# should she be allowed back in the UK?



## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181#share-tools

Thoughts please.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 14, 2019)

No


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## KenL (Feb 14, 2019)

It's a no from me.


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## Crazyface (Feb 14, 2019)

Hell no! from me.


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## Doh (Feb 14, 2019)

She has lost two children to malnutrition and is 9 months pregnant and wants to come back so her baby will be looked after (her words) no, she supported ISIS and is therefore a war criminal.


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## Imurg (Feb 14, 2019)

The only reason she wants back in is so she can have her baby here and "it will be looked after"
She doesn't regret her decision to leave so her mindset hasn't been changed. This country wasn't good enough when she left, why is it suddenly good enough now..?
Seeing severed heads in a bin doesn't faze her....
I think there will be a major outcry from the public if she's allowed back.
The words "you made your bed now lie in it" never seemed so apt.
Sorry Girl - you are home.


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## adam6177 (Feb 14, 2019)

Short answer - no.

Long answer - no, go away.

But more the question - why is this story making headlines? What else is there behind it?


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

Is she British by birth? Has she committed a criminal offence?

I don't agree with her beliefs and I think her attitude stinks but what has she done wrong? She has a strong, radical belief about the spread Islam but what has she physically done wrong? Where do you draw the line on beliefs? Where do you draw the line on culpability? She fed her husband who was an IS fighter. Does that constitute culpability?

She was a 15 yr old kid when she left. She was married within 10 days of meeting her future husband. There's a lot to look at before totally condemning her. If a kid is brainwashed, radicalised, do you write them off or try to un-brainwash them?

I'd rather she wasn't allowed back in but as things currently stand how does the UK stop her from returning to the UK? Unless she is declared a non-person, her home country is the UK.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

Surely in this modern age we should show compassion and understanding to her.
Nah, not a chance, itâ€™s a no from me.


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## USER1999 (Feb 14, 2019)

Bring her back, and then spend millions tracking her for the next 20 years?

It's a no from me.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

The only way she should be allowed back in the uk is in a wooden box


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## Britishshooting (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Is she British by birth? Has she committed a criminal offence?

I don't agree with her beliefs and I think her attitude stinks but what has she done wrong? She has a strong, radical belief about the spread Islam but what has she physically done wrong? Where do you draw the line on beliefs? Where do you draw the line on culpability? She fed her husband who was an IS fighter. Does that constitute culpability?

She was a 15 yr old kid when she left. She was married within 10 days of meeting her future husband. There's a lot to look at before totally condemning her. If a kid is brainwashed, radicalised, do you write them off or try to un-brainwash them?

I'd rather she wasn't allowed back in but as things currently stand how does the UK stop her from returning to the UK? Unless she is declared a non-person, her home country is the UK.
		
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I honestly think views like this are why this country is going down the pan.


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## rudebhoy (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Is she British by birth? Has she committed a criminal offence?

I don't agree with her beliefs and I think her attitude stinks but what has she done wrong? She has a strong, radical belief about the spread Islam but what has she physically done wrong? Where do you draw the line on beliefs? Where do you draw the line on culpability? She fed her husband who was an IS fighter. Does that constitute culpability?

She was a 15 yr old kid when she left. She was married within 10 days of meeting her future husband. There's a lot to look at before totally condemning her. If a kid is brainwashed, radicalised, do you write them off or try to un-brainwash them?

I'd rather she wasn't allowed back in but as things currently stand how does the UK stop her from returning to the UK? Unless she is declared a non-person, her home country is the UK.
		
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You make some good points there, like you say, she hasn't committed any crime. She is entitled to her beliefs, as are people of a similar mindset, even if we don't agree with it. Isn't freedom of expression part of what we fought for?


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## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2019)

Britishshooting said:



			I honestly think views like this are why this country is going down the pan.
		
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Nah, it's actually a pretty awesome country to live and certainly better than it was historically but people love to use expressions like "this is why this country..." anytime something socially or politically happens that they don't agree with. Hobbit has shown insight into both sides of the argument including the human side and has still said he doesn't want the girl to return. If you really think moderate thinking is a bad thing, perhaps you should move to a country which promotes only hard line thinking... maybe an ISIS led territory somewhere?

I think we should let the girl return, for the child if nothing else. We are better than this. Let's TRY to re-educate, show compassion and lead from the front. It's not easy, it's not necessarily cheap but someone has to so why not us?


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## Imurg (Feb 14, 2019)

If she regretted her decision to leave.
If she renounced Islamic State
If she pleaded that she was a young girl, brainwashed by a radical group.
If she wanted to come back to be a useful member of society....
Then maybe she would have a few more supporters.
Any of the above seem apparent?
The words " I don't regret leaving" will seal it for, I believe, the vast majority of the general public.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Is she British by birth? Has she committed a criminal offence?

I don't agree with her beliefs and I think her attitude stinks but what has she done wrong? She has a strong, radical belief about the spread Islam but what has she physically done wrong? Where do you draw the line on beliefs? Where do you draw the line on culpability? She fed her husband who was an IS fighter. Does that constitute culpability?

She was a 15 yr old kid when she left. She was married within 10 days of meeting her future husband. There's a lot to look at before totally condemning her. If a kid is brainwashed, radicalised, do you write them off or try to un-brainwash them?

I'd rather she wasn't allowed back in but as things currently stand how does the UK stop her from returning to the UK? Unless she is declared a non-person, her home country is the UK.
		
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Exactly this - she is a British National with a passport so she canâ€™t be stopped coming and then she is assessed


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## Wolf (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Is she British by birth? Has she committed a criminal offence?

I don't agree with her beliefs and I think her attitude stinks but what has she done wrong? She has a strong, radical belief about the spread Islam but what has she physically done wrong? Where do you draw the line on beliefs? Where do you draw the line on culpability? She fed her husband who was an IS fighter. Does that constitute culpability?

She was a 15 yr old kid when she left. She was married within 10 days of meeting her future husband. There's a lot to look at before totally condemning her. If a kid is brainwashed, radicalised, do you write them off or try to un-brainwash them?

I'd rather she wasn't allowed back in but as things currently stand how does the UK stop her from returning to the UK? Unless she is declared a non-person, her home country is the UK.
		
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Literally agree with this word for word.. 

There's nothing we can do to stop her returning as a British passport holder. 

Do I think she should be allowed to return though absolutely not..


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## bobmac (Feb 14, 2019)

My concern is her attitude towards non muslims.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2019)

â€œHereâ€™s the gun, use itâ€
So just to be clear, she can feck off as far as Iâ€™m concerned. 
She went out there with the intention of marrying an isis fighter, shows no regret or remorse. 
To let her back in risks the chance of another 07/07 or a Lee Rigby on our streets. It would also cost a fortune in surveillance.
Sod her, she made her bed go lie in it or do us all a favour.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

rudebhoy said:



			You make some good points there, like you say, she hasn't committed any crime. She is entitled to her beliefs, as are people of a similar mindset, even if we don't agree with it. Isn't freedom of expression part of what we fought for?
		
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Didnâ€™t she leave to join and support a terrorist organisation?


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## Britishshooting (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Exactly this - she is a British National with a passport so she canâ€™t be stopped coming and then she is assessed
		
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They can and hopefully will strip her of her British Citizenship, she will then be stateless.

Why should someone who left the UK, to 'support' ISIS be allowed to return when it suits them? How many thousands of widowed women with children are in the refugee camps as a result of ISIS, maybe even this woman's husband (also governments but thats another topic). They're the ones that deserve a chance at a better life not people like this.

She has her ideology, she's expressed that and I agree in this day and age we are all entitled to our beliefs but there's a line where it doesn't work when people are intolerant to any other belief. She describes anybody opposed to ISIS as the 'enemy' how can you integrate such people into society?

The problem is they do integrate, they hide in the background, become calculated and then atrocities happen or they brainwash young children into doing their dirty work.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2019)

Without showing any remorse for he actions I can't understand why we should let her into the country. She followed and supported a terrorist group (responsible for killing Brits) and so should be either told no or be allowed in for the good of the unborn child, which should then be taking into care at birth, and the mother arrested tried and imprisoned for a long time with no parole. I think it's time Britain took control of its borders (irrespective of Brexit) and finally decided who should and shouldn't enter and for to enforce those decisions


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## chrisd (Feb 14, 2019)

When she left to join a terrorist organisation, as far as I'm concerned, that revoked her British citizenship and she should never be allowed to step on British soil ever again


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## Robster59 (Feb 14, 2019)

She's showing no remorse for what she's done.  She's a member of a terrorist organisation and nothing in her statements leads me to believe that her viewpoint has changed.  
If she has children, what's to stop her raising them with the same mindset?  What's to stop her from influencing other people when she's over here.  
It's a no from me.  In my mind she has lost the right to that passport.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

The very fact that this is even being discussed shows how far gone this country is now.
No remorse. No regrets. Not fazed by severed heads in bins. Left to support pure evil. Left to support an organisation who want to kill any of us who are not Muslim. Left to support those who wish to kill British soldiers and civilians and indeed did so in the most horrendous way. Happy to see aid workers murdered in cold blood and the destruction of world heritage sites. Happy to see probably millions of lives ruined. Happy to see young children trained to commit the murder of innocent adults. The war on ISIS has cost millions of not billions. And now we should pay to look after her kid?
I find it frankly amazing that there are people on here who are prepared to take her back but who are less inclined to forgive someone who broke a rule at golf.
I am pretty sure though that anyone who wants to take her back wonâ€™t be too keen to take any responsibility if she comes back and commits a terrorist act.
And what message are we sending to those who may consider doing the same thing in the future? Give it a go. Go and fight for our enemies. You have nothing to lose. If we win you can come home, all is forgiven. If you win you can kill us all.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

no doubt Lilly Allen will pipe up and say we should welcome her back


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## Dibby (Feb 14, 2019)

From a pragmatic viewpoint, she is British and as she can not be left stateless her nationality cannot be stripped. So given this limitation, potentially she can be useful to intelligence as a "honeypot" for identifying other extremists if she is allowed to return, so she could actually be of some use.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Didnâ€™t she leave to join and support a terrorist organisation?
		
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Thatâ€™s alright though because she has a British passport,yeah right.

Seeing heads in bins would shock most people and leave an impression,not her totally unfazed.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 14, 2019)

Dibby said:



			From a pragmatic viewpoint, she is British and as she can not be left stateless her nationality cannot be stripped. So given this limitation, potentially she can be useful to intelligence as a "honeypot" for identifying other extremists if she is allowed to return, so she could actually be of some use.
		
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## AmandaJR (Feb 14, 2019)

No.


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## Slab (Feb 14, 2019)

_Isis terrorist:_ hi boss I asked to see you because while I quite enjoy my current role I really want to meet someone and start a family so I think Iâ€™m gonna give you my notice to quit

_Isis terrorist boss: _Ok I understand but we really donâ€™t want to lose you. How about we bring a wife out here for you, that way you can carry on with us and start a family too. Weâ€™ve volunteers looking for a lad like you who are applying to come and help us

_Isis terrorist;_ cool sounds like a plan

4 yrs later

_Isis bride;_ Hi is that Britain? erm my terrorist hubbyâ€™s just been caught by the Syrian army, any chance I can have a flat in Basingstoke until another opportunity opens up? (P.s Iâ€™ll need help with childcare and jobseekers allowance)    

_Britain:_ Sure that sounds like something we can doâ€¦..  Wait, what!


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

Dibby said:



			From a pragmatic viewpoint, she is British and as she can not be left stateless her nationality cannot be stripped. So given this limitation, potentially she can be useful to intelligence as a "honeypot" for identifying other extremists if she is allowed to return, so she could actually be of some use.
		
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they can strip her of her nationality and in this case they should.
the only reason this piece of trash wants to come back is so she can get all the support (money) for her kid and I doubt for 1 minute she'll dish the dirt on ISIS.
Plus how much will it cost to keep her under surveillance?
IMO the only thing she should get is a bullet


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## IanM (Feb 14, 2019)

No.  She rejected the UK when she went off to support ISIS.  She therefore lost her residency rights.  If she hasnt, the law needs changing.

It is that simple.   

(awaits accusation of islamaphopia)


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## Beezerk (Feb 14, 2019)

chrisd said:



			When she left to join a terrorist organisation, as far as I'm concerned, that revoked her British citizenship and she should never be allowed to step on British soil ever again
		
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I don't think she should have her citizenship revoked but I do think she should be tried as a terrorist as soon as she lands on this soil, then let the legal system do its thing. I fail to see how she could live a normal life anyway of she were to return,  hate mobs on her case, probably the most despised Muslim in the country etc etc.


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## Dibby (Feb 14, 2019)

Dando said:



*they can strip her of her nationality and in this case they should.*
the only reason this piece of trash wants to come back is so she can get all the support (money) for her kid and I doubt for 1 minute she'll dish the dirt on ISIS.
Plus how much will it cost to keep her under surveillance?
IMO the only thing she should get is a bullet
		
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How? Legally you cannot leave someone stateless. ISIS is not a legally recognised state, and as far as I am aware she only has British nationality. 

If you are referring to previous incidents where terrorists have been stripped of nationality, they have had dual nationality, so they were not left stateless when their British nationality was removed.


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## Dan2501 (Feb 14, 2019)

Let the wife of a terrorist, and supporter of a terrorist organisation back into the country? Someone that happily admits she wasn't fussed by the severed head of a non IS member because they were "An enemy of Islam. I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance"? I don't think so, leave her in Syria. You've made your bed, now sleep in it. She's not coming back because she's changed her ideology or regrets anything she's done, no chance I'd let her back in.


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## bobmac (Feb 14, 2019)

If she does come back, maybe she could join the Regent's Park mosque


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## need_my_wedge (Feb 14, 2019)

The human side of me would like to let her come "home", but the cynical side of me thinks  she is just doing it to get state handouts for the baby. The realist part of me says she left to support a terrorst group and enemy of our country, she married with an enemy of the country, she has no remorse for her actions. The cost to monitor her alone would be ridiculous because she can not be trusted. She should not be allowed back, and we should not show any remorse in that decision.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2019)

No one has asked her what she would like any of her 3 attempted children (had the 2 previous made full term) to do once they were old enough.... follow in their fathers footsteps?
And stand by my previous comment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

Iâ€™ve already said she shouldnâ€™t be let back in and I fully respect those whose opinions differ and make some very valid points.
Why oh why do we have to then get the extremes of, the Country has gone and the welfare state etc etc.
Weâ€™ve allowed terrorists from all sorts of places to stay in the Country or their families, weâ€™ve released them from prison in the UK.
She not the first, sheâ€™s simply the next one.
ISIS have been a terrorist group the likes of which weâ€™ve never seen before and for their supporters there needs to be a special kind of hell.
Itâ€™s simply frustrating to see people use this case to once again have a dig at our Country.


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## ger147 (Feb 14, 2019)

Having read the story in the original link, as far as I understand it she's not asking for permission to come home as she is still a British citizen so still has the right to come home if she chooses. She is asking for the British authorities to help her return to the UK due to her current situation in the Syrian refugee camp.


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## patricks148 (Feb 14, 2019)

bobmac said:



			If she does come back, maybe she could join the Regent's Park mosque







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The bit where they reject British citizen ship and hate non Muslims and integration, i bet they accept British hand outs though


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## oxymoron (Feb 14, 2019)

I thought that if someone joined an organisation to fight or support someone fighting against our forces (forces of the crown ? ) is that not treason ? if not then it should be. She should be left to rot where 
she is . Absolutely no compassion should be shown , i dont think she would have shown any to her supposed enemies so she should reap what she has shown .I just feel sorry for her unborn child and wonder
 what future it will have with a parent like her to guide it .


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Britishshooting said:



			They can and hopefully will strip her of her British Citizenship, she will then be stateless.

Why should someone who left the UK, to 'support' ISIS be allowed to return when it suits them? How many thousands of widowed women with children are in the refugee camps as a result of ISIS, maybe even this woman's husband (also governments but thats another topic). They're the ones that deserve a chance at a better life not people like this.

She has her ideology, she's expressed that and I agree in this day and age we are all entitled to our beliefs but there's a line where it doesn't work when people are intolerant to any other belief. She describes anybody opposed to ISIS as the 'enemy' how can you integrate such people into society?

The problem is they do integrate, they hide in the background, become calculated and then atrocities happen or they brainwash young children into doing their dirty work.
		
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Can you be stripped of your citizenship if you only have one nationality? 

She can return when she wants but itâ€™s then what the authorities do when she does ?

If she hasnâ€™t actually committed any terrorist threat I guess itâ€™s hard to charge her etc 

The country has plenty of people who have â€œideas and beliefsâ€ about removing certain race , religions etc including people who want all Muslims , Hindues etc removed - we as a country donâ€™t remove their citizenship or arrest them etc for having an opinion or belief. 

She was young infact still young and easily manipulated maybe itâ€™s a chance to re educate as opposed to be dismissed


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you be stripped of your citizenship if you only have one nationality?

She was young infact still young and easily manipulated maybe itâ€™s a chance to re educate as opposed to be dismissed
		
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Her comments make it very apparent she doesn't want to be re-educated. I would suggest the chances are she'll come back and look to recruit more IS supporters. Didn't she leave to join a recognised terrorist operation. Surely that alone is a criminal offence and so any chance of her coming into the UK has to be on the understanding she'll be arrested, detained until her trial and then serve a prison sentence if found guilty.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2019)

Pretty sure it is illegal to be a member of a terrorist organisation and to promote those views, encourage acts of terror etc. She is ticking those boxes at the very least. Beyond that she is probably breaking some other laws but I would not know precisely what they are.

At the moment the UK does not have to do anything I don't think. She is in the camp without the ability to get back and if the UK govt doesn't want to bring her back then she will stay there. If the Syrians want to send her back that changes things but we don't have friendly relations with Syria so I am not sure how they could send her back, no direct flights at the moment. 

Why would we want her back? She clearly still believes in the organisation, would have to be monitored after serving whatever sentence she would be given. She would be an unwanted burden. No thanks.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

All those agreeing or believing she should be allowed back or we should accept her, would you be happy if she moved in to your street or next door?


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## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			All those agreeing or believing she should be allowed back or we should accept her, would you be happy if she moved in to your street or next door?
		
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Would you be happy knowing that a petty thief moved in next door? 

But would you think they should be deported?

Letâ€™s not try to muddy the waters with pointless, emotional interjections like this one.


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## Imurg (Feb 14, 2019)

Realistically she's not going anywhere before the baby is born.
With no relations between us and Syria, the government are unable to do anything.
She needs to get across the border to Turkey, then the government could help to repatriate her.
But if she's due to give birth within days then it's just not going to happen.
Does she still have a passport?
Wouldn't that have been destroyed by IS?
In fact, I believe, she travelled to Turkey originally using her sister's passport so she probably hasn't got one.
So is she who she says she is?


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## Slab (Feb 14, 2019)

She sounds like an outdoorsy kind of girl. I believe she should head off to Mexico where gainful employment as a caddy can yield as much as $200 a day!


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## User20204 (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			All those agreeing or believing she should be allowed back or we should accept her, would you be happy if she moved in to your street or next door?
		
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Not sure that has any relevance in her returning, if she is British, I don't think anyone can stop her from returning, it would certainly be against public opinion but again, if she is British citizen then she is entitled to return.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 14, 2019)

She threw her passport away so at the moment she can not move between countries. She would have to apply for a new UK passport.

Having a petty thief next door, unpleasant, is very different to someone who wants you, your family, your friends etc to die. In this case anyway, we are not looking to deport her, we are hopefully not allowing her to come back into the country.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Would you be happy knowing that a petty thief moved in next door?

But would you think they should be deported?

Letâ€™s not try to muddy the waters with pointless, emotional interjections like this one.
		
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She has knowingly gone to help a terrorist organisation, unfazed by a head in a bin, shown no remorse and you equate her to a petty thief!


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## Dasit (Feb 14, 2019)

If leaving the UK to join ISIS isn't a terrorist offence, it needs to be.


Need to stop letting women have the best of all worlds in the law of this country also.

If women want equal opportunities and pay, they can have equal punishments too, like the same sentences men get.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			All those agreeing or believing she should be allowed back or we should accept her, would you be happy if she moved in to your street or next door?
		
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There are people on here that I wouldnâ€™t want living next door


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Not sure that has any relevance in her returning, if she is British, I don't think anyone can stop her from returning, it would certainly be against public opinion but again, if she is British citizen then she is entitled to return.
		
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But have some saying she could be monitored etc, would you be happy knowing there would be an almost permanent police presence outside your door or security services monitoring your activities or the media etc etc.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			She has knowingly gone to help a terrorist organisation, unfazed by a head in a bin, shown no remorse and you equate her to a petty thief!
		
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Iâ€™d rather my tv go missing than my head


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

Dando said:



			Iâ€™d rather my tv go missing than my head
		
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Also what people miss is the fact that, if ISIS had become stable and secure in their areas, sheâ€™d be producing the next line of terrorists and wouldnâ€™t be giving a damn about the UK or its people.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2019)

I couldnâ€™t give a toss about her rights. 
Itâ€™s about time we looked after number one. 
Too many snowflakes & do gooders in this country.


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## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			I couldnâ€™t give a toss about her rights.
Itâ€™s about time we looked after number one.
Too many snowflakes & do gooders in this country.
		
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Is do gooder an insult? 

"Hey, look at that person, he tries to do good! Yeaaa, hit him with sticks yayayaya."


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## Beezerk (Feb 14, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Is do gooder an insult?
		
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Only for a snowflake ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 14, 2019)

No.

But then again - No.

Having considered it yet again. Still a no.

I can't believe what I'm reading here from some. One of the, if not THE worst terror organisation the world has ever encountered when it comes to the sheer brutality in how they kill/ed their "enemies" (i.e., those who don't wish to move 1,400 years back in time or so).

Binding together people as a bomb belt dominos, putting people in cages and sink them down to drown whilst having it all filmed and edited like it's some sort of Hollywood movie, hands and feet tied with ropes that are connected to two cars going in opposite direction until the bodies are torn to pieces.

What they were doing was fully exploited and shown to the world when the girls left to live that life. They were 15? Soz, don't care.

But we can't stop them from coming back... Well, change the laws then.

"We're better than that"...

Goodness me, I feel sick.


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## IanM (Feb 14, 2019)

Sorry Kelly, you've made comments the use of language, but do you actually think she should be allowed back in, and if so, if active support of ISIS isnt sufficient to lose entry rights, what do you think is? Just asking!


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 14, 2019)

Easiest question ever asked on this or probably any other forum -  she chose to leave.  She stays out forever.  Doesn't even get to come back here in a box.
Lesson hopefully learned by a few other idiots as well.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

I think what's being confused in all this is opinion and fact.

Opinion is held in *should* she be allowed to return and fact is can she be stopped?

My opinion is that she should not be allowed, criminality aside we make choices in life and we have to live with the consequences no matter how dire, its a sticky road where we get to pick and choose which we can accept and which we can ignore.

But the fact remains that unless a criminal act has been committed then, assuming she actually is a British citizen, then she has the right to come and go as anyone else does that has not committed a crime to their exclusion.

Emotion (and its clearly an emotive issue) doesn't come in to the law. Ask any parent separated unfairly from a child within "the bounds of the law". 

Laws often don't seem to make sense but we must abide by them until changed. Anything else, anarchy exists.

Of course, just my opinion from behind my keyboard, very far removed from the situation.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

IanM said:



			Sorry Kelly, you've made comments the use of language, but do you actually think she should be allowed back in, and if so, if active support of ISIS isnt sufficient to lose entry rights, what do you think is? Just asking!
		
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She is a British citizen - you canâ€™t take that away from her 

Regardless of personal opinions she is allowed to return to the country if she wishes .

The country has a lot of people who are British Citizens that have committed horrific crimes , killed people because of their race , because of their sexual orientation, - there are ladies who have married terrorists and still are British citizens. We canâ€™t â€œremove their citizenshipâ€ unless they have dual nationality. 

When or if she does return then the authorities deal with her and any crime she has committed - just like any other law breaker


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## chrisd (Feb 14, 2019)

I wonder what Donald Trump would do if she was American?


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## Old Skier (Feb 14, 2019)

Listening to her interview showing no remorse and her whole attitude I really think she thinks she can come back as some kind of celebrity.

She's belonged to a terrorist organisation. Yep she can come back and spend the rest of her life at Her Majesty 's pleasure providing she has her passport and can prove who she is.


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## IanM (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			She is a British citizen - you canâ€™t take that away from her
		
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As I mentioned, maybe the law needs changing.....


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## Old Skier (Feb 14, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I wonder what Donald Trump would do if she was American?
		
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There's a little bit of Cuba that would offer her accommodation.


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## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I wonder what Donald Trump would do if she was American?
		
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Very little except spout his usual nonsensical rhetoric. Then the courts would step in and remind him he has no power to stop her returning...


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			She is a British citizen - you canâ€™t take that away from her

Regardless of personal opinions she is allowed to return to the country if she wishes .

The country has a lot of people who are British Citizens that have committed horrific crimes , killed people because of their race , because of their sexual orientation, - there are ladies who have married terrorists and still are British citizens. We canâ€™t â€œremove their citizenshipâ€ unless they have dual nationality.

When or if she does return then the authorities deal with her and any crime she has committed - just like any other law breaker
		
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What about a passport. Allegedly travelled on her sisters originally and no guarantee it still exists. Your argument about citizenship seems laboured and even if she is a British national, she doesn't have valid entry documents possibly. Those that have killed for creed or colour will have served sentences where found guilty. Arrest her at the point of entry if she meets entry criteria, including holding a *valid* UK passport, let the justice system deal with her while having her on remand and then let the courts decide how to proceed. If she can't provide a valid passport leave her where she is


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

IanM said:



			As I mentioned, maybe the law needs changing.....
		
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A law will never pass that allows someone to have their â€œcitizenship/nationalityâ€ removed - itâ€™s a birth right

There are laws there already for acts of terrorism etc - if she has broken any of them then thatâ€™s how she will be judged and sentenced if required. There are far worse people than her still British Citizens and certainly werenâ€™t calls for that to be removed when they were found guilty. Maybe itâ€™s because she is a Muslim ?


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## robinthehood (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A law will never pass that allows someone to have their â€œcitizenship/nationalityâ€ removed - itâ€™s a birth right 

There are laws there already for acts of terrorism etc - if she has broken any of them then thatâ€™s how she will be judged and sentenced if required. There are far worse people than her still British Citizens and certainly werenâ€™t calls for that to be removed when they were found guilty. Maybe itâ€™s because she is a Muslim
		
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It can  be removed even if you are British born in some cases,  I think for this woman too.


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## IanM (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe itâ€™s because she is a Muslim
		
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No, it beacuse she is a fithy terrorist, and refused to renounce it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

IanM said:



			No, it beacuse she is a fithy terrorist, and refused to renounce it.
		
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This is a list of current or past terrorist organisations that do have members in the UK

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_Kingdom

Not seen calls for them to have their British Nationality removed ?

Includes far right - English organisations , Irish and British Loyalists ?

People that have killed British Nationals


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## Old Skier (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A law will never pass that allows someone to have their â€œcitizenship/nationalityâ€ removed - itâ€™s a birth right
		
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Apparently it can be revoked if you become a threat to national security.


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## IanM (Feb 14, 2019)

Phil, it makes it cloudier if they are still in the country... if they choose to go leave, why let them back in?  (revocation of nationality is just a label)  

The nasties you refer to should be in jail if they break the law... as many are.  

You need to talk to an Iman about extremism, you will be offended on his behalf!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

IanM said:



			Phil, it makes it cloudier if they are still in the country... if they choose to go leave, why let them back in?  (revocation of nationality is just a label) 

*The nasties you refer to should be in jail if they break the law... as many are. *

You need to talk to an Iman about extremism, you will be offended on his behalf!
		
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So if this girl has been seen to break the law she joins the others that have broken the law in Jail 

You can also talk to English people about extremism- itâ€™s not just exclusive to Islam.


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## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can also talk to English people about extremism- itâ€™s not just exclusive to Islam.
		
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Sadly, some people are ok with extremism if itâ€™s â€œour extremismâ€.


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## IanM (Feb 14, 2019)

The question was ..."should she be let back in the country"

I don't think she should be.   

No other forms of terroirsm were mentioned.  You went off on your default rant about people only being "anti" becuase she is a muslim.   That's not true.  The law abiding muslim community in the UK are sick of these folk too.... or are they self-racist in your eyes?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 14, 2019)

Well said. I imagine should she be allowed in, and worse still be allowed to live and move freely, there will be opposition from all sides including muslims. To talk about extremism and use the religion card is irrelevant. The question was should she be allowed back. My answer is a definite NO. However if she can meet entry criteria and the government is prepared to let her in, and again I don't see why they should be forced to, then arrest her and let the authorities deal with her. Any custodial sentence needs to be served in full with no parole


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## User62651 (Feb 14, 2019)

She believed she was out there for the long term to live in the new Caliphate, made her choice. Now that Caliphate has been all but destroyed she finds herself in a pickle and looking for a way out.
Assuming she is in Syria and Assad regains full control of the country in due course, will she be allowed to stay there by the Syrians? Maybe they jail her. If they kick her out and UK wont have her back what does she do, where does she go? Refugee camp indefinitley? Maybe another 3rd country will take her in?
I dont sympathise with her really, except at 15 she was technically still a child when seh went, but she's 19 now and given the weak use of words in asking to come back, doesn't really want to come back imo, just a last resort. How the Govt deals with this type of situation I dont know. Perhaps she comes back and does jail time here for terrorism related charges, if found guilty? I dont know legally what rights she has if she hasn't committed any actual crimes herself, but if she shows no remorse or regret for her actions and radical beliefs then I dont want her as potentially dangerous and even influential to be here.
However if my kid did that at 15 I wouldn't give up on them, perhaps her parents and family can drum some sense into her?
Maybe she could be made to work for nothing at a rehabilitation centre for those injured fighting for UK, bit of payback to her mother country?


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## Dibby (Feb 14, 2019)

IanM said:



			As I mentioned, maybe the law needs changing.....
		
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It's not a British law, it's a UN convention agreement.

The problem is for every edge case like this that the law appears to do the wrong thing, it also protects a lot of law abiding innocent people. If you start making special exceptions where does it stop? The whole point of the law is that everyone plays by the same rules, if we start making it so we can make exceptions whenever we feel like a bit of vigilante justice, we end up in chaos.

I'm not saying I personally think it's right that this girl is allowed to return home, but I do think it is right we apply the law and follow the correct procedures for everyone. We are all innocent until proven guilty. The other noteworthy point is that although people have bad things to say about lawyers who defend people like this girl, and even known criminals, they actually have a very important part to play. It is important that the prosecution puts up a solid case, if there weren't defence lawyers to test this, it would not necessarily happen.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A law will never pass that allows someone to have their â€œcitizenship/nationalityâ€ removed - itâ€™s a birth right

There are laws there already for acts of terrorism etc - if she has broken any of them then thatâ€™s how she will be judged and sentenced if required. There are far worse people than her still British Citizens and certainly werenâ€™t calls for that to be removed when they were found guilty.* Maybe itâ€™s because she is a Muslim*

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That post puts you in the same category as those you decry. I somehow think you make these accusations of racism more for your own sanctimonious image.


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## Scoobiesnax (Feb 14, 2019)

Should definitely not be allowed back into UK.  Good potential for her to not be rehabilitated satisfactorily and to spread her poison onto other impressionable minds.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if this girl has been seen to break the law she joins the others that have broken the law in Jail

You can also talk to English people about extremism- itâ€™s not just exclusive to Islam.
		
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Try talking to his family about extremism!


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## Scoobiesnax (Feb 14, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Try talking to his family about extremism!
View attachment 26595

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Or the poor Jordanian Pilot (i think) who was burned alive in a cage!


