# Scottish golf app- projected WHS



## turkish (Oct 23, 2020)

Hi all,

can see there being a good few administration errors / glitches with this app.... some of my friends have entered all their details including cdh and club yet app won’t find them- despite being able to login to Scottish golf website and view their handicap. 

Also for myself I have put in a fair amount of supplementary cards this year and came down to 10.7 from 14.4 but the Scottish golf app has only taken into consideration my medal scores and giving a projected whs of 11.7. I have worked out my best 8 as 10.125 whs. we have a slope rating of 122 and course rating 69.9 (par 70) so I don’t think it should be anywhere near 12.

Supplementary cards should be included in whs calculation no?


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## jim8flog (Oct 23, 2020)

turkish said:



			Supplementary cards should be included in whs calculation no?
		
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CONGU UHS makes no distinction between National Authorities with regard to SS
except for Cat 1 players.


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## Garush34 (Oct 23, 2020)

No idea as to how it's worked out. But having gone back to looking at mine this morning and it's all disappeared. Asking me to put in my CHD number.

What I did wonder and now thinking last nights was incorrect is how I can get a Handicap of 15.5, but when I put the details in for my course it come out as a playing Handicap of 13. Now all my rounds for the last two years have been at my home club, so would this not just come out as 13?


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## turkish (Oct 23, 2020)

Sorry for being dumb so yes those supplementary scores should count?


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## azazel (Oct 23, 2020)

Garush34 said:



			No idea as to how it's worked out. But having gone back to looking at mine this morning and it's all disappeared. Asking me to put in my CHD number.

What I did wonder and now thinking last nights was incorrect is how I can get a Handicap of 15.5, but when I put the details in for my course it come out as a playing Handicap of 13. Now all my rounds for the last two years have been at my home club, so would this not just come out as 13?
		
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If your index is 15.5 and that adjusts to a course or playing handicap of 13, it likely means that, for your ability, your course is easier than others. With an index of 15.5, if you play a course "harder" than your own you'll get more than 13 as a playing handicap. I could be wrong but that sounds like a great example of the system working as it's meant to.


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## Garush34 (Oct 23, 2020)

azazel said:



			If your index is 15.5 and that adjusts to a course or playing handicap of 13, it likely means that, for your ability, your course is easier than others. With an index of 15.5, if you play a course "harder" than your own you'll get more than 13 as a playing handicap. I could be wrong but that sounds like a great example of the system working as it's meant to.
		
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Thanks for the reply. It makes sense, i suppose I was hoping for a cut in the actual Handicap instead of just the playing Handicap.


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2020)

turkish said:



			Sorry for being dumb so yes those supplementary scores should count?
		
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Yes


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## azazel (Oct 23, 2020)

Garush34 said:



			Thanks for the reply. It makes sense, i suppose I was hoping for a cut in the actual Handicap instead of just the playing Handicap.
		
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Tell me about it - my index is 0.9 lower than my congu handicap but I'll actually get one stroke more as a playing handicap round my home course than I currently do.


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2020)

I didn't have the app before so installed it and had a look and it'a still all the details re. my current CONGU handicap, nothing to do with WHS there that I can see.

Was it just an overnight thing and has now gone or can anyone else still see any WHS related stuff in the app?


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## IanG (Oct 23, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I didn't have the app before so installed it and had a look and it'a still all the details re. my current CONGU handicap, nothing to do with WHS there that I can see.

Was it just an overnight thing and has now gone or can anyone else still see any WHS related stuff in the app?
		
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I don't see anything either - I think the system (and perhaps the indexes themselves) are still in flux.


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## Garush34 (Oct 23, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I didn't have the app before so installed it and had a look and it'a still all the details re. my current CONGU handicap, nothing to do with WHS there that I can see.

Was it just an overnight thing and has now gone or can anyone else still see any WHS related stuff in the app?
		
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I see it in the my Handicap section. I've been checking for days and all of a sudden last night it showed. It disappeared this morning and has come back after putting my CDH number in.


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## jim8flog (Oct 23, 2020)

turkish said:



			Supplementary cards should be included in whs calculation no?
		
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Made me check my England Golf record and they are in mine.


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## happyhacker (Oct 23, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I didn't have the app before so installed it and had a look and it'a still all the details re. my current CONGU handicap, nothing to do with WHS there that I can see.

Was it just an overnight thing and has now gone or can anyone else still see any WHS related stuff in the app?
		
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Not there for me either. Just the old congu handicap, no projected WHS part. Seems to have updated for some and not others.


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## KenL (Oct 23, 2020)

My projected index is there but my best score (last month at an open) is missing.

Other opens are showing up OK.  Hopefully just teething troubles and it will sort itself out.


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## Foxholer (Oct 23, 2020)

Garush34 said:



			No idea as to how it's worked out. But having gone back to looking at mine this morning and it's all disappeared. Asking me to put in my CHD number.

What I did wonder and now thinking last nights was incorrect is how I can get a *Handicap of 15.5*, but when I put the details in for my course it come out as a playing Handicap of 13. Now all my rounds for the last two years have been at my home club, so would this not just come out as 13?
		
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Your course(assuming Whites) is deemed (very slightly) 'easier than standard' for Bogey Golfers (113 vs 115) compared to Scratch Golfers. On top of that, the Course Rating (pretty much equivalent to SSS) is less than Par - so deemed 'easier than standard' for Scratch Golfers - at 65.4 compared to Par of 68. So plugging those numbers (and your *15.5 Index - not Handicap*) into a Course Handicap calculator results in a Course (playing) Handicap of 13.

FWIW/Further info. If you played a course where Course Rating  matches Par and Slope = 115, then Playing Handicap would = Index Therefore 15.5, so 16.
If slope is > 115, then playing index would increase; If Course Rating differs from Par (higher or lower), then the 'starting point' for the calculation needs to be adjusted (up or down resp). Hope that 'explanation' helps.

For comparison, My Course (Par 72) has rating of 72.6 and Slope of 141, so your Course Handicap would be 20.

Note: Both those values would be adjusted (or not) (95%) depending on whether it's Strokeplay (or Matchplay).


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## Garush34 (Oct 23, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			Your course(assuming Whites) is deemed (very slightly) 'easier than standard' for Bogey Golfers (113 vs 115) compared to Scratch Golfers. On top of that, the Course Rating (pretty much equivalent to SSS) is less than Par - so deemed 'easier than standard' for Scratch Golfers - at 65.4 compared to Par of 68. So plugging those numbers (and your *15.5 Index - not Handicap*) into a Course Handicap calculator results in a Course (playing) Handicap of 13.

FWIW/Further info. If you played a course where Course Rating  matches Par and Slope = 115, then Playing Handicap would = Index Therefore 15.5, so 16.
If slope is > 115, then playing index would increase; If Course Rating differs from Par (higher or lower), then the 'starting point' for the calculation needs to be adjusted (up or down resp). Hope that 'explanation' helps.

For comparison, My Course (Par 72) has rating of 72.6 and Slope of 141, so your Course Handicap would be 20.

Note: Both those values would be adjusted (or not) (95%) depending on whether it's Strokeplay (or Matchplay).
		
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Thanks for the detailed reply, so I guess for me to improve my index, I need to be shooting scores that are closer to 65 net so if I can drop off some of the scores in the 80's (currently 6 out of 8 are) then I'll see my index lower. 

Does that make sense?


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## Foxholer (Oct 23, 2020)

If those '8' were 'the best 8 of last 20', then you simply need to beat *any* of those to reduce your Index. But it will obviously reduce more if you beat any/all by a significant amount - as it's a (moving) average of those 'best 8'.

That's a major difference between WHS and Congu. Under Congu, reductions only happen if you shoot below Nett CSS (Stableford Adjusted).


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## KenL (Oct 23, 2020)




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## Garush34 (Oct 23, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			If those '8' were 'the best 8 of last 20', then you simply need to beat *any* of those to reduce your Index. But it will obviously reduce more if you beat any/all by a significant amount - as it's a (moving) average of those 'best 8'.

That's a major difference between WHS and Congu. Under Congu, reductions only happen if you shoot below Nett CSS (Stableford Adjusted).
		
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Great thanks, that's what I thought but best to get clarification.


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## abjectplop (Oct 23, 2020)

Any explanation as to why some can see an index and others can't? Just a phased roll out?


