# Eddie Mair Joining LBC



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

The reason he is leaving BBC (significant cut in his remuneration) aside - maybe those who dismiss LBC as 'rant radio' might consider why Eddie Mair is joining LBC.  Could it even be that Mair recognises that LBC has become a significant and important forum for informed political and social debate - with contributions from many informed experts as well as informed and less than fully informed callers.

If you don't do LBC at the moment - try a bit of Nick Ferrari in the morning and Iain Dale from 4pm for one side of the Brexit argument and other political debate; James O'Brien and Shelagh Fogarty for another.  O'Brien is 'executioner in chief' of uniformed Leavers; Fogarty is particularly expert and knowledgeable on social and health matters.

And then there is Farage...Monday-Thursday 7pm-8pm.  Oh lawdy lawd!


----------



## bobmac (Jul 2, 2018)

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a blunt stick


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

bobmac said:



			I'd rather poke my eyes out with a blunt stick
		
Click to expand...

Do you actually listen?  And if you do - who do you listen to.  And if you do NOT listen you are surely just making a statement out of uninformed prejudice.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2018)

Do we have to get past the remuneration aspect? I suspect he is getting a healthy wedge following a likely cut, as many male R4 presenters have had to take in recent times.

A respected journalist and a good coup for LBC.


----------



## gmc40 (Jul 2, 2018)

I listen to LBC occasionally. I prefer some presenters to others. Can't bear Farage, full of it and the king of deflection whenever he is challenged. I remember O'Brien making mincemeat out of him a while back. 

I'm a bit left/right/centre depending on the subject so don't really dislike any of the others. Ferrari talks a bit of guff and his views on the recent Alfie Evans case were disappointing as he clearly hadn't familiarised himself with the court transcripts. Either that or he chose to ignore them to be controversial.


----------



## bobmac (Jul 2, 2018)

I've just looked up the latest from LBC.......

[h=1]*Cosmetic Surgery Should Not Be Advertised On Love Island Says Surgeon*[/h]
[h=1]*Nick Ferrari: School Skirt Row Is Because We Haven't Had A 'Damn Good War'*[/h]
So now I'm better informed, where's my blunt stick


----------



## Imurg (Jul 2, 2018)

If they don't play Rush, Maiden, Sabbath or Aerosmith then I'm with Bob....


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

bobmac said:



			I've just looked up the latest from LBC.......

[h=1]*Cosmetic Surgery Should Not Be Advertised On Love Island Says Surgeon*[/h]
[h=1]*Nick Ferrari: School Skirt Row Is Because We Haven't Had A 'Damn Good War'*[/h]
So now I'm better informed, where's my blunt stick
		
Click to expand...

Ok - so Ferrari covers items that are in the news and papers that morning.  And if you didn't listen you have absolutely no idea of the nature of the discussions - which were actually serious - using these stories as the spring-board.  

Indeed the school skirt row comes well reported across the press his morning - with the Sun and The Mail expressing fury and pulling in transgenders - not really looking at the full background; the issues, and indeed whether or not the change in uniform policy actually mattered.  Which is what Ferrari did and what O'Brien has subsequently covered.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Do we have to get past the remuneration aspect? I suspect he is getting a healthy wedge following a likely cut, as many male R4 presenters have had to take in recent times.

A respected journalist and a good coup for LBC.
		
Click to expand...

He is one of the best journalists and broadcasters the BBC have/had - and his remuneration almost pales into insignificance against that of that GIANT of broadcasting Jeremy Vine (LOL).


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

Yep more of your drivel. How come in your opening post you only refer to uninformed leavers but not uninformed remainers?

Oh hang on......could that be because all remainers know all the facts and have a crystal ball?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Yep more of your drivel. How come in your opening post you only refer to uninformed leavers but not uninformed remainers?

Oh hang on......could that be because all remainers know all the facts and have a crystal ball?
		
Click to expand...

That was quite deliberate because I was talking about James O'Brien.  

O'Brien's main thing (with him being a very strong supporter of Remain and advocate of Brexit being an insane thing to do - is to quiz Leave supporters who come on and make claims about Leaving and the EU.  He tries to deal in FACTS and not opinion about what might be - and so he interrogates callers on the FACTS that they use to support their arguments.  

There are in fact very few FACTS about the benefits of life outside of the EU - because we ain't yet out of the EU.  Plenty of aspirations but not many facts. There are of course some facts about life outside of the EU - such as UK can be a member of the WTO - that is a highly likely FACT - but is not a FACT yet.  Lot's of other stuff that might become fact but most are based upon assumptions of what a Deal or No Deal might be.  O'Brien simply looks at the FACTS that leavers use.

