# Your opinion on.... Racism in the movies.



## JustOne (Feb 13, 2015)

Is the 'N' word OK for black people to use?

Watched this supposedly funny action film (with Will Smith in it) with my 14yr old last night, slightly squiriming in my seat watching it and was lost for words when he asked why it's OK for them to call each other "Ni----".

I mean how can this be right???

Lots of swearing in the vid so *don't click if you are easily offended* (this is a MAIN STREAM MOVIE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APhw7rju-Co


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## Keeno (Feb 13, 2015)

If its not ok for some to use, it should not be ok for all. Simples


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## One Planer (Feb 13, 2015)

I think 12 years a slave, Django and Boyz n the hood would be very different without racial language.

If it helps in the portrayal of a role/part/culture then, as it's acting, it could be deemed acceptable.

Blatant and overuse is a different issue.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 13, 2015)

Mmmn, lot's of middle aged white golfing men trying to pontificate on the extremely complex history of black culture and specifically the use of the n word.  This should be fun...

And as for the OP then you could possibly have tried to explain the historical and cultural implications of the word and why some black people think it is OK to use it. Instead of being lost for words. Plus it's a 15 film, and you say your son is 14.


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## JustOne (Feb 13, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Mmmn, lot's of middle aged white golfing men trying to pontificate on the history of black culture.  This should be fun...

And as for the OP then you could possibly have tried to explain the historical and cultural implications of the word and why black people think it is OK to use it. Instead of being lost for words.

Plus it's a 15 film so your son was obviously not old enough to watch it if you are squirming because of bad language.  You can't go moaning about the inappropriate content of a film if you ignore the classification.
		
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I hate racism, wouldn't matter if he was 15 or 45.

Black people were slaves in history (I think we all know that) if perpetuating the 'lingo' is honouring those that gave their lives for equality (and that sits well with you) then that's your call.

[edit] FWIW I did explain that rape is illegal but you still see it portrayed in the movies, so is drinking and driving,... and pulling out a gun and shooting people. I also explained that it's just words and just because it's easy to use them doesn't mean you should.


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## Hobbit (Feb 13, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Mmmn, lot's of *middle aged white *golfing men trying to pontificate on the extremely complex history of black culture and specifically the use of the n word.  This should be fun...

And as for the OP then you could possibly have tried to explain the historical and cultural implications of the word and why some black people think it is OK to use it. Instead of being lost for words. Plus it's a 15 film, and you say your son is 14.
		
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Ageist and racist?  That right made me giggle did that.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 13, 2015)

JustOne said:



			I hate racism, wouldn't matter if he was 15 or 45.

Black people were slaves in history (I think we all know that) if perpetuating the 'lingo' is honouring those that gave their lives for equality (and that sits well with you) then that's your call.
		
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I'm confused here.  Are you saying black people using the n word is racism?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 13, 2015)

If the word becomes normalised then people can not complain about its racials overtones when it is used by those who do it in a nasty way. A similar argument is going on with Tottenham fans over the Y word. One group does not own a word. It is either acceptable or not.

I understand the use of the word in historical films, eg Django Unchained, Twelve Years a Slave etc as that was factually accurate for that time. For more modern films I think it is used for cheap shock value.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 13, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If the word becomes normalised then people can not complain about its racials overtones when it is used by those who do it in a nasty way. A similar argument is going on with Tottenham fans over the Y word. One group does not own a word.* It is either acceptable or not*.

I understand the use of the word in historical films, eg Django Unchained, Twelve Years a Slave etc as that was factually accurate for that time. For more modern films I think it is used for cheap shock value.
		
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In general yes, but I don't think it is as easy as that for this word as there is such a specific cultural history attached to it.  And the context it is used in is vitally important, is it being used as an insult from a white person to a black person or is it being used as a greeting between black people.  It is so complicated that they even run university courses on it! http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-40-fall-2011/feature/straight-talk-about-n-word


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## SocketRocket (Feb 13, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			I'm confused here.  Are you saying black people using the n word is racism?
		
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If something offends you then you don't do it yourself!

I would never knit yogurt for example


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 13, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			If something offends you then you don't do it yourself!

