# Alps Plane Crash



## Fish (Mar 24, 2015)

Terrible news that an Airbus carry 148 passengers plus crew has come down in a remote area of the French Alps after leaving Barcelona flying to DÃ¼sseldorf.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/32030778


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## Rooter (Mar 24, 2015)

Wow. unbelievable. Hope they manage to find some survivors, but seriously doubt it. Have flown with these guys before, they are the no frills arm of Lufthansa. thoughts are with the families of those missing. Being a very frequent flyer around europe, you just dont expect this these days.


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## SugarPenguin (Mar 24, 2015)

terrible news. Happening too often at the moment. It really is not acceptable


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 24, 2015)

Awful news - hope they find survivors but sadly seems unlikely


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## Snelly (Mar 24, 2015)

Tragic. 

Not massively enthused at the prospect of getting on an A320 tomorrow at 8am now either.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 24, 2015)

Just heard about this on the news , absolutely tragic.


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## JackieD (Mar 24, 2015)

Mornic reporting by the BBC;

"what do you think went through the captains head as the plane crashed?"


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## chrisd (Mar 24, 2015)

Having flown from Barcelona on an Airbus on Saturday it does make you think.......


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## Grogger (Mar 24, 2015)

JackieD said:



			Mornic reporting by the BBC;

"what do you think went through the captains head as the plane crashed?"
		
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They seriously asked that question?!?!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 24, 2015)

I see the OP has been blackballed again, now what has he done??


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I see the OP has been blackballed again, now what has he done??
		
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How do you know if someone has been black balled?


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## chrisd (Mar 24, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			How do you know if someone has been black balled?
		
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It says so just under his name


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 24, 2015)

Look next to his name at the top of this thread, says it there. I reckon he is trying to get out of a losing HFH bet


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 24, 2015)

Doesn't show up on the Kindle. It just has his name like usual. Did notice his profile pic had gone though.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 24, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Tragic. 

Not massively enthused at the prospect of getting on an A320 tomorrow at 8am now either.
		
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Airbus technical accidents so damn rare that I expect you'll never be safer flying in one tomorrow.


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## chrisd (Mar 24, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Did notice his profile pic had gone though.
		
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That's no bad thing though, I kept a copy on the mantelpiece to keep the kids away from the fire!


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## Beezerk (Mar 24, 2015)

Terrible accident, the missus worked for a summer in Barcelonette near where the plane came down and she says it's absolutely stunning, just mountains with the odd lake.
Strange how the pilot didn't send out a message prior to the crash, or at least that is what's been reported.


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## Break90 (Mar 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Airbus technical accidents so damn rare that I expect you'll never be safer flying in one tomorrow.
		
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Stat on sky news today that an A320 either takes off or touches down EVERY 2 SECONDS somewhere in the world, and that there have been 11 reported fatal incidents involving A320 aircraft.


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## ScienceBoy (Mar 24, 2015)

Break90 said:



			Stat on sky news today that an A320 either takes off or touches down EVERY 2 SECONDS somewhere in the world, and that there have been 11 reported fatal incidents involving A320 aircraft.
		
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The old adage of "The more its reported on the news the less frequent it actually happens" being true never takes away from the pain the loss of a loved one or someone you know.

The facts are flying is far safer than getting on a bike or in a car but I still feel for the people involved, having never known loss under circumstances like that I cannot imagine how they feel or anyone feels at times like that.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 24, 2015)

ScienceBoy said:



			The old adage of "The more its reported on the news the less frequent it actually happens" being true never takes away from the pain the loss of a loved one or someone you know.

The facts are flying is far safer than getting on a bike or in a car but I still feel for the people involved, having never known loss under circumstances like that I cannot imagine how they feel or anyone feels at times like that.
		
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Statistically you're absolutely right; logically there's a sense of survivability in car or bike crashes that doesn't seem to apply to plane crashes so they just feel worse, despite being statistically less likely.


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## chrisd (Mar 24, 2015)

I felt quite sick watching the reporter at Barcelona airport after walking through there on Saturday


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## garyinderry (Mar 25, 2015)

In the alps skiing at the min.  Earlier in the week I have been making some comments about how lucky we are to doing what we are doing when you think how much poverty there is. Only worry is the hangover and how good the piste and is. 

