# Salmond v Darling



## williamalex1 (Aug 25, 2014)

The second live debate tonight BBC ONE 20.30 UK wide,  so who's going to come out on top this time.

Surely Salmond must improve on his last performance especially on his currency plans or he'll blow it.

Opinions now and after the debate.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 25, 2014)

Yes that was a weird one, probably the worst performance I have seen Salmond give and the following day the polls show a rise for the Indy vote.


----------



## CMAC (Aug 25, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yes that was a weird one, probably the worst performance I have seen Salmond give and the following day the polls show a rise for the Indy vote.
		
Click to expand...

what polls? the 35 people they asked on the right side

Looking forward to a decent debate this time- will/can Salmond answer a straight question on currency this time? surely he has to, to at least stop behaving like an arse on TV...live.


----------



## Fish (Aug 25, 2014)

I think the very unassuming Darling will tie him in knots, again!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 25, 2014)

I think the topics for debate tonight don't include currency but focus on such as the NHS and oil. Whilst it will be very tempting to Darling to switch all discussion to currency I don't think that would be a good tactic as could be seen as typical politician tactic - avoid question asked and try to answer the one you want to answer.  

On oil I read an article in the Sunday Times yesterday about attractiveness of Aberdeen to property investors - why? KPMG reckon the. City needs another 120,000 oil and gas workers by 2022 to remains global energy hub.  Now make of that what you will but it doesn't sound like a city in an economy collapsing as oil runs out.


----------



## williamalex1 (Aug 25, 2014)

Anyone else watching the Edinburgh Tattoo on BBC Scotland just now, I forgot how diverse it was.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

Darling is a weasel.

Is there any way he might be able to say why staying in the Union would be good for us or is he just going to bleat on about the pound that he's just admitted we can still use?

He,I suggest, is doing YES a power of good.


----------



## rosecott (Aug 25, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Darling is a weasel.

Is there any way he might be able to say why staying in the Union would be good for us or is he just going to bleat on about the pound that he's just admitted we can still use?

He,I suggest, is doing YES a power of good.
		
Click to expand...

You mean he's a weasel because he's on the other side from you?

I wonder what animal description would apply to Salmond if you didn't like his views? Any suggestions?


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

rosecott said:



			You mean he's a weasel because he's on the other side from you?

I wonder what animal description would apply to Salmond if you didn't like his views? Any suggestions?
		
Click to expand...


Not at all. I am not on the other side at all thanks.

Here he goes again.....stuck again.

Weasel.

Fat Eck is slashing all over him here.


----------



## richy (Aug 25, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Darling is a weasel.

Is there any way he might be able to say why staying in the Union would be good for us or is he just going to bleat on about the pound that he's just admitted we can still use?

He,I suggest, is doing YES a power of good.
		
Click to expand...

I thought you were English? Or at least lived in England?


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

richy said:



			I thought you were English? Or at least lived in England?
		
Click to expand...

Insulting.

I live in England but have a vote through property thanks.


----------



## rosecott (Aug 25, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Insulting.

I live in England but have a vote through property thanks.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds dodgy?

My brother still lives in the family home in Fife in which I have an interest. Do I have a vote?


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

rosecott said:



			Sounds dodgy?

My brother still lives in the family home in Fife in which I have an interest. Do I have a vote?
		
Click to expand...

Dodgy?

In what way? Owning property in Scotland to which taxes are paid entitles me to a vote. 

With regards to you I have no idea.


----------



## richy (Aug 25, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Insulting.

I live in England but have a vote through property thanks.
		
Click to expand...

Hardly insulting just what I thought. Obviously I was wrong, no need to get your knickers in a twist.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

richy said:



			Hardly insulting just what I thought. Obviously I was wrong, no need to get your knickers in a twist.
		
Click to expand...

On the contrary. Calling a Scot English is not my idea of fun.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

Darling has been absolutely poosiled tonight.Royally shafted by Salmond.

Darling concentrating on the risks and not anything positive to stay within the Union.

It certainly feels that the power is a shifting


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 25, 2014)

Not one positive sentence from Darling......rabbit in headlights.

Big shift to YES after that debate I would think.


----------



## richy (Aug 25, 2014)

Dodger said:



			On the contrary. Calling a Scot English is not my idea of fun.

Click to expand...

Unintentional but I see your point. I'd hate to be called Scottish.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not one positive sentence from Darling......rabbit in headlights.

Big shift to YES after that debate I would think.
		
Click to expand...

"You can't keep spending money you haven't got," says the man helped who added Â£500bn to the UK's national debt. Does Darling realise what a tool he made of himself?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2014)

It is quite interesting reading the differing views of the debate. 

On the BBC ticker website it has the opposite than on here - people critsizing Salmond for once again not coming up with any of any substance and the normal answer of "because we will" - but also Darling doesnt get away with it also.

Its all full of hot air from the pair of them it seems.


----------



## rosecott (Aug 25, 2014)

Dodger said:



			"You can't keep spending money you haven't got," says the man helped who added Â£500bn to the UK's national debt. Does Darling realise what a tool he made of himself?
		
Click to expand...

Apropos of nothing, BBC website calls him Darlnig.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

No doubt the EBC will spin this as a score draw.

The BBC spin machine will be spinning hugely tonight of that there is no doubt.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

ICM POll saying 71% think Salmond won to 29% Darling.  A humping.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 25, 2014)

100,000 additional Scottish children will be in poverty this year, figures released by children's charities.

Good points scorer by Salmond.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 25, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Insulting.

I live in England but have a vote through property thanks.
		
Click to expand...

 FGS delete this post before Hogan sees it.:lol:


----------



## SocketRocket (Aug 25, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			100,000 additional Scottish children will be in poverty this year, figures released by children's charities.

Good points scorer by Salmond.
		
Click to expand...

Damning inditement to the Scottish Parliament!


----------



## Dodger (Aug 25, 2014)

Darlings team now desperately looking for the suspended Polish sub now.....


----------



## williamalex1 (Aug 25, 2014)

I think Salmond won tonight, but i'm still not convinced.


----------



## Hobbit (Aug 25, 2014)

Salmond by a country mile, and then some. 

