# Ronnie the failure



## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

Ronnie, your an absolute clown, fraudster, incompetent manager who is so far out of your depth its embarrassing.


Do the decent thing and stand down. The vultures are circling now!


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## Slab (Nov 6, 2015)

Ronnie who, is this someone at your office/work?


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 6, 2015)

Got to be referring to Ronnie Moore, manager of "them who hang monkeys" 

He was kicked out of Tranmere last year for breaking betting regulations.
and Hartlepool havn't had a sparkling start to the season.


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## Norrin Radd (Nov 6, 2015)

Jeff Stelling for monkey hanger manager.


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## GreiginFife (Nov 6, 2015)

Its the problem with Scottish football Jacko, sitting on top of the SPFL (or whatever they call it today) and reigning champions of a league that they should never lose. So he can sit and say, well it was a bad night, unlicky to lose amd all the hyperbole that managers spout but then use the "but staying at the top of the league as thats where we are" back up to justify his position. I totally agree though that losing twice to Molde is not good enough (and the did my 9 fold, not that I'm holding a grudge )


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

Greiginfife, you and I could manage a team to victory in the SPL if we had a budget 20 times that of your nearest rivals. 

He is out of his depth, absolutely clueless.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2015)

Ahhh, Celtic. Leave Ronnie Moore alone.


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## ger147 (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Greiginfife, you and I could manage a team to victory in the SPL if we had a budget 20 times that of your nearest rivals. 

He is out of his depth, absolutely clueless.
		
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Every decent player Celtic have signed in the past 5 years has been sold on very quickly for a profit to balance the books. The natural outcome of such a policy is you end up with a squad full of dross. You then hire a cheap option talent free manager to run the team so and you end up where you are today - plenty good enough to win the 1 horse SPFL race (Kevin Bridges description of Show Jumping is my favourite) but complete dross when they play even a semi-decent side in Europe.

It's only gonna get worse.


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## Slab (Nov 6, 2015)

ah, ok got it now... might have been a more interesting thread if it was someone from your work


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 6, 2015)

Wonder who will be the first to mention Liverpool in this thread  


oops...that'll be me then


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

Slab said:



			ah, ok got it now... might have been a more interesting thread if it was someone from your work 

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Why would I discuss someone from my work on a forum?


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## Tongo (Nov 6, 2015)

Celtic, or rather their fans, are one of those clubs living on past glories and need to realise that they are not a major force in Europe any more but are just one of the also-rans.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Celtic, or rather their fans, are one of those clubs living on past glories and need to realise that they are not a major force in Europe any more but are just one of the also-rans.
		
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Totally agree but as a club Celtic are still a million times bigger tha Molde and have more global appeal than the likes of Spurs and Palace, Everton etc.


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## Tongo (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Totally agree but as a club Celtic are still a million times bigger tha Molde and have more global appeal than the likes of Spurs and Palace, Everton etc.
		
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And it's that sort of bluff as to why Celtic lose against teams like Molde. From a playing standard point of view one could argue that they are similar. The Scottish league is mediocre at best. Celtic have to realise that having a global appeal doesn't make a blind bit of difference when it comes to what happens on the pitch and the players playing for the club.


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## Slab (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Why would I discuss someone from my work on a forum?
		
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Well that joke that didn't work I guess, sorry 
(although I suppose you could fit that description to Ronny too )


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## Tashyboy (Nov 6, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Wonder who will be the first to mention Liverpool in this thread  


oops...that'll be me then  

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Ronnie Klopp he's only just gone there why sack him. Give the locals a chance to nick his wheel trims before he's fired.


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## GreiginFife (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Greiginfife, you and I could manage a team to victory in the SPL if we had a budget 20 times that of your nearest rivals. 

He is out of his depth, absolutely clueless.
		
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For his salary I would give it a good go


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

Tongo said:



			And it's that sort of bluff as to why Celtic lose against teams like Molde. From a playing standard point of view one could argue that they are similar. The Scottish league is mediocre at best. Celtic have to realise that having a global appeal doesn't make a blind bit of difference when it comes to what happens on the pitch and the players playing for the club.
		
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Pants.

Sky Sports has created the divide which has stopped Celtic competing at a higher level. If Celtic had access to the same level of funding that English Championship and even more so Premiership clubs they would be financially miles and miles better off than Everton, Southampton, etc etc. Never underestimate a club like Celtic and its global appeal. 

