# SeveDay - Are They Bandits?



## Rory130911 (Sep 11, 2012)

Just seen the winning scores in Seveday.com - does anyone know about any of these individuals? Some of the Scores are beyond belief:

http://www.seveday.com/leaderboard

The organisers have put out an email about this - just wondered if anyone could help?

I mean, I can just about believe 45 points, but what about these scores:

[TABLE="class: table table-striped"]
[TR]
Name 							Score 						[/TR]
 					 					 						[TR]
 							[TD]S Varma[/TD]
 							[TD]62[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]T Caplehorn[/TD]
 							[TD]55[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]B Prewett[/TD]
 							[TD]50[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]P Calver[/TD]
 							[TD]49[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

By my calculations they have shot (36 being par with handicap) 13-26 under their handicaps?


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## Kellfire (Sep 11, 2012)

62? Would never show my face at a golf course again.


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## Foxholer (Sep 11, 2012)

62!

That's equivalent to a 26 handicapper shooting level par!

I think that's rather more than a 'good day'!


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## HawkeyeMS (Sep 11, 2012)

are they bandits you ask? I don't know, but The car park was full horses at the end


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## quinn (Sep 11, 2012)

is that for 1 round or 2.can't be right surely ?


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## bobmac (Sep 11, 2012)

Pathetic.
Seve would be turning in his grave


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## HawkeyeMS (Sep 11, 2012)

quinn said:



			is that for 1 round or 2.can't be right surely ?
		
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18 holes shotgun, which is apt considering the banditry going on


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 11, 2012)

Can't believe I had 55pts and only came 2nd  :ears:


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## macca64 (Sep 11, 2012)

41 pts last!!!!!!! lets forget the word bandits and say cheats those scores are just a joke!!!!!!!!!!!


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 11, 2012)

62 points!!  I would want 3 rounds to pass that might just about make 55 in 2, a lot of Mexicans about!!


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## Crow (Sep 11, 2012)

They do look quite good scores....

This is what it says on the Seve site about qualification.

_"The tournament will commence on 1st July 2012. You have the whole of July and August 2012 to play your qualifying round of golf (18 holes) on any European course and submit your Stableford scores on the Seve Day site. Try your luck at playing like Seve during the month of the Open Championship, where Seve won his first major.
__Scores must be submitted by 31st August 2012 and all tournament results will then be posted online. The top 72 full handicap Stableford scores from across Europe will then be invited to play in the Seve Day final. Finalists will win a trip to the star-studded celebrity final and be in with a chance of winning a trip to the US Masters in Augusta and much more!"

_Open to serious abuse if ever a format was.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 11, 2012)

Abused and then some. I would love to see the finals televised and see their efforts when there is nowhere to hide.


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## Mattyboy (Sep 11, 2012)

Crow said:



			They do look quite good scores....
		
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A slight understatement if you ask me! (Insert smile of your choice).........


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## backwoodsman (Sep 11, 2012)

A bit more from the site suggests the golfers & level of probity they are expecting...

*Do I have to be a golf club member to enter?*
No you donâ€™t have to be a club member to take part â€“ anyone can play.

*How do I calculate my score by using the Stableford Scoring System?*
All scores for Seve Day will be worked out using Stableford scoring. If you are not familiar with Stableford, it works by giving you points for your score on each hole as follows:
0	Double bogey or above
1 point	Bogey
2 points	Par etc

Nuff sed I think


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## chrisd (Sep 12, 2012)

You can only begin to imagine what the real golf on finals day is going to be like!

It'll be loads of "put me down for 9 for 3 points mate"! "the winner with a score of 42 points at the turn and a final tally of 71 points, on countback from 4 others.......................  from Cheatham in the Rough  - Pancho Gonzales"


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2012)

When will these people learn.
IF YOU OFFER AN ALL EXPENSES PAID TRIP TO THE MASTERS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CHEAT!!!
I cant believe the scores don't even have to be confirmed by a club.
And if they're not a member of any club, how do they work out their NET score without a handicap?
And how come if it's open to all of Europe, all the 72 winners appear to be British?


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## Birchy (Sep 12, 2012)

When i saw the way the comp was run i had a feeling it would be a farce. Thats why i didnt enter. Cant believe the great mans name has been put to the event tbh.


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## louise_a (Sep 12, 2012)

Someone has tracked the 62 pointer down on Twitter, She posts all here scores on Twitter, lots of rounds in the 90s then a 79, she has her handicap down as 28/29.


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## Birchy (Sep 12, 2012)

louise_a said:



			Someone has tracked the 62 pointer down on Twitter, She posts all here scores on Twitter, lots of rounds in the 90s then a 79, she has her handicap down as 28/29.
		
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79 by a so called 28/29 handicapper? Its just not even funny! I wouldnt be able to sleep at night!


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## Ethan (Sep 12, 2012)

It is, of course, possible for someone to have one of those days when the ball seems magically attracted to the hole, and every break goes for them. But the probability of that happening is less and less as the score gets better and better. For someone to score 62 points in one round of golf sounds like it would be so improbable as to be more or less impossible, and should raise serious concerns over the integrity of the handicap or the score.


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## louise_a (Sep 12, 2012)

The T Caplehorn is the 13 year old son of PGA coach Kevin Caplehorn, he has dropped fom 13 to 6 during the summer according to his dad's twitter.


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## User 105 (Sep 12, 2012)

That's just an utter disgrace. How any competition organiser in their right mind could let those scores stand is an insult to Seve.

And if that is the Son of a PGA pro then that really calls his integrity into question. If my maths is correct, and assuming he was off 13 when he put the score in, he shot a about a gross 6 under par. Yeah, that's possible.


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## MashieNiblick (Sep 12, 2012)

Just a thought but that is a very valuable prize. Isn't the R&A limit for Amateurs Â£500 or am I missing something?


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## User 105 (Sep 12, 2012)

I actually wonder what kind of score would cause them to ask questions. What if someone stuck in a 70 or even 80.


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## louise_a (Sep 12, 2012)

More digging, well its raining and I have nothing better to do. S Varna plays at Sale and posts all her scores, claims 287 handicap but doesnt appear in any results for Sale Ladies competitions.

nett 48!!


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

Can you imagine putting in say 45 points , which the odd day is makeable by some , youd be going home thinking , jeez they will think i cheated or im a bandit  , then see the scores ... darn only 17 points off top spot  .. 17 putts less i had a chance 

Sure if this is let stand it will ruin the comp forever , charity or no charity , very few would want to be associated with that ..


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## User 105 (Sep 12, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Sure if this is let stand it will ruin the comp forever , charity or no charity , very few would want to be associated with that ..
		
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Exactly what I was thinking. The're only damaging themselves by allowing this. As you say who genuinely would want to pay to enter next year if they intended putting an honest score in.


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## Scott1505 (Sep 12, 2012)

louise_a said:



			More digging, well its raining and I have nothing better to do. S Varna plays at Sale and posts all her scores, claims 287 handicap but doesnt appear in any results for Sale Ladies competitions.

nett 48!!

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It does appear that she hits a long ball off the tee! So can see how she managed to go low! ;-)


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## BTatHome (Sep 12, 2012)

Scott1505 said:



			It does appear that she hits a long ball off the tee! So can see how she managed to go low! ;-)
		
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Clearly has a killer short game, according to those low rounds


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## BTatHome (Sep 12, 2012)

Pretty light on her feet too, shot a 79 is a little over 2 hours.


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## BTatHome (Sep 12, 2012)

I particularly like the stats for the 6th hole, where she dumped it 72 yds off the tee (314 yard hole) and then proceeded to hit GIR and 2 putt for par .... would love to see this round on tv !!


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## CMAC (Sep 12, 2012)

it saddens me to see such scores, an individual can play out his/her skin once in a blue moon, but there's loads of them doing it here! 

How do they win if you can play and not be a member of a club which I assume means no handicap cert, the ones who won should have their h/cap slashed at their home club surely.


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## drutz (Sep 12, 2012)

BTatHome said:



			I particularly like the stats for the 6th hole, where she dumped it 72 yds off the tee (314 yard hole) and then proceeded to hit GIR and 2 putt for par .... would love to see this round on tv !!
		
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 It would be an amazing 230+ drive from the fairway to the green. She is surely going to feature on the tour some day soon with recovery play like that.


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

Surely the 11th was the pinnacle of her supreme skill - a drive of 1 yard, followed by 2 putts from 133 yards for a textbook par 3.


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## BTatHome (Sep 12, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			How do they win if you can play and not be a member of a club which I assume means no handicap cert, the ones who won should have their h/cap slashed at their home club surely.
		
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they mention society and online h/caps being accepted.

I know one of the guys on that list, improving junior who actually got a 3.2 h/cap cut due to the score he entered the Seve comp with!!


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## drutz (Sep 12, 2012)

rosecott said:



			Surely the 11th was the pinnacle of her supreme skill - a drive of 1 yard, followed by 2 putts from 133 yards for a textbook par 3.
		
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Well as she hit a GIR on this hole the fairway must be only half a yard long from the tee and that leaves a green that is 133yds long. Simple really


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

And acording to equipment used , doesnt carry irons , wedges or even a putter ha ha .. ah i found out what ive been doing wrong at last ...

