# The future of golf clubs ??



## kozmos (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening all...

We received this letter last week at our club, already there is a petition with over one hundred members against the idea. I'm not sure where I stand on this tbh, what are you're thoughts on the subject? and if you're club already uses this system does it work? effect roll ups etc....

thanks 

koz[SIZE=-1]
Dear Members,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]              As you know the Club is already running a tee booking system for                competitions. This after initial hitches appears to be working                well. There have also been an increasing number of members expressing                concern that they cannot justify arriving at the Club and having                to wait for an hour or more to play. The Management Committee                is therefore looking to extend the system to all golfing activity                early in the New Year. 

              Some members may feel that this will mean they can no longer just              turn up and play. That is incorrect. Members will be able to turn              up, but instead of checking the ball shute, they will go into the              Pro shop to see if the tee is booked. If not, you can book that              slot and get out and play. If there is a booking you can take the              next available slot. That is no different from the ball shute.              Five balls in the shute equals five tee bookings on the system.

              Members will be able to book their tee times up to 21 days in advance              - by telephoning the Pro shop or the Secretary, by booking online,              by going into the Pro shop or using the booking system that will              operate in the bar. Visitors will only be able to book up to 7              days in advance.

              Before taking this decision, enquiries have been made of other              local clubs who are already operating it, like Launceston and Thurlestone,              to see what their experiences have been. Yes, they did face some              initial resistance from members, but once those members saw it              operating they realised that it is a fair system and none has noticed              a change to their playing habits or times.

              In addition to making life easier for the members, the system will              also provide us with important information on the use of the course.              Quieter times can be identified and marketed to visitors and societies,              so that such use does not interfere with the members' enjoyment              of the course and Clubhouse. The Clubs we have spoken with have              seen an increase in green fees since introducing the system and              at Yelverton that can allow for greater investment in the course              and clubhouse. It will also allow better management and control              of issues such as slow play, as at present, there is no way of              knowing what time a group set off except in competitions.

              The introduction of the system will include the availability of              training for all members on how to operate it. This can be run              either for large groups or for more flexibility, just you and your              golfing buddies if you prefer. Initially we will run these sessions              over a two month period, but members will be free to seek any further              training beyond that period.

              The club fully understands that there will be those who feel that              the new booking procedure is unnecessary, but we ask for you to              be forward thinking and to give it a fair chance. The operation              of the system will be monitored to see any issues that need to              be ironed out and a full review of its operation will be undertaken              six months after its introduction. The club must continue to move              forward, using the tools and technology available to us and change              is part of the onward development of Yelverton Golf Club for the              benefit of its members."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]              Yours Sincerely,
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
 Chairman
              Yelverton Golf Club[/SIZE]


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## rosecott (Dec 6, 2014)

I fail to see any problem.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

One of the minimum requirements, for me, of joining a golf club is to be able to book a tee time. Sounds like your other system only suits people with plenty of time on their hands.


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## kozmos (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			One of the minimum requirements, for me, of joining a golf club is to be able to book a tee time. Sounds like your other system only suits people with plenty of time on their hands.
		
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To be fair 80% of the membership is retired


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

Can't see a problem , we only get 7 days ahead for general play booking and that causes no issues.


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## Hobbit (Dec 6, 2014)

Moved from a come when you like club, apart from comps, to one with a booking system early this year. Bliss! I can check up online before I leave work or home... no more waiting for an hour or more, or turning up only to return home.

A definite plus!


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

kozmos said:



			To be fair 80% of the membership is retired
		
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Sounds like the club desperately need to attract younger members before it goes bust. If they want to do that they need to put practices into place that suit working people.


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2014)

Seems thoroughly sensible.

Which would members sooner have? Managed tee times that bring in 10% extra revenue or 10% increase in Subscriptions!

Though it would seem to be a good idea to 'reserve' the occasional tee time for members who simply roll up, at least initially.


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

Our club is turn up and put your ball in the slide,unless it's comps then you book a tee time. 

I like it and it's all I've ever known I like the flexibility of it. Obviously I understand it wouldn't suit everyone and whet I get lessons has the computer in place and they like it. 

For clubs that use a computerised booking system can I ask,do a lot of the more favoured tee times get block booked early?


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## brendy (Dec 6, 2014)

The BRS system is widely used these days across the UK and Ire, it is much more organised and you can see before setting off if there are any block bookings that would prevent you getting teed off without having to wait. It also means you an book so it is in your favour too.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2014)

We have no booking system aside from drawn competition times. If it works and is a simple replacement for ball in shute I see no issue


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

Soft hands said:



			For clubs that use a computerised booking system can I ask,do a lot of the more favoured tee times get block booked early?
		
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I  believe no more than under any other booking system. Yes you can see the same names in the same time slots but under a turn up and play system i'm sure you'd soon learn that those same players turned up at those times to play thus taking the tee.


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## louise_a (Dec 6, 2014)

We introduced the BRS system this year, I think its great, instead of just turning up and finding I am stuck behind a couple of fourballs, I have a look on line in the morning, book a suitable time and then turn up and play.


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## kozmos (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Sounds like the club desperately need to attract younger members before it goes bust. If they want to do that they need to put practices into place that suit working people.
		
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I doubt we'll be going bust any time soon, we have a waiting list.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 6, 2014)

kozmos said:



			I doubt we'll be going bust any time soon, we have a waiting list.
		
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Ah, but time marches on!


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## DaveyG (Dec 6, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Moved from a come when you like club, apart from comps, to one with a booking system early this year. Bliss! I can check up online before I leave work or home... no more waiting for an hour or more, or turning up only to return home.

A definite plus!
		
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Me too... Even with avoiding the usual busy times it was always a hold your breath as you came round the corner at my old club


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## kozmos (Dec 6, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ah, but time marches on! 

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Very true  however earlier this year we also introduced a colt membership 25-35 which has attracted almost 80 new members :thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

Do you seriously want to plan your golf 3 weeks in advance at a private members club? I left my previous club for exactly this reason. All the prime times will get snapped up as soon as they go live. To get a time for a Saturday you have to be online refreshing your screen at 19:59 then grab one as soon as the server allows. If you leave it till 20:01 they have all gone.

Good luck with it  


Hayling have the right answer, book competitions and all other times are walk up and play. Works beautifully  :thup:


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## Soft hands (Dec 6, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			I  believe no more than under any other booking system. Yes you can see the same names in the same time slots but under a turn up and play system i'm sure you'd soon learn that those same players turned up at those times to play thus taking the tee.
		
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True id never thought about it like that.


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## Oxfordcomma (Dec 6, 2014)

I've moved this year from a club that has booked tee times to a club that has a chute (booked tee times for comps only) and I much prefer the chute. At my old place, the same groups would block book tee times every week, well in advance of knowing how many people were actually playing that day. So you would see 8 tee slots booked, and not be able to put yourself down. But turn up early to warm up and the tee would be empty because the group has turned out to be smaller that day. Lost slots for members, lost potential green fees for the club.

Yes, the same thing would happen with the big roll-ups at the new place, in that they go out at (say) 9am every Sunday. But because it's a true roll-up, I know a) to avoid that slot if I want to play with specific people or guests and b) I can always join in!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

Oxfordcomma said:



			I've moved this year from a club that has booked tee times to a club that has a chute (booked tee times for comps only) and I much prefer the chute. At my old place, the same groups would block book tee times every week, well in advance of knowing how many people were actually playing that day. So you would see 8 tee slots booked, and not be able to put yourself down. But turn up early to warm up and the tee would be empty because the group has turned out to be smaller that day. Lost slots for members, lost potential green fees for the club.

Yes, the same thing would happen with the big roll-ups at the new place, in that they go out at (say) 9am every Sunday. But because it's a true roll-up, I know a) to avoid that slot if I want to play with specific people or guests and b) I can always join in!
		
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Well said that man  :thup:


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## GB72 (Dec 6, 2014)

It would certainly not suit me. I like to play around 9.00 in the morning. With no tee booking I know that if I am up the club by 8.30 then I am always off by 9. With tee booking that is not guatanteed. I know that this is a selfish approach but I would rather know that I can pitch up at any time and be teeing off half an hour later than have a system where I may get to play when I want or I may not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Witnessed both styles and prefer the turn up and play but the tee booking is more suitable to other places.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Witnessed both styles and prefer the turn up and play but the tee booking is more suitable to other places.
		
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Agree. Turn up and play at a private members club, tee booking for the corporate type courses.


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

Oxfordcomma said:



			I've moved this year from a club that has booked tee times to a club that has a chute (booked tee times for comps only) and I much prefer the chute. At my old place, the same groups would block book tee times every week, well in advance of knowing how many people were actually playing that day. So you would see 8 tee slots booked, and not be able to put yourself down. But turn up early to warm up and the tee would be empty because the group has turned out to be smaller that day. Lost slots for members, lost potential green fees for the club.

Yes, the same thing would happen with the big roll-ups at the new place, in that they go out at (say) 9am every Sunday. But because it's a true roll-up, I know a) to avoid that slot if I want to play with specific people or guests and b) I can always join in!
		
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For our "Fiddle" on Weds and Fri we have to put our names down on the BRS but we all pitch up before the first tee time then draw partners, invariably there will be no shows so if you've not been able to get your name down you are still able to join in


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## kozmos (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Do you seriously want to plan your golf 3 weeks in advance at a private members club? I left my previous club for exactly this reason. All the prime times will get snapped up as soon as they go live. To get a time for a Saturday you have to be online refreshing your screen at 19:59 then grab one as soon as the server allows. If you leave it till 20:01 they have all gone.

Good luck with it  


Hayling have the right answer, book competitions and all other times are walk up and play. Works beautifully  :thup:
		
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No not really 

It's currently the same set up as hayling and works absolutely fine..


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## delc (Dec 6, 2014)

We have an on-line booking system at our club and it works just fine. We can only book 7 days in advance though. As long as you avoid the peak times between about 8 and 11 am, you can still normally walk onto the course and play. The booking system is great for those busy people who can only spare a limited amount of time to play golf and don't want to wait around for a ball to reach the bottom of a chute, or whatever.


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## duncan mackie (Dec 6, 2014)

Oxfordcomma said:



			I've moved this year from a club that has booked tee times to a club that has a chute (booked tee times for comps only) and I much prefer the chute. At my old place, the same groups would block book tee times every week, well in advance of knowing how many people were actually playing that day. So you would see 8 tee slots booked, and not be able to put yourself down. But turn up early to warm up and the tee would be empty because the group has turned out to be smaller that day. Lost slots for members, lost potential green fees for the club.

Yes, the same thing would happen with the big roll-ups at the new place, in that they go out at (say) 9am every Sunday. But because it's a true roll-up, I know a) to avoid that slot if I want to play with specific people or guests and b) I can always join in!
		
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good summary of the practical realities 

we have been through this and observed exactly this  

there is no simple an see to how to get two groups that wish to play the course at the same time every week can be accommodated  - but you do need to have appropriate penalties for those booking and not turning up (or cancel at all)


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Agree. Turn up and play at a private members club, tee booking for the corporate type courses.
		
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Spot on :thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			For our "Fiddle" on Weds and Fri we have to put our names down on the BRS but we all pitch up before the first tee time then draw partners, invariably there will be no shows so if you've not been able to get your name down you are still able to join in
		
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Yeah but what about the guy who has a 30 minute drive to the club who doesn't leave home because all the tee times are booked when he checks the sheet? If times are handed back 20 minutes before then that's no use to him.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

kozmos said:



			No not really 

It's currently the same set up as hayling and works absolutely fine..
		
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Good....so why do your committee want to change it?


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Yeah but what about the guy who has a 30 minute drive to the club who doesn't leave home because all the tee times are booked when he checks the sheet? If times are handed back 20 minutes before then that's no use to him.
		
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Is this a guy looking for a game by himself or by joining in ?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Is this a guy looking for a game by himself or by joining in ?
		
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It doesn't really matter if he is a single or a group. I've seen roll ups book 5 times on the sheet then hand a time back at the last minute because only 16 of the 20 names turn up. If that happens at the last minute and some guy has a 20-30 minute drive to the club he can't utilise that time.


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Yeah but what about the guy who has a 30 minute drive to the club who doesn't leave home because all the tee times are booked when he checks the sheet? If times are handed back 20 minutes before then that's no use to him.
		
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By the same token what about the guy who drives 30 minutes to find 40 " Fiddlers" waiting to go out followed by a society ? Quick check on line and he can plan his golf accordingly. 
We are private members club too.


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			It doesn't really matter if he is a single or a group. I've seen roll ups book 5 times on the sheet then hand a time back at the last minute because only 16 of the 20 names turn up. If that happens at the last minute and some guy has a 20-30 minute drive to the club he can't utilise that time.
		
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But if he's a member surely he'd be aware of the times that roll ups kick off so plans accordingly ?


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## kozmos (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Good....so why do your committee want to change it?
		
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So they can squeeze a few more pounds out of green fee's I guess.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 6, 2014)

Most private clubs I would exoect the members to know exactly when each "swindle" goes out 

Every day we have a swindle and people know when they go out 

New members get told about them and told they are welcome to join them


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			By the same token what about the guy who drives 30 minutes to find 40 " Fiddlers" waiting to go out followed by a society ? Quick check on line and he can plan his golf accordingly. 
We are private members club too.
		
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My club uses BRS and society times are booked out then all other times are available for members. Our fictional guy can check before he leaves home to see if there are members walk on times available. Typically our start sheet might be something like......

07:00 - 10:30  Members/guest times
10:30 - 11:30  Lapdancing club society
11:30 - 14:00  Members/guests times


etc etc


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

kozmos said:



			So they can squeeze a few more pounds out of green fee's I guess.
		
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That sounds a bit worrying to me. If you have full membership and a waiting list then it sounds like your club funds are being mis-managed


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## upsidedown (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			My club uses BRS and society times are booked out then all other times are available for members. Our fictional guy can check before he leaves home to see if there are members walk on times available. Typically our start sheet might be something like......

07:00 - 10:30  Members/guest times
10:30 - 11:30  Lapdancing club society
11:30 - 14:00  Members/guests times


etc etc
		
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So an amalgamation of the two systems within the BRS . Is there a lull in walk up members just before a BRS booking?


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## GB72 (Dec 6, 2014)

My only experience of tee booking was at Greetham Valley. Same organised group of retired gentleman were e on booking as soon as the tee times were released and in no time at all the Times between 8 and 10 at weekends were taken. All the people I knew there left for clubs where they could  pitch up and play. If you want to play at a set time and do not mind what time that is then booking is fine. If you want to play every week at the same time, especially a peek time, then booking systems can cause problems


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## Evesdad (Dec 6, 2014)

We use a bit of both at mine, booked slots for Tuesday's and Friday through to Sunday. Everything else is just turn up and play. I prefer it as with the time constraints a young family and work life brings I know when I'm playing at the weekend and plan accordingly. ALao the option of rocking up mid week if I'm free.


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## Cheifi0 (Dec 6, 2014)

They are introducing this next year at our place as welol.   Can't see a problem with it andoes should help with the flow of the course on busy days as we have 27 holes and 3 start points.


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## GB72 (Dec 6, 2014)

Cannot understand the need with 3 start points. We have the same and I have never had to wait for more than 1 group unless there is a particular 9 I want to play first


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## Wilson (Dec 6, 2014)

We had a conversation along these lines this morning, as the course was quiet but fully booked online - I have a split opinion as sometimes booking would work for me, and at other times the roll up would work.

I would think having a booking system, with a couple of roll-up slots each hour, would work perfectly, as if you've not been able to book, you can show up and should still be able to get on.

I think those places with a booking system should penalise those who book, but are no-shows.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 6, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			So an amalgamation of the two systems within the BRS . Is there a lull in walk up members just before a BRS booking?
		
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I played last Saturday and there were a couple of visitors booked in. They had to wait a few minutes (10 max) before they could get off to allow all the members a chance to start. But that is in the middle of winter with the shortest days and maximum demand for tee times, it's a links course so open for play all year and it was a lovely day. Personally, I don't think visitors should be able to book times at the weekend, especially at this time of year but that is an entirely different discussion.


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## richart (Dec 6, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Hayling have the right answer, book competitions and all other times are walk up and play. Works beautifully  :thup:
		
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 Same with us. Works fine so no need to change.


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## fundy (Dec 6, 2014)

We have a combination. Members only and no booking up until 11am, anyone can book a tee time from 11am onwards. Its sort of working, personally would prefer no booking at all as I rarely plan my games in advance, means I play the majority of golf between 10 and 11am these days


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## duncan mackie (Dec 7, 2014)

Wilson said:



			I would think having a booking system, with a couple of roll-up slots each hour, would work perfectly, as if you've not been able to book, you can show up and should still be able to get on.
		
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this is the worst solution

if the 'couple of slots' per hour are over subscribed you have to wait another hour - and anyone turning up to use those will then have to wait for the following hour etc etc

what evolves is a situation where people simply don't try and use these slots, for that reason, and then they go begging.

better (I hesitate to use the word best) solution is to have a couple of hours booked, then a roll up period of the same, then booking again. This way expectation is much more likely to be met and people still roll up as well as booking. Managing this through the shorter hours of winter, and the associated inclement weather, inevitably causes some problems but so does an all roll up or all booking system.

it also provides a more realistic fall back for those banned from booking for abusing the booking system! I completely agree, as posted, that this is necessary requirement with any booking system - membership gives rights to book and play; not to book an prevent others from playing by not turning up.


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## Cheifi0 (Dec 7, 2014)

GB72 said:



			Cannot understand the need with 3 start points. We have the same and I have never had to wait for more than 1 group unless there is a particular 9 I want to play first
		
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I am not sure I understand.  How many start points do you use and how does it work?


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## GB72 (Dec 7, 2014)

We have 3 start points so you can tee off on 1, 10 or 19 for a friendly round.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 7, 2014)

A booking system is only as good as it's default system. 20 tee times booked for single players and 4 no shows means  8 players on the course an hour.

I introduced an electronic booking system at a very busy Muni in the early 1990's.
There was a bit of a hoo haa to start with but things soon settled down.

Booking was 7 days in advance.
Course opened 6.30am in the summer and the first 30 minutes were bookable, one tee time, in person only.
By 7.00am most tee times for the following week were booked until 10.30am Phones bookings were taken 30 minutes after opening and after a further 30 minutes all tee time were full until around 3pm
We had a Â£10 default fee per tee time for any no show. Very seldom enforced. You could cancel up to 30 minutes before play.
The booking system was much relaxed and certainly filled up any quieter times.
Income and usage increased with the added bonus the the range and bar/food use increased substantially.


