# Trump and NATO



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2018)

Seems like the running Trump thread has been closed...and so on Trump and his attitude to NATO

Democratic Senator Jack Reed yesterday having to teach the PotUS on the importance of NATO, given Trump's recent tweets and pronouncements on NATO whilst on the way to the NATO summit, and Reed goes on to emphasise the threat that Russia poses - noting that Putin is *not* "and I quote - fine" (Reeds words)

And on the issue of NATO funding Reed tells the PotUS.

NATO - _"is in the US national interest and not because other countries are paying us for protection.  We must look at the whole picture of allied contributions to the NATO operations" _- and Reed then goes on to debunk Trump's complaints in respect of the contributions of the NATO, and recognises the NATO concerns over Trump having a 1:1 with Putin.

The motion offering strong support for NATO was passed by the Senate by 97 votes to 2 (with the two being the notional libertarians who dislike all such things).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJDTcAH0f-g

Meanwhile back in Europe European Council president Donald Tusk rebukes Trump

_â€œDear America, appreciate your allies,â€ European Council President Donald Tusk said Tuesday. â€œAfter all, you donâ€™t have that many.â€ _

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/donald-tusk-donald-trump-eu-nato_us_5b457fcae4b0c523e263ee99


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## User62651 (Jul 11, 2018)

Not sure how strong NATO really is, has it ever been truly tested?

When we fought the Argies in Falklands I recall the French were selling them exocet missiles. No real loyalty, it's always about money.

If the Russians steamed into Estonia for example (which is a NATO member) as they did Crimea and east Ukraine, would NATO escalate to a full out war to drive them out? I have my doubts.

We do have the financial advantage of course, between US/Canada/Germany/France/UK/Netherlands and rest etc our combined defence spending dwarves what the Russians can spend. Putin has just 1 aircraft carrier...............but a shedload of nuclear missiles and a lot of manpower!

Trump is possibly correct that it's too easy to just lean on America to sort out any problems, all member states should at least meet the 2% of GDP defence spending I think for parity.

NATO is at the mercy of whatever the US president at the time thinks though. That's a weakness.


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## IanM (Jul 11, 2018)

Good points, most members are ok with it, as long as the US keeps paying.  

Not sure what right Tusk has to speak, isn't he just the chair of the Regional Chamber of Commerce?  (see Brexit threads, the EU hasn't taken any sovereignty, it's just about trade!  )

I always laugh when I hear about objections to the "put America first" strapline â€¦. I'd have thought that was line-one of the Job Description of any head of state.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 11, 2018)

NATO has run it's course......â€¦USA and 'America First' says it all, they will not get involved in any conflict involving European countries.
There should be a standing EU Army, similar to NATO [but without the Americans] to support European interests.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Not sure how strong NATO really is, has it ever been truly tested?

When we fought the Argies in Falklands I recall the French were selling them exocet missiles. No real loyalty, it's always about money.

If the Russians steamed into Estonia for example (which is a NATO member) as they did Crimea and east Ukraine, would NATO escalate to a full out war to drive them out? I have my doubts.

We do have the financial advantage of course, between US/Canada/Germany/France/UK/Netherlands and rest etc our combined defence spending dwarves what the Russians can spend. Putin has just 1 aircraft carrier...............but a shedload of nuclear missiles and a lot of manpower!

Trump is possibly correct that it's too easy to just lean on America to sort out any problems, all member states should at least meet the 2% of GDP defence spending I think for parity.

NATO is at the mercy of whatever the US president at the time thinks though. That's a weakness.
		
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NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States - and servicemen from NATO  allies of the USA lost their lives on the back of that.

The words of the Democratic party Senator and the vote in the Senate do not suggest a _huge _weakness to the whims of the President.

Many US commentators and the Senator also pointed out how the US's allies contribute in other ways to NATO other than through the 2% target - the fact that European countries will host and support US military installations was not lost on the Senator.  As he said...

_"...is in the US national interest and not because other countries are paying us for protection. We must look at the whole picture of allied contributions to the NATO operations"
_


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			NATO has run it's course......â€¦USA and 'America First' says it all, they will not get involved in any conflict involving European countries.
There should be a standing EU Army, similar to NATO [but without the Americans] to support European interests.
		
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Which might seem logical but is an anathema to anti-EU ideologues and many who voted to leave the EU - even though at the same time they will be supporting Trump's view of NATO and it's non-value.  I believe this sort of thinking is called cognitive dissonance.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 11, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			NATO has run it's course......â€¦USA and 'America First' says it all, they will not get involved in any conflict involving European countries.
There should be a standing EU Army, similar to NATO [but without the Americans] to support European interests.
		
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ER without stating the obvious, the people of this fine nation voted to get out of the EU. So how do you envisage us being in summat ( an eu army ) when we want to get out of it.


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## Khamelion (Jul 11, 2018)

I think I heard this correct, but Trump was having a whine about why the Americans pay in to NATO to support the alliance, when countries like Germany get a lot of their oil from Russia, his argument being we are paying to support and keep you safe, yet you spend money to buy Oil from effectively someone who is our enemy or would be enemy. 

If that is correct he has a point,

but

If for arguments sake the EU countries in NATO rejected anything from Russia and their member states and chose to buy from solely NATO countries instead, isn't he just going to start the cold war all over again. The armed forces growing in size along with border tensions.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2018)

Khamelion said:



			I think I heard this correct, but Trump was having a whine about why the Americans pay in to NATO to support the alliance, when countries like Germany get a lot of their oil from Russia, his argument being we are paying to support and keep you safe, yet you spend money to buy Oil from effectively someone who is our enemy or would be enemy. 

If that is correct he has a point,

but

If for arguments sake the EU countries in NATO rejected anything from Russia and their member states and chose to buy from solely NATO countries instead, isn't he just going to start the cold war all over again. The armed forces growing in size along with border tensions.
		
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...and I am a little baffled that he would want Germany upping it's military game significantly in the face of resurgent right wing / fascist feelings in Germany and his wish to see the EU disintegrate....


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 11, 2018)

I don't recall a thread along similar lines when Obama criticised the other NATO members for not meeting the 2% target and when he called them complacent for failing to meet the target - not a whimper then about all the other contributions European countries make to NATO. Or when he suggested that if Greece during the height of its' problems could meet the target then other countries should as well. Or when he called European states "free riders" for wanting America to act in North Africa without as he put it putting any "skin in the game".

But I guess that because it's Trump some people aren't happy. Looks almost as though it's a case of playing the man not the ball, something which is very prevalent on the forum in general.


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## MadAdey (Jul 11, 2018)

I was watching CNN last night and they spoke to an economic expert. HE showed how what the US is spending is saving them even more money. The ability to use military establishments across Europe and the support that is given by other NATO countries is key to the US having strategic control around the world. How will they get their fast jets across to the middle east? I know from being in the RAF the cost that was involved in transiting Tornado F3s in and out of the Falklands.

When the USAF move aircraft they use air to air refueling from their tankers based in Europe. You can't even get to the UK from the US without refueling at least once, let alone to the middle east, that would take probably 3 in flight refuels. Now they would have to start paying other Air Forces to help them which would cost them a fortune.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2018)

ColchesterFC said:



			I don't recall a thread along similar lines when Obama criticised the other NATO members for not meeting the 2% target and when he called them complacent for failing to meet the target - not a whimper then about all the other contributions European countries make to NATO. Or when he suggested that if Greece during the height of its' problems could meet the target then other countries should as well. Or when he called European states "free riders" for wanting America to act in North Africa without as he put it putting any "skin in the game".

But I guess that because it's Trump some people aren't happy. Looks almost as though it's a case of playing the man not the ball, something which is very prevalent on the forum in general.
		
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Because Obama was never as critical and dismissive of NATO as a concept as Trump is.  For Trump it's not all about the money - it's about the very existence of NATO - an organisation only in place as far as he is concerned so that Europe can shirk it's responsibilities and rely upon the US for it's defence.

The Senator was scathing of Trump.  And the Senate voted 97:2 in support of the motion.


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## drdel (Jul 11, 2018)

Germany and others have had a free ride . Brexit and Nato are fundamentally different arrangements. 

Trump is correct.


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## MadAdey (Jul 11, 2018)

drdel said:



			Germany and others have had a free ride . Brexit and Nato are fundamentally different arrangements. 

Trump is correct.
		
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 Correct about what? Other NATO members  not put the same amount of money in, but they give the US free use of military establishments across Europe giving them the ability to have a strategic frontline this side of the world. Without that what will they do??


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## Beezerk (Jul 11, 2018)

Canâ€™t believe it, I made some absolutely world changing comments in that Trump thread and its gone now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2018)

Beezerk said:



			Canâ€™t believe it, I made some absolutely world changing comments in that Trump thread and its gone now.
		
