# Driver dilemma - r15 vs 915d2



## Stuey01 (Apr 27, 2015)

So I went for a long game fitting at Celtic manor titleist national fitting centre on Saturday. I spent 2 hours bashing away with trackman and a pro.

I was dissatisfied with my current driver but also the whole make up of the top end of the bag, so I decided to go see a proper fitter and get sorted out.

I was fit into:
Driver: 915d2 8.5 degree, whiteboard 70 stiff
FW: 915fd 15degree 3w, whiteboard 80 stiff
Hybrid: 915fd 17.5 degree 2hy, whiteboard 90 stiff
 I was thinking of a 5w but the 2hybrid won out, a little shorter but for me it was automatic, straight and pretty long, certainly long enough to give me a really good tee option and par 5 2nd shot option.

The rest of my bag is mph4 3i then 4-pw mp64 irons, 52, 58 mpt11 wedges.

I bought the hybrid there and then, as they had it in stock and I got the fitting money taken off the price. I am ordering the 3w today.

So the configuration of my bag is now sorted, going to stop messing about with 4woods and 5 woods and 2iron etc.

Now my dilemma, I recently bought an r15 with TP stiff shaft.  In the fitting I actually hit this longer than the titleist. BUT I hit the titleist much straighter, I didn't have any real wide ones like I did with the TM, but best shot for best shot the r15 was better.
So I am inclined to go with the titleist, more fairways, consistency through the top end of the bag. There are two things making me pause:
1) the r15 is going to lose me money, i paid Â£400 for it with the upgraded shaft and I reckon I'm going to lose Â£150 at least upon selling it.
2) the r15 was longer on my best shots...

What would you do?

I think the answer is obvious, but I am struggling to commit to it.

Cheers
Stu


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## turkish (Apr 27, 2015)

As you say you already know the answer- as painful as it is take the Â£150 hit!!!


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## Deleted member 3432 (Apr 27, 2015)

Its about eliminating bad shots so ditch the R15. Bad shots kill a scorecard so very obvious to me.


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## garyinderry (Apr 27, 2015)

Remember that was how you were swinging on that particular days.    next time out the r15 might have been the stronger one.

I'd just stick with the r15. Get a couple of lessons if you see a recurring bad shot and fix that.


Or just but a new shiny. I honestly believe you have to hit clubs many times to find out what it can and can't do. The r15 isn't out long enough for you to have done that enough. Plus you have the adjustability side that can be tweaked.


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## Khamelion (Apr 27, 2015)

If a genie popped up and told me I had to make one choice out of the two he was going to give me and that that choice would be fixed for life.

1 - Hit massive 300+ yard drives, but no guarantee that any of them would ever find the fairway
or
2 - Hit 250-275yds drives but with every one landing on the fairway everytime.

I go for option 2, remember Distance is nothing without control.


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## JamesR (Apr 27, 2015)

Did you buy the TM based on a fitting or just because you fancied one and guessed the correct shaft?

Could it be that you just didn't swing it as well at this fitting and perhaps there is little difference between the 2 drivers when all is said and done?

Is the "wild" TM very wild, could it be straightened up, or is it just too far off the mark?


My personal choice is for length - I only hit driver when distance is the main aim, for shorter but more accurate I use 3 or 5 wood.


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## Alex1975 (Apr 27, 2015)

Dispersion is on you not the club, keep the R15...


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## bigslice (Apr 27, 2015)

straighter all the time , commit to the titleist


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 27, 2015)

did the fitters tweak offer an alternative shaft on Saturday for the r15 to bring it up to 915 standard?


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## LanDog (Apr 27, 2015)

I'd keep the R15. You can get lessons and save the Â£150 hit


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## Stuey01 (Apr 27, 2015)

Thanks for the thoughts.

In answer to a couple of queries:
- the TM was "fitted", I use the quotation marks because i would not really rate the fitting experience I went through. It was more hit all the latest drivers and which one seems best. 

 - didn't try any different shafts in the TM, but the pro at the titleist fitting did tweak the loft and weight settings to try and improve things. He was pretty happy with the shaft, felt it was similar to what he was recommending in the titleist.

