# Looking for lost ball



## chrisd (Jan 30, 2012)

Sitting in the clubhouse after yesterdays game there was chat about rules. At one stage I said that I cant understand, in a strokeplay competition, why my playing partner who had hit a ball to an area that you just don't wan't to be, didn't play a provisional and if it was a good one just walk on without looking for his ball.

The usual argument ensued, someone insisted that you are obliged, under the rules, to look for your ball if you play a provisional. I said that I know the rule and there is no requirement for a player to search for his ball, although playing partners can, and if found within 5 minutes and assuming that he hadn't played his provisional (assuming it was past where his original ball was) then he would be obliged to proceed with the original ball.

Question - will the Â£20 bet be mine next Sunday?


Chris


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2012)

Yes.

I would always go and look for a playing partners ball though, regardless of whether they wanted it found or not. I like seeing people playing out of the bundu. It makes me happy.


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## stevie_r (Jan 30, 2012)

I think so, my understanding is that there is no requirement to waste 5 minutes of your life searching for it but that if found by a playing partner you cannot refuse to identify it.


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## chrisd (Jan 30, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Yes.

I would always go and look for a playing partners ball though, regardless of whether they wanted it found or not. I like seeing people playing out of the bundu. It makes me happy.
		
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Agreed on that Murph except it would depend on how claggy the bundu is and what I was wearing!


Chris


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## Ethan (Jan 30, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I said that I know the rule and there is no requirement for a player to search for his ball, although playing partners can, and if found within 5 minutes and assuming that he hadn't played his provisional (assuming it was past where his original ball was) then he would be obliged to proceed with the original ball.




Chris
		
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You are quite correct. Discussed here a few times.


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## bladeplayer (Jan 30, 2012)

chrisd said:



			, didn't play a provisional and if it was a good one just walk on without looking for his ball.



Chris
		
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Is didnt .. a typo Chris ?    The handiest way out is to not declare it a provisional just tee it up & play , then its in play no mater what your playing partners want .. 

I think you are correct in your understanding of the rule tho , you would be expected to look for your ball , obliged ? i think not .. if someone in your group finds & can identify it or asks you to identify it , & it is yours & provided you havent hit your "provisional" from in front of this point the origional ball would be back in play ..
 now i will be proven wrong by a rules expert ha ha


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## anotherdouble (Jan 30, 2012)

I understand all so far but my question is, if a provisional has been played and called a provisional and as a player i carry on walking down the fairway but a partner or opponent finds my ball and it is def mine, can i still be 3 off the tee eg prov ball in play or do i pick up prov and original ball is in play even though i have made no intention to look for 1st ball.  In effect i am deciding that i could not be in a much better position for 3 than I am for 3 off the tee and in position A.


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## chrisd (Jan 30, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Is didnt .. a typo Chris ? The handiest way out is to not declare it a provisional just tee it up & play , then its in play no mater what your playing partners want .. 

I think you are correct in your understanding of the rule tho , you would be expected to look for your ball , obliged ? i think not .. if someone in your group finds & can identify it or asks you to identify it , & it is yours & provided you havent hit your "provisional" from in front of this point the origional ball would be back in play ..
now i will be proven wrong by a rules expert ha ha
		
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You can't even be expected to look for it Blade. It's your decision if you look but as we've all said, you cant stop the others looking.

The main point that you may have missed is, you've hit your ball into trouble and at that point you dont  declare that the next ball is a provisional, you are then bound to continue with that second ball even if you hit that into the clag as well.

 However, if you declare the provisional and hit a pearl of a shot it's probable that you would want to ignore the first ball and hope that the other guys will also. You then are likely to save shots by either, not having to play the 1st ball where it was laying, not going back to where you played the first ball from and/or not taking a stroke and distance drop (both under penalty and assuming one or either ball was found).

So, in said circumstances, I would always declare a provisional and hope my playing partners are friendly!


Chris


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## Ethan (Jan 30, 2012)

anotherdouble said:



			I understand all so far but my question is, if a provisional has been played and called a provisional and as a player i carry on walking down the fairway but a partner or opponent finds my ball and it is def mine, can i still be 3 off the tee eg prov ball in play or do i pick up prov and original ball is in play even though i have made no intention to look for 1st ball.  In effect i am deciding that i could not be in a much better position for 3 than I am for 3 off the tee and in position A.
		
