# Trying to understand Driver shafts



## jmcp (Dec 31, 2020)

Hi,

I have done some google searches and not really found what I think I am looking for so wondering if any of you have came across any good articles or YouTube videos that go into in-depth information about driver shafts and how they are designed and fitted as I am probably going to be replacing mines and would like to understand what exactly I should be looking to buy for my particular swing characteristics.

I know it would be simpler to go for a fitting to a pro but I would rather use this as a learning experience. Currently I use a Callaway Maverik sub zero with a Aldila Rogue 130 60x shaft and I fear it is on its way out as I am hearing creaking sounds (sounds like fibres snapping) from under the grip and near the head, this is my 2nd of these shafts as the first one went the same way and eventually gave way under the grip. I wasn’t fitted for this shaft, bought the club 2nd hand but really like it and trying to understand the shaft characteristics to Help me understand why it has suited me and why my previous driver/shaft maybe didn’t quite give me the ball flight I would like, actually, somewhere in between them would be ideal.

cheers, John


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## IainP (Dec 31, 2020)

It's very difficult.
Miyazaki tried for some standards a while back but it didn't catch on
Search for "miyazaki shaft codes"

You probably already came across reviews like:
https://pluggedingolf.com/aldila-rogue-white-130-msi-shaft-review/
(Might not be the correct one)


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## Deleted member 3432 (Dec 31, 2020)

Try TXG youtube channel.

All sorts of shafts getting tested, a search there may bring something up.


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## jim8flog (Dec 31, 2020)

I would agree with the comments about  Miyazaki a search on the net and you can see what it is all about.

There are  fundamentals (generalisations)

The flex (which will vary) manufacturer by manufacturer 

Torque which measures how much a shaft will twist in the swing 

Kick point - the higher the kick point the lower the flight

The weight of the raw shaft.

It is a pity but I cannot find it Aldila used to have a great chart to show the difference in all their shafts in terms of above.

Fujikura still do
https://fujikuragolf.com/education#launchspin
https://fujikuragolf.com/education#shaft-profile-guide


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## jmcp (Dec 31, 2020)

Thanks folks, 

the pluggedingolf review link, I hadn’t seen that one but will read it later.
also, I will search on Miyazaki as I haven’t heard of them before and will also check out the fujikura links

jim8flog, you mention the term kickpoint and these are the sort of characteristics that I know zilch about and want to understand.

I automatically thought that the stiffer a shaft is, the heavier it would be but that seems to be far from the case so, a lot to learn.

cheers, John


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## jim8flog (Dec 31, 2020)

jmcp said:



			Thanks folks,

the pluggedingolf review link, I hadn’t seen that one but will read it later.
also, I will search on Miyazaki as I haven’t heard of them before and will also check out the fujikura links

jim8flog, you mention the term kickpoint and these are the sort of characteristics that I know zilch about and want to understand.

I automatically thought that the stiffer a shaft is, the heavier it would be but that seems to be far from the case so, a lot to learn.

cheers, John
		
Click to expand...

In simple terms kickpoint is the point where the shaft will bend when the butt end is clamped down a pressure applied to to the head to cause the shaft to bend.

In  more detailed terms it is the point where the shaft will transition from head behind the shaft  to head in front of the shaft during the downswing (I do not mean by what happens with the hands relative to shaft position). There used to be some really good ultra slowmo videos of this but cannot find any) Just imagine the shaft changing to a C/G shape as it enters the hitting area.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 31, 2020)

You need to start with a few basics such as your swing speed, normal flight and shape of shot then work back from there to try to find out what you need from a shaft.


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## jmcp (Dec 31, 2020)

Well, after reading reviews from pluggedingolf, I seem to have the opposite outcomes for my shafts that the reviewer suggests you should have ie Evenflow T110 stiff for me is a very high flight and It feels like the ball has a weak flisn’t, doesn’t travel as far as I think it should for the strike,  not sure I am describing that very well but the reviewer reckons it is for someone looking for a lower more penetrating flight and then there is the Rogue 130 extra stiff, I get a low penetrating flight ( easily carries 15 yards further than the evenflow for what feels like a similar strike) whereas the reviewer reckons it is designed to give a high flight.

