# Ashes 4th Test



## chrisd (Aug 6, 2015)

Aussies all out for 12?


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## Dan2501 (Aug 6, 2015)

Haha. Handy start. This series has been insane. 10-2 off the first over pretty much sums it up.


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## Imurg (Aug 6, 2015)

Rule 1.. Don't buy a ticket for the fourth day of a Test Match...

Or even the third day...!!


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## chrisd (Aug 6, 2015)

Ok - 20 all out?


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## Dan2501 (Aug 6, 2015)

This series is absolutely insane.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2015)

What a catch.


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## chrisd (Aug 6, 2015)

21 for 5 stokes brilliant catch


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## ger147 (Aug 6, 2015)

England should steady the ship a wee bit so they don't have to bat before Lunch...


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2015)

When you hear 21-5 you just assume that England must be batting. Was concerned about our bowling attack with Anderson injured but Sturart Broad is bowling superbly. And in only the 5th over Ben Stokes has the champagne moment wrapped up for this test match.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2015)

Poor shot from Clarke but brilliant to watch. 29-6


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## Dan2501 (Aug 6, 2015)

Awful shot from Clarke. Going to get lynched for that.


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## davemc1 (Aug 6, 2015)

Wow! Just wow!!


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## Rooter (Aug 6, 2015)

I reckon that Extras chap will get picked again. Currently top scorer!


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## Tongo (Aug 6, 2015)

davemc1 said:



			Wow! Just wow!!
		
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Ditto!


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## Tongo (Aug 6, 2015)

3 overs without taking a wicket. Useless clowns!


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## davemc1 (Aug 6, 2015)

Is this just rank bad batting, or brilliant bowling? The ball doesn't seem to be doing a great deal.

my English batsman pessimism kicking in...


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## Khamelion (Aug 6, 2015)

Okay on another thread I did say cricket is pants, or words to that effect, but I saw something on twitter showing Broads reaction to a catch to looked it up and saw the score, bloody hell 56 for 9, even to a none cricket fan, that is impressive.

Well played an hats off to England.

Edit 60 all out, Stuart Broad, take a bow

Edit2 - Will England avoid the follow on ?


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2015)

Am I the only one wondering how England are going to lose this match from here?


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## Whereditgo (Aug 6, 2015)

This is going to cost me a fortune texting my Aussie mates


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## chrisd (Aug 6, 2015)

Whereditgo said:



			This is going to cost me a fortune texting my Aussie mates 

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The Aussies are the cricket equivalent of the Ping Golf team!


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## Deleted member 3432 (Aug 6, 2015)

No fight in the Aussies at all and the captain looked as though has given up with the shot he played. Fantastic to watch, nothing better than watching us hammer Aussies in the ashes.


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## Craigg (Aug 6, 2015)

I reckon Clarke will be fired before he steps foot off the plane!


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 6, 2015)

Nobody likes to see a wingeing Aussie


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 6, 2015)

Follow these steps to get your own Aussie batsman name....

Take your surname and add "b Broad" to the end.


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## Whereditgo (Aug 6, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Follow these steps to get your own Aussie batsman name....

Take your surname and add "b Broad" to the end.
		
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:rofl:

Thanks Karen, that's another set of texts I will have to send!


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 6, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Follow these steps to get your own Aussie batsman name....

Take your surname and add "b Broad" to the end.
		
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Post of the decade


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## bladeplayer (Aug 6, 2015)

By gum by golly , our lad

They dont like it up em Mr Mainwaring Sir


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## ger147 (Aug 6, 2015)

Have they issued refunds for Monday's tickets yet?


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## Leftie (Aug 6, 2015)

Only just got in and seen the scores. 


Nobody likes to see that........  :smirk:


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## Tongo (Aug 6, 2015)

What a summer Joe Root's having. Can barely put a foot wrong at the moment.


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## fundy (Aug 6, 2015)

Tongo said:



			What a summer Joe Root's having. Can barely put a foot wrong at the moment.
		
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not just a summer imo, utterly top class Root, will be one of the best around for years to come again


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## Dan2501 (Aug 6, 2015)

A day as dominant as I have ever seen. England magnificent all day, and Joe Root is one of the premier batsmen in the world right now, cannot put a foot wrong. Magnificent day. The Ashes are coming home!


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## GB72 (Aug 6, 2015)

And today was a fine example of social media at its best. The aussie bating has been immense since about 11.15 this morning


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 6, 2015)

Shamelessly stolen from Facebook but I found this quite amusing..........


