# Minneapolis right now.



## Kellfire (May 31, 2020)

How can they call themselves the land of the free when they’re using their own police and National Guard to terrorise their own civilians?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266952661791674370
This thread has many videos showing the brutality being enacted on the people right now and of course we’ve had Trump say that it’s basically terrorism to not accept fascism. 

It would be so absent minded of us to not at least educate ourselves because this is our biggest ally in the world and someone we often align ourselves with. If it can happen there it can happen here.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 1, 2020)

There just has to be a better way.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 1, 2020)

Kaz said:



			I've struggled to find the words to describe the situation over there. Largely because the scope of it is too big, too historic, too deep rooted and talking about the current events is almost too superficial.

The systemic racism in that society is unfathomable. It's always been there but seems to have gotten even worse, encouraged by current administration. I'm aghast and helpless before it.
		
Click to expand...

...and too frightening given the weaponry held by many on the opposite sides of this particular political fence.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 1, 2020)

Hugely depressing. There is the odd bit of light. There was a sheriff in one town / city shown yesterday who stood in front of a crown of demonstrators, no gun, no helmet, no protective gear. He told them he agreed with their point of view, asked to join them. The demonstrators cheered, situation defused, police and community working together. 

I would not want to be facing a baying mob, sadly that is what some demonstrators have become, in the US when guns are so prevalent, police cars are being smashed and set alight. This is a mess and they need to lower the tension as best and as quickly as they can. Both sides.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

The whole situation is playing right into the hands of the white supremacy groups as well who are joining in with the riots to create hell. There was a couple of videos of one chasing people with a machete at first then driving further on and getting a bow and arrow out - so they jumped him to disarm him set his car on fire , he then went to the tv station to and told everyone how he got attacked just because he was saying all lives matter


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 1, 2020)

It's as if having an narcissistic popularist leader who amplifies the threat from people of a different race or nationality for their personal political gain leads to all sorts of problems. Let's hope we never elect one here.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 1, 2020)




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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



View attachment 30980

Click to expand...

In your opinion does the looting detract from the original reason for the protest? Or are you programmed to defend police actions at all costs?


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			In your opinion does the looting detract from the original reason for the protest? Or are you programmed to defend police actions at all costs?
		
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Nice attempt at deflection, but I haven't commented on police action, I've commented on the actions of the looters.


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Nice attempt at deflection, but I haven't commented on police action, I've commented on the actions of the looters.
		
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 Go back and read my post. It isn’t deflection when you pay attention to the first question I asked which I see you’ve conveniently ignored. The police are behaving like complete scumbags, cheered on by a fascist supporting president.


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## User20205 (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			In your opinion does the looting detract from the original reason for the protest? Or are you programmed to defend police actions at all costs?
		
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?? Is it not possible to condemn both? & is it not possible to believe that the opportunistic looting detracts from the cause of the protest?


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

therod said:



			?? Is it not possible to condemn both? & is it not possible to believe that the opportunistic looting detracts from the cause of the protest?
		
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Yes it is. 

Yes it is. 

Now let’s see if Blue in Munich will answer said questions.


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## triple_bogey (Jun 1, 2020)

Some of the injuries caused by rubber bullets is horrifying......A few have already lost their sight as they described the feeling of their eyeball exploding..


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## User20205 (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Now let’s see if Blue in Munich will answer said questions.
		
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Don’t see how you’ve taken the inference from his post. Looks like you’re reaching to me


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

therod said:



			Don’t see how you’ve taken the inference from his post. Looks like you’re reaching to me
		
Click to expand...

Well then he’ll answer me and I’ll know. But he ignored my first question which is important. This really isn’t rocket science.


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## JamesR (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Well then he’ll answer me and I’ll know. But he ignored my first question which is important. This really isn’t rocket science.
		
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I don’t believe there is a rule that says he must answer anything


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			I don’t believe there is a rule that says he must answer anything
		
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No but by not doing so it’s clear what the assumptions will be.


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## JamesR (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			No but by not doing so it’s clear what the assumptions will be.
		
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You know what they say about assumptions...


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## User20205 (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			No but by not doing so it’s clear what the assumptions will be.
		
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Only if you have a preconception. I’m not sure why he’d get into a ‘debate’ with you. That would involve a degree of empathy for any other view, I’m not sure you have that


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 1, 2020)

As callous as it sounds, I find it very hard to feel any sympathy for these sorts of events that seem to occur on a regular basis in the USA. They have refused steadfastly to amend their constitution to outlaw guns and as a result they have to live with the consequences of the violent society they have created. Every single violent death regardless of race, colour, creed etc is 1 death too many.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 1, 2020)

What we have now is a very long simmering powder-keg that just exploded

A heady mix of racial abuse, Police brutality (there is no hiding from that) disenchantment, economic poverty, no affordable healthcare etc
combined with the effects of Covid 19 both economically and health wise, it wasnt going to be long before something triggered it.

now to my mind , once the officers had been sacked and charged with Murder, that should have been that, but now the looters and opportunists have got on board and are fueling the flames, the police/national guard have to react and are deemed wrong to do so.

There were pictures on TV of a shop being looted that was owned by a black guy who was pleading with them to stop, to no avail....Go figure

This goes much deeper than the death of George Floyd, its a couple of hundred years of repression and the current leadership both in government and in local communities need to pull back
or its going to be a long hot summer of discontent


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## huds1475 (Jun 1, 2020)

Been reading this for the last few weeks, very topical;

Alice Goffman - On the Run: Fugitive Life in an American City (Fieldwork Encounters and Discoveries)

Maybe a little one-sided but the view of the justice system is pretty stark.

Would definitely recommend


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## Sats (Jun 1, 2020)

I am a british cop and proud to be; 

One particular story sticks in my mind - a traffic accident whereby a drunk driver collided with a family car at 70mph, I remember holding a 13 year olds hand reassuring him, even though at the time I knew once he was cut out the car he would die - he knew it and I'll never forget how blue his eyes were and when I told him he would be fine - he looked at me and said, "no, i won't, can you get my mum?" I went to get his mum and saw the drunk driver kicking off at my colleagues. Honestly I could have easily stepped on his neck that day. But I didn't, obviously, and he was duly arrested. I still have nightmares about that boy to this day, choked up typing about if I'm honest, but we are all human, no matter what we do for a living, colour of our skin etc etc.

Not all cops are bad or racist - all I as with 99% of the people I've worked with just want to pay their mortgages, play with our kids and play golf. I've seen first hand what riots look like and it's all ugly and doesn't help any cause for change or betterment. Things do need changing but looting and rioting are not the way, neither is firing at civilians.


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			In your opinion does the looting detract from the original reason for the protest? Or are you programmed to defend police actions at all costs?
		
Click to expand...

And the reason for the protest is.....

Oh yeah, an unarmed ‘known’ person with a history of violent crime who was driven out from his previous town/city died, and his life mattered! 

Does anyone deserve to die at the hands of the authorities before a trial, obviously not, and that will be dealt with by the full weight of the criminal service. 

But let’s not loose sight that this person (George) robbed and targeted single women at gun point and beat them when they cried out for help. 

I don’t care if he was black, white or something in the middle, he was a callous calculated bully and a dangerous (armed at times) individual who should have been locked up for life with the key thrown away years ago! 

But hey, all lives matter, or do they.....


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## Bunkermagnet (Jun 1, 2020)

What I don't get is why are there protests over here about this?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 1, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			What I don't get is why are there protests over here about this?
		
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Leftie Remain voters protesting against Trump...

Sadly I'm guessing that there won't be that many Leave voters (right of centre or otherwise) in their number - just guessing


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And the reason for the protest is.....

Oh yeah, an unarmed ‘known’ person with a history of violent crime who was driven out from his previous town/city died, and his life mattered!

Does anyone deserve to die at the hands of the authorities before a trial, obviously not, and that will be dealt with by the full weight of the criminal service.

But let’s not loose sight that this person (George) robbed and targeted single women at gun point and beat them when they cried out for help.

I don’t care if he was black, white or something in the middle, he was a callous calculated bully and a dangerous (armed at times) individual who should have been locked up for life with the key thrown away years ago!

But hey, all lives matter, or do they.....
		
Click to expand...

Obviously talking about his past which he had left behind over 6 years ago - he served his time in Prison for his crimes and was rehabilitated- pointing fingers at past crimes is trying to find a way to deflect. 

They are irrelevent to him being killed by a police force which quite clearly has issues and targets People of colour 

As for all lives matter this sums that statement up


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Leftie Remain voters protesting against Trump...

Sadly I'm guessing that there won't be that many Leave voters (right of centre or otherwise) in their number - just guessing 

Click to expand...

Antifa flags on show in amongst the crowds, speaks volumes.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			But hey, all lives matter, or do they.....
		
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Yes they do and the day that the police or anyone else starts taking the law into their own hands is the day that society becomes very uncivilised. Regardless of what he did or has done, he is entitled to be tried by the courts.


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And the reason for the protest is.....

Oh yeah, an unarmed ‘known’ person with a history of violent crime who was driven out from his previous town/city died, and his life mattered!

Does anyone deserve to die at the hands of the authorities before a trial, obviously not, and that will be dealt with by the full weight of the criminal service.

But let’s not loose sight that this person (George) robbed and targeted single women at gun point and beat them when they cried out for help.

I don’t care if he was black, white or something in the middle, he was a callous calculated bully and a dangerous (armed at times) individual who should have been locked up for life with the key thrown away years ago!

But hey, all lives matter, or do they.....
		
Click to expand...

Whilst I feel my political leanings are similar to yours.

Police are NOT Jury and executioners. As we have seen a large amount of US cops think differently (a couple being told to go inside off their doorway, then subesquently shot with pepperballs on their own property is the easiest example)

I remember I got a public order notice that stayed on my car for 2 years, there was no appeal process, I didn't break a law. The policeman was just a ****. I remember how livid I was, I can't imagine how much more livid i'd be if it was something more serious in the grand scheme of things.


I just wish people stopped this stupid all black people are x, all cops are y. How can anyone make progress with that narrow minded viewpoint. Tribalism is the crusade of the stupid.


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## Paperboy (Jun 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Whilst I feel my political leanings are similar to yours.

Police are NOT Jury and executioners. As we have seen a large amount of US cops think differently (a couple being told to go inside off their doorway, then subesquently shot with pepperballs on their own property is the easiest example)

I remember I got a public order notice that stayed on my car for 2 years, there was no appeal process, I didn't break a law. The policeman was just a ****. I remember how livid I was, I can't imagine how much more livid i'd be if it was something more serious in the grand scheme of things.


I just wish people stopped this stupid all black people are x, all cops are y. How can anyone make progress with that narrow minded viewpoint. Tribalism is the crusade of the stupid.
		
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Sure that was the national guard that fired onto the porch


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Whilst I feel my political leanings are similar to yours.

Police are NOT Jury and executioners. As we have seen a large amount of US cops think differently (*a couple being told to go inside off their doorway, then subesquently shot with pepperballs on their own property is the easiest example*)

I remember I got a public order notice that stayed on my car for 2 years, there was no appeal process, I didn't break a law. The policeman was just a ****. I remember how livid I was, I can't imagine how much more livid i'd be if it was something more serious in the grand scheme of things.


I just wish people stopped this stupid all black people are x, all cops are y. How can anyone make progress with that narrow minded viewpoint. Tribalism is the crusade of the stupid.
		
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When you watch that full video, they ignored repeated instructions to get inside their house, instead, they stood outside still filming, when the camera swung around to them in the house, after being fired upon, they were all masked up, so, if you ignore the instructions being given, and the police or guard see a group masked filming ignoring a direct instruction, what should they do?