NOT CHEATING

Crikey she has putting stats for 10 holes on the back 9 aswell


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## Ian_S (Sep 12, 2012)

Remember Rhein Gibson, who went round in 55? Well that equals 52 stableford points. And this person is coming in with 62 points? Even Kim Jong-Il would be embarrassed to claim such a score.


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## BTatHome (Sep 12, 2012)

Just beware of putting the name into google images, certainly not safe for your work computer !


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

STATEMENT FROM THE ORGANISERS,....

Dear Seve Day participants,
As you will have no doubt seen the leader board of the top 72 scores for Seve Day have now been announced for the final at The Belfry next month.
Since publishing this list we have had a number of emails from players querying some of the scores at the top of the leader board which appear particularly high, this is something that we have looked into and can confirm that all scores have been officially verified with the playing partners of those individuals as well as their golf clubs where possible.
We are shortly going to be opening discussions with a handful of players about making adjustments to their handicap for the final in light of these scores.
Seve Day is first and foremost a charity initiative, and we are grateful to every one of you who has signed up to take part and helped us to raise close to Â£35,000 for the Seve Ballesteros Foundation. We are fully aware however that for participants the opportunity to compete at the world famous Brabazon Course at The Belfry for a trip to the 2013 US Masters is a once in a lifetime opportunity, so are taking steps to ensure a level playing field.
We are keen to ensure that the integrity of Seve Day is not compromised, after all this fine sport is one that is built on honesty and sportsmanship. Whilst we have taken every possible measure to ensure a clear and transparent scoring system, it is always going to be impossible to completely guarantee the validity of every score and handicap.
Whilst restricting scorecards to those only submitted in registered club competitions would have provided a greater control over the scoring, this would have also made Seve Day inaccessible for non-club members and those unable to make it for a club competition.
By opening up the competition to scores submitted from any round, we were able to make Seve Day accessible to more golfers and raise many more thousands of pounds for the Seve Ballesteros Foundation.
For those of you who have reached the final we would like to extend our congratulations to you and wish you the very best of luck for the big day, and those that missed out we thank you once again for your support in carrying on Seveâ€™s legacy.
Yours faithfully,
Your Seve Day Team


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## drutz (Sep 12, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Since publishing this list we have had a number of emails from players querying some of the scores at the top of the leader board which appear particularly high, this is something that we have looked into and can confirm that all scores have been officially verified with the playing partners of those individuals as well as their golf clubs where possible.
We are shortly going to be opening discussions with a handful of players about making adjustments to their handicap for the final in light of these scores.
		
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So to translate we asked if we could talk their mates and see if the scores are true and some said yes and some said no. Then their mates, who they probably have not promised to take to the Masters, have said it is a true score.

Did I miss anything?


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 12, 2012)

The event is clearly flawed and I would imagine this will be the last one in this format.
Fault of the greedy organisers who assumed that non golf club members would play honestly.
The people who signed the cards are twice as guilty.

Best form of cheating that I know about was an ex county player on the wain who returned cards from open competitions without playing in the events. He got away with it for a couple of years.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

drutz said:



			So to translate we asked if we could talk their BEST mates and see if the scores are true and some said yes and some said no. Then their mates, who they probably have not promised to take to the Masters, have said it is a true score.

Did I miss anything?
		
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Nope cept maybe the word i entered ... 

I love the                          "Since publishing this list we have had a number of emails from players querying some of the scores at the top of the leader board which appear particularly high...

No sh#t  sherlock ... , did ya realy ?


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## drutz (Sep 12, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Nope cept maybe the word i entered ...
		
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Thanks for that didn't think it looked right somehow


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			STATEMENT FROM THE ORGANISERS,....

Since publishing this list we have had a number of emails from players querying some of the scores at the top of the leader board which appear particularly high, this is something that we have looked into and can confirm that all scores have been officially verified with the playing partners of those individuals as well as their golf clubs where possible.
We are shortly going to be opening discussions with a handful of players about making adjustments to their handicap for the final in light of these scores.
		
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What people have been querying a 62 point round of golf?? I find that hard to believe! and I look forward to seeing the 13year old on the tour next year!

I'd have DQed anything above 50 points without even asking the question! 

I have noticed a name (might be a coincidence - disclaimer!) on the list that was caught cheating and banned from a course I used to play near the top but apparently even he knew the limits of bad taste! 

I could stretch to a 20-28 handicapper having a good day and returning mid to high 40s so to be fair there's 2 I'd bin without question and the rest - well I'd make sure I sent a referee out with every group at the "final"


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## need_my_wedge (Sep 12, 2012)

Maybe she didn't enter points scored, she put down her net score down by mistake......:rofl:


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2012)

When I learned my golf, when you had a "good day" that's when you played to your handicap (36 pts)
So 40 pts was frowned upon.
Sadly, now mid to high 40s is regarded as acceptable. :angry:

Come back rule (clause) 19


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## GreiginFife (Sep 12, 2012)

The letter from the organisers is tilted toward one aspect, money. 
It's commendable that they want to support the Seve Foundation and raise as much as possible, but this is not the way to do it.
As many have pointed out any chance of this becoming a popular annual event is now damaged hugely whilst this remains the format. There is also the possibility that more club golfers would have entered (as many could probably see the flaw and not bother as it stands) so maybe would have made more for the Foundation. It was massively short sighted of the organisers and I would be surprised if the event survives in to a second year. 
As for the people posting the scores, some people have no shame.The info that Louise posted up tells it's own story about the individual, rounds of 90+ and then a 76 just when it was needed? Wish I could do that, golf on demand.


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

Are there any Sale Golf Club members on the forum? I wonder if a spokesperson from Sale could be persuaded to contribute to the discussion.


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

bobmac said:



			When I learned my golf, when you had a "good day" that's when you played to your handicap (36 pts)
So 40 pts was frowned upon.
Sadly, now mid to high 40s is regarded as acceptable. :angry:

Come back rule (clause) 19
		
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Maybe I've not got my point across very well there! I agree a good day should return somewhere around your handicap I would say 35-39 points but I've seen and been victim to high handicappers returning scores that made me wish I'd never forked out the entrance fee (especially when they walk off the 18th as I'm stood on the 1st tee!) 

Mid to high 40s
Acceptable - questionable
Believable - regrettably so

50+ 
Acceptable - No
Believable - I'd need some serious proof!


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Come back rule (clause) 19
		
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Any self-respecting club should be using its replacement - clause 23. Our Handicap Committee meets regularly throughout the year, met yesterday, result - clause 23 reductions for two players. The ammunition to aim at rapidly improving players exists, clubs should be willing to pull the trigger.


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

rosecott said:



			Are there any Sale Golf Club members on the forum? I wonder if a spokesperson from Sale could be persuaded to contribute to the discussion.
		
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A quick scan of the Sale G.C results page shows no sign!


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 12, 2012)

Just for fun, I've looked back on my best medal round of the year at my course. Gross 73 (SSS 68) while I was playing off 10.

It works out at 44 stableford points and got me a 1.4 handicap cut..... so CSS must have gone up to 70.

This score was 100% genuine and I'd have been pretty annoyed at anyone who suggested otherwise. (Should have been better in fact - I'm still kicking myself at needing 4 shots to get down from greenside at the 18th).

But that was a great round for me, only bettered a couple of times since despite my golf improving greatly. I'd say anyone scoring in the 50s is, at best, someone with an inaccurate handicap and, more likely, a blatant cheat! 

These scores only cheapen the competition; I can't imagine entering an event like this - what's the point?


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

cookelad said:



			A quick scan of the Sale G.C results page shows no sign!
		
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There was no need to have any club involvement for score submission or any requirement for scores to be achieved in competition. Surely, however, Sale cannot be comfortable with the publicity.


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

rosecott said:



			There was no need to have any club involvement for score submission or any requirement for scores to be achieved in competition. Surely, however, Sale cannot be comfortable with the publicity.
		
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My mistake I thought it had to be a competitive round - I'll bet that was the stupidest assumption I've made this year!


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## walshawwhippet (Sep 12, 2012)

Is there anything in the rules of golf that prevents the organisers from temporarily altering the finalists handicaps to match the score posted. This way Ms Varma would play the final of 4.


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## walshawwhippet (Sep 12, 2012)

walshawwhippet said:



			Is there anything in the rules of golf that prevents the organisers from temporarily altering the finalists handicaps to match the score posted. This way Ms Varma would play the final of 4.
		
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I know this doesn't excuse any cheating that may have gone on. Just trying to make the best of a bad job, and restore some integrity to final at least.


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## louise_a (Sep 12, 2012)

FairwayDodger said:



			Just for fun, I've looked back on my best medal round of the year at my course. Gross 73 (SSS 68) while I was playing off 10.

It works out at 44 stableford points and got me a 1.4 handicap cut..... so CSS must have gone up to 70.

This score was 100% genuine and I'd have been pretty annoyed at anyone who suggested otherwise. (Should have been better in fact - I'm still kicking myself at needing 4 shots to get down from greenside at the 18th).

