# Please tell me I haven't made this up.....tree roots



## Liverbirdie (May 1, 2013)

I was at a handicap meeting tonight, and I brought up the subject of exposed tree roots on our 14/15/16th holes. 

Now I'm sure I have played another course were you were allowed free relief if your ball was lying near to exposed tree roots.Maybe it's just certain trees, maybe it's only when they get to a certain age, but these roots can be dangerous, as if your ball lies next to them you could break your hand on the downswing or follow through.

So have you ever played a course where a local rule applies, even if only on certain holes, with regards to exposed tree roots?

Ok, just me then.....


----------



## Five&One (May 1, 2013)

You can declare it unplayable and take a penalty drop. Local rule not possible.


----------



## garyinderry (May 1, 2013)

never heard of that LB !    it was slow out there tonight. I played 1-7 then the first 3 twice.


----------



## fundy (May 1, 2013)

thats when you want a bag of rabbit droppings with you


----------



## HawkeyeMS (May 1, 2013)

Five&One said:



			You can declare it unplayable and take a penalty drop. Local rule not possible.
		
Click to expand...

Would be my interpretation. After all, you wouldn't get relief if you ball was lying up against the trunk so why should the roots be any different? Just don't hit it in the trees.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (May 1, 2013)

fundy said:



			thats when you want a bag of rabbit droppings with you 

Click to expand...

I note the winky smiley but they wouldn't help as you would only get relief from a rabbit scraping if here was nothing else, from which you aren't entitled to free relief, impeding your swing. In this case, the root would be impeding the the swing so the rabbit scrapings would be irrelevant.


----------



## fundy (May 1, 2013)

very tongue in cheek sir  as you say the smiley was key


----------



## Andy808 (May 1, 2013)

I have no problem with exposed tree roots, we have several areas on the course afflicted with this, as I can choose a shot or take a penalty. What I do have a problem with is the tree roots that are just under the surface that you can't see or even know they are there. I have hit a few with one bent shaft and a sprained wrist for my troubles.


----------



## pbrown7582 (May 2, 2013)

sounds like a rather oddball local rule, sure rory would of liked it to be in place last year... :lol:


----------



## chrisd (May 2, 2013)

No chance of free relief!

We have given out a warning for players to be mindful of tree roots and the possibility of injury


----------



## USER1999 (May 2, 2013)

What we need is more signs on the golf course. Big orange ones, with flashing lights, warning of the dangers. Most especially, dangers you can't see, like hidden tree roots, and buried stones. These signs could be placed every 3 yards, slap bang in the middle of the fairway. I'm sure we could play round them, no problems.


----------



## MashieNiblick (May 2, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			What we need is more signs on the golf course. Big orange ones, with flashing lights, warning of the dangers. Most especially, dangers you can't see, like hidden tree roots, and buried stones. These signs could be placed every 3 yards, slap bang in the middle of the fairway. I'm sure we could play round them, no problems.
		
Click to expand...

And then of course you'd need signs to warn you about the signs.


----------



## Sweep (May 2, 2013)

There is not a rule in place to my knowledge, other than a penalty drop after declaring unplayable. However, I think there should be a rule, similar to where you have standing water and you can drop with the agreement of your playing partners. A tree root can cause serious injury.


----------



## USER1999 (May 2, 2013)

Then don't take the shot. Take a penalty drop. You have the option.


----------



## Bratty (May 2, 2013)

There is a point to this other: I was out on the course on a playing lesson with my pro, and on par 5 5th, I smashed a driver up the right with a hint of draw to bring it back to middle. Left with 215 uphill, I proceeded to hit my 17deg hybrid arrow straight which bounced short of the green but smack on the line of the pin.

Pro was amazed (I never it like that normally!) and thought it could be in the hole, it was that "on target". We reach the green, and there's no sign of it. He's smiling, and I'm saying it's through the back. Which it was. Right up against a tree! I mean touching the trunk and in the roots. No shot at all.

If that had a been a comp I would have been livid, but I would not expect a free drop. Them's the breaks!

To put a local rule in would seem very strange for tree roots. Take a penalty drop and move on. Unless of course it's a staked tree, but even then, check local rules.


