# For those who do aimpoint



## 3565 (May 9, 2014)

Aimpoint, I did the Express read with Jamie Donaldson today. Pretty simple to use, no charts needed and all done by feeling the slope and pressure through your feet. Reads can now be done for putts under 5ft with slope, a read for putts of up to 20ft and another for 20ft and above.  If you've done the beginners chart course then The Express will only add to your knowledge. 

Note, a lot of disbelievers on this forum about this system, and I'm not going to get into any arguments or how it's done. This post is solely aimed for those who do Aimpoint for them to ponder.


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## virtuocity (May 9, 2014)

I've only done Express and can't imagine ever needing to do Midpoint.


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## garyinderry (May 9, 2014)

I don't use aim point but have started getting a feeling for the slope using my feet.   usually makes me give it a bit more break if I stand over the putt and feel quite a bit of slope there.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2014)

Are you at Sawgrass ? Isnt Donaldson playing in the Players


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## upsidedown (May 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you at Sawgrass ? Isnt Donaldson playing in the Players 

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Time travel ? Could have sworn he was being interviewed by Miss Stirk there.


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## brendy (May 9, 2014)

Were you fitted for your two fingers?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2014)

brendy said:



			Were you fitted for your two fingers?
		
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:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (May 9, 2014)

3565 said:



			Aimpoint, I did the Express read with Jamie Donaldson today. Pretty simple to use, no charts needed and all done by feeling the slope and pressure through your feet. Reads can now be done for putts under 5ft with slope, a read for putts of up to 20ft and another for 20ft and above.  If you've done the beginners chart course then The Express will only add to your knowledge. 

Note, a lot of disbelievers on this forum about this system, and I'm not going to get into any arguments or how it's done. This post is solely aimed for those who do Aimpoint for them to ponder.
		
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I'm tempted by it as a lot of Aimpointers are saying express is more accurate. Is it still on the 1-4 scale as per the chart to measure slop? What is the extra bit about pressure?


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## JohnnyLarge (May 9, 2014)

3565 said:



			Aimpoint, I did the Express read with Jamie Donaldson today. Pretty simple to use, no charts needed and all done by feeling the slope and pressure through your feet. Reads can now be done for putts under 5ft with slope, a read for putts of up to 20ft and another for 20ft and above.  If you've done the beginners chart course then The Express will only add to your knowledge. 

Note, a lot of disbelievers on this forum about this system, and I'm not going to get into any arguments or how it's done. This post is solely aimed for those who do Aimpoint for them to ponder.
		
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Hi There,
You obviously visited Tapton Park Golf Club in Chesterfield today. I hope you enjoyed your visit. I'm the bald chap from behind the bar.

:cheers:


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## 3565 (May 9, 2014)

JohnnyLarge said:



			Hi There,
You obviously visited Tapton Park Golf Club in Chesterfield today. I hope you enjoyed your visit. I'm the bald chap from behind the bar.

:cheers:
		
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And thank you for the nice bacon bun/bap/cob pending where your from and cup of tea. :thup:


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## virtuocity (May 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm tempted by it as a lot of Aimpointers are saying express is more accurate. Is it still on the 1-4 scale as per the chart to measure slop? What is the extra bit about pressure?
		
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I was taught to measure slope with my feet on a 1-5 scale, then use fingers to measure starting point.

Don't know about 'pressure'.  What do you mean?


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## 3565 (May 9, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			I was taught to measure slope with my feet on a 1-5 scale, then use fingers to measure starting point.

Don't know about 'pressure'.  What do you mean?
		
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just the amount of weight on either foot, someone said he felt more pressure in one foot more then the other. So I put weight/pressure in my OP.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2014)

So what was Donaldson part in this ? When he is at the players ?


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## ADB (May 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So what was Donaldson part in this ? When he is at the players ?
		
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www.jamiedonaldson.co.uk


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2014)

snaphookwedge said:



www.jamiedonaldson.co.uk

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Cheers :thup:

Was a bit confused


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## c1973 (May 9, 2014)

snaphookwedge said:



www.jamiedonaldson.co.uk

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Â£100 per hour and a minimum 2 hour first lesson!!! Seems a bit steep, the club pro is only Â£15.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Â£100 per hour and a minimum 2 hour first lesson!!! Seems a bit steep, the club pro is only Â£15.
		
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Â£200 quid first lesson !!!!


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## richart (May 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£200 quid first lesson !!!!
		
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 Â£300 if you are a European Tour Pro. I imagine they are all flocking for lessons. For that sort of money it must be good.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2014)

richart said:



			Â£300 if you are a European Tour Pro. I imagine they are all flocking for lessons. For that sort of money it must be good.:thup:
		
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Who does he coach ? 

Can see a link to Becky Brewerton ? Any ET or PGA tour players ?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 9, 2014)

3565 said:



			Seems a bit ................. cheap!!
		
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Or good value :thup:

But will he be dismissed because he is "cheap"


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## 3565 (May 9, 2014)

3565 said:



			Aimpoint, I did the Express read with Jamie Donaldson today. Pretty simple to use, no charts needed and all done by feeling the slope and pressure through your feet. Reads can now be done for putts under 5ft with slope, a read for putts of up to 20ft and another for 20ft and above.  If you've done the beginners chart course then The Express will only add to your knowledge. 

Note, a lot of disbelievers on this forum about this system, and *I'm not going to get into any arguments or how it's done. This post is solely aimed for those who do Aimpoint for them to ponder.*

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*
*
Re read.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			[/B]
Re read.
		
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Yet you can comment on the other persons pro being "cheap"  ? strange


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## el marko (May 10, 2014)

My personal issue with Aimpoint is that i could know the exact line everytime, but first i have to be able to start the ball on that line and hit the correct weight.


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

Mark Sweeney
May 4 at 10:16am
Congrats to Coach-jamie Donaldson students Felipe Aguilar and Anders Hansen on an incredible 1st and 2nd finish on the European Tour. Aguilar posting a final round 62 to finish one ahead of Hansen. 



Mark Sweeney
May 5 at 2:23am
Congrats to our first LPGA AimPointer Stacy Lewis on her runaway win today. This is her 9th win since learning AimPoint and moves her up to World #2 ranking. 





Mark Sweeney
May 5 at 2:25am
Congrats also to JB Holmes and AimPoint caddie Brandon Parsons on a great win!


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet you can comment on the other persons pro being "cheap"  ? strange 

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Deleted


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## HawkeyeMS (May 10, 2014)

Feeling slope with your feet is something I once heard\read from Faldo to establish subtle breaks. He said to walk next to the line of your putt and feel the slope with your feet. It's something I do if I'm not sure. Whether I could convert that to different pressures in my feet for the amount of break I don't know but I guess the principle is the same.


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## CMAC (May 10, 2014)

I used to use my feet to gauge slope, but I find it more accurate to use more of my body and roll down, the faster I roll the steeper the slope. Never fails!


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Feeling slope with your feet is something I once heard\read from Faldo to establish subtle breaks. He said to walk next to the line of your putt and feel the slope with your feet. It's something I do if I'm not sure. Whether I could convert that to different pressures in my feet for the amount of break I don't know but I guess the principle is the same.
		
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TBH, your half way there, and it's not that hard to determine the amount.


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Deleted
		
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 a bit cheap you say. Why have a wee dig at someone posting up the aimpoint pricing? Surely you should be defending the value for money?


Anyway, he's actually extremely good value for money, usually gives you a bit longer than your lesson time and will have 'a look' if he spots you on the range..........not cheap!!!..........as you put it.  Oh, and he shows you how to read a green without the need to have you hopping around waggling your fingers in the air like 'big chief slow up play' either!  Tell me, does it start raining after you read a green? 

Â£200 to tell folk you can feel a slope with your feet? :rofl::rofl::rofl: By God, he saw you lot coming, I had that figured out when I learned how to walk!


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## CMAC (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Mark Sweeney
May 4 at 10:16am
Congrats to Coach-jamie Donaldson students Felipe Aguilar and Anders Hansen on an incredible 1st and 2nd finish on the European Tour. Aguilar posting a final round 62 to finish one ahead of Hansen. 



Mark Sweeney
May 5 at 2:23am
Congrats to our first LPGA AimPointer Stacy Lewis on her runaway win today. This is her 9th win since learning AimPoint and moves her up to World #2 ranking. 





Mark Sweeney
May 5 at 2:25am
Congrats also to JB Holmes and AimPoint caddie Brandon Parsons on a great win!
		
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...and the point is?

would it help to post up the hundreds of winners both male and female who don't use maimpoint? that would be pointless also I think:mmm:


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			a bit cheap you say. Why have a wee dig at someone posting up the aimpoint pricing? Surely you should be defending the value for money?


