# Sexuality In Sport



## Fader (Feb 10, 2014)

As a lot on here know I'm a big NFL fan, interesting development going on at the moment in that the draft for this year (where 32 teams pick the best college prospects over 7 rounds for new players) contains a guy called Michael Sam who has openly admitted to being gay. 

In this day and age that should really be a non issue, but this is actually the first ever time an NFL player (potential in this case) has openly admitted to being gay. Its causing a massive stirring in someparts on the NFLUK forum, 99% of the posters supporting him and hoping it will allow for others to come out and be themselves, but there is a small smattering of those being against it. Even a suggestion that gay players should used seperate changing facilities which imo is ridiculous in this day and age people still hold that view. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are going to fancy every living man/woman dependant on their own gender.

Not really sure why I put this on here as already being discussed elsewhere, but thought it'd be interesting to see golfers take on it especially as one guy in the NFL thread pointed to golf and tennis as being sports that wouldn't allow same dressing rooms!

BBC Article - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/26119059

NFLUK Forum thread for those interested - http://forum.nfluk.com/showthread.php?t=101539


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## Foxholer (Feb 10, 2014)

Prejudice is tough to overcome, because of the er....prejudice!

Humans are a 'herd' animal, so that sets the mentality!


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 10, 2014)

Thank god it is changing in sport, slowly but surely.  I'm sure most people nowadays would just go 'so what'.


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## Hobbit (Feb 10, 2014)

Tough one.

Sharing the same playing field, even in a contact sport, no problem.

Sharing a changing room with someone who doesn't find you sexually attractive is one thing but sharing it with someone who develops an erection as you walk past from the showers... sorry, but my stomach flips at the thought.


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2014)

Was a piece written by a former nfl kicker recently that is worth reading if you have an interest in this

http://deadspin.com/i-was-an-nfl-player-until-i-was-fired-by-two-cowards-an-1493208214/@johncook


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 10, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Tough one.

Sharing the same playing field, even in a contact sport, no problem.

Sharing a changing room with someone who doesn't find you sexually attractive is one thing but sharing it with someone who develops an erection as you walk past from the showers... sorry, but my stomach flips at the thought.
		
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So are you suggesting that just because some guy is gay he will automatically find you sexually attractive? Is that not a little presumptuous?

Straight, gay or bi it really is irrelevant. Whatever the sport the only question is are they any good.


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 10, 2014)

Think Hobbit is saying it is a possibility that this could happen. Easy for us on here to say we do have any issues. Would I be comfortable sharing showers/changing areas with an openly gay man? Not so sure I would tbh.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 10, 2014)

A positive thing today that the Captain of the England ladies football team has declared to all that she is gay.  

But just wait for the homophobic, snide and sexist comments of the sort 'well it's ladies football - what do you expect...' or 'actually she's no bad lookin'  - I'd give her one - what a waste...'

But BIG positives from me - and thumbs up to the lass.  Good stuff and good luck to her - I am sure she'll be fine.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 10, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			Think Hobbit is saying it is a possibility that this could happen. Easy for us on here to say we do have any issues. Would I be comfortable sharing showers/changing areas with an openly gay man? Not so sure I would tbh.
		
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Why on earth would you feel uncomfortable.  Do you imagine for one second he'd fancy you 

Some of us have overly fertile imaginations I think


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## Hobbit (Feb 10, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			So are you suggesting that just because some guy is gay he will automatically find you sexually attractive? Is that not a little presumptuous?

Straight, gay or bi it really is irrelevant. Whatever the sport the only question is are they any good.
		
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Think you're reading too much into my post. Where in my post do I say "automatically?" As an excessively cuddly 55 yr old I dare say very few would find me attractive.

As a parent of a gay child, now adult, and a cousin who's gay, and a very good friend who's gay, and having house shared with two gays, I have no problem with an individual's sexuallity. But I'm not comfortable as per the example in my first post.


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 10, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Why on earth would you feel uncomfortable.  Do you imagine for one second he'd fancy you 

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He might do


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 10, 2014)

As the cliche goes, one of my best friends is gay.  And we have shared showers, changing rooms etc etc.  And as he says to any straight man worried that he will jump on them just because they are a man, don't flatter yourself love.


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## louise_a (Feb 10, 2014)

As it is pretty certain that there are gays playing in all sports already, surely getting an erection n the changing room is not a problem, otherwise lots of gay players would be outing themselves unintentionally.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 10, 2014)

The more that come out the better for sport 

Football is very tribal and "masculine" - how many current players playing in the UK or even Europe have come out ? Think the answer is none - why ? Because they are scared to be ridiculed - it's very wrong and needs to change but I can't see it happening any time soon

The sooner is becomes accepted in all walks of life the easier it will be for people to lead the lives they wish


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## Ethan (Feb 10, 2014)

I don't think people really care these days. 

In golf, the LPGA has always been a bit nervous about the issue, especially around the Nabisco Dinah Shore event which is held in Palm Springs and is a big event for the local gay community.

But there have always been lesbian players. Rosie Jones came out a few years back, one of the leading all-time winners in the game still active on Tour is widely known to be gay, and you wouldn't have to be Hercule Poirot to guess at another leading British player's orientation.

But none of that has affected their popularity with golf fans or sponsors. 

I am sure there are gay players on the US Tour too, although admittedly there are also a few bible bashers on Tour who might disapprove.


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## palindromicbob (Feb 10, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Tough one.

Sharing the same playing field, even in a contact sport, no problem.

Sharing a changing room with someone who doesn't find you sexually attractive is one thing but sharing it with someone who develops an erection as you walk past from the showers... sorry, but my stomach flips at the thought.
		
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I'd be flattered.  Just because you've lit the flame doesn't mean you are going to be burned by it.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 10, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			Think Hobbit is saying it is a possibility that this could happen. Easy for us on here to say we do have any issues. Would I be comfortable sharing showers/changing areas with an openly gay man? Not so sure I would tbh.
		
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I was perhaps a little clumsy in making my point which is that those of us who have, in the past, played team sports have quite probably shared dressing rooms & showers with gay people without any problems.

Just because someone comes out surely does not mean they will automatically become predatorially promiscuous.


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 10, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I was perhaps a little clumsy in making my point which is that those of us who have, in the past, played team sports have quite probably shared dressing rooms & showers with gay people without any problems.

