# Slow play........ What's the solution?



## Neil_ingle (Jul 19, 2015)

Hi,

Like many clubs, mine suffers from some shocking examples of slow play and a lack of etiquette around the problem.

Now I know the correct thing to do is let's quicker groups through.

However I don't always think this helps the situation that much.

Yes the quick groups get through but the whole process of letting groups through slows the whole field down even further as inevitably the slow group is waiting to play while letting people through.

I think the solution should be something like putting "known" slower players at the back or start (with a gap) of a comp.

Slow play will eventually kill the game!

However after seeing how long the pros were taking to hit puts at the open on Thursday they aren't exactly setting a good example!!

Thoughts?
Neil (Cheshire)


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## Imurg (Jul 19, 2015)

2 things.....

1. Speeding up the Pro game.

2. Education - of everyone, not just those starting out. 
Many of the culprits have been playing for years so everyone needs educating.


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## bobmac (Jul 19, 2015)

Course marshalls


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2015)

Main thing for me is educating players what they should and shouldnt be doing and sadly the pro game is giving them far too many bad examples

Theres the obvious basics, leaving bag in right place, not marking card on green, being ready when its your turn, not too long a psr, one practise swing at most etc etc. Decent intervals in tee times (10 mins a min really) helps too

Players should try and think of others not just themselves. Far too many with the attitude of Ive paid my money Ill do as I like and sod everyone else sadly


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## c1973 (Jul 19, 2015)

Tasers.


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## Leereed (Jul 19, 2015)

I think setting the course up for the conditions as our course never is. If it's in the book as a medal it gets played as one even if the wind is blowing a gale.the other thing is par 5's people waiting for the green to clear when they still have 300 yards to go.


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## hovis (Jul 19, 2015)

The main problem with slow play is i have yet to find a player that admits to being slow.

I recently played a brigade final and two of the chaps i played with define the word slow.  On the 7th they started moaning about slow play on their home courses!!!!!!!!!


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## duncan mackie (Jul 19, 2015)

Neil_ingle said:



			I think the solution should be something like putting "known" slower players at the back or start (with a gap) of a comp.
		
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The solution should be closer to asking them to leave the club rather than accommodating them.

At least put them all out together so that the group reflects the individuals - so many times the other players play faster and faster to keep the group moving and the slow players true impact is negated.

By all means put them at the back of a competition field but, as bobmac knowingly points out, without marshals to insist that they then let through any following players if they still can't keep up (the end of the field is inherently slower overall) such that they don't impact anyone, you still run the risk of causing other inocent parties problems.


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## Sybez (Jul 19, 2015)

Maybe we're all in too much of a rush to play the game we're supposed to be enjoying. Why not just accept the pace of play on the day and just get on with it rather than moaning? If you don't have time to enjoy a game that may take 4 hours to play.... don't?


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 19, 2015)

People just need to get on with it. Playing golf a a decent pace isn't hard.


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## duncan mackie (Jul 19, 2015)

Sybez said:



			Maybe we're all in too much of a rush to play the game we're supposed to be enjoying. Why not just accept the pace of play on the day and just get on with it rather than moaning? If you don't have time to enjoy a game that may take 4 hours to play.... don't?
		
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A course time of 4 hours for 4 balls wouldn't get me complaining - our guidance is 4h30m!  It's when it runs out at 5h+ for 3 balls or BB matches that you know something somewhere is going wrong. 

As a reference non of the last 3 forum H4H rounds got even close to 4 hours !


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## bobmac (Jul 19, 2015)

duncan mackie said:



			our guidance is 4h30m!
		
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That doesn't help matters


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## Neil_ingle (Jul 19, 2015)

Sybez said:



			Maybe we're all in too much of a rush to play the game we're supposed to be enjoying. Why not just accept the pace of play on the day and just get on with it rather than moaning? If you don't have time to enjoy a game that may take 4 hours to play.... don't?
		
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Yes I am in a rush for family reasons etc.

Also it frustrates me to know I can play a friendly three ball in circa 3 hours so why should I except people taking 4 1/2 hours +?


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## hovis (Jul 19, 2015)

Sybez said:



			Maybe we're all in too much of a rush to play the game we're supposed to be enjoying. Why not just accept the pace of play on the day and just get on with it rather than moaning? If you don't have time to enjoy a game that may take 4 hours to play.... don't?
		
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Because people with chaff all to do with their time other than play golf need to understand that some people do have other things to do like go to work, pick the kids up,  drop the kids off, get the shopping,  walk the dog.  The list could go on


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## duncan mackie (Jul 19, 2015)

bobmac said:



			That doesn't help matters
		
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It's the reality of what 4 ball stableford games actually take with no-one else on the course and was set by the professional team. We play all comps in 3s and the good guys (average senior group of 18 handicappers); will get round in 3h 50 - put out a group of low handicappers and it's a lot longer! The noticeable difference is total time taken by a group on the green.

Combination of length overall, holes where the next tee is 150 yd away etc - it's not a function of rough height generally (although if that gets up at all lose play will add a lot to the time) if it was we would cut it!


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## bobmac (Jul 19, 2015)

duncan mackie said:



			It's the reality of what 4 ball stableford games actually take with no-one else on the course and was set by the professional team. We play all comps in 3s and the good guys (average senior group of 18 handicappers); will get round in 3h 50 - put out a group of low handicappers and it's a lot longer! The noticeable difference is total time taken by a group on the green.

Combination of length overall, holes where the next tee is 150 yd away etc - it's not a function of rough height generally (although if that gets up at all lose play will add a lot to the time) if it was we would cut it!
		
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So the low h/caps are the problem at your course and the seniors virtually run round in 3h 50m as a 3 ball?

If that's the same for all courses, I'm pleased I dont play much golf any more.


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## Old Skier (Jul 19, 2015)

Realistic tee times was our solution. We have a 320 starting par 4 and by letting that clear greatly reduces the backing up so we have 10 min for 4 balls


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## chrisd (Jul 19, 2015)

hovis said:



			Because people with chaff all to do with their time other than play golf need to understand that some people do have other things to do like go to work, pick the kids up,  drop the kids off, get the shopping,  walk the dog.  The list could go on
		
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Is that why the people with chaff all to do get carved up on the motorway going home from the course by ignoramuses who have too much to do with so little time to do it?


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## hovis (Jul 19, 2015)

Seniors at my place are the slowest by far.  However, they are good fellas and simply move aside and let us through.   They have a blast on the course so i can understand why they take their time.  It looks fun

I think slow play is simply down to not being ready when its your turn.   Even if my ball is ahead of my pp's i walk to it as long as im not in the line of fire.  By the time they've gone I've already worked out my yardage and adjustments. 
It seems some people think golf is football and god forbid you walk ahead of the last man and get caught offside. 
Also, what's wrong with playing out of turn.  Many times have i been ready and just gone because my pp is faffing about with something


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## hovis (Jul 19, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Is that why the people with chaff all to do get carved up on the motorway going home from the course by ignoramuses who have too much to do with so little time to do it?
		
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Start a new thread.   apples and pears


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 19, 2015)

hovis said:



			Because people with chaff all to do with their time other than play golf need to understand that some people do have other things to do like go to work, pick the kids up,  drop the kids off, get the shopping,  walk the dog.  The list could go on
		
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This might be correct on a Mon-Fri, but if your playing on a weekend in a comp I have no sympathy, our comps can take anywhere from 3hrs 15 to 4hrs 30+, depending on format etc.
Personally I believe the issue is like others, education, education, education. 
I also do wonder why some people seem to want to finish before they've started.


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## duncan mackie (Jul 19, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Realistic tee times was our solution. We have a 320 starting par 4 and by letting that clear greatly reduces the backing up so we have 10 min for 4 balls
		
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Ive tried to explain (provide all the various proofs for this in discussion re long rounds) but the key problem for a propriatory course is that the business model requires the practical application of the model - however flawed!
9 minutes would let the early course breath better and make life easier for all - we have 8 all the time which simply results in an inevitable log jam everytime you have 3 or more 4 balls in a row. Put out a society of 10+ 4 balls and you simply guarantee frustration for all but the coolest,  slowest groups.


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2015)

duncan mackie said:



			Ive tried to explain (provide all the various proofs for this in discussion re long rounds) but the key problem for a propriatory course is that the business model requires the practical application of the model - however flawed!
9 minutes would let the early course breath better and make life easier for all - we have 8 all the time which simply results in an inevitable log jam everytime you have 3 or more 4 balls in a row. Put out a society of 10+ 4 balls and you simply guarantee frustration for all but the coolest,  slowest groups.
		
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yep we pay the price for 8 min tee times too, management wont entertain 10 mins  basically as soon as the group is out of range the next group tees off then they get a nice wait on the bench at the tee of the par3 2nd far too often


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## chrisd (Jul 19, 2015)

We have about 5 members who regularly moan about slow play, I really don't know why they don't buy some running shoes and go jogging on a Sunday morning. I played with one in the 2nd round in the club championship and he often moans about my speed of play. I was up with him all day long and pointed this out in the clubhouse after, his comment " I know you're not slow but you are slow by the association of the players you go out with" I just laughed!


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## chillicon (Jul 19, 2015)

Amongst other things, get more people carrying their bags.


