# David Cameron



## chippa1909 (Sep 21, 2015)

So, we've already had a thread about Jeremy Corbyn where he was vilified for not singing a song and being a bit scruffy.

In the interests of fairness, would anyone like to make any comments regarding Mr. Cameron?


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

Kermit has already commented. He wants to know whether he bought her dinner first. 


Stolen shamelessly from twitter.


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## c1973 (Sep 21, 2015)

He shafted a pig, Corbyn would shaft the country.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

c1973 said:



			He shafted a pig, Corbyn would shaft the country.
		
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Hmmmmm. It comes to something when those 2 are the choices we have to run the country.


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## Imurg (Sep 21, 2015)

Gives a whole new meaning to "pulled pork".........:mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)




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## c1973 (Sep 21, 2015)

Ach,any port in a storm Dave, any port.......we've all been there.


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## Oxfordcomma (Sep 21, 2015)

Dave should be worried - not because anyone really cares, but because everyone thinks "hmm, yup, sounds believable"


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## adam6177 (Sep 21, 2015)

I hate him and I hate his party. I will never ever ever vote for them.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

In the interests of fairness, this book appears to have been written by someone who tried to buy his way into a top position in government. And failed.


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## chippa1909 (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			In the interests of fairness, this book appears to have been written by someone who tried to buy his way into a top position in government. And failed.
		
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If it was purely vindictive, surely these revelations would have surfaced before the election.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			If it was purely vindictive, surely these revelations would have surfaced before the election.
		
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I think it's probably vindictive, but by a staunch conservative. More of an attack on Cameron personally than on the party itself.


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## Beezerk (Sep 21, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			If it was purely vindictive, surely these revelations would have surfaced before the election.
		
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Wasn't there an agreement not to publish anything before the election? I didn't catch all of it but I'm sure it was mentioned on R5L this afternoon.


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## The Green Fairy (Sep 21, 2015)

Osborne is waiting in the wings - and will probably be the best leader this country has had since Thatcher.  :thup:


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## SteveJay (Sep 21, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			Osborne is waiting in the wings - and will probably be the best leader this country has had since Thatcher.  :thup:
		
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Wait until the choice is between Corbyn or mad Boris, then it will be bad!!! 
Osborne as PM......God help us &#128518;


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## Oxfordcomma (Sep 21, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			Osborne is waiting in the wings - and will probably be the best leader this country has had since Thatcher.  :thup:
		
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Really? I can't stand the guy, come across just as unpleasantly oily as Leon Brittan was back in the day. And he seems sooooo political, as far as I can tell every single thing that Osborne has done since the election has been with one thing in mind and one thing only - making sure that George Osborne is the next PM.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			Osborne is waiting in the wings - and will probably be the best leader this country has had since Thatcher.  :thup:
		
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Yup he came to our pit the year before it closed, full of grade one Bull. Went underground but asked not to come into contact with any of the Colliers. half the management team were that close to him you could see there feet sticking out of his butt.

re comparisons to Thatcher, well you either loved her or hated her. me I am In 
The camp that if she was on fire, the fire brigade on arrival would be asking why my bladder is still full.

Re Cameron, oh dear another one that's not my cuppa tea.


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## Oxfordcomma (Sep 21, 2015)

This just popped up on FB - not really SFW, but Cassetteboy does do good stuff.

[video=youtube;FBpQJ98rR4o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1&amp;v=FBpQJ98rR4o[/video]


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## The Green Fairy (Sep 21, 2015)

SteveJay said:



			Osborne as PM......God help us &#62982;
		
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I'd put good money on it?

P.S. I did really well in the Thatcher years.  Some did - some din'   :smirk:


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## srixon 1 (Sep 21, 2015)

So nobody on the forum is hiding skeletons in their cupboards from their late teens or early twenties?


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## Oxfordcomma (Sep 21, 2015)

I don't think anyone actually thinks better or worse of him for this do they? Everyone has a handful of events from that period in their life that they would rather weren't mentioned.

That doesn't stop this being very, very funny though. :lol:


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## JohnnyDee (Sep 21, 2015)

It would appear that old Dave has a shady past when he used to be an anonymous silly arse Tory Boy *oik then.

Sow what?

*Oops, typo there, of course that should read *oink.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 21, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			Osborne is waiting in the wings - and will probably be the best leader this country has had since Thatcher.  :thup:
		
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god help us, and especially the poorer and disadvantaged, if he does become PM


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## MegaSteve (Sep 21, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			P.S. I did really well in the Thatcher years.  Some did - some din'   :smirk:
		
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In the plod?

Some good OT to be had in them days apparently...


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## MegaSteve (Sep 21, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			god help us, and especially the poorer and disadvantaged, if he does become PM
		
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Could be worse... IDS  ...


