# Hard compact sand.......



## Junior (Nov 5, 2018)

So Saturday saw my ropey bunker play become even ropier...... had two instances of 'winter sand'.  You know where its a pretty hard flat lie.   I tried to dig one our and got it well too fat and left it in, then tried to 'pick' the next one off the top and semi-thinned it 30 yards across the green.  

How do you play the shot from a 'Winter bunker' lie???


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## patricks148 (Nov 5, 2018)

when i was a member at a parkland course with bunkers with hardly any sand and little or no lip i just chipped out with club with little bounce.


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## Curls (Nov 5, 2018)

patricks148 said:



			when i was a member at a parkland course with bunkers with hardly any sand and little or no lip i just chipped out with club with little bounce.
		
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Yeah that would be my tactic also but if there's a lip you're toast. It's better to be very aggressive, attack steeply and drive the club into the lining, it's the only way you'll splash it out; but it's an aquired skill and you have to be prepared for the impact.


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## turkish (Nov 5, 2018)

I think itâ€™s something you just need to accept for winter golf. If itâ€™s below the sand I attack steeply and aggressively an inch behind ball, if itâ€™s sitting up I still try hitting an inch behind but less steep and try to take less sand but a slower swing


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## Lump (Nov 5, 2018)

Need to play them more with leading edge than bounce.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2018)

Just put my 58 degree Ping Gorge thin sole in the bag for wet winter bunkers. I like to open it up and as there isn't a huge bounce it really seems to work, taking a smaller, shallow divot. Was very pleased with it this weekend and just needs an hour or so to get back to grips with how much I can manipulate it. I was using a wide sole version and struggled last week in wet sand. Ping do a standard sole and I do have a set of original Glide wedges that I can use if the thin sole doesn't pan out. It's about having options for me so I don't have to change technique at all


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## garyinderry (Nov 6, 2018)

I deloft to try and dig. 

I have accepted i may not have the control i would have from a good dry bunker in the summer.


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## jim8flog (Nov 6, 2018)

As already said use a club with very little bounce but play a normal bunker shot, point of entry in the sand normally a bit closer to the ball than with fluffy sand. The lack of bounce allows the club to dig in to the sand.

I go to my 52/08 instead of my 56/14.

Also allow for more back spin than a 'normal' bunker shot.


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## Huwey12 (Nov 9, 2018)

Lump said:



			Need to play them more with leading edge than bounce.
		
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Totally agree, firmer the sand more the leading edge works


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## garyinderry (Dec 30, 2019)

I've finally worked out how to play these shots.  Been a real Achilles heel for me. We have very heavy sand. Like builders sand if I had to describe it. Like all regular golf clubs, some bunkers have loads and others have very little. We come to learn which ones are dangerously low in sand. 

Anyway. I use high bounce sand and lob wedges. In the past. When I open these I usually end up blading them either into the face or over the green. 

Not any more. How?   Ok, gather round and listen up. 


Ask yourself the question. What do we want to happen?  We want the club to get in under the ball without getting stuck in the sand.  This happens when we get too steep with a square face. 

The trick to this shot is...


Lay the club wide open. 
Even the tiniest bit of shaft lean if you like. 
Lower the hands to point the loft back towards the target. 
This also presents the heel of the club to the ball.
This is the kicker -  fire that heel of the club steeply in under the ball and hold the face open. Literally fire the hosel of the club under the ball. Be brave. 

What happens is the club digs in under the ball. Once it's in there, the sand underneath the ball compacts, hits the sole, bounce, back of the club,whatever you want to call it and immediately kicks the club back out of the sand. 

The result is a high soft landing bunker shot which you can control. You have managed to get a serious amount of loft and back of the club under the ball then the design of the club does the rest. 



I've found a couple of people on YouTube talking about this way of using a wedge.   It's been a game changer for me this last month.  You nearly cant get too steep on it with the club laid open.


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## garyinderry (Dec 30, 2019)

Vokey k grind 60 degree wedge.  Firing the heel in under the ball.  








Without using the heel to cut in under the sand I would normally have bladed the crap out of that shot in the past with the club laid so open.


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## garyinderry (Dec 30, 2019)

7mins 40  in this video Pete Cowan talks about how some play this technique for a plugged lie. Essentially the same thing we want to do on a wet bunker. Get in under the ball.


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## garyinderry (Dec 30, 2019)

30 seconds into this with Luke Donald.  Again talking about getting the ball out of a plugged lie using the heel of the club.


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## garyinderry (Dec 30, 2019)

Last one.  Rory  3mins 35.     "Just dig the heel in"








These guys know.


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## Fish (Dec 31, 2019)

All these antidotes are great when you're in these shallow scrapes you call bunkers, try using them with success when you’re in some on the Hotchkin and are that far down you come out speaking with an Ozzy accent 😳


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## patricks148 (Dec 31, 2019)

Fish said:



			All these antidotes are great when you're in these shallow scrapes you call bunkers, try using them with success when you’re in some on the Hotchkin and are that far down you come out speaking with an Ozzy accent 😳
		
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TBF though you are unlikely to get compacted sand in a links style pot bunker or heathland type... unless its been very very wet anyway


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Dec 31, 2019)

Junior said:



			So Saturday saw my ropey bunker play become even ropier...... had two instances of 'winter sand'.  You know where its a pretty hard flat lie.   I tried to dig one our and got it well too fat and left it in, then tried to 'pick' the next one off the top and semi-thinned it 30 yards across the green. 

How do you play the shot from a 'Winter bunker' lie???
		
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Winter is for playing cards and drinking single malt Scotch in the clubhouse.