I would never knit yogurt for example 

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You should try it, it is good fun.  But make sure you go for a nice thick one like Mueller, don't go Supermarket own brand value range as they are mostly water, and therefore impossible to knit with. 

And with regards to the other point then as I said above, with this word the context is vitally important, possibly more than any other word in the English language.  And it isn't so black and white.  Although I am sure I could have chosen a better phrase than that in the circumstances.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 13, 2015)

Of course it's OK. It's a great strategy for dealing with prejudiced abuse to reclaim the abusive term. Used to great effect in the gay community as well.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 13, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Of course it's OK. It's a great strategy for dealing with prejudiced abuse to reclaim the abusive term. Used to great effect in the gay community as well.
		
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Yogurt knitter.....


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## Rumpokid (Feb 13, 2015)

Keeno said:



			If its not ok for some to use, it should not be ok for all. Simples
		
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Agree with this.


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## G.U.R (Feb 13, 2015)

I think you tend to lose the moral high ground when you use the word yourself, bit like Tottenham fans using the Y word then getting indignant when others use it.

Racism is just wrong end of.


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## c1973 (Feb 13, 2015)

Well, my opinion for what it's worth. 

If you don't mind referring to yourself as nigger (or poofter, paki, dyke etc etc) or for select others to refer to you in such terms then I think you're in the wrong for being offended by the word. Double standards imo.

HOWEVER, that's based on the word/s being used in a non threatening and/or abusive manner. 

Who are we to say that being called a 'speccy b' a 'baldy b' or a 'fat c' is less hurtful to someone and therefore not a hate crime, yet calling someone an 'f nigger' is? 

I've always felt education is the way forward, as opposed to dealing with racism, sexism etc etc by creating an imbalance in the law (which I believe hate crimes do) to punish those using such language. 
Educating people works imo. 


*probably not a popular opinion, but before anyone assumes I'm a closet bigoted racist let me assure you, nothing could be further from the truth.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 13, 2015)

my take on it is that the N word is either totally acceptable or totally unacceptable, ie no middle ground

Some of the gangsta rap that my daughter listens to is full of N word references 
If a particular community use it in modern parlance , then how can they complain when others use it.

Suppose its like me saying "Hi you old, fat,bald git" when meeting Imurg (another old fat bald git.)

If they want the word to disappear from the vocabulary, they should stop using it themselves. imo


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 13, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			my take on it is that the N word is either totally acceptable or totally unacceptable, ie no middle ground

Some of the gangsta rap that my daughter listens to is full of N word references 
If a particular community use it in modern parlance , then how can they complain when others use it.

Suppose its like me saying "Hi you old, fat,bald git" when meeting Imurg (another old fat bald git.)

If they want the word to disappear from the vocabulary, they should stop using it themselves. imo
		
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Let me ask you this...

Suppose you met Imurg one day and, with a broad smile, he called you a "fat, bald git" and then the next day some random you have never met before came up to you on the street, right up close and screamed in your face that you were a "fat bald git". Are you trying to say that those two incidents are in any way comparable?


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 13, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Let me ask you this...

Suppose you met Imurg one day and, with a broad smile, he called you a "fat, bald git" and then the next day some random you have never met before came up to you on the street, right up close and screamed in your face that you were a "fat bald git". Are you trying to say that those two incidents are in any way comparable?
		
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No of course not, one is a "greeting" between chums and the other is a verbal attack and im not suggesting that the latter is in any way acceptable .

The point im making is that if members of the black community want to stop people from using the N word, they should stop using it themselves, especially in music where it is heard by a large audience of impressionable young people


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2015)

I have always thought it's the way and intent some words are said 

IE - if I called my mate gay plonker for example because he wore something that was a bit feminine IE pink shirt then I would class that as non offensive as my mate would know it's a joke and a laugh etc - but to call someone you know who is homo sexual a "gay prÂ£&ok" or even a stranger and say it with venom then it's unacceptable 

But to describe some people using certain words IMO is unacceptable - ie the N word , P word - C word 

Whilst in the military a lot of stuff was said between people that was banter and at times was needed to relax the situation

But the safest way is know your audience 

If someone found being called something offensive then don't call them that


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## Break90 (Feb 13, 2015)

G.U.R said:



			I think you tend to lose the moral high ground when you use the word yourself, bit like Tottenham fans using the Y word then getting indignant when others use it.