*Anyway, he's actually extremely good value for money, usually gives you a bit longer than your lesson time and will have 'a look' if he spots you on the range..........not cheap!!!..........as you put it.  Oh, and he shows you how to read a green without the need to have you hopping around waggling your fingers in the air like 'big chief slow up play' either!  Tell me, does it start raining after you read a green? *
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif][h=5]

[/h]


[/FONT]


Â£200 to tell folk you can feel a slope with your feet? :rofl::rofl::rofl: By God, he saw you lot coming, I had that figured out when I learned how to walk!
		
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Sitting on the river bank with my fishing rod


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Sitting on the river bank with my fishing rod 

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Not fishing, not my style. 
Like your 'cheap' comment I am just being utterly dismissive of yet another method of fleecing weak minded individuals (generally speaking) from their hard earned. 

Edit: I note there is no defence of the price point. Do you think Â£200 represents good value for money, honestly?


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Not fishing, not my style. 
Like your 'cheap' comment I am just being utterly dismissive of yet another method of fleecing weak minded individuals (generally speaking) from their hard earned. 

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Did the float disappear under the water there.........


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Did the float disappear under the water there.........
		
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Nope.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 10, 2014)

Handbags away ladies, let's keep on track please
Thank you


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Handbags away ladies, let's keep on track please
Thank you
		
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But she started it.  

Handbag duly lifted, lipstick in bag and bag away.


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## User20205 (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Not fishing, not my style. 
Like your 'cheap' comment I am just being utterly dismissive of yet another method of fleecing weak minded individuals (generally speaking) from their hard earned. 

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We've done this mate, golf is full of fads. I had a look at aimpoint when it was first mentioned on here. To me it seems like a chargeable way of telling golfers to carry on doing what they are doing.....but with a chart. If people want to spend their hard earned on it,
fair enough.

I have 2 thoughts though. If it doesn't contribute to slow play, why is there a need for an express version??

Also for me it lost a bit of credibility when it was mentioned Adam Scott used it when putting well, but when he was putting poorly it had nothing to do with aimpoint


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Aimpoint, I did the Express read with Jamie Donaldson today. Pretty simple to use, no charts needed and all done by feeling the slope and pressure through your feet. Reads can now be done for putts under 5ft with slope, a read for putts of up to 20ft and another for 20ft and above.  If you've done the beginners chart course then The Express will only add to your knowledge. 

Note, a lot of disbelievers on this forum about this system, and I'm not going to get into any arguments or how it's done. This post is solely aimed for those who do Aimpoint for them to ponder.
		
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Nice one. How much did you pay to learn to do what I've been doing for free since I started playing golf?


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## Hobbit (May 10, 2014)

I've not used it but recognise some of the ideas, and in some cases already use those techniques. Similar to new golf thinking, there are techniques that are already in use, just rebranded.

But a rhetorical question; if people are willing to spend Â£200 on a new driver or putter that might shave a few shots off your score, why aren't people willing to spend the same on a new technique?


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## virtuocity (May 10, 2014)

I only paid Â£40 for my lesson.  Money well spent on the Express read and has transformed my putting.

Aimpoint is a SIMPLE and SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND system of MEASUREMENT.  

If you are good at reading slope- you don't need Aimpoint.

If you often miss high and low but with a good pace then Aimpoint might be able to help.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that a piece of golf instruction with it's merits based on physics has packaged itself under a brand and has felt a backlash from those who would not dare attempt to understand the 'new' before defending the 'old'.  

And you know what?  I get the dubiety and unfounded criticism- I really do.  Those who have not done the course see handicap hackers walking about the greens with a chart in their back pocket or straddling their golf ball and putting their fingers up to the hole.  Looks weird and even worse- 6 foot putts are still missed.  

I suppose my main disappointment lies in the fact that there is still a HUGE element of golfers and instructors happy to peddle the "That looks stupid / expensive" or "I've been putting fine for 40 years" or "just another gimmick" lines.  

I, on the other hand, believe that embracing new ideas and change in golf instruction can only be a good thing for the game.


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

therod said:



			We've done this mate, golf is full of fads. I had a look at aimpoint when it was first mentioned on here. To me it seems like a chargeable way of telling golfers to carry on doing what they are doing.....but with a chart. If people want to spend their hard earned on it,
fair enough.

I have 2 thoughts though. If it doesn't contribute to slow play, why is there a need for an express version??

Also for me it lost a bit of credibility when it was mentioned Adam Scott used it when putting well, but when he was putting poorly it had nothing to do with aimpoint

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Yeah, your right. I just find it amusing that people can deride other folks tried and tested (club pro) methods but woe betide anyone that points out the naivety of them buying magic beans. 

Totally agree with the Adam Scott scenario btw.


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

Here they come............... thick n fast.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			I've not used it but recognise some of the ideas, and in some cases already use those techniques. Similar to new golf thinking, there are techniques that are already in use, just rebranded.

But a rhetorical question; if people are willing to spend Â£200 on a new driver or putter that might shave a few shots off your score, why aren't people willing to spend the same on a new technique?
		
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Brian, I think you have answered your own question when you refer to old ideas being rebranded as 'the next big thing'

Going back to the OP, ever since I started playing I have stood along the line of a putt and felt the slope through my feet. Nobody taught me to do this, it has always seemed the natural thing for me to do. Only regret I have is that I didn't package and sell my idea


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			I only paid Â£40 for my lesson.  Money well spent on the Express read and has transformed my putting.

Aimpoint is a SIMPLE and SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND system of MEASUREMENT.  

If you are good at reading slope- you don't need Aimpoint.

If you often miss high and low but with a good pace then Aimpoint might be able to help.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that a piece of golf instruction with it's merits based on physics has packaged itself under a brand and has felt a backlash *from those who would not dare attempt to understand the 'new' before defending the 'old'*.  

And you know what?  I get the dubiety and unfounded criticism- I really do.  Those who have not done the course see handicap hackers walking about the greens with a chart in their back pocket or straddling their golf ball and putting their fingers up to the hole.  Looks weird and even worse- 6 foot putts are still missed.  

I suppose my main disappointment lies in the fact that there is still a HUGE element of golfers and instructors happy to peddle the "That looks stupid / expensive" or "I've been putting fine for 40 years" or "just another gimmick" lines.  

I, on the other hand, believe that embracing new ideas and change in golf instruction can only be a good thing for the game.
		
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Here we go again, if you disagree with it or point out weaknesses you don't understand it! Well, I do understand it, I just think it is...well, I don't want a warning so I'll leave that bit. 
But I do firmly believe all this aimpoint new thinking nonsense is hocus pocus and only serves to slow up play, but if it works for you go for it.


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## virtuocity (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Here we go again, if you disagree with it or point out weaknesses you don't understand it! Well, I do understand it, I just think it is...well, I don't want a warning so I'll leave that bit. 
But I do firmly believe all this aimpoint new thinking nonsense is hocus pocus and only serves to slow up play, but if it works for you go for it. 

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What are the weaknesses of Aimpoint?

And as for slow play- I bet you that I can read any single-breaking putt from any distance in 7 seconds.  Can you match that?


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Here they come............... thick n fast.
		
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Maybe the majority are correct in their thinking though? Is that a consideration perhaps?


An old saying; 

If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and goes quack then it's a bloody duck!


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## chris661 (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			But I do firmly believe all this aimpoint new thinking nonsense is hocus pocus and only serves to slow up play, but if it works for you go for it. 

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Have you tried it? And by that I mean done a course etc?


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## CMAC (May 10, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			I only paid Â£40 for my lesson.  Money well spent on the Express read and has transformed my putting.

Aimpoint is a SIMPLE and SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND system of MEASUREMENT.  

If you are good at reading slope- you don't need Aimpoint.

If you often miss high and low but with a good pace then Aimpoint might be able to help.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that a piece of golf instruction with it's merits based on physics has packaged itself under a brand and has felt a backlash from those who would not dare attempt to understand *the 'new'* before defending the 'old'.  

And you know what?  I get the dubiety and unfounded criticism- I really do.  Those who have not done the course see handicap hackers walking about the greens with a chart in their back pocket or straddling their golf ball and putting their fingers up to the hole.  Looks weird and even worse- 6 foot putts are still missed.  

I suppose my main disappointment lies in the fact that there is still a HUGE element of golfers and instructors happy to peddle the "That looks stupid / expensive" or "I've been putting fine for 40 years" or "just another gimmick" lines.  

I, on the other hand, believe that *embracing new ideas *and change in golf instruction can only be a good thing for the game.
		