*Just because someone comes out surely does not mean they will automatically become predatorially promiscuous.*

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Not saying that at all but the possibility is there that is the point I am making


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## SocketRocket (Feb 10, 2014)

I dont really care if someone is Gay and would never do anything to prejudice them.  I dont' like homosexuality though but it seems that in this enlightened age that is somehow wrong!   Or is it?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 10, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			[/B]

Not saying that at all but the possibility is there that is the point I am making
		
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Yes and my point is that the possibility has always been there and is not increased by someone being open about their sexuality.


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## User20205 (Feb 10, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont really care if someone is Gay and would never do anything to prejudice them.  I dont' like homosexuality though but it seems that in this enlightened age that is somehow wrong!   Or is it?
		
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There is a certain contradiction in what you say, you don't like it but you wouldn't prejudice

I'd have no problem with it, I've got a background in team sports, I would have absolutely no issue in playing with an openly gay team mate. 

The sexual attraction card is a massive red herring!!

Many female teams have an open mixed sexuality and it doesn't seem to be an issue.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 10, 2014)

therod said:



			There is a certain contradiction in what you say, you don't like it but you wouldn't prejudice

I'd have no problem with it, I've got a background in team sports, I would have absolutely no issue in playing with an openly gay team mate. 

The sexual attraction card is a massive red herring!!

Many female teams have an open mixed sexuality and it doesn't seem to be an issue.
		
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No Contradiction.    I would not treat a gay person any different than anyone else and accept that they have a right to live their lives as they wish.   I dislike homosexuality though, the concept of same gender sexual relations is something I have tried to resolve as normal behaviour but I just cannot.  I accept that my feelings are probably outdated and out of touch with modern norms.


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## drawboy (Feb 10, 2014)

For god sake, a gay man isn't going to even bother with a straight guy. What would be the point? They are not going to stare at someones lunchbox or offer to wash your back. I have two gay cousins, both smashing blokes, bit limp on the handshake but never once have they held down a pro American footballer and er, er....well you know what I mean. 
Gay men are interested in other gay men that is why they are gay.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2014)

I think it is still a big step in US Pro sport to come out and admit it, even more so before you are drafted to a franchise. It shouldn't make a jot of difference but given some the attitude of some states, intolerance isn't too strong, actually homophobic is right, surely it will impact who will and won't sign him


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 10, 2014)

drawboy said:



			For god sake, a gay man isn't going to even bother with a straight guy. What would be the point? They are not going to stare at someones lunchbox or offer to wash your back. I have two gay cousins, both smashing blokes, bit limp on the handshake but never once have they held down a pro American footballer and er, er....well you know what I mean. 
Gay men are interested in other gay men that is why they are gay.
		
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I'm sorry but that is rubbish. So your saying gay men don't find The likes of Beckham or Brad Pitt attractive?


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## freddielong (Feb 10, 2014)

What he said is isn't going to bother whether he finds them attractive or not is irrelevant


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## drawboy (Feb 10, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm sorry but that is rubbish. So your saying gay men don't find The likes of Beckham or Brad Pitt attractive?
		
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No I am not saying they would not find them attractive. I am sure they would, as would some straight men, I am saying they would not jump on him in a shower full of other straight men. What would they possibly have to gain?


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 10, 2014)

drawboy said:



			No I am not saying they would not find them attractive. I am sure they would, as would some straight men,
		
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I'm more of a George Clooney man myself, or Jose Mourinho.  Plus David Tennant has something about him...


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## Ethan (Feb 10, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			[/B]

Not saying that at all but the possibility is there that is the point I am making
		
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Yeah, you'd never find a red blooded hetero golfer, say someone like Tiger Woods, being promiscuous.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 10, 2014)

palindromicbob said:



			I'd be flattered.  Just because you've lit the flame doesn't mean you are going to be burned by it.
		
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Same here... Then I would question their sanity.


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 10, 2014)

Ethan said:



			Yeah, you'd never find a red blooded hetero golfer, say someone like Tiger Woods, being promiscuous.
		
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We are on about same sex relationships here and sharing communal facilities. Totally irrelevant point.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 10, 2014)

drawboy said:



			For god sake, a gay man isn't going to even bother with a straight guy. What would be the point? They are not going to stare at someones lunchbox or offer to wash your back. I have two gay cousins, both smashing blokes, bit limp on the handshake but never once have they held down a pro American footballer and er, er....well you know what I mean. 
Gay men are interested in other gay men that is why they are gay.
		
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Strange you would say that, I was getting chatted by a gay bar man in front of my to be wife ... It was hilarious and all very good natured.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 10, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			We are on about same sex relationships here and sharing communal facilities. Totally irrelevant point.
		
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I prefer there to be cubicles instead a communal urinal ... But that has nothing to do with sexuality, its about privacy.


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## Foxholer (Feb 10, 2014)

harpo_72 said:



			I prefer there to be cubicles instead a communal urinal ... But that has nothing to do with sexuality, its about privacy.
		
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You'd appreciate this then! http://www.flashgames247.com/game/other-games/the-urinal-game.html


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## Stuart_C (Feb 10, 2014)

Why should sportsmen/womenhave to confirm their sexuality?
How does it make it better for the sport?

In fact why do people In general have to tell all in sundry their business?

 I think a lot of boils down to the way the majority of people broadcast their daily routines all over the web via social media etc and others who think it's perfectly fine to pass comment and or judgment on others.

Private life should remain exactly that.


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## medwayjon (Feb 11, 2014)

Personally, I think in todays society someone coming out as Gay should not be newsworthy in any way as it is not that big a deal

We are all the same

The worst thing I hear in relation to gay sportsmen is the changing rooms thing, it doesnt bother me, as I know my own sexuality, and anyway, to assume that every gay man will be excited to see you is incredibly over-confident!

I will leave it to comrade Bragg to finish my thoughts

http://youtu.be/liNnCKPeEv0


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Why should sportsmen/womenhave to confirm their sexuality?
How does it make it better for the sport?

In fact why do people In general have to tell all in sundry their business?

 I think a lot of boils down to the way the majority of people broadcast their daily routines all over the web via social media etc and others who think it's perfectly fine to pass comment and or judgment on others.

Private life should remain exactly that.
		
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I think its more to do with wanting to live in a society where people are able to be gay in sport, or indeed in any walk of life, without suffering prejudice and abuse.  One way is to not tell anyone and keep it buttoned up. The other is to make it so it is not an issue.