 - I did hit some great shots with the TM in the fitting, and have done on the course. I know that I am responsible for dispersion, not the club, I can't explain why but I seemed to get away with a lot more with the titleist than I did with the TM.  
I am going to make bad swings, that's inevitable.

I'm going to see if I can get some on course testing with the 915d2, I know somewhere that will let me take a demo club out for some playing time.  That should help with the decision.


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## Martin70 (Apr 27, 2015)

Can I ask what are the settings you are using on the R15?

What loft is it adjusted or not to and where are the slide weights positioned?

I think I have got mine set up perfectly for me now - increased loft and maximum forgiveness means I am smashing it on the range into the fence when I couldn't reach before.

Going out on the course with it this weekend and cannot wait.


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## Stuey01 (Apr 27, 2015)

10.5 460 head. Set two clicks lower with weights in the neutral centre position, is hit I had it.

Fitter moved it down to the lowest setting and spread the weights a bit.

Will try it a bit more like this before giving up on it.


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## pbrown7582 (Apr 27, 2015)

that should increase forgiveness in the R15 I think.


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## the_coach (Apr 27, 2015)

as folks have said equipment can make some difference the biggest factor though as always is how it's used. 
although folks perception whether 'true or false' about different clubs affects the mental outlook some which can also affect results. 

the 9i5 d2 with the 'channel' the most forgiving driver head Titliest produced so far. but that said the greatest improvement in driving would be spending the money on a series of lessons & keeping the r15. 
so you should see a bunch of improvement in the results plus in the end if you can't get the 915 out of the head. over time of lessons & working with the r15 to get the optimum settings at the very least there is bound to be some months down the road a bunch of cheaper second hand 915's on the market put there by folks who still think it's the equipment not the technique .......

the 2 weights in center position is in the 'least forgiving' setting with the r15. the lower the loft in general the more potential to hit it left or right plus you need to generate more club head speed to get launch & flight for optimum distance.

much depends if there's a common pattern to the misses with the r15, & what that pattern is as to what's the cause.

getting the optimum distance possible for any swing speed with good accuracy is about AoA, launch angle, spin loft, path & club face stability through strike. 
if you know the numbers you have a handle on what to work on to improve whatever the make of driver. also if you now the numbers & results with the r15 will show you what to work on first. - as a good guide, AoA someways between 0Âº & +6Âº, with the smallest differential between swing path in degrees to face angle at impact in degrees, LA guide at least 11Âº. 
most important - a consistent sweet spot strike & often times the biggest issue along with technique in having that good strike location is a shaft that's too long. 
most folks would get more out of their driver with a length circa 43"/44" rather than the stock 45"/45+".

would set the 2 weights at the furthest toe & heel setting which gives you the biggest MOI so clubface stability through your strike pattern so forgiveness. 

then hit a bunch of shots monitoring accuracy & distance. then one increment at a time bring both weights towards the middle hitting a bunch of shots at each setting noting both acc+dist. should then show you which setting you get both optimum distance + accuracy before the dispersion drops off some. would also start with the highest loft setting first off.


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## hines57 (Apr 27, 2015)

I'd like to say just go witht the d2, but i'd certainly speak with a fitter to see if the TM can be set to mantain the distance but eliminate the dispersion problem.

if a setting change can tighten the dispersion - stick with the TM.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 27, 2015)

LanDog said:



			I'd keep the R15. You can get lessons and save the Â£150 hit
		
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Fully understand that.......

But what would happen if he bought the 915 and had a couple of lessons. 
Would it be possible to get a bit more distance and still hitting the fairway ?

i say this because I have the SLDR and have struggled with it, so much so I had a lesson two week ago with a view to changing my driver. The coach had me hit loads of seven irons as my swing was atrocious. I have been hitting my irons gorgeous this last week or so but my driver is still all over the place.


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## Stuey01 (Apr 27, 2015)

Launching both drivers set at 8.5 loft between 13 and 15 degrees, dynamic loft at impact according to trackman in the area of 17-19 degrees. Spin in the high 2000s on decent strikes, well over 3000 when I get my low heely strike that is my usual miss with the driver. Ball speed 155-160 on average.
Last time I was on a launch monitor I had a 4 degree up angle of attack, but after working on some things that have improved my iron striking significantly I was surprised to see I am now level to a degree or two down. So that's something I need to work on and is obviously hurting me on the spin numbers.