----------



## duncan mackie (May 2, 2013)

Liverbirdie said:



			..... these roots can be dangerous, as if your ball lies next to them you could break your hand on the downswing or follow through.
		
Click to expand...

fortunately the rules respect this situation and 
(1) you aren't forced to play the ball as it lies as people have already pointed out, for only 1 penalty shot you have a lot of options open to you. 
(2) you are permitted to probe the ground in the vicinity of your ball if you believe there may be roots that could cause injury (eg using a tee peg or divot repairer) but this has to be done carefully and you cannot improve the lie of the ball when doing this.


----------



## mikee247 (May 2, 2013)

Blimey we will be asking for free relief from water hazards soon in case of drowning! Trees are a big part of the game dont hit them near them and you dont have a problem.....Penalty drop of course but nowt else in my opinion...


----------



## bladeplayer (May 2, 2013)

Guess you just made it up then LB :rofl:


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 2, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Guess you just made it up then LB :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Looks like - it wasn't a post to say, should you be able to get them, but that I thought I had played a course where it was a local rule on certain holes.

Some people haven't read it this way though, obviously.........

Thanks for the upshot though. After trawling the interweb I did see these though:-

When there are embedded stones or exposed rocks on any part of a â€œClosely mown areaâ€ the Committee may, for safety reasons, declare them to be _ground under repair_. 
The _Committee_ may introduce a Local Rule which states that exposed tree roots on a â€œClosely mown areaâ€ are deemed to be _ground under repair_. When there are only a few exposed tree roots on one or two holes, the Local Rule "Preferred lies" is recommended- click to link
*Note* that the _Committee_ may, under Rule 25-1a Note, deem that interference with a playerâ€™s _stance_ is  not to be, of itself, interference under this Rule_.
_
Q. I'm a WSNGA member and have a question on local rules as opposed to USGA rules. The course I play every week has a rule printed on the scorecard that says, "No one should hit a ball off the tree roots on the course and it is a free drop without penalty." Does that mean everyone must adhere to this rule if they are playing in league play under USGA rules. In other words, do we have to follow this course local rule instead of playing by USGA rules? -- Geri DeMarco
A. Geri, if you are playing by USGA rules you do not have to adhere to this rule on the back of the course scorecard. A rule of golf must not be waived by a local rule. However, if a committee considers that local abnormal conditions interfere with the proper playing of the game to the extent that it is necessary to make a local rule that modifies the Rules of Golf, the local rule must be authorized by the USGA. Decision 33-8/8 in the Decision on the Rules of Golf states: May a committee make a local rule providing relief without penalty if a player's stroke is interfered with by exposed tree roots? The answer is no. A local rule is authorized only if an abnormal condition exists. The existence of exposed tree roots is not abnormal.


----------



## spawn_ukuk (May 3, 2013)

On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing


----------



## Sweep (May 3, 2013)

mikee247 said:



			Blimey we will be asking for free relief from water hazards soon in case of drowning! Trees are a big part of the game dont hit them near them and you dont have a problem.....Penalty drop of course but nowt else in my opinion... 

Click to expand...

I agree that you should play the ball as it lies and I have no problem with taking the penalty. What I was saying is that it seems strange that you can ask for relief from standing water but not from a tree root. A tree root can cause serious injury. Standing water may get mud in your eye or at worst you might catch a cold . Why not just take a penalty drop for standing water? Stones in bunkers were deemed dangerous as was lightening and these were all taken care of under the rules.


----------



## MashieNiblick (May 3, 2013)

spawn_ukuk said:



			On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing
		
Click to expand...

Interesting in the light of Liverbirdie's post referring to Decision 33-8/8 - Local Rule Providing Relief from Tree Roots, which is also on the R&A site, which says that such a local rule is not permissable.

If the roots are exposed surely it is common sense to adapt your choice of shot accordingly. You are not entitled to play a particular shot. Even if the roots aren't visiible, it is a reasonable assumption that there might be roots under surface if you are near a tree. 

