# New Kitchen Advice



## Piece (Sep 2, 2021)

We are getting a new kitchen in the next few months. Currently we are working with Wren and Howdens looking to trade them off against each other.

Any experience, good or bad, with either Wren or Howdens?

Happy to receive any pointers or top tips on getting a new kitchen. 👍


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## GB72 (Sep 3, 2021)

My Howdens kitchen has been great but it is all the installer. The designer may have some great ideas but it is the fitter who brings it to life and has to cash the cheques that the designer has written. I don't think half the things out in our odd shaped kitchen would have worked with a less talented and creative fitter.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2021)

I agree with above .. it's all about the fitters 

My parents went Howdens but the fitter was amazing 

It's like everything now days , carpet .. kitchens, the air con I've had fitted today, the show room will give you the talk and say how amazing it is and will look good but the fitters do all the work 

Do you know any good fitters from friends? They could fit any kitchen you buy


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## williamalex1 (Sep 3, 2021)

I don't think Howden sell kitchens direct to the public, or do they ?


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## GB72 (Sep 3, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			I don't think Howden sell kitchens direct to the public, or do they ?
		
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Not sure as we knew a kitchen designer at Howdens who sorted everything.


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## larmen (Sep 3, 2021)

We bought a house with a Howdens kitchen and the fitter wasn’t that great. We met him when between viewings and moving in a couple of panels broke and we got promised repairs by the previous owner as the fitter is his mate, but the repairs never happened. Luckily the g/f is in the kitchen game herself, and while we can’t afford any of her fitters she picks up enough on side to fix panels and adjust doors, even some caulking.
I would happily take a Howdens kitchen, but someone needs to recommend a decent fitter 1st.
We also got a floor which we think might be Howdens (looks like one in the catalogue) and I am happy when we finally have to replace it. Feels a bit like a wobble boards in a couple of places. Our best guess is that there is plywood underlay which isn’t strong 3nough.

We are getting a new Lamona oven installed tomorrow, the old one broke after 3+ years (3 with us plus how long it was in before). Needs a little bit of rewiring as they used minimum cable strengths before and we need higher rated ones these days.


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## chellie (Sep 3, 2021)

Howdens, but wait until their sale to buy it. It's in October.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 3, 2021)

Search DIY Kitchens. 
Then find a competent joiner to fit it.


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## HowlingGale (Sep 3, 2021)

It might be worth investigating whether the carcasses come prebuilt with Wren. They do with Howdens. They are perceived to be stronger when they're not built onsite by the installer.

We have a Howdens one and the designer wasn't that great but I had a good idea of what we needed as I'd researched it to death. Stills seems OK 6 years in.

Do some research on appliances, especially the extractor hood. Howdens wanted to charge me over £1k for theirs but I got a good one online for £250 ish.


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## spongebob59 (Sep 3, 2021)

All about the fitter although he did say to avoid wrens as they had a tendency to come with bits missing.
We had quotes from Wickes, Wrens and Howdens and they all matched eachother so it's worth getting quotes in and see what they offer.


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## SatchFan (Sep 3, 2021)

Currently having ours done by Howdens. We are being measured up next week and then my wife will pop down to check what she likes. The actual purchase will be made through our builder.


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## Neilds (Sep 3, 2021)

We have had our last 2 kitchens from B&Q.  The current one for 5 years and the one in our old house is still going strong after 20 years (seen pictures on Right Move ).  A few fitters we have had round for our new bathroom have said they won't fit B&Q but then they didn't even bother to get back to us with a quote so how reliable are they?


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## Oddsocks (Sep 3, 2021)

We went with howdens mainly because of the carcasses.  The quality of that kitchen is great, however I sourced my hasn’t done a very good job. It’s 100% about the fitter and if you’re looking for one I’d ask if you can possibly view any of his previous work.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 3, 2021)

We went with Wren. Good design, quality units BUT their recommended fitter was a complete and utter numpty. 

Nightmare time and Wren sorted with basically new cupboard fronts and trims throughout and the replacement fitter was brilliant.

As has been said - it is significantly about the quality of the fitter...


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## GreiginFife (Sep 3, 2021)

We went with pre-built cabinets from Wren a couple of years back. Good quality and they look good to boot. My mate is a kitchen fitter so we got him in to do it for a grand and a good few games of golf at my club - seemed a decent deal 

The Wren cabinets were delivered well packaged and there was no damage so we were very happy with that.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 3, 2021)

Not sure what your budget is but we finished off our Kitchen unit’s ( Magnet) with granite worktops. They look amazing and finish the kitchen off fantastic.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 3, 2021)

IKEA do very good kitchens now if u get a fitter

Ours is IKEA it's nice but getting on for 20 years now


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## Stuart_C (Sep 3, 2021)

I'd swerve wren and "their" fitters. They're all subcontractors and wren haven't got the best customer services  for when said fitter makes mistakes. And they're not cheap nor value for money.

I'd try and find a local supplier and installer. Also not all joiners make good kitchen fitters.


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## cliveb (Sep 3, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			Not sure what your budget is but we finished off our Kitchen unit’s ( Magnet) with granite worktops. They look amazing and finish the kitchen off fantastic.
		
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+1 for granite.

You'll get lots of sales patter about how wonderful stuff like quartz and Corian is, and wood block is very fashionable right now, but granite is the dog's nuts. End of.


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## arnieboy (Sep 3, 2021)

We also went with Howdens, installed by our local builder.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 3, 2021)

cliveb said:



			+1 for granite.

You'll get lots of sales patter about how wonderful stuff like quartz and Corian is, and wood block is very fashionable right now, but granite is the dog's nuts. End of.
		
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Not sure if materials that have been used for decades count as being fashionable right now. 

Having put Corian in our previous house, and Quartz in the current house. I would recommend both if in budget and suit the look you want. 

I'd stay well clear of wood worktops personally.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 3, 2021)

williamalex1 said:



			I don't think Howden sell kitchens direct to the public, or do they ?
		
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They don't. You have to buy through your joiner / fitter. We have a Howdens kitchen, fitted 12 years ago and still going strong. 

As others have said, the fitter is key. Ideally you want a recommendation to go off but the good news is that the actual Howdens products are very decent. We would use them again.


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## Rooter (Sep 3, 2021)

I spent near enough 20 grand with Wren. Would I use them again??

NO.


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## RichA (Sep 3, 2021)

My Dad bought a recently built house 3 years ago that has a Howdens kitchen. The cabinets and worktops are great quality and really well fitted. It's only let down by their "own brand" cheap Lamona appliances, which are awful. 
We replaced the faulty oven in the first week. The hob is still in place, but various bits have come off or are in the process of coming off. The extractor hood fits poorly and vibrates noisily.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 3, 2021)

I have a Wren kitchen, excellent quality and the fitter did a fantastic job (did it myself;j )
IT doesn’t really matter which kitchen label you buy, the person installing it makes all the difference. I have seen absolute horrendous installations by all sorts.
Hood that’s blow nowhere, or reciruclate and don’t fit a charcoal cartridge, integrated fridge freezers that have no or minimal venting. This will invalidate the manufacturer warranty and kill the fridge freezer after next to no time.
Definately decide on what you need or want in your kitchen,  but remember no one gives anything away.


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## Dellboy (Sep 3, 2021)

Stay away from Wren, kitchens are mediocre at best and the after service is rubbish. 
Howdens are not bad, and forget what people say, they will sell to the public if you get ask nicely to your local branch, last I heard there was a long waiting time on some kitchens and a price increase coming very soon.


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## two-clubs (Sep 3, 2021)

I'm a kitchen fitter, I forget how many Howden kitchens I have fitted but it's a LOT. Probably the best all round choice in that price bracket is Howdens, usually good stock levels and if something is missing they usually get it in a few days. DIY kitchens would be my second choice, really good product but usually waiting times are longer and you have to self design, Howdens will do it for you.

I would swerve Wrens - a quick google will tell you why.


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## fundy (Sep 3, 2021)

Neither for me, would find a small local independent kitchen company and get them to source and install a kitchen for you, if you are determined to have one of those two then definitely Howdens but again find a decent independent fitter

We did this in the last house and got a better kitchen for similar money


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## KenL (Sep 4, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I'd stay well clear of wood worktops personally.
		
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Agree with that, we have one and it is rubbish.  New kitchen for us next year probably.


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## cliveb (Sep 4, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			I'd stay well clear of wood worktops personally.
		
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Maybe the way I worded it wasn't clear. I was trying to say avoid wood even though it's fashionable and you'll get a sales pitch for it.
I also think none of the synthetic options are as good as granite.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 4, 2021)

cliveb said:



			Maybe the way I worded it wasn't clear. I was trying to say avoid wood even though it's fashionable and you'll get a sales pitch for it.
I also think none of the synthetic options are as good as granite.
		
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Quartz is fine and doesn't need the yearly sealing granite does (not that many know or do that)


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## KenL (Sep 4, 2021)

Does granite not about double the total cost of the kitchen?


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## BiMGuy (Sep 4, 2021)

KenL said:



			Does granite not about double the total cost of the kitchen?
		
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Depends on the quality. Like everything, there are cheaper options. 

If I ever do another kitchen, I will have Corian again. Its expensive, but worth it.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 4, 2021)

We had Howdens fitted about 16 years ago.
Solid stuff and good fitter,
Bought new doors a couple of years ago and it looks feels like a new unit.


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## Piece (Sep 4, 2021)

Appreciate the reply guys! Very useful.


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## BrianM (Sep 4, 2021)

I’ve had 3 Howdens kitchens with no issues and 1 DIY kitchen, again no issues, the quality is excellent in both.
Just pricing up a new kitchen and went to Wren, seems expensive compared to the other 2.


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## bobmac (Sep 4, 2021)

Do your homework on lighting.
No point having a gorgeous kitchen if you cant see it.
I've run a 5m reel of LED lights under the top cabinets and the same on top.
Wired into an Alexa controlled plug.
A nice even light with no shadows


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 4, 2021)

Whatever kitchen you get, make sure you get a Quooker. Expensive to buy, but so convenient for making drinks and cooking


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## Pants (Sep 4, 2021)

Yorkhacker said:



			Whatever kitchen you get, make sure you get a Quooker. Expensive to buy, but so convenient for making drinks and cooking
		
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I don't know/care about what safety measures they have, with my wife that would be disasters waiting to happen.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 4, 2021)

Pants said:



			I don't know/care about what safety measures they have, with my wife that would be disasters waiting to happen.
		
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Having seen enough of these type of thing break. I'll stick with boiling the kettle. Seems like a waste of energy keeping water that hot just in case you want to make a drink. And with indication hobs. It takes not time to boil water in a pan.


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 4, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Having seen enough of these type of thing break. I'll stick with boiling the kettle. Seems like a waste of energy keeping water that hot just in case you want to make a drink. And with indication hobs. It takes not time to boil water in a pan.
		
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It's cheaper and more efficient than boiling a kettle. The thermos is ultra efficient and there is no waste as you only use the water you need. Additionally you can add boiling water to cold when washing up a couple of things so you don't need to wait for the hot water to come through


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## Pants (Sep 4, 2021)

Yorkhacker said:



			It's cheaper and more efficient than boiling a kettle.
		
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Really??   It might, and I repeat might, use fractionally less energy compared to (say) using a kettle, BUT with the upfront cost, ongoing maintenance, filters, etc my fag packet shows that you probably would need 20 - 40 years to show a profit - and that is only based on the unit lasting that long.

Latest must have, look what I've got, gizmo imho.  And I still wouldn't let SWMBO anywhere near one.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 4, 2021)

Pants said:



			Really??   It might, and I repeat might, use fractionally less energy compared to (say) using a kettle, BUT with the upfront cost, ongoing maintenance, filters, etc my fag packet shows that you probably would need 20 - 40 years to show a profit - and that is only based on the unit lasting that long.

Latest must have, look what I've got, gizmo imho.  And I still wouldn't let SWMBO anywhere near one.
		
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The yearly service costs are quite eye watering.


