybe.
Would existing regimes like Assad, the Saudis etc be happy to do that - never.

However, with the ethnic and religious melting pot only leading to worse terrorists, ethnic division, despotic nepotism (Libya, Saudi,Iraq) we may have no choice.

Europe, India/Pakistan had to go through it, *and maybe with a strong UN* (not G20) "managing" it, it might, once and for all let the middle east sort out their own problems instead of Britain, France, US and Russia putting it's selfish twopennorth in.
		
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The problem is the highlighted bit, UN is far from strong.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

Fish said:



			The problem is the highlighted bit, UN is far from strong.
		
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Not just that Robin, but how do we get the terrorists and their followers back to their own Country, the IS ideaology has spread to both Africa and Asia.


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## Old Skier (Nov 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Yup, what can possibly go wrong with humanity reducing itself to the lowest common denominator and performing all sorts of atrocities to teach someone a lesson. May be we can then have a 'who can perform the worst atrocity' international It's a Knockout competition?
		
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Not pleasant but one of the most successful anti terrorist operations carried out was by the British Forces in Malaya. They basically used terror tactics against the terrorist but these days when our politicians demand that we have to wait to be attacked before we can respond we couldn't get away with it.

Seems like we have to play nice while our enemy can do what they must.

Unforunatly war is a dirty business and the public want the dirty business done but the people doing it have to have at least one arm behind their back.


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## Val (Nov 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That's alright then.  No wonder the Syrians are getting out and heading Europe's way.  We'll bomb Daesh targets in Syria and if innocent civilian Syrians get killed or hurt - then tough - they shouldn't have been there.  Ah - but we've sent them back.
		
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I'll try a second time with you. What would you do?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			I'll try a second time with you. What would you do?
		
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I'm not sure if you will get an answer - the question has been asked a number of time by a number of people and so far it's silence


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## Fish (Nov 24, 2015)

Val said:



			I'll try a second time with you. What would you do?
		
Click to expand...

Knit them a jumper for Christmas


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## User20205 (Nov 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm not sure if you will get an answer - the question has been asked a number of time by a number of people and so far it's silence
		
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Do you think that a terrorist threat will be removed by bombing targeted or otherwise? 

Ethan made a point about learning from history, it seems to have been largely ignored. Surely the last 15 years has shown; you can't achieve an end goal by bombing alone, this infact is a recruitment poster for home grown Islamic terrorists. You can't enter into a middle eastern conflict without a succession plan. I don't think we have one & that's why we are in the position we're in. 

I've not issue with taking the fight to Isis. It's 'collateral damage' I've an issue with, that and the lack of an end game


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			Do you think that a terrorist threat will be removed by bombing targeted or otherwise? 

Ethan made a point about learning from history, it seems to have been largely ignored. Surely the last 15 years has shown; you can't achieve an end goal by bombing alone, this infact is a recruitment poster for home grown Islamic terrorists. You can't enter into a middle eastern conflict without a succession plan. I don't think we have one & that's why we are in the position we're in. 

I've not issue with taking the fight to Isis. It's 'collateral damage' I've an issue with, that and the lack of an end game 

Click to expand...

Bombing is all part of the strategy - not the sole threat 

Reducing the training camps , taking out leaders and influential terrorists , destroying weapon dumps - all tactical targets that hurt the terrorists.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2015)

therod said:



			Do you think that a terrorist threat will be removed by bombing targeted or otherwise? 

Ethan made a point about learning from history, it seems to have been largely ignored. Surely the last 15 years has shown; you can't achieve an end goal by bombing alone, this infact is a recruitment poster for home grown Islamic terrorists. You can't enter into a middle eastern conflict without a succession plan. I don't think we have one & that's why we are in the position we're in. 

I've not issue with taking the fight to Isis. It's 'collateral damage' I've an issue with, that and the lack of an end game 

Click to expand...

And like was answered to Ethan and not ignored, it's a fair point and hindsight is a wonderful thing and if the problems with IS was starting tomorrow we could do things differently, but we can't they are here in Europe and we are involved over there, so the question Ethan failed to answer and the one being asked is, given the situation we find ourselves in today, what can we do? and for me the one important thing we definitely can't do is to ease up on IS and back off because as sure as eggs are eggs that will be seen as weakness and they will benefit from it.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 24, 2015)

Fish said:



			The problem is the highlighted bit, UN is far from strong.
		