Tom Daily's interview when he came out was really good regarding this subject.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2014)

medwayjon said:



			Personally, I think in todays society someone coming out as Gay should not be newsworthy in any way as it is not that big a deal

We are all the same

The worst thing I hear in relation to gay sportsmen is the changing rooms thing, it doesnt bother me, as I know my own sexuality, and anyway, to assume that every gay man will be excited to see you is incredibly over-confident!

I will leave it to comrade Bragg to finish my thoughts

http://youtu.be/liNnCKPeEv0

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Top post, with extra marks for referring to Sir Billy of Bragg.  May go and listen to Tank Park Salute now.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 11, 2014)

Whenever I finish a workout and go into the changing rooms my usual priorities are....

* retrieve toiletries from locker
* remove sweat-soaked training gear
* go in shower
* leave shower, towel dry
* get remainder of belongs from locker
* get dressed
* dry hair
* leave

I haven't yet felt the urge to come on to any strangers in there....

However if you do have hang ups about sharing the changing room with us gays here's a couple of thoughts. 

Firstly, you've almost certainly already done so, whether you realise it or not. And, perhaps worryingly for you, there have been several times in my gym where I have known for a fact there were more gays than straights in the changing room.....


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## Doh (Feb 11, 2014)

You are what you are, how you are(as a person) is more important.To me anyway.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 11, 2014)

I don't know why anyone needs to make a big song & dance about their sexuality.
Attention seeking if IMO


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			However if you do have hang ups about sharing the changing room with us gays here's a couple of thoughts. 

Firstly, you've almost certainly already done so, whether you realise it or not. And, perhaps worryingly for you, there have been several times in my gym where I have known for a fact there were more gays than straights in the changing room.....
		
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Oh my god, I might have caught gay!!!

To be honest if any gay man came on to me I'd take it as a huge compliment.


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## Slab (Feb 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



_I don't know why anyone needs to make a big song & dance about their sexuality._
Attention seeking if IMO
		
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Is this statement even politically correct? Are you suggesting some link to the theater or the arts


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## Aztecs27 (Feb 11, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Whenever I finish a workout and go into the changing rooms my usual priorities are....

* retrieve toiletries from locker
* remove sweat-soaked training gear
* go in shower
* leave shower, towel dry
* get remainder of belongs from locker
* get dressed
** dry hair*
* leave

I haven't yet felt the urge to come on to any strangers in there....

However if you do have hang ups about sharing the changing room with us gays here's a couple of thoughts. 

Firstly, you've almost certainly already done so, whether you realise it or not. And, perhaps worryingly for you, there have been several times in my gym where I have known for a fact there were more gays than straights in the changing room.....
		
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Tart!  

But in all seriousness - thank you for your candid 1st hand response, seems like a lot of people make assumptions that all gay chaps can't help themselves at the very sight of another man. The fact this is still news in this day and age is pathetic, but it is what it is...I can understand why he came out and hope that he's accepted. There are A LOT of close-minded, bigoted people in the world, and a good chunk of these are in the US unfortunately (I happened across one such douchebag yesterday) which leads me to believe he may have a rocky road in front of him, but hopefully he can still follow his dream and become a success in the NFL.


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## Aztecs27 (Feb 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don't know why anyone needs to make a big song & dance about their sexuality.
Attention seeking if IMO
		
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It's not about attention-seeking or making a song and dance about it, it's about being able to live a normal life without being accosted. 

Had he not come out, made it to the NFL, became a big star and was caught out on one of his days off with his boyfriend/husband by a papp/fan, there would be a huge uproar. He's trying to avoid that. 

His alternative is to live a life of secrecy or give up on following his dream, which NO ONE should have to do.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2014)

Stonewall reckons between 1 in 15 and 1 in 20 blokes are 'gay' (not sure how the define that).  I know plenty of gay guys but none in my club.  And I don't stand in the shower or changing room worrying whether this naked bloke or that naked bloke who comes is gay - and oddly enough I don't ask 

But like @socketrocket - I am totally comfortable with gay relationships - but I have to admit that I do struggle a bit to reconcile the idea of sexual acts between gay blokes with my upbringing.  I am sure it is a generational thing and my kids probably won't be in the slightest bit discomforted by it.  And so maybe it is going to be 20yrs before top level sportsmen and women being gay is completely accepted by the majority without prejudice.


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## Birchy (Feb 11, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Oh my god, I might have caught gay!!!

*To be honest if any gay man came on to me I'd take it as a huge compliment*.
		
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Oh my word nooooooooooooooooo, I agree with Hacker Khan 

To be honest I would shake his............................................

































Hand :thup:


P.S Yes I know its very unlikely


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## bladeplayer (Feb 11, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Why should sportsmen/women have to confirm their sexuality?
How does it make it better for the sport?

In fact why do people In general have to tell all in sundry their business?

 I think a lot of boils down to the way the majority of people broadcast their daily routines all over the web via social media etc and others who think it's perfectly fine to pass comment and or judgment on others.

Private life should remain exactly that.
		
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What a great answer :thup:

Mind your own business in life , live and let live once it is within the constraints of the law is consensual & you are not harming others ..


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## smange (Feb 11, 2014)

Great article by Graeme le Saux telling how he was treated by certain fellow players, which he names, after he was wrongly accused of being gay.


http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.co...-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

Anyone who thinks it will be any different these days is sadly wrong, football and I dare say all male dominated sports will always have a problem with homophobia and as the article proves its not just from the terracing and stands that the prejudices come.


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## User20205 (Feb 11, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			What a great answer :thup:

Mind your own business in life , live and let live once it is within the constraints of the law is consensual & you are not harming others ..
		
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Maybe in a perfect world...but this isn't. Until now very few male team sports athletes have been able to come out. Why is this ? Does it affect their marketability or their standing in the team.

Normally I would say its non of anyone's business, however in these type of environments these Guys are trailblazers. It is important to break down the last bastions where homophobia exists, and this public act is part of doing this.


Re socket & hogan, I appreciate what you say, it is a generational thing, and maybe it's something else. Please don't think I'm having a go, because I'm not, but do you think your 'faith' is a barrier to acceptance ? (I think I recall you both being men of faith)

I'm genuinely interested in the answer


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## Tashyboy (Feb 11, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Tough one.

Sharing the same playing field, even in a contact sport, no problem.

Sharing a changing room with someone who doesn't find you sexually attractive is one thing but sharing it with someone who develops an erection as you walk past from the showers... sorry, but my stomach flips at the thought.
		