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 4, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The yearly service costs are quite eye watering.
		
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They don't need servicing unless they have a chiller built in


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## Yorkhacker (Sep 4, 2021)

Pants said:



			Really??   It might, and I repeat might, use fractionally less energy compared to (say) using a kettle, BUT with the upfront cost, ongoing maintenance, filters, etc my fag packet shows that you probably would need 20 - 40 years to show a profit - and that is only based on the unit lasting that long.

Latest must have, look what I've got, gizmo imho.  And I still wouldn't let SWMBO anywhere near one.
		
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Like most gadgets, it's not about the cost it's about the convenience.  Why do people buy microwaves when they already have an oven? If you wouldn't let SWMBO near a Quooker, I hope you don't let her use a kettle!


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## Pants (Sep 4, 2021)

We had a new kitchen 2 years ago and the fitter/supplier mentioned this as an option, but didn't push it.  We weighed up the up front cost, on going costs, convenience, and decided that it definitely wasn't worth it on several fronts.  Our choice.

One assumes that you have bought into it.  Your choice.

Each to their own.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 4, 2021)

Yorkhacker said:



			They don't need servicing unless they have a chiller built in
		
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Just repeating what an engineer from them said....


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## Pants (Sep 4, 2021)

From Which.co.uk (My underlining)

_There's a filter built into the hot water tank, which can last up to five years. If you live in a hard water area you can also add a limescale-control unit for £245. Replacement filters for the limescale unit cost £90 and will need to be replaced every 24 months. 
As for the filter in the tank itself, you could either get a Quooker engineer to service the tap and replace the filter for £150 or do it yourself with a kit for £30. 
Quooker also sell a cold-water filter to make drinking water taste better. It's available on the Flex and Fusion taps and needs to replaced every six months._

So that's a real bargain then.  We'll stick with an energy efficient (and cost effective) kettle.


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## Crazyface (Sep 9, 2021)

Make sure the fitter knows how to pull the work tops together without using a joining strip. Much nicer finish.


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## IanM (May 12, 2022)

We were in Wrens today for a recce.... all very shiny and smart, helpful sales folk.  No decision on where we are going, but this has got me thinking!  (sorry for thread resurrection )


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## BrianM (May 12, 2022)

I’ve just bought my 4th Howdens kitchen, can’t fault them.
DIY kitchen quality was excellent as well, put one in my holiday house.
Be prepared to pay the same again for worktops 😂😂


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## HeftyHacker (May 12, 2022)

We bought a wren kitchen last year and we're very happy with it. Fitter seemed pretty pleased with it all as well.

However,  we saved a fortune by buying the quartz worktop from a local supplier. We basically showed them the sample we'd got from wren and they matched it as close as they could. I think Wren wanted £3k for the worktop and this firm did it fitted for £1.6k.


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## KenL (May 12, 2022)

Why spend many thousands on a worktop? I don't get it myself.


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## Yorkhacker (May 12, 2022)

KenL said:



			Why spend many thousands on a worktop? I don't get it myself.
		
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If you're spending many more thousands on the rest of the kitchen, why would you spoil it with a cheap worktop. It will become very noticeable, very quickly


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## larmen (May 12, 2022)

The misses is just back from abroad where they installed a worktop for a customer. They spend that money just on transport!


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## Piece (May 12, 2022)

Our Howdens kitchen is superb 👌.  Get a decent fitter and job done. 

Just ordered a kitchen for my Mum 👍


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## BrianM (May 12, 2022)

KenL said:



			Why spend many thousands on a worktop? I don't get it myself.
		
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The worktop makes the Kitchen Ken, no point in fitting a kitchen and putting in a crap worktop!!


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## KenL (May 12, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The worktop makes the Kitchen Ken, no point in fitting a kitchen and putting in a crap worktop!!
		
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I didn't say fit a crap worktop.  There are good looking alternatives to quartz and granite are there not?
We need to replace our kitchen, thankfully it is small. But, the thought of a few grand just for a worktop is scary.


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## williamalex1 (May 12, 2022)

Seemingly Wren does make good kitchens.
But they built an unnecessarily high extension [ unused air space, and loss of heat ].
But sadly it blocks out about 2 hours of our already limited sunshine .


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 13, 2022)

Got a Howdens consultant coming round next week to measure up and discuss our needs for a new kitchen. Was going to also look at Wren but don’t think I’ll bother.  Our builder will install…he has a long and good working relationship with the Howdens branch we are using.  Have been thinking taps and 1) don’t see the point of the ‘professional’ style 2) Quooker boiling water tap…my Mrs is very wary…plus the outlay and ongoing costs given our water is very hard…really?  Nah.  Got a lot of other stuff we need to sort ahead of such an extravagance.

Existing Howdens kitchen has lasted well.  Still to decide on worktops (current from Howdens is wood) and appliance brand, as not over enamoured by our Lamona fridge and freezer…though our Bosch oven and ceramic hob are fine.  But will def look at alternative brands…suggestions (Neff etc?) welcome 👍


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## williamalex1 (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Got a Howdens consultant coming round next week to measure up and discuss our needs for a new kitchen. Was going to also look at Wren but don’t think I’ll bother.  Our builder will install…he has a long and good working relationship with the Howdens branch we are using.  Have been thinking taps and 1) don’t see the point of the ‘professional’ style 2) Quooker boiling water tap…my Mrs is very wary…plus the outlay and ongoing costs given our water is very hard…really?  Nah.  Got a lot of other stuff we need to sort ahead of such an extravagance.

Existing Howdens kitchen has lasted well.  Still to decide on worktops (current from Howdens is wood) and appliance brand, as not over enamoured by our Lamont fridge and freezer…though our Bosch oven and ceramic hob are fine.  But will def look at alternative brands…suggestions (Neff etc?) welcome 👍
		
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I thought you guys were thinking of moving back up north in the near future.


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## CliveW (May 13, 2022)

We have recently moved a fairly new build house and it has a Howden's fitted kitchen and utility room. I do not know if Howden designed the kitchen, but it just does not work well. The quality of units are great, but the island unit is too close to the sink/dishwasher so the seating is so close that you cannot sit at the island and have folk walk past or use the sink. The other side of the island, where the cupboards/drawers are, is too far from the cooker so makes it difficult to use for food preparation. It also has a range cooker with the ovens at low level which are difficult to use and clean. Luckily the units are still available from Howdens so we have ordered an eye level built in oven with additional oven/microwave and an induction hob from an independent fitter and we will also have the island moved closer to the cooker.


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## cliveb (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Got a Howdens consultant coming round next week to measure up and discuss our needs for a new kitchen. Was going to also look at Wren but don’t think I’ll bother.  Our builder will install…he has a long and good working relationship with the Howdens branch we are using.  Have been thinking taps and 1) don’t see the point of the ‘professional’ style 2) Quooker boiling water tap…my Mrs is very wary…plus the outlay and ongoing costs given our water is very hard…really?  Nah.  Got a lot of other stuff we need to sort ahead of such an extravagance.

Existing Howdens kitchen has lasted well.  Still to decide on worktops (current from Howdens is wood) and appliance brand, as not over enamoured by our Lamont fridge and freezer…though our Bosch oven and ceramic hob are fine.  But will def look at alternative brands…suggestions (Neff etc?) welcome 👍
		
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Taps: those spray heads are very useful. Never appreciated that until we bought a house which had one. Wouldn't be without, now.

Hard water: get a softener. Really worthwhile. Gone are limescale issues on things like shower heads, toilet bowls, etc.

Wooden worktops: avoid. Stupid idea. They may look nice, but are utterly unsuited to the job.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 13, 2022)

williamalex1 said:



			I thought you guys were thinking of moving back up north in the near future.

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We were and still are, but given our experience of value of living v close to our daughter through the pandemic and since, plus the use we made of our garden and the park at top of our road which goes directly onto open countryside, my Mrs has decided she doesn’t want to move until she sees our daughter settled and progressing well in her career and with her partner ‘the golf pro’ - could be up to 5yrs.

So we are doing a significant reconfiguring of our downstairs and doing a couple of extensions for what we have always rather yearned for in our house but never did as always thought we’d move.  We won’t lose out financially, though we don’t need return on investment and aren’t doing it for that reason, within 5 yrs what we spend should more than return outlay if and when we move.  So kitchen will be cut in half with existing Howdens kitchen staying where it is but in a new utility room, and new (probably) Howdens kitchen in our new kitchen.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 13, 2022)

CliveW said:



			We have recently moved a fairly new build house and it has a Howden's fitted kitchen and utility room. I do not know if Howden designed the kitchen, but it just does not work well. The quality of units are great, but the island unit is too close to the sink/dishwasher so the seating is so close that you cannot sit at the island and have folk walk past or use the sink. The other side of the island, where the cupboards/drawers are, is too far from the cooker so makes it difficult to use for food preparation. It also has a range cooker with the ovens at low level which are difficult to use and clean. Luckily the units are still available from Howdens so we have ordered an eye level built in oven with additional oven/microwave and an induction hob from an independent fitter and we will also have the island moved closer to the cooker.
		
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We are probably not going to have an island for reasons you have given.  As much as they can be great, we see too many examples of kitchens in which an island dominates and determines and limits how the kitchen space is used.  Advice re eye-level oven and second oven is good, bending down for me is easy, straightening up less so 🙄 And built in microwave to reduce clutter on work top is prob what we’ll do as even though we are working on a blank canvas our worktop area will not be huge.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 13, 2022)

cliveb said:



			Taps: those spray heads are very useful. Never appreciated that until we bought a house which had one. Wouldn't be without, now.

Hard water: get a softener. Really worthwhile. Gone are limescale issues on things like shower heads, toilet bowls, etc.

Wooden worktops: avoid. Stupid idea. They may look nice, but are utterly unsuited to the job.
		
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Will look a a softener - I guess we could put one immediately where cold supply/riser comes in. And yes, as much as our wooden worktop looks great it has marked.  And as much as I haven’t minded rubbing it down and recoiling it…

And will think on the ‘springy tap’ - not sure I see why a spray head would be useful on what is mostly for very utilitarian needs.


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## BiMGuy (May 13, 2022)

KenL said:



			I didn't say fit a crap worktop.  There are good looking alternatives to quartz and granite are there not?
We need to replace our kitchen, thankfully it is small. But, the thought of a few grand just for a worktop is scary.
		
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Why is spending money on quality items scary?


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## Golfmmad (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Got a Howdens consultant coming round next week to measure up and discuss our needs for a new kitchen. Was going to also look at Wren but don’t think I’ll bother.  Our builder will install…he has a long and good working relationship with the Howdens branch we are using.  Have been thinking taps and 1) don’t see the point of the ‘professional’ style 2) Quooker boiling water tap…my Mrs is very wary…plus the outlay and ongoing costs given our water is very hard…really?  Nah.  Got a lot of other stuff we need to sort ahead of such an extravagance.

Existing Howdens kitchen has lasted well.  Still to decide on worktops (current from Howdens is wood) and appliance brand, as not over enamoured by our Lamona fridge and freezer…though our Bosch oven and ceramic hob are fine.  But will def look at alternative brands…suggestions (Neff etc?) welcome 👍
		
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We had AEG ovens and induction hob, very pleased with both and I think are a bit cheaper than Neff but just as good. 
As an aside, we bought waste and recycling bins which are attached to the door of a base unit. German make, expensive, but really good quality. Three bins, one general waste, two food waste and larger for recycling, also a sliding tray above where Mrs keeps washing powder tub, which helps keep smells down. 
Still going strong after 4years!


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## CliveW (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Advice re eye-level oven and second oven is good, bending down for me is easy, straightening up less so 🙄 And built in microwave to reduce clutter on work top is prob what we’ll do
		
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Should have explained better. The built in microwave is actually a second oven/grill with a combination microwave. There is also a slide out warming drawer under the main oven.


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## cliveb (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And will think on the ‘springy tap’ - not sure I see why a spray head would be useful on what is mostly for very utilitarian needs.
		
