# Tory Leader Competition.



## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2016)

This cartoon made me smile.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/hchoice.jpg


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## User62651 (Jul 9, 2016)

Prefer May just because she's a safe pair of hands, Leadsom seems a bit naive in some of the comments/press she's doing, she may be capable enough but inexperienced at top level of govt. Also dont believe Leadsom is any more pro leave than May (or Boris) given the comments from a few years back re the EU.
Expect May to cruise through.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 9, 2016)

Leadsom is basically Farage in a dress.  May has the overwhelming support of the MPs, but there is a fear that the party membership do tend to be more elderly and right wing/fringe UKIP, and some would rather have their person in and the government fail (IDS anyone) than chose a less Faragey type candidate who has the support of MPs. So they may support Leadsom.  And you may end up with both of our main political parties being lead by a person who most of their MPs do not want there.  

So once again, well done everyone.  I blame Mark Carney, he should be talking May up.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 9, 2016)

Oh are the Tories not having a load of fun.  First of all - being feart of UKIP - they foist a referendum on us and notwithstanding the intentions of their leader we find ourselves heading out of the EU; and then we are faced with the prospect of a PM who basically hasn't a clue - who thinks that some vague ideas, a dodgy dossier of a CV, and a manic smile - is all that is needed to woo the Tory faithful and run our blessed country - oh what a hoot they are having.

Gove, Leadsom, Johnson, IDS, Greyling aided and abetted by Associate in Chief Farage...these are the folk who have got us to where we are today, and some actually believe that Leadsom is just the person to make it all good.  Honest to God.  Can't imagine I am becoming such a fan of Teresa May.


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## Hobbit (Jul 9, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Gove, Leadsom, Johnson, IDS, Greyling aided and abetted by Associate in Chief Farage...these are the folk who have got us to where we are today, and some actually believe that Leadsom is just the person to make it all good.  Honest to God.  Can't imagine I am becoming such a fan of Teresa May.
		
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Maybe a bit of spin by me but a thought to ponder. Who created the climate for the above to succeed? Who mismanaged things to the extent that elements of the far right could gain traction? 

I genuinely don't know the answer, if there is one anyway, but to use a clichÃ©, "you reap what you sow." Badly managed by senior politicians charged to run the UK and ultimately voted for by the populace. I suppose you could say we got what we deserved. We voted them in, whether its the current crop or the previous one.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 9, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe a bit of spin by me but a thought to ponder. Who created the climate for the above to succeed? *Who mismanaged things to the extent that elements of the far right could gain traction*? 

I genuinely don't know the answer, if there is one anyway, but to use a clichÃ©, "you reap what you sow." Badly managed by senior politicians charged to run the UK and ultimately voted for by the populace. I suppose you could say we got what we deserved. We voted them in, whether its the current crop or the previous one.
		
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I think there has always been the far right element in the Tory party and now and then they see their opportunity to try and drag the party further to the right.  And this is such an occasion.  I'm not sure it is any devious cunning long term plan, they just make the most of any opportunity should it arise. As the far left have done in Labour at the moment. 

 Being a woolly liberal I really do not like the ideological swing to the extremes either side, as I believe most things need compromise to achieve any long term success and buy in from the general public. The further you lurch one way, the more you disenfranchise those on the opposite side. But I am sure other opinions are available.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 9, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh are the Tories not having a load of fun.  First of all - being feart of UKIP - they foist a referendum on us and notwithstanding the intentions of their leader we find ourselves heading out of the EU; and then we are faced with the prospect of a PM who basically hasn't a clue - who thinks that some vague ideas, a dodgy dossier of a CV, and a manic smile - is all that is needed to woo the Tory faithful and run our blessed country - oh what a hoot they are having.

Gove, Leadsom, Johnson, IDS, Greyling aided and abetted by Associate in Chief Farage...these are the folk who have got us to where we are today, and some actually believe that Leadsom is just the person to make it all good.  Honest to God.*  Can't imagine I am becoming such a fan of Teresa May*.
		
