# Is it right that a pro wont teach U how to hit a driver without startin on irons



## turkish (Sep 2, 2014)

Hi,

Obviously a Newbie so got many flaws in my game but the most obvious one for me is my driving, both in distance and slicing. It really is costing me most shots as I am often 3+ off the tee from either going OOB or hitting into the wilderness and not finding my ball.

Played and been a lot to the range and over past month have managed to lessen my slice, at the expense of distance(which wasn't huge to begin with). 

There are a couple of holes on my course where generally you need a driver, or can get away with a 3 wood if a decent sized hitter.

I have now been to 2 different PGA pro's for lessons and asked for lessons with my driver and they've both said with me being a beginner they really want to start on getting the fundamentals right with the iron (which I understand) but surely there must be a bit of coming and going with this?

My irons weren't great as had been hitting them fat but they have improved since some drills I have been given, and some videos to help my understanding.

I've been watching a lot of videos about slicing and there have been things that have helped(on just watched another today which I am going to use tonight) but I do feel having a lesson where I can be told what to change helps more.

My iron shots are relatively straight with the odd slice or pull.


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## brysoni23 (Sep 2, 2014)

Why do you need a driver? Your aim cant be to play for GIR's and make birdies as a beginner. 

So just work on the swing then introduce the driver later on. 

I started back up 3 months ago, I can hit my irons great but i'm bad with the woods so i just tee of with a 3 iron. 
Id rather be straight and in play than long and OOB.


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## turkish (Sep 2, 2014)

brysoni23 said:



			Why do you need a driver? Your aim cant be to play for GIR's and make birdies as a beginner. 

So just work on the swing then introduce the driver later on. 

I started back up 3 months ago, I can hit my irons great but i'm bad with the woods so i just tee of with a 3 iron. 
Id rather be straight and in play than long and OOB.
		
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Thanks well to begin with- there is certain hole on my course where where a 170 yard tee off is a must (any shorter and you won't get your ball), too big a slice and you are OOB. You can't aim left as there are tons of trees. It is quite a narrow target area but isn't actually that hard a hole once you hit the fairway

I want to play competitions and get my (guaranteed 28) Handicap so I can work on it. I don't want to start playing these until I can get through this hole from the white tee. From the yellow I am less than 50% keeping it in play and/or finding it.

There are other holes similar to this where you need to be "quite" long off the tee but can still be ok if the slice aint too bad.

So in general I understand totally all aspects of working on the fundamentals, working continuously with the irons, which I am doing a lot!!!

But I also have no chance if I can't sort my driver out too!


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## fundy (Sep 2, 2014)

basically you are trying to run before you can walk.

What the pro is trying to teach you with the irons will apply to the driver too, but it is far easier to learn to hit the irons first then apply this to the driver than just trying to learn to hit the driver first. Once you have got to a decent level of consistency with the irons then you can start to go through to the clubs at the longer end of the bag.

In the long term you'll thank him for sorting out your fundamentals this way


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## duncan mackie (Sep 2, 2014)

fundy said:



			basically you are trying to run before you can walk.

What the pro is trying to teach you with the irons will apply to the driver too, but it is far easier to learn to hit the irons first then apply this to the driver than just trying to learn to hit the driver first. Once you have got to a decent level of consistency with the irons then you can start to go through to the clubs at the longer end of the bag.

In the long term you'll thank him for sorting out your fundamentals this way
		
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what Fundy has said +++

in extremely basic terms - until you can put a half decent swing on a 7 iron (some would suggest a 6 is the shortest full swing but that's semantics ) you will not be able to swing a driver.

once you have a good swing with a 7 iron it is basically your head that will stop you swinging a driver well; you will try and muscle the ball with the longer clubs to get that distance etc etc etc and it all breaks down.

you can argue all you want about a driver swing being different, woods being swept, driver hit on the up but the same basic swing underlies all these minor elements - and starting with a driver and working back isn't the best way to approach things!


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## Khamelion (Sep 2, 2014)

A 6 or 7 iron to get the fundamentals right, either club gives you a bit of distance so you get the nice feeling of seeing the ball go down range when you get it right and both clubs are easy to control in your new swing.

Then as Fundy writes, when you get the fundamentals right with those clubs you can apply them to the longer clubs.


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## Foxholer (Sep 2, 2014)

Also seems as if you are at too tough a course for a 'beginner'!


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## turkish (Sep 3, 2014)

LOL so it is right only to be taught Irons from pros initially!!!

I am working on the fundamentals all the time; doing drills in my living room, at the range, without the ball, on practice area so will keep working on these with the irons.

