# Liverpool FC's dilemma



## madandra (Jan 8, 2012)

I am wondering what stance Liverpool will take if their fan is found guilty racially abusing Oldham Athletic defender Tom Adeyemi. After their support for Suarez where can they go? Will they turn out for their next game wearing T-shirts with his picture on them to show support? NOT A CHANCE COZ HE ISN'T WORTH Â£25m.


What ever happened to the old saying 'NO MAN IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB' 

This blatant hypocrisy is the reason fans are leaving football in their droves.


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## One Planer (Jan 8, 2012)

While I agree totally:




			Will they turn out for their next game wearing T-shirts with his picture on them to show support? NOT A CHANCE COZ HE ISN'T WORTH Â£25m.
		
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No footballer is worth that much!! It's bloody stupid what teams pay for players these days, but I'll save that :rant: for another thread :smirk:


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## DappaDonDave (Jan 8, 2012)

Some players are worth big money, Rooney, beckham, ronaldo, messi...but not because of their football skills, but because the money they bring in through merchandise sales and advertising!

I think Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot and there's no way going back, we all know the majority of Liverpool fans are Neanderthals so will not be able to comprehend why racism has no place in the world!


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## G1BB0 (Jan 8, 2012)

thats a bit strong Dave, whilst there's an element in all clubs (not just lfc) who are still living in 1950's mindsets, the majority of fans around the country are anti racism.

A lot of these so called racists are hypocrits anyway as they will happily cheer one of their own teams players if they score or doing something good on the pitch


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## One Planer (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Some players are worth big money, Rooney, beckham, ronaldo, messi...but not because of their football skills, but because the money they bring in through merchandise sales and advertising!

I think Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot and there's no way going back, we all know the majority of Liverpool fans are Neanderthals so will not be able to comprehend why racism has no place in the world!
		
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Carlsberg don't do sweeping generalizations..............


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Some players are worth big money, Rooney, beckham, ronaldo, messi...but not because of their football skills, but because the money they bring in through merchandise sales and advertising!

I think Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot and there's no way going back, we all know the majority of Liverpool fans are Neanderthals so will not be able to comprehend why racism has no place in the world!
		
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What a knob .... Lol


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## DappaDonDave (Jan 8, 2012)

Scouser said:



			What a knob .... Lol
		
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Eloquently put...not supporting my statement in the slightest are you 


Way to prove me wrong...you win


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## bigfoot1985 (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Some players are worth big money, Rooney, beckham, ronaldo, messi...but not because of their football skills, but because the money they bring in through merchandise sales and advertising!

I think Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot and there's no way going back, we all know the majority of Liverpool fans are Neanderthals so will not be able to comprehend why racism has no place in the world!
		
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Coming from an arsenal supporter!! hahaha


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## madandra (Jan 8, 2012)

I wasn't wanting this to evolve into a slagging match but I cannot see how Liverpool can ban this guy from Anfield or take any action against him when they have condoned Suarez who used the same word on numerous occassions. I would love to see a big club sack a big player when they do something serious. What would Liverpool do if a Ref who used the word against one of their players. Do you think John Terry will be shown the door if the allegations against him are proven? Not a hope in hell.


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Eloquently put...not supporting my statement in the slightest are you 


Way to prove me wrong...you win
		
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Sorry mate I think your comment proves you don't understand racism .... I called you a knob


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## DappaDonDave (Jan 8, 2012)

Scouser said:



			Sorry mate I think your comment proves you don't understand racism .... I called you a knob
		
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My Appolgses, I was using you as an example to support my neanderthal comment.

Liverpool are stick between a rock and a hard place though, be very difficult to get out of this situation positively. Sell Suarez to show they don't stand for racism.


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			My Appolgses, I was using you as an example to support my neanderthal comment.

Liverpool are stick between a rock and a hard place though, be very difficult to get out of this situation positively. Sell Suarez to show they don't stand for racism.
		
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For the record I would put him on a free transfer.... And if there was somenone guilty in the crowd life ban ..... For the record I did used to be a red but can't be bothered with it anymore


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## bigfoot1985 (Jan 8, 2012)

Scouser said:



			For the record I would put him on a free transfer.... And if there was somenone guilty in the crowd life ban ..... For the record I did used to be a red but can't be bothered with it anymore
		
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why??


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

bigfoot1985 said:



			why??
		
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If I was found guilty of a racist comment in work I would either be on a final written warning and sent on a hell of a lot of courses or dissmised. I wouldn't be told to turn up but not work for 8 days ..... 

The club handled the situation very badly in my Mind....... Just my oppinion


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## bigfoot1985 (Jan 8, 2012)

so your saying you use to be a red but you cant be bothered, why??


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

bigfoot1985 said:



			so your saying you use to be a red but you cant be bothered, why??
		
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Oh right sorry lost interest a long time ago.... I think it all got a but silly with the money and stuff ....

I know a few people who walked away ...... 

I am talking football in genneral by the way


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## bigfoot1985 (Jan 8, 2012)

its always going to be the same in football with money ect...

i use to travel from leicester to watch a few games but since they have changed the all red membership system i haven't bothered


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## darrenmcg (Jan 8, 2012)

what some people tend to forget is that in the heat of battle things are said to get the upper hand (suarez) all players do this as for the fans who shout abuse like that they should be banned from all football grounds


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## madandra (Jan 8, 2012)

darrenmcg said:



			as for the fans who shout abuse like that they should be banned from all football grounds
		
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So why is the law not the same for all. As someone else previously said if I or we racially abused someone at work we would be sacked toot sweet. It is wrong for all ..... period.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 8, 2012)

madandra said:



			So why is the law not the same for all.
		
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Good question... A few years back [on an 'official' form] I stated, for my nationality, English... I was informed that it was NOT an acceptable answer... To me, thats racism... Yet I could do nothing about it...

No... I am not in the ENP nor do I subscribe to any of their views...

I just want the same courtesies afforded to others with regard my heritage/nationality...


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## Dodger (Jan 8, 2012)

Things just get worse this week for Liverpool.

Having scored his first goal for the club on Firday, Downing is currently in police custody after allegedly smacking his ex-girlfirend in a club last night. She is also in custody for an alleged assault. 

Great club my arse.


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## bigfoot1985 (Jan 8, 2012)

whats that got to do with the club??


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## MadAdey (Jan 8, 2012)

We are talking about 3 totally different incidents here.

Downing has smacked his girl in a club. Nothing at all to do with the club. 

An English football fan in the crowd allegedly shouting a racist comment at an Oldham player. With being English if he has said that, then he deserves the book to be thrown at him as he knows what he said. Be interesting to see if they can identify the person if what is alleged has been said.

A footballer saying something to another player in the heat of the battle, not realising that unlike in his native country that comment is a racist remark here. Fortunatley the PFA are now going to make players from overseas to go through the as young players in this country do. They will have to attend cultural awareness classes. So that will either stop what has happened with Suarez happening again, or they will not have the excuse that they did not realise what they said was racist.


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## bluewolf (Jan 8, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			A footballer saying something to another player in the heat of the battle, not realising that unlike in his native country that comment is a racist remark here. Fortunatley the PFA are now going to make players from overseas to go through the as young players in this country do. They will have to attend cultural awareness classes. So that will either stop what has happened with Suarez happening again, or they will not have the excuse that they did not realise what they said was racist.
		
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Why should the onus be on the FA. If he wants to earn a living in this country, the  its up to him to learn the culture/rules.. Try that logic on a french gendarme next time you're driving through France.. "Sorry officer, I wasn't aware that I was breaking the law." I bet we both know what the response will be.....


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## pbrown7582 (Jan 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



Things just get worse this week for Liverpool.

Having scored his first goal for the club on Firday, Downing is currently in police custody after allegedly smacking his ex-girlfirend in a club last night. She is also in custody for an 

Great club my arse.

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Now man united to visit in the fac that'll help calm things....  Not


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2012)

madandra said:



			I am wondering what stance Liverpool will take if their fan is found guilty racially abusing Oldham Athletic defender Tom Adeyemi. After their support for Suarez where can they go? Will they turn out for their next game wearing T-shirts with his picture on them to show support? NOT A CHANCE COZ HE ISN'T WORTH Â£25m.


What ever happened to the old saying 'NO MAN IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB' 

This blatant hypocrisy is the reason fans are leaving football in their droves.
		
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I take it you've not read the 115 page document on the evra race case then.

If and i mean IF this lad is proven to be found guilty by a court of law then he deserves whatever punishment the law gives.

One thing is for sure at least he will get a fair hearing unlike Luis Suarez.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Sell Suarez to show they don't stand for racism.
		
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Haha you've not read the 115 page document from the commission neither.

Liverpool have cooperated with the police on the alledged racist comment made by a fan  against the oldham player and he has now been charged pending a court case.

He is still innocent until PROVEN guilty.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2012)

Scouser said:



			If I was found guilty of a racist comment in work I would either be on a final written warning and sent on a hell of a lot of courses or dissmised. I wouldn't be told to turn up but not work for 8 days ..... 

The club handled the situation very badly in my Mind....... Just my oppinion
		
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Haha i cant believe you're comparing your job to a game of football.

The conversation was in spanish between 2 people who spoke spanish only for evra to think the word "Negro"( black, Neg Row) meant "Nigger" because the word  Negro pronounced Knee Grow in france is a racist comment.

Have you read the report??

The Commission do not believe that Luis Suarez is Racist, it's there in black and white.

So why would you free transfer him?


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2012)

bluewolf said:



			Why should the onus be on the FA. If he wants to earn a living in this country, the  its up to him to learn the culture/rules.. Try that logic on a french gendarme next time you're driving through France.. "Sorry officer, I wasn't aware that I was breaking the law." I bet we both know what the response will be.....
		
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He never said the the onus should be on the FA.

