# So wearing a Poppy is Political !



## drdel (Nov 2, 2016)

So FIFA has decided Poppy Day is a political statement so England footballers must not wear them.


Worlds gone made with pseudo PC views.


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## SteveJay (Nov 2, 2016)

Hope the 2 Football Associations tell FIFA to get stuffed and wear them anyway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2016)

Always wear a Poppy with Pride, however it was political back in the 30's (White Poppy), it's nothing new, FIFA's decision will hopefully have a positive backlash for the Poppy Appeal and it gives most of us one more reason to despise them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2016)

Look on the positive side. Great publicity for the Poppy appeal. Brings them to the forefront of the news. They'll secretly be quite happy about this.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2016)

Yes in the eyes of FIFA but they are totally wrong.


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## Stuart_C (Nov 2, 2016)

It's only been the last 5 years  or so that teams have started wearing poppies on shirts  in fairness. 

I wonder what  the people who had agreed to play this match on  remeberance day  are thinking? If it meant as much to the FA as they're making it out to be why play the game.

If no footballer had a poppy on their shirt nobody would care.  I think it boils down to clubs and the FA using it as a PR stunt imo.


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## brendy (Nov 2, 2016)

Rather than go through this rigmarole couldnt they just have ran poppies on the advertising hoardings and around the grounds jnstead, you dont have to wear a poppy to back it.


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## lobthewedge (Nov 2, 2016)

FIFA again shows itself as a truly disgusting organisation, to hell with them!


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 3, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			It's only been the last 5 years  or so that teams have started wearing poppies on shirts  in fairness. 

I wonder what  the people who had agreed to play this match on  remeberance day  are thinking? If it meant as much to the FA as they're making it out to be why play the game.

If no footballer had a poppy on their shirt nobody would care.  I think it boils down to clubs and the FA using it as a PR stunt imo.
		
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At last some sense, disgraceful decision by both English and Scottish FA's to play this game on 11th Nov.
They should hang their heads in shame.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At last some sense, disgraceful decision by both English and Scottish FA's to play this game on 11th Nov.
They should hang their heads in shame.
		
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On what planet is it a disgraceful decision ?!

The world doesn't need to stop on that day


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			On what planet is it a disgraceful decision ?!

The world doesn't need to stop on that day
		
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Ignore it Phil, Teams wear Poppies on their shirts during their last home game leading up to Remembrance Sunday, playing Scotland or anyone on any day between 1st-13th Nov the FA would've wanted to have the Poppy on the shirt.
Some people are cynical and take for granted some of the freedoms they enjoy.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 3, 2016)

Glad to see Theresa May sticking the boot into FIFA at PMQ's yesterday


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 3, 2016)

So FIFA don't allow anything other than club/country/sponsorship logo's on the shirts, so surely best way to solve the issue would be to have the poppy on the shorts. The poppy is still on display and doesn't become the subject kickabout its quickly become. The FA's could also put a large poppy picture on every seat in th stadium, then during the anthems and silence the crowds could raise their poppy card creating a field of poppies.
I fully understand and agree with its display and use, but there must be a dignity that is maintained in any discussion on it or anything to do with the show of a poppy.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 3, 2016)

Re # 10........I think you will find that there are many places in the world will stop for a few minutes that day.


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## IanM (Nov 3, 2016)

I am shocked *and delighted *that the FA and SFA have told the sleazebags at FIFA to "naff off!"  Bet we get a fine... they just love cash at FIFA! 

Normally the FA just roll over........ the PM also told them to get their own house in order.


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## User62651 (Nov 3, 2016)

It is political, world war one was political, if FIFA have said they don't want political badges or slogans of any kind on international teams shirts than should we not stick by those rules? If FIFA dont object it does set a precedent, opens the doors for other current or historical political issues to be worn on shirts by any other member country of FIFA. The UK needs to realise it is not more important than everyone else and if you're part of a 200 or whatever country governing body you tow the line. I lost 2 great uncles in WW1 so I'm as affected by and respectful of remembrance day as anyone else but not sure this furore is really needed.
Remember a couple or three years ago the unfair pressure put on James Maclean to go against his will and wear a poppy on his Sunderland shirt, cost him his job there ultimately but he stood by his principles of seeing the poppy as representation of the British Military and their in his view oppression in Ireland, be that right or wrong those were his beliefs - that shows the poppy is a political statment for many imo.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 3, 2016)

Unfortunately FIFA made a rod for it's own back by allowing England to wear armbands v Spain a few years back, reading reports this morning it appears both FA's approached FIFA requesting Poppies be allowed on the shirts and had expected to be told no, but you can wear armbands.
The point blank refusal for either is what's caused the fuss.
I totally understand it being viewed as a political symbol.


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## bluewolf (Nov 3, 2016)

Ok, so I've been having a think about this.. There are a couple of things that don't really sit right..

 One of the things that bothers me is that it appears the players are not really getting a full say in the matter.. Having the Poppy stitched into the shirt puts real pressure onto anyone who would prefer not to display it.. It forces them to make a decision. They have to actively decide not to wear the shirt. Having witnessed the vile abuse that James Maclean had to endure when at Latics from opposing fans then it wouldn't surprise me if a player chose to wear the Poppy just to avoid being targeted by small minded morons..

 Secondly, when the players are on international duty, they are effectively representing the entire Country. There are a sizable minority of people who choose not to wear the Poppy in this Country, including some ex Service Men (and they are perfectly entitled to do so).. This means that the players are not actually representing the entire Country.. Feels wrong...

  As has been said before. Put signs on seats and let the fans decide whether they want to hold them up.. Let the Pundits wear them if they wish. The players can wear them to and from the game.. Keep it as a personal decision..


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## Crazyface (Nov 3, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Glad to see Theresa May sticking the boot into FIFA at PMQ's yesterday
		
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And she did what exactly? Words mean NOTHING.


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## bluewolf (Nov 3, 2016)

Crazyface said:



			And she did what exactly? Words mean NOTHING.
		
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What did you want her to do? Fly over to Switzerland and kick Gianni Infantino in the balls? It's hard to make the point that the Poppy isn't political when you've got Parliament discussing it all day...


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## garyinderry (Nov 3, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			It is political, world war one was political, if FIFA have said they don't want political badges or slogans of any kind on international teams shirts than should we not stick by those rules? If FIFA dont object it does set a precedent, opens the doors for other current or historical political issues to be worn on shirts by any other member country of FIFA. The UK needs to realise it is not more important than everyone else and if you're part of a 200 or whatever country governing body you tow the line.
		
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This sums it up well for me.


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## Sweep (Nov 4, 2016)

When a leading figure in football dies and everyone pauses before the game for a minutes silence, is it political?
No.
So why is wearing the poppy political?
They are both acts of remembrance.


