# Jeremy Corbyn-Leadership quality?



## toyboy54 (Nov 26, 2019)

Just watched him being grilled by Andrew Neil on T.Vand despite may wanting to be inspired by him and Labour policies have came away being totally less than impressed with his inability to give a straight answer to any question asked and his total lack of personality/leadership quality.
So wanted to see him stand up and be quietly(but forceful)convincing when replying...you know...having some sense of conviction/presence...but all totally lacking!
Now in quandary as to who to vote for-was wanting to go for Labour(despite the plonker/lackey Leonard we have up here).

But Now?????
Jimbo


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## JamesR (Nov 26, 2019)

toyboy54 said:



			Just watched him being grilled by Andrew Neil on T.Vand despite may wanting to be inspired by him and Labour policies have came away being totally less than impressed with his inability to give a straight answer to any question asked and his total lack of personality/leadership quality.
So wanted to see him stand up and be quietly(but forceful)convincing when replying...you know...having some sense of conviction/presence...but all totally lacking!
Now in quandary as to who to vote for-was wanting to go for Labour(despite the plonker/lackey Leonard we have up here).

But Now?????
Jimbo
		
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You could vote Tory.
Iâ€™m sure Boris answering every question with â€œget Brexit doneâ€ will provide the conviction and presence you require.


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## jp5 (Nov 26, 2019)

Can't say he's any worse than any of the other leaders of late.


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## Imurg (Nov 26, 2019)

jp5 said:



			Can't say he's any worse than any of the other leaders of late.
		
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Not a very high bar though is it......


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## harpo_72 (Nov 26, 2019)

JamesR said:



			You could vote Tory.
Iâ€™m sure Boris answering every question with â€œget Brexit doneâ€ will provide the conviction and presence you require.
		
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Yes he will just shout that and everybody will think he is golden.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 26, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Not a very high bar though is it......

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I definitely couldnâ€™t limbo under  it


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2019)

Toyboy, i feel your pain. Won't be long before DFT comes along and says you have Jimmy Krankie.

You know what, we have a society that has food banks, women being robbed of pensions, shortage of houses, Police, NHS, Teachers on there arses. Armed forces slashed, unchecked immigration, thousands of unskilled EU migrants flooding the country. The Country itself being flooded through lack of spending, mega companies paying no tax. The bollox that is Brexit. etc etc bloody etc.
So why are the Tories running this country. Two words. Jeremy Corbyn. If you want to chuck another two words in Diane Abacus. They put the fear of god into joe public. The Majority of voters in this country are floating voters. Door Frae Toon is SNP through and through. Put a pig in a dress and she could lead the SNP. Well she did, but my point is there are the equivalent DFTs in Labour, Lib dems, Brexit Partys. There always will be, but its the floating voters that will put partys in power, and the floating voters see Jeremy Corbyn and the left wing Labour party as the worst of two evils. I am convinced that if Corbyn was not the leader of the labour party, we would not be having this election as Labour would already be in power.
As i see it, we will continue to see the Tories as the Major leading, lying party of this country. That will not change until Corbyn is gone after the next election, when the labour party can regroup under a middle of the rd leader. Until Labour change, the public will see the Tories as the lesser of two evils. If Labour changes for the better, then it will get into power and the Tories will have to change. 
Me, am as bogged off as you.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 26, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Not a very high bar though is it......

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It's a bit like winning the "Father of the Year" award when the only other finalist was Josef Fritzel.


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Toyboy, i feel your pain. Won't be long before DFT comes along and says you have Jimmy Krankie.

You know what, we have a society that has food banks, women being robbed of pensions, shortage of houses, Police, NHS, Teachers on there arses. Armed forces slashed, unchecked immigration, thousands of unskilled EU migrants flooding the country. The Country itself being flooded through lack of spending, mega companies paying no tax. The bollox that is Brexit. etc etc bloody etc.
So why are the Tories running this country. Two words. Jeremy Corbyn. If you want to chuck another two words in Diane Abacus. They put the fear of god into joe public. The Majority of voters in this country are floating voters. Door Frae Toon is SNP through and through. Put a pig in a dress and she could lead the SNP. Well she did, but my point is there are the equivalent DFTs in Labour, Lib dems, Brexit Partys. There always will be, but its the floating voters that will put partys in power, and the floating voters see Jeremy Corbyn and the left wing Labour party as the worst of two evils. I am convinced that if Corbyn was not the leader of the labour party, we would not be having this election as Labour would already be in power.
As i see it, we will continue to see the Tories as the Major leading, lying party of this country. That will not change until Corbyn is gone after the next election, when the labour party can regroup under a middle of the rd leader. Until Labour change, the public will see the Tories as the lesser of two evils. If Labour changes for the better, then it will get into power and the Tories will have to change.
Me, am as bogged off as you.
		
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I agree with most of what you've said Tash but behind Corbyn you have McDonnell and Momentum. For me, its when Momentum are gone.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Toyboy, i feel your pain. Won't be long before DFT comes along and says you have Jimmy Krankie.

You know what, we have a society that has food banks, women being robbed of pensions, shortage of houses, Police, NHS, Teachers on there arses. Armed forces slashed, unchecked immigration, thousands of unskilled EU migrants flooding the country. The Country itself being flooded through lack of spending, mega companies paying no tax. The bollox that is Brexit. etc etc bloody etc.
So why are the Tories running this country. Two words. Jeremy Corbyn. If you want to chuck another two words in Diane Abacus. They put the fear of god into joe public. The Majority of voters in this country are floating voters. Door Frae Toon is SNP through and through. Put a pig in a dress and she could lead the SNP. Well she did, but my point is there are the equivalent DFTs in Labour, Lib dems, Brexit Partys. There always will be, but its the floating voters that will put partys in power, and the floating voters see Jeremy Corbyn and the left wing Labour party as the worst of two evils. I am convinced that if Corbyn was not the leader of the labour party, we would not be having this election as Labour would already be in power.
As i see it, we will continue to see the Tories as the Major leading, lying party of this country. That will not change until Corbyn is gone after the next election, when the labour party can regroup under a middle of the rd leader. Until Labour change, the public will see the Tories as the lesser of two evils. If Labour changes for the better, then it will get into power and the Tories will have to change.
Me, am as bogged off as you.
		
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The problem is Tash that theres hardly a fag papers width between the whole Labour front bench and The Night Garden. There are better people in the party and no doubt good candidates in the waiting but the problem as explained by Hobbit is that the driving core is rotten. Labour has to undergo a big collapse and be carried off in the Ninky Nonk before it can rebuild into something credible as a government.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Toyboy, i feel your pain. Won't be long before DFT comes along and says you have Jimmy Krankie.

You know what, we have a society that has food banks, women being robbed of pensions, shortage of houses, Police, NHS, Teachers on there arses. Armed forces slashed, unchecked immigration, thousands of unskilled EU migrants flooding the country. The Country itself being flooded through lack of spending, mega companies paying no tax. The bollox that is Brexit. etc etc bloody etc.
So why are the Tories running this country. Two words. Jeremy Corbyn. If you want to chuck another two words in Diane Abacus. They put the fear of god into joe public. The Majority of voters in this country are floating voters. Door Frae Toon is SNP through and through. Put a pig in a dress and she could lead the SNP. Well she did, but my point is there are the equivalent DFTs in Labour, Lib dems, Brexit Partys. There always will be, but its the floating voters that will put partys in power, and the floating voters see Jeremy Corbyn and the left wing Labour party as the worst of two evils. I am convinced that if Corbyn was not the leader of the labour party, we would not be having this election as Labour would already be in power.
As i see it, we will continue to see the Tories as the Major leading, lying party of this country. That will not change until Corbyn is gone after the next election, when the labour party can regroup under a middle of the rd leader. Until Labour change, the public will see the Tories as the lesser of two evils. If Labour changes for the better, then it will get into power and the Tories will have to change.
Me, am as bogged off as you.
		
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Quite a sad indictment of the people that youâ€™re making there.
A proven liar paid for by the rich is the best we can hope for which will result in more foodbanks, more poverty, more deaths due to Austerity.
No not for me, Iâ€™d rather risk Labour for the next 5 years than tories for 15.


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## toyboy54 (Nov 26, 2019)

Hobbit.....Like you I would accept most of Tashys comments(JamesR..The thought is vomit inducing and abhorrent so NO thank you).
The man? has no presence or authority and like the rest of them is trained to talk over/pontificate/will be looking atiffery rather than YES/NO WE Flocked That Up.
Think I'll vote for Andrew Neil.
Again I know that it is so far fetched as to be War Of The Worlds type/scenario but again I would refer you all to 2020 World Of War(World War 2020?? get it,read it,especially last three/four chapters).
Starting to think Dads Army and "we're Doomed"!
Jimbo


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## sev112 (Nov 26, 2019)

Which prime ministers and leaders of the opposition since 1970s (I donâ€™t go much further back than that, that I can remember) were good leaders ?


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## chrisd (Nov 26, 2019)

sev112 said:



			Which prime ministers and leaders of the opposition since 1970s (I donâ€™t go much further back than that, that I can remember) were good leaders ?
		
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Good luck with that one Sev!

Not that I havn't thought some were much better than others but I raise you a name and someone will be along in 10 seconds to rubbish them


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 26, 2019)

sev112 said:



			Which prime ministers and leaders of the opposition since 1970s (I donâ€™t go much further back than that, that I can remember) were good leaders ?
		
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For Labour, John Smith & Tony Blair. Through a very tough period Neil Kinnock was also a good leader, his reputation tarnished by his gravy train years.

You may not agree with the politics of the above but they were good leaders.

For the conservatives the obvious one is Margaret Thatcher. After that I'm not sure I would class any of her successors as good leaders. 

Paddy Ashdown was a good leader for the LibDems but he stands alone imo for that party.


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## JamesR (Nov 26, 2019)

toyboy54 said:



			(JamesR..The thought is vomit inducing and abhorrent so NO thank you).

Jimbo
		
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good man ðŸ‘


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Quite a sad indictment of the people that youâ€™re making there.
A proven liar paid for by the rich is the best we can hope for which will result in more foodbanks, more poverty, more deaths due to Austerity.
No not for me, Iâ€™d rather risk Labour for the next 5 years than tories for 15.
		
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I can see the logic in that Paul, and it is so tempting, but would putting this version of Labour in power lead down a path the UK shouldn't go. Both sides of the argument are currently extremes, and at this point I'd be voting LibDems. Mrs Shouty Woman and the anti-democrats - no way. Abstaining is looking on the cards.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2019)

Away from the political party. If there is one thing that has narked me, it has been a lot of the BBC/ITV grilling of these muppets. Fiona Bruce on QT is embarrassing. The woman on ITV last week, what on earth is that all about. The country is on its arse and Bojo and Comrade Corbyn are asked what they would buy one another for Xmas. give me bluddy strength.
People like Andrew Neil, Laura Kussenberg, Andrew Marr etc should be ripping these people to bits. These people have created massive fractures in our society that will take years to heal. They should be held accountable.


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## chrisd (Nov 26, 2019)

We all have our own agendas but I'd say that Boris will not wreck the economy, he will be more prudent, whether you like him or not, he is less dangerous in the medium and long term. Corbyn will absolutely wreck the country for years to come as his plans are going to cost HUGE sums of money and may not only be wrecking the economy given that his plans are unaffordable, but it appears to assume that the EU and world economy wont go in to recession and that would be disastrous


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Away from the political party. If there is one thing that has narked me, it has been a lot of the BBC/ITV grilling of these muppets. Fiona Bruce on QT is embarrassing. The woman on ITV last week, what on earth is that all about. The country is on its arse and Bojo and Comrade Corbyn are asked what they would buy one another for Xmas. give me bluddy strength.
People like Andrew Neil, Laura Kussenberg, Andrew Marr etc should be ripping these people to bits. These people have created massive fractures in our society that will take years to heal. They should be held accountable.
		
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Kussenberg! You really need to google her, her tory bias is a disgrace!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I can see the logic in that Paul, and it is so tempting, but would putting this version of Labour in power lead down a path the UK shouldn't go. Both sides of the argument are currently extremes, and at this point I'd be voting LibDems. Mrs Shouty Woman and the anti-democrats - no way. Abstaining is looking on the cards.
		
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If itâ€™s that bad Bri it will only last a maximum of 5 years, how long will take to repair the damage of 15yrs of tory rule.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 26, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			The problem is Tash that theres hardly a fag papers width between the whole Labour front bench and The Night Garden. There are better people in the party and no doubt good candidates in the waiting but the problem as explained by Hobbit is that the driving core is rotten. Labour has to undergo a big collapse and be carried off in the Ninky Nonk before it can rebuild into something credible as a government.
		
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That could be said of the Tories.. the point is we have experienced their efforts. If your happy with it so be it, if not bite the bullet and go the other way .. life is simple too much over thinking it


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Kussenberg! You really need to google her, her tory bias is a disgrace!
		
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Just had a quick read on Wikipedia, i would'nt say she is a disgrace, compared to Corbyn and Bojo she is deffo Div 3 when in comes to Porkies.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I can see the logic in that Paul, and it is so tempting, but would putting this version of Labour in power lead down a path the UK shouldn't go. Both sides of the argument are currently extremes, and at this point I'd be voting LibDems. Mrs Shouty Woman and the anti-democrats - no way. Abstaining is looking on the cards.
		
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Not really looked at how abstaining could be as damaging as voting


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Just had a quick read on Wikipedia, i would'nt say she is a disgrace, compared to Corbyn and Bojo she is deffo Div 3 when in comes to Porkies.
		
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Sheâ€™s the BBC Chief Political Reporter, itâ€™s not porkies itâ€™s her bias!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Not really looked at how abstaining could be as damaging as voting 

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Many believe abstaining or spoiling your ballot paper is a vote for your worst choice.


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## Cherry13 (Nov 26, 2019)

With regards to Corbyn/Momentum/unions I think there are certainly some cracks starting to appear, in Jarrow for instance unite forced through their preferred choice, with the backing of momentum and strongly AGAINST Corbyn and McDonnells choice (Corbyn ex chief of staff). They are both apparently furious at the choice because Jarrow is likely one of the safest seats in the country and there man would have been a shoe in.


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			If itâ€™s that bad Bri it will only last a maximum of 5 years, how long will take to repair the damage of 15yrs of tory rule.
		
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Will it only last 5 years? Will Labour bring in laws that cause further harm, if elected with a strong majority? What damage will Momentum do, once emboldened, in council elections? Neither you nor I can forecast what a Labour govt would do, or any govt, but we can look at their current behaviour, Labour or Tory, and decide from there.

635 cases of antisemitism in the Labour Party in the first 6 months of this year. As much as I want a socialist thinking govt I just can't vote for a party that, potentially, looks a little like the Nazi party of the early 1930's.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Will it only last 5 years? Will Labour bring in laws that cause further harm, if elected with a strong majority? What damage will Momentum do, once emboldened, in council elections? Neither you nor I can forecast what a Labour govt would do, or any govt, but we can look at their current behaviour, Labour or Tory, and decide from there.

*635 cases of antisemitism* in the Labour Party in the first 6 months of this year. As much as I want a socialist thinking govt I just can't vote for a party that, potentially, looks a little like the Nazi party of the early 1930's.
		
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At least give Corbyn the chance to apologise for it.  oh hang on.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 26, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			That could be said of the Tories.. the point is we have experienced their efforts. If your happy with it so be it, if not bite the bullet and go the other way .. life is simple too much over thinking it
		
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Go what way?  Im a Brexiteer so LibDems are a no go zone, Labour with Corbyn is a worst choice than pins in the eyes.  Greens are as bad as Labour with policies so Boris or Nigel for me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Will it only last 5 years? Will Labour bring in laws that cause further harm, if elected with a strong majority? What damage will Momentum do, once emboldened, in council elections? Neither you nor I can forecast what a Labour govt would do, or any govt, but we can look at their current behaviour, Labour or Tory, and decide from there.

635 cases of antisemitism in the Labour Party in the first 6 months of this year. As much as I want a socialist thinking govt I just can't vote for a party that, potentially, looks a little like the Nazi party of the early 1930's.
		
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Come on Bri, 635 allegations of antisemitism, Iâ€™m not excusing any of the 635 but it ranges from somebody â€œlikingâ€ or sharing a social media post to out and out abuse. From which 8 people have been expelled from the party
The 130 outstanding cases are cases the Jewish Labour Movement have disagreed or are unhappy with the decision and have referred them to the EHRC. The pedantic bit of whether they have been dealt with or not is the difference in response between the 2.

