# US Open 2016



## Karl102 (Jun 12, 2016)

Just watching the pga highlights and they are talking about this. Very long course, Fairways that are 25 yards that run off into 6 inch rye grass.... Greens faster and more cambered than Augusta... 
Forgot who said it, but +6-8 may win...
So who do you fancy.... Johnson to break his duck? Or One of the big 3.....


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jun 12, 2016)

Paul Casey


----------



## mcbroon (Jun 12, 2016)

If it's long and the emphasis is on driving accuracy, Rory has to be in with a shout.


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 12, 2016)

Watched a video or two on Facebook.   greens looks comical.


----------



## Big D 88 (Jun 12, 2016)

Theres something more fun and enjoyable watching pro's play difficult courses so i cant wait for next week

I am thinking matsuyama, oosthuizen and obviously Ogilvy as my first picks. Will not doubt go for more as the tournament draws closer


----------



## Imurg (Jun 12, 2016)

Big D 88 said:



			Theres something more fun and enjoyable watching pro's play difficult courses so i cant wait for next week
		
Click to expand...

I'm the exact opposite.
I like watching them play difficult courses but not watching them hack around like your average weekend club golfer.
Some like it - I don't.
If they're forecasting  +6 to win it then I'm not going to pay much attention to it.
For me, there's a difference between the best player winning and the guy who makes fewest mistakes winning...


----------



## Karl102 (Jun 12, 2016)

mcbroon said:



			If it's long and the emphasis is on driving accuracy, Rory has to be in with a shout.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, but his iron play needs to be a bit better than of late!


----------



## JakeWS (Jun 12, 2016)

Rickie Fowler or Johnny Walker for me I reckon.


----------



## Big D 88 (Jun 12, 2016)

Imurg said:



			I'm the exact opposite.
I like watching them play difficult courses but not watching them hack around like your average weekend club golfer.
Some like it - I don't.
If they're forecasting  +6 to win it then I'm not going to pay much attention to it.
For me, there's a difference between the best player winning and the guy who makes fewest mistakes winning...
		
Click to expand...

Personal opinion :thup:
The player that manages the course best, usually wins regardless of the difficulty but there's an element of satisfaction watching them struggling to make par 

Each to their own though


----------



## Region3 (Jun 12, 2016)

JakeWS said:



			Rickie Fowler or *Johnny Walker* for me I reckon.
		
Click to expand...

That's a Freudian slip if ever I saw one


----------



## Region3 (Jun 12, 2016)

Big D 88 said:



			Personal opinion :thup:
The player that manages the course best, usually wins regardless of the difficulty but there's an element of satisfaction watching them struggling to make par 

Each to their own though
		
Click to expand...

Ive got no issue with seeing pros made to work to break par, but it's the way that Oakmont do it that I don't like.

Their way is "hit this tiny fairway or else you'll be wedging out of thick rough".

I'd much prefer to see "hit this big fairway in the right place or you will have to get very creative to make par".

The former makes everybody play the same way. Miss the fairway and hack out.

The latter would see players given a choice about how to get back in position.

I'll still watch it all though


----------



## Beedee (Jun 12, 2016)

If the course is going to be playing that hard I can see some very very long rounds of golf coming up.  It takes them 5 hours to shoot 67.  I dread to think how long it'll take them to shoot 77.

Will still be watching tho.  For as long as my patience lasts anyway.


----------



## Karl102 (Jun 12, 2016)

Just seen a GM Facebook videos of the greens...... Brutal


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 12, 2016)

Yep that's what I watched.   Crazy. 


Still I will be watching.   All on the same course.   Suck it up and score lower than  the next guy. 

Good chance for a lesser light to nab a major.


----------



## Garush34 (Jun 12, 2016)

It will be an interesting watch, I recon that Grace will be in with a good shout, great driver of the ball, and patient which is what will be needed for 4 rounds.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 12, 2016)

I'll watch it. I quite like the unique challenge it poses but ti does border on farcical at times. I can't imagine how tough it must be mentally this week


----------



## BrianM (Jun 13, 2016)

Karl102 said:



			Just seen a GM Facebook videos of the greens...... Brutal
		
Click to expand...

Just seen this, they look torture 
Could be some long rounds taking place, think Big Phil might break his duck and win.


----------



## Wayman (Jun 13, 2016)

Seen a few videos and pictures going about at the moment. The rough is silly. Someone will get hurt IMO. There was one picture where the guy was standing on side of fairway and the rough was above his shoe!!! No first cut or anything


----------



## Berger (Jun 13, 2016)

Justin Thomas posted a video of him dropping a ball in the rough just off the 17th green, the ball completely disappeared!

Byeong An also posted a video of him playing out of a bunker, where he landed the ball softly on the green but it still rolled about 40-50 feet away. 

I like seeing the pros challenged instead of playing target golf all the time, but it looks like Oakmont could be a step too far.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 13, 2016)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGkXqYuoOOT/

Here's the Justin Thomas clip. Mental. Good luck playing out of that.


----------



## Deleted member 3432 (Jun 13, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



https://www.instagram.com/p/BGkXqYuoOOT/

Here's the Justin Thomas clip. Mental. Good luck playing out of that.
		
Click to expand...

That is just ridiculous! 

It's going to be very dull watching everyone trying to play one dimensional golf over the next few days, certainly not much scope for anyone to show a bit of flair!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2016)

I can't wait to watch them fight for scores instead of playing on course set up for birdie golf

It will be the same for everyone with an emphasis on course management - should be great


----------



## JamesR (Jun 13, 2016)

Accurate driving, good iron play & a good caddie will be vital this week.
My money's on Adam Scott or Justin Rose


----------



## srixon 1 (Jun 13, 2016)

If the premium is on putting once you have finally  reached the green then Speith will probably be hard to beat.


