# Good Luck Rangers



## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Chasing their first trophy win today against Raith Rovers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Chasing their *first trophy *win today against Raith Rovers.
		
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Confused - havent they won loads


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Not in their present form.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not in their present form.
		
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But they are still Rangers have the previous history and trophies attached to them ?

It will still go down on their list of trophy wins

http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/trophy-room


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## smange (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But they are still Rangers have the previous history and trophies attached to them ?

It will still go down on their list of trophy wins

http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/trophy-room

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Only in their own deluded minds and when it relates to success 

But The Rangers do already have a couple of trophies anyway, last seasons third division and this seasons second division title are in the bag remember.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

So if Rangers win today the Scottish FA will not put in their records attached to all the other previous wins for Rangers ?

Wiki also have it all the same club

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.#Domestic_honours


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## Lanark_Golfer (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





Confused - havent they won loads
		
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Not quite their 1st....








:whoo:


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Sorry forgot about them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Im guessing also the governing bodies of your leagues and FA see them as still the same Rangers ?


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Im guessing also the governing bodies of your leagues and FA see them as still the same Rangers ?
		
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Never clarified it. But if something is liquidated how can it be the same?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Never clarified it. But if something is liquidated how can it be the same?
		
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Wasnt it the company behind that was liquidated as opposed to the club itself ?

*Though the SPL chairman Neil Doncaster said "it is an existing club, even though it's a new company", SFA chief executive Stewart Regan has described Rangers as having moved from being "a club in administration trying to do a company voluntary arrangement, to a club facing liquidation and becoming a newco*


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

The club was incorporated into the company in 18whatever. If that is the case why doesn't any club owing money just liquidate and start again? Read some of the stuff regarding hearts being possibly liquidated and see who the media/SFA or whoever were pandering to


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			The club was incorporated into the company in 18whatever. If that is the case why doesn't any club owing money just liquidate and start again? Read some of the stuff regarding hearts being possibly liquidated and see who the media/SFA or whoever were pandering to 

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But the club and its assests and history still exist and transferred to the new company.

The companies liquidate not the club ( if the club is owned by a company )


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But the club and its assests and history still exist and transferred to the new company.

The companies liquidate not the club ( if the club is owned by a company )
		
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:rofl: whatever go and do some research regarding the media narrative regarding Hearts and liquidation then compare that to The Rangers International Football Club Ltd. With hearts they were saying liquidation is the end but when it was Sevco pulling the same stunt everything was switched :rofl:

Anyway hope they enjoy winning (if they do as they are rank rotten) the most prestigious trophy going according to one sycophantic media outlet :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			:rofl: whatever go and do some research regarding the media narrative regarding Hearts and liquidation then compare that to The Rangers International Football Club Ltd. With hearts they were saying liquidation is the end but when it was Sevco pulling the same stunt everything was switched :rofl:

Anyway hope they enjoy winning (if they do as they are rank rotten) the most prestigious trophy going according to one sycophantic media outlet :rofl:
		
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I have no idea about what the media says etc but are Hearts owned by a company or one person ? Have the company gone into liquidation or the club itsels ?


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no idea about what the media says etc but are Hearts owned by a company or one person ? Have the company gone into liquidation or the club itsels ?
		
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I ask again if the club is incorporated and the company goes bust why does every other company playing football  not do the same when they have huge debts?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I ask again if the club is incorporated and the company goes bust why does every other company playing football  not do the same when they have huge debts?
		
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Sorry you have confused me there ?

Other companies have gone bust and clubs have been bought by other companies etc. Believe Hearts were bought by someone , same with Pompey and other clubs that have had financially difficulties. If a company goes bust then do those assests attached to the company certainly cease to exist or can they be bought out by another company ?


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## Lanark_Golfer (Apr 6, 2014)

At the end of the day, they are a new team with no history no matter how much they bleat on about it. Charles Green was desperate for a CVA as it was the only way to preserve the history. There was even a full scale demo at Ibrox with all holding up red cards saying "no to liquidation,  preserve our history" etc. When CVA was thrown out and they were liquidated,  all the press lead with 140 years of history gone...








For some strange reason they are trying to go back on that.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

So all the assests disappeared when it went into liquidation ? 

Im guessing this is a sore subject.

But does it really matter if the history carries on ?


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			The club was incorporated into the company in 18whatever. If that is the case why doesn't any club owing money just liquidate and start again? Read some of the stuff regarding hearts being possibly liquidated and see who the media/SFA or whoever were pandering to 

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They are quite entitled to!

However, the sanctions and other disadvantages of doing so outweigh the benefits (combined with the benefits of not doing so), so they don't.

No different from any other Company in that regard!

@LPP. Slightly different from the Portsmouth (2) , Southampton and Leeds (and probably other) episodes in that those clubs went into Administration but, unlike Rangers, were not Liquidated. Hearts of Mid Lithuania is currently in Administration but hoping to avoid liquidation. How anyone sees 'The Rangers Football Club' in relation to 'Rangers Football Club' very probably depends on whether they were a Rangers supporter in the first place! I believe all the assets of Rangers were bought by the Newco.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			They are quite entitled to!

However, the sanctions and other disadvantages of doing so outweigh the benefits (combined with the benefits of not doing so), so they don't.

No different from any other Company in that regard!

@LPP. Slightly different from the Portsmouth (2) , Southampton and Leeds (and probably other) episodes in that those clubs went into Administration but, unlike Rangers, were not Liquidated. Hearts of Mid Lithuania is currently in Administration but hoping to avoid liquidation. How anyone sees 'The Rangers Football Club' in relation to 'Rangers Football Club' very probably depends on whether they were a Rangers supporter in the first place! I believe all the assets of Rangers were bought by the Newco.
		
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I believe all those assets were indeed bought by the new company and the Football Club and its history were one of those assets so still exist

If the SFA see it as the same club and the SPL see it as the same club then it appears its the same club


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## Lanark_Golfer (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So all the assests disappeared when it went into liquidation ? 

Im guessing this is a sore subject.

But does it really matter if the history carries on ?
		
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So all the assests disappeared when it went into liquidation ? No, Rangers 1872-2012 won them

Im guessing this is a sore subject. No, comedy gold

But does it really matter if the history carries on ? Quite clearly to "The Rangers"


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe all those assets were indeed bought by the new company and the Football Club and its history were one of those assets so still exist

If the SFA see it as the same club and the SPL see it as the same club then it appears its the same club
		
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No date on that quote from the SFA, but from the text, it was before the CVA was rejected (by HMRC), so is irrelevant to the present situation - and should not be quoted without qualification! It would, however, be relevant to Hearts.

The SFA certainly treated The Rangers as a new club - requiring them to start at the bottom!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			So all the assests disappeared when it went into liquidation ? No, Rangers 1872-2012 won them

Im guessing this is a sore subject. No, comedy gold

But does it really matter if the history carries on ? Quite clearly to "The Rangers"
		
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Did Rangers FC disappear then ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			No date on that quote from the SFA, but from the text, it was before the CVA was rejected (by HMRC), so is irrelevant to the present situation - and should not be quoted without qualification! It would, however, be relevant to Hearts.

The SFA certainly treated The Rangers as a new club - requiring them to start at the bottom!
		
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Didnt they start at the bottom because of the wishes of the other clubs in the votes ?

I really cant see a problem with Rangers being the same Rangers as before - it appears the football Club disappeared as such just the companies behind it ?


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didnt they start at the bottom because of the wishes of the other clubs in the votes ?
		
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Rangers applied for admittance to the SPL. That was, indeed, how the *decision* was made (a rejection) - in accordance with the rules of the SFL/SPL. 

The SFA had already assigned The Rangers to 3rd Division as a new club - in accordance with its rules.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

The ECA , UEFA , FIFA and the SFA all recognise Rangers as being the same club with an intact history. All trophies (more than any other club worldwide as I understand) are historically intact and belong to the club playing today. 

All opinions, beliefs and comments are (unfortunately to the holders of such) simply wrong, misguided and without basis in fact. 