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2015)

chrisd said:



			We have about 5 members who regularly moan about slow play, I really don't know why they don't buy some running shoes and go jogging on a Sunday morning. I played with one in the 2nd round in the club championship and he often moans about my speed of play. I was up with him all day long and pointed this out in the clubhouse after, his comment " I know you're not slow but you are slow by the association of the players you go out with" I just laughed!
		
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just goes to prove theirs fast idiots as well as slow ones Chris


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 19, 2015)

chillicon said:



			Amongst other things, get more people carrying their bags.
		
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I've seen plenty of slow golfers who carry


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 19, 2015)

It happens and if the OP thinks there's a problem at his club then raise it. We tend not to have an issue and four hours for a fourball at weekends is as slow as it seems to get, even on a comp


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## JustOne (Jul 19, 2015)

Cure for slow play? no chance.

Agree with Bobmac that course marshalls would help.

You know those annoying gits who hog the middle lane on the motorway... well I bet 95% of them play golf!!!


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## palindromicbob (Jul 19, 2015)

Good marshalls can do wonders.  

Recently played in Florida and the course had a policy that slow players would be made skip a hole. 
What about something like that. Combined with  having to record the score as a ten for the skipped hole.


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## cleanstrike (Jul 20, 2015)

My thoughts? A golfing variation on Martin NiemÃ¶ller's famous poem.

First they came for the members who could only get round in 5 hours and kicked them out of the club because they were considered to be slow but I did not speak out â€“ 
  I could get round in 3 hours

  Then they came for the members that could only get around in 4Â½ hours and kicked them out of the club because they were considered to be slow but I did not speak out â€“ 
  I could get round in 3 hours

  Then they came for the members that could only get around in 4 hours and kicked them out of the club because they were considered to be slow but I did not speak out â€“ 
  I could get round in 3 hours

  Then they came for the members that could only get around in 3Â½ hours and kicked them out of the club because they were considered to be slow but I did not speak out â€“ 
  I could get round in 3 hours

  Then they came for the members that could only get around in 3 hours and kicked us out of the club because we were considered to be slow â€“ now I have to join another club


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## Smiffy (Jul 20, 2015)

hovis said:



			The main problem with slow play is i have yet to find a player that admits to being slow.
		
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This ^^^^^^^^^^
Pointing out to somebody that they might be a "tad" slow provokes a similar reaction to saying that their swing is like an axe muderers or that their wife is a right ugly bint.


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## chillicon (Jul 20, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I've seen plenty of slow golfers who carry
		
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No doubt, but everyone is quicker when they carry therefore a partial solution to the problem.


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## Imurg (Jul 20, 2015)

chillicon said:



			No doubt, but everyone is quicker when they carry therefore a partial solution to the problem.
		
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Not for those who physically can't carry.......would thin out the crowds though.
Carrying or trollying isn't the issue.
It's what people do with their bags that can slow things up.
Many a time I've seen bags, both carry and trolley, left 30 yards short of the green while the player walks up with putter in hand.
You need to be an idiot to do this not a necessarily a  carrier or trolleyer....


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## Slab (Jul 20, 2015)

The slow play problem is blown out of proportion (nonetheless it remains a problem) 

The solution to the problem, such as it is, is well documented 

The trouble is there is no consensus from clubs & players to fix it with only sporadic uncoordinated localised initiatives being implemented


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## chillicon (Jul 20, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Not for those who physically can't carry.......would thin out the crowds though.
Carrying or trollying isn't the issue.
It's what people do with their bags that can slow things up.
Many a time I've seen bags, both carry and trolley, left 30 yards short of the green while the player walks up with putter in hand.
You need to be an idiot to do this not a necessarily a  carrier or trolleyer....
		
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There are far too many fit and healthy people using electric trolleys and it slows things down, whether they leave their bags down the fairway or not. Making more people may of course be impossible to enforce, but it is definitely something that would speed things up.


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## chrisd (Jul 20, 2015)

chillicon said:



			There are far too many fit and healthy people using electric trolleys and it slows things down, whether they leave their bags down the fairway or not. Making more people may of course be impossible to enforce, but it is definitely something that would speed things up.
		
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I don't see how using trolleys slows down play, I always use one and keep up with those carrying without any problem. I can keep up the same walking pace with my trolley all the round, even up steep hills and those carrying will often walk along side those with trolleys to chat anyway!


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## bobmac (Jul 20, 2015)

Using a trolley is slower due to the fact you have to walk further


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## AmandaJR (Jul 20, 2015)

Marshalls work well - just the sight of one in a buggy and you can see the pace improve. Perhaps something like a scarecrow  but marshall/buggy-shaped to save on club costs


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 20, 2015)

Sybez said:



			Maybe we're all in too much of a rush to play the game we're supposed to be enjoying. Why not just accept the pace of play on the day and just get on with it rather than moaning? If you don't have time to enjoy a game that may take 4 hours to play.... don't?
		
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I made that decision, one of the reasons I stopped playing after 60 years.
I don't think I am alone.

You need to define 'rush'.
I am comfortable playing at a 3 hour round pace, that is was not a rush for me


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## the smiling assassin (Jul 20, 2015)

Not if you can give your trolley a 40 yard shove toward the next tee as you approach the green...
trolleys are definitely not the issue. Ditherers and (some) duffers are.


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## Hobbit (Jul 20, 2015)

fundy said:



			yep we pay the price for 8 min tee times too, management wont entertain 10 mins  basically as soon as the group is out of range the next group tees off then they get a nice wait on the bench at the tee of the par3 2nd far too often
		
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By increasing the times between groups you're accepting slow play, and masking it by the increased times. The problem needs resolving not masking.

Education + course marshall and penalties for slow play. A two shot penalty will speed play up - who wants to shoot a nett 65, which becomes a nett 67 because they've been on the clock?


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## bobmac (Jul 20, 2015)

We all have our favourite speeds.
Some are slow, some are medium and some are quick
Who is right and who is wrong
Should the fast players force the slower players to play quicker? 
Of course not
Therefore slower players shouldn't expect faster players to play slower.

It works (sometimes) on motorways when you have 3 lanes/speeds to choose from but sadly, we dont have 3 lane golf courses.
So, if you cant change the speed people play, you have a choice.............
You either make sure the slower players let faster players through (encouraged/monitored by course marshalls (stuffed or otherwise))
Or
The faster players go out first


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## Foxholer (Jul 20, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			By increasing the times between groups you're accepting slow play, and masking it by the increased times. The problem needs resolving not masking.

Education + course marshall and penalties for slow play. A two shot penalty will speed play up - who wants to shoot a nett 65, which becomes a nett 67 because they've been on the clock?
		
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Er...No.

Compressed Tee times exaggerates any play that might contribute to slow play. There's an (old) article on Pope of Slope web site that clears up the myth that proper (9 or 10 minute) Tee times encourage slow play and that compressing folk right up the group in front's backsides is bad for pace of play!

It's the 1 good thing about having a Par 3 to start imo! It forces proper tee times (9 minutes) and there are actually very few cases where equally populated groups get held up - even though it's a naturally long round!

The reason is almost identical to why the distance between cars flowing in a 'queue' on motorways should be much greater than it is - any glitch by *any* group ahead will cause *every* group behind to slow down which will cause all groups except the first out to have slow rounds, whereas if the Tee times are spaced sensibly apart, many glitches that would hold the group behind up are simply absorbed by the buffer(s) that are created, so all groups  get around at 'standard' speed!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 20, 2015)

For our Saturday roll-up we play four ball individual stableford with gimmes on very short putts and within each 4 ball we play a 4BBB match.  At the same time we can enter the Saturday stableford (qualifier) where clearly you have to hole out, and this Saturday quite a few older members were playing in a 'Grandad's Comp - also where you have to hole out.  Now I am of the growing opinion that whilst the first two generally mix OK without too much additional time spent - the 4BBB element does slow things down a bit.  Add in the Saturday Stableford and such as the Grandad comp and I feel you have a recipe for a mess.

And so it was on Saturday as we could see those in the Grandad's comp in the group ahead faffing about on the green marking and lifting very short putts, checking not standing on lines etc - all absolutely as should be - in the right competitive/comp context.  In a friendly saturday roll-up and when the greens are firm I think we can be a bit less precious about such things as I think we should when you have four players scoring individually.

And just to add to things.  The amount of practice swinging going on; chatting whilst should be playing (I am at fault on that one) ; sauntering between shots etc really didn't help.  Also round our place play is slower than maybe 20yrs ago due to the fact that the it seems like the majority of players at my place use trolleys - electric or otherwise - and we are not allowed to take them into the heather.  Well you know what that leads to - and which would be eliminated were we all carrying (I'm not saying that we should be).

Bottom line is that each and every one of us has to be prepared to point out slow play of others - and we won't be able to do that until we recognise and admit out *own *failings in the matter of slow play - and do something about it.


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## chrisd (Jul 20, 2015)

I really think we only get the 2 extremes talked about, people are too slow or too quick. There are a few guys at mine who seem to want to run round then spend ages in the bar afterwards, they are generally 65 + ages, so not the youngsters, and the golf, to me, seems like the excuse to get out and have a few pints on a Sunday and if they get held up a little that's valuable drinking time lost. They are the ones who will bat the ball down on a par 5 about 30 yards short of the green, when if they waited, they could get on but they seem to want to make those in front hurry up by letting them know that they're there behind. Rarely does a 3 ball in a competition or a bounce 4bbb game take more than 4 hours at my place, I play for the golf not the drinking and that speed, at my place, seems about right


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## Smiffy (Jul 20, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Using a trolley is slower due to the fact you have to walk further
		
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Load of rubbish Bob.
I use an electric trolley and I've been accused of a lot of things but NEVER slow play.
If you use your noddle, you are as quick as anybody walking.
It's just a shame that certain people don't use their noddle.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Load of rubbish Bob.
I use an electric trolley and I've been accused of a lot of things but NEVER slow play.
If you use your noddle, you are as quick as anybody walking.
It's just a shame that certain people don't use their noddle.
		