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Yup, me too.  I think if Leadsom gets in we will just end up in a depressing position like the US, where the two main parties just automatically ideologically oppose anything the other side says, even if the majority of the nation wants it (stricter gun laws anyone) and nothing gets done apart from through executive orders.  May may be the least worst option.  And if Labour can sort themselves out and get in someone a bit more less 'comraidy', then may be we can get back to having a slightly more tolerant political landscape with a bit of compromise and the odd policy based on what most of the nation needs, not just extreme political ideology.


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## Old Skier (Jul 9, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			- they foist a referendum on us and notwithstanding the intentions of their leader we find ourselves heading out of the EU.
		
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Do you have any idea of politics, your starting to sound like someone who is just a born moaner.

The Tories did not foist a referendum on us, it was a pledge in their manifesto and possibly the only real promise they have stuck to which resulted in their success in the general election.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 9, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Do you have any idea of politics, your starting to sound like someone who is just a born moaner.

The Tories did not foist a referendum on us, it was a pledge in their manifesto and possibly the only real promise they have stuck to which resulted in their success in the general election.
		
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I am rather on the side of those who express the notion that Cameron never actually expected or intended there to be a referendum - it's inclusion in the manifesto being a political expediency to pull the rug from under the feet of UKIP.

I actually think (pray) that May may do OK in getting some things sorted one way or another - is that positive enough from someone who really has not a lot of time for the Tories.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 9, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Do you have any idea of politics, your starting to sound like someone who is just a born moaner.

The Tories did not foist a referendum on us, it was a pledge in their manifesto and possibly the only real promise they have stuck to which resulted in their success in the general election.
		
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As I have said in another post, the tories success was built upon fears over the Labour/SNP alliance and also about what Labour would do to the economy.  I very much doubt the fact that they would hold a referendum crossed many peoples minds when they were putting their cross on the piece of paper for them. There was probably a UKIP candidate standing for most seats that would have taken the vote of those that saw the EU as a major issue, not the Tory candidate.


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## harpo_72 (Jul 9, 2016)

The referendum had two objectives, 1 steal votes from ukip, and 2 appease the leavers in the Tory party. 
It did both, but it was a poor strategy for the country and a bunch of muppets not actually realising that they were two different things. The Tory leavers should have joined ukip and formed a party and contested seats. Then the Tory party would have been free, but not strong enough to win an election against labour having destroyed the liberals ... 
Just the desperation of keeping labour out of no. 10....


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## Alex1975 (Jul 9, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			This cartoon made me smile.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/hchoice.jpg

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That is funny, you know how to have a good time....


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 9, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			That is funny, you know how to have a good time.... 

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I did not say it was funny, it made me smile and there are all sorts of smiles.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 9, 2016)

harpo_72 said:



			The referendum had two objectives, 1 steal votes from ukip, and 2 appease the leavers in the Tory party. 
It did both, but it was a poor strategy for the country and a bunch of muppets not actually realising that they were two different things. The Tory leavers should have joined ukip and formed a party and contested seats. Then the Tory party would have been free, but not strong enough to win an election against labour having destroyed the liberals ... 
Just the desperation of keeping labour out of no. 10....
		
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Are you really suggesting the majority of voters were Muppets?


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## chippa1909 (Jul 10, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Are you really suggesting the majority of voters were Muppets?
		
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Boris 24/6/16


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## SocketRocket (Jul 10, 2016)

chippa1909 said:



			Boris 24/6/16
View attachment 20145

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Dont believe my post was about Boris.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 10, 2016)

Trust the tories to come up with a candidate that even makes Theresa May look like a good option.  The prospect of leadsom as pm is truly terrifying!


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2016)

Even if Corbyn is not up to the task of getting the can't be asked along to the polling stations Leadsom surely will...

#hereshoping...


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## Old Skier (Jul 11, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Trust the tories to come up with a candidate that even makes Theresa May look like a good option.  The prospect of leadsom as pm is truly terrifying!
		