But that was a great round for me, only bettered a couple of times since despite my golf improving greatly. I'd say anyone scoring in the 50s is, at best, someone with an inaccurate handicap and, more likely, a blatant cheat! 

These scores only cheapen the competition; I can't imagine entering an event like this - what's the point?
		
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When I was flying earlier in the season, I had my best score in a stableford event it was 42pts, I wouldn't have made the top 72 in the Seveday comp.


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## dufferman (Sep 12, 2012)

louise_a said:



			When I was flying earlier in the season, I had my best score in a stableford event it was 42pts, I wouldn't have made the top 72 in the Seveday comp.
		
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When you put it in perspective like that, it's a total joke. It's bad enough that people cheat so blatantly, but when Seve's name is attached to it in any way, it just utterly totally goes against what he and Golf are about.


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## Colin L (Sep 12, 2012)

Are there any gentlemen of the Press on to this?  It would a good article.


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## User 105 (Sep 12, 2012)

Colin L said:



			Are there any gentlemen of the Press on to this?  It would a good article.
		
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I think any article would have to be very carefully written. This is associated with Seve and also for a good cause so you would need to be careful how you 'criticised' the organisers for allowing this situation to arise.


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## Colin L (Sep 12, 2012)

I see that point, but the focus of everyone's outrage is the dishonest participants who are abusing the charity and the good name of Seve.  That would be my line.  The organisers, at worst, are guilty of a remarkable naivety.


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## DCB (Sep 12, 2012)

Whilst the participants have been rightly lambasted for such ridiculous scores, surely the organisers have to accept responsibility for such a debacle as this. Their inability to forsee that such a scoring  trend would be possible when non competitive rounds were played is astonishing. How anyone could be allowed to enter a 'competition' with a self appointed handicap and played at any time, anywhere is beyond me.

Their wee pop-up note about the email complaints is as good as an admission that they got is seriously wrong. 

As for the participants.... sorry I just can't explain my feelings on them without invoking the  automatic sweary filter :rant:


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## seochris (Sep 12, 2012)

quinn said:



			is that for 1 round or 2.can't be right surely ?
		
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 +1 

Must be for 2 rounds but then for 2 rounds its not that good!  Unless it was off 3/4!


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

BTatHome said:



			Just beware of putting the name into google images, certainly not safe for your work computer !
		
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Some of the pics on there do point out just how much respect she has for the game though!


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## BTatHome (Sep 12, 2012)

Are they actually a member of Sale Golf club? Lots of recorded rounds there but none to show they're a member anywhere .... Particularly as their handicap has always been the same.


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## louise_a (Sep 12, 2012)

In her blog she posted first mixed frolic of the year so I assume from that she is a member.


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## louise_a (Sep 12, 2012)

she has posted her congratualions letter from the organsers


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## palindromicbob (Sep 12, 2012)

I play of 22. Trying my best to play well enough to get it down as I know I have a mid teens game somewhere in me. Best I've returned over 18 with a card has been 36 points. For some reason I really choke on comp days. I have managed a 44 during a bounce game.


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## Luulox (Sep 12, 2012)

A lot of those scores would not be achievable on the tiger wood 13 game! Unless that is where they played their round


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## GB72 (Sep 12, 2012)

This really is disgraceful, I have been following this on Twitter this morning. The comments from the organisers are a joke and really no recompense to the honest golfers who may be missing out. There really needs to be some media investigation into this (and you may as well add the accusations of banditry in other national golf competitions as well) as this is an embarrassment to the legend whose name is on the competition. If I were the Seve Foundation (or one of the big name golf companies who have shown support for this) I would be asking for my name to be removed from the competition unless it is sorted. 

This may sound a bit extreme but, if you look at it from a strict legal sense, if any score entered is shown to be false (and that is very hard given the lack lustre rules) then the person submitting it and the person signing the card are involved in an attempt to defraud. From then on it stops being a simple case of banditry and becomes a criminal matter.


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

BTatHome said:



			Are they actually a member of Sale Golf club? Lots of recorded rounds there but none to show they're a member anywhere .... Particularly as their handicap has always been the same.
		
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I am advised by a normally reliable source that a S Varma (there may be more than one with that name) appears on CDH as a member of Sale golf club with an active handicap of 27.8


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## CMAC (Sep 12, 2012)

surely it couldnt be she has put down her nett score in the box marked stableford points?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 12, 2012)

I have to admit to knocking in round in 2-over gross off 13 - nett 59.  Was a qualifying medal for what was the Golf World Club Golfer of the Year comp (I'm guessing for 1985 or '86).  Best 60 nett scores across all UK clubs entering got you into the final and my 59 got me in (held at Tewkesbury Park G&CC).  Worst nett was 60.  But my nett 59 was probably* only *47 points!! 62!

Also pretty sure one of my Sat morning roll-up group recently shot 52 pts off a high teens handicap.  Was off yellow tees not comp tees though and that makes a BIG difference around our place.


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## Scott1505 (Sep 12, 2012)

She has her own website with some interesting photos along with a letter posted on it of from the seve organising committee congratulating her.

If you look at her previous scores she has broken 80 on more than one occasion.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

Scott1505 said:



			She has her own website with some interesting photos along with a letter posted on it of from the seve organising committee congratulating her.

If you look at her previous scores she has broken 80 on more than one occasion.
		
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Which means in all reality she shouldnt have that handicap ..


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## need_my_wedge (Sep 12, 2012)

Scott1505 said:



			She has her own website with some interesting photos along with a letter posted on it of from the seve organising committee congratulating her.

If you look at her previous scores she has broken 80 on more than one occasion.
		
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where's the link then? didn't show up in a google


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

need_my_wedge said:



			where's the link then? didn't show up in a google
		
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google "shanu varma" Don't do it on a work computer!


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## bjmass (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi guys, 

My first post on your forum, i was led to it by twitter when reading about the serious outrage caused by the seve day leader board.

Great to see so many people as disgusted i am about it, i had a score of 41 points in and played out my skin to get that!! i honestly thought i had a good chance of making it but to go on and see some of the scores posted made me sick quite frankly. To have the great mans name put next to this shambles is a real shame!! Im sure he will be turning in his grave.


I made a point of making sure my scorecard was put in off a club medal and verified with the club, marker and posted on howdidido, i think this should be made compulsery for next time or it'll be the same shambles again.


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## Colin L (Sep 12, 2012)

I was out in the garden contemplating the mysteries of life and the universe, as one does when gardening, when it occurred to me that to score 62 points, I would need 8 net eagles and 10 net birdies.  Not a bad day at the office that would be.


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## MikeB (Sep 12, 2012)

I just suggested via email the SeveDay organisers that they publish names & home clubs of the finalists, not sure if it'll happen though.


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## Foxholer (Sep 12, 2012)

BTatHome said:



			Pretty light on her feet too, shot a 79 is a little over 2 hours.
		
Click to expand...

And with a dodgy knee too! Apparently needs a replacement for the one doctors 'created' for her, at a cost of $100k, 25 years ago.


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

Colin L said:



			I was out in the garden contemplating the mysteries of life and the universe, as one does when gardening, when it occurred to me that to score 62 points, I would need 8 net eagles and 10 net birdies.  Not a bad day at the office that would be. 

Click to expand...

I'd need to be 21 under par gross to match it!


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## Colin L (Sep 12, 2012)

Yes, there are various ways of working out what is needed for such a preposterous score. Of course, when I said _I _would need 8 net eagles and 10 net birdies, I really meant _anyone_ would need that sort of return.  But let's be realistic, she couldn't possibly have been that consistent.  I expect she had two or three poorer holes, just lost concentration for a moment,  hit a wee bit of bad luck with a bounce off a sprinkler head with a wedge shot that was heading for the pin, that sort of thing.  So a couple of net bogeys and a blob had to be endured.  Just as well she made up for it with these 15 net eagles, then. :whoo:


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## duncan mackie (Sep 12, 2012)

Colin L said:



			Yes, there are various ways of working out what is needed for such a preposterous score. Of course, when I said _I _would need 8 net eagles and 10 net birdies, I really meant _anyone_ would need that sort of return.  But let's be realistic, she couldn't possibly have been that consistent.  I expect she had two or three poorer holes, just lost concentration for a moment,  hit a wee bit of bad luck with a bounce off a sprinkler head with a wedge shot that was heading for the pin, that sort of thing.  So a couple of net bogeys and a blob had to be endured.  Just as well she made up for it with these 15 net eagles, then. :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

why do so many postulate about this golfer round when the wonders of the information age provide the answer in all it's glory???

http://clubsg.skygolf.com/golfers/score.php?pre=1343406950&u=555305

read it and weep - but at least there is now a basis for discussion!

Sherlock....


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## Colin L (Sep 12, 2012)

Great, Duncan.  Now we can see in detail how it is just the sort of round you expect routinely from a 28 handicapper.


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## walshawwhippet (Sep 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			why do so many postulate about this golfer round when the wonders of the information age provide the answer in all it's glory???

http://clubsg.skygolf.com/golfers/score.php?pre=1343406950&u=555305

read it and weep - but at least there is now a basis for discussion!

Sherlock....
		