So either play something safe like a little bunt with a mid iron or take a penalty drop. People can't just assume they should be able to play normally and risk hitting the roots.


----------



## USER1999 (May 3, 2013)

Sweep said:



			I agree that you should play the ball as it lies and I have no problem with taking the penalty. What I was saying is that it seems strange that you can ask for relief from standing water but not from a tree root. A tree root can cause serious injury. Standing water may get mud in your eye or at worst you might catch a cold . Why not just take a penalty drop for standing water? Stones in bunkers were deemed dangerous as was lightening and these were all taken care of under the rules.
		
Click to expand...


Standing water is an abnormal ground condition. Roots are permanent.


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 3, 2013)

spawn_ukuk said:



			On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing
		
Click to expand...

Huzzah - I'm not mad. 

It seems it's against the rules though, even if a local rule.


----------



## duncan mackie (May 3, 2013)

Liverbirdie said:



			Huzzah - I'm not mad. 

It seems it's against the rules though, even if a local rule.
		
Click to expand...

you need to read the quotes you included in your previous post again.......


----------



## Liverbirdie (May 3, 2013)

duncan mackie said:



			you need to read the quotes you included in your previous post again.......
		
Click to expand...

I was going from this by Spawn, in his post:-

On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing


----------



## Sweep (May 3, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			Standing water is an abnormal ground condition. Roots are permanent.
		
Click to expand...

I know.


----------



## spawn_ukuk (May 3, 2013)

I think common sense has to prevail here, exposed tree roots are not going anywhere and we aint pros, dam even the pros cant hit it straight regularly.

I think local which will at least help to prevent injuries is a good thing, as i said in a previous Ive seen people really hurt them self's because they didn't want to move the ball from a exposed root

Yes you can quote rules and that, but common sense has to be the winner here


----------



## HawkeyeMS (May 3, 2013)

spawn_ukuk said:



			I think common sense has to prevail here, exposed tree roots are not going anywhere and we aint pros, dam even the pros cant hit it straight regularly.

I think local which will at least help to prevent injuries is a good thing, as i said in a previous Ive seen people really hurt them self's because they didn't want to move the ball from a exposed root

Yes you can quote rules and that, but common sense has to be the winner here
		
Click to expand...

I know you don't want the rules quoted but they do cover this exact situation, they allow for a penalty drop. You could injure yourself trying to play a ball too close to the face of a bunker as well. The common sense you speak of is to take the drop and move on. A tree is an obstruction, the root is part of the tree, frankly I don't see the issue.


----------



## Region3 (May 3, 2013)

spawn_ukuk said:



			I think local which will at least help to prevent injuries is a good thing, as i said in a previous Ive seen people really hurt them self's because they didn't want to move the ball from a exposed root

Yes you can quote rules and that, but common sense has to be the winner here
		
Click to expand...

Why didn't they want to move the ball?

It's the common sense of the golfer that refuses to take a penalty if there's a risk of injury that needs questioning.

If you give free relief for tree roots where do you draw the line?
Brick walls edging water hazards.
Bushes with sharp thorns.
Steep slopes.
Fence posts marking OOB.
Railway sleepers in bunkers.


----------



## Region3 (May 3, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I know you don't want the rules quoted but they do cover this exact situation, they allow for a penalty drop. You could injure yourself trying to play a ball too close to the face of a bunker as well. The common sense you speak of is to take the drop and move on. A tree is an obstruction, the root is part of the tree, frankly I don't see the issue.
		
Click to expand...

Beat me to it.


----------



## spawn_ukuk (May 3, 2013)

Hey my local golf course is just a public course, They got a local rule to cover the tree roots, Dont get biting me head off
Some people are not aware of all the rules, id be surprised if anyone is, unless they have a rule book with them


----------



## garyinderry (May 3, 2013)

im one to talk with my mahoosive divots but surely if you suspect that there is a root under the ball and you might get hurt, the sensible thing would be to try and hit it like a fairway bunker shot. just pick the ball clean off the top.


----------



## spawn_ukuk (May 3, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			im one to talk with my mahoosive divots but surely if you suspect that there is a root under the ball and you might get hurt, the sensible thing would be to try and hit it like a fairway bunker shot. just pick the ball clean off the top.
		