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## Tongo (Aug 6, 2015)

All set up magnificently for some Stokes, Buttler and Ali mayhem at some point tomorrow!


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 6, 2015)

All over by tea tomorrow


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2015)

Wonder how big a humble you can buy because there must be loads to go around the media 

All the doom and gloom after the World Cup was utter nonsense especially talk of a whitewash


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## bladeplayer (Aug 6, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Shamelessly stolen from Facebook but I found this quite amusing..........

View attachment 16362

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Brilliant absolute BRILLIANT


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Tweet from Have I Got News For You: "RSPCA sends thanks to Australian cricket team for helping boost the UK duck population!"


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wonder how big a humble you can buy because there must be loads to go around the media 

*All the doom and gloom after the World Cup was utter nonsense especially talk of a whitewash*

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England were abject at the World Cup and deserved the slaughtering they got in the media. Then they were mediocre at best in the West Indies. Thankfully, much has changed since then. Most importantly Moores was sacked and England are playing cricket again rather than looking at what the laptop and the data tells them. They are also playing cricket with a smile on their faces which hasn't been happening for a long time. This England team is a far cry from that which went to the World Cup. Most of the personnel may be the same (certainly from the Windies tour) but the attitude and ethos is a world away. Lets just be happy that English cricket is actually exciting again.


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## Hobbit (Aug 7, 2015)

Fantastic viewing, without a doubt. Although unlikely, Aussies could finish us off before lunch and then bat for two days and then bowl us out cheaply. Until England have 400 on the board I'll keep the champagne on ice and save a urine taking till then - wind the Aussies up too much and they might just turn and bite!

C'mon England!


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Fantastic viewing, without a doubt. Although unlikely, Aussies could finish us off before lunch and then bat for two days and then bowl us out cheaply. Until England have 400 on the board I'll keep the champagne on ice and save a urine taking till then - wind the Aussies up too much and they might just turn and bite!

C'mon England!
		
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They might skittle England out before lunch but that batting line-up is there for the taking. Once past the top 3 its happy days: Clarke is Broad's bunny, Voges is not a test batsman and Marsh doesn't look that much better.


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## Wabinez (Aug 7, 2015)

Great day yesterday..words can't really do it justice. However...Australia do have to bat again!  There was still some swing about with the old ball yesterday, in bright sunshine, so it could be interesting how it develops.  One thing is for sure, Australia will not bat like that did first time round, and I would say that England won't bowl like that again the second time round.


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## Hobbit (Aug 7, 2015)

Tongo said:



			They might skittle England out before lunch but that batting line-up is there for the taking. Once past the top 3 its happy days: Clarke is Broad's bunny, Voges is not a test batsman and Marsh doesn't look that much better.
		
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Remind me what the scores were in the 2nd Test at Lords. Maybe a glance at England all out for 103 in their 2nd innings... Without a doubt England are likely to win but I'll save counting the chickens just yet.


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Remind me what the scores were in the 2nd Test at Lords. Maybe a glance at England all out for 103 in their 2nd innings... Without a doubt England are likely to win but I'll save counting the chickens just yet.
		
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What about the 3rd test last week? Lets not forget England are 2-1 ahead.


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## Wabinez (Aug 7, 2015)

Words can't really express how good yesterday was, however, Australia do have to bat again, and one thing is for certain...they won't bat like that again, and likewise, we probably won't bowl like that again.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 7, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Post of the decade  

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Stolen from elsewhere, but made me laugh


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## Wabinez (Aug 7, 2015)

ooops, a double post.  Not entirely sure how that happened...

Friday senior moment. At 28.


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## Foxholer (Aug 7, 2015)

Tongo said:



			England were abject at the World Cup and deserved the slaughtering they got in the media. Then they were mediocre at best in the West Indies. Thankfully, much has changed since then. Most importantly Moores was sacked and England are playing cricket again rather than looking at what the laptop and the data tells them. They are also playing cricket with a smile on their faces which hasn't been happening for a long time. This England team is a far cry from that which went to the World Cup. Most of the personnel may be the same (certainly from the Windies tour) but the attitude and ethos is a world away. Lets just be happy that English cricket is actually exciting again.
		
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I don't believe the sacking of Moores had anything to do with the turnaround!

Things have just gone superbly well for a mediocre to very good England side and (superbly) badly for a mediocre to poor Australian one!

