# FA Cup Final Liverpool v Chelsea



## Naybrains (May 4, 2012)

What you reckon then folks?  I fancy Liverpool 2-1.


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## McilroyFan (May 4, 2012)

Same here


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## Luulox (May 4, 2012)

liverpool win 2-0


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## kmdmr1 (May 4, 2012)

3-1 to chelsea (I hope) Goalscorers below:
Torres 2
Drogba 1
Suraze 1


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## BeachGolfer (May 4, 2012)

Liverpool win. Suarez 5 dives to Drogba's 4.


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## Essex_Stu (May 4, 2012)

Hate to say it but I can see Liverpool beating us 2-0. They seem to do well in the cups and we look knackered.


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## G1BB0 (May 4, 2012)

tough one to call, as a massive red I hope we beat them by 2 clear goals so am going for 4-2 Liverpool


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## connor (May 4, 2012)

think we will do well against chelsea always seem to pull something a little extra against them boys.  On a stag do tomorrow but managed to sway the stag we should watch the game whilst doing drinking game  would suggest doing a shot every time drogba hits the deck but think we may go home early if thats the case....


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## Rooter (May 4, 2012)

1-1 then the mighty reds to nick it on pens.


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## Chrimbo (May 4, 2012)

Is it possible for both sides to lose :mmm:


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## Liverbirdie (May 4, 2012)

connor said:



			think we will do well against chelsea always seem to pull something a little extra against them boys.  On a stag do tomorrow but managed to sway the stag we should watch the game whilst doing drinking game  would suggest doing a shot every time drogba hits the deck but think we may go home early if thats the case....
		
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Could easily go either way, only 1 goal in it I reckon.

I will be in section 520 row 3, and on the way down I will be mostly eating ox tongue and corned beef sarnies.

So I predict I will do 8 farts in the first half so Suarez and Drogba will cost you at least 8 slugs. I wonder if you'll make extra time?


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## 6inchcup (May 4, 2012)

chelsea to win,could not stand to see or hear dalglish giving an interview after the game without sub titles.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 4, 2012)

Will be a tight and turgid affair. 1-1 at full time and can see it going to penalties. Chelsea to nick it. Won't finish 11 a side


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## richart (May 4, 2012)

When I was a kid, the FA Cup final was the big match of the year. One of the few to be televised. Now it holds little attraction to me, unless the Royals suddenly get to next years final after 142 years of trying.:mmm:


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## MegaSteve (May 4, 2012)

Well I'll be sitting down at my usual time of three to watch the cup final and apparently it starts at five fifteen... So looks like I won't be seeing much footie... Am I bothered?


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## Stuart_C (May 5, 2012)

I'm just getting ready to board our charra down to wembley.

I don't care how or who scores so long as the redmen win.

I wonder if chelseas plastic flag waving brigade will be out in force today?


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## vig (May 5, 2012)

I hope they both lose.

Massive melee, Gerrard, Suarez,Downing,Terry,Cole,Mikel All sent off, all suffering facial injuries,,,   no scratch that last bit, won't notice a difference.

Will I be watching it?.......
Where's my knitting pattern.


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## Naybrains (May 5, 2012)

Have a great day Stuart & Liverbirdie hope the result goes your way! Wish I was there I'm flying down to Brum at lunchtime for the Villa - Spurs Game tommorow. Would rather be at Wembley though! 
Great stadium , great occasion.


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## jammag (May 5, 2012)

Di Matteo seems to get the tactics right, I think he has the edge on this one. Good memories for him to scoring the quickest FA Cup final goal against Middlesbrough. I fancy Chelsea to win this easily, Drogba 2 Torres 1, Chelsea 3-0.


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## jpenno (May 5, 2012)

Not going today, Me, wife and kids only got 2 tickts out of four in the ballot despite having been to 18 home league games (+ Chelsea next week) 2 aways and All Cup ties - seriously pee'd off with the ticket allocations so have passed ours on to mate in similar position so he can take his 8 yr old son (on current form it will be a long time before we will be at Wembley again), All 4 of us are off to Anfield to watch on the big screen, not quite the same but atleast we are all together.

Have a horrible feeling that Torres will return to haunt us.


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## In_The_Rough (May 5, 2012)

Could be good night nurse now 2-0 to Chelski


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## In_The_Rough (May 5, 2012)

Game on again 2-1!!


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## G1BB0 (May 5, 2012)

jeez we need goal line technology and instant bans for feigning injury *******s!!!!


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## In_The_Rough (May 5, 2012)

Kennys rotten season is finally confirmed. Glad Chelsea won anyway as I dont think LFC deserve 2 cups as for most part this season they have been awful.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 5, 2012)

Well played Chelsea!

Liverpool were poor and need to find a manager who knows the modern game and has a plan b.  Throughout the game the Liverpool midfield were non-existent - Gerrard is long past his best and MUST NOT be on the plane for England this summer.  Carroll only gave them the long ball option.


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## G1BB0 (May 5, 2012)

yawn


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## G1BB0 (May 5, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Kennys rotten season is finally confirmed. Glad Chelsea won anyway as I dont think LFC deserve 2 cups as for most part this season they have been awful.
		
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Rotten? as per usual we beat or run the top teams close but lose when we should win, yes league position says a lot but I would rather win 1 cup, nearly win another than finish 4th just...


