# Independence Poll



## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

1 For independence 

2 Against independence  

Please keep this free from any abusive talk. I would just be interested how the votes will go.


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## Aztecs27 (Jun 19, 2012)

Why didn't you just set up a simple "yes" or "no" using the poll function?


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

Sorry i haven't done one of these before.


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## JustOne (Jun 19, 2012)

I think you should have independence, well certainly those that want it. Hadrian's wall shoud then be reinstated along similar lines as the Berlin Wall.

Those that don't want independence will be sufficiently accommodated/welcomed into the England before the border goes up for those that believe in a multicultural society where we can all live together as ONE.

Where's the option for turning Scotland into one giant prison?


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## chrisd (Jun 19, 2012)

Shouldn't you have asked the nationality of the voter too. How many Scots want independence compared to how many English want a divorce from Scotland!


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## GreiginFife (Jun 19, 2012)

Don't think it's that simple at this stage. At present no one (looking in Big Ecky Salmonds direction) has come out and said what this does for Scotland. 
I'm fiercely patriotic as a Scot but also recognise our place in the Union as it stands (as I have not seen anything to the compare) so the unknown of what resources we will have, proportionate taxation system etc will need to be explained before I can make an informed decision.


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## One Planer (Jun 19, 2012)

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...land-Independance-vote&highlight=Independence


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

chrisd said:



			Shouldn't you have asked the nationality of the voter too. How many Scots want independence compared to how many English want a divorce from Scotland!
		
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I think its good to here what both side have to say.


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Don't think it's that simple at this stage. At present no one (looking in Big Ecky Salmonds direction) has come out and said what this does for Scotland. 
I'm fiercely patriotic as a Scot but also recognise our place in the Union as it stands (as I have not seen anything to the compare) so the unknown of what resources we will have, proportionate taxation system etc will need to be explained before I can make an informed decision.
		
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Greig thats way tooooo sensible. lol :thup:


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

Gareth said:



http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/sh...land-Independance-vote&highlight=Independence

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They didn't have a poll Gareth....


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. That my simplistic take on it. :whoo:


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## chris661 (Jun 19, 2012)

JustOne said:



			I think you should have independence, well certainly those that want it. Hadrian's wall shoud then be reinstated along similar lines as the Berlin Wall.

Those that don't want independence will be sufficiently accommodated/welcomed into the England before the border goes up for those that believe in a multicultural society where we can all live together as ONE.

Where's the option for turning Scotland into one giant prison?
		
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I dont know if this is trying to be funny or not. Either way its a pile of dung.


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## brendy (Jun 19, 2012)

I love the way this was just posted assuming everyone was scotish or would know/care what it was about.


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## mcbroon (Jun 19, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Don't think it's that simple at this stage. At present no one (looking in Big Ecky Salmonds direction) has come out and said what this does for Scotland. 
I'm fiercely patriotic as a Scot but also recognise our place in the Union as it stands (as I have not seen anything to the compare) so the unknown of what resources we will have, proportionate taxation system etc will need to be explained before I can make an informed decision.
		
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This is the correct answer


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## HotDogAssassin (Jun 19, 2012)

brendy said:



			I love the way this was just posted assuming everyone was scotish or would know/care what it was about. 

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+1, I started reading thinking independence of what?


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## Crazyface (Jun 19, 2012)

Can't we join up with Scotland? What with their free prescriptions and free university education, and an awful lot of oil.......


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 19, 2012)

Crazyface said:



			Can't we join up with Scotland? What with their free prescriptions and free university education, and an awful lot of oil.......
		
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I'd rather join up with them than all them shandy drinking southerners.

My new country - anything north of the Cheshire border/M62 including Scotland. I'm divorcing the south.

Our new national dress:- Geordie black and white tartan tamashanter, Buckfast t-shirt, Yorkshire cricket jumpers and Adidas columbia.

National anthem: She sells sanctuary (the cult), we will mosh to it when played at sporting occasions.

National flag : A tricolour of different shades of rain, with lion repugnant.

Re-draw the borders now!!! Anyone with me?


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## GreiginFife (Jun 19, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd rather join up with them than all them shandy drinking southerners.

My new country - anything north of the Cheshire border/M62 including Scotland. I'm divorcing the south.

Our new national dress:- Geordie black and white tartan tamashanter, Buckfast t-shirt, Yorkshire cricket jumpers and Adidas columbia.

National anthem: She sells sanctuary (the cult), we will mosh to it when played at sporting occasions.

National flag : A tricolour of different shades of rain, with lion repugnant.

Re-draw the borders now!!! Anyone with me?
		
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You had me right up until the anthem Liverbirdie...


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 19, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			You had me right up until the anthem Liverbirdie...
		
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We can have two songs then (like the Irish), any suggestions?

What about "Chorus of the (hebrew) carlsberg special brew slaves" by Verdi, from Nabucco. 

Very classy, played on washboards, skiffle, bagpipes and kazzoos in G minor.

Paint your face blue and cry Fleadom!!!!!!!!!


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## GreiginFife (Jun 19, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			What about "Chorus of the (hebrew) carlsberg special brew slaves" by Verdi, from Nabucco. 

Very classy, played on washboards, skiffle, bagpipes and kazzoos in G minor.
		
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Now you're talking...


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## JustOne (Jun 19, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I dont know if this is trying to be funny or not. Either way its a pile of dung.
		
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Why's that?


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## Khamelion (Jun 19, 2012)

I live right close to Hadrian's Wall, well this little bits that are left, run right past the top of the street, quite odd in the summer months to see bus loads of Japanese tourists taking photo if it. Don't need to rebuild it, the A69 in rush hour takes care of that.

I'd have to redesign the wall as well as one of my favourite local courses would be on the north side.

On a serious note though, would we have to have border crossings like the US / Canada border? What would happen if Scotland decided to join the Euro? Would the English put an embargo on importing whiskey? The north sea oil fields are mainly accessed via Scottish ports. If there is a difference of opinion in imigration would we see a fence patrolled like the Mexican / US border?

More over with Scotland as part of the UK the Scottish economy is sheilded somewhat by the fact that the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world. The thoughts of smaller countries going alone and making profit as suggested by Mr Salmond was blown out the water when the banks of Iceland collapsed and Ireland nearly had to go cap in hand looking for a bail out. Those wanting independence need to seriously consider the implications should it along go wrong.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 19, 2012)

I am all for shifting the Trident subs to the South of England.

An independent Scotland would certainly get a huge financial boost when they stop contributing to the costs of those monsters.


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I'd rather join up with them than all them shandy drinking southerners.

My new country - anything north of the Cheshire border/M62 including Scotland. I'm divorcing the south.

Our new national dress:- Geordie black and white tartan tamashanter, Buckfast t-shirt, Yorkshire cricket jumpers and Adidas columbia.

National anthem: She sells sanctuary (the cult), we will mosh to it when played at sporting occasions.

National flag : A tricolour of different shades of rain, with lion repugnant.

Re-draw the borders now!!! Anyone with me?
		
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Hahaha fantastic, welcome onboard. :cheers:


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I am all for shifting the Trident subs to the South of England.

An independent Scotland would certainly get a huge financial boost when they stop contributing to the costs of those monsters.
		
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And they can take all their nuclear waste with them as well.


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

I am quite surprised its 50/50. I think next year, we will get to know some figures. And i think it will make interesting reading. Why else would David Cameron want us to stay, if we are costing use so much.


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## DappaDonDave (Jun 19, 2012)

Independence from what?

The eu?
Scotland fom England
England from Scotland
My head from my body?


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## USER1999 (Jun 19, 2012)

munro007 said:



			I am quite surprised its 50/50. I think next year, we will get to know some figures. And i think it will make interesting reading. Why else would David Cameron want us to stay, if we are costing use so much.
		
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As i have stated before, no pm is going to want the break up of the union on his watch.

For me, the sooner we get that blue rubbish off our flag the better. My only concern is time scales. I really don't want to see this dragged out for ten years, bleeding the south dry to pay for it, and defo no bail outs when it goes wrong. There's about 15 years of oil left, what then?


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## DCB (Jun 19, 2012)

There's about 15 years of oil left, what then?​

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You're being optimistic there Murph, all the big boys have been topping their wells up with mud and slurry for a while in the hope of selling them off to some unsuspecting smaller company. One day soon it's all just going to dry up oo: Then we're all stuffed :lol:

Wont be long after that happens that we look at Greece and think they're the rich boys of Europe


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## USER1999 (Jun 19, 2012)

Worrying, but probably true. Never mind, we have the best hair dressers in Europe. We can rebuild our economy by cutting hair. Heaven forbid we should try to manufacture anything.


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## sev112 (Jun 19, 2012)

Personally i would be happy for Scots to have independence although i put my hand up and say i havent got a clue what are the relevant issues

I am REALLY interested in working out how you decide who gets to have a Scottish passport  - i bet nobody has though about that yet,  anyone who currently lives there , anyone who has got a granny who played rugby for Scotland in the 1990s - seriously though, it's a good question, and i want one too.  Perhaps you will just have to give one to anyone who applies.


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## JustOne (Jun 19, 2012)

murphthemog said:
			
		


			For me, the sooner we get that blue rubbish off our flag the better.
		
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Khamelion said:



			I live right close to Hadrian's Wall, well this little bits that are left, run right past the top of the street, quite odd in the summer months to see bus loads of Japanese tourists taking photo if it. Don't need to rebuild it, the A69 in rush hour takes care of that.

I'd have to redesign the wall as well as one of my favourite local courses would be on the north side.

On a serious note though, would we have to have border crossings like the US / Canada border? What would happen if Scotland decided to join the Euro? Would the English put an embargo on importing whiskey? The north sea oil fields are mainly accessed via Scottish ports. If there is a difference of opinion in imigration would we see a fence patrolled like the Mexican / US border?