Yep, the holding company has changed, but still the same club.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Which club is that, Rangers or The Rangers?

Anyway how are they doing, are they dancin in the streets of Raith or Ibrox.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 6, 2014)

I think that the important thing is the viewpoint of the fans and nothing else really matters

Same Ground, same players, same manager, same fans

Its the same club


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Oops just checked it is a 16.05 KO.
Is it on Alba?


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			...
Yep, the holding company has changed, but still the same club.
		
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Well, almost - it has 'lost' a sizeable chunk of liability!

But the History was one of the assets. 

And a minor, but perhaps significant, correction to my post 26.

The SFA had already assigned The Rangers to 3rd Division as *it would* a new club - in accordance with its rules.


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 6, 2014)

Pretty sure celtic have been owned by Numerous companies. What happened to the celtic football & athletic club?

It doesn't matter how many times fans of other clubs state that rangers history doesn't continue. As like fiorentina in Italy fifa & UEFA recognise rangers as the same club.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			The ECA , UEFA , FIFA and the SFA all recognise Rangers as being the same club with an intact history. All trophies (more than any other club worldwide as I understand) are historically intact and belong to the club playing today. 

All opinions, beliefs and comments are (unfortunately to the holders of such) simply wrong, misguided and without basis in fact. 

Yep, the holding company has changed, but still the same club.
		
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Really? Why did they not play in Europe after administration/liquidation then? They came second in the league that year didn't they?


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

This. If my quote thingy has worked!

Doon, Rangers have always been the Rangers, to me and many others.


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			The ECA , UEFA , FIFA and the SFA all recognise Rangers as being the same club with an intact history. All trophies (more than any other club worldwide as I understand) are historically intact and belong to the club playing today. 

All opinions, beliefs and comments are (unfortunately to the holders of such) simply wrong, misguided and without basis in fact. 

Yep, the holding company has changed, but still the same club.
		
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This is fact. Well said


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Really? Why did they not play in Europe after administration/liquidation then? They came second in the league that year didn't they?
		
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During administration the club's accounts were not handed to UEFA on time. Resulting in suspension from competition.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Chris, they lost full member status and are affiliate members, still the same club.

It's a fact, Rangers are the same club with an intact history, nothing anyone says here or elsewhere changes that.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Chris, they lost full member status and are affiliate members, still the same club.

It's a fact, Rangers are the same club with an intact history, nothing anyone says here or elsewhere changes that.
		
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How did they lose membership status then if they are the same club?


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Jdb, celtic changed holding companies a couple of times , Pacific shelf 595 was one I believe.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

They never lost status chris, it was downgraded is all.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Jdb, celtic changed holding companies a couple of times , Pacific shelf 595 was one I believe.
		
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Thats correct they changed the name so what? A bit like changing from Sevco to the international rangers football club or whatever it is.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			They never lost status chris, it was downgraded is all. 

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Why?


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Anyway, I'm away tae watch Jockavision on BBC alba, c'mon the Gers.  lol[I


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Live on Alba.

Anyone know why The Rangers fans threw all their old Rangers tops on to the field?
I see Clum is playing for Raith, now there is a player.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Why? Dunno, mibby the ECA weren't obsessed with destroying the club, who knows, but it's all out there, Google is your friend.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Why? Dunno, mibby the EVA weren't obsessed with destroying the club, who knows, but it's all out there, Google is your friend. 

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

So its still the same Rangers then and recognised by all the footballing authorities and if they win this trophy it wil added to their list of previous honours - thats that cleared up then :thup:


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

Who gives a toss.

What we do know that Glasgow Celtic Football Club is the only show in town and our poor relations remain in our shadows.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So its still the same Rangers then and recognised by all the footballing authorities and if they win this trophy it wil added to their list of previous honours - thats that cleared up then :thup:
		
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Whatever :thup:


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Who gives a toss.

What we do know that Glasgow Celtic Football Club is the only show in town and our poor relations remain in our shadows.
		
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For the moment


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			For the moment 

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Judging by the quality of the 15 minutes I watched of today's game it will be a long while.

My eyes were sore,15 minutes was more than enough.I could not subject them to a minute longer.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			For the moment 

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Aye cos losing Â£1m a month is a sound way to run a buisiness.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So its still the same Rangers then and recognised by all the footballing authorities and if they win this trophy it wil added to their list of previous honours - thats that cleared up then :thup:
		
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Yep, it is indeed. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp. Although, to be fair some folks do find it hard to accept.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Whatever :thup: 




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Who do you support ?

Or do i need to guess ?


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Aye cos losing Â£1m a month is a sound way to run a buisiness.
		
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Football? Business? Pah!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13295273


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

My god this is awful stuff.
It is actually worse than watching Palace play Fulham.

Never mind Rangers at least your debt is Â£498,000,000 less than Man U and Liverpool.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My god this is awful stuff.
It is actually worse than watching Palace play Fulham.

*Never mind Rangers at least your debt is Â£498,000,000 less than Man U and Liverpool*.
		
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what the hell does that nugget of factually incorrect  statement have to do with Rangers playing in a cup final ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Yep, it is indeed. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp. Although, to be fair some folks do find it hard to accept. 

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Just hope yoos yins and the SFA treat Hearts equally if they have a bad day tomorrow.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			what the hell does that nugget of incorrect factual statement have to do with Rangers playing in a cup final ?
		
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How can it be both factual and incorrect


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just hope yoos yins and the SFA treat Hearts equally if they have a bad day tomorrow.
		
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Think Hearts could struggle if they don't get the CVA, certain to lose the stadium to the bank if that's what happens.


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			How can it be both factual and incorrect 

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:lol:

What is factual is that the standard is as bad as anything you will ever see live on the goggle box.

Horrific.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			How can it be both factual and incorrect 

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have edited the post

His comment still has zero relevance to the thread


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			:lol:

What is factual is that the standard is as bad as anything you will ever see live on the goggle box.

Horrific.
		
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It is brutal. The game plan for both teams seems to be hoof it as hard as they can up the park. That said RR seem to try to play every now and again but it dies away quickly.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My god this is awful stuff.
It is actually worse than watching Palace play Fulham.

Never mind Rangers at least your debt is Â£498,000,000 less than Man U and Liverpool.
		
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Don't think Rangers have any debt.....for now......might be wrong though, haven't seen the accounts and don't pay too much heed to the paper talk on the subject.

On the subject of the game though, oh dear!! Lol, Raith keeper had a couple of decent saves and erm, well, uhm, mibby pick up next half.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			have edited the post

His comment still has zero relevance to the thread
		
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:rofl: glass houses and that Phil eh.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			:rofl: glass houses and that Phil eh.
		
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So im guessing a Celtic fan ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Don't think Rangers have any debt.....for now......might be wrong though, haven't seen the accounts and don't pay too much heed to the paper talk on the subject.

On the subject of the game though, oh dear!! Lol, Raith keeper had a couple of decent saves and erm, well, uhm, mibby pick up next half. 

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And Liverpool certainly dont have the debt the poster is suggesting


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And Liverpool certainly dont have the debt the poster is suggesting
		
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How much is the debt then Phil and try and keep it factual!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			How much is the debt then Phil and try and keep it factual!
		
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*Liverpoolâ€™s net bank debts now stand at Â£45.1m after being reduced by Â£19.9m in the period to the end of May, 2013.*


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Liverpoolâ€™s net bank debts now stand at Â£45.1m after being reduced by Â£19.9m in the period to the end of May, 2013.*

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Is that all, sorry I must have misplaced a 0 somewhere.
Only Â£45 million in debt jings they are doing well, they would get that for Suarez alone.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is that all, sorry I must have misplaced a 0 somewhere.
Only Â£45 million in debt jings they are doing well, they would get that for Suarez alone.
		
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Would get double that for him but he isnt going anywhere :thup:

And the debt is a running overdraft with the bank


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Just switched to the Boat Race.
It looks more exciting.


