# working out distances on knock down punch shots



## turkish (Apr 13, 2017)

Over the winter had a course of group lessons and in one of them the pro was showing us playing into a strong headwind knockdown low punchy type shots with an abbreviated follow through.

Last night the winds were strong so had a chance to practice them after largely forgetting what I had been taught and they were great in terms of direction (could hit straighter than a full shot  ) but found trying to judge distances quite hard.

is it just a case of gaining experience and trial and error on how much more or less the ball will go or is there a rule of thumb on this? I was often bang on target but overshooting and undershooting distances.

For example on one shot was 163 yards from pin, felt like a 3 club wind so took my 3 iron (usually carries about 195), ball further back, gripped down, abbreviated follow through, straight at the pin- hit back fringe and bounced through another 10 yards so was a good 20 yards away from pin.


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## patricks148 (Apr 13, 2017)

turkish said:



			Over the winter had a course of group lessons and in one of them the pro was showing us playing into a strong headwind knockdown low punchy type shots with an abbreviated follow through.

Last night the winds were strong so had a chance to practice them after largely forgetting what I had been taught and they were great in terms of direction (could hit straighter than a full shot  ) but found trying to judge distances quite hard.

is it just a case of gaining experience and trial and error on how much more or less the ball will go or is there a rule of thumb on this? I was often bang on target but overshooting and undershooting distances.

For example on one shot was 163 yards from pin, felt like a 3 club wind so took my 3 iron (usually carries about 195), ball further back, gripped down, abbreviated follow through, straight at the pin- hit back fringe and bounced through another 10 yards so was a good 20 yards away from pin.
		
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why not just hit a normal 3 iron shot if its a 3 club wind? 

are you not supposed to take more club, with a punch shot , hit it lower with less spin


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## turkish (Apr 13, 2017)

Because the wind was that strong I wanted to try and keep it under it?


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## patricks148 (Apr 13, 2017)

turkish said:



			Because the wind was that strong I wanted to try and keep it under it?
		
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i play in windy conditions most of the time and only time i play to keep the ball down with a punch is 150 yards or less, but mostly 100. 

if its a 3 club wind i take at least 3 or 4 clubs more.


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## Region3 (Apr 13, 2017)

For me it's generally 2 clubs (or 20yds) shorter than a full shot.

The tricky thing is judging how much an x club wind will affect it, because the reason for choosing that shot is that the wind will have less of an effect!

Example. I have 8 iron distance to the target in a 3 club wind, so that's a 5 iron punch shot. But the wind will affect the lower shot less so I might hit 6 iron.

It's one of those things you need to learn through experience. Ideally seeing how far they go compared to a full swing with no wind about or on a launch monitor.


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## turkish (Apr 13, 2017)

Region3 said:



			For me it's generally 2 clubs (or 20yds) shorter than a full shot.

The tricky thing is judging how much an x club wind will affect it, because the reason for choosing that shot is that the wind will have less of an effect!

Example. I have 8 iron distance to the target in a 3 club wind, so that's a 5 iron punch shot. But the wind will affect the lower shot less so I might hit 6 iron.

It's one of those things you need to learn through experience. Ideally seeing how far they go compared to a full swing with no wind about or on a launch monitor.
		
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Thanks that gives me a good starting point to work with... will also look at using LM to record a few clubs.

might have been a honeymoon period but I was hitting them that straight it's something I might consider without wind if there's no danger at the front- albeit I know it will run a fair bit more


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## patricks148 (Apr 13, 2017)

Region3 said:



			For me it's generally 2 clubs (or 20yds) shorter than a full shot.

The tricky thing is judging how much an x club wind will affect it, because the reason for choosing that shot is that the wind will have less of an effect!

Example. I have 8 iron distance to the target in a 3 club wind, so that's a 5 iron punch shot. But the wind will affect the lower shot less so I might hit 6 iron.

It's one of those things you need to learn through experience. Ideally seeing how far they go compared to a full swing with no wind about or on a launch monitor.
		
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my experience is different to yours then, myself and anyone i play with always hits more club to punch the ball not less.

but what do i know i only play on a windy links course:rofl::rofl:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 13, 2017)

Trial and error......simple as that. There is no formula I'm afraid.