I thought Darling did a very poor job of explaining why you need control of your own currency. And its Brinksmanship of Salmond to assume Scotland will have the backing of the Bank of England post yes. Is that really a safe risk?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 25, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...Whilst it will be very tempting to Darling to switch all discussion to currency I don't think that would be a good tactic
		
Click to expand...

Sure enough he did and as I suspected would happen it didn't go down that well with the audience when he kept going back to it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 25, 2014)

I wonder how many people actually change their vote based on these arguments ( sorry debates )


----------



## SocketRocket (Aug 25, 2014)

Neither would concede anything, they were constantly interrupting each other and speaking rubbish!

And that was only the audience


----------



## ger147 (Aug 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder how many people actually change their vote based on these arguments ( sorry debates )
		
Click to expand...

I have a vote, I haven't decided yet how to vote, I watched the Man City vs Liverpool game.


----------



## User62651 (Aug 25, 2014)

As someone with a vote and still undecided, I thought Salmond did pretty well, Darling less so, The currency union idea is not new and is being too negatively used by the no campaign imo as a scare tactic - when both Australia and Canada gained independence they entered a currency union with the UK until setting up their own currencies, has been done dozens of times for countries going alone. I don't think currency is that important to this. Think the yes vote will be up a bit after today. Could be the Union does neither country any good anymore, Scots moan about Westminster domination and wasting billions on WMD and English moan about supporting freeloading Scots with disproportionate welfare through Barnet. Key for the no campaign imo is turnout, the yes voters will all turn out, the no voters may not be so motivated as they're basically voting for the status quo. Could be a really really close one. Amazing how this can all be traced back to Tony Blair and his illegal wars - Scotland was a Labour stronghold until then and people got so hacked off with Tony they voted SNP in Holyrood elections as basically a protest vote - giving Eck a mandate for a referendum on independence, now its here the mood has changed and it could be the splitting of the UK. Politics has never been more interesting in Scotland and has engaged a normally apathetic public which must be good. When devolution was put in place in the 1990's Labour thought it would be the end of the independence debate, how wrong they were! Still don't know which way to vote though!


----------



## 6inchcup (Aug 25, 2014)

will we in ENGLAND get a vote to let SCOTLAND decide what they will do with the currency,also as they will no longer belong to the UNITED KINGDOM i assume they will pay for any services in ENGLAND they use namely the NHS the same as other countries outside the EU ( they will not be a member),will any SCOTISH person having a job in ENGLAND be classed as a foreign worker thus losing any rights to benefits etc,only asking as SALMOND seems to want his cake and some of ours.


----------



## User62651 (Aug 25, 2014)

Maybe any Scots in England would need to choose if they keep a British passport or take a Scottish passport and as you say if they're taking non EU Scottish passports then they'd need to pay for services in England or maybe be deported! Trouble is most would qualify for dual citizenship through living and working/homeowning/renting in England but having Scottish heritage - grandparents etc. All sound a bit silly but something will have to give if there's a yes vote, lots to iron out - could be like Australia/New Zealand where you can opt to live in either pretty easily. Reciprocal thing would apply as there are hundreds of thousands of English people living/working in Scotland. When you decide you divide!


----------



## chris661 (Aug 26, 2014)

6inchcup said:



			will we in ENGLAND get a vote to let SCOTLAND decide what they will do with the currency,also as they will no longer belong to the UNITED KINGDOM i assume they will pay for any services in ENGLAND they use namely the NHS the same as other countries outside the EU ( they will not be a member),will any SCOTISH person having a job in ENGLAND be classed as a foreign worker thus losing any rights to benefits etc,only asking as SALMOND seems to want his cake and some of ours.
		
Click to expand...

Why do you use random capitalisation of words?


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Think I saw a different debate to some on here, or maybe my glasses arent tinted.

Salmond clearly (or not as the case may be) avoided answering the questions yet again and deflected not only Darlings cross examination but that of the chair. 

100,000 additional children in Poverty in Scotland, Salmond is the 1st Minister yet blames the UK govt for that.

He said foodbanks are escalating- why not use the millions you've spent on this ridiculous campaign the last 2 years to do something about it....thought not.


Overall cheap point scoring by Salmond especially on Darling saying he could use the pound- Darling also said he could use the Yen, dollar euro or whatever else he wanted..........but without a stable bank behind it it cannot work, ignored of course by a man who concentrated on walking around the podium (obviously told to do it by his marketeers) rather than concentrating on answering the most basic and important questions we all need to hear.


----------



## One Planer (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Think I saw a different debate to some on here, or maybe my glasses arent tinted.

Salmond clearly (or not as the case may be) avoided answering the questions yet again and deflected not only Darlings cross examination but that of the chair. 

100,000 additional children in Poverty in Scotland, Salmond is the 1st Minister yet blames the UK govt for that.

He said foodbanks are escalating- why not use the millions you've spent on this ridiculous campaign the last 2 years to do something about it....thought not.


Overall cheap point scoring by Salmond especially on Darling saying he could use the pound- Darling also said he could use the Yen, dollar euro or whatever else he wanted..........but without a stable bank behind it it cannot work, ignored of course by a man who concentrated on walking around the podium (obviously told to do it by his marketeers) rather than concentrating on answering the most basic and important questions we all need to hear.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that :thup:

I thought it was just me. 

Also loved Salmonds "The debt is yours" _threat_.

I also loved how Salmond tried to make a big thing of Darling admitting that Scotland could use the pound unilaterally, which is true, but Scottish banks would lose access to central bank funding, so goodbye RBS HQ (According to Sky). Strange how he left that out :smirk:

I'm still curious as to Salmonds plan B if his bluff is called in the event of a Yes vote. 

I also agreed with a some of Darlings remarks about basing national incomes on such a volotile stock as oil, especially when the longevity of the stock is unknown. 

Certainly interesting times ahead but I'm not convinced Salmond actually has a plan B if I'm honest.


----------



## Junior (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Think I saw a different debate to some on here, or maybe my glasses arent tinted.

Salmond clearly (or not as the case may be) avoided answering the questions yet again and deflected not only Darlings cross examination but that of the chair. 