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Correct, maybe they need to talk over being the world's police force from America, couldn't do any worse.

5 million troops from Russia, USA, China,Japan, UK,France, Germany,Brazil, India, Pakistan, Argentina, Spain, Italy, Saudi, Iran, Australia, Canada, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Africa, Nigeria etc


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## netrghjhw (Nov 26, 2015)

Yes..you are surely right


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## delc (Nov 26, 2015)

The theory behind the Coalition invasion of Iraq was to remove a dictator and then install a friendly democratically elected government. Did this theory work? Not really, because it was seen by the locals as yet another Western intervention in their affairs and led to the mess we have now, and to the rise of the extremist Islamic State. A far worse problem than Saddam Hussain!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 26, 2015)

Lot's of good stuff from Cameron on seeking parliament approval for bombing Syria, and that I can understand and go with.  But I didn't hear anything from him that explained why our involvement in bombing will make us here in the UK safer - I just didn't hear him make the connection and I don't know what it is.  

Lots of good stuff about UK playing it's part and all nations are in this together so should take responsibility - and I get that - but if you base your argument for us getting involved in bombing on making us safer here in the UK, then you have to explain why that actually brings that about - and indeed why it doesn't make us *more *vulnerable.

And I'm also not sure about these 70,000 moderate 'free Syrian' forces on the ground who will do their part for the coalition - without need for any support from our own troops.


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## delc (Nov 26, 2015)

To the best of my knowledge, no war has ever been won by non-nuclear bombing alone, so we should either stay out of it altogether, or put troops on the ground and fight them to the death!


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## Craigg (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			A far worse problem than Saddam Hussain!
		
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Well that would depend on whether you are a Kurd or not really!
You're not related to George Galloway by any chance are you? That's twice you've bigged Saddam Hussein up!


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## delc (Nov 26, 2015)

Craigg said:



			Well that would depend on whether you are a Kurd or not really!
You're not related to George Galloway by any chance are you? That's twice you've bigged Saddam Hussein up!
		
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Was the alleged gassing of the Kurds real, or part of "The Dodgy Dossier"? I was against the invasion of Iraq because I didn't believe that country had anything to do with the 9/11 attack (Bin Laden was a Saudi), and because it would probably stir up more anti-Western terrorist attacks. And boy have I been proved right!


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			Was the alleged gassing of the Kurds real!
		
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You are kidding right.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			Was the *alleged gassing of the Kurds* real, or part of "The Dodgy Dossier"? I was against the invasion of Iraq because I didn believe that country had anything to do with the 9/11 attack (Bin Laden was a Saudi), and because it would probably stir up more anti-Western terrorist attacks. And boy have I been proved right!
		
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The Halabja chemical attack, also known as the Halabja Massacre or Bloody Friday, was a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iranâ€“Iraq War in the Kurdish city of Halabja in Southern Kurdistan. The attack was part of the Al-Anfal campaign in northern Iraq, as well as part of the Iraqi attempt to repel the Iranian Operation Zafar 7. It took place 48 hours after the fall of the town to Iranian army and Kurdish guerrillas.

The attack killed between 3,200 and 5,000 people and injured 7,000 to 10,000 more, most of them civilians. Thousands more died of complications, diseases, and birth defects in the years after the attack. The incident, which has been officially defined as an act of genocide against the Kurdish people in Iraq,was and still remains the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history.

So we waited until 2003 to use this to get Bin Laden, instead of 2 years later during the first Gulf War.

Another sad post from you


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## delc (Nov 26, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			The Halabja chemical attack, also known as the Halabja Massacre or Bloody Friday, was a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iranâ€“Iraq War in the Kurdish city of Halabja in Southern Kurdistan. The attack was part of the Al-Anfal campaign in northern Iraq, as well as part of the Iraqi attempt to repel the Iranian Operation Zafar 7. It took place 48 hours after the fall of the town to Iranian army and Kurdish guerrillas.