More over with Scotland as part of the UK the Scottish economy is sheilded somewhat by the fact that the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world. The thoughts of smaller countries going alone and making profit as suggested by Mr Salmond was blown out the water when the banks of Iceland collapsed and Ireland nearly had to go cap in hand looking for a bail out. Those wanting independence need to seriously consider the implications should it along go wrong.
		
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^
^
^
This.

It seems the Scots are having the wool pulled over their eyes.. probably for the promise that will never come...... FREE MONEY!!!!! 

I'm sure they all expect to be sitting on gold plated toilets and have English serving maids spoonfeeding haggis and porridge. Whereas in reality they'll be a parasite sitting at the top of the UK. Of course they will be wanting to have their cake... and eat it. I'm suspecting that they'll want to negotiate free access to our roads to import provisions like FOOD, or will it be 'grow your own'?. I'm guessing that they wouldn't want us to stick a 50% import duty on anything crossing our border into Scotland? I'm guessing they wouldn't want us to hike the tax rate on the import of Scottish whiskey? we might aswell seeing as Irish whiskey is bountiful. 55 million customers NOTbuying Scottish products might have a 'small' impact on their economy.. not sure if tourism will be hit seeing as we'd be visiting a country that turned it's back on the 'Union'.

Can 220,000 currently unemployed Scots be sustained by a nation of only 6 million tax payers.. when I say tax payers i'm ignoring the elderly and the young which are included in that figure... not sure what the welfare state will be able to support seeing as the major income channels could be hard hit, could a nation survive on crofting and car boot sales? Will you bring back work houses for single mothers and send them out to the jobs (that don't exist) whilst taking their children away from them?

The idea of independence itself is xenophobia/racism veiled (thinly) in the the guise of patriotism. I wonder if a mosque or two next to Loch Ness would go down well  from what I've gathered there's not really a strong sentiment to our fellow human beings of the name Hamish Patel and Jock Ching, and what do you do with those that DON'T want to leave the Union? do you build your very own Shankhill Rd? Do they suffer in silence?

Independence? think about what your going to leave for your future generations.... nowt! this is a political conspiracy to put power/money into the pockets of those at the top whilst they remain popular.. of course any major industry will need to be buttered up by the new 'government' else it might leave... I don't know.. I could go on and talk about living in the past, traditions over common sense but I'm actually off to Stonehenge to gut a virgin.........!!!


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## CliveW (Jun 19, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			For me, the sooner we get that blue rubbish off our flag the better.
		
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What colour of football strip will England play in then?


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## CliveW (Jun 19, 2012)

Khamelion said:



			Would the English put an embargo on importing whiskey?
		
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Whiskey comes from Ireland. Whisky comes from Scotland.


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## JustOne (Jun 19, 2012)

CliveW said:



			What colour of football strip will England play in then?
		
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We'll add a dragon


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## Mattyboy (Jun 19, 2012)

As long as we do not end up with a united football team I dont care!


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## USER1999 (Jun 19, 2012)

CliveW said:



			What colour of football strip will England play in then?
		
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Probably that stupid pale grey strip that they never won in.


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## Iaing (Jun 19, 2012)

It's whisky not whiskey when referring to Scotch.
Ignorant Englishman !!

Edit.

Well beaten in pointing out justone's ignorance.


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## JustOne (Jun 19, 2012)

I don't drink Iaing so I couldn't care how it's spelt, but I prefer the Irish way


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

JustOne said:







^
^
^
This.

It seems the Scots are having the wool pulled over their eyes.. probably for the promise that will never come...... FREE MONEY!!!!! 

I'm sure they all expect to be sitting on gold plated toilets and have English serving maids spoonfeeding haggis and porridge. Whereas in reality they'll be a parasite sitting at the top of the UK. Of course they will be wanting to have their cake... and eat it. I'm suspecting that they'll want to negotiate free access to our roads to import provisions like FOOD, or will it be 'grow your own'?. I'm guessing that they wouldn't want us to stick a 50% import duty on anything crossing our border into Scotland? I'm guessing they wouldn't want us to hike the tax rate on the import of Scottish whiskey? we might aswell seeing as Irish whiskey is bountiful. 55 million customers NOTbuying Scottish products might have a 'small' impact on their economy.. not sure if tourism will be hit seeing as we'd be visiting a country that turned it's back on the 'Union'.

Can 220,000 currently unemployed Scots be sustained by a nation of only 6 million tax payers.. when I say tax payers i'm ignoring the elderly and the young which are included in that figure... not sure what the welfare state will be able to support seeing as the major income channels could be hard hit, could a nation survive on crofting and car boot sales? Will you bring back work houses for single mothers and send them out to the jobs (that don't exist) whilst taking their children away from them?

The idea of independence itself is xenophobia/racism veiled (thinly) in the the guise of patriotism. I wonder if a mosque or two next to Loch Ness would go down well  from what I've gathered there's not really a strong sentiment to our fellow human beings of the name Hamish Patel and Jock Ching, and what do you do with those that DON'T want to leave the Union? do you build your very own Shankhill Rd? Do they suffer in silence?

Independence? think about what your going to leave for your future generations.... nowt! this is a political conspiracy to put power/money into the pockets of those at the top whilst they remain popular.. of course any major industry will need to be buttered up by the new 'government' else it might leave... I don't know.. I could go on and talk about living in the past, traditions over common sense but I'm actually off to Stonehenge to gut a virgin.........!!!
		
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For someone that has so much to say, you haven't voted


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## JustOne (Jun 19, 2012)

I don't think you should TAKE independence, not that you don't deserve it in some way (I care not for the history) but that it's a mistake, a BIG mistake. I wouldn't exactly call it the blind leading the blind but it's certainly 'the powerful pulling the puppet strings'.

In thoery we should live side by side like brothers, so much so that there would be no noticable divide between Scottish/English/Welsh (and Irish?), I conceed that's hard to do if everyone is going to walk around with a large chip on their shoulder :thup:

Let the would be 'rulers' of Scotland worry about how they're going to maintain their popularity/longevity in some other way... perhaps they can bloody well start by trying to make Scotland a better place for it's citizens in a more orthodox way instead of slitting it's throat!

So that's a no from me.... :thup:


(If I were Scottish I'd be ANGRY that it would even be tabled as a possibility! That's not leadership!)


actually you can scrap that... no need to be Scottish to be angry about it.... !! :thup:


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## munro007 (Jun 19, 2012)

Its really interesting that a lot of people that have voted No, are english.


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## JustOne (Jun 19, 2012)

We probably like you more than we tell you


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## rosecott (Jun 20, 2012)

munro007 said:



			Its really interesting that a lot of people that have voted No, are english.
		
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Beware of assumptions - because I now live in Notts, I was born brought up and educated in Fife.


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

rosecott said:



			Beware of assumptions - because I now live in Notts, I was born brought up and educated in Fife.
		
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But your english now fella, you have went to the dark side.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Just to put a further slant on this.

What currency will an indepandant Scotland use?

The couldn't use GBP as it's the currency of the union. Would they have to join the Euro?

That's not going to be cheap setting up a currency system from scratch.


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## rosecott (Jun 20, 2012)

munro007 said:



			Its really interesting that a lot of people that have voted No, are english.
		
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I'm still trying to work out how you know that.


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

Am i missing something here. We already have our own currency here. Because every time i go down south, with my lovely Scottish notes, sorry love we don't take them here. With all your fake notes down there, you would think you would be happy to have our notes. 

And on another note, i don't want to be part of the euro either.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 20, 2012)

munro007 said:



			Am i missing something here. We already have our own currency here. Because every time i go down south, with my lovely Scottish notes, sorry love we don't take them here. With all your fake notes down there, you would think you would be happy to have our notes. 

And on another note, i don't want to be part of the euro either.
		
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I was told that the Scottish ones were easier to fake, which is the reason why. Don't know if it's true or not.


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

rosecott said:



			I'm still trying to work out how you know that.
		
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How i know what dude. Click on the number, and it will tell you who has voted for what.


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			I was told that the Scottish ones were easier to fake, which is the reason why. Don't know if it's true or not.
		
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Every time a master forger gets caught, its always english notes, and euro's.


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## rosecott (Jun 20, 2012)

munro007 said:



			How i know what dude. Click on the number, and it will tell you who has voted for what.
		
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No - I meant how did you know who is English - also how many of those who voted yes are English/Scottish/other?


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

munro007 said:



			Am i missing something here. We already have our own currency here. Because every time i go down south, with my lovely Scottish notes, sorry love we don't take them here. With all your fake notes down there, you would think you would be happy to have our notes. 

And on another note, i don't want to be part of the euro either.
		
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Does it say Sterling on them?

If so, the pound sterling is the official type of money used in the United Kingdom.

An independant Scotland would no longer be part of the kingdom/union so should not be allowed to use it IMO.

So, again, It's create a new currency (Not cheap) or join the Euro.


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Does it say Sterling on them?

If so, the pound sterling is the official type of money used in the United Kingdom.

An independant Scotland would no longer be part of the kingdom/union so should not be allowed to use it IMO.
		
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You clearly haven't experienced the ignorance that i have, when it comes to Scottish Printed Money.

Gareth, they are already talking about using sterling for the short term, if we get the yes vote.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

munro007 said:



			Gareth, they are already talking about using sterling for the short term, if we get the yes vote.
		
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I have no idea if that is even legal but I can't see Mr Cameron Agreeing to that.