100,000 additional children in Poverty in Scotland, Salmond is the 1st Minister yet blames the UK govt for that.

He said foodbanks are escalating- why not use the millions you've spent on this ridiculous campaign the last 2 years to do something about it....thought not.


Overall cheap point scoring by Salmond especially on Darling saying he could use the pound- Darling also said he could use the Yen, dollar euro or whatever else he wanted..........but without a stable bank behind it it cannot work, ignored of course by a man who concentrated on walking around the podium (obviously told to do it by his marketeers) rather than concentrating on answering the most basic and important questions we all need to hear.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this, but i also thought Darling didnt shine either.


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder how many people actually change their vote based on these arguments ( sorry debates )
		
Click to expand...

Those who like a good sound byte?
Couldn't believe some of the reasons I got told last week for voting "Yes", to me it seemed like they were after an excuse to have a dig at the English rather than voting with their heads.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 26, 2014)

A point everyone seems to miss is that most of the Better Together politicians are fighting to save their own jobs and their comfy lifestyles. Listening to some of them I think that is pretty high on their agenda.


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A point everyone seems to miss is that *most of the Better Together politicians are fighting to save their own jobs and their comfy lifestyles*. Listening to some of them I think that is pretty high on their agenda.
		
Click to expand...

now you really are clutching at straws!


----------



## LIG (Aug 26, 2014)

Is there a deadline day for all the nitty-gritty details to have been ironed out once/if the vote goes to the independence supporters?  I suspect if this were a fixed point in time, like the upcoming vote, there would have been far more substance in the arguments of both sides. 

On a longer term view, would an Independent Scotland be asking to be let back into the Union once the Oil runs out? Would the Union allow that to happen? 


Alternatively, Scotland could become part of Canada!!! (That's very tongue in cheek!)


----------



## Dodger (Aug 26, 2014)

89% of the unsures say Salmond triumphed last night.

The other 11% have apologised for hitting the wrong button.

Not sure his landslide will have swayed that many but sure it won't have done any harm for the YES.


----------



## IanG (Aug 26, 2014)

LIG said:



			Is there a deadline day for all the nitty-gritty details to have been ironed out once/if the vote goes to the independence supporters?
		
Click to expand...

Hi LIG, 

Nope, Alex S. claims it can be done by May 2016 but he is IMHO dreaming - it will take several years, lead to an ugly set of compromises which will leave both Scotland and rUK dissatisfied.


----------



## Adi2Dassler (Aug 26, 2014)

Thought both were poor, Salmond a bawhair less so.


----------



## IanG (Aug 26, 2014)

I thought the BBC made a silly decision not to have the moderator standing  between Salmond and Darling to mitigate the aggro or perhaps it is me being silly and they wanted a shouting match.....surely not.


----------



## DCB (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Think I saw a different debate to some on here, or maybe my glasses arent tinted.

Salmond clearly (or not as the case may be) avoided answering the questions yet again and deflected not only Darlings cross examination but that of the chair. 

100,000 additional children in Poverty in Scotland, Salmond is the 1st Minister yet blames the UK govt for that.

He said foodbanks are escalating- why not use the millions you've spent on this ridiculous campaign the last 2 years to do something about it....thought not.


Overall cheap point scoring by Salmond especially on Darling saying he could use the pound- Darling also said he could use the Yen, dollar euro or whatever else he wanted..........but without a stable bank behind it it cannot work, ignored of course by a man who concentrated on walking around the podium (obviously told to do it by his marketeers) rather than concentrating on answering the most basic and important questions we all need to hear.
		
Click to expand...

+1

We know politicians are not keen on giving a straight answer, but for something as important as this, we deserve to be given straight answers instead of the spin or outright tripe we are currently being given.

As for the studio audience, they were out of order with some of their personal attacks on Darling IMO.  Another of the classic lines, "we have a government we didn't vote for" funnily enough, some of us have two governments we didn't vote for 

Still, only three weeks to go and it'll all be over


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 26, 2014)

I thought it was good to see a bit of passion in British politics.
They certainly engaged the audience and I would imagine those sitting at home.

How often have you heard a politician being jeered or cheered by a TV audience lately?

Darling reading [poorly] his prepared closing statement was a big mistake

Certainly makes a change from the bland soundbites you hear from career politicians we seem to get now.


----------



## lex! (Aug 26, 2014)

I tried to watch it but found it extremely dull. Eck went back to his rabble rousing, whilst avoiding answering the questions, and Darling was stuttering throughout most of it, a man who presided plunging the union into debt, failing to promote its benefits. The one interesting bit was when the lady question Darling's devtion to the NHS whilst she calimed he was milking private health benefits. I waited for him to answer but he didn't. I don't have a vote now, but think the NO's will have it on the day. There's too much uncertainty about the currency, and the public spending spree that Eck wants to unleash, and he's very unpopular with women voters up there.


----------



## Jimaroid (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm an undecided voter, my heart says yes but my head says no. Salmond performed better last night but neither person did anything to change my stance, for shame, and both came across as floundering on key issues. I'm still none the wiser on the benefits of either case, I just want to know, relatively clearly, what my two year old daughter can grow up to expect in education, health and finance. I wouldn't have thought it would be hard to make that case and it'd probably help both sides in the debate greatly.


----------



## Conman85 (Aug 26, 2014)

At the moment we don't live in the United Kingdom, it's United London, let's not be kidded! Once the privatisation of the NHS hits down south it won't be long in putting the squeeze up here, even if it remains public. That and the pensions are where the future generations are going to be hit hardest. I'm not if sure Independence is the answer, but i'm willing to give it a bash, just so we have control of our own future and our decisions aren't being made by folk with London's interests at heart. Scotland has given so much to the world surely things can only get better.....................que Take That


----------



## IanG (Aug 26, 2014)

Jimaroid said:



			I just want to know, relatively clearly, what my two year old daughter can grow up to expect in education, health and finance.
		
Click to expand...