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## rudebhoy (Feb 14, 2019)

IanM said:



			No, it beacuse she is a fithy terrorist, and refused to renounce it.
		
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any evidence she is actually a terrorist? what terrorist activities has she carried out?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Try talking to his family about extremism!
View attachment 26595

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Is that family the only one to suffer at the hand of extremists - shall we find pictures of Muslims , Catholicâ€™s , White People ,Black Prior , Mixed Race,  Indian , Chinese , Scottish , Welsh , Irish , Pakistan ,etc etc etc

There are thousands of families who have been destroyed by extremists all over the world.

What exactly does your post add beyond trying to point score and antagonise ?


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2019)

It is illegal to be a member of isis here in the UK, and was made so back in 2014.
She has no passport, supports an illegal organisation and show no remorse or change of feelings. I can't believe some are actually argueing her case. Were those argueing her case also as supportive of those 2 who killed Lee Rigby, the 7/7 bombers or those who carried out the Waterloo and Westminsters attacks?
Don't give me human rights and citizenship when the person concerned will happily see anyone not supporting isis murdered.
A bullet or a bomb will kill you no matter how old the person pulling the trigger and I seriously hope those supporting her are just playing devils advocate, because to my mind if you're supportinig her and her cause you're supporting her beliefs and that means you support isis.


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## Scoobiesnax (Feb 14, 2019)

rudebhoy said:



			any evidence she is actually a terrorist? what terrorist activities has she carried out?
		
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She joined a terrorist organisation! whether she carried out any atrocities she was part of the support network! She is a terrorist.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			It is illegal to be a member of isis here in the UK, and was made so back in 2014.
She has no passport, supports an illegal oprganisation and show no remorse or change of feelings. I can't believe some are actually argueing her case. Were those argueing her case also as supportive of those 2 who killed Lee Rigby, the 7/7 bombers or those who carried out the Waterloo and Westminsters attacks?
Don't give me human rights and citizenship when the person concerned will happily see anyone not supporting isis murdered.
A bullet or a bomb will kill you no matter how old the person pulling the trigger and I seriously hope those supporting her are just playing devils advocate, because to my mind if you're supportinig her and* her cause you're supporting her beliefs and that means you support isis.*

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Of all the nonsense spouted on the forum thatâ€™s prob the king of crap right there ?! 

You seriously want to twist what people are posting to even slightly suggest anyone is supporting ISIS - that just beats anything spouted ?!? 

Not one person on this thread who has posted is â€œsupporting herâ€ or supporting her beliefs and choices

Did you actually read that post back before clicking post !


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## SocketRocket (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that family the only one to suffer at the hand of extremists - shall we find pictures of Muslims , Catholicâ€™s , White People ,Black Prior , Mixed Race,  Indian , Chinese , Scottish , Welsh , Irish , Pakistan ,etc etc etc

There are thousands of families who have been destroyed by extremists all over the world.

What exactly does your post add beyond trying to point score and antagonise ?
		
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Hopefully to show what a sanctimonious person you are, trying to throw the racist card at people in this country in defense of someone who was/is part of an organisation that would kill non Muslims without a trace of compassion.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Of all the nonsense spouted on the forum thatâ€™s prob the king of crap right there ?!

You seriously want to twist what people are posting to even slightly suggest anyone is supporting ISIS - that just beats anything spouted ?!?

Not one person on this thread who has posted is â€œsupporting herâ€ or supporting her beliefs and choices

Did you actually read that post back before clicking post !
		
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If you're supporting her you're supporting what she believes in, and supporting her means looking for anyway to let her back here with things like "shes a British citizen, and has a right to be here". She has no passport, and British citizenship isn't a right its a PRIVELEGE.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If you're supporting her you're supporting what she believes in, and supporting her means looking for anyway to let her back here with things like "shes a British citizen, and has a right to be here". She has no passport, and British citizenship isn't a right its a PRIVELEGE.
		
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Iâ€™ll say it again as you appeared to struggle to get it the first time 

*No one has supported her or her beliefs*

People saying she has a right to come back into the country because she is a British National is just stating facts about the situation - if she was born in the UK she is a British National - simple , passport or not she is a British National - just facts not support

Trying to suggest forum members are â€œsupportingâ€ a terrorist organisation that has killed many people is really poor.


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If you're supporting her you're supporting what she believes in, and supporting her means looking for anyway to let her back here with things like "shes a British citizen, and has a right to be here". She has no passport, and British citizenship isn't a right its a PRIVELEGE.
		
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Just maybe some people are supporting the law as it stands rather than that of a lynch mob.

The law as it stands, which I fully support, is that she can be declared stateless if proven to be a member of a terrorist organisation. For that to happen she needs to be charged, tried and convicted. And to be tried she needs to receive a summons to appear in the U.K. If she ignores the summons she can be tried in abstentia.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			If you're supporting her you're supporting what she believes in, and supporting her means looking for anyway to let her back here with things like "shes a British citizen, and has a right to be here". She has no passport, and British citizenship isn't a right its a *PRIVELEGE*.
		
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You sure about that, squire? 
Sounds like a "patriotic" chest beating statement to me. 

Birthright citizenship is very much alive and well and a person born in the UK is given the right _jus soli._

Whilst it may feel like, or appear to you to be, a privilege last time I checked it was indeed a right (or birth).

As I said before, it emotive but emotion should not distort facts, no matter how unpalatable the facts may be to you.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

it's a shame she didn't have a close encounter with a reaper drone


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2019)

Technically she can come back. 

Morally I think it would be wrong.


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## User20204 (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			But have some saying she could be monitored etc, would you be happy knowing there would be an almost permanent police presence outside your door or security services monitoring your activities or the media etc etc.
		
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Again, no relevance to the matter whether I'd be happy or not.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Just maybe some people are supporting the law as it stands rather than that of a lynch mob.

The law as it stands, which I fully support, is that she can be declared stateless if proven to be a member of a terrorist organisation. For that to happen she needs to be charged, tried and convicted. And to be tried she needs to receive a summons to appear in the U.K. If she ignores the summons she can be tried in abstentia.
		
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Maybe
I suggest giving the Royal Mail the job, at least we could be sure she wouldn't get it as they would leave a card for no-one home and collect from your delivery office

It's easy to get carried away, but sometimes what seems common sense doesn't apply.


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## bluewolf (Feb 14, 2019)

Do I want her back in the UK? No, obviously not. I'd be quite happy to see her banged up in a foreign jail. 

However, if she is a British citizen then she has the right to return. If there are charges to be faced (and there bloody well should be) then she should face them in a British court. 

It's not always easy to do the right thing, but it's the pursuit of the right path that sets us apart from the genuinely terrible societies that exist around the World.


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## Dannyc (Feb 14, 2019)

Ainâ€™t read all this thread but 
How do we know she wants come back? ISIS or her husband would chop her head off for mentioning it she is pregnant there is no way they would allow it 
Something ainâ€™t right


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

Dannyc said:



			Ainâ€™t read all this thread but
How do we know she wants come back? ISIS or her husband would chop her head off for mentioning it she is pregnant there is no way they would allow it
Something ainâ€™t right
		
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thankfully her husband is dead!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2019)

Flippin ECK, 106 posts later am here. I asked the question should she be allowed back. In my view, not a cat in hells chance. The point has also been raised, "legally she is allowed". If she is, then the law is an ass. In essence she and others know, they can go away and support, fight and murder her majesty's own servicemen who are defending this country and return at any time to be supported financially by this country coz it has gone tits up. How's that right. Don't anyone try to type owt in response coz I am not interested.
She will never ever contribute anything positive to our society.


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Maybe
I suggest giving the Royal Mail the job, at least we could be sure she wouldn't get it as they would leave a card for no-one home and collect from your delivery office

It's easy to get carried away, but sometimes what seems common sense doesn't apply.
		
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"Common sense" could be replaced by ye olde term called natural justice. I think, especially based on her own words to The Times reporter, that we all know what should happen. That is covered by law, which has its basis in natural justice. 

As an aside, its a shame that the "common sense" term of natural justice has been replaced/modernised to read "duty to act fairly."


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin ECK, 106 posts later am here. I asked the question should she be allowed back. In my view, not a cat in hells chance. The point has also been raised, "legally she is allowed". If she is, then the law is an ass. *In essence she and others know, they can go away and support, fight and murder her majesty's own servicemen who are defending this country and return at any time to be supported financially by this country coz it has gone tits up.* How's that right. Don't anyone try to type owt in response coz I am not interested.
She will never ever contribute anything positive to our society.
		
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Do they really ?

People have returned from being over there and have been tried and found guilty of terrorism and have to deal with the punishment given to them 

Anyone who has killed a British Soldier and is caught will be dealt with by the law


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin ECK, 106 posts later am here. I asked the question should she be allowed back. In my view, not a cat in hells chance. The point has also been raised, "legally she is allowed". If she is, then the law is an ass. In essence she and others know, they can go away and support, fight and murder her majesty's own servicemen who are defending this country and return at any time to be supported financially by this country coz it has gone tits up. How's that right. Don't anyone try to type owt in response coz I am not interested.
She will never ever contribute anything positive to our society.
		
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Oh you've tempted me to type a response

Lets bring her home at our expense. Give her a 2 bed flat, Sky TV and an iPhone.


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## Dannyc (Feb 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Flippin ECK, 106 posts later am here. I asked the question should she be allowed back. In my view, not a cat in hells chance. The point has also been raised, "legally she is allowed". If she is, then the law is an ass. In essence she and others know, they can go away and support, fight and murder her majesty's own servicemen who are defending this country and return at any time to be supported financially by this country coz it has gone tits up. How's that right. Don't anyone try to type owt in response coz I am not interested.
She will never ever contribute anything positive to our society.
		
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Spot on 
Bet the kids of British soldiers killed over there would be happy for her to come home and be financially looked after by us tax payers


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do they really ?

People have returned from being over there and have been tried and found guilty of terrorism and have to deal with the punishment given to them

Anyone who has killed a British Soldier *and is caught *will be dealt with by the law
		
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.

That is one of the points I am trying to make, but it dosent have to be a serviceman does it.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So if this girl has been seen to break the law she joins the others that have broken the law in Jail

You can also talk to English people about extremism- itâ€™s not just exclusive to Islam.
		
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She broke the law in Syria. Sorted.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2019)

Perhaps we should tell Donald she wants to go there. We never know, he might invite her over to help build his wall, as part of the footings


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

If she showed contrition should she be let back in?


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## brfcfan (Feb 14, 2019)

Britishshooting said:



			I honestly think views like this are why this country is going down the pan.
		
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Totally agree. Not enough people take responsibility for their actions anymore, and there is always someone with an apology or an excuse for them.

I would push her out of a plane somewhere over Afghanistan, parachute optional.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			.

That is one of the points I am trying to make, but it dosent have to be a serviceman does it.
		
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In fairness, it was you who raised that very point. 

Tashy, I tend to find most of your posting lighthearted and jovial in some lovable naive way, but what you have written above is representative of some dangerous thinking IMO and a prime example of why emotion has to be removed from things like laws. 

There are many, me included, that don't think she _should_ be allowed to return. But the world does not turn on shoulds. It turns on what is enshrined in law. Law's are not perfect and many (see my example before of a parent unfairly excluded from a child's life) can be "ass-like" but laws have to be specific enough to be enforceable but generic enough to cover multiple scenarios and edge cases. Can you imagine how complicated life would be with specific laws for *every* situation or case? As a forum of golfers that often decry the rules as being complex or too many or just plain daft, multiply that exponentially and you have the scenario of law for everything. 

Law is what we must adhere to, whether we agree or not - otherwise we become no better than those we decry. There are hundreds of utterly deplorable people in this country already that have done unspeakable acts to innocent people and the law deals with them. We often don't agree with the what of the enactment, but we are seldom privvy to the how or why of the enactment. 

What do you suggest, we allow emotive subject such as this case define the laws by which everyone else must live? Fair for all then?


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

What she's associated with is abhorrent, no two ways about it. Isn't it sad and ironic that there's people willing to do something abhorrent to her. Seriously, just have a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're better than her.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

brfcfan said:



			Totally agree. Not enough people take responsibility for their actions anymore, and there is always someone with an apology or an excuse for them.

I would push her out of a plane somewhere over Afghanistan, parachute optional.
		
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If she chooses a parachute, letâ€™s hope itâ€™s got a great big hole in it!


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

brfcfan said:



			Totally agree. Not enough people take responsibility for their actions anymore, and there is always someone with an apology or an excuse for them.

I would push her out of a plane somewhere over Afghanistan, parachute optional.
		
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No one should ever have or need an excuse or apology for wanting to see due process carried out. 

You would rather murder or severely endanger a 19 year old girl? That says more about you than the people you denounce. 

And I am not a "lefty nut" I am a fairly centralist thinker and see that some things are right and some things are wrong without needing to "lean" one way or another.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Sadly, some people are ok with extremism if itâ€™s â€œour extremismâ€.
		
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Utterly ridiculous comment


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## Kellfire (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Utterly ridiculous comment
		
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So youâ€™re ok with British nationals being racist and xenophobic in Britain? Interesting.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A law will never pass that allows someone to have their â€œcitizenship/nationalityâ€ removed - itâ€™s a birth right

There are laws there already for acts of terrorism etc - if she has broken any of them then thatâ€™s how she will be judged and sentenced if required. There are far worse people than her still British Citizens and certainly werenâ€™t calls for that to be removed when they were found guilty. Maybe itâ€™s because she is a Muslim
		
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These people that are far worse than her. Did they join and support an enemy of our country? Did they give themselves up whilst in a foreign country? A country we have no diplomatic arrangements with? If not your point is irrelevant.
As for your comment that maybe people donâ€™t want her back because she is Muslim. Have you stopped to consider, even once, how her actions have impacted upon her family and all Muslims in the UK? No, I thought not. Her actions and the actions of people like her have set back Muslim relations in Britain by decades. If you were really concerned about the Muslim community and not just (wrongly) using the race card for the benefit of your flawed argument, you wouldnâ€™t be protesting so loudly from your high horse. If I was a British Muslim I am pretty sure the last person I would want to see back here is this woman.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			So youâ€™re ok with British nationals being racist and xenophobic in Britain? Interesting.
		
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What on earth are you on about? I donâ€™t like extremism of any nature.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 14, 2019)

It's a big *NO* from me.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			What she's associated with is abhorrent, no two ways about it. Isn't it sad and ironic that there's people willing to do something abhorrent to her. Seriously, just have a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're better than her.
		
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There is a big difference though.
Some people (not me) are saying what they would like to see happen to her. They are not actually doing anything other than expressing an opinion.
She, on the other hand, actually got up, left a good and comfortable home in a civilised country, got on a plane on a false passport, travelled to Syria via Turkey. Connected with Isis, married a terrorist. Got pregnant by him 3 times. Supported an organisation that wanted to see all of us who are non-Muslims dead. Including you and your family. She actually did it and she regrets none of it.
Are those posting on here better than her?
Well, I guess whist she has been supporting those who want us dead, they have probably been working, paying taxes (that she now wants to benefit from), taking loving care of their families and children and probably living blameless lives, contributing to society. They are in short, everything she is not.
Are they better than her? Hell, yes. In every single way. So much so I really hope you regret asking the question.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			These people that are far worse than her. Did they join and support an enemy of our country? 
Did they give themselves up whilst in a foreign country? A country we have no diplomatic arrangements with? If not your point is irrelevant.
As for your comment that maybe people donâ€™t want her back because she is Muslim. Have you stopped to consider, even once, how her actions have impacted upon her family and all Muslims in the UK? No, I thought not. Her actions and the actions of people like her have set back Muslim relations in Britain by decades. If you were really concerned about the Muslim community and not just (wrongly) using the race card for the benefit of your flawed argument, you wouldnâ€™t be protesting so loudly from your high horse. If I was a British Muslim I am pretty sure the last person I would want to see back here is this woman.
		
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Wow - itâ€™s just like the Brexit thread all over again with people like you being very forceful against other peopleâ€™s views and opinions 

Yes there are far worse than her in prison and indeed out in the public 

Peadophiles , serial rapists , child killers , mass murders , far right extremists, IRA etc etc the list is endless 

Again have you seen or heard people asking for their British Nationality removed which was the point of the post ( but you arenâ€™t able to see past your own nose )


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## Fade and Die (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			There is a big difference though.
Some people (not me) are saying what they would like to see happen to her. They are not actually doing anything other than expressing an opinion.
She, on the other hand, actually got up, left a good and comfortable home in a civilised country, got on a plane on a false passport, travelled to Syria via Turkey. Connected with Isis, married a terrorist. Got pregnant by him 3 times. Supported an organisation that wanted to see all of us who are non-Muslims dead. Including you and your family. She actually did it and she regrets none of it.
Are those posting on here better than her?
Well, I guess whist she has been supporting those who want us dead, they have probably been working, paying taxes (that she now wants to benefit from), taking loving care of their families and children and probably living blameless lives, contributing to society. They are in short, everything she is not.
Are they better than her? Hell, yes. In every single way. So much so I really hope you regret asking the question.
		
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Your smashing it out the park today sweep lad. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			There is a big difference though.
Some people (not me) are saying what they would like to see happen to her. They are not actually doing anything other than expressing an opinion.
She, on the other hand, actually got up, left a good and comfortable home in a civilised country, got on a plane on a false passport, travelled to Syria via Turkey. Connected with Isis, married a terrorist. Got pregnant by him 3 times. Supported an organisation that wanted to see all of us who are non-Muslims dead. Including you and your family. She actually did it and she regrets none of it.
Are those posting on here better than her?
Well, I guess whist she has been supporting those who want us dead, they have probably been working, paying taxes (that she now wants to benefit from), taking loving care of their families and children and probably living blameless lives, contributing to society. They are in short, everything she is not.
Are they better than her? Hell, yes. In every single way. So much so I really hope you regret asking the question.
		
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I don't regret asking the question at all. Anyone who wishes her dead, e.g. pushed out of a plane, is in my opinion, as bad as her.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			What she's associated with is abhorrent, no two ways about it. Isn't it sad and ironic that there's people willing to do something abhorrent to her. Seriously, just have a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're better than her.
		
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Sorry Bri, I canâ€™t agree, if like her friend sheâ€™d of died in a bombing from ours or the coalition should the pilots consider themselves abhorrent or are there circumstances when itâ€™s ok?
They didnâ€™t travel to join ISIS in the hope of changing them, they knew exactly what ISIS is and was and unfortunately, imo, those who live by the sword should die by the sword and thank god weâ€™ve actually got people who are willing to sacrifice their lives in the pursuit of ridding the world of this evil scurge.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I don't regret asking the question at all. Anyone who wishes her dead, e.g. pushed out of a plane, is in my opinion, as bad as her.
		
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Maybe If she hadnâ€™t joined isis, praised them, try to raise their spawn then have the balls to want to come home people wouldnâ€™t have those views


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry Bri, I canâ€™t agree, if like her friend sheâ€™d of died in a bombing from ours or the coalition should the pilots consider themselves abhorrent or are there circumstances when itâ€™s ok?
They didnâ€™t travel to join ISIS in the hope of changing them, they knew exactly what ISIS is and was and unfortunately, imo, those who live by the sword should die by the sword and thank god weâ€™ve actually got people who are willing to sacrifice their lives in the pursuit of ridding the world of this evil scurge.
		
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You know that there's a huge difference with what happens on the battlefield and what is cold blooded murder. Just as you know that shooting someone in a firefight is different to shooting a prisoner. If she'd been killed in a drone strike/bombing raid, its a consequence of war. Pushing her out of a plane is murder.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			You know that there's a huge difference with what happens on the battlefield and what is cold blooded murder. Just as you know that shooting someone in a firefight is different to shooting a prisoner. If she'd been killed in a drone strike/bombing raid, its a consequence of war. Pushing her out of a plane is murder.
		
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What if you accidentally push her


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## Hobbit (Feb 14, 2019)

Dando said:



			What if you accidentally push her
		
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Or you have your fingers crossed when you do it


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I don't regret asking the question at all. Anyone who wishes her dead, e.g. pushed out of a plane, is in my opinion, as bad as her.
		
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This is key to the argument. No one is defending her actions, just if she should be allowed back. Anyone who reckons â€˜she should be pushed out of a planeâ€™ is devaluing the argument completely. Itâ€™s knuckle dragging, rabble rousing nonsense.
Iâ€™m conflicted as to if she should be allowed back, but comments like the above have no place in the conversation


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			You know that there's a huge difference with what happens on the battlefield and what is cold blooded murder. Just as you know that shooting someone in a firefight is different to shooting a prisoner. If she'd been killed in a drone strike/bombing raid, its a consequence of war. Pushing her out of a plane is murder.
		
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Her friend was in a town when the town was shelled, thatâ€™s different to her being on a battlefield, she wasnâ€™t or isnâ€™t a soldier, they lost their rights or any sympathy imo when they voluntarily joined ISIS.
If it means Iâ€™m abhorrent for wanting her or her like wiped off the face of this earth by any means, then yes, Iâ€™m abhorrent and I have no problem living with that.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Seriously, just have a look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're better than her.
		
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Seen this said when ever someone thinks that a murderer or Pedophile deserves a bullet. 

And Iâ€™m sorry but itâ€™s a stupid thing to say.


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## PieMan (Feb 14, 2019)

Personally I don't think she should be allowed back. From what I've read it looks very much to me like 'my baby will be looked after by the NHS; and I will be by the Welfare system'. I just find that outrageous.

But obviously a very complex matter, with a number of legal issues to get round as to her citizenship status.

Saw a couple of interviews with the Security Minister this morning and thought he came across very well.

Think he also said that if she wanted to come back she had to make her way to a country that had a British Embassy and consular services (these in Damascus are currently suspended) and they would determine her status and offer help if need be. And I believe he was against the UK Government offering any help to her to get to one of those countries!!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			In fairness, it was you who raised that very point.

Tashy, I tend to find most of your posting lighthearted and jovial in some lovable naive way, but what you have written above is representative of some dangerous thinking IMO and a prime example of why emotion has to be removed from things like laws.

There are many, me included, that don't think she _should_ be allowed to return. But the world does not turn on shoulds. It turns on what is enshrined in law. Law's are not perfect and many (see my example before of a parent unfairly excluded from a child's life) can be "ass-like" but laws have to be specific enough to be enforceable but generic enough to cover multiple scenarios and edge cases. Can you imagine how complicated life would be with specific laws for *every* situation or case? As a forum of golfers that often decry the rules as being complex or too many or just plain daft, multiply that exponentially and you have the scenario of law for everything.

Law is what we must adhere to, whether we agree or not - otherwise we become no better than those we decry. There are hundreds of utterly deplorable people in this country already that have done unspeakable acts to innocent people and the law deals with them. We often don't agree with the what of the enactment, but we are seldom privvy to the how or why of the enactment.

What do you suggest, we allow emotive subject such as this case define the laws by which everyone else must live? Fair for all then?
		
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You see posts like this are when this forum is at its best. Constructive opinions. Some of which I agree with and some I don't, and a lot of which gives one something to mull over. A guy on telly has just said " a case of this complexities". That nails it on the head for me. There should be nothing complex about a situation where someone/her is involved in the murder of innocents and people who are lawfully engaged in war. Law should be changed that if that is the path she has chosen, it is a one way path.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			You know that there's a huge difference with what happens on the battlefield and what is cold blooded murder. Just as you know that shooting someone in a firefight is different to shooting a prisoner. If she'd been killed in a drone strike/bombing raid, its a consequence of war. Pushing her out of a plane is murder.
		
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How does beheading an aid worker fit into this narrative? Accident, manslaughter, act of war or cold blooded murder? Does filming it and posting it online make a difference? How about burning alive? Ripping apart? Having children commit murder?
How can you possibly compare people chatting on a golf forum to probably the most evil terrorists since WW2?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I don't regret asking the question at all. Anyone who wishes her dead, e.g. pushed out of a plane, is in my opinion, as bad as her.
		
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As much as I don't want to see here back in a divided country, I don't want to see any harm come to her. I hope one day she can see how much harm she and her comments have caused. I very much doubt that day will come.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			How does beheading an aid worker fit into this narrative? Accident, manslaughter, act of war or cold blooded murder? Does filming it and posting it online make a difference? How about burning alive? Ripping apart? Having children commit murder?
How can you possibly compare people chatting on a golf forum to probably the most evil terrorists since WW2?
		
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She hasnâ€™t been accused of any of the above. Using extreme & incorrect illustrations really does devalue the argument (more similarities with the brexit thread)
She has been, at worst complicit with the above, at best incredibly naive. 
If she had publically renounced IS, would we be more accepting? This may not be sincere? 
Iâ€™ve no issue with consigning her to a life in a Syrian refugee camp, but what about her unborn child? Innocent or guilty of its motherâ€™s crime? & is the child a uk citizen?


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - itâ€™s just like the Brexit thread all over again with people like you being very forceful against other peopleâ€™s views and opinions

Yes there are far worse than her in prison and indeed out in the public

Peadophiles , serial rapists , child killers , mass murders , far right extremists, IRA etc etc the list is endless

Again have you seen or heard people asking for their British Nationality removed which was the point of the post ( but you arenâ€™t able to see past your own nose )
		
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I really donâ€™t think my posts are any more forceful than yours.
As I said (which you ignored) are there any people worse than her that have fought against our country and gave themselves up in a foreign country with which we have no diplomatic relations? The OPâ€™s question was should we allow her back into the UK? If those you refer to were at home when arrested then they have no relevance to this case. Itâ€™s not about me seeing past my nose. I asked a question you didnâ€™t answer.
You also failed to answer my point about the Muslim community in Britain and the damage this woman and others like it have done to their relations here.
And thatâ€™s because you know this is NOTHING to do with her being Muslim. Itâ€™s because people find what she did was abhorrent. This was as close to a battle between good and evil as we have seen since WW2 and she chose evil. She elected to support an armed force against this country. She set out to see us all killed. She regrets nothing. Now her side has lost she wants to return... until next time. It was HER who set out against us in a racist battle. SHE is the racist. She defines people by their religion, specifically Muslim or otherwise to the degree that she believes all non Muslims should die. If you are against racism in Britain (which is probably the least of her less toxic points) then you should be fully against her returning.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 14, 2019)

My feeling is that as a very young girl she got brainwashed and corrupted and along with a couple of mates, went on an ideological journey to link up with ISIS

Once there they found it was no bed of roses, it was a warzone, they were married off to ISIS fighters, had children, one of the girls has been killed.

Now if at this point she says that she was wrong to join up, made a bad decision, deep regrets,just kids, been trying to escape for the past 3 years. disassociated herself from ISIS etc, then she has a chance of rehabilitation

But she isnt saying that, she is saying the opposite, so in my book she has burned her boats,


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - itâ€™s just like the Brexit thread all over again with people like you being very forceful against other peopleâ€™s views and opinions

Yes there are far worse than her in prison and indeed out in the public

Peadophiles , serial rapists , child killers , mass murders , far right extremists, IRA etc etc the list is endless

Again have you seen or heard people asking for their British Nationality removed which was the point of the post ( but you arenâ€™t able to see past your own nose )
		
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At least weâ€™re not as forcefully against other peopleâ€™s views and opinions as this 2 bob bit of scum and her mates are!


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			You see posts like this are when this forum is at its best. Constructive opinions. Some of which I agree with and some I don't, and a lot of which gives one something to mull over. A guy on telly has just said " a case of this complexities". That nails it on the head for me. There should be nothing complex about a situation where someone/her is involved in the murder of innocents and people who are lawfully engaged in war. Law should be changed that if that is the path she has chosen, it is a one way path.
		
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And this is when foum communities work. We can respectfully agree to disagree and move on. No ill will or wishes of ill to others, no name calling. 

As I say, the law is a complex thing and simply changing legislation in itself is a complex process. Intertwined laws and statutes can become exposed to loopholes that certain legal experts take full advantage of. 
I agree that certain aspects of certain laws need to be looked at but again I am steadfast in my belief that this should not be done as a recourse of emotion.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			I really donâ€™t think my posts are any more forceful than yours.
As I said (which you ignored) are there any people worse than her that have fought against our country and gave themselves up in a foreign country with which we have no diplomatic relations? The OPâ€™s question was should we allow her back into the UK? If those you refer to were at home when arrested then they have no relevance to this case. Itâ€™s not about me seeing past my nose. I asked a question you didnâ€™t answer.
You also failed to answer my point about the Muslim community in Britain and the damage this woman and others like it have done to their relations here.
And thatâ€™s because you know this is NOTHING to do with her being Muslim. Itâ€™s because people find what she did was abhorrent. This was as close to a battle between good and evil as we have seen since WW2 and she chose evil. She elected to support an armed force against this country. She set out to see us all killed. She regrets nothing. Now her side has lost she wants to return... until next time. It was HER who set out against us in a racist battle. SHE is the racist. She defines people by their religion, specifically Muslim or otherwise to the degree that she believes all non Muslims should die. If you are against racism in Britain (which is probably the least of her less toxic points) then you should be fully against her returning.
		
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 you need to clarify your points IMO. Itâ€™s impossible to be racist against either Britain or Christianity, neither are races.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			As much as I don't want to see here back in a divided country, I don't want to see any harm come to her. I hope one day she can see how much harm she and her comments have caused. I very much doubt that day will come.
		
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Just a shame she was and is still willing to see harm done to others


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			My feeling is that as a very young girl she got brainwashed and corrupted and along with a couple of mates, went on an ideological journey to link up with ISIS

Once there they found it was no bed of roses, it was a warzone, they were married off to ISIS fighters, had children, one of the girls has been killed.

Now if at this point she says that she was wrong to join up, made a bad decision, deep regrets,just kids, been trying to escape for the past 3 years. disassociated herself from ISIS etc, then she has a chance of rehabilitation

But she isnt saying that, she is saying the opposite, so in my book she has burned her boats,
		
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Iâ€™d rather she was (is) honest. Thereâ€™s a greater danger in fake contrition IMO


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

therod said:



			you need to clarify your points IMO. Itâ€™s impossible to be racist against either Britain or Christianity, neither are races.
		
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Shame people donâ€™t realise thatâ€™s the same with islam


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

therod said:



			She hasnâ€™t been accused of any of the above. Using extreme & incorrect illustrations really does devalue the argument (more similarities with the brexit thread)
She has been, at worst complicit with the above, at best incredibly naive.
If she had publically renounced IS, would we be more accepting? This may not be sincere?
Iâ€™ve no issue with consigning her to a life in a Syrian refugee camp, but what about her unborn child? Innocent or guilty of its motherâ€™s crime? & is the child a uk citizen?
		
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I didnâ€™t say she had been accused of any of those things. She joined the organisation that committed those heinous crimes and she supported them. She was one of them and they made this an us versus them war.
I am sorry but whilst I respect the opinions of all on here, to compare posters on a golf forum to members of a terrorist organisation is beyond ridiculous. People have a right to be angry at this woman and her ilk. What they did and would continue to do if allowed was beyond words. Forumers on the other hand occasionally play golf and debate. Letâ€™s get real.
As for the child, get it away from this evil bitch the minute it is born and hope he or she goes on to live a happy and fulfilling life not full of hatred.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

Dando said:



			Shame people donâ€™t realise thatâ€™s the same with islam
		
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Yep correct. None of the above are races. Just another example of incorrect emotive language being used on both sides


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

therod said:



			She hasnâ€™t been accused of any of the above. Using extreme & incorrect illustrations really does devalue the argument (more similarities with the brexit thread)
She has been, at worst complicit with the above, at best incredibly naive.
If she had publically renounced IS, would we be more accepting? This may not be sincere?
Iâ€™ve no issue with consigning her to a life in a Syrian refugee camp, but what about her unborn child? Innocent or guilty of its motherâ€™s crime? & is the child a uk citizen?
		