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it's not new though, that's the point!


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			What are the weaknesses of Aimpoint?

And as for slow play- I bet you that I can read any single-breaking putt from any distance in 7 seconds.  Can you match that?
		
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Pretty much, I've usually read the green on my approach to it, like a lot of amateurs do.


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Here we go again, if you disagree with it or point out weaknesses you don't understand it! Well, I do understand it, I just think it is...well, I don't want a warning so I'll leave that bit. 
But I do firmly believe all this aimpoint new thinking nonsense is hocus pocus and only serves to slow up play, but if it works for you go for it. 

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Have you taken the course?


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## virtuocity (May 10, 2014)

CMAC said:



			it's not new though, that's the point!
		
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I haven't yet found the book "How to Putt using Feet and Fingers" which precedes the course I did last year.  As for being 'new'- of course it's not- it's physics!

Anyhoo- I'm bowing out of this thread, but I do so knowing that I can now #makeeverything


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

CMAC said:



			it's not new though, that's the point!
		
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Explain your point?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 10, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			I haven't yet found the book "How to Putt using Feet and Fingers" which precedes the course I did last year.  As for being 'new'- of course it's not- it's physics!

Anyhoo- I'm bowing out of this thread, but I do so knowing that I can now #makeeverything 

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Hope your good scores keep on coming :thup:


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Have you tried it? And by that I mean done a course etc?
		
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Do you need to try something to have a belief or form an opinion? I've read up on it, as I did with new thinking, I've saw people using it and in my experience/opinion from what I have witnessed it slows up play.


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Have you tried it? And by that I mean done a course etc?
		
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c1973 said:



			Do you need to try something to have a belief or form an opinion? I've read up on it, as I did with new thinking, I've saw people using it and in my experience/opinion from what I have witnessed it slows up play.
		
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Do you use a rangefinder or gps?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 10, 2014)

Irrelevant what method is used - still need to apply the correct pace

Played a scratch KO with someone using aimpoint yesterday - they just say it wasn't successful for him or express


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

A couple of questions for the Aimpoint exponents........

1) You need to know the stimp reading so that you can work out the line? How is that affected by say, a bermuda green where you can be putting both into and downgrain on the same putt and the speed can vary quite a bit during the length of the putt?

2) How many courses have you played where someone can actually tell you what the greens are stimping at? I can think of only 2 out of the 300+ that I've played.


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## User20205 (May 10, 2014)

It's probably a good idea that's being milked to the max @Â£200 per hour. Some will go for it, some won't. But the evangelical true believers, like all fundamentalists, are blind to other opinions.

It sounds a bit S&T to me, as in those that use it are looking for a magic bullet. It probably has some worthwhile take home messages, like S&T, but the majority will view with sceptism because if you really strip away all of the packaging, it's nothing new.


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Have you taken the course?
		
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No and I won't, having wasted a fiver on new thinking I'll stick to the proven method of going to a pro.

Anyway, I'm getting dragged into an argument I don't want to be involved in. I only posted originally to comment on the pricing of aimpoint. You slag of my lessons for being cheap and I'll wait on the defence of aimpoints pricing.


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Do you use a rangefinder or gps?
		
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Who's sitting on the bank with the fishing rod now?


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## User20205 (May 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			A couple of questions for the Aimpoint exponents........

1) You need to know the stimp reading so that you can work out the line? How is that affected by say, a bermuda green where you can be putting both into and downgrain on the same putt and the speed can vary quite a bit during the length of the putt?

2) How many courses have you played where someone can actually tell you what the greens are stimping at? I can think of only 2 out of the 300+ that I've played.
		
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I'm always asking in the pro shop what the stimp is gordon, aren't you??

The first thing I do, is get the stimp & the pin positions, then phone my coach and my psychologist. Those stableford comps don't win themselves !:thup:


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



*Do you need to try something to have a belief or form an opinion*? I've read up on it, as I did with new thinking, I've saw people using it and in my experience/opinion from what I have witnessed it slows up play.
		
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If you don't try it, then your belief is unfounded. That goes with anything whether it's trying new equipment or buying a new car, you try, collate the pros n cons, make your mind up and form your opinion. Simple.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			If you don't try it, then your belief is unfounded. That goes with anything whether it's trying new equipment or buying a new car, you try, collate the pros n cons, *make your mind up and form your opinion*. Simple.
		
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Yep.....no arguing with that!


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## chrisd (May 10, 2014)

therod said:



			............      then phone my psychologist
		
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By the time you've finished that conversation it'd be dark!


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## User20205 (May 10, 2014)

chrisd said:



			By the time you've finished that conversation it'd be dark!   

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Just like the inside of my head.....


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Do you need to try something to have a belief or form an opinion? I've read up on it, as I did with new thinking, I've saw people using it and in my experience/opinion from what I have witnessed it slows up play.
		
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I've used it at numerous forum meets. Don't see anyone moaning I ruined their day being so slow using my chart. Slow play is a weak argument. No worse than the guy looking at a putt for ages, and we've all seemed them at our clubs!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm always asking in the pro shop what the stimp is gordon, aren't you??

The first thing I do, is get the stimp & the pin positions, then phone my coach and my psychologist. Those stableford comps don't win themselves !:thup:
		
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First thing you are shown on an Aimpoint course is how to gauge a stimp for yourself using a simple ten footer and the chart


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## User20205 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			If you don't try it, then your belief is unfounded. That goes with anything whether it's trying new equipment or buying a new car, you try, collate the pros n cons, make your mind up and form your opinion. Simple.
		
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Not really mate. When TM launch a new driver that promises me 50 more yards I don't have to buy it to know its nonsense.

Aimpoint may be 'the' thing, but you must admit it lives in a world of other golf marketing jibberish!!


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## User20205 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			First thing you are shown on an Aimpoint course is how to gauge a stimp for yourself using a simple ten footer and the chart
		
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Serious question alert!!!

Do you do that on the practice green?? 

Are all the greens at your club stimping the same???


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've used it at numerous forum meets. Don't see anyone moaning I ruined their day being so slow using my chart. Slow play is a weak argument. No worse than the guy looking at a putt for ages, and we've all seemed them at our clubs!
		
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I don't have any issue with the slow play side of things. I haven't knowingly played with anyone using Aimpoint so I've not been affected by it. The thing that makes me chuckle is that people waste good money paying for this 'product' when in fact everything is there in front of you for free. If you have enough intelligence to take on board what they are 'teaching' you then surely you have enough intelligence to look at a bit of grass and be able to see how much it slopes one way or another and hit the ball in the right direction.


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			If you don't try it, then your belief is unfounded. That goes with anything whether it's trying new equipment or buying a new car, you try, collate the pros n cons, make your mind up and form your opinion. Simple.
		
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Pretty selective about what you reply to aren't you.


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I don't have any issue with the slow play side of things. I haven't knowingly played with anyone using Aimpoint so I've not been affected by it. The thing that makes me chuckle is that people waste good money paying for this 'product' when in fact everything is there in front of you for free. If you have enough intelligence to take on board what they are 'teaching' you then surely you have enough intelligence to look at a bit of grass and be able to see how much it slopes one way or another and hit the ball in the right direction.
		
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Well said.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

therod said:



			Serious question alert!!!

Do you do that on the practice green?? 

Are all the greens at your club stimping the same???
		
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Do it at any putting green I playing at. Most behave the same but if there is a quicker or slower one the pace is going to throw most players as you can't see if it will be faster or slower. Pick your line and trust the speeds to be consistent. At my place they are pretty uniform


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## Liverpoolphil (May 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I don't have any issue with the slow play side of things. I haven't knowingly played with anyone using Aimpoint so I've not been affected by it. The thing that makes me chuckle is that people waste good money paying for this 'product' when in fact everything is there in front of you for free. If you have enough intelligence to take on board what they are 'teaching' you then surely you have enough intelligence to look at a bit of grass and be able to see how much it slopes one way or another and hit the ball in the right direction.
		
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Golf is full of "new" ideas aimed to give people hope that they will find the missing ingredient that will suddenly make them better golfers - it's the same with gadgets etc 

And because there are hundreds of thousands looking to find that ingredient ( it's what I like to call "talent and natural ability" ) they will snap up these ideas and the people roll in the money.


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've used it at numerous forum meets. Don't see anyone moaning I ruined their day being so slow using my chart. Slow play is a weak argument. No worse than the guy looking at a putt for ages, and we've all seemed them at our clubs!
		