Ferrari and Iain Dale do similar but from the Brexit supporting perspective.  Iain Dale is I think particularly good.

And if you really want to hear a LBC presenter pushing the Leave agenda and trying to undermine Remain callers - just listen to Farage.

Oh I so appreciate my comments being referred to as drivel - when in fact in my OP I was commenting on the stance of a few LBC presenters - their stance being widely understood and acknowledge - so not really my opinion.


----------



## bobmac (Jul 2, 2018)

Firstly, I have no interest in cosmetic surgery or love island.
Secondly, I have no time for someone who wants a war to fix a school uniform problem

"We need a damn good war to sort this out."
Lastly, why would I give a dam what Farage wants to say.

Just because you like listening to that stuff, doesn't mean everyone should and it would appear that over 63 million people in Britain agree with me.

Each to their own


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That was quite deliberate because I was talking about James O'Brien.  

O'Brien's main thing (with him being a very strong supporter of Remain and advocate of Brexit being an insane thing to do - is to quiz Leave supporters who come on and make claims about Leaving and the EU.  He tries to deal in FACTS and not opinion about what might be - and so he interrogates callers on the FACTS that they use to support their arguments.  

There are in fact very few FACTS about the benefits of life outside of the EU - because we ain't yet out of the EU.  Plenty of aspirations but not many facts. There are of course some facts about life outside of the EU - such as UK can be a member of the WTO - that is a highly likely FACT - but is not a FACT yet.  Lot's of other stuff that might become fact but most are based upon assumptions of what a Deal or No Deal might be.  O'Brien simply looks at the FACTS that leavers use.

Ferrari and Iain Dale do similar but from the Brexit supporting perspective.  Iain Dale is I think particularly good.

And if you really want to hear a LBC presenter pushing the Leave agenda and trying to undermine Remain callers - just listen to Farage.

Oh I so appreciate my comments being referred to as drivel - when in fact in my OP I was commenting on the stance of a few LBC presenters - their stance being widely understood and acknowledge - so not really my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Nice reply but give me one FACT about remaining in the EU.

*How stable and successful is the EU going to be?*  FACTS please not your opinion because all you do is dismiss everyone else's opinions.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			He is one of the best journalists and broadcasters the BBC have/had - and his remuneration almost pales into insignificance against that of that GIANT of broadcasting Jeremy Vine (LOL).
		
Click to expand...

Jezza gets more money because he is on multiple shows. Dan Walker was attacked when the gender pay info came out on the BBC as it was claimed he was paid more than the women doing BBC breakfast next to him. It was then pointed out that he was paid the same as them for doing that show, his greater salary came from the other BBC shows that he did. Same with Jezza.

Anyway, don't knock his R2 slot. It is a good mix of items and he does know his stuff. He is a proper journalist, as is Mair.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Nice reply but give me one FACT about remaining in the EU.

*How stable and successful is the EU going to be?*  FACTS please not your opinion because all you do is dismiss everyone else's opinions.
		
Click to expand...

The facts are in respect of our current and historical situation.  These are facts.  There are facts in respect of our continuing trading relations as part of the EU - because we are part of these deals and can take advantage of them (and where that might constrain us); there are many facts about our continuing membership of EU trade, commerce, security and social associations and other bodies, and there are facts about life in  the EU under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.  All this is known today and we know what has been.

As far as forecasting the *actual *future - there are no clearly no facts in respect of outcomes - but in the EU we at least know where we stand TODAY and would have a very good idea where we would stand on 30th March 2019.

And so on O'Brien.  It  is the pro-Leave arguments that callers to O'Brien make on the basis of the historic evidence (or no evidence whatsoever) that he interrogates them on - that evidence and the assertions about the future that they make as if it _were _fact, whereas the assertions are often based upon no evidence whatsoever.


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The facts are in respect of our current and historical situation.  These are facts.  There are facts in respect of our continuing trading relations as part of the EU - because we are part of these deals and can take advantage of them (and where that might constrain us); there are many facts about our continuing membership of EU trade, commerce, security and social associations and other bodies, and there are facts about life in  the EU under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.  All this is known today and we know what has been.

As far as forecasting the *actual *future - there are no clearly no facts in respect of outcomes - but in the EU we at least know where we stand TODAY and would have a very good idea where we would stand on 30th March 2019.

And so on O'Brien.  It  is the pro-Leave arguments that callers to O'Brien make on the basis of the historic evidence (or no evidence whatsoever) that he interrogates them on - *that evidence and the assertions about the future that they make as if it were fact, whereas the assertions are often based upon no evidence whatsoever*.
		
