# What's the ruling when a ball is lost when it definitely wasn't 'lost'?



## barrybridges (Apr 24, 2012)

The following happened to me at the weekend - and it's not the first time it's happened either.

1st tee on a very simple hole. Hit a hybrid straight down the middle - flies nice and dead straight towards the hole - but I can't see it land because it's over the other side of a raised bunker.

The hole has no other hazards on it and is very very wide. I was as dead centre as can be. The image of the hole is here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=god...77,28.256836&t=h&hq=godstone+golf+course&z=18

Walk up to play my second shot and the ball is absolutely nowhere to be found. It 100% definitely cleared the bunker (and crucially, it wasn't IN the bunker), couldn't have travelled beyond the hole (as it would need to have travelled 150yrds further then I normally hit it) and couldn't have deflected left/right given the width of the fairway.

The grass is cut nice and short and I saw it travel straight. No rabbit holes, trees, obstacles, bunkers, water etc - it really couldn't have gone anywhere (but obviously, it did).

What's the situation when a ball is virtually certainly not to be lost, but can't be found? I took a stroke penalty and played from the tee again, but it seems a bit harsh for what was actually a good shot.


----------



## DCB (Apr 24, 2012)

No old folk out on the course ?

You did the correct thing. If the ball couldn't be found within five minutes of you getting to the area you expected it to be in, the ball became a lost ball. You had no option but to go back and play off the tee again since that was where your last shot was played from.


----------



## BTatHome (Apr 24, 2012)

If its not in a water hazard and you haven't seen someone/thing pick it up and run off with it, then it'll be lost after 5 mins of searching.


----------



## Wheyayeman (Apr 24, 2012)

If you can't find your ball its lost, even if the seagulls have it


----------



## Little Jockey (Apr 24, 2012)

Got to be the old folk, no doubt about it!


----------



## williamalex1 (Apr 24, 2012)

we had this at a course we played , a guy was sending his dog on to lift the balls , another time it was a magpie stealing them,  but if no one sees it been taken, you did the right thing by playing 3 off the tee


----------



## USER1999 (Apr 24, 2012)

I blame the badgers.


----------



## barrybridges (Apr 24, 2012)

Interestingly this is the third time this has happened to me.

The first time was playing at Seaford Head (which I'll probably write a review of shortly) where a dog belonging to one of the oiks I had been paired up with ran onto the 18th and picked my ball up before running away with it.

The second time was on the same hole as above.

It just seems a bit harsh to be penalised for a very good shot when it is virtually certain that the ball didn't go OOB.


----------



## BTatHome (Apr 24, 2012)

What would you do, and why is it any different to being a lost ball?

OOB is not a lost ball


----------



## DCB (Apr 24, 2012)

where a dog belonging to one of the oiks I had been paired up with ran onto the 18th and picked my ball up before running away with it.​

Click to expand...

In that case you get to replace your ball, where it was before the dog lifted it, without penalty as you saw the dog, which is an outside agency, take your ball.


----------



## One Planer (Apr 24, 2012)

Did you hear the sound of smashing glass and tyres screeching followed by what sounded like a car hitting a tree?


----------



## FairwayDodger (Apr 24, 2012)

I had a fox run onto the green once and lift my ball, but if you don't actually see anything take the ball you've got no option but to do as you did.


----------



## Little Jockey (Apr 24, 2012)

I saw an example on the european tour last year too, TV caught a dog wonder onto a green and move a players ball, they got the official in and he just moved the ball back to where it had been. Couldnt find the clip on YouTube though?


----------



## Ian_S (Apr 24, 2012)

If you're either certain or virtually certain its in abnormal ground, obstruction or been moved by an outside agency then its basically free drop roughly where you think the ball was. I suppose its questionable. You're pretty certain where it was, and it wasn't there so I guess you could argue its one of the above. I don't know though.


----------



## CliveW (Apr 24, 2012)

Ian_S said:



			If you're either certain or virtually certain its in abnormal ground, obstruction or been moved by an outside agency then its basically free drop roughly where you think the ball was. I suppose its questionable. You're pretty certain where it was, and it wasn't there so I guess you could argue its one of the above. I don't know though.
		
Click to expand...

Which rule is that???


----------



## MashieNiblick (Apr 24, 2012)

CliveW said:



			Which rule is that???
		
Click to expand...

The relevant Rules are

Ball moved by outside agency not recoverable - Rule 18-1 and Note 1
Ball in abnormal ground condition not found - Rule 25-1c

In both cases it must be "known or virtually certain" that the relevant circumstances apply.

Note that for a ball lost in an abnormal ground condition you drop within a club length of the nearest point of relief from the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the condition and of course not nearer the hole.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Apr 24, 2012)

Sorry to correct but it was old folk from Edinburgh.

