# Gutted, Did not get the school place we wanted



## Alex1975 (Apr 16, 2015)

I am really devastated. My little girl goes to the best school in our village (1 of 3) in reception but we have just found out that she has not been accepted to stay there. I was so sure that she was going to stay that I have not given this any thought but I now feel like I have been hit in the head. GUTTED!!!

I understand there are no bad schools in our village but the one she has been accepted to is the largest and I just dont want her to get lost in a sea of other children....


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## JustOne (Apr 16, 2015)

Write a begging letter about what a great school it is and how community orientated you are, also mention the good friends your daughter has already made.... yada yada

Or accept that more people potentially = more friends :thup:


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Why has she not been given a place at this school?


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## JustOne (Apr 16, 2015)

^
^
He teaches S&T in the playground... so she's out!


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## Alex1975 (Apr 16, 2015)

I don't know much about the system.... I shall ask HID when I get home.


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I am really devastated. My little girl goes to the best school in our village (1 of 3) in reception but we have just found out that she has not been accepted to stay there. I was so sure that she was going to stay that I have not given this any thought but I now feel like I have been hit in the head. GUTTED!!!

I understand* there are no bad schools in our village* but the one she has been accepted to is the largest and I just dont want her to get lost in a sea of other children.... 

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That's alright then! 

As an aside, have you planned what age she will become PM?  Have you asked her how she feels about it - and have her close friends been accepted to the 'desired' one? Have you asked the school why?


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 16, 2015)

The three nearest village schools in my area have a combined capacity of 140 pupils.
Current pupil rolls are 28,38 and 9.

Two are excellent


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## Piece (Apr 16, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I am really devastated. My little girl goes to the best school in our village (1 of 3) in reception but we have just found out that she has not been accepted to stay there. I was so sure that she was going to stay that I have not given this any thought but I now feel like I have been hit in the head. GUTTED!!!

I understand there are no bad schools in our village but the one she has been accepted to is the largest and I just dont want her to get lost in a sea of other children.... 

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We're about to find out too. We got right royally shafted on the infant school, I sincerely hope it doesn't at this stage.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 16, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I am really devastated. My little girl goes to the best school in our village (1 of 3) in reception but we have just found out that she has not been accepted to stay there. I was so sure that she was going to stay that I have not given this any thought but I now feel like I have been hit in the head. GUTTED!!!

I understand there are no bad schools in our village but the one she has been accepted to is the largest and I just dont want her to get lost in a sea of other children.... 

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Very sad families have to go through this


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## chrisd (Apr 16, 2015)

It's a mystery to me why local kids don't go to their nearest school instead of parents ferrying their kids all over the place. All schools should be excellent then we wouldn't have this stupid situation


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## Imurg (Apr 16, 2015)

The problem is one of numbers.
Numbers of kids and numbers of schools.
In '97 a huge estate began construction on the edge of town - they built 1 Infant/Junior school.
Its not central to the estate and the catchment area is now down to just over 500 metres!
Live outside that area and you have little or no chance of going to that school. About 70% of the houses on the estate are 600+ metres from the school.
The next nearest school is a mile away.....


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## Foxholer (Apr 16, 2015)

chrisd said:



			It's a mystery to me why local kids don't go to their nearest school instead of parents ferrying their kids all over the place. *All schools should be excellent* then we wouldn't have this stupid situation
		
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By definition, this is impossible!


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## chrisd (Apr 16, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			By definition, this is impossible! 

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But you know the point I'm making


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## Midnight (Apr 16, 2015)

Mate, I feel your pain. My six year old did not get into the eight year old's school when we applied. We went through the appeals procedure but knew we stood no chance what so ever when one of the other parents turned up with a priest to speak for them (Catholic school).
Still at separate schools now.


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## Ethan (Apr 16, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			By definition, this is impossible! 

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Well it is not impossible that all schools are actually excellent (although the rating system will limit the numbers so classified).

Making all schools above average is. Whatever you do, 50% will always be below average.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

I have to say again that the problem is mainly driven by population increase.   The chickens are coming home to roost.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I have to say again that the problem is mainly driven by population increase.   The chickens are coming home to roost.
		
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Shall we go down the route of China and restrict the amount of children people are allowed

The problem appears to be not being able to go to the school they want their children to go to but there will be space at another.

More schools to chose from it better - so thats a good thing from the population increase -:thup:


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 16, 2015)

That's a gutter I do find it bizarre that you get a reception place but not year 1. Hope you can get an appeal.


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I have to say again that the problem is mainly driven by population increase.   The chickens are coming home to roost.
		
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Attempting not to be too pedantic, but how can you say the problem is Population increase? The OP stated that there are 2 other schools in the village. One of which his child has been accepted into. There are adequate spaces. 

As an aside, I know I don't have to tell you what happens when a population doesn't increase do I?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Attempting not to be too pedantic, but how can you say the problem is Population increase? The OP stated that there are 2 other schools in the village. One of which his child has been accepted into. There are adequate spaces. 

As an aside, I know I don't have to tell you what happens when a population doesn't increase do I?
		
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Have you not seen the problems schools have throughout the country with class sizes and the inability for them to supply enough places, also how bad this is projected to become in the future? 

This article may help your understanding: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32161851

I know I don't need to tell you what happens when the population increases too fast?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



*Shall we go down the route of China and restrict the amount of children people are allowed*

The problem appears to be not being able to go to the school they want their children to go to but there will be space at another.

More schools to chose from it better - so thats a good thing from the population increase -:thup:
		
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Thats a rather silly reply.  If you don't think we have a problem with school places due to population increase then come up with some facts rather than emotional claptrap.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Have you not seen the problems schools have throughout the country with class sizes and the inability for them to supply enough places, also how bad this is projected to become in the future? 

This article may help your understanding: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32161851

I know I don't need to tell you what happens when the population increases too fast?
		