Will an independant Scotland also have to set up it's own NHS, army, navy and airforce as, as I understand it, it's currently a GB/UK armed forces?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

JustOne said:



			It seems the Scots are having the wool pulled over their eyes.. probably for the promise that will never come...... FREE MONEY!!!!! 

Whereas in reality they'll be a parasite sitting at the top of the UK. Of course they will be wanting to have their cake... and eat it. I'm suspecting that they'll want to negotiate free access to our roads to import provisions like FOOD, or will it be 'grow your own'?. 



The idea of independence itself is xenophobia/racism veiled (thinly) in the the guise of patriotism. I wonder if a mosque or two next to Loch Ness would go down well  from what I've gathered there's not really a strong sentiment to our fellow human beings of the name Hamish Patel and Jock Ching, and what do you do with those that DON'T want to leave the Union? do you build your very own Shankhill Rd? Do they suffer in silence?
		
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JustOne said:



			In thoery we should live side by side like brothers, so much so that there would be no noticable divide between Scottish/English/Welsh (and Irish?), I conceed that's hard to do if everyone is going to walk around with a large chip on their shoulder :thup:

 perhaps they can bloody well start by trying to make Scotland a better place for it's citizens in a more orthodox way instead of slitting it's throat!
		
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Possibly the best way to make Scotland a better place for it's citizens is to be able to control how money is used in our country, instead of seeing all our taxation (personal,NI contributions,corporate) heading south to be divied up at no.11?

Scotland is a complex society, with support for all parties (including The Conservative party in The Borders) but the consensus through out the population seems to be against the likes of Trident...only this week Â£1Billion was appropriated for investigation works into replacing it, not building it, just replacing it!

As for the underhand jibe at Scotland's minority communities, I can't recall any riots up here last summer, or the racial tensions that exist in places like Bradford,Birmingham,Leeds etc.If any far right political party tried to get voted in here, I'm confident they'd lose their deposit.Not something that can be said south of the border.I live and work in Leith, well known for it's large Indian sub-continent and Polish communities, and I can't recall any significant happening to suggest your statement is accurate.  


Gareth said:



			Just to put a further slant on this.

What currency will an indepandant Scotland use?

The couldn't use GBP as it's the currency of the union. Would they have to join the Euro?

That's not going to be cheap setting up a currency system from scratch.
		
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The Â£ is the currency of the 'Bank of England', except it's not actually the bank of England, it's the bank of The UK...the Â£ is as much ours as it is Englands.We'll continue to use out own currency,thanks very much...and we'll have a seat (or two) on it's board to ensure interest rates and the like are acceptable to our financial model too.



Gareth said:



			I have no idea if that is even legal but I can't see Mr Cameron Agreeing to that.

Will an independant Scotland also have to set up it's own NHS, army, navy and airforce as, as I understand it, it's currently a GB/UK armed forces?
		
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They're our NHS,army,navy etc too!About 9%, but I think you'll find the % of serving personel is higher than that number.We pay taxes for the roads in The UK,HMRC,DVLA,NHS...anything that comes from Westminster is as much yours as it is mine....a perfect current example is The Falkkands.The stooshie happening right now is only happening because they all know the oil/gas reserves there could be stunningly big...some suggest more than Saudi Arabia sits on.If we win independence, we'll be due 9% of any revenue stream, international law dictates it.

None if really matters though, as I have a feeling the Scottish nation will vote against the yes vote as the population at large will be mis-informed by the media as The BBC,Daily Retard & Scotsman line up behind the small minded No merchants and Salmonds only hope of positive coverage came with a rather unsightly partenrship with Murdoch...something thats sit uneasily with no nationalist, but a sign of desperation on his part.

If we do win, we'll pretty much get exactly what we want as there are laws and stuff like that already set out, but aside from that we have something RUK needs so badly they'll bend over and take it from wee fat Eck...it's called Coulport.


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## brendy (Jun 20, 2012)

munro007 said:



			You clearly haven't experienced the ignorance that i have, when it comes to Scottish Printed Money.

Gareth, they are already talking about using sterling for the short term, if we get the yes vote.
		
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You should try using Ulster bank, Bank of Ireland and Northern Bank notes. Totally legal to use but shops are within their rights to refuse it. Luckily I am with the Halifax and those cash machines give out BOE notes so I can stock up before heading away.


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Possibly the best way to make Scotland a better place for it's citizens is to be able to control how money is used in our country, instead of seeing all our taxation (personal,NI contributions,corporate) heading south to be divied up at no.11?

Scotland is a complex society, with support for all parties (including The Conservative party in The Borders) but the consensus through out the population seems to be against the likes of Trident...only this week Â£1Billion was appropriated for investigation works into replacing it, not building it, just replacing it!

As for the underhand jibe at Scotland's minority communities, I can't recall any riots up here last summer, or the racial tensions that exist in places like Bradford,Birmingham,Leeds etc.If any far right political party tried to get voted in here, I'm confident they'd lose their deposit.Not something that can be said south of the border.I live and work in Leith, well known for it's large Indian sub-continent and Polish communities, and I can't recall any significant happening to suggest your statement is accurate.  


The Â£ is the currency of the 'Bank of England', except it's not actually the bank of England, it's the bank of The UK...the Â£ is as much ours as it is Englands.We'll continue to use out own currency,thanks very much...and we'll have a seat (or two) on it's board to ensure interest rates and the like are acceptable to our financial model too.


They're our NHS,army,navy etc too!About 9%, but I think you'll find the % of serving personel is higher than that number.We pay taxes for the roads in The UK,HMRC,DVLA,NHS...anything that comes from Westminster is as much yours as it is mine....a perfect current example is The Falkkands.The stooshie happening right now is only happening because they all know the oil/gas reserves there could be stunningly big...some suggest more than Saudi Arabia sits on.If we win independence, we'll be due 9% of any revenue stream, international law dictates it.

None if really matters though, as I have a feeling the Scottish nation will vote against the yes vote as the population at large will be mis-informed by the media as The BBC,Daily Retard & Scotsman line up behind the small minded No merchants and Salmonds only hope of positive coverage came with a rather unsightly partenrship with Murdoch...something thats sit uneasily with no nationalist, but a sign of desperation on his part.

If we do win, we'll pretty much get exactly what we want as there are laws and stuff like that already set out, but aside from that we have something RUK needs so badly they'll bend over and take it from wee fat Eck...it's called Coulport.
		
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Great read fella. :thup:

They think that its all theirs. :rofl:

I wish i was so eloquent when it comes down to putting pen to paper. lol


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

brendy said:



			You should try using Ulster bank, Bank of Ireland and Northern Bank notes. Totally legal to use but shops are within their rights to refuse it. Luckily I am with the Halifax and those cash machines give out BOE notes so I can stock up before heading away.
		
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They aren't legally aloud to refuse are they. 

Well it makes you feel like a second class citizen.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

Sterling is UK so at the moment Scotland have a % share in the UK's cash.
If we become independent I hope the rest of the UK have sufficient funds to re-pay.

Remember also that it was a Scotsman who founded the Banks of England and Austrailia.


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## PieMan (Jun 20, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sterling is UK so at the moment Scotland have a % share in the UK's cash.
If we become independent I hope the rest of the UK have sufficient funds to re-pay.
		
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It will probably be deducted from Scotland's share of the national debt........... 

I couldn't be bothered one way or the other whether Scotland breaks away from the Union, but just hope the Scottish people get told the truth about all the ramifications - national debt, tax, Europe, currency etc etc, before the vote takes place. Besides, if it is a 'yes' vote for independence then it will probably take years to sort out all the details. 

And on the vote, it should be a straight 'yes' or 'no' and not include a 'more devolution' option as that would be unfair to the rest of the Union.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

The Â£ is the currency of the 'Bank of England', except it's not actually the bank of England, it's the bank of The UK...the Â£ is as much ours as it is Englands.
		
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Where did I say it wasn't 




			We'll continue to use out own currency,thanks very much
		
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I think you mis-understood my post.

The pound sterling is only used in the UNITED KINGDOM of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Plus dependancies).

The Bank of England prints and distributes money for England and Wales. The Bank of Ireland, the First Trust Bank, the Northern Bank, and the Ulster Bank print the notes for Northern Ireland. The Bank of Scotland, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and the Clydesdale Bank print and distribute the notes for Scotland.

If, IF, Scotland attains its independence, it will not longer be part of the United Kingdom. 

If it's no longer part of the United Kingdom, how, legally, can it use the currency of a Union it is no longer part of?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Where did I say it wasn't 



I think you mis-understood my post.

The pound sterling is only used in the UNITED KINGDOM of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Plus dependancies).

The Bank of England prints and distributes money for England and Wales. The Bank of Ireland, the First Trust Bank, the Northern Bank, and the Ulster Bank print the notes for Northern Ireland. The Bank of Scotland, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and the Clydesdale Bank print and distribute the notes for Scotland.

If, IF, Scotland attains its independence, it will not longer be part of the United Kingdom. 

If it's no longer part of the United Kingdom, how, legally, can it use the currency of a Union it is no longer part of?
		
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A fair question.
From my understanding, Scotland would still use 'The Bank of England' as it's central bank and would negotiate a new sterling area, like the euro zone (without the greeks and the spanish!) A good move for both nations, creating stability financially and economically.

There are precedents for this in The Caribbean and West Africa.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			A fair question.
From my understanding, Scotland would still use 'The Bank of England' as it's central bank and would negotiate a new sterling area, like the euro zone (without the greeks and the spanish!) A good move for both nations, creating stability financially and economically.

There are precedents for this in The Caribbean and West Africa.
		
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No doubt there will be negotiotion between government "IF" it were to happen.

As a soverign state, as it would be if it were to leave the union, you would imagine that having it's own currency would be the next, logical step?