The PFA however are a completely seperate organisation who represent the players, all of whom pay yearly subs.


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## MadAdey (Jan 8, 2012)

bluewolf said:



			Why should the onus be on the FA. If he wants to earn a living in this country, the  its up to him to learn the culture/rules.. Try that logic on a french gendarme next time you're driving through France.. "Sorry officer, I wasn't aware that I was breaking the law." I bet we both know what the response will be.....
		
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Do you not have any training at work regarding equality in the workplace? I have to do half a day every year doing Equality and Diversity training.


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## A1ex (Jan 8, 2012)

This is what happens when a club and manager handle a serious issue like rank amateurs. It gives the moronic element among Liverpool's support the confidence to voice these repulsive remarks. 

This sort of thing hasn't happened for years with Liverpool, yet this incident has happened right after the whole Suarez case. Coincidence? I think not.

Liverpool's view has been 'Suarez is innocent and we'll support him 100%, regardless of anything else. End of.' which is a disgraceful view to have. They've tried to blame Evra, the FA and everyone but themselves and Suarez. No humility, no class, nothing except embarrassing comments, statements, t-shirts and now this whole debacle. If the FA had any backbone they'd charge Dalglish and Liverpool with bringing the game into disrepute.

This new incident puts Liverpool in a difficult position, as the opening post suggests. It's a lose lose situation that they only have themselves to blame for.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 8, 2012)

A1ex said:



			This is what happens when a club and manager handle a serious issue like rank amateurs. It gives the moronic element among Liverpool's support the confidence to voice these repulsive remarks. 

This sort of thing hasn't happened for years with Liverpool, yet this incident has happened right after the whole Suarez case. Coincidence? I think not.

Liverpool's view has been 'Suarez is innocent and we'll support him 100%, regardless of anything else. End of.' which is a disgraceful view to have. They've tried to blame Evra, the FA and everyone but themselves and Suarez. No humility, no class, nothing except embarrassing comments, statements, t-shirts and now this whole debacle. If the FA had any backbone they'd charge Dalglish and Liverpool with bringing the game into disrepute.

This new incident puts Liverpool in a difficult position, as the opening post suggests. It's a lose lose situation that they only have themselves to blame for.
		
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Read the 115 page document, Suarez was found guilty on "probability" nothing else.

Liverpool have messed up by not appealing after saying they'd  back him.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 8, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			Do you not have any training at work regarding equality in the workplace? I have to do half a day every year doing Equality and Diversity training.
		
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I truely believe that, in the scheme of things, we live in a tolerant society here in Britain... So, for me, it beggars belief that some consider it necessary to have courses to train us to be 'equal' in the workplace...


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## A1ex (Jan 8, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Read the 115 page document, Suarez was found guilty on "probability" nothing else.

Liverpool have messed up by not appealing after saying they'd  back him.
		
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I've read it all and it was worse than I expected. 

In legal terms probability is the norm and accepted for civil cases. Only in criminal cases is a higher level of proof required. Nothing else was required.


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## SammmeBee (Jan 8, 2012)

madandra said:



			This blatant hypocrisy is the reason fans are leaving football in their droves.
		
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Really??  Attendance figures don't show that.....maybe in Scotland yes but that is probably more down to the actual 'football' rather than anything else....


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha i cant believe you're comparing your job to a game of football.

The conversation was in spanish between 2 people who spoke spanish only for evra to think the word "Negro"( black, Neg Row) meant "Nigger" because the word  Negro pronounced Knee Grow in france is a racist comment.

Have you read the report??

The Commission do not believe that Luis Suarez is Racist, it's there in black and white.

So why would you free transfer him?
		
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HAHAHAHAHA 

I thought my stalker was leaving me alone! :ears:

Right I am not comparing a game of football to my job..... I am comparing one paid employee to another....

Have I read the whole report no ...you dont need to.


Mr Suarez used insulting words towards Mr Evra during the match contrary to FA Rule E3(1);
the insulting words used by Mr Suarez included a reference to Mr Evra's colour within the meaning of Rule E3(2);
Mr Suarez shall be warned as to his future conduct, be suspended for eight matches covering all first team competitive matches and fined the sum of Â£40,000;
the [penalty] is suspended pending the outcome of any appeal lodged by Mr Suarez against this decision.

Rule E3(1): "A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour."
"In the event of any breach of Rule E3(1) including a reference to any one or more of a person's ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability (an "aggravating factor"), a Regulatory Commission shall consider the imposition of an increased sanction."

Those appear to be the relevant points.  I am not saying he was found guilty of being a racisist....BUT he did use offensive words (or words deemed to be offensive)... Guilty as charged your honour

So why would I send him packing because he has become bigger than the club and this whole situation is a total mess. This will haunt Liverpool for years.  Do the club really need that and the hassle.  How many black fans will be offended by this stance?!?!?!

hope that explains it..........


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## MadAdey (Jan 8, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			I truely believe that, in the scheme of things, we live in a tolerant society here in Britain... So, for me, it beggars belief that some consider it necessary to have courses to train us to be 'equal' in the workplace...
		
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Yes but by my Employer giving you this type of training, I do not then have the excuse of "I did not realise I was being racist" This is why the PFA has always had these types of courses for young Pro's to teach them about equality and diversity. Now they are going to extend these courses to players arriving int his country after what has happened with Suarez.

When you work in a job that requires you to come into contact with many different races, and work in other countries it can be easy to do or say something that in your own culture would not cause offend. From what I know about this subject compared to someone who has never done it, you would be shocked by what you can get done for in the workplace. What you may think is acceptable, just may not be.


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## bladeplayer (Jan 8, 2012)

Does anybody know what this fan has "allegedly " said ...??

I think Liverpools defence was a word was said but was not said in a racist way ? this is possible ya know .. 

What we have to understand is that with so many diverse nationalities playing  now , different meaning of different words will sometimes cause problems .. il give you an example here some time ago i was emailing a friend & apologised i hadnt got back to him earlier as i had poped out for soup & sambo .. the message kept geting blocked at his end.. seemingly sambo was a word referring to black slaves years ago .. does this make me a racist ?  a racist remark should be judged in the context it is said . not just a word used .. thats just my opinion tho


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## Dodger (Jan 8, 2012)

Did I miss Downing being transferred?


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Did I miss Downing being transferred?
		
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On a free


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## madandra (Jan 8, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha i cant believe you're comparing your job to a game of football.

Have you read the report??

QUOTE]

Employment law is the same for everyone. 

I haven't read the report. 

In my opinion Suarez is lucky he didn't get charged with assualting Evra as well.
		
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## MegaSteve (Jan 8, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			Yes but by my Employer giving you this type of training, I do not then have the excuse of "I did not realise I was being racist" This is why the PFA has always had these types of courses for young Pro's to teach them about equality and diversity. Now they are going to extend these courses to players arriving int his country after what has happened with Suarez.

When you work in a job that requires you to come into contact with many different races, and work in other countries it can be easy to do or say something that in your own culture would not cause offend. From what I know about this subject compared to someone who has never done it, you would be shocked by what you can get done for in the workplace. What you may think is acceptable, just may not be.
		
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Hello Adey... Thankyou for taking the time to expand on your original post... I just hope similiar training is in place for those that visit our tolerant shores...

Perhaps a scheme can be set up to educate those on the terraces as to whats acceptable in the way of chants... Can't be good for a footballer, in his workplace, to be advised his missus "takes it up the bum"...

Whilst I believe football is a whole lot less racist now than it has been in the past...This being due to society's perception of racism as whole... Other 'prejudices' have now found a place on the terraces...


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## Billysboots (Jan 8, 2012)

Disregarding the incident with the "fan" (who will get a banning order if he's convicted), the way Liverpool FC have conducted themselves over the whole Suarez affair has been nothing short of embarrassing.

From publicly supporting the player via news conferences, press releases and the ridiculous t-shirt wearing, even after he has been suspended the club accept the suspension without an appeal but then go on to say the allegation is unsubstantiated. Add to that the player's "apology" which not only failed to be aimed directly at the player he abused, but also shamefully went on to agree that he will not use "the word" on a pitch in this country again. What about elsewhere?

The club should either put up, and come right out and say why the FA got it so badly wrong, as that is quite clearly what they are saying, or they should show some class and shut up.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Some players are worth big money, Rooney, beckham, ronaldo, messi...but not because of their football skills, but because the money they bring in through merchandise sales and advertising!

I think Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot and there's no way going back, we all know the majority of Liverpool fans are Neanderthals so will not be able to comprehend why racism has no place in the world!
		
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Thats just like saying all golfers from thornton-Clevelys are crap golfers.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Some players are worth big money, Rooney, beckham, ronaldo, messi...but not because of their football skills, but because the money they bring in through merchandise sales and advertising!

I think Liverpool have shot themselves in the foot and there's no way going back, we all know the majority of Liverpool fans are Neanderthals so will not be able to comprehend why racism has no place in the world!
		
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Dappa, is the irony not lost on you that you are offering up sweeping generalisations based on where a person is born/which footy team they choose to support.

And you ask people to comprehend rascism.

I think the bell tolls for thee.


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dappa, is the irony not lost on you that you are offering up sweeping generalisations based on where a person is born/which footy team they choose to support.

And you ask people to comprehend rascism.

I think the bell tolls for thee.
		
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Why take 2 posts when i summed it up in one 



Hope today went well!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 8, 2012)

I think there are two different cases here. The fan who abused the Oldham player is not the responsibility of the club and there is no onus on them to do anything. If he is found guilty he'll be treated as a race criminal in a court. Yes, Liverpool can comment and condone his behaviour and ban him but that is as far as they need go.