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2014)

On these tee time booking systems, do you see the members names and handicaps so you could add your name if they were say only a 3-ball and knew them or are you blind?


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			On these tee time booking systems, do you see the members names and handicaps so you could add your name if they were say only a 3-ball and knew them or are you blind?
		
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On ours you see the members name or guest but no other information. If theres a block booking (for a comp or a society the comp is detailed but not those in each time slot)

If theres a blank space in a group you are able to add to it if you choose


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## NWJocko (Dec 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			On these tee time booking systems, do you see the members names and handicaps so you could add your name if they were say only a 3-ball and knew them or are you blind?
		
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Don't think ours shows handicaps but has names in the slots on the brs system.

Works really well in my experience, although a lot depends on how it is customised for each club. Where there are problems with brs it isn't, in my view, the fault of the system itself more how it is implemented.

Very flexible and able to accommodate all needs


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## Fish (Dec 7, 2014)

fundy said:



			On ours you see the members name or guest but no other information. If theres a block booking (for a comp or a society the comp is detailed but not those in each time slot)

If theres a blank space in a group you are able to add to it if you choose
		
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NWJocko said:



			Don't think ours shows handicaps but has names in the slots on the brs system.

Works really well in my experience, although a lot depends on how it is customised for each club. Where there are problems with brs it isn't, in my view, the fault of the system itself more how it is implemented.

Very flexible and able to accommodate all needs
		
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At The Warwickshire who use the Intelligent Golf system, it just states "Booked" in the general play booking area which I'm uncomfortable with, if I could at least see the members names I could look them up in the handicap list but being blind I could end up adding my name to 3 young Cat1's having a knock and then an old chomper like me turns up, I don't like this lack of transparency!


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## fundy (Dec 7, 2014)

Fish said:



			At The Warwickshire who use the Intelligent Golf system, it just states "Booked" in the general play booking area which I'm uncomfortable with, if I could at least see the members names I could look them up in the handicap list but being blind I could end up adding my name to 3 young Cat1's having a knock and then an old chomper like me turns up, I don't like this lack of transparency!
		
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Plenty you could teach the young whippersnappers Fish  That or take a few quid off them getting a shot a hole lol


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## Cheifi0 (Dec 7, 2014)

GB72 said:



			We have 3 start points so you can tee off on 1, 10 or 19 for a friendly round.
		
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Ok read that wrong.  I think its on rare occasions that that there has been any issues.  I certainly haven't had any but apparently a couple of weekends it was that busy that there was a substantial wait. I can't see it hurting and just provides an good overlook of the course.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2014)

richart said:



			Same with us. Works fine so no need to change.
		
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Same here too. Very useful in the summer when you can just rock up after work as and when and go out without having to worry about getting a time booked. Excellent if you finish work early or are running a bit late


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## upsidedown (Dec 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Same here too. Very useful in the summer when you can just rock up after work as and when and go out without having to worry about getting a time booked. Excellent if you finish work early or are running a bit late
		
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No need to book in after 6 pm at ours . What I like about the system is I can check on my phone how busy the course is before deciding to do the 20 min drive to the club for times up to 6 pm  .


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## kozmos (Dec 7, 2014)

fundy said:



			On ours you see the members name or guest but no other information. If theres a block booking (for a comp or a society the comp is detailed but not those in each time slot)

If theres a blank space in a group you are able to add to it if you choose
		
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So what if you just want to play as a 2 or a 3ball, and don't wont some random joining you ?


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## upsidedown (Dec 7, 2014)

kozmos said:



			So what if you just want to play as a 2 or a 3ball, and don't wont some random joining you ?
		
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Just add "Guest" to your booking


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## Hobbit (Dec 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Same here too. Very useful in the summer when you can just rock up after work as and when and go out without having to worry about getting a time booked. Excellent if you finish work early or are running a bit late
		
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...and on occasion you make the effort to turn up, ad hoc, only to find the tee is full with x many groups. A booking system will give you the transparency to make a decision without a wasted journey. And with smart phones you can pretty much do it from anywhere in less than 2mins... as for it being a worry... if you're worrying about that sort of stuff...


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## kozmos (Dec 7, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Just add "Guest" to your booking
		
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:thup:


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 7, 2014)

Our club introduced on-line booking a year ago and it is far better than phoning up to book or just rocking up.

I can check on-line and book a time up to 7 days in advance and avoid being stuck behind half a dozen groups of four balls


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## wrighty1874 (Dec 7, 2014)

They use a booking system at the Warwickshire near me. People who join don't usually join the following year, when they realise they could end with their booking cancelled due to a society or corporate day. The club is renowned for shafting its members. Turn up and play for me.


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## Imurg (Dec 7, 2014)

wrighty1874 said:



			They use a booking system at the Warwickshire near me. People who join don't usually join the following year, when they realise they could end with their booking cancelled due to a society or corporate day. The club is renowned for shafting its members. Turn up and play for me.
		
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That speaks volumes about the club rather than the booking system.


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## Siren (Dec 7, 2014)

I dont see anything wrong with it.

Suits people who work shifts etc and may attract new members.

The only downside would be the roll up society's but if they have a block booking etc then happy days tbh.


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## ScienceBoy (Dec 8, 2014)

South Winch ran an online booking system that only allowed bookings 12 days in advance, stopped mass tee bookings.

I found I could usually turn up and play in evenings, just walk straight out to a clear tee from the pro shop. Weekend rounds we booked as early as possible online with very little issues, I got a game at my preferred time most weekends.

I much prefer a well run, organised online booking system over turn up and play.

This sounds like a good move overall, I think even private member clubs should consider booking for busy periods, I would really dislike the idea of turning up and not knowing when I might get to go out!


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## Slab (Dec 8, 2014)

Not quite sure how best to word this post without causing offense (which is certainly not my intent) 

I get the impression that if itâ€™s a members club then some think that the ability to turn up & play anytime is a requirement for their membership, dare I say it, almost a members right (understandable to a degree given some of the fees involved) 

Firstly am I being fair in what Iâ€™m saying and secondly if that approach to tee-times does not suit either the majority of the membership or the club itself (i.e unproductive periods where income could be generated if the 1st tee didnâ€™t have to be kept empty in case a member turns up) Is it not right for the club to insist members use some kind of reservation/booking system?

After all blocks for comps/group swindles etc can easily still be applied to keep these periods off the booking system!

What Iâ€™m also reading is some want the same approximate tee off time week in week out and can get to the club easily to make sure they get it (effectively doing exactly what they fear the online booking will do that takes the tee away from them)... but 'tough luck' anyone who canâ€™t just arrive hoping not to find 20, 30 or more lads waiting to go out 

This is the bit I donâ€™t want to cause offense... It reads like some members think that the club membership consists wholly of their 4-ball or their swindle and not several hundred other players or the club that should be making the most of the capacity available


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## Doh (Dec 8, 2014)

We have had the BRS system for some years now, at first I did not like it but I have to confess it does and works well. Gives the club lots of information how the course is used we can also control the number of visitors too.


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## guest100718 (Dec 8, 2014)

Whats not to like? i'm  abusy person and it matters that I can book a specific time.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 8, 2014)

G



drive4show said:



			Do you seriously want to plan your golf 3 weeks in advance at a private members club? I left my previous club for exactly this reason. All the prime times will get snapped up as soon as they go live. To get a time for a Saturday you have to be online refreshing your screen at 19:59 then grab one as soon as the server allows. If you leave it till 20:01 they have all gone.

Good luck with it  


Hayling have the right answer, book competitions and all other times are walk up and play. Works beautifully  :thup:
		
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This is the way I prefer it too. RAGC and Blackmoor both operate this policy, RAGC definately works and I'm not aware that it doesn't at Blackmoor, I haven't been there long but not had a problem so far and wouldn't want it changed.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 8, 2014)

wrighty1874 said:



			They use a booking system at the Warwickshire near me. People who join don't usually join the following year, when they realise they could end with their booking cancelled due to a society or corporate day. The club is renowned for shafting its members. Turn up and play for me.
		
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When I've booked as a visitor at The Warwickshire you could not do so until 7 days in advance unless you were a member.  Do they really take bookings for societies when members have booked the tee times.  And as there are 2 courses there can't/don;t they move members onto the other course at times?


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## drewster (Dec 8, 2014)

Don't see a problem with this and wish my club adopted the same policy but change is a swear word  !!!!!  The only problem i can envisage is that with 21 days advance bookings that people may not turn up for their tee time or simply forget it thus having a slot available that doesn't get taken !!!!


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## MendieGK (Dec 8, 2014)

brendy said:



			The BRS system is widely used these days across the UK and Ire, it is much more organised and you can see before setting off if there are any block bookings that would prevent you getting teed off without having to wait. It also means you an book so it is in your favour too.
		
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I agree with this. you can book up to 4 weeks in advance at our place. Means i can effectively plan my life plenty in advance. keeps the Mrs happy too


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 8, 2014)

My old club had a walk up and play system, my new one has an online booking system. The oldies at my previous club would rather give up the game than go to a BRS system, they are so stuck in their ways. However, having experienced both I have to say the booking system is so much better. You book, you know your time slot, end of story. No turning up at the course and discovering it is rammed. You check online, you ring the pro shop, you know where you stand. So simple, works well. 

It is the same as taking a long train journey. You can book in advance and guarantee a seat. You can turn up on the day, buy your ticket and maybe get a seat or maybe have to stand. Which do you prefer?


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## GB72 (Dec 8, 2014)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My old club had a walk up and play system, my new one has an online booking system. The oldies at my previous club would rather give up the game than go to a BRS system, they are so stuck in their ways. However, having experienced both I have to say the booking system is so much better. You book, you know your time slot, end of story. No turning up at the course and discovering it is rammed. You check online, you ring the pro shop, you know where you stand. So simple, works well. 

It is the same as taking a long train journey. You can book in advance and guarantee a seat. You can turn up on the day, buy your ticket and maybe get a seat or maybe have to stand. Which do you prefer?
		
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I can see both sides of the argument and quite like the train analogy. To keep that going, my problem is that I want to go on the early train every week, as do many other people. Under a booking system, unless I am quick off the mark, and work etc means that this can be an issue, the train I want may be fully booked and I have to work out whether I can still carry out the rest of my plans for the day if I want to take a later one. Without the booking system, I may have to hang around a bit but at least I know that if I am at the station early enough I will get on the train I want.


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

brs system is simply brilliant, why on earth would you want to wait around for a tee time when technology is there to stop this happening. you know roughly what time you will finish your round so if you have to be home for, family,work,watch sport or anything.. To people who think its not a good thing its the 21st century, humans knew exactly to the second what time Philae's landed on a comet which was launched 10 years ago and is millions of miles away. I think knowing what time your tee off it should be a no brainer.
To many dinosaurs in golf


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## GB72 (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			brs system is simply brilliant, why on earth would you want to wait around for a tee time when technology is there to stop this happening. you know roughly what time you will finish your round so if you have to be home for, family,work,watch sport or anything.. To people who think its not a good thing its the 21st century, humans knew exactly to the second what time Philae's landed on a comet which was launched 10 years ago and is millions of miles away. I think knowing what time your tee off it should be a no brainer.
To many dinosaurs in golf
		
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I disagree with the point made here. It is not the fact that I am a dinosaur, quite the opposite. What I do want to do is play golf around 9.00 in the morning at a weekend. With a booking system, if I am not quick off the mark then I cannot do that. Without one I just have to be prepared to turn up a bit early (and with 3 starting points there are rarely queues of more than a few minutes). One gives me a pretty solid guarantee of playing when I want every week, the other gives me a definite yes or no answer but my concern is how often I miss out on the time I want to play. Booking is fine if all you want is to know exactly when you will start and so roughly when you will finish and is great if the time that you play does not really matter. If, however, you want to get out at the same time every week, it does not help. 
This is not me being a dinosaur or ignoring technology, it is just me expressing my support for a system that suits my needs perfectly against a system that does not.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 8, 2014)

GB72 said:



			I disagree with the point made here. It is not the fact that I am a dinosaur, quite the opposite. What I do want to do is play golf around 9.00 in the morning at a weekend. With a booking system, if I am not quick off the mark then I cannot do that. Without one I just have to be prepared to turn up a bit early (and with 3 starting points there are rarely queues of more than a few minutes). One gives me a pretty solid guarantee of playing when I want every week, the other gives me a definite yes or no answer but my concern is how often I miss out on the time I want to play. Booking is fine if all you want is to know exactly when you will start and so roughly when you will finish and is great if the time that you play does not really matter. If, however, you want to get out at the same time every week, it does not help. 
This is not me being a dinosaur or ignoring technology, it is just me expressing my support for a system that suits my needs perfectly against a system that does not.
		
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I don't really understand this point. Unless the missing assumption is that not everyone who would book a 9.00am time is prepared to go down before 9.00 and queue? To me it just seems you're able to get the time you want without the risk of turning up at the club to find lots of folk already waiting ahead of you....

I think the "turn up and play" type of system greatly suits those that live locally to the club but is less useful for those from further away.


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## GB72 (Dec 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't really understand this point. Unless the missing assumption is that not everyone who would book a 9.00am time is prepared to go down before 9.00 and queue? To me it just seems you're able to get the time you want without the risk of turning up at the club to find lots of folk already waiting ahead of you....

I think the "turn up and play" type of system greatly suits those that live locally to the club but is less useful for those from further away.
		
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You may have a point. I think part of my paranoia about tee booking systems is the experience that my brother and my old playing partners had at Greetham Valley when it was introduced. The same group of people were on the system as soon as the weekend tee times opened up and had everything booked between 8 and 10 within minutes. Not much use for a group who wanted a friendly round in the same 4 ball each week, one off whom had to be off the course by 1.30 latest.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 8, 2014)

GB72 said:



			You may have a point. I think part of my paranoia about tee booking systems is the experience that my brother and my old playing partners had at Greetham Valley when it was introduced. The same group of people were on the system as soon as the weekend tee times opened up and had everything booked between 8 and 10 within minutes. Not much use for a group who wanted a friendly round in the same 4 ball each week, one off whom had to be off the course by 1.30 latest.
		
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Yeah, that would be a pain. I think it's down to the administration of the system but, on the face of it, everyone has the same chance of logging in to book a time.


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## Slab (Dec 8, 2014)

GB72 said:



			You may have a point. I think part of my paranoia about tee booking systems is the experience that my brother and my old playing partners had at Greetham Valley when it was introduced. *The same group of people were on the system as soon as the weekend tee times opened up and had everything booked between 8 and 10 within minutes.* Not much use for a group who wanted a friendly round in the same 4 ball each week, one off whom had to be off the course by 1.30 latest.
		
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But isn't this you in reverse!

No booking system: Guy drives 45 minutes + to get there every Saturday only to find that GB72 and all the local boys have got in as soon as the gates opened & snaffled the 1st tee for the next half hour, so he's not teeing off anytime soon!

I guess it helps with multiple start points when players can settle on playing the course in the wrong order (or not as was designed), but we've all heard folks on here who don't want to play of yellows because its not how the course was designed so I guess to them playing it in reverse leaves a similar lesser experience


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## GB72 (Dec 8, 2014)

Slab said:



			But isn't this you in reverse!

No booking system: Guy drives 45 minutes + to get there every Saturday only to find that GB72 and all the local boys have got in as soon as the gates opened & snaffled the 1st tee for the next half hour, so he's not teeing off anytime soon!

I guess it helps with multiple start points when players can settle on playing the course in the wrong order (or not as was designed), but we've all heard folks on here who don't want to play of yellows because its not how the course was designed so I guess to them playing it in reverse leaves a similar lesser experience
		
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The argument is that if he wants to get off at a certain time then he can turn up a bit earlier to get on when he wants but if there is a booking system it does not matter how early he turns up, he is still not getting on until the allotted time. Now if it does not matter what time you play then that is fine, tee booking works or, in the absence of that, turn up after the 8-10 peak times. If, however, it is important that you play before a certain time then turning up early to make sure of it beats not being able to book a suitable time and not being able to play. 

It really is horses for courses and both have plus or minus points. It is just that, for me, booking systems have more negatives than positives and that has been the case for my current course where I am 2 minutes down the road or previous courses where I have been 20 minutes or more away.


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## Slab (Dec 8, 2014)

GB72 said:



			The argument is that if he wants to get off at a certain time then he can turn up a bit earlier to get on when he wants but if there is a booking system it does not matter how early he turns up, he is still not getting on until the allotted time. Now if it does not matter what time you play then that is fine, tee booking works or, in the absence of that, turn up after the 8-10 peak times. If, however, it is important that you play before a certain time then turning up early to make sure of it beats not being able to book a suitable time and not being able to play. 

It really is horses for courses and both have plus or minus points. It is just that, for me, booking systems have more negatives than positives and that has been the case for my current course where I am 2 minutes down the road or previous courses where I have been 20 minutes or more away.
		
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I can see benefits to individuals & their own circumstances for both systems

I recall turning up to a ball-in-chute arrangement only to see a dozen balls lined up and not being able to wait nearly 2 hours I had to leave

Also benefited from just arriving from one waterlogged closed course where I had a timed booking to its near neighbour and going straight out with no booking at all 

On balance though a 'timed booking' beats a 'hurry up and wait'


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 8, 2014)

if you can't get on-line then surely you can either phone or go in and get someone at the club to book a time for you.

To me it seems fairer to all members and opens up particular times that are always hogged by the same crowd

Unless I'm missing something here?


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 8, 2014)

Gg



SAPCOR1 said:



			if you can't get on-line then surely you can either phone or go in and get someone at the club to book a time for you.

To me it seems fairer to all members and opens up particular times that are always hogged by the same crowd

Unless I'm missing something here?
		
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You're missing the fact that some of us who play at clubs with no booking system don't have a problem and don't see the point of having one. Of course, neither way is wrong, it's just preference.


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

GB72 said:



			I disagree with the point made here. It is not the fact that I am a dinosaur, quite the opposite. What I do want to do is play golf around 9.00 in the morning at a weekend. With a booking system, if I am not quick off the mark then I cannot do that. Without one I just have to be prepared to turn up a bit early (and with 3 starting points there are rarely queues of more than a few minutes). One gives me a pretty solid guarantee of playing when I want every week, the other gives me a definite yes or no answer but my concern is how often I miss out on the time I want to play. Booking is fine if all you want is to know exactly when you will start and so roughly when you will finish and is great if the time that you play does not really matter. If, however, you want to get out at the same time every week, it does not help. 
This is not me being a dinosaur or ignoring technology, it is just me expressing my support for a system that suits my needs perfectly against a system that does not.
		