Click to expand...

In a perfect world of course yes, when theirs a root underneath close to the surface its not always easy to tell, and kinda sure theirs a rule where you cant test the ground for one, Not sure if i made that up but i heard it some where.

The trees with roots on or close to the surface are kinda grouped together so we can kinda suspect when there might be a risk.
Thats why theirs a local for a free drop, But i might starting taking that drop with a penalty now to a calm a few people down on here


----------



## HawkeyeMS (May 3, 2013)

spawn_ukuk said:



			In a perfect world of course yes, when theirs a root underneath close to the surface its not always easy to tell, and kinda sure theirs a rule where you cant test the ground for one, Not sure if i made that up but i heard it some where.

The trees with roots on or close to the surface are kinda grouped together so we can kinda suspect when there might be a risk.
Thats why theirs a local for a free drop, But i might starting taking that drop with a penalty now to a calm a few people down on here
		
Click to expand...

The problem as I see it arises when the club starts to play qualifying competitions with that local rule in place. Since the local rule is not allowed, anyone who has used it in a comp has signed for an incorrect scorecard and should (unless you can find a Tiger-gate type scenario ) be disqualified. Many if not all handicaps at your club are therefore invalid under CONGU guidelines as the competition doesn't adhere to the rules.


----------



## Region3 (May 3, 2013)

spawn_ukuk said:



			Hey my local golf course is just a public course, They got a local rule to cover the tree roots, Dont get biting me head off
		
Click to expand...




spawn_ukuk said:



			In a perfect world of course yes, when theirs a root underneath close to the surface its not always easy to tell, and kinda sure theirs a rule where you cant test the ground for one, Not sure if i made that up but i heard it some where.

The trees with roots on or close to the surface are kinda grouped together so we can kinda suspect when there might be a risk.
Thats why theirs a local for a free drop, But i might starting taking that drop with a penalty now to a calm a few people down on here
		
Click to expand...

No-one's biting your head off, just struggling to understand why anyone would endanger themselves rather than take a penalty drop. Not your specific case as there appears to be a rule to cover it for you, but for other people where the choice is play it as it lies or take a penalty.
I've played shots before where I know the club is going to smack a tree after I hit the ball, but if it were my hands that were going to hit the tree hard I'd be chipping out.

It almost reads like some think the club are responsible for any injuries incurred if there's isn't free relief available, for forcing them to play a dangerous shot.

I also vaguely remember reading a rule where you can test for rocks/roots just beneath the surface if you think there may be something there, provided that you don't affect your lie, stance, or line of intended swing.


----------



## duncan mackie (May 3, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The problem as I see it arises when the club starts to play qualifying competitions with that local rule in place. Since the local rule is not allowed, anyone who has used it in a comp has signed for an incorrect scorecard and should (unless you can find a Tiger-gate type scenario ) be disqualified. Many if not all handicaps at your club are therefore invalid under CONGU guidelines as the competition doesn't adhere to the rules.
		
Click to expand...

let's keep this in context - if those tree rots were on closely mown areas, or relief from them on those 3 holes was restricted to closely mown areas, then the LR would theoretically be fine.

the other part of the context is that a huge number of courses have 'illegal' LRs, including very old ones that run big events (which don't use them but that's another matter). Look at Princes Golf Club scorecard LRs as a good example.


----------



## Mungoscorner (May 3, 2013)

It seems that a lot of people are making the assumption that if your ball is sitting on, or near to exposed tree roots,then you are obviously in the clag miles from the fairway ?
When you consider that most trees will have a root system equal in size to the branch system,then obviously large trees will have roots that extend quite a distance from the trunk.I've been a member of several clubs,and i've played numerous others where large trees are to be found within a few yards of the fairway, so it stands to reason that the roots of said trees may extend as far as the fairway.
Why then should somebody have to risk injury,or take a penalty drop if there ball is on the fairway ?
Good post Liverbirdie.