I think would all like to have some certainty about that before casting our vote, but I think it is unrealistic to expect any current politician to be able to provide that degree of crystal-ball gazing. What can they clearly say about whether there will be Uni tuition fees when your daughter leaves school? (to pick one example). To pick another, what can the Yes campaign say with certainty about EU membership before negotiations with Brussels begin?  

I'm afraid we are being asked to vote without answers to these crucial issues because answers cannot be given ahead of the negotiations which cannot take place ahead of the referendum. 

In fact we have no idea who the governments of Scotland or rUK will be when negotiations are in full swing in 2016 - maybe labour administrations in both governments! 

With that in mind my view is that we can only vote on who we wish to allow to govern us long term, the rabble in Westminster or the shower in Holyrood. This should not be a vote for or against Salmond or Cameron, who'll soon enough be yesterday's men, but one about Scotland's long term place within these islands. 

I don't find it a straightforward choice at all, but I'm currently in the No camp, primarily as on balance the scale of being in a larger country  and the lack of upheaval  outweighs the extra local flexibility/democracy independence would bring. 

Ian


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			At the moment we don't live in the United Kingdom, it's United London, let's not be kidded! Once the privatisation of the NHS hits down south it won't be long in putting the squeeze up here, even if it remains public. That and the pensions are where the future generations are going to be hit hardest. I'm not sure Independence is the answer, but *i'm willing to give it a bash*, just so we have control of our own future and our decisions aren't being made by folk with London's interests at heart.
		
Click to expand...

well thats a sound way to take the country forward for our children! You've just said Pensions are where future generations (our children) will be hit hardest and you are spot on, but you still think its worth giving it a bash!

There is no turning back when Salmond is proven to be wrong and there is a financial and social disaster within Scotland, but we'll definitley have control of our own future as no-one else will want anything to do with it.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Aug 26, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			At the moment we don't live in the United Kingdom, it's United London, let's not be kidded! Once the privatisation of the NHS hits down south it won't be long in putting the squeeze up here, even if it remains public. That and the pensions are where the future generations are going to be hit hardest. I'm not if sure Independence is the answer, but i'm willing to give it a bash, just so we have control of our own future and our decisions aren't being made by folk with London's interests at heart. Scotland has given so much to the world surely things can only get better.....................que Take That 

Click to expand...

If pensions are the biggest issue, why would you want to remove yourself from a much larger pool of workers, to help with the pension issue down the line?


----------



## Conman85 (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			well thats a sound way to take the country forward for our children! You've just said Pensions are where future generations (our children) will be hit hardest and you are spot on, but you still think its worth giving it a bash!

There is no turning back *when Salmond is proven to be wrong *and there is a financial and social disaster within Scotland, but we'll definitley have control of our own future as no-one else will want anything to do with it.
		
Click to expand...

And you can say with 100% certainty Salmond is going to be wrong?


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			And you can say with 100% certainty Salmond is going to be wrong?
		
Click to expand...

Based on what he has said so far and in his white paper it has been proven that it cannot work, which is why so many are dissapointed in Salmond's cheap points scoring as opposed to answering the question- WHY WON'T HE? why will he only say how he thinks it might work when we are past the point of no return?

It beggars belief that anyone would accept that for their own future.


----------



## Conman85 (Aug 26, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			If pensions are the biggest issue, why would you want to remove yourself from a much larger pool of workers, to help with the pension issue down the line?
		
Click to expand...

Self sustainability, I think it may take a couple of years to get on our feet, but I think we would thrive on our own! A boom up here would mean a larger pool with a lower population.

We wouldnt be rushing to stand shoulder to shoulder with America on every decision. The money we use fighting wars, giving aid, these things wouldn't be as high on our agenda. We would look after ourselves at first, until we grew, when we are sustainable i'd like to see a Belgian formula in place where we are loaning to other countries.


----------



## Conman85 (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Based on what he has said so far and in his white paper it has been proven that it cannot work, which is why so many are dissapointed in Salmond's cheap points scoring as opposed to answering the question- WHY WON'T HE? why will he only say how he thinks it might work when we are past the point of no return?

It beggars belief that anyone would accept that for their own future.
		
Click to expand...

So really you are basing your decision on Alex Salmond and a white paper that has been manipulated more times than play do?

Look at the bigger picture, I don't like Salmond, but im not voting for him............im voting for the future!


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			So really you are basing your decision on Alex Salmond and a white paper that has been manipulated more times than play do?

Look at the bigger picture, I don't like Salmond, but im not voting for him............im voting for the future!
		
Click to expand...

This reply sums up the confused state so many will be voting under.


----------



## Jimaroid (Aug 26, 2014)

IanG said:



			I think would all like to have some certainty about that before casting our vote, but I think it is unrealistic to expect any current politician to be able to provide that degree of crystal-ball gazing.
		
Click to expand...

You're right and, to be clear, I'm not asking for a certain look into the future. I just want to be confident that the decision I make is one that gives best chances for my family. I would like facts rather than rhetoric, some of those facts are hard to provide, and I get that, but that's no reason to avoid questions on them. "We don't know yet but this is how to plan to find out" is a totally acceptable answer to me. What isn't acceptable is saying "we're right and they're wrong" without much factual basis and just shouting at increasing volumes.


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			Self sustainability, I think it may take a couple of years to get on our feet, but I think we would thrive on our own! *A boom up here *would mean a larger pool with a lower population.

We wouldnt be rushing to stand shoulder to shoulder with America on every decision. The money we use fighting wars, giving aid, these things wouldn't be as high on our agenda. We would look after ourselves at first, until we grew, when we are sustainable i'd like to see a Belgian formula in place where we are loaning to other countries.
		
Click to expand...

what BOOM? there are over 700,000 stating they will leave if a yes vote.

Financial institutions will HAVE to leave and so will their jobs.


----------



## Conman85 (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			what BOOM? there are over 700,000 stating they will leave if a yes vote.

Financial institutions will HAVE to leave and so will their jobs.
		
Click to expand...

The finance industry makes up less than 20% of the scottish economy, offsetting it against the defence budget should cover us. Once the 700,000 have gone im sure we will get some back when our manufacturing industry picks up again.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			The finance industry makes up less than 20% of the scottish economy, offsetting it against the defence budget should cover us. Once the 700,000 have gone im sure we will get some back when our manufacturing industry picks up again.
		