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## Val (Nov 4, 2016)

Poppies aren't political but they should be optional. Footballers, TV presenters etc all appear to be forced to wear them and I believe this is wrong.

I wear one only on Remembrance Sunday at my local parade and also on armistice day itself.


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## backwoodsman (Nov 4, 2016)

Ah, the tyranny of the poppy rises again.

My own, entirely non statistical, observation is that the majority of people don't wear poppies. As i go about normal life, either in the run up to Remembrance Sunday, or on the day, l don't  see that many people wearing them. That is their choice.  And the proportion of people who choose to wear or not wear I'd expect to be broadly representative. 

So put any bunch of people in a uniform, and chances are that a majority of them would not choose to wear a poppy. Ergo putting a poppy on the uniform is wrong. It is wrong to take away the voluntary choice to wear the symbol of the poppy, and by doing so it demeans the value of the poppy itself. A poppy worn by eiher requirement or through indifference has no meaning. Poppies should not be on uniforms - and a football strip is no less a uniform. 

The FA and SFA are wrong to want it on a strip.


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## Sweep (Nov 4, 2016)

backwoodsman said:



			Ah, the tyranny of the poppy rises again.

My own, entirely non statistical, observation is that the majority of people don't wear poppies. As i go about normal life, either in the run up to Remembrance Sunday, or on the day, l don't  see that many people wearing them. That is their choice.  And the proportion of people who choose to wear or not wear I'd expect to be broadly representative. 

So put any bunch of people in a uniform, and chances are that a majority of them would not choose to wear a poppy. Ergo putting a poppy on the uniform is wrong. It is wrong to take away the voluntary choice to wear the symbol of the poppy, and by doing so it demeans the value of the poppy itself. A poppy worn by eiher requirement or through indifference has no meaning. Poppies should not be on uniforms - and a football strip is no less a uniform. 

The FA and SFA are wrong to want it on a strip.
		
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Unless the player has the option?
I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.
For the life of me I can't see why anyone would object to wearing a poppy


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## Crazyface (Nov 4, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			What did you want her to do? Fly over to Switzerland and kick Gianni Infantino in the balls? It's hard to make the point that the Poppy isn't political when you've got Parliament discussing it all day...
		
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She should have said that it was nothing to do with FIFA or anyone else what we wear on our shirts. If we want to do it then we damn well shall. Who cares if they deduct points? We'll get there anyway. If they fine us we'll refuse to play. Again who cares. England couldn't win at playing for England.


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## bluewolf (Nov 4, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Unless the player has the option?
I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.
For the life of me I can't see why anyone would object to wearing a poppy
		
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Why is James Maclean playing in England an issue at all? You're sailing dangerously close to claiming that the wearing of the Poppy should be mandatory.


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## Val (Nov 4, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			Why is James Maclean playing in England an issue at all? You're sailing dangerously close to claiming that the wearing of the Poppy should be mandatory.
		
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James McLean should be free to choose whether he wears one or not, the same with any footballer from any nation playing in the UK.


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## bluewolf (Nov 4, 2016)

Val said:



			James McLean should be free to choose whether he wears one or not, the same with any footballer from any nation playing in the UK.
		
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Exactly right mate. I'm beginning to worry that the Poppy will be turned into such a divisive symbol that it will lose its potency.


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## Val (Nov 4, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			Exactly right mate. I'm beginning to worry that the Poppy will be turned into such a divisive symbol that it will lose its potency.
		
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100% agree Dan. The last 5-10 years or so have become ridiculous with the wearing or non wearing of the poppy. It's all well supporting the fallen etc and what they did for us in terms of how we live and what the did to ensure we had FREE SPEECH seems to be forgotten at some points. 

Some football clubs put on a tremendous show of support for the forces (thinking Rangers) but it is getting to the stage many use this as a point scoring exercise with their rivals who support the poppy appeal privately due to an idiot element of their support (Celtic). This is all wrong and is not what the poppy appeal is about at all but I can't help but feel football associations have helped create this.

Im not anti poppy wearing, far from it. I'll be in the minority on the forum in that I attend a service and parade on Remeberence Sunday but I believe everyone should have the choice and it shouldn't be forced. I wouldn't be surrprised if all TV presenters have it put on them whether they like it or not.


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## bluewolf (Nov 4, 2016)

Val said:



			100% agree Dan. The last 5-10 years or so have become ridiculous with the wearing or non wearing of the poppy. It's all well supporting the fallen etc and what they did for us in terms of how we live and what the did to ensure we had FREE SPEECH seems to be forgotten at some points. 

Some football clubs put on a tremendous show of support for the forces (thinking Rangers) but it is getting to the stage many use this as a point scoring exercise with their rivals who support the poppy appeal privately due to an idiot element of their support (Celtic). This is all wrong and is not what the poppy appeal is about at all but I can't help but feel football associations have helped create this.

Im not anti poppy wearing, far from it. I'll be in the minority on the forum in that I attend a service and parade on Remeberence Sunday but I believe everyone should have the choice and it shouldn't be forced. I wouldn't be surrprised if all TV presenters have it put on them whether they like it or not.
		
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I'll be at the Village memorial mate. I lost an old school friend in Iraq, as well as several relatives in WW1 & 2. I usually skip the Church service as I'm not a believer, but I will always remember and be grateful. I don't need a poppy to do that, but it's a nice way to show that we appreciate the sacrifice. However, the second that the Poppy becomes a method of distinguishing just how "British" we think people are then I'll stop wearing one and I'll just carry on remembering in my own way. If that's a problem to some then they can feel free to explain that to my face.


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## backwoodsman (Nov 4, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Unless the player has the option?
I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.
For the life of me I can't see why anyone would object to wearing a poppy
		
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Ah but, it is not a question of whether they object to wearing it. Poppies are all about making a deliberate choice to wear one - not about "not objecting" That's just plain indifference, which renders the wearing meaningless.  And the principle about whether it should be on a uniform or a piece of kit is that it is wrong to put someone in the position of having to make a public choice. No one should be in the position of having to publicly display a private opinion just because they are performing a particular task of some kind. Making someone in the public eye choose, automatically renders their choice public.

And in any case - is football strip an appropriate place for a poppy? After all, for the 90 minutes its worn, not one of the 22 players will be giving the slightest hoot about remembrance.


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## Sweep (Nov 4, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			Why is James Maclean playing in England an issue at all? You're sailing dangerously close to claiming that the wearing of the Poppy should be mandatory.
		
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Where did I say wearing a poppy should be mandatory? I said the exact opposite. I said I would not have thought anyone would object, except McLean for well documented reasons.


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## bluewolf (Nov 4, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Where did I say wearing a poppy should be mandatory? I said the exact opposite. I said I would not have thought anyone would object, except McLean for well documented reasons.
		
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Your reply certainly hinted at an issue with Maclean's decision.


