# European tour vs PGA tour



## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

What are your thoughts on the differences between the two tours and do you have a preference to which tour you follow/support?

It seems to me that over the years the 'European' tour is getting caught up in trying to emulate its American cousin and has created the race to Dubai etc to be able to compete financially and in marketing terms but is always seen as the 'lesser' tour.

Is it all simply about money or are the PGA and its players superior to the european tour?

I'm not sure I have a favourite tour now but I definitely prefer the Open to any other event as it has so much history and hasnt been 'Americanised' at all. Its golf in its purest form in my opinion. 

I also think that the new handicap system seems to be bowing down and becoming 'Americanised' and it seems as tho we may lose our identity eventually.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2018)

I enjoy the European Tour and not sure I agree its trying to emulate the PGA by introducing the Race to Dubai. It'll always be a lesser tour in terms of the sheer size of purses and sponsorship deals but I feel the ET gives players a far better introduction to professional life. It does suffer by perhaps having too many smaller tournaments over too many countries but again, these give the lesser players a chance to earn some important cash towards keeping their card.

The PGA tour though is the main event where the top players play on a regular basis and so as a showcase for the best golfers in the world it can't be beaten. However I would like to see the type of courses varied more often and the WGC last week showed how a course could be  set up to test players and produce an exciting spectacle without it needing to be target golf and a birdie festival


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## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

Then its only really about money?

If the top 10 guys from the pga tour played 10 uk links courses in a row with all the european guys they most likely wouldnt be the top 10 after that.


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## Val (Mar 7, 2018)

I rarely watch European tour events on TV and normally always catch the back 9 of the PGA event on Sunday, this is more to do with timings rather than preference.

As for the tours themselves. Iâ€™m of the belief they should get their heads together and create a world wide tour that allows Europeans and those who prefer to play in Europe to keep doing so and vice versa. A global tour may attract larger sponsorship and more money to events to give European events a bit more parity with the US events.


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## USER1999 (Mar 7, 2018)

Yep, squarely in the camp of those who watch the pga, due to time difference. I sit down at 6.30 ish, may be 9 ish, and watch what is on.


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## IainP (Mar 7, 2018)

Mischievous......
European Tour - medium slow
PGA - ridiculously slow


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## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

murphthemog said:



			Yep, squarely in the camp of those who watch the pga, due to time difference. I sit down at 6.30 ish, may be 9 ish, and watch what is on.
		
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Makes sense.


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## Grant85 (Mar 7, 2018)

I definitely watch more PGA tour due to timings as much as anything. 

But I am usually most interested in an event when a European is up there and would def be less interested if it was just Americans in the event.

the PGA tour is definitely the bigger draw financially, but the ET has caught up a bit of ground in recent years & I think you may see through the summer the Rolex events with many big fields and top world players having multiple events over here, rather than just 1 event prior to the Open.

ET is also an important access point to many people in the game and these players do benefit from playing in more varied courses and conditions. Brooks Koepka being a successful American who played a few years on the ET (probably because he qualified through Q school & didnâ€™t for the PGA tour).


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2018)

Depends on what event it is - work shifts so can watch the ET during the day but also watch the odd event at night - try and watch the WGC mainly and events where I know the course is going to be good to watch also depends on who is playing etc


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 7, 2018)

To be honest I'll watch most golf on TV. I can't argue with Ademac's assessment that it all comes down to money but both tours are brands and a business and of course they look to turn a profit.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 7, 2018)

ademac said:



			Then its only really about money?

If the top 10 guys from the pga tour played 10 uk links courses in a row with all the european guys they most likely wouldnt be the top 10 after that.
		
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Why?

How much  experience of links courses do the top European players have?

I would suggest that it's little or no more than the top PGA players. 

There's probably more variety of courses and conditions on the European Tour but the quality can sometimes be lacking.

Facilities for players are generally better on the PGA  Tour as obviously are prize funds. 

As for the quality of the players I don't think it's possible to compare as it's only possible to beat the players in the tournament in which you are playing.


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## Jacko_G (Mar 7, 2018)

Shift worker here so I'm probably 50/50 split of what I watch.

Gotta be honest and say I prefer watching the European Tour, more variety of courses, weather conditions and better educated crowds.


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## Val (Mar 7, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			Shift worker here so I'm probably 50/50 split of what I watch.

Gotta be honest and say I prefer watching the European Tour, more variety of courses, weather conditions and better educated crowds.
		
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I wouldnâ€™t disagree about the variety of courses on the European Tour


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			Shift worker here so I'm probably 50/50 split of what I watch.