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Being able to direct the spray exactly where you want it is helpful.
You can adjust the power of the spray until it's quite forceful, which is sometimes useful.
It makes any kind of rinsing so much easier.
Difficult to appreciate until you've used one. If you can find a friend or neighbour with one ask if you can have a go.


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## cliveb (May 13, 2022)

CliveW said:



			Should have explained better. The built in microwave is actually a second oven/grill with a combination microwave.
		
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We had an AEG combi oven/microwave in our previous house.
It was a nice small oven.
But as a microwave it was absolutely useless, with hot spots. Once tried defrosting something which ended up burnt on one side while still frozen solid elsewhere.
And the bloody thing cost about a grand.

AEG's response to our complaint? "Oh you need to rotate the food and move it around while it's in there".
And here was me thinking that the point of a microwave is that it's supposed to be convenient.

We ended up buying a countertop microwave - which has a turntable and doesn't need us to faff about.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 13, 2022)

All excellent tips and suggestions - thanks.  Any more ‘must haves’ or ‘don’t does’?


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## Rooter (May 13, 2022)

cliveb said:



			Being able to direct the spray exactly where you want it is helpful.
You can adjust the power of the spray until it's quite forceful, which is sometimes useful.
It makes any kind of rinsing so much easier.
Difficult to appreciate until you've used one. If you can find a friend or neighbour with one ask if you can have a go.
		
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We have one, such a handy thing.


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## Rooter (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			All excellent tips and suggestions - thanks.  Any more ‘must haves’ or ‘don’t does’?
		
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Do question the planner. Our guy said "you cant do that, you cant have this' we did and it works perfectly.

EG. We have a drawer directly under the induction hob. It does not as he said it would, heat up the cutlery.

We got our worktops from a worktop specialist in slough (I can dig out their name if you want) Wren said we could not have that big a worktop for our island. We did and it looks awesome. It seats 4 people with ease. Will post a pic if its clean...

Don't trust their measurements, measure again yourself. They Messed up with the gap for our American Fridge. Note, Not all American fridges are the same height!!! We had to heavily modify our above fridge cupboard and god forbid our fridge breaks and we need a new one!! Measure everything yourself TWICE!


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## Rooter (May 13, 2022)




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## fundy (May 13, 2022)

Rooter said:



			Do question the planner. Our guy said "you cant do that, you cant have this' we did and it works perfectly.

EG. We have a drawer directly under the induction hob. It does not as he said it would, heat up the cutlery.

We got our worktops from a worktop specialist in slough (I can dig out their name if you want) Wren said we could not have that big a worktop for our island. We did and it looks awesome. It seats 4 people with ease. Will post a pic if its clean...

Don't trust their measurements, measure again yourself. They Messed up with the gap for our American Fridge. Note, Not all American fridges are the same height!!! We had to heavily modify our above fridge cupboard and god forbid our fridge breaks and we need a new one!! Measure everything yourself TWICE!
		
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just sounds like a list of reasons to use a competent company rather than Wren to me that Scooter


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## Rooter (May 13, 2022)

Last thing, think about lighting early!! I regret not putting in better lighting above the sink. You end up washing up a bit in your own shadow..


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## Canary_Yellow (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			All excellent tips and suggestions - thanks.  Any more ‘must haves’ or ‘don’t does’?
		
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My advice would be, and apologies if already covered elsewhere, is that howdens kitchens are good, we're very pleased with ours (fitted one year ago), but don't buy anything other than the units from them. The other things they sell are expensive for the quality.

We've got a quartz worktop that we got from a specialist worktop man, bought sinks and taps from elsewhere, and would buy appliances elsewhere too. Howdens sell taps under their brand, but if you shop about you'll find the same ones for less elsewhere even if you did want one howdens sell. We bought our appliances from AO. We do have a lamona fridge in the utility room, but they through that in for free, otherwise we'd have bought a different brand.


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## Rooter (May 13, 2022)

Canary_Yellow said:



			My advice would be, and apologies if already covered elsewhere, is that howdens kitchens are good, we're very pleased with ours (fitted one year ago), but don't buy anything other than the units from them. The other things they sell are expensive for the quality.

We've got a quartz worktop that we got from a specialist worktop man, bought sinks and taps from elsewhere, and would buy appliances elsewhere too. Howdens sell taps under their brand, but if you shop about you'll find the same ones for less elsewhere even if you did want one howdens sell. We bought our appliances from AO. We do have a lamona fridge in the utility room, but they through that in for free, otherwise we'd have bought a different brand.
		
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Oh the same, we bought Siemens stuff (Don't bother, its the same, just more expensive than Bosch/Neff). We bought 2 ovens, Integrated Mic and hob, from 3 different shops. Hughes electrical, Appliances direct and Currys. Saved about a grand all in!!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			All excellent tips and suggestions - thanks.  Any more ‘must haves’ or ‘don’t does’?
		
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To quote Kirsty Allsop, 'pan draws, you can never have too many'. Draws that slide in an out, meaning nothing gets stuck at the back, you can see everything and you no longer have to bend down awkwardly. Kirsty knows her kitchens 

Plug sockets. Get extra to how many you think you need. You always need more. I stayed in a holiday cottage that had pop up sockets in the island, inc usb points. I loved that. Ideal for charging phones, tablets, smart speakers etc.


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## Rooter (May 13, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			To quote Kirsty Allsop, 'pan draws, you can never have too many'. Draws that slide in an out, meaning nothing gets stuck at the back, you can see everything and you no longer have to bend down awkwardly. Kirsty knows her kitchens 

Plug sockets. Get extra to how many you think you need. You always need more. I stayed in a holiday cottage that had pop up sockets in the island, inc usb points. I loved that. Ideal for charging phones, tablets, smart speakers etc.
		
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If you are having an island or seating, get USB plug sockets near by.


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## HeftyHacker (May 13, 2022)

Rooter said:



			If you are having an island or seating, get USB plug sockets near by.
		
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This. We've got a lovely big island and I often wish we had more accessible plug sockets on it. We have 3 doubles on it but they're taken up with the boiling tap and the wine cooler under the sink and then the other doubles are hidden in a cupboard under where the seats go at the breakfast bar. So are never used and a bit awkward to get to.


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## Rooter (May 13, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			This. We've got a lovely big island and I often wish we had more accessible plug sockets on it. We have 3 doubles on it but they're taken up with the boiling tap and the wine cooler under the sink and then the other doubles are hidden in a cupboard under where the seats go at the breakfast bar. So are never used and a bit awkward to get to.
		
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 you could use them to spur off and put a new socket on the side, look at the pic I posted earlier, we have them on either end


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 13, 2022)

Rooter said:



			Last thing, think about lighting early!! I regret not putting in better lighting above the sink. You end up washing up a bit in your own shadow..
		
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Lighting is something that we have not really engaged our thinking on…and I‘m aware it could become a last minute - we’ve got to make a decision…now! thing.


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## CliveW (May 13, 2022)

Rooter said:



View attachment 42583

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I don't rate those kitchen fitters, they've fitted it on the wall!


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## Piece (May 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Got a Howdens consultant coming round next week to measure up and discuss our needs for a new kitchen. Was going to also look at Wren but don’t think I’ll bother.  Our builder will install…he has a long and good working relationship with the Howdens branch we are using.  Have been thinking taps and 1) don’t see the point of the ‘professional’ style 2) Quooker boiling water tap…my Mrs is very wary…plus the outlay and ongoing costs given our water is very hard…really?  Nah.  Got a lot of other stuff we need to sort ahead of such an extravagance.

Existing Howdens kitchen has lasted well.  Still to decide on worktops (current from Howdens is wood) and appliance brand, as not over enamoured by our Lamona fridge and freezer…though our Bosch oven and ceramic hob are fine.  But will def look at alternative brands…suggestions (Neff etc?) welcome 👍
		
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If you look at the Lamona reviews - not great all. We went the extra mile and got Neff hob and Miele oven; both brilliant. I didn't buy these via Howdens as I sourced via Currys as I get a discount.

We opted for a removeable flexi tap - extremely handy and useful.


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## Canary_Yellow (May 13, 2022)

Piece said:



			If you look at the Lamona reviews - not great all. We went the extra mile and got Neff hob and Miele oven; both brilliant. I didn't buy these via Howdens as I sourced via Currys as I get a discount.

We opted for a removeable flexi tap - extremely handy and useful.
		
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Fully agree on the flexi tap. Our has a pull out so it’s not in view if you don’t want it to be (wife’s preference!)


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## Fade and Die (May 13, 2022)

Rooter said:



View attachment 42583

Click to expand...

That looks great, toying with the idea of an island ourselves for the Hob, is the extractor any good, Does it vent out or recirc?


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## Rooter (May 16, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			That looks great, toying with the idea of an island ourselves for the Hob, is the extractor any good, Does it vent out or recirc?
		
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Recirc, which is not amazing, it does an OK job. We struggled with the direction of the joists to get a vented one,


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## Bunkermagnet (May 16, 2022)

Rooter said:



			Recirc, which is not amazing, it does an OK job. We struggled with the direction of the joists to get a vented one,
		
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Hope you change the charcoal cartridges regularly


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## Fade and Die (May 16, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Hope you change the charcoal cartridges regularly

Click to expand...


Even then its the steam that causes problems. It would have to vent to the air for us but it means putting it through the roof. (Single story pitched roof extension) probably easier just to keep the hob along the wall and go for an over sized extractor. Keep the Island as a breakfast bar.


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## Bunkermagnet (May 16, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Even then its the steam that causes problems. It would have to vent to the air for us but it means putting it through the roof. (Single story pitched roof extension) probably easier just to keep the hob along the wall and go for an over sized extractor. Keep the Island as a breakfast bar.
		
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If a hood is recirculating you need to change the charcoal cartridge/s every 6 months or more depending on use. If it has metal mesh filters, they can go through the dishwasher once a month or if it has paper filters instead of the metal mesh then that should be changed when the markings are visible from the back through to the front.
I accept reculating is no where as good as extraction, but if reculating has to be the way it is important to maximise the hoods effectivness with regular filter changes/replacements. Sadly many fitters dont fit charcoal cartridges as they are very often an accessory and not standard supply with a new hood.
If the hood is drawing good air flow, then even the steam should be drawn through the filters and neutralised


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 30, 2022)

Have had designs for a new kitchen created by Howdens and Wren - very different experiences given the very flash and impressive Wren showroom and virtual reality facility compared with the Howdens pretty bared down approach. 

Looking wider than these two, friends of ours have an Optiplan kitchen as we have a local branch.  They are pleased with their kitchen and experience - and so we went along today and we were impressed by the design consultant - he listened to us closely and took us logically through what might work and what wouldn't...and so they are on the table.  Follow-up session with him scheduled for a couple of weeks time when he'll take us through a design.  Anyone had experience of Optiplan kitchens?


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## richart (Jun 30, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Looking wider than these two, friends of ours have an Optiplan kitchen as we have a local branch.  They are pleased with their kitchen and experience - and so we went along today and we were impressed by the design consultant - he listened to us closely and took us logically through what might work and what wouldn't...and so they are on the table.  Follow-up session with him scheduled for a couple of weeks time when he'll take us through a design.  Anyone had experience of Optiplan kitchens?
		
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 Had two kitchens from them first one 30 years ago which was fine. Second one about seven years ago which was not so good.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 30, 2022)

richart said:



			Had two kitchens from them first one 30 years ago which was fine. Second one about seven years ago which was not so good.
		
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If you can share those aspects of concern that would be helpful - PM if you prefer.  If your concerns are relevant to the kitchen we are looking for I may ask the appropriate questions and/or seek reassurances on the aspects of issue.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 6, 2022)

We are electricity for cooking and not going to go gas.  So…Induction hob or ceramic? And is risk that induction hobs present to those with a pacemaker over-stated?


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## Beedee (Jul 6, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			We are electricity for cooking and not going to go gas.  So…Induction hob or ceramic? And is risk that induction hobs present to those with a pacemaker over-stated?
		
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I love my induction hob.  Stupidly fast at boiling a pot of water, but still very controllable.  It was a pain having to change all the pots and pans tho.

