# Texting thread



## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 22, 2014)

Why was it closed? There was a very pertinent debate taking place.

Mods getting overzealous again?


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## DCB (Jul 22, 2014)

Just come across this post and the question and after reading the later exchanges in the original thread I'd have thought it was obvious as to why it was closed. IMO It wasn't going to end well if it had been left to run any further.

The thread had been previously reported and action was taken.


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## woody69 (Jul 23, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Why was it closed? There was a very pertinent debate taking place.

Mods getting overzealous again?
		
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Because a debate / discussion doesn't have to descend into people calling each other muppets / idiots etc because they believe what that person is doing is reckless and something they don't agree with. When it does it ceases to become a debate.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 23, 2014)

I opened the post as I read an article that made me think about this and how dangerous it can be given that it is unnecessary.  So I thought I'd stimulate thinking in forum members so that any folk that may occasionally have sent a text whilst driving would read and think again - especially as I was pretty certain that the vast majority of forumers would be aghast at the idea of doing it.  

In fact I guess my post successfully raised awareness of what the widespread view is so that the activity is understood by all to be unacceptable - and so it is one of these things that we just don't do.  And those who do will know that the bulk of opinion is not very supportive and they won't get much sympathy if and when they are done.

But no need to get nasty with folks.  Anyway.  Out.


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## woody69 (Jul 23, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I opened the post as I read an article that made me think about this and how dangerous it can be given that it is unnecessary. So I thought I'd stimulate thinking in forum members so that any folk that may occasionally have sent a text whilst driving would read and think again - especially as I was pretty certain that the vast majority of forumers would be aghast at the idea of doing it. 

In fact I guess my post successfully raised awareness of what the widespread view is so that the activity is understood by all to be unacceptable - and so it is one of these things that we just don't do. And those who do will know that the bulk of opinion is not very supportive and they won't get much sympathy if and when they are done.

But no need to get nasty with folks. Anyway. Out.
		
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Indeed, but let's face it there are lots of unnecessary activites that are done when behind the wheel and all have the potential to be dangerous.

Still, I admitted I occassionally send a text whilst driving. Did it last night in fact, but I wasn't looking for validation, acceptance or sympathy for my actions. Just being honest. I fully appreciate some people think it is stupid and dangerous and say they don't do it themselves, but as I said, verbally abusing someone isn't particularly constructive and you can't really expect debate to continue when it descends into a slanging match.


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## JustOne (Jul 23, 2014)

In my opinion
1) Using your phone whilst driving - not a risk at all
2) Not being able to multitask = MASSIVE RISK

In summary, if you can't multitask then don't use your phone when driving! As it happens many, many  people have trouble driving properly *without* a phone in their hands!!


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 23, 2014)

JustOne said:



			In my opinion
1) Using your phone whilst driving - not a risk at all
2) Not being able to multitask = MASSIVE RISK

In summary, if you can't multitask then don't use your phone when driving! As it happens many, many  people have trouble driving properly *without* a phone in their hands!!
		
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No such thing as multitasking, just doing lots of things badly at the same time!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 23, 2014)

Did anyone see Panorama on Monday night? It was about this very subject, the dangers of distraction with scientific evidence to back up the claims that people are NOT capable of concentrating fully on driving whilst trying to do other tasks.

If people think they are capable that's fine but be prepared to suffer the consequences.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 23, 2014)

Strangely enough I was thinking about this on my way home last night while changing the temperature on the climate control. I was a racing driver/race director/ race driver coach for 14 years and I am absolutely hopeless at driving and doing another task at the same time that involves my eyes not being on the road. However, consider myself the next world champion if you let me see what I am doing....


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## North Mimms (Jul 23, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Indeed, but let's face it there are lots of unnecessary activites that are done when behind the wheel and all have the potential to be dangerous.

Still, I admitted I occassionally send a text whilst driving. Did it last night in fact, but I wasn't looking for validation, acceptance or sympathy for my actions. Just being honest. I fully appreciate some people think it is stupid and dangerous and say they don't do it themselves, but as I said, verbally abusing someone isn't particularly constructive and you can't really expect debate to continue when it descends into a slanging match.
		
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I'm sorry that you felt the term muppet amounted to verbal abuse- it's what I call myself when I miss a putt.:mmm:
What I mutter under my breath when I see people texting and driving is a lot worse, but I wouldn't dare write the word on this forum!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 23, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			No such thing as multitasking, just doing lots of things badly at the same time!
		
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Obviously you can't multitask


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 23, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			I was a racing driver/race director/ race driver coach for 14 years .
		
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Ah that explains the white knuckle ride to Blackmoor for the 2012 H4H day


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 23, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Strangely enough I was thinking about this on my way home last night while changing the temperature on the climate control. I was a racing driver/race director/ race driver coach for 14 years and I am absolutely hopeless at driving and doing another task at the same time that involves my eyes not being on the road. However, consider myself the next world champion if you let me see what I am doing....
		
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As humans our levels of concentration aren't the greatest - our minds easily wander off from what they should be focusing on - trying to do two things at once  IMO will mean you do both at a lower standard than if you did them separately


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 23, 2014)

People who text whilst driving fit into the same gene pool as people who let their dogs poo on a football park, drive at 50 mph in a 30 mph area, throw their empty Big Mac packaging out of the car window.....I could go on....... and on


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## North Mimms (Jul 23, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			People who text whilst driving fit into the same gene pool as people who let their dogs poo on a football park, drive at 50 mph in a 30 mph area, throw their empty Big Mac packaging out of the car window.....I could go on....... and on
		
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Now THAT'S multitasking!


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## richart (Jul 23, 2014)

It never really occurred to me that someone would text whilst driving. Perhaps those that use their phones would like to speak to families of innocent people that have lost their lives, because it is so important that someone sends a text, or makes a call.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

richart said:



			It never really occurred to me that someone would text whilst driving. Perhaps those that use their phones would like to speak to families of innocent people that have lost their lives, because it is so important that someone sends a text, or makes a call.
		
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Sounds like a good idea. Where can I sign up?


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## MegaSteve (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			but as I said, verbally abusing someone isn't particularly constructive and you can't really expect debate to continue when it descends into a slanging match.
		
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Expressing an opinion on a forum is [seemingly] an invitation to be 'labelled' ...


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## Fyldewhite (Jul 24, 2014)

Oh no, here we go again. The debate had moved on from the simple texting while driving question.
My take on it was that Woody said (honestly) that he SOMETIMES does this when on a straight road etc with minimal risk which he would fully consider before doing it and would never advocate doing it in traffic etc. We all agree it IS distracting and it DOES increase the risk. Despite being illegal, MOST drivers make similar decisions every day like deciding to do 80mph or more on a quiet motorway. I was defending Woody's view not because it's OK to text but because he was being pilloried for being honest on the subject by the "never break the law - ever" brigade when what he was actually saying he did (as opposed to what people think he said), despite being illegal would involve negligible extra risk.
Right, just got that in before the mods delete this one too!!


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 24, 2014)

certainly going the same direction as the first thread


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

Texting? surely you are all snapchatting or something else these days.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Ah that explains the white knuckle ride to Blackmoor for the 2012 H4H day  

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That was me being considerate.... 

Didnt we sit in traffic most of the way... And I am sure you egged me on to beat Ian there!


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## CMAC (Jul 24, 2014)

Thought this was a crass piece of US Billboard advertising


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Thought this was a crass piece of US Billboard advertising

View attachment 11595

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er..it's fake...


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Sounds like a good idea. Where can I sign up?
		
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PhilTheFragger said:



			certainly going the same direction as the first thread 

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Sadly it is Phil which is a pity because I have a genuine interest in peoples attitudes to this seeing as I drive 60 miles a day on dual carriageways and motorways. With the flippant attitude shown by woody's comment above I seriously fear for my safety


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## CMAC (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			er..it's fake...
		
