# Vaping in the Clubhouse



## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

I have just emailed my club about this and thought I would see what the forum thinks. I do not want this to turn into a moral argument on ecigs and vaping and whether it is just a crutch, whether they are bad for you and whether I should just go cold turkey. 

The fact is that I have been off the cigarettes for over 3 months now, in a large part due to using an ecig and vaping instead of smoking. Most pubs and clubs that I have been to are more than happy for people to use their ecigs in the bar and this is perfectly legal. To my knowledge, however, my club does not have a policy on this. I have no doubt that if I started using it without raising it first there would be complaints so I am taking the safe route. 

So, does anyone's club actually have a policy on the use of ecigs and vaping in the clubhouse. Is it something that would offend you if people did it. Just interested to hear the lie of the land on this.


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2014)

Its a bit of an odd one this, still very little research into vaping and what the chemicals are and their impact (if any). Personally think it should be no different to normal smoke, off you go outside, at least until the research into the effect they have is conclusive. That said plenty of places allowing them, seem to now be allowed in most card rooms/casinos and pubs.

As for it being legal, thats only because they havent got round to it yet


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

fundy said:



			Its a bit of an odd one this, still very little research into vaping and what the chemicals are and their impact (if any). Personally think it should be no different to normal smoke, off you go outside, at least until the research into the effect they have is conclusive. That said plenty of places allowing them, seem to now be allowed in most card rooms/casinos and pubs.

As for it being legal, thats only because they havent got round to it yet 

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I agree with that, it is only a matter of time before the legislators get hold of it. That said, if there are no toxins in the vapour then they would have to ban all nicotine replacement therapies. The problem is that it is marketed as an alternative to smoking as opposed to a way of quitting. 

My argument would be that it is currently legal and clubhouses allowed smoking when it was legal and so vaping should be allowed. Then again, I would say that as I am the one who wants to use it.


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## Airlie_Andy (Mar 13, 2014)

As these products are not currently Regulated lots of work places, including my own,are banning them to be on the safe side. Not sure on places like golf clubs and bars though.


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## G1BB0 (Mar 13, 2014)

a lot of pub chains have now banned them, I got asked to goto the smokers area outside..... lets just say I wasnt best pleased, I am vaping to avoid smoking not carry on joining those that still are!

Hopefully they will be ok and allow it :thup:


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2014)

for those of you using them, do you not have any concerns as to the health risks of them? or is it just a case of they cant be as bad for you as real fags?


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			a lot of pub chains have now banned them, I got asked to goto the smokers area outside..... lets just say I wasnt best pleased, I am vaping to avoid smoking not carry on joining those that still are!

Hopefully they will be ok and allow it :thup:
		
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That is a good point and one that I have experienced as well. For someone who is trying to avoid the temptation of smoking, it is really not ideal to be sent out to stand with people puffing away, especially on a night out when the willpower is lowered after a few beers.


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

fundy said:



			for those of you using them, do you not have any concerns as to the health risks of them? or is it just a case of they cant be as bad for you as real fags?
		
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Pretty much this. I do not see it as a long term solution but rather a stepping stone. If this can get me through the first 6months to a year then I can start cutting down on it. To be fair, I do not use it that often, maybe a couple of puffs every hour or so.


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## Birchy (Mar 13, 2014)

For me it either allow it all or ban it all. Most places will err on the side of caution and ban them imo.


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

In all honesty, I suspect that it is something that the club has not even considered yet. I have seen quite a few people using them on the course but either nobody has complained or nobody has tried using one in the clubhouse (that is except a mate of mine from my old club who I signed in, he had a few puffs on his but nobody commented and I had no idea what to do and whether to tell him to put it away).


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## Khamelion (Mar 13, 2014)

IF someone is vaping as an aid to stopping smoking altogether, then until the automatic action of wanting to put something into their mouth goes away, then said vaper should join the rank and file of those smoking outside.

Perhaps the thought of smoking a pretend cigarette in the cold and wet will be enough for some to give it up altogether.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 13, 2014)

I am a smoker and I think if asked to be the guy making policy for the club I would suggest that it not be allowed. I think the club house is a family atmosphere and its not a good look for the kids/younger players to see this is acceptable. 

I am keen to try one of these ecigs but for example if I were to have one and fancy a go while at work I would go in the hall or toilet or something, again, purely based on looks.


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## bladeplayer (Mar 13, 2014)

Very same discussion is starting to do the rounds over here now Greg, i realy dont know enough about them to comment on them & i can see both sides of the discussion ala G1BBO should someone trying to give up be made go into the smoking area to use their ecig ? 
BUT   should someone out for a pint or a meal have to inhale whatever it is thats in the smoke you just exhaled .. 

i can see places of business erring with caution & banning them tho


Might make an interesting poll tho....  id be in the NOT allowing them group , but ive never smoked so id be biased 



good luck with quitting by the way ................ must be easy  my Mrs has given them up loadsa times  (old ones still the best )


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## Jack_bfc (Mar 13, 2014)

Strange thing is. Kids are going straight to ecigs as they are seen to be 'non toxic', dont stink and you still get the nicoteen hit...

I know they dont allow them in any of the office complex I frequent and I believe they dont allow them in Football stadia concorses etc.