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If you have not played your provo from nearer the hole, and your original ball is found in play within 5 minutes, then the provo must be picked up and you must play the original. It doesn't matter who finds it, or whether you wanted it found or not.


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## anotherdouble (Jan 30, 2012)

Cheers Ethan that answers my question without any 'ifs or maybees. Black and white and no grey just how i like it.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Yes.

I would always go and look for a playing partners ball though, regardless of whether they wanted it found or not. I like seeing people playing out of the bundu. It makes me happy.
		
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So so glad im playing with you at Woburn lol


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## USER1999 (Jan 30, 2012)

fundy said:



			So so glad im playing with you at Woburn lol
		
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Just keep it on the short stuff, and it's no problem.


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## fundy (Jan 30, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Just keep it on the short stuff, and it's no problem.
		
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lol and to think I hadnt thought of that approach


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## HotDogAssassin (Jan 30, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			I would always go and look for a playing partners ball though, regardless of whether they wanted it found or not. I like seeing people playing out of the bundu. It makes me happy.
		
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In that case, you'd be a happy man playing with me.  :fore:


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## Oddsocks (Jan 30, 2012)

isnt the grey area whether your declare your 2nd ball as a provisional or not. IE you can declar the ball lost and declare your 2nd ball as ball in play, then it doesnt matter if the first ball is found or not?


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## bladeplayer (Jan 30, 2012)

Oddsocks said:



			isnt the grey area whether your declare your 2nd ball as a provisional or not. IE you can declar the ball lost and declare your 2nd ball as ball in play, then it doesnt matter if the first ball is found or not?
		
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From my time on here ive found you cannot declare a ball lost , they way around this I THINK would be to re tee without declaring ..


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## bladeplayer (Jan 30, 2012)

chrisd said:



			You can't even be expected to look for it Blade. It's your decision if you look but as we've all said, you cant stop the others looking.

The main point that you may have missed is, you've hit your ball into trouble and at that point you dont declare that the next ball is a provisional, you are then bound to continue with that second ball even if you hit that into the clag as well.

Chris
		
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 I apreciate what you are saying Chris regarding you cant be expected to , but isnt declaring a provisional a kind of saying im going to hit another one just in case i cannot find that one ? therefore i would expect you to at least look for the 1st one, how hard or how long is totaly up to you ..  but you are totaly correct you are not obliged to do that ..


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## chrisd (Jan 30, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			therefore i would expect you to at least look for the 1st one, how hard or how long is totaly up to you .. but you are totaly correct you are not obliged to do that ..
		
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That is precisely the point Blade, I cant be expected to look. The rules do not require me to, and therefore we are talking the unwritten rule, the right thing to do and other ways of saying that it isn't fair to use the rules in your favour - the rules though, are the rules, you are not obliged to look under the rules and therefore you cant be wrong by just strolling past the position where the ball is, and playing on. The rules are there to help as well as hurt and, I believe they generally hurt more than help. 

chris


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## daymond (Jan 30, 2012)

Unless you say on the tee that you are playing a provisional your next shot is three off the tee. Silence/I think my ball is lost/etc. is three off the tee. Always make shure that at least one of your group hears you say provisional.


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## Ethan (Jan 30, 2012)

daymond said:



			Unless you say on the tee that you are playing a provisional your next shot is three off the tee. Silence/I think my ball is lost/etc. is three off the tee. Always make shure that at least one of your group hears you say provisional.
		
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Correct. The other option is that one of your playing partners asks you if you are playing a provisional (before you hit it) and you answer or indicate in the affirmative. That satisfies the Rules of Golf.


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## sawtooth (Jan 30, 2012)

Is it true that the only person who can positively ID his ball is the player himself? 

If that's true what if the player then says "sorry but that's not my ball, its close but its not the same markings as mine"  and carries on with the provisional?

I'm not suggesting anyone should do this by the way because its tantamount to cheating.


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## chris661 (Jan 30, 2012)

Ethan said:



			Correct. The other option is that one of your playing partners asks you if you are playing a provisional (before you hit it) and you answer or indicate in the affirmative. That satisfies the Rules of Golf.
		
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I thought (from here) that the player had to declare a provisional and even if asked and answered "yeah" or whatever (affirmative) it wasn't sufficient. Happy to be wrong though, just wanting to clarify for myself is all.


