# Proud to be British...what does this mean?



## Tiger (Jun 6, 2012)

I've seen the phrase 'Proud to be British' said, quoted, tweeted and printed a lot over the weekend but what does it mean nowadays? The Empire no longer stretches over a fifth of the globe (and the pacifists may question the legitimacy of such an empire. Does the Commonwealth have any mean any more? Our military are still the best the world has to offer but you could question the nobility of some of the battles they are being asked to fight. We are no longer the world leaders in Science, Engineering or Industry that we used to be. The Pound is weak and we are reliant on an 'export' business that is based around service provision. 

The Scots want devolution, the Welsh retain pride in their nationality through their language (and their flag is not even represented on the Union Jack. Even that our national symbol has been hijacked by far right nationalist parties. 

My only hope that out of the euphoria of the weekend that we're not only proud to be British but as a nation we remember what it means to be British. 

Pioneers, thought leaders, hard workers, diligent, loyal... other adjectives welcomed


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## bobmac (Jun 6, 2012)

Except now we're not from Britain anymore, we're from the UK. Just one more thing we've copied from the good old US of A :angry:


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## Tiger (Jun 6, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Except now we're not from Britain anymore, we're from the UK. Just one more thing we've copied from the good old US of A :angry:
		
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Was that because the term 'Great' Britain was deemed to be an oxymoron?


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## bigslice (Jun 6, 2012)

would think everyone is proud of their home country, im proud to be Scottish but will vote NO when the time comes. plus will support England in the euros this friday till they get to the quarters and then support the other team.


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## MizunoGreyhound (Jun 6, 2012)

I find it quite frustrating that a Welshman can say he is Welsh and a Scotsman can say he is Scottish and not get into any trouble at all, but if an Englishman says he is English.........
Sadly, he has to say he is British.

The pride seems to have gone from our nation as a whole. Someone has something nice, so someone else has to vandalise or steal it. Very few people look after things now as we live in a throw away society.

Morals, principles and common sense are found in fewer and fewer people these days.

I used to be proud to be British and all it used to stand for. Now, we are laughed at by the rest of the world.

Sorry for the rant.


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## Val (Jun 6, 2012)

British by birth and Scottish by the grace of god


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## Dodger (Jun 6, 2012)

Asking the wrong man here...proud to be Scottish full stop.


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## Aztecs27 (Jun 6, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Asking the wrong man here...proud to be Scottish full stop.
		
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What?! I DID NOT see this coming!


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## Monty_Brown (Jun 6, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Asking the wrong man here...proud to be Scottish full stop.
		
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The Scottish sense of national pride is something that I look at with a degree of envy as the English/British sense of identity seems to have been sadly misappropriated by the far right in recent years, although I see signs of that thankfully changing and a sesne of legitimate pride returning, partly thanks to events liek the jubilee.

Dodger, can I ask what are the qualities or aspects of your heritage that make you proud to be Scottish? I am NOT being sarcastic, I genuinely am interested. :cheers:


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## Yerman (Jun 6, 2012)

Irish by family, english by birth and proud to be Irish, English(ish), British, European and the human race. To me it means being happy to be a member of the group of people that also share the label. Don't feel it very often but really got the tingle seeing the olympic flame in Ireland today and the warmth it received. 
Diamond Jubilee - no chance, always been a republican and it seems only a southern england delusion.


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## CliveW (Jun 6, 2012)

Tiger said:



			The Scots want devolution,
		
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The Scots have had devolution since July 1999.


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## JustOne (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm not _proud_ to be British, but I am GLAD that I'm English.


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## bobmac (Jun 6, 2012)

Dodger, her Madge is coming after you


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## chrisd (Jun 6, 2012)

JustOne said:



			I'm not _proud_ to be British, but I am GLAD that I'm English.
		
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I'm English and proud too. The UK is not where I was born it was in England and I am happy for you Scots, Welsh and Irish and the way that you support your own countries, I hope that you don't mind me doing the same for England!


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## Dodger (Jun 6, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:



			The Scottish sense of national pride is something that I look at with a degree of envy as the English/British sense of identity seems to have been sadly misappropriated by the far right in recent years, although I see signs of that thankfully changing and a sesne of legitimate pride returning, partly thanks to events liek the jubilee.