The manual does have a specific "do not use if you have a pacemaker" warning.  I'd never heard of the problem before I read the manual, but I must admit I wouldn't risk it if there was a pacemaker-user living in the house.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 6, 2022)

Beedee said:



			I love my induction hob.  Stupidly fast at boiling a pot of water, but still very controllable.  It was a pain having to change all the pots and pans tho.

The manual does have a specific "do not use if you have a pacemaker" warning.  I'd never heard of the problem before I read the manual, but I must admit I wouldn't risk it if there was a pacemaker-user living in the house.
		
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we do have a friend who has a pacemaker - though he rarely comes round to our house.


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## CliveW (Jul 6, 2022)

Induction leaves any other option standing. As controllable as gas, but safer.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 6, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			We are electricity for cooking and not going to go gas.  So…Induction hob or ceramic? And is risk that induction hobs present to those with a pacemaker over-stated?
		
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Induction any day of the week, and not the 13a plug in ones, the full blown 6 or7 kw ones that need  their own 32a circuit. Also make sure the back of the cupboard under the hob has ventilation put into it.


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## cliveb (Jul 6, 2022)

CliveW said:



			Induction leaves any other option standing. As controllable as gas, but safer.
		
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Not only as controllable as gas, but massively quicker to get stuff going.

The only possible downside is that if you whack it up to max to start a pan, you need to watch it like a hawk otherwise you can turn your back for 5 seconds and the damn thing has boiled over.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 18, 2022)

Forummers experience please of compact multifunction ovens with microwave…

These are generally £1000+ and we are considering combining one with a ‘full size’ oven.  Lot of money so how we’ll do they deliver…ease of use etc.

Concern is that we might be wishing to use microwave at same time as compact oven is in use.  How often that is I don’t know…probably pretty rare…so could go separate compact oven and microwave,  but the combination?

I guess the key question on combi compact oven/micro is…If I have something oven cooking and want to use the microwave…can I just take the food out of the oven and switch to and *immediately* use the microwave.  Then when done with microwave put the food back in to continue oven cooking?


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## cliveb (Jul 18, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Forummers experience please of compact multifunction ovens with microwave…

These are generally £1000+ and we are considering combining one with a ‘full size’ oven.  Lot of money so how we’ll do they deliver…ease of use etc.

Concern is that we might be wishing to use microwave at same time as compact oven is in use.  How often that is I don’t know…probably pretty rare…so could go separate compact oven and microwave,  but the combination?

I guess the key question on combi compact oven/micro is…If I have something oven cooking and want to use the microwave…can I just take the food out of the oven and switch to and *immediately* use the microwave.  Then when done with microwave put the food back in to continue oven cooking?
		
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We had one of them installed when we had the kitchen done about 6 years ago. It was a top of the range AEG and as you say, cost about £1000.

As a conventional small fan oven, it was fine. The big full size oven only got used when it was really needed.

As a microwave it was absolutely useless, with hot spots and cold spots. Supposedly had a rotating antenna, but it didn't do the job.
We once tried to defrost a naan in there and part came out still frozen while in another place it was burnt.

We ended up having to buy a normal countertop microwave.


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## bobmac (Jul 18, 2022)

Here's mine....


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 18, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Forummers experience please of compact multifunction ovens with microwave…

These are generally £1000+ and we are considering combining one with a ‘full size’ oven.  Lot of money so how we’ll do they deliver…ease of use etc.

Concern is that we might be wishing to use microwave at same time as compact oven is in use.  How often that is I don’t know…probably pretty rare…so could go separate compact oven and microwave,  but the combination?

I guess the key question on combi compact oven/micro is…If I have something oven cooking and want to use the microwave…can I just take the food out of the oven and switch to and *immediately* use the microwave.  Then when done with microwave put the food back in to continue oven cooking?
		
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Combination oven/microwaves can be a good idea, but also expensive if they go wrong. Right now supply isn't good, but an integrated one wont be cheap. We have a Panasonic one (I bought the integrated kit to go with it after buying it) to go with our Miele oven. The Pana combi is a great little oven, economical and quick to use, and as a microwave is perfect. It doens't have a turntable, just wave guide antenna's (as all microwaves go that don't have a turntable. The biggest upside is that the cavity will take more or bigger items when using the microwave but some can suffer from uneven cooking IF the user doesn't pause the cooking and move the item/'s around as the instructions will probably say. Mine though cooks fine and even.
As far as using different cooking methods straight after each other, yes thats not problem other than be sure to use an item to hold the food thats happy with the temperatues already created.
Personally, I think they are an ideal companion to a single oven and something I would always have in a kitchen now.


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## cliveb (Jul 18, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			but some can suffer from uneven cooking IF the user doesn't pause the cooking and move the item/'s around as the instructions will probably say.
		
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I thought the idea of a microwave is that it's convenient. Having to faff about constantly moving the food around as it cooks (as we had to with our AEG) doesn't exactly fit that purpose.

The fact that a £50 microwave with a turntable cooks just fine but a £1000 combi oven needs babying is frankly scandalous.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 19, 2022)

cliveb said:



			I thought the idea of a microwave is that it's convenient. Having to faff about constantly moving the food around as it cooks (as we had to with our AEG) doesn't exactly fit that purpose.

The fact that a £50 microwave with a turntable cooks just fine but a £1000 combi oven needs babying is frankly scandalous.
		
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Microwave cooking is about speed of cook, not convenience. Most microwaves mount the magnetron(fires the very short radio waves) on the side so the waves emanate form the side. Unless the item being cooked is rotating it is a challenge to keep an even penetration by the microwaves.


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## cliveb (Jul 19, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Microwave cooking is about speed of cook, not convenience.
		
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And there was me, thinking for the last 40 years that convenience was an important aspect to microwave cooking.
I guess you're never too old to learn!


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 19, 2022)

cliveb said:



			And there was me, thinking for the last 40 years that convenience was an important aspect to microwave cooking.
I guess you're never too old to learn!
		
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Since I can’t read which way to take that, I’ll try and be as neutral as I can.
If you consider reducing cooking times of something dramatic as inconvenient because the item has to be moved midway through the time, then I can only assume you also consider having to allow the food “standing time” after your cooking time as finished also inconvenient.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 27, 2022)

Appliances…we’re mostly Bosch folk, but for no great reason other than it has always done us fine.  We‘ve been quoted for Zanussi appliances of which we have little experience.  They look fine and the price is right…but I would welcome thoughts on Zanussi - ovens, fridge freezer, induction hob etc.


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## KenL (Jul 27, 2022)

We've had Zanussi fridge and freezer for 14 years. Still going strong.


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## bobmac (Jul 27, 2022)

Don't forget lighting.
A run of wifi led lights under and over the wall cabinets linked to Alexa/ Google home work a treat.


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## chellie (Jul 27, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Appliances…we’re mostly Bosch folk, but for no great reason other than it has always done us fine.  We‘ve been quoted for Zanussi appliances of which we have little experience.  They look fine and the price is right…but I would welcome thoughts on Zanussi - ovens, fridge freezer, induction hob etc.
		
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Which has the longest and best guarantee.


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## GB72 (Jul 27, 2022)

chellie said:



			Which has the longest and best guarantee.
		
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I do not worry so much about that any more as I always have a policy in place to cover the repairs to the main kitchen appliances as they are not expensive. My issue has been with what brands can be repaired easily. May be simply heresay but I have head comments that Bosch are a nightmare to repair by anyone except a Bosch engineer.


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## chellie (Jul 27, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I do not worry so much about that any more as I always have a policy in place to cover the repairs to the main kitchen appliances as they are not expensive. My issue has been with what brands can be repaired easily. May be simply heresay but I have head comments that Bosch are a nightmare to repair by anyone except a Bosch engineer.
		
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Used to have a Bosch washer and we never used their engineer to repair.


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## GB72 (Jul 27, 2022)

chellie said:



			Used to have a Bosch washer and we never used their engineer to repair.
		
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It was my ftaher in law who had Bosch appliances in his rental properties and could never find anyone other than Bosch engineers who would repair them. Mind you, that could easily be him being not bothered to find a decent independent engineer.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 27, 2022)

bobmac said:



			Don't forget lighting.
A run of wifi led lights under and over the wall cabinets linked to Alexa/ Google home work a treat.
		
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Sounds cool but other than that what‘s the point of WiFi controlled lighting…?


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## bobmac (Jul 27, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sounds cool but other than that what‘s the point of WiFi controlled lighting…?
		
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You can control your lights with your voice.
Turn them off and on, change colour, change brightness etc


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## Mudball (Jul 27, 2022)

We may be in the market.. have heard great things about Howden, but not sure we can afford it.  We may end up with Wren simply because of the financing ...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 27, 2022)

bobmac said:



			You can control your lights with your voice.
Turn them off and on, change colour, change brightness etc
		
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hmmm...i suppose so...though not something we've ever thought we needed, and not sure we are colour changing folks.  But who knows, something to consider.


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## fundy (Jul 27, 2022)

Mudball said:



			We may be in the market.. have heard great things about Howden, but not sure we can afford it.  We may end up with Wren simply because of the financing ...
		
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get Howdens priced up and look to buy in the Autumn sale in Sept/Oct (cabinets at least)


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## chellie (Jul 27, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Appliances…we’re mostly Bosch folk, but for no great reason other than it has always done us fine.  We‘ve been quoted for Zanussi appliances of which we have little experience.  They look fine and the price is right…but I would welcome thoughts on Zanussi - ovens, fridge freezer, induction hob etc.
		
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Also, price them up yourselves.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2022)

GB72 said:



			I do not worry so much about that any more as I always have a policy in place to cover the repairs to the main kitchen appliances as they are not expensive. My issue has been with what brands can be repaired easily. *May be simply heresay but I have head comments that Bosch are a nightmare to repair by anyone except a Bosch engineer.*

Click to expand...

Thats just independant engineers being scared of them beacuse of the spares costs. The Bosch group (Bosch/Neff Siemens) are acutally one of the easiest to get spares for and freely give exploded views and part numbers. No one gives technical information, but spare part numbers and availability (in general) the BSH group or very good.
Zanussi used to be very good (I should know, I worked for there service side for 13 years), but I wouldnt be so keen to have them now.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 27, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Thats just independant engineers being scared of them beacuse of the spares costs. The Bosch group (Bosch/Neff Siemens) are acutally one of the easiest to get spares for and freely give exploded views and part numbers. No one gives technical information, but spare part numbers and availability (in general) the BSH group or very good.
Zanussi used to be very good (I should know, I worked for there service side for 13 years), but I wouldnt be so keen to have them now.
		
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My understanding is that Zanussi appliances are basically AEG without all the bells and whistles (that I wouldn’t use in any case)?  That said at the moment I’m looking at Bosch ovens and Zanussi induction hob and fridge freezer.  Bosch induction hob being a LOT more expensive and what’s in a basic 70:30 fridge:freezer that has me paying £100 or so more for a Bosch.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 27, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			My understanding is that Zanussi appliances are basically AEG without all the bells and whistles (that I wouldn’t use in any case)?  That said at the moment I’m looking at Bosch ovens and Zanussi induction hob and fridge freezer.  Bosch induction hob being a LOT more expensive and what’s in a basic 60:40 fridge:freezer that has me paying £100 or so more for a Bosch.
		
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Youre understanding is not quite there. Most AEG appliances are slightly posher and rebadged Zanussi appliances. Electrolux own both, but the Zanussi prodution line were more modern than AEG and so most production is Zanussi in origin, even if they now produce some in  China.
As regards your fridge freezer question, I would suggest quality of plastics, electronics and in my opinion design/layout is generally better in the BSH group. BSH are also one of the very few who do direct mounted decor doors as opposed to slding hinge systems. If I were to have an integrated fridge freezer (and I don't) I would want one with the best self closing and sprung hinges, and you cannot have that with slider mount doors where you rely on the spring tension of the cupboard door hinges to drive the decor door, appliance door and everything in it closed.
Its no different to why pay for a BMW when you can have a Dacia to do the very basic same things.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 27, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			My understanding is that Zanussi appliances are basically AEG without all the bells and whistles (that I wouldn’t use in any case)?  That said at the moment I’m looking at Bosch ovens and Zanussi induction hob and fridge freezer.  Bosch induction hob being a LOT more expensive and what’s in a basic 60:40 fridge:freezer that has me paying £100 or so more for a Bosch.
		