Suarez has been dealth with under the terms of his employment with the club and the FA as the governing body. Whether you think what he did "allegedly" was right or wrong or did or din't happen, the verdict has been made. Liverpool didn't agree and whilst I thought the shirt stunt was crass, at least the club are supporting him in what they see is an incorrect verdict. I think the John Terry verdict will be the real interesting one as he's being tried as a member of the public and not by the governing body the FA. What the FA do if he is found guilty is the question but I doubt they'll allow the manager to pick him for England as a matter of principle.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2012)

Scouser said:



			Why take 2 posts when i summed it up in one 



Hope today went well!
		
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Nah, got beat 5/4. We were 2 up on the front nine (twice), all square after 9. Lost the next 5 to pars and birdies. Ah well, I can imagine Dubai is crap anyway (not).

West lancs is boss though, although slightly prefer S & A. 

Yours captain caveman.


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yours captain caveman.
		
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Use a club next time


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 8, 2012)

Scouser said:



			Use a club next time 








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How do you get boss smilies up that aren't on the attached list. Can you do me a Fred Flintstone? I might get a new avatar, maybe Stu C could get a Barney Rubble.


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## Scouser (Jan 8, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			How do you get boss smilies up that aren't on the attached list. Can you do me a Fred Flintstone? I might get a new avatar, maybe Stu C could get a Barney Rubble.
		
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As i said you 2 should get a room


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2012)

Scouser said:



			As i said you 2 should get a room








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We'll try the neanderthal hotel in town. Or would we be more Homo erectus?


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## DappaDonDave (Jan 9, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Dappa, is the irony not lost on you that you are offering up sweeping generalisations based on where a person is born/which footy team they choose to support.

And you ask people to comprehend rascism.

I think the bell tolls for thee.
		
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Ah yes, the irony...I will be wearing a T-shirt to support myself on my next round of golf, followed by an apology but not directly to Scouser or yourself. Just in general.

Then I'll expect no other repercussions and the whole incident to be forgotten.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			Ah yes, the irony...I will be wearing a T-shirt to support myself on my next round of golf, followed by an apology but not directly to Scouser or yourself. Just in general.

Then I'll expect no other repercussions and the whole incident to be forgotten.
		
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Good lad, welcome to the neanderthals club.

Which clubs do you use?


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2012)

I think the worst thing to come out of any of this, is the fact that some "fans" are just looking to profit by using this as a thing to beat LFC with. I didn't know that football fans were so moralistic, so passionately against all forms of rascism, so anti-abuse and, by jove, such well meaning, hail fellow well met, thoroughly decent, salt of the earth, bastions of moral fortitude. It is so sad to see. If you want to campaign for all things right and proper go and do it elsewhere, because it just doesn't wash that you are beyond reproach, and the worse thing is the insincerity of it all. You aren't that bothered about racial issues, just a means to attack a rival. Sad,sad,sad.

I think it is proved by the amount of Man U fans on all internet forums who seem to represent 3/4 of the posters attacking LFC. BTW some Man U fans have also said some level headed comments also, sadly in the minority.  I would say the majority of LFC fans, actually think that Suarez should have got a ban, although maybe not so lengthy, due to extenuating circumstances. 99% of LFC fans are abhorred with the divvy on Friday night, though. 

Apparently Man U have had 2 supporters arrested for chanting racial abuse at OT this season, whereas LFC have only had one. Does that make them twice as rascist? - No it does not, but just shows how some things can be mis-represented and packaged up neatly to fit some people's aganda.

Are all the Chelsea/Arsenal fans going to be brought to book via CCTV for chanting Y***oes at Spurs? No.

I just hate all the faux concern, insincerity of it all, by footy fans/LFC rivals who want to beat us with it.


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## bluewolf (Jan 9, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think the worst thing to come out of any of this, is the fact that some "fans" are just looking to profit by using this as a thing to beat LFC with. I didn't know that football fans were so moralistic, so passionately against all forms of rascism, so anti-abuse and, by jove, such well meaning, hail fellow well met, thoroughly decent, salt of the earth, bastions of moral fortitude. It is so sad to see. If you want to campaign for all things right and proper go and do it elsewhere, because it just doesn't wash that you are beyond reproach, and the worse thing is the insincerity of it all. You aren't that bothered about racial issues, just a means to attack a rival. Sad,sad,sad.

I think it is proved by the amount of Man U fans on all internet forums who seem to represent 3/4 of the posters attacking LFC. BTW some Man U fans have also said some level headed comments also, sadly in the minority.  I would say the majority of LFC fans, actually think that Suarez should have got a ban, although maybe not so lengthy, due to extenuating circumstances. 99% of LFC fans are abhorred with the divvy on Friday night, though. 

Apparently Man U have had 2 supporters arrested for chanting racial abuse at OT this season, whereas LFC have only had one. Does that make them twice as rascist? - No it does not, but just shows how some things can be mis-represented and packaged up neatly to fit some people's aganda.

Are all the Chelsea/Arsenal fans going to be brought to book via CCTV for chanting Y***oes at Spurs? No.

I just hate all the faux concern, insincerity of it all, by footy fans/LFC rivals who want to beat us with it.
		
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I fully agree with the above, however, most of it could have been avoided if the situation had been handled just a little bit better by ALL concerned. The T shirts were pathetic though. I was there when they came out of the tunnel and the reaction of the crowd was pretty much one of bemused pity.. It is a shame that a great club like Liverpool is being singled out for coverage when it happens at most grounds every week....


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2012)

bluewolf said:



			I fully agree with the above, however, most of it could have been avoided if the situation had been handled just a little bit better by ALL concerned. The T shirts were pathetic though. I was there when they came out of the tunnel and the reaction of the crowd was pretty much one of bemused pity.. It is a shame that a great club like Liverpool is being singled out for coverage when it happens at most grounds every week....
		
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Thanks Bluewolf, for the level headed assessment. I was at Wigan that night and heard about the t-shirt thing whilst in the Asda cafe by the ground (nice pies BTW). My initial thought was it was a bad idea, but thought I would wait to see the t-shirts. I thought it may have an anti-rascism thing on them also (which they did not, sadly).

It was a bad idea, and although I think that LFC have generally handled a lot of things badly, I still think that you dont just cast people off and never forgive them. People have been talking about tolerant society, but there also does not seem to be much forgiveness about, although a direct apology to Evra would have probably helped. I think if John Terry's case had all been handled by now and say he would have had a 12 game ban, that more LFC fans would have gone ok, at least Suarez's case was proportional, but in the meantime this is all just trundling on and on.

I went to the match home and away in the 80's and football has moved on so much, but clearly it has much more to go. It has generally gone away from race towards more hurtful songs. 

There are so many other examples - Arsenal fans song about Adebayor's parents washing camels!!!! However, Arsenal has always had a large following of black fans, but did this cause anywhere near a fuss, no it did not.


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## A1ex (Jan 9, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think the worst thing to come out of any of this, is the fact that some "fans" are just looking to profit by using this as a thing to beat LFC with. I didn't know that football fans were so moralistic, so passionately against all forms of rascism, so anti-abuse and, by jove, such well meaning, hail fellow well met, thoroughly decent, salt of the earth, bastions of moral fortitude. It is so sad to see. If you want to campaign for all things right and proper go and do it elsewhere, because it just doesn't wash that you are beyond reproach, and the worse thing is the insincerity of it all. You aren't that bothered about racial issues, just a means to attack a rival. Sad,sad,sad.

I think it is proved by the amount of Man U fans on all internet forums who seem to represent 3/4 of the posters attacking LFC. BTW some Man U fans have also said some level headed comments also, sadly in the minority.  I would say the majority of LFC fans, actually think that Suarez should have got a ban, although maybe not so lengthy, due to extenuating circumstances. 99% of LFC fans are abhorred with the divvy on Friday night, though. 

Apparently Man U have had 2 supporters arrested for chanting racial abuse at OT this season, whereas LFC have only had one. Does that make them twice as rascist? - No it does not, but just shows how some things can be mis-represented and packaged up neatly to fit some people's aganda.

Are all the Chelsea/Arsenal fans going to be brought to book via CCTV for chanting Y***oes at Spurs? No.

I just hate all the faux concern, insincerity of it all, by footy fans/LFC rivals who want to beat us with it.
		
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Paranoid there Liverbirdie.

Fans have nothing against Liverpool, in fact most fans prefer you to Man Utd and Chelsea. Why would anyone want to beat LFC up? You're a fairly harmless club that doesn't win much these days. You're not that relevant. Fans across the board are more anti sides that continue to win things or buy success through sugar daddies. I'd rather see Liverpool win trophies than Man City for example.

This has nothing to do with bias. From what I've seen 80-90% of fans in general regardless of who they support believe your club has been in the wrong. Of the Liverpool fans, the vast majority believe Suarez shouldn't have even been banned, your view is a minority. 

Saying the worst thing to come out of all this is Liverpool FC being attacked is laughable. Two players have been racially abused by your star player and then a fan. Nevermind that, poor Liverpool have been attacked 

Arsenal/Spurs fans do get charged for anti-semitic comments if caught. The issue is more complex as Spurs fans have reclaimed a certain term and chant it in support of their side. You can find cases of fans being charged with abuse against Spurs though.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2012)

A1ex said:



			Paranoid there Liverbirdie.

Fans have nothing against Liverpool, in fact most fans prefer you to Man Utd and Chelsea. Why would anyone want to beat LFC up? You're a fairly harmless club that doesn't win much these days. You're not that relevant. Fans across the board are more anti sides that continue to win things or buy success through sugar daddies. I'd rather see Liverpool win trophies than Man City for example.

This has nothing to do with bias. From what I've seen 80-90% of fans in general regardless of who they support believe your club has been in the wrong. Of the Liverpool fans, the vast majority believe Suarez shouldn't have even been banned, your view is a minority. 

Saying the worst thing to come out of all this is Liverpool FC being attacked is laughable. Two players have been racially abused by your star player and then a fan. Nevermind that, poor Liverpool have been attacked 

Arsenal/Spurs fans do get charged for anti-semitic comments if caught. The issue is more complex as Spurs fans have reclaimed a certain term and chant it in support of their side. You can find cases of fans being charged with abuse against Spurs though.
		