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If you want to play at 9am and there is no brs and your not quick off the mark then you still will not be playing at 9am you really made a good case against your own point of view. Surely its a lot easier to be sharp on booking tee online than getting up the golf club before sunrise. Also gives other people a chance to play at 9am its only fair. If im working at 3pm afternoons on saturday i might be running the risk of not completing my round if i do not have a tee booked, then i will not enter the comp so the club will lose out if there is lots of people in similar situation. BRS is something that is there to make life easier. My simply advise is stop moaning and be sharp in booking you and your gang in on brs. Just out of curiosity do you use a Persimmon wood ??


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## Lanark_Golfer (Dec 8, 2014)

I have had recent experience of both systems and the online booking shades it for me. I have travelled to the course straight from work for a knock at my previous course for a quick knock, only to find 20 guys all waiting to go out. Now with the booking system, I just log in before I set off and make sure there is a space before a wasted journey. On the other hand I have been frustrated if I have forgot to book a time and all the slots are taken on medal day, although there is a reserve system that slots you straight into any cancellations within your selected timeframe and I've never missed out on a game yet


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			I have had recent experience of both systems and the online booking shades it for me. I have travelled to the course straight from work for a knock at my previous course for a quick knock, only to find 20 guys all waiting to go out. Now with the booking system, I just log in before I set off and make sure there is a space before a wasted journey. On the other hand I have been frustrated if I have forgot to book a time and all the slots are taken on medal day, although there is a reserve system that slots you straight into any cancellations within your selected timeframe and I've never missed out on a game yet 

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Exactly my point life with BRS is so much easier


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Gg

You're missing the fact that some of us who play at clubs with no booking system don't have a problem and don't see the point of having one. Of course, neither way is wrong, it's just preference.
		
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But that is not what this post is about, it is about moving to an on-line system.

From someone who's club has gone on-line it is a fairer and easier way to get a time booked or to tactically book your time away from peak periods


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 8, 2014)

N



SAPCOR1 said:



			But that is not what this post is about, it is about moving to an on-line system.

From someone who's club has gone on-line it is a fairer and easier way to get a time booked or to tactically book your time away from peak periods
		
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But if the membership are happy with not having a booking system, who is it fairer to?


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			Exactly my point life with BRS is so much easier
		
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When do your Saturday tee times become available to book online?


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			N

But if the membership are happy with not having a booking system, who is it fairer to?
		
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The club itself surely as it is far more efficient, helps with forward planning and potentially generate more revenue from visitors.

However if the membership vote against it by majority then I think that is fair.  Surely the membership would be asked and advised before any such changes were made?  

We were given plenty of notice and it works really well in my experience.  You can of course still roll up and if there is a slot free, book it and the pro will log it onto the system


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 8, 2014)

To be honest, we have booked times for comps but aside for that, on non-comp weekends, there are two or three roll ups that go out at set times and members are aware of these and can book their own time to fit between them or go out after. Each and every one of these would also welcome a new member into the fold and therefore give them a guaranteed tee time every week any way. We also have two tees (1st and 10th) and so it's pretty easy to get off and going


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be honest, we have booked times for comps but aside for that, on non-comp weekends, there are two or three roll ups that go out at set times and members are aware of these and can book their own time to fit between them or go out after. Each and every one of these would also welcome a new member into the fold and therefore give them a guaranteed tee time every week any way. We also have two tees (1st and 10th) and so it's pretty easy to get off and going
		
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Sounds like these groups have it sown up. Do they really welcome ANY new member? Is it clear to new members they'd be welcome or would they need to make the approach themselves? What if you want to play at that time but aren't comfortable with that particular clique?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

BRS is brilliant......if you want to plan your golf 3 weeks in advance.

What if you wake up on a sunny Saturday morning and your mate texts you asking if you fancy a game? A single player can probably find a gap but a 2/3/4ball is going to struggle


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			The club itself surely as it is far more efficient, helps with forward planning and potentially generate more revenue from visitors.
		
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Why should a private members club be run for the benefit of visitors? I would rather pay a bit more on my annual subs and be able to get on the course when I want than pay less and not be able to get on at all.


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## wrighty1874 (Dec 8, 2014)

Two of my mates left for that very reason and another of my mates is leaving due to the same problem.



Hacker Khan said:



			When I've booked as a visitor at The Warwickshire you could not do so until 7 days in advance unless you were a member.  Do they really take bookings for societies when members have booked the tee times.  And as there are 2 courses there can't/don;t they move members onto the other course at times?
		
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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 8, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Why should a private members club be run for the benefit of visitors? I would rather pay a bit more on my annual subs and be able to get on the course when I want than pay less and not be able to get on at all.
		
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Not the benefit of visitors but benefit for the club itself, as an example.

Just because player A has always tee'd off at 9am every Saturday doesn't mean that he/she should always be able to play at 9am every Saturday.  Player B deserves a look in


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			Not the benefit of visitors but benefit for the club itself, as an example.

Just because player A has always tee'd off at 9am every Saturday doesn't mean that he/she should always be able to play at 9am every Saturday.  Player B deserves a look in
		
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With a turn up and play policy player B gets a look in  :thup:

Let's talk real world here......

I've been a member of 2 private clubs that don't use start sheets, I can't remember ever having to wait longer than 30 minutes to tee off, even on a Saturday morning. What happens is people soon realise the busy and quiet times and plan their golf accordingly.


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

lets just all agree life is easier with brs, more clubs use it than dont in my area so must be more than just me thinking its really good thing. 30 people on the tee sat,sun morning really is the dark ages. If my club stop brs i will leave straight away and join a club that runs BRS even if its in the middle of the season


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			lets just all agree life is easier with brs, more clubs use it than dont in my area so must be more than just me thinking its really good thing. 30 people on the tee sat,sun morning really is the dark ages.
		
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No I don't think we do agree BRS is easier.


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

drive4show said:



			No I don't think we do agree BRS is easier.
		
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so you like standing around waiting?? what else do you do for hobby wait in A&E for fun
you have 4k posts surley booking a tee on brs is not a problem for someone that spends lots of time online or am i missing something


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			so you like standing around waiting?? what else do you do for hobby wait in A&E for fun
		
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15 mins on the 1st tee isn't the end of the world.


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

15 mins on good day or 0 mins just book in easy

Would you go to doctors without an appointment and wait around no, so what is the point in waiting on 1st tee the technology is there so lets use it and enjoy digital age


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			15 mins on good day or 0 mins just book in easy

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At 3pm when you wanted to play at 9am but the start sheet was full


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## fundy (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			so you like standing around waiting?? what else do you do for hobby wait in A&E for fun
you have 4k posts surley booking a tee on brs is not a problem for someone that spends lots of time online or am i missing something 

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why cant you accept that what suits you isnt necessarily what suits other people and that they may prefer an alternative? are you really that arrogant that whats right for you is right for everyone?


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

drive4show said:



			At 3pm when you wanted to play at 9am but the start sheet was full  

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Well all i can say is book in earlier on BRS Early bird catches the worm


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## markgs (Dec 8, 2014)

fundy said:



			why cant you accept that what suits you isnt necessarily what suits other people and that they may prefer an alternative? are you really that arrogant that whats right for you is right for everyone?
		
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Its called organization


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			Well all i can say is book in earlier on BRS Early bird catches the worm
		
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And that is exactly the problem. People book all the best times weeks in advance as soon as the system goes live. What if your wife tells you that you can't play golf on a certain Saturday because something else is happening then the plan changes the Friday before? Good luck trying to get a Saturday morning start time


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			lets just all agree life is easier with brs, more clubs use it than dont in my area so must be more than just me thinking its really good thing. 30 people on the tee sat,sun morning really is the dark ages. If my club stop brs i will leave straight away and join a club that runs BRS even if its in the middle of the season
		
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Tee booking systems will suit some courses but won't suit others - certainly wouldn't make life easier at ours

Swindles are the life of the weekends - people turn up wait for their turn and go out and play - no need for a tee booking system.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 8, 2014)

markgs said:



			15 mins on good day or 0 mins just book in easy

Would you go to doctors without an appointment and wait around no, so what is the point in waiting on 1st tee the technology is there so lets use it and enjoy digital age
		
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Haha brilliant! How often have you tried to get a doctor's appt and had to wait weeks, when it comes around you are better and no longer need it?


And it just so happens that my doctor has open surgery times where I can queue up and see him when it suits me


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## Slab (Dec 9, 2014)

On both threads it seems to be primarily the weekend morning roll ups that folks think would be affected by using/not using a booking system 
Although with examples of 20-30 players in roll ups we're talking about maybe 5% of the membership and these guys are surely not really the prime concern when considering a booking system (despite them controlling the prime tee off times) 

Ultimately though a club will never be in a position maximize its revenue without a booking tool of some kind (& I get that this doesn't matter to some clubs or their members)

The members will choose whatever system is in their best interests as individuals


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## Smiffy (Dec 9, 2014)

Highwoods did not have an on-line booking system. I lost count of the number of times I went up there for a game and had to sit around in the bar for up to an hour waiting for a tee slot. I left.
Cooden has an online booking system. I already know that I am teeing off at 11.22 next Wednesday. What's not to like??? I'm staying.


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## markgs (Dec 9, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Highwoods did not have an on-line booking system. I lost count of the number of times I went up there for a game and had to sit around in the bar for up to an hour waiting for a tee slot. I left.
Cooden has an online booking system. I already know that I am teeing off at 11.22 next Wednesday. What's not to like??? I'm staying.


Click to expand...

Its perfect to me knowing in advance. BRS is growing for a reason and is better for club revenue.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Sounds like these groups have it sown up. Do they really welcome ANY new member? Is it clear to new members they'd be welcome or would they need to make the approach themselves? What if you want to play at that time but aren't comfortable with that particular clique?
		
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I'll answer this. There is no clique. Anyone can play. I have personally told the pro and secretary to get new members to just turn up and ask for me or give me a call if they want to play. Shortly before I moved I even re-arranged our groups to accommodate two new members I met in the car park on the way to the first tee. Also, if people arrive at the tee and want to play on their own, we let them to the front of the queue.

Not having tee bookings works well if the members make it work and if it wasn't working, there would be members calling for a change. A few years ago the committee  raised the tee booking question and the members voted a unanimous "No". In fact, it is seen by the club as one of the positives of membership.


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## markgs (Dec 9, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I'll answer this. There is no clique. Anyone can play. I have personally told the pro and secretary to get new members to just turn up and ask for me or give me a call if they want to play. Shortly before I moved I even re-arranged our groups to accommodate two new members I met in the car park on the way to the first tee. Also, if people arrive at the tee and want to play on their own, we let them to the front of the queue.

Not having tee bookings works well if the members make it work and if it wasn't working, there would be members calling for a change. A few years ago the committee  raised the tee booking question and the members voted a unanimous "No". In fact, it is seen by the club as one of the positives of membership.
		
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Its good for groups of 30 people that play first out every sat/Sunday that's about it. If you want new members let give them all a chance to book in your holy tee time. There are a lot more members in a golf club than your group. My club uses it work we do have a group that moan but who give a jack let um moan they only play 7 days a week


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## guest100718 (Dec 9, 2014)

A booking system can only be a good thing really, most clubs seem to have one these days. We can book 21 days in advance and during the winter months when the days are short  you do have to be quick if you want an early tee time. In the summer it no big deal, plenty of time to go around.

I cant see it being any different anywhere at this time of year, i'd rather be on the ball with the booking system then have to turn up extra early just to get the time i want.


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## Spuddy (Dec 9, 2014)

We use BRS but tee times on a (non balloted comp) Saturday morning are done on a first come first serve at the pro shop on the day.  This works pretty well with everyone given a chance for a time despite there being 3 swindles that go out between 8 and 10.  My group of about 16-20 aim for 9am-9.24 but if someone has got in early and booked a time within that block then they will be invited to take the 9am slot if they wish which usually suits them well.  I dont think we've had many problems despite being a busy club.


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## kozmos (Dec 9, 2014)

(Quote SAPCOR1) "However if the membership vote against it by majority then I think that is fair.  Surely the membership would be asked and advised before any such changes were made? " 

I think this is why there is a resistance gathering against the idea, normally any major changes within the club are discussed at the AGMs etc and members are given the chance to vote.. this new system was decided by the committee only, and the members were told what was going to happen..


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## kozmos (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			With a turn up and play policy player B gets a look in  :thup:

Let's talk real world here......

I've been a member of 2 private clubs that don't use start sheets, I can't remember ever having to wait longer than 30 minutes to tee off, even on a Saturday morning. What happens is people soon realise the busy and quiet times and plan their golf accordingly.
		
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30 minutes wait gives time for a chip and a putt, so is not a problem for the majority I'm guessing..


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 9, 2014)

J



kozmos said:



			(Quote SAPCOR1) "However if the membership vote against it by majority then I think that is fair.  Surely the membership would be asked and advised before any such changes were made? " 

I think this is why there is a resistance gathering against the idea, normally any major changes within the club are discussed at the AGMs etc and members are given the chance to vote.. this new system was decided by the committee only, and the members were told what was going to happen..
		
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That's a pity and I can understand why there has been a resistance to it.  The committee should have taken time to outline their plans and put forward the benefits, not the features, of an on-line booking system.


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## kozmos (Dec 9, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			J

That's a pity and I can understand why there has been a resistance to it.  The committee should have taken time to outline their plans and put forward the benefits, not the features, of an on-line booking system.
		
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I think they realise they went about it in the wrong way now, but with some of the ideas that have been discussed in this thread, IMO if done properly.. this system could/can work at our club given the right approach.. 
Custom (on-line booking system) fitting is required here me thinks


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			A booking system can only be a good thing really, most clubs seem to have one these days. We can book 21 days in advance and during the winter months when the days are short  you do have to be quick if you want an early tee time. *In the summer it no big deal, plenty of time to go around.
*
I cant see it being any different anywhere at this time of year, i'd rather be on the ball with the booking system then have to turn up extra early just to get the time i want.
		
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So why do you need a booking system then?


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## guest100718 (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			So why do you need a booking system then?
		
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Er... well no point having it for half a year now is there Sherlock, the point being that you don't need to be quite as quick off the mark to book a tee time in the summer months. 

Lots of clubs have a booking system. It seem to me that it just one more thing along with long socks that stuffy private clubs feel separate them from everyone else.


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## Wildrover (Dec 9, 2014)

I'm currently a member at a club with no booking system having been at one a few years ago that operated a BRS type system. Quite frankly I hated the booking system with a passion, no last minute "fancy a few holes" type rounds, if you weren't sat at your laptop the moment the weekend times became free then forget it. I loved the course but could never get on it.
Compare that to now, I can arrive on a Saturday morning, once all our 4 ball has arrived we book in, have a coffee, quick chip & putt then straight out. In the 10 or so years I have been a member I have never failed to get out and never had to wait more than half an hour. We have fiddle type roll ups on sat/sun mornings like any club, they welcome anyone but they don't have tee sewn up, they do the same thing we do. 
I would welcome BRS as much as I would Nigel Farage as the next PM, so no MarkGS, I don't agree that BRS suits everyone and that does not make me a dinosaur. We have 850 members of all ages and the vast majority want to stay exactly as we are thank you. If you want to book your round three weeks in advance then be my guest but don't force it on us.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Er... well no point having it for half a year now is there Sherlock, the point being that you don't need to be quite as quick off the mark to book a tee time in the summer months. 

Lots of clubs have a booking system. It seem to me that it just one more thing along with long socks that stuffy private clubs feel separate them from everyone else.
		
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OK...so why just use it for the few Saturdays in winter when the course is particularly busy?




Wildrover said:



			I'm currently a member at a club with no booking system having been at one a few years ago that operated a BRS type system. Quite frankly I hated the booking system with a passion, no last minute "fancy a few holes" type rounds, if you weren't sat at your laptop the moment the weekend times became free then forget it. I loved the course but could never get on it.
Compare that to now, I can arrive on a Saturday morning, once all our 4 ball has arrived we book in, have a coffee, quick chip & putt then straight out. In the 10 or so years I have been a member I have never failed to get out and never had to wait more than half an hour. We have fiddle type roll ups on sat/sun mornings like any club, they welcome anyone but they don't have tee sewn up, they do the same thing we do. 
I would welcome BRS as much as I would Nigel Farage as the next PM, so no MarkGS, I don't agree that BRS suits everyone and that does not make me a dinosaur. We have 850 members of all ages and the vast majority want to stay exactly as we are thank you. If you want to book your round three weeks in advance then be my guest but don't force it on us.
		
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Buy this man a pint!!  :thup:


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## guest100718 (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			OK...so why just use it for the few Saturdays in winter when the course is particularly busy?


Its a paid for service run by BRS, I doubt they do "a few Saturdays in winter" option. But I and other are happy with a booking system, as are you without one so its all good really.
		
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## Wildrover (Dec 9, 2014)

Buy this man a pint!!  :thup:[/QUOTE]

Thanks, lager please:cheers:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Its a paid for service run by BRS, I doubt they do "a few Saturdays in winter" option. But I and other are happy with a booking system, as are you without one so its all good really.
		
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Once you have bought the software it is customisable to each club's individual requirements. You can set it up to make whatever times you want bookable or not. 

I just don't understand why you would want it when you say there isn't a problem with tee times at your club. Out of interest, is your club private or proprietary?


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

Can't stand booking systems. I don't plan my golf weeks in advance, and want to be able to decide at short notice if I want a game. Play in the roll up, arrange a game with mates, or just turn up knowing I will be able to get a game with other members. Longest I have ever waited for a game is half an hour, and that has been once in six years. As a member I expect to be able to play at a time that suits me, preferably in the morning, and not try and get a game and find the first tee time available is mid afternoon.


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## guest100718 (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Once you have bought the software it is customisable to each club's individual requirements. You can set it up to make whatever times you want bookable or not. 

I just don't understand why you would want it when you say there isn't a problem with tee times at your club. Out of interest, is your club private or proprietary?
		
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BRS is a company that runs an online booking sytem, I assume its all online, no customer download.

http://www.brsgolf.com/googlemapire.0.html thats a lot of users -- and that's just BRS. plenty will have their own, from Excel to other online systems

Our club is owned by an individual.