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## patricks148 (Oct 23, 2020)

We had an email from the club this morning telling all the members to ignore the email from Scottish golf on projected WHS...

they had used the wrong course and the wrong Slop/index or what ever so it was totally wrong.... a great start


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## yandabrown (Oct 23, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			We had an email from the club this morning telling all the members to ignore the email from Scottish golf on projected WHS...

they had used the wrong course and the wrong *Slop/index* or what ever so it was totally wrong.... a great start

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I think that the *Slop/index* for the whole WHS project is quite high


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## jim8flog (Oct 23, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			Any explanation as to why some can see an index and others can't? Just a phased roll out?
		
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 It may depend on your ISV, your club's attitude to GDPR and whether or they have have set it so you have to give permission for personal data to be uploaded to England etc golf.

If the latter have you been checking emails from your club.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 23, 2020)

I can see mine. Drumroll...

Handicap Index 7.0

Nice to have a vanity single digit handicap at last, I guess, but it's not quite the way I wanted to achieve it. 

P.S. I was playing off 10.5 in old money and have failed to break 90 on my last few outings.


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## jim8flog (Oct 23, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Some at my club can see it, others can't. Seems common across the country.

Epic fail, I'm afraid.
		
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 Who are your ISV and how has the manager set up for GDPR data transmission.

We use Intelligent Golf and it has been set up so the individual member has to give permission..  Without it being done players will not have access to the portal.
Those that have decided not to give permission will have to wait until the ISV changes the Data on 2nd November and can only view by the ISV (club system).


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## jim8flog (Oct 23, 2020)

From the 'experts' thread it appears there may be some delay with Handicap Master


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			Who are your ISV and how has the manager set up for GDPR data transmission.

We use Intelligent Golf and it has been set up so the individual member has to give permission..  Without it being done players will not have access to the portal.
Those that have decided not to give permission will have to wait until the ISV changes the Data on 2nd November and can only view by the ISV (club system).
		
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We use Club V1, I was asked to give permission, I gave permission, I can't see my index.

I have one friend at the same club, hasn't a clue about WHS, didn't see an email or give permission, he can see his index in the app.


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## azazel (Oct 23, 2020)

We use Club V1, I wasn't asked for permission, I can see my index!


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## happyhacker (Oct 23, 2020)

Exactly the same for us. Club V1, consent given for SG and can't view. Seems to be 50 / 50 from the members at the club as to who can view and who can't. 

Interestingly the SG app now doesn't even show the congu handicap. Going about as well as I expected it go tbh.


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## azazel (Oct 23, 2020)

I see you can register to submit a "general play score" through the Scottish Golf app. That's clever (if it works).


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## abjectplop (Oct 23, 2020)

happyhacker said:



			Exactly the same for us. Club V1, consent given for SG and can't view. Seems to be 50 / 50 from the members at the club as to who can view and who can't.

Interestingly the SG app now doesn't even show the congu handicap. Going about as well as I expected it go tbh.
		
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Same for me, no longer shows CONGU, asks me to resubmit CDH number then still nothing!!


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## fowlero (Oct 23, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			We had an email from the club this morning telling all the members to ignore the email from Scottish golf on projected WHS...

they had used the wrong course and the wrong Slop/index or what ever so it was totally wrong.... a great start

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Just had a look on the app and all my scores are against the course along the road where the sss is at least 1 shot lower


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## KenL (Oct 23, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Twitter basically seems split between people who can't see their projected HI and people who can but think it's bollox. 

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Is that on Scottish Golf twitter?
I asked a question but don't expect an answer. 🙄😂


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## jim8flog (Oct 23, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Twitter basically seems split between people who can't see their projected HI and people who can but think it's bollox. 

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 We do not wish to now about your handicap whichever one of the two it is


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Various social media feeds full of people either moaning about not being able to see it (me  ) or querying lots of clear errors in the data.

This is the sort of thing that keeps you awake at night when doing a data migration project.
		
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And is why when you do a large data migration project, you don't let your customers have a good old play with the new system while you're in the middle of said migration...🙈🙈


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2020)

Kaz said:



			I think it's worse than that. They must have been doing trial migrations for months and thought it was good to go. That the data is this bad just shy of a week to go live makes you wonder whether it can be sorted in time.
		
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I now have access to mines and the data is basically junk. We have 2 courses at my home club but it has all my home qualifiers on the 1 course despite the results being split over the 2 different courses. So not going to bother with what the number is as the calc will clearly have to be updated whenever the data is corrected.


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## happyhacker (Oct 23, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I now have access to mines and the data is basically junk. We have 2 courses at my home club but it has all my home qualifiers on the 1 course despite the results being split over the 2 different courses. So not going to bother with what the number is as the calc will clearly have to be updated whenever the data is corrected.
		
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Did it display / update in the app or did you get access an altnernative way?


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## patricks148 (Oct 23, 2020)

I couldn't see mine, but slow dave just text me, his is 8.9... lol he's off 3 and wehn we worked out his WHS, we thought he will be of 2.1.

shambles is one word to describe it


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2020)

happyhacker said:



			Did it display / update in the app or did you get access an altnernative way?
		
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I have logged in to the app several times today and the most recent time I tried the app opened with an updating app message, then went to 100% and when it then let me in the WHS stuff was there.


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## IanG (Oct 23, 2020)

Mine has just appeared too. 8.3 down from 9.5 on Congu. Looks roughly right and the data makes sense. Not sure they have used CSS though just the Course Rating. I’ll check it later once I’ve eaten. Maybe it will have changed again. 😀


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## ger147 (Oct 23, 2020)

IanG said:



			Mine has just appeared too. 8.3 down from 9.5 on Congu. Looks roughly right and the data makes sense. Not sure they have used CSS though just the Course Rating. I’ll check it later once I’ve eaten. Maybe it will have changed again. 😀
		
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Reminds me of the famous line from a TV programme from yesteryear "Confused? You won't be after this week's episode of Soap" 🤣🤣🤣


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## happyhacker (Oct 23, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I have logged in to the app several times today and the most recent time I tried the app opened with an updating app message, then went to 100% and when it then let me in the WHS stuff was there.
		
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Thanks. No change yet for me but I'll just leave it and try over next few days. Not like it really matters anyways, season finishes tomorrow for me.


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## rulefan (Oct 23, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Did we decide if the CSS omission was a mistake or is that just how they're doing it?
		
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Apparently it was a mistake.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 24, 2020)

Been periodically checking my data in the Scottish Golf App since first seeing the predicted index appear. At one point it showed a duplicated 2 sets of the same 10 scores, next time I looked about an hour later all scores had disappeared with only the index still showing 7.0. Not long after I couldn’t login at all. Checking this morning the index is still unchanged with the data showing only 11 scores. 

Another observation is that it now shows my CONGU handicap as both 10.4 and 10.5 in different places. 🤷‍♀️

It’s going well, another fine SG mess.


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## KenL (Oct 24, 2020)

I assume that handicap secretaries will be able to make any necessary adjustments if SG don't get things sorted?


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## needmoreclub (Oct 26, 2020)

I've been attempting to get registered for 2 weeks now. Lets me go through the form, then choose club, then you can't be found, put in cdh number, still can't find me. Emailed SG, unfortunately the chaps on holiday, Not exactly filling me with hope going forward.


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## azazel (Oct 27, 2020)

Looks like they might’ve fixed the course rating rather than css calculation for the initial index as the Scottish golf app now has me 0.5 lower than it did yesterday.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 27, 2020)

Oh good grief. Yes mine’s also changed again this morning. I’m now showing index 2.8, from CONGU 10.5. 

Hahaha! No.


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## KenL (Oct 27, 2020)

All over the shop!


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## IanG (Oct 27, 2020)

Now HI number has gone up by 0.6 without any of the individual entries having changed. The result is no longer even the average of the 8 highlighted differentials. 
(It was before even though some of the differentials were wrong ) 

I don’t think this is them implementing CSS unless of course they’re doing it wrong ! Do we know for sure that in Scotland the plan is to use CSS for the transition?  Don’t think I’ve seen that confirmed from any well  informed source.


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## patricks148 (Oct 27, 2020)

does it have to be on a phone app?

i've only a work phone, which doesn't allow apps, so if its only an app to keep track of it i'm buggered


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## virtuocity (Oct 27, 2020)

Is there any definitive information about playing and recording casual rounds through the winter, rules about fairway mats and suchlike?  Would like to get a few more recorded rounds under my belt in addition to non-counting winter league stuff.


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## Red scorpion (Oct 27, 2020)

Ive got app on tablet ,bit big to carry around course,but ok for reading a book at halway house at gleneagles👍


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## KenL (Oct 27, 2020)

Does anyone know how the "score differential" is calculated?


