# Wear your Poppy with pride...



## Fish (Oct 30, 2015)

:rant: 

Certain individuals in the public eye not wearing a Poppy is really getting my goat!  Stupid excuses like 'I don't agree with war' or 'the British army persecuted the people in my country', it's a symbol of remembrance ffs, nobody wants to go to war, it doesn't represent one side, it doesn't even just represent the military deaths in conflict, it's the bigger picture which so far even Sergio Aguero can fathom out.  

It's narrow minded individuals in a position of power with a one vision mindset that generally lead to conflict, so you're more closely matched than you probably think! 

Everyone knows someone, who knows someone affected by war, so wear it for them. 

Freedom of speech is a blessing however naivety is stupidity &#8234;

So those refusing to wear the poppy do so as a political statement...proving that they are ignorant of the feeling of the majority of the nation and are only interested in publicising themselves or their own political beliefs...totally blind to the fact that those which the poppy represent gave their lives so that these self serving individuals can do just that.....
  :rant:


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## Grogger (Oct 30, 2015)

I do get that it annoys some people that other people won't wear the poppy but everyone has a choice. 

I haven't worn one for years. Not that I wouldn't but they always fall off or last 5 minutes. I have a mini poppy badge that I always have on my leeds scarf. 

Some people will have donated cash to the British legion and not wore the poppy for many reasons.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 30, 2015)

Freedom of choice. People have the right not to agree with them.

I wear one but I have no issue with those who don't.


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## tugglesf239 (Oct 30, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



Freedom of choice. People have the right not to agree with them.
		
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I agree with you however there is a huge amount of Irony involved in that sentence


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 30, 2015)

I've got past worrying about those that don't wear Poppies for political reasons as then the point of the Poppy becomes about them rather than the real reason, no amount of political statement will ever deflect from the what the Poppy means and what it stands for.
If you wear one, wear it with  Pride, if you don't, then fine, just don't try and tell me why, keep it to yourself, I won't be offended.


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## Alex1975 (Oct 30, 2015)

Who are we talking about who is making a stand on this point from the public eye?


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## Hobbit (Oct 30, 2015)

I always buy one and wear it as a show of respect etc, I'll attend the service and I'll do the minute's silence. However, I also respect the choice of those that choose otherwise. And I'm mindful that those that served did so, so that people in this country have a choice as to how we live.

Equally, there are some that, perhaps, don't realise that the freedoms they have are earned and need to be respected, inc. the freedom of speech. Choose not to wear one, fine, but don't do it to make a political statement. The poppy should be an apolitical symbol.


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## jp5 (Oct 30, 2015)

Absolutely we should remember and be grateful for the sacrifices that others made to allow us to live the way we do.

Though I do find the media race to see who can wear their poppy first every year a little glib.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 30, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			I agree with you however there is a huge amount of Irony involved in that sentence
		
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Yes I get that. As long as they don't force that view aggressively onto people then that is fine. That has to work both ways though. I get the whole argument about only having the freedom to choose because of sacrifices made etc but this is a complicated situation for some people and they are fully entitled to not wear one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 30, 2015)

The poppy is a symbol of respect to people who sacrificed themselves to ensure that we as a country and live freely 

People in recent years have taken it to mean you are supporting war or supporting the armed forces etc 

People can chose not to wear it as is their right but have heard too many times the reason being the Irag or Afghan war and people being against the Armed Forces


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## davidy233 (Oct 30, 2015)

I don't wear a poppy and both my grandads (one died) as well as my dad and my brother fought for my right to choose - I don't need to wear a paper flower to remember them


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## Rooter (Oct 30, 2015)

I will be in germany for the 11th and will be wearing my poppy with pride. I actually posted the same time last year (annual event there) and i did not receive any negativity. Many i assume had no idea what it was for anyway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Oct 30, 2015)

Not judging anyone who reads or posts on this thread, but the other thing about the Poppy Appeal people forget is that it is an invaluable way for the British Legion to raise funds for looking after those who need it. Every penny of your donation goes to the RBL, none of it is taken away for admin costs or anything else, it is one of the few Charities that ensure 100% of what you give is used for Charitable purposes, the last few years have raised over 30 Million each year. Thank you in advance for your support and generous donations.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 30, 2015)

Rooter said:



			I will be in germany for the 11th and will be wearing my poppy with pride. I actually posted the same time last year (annual event there) and i did not receive any negativity. Many i assume had no idea what it was for anyway.
		
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Not in Munich are you? I'm there on the 11th this year for an exhibition.


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## Kellfire (Oct 30, 2015)

People who use the poppy for their own agenda is the issue.

I don't wear a poppy. I have that choice. If people take that as a de facto two-fingers to the armed forces, as many do, then that is their own issue.


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## Rooter (Oct 30, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Not in Munich are you? I'm there on the 11th this year for an exhibition.
		
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No Will be in Frankfurt.


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## hovis (Oct 30, 2015)

I don't wear a popy because i cant be bothered to take it on and off and put holes in my clothes.   I personally make one donation of Â£50 a year.    Does that make me disrespectful?


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## Fyldewhite (Oct 30, 2015)

Each to their own, it's a charity at the end of the day, that's all. And the right to choose is one of the things they fought for.....it's a free country. I wear one to remember the conscripts and volunteers of my grandads generation who were slaughtered with their pals on the Somme and elsewhere. They had little choice in the matter and to me it's still what the poppy appeal is all about.

Also, I absolutely despise the use of the poppy as a symbol of nationalism by the far right. Oh the irony, these people would actually take away many of the freedoms hard won by the sacrifice of ordinary folk a century ago and again 75 years ago. Its use on cheap facebook posts and elsewhere is an insult to their memory.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 30, 2015)

Back in the day when I was a lad I don't remember us wearing a poppy other than on Remembrance Sunday - maybe my parents did in the days before and I just don't remember - but don't think they did.

