# Standardised Cigarette Packaging



## Slab (Jan 22, 2015)

Lots of different reports in the media today, here's the BBC's  

Do we need this step to deter new smokers? Are fag packets currently 'glitzy' as claimed (just looked at the packet in my pocket and I wouldn't call it remotely glitzy) 

Need to remember that packets wont by visible at all in the shops prior to purchase anyway and I'm not sure smokers are brandishing the packet to their non smoking friends in the same way they do with their new phone

For me its unnecessary and any reduction in numbers will probably come from other efforts but get attributed to this


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## SHiiBBZ (Jan 22, 2015)

I'd like to say no, but at about 16 I bought a packet of Davidoff because the packet was cool.


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## GB72 (Jan 22, 2015)

As a now pretty much ex smoker, most of these anti smoking ideas are a waste of time. Pretty much everyone who smokes or thinks about smoking knows the risks, the danger and how horrible and nasty a habit it is but they do it anyway. Kids smoke due to peer pressure or because they think it is cool, simple. Packaging may influence initial brand choice but not the decision whether to take up the habit. All that this does is make the production costs cheaper.


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## Marty420 (Jan 22, 2015)

Waste of time. People will smoke because they want to. The amount of money the government make from tax on cigarettes funds things like the NHS. If people give up smoking, the money lost will have to be added to something else which will affect everyone, not just smokers.

Whats next? Plain beer cans and spirit bottles? Plain fast food packaging? Plain fat people?....the list is endless.


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## JCW (Jan 22, 2015)

Ban it all together , that be the best move , dirty habit that cost millions in health cost the there is the rubbish and smells it leaves behind not to mention the damage it cost by people who stubbed fags out on other peoples property , I will not miss the dirty habit , sooner the better , e fags to , banned them :thup:


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## bluewolf (Jan 22, 2015)

Marty420 said:



			Waste of time. People will smoke because they want to. The amount of money the government make from tax on cigarettes funds things like the NHS. If people give up smoking, the money lost will have to be added to something else which will affect everyone, not just smokers.

Whats next? Plain beer cans and spirit bottles? Plain fast food packaging? Plain fat people?....the list is endless.
		
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I take it that you do appreciate the circular nature of your argument? 

Anyway, the next problem with the Yoof will be those electronic ciggie things. I've seen quite a few <16 yr olds with those and no one bats an eyelid.. They aren't even doing the ciggie phase now.. Straight to the watermelon flavour E-Cigs..


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 22, 2015)

JCW said:



			Ban it all together , that be the best move , *dirty habit that cost millions in health cost* the there is the rubbish and smells it leaves behind not to mention the damage it cost by people who stubbed fags out on other peoples property , I will not miss the dirty habit , sooner the better , e fags to , banned them :thup: 

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Cost of NHS Â£100 billion pa
Cost of smoking related diseases Â£2 billion pa
Revenue raise from cigarettes Â£10 billion pa

So the smokers actually raise a Â£8 billion pa surplus, so your comment is about as accurate as the tosh you post on football.  

However on the latest figure booze only raises Â£2 billion pa yet the costs are estimated at Â£25 billion paâ€¦â€¦


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## bluewolf (Jan 22, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			Cost of NHS Â£100 billion pa
Cost of smoking related diseases Â£2 billion pa
Revenue raise from cigarettes Â£10 billion pa

So the smokers actually raise a Â£8 billion pa surplus, so your comment is about as accurate as the tosh you post on football.  

However on the latest figure booze only raises Â£2 billion pa yet the costs are estimated at Â£25 billion paâ€¦â€¦ 

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Sorry to go all "forum" on you, but do you have a link to the "Booze raises only Â£2 Billion.. Its a startling statistic if true


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## Blue in Munich (Jan 22, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Sorry to go all "forum" on you, but do you have a link to the "Booze raises only Â£2 Billion.. Its a startling statistic if true 

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You're absolutely right to; the article mentions sums in billions but I missed that they switched to percentages on the chart they produced  It is in fact 10 billion for booze as well, but still a deficit of 15 billion over the estimated costs.  The figures were from HMRC.  I'd picked up the initial smoking ones from a different site, but the HMRC figures confirms that as 10 billion raised.

Apologies for the faux pas.


