# Pre-Registration of Supplementary Cards



## Swango1980 (Jun 5, 2020)

To any handicap secretaries out there, what actions do you take when members post supplementary cards, but there is no sign that they pre-registered?

Due to the Covid situation, I have asked any members wishing to post a supplementary card to e-mail me first (or message me directly via any other means). This has generally worked well, although there are one or two who e-mail me their scorecard without ever having told me they were playing in the first place. Up to now, I have been lenient, as I certainly don't want to appear obstructive. Of course, one thing I'd be looking out for is that I don't get a score from someone that results in a big handicap cut, with no pre-registration, as that could have signs of someone deciding to post a good round after they finish, or being pressured into doing so. So far, this has not been an issue.

In an ideal world, if a player does not pre-register, then the score is not accepted. If they do pre-register, and do not provide a score, then it is a no return and 0.1 increase. At least from an administration point of view. However, as said before, I'm not here to provide barriers for golfers who innocently forget to pre-register for example. Also, having discussed this with England Golf from a WHS perspective, it is my understanding that no scores should be refused, even if pre-registration did not happen. It would be even more difficult by then, as the player will have likely already entered their own score for handicap changes to take effect that night.

So, how do other clubs try an implement this? If all scores are accepted regardless, is it a case of other disciplinary procedures for example? Thanks


----------



## rulefan (Jun 5, 2020)

We haven't had to deal with this issue so far since the lockdown release but my inclination is to go with the EG (post WHS) view protem.
In principle, the more current scores the better for WHS transition but I would be very wary of accepting 'outlandish' scores or a second occurrence of 'forgetting to pre declare' after a reminder. Although I'm never too excited about a player's handicap coming down rather than going up. I can live with vanity cappers


----------



## Swango1980 (Jun 5, 2020)

rulefan said:



			We haven't had to deal with this issue so far since the lockdown release but my inclination is to go with the EG (post WHS) view protem.
In principle, the more current scores the better for WHS transition but I would be very wary of accepting 'outlandish' scores or a second occurrence of 'forgetting to pre declare' after a reminder. Although I'm never too excited about a player's handicap coming down rather than going up. I can live with vanity cappers 

Click to expand...

Cheers. Indeed, I'm not to bothered about the vanity golfer individually, except for the possibility their future scores may have on CSS, or the WHS equivalent (especially if we had a several vanity golfers). I'd also be concerned if they were pressured into submitting the score by others, as they may be peer pressured into a lower handicap than they would normally have (given all the 0.1 increases they'd be missing out on when play poorly).


----------



## chellie (Jun 5, 2020)

I'm not a handicap secretary but if they're not following the correct procedure they shouldn't be used imo.


----------



## rulefan (Jun 5, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Cheers. Indeed, I'm not to bothered about the vanity golfer individually, except for the possibility their future scores may have on CSS, or the WHS equivalent (especially if we had a several vanity golfers). I'd also be concerned if they were pressured into submitting the score by others, as they may be peer pressured into a lower handicap than they would normally have (given all the 0.1 increases they'd be missing out on when play poorly).
		
Click to expand...

I think the 'replacement' for CSS ie PCC is very unlikely to affect anything. The evidence from around the world suggests that conditions have to be extremely good or poor the calculation to kick in.
Of course supp scores don't involve CSS


----------



## rulefan (Jun 5, 2020)

chellie said:



			I'm not a handicap secretary but if they're not following the correct procedure they shouldn't be used imo.
		
Click to expand...

In normal circumstances I would strongly agree but the present situation causes both the player and the administrators some problems. In addition, I suspect there will be relatively few SSs and cheating would easily spotted. Further, as I said before, more recent scores will be reflected in a better measure of current ability.


----------



## rosecott (Jun 5, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			To any handicap secretaries out there, what actions do you take when members post supplementary cards, but there is no sign that they pre-registered?

Due to the Covid situation, I have asked any members wishing to post a supplementary card to e-mail me first (or message me directly via any other means). This has generally worked well, although there are one or two who e-mail me their scorecard without ever having told me they were playing in the first place. Up to now, I have been lenient, as I certainly don't want to appear obstructive. Of course, one thing I'd be looking out for is that I don't get a score from someone that results in a big handicap cut, with no pre-registration, as that could have signs of someone deciding to post a good round after they finish, or being pressured into doing so. So far, this has not been an issue.

