# Making a Good, Full, Hip Turn in the Backswing



## One Planer (Mar 16, 2015)

As per the title. What, exactly, constitutes a good, full hip turn in the backswing?

How much is too much? Or how little is too little?


Below is a selection of images of popular tour players at the top of their backswing:



















And one guy stood the wrong way around :smirk:







All the players above have varying degrees of hip turn in the backswing, from a little to a Bubba-lot.

Is there such a thing as too much or little hip turn in the backswing?

Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## CMAC (Mar 16, 2015)

Gareth, no offence mate but your head is getting full of spaghetti over the swing.


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Mar 16, 2015)

Read "The Plane Truth" by Jim Hardy. A one plane swing, where arms & shoulders swing on the same plane, works by the upper body coiling & uncoiling against resistance from the hips, which don't rotate much. In a two plane swing (arms swinging much steeper than the shoulders Ã  la Bubba) the power is generated by the hips turning & arms swinging. More power is available from the latter but, with more moving parts, timing is much more important.


----------



## One Planer (Mar 16, 2015)

CMAC said:



			Gareth, no offence mate but your head is getting full of spaghetti over the swing.
		
Click to expand...

For once, this is absolutely nothing to do with me or my swing :thup:

This is a topic I got talking about the other night at the course with a group of friends.

What is considered correct? 

Does it matter?

Is there even a right and wrong?

Simple really :thup:


----------



## Region3 (Mar 16, 2015)

List those players in order of amount of hip turn, then list them in order of how far they hit the ball.

Pretty much the same.

Whether there's anything to that or not I don't know.


----------



## One Planer (Mar 16, 2015)

Region3 said:



			List those players in order of amount of hip turn, then list them in order of how far they hit the ball.

Pretty much the same.

Whether there's anything to that or not I don't know.
		
Click to expand...

Bigger turn,  bigger distance?


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Mar 16, 2015)

Gareth said:



			Bigger turn,  bigger distance?
		
Click to expand...

Bigger miss.


----------



## One Planer (Mar 16, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			Bigger miss.
		
Click to expand...

How so?


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2015)

I notice you don't have the World #1 (Rory) in any of those pics. He doesn't have a lot of hip turn on the backswing, but he does have an extremely fast one on the downswing. Combined with the pretty full shoulder turn and considerable leg action, that's what gives Rory his speed.

Jim McLean actually promoted a concept, from The Golf Machine, that he called the X-Factor, which is the difference between the rotation of the hips and that of the shoulder - the greater the difference, the more power. It's not particularly accurate/reliable imo though! 

The swing can be modeled as a series of levers with torque generators at each of Torso, Shoulders, Arms and Wrists. The varying amounts of torque applied at each of these points (and their timing) governs the speed of the clubhead. The torque applied by arms is actually the least - the uncocking of the wrist applies 50% more.It's the Shoulders and Torso that apply the most torque.

Heres the reference http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Publ... forward dynamics model of the golf swing.pdf


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Mar 16, 2015)

Gareth said:



			How so?
		
Click to expand...

Usually more moving parts. Bubba's a good example. How Rory hits it so straight is a mystery.


----------



## One Planer (Mar 16, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			Usually more moving parts. Bubba's a good example. How Rory hits it so straight is a mystery.
		
Click to expand...

But us it really more moving  parts? 

Everything that would be moving anyway is just turning a little further?


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2015)

Gareth said:



			But us it really more moving  parts? 

Everything that would be moving anyway is just turning a little further?
		
Click to expand...

Indeed! Probably better to say 'more possibility for the timing to go wrong'! Especially if those 'further turns' are happening a lot quicker!


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Mar 16, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Indeed! Probably better to say 'more possibility for the timing to go wrong'! Especially if those 'further turns' are happening a lot quicker!
		
Click to expand...

You're right, better explanation.


----------



## Region3 (Mar 16, 2015)

Foxholer said:



*I notice you don't have the World #1 (Rory) in any of those pics*. He doesn't have a lot of hip turn on the backswing, but he does have an extremely fast one on the downswing. Combined with the pretty full shoulder turn and considerable leg action, that's what gives Rory his speed.

Jim McLean actually promoted a concept, from The Golf Machine, that he called the X-Factor, which is the difference between the rotation of the hips and that of the shoulder - the greater the difference, the more power. It's not particularly accurate/reliable imo though! 

The swing can be modeled as a series of levers with torque generators at each of Torso, Shoulders, Arms and Wrists. The varying amounts of torque applied at each of these points (and their timing) governs the speed of the clubhead. The torque applied by arms is actually the least - the uncocking of the wrist applies 50% more.It's the Shoulders and Torso that apply the most torque.

Heres the reference http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Publ... forward dynamics model of the golf swing.pdf

Click to expand...

Who is the second pic of? I thought it was Rory.