Typical blinkered view from people on the outside throwing stones at the Scottish game. 

Up here we know the financial limitations and lack of investment is hampering our game. We know the product is average and the league in itself probably needs restructured. We accept that as soon as a "gem" is discovered poop teams like Bristol City and the likes can offer more money. 

Celtic qualifying for the group stages of the Champions League is a huge success for Scottish Football.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 6, 2015)

Sky haven't created the divide. It is a demand situation and the demand for the SPL is not large enough to generate the money that other leagues do. There is no sinister plot at hand. If enough people wanted to watch Celtic and the SPL then various tv companies would bid for it and the income would rise.

Is the talk of a Nordic league dead? If you combined Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Scotland, all similar levels, then you would create a good league and all would benefit. Perhaps more tv income then.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sky haven't created the divide. It is a demand situation and the demand for the SPL is not large enough to generate the money that other leagues do. There is no sinister plot at hand. If enough people wanted to watch Celtic and the SPL then various tv companies would bid for it and the income would rise.

Is the talk of a Nordic league dead? If you combined Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Scotland, all similar levels, then you would create a good league and all would benefit. Perhaps more tv income then.
		
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Supply and demand go along with the general population of the nation. Nobody said there was an agenda or plot. The fact is until the big money got pumped into European football and Sky backed the EPL to the hilt Scottish clubs could hold their own to a certain degree. No bitterness, no misty eyes, just the way it goes.


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## davidy233 (Nov 6, 2015)

I thought Molde were very decent in both games, they passed the ball well and broke at pace.

Celtic losing Van Dyke and Denayer and replacing them with Boyata and Simunovic has hurt them big time - Van Dyke sale will look good on their balance sheet though.

Moaning about SKY giving English football a massive advantage doesn't do any good though - it's not going to change and Celtic (or any other Scottish club) won't ever be getting a big slice of that Murdoch money.


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## ger147 (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Supply and demand go along with the general population of the nation. Nobody said there was an agenda or plot. The fact is until the big money got pumped into European football and Sky backed the EPL to the hilt Scottish clubs could hold their own to a certain degree. No bitterness, no misty eyes, just the way it goes.
		
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How much Sky TV money do Molde get?


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## Val (Nov 6, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Celtic, or rather their fans, are one of those clubs living on past glories and need to realise that they are not a major force in Europe any more but are just one of the also-rans.
		
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You mean like Man U, Liverpool etc etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2015)

Celtic need a strong Rangers in the Prem


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2015)

Ha Ha Ha, what a wonderful thread, you can't compete in Europe because of Sky, if you had the same as PL teams you coukd compete and then you accuse the English of throwing stones north! Get over yourself, fact is you have had no credible opposition for years and your domination of Scottish football is meant to translate in to Europe, 
Your not good enough, you're living off past glory and it was more than likely that money from south of the border buying your best in years gone by put you's in a strong financial position.
Accept it and rebuild your leagues rather than moaning about us.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Celtic need a strong Rangers in the Prem
		
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How long will that take though?  

Rangers may well look to buy the likes of Michael O'Halloran from St Johnstone to try and minimise the likelihood of Saints taking points off them next season - and so try and buy 2nd place in the Scottish premiership as a minimum; and so it is for any decent 'game-changing' player any Scottish club outside of the OF develops or unearths. That's how it will be - it's how it has always been.  We shrug our shoulders at the inevitable - even although Rangers might be running at a huge loss they'll still manage to find the money to buy these players, as they always have.  C'est la vie.


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## Val (Nov 6, 2015)

Expectations need to be revised for Celtic fans. A good year is getting to the CL group stage, an acceptable year is Europa past christmas, anything less is failure and should see the manager under pressure especially if it's the same failure  2 years on a trot


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2015)

Val said:



			Expectations need to be revised for Celtic fans. A good year is getting to the CL group stage, an acceptable year is Europa past christmas, anything less is failure and should see the manager under pressure especially if it's the same failure  2 years on a trot
		
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Apparently Dalia is building Celtic for next season's European challenge


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Ha Ha Ha, what a wonderful thread, you can't compete in Europe because of Sky, if you had the same as PL teams you coukd compete and then you accuse the English of throwing stones north! Get over yourself, fact is you have had no credible opposition for years and your domination of Scottish football is meant to translate in to Europe, 
Your not good enough, you're living off past glory and it was more than likely that money from south of the border buying your best in years gone by put you's in a strong financial position.
Accept it and rebuild your leagues rather than moaning about us.
		