I will spend a bit of time reading up over the next few days before deciding on my next step.

I used to spend a fair bit of time in a studio with GCQuads and slashed away with my driver to  determine my swing speeds but I found that even with different drivers they would be quite different ie my Titleist TS2 with Evenflow white T110 stiff and Evenflow blue 6.5 extra stiff, I would max out at around 104mph but averaging approx 102mph but with my Maverik and Rogue 130 extra stiff, I would be averaging 106mph, smash factor was always better with the Titleist but carry distance was much better with the Maverik and much straighter, Titleist always seemed to have a little fade at the end of its flight.

Shafts seem to be a bit of a minefield and some reviews /analysis I have  looked at so far seem to contradict what I expected But hey ho, I’m sure I will get there in the end.

cheers, John


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## Mike79 (Jan 2, 2021)

Spent my Xmas holidays reading up on shafts, and only have the basics I’m afraid 

Titleist have a good chart that compares the launch and spin on various shafts 

https://images.app.goo.gl/E1DNtv8RL4Hq7K7m6

My driver (Titleist 915) wasn’t fitted - bought by family as a gift. It’s got the Diamana D+ 70 white. Launches too low for me. Also, regularly a miss to the right which makes me think stiff doesn’t work well for me. 

Using Trackman ball speed at the range, I crudely calculated with an assumed smash factor of approx 1.45, my swing speed would be low 90s. My 7 iron is just under 150y. Both these point towards regular flex. 

I’ve bought an Aldila Rogue M-AX in regular flex to try and see how that helps. This has mid-high launch and mid spin. If it does, great. If it doesn’t then I’ll organise a fitting to get more specific info.


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## jmcp (Jan 3, 2021)

I have had a look at an Aldila M-AX shaft as well, let me know how you get on with it. I have found the following article helpful to understand some of the technical characteristics of shafts but before I go out and spend some dosh on one, I would like to understand how I load my driver to help me make feel as if I am at least having a stab at an informed decision lol

https://www.golfalot.com/buyingguides/shafts.aspx

cheers, John


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## jmcp (Jan 24, 2021)

Thought I would update this, after quite a bit of reading I’ve slowly came to the conclusion that the best way to get a shaft that suits you is to get fitted for one (yeh, I’m a bit slow) but since that is not possible at the moment and I don’t have a lot of patience, I have ordered a Tensei blue pro 60 TX (2nd hand)  as a best guess based on manufacturers charts, info etc...

cheers, John


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## Mike79 (Jan 25, 2021)

Good way of doing it - that was my approach. Sadly, the shafts arrived after the lockdown started so have been stuck in the bag. Looking forward to getting out to see how they go sometime not too far away I hope...


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## virtuocity (Jan 26, 2021)

would one shaft cause a draw and another cause a slice? Between, say,  a stiff shaft and a reg shaft of any brand/model, what would be the maximum range expected in terms of rpm? I asked this question a couple of years ago but can’t remember if I got a clear answer- are there any studies which make statistically significant links between a shaft and a lower score? Shafts are (ridiculously) a contentious topic- therefore I need to mention that I’m generally curious and not trying to cause a stir.


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## Mike79 (Jan 26, 2021)

I read that a shaft which is too stiff can lead to an open face at impact and therefore a slice.


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## patricks148 (Jan 26, 2021)

virtuocity said:



			would one shaft cause a draw and another cause a slice? Between, say,  a stiff shaft and a reg shaft of any brand/model, what would be the maximum range expected in terms of rpm? I asked this question a couple of years ago but can’t remember if I got a clear answer- are there any studies which make statistically significant links between a shaft and a lower score? Shafts are (ridiculously) a contentious topic- therefore I need to mention that I’m generally curious and not trying to cause a stir.
		