Click to expand...

Amandas post 25. Same link. 
Sos Dunc:


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## Ethan (Sep 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			why do so many postulate about this golfer round when the wonders of the information age provide the answer in all it's glory???

http://clubsg.skygolf.com/golfers/score.php?pre=1343406950&u=555305

read it and weep - but at least there is now a basis for discussion!

Sherlock....
		
Click to expand...

28 handicapper, 3 gross birdies and no double bogeys?

That is unbelievable, and I mean literally unbelievable.


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## walshawwhippet (Sep 12, 2012)

In your defence though it was a while ago :thup: :thup:


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## North Mimms (Sep 12, 2012)

I assume that since this comp is not using CONGU handicaps, that they can freely amend all Entrants hcps for the final, using the score from their qualifying round. 
So all these 28 hcp players get cut to 18 or 20, they should still easily score in the 40s in the final with their ability to birdie 3 holes a round


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			why do so many postulate about this golfer round when the wonders of the information age provide the answer in all it's glory???

http://clubsg.skygolf.com/golfers/score.php?pre=1343406950&u=555305

read it and weep - but at least there is now a basis for discussion!

Sherlock....
		
Click to expand...

Also has a record Putts taken for 10 of the last 9 holes ... now discuss that ha ha


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## duncan mackie (Sep 12, 2012)

walshawwhippet said:



			Amandas post 25. Same link. 
Sos Dunc:

Click to expand...

c'est la vie - looking at the recent posts I had (wrongly) assumed the data was missing so set out trolling through all the individual's skycaddie returns over the period!  Silly me, and boy does she play a lot of golf!


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## duncan mackie (Sep 12, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Also has a record Putts taken for 10 of the last 9 holes ... now discuss that ha ha
		
Click to expand...

that would be the V-easy she uses..........


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			that would be the V-easy she uses.......... 

Click to expand...

look at the equipment .. she doesnt have irons or a putter , great stats for putting without a putter ..


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2012)

I dont understand how after all the scores under her h'cap and shes still off 28 ?


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## dufferman (Sep 12, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I dont understand how after all the scores under her h'cap and shes still off 28 ?
		
Click to expand...

Because she's a  disgrace to Golf and should be hung drawn and quartered?


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

bobmac said:



			I dont understand how after all the scores under her h'cap and shes still off 28 ?
		
Click to expand...

Scores aren't in comps


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

Have a look at the 2 comps before & 2 after  the great score on the 22/7 tho

15/7   best was 4 pars 

20/7 best was 2 pars  

27/7 0 pars & 4 doubles in 9 holes 

29/7 best was 1 par

The comp orginasiers should demand an explination for that .. IM DISGUSTED, and i didnt even compete


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 12, 2012)

Had a look at her website - LOL - so she say's she's 44 - well that's clearly something other than her age.  Bringing game into disrepute.  Kick her out of the comp.  Organisers of SeveDay being made to look like a$$e$


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## GreiginFife (Sep 12, 2012)

cookelad said:



			Scores aren't in comps
		
Click to expand...

And here we have the definition of a bandit. Artificially high HC.

I'm with Dufferman, Oh Yeah!


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## User 105 (Sep 12, 2012)

Explain to me hole 13.

304 yard par 4. Hits her teeshot 156 yards (which in my reckoning doesn't make the green) and 3 putts for a par.

Did she count her first putt as the one 148 yards away, that's further than most of her drives !!


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## Ethan (Sep 12, 2012)

This is a disgrace, and a hideous slur on Seve's name. He must be turning in his grave, and the organisers should be ashamed of themselves for exploiting his name to make money for themselves. Their statement makes it clear that they do not give a toss about the veracity of scores and handicaps, and they could basically care less. 

Now, 28 handicappers will have wildly variable scores, one good, the next terrible, but 62 points is so far out of the range of possible scores that it demands the accusation of being untruthful and false. I simply don't believe it is possible using normal mathematics as I was taught them. 

GM should cover this, and I hope they apply a suitably questioning tone when doing so.

I didn't enter this event and don't know anybody who did, but it still makes me angry to see what is clearly cheating on such a gross scale.


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			And here we have the definition of a bandit. Artificially high HC.

I'm with Dufferman, Oh Yeah!
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely!

It's either an artificially high handicap or its entering fake scores! (or both)


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2012)

cookelad said:



			Scores aren't in comps
		
Click to expand...

3 were in tournaments 66, 68 and 48 net.
Thats got to be worth a shot or 2 with SSS 72


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

Do we really believe anything from her on her blog/twitter/website?


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## cookelad (Sep 12, 2012)

bobmac said:



			3 were in tournaments 66, 68 and 48 net.
Thats got to be worth a shot or 2 with SSS 72
		
Click to expand...

Not according to the Sale website they weren't - I know which I'd believe!


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## GreiginFife (Sep 12, 2012)

rosecott said:



			Do we really believe anything from her on her blog/twitter/website?
		
Click to expand...

Close to my thoughts. Anything for attention springs to mind. And boy does it work, her website traffic will certainly be up!


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2012)

cookelad said:



			Not according to the Sale website they weren't - I know which I'd believe!
		
Click to expand...

Does it matter?

Lets not forget the others who had 49, 50, and 55 pts


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## Neddy (Sep 12, 2012)

Obviously farcical....

I do however see the organisers problem. 

They want to make it open to everyone because if they make it club golfers only they are basically telling thousands of people (like me) that they can't participate.

It's wrong to suggest ( as a few posters have) that all/most without an official handicap would cheat if they entered something like this. I considered it but decided not to. Had I done so I'd have scored myself honestly and played off an accurate handicap, as I do everytime I play. I am sure 95% of participants did this.

They also have to offer some incentive other than giving to charity because if they don't lots of people sadly won't enter.

It's the 95% of people who entered this, gave to a very worthy cause and played honestly i feel sorry for. The people who did cheat, and their partners in crime, should obviously be ashamed of themselves. Amazes me that people have the sheer brass neck to do stuff like this.

It might be that the organisers have to end up limiting this to club golfers only and accepting they will raise a little bit less cash. But they will have a competition which isn't a complete joke....


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## patricks148 (Sep 12, 2012)

are you sure these are not 36 hole stableford scores at a tough course? 

it is a shocker though.

I scored 47 points in our roll up spring meet, gross 69  (par 72) playing off 9, and i got bandit jokes for months, heaven knows what my lot would make of these scores.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 12, 2012)

Westy said:



			Explain to me hole 13.

304 yard par 4. Hits her teeshot 156 yards (which in my reckoning doesn't make the green) and 3 putts for a par.

Did she count her first putt as the one 148 yards away, that's further than most of her drives !!
		
Click to expand...

I think you shouldn't pay much heed to the skycaddie stats - they can easily go a bit awry. 

She seems to have had a few scores around 90.... maybe her handicap should be more like 18 than 28. I can just about (at a stretch) believe an 18 handicapper having an amazing day and shooting 76, but not a 28 handicapper. Either way - either the score has been concocted or her handicap kept artificially high; pretty embarrassing for all concerned I'd think.


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## mchivers (Sep 12, 2012)

dq'd by the looks of it on the site


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## duncan mackie (Sep 12, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Does it matter?

Lets not forget the others who had 49, 50, and 55 pts
		
Click to expand...

Bob, the way this is set up as stableford points without regard for the relationship between par and SSS it's entirely possible for 'best ever' rounds or even 'carefully constructed' rounds, to deliver up to 50 points IMO (think about the results in large number events like the Ford over the years where -8 to -10 in club Q events were the bar with 100,000 entrant events).

I say carefully constructed as I know many courses with par about 5 shots higher than SSS of the front tees and that is where I would head!!!  I would then play it every day, maybe twice somedays, and 45 isn't going to be that tough to achieve (I had that on the one occasion I played our baby course in a q comp last year)

55 ........um - not impossible within the handicapping system and statistical environment of 30,000 competitors

62............... no comment


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## duncan mackie (Sep 12, 2012)

mchivers said:



			dq'd by the looks of it on the site
		
Click to expand...

 Following an internal inquiry and verification that an incorrect  scorecard had been submitted, leaderboard now updated  ...


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 12, 2012)

Too late, the damage has been done.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 12, 2012)

Soooo... what about that 55...???? :rofl:


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## North Mimms (Sep 12, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			Following an internal inquiry and verification that an incorrect  scorecard had been submitted, leaderboard now updated  ...
		
Click to expand...

I suggest the lady takes up tennis. 
We haven't had a female Grand Slam winner for 35 years...


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## Rory130911 (Sep 12, 2012)

It would seem that they have acted on some of this information:

[TABLE="class: table table-striped"]
[TR]
Name 							Score 						[/TR]
 					 					 						[TR]
 							[TD]S Varma[/TD]
 							[TD]DQ[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]T Caplehorn[/TD]
 							[TD]55[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]B Prewett[/TD]
 							[TD]50[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]P Calver[/TD]
 							[TD]49[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Just these other 3 to deal with I would think?