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## IanG (Oct 27, 2020)

KenL said:



			Does anyone know how the "score differential" is calculated?
	View attachment 33133

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Yes, eg in the highlighted case it is (79-72.3)*113/128


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## ger147 (Oct 27, 2020)

IanG said:



			Now HI number has gone up by 0.6 without any of the individual entries having changed. The result is no longer even the average of the 8 highlighted differentials.
(It was before even though some of the differentials were wrong )

I don’t think this is them implementing CSS unless of course they’re doing it wrong ! Do we know for sure that in Scotland the plan is to use CSS for the transition?  Don’t think I’ve seen that confirmed from any well  informed source.
		
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Same here, my index has changed but the results are the same as before and the index is no longer the average of the 8 highlighted differentials...🙈🙈


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## KenL (Oct 27, 2020)

IanG said:



			Yes, eg in the highlighted case it is (79-72.3)*113/128
		
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Great, thanks for that.


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## virtuocity (Oct 27, 2020)

Gets to the stage where you just peg the ball up and hit it.


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## IanG (Oct 27, 2020)

virtuocity said:



			Is there any definitive information about playing and recording casual rounds through the winter, rules about fairway mats and suchlike?  Would like to get a few more recorded rounds under my belt in addition to non-counting winter league stuff.
		
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I believe you have to embroider them on a docking  leaf and put them under your pillow overnight. 😀


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## IanG (Oct 27, 2020)

Now all my individual home scores have changed to the black tees (wrong) and it is no longer correctly identifying the lowest 8 (new) differentials. 

Off to play some golf now to remember what it is all about


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## Jimaroid (Oct 27, 2020)

A second change this morning. Half my away scores are now messed up, some showing the wrong courses and some showing the right course but with Adjusted Gross: NR, Score Differential: tbc. One record with both the wrong course and wrong NR.

Not sure what's more entertaining, the shambles of adding up some numbers or the shambles that is my golf.


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## patricks148 (Oct 27, 2020)

think youselves lucky the SG Differerd it for a year so they had more time, imaging how much of a balls up it would have been last year


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## ger147 (Oct 27, 2020)

Prediction for next Monday morning on 1st tees all over Scotland:

Player 1: "So what's your new WHS handicap?"
Player 2: "Good question."
Player 3 guffaws with laughter
Player 4: "What's WHS?"

Can't wait...


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## Jimaroid (Oct 27, 2020)

Kaz said:



			... they are doing all these trial runs and fiddling in full view of their customers (us)!!
		
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I know what you mean and I'm laughing, but also... we pay them for this.


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## Tommy10 (Oct 27, 2020)

Mine went up from 19.2 to 19.3 overnight, must have been penalised for snoring.


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## Garush34 (Oct 27, 2020)

Mines has gone up 0.8 and some gross scores now not showing in the list.


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## KenL (Oct 27, 2020)

The app seems to be getting worse and not better.
The 2 away scores shown are both wrong.
I scored 73 (2 over) at Haddy and 80 (11 over) at Kilspindie.
How can they get this wrong and how can they fix it in under a week?


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## KenL (Oct 27, 2020)

Kaz said:



			At least yours shows you what courses you played! Are the dates correct for when you were at haddington and Kilspindie?
		
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 🤣😂🤣. No they are not!  What a farce!


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## ger147 (Oct 27, 2020)

Same here, I now have a random score which has appeared on my record on a date my home club had a comp but I didn't play in, and it's 1 of my 8 counting scores despite having 2 other lower differentials not currently counting and the gross score for the phantom competition being blank...🙈🙈


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## Green Bay Hacker (Oct 27, 2020)

Wales Golf have based all our qualifying scores from the yellow tees instead of the whites!!!

Most players handicaps are forecast to go up by about 3 shots, mine has gone up by 4.6 

They are aware of the error so should hopefully correct it before 9 November when we are due to come out of lockdown.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 28, 2020)

Let’s see what’s going on in today’s episode of Scottish Golf App Lols...

My CONGU handicap certificate, which was the only correct data, showing 10.5, has now disappeared. 

In its place is an incorrect handicap record showing 10.4 but I’m unable to see why because the app either doesn’t show any data or is stuck on Loading... when I select CDH Handicap Record. 

My predicted WHS handicap index is a still a wildly incorrect 2.8. My away scores are all unchanged overnight and still wrong in varied ways.  

Tempted to take Monday off and join the roll-up just to participate in the hilarious chaos this is going to be.


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## ger147 (Oct 28, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



			Let’s see what’s going on in today’s episode of Scottish Golf App Lols...

My CONGU handicap certificate, which was the only correct data, showing 10.5, has now disappeared.

In its place is an incorrect handicap record showing 10.4 but I’m unable to see why because the app either doesn’t show any data or is stuck on Loading... when I select CDH Handicap Record.

My predicted WHS handicap index is a still a wildly incorrect 2.8. My away scores are all unchanged overnight and still wrong in varied ways. 

Tempted to take Monday off and join the roll-up just to participate in the hilarious chaos this is going to be.
		
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Monday is going to be carnage. A big bag of balls with random numbers on them in a big bag on the 1st tee, you draw one when you get to the tee and whatever number you draw that's your handicap for the day.

As funny/daft as that sounds, it's probably got as much chance of getting your handicap right as the Scottish Golf app...


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## Jacko_G (Oct 28, 2020)

For whatever reason they've absolutely slashed me to 2.1????

They're also using an NR in the calculations yet ignoring completed rounds? Not going to lose any sleep over it, I'll just submit a few cards over winter and hope my index settles down to a more realistic figure.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 28, 2020)

I can't stop myself from looking at this train wreck.

Carrying on from this morning when my CONGU and CDH records disappeared, I've just taken another look and my CONGU handicap certificate has reappeared! But there's still no sign of my CDH data and, in another new development, when I look at my Projected WHS Index now I get "No handicap record found"

2 working days remaining. Tick! Tock!


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## ger147 (Oct 28, 2020)

My data was there all day today but disappeared around 5pm, I detect another upload in progress...


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## abjectplop (Oct 28, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			For whatever reason they've absolutely slashed me to 2.1????

They're also using an NR in the calculations yet ignoring completed rounds? Not going to lose any sleep over it, I'll just submit a few cards over winter and hope my index settles down to a more realistic figure.
		
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I have that as well, at least 1 NR highlighted as counting and HI lowered because of it. Hopefully fixed by Monday!


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## IanG (Oct 28, 2020)

There seems to have been another update rolled out. My away scores are showing correctly now. YMMV


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## MendieGK (Oct 28, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			I have that as well, at least 1 NR highlighted as counting and HI lowered because of it. Hopefully fixed by Monday!
		
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NRs can count for handicap though..... the holes you didn’t score on just count as nett doubles


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## abjectplop (Oct 29, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			NRs can count for handicap though..... the holes you didn’t score on just count as nett doubles
		
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Yeah I know that, but this one was a horror show and definitely doesn't qualify in my 8 best scores!!


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## KenL (Oct 29, 2020)

IanG said:



			There seems to have been another update rolled out. My away scores are showing correctly now. YMMV
		
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Mine has updated overnight too.  Scores changed (away scores now correct) and index average is calculated correctly using the scores highlighted in yellow.

Edit - something still not right. I have entries with no score shown and with dates I did not play on. 😂


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

*cracks knuckles*

CONGU handicap has disappeared. Again.
I have another new Projected Handicap Index, today it’s 3.0!? Which from a 10.5 still makes no sense. 
All my away scores are missing. Again!
And some of the home scores are showing NR when I’m pretty sure they weren’t but I can’t check because the CDH record page isn’t working. AGAIN! 

And around we go. Again..


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

I really shouldn't but...


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## patricks148 (Oct 29, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Do we know how they plan to communicate handicap indices to those who don't have the app? (I'm suddenly interested)
		
Click to expand...

Jedi mind control.... or carrier pigeon??


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Do we know how they plan to communicate handicap indices to those who don't have the app? (I'm suddenly interested)
		
Click to expand...

I've not seen any authoritative info on it myself, it's not mentioned in the FAQs, the only thing I've seen is that one of my clubs has emailed to say that anyone without access to the App can continue to use the printed handicaps on the members noticeboard as before.

In a serious note, as much as this is amusing, I genuinely feel for all the handicap secretaries who are having to deal with this as volunteers. I do know the stress and strain this must be causing, I hope we can all laugh it off within a few rounds on the course. There are worse things to worry about.


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## ger147 (Oct 29, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



			I've not seen any authoritative info on it myself, it's not mentioned in the FAQs, the only thing I've seen is that one of my clubs has emailed to say that anyone without access to the App can continue to use the printed handicaps on the members noticeboard as before.