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Level playing field Celtic will more than hold their own in Premiership and Europe.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			How long will that take though?  

Rangers may well look to buy the likes of Michael O'Halloran from St Johnstone to try and minimise the likelihood of Saints taking points off them next season - and so try and buy 2nd place in the Scottish premiership as a minimum; and so it is for any decent 'game-changing' player any Scottish club outside of the OF develops or unearths. That's how it will be - it's how it has always been.  We shrug our shoulders at the inevitable - even although Rangers might be running at a huge loss they'll still manage to find the money to buy these players, as they always have.  C'est la vie.
		
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Why would anyone want the cheating noisy neighbours back?


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## davidy233 (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Level playing field Celtic will more than hold their own in Premiership and Europe.
		
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No they won't because

A) They'll never get the chance to play in the Premiership

and 

B) - because of that they won't get a level playing field


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

davidy233 said:



			No they won't because

A) They'll never get the chance to play in the Premiership

and 

B) - because of that they won't get a level playing field
		
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True.

Still we in Scotland are used to being poop! Christ we don't even have a decent golfer these days!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Level playing field Celtic will more than hold their own in Premiership and Europe.
		
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And if Everton, Southampton or Palace had Chelsea's money...........etc
What about giving the other teams in Scotland a level playing field, you's and Rangers bought the best Scottish players from the smaller clubs for years!


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			And if Everton, Southampton or Palace had Chelsea's money...........etc
What about giving the other teams in Scotland a level playing field, you's and Rangers bought the best Scottish players from the smaller clubs for years!
		
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They'd still be above Chelsea! NEXT!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			They'd still be above Chelsea! NEXT!
		
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Next will be your answer to the OF taking the best off the rest&#128515;


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 7, 2015)

davidy233 said:



			No they won't because

A) They'll never get the chance to play in the Premiership

and 

B) - because of that they won't get a level playing field
		
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Please tell me you do not believe that Celtic could not bring more to the EPL than the likes of Bournmouth, Blackpool, Wigan, QPR, Watford etc.
I think Rangers are holed below the water line now and no matter will probably never be a strong force in Scotland again. 

A UK league is an obvious answer, after all Welsh teams are already in the EPL.
Perhaps a Belfast francise. and a BPL with two lower leagues North and South.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Please tell me you do not believe that Celtic could not bring more to the EPL than the likes of Bournmouth, Blackpool, Wigan, QPR, Watford etc.
I think Rangers are holed below the water line now and no matter will probably never be a strong force in Scotland again. 

A UK league is an obvious answer, after all Welsh teams are already in the EPL.
Perhaps a Belfast francise. and a BPL with two lower leagues North and South.
		
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Why does there need to be a UK league ?

The Prem doesn't need Celtic or a team from Belfast etc


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## Val (Nov 7, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why does there need to be a UK league ?

The Prem doesn't need Celtic or a team from Belfast etc
		
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Does it need Swansea?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Val said:



			Does it need Swansea?
		
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No it doesn't "need" Swansea or indeed any other non English Club. No idea why they joined the English league in the 1900's all those years ago but it seems they earned the right to be where they are right now.

For Celtic or indeed any other club to enter the football league then they would need to start from the bottom rung of the ladder and work their way up. 

Will be interesting to see why Doon thinks a UK league is the obvious answer ? When it isn't needed for the English leagues


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## MegaSteve (Nov 7, 2015)

Val said:



			Does it need Swansea?
		
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Having found it to be one of the least welcoming places to visit for footie...

I'd say... No!


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 7, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No it doesn't "need" Swansea or indeed any other non English Club. No idea why they joined the English league in the 1900's all those years ago but it seems they earned the right to be where they are right now.

For Celtic or indeed any other club to enter the football league then they would need to start from the bottom rung of the ladder and work their way up. 

Will be interesting to see why Doon thinks a UK league is the obvious answer ? When it isn't needed for the English leagues
		
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For starters the average attendances and TV money will be greatly increased,


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			For starters the average attendances and TV money will be greatly increased,
		
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Why would the Telly money "greatly increase" ?