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I believe you were quoted in Brussels today ðŸ˜. Gone but not forgotten.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

Tashyboy said:



			ER without stating the obvious, the people of this fine nation voted to get out of the EU. So how do you envisage us being in summat ( an eu army ) when we want to get out of it.
		
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I have absolutely no idea how the UK defence will work once we get our country back.
Without the USA and the EU I would say that we will be quite lonely.


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## Imurg (Jul 12, 2018)

So....you have to be in the EU to be part of NATO......??
When did USA join the EU?
Why should anything change?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have absolutely no idea how the UK defence will work once we get our country back.
Without the USA and the EU I would say that we will be quite lonely.
		
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EU has nothing to do with the UK defence 

The UK defence will carry on working as it does  within NATO


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

MadAdey said:



			Correct about what? Other NATO members  not put the same amount of money in, but they give the US free use of military establishments across Europe giving them the ability to have a strategic frontline this side of the world. Without that what will they do??
		
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exactly what the Senator was saying - a view supported 97:2 by US Senators.  I struggle that so many in the UK seem to disagree with the US Senate....

What the Senate is worried about is the way that Trump was ignoring many of the other ways European countries support the US in NATO - and using that deliberate ignorance/misunderstanding to focus on the 2% and use that to undermine NATO - making the US's NATO allies worry about the sanctity and inviolability of Article 5 as he sucks up to the despot Putin.

And Trump's cultish supporters in the US hear Trump criticise and undermine NATO and individual countries, and these supporters believe his rhetoric and builds up resentment with NATO.  What Trump says is the truth - regardless of whether or not it actually is - and ignoring the fact that - by his own words and out of his own mouth - Trump is a PROVEN liar - someone who truly cannot be trusted.  And the Senate recognise and share concerns with their NATO allies over what Trump will be saying 1:1 with Putin.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

His post NATO summit press conference this morning - worth listening to - full of deflection, evasion (mostly when he clearly didn't understand the question), dissembling, exaggeration, disingenuousness, self-promotion and more than one wee porky...

And before damning that assessment, note that the US SoS (Pompeo) immediately tried to change and temper expectations in respect of Trump's claim that deals were done around NATO funding - by telling the press that there was much still to be done.  

And half hour after the close of the press conference President Macron has stated that absolutely no new deals or commitments were made in discussions with Trump over defense spending - despite Trump claims that such agreement by NATO countries had been given.  And despite all the bluster he spouts to his constituency in the US, Trump never mentioned once in the meetings anything whatsoever about the US leaving NATO (which is a good thing - but not the hard line that Trump puts to his constituency in the US).

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...emergency-session-amid-trump-demands-56532145

Of course the Trump cultists in the states will take Trump's word as gospel (I really shouldn't use religious allusions in respect of Trump as there is very little Christian about Trump; his words and his actions); and by taking his words as the truth - those of Macron will have to be lies and evidence of NATO sneakiness, untrustworthiness and shirking of responsibilities.


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have absolutely no idea how the UK defence will work once we get our country back.
Without the USA and the EU I would say that we will be quite lonely.
		
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Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding....  Some members of NATO are not in the EU.  Some members of the EU are not in NATO.  By Jove!

Still thinking someone has two GM accounts


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

IanM said:



			Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding....  Some members of NATO are not in the EU.  Some members of the EU are not in NATO.  By Jove!

Still thinking someone has two GM accounts 

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I think that it is Trump who might believe the the EU countries are those that comprise the European countries of NATO.  By his various statements (though confused and contradictory) Trump it would seem would like to see the EU broken up on the grounds that that would undermine the integrity of NATO.


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States - and servicemen from NATO  allies of the USA lost their lives on the back of that.

The words of the Democratic party Senator and the vote in the Senate do not suggest a _huge _weakness to the whims of the President.

Many US commentators and the Senator also pointed out how the US's allies contribute in other ways to NATO other than through the 2% target - the fact that European countries will host and support US military installations was not lost on the Senator.  As he said...

_"...is in the US national interest and not because other countries are paying us for protection. We must look at the whole picture of allied contributions to the NATO operations"
_

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Perhaps the Senator needs reminding that the host nation charges for those military installations and the revenue that the bases bought into the local area is massive. One area where there was a major British installation is now suffering with many of its service providers closing down


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Which might seem logical but is an anathema to anti-EU ideologues and many who voted to leave the EU - even though at the same time they will be supporting Trump's view of NATO and it's non-value.  I believe this sort of thinking is called cognitive dissonance.
		
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Now I get it, yet another thread started so you spout off about the EU. I thought this thread was about Trumpmand NATO.


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

MadAdey said:



			Correct about what? Other NATO members  not put the same amount of money in, but they give the US free use of military establishments across Europe giving them the ability to have a strategic frontline this side of the world. Without that what will they do??
		
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Im not sure where you got this idea but it's not true.


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have absolutely no idea how the UK defence will work once we get our country back.
Without the USA and the EU I would say that we will be quite lonely.
		
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Thats no surprise, you seem to have little knowledge about NATO either. One of the largest NATO force within NATO so what has NATO to do with the EU.


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

IanM said:



			Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding...
Still thinking someone has two GM accounts 

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Been fairly obvious for over a year now.


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I think that it is Trump who might believe the the EU countries are those that comprise the European countries of NATO.  By his various statements (though confused and contradictory) Trump it would seem would like to see the EU broken up on the grounds that that would undermine the integrity of NATO.
		
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Which is exactly what would happen if the EU had its own army.  If you have any knowledge of military matters cast your mind back to what happened on the Yugoslavian pinninsula when NATO troops were under the UN and in the end ditched the blue berets and operated under NATO rules of engagement.


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Been fairly obvious for over a year now.
		
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,,can mods confirm from IP Address?


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

IanM said:



			,,can mods confirm from IP Address?
		
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We use IP checker on arrse but I'm not sure if mods here have the same facility and it can be misleading.


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Thats no surprise, you seem to have little knowledge about NATO either. One of the largest NATO force within NATO so what has NATO to do with the EU.
		
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Eh? What? I have no idea what you are trying to say!

Not that I'm disagreeing...DfT seems to be under the illusion that it's the EU that 'contributes' to UK's defence. NATO and EU are quite disparate organisations! In fact, the apparent aim of some in the EU heirarchy to create/beef up a/the standing military force is, imo, an argument to break away from it!


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

IanM said:



			Different thread, same repetition and lack of understanding....  Some members of NATO are not in the EU.  Some members of the EU are not in NATO.  By Jove!

*Still thinking someone has two GM accounts *

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Old Skier said:



			Been fairly obvious for over a year now.
		
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Which 2 users are you suggesting are really the same?

If it's SILH and DfT, then (as I only bet on certainties) I'm calling BS on this assertion and am prepared to bet (my usual/standard tenner!) that you are wrong! Are you up for it? Proceeds going to H4H of course!

Same applies to Old Skier btw!


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Which 2 users are you suggesting are really the same?

If it's SILH and DfT, then (as I only bet on certainties) I'm prepared to bet (my usual/standard tenner!) that you are wrong! Are you up for it? Proceeds going to H4H of course!

Same applies to Old Skier btw!
		
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Maybe they are different people, one is Tusk, the other Junker!


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...  I believe this sort of thinking is called cognitive dissonance.
		
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I believe it's actually the exercise of independent thinking!

CD is more the unease which the likes of Trump oriented 'USA First' supporters could well have (if they actually thought properly about it) when they realise that the 'cheap labour' from Central America, that supports a significant chunk of the US economy, is about to disappear!


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Eh? What? I have no idea what you are trying to say!

Not that I'm disagreeing...DfT seems to be under the illusion that it's the EU that 'contributes' to UK's defence. NATO and EU are quite disparate organisations! In fact, the apparent aim of some in the EU heirarchy to create/beef up a/the standing military force is, imo, an argument to break away from it!
		
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Proplems on the site with IPad as words get deleted on some don't get printed 

Insert Turkey and Canada wherever


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Which 2 users are you suggesting are really the same?

If it's SILH and DfT, then (as I only bet on certainties) I'm calling BS on this assertion and am prepared to bet (my usual/standard tenner!) that you are wrong! Are you up for it? Proceeds going to H4H of course!

Same applies to Old Skier btw!
		
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And why would you immediately think of just those two.


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

IanM said:



			Maybe they are different people, one is Tusk, the other Junker!  

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So... wimping out of the (SILH/DfT being the same person) bet?

'Keyboard warriors', the pair of you!


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			And why would you immediately think of just those two.
		
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Because those are the 2 you continually seem to be 'attacking'! Otherwise, please explain which 2 you are refering to!