When I get my low heely strike I get a high spinny left to right shot. The big difference between the 2 clubs was that the TM was off the planet right on this shot, but the titleist seemed to mitigate it a little and would have been in play. Lost big distance with both clubs on this shot as you'd expect.

I have arranged to borrow a 915d2 with the right shaft in it for this weekend so I'll hit them head to head again and maybe get some course time with the titleist for comparison purposes.

Ordered my 915fd 3w today   :thup:


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## One Planer (Apr 27, 2015)

Stick the Titleist shaft in the R15


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 27, 2015)

It's tricky. Even though the D2 was a more accurate club today will that be the case on the course. We all have off days and the fact you can hit the TM well and long would suggest it can be tamed and I'd be as bold as to suggest your bad one is caused by you trying to cream the cover off it and not a lot else. If you reigned back with the TM and swung it as smoothly as the D2 then I think you'll find dispersion will improve without compromising distance


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## LanDog (Apr 28, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			Fully understand that.......

But what would happen if he bought the 915 and had a couple of lessons. 
Would it be possible to get a bit more distance and still hitting the fairway ?

i say this because I have the SLDR and have struggled with it, so much so I had a lesson two week ago with a view to changing my driver. The coach had me hit loads of seven irons as my swing was atrocious. I have been hitting my irons gorgeous this last week or so but my driver is still all over the place.
		
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The SLDR is quite a hard driver to hit, the R15 is supposed to be easier to control. Stuey have you compared the two side by side under the same conditions?


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## Stuey01 (Apr 28, 2015)

LanDog said:



			The SLDR is quite a hard driver to hit, the R15 is supposed to be easier to control. Stuey have you compared the two side by side under the same conditions?
		
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They were both hit on the same day at the same place using the same balls, one after the other on trackman, watched by a pga pro at Celtic Manor.
I hit a lot of balls with each club, first the TM, then the titleist til it was dialled in, then the TM again, then the titleist again.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Apr 28, 2015)

Still a no brainer for me. Would not consider buying a driver that I found difficult to control no matter how long it was because its no fun chopping your second shot sideways to get it hack in play.


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## LanDog (Apr 28, 2015)

Stuey01 said:



			They were both hit on the same day at the same place using the same balls, one after the other on trackman, watched by a pga pro at Celtic Manor.
I hit a lot of balls with each club, first the TM, then the titleist til it was dialled in, then the TM again, then the titleist again.
		
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Right I can completely understand why you want to change, I do think more testing on course would be good if possible


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## Stuey01 (Apr 28, 2015)

Thanks for all the comments.

I have confirmed that I can borrow a 915d2 in the right specs for this weekend, so I shall try it again, and on the course.
The r15 is an excellent club. Am going to try some more settings on that too.

It is fine margins between them, they are after all both current clubs in similar specs, the shaft in the TM is a 69g vs I think 71g in the titleist, they are both at the stout end of stiff flex, similar loft and tbh the performance is not very different at all. 
I just found in testing that I did have an occasional big miss with the r15 (that I have had on the course too) that I didn't with the 915d2, or at least wasn't as severe when I put that shonky swing on it. But on the positive for the r15, the best shots were further.  I didn't get the 915d2 carrying over 260y very often, mostly in the 250's, but the r15 would get up there into the 260s.

I clearly have some work to do on my swing, the change from hitting 4degrees up to 1-2degrees down is an effect of working have been doing to improve my iron striking, which has improved.  It is clearly hurting me with both clubs as my spinloft and spin numbers are too high.  I am presenting a lot of loft at impact, even with an 8.5 degree driver, so there are a couple of things to work on.

I am thinking that I may be best served by working on those things then get another fitting when I have improved those factors as they could effect the loft I may need.


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## Stuey01 (May 4, 2015)

So I played two rounds this weekend with a demo 915d2 and 915fd, had so much confidence in the 915d2, FD and HD this weekend. Brilliant clubs, I hit them great all weekend.
My r15 has been sold on eBay and I'm ordering the titleist tomorrow.  The money lost on the r15 stings a bit, but I'm happy with the change.