Was it heavy handed, possibly, was there a good reason to clear the street/s to regain control, possibly, was there any reason to ignore the clear instructions to get inside your house, no!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 1, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Leftie Remain voters protesting against Trump...

Sadly I'm guessing that there won't be that many Leave voters (right of centre or otherwise) in their number - just guessing 

Click to expand...

That is a new low even by your perverse standards. 

Really? Are you not ashamed,  dragging Brexit into this issue. 

I despair!


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Was it heavy handed, possibly, was there a good reason to clear the street/s to regain control, possibly, was there any reason to ignore the clear instructions to get inside your house, no!
		
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They broke no law. They were on their own property. They are there to enforce law.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			When you watch that full video, they ignored repeated instructions to get inside their house, instead, they stood outside still filming, when the camera swung around to them in the house, after being fired upon, they were all masked up, so, if you ignore the instructions being given, and the police or guard see a group masked filming ignoring a direct instruction, what should they do?

Was it heavy handed, possibly, was there a good reason to clear the street/s to regain control, possibly, was there any reason to ignore the clear instructions to get inside your house, no!
		
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They were masked up because they were outside and protecting from the current Worldwide Pandemic that is going on - they were stood on their own front garden doing nothing wrong 

There are many examples all social media of thr Police clearly showing brutality towards people based on the colour of their skin.


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			They broke no law. They were on their own property. They are there to enforce law.
		
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Hmm, they broke no law, but ignored repeated clear instructions to go inside, so didn’t the police/guard then enforce the law?


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## AmandaJR (Jun 1, 2020)

My niece, who lives in America, posted this video...a tough watch but can't deny the truth of his words...




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=271546193965209


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They were masked up because they were outside and protecting from the current Worldwide Pandemic that is going on - they were stood on their own front garden doing nothing wrong
		
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😂😂


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Hmm, they broke no law, but ignored repeated clear instructions to go inside, so didn’t the police/guard then enforce the law?
		
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A cops instructions are not law. 

That's the whole problem, most law enforcement officials don't seem to know the law or have got into the mindset they ARE the law.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			A cops instructions are not law.

That's the whole problem, most law enforcement officials don't seem to know the law or have got into the mindset they ARE the law.
		
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Surely they have a duty to uphold the law and attempting to retain peace and order during a riot is exactly that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			😂😂
		
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What’s funny ?

People stood on their lawn wearing masks because of the current virus get shot at and you appear to be looking for a way to justify it , same with the bringing in someone old criminal record as some whataboutary to try and scrap some justification that an innocent man was killed by the police.


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Surely they have a duty to uphold the law and attempting to retain peace and order during a riot is exactly that.
		
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They do, hence curfews. (even tho they announced them 10 minutes in advance in a few cities) - which is a joke. Public property falls under no curfew. 

Those guys were on their own property, police need to follow the law themselves.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Surely they have a duty to uphold the law and attempting to retain peace and order during a riot is exactly that.
		
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Of course they do but heavy-handed law enforcement is precisely what gave rise to this.

Do you not think firing pepper balls at people on their own property was not provocative at the very least?


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## gmc40 (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And the reason for the protest is.....

Oh yeah, an unarmed ‘known’ person with a history of violent crime who was driven out from his previous town/city died, and his life mattered!

Does anyone deserve to die at the hands of the authorities before a trial, obviously not, and that will be dealt with by the full weight of the criminal service.

But let’s not loose sight that this person (George) robbed and targeted single women at gun point and beat them when they cried out for help.

I don’t care if he was black, white or something in the middle, he was a callous calculated bully and a dangerous (armed at times) individual who should have been locked up for life with the key thrown away years ago!

But hey, all lives matter, or do they.....
		
Click to expand...

From what I've read, those cases were over 12 years ago and he was attempting to turn his life around. Whilst he had history, I'm not sure how it is relevant in this case? 

He was arrested for allegedly trying to use a forged check/note. He was then choked to death by a police officer despite stating he couldn't breath, on camera whilst others begged for his life and for asked him to be helped. The police weren't arresting him for the type of crime you refer to and he wasn't fighting back. He was lying on the floor, handcuffed and and being starved of oxygen deliberately. A completely shocking case.


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What’s funny ?

People stood on their lawn wearing masks because of the current virus get shot at and you appear to be looking for a way to justify it , same with the bringing in someone old criminal record as some whataboutary to try and scrap some justification that an innocent man was killed by the police.
		
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There’s nothing ‘old’ about a felony conviction, it’s on his record for life, due to the seriousness of it. So he wasn’t rehabilitated in the sense of the legal word, otherwise it would be expunged from all records, which it wasn’t, even our rehabilitation act is 11yrs, so where is your evidence he was fully rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society, and please don’t say he may not have had any recent convictions, that could mean he was just more careful in his current crimes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			There’s nothing ‘old’ about a felony conviction, it’s on his record for life, due to the seriousness of it. So he wasn’t rehabilitated in the sense of the legal word, otherwise it would be expunged from all records, which it wasn’t, even our rehabilitation act is 11yrs, so where is your evidence he was fully rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society, and please don’t say he may not have had any recent convictions, that could mean he was just more careful in his current crimes.
		
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That’s a heck a judgement you are making there based on nothing , he paid for his crime behind bars and there was nothing to suggest anything more than he was trying to turn his life around. 

6 years since he left Prison and nothing - yet you want to attempt to find some deflection from him being killed despite doing nothing wrong. It seems the finger is being pointed at him as opposed to the policeman who choked him to death - wonder what the response be if the man was white and the policeman was black


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			There’s nothing ‘old’ about a felony conviction, it’s on his record for life, due to the seriousness of it. So he wasn’t rehabilitated in the sense of the legal word, otherwise it would be expunged from all records, which it wasn’t, even our rehabilitation act is 11yrs, so where is your evidence he was fully rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society, and please don’t say he may not have had any recent convictions, that could mean he was just more careful in his current crimes.
		
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None of which provides any justification for the actions of the police officers.


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			There’s nothing ‘old’ about a felony conviction, it’s on his record for life, due to the seriousness of it. So he wasn’t rehabilitated in the sense of the legal word, otherwise it would be expunged from all records, which it wasn’t, even our rehabilitation act is 11yrs, so where is your evidence he was fully rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society, and please don’t say he may not have had any recent convictions, that could mean he was just more careful in his current crimes.
		
Click to expand...

And now to add, he obviously wasn’t rehabilitating very well if he was, as has just been mentioned, attempting to use/produce a forged check🤔

Yeah, he was really turning his life around wasn't he.


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			None of which provides any justification for the actions of the police officers.
		
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I haven’t said it did, and clearly made that statement in my post earlier.


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And now to add, he obviously wasn’t rehabilitating very well if he was, as has just been mentioned, attempting to use/produce a forged check🤔

Yeah, he was really turning his life around wasn't he.
		
Click to expand...

I think it was confirmed it was a fake $20 bill.


Something anyone could have been guilty of.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And now to add, he obviously wasn’t rehabilitating very well if he was, as has just been mentioned, attempting to use/produce a forged check🤔

Yeah, he was really turning his life around wasn't he.
		
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Had he been tried and found guilty?


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## SocketRocket (Jun 1, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Of course they do but heavy-handed law enforcement is precisely what gave rise to this.

Do you not think firing pepper balls at people on their own property was not provocative at the very least?
		
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Do you think refusing to return to your property when told to was not provocative at the very least. It cant be easy to make rational decisions when facing a riot.


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## Paperboy (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you think refusing to return to your property when told to was not provocative at the very least. It cant be easy to make rational decisions when facing a riot.
		
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They were on their property, sat on their porch not rioting that's for sure. So yes I'd say it was pretty heavy handed!


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## Wolf (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you think refusing to return to your property when told to was not provocative at the very least. It cant be easy to make rational decisions when facing a riot.
		
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Regardless whether its a reasonable request, is it not equally reasonable to remain standing on your own property. Or what about reasonable force, where is the reasonable force in shooting someone with rubber bullets when they've used no force other than standing on their own property. 

In the riot training we were given that would be classed as excessive and we'd be facing prosecution for acting that way as should those officers/national guard.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you think refusing to return to your property when told to was not provocative at the very least. It cant be easy to make rational decisions when facing a riot.
		
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Like it or not higher standards are expected of law enforcement officers. 

Was there any evidence to suggest that those people represented a threat?

I wholeheartedly agree that the task faced by the police and National Guard was a thankless one but that should not detract from the fact that their actions in firing the pepper balls could have easily led to an escalation.


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## The Autumn Wind (Jun 1, 2020)

Does anyone know if Emperor Trump can actually play the fiddle ?


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## Fade and Die (Jun 1, 2020)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Does anyone know if Emperor Trump can actually play the fiddle ?
		
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I wonder if the people are sick and tired of all this winning? 😱


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## The Autumn Wind (Jun 1, 2020)

Fade and Die said:



			I wonder if the people are sick and tired of all this winning? 😱
		
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Nah, they’re loving it. They got exactly what they voted for.


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## garyinderry (Jun 1, 2020)

Was there any justification given for keeping him pinned to the ground for over 8minutes?


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## The Autumn Wind (Jun 1, 2020)

“While Washington DC burned, the President dicked about on Twitter” is a very modern update of an old saying.


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Was there any justification given for keeping him pinned to the ground for over 8minutes?
		
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To follow this; Isn't protocol a knee in the back whilst cuffed?


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## Fade and Die (Jun 1, 2020)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Nah, they’re loving it. They got exactly what they voted for.
		
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Did they?...the majority voted for Hilary! It’s a messed up country for sure.


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## The Autumn Wind (Jun 1, 2020)

Yes, you are right. I’d forgotten Hilary won the popular vote.

I checked the odds last night for the November election. Despite taking a huge nosedive in the recent polls, Trump is still an odds-on favourite to win against Biden.


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Yes, you are right. I’d forgotten Hilary won the popular vote.

I checked the odds last night for the November election. Despite taking a huge nosedive in the recent polls, Trump is still an odds-on favourite to win against Biden.
		
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Didn't Biden Cr*p himself on live TV? And is accused of sexual assault? And is generally creepy? 

Why is it the US can't put up one normal candidate. 

(before people get irate, I have no horse in the race. It just astounds me)


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## Fade and Die (Jun 1, 2020)

The Autumn Wind said:



			Yes, you are right. I’d forgotten Hilary won the popular vote.

I checked the odds last night for the November election. Despite taking a huge nosedive in the recent polls, Trump is still an odds-on favourite to win against Biden.
		
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Sort of sums the country up really! I want to feel sorry for them but it’s self inflicted. Like every time there is a mass shooting. Condolences, but come on ffs, sort yourself out!


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Didn't Biden Cr*p himself on live TV? And is accused of sexual assault? And is generally creepy?

Why is it the US can't put up one normal candidate.

(before people get irate, I have no horse in the race. It just astounds me)
		
Click to expand...

Trump has paid off multiple people to stop paedophilia accusations against him. Some of them corroborated by witnesses.


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## Kellfire (Jun 1, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267537051957813250👏🏻


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Trump has paid off multiple people to stop paedophilia accusations against him. Some of them corroborated by witnesses.
		
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That's not what I asked, it just proves my point!

Do research and put a normal, bright and articulate person with no skeletons in their closet.


(Edit: Lets post in the other thread to stop it getting derailed. This is more important I feel).