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The child is as much Dutch as British.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

therod said:



			you need to clarify your points IMO. Itâ€™s impossible to be racist against either Britain or Christianity, neither are races.
		
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Can you be racist against Muslims then? If you hate people from a certain country is that not being racist? If so, surely you can be racist against someone from Britain?
Other than semantics, I think you understand the point I was making. LP said we didnâ€™t want her back because she was Muslim. I argued he was wrong and that it was her who was defining Muslims from others, not us.


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## USER1999 (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			The child is as much Dutch as British.
		
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Good, then she can go to Holland. Problem sorted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			I really donâ€™t think my posts are any more forceful than yours.
As I said (which you ignored) are there any people worse than her that have fought against our country and gave themselves up in a foreign country with which we have no diplomatic relations? The OPâ€™s question was should we allow her back into the UK? If those you refer to were at home when arrested then they have no relevance to this case. Itâ€™s not about me seeing past my nose. I asked a question you didnâ€™t answer.
You also failed to answer my point about the Muslim community in Britain and the damage this woman and others like it have done to their relations here.
And thatâ€™s because you know this is NOTHING to do with her being Muslim. Itâ€™s because people find what she did was abhorrent. This was as close to a battle between good and evil as we have seen since WW2 and she chose evil. She elected to support an armed force against this country. She set out to see us all killed. She regrets nothing. Now her side has lost she wants to return... until next time. It was HER who set out against us in a racist battle. SHE is the racist. She defines people by their religion, specifically Muslim or otherwise to the degree that she believes all non Muslims should die. If you are against racism in Britain (which is probably the least of her less toxic points) then you should be fully against her returning.
		
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I have a feeling you havenâ€™t read through the thread

To be clear

No one has supported what she did

No one has said they are with her

No one had said that they want her to be allowed back into the UK

What some people have posted is a bit of middle of the road statements of facts and want to see the laws of our land deal with the situation as opposed to mob rule

Far too many people posting as if they believe others are supporting her with a poster even suggesting people are supporting ISIS ?!

Lots of people have committed awful things and they are dealt with by the law - this young lady should be dealt in the same way

And just be clear I didnâ€™t say that people didnâ€™t want her back because she was a Muslim I asked a question- again maybe you need to actually read the posts


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Can you be racist against Muslims then? If you hate people from a certain country is that not being racist? If so, surely you can be racist against someone from Britain?
Other than semantics, I think you understand the point I was making. LP said we didnâ€™t want her back because she was Muslim. I argued he was wrong and that it was her who was defining Muslims from others, not us.
		
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Iâ€™m not sure that you can exhibit racism against a multi cultural entity, but semantics aside I get your point. Any objection isnâ€™t about her being Muslim, itâ€™s about her association with a Muslim death cult


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

therod said:



			Yep correct. None of the above are races. Just another example of incorrect emotive language being used on both sides
		
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As I understand it, religion is s protected characterist


Liverpoolphil said:



			I have a feeling you havenâ€™t read through the thread

To be clear

No one has supported what she did

No one has said they are with her

No one had said that they want her to be allowed back into the UK

What some people have posted is a bit of middle of the road statements of facts and want to see the laws of our land deal with the situation as opposed to mob rule

Far too many people posting as if they believe others are supporting her with a poster even suggesting people are supporting ISIS ?!

Lots of people have committed awful things and they are dealt with by the law - this young lady should be dealt in the same way
		
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i have read every post thanks. The only thing missing from the thread is your answers to my questions.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Good, then she can go to Holland. Problem sorted.
		
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You spelt â€œhellâ€ wrong


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

therod said:



			Iâ€™m not sure that you can exhibit racism against a multi cultural entity, but semantics aside I get your point. Any objection isnâ€™t about her being Muslim, itâ€™s about her association with a Muslim death cult
		
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Agreed. And if it wasnâ€™t a Muslim death cult but another death cult the feelings would have been the same. It has nothing to do with her being Muslim.


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## Dando (Feb 14, 2019)

There's a dogooder on the one show saying she should be excused as the uk let her down and she was therefore victimised


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			As I understand it, religion is s protected characterist

i have read every post thanks. The only thing missing from the thread is your answers to my questions.
		
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You posted questions ? All I can see is someone once again â€œshouting downâ€ other peopleâ€™s view on a forum ? 

Maybe if you construct your questions in a more respectful polite manner and they have relevance you might get a response but certainly not when you â€œdemandâ€ answers


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## PieMan (Feb 14, 2019)

At the end of the day it will be the British authorities who make the decision as to whether she will be allowed back or not.

But she's played a very good hand in getting this out in the media - there'll be the usual pressure now put on the Government by the human rights lawyers and organisations.


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## Parsaregood (Feb 14, 2019)

No she shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the UK,  anyone affiliated or ISIS sympathisers should be given the death penalty in my opinion. It is obvious from her remarks she does not regret her actions and actually believes it's ok for enemies of Islam (non Islamic people) to be beheaded. Shame on them all


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You posted questions ? All I can see is someone once again â€œshouting downâ€ other peopleâ€™s view on a forum ?

Maybe if you construct your questions in a more respectful polite manner and they have relevance you might get a response but certainly not when you â€œdemandâ€ answers
		
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I havenâ€™t shouted down anyone. Get over yourself.
Nor have I demanded answers. I have offered constructive points to support my view to hopefully show why I take the view I do. If my questions have exposed weaknesses in your posts (like we donâ€™t want her back â€˜cos sheâ€™s a Muslim) and you canâ€™t answer them, then I hope I made you think.
And you might want to take your own advice on posting in a respectful and polite manner.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You posted questions ? All I can see is someone once again â€œshouting downâ€ other peopleâ€™s view on a forum ?

Maybe if you construct your questions in a more respectful polite manner and they have relevance you might get a response but certainly not when you â€œdemandâ€ answers
		
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OMG hypocrite Phil is at it again.
Are you for real,demanding answers?you have a very short memory.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			I havenâ€™t shouted down anyone. Get over yourself.
Nor have I demanded answers. I have offered constructive points to support my view to hopefully show why I take the view I do. If my questions have exposed weaknesses in your posts (like we donâ€™t want her back â€˜cos sheâ€™s a Muslim) and you canâ€™t answer them, then I hope I made you think.
And you might want to take your own advice on posting in a respectful and polite manner.
		
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Most of your posts so far in this thread just look like big blobs and rants - itâ€™s hard to see exactly what it is you are asking and also what exactly you think peopleâ€™s point is

You have said twice that I failed to answer your questions - Iâ€™m not sure exactly what your questions are as they seemed to get swallowed up within rants

So what I will do to clarify my point about this young girl

1. Do I want to see her return - nope but if she has committed a crime against the UK I hope she is charged and punished for that

2. Right now she is a British National by birth - so she has by the law the right to come back into the country , the UK authorities then deal with her

3. She has an innocent child who will be born soon and will be an British National - maybe she deserves to be given a chance

4. Do I believe it rehabilitation - yep , if she has been found to have committed no crime then imo she should be given the chance to show to change her views , if not then she stays in a secure facility

5. Do I believe some will judge her based on her religion - yes . Over the decades there have been other people who have been charged and found guilty of being terrorist sympathisers, there havenâ€™t been calls for their British citizenship to be removed , same with many people that have carried out atrocities in the UK and indeed abroad .

6. Has she put shame on the Muslim community - well yes but Iâ€™m not sure anyone has said anything different

As I said just because someone isnâ€™t part of a lynch mod and doesnâ€™t want to see someone be killed doesnâ€™t mean they automatically show support

There are still some people who believe in the law , the justice system and being able to change and show compassion - that for me is the difference between us and terrorists

Hopefully I have answered whatever question it you asked - if not god knows what you asked


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 14, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			OMG hypocrite Phil is at it again.
Are you for real,demanding answers?you have a very short memory.
		
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Ill
Ask you the question again......

Youâ€™ve still not answered my question.....

ðŸ˜‚


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## SocketRocket (Feb 14, 2019)

therod said:



			you need to clarify your points IMO. Itâ€™s impossible to be racist against either Britain or Christianity, neither are races.
		
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Maybe you could make a similar point to LP.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2019)

All those who think she should be allowed back in......what if she straps on a bomb vest and kills a load of innocent British citizens?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Maybe you could make a similar point to LP.
		
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Why ?

It was you that first brought up racism and racist card


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

drive4show said:



			All those who think she should be allowed back in......what if she straps on a bomb vest and kills a load of innocent British citizens?
		
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Ok, I'll try a little less confrontational approach. 
Few if anyone has said they think she should be allowed back in. The point most are making is that the law states it is not a question of desire to admit or otherwise. We are not lawmakers and most likely not law breakers. 

However, whatiffery isn't really a helpful tract. What if she rehabilitates and becomes an upstanding member of the community.

There is zero evidence to support either hypothetical scenario.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Ok, I'll try a little less confrontational approach.
Few if anyone has said they think she should be allowed back in. The point most are making is that the law states it is not a question of desire to admit or otherwise. We are not lawmakers and most likely not law breakers.

However, whatiffery isn't really a helpful tract. What if she rehabilitates and becomes an upstanding member of the community.

*There is zero evidence to support either hypothetical scenario*.
		
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Yes absolutely correct but I'm not convinced that many people have been successfully de-radicalised. Some people are saying that she is entitled to return (which she is) but so far she has shown no remorse. Personally I don't think that decent law abiding citizens should be put at risk.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 14, 2019)

A lot of comments on here have been made based upon " emotion" and not law. Yet her family and others are saying she could be allowed to come back based upon "emotion". So which emotion is right, one or none.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Ok, I'll try a little less confrontational approach. 
Few if anyone has said they think she should be allowed back in. The point most are making is that the law states it is not a question of desire to admit or otherwise. We are not lawmakers and most likely not law breakers. 

However, whatiffery isn't really a helpful tract. What if she rehabilitates and becomes an upstanding member of the community.

There is zero evidence to support either hypothetical scenario.
		
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Full agreement over the law side, but surely when considering were we stand on this, the whatifferies are the questions we ask ourselves and we can only base them on the information we have at hand, currently from what weâ€™ve seen and heard she has shown no remorse so the â€œwhat if she comes back and wears a suicide vestâ€ could be a real possibility and fear in some peoples minds, were as if sheâ€™d shown remorse and asked for help for herself etc then maybe some of those saying she shouldnâ€™t be allowed back, may of been a bit more tolerant in their views.


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## IanM (Feb 14, 2019)

Reading more as I was at work, it was a â€œcome and rescue meâ€ rather than a â€œcan I come back?â€

Minister said... no chance!   Iâ€™m surprised, but not disappointed.


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## User20205 (Feb 14, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Maybe you could make a similar point to LP.
		
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Yes absolutely, itâ€™s a general point


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

drive4show said:



			Yes absolutely correct but I'm not convinced that many people have been successfully de-radicalised. Some people are saying that she is entitled to return (which she is) but so far she has shown no remorse. Personally I don't think that decent law abiding citizens should be put at risk.
		
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Nor do I but neither do I have the certainty to say she will blow people up. 

Nor am I saying she is entitled. Entitlement implies deserving whereas I am saying that the law is such that deserving or not she cannot be stopped should she wish.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Nor do I but neither do I have the certainty to say she will blow people up.

Nor am I saying she is entitled. Entitlement implies deserving whereas I am saying that the law is such that deserving or not she cannot be stopped should she wish.
		
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Then we are in full agreement


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Full agreement over the law side, but surely when considering were we stand on this, the whatifferies are the questions we ask ourselves and we can only base them on the information we have at hand, currently from what weâ€™ve seen and heard she has shown no remorse so the â€œwhat if she comes back and wears a suicide vestâ€ could be a real possibility and fear in some peoples minds, were as if sheâ€™d shown remorse and asked for help for herself etc then maybe some of those saying she shouldnâ€™t be allowed back, may of been a bit more tolerant in their views.
		
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As I responded to D4S my position is whatiffery in any situation is pointless without evidence to back up a hypothesis. 

I do not believe that she should be welcomed back and believe that she should bear the consequences of her actions. That can be balanced by the fact I know what the law states and am not in a position to change it.

I should add to the above that I don't like it but, unlike many it would seem, I accept that this is the case.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 14, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			As I responded to D4S my position is whatiffery in any situation is pointless without evidence to back up a hypothesis.
		
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I do disagree with you on this point though because you have to consider every eventuality when making a risk assessment.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 14, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			As I responded to D4S my position is whatiffery in any situation is pointless without evidence to back up a hypothesis.

I do not believe that she should be welcomed back and believe that she should bear the consequences of her actions. That can be balanced by the fact I know what the law states and am not in a position to change it.

I should add to the above that I don't like it but, unlike many it would seem, I accept that this is the case.
		
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drive4show said:



			I do disagree with you on this point though because you have to consider every eventuality when making a risk assessment.
		
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I think itâ€™s as D4S says, all â€œwhat ifsâ€ will have to be considered by the government and security services, including â€œrescueingâ€ her in the hope of turning her or to get vital intelligence on other Brits who may of escaped the security services radar.

Maybe some golfers on a forum will waste their time doing the â€œwhat ifsâ€ and not add much to the debate on a forum but I really donâ€™t think it does any harm.


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## USER1999 (Feb 14, 2019)

drive4show said:



			I do disagree with you on this point though because you have to consider every eventuality when making a risk assessment.
		
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Hmm, any sort of risk assessment, and there is no way she would be allowed back. 

I was at Honeywell on Thursday, and you are not allowed to walk, and talk on a phone at the same time. You have to stop. Brilliant. No multi tasking.


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## user2010 (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that family the only one to suffer at the hand of extremists - shall we find pictures of Muslims , Catholicâ€™s , White People ,Black Prior , Mixed Race,  Indian , Chinese , Scottish , Welsh , Irish , Pakistan ,etc etc etc

There are thousands of families who have been destroyed by extremists all over the world.

What exactly does your post add beyond trying to point score and antagonise ?
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



Of all the nonsense spouted on the forum thatâ€™s prob the king of crap right there ?!

You seriously want to twist what people are posting to even slightly suggest anyone is supporting ISIS - that just beats anything spouted ?!?

Not one person on this thread who has posted is â€œsupporting herâ€ or supporting her beliefs and choices

Did you actually read that post back before clicking post !
		
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Oh the irony!!!


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## GreiginFife (Feb 14, 2019)

drive4show said:



			I do disagree with you on this point though because you have to consider every eventuality when making a risk assessment.
		
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I agree, however what I said was _without evidence_. Every risk assessment I have done has been assessed on the evidence available. I don't jeopardise a delivery because I have a personally strong but ultimately unproveable feeling about something. 

But in on the principal I agree that you must consider things. But for balance you should also consider the null hypothesis as well, IMO. 

Anyhow, early start tomorrow. G'night chaps.


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## Sweep (Feb 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most of your posts so far in this thread just look like big blobs and rants - itâ€™s hard to see exactly what it is you are asking and also what exactly you think peopleâ€™s point is

You have said twice that I failed to answer your questions - Iâ€™m not sure exactly what your questions are as they seemed to get swallowed up within rants

So what I will do to clarify my point about this young girl

1. Do I want to see her return - nope but if she has committed a crime against the UK I hope she is charged and punished for that

2. Right now she is a British National by birth - so she has by the law the right to come back into the country , the UK authorities then deal with her

3. She has an innocent child who will be born soon and will be an British National - maybe she deserves to be given a chance

4. Do I believe it rehabilitation - yep , if she has been found to have committed no crime then imo she should be given the chance to show to change her views , if not then she stays in a secure facility

5. Do I believe some will judge her based on her religion - yes . Over the decades there have been other people who have been charged and found guilty of being terrorist sympathisers, there havenâ€™t been calls for their British citizenship to be removed , same with many people that have carried out atrocities in the UK and indeed abroad .

6. Has she put shame on the Muslim community - well yes but Iâ€™m not sure anyone has said anything different

As I said just because someone isnâ€™t part of a lynch mod and doesnâ€™t want to see someone be killed doesnâ€™t mean they automatically show support

There are still some people who believe in the law , the justice system and being able to change and show compassion - that for me is the difference between us and terrorists

Hopefully I have answered whatever question it you asked - if not god knows what you asked
		
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The last time I â€œblobbedâ€ was on a stableford score. I havenâ€™t ranted. And I have to say, for someone who claims not to understand what I am posting (because itâ€™s is â€œswallowed up by rantsâ€) you certainly seem to take issue with most of it.
Anyway, much to your disappointment I am sure, none of this is about you or indeed me. In case it missed your attention the original question was should she be allowed back in the UK? We all know about British law and the justice system but - and I know this may be news to you - we are allowed to disagree with a law and think it too harsh or lenient. I believe it is understandable for people to feel frustrated that this woman can even raise the possibility of returning to a country she wanted to destroy. Especially as the only reason is so we can pay for the welfare of her unborn child and especially as she shows no remorse.
In answer to your points
1. If you get your wish and she doesnâ€™t return, how can she be charged and punished?
2. She may be a British national but she is a sworn enemy of Britain. Itâ€™s understandable that people feel itâ€™s wrong IF her citizenship cannot be revoked. Even so, without assistance it looks like she cannot return. Do you think we should give her such assistance?
3. Her innocent child could claim British, Dutch or Syrian nationality. In my view to protect the child he or she should be placed in care away from their mother.
4. Everyone seems to agree that she is showing no signs of remorse which surely would be the first step towards rehabilitation. They went to Syria prepared to die for their cause. One of them did.
5. The ISIS â€œBeatlesâ€ are the closest case in similarity to this. There have been plenty of calls for them to be stripped of their British status and not allowed back in. There have been a lot of calls for all returning ISIS fighters to be barred from entry and stripped of their citizenship. This is not unique.
6. She has not brought shame on the Muslim community, unless you think that all Muslims are the same and are all potential terrorists. No-one here believes that I am sure and thatâ€™s why the views on here have nothing to do with the fact that she is Muslim as you suggested. However, she and others have certainly made life difficult for Muslims living in Britain, particularly as the terrorist acts committed by ISIS are carried out in the name of Islam. This leads to mistrust which was all part of the ISIS grand plan to create a â€œraceâ€ war between Muslims and non Muslims.


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## huds1475 (Feb 14, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			Nor do I but neither do I have the certainty to say she will blow people up.

Nor am I saying she is entitled. Entitlement implies deserving whereas I am saying that the law is such that deserving or not she cannot be stopped should she wish.
		
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Sensible stuff mate.

The only problem I have is that she's aligned with a doctrine that's committed to the elimination, or forced subjugation, of non-believers. A doctrine that also teaches that being a martyr is a guaranteed fast-track to salvation in the afterlife.

I think that's a combination that makes these people (known widely as extremists) a little more unique / dangerous than others being quoted on these pages.

That being said, the law is the law. I might not like it, but until it changes, it is what it is.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2019)

We all say things in the heat of the moment or when carried away which is all to easy when sat at a keyboard, however I think it's probably fair to say that 98% of us think she shouldnt be allowed back and thats our own opinion rather than legal status.


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## Wolf (Feb 14, 2019)

Sweep said:



			The last time I â€œblobbedâ€ was on a stableford score. I havenâ€™t ranted. And I have to say, for someone who claims not to understand what I am posting (because itâ€™s is â€œswallowed up by rantsâ€) you certainly seem to take issue with most of it.
Anyway, much to your disappointment I am sure, none of this is about you or indeed me. In case it missed your attention the original question was should she be allowed back in the UK? We all know about British law and the justice system but - and I know this may be news to you - we are allowed to disagree with a law and think it too harsh or lenient. I believe it is understandable for people to feel frustrated that this woman can even raise the possibility of returning to a country she wanted to destroy. Especially as the only reason is so we can pay for the welfare of her unborn child and especially as she shows no remorse.
In answer to your points
1. If you get your wish and she doesnâ€™t return, how can she be charged and punished?
2. She may be a British national but she is a sworn enemy of Britain. Itâ€™s understandable that people feel itâ€™s wrong IF her citizenship cannot be revoked. Even so, without assistance it looks like she cannot return. Do you think we should give her such assistance?
3. Her innocent child could claim British, Dutch or Syrian nationality. In my view to protect the child he or she should be placed in care away from their mother.
4. Everyone seems to agree that she is showing no signs of remorse which surely would be the first step towards rehabilitation. They went to Syria prepared to die for their cause. One of them did.
5. The ISIS â€œBeatlesâ€ are the closest case in similarity to this. There have been plenty of calls for them to be stripped of their British status and not allowed back in. There have been a lot of calls for all returning ISIS fighters to be barred from entry and stripped of their citizenship. This is not unique.
6. She has not brought shame on the Muslim community, unless you think that all Muslims are the same and are all potential terrorists. No-one here believes that I am sure and thatâ€™s why the views on here have nothing to do with the fact that she is Muslim as you suggested. However, she and others have certainly made life difficult for Muslims living in Britain, particularly as the terrorist acts committed by ISIS are carried out in the name of Islam. This leads to mistrust which was all part of the ISIS grand plan to create a â€œraceâ€ war between Muslims and non Muslims.
		
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1..she can be tried in her absence by a British court much like I'm a way somoen summoned to court that fails to show the judgements go ahead in absentia 
2. According to the news just seen in TV tonight it's been reported that her citizenship can be revoked if found guilty of hate crimes towards the state. 
3. That's exactly what would happen should she return to UK, tried and convicted. Certainly can't happen by our authorities to protect the child if she is left in Syria
4. I don't particularly think there's much remorse there from the reports I've seen but admittedly there's probably a lot more I haven't read that may show this, but remorse or not the guilty verdict of. Come to imo should stand remorse or not. 


Problem in cases like this it's hard for people to seperate emotion and what they feel should be the outcome from what is right in the eyes of legality. 

I don't believe she should be allowed back in, however if she is allowed back then should go through due process and face the law and be tried and convicted accordingly.


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## backwoodsman (Feb 15, 2019)

Having read all through the thread, have decided to make one post, & one post only.

Should the British state make any effort to go and "fetch" her back. No. Should she be allowed back in if she makes the effort of her own accord. Yes. And, if she does, she should face the legal consequence of doing so.

As to the rest of the thread. Very heated and angry, and polarised. Well, it's a golf forum. Why would anyone expect the thread to have gone any differently to the way it has.

Thank you, over & out.


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## Doh (Feb 15, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Didnâ€™t she leave to join and support a terrorist organisation?
		
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Yes she did and in my book that makes her a criminal.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Sweep said:



			The last time I â€œblobbedâ€ was on a stableford score. I havenâ€™t ranted. And I have to say, for someone who claims not to understand what I am posting (because itâ€™s is â€œswallowed up by rantsâ€) you certainly seem to take issue with most of it.
		
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 the Blob was referring to your posts which make it hard to read , just a block of words with question marks - and I do believe it was you that took issue with me and with the same tone of post you use  in the Brexit â€œ Iâ€™m right your wrongâ€ kind of way




			Anyway, much to your disappointment I am sure, none of this is about you or indeed me. In case it missed your attention the original question was should she be allowed back in the UK? We all know about British law and the justice system but - and I know this may be news to you - we are allowed to disagree with a law and think it too harsh or lenient. I believe it is understandable for people to feel frustrated that this woman can even raise the possibility of returning to a country she wanted to destroy. Especially as the only reason is so we can pay for the welfare of her unborn child and especially as she shows no remorse.
		
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I know what the original question was so Iâ€™m not sure why you keep repeating it , and many people have mentioned what she is lawfully allowed to do. And she we punish her child for her actions ?




			In answer to your points
1. If you get your wish and she doesnâ€™t return, how can she be charged and punished?
		
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She can be charged and tried without her being there 



			2. She may be a British national but she is a sworn enemy of Britain. Itâ€™s understandable that people feel itâ€™s wrong IF her citizenship cannot be revoked. Even so, without assistance it looks like she cannot return. Do you think we should give her such assistance?
		
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No I donâ€™t think we should assit her to a British Embassy but if she chooses to get to one then the law deals with the situation 



			3. Her innocent child could claim British, Dutch or Syrian nationality. In my view to protect the child he or she should be placed in care away from their mother.
		
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Well that all depends on the mother and if she can care for her child 



			4. Everyone seems to agree that she is showing no signs of remorse which surely would be the first step towards rehabilitation. They went to Syria prepared to die for their cause. One of them did.
		
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She is still young ,she has been radicalised, brainwashed - she has fled at the moment away from the movement which is a first step . The next step would be to see if she can be deradicalised.  She has given one interview , could still be all a mess and still worried for her life , maybe she thinks itâ€™s not the best to denounce ISIS whilst she is still within their grasp. As a compassionate country or first choice should be to see if we can bring out the caring girl her parents knew - it must be hard for anyone to judge what she was told and made to believe 




			5. The ISIS â€œBeatlesâ€ are the closest case in similarity to this. There have been plenty of calls for them to be stripped of their British status and not allowed back in. There have been a lot of calls for all returning ISIS fighters to be barred from entry and stripped of their citizenship. This is not unique.
		
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I was judging her solely and her situation as opposed to ISIS as a whole - people were suggesting she has her British Nationality removed 

Right now itâ€™s not known what exactly she has carried out - there are people in the UK that have carried out atrocities- as i said - serial rapists , child killers , peodophiles , murders and terrorists - has she done worse then them ? 




			6. She has not brought shame on the Muslim community, unless you think that all Muslims are the same and are all potential terrorists. No-one here believes that I am sure and thatâ€™s why the views on here have nothing to do with the fact that she is Muslim as you suggested. However, she and others have certainly made life difficult for Muslims living in Britain, particularly as the terrorist acts committed by ISIS are carried out in the name of Islam. This leads to mistrust which was all part of the ISIS grand plan to create a â€œraceâ€ war between Muslims and non Muslims.
		
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I have no doubt if this was a 15 year old white girl who left to be with someone from say the IRA but then wanted to return the reaction would be different 

Over the past 20 years attitudes towards Muslims has remarkably changed and a lot of reaction is based on her being a Muslim - just my opinion 

She is a young girl who was radicalised and brainwashed by an ideal - she was no doubt told she would be given a place upon high by being a wife and a mother to a in their eyes a Freedome Fighter , her parents lost their daughter so when a chance comes along to show that we arenâ€™t like them and we can show compassion and teach the young girl that there is space on the world for everyone regardless of beliefs then we should take that chance and then also give her unborn child a better chance in the world.

Maybe we as a nation are becoming less compassionate and caring


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## oxymoron (Feb 15, 2019)

Ok let me suggest something else to consider ,, we do not want her here , we can possibly try her for being a member\associate of a terrorist organisation or some other charge yet to be proved.
Why cant we just hand her over to one of the states that was overrun by ISIS and let them try her for assisting in the destruction of their country, the murder of their citizens and such like
i am sure she would be dealt with far better than we would   .   If she contributed to the terror and destruction of those societies i am sure they would like to dish out some of their justice
the same as they were subject to by her chosen caliphate .

Wont happen though we are too civilized, the polar opposite of what she set out to join up with.

Oh and LiverpoolPhil ,, i dont think we have become less compassionate and caring but i do think we are getting fed up with being taken advantage of .


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 15, 2019)

backwoodsman said:



			Having read all through the thread, have decided to make one post, & one post only.

*Should the British state make any effort to go and "fetch" her back. No. Should she be allowed back in if she makes the effort of her own accord. Yes. And, if she does, she should face the legal consequence of doing so.*

As to the rest of the thread. Very heated and angry, and polarised. Well, it's a golf forum. Why would anyone expect the thread to have gone any differently to the way it has.

Thank you, over & out.
		
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Sums it up nicely for me.  I'd add one more thought; how many of us on here making judgements on her would not change some of the decisions we made or views we held as a 15 year old; would we actually be comfortable being judged on them today?  

She was undeniably stupid or naive to think that the bed of roses she was being sold actually existed, but do any of us know what she was sold or what she was escaping from.  On the lack of contrition, maybe she knows that anything she says will get back to ISIS and could make her life difficult.  

I'll reserve my hatred & vitriol for those who turned her.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2019)

Just to add a bit of fuel to the fire, it is estimated that 900 people left this country to fight / support ISIS. 360 Have returned, 360 have gone missing. Now it may just be me but I don't find that comforting. And it kinda makes a mockery of the " they will be tried when they return" comments.
Seems this woman is not an isolated case and glad to hear the Home Secretary will do al he can to prevent her return.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2019)

oxymoron said:



			i dont think we have become less compassionate and caring but i do think we are getting fed up with being taken advantage of .
		
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Spot on. 

I reckon people would soon change their tune if they were directly affected by it.


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			Spot on.

I reckon people would soon change their tune if they were directly affected by it.
		
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But that's vengeance, not justice...

Anyway, the timing of the release of this story is interesting. It's certainly taken pretty much everything else off the news rotation. It's got discussions raging up and down the Country. I wonder what it's taking focus away from? ðŸ¤”


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## GreiginFife (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			But that's vengeance, not justice...

Anyway, the timing of the release of this story is interesting. It's certainly taken pretty much everything else off the news rotation. It's got discussions raging up and down the Country. I wonder what it's taking focus away from? ðŸ¤”
		
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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



View attachment 26598

Click to expand...



I just asked the question.. You're the one who jumped to the (obvious) conclusion!!!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

oxymoron said:



			Ok let me suggest something else to consider ,, we do not want her here , we can possibly try her for being a member\associate of a terrorist organisation or some other charge yet to be proved.
Why cant we just hand her over to one of the states that was overrun by ISIS and let them try her for assisting in the destruction of their country, the murder of their citizens and such like
i am sure she would be dealt with far better than we would   .   If she contributed to the terror and destruction of those societies i am sure they would like to dish out some of their justice
the same as they were subject to by her chosen caliphate .

Wont happen though we are too civilized, the polar opposite of what she set out to join up with.

Oh and LiverpoolPhil ,, i dont think we have become less compassionate and caring but i do think we are getting fed up with being taken advantage of .
		
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I think this thread is just a small picture of the outside world and the changing attitudes towards others and then add in the Brexit thread and you can see that people these days donâ€™t care about others and we are becoming a selfish nation with little compassion. Social media has maybe fuelled that and given a lot of people a mouthpiece to spout off and create issues.

Religion imo isnâ€™t a great thing BUT something they do seem to have is trying to ask people to show more compassion and caring of others - people these days want to see punishment and to see people suffer for their crimes but doesnâ€™t seem to be any space for rehabilitation and forgiveness , yes itâ€™s all words and at times the actions are harder and some people in many situations just wonâ€™t be able to forgive but there are many who arenâ€™t directly affected by situations can maybe just take a step back and show a bit of heart.

I have no doubt people will call that â€œsnowflakeâ€ etc etc but I do recall a saying 

What sets us apart in a civilised country from the terrorists and dictators is out ability to show compassion and forgiveness - lets hope that doesnâ€™t erode away


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## Grant85 (Feb 15, 2019)

Purely from a legal point of view, I don't imagine the UK can stop her entering. 

When she is on UK soil, then of course she may have to face criminal charges. It may well be more difficult than you would think to fairly and legally convict her of anything, certainly anything that would come with serious jail time. 

I see the Home Secretary has said he 'may prevent her return'. I think legally, he would be on shaky ground here - especially with regards to the unborn child. 

I'd imagine the most likely course of action, if she returns, is she will face charges of inciting terrorism... assuming she isn't about to admit to anything and hasn't committed any physical crimes on UK soil and there is probably zero evidence that she committed an act of war. 

And in all honesty... as a country we should be better than that. Show a 19 year old that this is a country tolerant and compassionate and are hundreds of times better than the philosophy and ideals of anything she encountered in the Middle East. 

That is how to win the war on terror. Locking her up with or without trial or leaving her child to die in a refugee camp doesn't speak to me as a 'win'.