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We used Aeg ovens and induction hob and are very pleased and had no problems after 4 years.
We looked at lots of 60 /40 fridge freezers and decided on the Bosch even though it was dearer as the design and quality is much better.
For the kitchen we looked at Wicks, Wren, Howdens and Magnet.
Wicks design wasn't good and we're very pushy.
Wren gave the vibe of a fast selling sales operation  - although the showroom was very good with lots of choice.
Howdens were OK but you had to get your own builder. My experience with builders and kitchens is that they're not very good at finishing touches and generally a law unto themselves.
Magnet were very good in all aspects. It took us probably 6 months from first visit to decide. Not once did the designer we dealt with put us under any pressure or ask for the order. Every question we asked he had an answer or communicated at a later date.
After placing the order they sent the fitters round to survey. One of the questions I asked was how long would it take to complete, he replied straight away, "Seven working days".
I asked them to take the old kitchen out carefully as I was selling it on.
They arrived at 8am every morning and didn't stop working and didn't even want drinks.
I wanted one company that did everything and that's exactly what we got with Magnet, very pleased and would certainly use again.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 27, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			We used Aeg ovens and induction hob and are very pleased and had no problems after 4 years.
We looked at lots of 60 /40 fridge freezers and decided on the Bosch even though it was dearer as the design and quality is much better.
For the kitchen we looked at Wicks, Wren, Howdens and Magnet.
Wicks design wasn't good and we're very pushy.
Wren gave the vibe of a fast selling sales operation  - although the showroom was very good with lots of choice.
Howdens were OK but you had to get your own builder. My experience with builders and kitchens is that they're not very good at finishing touches and generally a law unto themselves.
Magnet were very good in all aspects. It took us probably 6 months from first visit to decide. Not once did the designer we dealt with put us under any pressure or ask for the order. Every question we asked he had an answer or communicated at a later date.
After placing the order they sent the fitters round to survey. One of the questions I asked was how long would it take to complete, he replied straight away, "Seven working days".
I asked them to take the old kitchen out carefully as I was selling it on.
They arrived at 8am every morning and didn't stop working and didn't even want drinks.
I wanted one company that did everything and that's exactly what we got with Magnet, very pleased and would certainly use again.
		
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Very interesting on suppliers.  Also interested to read that you sold on your existing one.  We are thinking we might use at least some of it at my MiLs, but we would only be able to use one or two units at hers so would be better to try and sell our existing (Magnet) one as it’s still pretty good condition.


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## Mudball (Aug 4, 2022)

If you have an empty space.. then this is the must have


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## Mudball (Sep 9, 2022)

Speaking to our builder... we may buy Howden via him.  He offers to pass down any discounts.   Does anyone know what kind of trade discounts/passthru do builders get on a Howden's kitchen for a 10k kitchen...  looking for order the magnitude rather than absolute figure.


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## fundy (Sep 9, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Speaking to our builder... we may buy Howden via him.  He offers to pass down any discounts.   Does anyone know what kind of trade discounts/passthru do builders get on a Howden's kitchen for a 10k kitchen...  looking for order the magnitude rather than absolute figure.
		
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Its not a fixed figure, they dont all get the same price and a lot of smoke and mirrors goes on! Their discounts tends to depend on how much business they do with Howdens and then how much they pass on to you and also what you buy (different parts of kitchens discounted differently etc). Also maybe more on offer with their big sale imminent

When we did the last kitchen (2-3 years ago) I think the offer ended up close to 50% off on the cupboards and units (we didnt have appliances/worktops etc on the quote) but we bought elsewhere, but have heard off people being offered more than that


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## larmen (Sep 9, 2022)

I saw an advert yesterday for Which magazine comparing the usual kitchen suppliers. It's behind a pay wall but might be interesting for anyone looking at the moment.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 9, 2022)

I've had two kitchens made and fitted in my houses by a local small company that design, make and fit.  Absolutely first class product and service while being surprisingly competitive prices.


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## chellie (Sep 9, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Speaking to our builder... we may buy Howden via him.  He offers to pass down any discounts.   Does anyone know what kind of trade discounts/passthru do builders get on a Howden's kitchen for a 10k kitchen...  looking for order the magnitude rather than absolute figure.
		
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Depends on how much discount the builder gets as Howdens offer different discount amounts to different builders.


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## Mudball (Sep 9, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I've had two kitchens made and fitted in my houses by a local small company that design, make and fit.  Absolutely first class product and service while being surprisingly competitive prices.
		
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I am sure there are a few around but finding them is hens teeth… only word of mouth possibly


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## CliveW (Sep 10, 2022)

Re Bosch kitchen appliances, I came home from the golf yesterday afternoon expecting mince and tatties for my tea, only to be greeted by my wife who was extremely rattled as she had inadvertently switched on the Child Lock on the hob and couldn't disable it. She said she had scoured the instruction book to try and find how to switch the thing off but couldn't make sense of it. It only took me a minute to point out that she was reading the instruction book for the oven!!! I did not make too much of an issue of it until after tea as if I had, my dinner would have been in the dog.


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## Mudball (Sep 11, 2022)

Spent about 2 hrs at Wren... decent walk around....    but all these lines and options... it is mind numbing... by the time we finished, i could not tell the difference between Ultra, Ultra Plus, Linea with Ultra handles ..... 
I think the key lines they have is Infinity Plus, Infinity and Supply only.   

She knew we are looking at Howdens.  So was hardselling that Howden quality is at the lower end of Wren... So the Supply and Infinity models.   There is no way to compare


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## BrianM (Sep 11, 2022)

Howdens are no way inferior to Wren.
DIY kitchens are excellent as well, but you need to make sure your measurements are spot on, unless you are Yorkshire based 😀


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## chellie (Sep 11, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Spent about 2 hrs at Wren... decent walk around....    but all these lines and options... it is mind numbing... by the time we finished, i could not tell the difference between Ultra, Ultra Plus, Linea with Ultra handles ..... 
I think the key lines they have is Infinity Plus, Infinity and Supply only.   

She knew we are looking at Howdens.  So was hardselling that Howden quality is at the lower end of Wren... So the Supply and Infinity models.   There is no way to compare
		
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That would make me not use Wren!


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## Piece (Sep 12, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Spent about 2 hrs at Wren... decent walk around....    but all these lines and options... it is mind numbing... by the time we finished, i could not tell the difference between Ultra, Ultra Plus, Linea with Ultra handles .....
I think the key lines they have is Infinity Plus, Infinity and Supply only.  

She knew we are looking at Howdens.  So was hardselling that Howden quality is at the lower end of Wren... So the Supply and Infinity models.   There is no way to compare
		
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Most kitchen fitters will vouch for Howdens over Wrens. This was certainly the view based on the research we did last year. 

Cost wise, Wrens v Howdens were similar. I made sure though we ordered the "hardware" from Howdens during their sale (which is coming up, I believe, in Oct??).

I also preferred Howdens in that we contracted our own builder based on previous work. Wrens, you get a contractor that may or may not be good.

10 month on and (touch wood), our Howdens kitchen is excellent, with no issues.


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## Mudball (Sep 12, 2022)

Anyone come across John Lewis doing fitted kitchens?  Never seen them before but it popped up in a thread.   
I am assuming it is JL quality so worth a look.


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## fundy (Sep 12, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Anyone come across John Lewis doing fitted kitchens?  Never seen them before but it popped up in a thread.  
I am assuming it is JL quality so worth a look.
		
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different price bracket to howdens/wren and quite limited options in some areas when we looked a few years ago, was kind of disappointed. also only available in a handful of their shops


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## BrianM (Sep 12, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Anyone come across John Lewis doing fitted kitchens?  Never seen them before but it popped up in a thread.  
I am assuming it is JL quality so worth a look.
		
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Id be slightly careful here, if things aren’t quite right, how easy is it to get replacement or different cabinets if required.
At least with Howdens you know it’s no hassle.


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## chellie (Sep 12, 2022)

fundy said:



			get Howdens priced up and look to buy in the Autumn sale in Sept/Oct (cabinets at least)
		
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A proper sale as well.


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## Jason.H (Sep 13, 2022)

I would not recommend Wren. I’ve known a few people who’ve had bad experiences with complete kitchen installations. Every time there has been missing items, trims etc which caused long delays.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Anyone come across John Lewis doing fitted kitchens?  Never seen them before but it popped up in a thread.  
I am assuming it is JL quality so worth a look.
		
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I've done work for JL on a couple of installations. Not cheap but excellent quality. Fantastic service too. If its within your budjet the  you wont be disappointed.

Only the bigger stores have a kitchen design team


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## BiMGuy (Sep 13, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Id be slightly careful here, if things aren’t quite right, how easy is it to get replacement or different cabinets if required.
At least with Howdens you know it’s no hassle.
		
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Very easy in my experience. We had a cabinet with the door hinged the wrong way and an end panel that was the wrong size. Both were replaced within 48hrs.

We also had an issue with the dishwasher door peeling at the top. Again, this was replaced immediately.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 13, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			I would not recommend Wren. I’ve known a few people who’ve had bad experiences with complete kitchen installations. Every time there has been missing items, trims etc which caused long delays.
		
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Wren only exist for 0% interest.


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## BrianM (Sep 13, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			Very easy in my experience. We had a cabinet with the door hinged the wrong way and an end panel that was the wrong size. Both were replaced within 48hrs.

We also had an issue with the dishwasher door peeling at the top. Again, this was replaced immediately.
		
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Thats good to hear, I’ve got no experience with John Lewis on kitchens.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2022)

I'll be going against the grain here but we got our kitchen from Wren in 2019. Mainly due to them being the only ones that had a style that HID liked. We went for the Infinity range of prebuilt cabinets. Delivered a week earlier than estimated with no damage or missing items. 

I can't comment on their installs as my mate (kitchen fitter/joiner) did the install and said that it was a breeze and that any issues that cropped up were caused by the crap build quality of the house and not the kitchen. 3 years on it still looks great and have had zero issues. 

We didn't use the 0% option so cannot comment on that either.


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## BiMGuy (Sep 13, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			I'll be going against the grain here but we got our kitchen from Wren in 2019. Mainly due to them being the only ones that had a style that HID liked. We went for the Infinity range of prebuilt cabinets. Delivered a week earlier than estimated with no damage or missing items.

I can't comment on their installs as my mate (kitchen fitter/joiner) did the install and said that it was a breeze and that any issues that cropped up were caused by the crap build quality of the house and not the kitchen. 3 years on it still looks great and have had zero issues.

We didn't use the 0% option so cannot comment on that either.
		
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I think at the Wren/DIY kitchens end of the scale cabinets are much the same, Magnet aren’t quite as good. The complaints I’ve heard about Wren and Magent have been about the fitting.


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## Piece (Sep 13, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			I'll be going against the grain here but we got our kitchen from Wren in 2019. Mainly due to them being the only ones that had a style that HID liked. We went for the Infinity range of prebuilt cabinets. Delivered a week earlier than estimated with no damage or missing items.

*I can't comment on their installs as my mate (kitchen fitter/joiner) did the install *and said that it was a breeze and that any issues that cropped up were caused by the crap build quality of the house and not the kitchen. 3 years on it still looks great and have had zero issues.

We didn't use the 0% option so cannot comment on that either.
		
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That's the bit with Wren is that customers are at the mercy of a fitting contractor they haven't vetted.

And as mentioned, the drip finance is a Wren selling point.


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## Mudball (Sep 13, 2022)

Stuart_C said:



			I've done work for JL on a couple of installations. Not cheap but excellent quality. Fantastic service too. *If its within your budjet the*  you wont be disappointed.

