# Post Impact



## kid2 (Nov 10, 2013)

I know the critical point in the swing is probably 9" either side of the ball..... But is there a proper way to swing through the ball..... ie.... Should the hands finish high above the shoulder.... Or below the shoulder..... And is this position dictated by swing type?

I'd be interested to hear the views......


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## Lump (Nov 10, 2013)

kid2 said:



			is this position dictated by swing type?
		
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Is the answer, that and the flexibility of the player.


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## JustOne (Nov 10, 2013)

kid2 said:



			... And is this position dictated by swing type?
		
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This.

Angle of attack, path, exit direction, VSP, type of release, intent, physical restriction, all these things play a part.


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## kid2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Lump said:



			Is the answer, that and the flexibility of the player.
		
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Thinking this myself Lump..... Went for a lesson last Wednesday night and my Pro gave me one drill to do for the next 3 months.... If to go back the end of January..... Basically I'm supposed to throw the club out in front of me..... Through the ball..... At the moment I'm swinging left through impact a little too soon..... He reckons that I need to keep the face squared for longer through the ball and the way to get this is to swing out after the ball... 

My problem is it feels very disconnected and feels like I'm falling over when trying it.... 

I'm just wondering does swing type and body type dictate a player being able or unable to achieve that position....


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## kid2 (Nov 10, 2013)

JustOne said:



			This.

Angle of attack, path, exit direction, VSP, type of release, intent, physical restriction, all these things play a part.
		
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How then do you know what's what James... Should a player swinging more around their bodies be swinging left straight away after impact.. Arms and hands following the body rotation... As opposed to a player swinging more up and down and going out after the ball...... And is one bad for the other... ie... A more rounded swing going out after the ball with the arms and hands not following the body rotation....


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## JustOne (Nov 10, 2013)

It's a little bit like a puzzle..... you get 9 pieces of the puzzle on the backswing and downswing and the last piece is handed to you at impact.

Different puzzle (pieces) for different swings.

If you're swinging left too soon there HAS to be a reason.... that's the cause..... it doesn't go away by trying to fix it..... you have to fix the cause. Bit like fixing the leaky tap rather than adding towels to sop up the mess.

Video, video and video are the only possible internet solution.


Not my favourite... but good vid nevertheless....

[video=youtube;bv79mrSwTfo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv79mrSwTfo[/video]


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## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2013)

kid2 said:



			I know the critical point in the swing is probably 9" either side of the ball..... But is there a proper way to swing through the ball..... ie.... Should the hands finish high above the shoulder.... Or below the shoulder..... And is this position dictated by swing type?

I'd be interested to hear the views......
		
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Generally speaking a high finish indicates that the club has remained on line after contact with the ball. Someone who comes over the top for example will tend to have a flatter finish to the swing because the club has cut across the target line on its out to in plane.


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## kid2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Heres a few Pics from the other night..... Iv stopped it at the various positions that im trying to achieve..... Apologies for the picture quality......

I know its supposed to feel weird making changes.... But this feels totally alien to me.....:lol:


Left hand frame is before the changes... Right hand is after the changes..... Exaggerated a slight bit but more or less what im working on......


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## stevelev (Nov 10, 2013)

It looks like muchbetter extension through the ball much more indicitive of a draw


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## JustOne (Nov 10, 2013)

You swing left because you have to, your set-up is wrong.. if you swing down the line you will feel like you are going to fall/step forwards because your weight is too much towards your toes. You swing left with a high right shoulder as part of a process of not falling over. I'd guess you also struggle to keep your head behind the ball and to have any 'secondary' tilt at impact. Early extension is your friend right now 

Swinging down the line isn't going to fix your set-up.