Dodger, can I ask what are the qualities or aspects of your heritage that make you proud to be Scottish? I am NOT being sarcastic, I genuinely am interested. :cheers:
		
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Sod all to do with anything other than being proud to be a Scotsman,a part of a race,an identity,if we had no heritage and a drab landscape I would still be proud to be Scottish.

Glad all the pish is over for the time being......Berwick has been like living at bloody Ibrox for the last week,respite for a wee while til the Euros and Olympics start it up all over again.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 6, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I hope that you don't mind me doing the same for England!
		
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 Not at all , good for you mate , im suprised how many prefer being called English rather than British !! real eye opener , me im glad to be Irish as we seem to have some great appeal to the world , singing , dancing , laughing , great craic indivduals , pity we also  have a country full of scroats & scumbags who travel abroad & live of the illusion  set by the decent irish people


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## Wolfman (Jun 6, 2012)

I have one word for the massive shift............. Dilution

Thats the reason we are seldom proud to be British as its lost until we get a gentle nudge as a reminder such as last weekend


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## Tiger (Jun 6, 2012)

CliveW said:



			The Scots have had devolution since July 1999.
		
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I'm sorry Clive I typed this is a hurry, I meant to say Independence, although this Devolution Max (fat free Independence) concept is politically fascinating...


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## AuburnWarrior (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm English, not British.  I wasn't born in Britain, I was born in England.  
Some years ago I'd have died for my country, I don't think I would now.  I'd have no idea what I was fighting for.  Freedom - yes, without a doubt but I seriously question whether in this self obsessed country where arrogance is #1 whether the same could be said for the rest of society.  The war heroes of yesteryear must be turning in their collective graves with how this country and it's inhabitants have turned in to.
Was I proud this weekend?  I'm not too sure that I was.  Yes, it was great to see the flags and the unity coupled with the community spirit that is so lacking in everyday life but, throughout the celebrations, I couldn't stop remembering that this country has far too many problems that make me feel genuinely sad on an almost daily basis.  Maybe the point of this weekend was to forget the problems.  I couldn't.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 6, 2012)

AuburnWarrior said:



			I'm English, not British. I wasn't born in Britain, I was born in England. 
Some years ago I'd have died for my country, I don't think I would now. I'd have no idea what I was fighting for. Freedom - yes, without a doubt but I seriously question whether in this self obsessed country where arrogance is #1 whether the same could be said for the rest of society. The war heroes of yesteryear must be turning in their collective graves with how this country and it's inhabitants have turned in to.
Was I proud this weekend? I'm not too sure that I was. Yes, it was great to see the flags and the unity coupled with the community spirit that is so lacking in everyday life but, throughout the celebrations, I couldn't stop remembering that this country has far too many problems that make me feel genuinely sad on an almost daily basis. Maybe the point of this weekend was to forget the problems. I couldn't.
		
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Totally agree.


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## Val (Jun 6, 2012)

JustOne said:



			I'm not _proud_ to be British, but I am GLAD that I'm English.
		
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I'm glad your English too


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## Hobbit (Jun 6, 2012)

As others have said, "I'm English and proud to be so." I'm also very privileged to have some great friends from elsewhere in the UK and Ireland. Do I feel the same affinity towards my friends from Europe...? I'm proud to be British, and to feel that affinity with others in the UK.


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## DaveM (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm English born in England. I alway cross out British on forms and put English down. But I am happy also to be part of great Britain.

Just as an aside it always amuses me when people of Irish, Welsh, Indian, or any other country of family origin. But who were born and bred in England and have never been to the other country. Say they are from there and not English! Sorry no disrespect meant just amusement and I love to have a dig at them as well.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 7, 2012)

DaveM said:



			.

Just as an aside it always amuses me when people of Irish  family origin. But who were born and bred in England and have never been to the other country. Say they are from there and not English! .
		
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You leave our soccer team alone you .....................


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## Aztecs27 (Jun 7, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			You leave our soccer team alone you .....................
		
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 Bravo sir!