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## oxymoron (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think this thread is just a small picture of the outside world and the changing attitudes towards others and then add in the Brexit thread and you can see that people these days donâ€™t care about others and we are becoming a selfish nation with little compassion. Social media has maybe fuelled that and given a lot of people a mouthpiece to spout off and create issues.

Religion imo isnâ€™t a great thing BUT something they do seem to have is trying to ask people to show more compassion and caring of others -* people these days want to see punishment and to see people suffer for their crimes* but doesnâ€™t seem to be any space for rehabilitation and forgiveness , yes itâ€™s all words and at times the actions are harder and some people in many situations just wonâ€™t be able to forgive but there are many who arenâ€™t directly affected by situations can maybe just take a step back and show a bit of heart.

I have no doubt people will call that â€œsnowflakeâ€ etc etc but I do recall a saying

*What sets us apart in a civilised country from the terrorists and dictators is out ability to show compassion* and forgiveness - lets hope that doesnâ€™t erode away
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but i have to disagree here ( with the bold statement) , i would rather not  see any one suffer and i definitely would like to see no crime to be punished in the first place . However if a crime is committed then so be it, a level of punishment must be applied to
the offender and it must be at a level appropriate for the offence committed .

Your second line about compassion and forgiveness , where was ISIS in this ? You can only respond with kindness so many times before it bites you in the arse, so sometimes its better to sink your teeth in first not always palatable but there you go .Its a slippery slope if you keep turning the other cheek and keep getting it slapped , you have to stand up for yourself and indeed your way of life\beliefs and such .


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## nickjdavis (Feb 15, 2019)

Dando said:



			thankfully her husband is dead!
		
Click to expand...

Is he? I thought he'd surrendered to the Syrian authorities and been imprisoned, tortured etc....but was still alive.


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## huds1475 (Feb 15, 2019)

oxymoron said:



			Your second line about compassion and forgiveness , where was ISIS in this ? You can only respond with kindness so many times before it bites you in the arse, so sometimes its better to sink your teeth in first not always palatable but there you go .Its a slippery slope if you keep turning the other cheek and keep getting it slapped , you have to stand up for yourself and indeed your way of life\beliefs and such .
		
Click to expand...



They are committed to the killing of non-believers.
They believe dying for this cause gets them a free pass to the afterlife. It's not a good combination.

If people genuinely believe those two things then compassion is off the table. 

These beliefs are a pretty unique set of circumstances, so comparison & analogy doesn't work.

That said, the law is the law, and should be respected as the framework by which we deal with this particular situation.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think this thread is just a small picture of the outside world and the changing attitudes towards others and then add in the Brexit thread and you can see that people these days donâ€™t care about others and we are becoming a selfish nation with little compassion. 
 - people these days want to see punishment and to see people suffer for their crimes but doesnâ€™t seem to be any space for rehabilitation and forgiveness
		
Click to expand...

I think there may be some truth in what you say, however I would also suggest that it's the perception of "do as you please our State will carry you" that probably grates on most and leads to peoples initial reactions, and can you really blame them?


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## USER1999 (Feb 15, 2019)

nickjdavis said:



			Is he? I thought he'd surrendered to the Syrian authorities and been imprisoned, tortured etc....but was still alive.
		
Click to expand...

She comes here, has kid, husband comes here as familly, and his human rights to familly life. Great, then there's two of them.


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## Captainron (Feb 15, 2019)

Iâ€™ve read the whole thread now and reflected on it. 

I donâ€™t think that she should be let back in (my opinion) but if she did come back then she would have to be let back in (fact) under law. 

She would no doubt be detained under terrorism laws and subject to a massive sensationalised trial which would further divide opinion. At the end of which she will be found guilty I am sure and have to serve time. Add into this having a child while in custody and things just get overly messy. There is no simple solution here and everything will need to be done according to the law in Britain. 

Our opinion on the matter has zero bearing on what will actually happen but itâ€™s good to have a discussion about it all. 

I would imagine that there would be some fairly vitriolic protesting done should she make her way back to Britain.  Both extremes of the argument are never averse to a good old gathering and march


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## PieMan (Feb 15, 2019)

Captainron said:



			Both extremes of the argument are never averse to a good old gathering and march
		
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At least the weather is good for that at the moment!!


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## Old Skier (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no doubt if this was a 15 year old white girl who left to be with someone from say the IRA but then wanted to return the reaction would be different
		
Click to expand...

You need doubt because my reaction would be the same.

PS:  She can have her citizenship removed if it is proven that she is a security risk to the state.  Even the retired head of the governments deradicalization programme stated that listening to her interview, and obviously it was just a snap shot, feels that in her present state she is not ready to give up her ISIS beliefs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think this thread is just a small picture of the outside world and the changing attitudes towards others and then add in the Brexit thread and you can see that people these days donâ€™t care about others and we are becoming a selfish nation with little compassion. Social media has maybe fuelled that and given a lot of people a mouthpiece to spout off and create issues.

Religion imo isnâ€™t a great thing BUT something they do seem to have is trying to ask people to show more compassion and caring of others - people these days want to see punishment and to see people suffer for their crimes but doesnâ€™t seem to be any space for rehabilitation and forgiveness , yes itâ€™s all words and at times the actions are harder and some people in many situations just wonâ€™t be able to forgive but there are many who arenâ€™t directly affected by situations can maybe just take a step back and show a bit of heart.

I have no doubt people will call that â€œsnowflakeâ€ etc etc but I do recall a saying

What sets us apart in a civilised country from the terrorists and dictators is out ability to show compassion and forgiveness - lets hope that doesnâ€™t erode away
		
Click to expand...

Virtually every war/conflict since time began has been because of religious divide, now you quote religion to help your point!

Countries, including ourselves have had to stand up to evil time and time again, itâ€™s not a new thing because of social media.

Look at the Arab world and their efforts to help stamp out ISIS, nobody has suggested peace talks, do you ever ask why? Because they were not interested, simple, they have one aim, the eradication of every non-believer and those that side with the non-believers.

As you like soundbites, hereâ€™s another one.

â€œWalk softly and carry a big stick and you will go farâ€


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			â€œWalk softly and carry a big stick and you will go farâ€
		
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I've seen you hit the big stick mate.. You weren't walking that far to find the ball..


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## drdel (Feb 15, 2019)

How would your opinions change were "she" a "he" and childlesss?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			I've seen you hit the big stick mate.. You weren't walking that far to find the ball.. 

Click to expand...

That's brutal. Funny but brutal. 

The sad part is I've played with Paul and he hits it a good way past me . I'll not bother with the weight of a big stck on my walk then, pointless.


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That's brutal. Funny but brutal.

The sad part is I've played with Paul and he hits it a good way past me . I'll not bother with the weight of a big stck on my walk then, pointless.
		
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To be fair, Paul knocks it a decent way, but the set up was too perfect to miss...


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 15, 2019)

drdel said:



			How would your opinions change were "she" a "he" and childlesss?
		
Click to expand...

It is always good to do that. See a person in a suit, put them in a shellsuit with a fag hanging out of their mouths. Reverse that etc. It is interesting to do as we do see people in a certain way and we need to be more dispassionate.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Virtually every war/conflict since time began has been because of religious divide, now you quote religion to help your point!

Countries, including ourselves have had to stand up to evil time and time again, itâ€™s not a new thing because of social media.

Look at the Arab world and their efforts to help stamp out ISIS, nobody has suggested peace talks, do you ever ask why? Because they were not interested, simple, they have one aim, the eradication of every non-believer and those that side with the non-believers.

As you like soundbites, hereâ€™s another one.

â€œWalk softly and carry a big stick and you will go farâ€
		
Click to expand...

I agree on most of this except the part social media plays, IMO it can't be underestimated. 
In wars gone past, propaganda was physical media or broadcast on medium that had limited reach (few people had TVs and radio has multiple stations). Social media allows the faster propagation of information across the world, is wider accessed and "viral" (in the truest sense of the word) and influences people of which the like TV and radio never could (think about the rise of "influencers" on SM platforms). 

So I do think social media as a mouthpiece is significant today. 
Civilised people should always stand up to evil in all its guises (and that's not a religious standpoint).


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## Sweep (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



*the Blob was referring to your posts which make it hard to read , just a block of words with question marks - and I do believe it was you that took issue with me and with the same tone of post you use  in the Brexit â€œ Iâ€™m right your wrongâ€ kind of way*
I think you are just admitting here that you just havenâ€™t really read my posts because they are simply not what you want to hear. And letâ€™s get this clear. You are no position to lecture me on â€œIâ€™m right, you are wrongâ€ kind of posting. Others have posted on the irony of this claim. If you donâ€™t like the way I post I suggest you look at yourself first. And please stop with the fake offence taking. Were you not in the military? And you tell me you are bothered by a few hurty words?

*I know what the original question was so Iâ€™m not sure why you keep repeating it , and many people have mentioned what she is lawfully allowed to do. And she we punish her child for her actions ?*
I keep repeating it because you seem to have forgotten that this was whether she should be allowed back in or not. It wasnâ€™t about some rambling opinion about legal processes you had to come up with to back up your argument.
I have never at any point suggested we should punish the child. Neither has anyone else, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make there.

*She can be charged and tried without her being there*
Indeed. But you said charged, tried and punished. How will she be punished?

*Well that all depends on the mother and if she can care for her child*
Are you not in the least concerned the child will be brought up radicalised by his or her mothers beliefs? You seem pretty sure that this woman was radicalised at 15 so it must be pretty easy to radicalise from birth.

*She is still young ,she has been radicalised,*

How do you know? Itâ€™s rather a sweeping assumption. Was everyone who fought for ISIS radicalised? Even the BBC said today that the most ardent supporters left months ago and that she must be fairly hardcore to still be there.

*I was judging her solely and her situation as opposed to ISIS as a whole - people were suggesting she has her British Nationality removed *
You said others had done worse and not had demands for their citizenship to be revoked. I was pointing out that they had and her situation was not unique.

*I have no doubt if this was a 15 year old white girl who left to be with someone from say the IRA but then wanted to return the reaction would be different*

I disagree, except thankfully the IRA were nothing like as prevalent as ISIS. They did not control and lawlessly govern thousands of square miles of territory. Most who were captured were caught in NI, so not comparable to this case.
You mention skin colour. This is nothing to do with skin colour. Itâ€™s not acceptable to label everyone who disagrees with your opinion as racist. Itâ€™s insulting, itâ€™s factually incorrect and it legitimatises real racism. You should apologise.

*Maybe we as a nation are becoming less compassionate and caring*
Are you surprised when faced with an enemy such as this? How compassionate and caring were we towards the naziâ€™s? I seem to recall we hanged them. What do you think life would have been like if ISIS had won? What do you think life WAS like for non Muslims living under their rule? How much compassion did they ever show to anyone? How do you think the families of those innocent aid workers who were beheaded are feeling now? They have to live with the horror and grief everyday for the rest of their lives. Can you imagine for just one moment what life is like for them? And all because of this woman and her ilk. 
I get that we are better than them but there had to be consequences for people who chose to support such evil. She made her choice. Thankfully it was the wrong one. She should count herself lucky she did not perish in a bombing like her friend did. She made that choice to go there.
We should have the choice who lives amongst us and if thatâ€™s unlawful then the law is wrong. She seemed to like the idea of a life in Syria so for me she can have it.
		
Click to expand...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2019)

GreiginFife said:



			I agree on most of this except the part social media plays, IMO it can't be underestimated. 
In wars gone past, propaganda was physical media or broadcast on medium that had limited reach (few people had TVs and radio has multiple stations). Social media allows the faster propagation of information across the world, is wider accessed and "viral" (in the truest sense of the word) and influences people of which the like TV and radio never could (think about the rise of "influencers" on SM platforms). 

So I do think social media as a mouthpiece is significant today. 
Civilised people should always stand up to evil in all its guises (and that's not a religious standpoint).
		
Click to expand...

Social media plays a part, but itâ€™s not led to anything new when facing evil, evil has always been confronted, social media as you say has just speeded the information up.


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## GreiginFife (Feb 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Social media plays a part, but itâ€™s not led to anything new when facing evil, evil has always been confronted, social media as you say has just speeded the information up.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed but the faster the spread the bigger the issue in my experience. 
But on the whole, agreed.


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 15, 2019)

We could just leave it to the message board posters on the Daily Mail to decide.     That would be fair and impartial â€¦....


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## 4LEX (Feb 15, 2019)

Let her back in. On the proviso Prince Philip picks her up and drives her home. It'll be cleaner than the Diana job in Paris, no worries!


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2019)

4LEX said:



			Let her back in. On the proviso Prince Philip picks her up and drives her home. It'll be cleaner than the Diana job in Paris, no worries!
		
Click to expand...

If I was you I would edit that bit out about Diana, crass at the very least.


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## woody69 (Feb 15, 2019)

This thread has some amusing responses.

She is a British citizen and that is her universal human right that cannot be revoked. Britain cannot strip her of her citizenship and leave her stateless, so if she finds a way to get to a country with an active British Embassy, she will be coming back whether you like it or not.


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## 4LEX (Feb 15, 2019)

woody69 said:



			This thread has some amusing responses.

She is a British citizen and that is her universal human right that cannot be revoked. Britain cannot strip her of her citizenship and leave her stateless, so if she finds a way to get to a country with an active British Embassy, she will be coming back whether you like it or not.
		
Click to expand...

Sadly this is true. The likes of Liberty will champion her cause and make her seem like a saint and everyone as evil. Punishment for a minor joining a terror group, without proof she comitted any further crime will be a slap on the wrist.

Mi6 missed the boat. She should've ended up a million pieces along with her cohort Mr Jihadi John.


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## oxymoron (Feb 15, 2019)

woody69 said:



			This thread has some amusing responses.

She is a British citizen and that is* her universal human right *that cannot be revoked. Britain cannot strip her of her citizenship and leave her stateless, so if she finds a way to get to a country with an active British Embassy, she will be coming back whether you like it or not.
		
Click to expand...

Its a shame her ISIS buddies did not respect others human rights then we would not be arguing the toss.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2019)

She will probably be on sky news reviewing the papers in a couple of years working as a UN ambassador for Human Rights. Have a nice Council Flat in the Islamic State of Tower Hamlets and raking in a nice wedge of state benefits, although she won't need a lot after her huge state compensation award fought with state aid for our culpability in allowing her to leave the country as a teenager and join a terrorist group.

We should show compassion though, I mean when she was a vunerable 15 year old and watching beheadings and mutilation of aid workers on twitter and thinking 'I could do with some of this'  her School teachers should have recognised the signs and called in the Social Workers.  Personally I blame the parents.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 15, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			She will probably be on sky news reviewing the papers in a couple of years working as a UN ambassador for Human Rights. Have a nice Council Flat in the Islamic State of Tower Hamlets and raking in a nice wedge of state benefits, although she won't need a lot after her huge state compensation award fought with state aid for our culpability in allowing her to leave the country as a teenager and join a terrorist group.

We should show compassion though, I mean when she was a vunerable 15 year old and watching beheadings and mutilisation of aid workers on twitter and thinking 'I could do with some of this'  her School teachers should have recognised the signs and called in the Social Workers.  Personally I blame the parents.
		
Click to expand...

You know the content of the second paragraph to be fact do you? Thought not.


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## Dando (Feb 15, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			She will probably be on sky news reviewing the papers in a couple of years working as a UN ambassador for Human Rights. Have a nice Council Flat in the Islamic State of Tower Hamlets and raking in a nice wedge of state benefits, although she won't need a lot after her huge state compensation award fought with state aid for our culpability in allowing her to leave the country as a teenager and join a terrorist group.

We should show compassion though, I mean when she was a vunerable 15 year old and watching beheadings and mutilisation of aid workers on twitter and thinking 'I could do with some of this'  her School teachers should have recognised the signs and called in the Social Workers.  Personally I blame the parents.
		
Click to expand...

there was an interview on The One Show last night with some pupils from her old school and one of the idiots blamed the school and the Government for failing her and she had been victimised so she left for that 5* all you can behead resort that is Syria


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 15, 2019)

woody69 said:



			This thread has some amusing responses.

She is a British citizen and that is her universal human right that cannot be revoked. Britain cannot strip her of her citizenship and leave her stateless, so if she finds a way to get to a country with an active British Embassy, she will be coming back whether you like it or not.
		
Click to expand...


Equally amusing with responses from people who feel the need to point out that it's within the law that she has the right to come back, when the question for the thread is "*SHOULD* she be allowed back in?".

The "universal human rights law" is most certainly something that could be changed as we decide what's included in it.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			You know the content of the second paragraph to be fact do you? Thought not. 

Click to expand...

Of course its a fact, I read it on twitter. ðŸ‘

Do you question her awareness of what was being carried out against people by Daesh before she decided to go to Syria and be associated with it.


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

To be fair, When I was 15 I spent almost a month thinking that the Tories might just be a worthwhile vote.. So we can all change for the better as we grow up eh?


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## Dando (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			To be fair, When I was 15 I spent almost a month thinking that the Tories might just be a worthwhile vote.. So we can all change for the better as we grow up eh?



Click to expand...

are you sure you weren't sat there dreaming of stealing a passport, jumping on a plane to turkey, crossing the boarder to Syria illegally and not being fazed at the thought of someone having their head lopped off because they didn't agree with your stone age beliefs


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

Dando said:



			are you sure you weren't sat there dreaming of stealing a passport, jumping on a plane to turkey, crossing the boarder to Syria illegally and not being fazed at the thought of someone having their head lopped off because they didn't agree with your stone age beliefs
		
Click to expand...

No, it was worse than that. I actually thought Maggie was doing a good job


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## Imurg (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			No, it was worse than that. I actually thought Maggie was doing a good job 

Click to expand...

You like walking on thin ice don't you...


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## Hobbit (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			No, it was worse than that. I actually thought Maggie was doing a good job 

Click to expand...

Best PM in the last 50 years


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Best PM in the last 50 years 

Click to expand...

Certainly better than the current one, and the last one. ðŸ˜‰


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## Hobbit (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			Certainly better than the current one, and the last one. ðŸ˜‰
		
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Have we got one at present?


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Have we got one at present?
		
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We do, but he's a bit busy also running Russia at the moment ðŸ˜‰


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Have we got one at present?
		
Click to expand...

Not even a shadow


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

This girl is poison, she shows no remorse. Left the country to join and support a terrorist organisation who commits atrocities by the hundred. She has said she does not regret it and feels perfectly at ease seeing the heads of the beheaded 'enemies of Islam' in bins. Hanging would too good for her in all honesty. Time the government actually started doing something about extremists in this country, it is far to commonplace


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2019)

Just listening to a guy on telly who said that it is legally and morally wrong to not allow her to return as she has no other State.
Now could someone enlighten me coz I thought she had joined the IS which is short for Islamic STATE. She has a state, she just don't like it now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Just listening to a guy on telly who said that it is legally and morally wrong to not allow her to return as she has no other State.
Now could someone enlighten me coz I thought she had joined the IS which is short for Islamic STATE. She has a state, she just don't like it now.
		
Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s not officially recognised as a nation or a state


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thatâ€™s not officially recognised as a nation or a state
		
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The government should officially take away her right to live in this country


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 15, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Of course its a fact, I read it on twitter. ðŸ‘

Do you question her awareness of what was being carried out against people by Daesh before she decided to go to Syria and be associated with it.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m sure she was probably aware of going on, the reasons behind it I donâ€™t know that she is capable of working out at 15. Iâ€™m sure The Donald is not the only person capable of spouting fake news and Iâ€™m sure that the ISIS recruiters are capable of putting the right spin on it to turn the gullible or naive. Iâ€™m equally sure that if she has realised the error of her ways then sheâ€™s not stupid enough to shout ISIS are a bunch of scumbags from the safety of a Syrian refugee camp.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			To be fair, When I was 15 I spent almost a month thinking that the Tories might just be a worthwhile vote.. So we can all change for the better as we grow up eh?



Click to expand...

As she changed her way of thinking?


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			Iâ€™m sure she was probably aware of going on, the reasons behind it I donâ€™t know that she is capable of working out at 15. Iâ€™m sure The Donald is not the only person capable of spouting fake news and Iâ€™m sure that the ISIS recruiters are capable of putting the right spin on it to turn the gullible or naive. Iâ€™m equally sure that if she has realised the error of her ways then sheâ€™s not stupid enough to shout ISIS are a bunch of scumbags from the safety of a Syrian refugee camp.
		
Click to expand...

She said she has no regrets, the caliphate is over that's the reason she wants to come back. Also she doesn't mind seeing beheaded heads in bins etc. She's as radical as they come and for her to be allowed to potentially spew her poison here would be extremely irresponsible. Also her life would probably be in danger as some far right groups would seek her out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			The government should officially take away her right to live in this country
		
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Well they will need to go through a process to decide if she is a danger to the nation etc because I believe by international law you canâ€™t leave a person without a nationality


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well they will need to go through a process to decide if she is a danger to the nation etc because I believe by international law you canâ€™t leave a person without a nationality
		
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I'm pretty sure they have worked out she's a danger to the nation already, the home Secretary says he will do whatever he can to ensure she cannot return. Hope he stays true to his word


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thatâ€™s not officially recognised as a nation or a state
		
Click to expand...

When it comes to Officially, I don't think she was officially bothered about using a false passport to join her unofficial State. So now she wants to use laws to get back to this country. Laws in which she fought against.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			I'm pretty sure they have worked out she's a danger to the nation already, the home Secretary says he will do whatever he can to ensure she cannot return. Hope he stays true to his word
		
Click to expand...

Well thatâ€™s one person and I donâ€™t believe he has the right to remove someoneâ€™s nationality- I also suspect itâ€™s just a soundbite from a politician. As for being a danger to the nation - well we employ security services to determine that but I suspect they wonâ€™t remove her nationality- people who have actually fought for ISIS havenâ€™t had their nationality removed when caught instead charged , punished and serving long prison sentences - this girl I suspect may not have even carried out any type of attack.


Tashyboy said:



			When it comes to Officially, I don't think she was officially bothered about using a false passport to join her unofficial State. So now she wants to use laws to get back to this country. Laws in which she fought against.
		
Click to expand...

Yes we know how she left on an ideal of the promised land etc etc but you sentence doesnâ€™t change the fact that ISIS isnâ€™t an official recognised state and she is a British National.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 15, 2019)

Her age is irrelevant, the legal age of responsibility is 10 years old in England.


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well thatâ€™s one person and I donâ€™t believe he has the right to remove someoneâ€™s nationality- I also suspect itâ€™s just a soundbite from a politician. As for being a danger to the nation - well we employ security services to determine that but I suspect they wonâ€™t remove her nationality- people who have actually fought for ISIS havenâ€™t had their nationality removed when caught instead charged , punished and serving long prison sentences - this girl I suspect may not have even carried out any type of attack.


Yes we know how she left on an ideal of the promised land etc etc but you sentence doesnâ€™t change the fact that ISIS isnâ€™t an official recognised state and she is a British National.
		
Click to expand...

Prison is too good for them, public hanging or stoning would be a more appropriate sentence. I don't care whether she carried out an attack or not she has the potential to radicalise others and act as a sort of beacon for them. There will be outrage if she is allowed on this soil again and rightly so


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## Rooter (Feb 15, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Prison is too good for them, public hanging or stoning would be a more appropriate sentence. I don't care whether she carried out an attack or not she has the potential to radicalise others and act as a sort of beacon for them. There will be outrage if she is allowed on this soil again and rightly so
		
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I'll have two pointy ones, two flat ones and a bag of gravel.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2019)

We should let her come back and be deradicalised in a new resettlement camp situated on South Georgia. That fresh air should help to clear the head of the crap in it now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Prison is too good for them, public hanging or stoning would be a more appropriate sentence. I don't care whether she carried out an attack or not *she has the potential to radicalise others and act as a sort of beacon for them.* There will be outrage if she is allowed on this soil again and rightly so
		
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Well thatâ€™s not sentences that can be carried out in this country - but it is the sort of sentence ISIS carried out ? We are supposed to be the civilised nation yet you want stoning and hanging ?

The bit in bold - she can also be used as a beacon to show how wrong ISIS is and there is a better life with better choices 

As for being outraged- thatâ€™s a daily occurrence these days over everything


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well thatâ€™s not sentences that can be carried out in this country - but it is the sort of sentence ISIS carried out ? We are supposed to be the civilised nation yet you want stoning and hanging ?

The bit in bold - she can also be used as a beacon to show how wrong ISIS is and there is a better life with better choices

As for being outraged- thatâ€™s a daily occurrence these days over everything
		
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Yeah she's a great candidate for that saying she doesn't regret a thing. Sometimes things have to be done for the protection of society and removing people like this and removing the harm they do seems like a perfectly reasonable way to help solve the problem. The less of them there are the less of a problem it will be, and perhaps if sentences like this were given, it would actually be a deterrent.


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## bluewolf (Feb 15, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Now could someone enlighten me coz I thought she had joined the IS which is short for Islamic STATE. She has a state, she just don't like it now.
		
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Oh my God!! ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜³
Does that mean I'm now from 808 State? That's what I spent a load of my teenage years listening to!!!!!!






Help, I've been RADICALised!!!


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## Imurg (Feb 15, 2019)

Rooter said:



			I'll have two pointy ones, two flat ones and a bag of gravel.
		
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There's no women around here are there...???


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well thatâ€™s one person and I donâ€™t believe he has the right to remove someoneâ€™s nationality- I also suspect itâ€™s just a soundbite from a politician. As for being a danger to the nation - well we employ security services to determine that but I suspect they wonâ€™t remove her nationality- people who have actually fought for ISIS havenâ€™t had their nationality removed when caught instead charged , punished and serving long prison sentences - this girl I suspect may not have even carried out any type of attack.


Yes we know how she left on an ideal of the promised land etc etc but you sentence doesnâ€™t change the fact that ISIS isnâ€™t an official recognised state and she is a British National.
		
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So if you suspect she may not of carried out any type of attack, why do you hope she doesnâ€™t return? (As youâ€™ve stated)


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## Rooter (Feb 15, 2019)

Imurg said:



			There's no women around here are there...???
		
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Who said that???


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Yeah she's a great candidate for that saying she doesn't regret a thing. Sometimes things have to be done for the protection of society and removing people like this and removing the harm they do seems like a perfectly reasonable way to help solve the problem. The less of them there are the less of a problem it will be, and perhaps if sentences like this were given, it would actually be a deterrent.
		
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Well first thing the death penalty as a deterrent doesnâ€™t work - in fact it would turn people into martyrs and allow them figures they could look up to. 

She has given one interview so far and still within the reaches of ISIS so itâ€™s prob not the best idea to â€œdenounceâ€ considering where she is - sit her down with security authorities and social worker and then an assessment is made - show the UK isnâ€™t the â€œ horror nationâ€that itâ€™s portrayed by the radicals


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## Fish (Feb 15, 2019)

There are many issues here. 

Firstly we havenâ€™t set a precedent as weâ€™ve let loads back who we knew went to actually fight for ISIS and we havenâ€™t even charged them when they slipped back in. 

They havenâ€™t been sought or outed like this girl but then this was always going to make more headlines and cause more outrage, especially being pregnant. 

Her being 15 when she left holds no water for me, she left with her fathers blessing and took on a journey and route that some adults would find difficult to stay under the radar, but she achieved it, as a 15 year old. 

She shows no remorse and has publicly stated she has no regrets! 

For me sheâ€™s a potential sleeper, someone who will step up when called to arms, her child will be offered to be protected and brought up with their warped ideals, even over here, but she has the capacity to be a future recruiter and suicide vest carrier, imo. 

Iâ€™d be surprised if she doesnâ€™t hold any dual nationality, itâ€™s normal for even siblings born in the uk to non British born parents to have like them, a dual nationality, if this was the case, it could make things much more easier. 

I donâ€™t buy into the â€˜sheâ€™ll be knownâ€™ and monitored rhetoric, most crimes committed by these terrorists on our island have all â€˜been knownâ€™ to us in some capacity, but itâ€™s impossible to watch them all 24/7. 

There has to be a mechanism that when a citizen leaves their country to fight for or support in any capacity a terrorist cell or organisation, then that constitutes an act of treason, I donâ€™t believe the maximum sentence for treason has ever been changed, mainly because I canâ€™t think when there was a charge for treason last implemented, so that could be interesting, but for me, at the very least she is now a potential threat to our security, has acted in a treasonous way and she should seek sanctuary in Syria, she is an undesirable, I donâ€™t think even sentencing her to 10 years would achieve anything, if anything it could just make her even more hostile, and what of the child, her father is no shining light either! 

Easy option which would get the tree-huggers twitching, would be a drone strike, which she just happens to get caught up in!


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well first thing the death penalty as a deterrent doesnâ€™t work - in fact it would turn people into martyrs and allow them figures they could look up to.

She has given one interview so far and still within the reaches of ISIS so itâ€™s prob not the best idea to â€œdenounceâ€ considering where she is - sit her down with security authorities and social worker and then an assessment is made - show the UK isnâ€™t the â€œ horror nationâ€that itâ€™s portrayed by the radicals
		
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They see the whole of western society as a horror nation. They want to live under Islamic law. The soft touch approach definitely doesn't work, look how many attacks have been carried out in the UK over the last 20 years, it's a disgrace. Good people have died up and down the country because of people like her and to say she could be brought back and used as someone to say terrorism is bad is just a joke


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			They see the whole of western society as a horror nation. They want to live under Islamic law. The soft touch approach definitely doesn't work, look how many attacks have been carried out in the UK over the last 20 years, it's a disgrace. Good people have died up and down the country because of people like her and to say she could be brought back and used as someone to say terrorism is bad is just a joke
		
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What â€œtouchâ€ exactly do you think will â€œwork â€œ - the country went to war against radicals killing them in their droves by drones and air strikes , invaded their homes to remove their leaders - how did that work out ? 

Good people have been killed by terrorists for decades now and we have our justice system in place to deal with them


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## Parsaregood (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What â€œtouchâ€ exactly do you think will â€œwork â€œ - the country went to war against radicals killing them in their droves by drones and air strikes , invaded their homes to remove their leaders - how did that work out ?

Good people have been killed by terrorists for decades now and we have our justice system in place to deal with them
		
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They haven't gotten rid of the ones living within our society, so cracking down on that and monitoring family of known terrorist associates. More attention paid to people coming into the country and rigorous checks made on them would at least help


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well first thing the death penalty as a deterrent doesnâ€™t work - in fact it would turn people into martyrs and allow them figures they could look up to.

She has given one interview so far and still within the reaches of ISIS so itâ€™s prob not the best idea to â€œdenounceâ€ considering where she is - *sit her down with security authorities and social worker and then an assessment is made - show the UK isnâ€™t the â€œ horror nationâ€that itâ€™s portrayed by the radicals*

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Do you believe any country worth consideration believe the UK is a "*Horror Nation" *If you do you are sadly deluded and what countries give a toss what the radicals think about us.   

I can see you are trying hard to portray yourself as the shining light of liberal enlightenment but to be honest you are milking it a bit and making lt seem more like it's an attempt to promote self esteem.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			They haven't gotten rid of the ones living within our society, so cracking down on that and monitoring family of known terrorist associates. More attention paid to people coming into the country and rigorous checks made on them would at least help
		
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â€œGotten rid ofâ€ ?!

Do you mean caught , investigated ,charged and then punished by our justice system ?

I suspect our security services are doing the best they can with the constraints of their budget. Not one security service or border police will ever be 100% foolproof


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## Sweep (Feb 15, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			No, it was worse than that. I actually thought Maggie was doing a good job 

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It sounds like you were a sensible young chap. ðŸ˜€


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 15, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you believe any country worth consideration believe the UK is a "*Horror Nation" *If you do you are sadly deluded and what countries give a toss what the radicals think about us.  

I can see you are trying hard to portray yourself as the shining light of liberal enlightenment but to be honest you are milking it a bit and making lt seem more like it's an attempt to promote self esteem.
		