Click to expand...

Manufacturing what exactly ?


----------



## IanG (Aug 26, 2014)

Jimaroid said:



			I would like facts rather than rhetoric, some of those facts are hard to provide, and I get that, but that's no reason to avoid questions on them. "We don't know yet but this is how to plan to find out" is a totally acceptable answer to me. What isn't acceptable is saying "we're right and they're wrong" without much factual basis and just shouting at increasing volumes.
		
Click to expand...

I agree. I seems in modern day politics 'facts' are rather elusive , and each side dips into the data and pulls out the 'fact' that suits it's argument. They are all adept enough to find a ratio of x to y  or data over the last N year that supports their point. Then the shouting starts. In the end I end up (perhaps wrongly)  ignoring all their claims equally since you get swamped with contradictory 'facts'.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Think I saw a different debate to some on here, or maybe my glasses arent tinted.

Salmond clearly (or not as the case may be) avoided answering the questions yet again and deflected not only Darlings cross examination but that of the chair. 

100,000 additional children in Poverty in Scotland, Salmond is the 1st Minister yet blames the UK govt for that.
		
Click to expand...

Surely his point was that the Scottish Government can blame the UK govt for anything tied to welfare policy and spending as Welfare is a reserved power and impossible for a Scottish Government to remediate.  They have done what they can on 'bedroom tax' as that was an 'affordable' cost (Â£50m) but they can't sort out all welfare policy issues that lead to child poverty.

As far as using the budget for the referendum to alleviate foodbanks?  Well the Scottish Government didn't call the referendum and Westminster doesn't seem too keen to fund the YES campaign.  What were they supposed to do?  Besides funding for the YES campaign wouldn't go far to alleviating the welfare issues that have let to the increase in use of foodbanks and the need for foodbanks again simply comes down to welfare policy and funding - so AS lobs it back into UK Govt court.


----------



## Conman85 (Aug 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Manufacturing what exactly ?
		
Click to expand...

A big list, ask Nick Clegg he is in Delhi just now trying to sell them............amongst them aerospace, food, drink, chemicals, all of which Scotland can supply.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Darling reading [poorly] his prepared closing statement was a big mistake
		
Click to expand...

What I noticed about Darlings statement that he finished quite quietly on a 'downward' infection in his voice.  It rather petered out and was not very uplifting.


----------



## DCB (Aug 26, 2014)

This thread is really beginning to depress me. It's three weeks until we vote on our future. A serious decision will be made dependant on the outcome of the democratic process. With politicians who won't answer a straight question and voters who really are not armed with the necessary information to make a sensible vote.

This is definitely not a case of voting with the heart, unfortunately, that seems to be the way many are going. That's fine doing that at a General Election or a Scottish parliamentary Election, you only have to live with the consequences for five years. This one, if we get it wrong, we're shafted for the rest of our days.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

Jimaroid said:



			I'm an undecided voter, my heart says yes but my head says no. Salmond performed better last night but neither person did anything to change my stance, for shame, and both came across as floundering on key issues. I'm still none the wiser on the benefits of either case, I just want to know, relatively clearly, what my two year old daughter can grow up to expect in education, health and finance. I wouldn't have thought it would be hard to make that case and it'd probably help both sides in the debate greatly.
		
Click to expand...

Who can predict 10yrs ahead on education, health and finance in the UK?  And that's taking what one might assume to be a KNOWN starting point.  Problem is that the starting point for the UK in these things isn't actually that known - with lots of uncertainty ahead What with a UK Gen Election next year and then followed up by an EU referendum who today can predict accurately on education, health and finance in the UK ten years hence?  

So demanding this of the YES campaign is asking rather a lot when all they can actually do at the moment is tell you that an iScotland Scottish Government will succeed or fail with the public on it's own merits and faults - and will not be able to blame anyone else.


----------



## lex! (Aug 26, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			At the moment we don't live in the United Kingdom, it's United London, let's not be kidded! Once the privatisation of the NHS hits down south it won't be long in putting the squeeze up here, even if it remains public. That and the pensions are where the future generations are going to be hit hardest. I'm not if sure Independence is the answer, but i'm willing to give it a bash, just so we have control of our own future and our decisions aren't being made by folk with London's interests at heart. Scotland has given so much to the world surely things can only get better.....................que Take That 

Click to expand...

London's interests, like the Pound, but Eck still wants that. Also, not sure what he would do without the millions that the London tax payer sends north of the border with the Barnett formula.


----------



## Slab (Aug 26, 2014)

So every main political party agrees that the current setup is not fit for purpose and the vote on the 18th is to decide between a raft of new/increased powers for the Scottish parliament or go independent 

The former sounds like a longer lead but with the same choking effect when itâ€™s pulled. The latter is scary too, but... 

I think the difference might be that when the hand on the other end of the lead is Scottish, perhaps the pulling will be because Scotland really needs to be back on track, not because the person with the lead needs to pull on it every so often just to see if it still works!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			what BOOM? there are over 700,000 stating they will leave if a yes vote.

Financial institutions will HAVE to leave and so will their jobs.
		
Click to expand...

700,000 have said they would think about leaving - not the same thing.  And in any case where would they go?  And would they take their jobs and homes with them?

And you are certain about financial institutions - haven;t heard any financial institution say it would leave - plenty have contingency plans in the event of a YES and I suspect an option in all their plans will be to leave.  But it will be one option.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

DCB said:



			This thread is really beginning to depress me. It's three weeks until we vote on our future. A serious decision will be made dependant on the outcome of the democratic process. With politicians who won't answer a straight question and voters who really are not armed with the necessary information to make a sensible vote.

This is definitely not a case of voting with the heart, unfortunately, that seems to be the way many are going. That's fine doing that at a General Election or a Scottish parliamentary Election, you only have to live with the consequences for five years. This one, if we get it wrong, we're shafted for the rest of our days.
		
Click to expand...

Is Ireland still shafted or is it slowly climbing and working it's way out of the mess it found itself in?