In a serious note, as much as this is amusing, I genuinely feel for all the handicap secretaries who are having to deal with this as volunteers. I do know the stress and strain this must be causing, I hope we can all laugh it off within a few rounds on the course. There are worse things to worry about. 

Click to expand...

I'm sure it will all settle down soon enough once the initial cutover period is finished.

I actually think it's a better system despite the more complicated and convoluted calculations required.


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## rulefan (Oct 29, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I'm sure it will all settle down soon enough once the initial cutover period is finished.

I actually think it's a better system despite the more complicated and convoluted calculations required.
		
Click to expand...

Of course those calculations will, in general, never need to be done by the players. Much like CSS


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## ger147 (Oct 29, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Of course those calculations will, in general, never need to be done by the players. Much like CSS
		
Click to expand...

Not going down that road on this thread as it's about progress in Scotland as seen via the Scottish golf app 👍


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

ger147 said:



			I actually think it's a better system despite the more complicated and convoluted calculations required.
		
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree, I've been looking forward to using slope for ages because it's going to work better for me playing across many courses.

I know very few other golfers would go for it as an idea but I would have been happy to rebase, start from scratch and play my way to an 8 best rounds. I don't care about my best round from 3 years ago, the system is built around current performance so why not start from there. As I say, that's just me and I know it wouldn't be popular in the majority for lots of very valid reasons.

The migration was always going to be a nightmare, the systems just aren't equivalent and trying to give an impression that they are in a retrospective munge of data was always going to create a lot of problems - it's why I'm so amazed it's taken this long to get to this point, it all looks like homework being done on the bus now. And I know in these situations it's the people at the coal face that are working hard and absorbing all the stress of a situation they've been put in by others.


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## ger147 (Oct 29, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



			Yep, I agree, I've been looking forward to using slope for ages because it's going to work better for me playing across many courses.

I know very few other golfers would go for it as an idea but I would have been happy to rebase, start from scratch and play my way to an 8 best rounds. I don't care about my best round from 3 years ago, the system is built around current performance so why not start from there. As I say, that's just me and I know it wouldn't be popular in the majority for lots of very valid reasons.

The migration was always going to be a nightmare, the systems just aren't equivalent and trying to give an impression that they are in a retrospective munge of data was always going to create a lot of problems - it's why I'm so amazed it's taken this long to get to this point, it all looks like homework being done on the bus now. And I know in these situations it's the people at the coal face that are working hard and absorbing all the stress of a situation they've been put in by others.
		
Click to expand...

That wouldn't have bothered me, and as someone who plays at 2 clubs with a combined 3 courses as well as 10-15 opens per year, I'm also looking forward to using slope as it deffo makes things more equitable when moving from course to course and playing away comps at other clubs.

And I'm not too bothered if the migration doesn't come out absolutely 100% accurate as I'll soon have a fresh batch of 20 scores submitted when the new season kicks off.


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## IanG (Oct 29, 2020)

Looks ok to me (at the mo) version 1.12.0 r11 on iOS


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

Kaz said:



			According to the App Store the actual app hasn't been updated in a month. Absolute mystery as to why it's stopped working for me.
		
Click to expand...

How did you uninstall the App? It appears to be caching something in Documents & Data which may be getting Offloaded to iCloud. Trying deleting it from Settings->General->iPhone Storage. Make sure it's not set as an Offload App and then remove it using Delete App. Then reinstall from the App Store?


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

I can login to the website and also see none of my data.


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## IanG (Oct 29, 2020)

Yes they are no doubt removing the evidence before roll out, that's one way to limit the arguments. Best grab a copy from your ISV before it goes from there too!


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Reading their instructions for downloading and setting up the app it seems that there should be a "Register" button but that's missing.
		
Click to expand...

It's pretty borked. I logged out and when I restarted the App I do have the "Register | Sign In" options at the top of the first interactive screen.


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## IanG (Oct 29, 2020)

... and the CDH data is back on the website .... despite my doubts I'm forced to admit my records and calculated new HI appear to be correct from what I can see. Maybe SG are going to make me eat humble pie by getting most things fixed before launch... ever the cynical optimist


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## ger147 (Oct 29, 2020)

IanG said:



			... and the CDH data is back on the website .... despite my doubts I'm forced to admit my records and calculated new HI appear to be correct from what I can see. Maybe SG are going to make me eat humble pie by getting most things fixed before launch... ever the cynical optimist
		
Click to expand...

Mines has been refreshed again and still some errors e.g. 1 away score showing as being played at home and a number of gross differentials not giving the correct answer based on the data displayed combined with me knowing where the CSS varied from SSS and adjusting accordingly.

However, if I take my best 8 scores correctly calculated I get the same answer for overall Index as is displayed on the app, so to be honest even if a few of these errors are still there when we go live on Monday, I'm not that bothered as the index is pretty much what it should be.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 29, 2020)

It'll level out a few chill pills needed.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

Well.

My App just said it did an update (not an App Store update, one of its mysterious self content updates)

My Projected Handicap Index is now "NaN" and the Effective date has gone back in time to 24/08/2020. I noted earlier today when it was claiming HI 3.0 the effective date was 28/08/2020.

I really want to join the roll-up on Monday and see the look on people's faces when I'm asked my handicap and I say it's literally "Not a Number".


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## ger147 (Oct 29, 2020)

I'm also now NaN.

I bagsie G for Monday, it's my favourite letter


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## Jimaroid (Oct 29, 2020)

It's just updated again. Gone from 1.12.0 r12 to 1.12.0 r13.

Please, just stop. Stop deploying to live and letting us see this trash fire unfold. I've got things to do.


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## patricks148 (Oct 29, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			It'll level out a few chill pills needed.
		
Click to expand...

says the man who was moaning a few days ago about his new low handicap


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## peld (Oct 29, 2020)

mine just updated - deleted all the rounds under my WHS section and now it says my WHS index is 15.2....which is my CONGU hcp.
sounds like a right mess.

Did they employ the same people who made the test and trace system?


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## rulefan (Oct 29, 2020)

peld said:



			mine just updated - deleted all the rounds under my WHS section and now it says my WHS index is 15.2....which is my CONGU hcp.
sounds like a right mess.

Did they employ the same people who made the test and trace system?
		
Click to expand...

Probably, but they forgot to do the test bit


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## Jimaroid (Oct 30, 2020)

_"Scream if you wanna go faster!"_

My away scores have returned, they're on the wrong courses. 
It seems to be suggesting an NR is a Score Differential of 0 now. 
My handicap index is back to the mysteriously excellent 2.8.


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## patricks148 (Oct 30, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



_"Scream if you wanna go faster!"_

My away scores have returned, they're on the wrong courses.
It seems to be suggesting an NR is a Score Differential of 0 now.
My handicap index is back to the mysteriously excellent 2.8.
		
Click to expand...

fancy a game next week around carnoustie, you can give me a couple of shots


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## IanM (Oct 30, 2020)

When did they start this project?


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## ger147 (Oct 30, 2020)

IanM said:



			When did they start this project?
		
Click to expand...

Shortly after the flood waters receded and Noah left the Ark...


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## Jacko_G (Oct 30, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Some detail from SG on how they've calculated the new handicap indices.

https://scottishgolf.org/whs-initial-handicap-index-explained/

Lots of data issues in the CDH have caused them problems, they've tried to work round these as best they can but GIGO. Upshot is that we might have to accept the record isn't perfect to start with but will correct over time as scores are submitted. Clubs have the ability to put through an adjustment if the HI is just wrong.
		
Click to expand...

I refer you to my post #88.

Like anything under the beleaguered leader of SG it's been another utter shambles. They've had all lockdown to work on this and get the system in place/correct why is anyone surprised she's overseen another monumental cock up.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 30, 2020)

Kaz said:



https://scottishgolf.org/whs-initial-handicap-index-explained/

Lots of data issues in the CDH have caused them problems, they've tried to work round these as best they can but GIGO. Upshot is that we might have to accept the record isn't perfect to start with but will correct over time as scores are submitted. Clubs have the ability to put through an adjustment if the HI is just wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Utterly shambolic. That is the most extraordinary piece of "dog ate my homework" I've ever seen from a professional organisation. All those data problems are surmountable, none are impossible to work around or resolve. They've had *over a year* to get ready for this!

Wow!

Edit: to be clear, I don't care about the mess of my handicap, I'll play my way back to normality. I do care about the many hundreds of volunteers that are likely losing a lot of their own time and sleep over this and SG should be ashamed of putting them on the spot like this.