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The good old saint Phillip act. 
Look how PC I am everyoneðŸ™„


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Do you believe any country worth consideration believe the UK is a "*Horror Nation" *If you do you are sadly deluded and what countries give a toss what the radicals think about us.  

*I can see you are trying hard to portray yourself as the shining light of liberal enlightenment but to be honest you are milking it a bit and making lt seem more like it's an attempt to promote self esteem.*

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So resorting to the level of posts that you constantly complain about. What was it you call it â€œmandatory insultâ€ 

Please stick to the subject - this isnâ€™t the Brexit thread where you think you can bully peopleâ€™s opinions


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## pokerjoke (Feb 15, 2019)

Pin-seeker said:



			The good old saint Phillip act.
Look how PC I am everyoneðŸ™„
		
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What does the P stand for


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## Sweep (Feb 15, 2019)

I wonder how the families of those aid workers who were beheaded feel when they hear people say we should let her back in, sit down with her and her social worker, have a nice cup of tea and a chat and see if we can make her understand what a naughty girl she has been.
As all of us are lucky and have not been directly affected, maybe the acid test would be what we would rather say to the widows and families of one of those poor men. To their face, would you rather tell them we are going to let her back in and try to rehabilitate her back into society or tell them we are not going to let her anywhere near the UK and if that means breaking laws then so be it and if the law is wrong then we are going to change it?
I know what I would rather tell them. I am more interested in the welfare of the victims than the supporters of terrorists. I am amazed there are people who put the terrorists first, but there you go.
A governments first duty is to protect its people. They cannot let someone like this back in and claim they are fulfilling this duty.


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## Dibby (Feb 15, 2019)

Sweep said:



			I wonder how the families of those aid workers who were beheaded feel when they hear people say we should let her back in, sit down with her and her social worker, have a nice cup of tea and a chat and see if we can make her understand what a naughty girl she has been.
As all of us are lucky and have not been directly affected, maybe the acid test would be what we would rather say to the widows and families of one of those poor men. To their face, would you rather tell them we are going to let her back in and try to rehabilitate her back into society or tell them we are not going to let her anywhere near the UK and if that means breaking laws then so be it and if the law is wrong then we are going to change it?
I know what I would rather tell them. I am more interested in the welfare of the victims than the supporters of terrorists. I am amazed there are people who put the terrorists first, but there you go.
A governments first duty is to protect its people. They cannot let someone like this back in and claim they are fulfilling this duty.
		
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Look at the history of executions in the US, as these are covered in the press, it's very easy to get final statements of the executed and the reaction from the victim's relatives if they attended the execution. Unsurprisingly there is a whole host of feelings from the victim's families, from those glad of vengeance and feel some form of release from the execution, like you suggest you would, to those who feel sad that an additional human life has been lost, even though that person took away the life of a loved one.

Funny really isn't it, lots of different people have lots of different viewpoints. It's fine that we all have different opinions, but we can't start projecting our opinions on others, and assume they think like us. There isn't a one size fits all approach, so we can't say what the families of those beheaded would think, no doubt some would want vengeance and some would want no more killing, just like the families of murder victims.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So resorting to the level of posts that you constantly complain about. What was it you call it â€œmandatory insultâ€

Please stick to the subject - this isnâ€™t the Brexit thread where you think you can bully peopleâ€™s opinions
		
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I've never used 'mandatory' insult' i think you made that up.   I think you are the one 'bullying  peoples opinions' with your holier than thou sanctimonious moral high ground seeking.  Maybe you can accept others have different views to you on this subject and dont like you vilifying them with accusations they are racist and bigoted.


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## Sweep (Feb 15, 2019)

Dibby said:



			Look at the history of executions in the US, as these are covered in the press, it's very easy to get final statements of the executed and the reaction from the victim's relatives if they attended the execution. Unsurprisingly there is a whole host of feelings from the victim's families, from those glad of vengeance and feel some form of release from the execution, like you suggest you would, to those who feel sad that an additional human life has been lost, even though that person took away the life of a loved one.

Funny really isn't it, lots of different people have lots of different viewpoints. It's fine that we all have different opinions, but we can't start projecting our opinions on others, and assume they think like us. There isn't a one size fits all approach, so we can't say what the families of those beheaded would think, no doubt some would want vengeance and some would want no more killing, just like the families of murder victims.
		
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I agree, but we are not talking about executing this woman. Nor are we speculating on what the victims of ISIS families might think. My question was what would be rather tell them. To their face?
Itâ€™s easy being all nicey nicey on a golf forum and displaying our wonderful liberal attitude, but for many this is real. Very real in a way we cannot imagine. I am just saying I know what I would rather tell them. And I would rsther assure them that there are those of us who are still prepared to put the victims first.
Maybe we should be thinking of them rather than the plight of this woman? They do seem to have been forgotten in all this.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			I've never used 'mandatory' insult' i think you made that up.   I think you are the one 'bullying  peoples opinions' with your holier than thou sanctimonious moral high ground seeking.  Maybe you can accept others have different views to you on this subject and dont like you vilifying them with accusations they are racist and bigoted.
		
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SocketRocket said:



			You are a bit odd. In your post you mentioned Brexit and the border, are you now denying it with the mandatory insult to back it up.
		
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https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/t...le-50-the-phoenix.97927/page-261#post-1950238

I have posted nothing but my opinion on the situation and countered other peopleâ€™s opinion and just stuck to the subject - you have multiple times posted in the manner that you constantly complain about elsewhere - going on about my â€œself esteemâ€ ?! - not once called anyone a racist or a bigot. You are doing nothing but posting against the poster ( something else you have complained about ) and quite clearly posting cheap digs against other posters. Your posts on here have added nothing but to antagonise people and to attempt to deride others opinions. You can continue to do so but then you cannot complain when people replicate the same against yourself. I left the Brexit thread due to the way you talked to posters on there and didnâ€™t expect you to post anywhere else - time to avoid you on here as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

Sweep said:



*I agree, but we are not talking about executing this woman. *Nor are we speculating on what the victims of ISIS families might think. My question was what would be rather tell them. To their face?
Itâ€™s easy being all nicey nicey on a golf forum and displaying our wonderful liberal attitude, but for many this is real. Very real in a way we cannot imagine. I am just saying I know what I would rather tell them. And I would rsther assure them that there are those of us who are still prepared to put the victims first.
Maybe we should be thinking of them rather than the plight of this woman? They do seem to have been forgotten in all this.
		
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People have talked about executing the girl -

And the thread is about the girl so people are going to talk about her and what to do with her and what happens with her - there have been many threads through the years of the affects of ISIS on people and there families 

I donâ€™t believe one single person is putting this girl before the victims and to suggest people are putting the terrorists first is poor - the governments first objective is to carry out the laws and use the justice system , by doing that they arenâ€™t putting the needs of the terrorist first in any way shape or form


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 15, 2019)

Without commenting on whether she should or shouldn't be allowed to return I'm glad that it's not me that has to make that decision. I can just imagine the dinner table conversation a few months down the line if it all goes horribly wrong.....

"How was your day dear?"
"Not bad. I had a meeting with Colin from purchasing about whether we can afford to buy the more expensive paper for the photocopier. How was your day?"
"Not the best. Do you remember 6 months ago when I had to make the decision on whether that woman that left the UK to support ISIS in Syria wanted to come home and I said she didn't pose a significant risk to the public? Well it turns out that today she, and three of her friends, strapped on explosive vests and blew themselves up on the underground. I've had better days".

Now I'm not suggesting that this woman will do this but imagine being the person that had to make the decision that allowed her back in to the country if the above did happen.

EDIT - and that's without considering the witch hunt by the UK press looking for who is to blame.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Without commenting on whether she should or shouldn't be allowed to return I'm glad that it's not me that has to make that decision. I can just imagine the dinner table conversation a few months down the line if it all goes horribly wrong.....

"How was your day dear?"
"Not bad. I had a meeting with Colin from purchasing about whether we can afford to buy the more expensive paper for the photocopier. How was your day?"
"Not the best. Do you remember 6 months ago when I had to make the decision on whether that woman that left the UK to support ISIS in Syria wanted to come home and I said she didn't pose a significant risk to the public? Well it turns out that today she, and three of her friends, strapped on explosive vests and blew themselves up on the underground. I've had better days".

Now I'm not suggesting that this woman will do this but imagine being the person that had to make the decision that allowed her back in to the country if the above did happen.

EDIT - and that's without considering the witch hunt by the UK press looking for who is to blame.
		
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Itâ€™s just got to be a job when you end up going numb with no emotions - itâ€™s the same as a police officer that stops someone finds nothing and they go on and commit a horrific crime. 

They should be guilt free if they have done their job properly but as you say the witch hunt from the media etc wonâ€™t allow that to happened especially if itâ€™s high profile 

If this girl does manage to get to a British Embassy then I expect it will be new identity time and all down under the radar and then watched like a hawk for a long time. Itâ€™s a tough call for the person behind the desk


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s just got to be a job when you end up going numb with no emotions - itâ€™s the same as a police officer that stops someone finds nothing and they go on and commit a horrific crime.

They should be guilt free if they have done their job properly but as you say the witch hunt from the media etc wonâ€™t allow that to happened especially if itâ€™s high profile

If this girl does manage to get to a British Embassy then I expect it will be new identity time and all down under the radar and then watched like a hawk for a long time. Itâ€™s a tough call for the person behind the desk
		
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You donâ€™t want her back.
You suspect she may not of carried out any terrorist attack.
You expect if she manages to get to an Embassy you expect the Government to give her a new identity, hide that information from the public then watch her like a hawk.

Just how much is that going to cost and why shouldnâ€™t the public be aware.

Your doing a lot of speculation for someone who was sticking to facts over her legal status.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 15, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			You donâ€™t want her back.
You suspect she may not of carried out any terrorist attack.
You expect if she manages to get to an Embassy you expect the Government to give her a new identity, hide that information from the public then watch her like a hawk.

Just how much is that going to cost and why shouldnâ€™t the public be aware.

Your doing a lot of speculation for someone who was sticking to facts over her legal status.
		
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In fairness he also wants her to sit down and have a cup of tea with a social worker.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 15, 2019)

Sweep said:



*I wonder how the families of those aid workers who were beheaded feel when they hear people say we should let her back in, *sit down with her and her social worker, have a nice cup of tea and a chat and see if we can make her understand what a naughty girl she has been.
As all of us are lucky and have not been directly affected, maybe the acid test would be what we would rather say to the widows and families of one of those poor men. To their face, would you rather tell them we are going to let her back in and try to rehabilitate her back into society or tell them we are not going to let her anywhere near the UK and if that means breaking laws then so be it and if the law is wrong then we are going to change it?
I know what I would rather tell them. I am more interested in the welfare of the victims than the supporters of terrorists. I am amazed there are people who put the terrorists first, but there you go.
A governments first duty is to protect its people. They cannot let someone like this back in and claim they are fulfilling this duty.
		
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But you See Sweep there in lies the problem, she saw heads in the bin and didn't give a toss. Because those heads were from soldiers and fighters who would of done terrible things to the ISIS women if ISIS Had lost the war, she states.
No they were not, not all of them. Some of them beheaded were innocent aid workers who were trying to take aid and food into a war zone to stop children from dying. Children like your two children that died. He/they died trying to save your children. Yet she shows no remorse. Cuppa tea and a slice of Battenburg with a social worker not a cat in hells chance


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## Sweep (Feb 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			People have talked about executing the girl -

And the thread is about the girl so people are going to talk about her and what to do with her and what happens with her - there have been many threads through the years of the affects of ISIS on people and there families

I donâ€™t believe one single person is putting this girl before the victims and to suggest people are putting the terrorists first is poor - the governments first objective is to carry out the laws and use the justice system , by doing that they arenâ€™t putting the needs of the terrorist first in any way shape or form
		
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I havenâ€™t talked of executing her. And in a time of war does the government debate new laws or prioritise defending the nation? It defends the nation because that is a governments first duty, to defend and protect its people. They cannot do that and allow her back.
And you see, by advocating taking her back and rehabilitating her and spending all this money on her, I think you are putting her before the victims of ISIS and I donâ€™t think itâ€™s a poor thing to say. Letâ€™s not forget, itâ€™s not just her we are talking about. There are hundreds of them.
Why should we have to take the risk? Why should we put more innocent lives in danger? Why should we invest all this time and effort and money on someone who shows not a scrap of remorse? Itâ€™s not a bottomless pit. Would you rather spend the money on her or the NHS or social care or schools? For that matter, would you rather give the money to the victims families to try and help them rebuild their lives?

I guess I was hoping that by trying to put each of us in the position of having to explain, face to face, our position to those who have suffered terribly at the hands of this womanâ€™s organisation, it may make us think again. They are the ones who matter here. Not this woman and her ilk.


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## Chris P Bacon (Feb 16, 2019)

_We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.                                              _Perhaps if we unleashed these rough men and they visited violence then we could all have a good nights sleep instead of reading golf forums at daft oâ€™ clock in the morning.


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## Smiffy (Feb 16, 2019)

19 and knocked up 3 times????
Hastings is calling.


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## bobmac (Feb 16, 2019)

I stopped reading the posts on this thread once the repetition and the slagging off started.
Shame really.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			But you See Sweep there in lies the problem, she saw heads in the bin and didn't give a toss. Because those heads were from soldiers and fighters who would of done terrible things to the ISIS women if ISIS Had lost the war, she states.
No they were not, not all of them. Some of them beheaded were innocent aid workers who were trying to take aid and food into a war zone to stop children from dying. Children like your two children that died. He/they died trying to save your children. Yet she shows no remorse. *Cuppa tea and a slice of Battenburg with a social worker not a cat in hells chance*

Click to expand...

I expect the other posters to embelish posts to try and demean what they post but i didnt expect you to carry it on - really poor when someone clearly hasnt said something then posters try and twist things



Sweep said:



			I havenâ€™t talked of executing her. And in a time of war does the government debate new laws or prioritise defending the nation? It defends the nation because that is a governments first duty, to defend and protect its people. They cannot do that and allow her back.
		
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Im not sure you can call the country " in a time of war" - but there are already rules in place. I dont think you are in a position to "state" that allowing her to enter the country ( her right as a British National ) will not protect the country. 



			And you see, by advocating taking her back and rehabilitating her and spending all this money on her, I think you are putting her before the victims of ISIS and I donâ€™t think itâ€™s a poor thing to say. Letâ€™s not forget, itâ€™s not just her we are talking about. There are hundreds of them.
		
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Of course its a poor thing to suggest - not one person has put the terrorist first and its disrespectful to suggest - what people are suggesting is she is a British National and as such can return but then allow our Justice System to deal with her.



			Why should we have to take the risk? Why should we put more innocent lives in danger? Why should we invest all this time and effort and money on someone who shows not a scrap of remorse? Itâ€™s not a bottomless pit. Would you rather spend the money on her or the NHS or social care or schools? For that matter, would you rather give the money to the victims families to try and help them rebuild their lives?
		
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The country over the decades has rehabed murderers , child killers and terrorists - people have been given the chance to change and make amends - its part of the fabric of our society. Why would we stop ? Do people not get a chance to redeam themselves ? a chance to put things right and in this case give her unborn child a chance in the world



			I guess I was hoping that by trying to put each of us in the position of having to explain, face to face, our position to those who have suffered terribly at the hands of this womanâ€™s organisation, it may make us think again. They are the ones who matter here. Not this woman and her ilk.
		
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## Parsaregood (Feb 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the other posters to embelish posts to try and demean what they post but i didnt expect you to carry it on - really poor when someone clearly hasnt said something then posters try and twist things



Im not sure you can call the country " in a time of war" - but there are already rules in place. I dont think you are in a position to "state" that allowing her to enter the country ( her right as a British National ) will not protect the country.


Of course its a poor thing to suggest - not one person has put the terrorist first and its disrespectful to suggest - what people are suggesting is she is a British National and as such can return but then allow our Justice System to deal with her.


The country over the decades has rehabed murderers , child killers and terrorists - people have been given the chance to change and make amends - its part of the fabric of our society. Why would we stop ? Do people not get a chance to redeam themselves ? a chance to put things right and in this case give her unborn child a chance in the world
		
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Why not let her join your club and you can have tea, play a few rounds and you can play a part in her rehabilitation?


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## Dando (Feb 16, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Why not let her join your club and you can have tea, play a few rounds and you can play a part in her rehabilitation?
		
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I bet most of those saying let it back in are nimbyâ€™s


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## 2blue (Feb 16, 2019)

WOW...â€¦  just how did we not need that "Are you Right Wing" Thread of a month or so ago..... this is just so revealing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Why not let her join your club and you can have tea, play a few rounds and you can play a part in her rehabilitation?
		
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What exactly do you think that adds to the thread ? Itâ€™s just a snidey comment that doesnâ€™t enhance the debate - itâ€™s not an opinion is just a pathetic statement isnâ€™t it - something you would expect from a child


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## Parsaregood (Feb 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What exactly do you think that adds to the thread ? Itâ€™s just a snidey comment that doesnâ€™t enhance the debate - itâ€™s not an opinion is just a pathetic statement isnâ€™t it - something you would expect from a child
		
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That's the view you are literally taking on this, she was a child at the time of leaving, she didn't know what she was doing really, let's all give her a hug and tell her it will be ok. Until the next time


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			That's the view you are literally taking on this, she was a child at the time of leaving, she didn't know what she was doing really, *let's all give her a hug and tell her it will be ok.* Until the next time
		
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No I havenâ€™t- unless you can show something different 

My view has been the same throughout - she is a British National so right now by law she can enter the country and when she does itâ€™s then up to the authorities to decide what happens with her. The country is bound by international law and our own justice system.


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## Parsaregood (Feb 16, 2019)

You suggested sitting down with a social worker for a cup of tea


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 16, 2019)

Can we stop the petty bickering and point scoring please

Thank you


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			You suggested sitting down with a social worker for a cup of tea 

Click to expand...

No I didnâ€™t - other people have manipulated what I posted to suggest I said that but maybe you should actually go and read what I said.

I actually said IF she comes back she will need to sit down with the security services and a social worker ( because she is pregnant ) to assess her frame of mind and situation and then they can assess if she is a threat to society and indeed her unborn baby ( who is an innocent party ) and that post was in response to you as well.


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## Parsaregood (Feb 16, 2019)

Terrorism merits capital punishment, it is in the same boat as peadophiles, child killers etc. No sympathy or empathy should be given, her child is as much Dutch as anything. Also if born in Syria it can claim Syrian nationality.


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## Kellfire (Feb 16, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Terrorism merits capital punishment, it is in the same boat as peadofiles, child killers etc. No sympathy or empathy should be given, her child is as much Dutch as anything. Also if born in Syria it can claim Syrian nationality.
		
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Itâ€™s good that you have no power to affect government policy.


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## Parsaregood (Feb 16, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Itâ€™s good that you have no power to affect government policy.
		
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Really, so you don't think these crimes are worthy of that. That's great but plenty think these are the worst kind and pretty unforgivable


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## Kellfire (Feb 16, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Really, so you don't think these crimes are worthy of that. That's great but plenty think these are the worst kind and pretty unforgivable
		
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I donâ€™t think capital punishment is ever the right thing to do because clearly, if we want to call ourselves civilised, it isnâ€™t.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Really, so you don't think these crimes are worthy of that. That's great but plenty think these are the worst kind and pretty unforgivable
		
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The death penalty is an all together different subject and has been discussed many times 

It doesnâ€™t act as a deterrent , you canâ€™t take it back and innocent people have been killed by death penalty , itâ€™s not humane in any way , itâ€™s vengence not justice , I think the cost is more as well.

As a punishment more and more are stopping it - there is no place for it in a civilised country 

But as said itâ€™s a totally different discussion.


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## bobmac (Feb 16, 2019)

How can we call ourselves a civilised country if we can't even be civil to each other on a golf forum.


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## drdel (Feb 16, 2019)

So on the one hand the 'defenders' would allow her return because at 15/16 she was no a "child" yet politicians want to give 16 years old the vote.

She was mature enough to fund and make the trip there, if she can get to the UK then the law should take its course.


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## Sweep (Feb 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What exactly do you think that adds to the thread ? Itâ€™s just a snidey comment that doesnâ€™t enhance the debate - itâ€™s not an opinion is just a pathetic statement isnâ€™t it - something you would expect from a child
		
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So you are OK being rehabilitated as long as she goes nowhere near you?


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## Sweep (Feb 16, 2019)

bobmac said:



			How can we call ourselves a civilised country if we can't even be civil to each other on a golf forum.
		
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Câ€™mon Bob. Itâ€™s a debate. Itâ€™s an emotive subject and people have strong opinions. I respect the opinions of others and as far as I can see both sides have debated strongly.
A civilised country enshrines free speech.
None of this will make any difference to the outcome and it has nothing to do with us being a civilised country. The caliphate however...


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## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2019)

bobmac said:



			How can we call ourselves a civilised country if we can't even be civil to each other on a golf forum.
		
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It's the result from a Tory "divide and conquer" Government.


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## Sweep (Feb 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I expect the other posters to embelish posts to try and demean what they post but i didnt expect you to carry it on - really poor when someone clearly hasnt said something then posters try and twist things



Im not sure you can call the country " in a time of war" - but there are already rules in place. I dont think you are in a position to "state" that allowing her to enter the country ( her right as a British National ) will not protect the country.


Of course its a poor thing to suggest - not one person has put the terrorist first and its disrespectful to suggest - what people are suggesting is she is a British National and as such can return but then allow our Justice System to deal with her.


The country over the decades has rehabed murderers , child killers and terrorists - people have been given the chance to change and make amends - its part of the fabric of our society. Why would we stop ? Do people not get a chance to redeam themselves ? a chance to put things right and in this case give her unborn child a chance in the world
		
Click to expand...

I believe you did say â€œsit down with her social workerâ€.
As I am sure you know, I didnâ€™t say we were at war. I used war to demonstrate that a governments first duty is to protect its people.
Itâ€™s not a poor thing to suggest. I notice you avoided the question on where you would rather spend the money.
I am all for second chances, though how she can â€œ put things rightâ€ is difficult to imagine. However, this is not a typical case. As you know we are asking if she should be allowed back. You made it about being dealt with by the law and rehabilitation. If she manages to get back then we have no choice but let the law deal with her. But in the first instance I donâ€™t believe we should allow her the opportunity.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			It's the result from a Tory "divide and conquer" Government.
		
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ðŸ™„


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Sweep said:



			So you are OK being rehabilitated as long as she goes nowhere near you?
		
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I donâ€™t believe I said anything about her going â€œnowhere near meâ€ ? 



Sweep said:



			I believe you did say â€œsit down with her social workerâ€.
		
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I said if she was to return then she would sit down with security services and a social worker - thatâ€™s just a fact. Now certain posters twisted that to say I said she would sit down for tea and cake and a hug - really poor from those posters.




			As I am sure you know, I didnâ€™t say we were at war. I used war to demonstrate that a governments first duty is to protect its people.
Itâ€™s not a poor thing to suggest. I notice you avoided the question on where you would rather spend the money.
		
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You were suggesting that people put the terrorist first - yes that is a poor thing to say 
There are thousands of criminals I would rather they not spend my tax money on but they do - thatâ€™s our justice system , Iâ€™m not sure what the relevance is 



			I am all for second chances, though how she can â€œ put things rightâ€ is difficult to imagine. However, this is not a typical case. As you know we are asking if she should be allowed back. You made it about being dealt with by the law and rehabilitation. If she manages to get back then we have no choice but let the law deal with her. But in the first instance I donâ€™t believe we should allow her the opportunity.
		
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I donâ€™t know how she can put things right , we donâ€™t know exactly what she has done and can only speculate on that. 

I donâ€™t believe we should go out of our way to get her back to a British Embassy but I think someone will and then she will end up back here.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 16, 2019)

What will happen to her is down to whether or not she presents herself to a British consulate and we all know what will happen after that. *Whats being debated here is peoples opinions* on how she should be dealt with.

What we post on a Golf Forum will make no difference at all to the outcome but it gives people a chance to express their preferences.    It is amusing how some take the view that what we post will affect the lives and freedoms of others and change the law in some way. Its just opinions and challenging opinions, the type of debate you get in most spike bars throughout the world.  Keep knitting the Yogurt  ðŸ‘


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## bobmac (Feb 16, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Keep knitting the Yogurt  ðŸ‘
		
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I'm out


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## Swinglowandslow (Feb 16, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I donâ€™t think capital punishment is ever the right thing to do because clearly, if we want to call ourselves civilised, it isnâ€™t.
		
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Rubbish. It doesn't have to be like it was, i.e. All convicted of murder should be executed OR none who are convicted of murder should be.
Capital punishment should be available to English law so that the most heinous and certain offenders can be removed never to offend again.
As for miscarriages of justice, the Judge has material of the case never seen in open court , certainly not by the jury, and he will know if there is a smidgeon  or not of doubt. He then decides which sentence to impose.

But knowing that the worst that will happen to you for killing someone, is a nice comfy cell with amenities and ( unbelievably) better and quicker medical care than ordinary citizens, ( you don't wait three weeks in jail to see a doctor), is resulting in what we see now on city streets.
Killing after killing, going on and on.
All because of bleeding hearts worrying about the villains. And being
"civilised "


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 16, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			What will happen to her is down to whether or not she presents herself to a British consulate and we all know what will happen after that. *Whats being debated here is peoples opinions* on how she should be dealt with.

What we post on a Golf Forum will make no difference at all to the outcome but it gives people a chance to express their preferences.    It is amusing how some take the view that what we post will affect the lives and freedoms of others and change the law in some way. Its just opinions and challenging opinions, the type of debate you get in most spike bars throughout the world.  Keep knitting the Yogurt  ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Why ruin a decent post with those last 4 words? 

None of us on here are any better than the next one (no matter what we as individuals may think) and all are entitled to our opinions.

I have absolutely no interest in this female returning to the UK and would happily see her rot in hell, Iâ€™m also, imo, the complete opposite of your political opinion.

Sad the rest of your post is ignored and why you get reactions like Bobâ€™s.

Iâ€™m with Bob, Iâ€™m out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Rubbish. It doesn't have to be like it was, i.e. All convicted of murder should be executed OR none who are convicted of murder should be.
Capital punishment should be available to English law so that the most heinous and certain offenders can be removed never to offend again.
As for miscarriages of justice, the Judge has material of the case never seen in open court , certainly not by the jury, and he will know if there is a smidgeon  or not of doubt. He then decides which sentence to impose.
		
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People have been found guilty and have had the death penalty - they have then been found to be innocent , so innocent men have been wrongly killed by tbe authorities- itâ€™s part of the reason why it was removed 




			But knowing that the worst that will happen to you for killing someone, is a nice comfy cell with amenities and ( unbelievably) better and quicker medical care than ordinary citizens, ( you don't wait three weeks in jail to see a doctor), is resulting in what we see now on city streets.
Killing after killing, going on and on.
All because of bleeding hearts worrying about the villains. And being
"civilised "
		
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The death penalty is not a deterrent - countries still have the death penalty including plenty of US states - yet they still have murders and killings etc etc 

It doesnâ€™t work as a deterrent.


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## Old Skier (Feb 16, 2019)

Can I ask why she needs to sit down with a social worker.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 16, 2019)

Itâ€™s the kids I feel sorry for.

I mean why would anyone with a young family spends 2 days debating or arguing the toss about something they will never have a say in.

Have your say and move on.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 16, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I'm out
		
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Maybe you can come back when you find your sense of humour.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 16, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Why ruin a decent post with those last 4 words? 

None of us on here are any better than the next one (no matter what we as individuals may think) and all are entitled to our opinions.

I have absolutely no interest in this female returning to the UK and would happily see her rot in hell, Iâ€™m also, imo, the complete opposite of your political opinion.

Sad the rest of your post is ignored and why you get reactions like Bobâ€™s.

Iâ€™m with Bob, Iâ€™m out.
		
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If Bob or anyone can't see the last comment was a light hearted remark then they should get a sense of humour top up.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 16, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Can I ask why she needs to sit down with a social worker.
		
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Apparently because she's pregnant.


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## robinthehood (Feb 16, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Itâ€™s the kids I feel sorry for.

I mean why would anyone with a young family spends 2 days debating or arguing the toss about something they will never have a say in.

Have your say and move on.
		
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Post count


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## Tashyboy (Feb 16, 2019)

As much as it is a forum, and it will not change the law. It might well change people's opinions, if like me you sit on the fence at times and try to have an open mind. That said re changing the law. Someone has started one of those online petitions where you get 100,000 signatures and it is discussed in Parliment. The petition is along the lines of, if you leave the country to join ISIS, you are not allowed back in the UK. Will it change anything, I don't know, but it will be discussed. It may well be the law to allow her back, but it is an emotive subject, one in which some people think that she has made her bed and she should now lay in it.
Watch this space.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 16, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			As much as it is a forum, and it will not change the law. It might well change people's opinions, if like me you sit on the fence at times and try to have an open mind. That said re changing the law. Someone has started one of those online petitions where you get 100,000 signatures and it is discussed in Parliment. The petition is along the lines of, if you leave the country to join ISIS, you are not allowed back in the UK. Will it change anything, I don't know, but it will be discussed. It may well be the law to allow her back, but it is an emotive subject, one in which some people think that she has made her bed and she should now lay in it.
Watch this space.
		
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Unfortunately itâ€™s international law where you canâ€™t leave someone stateless - if she hadnâ€™t dual nationality then one could be removed etc - Justice Secretary confirms

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...ts-uk-cannot-make-is-bride-stateless-11638943

As with most of the petitions they will bring it up and then it will be down to the law -

We have terrorists in prison already , ones that have killed people - she will follow the same path of justice if she manages to get back because the government rightly arenâ€™t going to get her back.

Edit - the government have responded to the Petition

*
The Governmentâ€™s priority is to do everything we can to help keep our country safe, including managing the risk posed by those who have gone to fight in Syria and Iraq and may be linked to terrorist organisations.

UK nationals have the right to return to the country, but anyone who does return from taking part in the conflict in Syria or Iraq will be investigated by the police and prosecuted where there is evidence that they have committed criminal offences.

The Home Secretary has the power to remove or â€˜depriveâ€™ a British nationalâ€™s citizenship and stop them from returning to the UK if they hold or are eligible to hold another nationality and if he assesses that individualâ€™s presence in the UK is not conducive to the public good. This may only happen if the person would not be left stateless as a result. This power has been used against those who travelled to fight overseas. Non-UK nationals can be excluded from the country.

Where it is not possible to deprive an individual of their British nationality, a range of powers are available to protect national security.

There have already been several successful prosecutions for those who have returned from Syria. This includes the minimum of 40 years for Khalid Ali who was sentenced earlier this year for planning a terrorist attack in Westminster.

In addition to seeking prosecution of terrorism suspects we use a range of tools to manage the threat posed. We impose travel restrictions for individuals subject to Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures, and require those individuals who return to the UK subject to a Temporary Exclusion Order, to report to a police station regularly.

Home Office*


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## Swinglowandslow (Feb 16, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			People have been found guilty and have had the death penalty - they have then been found to be innocent , so innocent men have been wrongly killed by tbe authorities- itâ€™s part of the reason why it was removed



The death penalty is not a deterrent - countries still have the death penalty including plenty of US states - yet they still have murders and killings etc etc

It doesnâ€™t work as a deterrent.
		
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Of course it is a deterrent. 
Because although murders do continue in all countries, you are not able to deny the strong likelihood that those with the the death penalty would have had more murders had there been no severe , ultimate punishment.
No one can say, like you are saying, that no one has been deterred.

And lastly, the death penalty sure as hell stopped the ones executed from killing again. 
How would you explain to the loved ones of victims of those killers who have been released and then killed again?
Just say, " Ah, well, it's a risk Society has to take so that we can be called civilised "


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## Old Skier (Feb 16, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Apparently because she's pregnant.
		