If things had really turned round, Australia wouldn't have won the match that they did!

Attitude and ethos (in Cricket) are very much affected by what's actually happening and England are ';well up for it'! Feel good about what is happening, but don't think the magic formula has been discovered! The next disaster is almost certainly just around the corner and it will happen for no apparent reason - but everyone will have their opinion as to why!!


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			I don't believe the sacking of Moores had anything to do with the turnaround!

Things have just gone superbly well for a mediocre to very good England side and (superbly) badly for a mediocre to poor Australian one!

If things had really turned round, Australia wouldn't have won the match that they did!

Attitude and ethos (in Cricket) are very much affected by what's actually happening and England are ';well up for it'! Feel good about what is happening, but don't think the magic formula has been discovered! The next disaster is almost certainly just around the corner and it will happen for no apparent reason - but everyone will have their opinion as to why!!
		
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I didn't say they had discovered the magic formula, just that they have been playing a more positive style of cricket since the start of the NZ series. Sometimes it has worked well, sometimes it hasn't. Its likely to be the same for some time. 

England are by no means world beaters but they are playing some good, attacking cricket. And its a vast improvement on the drab, dreary, stats dominated style under Moores.


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Interesting declaration. I wonder if its to avoid any potential damage to Broad and Finn from a potential bouncer barrage.


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 7, 2015)

Think if things had gone well today they would've batted on and declared maybe half an hour before tea to try to bat Australia right out of the match and hopefully only have to bat once. With wickets falling there wasn't much point keeping them out there. Agree with the commentators that it's a good declaration.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2015)

Bold, creative captaincy from Cook, exactly what his critics have claimed he lacks, and exactly what he's shown today. Superb stuff. Warner and Rogers would not have wanted to come out for this 10 minute spell!


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## Hobbit (Aug 7, 2015)

We're doomed! 

I can't see England winning this. A draw will be the best we can hope for...


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Bold, creative captaincy from Cook, exactly what his critics have claimed he lacks, and exactly what he's shown today. Superb stuff. Warner and Rogers would not have wanted to come out for this 10 minute spell!
		
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Most on one of the cricket forums saying its a stupid declaration. I tend to agree with you. If the ball is still moving around a bit, get the Aussie batsmen out there and try and capitalise rather than bat on and risk having to bowl in less favourable conditions.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2015)

Most on CricketWeb agreeing that it's an excellent declaration.


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## SVB (Aug 7, 2015)

Great move to declare before lunch and try for an early wicket (or two !!)

S


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

EX Tras batting well for Australia again......


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## ColchesterFC (Aug 7, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Bold, creative captaincy from Cook, exactly what his critics have claimed he lacks, and exactly what he's shown today. Superb stuff. Warner and Rogers would not have wanted to come out for this 10 minute spell!
		
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I've been one of Cook' s critics over negative captaincy but think that's a great declaration. Wonder how much of the previous negativity was down to former coaches and now he's being encouraged to be more positive like the rest of the team.


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## User62651 (Aug 7, 2015)

Steady start from the Australians, could end up closer than people think. What's the weather forecast?


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2015)

Foxholer said:



*I don't believe the sacking of Moores had anything to do with the turnaround!*

Things have just gone superbly well for a mediocre to very good England side and (superbly) badly for a mediocre to poor Australian one!

If things had really turned round, Australia wouldn't have won the match that they did!

Attitude and ethos (in Cricket) are very much affected by what's actually happening and England are ';well up for it'! Feel good about what is happening, but don't think the magic formula has been discovered! The next disaster is almost certainly just around the corner and it will happen for no apparent reason - but everyone will have their opinion as to why!!
		
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So basically you think the coach has no effect then. Geez I never know when youre being serious or in your WUM mode, guessing the latter here


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## MegaSteve (Aug 7, 2015)

The crowd are getting involved again...

Which is always a good sign...


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## Tongo (Aug 7, 2015)

Ben Stokes, what a ripper! Love this guy. You don't know when the astonishing performance is gonna turn up but if you are patient it will arrive. Properly exciting player and good to have in the team.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2015)

Great declaration even though it failed to pay off. Still not convinced by Lyth but that gripe aside all done and dusted by lunch tomorrow


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great declaration even though it failed to pay off. Still not convinced by Lyth but that gripe aside all done and dusted by lunch tomorrow
		
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wasnt it supposed to be done and dusted by tea today?