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## In_The_Rough (May 5, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			Rotten? as per usual we beat or run the top teams close but lose when we should win, yes league position says a lot but I would rather win 1 cup, nearly win another *than finish 4th *just...
		
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Bet the Yank owners disagree lot a money to miss out on. Got to give Kenny the boot if you wanna be more than a cup side.


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## chris661 (May 5, 2012)

G1BB0 said:



			Rotten? as per usual we beat or run the top teams close but lose when we should win, yes league position says a lot but I would rather win 1 cup, nearly win another than finish 4th just...
		
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Just as well then cos with super Kenny in charge that's all you've got to look forward too.......


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## BeachGolfer (May 5, 2012)

Very ordinary starter for this weekends footy entertainment. Bring on NUFC and City for the real stuff tomorrow.

FA hang your heads in shame for 1) not playing the FA cup final as the proper season ending finale at 3pm 2) that piss poor Superbowl effort of a show. Do you really think football fans want to see or care about such toilet?


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## AuburnWarrior (May 5, 2012)

BeachGolfer said:



			FA hang your heads in shame for 1) not playing the FA cup final as the proper season ending finale at 3pm
		
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I concur!


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## pokerjoke (May 5, 2012)

Carrol was impressive when he came on.
Would take him to the Euros on that form,not many
defenders would enjoy that battle.


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## In_The_Rough (May 5, 2012)

All bout money chaps thats all it is.


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## Tiger (May 5, 2012)

I sat at home and saw the Liverpool line up and thought if you set up like that you've got no chance. You can't play Suarez up top on his own against Terry and Ivanovic. Game changed when Carroll came on because Chelsea defenders had it harder, physical presence of Carroll plus Suarez possibly nipping in behind. Liverpool also showed more urgency. If that is the level of Dalglish's tactical nous I should be a Premier League manager. Buys average players, for too much money and deploys the most naive tactics ever. 

Why the hell Spearing was in the holding role in a match of this magnitude is beyond me. A shadow of the team Benitez left behind. Ian Rush's face when Drogba scored said it all


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## G1BB0 (May 5, 2012)

Tiger said:



			I sat at home and saw the Liverpool line up and thought if you set up like that you've got no chance. You can't play Suarez up top on his own against Terry and Ivanovic. Game changed when Carroll came on because Chelsea defenders had it harder, physical presence of Carroll plus Suarez possibly nipping in behind. Liverpool also showed more urgency. If that is the level of Dalglish's tactical nous I should be a Premier League manager. Buys average players, for too much money and deploys the most naive tactics ever. 

Why the hell Spearing was in the holding role in a match of this magnitude is beyond m
e. A shadow of the team Benitez left behind. Ian Rush's face when Drogba scored said it all
		
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I have to agree


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## Doon frae Troon (May 5, 2012)

The fac up with Budwieser...says it all.

Looking forward to the Dunkin Doughnuts London Marathon after the MacDonalds by Cocacola Olympics.

Why do we always have to follow American rubbish. Do we not have any class left in this country.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 5, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Do we not have any class left in this country.
		
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Jeremy Kyle.
The Only Way is Essex.
Jodie Marsh.
Jordan
Geordie Shore

No!


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## PieMan (May 5, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Jeremy Kyle.
The Only Way is Essex.
Jodie Marsh.
Jordan
Geordie Shore

No! 

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No 'Big Fat Gypsy Wedding'? Bet you secretly love that one! 

Watched the game with my two boys, who were really thrilled. As much as I am delighted the Blues won, Liverpool were dreadful in the first half - looked like a training game for the Chelsea back four. Sods law though that they'll go and beat us on Tuesday now though!


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## Neddy (May 5, 2012)

I posted on my facebook just before kick off that if Jay Spearing can get into an FA Cup final team then I can win the open....

I stand by my comment.

Think it's time for the Liverpool fans to accept that Dalglish is out of his depth. Never go back.


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## bozza (May 5, 2012)

Liverpool were comtley outplayed for the first hour.

Suarez up front on his own was so negative and just shows that Queen Kenny is out of his depth. 

I think he is doing a great job though!


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## In_The_Rough (May 5, 2012)

My uncle is a UTD fan unfortunately and he is praying that Kenny does not get booted in the summer he is even hoping they extend his contract. That says it all really about how poorly he is thought of.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 5, 2012)

Slept through a lot of it so can't comment fully. I thought Spearing looked out of his depth and that Liverpool seemed to be changing positions every five minutes in the forst half with no-one seemingly knowing where to play and their role. They did do better after going 2-0 down (missed the 2nd) but too little too late.

I am wondering whether Dalgleish is the man. A cup win and a final is all well and good but a side of Liverpools heritage need to be competing for a top four place and CL football and not scrambling to make do with the Europa league which is looking doubtful now. From what I've seen on TV recently Liverpool really don't look a good side and are three or four (minimum) top players short. When you bear in mind how many of the top clubs fielded a lot of reserves and breakthrough players for the Carling Cup, certainly until the semi final was it really such a prestigious win.


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## jpenno (May 5, 2012)

Homer - Europa League was guaranteed with the carling Cup win which has been part of the problem, after january 4th place was gone and then the Europa league place was secured in february, nothing to play for in the league and a few players know this is their last season so wont amke an effort unless its the cup with a chance of a medal.

Kenny is NOT the man to take us forward, i would have Rafa back tonight, or anyone else who has a bit of technical nouse and plays players in their best position!