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If she's nine months it will have popped out well before she gets near these shores.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 16, 2019)

drdel said:



			So on the one hand the 'defenders' would allow her return because at 15/16 she was no a "child" yet politicians want to give 16 years old the vote.

She was mature enough to fund and make the trip there, if she can get to the UK then the law should take its course.
		
Click to expand...

Re your first point I don't think anyone on here has accused politicians of being overly bright. 

Re the second, did she fund the trip herself or was she assisted by ISIS?


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## Kellfire (Feb 16, 2019)

Swinglowandslow said:



			Rubbish. It doesn't have to be like it was, i.e. All convicted of murder should be executed OR none who are convicted of murder should be.
Capital punishment should be available to English law so that the most heinous and certain offenders can be removed never to offend again.
As for miscarriages of justice, the Judge has material of the case never seen in open court , certainly not by the jury, and he will know if there is a smidgeon  or not of doubt. He then decides which sentence to impose.

But knowing that the worst that will happen to you for killing someone, is a nice comfy cell with amenities and ( unbelievably) better and quicker medical care than ordinary citizens, ( you don't wait three weeks in jail to see a doctor), is resulting in what we see now on city streets.
Killing after killing, going on and on.
All because of bleeding hearts worrying about the villains. And being
"civilised "
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m really sorry that youâ€™re so evil and twisted that you think inflicting suffering on others is ok. I only hope that your twisted views havenâ€™t caused harm to someone else.


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## Dando (Feb 16, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Iâ€™m really sorry that youâ€™re so evil and twisted that you think inflicting suffering on others is ok. I only hope that your twisted views havenâ€™t caused harm to someone else.
		
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Are you for real or are you taking the piss


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## Hobbit (Feb 16, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			Re your first point I don't think anyone on here has accused politicians of being overly bright.

Re the second, did she fund the trip herself or was she assisted by ISIS?
		
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The trip was funded by one of the 3 stealing jewellery and selling it. Not sure which on of the 3 did the stealing.


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## Dando (Feb 16, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			The trip was funded by one of the 3 stealing jewellery and selling it. Not sure which on of the 3 did the stealing.
		
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And she travelled on her sisters passport then crossed into Syria illegally


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## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			The trip was funded by one of the 3 stealing jewellery and selling it. Not sure which on of the 3 did the stealing.
		
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is this true or just media crap?


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## bluewolf (Feb 16, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			is this true or just media crap?
		
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Who cares. Lynch her................


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## Stuart_C (Feb 16, 2019)

bluewolf said:



			Who cares. Lynch her................
		
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Me, i like a bit of tom, not Elizabeth Duke, the real gear.

As for lynching her, before or after the birth?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 16, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Iâ€™m really sorry that youâ€™re so evil and twisted that you think inflicting suffering on others is ok. I only hope that your twisted views havenâ€™t caused harm to someone else.
		
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Was that directed to him or thr ISIS girl, or both.


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 18, 2019)

The Government really have a chance here to prove themselves to the country.   "No you are not coming back because you are part of a murderous bunch of terrorists" -    dare Corbyn and his apologists to side with them or face public humiliation.   If the population was polled, it would be about 98% in favour of keeping her out.

If legal reasons mean they can't then they have the fall back of having tried everything they could.  Then pursue her to the full extent of the law so she is locked up for years and years.   She will quickly be forgotten.

This is just media hype now.


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## Smiffy (Feb 18, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			If she's nine months it will have popped out well before she gets near these shores.
		
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But based on previous form she is likely to be pregnant again by the time she reaches Dover


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2019)

Smiffy said:



			But based on previous form she is likely to be pregnant again by the time she reaches Dover
		
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You really should try to hide your judgement slightly. Just a little bit.


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Was that directed to him or thr ISIS girl, or both.
		
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Him, as I doubt she reads this forum...


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## Smiffy (Feb 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			You really should try to hide your judgement slightly. Just a little bit.
		
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Why????


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## Dando (Feb 18, 2019)

Just seen an interview with the family lawyer. If I said what I really feel then the forum police would ban me forever!


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## Old Skier (Feb 18, 2019)

Its about time that the media stopped reporting on this case.  All the outlets seem to want to give this oxygen thief the notoriety she craves.


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## User62651 (Feb 18, 2019)

Re the kids she's been married 3 times as each husband died in turn, I doubt she had much say in that mothering side, female role in ISIS was subservient domesticity.

What she did have control over was believing propaganda and going out there the first place. She clearly has no regrets over that, said she was happy until recently when defeat has come.

What is a bit stupid on her behalf, if wanting to come back to the UK, is not showing some remorse (even if faked) and saying the right things to the press to try and get onside with people here, she's failing miserably at that and doesn't seem to see that, maybe she's a bit dim?

From her responses seems if another IS type caliphate came into being in the future she's be straight off back out there again. Her beliefs are as strong as ever.

Bad situation for UK, we will have to take her (and her innocent kid) back, then spend a fortune on policing/protection for her. Can't see any other 'realistic' course of action.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2019)

There was a solicitor on the radio yesterday and he explained over the past 12 months there have been over 100 British Citizens return from Syria and most have been charged and are in Prison right now on terrorist charges , the ones that arenâ€™t they didnâ€™t have any evidence to charge but some have had their Citizenship removed because they had dual nationality- he couldnâ€™t understand the way the media are making this a unique situation. It will end up the same way as the others plus her baby will prob go into foster care if they can prove she was a member of ISIS and committed a crime or she was just a housewife etc etc


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## oxymoron (Feb 18, 2019)

We keep on about her being a British national , how do we know she is ? She has no papers that i am aware of , stole a passport to get out there .As i see thing let her prove she is British first , then lets see how she wrangles her way back.I would give her absolutely no assistance at all even if she got to a consulate after all as i asked earlier in this post how do we actually know for certain she is a British National  ?

As for some posters calling others on her evil and twisted ,, thats out of order , everyone is entitled to an opinion there is no right or wrong on here just opinions so step back and breath a little.


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## patricks148 (Feb 18, 2019)

one thing about this confuses me??

 Wouldn't Syria want to have a say in what happens to members of ISIS, after all many are foreigners who travelled to their country to overthrow it and commit murder against it people.

Surely they would want to meet out some justice after all the crimes are committed against Syria..


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## Dibby (Feb 18, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



*Re the kids she's been married 3 times as each husband died in turn,* I doubt she had much say in that mothering side, female role in ISIS was subservient domesticity.

What she did have control over was believing propaganda and going out there the first place. She clearly has no regrets over that, said she was happy until recently when defeat has come.

What is a bit stupid on her behalf, if wanting to come back to the UK, is not showing some remorse (even if faked) and saying the right things to the press to try and get onside with people here, she's failing miserably at that and doesn't seem to see that, maybe she's a bit dim?

From her responses seems if another IS type caliphate came into being in the future she's be straight off back out there again. Her beliefs are as strong as ever.

Bad situation for UK, we will have to take her (and her innocent kid) back, then spend a fortune on policing/protection for her. Can't see any other 'realistic' course of action.
		
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Where did you hear that? All the media I have seen has only referred to a single Dutch husband.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			If she's nine months it will have popped out well before she gets near these shores.
		
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Sceptic peeeeeeeg. ðŸ˜‚


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

Dando said:



			Just seen an interview with the family lawyer. If I said what I really feel then the forum police would ban me forever!
		
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You wouldn't be ther only one, fragger would be modding an empty forum. Oh hang on don't make life easy for him ðŸ˜³


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## User62651 (Feb 18, 2019)

Dibby said:



			Where did you hear that? All the media I have seen has only referred to a single Dutch husband.
		
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Not sure but likely either MSN online (which gathers news articles from everywhere), BBC news online or Guardian online (it's free), they're the only news apps I have on my phone and tablet.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

Trying to talk about loadsa points.
Media, yup it's got a media frenzy now, but where is the happy medium. We need to know about people like her. It's the press that will bust a gut to mention it. But press and happy medium don't go Hand in hand.
As LP said, loads have come back and been sent down, so why her. I think her case is kinda Unique. Some have tried sneaking back in and have failed. Some have tried sneaking back in and there's no truth that they beheaded and murdered people. Someone did. How do you find that truth out.
Re if she manages to get to a consulate. As sure as eggs is eggs, someone somewhere as we speak is financing a deal to get her and baby Mo to a consulate.


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## Beezerk (Feb 18, 2019)

Dibby said:



			Where did you hear that? All the media I have seen has only referred to a single Dutch husband.
		
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A Dutch husband who is wanted on terrorism charges.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			A Dutch husband who is wanted on terrorism charges.
		
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Bet she thinks we should give him some sympathy as well ðŸ˜–


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## Dibby (Feb 18, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			A Dutch husband who is wanted on terrorism charges.
		
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Sure, that too, I believe he has already been found guilty in the Netherlands. 

However, my point was trying to ascertain the facts, in this case how many husbands does she have? 
I doubt the number of husbands is particularly material, and I don't think anyone here is suddenly going to think she is a saint, but we can at least base our opinions on the facts, rather than unverified hearsay.


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## bluewolf (Feb 18, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Trying to talk about loadsa points.
Media, yup it's got a media frenzy now, but where is the happy medium. We need to know about people like her. It's the press that will bust a gut to mention it. But press and happy medium don't go Hand in hand.
As LP said, loads have come back and been sent down, so why her. I think her case is kinda Unique. Some have tried sneaking back in and have failed. Some have tried sneaking back in and there's no truth that they beheaded and murdered people. Someone did. How do you find that truth out.
Re if she manages to get to a consulate. As sure as eggs is eggs, someone somewhere as we speak is financing a deal to get her and baby Mo to a consulate.
		
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Her story is being used by someone to generate publicity. She'll miraculously find her way back to the UK soon enough and the resultant uproar will be used to further widen existing divisions in society. 

We're being played like a Steinway piano by someone.


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## USER1999 (Feb 18, 2019)

Dibby said:



			Where did you hear that? All the media I have seen has only referred to a single Dutch husband.
		
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She had one husband, the Dutch one. There is an American Jihadi bride in similar circumstances who wants to go back to the US. She has had 3 husbands.


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## Leftie (Feb 18, 2019)

Let's have a referendum on it.



Pathetic Shark said:



			If the population was polled, it would be about 98% in favour of keeping her out.
		
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That's that sorted then - isn't it ??????????????


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## Old Skier (Feb 18, 2019)

Leftie said:



			Let's have a referendum on it.



Click to expand...

Only one, that won't work.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 18, 2019)

Personally I donâ€™t think the latest Sky interview with her should have been conducted.


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Personally I donâ€™t think the latest Sky interview with her should have been conducted.
		
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So we should have a one sided media that suits your opinion on the topic?

Yea that sounds like a fantastic way for us to proceed. :/


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## Dando (Feb 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Personally I donâ€™t think the latest Sky interview with her should have been conducted.
		
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you'll have the forum do-gooders on your back soon


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## Beezerk (Feb 18, 2019)

Dando said:



			you'll have the forum do-gooders on your back soon
		
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Too late ðŸ˜‚


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Personally I donâ€™t think the latest Sky interview with her should have been conducted.
		
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You're just as bad as her! Or worse!


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 18, 2019)

Lilyhawk said:



			You're just as bad as her! Or worse!
		
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In what way?
I donâ€™t recall running away to bear children to support a terrorist organisation, unless of course you know different?


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			In what way?
I donâ€™t recall running away to bear children to support a terrorist organisation, unless of course you know different?
		
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I forgot the smiley in my first post to indicate that I was in no way serious with that ridiculous statement. 

Here's two to make it up!


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 18, 2019)

Lilyhawk said:



			I forgot the smiley in my first post to indicate that I was in no way serious with that ridiculous statement. 

Here's two to make it up! 



Click to expand...

No probs m8, I said something equally as ridiculous early on this subject myself.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2019)

Apologies if it has already been said...

I'd, perhaps, be in favour of trialling a 'people's assembly' on this question...   Certainly wouldn't leave it in the hands of government or courts...


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Apologies if it has already been said...

I'd, perhaps, be in favour of trialling a 'people's assembly' on this question...   Certainly wouldn't leave it in the hands of government or courts...
		
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Another ridiculous idea. Letâ€™s ignore law and order in favour of a baying mob and lynch squads.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Apologies if it has already been said...

I'd, perhaps, be in favour of trialling a 'people's assembly' on this question...   Certainly wouldn't leave it in the hands of government or courts...
		
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Sorry but why ? The law is already there to deal with this issue - both international law and UK law 

People assembly ? What will that achieve - just giving power to lynch mobs - the public will sit on a jury it goes it court


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## Papas1982 (Feb 18, 2019)

For me, in regards to the op and SHOULD she be allowed back. I'd say no, but accept that from a legal perspective she can be.

That said, if she comes back he and then doesn't face any consequences which imo should be jail time and kid taken off her, then i think the law needs changing.


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## Dando (Feb 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Another ridiculous idea. Letâ€™s ignore law and order in favour of a baying mob and lynch squads.
		
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I guess the fact she ignored law and order and chose baying mobs, lynch squads and thinks beheading is normal behaviour is ok


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## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Another ridiculous idea. Letâ€™s ignore law and order in favour of a baying mob and lynch squads.
		
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Gosh... You have an overly low opinion of your fellow human beings...

We have a very diverse society here in the UK... You just make sure that diversity is honestly represented on the assembly...


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2019)

Dando said:



			I guess the fact she ignored law and order and chose baying mobs, lynch squads and thinks beheading is normal behaviour is ok
		
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All of those are irrelevant to your point.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Another ridiculous idea. Letâ€™s ignore law and order in favour of a baying mob and lynch squads.
		
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He never mentioned or intended to suggest we have a baying mob and lynch squad and you know it.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 18, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Re the kids she's been married 3 times as each husband died in turn, I doubt she had much say in that mothering side, female role in ISIS was subservient domesticity.

*What she did have control over was believing propaganda *and going out there the first place. She clearly has no regrets over that, said she was happy until recently when defeat has come.

What is a bit stupid on her behalf, if wanting to come back to the UK, is not showing some remorse (even if faked) and saying the right things to the press to try and get onside with people here, she's failing miserably at that and doesn't seem to see that, maybe she's a bit dim?

From her responses seems if another IS type caliphate came into being in the future she's be straight off back out there again. Her beliefs are as strong as ever.

Bad situation for UK, we will have to take her (and her innocent kid) back, then spend a fortune on policing/protection for her. Can't see any other 'realistic' course of action.
		
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With that in mind, how many of us are as guilty as her because we believed Tony Blair's propaganda regarding Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction?  We, who are surely much better placed than a 15 year old schoolgirl to make such a decision, fell for it hook line & sinker. and went to war on the basis of that propaganda.  Have we actually done anything much different to her?

Perhaps this lady is better placed than all of us to pass judgement;

https://news.sky.com/story/former-is-bride-urges-uk-to-show-shamima-begum-mercy-11640932


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## Kellfire (Feb 18, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			He never mentioned or intended to suggest we have a baying mob and lynch squad and you know it.
		
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Yep, sure. I bet his idea is to have the general public behave in exactly the way the judiciary would...

Sigh, I know you don't believe what you're saying but you have to back someone with the same opinion as you.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			With that in mind, how many of us are as guilty as her because we believed Tony Blair's propaganda regarding Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction?  We, who are surely much better placed than a 15 year old schoolgirl to make such a decision, fell for it hook line & sinker. and went to war on the basis of that propaganda.  Have we actually done anything much different to her?

Perhaps this lady is better placed than all of us to pass judgement;

https://news.sky.com/story/former-is-bride-urges-uk-to-show-shamima-begum-mercy-11640932

Click to expand...

She must have been capable of reasoned thought, people want 16 year olds to get the vote, they are free to marry at 16.  What did she think becoming a jihadi bride would entail, Im sure she didn't think she would be living in a bungalow with a nice garden while hubby popped out to work and came home each eving at six o clock for his tea. She must have understood that she would be prostituted to some vicious terrorist killer who would use her for his own pleasure and as a by product knock out a new generation of ISIS monsters, bit late now to plead its not turned out quite as she expected.

We will probably end up taking her back and spending very large amounts of money trying to deradicalise her but with the knowledge that she may well walk out one day with a bomb strapped to her of a knife in her hand.  If her child stays with her we will also have the same concerns for them, probably best they are seperated, however heartless that may seem we must consider the safety of the public above her at all costs.

My preference is if these people must come back we create a prison on somewhere like South Georgia  for them to serve out their very long sentences where they are not able to influence others.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Yep, sure. I bet his idea is to have the general public behave in exactly the way the judiciary would...

.
		
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I would expect the general public to be more than capable of behaving way above the capabilities of much of our judiciary...


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## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Yep, sure. I bet his idea is to have the general public behave in exactly the way the judiciary would...

Sigh, I know you don't believe what you're saying but you have to back someone with the same opinion as you.
		
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 Oh! I certainly do believe what I'm saying and dont need to back anyone, I posted what I did as your suggestion of a baying mob and lynch squad was wrong.


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## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Gosh... You have an overly low opinion of your fellow human beings...
		
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Seems to me that it's actually a fairly reasonable description of how 'society' has acted for centuries! The punishment of and attendance at executions involving 'Hung Drawn and Quartered, then Head displayed on a spike' for certain crimes is an example!

And especially with the influence of so much of 'the Press' these days!

It's certainly proper, imo, for 'the authorities' to apply Laws the validity of which can subsequently be 'tested' in Courts. Anything else smacks of Totalitarianism (or at least Authoritarianism) imo.


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## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Seems to me that it's actually a fairly reasonable description of how 'society' has acted for centuries! The punishment of and attendance at executions involving 'Hung Drawn and Quartered, then Head displayed on a spike' for certain crimes is an example!

And especially with the influence of so much of 'the Press' these days!

It's certainly proper, imo, for 'the authorities' to apply Laws the validity of which can subsequently be 'tested' in Courts. Anything else smacks of Totalitarianis (or at least Authoritarianism) imo.
		
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Think we've come a long way... In 1815 there were 288 ways the death penalty could be applied...


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## hovis (Feb 18, 2019)

This makes me laugh.  Girl joins terrorists organisation and thinks nothing of walking past a severed head in a bin but we should forgive her.   Liam neeson "says" for one week he wanted to kill a black man yet he should never work again and boycott his films


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2019)

hovis said:



			This makes me laugh.  Girl joins terrorists organisation and thinks nothing of walking past a severed head in a bin *but we should forgive her. *  Liam neeson "says" for one week he wanted to kill a black man yet he should never work again and boycott his films
		
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Have people actually been saying we should forgive ? 

I also think the severed head thing is being a bit overplayed - itâ€™s prob down to a lot of de sensitised and being numb possibly after seeing lots of horrors ?


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## hovis (Feb 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have people actually been saying we should forgive ?

I also think the severed head thing is being a bit overplayed - itâ€™s prob down to a lot of de sensitised and being numb possibly after seeing lots of horrors ?
		
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Yeh, loads of people saying that she can be rehabilitated into society and what av ya.

Personally I think not only will she be allowed back into the country but she'll get a lovely council house and maximum benefits for her child too.  All paid for by us lot of course


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 18, 2019)

And appear on the 2022 edition of Strictly Come Dancing on Ice.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2019)

hovis said:



*Yeh, loads of people saying that she can be rehabilitated into society and what av ya*.

Personally I think not only will she be allowed back into the country but she'll get a lovely council house and maximum benefits for her child too.  All paid for by us lot of course
		
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Thats what will happen if when they investigate her and no terrorist activity is proved etc then she will go back into society but thats not people saying forgive her etc

And as for all the benefits etc - she will only get that if they dont charge etc and she will join a long list of people that a lot think dont deserve them. 

She could just as easily end up rotting in jail.


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Think we've come a long way... In 1815 there were 288 ways the death penalty could be applied...
		
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You should not be watching The Chase at this time of night!!


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## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Think we've come a long way... In 1815 there were* 288* ways the death penalty could be applied...
		
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Are you sure it wasn't simply mis-reported as 'too gross'?


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 18, 2019)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-6718019/Dont-let-women-wedded-terror-come-home.html


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## Sweep (Feb 18, 2019)

Had to chuckle today. Devils advocate click bait human rights lawyer from Scotland on Sky News quickly back tracking on a claim he said he had sympathy with, that she was like a WW1 conscript returning with shell shock. I am not usually a fan of Sky News anchors but this guy put him right back in his box. Also seemed to have an issue that she may have been radicalised by males. Clearly thatâ€™s much worse than being radicalised by females ðŸ¤”. He also seemed very keen to tell us what the British people believed in, completely ignoring that fact that clearly the vast majority believe she shouldnâ€™t be allowed back.
Other than that he was saying more or less what LP has been saying all along. Which made me wonder if this bloke was only qualified to post on here or LP has missed his way as a human rights lawyer ðŸ˜€
Of course, both could be true.


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## Beezerk (Feb 18, 2019)

Not sure if it's been mentioned but her comments on the Manchester bombing aren't great, in fact utterly disgusting.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			Not sure if it's been mentioned but her comments on the Manchester bombing aren't great, in fact utterly disgusting.
		
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No it hasn't, don't think her PR person is doing a great job. Yet she can be re educated. Read a clip of her new legal eagle. He has history of representing ex ISIS brides. 
Gonna shut up before an infraction comes through the post.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have people actually been saying we should forgive ?

I also think the severed head thing is being a bit overplayed - itâ€™s prob down to a lot of de sensitised and being numb possibly after seeing lots of horrors ?
		
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Oh! thats OK then and I was thinking it was some poor persons head that had been cut off.  I guess you see one head off then youve seen them all ðŸ™„


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## bobmac (Feb 19, 2019)

She said she knew they beheaded people before she went out but was told it was ok because it was part of their religion. 

Interview


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## Dan2501 (Feb 19, 2019)

She was also seemingly relaxed over the brutality of IS rule, which included beheadings.

She said: "Yeah, I knew about those things and I was okay with it.

"From what I heard, Islamically that is all allowed so I was okay with it."
		
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What a stupid thing to say, hasn't exactly covered herself in light with the things she's said in the press.


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## bobmac (Feb 19, 2019)

bobmac said:



			She said she knew they beheaded people before she went out but was told it was ok because it was part of their religion.

Interview 

Click to expand...

If you watch the interview, a couple of things stand out for me.

A complete lack of interest in her new born son, she wouldn't even hold him.
Secondly, she enjoyed her time living in Syria right up until the end when her children died and she was starving.
No remorse whatsoever.
If she does return to the UK, it would be interesting to see if she stays with Islam


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## Sweep (Feb 19, 2019)

Something occurred to me this morning. Here we have this woman, making seemingly incendiary (no pun intended) statements, claiming she has no regrets, showing no remorse, unfazed by beheadings, allegedly naming her new born son after a murderer of Jews etc etc and saying that the UK should show her compassion and take her back. 
It strikes me this is all a bit too provocative. Surely someone who wanted to come back would have reigned it in a little? At least make some attempt to win hearts and minds?
Now, letâ€™s imagine what would be advantageous to an organisation like ISIS. I would imagine dividing opinion amongst non Muslims would be pretty high on their list. In that regard, this case fits the bill perfectly.
And yet today, I read she is ready to go to prison in the UK. Not a nice option but if you imagine the world she lives in, where suicide vests are commonplace, serving the caliphate with a stint behind bars in a UK prison, probably with others of a similar persuasion, is probably quite a soft option.
In Britain we do this everyday. Someone plays devils advocate on the TV, radio or in the press to stir up debate and provoke emotion. Think Jeremy Vine, Talk Radio, LBC, Sky News and BBC Press Previews. We even do it on here. An emotive case like this is perfect fodder for this type of coverage.
Maybe too perfect. 
Maybe made for it. 
Nothing stirs debate like the right â€œhang â€˜em and flog â€˜emâ€ brigade v liberal do-gooders and the media has lapped it up. An organisation like ISIS would have known they would. Everyday there is another angle. Everyday she has said something else. Everyday she causes more outrage.
Today, just as itâ€™s getting old news I read she says the Manchester bombing was justified. Shock! Horror! It all seems a little stage managed, designed to keep her in the news.
Remember, when these 3 schoolgirls ran off to Syria it was big news. A big coup for ISIS. Right from the start her story caused debate. Do we really think they are not going to exploit her now? Is anyone else wondering how she got her story out to the press? One young woman in a refugee camp of thousands? 
Maybe, just maybe, we are all being played like a fish. And maybe every one of us has swallowed it. Hook, line and sinker.


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## Dibby (Feb 19, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Something occurred to me this morning. Here we have this woman, making seemingly incendiary (no pun intended) statements, claiming she has no regrets, showing no remorse, unfazed by beheadings, allegedly naming her new born son after a murderer of Jews etc etc and saying that the UK should show her compassion and take her back.
It strikes me this is all a bit too provocative. Surely someone who wanted to come back would have reigned it in a little? At least make some attempt to win hearts and minds?
Now, letâ€™s imagine what would be advantageous to an organisation like ISIS. I would imagine dividing opinion amongst non Muslims would be pretty high on their list. In that regard, this case fits the bill perfectly.
And yet today, I read she is ready to go to prison in the UK. Not a nice option but if you imagine the world she lives in, where suicide vests are commonplace, serving the caliphate with a stint behind bars in a UK prison, probably with others of a similar persuasion, is probably quite a soft option.
In Britain we do this everyday. Someone plays devils advocate on the TV, radio or in the press to stir up debate and provoke emotion. Think Jeremy Vine, Talk Radio, LBC, Sky News and BBC Press Previews. We even do it on here. An emotive case like this is perfect fodder for this type of coverage.
Maybe too perfect.
Maybe made for it.
Nothing stirs debate like the right â€œhang â€˜em and flog â€˜emâ€ brigade v liberal do-gooders and the media has lapped it up. An organisation like ISIS would have known they would. Everyday there is another angle. Everyday she has said something else. Everyday she causes more outrage.
Today, just as itâ€™s getting old news I read she says the Manchester bombing was justified. Shock! Horror! It all seems a little stage managed, designed to keep her in the news.
Remember, when these 3 schoolgirls ran off to Syria it was big news. A big coup for ISIS. Right from the start her story caused debate. Do we really think they are not going to exploit her now? Is anyone else wondering how she got her story out to the press? One young woman in a refugee camp of thousands?
Maybe, just maybe, we are all being played like a fish. And maybe every one of us has swallowed it. Hook, line and sinker.
		
Click to expand...

I prefer to apply Occams razor in situations like this. 

_Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem_ 

Basically, don't use more than is necessary.

There doesn't need to be a complex reason, she is just keeping herself relevant.


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## IanM (Feb 19, 2019)

Nope. Still no.  

I wonder what you actually have to do before certain folk say "enough!!"


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## Fade and Die (Feb 19, 2019)

Two weeks of living back in Tower Hamlets and she'll be missing the Syrian refugee camp


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 19, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Two weeks of living back in Tower Hamlets and she'll be missing the Syrian refugee camp 

Click to expand...

That long? Sheâ€™s obviously made of stern stuff


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## USER1999 (Feb 19, 2019)

I just think she is more than a bit thick.


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## Doh (Feb 19, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I just think she is more than a bit thick.
		
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I agree Chris she is to dumb to know what deplomacy is.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			I just think she is more than a bit thick.
		
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Dont think a phycologist would write that but i agree 100%


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 19, 2019)

This news has of course reached Sweden as we also have our fair share of IS "activists" (yes, that's what the Swedish equivalent to BBC called them just the other day) that are now stuck in camps etc.

One Swedish Tory MP in particular is now in the line of fire from all liberal do-gooders as he called the IS-butchers "cry babies" on twitter now that they've lost their beloved caliphate and wants to come home to the safety and well fare payments, courtesy of the tax payers.

He is of course just as bad or worse than those who traveled thousands of miles to join a murderous sect and he's a massive threat to the Swedish debate climate according to these princesses sitting up in their ivory towers and spreading all of their goodness to the peasants who don't understand better.

Truly makes me sick.


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## IanM (Feb 19, 2019)

I am reading lots of bad stuff about Sweden on Internet. Mainstream Media in UK reports none of it.

Truth certainly somewhere in between, I wonder which end of the continuum it is?


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 19, 2019)

IanM said:



			I am reading lots of bad stuff about Sweden on Internet. Mainstream Media in UK reports none of it.

Truth certainly somewhere in between, I wonder which end of the continuum it is?
		
Click to expand...

Let's just say that it's not going in the right direction. If I am to be diplomatic.


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## UtopianAsh (Feb 19, 2019)

I do not care much for the woman, but I don't think any child should be raised in a warzone - with no exceptions.


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## spongebob59 (Feb 19, 2019)

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-19...evoked-by-british-government-itv-news-learns/


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 19, 2019)

UtopianAsh said:



			I do not care much for the woman, but I don't think any child should be raised in a warzone - with no exceptions.
		
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She should be sterilised after this one.


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## Imurg (Feb 19, 2019)

According to her lawyer, the Home Office have written to the family saying they intend to deprive her of her British Citizenship.....


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## Sweep (Feb 19, 2019)

Imurg said:



			According to her lawyer, the Home Office have written to the family saying they intend to deprive her of her British Citizenship.....
		
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Good. She is an enemy of Britain


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## williamalex1 (Feb 19, 2019)

The actual letter can be seen in the link shown in post 407


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 19, 2019)

Imurg said:



			According to her lawyer, the Home Office have written to the family saying they intend to deprive her of her British Citizenship.....
		
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Iâ€™m the midst of all doom and gloom finally some good news! 

But Iâ€™ll wait with the champagne for now...


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2019)

Imurg said:



			According to her lawyer, the Home Office have written to the family saying they intend to deprive her of her British Citizenship.....
		
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The Home Secretary said he was going to remove it - looks like he has down , letâ€™s hope they have done it legally because they are going to be very embarrassed if it needs to be overturned because they have left her stateless ( against international law ) - and why just this girl , why not all the others they allowed in. Are they using this as some good PR whilst all this Brexit stuff is going on ? And sending a letter ?! Doesnâ€™t seem right

It also goes against why the Justice Sec and Head of MI6 have said - is this all down to just the Home Sec making his own decision ?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2019)

Lilyhawk said:



			Let's just say that it's not going in the right direction. If I am to be diplomatic.
		
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Lily me man, my knowledge on Sweedish politics is up there with birdies on our 18th, non existant. What's going wrong in what is in my view a liberal country.


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## Sweep (Feb 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Home Secretary said he was going to remove it - looks like he has down , letâ€™s hope they have done it legally because they are going to be very embarrassed if it needs to be overturned because they have left her stateless ( against international law ) - and why just this girl , why not all the others they allowed in. Are they using this as some good PR whilst all this Brexit stuff is going on ? And sending a letter ?! Doesnâ€™t seem right

It also goes against why the Justice Sec and Head of MI6 have said - is this all down to just the Home Sec making his own decision ?
		
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It looks like they have done it legally. The letter outlines her right to appeal.
I donâ€™t think any government would be embarrassed about doing the right thing and suggesting they are doing it as a PR stunt is, to use your words, poor.
TBH it sounds like you are disappointed.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2019)

Did hear she was offered a house in Mansfield but she decided to stay in the camp in Syria.

That aside Phil, I think this case is a bit unique in the sense of the story behind the three girls going in the first place. Because she then decided she wanted to come  "home". When she had married into ISIS. Had three kids, no remorse etc etc. I think this case has rightly bogged off a few people. Being a "  Manc" I can assure you the emotions of what went of at The Arianne Grande concert are still very raw. Her comments in the North West have not done her case any good.. You are correct that many terrorists have come back to England, some have been arrested and others not. But is there case slightly differant that they were stood on British soil when arrested as against Missis Terrorist stated in Syria she wants to come home.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Did hear she was offered a house in Mansfield but she decided to stay in the camp in Syria.