The attack killed between 3,200 and 5,000 people and injured 7,000 to 10,000 more, most of them civilians. Thousands more died of complications, diseases, and birth defects in the years after the attack. The incident, which has been officially defined as an act of genocide against the Kurdish people in Iraq,was and still remains the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history.

So we waited until 2003 to use this to get Bin Laden, instead of 2 years later during the first Gulf War.

Another sad post from you
		
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So it didn't happen in 2003, when Bush and Blair decided to invade Iraq!  And we didn't 'get' Bin Laden for another 8 years after that, when he was found in Pakistan, not in Iraq or Afghanistan.


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			So it didn't happen in 2003, when Bush and Blair decided to invade Iraq!  And we didn't 'get' Bin Laden for another 8 years after that, when he was found in Pakistan, not in Iraq or Afghanistan.
		
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You never mentioned a date just the validity of the gas attack. You need to stand in a corner and give yourself a good talking to.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 26, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			You never mentioned a date just the validity of the gas attack. You need to stand in a corner and give yourself a good *slapping*.
		
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Fixed that for you


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			Was the alleged gassing of the Kurds real, or part of "The Dodgy Dossier"? I was against the invasion of Iraq because I didn't believe that country had anything to do with the 9/11 attack (Bin Laden was a Saudi), and because it would probably stir up more anti-Western terrorist attacks. And boy have I been proved right!
		
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And to continue your poor understanding of history you may find that the 9/11 attack had more to do with the invasion of Afganistan.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			So it didn't happen in 2003, when Bush and Blair decided to invade Iraq!  And we didn't 'get' Bin Laden for another 8 years after that, when he was found in Pakistan, not in Iraq or Afghanistan.
		
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We never invaded Iraq to get Bin Laden, it was the supposed weapons etc, you've got the 2 Gulf Wars and Bin Laden mixed up and your post does nothing when it's factually incorrect, Afghan was a totally different reason and there were 2 President Bush's. But hey ho conspiracy theories and incorrect facts make a much better rant!


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 26, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			We never invaded Iraq to get Bin Laden, it was the supposed weapons etc, you've got the 2 Gulf Wars and Bin Laden mixed up and your post does nothing when it's factually incorrect, Afghan was a totally different reason and there were 2 President Bush's. But hey ho conspiracy theories and incorrect facts make a much better rant!
		
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Could this be the start of "DelGate1"?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Could this be the start of "DelGate1"?
		
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DelGate2, 1 is bigger holes&#128515;


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2015)

Old Skier said:



View attachment 17715

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Was that Evening wear in The Cavalry?


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Could this be the start of "DelGate1"?
		
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pauldj42 said:



			DelGate2, 1 is bigger holes&#62979;
		
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Ring NORAD, we're going to DelGate3!!:rofl:


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 26, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Ring NORAD, we're going to DelGate3!!:rofl:
		
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Classic


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Was that Evening wear in The Cavalry?
		
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"Calvary" may all your putts be short.


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)




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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2015)

Old Skier said:



View attachment 17716

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Thought all you Tankies were Cav at heart&#128515;


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Thought all you Tankies were Cav at heart&#62979;
		
Click to expand...


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## delc (Nov 26, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			We never invaded Iraq to get Bin Laden, it was the supposed weapons etc, you've got the 2 Gulf Wars and Bin Laden mixed up and your post does nothing when it's factually incorrect, Afghan was a totally different reason and there were 2 President Bush's. But hey ho conspiracy theories and incorrect facts make a much better rant!
		
Click to expand...

Yes of course I know there were two President Bushes. George Bush Senior was the US President when Iraq invaded Kuwait in about 1990. Then there was a UN mandate to eject the Iraqis from Kuwait, which was Gulf War 1. In 2003 George W Bush ordered an invasion of Iraq, as far as I could see as revenge for 9/11, which was probably nothing to do with Iraq. This time there was no UN mandate, which made this war illegal. I was very much opposed to this war at the time, and wrote letters to my MP and to many newspapers, some of which were published, and also took part in the anti-war march that year. I believe we have a better case for a war against IS, but we should carefully think about the consequences and dealing with the aftermath.