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Along with Corbyn & Strugeon it looks like British Politics have gone mad and the public don't help.  Unfortunately its not just a Tory thing but the public obviously feel there the best of a bad bunch.  Why are so many candidates so poor throughout the political system, is this a product of the "I don't care less" society?


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## MegaSteve (Jul 11, 2016)

Getting entry to the 'political classes' is proving ever more difficult as it becomes more of a closed shop...

For example, my MP has no merit other than he is the son of a Tory grandee and has been gifted [more or less] a job for life.... I am sure there are plenty of other examples of this from all sides of the political spectrum...

The 'rank and file' need to start speaking up more and ensure that they actually get heard...


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

Apparently Leadsom is pulling out. A bit like Chukka at Labour, the press scrutiny and abuse has proved too much. Not good for democracy but I don't see that changing. 

What happens now? Does Gove come back in or does Teresa get a clear run? Does she start as PM tomorrow? The political journos will be beside themeselves.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 11, 2016)

Looks like Leadsom has withdrawn from the race. Which is a small victory I suppose, but it's all relative. 

So now to escape being governed by the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels we will instead be governed by the PM who has been elected by absolutely nobody leading a party that got less than a quarter of the potential vote at the last election 

Well done everyone, democracy at its finest.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 11, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Apparently Leadsom is pulling out. A bit like Chukka at Labour, the press scrutiny and abuse has proved too much. Not good for democracy but I don't see that changing. 

*What happens now? Does Gove come back in or does Teresa get a clear run?* Does she start as PM tomorrow? The political journos will be beside themeselves.
		
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May will be PM, it's just a case of how long the handover will be.  I suspect sooner rather than later.


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## Crazyface (Jul 11, 2016)

Seems bonkers, but no better solution has been put forward.


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## Fyldewhite (Jul 11, 2016)

What a bloody mess.....on both sides.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Looks like Leadsom has withdrawn from the race. Which is a small victory I suppose, but it's all relative. 

So now to escape being governed by the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels we will instead be governed by the PM who has been elected by absolutely nobody leading a party that got less than a quarter of the potential vote at the last election 

Well done everyone, democracy at its finest.
		
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Tell you what though - thank God that she is going to pull out.  Farcical that she got to the last two - showed up the tribalism of the right of the Tory party for what it is.  Completely disrespectful of the country.


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## Old Skier (Jul 11, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Looks like Leadsom has withdrawn from the race. Which is a small victory I suppose, but it's all relative. 

So now to escape being governed by the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels we will instead be governed by the PM who has been elected by absolutely nobody leading a party that got less than a quarter of the potential vote at the last election 

Well done everyone, democracy at its finest.
		
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Its our way, maybe not the best but many countries would and have given their right arm for it.

The Torys are the elected government. Perhaps a way forward to get everyone voting may be a better solution rather than moaning about democracy every time it doesn't go your way.

Seems that people have short memories as the Labour Party in recent years lead the way in this.


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## Old Skier (Jul 11, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Tell you what though - thank God that she is going to pull out.  Farcical that she got to the last two - showed up the tribalism of the right of the Tory party for what it is.  Completely disrespectful of the country.
		
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Are you incapable of see what's going on in the Labour Party. It appears your political arguments are all one sided and quite happy to see the complete disintegration of Labour.


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## chrisd (Jul 11, 2016)

I have never quite understood the argument that because we change prime minister we should have a general election. We have never voted for anything other than our constituency candidate and the party they represent. So long as the incoming person continues to follow the party's manifesto then that IS democracy at work the way that it is set it up


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 11, 2016)

Clutching at straws but finally a sliver of good news! What a relief leadsom won't be pm.


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## jp5 (Jul 11, 2016)

Another leading leaver leaves 

Is May now going to be an Unelected Bureaucrat â„¢?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

chrisd - Agreed. It is very simple.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 11, 2016)

Don't know what she has said on the subject but I'll be surprised if may doesn't call s snap general election. It's an open goal for her at the moment and widely considered to be Gordon brown's fatal mistake when he became PM.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 11, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Its our way, maybe not the best but many countries would and have given their right arm for it.