I will probably buy a poppy, but I if I do I won't be moving it from one jacket or jersey to another when I go out - and I won't buy more than one.  So I may have a poppy but just not happen to be wearing it; that does not stop be being thoughtful on the sacrifices made by others on my behalf.  I'd be a bit upset if someone accused me of not caring (or worse) if I was spotted not wearing a poppy.


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## freddielong (Oct 30, 2015)

The problem with this kind of gesture is it has to be free will or it is pointless, if all of a sudden wearing a poppy became compulsory then there would be no point doing it as people would do it because they had to, and the thought and respect would be lost.

I will / am wearing one as I think it is an amazing charity and I also think it does us good to remember what others have given up and been through.

That said I really understand the op's frustration with people on TV not wearing them, especially when they will be there off set for them to put on they will have to physically say no not for me which I don't understand.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 30, 2015)

freddielong said:



			The problem with this kind of gesture is it has to be free will or it is pointless, if all of a sudden wearing a poppy became compulsory then there would be no point doing it as people would do it because they had to, and the thought and respect would be lost.

I will / am wearing one as I think it is an amazing charity and I also think it does us good to remember what others have given up and been through.

That said I really understand the op's frustration with people on TV not wearing them, especially when they will be there off set for them to put on *they will have to physically say no not for me* which I don't understand.
		
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Even if they are then *this *is no more than a wee bit of conjecture to be honest


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 30, 2015)

I always wear one. Been installed in me from a young age to remember the fallen. Not ever been bothered by the politics or the rights and wrongs, just something I feel happy to do once a year as a mark of respect


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## Piece (Oct 30, 2015)

I wear one. Just my small way of saying thank you to the fallen.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 31, 2015)

Whilst  i get the OPs frustration, what i don't  get is why we have 2 -3 weeks of poppy wearing. We have a Day of Remembrance for the purpose. For most people on the Sunday but for me it will as usual be at the ceremony we organise on the 11th. I shall wear a poppy on the day.

If you want to "remember" all year round - fine,  then you should. You could even choose to wear a poppy year round. Else "remember" as a deliberate act on the day. I just don't  get the "oh, i must now start wearing a poppy" fortnight.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2015)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...t-World-War-British-soldiers-monney-pointless


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## Tashyboy (Nov 1, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I always wear one. Been installed in me from a young age to remember the fallen. Not ever been bothered by the politics or the rights and wrongs, just something I feel happy to do once a year as a mark of respect
		
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Good point well put.

was gobsmacked yesterday in Southampton. Went into the British legion shop to get some bits and bobs. they cannot sell to the public as they don't have a licence &#128563; Have to buy online.


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## Crazyface (Nov 2, 2015)

Piece said:



			I wear one. Just my small way of saying thank you to the fallen.
		
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x2

Simple and correct post !!!


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## MegaSteve (Nov 2, 2015)

A bit dismayed to read some of the ceramic poppies used [and sold for charity] at the Tower of London last year are now being sold on at a profit...


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## Ethan (Nov 2, 2015)

Warning: Unpopular post follows. Don't complain if you read it and don't like it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/james-mcclean-west-brom-winger-will-again-decide-against-wearing-the-remembrance-day-poppy-a6716116.html

I agree with James McClean. He is from Derry, NI, and in NI the poppy is highly politicised and strongly associated with the loyalist orange cause. The role of Irish volunteers who died in the Somme has been airbrushed from history by the same loyalists whi use The Somme as a rallying cry for loyalism. And the poppy is used to commemorate and celebrate more modern British Army regiments including those who perpetrated Bloody Sunday. No Catholic in Derry willingly wears one. 

Naturally the rabid right has piled onto McClean. They have completely missed the point and in doing so simply displayed their own myopia and ignorance. They should be demanding that only people who genuinely want to should wear one and that people shouldn't wear one because of social or other pressure. They should demand that it must be voluntary if it means anything at all. 

The irony is that many think they support the poppy as a commemoration of victory over authoritarian right wing forces yet want to be authoritarian and right wing themselves in forcing others to wear them.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Warning: Unpopular post follows. Don't complain if you read it and don't like it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/james-mcclean-west-brom-winger-will-again-decide-against-wearing-the-remembrance-day-poppy-a6716116.html

I agree with James McClean. He is from Derry, NI, and in NI the poppy is highly politicised and strongly associated with the loyalist orange cause. The role of Irish volunteers who died in the Somme has been airbrushed from history by the same loyalists whi use The Somme as a rallying cry for loyalism. And the poppy is used to commemorate and celebrate more modern British Army regiments including those who perpetrated Bloody Sunday. No Catholic in Derry willingly wears one. 

Naturally the rabid right has piled onto McClean. They have completely missed the point and in doing so simply displayed their own myopia and ignorance. They should be demanding that only people who genuinely want to should wear one and that people shouldn't wear one because of social or other pressure. They should demand that it must be voluntary if it means anything at all. 

The irony is that many think they support the poppy as a commemoration of victory over authoritarian right wing forces yet want to be authoritarian and right wing themselves in forcing others to wear them.
		
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 Nobody should be forced to wear it, just don't expect sympathy from everyone as I'm sure there were innocent victims of the Birmingham pub bombings that support WBA that help pay his wages and they live with that everyday.


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## Beezerk (Nov 2, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			A bit dismayed to read some of the ceramic poppies used [and sold for charity] at the Tower of London last year are now being sold on at a profit...
		
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I generally don't wear a poppy (probably out of laziness more than a conscious decision) however we do have one of those ToL poppies on permanent show in a window of our new house, it looks superb I have to say. I think the mother in law bought it for us last year when they went on sale.


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## Ethan (Nov 2, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Nobody should be forced to wear it, just don't expect sympathy from everyone as I'm sure there were innocent victims of the Birmingham pub bombings that support WBA that help pay his wages and they live with that everyday.
		
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That silly comment illustrates just how much some people don't get it, and it is probably a waste of breath even trying to explain it to them.

When did the poppy start commemorating the victims of the Birmingham bombing?