Many believe it is a purposeful campaign to attack Corbyn and he has on record time and time again been proved to actually stand up and support the Jewish community.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 26, 2019)

You should not vote for Corbyn as he will do harm to the economy. But we must get Brexit done as the overwhelming evidence is that it will do harm to the economy. However one is a good type of harm and not to be feared. #factcheck


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## harpo_72 (Nov 26, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Go what way?  Im a Brexiteer so LibDems are a no go zone, Labour with Corbyn is a worst choice than pins in the eyes.  Greens are as bad as Labour with policies so Boris or Nigel for me.
		
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Yeah we know, but the point was your comment could be applied to the Tories as well.. 
and a bit pointless


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## toyboy54 (Nov 26, 2019)

Changed my nind-can I vote for Tashyboy with Andrew Neil as 2ic. Confess to thinking About voting for Mrs.Krankie(appreciate that Blackford in Westminster is a total embarrassment and one trick pony)again...just to keep Tories out)
Where are the real leaders and people of integrity when you need them?
Seen Corbyn again on News At Ten and still no apology for anti-Semitism,plus check him out on where the money is coming from and would he defend us militarily???? 
As for Mrs.Krankie last night Neil Skewered her Properly on all subjects--would you believe that she was quite happy to quote that while the NHS up here are missing virtually every target set and have multi-million pound hospitals that are unfit for purpose/closed/subject to possible legal action for killing patients she proudly quotes that we are doing much better than England,WTF?what a small minded way of thinking/measuring progress-shameful and embarrassing way of thinking(but so prevalent amongst her adoring followers )                  Think I'll go back to Croatia and sign myself into that 3rd world institution that I was in--just to escape all this crap/lying.
Jimbo


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Bri, 635 allegations of antisemitism, Iâ€™m not excusing any of the 635 but it ranges from somebody â€œlikingâ€ or sharing a social media post to out and out abuse. From which 8 people have been expelled from the party
The 130 outstanding cases are cases the Jewish Labour Movement have disagreed or are unhappy with the decision and have referred them to the EHRC. The pedantic bit of whether they have been dealt with or not is the difference in response between the 2.

Many believe it is a purposeful campaign to attack Corbyn and he has on record time and time again been proved to actually stand up and support the Jewish community.
		
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So how many are acceptable? You're making excuses for some of them, writing them off as not being bad enough... really? You get to choose what isn't bad enough? Sharing derogatory posts can constitute bullying, and the fact that someone has liked them - are you saying liking antisemite posts is ok.

The Welsh Labour candidate handled it superbly last week. She highlighted in to the Welsh Labour Party, who asked Labour UK's Legal and Governance Office to investigate - and they said no...you've got to be kidding!!!

Corbyn had the opportunity in 2016 when the (very brief) Chakrabarti investigation took place. And he's had ample opportunity on countless occasions to show strong leadership in this and has failed worse than miserably. So he's stood up time and again? No he hasn't. He's said words but where are the strong actions?

I do have a growing inkling that Corbyn isn't an antisemite, more just a wet dishcloth totally lacking in the ability to show strong leadership on issues that need him to tell some people to do one. But that still doesn't get away from the fact that you have Momentum in the background hounding good, longstanding MP's and councillors out of a job they've done very well.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 26, 2019)

What amazes me re the political state we now find ourselves is this. Is Bojo the best that the tories have. Same with Corbyn, is he Labours trump card. Lib Anti dems, how can a party be taken serious to govern when over 50% of the country voted leave and they she says ' don't think so". Brexit, Farage is marmite. Same up north and the SNP and Krankie. How have we got to a state where Our crap is better than there crap". Whilst ever we defend these idiots and think these are the best thing since sliced bread, and If we allow these Leaders to continue to spread there lies, we will continue heading down a one way poo street.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 26, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			So how many are acceptable? You're making excuses for some of them, writing them off as not being bad enough... really? You get to choose what isn't bad enough? Sharing derogatory posts can constitute bullying, and the fact that someone has liked them - are you saying liking antisemite posts is ok.

The Welsh Labour candidate handled it superbly last week. She highlighted in to the Welsh Labour Party, who asked Labour UK's Legal and Governance Office to investigate - and they said no...you've got to be kidding!!!

Corbyn had the opportunity in 2016 when the (very brief) Chakrabarti investigation took place. And he's had ample opportunity on countless occasions to show strong leadership in this and has failed worse than miserably. So he's stood up time and again? No he hasn't. He's said words but where are the strong actions?

I do have a growing inkling that Corbyn isn't an antisemite, more just a wet dishcloth totally lacking in the ability to show strong leadership on issues that need him to tell some people to do one. But that still doesn't get away from the fact that you have Momentum in the background hounding good, longstanding MP's and councillors out of a job they've done very well.
		
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No amount is acceptable, my point is the fact itâ€™s not just Labour and some of the allegations have come from third parties, ie those offended on behalf of others!
I wish to God Labour had a different leader and a few others were gone, but thatâ€™s not the choice we have at the moment.
As has been said time and time again we have 2 very bad leaders and parties at the moment, but as we get closet to the election I get a strong whiff of media bias and meddling going on, even Laura Keunssberg today tweeted 21 times about Labour and antisemitism letter and just twice about the tory islamophobia letter.
ITV News at 10 confronts boris about the their issues and just shows him talking about Corbyn.


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## toyboy54 (Nov 26, 2019)

Hobbit............So well put and true especially the 'wet dishcloth' 
His stance on any form of of how to defend the UK against terrorism/conventional warfare or having the balls to not only push the buttonbut making it loud and clear that there would be instant retaliation if necessary-despite the MAD scenario is veryworrying--(-If I'm going out in that situation then dammed right that that I want to take a few with me)
Jimbo


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## Hobbit (Nov 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No amount is acceptable, my point is the fact itâ€™s not just Labour and some of the allegations have come from third parties, ie those offended on behalf of others!
I wish to God Labour had a different leader and a few others were gone, but thatâ€™s not the choice we have at the moment.
As has been said time and time again we have 2 very bad leaders and parties at the moment, but as we get closet to the election I get a strong whiff of media bias and meddling going on, even Laura Keunssberg today tweeted 21 times about Labour and antisemitism letter and just twice about the tory islamophobia letter.
ITV News at 10 confronts boris about the their issues and just shows him talking about Corbyn.
		
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I'm with you on 99% of what you've posted. However, I don't have a problem with SOME people highlighting issues. There are people that need stronger people or people with access to media to defend them.

That said, it doesn't matter how many different ways its painted, in terms of economies of scale Labour has a massive problem with who's jerking the chains behind the scenes. Do I want a puppet govt ran by Momentum and the unions. I sometimes feel Corbyn can't say exactly what he feels he should be said because of those hiding in the shadows. We all know he's Eurosceptic and has wanted to be out of Europe for almost 30 years. He can't bring himself to say Remain because of his beliefs but he wasn't say leave because of who's behind the scenes.

You want Leave... I'd be very, very sceptical about Labour delivering that. Jeremy won't have a choice in it.


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## 4LEX (Nov 27, 2019)

Kussenberg isn't biased towards the Tories. If you believe that you're deluded or have an agenda. Any nutjob on Google can put together some biased edits.......using Google as evidence FFS  

As for Corbyn....let's hope this election kills him as a mainstream player. When Labour and the country needed a strong opposition - it got a weak, cowardly and self obsessed clown. Anyone with any self respect would've resigned after the last election. He finished a long second to the worst and most complacent election campaign in decades and hailed it as a victory.

A strong and united Labour party with a decent leader and balanced manifesto and it would've been a shoe in.

I'll have the pick n mix, crisps and popcorn out on the 12th/13th and enjoy this scumbags demise.


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## patricks148 (Nov 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Come on Bri, 635 allegations of antisemitism, Iâ€™m not excusing any of the 635 but it ranges from somebody â€œlikingâ€ or sharing a social media post to out and out abuse. From which 8 people have been expelled from the party
The 130 outstanding cases are cases the Jewish Labour Movement have disagreed or are unhappy with the decision and have referred them to the EHRC. The pedantic bit of whether they have been dealt with or not is the difference in response between the 2.

Many believe it is a purposeful campaign to attack Corbyn and he has on record time and time again been proved to actually stand up and support the Jewish community.
		
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I'd agree, thing is most of these cases are comments on Israel and Netenyahus policy which what is now defined as anti semitism, even jews are being called it if they are ani Ziononist


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## Hobbit (Nov 27, 2019)

BBC Wales version of Question Time was on last night. Nia Griffith, on Labour's Front Bench as Shadow Defence Secretary made comment on Labour's lack of an apology over antisemitism.

Basically, she said Labour should have been far stronger in dealing with antisemitism and apologise to the Jewish community and to her colleagues within the Labour Party who have suffered the abuse. 

And that's all that was needed. An open, public apology and a strong response to every claim. If it had been done properly in 2016 - see the Chakrabarti inquiry and subsequent award of a Baroness title... hearty bloody hahahaha, it could have been put to bed leaving a clean run in to the election.

Forget the media hype/bias for a second and maybe consider how many Labour MP's, councillors and party activists/members/supporters have left the party over this issue.


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## patricks148 (Nov 27, 2019)

toyboy54 said:



			Changed my nind-can I vote for Tashyboy with Andrew Neil as 2ic. Confess to thinking About voting for Mrs.Krankie(appreciate that Blackford in Westminster is a total embarrassment and one trick pony)again...just to keep Tories out)
Where are the real leaders and people of integrity when you need them?
Seen Corbyn again on News At Ten and still no apology for anti-Semitism,plus check him out on where the money is coming from and would he defend us militarily????
As for Mrs.Krankie last night Neil Skewered her Properly on all subjects--would you believe that she was quite happy to quote that while the NHS up here are missing virtually every target set and have multi-million pound hospitals that are unfit for purpose/closed/subject to possible legal action for killing patients she proudly quotes that we are doing much better than England,WTF?what a small minded way of thinking/measuring progress-shameful and embarrassing way of thinking(but so prevalent amongst her adoring followers )                  Think I'll go back to Croatia and sign myself into that 3rd world institution that I was in--just to escape all this crap/lying.
Jimbo
		
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i wouldn't ...as a labour supporter would you vote for someone who crossed a picket line and has voted tory

I'm a life long socialist and i will be voting what i think is best for the country not the leader


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## chrisd (Nov 27, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			I'm a life long socialist and i will be voting what i think is best for the country not the leader
		
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Do you seriously think that the plans Corbyn has for the country is the best for the country, leaving aside views on Corbyn himself and his suitability to be PM


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## drdel (Nov 27, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			i wouldn't ...as a labour supporter would you vote for someone who crossed a picket line and has voted tory

I'm a life long socialist and i will be voting what i think is best for the country not the leader
		
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Vote Labour into government and, as an economist I strongly believe, your sons and daughters and future generations will be paying off the huge debt for decades to come - many from the inevitable tax rises on their minimum wage 'state' jobs in rented homes.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2019)

drdel said:



			Vote Labour into government and, as an economist I strongly believe, your sons and daughters and future generations will be paying off the huge debt for decades to come - many from the inevitable tax rises on their minimum wage 'state' jobs in rented homes.
		
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So you donâ€™t believe for one minute if it went as bad as you believe it could, people would keep them in power for further periods, looking at timescales legislation etc you would be looking at a 3 1/2 - 4 year period of a Labour Government, some of that period we will see little change due to Brexit and other tory policies being reversed.
Labours plans went beyond the term of the next Government. 

The future generations bit is scaremongering and another project fear. Parts of the economy need sorting immediately and the tories havenâ€™t even looked at it.

As previously mentioned, theyâ€™ve promised more for potholes than social care.


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## 2blue (Nov 27, 2019)

drdel said:



			Vote Labour into government and, *as an economist *I strongly believe, your sons and daughters and future generations will be paying off the huge debt for decades to come - many from the inevitable tax rises on their minimum wage 'state' jobs in rented homes.
		
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& we all know where those 'experts' got us....  hahaha


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## Hobbit (Nov 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So you donâ€™t believe for one minute if it went as bad as you believe it could, people would keep them in power for further periods, looking at timescales legislation etc you would be looking at a 3 1/2 - 4 year period of a Labour Government, some of that period we will see little change due to Brexit and other tory policies being reversed.
Labours plans went beyond the term of the next Government.

The future generations bit is scaremongering and another project fear. Parts of the economy need sorting immediately and the tories havenâ€™t even looked at it.

As previously mentioned, theyâ€™ve promised more for potholes than social care.
		
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Is legislation the issue? As you say, Labour could be voted out in 5 years time. I wonder how much borrowing could be achieved in that time?

I want a socialist govt but its got to be a responsible govt. The level of borrowing that could be achieved in 5 years would have already done the damage you see as only scaremongering.


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## drdel (Nov 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So you donâ€™t believe for one minute if it went as bad as you believe it could, people would keep them in power for further periods, looking at timescales legislation etc you would be looking at a 3 1/2 - 4 year period of a Labour Government, some of that period we will see little change due to Brexit and other tory policies being reversed.
Labours plans went beyond the term of the next Government.

The future generations bit is scaremongering and another project fear. Parts of the economy need sorting immediately and the tories havenâ€™t even looked at it.

As previously mentioned, theyâ€™ve promised more for potholes than social care.
		
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In 5 years they can destroy the share value of companies in line for potential 'public' ownership or force them to off-shore to protect the 'price' (see National Grid). Labour can easily incur debt and set out long term contractual liabilities. Don't think wealth creators will stick around and 'wait-and-see'.

I know its popular to right off opinions that are disagreeable as 'project fear' I'm just giving an opinion as someone with a bit of knowledge economic analysis - quite happy for you to take a different view but I wouldn't be betting on a comfortable Labour run future.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 27, 2019)

I always think that if Hesaltine had beaten Thatcher and the wrong half of the Tory Party and if John Smith had better health we would now be living in a country that we would be proud of,

Corbyn was mad to take on the Waspi commitment, it will probably cost him the election.
Johnson had already confirmed that he would not help them so a part/affordable concession by Labour would have had the same effect as a full commitment.


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## patricks148 (Nov 27, 2019)

drdel said:



			Vote Labour into government and, as an economist I strongly believe, your sons and daughters and future generations will be paying off the huge debt for decades to come - many from the inevitable tax rises on their minimum wage 'state' jobs in rented homes.
		
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Thanks, but worked as an ecomomist in the city for many years so i'm well qualified to make my own decisions what i think would be good for the economy


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 27, 2019)

drdel said:



			Vote Labour into government and, as an economist I strongly believe, your sons and daughters and future generations will be paying off the huge debt for decades to come - many from the inevitable tax rises on their minimum wage 'state' jobs in rented homes.
		
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Not being picky but have we not just spent 11 years attempting to pay off the massive debts of the failings of the free market banking system.


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## patricks148 (Nov 27, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Do you seriously think that the plans Corbyn has for the country is the best for the country, leaving aside views on Corbyn himself and his suitability to be PM
		
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as apposed to more of the same tory austerity and a divided society where the rich get richer the poor poorer?

its time for a change and the I'm all right jackism is taking us to a society i don't want to be part of TBH


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## patricks148 (Nov 27, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not being picky but have we not just spent 11 years attempting to pay off the massive debts of the failings of the free market banking system.
		
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yep and part of the problem was prev Conservative Gov compl deregulating banking which was one of the causes of the banking crisis in the first place


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## Foxholer (Nov 27, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not being picky but have we not just spent 11 years attempting to pay off the massive debts of the failings of the free market banking system.
		
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That some would say Labour caused - or at least greatly contributed to!

Not (entirely, or even 'very much') a view I agree with btw. There was, imo, a degree of responsibility involved, but not as much as they were castigated for. The Tories were, imo, fortunate to NOT be in power at the time!


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## chrisd (Nov 27, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			as apposed to more of the same tory austerity and a divided society where the rich get richer the poor poorer?

its time for a change and the I'm all right jackism is taking us to a society i don't want to be part of TBH
		
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It might be time for a change but that change could never be Corbyn & co

If Boris wins, then the Labour party can get rid of the Marxist element, sort themselves out, and go back to being truly the representatives of the working people and stand a chance of being elected at the next GE


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Is legislation the issue? As you say, Labour could be voted out in 5 years time. I wonder how much borrowing could be achieved in that time?

I want a socialist govt but its got to be a responsible govt. The level of borrowing that could be achieved in 5 years would have already done the damage you see as only scaremongering.
		
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But it goes both ways, what if the plans work, what if, what if? Once again itâ€™s Labour bad and then a vacuum, all this â€œIf Labour was good or if Corbyn wasnâ€™t badâ€ etc etc is purely deflection, otherwise the posts would be full of â€œlook how good the tories are, great policy from borisâ€ etc etc.
Look at Brexit, everytime anybody made comments about how dangerous leave would be for the economy we/they were laughed at, same people are now doing it to Corbyn in reverse!
Generic observations Bri, not aimed at anyone in particular.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2019)

chrisd said:



			It might be time for a change but that change could never be Corbyn & co

If Boris wins, then the Labour party can get rid of the Marxist element, sort themselves out, and go back to being truly the representatives of the working people and stand a chance of being elected at the next GE
		
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An opinion I 60% agree with, itâ€™s the 40% at what cost I struggle with.