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Maybe a forum meet is more relaxed than a medal? Slow play isn't a weak argument, it's one of the biggest complaints in the game. To argue that it's ok because he's slow at reading a putt as well is the weak argument.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Maybe a forum meet is more relaxed than a medal? Slow play isn't a weak argument, it's one of the biggest complaints in the game. To argue that it's ok because he's slow at reading a putt as well is the weak argument.
		
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King of kings was medal!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			King of kings was medal!
		
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It's still a relaxed forum meet though.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			King of kings was medal!
		
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King of kings is a glorified society meet


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## c1973 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			King of kings was medal!
		
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Ok, one medal, you did say meets though, yeah? Oh nearly forgot to show my indignation !  There, that's better.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			The thing that makes me chuckle is that people waste good money paying for this 'product' when in fact everything is there in front of you for free. If you have enough intelligence to take on board what they are 'teaching' you then surely you have enough intelligence to look at a bit of grass and be able to see how much it slopes one way or another and hit the ball in the right direction.
		
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Your points are the same on every Aimpoint thread. You don't like it or see the point.thats fair enough but those of us that do, including pros and good club players, think there is something in it. I would never criticise your approach to golf and would be grateful if you didn't do the same to mine. I like it, I think it helps.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Your points are the same on every Aimpoint thread. You don't like it or see the point.thats fair enough but those of us that do, including pros and good club players, think there is something in it. I would never criticise your approach to golf and would be grateful if you didn't do the same to mine. I like it, I think it helps.
		
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Homer, I have the occasional look at your blog. Every time I do you are bemoaning the 2, 3 or 4 3putts per round that cost you a win/cut/buffer.

Have you thought about asking for your money back from whoever taught you aimpoint?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Homer, I have the occasional look at your blog. Every time I do you are bemoaning the 2, 3 or 4 3putts per round that cost you a win/cut/buffer.

Have you thought about asking for your money back from whoever taught you aimpoint?
		
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Fair point well made but that's a stroke issue (now remedied) and not the problem with my read. The three putts caused by pushing too many 1-2 footers which should and has been a strength. All sorted so check the blog for tales of daring deeds with the short stick :thup::thup: :whoo:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair point well made but that's a stroke issue (now remedied) and not the problem with my read. The three putts caused by pushing too many 1-2 footers which should and has been a strength. All sorted so check the blog for tales of daring deeds with the short stick :thup::thup: :whoo:
		
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Good, glad to hear it. I know how passionate you are about your golf and I don't want to see a fellow golfer struggling. Now get down to single figures!!  :thup:


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Pretty selective about what you reply to aren't you.
		
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Tbh like I said on the OP, it was to inform those who done it and wasn't going to argue about it with those with unfounded opinions like yourself. 

Homer I hope the PM was of help to you.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Tbh like I said on the OP, it was to inform those who done it and wasn't going to argue about it with those with unfounded opinions like yourself. 

Homer I hope the PM was of help to you.
		
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Just seen it thanks. Makes sense and I've emailed Jamie for dates locally


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## CMAC (May 10, 2014)

3565 said:



			Explain your point?
		
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oh ok, well first there is gravity, and ...................hang on, how long have you got?


maybe easier for you to explain your point of how this is so new to the laws physics combined with trial and error:mmm:


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## richart (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fair point well made but that's a stroke issue (now remedied) and not the problem with my read. The three putts caused by pushing too many 1-2 footers which should and has been a strength. All sorted so check the blog for tales of daring deeds with the short stick :thup::thup: :whoo:
		
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 Just did. Last round 39 putts.

I am interested in how you measure green speeds. Only course I have seen a stimp reading at was East Sussex. Obviously you can not test the actual greens, so assume you do it on the practice putting green ? Warning don't try that on my course, the practice green is much slower and not nearly as smooth as the actual ones.

Personally think a lot of amateurs would benefit from a putting lesson more than a course in being able to read a green. Considering it should be the easiest shot in golf, hardly any moving parts, it is amazing the weird and wonderful strokes that are out there. (Mine included)


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2014)

richart said:



			Just did. Last round 39 putts.

Click to expand...

That was last week. Change in address and rolling them in for fun. Medal tomorrow in the rain so we'll see if the work has paid off


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## Hobbit (May 10, 2014)

richart said:



			Personally think a lot of amateurs would benefit from a putting lesson more than a course in being able to read a green. Considering it should be the easiest shot in golf, hardly any moving parts, it is amazing the weird and wonderful strokes that are out there. (Mine included)
		
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I totally agree with this. Irrespective of the odd very strange techniques you'll see, you'll also see some fundimental flaws. Eyes not over the ball, closed/open stance, hands too low etc etc.

I'm a pretty decent putter but I'll occasionally go right back to fundimentals when practicing my putting. With the best will in the world I still regress, and find that I'm not over the ball or stood a little open or both.

but what made me into a decent putter? It wasn't thinking I could go out an buy good putting, it was lots and lots of shear hard graft on the practice green.

By all means go out and have lessons and learn techniques but they ain't worth owt without putting in the graft afterwards.


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## bluewolf (May 10, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			I totally agree with this. Irrespective of the odd very strange techniques you'll see, you'll also see some fundimental flaws. Eyes not over the ball, closed/open stance, hands too low etc etc.

I'm a pretty decent putter but I'll occasionally go right back to fundimentals when practicing my putting. With the best will in the world I still regress, and find that I'm not over the ball or stood a little open or both.

but what made me into a decent putter? It wasn't thinking I could go out an buy good putting, it was lots and lots of shear hard graft on the practice green.

By all means go out and have lessons and learn techniques but they ain't worth owt without putting in the graft afterwards.
		
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Boom... Great post... Time for the Kindergarten to close now!!!

You playing at Moortown tomorrow Brian?


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## chris661 (May 10, 2014)

Are we really going through all of this again? Do other folk not get tired of the same arguments whenever aimpoint is mentioned?


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## chellie (May 10, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are we really going through all of this again? Do other folk not get tired of the same arguments whenever aimpoint is mentioned?
		
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Nope, it's like a stuck record. 

Anne, who uses the look, hit and hope method.


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## BTatHome (May 10, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are we really going through all of this again? Do other folk not get tired of the same arguments whenever aimpoint is mentioned?
		
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It's a bit like a pantomime really.

The vigilante group simply want to save people from spending money on something they already do, similar to the people that insist that nobody over single figures should be using a ProV1 etc

Someone needs to tell Adam Scott etc that they have been fleeced, and are gullible enough to have not seen it !


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## 3565 (May 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Just seen it thanks. Makes sense and I've emailed Jamie for dates locally
		
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Cool. Played Scratch League tonight and used the Express read, I was out of 3 holes, but had 22 putts in 15, holed 3 out of 4 putts from 5ft, holed 6, 9 and 10ft, shaved on high side 9, 12, and 35ft others were 15ft and above to gimme range. So some positive results to go forward.


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The three putts caused by pushing too many 1-2 footers which should and has been a strength.
		
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Don't want to damage prospects in the Medal, but 1-2 Footers should not be described as 'a strength'! They should be a 'never miss'!

If 1-2 footers are 'a strength' then I'd be pretty depressed with the rest of my game - and, while there are parts that need work, there are real strengths.

Aimpoint wouldn't have helped my putting yesterday, but a new fattish grip certainly has - and that was on the spare/experimental. The mid-size on the Betti might be turned into another fatty soon.


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## Hobbit (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are we really going through all of this again? Do other folk not get tired of the same arguments whenever aimpoint is mentioned?
		
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Maybe check the "Join Date," and number of "Posts" by some of the contributors... to some it won't be ground hog day, and they may well have a genuine interest in hearing new to them opinions.


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## guest100718 (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are we really going through all of this again? Do other folk not get tired of the same arguments whenever aimpoint is mentioned?
		
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Wow, golf forum in repeated thread shock........


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## chris661 (May 11, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe check the "Join Date," and number of "Posts" by some of the contributors... to some it won't be ground hog day, and they may well have a genuine interest in hearing new to them opinions.
		
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To the main protagonists it is though...



guest100718 said:



			Wow, golf forum in repeated thread shock........
		
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Wow. Another one line sarcastic reply from you who would have thought it eh?


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## guest100718 (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			To the main protagonists it is though...



Wow. Another one line sarcastic reply from you who would have thought it eh?
		
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Now if that aint the pot/kettle etc....lol


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## Hobbit (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are we really going through all of this again? Do other folk not get tired of the same arguments whenever aimpoint is mentioned?
		
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Hobbit said:



			Maybe check the "Join Date," and number of "Posts" by some of the contributors... to some it won't be ground hog day, and they may well have a genuine interest in hearing new to them opinions.
		
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chris661 said:



			To the main protagonists it is though...
		