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2015)

fundy said:



			wasnt it supposed to be done and dusted by tea today?
		
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In an ideal world but at least the Aussies went down with a touch more dignity in the second innings


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## Hobbit (Aug 7, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			In an ideal world but at least the Aussies went down with a touch more dignity in the second innings
		
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A couple of reasonable dropped catches gave them a fair bit of that dignity.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2015)

Plus the two wickets off no balls. They were lucky to get as many as they did!


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## MegaSteve (Aug 7, 2015)

Can't be critical of an England team who were largely marked down as no hopers before the series start... Been some excellent performances through out... Long may it continue...


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Booooooommmmmmmmmmmmmm !!!!!

Humble Pie all around 

Pieterson and his buddy Morgan can have some seperate pies for themselves the amount of guff they have spouted.


:whoo:


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## Hobbit (Aug 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Booooooommmmmmmmmmmmmm !!!!!

Humble Pie all around 

Pieterson and his buddy Morgan can have some seperate pies for themselves the amount of guff they have spouted.


:whoo:
		
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The champers in open!! :thup:


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

Superb England. Been a great series. The Urn is back where it belongs, and Root is up to #1 in the world. Great day.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Great stuff. Good to see Wood pick up a couple of wickets as well. He's an odd looking bowler but looks effective.


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## c1973 (Aug 8, 2015)

One helluva spanking dished out to the Aussies over the last few weeks. Y'all must be well chuffed.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 8, 2015)

Happy days happy days... That's The Ashes won...

Next up the RWC....

Watched highlights from the Wallabies vs Kiwis... Shaping up to be a great autumn...


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Piers Morgan is a joke ( well we all know that ) - spent all summer slagging Cook - we win , he says well done and then goes on another KP rant about him being a perfect teamate etc etc


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Piers Morgan is a joke ( well we all know that ) - spent all summer slagging Cook - we win , he says well done and then goes on another KP rant about him being a perfect teamate etc etc
		
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He also admits he deserves all the stick he's getting. 
Why do you follow him?


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

After such a successful Ashes, why ruin it by bringing up Morgan? Everyone knows he's a plum, he knows it himself. Take everything he says with a pinch of salt and enjoy giving the Aussies a good old beating. Morgan outspoken, brash and is very passionate about his opinions, if you don't agree with them, or find him annoying, don't follow him, simple. Just enjoy the win.

Also, for the record, KP has done nothing but support England, and Alastair Cook all summer.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			After such a successful Ashes, why ruin it by bringing up Morgan? Everyone knows he's a plum, he knows it himself. Take everything he says with a pinch of salt and enjoy giving the Aussies a good old beating. Morgan outspoken, brash and is very passionate about his opinions, if you don't agree with them, or find him annoying, don't follow him, simple. Just enjoy the win.

Also, for the record, KP has done nothing but support England, and Alastair Cook all summer.
		
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Well said.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			After such a successful Ashes, why ruin it by bringing up Morgan? Everyone knows he's a plum, he knows it himself. Take everything he says with a pinch of salt and enjoy giving the Aussies a good old beating. Morgan outspoken, brash and is very passionate about his opinions, if you don't agree with them, or find him annoying, don't follow him, simple. Just enjoy the win.

Also, for the record, KP has done nothing but support England, and Alastair Cook all summer.
		
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His comments are all over the BBC feed as opposed to following him on twitter 

Thought you would be right behind - his views in regards England before the Aussies and NZ arrived mirrored yours.


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## richart (Aug 8, 2015)

Did we win ? I thought the experts on here said we had no chance. I assume we only won because the Aussies were absolutely useless, rather than we played well.

Oh by the way, Root is the top ranked batsmen in the world, and Broad and Anderson are ranked two and three in the bowling rankings.:thup:


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			His comments are all over the BBC feed as opposed to following him on twitter 

Thought you would be right behind - his views in regards England before the Aussies and NZ arrived mirrored yours.
		
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Just ignore them. 

Yeah, they were, but unlike Morgan I am capable of changing my opinion as I see improvement, and I'm not blinded by opinions I held previously. Before this summer we weren't good enough. We should have hammered the West Indies, but we were absolutely awful in that series. The turning point was binning Moores, and giving the guys the freedom to express themselves without fear of being dropped. The team still isn't perfect by any means, but they look a heck of a lot stronger now than they did before the first ball of the summer was bowled. They've improved a lot, and the key players, Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson stood up and performed when it counted.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Just ignore them. 