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## Hobbit (Nov 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			But it goes both ways, what if the plans work, what if, what if? Once again itâ€™s Labour bad and then a vacuum, all this â€œIf Labour was good or if Corbyn wasnâ€™t badâ€ etc etc is purely deflection, otherwise the posts would be full of â€œlook how good the tories are, great policy from borisâ€ etc etc.
Look at Brexit, everytime anybody made comments about how dangerous leave would be for the economy we/they were laughed at, same people are now doing it to Corbyn in reverse!
Generic observations Bri, not aimed at anyone in particular.
		
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Its not deflection, its my opinion of your suggestion that it could all be changed in 5 years time. No it couldn't.

Deflection is changing the subject. And I did say I want a socialist govt. I didn't say Tory good, Labour bad.

If Labour got rid of Corbyn/McDonnell and Momentum, they'd get my vote. Sod all to do with the Tories - no deflection.


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## patricks148 (Nov 27, 2019)

chrisd said:



			It might be time for a change but that change could never be Corbyn & co

If Boris wins, then the Labour party can get rid of the Marxist element, sort themselves out, and go back to being truly the representatives of the working people and stand a chance of being elected at the next GE
		
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why would they want to get rid of the Marxist element, maybe its time for some.

Socialist labour had many of its main aims eroded by maggie and sub conservative Govs, so that the only option some saw was something very similar to conservatism... Blairsim... not one of those i'm glad to say, prob why i've not really been interested in Politics in some years.

Do i think someone could be a better leader than Jezza...? of course, but Boris isn't that person and as much as some mock jezza, but he wants a better society for everyone not just the rich and those who fund the Tory party


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## harpo_72 (Nov 27, 2019)

Not sure he will get a majority anyway, there are die hard Tories, and Billionaire newspaper owners persuading everyone that this will be a disaster .. but ignoring the impeding Brexit.
I think we will see the SNP or the Lib Dems supplying the support to get a majority government .. So in the end they will need to have an agreed position if they wish to pass votes/bills/donkeys etc through the house (we have seen this for 3 years !) so all of the items that you think are extreme will get diluted unless the SNP or Lib Dems have it in their manifesto.

Also remember the Lib Dems have been bitten by helping the Tories into power .. that was a tough lesson and they have suffered possibly 10 years for it and we may see if the public still blames them at this election. 
Honestly speaking if they help Boris, as far as I am concerned you can wipe orange off the colour chart.


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## patricks148 (Nov 27, 2019)

harpo_72 said:



			Not sure he will get a majority anyway, there are die hard Tories, and Billionaire newspaper owners persuading everyone that this will be a disaster .. but ignoring the impeding Brexit.
I think we will see the SNP or the Lib Dems supplying the support to get a majority government .. So in the end they will need to have an agreed position if they wish to pass votes/bills/donkeys etc through the house (we have seen this for 3 years !) so all of the items that you think are extreme will get diluted unless the SNP or Lib Dems have it in their manifesto.

Also remember the Lib Dems have been bitten by helping the Tories into power .. that was a tough lesson and they have suffered possibly 10 years for it and we may see if the public still blames them at this election.
Honestly speaking if they help Boris, as far as I am concerned you can wipe orange off the colour chart.
		
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i don't think that would stop her, she is power hungry and voted for all the Tory austerity bills, luckily they only have what 19 MP at the moment most of which are defectors, so thats them all gone with any luck.. i can see the SNP going back to 2010 levels so just a couple of Die hard Border Conservative constit.... and no JS


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Its not deflection, its my opinion of your suggestion that it could all be changed in 5 years time. No it couldn't.

Deflection is changing the subject. And I did say I want a socialist govt. I didn't say Tory good, Labour bad.

If Labour got rid of Corbyn/McDonnell and Momentum, they'd get my vote. Sod all to do with the Tories - no deflection.
		
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Sorry mate, thought the bottom line showed my comments were in general and not questioning your opinion.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 27, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			i don't think that would stop her, she is power hungry and voted for all the Tory austerity bills, luckily they only have what 19 MP at the moment most of which are defectors, so thats them all gone with any luck.. i can see the SNP going back to 2010 levels so just a couple of Die hard Border Conservative constit.... and no JS

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This will be interesting to see how the remaining turn coats fair .. it does beg the question why they wanted to be Tories in the first place if they were quite recently elected?


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## welshjim22 (Nov 27, 2019)

The man would do well when asked to Condemn the IRA or anti semitism to answer the question rather than these vague general remarks.  His insistence on general answers makes it look like he is hiding something, add that to the MP's that have had to leave, momentum bullying and they just don't deserve to be in government.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2019)

Andrew Neil last night had a go at Corbyn about antisemitism and cited the Lesley Perrin case and Labour doing nothing.
This morning itâ€™s come to light that immediately it was brought to their attention she was suspended while an investigation took place, upon receiving the letter she immediately resigned.
So Neil repeatedly stating last night she only got a written warning is lies.
I wonder if heâ€™ll retract his statements or apologise for getting it wrong.


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## Slime (Nov 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Quite a sad indictment of the people that youâ€™re making there.
A proven liar paid for by the rich is the best we can hope for which will result in more foodbanks, more poverty, more deaths due to Austerity.
No not for me, *Iâ€™d rather risk Labour for the next 5 years than tories for 15.*

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With Corbyn in charge I'd sooner risk the tories for the next 15 years than labour for 1 year!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2019)

Slime said:



			With Corbyn in charge I'd sooner risk the tories for the next 15 years than labour for 1 year!
		
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Good job weâ€™re able to think for ourselves.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 27, 2019)

I continue to have concerns with Corbyn - putting aside for a moment the antisemitism problem - when he is interviewed I just don't feel confidence and authenticity in his replies - but when he is on the stump he exudes confidence and authenticity and then I can get him.  And so were I in a constituency where Labour had a chance of winning the seat then I _would_ have problems


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## SocketRocket (Nov 27, 2019)

Wish hed


SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I continue to have concerns with Corbyn - putting aside for a moment the antisemitism problem - when he is interviewed I just don't feel confidence and authenticity in his replies - but when he is on the stump he exudes confidence and authenticity and then I can get him.  And so were I in a constituency where Labour had a chance of winning the seat then I _would_ have problems
		
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Wish he'd get a set of specs that fitted.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 27, 2019)

welshjim22 said:



			The man would do well when asked to Condemn the IRA or anti semitism to answer the question rather than these vague general remarks.  His insistence on general answers makes it look like he is hiding something, add that to the MP's that have had to leave, momentum bullying and they just don't deserve to be in government.
		
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Oh that would be wise, like hitting a hornets nest with a stick and all the Tory press going bananas.. 
seriously?? 
Bit like saying I would rather be dead in a ditch ... 

Bottom line is the response had some forethought!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 27, 2019)

I wonder why the media havenâ€™t shown this or why one apology is not enough?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1199651692498882561


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## Piece (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I wonder why the media havenâ€™t shown this or why one apology is not enough?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1199651692498882561

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Because the Chief Rabbi very recently said Labour aren't doing enough and Corbyn, as yet, hasn't repeated his apology in reference to the Chief Rabbi's concerns of now. Apologies from yesteryear only address the issue at that time.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Piece said:



			Because the Chief Rabbi very recently said Labour aren't doing enough and Corbyn, as yet, hasn't repeated his apology in reference to the Chief Rabbi's concerns of now. Apologies from yesteryear only address the issue at that time.
		
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How many times does he have to apologise? Chief Rabbi is a huge boris fan.
He is not the voice of all Jews and the letters from other Jewish Leaders are ignored!
Why isnâ€™t there the same campaign over Johnsonâ€™s proven racist remarks?


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## Piece (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			How many times does he have to apologise? Chief Rabbi is a huge boris fan.
He is not the voice of all Jews and the letters from other Jewish Leaders are ignored!
Why isnâ€™t there the same campaign over Johnsonâ€™s proven racist remarks?
		
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By failing to apologise now, he is coming across as a leader who dithers or doesn't accept it's a serious problem. It may not be the reality, but that's the perception.

If Boris was directly accused of the same thing, I would expect the same from him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Piece said:



			By failing to apologise now, he is coming across as a leader who dithers or doesn't accept it's a serious problem. It may not be the reality, but that's the perception.

If Boris was directly accused of the same thing, I would expect the same from him.
		
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Apologise for what though? This is media led, it all started as the Jewish Labour Movement saying he had 130 cases with the EHRC when he stated all complaints had been dealt with.

It turned out the 130 cases are cases were the JLM disagreed with the Labour Party decision and are appealing them.

Then we the had only 2 political Parties (Labour and BNP) have been referred to the EHRC by Raab, onlly for the EHRC to report they also have a dossier on the tory Party about islamophobia.

The issue is serious, but itâ€™s been used as a weapon against Corbyn, just look at how Andrew Neil went on at Corbyn about Leslie Perrin, turns out the BBC got that wrong as well, no apology or headline putting that straight.

Please donâ€™t take it personal, but some of what we are seeing is misinformation and when proved wrong we donâ€™t get the reply, itâ€™s just ignored.

As for boris:


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## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			How many times does he have to apologise? Chief Rabbi is a huge boris fan.
He is not the voice of all Jews and the letters from other Jewish Leaders are ignored!
Why isnâ€™t there the same campaign over Johnsonâ€™s proven racist remarks?
		
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Is he a Boris fan? I couldn't find anything, not that it doesn't mean he isn't.

However, his record globally, including leading inter-faith collaborations is first class. Still don't think he should have got involved though.

I've read a couple of the articles that Boris wrote. They're clumsy, ignorant, crass, insensitive and confrontational. I'm not saying the "letter-box" comment isn't racist but the context of the article is in support of muslim women.

Like many of the negative comments about Corbyn, many of them are unfair and are using material out of context. 

I'm not defending Johnson, don't want him anywhere near Westminster, just trying a bit of balance...


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 28, 2019)

I struggle with JC, however the anti Semitism row is a nothing to me when you consider the BJ issues with Jennifer Arcuri, the Thames garden bridge fiasco or the water cannon purchase and subsequent scrapage after never being used.
Trust Boris Johnson..... you got to be joking.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Is he a Boris fan? I couldn't find anything, not that it doesn't mean he isn't.

However, his record globally, including leading inter-faith collaborations is first class. Still don't think he should have got involved though.

I've read a couple of the articles that Boris wrote. They're clumsy, ignorant, crass, insensitive and confrontational. I'm not saying the "letter-box" comment isn't racist but the context of the article is in support of muslim women.

Like many of the negative comments about Corbyn, many of them are unfair and are using material out of context.

I'm not defending Johnson, don't want him anywhere near Westminster, just trying a bit of balance...
		
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## Piece (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Apologise for what though? This is media led, it all started as the Jewish Labour Movement saying he had 130 cases with the EHRC when he stated all complaints had been dealt with.

It turned out the 130 cases are cases were the JLM disagreed with the Labour Party decision and are appealing them.

Then we the had only 2 political Parties (Labour and BNP) have been referred to the EHRC by Raab, onlly for the EHRC to report they also have a dossier on the tory Party about islamophobia.

The issue is serious, but itâ€™s been used as a weapon against Corbyn, just look at how Andrew Neil went on at Corbyn about Leslie Perrin, turns out the BBC got that wrong as well, no apology or headline putting that straight.

Please donâ€™t take it personal, but some of what we are seeing is misinformation and when proved wrong we donâ€™t get the reply, itâ€™s just ignored.

As for boris:
<snip>
		
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I get that some of this is media led and does feed on misinformation. But, it is clear that this is still an issue for some in the Labour party, therefore I would expect a leader of an all inclusive party to take ownership and offer a continued apology, whether or not you or Mr Corbyn think it is warranted. I will respect a leader for taking a strong stance and accountability, again, whether it's justified or not; I'm just not seeing it. On the flip side I do see that even if he did apologise now, the media machine probably wouldn't let it go.

Same for Boris. I would expect him to apologise, if asked, for his comments on "letter box" dressing and other similar words. If he didn't, then in my eyes, he's just as untrustworthy and weak.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

I am yet to find one example of Corbyn using racist (or even possibly racist) language.
We get no coverage what so ever of the Jews that support him or the Muslim groups denouncing boris.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Piece said:



			I get that some of this is media led and does feed on misinformation. But, it is clear that this is still an issue for some in the Labour party, therefore I would expect a leader of an all inclusive party to take ownership and offer a continued apology, whether or not you or Mr Corbyn think it is warranted. I will respect a leader for taking a strong stance and accountability, again, whether it's justified or not; I'm just not seeing it. On the flip side I do see that even if he did apologise now, the media machine probably wouldn't let it go.

Same for Boris. I would expect him to apologise, if asked, for his comments on "letter box" dressing and other similar words. If he didn't, then in my eyes, he's just as untrustworthy and weak.
		
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Boris was asked in parliament to apologise for his comments and refused.
Corbyn has continually denounced all forms of racism, like you say, whatever he does, he wonâ€™t win.


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## Piece (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



*Boris was asked in parliament to apologise for his comments and refused.*
Corbyn has continually denounced all forms of racism, like you say, whatever he does, he wonâ€™t win.
		
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And that's a fair comment. What I'm talking about is the here and now, for both Corbyn and Boris. Corbyn has been asked the apology question now, Boris hasn't to my knowledge.


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## IanM (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I am yet to find one example of Corbyn using racist (or even possibly racist) language.
We get no coverage what so ever of the Jews that support him or the Muslim groups denouncing boris.
		
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BBC Breakfast had a bloke on yesterday morning... introduced as "a Jewish Labour voter."   Hilarious, that makes it ok then.

Corbyn always speaks out against "racism."  But shares platforms with HAMAS and Holocaust deniers.   I guess he sees Jews as white and therefore not within the scope of what he deems racism.  

Specific Political intervention from a Chief Rabbi is virtually unheard of......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Piece said:



			And that's a fair comment. What I'm talking about is the here and now, for both Corbyn and Boris. Corbyn has been asked the apology question now, Boris hasn't to my knowledge.
		
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Because boris is yet to be interviewed and has never apologised for the things in the past, itâ€™s nothing new with boris, just conveniently ignored whilst Corbyn is expected to continually apologise!


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## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



View attachment 28646

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He's hardly likely to congratulate Corbyn is he? Corbyn who said that "Hamas are my friends." The JLM have been affiliated to the Labour Party for 100 years, and its only in the last 3 years that there's been a fallout. And a fallout with Labour MP's and and and.... I'm not sure where this conversation is going. Are you defending Corbyn, because thats what it looks like?

I'm not defending either Corbyn or Johnson. I've looked and looked and looked for some sort of weight of evidence against the Tories on Islamaphobia. Yes they are guilty of it without a doubt but just how many cases. I'm struggling to reach 20, and that's nowhere near the 635 cases lodged with Labour in just the first 6 months of this year. There shouldn't be any in both parties.

Can we just both accept that both individuals are guilty of the 'charges' laid at their door and move on to things like the economy/affordability/NHS/Law & Order?


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## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Because boris is yet to be interviewed and has never apologised for the things in the past, itâ€™s nothing new with boris, just conveniently ignored whilst Corbyn is expected to continually apologise!
		
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Corbyn apologised in 2016 and yesterday. Boris apologised 2 days ago. Were exactly the right words used? Thats subjective but as far as I'm concerned they both apologised.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Of


Hobbit said:



			He's hardly likely to congratulate Corbyn is he? Corbyn who said that "Hamas are my friends." The JLM have been affiliated to the Labour Party for 100 years, and its only in the last 3 years that there's been a fallout. And a fallout with Labour MP's and and and.... I'm not sure where this conversation is going. Are you defending Corbyn, because thats what it looks like?

I'm not defending either Corbyn or Johnson. I've looked and looked and looked for some sort of weight of evidence against the Tories on Islamaphobia. Yes they are guilty of it without a doubt but just how many cases. I'm struggling to reach 20, and that's nowhere near the 635 cases lodged with Labour in just the first 6 months of this year. There shouldn't be any in both parties.

Can we just both accept that both individuals are guilty of the 'charges' laid at their door and move on to things like the economy/affordability/NHS/Law & Order?
		
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Of course we can move on, but this thread is about Corbyn himself and the issues with antisemitism. The other issues have been covered in the GE Thread.