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## IanM (Oct 30, 2020)

Anyone on here who works in IT, Change, Comms or Programme Management is gently shaking their heads and wondering who put this piece of work together.  Nothing is as easy as someone else's project, but in this case there's too many obvious "old chestnuts" happening to not raise eyebrows. 

*"In performing the initial WHS Index calculation, Scottish Golf has only been able to use data currently available on the Central Database of Handicaps (CDH). This is historic data provided by golf clubs through their Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) and, unfortunately, we have no control over its accuracy"*

How long have they had to do data cleansing?  They would have known before they started that club based data would be a mess, or at best, inconsistent.  My club writing out about needing emails/data permissions 3 weeks ago demonstrates the poor running of this.  The pages of questions on here shows how well the comms has gone...



Jimaroid said:



			the most extraordinary piece of "dog ate my homework" I've ever seen from a professional organisation. .
		
Click to expand...

I am pleased to see someone else says this....


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## BrianM (Oct 30, 2020)

Stupid question, but with the new system I’m assuming the point 1 is finished and you just go up and down as required from your best 8 rounds?


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## ger147 (Oct 30, 2020)

BrianM said:



			Stupid question, but with the new system I’m assuming the point 1 is finished and you just go up and down as required from your best 8 rounds?
		
Click to expand...

Yes - no more 0.1's, buffers etc.  Just play your round, submit your score and your index is re-calculated.


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## KenL (Oct 30, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Yes - no more 0.1's, buffers etc.  Just play your round, submit your score and your index is re-calculated.
		
Click to expand...

Yes.  No more big cut after the round of your life. Shame really.


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## Jacko_G (Oct 30, 2020)

KenL said:



			Yes.  No more big cut after the round of your life. Shame really.
		
Click to expand...

TBH once it settles down I do genuinely believe its a fairer system overall.


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## KenL (Oct 30, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			TBH once it settles down I do genuinely believe its a fairer system overall.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right I suppose.

I wonder how they came up with 8 out of 20.  For the medal dodgers that is a long period of time. 😃


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## abjectplop (Oct 31, 2020)

Another update overnight.....my index looks spot on for the first time and they've sorted the NR issue where it showed a score differential of 0.


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## Jimaroid (Oct 31, 2020)

With a heavy sigh...

I’m now handicap index 7.7 and it’s likely the closest it will get to “correct” but it seems to have been done through the removal of all my away scores and a home NR

So while it’s not at all representative of my recent play I’ll feel slightly less ridiculous playing off 8 for a bit. 

I always knew I had single figures in me. Easy when you fiddle the numbers. 😂


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## KenL (Oct 31, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			Another update overnight.....my index looks spot on for the first time and they've sorted the NR issue where it showed a score differential of 0.
		
Click to expand...

Mine is still not right. One away score missing and one with the wrong score.


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## KenL (Nov 2, 2020)

No hcp index or scores appearing at all on the app this morning.


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## Jimaroid (Nov 2, 2020)

“Working” for me. Layout has  removed the projected menu option and now have a WHS CONGU certificate of 7.7. 

Which is wrong but right. 🤯


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## Jimaroid (Nov 2, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Not sure what to do - index is in the right ballpark but so much bad data that’s a bit of a fluke. Do I try to get it corrected or just get in with h it?

I also have a big red square beside “My WHS Index >”. Any idea what that signifies?
		
Click to expand...

Same here, almost, but my square is blue. 

I’m just going to move on with my 7.7. My data is still full of the same errors with away courses. I’m resigned to it being easier to play my way back to normality than bother the handicap secs. with yet more hassle. I can’t imagine the grief they’re getting from certain members as it is.


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## Garush34 (Nov 2, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Mine is there, 1.0, with 21 scores in my record but some obvious issues with those. Like a round on a course I have never played and four rounds on one day, apparently. Slope wrong on most away scores.

Not sure what to do - index is in the right ballpark but so much bad data that’s a bit of a fluke. Do I try to get it corrected or just get in with h it?

I also have a big red square beside “My WHS Index >”. Any idea what that signifies?
		
Click to expand...

No idea what the square indicates but I have a big blue one next to mine. 

Looks like the have mine correct for a the last few changes. Going up a total of 1 shot. Will have to  get some general play scores in to see if I can get it lower.


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## patricks148 (Nov 2, 2020)

as someome who can't get the app i checked the main website and my clubs, nothing has changed on mine i'm still showing the old 5.3 i was before


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## Jimaroid (Nov 2, 2020)

Don’t think they’ve published WHS on the website yet? At least, my view of it is showing the old handicap still and no suggestion of a WHS that I can see.


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## TigerBear (Nov 2, 2020)

Including Medals and supplementary cards I have 18 scores for the calculator to choose my best 8 from - going by hdid app.

However on the Scottish Golf app it only shows best 4. That can't be right?


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## Jacko_G (Nov 2, 2020)

It'll settle down. 

A lot of tena pants will be required for this thread.


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## Tommy10 (Nov 2, 2020)

I've got a certificate with new handicap of 19.3 but 4 of my counting scores have no adjusted gross.

Oh well, no doubt it'll all sort itself out over the next 2 or 3..........decades


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## abjectplop (Nov 2, 2020)

TigerBear said:



			Including Medals and supplementary cards I have 18 scores for the calculator to choose my best 8 from - going by hdid app.

However on the Scottish Golf app it only shows best 4. That can't be right?
		
Click to expand...

Should be average of best 6 for 18 scores


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## Tommy10 (Nov 2, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Stablefords?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, now that I check the 4 comps were stableford............


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## patricks148 (Nov 2, 2020)

i got the wife to install it on her mobile, comes out at 3.2 at Nairn Dunbar... i'm not a member and havn't been since last winter and played no q comps there. did get an email from HDID asking me to agree to share scores for ND , which i didn't give and emailed the club to tell them i wasn't a member any longer as well.

lol


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## azazel (Nov 2, 2020)

They've nearly got mine right but not quite! Two competition scores are missing, which brings my 21st round into their calculation and it's 2.6 below what should be my 8th best, so it's giving me an index 0.3 lower than it should be. Costs me a shot on my course handicap but I'm not going to cry, even if it isn't sorted out over time.


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## fowlero (Nov 2, 2020)

I have been checking the app regularly over the last couple of weeks and my projected handicap index has fluctuated between 7.3 & 11.9 and several numbers in between 

Having checked it now as it seems to be confirmed as final it has my Handicap Index at 8.6 which is exactly what my Congu handicap was  however when I apply this to the slope rating at my home course it gives me a playing handicap of 11 #bandit 

There are still scores in my record from a course I have never played, and it looks like there are also a couple missing, they are however showing on howdidido.

this looks like a complete mess, I have a feeling there will be some suspect scores come the start of next season.

The club official who runs our winter comp has already decided to play the winter off of our final congu handicaps as they do not believe the new WHS handicap indexes are anywhere near accurate. Our winter comp is non qualifying for handicap purposes, 6 best stableford scores over the winter


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## patricks148 (Nov 2, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			i got the wife to install it on her mobile, comes out at 3.2 at Nairn Dunbar... i'm not a member and havn't been since last winter and played no q comps there. did get an email from HDID asking me to agree to share scores for ND , which i didn't give and emailed the club to tell them i wasn't a member any longer as well.

lol
		
Click to expand...

i emailed ND and let them know my handicap was showing for ND, she said she would remove my ND score ( FYI i didn't have any) and i'm now showing as 4.2 at Nairn, was 5.3 before... maybe i will stick a couple of score in at the kings in the winter qaul com after all


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2020)

Anyone else's WHS index disappeared again? Mines was fine yesterday but has now totally vanished.

I have no real issue with all the two'ing and fro'ing running up to the launch date but it's now live, as proclained all over social media and Scottish Golf's website, so it's no longer acceptable just to disappear.


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## IanG (Nov 3, 2020)

Yep mine disappeared last night and has not returned. It’s a new game to try and guess what will happen next 😀


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## KenL (Nov 3, 2020)

Same for me.


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## patricks148 (Nov 3, 2020)

mine is still there


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## peld (Nov 3, 2020)

everything disappeared from mine. asked me to put CDH in again but nothing happens.
Almost impressed about how bad this thing is!


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## Jimaroid (Nov 3, 2020)

For once I seem to be in the lucky camp and mine's working fine.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 3, 2020)

Working perfectly.

Looking forward to getting more counters in this year.


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2020)

From this morning's survey, only 3 out of 7 have an index today.