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Not paranoid fella, just railing agaisnt this sudden faux moral conscience that has suddenly come from most daft footy fans,as well as defending LFC, where I feel it needs defending, but not defending the indefensible.

If people want to campaign against rascism, good, I agree with it. But do it for the right reasons, not just to kick a rival. If people are suddenly jumping on a bandwagon, through insincere reasons, then it will only put a campaign back in the long run, as when all this blows over, they will just move on to something else.

Even though we are not winning things, I think you will still find LFC is a big scalp. I think I speak to more LFC fans than you on a daily basis, and probably more that go the match.

Do you not think there is an insincere aspect to thousands of Man U fans going on internet forums, mainly to stick the boot in, and using race as a vehicle for this. Probably the same hypocrites who sing loads of anti-scouse songs, but have Rooney as a hero.


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## bladeplayer (Jan 9, 2012)

A1ex said:



			Paranoid there Liverbirdie.

You're a fairly harmless club that doesn't win much these days. You're not that relevant. Fans across the board are more anti sides that continue to win things or buy success through sugar daddies.
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What relevence does the above have to your point ?? the min i read this i just lost intrest in the rest of your reply , i did read it but this just put me off .. if you wana have a debate over something then debate whats going on & leave thesilly comments aside if you wana be taken seriously ..


Oh and let me sum up some footy fans for ya , players are abused when they play for their clubs by some oposing fans then supported by the same fans when they put in a good performance for their countries ..

Fans this worried about stuff , start in your own club (yes its in every club) & when ya fix it there then HELP out other clubs to do the same in a positive way ..


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## A1ex (Jan 9, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			What relevence does the above have to your point ?? the min i read this i just lost intrest in the rest of your reply , i did read it but this just put me off .. if you wana have a debate over something then debate whats going on & leave thesilly comments aside if you wana be taken seriously ..
		
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Erm....it has everything to do with it. As Liverbirdie had mentioned the main reason people were going on about it was it was Liverpool involved. 

It's not a club thing, anyone would be getting stick for handling it the way it has been. The former chairman of the Kick It Out campaign has been the one giving Liverpool more stick than any fans for example. 



bladeplayer said:



			Oh and let me sum up some footy fans for ya , players are abused when they play for their clubs by some oposing fans then supported by the same fans when they put in a good performance for their countries ..

Fans this worried about stuff , start in your own club (yes its in every club) & when ya fix it there then HELP out other clubs to do the same in a positive way ..
		
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I know football fans, I was a season ticket holder at my local team for over a decade. Of course theres scum in every fanbase, without a doubt. Most clubs weed out these turnips and do a good job. However when the actual club at boardroom level treats a serious issue in such a poor manner theres every reason to question it.


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## A1ex (Jan 9, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not paranoid fella, just railing agaisnt this sudden faux moral conscience that has suddenly come from most daft footy fans,as well as defending LFC, where I feel it needs defending, but not defending the indefensible.

If people want to campaign against rascism, good, I agree with it. But do it for the right reasons, not just to kick a rival. If people are suddenly jumping on a bandwagon, through insincere reasons, then it will only put a campaign back in the long run, as when all this blows over, they will just move on to something else.
		
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I agree using a serious issue to score cheap points is wrong. Theres many independant figures putting the boot in, as you call it. Not just rival fans.

Just think for a second....if Chelsea had come out with t-shirts saying Terry was innocent and had their manager trying to discredit Anton Ferdinand in the press, you'd find they'd be in the firing line. It's nothing to do with Liverpool, it could be any club and they'd be getting stick. 





Liverbirdie said:



			Even though we are not winning things, I think you will still find LFC is a big scalp. I think I speak to more LFC fans than you on a daily basis, and probably more that go the match.

Do you not think there is an insincere aspect to thousands of Man U fans going on internet forums, mainly to stick the boot in, and using race as a vehicle for this. Probably the same hypocrites who sing loads of anti-scouse songs, but have Rooney as a hero.
		
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Liverpool are big scalp on the pitch for sure. This is off it, which is totally different. No one would go out of their way to slate Liverpool for unknown reasons. Many people prefer you to the other top sides.

Not sure what Man Utd fans are saying, I only browse Championship and lower league forums. No doubt Man Utd fans would be giving Liverpool plenty of abuse though.

Gimme a good round of golf over paying Â£30 to sit next to some moron hurling abuse at someone he doesn't know because he happens to play or support a different team :cheers:


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## bluewolf (Jan 9, 2012)

A1ex said:



			Gimme a good round of golf over paying Â£30 to sit next to some moron hurling abuse at someone he doesn't know because he happens to play or support a different team :cheers:
		
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This rings true with me. I spent many years following the 'tics through the lower leagues. Days out at Millwall, Stoke, Carlisle, Oldham etc. I never got inot too much trouble because I wasn't there for the violence, just the sesh and the game.. BUT, Wigan into the premier league coincided with my little man being born. I carried on going to the games with the lads for a year (without the sesh obviously), but when Joel was old enough to follow the game a bit I wanted to take him and introduce him to my boyhood love. Unfortunately, the Everton fans who decided to apply for tickets in the family stand made absolutely sure that I regretted it instantly.

 I never noticed the bile that some fans are used to spouting, home and away.. Maybe I was just used to it. The Stewards and Police are loathe to do anything as they don't want to make it worse. If you think that Racism/Sexism etc etc have vastly diminished then you're imagining it. I made the mistake of going to an old firm game a few years ago while I was visiting friends in Balloch... Never again...

As stated, give me a round of golf, or even an RL game (the fans are much better) over a trip to most Football grounds these days...


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## bladeplayer (Jan 9, 2012)

A1ex said:



			It's not a club thing, anyone would be getting stick for handling it the way it has been. The former chairman of the Kick It Out campaign has been the one giving Liverpool more stick than any fans for example. 



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 If as you continualy & rightly by the way say its not a club thing,  im wondering what relevence your comments had thats all..


"You're a fairly harmless club that doesn't win much these days. You're not that relevant. Fans across the board are more anti sides that continue to win things or buy success through sugar daddies."


Its not a club thing but yet  you felt the need to slag off the club anyhow , what does whether you regard Liverpool been relevant or not go to do with the issue at hand ? , that was my point,  i was not agreeing with or disagreeing with you but to me entering this part made you seem as anti Liverpool club & therfore took the creedence of what you said next . ..


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## A1ex (Jan 9, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			If as you continualy & rightly by the way say its not a club thing,  im wondering what relevence your comments had thats all..


"You're a fairly harmless club that doesn't win much these days. You're not that relevant. Fans across the board are more anti sides that continue to win things or buy success through sugar daddies."


Its not a club thing but yet  you felt the need to slag off the club anyhow , what does whether you regard Liverpool been relevant or not go to do with the issue at hand ? , that was my point,  i was not agreeing with or disagreeing with you but to me entering this part made you seem as anti Liverpool club & therfore took the creedence of what you said next . ..
		
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I didn't slag Liverpool off. Slagging something off involves using insults, not saying a club is harmless. If I was being anti anyone if it was the sugar daddy clubs.

The comments were relevant as Liverbirdie was talking as if Liverpool were viewed as Millwall.


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## Scouser (Jan 9, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			, followed by an apology but not directly to Scouser or yourself. Just in general.

Then I'll expect no other repercussions and the whole incident to be forgotten.
		
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Please dont worry about an apology I am sure most Liverpool fans will understand that you have your own issues that are personal to you.... because I for one understand everybody is an individual.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2012)

A1ex, As I've said before, this has been handled badly by LFC, and the whole suarez incident is not something us LFC fans are proud of. We have defended our club against the extreme and comical views bandied about by some fans, as I have seen here (see dippy Dave's comments about most LFC fans being neanderthals, as an example on general footy internet forums).

I just hate the bandwagon jumpers who normally couldn't care about race, using it insincerely to bash us. Bladeplayer and bluewolf has mentioned some very salient points, and I could not have put it better myself, and these are not LFC fans. I could talk to lads like that all day, no matter which team they support. 

Just over the relevance comment. All clubs are relevant, whether to their local community (St.Pauli), class or job (lokomotiv Moscow representing the railway workers in Moscow, which has 12 teams), city (Newcastle geordie nation), area (Barcelona, virtually representing the catalan nation), and possibly internationally such as Celtic who have a massive fanbase. If you only judge a club's relevance on trophies won, that is a sad indictment of today's football fan.

BTW fair play at least you've came back on and debated your points, unlike some who come on , post some crap, and when they are met with counter arguments, of a sensible kind, then do one.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 9, 2012)

A1ex said:



			I didn't slag Liverpool off. Slagging something off involves using insults, not saying a club is harmless. If I was being anti anyone if it was the sugar daddy clubs.

The comments were relevant as Liverbirdie was talking as if Liverpool were viewed as Millwall.
		
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A1ex do you want some ketchup for that mighty chip on your shoulder. I'm a Fulham fan first and foremost and a football fan in general second. Not sure what you mean by Liverpool not being relevant. I'm sure if City or United lose to Liverpool when they meet them again and then lose by a point or two they'll be seen as extremely relevant. 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the whole Suarez incident and the way the FA and Liverpool (on and off the pitch) handled it, it doesn't preclude from the fact that racism is still there throughout the game and that you can go to any league ground in England ad Scotland and will experience comments to opposition fans and players that would be arrestable offences if they weren't within the confines of a football stadium where the police seem to have discretionary hearing and seem oblivious to the taunts.

