# Matchplay Championships @ Forest of Arden



## Foxholer (Apr 15, 2014)

http://www.matchplaychampionship.co.uk/liveleaderboards.aspx?ref=mpea044

A familiar name near the top!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

Foxholer said:



http://www.matchplaychampionship.co.uk/liveleaderboards.aspx?ref=mpea044

A familiar name near the top!
		
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Who ?


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## nemicu (Apr 15, 2014)

So how does stableford scoring equate to matchplay?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 15, 2014)

nemicu said:



			So how does stableford scoring equate to matchplay?
		
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Matchplay is the company sponsering it


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## nemicu (Apr 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Matchplay is the company sponsering it
		
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OK thanks.


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## rich1981 (Apr 16, 2014)

Myself and Simmb entered the pairs of this and lost in the 4th round.  Since that match in Feb our opponents have been dropped 13 shots between them.


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who ?
		
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Check out any number of other 'high worth' (mainly Dubai trip) competitions over the last couple of years - and the Trilby.

You'll find a couple of names featuring quite often!


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## louise_a (Apr 16, 2014)

strange a certain player was off 13 when he won a TT event 3 years ago but is now off 17!


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2014)

louise_a said:



			strange a certain player was off 13 when he won a TT event 3 years ago but is now off 17!
		
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TT was 3/4 handicap; Matchplay is Full. Mustn't perform very well in Club Medals!


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## Stuey01 (Apr 16, 2014)

Scoring is pretty poor. Only one guy under par off full handicap. Forest of Arden isn't that tough, given the thinly veiled banditry suggestions I'd have expected to see some really good scoring.


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## llewell71 (Apr 16, 2014)

louise_a said:



			strange a certain player was off 13 when he won a TT event 3 years ago but is now off 17!
		
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I would back tom Muldoon to walk away with the title this year! Shame I wasn't allowed to defend but playing tom off 17 and giving him 11 shots I would struggle as it's hard to beat him after he was cut to 11 in trilby last year! 
Id put my money on the short game wizard.


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## Fish (Apr 16, 2014)

7 pars and 1 blob off 17 for 36 points, your havin' a larf....

If he was off 11 last year how can he be off 17 now? That would equate to 60 x 0.1 rounds?


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## llewell71 (Apr 16, 2014)

Fish said:



			7 pars and 1 blob off 17 for 36 points, your havin' a larf....

If he was off 11 last year how can he be off 17 now? That would equate to 60 x 0.1 rounds?
		
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That's toms Tt handicap, Tt cut people after taking stick of how well they play in there tournament, he does play an awful lot of golf though I believe


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

Ah right - the yearly hunt for glory from the usual suspects whose handicaps always seem to increase. 

Thats why its not worth entering these sort of comps because you cant trust the majority of their handicaps.


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## llewell71 (Apr 16, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			That's toms Tt handicap, Tt cut people after taking stick of how well they play in there tournament, he does play an awful lot of golf though I believe
		
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Stock not stick


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## llewell71 (Apr 16, 2014)

Not sure about that, I think it doesn't matter what comps you play there are always people who play consistently well when it matters, guess it's there mindset , I'd still back him to win in Dubai by a few, he's a likeable guy too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

So in the TT he is 11 and other he is 17 ??

Im guessing these people dont put their scores from these comps into their clubs so they can have a fair reflected handicap

Dodgy handicaps - wont go near those tournaments.

Will stick to affiliated Pro Ams


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## llewell71 (Apr 16, 2014)

Yes that's right the Tt are stringent with handicaps, unlike other tournaments It seems


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## rickg (Apr 16, 2014)

Lol......

http://hdidgolfacademy.blogspot.co.uk/p/howdidido-matchplay-2014-grand-final.html


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

rickg said:



			Lol......

http://hdidgolfacademy.blogspot.co.uk/p/howdidido-matchplay-2014-grand-final.html

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Not a popular bloke is he 

Does his results in these comps not get sent back to his club then ?


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## llewell71 (Apr 16, 2014)

Hello Ricky nice to see you back on here!


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## rickg (Apr 16, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Hello Ricky nice to see you back on here!
		
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Always here Paul.......always here...


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## 3565 (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not a popular bloke is he 

Does his results in these comps not get sent back to his club then ?
		
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Its Matchplay how can they chop him?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

3565 said:



			Its Matchplay how can they chop him?
		
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He also plays in stableford comps


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## 3565 (Apr 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He also plays in stableford comps
		
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Dont know luck of the Irish........ Or Ireland's handicapping system is backward???


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2014)

3565 said:



			Dont know luck of the Irish........ Or Ireland's handicapping system is backward???
		
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Basically just manufacturing their handicaps to allow them to win these type of comps


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 16, 2014)

It's people like these that make a mockery of all of these events. I'm reticent to call it cheating but it seems strange his handicap has gone up so much but come the big event and pow he's back on form. Something fishy going on


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## G1BB0 (Apr 16, 2014)

If I was ever half decent enough to enter one of these comps I would check if any of these notorious handicap bandits were entered and promptly not bother.

17 h/c!!! who is he kidding

apparently these comps have amalgamated and have a new logo


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## Region3 (Apr 17, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Not sure about that, I think it doesn't matter what comps you play *there are always people who play consistently well when it matters, guess it's there mindset *, I'd still back him to win in Dubai by a few, he's a likeable guy too.
		
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"When it matters" also includes club medals with card in hand. What it should read is "When it suits them".

The "mindset" is a lack of morals.


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2014)

Region3 said:



			"When it matters" also includes club medals with card in hand. What it should read is "When it suits them".

The "mindset" is a lack of morals.
		
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## llewell71 (Apr 17, 2014)

Region3 said:



			"When it matters" also includes club medals with card in hand. What it should read is "When it suits them".

The "mindset" is a lack of morals.
		
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My thoughts are to let people get on with it, It does make it harder to compete but makes it more enjoyable when you do beat them! I guess some people have bigger conscious than others! 
Anyway Ricky how's your game?


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			My thoughts are to let people get on with it, It does make it harder to compete but makes it more enjoyable when you do beat them! I guess some people have bigger conscious than others! 
Anyway Ricky how's your game?
		
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Do you think that doing away with 3/4 handicap in these comps would make them become more inclusive and remove the stigma's attached to them? At least then all those cards would be sent back to home clubs and you would eliminate the cheats that play very few club medals knowing they can comfortably play to 3/4's and as we see, dominate or always see their names in the prizes of all the National comps.


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## Birchy (Apr 17, 2014)

Short game wizard with a 17 handicap.

Yeah ok :rofl:


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Short game wizard with a 17 handicap.

Yeah ok :rofl:
		
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Madness isn't it. He's been playing off 11 less than 3yrs ago and last year in the TT and yet when he plays off 3/4's of 17 he finds himself playing off 13 so well within he capabilities, its just plain cheating!


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## chrisd (Apr 17, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			I would back tom Muldoon .........
Id put my money on the short game wizard.
		
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There is no such thing as a short game wizard off 17.

Especially one who always seems to clean up in the big comps, I know what I'd call him and wizard isnt the word!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2014)

Nice to see the TT boys backing him up.

Could the handicap committee of his home club cut him for his continuous  success?


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## 3565 (Apr 17, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Nice to see the TT boys backing him up.

Could the handicap committee of his home club cut him for his continuous  success?
		
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not sure if he is being backed, by what I've read and understand that the TT chopped him to 11 if he wanted to play, but in the matchplay event he has his full hc, and from what I gather he's been in this matchplay event previous years and has got to the final in Dubai, and on a lower hc then he has now? Now why his hc has gone up, only he knows that, but you got to look at the Matchplay event and ask why they don't do a similar thing as what the TT have done?


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## Qwerty (Apr 17, 2014)

He must have played quite a lot of medals to get that H'cap back up to 17.

If he's as good as it appears he must be N'R'ing on the last couple holes in the medals, either that or he's playing crap intentionally all the way round which I really can't see.

I can't get my head round it to be honest.. Id get more satisfaction from a low handicap rather than the kudos of winning a few comps and a trip to Dubai.


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## Birchy (Apr 17, 2014)

Fish said:



			Madness isn't it. He's been playing off 11 less than 3yrs ago and last year in the TT and yet when he plays off 3/4's of 17 he finds himself playing off 13 so well within he capabilities, its just plain cheating!
		
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Maybe he gets up and down for bogey 17 times a round and then hits the green and 3 putts the other one?


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## bladeplayer (Apr 17, 2014)

Just a heads up lads i think we were asked to be careful discussing some of the topics mentioned here previously by our top man ..

think it was this subject anyhow

I have thoughts similar to some already and previously posted but fault lies at the door of more than any competitor who can use the system to their own benefits ...


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## Twire (Apr 17, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			Just a heads up lads i think we were asked to be careful discussing some of the topics mentioned here previously by our top man ..

think it was this subject anyhow

I have thoughts similar to some already and previously posted but fault lies at the door of more than any competitor who can use the system to their own benefits ...
		
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As Bladeplayer has said, be careful what you say. Anything libelous will get the thread removed.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 17, 2014)

3565 said:



			not sure if he is being backed, by what I've read and understand that the TT chopped him to 11 if he wanted to play, but in the matchplay event he has his full hc, and from what I gather he's been in this matchplay event previous years and has got to the final in Dubai, and on a lower hc then he has now? *Now why his hc has gone up, only he knows that*, but you got to look at the Matchplay event and ask why they don't do a similar thing as what the TT have done?
		
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I don't think you need to be a brain surgeon to work this out.

I'd like to know who the handicap chairman is at his club though!

If any player has an active official handicap then i can't see what the organisers can do.