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## Old Skier (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			9/11, which was nothing to do with Iraq.
		
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Nearly there


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			Yes of course I know there were two President Bushes. George Bush Senior was the US President when Iraq invaded Kuwait in about 1990. Then there was a UN mandate to eject the Iraqis from Kuwait, which was Gulf War 1. In 2003 George W Bush ordered an invasion of Iraq, as far as I could see as revenge for 9/11, which was probably nothing to do with Iraq. This time there was no UN mandate, which made this war illegal. I was very much opposed to this war at the time, and wrote letters to my MP and to many newspapers, some of which were published, and also took part in the anti-war march that year. I believe we have a better case for a war against IS, but we should carefully think about the consequences and dealing with the aftermath.
		
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So the mention of Kurds, Bin Laden and Afghan were irrelevant.
Well done on getting your letters published though, makes your point come across even stronger.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 26, 2015)

delc said:



			Yes of course I know there were two President Bushes. George Bush Senior was the US President when Iraq invaded Kuwait in about 1990. Then there was a UN mandate to eject the Iraqis from Kuwait, which was Gulf War 1. In 2003 George W Bush ordered an invasion of Iraq, as far as I could see as revenge for 9/11, which was probably nothing to do with Iraq. This time there was no UN mandate, which made this war illegal. I was very much opposed to this war at the time, and wrote letters to my MP and to many newspapers, some of which were published, and also took part in the anti-war march that year. I believe we have a better case for a war against IS, but we should carefully think about the consequences and dealing with the aftermath.
		
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I bet you had a picture shown in Tony Hart's gallery as well.


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Fixed that for you
		
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Are mods now advocating physical violence &#128563; , if so, I'm in &#128077; &#128514;


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## delc (Nov 27, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			So the mention of Kurds, Bin Laden and Afghan were irrelevant.
Well done on getting your letters published though, makes your point come across even stronger.
		
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Osama Bin Laden was relevant because his al Qaeda group was responsible for the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Centre and other atrocities, used by the US as justification for invading Iraq. The invasion of Afghanistan was justified by the alleged presence of al Qaeda training camps there. As usual for this country, the occupation did not go well, as the British and the Russians had already found out in the past!


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 27, 2015)

Fish said:



			Are mods now advocating physical violence &#128563; , if so, I'm in &#128077; &#128514;
		
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Not at all, that would be against the rules 
However, self flagellation is outside our control 

Stand Down


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2015)

delc said:



			Was the alleged gassing of the Kurds real, or part of "The Dodgy Dossier"? I was against the invasion of Iraq because I didn't believe that country had anything to do with the 9/11 attack (Bin Laden was a Saudi), and because it would probably stir up more anti-Western terrorist attacks. And boy have I been proved right!
		
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First part of the post is shocking - in fact it's disgraceful 

The second part just shows how little you know


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## delc (Nov 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			First part of the post is shocking - in fact it's disgraceful 

The second part just shows how little you know
		
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So hasn't Islamic terrorism not become even more extreme ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2015)

delc said:



			So hasn't Islamic terrorism not become even more extreme ?
		
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Irrelevant to a comment about "alleged" gassing and the suggestion that thousands dying wasn't real 

Then to connect 9/11 to Iraq - clueless


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## delc (Nov 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Irrelevant to a comment about "alleged" gassing and the suggestion that thousands dying wasn't real 

Then to connect 9/11 to Iraq - clueless
		
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So for what other reason did the USA coalition invade Iraq? It was called 'the war against terror'!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2015)

delc said:



			So for what other reason did the USA coalition invade Iraq? It was called 'the war against terror'!
		
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I think it's time you went to google to learn some facts


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## delc (Nov 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it's time you went to google to learn some facts
		
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So was there any evidence that the Iraq government were directly involved in any terrorist attacks against the West? As I have already pointed out, al Qaeda were largely Saudi sponsored. However we couldn't declare war on them as they are allegedly a friendly country (or at least a major trading partner).


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2015)

delc said:



			So was there any evidence that the Iraq government were directly involved in any terrorist attacks against the West? As I have already pointed out, al Qaeda were largely Saudi sponsored. However we couldn't declare war on them as they are allegedly a friendly country (or at least a major trading partner).
		