Click to expand...

See my highlighted section......pretty much sums up all your posts on the entire Brexit discussion. You have absolutely no idea what our future holds but those in favour of leaving have seen all the wasted money, corruption and feathering of beds that has taken place in Brussels and they are fed up with it. 

When we leave, do you seriously think Europe will refuse to trade with us? The Germans won't sell us cars? The French won't sell us cheese and wine? The Italians won't sell pasta and fashion items? Come on, get real. They will do more damage to their own economies than they will to ours. 

Open your eyes mate and embrace a whole new world of opportunity.


----------



## chrisd (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			See my highlighted section......pretty much sums up all your posts on the entire Brexit discussion. You have absolutely no idea what our future holds but those in favour of leaving have seen all the wasted money, corruption and feathering of beds that has taken place in Brussels and they are fed up with it. 

When we leave, do you seriously think Europe will refuse to trade with us? The Germans won't sell us cars? The French won't sell us cheese and wine? The Italians won't sell pasta and fashion items? Come on, get real. They will do more damage to their own economies than they will to ours. 

Open your eyes mate and embrace a whole new world of opportunity.
		
Click to expand...

Dave, I'm not sure whether you can get an infraction for being sensible but, if you can, you're going the right way about it &#128077;&#128077;


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

chrisd said:



			Dave, I'm not sure whether you can get an infraction for being sensible but, if you can, you're going the right way about it &#62541;&#62541;
		
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm quite worried because I like cheese, wine and pasta!

But don't tell Hogan that   :rofl:


----------



## chrisd (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Actually, I'm quite worried because I like cheese, wine and pasta!

But don't tell Hogan that   :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

I doubt he'd listen anyway &#128513;&#128513;&#128513;


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Actually, I'm quite worried because I like cheese, wine and pasta!

But don't tell Hogan that   :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

You don't need to look further than Wensleydale and Cheddar for your cheese . Neither can be beaten. Wine comes in from Australia, New Zealand, California, Chile amongst many others already. I suspect most pasta sold in the UK is made in the UK. It is a cheap and simple product.

No need to buy any of those products from the EU if you don't. If you want keep buying stinky cheese from France then I can't help you but as I don't like that stuff I don't care :whoo:


----------



## Old Skier (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			See my highlighted section......pretty much sums up all your posts on the entire Brexit discussion. You have absolutely no idea what our future holds but those in favour of leaving have seen all the wasted money, corruption and feathering of beds that has taken place in Brussels and they are fed up with it. 

When we leave, do you seriously think Europe will refuse to trade with us? The Germans won't sell us cars? The French won't sell us cheese and wine? The Italians won't sell pasta and fashion items? Come on, get real. They will do more damage to their own economies than they will to ours. 

Open your eyes mate and embrace a whole new world of opportunity.
		
Click to expand...

You do know that askin SILH about the future of the EU is a no no.


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You don't need to look further than Wensleydale and Cheddar for your cheese . Neither can be beaten. Wine comes in from Australia, New Zealand, California, Chile amongst many others already. I suspect most pasta sold in the UK is made in the UK. It is a cheap and simple product.

No need to buy any of those products from the EU if you don't. If you want keep buying stinky cheese from France then I can't help you but as I don't like that stuff I don't care :whoo:
		
Click to expand...


And this is exactly my point! I can't think of anything off the top of my head that we can't source from elsewhere apart from possibly some of the financial services. I'm more than happy to eat Wensleydale, drink Aussie wine and drive a Japanese car


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 2, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You don't need to look further than Wensleydale and Cheddar for your cheese . Neither can be beaten. Wine comes in from Australia, New Zealand, California, Chile amongst many others already. I suspect most pasta sold in the UK is made in the UK. It is a cheap and simple product.

No need to buy any of those products from the EU if you don't. If you want keep buying stinky cheese from France then I can't help you but as I don't like that stuff I don't care :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Thereâ€™s a 5% (EU)tariff on wine from Oz and NZ. And even higher on US wines, and thatâ€™s before the recent hike. Wonder if thereâ€™ll be a reduction in price post-Brexit?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

Please - I am not talking about Brexit in this thread - I am talking about Eddie Mair joining LBC and the existing presenters who deliver a fairly balanced range of opinion - especially in respect of Brexit - but in respect of many issues.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			See my highlighted section......pretty much sums up all your posts on the entire Brexit discussion. You have absolutely no idea what our future holds but those in favour of leaving have seen all the wasted money, corruption and feathering of beds that has taken place in Brussels and they are fed up with it. 