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## drdel (Nov 28, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Corbyn apologised in 2016 and yesterday. Boris apologised 2 days ago. Were exactly the right words used? Thats subjective but as far as I'm concerned they both apologised.
		
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You need to wear the same heavily rose-tinted specs that others who refuse to see anything that opposes their views are obviously using. 'Denial' is a great protection mechanism but short lived in the face of reality.


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## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Of

Of course we can move on, but this thread is about Corbyn himself and the issues with antisemitism. The other issues have been covered in the GE Thread.
		
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Its about him and his "leadership quality." Although significant and not to be dismissed, there's more than the antisemitism to discuss.

I'll throw one in there. Corbyn speaks with a very caring and considerate way when discussing improving the lives of the disadvantaged. Thats one thing that can't be disputed. We could argue the semantics of how their lot is improved, how its all afforded. Whatever, it must be at least attempted. Tory tax breaks for the rich when benefits for the disabled were cut... vile and disgusting. Thats what needs focussing on.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 28, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Its about him and his "leadership quality." Although significant and not to be dismissed, there's more than the antisemitism to discuss.

I'll throw one in there. Corbyn speaks with a very caring and considerate way when discussing improving the lives of the disadvantaged. Thats one thing that can't be disputed. We could argue the semantics of how their lot is improved, how its all afforded. Whatever, it must be at least attempted. Tory tax breaks for the rich when benefits for the disabled were cut... vile and disgusting. Thats what needs focussing on.
		
Click to expand...

Try that in the GE thread and youâ€™ll be told in no uncertain terms the tories had no choice, unfortunately it seems blinkers are only worn by some of us.


----------



## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Try that in the GE thread and youâ€™ll be told in no uncertain terms the tories had no choice, unfortunately it seems blinkers are only worn by some of us.
		
Click to expand...

Even May said Austerity went too deep and for too long.


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## IanM (Nov 28, 2019)

Was following a thread on Twitter about the Cult Corbyn.   

...but it might have been a typo


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## Hobbit (Nov 28, 2019)

IanM said:



			Was following a thread on Twitter about the Cult Corbyn.  

...but it might have been a typo
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like it is.... should have been cult Boris....


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## Slime (Nov 30, 2019)

Just a bit of humour;


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## spongebob59 (Dec 1, 2019)

https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-a...arly-release-of-london-bridge-killer-11875070


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## Wolf (Dec 1, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-a...arly-release-of-london-bridge-killer-11875070

Click to expand...

Was literally only just discussing this article. Considering Boris has said they should serve every minute of their sentence, JC now saying this won't hold well with many voters that are teething on where to place their X. It's very current in the news and on here alone we see many stating kill or make them serve every minute it will have an effect on how some vote.


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## patricks148 (Dec 1, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-a...arly-release-of-london-bridge-killer-11875070

Click to expand...

all well and good, Jez isn't in power Boris is, how did he get out if "they must serve the whole sentence" Boris says ?


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## 2blue (Dec 1, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-a...arly-release-of-london-bridge-killer-11875070

Click to expand...

"Mr Johnson claimed that because the "broken hung parliament was preoccupied with blocking Brexit", his government was unable to make the changes required to keep violent offenders and terrorists in jail for longer."
Brexit to blame for so much, eh. What a total to$$er is Johnson.


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## Slime (Dec 1, 2019)

2blue said:



			"Mr Johnson claimed that because the "broken hung parliament was preoccupied with blocking Brexit", his government was unable to make the changes required to keep violent offenders and terrorists in jail for longer."
Brexit to blame for so much, eh. *What a total to$$er is Johnson.* 

Click to expand...

Everything is relative.
In terms of tossery, he doesn't begin to compete with Corbyn or Swinson!


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 1, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			all well and good, Jez isn't in power Boris is, how did he get out if "they must serve the whole sentence" Boris says ?
		
Click to expand...

Something to do with Labour legislation that the Tories scrapped in 2012 but because the guy was sentenced before the legislation was scrapped he was automatically released on license half way through his sentence. Originally he was given an indeterminate life sentence but this was overruled by a judge and changed to a 16 year sentence. He was then released after 8 years.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2019)

Rather than get all political, hereâ€™s a good article that explains the terrorists release.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/


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## JamesR (Dec 1, 2019)

Slime said:



			Everything is relative.
In terms of tossery, he doesn't begin to compete with Corbyn or Swinson!
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t know; heâ€™s proven to be a tosser and an incompetent minister. Lacking both decency and ability.


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## IanM (Dec 1, 2019)

Poor old Jezzbollah... thereâ€™s an election on, so he and Diane canâ€™t bleat about the racist murder of a citizen by the police


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## JamesR (Dec 1, 2019)

IanM said:



			Poor old Jezzbollah... thereâ€™s an election on, so he and Diane canâ€™t bleat about the racist murder of a citizen by the police
		
Click to expand...

Is that what heâ€™s said?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2019)

IanM said:



			Poor old Jezzbollah... thereâ€™s an election on, so he and Diane canâ€™t bleat about the racist murder of a citizen by the police
		
Click to expand...

Youâ€™ve embarrassed yourself here. Sad post, please remember 2 people were murdered and a terrorist correctly dealt with.
Police officers involved support by EVERYONE on the political spectrum.
Poor, very poor.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 1, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Rather than get all political, hereâ€™s a good article that explains the terrorists release.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/

Click to expand...

Hereâ€™s another angle to the link above.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201076439250087936


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## IanM (Dec 1, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Is that what heâ€™s said?
		
Click to expand...

No, he didnâ€™t.  That was the point.  Iâ€™m contrasting it with his usual


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## JamesR (Dec 1, 2019)

IanM said:



			No, he didnâ€™t.  That was the point.  Iâ€™m contrasting it with his usual
		
Click to expand...

Well it didnâ€™t come across that way...in fact it made you seem like a knob, or even worse, Fragger .

Perhaps a smiley next time ðŸ‘

Edited on purpose by me


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## 2blue (Dec 2, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Well it didnâ€™t come across that way...in fact it made you seem like a knob, or even worse, JamesR.

Perhaps a smiley next time ðŸ‘

Edited on purpose by a moderator,
		
Click to expand...

Why moderate something that was accurate....  Socket is exactly that!! Dib, dib, dob, dob man.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 2, 2019)

2blue said:



			"Mr Johnson claimed that because the "broken hung parliament was preoccupied with blocking Brexit", his government was unable to make the changes required to keep violent offenders and terrorists in jail for longer."
Brexit to blame for so much, eh. What a total to$$er is Johnson. 

Click to expand...

I think Johnson has forgotten that the Queen's Speech was passed...

As far as Corbyn...


----------



## USER1999 (Dec 2, 2019)

Corbyn seems to think Nato should forget about Russia, and focus on equality. Hmm. I had wondered what Nato was about, and now I know.


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## Hobbit (Dec 2, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Corbyn seems to think Nato should forget about Russia, and focus on equality. Hmm. I had wondered what Nato was about, and now I know.
		
Click to expand...

That'll be the same Corbyn that was strenuously against NATO going into the former Yugoslavia, and at the time said the deaths in Kosovo were a fabrication.

Didn't he also say that the deaths in Salisbury were not Russia's fault, but possibly an accident by the UK's own Aldermaston establishment - he was roundly condemned by his own party for that one.


----------



## Wolf (Dec 2, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			That'll be the same Corbyn that was strenuously against NATO going into the former Yugoslavia, and at the time said the deaths in Kosovo were a fabrication.

Didn't he also say that the deaths in Salisbury were not Russia's fault, but possibly an accident by the UK's own Aldermaston establishment - he was roundly condemned by his own party for that one.
		
Click to expand...

One of the many reasons I can't vote for the man.  I want to belive in so many Labour policies but just can't buy into Corbyn.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 2, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			That'll be the same Corbyn that was strenuously against NATO going into the former Yugoslavia, and at the time said the deaths in Kosovo were a fabrication.

Didn't he also say that the deaths in Salisbury were not Russia's fault, but possibly an accident by the UK's own Aldermaston establishment - he was roundly condemned by his own party for that one.
		
Click to expand...

You may be right in what Corbyn said about Salisbury - but I thought he simply urged caution at the outset in jumping to a conclusion that it was Russia - he suggested that it could have been an accident and so urged that caution to so see what evidence the investigators came up with.


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## JamesR (Dec 2, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			That'll be the same Corbyn that was strenuously against NATO going into the former Yugoslavia, and at the time said the deaths in Kosovo were a fabrication.

Didn't he also say that the deaths in Salisbury were not Russia's fault, but possibly an accident by the UK's own Aldermaston establishment - he was roundly condemned by his own party for that one.
		
Click to expand...

However Brian, Boris Johnson told Andrew Marr on Sunday, and previously mentioned at the leaders debate, that you can't take what someone has said, or written, in the past, and hold it against them now.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

2blue said:



			Why moderate something that was accurate....  Socket is exactly that!! Dib, dib, dob, dob man.
		
Click to expand...

Why bring me into a debate I am not involved with.  Have I made any disparaging comments about you? 
I may have a different political outlook to you and others but name calling me is unacceptable and rather juvenile. Have I ever done this to you, the answer is 'No' so please treat me with the same standards as you would like others to treat you.

I also ask those who have decided to 'like' this behaviour if they also think it's acceptable?


----------



## patricks148 (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Why bring me into a debate I am not involved with.  Have I made any disparaging comments about you?
I may have a different political outlook to you and others but name calling me is unacceptable and rather juvenile. Have I ever done this to you, the answer is 'No' so please treat me with the same standards as you would like others to treat you.

I also ask those who have decided to 'like' this behaviour if they also think it's acceptable?
		
Click to expand...

what rubbish all ive see on these threads from you are snide comment and sly digs and name calling when ever you get the chance... as the saying goes don't dish it out if you can't take it


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## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			what rubbish all ive see on these threads from you are snine comment and sly digs and name calling when ever you get the chance... as the saying goes don't dish it out if you can't take it
		
Click to expand...

Please show where I've called you out on a thread you're not involved in. You have personal issues with me because I have a different political preference. You previously told me to go and suck Tory genitalia in a thread.


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## patricks148 (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Please show where I've called you out on a thread you're not involved in. You have personal issues with me because I have a different political preference. You previously told me to go and such Tory genitalia in a thread.
		
Click to expand...

so you havn't ever made snide remarks, name called, bellittled and bullied anyone with a different oppinion to you?

i have no personal issue with you other than the way you behave in these political threads.


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## Hobbit (Dec 2, 2019)

JamesR said:



			However Brian, Boris Johnson told Andrew Marr on Sunday, and previously mentioned at the leaders debate, that you can't take what someone has said, or written, in the past, and hold it against them now.
		
Click to expand...

Mmm, what people did in the past is, in effect, on their CV for the future. Would I employ someone with a dodgy past? Yeah right, 'course I would. And that applies to both Johnson and Corbyn.


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## drdel (Dec 2, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Mmm, what people did in the past is, in effect, on their CV for the future. Would I employ someone with a dodgy past? Yeah right, 'course I would. And that applies to both Johnson and Corbyn.
		
Click to expand...

You'll want MPs, Journalists, Celebrities, to speak and film honestly! - even David Attenborough and his team were found fabricating scenes. As a cynic, I'm afraid truth and accepting blame for one's actions seems to be fading!!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 2, 2019)

drdel said:



			You'll want MPs, Journalists, Celebrities, to speak and film honestly! - even David Attenborough and his team were found fabricating scenes. As a cynic, I'm afraid truth and accepting blame for one's actions seems to be fading!!
		
Click to expand...

...and inactions...Corbyn with the antisemitic words and actions of some in his party, and indeed Johnson in respect of the actions/inactions of himself and his party over the last 10yrs of government.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			so you havn't ever made snide remarks, name called, bellittled and bullied anyone with a different oppinion to you?

i have no personal issue with you other than the way you behave in these political threads.
		
Click to expand...

I have never called you or anyone else out individually when discussing issues with others.
Youre behaviour and that of some others on here typify socialists. If they can't win an arguement on merit they jump in with personal attacks. Theres a pattern and it's always the same huddle of left wingers.


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## Grant85 (Dec 2, 2019)

toyboy54 said:



			Just watched him being grilled by Andrew Neil on T.Vand despite may wanting to be inspired by him and Labour policies have came away being totally less than impressed with his inability to give a straight answer to any question asked and his total lack of personality/leadership quality.
So wanted to see him stand up and be quietly(but forceful)convincing when replying...you know...having some sense of conviction/presence...but all totally lacking!
Now in quandary as to who to vote for-was wanting to go for Labour(despite the plonker/lackey Leonard we have up here).

But Now?????
Jimbo
		
Click to expand...

Definite issue in terms of his presence and speaking ability. I think Corbyn is authentic in that he genuinely believes his policy and views will make the world a better place. And he certainly isn't just turning stuff out because he thinks it's what people want to hear. 

However we have been so used to politicians being polished communicators - thinking of the last 2 who won a majority (Blair & Cameron), they were excellent speakers, far better than Corbyn (and Boris for that matter). 

Ultimately what you say should be far more important than how you say it, but this is just not the case. Perception is more important than reality and if you can make a barnstorming speech or get a complicated point across succinctly, then you will have far more traction with the masses. Especially if the vast majority of voters will only see or hear a short clip on the news. 

I've watched Blair speak quite a bit recently given his interventions on the EU and he is probably still even now the best political communicator in the country. In fairness, Farage is also very good at this sort of thing, albeit I think he isn't all that authentic and is happy to change his policy if he thinks it will keep him relevant and / or popular.


----------



## patricks148 (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			I have never called you or anyone else out individually when discussing issues with others.
Youre behaviour and that of some others on here typify socialists. *If they can't win an arguement on merit they jump in with personal attacks*. Theres a pattern and it's always the same huddle of left wingers.
		
Click to expand...

just as blinkered as always. its always someome else isn't it and the irony of this in bold is hilarious.

i don't think i've seen anyone starting any name calling, snide digs or personel comments apart from you, if you do get any its by way of a reaction to the way you have behaved. how many infactions and warning have you had in these threads???


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			I have never called you or anyone else out individually when discussing issues with others.
Youre behaviour and that of some others on here typify socialists. If they can't win an arguement on merit they jump in with personal attacks. Theres a pattern and it's always the same huddle of left wingers.
		
Click to expand...




SocketRocket said:



			Funny that, I always saw you as some kind of man/troll throwback.
		
Click to expand...




SocketRocket said:



			The KGB are sounding pretty desperate on here this morning, plenty of bile and mouth frothing, could it be theres something spooking them.  Calm down boys the Sun still came up this morning ðŸ™ƒ
		
Click to expand...




SocketRocket said:



			Maybe dont bother, the Politburo will be offended what ever you do.
		
Click to expand...

I guess someone hacked your account then when these posts (a small example) were made
1st one at Doon in response to him describing boris, you get personal.

2nd and 3rd you are calling people communists and implying traitors when people were posting about the tories, none of those posts were about forum members, yet you got personal.

But, no, never you is it.


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I guess someone hacked your account then when these posts (a small example) were made
1st one at Doon in response to him describing boris, you get personal.

2nd and 3rd you are calling people communists and implying traitors when people were posting about the tories, none of those posts were about forum members, yet you got personal.

But, no, never you is it.

Click to expand...

Other than the one to Doon who dishes out more than anyone the others you point out are generalisations and target no individuals and you know that but you're blind prejudice against any comment that is anti labour seems to stop you seeing it.


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			just as blinkered as always. its always someome else isn't it and the irony of this in bold is hilarious.

i don't think i've seen anyone starting any name calling, snide digs or personel comments apart from you, if you do get any its by way of a reaction to the way you have behaved. how many infactions and warning have you had in these threads???
		
Click to expand...

All you do on here is jump in with cheap digs. I have never seen a joined up post from you


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Other than the one to Doon who dishes out more than anyone the others you point out are generalisations and target no individuals and you know that but you're blind prejudice against any comment that is anti labour seems to stop you seeing it.
		
Click to expand...

No, I took those posts personal, youâ€™ve admitted as such it is aimed at me and a few others you see as left wingers! â€œ*Youre behaviour and that of some others on here typify socialists. If they can't win an arguement on merit they jump in with personal attacks. Theres a pattern and it's always the same huddle of left wingersâ€*
Iâ€™ve criticised Labour and Corbyn plenty of times on here and have never seen you call out anything against the tories, youâ€™re as right wing extreme as you see us left wing extreme.
Remember the buffoon comment, first you stated to Old Skier you responded because I called boris a buffoon and when it was proved I didnâ€™t, you changed tack to say it was because I didnâ€™t call Corbyn red man!
Itâ€™s never you!
Post 2 & 3 above were not discussions when you responded, they were out of the blue cheap digs.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 2, 2019)

Anyway, bored discussing it with you.