There is no official age limit for selling them either althugh I know a fella witha bargain booze frachise and they have made an 18+ policy for selling them and the mark up and profit is outrageous..

Im really glad I quit before this as an opion....


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## Fyldewhite (Mar 13, 2014)

Quite a few use them in our club. As a non (ex!!) smoker I really don't have an issue. They don't produce smog, don't smell and there seems to be little evidence of second hand effects so don't see why I would be justified in objecting really. Overall, if they help people give up then that's a good thing and I for one support anything that helps. I know just how hard it is to kick it.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 13, 2014)

Jack_bfc said:



			Strange thing is. Kids ar going straight to ecigs as they are seen to be 'non toxic', dont stink an you still get the nicoteen hit...

I know they dont allow them in any of the office complex I frequent and I believethey dont allow them in Football stadia concorses etc.

There is no official age limit for selling them either althugh I know a fella witha barain booze frachise and they have made an 18+ policy for selling them and the mark up and profit is outrageous..

Im really glad I quit before this as an opion....
		
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Interesting, that would be my exact concern.


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## Mattyboy (Mar 13, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			I am a smoker and I think if asked to be the guy making policy for the club I would suggest that it not be allowed. I think the club house is a family atmosphere and its not a good look for the kids/younger players to see this is acceptable.
		
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Nor is alcohol a good look so please shut the bar as well!

I got pulled up at the Selhurst on Saturday for using one. Now I have openly used this from the same seat for two years with not a comment, but jobsworth steward pulled me up. Ironically it was half time and there was 1000 Southampton fans smoking the real thing not 40 yards from me - but that's not a problem.

Its all a bit daft if you ask me.

To answer your question - they are used in our bar and as far as I know there are no plans to ban them.


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## CMAC (Mar 13, 2014)

should be treated the same as cigs imo


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## Alex1975 (Mar 13, 2014)

Mattyboy said:



			Nor is alcohol a good look so please shut the bar as well!

I got pulled up at the Selhurst on Saturday for using one. Now I have openly used this from the same seat for two years with not a comment, but jobsworth steward pulled me up. Ironically it was half time and there was 1000 Southampton fans smoking the real thing not 40 yards from me - but that's not a problem.

Its all a bit daft if you ask me.

To answer your question - they are used in our bar and as far as I know there are no plans to ban them.
		
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Two wrongs.....


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2014)

Mattyboy said:



			Nor is alcohol a good look so please shut the bar as well!

I got pulled up at the Selhurst on Saturday for using one. Now I have openly used this from the same seat for two years with not a comment, but jobsworth steward pulled me up. Ironically it was half time and there was 1000 Southampton fans smoking the real thing not 40 yards from me - but that's not a problem.

*Its all a bit daft if you ask me.*

To answer your question - they are used in our bar and as far as I know there are no plans to ban them.
		
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How can people questioning whether it is right for something that hasnt been properly tested (or regulated) being allowed be a bit daft? If they have been fully tested, the chemicals are regulated etc and proven to be no issue then fine, until then its hardly "a bit daft" imo. If you want to use them untested thats up to you but to expect them not to be treated the same as ciggies a bit optimistic for me


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## Jack_bfc (Mar 13, 2014)

By the very nature of what they are intended for, they will become extinct, as everyone who uses one is supposedly coming off fags and therefore will stop 'vaping' at some point....

Out of my circle of freinds we are down to one single smoker and no 'vapers'. Thats from a time before the pub/football ban when we all smoked...


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## TLB (Mar 13, 2014)

I don't think e-cigs should be allowed in the clubhouse, smokers are a dying breed.

I'd hate to go into the clubhouse after a game and be greeted with a row of vapors, personally it's in the same category as smoking.

I used to smoke but read this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Allen-Carrs-Easy-Stop-Smoking/dp/014103940X

I urge every smoker who has the slightest inclination to quit to read this book. The man speaks sense and you really are given a whole new perspective on smoking.

Why substitute smoking with smoking, it doesn't make sense, cold turkey!


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

Just to update, there is no policy and nobody has thought to look at this.point. I was thanked for raising it and it is.going before the house committee before a full announcement is made


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2014)

GB72 said:



			Just to update, there is no policy and nobody has thought to look at this.point. I was thanked for raising it and it is.going before the house committee before a full announcement is made
		
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Any reformed smokers using e-cis on the committee? If not theres a ban a coming


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## MadAdey (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm on them too Greg, have been since November. Never going back to normal cigs now that I can actually smell how horrific they are and that I use to smell like that. I tried a ciggie on New Year's Eve and it nearly made me sick.I personally do not see a problem with using them inside the clubhouse. Sending someone to a smoking area when they are trying to quit is not really of much help to them as it is not helping them break the habit, after all most of us smoke through habit and associating smoking with certain things like eating or drinking, or like me walking up to the first tee. Like has been mentioned about setting the correct example to younger members, if that is the case then ban drinking too.Good luck to all that have quit like me what ever way you are doing it.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 13, 2014)

Must admit, I do find it strange to spot someone "vaping" in a pub; always do a double take.

I'd probably prefer people didn't do it in a public place but if there aren't any health risks and the same etiquette most smokers applied about not doing so around people who were eating I guess I'd come round.