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Oh dear 

Just to help you out 

Afghan - war on terror , Al Qaeda based in Afghan and Pakistsn 

Iraq - wmd and removing a dictator who murdered thousands of his own people 

Obviously it's all a bit more complicated than that but your statements are factually massively incorrect


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## ger147 (Nov 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh dear 

Just to help you out 

Afghan - war on terror , Al Qaeda based in Afghan and Pakistsn 

Iraq - wmd and removing a dictator who murdered thousands of his own people 

Obviously it's all a bit more complicated than that but your statements are factually massively incorrect
		
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The Bush administration made many coments at the time that the Iraq war was part of the "War on Terror".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_and_U.S._Global_War_on_Terror


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 27, 2015)

ger147 said:



			The Bush administration made many coments at the time that the Iraq war was part of the "War on Terror".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_and_U.S._Global_War_on_Terror

Click to expand...

After sitting through briefing after briefings for years on end both in theatre and in the UK the mission statement was never connected to Al Qaeda or 9/11 - the "War On Terror" phrase has a lot of meanings but Iraq wasn't about 9/11 - Bush may have been looking for revenge for 91 or looking to put his authority onto someone etc


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## Robobum (Nov 27, 2015)

Well this has turned in to a nice point scoring thread.

"I'm more intelligent (able to use google) than you,"

 usual subjects....bore off


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## ger147 (Nov 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			After sitting through briefing after briefings for years on end both in theatre and in the UK the mission statement was never connected to Al Qaeda or 9/11 - the "War On Terror" phrase has a lot of meanings but Iraq wasn't about 9/11 - Bush may have been looking for revenge for 91 or looking to put his authority onto someone etc
		
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Bush and his administration said it was in public many times before and during the Iraq war.  Many statements were made including linking Iraq/Saddam to Al Qaeda etc.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 27, 2015)

ger147 said:



			Bush and his administration said it was in public many times before and during the Iraq war.  Many statements were made including linking Iraq/Saddam to Al Qaeda etc.
		
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That is my recollection as well.
Bush was out of control with a bloodthirsty USA population urging him to 'do something'.
I still think that an awful lot of Iraq2 was all about control of oil reserves.


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## Val (Nov 27, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That is my recollection as well.
Bush was out of control with a bloodthirsty USA population urging him to 'do something'.
I still think that an awful lot of Iraq2 was all about control of oil reserves.
		
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No, it was about removing Saddam as a leader as he was seen as the largest loose cannon dictator in the world given his attack on his own people and the stupidity of his invasion of Kuwait. The sad part about is that now he's gone it's a more unstable place than it was before.

9/11 and the invasion of Iraq are not connected other than it all kicked of around the same time, I believe GWB would have went for Saddam without 9/11 happening.

In relation to the phrase "war on terror". It was a widely used term at the time to describe Iraq and Afghanistan, whether that be in the media only or not im not sure but it was used to describe both.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 27, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Well this has turned in to a nice point scoring thread.

"I'm more intelligent (able to use google) than you,"

 usual subjects....bore off
		
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Spot on mate it seems many on here have missed there calling in life.
It seems some are experts in every field and should be doing better than there lives suggest.


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## user2010 (Nov 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it's time you went to google to learn some facts
		
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Yes absolutely, then he can become a smug, arrogant, pedantic and petty know-it-all like so many on here!


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## delc (Nov 27, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			That is my recollection as well.
Bush was out of control with a bloodthirsty USA population urging him to 'do something'.
I still think that an awful lot of Iraq2 was all about control of oil reserves.
		
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The only country that was in any way under threat from Saddam Hussain's Iraq was Israel (supergun etc), and the US is always very supportive of them. The other issue was oil, which the Iraqi regime was selling directly to France, rather than through the big American Oil Corporations. I would imagine that would be upsetting to an oil man like George W Bush.  I don't know what hold he had over Tony Blair, but I can imagine some form of coercion taking place!