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## Tashyboy (Sep 22, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			In the plod?

Some good OT to be had in them days apparently...
		
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Eeee when I think of all the plods who I made rich during the miners strike. Ah well every cloud. fairy you owe me a pint next time am down under.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 22, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			P.S. I did really well in the Thatcher years.  Some did - some din'   :smirk:
		
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.....and of course, that's what it's all about....me, me, me. Millions didn't. I too am in the camp that says they only cremated her to stop people dancing on her grave. Truly awful human being.


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## Paul77 (Sep 22, 2015)

More than likely #Piggate is a cover up for a story they didn't want too much heat on. Half the Tory press office laughed it off on Twitter yesterday to my utter shock. 

"Who didn't do that sort of thing in Uni?" was one of the comments. Sorry but there was a lot more cool things to do in Uni in my day than make a dead pig eat a pork sword.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 22, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			.....and of course, that's what it's all about....me, me, me. Millions didn't. I too am in the camp that says they only cremated her to stop people dancing on her grave. Truly awful human being.
		
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Unfortunately I think many are even more 'me, me, me' today.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2015)

srixon 1 said:



			So nobody on the forum is hiding skeletons in their cupboards from their late teens or early twenties?
		
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Not pig related. Not animal related in any way in fact.


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## The Green Fairy (Sep 22, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			.....*and of course, that's what it's all about....me, me, me*. Millions didn't. I too am in the camp that says they only cremated her to stop people dancing on her grave. Truly awful human being.
		
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Hey, where does it say me, me,  me.   I made a point, which was true for a lot of people at that time. There will always be those that do well, depending who is in government.
For my part, I have never been able to gain much when the 'Something for Nothing Parties' have been in power - but have always benefitted from those that have rewarded hard work and enterprise.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 22, 2015)

Though in truth for me the problem right across UK society today - from 'top' to 'bottom' is that of entitlement.  

From those who feel entitled to their benefits, to those who feel entitled to keep all of the money they earn; entitled to having the NHS meet all their needs as and when it suits themselves; entitled to holidays (and in term time etc), entitled to the latest tech; entitled to flexibility to suit themselves in their working arrangements; entitled to keep the way they have always done things; entitled to keep the fields around them unspoilt  - and so it goes on - the list is endless.  

And it is these feelings of personal entitlement, and the anger that goes with their not being met, that is for me at the heart of so much that is dragging us down today and shaping the nature and attitudes of UK society - to it's absolute and total detriment

And Cameron, his cronies and their like, exemplify for me the entitled at (where they see) the top of society.


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## Ethan (Sep 22, 2015)

I have no idea if he was over familiar with Porky, and at one level, I don't really care.

The issue is that it has reminded people of that Bullingdon Club (Riot Club) image and the idea of an over entitled rich professional politician acting as if the rules don't apply to them. Which is not hard to believe and seems to be precisely how he has applied his policies. "We are all in it together", really means "YOU are all it together".

Same applies to Gideon (George) Osborne and Boris Johnston.  

How average working class people vote for them baffles me. Talk about voting against one's own interest.

Ashcroft probably is a bitter backstabber, but some of what he says is probably true. The non dom issue may one that bites more than the deceased pig.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 22, 2015)

srixon 1 said:



			So nobody on the forum is hiding skeletons in their cupboards from their late teens or early twenties?
		
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I've slept with some rotters but I've never done what he's done.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 22, 2015)

Ethan said:



			I have no idea if he was over familiar with Porky, and at one level, I don't really care.

The issue is that it has reminded people of that Bullingdon Club (Riot Club) image and the idea of an over entitled rich professional politician acting as if the rules don't apply to them. Which is not hard to believe and seems to be precisely how he has applied his policies. "We are all in it together", really means "YOU are all it together".

Same applies to Gideon (George) Osborne and Boris Johnston.  

How average working class people vote for them baffles me. Talk about voting against one's own interest.

Ashcroft probably is a bitter backstabber, but some of what he says is probably true. The non dom issue may one that bites more than the deceased pig.
		
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Aye - we are all in the same swimming pool together - with the better off having grabbed the shallow end and able to swim - leaving the deep end to the less well off - many of whom can't swim.


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## Rooter (Sep 22, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Aye - we are all in the same swimming pool together - with the better off having grabbed the shallow end and able to swim - leaving the deep end to the less well off - many of whom can't swim.
		
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And a fair few of the people in the swimming pool have had a pee spoiling the experience for the rest of us..


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## c1973 (Sep 22, 2015)

Rooter said:



			And a fair few of the people in the swimming pool have had a pee spoiling the experience for the rest of us..
		
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Hehe.  Me likey. :thup:


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## Tashyboy (Sep 22, 2015)

Stuart_C said:



			I've slept with some rotters but I've never done what he's done.
		