Get your posture correct and you could have a great swing.... I said COULD


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## kid2 (Nov 10, 2013)

JustOne said:



			You swing left because you have to, your set-up is wrong.. if you swing down the line you will feel like you are going to fall/step forwards because your weight is too much towards your toes. You swing left with a high right shoulder as part of a process of not falling over. *I'd guess you also struggle to keep your head behind the ball and to have any 'secondary' tilt at impact.* Early extension is your friend right now 

Swinging down the line isn't going to fix your set-up.

Get your posture correct and you could have a great swing.... I said COULD 

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What im curios about James is why this hasnt been pointed out to me by my Pro..... Seems a bit strange that im being told to get into these positions when the root cause isnt being addressed.... Sorry for the Pun...:lol:


The head behind the ball part is quite funny.... As when i feel like im doing this it feels like im scooping at the ball rather than going down after it...... 
This kind of arched bending over you see in so many supple players and pros where its like they are looking out under the ball after impact i find very hard to to..... It actually hurts my back to try and stay bent rather than be standing straight up after hitting the ball....


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## kid2 (Nov 10, 2013)

stevelev said:



			It looks like much better extension through the ball much more indicative of a draw
		
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It looks that way Pal..... But you should have seen where i sent those 2 baskets on the first try....:rofl:


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## CMAC (Nov 10, 2013)

does it matter what happens *after* you've hit the ball?

Moe Norman, Arnold Palmer, Seve, Luke Donald all have different finishes all dictated by their posture, swing and physique, but all looked very similar at impact:thup:


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## kid2 (Nov 10, 2013)

CMAC said:



			does it matter what happens *after* you've hit the ball?

:thup:
		
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In a certain way i think it does Pal..... Im pretty consistent from backswing to impact..... As you can see above its after the ball has gone i get a bit narrow.... Now when im playing well its not so much an issue.... And oddly enough iv managed to find a way to draw the ball with my 3 wood and driver when i try..... But when im off im loosing the ball straight right which isnt a good thing...... Im a good iron player but i need to get better with the driver and what i get away with playing with the irons i dont fair out so well with a driver....


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## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2013)

Kid, the picture 9 of 11 on the right looks a bit weird to me. Looks like you haven't released the club head at all.


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## JustOne (Nov 11, 2013)

kid2 said:



			What im curios about James is why this hasnt been pointed out to me by my Pro..... Seems a bit strange that im being told to get into these positions when the root cause isnt being addressed....
		
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I would really, really, really, really like to know the answer to that myself.

I understand the drill you are being shown and in a small way I think it could benefit you in the long term.... but not with that set-up, you could be there forever and not hit the ball well if you're off balance. You have to fix the cause not the symptom.


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## kid2 (Nov 11, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I would really, really, really, really like to know the answer to that myself.

I understand the drill you are being shown and in a small way I think it could benefit you in the long term.... but not with that set-up, you could be there forever and not hit the ball well if you're off balance. You have to fix the cause not the symptom.
		
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Agreed...... I think now its time to sort this myself once and for all rather than paying..... Seems a bit strange the way things are going at the moment...... In fairness I think the posture should be an easy enough quick fix to do.... I know the drill I'm doing at the moment will take time.....


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## kid2 (Nov 11, 2013)

sawtooth said:



			Kid, the picture 9 of 11 on the right looks a bit weird to me. Looks like you haven't released the club head at all.
		
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 Thtas just an exaggerated position pal.... I didn't even have a ball in the right hand pics because I was going through the positions that I need to get comfortable doing.....


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## JustOne (Nov 11, 2013)

If you sort your posture then the swing you currently have won't work..... but the new method WILL, eventually.

That's the hard bit to grasp... people change their posture then can't hit the ball... and before you know it they are back to what they used to do. Having the posture correct (step 1) will be the only way you'll ever be able to do step 2, 3, 4, 5 correctly.


As an aside...

The pic on the right is better than the left. The left hip is kicked forwards allowing the head to stay behind the ball (spine tilt) and the hands to be more forwards - looks spot on :thup:


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## kid2 (Nov 11, 2013)

JustOne said:



			If you sort your posture then the swing you currently have won't work..... but the new method WILL, eventually.