Yeah, they were, but unlike Morgan I am capable of changing my opinion as I see improvement, and I'm not blinded by opinions I held previously. Before this summer we weren't good enough. We should have hammered the West Indies, but we were absolutely awful in that series. The turning point was binning Moores, and giving the guys the freedom to express themselves without fear of being dropped. The team still isn't perfect by any means, but they look a heck of a lot stronger now than they did before the first ball of the summer was bowled. They've improved a lot, and the key players, Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson stood up and performed when it counted.
		
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England are also playing with a smile on their faces and a more attacking style of cricket rather than the turgid borefest that had been used over the last couple of years. Not surprisingly the feelgood factor has returned as people are excited and being entertained by a style that isnt dominated by looking at the laptop. As you say, the team is by no means perfect or a set of world beaters but they are a vast improvement.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

richart said:



			Did we win ? I thought the experts on here said we had no chance. I assume we only won because the Aussies were absolutely useless, rather than we played well.

Oh by the way, Root is the top ranked batsmen in the world, and Broad and Anderson are ranked two and three in the bowling rankings.:thup:
		
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Always had a very strong feeling that a number of people would have to eat words and be very surprised. Glad Root is a number 1 - clearly a step above everyone at the moment. 

Stokes will have shut a few up now , as will Cook , Broad and Bell on his way back. Hopefully Lyth gets another series to gain momentum. Find a quality spinner and it will be a dangerous England side


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Just ignore them. 

Yeah, they were, but unlike Morgan I am capable of changing my opinion as I see improvement, and I'm not blinded by opinions I held previously. Before this summer we weren't good enough. We should have hammered the West Indies, but we were absolutely awful in that series. The turning point was binning Moores, and giving the guys the freedom to express themselves without fear of being dropped. The team still isn't perfect by any means, but they look a heck of a lot stronger now than they did before the first ball of the summer was bowled. They've improved a lot, and the key players, Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson stood up and performed when it counted.
		
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Englands test team was never as bad as some portrayed on here and i said it then - people got carried away with the poor WC performances and the attacks towards them were coming from all over the place - even oppo captains were saying it. Moores may not of been the perfect coach but both Cook and Bayliss gave him the credit he deserves.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

Moores was a defensive, stats-based coach that has never been good enough for International cricket. I'm sure he's a great bloke, but he's not the right man for English cricket. Was the wrong choice the first time, and again the second. The improvement since his departure has been astounding.

The team is definitely not perfect. Going down the order: 

*Cook* - Excellent so far. Inventive captaincy, performed with the bat, been a proper leader
*Lyth* -  Still looks massively out of his depth with a clear technical issue. I'm not convinced he's good enough
*Bell* -   A class player that should be persisted with for now, but not exactly scoring heaps of runs
*Root* -  Exceptional. Best batsman in the world, and playing with such freedom. Completely different player to the one he was 18 months ago. Superb.
*Bairstow* - Technique still not perfect, but he's scored heaps of runs this season and deserves his spot, has definitely improved
*Stokes* - A talisman. Isn't always going to perform, but will chip in and stand-up when needed. Again, much improved from 18 months ago.
*Buttler* - Not convincing with the bat at all. Doesn't seem to have a gameplan in red-ball cricket. Desperately needs a score in Test matches. Immensely talented, but has never been amazing in the longer form
*Moeen* - Serviceable. Good option as a number 8, but has been very average with the ball in his hand. 
*Broad* -  Superb. Deserved way more wickets than he's got this series, and the 8-fer was one of the best spells I've seen.
*Wood* -  Good, solid bowler but could have issues playing in back-to-back Tests and series
*Anderson* - It's Jimmeh. One of the best bowlers England have ever had. Hope he's not injured for long.
*Finn* - Great to see him back bowling with confidence. Going to have dodgy spells, but he's a wicket-taker.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Englands test team was never as bad as some portrayed on here and i said it then - people got carried away with the poor WC performances and the attacks towards them were coming from all over the place - even oppo captains were saying it. Moores may not of been the perfect coach but both Cook and Bayliss gave him the credit he deserves.
		
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Was it any surprise after the woeful performance in the Caribbean?

And as for Cook and Bayliss, well they're hardly going to slag Moores off are they? Especially just after they've regained the Ashes.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

The performance in the West Indies was a disgrace. They're one of the worst sides in the world, and we should never have lost a Test against them, especially when you consider they didn't field a full-strength team. The criticism after that series was deserved.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Was it any surprise after the woeful performance in the Caribbean?