I just worry that, unregulated, these become more than just a means to quit smoking but that some will actually start using these in their own right or, worse, maybe even progress to smoking..... That certainly seems to be where the marketing is heading.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 13, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Must admit, I do find it strange to spot someone "vaping" in a pub; always do a double take.

I'd probably prefer people didn't do it in a public place but if there aren't any health risks and the same etiquette most smokers applied about not doing so around people who were eating I guess I'd come round.

I just worry that, unregulated, these become more than just a means to quit smoking but that some will actually start using these in their own right or, worse, maybe even progress to smoking..... That certainly seems to be where the marketing is heading.
		
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I agree and have already seen advertising to this end.


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## mcbroon (Mar 13, 2014)

I was in the bar at the theatre last month and a guy came and stood beside me.  I didn't take any notice until this cloud of smoke drifted across my face.  My first thoughts was "Eh?!" and then I realised what he was doing. 

I have to say that my gut reaction was that it shouldn't be allowed. I get the counterpoint about sending vapers outside to stand with smokers but the blunt solution to that is 'don't do either'.

Easy to say when you're not trying to quit but as everyone knows, ex-smokers are the most militant


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## CMAC (Mar 13, 2014)

TLB said:



			I don't think e-cigs should be allowed in the clubhouse, smokers are a dying breed.

I'd hate to go into the clubhouse after a game and be greeted with a row of vapors, personally it's in the same category as smoking.

I used to smoke but read this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Allen-Carrs-Easy-Stop-Smoking/dp/014103940X

I urge every smoker who has the slightest inclination to quit to read this book. The man speaks sense and you really are given a whole new perspective on smoking.

Why substitute smoking with smoking, it doesn't make sense, *cold turkey*!
		
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..is exactly how I did it. You have to be very week willed once stopped to get up, put your coat on, go out and pay money for a lighter and cigarettes and light up. You either stop or you don't.

It did take me a few attempts over a few years as I didn't want to stop- I really enjoyed a smoke with a beer on a hot day after work or the course. But once you stop that's it, stop, it really isnt difficult if you *want* to do it


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## Mattyboy (Mar 13, 2014)

fundy said:



			How can people questioning whether it is right for something that hasnt been properly tested (or regulated) being allowed be a bit daft? If they have been fully tested, the chemicals are regulated etc and proven to be no issue then fine, until then its hardly "a bit daft" imo. If you want to use them untested thats up to you but to expect them not to be treated the same as ciggies a bit optimistic for me
		
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The thing I find daft is premises banning them and citing a bad influence on children - drinking is as bad, so is the walk through the smokers on arrival. By all means, its your club and they can be banned, but do it for the right reasons or not at all.  

BTW - why haven't they been tested? They have been around for a while now.


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2014)

Mattyboy said:



			The thing I find daft is premises banning them and citing a bad influence on children - drinking is as bad, so is the walk through the smokers on arrival. By all means, its your club and they can be banned, but do it for the right reasons or not at all.  

BTW - why haven't they been tested? They have been around for a while now.
		
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Couldnt agree more, the bad influence argument is weak imo. 

As for the testing, nothing ever happens quickly these days lol, they'll get round to it eventually (and then try and work out how they tax it!)


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## gryffindor (Mar 13, 2014)

I switched to vaping six months ago this weekend and have never once wanted a cigarette since. I tried every other method (including a one-to-one with Alan Carr) but simply never managed to quit so they get the thumbs up from me.

That said, it feels odd to vape in public. However, because they do not smell and leave no trace you simply have to be out of sight. Anyone noticed how many people nip off to the loo on a flight  - possibly for a sneaky vape. If I am somewhere they are banned, I don't go outside with the smokers - I just tuck myself round the corner somewhere out of sight for a minute or so. 

I would therefore say ban them in the clubhouse, but expect people to obey the spirit, if not the letter of the ban.


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## Snelly (Mar 13, 2014)

Well at least I know what vaping means now! 

I rarely see people with them but when I do, I think they look very odd and probably should be viewed in the same way as cigarettes.


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

Good points here and even as a user of an ecig I am on the fence a bit and can see both sides. As for why I use one, the simple fact is that I loved smoking, enjoyed every minute of it from the first one with a coffee in the morning to that drunken one in the back garden at 3 in the morning after a big night out. Forget the nicotine addiction, I smoked because I liked smoking. I tried drugs, gum and even cold turkey and failed to quit. The ecig may be a crutch but for the moment it is a half way point easing me off a bad habit that I enjoyed. That has to be better than smoking. Sorry that I do not have the willpower just to stop but that is how I am. I suspect I will have the temptation for the rest of my life but at least I am trying.


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## swanny32 (Mar 13, 2014)

I've been vaping for 2 years now and love it, so many different flavours available and undeniably better for you (and cheaper) than 20 marlboro a day! I cleared it first with our owner that it was ok to use in the clubhouse and he doesn't have a problem with it at all. I'm kind of known as the vaper at the club now so everyone comes to me with their questions, and everyone is just used to it now.


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## TLB (Mar 13, 2014)

CMAC said:



			..is exactly how I did it. You have to be very week willed once stopped to get up, put your coat on, go out and pay money for a lighter and cigarettes and light up. You either stop or you don't.

