# When to progress to blades/forged/tour irons??



## Danny88 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hi All, 

First post here. 

I have now been playing golf seriously for just about 2 years and after throwing cash at a load of lessons and practising most days a week I have got my handicap down to 10 and really starting to play good golf and right now the golf of my life, I can work the ball both ways and my last 8 rounds have been in the 70's all of my friends I play with are below 5 handicap so I feel that has had a huge impact on my development.

Anyway my question is when should I progress to more advanced irons? I have been told by most the guys I play with forged/blades are a lot better for shaping the ball and gaining spin on approach shots? is this true? 

And should I think about moving away from cavity's now? I just want to keep progressing with my game but do not want to run before I can walk so to speak?! 

Thank you for your time and any feedback and info you feel would be helpful to me will be much appreciated because I am still very much a beginner within the sport


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## virtuocity (Jul 24, 2015)

Danny88 said:



			Hi All, 
I have *got my handicap down to 10* and really starting to play good golf and right now the golf of my life, *I can work the ball both ways* and my *last 8 rounds have been in the 70's* all of my friends I play with are below 5 handicap so I feel that has had a huge impact on my development.
		
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Danny88 said:



			And should I think about moving away from cavity's now?
		
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Sounds like your current irons work just fine.  Great progress.


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## Imurg (Jul 24, 2015)

The answer is " When you want to".
Generally, the bladier you go the more precise your ball striking has to be to maintain performance.
On a good day, almost anyone can use blades
But on a dodgy swing day they can punish you.
I can have good and bad days with irons.
With my RAZR X Tours my bad shots are so much better than my bad shots with bladed, forged irons. And the good shots are just as good.
Get blades by all means. But I'd only get them if they improved my game.


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## Danny88 (Jul 24, 2015)

Imurg said:



			The answer is " When you want to".
Generally, the bladier you go the more precise your ball striking has to be to maintain performance.
On a good day, almost anyone can use blades
But on a dodgy swing day they can punish you.
I can have good and bad days with irons.
With my RAZR X Tours my bad shots are so much better than my bad shots with bladed, forged irons. And the good shots are just as good.
Get blades by all means. But I'd only get them if they improved my game.
		
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Great answer, I think with my ball striking as it is now and the progress I'm making, I would hate something like changing clubs to hinder that, maybe keep moving forward keep getting better and hopefully if that's the case maybe look at forged/blades next season. :fore:


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## Imurg (Jul 24, 2015)

Maybe find a single iron on eBay with the right shaft and the level of "bladiness" that you have in mind, give it a go from time to time, judge it against your club.....


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## brendy (Jul 24, 2015)

Who says you "have to" move to forged/bladed irons?
Ive been down this road and played with MP37's and Titleist MB 710's, Ive gone to TM Tour Preferred MC's now and love them every bit as much as the previous non cavities but for totally different reasons.
If you miss the sweet spot at all on players irons, they go nowhere, but they look fantastic in the bag.
The TM's have a much more forgiving head (KBS satin C taper shafts look amazing too) look well in the bag but when hit just off centre, they still get the distance.

Not exactly ugly are they?


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## Danny88 (Jul 24, 2015)

Look Nice!! :thup: so are the MC's not forged? I have looked at those before they are nice and appeal to me, defo staying with Taylormade I love the feel of Taylormade irons, do you think these would be a decent step from my rocketbladez (non tour) I play now? and are the MB's much different to MC's or just a newer model?


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## Snelly (Jul 24, 2015)

My answer to the question would be never unless you become exceptional (scratch or better) OR whenever you feel like it if you want to.

Forget true blades would be my advice though.  Better go for a tour spec cavity iron or a forged iron that has forgiveness.  There is no point making golf more difficult than it already is, unless you really like the look of some bladed irons and want them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2015)

Snelly said:



			My answer to the question would be never unless you become exceptional (scratch or better) OR whenever you feel like it if you want to.

Forget true blades would be my advice though.  Better go for a tour spec cavity iron or a forged iron that has forgiveness.  There is no point making golf more difficult than it already is, unless you really like the look of some bladed irons and want them.
		
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Snelly talks sense. I'd forget out and out blades and get something with a cavity to get the maximum from off centre hits. The simple answer is to try and many head and shaft options you can lay your hands on and see what suits. A launch monitor will help but don't get bogged down with the numbers alone


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## pendodave (Jul 24, 2015)

I think that your mates are getting worried and trying to get inside your head/slow down your progress....

Good golfers get better by playing better golf, not by buying new kit.

Lots of tour pros play with irons similar to yours, and not too many of them have any trouble doing what they want with a golf ball.


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## brendy (Jul 24, 2015)

Danny88 said:



			Look Nice!! :thup: so are the MC's not forged? I have looked at those before they are nice and appeal to me, defo staying with Taylormade I love the feel of Taylormade irons, do you think these would be a decent step from my rocketbladez (non tour) I play now? and are the MB's much different to MC's or just a newer model?
		