----------



## garyinderry (May 3, 2013)

you are allowed to test the ground around your ball if you think there may be stones or roots under the ground. you can use a tee. I was reading an illustrated rule book today and this was featured in it. ill take a pic and post it here when I get a chance.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (May 3, 2013)

duncan mackie said:



			let's keep this in context - if those tree rots were on closely mown areas, or relief from them on those 3 holes was restricted to closely mown areas, then the LR would theoretically be fine.

the other part of the context is that a huge number of courses have 'illegal' LRs, including very old ones that run big events (which don't use them but that's another matter). Look at Princes Golf Club scorecard LRs as a good example.
		
Click to expand...

Hold on, Tiger and the masters committee got absolutely slaughtered after the masters debacle by he holier than though brigade on here. Just because a lot of clubs have dodgy local rules doesn't make it right. Either we want the rules upheld or we don't, do I detect a pot, kettle situation appearing?

Besides, I havent seen anywhere on this thread that says the roots were in closely mown areas?


----------



## garyinderry (May 3, 2013)

I don't think you should get any relief. we have to take the conditions into consideration when we are hitting out of bushes or trees. 

yes,sometimes these big trees are actually on the fairway. ive played plenty of courses like this. there is always somewhere else to hit the ball. if I have put it under a tree like this then I will have to "play it as it lies". the oldest rule in golf? :mmm:


----------



## duncan mackie (May 3, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Besides, I havent seen anywhere on this thread that says the roots were in closely mown areas?
		
Click to expand...

can you point to where it's posted that they weren't?

as to the other matter, I'm simply suggesting that you were in danger of blowing things out of proportion - I chose not to point out the obvious errors in your post but as you seem to want to engage...... the Rules actually require you to observe LR's, and you would not be in breach of the rules to do so; quite the opposite in fact. So you wouldn't be DQ'd for signing for a wrong score at all; are you out to create some new myths? 
Yes, CONGU isn't hapy about competitions that aren't played to the real rules, and the status of members handicaps would be at risk and CONGU might rule that all handicaps at that club are invalid - but they might not.
Yes it should be resolved, as should every clubs inapropriate LRs in this context.


----------



## garyinderry (May 3, 2013)

its clubs like this that makes me think that we are a bunch of softies.  "play it as it lies".  mucho respect for the guys playing golf back in the day. I can just imagine some of the courses they played and the places where their ball ended up.

seeing the nubbin club just boggles the mind of a modern golfer! 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-B...9x6CvvbAMvK3yhpHF6Lf0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## Mungoscorner (May 3, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			I don't think you should get any relief. we have to take the conditions into consideration when we are hitting out of bushes or trees. 

yes,sometimes these big trees are actually on the fairway. ive played plenty of courses like this. there is always somewhere else to hit the ball. if I have put it under a tree like this then I will have to *"play it as it lies". the oldest rule in golf?* :mmm:
		
Click to expand...

To be fair,a lot of rules in golf are absolutely ridiculous,thankfully the powers that be are seeing sense and ammending some of the more silly ones.
I abide by the rules because i have to,and not because i agree with them all.I cannot see why anybody should be penalised for hitting the fairway,yes you may be the wrong side and have a trickier line into the green,but to have to penalise yourself to avoid injury makes no sense and isn't 'fair'.If roots or any other obstacle are on/under the fairway,then they should be removed or a local rule implemented imo.


----------



## MashieNiblick (May 3, 2013)

Bit confused about the closely mown area bit as it isn't mentioned in Decision 33-8/8. Am I missing something?

Anyway, a question.

I played a course recently that had trees in the middle of a couple of fairways. The object of the drive on those holes is clearly to try to go either side of the tree, as you would if it was a pond. That's the golfing test if you like, the bit where the skill comes in. If I fail that test and hit directly behind the tree but there may be interference from visible or hidden roots, should I be allowed to drop away to the side without penalty and give mysef a shot to the green that my drive didn't deserve?


----------



## garyinderry (May 3, 2013)

MashieNiblick said:



			Bit confused about the closely mown area bit as it isn't mentioned in Decision 33-8/8. Am I missing something?

Anyway, a question.