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I'm not sure why, but my white tie shaft is great for a fade, its not that stiff and is light. i can hit a draw with it, but its so much easier to hit a fade. one of the other shafts i have the Motore F1, i can't hit a fade with it for toffee, hit a nice draw with it every time?? no idea  why though


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## Imurg (Jan 26, 2021)

patricks148 said:



			I'm not sure why, but my white tie shaft is great for a fade, its not that stiff and is light. i can hit a draw with it, but its so much easier to hit a fade. one of the other shafts i have the Motore F1, i can't hit a fade with it for toffee, hit a nice draw with it every time?? no idea  why though
		
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Because that's the way that YOU load the shaft 
Someone else could have very different results with the same set up.
As Tram says - no standards
You can only compare shafts from the same model when it comes to, for example, high launch is only relative to the other shafts of the same model.
Some "low launch" shafts launch higher than some "high launch" shafts...


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 26, 2021)

Traminator said:



			Personally I feel we all individually fit into a "range" of shafts, eg based on weight, flex and torque, and our own perception of the feel during the swing.  Our swing tempo can make a big difference, *2 players can have identical swing speeds at impact but how they get there can be totally different.*

It's another one of the old clichés that if it's too stiff, the ball will go right, and if the shaft is too soft the ball will hook.   With so many thousands of different shafts available, it's been proven time and again that those rigid rules sometimes can be true, but often not.

Bottom line is, there's no industry standards on flex, if we find something that gives us good distance and dispersion, and if we like the looks it's a bonus, that's the "right" shaft for the individual whatever it says on it.
		
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This ^^^

Apparently the Titleist shaft fitting mantra is "It's not how fast you swing, it's how you swing fast".


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## evemccc (Jan 26, 2021)

Maybe I’m too influenced by one of Crossfield’s videos as well as hours on TXG, but surely the primacy of strike is key..as in, the loft is caused by where on the club face you hit the ball?

NB: I’m in no way suggesting shafts aren’t important at all and I’m sure there’s a big difference in impacting where on the club face you hit the ball...but ultimately it must come down to strike first and foremost


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## Imurg (Jan 26, 2021)

evemccc said:



			Maybe I’m too influenced by one of Crossfield’s videos as well as hours on TXG, but surely the primacy of strike is key..as in, the loft is caused by where on the club face you hit the ball?

NB: I’m in no way suggesting shafts aren’t important at all and I’m sure there’s a big difference in impacting where on the club face you hit the ball...but ultimately it must come down to strike first and foremost
		
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But how do you get the strike?
The shaft is a timing device to help your swing present the face at the right speed, face angle and path to produce the best results.
With a shaft that is totally unsuitable your chances of getting that strike point right diminish greatly.


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## virtuocity (Jan 26, 2021)

patricks148 said:



			I'm not sure why, but my white tie shaft is great for a fade, its not that stiff and is light. i can hit a draw with it, but its so much easier to hit a fade. one of the other shafts i have the Motore F1, i can't hit a fade with it for toffee, hit a nice draw with it every time?? no idea  why though
		
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So shafts change club path too??


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## patricks148 (Jan 27, 2021)

virtuocity said:



			So shafts change club path too??
		
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No


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## patricks148 (Jan 27, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Because that's the way that YOU load the shaft
Someone else could have very different results with the same set up.
As Tram says - no standards
You can only compare shafts from the same model when it comes to, for example, high launch is only relative to the other shafts of the same model.
Some "low launch" shafts launch higher than some "high launch" shafts...
		
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Yes, the WT is a bit of a push if i try and draw it, when trying a fade i can be agressive with it, if i tray and set up the same and swing the same with the F1 its a bit of a pull. both shafts are the same weight.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jan 27, 2021)

patricks148 said:



			Yes, the WT is a bit of a push if i try and draw it, when trying a fade i can be agressive with it, if i tray and set up the same and swing the same with the F1 its a bit of a pull. both shafts are the same weight.
		
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Damn those pesky trees at Nairn you are having to bend the ball around off the tee


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## patricks148 (Jan 30, 2021)

saving_par said:



			Damn those pesky trees at Nairn you are having to bend the ball around off the tee 

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not much point in bending it around any tree's dear boy they are all OOB


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