Suffice to say what happened between Suarez and Evra probably happens at all levels. It was certainly prevanlent in the 80's and 90's on the pitch and is probably on every pitch on a Sunday morning. Sadly racism is a cancer within society and it is the way these high profile cases get handled that makes i harder and harder to eradicate. The Terry affair will be the next interesting one and I wonder what FA punishment will be meted out over and above any custodial sentence. At the end of the day is what Terry did any different to the Suarez case


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## Shaunmg (Jan 10, 2012)

As a lifelong Neanderthal Liverpool fan myself, and a man who has brought his children to up shun racism and intolerance. I also abhor injustice.

On discussing this case with my barrister daughter, who by the way hates football with a passion. She is without doubt that had Suarez been tried in a criminal court he would not have been found guilty. So no wonder, that unlike Terry he was not charged.

In the British justice system a person can only found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. One manâ€™s word against another, with no other evidence, would not be anywhere near enough to secure a conviction.

Suarez was found guilty using a system not accepted in any civilized democratic country. That is; on a balance of probability. He was judged to be probably guilty, on the evidence of 150 pages of hearsay. 

That is why Liverpool and the fans are so angry. If there were evidence, either witness or video, I would be amongst the first calling for Suarez to be kicked out.

Liverpool knew it would be futile appealing against such a flawed form of justice. They timed the announcement so Suarez would in fact miss 4 cup ties and just 4 premiership games, then return for the crucial Man Utd and Spurs games

Liverpool cannot be accused of hypocrisy between the Suarez and the Tom Adeyemi issues. Unlike Suarez, in the case of the young fan, there is clear video and witness evidence, other than just Adeyemiâ€™s word


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## Hobbit (Jan 10, 2012)

Shaunmg said:



As a lifelong Neanderthal Liverpool fan myself, and a man who has brought his children to up shun racism and intolerance. I also abhor injustice.

On discussing this case with my barrister daughter, who by the way hates football with a passion. She is without doubt that had Suarez been tried in a criminal court he would not have been found guilty. So no wonder, that unlike Terry he was not charged.

In the British justice system a person can only found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. One manâ€™s word against another, with no other evidence, would not be anywhere near enough to secure a conviction.

Suarez was found guilty using a system not accepted in any civilized democratic country. That is; on a balance of probability. He was judged to be probably guilty, on the evidence of 150 pages of hearsay. 

That is why Liverpool and the fans are so angry. If there were evidence, either witness or video, I would be amongst the first calling for Suarez to be kicked out.

Liverpool knew it would be futile appealing against such a flawed form of justice. They timed the announcement so Suarez would in fact miss 4 cup ties and just 4 premiership games, then return for the crucial Man Utd and Spurs games

Liverpool cannot be accused of hypocrisy between the Suarez and the Tom Adeyemi issues. Unlike Suarez, in the case of the young fan, there is clear video and witness evidence, other than just Adeyemiâ€™s word

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But Suarez admitted saying it, ergo he's guilty.

He further qualified that by saying that in Uraguayan Spanish it means mate or pal - Google it, then Google the Mexican Spanish version. Liverpool supported this aspect of his defence. However, in the UK it is deemed racist, therefore he's still guilty.

He has pleaded ignorance of its meaning in the UK, and Europe, but whether thats the truth or not doesn't really matter. As your barrister daughter will tell you, ignorance is not a defence in UK law.


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## Shaunmg (Jan 10, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			But Suarez admitted saying it, ergo he's guilty.

He further qualified that by saying that in Uraguayan Spanish it means mate or pal - Google it, then Google the Mexican Spanish version. Liverpool supported this aspect of his defence. However, in the UK it is deemed racist, therefore he's still guilty.

He has pleaded ignorance of its meaning in the UK, and Europe, but whether thats the truth or not doesn't really matter. As your barrister daughter will tell you, ignorance is not a defence in UK law.
		
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We have been over this ground before, he admitted nothing. He completely denied using a racist remark. Nowhere in 115 page is statement there any reference being made to him admitting guilt. You have been reading trashy press comments and not the facts.

The report said he used it 7 times in 3 minutes. How do they know that? Whereâ€™s the evidence? other than Evraâ€™s word

The report acknowledges the word used â€œnegritoâ€ can be used in a friendly and an offensive manner. They chose to interpret it as the latter. Suarez defence was it was used only once in a conciliatory manner following an earlier clash between them. 

The video evidence clearly shows Suarez holding out a hand touching Evraâ€™s arm, which seems to be a conciliatory gesture, and Evra knocking it away. Yet the commission interpreted it as making reference to the colour of his skin. For godâ€™s sake! They even seem to know what he was thinking. 

The report also acknowledged if Suarez had not intended racial offence he could not be guilty, so your comment on ignorance of the law is a non issue. They judged he probably did mean it as offensive

Would you really like to live in a society where judgement was made on balance of probabilities and not one of, beyond reasonable doubt


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## Hobbit (Jan 10, 2012)

Shaunmg said:



We have been over this ground before, he admitted nothing. He completely denied using a racist remark. Nowhere in 115 page is statement there any reference being made to him admitting guilt. You have been reading trashy press comments and not the facts.

The report said he used it 7 times in 3 minutes. How do they know that? Whereâ€™s the evidence? other than Evraâ€™s word

The report acknowledges the word used â€œnegritoâ€ can be used in a friendly and an offensive manner. They chose to interpret it as the latter. Suarez defence was it was used only once in a conciliatory manner following an earlier clash between them. 

The video evidence clearly shows Suarez holding out a hand touching Evraâ€™s arm, which seems to be a conciliatory gesture, and Evra knocking it away. Yet the commission interpreted it as making reference to the colour of his skin. For godâ€™s sake! They even seem to know what he was thinking. 

The report also acknowledged if Suarez had not intended racial offence he could not be guilty, so your comment on ignorance of the law is a non issue. They judged he probably did mean it as offensive

Would you really like to live in a society where judgement was made on balance of probabilities and not one of, beyond reasonable doubt 


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He admitted using the word but not in a racist manner. Note, "he admitted..." The report also concluded that it wasn't meant in a racisit way and that Suarez isn't a racisit. As for "the evidence clearly shows Suarez holding out a hand..." He admitted pinching his arm. Note, "he admitted..." This is a common tactic in Europe, i.e. making the guy being pinched lash out in front of the Ref. Personally I think the length of the ban harsh but at the end of the day "he admitted...", and his defence of ignorance doesn't wash. Not quite sure where you get the beyond reasonable doubt from when he actually admitted the use of the word. I think the length of ban harsh but he deserves a ban.

I suppose using your logic, if he was caught doing 40 in a 30 but said it was ok in Uraguay he should then be let off...


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## Shaunmg (Jan 11, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			He admitted using the word but not in a racist manner. Note, "he admitted..." The report also concluded that it wasn't meant in a racisit way and that Suarez isn't a racisit. As for "the evidence clearly shows Suarez holding out a hand..." He admitted pinching his arm. Note, "he admitted...".
		
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Sorry but you're wrong again. I take it you are refering to page 5 paragraph 6 of the report with reference to pinching. Read it again, there is no addmission from Suarez, it is a claim from Evra with no video evidence.

Take a look at this incident of the lying Evra in the same game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH50lwwBRms

This credible witness was the same man banned for four matches in an incident when he accused a Chelsea grounds man of racial abuse and also levelled the same charge against Steve Finnan, both dismissed. The man has history. Evra's problem in that game was Suarez was ripping the back out of him throughout the game.

Answer me this question, why was Suarez not charged like Terry? actually don't bother I think we all know the answer. No witness and no evidence


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## A1ex (Jan 11, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			A1ex, As I've said before, this has been handled badly by LFC, and the whole suarez incident is not something us LFC fans are proud of. We have defended our club against the extreme and comical views bandied about by some fans, as I have seen here (see dippy Dave's comments about most LFC fans being neanderthals, as an example on general footy internet forums).

I just hate the bandwagon jumpers who normally couldn't care about race, using it insincerely to bash us. Bladeplayer and bluewolf has mentioned some very salient points, and I could not have put it better myself, and these are not LFC fans. I could talk to lads like that all day, no matter which team they support. 

Just over the relevance comment. All clubs are relevant, whether to their local community (St.Pauli), class or job (lokomotiv Moscow representing the railway workers in Moscow, which has 12 teams), city (Newcastle geordie nation), area (Barcelona, virtually representing the catalan nation), and possibly internationally such as Celtic who have a massive fanbase. If you only judge a club's relevance on trophies won, that is a sad indictment of today's football fan.

BTW fair play at least you've came back on and debated your points, unlike some who come on , post some crap, and when they are met with counter arguments, of a sensible kind, then do one.
		
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To be fair, bladeplayer and bluewolf didn't even know some of the major points of the case so their opinion isn't really the best barometer on this issue. 

Your view on it is actually refreshing to see in many parts. It was just the bit about everyone only making a fuss as it was Liverpool I really disagreed with you on. You're Liverpool FC, not Millwall....

My relevant comment was taken out of conext also. Every club is relevent to a certain level. My point was in the context you were talking Liverpool weren't relevant to being disliked. Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City are far more disliked than Liverpool, due to their recent success, as football fans are often jealous creatures.

I think rivalry played its ugly part in this, not sure if you agree. If Suarez had insulted a player from Wigan or Swansea, Liverpool would've apologised for a misunderstanding and taken a smaller hit of 4 games. Because it was their big rivals they didn't want to see them get one over on them. The months and months of bad press have actually tarnished Suarez's image far more than the actual incident.


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## A1ex (Jan 11, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The Terry affair will be the next interesting one and I wonder what FA punishment will be meted out over and above any custodial sentence. At the end of the day is what Terry did any different to the Suarez case
		
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Terry's defence is slightly different and it's a legal case. It's more serious than the Suarez incident.

 If he gets convicted, he's screwed. He'll be a convicted racist, which is different to Suarez. He'll lose all of his endorsments, never play for England again and get at least an 8 game ban and a huge fine from the FA.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2012)

A1ex said:



			To be fair, bladeplayer and bluewolf didn't even know some of the major points of the case so their opinion isn't really the best barometer on this issue. 