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## GB72 (Sep 12, 2012)

I am quite disappointed about how quiet the golfing media have been on this today. It was all over Twitter this morning but not one comment or question from most. Golfshake ran with it a bit this morning but stopped as soon as the official explanation (for what use that was) came out. As far as the organisers were concerned this morning, they had investigated the matter fully and the 62 score was to stand. 

There have been enough stories about banditry in other big name, national competitions but the scores involved had enough of a ring of truth about them to make further investigation a legal minefield. Now we have the most outrageous score claimed in a national competition held in the name of a golfing legend. Even now it warrants some coverage. The score has now been DQd but only a few hours ago they were going to let it stand. The organisers at least should be asked to reveal details of why they DQd the card and full details should be passed on to the person's club and, if there is any hint of cheating, to the police as a clear attempt to defraud the competition organisers and entrants.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 12, 2012)

I think the press would need to be very careful and it is already apparent there are lies and damned lies from the organisers through to the players and those marking their cards. Interesting to see Varma has been D/Q'd. Where was that taken from as she hasn't changed her blog page so would appear to be blissfully unaware of the latest twist. I wonder if the others will get kicked out as well. Is there an official explanation anywhere


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## Colin L (Sep 12, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting to see Varma has been D/Q'd. Where was that taken from .......
		
Click to expand...

http://www.seveday.com/leaderboard


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## bladeplayer (Sep 12, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			. Interesting to see Varma has been D/Q'd. Where was that taken from as she hasn't changed her blog page so would appear to be blissfully unaware of the latest twist. I wonder if the others will get kicked out as well. Is there an official explanation anywhere
		
Click to expand...

her DQ is listed on the updated leaderboard  Martin, use link in OP .. so now they realy have opened a can of worms for themselves tho , so what happens now if they recieve a flood of complaints re the others.. they have made a farce of it



EDIT or just use colins link below ha ..


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## zlinuk (Sep 12, 2012)

A few of the other scores on the leader board are now showing as "Pending" so perhaps a little more effort is going into the verification.


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## OldMate (Sep 12, 2012)

After looking at her blog (as said above, not safe for work), it's tempting to think  that the whole thing is a piss take. Her site and the pictures are a joke, but after googling her she does seem to be serious.  The sad part is she has so little understanding of golf to have tried to deceive the organisers this outrageously.  Given the very relaxed criteria, any one of us would have known that we could easily had submitted a card with around 45-48 points and been able to pull the wool over enough people's eyes. A shame that people like this have to come along and ruin what was a well intended, but poorly structured, charity event.  I hope that the organisers are looking seriously at booting the next scores of 55 down to perhaps 49 as well.  The 55 at least is really is no less laughable.


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## User20205 (Sep 12, 2012)

OldMate said:



			After looking at her blog (as said above, not safe for work),
		
Click to expand...

I have just checked her site out also, just in the interests of being fully informed 

Quite frankly I am disgusted, her 62 points is a crime against golf, the picture of her in her pants is a crime against humanity 


I'm never going to rid myself of that image, it's burned onto my retina's


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## OldMate (Sep 12, 2012)

therod said:



			the picture of her in her pants is a crime against humanity 


I'm never going to rid myself of that image, it's burned onto my retina's

Click to expand...

Haha, likewise.   As I said above it's either all a big joke, or more likely she is one deluded "woman".


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## bladeplayer (Sep 13, 2012)

Some correspondance on her page ,,,, 

*following dozens of phone calls, sms, linkedin messages and facebook comments about â€œwhy have I been disqualified from the Seve Day golf final?â€ â€“ it is because:*
â€œ_Dear Shanu,_
_Thank you for your email regarding your score of 62 Stableford points. As you know there has been some concern about the score you submitted for a number of weeks but your explanation would appear to resolve the matter. _
_It is with regret, however, that we have come to the conclusion to disqualify you from the competition on the grounds that you submitted an incorrect score as well as playing the event in the wrong format, which was clearly a singles competition._
_The deadline for submitting scores has now passed so I am afraid you would be unable to re-enter the competition. _
_I am extremely sorry but we feel we have no other option. We have gone to great lengths over the previous weeks to unravel how it was someone could record 62 Stableford points. I have emailed your playing partner, spoken to both you and Sale Golf Club on a number of occasions and it is only now that the mistake has come to light. I appreciate that it was an entirely honest mistake but this is a charity competition and we must therefore be seen to operate with complete transparency, in the best interest of the sport and in the memory of Seveâ€™s ongoing legacy._
_ Thank you very much for your support._
_ Regards,_
_ The Seve Day Team.â€_
*Yesterday I received an email from the competition organiser, I had queried the card as it said 62 points, and sent Seve Day an email:*
_â€œIt is quite embarrassing the __competitions organiser  has just rung to clarify that the card that __was submitted was in fact for 2 players, the format of the competition was_
_  â€stableford choose partners.â€_
_ They had worked out my score as being 44 points and my playing partner_ _scoring 18 points, thus resulting in a total combined stableford score of __62 points._
_ Do you wish me to submit a corrected score card?_
_ Shanuâ€_
*Having received the disqualification email I sent a further email to them:*
_â€œHi Rupert_
_Sorry sent from my phone and accidentally pressed send before could finish it._
_Thankyou for your email â€“ in the email (below) you have put that I was disqualified due toâ€œplaying the event in the wrong formatâ€ but there is a message on the site which says that you opened up the competition to scores â€œsubmitted from any roundâ€- so I donâ€™t understand how this can be used in order to disqualify me._
_I would like you to reconsider in the light of the following:_
_ 1) was an honest mistake _
_ 2) my club has confirmed of the 62 points I scored 44_
_ 3) you have a number of players who are playing off 44 so I would be happy to play off a score of 44 as well_
_I feel that this solution would maintain the integrity of the competition_
_Shanu_
_Sent from my BlackBerryÂ® wireless deviceâ€_


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## Ethan (Sep 13, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Some correspondance on her page ,,,, 

*following dozens of phone calls, sms, linkedin messages and facebook comments about â€œwhy have I been disqualified from the Seve Day golf final?â€ â€“ it is because:*
â€œ_Dear Shanu,_
_Thank you for your email regarding your score of 62 Stableford points. As you know there has been some concern about the score you submitted for a number of weeks but your explanation would appear to resolve the matter. _
_It is with regret, however, that we have come to the conclusion to disqualify you from the competition on the grounds that you submitted an incorrect score as well as playing the event in the wrong format, which was clearly a singles competition._
_The deadline for submitting scores has now passed so I am afraid you would be unable to re-enter the competition. _
_I am extremely sorry but we feel we have no other option. We have gone to great lengths over the previous weeks to unravel how it was someone could record 62 Stableford points. I have emailed your playing partner, spoken to both you and Sale Golf Club on a number of occasions and it is only now that the mistake has come to light. I appreciate that it was an entirely honest mistake but this is a charity competition and we must therefore be seen to operate with complete transparency, in the best interest of the sport and in the memory of Seveâ€™s ongoing legacy._
_ Thank you very much for your support._
_ Regards,_
_ The Seve Day Team.â€_
*Yesterday I received an email from the competition organiser, I had queried the card as it said 62 points, and sent Seve Day an email:*
_â€œIt is quite embarrassing the __competitions organiser  has just rung to clarify that the card that __was submitted was in fact for 2 players, the format of the competition was_
_  â€stableford choose partners.â€_
_ They had worked out my score as being 44 points and my playing partner_ _scoring 18 points, thus resulting in a total combined stableford score of __62 points._
_ Do you wish me to submit a corrected score card?_
_ Shanuâ€_
*Having received the disqualification email I sent a further email to them:*
_â€œHi Rupert_
_Sorry sent from my phone and accidentally pressed send before could finish it._
_Thankyou for your email â€“ in the email (below) you have put that I was disqualified due toâ€œplaying the event in the wrong formatâ€ but there is a message on the site which says that you opened up the competition to scores â€œsubmitted from any roundâ€- so I donâ€™t understand how this can be used in order to disqualify me._
_I would like you to reconsider in the light of the following:_
_ 1) was an honest mistake _
_ 2) my club has confirmed of the 62 points I scored 44_
_ 3) you have a number of players who are playing off 44 so I would be happy to play off a score of 44 as well_
_I feel that this solution would maintain the integrity of the competition_
_Shanu_
_Sent from my BlackBerryÂ® wireless deviceâ€_

Click to expand...

Sounds like a load of Titleists to me.

Even if the story of 2 players is true (ducks while a squadron of pigs flies past), the card is invalid because it was completed incorrectly. The Seve Day organisers said previously they had checked the score with the playing partners. Either they did so incorrectly or this was a porky. I wonder which?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 13, 2012)

Rory130911 said:



			It would seem that they have acted on some of this information:

[TABLE="class: table table-striped"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]S Varma[/TD]
[TD]DQ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]T Caplehorn[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B Prewett[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P Calver[/TD]
[TD]49[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Just these other 3 to deal with I would think?
		
Click to expand...