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

Well things are only going to get worse with stuff like this doing the rounds.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 1, 2020)

At least George Floyd's family are making a plea for peace https://news.sky.com/story/george-f...-and-vote-rather-than-cause-violence-11998827 

Whether the crowds listen or the rent-a-crowds will continue the civil unrest remains to be seen. The strongest part of the message though has to be Stop thinking your voice don't matter, and vote." If it acts as a rallying call, what impact will that have on Trump's campaign and is it too little too late to hope he won't get re-elected


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## DanFST (Jun 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			At least George Floyd's family are making a plea for peace https://news.sky.com/story/george-f...-and-vote-rather-than-cause-violence-11998827

Whether the crowds listen or the rent-a-crowds will continue the civil unrest remains to be seen. The strongest part of the message though has to be Stop thinking your voice don't matter, and vote." If it acts as a rallying call, what impact will that have on Trump's campaign and is it too little too late to hope he won't get re-elected
		
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Trump has no control of the state police (as far as i'm aware?)

He does have control of all other matters that effect these people tho. It'll sadly most likely come down to who has the best spin team.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 1, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Trump has no control of the state police (as far as i'm aware?)

He does have control of all other matters that effect these people tho. It'll sadly most likely come down to who has the best spin team.
		
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Only one winner then surely


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## Wolf (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? Unable to open the photos ?
		
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Summary of video
White woman seen punching white officer, black officer then decks her with a right hook from behind.

Excessive police force? Yes
Could he have restrained her from behind without punching her? Yes
Should the copper be dealt with as a result? Yes
Does it appear to be racially motivated? Absolutely not.

Will it cause things to escalate?  Only if people are stupid enough to form their opinions solely on skin colour and not facts in video footage.

That video has nothing to do with racial crimes, black lives or anything other than to highlight the fact US Police force deal with crimes with excess force and need to be reigned in and taught correct restraint techniques and be less emotionally involved in  the situations at hand..

Think that's a fair summary of it..


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## The Autumn Wind (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			? Unable to open the photos ?
		
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It’s a video of an American city street at night, with police cars and policemen in the middle of a street dealing with rioting. A black woman is apprehended by the police, she punches a white officer twice, and then a huge black cop decks her with a blindside haymaker. She’s out cold, laying in the road. Shocking stuff.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

Wolf said:



			Summary of video
White woman seen punching white officer, black officer then decks her with a right hook from behind.

Excessive police force? Yes
Could he have restrained her from behind without punching her? Yes
Should the copper be dealt with as a result? Yes
Does it appear to be racially motivated? Absolutely not.

Will it cause things to escalate?  Only if people are stupid enough to form their opinions solely on skin colour and not facts in video footage.

That video has nothing to do with racial crimes, black lives or anything other than to highlight the fact US Police force deal with crimes with excess force and need to be reigned in and taught correct restraint techniques and be less emotionally involved in  the situations at hand..

Think that's a fair summary of it..
		
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So more whataboutary and attempts at deflection away from the real issue currently being seen and escalating


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## Wolf (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So more whataboutary and attempts at deflection away from the real issue currently being seen and escalating
		
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Yup


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## SocketRocket (Jun 1, 2020)

Theres not much hope in changing things when everyone wants to be part of a division. African Americans, Irish Americans, Jewish Americans et al.  Its deeper than black and white but theirs no doubt that untill people can start accepting each other as equals there will not be any healing.  Ethnicity sucks.


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## JamesR (Jun 1, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Was there any justification given for keeping him pinned to the ground for over 8minutes?
		
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Yes, he was black, and a former criminal to boot, and therefore their duty was to end his life.
At least that’s what I’m taking from the EDL point of view.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Theres not much hope in changing things when everyone wants to be part of a division. African Americans, Irish Americans, Jewish Americans et al.  Its deeper than black and white but theirs no doubt that untill people can start accepting each other as equals there will not be any healing.  Ethnicity sucks.
		
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The more I read that the more I struggle with it 

Should people forget their history and just become “American “ ? Would that have saved this man or was it his skin colour the reason why the policeman treated him the way he did.

Why should it be a “Division “ - people should be able to get along with each other and keep their history and be proud of it. But then it always seems the be the “white true blood american/brit” who always seems to look down at Ethnicity as if it’s a bad thing when i believe it’s part of the beauty of the human race.


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Yes, he was black, and a former criminal to boot, and therefore their duty was to end his life.
At least that’s what I’m taking from the EDL point of view.
		
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Who’s giving that point of view?


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## JamesR (Jun 1, 2020)

Well I read an interesting point of view earlier, which questioned whether his life mattered, because he had been a criminal? And lets be honest we rarely hear about white folk being murdered, by the police, because they were old lags...it also seemed to question whether all lives did indeed matter?


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## Fish (Jun 1, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Well I read an interesting point of view earlier, which questioned whether his life mattered, because he had been a criminal? And lets be honest we rarely hear about white folk being murdered, by the police, because they were old lags...it also seemed to question whether all lives did indeed matter?
		
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Not just any criminal, someone who premeditated and targeted single women and robbed them & violently threatened them with a gun. 

But as I clearly stated, should anyone lose their life when being arrested, or whilst in custody, no, and that crime should be dealt with by the law, as its being done. 

But because I don’t see him as a rehabilitated individual, because of his past heinous crime/s, and irrelevant of his skin colour, your saying I’m EDL, seriously, that accusation is far worse imo than that of my opinion of him based on facts.


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## JamesR (Jun 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Not just any criminal, someone who premeditated and targeted single women and robbed them & violently threatened them with a gun.

But as I clearly stated, should anyone lose their life when being arrested, or whilst in custody, no, and that crime should be dealt with by the law, as its being done.

But because I don’t see him as a rehabilitated individual, because of his past heinous crime/s, and irrelevant of his skin colour, your saying I’m EDL, seriously, that accusation is far worse imo than that of my opinion of him based on facts.
		
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Where have I said you were EDL?
I simply suggested that that was their point of view


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 1, 2020)

The people of the USA have identified as Italian American,  Irish American,  Polish American etc; for 150 years now as a result of the various waves of immigration over that time. 
 The ultimate irony is that all of those groups chose to be there.

The ancestors of the African Americans were not that  fortunate and yet still, despite supposed emancipation in 1865, they still find themselves discriminated. They continue to represent a scapegoat for so many others.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The more I read that the more I struggle with it

Should people forget their history and just become “American “ ? Would that have saved this man or was it his skin colour the reason why the policeman treated him the way he did.

Why should it be a “Division “ - people should be able to get along with each other and keep their history and be proud of it. But then it always seems the be the “white true blood american/brit” who always seems to look down at Ethnicity as if it’s a bad thing when i believe it’s part of the beauty of the human race.
		
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I didnt mean any of the things you are suggesting. My point was that to improve the way we live together is to break down the barriers and divisions wherever they exist and it would help if they all felt united and equal first.  You are just looking for pulling out the race card as normal and it's unnecessary.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 1, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			The people of the USA have identified as Italian American,  Irish American,  Polish American etc; for 150 years now as a result of the various waves of immigration over that time.
The ultimate irony is that all of those groups chose to be there.

The ancestors of the African Americans were not that  fortunate and yet still, despite supposed emancipation in 1865, they still find themselves discriminated. They continue to represent a scapegoat for so many others.
		
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Dont you think it's time people stopped labeling themselves and focused on living together in peace.  I dont give a toss what anyones ethnicity, history or religion is where I live and it seems to me that works fine for people.  Theres no problem with people going to their churches Polish clubs or what ever but it's best IMO not to wear it on your sleeve.


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## azazel (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Theres no problem with people going to their churches Polish clubs or what ever but it's best IMO not to wear it on your sleeve.
		
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Why is it best not to wear your ethnicity "on your sleeve"?


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## SocketRocket (Jun 1, 2020)

azazel said:



			Why is it best not to wear your ethnicity "on your sleeve"?
		
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I've explained that already. In my opinion (and I guess I am allowed one) people live together peacefully where they integrate and dont live in ethnic communities. Follow your religion, meet with people who have similar ethnicity but dont let that create a barrier to an integrated community where the colour of your skin, your religious beliefs, your forefathers origins become your main identifying characteristic. A mixed community is in my experience a better way for society.

There seem to be some who want to turn this around into something it's not meant to be so best if I leave it there.


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## azazel (Jun 1, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			I've explained that already. In my opinion (and I guess I am allowed one) people live together peacefully where they integrate and dont live in ethnic communities. Follow your religion, meet with people who have similar ethnicity but dont let that create a barrier to an integrated community where the colour of your skin, your religious beliefs, your forefathers origins become your main identifying characteristic. A mixed community is in my experience a better way for society.

There seem to be some who want to turn this around into something it's not meant to be so best if I leave it there.
		
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I was genuinely curious and didn't spot the reason in your other posts, apologies for that.

I think, though, that the problem with hiding or being worried about showing where/what/who you've come from or what you believe to help integration doesn't lie with the perceived minority, it's absolutely with people who can't accept others being different to them.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Jun 2, 2020)

I need a new country, so whoever can wangle me an invitation, I'd sure appreciate it.

They're burning this crudhole of a country down to the the ground, and from my perspective, it truly needs burning down.
I wish that I were young enough to join the kids with the firebombs.
I guess that I had my turn in the 1960s.


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## DanFST (Jun 2, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			I need a new country, so whoever can wangle me an invitation, I'd sure appreciate it.

They're burning this shithole of a country down to the the ground, and from my perspective, it truly needs burning down.
I wish that I were young enough to join the kids with the firebombs.
I guess that I had my turn in the 1960s.
		
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You'll have to pay 45% tax, then you'll swiftly head back


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Jun 2, 2020)

DanFST said:



			You'll have to pay 45% tax, then you'll swiftly head back 

Click to expand...

I'm a Social Democrat.  I don't complain about taxes.  
You get more bang for the buck from your tax dollars than you get from discretionary spending where more of your money goes to corporate profits than for goods or services.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 2, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			That is a new low even by your perverse standards.

Really? Are you not ashamed,  dragging Brexit into this issue.

I despair!
		
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The question asked was why there were protesters in the UK. I suggested that they were probably mainly very anti Trump. And I suggested that if their politics was looked into further they would probably largely be made up of Left leaning Remain voters making a point about Trump and pointing out the risk of UK depending in some part on UK making a trade deal with him.  I have no idea if any of the above is true, but the question was asked and I simply suggested a reason as I don’t know either.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 2, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You asked why there were protesters in the UK. I suggested that they were probably mainly very anti Trump. And I suggested that if their politics was looked into further they would probably largely be made up of Left leaning Remain voters making a point about Trump and pointing out the risk of UK depending in some part on UK making a trade deal with him.  I have no idea if any of the above is true, but you asked and I simply suggested a reason as I don’t know either.
		
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So if you don't know their position on Brexit why even bring it into a discussion on a totally unrelated topic.

After all many on the Left,  including Jeremy Corbyn, were Leavers.

Do you find it necessary to pigeonhole everyone?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2020)

Does any other country have its citizens break themselves down into categories, as mentioned, as much as in America? There are plenty that will have a single distinct group, Turkish Kurds is an example, but I can't think of anywhere else that has so many. Interested to hear other examples if people can think of anywhere. 

I'm with some of the others on this, it can not be healthy to have such distintctions.


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## backwoodsman (Jun 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does any other country have its citizens break themselves down into categories, as mentioned, as much as in America? There are plenty that will have a single distinct group, Turkish Kurds is an example, but I can't think of anywhere else that has so many. Interested to hear other examples if people can think of anywhere.

I'm with some of the others on this, it can not be healthy to have such distintctions.
		