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## Slime (May 5, 2012)

jpenno said:



			Kenny is NOT the man to take us forward, i would have Rafa back tonight,
		
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Tiger (May 6, 2012)

jpenno said:



			Kenny is NOT the man to take us forward, i would have Rafa back tonight, or anyone else who has a bit of technical nouse and plays players in their best position!
		
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I distinctly remember Liverpool fans getting fed up with Benitez's style of football and failure to compete in the league. Bring back Kenny they said as they harangued Hodgson, bring back the King for he will save us. Hindsight's a wonderful thing isn't it.


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## MegaSteve (May 6, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Jeremy Kyle.
The Only Way is Essex.
Jodie Marsh.
Jordan
Geordie Shore

No! 

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I only recognise one of those names ... Is that a good or a bad thing?


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## Sir Slicealot (May 6, 2012)

Tiger said:



			I distinctly remember Liverpool fans getting fed up with Benitez's style of football and failure to compete in the league. Bring back Kenny they said as they harangued Hodgson, bring back the King for he will save us. Hindsight's a wonderful thing isn't it. 

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Trouble for Kenny is, the Liverpool team he has now is nowhere near the standard it was when Rafa was at the helm.


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## Tiger (May 6, 2012)

Sir Slicealot said:



			Trouble for Kenny is, the Liverpool team he has now is nowhere near the standard it was when Rafa was at the helm.
		
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The trouble for Kenny is that the transfer market has changed. When he was in his pomp at Liverpool the transfer market was not global. English clubs predominantly bought UK & Irish players. Transfer fees weren't inflated and Liverpool dominated the transfer market much like City do today. 

I cannot buy the argument that the squad isn't as good as Benitez's. Yes Gerrard's star has waned, and for my money he should redefine himself as a defensive midfielder, but how much has he spent on Suarez, Carroll, Henderson, Adam, Downing, Enrique etc... Enrique was a top performer at Newcastle as was Carroll, Dalglish has broken them both. 

People talk about Dalglish's success at Liverpool in his first stint. That's nonsense. He was a great player but as a manager he inherited the work of Paisley and Shankly. They are the real managerial legends. If it was me I'd build the team around Carroll and play a 4-4-1-1 formation. I'd play Suarez off Carroll and invest in wingers who can actually beat a man and get a cross in. Dyer and Sinclair at Swansea would be on my transfer list. Get it wide and cross early or play it to Carroll to lay off to Suarez. 

While teams are fretting about the width and the long ball, Suarez will have a whole load of space to exploit. But then again I'm not that fussed as I'm not a Liverpool fan...if I was I'd be spewing!


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## Sir Slicealot (May 6, 2012)

Tiger said:



			People talk about Dalglish's success at Liverpool in his first stint. That's nonsense. He was a great player but as a manager he inherited the work of Paisley and Shankly. .
		
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There was a couple of seasons gap between Dalglish and Paisley, but yes i do agree, there was a fair amount of inherited work. That said, if he was incompetant as a manager, the sucess would have dropped off fairly quickly and not carried on for 6 seasons. Add to that what he did at Blackburn, 2nd division play off winners in 1992 to Premier league champions 3 years later. Sure, it helped that Jack Walker pumped loads of money into the club, but thats no different from Man Utd, City or Chelsea. I think its worth pointing out that Ferguson took over 3 years to win anything with United, although i will agree that football is a different animal these days.


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## Tiger (May 6, 2012)

Sir Slicealot said:



			There was a couple of seasons gap between Dalglish and Paisley, but yes i do agree, there was a fair amount of inherited work. That said, if he was incompetant as a manager, the sucess would have dropped off fairly quickly and not carried on for 6 seasons. Add to that what he did at Blackburn, 2nd division play off winners in 1992 to Premier league champions 3 years later. Sure, it helped that Jack Walker pumped loads of money into the club, but thats no different from Man Utd, City or Chelsea. I think its worth pointing out that Ferguson took over 3 years to win anything with United, although i will agree that football is a different animal these days.
		
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A great manager can reinvigorate a team. Ferguson has done it at least three times at Utd. Once the backbone of his Liverpool team retired it was all over for Kenny. At Blackburn he spent fortunes but couldn't sustain the success. I'm not saying he's a bad manager, I just don't think he's as great as some Liverpool fans like to think he is.


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## In_The_Rough (May 6, 2012)

Add to that his catastrophic failure at Celtic and Newcastle and his current spell at Liverpool!! Allright he won the league at Blackburn after spending stupid amounts of money at the time but what happened the season after they won the league he scuttled off out of the way upstairs and left Ray Harford with the job and they nearly got relegated. He did the same at Liverpool as well cleared off out of the way when it looked like they were on the way down from the top, I know the Hillsborough affair did effect him but still he jumped ship when it looked like going pear shaped. Very poor manager IMO if he was not such an LFC legend as a player he would have been shown the door long ago


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## Liverbirdie (May 6, 2012)

"People talk about Dalglish's success at Liverpool in his first stint. That's nonsense. He was a great player but as a manager he inherited the work of Paisley and Shankly."

Thats just like saying that Fergie inherited the work of Matt Busby.

Joe Fagan had 2 years after Paisley, and by the time of 1987 there were very few players left from Paisley's time and none left from Shankly's side. Where do you get that from. He also left us top of the league, albeit with a slightly aging squad, 80% was Souness's fault.