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In all honesty Stu, you need to be backing that statement up with some names so we can believe you?

Sticky Vicky, was she one. &#128563;&#128513;


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## chippa1909 (Sep 22, 2015)

srixon 1 said:



			So nobody on the forum is hiding skeletons in their cupboards from their late teens or early twenties?
		
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OMG! I thought a pigs head was bad, but a SKELETON!!! 

Was it not a wee bit dry? :mmm:


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 22, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			OMG! I thought a pigs head was bad, but a SKELETON!!! 

Was it not a wee bit dry? :mmm:
		
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Not if you use plenty of baby oil.

Ahem, I've heard. I mean a friend told me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

Well there is an urban legend of a guy and a dog within the RAF - they ended up calling a whole trade after this urban legend.


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## c1973 (Sep 22, 2015)

The only thing that bothers me in all of this is that Cameron appears to have changed his opinion on drug use/laws/treatment (going by what I've read, which could be made up nonsense tbf), from open to debate and reasonably liberal, to closed to debate and reasonably draconian. Pity. An open discussion with the opportunity to change tact and redistribute finances to better effect might have been a good thing.


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## Backache (Sep 23, 2015)

Ethan said:



			. The non dom issue may one that bites more than the deceased pig.
		
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I wasn't aware that he may have been injured whilst having a Lewinsky discussion with a non dom.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2015)

Looks like he is trying to move the Tories to the left.

Do you think he is worried about the rise of Corbyn?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

DC? - So Supremely Supercilious


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## bluewolf (Oct 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Looks like he is trying to move the Tories to the left.

Do you think he is worried about the rise of Corbyn?
		
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His attack on Corbyn this week was a strange policy... If there's one thing the British Public don't like, it's a bully.. If Jezza and the Labour PR machine play this right, they can begin to portray DC as the playground bully and start to turn opinion against him.. DC  would be better off showing the due respect the leader of the Opposition deserves..


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			His attack on Corbyn this week was a strange policy... If there's one thing the British Public don't like, it's a bully.. If Jezza and the Labour PR machine play this right, they can begin to portray DC as the playground bully and start to turn opinion against him.. DC  would be better off showing the due respect the leader of the Opposition deserves..
		
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His words on Corbyn were ludicrous and rather ridiculous 

_"We cannot let that man inflict his security-threatening, terrorist-sympathising, Britain-hating ideology on the country we love"_

Really?

No matter - in one statement he presses every xenophobic and neurotic right of centre button.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			His words on Corbyn were ludicrous and rather ridiculous 

_"We cannot let that man inflict his security-threatening, terrorist-sympathising, Britain-hating ideology on the country we love"_

Really?

No matter - in one statement he presses every xenophobic and neurotic right of centre button.
		
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Is he wrong in what he said though ?


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## bluewolf (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is he wrong in what he said though ?
		
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Yes... Everything..


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## jp5 (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is he wrong in what he said though ?
		
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Yes he is wrong. How exactly is Corbyn Britain-hating?

Cameron doesn't need to resort to fear-mongering, but does it anyway. It must be in his DNA.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is he wrong in what he said though ?
		
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If you go back through the years you will probably be able to find words or actions that can support to some degree each part of the statement.  But the statement is concocted simply to strike a level of fear into hearts that is not justified by the reality of what would come to pass from a Corbyn government.  Pretty base scaremongering.


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## Dellboy (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is he wrong in what he said though ?
		
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Nope I think he's spot on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Yes... Everything..
		
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So he doesn't what to threaten our security by removing nuclear weapons and reducing the armed services nor has he ever sympathised with terrorists ? 

Britian hating is prob the one statement is hard to justify but two parts of it looking through his history seem to be spot on


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If you go back through the years you will probably be able to find words or actions that can support to some degree each part of the statement.  But the statement is concocted simply to strike a level of fear into hearts that is not justified by the reality of what would come to pass from a Corbyn government.  Pretty base scaremongering.
		
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But the statement isn't false then - whilst it maybe not what you would like to hear from a PM it's not an untrue statement 

Corbyns views and past are very much well known


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So he doesn't what to threaten our security by removing nuclear weapons and reducing the armed services nor has he ever sympathised with terrorists ? 

Britian hating is prob the one statement is hard to justify but two parts of it looking through his history seem to be spot on
		
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But he included the third part - so in JFKs rule of three - the first two building to the climactic third.  The third is really just unjustifiable tosh but it's the point Cameron wanted to make and leave in minds.


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## chrisd (Oct 8, 2015)

DC was spot on!


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## jp5 (Oct 8, 2015)

chrisd said:



			DC was spot on!
		
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How so?


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2015)

In all I thought it was a very dated and out of touch speech.
Aimed at the blue rinse and home counties supporters.