In an ideal world, if a player does not pre-register, then the score is not accepted. If they do pre-register, and do not provide a score, then it is a no return and 0.1 increase. At least from an administration point of view. However, as said before, I'm not here to provide barriers for golfers who innocently forget to pre-register for example. Also, having discussed this with England Golf from a WHS perspective, it is my understanding that no scores should be refused, even if pre-registration did not happen. It would be even more difficult by then, as the player will have likely already entered their own score for handicap changes to take effect that night.

So, how do other clubs try an implement this? If all scores are accepted regardless, is it a case of other disciplinary procedures for example? Thanks
		
Click to expand...

If they were told how to pre-register intent and they failed to do that, then I would not accept the score. They go to the first tee with the intention of submitting a Supplementary so they must know what has to be done before play.


----------



## rulefan (Jun 5, 2020)

rosecott said:



			If they were told how to pre-register intent and they failed to do that, then I would not accept the score. They go to the first tee with the intention of submitting a Supplementary so they must know what has to be done before play.
		
Click to expand...

What is the current (as opposed to normal) procedure at your club for players to pre-register


----------



## rosecott (Jun 5, 2020)

rulefan said:



			What is the current (as opposed to normal) procedure at your club for players to pre-register
		
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with the system Swango devised at his club? He notified his members how to register for Supplementaries and some didn't bother to follow the guidance. What are you suggesting?


----------



## rulefan (Jun 6, 2020)

rosecott said:



			What does that have to do with the system Swango devised at his club? He notified his members how to register for Supplementaries and some didn't bother to follow the guidance. What are you suggesting?
		
Click to expand...

I haven't suggested anything, I just asked a question. What is your point?


----------



## rosecott (Jun 6, 2020)

rulefan said:



			I haven't suggested anything, I just asked a question. What is your point?
		
Click to expand...

I don't have a point. I was merely passing comment on Swango's original post.


----------



## rulefan (Jun 6, 2020)

rosecott said:



			I don't have a point. I was merely passing comment on Swango's original post.
		
Click to expand...

You asked *me* what* I* was suggesting. Why did you ask *me *?

However, Swango has already stated "_Also, having discussed this with England Golf from a WHS perspective, it is my understanding that no scores should be refused, even if pre-registration did not happen. " _


----------



## rulefan (Jun 6, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Not accepting a card from a golfer, especially a new one, who genuinely wants to get their handicap down to where it should be seems to smack of stuffy red tape to me.
		
Click to expand...

It would seem that EG are using green tape for the time being.


----------



## Old Skier (Jun 6, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Cheers. Indeed, I'm not to bothered about the vanity golfer individually, except for the possibility their future scores may have on CSS, or the WHS equivalent (especially if we had a several vanity golfers). I'd also be concerned if they were pressured into submitting the score by others, as they may be peer pressured into a lower handicap than they would normally have (given all the 0.1 increases they'd be missing out on when play poorly).
		
Click to expand...

As mean as it is, no registration, no supplementary card. We have to book in before we play so that's not a problem. All members have been emailed the procedures so the must follow them.


----------



## Old Skier (Jun 6, 2020)

rulefan said:



			You asked *me* what* I* was suggesting. Why did you ask *me *?

However, Swango has already stated "_Also, having discussed this with England Golf from a WHS perspective, it is my understanding that no scores should be refused, even if pre-registration did not happen. " _

Click to expand...

Like to see evidence of that as it's not in the guidance that came out.


----------



## Old Skier (Jun 6, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Not accepting a card from a golfer, especially a new one, who genuinely wants to get their handicap down to where it should be seems to smack of stuffy red tape to me.
		
Click to expand...

If it's a new golfer isn't it better that they start by adhering to the correct policies and procedures.


----------



## rulefan (Jun 6, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Like to see evidence of that as it's not in the guidance that came out.
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear


----------



## Old Skier (Jun 6, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Oh dear 

Click to expand...

Why if there's new clarification on this it would be good to know where it can be seen.


----------



## rulefan (Jun 6, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Why if there's new clarification on this it would be good to know where it can be seen.
		
Click to expand...

Swango implied he got from discussions with EG. But they don't usually broadcast things that are advice rather than a change to a handicapping rule.

"Clarifications" are produced by the R&A


----------



## Swango1980 (Jun 6, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Swango implied he got from discussions with EG. But they don't usually broadcast things that are advice rather than a change to a handicapping rule.