That's a pretty poor strike rate for SG and WHS...


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## peld (Nov 3, 2020)

even though its not working, does anyone know how to add a supplemental score at a different course?


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## williamalex1 (Nov 3, 2020)

ger147 said:



			From this morning's survey, only 3 out of 7 have an index today.

That's a pretty poor strike rate for SG and WHS...
		
Click to expand...

Mine's still working


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## Garush34 (Nov 3, 2020)

peld said:



			even though its not working, does anyone know how to add a supplemental score at a different course?
		
Click to expand...

You should have a button that says general play score in the Handicap section, and with your GPS on on your phone it will let you search for courses.


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## IanG (Nov 3, 2020)

Records now back on the App and WHS HI also showing on the SG website for the 1st time.


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## KenL (Nov 3, 2020)

IanG said:



			Records now back on the App and WHS HI also showing on the SG website for the 1st time.
		
Click to expand...

Same, but I still have scores wrong.


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## IanG (Nov 3, 2020)

On the plus side we now have the possibility of the website and the App disagreeing on your handicap, the fun never stops


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## williamalex1 (Nov 3, 2020)

IanG said:



			On the plus side we now have the possibility of the website and the App disagreeing on your handicap, the fun never stops 

Click to expand...

Why bother giving you a handicap then saying you only get 95% of it


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## rulefan (Nov 3, 2020)

williamalex1 said:



			Why bother giving you a handicap then saying you only get 95% of it 

Click to expand...

The 95% is only for competition results not for handicapping calculations.
Given the above, it has been shown in _strokeplay_ a low handicapper was marginally less likely to win than a higher handicapper.


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## abjectplop (Nov 3, 2020)

How to submit general play scores:
https://scottishgolf.org/handicapping-homepage/general-play-scores/


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## rulefan (Nov 3, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			How to submit general play scores:
https://scottishgolf.org/handicapping-homepage/general-play-scores/

Click to expand...

It seems to only offer Scottish courses.

This seems to be a Scottish Golf initiative
_Failure to submit your score on the day may result in a penalty score being applied to your Handicap Index record._


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## IanG (Nov 3, 2020)

rulefan said:



			It seems to only offer Scottish courses.
		
Click to expand...

Or none at all as in my case


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## yandabrown (Nov 3, 2020)

williamalex1 said:



			Why bother giving you a handicap then saying you only get 95% of it 

Click to expand...

You get 100% if you're playing singles match play.


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2020)

IanG said:



			Or none at all as in my case 

Click to expand...

No option for supplementary scores on my app either. On a brighter note, at least I have an official index again


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## Jimaroid (Nov 3, 2020)

I can’t check what courses are listed to enter a general play score because “you need to be at a course to initiate a general play score”

The affliction of poor location services design strikes again. What’s wrong with letting me look at a list and searching and choosing? 

Thinking this through, to learn how it works, I have to actually go to a course and start a general play score which I’m then committed to finish and enter scores hole by hole as I play.

Hmm. Fine, I guess.


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



			I can’t check what courses are listed to enter a general play score because “you need to be at a course to initiate a general play score”

The affliction of poor location services design strikes again. What’s wrong with letting me look at a list and searching and choosing?

Thinking this through, to learn how it works, I have to actually go to a course and start a general play score which I’m then committed to finish and enter scores hole by hole as I play.

Hmm. Fine, I guess. 

Click to expand...

What is the distance limit before it kicks in? I'm less than 1 mile as the crow flies from the golf course nearest to my house.


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## Jimaroid (Nov 3, 2020)

ger147 said:



			What is the distance limit before it kicks in? I'm less than 1 mile as the crow flies from the golf course nearest to my house.
		
Click to expand...

No idea. I'm 2.1 miles as the crow flies to my nearest and it's not showing any courses.


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



			No idea. I'm 2.1 miles as the crow flies to my nearest and it's not showing any courses.
		
Click to expand...

Giving away my age now but this is a good laugh isn't it? Reminds me of an episode of Treasure Hunt. All we're missing is Anneka and her trusty helicopter.


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## IanG (Nov 3, 2020)

I'm live 150m from the nearest point of the course and 500 m from the 1st tee - still nothing.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 3, 2020)

Mine working fully, even shows me courses 7 miles away from my current location.


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## Jimaroid (Nov 3, 2020)

This is fine.


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## Garush34 (Nov 3, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



			I can’t check what courses are listed to enter a general play score because “you need to be at a course to initiate a general play score”

The affliction of poor location services design strikes again. What’s wrong with letting me look at a list and searching and choosing?

Thinking this through, to learn how it works, I have to actually go to a course and start a general play score which I’m then committed to finish and enter scores hole by hole as I play.

Hmm. Fine, I guess. 

Click to expand...

I had this same issue yesterday, was looking at it when having our committee meeting. It worked in the morning for me, but wouldn't at night. Had to allow permission for the location services even though it had worked before. Although saying that, Id be less than a mile from my club. So maybe worth a check your location is allowed by the app. 

Annoyingly for me my club doesn't have their winter course measured and the match committee don't think many people will want to put in extra scores over the winter so only allowing them in season.


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## Jimaroid (Nov 3, 2020)

Garush34 said:



			So maybe worth a check your location is allowed by the app.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, checked all that. It doesn’t actually let you past the “General Play Score” button if you don’t have location services enabled. So enabling it lets it proceed but then shows the ”You must be at a course...” error.

It’s not a big deal, it’s just another shonky exhibit in the SG hall of fame.


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## ger147 (Nov 3, 2020)

Jimaroid said:



			Yeah, checked all that. It doesn’t actually let you past the “General Play Score” button if you don’t have location services enabled. So enabling it lets it proceed but then shows the ”You must be at a course...” error.

It’s not a big deal, it’s just another shonky exhibit in the SG hall of fame.
		
Click to expand...

My app is set to allow the use of GPS Location services but I don't have the General Play Score button. Guessing I'll be getting another update in the next day or two.


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## IanG (Nov 3, 2020)

ger147 said:



			My app is set to allow the use of GPS Location services but I don't have the General Play Score button. Guessing I'll be getting another update in the next day or two.
		
Click to expand...

yep button-less here too - location services set to on


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## KenL (Nov 3, 2020)

ger147 said:



			My app is set to allow the use of GPS Location services but I don't have the General Play Score button. Guessing I'll be getting another update in the next day or two.
		
Click to expand...

Me neither.


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## KenL (Nov 3, 2020)

I filled in this form https://t.co/7Dj4sa0dZi?ssr=true
to highlight my concerns about my ropey scoring record.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 3, 2020)

Yeah likewise don't see a general play button but I can access courses.


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## KenL (Nov 3, 2020)

We are going with Intelligent Golf and their app.
Pal entered a score today using that and it is showing up as pending on his SG app.
Might give it a go this weekend is weather is decent.


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## Tommy10 (Nov 4, 2020)

Our winter league is non qualifying (we play off mats at par 3's) but comp is played off yellow tees which we have a rating and slope for.

Would I be able to enter my score this Saturday as general play so it counts as part of my 20?


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## peld (Nov 4, 2020)

KenL said:



			We are going with Intelligent Golf and their app.
Pal entered a score today using that and it is showing up as pending on his SG app.
Might give it a go this weekend is weather is decent.
		
Click to expand...

we have iG too but it will only work for my home course. im off to play Gullane tomorrow and would like to put in my score but there is no update allowing me to put in a general play score


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## rulefan (Nov 4, 2020)

Tommy10 said:



			Our winter league is non qualifying* (we play off mats at par 3's)* but comp is played off yellow tees which we have a rating and slope for.

Would I be able to enter my score this Saturday as general play so it counts as part of my 20?
		
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That in itself doesn't make it_ "non-qualifying"_


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## Gowferdee (Nov 4, 2020)

im a new member and not yet got a handicap...just about to put some cards in...

when i try to join the scottish golf app its asking me for a cdh number - my new club didn't give me this...do i only get it when i get a handicap? i only got a login to brs


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## Siolag (Nov 4, 2020)

Gowferdee said:



			im a new member and not yet got a handicap...just about to put some cards in...

when i try to join the scottish golf app its asking me for a cdh number - my new club didn't give me this...do i only get it when i get a handicap? i only got a login to brs
		
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You should be allocated that when you get a handicap. At this point you may want to join “How Did I Do” if your club use it. If not then your handicap officials should let you know it.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 4, 2020)

My opinion to play general scores is now live on the app.

Go into handicap - its above my index - tap the button to allow you to play.