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2012)

To turn it on it's head slightly, how do you define yourself, off the top of my head and without much forethought:-

1. Scouse - defo no.1.
2. My footy team
3. British
4. English
5. Catholic
6. Champagne socialist
7. White, and used to have freckles.

I define myself as European, only when the ryder cup is on. I dont see myself much as a "northerner" although from the north, obviously. Great grandparents were possibly from Ireland, but dont buy into all that Faux-irish thing that loads of others buy into. 

The missus has a friend who, whilst born in England, has a faux support via familial heritage with Wales, Scotland and Ireland, and normally supports any of them when in a sporting environment against England.

I think one of the reasons it is "sexier" to be from the gaelic nations, is due to English oppression over the centuries. Also, from reading lots of history books and magazines, it is plainly obvious that most British history is written from a Anglo-centric and London point of view. I am proud to be British, as I think that what we all achieved together as a United Kingdom was massive, although obviously some very sinister parts as well. 

How do you define yourself, religion, colour,race,birth country,non-birth country, politics, region, star trek language?

Blue touch paper is lit....


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## DCB (Jun 7, 2012)

The Scots want devolution​

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It'll be interesting to see just how many actually do want to go it alone if and when wee Eck gets the question asked in a manner that gives him the best chance.

I don't think the numbers for it will be as large as some people think


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## sJoe (Jun 7, 2012)

Welsh through and through, born and  bred as they say, but still proud to be British..
Cymraeg i'r carn, anwyd ac a fagwyd fel y maent yn ei ddweud, ond yn dal yn falch o fod yn Brydeinig.


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## DaveM (Jun 7, 2012)

Proud to be a born&bred Lancastrian. Nuff said (old boundarys that is, Not how that woman changed them).


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## JustOne (Jun 7, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I am proud to be British, as I think that what we all achieved together as a United Kingdom was massive,
		
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What was that then?

United? I don't think so..... not sure what is united about a Welsh Assembly and a Scottish parliament.
We are an ISLAND and we should be ONE COUNTRY... and that _should_ probably includes Ireland. Just blanketing a name such as UK or Great Britain doesn't make them united.... that's like saying Chelsea and Man U are "Top 5" and should therefore be buddies.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			We are an ISLAND and we should be ONE COUNTRY... and that _should_ probably includes Ireland. .
		
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Just wondering why you think that ? not saying its a good or bad thing , in fairness the mess our lot are making of this country we  possibly couldnt be any worse off anyhow , ha


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## JustOne (Jun 7, 2012)

If you are not joined then you want to remain what exactly?...independant? something different? something special? What is Irish? How do you define it.... is it a religion thing? something to do with tradition? something from the past? I don't want to be English just because we used to burn witches or send people to 'the Tower'.

I don't want England to be independant from Ireland, Scotland or Wales.. why should it be? makes no sense whatsoever... unless you want to hold on to something you _think_ is important instead of thinking FORWARDS.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			What was that then?

United? I don't think so..... not sure what is united about a Welsh Assembly and a Scottish parliament.
We are an ISLAND and we should be ONE COUNTRY... and that _should_ probably includes Ireland. Just blanketing a name such as UK or Great Britain doesn't make them united.... that's like saying Chelsea and Man U are "Top 5" and should therefore be buddies.
		
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The industrial revolution for one, sanitation, thousands of inventions, trade unionism, pensions and working class improvements and education, literature, our language, sports, magna carta forming the basis for human rights.

The phrase was used in the past tense. 

I think the main reason Ireland has not felt part of the Uk is due to religious harassment by many Kings/Queens over many centuries and their religion is a major part of how they have been defined. I think it is still against the law in the UK for a Catholic to be the monarch or the prime minister, even nowadays.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 7, 2012)

Well we are independant ,no we are nothing  special  . What is Irish ? wel without breaking into history & 1916 etc its an independance our grandparents fought for , & i guess we owe it to them to strive to maintain it , so you are probably right in it being a thing fom the past , Living in the past is not a good thing tho .. 
mind you in saying that , what they would make of the clowns that have been running the country is anyone guess , 

I can see positives for us of  it all being one ,in financial & business terms.. but one massive negative would be military wise , i do not in any way want to be disrespectful to any member of the british military alive or passed on but i see our neutrality as a good thing (just a personal opinion) from the outside i think your government are too quick to please the americans & send your troops to fight wars that are not necessiarly their war to fight , (again just my opinion)