That's the hard bit to grasp... people change their posture then can't hit the ball... and before you know it they are back to what they used to do. Having the posture correct (step 1) will be the only way you'll ever be able to do step 2, 3, 4, 5 correctly.


As an aside...

The pic on the right is better than the left. The left hip is kicked forwards allowing the head to stay behind the ball (spine tilt) and the hands to be more forwards - looks spot on :thup:






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Ya.... Just need to make sure I also keep my backside against the imaginary wall too to stop the EE.... At least then ill be able to swing through properly without having to stand up so fast......


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## JustOne (Nov 11, 2013)

You're in your address posture.... in front of you there's a small table 90cm high and you lay your palms on it.... if I now made that table 85cm would you stand up to lay your hands on it or bend over more?


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## kid2 (Nov 11, 2013)

JustOne said:



			You're in your address posture.... in front of you there's a small table 90cm high and you lay your palms on it.... if I now made that table 85cm would you stand up to lay your hands on it or bend over more?
		
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Bend Over more....... 

Been doing a bit of searching...Seems that for the correct posture... I should be bent roughly 45 degrees at the waist.... A slight knee flex so that my knees cover the middle of my feet.... My shoulders as my arms hang naturally should be just at or just outside my toe line if i was to hold a club against them...And if i were to place any particular club at the ball in the address position the grip should rest about 2" above my left knee on my thigh.........


Seems easy enough to get into those positions anyway James..... No strain on any body part as such....


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## JustOne (Nov 12, 2013)

kid2 said:



			Bend Over more.......
		
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That's what impact is like.... it's like starting with a 90cm table and having an 85cm table at impact.

But your club is 90cm long.... and won't fit under the 85cm table.... so you have to lean the shaft forwards so that it fits... and in doing so you DON'T need to stand up, on the contrary, your right shoulder will be more DOWN and your hands will be more forwards as a result of leaning the shaft forwards to fit the gap. The last thing you'll be doing to fit your 90cm club into an 85cm gap is thrusting your hips forwards and standing up... does that make any sense?



At address you shouldn't be bent at the waist at all.... you should bend at the *hips* which are 5-6 inches *lower* than your waist. This tilts your pelvis slightly forwards and stops you putting any strain on your back (and hurting it). 45 degrees is a bit much... maybe 40 at most....35 with a driver. As your head goes forwards your bum *has to* go back so that you counterbalance your weight to keep it 50/50 between heels and toes.


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## kid2 (Nov 12, 2013)

JustOne said:



			That's what impact is like.... it's like starting with a 90cm table and having an 85cm table at impact.

But your club is 90cm long.... and won't fit under the 85cm table.... so you have to lean the shaft forwards so that it fits... and in doing so you DON'T need to stand up, on the contrary, your right shoulder will be more DOWN and your hands will be more forwards as a result of leaning the shaft forwards to fit the gap. The last thing you'll be doing to fit your 90cm club into an 85cm gap is thrusting your hips forwards and standing up... does that make any sense?



At address you shouldn't be bent at the waist at all.... you should bend at the *hips* which are 5-6 inches *lower* than your waist. This tilts your pelvis slightly forwards and stops you putting any strain on your back (and hurting it). 45 degrees is a bit much... maybe 40 at most....35 with a driver. As your head goes forwards your bum *has to* go back so that you counterbalance your weight to keep it 50/50 between heels and toes.
		
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Makes perfect sense pal...... I know the pic of me in the frame you showed is a little exaggerated but that's a similar position to the one I need to be in I think......
And I ment hips also rather than waist:thup:

If got the whole winter to work on this anyway pal... So hopefully it shouldn't take too long....  I think once if nailed that and the other drill I should start to get a lot more confidence in the swing and more consistency.... Onwards and upwards...