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## bluewolf (Jan 22, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			You're absolutely right to; the article mentions sums in billions but I missed that they switched to percentages on the chart they produced  It is in fact 10 billion for booze as well, but still a deficit of 15 billion over the estimated costs.  The figures were from HMRC.  I'd picked up the initial smoking ones from a different site, but the HMRC figures confirms that as 10 billion raised.

Apologies for the faux pas.
		
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I've only just picked myself up off the floor mate.. My family put that much into the tax pot over Christmas alone  

Cheers :thup:

Edit.. Just thought I'd add - My wife is an ex A&E Nurse, and the effect that alcohol has on our health service is astounding.. Bouncers on the doors of hospitals. Rock bottom morale of Nurses and Doctors who have to endure some of the worst abuse I've ever seen.. That doesn't even take into account the time and treatment.. Shocking..


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## Foxholer (Jan 22, 2015)

BIM. That's the Direct Cost to the NHS and receipts from HMRC.

There are other slightly less direct costs - depending on stance. ASH list them here http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_121.pdf.

The relevant bits are....

<quote>
Research commissioned by ASH has shown that the total cost to society (in England) is
approximately Â£12.9 billion a year.
 This includes the cost to the NHS of treating diseases
caused by smoking in England which is approximately Â£2 billion a year.

 Other costs include:
â€¢ loss in productivity due to premature deaths (Â£3bn)
â€¢ cost to businesses of smoking breaks (Â£5bn)
â€¢ smoking-related sick days (Â£1bn)
â€¢ social care costs of older smokers (Â£1.1bn)
â€¢ costs of fires caused by smokersâ€™ materials (Â£391m)

</quote>
I wouldn't include 100% of all those referenced (though the figures may already allow for that), but there's certainly a bit more than simply Revenue in and NHS Costs out - where the Revenue in certainly 'beats' the Direct Costs out.

The other issue, if smoking was eliminated tonight, is that the costs will continue until all current smokers expire! Probably 50 years of significant, but decreasing, costs.


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## c1973 (Jan 22, 2015)

I don't smoke anymore. I'm glad I don't, it's a disgusting habbit. But it was a habbit I freely chose to partake in. I'm also glad there is help available to those wishing to quit and I'm glad we are made aware of the dangers.

But,  to all those folks banging the 'ban it' drum, I hope you realise they'll be after alcohol, sugar, take aways, fast food etc etc etc once they're finished hounding fags. I hope you keep that in mind when the 'social conscience police' come after your particular vice/pleasure looking to ban it and make you the social leper that smokers are being made to be. 

Rant over.


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## Foxholer (Jan 22, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I don't smoke anymore. I'm glad I don't, it's a disgusting habbit. But it was a habbit I freely chose to partake in. I'm also glad there is help available to those wishing to quit and I'm glad we are made aware of the dangers.

But,  to all those folks banging the 'ban it' drum, I hope you realise they'll be after alcohol, sugar, take aways, fast food etc etc etc once they're finished hounding fags. I hope you keep that in mind when the 'social conscience police' come after your particular vice/pleasure looking to ban it and make you the social leper that smokers are being made to be. 

Rant over. 

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While there's certainly some social and economic costs with alcohol, there's also significant social and economic benefits too. So there's no way that alcohol will be banned imo. If they didn't learn the consequences of attempting that during Prohibition, then there's little hope!

Smoking has very few social/economic benefits - tax raising aside! 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/BEER-HELPING-PEOPLE-SINCE-12x16/dp/B000O7MB92


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## Rooter (Jan 22, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Smoking has very few social/economic benefits - tax raising aside!
		
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OK, its a 2011 article, but 80,000 people are employed in jobs that rely on the tobacco industry.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...o-facts-ten-things-to-know-about-smoking.html


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## palindromicbob (Jan 23, 2015)

It'll make the job easier for bootleg cig makers. 

I think the Republic of Ireland has a good policy.  No cigarette packs visible in shops and only sell in 20's. Put of the guys that would buy the occasional 10 and removes the appeal created by the packages. 

I know I've tried quitting before and went to get fuel. Greeting me behind the counter was the beautiful colourful wall of nicotine death sticks and I'd ended up walking out with a tank full of diesel and a 20 deck.


