# Stopping the head/shoulders from rising on backswing



## barrybridges (Dec 9, 2010)

Like most (or some) people, I'm trying to use the winter to get back to basics and as part of that I've spent time filming my swing and analysing it while it's too cold to go outside. I'm planning to have lessons in New Year, but in the interim I'm still getting back into golf after a long time out so I'm trying to work out myself what's wrong so that I spend the pro time more efficiently.

One of the things I notice is that on my backswing, when I get to 80 - 90% of the backswing, my left arm and shoulder is impeded in the upswing by my head (the jaw) and as a result the remaining 10% of the backswing pulls my head upwards and draws the shoulders into a more upright stance. It's not much, but it's noticeable. This means from time-to-time I end up topping the ball as I struggle to recover balance on the downswing.

I think this video shows you what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W3bUcLwJ5M

I watched a few videos from Clemshaw on YouTube about this and the recommendation was that at set-up, I might want to consider turning my head 5 - 10 degrees to the right (as the video shows) so that there's less of an impediment to the shoulders on the backswing, but I'm finding this quite difficult as it just doesn't feel 'right' and - if anything - I feel off-balance in the neutral set-up position. Having the head tilted 5 degrees feels off-kilter.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what I might do to address this? Clearly I'm doing something wrong...but I'm not sure what the remedy is. My other thought might be that the problem is that I'm not getting enough twist in the torso which would take the 80% to 100% backswing without my head obstructing the arms/shoulders.

Any thoughts would be welcome!


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## Robobum (Dec 9, 2010)

If your shoulder is hitting your jaw can I suggest lifting your chin up a bit. Or if your chin is already up, close your mouth!!


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## Fore (Dec 9, 2010)

In Tiger Woods book he says he keeps his chin up so his left shoulder can pass under it. When you set up you are basically looking down your nose at the ball. Trouble i found with this is i tense up and lose speed. I started practising the clemshaw way recently and found it much more comfortable. It may take a few balls over the range to get accustomed to it, but i really like it.


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## bobmac (Dec 9, 2010)

Barry, if you have any videos of your swing from down the line, look at the angle set between your legs and back.
I imagine as you swing back it's your back that straightens which lifts your head up
Once you're in your posture at address, try and maintain that angle between your legs and back throughout your backswing and down into impact. That should improve your consistency.


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## Region3 (Dec 9, 2010)

Is it possible your shoulders are turning on too flat a plane?

I don't know if it's part of S&T but JustOne has often said try to imagine pointing your left shoulder at the ball, which would turn your shoulders more steeply and your left shoulder should miss your chin.

If that goes against what Bob has said, then I'm the one to ignore


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## surefire (Dec 9, 2010)

How flexible would you describe yourself as?

If you have a tight back, this may be restricting your ability to rotate, and so as soon as you reach your limit your shoulders will be pulled flatter, and possibly find your chin in the way. This would cause your posture to become more upright as your reach the end of your backswing.

If this is the case, it may be a physical limit, rather than a technique issue.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm in the same boat. If you watch my clip, as I get to the 3/4 turn everything is pretty good but I keep going and going until the head and body rises. I'm not sure if that is a catalyst for the lifting motion on the downswing but it is definitely something I could do without

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jON7nzyUow


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## JustOne (Dec 10, 2010)

Is it possible your shoulders are turning on too flat a plane?

I don't know if it's part of S&T but JustOne has often said try to imagine pointing your left shoulder at the ball, which would turn your shoulders more steeply and your left shoulder should miss your chin.
		
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Me again?? It's always me!     




Hey Barry,

Region3 is correct in my opinion, your shoulders are turning too flat which could be caused by several things.. eg: too upright at address, spine tilting away from the target at address, too much weight on the right side.

You found the ONE VIDEO of Shawn Clements that totally put me off his swing methodology!! Yes, he says some good stuff in his vids but this one in particular made me look at a swing called Stack & Tilt instead of his.