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## backwoodsman (Jan 30, 2012)

Ethan said:



			Correct. The other option is that one of your playing partners asks you if you are playing a provisional (before you hit it) and you answer or indicate in the affirmative. That satisfies the Rules of Golf.
		
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The requirement is to make an unequivocal statement that it's a provisional ball. So, Q. "Are you playing a provisional?" A. "yes" - is ok. Whereas "Oh shice, I'd best play another " isn't - as "another" could be a prov or you may be putting another ball into play.

As to original post. It's safer to declare the second as a prov - just in case it ends up worse than the first. If it's a cracker and you don't want to find your first then definitely no requirement to look for it. But if your fellow competitors are the sorts who are likely to do the dirty on you, you have to leg it down the fairway and give the prov another smack before they find it. (i'm assuming that as the first was in the crap and the prov was a cracker, then the prov is already further down the fairway).


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## chrisd (Jan 30, 2012)

backwoodsman said:



			(i'm assuming that as the first was in the crap and the prov was a cracker, then the prov is already further down the fairway).
		
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It was a purely hypothetical question which had led to a (good humoured) argument and a bet of Â£20




Chris


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## backwoodsman (Jan 30, 2012)

chrisd said:



			It was a purely hypothetical question which had led to a (good humoured) argument and a bet of Â£20




Chris
		
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Yep - I was hypothetically assuming too.

Ps: the Â£20 ain't going to go far when you share it out amongst those who've given advice on here


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## ADB (Jan 30, 2012)

Sorry to labour this one, but what happens if you play a very good prov but your opponents decide to look for your first ball even if you dont want it found. Do you have to give them time to look or can you race down and smack the prov even if they have only been looking for, say, 1 minute thus making the prov now in play? Could it be seen as bad form although the quickening of pace down the hole from all parties would be welcomed!


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## JustOne (Jan 31, 2012)

snaphookwedge said:



			Sorry to labour this one, but what happens if you play a very good prov but your opponents decide to look for your first ball even if you dont want it found. Do you have to give them time to look or can you race down and smack the prov even if they have only been looking for, say, 1 minute thus making the prov now in play? Could it be seen as bad form although the quickening of pace down the hole from all parties would be welcomed!
		
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LOL... I did think it would be funny to see someone race down the fairway just to whack their provisional 

I guess as long as they are not playing out of turn that would be OK, probably bad ettiquette at the least. In terms of the original post you are allowed UP TO 5 minutes to look for your ball... it's not written anywhere that you need to take it though. I sometimes go looking as I'm walking past... if you are going to do that ALWAYS ask what ball they are playing before you head in there, that way if you DO find a ball and it's actually sitting OK they still might not be able to play it  


I think Murph's approach of looking in the bundu for all of his playing partners balls is one of the reasons he's so slow! 


:rofl::rofl:


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## backwoodsman (Jan 31, 2012)

snaphookwedge said:



			Sorry to labour this one, but what happens if you play a very good prov but your opponents decide to look for your first ball even if you dont want it found. Do you have to give them time to look or can you race down and smack the prov even if they have only been looking for, say, 1 minute thus making the prov now in play? Could it be seen as bad form although the quickening of pace down the hole from all parties would be welcomed!
		
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You don't have to give them any time at all.  Just play the prov and it's in play- (provided it was nearer the hole than the lost ball that is. (I suppose there's some complication when you have to consider whose turn to play and all that though?). Not sure it would count as bad form in taking a shot at the provisional - at least, no more than than someone looking for your ball when you've already made it plain you don't wish it to be found.


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## chrisd (Jan 31, 2012)

backwoodsman said:



			Yep - I was hypothetically assuming too.

Ps: the Â£20 ain't going to go far when you share it out amongst those who've given advice on here
		
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Hang on a dawgone second, I was right from the first posting as to the rules! there has been nothing said that has been new!



snaphookwedge said:



			Sorry to labour this one, but what happens if you play a very good prov but your opponents decide to look for your first ball even if you dont want it found. Do you have to give them time to look or can you race down and smack the prov even if they have only been looking for, say, 1 minute thus making the prov now in play? Could it be seen as bad form although the quickening of pace down the hole from all parties would be welcomed!
		