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## Smiffy (Jan 23, 2015)

Hopefully they won't bring this in in Belgium, where I always get mine from.
50g pouch of Drum over here is about Â£17.00
In Belgium it's Â£5.00. What's not to like????


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## Slab (Jan 23, 2015)

Saw a sentiment that I thought was quite apt:

Illegal drug use seems to have no problem getting new 'recruits' and it doesn't come in 'glitzy' branded packaging


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## bernix (Jan 23, 2015)

21st september last year (a quite memorable day for me as it is the birthday of my late father, my wife & my boss !!) i was standing on the 18th tee of the new course at st. andrews. my playing partner, a chain smoking american, offered my a cigarette and up to now it was my last

yahoo-ya-boy-ya, i finally quit smoking !!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 23, 2015)

Elderly guy in a local village died recently.
Cigarette, bed, sleep, house fire. Another smoking related death.
Thankfully the young family next door were rescued.


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## palindromicbob (Jan 23, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Elderly guy in a local village died recently.
Cigarette, bed, sleep, house fire. Another smoking related death.
Thankfully the young family next door were rescued.
		
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No amount of legislation will account for idiots.


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 23, 2015)

They do go at it quite heavily at primary schools now.  My daughter is 8 and they have got the no smoking message loud and clear as they have had at least 2 lessons on it. Which to me sounds like a good approach.  

Personally I've never smoked even 1 cigarette and I think with my slightly addictive personality (as in I think I get addicted to things quite easily), it's one of the best decisions I ever made.  Luckily none of my mates I've had at school/uni/work smoked really so there was no peer pressure.  I have said to my daughter I don't overly mind what she does as long as she does not smoke.  And perhaps I am hypocritical as I like a beer or wine and openly drink in front of her, but hey ho.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 23, 2015)

Its a habit in the same way as drinking. As someone who was out most nights but only having 4 pints a night (OK more on a weekend) I never assumed I had a problem with drinking until I nearly died from acute pancreatitis. Blue lights, no four hour A&E wait, on 15 minute obs for a week and a four week stay in hospital. I knew of the risks but assumed it would never happen to me. Exactly the same for smokers and until something as drastic happens, they'll not break the cycle whether the packaging is plained or not


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## Rumpokid (Jan 23, 2015)

Being a non smoker, i think it is a shame that this kind of censorship is brought in..Diseased organs on packaging is pathetic..Loved the Marlboro man, JPS Lotus, Benson and Hedges, Embassy snooker.Did not make me want to smoke though, nor did peer pressure..Lets go the whole hog and put pictures of dropouts on bottles of Frosty Jack, and fatties on McDonalds mega meals...You could not make it up.


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## palindromicbob (Jan 23, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Its a habit in the same way as drinking. As someone who was out most nights but only having 4 pints a night (OK more on a weekend) I never assumed I had a problem with drinking until I nearly died from acute pancreatitis. Blue lights, no four hour A&E wait, on 15 minute obs for a week and a four week stay in hospital. I knew of the risks but assumed it would never happen to me. Exactly the same for smokers and until something as drastic happens, they'll not break the cycle whether the packaging is plained or not
		
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A bit simplistic there Homer as it is a lot more than simply habit. Smoking is driven by addition as can alcohol consumption.  Thankfully most who drink never get to the stage where addiction is an issue but anyone that smokes regularly is an addict.  
 It ain't like picking your nose or biting your nails. Quitting causes a systemic reaction and getting past the urges created by that reaction is the problem for most. Some get past them with ease, other find it harder. 

One thing that is spot on though is the packaging has nothing to do with it, it's the drug that people are after.


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## Bobirdie (Jan 23, 2015)

The government will never ban smoking they make too much from it! Ive never smoked in my life. If i wanted to i could have. I seen all the adverts my friends seen. Its down to the individual imo, depending on wether they were brought with their parents smoking etc probably swayed them more than a non smoking family. The brown packet will just be the norm a few years down the line.

The clear bags the illegal drugs are sold in aren't glitzy but that doesn't stop folk wanting them unfortunately!


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## JCW (Jan 23, 2015)

PC gone mad again , who really cares whats on the packet , who reads the warnings anyway , they smoke because they want too or need to


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## GB72 (Jan 24, 2015)

The best suggestion on here has been banning the sale of packs of 10. That is what most people start with and that is what helps people fall off the wagon when they just pick up 10 as a' one off" I certainly did but may have thought twice if I had to shell out for 20.