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 UK perhaps?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 2, 2020)

Racism is the unfortunate extension of our apparent need to still belong to easily identifiable groups, some might call it tribalism. 

Labels have to be attached no matter what the issue. 

Left or Right, Gay or Straight, Leave or Remain, on here there's Scottish or English, Tory or Labour and, of course Liverpool or whoever. 

It makes it easy for people to judge those that they don't know and probably never will meet if they can categorise them to fit a preconceived profile.

Much of the time this will be relatively harmless but the real problem arises when those judgements lead to prejudice and thus oppression. 

Of all the these categories race is often the easiest for lazy assumptions to be made due to something as unimportant as skin colour. 

Too many of us are too quick to just see someone and, consciously or otherwise, form an opinion of them purely on colour. 

Strangely if the person being assessed is the same colour as the one making the assessment only then are they likely to try to discover more. 

With this inbuilt into society it's sadly going to be many years before we can  even hope to eradicate prejudice.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2020)

backwoodsman said:



			UK perhaps?
		
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In what context? I have never heard someone called a British Pole, British Indian, British Caribbean, British Pakistani (feel free to reverse the order). We do hear description via religion, British Muslim for example has crept into the language, but I have not heard an origin term added.

I have not heard this type of phrasing across European countries either although they may be used, hence my question.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			In what context? I have never heard someone called a British Pole, British Indian, British Caribbean, British Pakistani (feel free to reverse the order). We do hear description via religion, British Muslim for example has crept into the language, but I have not heard an origin term added.

I have not heard this type of phrasing across European countries either although they may be used, hence my question.
		
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The terminology may be different but the distinctions are still there and obvious. 

Immigrant communities have been formed in areas of our major conurbations with shops  social facilities and places of worship. 

And certainly some do use the term Asian/British. 

I don't know if it is a good thing for these communities to be so formed as they may inhibit integration and acceptance but it is understandable.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 2, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			So if you don't know their position on Brexit why even bring it into a discussion on a totally unrelated topic.

After all many on the Left,  including Jeremy Corbyn, were Leavers.

Do you find it necessary to pigeonhole everyone?
		
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Jeez - Because the question was asked and I suggested a reason.  Do you have a better one?  I suggest most of those demonstrating will detest Trump and I suggest that those who detest Trump will not be that keen on the idea that we cosy up to him to get a great trade deal with the US and may well have expressed such views if asked.  Hopefully the US electorate will have cast him aside when it comes to it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2020)

We only have to read social media and indeed some of the mainstream papers to see that racism , bigotry etc is always alive and bubbling away 

An unarmed black American who paid for something with a forged note - ( something that has happened to many people all over the world ) is then killed by a policeman whilst other stand by and watch , it’s no doubt that if the man was white then the whole incident would never had occurred 

Now instead pointing fingers directly where the blame should be with have “white” men and women looking at other areas to try and shift the blame or look at some sort of justification for it - but to ease their conscience there is always the “the police will be punished” etc 

We have seen - his previous record dragged up , things that happened over a decade ago and he was released from prison after paying for his crimes 6 years ago and since then had no issue at all , but more and more people are going into that as if him losing his life doesn’t matter because in the past he committed some crimes ? Would the attitude be the same if it was a white man - of course it wouldn’t 

And then you have even on this thread - shouldn’t wear their ethnicity on their sleeve, they should integrate more with us white people and remove barriers - have you not thought for one minute why those barriers are there ? Why they are scared to integrate - maybe it’s because of hundreds of years of persecution from the same people that are telling them to integrate and not be proud of their ethnicity - why they hell would people who have been persecuted all their lives want to mix with others ?

If people really want other ethnic minorities then maybe people should them as equal all the time and not when it suits, maybe instead of looking to point fingers at the victims and what they could do to stop it happening they should look at the perpetrators and also before suggesting what others should do how about living in their shoes for a while and see how for many people they suffer daily racism and persecution all because of the colour of their skin or because of their sex or their sexuality


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 2, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Jeez - Because the question was asked and I suggested a reason.  Do you have a better one?
		
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Actually yes I do. 

The question was WHY people were protesting in this country not WHO was protesting. 

The answer, therefore, is that those protesting in the UK were expressing sympathy and support for the cause of Black Lives Matter. 

Certainly got damn all to do with Brexit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			The terminology may be different but the distinctions are still there and obvious.

Immigrant communities have been formed in areas of our major conurbations with shops  social facilities and places of worship.

And certainly some do use the term Asian/British.

I don't know if it is a good thing for these communities to be so formed as they may inhibit integration and acceptance but it is understandable.
		
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I totally accept that people have grouped together in terms of where they live in the UK, that is clear to see in many areas. Brits going to Spain often do the same, Hobbit excepted 

It was the terminology that was raised in this thread that was of interest. I have not heard the use of Asian/British before, that is a new one to me.


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## Wabinez (Jun 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We only have to read social media and indeed some of the mainstream papers to see that racism , bigotry etc is always alive and bubbling away

An unarmed black American who paid for something with a forged note - ( something that has happened to many people all over the world ) is then killed by a policeman whilst other stand by and watch , it’s no doubt that if the man was white then the whole incident would never had occurred

Now instead pointing fingers directly where the blame should be with have “white” men and women looking at other areas to try and shift the blame or look at some sort of justification for it - but to ease their conscience there is always the “the police will be punished” etc

We have seen - his previous record dragged up , things that happened over a decade ago and he was released from prison after paying for his crimes 6 years ago and since then had no issue at all , but more and more people are going into that as if him losing his life doesn’t matter because in the past he committed some crimes ? Would the attitude be the same if it was a white man - of course it wouldn’t

And then you have even on this thread - shouldn’t wear their ethnicity on their sleeve, they should integrate more with us white people and remove barriers - have you not thought for one minute why those barriers are there ? Why they are scared to integrate - maybe it’s because of hundreds of years of persecution from the same people that are telling them to integrate and not be proud of their ethnicity - why they hell would people who have been persecuted all their lives want to mix with others ?

If people really want other ethnic minorities then maybe people should them as equal all the time and not when it suits, maybe instead of looking to point fingers at the victims and what they could do to stop it happening they should look at the perpetrators and also before suggesting what others should do how about living in their shoes for a while and see how for many people they suffer daily racism and persecution all because of the colour of their skin or because of their sex or their sexuality
		
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Great post.

It's been a crazy ride reading this thread.  I am on 2 forums, with threads on the same subject going crazy.  One is being discussed with intelligence, empathy, understanding, knowledge and users relaying actual life experiences where racism/sexism/sexuality'ism (may have made that one up) has had them feel persecuted out of nowhere.  It's been a great thread to read - really opening my privileged white male eyes to issues others face, and that I don't see.

Then there is this thread - where some feel that as he was a criminal many years ago, then he should have a target.  That's not how the world should work at all. full stop. end of story.


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Not just any criminal, someone who premeditated and targeted single women and robbed them & violently threatened them with a gun.

But as I clearly stated, should anyone lose their life when being arrested, or whilst in custody, no, and that crime should be dealt with by the law, as its being done.

But because I don’t see him as a rehabilitated individual, because of his past heinous crime/s, and irrelevant of his skin colour, your saying I’m EDL, seriously, that accusation is far worse imo than that of my opinion of him based on facts.
		
Click to expand...

*starts post by doubling down on murder victim being an unworthy life*

*explains why ending of unworthy life should be dealt with*

*explains further why it’s worse to suggest he holds similar views to a right wing organisation than it is for him to display right wing views*

Logical disconnect.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 2, 2020)

Wabinez said:



			Great post.

It's been a crazy ride reading this thread.  I am on 2 forums, with threads on the same subject going crazy.  One is being discussed with intelligence, empathy, understanding, knowledge and users relaying actual life experiences where racism/sexism/sexuality'ism (may have made that one up) has had them feel persecuted out of nowhere.  *It's been a great thread to read - really opening my privileged white male eyes to issues others face*, and that I don't see.

Then there is this thread - where some feel that as he was a criminal many years ago, then he should have a target.  That's not how the world should work at all. full stop. end of story.
		
Click to expand...

Hey, at least no one has piped up on here yet that white middle class middle aged to elderly males are one of the most discriminated against groups nowadays. I mean I have seen that posted on this forum a few times, but it seems we are making progress.  So every cloud and all that....


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## yandabrown (Jun 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I totally accept that people have grouped together in terms of where they live in the UK, that is clear to see in many areas. Brits going to Spain often do the same, Hobbit excepted 

It was the terminology that was raised in this thread that was of interest. I have not heard the use of Asian/British before, that is a new one to me.
		
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Our HR system has a long list of choices in our "Ethnicity" box:

Any Other, Arab, Asian - Any other Asian background, Asian - Bangladeshi, Asian – Chinese, Asian - Indian, Asian - Pakistani, Black - African, Black - Any other Black/African/Caribbean background, Black - Caribbean, Mixed - Any other Mixed/multiple ethnic background, Mixed - White and Asian, Mixed - White and Black African, Mixed - White and Black Caribbean, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, Not stated, Prefer Not to Say, White - Any other White background, White - English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British, White - Gypsy or Irish Traveller, White - Irish.

It is supplied by an American company though which might explain the Hawaii one. It does seem an odd list and probably mostly tailored to UK. I guess in the states they would also have Mexican and other South American countries too. 

I presume that it is used to check any bias that might be evident in roles/pay etc., same as for gender (just the 2 here) and sexuality (several options) though it is all optional.


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## Crazyface (Jun 2, 2020)

I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them? 
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.


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## Kellfire (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.
		
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Is the book Mein Kampf, by any chance?

Are you really suggesting a policeman should keep a man pinned down by his neck just on the off chance he runs away and shoots him?

What kind of insane nonsense are you talking?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.
		
Click to expand...

9 minutes he had a knee on the guys neck, 9 minutes. At the same time two other officers were knelt on him, back and legs. I am not aware they made attempts to cuff him during this, the polic officer just kept the knee on his neck. The man does not seem to be making attempts to wriggle away during this, he just lies there.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? *And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?*
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.
		
Click to expand...

Morons?  @MetalMickie has the answer to why they were protesting and I don't think he considers them morons.

_The answer, therefore, is that those protesting in the UK were expressing sympathy and support for the cause of Black Lives Matter. _


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 2, 2020)

yandabrown said:



			Our HR system has a long list of choices in our "Ethnicity" box:

Any Other, Arab, Asian - Any other Asian background, Asian - Bangladeshi, Asian – Chinese, Asian - Indian, Asian - Pakistani, Black - African, Black - Any other Black/African/Caribbean background, Black - Caribbean, Mixed - Any other Mixed/multiple ethnic background, Mixed - White and Asian, Mixed - White and Black African, Mixed - White and Black Caribbean, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, Not stated, Prefer Not to Say, White - Any other White background, White - English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British, White - Gypsy or Irish Traveller, White - Irish.

It is supplied by an American company though which might explain the Hawaii one. It does seem an odd list and probably mostly tailored to UK. I guess in the states they would also have Mexican and other South American countries too.

I presume that it is used to check any bias that might be evident in roles/pay etc., same as for gender (just the 2 here) and sexuality (several options) though it is all optional.
		
Click to expand...

I understand the box system at work, it is needed in larger companies in particular to ensure there is not hidden racism, sexism at work. I suppose the aspect I was looking, and some others, was how people refer to themselves as something other than just from the country you are born and raised in, a double barrel naming in effect. 

I'm impressed by the Hawaiian option, very funky


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## JamesR (Jun 2, 2020)

Do people really think the protests are only about George Floyd being murdered?