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Generally you would say "dont bother looking I'm going to play this one" and if you see Murph striding towards the  bundu then you play asap!


Chris


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## bobmac (Jan 31, 2012)

So, in other words, hit a provisional further than your first ball but not as far as your playing partners


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## sona (Jan 31, 2012)

Ethan said:



			If you have not played your provo from nearer the hole, and your original ball is found in play within 5 minutes, then the provo must be picked up and you must play the original. It doesn't matter who finds it, or whether you wanted it found or not.
		
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I am sorry if I am thick but what exactly is ment by " from nearer the hole" does is this in relation to the ball judged to be lost ? or other.


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## chrisd (Jan 31, 2012)

sona said:



			I am sorry if I am thick but what exactly is ment by " from nearer the hole" does is this in relation to the ball judged to be lost ? or other.
		
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Not thick at all and your pretty well right. If your provisional doesn't go as far as your first ball then you can play the prov until you reach where you think the other ball is. It makes sense as you could nut the fist ball 250 yards and then top your prov 3 times.


Chris


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## bobmac (Jan 31, 2012)

It makes sense as you could nut the fist ball 150 yards and then top your prov 3 times.
		
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Speak for yourself


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## chrisd (Jan 31, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Speak for yourself 

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I would top the first ball 3 times - it's easier!



Chris


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## bobmac (Jan 31, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I would top the first ball 3 times - it's easier!



Chris
		
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I told you to leave that *S*claf & *T*op alone but would you listen?


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## chrisd (Jan 31, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I told you to leave that *S*claf & *T*op alone but would you listen? 








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But you just wrote S & T and I didn't realise, I thought it meant Slap and Tickle, got excited and couldn't hit for love nor money!


Chris


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## sona (Jan 31, 2012)

chrisd said:



			Not thick at all and your pretty well right. If your provisional doesn't go as far as your first ball then you can play the prov until you reach where you think the other ball is. It makes sense as you could nut the fist ball 250 yards and then top your prov 3 times.


Chris[/QUOTE

Thanks Chris that is very helpful
		
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## Val (Jan 31, 2012)

Ethan said:



			If you have not played your provo from nearer the hole, and your original ball is found in play within 5 minutes, then the provo must be picked up and you must play the original. It doesn't matter who finds it, or whether you wanted it found or not.
		
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This is correct however if you say that your provisional is now the ball in play and declare your other ball lost then your partners should not be looking for your ball, if they still look for it after you declare your provisional the ball in play then i'd say this is rude more than anything.

You could always play your provisional again the minute it becomes nearer the hole than the "lost" ball therefore becoming the ball in play regardless.


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## Region3 (Jan 31, 2012)

Valentino said:



			This is correct however if you say that your provisional is now the ball in play and declare your other ball lost then your partners should not be looking for your ball, if they still look for it after you declare your provisional the ball in play then i'd say this is rude more than anything.

You could always play your provisional again the minute it becomes nearer the hole than the "lost" ball therefore becoming the ball in play regardless.
		
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You can't specifically declare a ball lost. If you don't want it to be the ball in play you either hit another without declaring it provisional, or hit your provisional from closer to the hole than where you original ball is estimated to be.

You can't hit your provisional then say it is the ball in play just because it was a good shot.


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## Val (Jan 31, 2012)

Region3 said:



			You can't specifically declare a ball lost. If you don't want it to be the ball in play you either hit another without declaring it provisional, or hit your provisional from closer to the hole than where you original ball is estimated to be.

You can't hit your provisional then say it is the ball in play just because it was a good shot.
		
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But you can have a quick 30 sec shifty and see then say "eff it it's a goner" then go play your now ball in play.


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## Region3 (Jan 31, 2012)

Valentino said:



			But you can have a quick 30 sec shifty and see then say "eff it it's a goner" then go play your now ball in play.



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Absolutely, you don't even have to look at all. It's just that you can't decide it's gone before something else has happened to mean it's no longer the ball in play.


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## MashieNiblick (Jan 31, 2012)

Valentino said:



			But you can have a quick 30 sec shifty and see then say "eff it it's a goner" then go play your now ball in play.



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And hope that one of your "mates" doesn't call after you "It's OK Mashie here it is, in the brambles by the tree root" just as you are heading towards your provo.

:angry:


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