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## turkish (Apr 13, 2017)

But he's hitting more club ;-) instead of an 8 iron he would hit a 5 iron into a 3 club wind but with the low punch he's expecting the wind to make less a difference so takes the 6 instead of a normal high 5- if that makes sense?


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## patricks148 (Apr 13, 2017)

turkish said:



			But he's hitting more club ;-) instead of an 8 iron he would hit a 5 iron into a 3 club wind but with the low punch he's expecting the wind to make less a difference so takes the 6 instead of a normal high 5- if that makes sense?
		
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i don't agree, most of what people call punch shots and knock downs are hit short distances and have more spin, its the spin thats the killer with strong wind. 

what i use and guys i know hit low runners with more club, soft hands, so not generating any spin, the ball won't carry that far but runs.

if you are trying to carry 165 yards you need to get the ball a certain distance in the air, punching it is going to generate spin, prob more than a normal shot would with more club..


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## Region3 (Apr 13, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			my experience is different to yours then, myself and anyone i play with always hits more club to punch the ball not less.

but what do i know i only play on a windy links course:rofl::rofl:
		
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What did I write to suggest I'd hit less club for a punch shot into the wind?


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## Region3 (Apr 13, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			i don't agree, most of what people call punch shots and knock downs are hit short distances and have more spin, its the spin thats the killer with strong wind. 

what i use and guys i know hit low runners with more club, soft hands, so not generating any spin, the ball won't carry that far but runs.

if you are trying to carry 165 yards you need to get the ball a certain distance in the air, punching it is going to generate spin, prob more than a normal shot would with more club..
		
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So a 30Â° club hitting the ball at 70mph will generate more spin than a 38Â° club at 80mph?

Or am I misunderstanding what you're calling a knockdown/punch?


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## patricks148 (Apr 13, 2017)

Region3 said:



			What did I write to suggest I'd hit less club for a punch shot into the wind?
		
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a 3 club wind, a 5 iron so hit a 6?



Region3 said:



			So a 30Â° club hitting the ball at 70mph will generate more spin than a 38Â° club at 80mph?


Or am I misunderstanding what you're calling a knockdown/punch?
		
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All the talk of punch shots and knockdowns are described as ball back weight forwards and hit down on the ball, this will generate spin allowing the ball to check up.  all the descriptions i've seen of this are for short shots, so essentially chips, which is fine. Ive never seen anyone hit a long punch shot over 160 yards, not mortals (non tour pro) anyway


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## Region3 (Apr 13, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			a 3 club wind, a 5 iron so hit a 6?

All the talk of punch shots and knockdowns are described as ball back weight forwards and hit down on the ball, this will generate spin allowing the ball to check up.  all the descriptions i've seen of this are for short shots, so essentially chips, which is fine. Ive never seen anyone hit a long punch shot over 160 yards, not mortals (non tour pro) anyway
		
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I take everything back and just be thankful that I play on a course with trees and stuff away from the coast. No wonder I never do any good on real golf courses.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 13, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			Ive never seen anyone hit a long punch shot over 160 yards, not mortals (non tour pro) anyway
		
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I'm surprised at this to be honest considering most of your golf is played on links. It's a shot I use a lot when playing into the wind.


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## patricks148 (Apr 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I'm surprised at this to be honest considering most of your golf is played on links. It's a shot I use a lot when playing into the wind.
		
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nope, either just hit more club or a low runner for those shots. i only know one guys that plays a sort of punch, but he does that for all shots even down wind:rofl:

its all links, hardly ever play parkland TBH


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I'm surprised at this to be honest considering most of your golf is played on links. It's a shot I use a lot when playing into the wind.
		
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Whenever I play Links it's also a shot I find having to hit a number of time - 4/5irons 150/160 low piercing into the wind then 3/4 irons from 170/180 

As Gary said - not a perfect science just finding what fits


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## jusme (Apr 13, 2017)

Is this not a language barrier issue going on. I consider punch shots and knockdown shots as very different types of shots. 

Knockdown shot is for into a strong wind where I play with very soft hands and partial swing/sawn of follow through - not easy for me to describe. idea is for a low shot with little spin that will roll out almost as much as it carries. 