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just switched to the Boat Race.
It looks more exciting.
		
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Aye it is sad to see how far they have fallen. I mean Rovers one the League Cup not so long ago.


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Liverpoolâ€™s net bank debts now stand at Â£45.1m after being reduced by Â£19.9m in the period to the end of May, 2013.*

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Which means they were losing about Â£1M/week (Â£50M loss on the year). Wasn't there a comment about that being no way to run a business?

And Â£75M more due in the next year than was due in the latest (Â£189M vs Â£113M).


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

BOOOOOOOOOOO 

:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Which means they were losing about Â£1M/week (Â£50M loss on the year). Wasn't there a comment about that being no way to run a business?

And Â£75M more due in the next year than was due in the latest (Â£189M vs Â£113M).
		
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Considering where we were a couple of years ago and our increase of income then im ok with where we stand financially - the losses of Â£50mil were down to player purchases it appears in the books but doesnt include the increase in some commercial deals late summer. Also considerable money has been wasted on stadium designs etc which have no been written. We most certainly appear to be heading in the right direction


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## ger147 (Apr 6, 2014)

They'll be dancing in the streets of Raith...


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## Lanark_Golfer (Apr 6, 2014)

Well done Raith Rovers


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: At least there was no cup upset. The big team won :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

They will be dancin in the streets of Raith again tonight.

Long standing joke aimed at an ill informed BBC sports reader who did not know Raith play at Kirkcaldy.

Welsh equivalent of dancing in the streets of Airbus!!


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Onwards and upwards. 

Poor game from my point of view (nearly as bad as that God awful language the commentators use), but well done Raith.


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Considering where we were a couple of years ago and our increase of income then im ok with where we stand financially - the losses of Â£50mil were down to player purchases it appears in the books but doesnt include the increase in some commercial deals late summer. Also considerable money has been wasted on stadium designs etc which have no been written. We most certainly appear to be heading in the right direction
		
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Was the instigator of the 'through rose tinted glasses' a Liverpool supporter?  Does 'wasting money on stadium designs etc' not count as expenditure? Certainly in a better position then under Gillett/Hicks!

Still, a 1-0 (proper) win over my lot keeps them top. I think I prefer to see them there then Chelski.

And Oh Dear! Rangers miss out! Nearly didn't notice! Is that an indication of what Scottish 1st Division football is like? Still, I imagine Gordon Broon has a genuine smile this evening!


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

They are truly rotten. Route one and full of hammer throwers. Comedy Gold.. The gift that just keeps giving.

Arise Sir Fat Ally.

We are all Turnbull Hutton.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Was the instigator of the 'through rose tinted glasses' a Liverpool supporter?  Does 'wasting money on stadium designs etc' not count as expenditure? Certainly in a better position then under Gillett/Hicks!

Still, a 1-0 (proper) win over my lot keeps them top. I think I prefer to see them there then Chelski.

And Oh Dear! Rangers miss out! Nearly didn't notice! Is that an indication of what Scottish 1st Division football is like?
		
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proper 1 nil win ? Eh ?

confused me there


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Onwards and upwards. 

Poor game from my point of view (nearly as bad as that God awful language the commentators use), but well done Raith.
		
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Aye I know, imagine the broadcasters having the cheek to use the national language.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And Oh Dear! Rangers miss out! Nearly didn't notice! Is that an indication of what Scottish 1st Division football is like?
		
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Pretty much, sums up the standard of most scottish football tbh. Imho.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And Oh Dear! Rangers miss out! Nearly didn't notice! Is that an indication of what Scottish 1st Division football is like? Still, I imagine Gordon Broon has a genuine smile this evening!
		
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Are The Rangers not in the second division


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Aye I know, imagine the broadcasters having the cheek to use the national language.
		
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National language that's spoken by about 30 folk and a few sheep!

Bloody clever sheep mind you.


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			proper 1 nil win ? Eh ?

confused me there
		
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A goal for each side that shouldn't have been! 

Only 65% possession! :rofl:


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			National language that's spoken by about 30 folk and a few sheep!

Bloody clever sheep mind you.
		
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So? 

Maybe if it was two big teams playing it might have made it onto one of the big channels


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And Oh Dear! Rangers miss out! Nearly didn't notice! Is that an indication of what Scottish 1st Division football is like?
		
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Oh no.....it is generally much worse than that.
You seem to be forgetting Raith are a Championship side.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			A goal for each side that shouldn't have been! 

Only 65% possession! :rofl:
		
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Ah right - it appears that the penalty was the correct decision - Flanno got a touch then got took out


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			So? 

Would be better spending limited funds on programmes using the more widely used national language, English. Imho.
		
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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are The Rangers not in the second division 

Click to expand...

Not for comparison they aren't. At least for me.

Having already won that title, I consider the a Scottish 1st Division side.

Had they not already won it, I would have described them a S1D aspiring side.

Time the anti-Rangers mob lost their bigotry and welcomed some competition/opposition. It will be in Scottish Football's best interest imo.


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Not for comparison they aren't. At least for me.

Having already won that title, I consider the a Scottish 1st Division side.

Had they not already won it, I would have described them a S1D aspiring side.

Time the anti-Rangers mob lost their bigotry and welcomed some competition/opposition. It will be in Scottish Football's best interest imo.
		
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Delusional.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Wouldnt ranger provide a bit more competition for Celtic ? As opposed to it being a one horse race ?


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Not for comparison they aren't. At least for me.

Having already won that title, I consider the a Scottish 1st Division side.

Had they not already won it, I would have described them a S1D aspiring side.

Time the anti-Rangers mob lost their bigotry and welcomed some competition/opposition. It will be in Scottish Football's best interest imo.
		
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
		
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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh no.....it is generally much worse than that.
You seem to be forgetting Raith are a Championship side.
		
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Apologies. I consider both to be in that league, which is 1st division vs premiere division (as opposed to Championship, League 1, or SPL).

Seems I need to get my terminology correct for you bunch of pedants! 



Dodger said:








Click to expand...

:rofl:

Surely that should be 'The' Rangers!


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wouldnt ranger provide a bit more competition for Celtic ? As opposed to it being a one horse race ?
		
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Eventually, but not for a few years yet.


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## smange (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Not for comparison they aren't. At least for me.

Having already won that title, I consider the a Scottish 1st Division side.

Had they not already won it, I would have described them a S1D aspiring side.

*Time the anti-Rangers mob lost their bigotry* and welcomed some competition/opposition. It will be in Scottish Football's best interest imo.
		
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So because I don't like Rangers I'm a bigot 

I also don't like Celtic and happen to support Dunfermline Athletic so can you tell me in what way I'm a bigot?

If some people on here knew what they were talking about when it comes to Scottish football and could read between the lines they would have seen some amount of bigotry over the last couple of years and most if not all of it coming from a few pro-Rangers posters on here.

Glasshouses once again


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Eventually, but not for a few years yet.
		
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I really doubt it. They are spending a million a month more than they have and are still struggling against posties and brickies. Two or three years in the top league and finishing mid table will really test the loyalty. It will go back to the days before Murray came in spending other folks money.....


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Murray spent his own cash.

I would agree it's testing times at the moment, but we'll come through it.


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

smange said:



			So because I don't like Rangers I'm a bigot 

I also don't like Celtic and happen to support Dunfermline Athletic so can you tell me in what way I'm a bigot?
		
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Read my post again - carefully! 

Did I actually say you were?



smange said:



			If some people on here knew what they were talking about when it comes to Scottish football and could read between the lines they would have seen some amount of bigotry over the last couple of years and most if not all of it coming from a few pro-Rangers posters on here.

Glasshouses once again 

Click to expand...



I believe you've made wrong assumption that I support Rangers! That's what can happen when you 'read between the lines'!

You may well be right though. Then again, you may well be wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

So do people not want the league to be a bit more competitive and will Rangers not provide that competition ?

Currently it appears it's just a one team league and it's over by March ? Will that not be the detriment of the league ? 