Did he mention the thousands of starving children in the UK under his watch, or did I miss that bit?


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## FairwayDodger (Oct 8, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			But he included the third part - so in JFKs rule of three - the first two building to the climactic third.  The third is really just unjustifiable tosh but it's the point Cameron wanted to make and leave in minds.
		
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The first one is a matter of opinion, the second twisting the truth and the third completely ludicrous.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			The first one is a matter of opinion, the second twisting the truth and the third completely ludicrous.
		
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Indeed :thup:


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## chrisd (Oct 8, 2015)

jp5 said:



			How so?
		
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Because I believe what he says !


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Because I believe what he says !
		
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And I don't - so stalemate there


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## Oxfordcomma (Oct 8, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Because I believe what he says !
		
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Chris, really? You truly believe that Corbyn has a Britain-hating ideology? Corbyn is a pacifist, and that has led him to talk to some strange people in the past, but to stretch that out to "Britain-hating" is pretty ridiculous from Cameron.


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## jp5 (Oct 8, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Because I believe what he says !
		
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Oh dear... you'll believe anything he says?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

so for instance - on housing he is going to move us from 'generation rent to generation buy'.  What the heck does that really mean?  What generation?  The next?  So is he saying the next generation won't have to rent they'll all be able to buy?  It's rubbish, but it sounds meaningful.  How can you believe something that doesn't make any sense?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2015)

DC is a PR man, all soundbites and no substance. When he finishes as PM what legacy will he leave? What policies will you look back at and say they were his and they made a difference. Remember the Big Idea anyone? Soulless PM with no backbone. I am not anti Conservative but he has been poor. Luckily for him Labour during this period have been worse.


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## User62651 (Oct 8, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			DC is a PR man, all soundbites and no substance. When he finishes as PM what legacy will he leave? What policies will you look back at and say they were his and they made a difference. Remember the Big Idea anyone? Soulless PM with no backbone. I am not anti Conservative but he has been poor. Luckily for him Labour during this period have been worse.
		
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Very well put imo, seemed like a decent prospect when he pitched for leadership all those years ago but deals in short-termism for his and his party's benefit only. Very uninspiring as a leader.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2015)

Cameron's legacy is that he will be known has the 'Food Bank Prime Minister'.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Cameron's legacy is that he will be known has the 'Food Bank Prime Minister'.
		
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Known by who exactly ? Not once have I heard or read him called that


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Known by who exactly ? Not once have I heard or read him called that
		
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I have now


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## bluewolf (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Known by who exactly ? Not once have I heard or read him called that
		
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You do understand that the statement was written using Past tense?  "He will be known as", not "he is known as".


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## User62651 (Oct 8, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			You do understand that the statement was written using Past tense?  "He will be known as", not "he is known as".
		
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Future tense surely - 'he will be' rather than past 'he was' or present 'he is' ???


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## chrisd (Oct 8, 2015)

I wrote that I believe him simply to save loads of arguments like happen in the playground. No Corbyn isn't a Britain hater but he wants to change it to something I don't want. There are view on here that I don't share but, unlike Phil, I can't be arsed to tit for tat about what I believe as we'll never agree and none of ipus will move camps


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## Foxholer (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So he doesn't what to threaten our security by removing nuclear weapons and reducing the armed services nor has he ever sympathised with terrorists ? 

Britian hating is prob the one statement is hard to justify but two parts of it looking through his history seem to be spot on
		
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How *exactly* is UK's security threatened by the removal of Nuclear weapons? Details please, not waffle about perception! 

I think Lord Tyrion phrased it perfectly though...DC is a PR - and that's what politics is about! I don't think DC will go down as a great PM. But certainly a successful one, if only because of the timing of the Banking Crash and the poor (PR) quality of the Labour alternatives! Tony Blair, on the other hand, was/is all PR/Self Promotion but decidedly weak in actual leadership and morality imo!


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## bluewolf (Oct 8, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			Future tense surely - 'he will be' rather than past 'he was' or present 'he is' ???
		
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Past tense as in referring to how DC will be known in the future, for his actions in the past.   All depends on the reference point I suppose. At the very least, we can agree that it's not the present tense?


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## Ethan (Oct 8, 2015)

Cameron and his spiritual heir, Blair, are responsible for making the world considerably more dangerous than it was, with ill considered and doomed forays into Iraq and Afghanistan, and Cameron now seems set to repeat the process with more direct action in Syria. 

On nuclear weapons, there are two separate questions. The first is whether MAD works. In the Cold War days, the likely enemy may have been fearful of retaliation, but that is less likely with terrorist groups and rogue states. Secondly, is Trident even an effective weapon? Many senior military figures and former SoSD (including Tory) don't think so. 