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Strange thing is though hobbit, one of the lads I work with at the pit who is one of me Bessie pals is openly gay and mixed race to boot (Jamacian father) he is as normal ? As me, gets showered with the rest of the guys and has no problems 99.9% of the time.
some lads do give him some stick as part of banter! and others quite frankly are not interested one bit.

he probably gets more stick being a sky sports man utd fan. Which is fully justified. Having worked with him for 7 years and touched on the subject hundreds of times re his sexuality he maintains that he does not find every naked man attractive in the same sense you see women in the pub etc, and would not give them a second glance. Furthermore, when you know 650 men at work, some of them are complete as soles (pardon the pun), so even if it were gifted on a plate he would not be interested.

he also maintains that there are several men who he knows are gay/ bi sexual but will not out them because it is not his call and the stigma still associated with coming out. Plus the fact that most of them are married.

as has been mentioned some people are a bit shallow when it comes to gayness, but at least you know where you stand with them and they are honest about it. It is the back stabbers that are nice to his face but slag him off behind his back that grip my bottom. (Pardon the pun ). 

The bottom line for me is I am happily married and as straight as Chesterfield church, and as long as they don't come in my bubble, (there I go again), we can and should all get along fine.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2014)

therod said:



			Re socket & hogan, I appreciate what you say, it is a generational thing, and maybe it's something else. Please don't think I'm having a go, because I'm not, but do you think your 'faith' is a barrier to acceptance ? (I think I recall you both being men of faith)

I'm genuinely interested in the answer
		
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And it is a very good question to put to me.

For me I don't think it is (maybe it's just a physical thing - not sure)  - but that said I *had *significant reservations about same sex *marriage*.  In fact I nearly wrote 'marriage' but that would indicate that I still have problems with it.  And in one respect I do as I see marriage as a religious institution that the state has no business claiming for their own and redefining for social policy ends.  

I completely happy that a gay couple should have the same rights and privileges under law as any couple, and I reconcile that a gay couple can now get married through my acceptance of the fact that the existence of one thing does not necessarily exclude the other.  

So if ever I find myself getting concerned about it (though in truth I can't say that I do) - from a belief perspective I simply allow myself to differentiate in my mind between a marriage of homosexuals and marriage of heterosexuals.  I accept to myself that I can't change this now that marriage is re-defined - so i must find a way of parking it so that I don't cart the concern around with me. And the concern goes away.

Does that make sense?


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## Foxholer (Feb 11, 2014)

Gay?

So what!

It's the Straight folk, and their inability to accept 'different', that are the 'problem'!


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## cleanstrike (Feb 11, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Gay?

So what!

It's the Straight folk, and their inability to accept 'different', that are the 'problem'!
		
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No! The problem is that these people seem to be compelled to announce their sexuality to the world via the media. You don't get straight people broadcasting to the nation at the top of their voice that they prefer members of the opposite sex so why is it that gay people feel the need to tell everyone about their sexual preferences. I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; either they are seeking publicity or it's some strange form of perverse exhibitionism.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 11, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Does that make sense?
		
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Nope


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 11, 2014)

cleanstrike said:



			You don't get straight people broadcasting to the nation at the top of their voice that they prefer members of the opposite sex
		
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Probably the most hilarious comment ever on the forum!

:thup:


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## Aztecs27 (Feb 11, 2014)

cleanstrike said:



			No! The problem is that these people seem to be compelled to announce their sexuality to the world via the media. You don't get straight people broadcasting to the nation at the top of their voice that they prefer members of the opposite sex so why is it that gay people feel the need to tell everyone about their sexual preferences. I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; either they are seeking publicity or it's some strange form of perverse exhibitionism.
		
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What a ridiculous post.. If people treated homosexuality the same way they treated hetrosexuality, there wouldn't be a need to announce such things, but because people can't deal with other people being different (particuarly famous people) without the media spiralling out of control, then they have to speak up before they get "found out" and it becomes a tabloid headline with people sending hate mail/death threats and treating these people differently because they're gay.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2014)

cleanstrike said:



			No! The problem is that these people seem to be compelled to announce their sexuality to the world via the media. You don't get straight people broadcasting to the nation at the top of their voice that they prefer members of the opposite sex so why is it that gay people feel the need to tell everyone about their sexual preferences. I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; either they are seeking publicity or it's some strange form of perverse exhibitionism.
		
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Meanwhile, back in the dark ages.....


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## Aztecs27 (Feb 11, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Meanwhile, back in the dark ages.....
		
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:thup:


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Oh my word nooooooooooooooooo, I agree with Hacker Khan 

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Who'd have thought it, we have finally come together over our secret desire to be chatted up down a gay bar.


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## Fader (Feb 11, 2014)

smange said:



			Great article by Graeme le Saux telling how he was treated by certain fellow players, which he names, after he was wrongly accused of being gay.


http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.co...-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/

Anyone who thinks it will be any different these days is sadly wrong, football and I dare say all male dominated sports will always have a problem with homophobia and as the article proves its not just from the terracing and stands that the prejudices come.
		
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Thanks for posting that, have just read right through and found it a thoroughly interesting read and not at all surprised by the Paul Ince comments.



cleanstrike said:



			No! The problem is that these people seem to be compelled to announce their sexuality to the world via the media. You don't get straight people broadcasting to the nation at the top of their voice that they prefer members of the opposite sex so why is it that gay people feel the need to tell everyone about their sexual preferences. *I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; either they are seeking publicity or it's some strange form of perverse exhibitionism*.
		
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Or is it that in this instance there has never been a openly gay NFL player as it is seen in the states as a taboo in professional sport, so he is doing this openly so that nobody then has the right to pry further when he is spotted out with a man, leaving himself open to all sorts of gossip and he just wants to be accepted for who he is and not who the stereotype should be


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## JustOne (Feb 11, 2014)

I don't really care what other people choose to do with their genitals.

It's mine that count.



I don't really care who's company other people prefer.

It's who's company I am in that counts.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I don't really care what other people choose to do with their genitals.

It's mine that count.



I don't really care who's company other people prefer.

It's who's company I am in that counts.
		
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Whilst I agree that it shouldn't make a difference. I still think it will be awkward. I bet there are currently lots of nfl stars sayings it's great for the game, whilst secretly hoping he's not in their draft. As an aside, if sharing a locker room with someone's who's orientation is to find your sex be that gay or lesbian is ok. Why are all locker rooms split male/female? Surely if in today's day and age, men woman are expected to share lockers with men woman that could I theory find them attractive, why can't they share the same lockers?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2014)

cleanstrike said:



			No! The problem is that these people seem to be compelled to announce their sexuality to the world via the media. You don't get straight people broadcasting to the nation at the top of their voice that they prefer members of the opposite sex so why is it that gay people feel the need to tell everyone about their sexual preferences. I've narrowed it down to two possibilities; either they are seeking publicity or it's some strange form of perverse exhibitionism.
		