Your view on it is actually refreshing to see in many parts. It was just the bit about everyone only making a fuss as it was Liverpool I really disagreed with you on. You're Liverpool FC, not Millwall....

My relevant comment was taken out of conext also. Every club is relevent to a certain level. My point was in the context you were talking Liverpool weren't relevant to being disliked. Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City are far more disliked than Liverpool, due to their recent success, as football fans are often jealous creatures.

I think rivalry played its ugly part in this, not sure if you agree. If Suarez had insulted a player from Wigan or Swansea, Liverpool would've apologised for a misunderstanding and taken a smaller hit of 4 games. Because it was their big rivals they didn't want to see them get one over on them. The months and months of bad press have actually tarnished Suarez's image far more than the actual incident.
		
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Agree on a lot of that, but I think you were mis-understanding me on one point. I was not saying everyone was making the fuss that it was Liverpool, more that rival fans (in the main) were trying to bash LFC with it, but mainly from an insincere perspective.

3/4 of fans on footy forums where Man U fans (I know there is a lot of them about). Yes rivalry has had a big effect on it, as the temperature always raises five fold whenever LFC and Man U fans debate. There is still jealousy/hatred out there for LFC but not as much as with the teams that you mention, due to their recent success. The money aspect for man city and Chelsea, the overall hatred for Man U that most English footy fans have (not just LFC, although we are the worst).


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## A1ex (Jan 11, 2012)

Shaunmg said:



As a lifelong Neanderthal Liverpool fan myself, and a man who has brought his children to up shun racism and intolerance. I also abhor injustice.

On discussing this case with my barrister daughter, who by the way hates football with a passion. She is without doubt that had Suarez been tried in a criminal court he would not have been found guilty. So no wonder, that unlike Terry he was not charged.

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A member of the public reported John Terry to the police. No one reported Suarez. That's the only reason why the Police didn't investigate Suarez. It's not that hard to grasp....



Shaunmg said:



In the British justice system a person can only found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. One manâ€™s word against another, with no other evidence, would not be anywhere near enough to secure a conviction.

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The legal justice system is different to employment law and civil cases. Using your logic you're basically saying that workplace disputes should be heard by high courts and judges or they're wrong 

Suarez is licensed to play in this country by the FA, they held a perfectly accepted and normal hearing and found him guilty. No different to someone who works for a bank going before that banks panel and being dismissed or fined.



Shaunmg said:



Suarez was found guilty using a system not accepted in any civilized democratic country. That is; on a balance of probability. He was judged to be probably guilty, on the evidence of 150 pages of hearsay. 

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The system is accepted in employment cases the world over. Saying it isn't 100 times won't make you right.



Shaunmg said:



That is why Liverpool and the fans are so angry. If there were evidence, either witness or video, I would be amongst the first calling for Suarez to be kicked out.

Liverpool knew it would be futile appealing against such a flawed form of justice. They timed the announcement so Suarez would in fact miss 4 cup ties and just 4 premiership games, then return for the crucial Man Utd and Spurs games


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Suarez admitted using the term. He made reference to Evra's skin colour which is against the FA rules, hence why he was found guilty. That really is the bottom line. 

You can make excuses all you like about a friendly meaning in Spanish. Just as someone could point out why would Suarez be acting in a friendly manner to a rival player who he's been engaged in a battle with during the entire game, and was on the verge of a physical confrontation with.

Or why Kuyt and Comolli changed their statements, or why Suarez contradicted his statement in the interview. Evra's story was the same from what he said to the ref at the time, to his teammates, his manager afterwards and to the panel at the hearing. Suarez's story changed and his evidence was deemed unreliable.

Theres been no injustice at all. If the evidence was so weak, Liverpool would've appealed. After going through such lengths to defend Suarez, to suddenly not appeal speaks volumes.


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## A1ex (Jan 11, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agree on a lot of that, but I think you were mis-understanding me on one point. I was not saying everyone was making the fuss that it was Liverpool, more that rival fans (in the main) were trying to bash LFC with it, but mainly from an insincere perspective.

3/4 of fans on footy forums where Man U fans (I know there is a lot of them about). Yes rivalry has had a big effect on it, as the temperature always raises five fold whenever LFC and Man U fans debate. There is still jealousy/hatred out there for LFC but not as much as with the teams that you mention, due to their recent success. The money aspect for man city and Chelsea, the overall hatred for Man U that most English footy fans have (not just LFC, although we are the worst).
		
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On the rival issue, you can understand your rivals anger. Their player has been painted as a liar by your manager and fans. He's had threats made to him by Suarez's national teammate aswell, as because he was insulted. In football terms thats more than a green light to go on the offensive.

Have to say I'm looking forward to Liverpool v Man Utd in the FA Cup :fore:


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2012)

A1ex said:



			On the rival issue, you can understand your rivals anger. Their player has been painted as a liar by your manager and fans. He's had threats made to him by Suarez's national teammate aswell, as because he was insulted. In football terms thats more than a green light to go on the offensive.

Have to say I'm looking forward to Liverpool v Man Utd in the FA Cup :fore:
		
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Not if your just using the rascism card to score points to belittle a rival, then return to normal life as a bigotted, racist, homphobe.

Yes, it will be quite a game/atmosphere - hope it's all about the match though.


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## Naybrains (Jan 11, 2012)

Cracking result tonight, what a difference with StevieG in the team.
Still be a toughie in the next round, even at Anfield.


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## IM01 (Jan 11, 2012)

Great result for Liverpool but if Kompany had to go then surely Johnson should have been off.

Neither was a red for me.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2012)

IM01 said:



			Great result for Liverpool but if Kompany had to go then surely Johnson should have been off.

Neither was a red for me.
		
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Just back from the match, haven't seen Johnno's tackle yet, but mainly talked about it on 909. Honestly can't remember it from the match though, also why was carragher booked for the Nasri incident?

Couldn't believe it wasn't a sell out, 5-6,000 seats in the home end empty!!

Still not counting my chickens though.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 11, 2012)

Just seen the tackle - Ooohh, couldn't of complained if he'd have been booked, maybe even more, in the current environment.


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## TED (Jan 12, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Not paranoid fella, just railing agaisnt this sudden faux moral conscience that has suddenly come from most daft footy fans,as well as defending LFC, where I feel it needs defending, but not defending the indefensible.

If people want to campaign against rascism, good, I agree with it. But do it for the right reasons, not just to kick a rival. If people are suddenly jumping on a bandwagon, through insincere reasons, then it will only put a campaign back in the long run, as when all this blows over, they will just move on to something else.

Even though we are not winning things, I think you will still find LFC is a big scalp. I think I speak to more LFC fans than you on a daily basis, and probably more that go the match.

Do you not think there is an insincere aspect to thousands of Man U fans going on internet forums, mainly to stick the boot in, and using race as a vehicle for this. Probably the same hypocrites who sing loads of anti-scouse songs, but have Rooney as a hero.
		
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Dear me! Talk about digging a hole?   What is it with scousers and their infernal  "it was'nt us" mentality?

The player admitted his guilt and he was banned, and rightly so.  The players and the manager made total nobs of themself's, fact, and they've got to live with that.   Yet they still insist on the blame culture.

Where is it substantiated that two United fans have been banned for racist abuse? 

May be they should see their own clueless and classless supporters for what they really are.

Take a trip to Youtube and see them inside Old Trafford last season with an inflatable aeroplane singing their famous Munich song, and the guy caught by the sky cameras repeatedly chanting "Munich" who to be fair was arrested and shamed after a newspaper printed his picture.

And this is the behaviour of fans that suffered its own terrible trajedy.

Was they ever gunna take their medicine?     Was they b!@#)!s

Suppose it was somebody elses fault they paid 35 million for a yard dog from Newcastle.


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## bladeplayer (Jan 12, 2012)

IM01 said:



			Great result for Liverpool but if Kompany had to go then surely Johnson should have been off.

Neither was a red for me.
		
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Im in the other camp here,  Both were red  for me mate , doesnt matter if you make contact or go near the player ..get the ball or not..  two feet off the ground you cant control yourself or the tackle  . should be seen as reckless & red .. not just the 2 mentioned,  it should be all cases , too dangerous has no place in the game , just my opinion ..


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## TED (Jan 12, 2012)

My jury is still out though with the Kompany tackle.  Though i'm a United fan, i'd have been disappointed if one of our players was sent off for that.  It was a two footed pincer tackle and looks far less reckless than that of Johnson's  which was potentially career ending.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2012)

TED said:



			Dear me! Talk about digging a hole?   What is it with scousers and their infernal  "it was'nt us" mentality?

The player admitted his guilt and he was banned, and rightly so.  The players and the manager made total nobs of themself's, fact, and they've got to live with that.   Yet they still insist on the blame culture.

Where is it substantiated that two United fans have been banned for racist abuse? 

May be they should see their own clueless and classless supporters for what they really are.

Take a trip to Youtube and see them inside Old Trafford last season with an inflatable aeroplane singing their famous Munich song, and the guy caught by the sky cameras repeatedly chanting "Munich" who to be fair was arrested and shamed after a newspaper printed his picture.

And this is the behaviour of fans that suffered its own terrible trajedy.

Was they ever gunna take their medicine?     Was they b!@#)!s

Suppose it was somebody elses fault they paid 35 million for a yard dog from Newcastle.
		
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You don't seem the type to engage in reasoned argument, going on your baseline views. Shut the door, whilst the adults speak.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

TED said:



			Dear me! Talk about digging a hole?   What is it with scousers and their infernal  "it was'nt us" mentality?

The player admitted his guilt and he was banned, and rightly so.  The players and the manager made total nobs of themself's, fact, and they've got to live with that.   Yet they still insist on the blame culture.