I played a course recently that had trees in the middle of a couple of fairways. The object of the drive on those holes is clearly to try to go either side of the tree, as you would if it was a pond. That's the golfing test if you like, the bit where the skill comes in. If I fail that test and hit directly behind the tree but there may be interference from visible or hidden roots, should I be allowed to drop away to the side without penalty and give mysef a shot to the green that my drive didn't deserve?
		
Click to expand...


I agree completely ! :thup:

mottram hall  (chester)  , moyola park (n.ireland) are two courses that have big trees in the middle of the fairway with exposed roots.


----------



## Imurg (May 3, 2013)

duncan mackie said:



			... the Rules actually require you to observe LR's, and you would not be in breach of the rules to do so; quite the opposite in fact. So you wouldn't be DQ'd for signing for a wrong score at all; are you out to create some new myths? 
Yes, CONGU isn't hapy about competitions that aren't played to the real rules, and the status of members handicaps would be at risk and CONGU might rule that all handicaps at that club are invalid - but they might not.
Yes it should be resolved, as should every clubs inapropriate LRs in this context.
		
Click to expand...

So not all LR's are allowable but you have to follow one even if it breaches a Rule....Interesting...

There doesn't seem to much "control" of clubs and the way they're run. LR's that break rules, SI's not allocated correctly, sometimes seemingly dubious handicap adnustments.....

As to the OP- play it or drop it under penalty, same as if it was in a gorse bush


----------



## HawkeyeMS (May 3, 2013)

duncan mackie said:



			can you point to where it's posted that they weren't?

as to the other matter, I'm simply suggesting that you were in danger of blowing things out of proportion - I chose not to point out the obvious errors in your post but as you seem to want to engage...... the Rules actually require you to observe LR's, and you would not be in breach of the rules to do so; quite the opposite in fact. So you wouldn't be DQ'd for signing for a wrong score at all; are you out to create some new myths? 
Yes, CONGU isn't hapy about competitions that aren't played to the real rules, and the status of members handicaps would be at risk and CONGU might rule that all handicaps at that club are invalid - but they might not.
Yes it should be resolved, as should every clubs inapropriate LRs in this context.
		
Click to expand...

So if you don't adhere to a local rule you are breaking the rules even if said local rule is against the rules? How very bizarre. Perhaps all local rules should have to be approved by CONGU before they are put in place


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 20, 2017)

An interesting rules scenario in this month's GM........


----------



## drdel (Aug 21, 2017)

I didn't realize, until reading this thread, that golfers left their brains in the Pro-shop!

Surely if you think you might injure yourself or damage your clubs you can decide to do something about it. A tree is permanent part of the course, take a drop a gt on with it!


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 21, 2017)

drdel said:



			I didn't realize, until reading this thread, that golfers left their brains in the Pro-shop!

Surely if you think you might injure yourself or damage your clubs you can decide to do something about it. A tree is permanent part of the course, take a drop a gt on with it!
		
Click to expand...

So if you are allowed free relief, as a local rule, in a certain area of the course and might save you breaking your hand, you wouldn't do it.

Think you need your head testing, fella.


----------



## williamalex1 (Aug 21, 2017)

We have an area on our 14th hole thats marked GUR because of tree roots breaking through.


----------



## MegaSteve (Aug 21, 2017)

williamalex1 said:



			We have an area on our 14th hole thats marked GUR because of tree roots breaking through.
		
Click to expand...

Have seen similiar applied at several courses... 
Seems a sensible solution...


----------



## r0wly86 (Aug 21, 2017)

From an arboricultural point of view, relief from an exposed tree root would make sense. Hitting a tree trunk won't damage anything but your club and possibly your body. Hitting a root could definitely damage it which could have effects on the tree as a whole.

I work in planning and the lenghts we go to in order to protect the trees in any development is huge and a lot of that is to protect the roots.


----------



## richart (Aug 21, 2017)

williamalex1 said:



			We have an area on our 14th hole thats marked GUR because of tree roots breaking through.
		
Click to expand...