It did take me a few attempts over a few years as I didn't want to stop- I really enjoyed a smoke with a beer on a hot day after work or the course. But once you stop that's it, stop, it really isnt difficult if you *want* to do it
		
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Exactly. My vice was after a meal or out at the pub, but I really wanted to quit so I did. Simple. I did however have very vivid dreams about smoking, even to the point where I would wake up in a daze disappointed with myself that I'd had a cigarette!


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## nemicu (Mar 13, 2014)

I always look at it like this - if it's a substitute for a cigarette, then go outside and have it like the rest of the other smokers. It seems to me that e-cig users want to have their cake and eat it. Sure, I bet it's harmless enough, but if your craving for nicotine is that high up on your agenda then you'll have to take the rough with the smooth. Smoking, simulated or otherwise inside buildings shared by non-smokers is wrong. It always seems to me that smokers (or e-smokers) always want to legitimise their actions because they simply don't have the will power to admit they have a problem. But in order to give up smoking, you have to WANT to give up smoking. Nicotine replacement is the worst way of achieving this. It's like any other addiction, but why give yourself more of the drug you're trying to wean yourself off?


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## 6inchcup (Mar 13, 2014)

they are banned at my club since before new year,i had to go for my heart check up last week and the nurse had to tell 3 people in the waiting room to stop using them


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## fundy (Mar 13, 2014)

GB72 said:



			Good points here and even as a user of an ecig I am on the fence a bit and can see both sides. As for why I use one, the simple fact is that I loved smoking, enjoyed every minute of it from the first one with a coffee in the morning to that drunken one in the back garden at 3 in the morning after a big night out. Forget the nicotine addiction, I smoked because I liked smoking. I tried drugs, gum and even cold turkey and failed to quit. The ecig may be a crutch but for the moment it is a half way point easing me off a bad habit that I enjoyed. That has to be better than smoking. *Sorry that I do not have the willpower just to stop but that is how I am. I suspect I will have the temptation for the rest of my life but at least I am trying*.
		
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Dont be so sure Greg, I used to be pretty much as described in your statement. And then having been like that for many a year I woke up one day and realised I didnt actually want to smoke anymore. As soon as that "want" went giving up became a lot simpler


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## gryffindor (Mar 13, 2014)

To make a very odd analogy - I loathe the smell of coffee and cooked eggs - no idea why, they just make me churn. Caffeine is an addiction but it is currently legal so I have to put up with the stench in a lot of places from the clubhouse to my local petrol station (it is banned in the office ). No one has ever proved that the aroma from coffee is safe (no one has proved it is unsafe either!)- but since it is legal I have to put up with it. Is vaping any different?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 13, 2014)

fundy said:



			Couldnt agree more, the bad influence argument is weak imo. 

As for the testing, nothing ever happens quickly these days lol, they'll get round to it eventually (and then try and work out how they tax it!)
		
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I think the bad influence is very valid. I don't know anybody that smokes because they thought they taste nice. Always to impress or copy someone. I still think that until an official ruling is made health wise they shouldn't be allowed in.


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## Swinger (Mar 13, 2014)

I use one, we allow it and hopefully that is the way it'll stay. 

Mine is purple and I like changing the colour of the bit you put in to your mouth.

I have several different flavours.


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

Swinger said:



			I use one, we allow it and hopefully that is the way it'll stay. 

Mine is purple and I like changing the colour of the bit you put in to your mouth.

I have several different flavours.
		
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I had one that looked like a cigarette but got asked if I smoking too often so now have a bright green one


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## Rooter (Mar 13, 2014)

Interesting thread! I have been vaping for 6 months now, wouldn't dream of having a cig and I smoked 20 a day for 20 years! I smok mine everywhere I feel comfortable doing it... So I don't in restaurants, a bar maybe. Don't really go in my clubhouse often enough over tha past 6 months! But I prob wouldn't vape in there.


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## backwoodsman (Mar 13, 2014)

The vapour is pretty much just that - water vapour - so I guess the issue is whether there is any significant trace of nicotine in the vapour, and whether that is a risk to third parties? Unless they are demonstrated to be more harmful or risky to the health of other people than are coughs, sneezes etc of persons with colds and flu, then I'm content for them to be used inside. But the real nasties of real smoke such as tars, and particulate matter are just not there in the vapour.

However, I am an ex-smoker - so like some others, may be a bit biased. (More correctly, a smoker who is not having a smoke today for the 2257th consecutive day. Day 2258 can take care of itself when it comes...)


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## Bobirdie (Mar 13, 2014)

Are you allowed to smoke them on aeroplanes???


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## CMAC (Mar 13, 2014)

Bobirdie said:



			Are you allowed to smoke them on aeroplanes???
		
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absolutely NOT!


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## Mattyboy (Mar 13, 2014)

Bobirdie said:



			Are you allowed to smoke them on aeroplanes???
		
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That depends if you are caught!

I understand its actually due to the smoke and resulting panic however.


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## JustOne (Mar 13, 2014)

Someone snorting a line of coke wouldn't give off any harmful vapour - yet probably not allowed in the clubhouse 

I don't think it's the vapour that's the issue, it's the fact that others have to WATCH you do it. There might be youngsters around watching your 'example' of smoking and there might be people around that have actually QUIT smoking and the last thing they need to see is you puffing away... there's an area for that sort of thing and they're probably doing their best to avoid it by being in the clubhouse.