These I can handle - as mentioned - a buddy had 52 points (may even have been 54 points) in a roll-up a few weeks back. Off 24 and round in 6 over?  He's pretty new to the game but was an excellent cricketer - his handicap will tumble - but he didn't half get a lot of ribbing from the rest of us.  Also we played our roll-up off Yellow tees and these are a lot easier than the competition tees.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			These I can handle - as mentioned - a buddy had 52 points (may even have been 54 points) in a roll-up a few weeks back. Off 24 and round in 6 over?  He's pretty new to the game but was an excellent cricketer - his handicap will tumble - but he didn't half get a lot of ribbing from the rest of us.  Also we played our roll-up off Yellow tees and these are a lot easier than the competition tees.
		
Click to expand...

Off 24 I could possibly imagine SLH, but earlier in the thread it was mentioned the 55 was from a teenager playing off low teens, possibly single fig... So that would have to be one _hell_&#8203; of a round he put together.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 13, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Off 24 I could possibly imagine SLH, but earlier in the thread it was mentioned the 55 was from a teenager playing off low teens, possibly single fig... So that would have to be one _hell_&#8203; of a round he put together.
		
Click to expand...

true, true...


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## dufferman (Sep 13, 2012)

Thank god she's been DQ'd, people like that don't deserve to compete in Seve's name. The only problem now is how many others do you question? Before you know it the entire top 10 are DQ'd for one reason or another!!


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## Fader (Sep 13, 2012)

What the hell are they playing off handicaps of 100.

62 Points, is banditry of thehighest order. I mean 41 points in last place something seriously wrong there. If I had 41 points i'd at least be expecting a podium finish not the sodding wooden spoon.


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## Birchy (Sep 13, 2012)

She should get disqualified just for her website.


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## louise_a (Sep 13, 2012)

There is a tweet from T Caplehorns dad saying he practices 6-7 times a day during the school holidays and has shot a 63 gross. As I mentioned before his dad is a PGA coach.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2012)

louise_a said:



			There is a tweet from T Caplehorns dad saying he practices 6-7 times a day during the school holidays and has shot a 63 gross. As I mentioned before his dad is a PGA coach.
		
Click to expand...

So are we saying here that his handicap is not a true reflection of his ability...? If so, then I fear this is the definition of banditry.


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## louise_a (Sep 13, 2012)

from his dad's tweets, he was off 12 now off 6 and was captain of Hampshire under13s last week


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2012)

louise_a said:



			from his dad's tweets, he was off 12 now off 6 and was captain of Hampshire under13s last week
		
Click to expand...

Even off 6... a 63 _gross_. I play regularly with Pro that would be delighted to shoot such a score. I, personally, still think it's stinks of suspicious scoring.


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## Fader (Sep 13, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Even off 6... a 63 _gross_. I play regularly with Pro that would be delighted to shoot such a score. I, personally, still think it's stinks of suspicious scoring.
		
Click to expand...

Stinks of a seriously doctored handicap or someones got a very good magic pencil/


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## GreiginFife (Sep 13, 2012)

Fader said:



			Stinks of a seriously doctored handicap or someones got a very good magic pencil/
		
Click to expand...

Little from column A, little from column B???


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## MashieNiblick (Sep 13, 2012)

Fader said:



			What the hell are they playing off handicaps of 100.

62 Points, is banditry of thehighest order. I mean 41 points in last place something seriously wrong there. If I had 41 points i'd at least be expecting a podium finish not the sodding wooden spoon.
		
Click to expand...

They are just the scores submitted to qualify for the final. As I understand it the format allowed people to submit a score from any round in July or August. So far as I can see it didn't even have to be in an official comp or nominated in advance. Scores verified by playing partners. Might have been a bounce game off the yellows with SSS 65. Top 72 scores qualify for the final at the Belfry. Entry was Â£25.

I'm surprised 41 made the final.

Getting to final is pretty good initself

"All finalists will be invited to a welcome breakfast before taking to  the course, and at the end of the day a gala dinner will be held to  announce the winner of Seve Day 2012. Overnight accommodation at The  Belfry is also included for all finalists in what promises to be a  fantastic event to honour Seve Ballesteros and his legacy."

If you made it the top Prize on the day is pretty tasty



               Return flights from the UK to Atlanta with transfers to Augusta
                   3 nights B&B accommodation at the Sheraton Augusta with complimentary transfers to Augusta National
                   2 rounds of golf at championship courses
                   Official US Masters souvenir
               US Masters badge for Saturday and Sunday
               US Masters chair for prime viewing location
               New full set of custom made top of the range John Letters golf clubs
               New pair of FootJoy golf shoes
               Golf Travel bag
               Your Golf Travel t-shirts
               Sunderland jacket
As I said earlier in the tread I thought the R&A prize limit for Amatuer golfers was Â£500 retail value.


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## Hobbit (Sep 13, 2012)

louise_a said:



			There is a tweet from T Caplehorns dad saying he practices 6-7 times a day during the school holidays and has shot a 63 gross. As I mentioned before his dad is a PGA coach.
		
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If the lad plays every qualifier he can, and/or is taking advantage of putting in supplementary cards he's not a bandit. As a Junior Organiser I've seen juniors scoring like this every summer, and I had midweek qualifiers for them as well as midweek medals with seniors marking the card and weekend comps/leagues. Youngsters develop very quickly in terms of skill and strength, and handicapping them, even with liberal use of Rule23, is difficult.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 13, 2012)

MashieNiblick said:



			They are just the scores submitted to qualify for the final. As I understand it the format allowed people to submit a score from any round in July or August. So far as I can see it didn't even have to be in an official comp or nominated in advance. Scores verified by playing partners. Might have been a bounce game off the yellows with SSS 65. Top 72 scores qualify for the final at the Belfry. Entry was Â£25.

.
		
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Thing is tho mashie the organisers said origionaly that they had checked& veryfied the score with her marker... so if they had done that & posted the result .. why have they changed & DQ'd her .. correctly so might id add but they are making a bad bad situation worse with everything they do


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## cookelad (Sep 13, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Thing is tho mashie the organisers said origionaly that they had checked& veryfied the score with her marker... so if they had done that & posted the result .. why have they changed & DQ'd her .. correctly so might id add but they are making a bad bad situation worse with everything they do
		
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It does seem to be blunder after blunder!


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## MashieNiblick (Sep 13, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Thing is tho mashie the organisers said origionaly that they had checked& veryfied the score with her marker... so if they had done that & posted the result .. why have they changed & DQ'd her .. correctly so might id add but they are making a bad bad situation worse with everything they do
		
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I can see my post might have been a bit unclear. I wasn't referring to any particular score, just saying that the way the comp was set up, so that anyone could submit the best score they made, even in a friendly game, on any course, in any context, over a period of 2 months, I was surprised 41 even made the final.


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## GB72 (Sep 13, 2012)

cookelad said:



			It does seem to be blunder after blunder!
		
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This is what made me laugh, they announce in the morning that all scores have been checked and verified and were all above board but there thorough investigations did not reveal that this person has apparently put down a 2 ball combined score (still not sure how that one was worked out as the full score for her is clearly on one card on Skycaddie). Basically they appear to have concocted a story that allows a DQ without anyone actually being accused of cheating. Then this woman has the cheek to claim that 44 of those points were hers (just enough to ensure qualification) and asks to be put in the final again. 

As for the 55 points, shooting 19 under your handicap is a bit hard to take, though I suppose not totally impossible. Still would warrant further investigation as there are plus figure golfers at my club who would walk off with that gross score and think that they had had the round of their life. Call me suspicious but the tweets from the father sound like an attempt to get a defence in first as it is clear that all of the attention is now going to focus on that score. 

I really think the organisers need to be apologising for arranging this shambles under the name of a legend.


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## cookelad (Sep 13, 2012)

GB72 said:



			As for the 55 points, shooting 19 under your handicap is a bit hard to take, though I suppose not totally impossible. Still would warrant further investigation as there are plus figure golfers at my club who would walk off with that gross score and think that they had had the round of their life. Call me suspicious but the tweets from the father sound like an attempt to get a defence in first as it is clear that all of the attention is now going to focus on that score.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah he knew what's coming. I could stretch to believing a 50 (having been guilty of a 48 myself!) 

Even as a betterball score 62 is astonishing! I've seen a few betterballs in the 50s on winter league days - shortened course, holes as big as buckets etc.


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## Kellfire (Sep 13, 2012)

41 made the final? Ahh ffs, that 42 points I won with earlier this year would've got me there.


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## rosecott (Sep 13, 2012)

cookelad said:



			Yeah he knew what's coming. I could stretch to believing a 50 (having been guilty of a 48 myself!) 

Even as a betterball score 62 is astonishing! I've seen a few betterballs in the 50s on winter league days - shortened course, holes as big as buckets etc.
		
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It sounds like the pair's aggregate score, not a better ball.


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## CMAC (Sep 13, 2012)

rosecott said:



			It sounds like the pair's aggregate score, not a better ball.
		
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see here http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...e-They-Bandits&p=654504&viewfull=1#post654504


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't think they'll touch the other three scores over 50 or any remaining shred of integrity will be lost. I think this lady will disappear into the ether very quickly once she realises there isn't a proper golfer who believes anything she has said in connectionto her round


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2012)

I don't know what everyone's problem is, I think she's fit.

I'll bring the tickly feather, the whisk and the gimp mask (said in an Allo' Allo' type accent).