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You have dropped your club


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst I agree that it shouldn't make a difference. I still think it will be awkward. I bet there are currently lots of nfl stars sayings it's great for the game, whilst secretly hoping he's not in their draft. As an aside, if sharing a locker room with someone's who's orientation is to find your sex be that gay or lesbian is ok. Why are all locker rooms split male/female? Surely if in today's day and age, men woman are expected to share lockers with men woman that could I theory find them attractive, why can't they share the same lockers?
		
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Some places do have shared locker rooms and shared showers.

But ladies do like privacy - nothing to do with anything sexual at all.

We had a openly gay guy in our hockey team - no issues with him what so ever and he also didnt feel uncomfortable.

Until peoples choices are fully accepted then these issues will always happen


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some places do have shared locker rooms and shared showers.

But ladies do like privacy - nothing to do with anything sexual at all.

We had a openly gay guy in our hockey team - no issues with him what so ever and he also didnt feel uncomfortable.

Until peoples choices are fully accepted then these issues will always happen
		
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Ive worked in quite a few sport complexes and make female lockers are pretty same layout re individual changing room layout. So basically women prefer privacy re men who may find them attractive, surely the same right should be offered to starlight men. Surely we're either all just humans and therefor sexual orientation is irrelevant, or we should all have same choice to privacy without being branded homosexual?


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## cookelad (Feb 11, 2014)

Have been approached by a couple of gay men a few years back (check out my ego) and both times just told them that I wasn't gay and that was it, they didn't take it personally - certainly not as personally as I've taken female rejection over the years - and guess what we were still able to talk to each other as human beings!

At the end of the day what goes on between 2 (or more if that's what floats your boat) consenting adults behind closed doors is nobody else's business


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Ive worked in quite a few sport complexes and make female lockers are pretty same layout re individual changing room layout. So basically women prefer privacy re men who may find them attractive, *surely the same right should be offered to starlight men*. Surely we're either all just humans and therefor sexual orientation is irrelevant, or we should all have same choice to privacy without being branded homosexual?
		
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It is.... they don't have to share with straight women who might find them attractive......?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Ive worked in quite a few sport complexes and make female lockers are pretty same layout re individual changing room layout. So basically women prefer privacy re men who may find them attractive, surely the same right should be offered to starlight men. Surely we're either all just humans and therefor sexual orientation is irrelevant, or we should all have same choice to privacy without being branded homosexual?
		
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Would you like them to create gay changing rooms 

Females are normally shy people - they like there privacy 

It's nothing to do with any sexual orientation but historically gentleman have let ladies have their privacy 

Men aren't generally as shy - they don't mind getting changed and showered in front of men regardless of any sexuality 

If a man wants privacy then he finds a way


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would you like them to create gay changing rooms 

*Females are normally shy people - they like there privac*y 

It's nothing to do with any sexual orientation but historically gentleman have let ladies have their privacy 

Men aren't generally as shy - they don't mind getting changed and showered in front of men regardless of any sexuality 

If a man wants privacy then he finds a way[/QUOTE

we obviously know different woman then. As I know many just as brazen as most men. The point I'm making is that woman happily change in front of other women, just as men do. 

Historically gay gay people have been persecuted, but that's now being called to change (rightly so). 

I agree re fully that a persons sexuality should have no bearing on their treatment. I just think that at the sametime, people's opinion on whether they should have to use same facilities should be respected. I expect most men that wouldn't want to change in front of  gay men, aren't expecting to be hit on, but still feel uncomfortable, much they same as not all woman would be hit on if using same changing rooms. But they still feel uncomfortable so are respected?
		
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## Tashyboy (Feb 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst I agree that it shouldn't make a difference. I still think it will be awkward. I bet there are currently lots of nfl stars sayings it's great for the game, whilst secretly hoping he's not in their draft. As an aside, if sharing a locker room with someone's who's orientation is to find your sex be that gay or lesbian is ok. Why are all locker rooms split male/female? Surely if in today's day and age, men woman are expected to share lockers with men woman that could I theory find them attractive, why can't they share the same lockers?
		
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Papas to an extent yes I agree with you that it should not make a difference but what has not been said up to yet is that this NFL player in question is the mutts mutts, the gators Tatars, he does his business in the trenches and does it well, he batters quarterbacks, he was voted the best defensive end in the hardest leagues in the college football. He was voted players player in his team he is no 1 in his field  and in a business where the greenback is god and winning is everything he will be hot property when it comes to draft picks. So much so I have a feeling his sexual preferences will over shadow the no1 draft pick or heisman trophy winner which is a shame.

having said all that he is someone who you would want on your team and not playing against you. In his changing room he will get some stick but when he gets his first big hit in you wait and see the support he gets from his team mates and fans. Like wise he will get some stick in the line of scrimmage but the support he will get from his team mates may well spur them on.

hope to god he signs for the patriots.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			Papas to an extent yes I agree with you that it should not make a difference but what has not been said up to yet is that this NFL player in question is the mutts mutts, the gators Tatars, he does his business in the trenches and does it well, he batters quarterbacks, he was voted the best defensive end in the hardest leagues in the college football. He was voted players player in his team he is no 1 in his field  and in a business where the greenback is god and winning is everything he will be hot property when it comes to draft picks. So much so I have a feeling his sexual preferences will over shadow the no1 draft pick or heisman trophy winner which is a shame.

having said all that he is someone who you would want on your team and not playing against you. In his changing room he will get some stick but when he gets his first big hit in you wait and see the support he gets from his team mates and fans. Like wise he will get some stick in the line of scrimmage but the support he will get from his team mates may well spur them on.

hope to god he signs for the patriots.
		
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Not gonna profess to be a massive nfl fan, watch it occasionally whilst on nights. But the reports I read, said he would be 7th pick? Maybe I've misread. Him coming out, can only be a good thing. And hopefully more will follow. I just wonder, if people that are hid level profile wise still will feel the need to hide. Using footy as an example, if Ronaldo came out. Everybody would still sign him as he's world class, if joe blogs of Doncaster did, would he still be readily signed?