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## Kellfire (Nov 2, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Warning: Unpopular post follows. Don't complain if you read it and don't like it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/james-mcclean-west-brom-winger-will-again-decide-against-wearing-the-remembrance-day-poppy-a6716116.html

I agree with James McClean. He is from Derry, NI, and in NI the poppy is highly politicised and strongly associated with the loyalist orange cause. The role of Irish volunteers who died in the Somme has been airbrushed from history by the same loyalists whi use The Somme as a rallying cry for loyalism. And the poppy is used to commemorate and celebrate more modern British Army regiments including those who perpetrated Bloody Sunday. No Catholic in Derry willingly wears one. 

Naturally the rabid right has piled onto McClean. They have completely missed the point and in doing so simply displayed their own myopia and ignorance. They should be demanding that only people who genuinely want to should wear one and that people shouldn't wear one because of social or other pressure. They should demand that it must be voluntary if it means anything at all. 

The irony is that many think they support the poppy as a commemoration of victory over authoritarian right wing forces yet want to be authoritarian and right wing themselves in forcing others to wear them.
		
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The main issue I have with McClean isn't necessarily the things he says but the way in which he says it.

That said, he is clearly quite sectarian and I doubt anyone would really deny such a thing, which is his right but thankfully he's an ever decreasing breed and that is why his minority views shine through so brightly.


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## JamesR (Nov 2, 2015)

Do we only wear a Poppy to remember our own dead?
Surely it should be to remember all those that died, on both sides of any conflict, to remember the futility of war and to try to learn from past mistakes!


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## Val (Nov 2, 2015)

No-one should be forced to wear a poppy, it should be choice therefore no one should be slated for not wearing it.

Is it disrespectful not wearing one? IMO no, I only wear one on Remembrance Sunday along with my corps tie, beret and medals, I don't believe for a minute im being disrespectful for not having one on from late October. By attending a service im probably showing more respect than anyone wearing one for a fortnight and not attending a service.

It's choice and everyone's choice should be respected whether your name is James McClean or David Cameron.


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## brendy (Nov 2, 2015)

My understanding is that remembering the dead is only part of it, the RBL looks after those in the Army/RAF etc  hurt/disabled/affected that would perhaps otherwise struggle to get by and not able to hold their previous staff position.
Being a charity, it is entirely up to the person whether he/she wears a poppy, likewise, the red, pink ribbon, puzzle ribbons etc for other charities. 
I do give to the RBL Poppy appeal, I choose not to wear the poppy itself for no other reason that I dont wear any other wristband or ribbon for the other charities/awareness groups I may occasionally contribute to. 

I guess part of it comes down to not being "English", we do not have that close an affinity for fighting for your country here in NI because of the past and the somewhat stigmatised "us and them'uns" mentality (nevermind the majority of us that are in the middle). Things are changing though, I can remember not that long ago a car with English plates would be stoned in the likes of West Belfast, these days there are nearly as many English plated taxis and cars as there are NI reg'd motors (seems a daft example, but I reiterate, things are slowly changing). Give it a few generations, fewer and fewer will be bothered with arguing.


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## Keeno (Nov 2, 2015)

Val said:



			No-one should be forced to wear a poppy, it should be choice therefore no one should be slated for not wearing it.

Is it disrespectful not wearing one? IMO no, I only wear one on Remembrance Sunday along with my corps tie, beret and medals, I don't believe for a minute im being disrespectful for not having one on from late October. By attending a service im probably showing more respect than anyone wearing one for a fortnight and not attending a service.

It's choice and everyone's choice should be respected whether your name is James McClean or David Cameron.
		
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This kind of sensible post has no place on this forum


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Warning: Unpopular post follows. Don't complain if you read it and don't like it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/james-mcclean-west-brom-winger-will-again-decide-against-wearing-the-remembrance-day-poppy-a6716116.html

I agree with James McClean. He is from Derry, NI, and in NI the poppy is highly politicised and strongly associated with the loyalist orange cause. The role of Irish volunteers who died in the Somme has been airbrushed from history by the same loyalists whi use The Somme as a rallying cry for loyalism. And the poppy is used to commemorate and celebrate more modern British Army regiments including those who perpetrated Bloody Sunday. No Catholic in Derry willingly wears one. 

Naturally the rabid right has piled onto McClean. They have completely missed the point and in doing so simply displayed their own myopia and ignorance. They should be demanding that only people who genuinely want to should wear one and that people shouldn't wear one because of social or other pressure. They should demand that it must be voluntary if it means anything at all. 

The irony is that many think they support the poppy as a commemoration of victory over authoritarian right wing forces yet want to be authoritarian and right wing themselves in forcing others to wear them.
		
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My mothers family are from Derry and my grandma still lives there and is Catholic as is my uncle and they willingly wear a poppy because they wear it to remember anyone who has fallen protecting the country and ignore any attempts to make it a political statement 

No one should ever be forced to wear one and the poppies on a football shirt is something new and it should be down to each person's opinion and choice 

But it does make me sad that people do use it for anything other than just showing that you remember people making sacrifices for the good of mankind 

The poppy should IMO be used to remember and commemorate anyone you believe should be remembered by yourself 

The same regiment that was involved in Sunday Bloody Sunday was also involved in WW2 and DDay etc - commemorate them for the good they did that day

Right now the Armed Forces still has a stigma attached to it in NI and people will find it hard to commemorate them because of the history over the last 40 years - hopefully one day things can change but will need a long time


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2015)

Ethan said:



			That silly comment illustrates just how much some people don't get it, and it is probably a waste of breath even trying to explain it to them.

When did the poppy start commemorating the victims of the Birmingham bombing?
		
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Silly comment in your opinion, He has a chance being a "minor" public figure to try and help mend the past, he wasn't even born when Bloody Sunday happened.
If the Queen, who's Uncle was blown up, can shake hands with former terrorists, then I see no reason why for 90 minutes a year he can't play football in a shirt with a Poppy on. His attitude to me does more harm than good.