If it is those 2, then I suggest you either put up or apologise (to both) for the inference! 

Are you up for the bet? Or do you not have the courage of your typing!


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Because those are the 2 you continually seem to be 'attacking'! Otherwise, please explain which 2 you are refering to!

If it is those 2, then I suggest you either put up or apologise (to both) for the inference! 

Are you up for the bet? Or do you not have the courage of your typing!
		
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You inferred not me so you once again get it all wrong.

You mentioned those two so perhaps it is you who think they may be sockpuppet accounts.

What is this "attacking" you go on about. Get the nurse to up your meds.


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			You inferred not me so you once again get it all wrong.

You mentioned those two *so perhaps it is you who think they may be sockpuppet accounts*.

What is this "attacking" you go on about. Get the nurse to up your meds.
		
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Wrong! I'm absolutely certain that they are separate folk! 

It's you who seem to be implying they are the same!

So, if not them, then who WERE you impying were the same?

If it WAS them that you thought were/are the same person, then surely you have the courage of you typing! Or are you simply a 'Keyboard Warrior'!


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Wrong! I'm absolutely certain that they are separate folk! 

It's you who seem to be implying they are the same!

So, if not them, then who WERE you impying were the same?

If it WAS them that you thought were/are the same person, then surely you have the courage of you typing! Or are you simply a 'Keyboard Warrior'!
		
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Never needed to be a keyboard warrior, I leave that sort of thing to the likes of you.

Please point out were I inferred/implied/ said who had dual accounts.

Actual don't bother, just send your money to the H4H acc


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Never needed to be a keyboard warrior, I leave that sort of thing to the likes of you.

Please point out were I inferred/implied/ said who had dual accounts.

Actual don't bother, just send your money to the H4H acc
		
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See post 28! 

So who did you mean by that post?

Remember, I've always qualified my suspicion of who you (both of you) meant by 'if it's....'!

Are you accepting the (qualified) bet then? Or are you just a Keyboard Warrior like I thought! Btw. Aren't (maybe 'Weren't') you actually something to do with the Armed Forces? Unimpressive if that's the case!


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## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			See post 28! 

So who did you mean by that post?

Remember, I've always qualified my suspicion of who you (both of you) meant by 'if it's....'!

Are you accepting the (qualified) bet then? Or are you just a Keyboard Warrior like I thought! Btw. Aren't (maybe 'Weren't') you actually something to do with the Armed Forces? Unimpressive if that's the case!
		
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Perhaps instead of using brackets you could explain what you mean. Or, as your post count suggests, you are more the kind of person that hides behind the keyboard.

I implied in my posts that for over a year I suspect that people have more than one account on here, have you knowledge or information that can dispel those suspicions.


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Perhaps instead of using brackets you could explain what you mean. Or, as your post count suggests, you are more the kind of person that hides behind the keyboard.

I implied in my posts that for over a year I suspect that people have more than one account on here, have you knowledge or information that can dispel those suspicions.
		
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Stop the obfuscating and answer the question!


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Perhaps instead of using brackets you could explain what you mean. Or, as your post count suggests, you are more the kind of person that hides behind the keyboard.

I implied in my posts that for over a year I suspect that people have more than one account on here, have you knowledge or information that can dispel those suspicions.
		
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If anyone has any suspicions regarding duplicate accounts then feel free to pm me in confidence
I can however confirm that SILH, Foxy and Doon are all separate people so stop wasting your time in this direction

back on track now please


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

I'll bet the two noisy keyboard warriors a tenner that Hogan and myself are different [like minded] people. [Scottish tenner mind ]


Goodness me some folk seem to be very angry today, I wonder why.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Eh? What? I have no idea what you are trying to say!

Not that I'm disagreeing...DfT seems to be under the illusion that it's the EU that 'contributes' to UK's defence. NATO and EU are quite disparate organisations! In fact, the apparent aim of some in the EU heirarchy to create/beef up a/the standing military force is, imo, an argument to break away from it!
		
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Fair do's I should have said Europe. Not sure where the EU 'contributing to UK's defence' came from though.
I strongly believe that a standing European army is one of the answers to world peace.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

Foxholer said:



			Wrong! I'm absolutely certain that they are separate folk! 

It's you who seem to be implying they are the same!

So, if not them, then who WERE you impying were the same?

If it WAS them that you thought were/are the same person, then surely you have the courage of you typing! Or are you simply a 'Keyboard Warrior'!
		
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EoAHdwGBvU


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

PhilTheFragger said:



			If anyone has any suspicions regarding duplicate accounts then feel free to pm me in confidence
I can however confirm that SILH, Foxy and Doon are all separate people so stop wasting your time in this direction

back on track now please
		
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Utterly bizarre - that there could not be more than one person holding opinions different from those held by what I might consider the Gadarene Gang ...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I'll bet the two noisy keyboard warriors a tenner that Hogan and myself are different [like minded] people. [Scottish tenner mind ]


Goodness me some folk seem to be very angry today, I wonder why.
		
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Get off the chair Doon - my turn at the keyboard...


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Fair do's I should have said Europe. Not sure where the EU 'contributing to UK's defence' came from though.
*I strongly believe that a standing European army is one of the answers to world peace.*

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Notwithstanding that NATO really covers that.....

There are far too many questions that a full-blown European, separate from Nato, army raises to ever consider it! Of greatest importance is who would actually gives it orders - and how would that body be held responsible/accountable for its actions!

Btw. There are some specific EU controlled, generally specialist, armed forces already, but certainly not a full blown army!

Having appointed folk running the beauracracy that is the EU is, to me, not ideal but bearable. Having the same/equivalent folk deciding who to take military action against is beyond the pale!


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Utterly bizarre - that there could not be more than one person holding opinions different from those held by what I might consider the Gadarene Gang ...

Click to expand...

Isnâ€™t that when your leg goes bad and they have to chop it off?
Askin for Doon as he says he doesnâ€™t know either ðŸ˜‚


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I strongly believe that a standing European army is one of the answers to world peace.
		
Click to expand...

As the UN's army is one of Peace Keeping are you suggesting that it should be binned and a European Army would provide a better service.  Perhaps before you answer you should see where UN Forces are currently committed under the guise of Peace Keeping.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Isnâ€™t that when your leg goes bad and they have to chop it off?
Askin for Doon as he says he doesnâ€™t know either ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

Matthew 8.28-36, Mark 5.1-20 and Luke 8.20-34


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			As the UN's army is one of Peace Keeping are you suggesting that it should be binned and a European Army would provide a better service.  Perhaps before you answer you should see where UN Forces are currently committed under the guise of Peace Keeping.
		
Click to expand...

Like NATO the UN is now yesterdays news......it never really worked in the first place.
There is now a new world order USA/China/India/Europe/Russia/Turkey and Central Africa.
It is all about population and power.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Isnâ€™t that when your leg goes bad and they have to chop it off?
Askin for Doon as he says he doesnâ€™t know either ðŸ˜‚
		
Click to expand...

No, but I was smart enough to looked it up on Google.:lol:


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Get off the chair Doon - my turn at the keyboard...

Click to expand...

Righty O Victor...oh sorry Hogan


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Like NATO the UN is now yesterdays news......it never really worked in the first place.
There is now a new world order USA/China/India/Europe/Russia/Turkey and Central Africa.
It is all about population and power.
		
Click to expand...

The UN has never been able to call on countries to support its peace keeping missions in the same way that NATO at times has not had the support of its community. 

Why would you feel that a European Army would be any more successful in getting its members to fully support any of its commitments.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			The UN has never been able to call on countries to support its peace keeping missions in the same way that NATO at times has not had the support of its community. 

Why would you feel that a European Army would be any more successful in getting its members to fully support any of its commitments.
		
Click to expand...

Because the command structure would be entirely different.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Because the command structure would be entirely different.
		
Click to expand...

Ok, in what way.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Like NATO the UN is now yesterdays news......it never really worked in the first place.
There is now a new world order USA/China/India/Europe/Russia/Turkey and Central Africa.
It is all about population and power.
		
Click to expand...

Can you explain how NATO has never really worked ?! Or even the UN - you Iâ€™m guessing have never had any involvement in anything in regards both organisations.

And can you explain how an European Army would work any different


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			Ok, in what way.
		
Click to expand...

Better than the UN.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you explain how NATO has never really worked ?! Or even the UN - you Iâ€™m guessing have never had any involvement in anything in regards both organisations.

And can you explain how an European Army would work any different
		
Click to expand...

To be fair and balanced. The UN failed miserably in the former Yugoslavia and are not doing to well in Africa, but its due manly to the quality of its military assists but they can only work with the countries that volunteer to assist.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you explain how NATO has never really worked ?! Or even the UN - you Iâ€™m guessing have never had any involvement in anything in regards both organisations.