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## Sweep (Nov 4, 2016)

backwoodsman said:



			Ah but, it is not a question of whether they object to wearing it. Poppies are all about making a deliberate choice to wear one - not about "not objecting" That's just plain indifference, which renders the wearing meaningless.  And the principle about whether it should be on a uniform or a piece of kit is that it is wrong to put someone in the position of having to make a public choice. No one should be in the position of having to publicly display a private opinion just because they are performing a particular task of some kind. Making someone in the public eye choose, automatically renders their choice public.

And in any case - is football strip an appropriate place for a poppy? After all, for the 90 minutes its worn, not one of the 22 players will be giving the slightest hoot about remembrance.
		
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Well they should give a hoot. TBH this entire row shows up the sport for how trivial it is. Football is a game. War, death and sacrifice are entirely different.
If shirts are made available both with and without poppies the players can choose. I don't care if a player chooses not to wear a poppy but yes, I would respect them less. 
Its a tiny, tiny show of respect for those who died for us. The players are playing for England - not fighting for England - but they are representing us nonetheless.
its simply an act of remembrance, Lest We Forget. Is it really too much to ask?


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## Sweep (Nov 4, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			Your reply certainly hinted at an issue with Maclean's decision.
		
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Then your interpretation is wrong. Perhaps you should read my reply again.


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## Val (Nov 4, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Then your interpretation is wrong. Perhaps you should read my reply again.
		
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You hinted it was another issue McLean being happy to take the leagues money. In reality he takes the club who are happy to have him as an employees money.


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## bluewolf (Nov 4, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Then your interpretation is wrong. Perhaps you should read my reply again.
		
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Sweep said:



			I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.
		
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So it's a different issue, but it's not an issue. I may not be the brightest bulb in the ceiling, but I'm struggling to see where I've misinterpreted your comment.


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## NWJocko (Nov 4, 2016)

The whole situation now is very unsavoury imo for what is supposed to be a meaningful symbol of rememberance.  If the poppy wasn't a political symbol previously it is very quickly turning into one with all the bickering which does nobody any credit.

The football teams could exchange poppy wreaths before the match if they are so keen to enagage in a public act of rememberance (only an example). Sign and auction the shirts as before, hell the players could donate their match fee (or a days salary) to the RBL if it means so much to them or the FA's.

As others have said, we are in danger of reaching the point where anyone not wearing a poppy for a couple of weeks whatever they are doing is frowned upon, people shouldn't have to wear one just be seen to be wearing one as it diminishes the meaning IMO.


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## backwoodsman (Nov 4, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Well they should give a hoot. TBH this entire row shows up the sport for how trivial it is. Football is a game. War, death and sacrifice are entirely different.
If shirts are made available both with and without poppies the players can choose. I don't care if a player chooses not to wear a poppy but yes, I would respect them less. 
Its a tiny, tiny show of respect for those who died for us. The players are playing for England - not fighting for England - but they are representing us nonetheless.
its simply an act of remembrance, Lest We Forget. Is it really too much to ask?
		
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I expect many of them *will* give a hoot before the match and after. But during the 90 minutes of the game they won't give it the slightest thought. Nor would you I expect..

But I fear you miss my point. Choosing whether or not to wear a poppy is an entirely  voluntary choice. As soon as you are made to choose by a third party, then it is no longer a voluntary choice and you take away the persons right to keep their own view to themselves.. I wear mine when and where of my own choosing - but if and when someone tells me I _should _be wearing one then they are merely imposing their morals on me - and I'm likely to tell them where to stick theirs.

That's me out now ...


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 4, 2016)

No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong 

For me it will always be about remembering those people  a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present. 

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example - I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - try and see passed all the political nonsense and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy


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## bluewolf (Nov 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong 

For me it will always be about remembering those people  a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present. 

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example - I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - try and see passed all the political nonsense and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy
		
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 Good post mate. I agree. We may disagree on whether the Poppy should be in the shirt but we agree on everything else.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong 

For me it will always be about remembering those people  a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present. 

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example - I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - try and see passed all the political nonsense and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy
		
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Sorry Phil, McCleans reasons are Political nothing more, he wasn't born when Bloody Sunday happened, it's a stance against the British Government.
Whether he is right or wrong is down to each and everyone one of us to decide, but you can't ignore the fact that the Poppy has been and always will be seen as a political symbol by some, you and I may not see it as a political symbol, but that doesn't make the others wrong.


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## bluewolf (Nov 4, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry Phil, McCleans reasons are Political nothing more, he wasn't born when Bloody Sunday happened, it's a stance against the British Government.
Whether he is right or wrong is down to each and everyone one of us to decide, but you can't ignore the fact that the Poppy has been and always will be seen as a political symbol by some, you and I may not see it as a political symbol, but that doesn't make the others wrong.
		
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I'm not sure Paul mate, but I think you're agreeing with Phil here..


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			I'm not sure Paul mate, but I think you're agreeing with Phil here..
		
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I only disagree with him about what the Poppy means, and no matter how many times it's repeated what it means to the RBL and others, to some it is a Political Symbol and will never be seen as anything else.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 5, 2016)

Saw this posted on the football forum im a member of.. ]

"It's a fad that started a few years ago. England played Sweden on November 10th in 2001 with no poppy or armband and zero ****'s were given by anyone.

The idea it is part of our "football history" is nonsense."


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2016)

pauljames87 said:



			Saw this posted on the football forum im a member of.. ]

"It's a fad that started a few years ago. England played Sweden on November 10th in 2001 with no poppy or armband and zero ****'s were given by anyone.

The idea it is part of our "football history" is nonsense."




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Nobody said it was part of our Football History and nobody who is aware of Football History would claim it is.
Premier League teams only started wearing them in 2010.

Not really sure what it has to do whether wearing the Poppy is political?


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 5, 2016)

On the 25th of December 1914, the British & German armies managed to stop slaughtering each other for long enough to play a game of football and share a beer.

On the 11th of November 2016, 100 years after the Battle of the Somme, England and Scotland will play each other and wish to wear poppies as a mark of respect to the dead.  

FIFA, an organisation that appears to have been remarkably short on morals and scruples over the years has threatened both teams with sanctions if they carry out this act of remembrance & respect because it is allegedly in breach of their rules; a rule they have previously allowed an exception to for the same thing.  

Have we not come very far in 102 years or have we left the decision to the wrong people?  I don't have a lot of time for the FA but they are absolutely right to ignore FIFA on this one in my opinion.


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## Sweep (Nov 5, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			So it's a different issue, but it's not an issue. I may not be the brightest bulb in the ceiling, but I'm struggling to see where I've misinterpreted your comment.
		
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Maybe it's because you conveniently missed off the first line of my post:
"Unless the player has an option?"
sorry if this doesn't fit your narrative


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## Sweep (Nov 5, 2016)

backwoodsman said:



			I expect many of them *will* give a hoot before the match and after. But during the 90 minutes of the game they won't give it the slightest thought. Nor would you I expect..