Gotta be honest and say I prefer watching the European Tour, more variety of courses, weather conditions and better educated crowds.
		
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Agree on the last couple of sentences- courses also seem harder , more skill required ( not just birdie fest ) and definitely a more cultured educated respectful crowd


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## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			Why?

How much  experience of links courses do the top European players have?

I would suggest that it's little or no more than the top PGA players. 

There's probably more variety of courses and conditions on the European Tour but the quality can sometimes be lacking.

Facilities for players are generally better on the PGA  Tour as obviously are prize funds. 

As for the quality of the players I don't think it's possible to compare as it's only possible to beat the players in the tournament in which you are playing.
		
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Because a lot of european tour players, mainly uk based, will have a lot of experience on links courses and would therefore give the top pga guys a run for their money.
I never said the 'top' european tour players as they will spend a lot of their time playing on both tours.

My statement was in answer to a previous reply about the pga tour players being the best etc. and I dont know if this would be the case if they were tested on different courses.

I think we have so much to offer and it gets overlooked for american golf or american style golf and it seems a huge shame to me.


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## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

But money talks I guess.


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## mikejohnchapman (Mar 7, 2018)

The main difference is the European Tour is in effect a world tour when you consider the co-sanctioned events with the various tours around the world. It.s not just the courses but the whole experience of travel and playing in radically different environments.

There is much less variety on the PGA tour (yes I know they play in Mexico and Canada).

The money involved always means the best players play the PGA tour - similar to football and the premier league.

As to being more interesting - well to paraphrase Shane Warne when describing Monty Panesar - watching the 40 odd tournaments on the PGA tour is like watching the same tournament 40 odd times.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2018)

ademac said:



			Because a lot of european tour players, mainly uk based, will have a lot of experience on links courses and would therefore give the top pga guys a run for their money.
I never said the 'top' european tour players as they will spend a lot of their time playing on both tours.

My statement was in answer to a previous reply about the pga tour players being the best etc. and I dont know if this would be the case if they were tested on different courses.

I think we have so much to offer and it gets overlooked for american golf or american style golf and it seems a huge shame to me.
		
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Most major winners are us based arent they? That would imo give the impression that they're the better players.

I don't go along with the european courses being trickier either, if we accept that that generally the european tour has a lower calibre of player, certainly in the winter swing, then some of the scoure's under par suggest the courses can't be too tricky.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 7, 2018)

ademac said:



			But money talks I guess.
		
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Money and climate talks - the best in the world arenâ€™t going to come over on a regular basis to play courses that change dependent on the weather - they are going to continue to play the pristine US Parkland courses where there are millions to play for


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## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

Papas1982 said:



			Most major winners are us based arent they? That would imo give the impression that they're the better players.

I don't go along with the european courses being trickier either, if we accept that that generally the european tour has a lower calibre of player, certainly in the winter swing, then some of the scoure's under par suggest the courses can't be too tricky.
		
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Most, well three quarters of the majors are based in America so maybe that gives them an advantage? 
If 3 of the 4 majors were in the uk on links courses do you think that would still be the case?
I'm not sure I would accept that the european tour has a lower calibre of player either.


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## Val (Mar 7, 2018)

ademac said:



			Because a lot of european tour players, mainly uk based, will have a lot of experience on links courses and would therefore give the top pga guys a run for their money.
		
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3 of the last 5 Open winners were American ............... just saying


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## NWJocko (Mar 7, 2018)

ademac said:



			Then its only really about money?
		
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Of course it is, these are professionals so will play wherever they can make the most cash.

PGA Tour is, to me, pretty boring to watch bar a few courses but has by far the best fields due to the money and ranking points on offer.

Rarely get the chance to watch much European Tour these days due to time.


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## Spear-Chucker (Mar 7, 2018)

Much prefer the variety of the European tour and think it has a great identity. I like the new initiatives being tried and different countries visited. The US dullfest can naff right off. Money talks for many though so hence they flock to awful, boring resort courses.


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## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

Val said:



			3 of the last 5 Open winners were American ............... just saying
		
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But how many of the 5 before that?


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## ademac (Mar 7, 2018)

NWJocko said:



			Of course it is, these are professionals so will play wherever they can make the most cash.

PGA Tour is, to me, pretty boring to watch bar a few courses but has by far the best fields due to the money and ranking points on offer.

Rarely get the chance to watch much European Tour these days due to time.
		
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Do you think this could have any bearing on uk golf membership numbers being down?