I think it's a good debate this and it's certainly highlighted to me certain factors I'd never even considered.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			No doubt there will be negotiotion between government "IF" it were to happen.

As a soverign state, as it would be if it were to leave the union, you would imagine that having it's own currency would be the next, logical step?

I think it's a good debate this and it's certainly highlighted to me certain factors I'd never even considered.
		
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The next logical step for an independent Scotland would be to sort out the insanely poor health conditions and housing, especially on The West coast...adults live longer on The Gaza Strip than certain parts of Glasgow.Shameful.
Then I'd want them to look at the truely mental levels of spending on nuclear warheads,dubious wars and the like, all while child poverty in The UK rises.
I'd want them to look at the shameful state of schools and hospitals, employment and taxation.

The name of the currency people use is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			The next logical step for an independent Scotland would be to sort out the insanely poor health conditions and housing, especially on The West coast...adults live longer on The Gaza Strip than certain parts of Glasgow.Shameful.
Then I'd want them to look at the truely mental levels of spending on nuclear warheads,dubious wars and the like, all while child poverty in The UK rises.
I'd want them to look at the shameful state of schools and hospitals, employment and taxation.

The name of the currency people use is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
		
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While all the above it true (... And I agree) It still costs money and if there is no viable currency in place.......


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			While all the above it true (... And I agree) It still costs money and if there is no viable currency in place.......
		
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There will be a currency, it will be called 'The pound'.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			There will be a currency, it will be called 'The pound'.
		
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As easy as that :thup:


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## Hobbit (Jun 20, 2012)

Why, why, why does everyone go on about money?

Do you want independance or not?


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## USER1999 (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			A fair question.
From my understanding, Scotland would still use 'The Bank of England' as it's central bank
		
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this is the sort of thing that really annoys the heck out of me though. 

If Scotland are to devolve, it should be a complete split. If they are to continue using anything from South of the border, then it is not a complete split. They should either remain, or go, not cherry pick.

And defo no bail outs from the south. Ever. Under any circumstances.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			Why, why, why does everyone go on about money?

Do you want independance or not?
		
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Kinda agree with that, but you have to be pragmatic.



murphthemog said:



			this is the sort of thing that really annoys the heck out of me though. 

If Scotland are to devolve, it should be a complete split. If they are to continue using anything from South of the border, then it is not a complete split. They should either remain, or go, not cherry pick.

And defo no bail outs from the south. Ever. Under any circumstances.
		
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There is a problem with that and it's not Scotlands problem, but Englands.It's pretty much accepted that 9% of everything UK owned is Scottish, the easiest way to divvy up is we keep our roads and bridges, England keeps theirs, moving roads and the like would prove rather tricky.
The issue arrives with things like BoE,Embassies,the Falklands,tanks and warships and planes.They're all 9% Scottish, so we either agree to share them, or we sell you our share...if England wants to buy 9% of the BoE and The Falklands from us, you might as well turn of the lights and move to Namibia, cos England will be finito....you simply don't have that kind of money, even in good times.

the important thing to remember is that we'll be partners on this tiny island, vital to each other.It's not a case pulling up the bridge for either side.My dad is English, so is my sister...I really like England and go on holiday there, I wanted England to win last night (but not the whole tourney!)

And as for bail outs, if Scotland does get independence, there will be only one country asking to be bailed out by the other one, and you got it the wrong way round...why do you think so many politicians in England are keen on the union?One answer:money.


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## DaveM (Jun 20, 2012)

Not voted as there is no button. For could not care less. Even more so reading all the hot air on here.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

With respect Adi, this is the point I don't quite get with the independence vote/debate. If you could enlighten me (...Seriousy not taking the mick) I would be garteful.

As I see/understand it. Scotland wants full independence from the rest of the union (UK). In short, becoming it's own soverign, self governed country independent of the union?

My understanding is that yes, as part of the union you are entitled to 9% of all assets. However if you choose to leave the union, remember it's the Scottish peoples choice to leave, then why would the new country be entitled to said figure after you choosen to leave.

As an example. British Overseas territories are under the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom (A union Scotland, potentially could leave). Take the Falklands as a further example. If Scotland leave the United Kingdom, as I understand it, you would lose any rights/privilages granted as a part of that Union, including the Falklands?

The same would apply with the B.O.E with the Bank of England being the central bank of the United Kingdom.

How can the new independant country lay claim to assets, both financial and territorial to a union it has chosen to leave of its own accord?

In short. As a part of the union you have your 9% control. If you leave the Union, you forfeit your 9%




What am I missing?


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## PieMan (Jun 20, 2012)

Another scenario:

The result of the Scottish Independence referendum in 2014 is a 'yes'. Hooray - the SNP have achieved a historical triumph and a date that will go down in history. So the powers that be in London and Edinburgh now start sitting down in earnest to negotiate Scotland's break from the Union. After lengthy negotiations, a date is agreed, but it is not before the next Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016.

2016 comes around and the SNP lose that general election, to be replaced by Labour (or a Lib / Lab coalition). As Labour and the Liberals do not want independence, the new First Minister turns round to the UK PM and says "actually, we now want to remain in the Union" - what happens then?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			What am I missing?
		
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We're currently part of The UK, and as such any resource is owned jointly.The most obvious one's sited in Scotland is Coulport & Faslane.They're so vital to The UK it's difficult to over-egg.But a free and independent Scotland want's no part of that, so we'd concede (after alot of negotiations) that RUK can continue to use Coulport for the next 10-15 years until you've built your own, cos that's how long it will take.

It's a divorce, someone is leaving home, but the furniture and joint bank account have to be divied up.

The Falklands is a funny one.I used it as an example of an overseas territory that 30 years ago English,Scottish,Welsh and Irish men died to protect, there's Scottish personel down there right now.I'd take a guess Scotland would walk away from it quite happily, it'll just be another bargaining tool for us to use.We'll share Embassies though, thats a cert.

And make no mistake, these negotiations have already started, does anyone really think they'll wait until after any vote to sit down?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

PieMan said:



			Another scenario:

The result of the Scottish Independence referendum in 2014 is a 'yes'. Hooray - the SNP have achieved a historical triumph and a date that will go down in history. So the powers that be in London and Edinburgh now start sitting down in earnest to negotiate Scotland's break from the Union. After lengthy negotiations, a date is agreed, but it is not before the next Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016.

2016 comes around and the SNP lose that general election, to be replaced by Labour (or a Lib / Lab coalition). As Labour and the Liberals do not want independence, the new First Minister turns round to the UK PM and says "actually, we now want to remain in the Union" - what happens then?
		
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Revolution! Not every Labour/Lib Dem supporter is against Independence btw.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

Just think of it as Scots shares in Company UK.
We are not just going to hand it to the rest of the UK
The Scots did more than thier share of building it up and keeping it safe.
Look on any WW1 memorial in the Highlands and then take a look at the present population of that area.

Why do you think the English politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland in the Union.

The percentage of tax revenue from Scotland is higher than England as we have more in employment and fewer benifit takers. One of the joys of smaller country.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			We're currently part of The UK, and as such any resource is owned jointly.The most obvious one's sited in Scotland is Coulport & Faslane.They're so vital to The UK it's difficult to over-egg.But a free and independent Scotland want's no part of that, so we'd concede (after alot of negotiations) that RUK can continue to use Coulport for the next 10-15 years until you've built your own, cos that's how long it will take.

It's a divorce, someone is leaving home, but the furniture and joint bank account have to be divied up.

The Falklands is a funny one.I used it as an example of an overseas territory that 30 years ago English,Scottish,Welsh and Irish men died to protect, there's Scottish personel down there right now.I'd take a guess Scotland would walk away from it quite happily, it'll just be another bargaining tool for us to use.We'll share Embassies though, thats a cert.
		
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I see your point about divorce Adi', very well made. However some divorces are amicable, some bitter.

If Scotlands share of the national debt is allocated on this basis of your 9%, it will be saddled with debts of around Â£140billion.

Would an independent Scotland also be made to take back the Â£187billion in toxic assets of the Royal Bank of Scotland, currently held by the Treasury?





			And make no mistake, these negotiations have already started, does anyone really think they'll wait until after any vote to sit down?
		
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Who knows? One thing is for sure us, mere peasants will never know the full facts.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just think of it as Scots shares in Company UK.
We are not just going to hand it to the rest of the UK
The Scots did more than thier share of building it up and keeping it safe.
Look on any WW1 memorial in the Highlands and then take a look at the present population of that area.

Why do you think the English politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland in the Union.

The percentage of tax revenue from Scotland is higher than England as we have more in employment and fewer benifit takers. One of the joys of smaller country.
		
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As I said in reply to Adi, Droon

It works both ways. Using your company and shares analogy. 

Would you try to start a sucessful business that will immediately be saddled wth a Â£327 Billion debt?


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## Hobbit (Jun 20, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just think of it as Scots shares in Company UK.
We are not just going to hand it to the rest of the UK
The Scots did more than thier share of building it up and keeping it safe.
Look on any WW1 memorial in the Highlands and then take a look at the present population of that area.

Why do you think the English politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland in the Union.

The percentage of tax revenue from Scotland is higher than England as we have more in employment and fewer benifit takers. One of the joys of smaller country.
		
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So the Scots did more than their fair share... is a Scottish soldier's life worth more than an English soldier's life? Visit any town or city in England have a look at the numbers of dead from WW1.

And I think you'll find that the depopulation of the Highlands is more to do with jobs/industrialisation. 

As for % of tax revenue because of more employment; stats are brilliant. There's a huge amount more tax paid by English tax payers than by Scottish tax payers. The ratio of tax payer to benefit takers may be better in Scotland but the actual sums of money paid into the Treasury by income tax payer in England. There's 31million employed in England, and 2.4million employed in Scotland...