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Seriously, that's the best you can come up with to justify your comment? So new contributors shouldn't be party to new to them points of interest? So something that may actually help them with their putting shouldn't be discussed/debated...?

Very, very sad.


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## AmandaJR (May 11, 2014)

Played against a guy today who was an aimpoint zealot. His green reading was pretty good but as has been stated still required getting the pace right and starting the putt on the right line...those factors weren't as good as his reading from what I saw.

I find it interesting, but very expensive on a suck it and see/intrigue basis. Asked my coach if he recommended it (having attended courses) and he said not.


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## chris661 (May 11, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Seriously, that's the best you can come up with to justify your comment? So new contributors shouldn't be party to new to them points of interest? So something that may actually help them with their putting shouldn't be discussed/debated...?

Very, very sad.
		
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Eh? Get a grip of yourself where did I say it shouldn't be discussed I asked if the same people who are and have been banging the same drum regarding this not get fed up with it. How you transfer that to stopping new members asking questions is beyond me but hey whatever floats your boat.


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## chris661 (May 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Now if that aint the pot/kettle etc....lol
		
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Thus proving my point


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are we really going through all of this again? Do other folk not get tired of the same arguments whenever aimpoint is mentioned?
		
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Not sure of your stance on this subject, so I'm not going to assume. The OP was to those who do Aimpoint not to those who don't want anything to do with it, and not a subject for the validity of Aimpoint.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Played against a guy today who was an aimpoint zealot. His green reading was pretty good but as has been stated still required getting the pace right and starting the putt on the right line...those factors weren't as good as his reading from what I saw.

I find it interesting, but very expensive on a suck it and see/intrigue basis. Asked my coach if he recommended it (having attended courses) and he said not.
		
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The pro I play in pro Am's with has attended the course as well

Found it was the same as how he reads greens anyway with judging the slope with his feet. 

Didn't recommended people paying for it when most pros will tell you most of it during a full putting lesson


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## AmandaJR (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The pro I play in pro Am's with has attended the course as well

Found it was the same as how he reads greens anyway with judging the slope with his feet. 

Didn't recommended people paying for it when most pros will tell you most of it during a full putting lesson
		
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I've never done the feel with my feet thing and still not sure it won't slow play and how do you avoid treading on yours or others lines? Did watch him carefully today though to see what I might pick up for nowt


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			I've never done the feel with my feet thing and still not sure it won't slow play and how do you avoid treading on yours or others lines? Did watch him carefully today though to see what I might pick up for nowt 

Click to expand...


No idea how the feet thing works as well

Whenever I'm putting it's the pace that I always look to get sorted first. The line and breaks can be so different all dependant on what pace you are hitting


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## c1973 (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea how the feet thing works as well

Whenever I'm putting it's the pace that I always look to get sorted first. The line and breaks can be so different all dependant on what pace you are hitting
		
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It's all to do with the pressure you feel on our feet when you stand with feet slightly apart. More pressure on one foot indicates the way the slope goes, equal pressure your level and putt should be straight................as far as I can make out anyway.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

c1973 said:



			It's all to do with the pressure you feel on our feet when you stand with feet slightly apart. More pressure on one foot indicates the way the slope goes, equal pressure your level and putt should be straight................as far as I can make out anyway.
		
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Pressure on feet - yeah read about that stuff but would it depend on what socks or shoes people wear 

Not sure a person can tell the difference that much in terms of pressure on feet when standing on inclines that can't be seen by the naked eye


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:





guest100718 said:



			Now if that aint the pot/kettle etc....lol
		
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Thus proving my point 

Click to expand...

And his of course!

:rofl:


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pressure on feet - yeah read about that stuff but would it depend on what socks or shoes people wear 

Not sure a person can tell the difference that much in terms of pressure on feet when standing on inclines that can't be seen by the naked eye
		
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The key part of that is that it's consistent and accurate. Not a mis-read as a consequence of the optical illusion created by the nasty course designer!


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## c1973 (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Pressure on feet - yeah read about that stuff but would it depend on what socks or shoes people wear 

Not sure a person can tell the difference that much in terms of pressure on feet when standing on inclines that can't be seen by the naked eye
		
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Bunions could cause issues for senior aimpointers one would assume. Or shoes that weren't fitted.


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## c1973 (May 11, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			The key part of that is that it's consistent and accurate. Not a mis-read as a consequence of the optical illusion created by the nasty course designer!
		
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Surely that's subliminal, so to speak, you shouldn't need someone to point out if your slightly off balance,no?


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Surely that's subliminal, so to speak, you shouldn't need someone to point out if your slightly off balance,no?
		
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K?


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Played against a guy today who was an aimpoint zealot. His green reading was pretty good but as has been stated still required getting the pace right and starting the putt on the right line...those factors weren't as good as his reading from what I saw.

I find it interesting, but very expensive on a suck it and see/intrigue basis. Asked my coach if he recommended it (having attended courses) and he said not.
		
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Whilst I've said I'm not going to argue about this and I'm still not going to, I will say this, the majority on here (IMO) are missing the whole point about Aimpoint and what it does.  I understand people being doubtful about it, but they are assuming this and that. At least your coach has tried and gave you his point of view. So no point in persuading you to do it as you've already taken advice from your coach like everyone should. But how do you know if 1 coach is better then the other? Other players opinions good or bad, his results with others, or do you take the plunge and try for yourself? Group lessons are cheaper by the way.


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## c1973 (May 11, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			K? 

Click to expand...

Sorry, never really made myself clear there. What I was meaning is, I agree that the pressure could be consistent and accurate as opposed to the 'optical illusion' you mention. My point is, should you really need to pay someone to point this out to you, surely you are aware of how balanced you are (in other words, how much pressure is going through your feet, relatively).

Hope that's a bit clearer.


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## chris661 (May 11, 2014)

3565 said:



			Not sure of your stance on this subject, so I'm not going to assume. The OP was to those who do Aimpoint not to those who don't want anything to do with it, and not a subject for the validity of Aimpoint.
		
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I personally have no real feeling on the subject having never done a course. I can see the benefit of it for folk that struggle on the green what I do have an objection to is folk decryi g something as hocus pocus and never tried it/done the course. If it works for you and you take less putts I fail to see how it slows the game if you are taking less shots.

Ultimately if it doesn't impede me do whatever you want.


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I personally have no real feeling on the subject having never done a course. I can see the benefit of it for folk that struggle on the green what I do have an objection to is folk decryi g something as hocus pocus and never tried it/done the course. If it works for you and you take less putts I fail to see how it slows the game if you are taking less shots.

Ultimately if it doesn't impede me do whatever you want.
		
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thank you for the honest and frank reply and I totally agree with you.


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## c1973 (May 11, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I personally have no real feeling on the subject having never done a course. I can see the benefit of it for folk that struggle on the green what I do have an objection to is folk decryi g something as hocus pocus and never tried it/done the course. If it works for you and you take less putts I fail to see how it slows the game if you are taking less shots.

Ultimately if it doesn't impede me do whatever you want.
		
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What if you are not taking less putts? The practitioner I witnessed was taking an age (maybe just learning it tbf), so he DEFINITELY slowed play down, that sure as hell impeded folks behind.

Anyways, I'm not going to post on these threads anymore, I only posted to comment on the price point originally and then responded when my method of improving was derided as being 'cheap!!!'. I didn't see any mods objecting to that btw. Funny thing is, I can show ACTUAL improvement and don't FEEL it's improving. So who's point is more valid?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

I did play against someone who walked all around the green and up and down every single putt - looked from 4 different angles regardless of length. He took an age over every putt ( his etiquette overall was shocking ) .


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

c1973 said:



			What if you are not taking less putts? The practitioner I witnessed was taking an age (maybe just learning it tbf), so he DEFINITELY slowed play down, that sure as hell impeded folks behind.

Anyways, I'm not going to post on these threads anymore, I only posted to comment on the price point originally and then responded when my method of improving was derided as being 'cheap!!!'. I didn't see any mods objecting to that btw. Funny thing is, I can show ACTUAL improvement and don't FEEL it's improving. So who's point is more valid?
		
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You derided Aimpoint as expensive, and you read that comment as if I'm calling your pro cheap? Â£15 is cheap, compared to some pros who charge a lot more then that. But hey your perception, just like you think Aimpoint is expensive. A couple of Aimpointers on here know how much it costs. 

Good luck on the improvement, just like I had 27 putts today.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

Aimpoint is expensive compared to paying zero :thup:


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

Mmm for someone who wants validation on things, you only read what you want to read like Foxholer says.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

3565 said:



			Mmm for someone who wants validation on things, you only read what you want to read like Foxholer says.
		