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Serious question now, how would you deal with the growing population issues?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 16, 2015)

I think the OP has to at least ask the question why didn't my child get in and see what happens and consider an appeal


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Thats a rather silly reply.  If you don't think we have a problem with school places due to population increase then come up with some facts rather than emotional claptrap.
		
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Well it will stop the popualtion increase that you seem to use as a reason for every problem 

The population around where i live has grown - they have built new houses = jobs and income for the builders , built new schools = jobs for teachers, janitors etc , increased bus line = jobs for drivers , increased shops = more jobs - 

Do you get the picture now ?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Stuart_C said:



			Serious question now, how would you deal with the growing population issues?
		
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I honestly dont know as it's a reality not hypothetical.    I could suggest ways that may help to reduce it's acceleration and that would have to be a reverse the 'pull' factors that have created this situation.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well it will stop the popualtion increase that you seem to use as a reason for every problem 

The population around where i live has grown - they have built new houses = jobs and income for the builders , built new schools = jobs for teachers, janitors etc , increased bus line = jobs for drivers , increased shops = more jobs - 

Do you get the picture now ?
		
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There are very few issues that IMO would not be improved by a reduction in population, especially World population. 

Not your rose tinted glasses picture!  You do seem to live in perfect isolation to the issues that are affecting the country.   The rest of the country has a housing shortage that is just about impossible to address, they have school shortages such that there are real fears for the supply of places : Read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32161851.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Not your rose tinted glasses picture!  You do seem to live in perfect isolation to the issues that are affecting the country.   The rest of the country has a housing shortage that is just about impossible to address, they have school shortages such that there are real fears for the supply of places : Read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32161851.
		
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Notice in that article it suggests we are in the middle of a baby boom - so restriction of the amount of kids people will have ?


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Have you not seen the problems schools have throughout the country with class sizes and the inability for them to supply enough places, also how bad this is projected to become in the future? 

This article may help your understanding: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32161851

I know I don't need to tell you what happens when the population increases too fast?
		
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No, I've seen alarmist headlines and Local Authority scare stories. I prefer to look at the evidence in front of me every day when I take my 2 kids to school. Each of them got into the Schools we/they wanted. The Teachers do a fantastic job and infrastructure and facilities are far better than when I was at School in the 80's. Obviously, I can't comment on Schools around the Country, but then I suspect, neither can you..

Oh, and population increase is a necessary evil. The English fertility rate has been below 2 for several years.. Pensioners are becoming a ever increasing percentage of the population. The cost of the State Pension bill is rising every year, and will continue to rise as long as the Grey Vote is courted by all parties.. It can be argued that the rise is happening too fast, but if you shut the borders, then you're gonna have to persuade people to have more kids..


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Notice in that article it suggests we are in the middle of a baby boom - so restriction of the amount of kids people will have ?
		
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So what's the solution in your utopian world. Do you really think the Chinese method is going to work in western society? Not a hope. The issue has been festering away for decades and government after government has failed to address the problems of increased pupils and consequently the number of pupils not getting their first pick has increased year on year for ages


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Notice in that article it suggests we are in the middle of a baby boom - so restriction of the amount of kids people will have ?
		
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It's too late for that, the horse has bolted.   We are in the middle of a baby boom and you may not have taken it in yet but that tends to increase population


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			It's too late for that, the horse has bolted.   We are in the middle of a baby boom and you may not have taken it in yet but that tends to increase population 

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I do love the way you phrase these things.. Why don't you tell us what you would do to correct population increase globally?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			No, I've seen alarmist headlines and Local Authority scare stories. I prefer to look at the evidence in front of me every day when I take my 2 kids to school. Each of them got into the Schools we/they wanted. The Teachers do a fantastic job and infrastructure and facilities are far better than when I was at School in the 80's. Obviously, I can't comment on Schools around the Country, but then I suspect, neither can you..

Oh, and population increase is a necessary evil. The English fertility rate has been below 2 for several years.. Pensioners are becoming a ever increasing percentage of the population. The cost of the State Pension bill is rising every year, and will continue to rise as long as the Grey Vote is courted by all parties.. It can be argued that the rise is happening too fast, but if you shut the borders, then you're gonna have to persuade people to have more kids..

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Immigrants grow old and increase the ageing population further, so is the answer to have an exponential increase of them?  Sounds like the politics of the madhouse to me.   A controlled population would be best and before Phil chips in you dont need to sterilise people to achieve that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			It's too late for that, the horse has bolted.   We are in the middle of a baby boom and you may not have taken it in yet but that tends to increase population 

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No one has said there isnt a population increase - it appears its from a baby boom - so do you restrict the amount of kids people can have ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Immigrants grow old and increase the ageing population further, so is the answer to have an exponential increase of them?  Sounds like the politics of the madhouse to me.   A controlled population would be best and before Phil chips in you dont need to sterilise people to achieve that.
		
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So how do you control the population growth that is happening not just in the UK but is also happening around the world


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Immigrants grow old and increase the ageing population further, so is the answer to have an exponential increase of them?  Sounds like the politics of the madhouse to me.   A controlled population would be best and before Phil chips in you dont need to sterilise people to achieve that.
		
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But the immigrants arriving tend not to be pensioners.. They tend to be of working age. The majority pay tax, which helps to pay the pension pot.. I agree that it's a great big Pyramid scheme, but that's Capitalism for you.. If you want a long term fix, you're probably going to have to wipe out every 3rd World Country, use their land to build farms, and develop a form of Socialism that benefits only the rich.. It'd be a Brave New World wouldn't it?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I do love the way you phrase these things.. Why don't you tell us what you would do to correct population increase globally?
		