This news is crazy. Anyone could be on that plane. Just a lottery where it took off and was going.    

Rest in peace.


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## Qwerty (Mar 25, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			In the alps skiing at the min.
		
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You must be a good skier Gaz if you can type at the same time


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## garyinderry (Mar 25, 2015)

I am brutal.  2nd time and not great at turning right to left. Lots if nice people about giving me my skis back.   

Avoiding black runs like the plague.


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## Beezerk (Mar 26, 2015)

Doesn't look good, one of the pilots locked out of the cabin by the sounds of it!


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## Lincoln Quaker (Mar 26, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			Doesn't look good, one of the pilots locked out of the cabin by the sounds of it!
		
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Not good if that's the case, There must a back up plan if one goes to the loo and comes back and cant get in, I know the security has been strengthened since 9/11 but to have only one lock is very strange,


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 26, 2015)

it appears the lock can only be deactivated from inside and its looking more and more likely this is the case, all so very sad.


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## CMAC (Mar 26, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			Doesn't look good, one of the pilots locked out of the cabin by the sounds of it!
		
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I heard that this morning, makes it sound more deliberate now, or did the pilot have a heart attack as it took 8 mins of descent before the crash, or poison or, or......

After 911 these doors were made to resist outside force. After this new incident is there credence in establishing an override signal code that could be sent from air traffic control to unlock the door for just such a situation.

It's horrendous whatever they establish as the cause.


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## KhalJimbo (Mar 26, 2015)

On Sky News they're saying that the co pilot appears to have crashed the plane deliberately.


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## Beezerk (Mar 26, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			On Sky News they're saying that the co pilot appears to have crashed the plane deliberately.
		
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Same here...https://uk.news.yahoo.com/alps-co-pilot-crashed-deliberately-prosecutor-115413719.html#Bwdkvxi

Copycat of the Malaysia thing by the looks of it.


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## matt71 (Mar 26, 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

Why would you do this ?


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## KhalJimbo (Mar 26, 2015)

matt71 said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587

Why would you do this ?
		
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It is sad for the passengers and their families and I do sympathize for them, but my guess is if not terrorism, the most likely other cause is a way out of mounting financial pressure or something similar


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 26, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			It is sad for the passengers and their families and I do sympathize for them, but my guess is if not terrorism, the most likely other cause is a way out of mounting financial pressure or something similar
		
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So why not just jump off a bridge?


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## matt71 (Mar 26, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			So why not just jump off a bridge?
		
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#

I agree what gives him the right to kill 150 people at the same time? Really I am shocked that someone has done this and its not for terrorism reasons either !


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2015)

Very sad news and awful to hear that its not an accident.


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## Khamelion (Mar 26, 2015)

Watching one of the why planes crash documentaries on discovery, they went through the whole diagnosis to fill an hour program, but in the end the conclusion on the programme was that the pilot had amounted a lot of debt, was depressed and committed suicide and well murder by purposely crashing the plane he was flying.

Not knowing the full circumstances of the German plane crash, but suicide by crashing your plane has been known to happen in the past.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 26, 2015)

This is quite interesting, particularly the last screen on the video;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32073318

Mrs BiM said they reported on the news this morning that one of the exchange students forgot their passport, made a mad dash to get it and was unfortunately successful in getting back in time.


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## SaintHacker (Mar 26, 2015)

CMAC said:



			I heard that this morning, makes it sound more deliberate now, or did the pilot have a heart attack as it took 8 mins of descent before the crash, or poison or, or......

After 911 these doors were made to resist outside force. After this new incident is there credence in establishing an override signal code that could be sent from air traffic control to unlock the door for just such a situation.

It's horrendous whatever they establish as the cause.
		