Only the bigger stores have a kitchen design team
		
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good to know..  any idea of what kind of budget are we talking about...  do they compete against the Wren/Magnet or are they the Smallbones/Poggehpol type high end.  The nearest kitchen service we have is the Kingston store - might be worth a visit
I am a big JL fan, and would like it if they are British made


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2022)

Piece said:



			That's the bit with Wren is that customers are at the mercy of a fitting contractor they haven't vetted.

And as mentioned, the drip finance is a Wren selling point.
		
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As I say, against the grain. But having looked at my mate's Howdens cabinets, they are the same particle board shell and MDF doors just in a different profile/colour-way. 

Finance, drip or otherwise was no selling point as we were cash customers. Style, colour and availability were selling points. 

But, against the anti-Wren grain.


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## Mudball (Sep 13, 2022)

GreiginFife said:



			As I say, against the grain. But having looked at my mate's Howdens cabinets, they are the same particle board shell and MDF doors just in a different profile/colour-way.

Finance, drip or otherwise was no selling point as we were cash customers. Style, colour and availability were selling points.

But, against the anti-Wren grain.
		
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I have a friend who went with Wren.  Very happy with them.  They had a bit of bad patch where cabinets were left in the driveway and fitters did not turn up.  So he had to get call up the Wren MD whose office then sorted it out.   With that as a distant memory, they have a lovely kitchen


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## HeftyHacker (Sep 13, 2022)

Our Wren kitchen turned up last year on time and without any parts missing. The room wasn't actually ready at the time so they held onto it for a further 2 weeks and were very good at keeping us updated with new delivery dates etc.

Contrary to what has been posted above we used our own fitter and he was very happy with what had been supplied and ease of fitting. Any issues he had were to do with walls not quite being square etc.

We also used the 0% finance which was no hassle.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 13, 2022)

BiMGuy said:



			I think at the Wren/DIY kitchens end of the scale cabinets are much the same, Magnet aren’t quite as good. The complaints I’ve heard about Wren and Magent have been about the fitting.
		
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Everybody's experience is different with kitchens. 
I had Magnet and the quality is first class, fitters were very good too. 
We wanted tall wall cabinets with no gap at the top. This was( to me) a real challenge because the end cupboard is curved, but they managed to fill with a curved pelmet. 
Fitters were first class too, they didn't stop all day and finished in the 7 working days that they promised at the survey. 

Nothing missing and jobs a good 'un!


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## Mudball (Sep 13, 2022)

Went down to Howdens today.. we have two equidistant from us.  At the first one, they have about 2 kitchens on display. No one was available to talk about kitchens. All doing their bits. 

So went to the other one. Very quiet there and got chatting to the guys. Their ‘designer’ was in. So exchanged some ideas. Given they are trade oriented, the are not as slick as Wren. 

Anong other things, I learnt that they have 3 types of kitchens material. Real wood, MDF and Chipboard. So it all comes down to what you choose and the budgets that you are trying to hit.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 13, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Went down to Howdens today.. we have two equidistant from us.  At the first one, they have about 2 kitchens on display. No one was available to talk about kitchens. All doing their bits.

So went to the other one. Very quiet there and got chatting to the guys. Their ‘designer’ was in. So exchanged some ideas. Given they are trade oriented, the are not as slick as Wren.

Anong other things, I learnt that they have 3 types of kitchens material. Real wood, MDF and Chipboard. So it all comes down to what you choose and the budgets that you are trying to hit.
		
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I'm afraid Howdens have been very unproactive in following up with us.  We had good initial contact and discussion but since then nothing much at all.  We are currently looking at Wren and Optiplan.  Good design experience had with both but the Optiplan designer seems very knowledgeable and full of ideas and thoughts and as they have brought their cost close to Wrens we are leaning their way.  Fitting we have no issues with as our builder has his own trusted fitters and he will liaise with the suppliers and make sure the fitters do a good job.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm afraid Howdens have been very unproactive in following up with us.  We had good initial contact and discussion but since then nothing much at all.  We are currently looking at Wren and Optiplan.  Good design experience had with both but the Optiplan designer seems very knowledgeable and full of ideas and thoughts and as they have brought their cost close to Wrens we are leaning their way.  Fitting we have no issues with as our builder has his own trusted fitters and he will liaise with the suppliers and make sure the fitters do a good job.
		
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It's all about the fitters!


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## Mudball (Sep 13, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm afraid Howdens have been very unproactive in following up with us.  We had good initial contact and discussion but since then nothing much at all.  We are currently looking at Wren and Optiplan.  Good design experience had with both but the Optiplan designer seems very knowledgeable and full of ideas and thoughts and as they have brought their cost close to Wrens we are leaning their way.  Fitting we have no issues with as our builder has his own trusted fitters and he will liaise with the suppliers and make sure the fitters do a good job.
		
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How is the Optiplan quality… we have a showroom in the area but never considered it


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## Blue in Munich (Sep 13, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Anyone come across John Lewis doing fitted kitchens?  Never seen them before but it popped up in a thread.  
I am assuming it is JL quality so worth a look.
		
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We have one, Mrs BiM and I are very pleased with it and the fitter they supplied.



Stuart_C said:



			I've done work for JL on a couple of installations. *Not cheap but excellent quality. Fantastic service too. *If its within your budjet the  you wont be disappointed.

Only the bigger stores have a kitchen design team
		
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This.

If you are going to Kingston, we think the designer, who was excellent, was called Martin.  Fitter was Olly.


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## chrisd (Sep 14, 2022)

We used Wren about 5 years ago. We were less than impressed with their layout design and very much did that job ourselves in the end. We used our own builder to do the fitting and there were a couple of minor issues but we couldn't fault Wren in putting them right. 5 years on I'd certainly consider Wren again, given that our local Howdens were pretty useless at the time.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 18, 2022)

Accepting this is a detail and personal choice question, we are a bit stuck about whether or not we should have a worktop upstand - that usually being the same material as the worktop itself.  So making it less about us, would you expect there to be an upstand or would you have one.  We look in brochures of our preferred supplier and few of their kitchens show an upstand, but in their showroom most do have an upstand.  Confused.


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## chellie (Sep 18, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Accepting this is a detail and personal choice question, we are a bit stuck about whether or not we should have a worktop upstand - that usually being the same material as the worktop itself.  So making it less about us, would you expect there to be an upstand or would you have one.  We look in brochures of our preferred supplier and few of their kitchens show an upstand, but in their showroom most do have an upstand.  Confused.
		
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Personal taste. We went for no upstand and tiles down to the worktop. Depends on worktop chosen I think.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 18, 2022)

Hodens fitted our kitchen about 20 years ago.
We replaced the doors and trims about 4 years ago and it looked brand new.
Frame is still solid, certainly recommend them.
On both occasions we used a local joiner who was good,


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## Golfmmad (Sep 18, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Accepting this is a detail and personal choice question, we are a bit stuck about whether or not we should have a worktop upstand - that usually being the same material as the worktop itself.  So making it less about us, would you expect there to be an upstand or would you have one.  We look in brochures of our preferred supplier and few of their kitchens show an upstand, but in their showroom most do have an upstand.  Confused.
		
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An upstand would be my choice every time. 
It's the finished look that is always there with an upstand. 
Tiling has the grout that cracks/ discolour after time. 
Paint or wallpaper is difficult to keep crisp and clean after continual wiping down. 

So up stands every time. 👍


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## BrianM (Sep 18, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			An upstand would be my choice every time.
It's the finished look that is always there with an upstand.
Tiling has the grout that cracks/ discolour after time.
Paint or wallpaper is difficult to keep crisp and clean after continual wiping down.

So up stands every time. 👍
		
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You need to get a decent tiler 😀


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## Mudball (Sep 19, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Accepting this is a detail and personal choice question, we are a bit stuck about whether or not we should have a worktop upstand - that usually being the same material as the worktop itself.  So making it less about us, would you expect there to be an upstand or would you have one.  We look in brochures of our preferred supplier and few of their kitchens show an upstand, but in their showroom most do have an upstand.  Confused.
		
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Personal choice and also depends on how big the space is and the colour of the walls around.  

We had the worktop as the upstand. Have seen tiles in showroom. Another one that caught attention this time is an antique/French mirror splashback .  Looks brilliant if it works with the rest of the room. (Of course can’t put behind hob). 
https://www.creoglass.co.uk/splashbacks/mirrored-splashbacks/antique-mirror-splashbacks


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## chellie (Sep 19, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Personal choice and also depends on how big the space is and the colour of the walls around.  

We had the worktop as the upstand. Have seen tiles in showroom. Another one that caught attention this time is an antique/French mirror splashback .  Looks brilliant if it works with the rest of the room. (Of course can’t put behind hob). 
https://www.creoglass.co.uk/splashbacks/mirrored-splashbacks/antique-mirror-splashbacks

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Oh that one would drive me mad. Looks faulty.


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## Mudball (Sep 19, 2022)

chellie said:



			Oh that one would drive me mad. Looks faulty.
		
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I thought so too… but having seen it in real life, it is not bad.  Though it is too bling for me


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## chellie (Sep 19, 2022)

Mudball said:



			I thought so too… but having seen it in real life, it is not bad.  Though it is too bling for me
		
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I'll stick with my grey glitter grout. Sparkly but subtle.


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## Bunkermagnet (Sep 19, 2022)

We have glass splashbacks, the backing colour being white with rainbow speccles in it. Upstands are ok, but they eat into the worktop depth and still have to have something meeting them to cover the wall.
Our kitchen is gloss white units with black quartz worktops with flake in them.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 19, 2022)

BrianM said:



			You need to get a decent tiler 😀
		
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It's not a decent tiler, the grout does discolour, no matter how good the tiler is, over time. 
With an upstand the adhesive used does not need any filling so it's a permanent join without any kind of filler needed.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 19, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It's not a decent tiler, the grout does discolour, no matter how good the tiler is, over time.
With an upstand the adhesive used does not need any filling so it's a permanent join without any kind of filler needed.
		
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…if upstand it would be 100mm upstand probably same quartz as the worktop - so light granite in look if not material…not sure how that would work as an upstand.  Other thing I’ve seen is worktop material used to provide worktop to underside of cabinets splashback along the full length of worktop.  Feels expensive.


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## BrianM (Sep 19, 2022)

Golfmmad said:



			It's not a decent tiler, the grout does discolour, no matter how good the tiler is, over time.
With an upstand the adhesive used does not need any filling so it's a permanent join without any kind of filler needed.
		
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I’ve never had grout discolouration in kitchens I’ve done for myself (6 Now)
Bathrooms (Showers) on the other hand are a pain after time.


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## BrianM (Sep 19, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			…if upstand it would be 100mm upstand probably same quartz as the worktop - so light granite in look if not material…not sure how that would work as an upstand.  Other thing I’ve seen is worktop material used to provide worktop to underside of cabinets splashback along the full length of worktop.  Feels expensive.
		
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We never went for the upstand but did get a Sill cut for the window to tie it in.


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## Golfmmad (Sep 19, 2022)

BrianM said:



			I’ve never had grout discolouration in kitchens I’ve done for myself (6 Now)
Bathrooms (Showers) on the other hand are a pain after time.
		
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That's good but I much prefer the neat finish an upstand provides. 
In my kitchen I have the splashback behind the hob in the same as the upstand. Although we don't get many splashes it's very easy to keep clean. Also used the same for window sill.


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## Mudball (Sep 28, 2022)

Has anyone got a Fisher & Paykal double draw dishwasher... they cost a fortune but I want to know if it is worth it.  (not a chance that I will go for it, but curious)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 19, 2022)

Looking like we are going to have to go down the recirculating route for our new extraction hood as the ducting from above cooker to outside may be too long and/or contorted for ducted extraction to work efficiently.

Any thoughts and/or recommendations on recirculating cooker hoods?  Any alternatives?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 23, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Looking like we are going to have to go down the recirculating route for our new extraction hood as the ducting from above cooker to outside may be too long and/or contorted for ducted extraction to work efficiently.