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Educate people and reward smaller families.    In saying this I am fairly convinced that globally we have passed the critical point where mankind can control the population such that it is not putting too much strain on the planets resources.   I guess nature will ultimately find a way of dealing with it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



*Educate people and reward smaller families*.    In saying this I am fairly convinced that globally we have passed the critical point where mankind can control the population such that it is not putting too much strain on the planets resources.   I guess nature will ultimately find a way of dealing with it.
		
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Educate them in what way ?

And What sort of reward ? More money for having less kids ?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			But the immigrants arriving tend not to be pensioners.. They tend to be of working age. The majority pay tax, which helps to pay the pension pot.. I agree that it's a great big Pyramid scheme, but that's Capitalism for you.. If you want a long term fix, you're probably going to have to wipe out every 3rd World Country, use their land to build farms, and develop a form of Socialism that benefits only the rich.. It'd be a Brave New World wouldn't it?
		
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The immigrants become pensioners and will need more to support them in their old age.    Regarding them all working and paying tax, thats a close run thing, the many doing low paid jobs are claiming tax credits and family allowances so the net tax in negligible.    I believe those from outside the EU have created a very large net loss to the exchequer.

Regarding your long term fix!   I take it thats a light hearted dig, if not then I wont bother with a reply.

Something to read: http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/1.37


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Educate them in what way ?

And What sort of reward ? More money for having less kids ?
		
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Contraception and the reality that their children are starving.  I do believe you would be better off rewarding people to have small families.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Contraception and the reality that their children are starving.  I do believe you would be better off rewarding people to have small families.
		
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maybe they want to have kids 

So you would basically pay people not to have kids


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			maybe they want to have kids 

So you would basically pay people not to have kids
		
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Yes.   Have you watched those poor little kids starving to death and not wondered why their parents are bringing them into the world.   It would be better to try and educate them not to have kids they cant feed and spend money on improving their health and welfare.


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Yes.   Have you watched those poor little kids starving to death and not wondered why their parents are bringing them into the world.   It would be better to try and educate them not to have kids they cant feed and spend money on improving their health and welfare.
		
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You're probably right.. Oh how I wish there wasn't some incredibly wealthy organisation that has brainwashed large swathes of the African continent into believing that contraception is evil.. Damn that religion and its influence on the demise of worldwide society..

Oh, and I like light hearted digs.. Where would we be without humour (except that Capitalism requires an increasing population )


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Yes.   Have you watched those poor little kids starving to death and not wondered why their parents are bringing them into the world.   It would be better to try and educate them not to have kids they cant feed and spend money on improving their health and welfare.
		
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And in this country ? 

Or is it getting close to the China model of restricting the amount of kids families can have - but just paying them to not have kids 

And a lot of people in the third world dont use contraceptive due to their religious beliefs.


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## c1973 (Apr 16, 2015)

What we need is another World War, that'll thin out the planet's population somewhat.  Schooling problem solved. 
:smirk:


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			It's too late for that, the horse has bolted.   We are in the middle of a baby boom and you may not have taken it in yet but that tends to increase population 

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Baby booms are not the main reason for population increase.

The main reason is people living longer. 150 years ago, you were lucky if grandparents lived to see their grandkids become youths. Now we have 4-5 generations on earth all at the same time, and not 2-3 generations as the norm. That is the main reason, not baby booms.

Separately, parents helping their kids, buying them books and encouraging them to get off the X-box can give them just as much a leg up in life, as going to the "right" school.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Baby booms are not the main reason for population increase.

The main reason is people living longer. 150 years ago, you were lucky if grandparents lived to see their grandkids become youths. Now we have 4-5 generations on earth all at the same time, and not 2-3 generations as the norm. That is the main reason, not baby booms.
		
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Can you support that with some proof?

Here are a few things for you to read:
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/15.5

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/15.2


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Can you support that with some proof
		
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Oh, you mean link some "article" that has someone elses words in, instead of using my own brains to say something.

No.

When David Attenborough was born there were 1 billion people on the planet, now we have over 9 billion - all a baby boom?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Oh, you mean link some "article" that has someone elses words in, instead of using my own brains to say something.

No.

When David Attenborough was born there were 1 billion people on the planet, now we have over 9 billion - all a baby boom?
		
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Yes, increased birthrate.   So you only have a gut feeling to back up your statement.  Are you an expert in the subject?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And in this country ? 

Or is it getting close to the China model of restricting the amount of kids families can have - but just paying them to not have kids 

And a lot of people in the third world dont use contraceptive due to their religious beliefs.
		
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We should restrict benefits  to have kids in this country as they dont tend to be starving to death and we dont have a need for increased birth rates.   That was brought in after the war.

Educating people on their religious beliefs is a priority in those countries, or do you think it's ok that they produce kids that will starve to death?


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Yes, increased birthrate.   So you only have a gut feeling to back up your statement?
		
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Leave my gut out of it, just cos it looks like I'm having a baby.....

Do the maths - 3 generations on this earth, compared to 4-5 on this earth - a lot more people. Anyway, I thought we were talking about this country. The same maths works.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Leave my gut out of it, just cos it looks like I'm having a baby.....

Do the maths - 3 generations on this earth, compared to 4-5 on this earth - a lot more people. Anyway, I thought we were talking about this country. The same maths works.
		
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Look at the links I posted, they are using expert statistics.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			We should restrict benefits  to have kids in this country as they dont tend to be starving to death and we dont have a need for increased birth rates.   That was brought in after the war.

Educating people on their religious beliefs is a priority in those countries, or do you think it's ok that they produce kids that will starve to death?
		
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So people who want to raise families in this country should stop now because we "dont have a need" ?!?!


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Look at the links I posted, they are using expert statistics.
		
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Nar, they'll just be produced by white, middle class golfers to further their  "new world order" agenda.

How does more generations on earth not mainly contribute to increased populations?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nar, they'll just be produced by white, middle class golfers to further their  "new world order" agenda.

How does more generations on earth not mainly contribute to increased populations?
		