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I think Bob is right - the fact that the majority of members use a trolley - and trolleys can't be taken into our heather - absolutely 100% slows things down as players leave their trolley to hunt for their ball; have to go back to it to bring it closer to where it's found - then selecting and changing clubs.  All slow things down.  

I also observe that players seem more likely to amble along after their electric trolley at a slower pace than if they were carrying, usually chatting with a fellow player happy to amble along at the same speed. and also tend to stop more often between shots as they get something out of their bag, change clothing or whatever.  Just an observation.  Makes sense to me that if I was carrying a load I'd want to get to where I can put it down quicker than if I wasn't carrying it.    I struggle to walk as slowly as I see some of our members walk as they amble along behind their trolleys - understandable for elderly seniors - but not for the majority,

Problem is @Smiffy - far, far too many don't use their noddle.


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## bobmac (Jul 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Load of rubbish Bob.
I use an electric trolley and I've been accused of a lot of things but NEVER slow play.
If you use your noddle, you are as quick as anybody walking.
It's just a shame that certain people don't use their noddle.
		
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But if you carried, you would be quicker.


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## chrisd (Jul 20, 2015)

bobmac said:



			But if you carried, you would be quicker.
		
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If I carried I wouldn't be playing!


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## pokerjoke (Jul 20, 2015)

The whole argument about slow play is absolutely pointless as there are so many reasons.

Over the last month we have lost 2 stalwarts of our club who absolutely loved the game and would just love to be out on the course however slow purely because of their love for the game.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 20, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			The reason is almost identical to why the distance between cars flowing in a 'queue' on motorways should be much greater than it is - any glitch by *any* group ahead will cause *every* group behind to slow down which will cause all groups except the first out to have slow rounds, whereas if the Tee times are spaced sensibly apart, many glitches that would hold the group behind up are simply absorbed by the buffer(s) that are created, so all groups  get around at 'standard' speed!
		
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And once the glitch has happened and the delay introduced in a packed course it can take hours upon hours for the pace of play to return to normal - if it ever does.  For the same reason as you get long queues on motorways long after the incident that initiated the initial traffic jam has gone.


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## colintheb (Jul 20, 2015)

Should be an app for that!

Thinking out loud here.
An app that tracks your progress over the course with GPS.
Lets you know if your on time, behind or in front.

Dashboard type screen that lets you know if your on time or behind.
Press a button on it if your searching for a ball for more than a couple of minutes.
Another button if you let a group through.

Two way link with the course starter and the gadget.
Starter can send messages to let you know to speed up.

The gadget would be supplied by the course to every group of golfers.
A deposit of Â£20 for the gadget with a fiver (fine) withheld if your group is playing outside of your time.

Make it back to the clubhouse within a certain time limit and no fine.
Full deposit returned.

50p on to day ticket to help pay for the gadgets.

As I said, thinking out loud.


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## Slime (Jul 20, 2015)

hovis said:



			The main problem with slow play is *i have yet to find a player that admits to being slow.*

I recently played a brigade final and two of the chaps i played with define the word slow.  On the 7th they started moaning about slow play on their home courses!!!!!!!!!
		
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I'm slow and I've said so on more than one occasion! 
I, and my mates, prefer to amble round the course rather than walk at a pace pre-determined by others.
I'm not fortunate enough to play golf regularly, so, when I do get the chance, I make the most of it by making it last as long as I can.
The four of us can take up to five hours on a lovely sunny day, even on an empty golf course.

*Slime*.


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## Old Skier (Jul 20, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			For our Saturday roll-up we play four ball individual stableford with gimmes on very short putts and within each 4 ball we play a 4BBB match.  At the same time we can enter the Saturday stableford (qualifier) where clearly you have to hole out.
		
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SLH slightly confused. Are you saying you are playing 3 comps in one here including the club run Q?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 20, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			SLH slightly confused. Are you saying you are playing 3 comps in one here including the club run Q?
		
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Yup - the roll-up is unofficial; as is the 4bbb within the roll-up.  The Club Stableford and Grandads are both club qualifiers and can be played alongside the roll-up comps.  I'm not sure if you could play in the Club Stableford AND the Grandads on Saturday.  But some of us play in the Club Stableford and some who could played in the Grandad's on Sat.


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## hovis (Jul 20, 2015)

Slime said:



			I'm slow and I've said so on more than one occasion! 
I, and my mates, prefer to amble round the course rather than walk at a pace pre-determined by others.
I'm not fortunate enough to play golf regularly, so, when I do get the chance, I make the most of it by making it last as long as I can.
The four of us can take up to five hours on a lovely sunny day, even on an empty golf course.

*Slime*.
		
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That's all fine with me.  Spend all day out there if it makes you happy.    Its the people that do this but think "sod them,  i ent letting them through " that wind me up


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## Slime (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm perfectly happy letting people through.
It gives me a few minutes to sit down and relax for a bit longer, maybe even have a little smoke too.
Slow players are fine, as long as they realise that they are slow players!

*Slime*.


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## Neil_ingle (Jul 20, 2015)

Some good points here and thanks for all taking the effort to join in.

With all the posts it's obviously a concern for many who enjoy the game.

I agree electric trolleys are slower, I've used one for two years now I carry. However carrying isn't an option for everybody.

If using a trolley you need to be aware of where you leave it and the exit route to the next tee etc.

On reading all the posts I honestly think the only solution is that people need to be honesty don't if alone or with there regular groups they can honestly say they are slow they need to be put at the back of the field.

We have known quick and slow players and everybody is within there rights to enjoy the game at their own pace. Just don't let it upset other people with different mind sets!


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 20, 2015)

chillicon said:



			No doubt, but everyone is quicker when they carry therefore a partial solution to the problem.
		
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That's a sweeping statement. I played in a 3 ball on Saturday all pushing trollies, the 3 ball behind us were all carrying at least they were until I lost sight of them they were so far behind.

The method of transporting your clubs won't necessarily speed things up, what will is people being ready to play when it's their turn, walking at a decent pace between shots, not having a ridiculous PSR and generally not faffing about.


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## bobmac (Jul 20, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			what will is people being ready to play when it's their turn, walking at a decent pace between shots, not having a ridiculous PSR and generally not faffing about.
		
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A decent pace to you will be too fast others and perhaps some folk like faffing around.
No-one should try and dictate to others how fast they should walk or play.
As long as slow players call the faster players through, they can play as slow as they want IMO


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 20, 2015)

bobmac said:



			A decent pace to you will be too fast others and perhaps some folk like faffing around.
No-one should try and dictate to others how fast they should walk or play.
As long as slow players call the faster players through, they can play as slow as they want IMO
		
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Calling through is fine on a quiet course Bob, but calling through doesn't work when it's busy.


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## bobmac (Jul 20, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Calling through is fine on a quiet course Bob, but calling through doesn't work when it's busy.
		
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Post no. 43




			You either make sure the slower players let faster players through (encouraged/monitored by course marshalls (stuffed or otherwise))
Or
The faster players go out first
		
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## colintheb (Jul 20, 2015)

calling through doesn't work but it just might release stress for the group behind.


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## delc (Jul 20, 2015)

Neil_ingle said:



			Hi,

Like many clubs, mine suffers from some shocking examples of slow play and a lack of etiquette around the problem.

Now I know the correct thing to do is let's quicker groups through.

However I don't always think this helps the situation that much.

Yes the quick groups get through but the whole process of letting groups through slows the whole field down even further as inevitably the slow group is waiting to play while letting people through.

I think the solution should be something like putting "known" slower players at the back or start (with a gap) of a comp.

Slow play will eventually kill the game!

However after seeing how long the pros were taking to hit puts at the open on Thursday they aren't exactly setting a good example!!

Thoughts?
Neil (Cheshire)
		
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How about shooting some of the slower tour players to set a good example?


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## drdel (Jul 20, 2015)

Fast and Slow are subjective terms so we are never going to get full agreement.  

18 holes are likely to take between 4 and 5 hours on a weekend on a relatively busy course - On days when I'm short of time I play 9 holes: unless you're in a competition how many holes you play is entirely up to the golfers.

If you are into a sport you'll find the time, Rugby and football fans will happily stand around watching their teams for well over 3 hours and probably make it a whole day out.

Most of us play a sport for enjoyment and to expect us all to rush about just like every other day of the week rather misses the point of it being fun.

Take the fun out of golf and patronage will drop.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 20, 2015)

drdel said:



			...Take the fun out of golf and patronage will drop.
		
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And therein lies one big conundrum - allow a round of golf to take too long and - yup - patronage will drop


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## delc (Jul 21, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Calling through is fine on a quiet course Bob, but calling through doesn't work when it's busy.
		
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I was in the last group out in a 4BBB club match yesterday morning. There was a two-ball following us who were obviously much faster than us, but we were keeping pace with the groups ahead. I would have liked to have called them though, but they would have only been held up by the next group, and we would have been late for the post match dinner. Only just made it as it was!