Surely for the future it needs more than one club fighting it out for the title.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So do people not want the league to be a bit more competitive and will Rangers not provide that competition ?

Currently it appears it's just a one team league and it's over by March ? Will that not be the detriment of the league ? 

Surely for the future it needs more than one club fighting it out for the title.
		
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What and that is going to come from Rangers? :rofl: You obviously never seen any of that turgid crap on display today. They can hardly beat part timers comfortably with the second biggest wage bill in Scottish football. How are they going to manage when they come up against full time opposition every week? The challenge will come but not from Rangers IMO.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So do people not want the league to be a bit more competitive and will Rangers not provide that competition ?

Currently it appears it's just a one team league and it's over by March ? Will that not be the detriment of the league ? 

Surely for the future it needs more than one club fighting it out for the title.
		
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Phil, bottom line is right now over a season we ain't a match for them and won't be for a few years (pains me to say it) but it's true. However, they do fear a Rangers at full strength, they always did and they always will.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Phil, bottom line is right now over a season we ain't a match for them and won't be for a few years (pains me to say it) but it's true. However, they do fear a Rangers at full strength, they always did and they always will. 

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:rofl: Deluded. Most teams/fans in Scotland now think The Rangers are a laughing stock.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			What and that is going to come from Rangers? :rofl: You obviously never seen any of that turgid crap on display today. They can hardly beat part timers comfortably with the second biggest wage bill in Scottish football. How are they going to manage when they come up against full time opposition every week? The challenge will come but not from Rangers IMO.
		
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No one in the top division will come close to challenging celtic, well you know it, not with the biggest wage bill in Scotland......


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			What and that is going to come from Rangers? :rofl: You obviously never seen any of that turgid crap on display today. They can hardly beat part timers comfortably with the second biggest wage bill in Scottish football. How are they going to manage when they come up against full time opposition every week? The challenge will come but not from Rangers IMO.
		
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When they get back into the Premiership they will be able to attract the better players than the other clubs ( alongside Celtic ) 

They will do what's needed to get back in to the Premiership then they have the platform to challenge. Wouldn't judge on what they are currently like

And where else is the challenge going to come from ? currently Celtic are 28 points clear of second with a month left in the season

If that continues to be such a one team league then it's going to suffer in the long run


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

The knowledge of our football leagues and teams on here by the English posters is incredibly bad.

Guys do us a favour and just stop posting because 99% of the crap you lot post on our game is utter pish.

No offence but it is.A total lack of knowledge and understanding is shown by the English posters.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			:rofl: Deluded. Most teams/fans in Scotland now think The Rangers are a laughing stock.
		
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Like I said, at the moment we ain't good enough, but we will be, nowt deluded about that. I mean we have  reached  the semi of the national cup comp, not bad for a 2nd division mob.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When they get back into the Premiership they will be able to attract the better players than the other clubs ( alongside Celtic ) 

They will do what's needed to get back in to the Premiership then they have the platform to challenge. Wouldn't judge on what they are currently like

And where else is the challenge going to come from ? currently Celtic are 28 points clear of second with a month left in the season
		
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They currently have half a team full of mercenaries from the top flight as it is. And are still rank rotten. Rangers are no more of a threat than any other first division team That is there current level.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Like I said, at the moment we ain't good enough, but we will be, nowt deluded about that. I mean we have  reached  the semi of the national cup comp, not bad for a 2nd division mob.
		
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Its not a national cup though is it? It is only open to the lower leagues :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The knowledge of our football leagues and teams on here by the English posters is incredibly bad.

Guys do us a favour and just stop posting because 99% of the crap you lot post on our game is utter pish.

No offence but it is.A total lack of knowledge and understanding is shown by the English posters.
		
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Would you like to highlight the errors then ?


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The knowledge of our football leagues and teams on here by the English posters is incredibly bad.

Guys do us a favour and just stop posting because 99% of the crap you lot post on our game is utter pish.

No offence but it is.A total lack of knowledge and understanding is shown by the English posters.
		
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Disagree, until I posted Liverpoolphil was the only one that realised Rangers are the same club, the Scottish posters didn't. Seems he had a better understanding than some.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			They currently have half a team full of mercenaries from the top flight as it is. And are still rank rotten. Rangers are no more of a threat than any other first division team That is there current level.
		
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But they will have the platform to attract the better players will they not ? They have the stadium to fill , they will get the sponsorship , they are still a big club doing what is needed to get back into the Prem. 3 years ago whilst in the prem they won it did they not ? What's stopping them getting to that stage again


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Its not a national cup though is it? It is only open to the lower leagues :rofl:
		
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Scottish cup is the national cup. showing a lack of understanding there bud.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Scottish cup is the national cup. showing a lack of understanding there bud. 

Click to expand...

Nope merely misread the post.

A second division team with second highest wage bill in Scotland don't forget 

Wonder how many united will stick past them next week?


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would you like to highlight the errors then ?
		
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Jesus where do I start. All anti Rangers folk are bigots,Rangers would provide a challenge in the league,Dundee instead of Dundee United..........that's just for starters.

There is also the mis understanding that Rangers have done well winning their league again and getting to a cup semi despite the fact they are in league 1.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Nope merely misread the post.

A second division team with second highest wage bill in Scotland don't forget 

Wonder how many united will stick past them next week?
		
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On today's showing? Quite a few I would imagine! Who knows though, we might hit a bit of form. Lol


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But they will have the platform to attract the better players will they not ? They have the stadium to fill , they will get the sponsorship , they are still a big club doing what is needed to get back into the Prem. 3 years ago whilst in the prem they won it did they not ? What's stopping them getting to that stage again
		
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They cant fill the stadium as it is for the "journey", seemingly cannot attract a shirt sponsor for next year. That will only be compounded when mid table mediocrity beckons. There will be a hard core of around 15000 supporters the rest will fade away. All of that plus they dont have a pot to piss in now!


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

But as I said earlier we are still  the ONLY show in town and today has been another beautiful gift from the gift that just continues to keep giving.


Sweet as a nut.

Also I see the bears have decided to try and roll the clock back to Manchester and smash Edinburgh up today.......salt of the earth them bears,they really are.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Jesus where do I start. All anti Rangers folk are bigots,Rangers would provide a challenge in the league,Dundee instead of Dundee United..........that's just for starters.

There is also the mis understanding that Rangers have done well winning their league again and getting to a cup semi despite the fact they are in league 1.

Click to expand...

So why wouldn't Rangers provide a challenge when they get back into the Prem or are you judging that on what they are like right now and not seeing the possibilities that a club of that size can provide ? 

Regardless of anything past - Rangers are a massive club both in stature and name and history and are rebuilding themselves 

It's clear for anyone to see - English , Irish or Welsh to see that they would have the platform to build a strong enough team in the Premiership to provide a challenge. They would be able to attract the better players and the league needs them to provide that challenge because no one else can or have the platform to build a challenge - me being English doesn't stop me from observing and seeing what's clear.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			But as I said earlier we are still  the ONLY show in town and today has been another beautiful gift from the gift that just continues to keep giving.


Sweet as a nut.

Also I see the bears have decided to try and roll the clock back to Manchester and smash Edinburgh up today.......salt of the earth them bears,they really are.
		
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If "we" is Celtic then great - you win a one team league again - not exactly a challenge is it.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Anyway, I'm out, only came on to point out the inaccuracies / nonsense in a couple of posts and to confirm Rangers are still the same club.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Anyway, I'm out, only came on to point out the inaccuracies / nonsense in a couple of posts and to confirm Rangers are still the same club. 

Click to expand...

In that case provide the proof please.


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why wouldn't Rangers provide a challenge when they get back into the Prem or are you judging that on what they are like right now and not seeing the possibilities that a club of that size can provide ? 

Regardless of anything past - Rangers are a massive club both in stature and name and history and are rebuilding themselves 

It's clear for anyone to see - English , Irish or Welsh to see that they would have the platform to build a strong enough team in the Premiership to provide a challenge. They would be able to attract the better players and the league needs them to provide that challenge because no one else can or have the platform to build a challenge - me being English doesn't stop me from observing and seeing what's clear.
		