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3-7 are cast and 8,9 +pw are forged (also no speed slot on sole like the 3-7). MC is the slight cavity version where the MB'S are muscle backs and probably a tad harsher on the mis-hits.
When pros are playing AP1's,  AP2's, i25's, RSI1's etc it makes you wonder why bother with muscle backs or blades at all.


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## the_coach (Jul 24, 2015)

my take would say that really is a wrong ways to look at what clubs you have or should put in the bag

look at the guys who play the game as their livelihood & now around 75%+ on the PGA tour use some kinda 'cavity back'
on the LPGA there's only a real small bunch of players that still use pure blades less than 5%

so it's not something that you get to a 'level' & the 'done' thing is you gotta change to 'player irons' folks leaning to give you that kinda advice have probably forgotten all the times they've missed center by 1/4" & come up a good ways short of target 

as you move down the index the most important thing as far the 'irons side' of the game to score better, is GIR - most important thing to GIR is a having a real sound handle on consistent distance control
the most important thing for dc is quality of strike as you gotta have control over your trajectory so that doesn't change - unless you meant it to

but if the thing is, you looking at having a set of blades because the way they 'look' is real 'calling you' then that's a different kinda consideration .... 

if you can't resist the call & you make the buy - you'll have to spend some time to rework what your average distances through the bag are (carry) as the lofts will be weaker through the bag
yep if you are buying new, then you can usually custom spec 1Âº or 2Âº strong - but you gotta make sure you have an average swing speed necessary to be able to flight them good still

as far as working the ball, spin there will be no real difference to the tour spec cavs - but if you miss center you won't be a whole club or more short as you would with the blades

but in the end guess it all will depend just how far the 'blade worm' has got in the head ......

if you take a can of 'foot' or 'dry shampoo' spray & at a couple of range sessions, spray the face & work through the bag (3-9) to see just how you consistent you are at really nailing center .... that might get the 'blade worm' out


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 25, 2015)

One other thing to consider is what they will do to your miss.  As the_coach says, miss the middle and you'll come up a club short, but where will you come up that club short?  last time I did a fitting, the cavity/GI irons went pretty much the same distance regardless of where I hit them, but the dispersion suffered as I missed the sweetspot.  With the blades, the distance suffered, but the dispersion barely changed.  So depending on where the trouble is at the courses you play, you might wan to consider this.

If you are looking for one to try out, try your nearest Mizuno centre around the turn of the year; they tend to clear out the fitting cart for next year's stock, so you can pick up a 6 iron of two to try.


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## Ethan (Jul 25, 2015)

OK, so most of you buy the 'blades are too hard to hit' idea. 

Let me counter some of that. 

Some of us grew up playing blades because that was all there was unless you wanted something that looked like it was designed to rake a coal fire. Back then, blades were small and had tiny sweet spots, not helped by the balls which were pretty rubbish. Nowadays, blades are easier to hit, as are the balls, and some are being designed to have wider appeal, for example the new Mizuno MP5 iron which is designed to be a blade for all handicaps. They have better weight distribution and balance and you won't lose a club or more if you miss the sweet spot by a micron. 

I switched from Callaway X Hot Pros, reputed to be a long hitting iron, to MP4s with the exact same shaft and I haven't changed my clubbing around Bearwood Lakes at all. The benefits of blades is not in long irons, but who hits long irons from the fairway these days? I rarely do. But with shorter irons, blades give a crisper, softer and more satisfying strike. You probably already use blade wedges. So One way forward is a combo set. You can buy some off the shelf, like the Nike Pro Combo, and with other brands you can blend a set, say MP4 or 5, wedge to 7 iron, MP25 6 to 3 or 4. That could give the best of both worlds.


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## MashieNiblick (Jul 25, 2015)

With regard to shaping shots with blades, I have found blades are great for ground hugging running shots (Nov- Feb I call these stingers - get out with a set when it's 5 degrees and you'll find out why), weak fades/slices (these work really well when hit out of the toe - lack of practice helps), and a sort of low hooky ducking right to lefter.

The one shot they are less good for I have found is one that flies straight and high, landing softly on the green.

Interestingly this chap is happy with cavity clubs (Titleist AP1 and AP2). 







Nice trophy. Wonder when he'll be good enough to move up to the MB's. Maybe if he practised a bit more.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 25, 2015)

Get all the help you can.   My i20s are just perfect for me.


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## Ethan (Jul 26, 2015)

MashieNiblick said:



			With regard to shaping shots with blades, I have found blades are great for ground hugging running shots (Nov- Feb I call these stingers - get out with a set when it's 5 degrees and you'll find out why), weak fades/slices (these work really well when hit out of the toe - lack of practice helps), and a sort of low hooky ducking right to lefter.

The one shot they are less good for I have found is one that flies straight and high, landing softly on the green.

Interestingly this chap is happy with cavity clubs (Titleist AP1 and AP2). 

Nice trophy. Wonder when he'll be good enough to move up to the MB's. Maybe if he practised a bit more.



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Sounds more like a problem with the player than the equipment. If you can't hit a straight high shot with a blade, you can't hit one with an AP2 either. 