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Created by the ONS.


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			We should restrict benefits  to have kids in this country as they dont tend to be starving to death and we dont have a need for increased birth rates.   That was brought in after the war.
		
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Whilst on the surface that sounds like an excellent plan, in reality it wouldn't work. For whatever reason, the first child to die after having benefits cut to the family would result in a media "dirt" storm that would result in never ending hand wringing from the Political Elite. Making children pay the price for the excesses of the adults seems a bit draconian to me..

 If you believe that the infrastructure of the UK is creaking under the weight of an increasing population (for whatever reason), and that this infrastructure is being massively underfunded due to the austerity measures imposed by the current Government. Then there are 2 distinct areas which could be at fault..

You can A) Blame the people who use the system.
Or        B) Blame the people who do not pay enough to fund the system..

   It amazes me that all i ever see on this forum is the blame for the woes of the UK economy laid firmly at the feet of the poorest in society. I don't recall the Teachers bonus system bringing down the economy. Or the unregulated gambling of the Police/Firemans Pension Scheme. I don't recall the Nurses bundling up vast swathes of bad debts and selling them on for huge profits. Or the minimum wage Factory worker "flipping" his homes to make maximum profit..

   Make the tax system simpler, and hold people accountable for the tax they are expected to pay.. You never know, we might just be able to build better Hospitals, Schools, Railways, Roads etc...

We're all in this together!! Not from where I'm sitting mate...


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So people who want to raise families in this country should stop now because we "dont have a need" ?!?!
		
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Who said that?   People will naturally want to have children but they should be prepared to support them. Currently many people who have large families are people who cant support them themselves which seems unfair on hard working people who restrict their children based on their income.   I would prefer us to stop family allowance but in reality it should be restricted to two children.  I still cant get my head around the amount of tax credits we pay, seems to me we should just tax people less and let them keep their money to spend as they wish.


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## JustOne (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Educate people and reward smaller families.    In saying this I am fairly convinced that globally we have passed the critical point where mankind can control the population such that it is not putting too much strain on the planets resources.   I guess nature will ultimately find a way of dealing with it.
		
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Saw a crappy comedy film the other day but the setting was quite interesting.... basically all the thick people were having loads and loads of kids and huge extended families living off benefits whilst the intelligent people mostly had little time for family as they had to work, so one or two kids at most...... 

Net result was the intelligence of the plant fell as it was swamped with thicko's and we were almost back to the stone age. Not to mix threads but these are the people who contribute the MOST to our election voting..... your future is in the hands of people who live off benefits!!! how awesome is that?!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Who said that?   People will naturally want to have children but they should be prepared to support them. Currently many people who have large families are people who cant support them themselves.   I would prefer us to stop family allowance but in reality it should be restricted to two children.  I still cant get my head around the amount of tax credits we pay, seems to me we should just tax people less and let them keep their money to spend as they wish.
		
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A great deal majority of people in the country are prepared to support their own children


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Who said that?   People will naturally want to have children but they should be prepared to support them. Currently many people who have large families are people who cant support them themselves which seems unfair on hard working people who restrict their children based on their income.
		
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It doesn't work.. It'll never work. You are trying to control population by effectively starving the people who have no choice. You are punishing the children for the sins of the parents...

Oh. and the birthrate in England is 1.94 (I think it was in 2012 anyway).


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

JustOne said:



			Saw a crappy comedy film the other day but the setting was quite interesting.... basically all the thick people were having loads and loads of kids and huge extended families living off benefits whilst the intelligent people mostly had little time for family as they had to work, so one or two kids at most...... 

Net result was the intelligence of the plant fell as it was swamped with thicko's and we were almost back to the stone age. Not to mix threads but these are the people who contribute the MOST to our election voting..... your future is in the hands of people who live off benefits!!! how awesome is that?!!
		
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Idiocracy.. One of my favourite films and a real vision of the Dystopian future...


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## chrisd (Apr 16, 2015)

The birth rate is a real problem ........ except for the call I got this evening saying my lovely niece is expecting in October!


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A great deal majority of people in the country are prepared to support their own children
		
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Cut their child benefits then.

What people also seem to miss is that we cant afford it.


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## Liverbirdie (Apr 16, 2015)

http://www.populstat.info/Europe/unkingdc.htm

Look at the population of the Uk over the last 100 years, or so. Every few years it tends to go up a million or so, but also go further back:-

10 mill in 1801
20 mill in 1851 - did we have 10 million immigrants in 50 years - no!
37 mill in 1901 - another 17 million?

And apart from some Huguenots, not massive immigration into the Uk in that century. Better and more food is one of the main drivers, even before better health, housing, social care, innoculations etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 16, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Cut their child benefits then.

What people also seem to miss is that we cant afford it.
		
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We can't afford a lot of things - ensuring children are fed and housed is something I would always prefer to see.


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## bluewolf (Apr 16, 2015)

chrisd said:



			The birth rate is a real problem ........ except for the call I got this evening saying my lovely niece is expecting in October!
		
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Firstly, Congratulations :thup:

Secondly, a little bit of digging has enlightened me. The Birthrate in England has dropped from 1.94 in 2012, to 1.85 in 2013. This well below the 2.1 that is necessary to sustain a population without immigration.. Ergo, the birthrate is a real problem, just not in the way you think..




SocketRocket said:



			Cut their child benefits then.

What people also seem to miss is that we cant afford it.
		
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Child benefit is already restricted to those who own over a specific amount.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 16, 2015)

Liverbirdie said:



http://www.populstat.info/Europe/unkingdc.htm

Look at the population of the Uk over the last 100 years, or so. Every few years it tends to go up a million or so, but also go further back:-

10 mill in 1801
20 mill in 1851 - did we have 10 million immigrants in 50 years - no!
37 mill in 1901 - another 17 million?