But I fear you miss my point. Choosing whether or not to wear a poppy is an entirely  voluntary choice. As soon as you are made to choose by a third party, then it is no longer a voluntary choice and you take away the persons right to keep their own view to themselves.. I wear mine when and where of my own choosing - but if and when someone tells me I _should _be wearing one then they are merely imposing their morals on me - and I'm likely to tell them where to stick theirs.

That's me out now ...
		
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I don't miss your point and I entirely agree


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## Sweep (Nov 5, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			On the 25th of December 1914, the British & German armies managed to stop slaughtering each other for long enough to play a game of football and share a beer.

On the 11th of November 2016, 100 years after the Battle of the Somme, England and Scotland will play each other and wish to wear poppies as a mark of respect to the dead.  

FIFA, an organisation that appears to have been remarkably short on morals and scruples over the years has threatened both teams with sanctions if they carry out this act of remembrance & respect because it is allegedly in breach of their rules; a rule they have previously allowed an exception to for the same thing.  

Have we not come very far in 102 years or have we left the decision to the wrong people?  I don't have a lot of time for the FA but they are absolutely right to ignore FIFA on this one in my opinion.
		
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Great post!


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## SocketRocket (Nov 5, 2016)

Is the Poppy Political?  I guess it depends on what you perceive it to represent. If it represents the men and women of this nation that lost their lives or were disabled while serving in wars then their service was heroic and we should remember, honor and where surviving support them.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2016)

It is heroic to many but not to the people they fought against. Not heroic to plenty in the Middle East where we have been interfering for the last 15+ years. Soldiers don't choose to go there but they do and many innocents have died. The money from poppy sales go to help soldiers who have fought, it is not just about remembering. Failing to see how this could offend some people in other countries who have been affected by our interference is totally blind and naive. Poppies are for us, we can't expect the rest of the world to agree.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is heroic to many but not to the people they fought against. Not heroic to plenty in the Middle East where we have been interfering for the last 15+ years. Soldiers don't choose to go there but they do and many innocents have died. The money from poppy sales go to help soldiers who have fought, it is not just about remembering. Failing to see how this could offend some people in other countries who have been affected by our interference is totally blind and naive. Poppies are for us, we can't expect the rest of the world to agree.
		
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When has anyone expected the rest of the world to agree ? Not one single person has mentioned anyone in the rest of the world to wear or poppy 

The poppy is about the First World War and the people they fought against also remember those days and the actions of many 

Money goes to people who put their lives on the line many years ago and now maybe struggling because the government that sent them there don't support them. 

If people don't want to wear a poppy or support or remember because of recent events in the Middle East then point the finger at governments not the boots on the ground who are just doing their job to try and make it a safer place for you and i


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## guest100718 (Nov 6, 2016)

To some they are very much a political symbol and certainly in the last few years the wearing or not has become stick for the pro offended to beat people with.  Not content with harranging TV presenters etc for not wesaring one, they come out with  nonsene about the leaf having to be at 11 o clock.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2016)

The moment you want to put poppies on a shirt of a FIFA qualifying match when they expressly state it is against their rules is when you are expecting world approval. FIFA rules are set by all countries and they state the Poppy is a political symbol. Poppies and soldiers go together, that is the point of them, and you can't expect other countries to agree to a symbol that backs our military personnel. The floodgates then open to a whole host of controversies.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When has anyone expected the rest of the world to agree ? Not one single person has mentioned anyone in the rest of the world to wear or poppy 

The poppy is about the First World War and the people they fought against also remember those days and the actions of many 

Money goes to people who put their lives on the line many years ago and now maybe struggling because the government that sent them there don't support them. 

If people don't want to wear a poppy or support or remember because of recent events in the Middle East then point the finger at governments not the boots on the ground who are just doing their job to try and make it a safer place for you and i
		
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I don't think there are there any WWI soldiers still alive ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The moment you want to put poppies on a shirt of a FIFA qualifying match when they expressly state it is against their rules is when you are expecting world approval. FIFA rules are set by all countries and they state the Poppy is a political symbol. Poppies and soldiers go together, that is the point of them, and you can't expect other countries to agree to a symbol that backs our military personnel. The floodgates then open to a whole host of controversies.
		
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FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol

The FA clearly state it's a symbol of remembrance and that's why the players will wear a poppy - to remember not to make any political statement ( like you saw with Argentina and their Falklands flag ). 

FIFA have made a decision about something that is actually nothing to do with them in regards the meaning of the poppy - the people that organise the Poppy Appeal and the people who started the Poppy rememberance all clearly state it is not a political statement - since when did FIFA believe they have the authority to change the meaning of the Poppy. 

When FIFA sort out their own morals and corruption then they can start to think about making judgements about others 

When they fine the FA and Scottish FA i hope both FA refuse and take it to court then they can attempt to prove it's a political statement. 

The poppy is nothing to do with FIFA or indeed any other country that doesn't wish to use it as asked symbol of remembrance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol

The FA clearly state it's a symbol of remembrance and that's why the players will wear a poppy - to remember not to make any political statement ( like you saw with Argentina and their Falklands flag ). 

FIFA have made a decision about something that is actually nothing to do with them in regards the meaning of the poppy - the people that organise the Poppy Appeal and the people who started the Poppy rememberance all clearly state it is not a political statement - since when did FIFA believe they have the authority to change the meaning of the Poppy. 

When FIFA sort out their own morals and corruption then they can start to think about making judgements about others 

When they fine the FA and Scottish FA i hope both FA refuse and take it to court then they can attempt to prove it's a political statement. 

The poppy is nothing to do with FIFA or indeed any other country that doesn't wish to use it as asked symbol of remembrance.
		
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You really can't be serious to dismiss how it's seen by others, 
Why then do you defend people's rights not to wear one when their motive is purely political?


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## Imurg (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol
.
		
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And that is the crux of the whole argument.
How you, me, The Queen, RBL, the bloke down the street or his Aunt view it isn't the issue.
It's how other Nations/religions view it.
Others, whether we like it or not, view it as a Political symbol.
Can't you see that..?
If FIFA, rightly or wrongly, have deemed it Political then to display a poppy on a football kit breaches their rules - rules we have signed up to by being a member .
And as has been said, during the game I want the English players to be concentrating on beating Scotland, not remembering the fallen. There's times and places for that and in the middle of a football match isn't one of them. Plenty of time before and after.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol

The FA clearly state it's a symbol of remembrance and that's why the players will wear a poppy - to remember not to make any political statement ( like you saw with Argentina and their Falklands flag ). 

FIFA have made a decision about something that is actually nothing to do with them in regards the meaning of the poppy - the people that organise the Poppy Appeal and the people who started the Poppy rememberance all clearly state it is not a political statement - since when did FIFA believe they have the authority to change the meaning of the Poppy. 