And as for Cook and Bayliss, well they're hardly going to slag Moores off are they? Especially just after they've regained the Ashes.
		
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And again a lot of the Caribbean performaces came of the back of players feeling very low after a poor World Cup - but even in the series the signs were there.

Cook and Bayliss didnt have to mention Moores one single bit but both singled him out - who knows maybe his stats went a long way to helping Bayliss and the current coaches - maybe the stats were a perfect tool but just needed the right application. 

But it was clear that the doom and gloom on here was all about 2 nil whitewash against NZ and a proper thrashing followed by and another 5 nil whitewash from the Aussies. Even when we won tests it was down to oppo not playing well - after Lords the dooms came out again. It was exactly how we see the media react - win = world beaters , lose = worst in the world.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			The performance in the West Indies was a disgrace. They're one of the worst sides in the world, and we should never have lost a Test against them, especially when you consider they didn't field a full-strength team. The criticism after that series was deserved.
		
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It wasnt a "disgrace" - it was a poor last test after a decent and a good test and we still didnt lose the series - at a place where England indeed many teams dont win regulary.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It wasnt a "disgrace" - it was a poor last test after a decent and a good test and we still didnt lose the series - at a place where England indeed many teams dont win regulary.
		
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And yet 2 months later this Australian team that has been well beaten went to the Caribbean and won by 9 wickets and by 277 runs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Tongo said:



			And yet 2 months later this Australian team that has been well beaten went to the Caribbean and won by 9 wickets and by 277 runs.
		
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The same Australian Team riding on the crest of a wave after a great World Cup - getting on a run and confidence is a massive plus

Sometimes you see more by looking past just the results and the situation. This Ashes has clearly shown that far too many were far too  quick to write off England


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The same Australian Team riding on the crest of a wave after a great World Cup - getting on a run and confidence is a massive plus

*Sometimes you see more by looking past just the results and the situation*. This Ashes has clearly shown that far too many were far too  quick to write off England
		
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Yes, which had England done they may well have had a better World Cup as they would have realised that Cook was not up to it as ODI captain or and ODI player, despite a decent win %, neither was Bell and Stokes should have been persisted with rather than binned after two matches in SL. Unfortunately the laptop and the data told them otherwise.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Yes, which had England done they may well have had a better World Cup as they would have realised that Cook was not up to it as ODI captain or and ODI player, despite a decent win %, neither was Bell and Stokes should have been persisted with rather than binned after two matches in SL. Unfortunately the laptop and the data told them otherwise.
		
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And none of that changes the fact that people gave England no chance this summer and they have rammed those words down peoples throats 

Stokes was written off by people on here as well , same with Bell , Cook , Broad even Anderson.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

Was fair enough to write Stokes off. Before this summer, and one innings against Australia with bat and ball he'd done precisely nothing in an England shirt, admitted as much himself today. He's stepped up and been magnificent this summer, but had every right to doubt him after his awful run last summer.

Now we've won the series, do we give Lyth one more go? One final chance to prove himself? Or do you throw someone like a Hales in to give him a chance? 

Also, what are everyones thoughts on Buttler? Obviously an exceptional one day player, possibly the best we've ever had, but doesn't always guarantee Test success, look at Eoin Morgan for example. His glovework is okay, but his batting has been poor. Seems to struggle to pace an innings, and seems conflicted as to whether to attack or defend. Do we give the gloves to someone like Bairstow and bring a James Taylor in for example? Or stick with Buttler and hope he makes use of his obvious talents? 

I'm conflicted on both. I would probably stick with Lyth for one more Test, and stick with Buttler for now, but Jos definitely needs to improve with bat in hand.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Was fair enough to write Stokes off. Before this summer, and one innings against Australia with bat and ball he'd done precisely nothing in an England shirt, admitted as much himself today. He's stepped up and been magnificent this summer, but had every right to doubt him after his awful run last summer.

Now we've won the series, do we give Lyth one more go? One final chance to prove himself? Or do you throw someone like a Hales in to give him a chance? 

Also, what are everyones thoughts on Buttler? Obviously an exceptional one day player, possibly the best we've ever had, but doesn't always guarantee Test success, look at Eoin Morgan for example. His glovework is okay, but his batting has been poor. Seems to struggle to pace an innings, and seems conflicted as to whether to attack or defend. Do we give the gloves to someone like Bairstow and bring a James Taylor in for example? Or stick with Buttler and hope he makes use of his obvious talents? 