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			I would back tom Muldoon to walk away with the title this year! *Shame I wasn't allowed to defend* but playing tom off 17 and giving him 11 shots I would struggle as it's hard to beat him after he was cut to 11 in trilby last year! 
Id put my money on the short game wizard.
		
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How come you weren't allowed to defend? TT Policy? Not a bad one if it is imo.

No particular 1st Tee nerves for you in the TT - that happens every bleedin' time at your course!


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## llewell71 (Apr 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			How come you weren't allowed to defend? TT Policy? Not a bad one if it is imo.

No particular 1st Tee nerves for you in the TT - that happens every bleedin' time at your course!

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Not defend Matchplay title after complaints of winning playing off 6 ! Lol didn't even shoot near my
handicap in three rounds last year!
tt have it right!


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## 3565 (Apr 17, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Not defend Matchplay title after complaints of winning playing off 6 ! Lol didn't even shoot near my
handicap in three rounds last year!
tt have it right!
		
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How do they have it right?


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Not defend Matchplay title after complaints of winning playing off 6 ! Lol didn't even shoot near my
handicap in three rounds last year!
tt have it right!
		
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Oops! Confused myself! Mixing you up with the TT winner! Doh!


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## llewell71 (Apr 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			How come you weren't allowed to defend? TT Policy? Not a bad one if it is imo.

No particular 1st Tee nerves for you in the TT - that happens every bleedin' time at your course!

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Nerves my course? Lost me on that one


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## mashleyR7 (Apr 17, 2014)

The bloke who beat me in the 4th round to go to the final of the Matchplay plate @ The Arden is last place shooting +23 13 points :ears:


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## mashleyR7 (Apr 17, 2014)

I entered the HDID, Matchplay and Nike events last year and really enjoyed all the matches I played in, I made the semi final of the plate event. It's such a shame the organisers are not interested in making sure they are clean without dodgy handicaps. Surely, they'd make more money if they did make it fairer and honest. Congu should get involved and say to all clubs that these comps are all mandatory Q comps for home handicaps.

Reading threads like this will stop me shelling out Â£100 odd to enter them all this year.


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## rickg (Apr 17, 2014)

mashleyR7 said:



			I entered the HDID, Matchplay and Nike events last year and really enjoyed all the matches I played in, I made the semi final of the plate event. It's such a shame the organisers are not interested in making sure they are clean without dodgy handicaps. Surely, they'd make more money if they did make it fairer and honest. Congu should get involved and say to all clubs that these comps are all mandatory Q comps for home handicaps.

Reading threads like this will stop me shelling out Â£100 odd to enter them all this year.
		
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I also entered all the main events last year, Trilby, HDID knockout, Matchplay, Volvo/Nike etc,etc......I haven't entered any of them this year, as much as I enjoy the experience, as I'm just fed up to the back teeth of the handicap protectors that win year after year.


I got to the final of the HDID last year.....won all my knockout rounds, then the final was a stableford round....  I knew then I had no chance........there were only 2 single figure golfers at the final.......I mentioned to the organiser on the day that 42 min would win it and for me I would have to shoot a sub par gross round to even stand a chance............he disagreed and said everyone had an equal chance.....44 won it...   (some forum members on here are from the same club and weren't surprised when I mentioned his name to them....he has history).

As long as the prizes are expenses paid holidays then people will manipulate their handicaps......same names year after year shows this....

I really don't understand why their home clubs don't do something............there must be some very embarrassed handicap secretaries out there.


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## Birchy (Apr 17, 2014)

There will always be events like this as the people running them dont give a crap if the winner is a cheat, bandit, protector or anything. All they bother about is the wonga.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2014)

My mate has entered me into the Nike Tour with him - after reading that Rick I'm guessing it will be a waste of time

It's a shame that these Amatuer comps get ruined by people who will do anything to win - it should be about the fairness and the social aspect as much as the competing


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## rickg (Apr 17, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Anyway Ricky how's your game?
		
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Pretty good at the moment Paul......but not good enough to win any of these comps........


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## 3565 (Apr 17, 2014)

I played in 2 national Matchplay events last year, I played singles against a 10hc who came off holiday and not hit a golf ball in 3 weeks, got 1 up after 3 holes and shook his hand after 15th, I was 2over gross (my hc) he was 4over gross 5&3 ta very much, I just had one of them days he said, do me a favour and **** ***, but conversely I played in a pairs against a +1 and 1hc we were both of 2, they shot gross 66 better ball we were 68 better ball, went to 19th and they birdied it to win.. Great game and pleasure to play in. 

Moral of this, not to enter NATIONAL Matchplay events unless they are Cat 1 comps or scratch.


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## llewell71 (Apr 18, 2014)

rickg said:



			Pretty good at the moment Paul......but not good enough to win any of these comps........

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You would have to shoot 5 under gross to win some of these comps off our handicap Ricky!


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## llewell71 (Apr 18, 2014)

3565 said:



			I played in 2 national Matchplay events last year, I played singles against a 10hc who came off holiday and not hit a golf ball in 3 weeks, got 1 up after 3 holes and shook his hand after 15th, I was 2over gross (my hc) he was 4over gross 5&3 ta very much, I just had one of them days he said, do me a favour and **** ***, but conversely I played in a pairs against a +1 and 1hc we were both of 2, they shot gross 66 better ball we were 68 better ball, went to 19th and they birdied it to win.. Great game and pleasure to play in. 

Moral of this, not to enter NATIONAL Matchplay events unless they are Cat 1 comps or scratch.
		
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3565, there are cat 1 players out there that shoot 2 and 3 under regular playing off 5!!!! And they enter the same events! 3/4 handicap don't make a difference to them either! Maybe there should be pre qualifying events before these events take place?


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## llewell71 (Apr 18, 2014)

Hi Ricky I'd be interested to know what comp that was with 44 points! Wow! Was that off 3/4 too?


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## Fish (Apr 18, 2014)

I think changing the format during a comp is ridiculous, if it starts as stroke play it should be played out the same in the final.


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## rickg (Apr 18, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Hi Ricky I'd be interested to know what comp that was with 44 points! Wow! Was that off 3/4 too?
		
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Botley Park final of the HDID. I argued that it should be 3/4 but HDID organiser couldn't see the problem of full allowance.........I had a pretty good round in tough conditions and thought I'd done OK......I came 3rd last!!


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## chrisd (Apr 18, 2014)

rickg said:



			Botley Park final of the HDID. I argued that it should be 3/4 but HDID organiser couldn't see the problem of full allowance.........I had a pretty good round in tough conditions and thought I'd done OK......I came 3rd last!! 

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........ But at least it saved them from a speech!


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## richart (Apr 18, 2014)

chrisd said:



			........ But at least it saved them from a speech! 

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You would have thought so wouldn't you.


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## Foxholer (Apr 18, 2014)

rickg said:



			Botley Park final of the HDID. I argued that it should be 3/4 but HDID organiser couldn't see the problem of full allowance.........I had a pretty good round in tough conditions and thought I'd done OK......I came 3rd last!! 

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3/4 Handicap doesn't prevent sandbagging! It merely assists the lower handicappers - as if they need more!


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## Foxholer (May 12, 2014)

And the most consistent 17-capper I know has had another good round!

http://www.matchplaychampionship.co.uk/liveleaderboards.aspx?ref=mpeC054


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## Liverpoolphil (May 12, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And the most consistent 17-capper I know has had another good round!

http://www.matchplaychampionship.co.uk/liveleaderboards.aspx?ref=mpeC054

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Who are we supposed to be looking at ? Singles ? Mixed or Team ?


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## Foxholer (May 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who are we supposed to be looking at ? Singles ? Mixed or Team ?
		
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Have a think!

Hint: Which one has handicaps listed on the results summary!


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## rickg (May 12, 2014)

23 points back 9 with a blob!!


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## llewell71 (May 13, 2014)

rickg said:



			23 points back 9 with a blob!! 

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Let's see if my prediction is right! Muldoon to win by 10 shots overall


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## Liqdaddymac (May 13, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Let's see if my prediction is right! Muldoon to win by 10 shots overall
		
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I am not too sure, P Jones & C Wall have plenty of international holidays playing golf for Â£25-Â£35 entry fee under their belts!

Current top 3 will have a very good chance to be 10 shots clear of everyone else though.....

Wonder if Saimir is still using a Â£20 set of irons playing off 2?


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## llewell71 (May 13, 2014)

Liqdaddymac said:



			I am not too sure, P Jones & C Wall have plenty of international holidays playing golf for Â£25-Â£35 entry fee under their belts!Current top 3 will have a very good chance to be 10 shots clear of everyone else though.....Wonder if Saimir is still using a Â£20 set of irons playing off 2?
		
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Saimir was turning pro last year I heard and it was Darren that had the dunlops, although he got a nice set off direct golf for free after the event! Nice touch, seems there are journey men everywhere, interesting that there are a few people that again have been allowed to play again, seems there rules to reject entry only applies to a few! Oh correction 1 person!I'm sure that tom will have a 37 and a 43 to take it! Wonder what the odds are on bet Fred? Lol


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## llewell71 (May 13, 2014)

rickg said:



			23 points back 9 with a blob!! 

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Ricky did you expect any other??? Let's face it the ball flies 40-50 yards further and the greens are really receptive, perfect conditions and with 17 shots even we could get a good score going! Tom isn't the longest off the tee but is straight and with the extra length I'd say he has a great chance!


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## Stuart_C (May 13, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Ricky did you expect any other??? Let's face it the ball flies 40-50 yards further and the greens are really receptive, perfect conditions and with 17 shots even we could get a good score going! *Tom isn't the longest off the tee but is straight and with the extra length I'd say he has a great chance!*

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I'm not surprised with at least 6 shots in hand.