I dont think England would want Ireland to be part of the UK , mainly because it would be of no benifit to the UK , 
I cant explain Irish over British or English but you got to admit Irish , Scotish & Welsh abroad are for some unknown reason looked upon more favourably than if you are English .. i do believe this is not fiar as you should be judged as an individual rather than the country you were born in


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## JustOne (Jun 7, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			i do not in any way want to be disrespectful to any member of the british military alive or passed on but i see our neutrality as a good thing (just a personal opinion) from the outside i think your government are too quick to please the americans & send your troops to fight wars that are not necessiarly their war to fight , (again just my opinion)
		
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Isn't it pathetic that in the 'modern world' it all comes down to FIGHTING.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			What was that then?

United? I don't think so..... not sure what is united about a Welsh Assembly and a Scottish parliament.
We are an ISLAND and we should be ONE COUNTRY... and that _should_ probably includes Ireland. Just blanketing a name such as UK or Great Britain doesn't make them united.... that's like saying Chelsea and Man U are "Top 5" and should therefore be buddies.
		
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Actually there is two main islands, and even the other one is still split.

Countries like Haiti are one half of one island, and they are still split. Not saying it's right or wrong.

The thing is, Ireland still remained mainly Catholic, when the rest of the Uk where either Protestant/Calvinist/Presbyterian which is the one of the main reasons it wanted to be independent.

The first nationalists who wanted independence where actually Irish based Protestants, ex Uk pats.


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## Dodger (Jun 7, 2012)

I am not seeing why,seeing as we are an Island,we should be one??

If that's the thinking behind it hell why not just join the whole of Europe together as one too.:mmm:


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## bladeplayer (Jun 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Isn't it pathetic that in the 'modern world' it all comes down to FIGHTING.
		
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There are times to fight & defend whats important & whats right , there are times to stay out of it , this could end up being a very emotive issue for some so i wont go deeper into my own beliefs on this because as i am irish it does not affect me or my family currently ..


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## bladeplayer (Jun 7, 2012)

Dodger said:



			If that's the thinking behind it hell why not just join the whole of Europe together as one too.:mmm:
		
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dont think that experiment is working too well for us Alan :angry:


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## Ethan (Jun 7, 2012)

Tiger said:



			Was that because the term 'Great' Britain was deemed to be an oxymoron? 

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Great simply means the big part as compared to the smaller part, now Brittany in France.


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## JustOne (Jun 7, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			this could end up being a very emotive issue for some so i wont go deeper into my own beliefs..
		
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I know that feeling also.... so I'll not shoot my mouth off, don't want to upset any narrow minded Sco.... erm, people.


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## Farneyman (Jun 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			We are an ISLAND and we should be ONE COUNTRY... and that _should_ probably includes Ireland.
		
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Last time I looked the British isles were made up of 2 islands.

Proud an Irishman as the next.  Loved the Jobbilee celebrations as I got an extra day off work... Whens the next one due lol


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## JustOne (Jun 7, 2012)

Farneyman said:



			Last time I looked the British isles were made up of 2 islands.
		
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Try telling that to the people on the Isle of White... Isle of Man, Shetlands blah blah blah

of course we could be juvenile in our discussions and split hairs all day....... 

was my post too complex or just not accurate enough?  Pah!


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## Farneyman (Jun 7, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Try telling that to the people on the Isle of White... Isle of Man, Shetlands blah blah blah

of course we could be juvenile in our discussions and split hairs all day....... 

was my post too complex or just not accurate enough?  Pah!
		
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Your avatar tells me enough of how you think and I don't agree with you. Simples.

Over and out...


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## JustOne (Jun 7, 2012)

Farneyman said:



			Your avatar tells me enough of how you think
		
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LOL,... avatar = mindreader?.... so you are 2" tall and get flicked a lot?


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## wrighty1874 (Jun 7, 2012)

I wonder if it's because they top the heart disease league, or their sense of humour!!!