That aside Phil, I think this case is a bit unique in the sense of the story behind the three girls going in the first place. Because she then decided she wanted to come  "home". When she had married into ISIS. Had three kids, no remorse etc etc. I think this case has rightly bogged off a few people. Being a "  Manc" I can assure you the emotions of what went of at The Arianne Grande concert are still very raw. Her comments in the North West have not done her case any good.. You are correct that many terrorists have come back to England, some have been arrested and others not. But is there case slightly differant that they were stood on British soil when arrested as against Missis Terrorist stated in Syria she wants to come home.
		
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I think this is all going to turn into a complete mess - just looking at the legal stand point and listening to a lawyer before a person is left stateless lots of things need to happen first - stuff that needs to happen with her face to face as well , she has to also have another nationality which she doesnâ€™t and they have to seem she is a severe threat to National Security ie immediate threat and the country under attack - thatâ€™s not happening from her.

It seems like after reading what you can see from the letter this is a decision made solely by the Home Secretary and against what both MI6 and the Justice department , it all seems very hurried and emotive based on the public opinion and itâ€™s very dangerous. Legally I donâ€™t believe the Home Secretary canâ€™t act like he just has done and this could be damaging and be counter productive.

The public will celebrate but imagine  the reaction when it gets over turned because itâ€™s not lawful


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Home Secretary said he was going to remove it - looks like he has down , letâ€™s hope they have done it legally because they are going to be very embarrassed if it needs to be overturned because they have left her stateless ( against international law ) - and why just this girl , why not all the others they allowed in. Are they using this as some good PR whilst all this Brexit stuff is going on ? And sending a letter ?! *Doesnâ€™t seem right*

It also goes against why the Justice Sec and Head of MI6 have said - is this all down to just the Home Sec making his own decision ?
		
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Yeah Phil out of all of this,
thatâ€™s the part that doesnâ€™t seem right ðŸ™„


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## Sweep (Feb 19, 2019)

Home Secretaries Letter: â€œIf you in touch with your daughter...â€
ðŸ˜ they should have just sent it via Sky News or any of the other media that have been falling over themselves to interview her this past week.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think this is all going to turn into a complete mess - just looking at the legal stand point and listening to a lawyer before a person is left stateless lots of things need to happen first - stuff that needs to happen with her face to face as well , she has to also have another nationality which she doesnâ€™t and they have to seem she is a severe threat to National Security ie immediate threat and the country under attack - thatâ€™s not happening from her.

It seems like after reading what you can see from the letter this is a decision made solely by the Home Secretary and against what both MI6 and the Justice department , it all seems very hurried and emotive based on the public opinion and itâ€™s very dangerous. Legally I donâ€™t believe the Home Secretary canâ€™t act like he just has done and this could be damaging and be counter productive.

The public will celebrate but image the reaction when it gets over turned because itâ€™s not lawful
		
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I doubt the government will have made it public in such a manner without being 110% certain they are correct in the process and the position is watertight. I can't see it being overturned anytime soon. You have been talking throughout (post #322 as an example) from some sort of position of absolute certainty. How do you know a deal hasn't been done with Syria or another country to take her as their national?


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## williamalex1 (Feb 19, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Did hear she was offered a house in Mansfield but she decided to stay in the camp in Syria.

That aside Phil, I think this case is a bit unique in the sense of the story behind the three girls going in the first place. Because she then decided she wanted to come  "home". When she had married into ISIS. Had three kids, no remorse etc etc. I think this case has rightly bogged off a few people. Being a "  Manc" I can assure you the emotions of what went of at The Arianne Grande concert are still very raw. Her comments in the North West have not done her case any good.. You are correct that many terrorists have come back to England, some have been arrested and others not. But is there case slightly differant that they were stood on British soil when arrested as against Missis Terrorist stated in Syria she wants to come home.
		
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There's a video doing the rounds on Facebook of a  female [ allegedly her ] cutting a man's throat while he's lying face down with his hands tied behind his back.


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## Sweep (Feb 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think this is all going to turn into a complete mess - just looking at the legal stand point and listening to a lawyer before a person is left stateless lots of things need to happen first - stuff that needs to happen with her face to face as well , she has to also have another nationality which she doesnâ€™t and they have to seem she is a severe threat to National Security ie immediate threat and the country under attack - thatâ€™s not happening from her.

It seems like after reading what you can see from the letter this is a decision made solely by the Home Secretary and against what both MI6 and the Justice department , it all seems very hurried and emotive based on the public opinion and itâ€™s very dangerous. Legally I donâ€™t believe the Home Secretary canâ€™t act like he just has done and this could be damaging and be counter productive.

The public will celebrate but imagine  the reaction when it gets over turned because itâ€™s not lawful
		
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Signed Disappointed of Leighton Buzzard ðŸ˜€
When I said you should have been a human rights lawyer I was joking. I didnâ€™t realise you actually were one.ðŸ˜€
Not to worry. If her British Passport is no more, I am sure she can claim a Dutch one through hubby.

As I said, it all seems like a publicity stunt to me. Maybe itâ€™s backfired. If she had kept quiet she would probably have been able to walk back in like the others.
Thatâ€™s is, if she ever wanted to come back at all.


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## Imurg (Feb 19, 2019)

Seems she has dual British/Bangladesh citizenship..........


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 19, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Lily me man, my knowledge on Sweedish politics is up there with birdies on our 18th, non existant. What's going wrong in what is in my view a liberal country.
		
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â€œThe road to hell is paved with good intentionsâ€ is a saying that fits in well to describe Sweden and its politics.


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## Fade and Die (Feb 19, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Home Secretaries Letter: â€œIf you in touch with your daughter...â€
ðŸ˜ they should have just sent it via Sky News or any of the other media that have been falling over themselves to interview her this past week.
		
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True, and my money is on one of these snidey companies bundling her and the baby into the back of the 4x4 and dropping her off at the Turkish/Lebanese embassy. Just to keep the story going.


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## Lilyhawk (Feb 19, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Seems she has dual British/Bangladesh citizenship..........

Click to expand...

Oh no! Isnâ€™t that  real shame should that be correct... ðŸ˜”ðŸ˜”

ðŸ¤ªðŸ¤ªðŸ¤ª


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2019)

williamalex1 said:



			There's a video doing the rounds on Facebook of a  female [ allegedly her ] cutting a man's throat while he's lying face down with his hands tied behind his back.
		
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Hypothetically and I don't know the answer to this, if said video is of her. Wonder what the chances are of someone in the British government seen this and it has helped make there decision/ forced there hand. Hypothetically and again I don't know the answer to this. If the government had Said " here's your first class ticket to Blighty and a fast track through Heathrow so you don't have to queue for three hours ". They gonna look as thick as her if this video came to light.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 19, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Seems she has dual British/Bangladesh citizenship..........

Click to expand...

And that is how you get Tashyboy to buy you a pint, make him smile. ðŸ‘


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## Hobbit (Feb 19, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think this is all going to turn into a complete mess - just looking at the legal stand point and listening to a lawyer before a person is left stateless lots of things need to happen first - stuff that needs to happen with her face to face as well , she has to also have another nationality which she doesnâ€™t and they have to seem she is a severe threat to National Security ie immediate threat and the country under attack - thatâ€™s not happening from her.

It seems like after reading what you can see from the letter this is a decision made solely by the Home Secretary and against what both MI6 and the Justice department , it all seems very hurried and emotive based on the public opinion and itâ€™s very dangerous. Legally I donâ€™t believe the Home Secretary canâ€™t act like he just has done and this could be damaging and be counter productive.

The public will celebrate but imagine  the reaction when it gets over turned because itâ€™s not lawful
		
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You might want to have a look at how someone becomes a Bangladeshi citizen. Looks like it is by birth, irrespective of where they are born, providing either both parents or the mother is Bangladeshi. Unless she has, previously, renounced it. 

No doubt to there's still some mileage in it but its now up to her to appeal.


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## road2ruin (Feb 19, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Hypothetically and I don't know the answer to this, if said video is of her. Wonder what the chances are of someone in the British government seen this and it has helped make there decision/ forced there hand. Hypothetically and again I don't know the answer to this. If the government had Said " here's your first class ticket to Blighty and a fast track through Heathrow so you don't have to queue for three hours ". They gonna look as thick as her if this video came to light.
		
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Read a report on this doing the rounds today, apparently for everything else she may or may not have done itâ€™s been proved that the person in the video was not her.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 19, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			You might want to have a look at how someone becomes a Bangladeshi citizen. Looks like it is by birth, irrespective of where they are born, providing either both parents or the mother is Bangladeshi. Unless she has, previously, renounced it.

No doubt to there's still some mileage in it but its now up to her to appeal.
		
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That post was done before anything was said or heard about her possibly being a Bangladeshi Citizen - if she is then job done , she can go there and they can deal with her situation. No doubt there will be an appeal but she wonâ€™t have been left stateless ( if she does indeed have citizenship with another country ) - lets just hope they have done the ground work

Reading this article - seems like this is going to run yet , family lawyer says she has no dual nationality and the move will leave her stateless but Home Office believes she can be because the possibility her mother has Bangladesh Citizenship 


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-shamima-begum-to-have-uk-citizenship-revoked


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## Boabski (Feb 19, 2019)

Nope !!!


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## Dibby (Feb 20, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Seems she has dual British/Bangladesh citizenship..........

Click to expand...

Was wondering about this, and whether she may also have qualified for Dutch citizenship through her husband, which would give multiple avenues to removing British nationality.

People also shouldn't confuse having citizenship with exercising it. There are many people who qualify for multiple citizenships, but through lack of desire or awareness don't exercise more than 1 citizenship, but this does not mean they are not a citizen. You don't have to have a passport or official document from a nation to be a citizen of that nation, these things just help you to prove that citizenship.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 20, 2019)

As it would appear that she wasnâ€™t aware that she had/has Bangladeshi citizenship, has apparently never been there and clearly has more connection to the UK, what is to stop the Bangladeshi authorities revoking her Bangladeshi citizenship and leaving her a UK citizen?


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## USER1999 (Feb 20, 2019)

Ok, why would Bangladesh want her, she has never been there. They will just love us trying to foist one of our own problems on to them.

If she ends up being dutch, she needs to get a wriggle on, and get here before Brexit, and then she can stay here anyway.


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## Dibby (Feb 20, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Ok, why would Bangladesh want her, she has never been there. They will just love us trying to foist one of our own problems on to them.

If she ends up being dutch, she needs to get a wriggle on, and get here before Brexit, and then she can stay here anyway.
		
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It's not about wanting her, it's about legal requirements. If Bangladesh really were that concerned though, they could have taken action to remove her citizenship before the UK did, forcing the UK's hand.
Although it's a possibility, realistically given that her Dutch husband was already wanted, it's unlikely she has Dutch citizenship. However, even if she did, the UK doesn't have to admit her.

What is an interesting question is when was the citizenship revoked? The letter is dated 19th, but what date are the official papers that would be enclosed? Are they before or after her sons birth? Is this timing intentional, to give the kid citizenship, but not the mother?


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## Dibby (Feb 20, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			As it would appear that she wasnâ€™t aware that she had/has Bangladeshi citizenship, has apparently never been there and clearly has more connection to the UK, what is to stop the Bangladeshi authorities revoking her Bangladeshi citizenship and leaving her a UK citizen?
		
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They would now have an issue doing that because unless she has some form of Dutch nationality through her husband (possible but unlikely) that would leave her stateless. However, if they had acted before the UK, then the situation would be reversed.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			As it would appear that she wasnâ€™t aware that she had/has Bangladeshi citizenship, has apparently never been there and clearly has more connection to the UK, what is to stop the Bangladeshi authorities revoking her Bangladeshi citizenship and leaving her a UK citizen?
		
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Pre-emptive strike. At the moment she could theoretically be a citizen of both. The UK can not leave her stateless so they remove her British citizenship leaving her with the Bangladeshi option. She may not want it but that covers the UK legally. Bangaladeshi law may allow her to become stateless so they may not offer her citizenship but at that point it wont matter to the UK govt, it has covered itself, it got in first.

What makes me uncomfortable about the above is that we are looking to pass this onto Bangladesh. Not really their issue, she was born and raised here, but we are dumping our problem onto them. They are meant to be our friends. Also, if she does go there are Bangladesh equipped to deal with her or can she move in and spread hate? It feels a bit of a hollow victory if things pan out as it looks.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			As it would appear that she wasnâ€™t aware that she had/has Bangladeshi citizenship, has apparently never been there and clearly has more connection to the UK, what is to stop the Bangladeshi authorities revoking her Bangladeshi citizenship and leaving her a UK citizen?
		
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But having a dual citizenship opens lots of doors, ie I am a UK citizen and can marry a Bangladeshi and bring him
 " home". A situation I am sure the Bangladeshi government is happy with. A situation that the Bangladeshi government knows that goes off and allows. Why else would they let someone who has never even seen Bangladesh on a map never mind set foot on there soil allow a person to be a Bangladeshi. Especially when as is Custom in parts of Bangladesh, you have no say on who a Bangladeshi woman is marrying, eg a Bangladeshi man. Would imagine there bogged off coz she married a nice western man.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Pre-emptive strike. At the moment she could theoretically be a citizen of both. The UK can not leave her stateless so they remove her British citizenship leaving her with the Bangladeshi option. She may not want it but that covers the UK legally. Bangaladeshi law may allow her to become stateless so they may not offer her citizenship but at that point it wont matter to the UK govt, it has covered itself, it got in first.

What makes me uncomfortable about the above is that we are looking to pass this onto Bangladesh. Not really their issue, she was born and raised here, but we are dumping our problem onto them. They are meant to be our friends. Also, if she does go there are Bangladesh equipped to deal with her or can she move in and spread hate? It feels a bit of a hollow victory if things pan out as it looks.
		
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There are plenty of kindred folk in Bangladesh.


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 20, 2019)

Dibby said:



			What is an interesting question is when was the citizenship revoked? The letter is dated 19th, but what date are the official papers that would be enclosed? Are they before or after her sons birth? Is this timing intentional, to give the kid citizenship, but not the mother?
		
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Apparently under Dutch law, children take the nationality of the father, ergo this child is Dutch.


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## woody69 (Feb 20, 2019)

This feels like political manoeuvring to me on the part of Javid considering the Tory leadership elections that will be happening at some point in the near future and this Twitter thread with the thoughts of a Barrister backs that up - 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098138818954317824, particularly the bit where he says, "Javid can argue, as many a Home Secretary has (including our current PM) that he made the right call and if he loses in the court itâ€™s: - the judgeâ€™s fault. - even worse, the Human Rights Actâ€™s/European Convention on Human Rights fault. Rule of law? Pah. "


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## Dibby (Feb 20, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Apparently under Dutch law, children take the nationality of the father, ergo this child is Dutch.
		
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So the child likely has multiple nationalities - Dutch, British (depending on when her nationality was revoked) and Bangladeshi. That could be potentially a lot of legal wrangling to sort out if both grandparents want control of the child.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

Dibby said:



			So the child likely has multiple nationalities - Dutch, British (depending on when her nationality was revoked) and Bangladeshi. That could be potentially a lot of legal wrangling to sort out if both grandparents want control of the child.
		
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Why can't she take the child to Bangladesh with her.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2019)

Surely this muddys the waters https://news.sky.com/story/is-teen-...british-citizen-suggests-sajid-javid-11642889

I understand how a baby born to British citizen would get that right but having revoked the mothers British citizenship would that still apply?


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## williamalex1 (Feb 20, 2019)

Surely the government learned something from the Abu Hamza fiasco.


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## bobmac (Feb 20, 2019)

The one good thing about this is the baby will have no memories about all this


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## woody69 (Feb 20, 2019)

williamalex1 said:



			Surely the government learned something from the Abu Hamza fiasco.
		
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Completely different circumstances and unrelated. What would you expect them to learn?


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## Bunkermagnet (Feb 20, 2019)

bobmac said:



			The one good thing about this is the baby will have no memories about all this
		
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Don't you mean every opportunity of being fed lies and stories?


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## williamalex1 (Feb 20, 2019)

woody69 said:



			Completely different circumstances and unrelated. What would you expect them to learn?
		
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Didn't take them forever to get him out and cost a fortune in legal stuff if i remember correctly.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2019)

williamalex1 said:



			Didn't take them forever to get him out and cost a fortune in legal stuff if i remember correctly.
		
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Correct. I think it's a decent comparison. A politician making a populist decision but without checking the legality of it first, or at best gambling on the legality of it. Wanting to do something and legally being able to do something are not always the same. Home Secretaries should know this and be a little more cautious.


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## Hobbit (Feb 20, 2019)

Bangladesh have said no she isn't.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2019)

Is anyone really surprised 

You would have thought before making sure a crucial decision they would make sure of everything but it appears the Home Secretary has made an emotional reactionary decision 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid


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## Hobbit (Feb 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is anyone really surprised

You would have thought before making sure a crucial decision they would make sure of everything but it appears the Home Secretary has made an emotional reactionary decision

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid

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Not surprised by it. Interested to see how this plays out. 

The Bangladesh's own Gov website states that a person has Bangladeshi status by birthright. They don't have to apply for it. One thing's for sure, it'll certainly make Bangladesh beef up their rules.


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## Foxholer (Feb 20, 2019)

Re-arrange the following....

brewery! couldn't in Government organize This p-up a!

PS. I've done it - twice!


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## larmen (Feb 20, 2019)

For anyone who speaks German, Bild.de (German Sun/ Daily mail) is running a story about a German woman that has returned from isis. Going on for a few days now, but it is behind a paywall, I think.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Bangladesh have said no she isn't.
		
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I don't think the British government had to say she had Bangladeshi citizenship, it just has to show she could have it. They are right. Her baby was born in Syria yet it is classed as British due to her mother. She is British but could be Bangladeshi due to her parents. Very similar to the many Brits who are now deciding to obtain Irish passports despite never having been there. It's partly a theoretical issue.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Not surprised by it. Interested to see how this plays out.

The Bangladesh's own Gov website states that a person has Bangladeshi status by birthright. They don't have to apply for it. One thing's for sure, it'll certainly make Bangladesh beef up their rules.
		
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It all seemed very rushed through by the Home Office and quite clearly seemed a decision made by one person on the back of some emotional uprising- it seemed a decision looking for good PR but itâ€™s quite clearly a very poor ill thought out move from the Home Office that looks like itâ€™s back firing and just heaping more embarrassment on a government that is already losing the trust of the public.

 Itâ€™s just poor - the Justice Sec and MI6 even said itâ€™s not something that could be done and now the laughing stock just increases. They have prob made the young girls stance even stronger now


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## Hobbit (Feb 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It all seemed very rushed through by the Home Office and quite clearly seemed a decision made by one person on the back of some emotional uprising- it seemed a decision looking for good PR but itâ€™s quite clearly a very poor ill thought out move from the Home Office that looks like itâ€™s back firing and just heaping more embarrassment on a government that is already losing the trust of the public.

Itâ€™s just poor - the Justice Sec and MI6 even said itâ€™s not something that could be done and now the laughing stock just increases. They have prob made the young girls stance even stronger now
		
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Really? You know it was rushed? You were party to the discussions between the various barristers, the Attorney General and the Home Office/Secretary? You think people at that level make emotional decisions? Its a PR exercise? Sounds like your banging a drum rather than being measured and considerate.

Lets dial it back a little and ask a few questions before jumping to (absurd?) conclusions. Which will prove difficult as we only have a very rudimentary idea of the facts.

At first "we knew" she is(was?) a UK citizen. And "we knew" International law clearly states that someone can't be made stateless from one country if she doesn't have dual citizenship. Guess what? That's all "we know."

It would appear, so we've been told, that she has a Bangladeshi mother. BTW, Its not been denied. Bangladeshi law appears to say that if you have a Bangladeshi parent you have Bangladeshi citizenship due to Jus Sanguinis - their words on their website, i.e. by birthright. Apparently, that birthright extends till they are 21 years of age, at which time they have to formally apply for it, if they don't live in Bangladesh. As an aside, that's to protect their birthright until they are of an age to make their own decision.

With the resources at the disposal of the Home Office, and no doubt from investigations made when she first left, they will know that she has Bangladeshi parents. They will know what rights a child of Bangladeshi parents has in terms of citizenship, both in the UK and in Bangladesh.

This isn't a difficult equation to put together based on what we've been told. And if the circumstances surrounding Bangladeshi citizenship are true, what has the Home Sec got wrong?

Where this may unravel is the precedent already set by accepting so many IS supporters back into the country, no doubt some of which have dual citizenship. And lets not forget, the Home Office has already had its fingers burned by revoking citizenship for 2 returning IS supporters only to be told by the International court they had it wrong. Do you think they'll make the same mistake twice? If you do, can you give me the lottery numbers...

She's also spoken of acquiring Dutch citizenship. To do that she needs to have been married to her Dutch husband for more than 3 years(tick) AND resided in the Netherlands for 3 years uninterrupted(cross). She doesn't qualify on the second count.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Really? You know it was rushed? You were party to the discussions between the various barristers, the Attorney General and the Home Office/Secretary? You think people at that level make emotional decisions? Its a PR exercise? Sounds like your banging a drum rather than being measured and considerate.
		
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Maybe actually read what I said - â€œIt *seemed* rushed




			Lets dial it back a little and ask a few questions before jumping to (absurd?) conclusions. Which will prove difficult as we only have a very rudimentary idea of the facts.

At first "we knew" she is(was?) a UK citizen. And "we knew" International law clearly states that someone can't be made stateless from one country if she doesn't have dual citizenship. Guess what? That's all "we know."

It would appear, so we've been told, that she has a Bangladeshi mother. BTW, Its not been denied. Bangladeshi law appears to say that if you have a Bangladeshi parent you have Bangladeshi citizenship due to Jus Sanguinis - their words on their website, i.e. by birthright. Apparently, that birthright extends till they are 21 years of age, at which time they have to formally apply for it, if they don't live in Bangladesh. As an aside, that's to protect their birthright until they are of an age to make their own decision.

With the resources at the disposal of the Home Office, and no doubt from investigations made when she first left, they will know that she has Bangladeshi parents. They will know what rights a child of Bangladeshi parents has in terms of citizenship, both in the UK and in Bangladesh.

This isn't a difficult equation to put together based on what we've been told. And if the circumstances surrounding Bangladeshi citizenship are true, what has the Home Sec got wrong?

Where this may unravel is the precedent already set by accepting so many IS supporters back into the country, no doubt some of which have dual citizenship. And lets not forget, the Home Office has already had its fingers burned by revoking citizenship for 2 returning IS supporters only to be told by the International court they had it wrong. Do you think they'll make the same mistake twice? If you do, can you give me the lottery numbers...

She's also spoken of acquiring Dutch citizenship. To do that she needs to have been married to her Dutch husband for more than 3 years(tick) AND resided in the Netherlands for 3 years uninterrupted(cross). She doesn't qualify on the second count.
		
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I donâ€™t think any of that changes my point 

Simple solution - Home Office to Bangladesh Government - â€œ can we Check that this girl is actually a Bangladesh Citizen â€œ . Nope it â€œappearsâ€ the Home Office have gone stumbling ahead without completing checking things and I believe itâ€™s not the first time they have done something like this.

The Home Secretary stated he would remove her UK Citizenship- other people within the government and security services warned that it couldnâ€™t be done easily - Home Office went and did it anyway 

Do I believe the Home Office would make a mistake again - yep most certainly, and I expect they will continue to make mistakes , seems itâ€™s just part and parcel of the current government 

Itâ€™s seems from what the Bangladesh Government have said the Home Office clearly didnâ€™t investigate enough or knew enough to make the decision they did and right now the embarrassment is squarely with the UK


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## Hobbit (Feb 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe actually read what I said - â€œIt *seemed* rushed



I donâ€™t think any of that changes my point

Simple solution - Home Office to Bangladesh Government - â€œ can we Check that this girl is actually a Bangladesh Citizen â€œ . Nope it â€œappearsâ€ the Home Office have gone stumbling ahead without completing checking things and I believe itâ€™s not the first time they have done something like this.

The Home Secretary stated he would remove her UK Citizenship- other people within the government and security services warned that it couldnâ€™t be done easily - Home Office went and did it anyway

Do I believe the Home Office would make a mistake again - yep most certainly, and I expect they will continue to make mistakes , seems itâ€™s just part and parcel of the current government

Itâ€™s seems from what the Bangladesh Government have said the Home Office clearly didnâ€™t investigate enough or knew enough to make the decision they did and right now the embarrassment is squarely with the UK
		
Click to expand...

I saw the "seemed." Did you not see the question mark and the end of "you know it was rushed?"

The Home Office doesn't have to check with the Bangladeshi Govt. Her parents, and their solicitor, haven't denied they are Bangladeshi. And, as I said, the Bangladeshi govt website makes it pretty clear. And the reason the previous 2 Bangladeshi IS supporters got the UK citizenship reinstated is they were over 21 when the UK tried to revoke their citizenship.

As for the Home Office will make mistakes again. I prefer to deal in facts, not suppositions, that support an argument.

You believe the UK govt has been embarrassed by their (supposed) haste and lack of due diligence. I don't. Although I do believe there is a possibility it may unravel due to a precedent already set.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I saw the "seemed." Did you not see the question mark and the end of "you know it was rushed?"

The Home Office doesn't have to check with the Bangladeshi Govt. Her parents, and their solicitor, haven't denied they are Bangladeshi. And, as I said, the Bangladeshi govt website makes it pretty clear. And the reason the previous 2 Bangladeshi IS supporters got the UK citizenship reinstated is they were over 21 when the UK tried to revoke their citizenship.

As for the Home Office will make mistakes again. I prefer to deal in facts, not suppositions, that support an argument.

You believe the UK govt has been embarrassed by their (supposed) haste and lack of due diligence. I don't. Although I do believe there is a possibility it may unravel due to a precedent already set.
		
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You would have thought in such a high profile case that our own Home Office would make sure 100% on everything before acting - if they â€œbelievedâ€ she was a Bangladesh Citizen then would you not think the best thing would be to be 100% of that fact before revoking UK Citizenship.

Itâ€™s unraveled already - the Home Office wonâ€™t be able to remove her UK Citizenship- they have made a complete mess of it


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## spongebob59 (Feb 20, 2019)

Guy on LBC made a valid point that if she did come back she'll be a target for all the right wing loonies.


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## Stuart_C (Feb 20, 2019)

Is she a threat to people in the UK going about their daily business?

Yes or No.

If Yes, jib her off.

If no, you need urgent medical attention.


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## Hobbit (Feb 20, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You would have thought in such a high profile case that our own Home Office would make sure 100% on everything before acting - if they â€œbelievedâ€ she was a Bangladesh Citizen then would you not think the best thing would be to be 100% of that fact before revoking UK Citizenship.

Itâ€™s unraveled already - the Home Office wonâ€™t be able to remove her UK Citizenship- they have made a complete mess of it
		
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Phil, I've explained how someone acquires Bangladeshi citizenship by birth, twice, and I've just checked it again. That makes it 3 times, for the hard of hearing. I've also looked at Bangladesh's rules on dual citizenship - here in Spain you can't have both but you can with Bangladesh. How many times do I have to post a cold hard verifiable fact before you admit you are wrong? Research it rather than post an opinion.

Whether an international court will support the UK? Maybe it will. Would a human rights court support the UK? I'm not so sure. But the facts above remain. As Bangladeshi law currently stands she is a Bangladeshi citizen by birth. 

I dare you, just for once in a thread, admit you got it wrong.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 20, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47312207#share-tools
Here you are, a bit of a read for those that would like to know where we,she, Bangladesh stands re the law.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 20, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Phil, I've explained how someone acquires Bangladeshi citizenship by birth, twice, and I've just checked it again. That makes it 3 times, for the hard of hearing. I've also looked at Bangladesh's rules on dual citizenship - here in Spain you can't have both but you can with Bangladesh. How many times do I have to post a cold hard verifiable fact before you admit you are wrong? Research it rather than post an opinion.

Whether an international court will support the UK? Maybe it will. Would a human rights court support the UK? I'm not so sure. But the facts above remain. As Bangladeshi law currently stands she is a Bangladeshi citizen by birth.

I dare you, just for once in a thread, admit you got it wrong.
		
Click to expand...

Um what is it you think I have got wrong ? 

The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- The Bangladesh Government have said she isnâ€™t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration. 

I have given an opinion on what I think the Home Office should have done to say the embarrassment of the current situation- my opinion , disagree with all you like but you because you disagree doesnâ€™t make me wrong 

You donâ€™t need to â€œexplainâ€ anything to me once twice or three times , I have read it already and not once didnâ€™t I dispute it - but something you appear to be ignoring is the Bangladesh Government and what they have stated.


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## Kellfire (Feb 21, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think the British government had to say she had Bangladeshi citizenship, it just has to show she could have it. They are right. Her baby was born in Syria yet it is classed as British due to her mother. She is British but could be Bangladeshi due to her parents. Very similar to the many Brits who are now deciding to obtain Irish passports despite never having been there. It's partly a theoretical issue.
		
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Please, explain what you know about people obtaining Irish passports.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Um what is it you think I have got wrong ?

The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- The Bangladesh Government have said she isnâ€™t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration.

I have given an opinion on what I think the Home Office should have done to say the embarrassment of the current situation- my opinion , disagree with all you like but you because you disagree doesnâ€™t make me wrong

You donâ€™t need to â€œexplainâ€ anything to me once twice or three times , I have read it already and not once didnâ€™t I dispute it - but something you appear to be ignoring is the Bangladesh Government and what they have stated.
		
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What is it about you, it appears you seem disappointed she may not return to the UK.  You will of course deny this but I cant quite understand your motive, is it that you want to polish your shiney sanctimonious image or is it related to your seemingly hatred for the Government and our Countries institutions.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			Is she a threat to people in the UK going about their daily business?

Yes or No.

If Yes, jib her off.

If no, you need urgent medical attention.
		
Click to expand...

Shes possibly a threat so best to jib her off to be on the safe side.


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## Fish (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- The Bangladesh Government have said she isnâ€™t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™ll put it another way. 

Why do you think the Home Office needed to check when it is clearly defined by the Bangladeshi government that if you have a Bangladeshi parent you have â€˜automatic citizenshipâ€™ up until the age of 21. 

It is not the case like many other countries that to obtain citizenship it is required thatâ€™s you apply for it and within that process it is either granted or refused, itâ€™s automatic at birth, as such she indeed does have Bangladeshi citizenship!


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## Slab (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Um what is it you think I have got wrong ?

The Home Office are saying she is having her UK Citizenship revoked because she has dual citizenship- *The Bangladesh Government have said she isnâ€™t a Citizen of their country and I believe the Home Office should have checked with them first before making such a declaration.*

I have given an opinion on what I think the Home Office should have done to say the embarrassment of the current situation- my opinion , disagree with all you like but you because you disagree doesnâ€™t make me wrong

You donâ€™t need to â€œexplainâ€ anything to me once twice or three times , I have read it already and not once didnâ€™t I dispute it - but something you appear to be ignoring is the Bangladesh Government and what they have stated.
		
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And how do you 'suppose' that conversation would've gone?

*UK Gov Question;* erm we're kinda looking to nip this in the bud and revoke any chance of her coming here, we kinda think she'll be a bit of a risk you see. Before we do this can I just check if its true what your public info says and she has dual nationality with you lads, as we all know we cant leave her stateless?

*Bangladesh Gov put our call on hold for a chat;*_ whether its true or not, if we say yes she has then we're probably stuffed as the last resort for her nationality. I'm not liking that option much, but since the UK were daft enough to ask & warn us before they revoke it themselves we can pretty much get out of this and either deny it straight off or revoke ours first before we even reply to them_

*Bangladesh Gov reply option A;* Yeah thanks for holding we looked and she doesn't, sorry can't help
*Bangladesh Gov reply option B;* Sorry to have kept you. You know she does have the right to come here but you fellas had a good idea and it got us thinking too.... so we revoked it an hour ago, leaving you chaps as the sole country... and as you know you cant leave her stateless can you?