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er...you must be a hoot at parties


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Sadly it is Phil which is a pity because I have a genuine interest in peoples attitudes to this seeing as I drive 60 miles a day on dual carriageways and motorways. With the flippant attitude shown by woody's comment above I seriously fear for my safety  

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This doesn't make sense to me. From the drivers you currently see on the road, do you fear for your own safety? If no, it may be reasonable to assume some of them are texting, and if you can't tell this from the way they drive, there isn't much to fear.

I wouldn't get scared of the roads because of some talk on the internet. I'm much for fearful for my safety on the roads having seen the general ability of drivers, and how distracted they get. Having seen many parents being distracted by kids in the car, this would scare me more (legality ignored)


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Sadly it is Phil which is a pity because I have a genuine interest in peoples attitudes to this seeing as I drive 60 miles a day on dual carriageways and motorways. With the flippant attitude shown by woody's comment above I seriously fear for my safety 

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It was a flippant comment in response to a nonsense post (IMVHO). Just because I OCCASIONALLY send a text whilst I am driving, doesn't mean I need to meet with families of people killed on the road because of someone using their phone. I am fully aware of the risks, and as I have said time and time again I am happy to take it and can appreciate the potential consequences if something does go wrong. The same way I am happy to take a risk simply getting in the car to drive to work, or occasionally speeding, or overtaking someone, or eating a sandwich or taking a sip from a drink all whilst in the car.


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## North Mimms (Jul 24, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			This doesn't make sense to me. From the drivers you currently see on the road, do you fear for your own safety? *If no, it may be reasonable to assume some of them are texting, and if you can't tell this from the way they drive, there isn't much to fear.*

I wouldn't get scared of the roads because of some talk on the internet. I'm much for fearful for my safety on the roads having seen the general ability of drivers, and how distracted they get. Having seen many parents being distracted by kids in the car, this would scare me more (legality ignored)
		
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Last week I was a passenger as my husband drove a third of the way round the M25 in heavy but moving traffic.
We drove alongside a bloke who had his phone in his hand , thumbing away, for the best part of 15 miles.
I saw at least 4 other people using phones in a similar fashion- they might have been texting, reading texts or looking at kittens on skateboards on Youtube- whatever... it wasn't a good idea.

So loads of people do it.

And Loads of people shouldn't.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			Oh no, here we go again. The debate had moved on from the simple texting while driving question.
My take on it was that Woody said (honestly) that he SOMETIMES does this when on a straight road etc with minimal risk which he would fully consider before doing it and would never advocate doing it in traffic etc. We all agree it IS distracting and it DOES increase the risk. Despite being illegal, MOST drivers make similar decisions every day like deciding to do 80mph or more on a quiet motorway. I was defending Woody's view not because it's OK to text but because he was being pilloried for being honest on the subject by the "never break the law - ever" brigade when what he was actually saying he did (as opposed to what people think he said), despite being illegal would involve negligible extra risk.
Right, just got that in before the mods delete this one too!! 

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Succinctly put, thank you.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 24, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Last week I was a passenger as my husband drove a third of the way round the M25 in heavy but moving traffic.
We drove alongside a bloke who had his phone in his hand , thumbing away, for the best part of 15 miles.
I saw at least 4 other people using phones in a similar fashion- they might have been texting, reading texts or looking at kittens on skateboards on Youtube- whatever... it wasn't a good idea.

So loads of people do it.

And Loads of people shouldn't.
		
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Not disagreeing with you their NM. My point was purely in respect of d4s "fearing for his/her safety". I was just pointing out that if d4s didn't fear for it before from what they had seen, don't change that based on a single comment on an online forum.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

CMAC said:



			er...you must be a hoot at parties

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Try posting something funny then.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2014)

As I posted in the original thread, having had a parent that knocked over and seriously injured a kid, many years before mobiles, I know how the guilt of a moments lapse of concentration and the consequences can weigh extremely heavy. It's only once an accident occurs and that the driver has to live with the same guilt that the foolishness of the act (texting) will become abundantly clear. That's the same for drink drivers too. Both are illegal and I'd love to see the penalties for each made far harsher. Bans are often flaunted and fines are not always sufficient. I think there has to be more options open to prosecute and make a real statement to any drivers caught breaking the law


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## CMAC (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Try posting something funny then.
		
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I'll leave that to you and your fabulous posts


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## MegaSteve (Jul 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think there has to be more options open to prosecute and make a real statement to any drivers caught breaking the law
		
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To help in relieving the massive overcrowding, on the roads, loss of licence for every 'nick' would be a good step forward ...


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

It's really sad that a few people on here really don't understand how dangerous their actions are. 

So you are driving along, nice big gap to the car in front, pull out your phone to send a text. Slight lapse in concentration and you veer slightly to your right which causes the guy overtaking you in the outside lane to end up in the central reservation. Several cars then pile into him. 

But's it's OK, your wife knows you are on your way home and dinner will be on the table when you arrive so happy days.

Excellent 'calculated risk'  :thup:


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## chris661 (Jul 24, 2014)

CMAC said:



			er...you must be a hoot at parties

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guest100718 said:



			Try posting something funny then.
		
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CMAC said:



			I'll leave that to you and your fabulous posts
		
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You see this is the sort of crap that results in threads being closed and infractions being issued. Enough is enough please.


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## Imurg (Jul 24, 2014)

It's obviously a risk even getting out of bed in the morning let alone driving down the M1 sending a text.
Surely, as drivers, we should be looking to minimise the risks we take?
Leaving aside the legality for a moment, driving at 80 on a clear motorway is a relatively small increased risk from driving at 70 - bearing in mind that of your speedo reads 80 you're probably doing less than 75 anyway.
Texting while driving adds enormously to the multitude of risks involved in driving.
And the one thing that is paramount  is your ability to react to something that happens ahead of you.
You might be in perfect control of your car, happily driving along and sending a text.
It's the car that loses control in front of you, has a blow-out and swerves, or the car that's jumping a red light or pulling out when you least expect it or your car having a blow-pot that's going to get you.
In those instances your reaction times increase dramatically if you are distracted by something.
Yes you can get distracted by anything, happens to us all, but shouldn't we me minimising these risks/distractions by not doing some things that potentially distract..?

It comes down to the saying " just because you can, doesn't mean you should"


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			It's really sad that a few people on here really don't understand how dangerous their actions are. 

So you are driving along, nice big gap to the car in front, pull out your phone to send a text. Slight lapse in concentration and you veer slightly to your right which causes the guy overtaking you in the outside lane to end up in the central reservation. Several cars then pile into him. 

But's it's OK, your wife knows you are on your way home and dinner will be on the table when you arrive so happy days.

Excellent 'calculated risk' :thup:
		
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You are of course correct, that such an incident could occur. But it could also happen because said person tries to light a cigarette or fails to check their blind spot and pulls out or swerves to avoid hitting an animal or something in the road. Getting in a car is a potentially dangerous thing and people make mistakes and accidents happen. Perhaps I have an unrealistic view on my driving abilities and coordinated activity of sending a text and driving, but not once have I ever felt out of control.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			You are of course correct, that such an incident could occur. But it could also happen because said person tries to light a cigarette or fails to check their blind spot and pulls out or swerves to avoid hitting an animal or something in the road. Getting in a car is a potentially dangerous thing and people make mistakes and accidents happen. Perhaps I have an unrealistic view on my driving abilities and coordinated activity of sending a text and driving, but not once have I ever felt out of control.
		
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The difference being that lighting a fag insn't against the law, nor swerving to avoid hitting a crazy badger. I'd probably juts stop arguing the toss if I were you. Non one is very likely to come out and say its Ok to text.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

Imurg said:



			It's obviously a risk even getting out of bed in the morning let alone driving down the M1 sending a text.
Surely, as drivers, we should be looking to minimise the risks we take?
Leaving aside the legality for a moment, driving at 80 on a clear motorway is a relatively small increased risk from driving at 70 - bearing in mind that of your speedo reads 80 you're probably doing less than 75 anyway.
Texting while driving adds enormously to the multitude of risks involved in driving.
And the one thing that is paramount is your ability to react to something that happens ahead of you.
You might be in perfect control of your car, happily driving along and sending a text.
It's the car that loses control in front of you, has a blow-out and swerves, or the car that's jumping a red light or pulling out when you least expect it or your car having a blow-pot that's going to get you.
In those instances your reaction times increase dramatically if you are distracted by something.
Yes you can get distracted by anything, happens to us all, but shouldn't we me minimising these risks/distractions by not doing some things that potentially distract..?