*When FIFA sort out their own morals and corruption then they can start to think about making judgements about others 

When they fine the FA and Scottish FA i hope both FA refuse and take it to court then they can attempt to prove it's a political statement. 
*
The poppy is nothing to do with FIFA or indeed any other country that doesn't wish to use it as asked symbol of remembrance.
		
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Isnt membership to FIFA effectively by invitation and strictly governed that government or outside interference is forbidden. I'd imagine an attempt to sue FIFA would just have us banned from FIFA endorsed tournaments. And that would cost us more money than FIFA. 

Whether people believe it political or not. FIFA have deemed it so, as a governing body you have to accept it. Irrespective of their previous misdemeanours (bribes etc). Going against them and saying, well you do this or that her won't help. As everyone's mum always said. Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			You really can't be serious to dismiss how it's seen by others, 
Why then do you defend people's rights not to wear one when their motive is purely political?
		
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James McClean is freely allowed to not wear a poppy -not problems with that , I don't agree with his reasons why but he shouldn't ever be forced to wear one. 

Just as no one should ever stop someone from wearing one when it's being worn for the right reasons - if any sports team wants to wear it to remember then they should be freely be able to wear it regardless of what anything thinks it means - for them it's remembrance of those fallen people and their sacrifice. 

Everyone should have free will to wear one or not wear one - if someone wears one for rememberance then no one should judge or decide any different.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			James McClean is freely allowed to not wear a poppy -not problems with that , I don't agree with his reasons why but he shouldn't ever be forced to wear one. 

Just as no one should ever stop someone from wearing one when it's being worn for the right reasons - if any sports team wants to wear it to remember then they should be freely be able to wear it regardless of what anything thinks it means - for them it's remembrance of those fallen people and their sacrifice. 

Everyone should have free will to wear one or not wear one - if someone wears one for rememberance then no one should judge or decide any different.
		
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Answer the question! I don't give a sh!te who does or does not wear a Poppy, was stood in the shops last week selling them and I'll be stood this week, people ignore you and people chat, if someone then told me they won't buy one because they are against the Government they ARE seeing it as a Political symbol, what McClean does or doesn't do is up to him, but his reasons in YOUR opinion is wrong, because he sees it as a Political symbol and you keep saying it's not!
You're judging FIFA saying it's a Political symbol, I don't care how they view it, they've set a precedent and can't change their minds.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Answer the question! I don't give a sh!te who does or does not wear a Poppy, was stood in the shops last week selling them and I'll be stood this week, people ignore you and people chat, if someone then told me they won't buy one because they are against the Government they ARE seeing it as a Political symbol, what McClean does or doesn't do is up to him, but his reasons in YOUR opinion is wrong, because he sees it as a Political symbol and you keep saying it's not!
You're judging FIFA saying it's a Political symbol, I don't care how they view it, they've set a precedent and can't change their minds.
		
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There's a question in there ? 

I defend people's free will to chose what they wear or not 

James McClean or indeed anyone shouldn't be forced to wear it - I don't agree with his reasons and what he sees the poppy as but he has a choice to wear it or not 

No one in FIFA is forced to wear it - they can make a decision for them but IMO they should allow countries to make their own decision to how they see the poppy and if they want to wear one or not 

FIFA is attempting to remove people's rights to wear one because of how they see it - they believe everyone should see the symbol how they do - well guess what because of free will others don't see it as a political symbol and will wear it for remembrance - and I'm glad our FA are sticking to their beliefs and will exercise their right to wear one.

If that doesn't satisfy whatever question you asked I'm not sure any answer will.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There's a question in there ? 

I defend people's free will to chose what they wear or not 

James McClean or indeed anyone shouldn't be forced to wear it - I don't agree with his reasons and what he sees the poppy as but he has a choice to wear it or not 

No one in FIFA is forced to wear it - they can make a decision for them but IMO they should allow countries to make their own decision to how they see the poppy and if they want to wear one or not 

FIFA is attempting to remove people's rights to wear one because of how they see it - they believe everyone should see the symbol how they do - well guess what because of free will others don't see it as a political symbol and will wear it for remembrance - and I'm glad our FA are sticking to their beliefs and will exercise their right to wear one.

If that doesn't satisfy whatever question you asked I'm not sure any answer will.
		
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Are you doing this on purpose? The debate/discussion whatever, is not about people wearing the Poppy, this thread is about whether it's a Political symbol, loads of people have tried to explain why and how it is to others and you keep saying it's not and talking about the rights to wear or not to wear.

Q.  Is the Poppy a Political symbol to some?

A.



Please feel free to fill in the answer, not whether you, me or anyone else agrees with them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you doing this on purpose? The debate/discussion whatever, is not about people wearing the Poppy, this thread is about whether it's a Political symbol, loads of people have tried to explain why and how it is to others and you keep saying it's not and talking about the rights to wear or not to wear.

Q.  Is the Poppy a Political symbol to some?

A.



Please feel free to fill in the answer, not whether you, me or anyone else agrees with them.
		
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Here is my first post on the matter 

Please read it carefully and i have even highlighted the appropiate area for you to help you out 



Liverpoolphil said:



			No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - *it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong *
*
For me it will always be about remembering those people  a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them* , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present. 

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example -* I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry* but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - *try and see passed all the political nonsense *and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy
		
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I think maybe you should just take a moment and actually read what im posting and remembering people post from a point of their own opinion. If you cant do that then its not worth responding


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol

The FA clearly state it's a symbol of remembrance and that's why the players will wear a poppy - to remember not to make any political statement ( like you saw with Argentina and their Falklands flag ). 

FIFA have made a decision about something that is actually nothing to do with them in regards the meaning of the poppy - the people that organise the Poppy Appeal and the people who started the Poppy rememberance all clearly state it is not a political statement - since when did FIFA believe they have the authority to change the meaning of the Poppy. 

When FIFA sort out their own morals and corruption then they can start to think about making judgements about others 

When they fine the FA and Scottish FA i hope both FA refuse and take it to court then they can attempt to prove it's a political statement. 

The poppy is nothing to do with FIFA or indeed any other country that doesn't wish to use it as asked symbol of remembrance.
		
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For all one of your earlier posts made a lot of sense, you can't then post this one and dismiss how others see the Poppy, stating FIFA have no authority to change the meaning, neither does McClean or anyone who sees it as a Political symbol, the wearing of one is irrelevant to how it's viewed by those opposed to the Poppy, FIFA have decided it is a Political Symbol.


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## Sweep (Nov 6, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I don't think there are there any WWI soldiers still alive ?
		
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And certainly not many who died between 1914 and 1918.
You know, I never thought about it that way. That's OK then. Let's just forget about them.