I only said there is less pressure to book in the summer, I don't mind teeing off between 7:15 to 8:15.  In the winter the first tee time is 8:04, so its a bit of a scramble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

Again BRS will suit some courses but not all of them

Our course works perfectly well without a booking system


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## markgs (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again BRS will suit some courses but not all of them

Our course works perfectly well without a booking system
		
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But would work even better with one


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again BRS will suit some courses but not all of them

Our course works *perfectly well* without a booking system
		
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markgs said:



			But would work even better with one
		
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Which bit of perfectly well don't you understand?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

markgs said:



			But would work even better with one
		
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No it wouldn't


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## JamesR (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No it wouldn't
		
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Oh yes it would!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

JamesR said:



			Oh yes it would!
		
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How can you say that? Phil has already said his club doesn't have any problems.


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## guest100718 (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			How can you say that? Phil has already said his club doesn't have any problems.
		
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woooooooooooooooosh


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			woooooooooooooooosh
		
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Forgive my ignorance, not sure what the above comment means. Can you explain please?


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## JamesR (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			How can you say that? Phil has already said his club doesn't have any problems.
		
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Pantomime season Old boy


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## guest100718 (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Forgive my ignorance, not sure what the above comment means. Can you explain please?
		
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No sorry, I can't tell you. This thread is just turning into a pantomime


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## JamesR (Dec 9, 2014)

Aside form the hilarity of Widow Twanky, Buttons et al, I like the booking system at my place, in fact I've never been anywhere without one.
You don't have to be booked in to pplay, you can just turn up and hope there's a gap.
I can check ahead if the course is busy and decide whether to play or practice based on that.
The comp's can be booked a week in advance and you can see if society or outside competitions are booked in on certain future days.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			No sorry, I can't tell you. This thread is just turning into a pantomime
		
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Now that wouldn't be because you just made a stupid comment that you can't justify by any chance?


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## guest100718 (Dec 9, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Now that wouldn't be because you just made a stupid comment that you can't justify by any chance?
		
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Er... am I being tricked... or do you really not get it....


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Er... am I being tricked... or do you really not get it....
		
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No sorry, really didn't get it...please explain


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## markgs (Dec 9, 2014)

This thread is so funny


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

markgs said:



			This thread is so funny
		
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Oh no it isn't!


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			Can't stand booking systems. I don't plan my golf weeks in advance, and want to be able to decide at short notice if I want a game. Play in the roll up, arrange a game with mates, or just turn up knowing I will be able to get a game with other members. Longest I have ever waited for a game is half an hour, and that has been once in six years. As a member I expect to be able to play at a time that suits me, preferably in the morning, and not try and get a game and find the first tee time available is mid afternoon.

Click to expand...

Doesn't the last sentence exemplify what an on-line booking system is?


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			Doesn't the last sentence exemplify what an on-line booking system is?
		
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 A load of old rubbish.:thup: All the morning times have been booked, so no game for me. Turning up for a game Saturday morning without booked team times I always get a game.:whoo:


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			A load of old rubbish.:thup: All the morning times have been booked, so no game for me. Turning up for a game Saturday morning without booked team times I always get a game.:whoo:
		
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BUt why would that change with an online booking system? If 100 people want to play on saturday morning, not having a system could mean they all turn up at 9, and the latest of them get out at 12 (or whenever).

With an online system, they turn up throughout the morning and go off whenever. Why would an online system change those 100 people into 200, meaning you can't get off until 3pm?

(numbers made up. I have no idea how long it would take 100 people to tee off)


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## upsidedown (Dec 9, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			(numbers made up. I have no idea how long it would take 100 people to tee off)
		
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Takes 2 and a half hours at ours


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			BUt why would that change with an online booking system? If 100 people want to play on saturday morning, not having a system could mean they all turn up at 9, and the latest of them get out at 12 (or whenever).

With an online system, they turn up throughout the morning and go off whenever. Why would an online system change those 100 people into 200, meaning you can't get off until 3pm?

(numbers made up. I have no idea how long it would take 100 people to tee off)
		
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 Everyone does't turn up at the same time though, and if I turn up at 10.00, I will get off by 10.15 at the very latest. Booked tee times usually mean great chunks of the day are taken.

Our system works as there are very rarely any queues, I can play at the weekend when I want to, or join the roll up (swindle) and we can use two tees if busy. Not sure how it all comes together. Pixie dust ? In the summer we can have 30 plus in the roll up. That wouldn't work with a booked tee system, and roll ups are a huge part of my Club. We like to mix in, and not just play in the same small groups all the time.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

markgs said:



			Its good for groups of 30 people that play first out every sat/Sunday that's about it. If you want new members let give them all a chance to book in your holy tee time. There are a lot more members in a golf club than your group. My club uses it work we do have a group that moan but who give a jack let um moan they only play 7 days a week
		
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Did you actually read any of the post you responded to?

Both RAGC & Blackmoor don't have booking systems, and both are recruiting a new members quite readily. RAGC'S membership is now almost full.

You like having a booking system, that's fine, no issue with that but what gives you the right to decide on what is best for other clubs?


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## upsidedown (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			In the summer we can have 30 plus in the roll up. That wouldn't work with a booked tee system, and roll ups are a huge part of my Club. We like to mix in, and not just play in the same small groups all the time.
		
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We too have 30 plus in our fiddle on Weds and Friday and we operate BRS . No issues that I know off.


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			We too have 30 plus in our fiddle on Weds and Friday and we operate BRS . No issues that I know off.
		
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We have that at the weekend. How would you get the tee times ? You need 8 slots together which I would imagine would be difficult? Also golfers turn up for roll ups often at the last minute. If the weather is good, much bigger turn out, so how do you know how many tee times to book ?


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## upsidedown (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			We have that at the weekend. How would you get the tee times ? You need 8 slots together which I would imagine would be difficult? Also golfers turn up for roll ups often at the last minute. If the weather is good, much bigger turn out, so how do you know how many tee times to book ?
		
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As far as I'm aware no roll ups at weekends so cant comment . For our Weds and Friday you have to book yourself in, members know when those times are and are flexible ( you get to recognise the names ) New members are encouraged to play at least once in the fiddle as great way to get to know folks, they get support from the Captains and the Pro.

We don't always get 8 consecutive times so the organiser makes it know that we accommodate those when he makes the draw.

It might sound unwieldy but it works well. Even if someone hasn't not got their name down never seen anyone not get a game . WE tend to go off as group in front is out of range so manufacture extra tee time by being ahead of the normal 8 minute slots


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2014)

markgs said:



			Its good for groups of 30 people that play first out every sat/Sunday that's about it. If you want new members let give them all a chance to book in your holy tee time. There are a lot more members in a golf club than your group. My club uses it work we do have a group that moan but who give a jack let um moan they only play 7 days a week
		
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We do let new members in. Just ask Ads749r himself. Been warmly welcomed into the Saturday and Sunday groups with ease and he also plays with some of the old boys. As a pup himself, you'd have thought this one in particular may have been fussy but, no, I can honestly say to the best of my knowledge all new members are told about the roll up groups as part of their introduction and that all of these have made new members welcome.

What you fail to recognise, is that it also gives new members a guaranteed game every week, introduces them to other members. The membership knows when these groups go out, and we publish on the members part of the website so they know when it's likely to be busy. They still have the option of going off the 10th. It was brought up at the AGM a few years back and the membership voted overwhelmingly no to introduce any booking system so there's clearly a firm feeling against


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			A load of old rubbish.:thup: All the morning times have been booked, so no game for me. Turning up for a game Saturday morning without booked team times I always get a game.:whoo:
		
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So does that not mean that your course is full up with a booking system and has spare capacity without one?


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			So does that not mean that your course is full up with a booking system and has spare capacity without one?
		
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No everyone just shifts their tee time by a few minutes to accommodate me.:thup: 100 plus golfers all booked in from 8.00 until 12.00, and I want to play at 10.00 I don't get a game. 100 plus golfers turn up through the morning, I want to play at 10.00, perhaps wait a few minutes, and I get a game.:whoo: For some reason at my Club all the golfers that want to play in the morning don't all turn up at the same time.oo:


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

Without calling anyone a liar because I'm sure everything posted is an honest and sincere opinion, I very much doubt that ALL new members are made aware of and welcomed into many of these roll ups.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

They certainly are at our place - organisers of the roll ups go to welcome meetings and also have their names given to new members so they can get in touch 

Some of the organisers actively phone new members to invite them to join if they wish


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They certainly are at our place - organisers of the roll ups go to welcome meetings and also have their names given to new members so they can get in touch 

Some of the organisers actively phone new members to invite them to join if they wish
		
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Including women and juniors?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Including women and juniors?
		
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The ladies Prob even more so by the ladies section and the juniors have their weekly games between them 

Ladies at our place play on a Tuesday and juniors can't play before a certain time at weekend.


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			A load of old rubbish.:thup: All the morning times have been booked, so no game for me. Turning up for a game Saturday morning without booked team times I always get a game.:whoo:
		
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So basically you'd be miffed that you can't get the time you always want because another member has booked that time????  Perhaps those members always wanted that time but couldn't because you had booked it?..

What is good for one member should be good for another


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The ladies Prob even more so by the ladies section and the juniors have their weekly games between them 

Ladies at our place play on a Tuesday and juniors can't play before a certain time at weekend.
		
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So that's a "no" then?


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 9, 2014)

G



Liverpoolphil said:



			The ladies Prob even more so by the ladies section and the juniors have their weekly games between them 

Ladies at our place play on a Tuesday and juniors can't play before a certain time at weekend.
		
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Why can't the juniors have equal rights to tee times as the men, ladies and seniors?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			So that's a "no" then?
		
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The ladies are approached by their roll ups and the junior can't play in the ones at the weekend due to the club rules but some have played during the week during school holidays 

One lady plays odd occasion on a Saturday with us but the make up of the club is the ladies play on Tuesday ( historically and they are happy with that ) - they have their own roll ups also on a Thursday 

Juniors have played but don't join in the money side 

Both ladies and juniors are at the welcome meetings


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## User20205 (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The ladies Prob even more so by the ladies section and the juniors have their weekly games between them 

Ladies at our place play on a Tuesday and juniors can't play before a certain time at weekend.
		
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What if the lady in question had a job ?  .... Unlikely I know. 

I did hear a rumour one of our roll ups discussed limiting numbers by making it 18 hc and below, and I played in our  midweek roll up once, they were mostly seniors and not really that welcoming. That said I know a few of them now and they're ok, but they weren't fussed about a new member joining them.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			No everyone just shifts their tee time by a few minutes to accommodate me.:thup: 100 plus golfers all booked in from 8.00 until 12.00, and I want to play at 10.00 I don't get a game. 100 plus golfers turn up through the morning, I want to play at 10.00, perhaps wait a few minutes, and I get a game.:whoo: For some reason at my Club all the golfers that want to play in the morning don't all turn up at the same time.oo:
		
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But..........what would you do if they did.








Serious question.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			G

Why can't the juniors have equal rights to tee times as the men, ladies and seniors?
		
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Because that is what is in the constituion of the club.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

therod said:



			What if the lady in question had a job ?  .... Unlikely I know. 

I did hear a rumour one of our roll ups discussed limiting numbers by making it 18 hc and below, and I played in our  midweek roll up once, they were mostly seniors and not really that welcoming. That said I know a few of them now and they're ok, but they weren't fussed about a new member joining them.
		
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They play at the weekend - there are a few at the club but not very many - it's mainly an older ladies section.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Without calling anyone a liar because I'm sure everything posted is an honest and sincere opinion, I very much doubt that ALL new members are made aware of and welcomed into many of these roll ups.....
		
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Definitely at our place. It's part of the introductory literature and never heard of anyone being turned away. Think there would be merry hell (rightly) if it happened


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because that is what is in the constituion of the club.
		
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Shocking in my opinion


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			Shocking in my opinion
		
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Why ? 

It's what the members voted for historically and no one has asked for it to be changed


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Definitely at our place. It's part of the introductory literature and never heard of anyone being turned away. Think there would be merry hell (rightly) if it happened
		
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Women and juniors too? Or is yours another club that prefers them playing during the week?


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Without calling anyone a liar because I'm sure everything posted is an honest and sincere opinion, I very much doubt that ALL new members are made aware of and welcomed into many of these roll ups.....
		
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Like I said, I've told the pro and secretary to give any new members my number if they want a game Saturday mornings. The RAGC captain is an active member of the Sunday roll up and always on the look out to make sure new members are integrated into the club and without exception, every new member that shows up or calls me is welcomed unreservedly into the roll-up.

You may be doubtful because of your experience at other clubs (?) but I can honestly say that from my 4 years at RAGC that I have never seen a new member not welcomed to one of our roll-ups. Indeed, my own experience at RAGC and at Blackmoor where I joined on my own has been nothing but positive.


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why ? 

It's what the members voted for historically and no one has asked for it to be changed
		
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They are being treated differently and no doubt expected to behave like "adults".

If it was me and I was in my teens (the black & white days) then I would not be happy to join a club with that system


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Without calling anyone a liar because I'm sure everything posted is an honest and sincere opinion, I very much doubt that ALL new members are made aware of and welcomed into many of these roll ups.....
		
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 I knew there were roll ups during the week, most Clubs seem to have them, so originally applied as a 5 day member. When I had my interview ooo I was advised there was one on a Saturday as well, so joined as a 7 day member. I wanted to meet new members easily, and not hang around the first tee hoping for a game.

Obviously high handicappers, and those without a home counties accent are not told about roll ups.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Women and juniors too? Or is yours another club that prefers them playing during the week?
		
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I'm not being funny FD but what is the problem here? Anyone who wants to play plays. Women and juniors rarely show up at 730 on Saturday and Sunday mornings but on the odd occasion they have, they have played.


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## Val (Dec 9, 2014)

Fish said:



			At The Warwickshire who use the Intelligent Golf system, it just states "Booked" in the general play booking area which I'm uncomfortable with, if I could at least see the members names I could look them up in the handicap list but being blind I could end up adding my name to 3 young Cat1's having a knock and then an old chomper like me turns up, I don't like this lack of transparency!
		
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Surprised at that Wallasey have the same system and it displays names


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 9, 2014)

There are 60 million golfer in the world and they all want to play one course..........St Andrews Old

and.....they all want to tee off at 10am.


Another wee story......been told on here before so apologies.

1976 Swindown Council interview 12 professionals for their new Hawtree course. 100's apply as it is obviously going to be a 'good earner..

Pre-interview they tell the professionals to come along with a booking system for the course.

One of the interview questions was 'The course is fully booked on a Sunday morning and the Chief Exec of the Council turns up with a VIP guest and wishes to play..........what would you do?

One Pro says 'I would tell them, sorry but the course is fully booked and would then congratulate him on the great decision they made to build such a successful course.'
Eleven pro's say 'we would squeeze him in'.

Guess who got the job and stayed there for 37 years. Eventually ending up an Hon Member of the PGA.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			They are being treated differently and no doubt expected to behave like "adults".

If it was me and I was in my teens (the black & white days) then I would not be happy to join a club with that system
		
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No problems - then I'm sure they can pay the same fees as the adult members :thup:

We have a number of teens at the club and they don't seem to have an issue 

And they are expected to behave in a pleasant manner towards others and are given leeway by older members in regards etiquette etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Women and juniors too? Or is yours another club that prefers them playing during the week?
		
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Which club prefers ladies play during the week ? 

And how can juniors play during the week when they are at school ?


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I'm not being funny FD but what is the problem here? Anyone who wants to play plays. Women and juniors rarely show up at 730 on Saturday and Sunday mornings but on the odd occasion they have, they have played.
		
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Just trying to find out how these things work. It sounds to me that clubs without TBS but with roll ups hogging the prime weekend slots are possibly not being fair to all the members. happy to learn otherwise....


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

What's all this "hogging" prime slots about ? 

If there is no tee booking how can someone "hog" a slot when anyone can turn up and play ?


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which club prefers ladies play during the week ? 

And how can juniors play during the week when they are at school ?
		
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And how can they play on Saturday morning when its against the constitution? It's a wonder you have any juniors.


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			But..........what would you do if they did.








Serious question.
		
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 Being very popular I would get invited to play and tee off straight away.








Not a serious answer.

It just doesn't happen, because members want to play at different times. If you asked when forumers like to play during the day, I am sure you would get a wide range of times. As a member you get to know busy times pretty quickly, and I personally tend to avoid those. Busy is relative, tens of minutes not hours.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What's all this "hogging" prime slots about ? 

If there is no tee booking how can someone "hog" a slot when anyone can turn up and play ?
		
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Except juniors and ladies 'cos they play Tuesday's?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Just trying to find out how these things work. It sounds to me that clubs without TBS but with roll ups hogging the prime weekend slots are possibly not being fair to all the members. happy to learn otherwise....
		
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If we have members wanting to go out before our roll up on either a Saturday or Sunday, and they do, especially if there are knockout matches to be played but also socially, it makes perfect sense to let them go first rather than wait behind a host of three or four balls especially if they are a two ball. It really is a lot simpler than people are making out and that rare commodity "common sense" does happen. If there were a couple of groups they'd definitely be asked if they fancied joining in the roll up, especially if they are newbies


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			And how can they play on Saturday morning when its against the constitution? It's a wonder you have any juniors.
		
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They play after 11 on Saturdays or on a sunday


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Just trying to find out how these things work. It sounds to me that clubs without TBS but with roll ups hogging the prime weekend slots are possibly not being fair to all the members. happy to learn otherwise....
		
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How can it not be fair when anyone is free to turn up and play when they want. There seems to be an awful lot of wrong assumptions going on about clubs without TBS, like somehow those who turn up to play in a roll up are someone banishing everyone else from the course. It really doesn't happen like that in my experience, if that was the case I, as someone who joins clubs on their own, would never get a game.

P.S. Just to explain a bit more how it works at RAGC. We meet in the clubhouse somewhere between 7:15 - 7:45 and do the draw about 7:45ish. If the tee is busy we often hang back 15 minutes to allow it to clear a bit and then groups make their way to the tee, the later groups often waiting in the clubhouse a bit longer. If a group turns up while we're on the tee they are offered to go next.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Except juniors and ladies 'cos they play Tuesday's?
		
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That's the ladies choice no one else's - in fact they book the wholes course out both tees from ten through to 3


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Including women and juniors?
		