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## Foxholer (May 13, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Let's see if my prediction is right! Muldoon to win by 10 shots overall
		
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Looks like it will be closer than that!


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## rickg (May 13, 2014)

How come there is is no H/C adjustment between rounds? 39 in 1st round off 17, but still playing off 17 in round 2. It's off full handicap so no reason why a CSS can't be calculated....


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## chrisd (May 13, 2014)

Well at least he won't be getting any holiday or whatever from my entry money as I steadfastly refuse to enter these farcical comps!


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## chrisd (May 13, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Ricky did you expect any other??? Let's face it the ball flies 40-50 yards further and the greens are really receptive, perfect conditions and with 17 shots even we could get a good score going! Tom isn't the longest off the tee but is straight and with the extra length I'd say he has a great chance!
		
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Exactly the point!

If any single figure ability golfer (like Rick) were to be given 17 shots they could get a score going and, sorry, no 17 handicap golfer I know is straight and can hit 50 yards longer in good conditions, they are always 17 for a reason, or they are not 17!


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## pbrown7582 (May 14, 2014)

rickg said:



			How come there is is no H/C adjustment between rounds? 39 in 1st round off 17, but still playing off 17 in round 2. It's off full handicap so no reason why a CSS can't be calculated.... 

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competition rules most likely as its not uncommon for cuts not to be activated until after a multi round comp.


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

rickg said:



			How come there is is no H/C adjustment between rounds? 39 in 1st round off 17, but still playing off 17 in round 2. It's off full handicap so no reason why a CSS can't be calculated.... 

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All the multi-round comps I know - Club Champs, 36-holer comps etc - use starting handicap throughout.

Those all adjust afterwards though, something that I'm almost certain won't happen here as the course won't have been rated for Congu, so no SSS.

I'm picking 39 points plus to win.


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## llewell71 (May 14, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Looks like it will be closer than that!
		
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Good start from tom today 5 points after 2 I think he'll put the hammer down today!


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## rickg (May 14, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Good start from tom today 5 points after 2 I think he'll put the hammer down today! 

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You know him well Paul, doesn't he ever get embarrased?


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Good start from tom today 5 points after 2 I think he'll put the hammer down today! 

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Can you explain (carefully though ) how a 17-capper can 'put the hammer down'?  

Farcical!:rant:


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## Fish (May 14, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Good start from tom today 5 points after 2 I think he'll put the hammer down today! 

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As Foxholer has said, this comment is almost encouraging his actions and indeed endorsing them and shows your support of him when clearly to the masses, its just plain wrong!


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## mashleyR7 (May 14, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			Good start from tom today 5 points after 2 I think he'll put the hammer down today! 

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In this situation most 17 hcp's I know would probably get a bit carried away, have a wobble mid round, then maybe recover and post a potentially winning score, or maybe even crumble a fade to a mid table finish. 

I certainly would not expect a 17hcp to be able to start thinking about 'putting the hammer down' after just two holes. 

You seem to have your tongue firmly wedged somewhere on this bloke I'm surprised he's able to swing. 

Do you really believe that this bloke is a geniune 17 hcp player? Even though he can get to the final year in year out in these comps? Don't you think playing that consistent over a long period of time would not bring his handicap down at his home club?


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## Fish (May 14, 2014)

mashleyR7 said:



			Do you really believe that this bloke is a geniune 17 hcp player? Even though he can get to the final year in year out in these comps? Don't you think playing that consistent over a long period of time would not bring his handicap down at his home club?
		
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Wasn't all that long ago he was off 11, however, if he plays at Ryton Golf Club which some people seem to believe he does, why does his club show him off 8


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			Wasn't all that long ago he was off 11, however, if he plays at Ryton Golf Club which some people seem to believe he does, why does his club show him off 8 

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Cabra Castle according to Matchplay report.


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## mashleyR7 (May 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			Wasn't all that long ago he was off 11, however, if he plays at Ryton Golf Club which some people seem to believe he does, why does his club show him off 8 

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Wasn't it mentioned earlier that the 11 was in the Tribly Tour, where he was cut by them? Just in the interest of fairness. 

What I can't understand is that the organiser don't seem to want any integrity in their event. I'd of thought it was entirely acceptable for them to check the handicap of every player who gets through to the final at a very minimum, they should be checked for every entry really. I played in all of these comps last year and apart from the online entry form I was never asked to prove my hcp, I could of put anything. I was actually suspicious of one of my FC and asked him to bring his certificate with him!


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## Fish (May 14, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Cabra Castle according to Matchplay report.
		
Click to expand...

Hmm, I thought it was across the water but so many reports from too many people that he plays elsewhere also, more so over here due to the amount of golf and time he spends over here!

He was definitely off 11 a while back, from 11 to 17 at a flat rate would mean 60 x 0.1's and with the way he keeps winning comps during that time, its disgusting and brings the whole sport and national comps that let this slide into serious question!


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## llewell71 (May 14, 2014)

QUOTE=Fish;1063982]Hmm, I thought it was across the water but so many reports from too many people that he plays elsewhere also, more so over here due to the amount of golf and time he spends over here!

He was definitely off 11 a while back, from 11 to 17 at a flat rate would mean 60 x 0.1's and with the way he keeps winning comps during that time, its disgusting and brings the whole sport and national comps that let this slide into serious question![/QUOTE]
Gents gents gents! I'm not condoning toms handicap of 17 I know he's a much better player and as i stated he has experience tondo with the shots hence me stating he would win, a lot of my comments are firmly tongue in cheek,(as Ricky knows too well) i think it's laughable that personally my own handicap came down by 7 shots ad then I defended playing off 6 in this so called tournament winning with rounds of 28, 38,30 consequently then banned from playing on it! So from my point of view I'm not surprised to see this happen! In fact I predicted it would!


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## richart (May 14, 2014)

six 3 pointers on the front 9.


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

richart said:



			six 3 pointers on the front 9.

Click to expand...

Given that he's 6 points clear and playing in the same group as nearest rival, I'm predicting a 'poor' back 9 - only 15 points, or enough to win by a couple.


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## llewell71 (May 14, 2014)

Incorrect the ball flies much further out there believe me!


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## llewell71 (May 14, 2014)

19 points back 9 I would say it's slightly harder although tom shot 23 back 9 round 1


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			i think it's laughable that personally my own handicap came down by 7 shots ad then I defended playing off 6 in this so called tournament winning with rounds of 28, 38,30 consequently then banned from playing on it! So from my point of view I'm not surprised to see this happen! In fact I predicted it would!
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be particularly surprised if, having won it twice (consecutively), my entry was (politely) declined! That's slightly different to 'banned', even though the same effect. And it's also different to sand-bagging!


Fish said:



			...
He was definitely off 11 a while back, from 11 to 17 at a flat rate would mean 60 x 0.1's and with the way he keeps winning comps during that time, its disgusting and brings the whole sport and national comps that let this slide into serious question!
		
Click to expand...

I believe you need to be able to prove that the '11' wasn't either an agreed handicap or a 3/4 one. Or that the TM @ Ryton is the same one!

Btw 51 x 0.1 could achieve 11 to 17 without the likes of A/R.


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## richart (May 14, 2014)

Looks like he is on for about 43 points. Will he get his handicap cut at his club for the two sub par rounds ?


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## Fish (May 14, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Btw 51 x 0.1 could achieve 11 to 17 without the likes of A/R.
		
Click to expand...

I know it could, that's why I said '*at a flat rate*'. Stop always correcting people or you'll go back on ignore.


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## Fish (May 14, 2014)

llewell71 said:



			19 points back 9 I would say it's slightly harder although tom shot 23 back 9 round 1
		
Click to expand...

He's got 15 now with 3 holes to play so he's going to come-in between 41-44 unless he throws some more pars (10 so far) and 3 pointers into the mix!

Edit:  He's obviously embarrassed and decided to chuck a 1 pointer in


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			...Stop always correcting people or you'll go back on ignore.
		
Click to expand...

It's no skin off my nose if you do, so feel free! I'm amused that a) you consider it a threat; b) you announce it; and c) you keep taking me off it!


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			Edit:  He's obviously embarrassed and decided to chuck a 1 pointer in 

Click to expand...

Nope! Not embarrassed at all! Birdies the 194 metre (214-ish yd) SI9 17th! :rofl:


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## Fish (May 14, 2014)

Fish said:



			He's got 15 now with 3 holes to play so he's going to come-in between 41-44 unless he throws some more pars (10 so far) and 3 pointers into the mix!

Edit:  He's obviously embarrassed and decided to chuck a 1 pointer in 

Click to expand...

Well he's followed that 1 pointer up with a birdie for 4 points to restore order :rofl:

So a 17 handicapper with 10 pars and 1 birdie and still 1 hole to play sitting on 43 points, its criminal :angry:


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## mashleyR7 (May 14, 2014)

How many times has he been to the Dubai final and won or come in a decent place?


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## richart (May 14, 2014)

Gutted for him, he has blobbed the last. A mere 43 points.


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

richart said:



			Gutted for him, he has blobbed the last. A mere 43 points.

Click to expand...

No he didn't! They hadn't played/finished it when you looked - so showed a white '0'. 6 for 2 and 45pts Gross 80! 

Off 17! 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 14, 2014)

A 4 pointer and 10 3 pointers.

Congratulations Tom Muldoon.....what a fine player you are. 

Wishing you the best of luck in your quest to get down to single figures, I'm sure you are good enough to do so


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## bluewolf (May 14, 2014)

If only he could transfer this form to his home club competitions. He could easily be off 12 by the end of the season.