Think your interpretation leaves a lot to be desired.


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## PieMan (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Not every Labour/Lib Dem supporter is against Independence btw.
		
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I accept that, but as the Labour and Lib Dem leaders in Scotland still (I think) take their manifesto's from the overall party leadership in the rest of the UK, if that is against independence then that throws up an interesting scenario.

I also take your point Adi about the negotiations, but I reckon they're probably not as advanced or amicable as you may think given the stance of the respective parties involved, and as such the steer being given to civil servants. It will certainly be interesting to see how this develops over the next 18 - 24 months.


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## Stub (Jun 20, 2012)

Independence every time...the sooner the better. Sadly, as an Englishman living in England I don't expect to get a vote but let's hope the SNP win the day.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			I see your point about divorce Adi', very well made. However some divorces are amicable, some bitter.

If Scotlands share of the national debt is allocated on this basis of your 9%, it will be saddled with debts of around Â£140billion.

Would an independent Scotland also be made to take back the Â£187billion in toxic assets of the Royal Bank of Scotland, currently held by the Treasury?




Who knows? One thing is for sure us, mere peasants will never know the full facts.
		
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Think the figure is closer to Â£100Billion, but aye, that sounds fair.

As for RBoS, no chance, and there is precedence and international law to back this up.Most of the debt accrued by RBoS,HBoS etc was done in the square mile in the City of London.
Each nation is responsible for the proportion of debt that area accrued, so we'd be in for about 8%, London wide boys 92%.See Fortis Dexia bank and the benelux coutries & France for precedence.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Would you try to start a sucessful business that will immediately be saddled wth a Â£327 Billion debt?
		
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That figure is totally inaccurate mate, so wildly wrong it's worrying you actually believe it.



Hobbit said:



			And I think you'll find that the depopulation of the Highlands is more to do with jobs/industrialisation.
		
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Wrong.So wrong.

The Highland clearances were a result of The Duke of Sutherland, at the behest of the Westminster government forcibly removing the locals so sheep could graze on their land.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Think the figure is closer to Â£100Billion, but aye, that sounds fair.

As for RBoS, no chance, and there is precedence and international law to back this up.Most of the debt accrued by RBoS,HBoS etc was done in the square mile in the City of London.
Each nation is responsible for the proportion of debt that area accrued, so we'd be in for about 8%, London wide boys 92%.See Fortis Dexia bank and the benelux coutries & France for precedence.
		
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So the 8% of RBS debt equates to around Â£14.96Bn. Add this to Â£140Bn gives a total of Â£154.96Bn as national debt. With potentially more negotiation dependant.

Couple the above with a debt reduction plan, similar to the one currently being felt across the Eurozone and UK

Not the Idea start for a new country is it?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			That figure is totally inaccurate mate, so wildly wrong it's worrying you actually believe it.



Wrong.So wrong.

The Highland clearances were a result of The Duke of Sutherland, at the behest of the Westminster government forcibly removing the locals so sheep could graze on their land.
		
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The first time it was the Duke, ably assisted by locals (as usual). The second time would have been via mass urbanisation which took place throughout Europe in the late 1800's.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			So the 8% of RBS debt equates to around Â£14.96Bn. Add this to Â£140Bn gives a total of Â£154.96Bn as national debt. With potentially more negotiation dependant.

Couple the above with a debt reduction plan, similar to the one currently being felt across the Eurozone and UK

Not the Idea start for a new country is it?
		
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UK liability for RBS/HBoS was Â£88 Billion, so Â£7Billion to Scotland, add in the Â£140b (which I think is closer to Â£100b) and you get Â£147Billion as you calculate, I reckon Â£110 is more accurate.

GDP for Scotland in 08 was Â£145Billion, that, I think, excludes whisky,oil/gas.

We'd like to start with a clean slate, but thats unlikely.I reckon we could manage...infact, give it 5 years after independence, and I would bet our credit rating,debt exposure and overall financial health would be much,much better than Englands.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			UK liability for RBS/HBoS was Â£88 Billion, so Â£7Billion to Scotland, add in the Â£140b (which I think is closer to Â£100b) and you get Â£147Billion as you calculate, I reckon Â£110 is more accurate.

GDP for Scotland in 08 was Â£145Billion, that, I think, excludes whisky,oil/gas.

We'd like to start with a clean slate, but thats unlikely.I reckon we could manage...infact, give it 5 years after independence, and I would bet our credit rating,debt exposure and overall financial health would be much,much better than Englands.
		
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An interesting article from the Independant:





			Taxpayer Scotland, which is linked to the London-based Taxpayers' Alliance organisation, estimates Scotland's debt could be as high as Â£189bn, even before taking into account its share of the national debt.


Adding in Scotland's Â£80bn share of the UK's Â£940bn national debt suggests it might face a Â£269bn burden, costing more than Â£10bn in annual interest payments.


The report by Taxpayer Scotland warns that even with annual oil and gas revenues of Â£6bn, the country spends Â£9bn more every year than it generates in revenues.


"Scotland continues to practice Ponzi scheme government, with little sign of any understanding that this can only end in real problems for the public purse â€“ especially if English beneficence is taken out of present balances and even if all oil revenues become Scotland's," said the report.


The Barnett formula hands 10p of every Â£1 the Government distributes to Scotland. To replace this money at present would require Scotland to borrow Â£7.5bn every year and Taxpayer Scotland says the country's annual deficit would be "much nearer" to 30pc of GDP than the 15pc calculated by the latest Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland report.



Related Articles

Independence vote could hit finance industry
15 Jan 2012

Scotland warned it could lose the pound and be forced to join euro
11 Jan 2012

Scottish independence: a history of Anglo-Scottish rivalry
11 Jan 2012

Cameron: Scottish nationalists want 'neverendum' not referendum
11 Jan 2012

An independent Scotland would struggle for AAA rating
11 Jan 2012


"Clearly, the present Keynesian overspend in response to the 'credit crunch' downturn is unsustainable, but even our normal year overspend of between 10pc and 15pc (depending on how you view the Barnett subsidy) is above the OECD average and, in our view, unsustainable," said the report.

Scotland's financial health has become a matter of heated debate as the prospect of a referendum on its independence has risen up the political agenda.

Jim Leaviss, a fund manager at M&G, this month presented his own analysis of Scotland's creditworthiness in which he argued the country would be unlikely to carry over the UK's AAA rating if it were to go it alone.

Among the issues identified by Mr Leaviss was the problem of what share of the toxic liabilities of Scottish-based lenders HBOS and Royal Bank of Scotland should be taken at independence.

Speaking last week, Scotland's First Minister, Alex Salmond, said the country would not be liable for any of the banks' debts
		
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The bit of this that got may attention was servicing the debt/year (Circa Â£10bn).


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## JustOne (Jun 20, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			As for % of tax revenue because of more employment; stats are brilliant. There's a huge amount more tax paid by English tax payers than by Scottish tax payers. The ratio of tax payer to benefit takers may be better in Scotland but the actual sums of money paid into the Treasury by income tax payer in England. There's 31million employed in England, and 2.4million employed in Scotland...
.
		
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I'm sure 9% of not much is not much :thup: Let's hope they have a few big earners.

Totally agree with Murphthemog about 'cherry picking', as I said in one of my previous posts it would be pointless if Scotland ended up being a parasite at the top of the Island. Is that independence or humiliation? We could change it to Spongeland if you like? 

And YES you can definitely have the Bank of Scotland back!!!!


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			An interesting article from the Independant:




The bit of this that got may attention was servicing the debt/year (Circa Â£10bn).
		
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaxPayers'_Alliance

Imagine a conservative lobbyist producing numbers that might help the no vote!

Just for balance ( and more open point of view) if you have the time, read this>it's quite a lot, but interesting none-the-less

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/inde...ionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TaxPayers'_Alliance

Imagine a conservative lobbyist producing numbers that might help the no vote!

Just for balance ( and more open point of view) if you have the time, read this>it's quite a lot, but interesting none-the-less

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/inde...ionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

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I'll have a read shortly pal. I'd be interested to read it as I like a balanced debate :thup:

Being serious for a second though.

If that figure is a fair reflection on how much it will cost to annually service the independant national debt.

Do you think Scotland has a large enough GDP and revenue base (Tax) to service such a massive debt in the long term?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 20, 2012)

Gareth said:



			I'll have a read shortly pal. I'd be interested to read it as I like a balanced debate :thup:

Being serious for a second though.

If that figure is a fair reflection on how much it will cost to annually service the independant national debt.

Do you think Scotland has a large enough GDP and revenue base (Tax) to service such a massive debt in the long term?
		
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We could deal with it yes, but it would destroy any plans for employment/work places/hospitals that we need to address.I'm highly suspicious of the number,though.

I'd want independence anyway, the right to self determination is about more than money.

As an aside, I think it would be good for England too.I dunno how it's happened, but being a proud Englishman has somehow recently turned into being a rightwing nut job, and I'm not sure how or why.


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## One Planer (Jun 20, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			We could deal with it yes, but it would destroy any plans for employment/work places/hospitals that we need to address.I'm highly suspicious of the number,though.

I'd want independence anyway, the right to self determination is about more than money.

As an aside, I think it would be good for England too.I dunno how it's happened, but being a proud Englishman has somehow recently turned into being a rightwing nut job, and I'm not sure how or why.
		
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I would agree with this.

I'm not for or against Scottish independence I don't really have an opinion on it, however, the split must be fair to both parties and as amicable as possible.

I.E No Cherry picking :rofl:


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## JustOne (Jun 20, 2012)

Independence is like wasting your 40yr marriage on one fling. Inviting but such a waste!