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## ScienceBoy (Sep 14, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I don't know what everyone's problem is, I think she's fit.

I'll bring the tickly feather, the whisk and the gimp mask (said in an Allo' Allo' type accent).
		
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I vote we should start a new photo trend similar to planking and owling but done on the golf tee or golf cart.

Call it "doing a Shanu" or "doing a Varma"

I vote first honours should go to bobmac, smiffy and imurg.

Post those pics up soon guys


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 14, 2012)

ScienceBoy said:



			I vote we should start a new photo trend similar to planking and owling but done on the golf tee or golf cart.

Call it "doing a Shanu" or "doing a Varma"

I vote first honours should go to bobmac, smiffy and imurg.

Post those pics up soon guys 

Click to expand...

Me and StuC will win the best cleavage shots.


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## cack_handed (Sep 14, 2012)

How the heck can she score 17 under on a round when she only hit one fairway off the tee


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## palindromicbob (Sep 14, 2012)

ScienceBoy said:



			I vote we should start a new photo trend similar to planking and owling but done on the golf tee or golf cart.

Call it "doing a Shanu" or "doing a Varma"

I vote first honours should go to bobmac, smiffy and imurg.

Post those pics up soon guys 

Click to expand...

Do they have to be naked and hugging a teddy bear.


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## Smiffy (Sep 15, 2012)

cack_handed said:



			How the heck can she score 17 under on a round when she only hit one fairway off the tee
		
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JustOne has managed level par playing like that before. So if she was off 23, it's achievable.


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## Rory130911 (Sep 15, 2012)

Surely Caplehorn, Prewett & Calver must go. These scores are just not possible with an accurate handicap, even on your best Day?


[TABLE="class: table table-striped"]
[TR]
[TD]T Caplehorn
[/TD]
 							[TD]55[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]B Prewett
[/TD]
 							[TD]50[/TD]
 						[/TR]
 						[TR]
 							[TD]P Calver
[/TD]
 							[TD]49[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


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## rosecott (Sep 15, 2012)

Rory130911 said:



			Surely Caplehorn, Prewett & Calver must go. These scores are just not possible
		
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49 points is certainly possible. We have a player who started the year on 22, came down over a period of several months to 20, and in his 31st qualifier of the year, scored 49 points. His handicap record is there for all to see the genuineness of his handicap. Days when everything clicks do occur.


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## ScienceBoy (Sep 15, 2012)

palindromicbob said:



			Do they have to be naked and hugging a teddy bear.
		
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I was thinking more of the golf cart or the tee box ones but that sounds good too


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## Rory130911 (Sep 16, 2012)

I still cant see those over 46 as being possible. Escpecially like the 55 who is already a single figure player.

Shame on the players who posted the scores.

Shame on the Organisers for soiling Seve's name and letting these guys get away with it.


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## duncan mackie (Sep 16, 2012)

Rory130911 said:



			Shame on the players who posted the scores.

Shame on the Organisers for soiling Seve's name and letting these guys get away with it.
		
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shame on those posters who can't see how it can happen ..........

it's been explained already, in detail, and I have even established appropriate courses where I would head if I entered this event - It's pretty easy to pick up 5 points, possibly 6, against SSS.

statistically, with a large field such as entered this, you are going to see a fair number or -8 to -10 scores from people playing the round of their life - added to the above advantage and up to 50 is entirely reasonably.

as to the 55, are you sure that he was a single figure golfer when he did the round? I had thought the player was a junior who has been improving fast through the summer and was at a high'ish handicap for the submitted round. Again, such situations happen and handicaps follow capability changes rather than lead.  14 shot improvements in handicap over the summer school holidays is not again 'not unknown' and add in the selection of a good course as above and 55's not 'impossible' - amazing, but not impossible. Great to see such players improving in this way!


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## Birchy (Sep 16, 2012)

Ive witnessed 50 by a perfectly honest young golfer who was improving quite quickly. I could understand maybe 2 or 3 more than that points wise but 55 is getting close to silly territory imo. Anything more than 55 is just a complete and utter joke to the game of golf.


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## backwoodsman (Sep 16, 2012)

High 40's low 50's certainly possible. I once had 49 points. Was playing off 28 at the time and had the round of my life at Longniddry - Shot 83 against the 68 par. Have never matched it since. I even missed a couple of putts so it could have been a bit higher. 
The mid 50's scores a bit dubious - esp if off a low H/C - but are actually possible


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## North Mimms (Sep 17, 2012)

Judging by the scores posted on her twitter account, ms Varma has averaged less than 18 over par playing at Sale in the past 6 weeks. 
Explains why "she has scored in the forties" a few times as she put it, as her skycaddie score card gives her hcp as 28.
One round contained a hole in one which she surprisingly didnâ€™t tweet about.


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## North Mimms (Sep 17, 2012)

backwoodsman said:



			High 40's low 50's certainly possible. I once had 49 points. Was playing off 28 at the time and had the round of my life at Longniddry - Shot 83 against the 68 par. Have never matched it since. I even missed a couple of putts so it could have been a bit higher. 
The mid 50's scores a bit dubious - esp if off a low H/C - but are actually possible
		
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I scored 48 points in society day at my home club a few years ago. 
The important thing is that I gave card to hcp sec and got a cut.


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## Imurg (Sep 17, 2012)

Rory130911 said:



			Surely Caplehorn, Prewett & Calver must go. These scores are just not possible with an accurate handicap, even on your best Day?


[TABLE="class: table table-striped"]
[TR]
[TD]T Caplehorn[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B Prewett[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P Calver[/TD]
[TD]49[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
		
Click to expand...

Last year I shot a 4 under gross 66 for 49 points.
Playing off 9.

It does happen

55+ takes a bit of believing though....


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## milesthenutcracker (Sep 18, 2012)

New statement issued by the Seve Day team - including I think a reaction to this thread:

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2012/09/seve-day-scores-were-genuine/


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## bladeplayer (Sep 18, 2012)

milesthenutcracker said:



			New statement issued by the Seve Day team - including I think a reaction to this thread:

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2012/09/seve-day-scores-were-genuine/

Click to expand...


Cant access that mate , be intrested if it was anything to do with here ..


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## HawkeyeMS (Sep 18, 2012)

Only the 62 raised eyebrows?

If the scores were so genuine, how come they have revised handicaps - the handicaps have been verified by the clubs after all. I'm sorry, but despite that statement, I'm still not buying it


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## milesthenutcracker (Sep 18, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Cant access that mate , be intrested if it was anything to do with here ..
		
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it does mention this thread - are you on an old internet explorer version?


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## 6inchcup (Sep 18, 2012)

who's to say their playing partners were not in on the cheating scam and just wrote on the card any old numbers,seems this comp was doomed from the start and open to the low life cheats,i hate playing in away comps that have 4 balls made up of mates because inevitably one always seems to "had the game of my life!!!!!" as they scoop the top prize and the bigger the prize the bigger the cheating.


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## GB72 (Sep 18, 2012)

At least someone has had a look at it from a jounalistic point of view. Well done to DarthVega for flagging it up to a journalist on Twitter (Al Dunsmeir who is a good person to follow by the way)


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## North Mimms (Sep 18, 2012)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Only the 62 raised eyebrows?

If the scores were so genuine, how come they have revised handicaps - the handicaps have been verified by the clubs after all. I'm sorry, but despite that statement, I'm still not buying it
		
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Some - tho not all - will have had a hcp cut from club in the month or two since submitting their score. 
I would think that organisers should adjust others in line with CONGU guidelines. 
I wish I knew which website Sale publishes their hcp and comp results (not HDID) as the DQ person who "scored" 62 regularly plays to +18 yet says she is 28 hcp.


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## 6inchcup (Sep 18, 2012)

North Mymms said:



			Some - tho not all - will have had a hcp cut from club in the month or two since submitting their score. 
I would think that organisers should adjust others in line with CONGU guidelines. 
I wish I knew which website Sale publishes their hcp and comp results (not HDID) as the DQ person who "scored" 62 regularly plays to +18 yet says she is 28 hcp.
		
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it is on their own web site,i have txt'd a mate who played there and i am waiting for his reply to see if he had heard of this woman


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## bladeplayer (Sep 18, 2012)

milesthenutcracker said:



			it does mention this thread - are you on an old internet explorer version?
		
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I could be on anything mate , no idea ha .. in work , something is activating the fortiguard  , il have a look later at home .. 

very intrested now it mentions here ,  thanks


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## muttleee (Sep 18, 2012)

Here's the text of that article for anyone who's having trouble viewing it:

Organisers of a cancer charity golf tournament in honour of Seve  Ballesteros have stated that the current top 72 winning scores are all  genuine, after one competitor was disqualified and others have been  accused of being â€˜cheatsâ€™ and â€˜banditsâ€™. 

â€˜Seve Dayâ€™ involved golfers who had paid a Â£25 entry fee submitting  Stableford scores from any European course throughout July and August.  The top 72 were earlier this month invited to a star-studded final at  The Belfry this October in which prizes such as a trip to the US Masters  will be on offer. All money raised was for the Seve Ballesteros  Foundation for Cancer Research UK, and more than 1,000 people in July  alone paid the Â£25 fee.