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## Tashyboy (Feb 11, 2014)

Joe blogs of Donny if he's a good defender David Moyes may be interested at Man Utd coz ave heard he's after ken. Barrows defensive team.

strange thing is that's this is more high profile than the day that the women's England football captain "came out ".


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## Papas1982 (Feb 11, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			Joe blogs of Donny if he's a good defender David Moyes may be interested at Man Utd coz ave heard he's after ken. Barrows defensive team.

strange thing is that's this is more high profile than the day that the women's England football captain "came out ".
		
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Unfortunalty homosexuality is still looked and completely differently depending of the sex of the said people involved. Especially I sport. Gay men can't play sport and only gay women play sport is the far to common opinion that can be overheard when the subjects are raised.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 11, 2014)

therod said:



			Re socket & hogan, I appreciate what you say, it is a generational thing, and maybe it's something else. Please don't think I'm having a go, because I'm not, but do you think your 'faith' is a barrier to acceptance ? (I think I recall you both being men of faith)

I'm genuinely interested in the answer
		
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I started to write an answer but decided against it.   I think if I was to state the reasons I feel as I do regarding homosexuality then some may find it offensive to them and I really don't want to cause offence.  If you are genuinely interested in my reasons then I will discuss via PM.


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## User20205 (Feb 11, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			I started to write an answer but decided against it.   I think if I was to state the reasons I feel as I do regarding homosexuality then some may find it offensive to them and I really don't want to cause offence.  If you are genuinely interested in my reasons then I will discuss via PM.
		
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I genuinely appreciate the reply from you and Hogan. I do understand. My parents are Church goers, and my Dad in particular sometimes, by his own admission, finds the modern world at odds with his faith. 

I'm not into castigating him for this (not all the time). I'm more into understanding how people approach the issue.


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## Ethan (Feb 11, 2014)

In_The_Rough said:



			We are on about same sex relationships here and sharing communal facilities. Totally irrelevant point.
		
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The point, which you may have missed, was that some people associate the gay community with promiscuity partly out if condemnation and partly because it suits their disapproving views.


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## Pathetic Shark (Feb 11, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			Papas to an extent yes I agree with you that it should not make a difference but what has not been said up to yet is that this NFL player in question is the mutts mutts, the gators Tatars, he does his business in the trenches and does it well, he batters quarterbacks, he was voted the best defensive end in the hardest leagues in the college football. He was voted players player in his team he is no 1 in his field  and in a business where the greenback is god and winning is everything he will be hot property when it comes to draft picks
		
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Sorry but Michael Sam is no better than a 4th round pick in the 2014 draft.  He is an under-sized rush end who would not project into the NFL at DE or OLB and many similar players have looked great in college but have underwhelmed in the pro game.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 11, 2014)

Rated as in or around the top ten defensive ends, who can and has switched to linebacker role thus showing versatility. If he had not switched to linebacker would his ratings of been higher. Come what may he is rated as a defensive player, depending which formation certain teams play.

just thought are these the first posts about this person discussing his ability and not his sexual preferences.


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## Slime (Feb 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don't know why anyone needs to make a big song & dance about their sexuality.
Attention seeking if IMO
		
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I can see the headlines already,

''*Pin-seeker* and *Slime* in thread post agreement shock'', 
who'd have thought that would ever happen?  :thup:

*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I don't know why anyone needs to make a big song & dance about their sexuality.
Attention seeking if IMO
		
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The attention they "seek" is to try and allow other gay sports people the courage to not be afraid of their choices

They aren't announcing their sexuality for any personal gain - it's to try and change people attitude towards gay athletes in a very masculine dominated sport world

They aren't "attention seekers" and they only feel the need to "announce" their sexuality because there are massive barriers still in front of them and a lack of acceptance of their choices

No current footballer is going to announce he is gay because he knows football fans around the country will ridicule him because he is gay.

It's a change in attitude that needs to change


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## Fader (Feb 11, 2014)

Tashyboy said:



			Papas to an extent yes I agree with you that it should not make a difference but what has not been said up to yet is that this NFL player in question is the mutts mutts, the gators Tatars, he does his business in the trenches and does it well, he batters quarterbacks, he was voted the best defensive end in the hardest leagues in the college football. He was voted players player in his team he is no 1 in his field  and in a business where the greenback is god and winning is everything he will be hot property when it comes to draft picks. So much so I have a feeling his sexual preferences will over shadow the no1 draft pick or heisman trophy winner which is a shame.

having said all that he is someone who you would want on your team and not playing against you. In his changing room he will get some stick but when he gets his first big hit in you wait and see the support he gets from his team mates and fans. Like wise he will get some stick in the line of scrimmage but the support he will get from his team mates may well spur them on.

hope to god he signs for the patriots.
		
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3rd round pick at best, there's other better players available in this draft that will be picked much earlier. He can do a job though and will be a decent 3rd round pick.


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 11, 2014)

Ethan said:



			The point, which you may have missed, was that some people associate the gay community with promiscuity partly out if condemnation and partly because it suits their disapproving views.
		
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Did not miss the point but just not the one I am trying to make. Anyway this thread is another that is going nowhere but round and round in circles so will leave it at that.


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## Foxholer (Feb 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The attention they "seek" is to try and allow other gay sports people the courage to not be afraid of their choices

They aren't announcing their sexuality for any personal gain - it's to try and change people attitude towards gay athletes in a very masculine dominated sport world

They aren't "attention seekers" and they only feel the need to "announce" their sexuality because there are massive barriers still in front of them and a lack of acceptance of their choices

No current footballer is going to announce he is gay because he knows football fans around the country will ridicule him because he is gay.

It's a change in attitude that needs to change
		
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Pretty much a Plus 1 for me!

I worked with 3 'openly' gay guys (supervising 1, though he was the 'team editor' so he edited my work) in the mid-late 70s. 3 completely different levels of open-ness  - semi closet; overtly camp; activist. There were never any tricky toilet moments, even with the homophobic attitude that was dominant at that time.

A little homophobia isn't necessarily a bad thing imo, as long as it's recognised who has the problem - and it doesn't turn into prejudice.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The attention they "seek" is to try and allow other gay sports people the courage to not be afraid of their choices

They aren't announcing their sexuality for any personal gain - it's to try and change people attitude towards gay athletes in a very masculine dominated sport world

They aren't "attention seekers" and they only feel the need to "announce" their sexuality because there are massive barriers still in front of them and a lack of acceptance of their choices

No current footballer is going to announce he is gay because he knows football fans around the country will ridicule him because he is gay.