When we leave, do you seriously think Europe will refuse to trade with us? The Germans won't sell us cars? The French won't sell us cheese and wine? The Italians won't sell pasta and fashion items? Come on, get real. *They will do more damage to their own economies than they will to ours. 

Open your eyes mate and embrace a whole new world of opportunity.*

Click to expand...

Really - and you know that that new world of opportunity will compensate for what we lose.  You know that do you?  Your statement is just the sort of stuff that James O'Brien quizzes callers on in detail...and in general he leaves them floundering around in aspirational stuff and grasping at predictions that the EU will collapse and so we are better out no matter what.

Its what O'Brien does.  

Iain Dale does the same for Remain supporters.  

Though you might be interested if you listen to Dale right now.  A staunch Brexit supporter - he is being pretty severely critical of the government and the PM about the state the government and the negotiations are in.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan;1860239- with the Sun and The Mail expressing fury  - not really looking at the full background;[/QUOTE said:
			
		


			You claim the Sun and Mail to be authoritative newspapers? I class them as toilet roll.
If you want real journalistic news then at least use the Times, Indiependant or Guardian,but no doubt they are too serious for the likes of fake news radio.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Really - and you know that that new world of opportunity will compensate for what we lose.  You know that do you?  Your statement is just the sort of stuff that James O'Brien quizzes callers on in detail...and in general he leaves them floundering around in aspirational stuff and grasping at predictions that the EU will collapse and so we are better out no matter what.

Its what O'Brien does.  

Iain Dale does the same for Remain supporters.  

Though you might be interested if you listen to Dale right now.  A staunch Brexit supporter - he is being pretty severely critical of the government and the PM about the state the government and the negotiations are in.
		
Click to expand...

Excuse me but you opened this thread by talking about 2 Brexit commentators.

Do I have all the answers post Brexit? No I don't. But I'd be interested to know your answers to why we are all going to be worse off. Enlighten us with a few of your facts?


----------



## chrisd (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Excuse me but you opened this thread by talking about 2 Brexit commentators.

Do I have all the answers post Brexit? No I don't. But I'd be interested to know your answers to why we are all going to be worse off. Enlighten us with a few of your facts?
		
Click to expand...

Here we go ......... another Brexit thread &#128547;&#128547;


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

chrisd said:



			Here we go ......... another Brexit thread &#128547;&#128547;
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but all the OP talks about is Brexit and God.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Sorry but all the OP talks about is Brexit and God.
		
Click to expand...

Ask him about Oxfam......he'll be very quiet then.


----------



## chrisd (Jul 2, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Ask him about Oxfam......he'll be very quiet then.

Click to expand...

Mention child abuse in the church !


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

chrisd said:



			Here we go ......... another Brexit thread &#128547;&#128547;
		
Click to expand...

It's not - it's a thread about Eddie Mair joining LBC - when some here completely rubbish LBC.   I pointed out that LBS has some very good journalists and presenters that span across both the political and the Brexit spectrums.  O'Brien and Fogarty centre left and Ferrari and Dale centre right (with Farage somewhere on a planet of his own).  I suggest that LBC is far from the 'rant radio' that some suggest - indeed some do without ever really listened to any great extent.  Certainly there are 'ranters' who phone in - but the presenters do a good job defusing the ranters and do not in general join in the ranting (except you know who)


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

chrisd said:



			Mention child abuse in the church !
		
Click to expand...

Oxfam - child abuse in the church? This is about Eddie Mair joining LBC and my suggestion that it is worth a listen.  And you guys feel it clever to bring up Oxfam and Child Abuse in the church as if it scores points against me or whoever - but please continue slapping each other on the back.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			You claim the Sun and Mail to be authoritative newspapers? I class them as toilet roll.
If you want real journalistic news then at least use the Times, Indiependant or Guardian,but no doubt they are too serious for the likes of fake news radio.
		
Click to expand...

No I don't - Ferrari and O'Brien *both *picked up on the dramatic headlines in these papers and asked whether their fury was justified?  And why might they do that?  Because the Mail especially is the font of knowledge and understanding for quite a number of our fellow citizens and so what it's headlines say actually do matter - because a lot of people read them.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			Excuse me but you opened this thread by talking about 2 Brexit commentators.

Do I have all the answers post Brexit? No I don't. But I'd be interested to know your answers to why we are all going to be worse off. Enlighten us with a few of your facts?
		
Click to expand...

Because the governments analysis of all scenarios tells us that we will...?   That we are moving from having tariff-free access to the largest free trade trading group outside of the WTO (of which Trump is threatening to leave) for what? - at the moment we are moving to nothing - and we will lose all the trade deals that the EU has in place and that the UK can take advantage of.  There is not one serious commentator now suggesting that we will be better of for leaving the EU for quite some time.