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## Fish (Nov 2, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The same regiment that was involved in Sunday Bloody Sunday was also involved in WW2 and DDay etc - commemorate them for the good they did that day

Right now the Armed Forces still has a stigma attached to it in NI and people will find it hard to commemorate them because of the history over the last 40 years - hopefully one day things can change but will need a long time
		
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Not a chance, irrelevant of how much time will pass, I did 4 tours between 77-85 in NI during some terrible times and did 1 tour after I'd passed my Pathfinder cadre and was attached to the regiment you refer and the difference in how I was treated on a daily basis was 10 times worse than my other tours, so, attitudes will not change, as some scars, on both sides won't ever heal.  It's a shame that it finds some association with the troubles but I'm not surprised also.


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## Fish (Nov 2, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Silly comment in your opinion, He has a chance being a "minor" public figure to try and help mend the past, he wasn't even born when Bloody Sunday happened.
*If the Queen, who's Uncle was blown up, can shake hands with former terrorists, then I see no reason why for 90 minutes a year he can't play football in a shirt with a Poppy on. His attitude to me does more harm than good*.
		
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I agree with this, it's only when people making a noticeable change for the greater good however small at the time without them relinquishing their true beliefs will some things move forward.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 2, 2015)

I do not wear a poppy, but my wife and I make an annual contribution to the fund. 
I stopped wearing one when the BBC made it compulsory for presenters to wear them from what seems like mid September.

I am disappointed at the dirty looks I get from collectors etc.
To judge someone because they do not wear a poppy is dreadful in my opinion........what do they know about that individuals thoughts or actions.


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## Val (Nov 2, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I am disappointed at the dirty looks I get from collectors etc.
To judge someone because they do not wear a poppy is dreadful in my opinion........what do they know about that individuals thoughts or actions.
		
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I don't often agree DFT but do here, whole heartedly


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I do not wear a poppy, but my wife and I make an annual contribution to the fund. 
I stopped wearing one when the BBC made it compulsory for presenters to wear them from what seems like mid September.

I am disappointed at the dirty looks I get from collectors etc.
To judge someone because they do not wear a poppy is dreadful in my opinion........what do they know about that individuals thoughts or actions.
		
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It's very disappointing to read you get dirty looks from the poppy volunteers, I've been a case worker for 8 years and help do the Poppy selling in the local area, one think we are constantly reminded when standing there is not to judge people as we have no idea of their situation, apologies from me as that is just wrong. As I put previously I have no issue with people wearing a poppy or not, it is when they decide to make it public and political I find frustrating.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I do not wear a poppy, but my wife and I make an annual contribution to the fund. 
I stopped wearing one when the BBC made it compulsory for presenters to wear them from what seems like mid September.

I am disappointed at the dirty looks I get from collectors etc.
*To judge someone because they do not wear a poppy is dreadful in my opinion........what do they know about that individuals thoughts or actions.*

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That is a disappointing thing to hear - with most of not all having some connection to war veterans have found them always to be the most humble respectful people I have ever met - every year we used to stand with them to collect at supermarkets and not witnessed one judgemental look or heard them say anything to suggest as such - hopefully then one you witnessed was more a one off


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			I generally don't wear a poppy (probably out of laziness more than a conscious decision) however we do have one of those ToL poppies on permanent show in a window of our new house, it looks superb I have to say. I think the mother in law bought it for us last year when they went on sale.
		
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We managed to secure three which are in poppy vases, one on the window sill of our new house's front room, one in the family room and one in the kitchen. I'm not surprised to see them being sold on. Is it right? Not really but it's supply and demand. What can you do? Would be nice to think the seller would make a donation to the poppy appeal but there again I'm realistic enough to know that won't happen 99% of the time


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## Tashyboy (Nov 2, 2015)

JamesR said:



			Do we only wear a Poppy to remember our own dead?
Surely it should be to remember all those that died, on both sides of any conflict, to remember the futility of war and to try to learn from past mistakes!
		
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Wholeheartdly agree and even though the "sea of blood" display at the ToL was classed as a work of art I am sure that people who viewed the display from all over the world have been educated in the Poppy's symbolic being.

However I read an excellent piece on the BBC website the other day how some political party's/ organisations unfortunately use the poppy to further there cause.
Strange that the BBC write an excellent piece on this, then enforce employees to wear one.


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## Val (Nov 2, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That is a disappointing thing to hear - with most of not all having some connection to war veterans have found them always to be the most humble respectful people I have ever met - every year we used to stand with them to collect at supermarkets and not witnessed one judgemental look or heard them say anything to suggest as such - hopefully then one you witnessed was more a one off
		
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It's not always vets that collect, occasionally young ones do it, ACF, ATC etc, all it takes is an 20 year old to remark in earshot of young ones.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2015)

Val said:



			It's not always vets that collect, occasionally young ones do it, ACF, ATC etc, all it takes is an 20 year old to remark in earshot of young ones.
		
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Yep no doubt at all - shame if people are feeling they are being forced to wear it or forced to donate - goes against the whole principle.


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## Old Skier (Nov 2, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...t-World-War-British-soldiers-monney-pointless



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The man needs a lesson in how the money is spent


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## Old Skier (Nov 2, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I do not wear a poppy, but my wife and I make an annual contribution to the fund. 
I stopped wearing one when the BBC made it compulsory for presenters to wear them from what seems like mid September.

I am disappointed at the dirty looks I get from collectors etc.
To judge someone because they do not wear a poppy is dreadful in my opinion........what do they know about that individuals thoughts or actions.
		
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Hopefully it's an isolated thing. Nobody that I know within the organization would judge a giver or a receiver. Thanks for your contribution .


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## Old Skier (Nov 2, 2015)

Ethan said:



			Naturally the rabid right has piled onto McClean. They have completely missed the point .
		
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Unfortunately McClean missed the point and gave the rabid right an excuse to pile in. Unfortunate but that's life.