I’m out


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## patricks148 (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			All you do on here is jump in with cheap digs. I have never seen a joined up post from you
		
Click to expand...

I notice you didn't answer about the warning and infractions...?
give it a rest and get back to the Nicky Nacky or what ever it was you having a dig about then.... one of the many cheap digs


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## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Anyway, bored discussing it with you.

Iâ€™m out
		
Click to expand...

Thats fine but you are missing the point that I was dragged into this even though I wasn't taking part in the discussion. I guess you think that's OK and fine if I slag you off in other threads where you are not posting. Just think about it without your blind prejudice.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			I notice you didn't answer about the warning and infractions...?
give it a rest and get back to the Nicky Nacky or what ever it was you having a dig about then.... one of the many cheap digs
		
Click to expand...

What infractions,  I haven't had any
I can see its pointless trying to discuss anything with you as it will just end up with your juvenile outbursts.


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## patricks148 (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			What infractions,  I haven't had any
I can see its pointless trying to discuss anything with you as it will just end up with your juvenile outbursts.
		
Click to expand...

there we go, still at it, the only person really posting those is you who started with the Nocky nicky or what ever it was.. k 2b commented as he has  noticed all you do is what he discribed and here  you are doing it again, you are worse the LP and thats saying something


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## 2blue (Dec 2, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Well it didnâ€™t come across that way...in fact it made you seem like a knob, or even worse, *JamesR*. (Socket)

Perhaps a smiley next time ðŸ‘

*Edited on purpose by moderater*

Click to expand...

Amusingly, you were involved before the moderater edited the Post..... 



SocketRocket said:



			Why bring me into a debate I am not involved with.  Have I made any disparaging comments about you?
I may have a different political outlook to you and others but name calling me is unacceptable and rather juvenile. Have I ever done this to you, the answer is 'No' so please treat me with the same standards as you would like others to treat you.

I also ask those who have decided to 'like' this behaviour if they also think it's acceptable?
		
Click to expand...

you missed it the 'likes' didn't.....  try & keep up. Dib, dib, dob, dob....


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## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

2blue said:



			Amusingly, you were involved before the moderater edited the Post.....


you missed it the 'likes' didn't.....  try & keep up. Dib, dib, dob, dob....

Click to expand...

What are you whittling on about. I was not involved in the post and my name was dragged into it then it was changed by a Moderator.  I don't know how you got involved, guess you're just trouble making.


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## 2blue (Dec 2, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			What are you whittling on about. I was not involved in the post and my name was dragged into it then it was changed by a Moderator.  I don't know how you got involved, guess you're just trouble making.
		
Click to expand...

JamesR knows how much you like to be involved in everything so he, amusingly, included you but the moderator did what he does. You missed it...  we all had a bit of a giggle...  no need to get so upset.


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 2, 2019)

2blue said:



			JamesR knows how much you like to be involved in everything so he, amusingly, included you but the moderator did what he does. You missed it...  we all had a bit of a giggle...  no need to get so upset.
		
Click to expand...

I didnt miss it.   Why did you get involved though, just stirring the muck I guess.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 2, 2019)

2blue said:



			Amusingly, you were involved before the moderater edited the Post.....


you missed it the 'likes' didn't.....  try & keep up. Dib, dib, dob, dob....

Click to expand...

Also stop putting dib ffs....It’s dyb, It stands for “do your best”.  (dob stands for “do our best”) 🙄


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## Slime (Dec 2, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Also stop putting dib ffs....It’s dyb, It stands for “do your best”.  (dob stands for “do our best”) 🙄
		
Click to expand...


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## 2blue (Dec 2, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Also stop putting dib ffs....It’s dyb, It stands for “do your best”.  (dob stands for “do our best”) 🙄
		
Click to expand...

Oh no...  not another dyb, dyb'er 🤪🤪


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

No one has talked about this has been since the last decade on here. And yet this bad penny of a politician just cannot let go. It’s not a political quotation but on behalf of the British public, please do one and get lost.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51576706


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## Dando (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			No one has talked about this has been since the last decade on here. And yet this bad penny of a politician just cannot let go. It’s not a political quotation but on behalf of the British public, please do one and get lost.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51576706

Click to expand...

He’s just another clown in the circus


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Dando said:



			He’s just another clown in the circus
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the fact remains he was a massive reason why Labour got tanked at the last election. Him getting a position in any shadow cabinet would be a massive own goal and would be confirmation that the left wing of Labours politics has not gone away.


----------



## Dando (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately the fact remains he was a massive reason why Labour got tanked at the last election. Him getting a position in any shadow cabinet would be a massive own goal and would be confirmation that the left wing of Labours politics has not gone away.
		
Click to expand...

And fingers crossed labour will be consigned to the history books


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 20, 2020)

Don't vote for people.  Personailities are irrelevant.
Vote policy positions and ideology.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Don't vote for people.  Personailities are irrelevant.
Vote policy positions and ideology.
		
Click to expand...

so a man who is best friends with terrorists who helped to kill servicemen in both the USA and the UK we are  to vote for him, irrespective of his personality.

He and his 1970’s policies give the UK voters no alternative to the rammel that is BoJo.


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## ger147 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			No one has talked about this has been since the last decade on here. And yet this bad penny of a politician just cannot let go. It’s not a political quotation but on behalf of the British public, please do one and get lost.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51576706

Click to expand...

I hear there is a vacancy at the shadow ministry of Sport...


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I hear there is a vacancy at the shadow ministry of Sport...
		
Click to expand...

I hope it’s mountain climbing in the Andes with no ropes.


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## ger147 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I hope it’s mountain climbing in the Andes with no ropes.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps he could be given special projects to chair instead of shadowing a department.  I would suggest he starts with a working group to explore the possibility that fruit have feelings and so should eating your 5 a day be a crime?

Or perhaps if the next Labour leader has a proper sense of humour, he could be appointed shadow secretary of state for Northern Ireland...


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

ger147 said:



*Perhaps he could be given special projects to chair instead of shadowing a department.  I would suggest he starts with a working group to explore the possibility that fruit have feelings and so should eating your 5 a day be a crime?*

Or perhaps if the next Labour leader has a proper sense of humour, he could be appointed shadow secretary of state for Northern Ireland...
		
Click to expand...

Already taken by Diane Abacus. ☹️


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			so a man who is best friends with terrorists who helped to kill servicemen in both the USA and the UK we are  to vote for him, irrespective of his personality.

He and his 1970’s policies give the UK voters no alternative to the rammel that is BoJo.
		
Click to expand...

If JC is so bad, why doesn't the party replace him with somebody good like our Nancy Pelosi?
Does Labour like to lose?  
If must be complicated to have a parliamentary legislator stand for PM instead of having a separate executive branch.
But having a separate executive branch didn't prevent us from going to hell, so who knows the right answer?

Yes, if somebody is that bad, as is Trump for example, then in that case, I guess you have to consider personality.
I normally don't.  I vote for the policy position, not the person, because the very best person isn't as decent as  a good dog.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			If JC is so bad, why doesn't the party replace him with somebody good like our Nancy Pelosi?
Does Labour like to lose? 
If must be complicated to have a parliamentary legislator stand for PM instead of having a separate executive branch.
But having a separate executive branch didn't prevent us from going to hell, so who knows the right answer?

Yes, if somebody is that bad, as is Trump for example, then in that case, I guess you have to consider personality.
I normally don't.  I vote for the policy position, not the person, because the very best person isn't as decent as  a good dog.
		
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If you want to lose  a couple of days of your life, google Jeremy Corbyn. There are Labour supporters that love him and would carry his babies. Others like a majority of the floating voters at the last election think he is just unelectable. Him as leader of the Labour led that party through years of wilderness. Don’t get me wrong, the Tories and Bojo to some are purgator.  Ut Labour and Jezza are just not electable.


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## Old Skier (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			No one has talked about this has been since the last decade on here. And yet this bad penny of a politician just cannot let go. It’s not a political quotation but on behalf of the British public, please do one and get lost.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51576706

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Him and McDonald have been pulling Long-Baileys strings for a long time and along with the rest of Momentum are unlikely to let her a free rein.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 20, 2020)

I voted for Senator Bernie Sanders in my state's Democratic Primary election, just as I did four years ago.
I will vote for whomever the Democrats nominate to run against Trump, of course, but in my state's primary, I get to vote for the person that I really want.

Yet, America is a socially regressive nation. We are the only developed nation without socialized medicine. We had human slaves as recently as the 1860s.
Many Democrats don't belive that a progressive candidate like Senator Sanders can beat the cretin Trump, so even if they like his views, they want a more conservative Democrat to run against Trump.

My opinion is that if the American electorate chooses Trump again over anybody, the republic is dead anyway--and deserves to be.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			If you want to lose  a couple of days of your life, google Jeremy Corbyn. There are Labour supporters that love him and would carry his babies. Others like a majority of the floating voters at the last election think he is just unelectable. *Him as leader of the Labour led that party through years of wilderness.* Don’t get me wrong, the Tories and Bojo to some are purgator.  Ut Labour and Jezza are just not electable.
		
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Absolute garbage!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



*Absolute garbage![*/QUOTE]

I would love to know why that is. The latest GE suggests I am correct. What is Corbyns legacy. He, DA, JM and others have took the Labour Party back 20 years.
		
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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 20, 2020)

The sad part is that your Tories are well to the left of our Democrats.
Our Republicans are to the right of Ghengus Kan.
I think Brits would embrace Corbyn if Trump were the alternative, but perhaps not.  You do play at the troglodyte's Aberdeen golf course.
If a member of my family played there or on any of his courses, I'd quite literally disown him/her.
My hatred of Trump has no limits.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

You stated “Him as leader of the Labour led that party through years of wilderness.”
He became Leader in Sept 2015.

Couple of facts from 2017 GE:

Labour made a net gain of 30 seats with 40.0% (its highest vote share since 2001 and the first time the party had gained seats since 1997). This was the closest result between the two major parties since Feb 74.

He increased Labour's share of the vote by more than any other of the party's election leaders since 1945.

Labour's proportion of the vote grew 9.6 per cent in the 2017 GE — the biggest swing since Clement Attlee shortly after the Second World War.

So going on the above, please explain the “years of wilderness”

I’d totally agree 2019 was a disaster, but seeing how he’d only been leader for 4 years and after the 2017 result possibly had the right to be optimistic, I’m at a loss to understand the years of wilderness.

I’m sure you can blame TM, but one further thing to consider:
TM increased her vote to 13,636,684 votes an increase of 5.5% on 2015

In Dec boris got 13,966,451 votes only a 1.2% increase on 2017.

A difference of 329,767 and you claimed it was the floating voters that found Corbyn unelectable, you could also use that statement to say boris was less popular than TM with tory voters.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2020)

80 majority, that's the number that means something, the rest is just, well, rammel  🙃


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			80 majority, that's the number that means something, the rest is just, well, rammel  🙃
		
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Adults are having a discussion, please keep quiet.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Adults are having a discussion, please keep quiet.
		
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Adult 😂😂😂    Oh deary me. Haaaaa


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You stated “Him as leader of the Labour led that party through years of wilderness.”
He became Leader in Sept 2015.

Couple of facts from 2017 GE:

Labour made a net gain of 30 seats with 40.0% (its highest vote share since 2001 and the first time the party had gained seats since 1997). This was the closest result between the two major parties since Feb 74.

He increased Labour's share of the vote by more than any other of the party's election leaders since 1945.

Labour's proportion of the vote grew 9.6 per cent in the 2017 GE — the biggest swing since Clement Attlee shortly after the Second World War.

So going on the above, please explain the “years of wilderness”

I’d totally agree 2019 was a disaster, but seeing how he’d only been leader for 4 years and after the 2017 result possibly had the right to be optimistic, I’m at a loss to understand the years of wilderness.

I’m sure you can blame TM, but one further thing to consider:
TM increased her vote to 13,636,684 votes an increase of 5.5% on 2015

In Dec boris got 13,966,451 votes only a 1.2% increase on 2017.

A difference of 329,767 and you claimed it was the floating voters that found Corbyn unelectable, you could also use that statement to say boris was less popular than TM with tory voters.
		
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I refer myself to the honourable gentleman Socket rockets post. At the last GE 2019, Labour never got a bloody nose, they got there head kicked in.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I refer myself to the honourable gentleman Socket rockets post. At the last GE 2019, Labour never got a bloody nos, they got there head kicked in.
		
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Tash, I give you more credit than that, you still haven’t answered my point to you and the quote you made.
Siding with a troll does nothing for your credibility.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

Paul don’t get me wrong re Labour, there is no one more desperate than me for Labour to change. A strong Labour needs to challenge the Tories. A line needs to be drawn under Corbyn years and the Party needs to move on. if lessons are not learned the Tories will be in for a generation.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Paul don’t get me wrong re Labour, there is no one more desperate than me for Labour to change. A strong Labour needs to challenge the Tories. A line needs to be drawn under Corbyn years and the Party needs to move on. if lessons are not learned the Tories will be in for a generation.
		
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And I’ve agreed and stated on here many times I’m no fan of Corbyn and the direction he and others took the Labour Party, but neither posts explain you saying about the wilderness, it just didn’t make sense.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Tash, I give you more credit than that, you still haven’t answered my point to you and the quote you made.
Siding with a troll does nothing for your credibility.
		
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As an ex miner I have had more promises from Labour than I care to remember. Yet when you look at the bottom line. Labour shut  as many pits as the Tories did. Labour stole as much money from my pension as the Tories did and still do. Not only that the Labour Party could of righted a wrong re my pension, they didn’t. So when Jeremy comes along, people like me are all ears.
It always seemed to me that Labour were always waiting for the Tories to self implode rather than win votes on there manifestos. Don’t get me wrong it nearly happened a few time’s. But the more you heard about Jeremy the more you became disconnected from Him. I said this before the last election and I am still saying it. The problem for Jeremy and the Labour Party is that hundreds of thousands of other working class voters feel exactly the same.
So where does that leave Jeremy and Labour. For me, him hanging around will do more damage than good for the party. Re the electorate, he has nothing left to offer. Him, DA, JM need to step aside not just for the good of the party but the good of the country.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			As an ex miner I have had more promises from Labour than I care to remember. Yet when you look at the bottom line. Labour shut  as many pits as the Tories did. Labour stole as much money from my pension as the Tories did and still do. Not only that the Labour Party could of righted a wrong re my pension, they didn’t. So when Jeremy comes along, people like me are all ears.
It always seemed to me that Labour were always waiting for the Tories to self implode rather than win votes on there manifestos. Don’t get me wrong it nearly happened a few time’s. But the more you heard about Jeremy the more you became disconnected from Him. I said this before the last election and I am still saying it. The problem for Jeremy and the Labour Party is that hundreds of thousands of other working class voters feel exactly the same.
So where does that leave Jeremy and Labour. For me, him hanging around will do more damage than good for the party. Re the electorate, he has nothing left to offer. Him, DA, JM need to step aside not just for the good of the party but the good of the country.
		
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You’ve said all this before Tash and I agree he needs gone, obviously you have no intention of addressing the only point I questioned you on.
Have a nice evening.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			And I’ve agreed and stated on here many times I’m no fan of Corbyn and the direction he and others took the Labour Party, but neither posts explain you saying about the wilderness, it just didn’t make sense.
		
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in 2015, Jeremy Corbyn took over as leader. the Tories had a majority of 12 seats.
in 2017, after a couple of years of Tory in fighting the Tories had a minority of 5.
in 2019, The Tories had a majority of 80 seats.

That is a proper arse kicking.

However let’s look at Corbyn and not the party.
Between 1997 and 2010 he defied his own party/ the whip 428 times, the most of any Labour MP. He could not even support his own party.
In the 2010 party leadership race, he put his support behind Diane Abbot. Sweet mother Mary and Jesus, that alone is enough to question his ability to judge and lead.
In June 2016, he lost a vote of no confidence in him by a massive 172-40. Yet he stayed on as he said the vote had no “constitutional legitimacy". He was told by nigh on 80% of his Labour mps he was not fit to lead the party but ignores them.
Do I have to mention his inability to deal with anti Semitic.
What about his willing the UK to leave NATO. Furthermore an end to NATO.
What about Corbyn opposing a motion by Harringey to offer support to British troops during the falklands war.
what about Corbyn opposing NATOs involvement in Kosovo ( and the stopping of further genocide).
what about Corbyns  stance on Venezuela, 

The list re this odious man both in the UK and the rest of the world makes Trump look intelligent. Google Corbyn on Wikipedia.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You’ve said all this before Tash and I agree he needs gone, obviously you have no intention of addressing the only point I questioned you on.
Have a nice evening.

Click to expand...