James >>>> hardened smoker who will probably die from it :angry:


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## JustOne (Mar 13, 2014)

Bobirdie said:



			Are you allowed to smoke them on aeroplanes???
		
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I have smoked e-cigs on Ryan Air, the hostess said it was fine..... but it felt really weird, and I could feel many eyes burning the back of my head


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## NWJocko (Mar 13, 2014)

GB72 said:



			Good points here and even as a user of an ecig I am on the fence a bit and can see both sides. As for why I use one, the simple fact is that I loved smoking, enjoyed every minute of it from the first one with a coffee in the morning to that drunken one in the back garden at 3 in the morning after a big night out. Forget the nicotine addiction, I smoked because I liked smoking. I tried drugs, gum and even cold turkey and failed to quit. The ecig may be a crutch but for the moment it is a half way point easing me off a bad habit that I enjoyed. That has to be better than smoking. Sorry that I do not have the willpower just to stop but that is how I am. I suspect I will have the temptation for the rest of my life but at least I am trying.
		
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I'm very similar to you.

Started using an e cig the other week and they are very good at replacing cigs. I'm sort of halfway at the moment, odd fags and using the e cig thing aswell. Tried all sorts over the years but, like you, I actually enjoy(ed) smoking so makes it more difficult than it already is to jack it in!

I'm of the view that they shouldn't be allowed anywhere cigs aren't though. I wouldn't feel comfortable having an e cig on a train, in a pub etc. that said I've never smoked in my house so going outside for a fag/e cig isn't a problem.


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## JustOne (Mar 13, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			that said I've never smoked in my house so going outside for a fag/e cig isn't a problem.
		
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I've had an e-cig in the bedroom.... weird. 

If I smoked them all the time I very much doubt I would go outside to do so.


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## garyinderry (Mar 13, 2014)

oh hell yeah!


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## DanFST (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm very confused to see the "it's the same as smoking, so you should be lumped with the smokers" point of view.

Personally I love smoking, Especially with a beer after a round. I'm happy to do this outside (after 6 years or so getting used to it). Why shouldn't someone be able to use their ecig inside? If they had their back to you, no one would notice. It's unfair to lump it with proper fags. It doesn't smell, smoke or stain.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 13, 2014)

I don't know of anyone at our place that use them so no idea if we have a policy or not. I'm guessing not. My own preference would be to treat it as a cigarette as I think it may give a poor example, especially as we have a lot of juniors about the place at weekends.


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## TaylormadePhil (Mar 13, 2014)

well if you use ecigs and are looking to use the facilities at The Vale of Leven Golf Club in the future, be warned. The Committee banned them a few weeks ago..


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 13, 2014)

fundy said:



			Dont be so sure Greg, I used to be pretty much as described in your statement. And then having been like that for many a year I woke up one day and realised I didnt actually want to smoke anymore. As soon as that "want" went giving up became a lot simpler
		
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And me.  At some point you might find the reason that changes your mind.


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## chellie (Mar 13, 2014)

No idea if they're allowed at ours or not. Out of interest which ones are you using.


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

chellie said:



			No idea if they're allowed at ours or not. Out of interest which ones are you using.
		
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I have a pretty basic ejoy atomiser and tank combo. There is a vaping shop in Grantham that sells great liquids at Â£3 a bottle. Currently alternate between menthol, berry and coffee


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## Hobbit (Mar 13, 2014)

garyinderry said:










oh hell yeah!
		
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Mate's got one of these, and responds to Sherlock.

I've never smoked, but have passive smoked all my life. Not bothered by it either way.


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## MadAdey (Mar 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't know of anyone at our place that use them so no idea if we have a policy or not. I'm guessing not. My own preference would be to treat it as a cigarette as I think it may give a poor example, especially as we have a lot of juniors about the place at weekends.
		
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A couple of us have already mentioned about setting an example, but it is ok to sit in the clubhouse a drink alcohol. Not looking at starting an an argument, but that does not set a good example either does it?


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## Jason Daisycutter (Mar 13, 2014)

GB72 said:



			I have just emailed my club about this and thought I would see what the forum thinks. I do not want this to turn into a moral argument on ecigs and vaping and whether it is just a crutch, whether they are bad for you and whether I should just go cold turkey. 

The fact is that I have been off the cigarettes for over 3 months now, in a large part due to using an ecig and vaping instead of smoking. Most pubs and clubs that I have been to are more than happy for people to use their ecigs in the bar and this is perfectly legal. To my knowledge, however, my club does not have a policy on this. I have no doubt that if I started using it without raising it first there would be complaints so I am taking the safe route. 

So, does anyone's club actually have a policy on the use of ecigs and vaping in the clubhouse. *Is it something that would offend you if people did it.* Just interested to hear the lie of the land on this.
		
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Personally, yes it would offend me if you were doing it in an area where juniors were allowed. The difference in it being allowed in bars/ pubs would be the age restrictions in place. I would also find it difficult to stomach if it was taking place in a restaurant, so if the club serves food this would be another point to consider.
However, good luck with quitting!