Obviously disappointed with yesterday's result. Why are so many managers more interested in the finishing team than the starting team nowadays - us yesterday, Fergie midweek. I felt if we would have got the equaliser we would have gone on to win it. I'm not 100% convinced it was over the line, but probably was.

Time for a long hard look at lots of things in the club. Big pre-season for my club. Too many  passengers.

Thanks for the comments Naybrains.

Anyway, looking for a game later today now, billy no mates today, 7 regular mates all busy


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## Basher (May 6, 2012)

Watched it in the pub after watching my team win the last game of the season. (Playoffs to follow.....again!!!)
Have to say Carroll looked quite impressive yesterday, shame the dubious goal was not given, looked over to me!
It's about time the refs got harsher with the blatant cheating in the Premier League. Drogba? What a cheating, diving low life he is! If that's what Premier League football is all about, thank God we're vying for the Championship!

UTT!!!


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## Tiger (May 6, 2012)

Liverbirdie I'm sorry but that's nonsense. Grobbelaar, Hansen, Nicol, Whelan, Rush is the backbone around which Dalglish built. Not to mention that Joe Fagan had brought through Gary Gillespie and signed John Wark and Jan Molby. What Dalglish inherited was not only a squad but a team feared across Europe and England. No manager wanted to face Liverpool and every player wanted to play for them. 

I'm impartial and I can see it clear as day. Dalglish hasn't proven himself to be a great Manager, Paisley and Shankly on the other hand did. I think you need to take off the rose tinted glasses.


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## In_The_Rough (May 6, 2012)

Stick with him if you like but the gap is getting wider and wider. Man City,Utd and Chelsea will all spend big in the summer I reckon not sure if LFC can compete especially after all the money Kenny has squanded on poor players. LFC are as far away now from winning the Prem than they have been since the Souness era and it is only going to get worse with Kenny in charge as he is inept in nearly all departments.


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## anotherdouble (May 6, 2012)

Tiger said:



			Dalglish hasn't proven himself to be a great Manager, Paisley and Shankly on the other hand did. I think you need to take off the rose tinted glasses. 

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Every Liverpool supporter is presented with a pair at birth. I have never known any other teams supporters live in the past as much as these lot. When will they admit they are crap and have been for more than a decade.


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## Liverbirdie (May 6, 2012)

Why is it nonsense, you did not mention Fagan? The best Dalglish team had Aldridge, Beardsley, Barnes, Houghton, McMahon, Nicol (was still only just coming through under Fagan), Gillespie, Beglin and Ablett the same. This was not Paisley's side, maybe partially in 1986, but not by 1987.

Yes Shankly and Paisley built the club up,set the style of play, formations etc, but had little or no impact on personnel by then. Matt Busby had a European cup winning side, 6 years later they were in the 2nd division. How does that fit the discussion?

With every passing week I am becoming more disillusioned under Kenny, but dont try and re-write history.


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## jpenno (May 6, 2012)

anotherdouble said:



			Every Liverpool supporter is presented with a pair at birth. I have never known any other teams supporters live in the past as much as these lot. When will they admit they are crap and have been for more than a decade.
		
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How many crap teams have won the Champions league in the last decade? - Or finished second in the premier league - in the last five years?

It is the last two seasons were they have fallen off the pace and in most games this season have outplayed teams but not finished them off. the problem with kenny is his signings have let him and the club down and he has no Plan B.


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## jpenno (May 6, 2012)

Liverbird  - with a bit more notice I would have had a round this afternoon.


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## anotherdouble (May 6, 2012)

jpenno said:



			How many crap teams have won the Champions league in the last decade? - Or finished second in the premier league - in the last five years?

It is the last two seasons were they have fallen off the pace and in most games this season have outplayed teams but not finished them off. the problem with kenny is his signings have let him and the club down and he has no Plan B.
		
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And need I say more. Finishing second in prem. That equates to 1st loser in my book. Cant take away champ league win though, maybe this year for my team. Bring back the king was the cry. Where has it got you other than to re live the past when Kenny was at the top. Spurs were the same when they called for the return of Hoddle. The geordies all wanted Shearer back albiet for 9 games with no success.

I am all for one for remembering the past but dont cling to it. Move on.


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## Liverbirdie (May 6, 2012)

anotherdouble said:



			And need I say more. Finishing second in prem. That equates to 1st loser in my book. Cant take away champ league win though, maybe this year for my team. Bring back the king was the cry. Where has it got you other than to re live the past when Kenny was at the top. Spurs were the same when they called for the return of Hoddle. The geordies all wanted Shearer back albiet for 9 games with no success.

I am all for one for remembering the past but dont cling to it. Move on.
		
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It's easy to say that when you have someone who has invested Â£500 mill, is still willing to put in more over the next few seasons, and will buy you a new ground potentially. You can keep knocking on the door with this backing.

If you dont get champs league this year, Roman can give the new manager Â£200 mill, and you can go again.

Its a bit easier to do with that level of backing.


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## Liverbirdie (May 6, 2012)

jpenno said:



			Liverbird  - with a bit more notice I would have had a round this afternoon.
		
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Asked 10 peeps today, all out with the kids, doing diy etc.

I'll have to change my deoderant........

Wouldn't mind but playing with 3 tomorrow, and it's due to pee it down.

No probs, maybe another time.