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## chippa1909 (Nov 2, 2015)

Wear a poppy, or don't, it's entirely up to the individual.
I don't think the millions of soldiers died so sanctimonious
individuals can witter on about it on social media or in the press.
I'll still wear a poppy this year, but if I see any more pictures of kids with "future soldier" tee shirts on promoting poppies, it'll be my last.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 2, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			The man needs a lesson in how the money is spent
		
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The more I read about Mr Corbyn the more I think he really is out of touch with the average Joe.


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## Three (Nov 2, 2015)

Fish said:



			:rant: 

Certain individuals in the public eye not wearing a Poppy is really getting my goat!  Stupid excuses like 'I don't agree with war' or 'the British army persecuted the people in my country', it's a symbol of remembrance ffs, nobody wants to go to war, it doesn't represent one side, it doesn't even just represent the military deaths in conflict, it's the bigger picture which so far even Sergio Aguero can fathom out.  

It's narrow minded individuals in a position of power with a one vision mindset that generally lead to conflict, so you're more closely matched than you probably think! 

Everyone knows someone, who knows someone affected by war, so wear it for them. 

Freedom of speech is a blessing however naivety is stupidity &#8234;

So those refusing to wear the poppy do so as a political statement...proving that they are ignorant of the feeling of the majority of the nation and are only interested in publicising themselves or their own political beliefs...totally blind to the fact that those which the poppy represent gave their lives so that these self serving individuals can do just that.....
  :rant:
		
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Fish, as an Englishman and ex RN, I'll always wear one when I can get hold of one abroad. 

But I really don't care what other people want to do, the whole idea of our society as I see it is that everyone has a choice and we don't enforce our beliefs, unlike oppressive religions and all  Islamic countries. 

I haven't read any other posts in this thread and won't be, so no idea who I agree with or otherwise.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			The more I read about Mr Corbyn the more I think he really is out of touch with the average Joe.
		
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Also disappointing to see the Prime Minister having a Poppy photoshopped on to an old photograph that was released today and quickly taken down once it was spotted.


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## Dellboy (Nov 2, 2015)

When I was young I didn't wear one but that changed in the mid 90's.

Between 1995-1998 I took 3 yrs off from painting to obtain my PSV license and they got a got driving around the UK and Europe. 

Got to do some cracking tours in the south of Europe but 3 tours that will stay with me for many a year were taking some D-Day Veterans along to the Normandy beach's.

Tours were 4 days each and I had the honour of walking beach's with them and listening to the sad but sometime funny story's. 

One chap was telling me how he ran from the landing craft up the beach with, he said 20-25 others, total distance 40-50 yrs, he was the only one who made it unharmed. 6 others were alive but badly hurt. He could still recall all of the name of his fallen comrades and visits the beach to say sorry to them every year.

I said to him that I understand why he comes here but why does he feels he has to say sorry to his comrades ,he told me, with tears in his eyes ( to be honest by this time he wasn't the only one ) because he left them there and couldn't help them and he will never forgive himself for doing so and leaving them.

That was just one of many story's told but can say with hand of heart, not one of them didn't have me with tears in my eyes.

It was a great honour just to be with these fine and brave men and I for one will always remember.

So I will remember and wear my poppy with pride as I have done ever since.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I do not wear a poppy, but my wife and I make an annual contribution to the fund. 
I stopped wearing one when the BBC made it compulsory for presenters to wear them from what seems like mid September.

I am disappointed at the dirty looks I get from collectors etc.
To judge someone because they do not wear a poppy is dreadful in my opinion........what do they know about that individuals thoughts or actions.
		
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Saturday afternoon I walked down Buchanan Street from The Buchanan Centre to George Square - I must have passed a dozen poppy sellers in that short maybe third of a mile.  I wasn't wearing a poppy - I didn't buy a poppy; but with their presence I reflected on sacrifice and loss and so popped into St George's Tron church for a coffee and some peace and time for thought and prayer.  Who is anyone to look at me and say that I am disrespectful for not wearing a poppy; and I most certainly don't need the approval I might get from others - stated or otherwise - that I might get from wearing a poppy.  It's not about me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Saturday afternoon I walked down Buchanan Street from The Buchanan Centre to George Square - I must have passed a dozen poppy sellers in that short maybe third of a mile.  I wasn't wearing a poppy - I didn't buy a poppy; but with their presence I reflected on sacrifice and loss and so popped into St George's Tron church for a coffee and some peace and time for thought and prayer.  *Who is anyone to look at me and say that I am disrespectful for not wearing a poppy; and I most certainly don't need the approval I might get from others - stated or otherwise - that I might get from wearing a poppy.  *It's not about me.
		
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Has someone actually done that ?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Has someone actually done that ?
		
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I have no idea - I cannot read peoples minds and so don't project what they might be thinking.  But if no-one is bothered (which would be marvellous) then what is the fuss about folk NOT wearing a poppy all about. Am I being told to wear a poppy as it is disrespectful to not wear one - or am I not.  If I choose to not wear a poppy is that being disrespectful - or is it not.  Sorry.  Confused.  I will wear one at church on Remembrance Sunday.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I have no idea - I cannot read peoples minds and so don't project what they might be thinking.  But if no-one is bothered (which would be marvellous) then what is the fuss about folk NOT wearing a poppy all about. Am I being told to wear a poppy as it is disrespectful to not wear one - or am I not.  If I choose to not wear a poppy is that being disrespectful - or is it not.  Sorry.  Confused.  I will wear one at church on Remembrance Sunday.
		
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I believe the fuss isn't about no wearing a poppy it's more about the public declaration of not wearing one and the reasons they give and turning it into a political symbol 

I very much doubt anyone would judge you personally for not wearing one - haven't recalled anyone tell you that you must wear one or that you are disrespectful if you don't wear one


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe the fuss isn't about no wearing a poppy it's more about the public declaration of not wearing one and the reasons they give and turning it into a political symbol 

I very much doubt anyone would judge you personally for not wearing one - haven't recalled anyone tell you that you must wear one or that you are disrespectful if you don't wear one
		
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OK - that's good.  See how the 'chinese whispers' effect can warp a message ever so subtly but sometimes significantly 

On your main point I tend not to worry too much about what others might say about their not wearing of a poppy.  I can't effect change in what others think (unless possibly I can speak with them) - and whilst I might disagree with what they say I just don't let myself get annoyed or irritated.  There are other things that upset me that I *can *do something about and so direct my efforts in helping where I actually can make a difference.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2015)

Dellboy said:



			When I was young I didn't wear one but that changed in the mid 90's.