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## JustOne (Nov 12, 2013)

kid2 said:



			Makes perfect sense pal...... I know the pic of me in the frame you showed is a little exaggerated but that's a similar position to the one I need to be in I think......
		
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For a face on pic that position was a *PERFECT* *address* position (head/hips/hands/shoulders/clubshaft all perfect) :thup:

From the side (DTL view) it *might not have been* because you might be too much on your toes.


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## kid2 (Nov 12, 2013)

JustOne said:



			For a face on pic that position was a *PERFECT* *address* position (head/hips/hands/shoulders/clubshaft all perfect) :thup:

From the side (DTL view) it *might not have been* because you might be too much on your toes.
		
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Tomorrow nights range session so will be the crunch....... Posture and follow through videos to follow:thup:....


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## JustOne (Nov 12, 2013)

kid2 said:



			Tomorrow nights range session so will be the crunch....... Posture and follow through videos to follow:thup:....
		
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Very much looking forward to it.... would it help if I had my fingers crossed?


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## kid2 (Nov 12, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Very much looking forward to it.... would it help if I had my fingers crossed? 

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Fingers, toes, legs, arms... The lot :lol:

Ah ill know what to do..... Iv been fiddling here in the kitchen all night at it..... I think I have the feeling I need..


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## kid2 (Nov 13, 2013)

Please be gentle..... I know if my Pro saw this now he'd choke me for exiting too early...... Bloody hard though..... Especially when the ball flight is straight..... I forgot my alignment canes so i had nothing to stop me going left only a pair of baskets that were not high enough...
Just a couple of 7 irons....:thup:

[video=youtube;qsAyPeThyC0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsAyPeThyC0[/video]


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## JustOne (Nov 14, 2013)




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## kid2 (Nov 14, 2013)

I could take that clip in oh so many ways. .:rofl:


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## JustOne (Nov 14, 2013)

I was waiting for someone else to post rather than it always being me that drags you down into the depths of despair :thup: 

I was at least waiting for someone to say "Nice strike!" :clap:

What's your opinion of that swing when you watch it?


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## kid2 (Nov 14, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I was waiting for someone else to post rather than it always being me that drags you down into the depths of despair :thup: 

I was at least waiting for someone to say "Nice strike!" :clap:

What's your opinion of that swing when you watch it?
		
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Dont worry about it... I take all criticism as constructive not destructive.. :thup:

Anyway the strike was straight out of the middle.... That's the handy thing about forged clubs......

That swing looks more balanced in that I'm not swaying so much after impact... It felt comfortable and not forced... 150 yard marker with a bad right to left wind and I was happy...... 

 What I'm not happy with was the exit left... Although the club was coming into view higher than last year's swing I'm still struggling to follow the ball out with the club..... I think the EE is minimised a little as well........ How my doing so far?


Iv been reading so much stuff lately about one plane swings and how the worst piece of advice that can be given to a one plane swinger is to swing down the target line after the ball... It's making me ask questions now when I'm swinging left after impact but the ball is either going straight or has a slight draw with the mid and short irons and has a slight fade with the longer irons...... 

It's when I try and swing out after the ball is when I'm shanking and pushing the ball .....


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## kid2 (Nov 14, 2013)

As an aside..... I might be a tad inside at the parallel to the ground stage on the backswing and a tad flat at the top.... But I know to fix that is only a matter of the takeaway being a slight bit wider rather than coming inside too early....


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## Lump (Nov 14, 2013)

I'll bite on some constructive criticism. (Your a single figure golfer now, it's not about destroying your swing but tweaking elements to make it repeatable)

I would still feel like your 'sat' down too much (too much leg flex), I was taught you should only flex your legs to the point you loose no height. (basically stand tall with straight legs, and then just let them flex naturally. i.e no sitting down).

Now to a little annoyance to people who take back on the inside, your little waggles. STOP THEM, they are not helping. You need to change your pre shot routine. (your waggles currently train your hands to pick the club up and inside) Try changing your waggle to more of a back outside practice takeaway (I know a pro does this but I'm struggling to name him).