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## Tiger (May 6, 2012)

LB I'm not trying to rewrite history, I'm merely stating that Dalglish was at a club that was performing well with a set structure and style of play that had an aura about them and were the club most players wanted to play for. That made Dalglish's signings easier as the transfer market was smaller and he had no real competition for signing them. It also made it easier for his signings to slot into the team. As I've said before it doesn't make him a bad manager but the pedestal some Liverpool fans place him on is undeserved.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 6, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong but I think Liverpool were banned from Europe for most of Dalgliesh's spell.


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## In_The_Rough (May 6, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Correct me if I am wrong but I think Liverpool were banned from Europe for most of Dalgliesh's spell.
		
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Think they were banned from Europe for all of his 1st spell of manager


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## anotherdouble (May 6, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			It's easy to say that when you have someone who has invested Â£500 mill,
		
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You may well be right and then again its easy to say that when you have nobody to really invest and a little green eyed. I could also be presumptious and there is no jelousy. But will all of Liverpools history why have none of these money men stepped in and invested. Again I could be wrong but me thinks it is not the Liverpool way, have never needed it in the past so dont need it now and only real liverpool people can help. If I am right that attitude has hindered rather than helped and you have fallen way behind to a mid table team. It looks like Everton with zero investment or spending power could finisher higher.


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## Tiger (May 6, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Think they were banned from Europe for all of his 1st spell of manager
		
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Yes that's right following Heysel


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## Doon frae Troon (May 6, 2012)

Funny how England football supporters seem to have airbrushed that period from their history.
The national team were banned for a while as well I think.


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## User20205 (May 6, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The national team were banned for a while as well I think.
		
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never banned, it just may have seemed that way in 84 and 94 when we didn't qualify. 

stiil the tartan army must have really misbehaved at some stage, as your lot are always missing from major tournaments :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (May 6, 2012)

Another half hearted performance from our boys yesterday and although the manager has to shoulder the blame for team selection and tactics  the players need to stand up and be counted because there has been too many unacceptable performances this season.

Sacking the manager isn't an option for me but we must improve next season no doubt about it.


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## Slime (May 6, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Sacking the manager isn't an option for me but we must improve next season no doubt about it.
		
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With some of the transfer fees he's paid for some of those players he's bought, Dalglish should be sacked for gross mis-conduct.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 6, 2012)

Although I'm a Fulham fan, this isn't a dig. However if the likes of a small club like ours can be above Liverpool over the course of a whole season it has to set alarm bells ringing surely and for it to register that somewhere it isn't working. Whether that is the quality of the 1st team squad, the management or the way the place is run I don't know but the longer it goes on without something changing then the more mid table anonimity is going to be the Liverpool position. You might get a cup run or two and you might even progress in the Europa League (it is hard work and demanding on any squad so could be a double edged sword) but is that going to be enough for Liverpool fans.

I like Liverpool. I was ther at Anfield for the League Cup nightmare and I gre up watching the likes of Hughes, Clemence, Keegan, followed by Rush, Dalgleish etc and there seemed to be a never ending production line in those days so I'm not having a pop at Liverpool. I'm sad as a football fan to see a club with such tradition struggle if I'm honest


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## Liverbirdie (May 6, 2012)

anotherdouble said:



			You may well be right and then again its easy to say that when you have nobody to really invest and a little green eyed. I could also be presumptious and there is no jelousy. But will all of Liverpools history why have none of these money men stepped in and invested. Again I could be wrong but me thinks it is not the Liverpool way, have never needed it in the past so dont need it now and only real liverpool people can help. If I am right that attitude has hindered rather than helped and you have fallen way behind to a mid table team. It looks like Everton with zero investment or spending power could finisher higher.
		
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To be honest I wouldn't like LFC to get back to the top by a sugar daddy who outspends the rest by a factor of 3-4 to one. Someone who matched City/Chelsea I could maybe accept!! To be fair to Man u and Arsenal they have tried to compete without spending massively (although Man U were genereally always the biggest spenders for years, but not on the same scale).

I think everyone would like to see someone become successful, but on a shoestring, but the days of a Notts Forest winning a div 2, then a div 1, then the European cup are long gone (unless someone invests 800 million in a team).

Lets face it Abramovich nearly picked Spurs, this is when sport becomes a lottery (in more ways than one). Money now rules, in the main, which is making more arl-arses like me becoming more and more disillusioned. Biggest spenders/wage bills normally are in the same league position as where they are in comparison (Everton/Liverpool being one of the anomalies) to others around them.

BTW yes all of Dalglish's first reign was out of Europe.


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## Liverbirdie (May 6, 2012)

Tiger said:



			LB I'm not trying to rewrite history, I'm merely stating that Dalglish was at a club that was performing well with a set structure and style of play that had an aura about them and were the club most players wanted to play for. That made Dalglish's signings easier as the transfer market was smaller and he had no real competition for signing them. It also made it easier for his signings to slot into the team. As I've said before it doesn't make him a bad manager but the pedestal some Liverpool fans place him on is undeserved.
		
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OK, but to say it was mainly down to managers from 12 years before (Shankly) is daft. See my Man U analogy.

I think people are seeing me on here (and other LFC fans) as dedending everything Kenny does, and accepting the current mediocrity. We aren't happy about it believe me, and there is a growing call for change.