Any thoughts and/or recommendations on recirculating cooker hoods?  Any alternatives?
		
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Looks more and more like we might have to go down the recirculating route so any thoughts or advice much appreciated.

Separately.  We plan to have a carpenter build a ’Utility cupboard’ for standard side washing machine and a dryer stacked and want this to be solid with a proper door for sound baffling.   The space for it is tight front to back.  I’m thinking we just need the door to be able to close with a small gap for any vibration.  From wall to front face of door  I’m thinking 750mm will be sufficient for the machines plus the framing and door.  Thoughts.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 23, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Looks more and more like we might have to go down the recirculating route so any thoughts or advice much appreciated.

Separately.  We plan to have a carpenter build a ’Utility cupboard’ for standard side washing machine and a dryer stacked and want this to be solid with a proper door for sound baffling.   The space for it is tight front to back.  I’m thinking we just need the door to be able to close with a small gap for any vibration.  From wall to front face of door  I’m thinking 750mm will be sufficient for the machines plus the framing and door.  Thoughts.
		
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Is the 750 internal carcass or excluding including door?
Wheres the electric plugs, water inlet and waste plumbing?
Have you checked on the depth of new washers and condenser dryers?
Have you considered how they might be access if a repair is needed?
Being inside a carcass will make them noisier.


Where is your cooker hood going to be in relation to the outside wall?


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 23, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Has anyone got a Fisher & Paykal double draw dishwasher... they cost a fortune but I want to know if it is worth it.  (not a chance that I will go for it, but curious)
		
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Personally, I hate them. Buy a decent full size integrated one instead.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 23, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Is the 750 internal carcass or excluding including door?
Wheres the electric plugs, water inlet and waste plumbing?
Have you checked on the depth of new washers and condenser dryers?
Have you considered how they might be access if a repair is needed?
Being inside a carcass will make them noisier.


Where is your cooker hood going to be in relation to the outside wall?
		
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Will cogitate on these matters.

750mm was exterior size including door.  But I will make it what is necessary and sufficient.  We are using our current washing machine and drier and my 750mm was essentially a minimum exterior dimension back to front based upon their current installations.

Cooker hood…ducting run to external wall would be about 6m max with one right angle bend.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Will cogitate on these matters.

750mm was exterior size including door.  But I will make it what is necessary and sufficient.  We are using our current washing machine and drier and my 750mm was essentially a minimum exterior dimension back to front based upon their current installations.

Cooker hood…ducting run to external wall would be about 6m max with one right angle bend.
		
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Just keep in mind that machines have been getting deeper as people want greater capacity, and product ranges have shrunk alarmingly. A 750 deep unit externally, will now only leave you around 80mm for all services which sounds plenty but depending on where they are can leave you short and in trouble further down the road..


6m run for a hood is too much. Can you not put the hob and thus hood on an external wall?
Recirculation is possible with most, but you will probably need to replace the charcoal cartridge every 3 to 6 months, and they can be expensive …if you want good results.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 24, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Just keep in mind that machines have been getting deeper as people want greater capacity, and product ranges have shrunk alarmingly. A 750 deep unit externally, will now only leave you around 80mm for all services which sounds plenty but depending on where they are can leave you short and in trouble further down the road..


6m run for a hood is too much. Can you not put the hob and thus hood on an external wall?
Recirculation is possible with most, but you will probably need to replace the charcoal cartridge every 3 to 6 months, and they can be expensive …if you want good results.
		
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Makes me think we could duct to the side rather than the back…that way could be about 4m


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Makes me think we could duct to the side rather than the back…that way could be about 4m
		
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2 m is normally the most you want to run, however if you increase the duct size it would help mitigate that.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 24, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			2 m is normally the most you want to run, however if you increase the duct size it would help mitigate that.
		
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Are there such things as booster fans that can be installed in the duct to help things along...somehow connect to main hood switches...?


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## Fade and Die (Oct 24, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Are there such things as booster fans that can be installed in the duct to help things along...somehow connect to main hood switches...?
		
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Have a look at the Airflow Aventa Inline 150 https://www.airflow.com/products/aventa-in-line-range. Use the AIrflow calculators and it comes in as suitable http://www.airflowselectair.co.uk/Selection/

The prices on the Airflow site are list and can normally be bettered through a distributer.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 24, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Are there such things as booster fans that can be installed in the duct to help things along...somehow connect to main hood switches...?
		
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There are,but not quite what you’re wanting.
There are some that do hoods for external motors( Miele and Weston come to mind), but even then you are talking more about a commercial system (and cost).I used to have a single motor telescopic hood, but when I had a second consrvator it became obvious things would have to change as the exhaust was blowing out the wall straight at the window height and if they were open the exhaust filled the conservator. So I changed the telescopic SIemens for a Miele under cupboard type with twin motors. I then increased the hole through the wall to 6 in and ran galvanised ducting up the outside to an elbow then out to atmosphere. The total duct length is about 2.8 metres with a total of 3 elbows. Because it’s in 6 inch duct it mitigates the length and the air is blasted out with vengeance.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 24, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			There are,but not quite what you’re wanting.
There are some that do hoods for external motors( Miele and Weston come to mind), but even then you are talking more about a commercial system (and cost).I used to have a single motor telescopic hood, but when I had a second consrvator it became obvious things would have to change as the exhaust was blowing out the wall straight at the window height and if they were open the exhaust filled the conservator. So I changed the telescopic SIemens for a Miele under cupboard type with twin motors. I then increased the hole through the wall to 6 in and ran galvanised ducting up the outside to an elbow then out to atmosphere. The total duct length is about 2.8 metres with a total of 3 elbows. Because it’s in 6 inch duct it mitigates the length and the air is blasted out with vengeance.
		
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I shall have a discussion with my builder and kitchen fitter.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 15, 2022)

Getting towards the point of ordering appliances for our new kitchen. 

Anyone got any experience or knowledge of combination oven/grill/microwave.  It seems that these tend to not have a turntable for microwaving and that for some that is a problem. Indeed the AEG one we’ve been spec’s for has, in some places, poor reviews based upon that along…other places reviews are not so critical.  Confused.

If we go down a different route and choose to go free standing MW, any thoughts on putting it in one of the kitchen wall cupboards?


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 15, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Getting towards the point of ordering appliances for our new kitchen.

Anyone got any experience or knowledge of combination oven/grill/microwave.  It seems that these tend to not have a turntable for microwaving and that for some that is a problem. Indeed the AEG one we’ve been spec’s for has, in some places, poor reviews based upon that along…other places reviews are not so critical.  Confused.

If we go down a different route and choose to go free standing MW, any thoughts on putting it in one of the kitchen wall cupboards?
		
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Yes, plenty


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## BiMGuy (Nov 15, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Getting towards the point of ordering appliances for our new kitchen.

Anyone got any experience or knowledge of combination oven/grill/microwave.  It seems that these tend to not have a turntable for microwaving and that for some that is a problem. Indeed the AEG one we’ve been spec’s for has, in some places, poor reviews based upon that along…other places reviews are not so critical.  Confused.

If we go down a different route and choose to go free standing MW, any thoughts on putting it in one of the kitchen wall cupboards?
		
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We have a Neff one. It works perfectly well. Until you have used it as an oven, the the microwave is disabled until it cools. It’s not often a problem for us.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Getting towards the point of ordering appliances for our new kitchen.

Anyone got any experience or knowledge of combination oven/grill/microwave.  It seems that these tend to not have a turntable for microwaving and that for some that is a problem. Indeed the AEG one we’ve been spec’s for has, in some places, poor reviews based upon that along…other places reviews are not so critical.  Confused.

If we go down a different route and choose to go free standing MW, any thoughts on putting it in one of the kitchen wall cupboards?
		
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I find these poor reviews are from people who don't know how to use them because they are not used to them. Blame the tech rather than the fact it's user error


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 16, 2022)

On


pauljames87 said:



			I find these poor reviews are from people who don't know how to use them because they are not used to them. Blame the tech rather than the fact it's user error
		
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The main complaint seems to be the lack of a turntable for MW heating means you have to turn the dish during heating.  My experience is that most ready meals will tell me to uncover and stir half way through…well surely I’d simply then put it back in turned 🤔


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The main complaint seems to be the lack of a turntable for MW heating means you have to turn the dish during heating.  My experience is that most ready meals will tell me to uncover and stir half way through…well surely I’d simply then put it back in turned 🤔
		
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Yet with the flatbeds (which I have) you can fit so much more stuff in the microwave itself without it getting stuck ie big plates ..

Plus they are soooo much easier to clean.. just spray down no stupid turn table that falls out of place again and again


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## pauljames87 (Nov 16, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The combined standard oven/grill/microwave one (as you have?) specd for us…

https://www.johnlewis.com/aeg-kme52...VibbtCh1pPQroEAQYAyABEgIdXvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

…is expensive and the negative reviews (mostly about about no turntable) have put my Mrs off one, and that‘s a pain as it takes us down the route of stand-alone standard microwave plus integrated small oven with grill, and that might require a rethink of our kitchen layout, unless we can safely put the standalone mw in a cupboard.
		
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I'd get it and tell the wife to read the manual lol


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## Piece (Nov 17, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Getting towards the point of ordering appliances for our new kitchen.

Anyone got any experience or knowledge of combination oven/grill/microwave.  It seems that these tend to not have a turntable for microwaving and that for some that is a problem. Indeed the AEG one we’ve been spec’s for has, in some places, poor reviews based upon that along…other places reviews are not so critical.  Confused.

If we go down a different route and choose to go free standing MW, any thoughts on putting it in one of the kitchen wall cupboards?
		
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We went separate oven and separate built-in microwave (i.e. not on the worktop). Far easier imho.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 17, 2022)

Piece said:



			We went separate oven and separate built-in microwave (i.e. not on the worktop). Far easier imho.
		
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Separate small oven in addition to a main oven, plus built in MW? Or no small oven but main oven plus microwave?  And where’s your grill…?  Just doing a bot of canvassing of option.  We have a small oven with grill in our current standalone cooker, but I could count on one hand the number of times we have used the small oven.  So we are questioning our need for a 2nd oven- but where then a grill…🤔


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## D-S (Nov 17, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Separate small oven in addition to a main oven, plus built in MW? Or no small oven but main oven plus microwave?  And where’s your grill…?  Just doing a bot of canvassing of option.  We have a small oven with grill in our current standalone cooker, but I could count on one hand the number of times we have used the small oven.  So we are questioning our need for a 2nd oven- but where then a grill…🤔
		
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We went with built in Neff oven and a built in Neff microwave/grill. Always thought I might need a second oven but haven’t really felt the need except fo Christmas. Now our Ninja dual basket air fryer will give me many more options at Christmas and I’m glad we never went with the 2nd oven.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 17, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Separate small oven in addition to a main oven, plus built in MW? Or no small oven but main oven plus microwave?  And where’s your grill…?  Just doing a bot of canvassing of option.  We have a small oven with grill in our current standalone cooker, but I could count on one hand the number of times we have used the small oven.  So we are questioning our need for a 2nd oven- but where then a grill…🤔
		
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A single fan oven, (fan and grill) or multifunction oven (fan,grill, traditional, small grill ) and a combination microwave (mw, fan cooking, grill). Gives you a second small oven or grill if you need it plus the small fan oven would be cheaper to run than the big oven as smaller. Just be aware that most integrated combination microwaves are now rated more than 13A, so need to be hard wired on a relevant circuit, not the kitchen ring.
That would be my choice, as seen in my kitchen


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## KenL (Nov 17, 2022)

Who, other than a restaurant really needs 2 ovens? 🤷‍♂️


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## larmen (Nov 17, 2022)

KenL said:



			Who, other than a restaurant really needs 2 ovens? 🤷‍♂️
		
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Every 2 dishes that ever need to be ready at the same time bake on 2 totally separate temperatures. It’s the law, I think. ;-(


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## KenL (Nov 17, 2022)

Who, other than a restaurant really needs 2 ovens? 🤷‍♂️


larmen said:



			Every 2 dishes that ever need to be ready at the same time bake on 2 totally separate temperatures. It’s the law, I think. ;-(
		
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Totally separate or just slightly different? Any skill in the kitchen and timing would allow you to get by.