And can you explain how an European Army would work any different
		
Click to expand...

A European army would work similar to the Allies did in WW2. Many nations working for the common good.
NATO was/is the USA's puppet.
UN had to respond to many stakeholders.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Better than the UN.
		
Click to expand...

You said NATO and the UN so I am keen on what you think the structure will be as you seem to think it will be different.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			You said NATO and the UN so I am keen on what you think the structure will be as you seem to think it will be different.
		
Click to expand...

Read earlier posts.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A European army would work similar to the Allies did in WW2. Many nations working for the common good.
NATO was/is the USA's puppet.
UN had to respond to many stakeholders.
		
Click to expand...

You obviously have no idea how it works. What would happen when a member state of the force didn't agree to a deployment and withdrew its manpower and assets.

Where are the extra troops and equipment going to come from.


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2018)

Oh for a SAM missile...

Fairly certain the Donald has just passed overhead on his way to Chequers...


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 12, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Oh for a SAM missile...

Fairly certain the Donald has just passed overhead on his way to Chequers...
		
Click to expand...

You would need 2 as both choppers fly and you never know which one he's in


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 12, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			You would need 2 as both choppers fly and you never know which one he's in 

Click to expand...

To sound pedantic - but not really - an Osprey is not a helicopter - it is a rotary wing aircraft - a different way of doing VTOL.


----------



## Sweep (Jul 13, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			You would need 2 as both choppers fly and you never know which one he's in 

Click to expand...

And he hasnâ€™t gone to Chequers yet ðŸ˜€


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 13, 2018)

Sweep said:



			And he hasnâ€™t gone to Chequers yet ðŸ˜€
		
Click to expand...

Well, Blenheim then...

Similar flightpath for where he or the flight passed overhead...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Trump Unhinged*

Well The Sun interview and his various words yesterday - as one US commentator called it - 'Trump Unhinged'

And one of the funniest - but possibly more disturbing - lack of understanding was his thinking on England

_"You don't hear the word 'England' as much as you should. I miss the name England," he said.
"I think England is a beautiful name. And you don't hear it very much anymore. But (the football team at the World Cup is) playing as 'England.' That's very interesting. That's good," _

Of course this thinking goes to explaining why - in his post NATO speech - Trump talked of the United Kingdom, Scotland and Ireland (he has property in Scotland and Ireland - did you  know that - well you weren't listening  )

His interview by the Sun is unbelievable - just rammed full of blatant and evidenced lies; comments on UK immigration that are verging on racist; unacceptable and hugely misinformed criticism of the London Mayor; and damaging and inappropriate comments undermining Theresa May....

Except it would be unbelievable were it not Trump.

And yet - yet - still some will say he is the bees knees.  They will accept being lied to...


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 13, 2018)

Well an Osprey and at least 2 other choppers have just passed a few miles from me - probably passing over Staines. Diversions?

Btw. My understanding was that there were 3 potential AF1s and a bit of a 'Three Shell Scam' exercise was carried out on take-off. Or have I been reading too many Andy McNab books!


----------



## bobmac (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

It looks like this section of the forum has become your own personal soap box.
Do we really need another Trump/political thread?

Why don't you join a political forum and chat there and keep this forum for golf talk?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



bobmac said:



			It looks like this section of the forum has become your own personal soap box.
Do we really need another Trump/political thread?

Why don't you join a political forum and chat there and keep this forum for golf talk?
		
Click to expand...

Because this is an Out of Bounds board specifically for discussions such as this.  And when our 'most special relationship' is with a blatant and disrespectful liar whose best buddy is a despot who would see the UK, Europe and NATO in chaos - then I think we should discuss him and the implications for the UK - especially a UK out of the EU.

Why do you have an issue with that?  Please don't tell me that you are a Trump admirer...or that you actually don't care about what he says and does...


----------



## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



bobmac said:



			It looks like this section of the forum has become your own personal soap box.
Do we really need another Trump/political thread?

Why don't you join a political forum and chat there and keep this forum for golf talk?
		
Click to expand...

This particular part of the forum isn't for golf talk! 

I enjoy these threads.


----------



## Sweep (Jul 13, 2018)

Funny really. I doubt any former US Presidentâ€™s visit to the UK ever attracted as much interest. It all probably feeds his ego.


----------



## bobmac (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because this is an Out of Bounds board specifically for discussions such as this.
		
Click to expand...

Really?
 I had no idea
:thup:


----------



## Sweep (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because this is an Out of Bounds board specifically for discussions such as this.  And when our 'most special relationship' is with a blatant and disrespectful liar whose best buddy is a despot who would see the UK, Europe and NATO in chaos - then I think we should discuss him and the implications for the UK - especially a UK out of the EU.
		
Click to expand...

I take it you donâ€™t like him then?

Who is his best buddy?


----------



## Dasit (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because this is an Out of Bounds board specifically for discussions such as this.  And when our 'most special relationship' is with a blatant and disrespectful liar whose best buddy is a despot who would see the UK, Europe and NATO in chaos - then I think we should discuss him and the implications for the UK - especially a UK out of the EU.

Why do you have an issue with that?  Please don't tell me that you are a Trump admirer...or that you actually don't care about what he says and does...
		
Click to expand...




Who is his best buddy?

Where do you come up with this stuff.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Dasit said:



			Who is his best buddy?

Where do you come up with this stuff.
		
Click to expand...

Who do you think his best buddy is...?

Even if the only thing you knew about Trump was from his words at the WH as he was leaving for Europe then you'll know who he is most comfortable with - and you'll also know who he is looking forward to a 1:1 with.


----------



## Sweep (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Who do you think his best buddy is...?

Even if the only thing you knew about Trump was from his words at the WH as he was leaving for Europe then you'll know who he is most comfortable with - and you'll also know who he is looking forward to a 1:1 with.
		
Click to expand...

Oh, I didnâ€™t realise you were being sarcastic.
I actually thought you meant Sir Nige. At least he has spent time a reasonable time with him. I thought despot was a bit harsh.
I was actually going through all the people I knew you didnâ€™t like. I donâ€™t think you have started a thread on Putin. You might want to consider it.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

There is nothing written in The Sun ever worth reading or believing.
Theres a certain amount of irony that you choose to highlight someone who has accused all the press of fake news giving an interview with a publication proven to have lied for its own sake....and you believe whatâ€™s supposedly said.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Bunkermagnet said:



			There is nothing written in The Sun ever worth reading or believing.
Theres a certain amount of irony that you choose to highlight someone who has accused all the press of fake news giving an interview with a publication proven to have lied for its own sake....and you believe whatâ€™s supposedly said.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, The Sun reporter recorded the interview and clips were being played this morning on the tv. I don't read the Sun but each key point from the paper was verified by his words on tv.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Lord Tyrion said:



			To be fair, The Sun reporter recorded the interview and clips were being played this morning on the tv. I don't read the Sun but each key point from the paper was verified by his words on tv.
		
Click to expand...

Even so, nothing from the Sun can be trusted. Especially since they are the only source.


----------



## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

On the TV they've put the caption up saying "opinion is divided" in the UK on Trump. Is it?? I thought everyone unanimously thought he was a total prat.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Orikoru said:



			On the TV they've put the caption up saying "opinion is divided" in the UK on Trump. Is it?? I thought everyone unanimously thought he was a total prat.
		
Click to expand...

It is divided 98% - 2%, yes, there are some out there who like him. I assume they didn't say equally divided


----------



## PieMan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

I think there are a number of people on this Forum that the word 'unhinged' could also be applied to.........


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

Trump is the master of planting sound bytes into the subconscious of the general public, he doesnâ€™t even have to prove some of the ludicrous things he comes out with, he just sits back and leaves the rest to the media, internet etc.
This latest one is a classic, totally pre meditated and probably with the goal of getting one of his stooges into Number 10. He really is quite clever in a snidey kind of way.


----------



## jim8flog (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

I never read the Sun.


----------



## jim8flog (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

I just look at the pictures


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

Trump thinks Mr B Johnson would make a great Prime Minister (thanks Donald says Mrs May) - well I suppose Johnson is as truthful, trustworthy and principled as Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Mhokzv-jw

oops...staying in -  not rejoining


----------



## Beezerk (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



jim8flog said:



			I never read the Sun.
		
Click to expand...

You donâ€™t need to, Murdochs media empire have made sure the essential sound bytes are everywhere.


----------



## Tashyboy (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



PieMan said:



			I think there are a number of people on this Forum that the word 'unhinged' could also be applied to.........  

Click to expand...