We have an area in the rough down our 10th. Roots are a good 20 feet from tree trunks. Not noticed them before, but very easy for a ball to finish amongst them. They are of course the ones you can see. Hate to think what is just below the surface. GUR area could save a nasty injury.:thup:


----------



## rulefan (Aug 21, 2017)

*Local Rule - Tree Roots*



Liverbirdie said:



			I was at a handicap meeting tonight, and I brought up the subject of exposed tree roots on our 14/15/16th holes. 

Now I'm sure I have played another course were you were allowed free relief if your ball was lying near to exposed tree roots.Maybe it's just certain trees, maybe it's only when they get to a certain age, but these roots can be dangerous, as if your ball lies next to them you could break your hand on the downswing or follow through.

So have you ever played a course where a local rule applies, even if only on certain holes, with regards to exposed tree roots?

Ok, just me then.....

Click to expand...

There is a permissible Local Rule but only for a ball on the 'fairway'.

*33-8/8*

*Local Rule Providing Relief from Tree Roots*

*Q.*May a Committee make a Local Rule providing relief without penalty if a player's stroke is interfered with by exposed tree roots?

*A.*A Local Rule is authorized only if an abnormal condition exists. Generally, the existence of exposed tree roots is not abnormal. However, if the exposed tree roots are encroaching on to the fairway, a Committee would be authorized to make a Local Rule providing relief under Rule 25-1 for interference from exposed tree roots when a ball lies on a closely-mown area. The Committee may restrict relief to interference for the lie of ball and the area of intended swing.


----------



## duncan mackie (Aug 21, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			So if you are allowed free relief, as a local rule, in a certain area of the course and might save you breaking your hand, you wouldn't do it.

Think you need your head testing, fella.
		
Click to expand...

That's not what he was suggesting at all.

Your ball is on an array of concrete from which no free relief is available - your call on whether to take a drop or not. Your ball is next to a tree stump .... Your ball is next to a tree root ....

Your choice, your call.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 21, 2017)

duncan mackie said:



			That's not what he was suggesting at all.

Your ball is on an array of concrete from which no free relief is available - your call on whether to take a drop or not. Your ball is next to a tree stump .... Your ball is next to a tree root ....

Your choice, your call.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, you've lost me.

He was questioning someone's intelligence, and seemed to suggest that you should take the drop (and I presume, cost yourself a shot), which to me is daft if there is a local rule giving free relief.

As has been shown on the thread, some people arent reading it properly. I have never said that you SHOULD get relief from tree roots, I was asking if it was possible that some courses may have introduced a local rule for relief from tree roots (and it has since been proved that some have), albeit just in close mown areas.


----------



## drdel (Aug 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			So if you are allowed free relief, as a local rule, in a certain area of the course and might save you breaking your hand, you wouldn't do it.

Think you need your head testing, fella.
		
Click to expand...

A bit sensitive! Have you not heard of sarcasm?

Anyway the Rules do not permit relief from tree roots


----------



## Liverbirdie (Aug 22, 2017)

drdel said:



			A bit sensitive! Have you not heard of sarcasm?

Anyway the Rules do not permit relief from tree roots
		
Click to expand...

Yes and if you could read properly, you could see that I said a *LOCAL* rule.:thup:


----------



## Foxholer (Aug 22, 2017)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was going from this by Spawn, in his post:-

On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing
		
Click to expand...

If that really is a Local Rule, then that's the rules you must play at that course - at least for all play covered by the LRs on the card! It matters not whether the LR is 'illegal' or not! However, the illegality of the LR should be pointed out to the appropriate (club) authorities!


----------



## need_my_wedge (Aug 22, 2017)

Earlier in the year I was playing in a comp, and on one hole my ball was in a very bad lie nestled up against a tree root - hit straight down the middle on our 4th, which slopes away right to the tree line, a firm bounce on hard ground was enough to put it down there. I chose to play it, only for the ball to fly straight up vertically and smash me in the eye socket, missing my only good eye by a few millimetres, literally. A nasty, painful and very lucky lesson learned very close to losing the eye, and would be bliind now. In future comps, if I'm in a similar situation, I will definately take a penalty drop. However, in casual games with family or friends (not swindles and such) we have all agreed the option to move it away from the roots without penalty on the grounds of safety.


----------