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## GB72 (Mar 13, 2014)

Jason Daisycutter said:



			Personally, yes it would offend me if you were doing it in an area where juniors were allowed. The difference in it being allowed in bars/ pubs would be the age restrictions in place. I would also find it difficult to stomach if it was taking place in a restaurant, so if the club serves food this would be another point to consider.
However, good luck with quitting! 

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I can agree with that and would hope users of ecigs retain the same sensibilities I hope they had as smokers, even when on the normal cigs I never smoked around kids or food and I stick to that now


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## sawtooth (Mar 13, 2014)

I used to smoke but I went onto the e-cigs a few years ago. A close friend of mine had sold a business and was biding his time waiting to start another company in his usual field. In the intervening  years he decided to start up a e-cig business importing from China and selling online through his website. Anyway, through his generosity I had a good  , free supply of these things and I must say that it really helped me kick the habit of smoking real cigarettes.   I "smoked" them everywhere including the clubhouse and they actually used to laugh at me when I did, it was more of a novelty back then and no one ever objected.

For anyone trying to quit smoking I strongly recommend e-cigs as a stepping stone. Its as close as it gets to smoking without the harmful tar and chemicals and they were easier to stop than the real things.


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## pigmeister (Mar 13, 2014)

Not allowed to use them in our clubhouse.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 13, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			A couple of us have already mentioned about setting an example, but it is ok to sit in the clubhouse a drink alcohol. Not looking at starting an an argument, but that does not set a good example either does it?
		
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I can kinda see your point. But I think there are probably a lot less alcoholics than smokers. If smoking was just something where you could go out and have a few then maybe they'd share a similar stigma?


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## MadAdey (Mar 14, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I can kinda see your point. But I think there are probably a lot less alcoholics than smokers. If smoking was just something where you could go out and have a few then maybe they'd share a similar stigma?
		
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I agree, I just think using the line if setting a good example is a poor reason when there are other bad examples being set. 

I use mind in bars etc, but I would still not sit next to someone eating and start vamping away.


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## Swinger (Mar 14, 2014)

I will smoke mine inside the clubhouse until I am old I'm not allowed. If someone asks me not to do it around them then I will ask why and if there is a valid reason I will stop but if it is because 'I am no better than a smoker so I should join them outside' or 'They find the idea offensive' I will ask them to leave the clubhouse as they are offending me with their petty moaning. 

Example setting is a great shout, I look forward to a club house with no crisps, fizzy drinks, foods high in saturated fat, alcohol and now high protein foods as they are as bad for you as smoking in middle age! The fact that someone has quit smoking or in the process of isn't a bad example to set. 

Smoking isn't a great habit but I don't see why people just try and label ecig users in the same way. I can only assume it is to discourage and dishearten the ecig user from quitting the real cigs so that the tax doesn't go on a bacon sandwich, the staple of a golfers diet. Or maybe so they can still feel better than some people.


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## Fyldewhite (Mar 14, 2014)

Ask yourself why smoking was banned in enclosed spaces in the first place?
The *only* reason was the proven health risks of second hand smoking on other occupants and particularly staff. I didn't see many golf clubs falling over themselves to ban it on social grounds, or bad example grounds or whatever...... no, they nearly all waited to be forced to do so and if my club is anything to go by still met with quite a lot of opposition!!
It seems that the actual effects of these is approximately the same as wearing a patch.....ie the nicotine without all the unpleasant (to others) effects. The question is therefore, why are users being bracketed as some sort of smokers who are "getting around" the rules. Golf clubs through and through......something new, something we don't really understand, something we are not sure about......let's ban it to be on the safe side.
Not one convincing argument against them posted above for me.


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## GB72 (Mar 14, 2014)

Thought I would point out that the only ingredients in the juice I use are glycerol, nicotine and flavouring. As the glycerol and flavourings are both used in the food industry I would doubt there is any toxicity on that front.


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2014)

My place has banned them.


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## GB72 (Mar 14, 2014)

Out of interest, did anyone's club that has banned them give reasons or gauge the opinions of the members before banning them or was it an arbitrary decision


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## USER1999 (Mar 14, 2014)

GB72 said:



			Out of interest, did anyone's club that has banned them give reasons or gauge the opinions of the members before banning them or was it an arbitrary decision
		
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No reason, just a notice on the notice board.


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## chellie (Mar 14, 2014)

GB72 said:



			I have a pretty basic ejoy atomiser and tank combo. There is a vaping shop in Grantham that sells great liquids at Â£3 a bottle. Currently alternate between menthol, berry and coffee
		
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Thanks GB72


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## clubchamp98 (Mar 14, 2014)

GB72 said:



			That is a good point and one that I have experienced as well. For someone who is trying to avoid the temptation of smoking, it is really not ideal to be sent out to stand with people puffing away, especially on a night out when the willpower is lowered after a few beers.
		
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What about people who are trying to give up / avoid smoking and have to stand with you vaping inside the pub / club


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## CMAC (Mar 14, 2014)

hmmm smoking is banned so I'll do something that looks exactly the same, even though it isn't, and I don't expect anyone to mind at all. 




p.s my will power is certainly lowered after a few beers to have wild rampant sex, but as that's banned in the clubhouse I could do something that looks exactly the same, even though it isn't, and nobody should mind.