 However, questions were raised in early September when the top three  scores included two in the 50s and one in the 60s, meaning that the  players had shot between 14 and 26 under their handicaps. The  SeveDay.com website and @SeveDay2012 Twitter account were bombarded with  questions and accusations, while a post on the _Golf Monthly_ forum, _SeveDay â€“ Are They Bandits?_ received over 7,000 views and nearly 200 replies.


 Comments included: â€˜Letâ€™s forget the word â€˜banditsâ€™ and say â€˜cheatsâ€™.  Those scores are a jokeâ€™ and â€˜The scores are an insult to Seveâ€™.


 Organisers responded to the outcry by issuing a statement on  September 12 which said â€˜that all scores have been officially verified  with the playing partners of those individuals as well as their golf  clubsâ€™.


 However, it then transpired that the winning score of 62 included 18  points that were scored by the golferâ€™s doublesâ€™ partner, and she has  now been disqualified. Despite the withdrawal, organisers are confident  that this was a one-off and that all other scores are genuine.


 â€œWe have many keen golfers in the office and, suffice to say, the  winning score of 62 raised more than a few eyebrows,â€ said Seve Day  organiser Gemma Brindley.


 â€œHowever, we were in a difficult position in that both the winnerâ€™s  playing partner confirmed her score whilst Sale Golf Club confirmed her  handicap. We contacted the winner on a number of occasions to raise  these concerns but she insisted her score was correct.


 â€œIt has since transpired that she in fact recorded 62 points in a  doubles competition of which only 44 were scored by her. We therefore  had no option but to disqualify her from the competition.


 â€œThe other unusually high scores have been thoroughly investigated,  both playing partners and clubs contacted to verify, and we  remain comfortable with our decision to allow these players to compete  in the final.


 â€œA number of competitors will be playing off revised handicaps for  the final at The Belfry, which should ensure a fair tournament.â€


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm not buying it for a second. Farce from the outset and the statement makes not a jot of difference. Good shouit on Al Dunsmeir on Twitter. He does some really good stuff


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## JustOne (Sep 19, 2012)

[B said:
			
		


			cack_handed[/B]]How the heck can she score 17 under on a round when she only hit one fairway off the tee
		
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Smiffy said:



			JustOne has managed level par playing like that before. So if she was off 23, it's achievable.
		
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LOLOLOLOL 


I've shot 4 under par off 6 h/cap for a mahooooosive 46pts!

I'd have had to be 13 under to get to 55pts... it's do-able 

Can't remember how many fairways I hit or how many GIR's if someone wants to work it out from the shot-by-shot account of the round feel free (it wasn't many of either 
http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...t-happy-Greedy&p=248466&viewfull=1#post248466



It does appear that T Caplehorn is officially the *biggest bandit/cheat in the UK* shooting 55pts off 13 h/cap..... is that 6 under par playing off 13??? and THEN gets his h/cap cut?? Oh come on!

I wonder if any junior EVER bettered that score for a 13yr old?


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## Smiffy (Sep 19, 2012)

muttleee said:



			â€œIt has since transpired that she in fact recorded 62 points in a  doubles competition of which only 44 were scored by her.
		
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I'd rather face her partner


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## MikeB (Sep 19, 2012)

Ok, so what's the highest stableford score any of us have personally been witness to (or personally scored) I played with a chap off 22 a few years ago who was rapidly improving, he scored 50 points, it was 100% genuine.


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## User 105 (Sep 19, 2012)

I've seen a few 47's and 48's at our place, but nothing better. I've had a 46 myself, but that was when I was rapidly improving. My handicap dropped from 23 to 13 that year.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 19, 2012)

muttleee said:



			Here's the text of that article for anyone who's having trouble viewing it:






 .


 Organisers responded to the outcry by issuing a statement on  September 12 which said â€˜that all scores have been officially verified  with the playing partners of those individuals as well as their golf  clubsâ€™.


 However, it then transpired that the winning score of 62 included 18  points that were scored by the golferâ€™s doublesâ€™ partner, and she has  now been disqualified. Despite the withdrawal, organisers are confident  that this was a one-off and that all other scores are genuine.


 â€œWe have many keen golfers in the office and, suffice to say, the  winning score of 62 raised more than a few eyebrows,â€ said Seve Day  organiser Gemma Brindley.


 â€œHowever, we were in a difficult position in that both the winnerâ€™s  playing partner confirmed her score whilst Sale Golf Club confirmed her  handicap. We contacted the winner on a number of occasions to raise  these concerns but she insisted her score was correct.


 â€œIt has since transpired that she in fact recorded 62 points in a  doubles competition of which only 44 were scored by her. We therefore  had no option but to disqualify her from the competition.


 â€œThe other unusually high scores have been thoroughly investigated,  both playing partners and clubs contacted to verify, and we  remain comfortable with our decision to allow these players to compete  in the final.


 â€œA number of competitors will be playing off revised handicaps for  the final at The Belfry, which should ensure a fair tournament.â€
		
Click to expand...

All the scores were veryfied with playing partners .. surely the ask the person who had the "MARKERS" signature , so that wouldnt be her playing partner it would be the opposition as such .. SURELY the conversation was something like "we are contacting you to confirm the score SV shot on what ever date it was" & the marker never mentioned no she didnt shoot that it was her & her partner that shot it .. 
Have you ever recieved a team/pairs ard without both names been on it ? the one submitted had one name & was calculated on one handicap , in a pairs comp ? come on please are they that stupid ? 
the card we looked at on the web site was entered as a single score on the sale web site .. 

Nievety at its very best .. or the other word


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## cookelad (Sep 19, 2012)

Westy said:



			I've seen a few 47's and 48's at our place, but nothing better. I've had a 46 myself, but that was when I was rapidly improving. My handicap dropped from 23 to 13 that year.
		
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I've seen a few betterballs in the 50's on temporary tees/greens and I've had a 48 playing off 12 a few years back (1st ever level par round) in a major board comp - needless to say a big cut and a lot of friendly pi$$ taking!


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## Rory130911 (Nov 3, 2012)

Anyone know what won on the day at the Belfry?

I have been told that there were a few pairs registering there wearing Identical club shirts/jumpers hmmm......

(they weren't just caddying either)


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## North Mimms (Nov 3, 2012)

Rory130911 said:



			Anyone know what won on the day at the Belfry?

I have been told that there were a few pairs registering there wearing Identical club shirts/jumpers hmmm......

(they weren't just caddying either)
		
Click to expand...

The leaderboard from final
http://uk.vpar.com/live/seve/r1/3

The winning score was 34 stableford points....


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## pokerjoke (Nov 3, 2012)

North Mimms said:



			The leaderboard from final
http://uk.vpar.com/live/seve/r1/3

The winning score was 34 stableford points....
		
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Looks like they sorted out the handicaps.
All the obvious bandits were finally found out.


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## njc1973 (Nov 5, 2012)

Seems strange that people would drop from 45-50 points in qualification to mid 20's in the final, a cynical person would think that the qualification scores had been massaged!


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## rikkitikk (Nov 5, 2012)

njc1973 said:



			Seems strange that people would drop from 45-50 points in qualification to mid 20's in the final, a cynical person would think that the qualification scores had been massaged!
		
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was just thinking the same thing as some people who before 3/4 handicap are playing off about 26 or 27 and managed 42 points to get to the final but only managed 10 points at the belfry


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## OldMate (Nov 5, 2012)

Ha the 12 handicapper who came last scored half of his points on one hole!


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## North Mimms (Nov 5, 2012)

rikkitikk said:



			was just thinking the same thing as some people who before 3/4 handicap are playing off about 26 or 27 and managed 42 points to get to the final but only managed 10 points at the belfry
		
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I wonder why they made the final 3/4 hcp?


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## Rory130911 (Nov 6, 2012)

Further SCANDAL on this mis-managed tournament, a friend of mine (tied 72nd on 41 points) turned up on the day and was told that although he qualified, he could not play even though they only had 70 of the 72 placed filled on the day and two groups were 3's instead of 4 balls - it was too much trouble to let him play.


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## bladeplayer (Nov 6, 2012)

Rory130911 said:



			Further SCANDAL on this mis-managed tournament, a friend of mine (tied 72nd on 41 points) turned up on the day and was told that although he qualified, he could not play even though they only had 70 of the 72 placed filled on the day and two groups were 3's instead of 4 balls - it was too much trouble to let him play.
		
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Strange one ? what was the reason given for this .. if id qualified & turned up on time as requested , id be causing uproar.. too much trouble how?


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 6, 2012)

Me too!! Did he turn up too late?


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## Essex_Stu (Nov 6, 2012)

MikeB said:



			Ok, so what's the highest stableford score any of us have personally been witness to (or personally scored) I played with a chap off 22 a few years ago who was rapidly improving, he scored 50 points, it was 100% genuine.
		
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Ive scored a genuine 50 points when I was off 26 back in July in a bounce game with no gimmes. I also shot 45 points in a comp the following week. The record at our place is 52 points I believe and that person has not shot anywhere near his handicap since.


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