Once divorced you have to hand back your keys and NO you can't pop over to do your laundry!

Of courses, someone else WILL be sleeping in your bed.... we'll find new priorities and move on


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

I love picking cherries. They taste a lot better than supermarket rubbish. 

On another note, i think the way this debate has gone, is so refreshing, not turning into a slagging match. 

Thank you to most of you's, for your informed input. :thup:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

The newsnett piece was quite an eye opener.
Thanks for that.


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## Dellboy (Jun 20, 2012)

I vote for yes, but only if you take back my wife !!  :thup:


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

Dellboy said:



			I vote for yes, but only if you take back my wife !!  :thup:
		
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:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

My English wife and two daughters are SNP supporters. I am not.
Does that mean as a Scot I have to return to England.
I have lived 21 years in Scotland, 30 in England then another 14 in Scotland..


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## munro007 (Jun 20, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			My English wife and two daughters are SNP supporters. I am not.
Does that mean as a Scot I have to return to England.
I have lived 21 years in Scotland, 30 in England then another 14 in Scotland..
		
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My god, i didn't think you were that old.  :thup:


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## sev112 (Jun 20, 2012)

The Faslane thing always gets me  - ie "we dont want it"

I was working in Devonport on the nuclear sub docks when the work was taken and given to Faslane, because they bid for it and made a better case for it.  plymouth was certainly not very happy to lose it, and as i remember Scotland seemed very happy to have it.

i am certainly sure that Plymouth would take that multi-billion contract that has just been announced back right now


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

The multi- billion contract is going to Derby.


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## sev112 (Jun 20, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The multi- billion contract is going to Derby.
		
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Blimey they must have good seismically justified dry docks there


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 20, 2012)

The contract was for the reactors.


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## Scadge (Jun 20, 2012)

I voted against independence, I'm a proud Englishman but believe in the Union, and love all the local rivalry with Scotland, Wales and Ireland.  I'm an educated guy but don't claim to understand all the financial implications, and the relative debt and earnings prospects of the countries independently.  I do however think that in a global market all other things being equal bigger is better and we have more clout acting together and I have a sneaky feeling that the economic powerhouse is London and the South East which is why 15m people live there rather than Scotland which has nearer 5.  

If the debate is about how to divide the legacy of the union and its assets then every member of the union should get a vote - it seems to me to be odd that the group who want to leave the union also believe they should dictate how the assets are divided and also that they should have access to currency, export markets, financial infrastructure etc.

I hope I never see the day and especially not so soon after the diamond Jubilee and a year in which I hope that British athletes do us all proud in the UK hosted Olympics


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## HughJars (Jun 21, 2012)

munro007 said:



			I think its good to here what both side have to say. 

Click to expand...

Exactly, so your poll should have had two questions, one for what the English would like, and one for Scots. Now with a combined vote, who knows what the make up of the voting was?


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## Snelly (Jun 21, 2012)

I am a big supporter of Scottish independence.  My reasoning is mostly based on my hope that if it goes through, the Scots will for the first time ever, stop their incessant moaning about England.


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## munro007 (Jun 21, 2012)

Snelly were not the ones moaning about Scottish golf.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2012)

munro007 said:



			Snelly were not the ones moaning about Scottish golf.  

Click to expand...

Shuperb 007!!

Seems to be a conection between the more arrogant anti-scots posts and the pro independent voting


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## munro007 (Jun 21, 2012)

21 votes each, come on the yes votes :clap:


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## CliveW (Jun 21, 2012)

I definately think that The Falklands should be independant from Argentina.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 21, 2012)

CliveW said:



			I definately think that The Falklands should be independant from Argentina.
		
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Unless they discover oil, then you can get the British 9%.


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## Snelly (Jun 21, 2012)

munro007 said:



			Snelly were not the ones moaning about Scottish golf.  

Click to expand...

Neither am I.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 21, 2012)

Snelly said:



			I am a big supporter of Scottish independence.  My reasoning is mostly based on my hope that if it goes through, the Scots will for the first time ever, stop their incessant moaning about England.
		
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A wee bit unfair.Most of the sensible people I know don't moan about England, just Westminster and how they treat Scotland,mainly financially.Remember, we were the guinea pigs for the Poll Tax, something that still raises hackles up here.
And right now, we're gonna have Conservative governments for the forseeable future, and I'm sure you aware we have more Pandas than Tory MP's in Scotland, a sure sign of obvious political differences between Scotland and England.


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## Snelly (Jun 21, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			A wee bit unfair.Most of the sensible people I know don't moan about England, just Westminster and how they treat Scotland,mainly financially.Remember, we were the guinea pigs for the Poll Tax, something that still raises hackles up here.
And right now, we're gonna have Conservative governments for the forseeable future, and I'm sure you aware we have more Pandas than Tory MP's in Scotland, a sure sign of obvious political differences between Scotland and England.
		
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Unfair? Maybe.  A generalisation?  Certainly.  However, it would seem to have a pretty firm basis in my experience.  A glance through any GM forum thread that has any connection to Scotland invariably gives the point some credence.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 21, 2012)

Snelly said:



			Unfair? Maybe.  A generalisation?  Certainly.  However, it would seem to have a pretty firm basis in my experience.  A glance through any GM forum thread that has any connection to Scotland invariably gives the point some credence.
		
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Football and the frequency of The Open in Scotland, one we're generally the poorer cousin of England internationally and certainly domestically, plus football is about as tribal as it gets in Scotland, just look at the Rangers thread for that.

Golf, well, it's our game, we've given it to the world and since the beginning of the 20th Century England then America stole!The R&A run the open and are based in Scotland, it's about the only thing we have and are pretty protective of it.


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## CMAC (Jun 21, 2012)

I cant read every post here (nor want to) but a few I've gleaned were quite interesting and informative.

My understanding of history is that Scotland HAD independence and it was a disaster..............what's to stop history repeating itself?

Alex Salmond is an egotistical 'politician' that is driven to have his name against something massive, independence in my opinion will cripple Scotland financially...........

United we stand, divided..............


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## CliveW (Jun 21, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			My understanding of history is that Scotland HAD independence and it was a disaster..............what's to stop history repeating itself?
		
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Oh do explain.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 21, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			Alex Salmond is an egotistical 'politician' that is driven to have his name against something massive, independence in my opinion will cripple Scotland financially...........
		
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What politician isn't egotistical?...and care to back up the cripple claim with any facts?


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## One Planer (Jun 21, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			What politician isn't egotistical?...and care to back up the cripple claim with any facts?
		
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I would "guess" Darth is thinking along the same lines I was and taking into account the potential national debt and its servicing costs.

Look at it this way. 

Scotland go independant and take their share of the national debt Â£110Bn (Your figure)

Portugal has a national debt is around the Â£122Bn (â‚¬153Bn) mark. They have double the population of Scotland at just over 10.5m, so a larger potential tax base and look at the rumors surrounding their economy and potential EU bail-outs.


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## GreiginFife (Jun 21, 2012)

Gareth said:



			I would "guess" Darth is thinking along the same lines I was and taking into account the potential national debt and its servicing costs.

Look at it this way. 

Scotland go independant and take their share of the national debt Â£110Bn (Your figure)

Portugal has a national debt is around the Â£122Bn (â‚¬153Bn) mark. They have double the population of Scotland at just over 10.5m, so a larger potential tax base and look at the rumors surrounding their economy and potential EU bail-outs.
		
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Not sure we can be compared to Portugal. Different taxation system (i.e. they don't pay the same rates, don't have Nat Ins etc) not sure their VAT system is the same either. Also Portugal doesn't have huge amounts of natural resources, nor exportable commodities that Scotland has (granted mainly Whisky but a lot of it). Yep Portugal has tourism, but so do we to an extent. 
Bit apples and bananas comparison IMO.


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## One Planer (Jun 21, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Not sure we can be compared to Portugal. Different taxation system (i.e. they don't pay the same rates, don't have Nat Ins etc) not sure their VAT system is the same either. Also Portugal doesn't have huge amounts of natural resources, nor exportable commodities that Scotland has (granted mainly Whisky but a lot of it). Yep Portugal has tourism, but so do we to an extent. 
Bit apples and bananas comparison IMO.
		
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I see your point.

Would Ireland be a more fair comparison at â‚¬123Bn and 4.5M people?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 21, 2012)

Gareth said:



			I would "guess" Darth is thinking along the same lines I was and taking into account the potential national debt and its servicing costs.

Look at it this way. 

Scotland go independant and take their share of the national debt Â£110Bn (Your figure)

Portugal has a national debt is around the Â£122Bn (â‚¬153Bn) mark. They have double the population of Scotland at just over 10.5m, so a larger potential tax base and look at the rumors surrounding their economy and potential EU bail-outs.
		
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Portugal's unemployment figure stands right now at 15%(1,575,000), Scotland 8%(220,000)...even given adjustment we're ahead of the game

I'd like to see how much taxation is in Portugal, do they pay the equivilant of NI/VAT etc?What revenue streams outside of tourism (7.5B Euro pa compared to our 4.5B Euro pa) on Port Wine do they have?...what banking/finance house/assets do they have in comparison to ours?
I guess Standard & Poor and Fitch would rate our ability to pay back loans higher than theirs, allowing borrowing at a lower level.
We've got diverse natural resources with oil/gas/wind/wave/whisky that not many countries can compete with, we've got infrastructure miles ahead of Portugal (move away from the coast and it's like going back 100 years in places)
Our inward investment, even given the current climate, is pretty amazing, with tech companies investing 1/2 Billion Â£ recently.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 21, 2012)

Gareth said:



			I see your point.

Would Ireland be a more fair comparison at â‚¬123Bn and 4.5M people?
		