Between 1995-1998 I took 3 yrs off from painting to obtain my PSV license and they got a got driving around the UK and Europe. 

Got to do some cracking tours in the south of Europe but 3 tours that will stay with me for many a year were taking some D-Day Veterans along to the Normandy beach's.

Tours were 4 days each and I had the honour of walking beach's with them and listening to the sad but sometime funny story's. 

One chap was telling me how he ran from the landing craft up the beach with, he said 20-25 others, total distance 40-50 yrs, he was the only one who made it unharmed. 6 others were alive but badly hurt. He could still recall all of the name of his fallen comrades and visits the beach to say sorry to them every year.

I said to him that I understand why he comes here but why does he feels he has to say sorry to his comrades ,he told me, with tears in his eyes ( to be honest by this time he wasn't the only one ) because he left them there and couldn't help them and he will never forgive himself for doing so and leaving them.

That was just one of many story's told but can say with hand of heart, not one of them didn't have me with tears in my eyes.

It was a great honour just to be with these fine and brave men and I for one will always remember.

So I will remember and wear my poppy with pride as I have done ever since.
		
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Fantastic story.


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## User62651 (Nov 4, 2015)

Interesting thread. 
For me I don't give it much thought, probably should but so caught up in work and family life and trying to get by I haven't really considered it much in last 20 yrs tbh. As a youth I did remembrance day events with the Scouts and with my School because that's what you did, carrying flags and laying poppy wreaths etc but since then have not got involved with marking the day or observing a silence in the UK. I did however, in my year out in Oz, very often find myself in the RSL at 6pm where they stand and observe silence daily for fallen servicemen which was a good thing. The RBL here just seems like it for the oldies, never been in. In Oz the RSL is for all ages.

I don't feel any pressure at all to buy or wear a poppy, I see them on tv newsreaders but I haven't noticed the public wearing them much or anyone selling them round here. It just doesn't register with me these days as something I need to think much about.

My association with the poppy is of the military and perhaps that's wrong. As someone who, the older they get, increasingly can't be bothered with the pomp class driven nonsense and glorification of military and the sheer cost of running the military for little apparent gain, being fed media pictures of Prince Harry firing a cannon from a helicopter at Taliban or whatever and being expected to admire that, its largely BS to me and a throwback to empire for a little country who no longer hits with the big boys but whose well-off, traditionalist, upper class element still wants to, whilst much of the country can barely feed itself. Seems all wrong.
I should of course think of the poppy as a means of remembering the fallen common man of WW1 and WW11 in particular who had very little choice in serving and died or were injured/traumatised for it. A huge sacrifice and one I have great admiration and respect for.

The James McLean situation I'm divided on, can see both sides there but should football teams be putting poppies on their shirts, they didn't used to - keep sports and politics separate imo and poppy wearing is clearly political in some parts of UK. If McLean feels that strongly then let him be, he should have the choice and you have to admire his determination at least given the flak he's getting and has had before.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 4, 2015)

maxfli65 said:



			Interesting thread. 
For me I don't give it much thought, probably should but so caught up in work and family life and trying to get by I haven't really considered it much in last 20 yrs tbh. As a youth I did remembrance day events with the Scouts and with my School because that's what you did, carrying flags and laying poppy wreaths etc but since then have not got involved with marking the day or observing a silence in the UK. I did however, in my year out in Oz, very often find myself in the RSL at 6pm where they stand and observe silence daily for fallen servicemen which was a good thing. The RBL here just seems like it for the oldies, never been in. In Oz the RSL is for all ages.

I don't feel any pressure at all to buy or wear a poppy, I see them on tv newsreaders but I haven't noticed the public wearing them much or anyone selling them round here. It just doesn't register with me these days as something I need to think much about.

My association with the poppy is of the military and perhaps that's wrong. As someone who, the older they get, increasingly can't be bothered with the pomp class driven nonsense and glorification of military and the sheer cost of running the military for little apparent gain, being fed media pictures of Prince Harry firing a cannon from a helicopter at Taliban or whatever and being expected to admire that, its largely BS to me and a throwback to empire for a little country who no longer hits with the big boys but whose well-off, traditionalist, upper class element still wants to, whilst much of the country can barely feed itself. Seems all wrong.
I should of course think of the poppy as a means of remembering the fallen common man of WW1 and WW11 in particular who had very little choice in serving and died or were injured/traumatised for it. A huge sacrifice and one I have great admiration and respect for.

The James McLean situation I'm divided on, can see both sides there but should football teams be putting poppies on their shirts, they didn't used to - keep sports and politics separate imo and poppy wearing is clearly political in some parts of UK. If McLean feels that strongly then let him be, he should have the choice and you have to admire his determination at least given the flak he's getting and has had before.
		
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A lot of fair points and honesty which I respect and is nice to see, one point on the Military and what the Poppy means, there has only been 1 year since the second World War that we have not lost a service person on active service, the Army with cut backs after cut backs would fit into Wembley Stadium. Judging the glorification of it against 1 man is grossly unfair in my opinion to the rest of the men and women who serve and protect this country on a daily basis.
Let's also not forget the RBL look after the Civilians who served, and the families of those who supported the Servicemen and women, 
It is not only the 1st and 2nd World Wars were the common man had very little choice, you may argue conscription finished in the late 50's and since then anyone has served has made a choice, maybe I can or cannot disagree, but that argument can be used for 99% of life.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 5, 2015)

This is from the Royal British Legions own website....