They are about the hundreds of black men and women murdered by police for generations.

The inequality of life for a group originally brought into the country as slaves. Who now live on the wrong side of the tracks with the wrong colour skin, who’s life opportunities and chances are automatically reduced purely because of those facts.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me?* I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details*. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) *before they take control*.
		
Click to expand...

You been hacked again?  

And trying to see both sides without knowing the 'fully details' is a great tactic. As I feel context, details and facts are way over rated when you can use wild supposition and preconceived ideas ideas. 

And part of me wants to know who 'they' is who will take control.  But then again another part of me kind of doesn't.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 2, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Do people really think the protests are only about George Floyd being murdered?

They are about the hundreds of black men and women murdered by police for generations.

The inequality of life for a group originally brought into the country as slaves. Who now live on the wrong side of the tracks with the wrong colour skin, *who’s life opportunities and chances are automatically reduced purely because of those facts.*

Click to expand...

And who are being disproportionately impacted by Covid and the economic downturn and have a president who at the very least, seems slow to criticize white supremist views. Surprised its taken this long to be honest.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 2, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			And part of me wants to know who 'they' is who will take control.  But then again another part of me kind of doesn't.
		
Click to expand...

I found that reference a trifle disturbing but like you I, perhaps wrongly, decided to gloss over it.


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## JamesR (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. *Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.*

Click to expand...

They've already taken control: Trump, Johnson, Putin, Bolsonaro etc - very frightening


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## SocketRocket (Jun 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We only have to read social media and indeed some of the mainstream papers to see that racism , bigotry etc is always alive and bubbling away

An unarmed black American who paid for something with a forged note - ( something that has happened to many people all over the world ) is then killed by a policeman whilst other stand by and watch , it’s no doubt that if the man was white then the whole incident would never had occurred

Now instead pointing fingers directly where the blame should be with have “white” men and women looking at other areas to try and shift the blame or look at some sort of justification for it - but to ease their conscience there is always the “the police will be punished” etc

We have seen - his previous record dragged up , things that happened over a decade ago and he was released from prison after paying for his crimes 6 years ago and since then had no issue at all , but more and more people are going into that as if him losing his life doesn’t matter because in the past he committed some crimes ? Would the attitude be the same if it was a white man - of course it wouldn’t
*
then you have even on this thread - shouldn’t wear their ethnicity on their sleeve, they should integrate more with us white people and remove barriers - have you not thought for one minute why those barriers are there ? Why they are scared to integrate - maybe it’s because of hundreds of years of persecution from the same people that are telling them to integrate and not be proud of their ethnicity - why they hell would people who have been persecuted all their lives want to mix with others ?*

If people really want other ethnic minorities then maybe people should them as equal all the time and not when it suits, maybe instead of looking to point fingers at the victims and what they could do to stop it happening they should look at the perpetrators and also before suggesting what others should do how about living in their shoes for a while and see how for many people they suffer daily racism and persecution all because of the colour of their skin or because of their sex or their sexuality
		
Click to expand...

I didnt want to post on this anymore as I thought what I said would be twisted out of context by you, I was not wrong. 
I never suggested Black people had to integrate more with us white people and remove barriers, you have made that accusation through your own blind predujice to turn my words into something you want them to be.  I suggested we could all get along better if we stopped labeling ourselves, 'all of us' not just black people.   Take a look at yourself.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.
		
Click to expand...

So people who demonstrate against Racist and Persecution are now labelled “morons” ?!

Racism and Persecution is not just limited to the US - it’s very much alive in the UK as well and maybe this is now the time to highlight around the world to try and get people to change their attitudes

And please do enlighten us and what this book is ?


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So people who demonstrate against Racist and Persecution are now labelled “morons” ?!

Racism and Persecution is not just limited to the US - it’s very much alive in the UK as well and maybe this is now the time to highlight around the world to try and get people to change their attitudes

*And please do enlighten us and what this book is ?*

Click to expand...

I think it's this and he's frightened once the Mr. Men come to power we will be tickled to death.  Or we won't be able to stop sneezing.


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## Captainron (Jun 2, 2020)

America has huge issues. Doesn’t help that the person at the top is a loose cannon either.


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## User20205 (Jun 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So people who demonstrate against Racist and Persecution are now labelled “morons” ?!

Racism and Persecution is not just limited to the US - it’s very much alive in the UK as well and maybe this is now the time to highlight around the world to try and get people to change their attitudes

And please do enlighten us and what this book is ?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure he should be allowed on the interweb!!! He’s either being hacked or posting gibberish. Surely his responsible adult should apply some parental controls


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## IanM (Jun 2, 2020)

Keeping out of it, but having read this, some reminder of definitions might be helpful, but of course it won't due to part of the following!  

- The US Police -  a group of hard working public servants who put their lives in danger every day
- Racist Scum - a group of scumbags who do a range of jobs, any jobs actually,  including Police Officer!
- Bigot - someone who has entrenched views based on prejudice  - can be either left or right wing. 
- Demonstrator(s) - a person or persons who exercise their legal right to demonstrate peacefully and within the law
- Rioters and Looters - people who exploit situations for their own ends for political gain or to obtain new trainers/TVs!
- Media Outlet - a communications organisation who promote the agenda of their proprietor or financial backers.   Can also be left or right wing


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## pokerjoke (Jun 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We only have to read social media and indeed some of the mainstream papers to see that racism , bigotry etc is always alive and bubbling away 

An unarmed black American who paid for something with a forged note - ( something that has happened to many people all over the world ) is then killed by a policeman whilst other stand by and watch , it’s no doubt that if the man was white then the whole incident would never had occurred 

Now instead pointing fingers directly where the blame should be with have “white” men and women looking at other areas to try and shift the blame or look at some sort of justification for it - but to ease their conscience there is always the “the police will be punished” etc 

We have seen - his previous record dragged up , things that happened over a decade ago and he was released from prison after paying for his crimes 6 years ago and since then had no issue at all , but more and more people are going into that as if him losing his life doesn’t matter because in the past he committed some crimes ? Would the attitude be the same if it was a white man - of course it wouldn’t 

And then you have even on this thread - shouldn’t wear their ethnicity on their sleeve, they should integrate more with us white people and remove barriers - have you not thought for one minute why those barriers are there ? Why they are scared to integrate - maybe it’s because of hundreds of years of persecution from the same people that are telling them to integrate and not be proud of their ethnicity - why they hell would people who have been persecuted all their lives want to mix with others ?

If people really want other ethnic minorities then maybe people should them as equal all the time and not when it suits, maybe instead of looking to point fingers at the victims and what they could do to stop it happening they should look at the perpetrators and also before suggesting what others should do how about living in their shoes for a while and see how for many people they suffer daily racism and persecution all because of the colour of their skin or because of their sex or their sexuality
		
Click to expand...

Interesting 2nd paragraph 
The video clip I saw where he was pinned to the ground there were other police guarding,no doubt with Tazers,pepper sprays even a gun.
There was a guy demonstrating and even mentioned he was killing him.
Now even that guy could see it what do you expect him to do under those circumstances.
In fact what would you have done.
Easier said than done from the safety of your sofa.
People were watching but they had no option.
That’s the video I saw.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? A*nd morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?*
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.
		
Click to expand...

Here you go, an explanation for you why the 'morons' are demonstrating. But please don't assume all morons demonstrated, as it's pretty clear some morons did not as they were posting on golf forums at the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52877803


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 2, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			I think it's this and he's frightened once the Mr. Men come to power we will be tickled to death.  Or we won't be able to stop sneezing.

View attachment 30996

Click to expand...

Replace the "T" with an "F", and it may be an autobiography, some may surmise?


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## AmandaJR (Jun 2, 2020)

Whilst looting and causing damage doesn't help it begs the question of what comes first. The spark was lawlessness on the part of the very body that is meant to uphold the law. So the unwritten "contract" which keeps many on the right side of the law has been broken by the lawmakers so begs the question "why should I uphold the law if they can't". For sure some opportunists will take advantage but many of those looting could argue "why shouldn't I".

Add to that generations of oppression that never seems to change. Poor living conditions and limited opportunities that never seem to change and "hell yeah - I'll help myself to the 60" TV I'll never be able to afford."

Fortunately for us, we'll never walk a mile in their shoes.


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## JamesR (Jun 2, 2020)

Not really a radio one listener but Clara Amfo was brilliant in her statement today.
Perhaps someone more tech able would be able to Provide a link ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Not really a radio one listener but Clara Amfo was brilliant in her statement today.
Perhaps someone more tech able would be able to Provide a link ?
		
Click to expand...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267782930165891076
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertainment-arts-52890690


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## JamesR (Jun 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267782930165891076
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertainment-arts-52890690

Click to expand...

Thanks Phil, new I could rely on you👍


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## Cherry13 (Jun 2, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Thanks Phil, new I could rely on you👍
		
Click to expand...

Very powerful and moving.  I also found the attached an excellent read. An article from Maurice Allen 
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/being-black-in-a-white-sport


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## sunshine (Jun 2, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Does any other country have its citizens break themselves down into categories, as mentioned, as much as in America? There are plenty that will have a single distinct group, Turkish Kurds is an example, but I can't think of anywhere else that has so many. Interested to hear other examples if people can think of anywhere.

I'm with some of the others on this, it can not be healthy to have such distintctions.
		
Click to expand...

Loads of countries.

If you think about it, loads of countries have fierce divisions based on ethnic or religious background. It's led to civil war, genocide, partition. Rwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo, Myanmar are all recent examples. Many many more.


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## sunshine (Jun 2, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.
		
Click to expand...

I assume "they" refers to aliens. I can't work out what book you are referring to, it must be a comic or some other book with big pictures.


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## JamesR (Jun 2, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Very powerful and moving.  I also found the attached an excellent read. An article from Maurice Allen
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/being-black-in-a-white-sport

Click to expand...

Very good read.
Cheers
other interesting stories I’ve read have been about a white player driving across the south with Charlie Sifford.
And amazingly, even worse, about the “Battle Royales”which were held at Augusta back in the day...black kids, blindfolded & with one arm tied behind their backs (so they couldn’t defend themselves) , fighting for the master’s entertainment. I understand James Brown fought in some of these


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## sunshine (Jun 2, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Morons?  @MetalMickie has the answer to why they were protesting and I don't think he considers them morons.

_The answer, therefore, is that those protesting in the UK were expressing sympathy and support for the cause of Black Lives Matter. _

Click to expand...

Are you sure about this? Not protesting against Brexit?


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## Fish (Jun 3, 2020)

Interesting take on things..




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=180036896733431


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268064143980015616
This sums up America


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			Interesting take on things..




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=180036896733431



Click to expand...

It’s good that he is suggesting to tackle the real issue that has caused it all - the racism and persecution of non whites in American . Tackle that first and create a better lives for them to life 🙄


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			Interesting take on things..




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=180036896733431



Click to expand...

It is interesting, that’s for sure. I’m surprised he didn’t put on his klan uniform and show us his favourite lynching irons.


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## Wilson (Jun 3, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			I had discussion on this with a mate yesterday on the course. He was outraged. Me? I do try and see both sides, even without knowing the fully details. What had actually happened to cause the arrest? I'm sure the cop had heard the "I can't breathe" thing a million times. So he gets off and the man runs away or stabs him or shoots him. It's a nasty dangerous job being a cop in any country, but in the USA. nutz to that. Sure things went very very wrong, and I feel for both sides, but full on riots? Really? And morons in this country demonstrating in solidarity? Morons? Just what the hell has this got too do with them?
All this is reinforcing a book I'm reading (only just started it) I've a feeling I don't really need to continue with it. It's a scary book, if you are a certain type of person. Just be glad you'll be long gone (hopefully) before they take control.
		