Also constantly reading as much info as I can on fundamentals- bought faldos book which is helping, asking questions on here and watching a lot of videos- find menadmygolf guys the best

As for the course it's reasonably tough but I got a really good deal and is a lovely course and have a few mates there too. As for that hole in particular its only a S.I 9 as it's straight forward after the drive. The best i've had is a 6 on it. been many times 3 off tee, sometimes 5 and even the odd 7. Sometimes i've just NR'd too when not confident. Then the S.I 1 had a few pars and +1's....


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## North Mimms (Sep 3, 2014)

fundy said:



			basically you are trying to run before you can walk.

What the pro is trying to teach you with the irons will apply to the driver too, but it is far easier to learn to hit the irons first then apply this to the driver than just trying to learn to hit the driver first. Once you have got to a decent level of consistency with the irons then you can start to go through to the clubs at the longer end of the bag.

In the long term you'll thank him for sorting out your fundamentals this way
		
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Agreed.
Despite playing for yonks, I recently developed a major problem with my driving.
Went to a pro and he - like yours - retaught me fundementals using a 7 iron.
All subsequent lessons have been iron based, we haven't used a driver yet.
But my driving has improved A LOT


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 3, 2014)

As others have said, learning the basics will stand you in good stead, and this will feed down into your longer clubs. Firm fundamentals will have much better longer term results than rushing to hit driver on one hole which to be honest indicates to me that the course may be too hard for a newbie golfer


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## rickg (Sep 3, 2014)

In addition to what has already been suggested, I don't see any hybrids in your set up.
If that's the case, drop your 3,4 and 5 irons and get some hybrids, 28 degree, 24 and 21 degree would be good starting points.

These are easier to hit that  your long irons and would enable you to hit the fairway on your difficult hole as they are much more accurate than a driver.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 3, 2014)

You should swing the club the same for every full shot, all that changes is setup. Get it right for your irons and your driving will improve.

The biggest mistake made by amateur golfers is they try to lash the ball when they have a driver in their hands instead of swinging with the same tempo as all the other clubs.


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## Oddsocks (Sep 3, 2014)

fundy said:



			basically you are trying to run before you can walk.

What the pro is trying to teach you with the irons will apply to the driver too, but it is far easier to learn to hit the irons first then apply this to the driver than just trying to learn to hit the driver first. Once you have got to a decent level of consistency with the irons then you can start to go through to the clubs at the longer end of the bag.

In the long term you'll thank him for sorting out your fundamentals this way
		
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SPOT ON, 

When working on technique I don't hit anything bigger than an 6 iron, once it's working fluently with this I step up to 4i / low woods and once it's all firing onto the big dog

Bare in Milne most juniors/newbies will start with a 3/4/5w or hybrid as a " off the tee club " for no other reason other than consistency, I got to 11 as a junior using a 3w,


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## SaintHacker (Sep 3, 2014)

rickg said:



			In addition to what has already been suggested, I don't see any hybrids in your set up.
If that's the case, drop your 3,4 and 5 irons and get some hybrids, 28 degree, 24 and 21 degree would be good starting points.

These are easier to hit that  your long irons and would enable you to hit the fairway on your difficult hole as they are much more accurate than a driver.
		
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As a high handicap player myself I totally agree with Rick. If you're worried about getting it out over 180 yds a hybrid will do that easily, even with a less than perfect strike.


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## JustOne (Sep 3, 2014)

I would contact a pro and ask him specifically for a driver lesson. I don't see why you should have to learn irons.

Lots of people (including on this forum) hit their irons OK already but can't hit a driver for toffee.


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## garyinderry (Sep 3, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Lots of people (including on this forum) hit their irons OK already but can't hit a driver for toffee.
		
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hello :whoo:


I have completely different swings for irons than I do for the driver!      I know people talk about , same swing just different set ups. its not like that for me at all.     for a start I hit down an awful lot with my irons. I doubt I have the same angle of attack with the driver!


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## louise_a (Sep 3, 2014)

After playing for 12 months  and getting my handicap down to 19, I went to a pro from "tweaking" like you I hit irons well but not woods. He said you need a solid setup to start with and changed my grip, posture and stance then we started working on my swing.

There is no point in teaching someone how to make the best of a bad job. You need to get the basics sorted first.