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I haven't asked for validation on anything in this thread - I was commenting on your cost remark.

The amount of putts you hit today doesn't change any thinking


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 11, 2014)

3565 said:



			Good luck on the improvement, just like I had 27 putts today.
		
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You really can't go on these sort of stats, if you missed all 18 greens in reg then 27 putts is pretty poor. If you hit all 18 in reg then it's a great stat. Maybe 27 putts is saying you are a great chipper and kept getting the ball close from off the green?

Very difficult to read anything into individual stats.


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I* haven't asked for validation on anything in this thread *- I was commenting on your cost remark.

The amount of putts you hit today *doesn't change any thinking*

Click to expand...

:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

3565 said:



			:rofl:
		
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If you are happy with what you use to read greens then carry on - people will use other methods and won't want to shell out money to be told how to read a green when the methods will no doubt be nothing new.

You appear happy to mention when you have a good round putting - which it appears you are trying to use as proof of aimpoint being successful - what happens when you or another "aim pointer" has a poor putting round ? Is that also down to aimpoint ? You are appearing desperate in your attempts to show the money is worth spending 

I had 28 putts today - reason why - because I got the pace right on the greens and I didn't need to pay someone a good deal of money to tell me that getting the pace right is critical


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## chellie (May 11, 2014)

drive4show said:



			You really can't go on these sort of stats, if you missed all 18 greens in reg then 27 putts is pretty poor. If you hit all 18 in reg then it's a great stat. Maybe 27 putts is saying you are a great chipper and kept getting the ball close from off the green?

Very difficult to read anything into individual stats.
		
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That was my first thought as well.


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## Imurg (May 11, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Played against a guy today who was an aimpoint zealot. His green reading was pretty good but as has been stated still required getting the pace right and starting the putt on the right line...those factors weren't as good as his reading from what I saw..
		
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Here's a question about aimpoint using Amanda's experience above....and this is it having a go at the method.

In Amanda's example Joe Aimpoint uses the method to determine his line - OK I can see that.
But if his pace and initial direction are so poor - how does he know that his reads are correct?
If he reads 3 inches outside right of the cup but his direction is 3 inches outside left, how does he know he's reading the greens accurately?

I guess what I'm saying is that any reading method relies on you bing able to start the ball on that linear the right pace.If any of those 3 elements are lacking you may as well just close your eyes and use The Force...

So in order to be able to use Aimpoint effectively, you have to be a reasonable putter to be able to start the ball on the correct line with the correct pace.
If you're a reasonable putter you should be able to read greens effectively anyway.........

And I'd still love to know how Aimpoint woks with double-break or downhill-then-uphill putts because I rarely get a putt with a single break or single slope....


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you are happy with what you use to read greens then carry on - people will use other methods and won't want to shell out money to be told how to read a green when the methods will no doubt be nothing new.

You appear happy to mention when you have a good round putting - which it appears you are trying to use as proof of aimpoint being successful - what happens when you or another "aim pointer" has a poor putting round ? Is that also down to aimpoint ? You are appearing desperate in your attempts to show the money is worth spending 

I had 28 putts today - reason why - because I got the pace right on the greens and I didn't need to pay someone a good deal of money to tell me that* getting the pace right is critical[*/QUOTE]

dont know if you know this, but to hole a putt there's another factor then just PACE................... You got to aim the bloody thing the right way..........Think that's pretty critical to, don't you? Go on I dare you to agree.............. :rofl:
		
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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you are happy with what you use to read greens then carry on - people will use other methods and won't want to shell out money to be told how to read a green when the methods will no doubt be nothing new.

You appear happy to mention when you have a good round putting - which it appears you are trying to use as proof of aimpoint being successful - what happens when you or another "aim pointer" has a poor putting round ? Is that also down to aimpoint ? You are appearing desperate in your attempts to show the money is worth spending 

I had 28 putts today - reason why - because I got the pace right on the greens and I didn't need to pay someone a good deal of money to tell me that* getting the pace right is critical[*/QUOTE]

dont know if you know this, but to hole a putt there's another factor then just PACE................... You got to aim the bloody thing the right way..........Think that's pretty critical to, don't you? Go on I dare you to agree.............. :rofl:
		
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When did I say it was "just" pace ?


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## 3565 (May 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did I say it was "just" pace ?
		
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:rofl:I "just" knew you wouldn't.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 12, 2014)

One thing that I think needs clarification and has been ignored or missed in this and previous discussion is that although the initial cost may appear excessive to many, it does also give the person a chance to go back at a later date to another session free from further charge. This means if you go, try it and aren't sure you are doing it correctly or struggling with it, there's another chance to get some further help. 

As an aside, I had no three putts yesterday and only 27 putts and not many were as a result of up and downs and chipping close. With the way I was hitting it, getting within range was an issue. Imurg makes a valid point which others have mentioned AND I AGREE WITH, that if you can't set it on the line it makes no odds. I have worked hard on my putting and feel quite comfortable now I've addressed the "push" I had that for the majority I have put it on the right line. My pace is usually good. However, and it isn't just Aimpoint this applies to, you can still make a good read and a good stroke and it doesn't go in. It isn't a fail proof system BUT it is something that gives me more confidence that I have a good understanding on how the break will affect the putt and can make my attempt believing I've given myself the best chance of making it.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

You still have the initial payment to make regardless of how many times you can go back though Homer 

That's still more expensive than paying nothing 

Well done on 27 putts yesterday though - good score then ?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You still have the initial payment to make regardless of how many times you can go back though Homer 

That's still more expensive than paying nothing 

Well done on 27 putts yesterday though - good score then ?
		
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Nett 77 including an 8 on a par 3. Mind you with CSS going up still hit the buffer. Given the strength of the wind I was pleased bar that one disaster. Even New Golf Thinking couldn't stop a string of anglo saxon phrases. Two crap swings sent it OB right both times. Lots of solid putts especially on the back nine but lots of holes playing into the wind coming home made it hard to get up or in my case even close


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

In the weather conditions at the weekend getting into the buffer can certainly be considered a good round


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## dontfancythisputt (May 12, 2014)

I tend to let the tour pros lead my thinking on these unusual teaching/equipment/swing debates.

They will almost certainly have and ear to the ground when it comes to anything that may move them up the leaderboards. 
Take the belly putter issue, when questioned over the subject nearly all admitted to at least having a dabble with the longer putters.

As always there will be elements in any approach that a few will find beneficial and good luck to them,  but when you see half the field at any tour event using a system then that when Iâ€™d really take an interest. Granted the price will have rocketed by then but at least I know the very best are seeing improvements from a system so there must be something worth looking at.

Iâ€™m on the fence with Aimpoint, never been that bad a putter to be honest so have stuck with what I know, I wonâ€™t say id never try it and will admit to giving the belly putter ago for a while.

One thing that I never get though is if feeling the slope through your feet surely that only relates to the section of ground your standing on, what are you meant to do if you have a 20ft putt that breaks 3 times or a putt that doesnâ€™t break evenly across the whole length.

A lot of pin positions I play have a break around the cup, and it I saw someone standing close to the cup on every hole id be having a word as they are almost certainly going to be standing around the line of my next putt should I miss.


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## AmandaJR (May 12, 2014)

I too had 27 putts on Saturday. GIR poor but the wind had a part to play in that. Chipped in twice and plenty of 1 putts but I'd argue my green reading enabled me to chip close/in. Reviewing the round yesterday I do think there is a temptation to vouch for something you've paid a good chunk of money for and the guy I played against seemed to fall into that trap. His argument was "how can you judge when you've not done the course" which is fine but again I'm not paying out Â£100 if I'm not convinced by what I've seen and read so far. Our practice green is always a tad quicker than the course and his first 3 birdie putts were woefully short so can't judge the line! On the 4th he nailed a 12 footer but straight uphill putt so I'd fancy my chances at that. Our 8th is a green I struggle to read and I watched him "feeling" the slope with interest and sensed some doubt. He nailed the putt though and I asked him about it and he said his feet told him one thing and his eyes another so confirmed what I think and that visually it is a tough read (so can see value in the feet helping there). On the 9th he was all over the place tee to green and hit a shocking putt - that green always feeds left to right but it's hard to see and think he didn't take extra time to assess with his feet as he was holding everyone up. On the 12th I didn't see his long birdie putt start as was preparing my chip - he was all excited about how close it was to a birdie BUT it was 18" short! I got up and down for the half  His tee to green play fell apart after that so wasn't easy to judge his putting...

Overall it piques my interest but still didn't persuade me it's worth the cost of a course - even if I can do as many as I like!