Click to expand...

The owners of the shop in which he used the fake $20 have posted a statement, it explains that they have to call the Police under a local law, and that it was the Police who escalated the situation, worth a read.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2020)

Someone asked their local MP to condemn Trumps handling 

This is his response







and to give insight into the sort of person he is 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268064143980015616
This sums up America
		
Click to expand...

No it doesnt, it sums up some people in the USA. The vast majority of citizens are peaceful good people and its disingenuous to suggest they are all gun carrying, red neck racists.


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## Dan2501 (Jun 3, 2020)

The Twitter thread in the first post now has even more shocking videos. There's one of the Police in Philadelphia where they've trapped protesters against a wall, blocked them in from both sides and then proceed to tear gas and shoot them with rubber bullets. Horrendous. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267652130506108928


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2020)

There is a great 5live discussion with John Amaechi


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267842819080826880
He also posted this - how many of us have heard these sort of responses as excuses


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			It is interesting, that’s for sure. I’m surprised he didn’t put on his klan uniform and show us his favourite lynching irons.
		
Click to expand...

You really are a [mod edit] to link White Supremecist evil scum like the Klan to this speach that is all about enforcing law and order with local police backed by the guard. He espouses the right to protest but calls out the Antifa leftist anarchists, looters and media for spreading the sort of rubbish you are saying. I don't know who the guy is but i heard nothing in any way racist with a long message about enforcing the law!


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			You really are a [mod edit] to link White Supremecist evil scum like the Klan to this speach that is all about enforcing law and order with local police backed by the guard. He espouses the right to protest but calls out the Antifa leftist anarchists, looters and media for spreading the sort of rubbish you are saying. I don't know who the guy is but i heard nothing in any way racist with a long message about enforcing the law!
		
Click to expand...

The subtext is plain if you’re opening to hearing it.


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			The subtext is plain if you’re opening to hearing it.
		
Click to expand...

There is no sub text about you linking someone who said nothing racist and only advocating clamping down on criminals to being Klu Klux Klan. That is the worst sort of blatent leftist liberal utter tosh I have seen and makes you as bad as the people on the other side of the spectrum


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## funkycoldmedina (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			There is no sub text about you linking someone who said nothing racist and only advocating clamping down on criminals to being Klu Klux Klan. That is the worst sort of blatent leftist liberal utter tosh I have seen and makes you as bad as the people on the other side of the spectrum
		
Click to expand...

There is a subtext though isn't there? I grant you it's not KKK, that's a stretch but he's using his former role in law enforcement to discuss how to crush the lefties. I only got to 8 minutes so he may well have said more but their was no contrition as to role his former employers in bringing the US to this point. I would suggest that if his view points are prevalent in the US justice system this issue will never go away.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268064143980015616
This sums up America
		
Click to expand...

That's the same sort of sweeping generalisation that gives rise to racism.


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

Phil's post with the pic of the armed folk outside their houses encapsulates the crisis perfectly.......... folk see what they choose to see, and that is applicable from either perspective.  

Therein lies the lesson......not one I see being learned on the streets of America any time soon, or on these pages either.  Sadly.


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			You really are a [mod edit] to link White Supremecist evil scum like the Klan to this speach that is all about enforcing law and order with local police backed by the guard. He espouses the right to protest but calls out the Antifa leftist anarchists, looters and media for spreading the sort of rubbish you are saying. I don't know who the guy is but i heard nothing in any way racist with a long message about enforcing the law!
		
Click to expand...

The guy’s a known mouthpiece for Trump.


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

funkycoldmedina said:



			There is a subtext though isn't there? I grant you it's not KKK, that's a stretch but he's using his former role in law enforcement to discuss how to crush the lefties. I only got to 8 minutes so he may well have said more but their was no contrition as to role his former employers in bringing the US to this point. I would suggest that if his view points are prevalent in the US justice system this issue will never go away.
		
Click to expand...

there are plenty of things out there from far right white supremecists and all the other scum on that side of the fence to criticise but i disagree that someone who promotes law and order and the right to demonstrate should be tarred with the same brush and i don't buy subtext in this context as that is stretching things too far.


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

gmc40 said:



			The guy’s a known mouthpiece for Trump.
		
Click to expand...

who cares who he supports - half the country support Trump - no reason in any way to link this bloke (and no idea who he is or what he has said elsewhere) with the Klu Klux Klan for giving a pro law-and-order and peaceful-protest speach - that sort of subtext link is fule for Antifa hooligans


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			who cares who he supports - half the country support Trump - no reason in any way to link this bloke (and no idea who he is or what he has said elsewhere) with the Klu Klux Klan for giving a pro law-and-order and peaceful-protest speach - that sort of subtext link is fule for Antifa hooligans
		
Click to expand...

For me if it was just rioting that was going on then he has a point - but he is just like Trump , he is ignoring what’s going on behind it all and why it’s happening.

There are hundreds of thousands of peaceful protests going on right now and they are being faced by his police and national guard in a show of force , peaceful demonstrators are being attacked by tear gas or rubber bullets etc - he doesn’t appear to be tackling the overreaction brutality of his police force and national guard. 

Yes rioters need to be punished but that’s just a small proportion of what’s happening and just like Trump he is deflecting everything away from the real issues and pointing it all at the looters


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me if it was just rioting that was going on then he has a point - but he is just like Trump , he is ignoring what’s going on behind it all and why it’s happening.

There are hundreds of thousands of peaceful protests going on right now and they are being faced by his police and national guard in a show of force , peaceful demonstrators are being attacked by tear gas or rubber bullets etc - he doesn’t appear to be tackling the overreaction brutality of his police force and national guard.

Yes rioters need to be punished but that’s just a small proportion of what’s happening and just like Trump he is deflecting everything away from the real issues and pointing it all at the looters
		
Click to expand...

But this bloke - whoever he is and whatever beliefs he has - has not said anyting racist and has condemmed rioters and looters while also advocated perfectly legal protest. Nothing harmful in that. Could he have balanced his views by condeming the police killing of George Floyd - yes - as he could condemn the several poilce killed/ injured by rioters. But just becuase he focused on 1. Cracking down on the rioters and 2. Advocating lawful public demonstrations - he should not be linked to Klu Klux klan or the ilk. There are many issues in all of this and just because someone does not cover the full spectrum does not mean they are racist or that there is a subtext - plenty of legitimate targets for this sort of behaviour but i do not think this should be


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## tugglesf239 (Jun 3, 2020)

Can see both sides of this 

Unfortunatly whislt i agree on many, many, many points raised by the left leaning peole involved in this. Being fairly centerist i am sure i am just a whisker away from being denounced as a racist facist boomer white male pig

So i wont bother a peep.

The whole situation is an absolute tragedy and the amount of partisan excuse makers on both sides is sickening. Racist bingo slides whilst a comical are just a sure fire way of shutting down any form of usefull and challanging conversation imo.

We are in a right poo state because lets be honest. Geniune and somtimes credable opinions are blown out of the water under a guise of hatred and shrieks of abuse. 

honest feeling is we are screwed full stop as people are indoctronated to hate at both ends of the spectrum. Were stuck and always will be in a stale mate with parties that cant stop denouncing every aspect of the thoir oppositions very being, especially thier thoughts.

its a ruddy mess


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

tugglesf239 said:



			Can see both sides of this

Unfortunatly whislt i agree on many, many, many points raised by the left leaning peole involved in this. Being fairly centerist i am sure i am just a whisker away from being denounced as a racist facist boomer white male pig

So i wont bother a peep.

The whole situation is an absolute tragedy and the amount of partisan excuse makers on both sides is sickening. Racist bingo slides whilst a comical are just a sure fire way of shutting down any form of usefull and challanging conversation imo.

We are in a right poo state because lets be honest. Geniune and somtimes credable opinions are blown out of the water under a guise of hatred and shrieks of abuse.

honest feeling is we are screwed full stop as people are indoctronated to hate at both ends of the spectrum. Were stuck and always will be in a stale mate with parties that cant stop denouncing every aspect of the thoir oppositions very being, especially thier thoughts.

its a ruddy mess
		
Click to expand...

That's a really good post, well said.


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			There is no sub text about you linking someone who said nothing racist and only advocating clamping down on criminals to being Klu Klux Klan. That is the worst sort of blatent leftist liberal utter tosh I have seen and makes you as bad as the people on the other side of the spectrum
		
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Antifa aren’t criminals.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Antifa aren’t criminals.
		
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Looks like they are to me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2020)

tugglesf239 said:



			Can see both sides of this

Unfortunatly whislt i agree on many, many, many points raised by the left leaning peole involved in this. Being fairly centerist i am sure i am just a whisker away from being denounced as a racist facist boomer white male pig

So i wont bother a peep.

The whole situation is an absolute tragedy and the amount of partisan excuse makers on both sides is sickening. Racist bingo slides whilst a comical are just a sure fire way of shutting down any form of usefull and challanging conversation imo.

We are in a right poo state because lets be honest. Geniune and somtimes credable opinions are blown out of the water under a guise of hatred and shrieks of abuse.

honest feeling is we are screwed full stop as people are indoctronated to hate at both ends of the spectrum. Were stuck and always will be in a stale mate with parties that cant stop denouncing every aspect of the thoir oppositions very being, especially thier thoughts.

its a ruddy mess
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately no matter what happens in the future and how much people try and educate each other it’s just not going to go away - there will always be some persecution based on age, colour , sex , race , sexual discrimination. It’s been happening since the day we walked the earth and will continue to do so whilst humans roam the earth. 

The human race is never going to be perfect , it’s impossible , currently the awareness of some situations has been highlighted and if it helps change some people’s attitudes then it’s a step forward but yes you are right it’s very hard for everyone to sit down and find a solution - because there isn’t one and it always gets emotive and heated. The racist bingo slide 99% covers a lot of things but as you say it doesn’t fit all and should have a caveat attached to it. 

I think what also helps when these discussions happen is knowing the other person or at very least having sat down and conversed with the other person - I have sat down with some on the forum and we have had hard conversations but you see the other person and can get the angle and attitude where as maybe myself included judge the people who you havent seen a bit different because it’s just words on the screen with zero emotion attached. 

Ultimately you are spot on Hatred will always be there at the polar ends


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Antifa aren’t criminals.
		
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It is impossible to make any real claims either way regarding antifa.

In many ways there is no such thing as the term is really describing a very loose collection of individuals and groups. 

Some are not averse to violence and thus could be described  as  criminals. 

Many, probably the majority believe in peaceful protest and resistance and it would be wrong to apply the same label.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 3, 2020)

tugglesf239 said:



			Can see both sides of this

Unfortunatly whislt i agree on many, many, many points raised by the left leaning peole involved in this. Being fairly centerist i am sure i am just a whisker away from being denounced as a racist facist boomer white male pig

So i wont bother a peep.

The whole situation is an absolute tragedy and the amount of partisan excuse makers on both sides is sickening. Racist bingo slides whilst a comical are just a sure fire way of shutting down any form of usefull and challanging conversation imo.

We are in a right poo state because lets be honest. Geniune and somtimes credable opinions are blown out of the water under a guise of hatred and shrieks of abuse.

honest feeling is we are screwed full stop as people are indoctronated to hate at both ends of the spectrum. *Were stuck and always will be in a stale mate* with parties that cant stop denouncing every aspect of the thoir oppositions very being, especially thier thoughts.

its a ruddy mess
		
Click to expand...