It comes down to the saying " just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
		
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Indeed, there is a lot of truth and reasoning within your post. I fully understand what you are saying, which is why I don't just do it whatever the situation / circumstances / road conditions and a number of other variables.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			The difference being that lighting a fag insn't against the law, nor swerving to avoid hitting a crazy badger
		
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You are completely missing the point. Just because something is against the law doesn't automatically mean it's more likely to cause an accident.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			You are completely missing the point. Just because something is against the law doesn't automatically mean it's more likely to cause an accident.
		
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The law was specificaly bought in to cover the fact that using a mobile while driving is dangerous and increases the risk of and accident. The roads are dangerous enough without the additional dangers of fools on their phones.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			You are of course correct, that such an incident could occur. But it could also happen because said person tries to light a cigarette or fails to check their blind spot and pulls out or swerves to avoid hitting an animal or something in the road. Getting in a car is a potentially dangerous thing and people make mistakes and accidents happen. Perhaps I have an unrealistic view on my driving abilities and coordinated activity of sending a text and driving, but not once have I ever felt out of control.
		
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Basically, you are just trying to justify your actions.



guest100718 said:



			The difference being that lighting a fag insn't against the law, nor swerving to avoid hitting a crazy badger. I'd probably juts stop arguing the toss if I were you. Non one is very likely to come out and say its Ok to text.
		
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Well said paddy  :thup:


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Basically, you are just trying to justify your actions.
		
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Trying to justify my actions or just explaining to you why I do it, what does it matter. I do it and I will continue to do it. I appreciate you don't and you don't like that fact I (and thousands of others) do, but c'est la vie


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 24, 2014)

Phools on Phones.....could catch on!

Woody.....where are your eyes when you are texting?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Trying to justify my actions or just explaining to you why I do it, what does it matter. I do it and I will continue to do it. I appreciate you don't and you don't like that fact I (and thousands of others) do, but c'est la vie
		
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I think this comment pretty much concludes the thread. As I said before, I sincerely hope you don't end up killing someone.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Phools on Phones.....could catch on!

Woody.....where are your eyes when you are texting?
		
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The majority of the time, they are on the road with the occasional glance at the screen for probably a second or there abouts. About the same amount of time it takes me to glance in my rear view mirror I would say.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I think this comment pretty much concludes the thread. As I said before, I sincerely hope you don't end up killing someone.
		
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And likewise you too when you get in your car and unwrap a wethers orginal*




*that was a joke based on the fact you live in Christchurch Grandpa**

** Grandpa was also a joke based on the fact you live in Christchurch


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			The law was specificaly bought in to cover the fact that using a mobile while driving is dangerous and increases the risk of and accident. The roads are dangerous enough without the additional dangers of fools on their phones.
		
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They are also thinking about banning eating and drinking because that increase the risk of an accident. I've stated many times that I fully understand that using a mobile is a risk. I've never tried to dispute that.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

Mods, I know you closed the original thread because it was getting a bit personal hence I started this one but as far as I'm concerned, this discussion has now run it's course. I'm happy for it to be closed if everyone else is getting bored of going round in circles now.


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## Slab (Jul 24, 2014)

Unwrapping a Werther's Original while driving is dangerous and also illegal (driving without due care and attention) but because no ones tracking the accident rate caused by unwrapping boiled sweets it doesn't get a specific mention like phones do but instead is lumped in with the rest like, looking at the pretty girl on the pavement or changing music etc and because we've become fairly skilled at it its only the really unfortunate accidents we hear about    

But these distractions still happen thousands of times a day 

Yes ideally we should all drive with supreme focus and attention to detail. Phones are one of the things that stop us doing that as well as we can... but it is one of dozens and until they are all treated with the same distaste that phones are its tough to see why some would single one out for special condemnation... while sucking on their caramel sweetie!


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## chris661 (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Mods, I know you closed the original thread because it was getting a bit personal hence I started this one but as far as I'm concerned, this discussion has now run it's course. I'm happy for it to be closed if everyone else is getting bored of going round in circles now.
		
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If you are that bored the answer is very simple. Don't reply to any more posts.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

chris661 said:



			If you are that bored the answer is very simple. Don't reply to any more posts.
		
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You really need to show some level of consistency in your moderation


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## Whereditgo (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			The majority of the time, they are on the road with the occasional glance at the screen for probably a second or there abouts. About the same amount of time it takes me to glance in my rear view mirror I would say.
		
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I would suggest that a "glance" in the rear view mirror takes a fraction of a second and the road remains in ones peripheral vision whereas a "glance" at a text probably takes up far in excess of a second, you've travelled an awful long way in even a couple of seconds at motorway speeds!


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## Fyldewhite (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			The law was specificaly bought in to cover the fact that using a mobile while driving is dangerous and increases the risk of and accident. The roads are dangerous enough without the additional dangers of fools on their phones.
		
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.....and that's exactly the reason speed limits are there. But it's ok to break them when it's "safe" to do so (many, perhaps most, people would say). Is that not exactly the same scenario?   ie it's against the law but I'm making a judgement that, in these circumstances, I'm happy with the risk and I'm going to do it anyway?   Nobody on here has said it's ok to just be driving along in busy traffic using their phone so why are most of the answers phrased as though that was the argument? Talk about missing the point.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2014)

Imurg said:



			It's obviously a risk even getting out of bed in the morning let alone driving down the M1 sending a text.
Surely, as drivers, we should be looking to minimise the risks we take?
Leaving aside the legality for a moment, driving at 80 on a clear motorway is a relatively small increased risk from driving at 70 - bearing in mind that of your speedo reads 80 you're probably doing less than 75 anyway.
Texting while driving adds enormously to the multitude of risks involved in driving.
And the one thing that is paramount  is your ability to react to something that happens ahead of you.
You might be in perfect control of your car, happily driving along and sending a text.
It's the car that loses control in front of you, has a blow-out and swerves, or the car that's jumping a red light or pulling out when you least expect it or your car having a blow-pot that's going to get you.
In those instances your reaction times increase dramatically if you are distracted by something.
Yes you can get distracted by anything, happens to us all, but shouldn't we me minimising these risks/distractions by not doing some things that potentially distract..?

It comes down to the saying " just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
		
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Very good post - very neatly summed up

Whilst driving we should as humanly possibly stay concentrated as much as possible to reduce the risk and to be alert to any other danger on the road - by texting your concentration and focus drops and you are no longer fully in control of the car as your concentration has been split into two separate acts. Your reactions will be reduced which has the possibility to cause harm - we should all be reducing the risk as much as possible - not increasing it


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## MegaSteve (Jul 24, 2014)

For those that use their devices whilst behind the wheel... If you have been 'tugged' a couple of times and paid your penalty accepted your points what would you then do?  I only ask as I heard through the grapevine [yesterday evening] that a mate of mine has now been pulled for the third time!!! Potential loss of licence I believe... Apparently the law is an ass and the its all a conspiracy etc etc... I'll be avoiding them for a bit as I don't really need an earache about something avoidable...


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## Twire (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			You really need to show some level of consistency in your moderation  

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To be fair D4S the first thread was closed due to the direction it was going with sniping and name calling. You then questioned us for being over zealous.




			Why was it closed? There was a very pertinent debate taking place.

Mods getting overzealous again?
		
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This thread has been civil with decent debate, but now you think it's run it's course you want it closed.


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## CMAC (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			You really need to show some level of consistency in your moderation  

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uh oh that sounds like a criticism, if the moderation is consistent you can expect more infraction points, maybe best to edit for a quieter life.