People may be finding it harder to relate to golf nowadays as it seems to be much more focused on the other side of the pond.


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## NWJocko (Mar 7, 2018)

ademac said:



			Do you think this could have any bearing on uk golf membership numbers being down?

People may be finding it harder to relate to golf nowadays as it seems to be much more focused on the other side of the pond.
		
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If it is a contributor it will be 0.000001% in my view.  European Tour is shown during daytime when folk are at work/Uni etc. PGA Tour is on from about 7-11 Thursday to Friday so perfect timing really.  Maybe ET should do some televised night golf events from Dubai/Turkey etc?

Far fewer council owned courses with dirt cheap memberships for kids, people having less time/disposable income after buying a Pret every day for lunch, greater availability of options in terms of what to do with free time and ease of travel to them etc are more a bearing IMO (note this isn't meant to be an exhaustive list  )


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## Papas1982 (Mar 7, 2018)

ademac said:



			Most, well three quarters of the majors are based in America so maybe that gives them an advantage? 
If 3 of the 4 majors were in the uk on links courses do you think that would still be the case?
I'm not sure I would accept that the european tour has a lower calibre of player either.
		
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Rory, Sergio. Fleetwood etc all go to Dubia for some money and decent weather and feature at the top of leaderboards. Now they're just part of the pack in the US.

Not sure many european (tour players) go to the us and do better than they do in europe.

I also think it's fanciful to think that all our (european) touraments are links style. On the european tour there are plenty of park land courses.

I meant most open winners aren't european tour players anymore. Historically maybe, but imo the PGA tour is the main tour and its where most players aspire to be.


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## Slab (Mar 8, 2018)

For a regular tour event it's the ET for the variety of courses/conditions etc and the broadcast times but if I can I'll watch the PGA too (even if just the highlights because they do typically get the best players) Saying that i'll watch any golf, I get some coverage from sunshine and asia tours and last weeks LPGA event was excellent viewing

But as a fav the ET edges it over the PGA for the reasons above


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## Capella (Mar 8, 2018)

I watch neither on a a regular basis, for the simple reason that I don't have a Sky subscription (and not even a tv) and that's pretty much the only way you can watch in Germany. I do get glimpses here and there if someone posts a YouTube video. But I do follow the scores of my favourite players. Emotionally, I am a bit more invested in the ET, mostly because of the fantasy golf thing and the forum league.


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## Val (Mar 8, 2018)

ademac said:



			But how many of the 5 before that?
		
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Not sure the point your trying to make, if anything your making my point for me. Go back to 2000 and you have 10 in the last 17 from USA, 2 from Britain,


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 8, 2018)

I am not sure that the image of the ET is helped by some events. 

Currently watching the Indian Open on Now TV and whilst the course looks interesting enough the overall feel isn't helped by there seeming to be more players in the field than there are spectators. 

Yes I appreciate that golf is very much a minority sport in India but it seems more like a top amateur comp than a Tour event.


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## ademac (Mar 8, 2018)

Val said:



			Not sure the point your trying to make, if anything your making my point for me. Go back to 2000 and you have 10 in the last 17 from USA, 2 from Britain,
		
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But then surely we could just keep going back until it started? 

My point is really that I dont think the US tour or players are that much better than the ET and players but seem to get a lot more recognition.
Which is basically down to money which brings up countless more debates.

 I was interested to hear peoples views on which tour, if any, that they prefered and why?


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## Val (Mar 8, 2018)

ademac said:



			But then surely we could just keep going back until it started? 

My point is really that I dont think the US tour or players are that much better than the ET and players but seem to get a lot more recognition.
Which is basically down to money which brings up countless more debates.

 I was interested to hear peoples views on which tour, if any, that they prefered and why?
		
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If you donâ€™t think they are better then look at the world rankings, look at who won 3 out of 4 majors last year, those stats donâ€™t lie.


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## ademac (Mar 8, 2018)

Val said:



			If you donâ€™t think they are better then look at the world rankings, look at who won 3 out of 4 majors last year, those stats donâ€™t lie.
		
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I personally think the world golf rankings are naff and a bit biased if you look into it.

Its all subjective I suppose, thanks for your input. ðŸ‘


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## Val (Mar 8, 2018)

ademac said:



			I personally think the world golf rankings are naff and a bit biased if you look into it.

Its all subjective I suppose, thanks for your input. ðŸ‘
		
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:rofl:

Aye no bother, I suppose if you look at last years major wins thatâ€™ll be subjective too

:rofl:


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## Dan2501 (Mar 8, 2018)

I watch and follow more PGA Tour due to the time that the broadcasts are shown and probably do prefer it generally. A few ET tournaments I'll watch but mainly only the big ones. I follow the results for both each week but definitely prefer watching the PGA Tour.