Sometimes people have had enough of the stalemate and a dog whistling president, in this case many black people in the US and also in other countries, and take the only actions they feel they have left.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			Sometimes people have had enough of the stalemate and a dog whistling president, in this case many black people in the US and also in other countries, and take the only actions they feel they have left.
		
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Rioting and looting cant be acceptable ones though.  There has to be a better way.


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			It is impossible to make any real claims either way regarding antifa.

In many ways there is no such thing as the term is really describing a very loose collection of individuals and groups.

Some are not averse to violence and thus could be described  as  criminals.

Many, probably the majority believe in peaceful protest and resistance and it would be wrong to apply the same label.
		
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Many policemen are criminals but I wouldn’t call policemen criminals.


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

Strewth, Antifa not criminals?  So why do they always wear masks?   

My apologies, i am mistaken.  Calendar Girls was that film about the Yorkshire Dales Branch of ANIFA and they did the nudie calendar.

Actually, that saddens me... I usually have huge respect for that guy


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Antifa aren’t criminals.
		
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so having a logo representing anarchism and communism with a policy agenda of direct action where violence and property damage is perfectly acceptable must make them good loony left-wing individuals? Real poster boys for the deranged


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			so having a logo representing anarchism and communism with a policy agenda of direct action where violence and property damage is perfectly acceptable must make them good loony left-wing individuals? Real poster boys for the deranged
		
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Some advocate violence and property damage. Not all. Like some policemen lean on the necks of minorities. Not all. 

I assume you think anarchy or communism are immediately bad things?


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Some advocate violence and property damage. Not all. Like some policemen lean on the necks of minorities. Not all.

I assume you think anarchy or communism are immediately bad things?
		
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And policeman who break the law should and often do get punished. The same as anyone else. But 99.9% of them are hardly criminal and their intensions are to uphold the law. That is completely different to a group (criminal group) that has law-breaking at as a core aim in order to push its loony-left goals

And yes i think anarchy and communism are bad things - i prefer the rule of law and democracy as i believe most peolpe do - especially people like Uighurs who are totally oppressed and killed off under glorious Chinese communism. I presume you don't?


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			And policeman who break the law should and often do get punished. The same as anyone else. But 99.9% of them are hardly criminal and their intensions are to uphold the law. That is completely different to a group (criminal group) that has law-breaking at as a core aim in order to push its loony-left goals

And yes i think anarchy and communism are bad things - i prefer the rule of law and democracy as i believe most peolpe do - especially people like Uighurs who are totally oppressed and killed off under glorious Chinese communism. I presume you don't?
		
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You don’t understand what anarchy and communism are. I’ll bet you think the Nazis were socialist?


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			You don’t understand what anarchy and communism are. I’ll bet you think the Nazis were socialist?
		
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..ah. Not long before the Nazi's make an appearance along with the Klu Klux Klan and the notions that i don't understand things. There has never and never will be a succesful communist state - it is a nnirvana dreamt up by ideological left loonies. Communist experiments always go wrong, lead to bigger social injustices, greater discrimination, elimations of right, privilages, free speach, more cronyism and division between the workers and elite. Must be your sort of paradise...


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Many policemen are criminals but I wouldn’t call policemen criminals.
		
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Just goes to show the danger of generalisation!🤔


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Many policemen are criminals but I wouldn’t call policemen criminals.
		
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Many Policemen are criminals, really!
All looters are criminals but all criminals are not looters.


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

Nazis?  In Germany? National Socialism to use their own phrase.  Advocated mass state ownership and control of the education system.  (sounds a bit like Momentum to me!)   Is that left or right??? 

Yep they were socialists.  Inconvenient truth.  They were also mass murderers.  You can have lefty killers you know... Communism did for a few folk over the years...and that chap Pol Pot?  Hardly Tory was he?

Interesting the first definition of Fascism I saw on Google said "_characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy_"    - blimey, that's also communism, isn't it??  

Bede made mention of this 2300 years ago


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## JamesR (Jun 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Many Policemen are criminals, really!...
		
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Not sure if you are questioning this or agreeing, but it can’t be a surprise that there are Policemen who break the law regularly.
Whether they illegally kill people, take money for protection, work for organised crime etc.
But far from the majority of course.


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

IanM said:



			Nazis?  In Germany? National Socialism to use their own phrase.  Advocated mass state ownership and control of the education system.  (sounds a bit like Momentum to me!)   Is that left or right???

Yep they were socialists.  Inconvenient truth.  They were also mass murderers.  You can have lefty killers you know... Communism did for a few folk over the years...and that chap Pol Pot?  Hardly Tory was he?

Interesting the first definition of Fascism I saw on Google said "_characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy_"    - blimey, that's also communism, isn't it?? 

Bede made mention of this 2300 years ago  

Click to expand...

I can sum this up as WRONG.

But I know people don’t like that here so I’ll link you to a very simple explanation - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.britannica.com/amp/story/were-the-nazis-socialists


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			..ah. Not long before the Nazi's make an appearance along with the Klu Klux Klan and the notions that i don't understand things. There has never and never will be a succesful communist state - it is a nnirvana dreamt up by ideological left loonies. Communist experiments always go wrong, lead to bigger social injustices, greater discrimination, elimations of right, privilages, free speach, more cronyism and division between the workers and elite. Must be your sort of paradise...
		
Click to expand...

Well you don’t understand things. Communism in its purist form is the best form of government if you’d even call that a form of government. It’s not a bad thing to aspire to as much as possible. We shouldn’t look at the USSR or China for true communism as it’s anything but that.


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Well you don’t understand things. Communism in its purist form is the best form of government if you’d even call that a form of government. It’s not a bad thing to aspire to as much as possible. We shouldn’t look at the USSR or China for true communism as it’s anything but that.
		
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The truest form of aspirational society that cannot and never will exist in any way like the Liberal lefties who aspire to this impossible nirvana. 

And there again thanks for reminding me that I Don't understand things. Where would we all be if it weren't for you delusional dreamers to point out the errors of our ways.


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Well you don’t understand things. Communism in its purist form is the best form of government if you’d even call that a form of government. It’s not a bad thing to aspire to as much as possible. We shouldn’t look at the USSR or China for true communism as it’s anything but that.
		
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so, I apologise... so, you just said Nazis stopped being socialist when your website says so, and the communism is "the best form of government" but when causes uniform poverty and death, we'll call it something else.

I am now suitably educated,  many thanks


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			who cares who he supports - half the country support Trump - no reason in any way to link this bloke (and no idea who he is or what he has said elsewhere) with the Klu Klux Klan for giving a pro law-and-order and peaceful-protest speach - that sort of subtext link is fule for Antifa hooligans
		
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I care who he supports. 

Trump mouthpiece = no credibility = opinion not valid.


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

gmc40 said:



			I care who he supports.

Trump mouthpiece = no credibility = opinion not valid.
		
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Poor you. The majority of US electorate voted for Trump - many in reality for the party not the individual - so that leaves a lot of the world's biggest economy without a say in your view


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

Police now being attacked by Antifa in London. 

But I guess that's ok by some on here.


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## funkycoldmedina (Jun 3, 2020)

So we've somehow made systemic racism in the US into a problem of the left and antifa. 
Got to say Trumps tactics of creating a bogeyman works wonders every time.


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## Fish (Jun 3, 2020)

IanM said:



			Police now being attacked by Antifa in London.

But I guess that's ok by some on here.
		
Click to expand...

And if this is true and happened today, then the looting is only hours away!


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			Poor you. The majority of US electorate voted for Trump - many in reality for the party not the individual - so that leaves a lot of the world's biggest economy without a say in your view
		
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Incorrect. The majority actually voted for Clinton.

Interesting comment re: voting for the party and not the individual. The GOP’s credibility is pretty much shot after the way they’ve fallen into line behind Trump. People will continue to vote for them if they are stupid, it benefits them personally or the party legitimises their prejudices, that will always happen.

Hopefully enough will see the light and vote against him/his party in November. And with any luck he’ll end up in jail.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Not sure if you are questioning this or agreeing, but it can’t be a surprise that there are Policemen who break the law regularly.
Whether they illegally kill people, take money for protection, work for organised crime etc.
But far from the majority of course.
		
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I am questioning the statement that 'Many' Policemen are criminals.  To me that's a ridiculous statement. I would suggest that 'No' Policemen are criminals or if they are the numbers must be miniscule. To be a criminal they should have been found guilty of a crime, not a suspect but guilty, as such how many such Policemen would stay in their jobs, I suggest not many or even none, well not in any major democracy.
Regarding Policemen that break the law, there must be some that do but again 'Many' must be an exaggeration. These type of debates always seem to use exaggerated accusations to defend a particular point of view and I believe this is what is happening here, we have seen suggestions here that what happened 'Is America' as if the whole population or probably 'White population' are gun carrying, racist red necks, it's just sensationalist talk and helping nothing.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

Fish said:



			And if this is true and happened today, then the looting is only hours away!
View attachment 31023

Click to expand...

As if we dont have enough to deal with already.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 3, 2020)

359 People..............

Protests in London, attacking Police, no social distancing.

Disgusted by people of all race/colour/religion in this Country today.

359 People................

Just remember who it is that runs towards the attackers next time terrorists attack and who has to try and rebuild the bodies in the hospitals.

It’s an insult to all our Emergency Services, probably find most of those protesting today will be out clapping on thursday night.

359 People.................


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

IanM said:



			so, I apologise... so, you just said Nazis stopped being socialist when your website says so, and the communism is "the best form of government" but when causes uniform poverty and death, we'll call it something else.

I am now suitably educated,  many thanks
		
Click to expand...

You’re really not very good at this understanding thing.


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## Kellfire (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			The majority of US electorate voted for Trump -
		
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No they didn’t. Facts aren’t your strongpoint today.


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

gmc40 said:



			Incorrect. T*he majority actually voted for Clinton.*

Interesting comment re: voting for the party and not the individual. The GOP’s credibility is pretty much shot after the way they’ve fallen into line behind Trump. People will continue to vote for them if they are stupid, it benefits them personally or the party legitimises their prejudices, that will always happen.

Hopefully enough will see the light and vote against him/his party in November. And with any luck he’ll end up in jail.
		
Click to expand...

ok - splittinh hairs. Change to number of people neede to win the election. But that is not my point. I was not refering to Trump earlier only about the man who did the video. To repeat my point - it doesn't matter if he supports Trump or not, i was commenting on what he said. You bring in Trump and say that amnyone who is Republican should have no say as they are stupid because they voted for him. Not worth debating that point


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			I am questioning the statement that 'Many' Policemen are criminals.  To me that's a ridiculous statement. I would suggest that 'No' Policemen are criminals or if they are the numbers must be miniscule. _*To be a criminal they should have been found guilty of a crime, not a suspect but guilty*_, as such how many such Policemen would stay in their jobs, I suggest not many or even none, well not in any major democracy.
Regarding Policemen that break the law, there must be some that do but again 'Many' must be an exaggeration. These type of debates always seem to use exaggerated accusations to defend a particular point of view and I believe this is what is happening here, we have seen suggestions here that what happened 'Is America' as if the whole population or probably 'White population' are gun carrying, racist red necks, it's just sensationalist talk and helping nothing.
		
Click to expand...

No, to be a criminal they only need to have committed a crime


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			No they didn’t. Facts aren’t your strongpoint today.
		
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you win - actually something you said is right - i stand corrected. But he won the majority of electoral votes in the election. Does not change the point.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			No, to be a criminal they only need to have committed a crime
		
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I disagree, it's someone charged with and found guilty of a crime. If someone is charged with a crime and found innocent they are not a criminal.