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Normal practice is that when a pilot needs to leave the flight deck he/she is replaced by a flight attendant, in case anything does happen to the remaining pilot. 
This certainly sounds like foul play. ASsuming there was just the one pilot on the FD if he had taken ill the plane would have just carried on at cruise altitude until it ran out of fuel. For it to descend like it did someone had to reset the flight computers manually. Absolutely awful, if you're going to off yourself, why kill so many innocent people


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## richart (Mar 26, 2015)

SaintHacker said:



			Normal practice is that when a pilot needs to leave the flight deck he/she is replaced by a flight attendant, in case anything does happen to the remaining pilot.
		
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 That happens on US flights, but not sure it is general practice elsewhere. Certainly not with Lufthansa.

I imagine new regulations will now be introduced. Unfortunately this is not the first time an airline has been deliberately crashed by a pilot.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 26, 2015)

I believe many (if not all) of us tread a pretty fine line between our sanity and madness and despair.  And if something tips you over - and that may be something that has been completely hidden from others and that you have completely kept to yourself - possibly all of your life - you could just go...and norms of behaviour vanish


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## SaintHacker (Mar 26, 2015)

My mistake. I assumed it was such a common sense thng that all airlines would have followed the US lead.
Interestingly on a recent holiday flight with a British airline I was in the queue for the forawd toilets when the cockpit door opened, out came the first officer who politely asked if he could jump the queue. The door stayed open the whole time, there was a flight attendant stood in the open door chatting to the Captain but that was it.


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## richy (Mar 26, 2015)

Truly shocking. 

I wonder if they'll ever find his motives for doing this


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 26, 2015)

richy said:



			Truly shocking. 

I wonder if they'll ever find his motives for doing this
		
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Maybe the only motive he had was to end his own life,but he was so selfish & sick in the head that he killed all the innocent passengers with him. 
Sickens me when I think about it.


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## Martin70 (Mar 26, 2015)

Just awful. How can you do this to other innocent people if you want to end your own life? Is this the new form of terrorism or one man who has flipped out? Is this related to the missing plane last year?

In any case truly awful rip to all.


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## Matty2803 (Mar 26, 2015)

Not great at all.  Awful stuff.  

Regarding the two in the flight deck... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32075657


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

Very sad that he had to take so many innocent lives with him


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## Lincoln Quaker (Mar 26, 2015)

Matty2803 said:



			Not great at all.  Awful stuff.  

Regarding the two in the flight deck... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32075657

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I suspect most airlines will do this within the next few months, media pressure will be immense if they don't.

The co pilot set the autopiltot from 38,000ft to 100ft, I had hoped something had gone wrong and it was just an accident but it looks more deliberate by the minute.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2015)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			I suspect most airlines will do this within the next few months, media pressure will be immense if they don't.

The co pilot set the autopiltot from 38,000ft to 100ft, I had hoped something had gone wrong and it was just an accident but it looks more deliberate by the minute.
		
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That's a severe decent - would hope that the passengers passed out during the decent but I don't think they would have 

I just hope it wasn't something that could have been picked up by his work colleagues or during regular medical checks ( depression etc )


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## richy (Mar 26, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's a severe decent - would hope that the passengers passed out during the decent but I don't think they would have 

I just hope it wasn't something that could have been picked up by his work colleagues or during regular medical checks ( depression etc )
		
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Pretty sure that the recorder picked up the passengers screaming before impact. 

Horrible to think what they went through.


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## Martin70 (Mar 26, 2015)

Always been nervous about flying but you are on this planet a very miniscule time so I think it is better to go for a holiday rather than let it stop you for any other nervous fliers. This is in no way belittling people like me but what's the point In just existing and not seeing places? I don't enjoy flying but take comfort in the studies that say it's one in 5 million you get trouble.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Mar 26, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's a severe decent - would hope that the passengers passed out during the decent but I don't think they would have 

I just hope it wasn't something that could have been picked up by his work colleagues or during regular medical checks ( depression etc )
		
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It's descent rate on autopilot is 4000ft per minute which is the same as a normal descent into an airport,

the reports are that on the flight recorder the passengers only started screaming when they realised they was going to crash a minute before the accident, what a crap way too go!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

Looks like there is already a change to flight deck protocol http://news.sky.com/story/1453092/alps-crash-co-pilot-wanted-to-destroy-plane


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2015)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			It's descent rate on autopilot is 4000ft per minute which is the same as a normal descent into an airport,

the reports are that on the flight recorder the passengers only started screaming when they realised they was going to crash a minute before the accident, what a crap way too go!
		