Hang on ave not written anything yet. &#128513;

Any man that says " if she cannot keep her husband happy, how can she keep America happy", Trump talking about Hilary has to be worth listening to.
He talks in riddles, gets his words IN a right tangle. Wonder if he's me dad. &#128563;
Anyway, he has started a trade war with China coz it is importing Billions more than than it takes back. China steals other countries ideas inc Americas.
Dont think he wants to disband NATO, he wants countries to pay there fair share.
He wants to look after his countries veterans.
he wants to create jobs in America.
He wants to cut illegal immigration.
He pulled out of a climate deal because it favours both China and India.

yup he does sound like a complete and utter tool.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Bunkermagnet said:



			Even so, nothing from the Sun can be trusted. Especially since they are the only source.
		
Click to expand...

Tom Newton Dunn, who did the interview, is often on Sky News Preview of the Papers and he actually seems a decent and honest journalist - albeit taking a very specific slant on matters political from a specific viewpoint.  

Listening to him this morning giving an account of the interview, he says that Trump was 'free-forming' and Newton Dunn could see that Trump's advisors present were pretty uncomfortable about it all.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Bunkermagnet said:



			There is nothing written in The Sun ever worth reading or believing.
Theres a certain amount of irony that you choose to highlight someone who has accused all the press of fake news giving an interview with a publication proven to have lied for its own sake....and you believe whatâ€™s supposedly said.
		
Click to expand...

Please God don't be going down the route of claiming that the Sun's reporting of the interview is Fake News - because it's all recorded!


----------



## Dasit (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Tom Newton Dunn, who did the interview, is often on Sky News Preview of the Papers and he actually seems a decent and honest journalist - albeit taking a very specific slant on matters political from a specific viewpoint.  

Listening to him this morning giving an account of the interview, he says that Trump was 'free-forming' and Newton Dunn could see that Trump's advisors present were pretty uncomfortable about it all.
		
Click to expand...

Do you ever wonder that these papers are desperate to get as much coverage as possible, so they going to say whatever they can about this exclusive interview to get maximum exposure.


Almost like you got suckered into it a bit? Even making ANOTHER thread so more exposure. Trump is Trump, pretty damn predictable, he "free-forms" all the time


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Bunkermagnet said:



			Even so, nothing from the Sun can be trusted. Especially since they are the only source.
		
Click to expand...

IT WAS RECORDED - you don't need to believe what Tom Newton Dunn has written or his account - you just need to listen to Trump's words


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

Trumpety Trump threads merged


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Orikoru said:



			On the TV they've put the caption up saying "opinion is divided" in the UK on Trump. Is it?? I thought everyone unanimously thought he was a total prat.
		
Click to expand...

It is indeed divided - with a recent opinion poll putting UK approval at 11% and disapproval at 67%...

Here's Lawrence O'Donnell (MSNBC) on the interview - as one of the contributors describes it - insane, insulting and incendiary 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmXx72e6mKo


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

I'd have thought you could describe Vlad as being his bessie mate... 
By all accounts he put the Donald into the White House and he's most definitely a despot...
Lot of blood on his hands...

Rather suspect there's many on this forum with an affinity with the Donald...
They'll be definitely echoing his outbursts about Sadiq and Jezza, for sure, come the autumn election...


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Please God don't be going down the route of claiming that the Sun's reporting of the interview is Fake News - because it's all recorded!
		
Click to expand...

And of course the Sun has no history of mkaing up stories for it's own agenda.......
In case you hadnt realised, recordings can be edited to say or sound what you like. 
Perhaps you love the Sun because they didnt dig into the Oxfam scandal like the serious broadsheets did.
And yes, Freddie Star did eat that hamster........it must be true as the Sun headlined it.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Bunkermagnet said:



			And of course the Sun has no history of mkaing up stories for it's own agenda.......
In case you hadnt realised, recordings can be edited to say or sound what you like. 
Perhaps you love the Sun because they didnt dig into the Oxfam scandal like the serious broadsheets did.
And yes, Freddie Star did eat that hamster........it must be true as the Sun headlined it.
		
Click to expand...

The interview was recorded. I repeat.  The interview was recorded. Excerpts of the interview have been released.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The interview was recorded. I repeat.  The interview was recorded. Excerpts of the interview have been released.
		
Click to expand...

And I repeat, you have no knowledge of how much editing went into it to say what you want it to say.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

Queenie rips off gloves and orders Windsor staff to burn them.

What a prize plum that man is.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



Bunkermagnet said:



			And I repeat, you have no knowledge of how much editing went into it to say what you want it to say.
		
Click to expand...

Oh for goodness sake. Have you listened to what he actually said.  His own words...

And his comments on immigrants - both in the interview and even in the press conference today - that immigrants don't add any value...frankly pretty disgraceful coming from anyone -  but coming from the President of the United States on a visit to the UK and a PotUS that has an immigrant mother...


----------



## JamesR (Jul 13, 2018)

Tashyboy said:



			Hang on ave not written anything yet. &#128513;

Any man that says " if she cannot keep her husband happy, how can she keep America happy", Trump talking about Hilary has to be worth listening to.
He talks in riddles, gets his words IN a right tangle. Wonder if he's me dad. &#128563;
Anyway, he has started a trade war with China coz it is importing Billions more than than it takes back. China steals other countries ideas inc Americas.
Dont think he wants to disband NATO, he wants countries to pay there fair share.
He wants to look after his countries veterans.
he wants to create jobs in America.
He wants to cut illegal immigration.
He pulled out of a climate deal because it favours both China and India.

yup he does sound like a complete and utter tool.
		
Click to expand...

I think that, when he says he wants to do those things, he actually means that he wants to make lots of money for himself out of the Presidency.


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 13, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			To sound pedantic - but not really - an Osprey is not a helicopter - it is a rotary wing aircraft - a different way of doing VTOL.
		
Click to expand...

And unless things have changed he flys in c/s Marine 1 two ac which aren't Osprey.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2018)

Trumps Caddy.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/img462-1.jpg


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			And unless things have changed he flys in c/s Marine 1 two ac which aren't Osprey.
		
Click to expand...

That's true - he didn't fly in an Osprey - I only thought he was as I saw some coverage of him flying into London (or to Chequers?) and there was just one Marine 1 helicopter plus a smaller helicopter and an Osprey - so I assumed he must have been in the Osprey. Which he wasn't - oops - sorry.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Trumps Caddy.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/img462-1.jpg

Click to expand...

Now - I know that we all have bad swing days - especially when we have had a stressful day - but from what I saw over the weekend of Trump's golf swing - 4 handicap?  I suppose it takes all sorts...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 16, 2018)

Well that was quite a press conference with Putin - his bestest buddy it seems given that he told CBS news at the weekend that he viewed the EU as a foe...brilliant - good to know who your friends are.

And a tweet from John Brennan tells us that Trump - in his press conference - was guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors in his views on Russia - and also what he actually said about his OWN country

D_onald Trumpâ€™s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of â€œhigh crimes & misdemeanors.â€ It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trumpâ€™s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???_

https://twitter.com/JohnBrennan/status/1018885971104985093


----------



## IanM (Jul 16, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*

Brennan... ho ho


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 16, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well that was quite a press conference with Putin - his bestest buddy it seems given that he told CBS news at the weekend that he viewed the EU as a foe...brilliant - good to know who your friends are.

And a tweet from John Brennan tells us that Trump - in his press conference - was guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors in his views on Russia - and also what he actually said about his OWN country

D_onald Trumpâ€™s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of â€œhigh crimes & misdemeanors.â€ It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trumpâ€™s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???_

https://twitter.com/JohnBrennan/status/1018885971104985093

Click to expand...

A number of Republicans are giving him hell


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 17, 2018)

And not just the usual Trump critics in the GoP - and even Fox News

Many are suggesting very clearly and forcefully indeed - and with great concern - that, by his own words and actions, Trump appears to be a serious risk to US national security.  And his attacks and criticisms of the EU, NATO, May and Merkel all sit very neatly with a view that Trump is Putin's puppet - doing all Putin's work in undermining the EU and NATO.  As the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said about Trump and Putin and their discussions _"They were magnificent," Lavrov said, answering a journalist's question. He added that the talks were "better than super."_

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/16/politics/trump-putin-meeting-view-moscow/index.html


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 17, 2018)

*Re: Trump Unhinged*



IanM said:



			Brennan... ho ho
		
Click to expand...

and your point is?


----------



## IanM (Jul 17, 2018)

If I have to explain, you wouldnt get it anyway


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 17, 2018)

IanM said:



			If I have to explain, you wouldnt get it anyway
		
Click to expand...

Nicely condescending thankyou...