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## richart (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Trying to justify my actions or just explaining to you why I do it, what does it matter. I do it and I will continue to do it. I appreciate you don't and you don't like that fact I (and thousands of others) do, but c'est la vie
		
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Strange to come on a forum, and say that you have broken the law, and will continue to do so. Not sure you will get a lot of sympathy.

Do a search on people killed whilst texting and driving. Every death would have been avoided, but for the selfish act of an individual. Just because you think other actions in a car are just as distracting, you seem to think it makes your actions defensible. They are not, end of.


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## Ethan (Jul 24, 2014)

Slab said:



			Unwrapping a Werther's Original while driving is dangerous and also illegal (driving without due care and attention) but because no ones tracking the accident rate caused by unwrapping boiled sweets it doesn't get a specific mention like phones do but instead is lumped in with the rest like, looking at the pretty girl on the pavement or changing music etc and because we've become fairly skilled at it its only the really unfortunate accidents we hear about    

But these distractions still happen thousands of times a day 

Yes ideally we should all drive with supreme focus and attention to detail. Phones are one of the things that stop us doing that as well as we can... but it is one of dozens and until they are all treated with the same distaste that phones are its tough to see why some would single one out for special condemnation... while sucking on their caramel sweetie!
		
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Look, do you think this thread really needs all this common sense?


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			.....and that's exactly the reason speed limits are there. But it's ok to break them when it's "safe" to do so (many, perhaps most, people would say). Is that not exactly the same scenario?   ie it's against the law but I'm making a judgement that, in these circumstances, I'm happy with the risk and I'm going to do it anyway?   Nobody on here has said it's ok to just be driving along in busy traffic using their phone so why are most of the answers phrased as though that was the argument? Talk about missing the point.
		
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There is no point to me made. its illegal to use a mobile while driving. As is speeding.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

richart said:



			Strange to come on a forum, and say that you have broken the law, and will continue to do so. Not sure you will get a lot of sympathy.

Do a search on people killed whilst texting and driving. Every death would have been avoided, but for the selfish act of an individual. Just because you think other actions in a car are just as distracting, you seem to think it makes your actions defensible. They are not, end of.
		
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At what point did I say I was looking for sympathy? Someone asked the question and I answer it truthfully and explained why I do it. I know that some people (or even the majority) would not agree with my actions and condemn them, as is their right to do so.

Regarding your last point, pretty much every single death on the road could be avoided but for the selfish act of an individual, be it them not paying attention whilst pulling out or distracted completing some other task. I'm not trying to defend what I do just merely trying to state I could give up sending a text today and tomorrow get in my car, take a swig of a drink and cause a death.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			For those that use their devices whilst behind the wheel... If you have been 'tugged' a couple of times and paid your penalty accepted your points what would you then do? I only ask as I heard through the grapevine [yesterday evening] that a mate of mine has now been pulled for the third time!!! Potential loss of licence I believe... Apparently the law is an ass and the its all a conspiracy etc etc... I'll be avoiding them for a bit as I don't really need an earache about something avoidable...
		
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No idea tbh. I suspect I would do it less, but who knows.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

Whereditgo said:



			I would suggest that a "glance" in the rear view mirror takes a fraction of a second and the road remains in ones peripheral vision whereas a "glance" at a text probably takes up far in excess of a second, you've travelled an awful long way in even a couple of seconds at motorway speeds!
		
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I respectfully disagree. As someone who does "occassionally" text whilst driving, drawing on my experience of doing it it takes no more than a glance and is similar to looking in my rear view mirror. Others who do it may look for longer or course, but I am only going on my own experiences.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

Twire said:



			To be fair D4S the first thread was closed due to the direction it was going with sniping and name calling. You then questioned us for being over zealous.




This thread has been civil with decent debate, but now you think it's run it's course you want it closed.
		
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No I didn't actually ask for it to be closed, I said I thought it had run it's course because it has reached the point of the same arguments going round in circles with no give or take on either side.

What I said was I'm HAPPY for it to be closed if other people feel the same.


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## chris661 (Jul 24, 2014)

drive4show said:



			You really need to show some level of consistency in your moderation  

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:rofl: it has nothing to do with moderation.

In your first post you were moaning about the previous thread being closed on a whim now you want this one closed on a whim.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2014)

chris661 said:



			:rofl: it has nothing to do with moderation.

In your first post you were moaning about the previous thread being closed on a whim now you want this one closed on a whim. 



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Can I direct you to the post immediately above yours?  cheers  :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69;1110869.I'm not trying to defend what I do just merely trying to state I could give up sending a text today and tomorrow get in my car said:
			
		


			And that, drinking and driving, is equally reprehensible.

There are no scales of irresponsibility and just because someone else commits a different dangerous act whilst driving does not make your texting any less dangerous.
		
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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 24, 2014)

I go back to my first follow-up post to my OP (post #6) - where I opined




			...but in such things you can find folk who think it's OK - because we don't make illegal something else that they claim to be equally distracting (like having children - young or old - in the back seats).
		
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As so it is.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			At what point did I say I was looking for sympathy? Someone asked the question and I answer it truthfully and explained why I do it. I know that some people (or even the majority) would not agree with my actions and condemn them, as is their right to do so.

Regarding your last point, pretty much every single death on the road could be avoided but for the selfish act of an individual, be it them not paying attention whilst pulling out or distracted completing some other task. I'm not trying to defend what I do just merely trying to state I could give up sending a text today and tomorrow get in my car, take a swig of a drink and cause a death.
		
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Or you could give up texting whilst driving ( regardless of what you believe you will not be in full control of the car whilst texting ) and also not take a swig of a drink and then drive. 

You are in charge of a lethal weapon - the very least you can do is ensure you minimise any risk whilst driving that lethal weapon and ensure that the driving part has your full concentration and focus. What text is worth taking the risk ? Is there any text that is that important that you must send it whilst driving ? And if it is that important why not pull over to send it.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			And that, drinking and driving, is equally reprehensible.

There are no scales of irresponsibility and just because someone else commits a different dangerous act whilst driving does not make your texting any less dangerous.
		
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I was talking about a sip of a non-alcoholic drink whilst actually driving, not drinking and driving. And in response to your final sentence, I never said it did. Likewise it doesn't make it any more dangerous.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or you could give up texting whilst driving ( regardless of what you believe you will not be in full control of the car whilst texting ) and also not take a swig of a drink and then drive. 

You are in charge of a lethal weapon - the very least you can do is ensure you minimise any risk whilst driving that lethal weapon and ensure that the driving part has your full concentration and focus. What text is worth taking the risk ? Is there any text that is that important that you must send it whilst driving ? And if it is that important why not pull over to send it.
		
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Indeed I could give it up and focus on the road 100% of the time with no other distractions (which I do occasionally do you know). And as I have said before, nope there is no text that is so important that I HAVE to send it whilst driving, but on occasion and if I believe I can do so safely, I will take the risk and send the text, the same way I will very occasionally take the risk and have a SOFT drink or something to eat, or lean over and attach the MP3 cable to my phone or blah blah blah... I could do all those things by pulling over, but pulling over could create a whole heap of other problems depending on where I do it, but let's not go down that rabbit hole.

Sometimes I drive with full focus and attention on the road for either most or all of the journey. Sometimes I am distracted by things beyond my control such as a child misbehaving and sometimes I take risks and do things I don't necessarily need to do like send a text, but I do it based on my own risk assessment at the time. It really is that simple.

Right I'm off to drive home after work. I have some texts to send...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2014)

I think it appears that the only way that you will stop texting whilst driving or understand how big a risk it is - is if you either get caught and have to deal with the fine and points and possibly more or and I hope this never happens - the risk you believe you are in control of actually turns out to be false control and you hurt someone or yourself. I really really hope it's not the second one and someone doesnt suffer at the hands of your safe risk ?! 

Before that read some stories about people that have died at the hands of someone who has taken the risk to text whilst driving - it might make you think twice.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 24, 2014)

Woody, do you text when you have children in your car?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 24, 2014)

Woody, do you text children when you're in your car?