A punched shot is very different in my world and used only for shorter distances 120 in. It is a little lower than a full shot but it generates a lot of back spin. Hit aggressively of the back foot with a sawn of finish. PW at most but used mostly for SW and GW


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## J5MBF (Apr 13, 2017)

jusme said:



			Is this not a language barrier issue going on. I consider punch shots and knockdown shots as very different types of shots. 

Knockdown shot is for into a strong wind where I play with very soft hands and partial swing/sawn of follow through - not easy for me to describe. idea is for a low shot with little spin that will roll out almost as much as it carries. 

A punched shot is very different in my world and used only for shorter distances 120 in. It is a little lower than a full shot but it generates a lot of back spin. Hit aggressively of the back foot with a sawn of finish. PW at most but used mostly for SW and GW
		
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I see it the opposite to you. Descriptions I'd copy, just tag them the other way round. In my language a punch shot would be the bigger distance shot fired under the wind, 2-3 clubs more than required.

A knockdown would be that of a closed(ish) face, lower trajectory than normal, but big spin to check and almost stop with little roll? 

It's a funny old game isn't it.


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## Lump (Apr 13, 2017)

J5MBF said:



			I see it the opposite to you. Descriptions I'd copy, just tag them the other way round. In my language a punch shot would be the bigger distance shot fired under the wind, 2-3 clubs more than required.

A knockdown would be that of a closed(ish) face, lower trajectory than normal, but big spin to check and almost stop with little roll? 

It's a funny old game isn't it.
		
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Im with you. 
Punch is full swing with more club
Knockdown is same club but lower flight.


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## jusme (Apr 13, 2017)

J5MBF said:



			I see it the opposite to you. Descriptions I'd copy, just tag them the other way round. In my language a punch shot would be the bigger distance shot fired under the wind, 2-3 clubs more than required.

A knockdown would be that of a closed(ish) face, lower trajectory than normal, but big spin to check and almost stop with little roll? 

It's a funny old game isn't it.
		
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Don't mind as much that you or others see it as the opposite. What I see more on forums are the two terms being used as if they are the same thing


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## J5MBF (Apr 13, 2017)

jusme said:



			Don't mind as much that you or others see it as the opposite. What I see more on forums are the two terms being used as if they are the same thing
		
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Wasn't a dig if it read that way. I agree, they are not the same shot IMO, two different types.


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## bobmac (Apr 14, 2017)

To control the ball into wind I....

Hold the club near the bottom of the grip
Ball in the centre of a narrow stance
Swing half way back and half way through GENTLY.
Use 2 extra clubs so a 6 iron for a normal 8 iron shot
3 extra when its blowing your hat off


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## turkish (Apr 14, 2017)

bobmac said:



			To control the ball into wind I....

Hold the club near the bottom of the grip
Ball in the centre of a narrow stance
Swing half way back and half way through GENTLY.
Use 2 extra clubs so a 6 iron for a normal 8 iron shot
3 extra when its blowing your hat off
		
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Apologies for my poor vocabulary but this was the shot I meant 

PS I still don't think a punch shot is a high spinny one... neither does Looooook!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVHlJoSS9l4&list=PL2845430916F319FD&index=11

I'd say my follow through is shorter than his and I keep my hands lower throughout.


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## patricks148 (Apr 14, 2017)

turkish said:



			Apologies for my poor vocabulary but this was the shot I meant 

PS I still don't think a punch shot is a high spinny one... neither does Looooook!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVHlJoSS9l4&list=PL2845430916F319FD&index=11

I'd say my follow through is shorter than his and I keep my hands lower throughout.
		
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no one mentioned high


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## NWJocko (Apr 14, 2017)

Region3 said:



			I take everything back and just be thankful that I play on a course with trees and stuff away from the coast. *No wonder I never do any good on real golf courses*.
		
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Like 36 hole opens on links courses you mean........ 

You're explanation is exactly how I do it, although tbh I tend not to do it from very far out and just hit a "normal" shot with a few clubs more.

Then miss the green, chip on and 3 putt usually :rofl:


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