And apart from some Huguenots, not massive immigration into the Uk in that century. Better and more food is one of the main drivers, even before better health, housing, social care, innoculations etc
		
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All population increase in the UK is now due to immigration.   If you read the attached link it shows that if there were no more immigration the population of the UK would continue to rise due to those here already and then fall such that it would return to current levels at the end of the century.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/15.3


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## SocketRocket (Apr 17, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Firstly, Congratulations :thup:

Secondly, a little bit of digging has enlightened me. The Birthrate in England has dropped from 1.94 in 2012, to 1.85 in 2013. This well below the 2.1 that is necessary to sustain a population without immigration.. Ergo, the birthrate is a real problem, just not in the way you think..




Child benefit is already restricted to those who own over a specific amount.
		
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It's restricted by earnings not what you own.   I think one person earning over Â£50K which is silly.

I posted this previously but it shows the projections of population increase based on no further immigration and current levels.   Quite an eye opener:
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/15.3


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## ScienceBoy (Apr 17, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I know I don't need to tell you what happens when the population increases too fast?
		
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a Production penalty, a nasty combat penalty (-33%) for all units and cannot train settlers?


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## bluewolf (Apr 17, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			It's restricted by earnings not what you own.   I think one person earning over Â£50K which is silly.

I posted this previously but it shows the projections of population increase based on no further immigration and current levels.   Quite an eye opener:
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/15.3

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Yes, I meant Earn, not Own.. I'm struggling to do 3 things at once here.. ..

As I posted earlier, the birthrate in England is currently below 2 (1.85 in 2013). This means that without immigration, the population would be shrinking. Couple this with people living longer would lead to a Pension timebomb that would cripple this country.. As much as Immigration does lead to some problems, without it we would probably be much worse off.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 17, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Yes, I meant Earn, not Own.. I'm struggling to do 3 things at once here.. ..

As I posted earlier, the birthrate in England is currently below 2 (1.85 in 2013). This means that without immigration, the population would be shrinking. Couple this with people living longer would lead to a Pension timebomb that would cripple this country.. As much as Immigration does lead to some problems, without it we would probably be much worse off.
		
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Did you read the link?


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## bluewolf (Apr 17, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Did you read the link?
		
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Yes, and I'm always suspicious of conclusions reached by "Independent" think tanks. The statistics can be interpreted in many ways and are usually used to support the argument of whichever political party is pulling the strings behind the curtain..
The only real fact is that the birth rate in the UK is too low. If you could increase the birthrate to 2.2 or above, then I would support controlled immigration (although probably not as controlled as some would want). It has to be a genuine fear that the proportion of OAP's is rising too fast. There will not be enough taxpayers to support the country in the not too distant future. However, you appear to want to reduce the brithrate further, and then control immigration further.. It's a disaster waiting to happen..


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## JustOne (Apr 17, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Idiocracy.. One of my favourite films and a real vision of the Dystopian future... 

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That's the film :thup:.... utter crap film but judging by the neighbourhood I live in.... very believable


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## bluewolf (Apr 17, 2015)

I've just thought of something that might help. If you want to reduce population and immigration AND keep a working economy, then you need to think about reducing the population at the other end of the scale from where you're currently looking.... Sort of a "Logan's Run" policy..... 

Oh and before anyone jumps up and down, it's a joke.. I'm hoping to be a Pensioner myself one day...


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## Rooter (Apr 17, 2015)

Not read it all.i expect the one you applied for is known as the best one locally. I also expect it is not your catchment school. We have 1 school close that is excellent, we didn't even apply for it as we know that even people living in catchment can't get in it! 

The school my older 2 go to now have 3 classes per intake, that's 90 kids per year!!! Long way away from the school I went to that had less than 90 kids across all years!!

Unless you have a very very good reason, I doubt the appeal process will be fruitful. I would suggest you call the local admissions dept at the council and ask to go on the waiting list. Also ask your position on the waiting list. September is a long way off, people move house etc. 

It's a nightmare, we were lucky getting ours in where they are, our catchment school while by ofsted standards is excellent, no way on the world my kids would go there. I am no snob, but it's proper pikey. Parents fighting in the car park, a lot of troubled kids go there and suck the attention away from the rest.

Good luck Alex, my eldest got into the junior school she has been at, got this again next year when my lad goes from infants to juniors, and daughter 2 goes to infants. Then again the year after for no 4! Fingers crossed! We have a good case for appeals if it doesn't go our way with siblings...


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 17, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I have to say again that the problem is mainly driven by population increase.   The chickens are coming home to roost.
		
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Classic Farage there, textbook stuff, your great sweaty leader would be proud. The force is strong with this one.


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 17, 2015)

The bit I struggle to understand here with the OP is how can they accept a child into
Reception get them settled in and start the learning process make friends and get comfortable at school a big challenge for a 4 year old then some jobsworth decides they have to do it all over again the following sept it's barmy!


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 17, 2015)

pbrown7582 said:



			The bit I struggle to understand here with the OP is how can they accept a child into
Reception get them settled in and start the learning process make friends and get comfortable at school a big challenge for a 4 year old then some jobsworth decides they have to do it all over again the following sept it's barmy!
		
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As a school governor I find that a bit strange as well.  Especially as schools now will have to assess children as they come into reception to properly measure progress through the Key Stages.  And different schools will use different assessment methods, so keeping a child in one school from reception to the end of KS2 makes a lot of sense.

It may well be a numbers game as in KS1 you can not have classes of over 30.  So if you are looking like having over 30 (or multiples of 30) then you have to employ a new teacher which the school may well not be able to afford.  Hence the rather ruthless fact that some kids from reception can not go into KS1.

Also with regards to the OP's fear about their child getting lost in a big school then a lot of research says that smaller class sizes have much less effect on the quality of the teaching than people think.  And an outstanding teacher teaching a class of 30 will be better than an average teacher teaching a class of 15. So do not worry about that too much. Unless the teachers in the other school are average.