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			ok - splittinh hairs. Change to number of people neede to win the election. But that is not my point. I was not refering to Trump earlier only about the man who did the video. To repeat my point - it doesn't matter if he supports Trump or not, i was commenting on what he said. You bring in Trump and say that amnyone who is Republican should have no say as they are stupid because they voted for him. Not worth debating that point
		
Click to expand...

Just to address your points;

1. Not splitting hairs, you stated the majority voted for Trump which wasn’t true so I corrected you

2. You referred to the man in the video stating you didn’t know who he was. I told you he was a very vocal trump supporter. This may not matter to you but to me it does. Trump supporter = no credibility therefore opinion not valid. I did actually watch the video for about a minute and had to turn it off. The man’s a nob.

3. I didn’t say they were stupid, I said some are. The others who voted for him are in it for their own self interests or because he legitimises their prejudices. Speaking of stupid Trump supporters though;

Trump Rally


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## fundy (Jun 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			I disagree, it's someone charged with and found guilty of a crime. If someone is charged with a crime and found innocent they are not a criminal.
		
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well my dictionary says the definition of a criminal is someone who has committed a crime, has nothing to do with being charged or the verdict in the case, the act of committing the crime makes you a criminal not what happens in court


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## JamesR (Jun 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			I disagree, it's someone charged with and found guilty of a crime. If someone is charged with a crime and found innocent they are not a criminal.
		
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So if I go out and rob a bank and never get caught, charged and convicted, I’m not a criminal ?


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			you win - actually something you said is right - i stand corrected. But he won the majority of electoral votes in the election. Does not change the point.
		
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No he didn’t. Try again


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			So if I go out and rob a bank and never get caught, charged and convicted, I’m not a criminal ?
		
Click to expand...

Depends.  Are you an anarchist?


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## JamesR (Jun 3, 2020)

IanM said:



			Depends.  Are you an anarchist? 

Click to expand...

I’m anti-facist & believe that Black Lives Matter


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			I’m anti-facist & believe that Black Lives Matter
		
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Me too.  Hope you realise what I meant...

  I marched with the ANL back in the day, that got into issues trying to control unwanted elements that attached themselves...my grandad got a record for bashing black shirts in the East End before the War... Thought I'd heard most things but I'm really shocked by what I've read on here today.... from several regulars.  Or should that be horrified?


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

fundy said:



			well my dictionary says the definition of a criminal is someone who has committed a crime, has nothing to do with being charged or the verdict in the case, the act of committing the crime makes you a criminal not what happens in court
		
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This is from the Legal Dictionary.
*criminal*

*1* a person convicted of CRIME.
*2* of, involving, or guilty of CRIME.


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			So if I go out and rob a bank and never get caught, charged and convicted, I’m not a criminal ?
		
Click to expand...

Not in the legal terms, No.   You are a Bank Robber but have not been found guilty or convicted. You are not guilty of committing a crime or a criminal unless you are found guilty or pleaded guilty and been convicted.
These semantics dont detract from the accusation that 'Many' Policemen are criminals whether they are convicted or not. If you believe it to be true then please explain what you base that on.


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## JamesR (Jun 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			This is from the Legal Dictionary.
*criminal*

*1* a person convicted of CRIME.
*2* of, involving, or guilty of CRIME.
		
Click to expand...

It’s states that someone is a criminal irrespective of being convicted


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			I’m anti-facist & believe that Black Lives Matter
		
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I'm an anti-Facist and believe All Lives Matter.


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## JamesR (Jun 3, 2020)




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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			It’s states that someone is a criminal irrespective of being convicted
		
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Let's stop playing games with semantics. I ask again, if you believe  'Many' police are criminals then please justify it. How many?


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## JamesR (Jun 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			Let's stop playing games with semantics. I ask again, if you believe Many police are criminals then please justify it. How many.
		
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I didn’t say many were , just that there were criminals amongst the police forces of the world


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## SocketRocket (Jun 3, 2020)

JamesR said:



			I didn’t say many were , just that there were criminals amongst the police forces of the world
		
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No, Kellfire said there were 'Many' Policemen guilty of crime'. I challenged him and you challenged me 🙄

Forget it, I've lost the will to Iive with it.


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## JamesR (Jun 3, 2020)

SocketRocket said:



			No, Kellfire said there were 'Many' Policemen guilty of crime'. I challenged him and you challenged me 🙄

Forget it, I've lost the will to Iive with it.
		
Click to expand...

No, I just asked if you were agreeing or questioning. Your punctuation didn’t make it clear.


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

Not sure if this is the correct thread but the police officer who killed George Floyd has had his charge upped to 2nd degree murder and the other three police officers have been charged with aiding him. Good news.


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

gmc40 said:



			Just to address your points;

1. Not splitting hairs, you stated the majority voted for Trump which wasn’t true so I corrected you

2. You referred to the man in the video stating you didn’t know who he was. I told you he was a very vocal trump supporter. This may not matter to you but to me it does. Trump supporter = no credibility therefore opinion not valid. I did actually watch the video for about a minute and had to turn it off. The man’s a nob.

3. I didn’t say they were stupid, I said some are. The others who voted for him are in it for their own self interests or because he legitimises their prejudices. Speaking of stupid Trump supporters though;

Trump Rally

Click to expand...

To make such generalist comments about Republicans is stupid as is theresponse - there are "some" stupid people everywhere. You are welcome to link the person to Trump - i don't care and stated so. Very insightful for you to understand that all the non stupid people who voted republica are infact selfish or prejudiced - all tens of millians of them. Anyway - can't be bothered to respond anymore on your points here


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## PNWokingham (Jun 3, 2020)

gmc40 said:



			No he didn’t. Try again
		
Click to expand...


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			To make such generalist comments about Republicans is stupid as is theresponse - there are "some" stupid people everywhere. You are welcome to link the person to Trump - i don't care and stated so. Very insightful for you to understand that all the non stupid people who voted republica are infact selfish or prejudiced - all tens of millians of them. Anyway - can't be bothered to respond anymore on your points here
		
Click to expand...

My first comment referred to people who continue to vote for them and my second referred to people voting for Trump. I stand by both comments. Anyone who votes for the GOP/Trump in November would fall into one of those three categories. The only way the republicans would gain any credibility would be to get rid but that’s looking unlikely.


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



View attachment 31026

Click to expand...

Yup, thanks for confirming.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 3, 2020)

So Derek Chauvin has now had his charges upgraded to 2nd Degree Murder and the other policeman have all been charged with adding and abetting 2nd degree murder and manslaughter 

Some big steps forward

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52915019


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 3, 2020)

IanM said:



			Depends.  Are you an anarchist? 

Click to expand...

I am, and I am an antichrist.


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## IanM (Jun 3, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			I am, and I am an antichrist.
		
Click to expand...

...you have your moments


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## Foxholer (Jun 3, 2020)

gmc40 said:



			...Trump supporter = no credibility therefore opinion not valid....
		
Click to expand...

H'mm! That comment falls into a pretty similar 'bucket' imo!
And, just to be clear, I'm definitely not a Trump supporter!


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## larmen (Jun 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So Derek Chauvin has now had his charges upgraded to 2nd Degree Murder and the other policeman have all been charged with adding and abetting 2nd degree murder and manslaughter

Some big steps forward

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52915019

Click to expand...

Reading this I am not sure 2nd degree murder sticks. It clearly is 3rd at least, but did he really intend to kill him? And can intend be proven?

But it’s good that the others face charges, they should have intervened.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 3, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			I am, and I am an antichrist.
		
Click to expand...

The Omens aren't good then.


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## gmc40 (Jun 3, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			H'mm! That comment falls into a pretty similar 'bucket' imo!
And, just to be clear, I'm definitely not a Trump supporter!
		
Click to expand...

I disagree. After the last 4 years anyone who still supports him has no credibility. I can understand that some  may have supported him in 2016 without knowing what was coming but not now. I knew he’d be bad but he’s far exceeded my expectations.


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## Lazkir (Jun 4, 2020)

Very well written and thought provoking piece by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

https://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/commentary/2020-06-03-reflections-on-color-of-my-skin.php


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## JamesR (Jun 4, 2020)

Are people still getting upset about the statue being graffiti'ed in London?

Heads up, it's Robert E Lee, Confederate general, and renowned slave owner, and it's not in London.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Are people still getting upset about the statue being graffiti'ed in London?

Heads up, it's Robert E Lee, Confederate general, and renowned slave owner, and it's not in London.
		
Click to expand...

It’s the same with the picture of Charlie Gilmore hanging from an Union Flag being passed around as if it happened yesterday


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 4, 2020)

The bloke climbing on the Cenotaph is still annoying though.


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## huds1475 (Jun 4, 2020)

Yet still countless chumps repost twitter links religiously


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## PNWokingham (Jun 4, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Some advocate violence and property damage. Not all. Like some policemen lean on the necks of minorities. Not all.

I assume you think anarchy or communism are immediately bad things?
		
Click to expand...

your friendly non-terrorist commy anarchists are pushing ahead with their warped agenda - good job the majority of people are against them

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...e-emerges-someone-orchestrating-violent-riots


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## larmen (Jun 4, 2020)




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## azazel (Jun 4, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			your friendly non-terrorist commy anarchists are pushing ahead with their warped agenda - good job the majority of people are against them

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...e-emerges-someone-orchestrating-violent-riots

Click to expand...

Have you considered that the “organisers” might not be part of the Black Lives Matter protest and could be some kind of agent provocateur?


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## gmc40 (Jun 4, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			your friendly non-terrorist commy anarchists are pushing ahead with their warped agenda - good job the majority of people are against them

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...e-emerges-someone-orchestrating-violent-riots

Click to expand...

That looks a legit source...


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## triple_bogey (Jun 4, 2020)

PNWokingham said:



			your friendly non-terrorist commy anarchists are pushing ahead with their warped agenda - good job the majority of people are against them

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...e-emerges-someone-orchestrating-violent-riots

Click to expand...

Well done.........But ZeroHedge is as trustworthy and legit as the Falun Gong cult. Small matter of them being banned from Twitter for spreading misinformation. . But nevermind that fact......carry on!


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## Kellfire (Jun 4, 2020)

triple_bogey said:



			Well done.........But ZeroHedge is as trustworthy and legit as the Falun Gong cult. Small matter of them being banned from Twitter for spreading misinformation. . But nevermind that fact......carry on! 

Click to expand...

I’m sure Guido Fawkes also agrees though...


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 5, 2020)

triple_bogey said:



			Well done.........But ZeroHedge is as trustworthy and legit as the Falun Gong cult. *Small matter of them being banned from Twitter for spreading misinformation*. . But nevermind that fact......carry on! 

Click to expand...

No way hose. Next you'll be telling me that Darren Grimes is not a balanced individual and Info Wars has political bias!  If I can't trust them then to legitimize crazy right wing conspiracy theories and reinforce my prejudices than who can I trust nowadays?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Are people still getting upset about the statue being graffiti'ed in London?

Heads up, it's Robert E Lee, Confederate general, and renowned slave owner, and it's not in London.
		
Click to expand...

I'm pleased you posted this. A relative of mine commented, with some anger, about this picture as it had come up on his feed. I was able to correct the outrage that was building on the thread. My relative held their hands up and thanked me for the correction. I am happy to pass that on.


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## Kellfire (Jun 5, 2020)

https://themenzingers.bandcamp.com/

One of my favourite bands have recorded this about the situation.


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