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2014)

bit late to these threads, so texting is bad? am i ok to tweet?


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Woody, do you text children when you're in your car?
		
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pmsl!! now u calling him a peado??


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2014)

Rooter said:



			bit late to these threads, so texting is bad? am i ok to tweet?
		
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Tweetings fine, as are snapchat and whatsap


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2014)

Rooter said:



			pmsl!! now u calling him a peado?? 

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Forum gold :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Tweetings fine, as are snapchat and whatsap
		
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But FaceBook is never acceptable for anyone over the age of 18.


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## North Mimms (Jul 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Tweetings fine, as are snapchat and whatsap
		
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Sexting definitely a bad idea.
 Driving with no trousers on can cause all kinds of problems...


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think it appears that the only way that you will stop texting whilst driving or understand how big a risk it is - is if you either get caught and have to deal with the fine and points and possibly more or and I hope this never happens - the risk you believe you are in control of actually turns out to be false control and you hurt someone or yourself. I really really hope it's not the second one and someone doesnt suffer at the hands of your safe risk ?! 

Before that read some stories about people that have died at the hands of someone who has taken the risk to text whilst driving - it might make you think twice.
		
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I have. It doesn't.



Doon frae Troon said:



			Woody, do you text when you have children in your car?
		
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No. They are an added distraction



CheltenhamHacker said:



			Woody, do you text children when you're in your car?
		
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Only yours.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 24, 2014)

Gentlemen perlease


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			I have. It doesn't.
.
		
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http://youtu.be/qBrxmuXmYVs


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2014)

I think Woody's somewhat dogmatic stance on this is way out of kilter with opinion and what others see as common sense and I hope he never has cause to regret that one second it takes. It seems that he's totally entrenched and the majority are in the opposite lines. I can't see where else this is going


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 24, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Only yours.
		
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Hahaha :thup:


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## Slab (Jul 25, 2014)

I wondered if this question should be separate to this thread but on reflection I think itâ€™s part of this discussion although given strength of opinion not sure itâ€™ll get the honest replies to add to the debate 

Everyone knows what itâ€™s like to ignore a ringing phone, and a great many texts are sent to illicit a response, so... 

_Have you ever sent a text to someone who you know could be driving? Did you even think about it before sending and if so what were you thoughts on the possible consequences?_


Didnâ€™t think about the risk
Itâ€™s not my responsibility
Whatever happens happens 
Assumed their phone would be switched off if driving
Assumed they would pull over to read
Assumed they wouldnâ€™t read till later 
Have never sent a text
This thread is about sending texts while driving and I donâ€™t want to admit I might be part of the problem
 

What message was so important that you needed to send it at that time? I mean even the unexpected alert of an incoming message is a distraction to a driver 

Are you just sending a loaded gun but not thinking about whether the trigger gets pulled!

Of course none of the above makes it legal to use your phone to text while driving, just trying to stimulate some further debate here


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## North Mimms (Jul 25, 2014)

Slab said:



			I wondered if this question should be separate to this thread but on reflection I think itâ€™s part of this discussion although given strength of opinion not sure itâ€™ll get the honest replies to add to the debate 

Everyone knows what itâ€™s like to ignore a ringing phone, and a great many texts are sent to illicit a response, so... 

_Have you ever sent a text to someone who you know could be driving? Did you even think about it before sending and if so what were you thoughts on the possible consequences?_


Didnâ€™t think about the risk
Itâ€™s not my responsibility
Whatever happens happens 
Assumed their phone would be switched off if driving
Assumed they would pull over to read
Assumed they wouldnâ€™t read till later 
Have never sent a text
This thread is about sending texts while driving and I donâ€™t want to admit I might be part of the problem
 

What message was so important that you needed to send it at that time? I mean even the unexpected alert of an incoming message is a distraction to a driver 

Are you just sending a loaded gun but not thinking about whether the trigger gets pulled!

Of course none of the above makes it legal to use your phone to text while driving, just trying to stimulate some further debate here
		
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That's a really interesting viewpoint, but the full responsibility for text- driving lies with the person who decides to read or send a text while driving.
Yes- texts are often sent to elicit a response, but if someone doesn't reply within a few minutes, i assume they are doing something else, and will reply when they can (or they hate me!)
The advantage of a text is that is can be read at your convenience. 
When it's safe and sensible to do so.

What I find bizarre, is seeing people driving off from a parked position, phone in hand.
Why not make that call, send that text before starting the car?


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## woody69 (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://youtu.be/qBrxmuXmYVs

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Yes, I have seen that before. It's very well done and hard hitting for sure, but then when I do send a text I don't do it like she is and as I have stated many times before I have never ever even come close to drifting out of my lane and I never do more than glance at the screen for no more than a second at a time, but I feel like I'm just repeating myself here.


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## woody69 (Jul 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think Woody's somewhat dogmatic stance on this is way out of kilter with opinion and what others see as common sense and I hope he never has cause to regret that one second it takes. It seems that he's totally entrenched and the majority are in the opposite lines. I can't see where else this is going
		
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Or I'm the only one on here who's willing to admit that I do it. Thanks again for having me in your thoughts though about causing a potential accident because I'm looking at my phone.


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## Ethan (Jul 25, 2014)

Interesting, if fractious, debate. 

I think there is an interesting debate between advocates of proportionality and those of strict adherence to the law. 

It should be obvious that anything which distracts or impairs the responses of the driver is a potential hazard - texting, listening to loud music, having taken alcohol, looking in the back to tell the kids to behave, whatever.

Some of these are easier to legislate for, though. Although there is good evidence that driving performance is impaired at lower levels, we have a drink driving limit. Would a zero limit be safer - yes. Personally I don't touch alcohol if I am going to be in a car anytime soon after. But there are political factors too. No Govt wants to be the one that gets the negative nanny state coverage associated with reducing the level to zero. 

Likewise, banning turning to look into the back of the car is rather difficult to implement and police, and is unnecessary because in extreme cases can be covered under due care and attention or similar. But texting while driving is much easier to ban, so they do. And texting is also the purview of young people and young people in cars are something that gets the white middle Daily Mail reader all up in a lather.

I think the argument that something is unlawful and therefore morally wrong is a false one. So is its counterpart, that something which is not unlawful is morally OK.


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## Beezerk (Jul 25, 2014)

Driving home from Scotland down the M74 yesterday afternoon, spotted umpteen texters (you can tell them a mile off, swerving side to side), umpteen on the phone making calls (no hands free), and a few guys eating while at the wheel.
It's rife and getting worse IMO, got to be honest women seem to be the worst culprits although it's just my personal observation.

I also nearly wiped out a cyclist on a country road who decided to go around a blind corner on the wrong side of the road.
Interesting drive home it was


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## Fyldewhite (Jul 25, 2014)

Well said Ethan. Fully agree.

I still think the analogy with speeding is valid. Both are illegal, both increase the risk of accidents/deaths, both can be done recklessly and hey......both can be done at negligible additional risk. That's just a bunch of facts. Yes, "negligible" is subjective but I think most would agree. Now, if anyone never breaks a speed limit and never touches a mobile in a car that's fine, I doubt very much if anyone could justify criticising that position and I for one would never do that. However, to do one and then categorically say the other is unacceptable, in ANY circumstances (like what Woody actually described as opposed to what many seem to think he is advocating) is I think a display of breathtaking arrogance and double standards. Clearly, nobody posting on this thread would fall into that category though.

PS - another one above totally missing the point ------I'm out.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 25, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			It's rife and getting worse IMO, got to be honest women seem to be the worst culprits although it's just my personal observation.
		
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Its not just you. I drive for a living, I see far more women than men using their phones while driving.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 25, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Or I'm the only one on here who's willing to admit that I do it. Thanks again for having me in your thoughts though about causing a potential accident because I'm looking at my phone.
		
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No Woody69 you are not alone as I have texted whilst driving - and so chastened was I by the article that I read I was prompted to open the topic.  However I can also honestly say that I have only done it maybe half dozen times in last few years and only when stationary or moving very slowly (I'm a rubbish texter in all weathers).  