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## CMAC (Jan 24, 2015)

The main focus is to stop anyone, especially the kids and easily led, starting.

You're all street savvy adults who will get their addiction fed no matter what.


I was a big smoker- loved it, especially with alcohol. A round of golf started with a fag, essential to have a fresh packet in my bag and two lighters (lighter ran out once during a round and I could think of nothing else) 

Birdie- reward myself with a smoke
Bogie - commiserate with a smoke
Half way hut- chain smoke with coffee
end of round - talk about it with a pint and a smoke.

Zippo lighters- cool 'foreign' packets, all cool.


One day thought wtf- stopped and havent touched one since- only been 2.5 years and miss it, but I'd miss living more.


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## Smiffy (Jan 24, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Blue lights, no four hour A&E wait, on 15 minute obs for a week and a four week stay in hospital.
		
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Was that the week-end you shot an 87 followed by a 92 and went out .2 or am I getting confused????


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## richy (Jan 24, 2015)

I would never tell someone they shouldn't smoke however I really don't understand why people do. 
Your clothes stink
Your breath reeks
Your teeth turn to a disgusting yellow/brown colour
Your fingers turn yellow
It ages you rather quickly
It's bloody expensive 
You look in pain doing it by the facial expressions you pull
Not to mention all the health concers and diseases you get from it


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## Ethan (Jan 24, 2015)

Rumpokid said:



			Being a non smoker, i think it is a shame that this kind of censorship is brought in..Diseased organs on packaging is pathetic..Loved the Marlboro man, JPS Lotus, Benson and Hedges, Embassy snooker.Did not make me want to smoke though, nor did peer pressure..Lets go the whole hog and put pictures of dropouts on bottles of Frosty Jack, and fatties on McDonalds mega meals...You could not make it up.
		
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Good for you. You are obviously a person with great inner strength and will power. Ample evidence proves that many others are not so fortunate and are influenced by advertising and marketing.

As for alcohol and burgers, there are different considerations. Alcohol in moderate doses is actually good for you, and reduces heart disease deaths, probably due to a mild anticoagulant effect. Burgers might not be the healthiest thing in the world but are better than nothing and are OK as an occasional treat in a balanced diet.


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## Rumpokid (Jan 24, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Good for you. You are obviously a person with great inner strength and will power. Ample evidence proves that many others are not so fortunate and are influenced by advertising and marketing.

As for alcohol and burgers, there are different considerations. Alcohol in moderate doses is actually good for you, and reduces heart disease deaths, probably due to a mild anticoagulant effect. Burgers might not be the healthiest thing in the world but are better than nothing and are OK as an occasional treat in a balanced diet.
		
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You make a good point, i agree with the bit about moderation i.e burgers and alcohol, however, even you must admit that if these 2 things are done to excess, as is the case by lots of people in society, causing very serious health issues,which can inevitably lead to premature death, or hospitalisation,surely this is not to dissimilar to smoking?

My main point was that i believe the crude pictures on cigarette packaging is way over the top IMHO.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 24, 2015)

Despite what the do-gooders would have us believe recent research has shown getting cancer is mostly down to 'bad luck'...

Can I therefore ask, that in future, all 'bad luck' is placed in plain packaging so I don't acquire any in error...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2015)

I smoked for 18 years whilst in the RAF - it was "cool" when i started 

But when i think back i wonder how much money i wasted on it 

Its not a nice habit , you smell , your taste buds are ruined , yellow fingers and teeth and thats without the obvious health issues of what is going into your lungs and blood - think hiding the packets is good , having the images is also good as is the sale of packets of tens.

Double their price and have the money go towards the NHS only. Keep banning it from public places etc - would also ban it from cars 

But i can understand why people smoke because you do get a kick from it and a nice feeling 

If only the government didnt gain so much tax from it


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## CMAC (Jan 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I smoked for 18 years whilst in the RAF - it was "cool" when i started 

But when i think back i wonder how much money i wasted on it 

Its not a nice habit , you smell , your taste buds are ruined , yellow fingers and teeth and thats without the obvious health issues of what is going into your lungs and blood - think hiding the packets is good , having the images is also good as is the sale of packets of tens.