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## Slime (Jul 21, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And therein lies one big conundrum - *allow a round of golf to take too long and - yup - patronage will drop*

Click to expand...

Force players to play faster than they'd wish - yup - patronage would drop.

*Slime*.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 21, 2015)

delc said:



			I was in the last group out in a 4BBB club match yesterday morning. There was a two-ball following us who were obviously much faster than us, but we were keeping pace with the groups ahead. I would have liked to have called them though, but they would have only been held up by the next group, and we would have been late for the post match dinner. Only just made it as it was!
		
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Imo you should have let them through and then let the other group decide wether they would or not.

The course ahead could have been clearer unless of course you could have seen 5 or 6 holes ahead.

What if you had only been on the 3rd hole and had the whole round to go?

It just goes to show that some course have got it all wrong,having 4s and 3s and 2s on the course at the same time just doesn't work.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Imo you should have let them through and then let the other group decide wether they would or not.

The course ahead could have been clearer unless of course you could have seen 5 or 6 holes ahead.

What if you had only been on the 3rd hole and had the whole round to go?

It just goes to show that some course have got it all wrong,having 4s and 3s and 2s on the course at the same time just doesn't work.
		
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I completely agree about setting times on the course where it's 2 balls, or 3/4 balls (could even have it so that they tee off either the 1st or the 10th, and switch this every couple of hours.


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## patricks148 (Jul 21, 2015)

delc said:



			I was in the last group out in a 4BBB club match yesterday morning. There was a two-ball following us who were obviously much faster than us, but we were keeping pace with the groups ahead. I would have liked to have called them though, but they would have only been held up by the next group, and we would have been late for the post match dinner. Only just made it as it was!
		
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pokerjoke said:



			Imo you should have let them through and then let the other group decide wether they would or not.

The course ahead could have been clearer unless of course you could have seen 5 or 6 holes ahead.

What if you had only been on the 3rd hole and had the whole round to go?

It just goes to show that some course have got it all wrong,having 4s and 3s and 2s on the course at the same time just doesn't work.
		
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yep agree, should have let them though, if they are held up by the group in front that is a matter for them and perhaps they could have got though them as well.

Education is a factor for slow play as well, some people are unaware of etiquette  and don't know they are supposed to let faster players though.


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## StrangelyBrown (Jul 21, 2015)

chillicon said:



			Amongst other things, get more people carrying their bags.
		
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My Dad, and pretty much everyone that he plays with through the week would have to give up.

Introducing people to the concept of ready golf would help.

Educating people that they should let faster players through, even if the course is busy, is the correct thing to do.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

Slime said:



			Force players to play faster than they'd wish - yup - patronage would drop.

*Slime*.
		
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Is that not just what @drdel said and about which I commented that therein lies the conundrum?


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## bobmac (Jul 21, 2015)

delc said:



			I was in the last group out in a 4BBB club match yesterday morning. There was a two-ball following us who were obviously much faster than us, but we were keeping pace with the groups ahead. I would have liked to have called them though, but they would have only been held up by the next group
		
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How can the 4 ball in front of you call through the 2 ball if you dont let them through?
Having said that, if it was a match then it would have been in the club diary and the 2 ball should have chosen another time to play.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Imo you should have let them through and then let the other group decide wether they would or not.

The course ahead could have been clearer unless of course you could have seen 5 or 6 holes ahead.

What if you had only been on the 3rd hole and had the whole round to go?

It just goes to show that some course have got it all wrong,having 4s and 3s and 2s on the course at the same time just doesn't work.
		
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I agree - should have offered to let the two ball play through.  Our roll-up on Sat had an inter-club ladies match behind us - 8 singles pairings.  The first pair caught our last 4 ball on the 3rd tee.  They were immediately called through - but declined as they themselves realised that 8 singles matches going through 6 fourballs would cause a mess.  But point is - they were called through.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I completely agree about setting times on the course where it's 2 balls, or 3/4 balls (could even have it so that they tee off either the 1st or the 10th, and switch this every couple of hours.
		
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We had this - but have temporarily dumped it whole we trial our tee-booking system.  It seems good idea but can be a nonsense.  For instance the tee is reserved for 2 balls from 9:30am-11:30am - and so a 4 ball roll-up has to wait until 11:30am to tee off - even when no 2 balls are going off.  Allow flexibility around the 11:30am window closing so that 4balls can go off sooner and you might as well not bother with the window.

And having alternate start tee can also cause consternation if you are not very careful - as it has at my place - snother reason we are trying out the tee-booking.

But we may go back to it if the tee booking trial doesn't work or go down well


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

StrangelyBrown said:



			My Dad, and pretty much everyone that he plays with through the week would have to give up.

Introducing people to the concept of ready golf would help.

Educating people that they should let faster players through, even if the course is busy, is the correct thing to do.
		
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Quite right - but if the question is _why_ do rounds take longer these days than they used to, then I am 100% convinced that one cause (for all the reasons expressed elsewhere in this thread) is that today the majority of players use some form of trolley - when in the past that wasn't the case.  As trolleys ain't going away it then comes down to education and enforcement.


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## Slab (Jul 21, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Quite right - but if the question is _why_ do rounds take longer these days than they used to, then I am 100% convinced that one cause (for all the reasons expressed elsewhere in this thread) is that today the majority of players use some form of trolley - when in the past that wasn't the case.  As trolleys ain't going away it then comes down to education and enforcement.
		
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If the majority use a trolly and if these do indeed increase the time required for a round then there's two options, somehow make up that additional time in other aspects of the game (difficult if there's not much wiggle room) or increase the amount of time it takes to play a round such that there is zero expectation of a round being complete in xxx minutes 

Hey presto no more slow play due to trolly's


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## hovis (Jul 21, 2015)

When i played golf in Cyprus the group in front were given a warning by the Marshall.   By the 8th hole they were still slow so the marshal said " your 35 minutes behind so can you make your way directly to the 11th tee"  they wasn't happy thay they missed out holes but it done the job


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

Slab said:



			If the majority use a trolly and if these do indeed increase the time required for a round then there's two options, somehow make up that additional time in other aspects of the game (difficult if there's not much wiggle room) or increase the amount of time it takes to play a round such that there is zero expectation of a round being complete in xxx minutes 

Hey presto no more slow play due to trolly's
		
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Bit like SouthWest Trains issuing new timetables - that all seemed to have the trains arriving in Waterloo 10mins later than before. And hey presto - a lot fewer late running trains; fewer service penalties, and passengers expectations of their arrival time changed


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## drdel (Jul 21, 2015)

I'd like to see the statistical proof that trolley users are slower. There are too many variables to make that claim. I suspect that the golfers who use carry bags are probably (on average) younger than those using a trolley and consequently may also walk slightly quicker.

Golfers who do not put their trolley ready for the next hole would probably do exactly the same with a  carry-.

I always used to use a carry bag but an injured shoulder led me to use a trolley because the straps caused pain. Used it ever since and my personal experience is the time I take to do a solo round hasn't changed one iota.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

hovis said:



			When i played golf in Cyprus the group in front were given a warning by the Marshall.   By the 8th hole they were still slow so the marshal said " your 35 minutes behind so can you make your way directly to the 11th tee"  they wasn't happy thay they missed out holes but it done the job
		
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draconian - but effective I suppose


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## Slab (Jul 21, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Bit like SouthWest Trains issuing new timetables - that all seemed to have the trains arriving in Waterloo 10mins later than before. And hey presto - a lot fewer late running trains; fewer service penalties, and *passengers expectations of their arrival time changed* 

Click to expand...

While there's obviously some intended humour in the notion, the last part of your post does suggest that if golfers time expectations could be managed better the slow play issue such as it is would be further reduced


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 21, 2015)

I am not sure trolly users are any slower than carrying players. It's more about what a player does when they get to the ball or the green. As for making more people carrying, that will preclude many seniors, for most clubs the back bone of the club in the week when most members are working. Sadly too many members have the "over my dead body" attitude to letting players through and no amount of education or on course arguing is going to change their view. Not sure what they can do other than employing more marshalls (and the potential costs to a club unless you find someone prepared to volunteer regularly).


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

drdel said:



			I'd like to see the statistical proof that trolley users are slower. There are too many variables to make that claim. I suspect that the golfers who use carry bags are probably (on average) younger than those using a trolley and consequently may also walk slightly quicker.

Golfers who do not put their trolley ready for the next hole would probably do exactly the same with a  carry-.

I always used to use a carry bag but an injured shoulder led me to use a trolley because the straps caused pain. Used it ever since and my personal experience is the time I take to do a solo round hasn't changed one iota.
		
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Whatever other variables come into it - if you can take your clubs to your ball wherever it is lying then you *must *be in a position to play sooner than if you have to leave your bag 20-30yds away.  And when carrying I suggest most will want to get from A to B as quick as possible to put their bag down.  No such 'want' when using a trolley - so more likely to saunter.


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## Crocodile JD (Jul 21, 2015)

Might be a bit drastic but may be a rules change so that higher handicapers can only play stableford not medal and be made to pick up after not being able to score point failure to do so could mean N/R perhaps ?


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## chellie (Jul 21, 2015)

Crocodile JD said:



			Might be a bit drastic but may be a rules change so that higher handicapers can only play stableford not medal and be made to pick up after not being able to score point failure to do so could mean N/R perhaps ?
		