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## Rooter (Apr 17, 2015)

pbrown7582 said:



			The bit I struggle to understand here with the OP is how can they accept a child into
Reception get them settled in and start the learning process make friends and get comfortable at school a big challenge for a 4 year old then some jobsworth decides they have to do it all over again the following sept it's barmy!
		
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The council admissions have nowt to do with any pre school places. Problems lie in communication.


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 17, 2015)

Rooter said:



			The council admissions have nowt to do with any pre school places. Problems lie in communication.
		
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The admissions policy is a joke don't get me started on that! :sbox:

Have too agree with poor comms.


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## Adi2Dassler (Apr 17, 2015)

Not sure how it works in England, but in Scotland ( Edinburgh and in my case, Portobello) there are real issues with out of catchment kids resulting in major issues with over capacities in some schools folk assume are better than others, whose school role is significantly below capacity.

There is a simple solution.Stop allowing parents to take their children out of catchment, force parents to send their kids to their local school, even if that school isn't deemed as 'good' as next doors.Contribute to making the school you assume isn't good enough for your little cherub better.


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## Rooter (Apr 17, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			There is a simple solution.Stop allowing parents to take their children out of catchment, force parents to send their kids to their local school, even if that school isn't deemed as 'good' as next doors.Contribute to making the school you assume isn't good enough for your little cherub better.
		
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While in theory I agree, how can I improve a school where the problem are the pupils? Think benefit street and then think of their kids at your local catchment school. Want your kids going there being bessie mates with Chardonnay?


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## Foxholer (Apr 17, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I have to say again that the problem is mainly driven by population increase.   The chickens are coming home to roost.
		
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Perhaps a little perspective should be brought into this highly emotive topic!

UK Population increased by some 400K in the latest year that figures are available. 46% was due to net immigration, while 54% was due to births exceeding deaths.The increase is 0.63%. Making the assumption that there's an even spread both geographically and by age group/need - probably not realistic, but nevertheless... - then in a secondary school of 1000 pupils, that's going to be 6 more pupils each year and in the seriously large Hospital trust area of Surrey, the 2 hospitals service a 380k population, which will grow by about 2000 and has 636 beds - which will need to increase yearly by about 3. In a Primary School of 300 pupils, the yearly increase is about 2!

None of those figures really suggests any need to panic! 

What is needed is a commitment to provide the necessary services - rather than a token one as per Imurg's post. All governments have been guilty of failing to provide those resources, though they have been keen to sell off sports grounds etc to allow housing to be developed. That area, imo, should be contributing significantly - much more than it appears to be doing currently - to allow the services to be provided.That, to me, id 'proper' planning!


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 17, 2015)

Rooter said:



			While in theory I agree, *how can I improve a school where the problem are the pupils?* Think benefit street and then think of their kids at your local catchment school. Want your kids going there being bessie mates with Chardonnay?
		
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You could do as I did and become a school governor 

The problem is not totally the kids but the quality of the teachers/staff/head.  Yes I completely agree that it is much more difficult to teach a class full of hyperactive pencil eaters who have had a donut and can of coke for breakfast than a class full of attentive keen bight kids.  But the quality of teaching will also make a huge difference.


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## Alex1975 (Apr 17, 2015)

pbrown7582 said:



			The bit I struggle to understand here with the OP is how can they accept a child into
Reception get them settled in and start the learning process make friends and get comfortable at school a big challenge for a 4 year old then some jobsworth decides they have to do it all over again the following sept it's barmy!
		
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This is the upsetting bit. She is at home. The other night I was putting her to bed and she said to me "I cant wait for school tomorrow I really love it there".


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## Rooter (Apr 17, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			You could do as I did and become a school governor 

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You cant fundamentally change people though, if 75% of the pupils at the school I am talking about are from families that don't give a monkies, like you say feed them donuts for breakfast (if they are lucky) fight in the playground (parents! And yes that happened), arrive to collect them either drunk or high, what chance do the kids have? We were very lucky and got our first choice school which is not this catchment one. 

If we hadnt of got this, we would have got the kids christened catholic and got in the local catholic school. Not right as i am a confirmed atheist (wife is Catholic however) but we would have done it!


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## Rooter (Apr 17, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			This is the upsetting bit. She is at home. The other night I was putting her to bed and she said to me "I cant wait for school tomorrow I really love it there".
		
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Its a real Shame Al, as i said in my first post, get on the wait list and phone up a couple of times a week to check your progress on the list. Ours actually ended up at our second choice school, but once we had the place we were very happy, confirmed the place. Early August got a call saying there was a place at the 1st choice and did we want it. we were not even on the waiting list!!

Another thing to do now, is find out who else has the school you have been allocated and get your little one on some play days with future classmates.


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## Alex1975 (Apr 17, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Its a real Shame Al, as i said in my first post, get on the wait list and phone up a couple of times a week to check your progress on the list. Ours actually ended up at our second choice school, but once we had the place we were very happy, confirmed the place. Early August got a call saying there was a place at the 1st choice and did we want it. we were not even on the waiting list!!

Another thing to do now, is find out who else has the school you have been allocated and get your little one on some play days with future classmates.
		
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Thanks mate, we will do exactly that. Mel posted on a local FB page and got 34 replies saying good things about where she is due to go so that's great.


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## Rooter (Apr 17, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Thanks mate, we will do exactly that. Mel posted on a local FB page and got 34 replies saying good things about where she is due to go so that's great.
		
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Awesome! Oh and I have now played golf with 4 different dads from my kids school! none of which i would have met any other way!


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 17, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Thanks mate, we will do exactly that. Mel posted on a local FB page and got 34 replies saying good things about where she is due to go so that's great.
		