The English clubs wouldn't get anymore fans into their grounds as they are pretty much a sell out most weeks. Adding Celtic or an Irish team wouldn't change that 

Right now the Prem has the massive telly money and high attendances - so why is a UK league the obvious answer - or should I take a guess - because you would like a Scottish team to have a piece of the action ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			For starters the average attendances and TV money will be greatly increased,
		
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Best give Leeds a free PL place then!
Lets be honest as Phil as said we don't need Celtic or any other Scottish team or any Irish team,
Actually UEFA wouldn't allow it, they allow the Welsh teams who have been members for years an exemption and if we had a joint league we would lose our individual national teams. The Welsh teams in the FA are not allowed to enter there own cup competitions.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 7, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would the Telly money "greatly increase" ?

The English clubs wouldn't get anymore fans into their grounds as they are pretty much a sell out most weeks. Adding Celtic or an Irish team wouldn't change that 

Right now the Prem has the massive telly money and high attendances - so why is a UK league the obvious answer - or should I take a guess - because you would like a Scottish team to have a piece of the action ?
		
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It is pretty obvious to most that the teams promoted to the EPL either go straight back down or will be relegated in a couple of years.
The product is starting to get quite stale and could do with a freshen up.

Choice of televised game.....which one would you rather watch.....Spurs v Celtic or Norwich v Watford.

Waynama, Van Dyck, Naismith, etc have proved that top level SPL players can survive quite comfortably in the EPL


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 7, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Best give Leeds a free PL place then!
Lets be honest as Phil as said we don't need Celtic or any other Scottish team or any Irish team,
Actually UEFA wouldn't allow it, they allow the Welsh teams who have been members for years an exemption and if we had a joint league we would lose our individual national teams. The Welsh teams in the FA are not allowed to enter there own cup competitions.
		
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What is wrong with losing our 'national' teams and having a British team?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It is pretty obvious to most that the teams promoted to the EPL either go straight back down or will be relegated in a couple of years.
The product is starting to get quite stale and could do with a freshen up.

Choice of televised game.....which one would you rather watch.....Spurs v Celtic or Norwich v Watford.

Waynama, Van Dyck, Naismith, etc have proved that top level SPL players can survive quite comfortably in the EPL
		
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Stale ? Says who ? Viewer figures have increased , money increasing - on what level has it gone "stale"

Not sure what your last paragraph has to do with it but yes some players have come from the Scottish Prem and done well - no doubt there is a list of players that have been poor.

So again I'll ask again - Why do the English clubs need a UK League ? 

Isn't not correct that the only people to benefit would be Scottish team so that they can leap on the money bandwagon that the Prem has created ( because it's a product that sells )


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What is wrong with losing our 'national' teams and having a British team?
		
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you are joking...


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What is wrong with losing our 'national' teams and having a British team?
		
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Is that so maybe a Scottish player could go to a finals ? - then again would any of them get in a British Team ? Possibly not


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## Val (Nov 7, 2015)

There was appetite a few years ago from the top English sides and the broadcasters to have Celtic and Rangers play in England and all that stopped it was self preservation of struggling teams because potentially 2 would be going to a lower league.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Val said:



			There was appetite a few years ago from the top English sides and the broadcasters to have Celtic and Rangers play in England and all that stopped it was self preservation of struggling teams because potentially 2 would be going to a lower league.
		
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If that was to ever happen then I don't think it would be right for them to be transported straight into the Prem - surely would have to work their way up through the leagues ?


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## Jacko_G (Nov 7, 2015)

Ostrich scenario.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2015)

It's never going to happen. Too much to lose in terms of the national squads going and I'm sorry but hell will freeze over and I'll be a Cat 1 golfer before the FA sell out an England national side for the sake of a British league. IF and again I don't think this will happen, there is a European League with a guarantee that each FA can keep a national side then it would certainly be more beneficial for Celtic. For me there biggest problem is simply a lack of decent opposition week in and week out and Rangers coming back isn't going to change that. The lack of competitive edge is apparent when Celtic are in Europe


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Ostrich scenario.
		
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In respect to which point Jacko ?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What is wrong with losing our 'national' teams and having a British team?
		
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Then you's could wear a World Cup Winning Star, but what about all the ABE T'Shirt sellers that'll go out of business.