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They are currently on the brink of going tits up.....again. Losing Â£1m a month and there is a real doubt they will see Christmas.If,not when, they make it back they will be a shadow of what Rangers were before they died and i would worry more about Aberdeen then that lot to mount a challenge so that is how much of a threat they may be.

Â£6m wage bill to win a tin pot league where average wage is what Â£200 a week not Â£4k.....total madness but hey it's the 'The Rangers Way'.:smirk:

They are anything but rebuilding themselves so as I said maybe try dealing in facts before posting.


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			...our game is utter pish.
...
		
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From the 3-4 years, in a couple of stints, I experienced it up there, that seems an appropriate amendment!

It's quite possible that Celtic will stagnate too, though the lure of 'guaranteed' Champions League football may be attractive for some.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			They cant fill the stadium as it is for the "journey", seemingly cannot attract a shirt sponsor for next year. That will only be compounded when mid table mediocrity beckons. There will be a hard core of around 15000 supporters the rest will fade away. All of that plus they dont have a pot to piss in now!
		
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Again you appear to be judging on right now and being blinkered to the potential of the club - 3 years ago they were winning titles and having full stadiums. Get back inti the premiership and the potential to do that again is there


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again you appear to be judging on right now and being blinkered to the potential of the club - 3 years ago they were winning titles and having full stadiums. Get back inti the premiership and the potential to do that again is there
		
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Again like most Liverpool fans you hark back to days gone by. The "fans" wont hang around waiting and it isnt going to happen straight away. The free money they enjoyed has dried up along with the EBT's to attract the real quality of players they used to. That allied with the fact they are currently burning through Â£1M a month MORE than they need to as well as having no credit facilities well surely it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what comes next. They will become Scotland's equivalent of Leeds getting passed about like an old scud book


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			They are currently on the brink of going tits up.....again. Losing Â£1m a month and there is a real doubt they will see Christmas.If,not when, they make it back they will be a shadow of what Rangers were before they died and i would worry more about Aberdeen then that lot to mount a challenge so that is how much of a threat they may be.

Â£6m wage bill to win a tin pot league where average wage is what Â£200 a week not Â£4k.....total madness but hey it's the 'The Rangers Way'.:smirk:

They are anything but rebuilding themselves so as I said maybe try dealing in facts before posting.
		
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Worry about Aberdeen ?! Only the 28 points behind :rofl:

The longer it's a one club league and it is clearly then the league will suffer - you should want Rangers to provide the challenge , you should want them giving you a run because that's the sort of challenge telly companies want to see to provide the finances to improve the league. 

Well when Rangers get back into the Prem and expect they will I also expect them to improve the league by providing a challenge - an old firm derby itself will provide more interest let alone a title challenge.

Celtic need Rangers in that league or Celtic will suffer with a lack of challenge


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Again like most Liverpool fans you hark back to days gone by. The "fans" wont hang around waiting and it isnt going to happen straight away. The free money they enjoyed has dried up along with the EBT's to attract the real quality of players they used to. That allied with the fact they are currently burning through Â£1M a month MORE than they need to as well as having no credit facilities well surely it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what comes next. They will become Scotland's equivalent of Leeds getting passed about like an old scud book 

Click to expand...

Who I support has zero relevance 

I guess as long as you see Rangers suffer that's all that matters - when do you reckon the league will be win next year ? feb ? jan 

Will it be more than one defeat next year ?

A league with zero competition for the title will suffer - good luck


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## smange (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Read my post again - carefully! 

Did I actually say you were?





I believe you've made wrong assumption that I support Rangers! That's what can happen when you 'read between the lines'!

You may well be right though. Then again, you may well be wrong.

Click to expand...

Read my post again - carefully.

Did I actually say you were a Rangers supporter?

I didn't even remotely hint that I thought you were.

That's what happens when you make assumptions


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Worry about Aberdeen ?! Only the 28 points behind :rofl:

The longer it's a one club league and it is clearly then the league will suffer - you should want Rangers to provide the challenge , you should want them giving you a run because that's the sort of challenge telly companies want to see to provide the finances to improve the league. 

Well when Rangers get back into the Prem and expect they will I also expect them to improve the league by providing a challenge - an old firm derby itself will provide more interest let alone a title challenge.

Celtic need Rangers in that league or Celtic will suffer with a lack of challenge
		
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It makes no difference at all if they are here or not.Not one. If they are it's a 2 horse race,if they are not it's a 1 horse and we reap the financial rewards for that IF we make it through to the CL proper. The rest of the league suffers as much if they are here.Ask any fan in the top league if they have missed them and no-one has.

Huge myth. 2 years ago we were threatened by all the suits in Scottish Football that this was the beginning of the end when they died.We were told that Newco must,must go straight into the top league or we would all go to the wall.............. 2 years later and what has happened? Clubs have cut their cloth,more youngsters are getting the chance to play and things are looking brighter than they were back then.

Armageddon indeed. :smirk:


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## Hobbit (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Regardless of anything past - Rangers are a massive club both in stature and name and history and are rebuilding themselves 

It's clear for anyone to see - English , Irish or Welsh to see that they would have the platform to build a strong enough team in the Premiership to provide a challenge. They would be able to attract the better players and the league needs them to provide that challenge because no one else can or have the platform to build a challenge - me being English doesn't stop me from observing and seeing what's clear.
		
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Got to, sort of, agree with you Phil. I seem to remember Man Utd dropping out of the top flight, about 1974-ish, but by the early 90's were winning the league/cups. The major difference though, is Utd didn't go bust.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It makes no difference at all if they are here or not.Not one. If they are it's a 2 horse race,if they are not it's a 1 horse and we reap the financial rewards for that IF we make it through to the CL proper. The rest of the league suffers as much if they are here.Ask any fan in the top league if they have missed them and no-one has.

Huge myth. 2 years ago we were threatened by all the suits in Scottish Football that this was the beginning of the end when they died.We were told that Newco must,must go straight into the top league or we would all go to the wall.............. 2 years later and what has happened? Clubs have cut their cloth,more youngsters are getting the chance to play and things are looking brighter than they were back then.

Armageddon indeed. :smirk:
		
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And the league is over as a competition by March :thup:

Other teams won't miss them because now they have a chance of getting second as opposed to fighting for third 

The league is just irrelevant now - no one has come Celtic and won't do. Might as well give the trophy to them in August and don't bother playing the games - it's a nonsense. Do you really think a league can go on like that?


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## Dodger (Apr 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And the league is over as a competition by March :thup:

Other teams won't miss them because now they have a chance of getting second as opposed to fighting for third 

The league is just irrelevant now - no one has come Celtic and won't do. Might as well give the trophy to them in August and don't bother playing the games - it's a nonsense. Do you really think a league can go on like that?
		
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It is no different to a period in the late 80's and 90's where the league was a one horse race.Scottish football is stronger now that it was 2 years ago without a doubt because clubs have started to cut their cloth Hearts excepted but their troubles are akin to that lots too.

Look I know you don't like to accept that I am right but on you go if you want to argue til you are blue in the face.No pun intended.


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

smange said:



			Read my post again - carefully.

Did I actually say you were a Rangers supporter?

I didn't even remotely hint that I thought you were.

That's what happens when you make assumptions 

Click to expand...

And again; read my post carefully.

Good to note we agree about assumptions though!


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			In that case provide the proof please.
		
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http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/...grades-rangers-status-but-recognises-history/

Not sure if the link works, but it should be proof enough that Rangers are the same club. Pretty sure it will disappoint you, but hey ho the truths the truth.

Now, If you all want a good scottish football story Google 'celtic fc, co-op bank, glasgow council, Labour party and dodgy land deals'. It's really interesting. Currently being investigated by the EU never mind UEFA!!

State Aid?? Now that's naughty. Not to mention against EU law and UEFA FFP rules.