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## JustOne (Sep 3, 2014)

Just turn up for your lesson with a driver and a 3-wood :thup:


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## Foxholer (Sep 3, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Just turn up for your lesson with a driver and a 3-wood :thup:
		
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:rofl: :clap: :thup:


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## turkish (Sep 8, 2014)

Ok a wee update!!! Played my 1st medal on Saturday and scored an expected 113 from the whites(par 70)- My best so far without NR'ing is 111 from yellows. 1st time i'd played from whites.

played some good holes and some not so good; in general my medium to long irons I play pretty well- have good contact now i've sorted my ball positioning- as I said before where I fall down is my driver primarily, then would say short game, then putting(never recorded them but in general 3 putting too much and had one 4 putt).

Went for a (group) trackman lesson with a pga pro yesterday. 

At first asked my handicap- told him not got yet but would be 28. From my irons he asked was I Bullsh**ing him with my handicap as irons seemed fine; told him about my driver issue so he got me on the trackman with driver.

Said I had far too negative an attack angle hence my slice. Also said this is likely why my irons seemed fine?!? He tried to show me what I was doing wrong and what I need to change and need to think more in terms of clubface than anything else- for the life of me I just could not get it! Anytime I tried to sweep more on the way up I usually got too far under the ball and it popped up like a PW. I said the tee looked higher than used to but he said it really shouldn't matter as it's the ball we're interested in coming up to not the ground?

I have ball positioned inside of left heel, reasonable posture and steady base.... I feel from what I've watched my set up is fine so I think it must obviously be coming from my clubface and downswing? Are there any drills I can follow to get my attack angle more positive or to neutral?


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

turkish said:



			He tried to show me what I was doing wrong and what I need to change and need to think more in terms of clubface than anything else- for the life of me I just could not get it! Anytime I tried to sweep more on the way up I usually got too far under the ball and it popped up like a PW. I said the tee looked higher than used to but he said it really shouldn't matter as it's the ball we're interested in coming up to not the ground?
		
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Hitting on the way UP will exacerbate any slice a player has (making it worse) until they to control the clubface in relation to the path (and to an extent, the path itself).

Hitting DOWN actually reduces a slice slightly..... it's complicated..... just keep with what your pro is showing you (rather than what he's telling you) :lol:


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## turkish (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Hitting on the way UP will exacerbate any slice a player has (making it worse) until they to control the clubface in relation to the path (and to an extent, the path itself).

Hitting DOWN actually reduces a slice slightly..... it's complicated..... just keep with what your pro is showing you (rather than what he's telling you) :lol:
		
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JustOne said:



			Hitting on the way UP will exacerbate any slice a  player has (making it worse) until they to control the clubface in  relation to the path (and to an extent, the path itself).

Hitting DOWN actually reduces a slice slightly..... it's  complicated..... just keep with what your pro is showing you (rather  than what he's telling you) :lol:
		
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LOL ok even more confused now!!! To be honest this isn't the pro I had been dealing with- this guy was a massive douche!!!! Good player right enough and could hit the ball miles and straight. He seemed more interested in showing the group this than teaching though.

Got  a deal on one of these websites for a trackman lesson followed by 9  holes played with PGA pro whereby he was supposed to review each shot  round the course- this did not happen. after the range session tried to  sell lessons so think he took the huff when said couldn't afford it at  present. Another nice couple he had been teaching for 8 months- they  were realy really bad and I think it was his teaching.

I thought at least I came away with something at least with the trackman info but appears not.

LOL one thing I chuckled to myself about was; his own 1st tee shot went into bushes on the right, said he found it, then proceeded to drop it out the crap, hit onto the green from that shot then 2 putted, myself and 3 other scored our cards; I had a 6, the other guy 7 and girl NR'd- she asked so what did you get; and he said a 4   I never even said anything because I knew he was just an ar$e


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Do you actually know what causes a slice?


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## turkish (Sep 8, 2014)

The club face cutting across the ball causing spin.... same way if you want to curve a ball with your foot


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

The slice comes because the face of the club is pointed more right (open) than the direction the club is swinging.

You could be swinging the club a lot left with the clubface only a little left, and that will slice

You could be swinging a little to the right with the clubface a little bit MORE to the right, and that ball will also slice, probably over to the next fairway 

The amount of difference between the direction the club is swinging and where the club face is pointing governs just how much slice you will get. The CLOSER you can get the face to the path OR the path to the face then the less a ball will curve.

So if you are trying to fix a slice you either need to fix the club face direction at impact.... or the swing direction... OR BOTH.

The question is WHY is your swing path going to the left of the clubface OR why is your clubface pointing to the right of your swing path, that is something that the pro is supposed to fix.... simply trying to get you to swing more UP isn't the fix by itself, you need the face and the path to be closer matched.