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## Jacko_G (Mar 8, 2018)

ademac said:



			I personally think the world golf rankings are naff and a bit biased if you look into it.

Its all subjective I suppose, thanks for your input. &#62541;
		
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You are correct when you say the world rankings are biased, the ranking points are heavily biased in favour of American tournaments. The fact that America attracts the top players from outside of the USA suggests that the Tour and set up is doing something correct so you could argue that they deserve the extra points.

Europe will always be a second rate tour now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 8, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			You are correct when you say the world rankings are biased, the ranking points are heavily biased in favour of American tournaments. The fact that America attracts the top players from outside of the USA suggests that the Tour and set up is doing something correct so you could argue that they deserve the extra points.

Europe will always be a second rate tour now.
		
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Climate and money are what attracts the players and the ranking points that they hold also attract others - there are some very big financial backing for their events and add in the lovely sun you donâ€™t blame them for playing there 

I think it would be great if the ranking points were determined by the tournament and its evenly spread across the tours


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## rulefan (Mar 8, 2018)

How many top US players don'y come to the Open. Many just don't want to travel.
If they've ever made it to Europe, they probably think that India is an English county.


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## ademac (Mar 8, 2018)

Val said:



			:rofl:

Aye no bother, I suppose if you look at last years major wins thatâ€™ll be subjective too

:rofl:
		
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Well clearly not because that isnt subjective.


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## Dan2501 (Mar 8, 2018)

There are arguments both ways around the whole rankings points debate. There was a big spat on social media last year where Grayson Murray and Kelly Kraft got into it with Ben An and Thomas Pieters - summed up pretty well here:

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/ryan_bal...-official-world-golf-ranking-easy-fix-104215/


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## ademac (Mar 8, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			You are correct when you say the world rankings are biased, the ranking points are heavily biased in favour of American tournaments. The fact that America attracts the top players from outside of the USA suggests that the Tour and set up is doing something correct so you could argue that they deserve the extra points.

Europe will always be a second rate tour now.
		
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I know and its a big shame imo.


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## ademac (Mar 8, 2018)

rulefan said:



			How many top US players don'y come to the Open. Many just don't want to travel.
If they've ever made it to Europe, they probably think that India is an English county.
		
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Which is part of the reason I think that if 3/4 of majors were in europe then the US wouldnt have so many of 'the best' players in the world.

Of course its all speculative but just my opinion.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 8, 2018)

World Rankings points are largely based upon the quality of the field. 

If, therefore, the majority of the top players base themselves on the PGA Tour then this will be reflected in the OWGR points awarded. 

Makes no difference if those players are  from America, Europe, Australia, South Africa or wherever .

I have followed golf for nearly 50 years and throughout that time the American tour has been acknowledged as the strongest in global terms


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 8, 2018)

As a consumer, I'll watch golf on TV whenever I get a chance, and so you have to applaud Sky and both the ET and PGA tours for their coverage. Does it grow the game? I would doubt it. Maybe when Woods was the dominant force and before his private life imploded. There's no doubt the quality is better in the US on a more regular basis but as the Ryder Cup has shown, even with a number of ET tour stalwarts in the side we can usually give the US a run for their money


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## Val (Mar 8, 2018)

MetalMickie said:



			World Rankings points are largely based upon the quality of the field. 

If, therefore, the majority of the top players base themselves on the PGA Tour then this will be reflected in the OWGR points awarded. 

Makes no difference if those players are  from America, Europe, Australia, South Africa or wherever .

I have followed golf for nearly 50 years and throughout that time the American tour has been acknowledged as the strongest in global terms
		
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Knowledge is king, you my friend nailed the answer and reasons


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## JT77 (Mar 8, 2018)

Like a few have said, the pga tour is more applicable time wise for me, so I tend to watch it more, Thursday through Sunday, not all of it but some, the Euro tour I catch som highlights and some sundays  I tend to watch anything if itâ€™s on though and Iâ€™m not fighting for the tv!


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## drewster (Mar 9, 2018)

Val said:



			3 of the last 5 Open winners were American ............... just saying
		
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Also "journeyman" like Curtis, Hamilton and Cink have picked up the Claret Jug in recent times. Playing devils advocate I'd suggest that Americans relish the chance to play in the open and it gives them a better chance of picking up a major than any other .


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