Addressed , it just takes time to find the answers to your question 👍 

hope that explains why people could not vote for him.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			in 2015, Jeremy Corbyn took over as leader. the Tories had a majority of 12 seats.
in 2017, after a couple of years of Tory in fighting the Tories had a minority of 5.
in 2019, The Tories had a majority of 80 seats.

That is a proper arse kicking.

However let’s look at Corbyn and not the party.
Between 1997 and 2010 he defied his own party/ the whip 428 times, the most of any Labour MP. He could not even support his own party.
In the 2010 party leadership race, he put his support behind Diane Abbot. Sweet mother Mary and Jesus, that alone is enough to question his ability to judge and lead.
In June 2016, he lost a vote of no confidence in him by a massive 172-40. Yet he stayed on as he said the vote had no “constitutional legitimacy". He was told by nigh on 80% of his Labour mps he was not fit to lead the party but ignores them.
Do I have to mention his inability to deal with anti Semitic.
What about his willing the UK to leave NATO. Furthermore an end to NATO.
What about Corbyn opposing a motion by Harringey to offer support to British troops during the falklands war.
what about Corbyn opposing NATOs involvement in Kosovo ( and the stopping of further genocide).
what about Corbyns  stance on Venezuela,

The list re this odious man both in the UK and the rest of the world makes Trump look intelligent. Google Corbyn on Wikipedia.
		
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Mate, just accept your statement was garbage, you were on about his time as Leader, I fully agree with you on 2019 GE, the above is simply white noise, I don’t know if you’re trying to convince me or yourself.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Mate, just accept your statement was garbage, you were on about his time as Leader, I fully agree with you on 2019 GE, the above is simply white noise, I don’t know if you’re trying to convince me or yourself.
		
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going from an opposition position of 12 seat majority to 80 is not progress.

like Ave said many a time politics in this country is up poo st. The Tories will not change until the Labour Party does. Until Corbyn is gone, the party cannot move on. That’s my view, will I convince anyone on here.I very much doubt it as everyone’s circumstances are different.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			going from an opposition position of 12 seat majority to 80 is not progress.

like Ave said many a time politics in this country is up poo st. The Tories will not change until the Labour Party does. Until Corbyn is gone, the party cannot move on. That’s my view, will I convince anyone on here.I very much doubt it as everyone’s circumstances are different.
		
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Almost everyone, even the most ardent Labour supporters on here agree he needs to go and he is.
No one has claimed going from 12 seats to 80 is progress.
But back to the original point you saying 2015-2019 was years of wilderness is not correct.


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## Kellfire (Feb 21, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Unfortunately the fact remains he was a massive reason why Labour got tanked at the last election. Him getting a position in any shadow cabinet would be a massive own goal and would be confirmation that the left wing of Labours politics has not gone away.
		
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Why would Labour want to move away from left wing politics when that’s exactly what they’re meant to stand for?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Why would Labour want to move away from left wing politics when that’s exactly what they’re meant to stand for?
		
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1/ It is the degree of left wing

2/ Do they want to be in power? It is the question Blair asked, do you want to be a pressure group or do you want to be in power to make genuine change for the good (not word for word quote)


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## Kellfire (Feb 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			1/ It is the degree of left wing

2/ Do they want to be in power? It is the question Blair asked, do you want to be a pressure group or do you want to be in power to make genuine change for the good (not word for word quote)
		
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If they didn’t have left wing policies, they wouldn’t be doing the good I want from them.


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## Old Skier (Feb 21, 2020)

Unfortunately they are now controlled by the extreme left


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## Kellfire (Feb 21, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Unfortunately they are now controlled by the extreme left
		
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I don’t think they are that extreme, they just seem that way to many people because there’s been a massive shift towards people being bigoted and selfish in their politics.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 21, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Unfortunately they are now controlled by the extreme left
		
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In the same way people could argue The Conservatives are controlled by and pander to very right wing ideology.  It's all relative...


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			If they didn’t have left wing policies, they wouldn’t be doing the good I want from them.
		
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What good can they do in opposition?

How about they go centre left and then they may actually get to put some policies into effect that are closer to your wants than a Conservative govt? If they hold onto their current path then you will be stuck with a Conservative govt for the next X number of years as there are simply not enough people in the UK who agree with them in their current guise.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			What good can they do in opposition?

How about they go centre left and then they may actually get to put some policies into effect that are closer to your wants than a Conservative govt? If they hold onto their current path then you will be stuck with a Conservative govt for the next X number of years as there are simply not enough people in the UK who agree with them in their current guise.
		
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Because people on the whole are scared of the bogeyman, the last election came down to Brexit and Labour losing itself.

Added to Brexit that boris was the lesser of 2 evils as far as a lot of people were concerned.

If the next 5 years are productive, good for the Country etc then the Labour policies will be largely irrelevant, if boris makes a pigs ear of it, other parties have a chance.

We’ll always have hard Labour, hard tory, soft Labour, soft tory, the ones in the middles who are looking after No1 are the votes that make the difference.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 21, 2020)

It is interesting (to me at least) that in the states many Democratic strategists and supporters point to Corbyn and what happened to Labour at the last election, when they discuss what might happen to the Dems in the coming presidential election were Bernie Sanders to be the Democratic Party candidate.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			In the same way people could argue The Conservatives are controlled by and pander to very right wing ideology.  It's all relative...
		
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This I think is very true re right wing Tories. Which leaves Joe Public in a very difficult position. Jezzas left wing Labour, or Bojos right wing Tory. Probably why Joe public thinks that re politics, The lunatics have taken over the asylum. The day Labour get more central will be the day Joe Public will start to trust them again. Me finks.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			I don’t think they are that extreme, they just seem that way to many people because there’s been a massive shift towards people being bigoted and selfish in their politics.
		
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That is applicable to the left of politics just as much as the right.  I would put it to you that politics in this country is no where near right wing.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			We’ll always have hard Labour, hard tory, soft Labour, soft tory, *the ones in the middles* who are looking after No1 *are the votes that make the difference*.
		
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I don't agree that being in the middle means you are looking after no 1 but I do agree that the people in the middle hold the balance of power in this country. They are the people you need to bring on board. Boris did, Jeremy didn't. To beat Boris next time Labour need a leader that is not a clone of Jeremy or the same will happen again.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 21, 2020)

Being fairly hard left for a player of golf, I'm not a big believer in "the middle."

The male anatomy makes straddling a fence pretty uncomfortable.

Pick a side for Christ's sake.

I'm all in on Bernie here on this side of the pond.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't agree that being in the middle means you are looking after no 1 but I do agree that the people in the middle hold the balance of power in this country. They are the people you need to bring on board. Boris did, Jeremy didn't. To beat Boris next time Labour need a leader that is not a clone of Jeremy or the same will happen again.
		
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How did boris bring them on board?

As for looking after No1, I mean those with no loyalty to either and will decide what’s best for them.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Being fairly hard left for a player of golf, I'm not a big believer in "the middle."

The male anatomy makes straddling a fence pretty uncomfortable.

Pick a side for Christ's sake.

I'm all in on Bernie here on this side of the pond.
		
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every days a skool day YOB. Dont straddle it, sit on it👍😁


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## Hobbit (Feb 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't agree that being in the middle means you are looking after no 1 but I do agree that the people in the middle hold the balance of power in this country. They are the people you need to bring on board. Boris did, Jeremy didn't. To beat Boris next time Labour need a leader that is not a clone of Jeremy or the same will happen again.
		
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I think Boris brought some onboard. Equally, some Tory supporters may have decided "no" to Boris for similar reasons that some decided on "no" for Corbyn. Although the majority of my voting life I voted Labour I'd class myself as a floating voter. My choices in the main came down to policies and trust. Can't say I've ever agreed with every policy on every manifesto for any party I've voted for but I've looked to support what I believe to be a balanced manifesto. That means there might be the odd painful promise in there but that'll be more than balanced out by other policies.

One thing I've never been Tory on is taxation. I don't think the current system is really fair, or perhaps it just needs a major overhaul and greater transparency. However, if someone had come to me and said "we're hiking your tax by 5% but that full 5% would be spent on social care and the NHS" I'd have been all for it.

As for Corbyn and Momentum; yesterday's news that hopefully just going through its final 'death throes.' I hope Labour become more centre left and put a package together that people can believe in, and that they regain the trust of voters. If they do, they'll get my vote.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How did boris bring them on board?

As for looking after No1, I mean those with no loyalty to either and will decide what’s best for them.
		
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Boris managed partly to appeal to more people but I think largely Labour put out a manifesto that people did not believe in or thought had credibility. Being 'not Jeremy ' was enough. A better opposition leader could have wiped the floor with him but neither he nor Jo Swinson were up to it.

I think you are still being harsh with middle voters. Maybe they decide what is best not just for them but wider than that. Better that, to judge each election, than blindly voting the same way no matter who is put in front of you.


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## DRW (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			How did boris bring them on board?

As for looking after No1, I mean those with no loyalty to either and will decide what’s best for them.
		
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Genuine question, why should the public have any loyalty to one party ?

For example labour have changed massively over the years(sometimes swinging between elections), that I have been a voter. If you can not see that, then pass.

in 2019, some of the policies they put forward,  were just plain mad, bit like old labour of the early 80s(ish guess). They lost my vote on that basis, nothing really to do with tories or JC etc.

I can understand that someone leans more left, but that doesn't mean I would ever support a far left leaning labour party. I would rather vote LDems or another party or not vote at all.

I am one of those floating voters tbh. Get the impression from some people, that some think that is actually wrong and that those people are just voting looking after myself, which is not the way I vote. Policies have to make sense and be workable in the real world.

Loyalty and politics do not go hand in hand. And never understood, why someone will just follow a party/leader, just because due it being called Labour or Cons, LD or SNP, irrelevant of their policies.


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## Captainron (Feb 21, 2020)

JC has stuffed the Labour Party. The last election result showed how much people mistrust the guy and his policies. It’s a moot point though because he’s a nobody now.


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## Hobbit (Feb 21, 2020)

DRW said:



			Genuine question, why should the public have any loyalty to one party ?

For example labour have changed massively over the years(sometimes swinging between elections), that I have been a voter. If you can not see that, then pass.

in 2019, some of the policies they put forward,  were just plain mad, bit like old labour of the early 80s(ish guess). They lost my vote on that basis, nothing really to do with tories or JC etc.

I can understand that someone leans more left, but that doesn't mean I would ever support a far left leaning labour party. I would rather vote LDems or another party or not vote at all.

I am one of those floating voters tbh. Get the impression from some people, that some think that is actually wrong and that those people are just voting looking after myself, which is not the way I vote. Policies have to make sense and be workable in the real world.

Loyalty and politics do not go hand in hand. And never understood, why someone will just follow a party/leader, just because due it being called Labour or Cons, LD or SNP, irrelevant of their policies.

Click to expand...

Spot on!

Some might vote for a donkey with a red rosette, others might vote for a (blue) gin swilling Colonel Blimp. Yoghurt knitters might vote for a vegan tree. Everyone has different motivators. Each party needs to try and remain close to its roots but also capture the floating voters on their periphery. 

Most voters vote for what they want, even if that's just little change. It rarely makes them selfish, it just means they want something, perhaps, different from me. Their choice, no problem with it.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2020)

3 Answers above and not one explaining how boris was better for us.

The answer is always (currently) Labour was bad.

Now, I’m not defending how Labour fought the GE or how it needed to get rid of Corbyn, McDonnell etc, it’s just a fact that I see no one defending the tories and telling us all about their positives.


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## patricks148 (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			3 Answers above and not one explaining how boris was better for us.

The answer is always (currently) Labour was bad.

Now, I’m not defending how Labour fought the GE or how it needed to get rid of Corbyn, McDonnell etc, it’s just a fact that I see no one defending the tories and telling us all about their positives.
		
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yep. all these people asking for middle of the road.. if thats what they wanted why didn't the vote Lib...?   simple... the belived the crap sprouted by the tories and the I'm all right jack mentality now prevalant


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2020)

DRW said:



*Genuine question, why should the public have any loyalty to one party ?*

For example labour have changed massively over the years(sometimes swinging between elections), that I have been a voter. If you can not see that, then pass.

in 2019, some of the policies they put forward,  were just plain mad, bit like old labour of the early 80s(ish guess). They lost my vote on that basis, nothing really to do with tories or JC etc.

I can understand that someone leans more left, but that doesn't mean I would ever support a far left leaning labour party. I would rather vote LDems or another party or not vote at all.

I am one of those floating voters tbh. Get the impression from some people, that some think that is actually wrong and that those people are just voting looking after myself, which is not the way I vote. Policies have to make sense and be workable in the real world.

Loyalty and politics do not go hand in hand. And never understood, why someone will just follow a party/leader, just because due it being called Labour or Cons, LD or SNP, irrelevant of their policies.

Click to expand...

Just re-read the post and seen your question.

Where did I say they should? The fact is, some people are that loyal, put a red rosette on a do or a blue rosette on a dog and some people would still vote for them.

Many will vote differently in local to national elections.

So no one is saying the public should or shouldn’t have loyalty to one party, the fact is, some are.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			3 Answers above and not one explaining how boris was better for us.

The answer is always (currently) Labour was bad.

Now, I’m not defending how Labour fought the GE or how it needed to get rid of Corbyn, McDonnell etc, it’s just a fact that I see no one defending the tories and telling us all about their positives.
		
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I can't tell you that Boris is better, I can't give you Tory positives. It was the worst election I've ever experienced for the choice to make. I can only tell you what I heard over and over, from interviews on the TV, radio, friends, relatives etc. Jeremy and his policies were a worse option than boris. Boris was the least worst option of the two. That doesn't mean there were positives, just fewer negatives.

Thinking on, there was one positive, depending on your viewpoint . The Tories took a clear stance on Brexit, vote for us and they will enact the referendum. We now have a level of clarity that did not exist before, it has allowed the country to move on. 

Dont ask for a second though 😁


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 21, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			yep. all these people asking for middle of the road.. if thats what they wanted why didn't the vote Lib...?   simple... the belived the crap sprouted by the tories and the I'm all right jack mentality now prevalant
		
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Too many saw the LibDem stance on Brexit as anti democratic, keeping the turmoil going on for longer. They should have picked up disaffected labour voters but I think that policy scuppered them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't tell you that Boris is better, I can't give you Tory positives. It was the worst election I've ever experienced for the choice to make. I can only tell you what I heard over and over, from interviews on the TV, radio, friends, relatives etc. Jeremy and his policies were a worse option than boris. Boris was the least worst option of the two. That doesn't mean there were positives, just fewer negatives.

Thinking on, there was one positive, depending on your viewpoint . The Tories took a clear stance on Brexit, vote for us and they will enact the referendum. We now have a level of clarity that did not exist before, it has allowed the country to move on.

Dont ask for a second though 😁
		
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Which is sort of what I said in post #182.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			yep. all these people asking for middle of the road.. if thats what they wanted why didn't the vote Lib...?   simple... the belived the crap sprouted by the tories and the I'm all right jack mentality now prevalant
		
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Probably because they didnt buy into the LibDem anti democratic stance on Brexit and their leader was poor.


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## Dando (Feb 21, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Probably because they didnt buy into the LibDem anti democratic stance on Brexit and their leader was poor.
		
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And her dress sense was 🤢


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2020)

Dando said:



			And her dress sense was 🤢
		
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True 🤔


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## Hobbit (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			3 Answers above and not one explaining how boris was better for us.

The answer is always (currently) Labour was bad.

Now, I’m not defending how Labour fought the GE or how it needed to get rid of Corbyn, McDonnell etc, it’s just a fact that I see no one defending the tories and telling us all about their positives.
		
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The lesser of the evils?

I chose not to vote. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for any of them, not even the lesser of the evils, whichever that was for any particular person.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			The lesser of the evils?

I chose not to vote. I couldn’t in good conscience vote for any of them, not even the lesser of the evils, whichever that was for any particular person.
		
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I, genuinely, don’t know what would be shown on your ballot paper, whether it’s the last place you were registered or just parties.
But I personally don’t believe not voting or spoiling a ballot paper is the right thing to do, so I chose on who best to represent the local area as MP.


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## Hobbit (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I, genuinely, don’t know what would be shown on your ballot paper, whether it’s the last place you were registered or just parties.
But I personally don’t believe not voting or spoiling a ballot paper is the right thing to do, so I chose on who best to represent the local area as MP.
		
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Some say everyone should vote because people fought to get that vote. I reconcile that by thinking they fought for the freedom of choice. Some of those who fought to achieve the vote may think differently to me, and I don't have a problem with that. After all, politics is about the freedom to chose who you want to be represented by. And if there's no one, or no manifesto or party that a person is comfortable with why not a "none of the above" on the ballot paper.