Now, I really am out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It is no different to a period in the late 80's and 90's where the league was a one horse race.Scottish football is stronger now that it was 2 years ago without a doubt because clubs have started to cut their cloth Hearts excepted but their troubles are akin to that lots too.

Look I know you don't like to accept that I am right but on you go if you want to argue til you are blue in the face.No pun intended.

Click to expand...

What do you mean "cut their cloth" 

And why is it stronger right now ? Or should I say how exactly is it stronger when the title is done and dusted already ?


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/...grades-rangers-status-but-recognises-history/

Not sure if the link works, but it should be proof enough that Rangers are the same club. Pretty sure it will disappoint you, but hey ho the truths the truth.

Now, If you all want a good scottish football story Google 'celtic fc, co-op bank, glasgow council, Labour party and dodgy land deals'. It's really interesting. Currently being investigated by the EU never mind UEFA!!

State Aid?? Now that's naughty. Not to mention against EU law and UEFA FFP rules.

Now, I really am out. 

Click to expand...

So this ECA what do they actually govern. I mean UEFA  have the champions league and govern European football what does this crowd do?

:rofl: so state aid is paying more than the market value. How does that work.


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			:rofl: so state aid is paying more than the market value. How does that work.
		
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Now, I have neither the time nor the inclination to spell it all out to you, it's all out there for those interested enough to look, so here's a very very basic notion of what went on.

The land was sold as contaminated (cheaply), that day the banks gave loans at favourable rates on the same land, the lands worth at that time had been VASTLY inflated. Bought from GCC (no need to point out the connections with cfc there). That bit there is State Aid chris. So celtic could build a training ground.

Trust me, if this one gets proven, they will be in a world of trouble. And it ain't the only deal being looked at.

Now, I have proven Rangers are the same club, provided a link to do so and I really must go, my roasted cheese is waiting.


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Now, I have neither the time nor the inclination to spell it all out to you, it's all out there for those interested enough to look, so here's a very very basic notion of what went on.

The land was sold as contaminated (cheaply), that day the banks gave loans at favourable rates on the same land, the lands worth at that time had been VASTLY inflated. Bought from GCC (no need to point out the connections with cfc there). That bit there is State Aid chris. So celtic could build a training ground.

Trust me, if this one gets proven, they will be in a world of trouble. And it ain't the only deal being looked at.

Now, I have proven Rangers are the same club, provided a link to do so and I really must go, my roasted cheese is waiting.
		
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Sorry to burst your bubble 

http://www.scotzine.com/2014/01/eur...egations-of-state-aid-in-favour-of-celtic-fc/


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

SCOTZINE???? Lol lol lol that the best you can come up with? Are you aware of who runs that? Hardly an unbiased source.lol 

Bursts no one's bubble. Like I said, I ain't got the time. You need to go beyond the surface and look t the minutes of the meetings where these deals were broached and pay attention to board members etc. FOI is how you find out the people involved, all with proven links to GCC and cfc and its all out there now. 
Mind you, it could all be swept under the carpet as usual, eh?


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## chris661 (Apr 6, 2014)

Careful bow your bitterness is rising and because of that I am out. Enjoy your delusions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Careful bow your bitterness is rising and because of that I am out. Enjoy your delusions.
		
Click to expand...

It appears any bitterness isn't restricted to just one side


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## c1973 (Apr 6, 2014)

Lol my bitterness? Reckon I put out a decent argument proving my original point and some couldn't or wouldn't accept it. It's a two way street when ye have a pop you know, some have a wee pop back. 

One thing I'm not is bitter, it's only a game and win lose or draw I still have to work on Monday morning, so treat it as the game it is. You on the other hand....well.....


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

If Celtic are so dominant in Scottish football all the experts on here will know how many rounds they got through in the two Scottish Cups.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			If Celtic are so dominant in Scottish football all the experts on here will know how many rounds they got through in the two Scottish Cups.
		
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Cups are Cups - they include one off matches where one defeat puts a team out 

They should never ever be a barometer towards a team 

You can't judge a team on cups alone

The league is what shows you the state of the game in the country


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 6, 2014)

So Liverpool's European Cup wins were not worth a bucket of lard ?





or


is that different?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 6, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So Liverpool's European Cup wins were not worth a bucket of lard ?





or


is that different?
		
Click to expand...

Eh ? 

What sort of tangent is that ? 

You can't judge a club on cups "ALONE"

When did I say that winning a cup were not worth anything ?


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## Foxholer (Apr 6, 2014)

chris661 said:



			In that case provide the proof please.
		
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Speaking of which....

Â£1M/month was mentioned.

While obviously still not good, the figure I've heard recently is 600k. 

Can those stating Â£1M confirm which it is?


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## ger147 (Apr 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Speaking of which....

Â£1M/month was mentioned.

While obviously still not good, the figure I've heard recently is 600k. 

Can those stating Â£1M confirm which it is?
		
Click to expand...

Published figures are approx Â£1m per month...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-declare-7m-operating-loss.1362389318


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## ger147 (Apr 6, 2014)

Sorry, duff link 1 year out of date 

Latest figures here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26763952


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2014)

ger147 said:



			Sorry, duff link 1 year out of date 

Latest figures here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26763952

Click to expand...

That's the ones I saw too, though not from BBC.

Seems some Scots don't keep up with Scottish football!



Dodger said:



			Jesus where do I start. All anti Rangers folk are bigots.....
		
Click to expand...

Presuming that was related to my post, you need to read my post again! Where did I state 'all'? There's, unfortunately, certainly a 'significant' number, as there is in the pro-Rangers ranks imo.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 7, 2014)

I asked this earlier but did not get an answer.
Anyone know why many Rangers fans threw there shirts onto the pitch before the game started?


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 7, 2014)

Always promised myself that I wouldn't get involved in the football debates and I'm not going into the are they/aren't they the same club and all the other stuff but have got a couple of questions if anyone knows the answer. Did Rangers own Ibrox before they went bust? And if they did, why wasn't it seized and sold to pay some of their debts?


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Always promised myself that I wouldn't get involved in the football debates and I'm not going into the are they/aren't they the same club and all the other stuff but have got a couple of questions if anyone knows the answer. Did Rangers own Ibrox before they went bust? And if they did, why wasn't it seized and sold to pay some of their debts?
		
Click to expand...

They did and it was.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 7, 2014)

What kind of bemuses me is that the wider UK media still report RR beating The Rangers as a major upset! It wasn't.  I can tell you who St Johnstone would rather have had in the Scottish Cup Semi if given a choice between Aberdeen and The Rangers.  Bit of a nuisance that we got the Dons.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			They did and it was.
		
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I thought they still played at Ibrox. Did the new Rangers owners buy the stadium back?


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought they still played at Ibrox. Did the new Rangers owners buy the stadium back?
		
Click to expand...

They bought the club and all its assets, including the stadium.


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## Beezerk (Apr 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Never clarified it. But if something is liquidated how can it be the same?
		
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It's only the holding company which is different as far as I'm aware. Ranger are Rangers but with different owners.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			They bought the club and all its assets, including the stadium.
		
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Any idea on how much they paid for it? Can't imagine buying a football ground can be cheap. If a new stadium for Liverpool was going to cost 6 or 7 hundred million even a second hand one must be a couple of hundred million.


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Any idea on how much they paid for it? Can't imagine buying a football ground can be cheap. If a new stadium for Liverpool was going to cost 6 or 7 hundred million even a second hand one must be a couple of hundred million.
		
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Â£5.5M I believe!


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## StuartD (Apr 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Any idea on how much they paid for it? Can't imagine buying a football ground can be cheap. If a new stadium for Liverpool was going to cost 6 or 7 hundred million even a second hand one must be a couple of hundred million.
		
Click to expand...