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## richart (May 14, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			No he didn't! They hadn't played/finished it when you looked - so showed a white '0'. 6 for 2 and 45pts Gross 80! 

Off 17! 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
		
Click to expand...

 Steady round then. Will he get cut though at his Club ?


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## richart (May 14, 2014)

drive4show said:



			A 4 pointer and 10 3 pointers.

Congratulations Tom Muldoon.....what a fine player you are. 

Wishing you the best of luck in your quest to get down to single figures, I'm sure you are good enough to do so  

Click to expand...

 Isn't his quest to get to 28 ?


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## mashleyR7 (May 14, 2014)

What does he win by winning? I've tried to find previous years results online but cant see any. Anyone know how many times he or others have been to the finals?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 14, 2014)

Don't know what the winner's prize is but a golf holiday to Dubai ain't bad for starters!


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## richart (May 14, 2014)

The course is 6,800 metres, 7,400 odd yards. Even if the ball flyers further you have got to hit it well. My tops would still go 100 yards on a good day. Wouldn't a 17 handicapper being hitting quite a few duffs that go no where ?


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## mashleyR7 (May 14, 2014)

That's what I thought, maybe just get to final then play not to win so not to bring to much attention to yourself.


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## llewell71 (May 14, 2014)

45 points! Good form that off 17! I'm sure he will like the glass trophy and gala evening tonight!


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## Foxholer (May 14, 2014)

mashleyR7 said:



			What does he win by winning? I've tried to find previous years results online but cant see any. Anyone know how many times he or others have been to the finals?
		
Click to expand...

I believe that's the first time he's got to the Finals - in Singles at least.

Don't think it's the first time he's been to Dubai though! Certainly not the first time he's won a nationwide golf tournament.


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## rickg (May 14, 2014)

8 over gross today....... .       Off 17........

When is something going to be done?

This is televised on Sky  isn't it? Seriously cannot wait to watch this one and the body language of his opponents. Will be interesting to see how the commentators handle it.....


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## chrisd (May 14, 2014)

richart said:



 Steady round then. Will he get cut though at his Club ?
		
Click to expand...

I dispair at the handicapping system for games played away from the home club. He'll no more get cut than Mashley and I did after H4H West Hill. We put the cards in and it was decided that it was non qualifying and despite putting out everything etc etc the 8.8 it would have given me - it wasn't to be. Why would a Secretary be unduly worried about someone who rarely plays a comp on his home course?


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## fundy (May 15, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I dispair at the handicapping system for games played away from the home club. He'll no more get cut than Mashley and I did after H4H West Hill. We put the cards in and it was decided that it was non qualifying and despite putting out everything etc etc the 8.8 it would have given me - it wasn't to be. *Why would a Secretary be unduly worried about someone who rarely plays a comp on his home course?*

Click to expand...

I expect he would have heard that a member of his club had won several national comps and would've looked at the scores he has been shooting in these comps. At this point as handicap secretary I would expect him at best to have been exceptionally embarassed at having the wool pulled over his eyes


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## fundy (May 15, 2014)

rickg said:



			8 over gross today....... .       Off 17........

When is something going to be done?

This is televised on Sky  isn't it? Seriously cannot wait to watch this one and the body language of his opponents. Will be interesting to see how the commentators handle it.....
		
Click to expand...

well the organisers didnt seem to want to answer any tweets


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## Fish (May 15, 2014)

fundy said:



			well the organisers didnt seem to want to answer any tweets
		
Click to expand...

I suppose as long as numbers entering from the outset are not falling they are not overly bothered, its money & marketing and the golf and its integrity comes a poor third!


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## c1973 (May 15, 2014)

I'd rather finish last with an honest handicap to be perfectly honest. 

Assuming the guy is protecting his handicap (he may have just played a blinder  ) and is well known for doing so I'd refuse to compete against him. I'm assuming he's not a high 'capper that's improving faster than the system can track. Also, it's my belief that people who are found to be protecting their handicap should be barred from comps and kicked out their club/union. Dishonesty in sport (and life in general) is something I really can't stand.

Surely his local union must be aware of this? Can they enforce cuts without the clubs say so? More importantly,how can you look fellow competitors/members in the eye if that's your modus operandi?


Bit of a rant there, sorry.


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## chrisd (May 15, 2014)

Fish said:



			I suppose as long as numbers entering from the outset are not falling they are not overly bothered, its money & marketing and the golf and its integrity comes a poor third!
		
Click to expand...

Pretty accurate assessment I'd say Robin!


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## Fish (May 15, 2014)

c1973 said:



			I'd rather finish last with an honest handicap to be perfectly honest. 

Assuming the guy is protecting his handicap (he may have just played a blinder  ) and is well known for doing so I'd refuse to compete against him. I'm assuming he's not a high 'capper that's improving faster than the system can track. Also, it's my belief that people who are found to be protecting their handicap should be barred from comps and kicked out their club/union. Dishonesty in sport (and life in general) is something I really can't stand.

Surely his local union must be aware of this? Can they enforce cuts without the clubs say so? More importantly,how can you look fellow competitors/members in the eye if that's your modus operandi?


Bit of a rant there, sorry. 

Click to expand...

Stone him, Thwow him to the gwound, I have a very good friend called biggus dickus :rofl:


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## rickg (May 15, 2014)

There are 15 comments against his victory announcement on the GolfCare Facebook page............you can guess what they are all saying.......

https://www.facebook.com/matchplaychampionship?ref=stream&hc_location=stream


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## c1973 (May 15, 2014)

Fish said:



			Stone him, Thwow him to the gwound, I have a very good friend called biggus dickus :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

What is your name Jew?

Brian, sir.

Bwian?

Er, no, Brian.

:rofl: Class.


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## patricks148 (May 15, 2014)

Is this the guy they kept calling the short game wizzard on the trilby tour ?

Terrible swing though


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## Fish (May 15, 2014)

Wow, I reckon this is kicking up a little more dust and dirt than the organisers woudl like!

** 2011 Irish champion in the trilby tour playing off 13, howdidido winner thrashing everyone. 5 years ago playing off 11 now off 17 winning the singles with a final days round of 45 points 9 under his handicap. With people like him in this competition puts you off entering. sleep well maybe there is another competition you can enter for a free holiday next year. maybe these sort of events should have a bandits list to stop them entering

** Should be thrown in prison for fraud!!!

** You may have won the comp, but you have ruined your name!

** 45 points - turn it in, not smiling much because he's too embarrassed, you could buy a trophy like that for Â£15 and get it engraved if it meant that much, definitely a reason not to enter, same as trilby off 3/4 and guys returning 43+ points, same ones every year

** Interesting! It seems this tournament has double standards! They didn't allow last years champ to enter so I've seen on some threads who played off 6 and won with 30, 28,38 points! I'm sure that guy is now laughing as they now have a tournament with no integrity!

** I qualified for the regional finals where there were 6 places to the finals. I was told by a lad on the practise day that we were playing for 4 places as Tom and another lad were dead certs for winning it. I wouldn't enter again to be honest, everyone do not enter this comp and go enter league to Dubai who banned him. I googled his name the day before the regionals and there were lots of 'Cheat' threads from different golf forums. If the organisers were keen to ban cheats it wouldn't of taken more than 2mins to find this out.

** Two things required here. Winner needs his handicap suspended for 12 months and investigated by GUI. Secondly the handicap secretary of his home club should be removed and sanctioned for allowing this to happen.

** there is a lot of stuff flying around about it on-line LTdubai taking a stance on it which is great hope other comps do as well or all national knock outs come a joke. Can't be hard to have scores sent straight back to home club in this modern world now a days. Only way to stop it he must play a lot of rounds in all this different comps that are not handicap qualifiers... True golfers and gentleman know the game and winning feeling.

** Why doesn't his home club general play him! He's obviously got an inaccurate handicap. 45 points on the Els course!? Ridiculous !

** Nothing new there then

** he beat me in last match before qualifier in England, he was just back from the Algarve where him and his partner had just won a pairs competition run by howdidido. bit of a tour golfer I think !!

** Looks like a really great event was thinking about entering now not sure due these people. League to Dubai doing the right thing and banning them or DQ them.

** really interested in your comment ref LTDubai as me and a mate have entered it this year. How do you mean they have banned him. I entered the trilby tour last year and Tom showed up at 4 diff events and yes overheard him saying his handicap had gone up and was once off 11. How are LTD combating this however it is good to know for sure

** 3 qualifying comps p/a is a joke. CONGU need to sort this and make the number more like 7 or 8.

** I once played a guy in this comp off 17. When I asked why he carried 4 wedges, he said, " I hit that one 87 yards, that one 101, that one 114 and that one 126". We shook hands on 15, losing 4&3.

** Tom Muldoon is a popular name of Mexican origin!!! Met him at Trilby Tour event 4 years ago, his golf must of been crap since then because his 'handicap' is 5 shots higher now!!!!! #banhim

** It's a real shame people do this. I've only good things to say about this completion having qualified in 2011. I suspect the guys who run it will be horrified about the negative comments as they do everything possible to weed out the cheats. I'm certain some rule changes will be in place for next year to counter this but if you put in 3 moody cards in 12 months you are congu legal!

** I had the trip of a lifetime and will enter again for the coming year with our new much LOWER handicaps!

** His home club is in south Ireland but play in the north Ireland Region

** Match play is in on it with him he never return any cards to his club last year


Strong opinions above which must be being read and seen by the organisers and even governing bodies, brings the whole game into disrepute IMO.