The idea that declaring he wouldn't press the button will embolden other countries to get nukes is laughable. Precisely the opposite argument can be made, that other states want nukes because US, UK and most importantly, Israel, have them. Although Israel are not in the nuclear anti-proliferation treaty, so are a sort of rogue state themselves.

Every nation in the world, apart from US, Russia, China, North Korea, UK, France, India, Pakistan and Israel manage without nukes. It is ridiculous to think the UK could not do the same. Not having nukes would probably lose the UK their seat at the UN Security Council, though, which would be a demotion in world standing.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2015)

Trident is the WW1 equivalent of the Cavalry.
As Ethan states it is only used as a very expensive leaders status symbol.  

If nukes keep the world safe the UN should allow every country to have one.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As Ethan states it is only used as a very expensive leaders status symbol.
		
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:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Trident is the WW1 equivalent of the Cavalry.
As Ethan states it is only used as a very expensive leaders status symbol.
		
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Hence why there will be a Trident replacement arriving and helping keep thousands of jobs safe whilst also creating a few more in Scotland - something I sure you're very much in favour off ( saves them having to go to food banks )




			If nukes keep the world safe the UN should allow every country to have one.
		
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I'm pretty sure you are clever enough to understand why not every country is allowed to have nuclear weapons.


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## c1973 (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is he wrong in what he said though ?
		
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Imo,  First point, No he's not wrong. Second point, No he's not wrong. Third point, not sure tbh. 


However, if you ask me having a pop at Mr Bean is more akin to savaging a dead sheep than being savaged by a dead sheep.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hence why there will be a Trident replacement arriving and helping keep thousands of jobs safe whilst also creating a few more in Scotland - something I sure you're very much in favour off ( saves them having to go to food banks )



I'm pretty sure you are clever enough to understand why not every country is allowed to have nuclear weapons.
		
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I would be quite happy to see the nuclear bases/weapons [and associated jobs] removed outwith Scotland.
I am unsure if there are any nuclear bases left in Wales or England but, for me, they are welcome to them and the jobs.

Unsure as to what in your mind brings food banks into the equation, please expand.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I would be quite happy to see the nuclear bases/weapons [and associated jobs] removed outwith Scotland.
I am unsure if there are any nuclear bases left in Wales or England but, for me, they are welcome to them and the jobs.

Unsure as to what in your mind brings food banks into the equation, please expand.
		
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So your quite happy to consign thousands of your fellow Scots to the dole when you remove Trident then ? 

And if you consign a large number to the dole then the need for food banks possibly increases


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## jp5 (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So your quite happy to consign thousands of your fellow Scots to the dole when you remove Trident then ? 

And if you consign a large number to the dole then the need for food banks possibly increases
		
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Not the best reason to continue to produce WMDs though is it? Just to keep people employed. 

Pretty sure the Â£100 billion could help people find other employment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Not the best reason to continue to produce WMDs though is it? Just to keep people employed. 

Pretty sure the Â£100 billion could help people find other employment.
		
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Who said it was the best reason to keep nuclear weapons ?


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## jp5 (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who said it was the best reason to keep nuclear weapons ?
		
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It's a turn of phrase.... okay, not a valid reason.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

jp5 said:



			It's a turn of phrase.... okay, not a valid reason.
		
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The country having a nuclear deterrent is something I believe we should have - that debate will go on forever

some people in Scotland would like them "moved" because they don't want them there without looking at the damage it will cause to people's lives in the area


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			some people in Scotland would like them "moved" because they don't want them there without looking at the damage it will cause to people's lives in the area
		
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Depends on your definition of 'some people in Scotland'.
The 'jobs lost' issue has been strongly debated up here.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Depends on your definition of 'some people in Scotland'.
The 'jobs lost' issue has been strongly debated up here.
		
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And the answer they came up with was to have a "Scottish Defence Navy" there during the independence talk

Move trident and there is no need for Faslane and thousands lose there jobs - great thinking for your fellow countrymen


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 8, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Not the best reason to continue to produce WMDs though is it? Just to keep people employed. 

Pretty sure the Â£100 billion could help people find other employment.
		
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Might buy the odd school or hospital!


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## c1973 (Oct 8, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Might buy the odd school or hospital!
		
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Up here they'd just make an arse of running them, fudge the figures to disguise their incompetence and laugh at the electorates inability to see beyond the propaganda and hold them to account.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Up here they'd just make an arse of running them, fudge the figures to disguise their incompetence and laugh at the electorates inability to see beyond the propaganda and hold them to account.
		
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Think that's a country wide issue though. Incompetence has no boundaries. Think of the healthcare provision in a utopian Britain that would give. Get it back out into local communities. Beds not bombs!


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## c1973 (Oct 8, 2015)

The UK needs a deterrent and until there is multi lateral disarmament then I'm quite comfortable having them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The UK needs a deterrent and until there is multi lateral disarmament then I'm quite comfortable having them.
		