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You can also try https://parentview.ofsted.gov.uk/ but in some cases there's not a lot of feedback unless an ofsted visit is imminent. Also http://dashboard.ofsted.gov.uk/ should give you a decent overview of the school, plus you can see the full ofsted at http://reports.ofsted.gov.uk/ 

But 34 replies on FB is as good a recommendation as any as well.


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 17, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			This is the upsetting bit. She is at home. The other night I was putting her to bed and she said to me "I cant wait for school tomorrow I really love it there".
		
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Feel for you and your daughter that's how my lad was in reception, luckily we have been able to follow through from playgroup nursery reception to year 1, the school is top notch but isn't grim and is improving ESY and KS1 are excellent and KS2 is progressing but stability was our main concern.

The play days and visits are a great idea :thup:  up here there is a set day in july where all the children go to next years class school for the day to meet teachers and surroundings


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## Slab (Apr 17, 2015)

pbrown7582 said:



			The bit I struggle to understand here with the OP is how can they accept a child into
Reception *get them settled in and start the learning process make friends and get comfortable at school a big challenge for a 4 year old* then some jobsworth decides they have to do it all over again the following sept it's barmy!
		
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Is it really a big challenge for a 4yr old though?

I have some sympathy for the OP but not sure I understand the scale of this issue (& I don't mean nationwide) is this also logistically a problem for the family or is it solely about the child's experience 

Also wondering if as parents we naturally want to protect our offspring from any negative experience (even if the negative is perceived) and maybe don't appreciate their resilience (or even lack of concern) that they're capable of

What is Reception? I'm thinking its some level of pre-school so I'm wondering how many forum posters went through 'reception' and to what determent or harm did we come to

I really don't want to trivialise the issue but what if you move home, would you stay put simply to have a seamless transition from pre-school to primary 1 (we're not talking about a the most crucial stage in education)

I'm sure I cried/thought my world was ending plenty of times at that age but I don't remember even being 4 let alone have scars. So I'm sure it wont be pleasant news to break but there's a chance we make more of it that really exists


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 17, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			You could do as I did and become a school governor 

The problem is not totally the kids but the quality of the teachers/staff/head.  Yes I completely agree that it is much more difficult to teach a class full of hyperactive pencil eaters who have had a donut and can of coke for breakfast than a class full of attentive keen bight kids.  But the quality of teaching will also make a huge difference.
		
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Fair play to you, my wife is employed by council as clerk to school governors taking minutes and advising at committee and governors meetings so I understand a little what a highly responsible job volunteer governors have these days.


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## Alex1975 (Apr 17, 2015)

Slab said:



			Is it really a big challenge for a 4yr old though?

I have some sympathy for the OP but not sure I understand the scale of this issue (& I don't mean nationwide) is this also logistically a problem for the family or is it solely about the child's experience 

Also wondering if as parents we naturally want to protect our offspring from any negative experience (even if the negative is perceived) and maybe don't appreciate their resilience (or even lack of concern) that they're capable of

What is Reception? I'm thinking its some level of pre-school so I'm wondering how many forum posters went through 'reception' and to what determent or harm did we come to

I really don't want to trivialise the issue but what if you move home, would you stay put simply to have a seamless transition from pre-school to primary 1 (we're not talking about a the most crucial stage in education)

I'm sure I cried/thought my world was ending plenty of times at that age but I don't remember even being 4 let alone have scars. So I'm sure it wont be pleasant news to break but there's a chance we make more of it that really exists
		
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The core of this is... correct. A large part of this will be about my wife and my perception. My little one is amassing and will make it work but the school she is at now is... feels special. Its a mess but its full of life and smiles. I just wanted her to stay is it feels right.


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## Slab (Apr 17, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			The core of this is... correct. A large part of this will be about my wife and my perception. My little one is amassing and will make it work but the school she is at now is... feels special. Its a mess but its full of life and smiles. I just wanted her to stay is it feels right.
		
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And this is where you have a lot of sympathy, a change for change sake to something you didn't even want would be harder to take




P.s I appreciate you taking my post in the context it was intended. I thought more than once whether to post at all given it may be read negatively :thup:


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## Alex1975 (Apr 17, 2015)

Slab said:



			And this is where you have a lot of sympathy, a change for change sake to something you didn't even want would be harder to take




P.s I appreciate you taking my post in the context it was intended. I thought more than once whether to post at all given it may be read negatively :thup:
		
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Your post is without emotion where mine (this subject) is very emotional. It is very important to be pragmatic where possible. May will be educated and possibly very well. She might not care at all where she goes and the move might not make a jot of difference. 

Me as a daddy wants to ensure I am doing the very best thing in my power to make life good for her. I have never been trained as a father so I go with my gut but try and keep an eye on the fact that my gut may be overly emotionally driven. She needs to be pushed or she will be a princess but she also needs to be looked out for as she is an innocent. Its a fine line. In this case life will push(in the fact that this is a change). 

No one died, Al did not get what he wanted.... Yet.


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 17, 2015)

Rooter said:



			You cant fundamentally change people though, if 75% of the pupils at the school I am talking about are from families that don't give a monkies, like you say feed them donuts for breakfast (if they are lucky) fight in the playground (parents! And yes that happened), arrive to collect them either drunk or high, what chance do the kids have? We were very lucky and got our first choice school which is not this catchment one. 

If we hadnt of got this, we would have got the kids christened catholic and got in the local catholic school. Not right as i am a confirmed atheist (wife is Catholic however) but we would have done it!
		
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But again it is not the kids fault, especially at primary school age.  The logical extension of your argument may well be that all the kids with feckless parents go to one school and all the kids with nice middle parents go to another.  But then what chance will the kids have with feckless parents?  If they are allowed to integrate more with other types of kids then they might make more of their lives.  If you put them all together then there will be a much greater probability that it is just a continuing circle of decline.  Which will lead to even greater problems for us as a society later on.