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## NST (May 15, 2014)

So am I right to think if his handicap has increased from 11 to 17, he must have had 60 x 0.1 increases? But at the same time has managed to play well in non qualifying events at the same time.


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## Fish (May 15, 2014)

NST said:



			So am I right to think if his handicap has increased from 11 to 17, he must have had 60 x 0.1 increases? But at the same time has managed to play well in non qualifying events at the same time.
		
Click to expand...

Potentially anything between 50 & 60 (11.4 - 16.5) but yes, your right, and what is strange is the constant referrals to him only putting in 3 cards a year, if so, that should have taken him over 16 years to go from 11 to 17, but as you state, if he has played lots of qualifiers, how can he play so badly over the last few years to go up 6 shots only to dominate in pairs and single national comps?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2014)

I thought he was only 11 on the Trilby Tour and that his official club handicap was never that low ?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (May 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I thought he was only 11 on the Trilby Tour and that his official club handicap was never that low ?
		
Click to expand...

TT is 3/4 handicap, that could be the reason?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2014)

I'm guessing the person winning these comps doesn't really care as long as he wins - it's these sort of actions that taint this comps.

Hasn't he also won TT as well ?!


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## rickg (May 15, 2014)

Golfcare have made an official statement on their Facebook page in response to the many comments 
*
"As organisers of the event and having read with interest the comments regarding questionable handicaps we would like to respond to peopleâ€™s concerns.

In a national competition such as ours, we recognise that the most important thing is to uphold and preserve the integrity of the event. We make strenuous efforts at all stages to ensure the efficacy of the competitorsâ€™ handicaps. 

Firstly, we do not accept entries from individuals who have previously entered the event and who have been suspected of having an inaccurate handicap.

If we receive complaints throughout the qualifying rounds, we always make contact with the relevant golf club to check the validity of a playerâ€™s handicap. If we find irregularities, then the individual is disqualified immediately and banned from entering in future years.

We check and verify all handicaps at the Regional Final stage of the Championship. We do this by checking up to date handicap certificates, asking players to bring along evidence that their handicap was â€˜activeâ€™ at the time of entering the competition as well as requesting that they provide a handicap record since the start of the Championship that year. For anyone who qualifies for the Grand Final, we then contact their golf club, again to check and verify all handicaps. In certain circumstances, we have gone as far as contacting the golf unions directly where there has been cause for concern. 

With over 6,000 entries, it is impossible to police everyone who enters. This is ultimately the responsibility of the playersâ€™ golf clubs, golf unions and governing bodies. 

We will take on board everyoneâ€™s comments and will work with other national golf competitions to share best practice and to help identify any handicapping issues.

At the end of the day, golf is about honesty and integrity. Should any individual who enters the Matchplay Championship decide to circumvent these characteristics, that is a great shame.

Finally, it should be noted that there are actually 40 winners, not just the five that pick up a trophy as the actual prize of our event is an amazing golfing holiday of a lifetime in Dubai.*"


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## rickg (May 15, 2014)

Sounds like they did everything except google his name, which would have let them know what everyone else knows.....


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## c1973 (May 15, 2014)

Googled him earlier, he sure seems to win a great deal. He should write a book on how to perform when it matters, he definitely peaks when it matters.

On a serious note, does it make the competitive golfers on here think twice about entering these 'big ticket' tournaments?


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## bluewolf (May 15, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Googled him earlier, he sure seems to win a great deal. He should write a book on how to perform when it matters, he definitely peaks when it matters.

On a serious note, does it make the competitive golfers on here think twice about entering these 'big ticket' tournaments?
		
Click to expand...

i won't be entering comps like this precisely because of people like this.


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## rickg (May 15, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			i won't be entering comps like this precisely because of people like this.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely.....I entered them all last year and this year I haven't entered any....


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2014)

As word spreads less and less people will enter these comps forcing the organisers to do something !


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## bluewolf (May 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As word spreads less and less people will enter these comps forcing the organisers to do something !
		
Click to expand...

I don't think the organisers will be too bothered unless the Sponsors get involved. Maybe a GM campaign is in order.


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## chrisd (May 15, 2014)

I cancelled this post


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2014)

Thought he was a member of a club in Ireland somewhere ?


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## chrisd (May 15, 2014)

I cancelled this post


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## quinn (May 15, 2014)

​


chrisd said:



			I cancelled this post
		
Click to expand...

Played the forest of Arden yesterday and looks like the trilby tour is paying a visit this year, if he gets 40 points round there something's definitely not right.


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## Hobbit (May 15, 2014)

Is it safe to say something a little counter to a lot of posts here?

I play pretty much every week, and enter every Q comp I can fit in - at least 2 a month.

Nov 38pts, 38pts, 40pts.
Sept 39pts, 38pts (Oct)43pts.
Aug(inc the Cooden trip) 42pts, 37pts, 37pts.

Started August off 6 and finished Oct off 4. It is possible for golfers to go on a good run and post some great scores... I've played pretty much every week for 40+ years, and always aimed to shoot as low as possible. My ambition has always been get the handicap as low as possible, and let the winning take care of itself.

Maybe he's a bandit, but maybe he isn't. A lynch mob might just be an injustice...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2014)

The problem is hobbit he has been going on great runs in big national comps for a number of years now and his handicap hasn't changed ( May have actually increased ) 

This appears to be more than just a couple months of good golf and getting cut as a result.

His ambition appears to be more about winning these comps as opposed to reducing his handicap


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## chrisd (May 15, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Is it safe to say something a little counter to a lot of posts here?

I play pretty much every week, and enter every Q comp I can fit in - at least 2 a month.

Nov 38pts, 38pts, 40pts.
Sept 39pts, 38pts (Oct)43pts.
Aug(inc the Cooden trip) 42pts, 37pts, 37pts.

Started August off 6 and finished Oct off 4. It is possible for golfers to go on a good run and post some great scores... I've played pretty much every week for 40+ years, and always aimed to shoot as low as possible. My ambition has always been get the handicap as low as possible, and let the winning take care of itself.

Maybe he's a bandit, but maybe he isn't. A lynch mob might just be an injustice...
		
Click to expand...


The thing is Hobbit, your post also proves why a lynch mob may not be altogether wrong!


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## Hobbit (May 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The problem is hobbit he has been going on great runs in big national comps for a number of years now and his handicap hasn't changed ( May have actually increased ) 

This appears to be more than just a couple months of good golf and getting cut as a result.

His ambition appears to be more about winning these comps as opposed to reducing his handicap
		
Click to expand...

You're not wrong. I recognise one of the guys on there, and know what his reputation is. I know that players actually withdraw after entering if they hear he's entered. So, equally, you're not wrong Phil.



chrisd said:



			The thing is Hobbit, your post also proves why a lynch mob may not be altogether wrong!
		
Click to expand...

Hope you don't mean this for me Chris. My golf is as honest as the day is long! As an ex-handicaps Chairman I've dealt with this sort of thing in the past, and it wasn't pleasant.


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## chrisd (May 15, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Hope you don't mean this for me Chris. My golf is as honest as the day is long! As an ex-handicaps Chairman I've dealt with this sort of thing in the past, and it wasn't pleasant.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely the opposite Hobbit. You play in every qualifying club comp and leave yourself at the mercy of the handicapping system so if OUR FRIEND doesn't do that, but enters competitions where a current, up to date and RELEVENT handicap isn't needed to win a prize that we would all dream of, then a lynch mob may be the only answer


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## 3565 (May 15, 2014)

I think he was in the single Matchplay finals in Dubai in 2012, so it's not that they don't know him.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 15, 2014)

I wonder if Mr Hunt will allow him in the TT.


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## LIG (May 15, 2014)

rickg said:



			Golfcare have made an official statement on their Facebook page in response to the many comments 
*
"As organisers of the event and having read with interest the comments regarding questionable handicaps we would like to respond to peopleâ€™s concerns.

In a national competition such as ours, we recognise that the most important thing is to uphold and preserve the integrity of the event. We make strenuous efforts at all stages to ensure the efficacy of the competitorsâ€™ handicaps. 

Firstly, we do not accept entries from individuals who have previously entered the event and who have been suspected of having an inaccurate handicap.

If we receive complaints throughout the qualifying rounds, we always make contact with the relevant golf club to check the validity of a playerâ€™s handicap. If we find irregularities, then the individual is disqualified immediately and banned from entering in future years.

We check and verify all handicaps at the Regional Final stage of the Championship. We do this by checking up to date handicap certificates, asking players to bring along evidence that their handicap was â€˜activeâ€™ at the time of entering the competition as well as requesting that they provide a handicap record since the start of the Championship that year. For anyone who qualifies for the Grand Final, we then contact their golf club, again to check and verify all handicaps. In certain circumstances, we have gone as far as contacting the golf unions directly where there has been cause for concern. 

With over 6,000 entries, it is impossible to police everyone who enters. This is ultimately the responsibility of the playersâ€™ golf clubs, golf unions and governing bodies. 

We will take on board everyoneâ€™s comments and will work with other national golf competitions to share best practice and to help identify any handicapping issues.

At the end of the day, golf is about honesty and integrity. Should any individual who enters the Matchplay Championship decide to circumvent these characteristics, that is a great shame.

Finally, it should be noted that there are actually 40 winners, not just the five that pick up a trophy as the actual prize of our event is an amazing golfing holiday of a lifetime in Dubai.*"
		
Click to expand...




rickg said:



			Sounds like they did everything except google his name, which would have let them know what everyone else knows.....
		
Click to expand...

Not too sure that they "did everything". 