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If Ireland has access to the same resources and 9% of UKPLC's assets as we do, then yes, it would be a fairer comparison, plus they're ham-strung by the euro farce and we're not.


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## CMAC (Jun 21, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			What politician isn't egotistical?...and care to back up the cripple claim with any facts?
		
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sorry, not privvy to all the financial facts, do you have all the financial facts to support it wont cripple Scotland? I'd be fascinated to see them if you have them?

Common sense dictates that for Scotland to start all its infrastructure from scratch would be multiple billions....someone mentioned Banking, is there any Scottish banks?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2012)

Darth...take it steady.
You make claims you can't back up and resort to insults and silliness.

That is the kind of English [big brother] arrogance that really annoys us.
In future please post about things you know not something you think sounds right.
Scotland is leading the world in industries such as renewables, areas of oil extraction and gaming, try to keep up to date and show a bit of respect please.


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## CMAC (Jun 21, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Darth...take it steady.
You make claims you can't back up and resort to insults and silliness.

That is the kind of English [big brother] arrogance that really annoys us.
In future please post about things you know not something you think sounds right.
Scotland is leading the world in industries such as renewables, areas of oil extraction and gaming, try to keep up to date and show a bit of respect please.
		
Click to expand...

eh???? where did that come from?

Insults? please explain?

English big brother arrogance? 

I have an opinion, I said its my opinion, and a pretty mild one at that, I don't understand your hostility


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2012)

As I don't understand your arrogance.


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## CMAC (Jun 21, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			As I don't understand your arrogance.
		
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mate, not playing games, either explain your unprovoked attack sensibly as I dont understand, you've got it wrong and I'm happy to discuss it


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 21, 2012)

'is there any Scottish banks?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 22, 2012)

DarthVega said:



			sorry, not privvy to all the financial facts, do you have all the financial facts to support it wont cripple Scotland? I'd be fascinated to see them if you have them?

Common sense dictates that for Scotland to start all its infrastructure from scratch would be multiple billions....someone mentioned Banking, is there any Scottish banks?
		
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Sure, no worries, it's all available on the internet, but your last point first..each and every bit of infrastructure is already in place, I really cannot think of one part we're missing...maybe someone could point one out?And yes, there are Scottish banks, infact I think we have just as many as England with RBS headquarters at Gogar, The Clydesdale too. 


....So to start with,the whisky industry alone contributes Â£800 million annually to the Scottish economy which bypasses Holyrood and goes directly to Westminster, then there's tourism, manufacturing, the financial sector,fishing,renewables,oil,gas, the list goes on...and on.Scotland receives less from the Union than it contributes, according to the UK government's own figures, these are facts that The Uk govt makes readily available on GERS...


http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS


Some copy and pasting for those who can't be arsed...
It needs to be pointed out that in the GERS figures a notional share of expenses for "UK national expenditure" is allocated to Scotland even though these monies are not spent in Scotland.  The London Olympics and the high speed railway between London and Birmingham are deemed to be "national expenditure".  Scotland is also allocated a share of the cost of Trident and an overblown defence budget which is wasted on aircraft carriers without planes and the cancellation of Nimrod after spending billions on the project.  The GERS figures don't represent the government expenditure of an independent Scotland accurately, they portray a worst case Westminster scenario.  In reality we'd be considerably better off.
In 2010-11, total public sector expenditure for the benefit of Scotland by the UK Government, Scottish Government and all other tiers of the public sector, plus a per capita share of debt interest payments, was Â£63.8 billion. This is equivalent to 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure.
In 2010-11, total Scottish non-North Sea public sector revenue was estimated at Â£45.2 billion, (8.3 per cent of total UK non-North Sea revenue). Including a per capita share of North Sea revenue, total Scottish public sector revenue was estimated at Â£45.9 billion (8.3 per cent of UK total public sector revenue). When an illustrative geographical share of North Sea revenue is included, total Scottish public sector revenue was estimated at Â£53.1 billion (9.6 per cent of UK total public sector revenue).
In 2010-11, the estimated current budget balance for the public sector in Scotland was a deficit of Â£14.3 billion (12.0 per cent of GDP) excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of Â£13.6 billion (11.2 per cent of GDP) including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a deficit of Â£6.4 billion (4.4 per cent of GDP) including an illustrative geographical share of North Sea revenue.
In 2010-11, the UK as a whole ran a current budget deficit, including 100 per cent of North Sea revenue, of Â£97.8 billion (6.6 per cent of GDP).
In 2010-11, Scotlandâ€™s estimated net fiscal balance was a deficit of Â£18.6 billion (15.6 per cent of GDP) when excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of Â£17.9 billion (14.7 per cent of GDP) when including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a deficit of Â£10.7 billion (7.4 per cent of GDP) when a geographical share of North Sea revenue is included.
In 2010-11, the equivalent UK position including 100 per cent of North Sea revenue, referred to in the UK Public Sector Accounts as â€˜net borrowingâ€™, was a deficit of Â£136.1 billion (or 9.2 per cent of GDP).





There is also this myth about the benefit society in Scotland...all benefits paid out in Scotland total 40% of all revenues collected from Scotland.  Across the UK as a whole, the benefits bill makes up 42% of all expenditure.
Scotland's notional share of Westminster's Department of Defence spending amounts to around Â£3.5 billion annually.  Less than Â£2 billion of that is actually spent in Scotland....the chances of an independent Scotland spending close to Â£2Billion of defence are totally remote, nothing like that would be spent, as we'd stop fighting crazy wars on the coat tales of The USA.
 Inward investment drom Amazon, Samsung, Taqa, Avaloq, FMC Technologies, Aker, Ineos, PetroChina, Dell, Gamesa, BNY Mellon, State Street, Hewlett-Packard and Mitsubishi Powers Systems have all recently announced investment in Scotland, to the tune of Â£400 million.  
What are we due from the bank bail out?...Scottish GDP in 2008 was an estimated Â£145 billion.  The cost to the UK of the RBS / HBOS bail out in 2008 was Â£88 billion.  However the actual Scottish share on a per capita basis was Â£8.8 billion, and on the debt accrued by the Scottish registered banks which would have been an independent Scotland's liability is estimated at Â£2.4 billion....the latter option is generally recognised as the accepted international form, there is precedent which I've mentioned previously.
A recent study by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) think tank, based on official tax and spending figures, concludes that Scotland's North Sea oil and gas revenues, with other taxes, means it gets no net subsidy from the rest of the UK.  And this is based upon shonky Westminster figures, which allocate a notional share of "UK national expenditure" to Scotland even though the money is actually spent in the South East of England.  So we're paying for just under 10% of the bloody Olympics.

 Westminster could very easily make it clear exactly how much Scotland puts into the Union, and exactly how much we get back in return.  After all, it's Westminster which collects all the money and allocates where it goes.  We can assume they know who pays what and who gets what.  If Scotland was indeed hopelessly dependent on UK handouts, Westminster would publish all the figures and this would pretty much kill the independence debate stone dead, as Scots would be able to quantify those so-called Union benefits in precise detail.


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## munro007 (Jun 22, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



Sure, no worries, it's all available on the internet, but your last point first..each and every bit of infrastructure is already in place, I really cannot think of one part we're missing...maybe someone could point one out?And yes, there are Scottish banks, infact I think we have just as many as England with RBS headquarters at Gogar, The Clydesdale too. 


....So to start with,the whisky industry alone contributes Â£800 million annually to the Scottish economy which bypasses Holyrood and goes directly to Westminster, then there's tourism, manufacturing, the financial sector,fishing,renewables,oil,gas, the list goes on...and on.Scotland receives less from the Union than it contributes, according to the UK government's own figures, these are facts that The Uk govt makes readily available on GERS...


http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS


Some copy and pasting for those who can't be arsed...
It needs to be pointed out that in the GERS figures a notional share of expenses for "UK national expenditure" is allocated to Scotland even though these monies are not spent in Scotland.  The London Olympics and the high speed railway between London and Birmingham are deemed to be "national expenditure".  Scotland is also allocated a share of the cost of Trident and an overblown defence budget which is wasted on aircraft carriers without planes and the cancellation of Nimrod after spending billions on the project.  The GERS figures don't represent the government expenditure of an independent Scotland accurately, they portray a worst case Westminster scenario.  In reality we'd be considerably better off.
In 2010-11, total public sector expenditure for the benefit of Scotland by the UK Government, Scottish Government and all other tiers of the public sector, plus a per capita share of debt interest payments, was Â£63.8 billion. This is equivalent to 9.3 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure.
In 2010-11, total Scottish non-North Sea public sector revenue was estimated at Â£45.2 billion, (8.3 per cent of total UK non-North Sea revenue). Including a per capita share of North Sea revenue, total Scottish public sector revenue was estimated at Â£45.9 billion (8.3 per cent of UK total public sector revenue). When an illustrative geographical share of North Sea revenue is included, total Scottish public sector revenue was estimated at Â£53.1 billion (9.6 per cent of UK total public sector revenue).
In 2010-11, the estimated current budget balance for the public sector in Scotland was a deficit of Â£14.3 billion (12.0 per cent of GDP) excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of Â£13.6 billion (11.2 per cent of GDP) including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a deficit of Â£6.4 billion (4.4 per cent of GDP) including an illustrative geographical share of North Sea revenue.
In 2010-11, the UK as a whole ran a current budget deficit, including 100 per cent of North Sea revenue, of Â£97.8 billion (6.6 per cent of GDP).
In 2010-11, Scotlandâ€™s estimated net fiscal balance was a deficit of Â£18.6 billion (15.6 per cent of GDP) when excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of Â£17.9 billion (14.7 per cent of GDP) when including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a deficit of Â£10.7 billion (7.4 per cent of GDP) when a geographical share of North Sea revenue is included.
In 2010-11, the equivalent UK position including 100 per cent of North Sea revenue, referred to in the UK Public Sector Accounts as â€˜net borrowingâ€™, was a deficit of Â£136.1 billion (or 9.2 per cent of GDP).