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## Sweep (Nov 6, 2016)

It's a great shame, but the poppy, an act of remembrance, has been politicised by some. However, if some have a problem with it then that is what it is, their problem. I wear mine as an act of remembrance for those who gave their lives for me. To ensure we never forget them or the wars they fought. To ensure children get to learn about these times in history, how they came about and what happened. Because, if we don't learn from history, all those people will have died in vain.

If we turn our backs on those who sacrificed their lives for us to prevent the professionally offended becoming offended then they died in vain and it will all happen again.


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## Old Skier (Nov 6, 2016)

If only the Americans and French new they were going to cause so much controversy


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 6, 2016)

Sweep said:



			And certainly not many who died between 1914 and 1918.
You know, I never thought about it that way. That's OK then. Let's just forget about them.
		
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It was a reply to 'looking after them'. Nothing whatsoever to do about forgetting them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2016)

FIFA have made it political. That doesn't excuse it, but in relation to the football team, it has decided the poppy is a political statement. As members of Fifa, in my opinion England and Scotland have an obligation to abide the rules laid down but their governing body. It doesn't diminish the meaning of the poppy and individual's right to wear it, but it never be used as a point scoring symbol. I hope once the game is over and Fifa impose whatever penalty they inevitably will, that the poppy can return to simply being what it is, a poignant symbol for those that gave their life for their country


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			FIFA have made it political. That doesn't excuse it, but in relation to the football team, it has decided the poppy is a political statement. As members of Fifa, in my opinion England and Scotland have an obligation to abide the rules laid down but their governing body. It doesn't diminish the meaning of the poppy and individual's right to wear it, but it never be used as a point scoring symbol. I hope once the game is over and Fifa impose whatever penalty they inevitably will, that the poppy can return to simply being what it is, a poignant symbol for those that gave their life for their country
		
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I agree - the poppy has unfortunately become a 'pawn' in the battle of egos that is the FA vs FIFA.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I agree - the poppy has unfortunately become a 'pawn' in the battle of egos that is the FA vs FIFA.
		
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Did you see Andy Murray wear one on his shirt in the final today? Caused no offence, maybe FIFA should learn from Tennis or Rugby governing bodies.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong 

For me it will always be about remembering those people  a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present. 

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example - I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - try and see passed all the political nonsense and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy
		
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Random question (slightly offtopic). How come the 16th? Would the 11th not work better? Not criticising at all, I just assume there must be some logic to the 16th and I'm nosy. Is it to do with the year?


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## Old Skier (Nov 7, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Random question (slightly offtopic). How come the 16th? Would the 11th not work better? Not criticising at all, I just assume there must be some logic to the 16th and I'm nosy. Is it to do with the year?
		
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Good question but I think you'll find they have been out a few years and it's 2016


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Random question (slightly offtopic). How come the 16th? Would the 11th not work better? Not criticising at all, I just assume there must be some logic to the 16th and I'm nosy. Is it to do with the year?
		
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Yeah 

The flag is commemorating the 100 years since the Battle of the Somme which was 1916


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 7, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			On the 25th of December 1914, the British & German armies managed to stop slaughtering each other for long enough to play a game of football and share a beer.
		
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From what I've read they were warned by the generals not to do it as they would be classed as "fraternising with the enemy" the following year.

Maybe the generals were future FIFA officials.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 7, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah 

The flag is commemorating the 100 years since the Battle of the Somme which was 1916

View attachment 21208

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Ahh ok that makes sense then! Knew there would be a logic somewhere I was missing


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2016)

Whether we agreed or disagreed with FIFA banning poppies they have today launched an investigation and charges into Wales and NI whose teams didn't wear armbands, one of the chargies is "The wearing of poppies by fans in the stand"
Completely ridiculous, are they seriously expecting teams to be responsible for that.


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## Papas1982 (Nov 23, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			Whether we agreed or disagreed with FIFA banning poppies they have today launched an investigation and charges into Wales and NI whose teams didn't wear armbands, one of the chargies is "The wearing of poppies by fans in the stand"
Completely ridiculous, are they seriously expecting teams to be responsible for that.
		
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Whilst agreeing with you that it's ridiculous. 

If teams a s can be charged for their fans racist chants, fighting or letting of flares then I'd say in fifas eyes they're equally responsible for poppies.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 24, 2016)

What if they'd worn a white poppy?  Not sure of them in any case - at a simplistic level they take from RBL fundraising.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2016)

I think the charge against Wales is less about the fans and more about the pre-arranged turning of cards to show a poppy in the crowd, the military with poppies in the tunnel and by the tunnel entrance. 

Once you accept that Fifa saw the poppy as political, like it or not they do, then all of those things that happened on the night were bound to bite them. It was almost childish in that the players could not wear poppies but we will have poppies showing nearly everywhere else.

We also expect Fifa or Uefa to punish clubs or international teams when fans shout offensive things, display political banners etc so this is just an extension of this. Again, you have to look at this from the starting point of the poppy is political in their eyes. If you don't do that then you will not grasp the rest of it. (sorry, this is a repeat of Papas point)


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the charge against Wales is less about the fans and more about the pre-arranged turning of cards to show a poppy in the crowd, the military with poppies in the tunnel and by the tunnel entrance. 

Once you accept that Fifa saw the poppy as political, like it or not they do, then all of those things that happened on the night were bound to bite them. It was almost childish in that the players could not wear poppies but we will have poppies showing nearly everywhere else.

We also expect Fifa or Uefa to punish clubs or international teams when fans shout offensive things, display political banners etc so this is just an extension of this. Again, you have to look at this from the starting point of the poppy is political in their eyes. If you don't do that then you will not grasp the rest of it. (sorry, this is a repeat of Papas point)
		
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I accept FIFA see the poppy as poilitical, the fans wearing poppies is listed as a seperate charge to the other chargeds you mention, the other charges Wales and NI organised so again no issue with FIFA bringing them into play, but are they now saying Teams are responsible for what a fan turns up in? 
Next England match I go with a T'Shirt say "Liberal Democrats support England" and the Lib Dem badge on it and FIFA are within their rights to charge England as my Shirt is political?


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## bobmac (Nov 24, 2016)

As long as it says 'Other political parties are available' on the back you should be all right


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2016)

bobmac said:



			As long as it says 'Other political parties are available' on the back you should be all right
		
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Quality :rofl: cheers Bob.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2016)

I think this stems from far right groups in Russia or Eastern Europe bearing slogans or Old Firm matches with religious comments etc. They expect stewards to remove them so yes, the country or club is responsible if they don't. How they expect stewards to remove 50,000 poppies I don't know so the Welsh FA would need to have asked fans not to wear them for the night as it would cost them a fine. You then have to hope that the fans understand and comply. The club or country is responsible for the fans in a stadium, for their behaviour, chants, slogans etc. Harsh or not that is how it works.