We have various breaking points(some have already reached it) and some of my match going mates didn't want Kenny back in the first place, but generally Liverpool match going fans are uncomfortable calling for the managers head, at least at the match. Hodgson aside. I am currently going either way - the main thing is though, that I dont want just anyone in. If Mourinho/Guardiola/Van Gaal or someone of that ilk fancies the job - maybe time to go. If not may give him one more season.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2012)

Slime said:



			With some of the transfer fees he's paid for some of those players he's bought, Dalglish should be sacked for gross mis-conduct.
		
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Damien Commoli was in charge of all of those transfer dealings FACT, hence he's been sacked for this.

Dalglish wanted them players but was in no way involved in how much we paid for them, regardless of how much you spend certain players need time  to settle and I'm prepared to write this season off.

We can all give opinions on whose good enough and who isn't  but we're all football managers and scouts when it comes to giving opinions on players.


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## anotherdouble (May 7, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I think people are seeing me on here (and other LFC fans) as dedending everything Kenny does, and accepting the current mediocrity. We aren't happy about it believe me, and there is a growing call for change.
		
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It is not just current mediocrity though. Since season 92  to season 11 your liverpool are 3rd in NET transfer spending with the obvious 2 above you. That makes liverpool above Man utd and nearly everybody above Arsenal. Over the course of those years has your success measured up to the spending. Roman took Chelsea out of obsecurity and the same is happening to Man City. If Liverpool are not careful they are heading for that area that whilst you were successful Chelsea and Man City were in.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Another half hearted performance from our boys yesterday and although the manager has to shoulder the blame for team selection and tactics  the players need to stand up and be counted because there has been too many unacceptable performances this season.

Sacking the manager isn't an option for me but we must improve next season no doubt about it.
		
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anotherdouble said:



			It is not just current mediocrity though. Since season 92  to season 11 your liverpool are 3rd in NET transfer spending with the obvious 2 above you. That makes liverpool above Man utd and nearly everybody above Arsenal. Over the course of those years has your success measured up to the spending. Roman took Chelsea out of obsecurity and the same is happening to Man City. If Liverpool are not careful they are heading for that area that whilst you were successful Chelsea and Man City were in.
		
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Football was invented before 1992 you know.


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## anotherdouble (May 7, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Football was invented before 1992 you know.
		
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???????


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## chris661 (May 7, 2012)

anotherdouble said:



			???????
		
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Living on past achievements. Happens to all supporters of once great clubs.


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## MegaSteve (May 7, 2012)

English footie needs a 'strong' Liverpool club... 
They are a part of the 'culture' of the game...


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## AuburnWarrior (May 7, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			English footie needs a 'strong' Liverpool club... 
They are a part of the 'culture' of the game...
		
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On that basis, we need a strong Preston North End and a strong Blackpool.  They're part of the culture of the game.

Football doesn't need Liverpool in the same way golf doesn't need Seve or Tiger.  The respective games will continue irrespective.

Teams have their day - some stay around, some drop down the leagues.  Liverpool are in trouble right now and run the risk of becoming a mid league PL team but, hey, I'm a Palace fan, we've got enough problems of our own.......


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2012)

chris661 said:



			Living on past achievements. Happens to all supporters of once great clubs.
		
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Not at all, it just does my head In when modern football fans quote the last 20 yrs of the premier league as if football only began in 1992.


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## Slime (May 7, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			English footie needs a 'strong' Liverpool club... 
They are a part of the 'culture' of the game...
		
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## MegaSteve (May 7, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			On that basis, we need a strong Preston North End and a strong Blackpool.  They're part of the culture of the game.
		
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Not unsympathetic to this opinion... Think though that, at present, Liverpool need a whole lot less repair work than PNE or Blackpool...




			Football doesn't need Liverpool in the same way golf doesn't need Seve or Tiger.
		
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Don't think you can really compare a team sport with an 'individual' sport...

For the record I am not a Liverpool supporter... My team is nearer to home and just about hanging in there to qualify for Europe next season...


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## AuburnWarrior (May 7, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			Not unsympathetic to this opinion... Think though that, at present, Liverpool need a whole lot less repair work than PNE or Blackpool...



Don't think you can really compare a team sport with an 'individual' sport...

For the record I am not a Liverpool supporter... My team is nearer to home and just about hanging in there to qualify for Europe next season...
		
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.  Are you saying that English football needs a Liverpool side that regularly wins things?  Am I correct with that assumption?


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## Liverbirdie (May 7, 2012)

anotherdouble said:



			It is not just current mediocrity though. Since season 92  to season 11 your liverpool are 3rd in NET transfer spending with the obvious 2 above you. That makes liverpool above Man utd and nearly everybody above Arsenal. Over the course of those years has your success measured up to the spending. Roman took Chelsea out of obsecurity and the same is happening to Man City. If Liverpool are not careful they are heading for that area that whilst you were successful Chelsea and Man City were in.
		
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It does not surprise me that LFC are 3rd in it. Man U are not in the top 3, probably because they had a fantastic youth team in the early 90's which came through as one and served them well (even to the current day). This was quite unusual and Fergie blended them in with top end and expensive footballers such as van Nistelroy, Ferdinand, Keane etc (I'll leave Veron out). Fergie got rid of some, as they had served their purpose (P. Neville, Butt, Sharpe) but I can't think of a top end team that got so much service out of a brought- through youth team. Fergie is to be commended on this (God, this is hurting my fingers typing this!!)