 This post was from Surrey and I know for a fact that old folk from Surrey would never behave in such a dispicable way. 

I suspect ball selling urchins bussed in from Basingstoke.


----------



## Ethan (Apr 24, 2012)

Happens to us all. Hit a great shot over a brow of a hill into a fairway the width of a field with no hazards or rough, would bet your mortgage it is sitting in the middle of the fairway, can't find the damn thing. 

Unfortunately unless you have sound reason to suspect it has been half inched by an animal, a local feral child or similar, it is lost, and "It can't not be in the fairway" is not enough.


----------



## Scottjd1 (Apr 24, 2012)

I have played that hole a few times and on occasion I have carried the bunker and not found it, i have just dropped one near where I saw it and played the hole (practice round before anyway calls me a cheat...).

I have then found my ball in the greenside bunker where it has taken a big bounce to the left or even in the rough on the right of the green, all depends on the bounce. Plus it gets pretty windy on that course.

I guess thats why you are supposed to play a long iron down the left and wedge on from there.:thup:


----------



## Heidi (Apr 24, 2012)

Next time employ a spotter and send the urchin down the fairway to tell you what happens to your ball!

I 'lost' mine on sat while marking a card - luckily it was just a bounce for me. the guy who was playing up the 9th as I was playing down the 1st swore he didnt play my ball...(he did tho...)


----------



## mouth (Apr 24, 2012)

If you can't 'find' your ball then surely it's 'lost'. Tough luck in having to take a penalty for a good shot but that's golf. If I didn't get punished by the course for what I call a 'good shot' then I'd be scoring an average of 61.


----------



## Hobbit (Apr 24, 2012)

Lots of old folk in Surrey


----------



## CliveW (Apr 24, 2012)

MashieNiblick said:



			The relevant Rules are

Ball moved by outside agency not recoverable - Rule 18-1 and Note 1
Ball in abnormal ground condition not found - Rule 25-1c

In both cases it must be "known or virtually certain" that the relevant circumstances apply.

Note that for a ball lost in an abnormal ground condition you drop within a club length of the nearest point of relief from the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the condition and of course not nearer the hole.
		
Click to expand...

Thank you.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Apr 24, 2012)

As others have said given the circumstances its a lost ball. Tough break though.


----------



## SocketRocket (Apr 24, 2012)

So I hope that clears it up for you.  It's probably stolen by old people from Scotland or Surrey or it could be a fox, seagull, badger, magpie or dog, maybe even Rumanian Gypsy children.   It could be in a bunker, lake, ditch or rough (I guess you checked the hole) or down a rabbit/badger/vole/ferret/meerkat hole.


----------



## duncan mackie (Apr 24, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			So I hope that clears it up for you.  It's probably stolen by old people from Scotland or Surrey or it could be a fox, seagull, badger, magpie or dog, maybe even Rumanian Gypsy children.   It could be in a bunker, lake, ditch or rough (I guess you checked the hole) or down a rabbit/badger/vole/ferret/meerkat hole.
		
Click to expand...

excellent sumary; and well done for not adding including stolen by aliens!

why I have this image of Marlene Dietrich saying 'let's face it - it's lost' I simply don't know


----------



## joma1108 (Apr 25, 2012)

If memory serves me correct this happened on the pro circuit a few weeks back (going from memory so dont shoot me if its not quite correct) Branden Grace was playing to a Par three and lost it in a greenside bunker, morrocan open i think,
It went so high i think it came down with snow on it,

they searched the bunker for 5 minutes but couldnt find it and he went back to the tee to play his third.

I think he finally ended up with a bogey four which was good going, and i think he also won the competition


----------



## williamalex1 (Apr 25, 2012)

in his case it was probably a meerkat that stole it, simples


----------



## stevelev (Apr 27, 2012)

If you think it may be in the bunker you are able to search the bunker for it without incurring a penalty.

Also looking at your course, the green is nowhere near 150 yards past the bunker, from the start of the bunker to the boundary past the next tee it is 150 yards.

Maybe you are visualising the shot in your head way too much......... and seeing things :ears:


----------



## upsidedown (Apr 27, 2012)

How about it hit the downside of the bunker and headed off to the trees on the right?


----------



## SocketRocket (Apr 28, 2012)

Was there a smell of wee in the air?


----------



## barrybridges (May 1, 2012)

Thanks for replies guys - some v.entertaining!

I'm absolutely confident that the ball didn't go OOB, nor did it reach the bunker to the left of the green.

I don't have the ability to drive the green on this hole (although others do) and I know I couldn't have reached the green. 

I saw it clear the first bunker, but where it then went is a mystery.

Oh well!


----------