The Torys are the elected government. Perhaps a way forward to get everyone voting may be a better solution rather than moaning about democracy every time it doesn't go your way.

Seems that people have short memories as the Labour Party in recent years lead the way in this.
		
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I am just pointing out the irony in the arguments over regaining our sovereignty away from unelected bureaucrats we had for coming out of the EU and the position we are in now. It is not a party political point as at no point did I say this was purely a conservative issue as as you correctly point out, Labour are just as bad.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 11, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't know what she has said on the subject but I'll be surprised if may doesn't call s snap general election. It's an open goal for her at the moment and widely considered to be Gordon brown's fatal mistake when he became PM.
		
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But politically very risky? God knows hwo the electorate would vote now with both both major parties imploding, Lib Dems anonymous, UKIP leaderless and Brexit still very much doing its best to tear us apart.  Perhaps she may just stick with the conservative majority in parliament and not risk that?


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 11, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			But politically very risky? God knows who the electorate would vote now with both both major parties imploding, Lib Dems anonymous, UKIP leaderless and Brexit still very much doing its best to tear us apart.  Perhaps she may just stick with the conservative majority in parliament and not risk that?
		
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Quite possibly!


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## User62651 (Jul 11, 2016)

Well thank goodness for that, I'm no Tory but this rudderless country needs leadership (and opposition) now not September, get May along to see Lizzie asap and in to No.10 by Wednesday, sort out a new cabinet within a week (she must have been thinking about this for days) including Gove and Leadsom, get article 50 underway, just get on with it.
Boris could be put out to grass, offers nothing to May.


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## IanG (Jul 11, 2016)

That's the best news Dave C. has had in a while !


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## SocketRocket (Jul 11, 2016)

chrisd said:



			I have never quite understood the argument that because we change prime minister we should have a general election. We have never voted for anything other than our constituency candidate and the party they represent. So long as the incoming person continues to follow the party's manifesto then that IS democracy at work the way that it is set it up
		
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This ^^^^


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## SocketRocket (Jul 11, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Well thank goodness for that, I'm no Tory but this rudderless country needs leadership (and opposition) now not September, get May along to see Lizzie asap and in to No.10 by Wednesday, sort out a new cabinet within a week (she must have been thinking about this for days) including Gove and Leadsom, get article 50 underway, just get on with it.
Boris could be put out to grass, offers nothing to May.
		
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And this. ^^^^^^^


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Are you incapable of see what's going on in the Labour Party. It appears your political arguments are all one sided and quite happy to see the complete disintegration of Labour.
		
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This is about the Tory party - I happen to think the Labour Party is also a shambles - but at least they are not in government.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 11, 2016)

To quote twitter

So there we are. A referendum that was about the people choosing our leaders has led to a new PM being decided by one very silly interview


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

HK - not just any twitter quote, Alistair Campbell. Very true though.


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## GB72 (Jul 11, 2016)

Cannot see a snap election being called unless someone wants referendum mark 2. 

Any election called now will be on one issue, will you serve notice under article 50. There will be at least one party who would stand on the policy that they would not, the LibDems have already said as much. 

To my mind, there actually is a massive benefit in calling the election in that it would make each party clearly state their position on the matter, each party could set out their position for any supposed increase funding to bodies such at the NHS should we leave Europe and we would have a clearer picture. That said, I am a remainer so I would say that. If there is no election coming then we just need to pull the plug and see what happens.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 11, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			To quote twitter

So there we are. A referendum that was about the people choosing our leaders has led to a new PM being decided by one very silly interview

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I can't remember a box on my referendum paper asking me  to vote in our leaders, I thought I had already done that last year. 