"Clarifications" are produced by the R&A 

Click to expand...

It was during a discussion, although it was based more on WHS. Practically, under WHS, a player doesn't pre register, enters their own supplementary, handicap record changes, and this only comes to light to handicap secretary a few days later. The handicap sec should not refuse a score for handicap (even if score or scorecard not entered, a score can be entered if found by other means, rather than a simple NR). 

So, despite not following pre registration guidelines, their score will still count. 

Under CONGU, from an admin point of view, it is easier to refuse score, as that score must always be entered by, or accepted by, the handicap committee before it goes into system. But, not under WHS.

So, given we are a few months from WHS, I don't want to start enforcing a strict policy now, when it will be impossible to enforce from November. Also, I want to give golfers the opportunity to enter as many scores as they wish, to help in their WHS calculation. Never much of an issue before, as supplementary cards were quite rare at our club. However, they have become more popular for members. Also  as all scores will be sent via email to me, I fully expect many of the physical scorecards will not have been posted when I get round to filing them away. That is inevitable, and I don't plan in chasing all the players this applies to, deleting scores or disciplining players for a likely innocent oversight


----------



## rulefan (Jun 6, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			It was during a discussion, although it was based more on WHS. Practically, under WHS, a player doesn't pre register, enters their own supplementary, handicap record changes, and this only comes to light to handicap secretary a few days later. The handicap sec should not refuse a score for handicap (even if score or scorecard not entered, a score can be entered if found by other means, rather than a simple NR).

So, despite not following pre registration guidelines, their score will still count.

Under CONGU, from an admin point of view, it is easier to refuse score, as that score must always be entered by, or accepted by, the handicap committee before it goes into system. But, not under WHS.

So, given we are a few months from WHS, I don't want to start enforcing a strict policy now, when it will be impossible to enforce from November. Also, I want to give golfers the opportunity to enter as many scores as they wish, to help in their WHS calculation. Never much of an issue before, as supplementary cards were quite rare at our club. However, they have become more popular for members. Also  as all scores will be sent via email to me, I fully expect many of the physical scorecards will not have been posted when I get round to filing them away. That is inevitable, and I don't plan in chasing all the players this applies to, deleting scores or disciplining players for a likely innocent oversight
		
Click to expand...

I suspect you have been relying on the US implementation re 'general play'.
The CONGU draft says 
(iii) Registering Intent to Submit a Score in General Play
A player is required to pre-register their intent to submit an acceptable score in general play for handicap purposes.
Such pre-registration must be made:
 - Before the player starts the round, and
 - In the manner prescribed by the Handicap Committee

The US makes no mention of this


----------



## jim8flog (Jun 6, 2020)

We have yet to implement new Supplementary Card  procedures but the first to come in will be via the IG app and my understanding of the app is that it cannot happen and with the app everything is automatic and does not need any committee involvement at any stage.

For those without the app we are probably going to go the email method, we have set up a specific email address for the process already.  My initial thoughts are that having set up a process for relatively few players that they will need to pay attention to what is required and must follow them.


----------



## rulefan (Jun 6, 2020)

The Yorkshire Union will be using the Golf Genius app for its contactless scoring for their next open. My club will be one of the trial clubs for ClubV1's app in the next week or so. I gather HandicapMaster have their app ready. And I think I saw post here saying the new Scottish system is up and running. So we seem to be catching up with the rest of the world.


----------



## rosecott (Jun 6, 2020)

rulefan said:



			The Yorkshire Union will be using the Golf Genius app for its contactless scoring for their next open. My club will be one of the trial clubs for ClubV1's app in the next week or so. I gather HandicapMaster have their app ready. And I think I saw post here saying the new Scottish system is up and running. So we seem to be catching up with the rest of the world.
		
Click to expand...

We have been running dummy comps this week using Handicapmaster and Masterscoreboard and it has been working a treat. We have our first qualifier tomorrow which will be very interesting.


----------



## Old Skier (Jun 7, 2020)

rulefan said:



			The Yorkshire Union will be using the Golf Genius app for its contactless scoring for their next open. My club will be one of the trial clubs for ClubV1's app in the next week or so. I gather HandicapMaster have their app ready. And I think I saw post here saying the new Scottish system is up and running. So we seem to be catching up with the rest of the world.
		
Click to expand...

Be interested in any feed back on the V1 app once it's up and running


----------