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## bobmac (Nov 24, 2016)

Bearing in mind how many millionaires there are in football around the world, can a few not get together and form a breakaway body to rival Fifa, they could call it Fexit.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think this stems from far right groups in Russia or Eastern Europe bearing slogans or Old Firm matches with religious comments etc. They expect stewards to remove them so yes, the country or club is responsible if they don't. How they expect stewards to remove 50,000 poppies I don't know so the Welsh FA would need to have asked fans not to wear them for the night as it would cost them a fine. You then have to hope that the fans understand and comply. The club or country is responsible for the fans in a stadium, for their behaviour, chants, slogans etc. Harsh or not that is how it works.
		
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Nope, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one matey, Wales and NI complied with FIFA's ruling by not wearing the Poppy on the shirts or armbands, no other comment was made by FIFA about commemoration and acts of remembrance, that's why both the Welsh and NI FA's are fighting it, bit of irony that the FIFA official at the England v Scotland game that reported them both was......Welsh&#128515;


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2016)

I like the last sentence although to be fair he didn't have much choice. I don't have a beef over this but I can see that once Fifa said no to the poppy then they had to be consistent over the charges. I don't think any of the home nations needed to pick a fight over this, it could easily have been avoided.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I like the last sentence although to be fair he didn't have much choice. I don't have a beef over this but I can see that once Fifa said no to the poppy then they had to be consistent over the charges. I don't think any of the home nations needed to pick a fight over this, it could easily have been avoided.
		
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FIFA could've sent anyone to be official delegate, does make you wonder if it was on purpose.
Just a thought and a bit extreme, how come FIFA sanctioned the armbands etc for the England v France game after the Paris attacks? surely acts of terrorism are political aren't they.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 24, 2016)

Can of worms Paul, can of worms. I am sure our press and respective FA's will be keeping a very close eye  on matches around the world in future for examples of double standards  on this subject. 

To be fair sending a Welsh delegate saved on flights and possibly hotels. Has Fifa finally stopped wasting money? Ha ha, maybe.


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## Sweep (Nov 25, 2016)

Does FIFA have jurisdiction over Premier League matches?
The reason I ask is that the Premier League is supporting the Rainbow Laces campaign in support of the LGBT community this weekend. If poppies are political isn't this campaign political too? Come to that, who decides what is political and what isn't?

As an aside, for me football is way too full of its own importance nowadays. Main streets in Manchester closed down on an important Thursday night for retailers so the police can walk supporters to Old Trafford for what was actually a second rate European game of little importance (and I am a United fan) is a good example. FIFA have shown themselves up for what they are over the last few years and the poppy thing is a prime example. The death of people in wars is way more important than football will ever be. If I was the FA I would say enough is enough and just leave FIFA and sit back and watch the whole pathetic corrupt fest crumble. At least we wouldn't have to endure a bent WC in Russia or in some far flung desert.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 25, 2016)

FIFA has no say over PL and UEFA only has say in European Comps


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## Sweep (Nov 25, 2016)

pauldj42 said:



			FIFA has no say over PL and UEFA only has say in European Comps
		
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So you can see the potential for double standards


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 25, 2016)

Sweep said:



			So you can see the potential for double standards
		
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Completely, that was my point about the France game, awful outrage and rightly acknowledge, but still political


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## Fish (Dec 19, 2016)

Well the fines have been announced, Not sure how Fifa can fine various amounts?   England Â£35k, Wales & Scotland Â£15.5k each and Northern Ireland Â£12k for displaying poppies during matches!

Is it means tested :smirk:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 19, 2016)

Fish said:



			Well the fines have been announced, Not sure how Fifa can fine various amounts?   England Â£35k, Wales & Scotland Â£15.5k each and Northern Ireland Â£12k for displaying poppies during matches!

Is it means tested :smirk:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144

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I doubt it - two years ago St Johnstone were fined Â£14,300 for a wee laddie waving a Palestinian flag at a Europa League match - and like most Scottish clubs we are not exactly rolling in it.


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## palindromicbob (Dec 19, 2016)

Fish said:



			Well the fines have been announced, Not sure how Fifa can fine various amounts?   England Â£35k, Wales & Scotland Â£15.5k each and Northern Ireland Â£12k for displaying poppies during matches!

Is it means tested :smirk:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144

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And the Republic of Ireland were fined less than Â£4000.  All an absolute joke. Think they just plucked numbers out of thin air.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 19, 2016)

Chile have been fined Â£30k for homophobic chants from the crowd. England get fined Â£35k for wearing a poppy. Is it any wonder that lots of people regard FIFA as a corrupt joke of an organisation?


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## bobmac (Dec 19, 2016)

Sounds like FIFA will be having a brilliant Christmas party


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## Sweep (Dec 19, 2016)

Fish said:



			Well the fines have been announced, Not sure how Fifa can fine various amounts?   England Â£35k, Wales & Scotland Â£15.5k each and Northern Ireland Â£12k for displaying poppies during matches!

Is it means tested :smirk:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38368144

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I might be wrong but I think England are additionally being done for people in the crowd displaying poppies and Lest We Forget messages on the electronic advertising boards etc.
Personally I think we should ask FIFA if they would have preferred Nazi rule right before we tell them where they can stuff their fine. I would leave FIFA before I paid them a penny. TBH I would leave anyway until it can prove it is properly cleaned up. By playing our part in FIFA we are complicit in their corruption.
We know its bent and with this ruling we know it is morally bankrupt too. I want us to have nothing to do with it.


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## bobmac (Dec 19, 2016)

Sweep said:



			I might be wrong but I think England are additionally being done for people in the crowd displaying poppies and Lest We Forget messages on the electronic advertising boards etc.
Personally I think we should ask FIFA if they would have preferred Nazi rule right before we tell them where they can stuff their fine. I would leave FIFA before I paid them a penny. TBH I would leave anyway until it can prove it is properly cleaned up. By playing our part in FIFA we are complicit in their corruption.
We know its bent and with this ruling we know it is morally bankrupt too. I want us to have nothing to do with it.
		
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Post no.88


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## Crazyface (Dec 20, 2016)

Sweep said:



			I might be wrong but I think England are additionally being done for people in the crowd displaying poppies and Lest We Forget messages on the electronic advertising boards etc.
Personally I think we should ask FIFA if they would have preferred Nazi rule right before we tell them where they can stuff their fine. I would leave FIFA before I paid them a penny. TBH I would leave anyway until it can prove it is properly cleaned up. By playing our part in FIFA we are complicit in their corruption.
We know its bent and with this ruling we know it is morally bankrupt too. I want us to have nothing to do with it.
		
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This. Then I'd say that none of the foreign players would be released to play for their respective countries during international weeks. It's about time football stopped being run by people who are just utter morons...just like Brexit. We did it, as we are the people. Unfortunatley the FA are just up the behinds of FIFA.