You obviously know about the flat swing, so I'll leave that alone.
Your so close to tuning a very repeatable swing, it all depends on how much you want to change it and not affect your current ability.


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## kid2 (Nov 14, 2013)

Lump said:



			I'll bite on some constructive criticism. (Your a single figure golfer now, it's not about destroying your swing but tweaking elements to make it repeatable)

I would still feel like your 'sat' down too much (too much leg flex), I was taught you should only flex your legs to the point you loose no height. (basically stand tall with straight legs, and then just let them flex naturally. i.e no sitting down).

Now to a little annoyance to people who take back on the inside, your little waggles. STOP THEM, they are not helping. You need to change your pre shot routine. (your waggles currently train your hands to pick the club up and inside) Try changing your waggle to more of a back outside practice takeaway (I know a pro does this but I'm struggling to name him).

You obviously know about the flat swing, so I'll leave that alone.
Your so close to tuning a very repeatable swing, it all depends on how much you want to change it and not affect your current ability.
		
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Its ok Pal..... Criticize away...:thup:
The weird thing is that im not swinging the way my Pro wants me swinging...... I think he's more of a traditionalist in terms of swing...... To be honest your probably right about the waggles.... I started that raic a few weeks ago as it was helping me to keep myself loose and stay moving before I started the swing.... Before I was pretty quite doing it..... 

As for the tweeks..... There are 2 things that really helped me with my own swing outside of my Pro wanting me to swing down the line and they are having my left hip higher at address than the right and to try and keep it kicked towards the target throughout the backswing..... it also helps with anyone that has a reverse pivot....

Secondly even though you see in my practice swings that it looks like im swinging down the line the way I should be.... But this is just a feeling that I have so that I can attack the ball from inside the target line...... it has stopped me throwing it outside the plane line no end.....

Iv always been flat and I don't think that's ever going to change.... But what im currently trying to do is find the little fixes that help a one plane swing rather than have a mix match of elements of both one and two plane.....
Ideally what im after is a swing that repeats and is consistent.... Irons for me are my strong point.... 3 wood and hybrid also.... If I can settle the driver and not loose it right so often then ill be a happy camper......
The swing you see above is the one that has dropped 5 shots off my handicap this season alone which is why im now starting to ask questions


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

Set up...

Pic on the left shows a position you are in as you address the ball, *it's nice*..... if you widen your stance here you're good to go :thup:

However, pic on the right shows that you then back AWAY from the ball with your feet as you complete your address.







Now have lost that hip depth, you have lost some spine angle (more upright on the right) , your arms are angled more away from your body, your bum is not there to counterbalance your weight. By backing your feet away you are actually reaching for the ball more. Someone who stands more upright would actually stand CLOSER to the ball.


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

Backswing....

On the left shows one of your little practice backswings (you can see the blur of the club head).... I've drawn a line on it on the right to show some kind of a plane...

PERFECT, swing up this plane and you're in good shape for a nice one plane swing 









Now I've added a 3rd picture on the right to show where you ACTUALLY swing the club, again you can see the blur of the club head...







That's not a one plane swing, that's a very much 'under plane and around your shins' type swing. From here you are in big trouble as you'll HAVE TO get the club onto a higher plane before making a downswing.

Did you never see this? 

 [video=youtube;8crIFt786jg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8crIFt786jg[/video]


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

Downswing.... 2 parts.....

part No1 (the blurs you see here are the club *shaft*, the club head is harder to see as I've drawn lines over it) :thup:

You do an amazing job of getting the club to come back down moderately close to the original shaft plane.... it's ALL compensation and contorting to do so and as a result your exit is going to be screwed, but your ability to do this is what has helped your h/cap fall this year. It's the only reason you get the club on the ball... come a little higher down or lower down and it's shanksville. Pure timing and hand co-ordination.