A very carefully worded statement... and the get out clause is para 6....
"_With over 6,000 entries,_* it is impossible to police everyone *_who enters.This is *ultimately* *the*_* responsibility of *_the playersâ€™ _*golf clubs, golf  unions and governing bodies.*  "


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## chrisd (May 16, 2014)

LIG said:



			Not too sure that they "did everything". 

A very carefully worded statement... and the get out clause is para 6....
"_With over 6,000 entries,_* it is impossible to police everyone *_who enters.This is *ultimately* *the*_* responsibility of *_the playersâ€™ _*golf clubs, golf  unions and governing bodies.*  "
		
Click to expand...

It's easy, you put a clause in to say that handicaps will be scrutinised after a certain point, so that, say, all regional winners will be checked and if it's found that they appear to be serial winners then further proof of their handicap record will be requested. Now someone who worded a statement as careful as theirs is surely capable of finding the right wording!

Oh ! They do say that ..... Mmmmmm do I believe them ??


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## rickg (May 21, 2014)

GolfCare Matchplay have been listening to all the complaints on Forums,  twitter, Facebook etc and have introduced Clause 6 into their rules of competition........

*6. To help preserve the integrity of The Matchplay Championship, the organisersâ€™ reserve the right to disqualify a player or players from the tournament (in any category) in the event that the tournament committee determines, in its absolute discretion, that a playerâ€™s handicap is inaccurate (ie. higher) when compared with their actual playing ability. The tournament committee will determine whether a playerâ€™s handicap is inaccurate by taking into consideration any or all of the following:

1) handicap history review;
2) previous tournament/competition results;
3) current sanctions from any other national golf tournaments or from any County or National golf administrative bodies; 
4) judgement on the relevance of completed competitions within the past 12 months; 
5) complaints which are in the public domain and any other handicap inconsistencies that are brought to our attention. 

Under this rule, if the tournament committee decides that a player or players should be disqualified from the tournament, the player or players will be notified accordingly and the tournament committeeâ€™s decision will be final. Any decision is totally discretionary and no negotiation or dialogue will be entered into. In the event of one of the above decisions being enforced then the player or players will be offered a full refund of their entry fee should they so wish.*

Fair play and a welcome addition, albeit too late, which needs to be copied by all the other national comps......it's not perfect but it shows they have taken it seriously.


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## 3565 (May 21, 2014)

Yeah bit too late now, damage is done but it was fun reading both single and pairs post on their Facebook page kicking off.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2014)

rickg said:



			GolfCare Matchplay have been listening to all the complaints on Forums,  twitter, Facebook etc and have introduced Clause 6 into their rules of competition........

*6. To help preserve the integrity of The Matchplay Championship, the organisersâ€™ reserve the right to disqualify a player or players from the tournament (in any category) in the event that the tournament committee determines, in its absolute discretion, that a playerâ€™s handicap is inaccurate (ie. higher) when compared with their actual playing ability. The tournament committee will determine whether a playerâ€™s handicap is inaccurate by taking into consideration any or all of the following:

1) handicap history review;
2) previous tournament/competition results;
3) current sanctions from any other national golf tournaments or from any County or National golf administrative bodies; 
4) judgement on the relevance of completed competitions within the past 12 months; 
5) complaints which are in the public domain and any other handicap inconsistencies that are brought to our attention. 

Under this rule, if the tournament committee decides that a player or players should be disqualified from the tournament, the player or players will be notified accordingly and the tournament committeeâ€™s decision will be final. Any decision is totally discretionary and no negotiation or dialogue will be entered into. In the event of one of the above decisions being enforced then the player or players will be offered a full refund of their entry fee should they so wish.*

Fair play and a welcome addition, albeit too late, which needs to be copied by all the other national comps......it's not perfect but it shows they have taken it seriously.
		
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Wonder what the Trilby Tour do about it ? 

Speaking to a mate who plays in it every year ( Hanbury Manor ) it appears that there was empty spaces in some of the areas this year and there was lots of talk about the player in this thread.


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## rickg (May 21, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wonder what the Trilby Tour do about it ? 

Speaking to a mate who plays in it every year ( Hanbury Manor ) it appears that there was empty spaces in some of the areas this year and there was lots of talk about the player in this thread.
		
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First time I've missed the TT in 4 years because of the protectors.......seeing some of the scores off 3/4 h/c, they don't do anything about it.....


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## 3565 (May 22, 2014)

rickg said:



			First time I've missed the TT in 4 years because of the protectors.......seeing some of the scores off 3/4 h/c, they don't do anything about it.....
		
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From what I gather from llewell71 on this forum think he stated that Mr Muldoon got a hc reduction from the TT last year to 11. Think this is where the confusion is coming from as it was a TT chop to 11 and it's not his actual hc. I'm also led to believe that llewell71 got chopped by the TT couple years ago. So by the looks of it they do do something about it?  Just a shame that with all these national comps available to play for the amateur that a minority is spoiling it for the majority.


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## chrisd (May 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			From what I gather from llewell71 on this forum think he stated that Mr Muldoon got a hc reduction from the TT last year to 11. Think this is where the confusion is coming from as it was a TT chop to 11 and it's not his actual hc. I'm also led to believe that llewell71 got chopped by the TT couple years ago. So by the looks of it they do do something about it?  Just a shame that with all these national comps available to play for the amateur that a minority is spoiling it for the majority.
		
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Yes but don't words like, horse, stable door, shut and bolted spring to mind. I applaud the fact that Golfcare are making an effort but sadly there will be plenty of other comps to enter where the organisers haven't considered the likelihood of this happening/ or don't care so long as they get a winner and loads of advertising for their product. Eventually the players will have no comps they can enter but, by then, they will have enjoyed many lovely (and expensive) free golf holidays at the expense of the fair guys who play off proper handicaps.


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## Doh (May 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			From what I gather from llewell71 on this forum think he stated that Mr Muldoon got a hc reduction from the TT last year to 11. Think this is where the confusion is coming from as it was a TT chop to 11 and it's not his actual hc. I'm also led to believe that llewell71 got chopped by the TT couple years ago. So by the looks of it they do do something about it?  Just a shame that with all these national comps available to play for the amateur that a minority is spoiling it for the majority.
		
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So that begs the question if the person we are talking about got cut by the TT on the evidence of his play why did he not inform his club by submitting his away cards to them.


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## llewell71 (May 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			From what I gather from llewell71 on this forum think he stated that Mr Muldoon got a hc reduction from the TT last year to 11. Think this is where the confusion is coming from as it was a TT chop to 11 and it's not his actual hc. I'm also led to believe that llewell71 got chopped by the TT couple years ago. So by the looks of it they do do something about it?  Just a shame that with all these national comps available to play for the amateur that a minority is spoiling it for the majority.
		
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The trilby tour cut many people for there comp but don't make it public, in fairness to the Tt anyone that is having a great amazing score after 9 there clubs are then called yet again, they do there utmost to be fair, but I guess if someone makes it there target and cards just three cards and play on comps and play badly on purpose then what can you so about that! Golf is about integrity and honesty, surely the aim is to get as low as possible after all we battle against the course not anyone in particular but with a higher handicap than people should have then it makes the game so much harder! 
Lets hope there is now a stake in the ground going forward all comps adjust to defeat the so called banditry! I'd be embarrassed if I was tom, I'm sure he is? Maybe he should go into hiding for a couple of years and come back off 28!!


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## rickg (Jun 17, 2014)

Golfcare Matchplay on SS4 at present, (again at 01:00) if you've missed it.

Mr M in action......


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## rickg (Jun 17, 2014)

Golfcare Matchplay on SS4 at present, (again at 01:00) if you've missed it.

Mr M in action......  just been described as the "short game wizard"


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## quinn (Jun 18, 2014)

rickg said:



			Golfcare Matchplay on SS4 at present, (again at 01:00) if you've missed it.

Mr M in action......  just been described as the "short game wizard" 

Click to expand...

Just watched it rick...6 birdies on the front 9 and a 4 pointer on the 18th. I'd be embarrassed to go in front of a camera after that, we all have a good round now and again but that's taking the piss.


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## mashleyR7 (Jun 18, 2014)

I saw his post match interview, it would be the 'proudest moment ever' if he won!


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## MendieGK (Oct 19, 2015)

Old thread I know but had to post this.

My mate played in the AG 9 hole golf championships at the belfry a few weeks ago. 

Guess who they beat in the semis - none other than Tom Muldoon. His handicap was 17

Seems nothing changes .


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			Old thread I know but had to post this.

My mate played in the AG 9 hole golf championships at the belfry a few weeks ago. 

Guess who they beat in the semis - none of the than Tom Muldoon. His handicap was 17

Seems nothing changes .
		
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He was on TT last week and they have him at 11 ?!


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## MendieGK (Oct 19, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was on TT last week and they have him at 11 ?!
		
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Apparently be 100% played off 17.

What a joke


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 19, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			Apparently be 100% played off 17.

What a joke
		
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Maybe the TT have him off an unofficial HC - believe he still qualified


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 19, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He was on TT last week and they have him at 11 ?!
		
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Isn't TT off 3/4 so that would put him off 15 off full allowance


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## Foxy123 (Nov 16, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			Old thread I know but had to post this.My mate played in the AG 9 hole golf championships at the belfry a few weeks ago. Guess who they beat in the semis - none other than Tom Muldoon. His handicap was 17Seems nothing changes .
		
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They won again!!!  http://www.yourgolftravel.com/19th-...ut-how-it-all-panned-out-at-cornelia-diamond/Scored 48 points in the regional final to get to Turkey and then won the comp while in Turkey, where the prize was to play the Turkish Airlines Open Pro-Am.....guess what?? They won that too!! How do they get away with it?