Oh, and folk spending a fortune on the likes of Neff are just snobs. 🤣


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 17, 2022)

KenL said:



			Who, other than a restaurant really needs 2 ovens? 🤷‍♂️

Totally separate or just slightly different? Any skill in the kitchen and timing would allow you to get by.

*Oh, and folk spending a fortune on the likes of Neff are just snobs*. 🤣
		
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Neff....snobs?? You have no concept.
I hope you play Slazenger irons and not Mizuno or Titleist


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## KenL (Nov 17, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Neff....snobs?? You have no concept.
I hope you play Slazenger irons and not Mizuno or Titleist

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🤣😂🤣


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## Piece (Nov 18, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Separate small oven in addition to a main oven, plus built in MW? Or no small oven but main oven plus microwave?  And where’s your grill…?  Just doing a bot of canvassing of option.  We have a small oven with grill in our current standalone cooker, but I could count on one hand the number of times we have used the small oven.  So we are questioning our need for a 2nd oven- but where then a grill…🤔
		
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We went with the biggest (decent) single oven, at 76L. This has a grill too. We have a totally separate built-in microwave. The only consideration, like @D-S, was not having a double or second oven. Do we miss not having a double oven? Only occasionally, in big events such as Xmas, Easter.


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## KenL (Nov 24, 2022)

Piece said:



			That's the bit with Wren is that customers are at the mercy of a fitting contractor they haven't vetted.

And as mentioned, the drip finance is a Wren selling point.
		
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But, with Wren you can just buy their units and get your own fitter, if you know one or find one. Not that easy.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 2, 2022)

Mudball said:



			How is the Optiplan quality… we have a showroom in the area but never considered it
		
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Well…its now non-existent as on Monday Optiplan went into administration.  Never recovered from pandemic closedown exacerbated now by cost-of-living crisis.

Pity that as we paid our deposit 6 weeks ago…that’s £2k I’m unlikely to see again as HMRC will as ever be #1 creditor.  So it’s off to Howdens we have trotted as our builder will get a good deal from them and our existing kitchen is a Howdens kitchen and it‘s held up very well (though we won’t be going down the route of Lamona appliances - more likely Neff).

But as frustrated and disappointed as we are about this there will be many customers much worse off than ourselves, who will have paid up all but a small retainer and may well have just been about to have their kitchen delivered for fitting - may even have had their existing one ripped out - all to be done for Christmas.  What a mare that would be.

And feel for the designer at our branch as a really nice and helpful guy, with young family and recently moved to a new house.  Never good to lose your job but terrible timing for them.


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## Mudball (Dec 2, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well…its now non-existent as on Monday Optiplan went into administration.  Never recovered from pandemic closedown exacerbated now by cost-of-living crisis.

Pity that as we paid our deposit 6 weeks ago…that’s £2k I’m unlikely to see again as HMRC will as ever be #1 creditor.  So it’s off to Howdens we have trotted as our builder will get a good deal from them and our existing kitchen is a Howdens kitchen and it‘s held up very well (though we won’t be going down the route of Lamona appliances - more likely Neff).

But as frustrated and disappointed as we are about this there will be many customers much worse off than ourselves, who will have paid up all but a small retainer and may well have just been about to have their kitchen delivered for fitting - may even have had their existing one ripped out - all to be done for Christmas.  What a mare that would be.

And feel for the designer at our branch as a really nice and helpful guy, with young family and recently moved to a new house.  Never good to lose your job but terrible timing for them.
		
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Sorry to hear… never a good thing to happen. Sad state of affairs at the mo… we shall overcome


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 5, 2022)

Mudball said:



			Sorry to hear… never a good thing to happen. Sad state of affairs at the mo… we shall overcome
		
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Need to see if I can get any of our deposit back through the chargeback route as we paid using our Mastercard debit card - don’t know if that’s possible. We should have used a credit card as we do for all bigger purchases where there is a risk of cancellation or loss, but we just never thought to do that as we did not imagine for a moment that Optiplan would go bust.

But as mentioned, we will cope with losing some money…coping with losing your livelihood in these times is another matter.


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## chrisd (Dec 5, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well…its now non-existent as on Monday Optiplan went into administration.  Never recovered from pandemic closedown exacerbated now by cost-of-living crisis.

Pity that as we paid our deposit 6 weeks ago…that’s £2k I’m unlikely to see again as HMRC will as ever be #1 creditor.  So it’s off to Howdens we have trotted as our builder will get a good deal from them and our existing kitchen is a Howdens kitchen and it‘s held up very well (though we won’t be going down the route of Lamona appliances - more likely Neff).

But as frustrated and disappointed as we are about this there will be many customers much worse off than ourselves, who will have paid up all but a small retainer and may well have just been about to have their kitchen delivered for fitting - may even have had their existing one ripped out - all to be done for Christmas.  What a mare that would be.

And feel for the designer at our branch as a really nice and helpful guy, with young family and recently moved to a new house.  Never good to lose your job but terrible timing for them.
		
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Not good news but if you paid your deposit by credit card  you can claim it back from them


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 5, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Not good news but if you paid your deposit by credit card  you can claim it back from them
		
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Didn’t pay by credit card but by my mastercard debit card and I am not sure if that has the same customer legal protections as a credit card.


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## chrisd (Dec 5, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Didn’t pay by credit card but by my mastercard debit card and I am not sure if that has the same customer legal protections as a credit card.
		
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Ask the bank to do a chargeback  - but I wouldn't hang about


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 5, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Ask the bank to do a chargeback  - but I wouldn't hang about
		
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Done…👍


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 30, 2022)

chrisd said:



			Ask the bank to do a chargeback  - but I wouldn't hang about
		
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Email from bank/Mastercard this morning, and deposit has been refunded in full.  

However they have advised that further info from the Optiplan Administrators might change things - I guess they need the Administrators to confirm that my claim is genuine.  The bank advises that if I don’t hear further from them by 28.02.23 then the refund will not be taken back.  But a big result 👍


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## chrisd (Dec 30, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Email from bank/Mastercard this morning, and deposit has been refunded in full. 

However they have advised that further info from the Optiplan Administrators might change things - I guess they need the Administrators to confirm that my claim is genuine.  The bank advises that if I don’t hear further from them by 28.02.23 then the refund will not be taken back.  But a big result 👍
		
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That's really good news.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 30, 2022)

chrisd said:



			That's really good news.
		
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…and thank you sir! 👍

And a lesson learned by me about my rights…even when using my (MasterCard) Debit Card - are all Debit Cards now MasterCard - maybe it’s the ‘chargeback’ scheme that makes the difference and not whether it is MasterCard.


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## chrisd (Dec 30, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			…and thank you sir! 👍

And a lesson learned by me about my rights…even when using my (MasterCard) Debit Card - are all Debit Cards now MasterCard - maybe it’s the ‘chargeback’ scheme that makes the difference and not whether it is MasterCard.
		
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This is how I understand it

"A chargeback (otherwise known as a dispute) is a way for your bank that issued your card to reclaim money from the retailer’s bank when you do not get the goods or services you paid for, including if the retailer or supplier has gone out of business."

I guess you were lucky that there was a way for the bank to grab the money back.  It's always more safe with over £100 paid by credit card then there's no danger of not getting your money back


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 31, 2022)

Was looking at kitchens recently. We’re moving and want to upgrade, all I want to do right now is find a price list for units so that I can see if my budget will work. Seems no one gives basic carcass price lists, we have to go sit down with a designer to get a cost. A complete waste of time for them and us when all I need right now is a basic idea.

Anyone know where I can get a cupboard unit price list from?


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## BrianM (Dec 31, 2022)

need_my_wedge said:



			Was looking at kitchens recently. We’re moving and want to upgrade, all I want to do right now is find a price list for units so that I can see if my budget will work. Seems no one gives basic carcass price lists, we have to go sit down with a designer to get a cost. A complete waste of time for them and us when all I need right now is a basic idea.

Anyone know where I can get a cupboard unit price list from?
		
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Try DIY Kitchens, you design your own and get a price.


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## yandabrown (Dec 31, 2022)

need_my_wedge said:



			Was looking at kitchens recently. We’re moving and want to upgrade, all I want to do right now is find a price list for units so that I can see if my budget will work. Seems no one gives basic carcass price lists, we have to go sit down with a designer to get a cost. A complete waste of time for them and us when all I need right now is a basic idea.

Anyone know where I can get a cupboard unit price list from?
		
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Have you looked at IKEA? Ours is 15 years old and still going strong.


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

need_my_wedge said:



			Was looking at kitchens recently. We’re moving and want to upgrade, all I want to do right now is find a price list for units so that I can see if my budget will work. Seems no one gives basic carcass price lists, we have to go sit down with a designer to get a cost. A complete waste of time for them and us when all I need right now is a basic idea.

Anyone know where I can get a cupboard unit price list from?
		
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Spent 2 hours yesterday sitting down with a designer and the process is so frustrating as they dont like to reveal unit by unit prices and hide everything behind various sale discounts etc

What I would say is if you are redoing the whole kitchen then the units cost doesnt have to be that expensive and isnt actually that big a proportion of the works when you take into account worktops, appliances, fitting, flooring, electrics, plumbing etc and they are probably harder to budget for than the units

If you go to someone like Wren they will quote you a rough price based on how many units you want


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## chellie (Dec 31, 2022)

need_my_wedge said:



			Was looking at kitchens recently. We’re moving and want to upgrade, all I want to do right now is find a price list for units so that I can see if my budget will work. Seems no one gives basic carcass price lists, we have to go sit down with a designer to get a cost. A complete waste of time for them and us when all I need right now is a basic idea.

Anyone know where I can get a cupboard unit price list from?
		
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Wickes, IKEA?


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			Spent 2 hours yesterday sitting down with a designer and the process is so frustrating as they dont like to reveal unit by unit prices and hide everything behind various sale discounts etc
		
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That’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid for now. Just want to know if I can afford a sit down 🥴🤔


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## fundy (Dec 31, 2022)

need_my_wedge said:



			That’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid for now. Just want to know if I can afford a sit down 🥴🤔
		
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Not sure if this will help but as a guide

Supply only:
The cheapest quote to start was just under 6k, for that we got: 6 base units(500 or 600), 800 pan drawers, tall oven housing, 800 larder cupboard, integrated dishwasher, single oven, induction hob, laminate worktops (approx 5m in 3 pieces), sink and tap

It got progressively worse from there (upgrading doors, adding internals to corner units, a breakfast bar and quartz worktops) took it to just above 10k

Both excluded fitting


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 31, 2022)

fundy said:



			Not sure if this will help but as a guide

Supply only:
The cheapest quote to start was just under 6k, for that we got: 6 base units(500 or 600), 800 pan drawers, tall oven housing, 800 larder cupboard, integrated dishwasher, single oven, induction hob, laminate worktops (approx 5m in 3 pieces), sink and tap

It got progressively worse from there (upgrading doors, adding internals to corner units, a breakfast bar and quartz worktops) took it to just above 10k

Both excluded fitting
		
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Just went for a walk around Wren. Kitchen design come a long way since we last did one, pleasantly surprised at the cost estimates too. Have to wait until we move now but at least have an idea of what to expect.


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## fundy (Jan 3, 2023)

Anyone ever used/bought from Kutchenhaus?


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## KenL (Jan 3, 2023)

fundy said:



			Not sure if this will help but as a guide

Supply only:
The cheapest quote to start was just under 6k, for that we got: 6 base units(500 or 600), 800 pan drawers, tall oven housing, 800 larder cupboard, integrated dishwasher, single oven, induction hob, laminate worktops (approx 5m in 3 pieces), sink and tap

It got progressively worse from there (upgrading doors, adding internals to corner units, a breakfast bar and quartz worktops) took it to just above 10k

Both excluded fitting
		
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Any idea of fitting cost?


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