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## Rooter (Mar 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			p.s my will power is certainly lowered after a few beers to have wild rampant sex, but as that's banned in the clubhouse I could do something that looks exactly the same, even though it isn't, and nobody should mind.

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Phew, glad you just had a coke at wentworth!


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## CMAC (Mar 14, 2014)

Rooter said:



			Phew, glad you just had a coke at wentworth!
		
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:rofl:

there was a voddy in it, wasnt driving just flying that day :smirk:


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## garyinderry (Mar 14, 2014)

vaping rooms is the next thing.  vaping is not going to go away.  much healthier, if it isn't already it sure as hell will be in the future!


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## GB72 (Mar 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			hmmm smoking is banned so I'll do something that looks exactly the same, even though it isn't, and I don't expect anyone to mind at all. 




p.s my will power is certainly lowered after a few beers to have wild rampant sex, but as that's banned in the clubhouse I could do something that looks exactly the same, even though it isn't, and nobody should mind.

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The thing is that cigarettes were banned on health grounds and not appearance. Most clubs allowed smoking until the compulsory ban. By your argument I would not be able to drink coke and drive as it looks the same as drinking beer.


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## DanFST (Mar 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			hmmm smoking is banned so I'll do something that looks exactly the same, even though it isn't, and I don't expect anyone to mind at all. 

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Well putting a straw in your drink and sucking through it is pretty similar? Should we ban that by association aswell? lets, just stop anyone putting anything in there mouth and then sucking shall we. (that's definitely frowned upon in my clubhouse :rofl


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## CMAC (Mar 14, 2014)

GB72 said:



			The thing is that cigarettes were banned on health grounds and not appearance. Most clubs allowed smoking until the compulsory ban. By your argument I would not be able to drink coke and drive as it *looks the same* as drinking beer.
		
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DanFST said:



			Well putting a straw in your drink and sucking through it is *pretty similar*? Should we ban that by association aswell? lets, just stop anyone putting anything in there mouth and then sucking shall we. (that's definitely frowned upon in my clubhouse :rofl

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it's not an argument guys, just some fun! 

You both quote something 'similar' your not getting it, vaping looks the *exact same* as smoking :cheers:


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## GB72 (Mar 14, 2014)

CMAC said:



			it's not an argument guys, just some fun! 

You both quote something 'similar' your not getting it, vaping looks the *exact same* as smoking :cheers:
		
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I was more impressed that your club had found that there was need to specifically ban rampant sex in the clubhouse


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## CMAC (Mar 14, 2014)

GB72 said:



			I was more impressed that your club had found that there was need to specifically ban rampant sex in the clubhouse 

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to be fair .....and honest :smirk: they only banned 1 person and it was just sex not rampant sex...........so by the letter of the law there is wiggle room :rofl:


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## sawtooth (Mar 14, 2014)

E-cigs are banned in a lot of places due to ignorance. Most people assume they are not entirely without risk and I cant blame them because they are still unregulated products. Others simply dont want the hassle from the "non-smokers".

Regulation and clinical trials are coming (which is the main reason my mate closed his e-cig enterprise down) and when that happens the e-cig bans will most likely be lifted. I think that large cigarette companies will also jump on the bandwagon else they will probably go to the wall.


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## DanFST (Mar 17, 2014)

CMAC said:



			it's not an argument guys, just some fun! 

You both quote something 'similar' your not getting it, vaping looks the *exact same* as smoking :cheers:
		
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No arguments here, apologies if it came across that way. :thup:

Everyone will have there opinion. But there is nothing physically harmful at the moment to using an E-cig (as far as we know).  Us smokers get a bum deal alot of the time. This is finally a proper solution to helping people quit/ cut down. And it's being taken away by people just because they are scared of it!


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## CMAC (Mar 17, 2014)

GB72 said:



			The thing is that cigarettes were banned on health grounds and not appearance. Most clubs allowed smoking until the compulsory ban. *By your argument I would not be able to drink coke and drive as it looks the same as drinking beer*.
		
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sorry missed this. You are of course correct GB72 but the substance (if legal) is irrelevant, it *is* an offence to consume food or drink while driving


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## GB72 (Mar 17, 2014)

CMAC said:



			sorry missed this. You are of course correct GB72 but the substance (if legal) is irrelevant, it *is* an offence to consume food or drink while driving
		
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Sorry, meant that you could not drink coke in the clubhouse then drive home as that looks the same as drinking beer. The matter is that at present it is legal to use an ecig indoors. That said, I respect any establishment's right to say no and at the weekend I used it outdoors to err on the side of caution. 

I suppose what I am looking for is clarity across the board. I think that this has caught most places and not just golf clubs by surprise. A simple sign saying that it is allowed or not would avoid a great deal of confusion and allow people to know where they stand from the off. Ideally, if they are not to be used in a bar, they can come up with a slightly better solution than sending me out with the smokers though. 

I think that over the next few months most places will develop a policy as only a matter of months ago ecigs were pretty thin on the ground but now they are everywhere.


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## GB72 (Mar 17, 2014)

Well, the verdict is in and the committee has asked that they be used outside as they could cause unnecessary problems


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## Rooter (Mar 17, 2014)

GB72 said:



			Well, the verdict is in and the committee has asked that they be used outside as they could cause unnecessary problems
		
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fair enough i think. you dont have to go the "smoking zone" just outside.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 17, 2014)

CMAC said:



			to be fair .....and honest :smirk: they only banned 1 person and it was just sex not rampant sex...........so by the letter of the law there is wiggle room :rofl:
		
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They only banned one person? Did they not want to ban the other person involved?