Glad its all sorted.


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## KenL (Nov 6, 2020)

Kaz said:



			I filled in the ScottishGolf support form to ask about why my handicap was displayed in red and why I didn't have the general play button.

Today I got a couple of automated emails from them saying I was now a member of my club and that my email address had changed. Both of those should have been fine so I suspect they had some sort of mismatch behind the scenes. Anyway, my handicap now shows blue and I can see the general play button. Just need to wait until spring so I can use it 

Click to expand...

Why not put in scores now?
I am planning on putting in a general play score tomorrow and perhaps Sunday.


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## KenL (Nov 6, 2020)

That's true.
A few temp greens at the moment is a worry.
Join a links course.


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## Old Skier (Nov 6, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Course isn't playing as a properly measured course at the moment. Winter tees everywhere and a few temporary greens. Maybe if I find myself playing down the coast at some point I'll give it a go.

It actually raises an interesting question. With the app you don't need to speak to anyone in the club to put in a score. So who's going to stop invalid scores going in when temps are on etc?
		
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If your system is the same as England’s the home club still have to accept casu/supplementary scores before they take effect.


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## KenL (Nov 6, 2020)

Kaz said:



			In a way I'm glad I'm not at the moment as it'd be frustrating not being able to travel to it.
		
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Guidelines!


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## virtuocity (Nov 7, 2020)

Am I responsible for completing a general play score? Do I need to show intent in advance of my round? When is this live from?


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## Red scorpion (Nov 7, 2020)

E mail today ,we just sign in on hdid or with pro if we wish to put a round in.


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## williamalex1 (Nov 7, 2020)

KenL said:



			That's true.
A few temp greens at the moment is a worry.
Join a links course.
		
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How far are we allowed to travel to play an away course, and must it be in the same tier as your home course 
 ?.


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## Garush34 (Nov 7, 2020)

virtuocity said:



			Am I responsible for completing a general play score? Do I need to show intent in advance of my round? When is this live from?
		
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Yes I believe you are, you also need to put in the phone number and signature of your playing partner to verify the score. 

My understanding is that its live now, provided you are playing a measured course. If your course has a shortened winter course, you need to Check if that has been measured and rated as such. Mines as such is not a measured course at the moment so can't put in general play scores despite wanting too.


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## KenL (Nov 7, 2020)

We've



williamalex1 said:



			How far are we allowed to travel to play an away course, and must it be in the same tier as your home course 
 ?.
		
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Do what you want, they are only guidelines. If driving to a course and playing golf I there is no issue as far as I am concerned.


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## williamalex1 (Nov 7, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Sadly if people don't adhere to the guidelines we'll be stuck with covid for longer and, quite probably, the guidelines will become law.
		
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 In Scotland is there a set distance we're allowed to travel to play golf, does it have to be in the same covid tier level ?


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## KenL (Nov 7, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Sadly if people don't adhere to the guidelines we'll be stuck with covid for longer and, quite probably, the guidelines will become law.
		
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Tell that to people in Glasgow and Lanarkshire who are ignoring the rules and spreading the virus. Somebody driving to a golf course on their own to play in the outdoors then driving straight home is not posing a risk to anyone.


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## abjectplop (Nov 7, 2020)

Has anyone had any success with the General Play button suddenly appearing? I've emailed Scottish Golf about it but guess it'll take a few days.


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## williamalex1 (Nov 7, 2020)

yandabrown said:



			You get 100% if you're playing singles match play.
		
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But not in stroke play or stableford


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## Garush34 (Nov 9, 2020)

2000 general play scores in put in the last week, good to see players using it. 

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/...oMvx8dKUItV_6bVnWRmyueTowFDNyiWwKW1NLKcxLuOsE


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## CliveW (Nov 9, 2020)

KenL said:



			We've

Do what you want, they are only guidelines. If driving to a course and playing golf I there is no issue as far as I am concerned.
		
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From the Scottish Golf website...


You should avoid travel to other areas regardless of their level unless essential.

For exercise/sport – there is an exemption, however, it is limited: 
In tier 4, not permitted to drive outside your Local Authority area for exercise – you can cross boundaries in the process of exercising i.e if a golf course straddles two Local Authority area boundaries. 
In tier 3, you are permitted to travel around 5 miles for exercise. 
In tier 2 & tier 1, you are permitted to travel freely for exercise within your own Local Authority area.
U18s – can travel freely for exercise in Tiers 0-3. They should not travel in or out of a Tier 4 area.


All golfers should be aware of travel guidance outlined by the Scottish Government and this should always be followed.


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## KenL (Nov 9, 2020)

CliveW said:



			From the Scottish Golf website...


You should avoid travel to other areas regardless of their level unless essential.

For exercise/sport – there is an exemption, however, it is limited: 
In tier 4, not permitted to drive outside your Local Authority area for exercise – you can cross boundaries in the process of exercising i.e if a golf course straddles two Local Authority area boundaries. 
In tier 3, you are permitted to travel around 5 miles for exercise. 
In tier 2 & tier 1, you are permitted to travel freely for exercise within your own Local Authority area.
U18s – can travel freely for exercise in Tiers 0-3. They should not travel in or out of a Tier 4 area.


All golfers should be aware of travel guidance outlined by the Scottish Government and this should always be followed.


Click to expand...

When there are 1200 call outs to fire services and 12 assaults on fire crews along with hundreds of house parties broken up by police (all central belt Scotland) I fail to see an issue with people travelling on their own to have a game of golf.


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## AliMc (Nov 10, 2020)

Garush34 said:



			Yes I believe you are, you also need to put in the phone number and signature of your playing partner to verify the score.

My understanding is that its live now, provided you are playing a measured course. If your course has a shortened winter course, you need to Check if that has been measured and rated as such. Mines as such is not a measured course at the moment so can't put in general play scores despite wanting too.
		
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We are using Intelligent Golf, at the end of the round it asks for a photo of a signed score card, no details of playing partner


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## Jacko_G (Nov 10, 2020)

KenL said:



			When there are 1200 call outs to fire services and 12 assaults on fire crews along with hundreds of house parties broken up by police (all central belt Scotland) I fail to see an issue with people travelling on their own to have a game of golf.
		
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Nobody really cares less about what you fail to see, the bottom line is that is what is expected. The more people that break and flaunt rules to suit themselves the higher the chances are of Scotland following Londonville into lockdown.


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

The index sheet the club have stuck up from Scottish Golf, i' sure is wrong, anyone under 5 index has the same handicap off all the tee;s be it black right down to the silvers which is 1700 yards shorter??


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## Deleted member 3432 (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			The index sheet the club have stuck up from Scottish Golf, i' sure is wrong, anyone under 5 index has the same handicap off all the tee;s be it black right down to the silvers which is 1700 yards shorter??
		
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My mate down here has the same, playing off 3 on all tees even though Blue tees are 500 yards longer.

We both had playing handicaps of 5 under 'old handicap system' now he gets 3 shots off all tees and I get 3,5 and 6 off yellow, white and Blue


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## Garush34 (Nov 10, 2020)

AliMc said:



			We are using Intelligent Golf, at the end of the round it asks for a photo of a signed score card, no details of playing partner
		
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Cool, not sure if we will use masterscoreboard for ours or not. The info regarding the playing partner was in a document that Scottish golf sent out, so when you put the general play score through you must need to do this. I guess this is for when people are playing away from their home course.


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

saving_par said:



			My mate down here has the same, playing off 3 on all tees even though Blue tees are 500 yards longer.

We both had playing handicaps of 5 under 'old handicap system' now he gets 3 shots off all tees and I get 3,5 and 6 off yellow, white and Blue 

Click to expand...

my mate slow dave was going to stick a couple of cards in off the silvers, but told he couldn't at the moment as the clubs don't think its right either


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## Jacko_G (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			my mate slow dave was going to stick a couple of cards in off the silvers, but told he couldn't at the moment as the clubs don't think its right either

Click to expand...

Course rating wrong????

Well I never. The idiots that support it think its foolproof.

Joke system that isn't fit for purpose - I may have mentioned that previously though.


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## rulefan (Nov 10, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Course rating wrong????

Well I never. The idiots that support it think its foolproof.

Joke system that isn't fit for purpose - I may have mentioned that previously though.
		
Click to expand...

Yes I seem to remember that. But I don't remember your giving any ideas about a better system. Did I miss it?


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## Jacko_G (Nov 10, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Yes I seem to remember that. But I don't remember your giving any ideas about a better system. Did I miss it?
		
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Did i miss you admitting its


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## rulefan (Nov 10, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Did i miss you admitting its flawed?
		