I'm conflicted on both. I would probably stick with Lyth for one more Test, and stick with Buttler for now, but Jos definitely needs to improve with bat in hand.
		
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I wouldnt change either. Lyth should be given a decent run in the side. England have tried a number of other options and none of them have worked whilst Hales has tailed off in CC cricket after a stunning start to the summer. As for Buttler, i would rather someone sat down with him and he was persisted with rather than just ditched. The replacements arent plentiful. Bairstow's the obvious choice but is his keeping up to test match cricket?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Was fair enough to write Stokes off. Before this summer, and one innings against Australia with bat and ball he'd done precisely nothing in an England shirt, admitted as much himself today. He's stepped up and been magnificent this summer, but had every right to doubt him after his awful run last summer.
		
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it wasnt fair enough to write Stokes off - he showed in the hardest of arena the ability to perform with both bat and ball - then had a dip and an injury but writing him off is typical these days - people dont allow players the chance. Stokes was always a quality player whose ability was going to shine through.Yes question players but dont write them off until they have been given a proper chance



			Now we've won the series, do we give Lyth one more go? One final chance to prove himself? Or do you throw someone like a Hales in to give him a chance?
		
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He has had 7 test matches and got himself a ton a few other mid40's - he needs more time - we cant keep giving the openers a series or two then swapping - Hales hasnt done anything in the longer form of the game yet 




			Also, what are everyones thoughts on Buttler? Obviously an exceptional one day player, possibly the best we've ever had, but doesn't always guarantee Test success, look at Eoin Morgan for example. His glovework is okay, but his batting has been poor. Seems to struggle to pace an innings, and seems conflicted as to whether to attack or defend. Do we give the gloves to someone like Bairstow and bring a James Taylor in for example? Or stick with Buttler and hope he makes use of his obvious talents? 

I'm conflicted on both. I would probably stick with Lyth for one more Test, and stick with Buttler for now, but Jos definitely needs to improve with bat in hand.
		
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Of course we stick with Buttler - his keeping just gets better and better and his batting is not an issue just yet - he needs a few tweeks in regards shot selection but is the most talented keeper we have and will just get stronger - he has only played 12 tests - average of just under 40 so far with 4 or 5 50's. 

In the West Indies he was left stranded 3 times i think it was . Against New Zealand he made a good 60 plus in the first innings and then was top scorer in the second test. 

Its always a tough start for a wicket keeper because they need to get two crucial parts right - he is still developing and every confidence that he will be number 1 for a number of years yet.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

I agree re: Buttler. He's so talented, just needs to find his way and his method. My advice would be to play his natural game. He doesn't have the defensive technique to become a blocker, so giving it a whack would be the best way for him I feel. As for Bairstow, his keeping is probably on a par with Buttler's when he first came into the side. Buttler has become a better glovesman, but there's no much seperating them, and would probably do Bairstow some good to just focus on his batting TBH. Buttler definitely one that needs to improve if we're going to be successful across the world though, has clear technical issues with the bat that need addressing if he's going to succeed in England, NZ, South Africa and Australia in seaming/swinging conditions.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			it wasnt fair enough to write Stokes off - he showed in the hardest of arena the ability to perform with both bat and ball - then had a dip and an injury but writing him off is typical these days - people dont allow players the chance. Stokes was always a quality player whose ability was going to shine through.Yes question players but dont write them off until they have been given a proper chance


He has had 7 test matches and got himself a ton a few other mid40's - he needs more time - we cant keep giving the openers a series or two then swapping - Hales hasnt done anything in the longer form of the game yet 

Of course we stick with Buttler - his keeping just gets better and better and his batting is not an issue just yet - he needs a few tweeks in regards shot selection but is the most talented keeper we have and will just get stronger - he has only played 12 tests - average of just under 40 so far with 4 or 5 50's. 

In the West Indies he was left stranded 3 times i think it was . Against New Zealand he made a good 60 plus in the first innings and then was top scorer in the second test. 

*Its always a tough start for a wicket keeper because they need to get two crucial parts right* - he is still developing and every confidence that he will be number 1 for a number of years yet.
		
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I always feel Stokes gets unfairly judged for the same reason. If he doesnt perform with both bat and ball it seems that people are questioning his place. Which seems harsh.