Monty_Brown said:



			The Scottish sense of national pride is something that I look at with a degree of envy as the English/British sense of identity seems to have been sadly misappropriated by the far right in recent years, although I see signs of that thankfully changing and a sesne of legitimate pride returning, partly thanks to events liek the jubilee.

Dodger, can I ask what are the qualities or aspects of your heritage that make you proud to be Scottish? I am NOT being sarcastic, I genuinely am interested. :cheers:
		
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## munro007 (Jun 7, 2012)

Valentino said:



			British by birth and Scottish by the grace of god 

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I couldn't have put it better Valentino. :thup:


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## drawboy (Jun 7, 2012)

I've read all the posts so far, what a load of rhubarb, we live together, there have been wrongs on all sides in history, but it is history. We are the envy of the rest of the world, regardless of what we think should happen we do all live together and will continue to do so. anything else is hypothetical. English,Scottish,Welsh & Irish all live in each others countries in peace and should continue to do so. Me I'm English, proud of all of our achievements in bringing so much good to the rest of the world, long may it continue. I'd rather argue over Are you a dog or cat person? we'll get more sense.


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## JustOne (Jun 7, 2012)

drawboy said:



			I've read all the posts so far, what a load of rhubarb, we live together, there have been wrongs on all sides in history, but it is history..
		
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I agree..... The English have moved on since then, however.................


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## MegaSteve (Jun 7, 2012)

drawboy said:



			I'd rather argue over Are you a dog or cat person?
		
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I am a pussy person myself ...


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## Scadge (Jun 7, 2012)

I am proud to be British.  Each of the countries of the British Isles have a unique identity and culture but even the fierce rivalry between us, thankfully mostly confined to sports these days, tends to bond us together rather than separate us.  

The history and pagentry that British people can point to is the envy of the world and we can point to the pursuit of a liberal democracy, aspirational meritocracy, the welfare state and art and literature, sport and leisure which I believe set the modern standard.

As for domestic rivalry of course I want England to beat Scotland, Wales and Ireland but I think we would all be poorer for greater independence and I don't mean in the economic/financial sense.  So, I'll be shouting for every British athlete at the Olympics (not because if they're British only if they win, but because win, lose, draw they are British and should enjoy my unequivocal support in what I hope is the icing on a very British summer cake).


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 7, 2012)

Scadge said:



			I am proud to be British.  Each of the countries of the British Isles have a unique identity and culture but even the fierce rivalry between us, thankfully mostly confined to sports these days, tends to bond us together rather than separate us.  

The history and pagentry that British people can point to is the envy of the world and we can point to the pursuit of a liberal democracy, aspirational meritocracy, the welfare state and art and literature, sport and leisure which I believe set the modern standard.

As for domestic rivalry of course I want England to beat Scotland, Wales and Ireland but I think we would all be poorer for greater independence and I don't mean in the economic/financial sense.  So, I'll be shouting for every British athlete at the Olympics (not because if they're British only if they win, but because win, lose, draw they are British and should enjoy my unequivocal support in what I hope is the icing on a very British summer cake).
		
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Agree with much of that.

Except when we get beat in an event, can we revert (like normal) to calling them Scottish, Welsh etc.


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## bigslice (Jun 7, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Agree with much of that.

Except when we get beat in an event, can we revert (like normal) to calling them Scottish, Welsh etc. 

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or english:ears:


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## DappaDonDave (Jun 8, 2012)

How can be be proud when the Syrian government and going round killing villages including women and children, and all we are doing is saying, that's not very nice is it!

Why was libya so quickly read the riot act but Syria...nope. Just continue.

One guy kills and eats his mate and it's a world police hunt. One man (and his army) kill hundreds/thousands and what happens?


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## chrisd (Jun 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			How can be be proud when the Syrian government and going round killing villages including women and children, and all we are doing is saying, that's not very nice is it!

Why was libya so quickly read the riot act but Syria...nope. Just continue.

One guy kills and eats his mate and it's a world police hunt. One man (and his army) kill hundreds/thousands and what happens?
		
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I find that a strange argument. I am proud to be English and loathe what is going on in Syria (and other places) but we are not the World Policemen and cannot stomp into every country that abuse human rights and "put it right" . At least we are at the forefront of highlighting this and, unlike Russia and China, dont pretend that it's just local terrorists causing trouble. 