I like this quite a lot..... it's just a shame that you're going to be inconsistent with it.... 

your other swing was off plane... this one is just steep... (good job you're about to chicken wing your left arm)


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

Downswing part 2

Thru impact you throw the club and you stop turning, your right shoulder never turns down to the ball, it hangs back and it's HIGH, it is working OUT, rather than out, down and forwards on a diagonal path. The club swings past you and you chicken wing.

Your right hip has stopped turning, your left hip is not deep (it can't be because your right shoulder isn't working downwards). I can take a guess that you do not have your head behind the ball, your chest is opening and you are chicken winging to avoid thumping the ground. You are even losing your spine angle in an effort to shallow the club. what is happening is your swing is stalling.... whatever shaft angle you had coming into the impact area is lost... and now you have to extend to avoid hitting a really steep/heavy shot.

Here's me and you side by side at about the same place in our swings, my left hip is deep, my right shoulder turned down and turning thru the ball, no chicken wing, nice retaining of spine tilt towards the ball.. hands were forwards thru impact whilst the head stayed back..







with some lines drawn on (heel to hip angle and spines) it looks like this...


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

So... work on your posture... take the club up on the plane that you did in that practice swing (not around your shins), and as you start your downswing think about your head staying behind the ball..... a lot behind the ball, whilst your hands get forwards and your right shoulder turns more down.... and then diagonally.

If you want to turn your shoulders down properly (right shoulder comes down then out to the ball) then you need to watch the first 1min 25sec of this video....where he says the swing is 1.2.3

[video=youtube;rp4EN5bc3yg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=rp4EN5bc3yg[/video]


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## kid2 (Nov 15, 2013)

Cheers pal.... Really appreciate it..... It probably sounds a whole lot worse than it really is..

From what I can take is that if the posture gets sorted id imagine most if not all the rest should start falling into place..... I must have weird hand eye coordination to be able to even hit the ball:lol:....

I'm off to the range again this evening after work so I'll work on the above..... :thup:


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## Foxholer (Nov 15, 2013)

kid2 said:



			I know the *critical point in the swing is probably 9" either side of the ball*..... But is there a proper way to swing through the ball..... ie.... Should the hands finish high above the shoulder.... Or below the shoulder..... And is this position dictated by swing type?

I'd be interested to hear the views......
		
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Whatever makes that 18" the best for you imo! If you look at Pros, there are several (at least 3) different ways, so I don't believe that a particular way is 'best' overall.

Btw. I'd say it's 2-3 feet before impact and 18" after. Maybe just my way of hitting through (rather than at) the ball though.


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## kid2 (Nov 15, 2013)

Foxholer said:



			Whatever makes that 18" the best for you imo! If you look at Pros, there are several (at least 3) different ways, so I don't believe that a particular way is 'best' overall.

Btw. I'd say it's 2-3 feet before impact and 18" after. Maybe just my way of hitting through (rather than at) the ball though.
		
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The funny thing is though pal..... You can see from what James has seen there are issues... And I know fir every action there's a reaction..... I play very well when my timing is right.... There's things that I can change though that will make my swing more efficient..... At the moment to the naked eye it probably looks fine... And I don't care how it looks... What I'm after is one that repeats without too many compensations....  I'm at a stage now where it can be rectified and I learn more and more every time someone sees something different.....

What has me baffled is why after 8 lessons these things haven't been highlighted... Seems a bit strange..... 
If it's a case that I can't achieve these changes that I need to then I'll just pick away at it until I'm happy that it won't break down under pressure....


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

You can't have a good swing when you do this... (well it's damn hard to)







and that's the bottom line.

The only question is.... do you want a good swing? If you do then don't swing like that... if you don't care then don't worry any more and just carry on as you are.


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## kid2 (Nov 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			You can't have a good swing when you do this... (well it's damn hard to)







and that's the bottom line.