Racism is just wrong end of.
		
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There were very few 'tottenham fans' getting indignant about it, quite the opposite in fact.


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## guest100718 (Feb 13, 2015)

The poll suggests that  people don't care.


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## Hobbit (Feb 13, 2015)

guest100718 said:



			The poll suggests that  people don't care.
		
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The poll suggests more people care than don't care, 15 'v' 11.


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 13, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Mmmn, lot's of middle aged white golfing men trying to pontificate on the extremely complex history of black culture and specifically the use of the n word.  This should be fun...
		
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Maybe lots of slave abolitionists were middle aged white men in the 1800's............


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## c1973 (Feb 13, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Maybe lots of slave abolitionists were middle aged white men in the 1800's............
		
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What? 

As opposed to the middle aged black chiefs that sold captured tribesmen?


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## Liverbirdie (Feb 13, 2015)

c1973 said:



			What? 

As opposed to the middle aged black chiefs that sold captured tribesmen? 

 




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The point was to show that middle aged white people can be a force for good in their "pontifications".

They could also have been players in the slave trade as well, but doesnt that show hacker's comments up for tarring a whole section of society with the same brush, based on colour and class.........


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## c1973 (Feb 13, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			The point was to show that middle aged white people can be a force for good in their "pontifications".

They could also have been players in the slave trade as well, but doesnt that show hacker's comments up for tarring a whole section of society with the same brush, based on colour and class.........
		
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Yep. I got the point you were making. :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Mmmn,* lot's of middle aged white golfing men *trying to pontificate on the extremely complex history of black culture and specifically the use of the n word.  This should be fun...

And as for the OP then you could possibly have tried to explain the historical and cultural implications of the word and why some black people think it is OK to use it. Instead of being lost for words. Plus it's a 15 film, and you say your son is 14.
		
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What would you call have pre judgemebt of people and what they say based on their age and colour ?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 13, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What would you call have pre judgemebt of people and what they say based on their age and colour ?
		
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The Yogart fumes can play hell with your judgement


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## palindromicbob (Feb 13, 2015)

"Some of the commentary has been valuably incisive â€“ Brendan Oâ€™Neill particularly so: the whole hoo-ha pointing up the insanity of the PC world weâ€™re in, one in which â€œ*the context in which words are spoken, and the intention and meaning behind them, count for nothing. So to have a potty-mouthed black comedian say the n-word for very obvious laughs is apparently the same thing as having a white racist shout the n-word in the face of a black man or woman*â€¦â€"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...y-word-with-hate-behind-it-can-be-racist.html


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## bluewolf (Feb 13, 2015)

The appropriation of an offensive term is a fantastically effective way to seize back power. However, when that appropriation becomes part of the vocabulary of the next generation, then it has gone too far. 
There is a powerful movement in Black American culture right now, led by people such as Chuck D, who want to stop the over-use of the N Word in popular culture. The use of the N word in music and movies (both run predominantly by white social elites) is being targeted and IMO will soon start to disappear... Hopefully...

Ooh, by the way.. I voted "Don't know" as it's a very complex argument..


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## User20205 (Feb 13, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			"Some of the commentary has been valuably incisive â€“ Brendan Oâ€™Neill particularly so: the whole hoo-ha pointing up the insanity of the PC world weâ€™re in, one in which â€œ*the context in which words are spoken, and the intention and meaning behind them, count for nothing. So to have a potty-mouthed black comedian say the n-word for very obvious laughs is apparently the same thing as having a white racist shout the n-word in the face of a black man or woman*â€¦â€"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...y-word-with-hate-behind-it-can-be-racist.html

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It's all about context.  

I can't believe some can't see that. Who you are and how you say it dictates the meaning of the word.


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## MarkE (Feb 13, 2015)

I voted yes. No word should be banned. I don't believe in any sort of censorship.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 13, 2015)

It come down to intent and context. Bit like the C word. Used primarily as shock tactic but I've seen it in films where it was used in context and to be honest another word wouldn't have fitted. As others have said if modern society uses the N word they can surely have no qualms if it filters into more main stream use


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## SocketRocket (Feb 13, 2015)

What causes offence and why is quite complicated and does not always follow a common rule.