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## Birchy (Nov 7, 2015)

So the only way Scottish teams can be competitive is by playing in a league in another country? Thats a massive cop out imo. Loads of other countries have gash leagues but still produce competitive teams.

Im sure theres loads of other teams across europe that would love to play in the premiership too :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2015)

Birchy said:



			So the only way Scottish teams can be competitive is by playing in a league in another country? Thats a massive cop out imo. Loads of other countries have gash leagues but still produce competitive teams.

Im sure theres loads of other teams across europe that would love to play in the premiership too :thup:
		
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How many truly competitive sides are there in the SPL? Why do you think the Scottish sides seem to struggle when they face European sides?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2015)

Val said:



			There was appetite a few years ago from the top English sides and the broadcasters to have Celtic and Rangers play in England and all that stopped it was self preservation of struggling teams because potentially 2 would be going to a lower league.
		
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On the face of it they would enhance the PL, but that was before Rangers got done, there was also a backlash against the plan as to what level would be fair to introduce them at, unfortunately now, I can't see any football reasons to let Celtic in and most importantly, look at the financial impact it would have on the rest of the Scottish Clubs.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 7, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Ostrich scenario.
		
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Only for Scottish Football, sort yourselves out rather than expect to be handed the easy option.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			On the face of it they would enhance the PL, but that was before Rangers got done, there was also a backlash against the plan as to what level would be fair to introduce them at, unfortunately now, I can't see any football reasons to let Celtic in and most importantly, look at the financial impact it would have on the rest of the Scottish Clubs.
		
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I really think you hit the nail on the head. Not only does it sound a death knell to Scottish football at a decent level, but who do you deprive of a PL place to accommodate them. Season already too long to add extra games by extending the league. I can't see any logical reason financial or footballing to allow them in. As I said, I can't see that or a European league happening though


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 7, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			you are joking...
		
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Jings, caught out again:lol:

Just saying that It will be 50 years next year since a British country has won a major trophy. 

I don't know what Phil is on about 'full houses' in the EPL.
Not what I see on my telly except for the very small grounds.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Jings, caught out again:lol:

Just saying that It will be 50 years next year since a British country has won a major trophy. 

I don't know what Phil is on about 'full houses' in the EPL.
Not what I see on my telly except for the very small grounds.
		
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Maybe that's more an issue with your telly 

But you still haven't come up with a valid reason to create a UK league beyond giving Scotland football a bit of the money pie that they haven't earned


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe that's more an issue with your telly 

But you still haven't come up with a valid reason to create a UK league beyond giving Scotland football a bit of the money pie that they haven't earned
		
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Well I did give you two or three but..... hey ho.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Well I did give you two or three but..... hey ho.
		
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No you didn't - you said increased telly money , yet there is no proof that would happen and average attendence !!?

They aren't reasons why there should be a UK league 

So please provide valid reasons why a UK league is the logical choice


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No you didn't - you said increased telly money , yet there is no proof that would happen and average attendence !!?

They aren't reasons why there should be a UK league 

So please provide valid reasons why a UK league is the logical choice
		
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Oh dear, cross examined yet again.
Why do you not provide me with the examples of 'no proof it would happen'. 'struth
This may come as a surprise to you Phil but people are allowed to have different opinions from you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh dear, cross examined yet again.
Why do you not provide me with the examples of 'no proof it would happen'. 'struth
This may come as a surprise to you Phil but people are allowed to have different opinions from you.
		
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Just asked for a valid reason that the logical choice is a UK league ?

Right now the prem gets billions - the Scots Prem peanuts - so the combined want be increased by that much based on a couple of teams - IMO 

But that's not a valid reason for English teams to join a UK league as they already get billions


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## User62651 (Nov 8, 2015)

I agree with Doon re the empty seats, caught some of MOTD last night, think it was Sunderland Southampton game particularly, seemed half empty so maybe the produce is getting a little stale. Think grounds tend to count all season tickets seats as occupied even when they're not.
Re competition or lack of wrt Celtic mentioned, it is true, but looking at Arsenal away to Bayern the other night, seemed a similar scenario for them, embarrassingly bad in Europe but flying high in EPL.