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 Ladies and juniors play in our roll up, and quite a few of the booked competitions. Probably the more hardened ones in the roll up, as the talk can get a bit fruity.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's the ladies choice no one else's - in fact they book the wholes course out both tees from ten through to 3
		
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Classic.

Ok... If a new member joins, keen as anything, but works for a living. She's newish to golf and plays off 35. Saturday is the day she wants to play. Does the roll up make her welcome? Honestly?

Another question, and this isn't necessarily gender related, if a member wants to play Saturday morning but isn't comfortable in the roll up for any reason is it fair that they can't get a time?

I'm just genuinely interested, I don't know how these things play out.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			How can it not be fair when anyone is free to turn up and play when they want. There seems to be an awful lot of wrong assumptions going on about clubs without TBS, like somehow those who turn up to play in a roll up are someone banishing everyone else from the course. It really doesn't happen like that in my experience, if that was the case I, as someone who joins clubs on their own, would never get a game.
		
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Ah, think I misunderstood. I thought the roll up had a time reserved for it.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ah, think I misunderstood. I thought the roll up had a time reserved for it.
		
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Nope, I did edit my post to make it clearer, if the tee is busy we wait a bit, there is certainly no concept of it being our tee time


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Classic.

Ok... If a new member joins, keen as anything, but works for a living. She's newish to golf and plays off 35. Saturday is the day she wants to play. Does the roll up make her welcome? Honestly?
		
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What's classic ?

Yes she would be made to feel welcome in the rolls up I play.




			Another question, and this isn't necessarily gender related, if a member wants to play Saturday morning but isn't comfortable in the roll up for any reason is it fair that they can't get a time?

I'm just genuinely interested, I don't know how these things play out.
		
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No it's not fair - the members turns up on the tee and then plays when it's their turn on the tee. If the roll up is there then they wait in turn unless they are a single then get allo&#373;ed out on their own


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 9, 2014)

He



Liverpoolphil said:



			No problems - then I'm sure they can pay the same fees as the adult members :thup:

We have a number of teens at the club and they don't seem to have an issue 

And they are expected to behave in a pleasant manner towards others and are given leeway by older members in regards etiquette etc
		
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Do the seniors pay the same?  If not do they also play second fiddle to the gents & ladies members?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Classic.

Ok... If a new member joins, keen as anything, but works for a living. She's newish to golf and plays off 35. Saturday is the day she wants to play. Does the roll up make her welcome? Honestly?

Another question, and this isn't necessarily gender related, if a member wants to play Saturday morning but isn't comfortable in the roll up for any reason is it fair that they can't get a time?

I'm just genuinely interested, I don't know how these things play out.
		
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To be honest, it's a scenario that hasn't happened but as we have some 27 and 28 handicappers in our roll up then I reckon, yes she'd be invited. We do have a thriving ladies section though with many of them playing on a Saturday and I would hope they would do their bit to incorporate her as well. 

As I said in my replies, if a member wanted to go out then we'd let them go in front of the roll up although to be honest if he was a singleton he'd be in for a slow round at a peak time like that booking system or not. If he was in a pair of even a four, they still have the option of going off the 10th, or waiting. Again, as I've said, common sense tends to govern how these things play out and there are no hard and fast rules. We certainly don't "own" the tee


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			He

Do the seniors pay the same?  If not do they also play second fiddle to the gents & ladies members?
		
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Seniors pay the same up to the age of 75 or if they have been at the club for over 40 years get reduced rate I believe. 

It's a members clubs and with that comes voting and playing rights dependent on the membership a person pays for.


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ah, think I misunderstood. I thought the roll up had a time reserved for it.
		
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 The time of the roll up varies each week, depending on competitions, matches etc. It also always goes off later in the morning, early afternoon, so not at the busiest time of the day. We get a text from the organizer letting us know the time each week.

Must admit from what I have read on here, a lot of forumers don't seem to get the idea of a members club. We all try and pull in the same direction, so everyone gets a game when they want one. I know nearly everyone that plays on a regular basis on a Saturday, most are mates, and we sort things out amongst ourselves. At the end of the game we pull the tables together and have a good laugh over a few drinks, and a bit of food. Not for me changing in the carpark, 18 holes, and straight off home afterwards. My choice.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Dec 9, 2014)

What I'd like to know is how many people play in the roll up / swindles on a typical Saturday comp day at courses without bookings. We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal and I think it would be absolute chaos without booked times and people just turning up and expecting to get on. Obviously if the numbers are a lot lower then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.


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## Val (Dec 9, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			What I'd like to know is how many people play in the roll up / swindles on a typical Saturday comp day at courses without bookings. We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal and I think it would be absolute chaos without booked times and people just turning up and expecting to get on. Obviously if the numbers are a lot lower then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
		
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45 at our winter sweep, they all play at a variety of times through the summer. I normally play before 9 in the summer and most of the winter sweep guys I've never played with before because most play late morning/early pm


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2014)

richart said:



			The time of the roll up varies each week, depending on competitions, matches etc. It also always goes off later in the morning, early afternoon, so not at the busiest time of the day. We get a text from the organizer letting us know the time each week.

Must admit from what I have read on here, a lot of forumers don't seem to get the idea of a members club. We all try and pull in the same direction, so everyone gets a game when they want one. I know nearly everyone that plays on a regular basis on a Saturday, most are mates, and we sort things out amongst ourselves. At the end of the game we pull the tables together and have a good laugh over a few drinks, and a bit of food. Not for me changing in the carpark, 18 holes, and straight off home afterwards. My choice.
		
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I think I get that, honest, but I'd seen these roll ups as cliques that go contrary to that ethos. As you all continue to educate me I realise I was mistaken....


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			What I'd like to know is how many people play in the roll up / swindles on a typical Saturday comp day at courses without bookings. We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal and I think it would be absolute chaos without booked times and people just turning up and expecting to get on. Obviously if the numbers are a lot lower then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
		
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 Our roll up doesn't play when there is a competition, as we have booked tees for comps. Roll up is social golf when there are no competitions. If you don't play in our competitions you will have very limited time to play social golf. I think we have a one hour slot for non competion golf. Medals always have about 150 play in them over two days. Saturday is always the busiest day.

Booking on line for competitions, turn up and play the rest of the time.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			What I'd like to know is how many people play in the roll up / swindles on a typical Saturday comp day at courses without bookings. We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal and I think it would be absolute chaos without booked times and people just turning up and expecting to get on. Obviously if the numbers are a lot lower then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
		
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All weekend comps are drawn with allocated tee times


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think I get that, honest, but I'd seen these roll ups as cliques that go contrary to that ethos. As you all continue to educate me I realise I was mistaken....
		
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Don't get me wrong FD, there are probably clubs that operate more the way you imagine, but we aren't all like that


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## Val (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think I get that, honest, but I'd seen these roll ups as cliques that go contrary to that ethos. As you all continue to educate me I realise I was mistaken....
		
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Used to think the same, couldn't have been further from the truth


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## richart (Dec 9, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think I get that, honest, but I'd seen these roll ups as cliques that go contrary to that ethos. As you all continue to educate me I realise I was mistaken....
		
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 I am pretty sure the Club monitor roll ups though, otherwise you could get little cliques starting up their own, and playing at the peak times. I suppose we only allow official roll ups, when you can all go out together.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Dec 9, 2014)

Val said:



			45 at our winter sweep, they all play at a variety of times through the summer. I normally play before 9 in the summer and most of the winter sweep guys I've never played with before because most play late morning/early pm
		
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Cheers Val, I was thinking more of the summer though and bigger Sat comps. Lanark is BRS at all times, 9 days in advance for all bookings, comps and social. In the comps/winter sweeps you can add 2 players and join in with anyone in any free spaces that takes your fancy. In social times, if you book a time it closes down the teetime and other members can't add their names, latest thing we introduced to combat this is you can call the pro shop and they show the time as available for people to join by turning the time purple. I can honestly say I haven't missed a comp at Lanark in 2 years at Lanark when I've been looking to play.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			What I'd like to know is how many people play in the roll up / swindles on a typical Saturday comp day at courses without bookings. We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal and I think it would be absolute chaos without booked times and people just turning up and expecting to get on. Obviously if the numbers are a lot lower then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
		
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There is a roll up every morning of about 30 

At the weekends there are about 3 on at sat 

One at 6:30 with about 30 ( 7:30 in winter )

One at 9:00 with about 20 

One at 10:00 with about 30

On Sunday 

6:30 lot again 

7:30 about 20 

8:00 about 20 

Have played in most of them over the years but mainly the 10:00 or 6:30 on Sat and 6:30 on Sunday


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			What I'd like to know is how many people play in the roll up / swindles on a typical Saturday comp day at courses without bookings. We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal and I think it would be absolute chaos without booked times and people just turning up and expecting to get on. Obviously if the numbers are a lot lower then it wouldn't be as much of a problem.
		
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We don't operate a roll up in our usual time slot if there's a comp on. Most of the roll up players would rather play the competition and the cub book the tee 8.00-10.00 for drawn comp times anyway so the problem solves itself


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## Val (Dec 9, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			Cheers Val, I was thinking more of the summer though and bigger Sat comps. Lanark is BRS at all times, 9 days in advance for all bookings, comps and social. In the comps/winter sweeps you can add 2 players and join in with anyone in any free spaces that takes your fancy. In social times, if you book a time it closes down the teetime and other members can't add their names, latest thing we introduced to combat this is you can call the pro shop and they show the time as available for people to join by turning the time purple. I can honestly say I haven't missed a comp at Lanark in 2 years at Lanark when I've been looking to play.
		
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Comps have to have a booking system in place, a comp can't work as a roll up


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## Lanark_Golfer (Dec 9, 2014)

Val said:



			Comps have to have a booking system in place, a comp can't work as a roll up
		
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Just seen that from the responses, I had thought people were rolling up to play in comps but seems to be for social golf. Our tee is booked out from 07:00-15:15 Sat or 07:00-13:15 Sun during the summer just for the medal/comp, not much time left for roll ups.


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## Val (Dec 9, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			Just seen that from the responses, I had thought people were rolling up to play in comps but seems to be for social golf. Our tee is booked out from 07:00-15:15 Sat or 07:00-13:15 Sun during the summer just for the medal/comp, not much time left for roll ups.
		
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Not sure about Lanark but we don't really have roll ups in the summer, just the Sunday sweep. 3 roll ups through winter, I've no idea what goes on weekdays but there is roll ups that the old boys and non weekday workers play


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## Snelly (Dec 10, 2014)

richart said:



			Must admit from what I have read on here, a lot of forumers don't seem to get the idea of a members club. We all try and pull in the same direction, so everyone gets a game when they want one. I know nearly everyone that plays on a regular basis on a Saturday, most are mates, and we sort things out amongst ourselves. At the end of the game we pull the tables together and have a good laugh over a few drinks, and a bit of food. Not for me changing in the carpark, 18 holes, and straight off home afterwards. My choice.
		
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Very good post Rich. 

I think that many threads on this forum have two sides of an argument, both of which can be attributed to a certain type of golfer.  At it's most simplistic, it is probably just those new to golf and those who have played for a long time.


My view is that Hayling and Blackmoor have it right along with lots of other clubs.  I would go as far to say that a club with a full-time computer booking system is probably one that I would not join.   

Interview questions:

Is there a joining fee?
Does the club supply towels?  
Can I play the course accompanied by my dog?
Do you run a computerised booking system? 

If it is three yes's followed by a no then you are probably on pretty hallowed golfing turf!


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Very good post Rich. 

At it's most simplistic, it is probably just those new to golf and those who have played for a long time.
		
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So you're saying it's the older golfer who is stuck in his ways, versus newer more modern golfer who appreciates the world has changed? 

(tongue in cheek, but that sounds similar to what you are saying, to a degree?)


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## fundy (Dec 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Very good post Rich. 

I think that many threads on this forum have two sides of an argument, both of which can be attributed to a certain type of golfer.  At it's most simplistic, it is probably just those new to golf and those who have played for a long time.


My view is that Hayling and Blackmoor have it right along with lots of other clubs.  I would go as far to say that a club with a full-time computer booking system is probably one that I would not join.   

Interview questions:

Is there a joining fee?
Does the club supply towels?  
Can I play the course accompanied by my dog?
Do you run a computerised booking system? 

If it is three yes's followed by a no then you are probably on pretty hallowed golfing turf!
		
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no questions about the barmaids or yorkshire puds Snelly, your standards must be dropping lol


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## Snelly (Dec 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			So you're saying it's the older golfer who is stuck in his ways, versus newer more modern golfer who appreciates the world has changed? 

(tongue in cheek, but that sounds similar to what you are saying, to a degree?)
		
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That is one way of looking at it, albeit a completely incorrect one. 

Change is good but not always.  There's also plenty of sense in the phrase, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.


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## Snelly (Dec 10, 2014)

fundy said:



			no questions about the barmaids or yorkshire puds Snelly, your standards must be dropping lol
		
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Those are research topics, undertaken well in advance of any interview stage.  See also; wine list, shower quality, dress code and average speed of general play.   

Joking aside, I would not join a club if rounds of golf encumbered by slow play were a possibility.  No way.  

The West Sussex GC is perfect for me but now I am in a position to join, it looks like we will be leaving the area which will be a great shame from a golfing perspective.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Change is good but not always.  There's also plenty of sense in the phrase, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
		
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I completely agree, the only issue is who is defining whether it is broken or not.

As it happens, with tee booking system, I feel 99% of people will be happy with what they have. Our nature is to adapt to what is in place. That's why roll-ups work at places with and without booking systems, they have adapted to what is there.

I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.


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## Snelly (Dec 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I completely agree, the only issue is who is defining whether it is broken or not.

As it happens, with tee booking system, I feel 99% of people will be happy with what they have. Our nature is to adapt to what is in place. That's why roll-ups work at places with and without booking systems, they have adapted to what is there.

I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.
		
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You make a good point here but I would counter it by saying that most cliques in golf clubs are perceived rather than actual and if you are at the right club for you, that meets your needs, then I would be certain that the members that play in their swindles and fiddles would be very welcoming if a new member made some effort to integrate.   And to your point again, this is like most situations in life.  You get out what you put in.


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## full_throttle (Dec 10, 2014)

not going to read through 100+ posts,

My club is a 9 hole course and it's only competition days that are by tee time. Members are advised on joining that Wed morning is reserved for senior members but any other time it's a turn up and play policy. It works well, even on the busiest days I haven't waited much more than 30 minutes.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			You make a good point here but I would counter it by saying that most cliques in golf clubs are perceived rather than actual and if you are at the right club for you, that meets your needs, then I would be certain that the members that play in their swindles and fiddles would be very welcoming if a new member made some effort to integrate.   And to your point again, this is like most situations in life.  You get out what you put in.
		
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Very interesting, and not one I would disagree with at all. The issue could be why the perception exists though, as "perceptions become reality". If everyone thinks a clique exists, that pretty much means a clique exists, even if the group don't see that themselves. I guess, like you say, it comes down to being at the right club for you personally.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 10, 2014)

Lanark_Golfer said:



			We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal
		
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Blimey....good luck with that, there are only 156 playing in the Open and they are teeing off from 6am!!


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## Snelly (Dec 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Very interesting, and not one I would disagree with at all. The issue could be why the perception exists though, as "perceptions become reality". If everyone thinks a clique exists, that pretty much means a clique exists, even if the group don't see that themselves. I guess, like you say, it comes down to being at the right club for you personally.
		
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The last point is the most crucial. I mentioned West Sussex a couple of posts earlier. I think it is just about perfect as golf clubs go.  I really do - it is amazing.   But I can say with certainty that there are plenty of regular contributors to this forum that would despise the place!

If you find the right club for your needs then you don't need to worry about what is wrong with other clubs - computer booking systems being a case in point.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.
		
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I'm sure there is a little bit of poetic licence on here at times but I think I prefer a slightly cliquey rollup that takes a couple of games to feel integrated into over playing in the same 4ball every week because I'm forced to book a time 3 weeks in advance.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Dec 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Blimey....good luck with that, there are only 156 playing in the Open and they are teeing off from 6am!!
		
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Yip, that's why turn up and play wouldn't work at mine. Normal Sat Comp is booked out from 07:00 till 15:15 with 201 spaces available and is normally at least 90% full, Some of the bigger comps are slightly bigger fields also.

Looking forward, from next season we are introducing the option of playing the Monthly Sat Medal on the Friday too to ease the strain. Seperate CSS but one comp and sweep etc, were some rumblings about the weather being different each day but I would counter that with weather being just as different am to pm, pays your money takes your chance


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## backwoodsman (Dec 10, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I completely agree, the only issue is who is defining whether it is broken or not.

As it happens, with tee booking system, I feel 99% of people will be happy with what they have. Our nature is to adapt to what is in place. That's why roll-ups work at places with and without booking systems, they have adapted to what is there.

I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.
		
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I think I can safely say that ours is clique free. At my interview (yes, we still have them) 5 years ago I was told "if you want to meet people, turn up for 'The Swindle'. And I did. The then past captain who told me that still plays in it. As do I. As does this years captain. And new members are still told the same. Hence locker room conversation varies from "where the hell were you last week" to "blimey, I thought you died years ago" to "Is this your first time? Don't worry, stick around we'll see you ok.

If it is cliquey, then 120 or so people is one hell of a clique - thats how many different people played in it last year.


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## Smiffy (Dec 10, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Including women
		
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Depends how fit they are


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 10, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Very good post Rich. 

I think that many threads on this forum have two sides of an argument, both of which can be attributed to a certain type of golfer.  At it's most simplistic, it is probably just those new to golf and those who have played for a long time.


My view is that Hayling and Blackmoor have it right along with lots of other clubs.  I would go as far to say that a club with a full-time computer booking system is probably one that I would not join.   

Interview questions:

Is there a joining fee?
Does the club supply towels?  
Can I play the course accompanied by my dog?
Do you run a computerised booking system? 

If it is three yes's followed by a no then you are probably on pretty hallowed golfing turf!
		
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Very simplistic depending on what you consider "new to golf"?

As for interview questions then personally I wouldn't go any further if there was an interview.  As for dogs on the course then that would be the last thing I would want to see!

It is indeed finding somewhere that suits you and where you feel comfortable playing.

What I find amusing is some of the reasons for either being for or against an on-line booking system


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 10, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			Very simplistic depending on what you consider "new to golf"?

*As for interview questions then personally I wouldn't go any further if there was an interview.  As for dogs on the course then that would be the last thing I would want to see!*

It is indeed finding somewhere that suits you and where you feel comfortable playing.