Brexit is Brexit, no fudging, no second referendum We will leave the EU.  :thup:


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## SocketRocket (Jul 11, 2016)

GB72 said:



			Cannot see a snap election being called unless someone wants referendum mark 2. 

Any election called now will be on one issue, will you serve notice under article 50. There will be at least one party who would stand on the policy that they would not, the LibDems have already said as much. 

To my mind, there actually is a massive benefit in calling the election in that it would make each party clearly state their position on the matter, each party could set out their position for any supposed increase funding to bodies such at the NHS should we leave Europe and we would have a clearer picture. That said, I am a remainer so I would say that. If there is no election coming then we just need to pull the plug and see what happens.
		
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Maybe we could have a referendum on it.


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## jp5 (Jul 11, 2016)

If May did call an election think she would increase the Tory majority. Couldn't ask for a weaker state of opposition parties!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2016)

jp5 said:









If May did call an election think she would increase the Tory majority. Couldn't ask for a weaker state of opposition parties!
		
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...and in Scotland the SNP could only really get weaker


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## Rooter (Jul 11, 2016)

It's all over! Prime minister May before the end of the week.


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## gregbwfc (Jul 11, 2016)

Not sure she can just call an election.
Thought parliament was fixed for 5 years now.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

She can call an election any time she likes. Doubt she will though. The country needs stability, particularly on the economic front. An election would upset the markets / currency etc even more.


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## User62651 (Jul 11, 2016)

The last thing anyone needs (apart from politicians it seems) is another election/referendum, we've had enough. Why do we need another GE just because the Conservatives have changed leader. There is no appetite for it. If she did call a GE the turnout would be low like 50%, no one wants to listen to yet more political campaigning. Besides Conservatives would win with a bigger majority than last time given UKIPs imminent disintegration and Labours woes.
Government needs to focus and crack on with governing, sorting out the EU mess etc etc. 
Fingers crossed May shows more backbone and judgement than Cameron.


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## MarkE (Jul 11, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			Fingers crossed May shows more backbone and judgement than Cameron.
		
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Not difficult is it? A jelly fish would show more backbone than Dave. I think she'll do well, already showing the right attitude with brexit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 11, 2016)

New PM by Wednesday, just announced. It's all moving very quickly.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2016)

and still there are folks who think that a Leadsom PM-ship would have been a good idea


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## SocketRocket (Jul 11, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			and still there are folks who think that a Leadsom PM-ship would have been a good idea
		
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And sone think that Corbyn PM-ship would have been a good idea


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## Old Skier (Jul 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			And sone think that Corbyn PM-ship would have been a good idea 

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Polotics might be spinning out of control at the moment but it's not spinning that far.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 11, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Polotics might be spinning out of control at the moment but it's not spinning that far.
		
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It is in the World of Diane Abbott, John McDonnell and Ken Livingstone.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			And sone think that Corbyn PM-ship would have been a good idea 

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Something that would for ever remain unfulfilled - unlike a Leadsom premiership.  And as far as Leavers expecting a senior cabinet post for BoJo - that deceitful, self-serving, duplicitous individual shouldn't get anywhere near such a post.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 11, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Something that would for ever remain unfulfilled - unlike a Leadsom premiership.  And as far as Leavers expecting a senior cabinet post for BoJo - that deceitful, self-serving, duplicitous individual shouldn't get anywhere near such a post.
		
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I am not concerned whether he gets a Cabinet post or not, what I want is a strong team who are prepared to face up to Junker and his mates and give us a deal that is mutually beneficial without surrender on Free Movement and our contributions, if they dont agree to that then put some sizeable tariffs on certain EU products like Cars, machine Tools, consumer goods and agriculture then open up free trade to other countries.   I wonder who would blink first.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			I am not concerned whether he gets a Cabinet post or not, what I want is a strong team who are prepared to face up to Junker and his mates and give us a deal that is mutually beneficial without surrender on Free Movement and our contributions, if they dont agree to that then put some sizeable tariffs on certain EU products like Cars, machine Tools, consumer goods and agriculture then open up free trade to other countries.   I wonder who would blink first.
		