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Ah right thought it was a sharp decent straight down 

Awful way to go - seen the aftermath of a small plane crash and it's not nice - just can't imagine what it would be like with a passenger airliner


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			It's descent rate on autopilot is 4000ft per minute which is the same as a normal descent into an airport,

the reports are that on the flight recorder the passengers only started screaming when they realised they was going to crash a minute before the accident, what a crap way too go!
		
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Indeed. screams only heard at the very end of the audio recording.


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## Robobum (Mar 26, 2015)

I know full details haven't been released yet but, considering it would have been approx 10 mins from cruise to impact - you'd expect that the captain would have been trying to kick the door in. The release so far just says that captains voice could be heard at the door.

So sad - in a perverse way, I hope (wrong word) it was a personal issue and not down to him being in anyway radicalised by any terrorist group.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			I know full details haven't been released yet but, considering it would have been approx 10 mins from cruise to impact - you'd expect that the captain would have been trying to kick the door in. The release so far just says that captains voice could be heard at the door.

So sad - in a perverse way, I hope (wrong word) it was a personal issue and not down to him being in anyway radicalised by any terrorist group.
		
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There doesn't seem to be too much focus on a terrorist angle so far from what has been released about the co-pilot which I think is a good thing but I agree that you'd have thought the captain would have made a bigger effort to gain access. I'm not sure how these work in the wake of 9/11 and how accessible there are externally but there has to be some way they could get access if necessary


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## ger147 (Mar 26, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			There doesn't seem to be too much focus on a terrorist angle so far from what has been released about the co-pilot which I think is a good thing but I agree that you'd have thought the captain would have made a bigger effort to gain access. I'm not sure how these work in the wake of 9/11 and how accessible there are externally but there has to be some way they could get access if necessary
		
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Not a hope of getting into a locked cockpit these days without explosives.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			I know full details haven't been released yet but, considering it would have been approx 10 mins from cruise to impact - you'd expect that the captain would have been trying to kick the door in. The release so far just says that captains voice could be heard at the door.

So sad - in a perverse way, I hope (wrong word) it was a personal issue and not down to him being in anyway radicalised by any terrorist group.
		
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They made doors virtually impregnable after 9/11 but think ( could be wrong ) that new Airbus have emergency keep alive locks etc 

Not sure what the pilot could have done without drawing attention but would have been hard for him not to go mental at the door


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 26, 2015)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			I suspect most airlines will do this within the next few months, media pressure will be immense if they don't.

The co pilot set the autopiltot from 38,000ft to 100ft, I had hoped something had gone wrong and it was just an accident but it looks more deliberate by the minute.
		
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I suppose we should be grateful, if that's the right word in the circumstances, that the crash occurred where it did and didn't cause further casualties on the ground if that is what he did.

What does surprise me is that you could set the cruise control to an altitude that low without setting off some alarm signal, or maybe there is?



Robobum said:



			I know full details haven't been released yet but, considering it would have been approx 10 mins from cruise to impact - you'd expect that the captain would have been trying to kick the door in. The release so far just says that captains voice could be heard at the door.

So sad - in a perverse way, I hope (wrong word) it was a personal issue and not down to him being in anyway radicalised by any terrorist group.
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			There doesn't seem to be too much focus on a terrorist angle so far from what has been released about the co-pilot which I think is a good thing but I agree that you'd have thought the captain would have made a bigger effort to gain access. I'm not sure how these work in the wake of 9/11 and how accessible there are externally but there has to be some way they could get access if necessary
		
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I wonder how much the Captain's actions were based in trying not to panic the passengers.

As far as overriding the door lock, judging by the video link I posted earlier that gives all the control to whoever is in the cockpit; ideal for the terrorist issue but useless against "the enemy within".