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## rickg (Nov 16, 2015)

Foxy123 said:



			They won again!!!
		
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Lol....they've scored 48 points previously (2013), but that time they were DQ. Nearest score to theirs was 42


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## Region3 (Nov 16, 2015)

rickg said:



			Lol....they've scored 48 points previously (2013), but that time they were DQ. Nearest score to theirs was 42

View attachment 17648


View attachment 17649

Click to expand...

So what's the story behind the DQ?

Pic isn't great, but it looks like rule 3-4 which is failure to comply with a rule.

Anyone know?


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## Region3 (Nov 16, 2015)

They ought to change the words "trip of a lifetime" in the marketing spiel for these things to "annual jolly".


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## Crow (Nov 16, 2015)

Region3 said:



			They ought to change the words "trip of a lifetime" in the marketing spiel for these things to "annual jolly".
		
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I just Googled "Tom Muldoon golf", "one of many annual jollies" might be closer to the truth.


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## louise_a (Nov 16, 2015)

I posted about picking TM and his partner out as winners when we were at the same venue for the Ladies version where my partner and I won our trip to Portugal. Whilst over there the organisers told us that other contestants for the men's event had queried his handicap.
In fairness to YGT, they contacted his club and they confirmed his handicap. We noticed that the club he had given was an away course for him and we tracked down his home course which YGT also contacted and they too confirmed his handicap. So there was not a lot the organisers could do even though they were suspicious. We even watched the TT show where him and his partner were playing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 16, 2015)

louise_a said:



			I posted about picking TM and his partner out as winners when we were at the same venue for the Ladies version where my partner and I won our trip to Portugal. Whilst over there the organisers told us that other contestants for the men's event had queried his handicap.
In fairness to YGT, they contacted his club and they confirmed his handicap. We noticed that the club he had given was an away course for him and we tracked down his home course which YGT also contacted and they too confirmed his handicap. So there was not a lot the organisers could do even though they were suspicious. We even watched the TT show where him and his partner were playing.
		
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Three qualifing cards per year to satisfy active HC then on the road picking up the prizes in the Non Q's 

Perfect example of the need to increase the amount of qualifiers needed to keep active


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## Region3 (Nov 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Perfect example of the need to increase the amount of qualifiers needed to keep active
		
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I don't see how that will help. Just a few more rounds not doing anything special.

What's needed is a way to ensure players do their best in the qualifiers they play in.

Impossible, unmanageable and unenforceable. Tilt, game over.

Sad really.


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## Mitchell89 (Nov 17, 2015)

If the system was changed so that in team events everyone keeps an individual score and every tournament it gets submitted, including match play. This would stop long term banditry. It would be long winded though and would never happen.


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## rickg (Nov 17, 2015)

Mitchell89 said:



			If the system was changed so that in team events everyone keeps an individual score and every tournament it gets submitted, including match play. This would stop long term banditry. It would be long winded though and would never happen.
		
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It doesn't even need to be that complicated....a simple check of Google by he organisers would tell them all they needed to know.
After I contacted the Golf Care Matchplay organisers and told them why I was withdrawing from their tournament, and after they took on board other competitors concerns, they really thought about it and at least came up with a new clause that gave them the discretion to exclude someone, who in their opinion, their playing ability was much better than their handicap suggested. (I underlined the pertinent bit). It's just a shame none of the other comps have followed suite, and for me even more disappointing that none of golfs governing bodies have decided to intervene.
It really does leave a sour taste and leaves you wondering why they allow the minority to tarnish the game of golf and all its supposed to stand for.

*6. To help preserve the integrity of The Matchplay Championship, the organisersâ€™ reserve the right to disqualify a player or players from the tournament (in any category) in the event that the tournament committee determines, in its absolute discretion, that a playerâ€™s handicap is inaccurate (ie. higher) when compared with their actual playing ability.The tournament committee will determine whether a playerâ€™s handicap is inaccurate by taking into consideration any or all of the following:

1) handicap history review;
2) previous tournament/competition results;
3) current sanctions from any other national golf tournaments or from any County or National golf administrative bodies; 
4) judgement on the relevance of completed competitions within the past 12 months; 
5) complaints which are in the public domain and any other handicap inconsistencies that are brought to our attention. 

Under this rule, if the tournament committee decides that a player or players should be disqualified from the tournament, the player or players will be notified accordingly and the tournament committeeâ€™s decision will be final. Any decision is totally discretionary and no negotiation or dialogue will be entered into. In the event of one of the above decisions being enforced then the player or players will be offered a full refund of their entry fee should they so wish.*


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## Mitchell89 (Nov 17, 2015)

Well that is a very grey area and it is hard to judge if people have done anything wrong. The case above looks quite clear cut but other golfers might be facing disqualification for a run of good form. Where will the line be drawn?

Instead if you keep individual scores it's black and white. E.g in a 4bbb competition team A scores 43 points. Player 1 had 40 points, player 2 had 30. Their handicaps can be adjusted accordingly. 

In a match that finishes early a new ratio will have to be drawn up. E.g team 2 wins 4 and 3. Player 1 has 30 points through 15. Player 2 has 35. This would be changed to 36 points for player 1 and 42 points for player 2.


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## MendieGK (Nov 17, 2015)

Mitchell89 said:



			Well that is a very grey area and it is hard to judge if people have done anything wrong. The case above looks quite clear cut but other golfers might be facing disqualification for a run of good form. Where will the line be drawn?

Instead if you keep individual scores it's black and white. E.g in a 4bbb competition team A scores 43 points. Player 1 had 40 points, player 2 had 30. Their handicaps can be adjusted accordingly. 

In a match that finishes early a new ratio will have to be drawn up. E.g team 2 wins 4 and 3. Player 1 has 30 points through 15. Player 2 has 35. This would be changed to 36 points for player 1 and 42 points for player 2.
		
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This is similar to the US system, every single round counts. However it is flawed, due to the allowance of gimmes etc

Key to dealing with these 'cheats' is to not play in these events that offer 'a pot of gold at the end'


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## Imurg (Nov 17, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			This is similar to the US system, every single round counts. However it is flawed, due to the allowance of gimmes etc

Key to dealing with these 'cheats' is to not play in these events that offer 'a pot of gold at the end'
		
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Or, simply, vastly reduce the prizes on offer.
Competitive golfers will still want to play even if the prize is a free round..
Fact of life - the bigger the prize, the more cheats you get


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			I don't see how that will help. Just a few more rounds not doing anything special.

What's needed is a way to ensure players do their best in the qualifiers they play in.

Impossible, unmanageable and unenforceable. Tilt, game over.

Sad really.
		
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Indont know what can be done 

It's clear he and others are only interested in these events and manufacturing the HC to give them the best chance to win


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## patricks148 (Nov 17, 2015)

whats wrong with making all these events Qualifying?


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## louise_a (Nov 17, 2015)

Playing more qualifiers only works if people always try to play their best,  A guy I played in the Nike last season, played in 2 or 3 a week, he raised his handicap by 3 shots in a relatively short period of time.

There needs to be some way of taking the non qualifiers, pairs etc into account.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 17, 2015)

louise_a said:



			Playing more qualifiers only works if people always try to play their best,  A guy I played in the Nike last season, played in 2 or 3 a week, he raised his handicap by 3 shots in a relatively short period of time.

There needs to be some way of taking the non qualifiers, pairs etc into account.
		
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Always going to be very very hard to adjust HC based on 4BBB 

The singles event can be qualifiers bit they are match play


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## Foxholer (Nov 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Three qualifing cards per year to satisfy active HC then on the road picking up the prizes in the Non Q's 

Perfect example of the need to increase the amount of qualifiers needed to keep active
		
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Please explain why/how you think this will help!


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## Qwerty (Nov 17, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			whats wrong with making all these events Qualifying?
		
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I can't see any reason not too.

Cut them after every round and if if required hit them with an ESR.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 17, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			I can't see any reason not too.

Cut them after every round and if if required hit them with an ESR.
		
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Most of them are pairs and matchplay - how can you cut from it ?

Edit: Apologies didn't mean for it to sound so blunt


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## Qwerty (Nov 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most of them are pairs and matchplay - how can you cut from it ?

Edit: Apologies didn't mean for it to sound so blunt
		
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True. You can't can you. Well not officially anyway.

Did someone mention he had 6 birdies in 9 holes off 17. I don't know if Gross or nett. 

Who would be responsible for keeping an eye on these Events? EGU?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 17, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			True. You can't can you. Well not officially anyway.

Did someone mention he had 6 birdies in 9 holes off 17. I don't know if Gross or nett. 

Who would be responsible for keeping an eye on these Events? EGU?
		
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His own club I guess 

When ever I do a HC review I find out about any comps like this and will then adjust if they have done well


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## Duckster (Nov 17, 2015)

Doesn't the R&A limit what an Amateur golfer can win to being Â£500 in any one competition?  If so, then a holiday to Dubai or the like is way over that.

If it is over Â£500, then you can take the prize but then have to class yourself as a pro.  Problem solved.


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## patricks148 (Nov 17, 2015)

Qwerty said:



			I can't see any reason not too.

Cut them after every round and if if required hit them with an ESR.
		
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just read though and the knock out stages are indeed match play, but it looks like the finals are all stableford... which seems a strange final for what is supposed to be a knock out even.

I noticed someone mentioned that golf is a game of integrity...... so what do you do when you get people who have none start these shenanigans?


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## Jates12 (Nov 17, 2015)

Duckster said:



			Doesn't the R&A limit what an Amateur golfer can win to being Â£500 in any one competition?  If so, then a holiday to Dubai or the like is way over that.