Take a look at this 'Clemshaw' picture, notice his head height and how much it changes at the top of his backswing compared to the poster on the wall just beside his left shoulder... 







....that's a 6 inch lift!!!   


Notice also that he can hardly even see the ball from that position, looking at the ball from the very corner of your left eye is a big NO-NO.

And notice also how flat his shoulders are in Pic B compared to where they are with some 'other' players...







The main issue with turning your shoulders too flat is that it makes your swing very 'armsy' and inconsistent. The backswing becomes too flat so you have to start lifting with your hands/arms to get the club to the top of your backswing... if you add that to "standing up" and "only seeing the ball out of the corner of your eye" then it's a recipe for an awful lot of mishit shots.

Do you have any medical/physical restrictions that may stop you from turning correctly? If not I could fix it for you!


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## percy_layer (Dec 10, 2010)

Is it possible your shoulders are turning on too flat a plane?

I don't know if it's part of S&T but JustOne has often said try to imagine pointing your left shoulder at the ball, which would turn your shoulders more steeply and your left shoulder should miss your chin.
		
Click to expand...

Me again?? It's always me!     




Hey Barry,

Region3 is correct in my opinion, your shoulders are turning too flat which could be caused by several things.. eg: too upright at address, spine tilting away from the target at address, too much weight on the right side.

You found the ONE VIDEO of Shawn Clements that totally put me off his swing methodology!! Yes, he says some good stuff in his vids but this one in particular made me look at a swing called Stack & Tilt instead of his.

Take a look at this 'Clemshaw' picture, notice his head height and how much it changes at the top of his backswing compared to the poster on the wall just beside his left shoulder... 







....that's a 6 inch lift!!!   


Notice also that he can hardly even see the ball from that position, looking at the ball from the very corner of your left eye is a big NO-NO.

And notice also how flat his shoulders are in Pic B compared to where they are with some 'other' players...







The main issue with turning your shoulders too flat is that it makes your swing very 'armsy' and inconsistent. The backswing becomes too flat so you have to start lifting with your hands/arms to get the club to the top of your backswing... if you add that to "standing up" and "only seeing the ball out of the corner of your eye" then it's a recipe for an awful lot of mishit shots.

Do you have any medical/physical restrictions that may stop you from turning correctly? If not I could fix it for you!  

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I like the pics you have there of Dustin Johnson, Arnold Palmer and Rickie Fowler. Having the shoulders rotate as close to 90 degrees as possible of the spine reduces the amount of stress on the muscles and joints and makes it easier to turn.

I would still look at the Shawn Clements videos on youtube, he has a lot of good ideas and explains them very well. Try to read, watch and learn as much as you can of different peoples opinions and theories and take from them what you think is good.

Rising through the backswing is a common problem, mainly due to flexibility and technique.


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## sawtooth (Dec 10, 2010)

....that's a 6 inch lift!!!   


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Agreed, moving the head up and down like that is not a good technique. 

Keep the head still as possible, chin up at address as already been suggested and dont't allow your body to rise up with the arms when you make your backswing.
		
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## JustOne (Dec 10, 2010)

Keep the head still as possible, chin up at address as already been suggested and dont't allow your body to rise up with the arms when you make your backswing.
		
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Can't agree with that, chin should be neutral, eyes looking down at the ball. with the chin up you have to look at the ball from the bottom of your eye sockets which (again) causes problems.

There is no need to contort ones body in order to make a good setup or good swing, the body is best working in a certain way...the way it was made.

In none of those pictures above is the players chin up... how can you turn your shoulders down if your chin is up?... neck stretching isn't my idea of fun


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## sawtooth (Dec 10, 2010)

Chin up a little so that its clear from the chest no more than that.

If you have the correct tilt from the waist, a straight back and the head held up a little it doesnt mean that you are looking down at the ball through the bottom of your eye sockets.


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