Where is it substantiated that two United fans have been banned for racist abuse? 

May be they should see their own clueless and classless supporters for what they really are.

Take a trip to Youtube and see them inside Old Trafford last season with an inflatable aeroplane singing their famous Munich song, and the guy caught by the sky cameras repeatedly chanting "Munich" who to be fair was arrested and shamed after a newspaper printed his picture.

And this is the behaviour of fans that suffered its own terrible trajedy.

Was they ever gunna take their medicine?     Was they b!@#)!s

Suppose it was somebody elses fault they paid 35 million for a yard dog from Newcastle.
		
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TED take a look at this,



Good read


http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public...rrests-banning-orders/fbo-2010-11?view=Binary




For every Munich chant there's just as many hillsborough/ heysel chants so yernited fans aren't exactly angels.

Think on eh


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			TED take a look at this,



Good read


http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public...rrests-banning-orders/fbo-2010-11?view=Binary




For every Munich chant there's just as many hillsborough/ heysel chants so yernited fans aren't exactly angels.

Think on eh
		
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Eh Stu, you must have been up all night doing that on an excel sheet. Youse scousers will do anything for an excuse, didn't know you had wi-fi in your cave.So paleolithic period!!!


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Eh Stu, you must have been up all night doing that on an excel sheet. Youse scousers will do anything for an excuse, didn't know you had wi-fi in your cave.So paleolithic period!!!
		
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Haha posh me la!

The facts are in black and white, yernited have racist fans too!


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## Naybrains (Jan 12, 2012)

SteveG signs new contract,  Your thoughts?


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## Scouser (Jan 12, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Eh Stu, you must have been up all night doing that on an excel sheet. Youse scousers will do anything for an excuse, didn't know you had wi-fi in your cave.So paleolithic period!!!
		
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You scouser's are thick as pig sh!t its an Adobe doc not excel!


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## chris661 (Jan 12, 2012)

Naybrains said:



			SteveG signs new contract,  Your thoughts?
		
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Should have left to join chealski all those years ago, will win nothing of any note again.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

Naybrains said:



			SteveG signs new contract,  Your thoughts?
		
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Great news.

He's a fantastic footballer and hopefully if he can stay injury free then we could get another 4  decent seasons out of him. When he's in the team it lifts everybody, hopefully we can buy more top quality players for him to play with instead of the likes of Charlie Adam who for me is very poor


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Should have left to join chealski all those years ago, will win nothing of any note again.
		
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Haha and chelsea will?


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## chris661 (Jan 12, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha and chelsea will?
		
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Never said they would.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Should have left to join chealski all those years ago, will win nothing of any note again.
		
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Where's your sense of romance???

Agreed, great news.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Never said they would.
		
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Chelsea don't deserve players o Gerard's quality, look what they've done to Fernando.


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## Dodger (Jan 12, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Chelsea don't deserve players o Gerard's quality, look what they've done to Fernando.
		
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They've done sweet fa to him,the guy was/is an overrated footballer and Liverpool got a good deal for him.Shame they pissed it away with a donkey.


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## chris661 (Jan 12, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Chelsea don't deserve players o Gerard's quality, look what they've done to Fernando.
		
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Gerard is finished as a top player now and his influence on games will really start to wane.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Gerard is finished as a top player now and his influence on games will really start to wane.
		
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Haha Gerard finished, he'd get in any team in the world and he's only half fit now.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

Dodger said:



			They've done sweet fa to him,the guy was/is an overrated footballer and Liverpool got a good deal for him.Shame they pissed it away with a donkey.
		
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He's superb and if played up front on his own and was supported with intelligent footballers then you would see he best of him no doubt about it.

He  needs to be played week in week out and not sat on the bench getting splinters.


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## USER1999 (Jan 12, 2012)

Gerrard is at his best thumping dj's, for refusing to play his tunes.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2012)

Dodger said:



			They've done sweet fa to him,the guy was/is an overrated footballer and Liverpool got a good deal for him.Shame they pissed it away with a donkey.
		
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So Torres was overrated, based on what. So all them goals he scored in 3 years at Anfield, and he was overrated. Compared to who, or what. Enlighten me.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			Gerrard is at his best thumping dj's, for refusing to play his tunes.
		
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Rightly so, if he would've played his songs he wouldn't of been knocked out. Simple really


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## A1ex (Jan 12, 2012)

Torres is finished. Those years playing with injuries destroyed his pace. Without that he offers little else. Watching him these days is cringeworthy. You remember how electric and clinical he was from 2007-2010 and then see him now and hard to believe he's the same player. I don't think a top player has ever just dropped off like he has.

Liverpool did one of the deals of the century getting Â£50m for him.

Nice win for Liverpool at Man City, can see the second leg being a cracker. Not much of a surprise Man City look quite average as soon as their key players (Kompany, Yaya and Silva) miss games. 

Was quite impressed with Liverpool first half, the sheer workrate the midfield - ran City off the pitch.


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## Stuart_C (Jan 12, 2012)

A1ex said:



			Torres is finished. Those years playing with injuries destroyed his pace. Without that he offers little else. Watching him these days is cringeworthy. You remember how electric and clinical he was from 2007-2010 and then see him now and hard to believe he's the same player. I don't think a top player has ever just dropped off like he has.

Liverpool did one of the deals of the century getting Â£50m for him.

Nice win for Liverpool at Man City, can see the second leg being a cracker. Not much of a surprise Man City look quite average as soon as their key players (Kompany, Yaya and Silva) miss games. 

Was quite impressed with Liverpool first half, the sheer workrate the midfield - ran City off the pitch.
		
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Torres is the type of player that needs a arm round shoulder and confidence.

I thought after his injury he'd get back to his best but he just hasn't played enough to get that confidence.

It's funny how all of a sudden  they are weak without 3players when their team that played cost Â£165m+.

Gerard in the middle of the park makes that team play, and hopefully we can get the job done net week.


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 12, 2012)

A1ex said:



			Torres is finished. Those years playing with injuries destroyed his pace. Without that he offers little else. Watching him these days is cringeworthy. You remember how electric and clinical he was from 2007-2010 and then see him now and hard to believe he's the same player. I don't think a top player has ever just dropped off like he has.

Liverpool did one of the deals of the century getting Â£50m for him.

Nice win for Liverpool at Man City, can see the second leg being a cracker. Not much of a surprise Man City look quite average as soon as their key players (Kompany, Yaya and Silva) miss games. 

Was quite impressed with Liverpool first half, the sheer workrate the midfield - ran City off the pitch.
		
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I was quite impressed with us first half, but second half!!! Kenny got it right defensively, but offered nothing going forward. But hey, that's the first time they haven't scored at home in 14 months.


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## TED (Jan 12, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			You don't seem the type to engage in reasoned argument, going on your baseline views. Shut the door, whilst the adults speak.
		
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Just a few facts to counteract "the spin".  You know, just so everyones up to speed regarding "guilty" racist footballers, and jizzing their last dollar on a  cart horse.


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## MadAdey (Jan 13, 2012)

TED said:



			Dear me! Talk about digging a hole?   What is it with scousers and their infernal  "it was'nt us" mentality?

The player admitted his guilt and he was banned, and rightly so.  The players and the manager made total nobs of themself's, fact, and they've got to live with that.   Yet they still insist on the blame culture.

Where is it substantiated that two United fans have been banned for racist abuse? <br>

May be they should see their own clueless and classless supporters for what they really are.

Take a trip to Youtube and see them inside Old Trafford last season with an inflatable aeroplane singing their famous Munich song, and the guy caught by the sky cameras repeatedly chanting "Munich" who to be fair was arrested and shamed after a newspaper printed his picture.

And this is the behaviour of fans that suffered its own terrible trajedy.

Was they ever gunna take their medicine?     Was they b!@#)!s

Suppose it was somebody elses fault they paid 35 million for a yard dog from Newcastle.
		
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I think you have just reiterated a point that was brought up earlier in the thread. Other teams fans especially Man Utd are just using this this now as a way to have a dig at Liverpool. I have not read the report but it is very interesting listening to people that have. The main point that has to be taken from it that I see is the admission of guilt. From what I can make out he has admitted using a term that in his own native language does not have a racist undertone to it. So is he guilty of being racist I think not. Is he guilty of making a comment that Evra and the FA interpret to be racist, yes he is. 

But this is employment law, not criminal law. If you have ever had any form of training on racism in the workplace then you would know that it is not what you said, it is how someone else has taken it. I could have be having a laugh with a mate who is of an ethnic minority and take the piss out if him. If he took this as a racist insult, then he could report me, even though I had no intention of being racist towards him. In the workplace it is always how the offended party interpreted what was said, not what was said.

I am a Liverpool first and foremost and gutted that Suarez has been banned and I would have loved us to argue it and try to get it overturned. I do not think the club can win regarding an appeal. If they appeal it then they get slagged off for backing a racist player and just keep this incident in the headlines. If they choose not to appeal they get slagged off for that also. The club just want this finished with now and to move on from it. A Liverpool player made a mistake and will learn from it, as will other players foreign footballers.

Just a quick note on the Terry incident. Suarez has admitted saying something that he did not see as a racist comment. What Terry said is totally different, he is English, grew up in England and make a racist comment in English. Terry is screwed as it is on camera him saying it. They have a lot of evidence against him unlike in the Suarez incident. Suarez has a defence against the comments he made, not sure how good that defence is seen though. But Terry can't deny what he said.


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## bladeplayer (Jan 13, 2012)

TED said:



			Just a few facts to counteract "the spin". You know, just so everyones up to speed regarding "guilty" racist footballers, and jizzing their last dollar on a cart horse.
		
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Ted the problem is more with the delivery than the content .. as said before when ya start a post with stuff like .... 