I thought pilots were subject to strict psychometric testing, surprised that didn't pick anything up unless that comes out further down the line.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Mar 26, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			There doesn't seem to be too much focus on a terrorist angle so far from what has been released about the co-pilot which I think is a good thing but I agree that you'd have thought the captain would have made a bigger effort to gain access. I'm not sure how these work in the wake of 9/11 and how accessible there are externally but there has to be some way they could get access if necessary
		
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Not a chance of getting access if the master switch in the flighdeck has been switched to door locked and the lock on the outside becomes worthless, the door is bullet proof after 9/11, the flight crew have full control up front


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			I suppose we should be grateful, if that's the right word in the circumstances, that the crash occurred where it did and didn't cause further casualties on the ground if that is what he did.

What does surprise me is that you could set the cruise control to an altitude that low without setting off some alarm signal, or maybe there is?





I wonder how much the Captain's actions were based in trying not to panic the passengers.

As far as overriding the door lock, judging by the video link I posted earlier that gives all the control to whoever is in the cockpit; ideal for the terrorist issue but useless against "the enemy within".

*I thought pilots were subject to strict psychometric testing, surprised that didn't pick anything up unless that comes out further down the line.*

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My mate flies for BA and they are strictly medically tested regualry - can't even fly with a cold. 

If he was suffering any mental illness im guessing that it's easy to hide ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 26, 2015)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Not a chance of getting access if the master switch in the flighdeck has been switched to door locked and the lock on the outside becomes worthless, the door is bullet proof after 9/11, the flight crew have full control up front
		
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I thought that had tobe the case or it would still give terrorists an "in". I wonder how long he'd been waiting for the right moment. Was it just on this flight or had he wanted to do it for a while and never had a chance. It clearly could have been even worse (not that it isn't tragic enough)


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## williamalex1 (Mar 26, 2015)

This unexplained type of air incident is happening far to often IMHO , too many for my liking :angry:.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 26, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			This unexplained type of air incident is happening far to often IMHO , too many for my liking :angry:.
		
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It's looking like this incident is going to be explained - the motives will be unknown I guess


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## williamalex1 (Mar 26, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's looking like this incident is going to be explained - the motives will be unknown I guess
		
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Hopefully the WHY will be explained. 

To me it seems tooooo similar to the missing ML 370 flight.


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## Billythefish (Mar 26, 2015)

If he has done it on purpose, I don't care what illness he had or what motive he had, I hope he burns in hell.


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## richy (Mar 27, 2015)

Police saying they have made a "significant discovery" while searching his home. 

Wonder what that could be?


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## Martin70 (Mar 27, 2015)

Reports of previous depression


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 27, 2015)

Billythefish said:



			If he has done it on purpose, I don't care what illness he had or what motive he had, I hope he burns in hell.
		
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Which I might suggest is a rather harsh stance when the guy may clearly have suffered severe mental issues that he has kept hidden and has had a nervous breakdown of some form.  And when you 'flip' it is not difficult to imagine that your world closes right in on you and there is nothing out there - nothing at all


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## SaintHacker (Mar 27, 2015)

Apparentyl they have found a torn up doctors note signing him off work. Signed on the morning of the flight


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 27, 2015)

SaintHacker said:



			Apparentyl they have found a torn up doctors note signing him off work. Signed on the morning of the flight

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that's not good...a 28yr old guy feeling a failure...


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

SaintHacker said:



			Apparentyl they have found a torn up doctors note signing him off work. Signed on the morning of the flight

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Very sad if true that it got that bad for him that it drove him to such devastating actions.


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## c1973 (Mar 27, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			that's not good...a 28yr old guy feeling a failure...
		
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Indeed. 
Unfortunately all to common amongst men in their 20s (in this country at least) and too often ignored and not taken seriously, imo, until it ends in tragedy (although nowhere near the scale of the tragedy that has taken place here).


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## Maninblack4612 (Mar 31, 2015)

The law on patient confidentiality probably works the same here too. Funny that, if your eyesight is too bad, your optician is legally obliged to report the fact to the DVLA. If the hospital is treating you for suicidal tendencies & know you're a pilot they're not allowed to say anything.


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