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## Fish (Nov 27, 2015)

Not a course I'd openly admit to be a member of..

http://isisgolfclub.com.au/


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## Fish (Dec 5, 2015)

Not good reading but then not that surprising, I think any attack in the coming days or weeks, which with our threat level being at "severe" and as "highly likely", can't be attached to the decision to bomb into Syria, I'm confident they would commit atrocities over here anyway, but the lefties will obviously point the finger of blame at that decision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35013221


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			Not good reading but then not that surprising, I think any attack in the coming days or weeks, which with our threat level being at "severe" and as "highly likely", can't be attached to the decision to bomb into Syria, I'm confident they would commit atrocities over here anyway, but the lefties will obviously point the finger of blame at that decision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35013221

Click to expand...

Your correct mate, the alert states didn't change after the vote.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 5, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Your correct mate, the alert states didn't change after the vote.
		
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But it didn't stop some tool, celebrating winning the vote, to declare "Britain is now a safer place"...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			But it didn't stop some tool, celebrating winning the vote, to declare "Britain is now a safer place"...
		
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Countries full of tools&#128515;


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## Fish (Dec 5, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			But it didn't stop some tool, celebrating winning the vote, to declare "Britain is now a safer place"...
		
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every bomb that hits the oil that allows them to finance terror, every vehicle which is destroyed that stops them invading and growing, every bomb that pins them down so the Kurds can protect themselves and every bomb that takes out any training camps and terrorists of course makes not only the UK but any country they want to inflict atrocities in safer! 

Nobody should be naive enough to think there aren't already weapons and cells over here already and as such we will unfortunately experience something, but the decision to bomb Syria has no bearing on that, they'd have done it anyway when the time was right, what bombing will hopefully do with targeted strikes is slow down, upset and starve some of the plans to spread their hatred and as such by definition, everywhere will be safer as a consequence, nobody has ever said it will stop it immediately!


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## MegaSteve (Dec 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			every bomb that hits the oil that allows them to finance terror, every vehicle which is destroyed that stops them invading and growing, every bomb that pins them down so the Kurds can protect themselves and every bomb that takes out any training camps and terrorists of course makes not only the UK but any country they want to inflict atrocities in safer! 

Nobody should be naive enough to think there aren't already weapons and cells over here already and as such we will unfortunately experience something, but the decision to bomb Syria has no bearing on that, they'd have done it anyway when the time was right, what bombing will hopefully do with targeted strikes is slow down, upset and starve some of the plans to spread their hatred and as such by definition, everywhere will be safer as a consequence, nobody has ever said it will stop it immediately!
		
Click to expand...


Every bomb, from the west, strengthens the platform the preachers of hate use to radicalise our young folk...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 5, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			Every bomb, from the west, strengthens the platform the preachers of hate use to radicalise our young folk...
		
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Or make them see they are not going to have it all their own way, and with their actions come consequences, it goes both ways.


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## Fish (Dec 5, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			Every bomb, from the west, strengthens the platform the preachers of hate use to radicalise our young folk...
		
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and for every bomb that doesn't fall helps them grow and spread their murderous crusade as they do not recognise any borders and if you don't join or support them when they roll into town, your submitted to a horrendous death, so lets stay out of it shall we, they'll never reach our little island!?


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## MegaSteve (Dec 5, 2015)

Fish said:



			and for every bomb that doesn't fall helps them grow and spread their murderous crusade as they do not recognise any borders and if you don't join or support them when they roll into town, your submitted to a horrendous death, so lets stay out of it shall we, they'll never reach our little island!?
		
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I have no issues with the bombs... Just the need of this little island of ours to always feel it has to take the lead... We should be following the lead of those nearer to the region not doing their 'dirty' work for them...


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2015)

Interesting comment at the gig I was at last night. Apparently 120 people that had bought tickets for the O2 in Islington for Friday didn't attend. I can't believe they were all ill or suddenly had other engagements and so there is a definite shift in public perception of their own safety


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 6, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Or make them see they are not going to have it all their own way, and with their actions come consequences, it goes both ways.
		