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You need to tell May and the Tories your vision of what Brexit means as they don't seem to be able to articulate it yet.


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## User62651 (Jul 12, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You need to tell May and the Tories your vision of what Brexit means as they don't seem to be able to articulate it yet.
		
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If you are going into a negotiation you dont announce to the world what your intentions are before you start, there will be give and take on every point that comes up for negotitiation, hundreds of them.
The only one that seems critical to Brexiters is the freedom of movement issue - seems absolutley clear we wont get unrestricted access to the single market without that condition, so to get 'our borders back' we will be paying tariffs out of a point of principle by the EU (or else there's no reason for any other countries to stay in EU). Whether we suck that up as our cost for departing or charge reciprocal tarriffs I dont know. Perhaps our new unlimited access to trade around the world will more than cover that extra cost of EU tarriffs.:mmm:


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 12, 2016)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...ph-for-democracy-sighs-britain-20160712110618


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## SocketRocket (Jul 12, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...ph-for-democracy-sighs-britain-20160712110618

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* â€œIâ€™m not saying Iâ€™ve got a better idea. Iâ€™m just saying democracy seems to be a bit broken and maybe we should fix it."
*
Whats undemocratic about the Conservative Party selecting a new leader when the previous resigned. I cant recall a box on the ballot paper asking who I would like as Prime Minister.

She will get her chance to fix things at the next election, something she wouldn't be able to do with the EU.

If she doesn't have a better idea then put up.


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## Foxholer (Jul 12, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			I am not concerned whether he gets a Cabinet post or not, what I want is a strong team who are prepared to face up to Junker and his mates and give us a deal that is mutually beneficial without surrender on Free Movement and our contributions, if they dont agree to that then put some sizeable tariffs on certain EU products like Cars, machine Tools, consumer goods and agriculture then open up free trade to other countries.   *I wonder who would blink first.*

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44% of all UK exports go to EU and 54% of UK imports come from the EU.

Around 10% of EU imports/exports are from/to UK!

Given those figures, I'd suggest UK would be blinking very quickly! UK-EU trade is much more important percentage-wise to UK than it is to EU - though obviously, the numbers are identical!


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 12, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			â€œIâ€™m not saying Iâ€™ve got a better idea. Iâ€™m just saying democracy seems to be a bit broken and maybe we should fix it."
*Whats undemocratic about the Conservative Party selecting a new leader when the previous resigned. I cant recall a box on the ballot paper asking who I would like as Prime Minister.*

She will get her chance to fix things at the next election, something she wouldn't be able to do with the EU.

If she doesn't have a better idea then put up.
		
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You do realise that this is satirical web site and the person they are quoting is made up?  And it is poking fun at the people moaning about us being controlled by unelected officials in Brussels and wanting to regain control, but who refuse to see the irony in the current situation.


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 12, 2016)

Foxholer said:



			44% of all UK exports go to EU and 54% of UK imports come from the EU.

Around 10% of EU imports/exports are from/to UK!

Given those figures, I'd suggest UK would be blinking very quickly! UK-EU trade is much more important percentage-wise to UK than it is to EU - though obviously, the numbers are identical!
		
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I would suspect that Germany would blink before either the EU or the UK. 

Looking at just two business sectors Germany export 820000 cars to the UK each year which is one fifth of their total output and means the UK is their largest market by volume and worth almost 18 billion euros per year. German machinery producers exported 6.8 billion euros worth of machinery to the UK last year, the 4th largest market for German engineering firms.