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## Rooter (Mar 17, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			They only banned one person? Did they not want to ban the other person involved?
		
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Who said there were 2 people?!!


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## CMAC (Mar 17, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			They only banned one person? Did they not want to ban the other person involved?
		
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he was a single that day :lol:


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## Rooter (Mar 17, 2014)

CMAC said:



			he was a single that day :lol:
		
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And Pamela Handerson has a virtual ban...


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## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 17, 2014)

CMAC said:



			he was a single that day :lol:
		
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Ahh, I was thrown by the reference to sex, I'm not sure a single would count in that definition for me


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## macca64 (Mar 17, 2014)

I smoke, don't agree with the vap sticks indoors, only my opinion,


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## RGDave (Apr 11, 2014)

Wow.... fascinating thread.

I use an e-cig and have done for nearly 2 years. I wouldn't use it in the clubhouse or expect anywhere to allow it despite the lack of specific laws surrounding their use in public buildings. 

They will become banned in the same way as smoking, you can bet on that. Personally speaking, I feel it's a shame as some places actually benefit from allowing vaping. It would be better for places to make a decision (one way or the other) rather than bring in legislation. 

By the way - there has been research. They don't need to be regulated to be safer, they are safer. The plastic ones that look like a cigarette are more or less a placebo as well as being an utter rip-off compared to a refillable one. They are not 100% safe... it's about harm reduction. The government would like them to be sold as a "medicine" but the EU kicked that possibility into the deep rough.
From 2016 they will be restricted in some ways. Articles claiming they will be medicines in 2016 are wrong... including the BBC.

FYI.


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## CMAC (Apr 11, 2014)

RGDave said:



			Wow.... fascinating thread.

I use an e-cig and have done for nearly 2 years. I wouldn't use it in the clubhouse or expect anywhere to allow it despite the lack of specific laws surrounding their use in public buildings. 

They will become banned in the same way as smoking, you can bet on that. Personally speaking, I feel it's a shame as some places actually benefit from allowing vaping. It would be better for places to make a decision (one way or the other) rather than bring in legislation. 

By the way - there has been research. They don't need to be regulated to be safer, they are safer. The plastic ones that look like a cigarette are more or less a placebo as well as being an utter rip-off compared to a refillable one. They are not 100% safe... it's about harm reduction.* The government would like them to be sold as a "medicine" but the EU kicked that possibility into the deep rough.*
From 2016 they will be restricted in some ways. Articles claiming they will be medicines in 2016 are wrong... including the BBC.

FYI. 

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evidence?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

They appeared to have been banned in the clubhouses I have visited this year. 

Understand they can also become addictive ?


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## RGDave (Apr 11, 2014)

CMAC said:



			evidence?
		
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Evidence.. of the government wanting to go the "medicines route"...?

Plenty, mostly letters from current MPs/MEPs and Linda McAvan (MEP) (before she realised it wasn't going to work)... *however* since the recent tobacco products directive, plenty of MPs have softened their stance towards "light touch regulation"....

Most vapers never wanted the full medicines approach, obviously.

(maybe I should have said "wanted".... so, I take your point).

Do you use an e-cig?


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## RGDave (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They appeared to have been banned in the clubhouses I have visited this year. 

Understand they can also become addictive ?
		
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Yes, they are addictive if they contain nicotine. I never even asked to use mine indoors, there are only 3 of us.


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## stevie_r (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They appeared to have been banned in the clubhouses I have visited this year. 

Understand they can also become addictive ?
		
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Obviously, that would be the nicotine.


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## macca64 (Apr 11, 2014)

i smoke, don't agree with e cigs inside any bar, only my opinion, I can last without a fag for a hour or so after a round so I don't see why vapours can't , think our place is having vote on it though,


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			Obviously, that would be the nicotine.
		
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So they are intended just to get you away from the tobacco ?


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## stevie_r (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So they are intended just to get you away from the tobacco ?
		
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A safer alternative due to the reduction in harmful chemicals from tobacco smoke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2014)

stevie_r said:



			A safer alternative due to the reduction in harmful chemicals from tobacco smoke.
		
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So then need to find a way it get off the vaper ?


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## GB72 (Apr 11, 2014)

I am not too worried whether I can use it or not, just wanted some clarity as you can walk into a bar and not know. Also thought the club could do with a policy as they are spreading. A sign of this was when I went into town at lunchtime and saw all the old boys outside the betting shop dragging on ecigs


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## RGDave (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So they are intended just to get you away from the tobacco ?
		
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That's a possibility, yes. They are not allowed to be sold as a "quit smoking" aid, but that's why a good proportion of people use them.
A lot of folk also "dual fuel" , using an e-cig in places where smoking is not allowed.


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## RGDave (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So then need to find a way it get off the vaper ?
		
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Yes... some will, some won't. I am reducing the level of nicotine, so in the end I hope to do neither.


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## stevie_r (Apr 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So then need to find a way it get off the vaper ?
		
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If you wish to I suppose.


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