Double their price and have the money go towards the NHS only. Keep banning it from public places etc - *would also ban it from cars *

But i can understand why people smoke because you do get a kick from it and a nice feeling 

If only the government didnt gain so much tax from it
		
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didnt I hear that was going to be law shortly? good thing too, especially with these idiots who have kids in the car:angry:


p.s Welcome to the forum:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2015)

CMAC said:



			didnt I hear that was going to be law shortly? good thing too, especially with these idiots who have kids in the car:angry:


p.s Welcome to the forum:thup:
		
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I think there was talk of it being law in regards kids in the car but would also have it law for concentration purposes as well.


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## Ethan (Jan 24, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			Despite what the do-gooders would have us believe recent research has shown getting cancer is mostly down to 'bad luck'...
		
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Smoking is strongly associated with a number of cancers. There may be an element of luck in whether you are one of the smokers who doesn't, but that is akin to running across the motorway with a blindfold. You may be lucky ....

The news story recently said that 2/3 of cancers were due to bad luck, when the original paper actually said that there was a 2/3 correlation between the rate of cell division and occurrence of cancer. These two things do not even remotely mean the same thing. 

A number of the big cancers are known to be associated with one factor or another, genetics, environmental exposures and lifestyle factors. Smoking is one of the strongest carcinogenic factors of all of these.


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## c1973 (Jan 24, 2015)

More pollutants floating about your average busy street imo. And I'm well aware how toxic fags are.


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## Hobbit (Jan 24, 2015)

Dad - 70 a day man, died horribly suffering from chronic COPD.
Mum - 50 a day, died horribly of furred arteries that fed the bowel.... the detail, and the suffering...
Mum-in-law - 60 a day, had a respiratory attack 6 yrs ago and had to be resuscitated. From be an exceptionally bright, intelligent lady we ended up with a child. She continued to deteriorate mentally and with chronic COPD... a nasty cold before Christmas, and she lasted 3 days...

After growing up with two heavy smokers, and being very sporting, I've never been interested in smoking. That said, I'd never criticise anyone for their habit - their choice.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 24, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Smoking is strongly associated with a number of cancers. There may be an element of luck in whether you are one of the smokers who doesn't, but that is akin to running across the motorway with a blindfold. You may be lucky ....

The news story recently said that 2/3 of cancers were due to bad luck, when the original paper actually said that there was a 2/3 correlation between the rate of cell division and occurrence of cancer. These two things do not even remotely mean the same thing. 

A number of the big cancers are known to be associated with one factor or another, genetics, environmental exposures and lifestyle factors. Smoking is one of the strongest carcinogenic factors of all of these.
		
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You are, of course, right...

But, having just 'lost' a colleague of many years who lived his life more or less how the medical profession would have us believe gives us a better chance of a longer life... I am even more so of the belief that if your number is up that's it! No amount of do-gooding is gonna change that...


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## richy (Jan 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But i can understand why people smoke because you do get a kick from it and a nice feeling
		
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A bit like coke then?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2015)

richy said:



			A bit like coke then?
		
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I wouldnt know - never touched the stuff.


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## Fyldewhite (Jan 24, 2015)

Forget all the tangents re drinking etc. The bottom line is that smoking is very bad for you, it is likely to shorten your life, most people who smoke wish they didn't (if they are honest) and initiatives like plain packaging, banning advertising, smoking ban in pubs etc all contribute to a varying amount to people either giving up or not starting in the first place. All of the above is simple fact.........however you package it (forgive the pun).....on the whole these initiatives are a good thing and I for one support them. Yes I may get cancer tomorrow, or get hit by a bus or whatever but those arguments are just missing the point.


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## richy (Jan 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wouldnt know - never touched the stuff.
		
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But you must know that you're supposed to get a kick from it and a nice feeling. Can you understand why people have it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2015)

richy said:



			But you must know that you're supposed to get a kick from it and a nice feeling. Can you understand why people have it?
		
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Yes i can understand people getting addicted and using substances that give them a high.


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## DanFST (Jan 24, 2015)

It always makes me laugh how the anti-smoking brigade really do care so much about what us smokers do "smoking is silly, i don't get why people do it" . It's a lifestyle choice we have chosen, get over it. 