I know that every parent wants what's best for their child. But you may be surprised how many of the admission panels and governors at these types of religious school are well aware of this practice of claiming you are Catholic/Buddhist/a Jedi just to get in.  And take great delight in testing the parents/child and telling them to do one when it's clear what they have done just to get into a school.  

If parents want a special education for their child surrounded by other kids who will grow up to be cabinet ministers so much then go private.  But if for whatever reason you don't want to do this then yo have to some extent take your chances in the maintained sector.


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 17, 2015)

pbrown7582 said:



			Fair play to you, my wife is employed by council as clerk to school governors taking minutes and advising at committee and governors meetings so I understand a little what a highly responsible job volunteer governors have these days.
		
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And fair play to your wife.  Clerking is an often undervalued role, I know ours is very useful and keep us on the straight and narrow a lot of the time.


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## NWJocko (Apr 17, 2015)

The whole "school choice" thing is interesting.

Went through it a couple of years back with my older daughter, circumstances a little different than most others.

Interesting that there is a "popular" school that parents were waiting up until midnight to see if their kid got a place.

The town I grew up in had one school (well 2 but religiously segregated) and everyone went there.

I often wonder what parents would do if there was only one school in their town? Would they be afraid that kids from less well off families or estates go there aswell?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2015)

If there is only one school then you just go to it. If there are 2 or 3 then you look for the best and feel disappointed if you don't get it even if they are all better than the 1st one in the first analogy. The point is you want the best for your kids, not second or third best. Having children makes you very protective of everything that they are involved in. That is parenting.


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## Alex1975 (Apr 17, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If there is only one school then you just go to it. If there are 2 or 3 then you look for the best and feel disappointed if you don't get it even if they are all better than the 1st one in the first analogy. The point is you want the best for your kids, not second or third best. Having children makes you very protective of everything that they are involved in. That is parenting.
		
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Yep!


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## NWJocko (Apr 17, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			If there is only one school then you just go to it. If there are 2 or 3 then you look for the best and feel disappointed if you don't get it even if they are all better than the 1st one in the first analogy. The point is you want the best for your kids, not second or third best. Having children makes you very protective of everything that they are involved in. That is parenting.
		
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Thanks for the lecture, I've 2 of my own. :thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 17, 2015)

Not meant as a lecture. Just pointing out for people who don't have kids why this matters to parents. If you did not have kids you may wonder what the fuss is all about and think, just get on with it. Your point was a fair one, if you have one school you just go to it. It is the pschological aspect of wanting the best for your kids.


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## Alex1975 (Apr 17, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not meant as a lecture. Just pointing out for people who don't have kids why this matters to people. If you did not have kids you may wonder what the fuss is all about and think, just get on with it.
		
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I think its what I would have thought a few years back.


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## Rooter (Apr 17, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			But again it is not the kids fault, especially at primary school age.  The logical extension of your argument may well be that all the kids with feckless parents go to one school and all the kids with nice middle parents go to another.  But then what chance will the kids have with feckless parents?  If they are allowed to integrate more with other types of kids then they might make more of their lives.  If you put them all together then there will be a much greater probability that it is just a continuing circle of decline.  Which will lead to even greater problems for us as a society later on.
		
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So I play a social experiment with my kids? nah you're OK. I think kids should get tested at 4yrs old. if they are smart enough (Not just IQ etc, I have not thought about the test in full yet) but put the exceptional kids together etc and teach them at a level that suits. Rather than bring the top achievers down to the average.

For example, my eldest is the oldest in her school year (birthday 1st week sept!), so for example when she turned 6 a lot of her classmates had only just turned 5. The difference at that age is vast. There is a lot to be said for having 2 intakes per calender year! Anyway, do you bring the lower achievers up to average at the detriment of not developing the top achievers to be exceptional?

And we would have sent them to private school should we not have got anywhere decent, couldn't afford to mind you! But we would have found a way..


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 17, 2015)

Rooter said:



			So I play a social experiment with my kids? nah you're OK. I think kids should get tested at 4yrs old. if they are smart enough (Not just IQ etc, I have not thought about the test in full yet) but put the exceptional kids together etc and teach them at a level that suits. Rather than bring the top achievers down to the average.

For example, my eldest is the oldest in her school year (birthday 1st week sept!), so for example when she turned 6 a lot of her classmates had only just turned 5. The difference at that age is vast. There is a lot to be said for having 2 intakes per calender year! Anyway, do you bring the lower achievers up to average at the detriment of not developing the top achievers to be exceptional?

And we would have sent them to private school should we not have got anywhere decent, couldn't afford to mind you! But we would have found a way..
		
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Depends on what you mean by 'putting the exceptional kids together'.  It is virtually impossible to properly stream kids from the age of 4, plus kids develop at vastly different rates.  This is something a lot of people seem to not understand as they think there is linear progress, where as there often is not.  Girls often develop much faster than boys for example at primary age.  But the boys catch up.  Other kids struggle at KS1 and then accelerate in KS2.  And vice versa.  

A good teacher will be able to stretch the more able whilst at the same time push the less able at the same time in the same class.  And that is done in any half decent class already and if you observed it you would see there is often 3 or 4 'mini classes' going on at once anyway.  If you mean separate them into different classes then in my opinion that is very problematic, especially if you are assessing them at the age of 4.  I wonder if you would have the same views if your child was one of the youngest and was potentially struggling in some areas due to no other reason than their age?  This kind of highlights the pressure the teachers are under as most parents (understandably) mostly want what is best for their child, and don't take more of a holistic view.

Plus the government and Ofsted is really focusing on 'closing the gap', so to try and ensure that disadvantaged kids (e.g. Free school meals, SEN), progress as much as non disadvantaged kids. Which again is a huge challenge for teachers under increasing financial constraints. As there is only so much focus one teacher plus a TA if they are lucky, can give.


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