----------



## Craigg (Mar 16, 2015)

I, probably wrongly, have to make quite a full hip turn. If I don't I find myself coming over the top on the downswing.  Making a big hip turn gives me room to get things moving down on the inside. Not text book I know but I seem to get away with it.


----------



## the_coach (Mar 16, 2015)

just a question of physicality - size & strength plus flexibility, & anatomy. there's no real difference to having a larger turn or less of one in regards to a so called 'one plane swing' or 'two plane swing'

Tour players in general have more hip turn than folks can really 'see' in a 2d vid. most have more the 40Âº in the backswing (Rory Mc included) & the Tour players average hip angle just prior to impact is around 53Âº open, average hip angle at impact for club golfers around 31Âº open. most club golfers hips are too square into & at impact, there hip clearance happening after the balls been struck so they often times believe they really are clearing the hips, they are but often it's after the main event has happened.

you have to either be very naturally hyper-flexible or train many times a week to really be able to rotate the upper spine to 90Âº or past with very little hip turn - lumber spinal region connected to the pelvic girdle they tend to rotate together a ways more so you need a fair range of mobility lumbar to thoracic spine region if the hips are being restricted.

plus you need to have a good lordosis of the left & right laterals & rib cage to have good lateral side bend in the left side in the backswing & right side in the downswing, it's side bend that more keeps the spine angle over the ball so the swing motion stays in posture back to the top then back down through impact.

as a general rule club golfers would be a good ways better off having a hip turn in the backswing rather than over-restricting it.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Who is the second pic of? I thought it was Rory.
		
Click to expand...

Doh! It is indeed. And I should have mentioned the phrase 'relative to other Pros' too.



the_coach said:




as a general rule club golfers would be a good ways better off having a hip turn in the backswing rather than over-restricting it.

Click to expand...

Agreed. If only I could!


----------



## sawtooth (Mar 16, 2015)

My thought is that as long as I make a full 90 degree turn of the shoulders I dont really worry how much the hips turn. I mean they have to turn with the shoulders by their natural amount anyhow, best not to think about it IMO.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 16, 2015)

Around 40 deg is about right.


----------



## bobmac (Mar 17, 2015)

Go down the beach, pick up a pebble and throw it in the sea.

About that much.


----------



## chrisd (Mar 17, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Go down the beach, pick up a pebble and throw it in the sea.

About that much.
		
Click to expand...

That's easy for me Bob as I only live 15 mins from the coast, but what about someone living in Birmingham?


----------



## One Planer (Mar 17, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Go down the beach, pick up a pebble and throw it in the sea.

About that much.
		
Click to expand...

While I think the analogy is great, wouldn't the amount of turn depend on how far you want to throw the pebble?

I.E If I wanted to throw it 20 yards, there would be little turn. If I wanted to try and hit the French coast it would be a much bigger turn.

The main reason I started this tread was very simple. You often hear the words "Make a good hip turn" or "Make a full hip turn" or "Your hip turn isn't big enough", but what actually constitutes making a good hip turn? And the vice versa of not making one big enough?

The answers so far have been great :thup:


----------



## bobmac (Mar 17, 2015)

If you dont sway, you will turn.
If you turn too much with a locked right leg, the shaft will get across the line and point to the right. Not ideal.
Keep the right knee flexed and turn into it but not too far as you could risk injury.


----------



## bobmac (Mar 17, 2015)

chrisd said:



			That's easy for me Bob as I only live 15 mins from the coast, but what about someone living in Birmingham?
		
Click to expand...

There's always one and it's always you  :angry:


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2015)

Gareth said:



			While I think the analogy is great, wouldn't the amount of turn depend on how far you want to throw the pebble?

I.E If I wanted to throw it 20 yards, there would be little turn. If I wanted to try and hit the French coast it would be a much bigger turn.

The main reason I started this tread was very simple. You often hear the words "Make a good hip turn" or "Make a full hip turn" or "Your hip turn isn't big enough", but what actually constitutes making a good hip turn? And the vice versa of not making one big enough?

The answers so far have been great :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Surely the analogy holds up for all distances! For short shots (or throws), you don't need much hip-turn, but for 'full' swings (and throws) you need a 'full' turn.


----------



## One Planer (Mar 17, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Surely the analogy holds up for all distances! For short shots (or throws), you don't need much hip-turn, but for 'full' swings (and throws) you need a 'full' turn.
		
Click to expand...

Is there an echo in here :ears:


----------



## CMAC (Mar 18, 2015)

how much 'hip turn' does Iron Byron have


----------



## dsanders9944 (Mar 19, 2015)

Hi Gareth

As a typical rule of thumb you should turn your hips 45 degrees around your torso.  I would never reccomend you try to restrict your hip turn.  Also pay attention to the axis your hips are turning on.  When you turn back make sure the trail hip is turning on a steep enough angle and not turning flat as this could cause a flat shoulder turn and make you lose your spine angle through out the swing.


----------