***
Why is the poppy red?

The poppy is red because of the natural colour of field poppies. It is NOT red to reflect the colour of blood. The poppy is a humble, neutral and universal symbol of Remembrance and hope.
______________________________________

The right way to wear a poppy

There is no right or wrong way to wear a poppy. It is a matter of personal choice whether an individual chooses to wear a poppy and also how they choose to wear it. The best way wear a poppy, is to wear it with pride.
______________________________________

When to wear a poppy

The correct time to wear a poppy is whenever you wish to show your support for the British Armed Forces past and present. Traditionally, the Poppy Appeal runs for the two weeks leading up to Armistice Day or Remembrance Sunday, whichever is later.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 5, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is from the Royal British Legions own website....

***
Why is the poppy red?

The poppy is red because of the natural colour of field poppies. It is NOT red to reflect the colour of blood. The poppy is a humble, neutral and universal symbol of Remembrance and hope.
______________________________________

The right way to wear a poppy

There is no right or wrong way to wear a poppy. It is a matter of personal choice whether an individual chooses to wear a poppy and also how they choose to wear it. The best way wear a poppy, is to wear it with pride.
______________________________________

When to wear a poppy

The correct time to wear a poppy is whenever you wish to show your support for the British Armed Forces past and present. Traditionally, the Poppy Appeal runs for the two weeks leading up to Armistice Day or Remembrance Sunday, whichever is later.
		
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I mentioned to the wife about people wearing a poppy too early and she said 'would you have noticed if it had been the Macmillan primrose'. Good point.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 5, 2015)

I don't mind at all whether people do or do not wear a poppy. It should be entirely up to the person in question.

I dislike the way people come out and justify not wearing one from some kind of political standpoint. Some do this from a self serving perspective, others do it because they feel they have to justify not wearing one.

The only thing that I'm absolutely certain of is that the poppy shouldn't be turned into something to argue about. James McLean doesn't want to wear one, that's his choice. He only has to explain himself because others use the poppy as a tool with which to judge him. If he were going on an anti-poppy tour of the country, that would be very different.

People should spend a lot less time worrying about other people and focus on themselves and being the person they want to be, not trying to inflict their own views on others.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2015)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I don't mind at all whether people do or do not wear a poppy. It should be entirely up to the person in question.

I dislike the way people come out and justify not wearing one from some kind of political standpoint. Some do this from a self serving perspective, others do it because they feel they have to justify not wearing one.

The only thing that I'm absolutely certain of is that the poppy shouldn't be turned into something to argue about. James McLean doesn't want to wear one, that's his choice. He only has to explain himself because others use the poppy as a tool with which to judge him. *If he were going on an anti-poppy tour of the country*, that would be very different.

*People should spend a lot less time worrying about other people and focus on themselves and being the person they want to be, not trying to inflict their own views on others*.
		
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If WBA play 3 games during this period around the Country and he's the only one not wearing one, it does stand out.

It's not about inflicting views on each other, surely it's a discussion and actual understanding other views, whether you agree or not, isn't that what education and tolerance is about, if we don't, we risk slipping into ignorance and a lack of understanding.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 5, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			If WBA play 3 games during this period around the Country and he's the only one not wearing one, it does stand out.

It's not about inflicting views on each other, surely it's a discussion and actual understanding other views, whether you agree or not, isn't that what education and tolerance is about, if we don't, we risk slipping into ignorance and a lack of understanding.
		
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It stands out because all the other players have it on their shirts, yes, but why is it on their shirts at all? 

Fine if they actively choose to wear it, but it just being on their shirts because the shirt maker has put it on there isn't an act of respect. They might want to wear one, equally they might just be apathetic. I'm sure a vast number of people wear one because they think they should be seen to be wearing one and might actually be apathetic about what it stands for. That's not an act of respect.

McLean is branded disrespectful for not wearing one - but in of itself, that's not really a disrespectful act. It should be up to him whether he wears one or not, but clearly others don't think that to be the case. He only has to justify his decision not to because others are judging him. So in my mind, that is inflicting their view of the world on him. From his note to Dave Whelan, I would say he does understand where other people are coming from, and whether you agree with him or not, his view should also be respected. He is not saying that other people should not wear the poppy, or that the poppy is a bad thing, he just doesn't want to wear one, and that should be his choice and his choice alone.


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## Old Skier (Nov 5, 2015)

Canary_Yellow said:



			It stands out because all the other players have it on their shirts, yes, but why is it on their shirts at all? 
.
		
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Because the shirts are auctioned off to fans with all proceeds going to the Royal British Legion.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 5, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Because the shirts are auctioned off to fans with all proceeds going to the Royal British Legion.
		
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The poppy isn't actually a crucial part of that though. James McLean's shirt could still be auctioned.


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## davidy233 (Nov 5, 2015)

I photographed a top division match in Scotland last season at this time of year where every player (including a German player) except one had a poppy on their shirt - nobody made an issue of it.


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## Old Skier (Nov 5, 2015)

Canary_Yellow said:



			The poppy isn't actually a crucial part of that though. James McLean's shirt could still be auctioned.
		
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As long as the money goes to TRBL I don't care if it has a poppy on or not. Football clubs do a great deal for charities through the year and it just happens at this time of the year they choose to raise money for TRBL.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2015)

The Premier League made the decision that they would support the Poppy Appeal and all teams were to have a Poppy on their shirts for the two week period upto Remembrance Sunday.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			The Premier League made the decision that they would support the Poppy Appeal and all teams were to have a Poppy on their shirts for the two week period upto Remembrance Sunday.
		
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If that's the case and I'm not doubting you, do those that choose not to have one get into any sort of trouble with the PL or does the club. Just curious if the league have made the decision and not left it to clubs/players


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If that's the case and I'm not doubting you, do those that choose not to have one get into any sort of trouble with the PL or does the club. Just curious if the league have made the decision and not left it to clubs/players
		
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It's not about punishing anyone, it was to show support and raise awareness, McLean's decision is between him and the club.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2015)

Canary_Yellow said:



			The poppy isn't actually a crucial part of that though. James McLean's shirt could still be auctioned.
		