So what do you think of Trump in the press conference?  You think it all just great and that all those in the USA who are freaking out are just bad losers and exaggerating things?


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 17, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Nicely condescending thankyou...

So what do you think of Trump in the press conference?  You think it all just great and that all those in the USA who are freaking out are just bad losers and exaggerating things?
		
Click to expand...

What does it matter what anyone in the World thinks, because unless theyâ€™re American citizens we and have no say in the matter or what he says or does.

The guy may be a buffoon, but to keep harping on doesnâ€™t achieve anything. 
Unless of course you have an American passport and can vote postal, your thoughts and opinions of him are as irrelevant as mine and everyone elseâ€™s on this side of the Atlantic.


----------



## IanM (Jul 17, 2018)

Since you ask, I think Trump is dreadful, unstatesman like, a braggard with no idea to behave... some of his policies are excellent, some are bad and some are misrepresented.  

When I see many of his detractors, and their agernda, then begin to doubt my dislike of him....................... the default position of the millenial sheep, 

Kids blown up at concerts, grooming gangs, FGM and gays chucked off tall buildings..... total bloody silence. Trump?  They go bananas  - why is that?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 17, 2018)

IanM said:



			Since you ask, I think Trump is dreadful, unstatesman like, a braggard with no idea to behave... some of his policies are excellent, some are bad and some are misrepresented.  

When I see many of his detractors, and their agernda, then begin to doubt my dislike of him....................... the default position of the millenial sheep, 

Kids blown up at concerts, grooming gangs, FGM and gays chucked off tall buildings..... total bloody silence. Trump?  They go bananas  - why is that?
		
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OK then.  Have you listened to what GoP Senators Sasse, Flake and McCain have said.  Have you heard what Paul Ryan (GoP Speaker of the House of Representatives) has said.  Have you heard what Newt Gingrich (past Speaker of the House of Representatives) has said.  

And have you heard or read what Fox News thinks...

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/trump-putin-conference-right-reaction

Well I have.  And none of it is complementary or supportive in any way of Trump's words.  On the contrary - they are all - at best - very disturbed and worried.


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## IanM (Jul 17, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			OK then.  Have you listened to what GoP Senators Sasse, Flake and McCain have said.  Have you heard what Paul Ryan (GoP Speaker of the House of Representatives) has said.  Have you heard what Newt Gingrich (past Speaker of the House of Representatives) has said.  

And have you heard or read what Fox News thinks...

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/trump-putin-conference-right-reaction

Well I have.  And none of it is complementary or supportive in any way of Trump's words.  On the contrary - they are all - at best - very disturbed and worried.
		
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And that changes what I said _how_ exactly?  Or did you actually read what you are replying to?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 17, 2018)

IanM said:



			And that changes what I said _how_ exactly?  Or did you actually read what you are replying to?
		
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I commented that John Brennan had been highly critical of Trump - you replied with issues unrelated to John Brennan's comments on Trump.  I care not for 'whatabootery'.  Albeit that what you mention are all serious issues and concerns what are they to do with Trump and his love affair with Putin?   

The serious concerns of many in the US are in respect of the risk that their President poses to US National Security.  A risk that is highlighted by Trump's standing attitude towards the US Security and Intelligence Services; his dismissing of them whilst in front of the world press and standing besides the despot Putin; his complete unwillingness to express any form of concerns on Putin and Russia's behaviour - whilst misrepresenting the views of Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats - who had urged Trump to confront and castigate Putin for Russian meddling in the election.

And of course - we have Putin telling the world that he wanted Trump to win and implying that he directed his intel community to try and make that happen.  Putin not so clever.  And as Putin said this - Trump looked on admiringly and smirking.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 17, 2018)

And, the conclusion is, the Democrats seriously need to up their game next time round...


That means going with a candidate favourable with the electorate not just the party faithful...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 17, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			And, the conclusion is, the Democrats seriously need to up their game next time round...


That means going with a candidate favourable with the electorate not just the party faithful...
		
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They do.  But many are worried about 'the now'.  And so should our government...as Trump cosies up to Putin whilst being ambivalent (at best) about NATO and stating that the EU is 'a foe' as he looks to undermine it...to see what he can do to promote it's disintegration.

And as one commentator asked - what on earth would Trump do if Putin sent forces into any of the Baltic states tomorrow.


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## Old Skier (Jul 17, 2018)

IanM said:



			And that changes what I said _how_ exactly?  Or did you actually read what you are replying to?
		
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At least you have an opinion, SILH just hides behind the opinions and quotes of others.


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## gmc40 (Jul 17, 2018)

IanM said:



			Since you ask, I think Trump is dreadful, unstatesman like, a braggard with no idea to behave... some of his policies are excellent, some are bad and some are misrepresented.  

When I see many of his detractors, and their agernda, then begin to doubt my dislike of him....................... the default position of the millenial sheep, 

Kids blown up at concerts, grooming gangs, FGM and gays chucked off tall buildings..... total bloody silence. Trump?  They go bananas  - why is that?
		
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Why is it so common amongst gammon to refer to "grooming gangs" as soon as anyone is critical of Trump, Tommy Robinson or other racists/bigots?

I don't like racists and the people who defend them. 

I don't like grooming gangs and the people who covered it up. 

I don't like terrorists or those who promote radical Islam.

I don't like Priests/80's DJ's who abused kids. 

I'm sure pretty certain it's not one or the other. 

It is acceptable to criticise all nonces and not just the brown ones.


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## gmc40 (Jul 17, 2018)

IanM said:



			Good use of trendy insult, but you ignored the point raised....and interesting assumption of authors origin and politics.

But appreciate the confirmation and the bite.  Some things may be criticised, some not.
		
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It was a fair point. You claimed those who criticse Trump never criticise Grooming Gangs etc etc without actually knowing whether they do or don't. On the same hand people who wheel out the "what about the grooming gangs" comment only ever seem to be upset about that type of nonce. I wonder why?


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## IanM (Jul 17, 2018)

You clearly have no knowledge of the prison system then...... or recent case law


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## gmc40 (Jul 17, 2018)

IanM said:



			You clearly have no knowledge of the prison system then...... or recent case law
		
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Not relevant. Are you the same Ian who was over on golf magic before the forum went pair shaped when the bigots took over? If so I note you're not as obvious in your views as you were over there. I suppose it's easier when surrounded by like minded souls.


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## gmc40 (Jul 17, 2018)

He's backtracking now;

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-i-mis-spoke-at-putin-press-conference-11440009


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## MegaSteve (Jul 17, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And as one commentator asked - what on earth would Trump do if Putin sent forces into any of the Baltic states tomorrow.
		
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The same as what the whole world did when he [Putin] took flight MH17 out of the sky...


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 18, 2018)

gmc40 said:



			Not relevant. Are you the same Ian who was over on golf magic before the forum went pair shaped
		
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Do you mean getting past all the spam posts?


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## IanM (Jul 18, 2018)

Sorry to disappoint.
I didnâ€™t express a view, only asked why people take to the streets about one thing, but not others....and clearly you canâ€™t have the discussion with someone shouting â€œbigot!â€

Interesting


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## gmc40 (Jul 18, 2018)

IanM said:



			Sorry to disappoint.
I didnâ€™t express a view, only asked why people take to the streets about one thing, but not others....and clearly you canâ€™t have the discussion with someone shouting â€œbigot!â€

Interesting
		
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I'm not disappointed, I'm correct. 

It's the default argument of the Bigot. "Why you moaning about [insert name of racist] and not the [insert a crime committed by a muslim/foreigner]?". You see it all the time on forums and social media. It's just a weak attempt to shut people down.


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## IanM (Jul 18, 2018)

gmc40 said:



			I'm not disappointed, I'm correct. 

It's the default argument of the Bigot. "Why you moaning about [insert name of racist] and not the [insert a crime committed by a muslim/foreigner]?". You see it all the time on forums and social media. It's just a weak attempt to shut people down.
		
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You are indeed spot on - bigots come in all forms, and youve missed some words from the brackets!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 18, 2018)

And so Trump supporters complain that 'the metropolitan liberal elite' deride Trump supporters by calling them stupid.  Well in his explanation of his mis-speak Trump clearly considers his supporters to be well and truly 100% stupid.  But in believing his supporters are so stupid to actually swallow his line - these supporters are not half as stupid as Trump is himself.

For many Americans that must have been a very worrying (never mind that it excruciatingly embarrassing) thing to hear their president spout yesterday.

And he is to be our #1 post-Brexit friend in the world.  Oh goodie.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 20, 2018)

Just one little bit of the wisdom of Trump the Genius from yesterday

_The Summit with Russia was a great success, except with the real enemy of the people, the Fake News Media. I look forward to our second meeting so that we can start implementing some of the many things discussed, including stopping terrorism, security for Israel, nuclear........_

The man is either deluded, an imbecile or insane.  Or maybe all three.