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

Stokes has proven himself this year, but was dismal last year. Couldn't buy a run, and wasn't penetrative enough with the ball. He's improved though, and I'm pleased for him.



Liverpoolphil said:



			it wasnt fair enough to write Stokes off - he showed in the hardest of arena the ability to perform with both bat and ball - then had a dip and an injury but writing him off is typical these days - people dont allow players the chance. Stokes was always a quality player whose ability was going to shine through.Yes question players but dont write them off until they have been given a proper chance
		
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43 runs in 12 innings, 6 ducks, avg 3.6. Think it was fair enough to write him off last year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			I agree re: Buttler. He's so talented, just needs to find his way and his method. My advice would be to play his natural game. He doesn't have the defensive technique to become a blocker, so giving it a whack would be the best way for him I feel. As for Bairstow, his keeping is probably on a par with Buttler's when he first came into the side. Buttler has become a better glovesman, but there's no much seperating them, and would probably do Bairstow some good to just focus on his batting TBH. Buttler definitely one that needs to improve if we're going to be successful across the world though, has clear technical issues with the bat that need addressing if he's going to succeed in England, NZ, South Africa and Australia in seaming/swinging conditions.
		
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Buttler has all the shots and can defend if needed but at the moment the game situation he has come into bat has dictated the way he plays. Either they need quick runs or the game is virtually lost and he needs to try a rear guard.

Buttler is a fair streets ahead of Bairstow behind the stumps - both have a bit of an issue standing up to the spinners but so did Prior and that can be worked on but Buttler is far more agile, reactive and quicker of his foot when diving for catches.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Tongo said:



			I always feel Stokes gets unfairly judged for the same reason. If he doesnt perform with both bat and ball it seems that people are questioning his place. Which seems harsh.
		
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I call it the Botham Syndrome


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## TheDiablo (Aug 8, 2015)

Buttler still long term solution imo. However, I would now use the opportunity at the Oval to give Rashid a chance. I'm still adamant that we need a front line spinner in the long term. Next test a good chance to give one a go - receptive wicket and relatively little pressure. He will almost certainly be needed in UAE over the winter, so try and give him some confidence in and around the Test team first.

Bairstow could stake the gloves, Stokes and Ali at 6 and 7 with Rashid at 8. 

It would also allow Buttler to go to Lancs and play a handful of One Day games to get in nick ahead of the Oz ODI series, where he will undoubtedly be required to perform - at the moment his confidence is shot with the bat and that could transfer to the ODI series if he doesnt have the chance to get in nick first.


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## Tongo (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Stokes has proven himself this year, but was dismal last year. Couldn't buy a run, and wasn't penetrative enough with the ball. He's improved though, and I'm pleased for him.



43 runs in 12 innings, 6 ducks, avg 3.6. Think it was fair enough to write him off last year.
		
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But that brutal 164 in the Royal London semi-final demonstrated that the ability was there.


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## TheDiablo (Aug 8, 2015)

Oh, and Hales is and never will be a red ball specialist and should be nowhere near Test side.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Stokes has proven himself this year, but was dismal last year. Couldn't buy a run, and wasn't penetrative enough with the ball. He's improved though, and I'm pleased for him.



43 runs in 12 innings, 6 ducks, avg 3.6. Think it was fair enough to write him off last year.
		
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Like i said - English Syndrome to write obviously talented players off - Many top quality players have had dips in form.

Think it was One Day final where he smashed the ball to all areas showed his ability and return to form


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tongo said:



			But that brutal 164 in the Royal London semi-final demonstrated that the ability was there.
		
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True, was an awesome innings, but last year his scores in all forms of international cricket were:

47, 32, 21, 0, 15, 70, 0, 5, 5, 4, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 23, 2, 33*, 16, 6

Wasn't good enough, and fans were rightly wary of his re-selection. Thankfully for Stokes, he's proven the doubters wrong, and I will admit proven me wrong, and I'm pleased for him. He's exactly the sort of player we needed. He has always had immense talent, but last year he looked completely out of his depth, particularly during that run in the middle where he made 6 ducks. Looked horrendous with bat in hand.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2015)

Great win and great series (Lords excepted). Wonder if that was a knee jerk reaction from Clarke or if he really thinks his time in international cricket is over


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## Tongo (Aug 11, 2015)

This is plain embarrassing:

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33861376

Can the Australians not admit that they were outplayed by a better team? Whingeing.........?!?!


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