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## 3565 (May 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			One thing that I think needs clarification and has been ignored or missed in this and previous discussion is that although the initial cost may appear excessive to many, it does also give the person a chance to go back at a later date to another session free from further charge. This means if you go, try it and aren't sure you are doing it correctly or struggling with it, there's another chance to get some further help. 

As an aside, I had no three putts yesterday and only *27 putts *and not many were as a result of up and downs and chipping close. With the way I was hitting it, getting within range was an issue. Imurg makes a valid point which others have mentioned AND I AGREE WITH, that if you can't set it on the line it makes no odds. I have worked hard on my putting and feel quite comfortable now I've addressed the "push" I had that for the majority I have put it on the right line. My pace is usually good. However, and it isn't just Aimpoint this applies to, you can still make a good read and a good stroke and it doesn't go in. It isn't a fail proof system BUT it is something that gives me more confidence that I have a good understanding on how the break will affect the putt and can make my attempt believing I've given myself the best chance of making it.
		
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Great putting then Homer, although you can't read TOO much into just 27 putts i was told yesterday about my 27, I'm more interested in the scoring zone how many you made and what lengths you holed.


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## MendieGK (May 12, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm always asking in the pro shop what the stimp is gordon, aren't you??

The first thing I do, is get the stimp & the pin positions, then phone my coach and my psychologist. Those stableford comps don't win themselves !:thup:
		
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My Club posts the stimp reading on its website every single morning for both courses - Just saying


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## MendieGK (May 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Your points are the same on every Aimpoint thread. You don't like it or see the point.thats fair enough but those of us that do, including pros and good club players, think there is something in it. I would never criticise your approach to golf and would be grateful if you didn't do the same to mine. I like it, I think it helps.
		
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I havent done the course, but my dad has, and as a Cat1 golfer it has improved his putting, no doubt.

My issue with this thread is that too many people are commenting who havent tried it, so in my view cant really have an opinion with any merit. I only pass an opinion on what i have seen. 

I am assuming that the people commenting negatively aren't tours golfer with the putting ability of Steve Stricker.....so unless you're taking 18putts a round (maximum) then your putting can always be improved - why does it matter if that is to try a new method? 

your OLD method of just reading the line etc clearly isnt as effective as you think otherwise you'd be on tour!!


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## chrisd (May 12, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			My Club posts the stimp reading on its website every single morning for both courses - Just saying
		
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We get our information the more traditional way!

Someone finishing their round mumbles either "them greens were awful today" or "bloomin eck, I don't think I've seen em that quick for months" who needs modern technology when you've got precise information!!


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## richart (May 12, 2014)

chrisd said:



			We get our information the more traditional way!

Someone finishing their round mumbles either "them greens were awful today" or "bloomin eck, I don't think I've seen em that quick for months" who needs modern technology when you've got precise information!!
		
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 I usually get told they are 'too quick for your dodgy stroke'.


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## MendieGK (May 12, 2014)

richart said:



			I usually get told they are 'too quick for your dodgy stroke'.

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At Blackmoor in the summer....doesnt suprise me!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			I havent done the course, but my dad has, and as a Cat1 golfer it has improved his putting, no doubt.

My issue with this thread is that too many people are commenting who havent tried it, so in my view cant really have an opinion with any merit. I only pass an opinion on what i have seen. 

I am assuming that the people commenting negatively aren't tours golfer with the putting ability of Steve Stricker.....so unless you're taking 18putts a round (maximum) then your putting can always be improved - why does it matter if that is to try a new method? 

*your OLD method of just reading the line etc clearly isnt as effective as you think otherwise you'd be on tour!*!
		
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Or perhaps they take 3 shots to get to the green 

You mention Stricker - does he use aimpoint ? Donald ? Snedeker ? 

I have seen someone use Aimpoint so does that mean I can post a valid opinion ? 

This morning I had 21 putts 15 single putts - using the "OLD" method


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## MendieGK (May 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or perhaps they take 3 shots to get to the green 

You mention Stricker - does he use aimpoint ? Donald ? Snedeker ? 

I have seen someone use Aimpoint so does that mean I can post a valid opinion ? 

This morning I had 21 putts 15 single putts - using the "OLD" method
		
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21putts, what you shoot? 55? 

obviously, you can have an opinion but doesnt mean you have to 'mock' other people. I just find it frustating, if someone wants to pay Â£200 to try and improve their game then thats their choice. 

People keep saying its not just about the line, what about pace. the programme assumes you can consistently hit the ball a certain distance past the hole (if you miss).


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## MendieGK (May 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or perhaps they take 3 shots to get to the green 

You mention Stricker - does he use aimpoint ? Donald ? Snedeker ? 

I have seen someone use Aimpoint so does that mean I can post a valid opinion ? 

This morning I had 21 putts 15 single putts - using the "OLD" method
		
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You're clearly not averse to spending money on golf, given the fact every single one of you clubs is a TM - you've been 'sold' on the whole 'loft up' campaign and its already out of date - dont see anyone slagging that off


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			21putts, what you shoot? 55? 

obviously, you can have an opinion but doesnt mean you have to 'mock' other people. I just find it frustating, if someone wants to pay Â£200 to try and improve their game then thats their choice. 

People keep saying its not just about the line, what about pace. the programme assumes you can consistently hit the ball a certain distance past the hole (if you miss).
		
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I had a 68 this morning :thup:

How many amateurs do you know that can hit the putt consistently past the hole the same distance ? I know I certainly can't


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## Robobum (May 12, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			You're clearly not averse to spending money on golf, given the fact every single one of you clubs is a TM - *you've been 'sold' on the whole 'loft up' campaign and its already out of date - dont see anyone slagging that off*

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You can't read many threads then


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## 3565 (May 12, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			You're clearly not averse to spending money on golf, given the fact every single one of you clubs is a TM - you've been 'sold' on the whole 'loft up' campaign and its already out of date - dont see anyone slagging that off
		
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:rofl::thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			You're clearly not averse to spending money on golf, given the fact every single one of you clubs is a TM - you've been 'sold' on the whole 'loft up' campaign and its already out of date - dont see anyone slagging that off
		
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If you haven't seen anyone slag the "loft up" campaign then just do a search on here - loads have 

I wasn't "sold" on anything in regards campaigns - I tested loads of drivers out and picked the best one :thup:

And buying clubs is quite necessary to actually play the game :thup:


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## Green Bay Hacker (May 12, 2014)

Before the 'Adam Scott putting well using Aimpoint at The Masters' thread, I had never even heard of Aimpoint so at least I now roughly know the ins and outs of it.

Personally I would not consider using it due to the cost and having to bother with charts etc but if it helps others and gives them confidence then I can see why they do.


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## CMAC (May 12, 2014)

MendieGK said:



			You're clearly not averse to spending money on golf, given the fact every single one of you clubs is a *TM* - *you've been 'sold' on the whole 'loft up' campaign and its already out of date - dont see anyone slagging that off*

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au contraire mon amis..................almost a weekly occurrence with some on here


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## AmandaJR (May 12, 2014)

Without reading back through the whole thread...I'm not sure it is a case of "slagging off" rather than questioning the validity and efficacy of a rather expensive product. Also said product versus what else is available and potentially just as effective and/or cheaper.

I don't buy into the "you haven't tried it so you can't have an opinion". I haven't tried bungee jumping or fire walking but my opinion is I wouldn't enjoy either...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Without reading back through the whole thread...I'm not sure it is a case of "slagging off" rather than questioning the validity and efficacy of a rather expensive product. Also said product versus what else is available and potentially just as effective and/or cheaper.

I don't buy into the "you haven't tried it so you can't have an opinion". I haven't tried bungee jumping or fire walking but my opinion is I wouldn't enjoy either...
		
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Spot on Amanda - summed up perfectly :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (May 12, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Without reading back through the whole thread...I'm not sure it is a case of "slagging off" rather than questioning the validity and efficacy of a rather expensive product. Also said product versus what else is available and potentially just as effective and/or cheaper.

I don't buy into the "you haven't tried it so you can't have an opinion". I haven't tried bungee jumping or fire walking but my opinion is I wouldn't enjoy either...
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Spot on Amanda - summed up perfectly :thup:
		
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And by the same token, those that have tried and used it feel they are reaping some dividends in terms of improved reads and putting. I think the doubters have put their case as have the believers and haven't seen anything different from either camp that will change opinions of those on either side of the fence. I'd never critiscise anyone on here for their own approach to the game (Timgolfy not withstanding and his opening tee shot validated my opinion) as its such an individualistic game and is the reason I get fiercely protective of my own approaches and pursuit towards my own goal of single figures. I may disagree (often do) but if someone wants to go down that avenue (loft up/down, lessons/not, change of kit, prayer and therapy) then best ot of British and hope like me they reach where they want to go


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## Snelly (May 12, 2014)

Just googled Aimpoint and it looks like a right load of old tripe to me.  