I think its naive to believe it would have gone any other way if an official approach had been made


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## Dibby (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe actually read what I said - â€œIt *seemed* rushed



I donâ€™t think any of that changes my point

Simple solution - Home Office to Bangladesh Government - â€œ can we Check that this girl is actually a Bangladesh Citizen â€œ . Nope it â€œappearsâ€ the Home Office have gone stumbling ahead without completing checking things and I believe itâ€™s not the first time they have done something like this.

The Home Secretary stated he would remove her UK Citizenship- other people within the government and security services warned that it couldnâ€™t be done easily - Home Office went and did it anyway

Do I believe the Home Office would make a mistake again - yep most certainly, and I expect they will continue to make mistakes , seems itâ€™s just part and parcel of the current government

Itâ€™s seems from what the Bangladesh Government have said the Home Office clearly didnâ€™t investigate enough or knew enough to make the decision they did and right now the embarrassment is squarely with the UK
		
Click to expand...

Have you considered that it's not just our government that can get things wrong and maybe the Bangladeshi government has made the mistake this time?

Assuming 1 of her parents are Bangladesh born, it is clear cut she is a Bangladesh citizen. See the wording of the laws for yourself on the Bangladeshi government's website. The key points to read are sections 4 and 14, in particular note subsection 1A under point 14, as this one has thrown a lot of people, as they reach a conclusion after reading subsection 1.

http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/pdf_part.php?id=242


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2019)

Dibby said:



			Have you considered that it's not just our government that can get things wrong and maybe the Bangladeshi government has made the mistake this time?

Assuming 1 of her parents are Bangladesh born, it is clear cut she is a Bangladesh citizen. See the wording of the laws for yourself on the Bangladeshi government's website. The key points to read are sections 4 and 14, in particular note subsection 1A under point 14, as this one has thrown a lot of people, as they reach a conclusion after reading subsection 1.

http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/pdf_part.php?id=242

Click to expand...

As I said to Hobbit - I have read all the stuff including the Act , also listened to a few lawyers including one who used to work in Immigration and one who used to work at the Home Office.

All the publications etc say that she gets Bangladesh Citizen when she was born if one of her parents were born in Bangladesh ( I donâ€™t believe I have disputed that ) BUT speaking to this lawyer whilst playing yesterday the whole thing is a minefield because of her being born in the UK and whether her parents have dual nationality ( even if they have it by birthright ) , apparently there was a Citizenship Bill for Bangladesh which had a few changes in it in regards the claiming of Citizenship. And if Bangladesh just want to refuse her Citizenship regardless of their descent laws then they are on better grounding than the UK ( something about having to register the child when born )

Right from the beginning this has all seemed staged in areas by both the media and Government- I am of the opinion that during this period of ill feeling towards the government in regards Brexit they have looked at this girl and thought they could play on the emotions of the public

They get the girl all over the media - the public are going to be against her , demands for UK Citizenship to be stripped , petitions into the government, social media alive with it all about removing her - the Home Office chips in saying we will get rid of her Citizenship- a couple days later itâ€™s done , celebrating everywhere, people saying itâ€™s great the government showing some steel - all good PR and to boost the good feeling , all at the same time companies start to close , MPâ€™s quit but thatâ€™s all hidden before the Front page of the ISIS Bride.

Either itâ€™s all just a coincidence or itâ€™s very clever but I think they didnâ€™t expect the Bangladesh Government to react quickly and bluntly and for both Governments to have not even communicated with each other over the issue for me just shows a lack of incompetence and now the whole thing is going to drag out with imo our government looking like idiots ( and not for the first time )

This is all just my opinion on the issue at the end of the day


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## Fish (Feb 21, 2019)

I'm out, conspiracy theories now, you couldn't make it up......


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2019)

Wow, coincidentally played golf yesterday with a lawyer who apparently knew about a Bangladeshi citizenship bill! Case closed I reckon.

Now, just imagine if someone on here had a daughter who is a Lawyer, that may or may not be working for the Government at a high level, anyone got any ideas? Anyone? Hobbit, what about you fella? Any ideas.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As I said to Hobbit - I have read all the stuff including the Act , also listened to a few lawyers including one who used to work in Immigration and one who used to work at the Home Office.

All the publications etc say that she gets Bangladesh Citizen when she was born if one of her parents were born in Bangladesh ( I donâ€™t believe I have disputed that ) BUT speaking to this lawyer whilst playing yesterday the whole thing is a minefield because of her being born in the UK and whether her parents have dual nationality ( even if they have it by birthright ) , apparently there was a Citizenship Bill for Bangladesh which had a few changes in it in regards the claiming of Citizenship. And if Bangladesh just want to refuse her Citizenship regardless of their descent laws then they are on better grounding than the UK ( something about having to register the child when born )

Right from the beginning this has all seemed staged in areas by both the media and Government- I am of the opinion that during this period of ill feeling towards the government in regards Brexit they have looked at this girl and thought they could play on the emotions of the public

They get the girl all over the media - they public are going to be against demands for UK Citizenship to be stripped , petitions into the government, social media alive with it all about removing her - the Home Office chips in saying we will get rid of her Citizenship- a couple days later itâ€™s done , celebrating everywhere, people saying itâ€™s great the government showing some steel - all good PR and to boost the good feeling , all at the same time companies start to close , MPâ€™s quit but thatâ€™s all hidden before the Front page of the ISIS Bride.

Either itâ€™s all just a coincidence or itâ€™s very clever but I think they didnâ€™t expect the Bangladesh Government to react quickly and bluntly and for both Governments to have not even communicated with each other over the issue for me just shows a lack of incompetence and now the whole thing is going to drag out with imo our government looking like idiots ( and not for the first time )
		
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Do you really think the Home Office got the girl all over the media?

As far as I have seen it, Sky and others broke the story and Home Office then reacted to the lack of willingness of the girl to denounce ISIS and her involvement, and I think probably warned her of the consequences and then went ahead, no doubt on good legal advice from lawyers, and with no disrespect to the lawyers from Immigration and the HO, probably far more atuned to the legal nuances of this particular case, and revoked UK citizenship. I have no doubt they have acted on strong and correct legal advice and the situation regarding Bangladeshi nationality. 

I think your stance on this being some sort of PR coup to take news of factory closures, party revolts and Brexit of the front pages says more about your point of view with the country and the way it's run. It has been a media golden goose in terms of a story that can run and run and provoke a reaction from the public so you don't think the press and Sky aren't going to take advantage and keep this going. I really think to suggest it has been as puppets of the HO is really stretching credibility and all the HO has done is publicly announce the withdrawal of citizenship.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Please, explain what you know about people obtaining Irish passports. 

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‚


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2019)

Has anyone actually read that link that I put up, seriously. In the link it says that the British government screwed up in trying to expel two bangladeshis. They two people were over 21 and the government was told by the biggest courts in the world they were wrong and could not expel them. They even quoted the law ruling on the BBC link. Legal experts say that law now does not apply coz Missis Terrorist is under 21. In essence you cannot have it both ways and the British Government seem to be in the right. I stand corrected if I have read it wrong.


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## Dibby (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As I said to Hobbit - I have read all the stuff including the Act , also listened to a few lawyers including one who used to work in Immigration and one who used to work at the Home Office.

All the publications etc say that she gets Bangladesh Citizen when she was born if one of her parents were born in Bangladesh ( I donâ€™t believe I have disputed that ) BUT speaking to this lawyer whilst playing yesterday the whole thing is a minefield because of her being born in the UK and whether her parents have dual nationality ( even if they have it by birthright ) , apparently there was a Citizenship Bill for Bangladesh which had a few changes in it in regards the claiming of Citizenship. And if Bangladesh just want to refuse her Citizenship regardless of their descent laws then they are on better grounding than the UK ( something about having to register the child when born )

Right from the beginning this has all seemed staged in areas by both the media and Government- I am of the opinion that during this period of ill feeling towards the government in regards Brexit they have looked at this girl and thought they could play on the emotions of the public

They get the girl all over the media - the public are going to be against her , demands for UK Citizenship to be stripped , petitions into the government, social media alive with it all about removing her - the Home Office chips in saying we will get rid of her Citizenship- a couple days later itâ€™s done , celebrating everywhere, people saying itâ€™s great the government showing some steel - all good PR and to boost the good feeling , all at the same time companies start to close , MPâ€™s quit but thatâ€™s all hidden before the Front page of the ISIS Bride.

Either itâ€™s all just a coincidence or itâ€™s very clever but I think they didnâ€™t expect the Bangladesh Government to react quickly and bluntly and for both Governments to have not even communicated with each other over the issue for me just shows a lack of incompetence and now the whole thing is going to drag out with imo our government looking like idiots ( and not for the first time )

This is all just my opinion on the issue at the end of the day
		
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Her father didn't even move to the UK until 2007, 8 years after she was born, so unlikely he was a UK citizen at the time of her birth. Her mother could have been, we will have to wait until that fact is revealed.

Have you seen the statement from the Bangladeshi minister? According to the BBC article, it mentions the issues as her having never visited Bangladesh and not applying for dual citizenship. There is no part in the Bangladeshi law that says she has to have visited, and the law explicitly states those under 21 don't need to register to be dual citizens. 



			
				BBC Article said:
			
		


			But the ministry of foreign affairs said the government was "deeply concerned" she had been "erroneously identified" as a Bangladeshi national.

In a statement, it said Ms Begum had never applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh and had never visited the country.
		
Click to expand...

Given the above statements being wrong, is it possible that the Bangladeshis are the ones who have made a mistake and not the UK? 
Our government does a lot wrong, but for some reason, it's common to take the narrative that foreign governments always do right and speak the truth, when in reality they have agendas and make mistakes just as much as our lot.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2019)

Dibby said:



			Her father didn't even move to the UK until 2007, 8 years after she was born, so unlikely he was a UK citizen at the time of her birth. Her mother could have been, we will have to wait until that fact is revealed.

Have you seen the statement from the Bangladeshi minister? According to the BBC article, it mentions the issues as her having never visited Bangladesh and not applying for dual citizenship. There is no part in the Bangladeshi law that says she has to have visited, and the law explicitly states those under 21 don't need to register to be dual citizens.



Given the above statements being wrong, is it possible that the Bangladeshis are the ones who have made a mistake and not the UK?
Our government does a lot wrong, but for some reason, it's common to take the narrative that foreign governments always do right and speak the truth, when in reality they have agendas and make mistakes just as much as our lot.
		
Click to expand...

No doubt the Bangladesh Government could also be wrong or they have also acted rashly on emotions 

For me the biggest issue is the lack of communication between the two governments - itâ€™s all being played out in the media when it shouldnâ€™t be. 

This should all be going on in the background with none of us knowing anything until a final decision is made so there is no about turns. 

The Home Office made a complete mess when dealing with Hamza ( 8 years was it ? ) - it just seems complete incompetence to play this out in the media.


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## Hobbit (Feb 21, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Wow, coincidentally played golf yesterday with a lawyer who apparently knew about a Bangladeshi citizenship bill! Case closed I reckon.

Now, just imagine if someone on here had a daughter who is a Lawyer, that may or may not be working for the Government at a high level, anyone got any ideas? Anyone? Hobbit, what about you fella? Any ideas.
		
Click to expand...

If we're having a willy waving contest... I might know a barrister or two, one of which might be my daughter who might have been voted UK's #1 employed barrister last year, and that might be Senior Civil Servants...

I'd love to quote chapter and verse but in all honesty I very rarely discuss their work, and definitely not now with the daughter's current role. What I will say is that having heard her talking to her husband, the other Senior Civil Servant, about things like advice and where they get it and how its qualified.

Knee jerk reactions and played out in the media... someone doesn't know how the Civil Service works. In fact, bloody clueless.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 21, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Knee jerk reactions and played out in the media... someone doesn't know how the Civil Service works. In fact, bloody clueless.
		
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But has the moral high ground again


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2019)

Itâ€™s a shame some are starting to get a bit too personal - can we not on this forum just for once have a debate where peopleâ€™s opinions are respected even if you donâ€™t agree with them and they may not have the same â€œknowledgeâ€ as others - maybe itâ€™s a picture of the world these days - lack of respect for others views and some people â€œhaveâ€ to find a way to demean them 

Anyway a great article from the Guardian ,I donâ€™t know what side of the fence they are on ?  But Iâ€™m sure someone with more clue will let me know 

https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...st?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

Also this thread on Twitter has some really good stuff on it 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098150749454983168


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## Fish (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s a shame some are starting to get a bit too personal - can we not on this forum just for once have a debate where peopleâ€™s opinions are respected even if you donâ€™t agree with them and they may not have the same â€œknowledgeâ€ as others - maybe itâ€™s a picture of the world these days - lack of respect for others views and some people â€œhaveâ€ to find a way to demean them

Anyway a great article from the Guardian ,I donâ€™t know what side of the fence they are on ?  But Iâ€™m sure someone with more clue will let me know

https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...st?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

Also this thread on Twitter has some really good stuff on it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098150749454983168

Click to expand...

The'yre left, a bit more left than is comfortable for me, so right up Corbyns street, and Galey is as left as they come,


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 21, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			If we're having a willy waving contest... I might know a barrister or two, one of which might be my daughter who might have been voted UK's #1 employed barrister last year, and that might be Senior Civil Servants...

I'd love to quote chapter and verse but in all honesty I very rarely discuss their work, and definitely not now with the daughter's current role. What I will say is that having heard her talking to her husband, the other Senior Civil Servant, about things like advice and where they get it and how its qualified.

Knee jerk reactions and played out in the media... someone doesn't know how the Civil Service works. In fact, bloody clueless.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed mate, just find it a bit odd that if someone was having a discussion on any topic with those they choose, they would start by mentioning they were suspicious of whatâ€™s going on and perhaps mention they had discussed it with a more knowledgeable professional at the start, not suddenly remember it 12 hours later when others asked questions.

If I was cynical I might even suspect I didnâ€™t believe them.


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## Hobbit (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Itâ€™s a shame some are starting to get a bit too personal - can we not on this forum just for once have a debate where peopleâ€™s opinions are respected even if you donâ€™t agree with them and they may not have the same â€œknowledgeâ€ as others - maybe itâ€™s a picture of the world these days - lack of respect for others views and some people â€œhaveâ€ to find a way to demean them

Anyway a great article from the Guardian ,I donâ€™t know what side of the fence they are on ?  But Iâ€™m sure someone with more clue will let me know

https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...st?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

Also this thread on Twitter has some really good stuff on it


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1098150749454983168

Click to expand...

I don't respect your opinion on this Phil because it is shallow and reads more like a Red Top banner headline. I posted facts yet you continually said the govt got it wrong. Facts Phil, not opinions, but you continued to deny them. If you want respect, you need to earn it. I'll respect your considered opinions, and defend your right to express them and I'll happily debate opinions but I won't defend your denial of facts. And after posting up the facts several times... I wonder why people get frustrated with you. You never admit you got it wrong.

Do I think the govt acted legally? Yes, and the facts support that.

Do I think the govt have acted correctly? That takes us full circle back to a debate on opinions and 15 year old girls being brainwashed. Now if you want a debate on what's morally right about the issue we can have at it all day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 21, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			I don't respect your opinion on this Phil because it is shallow and reads more like a Red Top banner headline. I posted facts yet you continually said the govt got it wrong. Facts Phil, not opinions, but you continued to deny them. If you want respect, you need to earn it. I'll respect your considered opinions, and defend your right to express them and I'll happily debate opinions but I won't defend your denial of facts. And after posting up the facts several times... I wonder why people get frustrated with you. You never admit you got it wrong.
		
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Which â€œfactâ€ did I deny ?



			Do I think the govt acted legally? Yes, and the facts support that.
		
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 And I believe they have acted in haste without fully ensuring everything is correct 




			Do I think the govt have acted correctly? That takes us full circle back to a debate on opinions and 15 year old girls being brainwashed. Now if you want a debate on what's morally right about the issue we can have at it all day.
		
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Sorry but I not once tried to disclaim any of your â€œfactsâ€ about the legality of her being a Bangladesh Citizen - can you show me just once where I said you were wrong about the facts you were posting about her Citizenship- not once did I refute it even though you posted a number of times. 

Your opinion is just that an opinion the same as mine - you believe the government acted one way , i respect your opinion but as you unable to do the same there is no point discussing it further


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## bobmac (Feb 21, 2019)

It's a beautiful day outside.


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 21, 2019)

As long as our resident ISIS apologist doesn't come along.


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## bluewolf (Feb 21, 2019)

If I wasn't so busy, I might point out that there is a significant difference between "Giving advice" and "Taking advice".. But I'm really really busy.. So I won't.....


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No doubt the Bangladesh Government could also be wrong or they have also acted rashly on emotions

For me the biggest issue is the lack of communication between the two governments - itâ€™s all being played out in the media when it shouldnâ€™t be.

This should all be going on in the background with none of us knowing anything until a final decision is made so there is no about turns.

The Home Office made a complete mess when dealing with Hamza ( 8 years was it ? ) - it just seems complete incompetence to play this out in the media.
		
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You missed out that the press have latched onto this and reported it, whats that got to do with the Government.  Should the Government try to gag them?


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 21, 2019)

And now Corbyn says she should be allowed back into the UK.      Well he does usually side with the terrorists.


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## Hobbit (Feb 21, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The Home Office made a complete mess when dealing with Hamza ( 8 years was it ? ) - it just seems complete incompetence to play this out in the media.
		
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Arrested late 2004. Convicted early 2006, and jailed. Less than 2 years.

Whilst this was ongoing there was an extradition request from the USA. The UK agreed to the extradition but it was blocked by European Court of Human Rights, the reason being that the US justice system was deemed to be too harsh. The block was lifted when assurances were given as to Hamza's treatment in the US.

What complete mess?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			If we're having a willy waving contest... I might know a barrister or two, one of which might be my daughter who might have been voted UK's #1 employed barrister last year, and that might be Senior Civil Servants...

I'd love to quote chapter and verse but in all honesty I very rarely discuss their work, and definitely not now with the daughter's current role. What I will say is that having heard her talking to her husband, the other Senior Civil Servant, about things like advice and where they get it and how its qualified.

Knee jerk reactions and played out in the media... someone doesn't know how the Civil Service works. In fact, bloody clueless.
		
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It pains me to say that if this is a willy waving competition I am out. Hobbits is bigger than mine. â˜¹ï¸


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## Tashyboy (Feb 21, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Arrested late 2004. Convicted early 2006, and jailed. Less than 2 years.

Whilst this was ongoing there was an extradition request from the USA. The UK agreed to the extradition but it was blocked by European Court of Human Rights, the reason being that the US justice system was deemed to be too harsh. The block was lifted when assurances were given as to Hamza's treatment in the US.

What complete mess?
		
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Hobbit bugger off, all your facts are taking the fun out of this topic ðŸ˜˜

Oh hang on no there not. ðŸ‘


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## Fade and Die (Feb 21, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Arrested late 2004. Convicted early 2006, and jailed. Less than 2 years.

Whilst this was ongoing there was an extradition request from the USA. The UK agreed to the extradition but it was blocked by European Court of Human Rights, the reason being that the US justice system was deemed to be too harsh. The block was lifted when assurances were given as to Hamza's treatment in the US.

What complete mess?
		
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BOSH! Have that!ðŸ˜


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## Foxholer (Feb 21, 2019)

Worth a read to get a bit more clarification about reasons for arrest etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri

And here's a bit more comment about the entire episode! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/20/abu-hamza-arrest-take-so-long-us-terrorism-charges


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## Slime (Feb 21, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181#share-tools

Thoughts please.
		
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No, she shouldn't be allowed back.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2019)

Not wanting to spark up an old thread. 
But Hamza Bin Laden. Son of Bin Laden has been stripped of his Saudi Arabian citizenship. Now he was born in Saudi Arabia. So he is now stateless. But that breeches world wide law. The same way as silly skool girl being told she now is not a UK citizen. Now some people were getting very irate over that. So do we support Hamza Bin terrorist coz he now dont have a home or not. 
Don't give me it dont count coz its Saudi Arabia. Whats going off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Not wanting to spark up an old thread.
But Hamza Bin Laden. Son of Bin Laden has been stripped of his Saudi Arabian citizenship. Now he was born in Saudi Arabia. So he is now stateless. But that breeches world wide law. The same way as silly skool girl being told she now is not a UK citizen. Now some people were getting very irate over that. So do we support Hamza Bin terrorist coz he now dont have a home or not.
Don't give me it dont count coz its Saudi Arabia. Whats going off.
		
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He is the leader of Al Qaeda , is in hiding and on the run and you can leave someone stateless if you can prove the person carries a National/global threat - he is responsible for the killing a of a lot of people 

Maybe worth just researching a touch first


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He is the leader of Al Qaeda , is in hiding and on the run and you can leave someone stateless if you can prove the person carries a National/global threat - he is responsible for the killing a of a lot of people

Maybe worth just researching a touch first
		
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Would do but ave just read it and am on a love weekend. Always there to be educated and stand corrected phil. 
Think about it. ðŸ‘


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Not wanting to spark up an old thread.
But Hamza Bin Laden. Son of Bin Laden has been stripped of his Saudi Arabian citizenship. Now he was born in Saudi Arabia. So he is now stateless. But that breeches world wide law. The same way as silly skool girl being told she now is not a UK citizen. Now some people were getting very irate over that. So do we support Hamza Bin terrorist coz he now dont have a home or not.
Don't give me it dont count coz its Saudi Arabia. Whats going off.
		
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Only according to the Yanks, theyâ€™ve done the wanted posters, heâ€™s only threatened the USA with words, not sure heâ€™s actually done anything, only crime Iâ€™ve seen mentioned in all the reports is his membership of a terrorist group, itâ€™s the Yanks who have said heâ€™s the leader of Al Qaeda and legitimised him, not Al Qaeda themselves.
Not as if the Yanks have never had their own agenda at heart.


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## Old Skier (Mar 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Would do but ave just read it and am on a love weekend
		
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And your posting on here ---------why


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			And your posting on here ---------why 

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Guess who has laryngitis. ðŸ˜–


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Only according to the Yanks, theyâ€™ve done the wanted posters, heâ€™s only threatened the USA with words, not sure heâ€™s actually done anything, only crime Iâ€™ve seen mentioned in all the reports is his membership of a terrorist group, itâ€™s the Yanks who have said heâ€™s the leader of Al Qaeda and legitimised him, not Al Qaeda themselves.
Not as if the Yanks have never had their own agenda at heart.
		
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As you rightly say, its the US attaching him to the leadership of AL Qaeda https://news.sky.com/story/us-state-department-offers-1m-reward-for-osama-bin-ladens-son-11651407 but has he ever been proved to be responsible for killing a lot of people as LP claims. Not sure I've ever heard him mentioned in *direct relation* to any specific attack. That being the case can he be stripped of the citizenship based on the demands of the US?


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## Old Skier (Mar 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Guess who has laryngitis. ðŸ˜–
		
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You havnt got past the talking stage


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As you rightly say, its the US attaching him to the leadership of AL Qaeda https://news.sky.com/story/us-state-department-offers-1m-reward-for-osama-bin-ladens-son-11651407 but has he ever been proved to be responsible for killing a lot of people as LP claims. Not sure I've ever heard him mentioned in *direct relation* to any specific attack. That being the case can he be stripped of the citizenship based on the demands of the US?
		
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They do a lot of deals worth billions with the Saudiâ€™s, look at Trump refusing to condemn the Saudi leaders after the journalist was killed in Turkey.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 1, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			You havnt got past the talking stage 

Click to expand...

Does grunting count. ðŸ¤”


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## SocketRocket (Mar 1, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Does grunting count. ðŸ¤”
		
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Its compulsory but Barking is dodgy ðŸ˜


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 8, 2019)

It's just been reported on the BBC website that sadly the baby has died.


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## chrisd (Mar 8, 2019)

drive4show said:



			It's just been reported on the BBC website that sadly the baby has died.
		
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And the BBC news put it out like it was our Government's fault!


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 9, 2019)

chrisd said:



			And the BBC news put it out like it was our Government's fault!
		
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In fairness Chris, they appear to be reporting Labour's claim that the death is the result of the Home Secretary's "callous and inhumane" decision to strip her of her British citizenship.  If that is what Labour said then they are claiming the child's death is the fault of the Government.  And if that is what Labour said then that is petty political point scoring of the very worst sort.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47506145


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## chrisd (Mar 9, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			In fairness Chris, they appear to be reporting Labour's claim that the death is the result of the Home Secretary's "callous and inhumane" decision to strip her of her British citizenship.  If that is what Labour said then they are claiming the child's death is the fault of the Government.  And if that is what Labour said then that is petty political point scoring of the very worst sort.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47506145

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Indeed that's correct, but the way it came over to me was that the reporter wholly agreed that it was the Governments fault that the baby had died  - I may have over thought it though


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## Tashyboy (Mar 9, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Indeed that's correct, but the way it came over to me was that the reporter wholly agreed that it was the Governments fault that the baby had died  - I may have over thought it though
		
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Me ave just read the whole piece and the BBC could of put a thousand differant headlines on to tell this chapter of a Long saga. But the government/Home secretary is now criticised, was the headline they went with. Even miss Abbott said  as a British citizen she  should be allowed back. Even though her husband said she should go to Holland with him.

Thoughts for the poor little innocent baby who never deserved any of this.


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## Don Barzini (Mar 9, 2019)

If people really want to apportion blame, theres only one person to blame for the death of this baby. And it isnâ€™t the Home Secretary.


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## Dando (Mar 9, 2019)

Just had the misfortune of listening to Ed Daley waffle on about this. THe way he was talking youâ€™d have thought sheâ€™d only stolen sweets


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 9, 2019)

The loss of any innocent childâ€™s life is tragic, but has she or he husband ever considered all the innocent children who will die or have died or will grow up without parents due the actions of ISIS.


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## UtopianAsh (Mar 11, 2019)

No child should be raised in a warzone. There is no exception to the rule and this is the exact reason why.


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## Orikoru (Mar 11, 2019)

There was never a baby guys, come on.


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## USER1999 (Mar 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			There was never a baby guys, come on.
		
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I think there was, but was it borrowed?

Bet we didn't land on the moon either.


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## Hobbit (Mar 11, 2019)

UtopianAsh said:



			No child should be raised in a warzone. There is no exception to the rule and this is the exact reason why.
		
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Nice sentiment, but iâ€™ve Never seen that rule written down. In the real world itâ€™s happened for 1000â€™s of years and will continue to do so. Itâ€™s not right, and I admire your lofty ambition but they are just empty words.


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## IanM (Mar 11, 2019)

I wonder what you'd have to _actually do_ to make Corbyn/Abbott say, "sorry pal, that's out of order, you aint coming back in!"  

Instead we have "British Govt is to blame, now tell me what happened!"


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 11, 2019)

UtopianAsh said:



			No child should be raised in a warzone. There is no exception to the rule and this is the exact reason why.
		
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Maybe we start by asking those who start these wars to keep it in their trousers or keep their legs closed.


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## Fade and Die (Mar 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			There was never a baby guys, come on.
		
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Exactly, it was about as realistic as the baby Jesus in the kids nativity!


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## Dando (Mar 11, 2019)

UtopianAsh said:



			No child should be raised in a warzone. There is no exception to the rule and this is the exact reason why.
		
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Then she shouldnâ€™t have gone out there and had kids!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2019)

Suprised that it has gone under the radar that the British government  has revoked the British citizenship of two more ISIS brides. Yet nowt seems to of been said.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Suprised that it has gone under the radar that the British government  has revoked the British citizenship of two more ISIS brides. Yet nowt seems to of been said.
		
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It has been on the news but they are not playing the same pr game as the original woman so it has not got the same legs.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It has been on the news but they are not playing the same pr game as the original woman so it has not got the same legs.
		
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Wondered if no new baby involved was part of the reason ðŸ¤”


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 11, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Wondered if no new baby involved was part of the reason ðŸ¤”
		
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Quite possibly. That gave the story an added angle for the press and they could see it being more than a one day wonder. A simple, ISIS bride stuck in refugee camp story isn't going to create much interest, as it hasn't.


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## robinthehood (Apr 22, 2019)

I see she has been granted legal aid to fight the citizenship case. Happy to be paying for that?


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## Fish (Apr 22, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			I see she has been granted legal aid to fight the citizenship case. Happy to be paying for that?
		
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Hillsborough families (British Citizens) didn't get it, Millionaire Shoreham pilot got it, Lee Rigby Murderers got it, now this decision will set a precedent as all the other trapped Jihadist's will want it based on her case, at a reported Â£24m to the tax payer!

This country has gone to the wall!


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## woody69 (Apr 22, 2019)

Fish said:



			Hillsborough families (British Citizens) didn't get it, Millionaire Shoreham pilot got it, Lee Rigby Murderers got it, now this decision will set a precedent as all the other trapped Jihadist's will want it based on her case, at a reported Â£24m to the tax payer!

This country has gone to the wall!
		
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No it hasn't.

Maybe this will help you understand why she is entitled to Legal Aid - https://inews.co.uk/opinion/shamima-begum-legal-aid-secret-barrister/

Also, pretty sure the Hillsborough families were given legal aid.


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## Kellfire (Apr 22, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			I see she has been granted legal aid to fight the citizenship case. Happy to be paying for that?
		
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Absolutely.


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## Foxholer (Apr 22, 2019)

Fish said:



			Hillsborough families (British Citizens) didn't get it....
		
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From 2012....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...ees-for-families-of-Hillsborough-victims.html

From 2016.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-37852267

Though it probably wasn't deemed 'Legal Aid' as such


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## adam6177 (Apr 22, 2019)

woody69 said:



			No it hasn't.

Maybe this will help you understand why she is entitled to Legal Aid - https://inews.co.uk/opinion/shamima-begum-legal-aid-secret-barrister/

Also, pretty sure the Hillsborough families were given legal aid.
		
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Entitled to and deserves to..... Two very different things in my book . And she definitely doesn't deserve any help.


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## Kellfire (Apr 22, 2019)

adam6177 said:



			Entitled to and deserves to..... Two very different things in my book . And she definitely doesn't deserve any help.
		
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You didnâ€™t read the article, did you?


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## Papas1982 (Apr 22, 2019)

If she'd got the aid staright if the bat I would understand. But if we've removed her citizenship, surely she no longer has an entitlement


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## Kellfire (Apr 22, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			If she'd got the aid staright if the bat I would understand. But if we've removed her citizenship, surely she no longer has an entitlement
		
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You didnâ€™t read the article either, did you? The legal aid is to help decide if she can have her citizenship removed. It certainly looks likes she canâ€™t.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2019)

I have no issue with her contesting the removal of her British citizenship (as long as she loses ), but if she wants to contest it. Let someone set up a crowdfunding page. I do not see why she should get legal aid ( ie taxpayers money) as she joined an organisation that never recognised western laws etc etc. But now she chooses to use said western laws to try to get back her British Citizenship.


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## Hobbit (Apr 22, 2019)

I have no problem whatsoever with her getting legal aid. Anyone and everyone should be supported when contesting a prosecution brought by the State. She didn't get the chance to contest it in the first place, which in my opinion is wrong.

As to whether I think she should be allowed back into the UK, that's a separate issue in my eyes. For me its more about being able to contest her case on a level playing field with the State's resources.


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## Papas1982 (Apr 22, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			You didnâ€™t read the article either, did you? The legal aid is to help decide if she can have her citizenship removed. It certainly looks likes she canâ€™t.
		
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Nope I simply responded to the statement on here sheâ€™d been allowed it.


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