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## Tiger man (May 4, 2015)

Stuey01 said:



			So I played two rounds this weekend with a demo 915d2 and 915fd, had so much confidence in the 915d2, FD and HD this weekend. Brilliant clubs, I hit them great all weekend.
My r15 has been sold on eBay and I'm ordering the titleist tomorrow.  The money lost on the r15 stings a bit, but I'm happy with the change.
		
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Confidence is massive and you know if you kept the R15 that doubt would always be there. Good choice wish I had the spare cash to do the same as I love the 915 line up! Should never have demo'd it


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## Stuey01 (May 5, 2015)

Tiger man said:



			Confidence is massive and you know if you kept the R15 that doubt would always be there. Good choice wish I had the spare cash to do the same as I love the 915 line up! Should never have demo'd it

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It is lovely. Driver is LOUD though, sounds way different to the r15.
I seriously couldn't miss with it all weekend.
The fairway and hybrid are even better.


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## SAPCOR1 (May 5, 2015)

According to Barney Adams you should only hit a couple of shots with each club whilst testing.

After that he suggests that you adapt to the club that you are hitting at the time.  Hitting ball after ball is a waste of time


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## Oddsocks (May 5, 2015)

Sell the r15 head and shaft separate - the heads almost make full club money, and shaft geeks love and upgrade :thup:


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## garyinderry (May 5, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			According to Barney Adams you should only hit a couple of shots with each club whilst testing.

After that he suggests that you adapt to the club that you are hitting at the time.  Hitting ball after ball is a waste of time
		
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Ive read that myself.  Can't say I agree.    many times its take me quite some time to get used to a golf club.   the latest club has been an r11 3wood.  Took me about two week to work out I can hit a pretty solid fade with this whereas my normal shot would be a draw.  If I only hit 3 shots the club would be in the spares pile.


Jordan spieth says he isn't comfortable with any new club till he has hit it thousands of times. 

Take the Mizuno jpx850 driver for example.  Straight out of the box it looked lovely but didn't blow me away performance wise. It has taken quite some time to reveal its inner workings and now is firmly up top in my bag.


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## SAPCOR1 (May 5, 2015)

V



garyinderry said:



			Ive read that myself.  Can't say I agree.    many times its take me quite some time to get used to a golf club.   the latest club has been an r11 3wood.  Took me about two week to work out I can hit a pretty solid fade with this whereas my normal shot would be a draw.  If I only hit 3 shots the club would be in the spares pile.


Jordan spieth says he isn't comfortable with any new club till he has hit it thousands of times. 

Take the Mizuno jpx850 driver for example.  Straight out of the box it looked lovely but didn't blow me away performance wise. It has taken quite some time to reveal its inner workings and now is firmly up top in my bag.
		
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I would argue what you have said there is exactly what Barney Adams stated lol


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## garyinderry (May 5, 2015)

When you get a club, any club you will always hit it more than 3 times.  in fact you can hit it many times before you even state your round if there is a net or range so there is always the opportunity to adjust to the club.

if you magically pick up a club and pound it down the middle there will be an element of luck in the loft, flex, face orientation and weight. 

you have to get a club that's repeatable. I would argue you need to take time with this.  He said he wanted to find a club under course conditions.  Everyone (apart from a few on here) have a club in the bag long enough to get used to it. Learn the ins and outs and usually improve. 

I like to read barneys articles but he was smoking some wacky stuff when he was on this quest.


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## SAPCOR1 (May 5, 2015)

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garyinderry said:



			When you get a club, any club you will always hit it more than 3 times.  in fact you can hit it many times before you even state your round if there is a net or range so there is always the opportunity to adjust to the club.

if you magically pick up a club and pound it down the middle there will be an element of luck in the loft, flex, face orientation and weight. 

you have to get a club that's repeatable. I would argue you need to take time with this.  He said he wanted to find a club under course conditions.  Everyone (apart from a few on here) have a club in the bag long enough to get used to it. Learn the ins and outs and usually improve. 

I like to read barneys articles but he was smoking some wacky stuff when he was on this quest.
		
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I would tend to agree more with your point than his, however I does make you think and he should know a thing or two on the subject


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## Stuey01 (May 5, 2015)

Oddsocks said:



			Sell the r15 head and shaft separate - the heads almost make full club money, and shaft geeks love and upgrade :thup:
		
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Too late, it's already gone


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