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## chico (Dec 20, 2016)

All the associations knew they would have been fined, FIFA told them. Surely it would have helped the Poppy appeal more if they never wore the Poppy and donated the amount of the fine to them instead of FIFA.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 20, 2016)

Sweep said:



			I might be wrong but I think England are additionally being done for people in the crowd displaying poppies and Lest We Forget messages on the electronic advertising boards etc.
Personally I think we should ask FIFA if they would have preferred Nazi rule right before we tell them where they can stuff their fine. I would leave FIFA before I paid them a penny. TBH I would leave anyway until it can prove it is properly cleaned up. By playing our part in FIFA we are complicit in their corruption.
We know its bent and with this ruling we know it is morally bankrupt too. I want us to have nothing to do with it.
		
Click to expand...

Not forgetting their crowd booing the Scots national anthem.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 20, 2016)

chico said:



			All the associations knew they would have been fined, FIFA told them. Surely it would have helped the Poppy appeal more if they never wore the Poppy and donated the amount of the fine to them instead of FIFA.
		
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I think they should still do that. Refuse to pay the fine to FIFA and donate the money to the British Legion.


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## IanM (Dec 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not forgetting their crowd booing the Scots national anthem.

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Scotland also booed their own!  mmm.... anyway, the irony of that bastion of integrity FIFA making money out of this is nauseating.  They fined some countries less for racist abuse of players....  The Poppy is not political, as evidenced by all Party Leaders attendance at the Cenotaph....  

Time to say "no"... we are not paying!  Shove it!


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## Sweep (Dec 20, 2016)

chico said:



			All the associations knew they would have been fined, FIFA told them. Surely it would have helped the Poppy appeal more if they never wore the Poppy and donated the amount of the fine to them instead of FIFA.
		
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Yeah, that's right. Bow down to bullying by the FIFA thought police. Imagine what would have happened if those that laid down their lives for us had done that.


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## Sweep (Dec 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not forgetting their crowd booing the Scots national anthem.

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Do the Scots have a national anthem other than God Save the Queen? 
Is everything in your life about Scotland?


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## IanM (Dec 20, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Do the Scots have a national anthem other than God Save the Queen? 
Is everything in your life about Scotland?
		
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Have some respect.  Scotland have stood up to FIFA for years, boycotting the World Cup Finals....


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 20, 2016)

IanM said:



			Have some respect.  Scotland have stood up to FIFA for years, boycotting the World Cup Finals....
		
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Oi!!! that's cruel (but true  )  At least we avoid embarrassing ourselves on the big stage - we never get out of the footlights.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 20, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Do the Scots have a national anthem other than God Save the Queen? 
Is everything in your life about Scotland?
		
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Are you still thinking @ 1951


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## Sweep (Dec 20, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Are you still thinking @ 1951
		
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According to Wikipedia God Save the Queen is the national anthem of the United Kingdom. You know, the Union you voted to be part of.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 21, 2016)

Sweep said:



			According to Wikipedia God Save the Queen is the national anthem of the United Kingdom. You know, the Union you voted to be part of.
		
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Yes... exactly what I said.
FoS is Scotland's anthem but England does not seem to have one, it uses the UK one.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 21, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Yeah, that's right. Bow down to bullying by the FIFA thought police. Imagine what would have happened if those that laid down their lives for us had done that.
		
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I assume that you don't do what your boss wants at work, for fear of being "bullied by the thought police"?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 21, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes... exactly what I said.
FoS is Scotland's anthem but England does not seem to have one, it uses the UK one.
		
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I used to love singing FoS at Murrayfield - but as soon as it was adopted as an 'anthem' for football it lost me a bit - though I still love listening to The Corries sing it as Roy Williamson originally intended it to be sung - more a lament rather than a rabble rouser.  Back to _Scots Wha Hae _methinks - or maybe Dougie MacLean's _Caledonia _- though that's maybe a little too ex-pat 'romantic'


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## Sweep (Dec 21, 2016)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I assume that you don't do what your boss wants at work, for fear of being "bullied by the thought police"?
		
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Not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that FIFA are our bosses? If I had a boss I would do what he wanted because he is paying me to work for him. FIFA don't pay England.


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## Sweep (Dec 21, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes... exactly what I said.
FoS is Scotland's anthem but England does not seem to have one, it uses the UK one.
		
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Seemingly we believe in the Union more than the Scots do. No surprise there. But maybe that's why it was booed.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 21, 2016)

The fines were an inevitable conclusion and unless the FA break away from FIFA then they will have to pay up. As there isn't any chance of the FA being so bold or radical then time to open the cheque book


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 22, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Seemingly we believe in the Union more than the Scots do. No surprise there. But maybe that's why it was booed.
		
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Yet another poor excuse.


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## Sweep (Dec 22, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yet another poor excuse.
		
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Boo
At least you can't boo our anthem. You would be booing yourselves &#128512;


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## Sweep (Dec 22, 2016)

I see the Irish Football Assoc (Northern Ireland) are paying up.
Pathetic in my opinion and a way to guaranee more of the same next year.
They should have the guts to stand up for those who stood up for them.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 22, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Boo
At least you can't boo our anthem. You would be booing yourselves &#128512;
		
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Who is our? 
Which English anthem?
As you well know GStQ is the UK [British] anthem and should not be used for International sporting matches unless it is by a British side. eg the Olympics and Lions games.


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## NWJocko (Dec 22, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Who is our? 
Which English anthem?
As you well know GStQ is the UK [British] anthem and should not be used for International sporting matches unless it is by a British side. eg the Olympics and Lions games.
		
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Never underestimate just how petty/chippy us Scots can be.........


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## User62651 (Dec 22, 2016)

Thought England used Jerusalem as their anthem sometimes? Don't like any of the UK or component part anthems myself.

French and Italians have proper rabble rousing upbeat tunes, ours are all a bit of a slow dirge...imho.

Soviet Union anthem was also great, lost now of course to the sands of time.


GSTQ is anti Scottish, FoS is anti English, neither are going to work well cross border!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 22, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Thought England used Jerusalem as their anthem sometimes? Don't like any of the UK or component part anthems myself.

French and Italians have proper rabble rousing upbeat tunes, ours are all a bit of a slow dirge...imho.

Soviet Union anthem was also great, lost now of course to the sands of time.


GSTQ is anti Scottish, FoS is anti English, neither are going to work well cross border!!
		
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Ahh but..........those days are gone now ,and in the past they must remain.


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## Sweep (Dec 23, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Who is our? 
Which English anthem?
As you well know GStQ is the UK [British] anthem and should not be used for International sporting matches unless it is by a British side. eg the Olympics and Lions games.
		
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Our anthem. You and me. Just because you want to break up the Union and have your own song doesn't mean we do. We will and do use it when we see fit. It was the Scots who decided to do otherwise.


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