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My thinking exactly :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The UK needs a deterrent and until there is multi lateral disarmament then I'm quite comfortable having them.
		
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But trident is ancient. A deterrent perhaps but when will we get anything better and does the cost really justify the obscene outlay


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## Foxholer (Oct 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The UK needs a deterrent and until there is multi lateral disarmament then I'm quite comfortable having them.
		
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Deterrent to who? And from what?

As I asked LpP some time ago - and there has been no reply....

Please explain exactly why having Nuclear weapons (that actually belong to the US) provides the UK with any additionl security over them being not Nuclear tipped! Details please, not merely the aspirational willy-waving of being part of the MAD club!

Does UK's permnent seat on the UN Security Council depend on nuclear capability?

Clearly (internationlly) non-proliferation is a good thing! But that hasn't been particularly effective either - though that is no reason to abandon the policy! 

But as a defensive tool, Nuclear weapons are totally useless - and a complete waste of money! 

And no-one has specified what percentage of Faslane would go if the Nuclear capability was eliminated. I'm pretty sure that the strategy involved would be amended, but not totally eliminated - otherwise, without ever having used them, the entire cost has been a complete waste of money hasn't it!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Hence why there will be a Trident replacement arriving and helping keep thousands of jobs safe *whilst also creating a few more in Scotland - something I sure you're very much in favour off ( saves them having to go to food banks )



I'm pretty sure you are clever enough to understand why not every country is allowed to have nuclear weapons.
		
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The whole Trident = Jobs thing should really not be part of the decision making.  Trident renewal should be and is much more than about jobs.  In the scheme of things jobs are a side concern.


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## c1973 (Oct 9, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Deterrent to who? And from what?

As I asked LpP some time ago - and there has been no reply....

Please explain exactly why having Nuclear weapons (that actually belong to the US) provides the UK with any additionl security over them being not Nuclear tipped! Details please, not merely the aspirational willy-waving of being part of the MAD club!

Does UK's permnent seat on the UN Security Council depend on nuclear capability?

Clearly (internationlly) non-proliferation is a good thing! But that hasn't been particularly effective either - though that is no reason to abandon the policy! 

But as a defensive tool, Nuclear weapons are totally useless - and a complete waste of money! 

And no-one has specified what percentage of Faslane would go if the Nuclear capability was eliminated. I'm pretty sure that the strategy involved would be amended, but not totally eliminated - otherwise, without ever having used them, the entire cost has been a complete waste of money hasn't it!
		
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Imo. <<<< that's the key btw.  Russia would appear to be the logical answer. Back in the day the Warsaw Pact were a worry, unfortunately an arms race ensued and we are now where we are. Unilateral disarmament is not a road I wish the UK to go down.

I'm quite content that our big guns are just as big as other nations big guns, that's my opinion and I don't feel I need to explain exactly, in detail, why. I believe it to be self evident.


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## delc (Oct 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Imo. <<<< that's the key btw.  Russia would appear to be the logical answer. Back in the day the Warsaw Pact were a worry, unfortunately an arms race ensued and we are now where we are. Unilateral disarmament is not a road I wish the UK to go down.

I'm quite content that our big guns are just as big as other nations big guns, that's my opinion and I don't feel I need to explain exactly, in detail, why. I believe it to be self evident.
		
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As we don't seem to have much of an Army, Navy, or Air Force any more, Nuclear weapons are our only choice! BTW, the Air Training Corps now has more aircraft than the RAF, but most of them are currently grounded due to an administrative cock up!  You couldn't invent this if you tried!


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## Foxholer (Oct 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Imo. <<<< that's the key btw.  Russia would appear to be the logical answer. Back in the day the Warsaw Pact were a worry, unfortunately an arms race ensued and we are now where we are. Unilateral disarmament is not a road I wish the UK to go down.

I'm quite content that our big guns are just as big as other nations big guns, that's my opinion and I don't feel I need to explain exactly, in detail, why. I believe it to be self evident.
		
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I'm certainly not suggesting unilateral disarmament - though de-nukeing wouldn't be such a bad move imo. You haven't actually answered my question though! What benefit does having nuclear weapons have for the defence of UK?!

I still don't believe that possessing nuclear weapons helps in any way the DEFENCE of UK. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) perhaps, but that is certainly not a 'defensive' strategy! And remember that because UK doesn't own the warheads, it has to get permission from US to use them anyway! So why not let the US use its own delivery systems or MAD!

And no-one that I know of has quantified just how many jobs would be lost if the warheads were conventional as opposed to nuclear!

Now, I'm not saying that continuing to be a 'nuclear power' isn't something worthwhile - though I suspect it isn't! I'm merely questioning its actual value - and the cost of upgrading Trident in these times of austerity!