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Playing off a high handicap doesn't automatically mean we are slow. The slowest games I've had or been behind have been with low handicappers.


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## Paul77 (Jul 21, 2015)

When I drove into the car par the other night, I saw two folk heading off the 3rd tee. By the time I got settled and onto the tee they looked long gone. I caught up with them on the 5th tee. Either I was chanking it or they took a rest. I can do 9 holes in about an hour and fifteen maybe less. It's a pretty good cardio workout too.


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## Crocodile JD (Jul 21, 2015)

chellie said:



			Playing off a high handicap doesn't automatically mean we are slow. The slowest games I've had or been behind have been with low handicappers.
		
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But more likely that we would be looking for more balls off the tee no?


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## chellie (Jul 21, 2015)

Crocodile JD said:



			But more likely that we would be looking for more balls off the tee no?
		
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Usually not for me. In my case it's having a card in my hand which means I'll have some stupid scoring holes. That could be down to messing up putts or something stupid like pushing a shot into a bunker or two so dropping shots that way.

Slow rounds I've noticed have been people taking ages and ages over putts or the big hitters who aren't always straight so it's there balls you're looking for. I've yet to end up on another fairway with my drives

I'd have the wrath of the Ladies committee on me if I was slow.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 21, 2015)

Organise tee times to have the fastest players out early working through to the slowest players late in the day.

If you want to play early, speed up!

Controversial but the culprits would soon get the message.


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## Crocodile JD (Jul 21, 2015)

chellie said:



			Usually not for me. In my case it's having a card in my hand which means I'll have some stupid scoring holes. That could be down to messing up putts or something stupid like pushing a shot into a bunker or two so dropping shots that way.

Slow rounds I've noticed have been people taking ages and ages over putts or the big hitters who aren't always straight so it's there balls you're looking for. I've yet to end up on another fairway with my drives

I'd have the wrath of the Ladies committee on me if I was slow.
		
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I was thinking that it could be done by divisions, not a new thing anyway, but with low h/c playing div 1 medal and Higher h/c playing div 2 stableford so overall on any day less people are playing medal who ever the culprits of slow play actually are. This is based on the premiss that medal is slower than stableford generally which I conceed I don't know for sure but putting out when no points can be made for example is not essential in Stableford and would speed things up if the rule I suggested about making it mandatory to pick up was applied which could apply in the senario you mention Chellie eg to many shots in a bunker means no need to get your putter out


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## Crocodile JD (Jul 21, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Organise tee times to have the fastest players out early working through to the slowest players late in the day.

If you want to play early, speed up!

Controversial but the culprits would soon get the message.
		
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But this still leaves the problem of how to enforce


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## Imurg (Jul 21, 2015)

The biggest problem leading to slow play is the number of ways there are to play slowly.
There are so many things that can be done to speed things up.
There are low handicappers who play quick as well as some that play slow....there are higher handicappers capable of playing quickly and slowly, there are carriers of bags who leave them in the wrong place, as do some trolleyers...some peopl3 exist in 3 or 4 different categories....
It's such a complex question and an even more complex answer.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 21, 2015)

drdel said:



			I'd like to see the statistical proof that trolley users are slower. There are too many variables to make that claim. I suspect that the golfers who use carry bags are probably (on average) younger than those using a trolley and consequently may also walk slightly quicker.
		
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It's just anecdotal but I sometimes carry and sometimes use a trolley and there's no doubt in my mind that carrying is quicker. Largely because you can move more directly around the course, walk across greens with clubs etc.

However, I don't think getting everyone to carry (even if possible) is the panacea for slow play.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 21, 2015)

Crocodile JD said:



			But this still leaves the problem of how to enforce
		
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I think in most private clubs it is known who the culprits are. Probably a totally unenforcable solution (legally) but it would certainly shake a few people up if they couldn't tee off till 4pm on a Saturday


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## Slime (Jul 21, 2015)

Paul77 said:



			When I drove into the car par the other night, I saw two folk heading off the 3rd tee. By the time I got settled and onto the tee they looked long gone. I caught up with them on the 5th tee. Either I was chanking it or they took a rest. I can do 9 holes in about an hour and fifteen maybe less. *It's a pretty good cardio workout too.*

Click to expand...

I play football for a cardio workout, I play golf for the fresh air, relaxation and banter with my mates ....................... that's why I don't rush.




drive4show said:



			Organise tee times to have the fastest players out early working through to the slowest players late in the day.
*If you want to play early, speed up!
*
Controversial but the culprits would soon get the message.
		
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That's right, penalise those who play, according to some, slowly!
And if you want to play a twilight round, slow down?
*
Slime*.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 21, 2015)

Slime said:



			That's right, penalise those who play, according to some, slowly!
		
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You could argue that slow players are penalising everyone behind them?


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## North Mimms (Jul 21, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Organise tee times to have the fastest players out early working through to the slowest players late in the day.

If you want to play early, speed up!

Controversial but the culprits would soon get the message.
		
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I have recently moved to a club with large ladies section (section is large, not the ladies!)
Tee times for weekday comp are split into three blocks.
If you want to play in earliest block, you are expected to get round in 3 hours 10 minutes.
And they do!
Slower players must play in later block.

If you hold up the field ,your next tee time will be later. Harsh but effective


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## Slime (Jul 21, 2015)

drive4show said:



			You could argue that slow players are penalising everyone behind them?
		
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Not if they let them through.

*Slime*.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 21, 2015)

Slime said:



			Not if they let them through.

*Slime*.
		
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That in itself just causes slowpoints on the course. It's not acceptable to think it's Ok to play slowly and let people through. Everytime a group plays through it can add 5 or more minutes holdup, even more if the course is busy.


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## patricks148 (Jul 21, 2015)

North Mimms said:



			I have recently moved to a club with large ladies section (section is large, not the ladies!)
Tee times for weekday comp are split into three blocks.
If you want to play in earliest block, you are expected to get round in 3 hours 10 minutes.
And they do!
Slower players must play in later block.

If you hold up the field ,your next tee time will be later. Harsh but effective
		
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i like the sound of that:thup:


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## Slime (Jul 21, 2015)

But surely part of the problem is that someone who is accused of being slow may totally disagree and merely think that the accuser just plays fast!
Some people would be cosidered slow through no fault of their own due to age, disability, golfing ability etc., etc., etc...
What time of night would they be allowed to play?

*Slime*.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 21, 2015)

Slime said:



			But surely part of the problem is that someone who is accused of being slow may totally disagree and merely think that the accuser just plays fast!
Some people would be cosidered slow through no fault of their own due to age, disability, golfing ability etc., etc., etc...
What time of night would they be allowed to play?

*Slime*.
		
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There are obviously perceptions, some right and some wrong. 

To some people, anything longer than 2 hours for a 4ball is slow, others think 5 hours is acceptable. A lot of clubs have indications either on boards around the course or on the scorecard showing what is acceptable so it's easy to see who is slow.....or too quick!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's just anecdotal but I sometimes carry and sometimes use a trolley and there's no doubt in my mind that carrying is quicker. Largely because you can move more directly around the course, walk across greens with clubs etc.

However, I don't think getting everyone to carry (even if possible) is the panacea for slow play.
		
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You are quite right.  I think that clubs could find a way of demonstrating the difference in pace.  So maybe get six four balls each playing three holes shotgun start, and time them - then get the same four balls to play the same three holes using trolleys.  And see what the difference is.  Maybe video a couple (or all) of the sets of fourballs so that members can see the differences in how the four balls played the holes when carrying and not carrying.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 21, 2015)

Anyone who is thinking the problem that creates slow play between carrying and electric needs to come down from the clouds,there are 50 things that are worse imo.


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## Neil_ingle (Jul 21, 2015)

drive4show said:



			That in itself just causes slowpoints on the course. It's not acceptable to think it's Ok to play slowly and let people through. Everytime a group plays through it can add 5 or more minutes holdup, even more if the course is busy.
		
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My point exactly, letting people through because your slow is good etiquette but only slows the field even further. 
Plus if a slow group has to let one group through how many holes before the next and the next and the next. Get my point.

I also love the ideas about time guides at certain points on the coarse/card.

The split tee times for faster, mid pace and slow groups is also a great idea.

Neil


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## Imurg (Jul 21, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You are quite right.  I think that clubs could find a way of demonstrating the difference in pace.  So maybe get six four balls each playing three holes shotgun start, and time them - then get the same four balls to play the same three holes using trolleys.  And see what the difference is.  Maybe video a couple (or all) of the sets of fourballs so that members can see the differences in how the four balls played the holes when carrying and not carrying.
		
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Well, unless they play the holes in exactly the same way its a worthless exercise


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## delc (Jul 21, 2015)

Slime said:



			But surely part of the problem is that someone who is accused of being slow may totally disagree and merely think that the accuser just plays fast!
Some people would be cosidered slow through no fault of their own due to age, disability, golfing ability etc., etc., etc...
What time of night would they be allowed to play?

*Slime*.
		
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How quickly or slowly a playing group gets round the course often depends on how many times they have to search in the rough, and what sort of trouble they get into. Raking a lot of bunkers can waste a bit of time. Also a bitterly fought match, or players being in contention for a win in a stroke play competition, when they take a lot of time and care over their putts, can slow them down somewhat.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 21, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone who is thinking the problem that creates slow play between carrying and electric needs to come down from the clouds,there are 50 things that are worse imo.
		