Putting aside the great success - nobody has a clue what Trump discussed and agreed with Putin in private.  Not a clue.  And that is why there is a strong push to have the US translator subpoenaed to give evidence to the House Intell Committee - and it seems that Republicans are currently blocking it,  good god- what the hell is going on.

Meanwhile witness the stunned reaction of Dan Coats - DNI Chief, when he is told that Trump has invited Putin to the White House in the fall.  And when later in a Q&A session if he had know - he said he hadn't...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dan-co...meddling-second-meeting-aspen-security-forum/


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 26, 2018)

Trump will be telling NATO that the NATO countries should be thankful that the US has invisible aircraft - because the F35 is indeed actually invisible.  Yes we know it is 'invisible to radar' - but he truly doesn't seem to realise that specific rider - that it's invisible 'to radar'

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/nati...mp-says-once-again-that-the-f-35-is-invisible

There is so much barmy going on in Trump's head that this confusion is not surprising...

Take his speech to veterans - when he told them _'don't believe what you are reading and seeing - what you are seeing isn't happening'_

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-wars-video-watch-not-happening-a8462711.html

And could we forget Putin responding to a question from the floor about him wanting Trump to win the election and supporting Trump

Well the White House seemingly has

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/poli...tin-helsinki-summit-transcript-newday-vpx.cnn

And because Putin never actually said what he said in that joint press conference - and Trump didn't criticise Putin and Russia for interfering in the 2016 election - Trump is empowered to tweet...(about the November mid-terms)

_â€œIâ€™m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election.  Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely donâ€™t want Trump!â€_

This is actually _1984 / Brave New World _ stuff

But hey - let's form a trusted relationship with him and get cracking good deals for the UK...yes let's...

But why not?  He seems to love the EU now.  Methinks some of his advisors who can actually think straight have got to him...maybe...


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## Tashyboy (Jul 26, 2018)

I see the village idiot (Trump) has managed to stop a Trade war with the EU. Maybe playing hardball is the way to go. Hope the Brexit negotiators are watching.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 26, 2018)

Tashyboy said:



			I see the village idiot (Trump) has managed to stop a Trade war with the EU. Maybe playing hardball is the way to go. Hope the Brexit negotiators are watching.
		
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Let's see if the EU and WH versions of events and agreements align...

We might as well accept right now that Trump will be claiming victory - but as he said - don't believe what you see and hear - oh I forgot of course - you must believe everything the Trump says.  

And if you disagree? Well see Trump's falling out with a whole bunch of previous national security and intelligence chiefs - because they dare question and criticise him...and threatening to remove their security clearances  - so they can't support the current incumbents of their previous positions.  

Senior and leading Republicans saying - er no - that's not going to happen - and Paul Ryan (demob happy) brushing this off as Trump trolling...The PotUS trolling ex-security and intel chiefs...

Quoting Jake Tapper on Sarah Sanders volte face on Trump's consideration of turning over to Putin ex-US Ambassador to Russia and 11 others - What the hell is going on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmZzkYoTQuQ


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## IanM (Jul 26, 2018)

Tashyboy said:



			I see the village idiot (Trump) has managed to stop a Trade war with the EU. Maybe playing hardball is the way to go. Hope the Brexit negotiators are watching.
		
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Trump is looking to get the best deal for his country, the Tories are not! :rofl:


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## Hobbit (Jul 26, 2018)

IanM said:



			Trump is looking to get the best deal for his country, the Tories are not! :rofl:
		
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Verily I have giggled:cheers::clap:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 26, 2018)

IanM said:



			Trump is looking to get the best deal for his country, the Tories are not! :rofl:
		
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And when he fails miserably?  

In last couple of days a MSNBC reporter was interviewing a load of farmers across various states and they were telling him of the problems that tariffs were causing them.  Trump of course derided the journalist; called those interviewed lackeys - and threw it to his meat-chewing acolytes as another lump of fresh Fake News (T)rump.


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## IanM (Jul 26, 2018)

Letâ€™s see eh? Heâ€™ll get more out of them in a week than the â€œletâ€™s pretend weâ€™re leavingâ€ crew have pretended to in two years....

And I think youâ€™ve missed the point about agricultural tariffs....


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## Hobbit (Jul 27, 2018)

IanM said:



			Letâ€™s see eh? Heâ€™ll get more out of them in a week than the â€œletâ€™s pretend weâ€™re leavingâ€ crew have pretended to in two years....

And I think youâ€™ve missed the point about agricultural tariffs....
		
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Its not just the scale of the tariffs, 59% in some cases, it also quotas. When you look at the EU's own database on tariffs you do wonder just how much of a 'pay rise' that equates to if all of a sudden your spending power increased by 30%. Imagine the stimulation the economy would receive if everyone got a 30% pay rise...


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## Tashyboy (Jul 27, 2018)

IanM said:



			Trump is looking to get the best deal for his country, the Tories are not! :rofl:
		
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Amen to that brother. It was the point i was trying to make rather than get a trumpesque response from others. &#128521;


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 27, 2018)

Tashyboy said:



			Amen to that brother. It was the point i was trying to make rather than get a trumpesque response from others. &#128521;
		
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Trump cares a lot less about the USA than he does about himself.  I thought that everyone had realised that by now.  If it's good for Trump then the rest can sort itself out.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 7, 2018)

I so love Cenk Uygur (of The Young Turks) when he looks at the facts around what Trump says and does...yesterday Cenk considered what Trump has just said this week about the 2016 'adoption' meeting in Trump Tower that Don Jnr, Manafort and others in Trump's immediate circle had with Russians. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzO34aKBjm4&t=2s&index=9&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ

This is what happens when Trump's saying and tweetings are actually held up to the light and scrutinised for the lies that they are - and exposes the craven subservience of those close to him.

Of course why Trump and his acolytes are coming out with some of this stuff is that they have had to be honest to the special counsellor - and in time the truth will come out and will show up Trump as the blatant liar that he is.  And so they get the lies out now and try and wriggle out from them.  But no apologies for lying to the US public as yet forthcoming from the PotUS or his lackeys.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 9, 2018)

Waiting with interest to see/hear what Trump thinks of the US State Department imposing sanctions on Russia due to their involvement in the Salisbury poisonings.  And if Russia do not open up for inspection within 90 days then further sanctions will be imposed.  And they won't - so they will be.

We note that this is not Trump or the administration making a decision - this is US law requiring sanctions to be imposed when use of chemical weapons is determined beyond reasonable doubt by US intelligence services (those very services that Trump seems to have a love/hate relationship with depending on the way the public wind is blowing)

Meanwhile - Trump and his twittering are silent on the matter


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 10, 2018)

Trump's twittering - the sound of silence.

I wonder why? Maybe on the phone with his 'buddy across the sea' saying sorry for the actions of the State Department and asking his buddy to keep mum about - y'know - the stuff.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 11, 2018)

A quote from almost 100 years ago.......




(Pinched from Ricky Gervais's Twitter feed)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2018)

Silence continues to reign on TrumpTwit on the Russian Sanctions.  Which is kind of strange don't you think given that Trump has been boasting almost continuously in the fall-out from Helsinki that he is the toughest ever against Putin and Russia - boasting that continued until these sanctions were initiated by the State Department.  

You might have thought that Trump would have been furiously boasting in tweets how these sanctions demonstrate that he is strong and tough with Putin and Russia - but no - total and complete radio silence on the matter...one might wonder why?

And whether legally obtained or not, any recordings that Omarosa Manigault has on Trump that are released this week could make very interesting listening - especially as some apparently contain Trump using words relating to race that would find you or I banned from this forum.

Meanwhile what we find trump tweeting on is trade - he tells his followers his views on Harley-Davidson

_Many @harleydavidson owners plan to boycott the company if manufacturing moves overseas. Great! Most other companies are coming in our direction, including Harley competitors. A really bad move! U.S. will soon have a level playing field, or better._

Good way he has of supporting his indigenous industry - damn them if they do something that might conflict with what he says will happen on trade and manufacturing industry.

Meanwhile for all US Trade Deal fans in the UK - note that Trump does not want a level playing field in trade - he wants things to be to the benefit of the USA above and beyond any other consideration.  Good news.


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## IanM (Aug 13, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Trump does not want a level playing field in trade - he wants things to be to the benefit of the USA above and beyond any other consideration.
		
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Paragraph 1 Line 1 of a Prez's job description surely.  

Shame our PM is less patriotic


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## drdel (Aug 13, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Meanwhile for all US Trade Deal fans in the UK - note that Trump does not want a level playing field in trade -* he wants things to be to the benefit of the USA* above and beyond any other consideration.  Good news.
		