The only question is.... do you want a good swing? If you do then don't swing like that... if you don't care then don't worry any more and just carry on as you are.
		
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Well contrary to some on here telling me I should stop looking for a nice swing I feel that it's a knock on effect of getting in good positions.... The swing will look somewhat ok of I'm swinging the way I should be......

And some may argue that my swing looks fine as it is and to just tweek here and there.....

What I want is reliability.... And if I have to go through 6 months again of changes then so be it.... As you said yourself I did a great job of getting to 9 with this swing but I think the main reason was I'm a good putter and I have a decent short game..... I won't lie.... I had a 2 way miss and I wasn't impressed when I wasn't hitting the ball well.... I dontvwant another year of that pal...


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## Lump (Nov 15, 2013)

The takeaway IMO is one of the easiest pieces of your swing to change. Its just repetition of the correct movement and it will make such a massive difference to your swing. NO if's or buts, it will help..... How do I know? I use to do the exact same thing, I'd pick the club up and take it straight inside (But unlike you, I threw the club at the top as a result). Once I got rid of this movement, changing other parts of my swing became childs play. 
You should be able to change it within a couple of range sessions.


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## kid2 (Nov 15, 2013)

Lump said:



			The takeaway IMO is one of the easiest pieces of your swing to change. Its just repetition of the correct movement and it will make such a massive difference to your swing. NO if's or buts, it will help..... How do I know? I use to do the exact same thing, I'd pick the club up and take it straight inside (But unlike you, I threw the club at the top as a result). Once I got rid of this movement, changing other parts of my swing became childs play. 
You should be able to change it within a couple of range sessions.
		
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Thanks for the heads up pal... And my other post was in no way directed at you either about people telling me I should play what I have.... It's when I get posts from people that have been through similar issues as me it lifts me to know it's not so bad and that it shouldn't be too hard to achieve.. Cheers :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 15, 2013)

I wonder what people would think of Furyk swing if they saw it for the first time without knowing who he was !

A swing is a means to get the ball flight you want - you could have the ugliest swing in the world and be in no coaching manual but if the ball flight is what you want then it doesn't matter.


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## kid2 (Nov 15, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder what people would think of Furyk swing if they saw it for the first time without knowing who he was !

A swing is a means to get the ball flight you want - you could have the ugliest swing in the world and be in no coaching manual but if the ball flight is what you want then it doesn't matter.
		
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To a point I agree with you.... My ball flight is good.... I'm not a short hitter and iv a decent short game.... But when I'm off it's ugly........ But the difference between furyk and me is that his body works with his swing.... Mine at the moment is working against me.....

Iv lost so many shots left and right off the tees this season that my iron play and short game soared to a point I didn't care if I hit or missed greens.....

I got so much practice from the army golf it actually worked in my favour...:lol:


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder what people would think of Furyk swing if they saw it for the first time without knowing who he was !
		
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Furyk was a state champion at 18yrs old, between the ages of 13/16 I'm sure lots of people probably wanted to change his swing but he kept knocking in great scores as he improved.... unlike Kid2 who probably doesn't have a PB less than 75. If he was banging in 67's every week I'd tell him not to change, unless it was hurting his body.

Wanting to improve and tinkering with your swing is part of this game. No one that I know of just picked up a set of clubs then set about shooting their PB without tinkering in some way.


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## virtuocity (Nov 15, 2013)

JO- do a swing review of Furyk please!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Furyk was a state champion at 18yrs old, between the ages of 13/16 I'm sure lots of people probably wanted to change his swing but he kept knocking in great scores as he improved.... unlike Kid2 who probably doesn't have a PB less than 75. If he was banging in 67's every week I'd tell him not to change, unless it was hurting his body.

Wanting to improve and tinkering with your swing is part of this game. No one that I know of just picked up a set of clubs then set about shooting their PB without tinkering in some way.
		
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I don't tinker with my swing but keep on improving

Tinkering with the swing is not always the answer , finding the perfect swing is not always the answer 

Finding the right ball flight is the answer - regardless how the swing looks.