I imagine pressure would be put on the EU by Germany to conclude a favourable trade deal to both sides especially if the UK could go into negotiations with outline trade deals already agreed with countries such as Japan for imports of their cars.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 12, 2016)

maxfli65 said:



			If you are going into a negotiation you dont announce to the world what your intentions are before you start, there will be give and take on every point that comes up for negotitiation, hundreds of them.
The only one that seems critical to Brexiters is the freedom of movement issue - seems absolutley clear we wont get unrestricted access to the single market without that condition, so to get 'our borders back' we will be paying tariffs out of a point of principle by the EU (or else there's no reason for any other countries to stay in EU). Whether we suck that up as our cost for departing or charge reciprocal tarriffs I dont know. Perhaps our new unlimited access to trade around the world will more than cover that extra cost of EU tarriffs.:mmm:
		
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Maybe the tariffs we would put on EU goods would balance them out and even better would encourage us to buy British or from other countries that don't apply tariffs.  As we import around Â£80 Billion  more from the EU than they do from us (and that figure is growing fast) is a good card to hold in negotiations.  Most of those imports are from a few the larger economies in the EU as many member states don't have a great deal to offer us outside tourism so suggestions that we are not very important to them are blinkered.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 12, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			You do realise that this is satirical web site and the person they are quoting is made up?  And it is poking fun at the people moaning about us being controlled by unelected officials in Brussels and wanting to regain control, but who refuse to see the irony in the current situation.
		
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But it's a stupid point. Our method of electing a government and PM is nothing like the way the EU operates.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 12, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			But it's a stupid point. Our method of electing a government and PM is nothing like the way the EU operates.
		
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Very true matey, The UK's would probably shame a 3rd world country at the mo.


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## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Very true matey, The UK's would probably shame a 3rd world country at the mo.
		
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Really? Seriously?


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## Hobbit (Jul 12, 2016)

Foxholer said:



			44% of all UK exports go to EU and 54% of UK imports come from the EU.

Around 10% of EU imports/exports are from/to UK!

Given those figures, I'd suggest UK would be blinking very quickly! UK-EU trade is much more important percentage-wise to UK than it is to EU - though obviously, the numbers are identical!
		
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C'mon Foxy, that's poor, lazy thinking.  

VW/Audi have already lobbied German ministers and the EU over free trade. Merkel wants, note WANTS, as open a relationship with the UK as she can possibly get, whilst Juncker wants to send a message to the rest of the EU that leaving isn't viable.

Germany holds the purse strings for the EU, and the German electorate holds Merkel's job in their hands. Do you honestly believe she/they will risk one of their biggest markets? 

The EU finance minister is already making noises about the unfair hold the UK has over taxes in Europe if it decides to lower business taxes in the UK. Rather than drive business out of the UK, he's worried it will take business away from the EU. France are already being aggressive in trying to counter this threat.

Having a (financial) foundation block pulled out of the EU is going to cause them a whole heap of trouble. Forcing excessive hardship onto the foundation block by way of tariffs isn't really that wise.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 12, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Very true matey, The UK's would probably shame a 3rd world country at the mo.
		
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Unbelievable!   Ha, Haaa, Haaaaaa, Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!  Im splitting my sides thats so funny :rofl:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2016)

I listened to Theresa May there - and you know I am relieved as I was able to listen.  I would have really struggled if it had been Johnson or Leadsom - and yet still some in the Tory party MPs, members and supporters would have had both of them as PM ahead of May.  Phew - narrow escape for the UK!  I can take the sound of her so will see how she goes.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 13, 2016)

I'm not a Tory, however right now I think May is the right person to try and sort this whole shambles out.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I listened to Theresa May there - and you know I am relieved as I was able to listen.  I would have really struggled if it had been Johnson or Leadsom - and yet still some in the Tory party MPs, members and supporters would have had both of them as PM ahead of May.  Phew - narrow escape for the UK!  I can take the sound of her so will see how she goes.
		
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I thought her wee speech was very good. 
But there again so was Margaret Thatchers.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I thought her wee speech was very good. 
But there again so was Margaret Thatchers.
		
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Yes I agree - fine words - let's see.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2016)

Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary - Really?????? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36789972

He doesn't strike me as having the nous and political temperament to handle potentially difficult situations


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary - Really?????? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36789972

He doesn't strike me as having the nous and political temperament to handle potentially difficult situations
		
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Well he wanted to be PM so he has a chance to prove himself - or crash and burn.