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Not suggesting for a moment that it's the main cause - just one of a load of things that have combined to give us the long rounds we experience today - and I think you've got to tackle them all to make a big difference


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## palindromicbob (Jul 22, 2015)

10-12 minute tee times for 4 balls and enforce start times. Especially to stop the guys that think it's ok to tee off as soon a the group ahead have hit their second shots because they are all ready to play,  even if this means teeing off 3 or 4 minutes before they are allocated.


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## StrangelyBrown (Jul 22, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone who is thinking the problem that creates slow play between carrying and electric needs to come down from the clouds,there are 50 things that are worse imo.
		
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This.

I alternate between carrying and using a trolley and I can't say that I notice any difference in pace of play whatsoever.

Slow play is more often caused by players not being ready and players looking for lost balls and not calling the next group through. There's also the occasional player with a ridiculous routine, but that's rare among the players at my club. 

Slow play would be mitigated if there was a great big sign on the 1st tee saying "If you're looking for a lost ball, call the next group through while you're looking rather than taking your 5 minutes _then_ calling them through".


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## Crazyface (Jul 22, 2015)

sybez said:



			maybe we're all in too much of a rush to play the game we're supposed to be enjoying. Why not just accept the pace of play on the day and just get on with it rather than moaning? If you don't have time to enjoy a game that may take 4 hours to play.... Don't?
		
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this....... With knobs on !!!!!!


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## Crazyface (Jul 22, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I think Bob is right - the fact that the majority of members use a trolley - and trolleys can't be taken into our heather - absolutely 100% slows things down as players leave their trolley to hunt for their ball; have to go back to it to bring it closer to where it's found - then selecting and changing clubs.  All slow things down.
		
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???????????? iF YOU'VE HIT YOUR BALL INTO HEATHER THEN YOU JUST TAKE A 9 IRON IN and if you find the blasted thing then you attempt to get it out with that.


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## chellie (Jul 22, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			???????????? iF YOU'VE HIT YOUR BALL INTO HEATHER THEN YOU JUST TAKE A 9 IRON IN and if you find the blasted thing then you attempt to get it out with that.
		
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I was thinking that as well. Same as if your ball goes into the rough.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 22, 2015)

Crazyface said:



			???????????? iF YOU'VE HIT YOUR BALL INTO HEATHER THEN YOU JUST TAKE A 9 IRON IN and if you find the blasted thing then you attempt to get it out with that.
		
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YES!!! But too many members at my place don't do that.


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## Paul77 (Jul 22, 2015)

I think the problem comes from everyone wanting to line their shot up like a pro. Taking ages to pick where they want to go and then hover over the ball waiting for the wind to die and then top it 20 yards down the fairway x4 people. 

OTT of course but it only needs to happen once in a day for it to slow play for the whole day.


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## LIG (Jul 22, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			YES!!! But too many members at my place don't do that.
		
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There's no cure for Numpties I'm afraid!


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## Slab (Jul 22, 2015)

I think pace is like driving distance

Folks might disregard their longest drive/quickest round but the next couple become the players distance off the tee/pace you should play at irrespective of the other factors and considerations 

I never see posts from forum members saying their club has just measured or re-measured the expected pace at their course so either its being done without memberâ€™s knowledge or its not being done, maybe it was done decades ago and doesnâ€™t take course changes into account 

Am I a bit cynical in thinking most courses havenâ€™t a sccoby how long a round should take outside of a cursory guesstimate and members are then left to judge for themselves what's slow 

Iâ€™d even have a fiver each way that there are courses whoâ€™ve measured the expected times for a hole from tee to green and not tee to tee


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## ScienceBoy (Jul 22, 2015)

Courses are too long and not cut low enough under trees and off line enough to make finding balls easy. 

There should be more shorter length tee options and thought on ensuring rough height is suitable.

Also 18 holes is too many, 12, 9 and 6 hole courses and cards should be available as well as competitions.

Those options alone are not enough, education on pace is required too.

I do firmly believe offering well thought out and catered for shorter alternatives is the way to go. 12 holes to me does seem like the ideal...


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## Crawfy (Jul 22, 2015)

The pro games needs addressing as it is a benchmark for amateurs (Keegan Bradley-like pre shot routines, stopping to check wind direction every 30secs, 3 club changes per shot)

A start of season education process for new and existing members may help to draw attention to the quick wins which will save everyone time

Play 'ready' golf in bounce games
Leave bag in correct place at green
Know your limitations (don't wait for a green 250yd away to clear if you only hit 150y)
Be ready on the tee
Mark cards as you walk
Not all balls need to be marked and replaced in bounce games

Not rocket science


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2015)

We have some that go out before our roll up group on a Saturday that are notoriously slow and stubbornly refuse to let anyone through regardless. We've raised it with them, and with the club and nothing has changed. If the club aren't prepared to help, bearing in mind as the first large group out, they dictate the pace of the course for the day, then what hope is there


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 22, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone who is thinking the problem that creates slow play between carrying and electric needs to come down from the clouds,there are 50 things that are worse imo.
		
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Absolutely


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## Curls (Jul 22, 2015)

I think the answer is quite simple but wouldn't be liked. Banning 4 balls at busy times. Our club champs, Captains days etc are run in 3 balls and the average is about 4 hours. Get behind a spin up Saturday morning and you could easily be looking at 5. 

The club probably won't enforce it, the spin ups like to have side wagers on 4 ball games. I understand many prefer 4 balls, so I'm not saying the should be banned across the board, but perhaps on a Medal morning between say 8 and 11.

Anyway if that isn't possible then the best cure for slow play is to try to not let it affect your game. As bad as a 5 hour round is, if you've just amassed 23 points you'll be rightly hacked off. Play well and score 40 and you might feel a bit better. So just accept that it's slow, try not to let the ignorance of the group ahead drag you down, and settle into a slower paced game. Might save your blood pressure if nothing else


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## chillicon (Jul 22, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Anyone who is thinking the problem that creates slow play between carrying and electric needs to come down from the clouds,there are 50 things that are worse imo.
		
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Don't think anyone was suggesting it is the only issue. It isn't. But it does contribute. Obviously trolley users are going to disagree, because they don't want to feel like they are part of the problem. They are.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 22, 2015)

LIG said:



			There's no cure for Numpties I'm afraid!


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There is though - we should tell the worst offenders to get on with it and to stop faffing about.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 22, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Absolutely
		
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I never suggested that Trolleys are the (main) cause of slow play - they are one contributory factor - where perhaps someone who doesn't fail on another aspect of slow play makes up for it here.  But when all combined x 4 players in a group we get to the situation we are in.  

I think we must try and identify all aspects of playing today that can contribute to slow play and define a Slow Player.  Then each ask ourselves to honestly identify our similarities with the Slow Player.  We are not to be interested in where we differ from that Slow Player because where we find differences we let ourselves off the hook as that being evidence that we can't be a Slow Player.  

I think we golfers are all slow in some aspect(s )of our play, but we are a bit like the alcoholic drinker in denial who says he can't be an alcoholic as he doesn't add whisky to his cornflakes in the morning - whilst wilfully ignoring the fact that he has half a bottle afterwards to wash them down.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 22, 2015)

The pro at my old muni had the answer.
Double the green fee with a 50% rebate to those completing their round in under 4 hours.

Might lead to a few murders on the golf course though.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 22, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I never suggested that Trolleys are the (main) cause of slow play - they are one contributory factor - where perhaps someone who doesn't fail on another aspect of slow play makes up for it here.  But when all combined x 4 players in a group we get to the situation we are in.  

I think we must try and identify all aspects of playing today that can contribute to slow play and define a Slow Player.  Then each ask ourselves to honestly identify our similarities with the Slow Player.  We are not to be interested in where we differ from that Slow Player because where we find differences we let ourselves off the hook as that being evidence that we can't be a Slow Player.  

I think we golfers are all slow in some aspect(s )of our play, but we are a bit like the alcoholic drinker in denial who says he can't be an alcoholic as he doesn't add whisky to his cornflakes in the morning - whilst wilfully ignoring the fact that he has half a bottle afterwards to wash them down.
		
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Absolutely!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 22, 2015)

I liked that the card for the local assistant pro comp held yesterday at my place had a time on the card against each hole by which the player had to complete the hole.  So the 12:57pm start time group had on their card that the 1st had to be completed by 13:14pm and so on - with the 18th to be completed by 17:22pm


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 22, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I liked that the card for the local assistant pro comp held yesterday at my place had a time on the card against each hole by which the player had to complete the hole.  So the 12:57pm start had that the 1st had to be completed by 13:14pm and so on - with the 18th to be completed by 17:22pm
		
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They tend to have that in the "bigger" amateur events as well and it really does force you to think about your pace of play. I've been in a group "on the clock" and it is not fun.

Only works if you have officials out there checking and enforcing it though.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 22, 2015)

Crawfy said:



			The pro games needs addressing as it is a benchmark for amateurs (Keegan Bradley-like pre shot routines, stopping to check wind direction every 30secs, 3 club changes per shot)

A start of season education process for new and existing members may help to draw attention to the quick wins which will save everyone time

Play 'ready' golf in bounce games
Leave bag in correct place at green
*Know your limitations (don't wait for a green 250yd away to clear if you only hit 150y)*
Be ready on the tee
Mark cards as you walk
Not all balls need to be marked and replaced in bounce games

Not rocket science
		
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BiB - and if you are on the green don't be pee'd off and indulge in turning and glaring if a ball rolls up and on that was clearly struck from a long way out.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 22, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			They tend to have that in the "bigger" amateur events as well and it really does force you to think about your pace of play. I've been in a group "on the clock" and it is not fun.