I would like to think that, especially in marginals, parties recognise that a turnout of, say, 60% will mean they know they need to attract those that didn't vote. And apart from the real diehard constituencies most parties must realise that although they were first past the post, less than 50% of voters voted for them.

As for what would show on a ballot paper sent to me here in Spain. I have the right to vote for 15 years after leaving the UK, and it is the constituency I last lived in. In that respect, the "local MP" can't do anything for me other than represent me on national interests. Should I vote when I don't live there? Decisions made in Westminster impact me here, e.g. Brexit and the ongoing trade negotiations. Also, I have children and grandchildren whose futures I care about. However, why should my choices impact on people in the UK. Voting whilst not living there is also an uncomfortable choice.


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## ger147 (Feb 22, 2020)

There is a very simple reason why "none of the above" could never appear on a UK election ballot paper.

When "none of the above" wins a landslide victory at the general election, who will run the country...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			Some say everyone should vote because people fought to get that vote. I reconcile that by thinking they fought for the freedom of choice. Some of those who fought to achieve the vote may think differently to me, and I don't have a problem with that. After all, politics is about the freedom to chose who you want to be represented by. And if there's no one, or no manifesto or party that a person is comfortable with why not a "none of the above" on the ballot paper.

I would like to think that, especially in marginals, parties recognise that a turnout of, say, 60% will mean they know they need to attract those that didn't vote. And apart from the real diehard constituencies most parties must realise that although they were first past the post, less than 50% of voters voted for them.

As for what would show on a ballot paper sent to me here in Spain. I have the right to vote for 15 years after leaving the UK, and it is the constituency I last lived in. In that respect, the "local MP" can't do anything for me other than represent me on national interests. Should I vote when I don't live there? Decisions made in Westminster impact me here, e.g. Brexit and the ongoing trade negotiations. Also, I have children and grandchildren whose futures I care about. However, why should my choices impact on people in the UK. Voting whilst not living there is also an uncomfortable choice.
		
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Like I put, not voting or spoiling a ballot paper doesn’t sit right with me, I fully respect the decision others make, that’s their call.

I have more of an issue with those who simply behave like sheep or believe everything they read in the papers(regardless of political persuasion).


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## SocketRocket (Feb 22, 2020)

I voted Conservative and like the way they are operating. Including Boris.

Baaaaaaa!


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## MegaSteve (Feb 22, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			Some say everyone should vote because people fought to get that vote. I reconcile that by thinking they fought for the freedom of choice. Some of those who fought to achieve the vote may think differently to me, and I don't have a problem with that. After all, politics is about the freedom to chose who you want to be represented by. And if there's no one, or no manifesto or party that a person is comfortable with why not a "none of the above" on the ballot paper.

I would like to think that, especially in marginals, parties recognise that a turnout of, say, 60% will mean they know they need to attract those that didn't vote. And apart from the real diehard constituencies most parties must realise that although they were first past the post, less than 50% of voters voted for them.

As for what would show on a ballot paper sent to me here in Spain. I have the right to vote for 15 years after leaving the UK, and it is the constituency I last lived in. In that respect, the "local MP" can't do anything for me other than represent me on national interests. Should I vote when I don't live there? Decisions made in Westminster impact me here, e.g. Brexit and the ongoing trade negotiations. Also, I have children and grandchildren whose futures I care about. However, why should my choices impact on people in the UK. Voting whilst not living there is also an uncomfortable choice.
		
Click to expand...


Might, in the future, that some consideration should be given to creating a 'constituency' for those living/residing overseas... Seems to me that Westminster can impact on their lives with little or no access to placing input from those folk...


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## chrisd (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I have more of an issue with those who simply behave like sheep or believe everything they read in the papers(regardless of political persuasion).
		
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Why would you have any issue with anyone Paul - how, or why, anyone votes is entirely their free choice and its entirely their choice as to what influences that decision.


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## Hobbit (Feb 22, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Why would you have any issue with anyone Paul - how, or why, anyone votes is entirely their free choice and its entirely their choice as to what influences that decision.
		
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I think I would have a concern with the way someone voted if it was for a very extreme candidate. Would we want to see a bunch of Tommy Robinsons being voted in and being given airtime?


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## chrisd (Feb 22, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			I think I would have a concern with the way someone voted if it was for a very extreme candidate. Would we want to see a bunch of Tommy Robinsons being voted in and being given airtime?
		
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No, I wouldn't Brian but if you chose to vote for him I wouldn't have an issue with that. I would just hope that the majority wouldnt choose to vote for him. I'd certainly start to worry as to where politics was heading if such a candidate was really going to challenge for a seat


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Why would you have any issue with anyone Paul - how, or why, anyone votes is entirely their free choice and its entirely their choice as to what influences that decision.
		
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Because it makes a nonsense out of Democracy, vote for who you like if you’ve given it enough thought, but simply voting (insert any Party here) because my dad/mum or me mates etc told me too, is a waste of a vote imo.

I see it up here all the time, voting Labour because Maggie closed the pits, no issue if you lived during that period but those in the early 20’s saying it annoys me, the world and politics has moved on.


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## chrisd (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Because it makes a nonsense out of Democracy, vote for who you like if you’ve given it enough thought, but simply voting (insert any Party here) because my dad/mum or me mates etc told me too, is a waste of a vote imo.

I see it up here all the time, voting Labour because Maggie closed the pits, no issue if you lived during that period but those in the early 20’s saying it annoys me, the world and politics has moved on.
		
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But that is exactly what democracy is - their views may be wrong, I see it all the time with criticism of the greatest PM in my lifetime but they have the right to be wrong


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

chrisd said:



			But that is exactly what democracy is - their views may be wrong, I see it all the time with criticism of the greatest PM in my lifetime but they have the right to be wrong
		
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It’s not a view of theirs though Chris, it’s someone else’s foisted upon them, which they accept simply because they are too idle or lazy to take an interest in their own future and the future of the Country.

I’m not for one minute saying my point of view is correct, it’s just the way I experience it sometimes up here.


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## chrisd (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			It’s not a view of theirs though Chris, it’s someone else’s foisted upon them, which they accept simply because they are too idle or lazy to take an interest in their own future and the future of the Country.

I’m not for one minute saying my point of view is correct, it’s just the way I experience it sometimes up here.
		
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I'm sure you do Paul as everyone does, wherever they live, but sadly even the ignorant are entitled to their (or their parents) opinion. You cant also know whether they'd vote the same way even if they weren't indoctrinated by their parents.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2020)

chrisd said:



			I'm sure you do Paul as everyone does, wherever they live, but sadly even the ignorant are entitled to their (or their parents) opinion. You cant also know whether they'd vote the same way even if they weren't indoctrinated by their parents.
		
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I’ve never said they’re not entitled to an opinion, just that I have an issue with how they form that opinion, surely I’m just as much entitled to my opinion as they are with theirs.


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## chrisd (Feb 22, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			I’ve never said they’re not entitled to an opinion, just that I have an issue with how they form that opinion, surely I’m just as much entitled to my opinion as they are with theirs.
		
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Of course you are, and you both vote according to your own beliefs


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1231119431562121217
I’m surprised the current government Ba haven’t done something in regards the floods - I guess it needs to happen in London first


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1231119431562121217
I’m surprised the current government Ba haven’t done something in regards the floods -* I guess it needs to happen in London firs*t
		
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I think there need's to be an election coming up....


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 23, 2020)

Just listened to Richard Burgon on 5 live with his spiel to be deputy Labour leader.  And he seems to blame their election loss on the nasty newspapers and a little bit of Brexit. Nothing to do with their policies or Corbyn.  Think if he gets elected along side his favoured leader Rebecca Long Bailey we'll be in for another decade of Tory government.  God help us.


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## chrisd (Feb 23, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			I think there need's to be an election coming up....
		
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Or perhaps JC has just acquired a dehumidifier hire company and was touting for business?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Or perhaps JC has just acquired a dehumidifier hire company and was touting for business?
		
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Getting yourself quite a little fan club on here Chris.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 23, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			I think there need's to be an election coming up....
		
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Im sure these people with flooded homes feel so much better now having seen Jezzer's Fizzog


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## SocketRocket (Feb 23, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Getting yourself quite a little fan club on here Chris.

Click to expand...

He posts things that are funny.  Maybe you should try it


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 23, 2020)

Bad news for those posters desperate to ignore any failings of the Tory party as a Labour shadow minister once got her sums wrong https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51607512


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## 2blue (Feb 23, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			Bad news for those posters desperate to ignore any failings of the Tory party as a Labour shadow minister once got her sums wrong https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51607512

Click to expand...

Could be remembered for this..........
*Ms Abbott, MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, said she would be returning to the backbenchers "where there's an awful lot to do".

Ms Abbott was the first black female to be elected to Parliament in 1987.

She made history in October 2019 by becoming the first black MP at the dispatch box at Prime Minister's Questions, in place of Mr Corbyn.*

However the dib, dibbers of this world would rather concentrate on her numbers gaff.

Yes, sadly they reflect the sad state of Britain lead by a cowardly, lying Tory-toad with his errored numbers on buses & new hospitals built.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 23, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			Just listened to Richard Burgon on 5 live with his spiel to be deputy Labour leader.  And he seems to blame their election loss on the nasty newspapers and a little bit of Brexit. Nothing to do with their policies or Corbyn.  Think if he gets elected along side his favoured leader Rebecca Long Bailey we'll be in for another decade of Tory government.  God help us.
		
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I see Diane abacus has stepped down from the shadow cabinet. One step forward for the Labour Party. She said “ she will fight to prevent the Labour Party going to the right” two steps back for the Labour Party. She also says she will be supporting RLB. Who some say is a female JC. Another step backwards. Seems nowt changes.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 23, 2020)

2blue said:



			Could be remembered for this..........
*Ms Abbott, MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, said she would be returning to the backbenchers "where there's an awful lot to do".*

*Ms Abbott was the first black female to be elected to Parliament in 1987.*

*She made history in October 2019 by becoming the first black MP at the dispatch box at Prime Minister's Questions, in place of Mr Corbyn.*

However the dib, dibbers of this world would rather concentrate on her numbers gaff.

Yes, sadly they reflect the sad state of Britain lead by a cowardly, lying Tory-toad with his errored numbers on buses & new hospitals built. 

Click to expand...

You seem to be getting your dibs confused with dybs and dibbers with dobs, never mind its silly but fades into insignificance compared to Ms Abacus and her gaffs.  
How many of Abbott's Policemen does it take to screw in a light bulb?  Answer: As many as you like at £50 a year.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 24, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			I see Diane abacus has stepped down from the shadow cabinet. One step forward for the Labour Party. She said “ she will fight to prevent the Labour Party going to the right” two steps back for the Labour Party. She also says she will be supporting RLB. Who some say is a female JC. Another step backwards. Seems nowt changes.
		
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The last time the party moved to the right they mucked over folks pension pots... Think we should remain mindful of that...


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## 2blue (Feb 24, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			The last time the party moved to the right they mucked over folks pension pots... Think we should remain mindful of that...
		
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And the last mid-century move to the right by a cowardly egotistical nutter, caused a fair bit of trouble as well.... reason to be even more mindful 😒😒


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## Hobbit (Feb 24, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			The last time the party moved to the right they mucked over folks pension pots... Think we should remain mindful of that...
		
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That's relative. A move to the right could still see them left of centre. There's plenty of room between where they are now and where the Tories are. Shouldn't be too difficult to find ground that satisfies the majority of the party and attracts many of the voters they lost plus the floaters. 

One thing's for sure, they have to move away from their current position.


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			That's relative. A move to the right could still see them left of centre. There's plenty of room between where they are now and where the Tories are. Shouldn't be too difficult to find ground that satisfies the majority of the party and attracts many of the voters they lost plus the floaters.

One thing's for sure, they have to move away from their current position.
		
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when you say satisfy the party who do you mean? because the labour party memembers unanimously voted for a more socialst left wing direction and i imagine still would.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			That's relative. A move to the right could still see them left of centre. There's plenty of room between where they are now and where the Tories are. Shouldn't be too difficult to find ground that satisfies the majority of the party and attracts many of the voters they lost plus the floaters.

One thing's for sure, they have to move away from their current position.
		
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For them to win the keys to number 10. 👍


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			when you say satisfy the party who do you mean? because the labour party memembers unanimously voted for a more socialst left wing direction and i imagine still would.
		
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Hence why I unfortunately think they have gone three steps backwards. Diane Abbott counting 😉


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Hence why I unfortunately think they have gone three steps backwards. Diane Abbott counting 😉
		
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wasn't it you complaing about the more middle ground Tory light policies of TB and new labour dipping your pension?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 24, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			Just listened to Richard Burgon on 5 live with his spiel to be deputy Labour leader.  And he seems to blame their election loss on the nasty newspapers and a little bit of Brexit. Nothing to do with their policies or Corbyn.  Think if he gets elected along side his favoured leader Rebecca Long Bailey we'll be in for another decade of Tory government.  God help us.
		
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for me - Long Bailey and Burgeon would be a gruesome twosome. 

Wondering whether Labour activists and members outside Scotland realise that they have to win 30+ seats in Scotland if they are going to have any chance of winning a Westminster GE.  I have a fair bit of time for what Ian Murray and what he says and suspect that there a plenty Scots voters who might think the same...but will English Labour realise they might well need Murray as Dep Leader to have a chance of making any impact in Scotland.  All very well waiting for the SNP to implode - but it will take one heck of an implosion and rejection by the Scots electorate for Labour to get 30+ seats.  At the moment there is possibly more chance of the Tories getting that number...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			wasn't it you complaing about the more middle ground Tory light policies of TB and new labour dipping your pension?
		
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I suppose another Iraq War would be good for recruitment and then they can cause another bank crash, plus change the laws on freeing terrorists early and repeat all the other things they are still blamed for.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Hence why I unfortunately think they have gone three steps backwards. Diane Abbott counting 😉
		
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Oh it was, but they both dibbed into my pension. Does it have to be a left wing Labour that will sort it out. That aside pension is one circumstance. When voting, I had a choice between what’s best to get my pension sorted or the future of this country under comrade Corbyn. Corbyn and my pension lost. I put the future of you first Patrick 😉


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## MegaSteve (Feb 24, 2020)

2blue said:



			And the last mid-century move to the right by a cowardly egotistical nutter, caused a fair bit of trouble as well.... reason to be even more mindful 😒😒
		
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My post was intended for Tashy… AS he has previously had a penchant for raising Browns targeted pillaging of the miner's pension fund...


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## MegaSteve (Feb 24, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			That's relative. A move to the right could still see them left of centre. There's plenty of room between where they are now and where the Tories are. Shouldn't be too difficult to find ground that satisfies the majority of the party and attracts many of the voters they lost plus the floaters.

One thing's for sure, they have to move away from their current position.
		
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Number one priority, for the party, is too resume listening and stop dictating... Worse still has been the inflammatory language against many of the ordinary folk who have always been 'natural' supporters of the party...


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## MegaSteve (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			when you say satisfy the party who do you mean? because the labour party memembers unanimously voted for a more socialst left wing direction and i imagine still would.
		
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I would suggest, perhaps, overwhelmingly rather than "unanimously"...


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Oh it was, but they both dibbed into my pension. Does it have to be a left wing Labour that will sort it out. That aside pension is one circumstance. When voting, I had a choice between what’s best to get my pension sorted or the future of this country under comrade Corbyn. Corbyn and my pension lost. *I put the future of the rich  first *

Click to expand...

fixed that for you


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			fixed that for you

Click to expand...


Seems a Jeremy Corbyn agrees with you Patrick.
Once he retires, Mr Corbyn is predicted to receive a £1.6 million pension as part of the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund (PCPF).
On top of, Spear’s magazine - a bimonthly British magazine for high-net-worth individuals - reported the MP for Islington North has a net worth of £3 million.


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			Seems a Jeremy Corbyn agrees with you Patrick.
Once he retires, Mr Corbyn is predicted to receive a £1.6 million pension as part of the Parliamentary Contributory Pension Fund (PCPF).
On top of, Spear’s magazine - a bimonthly British magazine for high-net-worth individuals - reported the MP for Islington North has a net worth of £3 million.
		
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same as any other MP then?

 i would also check out the MP that are getting big salaries from consultancy work, most of those would be Conservative MP's though so you would be alright with that


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## Tashyboy (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			same as any other MP then?

i would also check out the MP that are getting big salaries from consultancy work, most of those would be Conservative MP's though so you would be alright with that

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No it’s just all the rich. 😁


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Tashyboy said:



			No it’s just all the rich. 😁
		
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as i thought then


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## Dando (Feb 24, 2020)

2blue said:



			Could be remembered for this..........
*Ms Abbott, MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, said she would be returning to the backbenchers "where there's an awful lot to do".*

*Ms Abbott was the first black female to be elected to Parliament in 1987.*

*She made history in October 2019 by becoming the first black MP at the dispatch box at Prime Minister's Questions, in place of Mr Corbyn.*

However the dib, dibbers of this world would rather concentrate on her numbers gaff.