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## JustOne (Nov 15, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't tinker with my swing but keep on improving

Tinkering with the swing is not always the answer , finding the perfect swing is not always the answer 

Finding the right ball flight is the answer - regardless how the swing looks.
		
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So why doesn't his PGA professional that he has lessons with just tell him to sod off and use the swing he has?


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## Jimbooo (Nov 16, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't tinker with my swing but keep on improving

Tinkering with the swing is not always the answer , finding the perfect swing is not always the answer 

Finding the right ball flight is the answer - regardless how the swing looks.
		
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How do you find the right ball flight?


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## kid2 (Nov 16, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't tinker with my swing but keep on improving

Tinkering with the swing is not always the answer , finding the perfect swing is not always the answer 

Finding the right ball flight is the answer - regardless how the swing looks.
		
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Looking at my swing from outside the box it probably looks ok....  Tempo and rhythm look fine.... But Its not functioning the way *I* would like it to..... I can stand on one tee and hit a lovely big high draw.... Then on the following hole stand on the tee again setup for the same shot and hit it straight right..... This is what I'm trying to minimise..... Conversely I can stand open and hit a cut when I want.... The reason I can do this is that I come back to the ball pretty much on the same plane I had at address..... *But*.... This is all heavily dependent on timing..... And if it's off I'm missing left and right which isn't nice......  I'm also aware that there no such thing as a perfect swing and I'm not looking for a swing that looks nice..... I want a functional repeatable reliable swing.... I want to get to CAT 1 and I want to maintain it..... Anything I put my hand at I'll always try and achieve the best I possibly can with it... I wouldnt say I'm a perfectionist..... I believe there are flaws in all things if you look deep enough... But it's minimizing these is the goal for me..... My swing plane was a major change for me as I was throwing the club at outside the plane at the top... Iv stopped doing this since taking the lessons and worked hard on a better swing plane.. 
I'm still only 39 so I believe now is the right time to change this....

Will I ever be happy? Probably not.... If I reach 5 I'll probably want to get to 3 and so on..... It's just the way I am... And I hope I don't sound cocky or arrogant but I know I'm good enough to get there..... I don't just want to hack it around the course.... I want to play my ball around the course.... 

I respect the people that say play with what you have..... But I'm doing this and I'm not happy with having to play army golf...... Don't get me wrong..... I'm not all over the course..... But when you clip a drive straight down the middle of a fairway on one hole that leaves you with a mid or short iron approach and a few hole later you miss so far right on a whole that instead of that mid iron you've a hybrid or long iron just in get back in play it gets a bit annoying..... Ok I'm probably looking for something that my handicap at the moment doesn't warrant.... But that's the whole point of me working to get a better more reliable swing.....


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## Foxholer (Nov 16, 2013)

JustOne said:



			So why doesn't his PGA professional that he has lessons with just tell him to sod off and use the swing he has?
		
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I have a mate off 2 or 3 who was told exactly that - but to improve his short game!

In Kid's case - who will always be a tinkerer imo - the Pro may have a plan. That would be the thing I'd suggest Kid digs for. The low/inside takeaway is relatively easy to fix, so may not be a priority (though would seem sensible to fix asap to me).

It also may be somewhat 'cultural'. I find English trainers tend to be a bit more oriented to getting the backswing correct, while Irish ones may well be looking at Flight (the other end). I'm unconvinced that a 'perfect' backswing is essential, or even highly desirable. As in the OP, it's the impact zone that is where things count. Obviously, anything that can make achieving this easier every time is highly desirable - within the constraints and traits of the individual!


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## kid2 (Nov 16, 2013)

Foxholer said:



			I have a mate off 2 or 3 who was told exactly that - but to improve his short game!

In Kid's case - who will always be a tinkerer imo.....
		
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Just call me Paddy Harrington pal....


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