There is also this myth about the benefit society in Scotland...all benefits paid out in Scotland total 40% of all revenues collected from Scotland.  Across the UK as a whole, the benefits bill makes up 42% of all expenditure.
Scotland's notional share of Westminster's Department of Defence spending amounts to around Â£3.5 billion annually.  Less than Â£2 billion of that is actually spent in Scotland....the chances of an independent Scotland spending close to Â£2Billion of defence are totally remote, nothing like that would be spent, as we'd stop fighting crazy wars on the coat tales of The USA.
 Inward investment drom Amazon, Samsung, Taqa, Avaloq, FMC Technologies, Aker, Ineos, PetroChina, Dell, Gamesa, BNY Mellon, State Street, Hewlett-Packard and Mitsubishi Powers Systems have all recently announced investment in Scotland, to the tune of Â£400 million.  
What are we due from the bank bail out?...Scottish GDP in 2008 was an estimated Â£145 billion.  The cost to the UK of the RBS / HBOS bail out in 2008 was Â£88 billion.  However the actual Scottish share on a per capita basis was Â£8.8 billion, and on the debt accrued by the Scottish registered banks which would have been an independent Scotland's liability is estimated at Â£2.4 billion....the latter option is generally recognised as the accepted international form, there is precedent which I've mentioned previously.
A recent study by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) think tank, based on official tax and spending figures, concludes that Scotland's North Sea oil and gas revenues, with other taxes, means it gets no net subsidy from the rest of the UK.  And this is based upon shonky Westminster figures, which allocate a notional share of "UK national expenditure" to Scotland even though the money is actually spent in the South East of England.  So we're paying for just under 10% of the bloody Olympics.

 Westminster could very easily make it clear exactly how much Scotland puts into the Union, and exactly how much we get back in return.  After all, it's Westminster which collects all the money and allocates where it goes.  We can assume they know who pays what and who gets what.  If Scotland was indeed hopelessly dependent on UK handouts, Westminster would publish all the figures and this would pretty much kill the independence debate stone dead, as Scots would be able to quantify those so-called Union benefits in precise detail.

Click to expand...

Great read Adi. :thup:


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## One Planer (Jun 22, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			If Ireland has access to the same resources and 9% of UKPLC's assets as we do, then yes, it would be a fairer comparison
		
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Adi, you seem to have all the figures you need to answer my following question.

Do you think and independant Scotland would have the financial stability needed to  cut the Â£110Bn debt and it's servicing costs (Â£10Bn/year), as well as running a stable country and other international commitments?

If so. What form of taxation and spending/investment package would you expect to see, would there be one? Or would higher tax rates, less spending and investment be the main priority in an effort to control/reduce national debt as it is in many countries, including the UK now?






			plus they're ham-strung by the euro farce and we're not.
		
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As we discussed previous. Would Scotland be allowed to use GBP? 

Would your view on independence and financial stability be the same if Scotland were to gain independence and opted for the â‚¬ as GBP was not an option?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 22, 2012)

Why would Sterling not be an option, it would probably harm the rest of the UK more than Scotland if it were not.


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## One Planer (Jun 22, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Why would Sterling not be an option, it would probably harm the rest of the UK more than Scotland if it were not.
		
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To quote myself:




			The pound sterling is only used in the UNITED KINGDOM of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (Plus dependancies).

The Bank of England prints and distributes money for England and Wales. The Bank of Ireland, the First Trust Bank, the Northern Bank, and the Ulster Bank print the notes for Northern Ireland. The Bank of Scotland, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and the Clydesdale Bank print and distribute the notes for Scotland.

If, IF, Scotland attains its independence, it will not longer be part of the United Kingdom. 

If it's no longer part of the United Kingdom, how, legally, can it use the currency of a Union it is no longer part of?
		
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Why would it harm the remainder of the UK?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 22, 2012)

The amount of full lorries heading North on the A74 and A1 compared to the empty ones heading South.


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## One Planer (Jun 22, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The amount of full lorries heading North on the A74 and A1 compared to the empty ones heading South.
		
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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 22, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Adi, you seem to have all the figures you need to answer my following question.

Do you think and independant Scotland would have the financial stability needed to  cut the Â£110Bn debt and it's servicing costs (Â£10Bn/year), as well as running a stable country and other international commitments?

If so. What form of taxation and spending/investment package would you expect to see, would there be one? Or would higher tax rates, less spending and investment be the main priority in an effort to control/reduce national debt as it is in many countries, including the UK now?





As we discussed previous. Would Scotland be allowed to use GBP? 

Would your view on independence and financial stability be the same if Scotland were to gain independence and opted for the â‚¬ as GBP was not an option?
		
Click to expand...

Think UKPLC debt is gonna hit Â£1trillion soon?After looking at the figures again, We're into that for 9%, so Â£90 Billion.We're currently into the same figure being part of The UK, but we contribute more than our fair share to that pot, so economies of scale suggest we could handle it.
I'm not an accountant, or a politician, I just read the info provided by Westminster and use back of the fag packet sums.

We've already covered the Â£, it's already ours, we'll continue to use it,no-one has the ability or the powers to tell us not to, it's our choice.The original choice of The SNP was to apply for membership of the Eurozone, and it was one, at the time, I thought was a good one.Hindsight is 20/20,though and we dodged a bullet with that one.

The one thing to remember is that if we obtain independence, it doesn't automatically follow that The SNP will be our ruling party adifinitum...they'll probably win the following national election, but I'd guess after that Scottish Labour (after a major revamp and return to it's original values) would re-assert itself as the main party of Scotland....we're a left-leaning nation,and I'd guess we'd continue to be so, so lower taxes for the poorer, higher taxes for the richer, but mixed with highly competitive taxes for business.


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## One Planer (Jun 22, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			We've already covered the Â£, it's already ours, we'll continue to use it,no-one has the ability or the powers to tell us not to
		
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Yes, Â£Sterling is your currency as part of the union! Leave the union, leave the currency!


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 22, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Yes, Â£Sterling is your currency as part of the union! Leave the union, leave the currency!
		
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Mate, you've been given my answer, it's the same answer as Mervyn King would give, the same answer as Gideon Osbourne would give, the same answer as pretty much anyone would give, yet you chose to continue to give the wrong answer!

There are two options, continue to use it, or pay us 9% of the value of The Bank of England and we'll walk away.The second one really isn't an option as RUK don't have anything like that kind of cash(Â£22 Trillion), especially when you remove the overpaying Scots taxpayer from the fund.

So we'll continue to use our own currency.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 22, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The amount of full lorries heading North on the A74 and A1 compared to the empty ones heading South.
		
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Was that the other year carrying aggregate when they were making the A9 into a motorway. 70 miles of 40MPH average speed limit was a killer, and I only had to do it 6 times.


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## One Planer (Jun 22, 2012)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Mate, you've been given my answer, it's the same answer as Mervyn King would give, the same answer as Gideon Osbourne would give, the same answer as pretty much anyone would give, yet you chose to continue to give the wrong answer!

There are two options, continue to use it, or pay us 9% of the value of The Bank of England and we'll walk away.The second one really isn't an option as RUK don't have anything like that kind of cash(Â£22 Trillion), especially when you remove the overpaying Scots taxpayer from the fund.

So we'll continue to use our own currency.
		
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The phrase "Have your cake and eat it" Spring to mind!!

As it "seems" to be so much in favor for yourselves being independant, why has no-one suggested it before now?


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## Adi2Dassler (Jun 22, 2012)

Gareth said:



			The phrase "Have your cake and eat it" Spring to mind!!

As it "seems" to be so much in favor for yourselves being independant, why has no-one suggested it before now?
		
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No, we'll have our independence and our currency.

We did try before, in 1979, and it won a majority of the votes cast, but a caveat was placed on the vote that more than 40% of registered voters vote to make it valid.On one hand quite sneaky as generally less than 50% of registered voters vote, either down to apathy,ignorance or both.On the other hand it was fair enough.

I'm confident that if The McCrone report was public knowledge back then as it is now, we'd have won easily, but as usual Westminster stacks the deck.If we had won, we be the Abu Dhabi of the north and we'd so far out of sight of RUK financially,healthwise,education wise it wouldn't be funny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrone_report


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## patricks148 (Jun 22, 2012)

Liverbirdie said:



			Was that the other year carrying aggregate when they were making the A9 into a motorway. 70 miles of 40MPH average speed limit was a killer, and I only had to do it 6 times.
		
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A9 into a motorway, you're kidding right?

it was a couple of miles of Dual Carridgeway at most.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 22, 2012)

Patrick 
Many English people don't understand geography north of Watford, dont expect them to know where Stirling is far less anything North of it.


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## One Planer (Jun 22, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Patrick 
Many English people don't understand geography north of Watford, dont expect them to know where Stirling is far less anything North of it.
		
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Does that apply to the Scottish understanding of the English language too?


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 23, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			A9 into a motorway, you're kidding right?

it was a couple of miles of Dual Carridgeway at most.

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M80/A9 it pissed down for all 70 odd miles of it anyway, so couldn't make the signs out!!!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 23, 2012)

That would be the M80/M73 then.
Many Scottish drivers would love to see the A9 as motorway, it is a real deathtrap at the moment.  Some bits are dual carriageway others are not. This causes much frustration.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 28, 2012)

darth

Do England have any banks now?
Gives a whole new meaning to 'Diamond Geezer'.


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