----------



## chrisd (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It's not - it's a thread about Eddie Mair joining LBC - when some here completely rubbish LBC.   I pointed out that LBS has some very good journalists and presenters that span across both the political and the Brexit spectrums.  O'Brien and Fogarty centre left and Ferrari and Dale centre right (with Farage somewhere on a planet of his own).  I suggest that LBC is far from the 'rant radio' that some suggest - indeed some do without ever really listened to any great extent.  Certainly there are 'ranters' who phone in - but the presenters do a good job defusing the ranters and do not in general join in the ranting (except you know who)
		
Click to expand...

Naw, it's clearly another Brexit hijack  &#128077;


----------



## drdel (Jul 2, 2018)

LBC is in the entertainment industry as are most of the independent radio/TV stations. The presenters want to create controversy to 'establish'/market themselves as personalities and seek only to compete for viewing figures and hence fee leverage.

You'll find enough trash broadcast on both sides of an argument so as not to reduce the potential punter base.

Don't kid yourself this is about LBC's communication quality - Mair is simply following the cash.


----------



## PieMan (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			- and we will lose all the trade deals that the EU has in place and that the UK can take advantage of.
		
Click to expand...

You're wrong on that front as we're transposing a number of those FTAs; and then any additional elements that both we and the respective country wants, or elements that we want removed, can be done so easily and quickly.

And there are a significant number of countries that cannot wait to sign trade agreements with us; and the sooner the better.

Probably wasn't reported in the media but China has lifted its ban on imports of British beef so a massive market has opened up for our producers.


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 2, 2018)

drdel said:



			Don't kid yourself this is about LBC's communication quality - Mair is simply following the cash.
		
Click to expand...

Can't disagree with that. Mair leaves a radio station with 11.4 million listeners to go to one with 2 million listeners, and does so because of a request by the BBC to take a substantial pay cut.

He is a good presenter/interviewer and will be missed by the Beeb, and is a good acquisition for LBC, but to say its for some high and mighty reason... no it isn't. He's miffed at the pay cut.


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because the governments analysis of all scenarios tells us that we will...?   That we are moving from having tariff-free access to the largest free trade trading group outside of the WTO (of which Trump is threatening to leave) for what? - at the moment we are moving to nothing - and we will lose all the trade deals that the EU has in place and that the UK can take advantage of.  There is not one serious commentator now suggesting that we will be better of for leaving the EU for quite some time.
		
Click to expand...

If you want to carry on propping up failing foreign economies then you crack on. I'd rather spend the money in the UK.


----------



## drdel (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			If you want to carry on propping up failing foreign economies then you crack on. I'd rather spend the money in the UK.
		
Click to expand...

Despite protesting against discussing Brexit he's tempting you down that road. There's about 10,000+ posts on the Art 50 thread that's worn out by repetition and has now added religion into the fray !!!


----------



## Hobbit (Jul 2, 2018)

drdel said:



			Despite protesting against discussing Brexit he's tempting you down that road. There's about 10,000+ posts on the Art 50 thread that's worn out by repetition and has now added religion into the fray !!!
		
Click to expand...

Brexit, consistently, appears in the Boris thread, the Trump thread, the Theresa May thread, the Art 50(obviously) and just about anywhere else someone can obsess about it.


----------



## gmc40 (Jul 2, 2018)

DaveR said:



			If you want to carry on propping up failing foreign economies then you crack on. I'd rather spend the money in the UK.
		
Click to expand...

I know. Can't wait for the Â£350m a week we'll be giving to the NHS.


----------



## DaveR (Jul 2, 2018)

gmc40 said:



			I know. Can't wait for the Â£350m a week we'll be giving to the NHS.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not naive enough to think that's going to happen but there will be substantial amounts of money available to spend on things that benefit Britain.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jul 3, 2018)

Going to close this thread as itâ€™s morphing into yes another Brexitfest 

There are 2 reasons why Eddie Mair is leaving the bbc 
1, he has been there for ages and probably fancies a change
2, the BBC cocked up the gender pay thang by reducing his salary rather than by simply increasing the salaries paid to those who identify as female. In the same role.

Lbc is a good choice for him, a good career move, chance to reinvent himself.
But I donâ€™t listen to it, I donâ€™t know anyone ( apart from Hogan who listens to it)

Itâ€™s a certain type of listener lbc attracts mostly defectors from Radio 4 and from the phone ins reported ( here and elsewhere) possibly attracts the type that would phone into a radio show.

Just one more word on Brexit, 
Please can we keep it in the Article 50 thread


----------