Yes, sadly they reflect the sad state of Britain lead by a cowardly, lying Tory-toad with his errored numbers on buses & new hospitals built. 

Click to expand...

She could also be remembered for being racist!


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## Fade and Die (Feb 24, 2020)

2blue said:



			Could be remembered for this..........
*Ms Abbott, MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, said she would be returning to the backbenchers "where there's an awful lot to do".*

*Ms Abbott was the first black female to be elected to Parliament in 1987.*

*She made history in October 2019 by becoming the first black MP at the dispatch box at Prime Minister's Questions, in place of Mr Corbyn.*

However the dib, dibbers of this world would rather concentrate on her numbers gaff.

Yes, sadly they reflect the sad state of Britain lead by a cowardly, lying Tory-toad with his errored numbers on buses & new hospitals built. 

Click to expand...

Or you could remember her for these zingers....

*A defeat for the British state would be a great liberation*

*White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game.*

*I'm a West Indian mum and West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children. (Presume white mums don’t?)*

Horrible racist.


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## Dando (Feb 24, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Or you could remember her for these zingers....

*A defeat for the British state would be a great liberation*

*White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game.*

*I'm a West Indian mum and West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children. (Presume white mums don’t?)*

Horrible racist.
		
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to fair, she's been on the front benches for 12486456456 years


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			Or you could remember her for these zingers....

*A defeat for the British state would be a great liberation*

*White people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game.*

*I'm a West Indian mum and West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children. (Presume white mums don’t?)*

Horrible racist.
		
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look on the bright side at least shes not a terrible racist and been fired from multiple jobs for lying


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			look on the bright side at least shes not a terrible racist and been fired from multiple jobs for lying

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Careful mate, you can’t say that! You’ll have all the right wing bed wetters kicking off.


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## Hobbit (Feb 24, 2020)

Diane Abbott presided over the resolving of some difficult mental health initiatives in the NHS. She was also instrumental in great changes on the management of sickle cell care within the NHS. Yes she has some major gaffs, and I would agree that she's a racist, but she's a damn fine constituency MP and has done more on NHS initiatives than anyone else in the last 15 years.

Would I want here anywhere near a front bench, in power or in opposition? Hell no, but I doff my cap for what she has done in other areas.


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## Foxholer (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			when you say satisfy the party who do you mean? because* the labour party memembers unanimously voted for a more socialst left wing direction* and i imagine still would.
		
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Re the bot in bold...I know for a fact that's twaddle!
Majority perhaps; Unanimously certainly not!


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## Dando (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			look on the bright side at least shes not a terrible racist and been fired from multiple jobs for lying

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a racist is still a racist!


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## MegaSteve (Feb 24, 2020)

Dando said:



			a racist is still a racist!
		
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And, sadly, such a person is rooming in No 10 presently...
Can't be sure about the chap running our country... As he likes to stay hidden from too much public scrutiny...


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Dando said:



			a racist is still a racist!
		
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he sure is


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## Dando (Feb 24, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			he sure is

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so is Diane Abacus excused from being a racist then?


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## patricks148 (Feb 24, 2020)

Dando said:



			so is Diane Abacus excused from being a racist then?
		
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no one said she was, but if you are going to highlight racism all aspects of it should be challenged, not just those it suites your agenda to


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## SocketRocket (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Careful mate, you can’t say that! You’ll have all the right wing bed wetters kicking off.

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🤔 Do only people with right wing tendencies wet the bed, I would be interested on how you came to that theory. Wait a minute! Your being sarcastic arn't you, you naughty little lefty you.  I have to admit you are very incontinent with your views though 🤭


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 24, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			🤔 Do only people with right wing tendencies wet the bed, I would be interested on how you came to that theory. Wait a minute! Your being sarcastic arn't you, you naughty little lefty you.  I have to admit you are very incontinent with your views though 🤭
		
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Strange you didn’t ask Dando these questions and “liked” his posts when he called leavers Pant Wetters in the Brexit - The Negotiations thread.

Almost as if it’s ok when your political viewpoint aligns with the poster.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 24, 2020)

Hobbit said:



			Diane Abbott presided over the resolving of some difficult mental health initiatives in the NHS. She was also instrumental in great changes on the management of sickle cell care within the NHS. Yes she has some major gaffs, and I would agree that she's a racist, but she's a damn fine constituency MP and has done more on NHS initiatives than anyone else in the last 15 years.

Would I want here anywhere near a front bench, in power or in opposition? Hell no, but I doff my cap for what she has done in other areas.
		
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I could have written this word for word and totally agree with you. This could be the best thing all round. I don't think she's cut out for a cabinet/shadow cabinet job but by all accounts is a very good, or excellent, constituency MP. This move would give her more time to focus her efforts where they seem to be best suited and continue the good work she's known for doing while not so much in the public eye.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 24, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Strange you didn’t ask Dando these questions and “liked” his posts when he called leavers Pant Wetters in the Brexit - The Negotiations thread.

Almost as if it’s ok when your political viewpoint aligns with the poster.

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Oh dear, am i picking on you.  Seems like you are following my likes now.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 25, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			I could have written this word for word and totally agree with you. This could be the best thing all round. I don't think she's cut out for a cabinet/shadow cabinet job but by all accounts is a very good, or excellent, constituency MP. This move would give her more time to focus her efforts where they seem to be best suited and continue the good work she's known for doing while not so much in the public eye.
		
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Seems like DiAbb is standing down from her position as Shadow Home Secretary and won't be in the next Leader's Shadow Cabinet.  

But we need not worry - because our PM has in place the real McCoy as _actual _Home Secretary - with Priti Pratel getting pelters in the press at the moment for her alleged behaviour and demonstrable incompetencies in not really understanding her brief and the issues.  No matter - she sounds tough on immigration - tough on immigrants - and for her lovers that's all that matters.

Maybe given she's unlikely to be in any future position of power, we'll soon stop hearing the slagging off of DiAbb on the basis of her historical misspeaks and mistakes - as she heads to the Labour backbench.  Maybe instead we will hear these same voices from right stage start to express concern over the _real _Home Secretary.  But I will not be holding my breath in the waiting...


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## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Seems like DiAbb is standing down from her position as Shadow Home Secretary and won't be in the next Leader's Shadow Cabinet. 

But we need not worry - because our PM has in place the real McCoy as _actual _Home Secretary - with Priti Pratel getting pelters in the press at the moment for her alleged behaviour and demonstrable incompetencies in not really understanding her brief and the issues.  No matter - she sounds tough on immigration - tough on immigrants - and for her lovers that's all that matters.

Maybe given she's unlikely to be in any future position of power, we'll soon stop hearing the slagging off of DiAbb on the basis of her historical misspeaks and mistakes - as she heads to the Labour backbench.  Maybe instead we will hear these same voices from right stage start to express concern over the _real _Home Secretary.  But I will not be holding my breath in the waiting...
		
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Oh Dear!!  You're so funny, Haaaa.   You make comments from the Left attacking Priti Patel saying how incompetent she is and then criticise people who make posts from the Right criticising Diane Abbott for her incompetence.    Make your mind up or is it open season.


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## patricks148 (Feb 25, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Seems like DiAbb is standing down from her position as Shadow Home Secretary and won't be in the next Leader's Shadow Cabinet. 

But we need not worry - because our PM has in place the real McCoy as _actual _Home Secretary - with Priti Pratel getting pelters in the press at the moment for her alleged behaviour and demonstrable incompetencies in not really understanding her brief and the issues.  No matter - she sounds tough on immigration - tough on immigrants - and for her lovers that's all that matters.

Maybe given she's unlikely to be in any future position of power, we'll soon stop hearing the slagging off of DiAbb on the basis of her historical misspeaks and mistakes - as she heads to the Labour backbench.  Maybe instead we will hear these same voices from right stage start to express concern over the _real _Home Secretary.  But I will not be holding my breath in the waiting...
		
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someone who made a few gaffs compaired to a minister who has undisclosed talks with a foreign power and tried to divert aid funds to that countries military and made to resign and finds food banks and poverty amusing....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 25, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Oh Dear!!  You're so funny, Haaaa.   You make comments from the Left attacking Priti Patel saying how incompetent she is and then criticise people who make posts from the Right criticising Diane Abbott for her incompetence.    Make your mind up or is it open season.
		
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So you think Patel is a highly competent and trustworthy Home Secretary then.  Abbott has made mistakes and misspeaks in opposition as _Shadow_ Home Secretary,  Patel is the _actual_ Home Secretary and is being criticised left right and centre.  But you think she is Head Girl material?  Or maybe you don't.  But she _sounds _hard on immigration - hard on immigrants - so OK with you?   Any concerns with PP then?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So you think Patel is a highly competent and trustworthy Home Secretary then.  Abbott has made mistakes and misspeaks in opposition as _Shadow_ Home Secretary,  Patel is the _actual_ Home Secretary and is being criticised left right and centre.  But you think she is Head Girl material?  Or maybe you don't.  But she _sounds _hard on immigration - hard on immigrants - so OK with you?   Any concerns with PP then?
		
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Being hard on immigration is absolutely fine with me, we are overpopulated IMO and anything that has the chance of slowing that is worth while, especially if it filters out those we dont need having the RIGHT to reside here.
Regarding Patel herself, She has been the victim of criticism over her dealings with some Civil Servants, some of these claims appear to be stoked up by the left and without substance. She does seem to be following Cabinet policy of being more direct with Civil Servants and ensuring they are more in tune with and carrying out Government policy rather than what we have experienced for far too long where they want to be steering the car.   Good luck to her with that one, I would like to see some changes there.
Regarding 'Head Girl Material' I can only guess what you mean there, are you being misogynous?   Maybe not but you must chose your words carefully these days.   If you mean 'Is she Ministerial Material' then my answer would be a definite 'Yes'


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 25, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Being hard on immigration is absolutely fine with me, we are overpopulated IMO and anything that has the chance of slowing that is worth while, especially if it filters out those we dont need having the RIGHT to reside here.
Regarding Patel herself, She has been the victim of criticism over her dealings with some Civil Servants, some of these claims appear to be stoked up by the left and without substance. She does seem to be following Cabinet policy of being more direct with Civil Servants and ensuring they are more in tune with and carrying out Government policy rather than what we have experienced for far too long where they want to be steering the car.   Good luck to her with that one, I would like to see some changes there.
Regarding 'Head Girl Material' I can only guess what you mean there, are you being misogynous?   Maybe not but you must chose your words carefully these days.   If you mean 'Is she Ministerial Material' then my answer would be a definite 'Yes'
		
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Ah yes - overpopulated...of course we are, and the new immigration policy will sort that (wondering who's going to get kicked out to make UK less populated)

Anyway - on PP - all who think she is untrustworthy (proven) and in way out of her depth (almost without question) are wrong.

But DiAbb is fair game for abuse and denigration as she has misspoken or got things a bit muddled very occasionally.  Just as well that she's never held a cabinet position and is standing down when the new Labour Leader comes along.  Meanwhile PP will continue doing what she does best...erm...come on - she really isn't very good is she...not really...


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## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



*Ah yes - overpopulated...of course we are, and the new immigration policy will sort that (wondering who's going to get kicked out to make UK less populated) *

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   You didnt read my post, did you?
I said (and I quote)  _ "and anything that has the chance of *slowing that *is worth while, especially if it filters out those we dont need having the RIGHT to reside here"_

Do you not think we are overpopulated?  Really!


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## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

I'm not sure we are overpopulated but we don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with the current population.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			I'm not sure we are overpopulated but we don't have the infrastructure in place to deal with the current population.
		
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But doesn't that mean we are overpopulated?    OK, we could build houses all over the green belt but how do we feed, create employment, educate, keep healthy a population that increases by the size of a city like Leicester each year.  When resources become scarce, as they will, high population will be a mill stone.


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## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			But doesn't that mean we are overpopulated?    OK, we could build houses all over the green belt but how do we feed, create employment, educate, keep healthy a population that increases by the size of a city like Leicester each year.  When resources become scarce, as they will, high population will be a mill stone.
		
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Plenty of room in Scotland since the majority of Scots seemed to have moved down here 

PS, for those that don't recognise smilies and are easy to take offence, it was a joke.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Plenty of room in Scotland since the majority of Scots seemed to have moved down here 

PS, for those that don't recognise smilies and are easy to take offence, it was a joke.
		
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Well, I guess those Mars Bars aren't going to fry themselves


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## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			But doesn't that mean we are overpopulated?    OK, we could build houses all over the green belt but how do we feed, create employment, educate, keep healthy a population that increases by the size of a city like Leicester each year.  When resources become scarce, as they will, high population will be a mill stone.
		
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With something like 200,000 empty accommodation around still capacity without going into greenfield


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## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			With something like 200,000 empty accommodation around still capacity without going into greenfield
		
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There are plenty here already to fill those


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## Beezerk (Feb 25, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			But doesn't that mean we are overpopulated?    OK, we could build houses all over the green belt but how do we feed, create employment, educate, keep healthy a population that increases by the size of a city like Leicester each year.  When resources become scarce, as they will, high population will be a mill stone.
		
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You're not allowed to say we are overpopulated because that's racist innit.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 25, 2020)

Why is it that people who can afford it the least are most often the ones who procreate the most irresponsibly?
Perhaps all pregnancies should be licensed by the state.
A sterilization agent should be put into the general water supply.
Antidote tablets could be distributed by an expert government board which determines who is and isn't breeding material.

Perhaps I wouldn't be here, but that would have spared me as many travails as rewards.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Why is it that people who can afford it the least are most often the ones who procreate the most irresponsibly?
Perhaps all pregnancies should be licensed by the state.
*A sterilization agent should be put into the general water supply.*
Antidote tablets could be distributed by an expert government board which determines who is and isn't breeding material.

Perhaps I wouldn't be here, but that would have spared me as many travails as rewards.
		
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Me mother who couldn’t remember my birthday until I actually found out by accident when it was when I was 15/16 yrs old. Told me a couple of years ago, that seeing as I was born 11 months after my older brother and it was to soon to have another baby. She tried to get rid of me by drinking quinine and taking “ mystic menstroids”. Could explain a lot. She explained it was the norm back in the day.
Re the current population of this country. By all accounts the North east lasses are popping there clogs earlier to make space for the rest of us. Seems A bit extreme to me, but Howay and thanks girls. 😳🤔☹️


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 26, 2020)

I had to Google "popping their clogs," but that's OK because I had to Google "Howay" as well.
I'm getting so much smarter thanks to Tash and the GM gang.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 26, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			I had to Google "popping their clogs," but that's OK because I had to Google "Howay" as well.
I'm getting so much smarter thanks to Tash and the GM gang.
		
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How about 'Kicking the bucket' or 'Croaking'


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Feb 26, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			How about 'Kicking the bucket' or 'Croaking'
		
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Now THAT'S the Queen's English as I know it!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 27, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Now THAT'S the Queen's English as I know it!
		
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btw - voice experts apparently have it that our Queen no longer speaks the Queen's English (as she might have done in the 50s).  Indeed if you were to ask the residents of Inverness (aka Inversnecky) who speaks the 'best' English in the country (and hence the world) - they would claim that _they _do


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## Slime (Feb 27, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			btw - voice experts apparently have it that our Queen no longer speaks the Queen's English (as she might have done in the 50s).  Indeed if you were to ask the residents of Inverness (aka Inversnecky) who speaks the 'best' English in the country (and hence the world) - they would claim that _they _do 

Click to expand...


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## SocketRocket (Feb 27, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			btw - voice experts apparently have it that our Queen no longer speaks the Queen's English (as she might have done in the 50s).  Indeed if you were to ask the residents of Inverness (aka Inversnecky) who speaks the 'best' English in the country (and hence the world) - they would claim that _they _do 

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Claim what they like but as they're not English how can they.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 27, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Claim what they like but as they're not English how can they.
		
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Said in jest I know...


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## Tashyboy (Feb 27, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			I had to Google "popping their clogs," but that's OK because I had to Google "Howay" as well.
I'm getting so much smarter thanks to Tash and the GM gang.
		
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Cheers YOB “me duck”. Don’t google that. It is a term of affection like thankyou very much “ me duck”/ friend.


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## spongebob59 (Feb 28, 2020)

See that RLB is lining Jezza to be her green minister, should she get the gig. 🤣


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## spongebob59 (Feb 28, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233297553069953027


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