Zach does indeed use APs (although only 1 of them is an AP1), but then they are the bigger sellers in the Titleist range and Titleist encourage their staffers to play them.

Lets examine a slightly bigger data set. Say last 10 years of Open Champions. Last year's winner, Rory, uses blades, as did Phil Mick in 2013, the one from the year before that, Ernie Els, and the year before that, Darren Clarke. OK, the year before that, Louis Oosthuizen used Ping S57, those are pretty blades but have a small cavity. Anyway, on to 2009, Stewart Cibk, yep, blades, 2008 and 2007, Paddy H used cavity back pPi7s. 2006, Tiger, blades. 

So, what was the point exactly?


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## Jacko_G (Jul 26, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Sounds more like a problem with the player than the equipment. If you can't hit a straight high shot with a blade, you can't hit one with an AP2 either. 

Zach does indeed use APs (although only 1 of them is an AP1), but then they are the bigger sellers in the Titleist range and Titleist encourage their staffers to play them.

Lets examine a slightly bigger data set. Say last 10 years of Open Champions. Last year's winner, Rory, uses blades, as did Phil Mick in 2013, the one from the year before that, Ernie Els, and the year before that, Darren Clarke. OK, the year before that, Louis Oosthuizen used Ping S57, those are pretty blades but have a small cavity. Anyway, on to 2009, Stewart Cibk, yep, blades, 2008 and 2007, Paddy H used cavity back pPi7s. 2006, Tiger, blades. 

So, what was the point exactly?
		
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I would suggest the point is play what you feel comfortable playing with!

Blade or cavity, forged or cast, graphite or steel, hit the ball out of the middle of the club it's going to feel awesome - regardless.


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## Snelly (Jul 26, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Sounds more like a problem with the player than the equipment. If you can't hit a straight high shot with a blade, you can't hit one with an AP2 either. 

Zach does indeed use APs (although only 1 of them is an AP1), but then they are the bigger sellers in the Titleist range and Titleist encourage their staffers to play them.

Lets examine a slightly bigger data set. Say last 10 years of Open Champions. Last year's winner, Rory, uses blades, as did Phil Mick in 2013, the one from the year before that, Ernie Els, and the year before that, Darren Clarke. OK, the year before that, Louis Oosthuizen used Ping S57, those are pretty blades but have a small cavity. Anyway, on to 2009, Stewart Cibk, yep, blades, 2008 and 2007, Paddy H used cavity back pPi7s. 2006, Tiger, blades. 

So, what was the point exactly?
		
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My point would be you are not quite as good as any of them and as a consequence, should be looking for every little bit of help that your equipment can give you. 

Blades are fine for these boys though, just as they are fine for people who like pretty, shiny things.  As I said, blades are for experts, or people who like blades. 

Anyone saying that blades don't make golf that bit more difficult is mistaken, for whatever reason.


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## MashieNiblick (Jul 27, 2015)

Ethan said:



			So, what was the point exactly?
		
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4 points

1. It is easier to hit poor shots with blades
2. It is harder to hit good shots with blades
3. There isn't a standard at which you _should _ "progress" to using blades
4. Maybe raise a smile

Based on my experience of using blades and the fact that even one of the best players in the world doesn't feel the need to progress to blades.

1 and 2 are indeed  down to problem with the player, in that if I was as good as Rory I would not have those problems, but my lack of ability is exacerbated by the equipment.


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## Spear-Chucker (Jul 27, 2015)

Some well thought out points but ultimately for amateurs we make a choice based partly on performance but mostly on the entertainment and amusement factor. We're not paying mortgages based upon GIR and if we fancy blades then why not. This then leads to my point that by playing something we are creatively engaged with will help us anyway rather than something a bit dull and functional that we're a little ambivalent about.

Fully subscribe to Ethan's point about shorter irons being much more satisfying and my view is that they are more effective too hence the prevalence of them in tour bags.


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## Oddsocks (Aug 4, 2015)

Danny88 said:



			Hi All, 

First post here. 

I have now been playing golf seriously for just about 2 years and after throwing cash at a load of lessons and practising most days a week I have got my handicap down to 10 and really starting to play good golf and right now the golf of my life, I can work the ball both ways and my last 8 rounds have been in the 70's all of my friends I play with are below 5 handicap so I feel that has had a huge impact on my development.

Anyway my question is when should I progress to more advanced irons? I have been told by most the guys I play with forged/blades are a lot better for shaping the ball and gaining spin on approach shots? is this true? 

And should I think about moving away from cavity's now? I just want to keep progressing with my game but do not want to run before I can walk so to speak?! 

Thank you for your time and any feedback and info you feel would be helpful to me will be much appreciated because I am still very much a beginner within the sport  

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I got to 8 with my old bats (2010 taylormade cb's) and treated myself to the newer 2014 mc's because I was playing well..... Biggest mistake I've made so far. 

I watched a 4 capper shot +2 with a set of Dunlop 65 irons that he purchased from sports direct for Â£2 a club, the only branded premium clan in his bag was a 4/5 year old cally driver.  

My point is if your bats got you to 10 and you trust them..... Stick with it man!  Confidence has a high premium


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