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			700,000 have said they would think about leaving - not the same thing.  And in any case where would they go?  And would they take their jobs and homes with them?

*And you are certain about financial institutions - haven;t heard any financial institution say it would leave *- plenty have contingency plans in the event of a YES and I suspect an option in all their plans will be to leave.  But it will be one option.
		
Click to expand...

they have to be in a country backed by a secure banking system- as Scotland won't meet that criteria they will have to leave. It's been stated many times.


yes agreed about the 700,000 only saying they would think about leaving. There should be a better poll with a straight will you leave or not question.

I have to say I have never been polled nor has anyone I know, nor anyone I work with nor any of their friends or family.....not one.


----------



## Slab (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			they have to be in a country backed by a secure banking system- as Scotland won't meet that criteria they will have to leave. It's been stated many times.


yes agreed about the 700,000 only saying they would think about leaving. There should be a better poll with a straight will you leave or not question.

*I have to say I have never been polled nor has anyone I know, nor anyone I work with nor any of their friends or family.....not one.*

Click to expand...

How would you know this if they hadn't been polled!


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Slab said:



			How would you know this if they hadn't been polled!
		
Click to expand...

sorry, you've lost me


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2014)

Slab said:



			How would you know this if they hadn't been polled!
		
Click to expand...

I'm guessing because they have talked about it ?


----------



## Slab (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			sorry, you've lost me

Click to expand...

So you asked a question to everyone you know, everyone you work with and their families and friends, have you ever been polled?.... that's a poll


----------



## richy (Aug 26, 2014)

Have they mentioned what Scotland would do about defence and the Armed Forces?


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 26, 2014)

richy said:



			Have they mentioned what Scotland would do about defence and the Armed Forces?
		
Click to expand...

A proposed scaled down Army/Navy/Air Force more fitting to the size of the country. Join NATO.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2014)

richy said:



			Have they mentioned what Scotland would do about defence and the Armed Forces?
		
Click to expand...

Create their own and of course use aircraft and ships given to them by the UK 

Believe they wanted two Sqn's of Typhoons , 4 Merlins , two ships and 4 C130's etc 

Of course the wages they pay would be considerably less because they wouldn't need to pay the "X Factor"


----------



## Beezerk (Aug 26, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A proposed scaled down Army/Navy/Air Force more fitting to the size of the country. Join NATO.
		
Click to expand...

Where would the troops come from? I very much doubt current Scottish troops in the British army would leave to be in Scotland's Home Guard.

Someone asked a good question on the radio debate this morning. If the Yes vote goes through and it all goes tats up for Salmond and co in a few years, what would happen when Labour get into power? Would they not follow policies similar to the ones in Westminster?


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Where would the troops come from? I very much doubt current Scottish troops in the British army would leave to be in Scotland's Home Guard.

Someone asked a good question on the radio debate this morning. If the Yes vote goes through and it all goes tats up for Salmond and co in a few years, w*hat would happen when Labour get into power? Would they not follow policies similar to the ones in Westminster?*

Click to expand...

Good question and 'probably' would be my guess, however, they would be copying and following as opposed to being told what to do.......allegedly.


----------



## Slab (Aug 26, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Create their own and of course *use aircraft and ships given to them by the UK *

Believe they wanted two Sqn's of Typhoons , 4 Merlins , two ships and 4 C130's etc 

Of course the wages they pay would be considerably less because they wouldn't need to pay the "X Factor"
		
Click to expand...

Is that the same 'given to them' as we'd know from a divorce where joint assets are shared between each party

Serious question, I genuinely don't know how it works but your phrasing sounds like its maybe some other arrangement


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2014)

Slab said:



			Is that the same 'given to them' as we'd know from a divorce where joint assets are shared between each party

Serious question, I genuinely don't know how it works but your phrasing sounds like its maybe some other arrangement
		
Click to expand...

Guess it would be like shared assets ? 

It's what is written in Salmonds white paper - whether it actually would happen is another matter

Not sure about the military bases in Scotland - not sure how ownership of them is arranged at the moment


----------



## chrisd (Aug 26, 2014)

Haven't they had the vote yet? I do wish they'd get on with it!  :lol:


----------



## Dodger (Aug 26, 2014)

Amazing how many English want to hang onto to their Cousins and many without a really good reasoning behind it.

I wonder what the main reason is? Fear?

The odd thing I find is that so many are concentrating on Salmond when in reality it is not him or his party we are voting for or against.


----------



## Foxholer (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Good question and 'probably' would be my guess, however, they would be copying and following as opposed to being told what to do.......allegedly.
		
Click to expand...

And, more importantly, deciding which ones, if any, to implement based on what they considered best for Scotland! At least hopefully.

As Dodger posted, it's not about approval of Salmond. It's about independence (from Westminster)! 

There's actually potential, though unlikely imo and certainly not immediately, for SNP to self-destruct whichever way the vote goes - either because the goal is perceived to have been achieved, or because they failed to achieve it!


----------



## jp5 (Aug 26, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Amazing how many English want to hang onto to their Cousins and many without a really good reasoning behind it.

I wonder what the main reason is? Fear?

The odd thing I find is that so many are concentrating on Salmond when in reality it is not him or his party we are voting for or against.
		
Click to expand...

I think most English really couldn't give two figs what Scotland decides to do and for the majority don't think it'll have any impact at all.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 26, 2014)

jp5 said:



			I think most English really couldn't give two figs what Scotland decides to do and for the majority don't think it'll have any impact at all.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, I can see that from a straw poll of what's happening on this board.:mmm:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Aug 26, 2014)

I care about the vote 

I would like to see the UK remain as one whole unity of strength 

Believe we are great together and a powerful nation

Have worked alongside Scottish , welsh and Irish for 2 decades and the unity and bond between them all is something very special 

Maybe it's all sentimental reasons because I don't have facts and figures but it's why I hope and I'm fact expect a no vote


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And, more importantly, deciding which ones, if any, to implement based on what they considered best for Scotland! At least hopefully.

As Dodger posted, it's not about approval of Salmond. It's about independence (from Westminster)! 