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## delc (Oct 9, 2015)

Does it matter if I am killed by a nuclear or conventional warhead?  I still end up dead!  :mmm:


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 9, 2015)

delc said:



			Does it matter if I am killed by a nuclear or conventional warhead?  I still end up dead!  :mmm:
		
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Maybe you should hope for one hitting each of the greens on your course. Would certainly make the holes bigger for you. ;-)


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 9, 2015)

delc said:



			As we don't seem to have much of an Army, Navy, or Air Force any more, Nuclear weapons are our only choice! BTW, the Air Training Corps now has more aircraft than the RAF, but most of them are currently grounded due to an administrative cock up!  You couldn't invent this if you tried!  

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but.....you are quite happy for these incompetents to be in charge of weapons that will destroy the world, you couldn't invent this as well.


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## Foxholer (Oct 9, 2015)

delc said:



			Does it matter if I am killed by a nuclear or conventional warhead?  I still end up dead!  :mmm:
		
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Well, the idea of 'defence' is to avoid either happening! 

Though there might be a few folk that some could happily target! 

Now! Time to get back to the rest of David Cameron's personality! .... Oh dear, that didn't take long, did it!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 9, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Well, the idea of 'defence' is to avoid either happening! 

Though there might be a few folk that some could happily target! 

Now! T*ime to get back to the rest of David Cameron's personality! *.... Oh dear, that didn't take long, did it!
		
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Easy - Mr Supercilious


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 9, 2015)

I've just twigged why his face goes red when he tells porkies.


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## Ethan (Oct 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm pretty sure you are clever enough to understand why not every country is allowed to have nuclear weapons.
		
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Do you think Iran would be less concerned to get nukes if Israel didn't have theirs?


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## Ethan (Oct 10, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The whole Trident = Jobs thing should really not be part of the decision making.  Trident renewal should be and is much more than about jobs.  In the scheme of things jobs are a side concern.
		
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The jobs and company profits thing is a huge issue in the US. On his departure, Eisenhower, 2 term Republican President and former WW2 General, warned about the military industrial complex. 

This is much more of a problem now, and the US has a huge over equipped military and lots of dependant jobs in key electoral districts, so the Congress continually funds programmes that the military don't want or that don't work.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 11, 2015)

Finger on the button talk is daft anyway as the UK has to get permission from head office in Washington before firing off any USA owned trident nuclear weapons.


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## Ethan (Oct 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Finger on the button talk is daft anyway as the UK has to get permission from head office in Washington before firing off any USA owned trident nuclear weapons.
		
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Are you saying that the British "Independent" deterrent isn't really independent at all and that in nuclear terms the UK is just a European outpost of the land of the free and the home of the brave?


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## Foxholer (Oct 11, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So he doesn't what to threaten our security by removing nuclear weapons and reducing the armed services nor has he ever sympathised with terrorists ?
		
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You STILL haven't answered my question about how about possession of (US) nuclear weapons contributes in any way to the security of UK from a defensive perspective!


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 11, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Are you saying that the British "Independent" deterrent isn't really independent at all and that in nuclear terms the UK is just a European outpost of the land of the free and the home of the brave?
		
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Uh Ha........could be fun when Donald becomes president.


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## Ethan (Oct 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Uh Ha........could be fun when Donald becomes president.
		
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No chance of that - the US would turn their nukes on themselves before letting that happen.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 13, 2015)

Even if the UKs nuclear deterrent was independent, we'd NEVER use it independently - and we'd never HAVE to use it independently.  The only reason we have one is that Roosevelt shut us out of nuclear weapon development after the war and back then we felt we had to continue to be involved in the development of a capability - so we did our own.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 14, 2015)

At today's PMQ Cameron saying Â£150,000 starter homes to be build in London. Aye right.
Getting redder in the face again. [telling porkies]

Totally failed to answer any of Corbyns question's. So far.


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## ger147 (Oct 14, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			At today's PMQ Cameron saying Â£150,000 starter homes to be build in London. Aye right.
Getting redder in the face again. [telling porkies]

Totally failed to answer any of Corbyns question's. So far.
		
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PM's never answer questions so nothing different about Dave from any of his predecessors.

As Sir Humphrey put it "Opposition is about asking questions, Government is about not answering them."


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## Tashyboy (Nov 2, 2018)

Always think it is good to resurface old threads. ðŸ˜

According to reliable sources ( The Sun) it seems Mr Cameron is now ready for a place on the cabinet again.  He has chucked the country on the Brexit melting pot, disappeared for a few years making a few million along the way. The Brexit deal is just about done and Dave decides he is ready for a return. Cheers Davo, we will call you.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2018)

I can't tell you how much I laughed when I heard this story. Utterly delusional if he thinks he has any credibility left in this country. Stick to the lecture circuit Dave.