Look at Chelsea's brought through players in the meantime (Terry.........is that all?). LFC have brought through Owen, Gerrard, Fowler, Carragher but most of Liverpool's top end signings have been failures (Collymore, Diouf, Heskey,Keane  etc) so couldn't get the mix that Man U did. Dont get me wong Man U have spent tonnes of money staying there, but hats off to them in comparison to Chelsea, City and even at one point Blackburn.

Arsenal have slightly bucked the trend, but since Weger stopped spending to compete, they haven't won anything. Spurs also spend lots of money on the quiet to get into the their lofty position over the last 3-4 years.

It is getting more like your spending power will equal where you finish in the league (LFC's 100 mill, excepted). If we had kept Torres though, we may have spent less and been better off!!


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## GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY (May 7, 2012)

All the time Liverpool rely on Gerrard to carry the team, they will fail. The blokes not getting any younger.


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## Liverbirdie (May 7, 2012)

GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY said:



			All the time Liverpool rely on Gerrard to carry the team, they will fail. The blokes not getting any younger.
		
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Your right, Man U relied on Bryan Robson in their mediocre years. As soon as he only played about 8 full games in a season, they won the league.

God, I hope that happens to us.


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## jpenno (May 7, 2012)

As long as we dont have to rely on Jay Spearing, Stuart Downing and Charlie Adam or we will be relegated!!


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2012)

GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY said:



			All the time Liverpool rely on Gerrard to carry the team, they will fail. The blokes not getting any younger.
		
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Here we go again, 3 seasons ago this rubbish was being spouted.

if you look at Liverpools results prior to gerrard coming back from injury we done ok without him,the results haven't dramatically improved since his return to the side around xmas.


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## Liverbirdie (May 7, 2012)

jpenno said:



			As long as we dont have to rely on Jay Spearing, Stuart Downing and Charlie Adam or we will be relegated!!
		
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You missed anonymous out (Henderson). I have never seen a player who can't wait to get rid of the ball as quick as possible, and never in a forward movement. He takes no responsibility at all.


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## In_The_Rough (May 7, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Here we go again, 3 seasons ago this rubbish was being spouted.

if you look at Liverpools results prior to gerrard coming back from injury we done ok without him,the results haven't dramatically improved
		
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Because he's well past his best that's why. In previous seasons though he has carried the team the year you won the CL being a prime example. Not his biggest fan but as a player for LFC he has been immense.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Because he's well past his best that's why. In previous seasons though he has carried the team the year you won the CL being a prime example. Not his biggest fan but as a player for LFC he has been immense.
		
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To be fair that was 7 years ago when he was arguably the best player in Europe. Since then benitez built a side containing torres mascherano Alonso etc etc and yet this myth was still being peddled then.


Or maybe after being out for nearly 18months and returning with no pre season fitness under his belt and playing catch up on the pitch he's starting to look past his best?


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## In_The_Rough (May 7, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			To be fair that was 7 years ago when he was arguably the best player in Europe. Since then benitez built a side containing torres mascherano Alonso etc etc and yet this myth was still being peddled then.
		
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Hmm not sure about best in Europe think i'd go with Ronaldinho at that point However even as you say when Torres, Masch,Alonso were in the side if the team was in the S$$T Gerrard was the one who got them out of it not any of the others you mention good as they all were.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Hmm not sure about best in Europe think i'd go with Ronaldinho at that point However even as you say when Torres, Masch,Alonso were in the side if the team was in the S$$T Gerrard was the one who got them out of it not any of the others you mention good as they all were.
		
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Isn't that what rooney does or lampard does when their sides are in the mire?? 

That's what world class players do.


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## In_The_Rough (May 7, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Isn't that what rooney does or lampard does when their sides are in the mire?? 

That's what world class players do.
		
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Correct they do but those teams have other players that can do the same. Look at chelsea - Lampard if he does not deliver then Drogba might if he doesn't John Terry will roll the sleeves up, Makelele, Ramires etc the list goes on just dont see that happen at LFC if Gerradrd has a bad game or is banned/injured the team struggles. Man Utd are a bit different at the minute as Rooney is the main man by a mile so in a similar boat, but past UTD teams had Scholes,Giggs,Neville,Keane,Schmeichal all in the same side and all who could step up if needed. The only other one at LFC that has done that throughout is Jamie Carrager but as for the rest it doesn't happen.


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## Liverbirdie (May 7, 2012)

Gerrard isn't at his peak, but he was one of the best midfielders in the world. 

It still does not mean he isn't a great player and most teams would want him in their side. Remember the hat -trick in the derby a few weeks ago. Gary Mcallister at 37, Strachan into his mid thirties, Giggs, Brad Friedel,Drogba (off the top of my head).Just because they aren't at their peak, does not mean they aren't still great/effective players. 

I think it should be Carra's last season though.


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## Stuart_C (May 7, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Correct they do but those teams have other players that can do the same. Look at chelsea - Lampard if he does not deliver then Drogba might if he doesn't John Terry will roll the sleeves up, Makelele, Ramires etc the list goes on just dont see that happen at LFC if Gerradrd has a bad game or is banned/injured the team struggles. Man Utd are a bit different at the minute as Rooney is the main man by a mile so in a similar boat, but past UTD teams had Scholes,Giggs,Neville,Keane,Schmeichal all in the same side and all who could step up if needed. The only other one at LFC that has done that throughout is Jamie Carrager but as for the rest it doesn't happen.
		