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## ger147 (Jul 13, 2016)

With May and Hammond now in post, what about Clarkson???


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 13, 2016)

ger147 said:



			With May and Hammond now in post, what about Clarkson???
		
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Well we will no doubt also have a Jeremy (Hunt)


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 13, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary - Really?????? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36789972

He doesn't strike me as having the nous and political temperament to handle potentially difficult situations
		
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Don't get this at all, unless she wants him on a tight leash instead of him being a roaming pain in the butt


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Don't get this at all, unless she wants him on a tight leash instead of him being a roaming pain in the butt
		
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Can understand that but what will he bring to the role. Not sure he has too much respect overseas (I may be wrong but my perception) and seems a loose cannon when some softly softly negotiations are needed


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2016)

Is it me or does Phllip May have a touch of the Sid Little's about him

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...hWHWhoKHdogAxEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=GBe7a_Nkq2b6fM:


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## SocketRocket (Jul 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary - Really?????? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36789972

He doesn't strike me as having the nous and political temperament to handle potentially difficult situations
		
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Really?   Did his two spells as mayor of London not give him that?   Have you looked into his background and family history?    I think he certainly has the nous and political temperament to handle potentially difficult situations.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 14, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Really?   Did his two spells as mayor of London not give him that?   Have you looked into his background and family history?    I think he certainly has the nous and political temperament to handle potentially difficult situations.
		
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I tend to agree with Homer here. I think he's perceived as a bit Churchillian, to put it politely.
I think May is giving him enough rope to hang himself whilst keeping him inside the Tory tent. 
In the long run Boris will be remembered as the man who split the Tories and destroyed Cameron. And some will want their pound of flesh for that.


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## Oohmeoldbacksknackered (Jul 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is it me or does Phllip May have a touch of the Sid Little's about him

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...hWHWhoKHdogAxEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=GBe7a_Nkq2b6fM:

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I see Hank Marvin and Harry Enfield's love child myself &#128533;


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2016)

I'm sure Boris will help to regain our reputation as a great nation when he meets his foreign counterparts. The European countries will love him and he has such a great history in this area.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/oct/21/conservatives.pressandpublishing


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is it me or does Phllip May have a touch of the Sid Little's about him

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...hWHWhoKHdogAxEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=GBe7a_Nkq2b6fM:

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Loved his outfit, well tailored suit complimented his tiny waist and nice long legs.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Have you looked into his background and family history?
		
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There in lies a large part of the problem with politics... Nepotism... 
It's not what you've done or can do but what your father/mother has done before you...

The worst type of manager is the one that has read all about it but never actually laid a proverbial brick...

As London's Mayor BJ started off well enough but got distracted, far too easily, from the actual job in hand...


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## Hobbit (Jul 14, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Really?   Did his two spells as mayor of London not give him that?   Have you looked into his background and family history?    I think he certainly has the nous and political temperament to handle potentially difficult situations.
		
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Certainly did read up on his background, prior to the EU referendum, and what a disgraceful despicable man he is. I read some of his newspaper articles, and how much of a bully he was/is. I read of his duplicity whilst he was at uni. I must have missed something but as far as I'm concerned he I wouldn't trust him to do an honest, full days graft with the emphasis on honest.

The thought of him running the country, along with a few other far right wingers was why I switched from Leave to Remain.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 14, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Certainly did read up on his background, prior to the EU referendum, and what a disgraceful despicable man he is. I read some of his newspaper articles, and how much of a bully he was/is. I read of his duplicity whilst he was at uni. I must have missed something but as far as I'm concerned he I wouldn't trust him to do an honest, full days graft with the emphasis on honest.

The thought of him running the country, along with a few other far right wingers was why I switched from Leave to Remain.
		
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Time will tell on how he performs in the new role.  I am optimistic that he will be good but Hey Ho! god forbid, I may be wrong


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