Interestingly given @slabs observations my texts were *only* as the briefest replies (no more than a handful of words) to texts I've received.

But I cannot lie and cannot be hypocritical - the honest truth is that I have sent texts whilst driving.  But I will no longer do so.  It may not be a big deal for me - but consequences could be a very big deal for someone else.


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## triple_bogey (Jul 25, 2014)

Used to do it when the phones had hard buttons, as you really didn't need to look at the phone to see what you was typing.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 25, 2014)

triple_bogey said:



			Used to do it when the phones had hard buttons, as you really didn't need to look at the phone to see what you was typing.
		
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Which is a very important observation I think.  Many folks may have developed a laissez faire attitude and habit towards texting while driving when they used a phone with raised buttons.  But with touch screens the texter really does have to look down at what they are testing and concentrate on the keypad and correcting predictive texting errors.  Bad news bingo.

But for many the habit and attitude are now ingrained - and of course they won't have had an accident - yet.  But with new touch screens the risk is clearly significantly greater than it was - especially with predictive texting messing up any typing slips.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 25, 2014)

triple_bogey said:



			Used to do it when the phones had hard buttons, as you really didn't need to look at the phone to see what you was typing.
		
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Good shout - let's see if we get some more honesty.  And I have fessed up even although some might say that the very small numbers and minimalist content of texts I have sent 'don't really count' as texting whilst driving - to me it does - let's not split hairs.


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## chrisd (Jul 25, 2014)

I used to have a work colleague who swore blind that he was a better driver after 4 or 5 pints than he was sober, if he's still driving I bet he texts too!


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## bladeplayer (Jul 25, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Good shout - let's see if we get some more honesty.  And I have fessed up even although some might say that the very small numbers and minimalist content of texts I have sent 'don't really count' as texting whilst driving - to me it does - let's not split hairs.
		
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Good luck with that mate


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 25, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Good shout - let's see if we get some more honesty.  And I have fessed up even although some might say that the very small numbers and minimalist content of texts I have sent 'don't really count' as texting whilst driving - to me it does - let's not split hairs.
		
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I don't and I won't. I've done advanced driver training and I appreciate just how dangerous the roads can be. Unlike some people on here.


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## woody69 (Jul 25, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I don't and I won't. I've done advanced driver training and I appreciate just how dangerous the roads can be. *Unlike some people on here*.
		
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So close!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 25, 2014)

woody69 said:



			So close!
		
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I don't follow what you mean?


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## woody69 (Jul 25, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I don't follow what you mean?
		
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You were so close to being able to make a good contribution (and very valid one at that) to the thread without finding a way to belittle, insult others, but then you had to put your last sentence in. Twas a shame.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I don't and I won't. I've done advanced driver training and I appreciate just how dangerous the roads can be. Unlike some people on here.
		
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Also done advances driving courses and I won't and haven't text whilst driving - just think it's an act without any thinking of others.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Yes, I have seen that before. It's very well done and hard hitting for sure, but then when I do send a text I don't do it like she is and as I have stated many times before I have never ever even come close to drifting out of my lane and I never do more than glance at the screen for no more than a second at a time, but I feel like I'm just repeating myself here.
		
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Your false confidence is just as dangerous as the act of texting whilst driving - you glance at the screen - in that glance your eyes are off the road - to suggest you are in control whilst not looking at the road is incorrect. It's ok if you are putting your own life at risk - but you're not - you are also putting others at risk


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 25, 2014)

woody69 said:



			You were so close to being able to make a good contribution (and very valid one at that) to the thread without finding a way to belittle, insult others, but then you had to put your last sentence in. Twas a shame.
		
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I wasn't insulting you. I don't need to. You are doing a pretty good job on your own. 

I'm sorry but you just don't seem to understand the seriousness of your actions. Maybe you should pop into your local police station and ask to speak to a traffic officer, they have pictures and videos of some of the carnage this sort of thing leads to. 

If I was to call you stupid or an idiot I don't think it would be insulting, I think it would be factually correct.


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## woody69 (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Your false confidence is just as dangerous as the act of texting whilst driving - you glance at the screen - in that glance your eyes are off the road - to suggest you are in control whilst not looking at the road is incorrect. It's ok if you are putting your own life at risk - but you're not - you are also putting others at risk
		
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You don't have to keep repeating yourself Phil. I fully understand and appreciate your view on things.


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## woody69 (Jul 25, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I wasn't insulting you. I don't need to. You are doing a pretty good job on your own. 

I'm sorry but you just don't seem to understand the seriousness of your actions. Maybe you should pop into your local police station and ask to speak to a traffic officer, they have pictures and videos of some of the carnage this sort of thing leads to. 

If I was to call you stupid or an idiot I don't think it would be insulting, I think it would be factually correct.
		
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OK.


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## triple_bogey (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Your false confidence is just as dangerous as the act of texting whilst driving - *you glance at the screen - in that glance your eyes are off the road *- to suggest you are in control whilst not looking at the road is incorrect. It's ok if you are putting your own life at risk - but you're not - you are also putting others at risk
		
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Checking you're side mirrors or the rear view can just be as detrimental. I've seen many blokes hit the car in front because they were eyeing up the attractive girl in the rear view.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

triple_bogey said:



			Checking you're side mirrors or the rear view can just be as detrimental. I've seen many blokes hit the car in front because they were eyeing up the attractive girl in the rear view.
		
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Does that mean it's then acceptable because other drivers also do things that mean they aren't fully focused on the road ? 

I can never understand that as a counter argument - no one has said looking at attractive people whilst driving is acceptable if you aren't concentrating on the road.


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## triple_bogey (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does that mean it's then acceptable because other drivers also do things that mean they aren't fully focused on the road ? 

I can never understand that as a counter argument - no one has said looking at attractive people whilst driving is acceptable if you aren't concentrating on the road.
		
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Because you make out that people that text or used to text whilst driving are pathetic excuses. Anything can cause an accident and just because you have done a advanced driving course does not mean you will not cause an accident yourself through whatever reason.
All humans are flawed, except for you obviously. :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

triple_bogey said:



			Because you make out that people that text or used to text whilst driving are pathetic excuses.
		
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I believe they are to be selfish and stupid for their actions whilst driving 




			Anything can cause an accident and just because you have done a advanced driving course does not mean you will not cause an accident yourself through whatever reason.
		
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Nowhere have I stated that - but I know I'm not stupid enough to deliberately increase the risk Of causing an accident and possibly serious harm to people by carrying out illegal activities whilst driving 




			All humans are flawed, except for you obviously. :thup:
		
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Not sure there is any need for cheap digs.


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## CMAC (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Does that mean it's then acceptable because other drivers also do things that mean they aren't fully focused on the road ? 

I can never understand that as a counter argument - n*o one has said looking at attractive people whilst driving is acceptable if you aren't concentrating on the road.*

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man I've nearly hit the kerb twice the last few days, this heat has short skirts and long legs everywhere, there was so many at one point I had to pull over to *ahem* make a call:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

CMAC said:



			man I've nearly hit the kerb twice the last few days, this heat has short skirts and long legs everywhere, there was so many at one point I had to pull over to *ahem* make a call:rofl:
		
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A young lad crashed into a pelican crossing in town last sat when him and his passenger where transfixed on two pretty ladies not wearing much !! Poor kid was devastated .


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## bladeplayer (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A young lad crashed into a pelican crossing in town last sat when him and his passenger where transfixed on two pretty ladies not wearing much !! Poor kid was devastated .
		
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MAYBE If he had been texting he would not have seen her and the accident could have been avoided


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			MAYBE If he had been texting he would not have seen her and the accident could have been avoided




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Or hit the other pelican


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## bladeplayer (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or hit the other pelican 

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:thup:   :clap:

What are the rules on loose animals anyhow ha


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			:thup:   :clap:

What are the rules on loose animals anyhow ha
		
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I'm not sure if you get a free drop just like GUR ? :mmm:


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## woody69 (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe they are to be selfish and stupid for their actions whilst driving 

Nowhere have I stated that - but I know *I'm not stupid enough *to deliberately increase the risk Of causing an accident and possibly serious harm to people by carrying out illegal activities whilst driving 

*Not sure there is any need for cheap digs*.
		