I am proud that I live in England with a hugely more free lifestyle than most other countries afford their own residents and what happens in Syria, Russia, Burma, etc etc won't change that


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 8, 2012)

bigslice said:



			or english:ears:
		
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Oh, so you all do that as well. Don't blame you.

Hope your keeping well fella, any new PB's since you beat us the other week? I've put that card into to your h/cap sec!!!


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## DappaDonDave (Jun 8, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I find that a strange argument. I am proud to be English and loathe what is going on in Syria (and other places) but we are not the World Policemen and cannot stomp into every country that abuse human rights and "put it right" . At least we are at the forefront of highlighting this and, unlike Russia and China, dont pretend that it's just local terrorists causing trouble. 

I am proud that I live in England with a hugely more free lifestyle than most other countries afford their own residents and what happens in Syria, Russia, Burma, etc etc won't change that
		
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So you're telling me team America doesn't really exist?


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## Hobbit (Jun 8, 2012)

DappaDonDave said:



			How can be be proud when the Syrian government and going round killing villages including women and children, and all we are doing is saying, that's not very nice is it!

Why was libya so quickly read the riot act but Syria...nope. Just continue.

One guy kills and eats his mate and it's a world police hunt. One man (and his army) kill hundreds/thousands and what happens?
		
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Libya has oil, Syria doesn't.

That said, if you want the gun boat to go in are you willing to lead the charge?


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## DappaDonDave (Jun 8, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			Libya has oil, Syria doesn't.

That said, if you want the gun boat to go in are you willing to lead the charge?
		
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Hell yeah, ou should see my call of duty kill/death ratio. If I had to capture a flag...they'd stand no chance


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## CliveW (Jun 8, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			Libya has oil, Syria doesn't.
		
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Incorrect. Oil and Petrolium are two of it's main exports. Although nothing like that of Lybia, it exports to China and Russia. Say no more.


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## bigslice (Jun 8, 2012)

plus it said on the news that syria have far more modern weapons than libya did


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 8, 2012)

bigslice said:



			plus it said on the news that syria have far more modern weapons than libya did
		
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Proabably because Russia have recently delivered over Â£350 Mill of hardware.


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## potnryan (Jun 9, 2012)

I was born and bred in Scotland but class myself equally as British/Scottish "UNITED" kingdom. Say no to independance


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## JustOne (Jun 9, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I am *proud* that I live in England with a hugely more free lifestyle than most other countries afford their own residents and what happens in Syria, Russia, Burma, etc etc won't change that
		
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Is that proud or GLAD (takes me back to my 1st post)

I can't be proud to be British (or English) when everyone is bemoaning how they want to be independent, being proud involves far too many other people most of which rarely think beyond the filling they want in their pie. I'm not proud of what others have achieved before me as that would be only taking the good things into consideration however I am GLAD that the good things occured, and indeed some of the necessary bad things.

I'm GLAD to be ENGLISH as I don't need to watch my children starve to death or die of preventable disease, I'm glad I have (relative) freedom of speech, can just about walk the streets at night and don't have to put up with the lekky going off at 9pm.... also glad there's not too many poisonous creatures crawling around into my golf shoes 

I'd certainly LIKE to be proud of being British by feeling some kind of unity but I'm not a great believer of being proud of a location, that's just lines on a map, and in the most part..... ignorance. So what if my great, great grandad lived up a mountain, herded sheep, distilled a brew from some crops and danced around a bonfire every night singing songs in a dialect only the 50 people that lived nearby could understand?... big deal!


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## 19thagain (Jun 9, 2012)

Just a wee aside re the Scottish vote for Independence ... Any one watching Question Time last night may have noticed that over 50% of all speakers from the floor were English, which I would assume will translate into a NO vote for us up here.

This is indeed very common . large English contingent in most Highland areas - to the point where a wee island in the Orkneys had a bit of trouble when the local Social Services took all the children into care, it did make national news at the time and it transpired that the ONLY Scot on the Island was the minister - and the Social Services were wrong!!

Just trying to highlight how the YES vote has no chance despite the majority of Scots wanting it!


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