For example:   Which of these are offensive and why:

Brit
Ozzie
Paddy
Taffy
Jock
Yank
Paki
Kiwi


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 13, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			What causes offence and why is quite complicated and does not always follow a common rule.

For example:   Which of these are offensive and why:

Brit
Ozzie
Paddy
Taffy
Jock
Yank
Paki
Kiwi
		
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As I think you are trying to prove, the context they are used in and the historical connotations will be the major deciding factor in each case.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 13, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It come down to intent and context. Bit like the C word. Used primarily as shock tactic but I've seen it in films where it was used in context and to be honest another word wouldn't have fitted. As others have said if modern society uses the N word they can surely have no qualms if it filters into more main stream use
		
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In the world of Equality and Diversity,  it's impact not intent


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2015)

Quite straight forward really.
We can all use it or no-one can use it.
As with all words, it must be used in an inoffensive manner ........................ obviously.
That word is not property, nobody owns it!


*Slime*.


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## hovis (Feb 13, 2015)

The word n#*+er has no positive meaning so i dont understand how "its depends on how its used"

Its a dirty, fifthly name/word that should not be used in any way.  No matter if its meant in good light or bad.


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## SugarPenguin (Feb 13, 2015)

god this film cracks me up.
probs one of the funniest scenes of all time

voted i dont care because why would anybody?


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## palindromicbob (Feb 13, 2015)

hovis said:



			The word n#*+er has no positive meaning so i dont understand how "its depends on how its used"

Its a dirty, fifthly name/word that should not be used in any way.  No matter if its meant in good light or bad.
		
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YG would probably disagree.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 13, 2015)

I remember when the "N"word was a shade of brown, and people skins were a lot thicker no matter the colour or shade. 
Growing up in the 40s and 50s I was taught  rightly or wrongly , 

"Sticks and stones will break your bones but names will never hurt you",    I voted I don't care.


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## palindromicbob (Feb 13, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			I remember when the "N"word was a shade of brown, and people skins were a lot thicker no matter the colour or shade. 
Growing up in the 40s and 50s I was taught  rightly or wrongly , 

"*Sticks and stones will break your bones **but names will never hurt you*",    I voted I don't care.
		
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Wish that were true.


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## Slime (Feb 13, 2015)

And what a great film Dambusters was ................................ but doing a re-make is causing a few issues because of that word!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_(dog)



*Slime*.

P.S. The world's gone mad.


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## Smiffy (Feb 14, 2015)

guest100718 said:



			The poll suggests that  people don't care.
		
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Hang on mate. I haven't voted yet


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## JustOne (Feb 14, 2015)

therod said:



			It's all about context.  

I can't believe some can't see that. Who you are and how you say it dictates the meaning of the word.
		
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I don't believe that to be true, even in what could be described as a 'more positive' situation.....

For example...




			"I saw a stunning ni**** clicking down the street in amazing Jimmy Choo high heels and her 2 little ni**** kids were absolutely adorable and beautifully behaved!"  

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 If you can justify this sentence then go for it.


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## guest100718 (Feb 14, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			What causes offence and why is quite complicated and does not always follow a common rule.

For example:   Which of these are offensive and why:

Brit
Ozzie
Paddy
Taffy
Jock
Yank
Paki
Kiwi
		
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C'mon i'm not that bad.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2015)

JustOne said:



			I don't believe that to be true, even in what could be described as a 'more positive' situation.....

For example...

 If you can justify this sentence then go for it.
		
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You can't justify that sentence because it's nonsense, it would never be said. You must recognise however there is a difference between you or I using the particular word in question, or it being used by two black men who know each other. I'm not defending the latter especially but the context and meaning are vastly different. 

You can be prosecuted, but not for simply saying the word. The law recognises context.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 14, 2015)

So what is the problem with the N.... word?   I guess it is a substitute word for 'Black man'  which in it's self is not insulting (I think).   Its not suggesting the person is a form of genitalia as in most insults or lacking intelligence as in others.  OK, it's not a nice way to address someone but is the problem the use of the term or people being offended to easily?