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The difference is these players you've quoted except the utd players have cost 30m+.
Utd had 3x Â£ 18m players on there bench Anderson hargreaves carrick, chelsea have had theres in essien Â£35m crespo Â£25m schevchenko Â£ 30m the lists go on. We've never been able to spend Â£25m on a squad player regardless of what the media write. 
When we were challenging under rafa our 1st 11 was a match for any team , we just didn't have the quality in depth compared to chelsea and utd.


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## In_The_Rough (May 7, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			The difference is these players you've quoted except the utd players have cost 30m+.
Utd had 3x Â£ 18m players on there bench Anderson hargreaves carrick, chelsea have had theres in essien Â£35m crespo Â£25m schevchenko Â£ 30m the lists go on. We've never been able to spend Â£25m on a squad player regardless of what the media write. 
When we were challenging under rafa our 1st 11 was a match for any team , we just didn't have the quality in depth compared to chelsea and utd.
		
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Agreed a fair bit does come down to money and strength in depth. But even the players under Rafa you mention Alonso and Masch were fixtures Gerrard was the one who used to dig the team out of a crisis. LFC have spent a lot of money though down the years just not that wisely. In all honesty I would not give Rafa,Roy H or Kenny a few hundred Mil to spend as I would not trust them to spend it properly.


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## Liverbirdie (May 7, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			The difference is these players you've quoted except the utd players have cost 30m+.
Utd had 3x Â£ 18m players on there bench Anderson hargreaves carrick, chelsea have had theres in essien Â£35m crespo Â£25m schevchenko Â£ 30m the lists go on. We've never been able to spend Â£25m on a squad player regardless of what the media write. 
When we were challenging under rafa our 1st 11 was a match for any team , we just didn't have the quality in depth compared to chelsea and utd.
		
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Correct, when LFC have bought an expensive dud, we haven't had 3-4 other 20-30 mill signings, who will step up to the plate. Chelsea, City and to some extent Man u have been able to buy a few of them. This season excepted, whereby all 3-4 15 mill + signings have all been duds, except Suarez.


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## Stuart_C (May 8, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Agreed a fair bit does come down to money and strength in depth. But even the players under Rafa you mention Alonso and Masch were fixtures Gerrard was the one who used to dig the team out of a crisis. LFC have spent a lot of money though down the years just not that wisely. In all honesty I would not give Rafa,Roy H or Kenny a few hundred Mil to spend as I would not trust them to spend it properly.
		
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Ok sack Kenny tomorrow, who do you bring in as manager, how much money do they get and how long do they get??


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## Slime (May 8, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok sack Kenny tomorrow, who do you bring in as manager, how much money do they get and how long do they get??
		
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Steve Kean could be available soon...............................and he shouldn't be too expesive  .


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## Andy808 (May 8, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok sack Kenny tomorrow, who do you bring in as manager, how much money do they get and how long do they get??
		
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As a reds fan I don't think it's a case of who do you bring in it's more a case of who would come.
Kenny has done us proud and can walk away with his head held high winning us another trophy but he, along with the last two managers, does not seem to have a plan B.
We need a manager that the players will respond well to and has the ability to change tactics in a crisis even if that crisis is mid game.
TBH I would rather the new manager looked within for the new talent and not go spending rediculas amounts of money on players that end up not performing as they feel "they have made it".


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## Slime (May 8, 2012)

Andy808 said:



			Kenny has done us proud and can walk away with his head held high winning us another trophy
		
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Really? Do you honestly believe he's done you proud?
The players he's brought in, the way he handled the Suarez affair, their mediocre league position & now they're not even the best team in Liverpool!
Done you proud?
Head held high?
Come on.................wake up & smell the coffee.

*Slime*.


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## In_The_Rough (May 8, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			Ok sack Kenny tomorrow, who do you bring in as manager, how much money do they get and how long do they get??
		
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Plenty of Managers you could bring in and who would probably take the job - Rogers,Lambert,Martinez to name a few.

How much money do the get? No idea ask the Yanks if Kenny has not already spent it all and wasted it.

How long do they get? No idea, how much longer do you want to be a mid table team. Probably give them 2 seasons and take it from there.


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## Stuart_C (May 9, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Plenty of Managers you could bring in and who would probably take the job - Rogers,Lambert,Martinez to name a few.

How much money do the get? No idea ask the Yanks if Kenny has not already spent it all and wasted it.

How long do they get? No idea, how much longer do you want to be a mid table team. Probably give them 2 seasons and take it from there.
		
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This post sums modern football fans up. Pathetic.


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## In_The_Rough (May 9, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			This post sums modern football fans up. Pathetic.
		
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Whys it pathetic most of it is fact might not be what you wanted to hear but still.


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## Stuart_C (May 9, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Whys it pathetic most of it is fact might not be what you wanted to hear but still.
		
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Rogers and Lambert have done well this season but theyve not got the experience to take on the Liverpool job. I like martinez but again  not really experienced enough.

I don't think you can take chances on these managers in the current climate because if there not challenging then they'll be questioned after 6 months. 

Kenny deserves at least another season because if you start sacking managers after 1 poor season then you'll never improve.

The players need to take a good look at themselves and not play well when it suits them.


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## bladeplayer (May 9, 2012)

Stuart_C said:



			if you start sacking managers after 1 poor season then you'll never improve.

The players need to take a good look at themselves and not play well when it suits them.
		
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Never a truer word spoken ... & this is just not about liverpool ..


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