A whoping 5.6 million for everything including stadium and training ground. This price was agreed with Charles green before the CVA was rejected. After the CVA was rejected there was another higher offer made bud was rejected by the Administrators. The 5.6 million just covered the Administrators fees, who then bolted with the cash. The whole transaction is being investigated by both the Police and the BDO (the company in charge of the liquidation of the oldco)


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 7, 2014)

StuartD said:



			A whoping 5.6 million for everything including stadium and training ground. This price was agreed with Charles green before the CVA was rejected. After the CVA was rejected there was another higher offer made bud was rejected by the Administrators. The 5.6 million just covered the Administrators fees, who then bolted with the cash. The whole transaction is being investigated by both the Police and the BDO (the company in charge of the liquidation of the oldco)
		
Click to expand...

Can understand why it's being investigated if that is true. Don't know what the current cost of land in/around Glasgow is but surely they could've sold the stadium and training ground for housing and got a hell of a lot more than Â£5.5 million.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Can understand why it's being investigated if that is true. Don't know what the current cost of land in/around Glasgow is but surely they could've sold the stadium and training ground for housing and got a hell of a lot more than Â£5.5 million.
		
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Guess you've never been to Ibrox then. Certainly no value in a housing development there, especially in the financial climate over the last few years.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Guess you've never been to Ibrox then. Certainly no value in a housing development there, especially in the financial climate over the last few years.
		
Click to expand...

Nope, never been there. Just assumed that maybe half a dozen 10 storey blocks of flats could fit on the site and then a load of house on the training ground. No idea what part of Glasgow either the stadium or the training ground is in. Did go to a place that I think was called Shots which is somewhere around Glasgow as that's where my grandmother was born and hired a car to take her back there when she visited me at uni to try to find the house she was born in but that's the limit of my knowledge of the area.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Nope, never been there. Just assumed that maybe half a dozen 10 storey blocks of flats could fit on the site and then a load of house on the training ground. No idea what part of Glasgow either the stadium or the training ground is in.
		
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I seriously doubt there would be a market for flats there. Plus the main stand of the stadium is a listed building so fairly limited redevelopment options.

I'm not entirely sure where the training ground is so can't really comment on that aspect.


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## User62651 (Apr 7, 2014)

When Rangers were liquidated I think I'm right in saying that all players contracts were void, that's why some walked away off to England and other countries (Naismith/Whittaker/McGregor etc).
If that is the case why were the contracts of remaining players not reset at a sensible level for lower division football, having the second highest wage bill of any club in Scotland when you're basically broke and unable to draw much tv money or sponsorship seems unbelievable and if they do go under permanently then they've themselves to blame. 
I hate the way businesses that go under can get round the taxman and leave all their creditors high and dry via CVA's. This is not a dig at Rangers but the overall situation - IMO All assets of Rangers should have been sold at a market value to pay off as many creditors as possible before any consideration to a football club continuing. It seems the old Rangers owed Â£80 million (widely varying figure) to countless other parties whilst the club now continues with most of its original assets intact and those suppliers carry the loss - could that happen in any other business? If I'd supplied goods to Rangers 2 year ago and was told the money wouldnever be forthcoming whilst the club plays over the top wages and trips to fancy hotels etc I would be livid.


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## StuartD (Apr 7, 2014)

They couldn't be reset. Players had the chioce to walk away and leave, or under TUPE regulations transfer to the Newco at the same terms and conditions. Unless the players who stayed offered to take a pay cut (some did) there contracts had to be honoured at their current rate


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2014)

maxfli65 said:



*I hate the way businesses that go under can get round the taxman and leave all their creditors high and dry via CVA's. *This is not a dig at Rangers but the overall situation - IMO All assets of Rangers should have been sold at a market value to pay off as many creditors as possible before any consideration to a football club continuing. It seems the old Rangers owed Â£80 million (widely varying figure) to countless other parties whilst the club now continues with most of its original assets intact and those suppliers carry the loss - *could that happen in any other business*? If I'd supplied goods to Rangers 2 year ago and was told the money wouldnever be forthcoming whilst the club plays over the top wages and trips to fancy hotels etc I would be livid.
		
Click to expand...

You have answered your own question! It can and does - and can send other businesses to the wall too!

I'm sure there are, indeed, plenty of livid folk out there!


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## Alan (Apr 7, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			It's only the holding company which is different as far as I'm aware. Ranger are Rangers but with different owners.
		
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No they aren't they are a complete new entity. The last club was liquidated.


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## chris661 (Apr 7, 2014)

Alan said:



			No they aren't they are a complete new entity. The last club was liquidated.
		
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But but but the ECA and.......


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## BoadieBroadus (Apr 7, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			It's only the holding company which is different as far as I'm aware. Ranger are Rangers but with different owners.
		
Click to expand...

There was no such thing as a "holding company" there was just the company which owned the stadium, the players contracts, the badge, the training ground etc in fact everything that had ever constituted "rangers." It used to be a legal entity known as a "club" in the late 1800's which was owned by its members.

This club then incorporated into a company and the club ceased to exist as any legal entity, it had become a company instead. Its members legally became shareholders.

This company was liquidated in 2012 and the shareholders then owned nothing. At which point an ethereal entity known as a club was conveniently invented and was assumed to have some sort of legal basis as people erroneously started talking about "holding companies." In reality the "club" was just a fond memory of a business that people had kept in their hearts and pretended had not ever been incorporated.

If the club had been liquidated during the season there would be much less talk of holding companies that never existed.


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## User62651 (Apr 7, 2014)

StuartD said:



			They couldn't be reset. Players had the chioce to walk away and leave, or under TUPE regulations transfer to the Newco at the same terms and conditions. Unless the players who stayed offered to take a pay cut (some did) there contracts had to be honoured at their current rate
		
Click to expand...

Could they not get rid of the overpaid under-performing players on breach of contract/gross misconduct evidenced by yesterday's poor show. 
Joking aside I seriously hope if Rangers get sorted out and start making a profit in  a few years via CL money or a Russian/Arab owner that they'll think about paying back some of those they owed before liquidation and not be too quick to wheel out the 'it's a different company to back then so we owe nothing' yet at the same time claiming 'we're the same Rangers FC since 1872' - I understand Rangers FC has proud standards/morals and that would be an opportunity to prove it. Alas I can't see it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Alan said:



			No they aren't they are a complete new entity. The last club was liquidated.
		
Click to expand...


Believe the company was liquidated and it's assets ( including club ) were sold


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2014)

The 'business history and assets' of the Club were sold to Sevco.

Would someone like to explain what else makes up the Club?


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## hoop67 (Apr 7, 2014)

Aye,sure they did !!!



maxfli65 said:



			Could they not get rid of the overpaid under-performing players on breach of contract/gross misconduct evidenced by yesterday's poor show. 
Joking aside I seriously hope if Rangers get sorted out and start making a profit in  a few years via CL money or a Russian/Arab owner that they'll think about paying back some of those they owed before liquidation and not be too quick to wheel out the 'it's a different company to back then so we owe nothing' yet at the same time claiming 'we're the same Rangers FC since 1872' - I understand Rangers FC has proud standards/morals and that would be an opportunity to prove it. Alas I can't see it.
		
Click to expand...


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## chris661 (Apr 7, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			The 'business history and assets' of the Club were sold to Sevco.

Would someone like to explain what else makes up the Club?
		
Click to expand...

Are you missing a comma there? There was/is talk of the new company buying the history. How can you buy history? You either made it or didn't.


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Are you missing a comma there? There was/is talk of the new company buying the history. How can you buy history? You either made it or didn't.
		
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:rofl:

Indeed!

How very Freudian!

As for the question? I've no idea, but that's irrelevant. That was what was purchased!

Is there anything else that makes up the (completely ethereal) 'Club'?


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 7, 2014)

So with that logic I could buy Sunningdale Golf Club and move it to Govan.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So with that logic I could buy Sunningdale Golf Club and move it to Govan.
		
Click to expand...

Do you mean in the same way that happened with Wimbledon


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So with that logic I could buy Sunningdale Golf Club and move it to Govan.
		
Click to expand...

I don't believe you could! But probably because that is a genuine Club!