Just asking!


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## blackpuddinmonster (Feb 15, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			So what is the problem with the N.... word?   I guess it is a substitute word for 'Black man'  which in it's self is not insulting (I think).   Its not suggesting the person is a form of genitalia as in most insults or lacking intelligence as in others.  OK, it's not a nice way to address someone but is the problem the use of the term or people being offended to easily?

Just asking!
		
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If your serious,suggest you google "why is the n word offensive".
That 'll tell you all you need to know.

If you've already done this......




take a seat, hope your having fun...:thup:

Oh, don't reply to me, this is my last post on the subject.
I reckon i'd end up being banned for life if i'am drawn in...  :thup:


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## Foxholer (Feb 15, 2015)

Is there any real difference between language deemed to be offensive - whether racist or swearing - being used for effect in a film and gratuitous violence/sex being used for equivalent effect?

To me, that was an ideal opportunity to establish the 'for effect' nature of most events in a film (or book) as opposed to reality. Though at 14, I'd be slightly concerned that this wasn't established already! Perhaps there's been a lack of subtlety in the education - where the 'damage'of racist language has been over-stressed (and an insistence that it never be used) without sufficient explanation or comparison to other misdeeds. Certainly wouldn't surprise me in our super-PC and 'what to think' versus 'how to think' environment!


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2015)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			If your serious,suggest you google "why is the n word offensive".
That 'll tell you all you need to know.

If you've already done this......

View attachment 13957


take a seat, hope your having fun...:thup:

Oh, don't reply to me, this is my last post on the subject.
I reckon i'd end up being banned for life if i'am drawn in...  :thup:
		
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Dont confuse yourself between someone posing a question and making a statement.

Just clarifying  :thup:


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 15, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Dont confuse yourself between someone posing a question and making a statement.

Just clarifying  :thup:
		
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Hopefully your question has now been answered


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 15, 2015)

S



SocketRocket said:



			So what is the problem with the N.... word?   I guess it is a substitute word for 'Black man'  which in it's self is not insulting (I think).   Its not suggesting the person is a form of genitalia as in most insults or lacking intelligence as in others.  OK, it's not a nice way to address someone but is the problem the use of the term or people being offended to easily?

Just asking!
		
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I'd expect better off you really as you are not stupid. It's the historical context of the word and it is much more offensive than using the words Black Man.  And if you call black person the n word in an offensive manner, and then suggested they were offended too easily, then I'd be very worried.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 15, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Dont confuse yourself between someone posing a question and making a statement.

Just clarifying  :thup:
		
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But most people pose questions because they do not know the answer to it. So you have made yourself look like you do not know the answer. 

Either that or you are trying to get the more extreme branch of UKIP to fall into your trap and agree that there is not much difference between referring to people as black people compared with referring to them as n******s


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			But most people pose questions because they do not know the answer to it. So you have made yourself look like you do not know the answer. 

Either that or you are trying to get the more extreme branch of UKIP to fall into your trap and agree that there is not much difference between referring to people as black people compared with referring to them as n******s
		
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Most people maybe!   Some people pose questions to encourage debate and to look at situations from a different perspective.

You seem to have fallen into the mode of the Socialist who will always offer the most extreme position rather than joined up reasoning.   Probably those yogurt fumes taking their toll.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 15, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Most people maybe!   Some people pose questions to encourage debate and to look at situations from a different perspective.

You seem to have fallen into the mode of the Socialist who will always offer the most extreme position rather than joined up reasoning.   Probably those yogurt fumes taking their toll.
		
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So are you wanting us to debate if black people are too easily offended if they are called the n word as a form of abuse? Really? 

Serious question, do you understand the historical significance of the word yourself and why black people find it so offensive if used as an insult by a white person?

And if you want a debate then what are your views on your question then? Do you have any?


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## JustOne (Feb 16, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Is there any real difference between language deemed to be offensive - whether racist or swearing - being used for effect in a film and gratuitous violence/sex being used for equivalent effect?
		
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In my opinion?... yes, because the language/behaviour is far easier to copy, I don't (well I hope) that my son isn't about to lean out of a car with an uzi and gun down 15 pedestrians


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