*What I find amusing is some of the reasons for either being for or against an on-line booking system*

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Couple of interesting points you make there. What do you have against interviews and dogs on the course? 

And booking systems?


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 10, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Couple of interesting points you make there. What do you have against interviews and dogs on the course? 

And booking systems?
		
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1. Interviews: I'm not going for a job and taking money, I'm looking to play golf and giving money (although I do accept that ANY interview should be two way)

2. It's a golf course not a place for dogs to bark, pee, poo and annoy.  Just like when you go for a run or a bike ride and the dog owner says the dog is harmless and just being friendly.  Yeah so you say....

3. Nothing!  I prefer the on-line booking system.  I just thought that some of the arguments on both side were amusing and got very personal in some cases.


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			1. Interviews: I'm not going for a job and taking money, I'm looking to play golf and giving money (although I do accept that ANY interview should be two way)

2. It's a golf course not a place for dogs to bark, pee, poo and annoy.  Just like when you go for a run or a bike ride and the dog owner says the dog is harmless and just being friendly.  Yeah so you say....

3. Nothing!  I prefer the on-line booking system.  I just thought that some of the arguments on both side were amusing and got very personal in some cases.
		
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I don't think you would like it at West Sussex very much.  Or Sunningdale, West Hill, Hankley Common, The Berkshire,  Swinley Forest or Royal Ashdown to name just a few that contravene your three points and regrettably for you, all of which are absolutely fantastic golf clubs.

Then again, I don't think I would want to be a member of your club either. Wherever that may be.   

As I said, you just have to find what suits you and then enjoy it without worrying too much about what happens at other clubs as it is irrelevant.


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 11, 2014)

B



Snelly said:



			I don't think you would like it at West Sussex very much.  Or Sunningdale, West Hill, Hankley Common, The Berkshire,  Swinley Forest or Royal Ashdown to name just a few that contravene your three points and regrettably for you, all of which are absolutely fantastic golf clubs.

Then again, I don't think I would want to be a member of your club either. Wherever that may be.   

As I said, you just have to find what suits you and then enjoy it without worrying too much about what happens at other clubs as it is irrelevant.
		
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Horses for courses, or dogs in your case.


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

Lots of interesting views, there are still quite a few who like the idea of a traditional, even old fashioned members clubs and all that entails. There is no problem with that, but courses do need to realise that its not the 1950s any more and the reasons for joining a club have changed a lot.


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Lots of interesting views, there are still quite a few who like the idea of a traditional, even old fashioned members clubs and all that entails. There is no problem with that, but courses do need to realise that its not the 1950s any more and the reasons for joining a club have changed a lot.
		
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This reminds me of a chat I had with the Steward at Swinley Forest.  He tells a story of being asked how long he had been working there and answers, "nearly 30 years."  The visitor then says, "Wow, you must have seen a lot of changes in that time?"  The response............... "No, sir, none."

So I can't really agree with you Paddy.  Some of the most successful, well-run, profitable and wonderful clubs in the UK have barely changed at all in decades.  Their standards remain high in every facet and they are full, have waiting lists and don't need to change what they offer at all.  

And I am not just talking about elite clubs either.  I would suggest the following as fitting this description too: Blackmoor, Hindhead, Liphook, Piltdown, Hallamshire, Hayling, Tandridge, Betchworth, Hallowes, Pannal, Rotherham, Ilkley and Sand Moor.

All great clubs that are old-school, traditional environments that haven't changed in terms of what they offer and the ambience of the place in the time that I have played them and for some of these, that is a 30 year period.


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			This reminds me of a chat I had with the Steward at Swinley Forest.  He tells a story of being asked how long he had been working there and answers, "nearly 30 years."  The visitor then says, "Wow, you must have seen a lot of changes in that time?"  The response............... "No, sir, none."

So I can't really agree with you Paddy.  Some of the most successful, well-run, profitable and wonderful clubs in the UK have barely changed at all in decades.  Their standards remain high in every facet and they are full, have waiting lists and don't need to change what they offer at all.  

And I am not just talking about elite clubs either.  I would suggest the following as fitting this description too: Blackmoor, Hindhead, Liphook, Piltdown, Hallamshire, Hayling, Tandridge, Betchworth, Hallowes, Pannal, Rotherham, Ilkley and Sand Moor.

All great clubs that are old-school, traditional environments that haven't changed in terms of what they offer and the ambience of the place in the time that I have played them and for some of these, that is a 30 year period.
		
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Sure and there are plenty of clubs that struggle for new members and even go to the wall because they fail to grasp the fact that some people just want to play golf and are not interested in being part of the club in any great way.

I guess you'd call them car park members.


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## JamesR (Dec 11, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I'm sure there is a little bit of poetic licence on here at times but I think I prefer a slightly cliquey rollup that takes a couple of games to feel integrated into over playing in the same 4ball every week because I'm forced to book a time 3 weeks in advance.
		
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I joined my club without knowing any other members, but by putting my name down on the computer I've joined established groups & met quite a few other new members and created new groups of regular playing partners.

So personally I'd say it's the membership who determine whether the system is inclusive or cliquey rather than the system itself, be it computerised or roll-up.


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I guess you'd call them car park members.
		
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Amongst other things, yes.


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Amongst other things, yes.
		
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I detect a dislike of those of us who choose change shoes at the car, play golf and go home.


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			I detect a dislike of those of us who choose change shoes at the car, play golf and go home.
		
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There's no flies on you is there Sherlock!  

That said, I don't dislike anyone who does this. How could I when I don't even know them? However, I struggle to see why anyone would prefer to do this rather than socialise with their playing partners after a round of golf. I suspect it may be that they are very shy, unsociable, miserable or rather dull.


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			There's no flies on you is there Sherlock!  

That said, I don't dislike anyone who does this. How could I when I don't even know them? However, I struggle to see why anyone would prefer to do this rather than socialise with their playing partners after a round of golf. I suspect it may be that they are very shy, unsociable, miserable or rather dull.
		
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Golf takes a long time, not everyone can spare the 6 hours on a weekend to play a round and spend an hour in the clubhouse after.

I don't have a problem with anyone at the club, from car park members just here for 1 year to get a good deal, to the 30 years continuous member old guys, they all have a part ot play in making the club what it is.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			The I suspect it may be that they are very shy, unsociable, miserable or rather dull.
		
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Wow.

Just wow.

I'm assuming that you don't actually believe that, and said it purely to shock?!


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Wow.

Just wow.

I'm assuming that you don't actually believe that, and said it purely to shock?!
		
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it's the kind of narrow minded view of many on here, so he probably means it.


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## Smiffy (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			it's the kind of narrow minded view of many on here, so *he* probably means it.
		
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*She.* Snelly is a* girl*


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## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2014)

''My opinions are my own and designed solely for my own amusement''

he knows fine rightly he will get a bite.    he is also unlikely to go and spend a few hours playing a wet and cold 13 or so holes with the sole purpose of doing some work on his swing plane and getting value for money from his non-existent membership. 

from what I gather on here, he enjoys playing the odd nice course, eating a nice course or two and why not. sounds great.   he doesn't attempt to fit golf into every weekend like most on here. 

he also seems to love winding up car park golfers.  as if that is some terrible affliction.   each to their own. :thup:


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

Smiffy said:



*She.* Snelly is a* girl*


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Only on Friday nights love...


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## Smiffy (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Only on Friday nights love...
		
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I accidentally bought a "ladyboy" a drink at our works Christmas do on Saturday


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Golf takes a long time, not everyone can spare the 6 hours on a weekend to play a round and spend an hour in the clubhouse after.
		
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 Wow you must drink slowly. It takes a few minutes to change in the clubhouse, and have a quick drink with your partners. You can spare 5 hours eek for a round, but not ten minutes for a drink.


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Golf takes a long time, not everyone can spare the 6 hours on a weekend to play a round and spend an hour in the clubhouse after.
		
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6 hours? That would be 2.5 hours of drinking!


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

Are we really going to get into the "carpark golfers" discussion again? Sweet Jesus, you'd think people would be bored of it by now !!!!


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			Wow you must drink slowly. It takes a few minutes to change in the clubhouse, and have a quick drink with your partners. You can spare 5 hours eek for a round, but not ten minutes for a drink.

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10 minutes for a drink? Where is the fun/politeness/whatever in getting into the bar, necking a drink then shooting off? May as well leave straight away!


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			6 hours? That would be 2.5 hours of drinking!
		
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Yes, with the old farts preferring to give up their seniors discount than drop the joining fee, we have been able to purchase a teleporter which mean I can get to and from the course in a flash, saving me the 50 minute round trip


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Are we really going to get into the "carpark golfers" discussion again? Sweet Jesus, you'd think people would be bored of it by now !!!!
		
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You'd be really amazed if you knew how much we go on about it in the clubhouse after a round!


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			You'd be really amazed if you knew how much we go on about it in the clubhouse after a round! 

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What's a clubhouse?


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Wow. Just wow.
		
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Are you Kate Bush?


No I am not trying to be shocking and don't agree with you that what I wrote in my previous post was particularly incendiary.   What other reasons are there for not wanting to have a pint with your playing partners?  Lack of funds perhaps?  No problem, I would buy you a beer every week if you were that skint.  

My view, like it or not, is that if you don't regularly have a quick chat in the bar with your mates over a drink after you've played golf then you are in all probability, a miserable, unsociable, tight-fisted dullard.  

Nothing shocking about that.  Just my view.


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Are you Kate Bush?


No I am not trying to be shocking and don't agree with you that what I wrote in my previous post was particularly incendiary.   What other reasons are there for not wanting to have a pint with your playing partners?  Lack of funds perhaps?  No problem, I would buy you a beer every week if you were that skint.  

My view, like it or not, is that if you don't regularly have a quick chat in the bar with your mates over a drink after you've played golf then you are in all probability, a miserable, unsociable, tight-fisted dullard.  

Nothing shocking about that.  Just my view.
		
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I have to talk to them for 4 hours as we troop round the course.... thats enough for me!


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## Smiffy (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Are you Kate Bush?
		
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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Yes, with the old farts preferring to give up their seniors discount than drop the joining fee, we have been able to purchase a teleporter which mean I can get to and from the course in a flash, saving me the 50 minute round trip
		
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50 minutes?  Do you live offshore? 

No wonder you don't go in the bar much if that is the kind of esteem you hold the senior members of your club in!


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Yes, with the old farts preferring to give up their seniors discount than drop the joining fee, we have been able to purchase a teleporter which mean I can get to and from the course in a flash, saving me the 50 minute round trip
		
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If you were a member of my Club I would be quite happy for you to be a carpark cowboy.:thup:


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 11, 2014)

Snelly said:



			No I am not trying to be shocking and don't agree with you that what I wrote in my previous post was particularly incendiary.   What other reasons are there for not wanting to have a pint with your playing partners?  Lack of funds perhaps?  No problem, I would buy you a beer every week if you were that skint.
		
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 Plenty of reasons. Including, but not limited to, having other priorities than sitting in the clubhouse post round. Plenty of times I drove to the course with my friend, we played golf, then got back in the car and drove back. Sociable? yep, we chatted the whole way, and around the course. I don't need to sit in a clubhouse to do that. 




Snelly said:



			My view, like it or not, is that if you don't regularly have a quick chat in the bar with your mates over a drink after you've played golf then you are in all probability, a miserable, unsociable, tight-fisted dullard.
		
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 I sometimes wish you wouldn't sit on the fence, tell us what you really mean. I wouldn't describe someone who actively spends 4 hours in the company of others, having paid a fairly large amount for the privilege, as either unsociable, or tight-fisted. 



Snelly said:



			Nothing shocking about that.  Just my view.
		
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 And you are more than entitled to it. As am I to think it's shocking, and says more about you than the "car park golfers". No wide ranging generalisation will ever fit, and for you to have such a negative view is a bit extreme, over one small facet of someones personality.


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			If you were a member of my Club I would be quite happy for you to be a carpark cowboy.:thup:
		
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Thank goodness I am not, I played your place when I worked in Eastleigh, nothing special


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## Smiffy (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Thank goodness I am not, I played your place when I worked in Eastleigh, nothing special
		
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Oh dear


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			'he also seems to love winding up car park golfers.
		
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I didn't but I do now.


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## Snelly (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Thank goodness I am not, I played your place when I worked in Eastleigh, nothing special
		
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You must be a member at a fantastic club to say that Blackmoor is "nothing special."


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Thank goodness I am not, I played your place when I worked in Eastleigh, nothing special
		
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:rofl: remind me not to take any notice of course reviews from you in future


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## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			:rofl: remind me not to take any notice of *course* reviews from you in future
		
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Except for the 'Carpark' section!


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			A bit like some golf clubs I suppose
		
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Quite possibly the best bit of "get a thread back on trackery" I've ever witnessed..


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Quite possibly the best bit of "get a thread back on trackery" I've ever witnessed.. 

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It was gone a while back..


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			It was gone a while back..
		
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Us carpark members don't appear to be very popular .. If only 1 person would ask for the reason why we don't go into the clubhouse after most rounds.. Still, it's probably easier just to make a judgement and move on...


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

SAPCOR1 said:



			Thanks blue wolf!  Wanna join me & Paddy in our clique?
		
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I thought that being a carpark member meant that we were too dull, miserable and anti-social to be in a clique?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

I have said many times in various places (here, blog, social media) about my feelings on car park golfers. I completely understand the need to balance family and committments for some but, as a round rarely takes over four hours, even comps, I can't understand why once a month they can't allow and extra 30-60 minutes and pop into the clubhouse. Just my opinion of course and they pay their fees so are entitled to use it as they see fit


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I have said many times in various places (here, blog, social media) about my feelings on car park golfers. I completely understand the need to balance family and committments for some but, as a round rarely takes over four hours, even comps, I can't understand why once a month they can't allow and extra 30-60 minutes and pop into the clubhouse. Just my opinion of course and they pay their fees so are entitled to use it as they see fit
		
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Ah but you put it access nicley mr homer


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			I thought that being a carpark member meant that we were too dull, miserable and anti-social to be in a clique?
		
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Good point!  I don't always change my shoes in the car park.  If I'm wearing those horrible, not really golf shoes, trainer type spikeless monstrosities, then I just drive home in them


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## Duckster (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Us carpark members don't appear to be very popular .. If only 1 person would ask for the reason why we don't go into the clubhouse after most rounds.. Still, it's probably easier just to make a judgement and move on... 

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Go on then, I'll bite. Although I am honestly interested as I've been a member at a club that had absolutely no social side to it at all but am currently at one with an active social membership (must admit I like a beer afterwards and don't have kids so can happily stay for a while)


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I have said many times in various places (here, blog, social media) about my feelings on car park golfers. I completely understand the need to balance family and committments for some but, as a round rarely takes over four hours, even comps, I can't understand why once a month they can't allow and extra 30-60 minutes and pop into the clubhouse. Just my opinion of course and they pay their fees so are entitled to use it as they see fit
		
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I almost always use the clubhouse after a competition round. I'll make sure that there's enough time for a coffee with my PP's. The exception being midweek medals where I'm restricted by the same issues that stop me after social rounds. I don't have time. It's not that I have time, but choose otherwise. I genuinely don't have time. On several occasions this year I've left before finishing the round, never mind entering the clubhouse.. I can't tee off earlier, and I can't stay later..

Oh, and I've used the clubhouse at my new club quite a bit more than the previous club. The reason? My wife and kids are welcome. They can pop up after a round and have a nice lunch overlooking the 18th. At my previous club they wouldn't have been allowed in without wearing their Sunday best..


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

Duckster said:



			Go on then, I'll bite. Although I am honestly interested as I've been a member at a club that had absolutely no social side to it at all but am currently at one with an active social membership (must admit I like a beer afterwards and don't have kids so can happily stay for a while)
		
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Sorry mate, answered the question in my response to Homeslice ..

Are you at Shaw Hill? Do you know Phil Jervis?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Ah but you put it access nicley mr homer
		
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Thank you kindly. I do understand why people do it. I don't necessarily agree with it, certainly each and every round. I do think they may get more out of going in once in a while and it'll certainly help get their face known to more people *BUT* I'm not as strong in my dislike as some of the comments on here which were just wrong (although a degree of fishing may have been involved)


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## Duckster (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Sorry mate, answered the question in my response to Homeslice ..

Are you at Shaw Hill? Do you know Phil Jervis?
		
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Very fair answer Bluewolf.

Yes & yes, top bloke!


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

Duckster said:



			Very fair answer Bluewolf.

Yes & yes, top bloke!
		
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He works with me and drives me absolutely nuts all the time.. I do like him though, even though I'd like to cut his hands off sometimes. There's a reason we call him fiddler Phil


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## Duckster (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			He works with me and drives me absolutely nuts all the time.. I do like him though, even though I'd like to cut his hands off sometimes. There's a reason we call him fiddler Phil 

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He subbed for a guy in the winter league a couple of weeks ago and promptly kicked mine and my bro-in-laws arses.  The git! ;-)

Edit part * As for the car park golfers side of things, I can fully understand why some people simply can't do it and wouldn't hold it against anyone.  The bar shouldn't be holding up the club, in fact most clubs bars / food only just break even with many making a loss.

But I do so enjoy that part of things.....


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## SAPCOR1 (Dec 11, 2014)

I know a few guys who have to be careful with their time due to various commitments and I know a few who are just not interested in socialising after a round of golf.  They have had their dose of socialising during the 18 holes and have a life away from the golf club.

On the opposite side I know some people who have no social life out with golf and the golf club and see it as a place of refuge from whatever.

The new drink drive law in Scotland will put paid to a lot of post match socialising unless it is with a pot of tea or coffee


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## sawtooth (Dec 11, 2014)

Why would anyone not want a booking system? You have the best of both worlds. If you want a tee time ring up and book it, if you fancy a game last minute just roll up to course and ask the pro if its OK to go off - he'll still let you! At our place you dont need to book , its there if you want to.


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

Duckster said:



			Edit part * As for the car park golfers side of things, I can fully understand why some people simply can't do it and wouldn't hold it against anyone.  The bar shouldn't be holding up the club, in fact most clubs bars / food only just break even with many making a loss.

But I do so enjoy that part of things..... 

Click to expand...

I do look forward to the day when  I don't need to pick the kids up from school. I would most likely have a coffee and a sandwich after every round.. Only another 3 years


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Why would anyone not want a booking system? You have the best of both worlds. If you want a tee time ring up and book it, if you fancy a game last minute just roll up to course and ask the pro if its OK to go off - he'll still let you! At our place you dont need to book , its there if you want to.
		