There's actually potential, though unlikely imo and certainly not immediately, for SNP to self-destruct whichever way the vote goes - either because the goal is perceived to have been achieved, or because they failed to achieve it!
		
Click to expand...

...and so would rise a Scottish Labour Party or maybe a Scottish Social Democratic party.  Can't see Scottish electorate in an iScotland putting up with a Labour Government in Holyrood that mirrored Westminster Labour policies.  Maybe it would.  

But one way or another Scotland would get the government it voted for and more likely to get one with policies that more closely suited the thinking and wishes of the electorate.  Whether it would be of any use or of any good is another matter.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 26, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			It's about independence (from Westminster)!
		
Click to expand...


For many, substitute Westminster with England/London...


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

Anyway - back to Salmond v Darling.  I thought Darling was too uptight and nervous and that Salmond was the opposite - a bit too slouchy, casual and a touch too cocky.


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Anyway - back to Salmond v Darling.  I thought Darling was too uptight and nervous and that Salmond was the opposite - *a bit too slouchy, casual and a touch too cocky*.
		
Click to expand...

bordering on smarmy and sleezy (mates of dopey and grumpy)


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 26, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Where would the troops come from? I very much doubt current Scottish troops in the British army would leave to be in Scotland's Home Guard.

Someone asked a good question on the radio debate this morning. If the Yes vote goes through and it all goes tats up for Salmond and co in a few years, what would happen when Labour get into power? Would they not follow policies similar to the ones in Westminster?
		
Click to expand...

I doubt it, Scotland never really embraced 'New Labour'.
Hence the Scottish Labour partys demise and the rise of the SNP.

What many south of the border fail to understand is that the SNP have managed Scotland very well for the last 5 years. They are popular,  the Scottish electrol system was designed so that there would not be a majority party.
So take the independence bit away and you have a party with a proven record of delivering popular policies on budget.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			bordering on smarmy and sleezy (mates of dopey and grumpy)
		
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with you on that - if I were voting I'd be grateful that voting YES isn't a vote for Salmond.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I doubt it, Scotland never really embraced 'New Labour'.
Hence the Scottish Labour partys demise and the rise of the SNP.
		
Click to expand...

And I wonder if - in unlikely event of a YES - Darling would join Soapies 'Team Scotland' (naff) and so push for Currency Union.  Same question asked of Dougie Alexander this morning.  Ducked.

I enjoyed when at one point last night Darling tried to stop Salmon in full flow with a 'Haud oan...'


----------



## Adi2Dassler (Aug 26, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And I wonder if - in unlikely event of a YES - Darling would join Soapies 'Team Scotland' (naff) and so push for Currency Union.  Same question asked of Dougie Alexander this morning.  Ducked.

I enjoyed when at one point last night Darling tried to stop Salmon in full flow with a 'Haud oan...'
		
Click to expand...

Darling and Alexander, two of the poshest folk ever bred in Scotland.I'd rather they were kept far away from any post yest victory negotiations...utter hatred for independence, presided over Â£500 Billion being added to UK debt and not very good politicians.


----------



## PieMan (Aug 26, 2014)

I tried to watch the debate but ended up getting frustrated and irritated by the constant talking over each other's questions / 'answers' (were any of the questions actually answered fully and coherently?) / statements. Given how serious Scottish Independence actually is to the fate of the Union and the impact a Yes vote has on 4 nations not just one, I thought this was quite shameful of both Salmond and Darling, but probably an indication of how low British politics has fallen over the last 20-30 years.

As a result, I actually came away feeling quite sorry for those in Scotland with a vote having to make a decision based on the arguments of two - IMO - very poor politicians.


----------



## CMAC (Aug 26, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



*Darling* and Alexander, *two of the poshest folk ever bred in Scotland*.I'd rather they were kept far away from any post yest victory negotiations...utter hatred for independence, presided over Â£500 Billion being added to UK debt and not very good politicians.
		
Click to expand...

is this the man who single handedly (not quite but he was key) sorted out the RBS fiasco, that could have been utterly devastating for the whole country if he/they didnt do what they did.

And whats posh got to do with anything in this debate?


----------



## Hobbit (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			And whats posh got to do with anything in this debate?
		
Click to expand...

Posh boys aren't to be trusted...... they may have gone to a Grammar school or, heaven forbid, a public school. A touch of inverted snobbery?


----------



## Adi2Dassler (Aug 26, 2014)

CMAC said:



			is this the man who single handedly (not quite but he was key) sorted out the RBS fiasco, that could have been utterly devastating for the whole country if he/they didnt do what they did.

And whats posh got to do with anything in this debate?
		
Click to expand...


Thats right.Darling presided over the financial services during the bank disaster, alongside Gordon Brown they created the perfect storm then begged the BoE and US Treasury to sort it out.

And being posh hasn't really got anything to do with it, except the way he and Alexander says Scotland goes right thru me.


----------



## Adi2Dassler (Aug 26, 2014)

Darling also claimed during the previous referendum on indy that tear gas will be deployed if we vote yes and mass rapes will occur.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm a bit surprised Salmond didn't pull Darling up on the figure of 8000 Coulport and Faslane jobs that will go.  Yes in time if things continue as they are there may well be 8000 jobs there and thereabouts supporting the facilities - but at the moment there are not - indeed Darling said as much.  Though the implication was that 8000 folks would lose their jobs if Trident and the warheads go - ignoring the new SDF jobs that would be created.  Many of the jobs don't exist yet and an individual can't lose a job that he doesn't have and indeed doesn't actually exist.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 26, 2014)

Did anyone else notice that during Darling's cross-examination of Salmond he was visibly shaking? He was holding his notes in his hand for a few seconds and you could see them flapping about, I think he was then aware of this and decided to then sit the notes back down on the lectern so as to not make it obvious, whereas Salmond was cool as a cucumber for the duration. Darling must know himself that
he got his pants pulled down last night surely?

I laugh at those saying Salmond used "bully boy tactics" when Darling continually pointed fingers and referred to Alex as "he" or "him"....boorish and counter productive.

Darling was a shambles.