It's a change in attitude that needs to change
		
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Think you'll find that a current footballers as announced he's gay
It was only my opinion,I never stated it was a fact:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Think you'll find that a current footballers as announced he's gay
It was only my opinion,I never stated it was a fact:thup:
		
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Which footballer is that ?

Hitzelsperger who has retired 

Robbie Rodgers who announced his retirement when announcing he was gay 

Or the guy playing semi pro in front off a couple hundred people in non league football ?

And I know it's your opinion - it was an opinion that appears to show a lack of understanding of why sports men and women announce their sexuality to people


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 12, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			A little homophobia isn't necessarily a bad thing imo, as long as it's recognised who has the problem - and it doesn't turn into prejudice.
		
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Not sure if I have misinterpreted that, but really


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which footballer is that ?

Hitzelsperger who has retired 

Robbie Rodgers who announced his retirement when announcing he was gay 

Or the guy playing semi pro in front off a couple hundred people in non league football ?

And I know it's your opinion - it was an opinion that appears to show a lack of understanding of why sports men and women announce their sexuality to people
		
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Yes it was the semi pro one,when you said footballer I thought you meant footballer,not high profile footballer
Sorry that my showed lack of understanding


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## Foxholer (Feb 12, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Not sure if I have misinterpreted that, but really

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H'mm. My blunder, for not keeping up with the changed/different meaning of 'Homophobia' - from my 40 year old one in a different country. I apologise! 

The original 'fear/dread of being in close quarters with homosexuals' was the meaning I was using. It appears to have morphed/changed to the much more sinister 'oppressive prejudice; hatred and intolerance' meaning, which was definitely not what I meant.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes it was the semi pro one,when you said footballer I thought you meant footballer,not high profile footballer
Sorry that my showed lack of understanding
		
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We'll I would hope most people would see the clear difference between Pro Footballers and non league footballers and the different pressures they would both face. Even then the guy playing semi pro gets homophobic taunts from the 50 odd people he plays in front ( if they even know who he is )

I know two international sportswomen who were a couple for nearly a decade - they came out together when they decided to get married - they didn't do it to gain any attention but to show other sports people that they shouldn't feel ashamed or hide their sexuality 

No pro footballer will "come out" until the football fans attitude changes


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## Stuey01 (Feb 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No pro footballer will "come out" until the football fans attitude changes
		
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The irony is that fans views are unlikely to change until high profile footballers start to come out. That's why it will be so hard for the first few who do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 12, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			The irony is that fans views are unlikely to change until high profile footballers start to come out. That's why it will be so hard for the first few who do.
		
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Only to read a few views in the thread to see why 

Fans are tribal - "real men " and they use anything to gain something over a player - it drips with masculinity 

Just read about the abuse Le Saux got just because they thought he was gay 

Times that by a hundred


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We'll I would hope most people would see the clear difference between Pro Footballers and non league footballers and the different pressures they would both face. Even then the guy playing semi pro gets homophobic taunts from the 50 odd people he plays in front ( if they even know who he is )

I know two international sportswomen who were a couple for nearly a decade - they came out together when they decided to get married - they didn't do it to gain any attention but to show other sports people that they shouldn't feel ashamed or hide their sexuality 

No pro footballer will "come out" until the football fans attitude changes
		
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No worries phil,like I said it was only my opinion. Don't let it bother you:thup:


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Tough one.

Sharing the same playing field, even in a contact sport, no problem.

Sharing a changing room with someone who doesn't find you sexually attractive is one thing but sharing it with someone who develops an erection as you walk past from the showers... sorry, but my stomach flips at the thought.
		
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hahaha, you obviously have a very high opinion of yourself. Would you be upset if they didn't get an erection as well?


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm sorry but that is rubbish. So your saying gay men don't find The likes of Beckham or Brad Pitt attractive?
		
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just because you find someone attractive doesn't really mean anything. 
Ask yourself - are you married or in a relationship? Do you find other people attractive? do you consider this to be a problem? do the people you find attractive consider this to be a problem? 
Are you trying to have sex with the people you find attractive? If yes, you are not a very nice person. If no, how is this any different to the example you are giving?


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## Papas1982 (Feb 12, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			just because you find someone attractive doesn't really mean anything. 
Ask yourself - are you married or in a relationship? Do you find other people attractive? do you consider this to be a problem? do the people you find attractive consider this to be a problem? 
Are you trying to have sex with the people you find attractive? If yes, you are not a very nice person. If no, how is this any different to the example you are giving?
		
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I don't think it's homophobic to not want to share a locker room. Woman don't want men in their locker room as they would fill uncomfortable, do to feeling like sexual objects. So do we change the rules and have it so that men can share lockers with ugly women, as they won't be found attractive so no need to worry?


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Why should sportsmen/womenhave to confirm their sexuality?
How does it make it better for the sport?

In fact why do people In general have to tell all in sundry their business?

 I think a lot of boils down to the way the majority of people broadcast their daily routines all over the web via social media etc and others who think it's perfectly fine to pass comment and or judgment on others.

Private life should remain exactly that.
		
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I think it is more important than that. I imagine that having gay icons will help anyone struggling with their own sexuality to come to terms with it as normal and nothing to be ashamed of. This could then help them to also come out openly to family and friends. 

The bigger issue is that it doesn't matter what other people think and people shouldn't be ashamed of being themselves.


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Doh said:



			You are what you are, how you are(as a person) is more important.To me anyway.
		
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Very well said Sir.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			just because you find someone attractive doesn't really mean anything. 
Ask yourself - are you married or in a relationship? Do you find other people attractive? do you consider this to be a problem? do the people you find attractive consider this to be a problem? 
Are you trying to have sex with the people you find attractive? If yes, you are not a very nice person. If no, how is this any different to the example you are giving?
		
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Personally I don't have a problem sharing a locker room with any one.
I'm pretty sure if I was in a locker room with attractive women they'd find it a bit strange  when they catch me staring.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2014)

Well I read just recently that, with most blokes when meeting or seeing a woman, the first thing that comes to mind is how good sex would be - are we not very shallow chaps - if it is true.  I don't know whether the same applies for gay guys - ooh.


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## Fader (Feb 12, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I read just recently that, with most blokes when meeting or seeing a woman, the first thing that comes to mind is how good sex would be - are we not very shallow chaps - if it is true.  I don't know whether the same applies for gay guys - ooh.
		