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I don't get that Sean. You roll up for a game, and the tee is booked for two hours solid. How does the Pro get you a game ? 

I personally have no problem with golfers that like a booking system, and those that don't. I do have a problem with someone insisting there is somethong wrong with my club not having a booking system. It works fine, why would we want to change ? No we are not losing members, or having potential members join else where because we don't have tee bookings for social play. In fact I think we are more likely to be gaining members. This is not aimed at you Sean.

Sorry if it makes my club seem too traditional for some.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 11, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Why would anyone not want a booking system? You have the best of both worlds. If you want a tee time ring up and book it, if you fancy a game last minute just roll up to course and ask the pro if its OK to go off - he'll still let you! At our place you dont need to book , its there if you want to.
		
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Because we don't, we don't need it and don't deem it necessary. Is that OK?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Because we don't, we don't need it and don't deem it necessary. Is that OK?
		
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Same at my place. Never had it and members have already said they don't want it


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Because we don't, we don't need it and don't deem it necessary. Is that OK?
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			Same at my place. Never had it and members have already said they don't want it
		
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Would your members consider it if it was shown to them and it proved that it would work better than what you have?


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Would your members consider it if it was shown to them and it proved that it would work better than what you have?
		
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But it wouldn't work better. Why would it? We've never had complaints about not getting a game. There's the option of starting on the 10th should there be a huge delay on the first. Plenty of options, plenty of advance notification if and when tees are booked for competition or societies.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But it wouldn't work better. Why would it? We've never had complaints about not getting a game. There's the option of starting on the 10th should there be a huge delay on the first. Plenty of options, plenty of advance notification if and when tees are booked for competition or societies.
		
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You've just answered that like a politician Homer so i'll try again. The answer required is yes or no.

Would your members consider it if it was shown to them and it proved that it would work better than what you have?


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			You've just answered that like a politician Homer so i'll try again. The answer required is yes or no.

Would your members consider it if it was shown to them and it proved that it would work better than what you have?
		
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As I said before on this thread (or one of them at least), RAGC had a vote on having a booking system, they voted no, why is it so hard for you to believe that not evrybody wants, needs or desires a booking system? You like it, that's great, that doesn't mean we all want one.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			You've just answered that like a politician Homer so i'll try again. The answer required is yes or no.

Would your members consider it if it was shown to them and it proved that it would work better than what you have?
		
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And I'll respond the same way. Why would it work better and how can you prove it works better and quantify that to start with. I'd have thought that the members voting against it at the AGM tells you exactly what they think to the idea and that they don't see any need to change. If it ain't broke why fix it and introduce something not warranted and certainly not wanted or asked for


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## sawtooth (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			I don't get that Sean. You roll up for a game, and the tee is booked for two hours solid. How does the Pro get you a game ? 

I personally have no problem with golfers that like a booking system, and those that don't. I do have a problem with someone insisting there is somethong wrong with my club not having a booking system. It works fine, why would we want to change ? No we are not losing members, or having potential members join else where because we don't have tee bookings for social play. In fact I think we are more likely to be gaining members. This is not aimed at you Sean.

Sorry if it makes my club seem too traditional for some.
		
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Maybe I'm not understanding the challenges some courses see so forgive me if it sounded like it was a dig...certainly not intended. Not telling anyone on here how there club should be run!

I just know that it works well at our place and that you dont need to book if you dont want to. You can take a chance and roll up, you will get on if there's space. What I dont get is (if you dont have a booking system) you are still going to struggle are you not? I mean getting on when its super busy ie. Sat and Sun am.

The only time our place is booked 2 hours solid is weekend mornings, occasionally during the week when societys and seniors etc have block booked tee's. A booking system allows you to see that online and you navigate around it.


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## sawtooth (Dec 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Because we don't, we don't need it and don't deem it necessary. Is that OK?
		
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Perfectly OK, I wasnt aiming anything your way.......just a general comment on the subject thats all.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			As I said before on this thread (or one of them at least), RAGC had a vote on having a booking system, they voted no, why is it so hard for you to believe that not evrybody wants, needs or desires a booking system? You like it, that's great, that doesn't mean we all want one.
		
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I know you did, relax FFS. I was merely asking a hypothetical question which would have led me onto another point.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And I'll respond the same way. Why would it work better and how can you prove it works better and quantify that to start with. I'd have thought that the members voting against it at the AGM tells you exactly what they think to the idea and that they don't see any need to change. If it ain't broke why fix it and introduce something not warranted and certainly not wanted or asked for
		
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How do you know for certain it wouldn't be better? My question was if it was proven better what would the members say?

As I said to Hawkeye in my previous post, the question is hypothetical, your club runs fine with what you have, i get that but curious to a response to my question thats all.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			How do you know for certain it wouldn't be better? My question was if it was proven better what would the members say?

As I said to Hawkeye in my previous post, the question is hypothetical, your club runs fine with what you have, i get that but curious to a response to my question thats all.
		
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What part of this is *SO* difficult. How do you prove it would be better and what part of the membership already having voted no seems to make you think they want it. Why introduce something universally unpopular that I have no doubt would drive some members away. How can you possibly quantify what does or doesn't work better. Exactly how would you prove it


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			I know you did, relax FFS. I was merely asking a hypothetical question which would have led me onto another point.
		
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But the question has already been asked, the members said no. We don't want it and don't need it, can we not just accept that everyone has their own preference and move on?


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

Booking systems are important for us car park members, we need to be able to get from the car to the tee without wasting any time. I wopuldnt want to have to loiter in the car park for half an hour... it only takes so long to put on my shoes and put up my trolley. (i put my waterproofs on at home to save time)


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

On a slight tangent, for the Clubs that don't run a tee booking system, but allow society golf access on any given day. How do you know when the tee is booked for a visiting party? The reason I ask is that at my last club, the only notification was via a large board outside the Pro Shop. You could also ring the Pro and ask, but getting through could sometimes take forever. If for some reason I hadn't been to the Club for a week or so, I could easily turn up and find 20-30 part time golfers tearing up the chipping area and dropping fag ends all over the course (massive generalization I know .)


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			On a slight tangent, for the Clubs that don't run a tee booking system, but allow society golf access on any given day. How do you know when the tee is booked for a visiting party? The reason I ask is that at my last club, the only notification was via a large board outside the Pro Shop. You could also ring the Pro and ask, but getting through could sometimes take forever. If for some reason I hadn't been to the Club for a week or so, I could easily turn up and find 20-30 part time golfers tearing up the chipping area and dropping fag ends all over the course (massive generalization I know .)
		
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At RAGC, There's a board by locker room which shows when there are societies/club matches and a calendar on the website. It isn't difficult.


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## guest100718 (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			On a slight tangent, for the Clubs that don't run a tee booking system, but allow society golf access on any given day. How do you know when the tee is booked for a visiting party? The reason I ask is that at my last club, the only notification was via a large board outside the Pro Shop. You could also ring the Pro and ask, but getting through could sometimes take forever. If for some reason I hadn't been to the Club for a week or so, I could easily turn up and find 20-30 part time golfers tearing up the chipping area and dropping fag ends all over the course (massive generalization I know .)
		
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Last time out with a society, we had the tee booked from 11am for 36 of us and a lady member kept telling us to hurry up because she had a match to play and we were holding her up.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What part of this is *SO* difficult. How do you prove it would be better and what part of the membership already having voted no seems to make you think they want it. Why introduce something universally unpopular that I have no doubt would drive some members away. How can you possibly quantify what does or doesn't work better. Exactly how would you prove it
		
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Why won't you answer my hypothetical question directly without being awkward? All it needed was yes or no

I don't know your system currently so I've no way to prove if it could be better, maybe it couldn't be bettered hence why my question was hypothetical. 

The reason I asked was this, many clubs have a membership who like routine, they play the same roll ups, they play the same time every week etc etc and one thing they all hate is change, they fear it. RAGC wouldn't be alone in this, my club were terrified to change to the online system, they were terrified when it was suggested that they would drop one tee time and space the groups out a minute or 2 on comp days in an effort to try and stop slow play. They fear change in case it won't work even if shown that it will.

Im not suggesting you should change or need to change or even try to convince you to change and quite frankly i couldn't care less whether you have an online system or not, it's your club.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			On a slight tangent, for the Clubs that don't run a tee booking system, but allow society golf access on any given day. How do you know when the tee is booked for a visiting party? The reason I ask is that at my last club, the only notification was via a large board outside the Pro Shop. You could also ring the Pro and ask, but getting through could sometimes take forever. If for some reason I hadn't been to the Club for a week or so, I could easily turn up and find 20-30 part time golfers tearing up the chipping area and dropping fag ends all over the course (massive generalization I know .)
		
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Thats what we had and to be fair you had to be away from the club a month not to know of these visiting parties bookings.


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## HawkeyeMS (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Why won't you answer my hypothetical question directly without being awkward? All it needed was yes or no

I don't know your system currently so I've no way to prove if it could be better, maybe it couldn't be bettered hence why my question was hypothetical. 

The reason I asked was this, many clubs have a membership who like routine, they play the same roll ups, they play the same time every week etc etc and one thing they all hate is change, they fear it. RAGC wouldn't be alone in this, my club were terrified to change to the online system, they were terrified when it was suggested that they would drop one tee time and space the groups out a minute or 2 on comp days in an effort to try and stop slow play. They fear change in case it won't work even if shown that it will.

Im not suggesting you should change or need to change or even try to convince you to change and quite frankly i couldn't care less whether you have an online system or not, it's your club.
		
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Not terrified of change, happy with what we have.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			On a slight tangent, for the Clubs that don't run a tee booking system, but allow society golf access on any given day. How do you know when the tee is booked for a visiting party? The reason I ask is that at my last club, the only notification was via a large board outside the Pro Shop. You could also ring the Pro and ask, but getting through could sometimes take forever. If for some reason I hadn't been to the Club for a week or so, I could easily turn up and find 20-30 part time golfers tearing up the chipping area and dropping fag ends all over the course (massive generalization I know .)
		
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Hayling use BRS for competitions, societies and visitors, the times are booked out on the sheet. The remaining times are reserved for members & guests and cannot be booked and these times are clearly visible online. 

Works very smoothly  :thup:


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Not terrified of change, happy with what we have.
		
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That is a good thing.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Hayling use BRS for competitions, societies and visitors, the times are booked out on the sheet. The remaining times are reserved for members & guests and cannot be booked and these times are clearly visible online. 

Works very smoothly  :thup:
		
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Wallasey have this set up too, times reserved for members only and bookable by members online so probably not like hayling. I'm unsure how they run their roll ups etc. though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Why won't you answer my hypothetical question directly without being awkward? All it needed was yes or no

I don't know your system currently so I've no way to prove if it could be better, maybe it couldn't be bettered hence why my question was hypothetical. 

The reason I asked was this, many clubs have a membership who like routine, they play the same roll ups, they play the same time every week etc etc and one thing they all hate is change, they fear it. RAGC wouldn't be alone in this, my club were terrified to change to the online system, they were terrified when it was suggested that they would drop one tee time and space the groups out a minute or 2 on comp days in an effort to try and stop slow play. They fear change in case it won't work even if shown that it will.

Im not suggesting you should change or need to change or even try to convince you to change and quite frankly i couldn't care less whether you have an online system or not, it's your club.
		
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Your turning a bore now and arguing for sake of it. If you couldn't care less why so many posts asking the same question. 

To the others, when we have a society or competition tee time, there are notices on the boards in each locker room (male and female), we have an events board two weeks outside the male locker room with events for the next two weeks and the times the tees are booked and all the information is published in the members section of the website so there's no excuse not to be aware.


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Maybe I'm not understanding the challenges some courses see so forgive me if it sounded like it was a dig...certainly not intended. Not telling anyone on here how there club should be run!

I just know that it works well at our place and that you dont need to book if you dont want to. You can take a chance and roll up, you will get on if there's space. What I dont get is (if you dont have a booking system) you are still going to struggle are you not? I mean getting on when its super busy ie. Sat and Sun am.

The only time our place is booked 2 hours solid is weekend mornings, occasionally during the week when societys and seniors etc have block booked tee's. A booking system allows you to see that online and you navigate around it.
		
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 The busiest time at my Club is Saturday mornings. Comps are booked so no problem. Non comp days I play in the roll up, or play earlier. Never had to wait more than a couple of groups. Only time I waited a long time is when playing a 4 bbb winter league match, and opponents insisted on play at 9.00. Did tell them it would be busy.  By 10.00 tee was free which was when I wanted to play. For some odd reason everyone doesn't turn up to play at the same time. 

It is not scientific but it works, not heard any complaints from members, and everyone gets a game. If your tee is fully booked for two hours, and I get there at the beginning of the booking I don't get a game, unless I wait two hours. How does that advantage me ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			On a slight tangent, for the Clubs that don't run a tee booking system, but allow society golf access on any given day. How do you know when the tee is booked for a visiting party? The reason I ask is that at my last club, the only notification was via a large board outside the Pro Shop. You could also ring the Pro and ask, but getting through could sometimes take forever. If for some reason I hadn't been to the Club for a week or so, I could easily turn up and find 20-30 part time golfers tearing up the chipping area and dropping fag ends all over the course (massive generalization I know .)
		
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Daily email , it's on the club website and it's also in the club online diary


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Your turning a bore now and arguing for sake of it. If you couldn't care less why so many posts asking the same question.
		
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Homer, you have just convinced me tonight that what others have said about you as correct which is unfortunate as I hadn't noticed it about you before.

I wasn't arguing I was genuinely curious hence my full explanation about clubs fearing change. You unfortunately were too ignorant and arrogant to answer a direct question. 

I'll know the next time.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Daily email , it's on the club website and it's also in the club online diary
		
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Is it near the online booking link?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Is it near the online booking link? 

Click to expand...

Yeah 

Just next to the link to book Santa


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			Homer, you have just convinced me tonight that what others have said about you as correct which is unfortunate as I hadn't noticed it about you before.

I wasn't arguing I was genuinely curious hence my full explanation about clubs fearing change. You unfortunately were too ignorant and arrogant to answer a direct question. 

I'll know the next time.
		
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Val

The point is you've asked the question several times and I've answered it fully every time. The problem is you seem to think that we may benefit from a booking system and that we don't know what we're missing until we introduce it. The members have said they are happy and voted a resounding I know. I really don't know what else you want me to say on the subject. I don't want it, don't think it's necessary and the fact we communicate well in advance and in numerous places means the members have no excuse not to know when events are on. 

Everyone seems to find a niche and fit their golf in and I don't think anyone is really struggling to get a game whether that's as a roll up group player or a social golfer playing with their mates. You may well be curious but I've explained the club doesn't fear change but simply doesn't see a need to make such a big change for something no one wants or for which there is no need. It's frustrating when you explain it several times and others inculding Hawkeye reiterate the same point


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

Club website? Ha, my last place had just enough sense to build a basic website, but not enough sense to update it more than once a year .. I did try to drag them into the 21st Century, but it would have meant dragging them through the 19th and 20th first...


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yeah 

Just next to the link to book Santa 

Click to expand...

 We have balls in the shute for Santa.


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			We have balls in the shute for Santa.

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Sounds painful, we just leave milk and cookies...


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Val

The point is you've asked the question several times and I've answered it fully every time. The problem is you seem to think that we may benefit from a booking system and that we don't know what we're missing until we introduce it. The members have said they are happy and voted a resounding I know. I really don't know what else you want me to say on the subject. I don't want it, don't think it's necessary and the fact we communicate well in advance and in numerous places means the members have no excuse not to know when events are on. 

Everyone seems to find a niche and fit their golf in and I don't think anyone is really struggling to get a game whether that's as a roll up group player or a social golfer playing with their mates. You may well be curious but I've explained the club doesn't fear change but simply doesn't see a need to make such a big change for something no one wants or for which there is no need. It's frustrating when you explain it several times and others inculding Hawkeye reiterate the same point
		
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Homer you didn't once answer yes or no, you said the same thing twice which was how could it be better. My question was purely hypothetical with the mindset of golf clubs fearing change rather than taking something that was better, even after explaining that mindset to you you didn't answer and became rude. The question could have been asked to anyone on this thread it just so happened that I followed you and Hawkeyes posts, I wasn't trying to convince you your club is wrong, right or whatever. Unfortunately you seem to think that was the case.

Like I said, you proved to me what others have said, you are rude, ignorant and arrogant, I hadn't seen it before but now i have so i'll know in future.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2014)

Why answer yes or no. I've explained the position. Others with a similar system on non-booking have said it works for them too but you seem to think I've become rude but there are only so many ways you can say the club is happy with the way we operate (Call it YES if it answers the question to your satisfaction) and the members don't want it. I've taken the time to answer as fully as I can and you resort to name calling. rude. Moi?


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

Val, how do you measure that a booking system works ? You introduce it at my Club, and 50 members leave. The remaining members think it is great, can't understand why it wasn't introduced earlier. Has it worked ? Club which breaks even currently, is now going to be losing Â£70,000 plus a year. We are a traditional members club, surrounded by other similar Clubs. Speak to our members, and the vast majority like me love the place, and don't want change. Upset them though and we risk them going and joining another decent course a few miles away. 

Getting new members to join a Club is great, but for most Clubs that is tens at most a year. Keeping existing members happy is far more important, as it is very easy to leave a Club. Look at the forumers that would leave if their Club introduced mats for three months in the winter. Over 50% of our members are seniors, and they are the hardest group to convince that change is good.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Why answer yes or no. I've explained the position. Others with a similar system on non-booking have said it works for them too but you seem to think I've become rude but there are only so many ways you can say the club is happy with the way we operate (Call it YES if it answers the question to your satisfaction) and the members don't want it. I've taken the time to answer as fully as I can and you resort to name calling. rude. Moi?
		
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The question only required Yes or No and I wont explain why again.

And yes, the minute you said I became a bore was the minute you became rude (amongst other things already highlighted).


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			Val, how do you measure that a booking system works ? You introduce it at my Club, and 50 members leave. The remaining members think it is great, can't understand why it wasn't introduced earlier. Has it worked ? Club which breaks even currently, is now going to be losing Â£70,000 plus a year. We are a traditional members club, surrounded by other similar Clubs. Speak to our members, and the vast majority like me love the place, and don't want change. Upset them though and we risk them going and joining another decent course a few miles away. 