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Irony?


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## Ethan (Jul 25, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I used to have a work colleague who swore blind that he was a better driver after 4 or 5 pints than he was sober, if he's still driving I bet he texts too!
		
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Alcohol at all doses is a brain depressant, but at modest doses causes disinhibition which may appear as more confidence. 

Or taking your clothes off and running down the High St.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 25, 2014)

Haven't commented on this yet but it's been a worrying read....

I think I follow the general train of thought regarding different perceptions of risk and so on, but no matter how hard I try I just can't imagine a way in which I could send a text while driving without taking a totally outrageous risk. I can see how I could take a drink of juice, eat a sweet, look in my rear view mirror (does someone REALLY think that's unsafe???), exceed the speed limit even, etc etc without endangering anyone but no way could I send a text without being a real danger on the road. 

I've never sent a text while driving, never will and I honestly think anyone caught doing so should have the book thrown at them.


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## virtuocity (Jul 25, 2014)




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## pokerjoke (Jul 25, 2014)

I saw a programme recently about a man who goes to road accidents,finds out what really happened
then has to go and tell the family.
He got called to an accident where a young 21 year old girl got killed.
A works lorry had hit her from behind and the car was a 3rd of its original size.
He had to reach in to grab her bag so they could identify her she was that mangled.
The works van had a driver and his assistant in it,they were taken to the police station and interviewed
separately.
At first they both stuck with a story where they never saw the traffic stopping,until the assistant finally
changed his story telling the police the driver was looking at the works phone only for a few seconds.
For the poor girl and her family it was a couple of seconds too much.
I have seen lots of people on phones whilst driving and I just want to get out of my car and start
shouting at them.
They are muppets.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 25, 2014)

Ethan said:



			Interesting, if fractious, debate. 

*I think there is an interesting debate between advocates of proportionality and those of strict adherence to the law. *

It should be obvious that anything which distracts or impairs the responses of the driver is a potential hazard - texting, listening to loud music, having taken alcohol, looking in the back to tell the kids to behave, whatever.

Some of these are easier to legislate for, though. Although there is good evidence that driving performance is impaired at lower levels, we have a drink driving limit. *Would a zero limit be safer - yes.* Personally I don't touch alcohol if I am going to be in a car anytime soon after. But there are political factors too. No Govt wants to be the one that gets the negative nanny state coverage associated with reducing the level to zero. 

Likewise, banning turning to look into the back of the car is rather difficult to implement and police, and is unnecessary because in extreme cases can be covered under due care and attention or similar. But texting while driving is much easier to ban, so they do. And texting is also the purview of young people and young people in cars are something that gets the white middle Daily Mail reader all up in a lather.

I think the argument that something is unlawful and therefore morally wrong is a false one. So is its counterpart, that something which is not unlawful is morally OK.
		
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Can I suggest that there should be strict adherence to the law and any proportionality should be in the sentence handed down?  You should not text whilst driving, period.  But there is a world of difference between someone who quickly reads a text whilst in stationary traffic and someone who types one out and send it whilst driving along a motorway.  Yet under the current constraints of the judicial system both will get the same penalty.  And it needs addressing.

I'll disagree; it's not the actual level of the limit that makes it safer, it's the chances of being caught.   Given the almost complete disappearance of Traffic Patrols from our roads in favour of cameras, and hence the chance of being tested outside of being involved in an accident reducing drastically, the limit itself makes little difference.  I'm not disagreeing with your point that not drinking alcohol is safer than drinking a limited amount before driving, but if you don't believe you will get caught then your attitude to it will be affected and thus the limit is not the primary safety driver in my opinion, but the chance of prosecution.


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## CMAC (Jul 25, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			I saw a programme recently about a man who goes to road accidents,finds out what really happened
then has to go and tell the family.
He got called to an accident where a young 21 year old girl got killed.
A works lorry had hit her from behind and the car was a 3rd of its original size.
He had to reach in to grab her bag so they could identify her she was that mangled.
The works van had a driver and his assistant in it,they were taken to the police station and interviewed
separately.
At first they both stuck with a story where they never saw the traffic stopping,until the assistant finally
changed his story telling the police the driver was looking at the works phone only for a few seconds.
For the poor girl and her family it was a couple of seconds too much.
*I have seen lots of people on phones whilst driving and I just want to get out of my car and start
shouting at them.
They are muppets*.
		
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agreed, its peanuts to get a hands free installed.

I had a guy behind me for miles chatting and laughing on his phone, totally oblivious. A 'tap' on my brake lights (whilst accelerating) soon got his attention, he was furious! imagine how furious the family would be of someone he killed or maimed for life.

Idiots! they need a slap!


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## chrisd (Jul 26, 2014)

The front page of the Mail is interesting today, they say the police are going to check mobiles when they are called to accidents to see if they were being used when the accident occurred


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 26, 2014)

chrisd said:



			The front page of the Mail is interesting today, they say the police are going to check mobiles when they are called to accidents to see if they were being used when the accident occurred
		
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This was mentioned on traffic cops,a young girl crashed her car on a duel carriage way. She claimed that she swerved to miss a rabbit,however the skid marks suggested otherwise. The police officer said that if any one had been injured they would have checked phone records.


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## guest100718 (Aug 28, 2014)

I think I saw your car woody...


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## CMAC (Aug 28, 2014)

two weeks ago a friends car was written off along with 3 other cars, get this, they were *stationary* at the traffic lights outside a *primary school*, woman in a RR Sport ploughed into them writing off 4 cars the force was so bad. Using her mobile? possibly but denied, she didnt see them stopped is the defence.

It beggars belief the carnage that could have been if the primary kids were crossing at that time.

Zero tolerance, massive fines and driving bans should be for a 1st offence. Do it again you lose your licence, do it again when you get it back, you lose licence for life and your car confiscated and sold, end of.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 28, 2014)

CMAC said:



			two weeks ago a friends car was written off along with 3 other cars, get this, they were *stationary* at the traffic lights outside a *primary school*, woman in a RR Sport ploughed into them writing off 4 cars the force was so bad. Using her mobile? possibly but denied, she didnt see them stopped is the defence.

It beggars belief the carnage that could have been if the primary kids were crossing at that time.

Zero tolerance, massive fines and driving bans should be for a 1st offence. Do it again you lose your licence, do it again when you get it back, you lose licence for life and your car confiscated and sold, end of.
		
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Ah but it's OK because she took a calculated risk


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## Slime (Aug 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe they are to be selfish and stupid for their actions whilst driving 

Nowhere have I stated that - *but I know I'm not stupid enough to deliberately increase the risk Of causing an accident and possibly serious harm to people by carrying out illegal activities whilst driving *

Not sure there is any need for cheap digs.
		
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Never broken the speed limit Phil?

I don't text and won't text, but I'll be perfectly honest, I do break the speed limit.
Like *woody69*, I take a 'calculated' risk. I'm not proud of it, but I do do it.


*Slime*.


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## SocketRocket (Aug 28, 2014)

So is the theory:  If you speed then why not text as well?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 28, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			So is the theory:  If you speed then why not text as well?
		
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In for a penny,in for a pound 
Might aswell neck a bottle of JD whilst you're at it.


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## JCW (Aug 28, 2014)

Should not be texting and driving , nuff said , most are not aware that the police can pull up your phone records if they suspect you been on your mobile , I think anyone done for this offence should get 9 points and the 2nd time will lead to a ban and the insurance companies then load your premuim even more as you are a at risk driver .................thats my call on it


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## SocketRocket (Aug 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			In for a penny,in for a pound 
Might aswell neck a bottle of JD whilst you're at it.
		