In sports things always change, you have to modernise and adapt, 
e.g. FA Cup is hugely weakened from where it once was due to priority for top 4 for ECL and also when ManU gave it a miss for world club thingy some years back. ECL has become massively more important to teams. Could anyone have predicted that 30 years ago?
Also NFL looking seriously at a UK franchise to expand their product to new markets, Olympics introducing new sports ie. snowboarding into winter Olympics which is very successful - boardercross arguably the best event at the winter games.

Cant stop change.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			I agree with Doon re the empty seats, caught some of MOTD last night, think it was Sunderland Southampton game particularly, seemed half empty so maybe the produce is getting a little stale. Think grounds tend to count all season tickets seats as occupied even when they're not.
Re competition or lack of wrt Celtic mentioned, it is true, but looking at Arsenal away to Bayern the other night, seemed a similar scenario for them, embarrassingly bad in Europe but flying high in EPL.

In sports things always change, you have to modernise and adapt, 
e.g. FA Cup is hugely weakened from where it once was due to priority for top 4 for ECL and also when ManU gave it a miss for world club thingy some years back. ECL has become massively more important to teams. Could anyone have predicted that 30 years ago?
Also NFL looking seriously at a UK franchise to expand their product to new markets, Olympics introducing new sports ie. snowboarding into winter Olympics which is very successful - boardercross arguably the best event at the winter games.

Cant stop change.
		
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Complete commonsense, but having, lets say, Celtic alone joining the PL and my team Everton drop out, what's the impact, Everyone playing Celtic get 1 more game with a full stadium, Celtic get 19 games and a load of TV money, that's it, only one winner in that scenario, but no thought for every other Scottish team and the revenue they'd lose and no thought for the team making way for Celtic.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 8, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How many truly competitive sides are there in the SPL? Why do you think the Scottish sides seem to struggle when they face European sides?
		
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In recent years Celtic seem to be doing as well as their English counterparts. [and their is only one of them!]


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## Jacko_G (Nov 8, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Only for Scottish Football, sort yourselves out rather than expect to be handed the easy option.
		
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As I said Ostrich. 

Holland are more than likely going to lose a European place this season due to their dropping coefficient. Ajax and PSV have a proud European history, Ajax especially were known for producing wondrous talent through their youth academy. They now can't compete with the imbalance.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			As I said Ostrich. 

Holland are more than likely going to lose a European place this season due to their dropping coefficient. Ajax and PSV have a proud European history, Ajax especially were known for producing wondrous talent through their youth academy. They now can't compete with the imbalance.
		
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So it's the Premiership's fault? and creating a UK League will benefit the whole of Europe, I reckon the Ostrich is Scottish.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 8, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			So it's the Premiership's fault? and creating a UK League will benefit the whole of Europe, I reckon the Ostrich is Scottish.
		
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The Premiership has created a money machine which has done football no favours.
Ask Portsmouth, Blackpool, Wigan, both Sheffields, Leeds, Newcastle, Middlesborough, Sunderland, Wolves, Birmingham, Villa etc etc.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The Premiership has created a money machine which has done football no favours.
Ask Portsmouth, Blackpool, Wigan, both Sheffields, Leeds, Newcastle, Middlesborough, Sunderland, Wolves, Birmingham, Villa etc etc.
		
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All these points are not answering the question about a UK League, has the money ruined English football? Yes, Does English Football need Scottish Clubs? No.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 8, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			All these points are not answering the question about a UK League, has the money ruined English football? Yes, Does English Football need Scottish Clubs? No.
		
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.......but you have Welsh ones that have a combined fan base that would not come near Celtic's


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			.......but you have Welsh ones that have a combined fan base that would not come near Celtic's

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And they are allowed by exception due to being members of the Football League for nearly 100yrs, UEFA wouldn't allow it these days.
Never denied Celtic have a fantastic fan base and support and would add that support to any league, but it's all about what's good for Celtic, seriuosly, What do you think the impact would be on Scottish football if Celtic moved to the Prem.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The Premiership has created a money machine which has done football no favours.
Ask Portsmouth, Blackpool, Wigan, both Sheffields, Leeds, Newcastle, Middlesborough, Sunderland, Wolves, Birmingham, Villa etc etc.
		
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But yet you want an UK league and suggest it will bring in more money ? 

Do you want a UK league so that Scottish teams get more money ?


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 8, 2015)

Celtic would add nothing to the Premier League,they'd just be another Newcastle. 
Leave them where they are.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 8, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			Celtic would add nothing to the Premier League,they'd just be another Newcastle. 
Leave them where they are.
		