That said, Robert Rock uses it so it must be good......

Â£200?  Insane. Does you get a free magnetic bracelet with the course too?  Or an energy drink? 


I wonder how Sam Snead shot 61 to win his first amateur tournament in 1936 without the aid of this approach?  Seems hard to fathom...


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## 3565 (May 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And by the same token, those that have tried and used it feel they are reaping some dividends in terms of improved reads and putting. I think the doubters have put their case as have the believers and haven't seen anything different from either camp that will change opinions of those on either side of the fence. I'd never critiscise anyone on here for their own approach to the game (Timgolfy not withstanding and his opening tee shot validated my opinion) as its such an individualistic game and is the reason I get fiercely protective of my own approaches and pursuit towards my own goal of single figures. I may disagree (often do) but if someone wants to go down that avenue (loft up/down, lessons/not, change of kit, prayer and therapy) then best ot of British and hope like me they reach where they want to go
		
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to quote someone

Spot on Homer - summed up perfectly. :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And by the same token, those that have tried and used it feel they are reaping some dividends in terms of improved reads and putting. I think the doubters have put their case as have the believers and haven't seen anything different from either camp that will change opinions of those on either side of the fence. I'd never critiscise anyone on here for their own approach to the game (Timgolfy not withstanding and his opening tee shot validated my opinion) as its such an individualistic game and is the reason I get fiercely protective of my own approaches and pursuit towards my own goal of single figures. I may disagree (often do) but if someone wants to go down that avenue (loft up/down, lessons/not, change of kit, prayer and therapy) then best ot of British and hope like me they reach where they want to go
		
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No problems at all with that Homer :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

3565 said:



			to quote someone

Spot on Homer - summed up perfectly. :rofl:
		
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Have you had time to consider a response to Imurg questions ? 



Imurg said:



			Here's a question about aimpoint using Amanda's experience above....and this is it having a go at the method.

In Amanda's example Joe Aimpoint uses the method to determine his line - OK I can see that.
But if his pace and initial direction are so poor - how does he know that his reads are correct?
If he reads 3 inches outside right of the cup but his direction is 3 inches outside left, how does he know he's reading the greens accurately?

I guess what I'm saying is that any reading method relies on you bing able to start the ball on that linear the right pace.If any of those 3 elements are lacking you may as well just close your eyes and use The Force...

So in order to be able to use Aimpoint effectively, you have to be a reasonable putter to be able to start the ball on the correct line with the correct pace.
If you're a reasonable putter you should be able to read greens effectively anyway.........

And I'd still love to know how Aimpoint woks with double-break or downhill-then-uphill putts because I rarely get a putt with a single break or single slope....
		
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Very valid points and question I believe


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## HomerJSimpson (May 12, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Â£200?  Insane. Does you get a free magnetic bracelet with the course too?  Or an energy drink?
		
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Not sure where that figure comes from (and in work so can't go looking, but I only paid Â£90 and as said already have the option to attend another course free of charge as a refresher should choose to do so



Liverpoolphil said:



			Have you had time to consider a response to Imurg questions ? 



Very valid points and question I believe
		
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I agreed with him regarding the point about needing to start it on line although that applies to whatever method you adopt. As for double breakers, the easies thing to do is take two measurements for each slope to see how much it moves. BEFORE anyone says it takes too long, I can do an accurate read inside 10-15 seconds which I'd argue is as quick as someone studying their putt in a traditional method although TBH that is a side issue and not the point in question. A downhill/uphill putt works the same way as you're measuring the angle of the slope so take the mid point for both parts and get a read. There is a more advanced course that the pros and caddies (and open to the public if you really want it) that gives the absolute definitive way to read these sort of putts but at my level, splitting it into sections works as well and I can still get an accurate read.

As I've said, those that use it think its great and reliable. Those that don't have their own preferred method. Each to their own and as a game about getting a white ball in a hole, how that's achieved is immaterial as long as it's done as quickly as possible


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## CMAC (May 12, 2014)

I think this is the aimpoint that most of us associate with the name

http://www.toursticks.com/pages/Tour-Sticks-Putting-Drills-—-Aim-Point.html


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## 3565 (May 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have you had time to consider a response to Imurg questions ? 



Very valid points and question I believe
		
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look you and others don't get it and won't ever get it as it's nothing new. In another Aimpoint post I spent time explaining how it works and you were involved with that as well. i could explain the double breaking putts in how to work it out from the inflection point but by the time you lot read it you'll be shouting SLOW PLAY SLOW PLAY, and any other obstacles you can think of to throw at us. Your clearly not interested in it other then to discredit it and us when ever you can. If that's how you are as a person then ............ 

Just for a change, to see if you HAVE taken any note of us looney Aimpointers, How do we go about getting our break value for a 15 ft putt?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

3565 said:



			look you and others don't get it and won't ever get it as it's nothing new. In another Aimpoint post I spent time explaining how it works and you were involved with that as well. i could explain the double breaking putts in how to work it out from the inflection point but by the time you lot read it you'll be shouting SLOW PLAY SLOW PLAY, and any other obstacles you can think of to throw at us. Your clearly not interested in it other then to discredit it and us when ever you can. If that's how you are as a person then ............ 

Just for a change, to see if you HAVE taken any note of us looney Aimpointers, How do we go about getting our break value for a 15 ft putt?
		
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I'm guessing the answer is no. 

Ok cheers :thup:


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## 3565 (May 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm guessing the answer is no. 

Ok cheers :thup:
		
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:rofl:  Thats cos you not got an E double F in clue.........see ya


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

3565 said:



			:rofl:  Thats cos you not got an E double F in clue.........see ya
		
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No that's because there is zero point in talking to you about it because your instant reaction is to go on the defence and then pretty much the attack against people who possibly have valid questions or concerns or issues with it. 

You were all bright and button tailed and smart when Scott was putting well and used it as an example of aimpoint being great - when he started putting badly - different story then. 

Read what a homer has posted - I may have had arguments with him in the past but his responses are a great deal better than yours in this thread.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

CMAC said:



			I think this is the aimpoint that most of us associate with the name

http://www.toursticks.com/pages/Tour-Sticks-Putting-Drills-—-Aim-Point.html

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Have had a crack doing that - works really well I reckon :thup:


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## 3565 (May 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No that's because there is zero point in talking to you about it because your instant reaction is to go on the defence and then pretty much the attack against people who possibly have valid questions or concerns or issues with it. 

You were all bright and button tailed and smart when Scott was putting well and used it as an example of aimpoint being great - when he started putting badly - different story then. 

Read what a homer has posted - I may have had arguments with him in the past but his responses are a great deal better than yours in this thread.
		
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Thats cos you only read what you want to read and take from it. In past Aimpoint posts I've explained, like someone said do a search and read. When your trying to put a valid point across, you just put obstacles in the way and DONT even say, yes I can see where your coming from with that, it's just your view and your view only. So I'm really wasting my time with you cos your stuck in your own little way of doing things. I didn't need to reply to Imurg as Homer already explained it, again showing you read only what you want to.. 

Scott's down fall in the Honda if you listened to Steve Williams radio interview a few days later was, what you keep harping on about, lack of pace? Is that Aimpoints fault?  No, Aimpoint doesn't swing the club, it was he who swung it, he may of read the putt right but his pace was off. No system can account for that not even the OLD method. You should know that, your not that thick! Or am I missing something, maybe I ought to ask Oliver Ross or James Lyle about that! 
 :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

3565 said:



			Thats cos you only read what you want to read and take from it. In past Aimpoint posts I've explained, like someone said do a search and read. When your trying to put a valid point across, you just put obstacles in the way and DONT even say, yes I can see where your coming from with that, it's just your view and your view only. So I'm really wasting my time with you cos your stuck in your own little way of doing things. I didn't need to reply to Imurg as Homer already explained it, again showing you read only what you want to.. 

Scott's down fall in the Honda if you listened to Steve Williams radio interview a few days later was, what you keep harping on about, lack of pace? Is that Aimpoints fault?  No, Aimpoint doesn't swing the club, it was he who swung it, he may of read the putt right but his pace was off. No system can account for that not even the OLD method. You should know that, your not that thick! Or am I missing something, maybe I ought to ask* Oliver Ross *or James Lyle about that! 
 :thup:
		
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Who ?


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