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Thats just wrong!!    I hate JD, Bush Mills is much better.


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## DaveM (Aug 28, 2014)

woody69 said:



			You are of course correct, that such an incident could occur. But it could also happen because said person tries to light a cigarette or fails to check their blind spot and pulls out or swerves to avoid hitting an animal or some
thing in the road. Getting in a car is a potentially dangerous thing and people make mistakes and accidents happen. Perhaps I have an unrealistic view on my driving abilities and coordinated activity of sending a text and driving, but not once have I ever felt out of control.
		
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Most of the above is just an excuse to try and justify a dangerous and illegal action. I agree every time you get in a car there is the potential for an accident. So why increase the odds. There is nothing more dangerous than the person who thinks they are a great driver. Everyone can make mistakes. The driver who realises he/she can is generally the better driver.


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## Slime (Aug 29, 2014)

I think if we are all totally honest, a large number of us would admit to having done something stupid, and therefore risk increasing, at the wheel of a car.
We've probably all taken 'calculated risks' at some time or other and got away with it.
I have NEVER texted whilst driving a car, and nor will I, but I have done the following;
Driven when I was too tired.
Taken a phone call.
Driven too fast ...... far too fast.
Overtaken when I shouldn't have.
Stared at pretty young things for too long.
Messed around with the stereo for too long.
Driven after a drink. NOT over the limit mind you, but there was alcohol in me.
Undertaken on a motorway.

There are probably more to add to the list, and I can honestly say that none of the above are regular occurences.
I guess what I'm saying is that what *woody69* does is wrong, very wrong, but none of us are really whiter than white ........... are we?
Hands up anyone who thinks they are!


*Slime*.


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## Rooter (Aug 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			Driven when I was too tired.
Taken a phone call.
Driven too fast ...... far too fast.
Overtaken when I shouldn't have.
Stared at pretty young things for too long.
Messed around with the stereo for too long.
Driven after a drink. NOT over the limit mind you, but there was alcohol in me.
Undertaken on a motorway.
		
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That's my normal daily routine.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 29, 2014)

Rooter said:



			That's my normal daily routine.
		
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I once turned the stereo over,sent a text,eat a cheese burger whilst  staring at an attractive member of the opposite sex.
All this whilst doing 34 in a 30mph zone.
I'm not even sorry


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 29, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JHixeIr_6BM?rel=0&autoplay=1&iv_load_policy=3

got sent this link, thought I'd share it

Very cleverly done, the Cinema audience were asked to keep their mobiles on.


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## Khamelion (Aug 29, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



https://www.youtube.com/embed/JHixeIr_6BM?rel=0&autoplay=1&iv_load_policy=3

got sent this link, thought I'd share it

Very cleverly done, the Cinema audience were asked to keep their mobiles on.
		
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Succinct, to the point, and if it made only 10% of that audience not to text while driving, then that's potentially 10% more people that will remain alive.


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## North Mimms (Aug 30, 2014)

It's not just car drivers...
Today I had to brake and swerve to avoid a cyclist who pulled out of a side road without stopping.

Once he was ahead of me on the main road - which had a painted cycle lane on it - he was swerving and wobbling in front of me.
He had an iPhone balanced on right handlebar in his had which he seemed to be fiddling with.

As I finally managed to overtake him - giving him a very wide berth - my husband called out his open passenger window "Put your stupid phone away!" to which the reply was unprintable!

The bloke was as unstable and wobbly on his bike as a 5 year old who had just taken off his stablisers!


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## Imurg (Aug 30, 2014)

At least he wasn't coming at you going the wrong way down a one way street which is what one of my pupils had to deal with the other day...


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## Blue in Munich (Aug 30, 2014)

Imurg said:



			At least he wasn't coming at you going the wrong way down a one way street which is what one of my pupils had to deal with the other day...
		
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Get used to it Imurg, if Boris gets his way they will be exempt from every one-way street!  Not that they seem to think that any rule in the Highway Code applies to them.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 30, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Get used to it Imurg, if Boris gets his way they will be exempt from every one-way street!  Not that they seem to think that any rule in the Highway Code applies to them.
		
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Don't tar all bicycle riders with the same brush. There are two types........cyclists.......and bike owners. 

Cyclists are responsible, follow the highway code and ride safely.

Bike owners on the other hand.....................


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## Slime (Aug 30, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Don't tar all bicycle riders with the same brush. *There are two types........cyclists.......and bike owners. *

Cyclists are responsible, follow the highway code and ride safely.

Bike owners on the other hand.....................

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I totally agree with this, however, there are also motorists and car owners!
Unfortunately, he same rules pretty much apply.


*Slime*.


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 30, 2014)

Slime said:



			I totally agree with this, however, there are also motorists and car owners!
Unfortunately, he same rules pretty much apply.


*Slime*.
		
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Methinks Slime has a point, but has missed out a category
" car owning jerks" 

They are among us and they breed !!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 31, 2014)

CMAC said:



			two weeks ago a friends car was written off along with 3 other cars, get this, they were *stationary* at the traffic lights outside a *primary school*, woman in a RR Sport ploughed into them writing off 4 cars the force was so bad. Using her mobile? possibly but denied, she didnt see them stopped is the defence.

It beggars belief the carnage that could have been if the primary kids were crossing at that time.

Zero tolerance, massive fines and driving bans should be for a 1st offence. Do it again you lose your licence, do it again when you get it back, you lose licence for life and your car confiscated and sold, end of.
		
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Not to do with texting but a couple of days ago was driving at 20mph through a flashing 20mph school lunch time period.
I was aware of a large 4x4 close behind me.
He/She overtook me on the wrong side of a keep left exactly opposite the school entrance.
Two empty child seats in the back of the car.


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## North Mimms (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not to do with texting but a couple of days ago was driving at 20mph through a flashing 20mph school lunch time period.
I was aware of a large 4x4 close behind me.
He/She overtook me on the wrong side of a keep left exactly opposite the school entrance.
Two empty child seats in the back of the car.
		
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I would like to think that the majority of mothers are careful drivers, but there are a significant number who not only shouldn't be allowed to drive their children to school,, but also really shouldn't have been allowed to have children in the first place


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## Slime (Aug 31, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			I would like to think that the majority of mothers are careful drivers, but there are a significant number who not only shouldn't be allowed to drive their children to school,, but also really shouldn't have been allowed to have children in the first place
		
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As if proof were needed, and it's not confined to our shores either!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-car-by-parent-who-went-to-work-9701319.html

A genuine tragedy.


*Slime*.


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## woody69 (Aug 31, 2014)

CMAC said:



			two weeks ago a friends car was written off along with 3 other cars, get this, they were *stationary* at the traffic lights outside a *primary school*, woman in a RR Sport ploughed into them writing off 4 cars the force was so bad. Using her mobile? possibly but denied, she didnt see them stopped is the defence.

It beggars belief the carnage that could have been if the primary kids were crossing at that time.

Zero tolerance, massive fines and driving bans should be for a 1st offence. Do it again you lose your licence, do it again when you get it back, you lose licence for life and your car confiscated and sold, end of.
		
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So a simple, quite serious shunt with possibly tragic circumstances but nothing to do with using a mobile... or possibly... but maybe not? And this proves what exactly? That driving is dangerous. Well I never.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2014)

Slime said:



			As if proof were needed, and it's not confined to our shores either!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-car-by-parent-who-went-to-work-9701319.html

A genuine tragedy.


*Slime*.
		
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That is child neglect on a grandiose scale. How can you "forget" to take a child to a nursery. Hope they throw the book at them.


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## drdel (Aug 31, 2014)

All those who think they can multi-task need to realise that the brain prioritises tasks so you are only thinking consciously about one thing at any given moment in time.

If you're texting while driving you ain't thinking about your driving even though you may 'think' you're doing both the fact is that you aren't.  

At 60 mph you cover 88 feet in 1 second, the average road carriageway is somewhere around 12-15 feet e.g. a distance covered in less than 0.2 of a second; half of which is reaction time IF you are concentrating on the road.


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