Click to expand...

I thought you were the one wanting something new.
I'm happy with what we've got until you show me something better.


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			The index sheet the club have stuck up from Scottish Golf, i' sure is wrong, anyone under 5 index has the same handicap off all the tee;s be it black right down to the silvers which is 1700 yards shorter??
		
Click to expand...

Is the chart different from the course handicap calculator on R&A homepage?


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			Is the chart different from the course handicap calculator on R&A homepage?
		
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I'd assume so, its the SG handicap index sheets to convert from Index for what tee to playing handicap, ours has the 5 tee;s rated for men and one  another set for Women.

the R&A App gave a vastly diff handicap to what the SG sheets say, though some on here are saying the App is not for UK golfers, so much for World Handicap system then


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			I'd assume so, its the SG handicap index sheets to convert from Index for what tee to playing handicap, ours has the 5 tee;s rated for men and one  another set for Women.

the R&A App gave a vastly diff handicap to what the SG sheets say, though some on here are saying the App is not for UK golfers, so much for World Handicap system then

Click to expand...

I think the R&A calculator is fine for UK if you select 'without course rating minus par' though it is confusing!


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			I think the R&A calculator is fine for UK if you select 'without course rating minus par' though it is confusing!
		
Click to expand...

i don't have it on my phone it was one of the guys at the club. the SG sheet gives me a handicap of 5 off all the tee's (4.2index) there is 1700 yards diff between the blacks and silver tee's yet still have the same handicap off all of them, Black CR 74.6 and silvers 67.1???


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			i don't have it on my phone it was one of the guys at the club. the SG sheet gives me a handicap of 5 off all the tee's (4.2index) there is 1700 yards diff between the blacks and silver tee's yet still have the same handicap off all of them, Black CR 74.6 and silvers 67.1???
		
Click to expand...

Your course handicap is worked out from the slope only - course rating is not used


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			i don't have it on my phone it was one of the guys at the club. the SG sheet gives me a handicap of 5 off all the tee's (4.2index) there is 1700 yards diff between the blacks and silver tee's yet still have the same handicap off all of them, Black CR 74.6 and silvers 67.1???
		
Click to expand...

5 is probably correct on both as you're then effectively playing against the CR which is equivalent to SSS.


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			5 is probably correct on both as you're then effectively playing against the CR which is equivalent to SSS.
		
Click to expand...

the slope is 138 comp to 123 off the silver so should they still be the same?


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			the slope is 138 comp to 123 off the silver so should they still be the same?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, both 5 for a 4.2 index. Only then look at the course rating....there's 7.5 shots between the two ratings so in terms of playing to handicap, effectively you've got an extra 7.5 shots off the short tees compared to the back.


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			Yes, both 5 for a 4.2 index. Only then look at the course rating....there's 7.5 shots between the two ratings so in terms of playing to handicap, effectively you've got an extra 7.5 shots off the short tees compared to the back.
		
Click to expand...

eh, i'm 5 off every tee according to the SG sheet


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## rulefan (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			the slope is 138 comp to 123 off the silver so should they still be the same?
		
Click to expand...

Go here 
https://www.randa.org/WorldHandicapSystem
Choose 18 hole and then try both with and without (CR - Par)


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			eh, i'm 5 off every tee according to the SG sheet
		
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Yes you play off 5 on either tee but you're playing against the course rating so effectively you need to shoot 79.6 off blacks and 72.1 off silver. Make sense?!!


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			Yes you play off 5 on either tee but you're playing against the course rating so effectively you need to shoot 79.6 off blacks and 72.1 off silver. Make sense?!!
		
Click to expand...


Gross or net?


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

patricks148 said:



			Gross or net?
		
Click to expand...

Gross


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## Deleted member 3432 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			Gross
		
Click to expand...

How do you shoot a gross score of 79.6 or 72.1?


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

saving_par said:



			How do you shoot a gross score of 79.6 or 72.1?
		
Click to expand...

You don't..... possibly poorly worded by me! 79 less the handicap of 5 would have him below the course rating on blacks, and 72 less 5 on silvers would have him below the course rating on silver. Just making the point that despite playing off the same handicap on different tees, a significantly different score is required to play to that handicap.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			You don't..... possibly poorly worded by me! 79 less the handicap of 5 would have him below the course rating on blacks, and 72 less 5 on silvers would have him below the course rating on silver. Just making the point that despite playing off the same handicap on different tees, a significantly different score is required to play to that handicap.
		
Click to expand...

Phew, this whole thing is confusing enough without trying to hit .6 of a shot


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## abjectplop (Nov 10, 2020)

saving_par said:



			Phew, this whole thing is confusing enough without trying to hit .6 of a shot 

Click to expand...

It's basically a 60% backswing on every shot!!!


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## patricks148 (Nov 10, 2020)

abjectplop said:



			Gross
		
Click to expand...

Thanks, 

as Henry Higgins would say " by jove i think she's got it"

well at least i think i have


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## IainP (Nov 11, 2020)

williamalex1 said:



			But not in stroke play or stableford
		
Click to expand...

Could have just said strokeplay 😉😉 (individual)


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## AliMc (Nov 19, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Anyone else had their handicap vanish from the app? Getting a bit beyond the joke now.
		
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Still have my handicap but now shown in red instead of blue, never had a handicap certificate or general play button, emailed SG three times but don't ever get a reply.


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## KenL (Nov 19, 2020)

I used the online form two weeks ago, emailed them a week ago and yesterday sent a DM on Twitter.  Don't expect a reply or fix!


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## happyhacker (Nov 19, 2020)

My handicap dropped out of app on Monday. I thought it was in response to a ticket I raised about no general option (got an email welcoming me to my golf club as a 10 year member was amusing). 

Another ticket raised and it's now back with the blue box and general play option available. No reply from SG at any point but they did action the ticket at least. Will see if it sticks.


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## abjectplop (Nov 19, 2020)

I find uninstalling then reinstalling the app usually helps.


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## KenL (Nov 19, 2020)

KenL said:



			I used the online form two weeks ago, emailed them a week ago and yesterday sent a DM on Twitter.  Don't expect a reply or fix!
		
Click to expand...

Well, I got a reply to my Twitter DM in under 24 hours!

A couple of scores on my hcp record used to calculate my initial index are wrong.

Their reply was as shown below...


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## AliMc (Nov 19, 2020)

KenL said:



			Well, I got a reply to my Twitter DM in under 24 hours!

A couple of scores on my hcp record used to calculate my initial index are wrong.

Their reply was as shown below...
	View attachment 33616

Click to expand...

Sent a DM on Twitter at 19:08 and got a reply at 20:20, issue being investigated now 😱


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## KenL (Nov 26, 2020)

Kaz said:



			I'm still getting nowhere with this. No response from SG. I've been a defender of theirs over the last few years but this whole migration to WHS and their app has been pathetic.
		
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Why would you have defended them? Their rep has never been great.


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## AliMc (Nov 27, 2020)

AliMc said:



			Sent a DM on Twitter at 19:08 and got a reply at 20:20, issue being investigated now 😱
		
Click to expand...

 I got a reply on Twitter yesterday and all issues now fixed, maybe the best way to contact them


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## AliMc (Nov 27, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Took your advice and DMd them. Got a reply straight away and the issue fixed in a few mins. Seems that’s the best approach to take.
		
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Good, a few folk at my club have done so and had a positive result


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## KenL (Nov 27, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Don’t want to take this thread on a tangent so will just say that much of the criticism levelled at them was unjustified.
		
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No it wasn't. Implementation of new system has been a farce.


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## KenL (Nov 27, 2020)

Kaz said:



			Agreed but I was referring to a lot of the crap thrown in their direction over the last few years.
		
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Ah, OK.


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## KenL (Nov 28, 2020)

I'm playing today and going to try out the SG app for scoring.  Been using the Intelligent Golf one so far but friends have reported this week there have been problems getting the slope wrong for our course.


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## KenL (Nov 30, 2020)

Kaz said:



			How'd it go?
		
Click to expand...

It worked perfectly.  Really nice clear score entering system.
Weird signing at the end where you have to get someone to sign on your phone to verify.
Seems wrong in covid times!

On the golf, poor 81 on such a glorious day.


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## patricks148 (Dec 10, 2020)

just had a email from the club saying despite going over it with SG many times, they still have issued the wrong handicaps due to them keep using the wrong slope and course  rating, despite this being highlighted to them by the club!!!

so the club are going to Re do them all themselves over the next few months..

you couldn't make it up


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