Getting new members to join a Club is great, but for most Clubs that is tens at most a year. Keeping existing members happy is far more important, as it is very easy to leave a Club. Look at the forumers that would leave if their Club introduced mats for three months in the winter. Over 50% of our members are seniors, and they are the hardest group to convince that change is good.
		
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Unsure Rich, if you are saying 50 leave because of the online system then thats a failure and would need addressed for sure. Once we got into the crux of this debate it's without doubt apparent that a good non online system is better than a poor online system, there is a lot of trial and error to get it right. Ultimately for comps then online booking without doubt works best for most with Phils club being an example of using the best parts of both systems to their advantage. 

What I have seen is the demographics of clubs in your neck of the woods being different to what we have up here, you wont have a roll up on a Saturday at 99% of clubs in Scotland in season as that is comp day and the tee will be full way into the afternoon, but many clubs in the south (ie midlands or more south) seem to have fewer Saturday comps.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Us carpark members don't appear to be very popular .. If only 1 person would ask for the reason why we don't go into the clubhouse after most rounds.. Still, it's probably easier just to make a judgement and move on... 

Click to expand...

Genuine question - why don't you go into the clubhouse after?

I can understand people at times are stretched for time so won't alwats stay for a drink


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## NWJocko (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			Val, how do you measure that a booking system works ? You introduce it at my Club, and 50 members leave. The remaining members think it is great, can't understand why it wasn't introduced earlier. Has it worked ? Club which breaks even currently, is now going to be losing Â£70,000 plus a year. We are a traditional members club, surrounded by other similar Clubs. Speak to our members, and the vast majority like me love the place, and don't want change. Upset them though and we risk them going and joining another decent course a few miles away. 

Getting new members to join a Club is great, but for most Clubs that is tens at most a year. Keeping existing members happy is far more important, as it is very easy to leave a Club. Look at the forumers that would leave if their Club introduced mats for three months in the winter. Over 50% of our members are seniors, and they are the hardest group to convince that change is good.
		
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Not sure anyone suggested you should change, more providing the benefits to their club/circumstances as they see them.

I don't really like or agree with the inference that any club with a booking system isn't "a traditional members club"

Having learned more about how rock up and play clubs actually work (bookings for comps, arranged times for roll ups etc) the difference actually isn't as big as I thought.


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			I don't really like or agree with the inference that any club with a booking system isn't "a traditional members club"
		
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 I am not saying that and think you are reading too much into what I said. I only ever comment on my Club as that is all I know. We are a 'traditional' club in that we don't change much, our members on average are fairly old, and we have to compete against a lot of similar Clubs for members. The Club is over a 100 years old, and designed by Harry Colt. We make no changes to the course without referring to the Colt Foundation. That is what I would call a traditional club.

We do have a booking system for all competitions, and during the summer there is a competition most weekends, either on a Saturday or Sunday. A good balance between competitions and social golf I believe.

I don't have a problem with a booking system, and when I ring up another club to play which I do regularily, it is great to be able to book a tee time. I just don't want a full booking system at my club, as it doesn't suit me, and I believe it wouldn't suit a lot of other members.

Not sure why those with a booking system, seem to think they know best for a Club they know nothing about. I would never knock a club with one, and if someone has got that impression I apologise.


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## Val (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			I don't have a problem with a booking system, and when I ring up another club to play which I do regularily, it is great to be able to book a tee time. I just don't want a full booking system at my club, as it doesn't suit me, and I believe it wouldn't suit a lot of other members.

Not sure why those with a booking system, seem to think they know best for a Club they know nothing about. I would never knock a club with one, and if someone has got that impression I apologise.
		
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You are spot on Rich, I think what has become more apparent that when people look outside of their own clubs objectively and view the merits of the opposite system to what they have then there is a general acceptance of the merits of both systems. I personally think that for a lot of clubs a mix of both would work very well and using yours and Phils club as examples show that. Where clubs have a lot of roll up's then online systems can be difficult to work, we manage at ours with an online system but I know others can't see how it can work but it does.

Where cubs want to attract a number of visitors to their club in an effort to up their revenue then I think it's a no brainer having a full online system if possible. I said it before that if I had a choice of 2 clubs to visit, both similar in quality and price and one had an online system and the other I had to call up and see then id play the one with the online system because I can make the booking there and then and the job is done.


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## richart (Dec 11, 2014)

Val said:



			You are spot on Rich, I think what has become more apparent that when people look outside of their own clubs objectively and view the merits of the opposite system to what they have then there is a general acceptance of the merits of both systems. I personally think that for a lot of clubs a mix of both would work very well and using yours and Phils club as examples show that. Where clubs have a lot of roll up's then online systems can be difficult to work, we manage at ours with an online system but I know others can't see how it can work but it does.

Where cubs want to attract a number of visitors to their club in an effort to up their revenue then I think it's a no brainer having a full online system if possible. I said it before that if I had a choice of 2 clubs to visit, both similar in quality and price and one had an online system and the other I had to call up and see then id play the one with the online system because I can make the booking there and then and the job is done.
		
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 Good post Val.:thup:


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## bluewolf (Dec 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Genuine question - why don't you go into the clubhouse after?

I can understand people at times are stretched for time so won't alwats stay for a drink
		
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bluewolf said:



			I almost always use the clubhouse after a competition round. I'll make sure that there's enough time for a coffee with my PP's. The exception being midweek medals where I'm restricted by the same issues that stop me after social rounds. I don't have time. It's not that I have time, but choose otherwise. I genuinely don't have time. On several occasions this year I've left before finishing the round, never mind entering the clubhouse.. I can't tee off earlier, and I can't stay later..

Oh, and I've used the clubhouse at my new club quite a bit more than the previous club. The reason? My wife and kids are welcome. They can pop up after a round and have a nice lunch overlooking the 18th. At my previous club they wouldn't have been allowed in without wearing their Sunday best..
		
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Working nights means that I already have to sacrifice a couple of hours in bed to tee off at 11 (up at 10, walk the dog, 15 minutes to course, quick swish and away). I have to leave at 14:50 to pick up the kids from school. An average round at my course takes 3.5-4 hours due to the geography and walk between holes. :thup:


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## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2014)

richart said:



			Over 50% of our members are seniors, and they are the hardest group to convince that change is good.
		
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That's for sure! I was once told that the secret of succeeding with Seniors was being devious enough to simply plant the seed and patient enough for them to think that they came up with the idea! Women have been using a variation on that style for centuries!


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## NWJocko (Dec 12, 2014)

richart said:



			I am not saying that and think you are reading too much into what I said. I only ever comment on my Club as that is all I know. We are a 'traditional' club in that we don't change much, our members on average are fairly old, and we have to compete against a lot of similar Clubs for members. The Club is over a 100 years old, and designed by Harry Colt. We make no changes to the course without referring to the Colt Foundation. That is what I would call a traditional club.

We do have a booking system for all competitions, and during the summer there is a competition most weekends, either on a Saturday or Sunday. A good balance between competitions and social golf I believe.

I don't have a problem with a booking system, and when I ring up another club to play which I do regularily, it is great to be able to book a tee time. I just don't want a full booking system at my club, as it doesn't suit me, and I believe it wouldn't suit a lot of other members.

Not sure why those with a booking system, seem to think they know best for a Club they know nothing about. I would never knock a club with one, and if someone has got that impression I apologise.
		
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Apologies if that wasn't what you meant, maybe how I've interpreted a couple of posts.

My club is similar, well over 100 years old, Braid instead of Colt though.  I wasn't there when they changed to BRS but can imagine some of the membership were resistant to change, obviously not enough to stop it, who knows. My place would fall into "traditional" in my view.

I don't think anyone has tried to say what would be better for your club? Without knowing how it works all you can comment on is how things work at your own.

As I said, I've learned loads through this thread on how clubs can make it work without having never been a member anywhere with a roll up system (however it works, ball in chute etc).  It's actually a lot more structured than I thought and can see why it works.

If that continues I can see no reason why they would or should change, run for the members after all.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 12, 2014)

ANother traditional members club. We try and space competitions out over Saturdays and Sundays each month so there is always a day free for socila golf without any tee reservations. Even then, our booked tee times are only from 8.00-11.00 and so there's still a chance for people to turn up and go out after these times. In our case, it wasn't just the seniors that voted no. The majority of the ladies, who themselves make up a reasonable contingent of players, and those in 30-60 age bracket (the type golfers I typically play with in the roll ups) were all against it. We would undeniably lose a swathe of members of the club went ahead and the huge chunk of revenue that provides. Membership replacement never happens in such numbers and so it'll be alengthy process to get those numbers back.

As I've said, many times, members don't want a booking system and what we have works perfectly well for us. Even at peak time (non comp days) there are roll ups and gaps between the times these go out to accoomodate the needs of everyone. In the summer there's no need to book a time for an after work slot and plenty of opportunity to just decide to go to the club and play

We do accommodate green fees during the week and in fact, it's actually proved more helpful not having a booking system. A quick call to the shop would confirm if there was a club match or not but you then have the freedom to turn up and play at a time convenient to you. During the week, even with the roll up groups, there's never going to be a huge delay and we hav ethe option of a tenth tee start if the first is "busy." Indeed, you could argue that it benefits the so called car park golfers too, who may have a window of opportunity to play between school runs, kids clubs, work etc and so know they can rock up, put their shoes on and go out. Not something a booking system is flexible enough to do and while I appreciate you can always call the pro shop and see how busy it is, in hte summer, especially during the morning and lunchtime when players tend to start a round, the chances are a booking would be needed.


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## patricks148 (Dec 12, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Us carpark members don't appear to be very popular .. If only 1 person would ask for the reason why we don't go into the clubhouse after most rounds.. Still, it's probably easier just to make a judgement and move on... 

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well guys look at it this way, at least you are members of a club, which is more that can be said for the person having a pop


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## Hobbit (Dec 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We do accommodate green fees during the week and in fact, it's actually proved more helpful not having a booking system. A quick call to the shop would confirm if there was a club match or not but you then have the freedom to turn up and play at a time convenient to you. During the week, even with the roll up groups, there's never going to be a huge delay and we hav ethe option of a tenth tee start if the first is "busy." Indeed, you could argue that it benefits the so called car park golfers too, who may have a window of opportunity to play between school runs, kids clubs, work etc and so know they can rock up, put their shoes on and go out. Not something a booking system is flexible enough to do and while I appreciate you can always call the pro shop and see how busy it is, in hte summer, especially during the morning and lunchtime when players tend to start a round, the chances are a booking would be needed.
		
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We have a booking system, and more often than not I'll rock up on the way back from the office. No problem getting on. Occasionally I'll log onto the booking system for a tee time, especially if I'm taking guests. It works really well either way, its flexible. No doubt your version works really well at your club because your members are used to it and work with it.

However, with the booking system I've never had to wait 1hr 45mins next to a ball chute, on a cold winter's morning, which I did at my last club.


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## garyinderry (Dec 12, 2014)

why would the question of a booking system even be mooted if no one thought there was a problem?


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## Slab (Dec 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			ANother traditional members club. We try and space competitions out over Saturdays and Sundays each month so there is always a day free for socila golf without any tee reservations. Even then, our booked tee times are only from 8.00-11.00 and so there's still a chance for people to turn up and go out after these times. In our case, it wasn't just the seniors that voted no. The majority of the ladies, who themselves make up a reasonable contingent of players, and those in 30-60 age bracket (the type golfers I typically play with in the roll ups) were all against it. We would undeniably lose a swathe of members of the club went ahead and the huge chunk of revenue that provides. Membership replacement never happens in such numbers and so it'll be alengthy process to get those numbers back.

As I've said, many times, members don't want a booking system and what we have works perfectly well for us. Even at peak time (non comp days) there are roll ups and gaps between the times these go out to accoomodate the needs of everyone. In the summer there's no need to book a time for an after work slot and plenty of opportunity to just decide to go to the club and play

We do accommodate green fees during the week and in fact, it's actually proved more helpful not having a booking system. A quick call to the shop would confirm if there was a club match or not but you then have the freedom to turn up and play at a time convenient to you. During the week, even with the roll up groups, there's never going to be a huge delay and we hav ethe option of a tenth tee start if the first is "busy." Indeed, you could argue that it benefits the so called car park golfers too, who may have a window of opportunity to play between school runs, kids clubs, work etc and so know they can rock up, put their shoes on and go out. Not something a booking system is flexible enough to do and while I appreciate you can always call the pro shop and see how busy it is, in hte summer, especially during the morning and lunchtime when players tend to start a round, the chances are a booking would be needed.
		
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If the norm is to be able to turn up & go straight out it sounds like there's a lot of empty tee slots going to waste on the non-comp weekends, you know a booking system would allow the club to fill these with visitor green fees!


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## Val (Dec 12, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			why would the question of a booking system even be mooted if no one thought there was a problem?
		
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Potentially if the club was actively trying to encourage visitors or visiting parties, or trying to improve on what they have already?


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## garyinderry (Dec 12, 2014)

I think my old club have it right.   a comp lasts from sunrise to sunset. Anyone can book a tee time any time and go play.  You can land to the club and chances are you will get out without a problem as long as it isn't early doors sat or sun.

Closing off tees for hours due to comps is just pointless imho.  I've landed to lee park hoping to get 9 holes in to be told id have to wait till 11. That was over an hour wait and the first 3 holes were clear.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 12, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			I think my old club have it right.   a comp lasts from sunrise to sunset. Anyone can book a tee time any time and go play.  You can land to the club and chances are you will get out without a problem as long as it isn't early doors sat or sun.

Closing off tees for hours due to comps is just pointless imho.  I've landed to lee park hoping to get 9 holes in to be told id have to wait till 11. That was over an hour wait and the first 3 holes were clear.
		
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I could see that being a struggle if you are a single and don't know anyone?


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## garyinderry (Dec 12, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I could see that being a struggle if you are a single and don't know anyone?
		
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Most just play with their friends and if you land on your own you can ask in the shop and they will pair you with the next available for the comp.

They only do drawn comps for the majors.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 12, 2014)

Gary....do you travel to the course by helicopter?


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Gary....do you travel to the course by helicopter?
		
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We all do up here.. Don't you?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 12, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			We all do up here.. Don't you?
		
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No. I just had Big Jack design a course for me in my back garden instead


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2014)

drive4show said:



			No. I just had Big Jack design a course for me in my back garden instead  

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I thought about that in my back garden, but the Lake District is just too wet..


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## garyinderry (Dec 12, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Gary....do you travel to the course by helicopter?
		
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Only when I am late. Why do you ask? :thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 12, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Only when I am late. Why do you ask? :thup:
		
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You keep referring to 'landing' at the golf course


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## garyinderry (Dec 12, 2014)

drive4show said:



			You keep referring to 'landing' at the golf course  

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Quite often in Derry, the doorbell will go and we will be sitting in the middle of our dinner. 

As if there isn't something odd about that. :rofl:


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## garyinderry (Dec 12, 2014)

"go upstairs and thrown yourself down''




This means have a wee snooze.   :mmm:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 12, 2014)

Bit like the yanks.....

drive on the parkway and park on the driveway


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 12, 2014)

Slab said:



			If the norm is to be able to turn up & go straight out it sounds like there's a lot of empty tee slots going to waste on the non-comp weekends, you know a booking system would allow the club to fill these with visitor green fees! 

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We have booked tee times in the morning but you can roll up at a later time and enter the comp (as a three or four ball) and go out from there. We don't allow visitors unless as a member's guest at weekends anyway so a tee time is academic. In short, times aren't going to waste!


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2014)

On a slightly related note, I've just popped up to a golf club I'm thinking of joining in the new year. Their big selling point was that they keep the member numbers relatively low so that they don't have to have a booking system. They actively promote the "rock up and play" system. Plenty of roll ups and a decent social scene (if you're that way inclined).. Of course, their is a drawback, jacket and tie in the Dinner room after 6...  Hmmmm...


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 12, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			On a slightly related note, I've just popped up to a golf club I'm thinking of joining in the new year. Their big selling point was that they keep the member numbers relatively low so that they don't have to have a booking system. They actively promote the "rock up and play" system. Plenty of roll ups and a decent social scene (if you're that way inclined).. Of course, their is a drawback, jacket and tie in the Dinner room after 6...  Hmmmm...

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Sounds good to me! They have standards but they are not OTT. To be honest, how often are you likely to be in the dining room after 6pm anyway? I'm guessing you can still have bar food in the lounge?


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## Odvan (Dec 12, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			On a slightly related note, I've just popped up to a golf club I'm thinking of joining in the new year. Their big selling point was that they keep the member numbers relatively low so that they don't have to have a booking system. They actively promote the "rock up and play" system. Plenty of roll ups and a decent social scene (if you're that way inclined).. Of course, their is a drawback, jacket and tie in the Dinner room after 6...  Hmmmm...

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Which one Danny?


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Sounds good to me! They have standards but they are not OTT. To be honest, how often are you likely to be in the dining room after 6pm anyway? I'm guessing you can still have bar food in the lounge?
		
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Yeah, food available in the bar... Really liked it to be honest. The clubhouse is a small stately home with a moat 



Odvan said:



			Which one Danny?
		
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Wigan Golf Club at Arley (http://www.wigangolfclub.co.uk/).. It used to be the Club that you could only get in if you knew the secret handshake.. A bit more open now. I know one of the board members so getting in should be relatively easy.. It all depends on my usual PP. If he wants to move then we'll move. If not, then I've got a decision to make..


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## Odvan (Dec 12, 2014)

that chap who once broke his leg have owt to do with that place - I know you have a soft spot for him...


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2014)

Odvan said:



			that chap who once broke his leg have owt to do with that place - I know you have a soft spot for him...

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Got it in one mate. He's been a member for a while. I think he actually payed for the back 9 to be built. Not sure how much he plays now, but I know Prince Andrew is an honorary member and has played it twice...


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## Odvan (Dec 12, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Got it in one mate. He's been a member for a while. I think he actually payed for the back 9 to be built. Not sure how much he plays now, but I know Prince Andrew is an honorary member and has played it twice...

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I think I know why there was a strict interview process/secret handshake there then until recently - he/they wouldn't have liked any 'un-normal' folk joining . Then again nobody in Wigan is normal


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## bluewolf (Dec 12, 2014)

Odvan said:



			I think I know why there was a strict interview process/secret handshake there then until recently - he/they wouldn't have liked any 'un-normal' folk joining . Then again nobody in Wigan is normal 

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Naughty boy. Big Dave has got hundreds of non-normal friends don't you know


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