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## User62651 (Nov 2, 2018)

He's an Eton/Oxford/Bullingdon upper class landed gentry Toryboy. They'd therefore take him back in a second, give him a safe seat at next GE gladly I suspect. Not up to us.
I dont mind him actually, thought he made a half decent job of PM, better than May and Brown anyway. Brexit was his undoing but no reason he can't come back, particularly if Brexit works out ok. Do ex -Prime Ministers ever come back into Commons, is there a precedent for that?
They normally disappear or head off to The Lords for a snooze.
What if TonyB comes back too!


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## Tashyboy (Nov 2, 2018)

Was just thinking is Blair and Cameron the same person. I mean you never see phitos of them together. 
That aside if he could of done a job. He could of, should of stuck around.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2018)

Can anyone list a lasting achievement by Dave? Just one will do. There were lots of badly thought out ideas that were quickly dropped after the media crucified them but I can not remember one decent policy sticking. The ultimate soundbite PM.


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## Beezerk (Nov 2, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I can't tell you how much I laughed when I heard this story. Utterly delusional if he thinks he has any credibility left in this country. Stick to the lecture circuit Dave.
		
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Do you think any of them care about credibility and what the people think of them?


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 2, 2018)

No they don't but someone needs to point it out to them.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 2, 2018)

Dont see him coming back TBH, especiially if they make BoJo the next Tory leader


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 2, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Dont see him coming back TBH, especiially if they make BoJo the next Tory leader
		
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Would that be the same self-serving Johnson who recently accepted a Â£14,000 all expenses paid 3day visit to Saudi Arabia paid by the Saudi government?

Oh yes - just the guy we need.

But Cameron - you must be joking after the mess his stupidity has sent our country spiralling uncontrolled into.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 2, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Can anyone list a lasting achievement by Dave? Just one will do. There were lots of badly thought out ideas that were quickly dropped after the media crucified them but I can not remember one decent policy sticking. The ultimate soundbite PM.
		
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Lasting legacy in Scotland is that of a two faced liar.
His 2014 'Vow' to persuade Scotland to remain in UK lasted about 12 hours.
Mind you, on the bright side, it would be another big boost to SNP membership if he was to return.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Would that be the same self-serving Johnson who recently accepted a Â£14,000 all expenses paid 3day visit to Saudi Arabia paid by the Saudi government?

Oh yes - just the guy we need.

But Cameron - you must be joking after the mess his stupidity has sent our country spiralling uncontrolled into.
		
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The Tory party will vote in as their leader who they think will win them their re-election. All will be forgotten when a tax cut is offered.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 2, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Lasting legacy in Scotland is that of a two faced liar.
His 2014 'Vow' to persuade Scotland to remain in UK lasted about 12 hours.
Mind you, on the bright side, it would be another big boost to SNP membership if he was to return.
		
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Is that akin to the "once in a lifetime referendum vote" as stated by the SNP?


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## MegaSteve (Nov 2, 2018)

Think any of the blue rinse constituencies would be an easy ride for him back into Westminster... Reckon next door Uxbridge would have him over BoJo...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 2, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			The Tory party will vote in as their leader who they think will win them their re-election. All will be forgotten when a tax cut is offered.
		
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You mean the tax cut that has already been promised (on a wing and a prayer) by Hammond to come into place from April next year - post Brexit and post any No Deal Emergency Budget; the one that benefits most those who are better off - whilst continuing austerity measures hit hardest those who are least well off.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You mean the tax cut that has already been promised (on a wing and a prayer) by Hammond to come into place from April next year - post Brexit and post any No Deal Emergency Budget; the one that benefits most those who are better off - whilst continuing austerity measures hit hardest those who are least well off.
		
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Obviously......


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 2, 2018)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Obviously......

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In which case any aspiring new leader needn't promise anything around tax.  Might have to abandon the planned April 2019 tax cuts though...is that a tax increase?


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## Tashyboy (Nov 2, 2018)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Would that be the same self-serving Johnson who recently accepted a Â£14,000 all expenses paid 3day visit to Saudi Arabia paid by the Saudi government?

Oh yes - just the guy we need.

But Cameron - you must be joking after the mess his stupidity has sent our country spiralling uncontrolled into.
		
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I think his one positive was giving the country its vote on Brexit, but seeing as that was a manifesto promise, it's not much of a positive. Mind he wouldn't of been the first to go back on a manifesto promise. but and this is my point. It wasn't his stupidity that put the " country spiralling uncontrolled into" that bogs me off. It was the fact he carried out a manifesto promise which was agreed by the Tory party. The vote went against his view and he has since done a brilliant job of sticking his head in the sand like an ostrich. When the going got tough, he waved the white flag.


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