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## garyinderry (Jan 1, 2020)

Anyone give this a go yet?

Played a round at our local links but no bunker shots required. 


Get in the practice bunker and try it.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 1, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			I've finally worked out how to play these shots.  Been a real Achilles heel for me. We have very heavy sand. Like builders sand if I had to describe it. Like all regular golf clubs, some bunkers have loads and others have very little. We come to learn which ones are dangerously low in sand. 

Anyway. I use high bounce sand and lob wedges. In the past. When I open these I usually end up blading them either into the face or over the green. 

Not any more. How?   Ok, gather round and listen up. 


Ask yourself the question. What do we want to happen?  We want the club to get in under the ball without getting stuck in the sand.  This happens when we get too steep with a square face. 

The trick to this shot is...


Lay the club wide open. 
Even the tiniest bit of shaft lean if you like. 
Lower the hands to point the loft back towards the target. 
This also presents the heel of the club to the ball.
This is the kicker -  fire that heel of the club steeply in under the ball and hold the face open. Literally fire the hosel of the club under the ball. Be brave. 

What happens is the club digs in under the ball. Once it's in there, the sand underneath the ball compacts, hits the sole, bounce, back of the club,whatever you want to call it and immediately kicks the club back out of the sand. 

The result is a high soft landing bunker shot which you can control. You have managed to get a serious amount of loft and back of the club under the ball then the design of the club does the rest. 



I've found a couple of people on YouTube talking about this way of using a wedge.   It's been a game changer for me this last month.  You nearly cant get too steep on it with the club laid open.
		
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Sounds like what I have worked out.  Stand square and slightly squat stance; club gripped to address ball with club face laid right back and very open; slide-drive the club under the ball and trust in the bounce and the sole of the club to compress sand in front of it, to cause club head to lift upwards and as it comes up the sand above it on which the ball sits also comes up and ball pops out.  Well that’s how I see it happening in my head.  Trust in the bounce of the club.

I didn’t get this until I realised what bounce was and how the sole of a club compresses and interacts with the sand it compresses to bring the the club head out of the sand through the shot.


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## IanM (Jan 2, 2020)

With hard compact sand, lots of loft, not much bounce on the club, and virtually pick it clean... when I was at Bowood the bunkers were mostly like that... got  60 degree sharp edged wedge specifically for it... very good off tight lies too.....rubbish out of sand seaside bunkers!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 2, 2020)

IanM said:



			With hard compact sand, lots of loft, not much bounce on the club, and virtually pick it clean... when I was at Bowood the bunkers were mostly like that... got  60 degree sharp edged wedge specifically for it... very good off tight lies too.....rubbish out of sand seaside bunkers! 

Click to expand...

I switched the the Ping 58 thin sole (Gorge model) specifically for wet compact sand. I've tended to play it conventionally and taking a small divot and its coming out relatively consistently. With a few days of drier weather I might switch back to the standard sole. Funny enough, with all the wet compacted sand, it has found a real flaw in the linear method and I've had to revert a more conventional method.


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## Ye Olde Boomer (Jan 2, 2020)

Somebody used to make a wedge called the "Black Widow" that had negative bounce. You could almost shave with it.  Good for lobbing from paved cart paths.  Or the parking lot (car park?) for that matter.
https://www.ebay.com/p/1633195450?i...MI0PuY0svl5gIVFGyGCh1LDApwEAQYAiABEgLsXfD_BwE


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## garyinderry (Jan 2, 2020)

Ye Olde Boomer said:



			Somebody used to make a wedge called the "Black Widow" that had negative bounce. You could almost shave with it.  Good for lobbing from paved cart paths.  Or the parking lot (car park?) for that matter.
https://www.ebay.com/p/1633195450?i...MI0PuY0svl5gIVFGyGCh1LDApwEAQYAiABEgLsXfD_BwE

Click to expand...


What a crazy club.   I'd love a go with it all the same.  


May have to buy one at some stage in the name of science.  Haha


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## Jacko_G (Jan 7, 2020)

Grip it and rip it. 

JD style.


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## garyinderry (Jan 12, 2020)

Played a bunker shot today from a completely compacted bunker.  Laid the club open and hit steeply into the sand with the heel. Technique worked to perfection as I put the ball to tap in range from about 20yards. 



Has anyone given this a go yet?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			Played a bunker shot today from a completely compacted bunker.  Laid the club open and hit steeply into the sand with the heel. Technique worked to perfection as I put the ball to tap in range from about 20yards.



Has anyone given this a go yet?
		
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I was hoping to but the bunkers have not only dried, but the green staff have gone round and broken up the compacted sand in all the bunkers and in most increased the depth of sand marginally. I was using a Ping thin sole as per post #21 but now gone back to the Standard (SS) to utilise more bounce. I watched the videos and the technique makes sense. If we get more downpours (likely) and the sand compacts I'll definitely get in the practice bunker and give it a go


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## garyinderry (Feb 14, 2022)

Heres a good video showing how to play from hard packed bunkers.  This one is bone dry but the same technique works on our wet winter bunkers. 


__
		http://instagr.am/p/CWjZUgBvyuK/


Been doing this for 2 years now. Gone from being an inconsistent sand player to someone who's fairly comfortable hitting most bunker shots.


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## Jason.H (Feb 15, 2022)

I had a bare mud lie Saturday so a little different but I had to go high to a near pin. I remembered and often use one o Seve,s tips to play a bunker shot. Literally opened the face  and dropped steep in behind maybe an inch, the ball the shot up high and landed just as expected. This works out of bad rough also. It’s a go to shot for me.


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