If it is over Â£500, then you can take the prize but then have to class yourself as a pro.  Problem solved.
		
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I would assume that its a cash prize of Â£500. Not value. Otherwise these competitions wouldnt be allowed by the EGU to be classed as Am comps.


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## Region3 (Nov 17, 2015)

A bit ham fisted maybe, and not really addressing the true issue, but an easy way round it would be to have a condition of entry like "nobody who has reached the finals in the last 5 years is allowed to enter".

Wouldn't put me off entering knowing that if I won a free week golfing in Turkey or Dubai I wouldn't get in again for a while.


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## Jates12 (Nov 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			A bit ham fisted maybe, and not really addressing the true issue, but an easy way round it would be to have a condition of entry like "nobody who has reached the finals in the last 5 years is allowed to enter".

Wouldn't put me off entering knowing that if I won a free week golfing in Turkey or Dubai I wouldn't get in again for a while.
		
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Wouldnt people want to defend their title though?


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## Duckster (Nov 17, 2015)

Jates12 said:



			I would assume that its a cash prize of Â£500. Not value. Otherwise these competitions wouldnt be allowed by the EGU to be classed as Am comps.
		
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http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2012/January/Amateur-Prizes.aspx

"Prize Limit

An amateur golfer may accept a prize or prize voucher of retail value no greater than Â£500"

I read that as if it's worth more than Â£500 then it's not acceptable.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 17, 2015)

Duckster said:



			Doesn't the R&A limit what an Amateur golfer can win to being Â£500 in any one competition?  If so, then a holiday to Dubai or the like is way over that.

If it is over Â£500, then you can take the prize but then have to class yourself as a pro.  Problem solved.
		
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They will find a way to suggest the prizes are worth less than that etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			A bit ham fisted maybe, and not really addressing the true issue, but an easy way round it would be to have a condition of entry like "nobody who has reached the finals in the last 5 years is allowed to enter".

Wouldn't put me off entering knowing that if I won a free week golfing in Turkey or Dubai I wouldn't get in again for a while.
		
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Again a good idea and would IMO reduce the professional prize hunters but the organisers know some won't enter it which then reduces their profit


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## Duckster (Nov 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They will find a way to suggest the prizes are worth less than that etc
		
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Just looked into it - there's an exception (there always is.....).  4-2g which allows:

"Rule 4-2g permits an amateur golfer to accept expenses, not exceeding those actually incurred, to take
part in a handicap individual or handicap team event, provided the event has received the necessary
annual approval. "

There's quite a bit more, but so long as they have approval before running the comp, then the holiday prize can be granted.

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/...ts/2011/2012Rules2/RevisedDecisionsMinor.ashx


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## Norrin Radd (Nov 17, 2015)

Â£500 isnt a lot is it ,im an angler first golfer second ,and there are no proffessional anglers other than a very small number who are sponsored by the tackle companys,,we can fish for prizes that are way beyond what you would think .
try Â£50,000 for winning a competition ,or Â£30.000 for another ,these guys that have won these comps are not pro`s they all have normal jobs and are classed as amateurs.
so why only Â£500 for golf?


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## Cheifi0 (Nov 17, 2015)

The poacher said:



			Â£500 isnt a lot is it ,im an angler first golfer second ,and there are no proffessional anglers other than a very small number who are sponsored by the tackle companys,,we can fish for prizes that are way beyond what you would think .
try Â£50,000 for winning a competition ,or Â£30.000 for another ,these guys that have won these comps are not pro`s they all have normal jobs and are classed as amateurs.
so why only Â£500 for golf?
		
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I think it's mainly because they are handicapped competitions and your handicap is essentially self policed and there is a lot of scope for manipulating the system, as has been shown by this thread.  Bigger prizes means it's more likely people will be tempted to cheat.  This could also be done by cheating on the course in an actual event.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 17, 2015)

Duckster said:



http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2012/January/Amateur-Prizes.aspx

"Prize Limit

An amateur golfer may accept a prize or prize voucher of retail value no greater than Â£500"

I read that as if it's worth more than Â£500 then it's not acceptable.
		
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Maybe they get round it by hosting the finals abroad which technically isn't a prize, it's just an expenses paid trip to the venue. What does the actual winner get?

EDIT: just seen post #196


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## Smiffy (Nov 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			An easy way round it would be to have a condition of entry like "nobody who has reached the finals in the last 5 years is allowed to enter".
		
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A much easier way round it is to have anybody who comes in with 40 points kneecapped.


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## Region3 (Nov 17, 2015)

I've just been reading the L2D T&C's, and the last line says players who have reached the grand finals twice can only enter at the discretion of the tournament directors. Nice


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## Jates12 (Nov 17, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			A much easier way round it is to have anybody who comes in with 40 points kneecapped.
		
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:rofl:


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## Foxy123 (Dec 7, 2015)

Just watching his partner in crime Kevin Commins on Sky in the "world final" of Trilby Tour...these boys are good!!!


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## richart (Dec 7, 2015)

Love the way one of the finalists talks about 'we' I thought only Pro's talked that way.


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## MendieGK (Dec 8, 2015)

richart said:



			Love the way one of the finalists talks about 'we' I thought only Pro's talked that way.

Click to expand...

Mapped the greens with his caddy! &#128514;


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## Trini swinger (Dec 8, 2015)

Yes, i watched that last night. Of the four players who made the playoff, i was really routing for that "Abbs" guy. Think William Hunt did not like the fact he was a 'newbie  'Trilbyturdian' and that one of his 'leg-ends' would not take the prize. Even funnier was watching Couzins getting advice from 'short game wizard' Mom Toldhoon'!! lad with breaks all mapped out, what hand cranker he looked!!


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## 3565 (Dec 8, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			Mapped the greens with his caddy! &#128514;
		
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Yet you do aimpoint!!!!


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## MendieGK (Dec 8, 2015)

3565 said:



			Yet you do aimpoint!!!!
		
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That's exactly the reason I use aimpoint. 10secs read done. Not spending hours mapping the greens before


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## 3565 (Dec 8, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			That's exactly the reason I use aimpoint. 10secs read done. Not spending hours mapping the greens before
		
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If I play in a big event and on a course I don't know, in the practise round I will putt 2 balls from the front edge of the green to the centre and see which direction the ball falls to if any, then from the centre to the sides, look where the high point and low points are on the green and note them on the strokesaver. 

Is it necessary for me to do that when I do aimpoint, maybe not, but it's all extra info that I can refer to if I so wish. Like they say failure to prepare is preparing to fail and if it works for individuals who map out greens, like it does for Aimpointers and their methods over the normal green readers, then why not?


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## richart (Dec 8, 2015)

3565 said:



			If I play in a big event and on a course I don't know, in the practise round I will putt 2 balls from the front edge of the green to the centre and see which direction the ball falls to if any, then from the centre to the sides, look where the high point and low points are on the green and note them on the strokesaver. 

Is it necessary for me to do that when I do aimpoint, maybe not, but it's all extra info that I can refer to if I so wish. Like they say failure to prepare is preparing to fail and if it works for individuals who map out greens, like it does for Aimpointers and their methods over the normal green readers, then why not?
		
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These big events you mention. Is the practice round played on a closed course, or are there golfers behind waiting for you to get off the green ?


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## 3565 (Dec 8, 2015)

richart said:



			These big events you mention. Is the practice round played on a closed course, or are there golfers behind waiting for you to get off the green ?
		
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Nah, I got golfers waiting in the middle of the fairway twiddling their thumbs while I get my spirit level out and making notes on the percentage slope of the green. There's a lot of abuse that gets shouted out, just like on here.


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## MendieGK (Dec 9, 2015)

3565 said:



			If I play in a big event and on a course I don't know, in the practise round I will putt 2 balls from the front edge of the green to the centre and see which direction the ball falls to if any, then from the centre to the sides, look where the high point and low points are on the green and note them on the strokesaver. 

Is it necessary for me to do that when I do aimpoint, maybe not, but it's all extra info that I can refer to if I so wish. Like they say failure to prepare is preparing to fail and if it works for individuals who map out greens, like it does for Aimpointers and their methods over the normal green readers, then why not?
		
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I have no issue with preparation at all but it's not for a big event. It's for the trilby tour. Not the English Am or the  brabazon. They are big events.

The guy said he mapped the greens with his caddy. He plays in every trilby tour event obviously so he can get on TV


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## hovis (Dec 9, 2015)

Stuey01 said:



			Scoring is pretty poor. Only one guy under par off full handicap. Forest of Arden isn't that tough, given the thinly veiled banditry suggestions I'd have expected to see some really good scoring.
		
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The forest really doesn't handle rain well.  When its wet underfoot the course plays looooooong.   In the summer i play the 3rd driver,  hybrid.    Last week it was driver,  5 wood, 9 iron


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## 3565 (Dec 9, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			I have no issue with preparation at all but it's not for a big event. It's for the trilby tour. Not the English Am or the  brabazon. They are big events.

The guy said he mapped the greens with his caddy. He plays in every trilby tour event obviously so he can get on TV
		
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Maybe that is his English Am, Brabazon event for him. It's a golf comp all said n done. Maybe he does that kind of preparation cos he wants to or that's the way he is? Some players are competitive, some play for the fun. Each to their own, no right or wrong way is there!


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## shivas irons (Oct 29, 2016)

chrisd said:



			There is no such thing as a short game wizard off 17.

Especially one who always seems to clean up in the big comps, I know what I'd call him and wizard isnt the word!
		
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Theres a recent thread on Mr Muldoon but just saw this post from a few years back,seems Mr Muldoon's been at it for a while,but at least his handicapps come down .


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