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If thats true then I need help, because the first thing I think when I meet some one is far removed from sex it's not even in my thought process at all.


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst I agree that it shouldn't make a difference. I still think it will be awkward. I bet there are currently lots of nfl stars sayings it's great for the game, whilst secretly hoping he's not in their draft. As an aside, if sharing a locker room with someone's who's orientation is to find your sex be that gay or lesbian is ok. Why are all locker rooms split male/female? Surely if in today's day and age, men woman are expected to share lockers with men woman that could I theory find them attractive, why can't they share the same lockers?
		
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Communal changing rooms would make a lot of people feel uncomfortable. They have them in Europe and that seems to work ok. But I can't see many people in the UK wanting to use them. If there is no demand, why create a supply?


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't think it's homophobic to not want to share a locker room. Woman don't want men in their locker room as they would fill uncomfortable, do to feeling like sexual objects. So do we change the rules and have it so that men can share lockers with ugly women, as they won't be found attractive so no need to worry?
		
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I can't profess to being an expert as to why women don't want men in their locker rooms but I imagine it is a bigger question over privacy and not because they don't want to be objectified. 
Not entirely sure if I see the sense in the rest of your response.


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Personally I don't have a problem sharing a locker room with any one.
I'm pretty sure if I was in a locker room with attractive women they'd find it a bit strange  when they catch me staring.
		
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the point I was making here was in relation to the orignal issue around men sharing changing areas with gay men. 
Not to do with men sharing changing rooms with women.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 12, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Communal changing rooms would make a lot of people feel uncomfortable. They have them in Europe and that seems to work ok. But I can't see many people in the UK wanting to use them. If there is no demand, why create a supply?
		
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IMO there aren't any as people f the opposite sex would feel awkward due to the sexual element that shared rooms could bring. This would be down to attraction and awkwardness due to it. So surely, homosexual men or women could bring that element into same sex rooms? I'm not saying that I believe gay people should be sent away to private rooms. I just believe that advocating seperate rooms doesn't make people homophobic.


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## Papas1982 (Feb 12, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			the point I was making here was in relation to the orignal issue around men sharing changing areas with gay men. 
Not to do with men sharing changing rooms with women.
		
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But I would argue that if men have a hang up with sharing rooms with homosexual men or women it would be because  of a sexual element. The same element that is behind single sex lockers in the first place.


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## londonlewis (Feb 12, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			IMO there aren't any as people f the opposite sex would feel awkward due to the sexual element that shared rooms could bring. This would be down to attraction and awkwardness due to it. So surely, homosexual men or women could bring that element into same sex rooms? I'm not saying that I believe gay people should be sent away to private rooms. I just believe that advocating seperate rooms doesn't make people homophobic.
		
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it sounds far too much like segregation to me. 
what if a gay man / woman doesn't want to have to use a separate changing room? 

I can't help but think that a lot of opinions in this forum is that gay people are some sort of sexual fiend who gets aroused any time they are near a naked person of the same gender. I'm pretty sure this opinion has been created by some very poor anti-gay propaganda.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 12, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			I can't profess to being an expert as to why women don't want men in their locker rooms but I imagine it is a bigger question over privacy and not because they don't want to be objectified.
		
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Men are smelly.....


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## Papas1982 (Feb 12, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			it sounds far too much like segregation to me. 
what if a gay man / woman doesn't want to have to use a separate changing room? 

I can't help but think that a lot of opinions in this forum is that gay people are some sort of sexual fiend who gets aroused any time they are near a naked person of the same gender. I'm pretty sure this opinion has been created by some very poor anti-gay propaganda.
		
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Thats a but far fetched, I've not heard anyone of hear even remotely criticise or condemn homosexuality. And obviously there are many gay people that get changed in lockers as they are. I just think it's very harsh for people to be called homophobic if they admit to feeling a by awkward re the situation.


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## Fader (Feb 12, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Men are smelly.....  

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This is true:ears:

However as for the point of segregation why should a gay man/woman ave seperate facilities to a straight one.. They are not ill, its not lepracy and you really can't catch being gay!

The segregation idea is so archaic its unreal. I gaurantee whenever you've used a communal dressing room at somepoint theres been a gay guy in there and he has paid you no attention whatsoever and you likewise didn't notice his state of undress. So whats the difference in being in a changing facility with someone thats gay and not knowing so just going about your business, and being in the same situation with the same person but knowing they're gay. Which means you would treat someone differently based on their sexual orientation!

They are still a man/woman and entitled to be treated equally as such some of the views i've seen on this here and on the NFL site are shocking


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 12, 2014)

Where do we stand on a straight man getting changed in a gay womens changing room?


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## Fader (Feb 12, 2014)

Fader said:



			This is true:ears:

However as for the point of segregation why should a gay man/woman ave seperate facilities to a straight one.. *They are ill*, its not lepracy and you really can't catch being gay!

The segregation idea is so archaic its unreal. I gaurantee whenever you've used a communal dressing room at somepoint theres been a gay guy in there and he has paid you no attention whatsoever and you likewise didn't notice his state of undress. So whats the difference in being in a changing facility with someone thats gay and not knowing so just going about your business, and being in the same situation with the same person but knowing they're gay. Which means you would treat someone differently based on their sexual orientation!

They are still a man/woman and entitled to be treated equally as such some of the views i've seen on this here and on the NFL site are shocking
		
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That should read not ill... Bloodu mobiles and small keys plus autocorrect doesn't help a healthy debate!


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## drawboy (Feb 12, 2014)

I have never slept with a gay man....I have slept with two that have though.


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## Ethan (Feb 12, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Where do we stand on a straight man getting changed in a gay womens changing room?
		
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Over by the door, I would think.


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## Ethan (Feb 12, 2014)

Fader said:



			That should read not ill... Bloodu mobiles and small keys plus autocorrect doesn't help a healthy debate!
		
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Edited for you. I left the spelling mistakes though. You're on your own there.


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## User20205 (Feb 12, 2014)

Fader said:



			They are still a man/woman and entitled to be treated equally as such some of the views i've seen on this here and on the NFL site are shocking
		
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too true, to assume there is a blanket attraction is about as enlightened as the Islamic view on women!


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 12, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Men are smelly.....  

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Some women aren't too fresh smelling either


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## User20205 (Feb 13, 2014)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Olc5C4...top_uri=/watch?v=Olc5C4SXAYM&feature=youtu.be

:thup:


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