"Dear me! Talk about digging a hole? What is it with scousers and their infernal "it was'nt us" mentality?"

people are going to see it rightly or wrongly so as an anti liverpool post rather than a constructive discussion post , & in fairness if you start a post on the attack people will defend in return..


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 13, 2012)

TED said:



			Just a few facts to counteract "the spin".  You know, just so everyones up to speed regarding "guilty" racist footballers, and jizzing their last dollar on a  cart horse.
		
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Lets face it, no you weren't - it was just an anti-scouse rant. Just admit it, other better websites to do it on, lad.

You didn'y say anything cogent or relevant, or new. I bet you are one of those who send them silly texts into the daily star, slagging off rivals.


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## Naybrains (Jan 21, 2012)

Certainly being given a lesson by Bolton 3-1.
Defense ropey to say the least!!!
Bellamy, losing the plot. Him and Reo-Coker having handbags at 40yds.
Great entertainment.


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 21, 2012)

Naybrains said:



			Certainly being given a lesson by Bolton 3-1.
Defense ropey to say the least!!!
*Bellamy, losing the plot. *Him and Reo-Coker having handbags at 40yds.
Great entertainment.
		
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Did he ever have it. Total fruit loop why Kenny had him back god only knows. In fact most of his signings have been pants. Andy Carroll at Â£35 Mill do me a favour!! Downing=Rubbish, Henderson=Way Overpriced, Adam=Jury out on him,Enrique=Average, Suarez=Super Footballer but a known nutter see his rap sheet in Holland banned for Biting amongst others Stiil think they will win Utd in the cup next weekend though.


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## evahakool (Jan 21, 2012)

Stiil think they will win Utd in the cup next weekend though.[/QUOTE said:
			
		


			Be very surprised if they do,while it was a good result for Liverpool in the first leg the way they just played everyone behind the ball and never got much over the halfway line in the second half just seemed to me like a mid table PL team trying to hang on for a result.  Not the type of performance I would like to see from a team of Liverpools standing.

They will have to be more positive playing at home,which will be their undoing I fear, Liverpool dont get beat at home very often, but I think its 7 home draws this season that  tells its own story.
		
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## painterboy (Jan 21, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Did he ever have it. Total fruit loop why Kenny had him back god only knows. In fact most of his signings have been pants. Andy Carroll at Â£35 Mill do me a favour!! Downing=Rubbish, Henderson=Way Overpriced, Adam=Jury out on him,Enrique=Average, Suarez=Super Footballer but a known nutter see his rap sheet in Holland banned for Biting amongst others Stiil think they will win Utd in the cup next weekend though.
		
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So, a couple of more results like today will the honeymoon period for Kenny be over?


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 21, 2012)

evahakool said:



			Be very surprised if they do,while it was a good result for Liverpool in the first leg the way they just played everyone behind the ball and never got much over the halfway line in the second half just seemed to me like a mid table PL team trying to hang on for a result. Not the type of performance I would like to see from a team of Liverpools standing.

They will have to be more positive playing at home,which will be their undoing I fear, Liverpool dont get beat at home very often, but I think its 7 home draws this season that tells its own story.
		
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Agree with what you are saying but I just have a gut feeling they will win Utd. I just think LFC are an average side that are tough to beat and they will raise their game next Sat


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 21, 2012)

painterboy said:



			So, a couple of more results like today will the honeymoon period for Kenny be over?
		
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Yes not quite going his way at the moment is it. I just think how he has handled some incidents lately has been dubious at best. The Suarez T-Shirt incident should never have been allowed to happen just fanning the flames that pretty stupid really. Constantly moaning about the FA with the Rooney appeal amongst others was just making an enemy of them for himself so first chance they got it was payback time 8 match ban thank you very much poor management IMO.


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## evahakool (Jan 21, 2012)

Thats right I also think they are a average side and Iam not to fussed who wins,as a Spurs fan who has seen many a drubbing at the hands of Liverpool teams playing great attacking football, its sorry to see them playing not to lose a game instead of trying to go out and win.


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 21, 2012)

evahakool said:



			Thats right I also think they are a average side and Iam not to fussed who wins,as a Spurs fan who has seen many a drubbing at the hands of Liverpool teams playing great attacking football, its sorry to see them playing not to lose a game instead of trying to go out and win.
		
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I follow my local team Chesterfield and do not follow any Prem club so am not biased in any shape or form to any club. Spurs are a great side to watch and I think you will get 3rd place. Anyway next match on MOTD yep the mightly LFC


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## Liverbirdie (Jan 22, 2012)

Bugger, I thought this thread had hopefully ended.

The sad thing is I can't argue with much of the above 4-5 posts. We'll get better when Suarez is back though, still need a right winger and another forward though.The only thing we can hope for is the Anfield factor may kick in and help, the atmosphere has been crap this season, but against the two manc sides it should improve vastly, as long as the players help also.


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## MadAdey (Jan 22, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Did he ever have it. Total fruit loop why Kenny had him back god only knows. In fact most of his signings have been pants. Andy Carroll at Â£35 Mill do me a favour!! Downing=Rubbish, Henderson=Way Overpriced, Adam=Jury out on him,Enrique=Average, Suarez=Super Footballer but a known nutter see his rap sheet in Holland banned for Biting amongst others Stiil think they will win Utd in the cup next weekend though.
		
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Agree 100% with Carroll and Downing, maybe Â£25M on the pair of them but not Â£55M. 
Enrique was a good buy for the money. Other clubs have spent more on LB's and got a lot worse so a good signing for me at Â£6M. Is filling in a problem area that Dalgleish had but not a long term signing for me.
Henderson, Â£16M. Well for a young English midfielder with over 10 years of football left in him is not a lot of money. Man City parted with best part of Â£50M on Nasri and Silva. Fabregas Â£35M, Alonso Â£35M...but that is the money you pay for a midfielder that is proven at both league and international level. Henderson does show some good touches at times and wil only get better training and learning of Gerrard. So not bothered about the money spent on him.

I am a Liverpool fan and we are missing one player, Lucas. He has been fantastic this season for us until he got injured. He has accepted his best position is a holding midfielder and now is looking top class. In Brazil they rave about his ability. We are no doubt in need of a top class striker to play with Suarez though and a right winger. There is talk about Krasik at Juventus......


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## G1BB0 (Jan 22, 2012)

Unfortunately we are still very much a work in progress. A couple of decent signings and we will be in a much better position.

We can play great against the top teams and I am always confident of at least a draw against the top 5 but why do we always seem to drop a lot of points against the lower teams?


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 22, 2012)

Agree that Man City spent that amount on Silva and Nasri. But Henderson at Â£16m or Silva at Â£24m I think it was is a no brainer for me. Silva is World Class and is probably be worth Â£35Mil + now anyway Henderson is not in his class and never will be. Nasri is the dodgy one for me can be great when the mood takes but can be anonymous as well so jury is out on him. Thing is now Suarez will be a marked man when he comes back opposition players will target him for all sorts of gamesmanship and him being the hot head he is I cant see him staying out of trouble for long.


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## MadAdey (Jan 22, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Agree that Man City spent that amount on Silva and Nasri. But Henderson at Â£16m or Silva at Â£24m I think it was is a no brainer for me. Silva is World Class and is probably be worth Â£35Mil + now anyway Henderson is not in his class and never will be. Nasri is the dodgy one for me can be great when the mood takes but can be anonymous as well so jury is out on him. Thing is now Suarez will be a marked man when he comes back opposition players will target him for all sorts of gamesmanship and him being the hot head he is I cant see him staying out of trouble for long.
		
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I think that was the point I was making about Henderson. Â£16M does not buy you a top class proven creative midfielder in todays market. These players that are rated Â£30M and above are several years older than Henderson and a lot more experienced both league, Europe and International level. So I will back Henderson at the minute against any doubters as he is only 21 so has a lot of potentially good years ahead of him. 

But hey I will agree with any hits against Carroll and Downing. Anyone who watched last night got to see some horrific first touches from Carroll. Â£35M is what Aguero cost so I would expect to see someone of a higher standard than we have seen from Carroll so far. I do not even remember hearing Downing mentioned after he came off the bench. They looked at Downing as his stats last season showed he had a very high pass completion rate. But I now realise that it is not hard to complete a pass if you keep going backwards with it........:mmm:


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## In_The_Rough (Jan 22, 2012)

Looks like Kenny is not very happy either:smirk:
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/7447560/Dalglish-Heads-will-roll

Some intresting comments in the fan section at the bottom of the page as well.


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## Dodger (Jan 22, 2012)

You will go nowhere fast with King Kenneth in charge.As a modern day gaffer he is a total fud.His last few managerial stints are anything but awe inspiring.


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## Naybrains (Feb 6, 2012)

Nice, Saurez on the pitch 5 mins after his ban and boots Parker in the guts. Then puts his hand up like he didn't mean it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2012)

Awesome performance by Parker - there's the new England captain


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## Naybrains (Feb 6, 2012)

Great point for Spurs, agree Parker was superb.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 6, 2012)

Ah the return of Liverpool bashing eh, knock both manc teams out of the cups and  a solid 3-0away win and nothing gets mentioned.

Yet outplay spurs and the criticism begins.


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## Naybrains (Feb 6, 2012)

Certainly not a Liverpool basher Stu, good battle tonight.  Lovely cat too.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 6, 2012)

I thought Liverpool did enough to win. Apart from Bale's miss in the 2nd half they hardly looked like scoring and to be honest Carroll and especially Suarez with the header had gilt edged chances. Thought Adams was a bit anoninmous again but Gerrard looked fitter than I've seen him in a while. Something isn't clicking with the team and I don't know if its the personnel or Dalglish's tactics. Definitely something to build on. Henderson looked a good talent


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 7, 2012)

Naybrains said:



			Certainly not a Liverpool basher Stu, good battle tonight.  Lovely cat too.
		
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I believe he is up for the fur play award..........


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