Only works if you have officials out there checking and enforcing it though.
		
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Except that you could enforce that you have to enter your finish time on the card or in the scoring system so that groups can be checked retrospectively and players common to slow rounds identified.  Besides if you knew that at any point you could be asked on your progress against the card you'd maybe be more inclined to get a move on - and your partners would have something to chide you with if your group was falling behind time. Maybe?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 22, 2015)

Solution = Education of the best way to go around a course , where a buggy or trolley is parked , when to make your score card , being ready when it's your turn , being willing to play ready golf and having an awareness that there is more than just you on a golf course. 

Also realise when there are quicker groups on the course , if you are losing ground then realise it's your responsibility to make up ground or let others through. 

Slow play is an issue with golf and it's an issue that cause concern and problems with all golfers - its not just trolley or buggy users or seniors or high HC or low HC or ladies or juniors - have witnessed slow play from many people of a variety of age and ability 

Also players trying to rush around a golf course in itself can cause just as many issues


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## Hobbit (Jul 22, 2015)

A machine gun aimed down the 14th fairway, that's start firing at 4pm on a comp day. If you're not past it by then, you're too slow. But at least the slow ones won't be out the next week....... providing the greens staff have cleared away the bodies.

(Huge tongue in cheek smiley for all those that take life too seriously)


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 22, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			They tend to have that in the "bigger" amateur events as well and it really does force you to think about your pace of play. I've been in a group "on the clock" and it is not fun.

Only works if you have officials out there checking and enforcing it though.
		
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I had it too in a national competition, only takes 1 person to drag the group down. My initial reaction was anger towards the slow guy and I started rushing my shots a bit while he just carried on the same


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 22, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I had it too in a national competition, only takes 1 person to drag the group down. My initial reaction was anger towards the slow guy and I started rushing my shots a bit while he just carried on the same  

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Yeah. In the same comp this year I was reminding my group to keep the pace of play up but I'm generally the one that ends up rushing while the slow player is oblivious.

The year we were on the clock was a wee bit unfair, actually. We'd been held up for most of the first 12 holes or so, waiting on every hole. The group ahead were getting hassled by the marshalls all the way and finally got their act together at the same time as two of us lost balls on the same hole. We'd have been well ahead of our time had we not been held up but were already behind schedule due to the delays, lost a hole thanks to ten mins searching for balls and were under the cosh right away.


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## woody69 (Jul 22, 2015)

I don't really understand threads like this. The difference between "slow" play and "quick" is marginal on each hole over 18 of them.

Play every hole in 10 minutes and you'll be done in 3 hours. Play every hole in 15 minutes and it's 4.5 hours. Being 'slow' is all about perception. If you are waiting on every tee and it takes 4 hours you're moaning it's slow. If you don't wait and it still takes 4 hours to some that's fine.

Course layout and tee times are the biggest contributors to slower rounds of golf. Being ready to play, PSR, leaving bags the other side of the green etc are only minor contributing factors. People don't usually behave the same way at every hole so just because someone left their bag the wrong side meaning it takes them 10 seconds longer to be clear of the green doesn't mean they will do it on every hole.

At our course we have a short par 4, par 3, then big dog leg par 4, which some take on then a long walk to the 10th. All these factors means groups often concertina up in this area and if someone loses a ball then you get people waiting and people moaning of slow play. Add the half-way house into the mix and suddenly the 4 hour round is 4.5+

There are simple improvements that can be made, such as allowing groups behind to play up on par 3's if they are on the tee whilst you are putting and also when you let a quicker group through, you don't simply stop and let them play, you play up with them to lessen the impact further down the field.

Ultimately as long as I am drifting along keeping up with the group in front though and not being forced to wait for greens to clear etc then I'm happy whether the golf takes 3.5 hours (very rare) or 4.5 hours.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 22, 2015)

woody69 said:



			I don't really understand threads like this. The difference between "slow" play and "quick" is marginal on each hole over 18 of them.

Play every hole in 10 minutes and you'll be done in 3 hours. Play every hole in 15 minutes and it's 4.5 hours. Being 'slow' is all about perception.* If you are waiting on every tee and it takes 4 hours you're moaning it's slow. If you don't wait and it still takes 4 hours to some that's fine.*

Course layout and tee times are the biggest contributors to slower rounds of golf. Being ready to play, PSR, leaving bags the other side of the green etc are only minor contributing factors. People don't usually behave the same way at every hole so just because someone left their bag the wrong side meaning it takes them 10 seconds longer to be clear of the green doesn't mean they will do it on every hole.

At our course we have a short par 4, par 3, then big dog leg par 4, which some take on then a long walk to the 10th. All these factors means groups often concertina up in this area and if someone loses a ball then you get people waiting and people moaning of slow play. Add the half-way house into the mix and suddenly the 4 hour round is 4.5+

There are simple improvements that can be made, *such as allowing groups behind to play up on par 3's if they are on the tee whilst you are putting* and also when you let a quicker group through, you don't simply stop and let them play, you play up with them to lessen the impact further down the field.

Ultimately as long as I am drifting along keeping up with the group in front though and not being forced to wait for greens to clear etc then I'm happy whether the golf takes 3.5 hours (very rare) or 4.5 hours.
		
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Couple of highlighted points.....

Agree on the first point, the stop/start factor seems to determine if a round is fast or slow. I've played slow competition rounds but kept moving so you don't notice it, only when you walk off the 18th do you realise how long it took.

Don't agree that calling up on par 3's solves anything, it just moves the congestion forward onto the next tee.


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## woody69 (Jul 22, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Couple of highlighted points.....

Agree on the first point, the stop/start factor seems to determine if a round is fast or slow. I've played slow competition rounds but kept moving so you don't notice it, only when you walk off the 18th do you realise how long it took.

Don't agree that calling up on par 3's solves anything, it just moves the congestion forward onto the next tee.
		
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It will speed up the round though. If you arrive at a par 3 and are forced to wait 10 minutes whilst the group in front putts out, then take your shots it will take longer than if you arrive on the tee, get allowed to play up and when you get to the green putt. You're not waiting those 10 minutes for starters so you have saved time there. You may have a bit of a wait at the next tee if the others are still in range for their 2nd shots but the time will be less than simply allowing groups to congregate on a tee. It's been proven on simulations that allowing players to play up to a par 3 speeds up the overall time to play that hole. That's just logical right?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Solution = Education of the best way to go around a course , where a buggy or trolley is parked , when to make your score card , being ready when it's your turn , being willing to play ready golf and having an awareness that there is more than just you on a golf course. 

Also realise when there are quicker groups on the course , if you are losing ground then realise it's your responsibility to make up ground or let others through. 

Slow play is an issue with golf and it's an issue that cause concern and problems with all golfers - its not just trolley or buggy users or seniors or high HC or low HC or ladies or juniors - have witnessed slow play from many people of a variety of age and ability 

Also players trying to rush around a golf course in itself can cause just as many issues
		
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All well and good but so many golfers are stuck in their ways and simply won't change.


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## NorfolkShaun (Jul 22, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			All well and good but so many golfers are stuck in their ways and simply won't change.
		
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Seemed that way today when i was stuck behind a 4 ball of seniors in buggies, 5 holes they watched me walk onto the tee behind them then wait as they went looking for their balls 40 yards off line without once offering to let me through then on the 9th they departed after standing on the green adding up their cards.

What can be done about this kind of behavior, very little i guess just four old people stuck in their ways.......


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## drdel (Jul 22, 2015)

One day, but I fear not for a while we'll realise that the time for a game of Golf depends upon too many factors for there to be a standard time. There is always going to be a wide deviation from the average because of; External factors
weather, time of year, sun position, length of grass (fairways and rough, course difficulty, and Golfers who are people and not Clones. e.g. fitness, eye/hand coordination, age, etc etc.

Then there is the reason a golfer is playing on a particular day, competition, leisure, mild exercise, practise, etc. etc.

Just to add further confusion, the sad fact is, as I said before, Slow and Fast are relative terms so someone's Slow round might be quite brisk for someone else !!

If you want to be quick or get a cardio workout go running or swimming or to the gym and leave us considerate players in peace.

I'm with Slime on this. low handicappers spend ages cause they think they can put like Jordan Speith and drive like Dusting Johnston, end up loosing balls. The there's the old farts like myself who are still pretending.

But hey its always a subject for a good argument - but there ain't a real answer.


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## Grant85 (Jul 22, 2015)

For a sport that sees players disqualified from tournaments, and losing potentially millions in prize money, for a minor infraction where clearly no advantage was gained the game has no one to blame but itself for the current situation. 

The rules are written down and where a time limit is breached, even by a second, a 1 stroke penalty should be applied immediately.

This would solve the problem over night. Allow caddies to use GPS devices to save time on yardages & all of a sudden we'd be watching pros get round most events in 3 hours.

this would filter down to the amature game and all of a sudden 18 handicappers would not be taking 90 seconds to line up 10 foot putts.


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## Grant85 (Jul 22, 2015)

Also, I guess moving to a culture of 'ready golf' wouldn't be a bad idea. 

But it this would have to be promoted by clubs, and would speed things up noticeably.