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Doesn't matter - they are going to heaven regardless of how successful their 'mission' might be,


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## delc (Dec 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Doesn't matter - they are going to heaven regardless of how successful their 'mission' might be,
		
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Actually, I'm rather hoping that the suicide bombers and Jehadist murderers will go to Islamic Hell and not meet their 72 virgins!  :mmm:


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## pendodave (Dec 6, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting comment at the gig I was at last night. Apparently 120 people that had bought tickets for the O2 in Islington for Friday didn't attend. I can't believe they were all ill or suddenly had other engagements and so there is a definite shift in public perception of their own safety
		
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I was at Hammersmith for the Weller gig on Friday night. My row of 20odd seats had just me and my wife on it until another pair joined glad way through. 

I was wondering whether that was post Paris nervousness or if they just saw the setlist....


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## MegaSteve (Dec 6, 2015)

Took a walk through Green Park past Buck House and onto T Sq this morning and it was more than full of visitors/tourists...

Wouldn't expect anything else...


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			Took a walk through Green Park past Buck House and onto T Sq this morning and it was more than full of visitors/tourists...

Wouldn't expect anything else...
		
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To be fair, there were plenty of French and German fans at the gig last night and many nationalities in the Hilton Islington, including Americans, usually very nervous about travelling when there's any threat. It seems from speaking with Fish after, other bands had seen a drop in the last week of attendance vs acutal sales, especially in London


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm not a fan of U2, I can't stand Bonio and if it's printed by the Daily Mail I'll double check the info even if it's simply the date but this is awesome.....

"They were robbed of their stage three weeks ago and we would like to offer them ours tonight" 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...etal-make-emotional-return-Paris-join-U2.html


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## Grogger (Mar 18, 2016)

Not sure how to post links on here but Salah Abdeslam one of the suspects from the Paris attacks has been caught alive by the Belgian police!!


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## SocketRocket (Mar 18, 2016)

Grogger said:



			Not sure how to post links on here but Salah Abdeslam one of the suspects from the Paris attacks has been caught alive by the Belgian police!!
		
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Problem is that he's like a drop in the ocean now.  Who knows how many of his like have trooped into Europe during the last 12 months.


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## Grogger (Mar 18, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Problem is that he's like a drop in the ocean now.  Who knows how many of his like have trooped into Europe during the last 12 months.
		
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I just hope that he has a miserable existence now and lives in constant fear


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 18, 2016)

Grogger said:



			I just hope that he has a miserable existence now and lives in constant fear
		
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He'll end up imprisoned for life somewhere, no doubt in a nice cell with all mod cons, or claim his civil rights have been infringed if not. This kind of crime does ask the question on whether the death penalty is apt for this sort of crime but is an eye for an eye really right in this day and age?


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## Grogger (Mar 18, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			He'll end up imprisoned for life somewhere, no doubt in a nice cell with all mod cons, or claim his civil rights have been infringed if not. This kind of crime does ask the question on whether the death penalty is apt for this sort of crime but is an eye for an eye really right in this day and age?
		
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Yeah you're probably right homer but it would be nice to think that he'll suffer. 

I'm not one for the death penalty I just don't see how it's still about in this day and age. Death would be to good an escape for people like him and he'd become a martyr which is exactly what he'd want I'd imagine


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 18, 2016)

Grogger said:



			Yeah you're probably right homer but it would be nice to think that he'll suffer. 

I'm not one for the death penalty I just don't see how it's still about in this day and age. Death would be to good an escape for people like him and he'd become a martyr which is exactly what he'd want I'd imagine
		
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The martyr point is well made and would certainly give the next generation of ISIS recruit a hero to look up to. Best to lock him up and leave him to rot


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## SocketRocket (Mar 18, 2016)

A close encounter with the rough end of a pineapple comes to mind.


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## snell (Mar 18, 2016)

Grogger said:



			Not sure how to post links on here but Salah Abdeslam one of the suspects from the Paris attacks has been caught alive by the Belgian police!!
		
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Great news, he was the only one of the 8 left alive....so great that they've got him, alive as well...result!


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## Grogger (Mar 18, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			A close encounter with the rough end of a pineapple comes to mind.
		
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 :thup:


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## nailed it (Mar 18, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Problem is that he's like a drop in the ocean now.  Who knows how many of his like have trooped into Europe during the last 12 months.
		
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.........and will do in the next 12 months.


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