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## the_coach (Sep 8, 2014)

as a general point many club golfers have an out to in, so a ways too steep narrow downswing attack on the ball with their clubs in general. combine that with a face angle that's open you'll get a slice, the less loft on the club the more curvature of the balls flight.

with this kind of an action there will be a kinda more workable result with the irons with the ball on the ground (particularly the higher lofted end of the bag) but there will still be issues of varying degrees even with the irons, such as fats & thins etc plus unwanted curvatures of ball flight.

with the longer end of the bag, lower lofted clubs, particularly with the ball on a tee, good contact will be even more problematic with these swing issues. 
often the golfer will because of the results feel both compelled to tee the ball down & aim further left but this will only really compound the issues with trying to get center of face to ball & result in accentuating the problem of the steep angle of attack.

you want in order to be able to get optimum contact, so optimum results with the driver, to have an upwards angle of attack into impact.
the main thing you have to consider is just where in the swing arc is the low point. useful in this respect to visualize that the clubhead travels around the golfer on an inclined circle. (not exactly a circle but it's useful to picture that)

the action you describe through the results, has either the low point being way too far before the clubhead arrives to ball, so much that instinctively in order to miss dumping the club into the ground you have to stand up out of posture & pull the arms/club upwards across the body swinging left, doing this also makes in pretty impossible for the upper body to rotate through the shot, instead there's a lateral tilt, also causes the hands to flip, right palm upwards so left hand collapses both adding loft & opening the face.

or alternatively with this action on the way to ball, the upper body moves laterally left with the lower body instead of turning this puts the sternum & your center right up next to the ball, or even past it. 
with a lot of the upper body too far forwards, the arms/club can also only chop down steeply on top of the ball, this action often results in the 'skied shot' goes up but not forwards & puts those little white marks on the crown of the driver/metals even hybrids. even with a driver off a tee sometimes club is so steep that after ball contact the golfer can only dump the club straight into the teeing ground.

with either of these actions the forwards swing is very truncated, left arm often 'chicken winging', no extension or rotation through impact so any end of swing to the top is usually a tagged on afterthought rather than a continuous swing to a balanced top of swing position.

think to focus on is the clubhead swinging around the body on an inclined circle. 
that the upper body's movement is a rotary turning motion, both in the club going back to the top & the swing through impact to the finish, the arms should be connected to the body turn back & through. 
the hip motion is too primarily rotary, no sway to the right off the ball.

where your sternum is so too will fall the low point of the clubhead during any particular swing motion.
so to drive the ball well your sternum, so center, needs to stay some 4" trailside behind the ball, clubhead passes low point opposite this point then swings on past upwards through the ball.

[video=youtube_share;lnopJFvTa3Q]http://youtu.be/lnopJFvTa3Q[/video]


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## the_coach (Sep 8, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;mfli4ocXFzk]http://youtu.be/mfli4ocXFzk[/video]


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## the_coach (Sep 8, 2014)

couple things that are key to being able to have an upwards driver attack through impact are.
 the ball is some 3" - 3&1/2" above the ground, sternum somewhere around 4" behind that ball position. 
good indicator to get the ball in the right position with the driver is to have it opposite the left armpit- more reliable than the left foot position can sometimes be.

the right hand obviously lower on the handle, so the right shoulder will be lower too - unless the upper body held wrongly in an artificial more level forwards position - the stance with the driver is wider which further lowers the right shoulder so there can be the secondary spine tilt away from the target.

[video=youtube_share;5Lb3fp5goLc]http://youtu.be/5Lb3fp5goLc[/video]


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## Smiffy (Sep 8, 2014)

Once you get the hang of your irons, and the distances that you are likely to achieve with them, you begin to swing within yourself.
As a "newbie" put a driver in your hand and immediately infinity becomes your aim, and all hopes of a controlled swing go out of the window.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 9, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Once you get the hang of your irons, and the distances that you are likely to achieve with them, you begin to swing within yourself.
As a "newbie" put a driver in your hand and immediately infinity becomes your aim, and all hopes of a controlled swing go out of the window.


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Never was a truer word (written) spoken!!  :thup:


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## Smiffy (Sep 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Never was a truer word (written) spoken!!  :thup:
		
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You see. I'm not as silly as I look/act


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## MadAdey (Sep 10, 2014)

Turkish, I can see where the instructor is coming from. You are new to the game and even though feel you are hitting your irons ok, he wants to get you off on the correct footing. Without seeing your swing it is difficult to comment, but I imagine he has seen some problems and he wants you to learn the fundamentals of a solid swing. Thing is the best way to do that is with a 6/7 in your hand not a driver.


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