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And China, India, Germany et al are all philanthropists !!


Pity the UK leadership hasn't got the same driving force.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2018)

drdel said:



			And China, India, Germany et al are all philanthropists !!


Pity the UK leadership hasn't got the same driving force.
		
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In any deal if one party negotiates the terms to it's advantage over the other - then the other is agreeing to a deal that is not the best - might be OK - but it won't be the best.  And it might have some disadvantages.

This is one flaw in what could be the UK's cunning plan to the WTO for 30th March 2019 - that the EU tariffs and quotas schedule can be adopted and used as a starting point for post-Brexit trade.  That schedule has to be agreed by all 164 members of the WTO and that may not be quite so straightforward - since some WTO members might well want to renegotiate specific tariffs and quotas in that schedule - terms that are currently not to their advantage or indeed are damaging - but that they accepted in the bigger picture of their trade with the EU.

Meanwhile Trump eschews all deals where he has to negotiate with multiple partners.  He wants it 1:1 so he can bully other parties individually into accepting what he wants for America.

And once the UK is out of the EU the government will have a market of 65million to negotiate with - whilst the EU will have a market of about 446million.  Hmmm.


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## Old Skier (Aug 14, 2018)

And once again the man derails the thread and turns it into another EU back slapping exercise.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 14, 2018)

Old Skier said:



			And once again the man derails the thread and turns it into another EU back slapping exercise.
		
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Wouldn't if it weren't for the fact that a trade deal with the US is high on the list of 'must haves once left'.  What does Trump really care about the UK...he's sounding more unhinged as the days go on.


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## IanM (Aug 14, 2018)

Why is a Head of State putting his country first considered so outrageous?   


Maybe it's so long since we didnt have a EU Federalist in charge, we've forgotten what it looks like!


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## Old Skier (Aug 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Wouldn't if it weren't for the fact that a trade deal with the US is high on the list of 'must haves once left'.  What does Trump really care about the UK...he's sounding more unhinged as the days go on.
		
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And there was me thinking it was about NATO and Trump which it never was was it. It was more to do with your insistent posting against everything that you personally disagree with.


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## shortgame (Aug 14, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			note that Trump does not want a level playing field in trade - he wants things to be to the benefit of the USA above and beyond any other consideration
		
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Imagine that.  The leader of a country putting his country first.

Facepalm &#129318;&#127995;*&#9794;


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 16, 2018)

Trump demonstrates the extent of his class and being most presidential

_When you give a crazed, crying lowlife a break, and give her a job at the White House, I guess it just didnâ€™t work out. Good work by General Kelly for quickly firing that dog!_

And two days later Trump demonstrates his intelligence and economic savvy

_Our Country was built on Tariffs, and Tariffs are now leading us to great new Trade Deals - as opposed to the horrible and unfair Trade Deals that I inherited as your President. Other Countries should not be allowed to come in and steal the wealth of our great U.S.A. No longer!_

John Brennan had his security clearance removed immediately after he tweeted in response to Trump's 'dog' tweet
_
Itâ€™s astounding how often you fail to live up to minimum standards of decency, civility, & probity. Seems like you will never understand what it means to be president, nor what it takes to be a good, decent, & honest person. So disheartening, so dangerous for our Nation._

Oh dear. As more than one commentator has observed in tweet/print to Trump _'you're an embarrassment to the nation'_


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 22, 2018)

Manafort found guilt on 8 out of 18 counts and Cohen pleading guilty and pointing finger at Trump.  Problem is - Trump has spun the Fake News / Media Enemy of the People line so much that even straight reporting of these facts might well simply be dismissed by Trump and his acolytes as Fake News.  After all it is not that long ago that Trump told a gathering of veterans...

_"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening. Just stick with us, don't believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news."_

Still - trouble may be heading Trump's way.


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## gmc40 (Aug 22, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Still - trouble may be heading Trump's way.
		
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I think thatâ€™s a given following Cohenâ€™s admissions. He has directly implicated Trump and stated he was following his instructions. There are also claims from his lawyer that more dirt is about to be dished as well. Interesting times ahead!


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## Hobbit (Aug 22, 2018)

gmc40 said:



			I think thatâ€™s a given following Cohenâ€™s admissions. He has directly implicated Trump and stated he was following his instructions. There are also claims from his lawyer that more dirt is about to be dished as well. Interesting times ahead!
		
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Heâ€™s dodged more bullets than Wild Bill. Itâ€™ll take impeachment or a Nixon-style resignation before he admits defeat.


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## gmc40 (Aug 22, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			Heâ€™s dodged more bullets than Wild Bill. Itâ€™ll take impeachment or a Nixon-style resignation before he admits defeat.
		
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Don't disagree with that. I suspect he'll be forced out rather than walking. Wouldn't surprise me if he tried to get rid of Mueller prior to that. Dunno if that's possible though?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 22, 2018)

gmc40 said:



			Don't disagree with that. I suspect he'll be forced out rather than walking. Wouldn't surprise me if he tried to get rid of Mueller prior to that. Dunno if that's possible though?
		
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Trump has already suggested that he could take over from Mueller in leading the Election Interference Investigations.


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## Hobbit (Aug 22, 2018)

It will have to be obviously toxic for him to be impeached, and even then it will probably mean the loss of Congress and the Senate in November before he will be forced out.


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## Tashyboy (Aug 23, 2018)

So let me get this right, he marries Ivana in 2005 and sleeps with a porn star in 2006. For that reason alone Trump has gone right down in my estimation, and I did like how he looked after USA. Rumored him and his wife are sleeping in seperate beds, Suprised it's not  seperate countries.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 23, 2018)

Melania, Tashy. Ivana was wife no 1. I suspect Melania is sitting quietly, seething, and waiting for the moment he is longer President. At that point her lawyer will emerge and announce she is taking Donald for some serious money.

Saying all of that, she knew the billionaire that she was marrying, she knew what she was taking on. I'm struggling for sympathy, even though the situation is quite horrible.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 23, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Melania, Tashy. Ivana was wife no 1. I suspect Melania is sitting quietly, seething, and waiting for the moment he is longer President. At that point her lawyer will emerge and announce she is taking Donald for some serious money.

Saying all of that, she knew the billionaire that she was marrying, she knew what she was taking on. I'm struggling for sympathy, even though the situation is quite horrible.
		
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Did you hear MT's 4 minute speech couple of days back on cyber bullying - how it is unacceptable and that those doing it must be exposed etc.  The jury is out whether she was saying this as a not very disguised but very barbed swipe at her husband - or whether she was choosing to speak as if oblivious to his tweeting.  And so later same day he continued in his usual obnoxious cyber-bullying way.  Bizarre state of affairs and a quite shocking way for a PotUS to speak and act.

Let's see how Congress now acts given that the GOP representatives in Congress know that many, if not most, of Trump's core supporters (35% of the US electorate) think as all lies what they hear and see about the alleged crimes and actual misdemeanours of Trump - their President.

Unreal.

Though I understand that even if Trump survives this and a possible second term as PotUS - many of his alleged crimes, for which evidence is mounting, can be prosecuted once he leaves office.


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## USER1999 (Aug 23, 2018)

And this is all about NATO because?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 23, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			And this is all about NATO because?
		
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Because mods decided that we were not allowed to open up more than one thread about Trump and this was the first opened.


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## Foxholer (Aug 23, 2018)

*Re: Trump*



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Trump has already suggested that he could take over from Mueller in leading the Election Interference Investigations.
		
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:rofl: :rofl:

Scarily, that doesn't surprise me! But i hope it's 'Fake News'!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 23, 2018)

*Re: Trump*



Foxholer said:



			:rofl: :rofl:

Scarily, that doesn't surprise me! But i hope it's 'Fake News'! 

Click to expand...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/2...robe-mtvs-vmas-turn-into-trump-bash-fest.html

Best to use Fox on this as they couldn't ever be accused by Trump of spreading Fake News


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 30, 2018)

Trump - on first being asked to comment on the passing of Sen John McCain.  On the one hand petulant and childish - on the other - arrogant and nasty.  What a guy. What a President.  

But it would appear that the walls are closing in on our dear Mr Trump - though it might not be Russia wot could do for him - but women and his lies, lies, lies.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 4, 2018)

Looking forward to Trump's tweets in response to what Bob Woodward has written in his book out today.  It would be funny were Trump not PotUS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b9bc1958c614


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 6, 2018)

Bob Woodward's book.  Hilarious if it wasn't so serious.  White House Administration team apparently having to keep stuff away from Trump as they are so worried about how he is so able to misunderstand things; get things wrong, and totally screw up.


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