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The poppy actually makes that shirt pretty unique, so whilst McLean's shirt could be auctioned off its value will be greatly diminished in comparison.


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## Old Skier (Nov 6, 2015)

And for those that actually go to matches you may see at this time of year the lucky winners wearing them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			It's not about punishing anyone, it was to show support and raise awareness, McLean's decision is between him and the club.
		
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I didn't assume the player per se would get punished but wondered if the PL do voice their disapproval and while I understand it is a purely individual decision, whether the club feels any pressure to "persuade" their players to wear the shirt.


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## Old Skier (Nov 6, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I didn't assume the player per se would get punished but wondered if the PL do voice their disapproval and while I understand it is a purely individual decision, whether the club feels any pressure to "persuade" their players to wear the shirt.
		
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Highly unlikely and as it has been said throughout this thread it's not something anyone would be forced to do so I am unsure (I hope) what your motive is on pursuing the matter.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2015)

I'll probably buy one today.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Highly unlikely and as it has been said throughout this thread it's not something anyone would be forced to do so I am unsure (I hope) what your motive is on pursuing the matter.
		
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I have no motive (and getting bored of all the between the lines suspicion). It was simply a question as I didn't know (and that's how you learn) whether because it is a PL initiative they do on behalf of the British Legion whether there any degree of pressure on both club and players. I'm not arguing against anyone's right to not wear one if they don't want to. It was just a simple question born from the comment earlier that he (the non-wearer) will stand out in team pictures etc and so asked how much the club may "try" and get him to change. No hidden agenda. No motive


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I have no motive (and getting bored of all the between the lines suspicion). It was simply a question as I didn't know (and that's how you learn) whether because it is a PL initiative they do on behalf of the British Legion whether there any degree of pressure on both club and players. I'm not arguing against anyone's right to not wear one if they don't want to. It was just a simple question born from the comment earlier that he (the non-wearer) will stand out in team pictures etc and so asked how much the club may "try" and get him to change. No hidden agenda. No motive
		
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To put it to bed, He first refused to wear ashirt a few years ago whilst he was playing for Sunderland, apparently there was some backlash at the time as he only refused when the shirts were produced just before the game (don't know if he/they new in advance) once it hit the press the club came under a lot of stick from fans and in the local papers. at the next game, first was away, Sunderland, as they do every year, had a military contingent lay a wreath in the centre circle and both teams and fans observe a 2 minute silence, Mclean did this, this led to another backlash asking why he can pay that respect but not wear the poppy.
SInce then he has played for another 2 clubs, Wigan and WBA, both were aware of his stance prior to signing him and it didn't stop them, It was believed Wigan were going to make a stance with him and this led to his letter. He has always been honest and upfront, whether we agree or disagree with his stance.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			It's not about punishing anyone, it was to show support and raise awareness, McLean's decision is between him and the club.
		
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It's actually publicly available;

http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx


Republic of Ireland international James McClean explains poppy stance.
Wigan Athleticâ€™s Republic of Ireland international winger James McClean will not be wearing a poppy shirt tonight alongside the rest of his Wigan Athletic team mates, as the club takes part in footballâ€™s annual Remembrance Day commemoration. 

This is a personal decision by James, who explained his position in a letter to Latics Chairman Dave Whelan before the two met face to face to discuss the issue this week. 

Following the meeting, Mr Whelan accepted Jamesâ€™ decision and it is both their wish that the letter is published here in full, alongside this statement.  There will be no further comment on this issue by the club.

[HR][/HR]
_Dear Mr Whelan 

I wanted to write to you before talking about this face to face and explain my reasons for not wearing a poppy on my shirt for the game at Bolton. 

I have complete respect for those who fought and died in both World Wars - many I know were Irish-born. I have been told that your own Grandfather Paddy Whelan, from Tipperary, was one of those. 

I mourn their deaths like every other decent person and if the Poppy was a symbol only for the lost souls of World War I and II I would wear one. 

I want to make that 100% clear .You must understand this. 

But the Poppy is used to remember victims of other conflicts since 1945 and this is where the problem starts for me. 

For people from the North of Ireland such as myself, and specifically those in Derry, scene of the 1972 Bloody Sunday massacre, the poppy has come to mean something very different. Please understand, Mr Whelan, that when you come from Creggan like myself or the Bogside, Brandywell or the majority of places in Derry, every person still lives in the shadow of one of the darkest days in Irelandâ€™s history â€“ even if like me you were born nearly 20 years after the event. It is just a part of who we are, ingrained into us from birth. 

Mr Whelan, for me to wear a poppy would be as much a gesture of disrespect for the innocent people who lost their lives in the Troubles â€“ and Bloody Sunday especially - as I have in the past been accused of disrespecting the victims of WWI and WWII. 

It would be seen as an act of disrespect to those people; to my people. 

I am not a war monger, or anti-British, or a terrorist or any of the accusations levelled at me in the past. I am a peaceful guy, I believe everyone should live side by side, whatever their religious or political beliefs which I respect and ask for people to respect mine in return. Since last year, I am a father and I want my daughter to grow up in a peaceful world, like any parent. 

I am very proud of where I come from and I just cannot do something that I believe is wrong. In life, if youâ€™re a man you should stand up for what you believe in. 

I know you may not agree with my feelings but I hope very much that you understand my reasons. 

As the owner of the club I am proud to play for, I believe I owe both you and the clubâ€™s supporters this explanation. 

Yours sincerely, 

James McClean_


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 6, 2015)

Seen the letter mate, As I put the decision was between him and the Club, Which the Chairman accepted. My answer was in relation to any punishment by PL


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Seen the letter mate, As I put the decision was between him and the Club, Which the Chairman accepted. My answer was in relation to any punishment by PL
		
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Wasn't suggesting you didn't know, your post just seemed to me to suggest that it was shrouded in some degree of mystery so was surprised to find it so readily available.  Fair play to him, it can't be easy to stand up to the weight of public opinion on this one.


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