RE: plain packaging. I think it's a bad thing, as others have said it would be a bad thing and increase fake cigarettes from eastern europe. Man they are nasty! Cigarettes are already hidden from view, why does the packaging need to be plain? incase someone see's in the brief 2 seconds I pull it out to get smoke? I'm going to have a fag in my mouth for the next 4 minutes, I think a kids gonna see that and be more intrigued!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2015)

DanFST said:



			It always makes me laugh how the anti-smoking brigade really do care so much about what us smokers do "smoking is silly, i don't get why people do it" . It's a lifestyle choice we have chosen, get over it.
		
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Its a lifestyle choice that possibly effects more than just the person making the choice 




			RE: plain packaging. I think it's a bad thing, as others have said it would be a bad thing and increase fake cigarettes from eastern europe. *Man they are nasty*! Cigarettes are already hidden from view, why does the packaging need to be plain? incase someone see's in the brief 2 seconds I pull it out to get smoke? I'm going to have a fag in my mouth for the next 4 minutes, I think a kids gonna see that and be more intrigued!
		
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As ooposed to the non fakes ones which are like pretty flowers - all cigarettes are nasty - plain and simple.

Yes it is a lifestyle choice but people will always question why people would chose to do something that clearly effects their health is a very dangerous way.


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## Ethan (Jan 24, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			You are, of course, right...

But, having just 'lost' a colleague of many years who lived his life more or less how the medical profession would have us believe gives us a better chance of a longer life... I am even more so of the belief that if your number is up that's it! No amount of do-gooding is gonna change that...
		
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Well, the best thing you can do for good health and longevity is to choose your parents carefully. Your colleague probably did have a better chance of a longer life, but nothing is guaranteed. I have been at 2 funerals of people in their 30s in the past few weeks too. 

But sensible public health measures are not do-gooding. Everyone goes sometime, but it is nice to delay it a bit sometimes.


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## DanFST (Jan 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its a lifestyle choice *that possibly effects* more than just the person making the choice
		
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All choices could possibly affect more than just the person making the choice. I won't smoke in my house as I have dogs, I won't smoke in my car in if theirs a kid in it. When smoking in public I've been pushed outside, how am I having a detrimental affect on someone's quality of life? 



Liverpoolphil said:



As ooposed to the non fakes ones which are like pretty flowers - all cigarettes are nasty - plain and simple

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Did you forget your "IMO" at the end of that sentence? if not, you are wrong, you can have an opinion. But you can't pass it off as fact. A non smoker to pass their opinions on the subject off as gospel? That's new!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2015)

DanFST said:



			All choices could possibly affect more than just the person making the choice. I won't smoke in my house as I have dogs, I won't smoke in my car in if theirs a kid in it. When smoking in public I've been pushed outside, how am I having a detrimental affect on someone's quality of life?
		
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Do you come into contact with people who dont smoke - people who smell and inhale the smell and second hand smoke stuck to you ? Do you have a wife or GF or you kiss etc who you pass on second hand smoke. Smoking has an effect on everyone 




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Did you forget your "IMO" at the end of that sentence? if not, you are wrong, you can have an opinion. But you can't pass it off as fact. A non smoker to pass their opinions on the subject off as gospel? That's new! 

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I am an ex smoker who smoked for a great deal of time - so i can pass of my opinion on the taste of cigarettes as disgusting as a fact


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## DanFST (Jan 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you come into contact with people who dont smoke - people who smell and inhale the smell and second hand smoke stuck to you ? Do you have a wife or GF or you kiss etc who you pass on second hand smoke. Smoking has an effect on everyone
		
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I suggest you reread my post. I asked how I was having a detrimental affect on somones quality of life? And almost all choices affect everyone. Someone smelling me when I smell of smoke. Is not going to have a detrimental affect the quality of their life, it's much like some of the rubbish you post! 




Liverpoolphil said:



I can pass of my opinion as a fact

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Sadly you can't, I know you occasionally post like you do! But it doesn't make it so.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 24, 2015)

DanFST said:



			I suggest you reread my post.* I asked how I was having a detrimental affect on somones quality of life?* And almost all choices affect everyone. Someone smelling me when I smell of smoke. Is not going to have a detrimental affect the quality of their life, it's much like some of the rubbish you post! 