You might have more success buying The Wentworth Club though, as that is a company, as are Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen, Falkirk, Dundee United and probably all the other SFL 'clubs' in Scotland (or FL ones in England).

So the idea that any of these are actually Football Clubs is wrong anyway. They operate Sports Facilities, part of which is running a Football Team. Now the Team is something real! And that is actually what I believe the supporters follow! Can they actually touch the Football Club - that is not actually the <whatever> Company?



Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean in the same way that happened with Wimbledon 

Click to expand...

Indeed, but that didn't turn out to be such a good move! another Phoenix though!


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## Dodger (Apr 7, 2014)




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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I don't believe you could! But probably because that is a genuine Club!

You might have more success buying The Wentworth Club though, as that is a company, as are Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen, Falkirk, Dundee United and probably all the other SFL 'clubs' in Scotland (or FL ones in England).

So the idea that any of these are actually Football Clubs is wrong anyway. They operate Sports Facilities, part of which is running a Football Team. Now the Team is something real! And that is actually what I believe the supporters follow! Can they actually touch the Football Club - that is not actually the <whatever> Company?



Indeed, but that didn't turn out to be such a good move! another Phoenix though!
		
Click to expand...


Why didn't it turn out to be a good move ? Seems to be working pretty well


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If "we" is Celtic then great - you win a one team league again - not exactly a challenge is it.
		
Click to expand...

Blackburn , Dundee, Amsterdam. Banners on Lee rigby at brentford

Get a grip and grow up with your tit for tat nonsense. Both fans are as bad as each other with certain fans of each club rotten to the core you seem to be the latter


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Jdb2005 said:



			Blackburn , Dundee, Amsterdam. Banners on Lee rigby at brentford

Get a grip and grow up with your tit for tat nonsense. Both fans are as bad as each other with certain fans of each club rotten to the core you seem to be the latter
		
Click to expand...

Im neither a Celtic nor a Rangers fan

No idea what Blackburn, Dundee etc means ?


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## chris661 (Apr 7, 2014)

Jdb2005 said:



			Blackburn , Dundee, Amsterdam. Banners on Lee rigby at brentford

Get a grip and grow up with your tit for tat nonsense. Both fans are as bad as each other with certain fans of each club rotten to the core you seem to be the latter
		
Click to expand...

 have you been drowning your sorrows?


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			But as I said earlier we are still  the ONLY show in town and today has been another beautiful gift from the gift that just continues to keep giving.


Sweet as a nut.

Also I see the bears have decided to try and roll the clock back to Manchester and smash Edinburgh up today.......salt of the earth them bears,they really are.
		
Click to expand...


Blackburn , Dundee, Amsterdam. Banners on Lee rigby at brentford

Get a grip and grow up with your tit for tat nonsense. Both fans are as bad as each other with certain fans of each club rotten to the core you seem to be the latter


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Im neither a Celtic nor a Rangers fan



Sorry Phil clicked on wrong post to quote
No idea what Blackburn, Dundee etc means ?
		
Click to expand...

Sorry clicked on wrong post to quote phil


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## Jdb2005 (Apr 7, 2014)

chris661 said:



 have you been drowning your sorrows?
		
Click to expand...

Not really we were in a cup final and Raith won. I fully understand where my club is and the current rate it's deteriorating at. We have no right to beat anyone at the moment . But I will always support them.


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## Dodger (Apr 7, 2014)

Jdb2005 said:



			Blackburn , Dundee, Amsterdam. Banners on Lee rigby at brentford

Get a grip and grow up with your tit for tat nonsense. Both fans are as bad as each other with certain fans of each club rotten to the core you seem to be the latter
		
Click to expand...

Hurting much?

It amazes me when folk cannot take the ribbing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Hurting much?

It amazes me when folk cannot take the ribbing.
		
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I wonder what your reaction would be to "ribbing" from Rangers fans ?


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## Dodger (Apr 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder what your reaction would be to "ribbing" from Rangers fans ?
		
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Trust me,there has been plenty over the years before they died and all taken on the chin.Folk that spit the dummy amuse me no end.It's a game of football for Christ sake.

StuartD and I give and take and have done for years,why can't more take it this way?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Trust me,there has been plenty over the years before they died and all taken on the chin.Folk that spit the dummy amuse me no end.It's a game of football for Christ sake.

StuartD and I give and take and have done for years,why can't more take it this way?
		
Click to expand...

Because football is an emotive sport - people get connected to their clubs and at times take things personal

That wont change


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## Dodger (Apr 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because football is an emotive sport - people get connected to their clubs and at times take things personal

That wont change
		
Click to expand...

And does that make it okay? Accusing folk you don't know as being 'rotten to the core' is fine because football is an 'emotive sport'?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			And does that make it okay? Accusing folk you don't know as being 'rotten to the core' is fine because football is an 'emotive sport'?
		
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It happens - you either brush it off or you react. 

You should hear some of things that get said about our fans with things that have happened to us.


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## StuartD (Apr 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			StuartD and I give and take and have done for years,why can't more take it this way?
		
Click to expand...

Eh!????!?!? Can't remember the last time I gave anything out.

It's all just take, take take take, take :whoo:


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## Dodger (Apr 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It happens - you either brush it off or you react. 

You should hear some of things that get said about our fans with things that have happened to us.
		
Click to expand...

I'll ask again, is accusing folk you don't know as being 'rotten to the core' okay because football is an 'emotive sport'?

Genuinely interested. If the answer is yes then I'll keep that excuse right up my sleeve should I ever need to use one.:whoo:


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			I'll ask again, is accusing folk you don't know as being 'rotten to the core' okay because football is an 'emotive sport'?

Genuinely interested. If the answer is yes then I'll keep that excuse right up my sleeve should I ever need to use one.:whoo:
		
Click to expand...


Its never ok to accuse people of anything when you dont know them.


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## Dodger (Apr 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its never ok to accuse people of anything when you dont know them.
		
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We should have a game of golf some time Phil. Just remind me to secure my hub caps.


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## Foxholer (Apr 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why didn't it turn out to be a good move ? Seems to be working pretty well
		
Click to expand...

A period of Administration and relegation followed pretty soon after!



Dodger said:



			We should have a game of golf some time Phil. Just remind me to secure my hub caps.

Click to expand...

Hub caps (I remember them!) are probably the least of the worries in some areas!

In fact, we had to laugh at the audacity of the Musselburgh guys (better not say boys) depositing a VW Combi on the Green of the MOC 5th - sans wheels of course - one evening!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Dodger said:



			We should have a game of golf some time Phil. Just remind me to secure my hub caps.

Click to expand...

I have moved on from that :angry:
















Now prefer the whole car


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 7, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			A period of Administration and relegation followed pretty soon after!
		
Click to expand...

Wimbledon ?

Wimbledon moved to MK then became the MK Dons now with a very good stadium which is always improving and got a good base for the future


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## Foxholer (Apr 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wimbledon ?

Wimbledon moved to MK then became the MK Dons now with a very good stadium which is always improving and got a good base for the future
		
Click to expand...



Check out the history!

Fine now though - thus my (marginally incorrect) Phoenix reference.


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## Beezerk (Apr 8, 2014)

BoadieBroadus said:



			There was no such thing as a "holding company" there was just the company which owned the stadium, the players contracts, the badge, the training ground etc in fact everything that had ever constituted "rangers." It used to be a legal entity known as a "club" in the late 1800's which was owned by its members.

This club then incorporated into a company and the club ceased to exist as any legal entity, it had become a company instead. Its members legally became shareholders.

This company was liquidated in 2012 and the shareholders then owned nothing. At which point an ethereal entity known as a club was conveniently invented and was assumed to have some sort of legal basis as people erroneously started talking about "holding companies." In reality the "club" was just a fond memory of a business that people had kept in their hearts and pretended had not ever been incorporated.

If the club had been liquidated during the season there would be much less talk of holding companies that never existed.
		
Click to expand...

Great answer mate.
In fairness it was a Rangers fan who was explaining it to me and it was some time ago lol.


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