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Oh they would - as they'd only be in the Premier League if Rangers were there also - and so as a result you'd have the delight of OF games.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 8, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			I agree with Doon re the empty seats, caught some of MOTD last night, think it was Sunderland Southampton game particularly, seemed half empty so maybe the produce is getting a little stale. Think grounds tend to count all season tickets seats as occupied even when they're not.
Re competition or lack of wrt Celtic mentioned, it is true, but looking at Arsenal away to Bayern the other night, seemed a similar scenario for them, embarrassingly bad in Europe but flying high in EPL.

In sports things always change, you have to modernise and adapt, 
e.g. FA Cup is hugely weakened from where it once was due to priority for top 4 for ECL and also when ManU gave it a miss for world club thingy some years back. ECL has become massively more important to teams. Could anyone have predicted that 30 years ago?
Also NFL looking seriously at a UK franchise to expand their product to new markets, Olympics introducing new sports ie. snowboarding into winter Olympics which is very successful - boardercross arguably the best event at the winter games.

Cant stop change.
		
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Very good points. I think there are a lot of PL teams (Villa WBA etc) who fail to sell out regularly. The FA cup lost its glamour many years ago and I don't think that will ever come back. The big teams will never target it, especially those in CL or Europa league campaigns. 

However I don't think there is too much that football and the FA/PL can do to market or do things differently and certainly can't see them going down the NFL route and playing games abroad, certainly on a regular basis


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## davidy233 (Nov 9, 2015)

Stuff having a UK league  - Celtic and Rangers fans put out this fantasy every couple of years and some of them actually believe it's possible - it's not


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 9, 2015)

Sunderland had only a "paltry" 39k at the match on Saturday. Not bad considering how awful they are. Plenty of empty seats but that is because the stadium capacity at 49k is too large for the size of the club. The overall PL product is not stale, it will just vary according to the ups and downs of each club


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## User62651 (Nov 9, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sunderland had only a "paltry" 39k at the match on Saturday. Not bad considering how awful they are. Plenty of empty seats but that is because the stadium capacity at 49k is too large for the size of the club. The overall PL product is not stale, it will just vary according to the ups and downs of each club
		
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Won't deny I'm playing Devils advocate here but Celtic's fans would have filled that 10k space easy bringing revenue to Sunderland, they're considerably closer to Sunderland than Southampton and if in EPL would have the backing of a lot of fans in Eire and lots of Anglo based Irish as a team with a strong Irish heritage so could take a large away support all over, thereby spreading the brand of EPL further afield. 

I'm no fan but a full Celtic Park looks like one of the best stadia around in terms of atmos and size. Looks better in red though


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 9, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			Won't deny I'm playing Devils advocate here but Celtic's fans would have filled that 10k space easy bringing revenue to Sunderland, they're considerably closer to Sunderland than Southampton and if in EPL would have the backing of a lot of fans in Eire and lots of Anglo based Irish as a team with a strong Irish heritage so could take a large away support all over, thereby spreading the brand of EPL further afield. 

I'm no fan but a full Celtic Park looks like one of the best stadia around in terms of atmos and size. Looks better in red though
View attachment 17568

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I was at Celtic park for the first time a couple of years ago for the Inter CL match.
Fabulous atmosphere and the 60,000 crowd were great even though Celtic got a good hiding.
Standing ovation to one of the Inter players [man of the match] when he was subbed with 20 minutes to go.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I was at Celtic park for the first time a couple of years ago for the Inter CL match.
Fabulous atmosphere and the 60,000 crowd were great even though Celtic got a good hiding.
Standing ovation to one of the Inter players [man of the match] when he was subbed with 20 minutes to go.
		
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PS may have been AC Milan:lol:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 9, 2015)

Celtics average is 47,000 over the last 6 years, were's these 60,000 crowds you talk about or are they European nights only?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 9, 2015)

Well they could add comedy value to a UK league 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34765355

:rofl: :rofl:


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## Backache (Nov 10, 2015)

Why the hell would England want Scottish teams down South, the last time Rangers visited Manchester there was carnage, English fans themselves have disgraced themselves in Ireland. Celtic fans chanting at Ross County in favour of the IRA during the Remembrance SIlence would produce havoc when combined with some of the English idiots,
Never the twain should meet.


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