----------



## SocketRocket (Aug 26, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Did anyone else notice that during Darling's cross-examination of Salmond he was visibly shaking? He was holding his notes in his hand for a few seconds and you could see them flapping about, I think he was then aware of this and decided to then sit the notes back down on the lectern so as to not make it obvious, whereas Salmond was cool as a cucumber for the duration. Darling must know himself that
he got his pants pulled down last night surely?

I laugh at those saying Salmond used "bully boy tactics" when Darling continually pointed fingers and referred to Alex as "he" or "him"....boorish and counter productive.

Darling was a shambles.
		
Click to expand...

They were both pathetic at debating and the chair was hopeless in controlling it.   Salmond just didn't shut up and interrupted all the time.   IMO it was a shambles and not worth of air time.


----------



## Dodger (Aug 26, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			They were both pathetic at debating and the chair was hopeless in controlling it.   Salmond just didn't shut up and interrupted all the time.   IMO it was a shambles and not worth of air time.
		
Click to expand...

Just a shame Cameron didn't fancy the gig instead of a shambolic Labour man.


----------



## SocketRocket (Aug 26, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Just a shame Cameron didn't fancy the gig instead of a shambolic Labour man.
		
Click to expand...

True.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 26, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			True.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with Westminster Cameron said back then - yeh right.  Like all the promises of more stuff heading Holyrood's way following a NO will be nothing to do with Westminster - somehow Holyrood will go to Westminster and just take it. I f you have a vote what makes you believe the Westminster promises? And if you don't want more powers are you happy that they might not turn up - what would that say to those voting NO expecting these new powers?  Trouble ahead I fear when there is a NO.


----------



## 6inchcup (Aug 26, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Why do you use random capitalisation of words?
		
Click to expand...

because countries should have a capital letter to start same as names and days of the week,plus it gives you something to moan about what i write as per normal.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 27, 2014)

Maybe if things look really tight BT will field their secret weapon - the next UK Prime Minister - Big Boris.  Would be good to see him up against Salmond's pocket battleship of a side-kick - Nicola Sturgeon.


----------



## patricks148 (Aug 27, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Maybe if things look really tight BT will field their secret weapon - the next UK Prime Minister - Big Boris.  Would be good to see him up against Salmond's pocket battleship of a side-kick - Nicola Sturgeon.
		
Click to expand...

I imagine the thought of that fool Boris as next PM will spur a few into the yes camp i should think.


----------



## Adi2Dassler (Aug 27, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			I imagine the thought of that fool Boris as next PM will spur a few into the yes camp i should think.
		
Click to expand...

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-conservative-leader

And lets be honest, with Milliband on the other team Boris is a cert for PM


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 27, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			I imagine the thought of that fool Boris as next PM will spur a few into the yes camp i should think.
		
Click to expand...

...and the YES campaign don't even have to raise as a risk the possibility/probability of BorisJ being next Prime Minister.  The Scottish electorate are I am sure well aware of that - just so happens that at the moment it's not at the forefront of everyone's thinking.  

But as a NO vote looms...

the prospect of a ToryUKIP coalition government led by Farage and BorisJ might cause some to pause...

and reflect...

on what could be...


----------



## patricks148 (Aug 27, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and the YES campaign don't even have to raise as a risk the possibility/probability of BorisJ being next Prime Minister.  The Scottish electorate are I am sure well aware of that - just so happens that at the moment it's not at the forefront of everyone's thinking.  

But as a NO vote looms...

the prospect of a ToryUKIP coalition government led by Farage and BorisJ might cause some to pause...

and reflect...

on what could be...
		
Click to expand...

its a frightening prospect and they could be in power till kingdom after a yes vote


----------



## CMAC (Aug 27, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			its a frightening prospect and they *could be in power till kingdom* after a yes vote
		
Click to expand...

what unit of time is this good sir? half past the morrow or forsooth, could it be till time endeth


----------



## chris661 (Aug 27, 2014)

6inchcup said:



			because countries should have a capital letter to start same as names and days of the week,plus it gives you something to moan about what i write as per normal.
		
Click to expand...

I said WORDS not Letters 

I know that Wales should have a CAPITAL letter but why then use them for the whole word?


----------



## patricks148 (Aug 27, 2014)

CMAC said:



			what unit of time is this good sir? half past the morrow or forsooth, could it be till time endeth

Click to expand...

come... you just couldn't help yourself could you:ears:


----------



## 6inchcup (Aug 27, 2014)

chris661 said:



			I said WORDS not Letters 

I know that Wales should have a CAPITAL letter but why then use them for the whole word?
		
Click to expand...

because i can,and was to emphasise the narrative:ears: of the point i was making,Wales has got a capital its LONDON,i hope to god they leave us its a massive drain on our tax revenue.


----------



## SocketRocket (Aug 27, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and the YES campaign don't even have to raise as a risk the possibility/probability of BorisJ being next Prime Minister.  The Scottish electorate are I am sure well aware of that - just so happens that at the moment it's not at the forefront of everyone's thinking.  

But as a NO vote looms...

*the prospect of a ToryUKIP coalition government led by Farage and BorisJ might cause some to pause...

and reflect...

on what could be.*..
		
Click to expand...

A new exiting era for the country.  Thats what!


----------



## CMAC (Aug 27, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			A new exiting era for the country.  Thats what!
		
Click to expand...

you have to insert smileys or people might take you seriously


----------



## CMAC (Aug 27, 2014)

patricks148 said:



			come... you just couldn't help yourself could you:ears:
		
Click to expand...

you set em up, I'll knock em down


----------



## williamalex1 (Aug 27, 2014)

CMAC said:



			you set em up, I'll knock em down

Click to expand...

Hodem and Dodem :rofl:


----------



## SocketRocket (Aug 28, 2014)

CMAC said:



			you have to insert smileys or people might take you seriously

Click to expand...

OK.   Labour will be the saviour of our countries problems after the next election:       :rofl:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 28, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			A new exiting era for the country.  Thats what!
		
Click to expand...

did you mean exiting - or did you mean exciting?


----------



## SocketRocket (Aug 28, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			did you mean exiting - or did you mean exciting? 

Click to expand...

Yes, that as well.  Actually thats the main component :thup:


----------