Sadly you can't, I know you occasionally post like you do! But it doesn't make it so. 


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I gave you a number things that show how you smoking will have an effect on someones life - you just decided to ignore them 

But as you say its your choice - you know the risks and still make the choice


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## Foxholer (Jan 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I am an ex smoker who smoked for a great deal of time - so i can pass of my opinion on the taste of cigarettes as disgusting as a fact
		
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<logic mode>
No you can't - generally!

It might carry more weight, but it's still only your opinion (and that of many others btw) and doesn't mean it's a fact! 

Had you stated 'I find the taste of cigarettes disgusting', there would have no question! 
</logic mode>


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 24, 2015)

Both parents were heavy smokers and looking back there was always a fug of smoke in the living room, long before anyone mentioned passive smoker. Never smoked in my life but its in the back of my mind whether all those years living in a house with such heavy smokers will have had a detrimental effect on my life. 

Of course the answer is to stop the kids getting into smoking. However that's been said since I was in school way back when and clearly the message isn't hitting home as there always seems to be a next generation coming along in what seem to be large numbers still.


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## USER1999 (Jan 24, 2015)

I smoked for a while, I flipping loved it. I smoked a heck of a lot too. But I quit. If e cigs had existed, I'd have been all over them like a rash. They are brilliant. I know this, because I've had a go on them. Especially the posh ones that could pass for bongs. The only reason why I have not started using one is that I've invested heavily in not smoking, and I don't want to go down that road again. I hope the government leave them alone.


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 25, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Smoking is strongly associated with a number of cancers. There may be an element of luck in whether you are one of the smokers who doesn't, but that is akin to running across the motorway with a blindfold. You may be lucky ....

The news story recently said that 2/3 of cancers were due to bad luck, when the original paper actually said that there was a 2/3 correlation between the rate of cell division and occurrence of cancer. These two things do not even remotely mean the same thing. 

A number of the big cancers are known to be associated with one factor or another, genetics, environmental exposures and lifestyle factors. Smoking is one of the strongest carcinogenic factors of all of these.
		
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Hey, give it a rest Ben Goldacre.  Next you'll be telling us that mainstream media completely misrepresent and dangerously simplify medical research and studies in an attempt to either frighten or sensationalize the public in order to sell more papers.  Doom monger.


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## guest100718 (Jan 26, 2015)

I was a big smoker for many years. I enjoyed it and still miss it sometimes but I am glad I quit and any thing that can help stop other starting can only be good.


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## Ethan (Jan 26, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Hey, give it a rest Ben Goldacre.  Next you'll be telling us that mainstream media completely misrepresent and dangerously simplify medical research and studies in an attempt to either frighten or sensationalize the public in order to sell more papers.  Doom monger.
		
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Well, in this case, the original press release on the research was a bit misleading, so the media interpretation was reasonable even if wrong. 

Unlike Ben Goldacre, though, I am not trying to sell any books.


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## palindromicbob (Jan 26, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Hey, give it a rest Ben Goldacre.  Next you'll be telling us that mainstream media completely misrepresent and dangerously simplify medical research and studies in an attempt to either frighten or sensationalize the public in order to sell more papers.  Doom monger.
		
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What!  Are you telling me the Daily Mail isn't an accurate evidence base for me to use for my job?  Will need to find a new source if I'm to keep up my registration


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## Crazyface (Jan 27, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Sorry to go all "forum" on you, but do you have a link to the "Booze raises only Â£2 Billion.. Its a startling statistic if true 

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I'm doing my bit !!!!


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 28, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			What!  Are you telling me the Daily Mail isn't an accurate evidence base for me to use for my job?  Will need to find a new source if I'm to keep up my registration 

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I'm afraid so..... but stay strong.  I've just about got over the fact that you do not get cancer from toast, but it's taken me a long time.

Also whilst we are at it I would not take what The Daily Express says about the weather that seriuosly either. I know, I could not believe it either that we are not having 100 days of snow like The Express told us was going to happen.  The only rational explanation is that they use some crack pot forecaster who reads tea leaves or something like that who just makes increasingly ridiculous claims about weather extremes that never happen, that they slavishly reprint in order to sell papers. But surely that can't be true


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## drdel (Jan 29, 2015)

Hopefully the 'standard' package wont be easier for the counterfeiters !


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