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## Hobbit (Jul 22, 2015)

Grant85 said:



			Also, I guess moving to a culture of 'ready golf' wouldn't be a bad idea. 

But it this would have to be promoted by clubs, and would speed things up noticeably.
		
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But applying ready golf only masks the symptom, it doesn't cure it.


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## Imurg (Jul 23, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I liked that the card for the local assistant pro comp held yesterday at my place had a time on the card against each hole by which the player had to complete the hole.  So the 12:57pm start time group had on their card that the 1st had to be completed by 13:14pm and so on - with the 18th to be completed by 17:22pm
		
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Which is, fundamentally, OK until you take factors such as being held up by the group in front, losing balls etc etc...
You have to know why a round has taken "too long" - simply spending 5 minutes looking for a ball on 9 holes adds 45 minutes to a round.
The number of times, during a round, that using a trolley leads to an extra few seconds probably adds up to less than a couple of minutes - no proof but its not as big a deal as some are making out.
Whilst not condoning slow play - believe me, I hate it as much as anyone - Golf takes time, it just does. There are few courses where you can get round in less than 3 hours as a 3 ball, many will take 4 or more. I played solo last evening, took me 2 hours - I doubt it could be done much quicker. If a round today takes 3 hours 30 but tomorrow it takes 4 hours 10 - is it really thatbig a thing? 40 minutes.2 and a bit minutes a hole........
Slow play is a pain though and those playing slowly should let faster groups through. But many are oblivious to what's going on around them - in life as well as on the course.! Some people seem to think that letting a group through is an account to their Manhood
Education is the only way to speed things up, either through seminars at clubs or Marshalls on the course. 
If the round is flowing, does it really matter if it takes 3 hours 30 or 4 hours..?


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## Smiffy (Jul 23, 2015)

I used to run a large society and was obviously fully aware of the problems of slow play. Had enough people moan at me about it over the years.
At the start of every meeting I used to beg and plead with players to keep the pace of play up, and always asked them to pick their ball up if they couldn't score on a hole.
I even used to get the scorecards in advance, and write it along the top of each one, highlighting it with a bright yellow highlighting pen!!
I lost count of the number of cards I used to check after games with 10's (or worse) marked against holes. 
Which part of "pick up if you can't score" did the thickos concerned not understand????????
And the over riding response I got if I questioned it???
"I've paid my green fee, I want to play all of my shots"
And they were the people either moaning about slow play, or denying that they themselves were slow.
I gave up in the end.

Just a tip...
Gentlemen.....if you are playing in a Stableford competition and you cannot score on a hole, please pick up and assist your playing partners in completing the hole.
You will be amazed at how much quicker you will get round.
Trust me.
I'm never wrong


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## NorfolkShaun (Jul 23, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Just a tip...
Gentlemen.....if you are playing in a Stableford competition and you cannot score on a hole, please pick up and assist your playing partners in completing the hole.
You will be amazed at how much quicker you will get round.
Trust me.
I'm never wrong
		
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I would add to this when you have already used 25 shots on the 12th hole in a medal and your getting .1 there is very little point still hitting a provisional each time you may of lost your ball. Just N/R and give others a chance....


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## chellie (Jul 23, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			I would add to this when you have already used 25 shots on the 12th hole in a medal and your getting .1 there is very little point still hitting a provisional each time you may of lost your ball. Just N/R and give others a chance....
		
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Do men actually do that........


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## Smiffy (Jul 23, 2015)

chellie said:



			Do men actually do that........
		
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Some do.
I've seen them hit 5 off the tee on a par 5 where they're not shotting before.
I expect some women do as well


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## chellie (Jul 23, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Some do.
I've seen them hit 5 off the tee on a par 5 where they're not shotting before.
I expect some women do as well


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Don't think any of them do at ours as we'd probably be lined up and shot


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## Slab (Jul 23, 2015)

Would like to think all clubs have used something like this from the USGA


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 23, 2015)

quick question.  When did folks start marking a putting alignment line on their ball? 

From back then (25yrs ago) I just don't recall players doing that and then fiddling about getting their ball alignment line perfectly as they want it on every putt.  Maybe players have always done this - but I certainly notice it more and more these days

And some players are obsessive about it.  Decide their line; meticulously getting their ball 'lined up'; standing up; changing their mind on the line or deciding ball isn't 'quite right' so going back to ball etc.  Because once they get into the habit then I can see it would be off putting for the player if the line wasn't *exactly *as they want it.

It's just another of these things that I really think we just don't need to do - useful in practice but taking onto the course as some do...just a pain and another contributor to slow play

When I putt I don't bother at all with aligning any aspect of the ball with my line of putt.  I just stick the ball down as it comes out of my hand.  And that's it.  Nothing to worry about other than the putt.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 23, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			quick question.  When did folks start marking a putting alignment line on their ball? 

From back then (25yrs ago) I just don't recall players doing that and then fiddling about getting their ball alignment line perfectly as they want it on every putt.  Maybe players have always done this - but I certainly notice it more and more these days

And some players are obsessive about it.  Decide their line; meticulously getting their ball 'lined up'; standing up; changing their mind on the line or deciding ball isn't 'quite right' so going back to ball etc.  Because once they get into the habit then I can see it would be off putting for the player if the line wasn't *exactly *as they want it.

It's just another of these things that I really think we just don't need to do - useful in practice but taking onto the course as some do...just a pain and another contributor to slow play

When I putt I don't bother at all with aligning any aspect of the ball with my line of putt.  I just stick the ball down as it comes out of my hand.  And that's it.  Nothing to worry about other than the putt.
		
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This is me as I do struggle slightly with alignment of putts.
However I am faster at other things so I feel I deserve the time to line up my putts.


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## Rooter (Jul 23, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			This is me as I do struggle slightly with alignment of putts.
However I am faster at other things so I feel I deserve the time to line up my putts.
		
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me too, i have an eye dominance, so when i stand over a putt even if i have lined it up from behind, it looks wrong to me. I have to trust the alignment mark or i miss. It does not slow up play though!! well not for me anyway!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm just thinking it's a relatively recent development that has been adopted by loads of players - though I'm sure someone will tell me it was commonplace 25yrs.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 23, 2015)

I think we all need to look at our own play honestly, and recognise and accept where by our actions and play we could contribute to slow rounds.  If we examine our play for simply the most obvious causes of slow play - all well known and laid out here - we may well conclude that we do not contribute to slow rounds because we are not guilty of any of these obvious faults.  

But I suggest that every one of us does something that in certain combinations and with others could well be a factor.  Mine is that I use my putting routine for all putts - including 18"ers.  Now that will be seen by some of my PPs as being unnecessary and a contributor to slow play - so I must accept that and I must be mindful of it if my group is slow - and ask myself honestly - what part am I playing in the slow pace of play?

Matthew 7:3-5

_Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brotherâ€™s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, â€˜Let me take the speck out of your eye,â€™ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brotherâ€™s eye._


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## User62651 (Jul 23, 2015)

Carrying is horrible and ruins your clothes and your back and even if you took 30 seconds longer per hole that's only 9 minutes per round so isn't the solution.
Too much fuss over nothing, if you don't want to take as long play fewer holes or get yourself out early in the draw or find another interest that takes an hour or two. Nobody goes out in comps thinking I'm going to go as slow as I can, they go at the pace they can. Just needs good manners to let faster groups through...end of.
If a good player needs to pace out a yardage or look at a putt from different sides in order to keep to a low handicap or an older players is having trouble in the rough then so be it, that process takes time and that's part of the game. The course is a big factor in terms of length and difficulty in determining how long a game takes.
Got asked to speed up at Carnoustie by a marshall, yet we had players in front and behind and couldn't go any faster even if we wanted - had never played the course so unfamiliarity adds time and it was quite annoying having some busybody rush you through when you've come a long way and paid a lot of money. Marshalls are not required at club level. 10 minute tee times is a good idea. Maybe 9 hole comps for busier people should be introduced.
When I'm retired, if I'm spared, I like the idea of leisurely 4ball rounds taking all morning with no rush. The old boys (and girls) have earned it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 23, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			Carrying is horrible and ruins your clothes and your back and even if you took 30 seconds longer per hole that's only 9 minutes per round so isn't the solution.
Too much fuss over nothing, if you don't want to take as long play fewer holes or get yourself out early in the draw or find another interest that takes an hour or two. *Nobody goes out in comps thinking I'm going to go as slow as I can,* they go at the pace they can. Just needs good manners to let faster groups through...end of.
If a good player needs to pace out a yardage or look at a putt from different sides in order to keep to a low handicap or an older players is having trouble in the rough then so be it, that process takes time and that's part of the game. The course is a big factor in terms of length and difficulty in determining how long a game takes.
Got asked to speed up at Carnoustie by a marshall, yet we had players in front and behind and couldn't go any faster even if we wanted - had never played the course so unfamiliarity adds time and it was quite annoying having some busybody rush you through when you've come a long way and paid a lot of money. Marshalls are not required at club level. 10 minute tee times is a good idea. Maybe 9 hole comps for busier people should be introduced.
When I'm retired, if I'm spared, I like the idea of leisurely 4ball rounds taking all morning with no rush. The old boys (and girls) have earned it.
		
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BiB - I wouldn't be so sure of that.  Besides I bet there are plenty who decide they'll go as slow as they want to suit themselves - not being that bothered in the slightest really, about the impact their speed of play will have on others.  Just selfish really.


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