----------



## Region3 (Jun 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It will be the same for everyone with an emphasis on course management - should be great
		
Click to expand...

Surely course management is deciding what shot to hit and where to hit it, and there should be more than one way to play a hole.

Sounds like Oakmont is set up to only play the course one way. Might as well just send them to topgolf if it's a test of execution rather than a test of golf.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2016)

Region3 said:



			Surely course management is deciding what shot to hit and where to hit it, and there should be more than one way to play a hole.

Sounds like Oakmont is set up to only play the course one way. Might as well just send them to topgolf if it's a test of execution rather than a test of golf.
		
Click to expand...

Will it not be a test of golf then ? The players will need to put the ball in the right place , find fairways and play sensibly - instead of what we see week in week out with players carving it all over the place yet having a perfect lie and line to the green


----------



## Hosel Fade (Jun 13, 2016)

I mean maybe its a practice round and they might just be avoiding the pinnable spots to keep the players away from them but this is very borderline, this is stone cold stiff and rolling 5 dimples a second at one point.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGkW7J7lSoz/


----------



## sawtooth (Jun 13, 2016)

Zach Johnson or Kuchar.

If greens are fast and tricked up I wouldn't be confident of Dustin Johnson or Rory's chances.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 13, 2016)

If Spieth can keep it in play he will be up there with his short game and putting. Stenson might have a chance. Rarely uses driver anyway, so keeps it in play nicely, so if he can have a good putting week he's got a chance.


----------



## Hosel Fade (Jun 13, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			If Spieth can keep it in play he will be up there with his short game and putting. Stenson might have a chance. Rarely uses driver anyway, *so keeps it in play nicely,* so if he can have a good putting week he's got a chance.
		
Click to expand...

Was ready to dispute this but a quick look at stats puts him #22 strokes gained off the tee and #13 in plain driving accuracy, don't know why I had him down as being quite wide.

Don't think he is putting or chipping anywhere near well enough to be a factor though


----------



## Big D 88 (Jun 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Will it not be a test of golf then ? The players will need to put the ball in the right place , find fairways and play sensibly - instead of what we see week in week out with players carving it all over the place yet having a perfect lie and line to the green
		
Click to expand...

This is what I alluded to earlier on in the thread. To me it shows a side to a golfers course management that we often don't see as courses on the pga tend to favour those who hit furthest regardless of direction.

I love watching testing golf. Whether it proves tricked up or not they are all playing the same course. 

I for one can't wait...Bring it on


----------



## JamesR (Jun 13, 2016)

Hosel Fade said:



			Was ready to dispute this but a quick look at stats puts him #22 strokes gained off the tee and #13 in plain driving accuracy, don't know why I had him down as being quite wide.

Don't think he is putting or chipping anywhere near well enough to be a factor though
		
Click to expand...

His putting the other week was pretty tasty when he won.


----------



## Slab (Jun 13, 2016)

Another who's really looking forward to it

Not a course I've watched on TV before (no idea what I was doing 9 years ago to miss it) but been on their course guide today and it just whets the appetite

We can see birdies & eagles any week of the tour but a great shot for par/bogey is still a great shot


----------



## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2016)

Kuuuuch.


----------



## Hosel Fade (Jun 13, 2016)

JamesR said:



			His putting the other week was pretty tasty when he won.
		
Click to expand...

? Henrik hasn't won in over a year


----------



## pokerjoke (Jun 13, 2016)

It will be a war of attrition and only the patient will survive.

My worry would be how the course will slow the play down and wether anyone will be left watching to see who the winner is.


----------



## Curls (Jun 13, 2016)

Grace.

And not just because he is the 2nd part of a trebble, the 1st part being Willett to win the Masters oo:


----------



## JamesR (Jun 13, 2016)

Hosel Fade said:



			? Henrik hasn't won in over a year
		
Click to expand...

Apologies. I missed your mention of Stenson, and thought you were still talking about Spieth.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 13, 2016)

Really looking forward to it, but it can be a fine line, I don't want to see players punished for good shots like happened in San Francisco a few years back.
Tricking up the green or the fairways too much so good shots are punished is wrong.


----------



## RustyTom (Jun 13, 2016)

I need to start being a bit more careful when booking holidays! I was in the Spain the weekend of the masters and I am in Woolacombe this weekend! Doh! Hopfully they have it in the club house but doubt it.


----------



## Fish (Jun 13, 2016)

If it's about hitting fairways then it won't be any of the usual top names mentioned above, unless they club down and play the course and don't try to spank it miles only to find thick cut rough!  

I'm not naming my favorites because you'll nick them for the Fantasy league :smirk:, but looking at the course set up it won't be anyone mentioned already!


----------



## Region3 (Jun 13, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Will it not be a test of golf then ? The players will need to put the ball in the right place , find fairways and play sensibly - instead of what we see week in week out with players carving it all over the place yet having a perfect lie and line to the green
		
Click to expand...




Big D 88 said:



			This is what I alluded to earlier on in the thread. To me it shows a side to a golfers course management that we often don't see as courses on the pga tend to favour those who hit furthest regardless of direction.

I love watching testing golf. Whether it proves tricked up or not they are all playing the same course. 

I for one can't wait...Bring it on
		
Click to expand...

My (not very well put maybe) point is that everybody from Zach to Dustin will be trying to play the same shots. Got to hit the fairway from the tee, and if you don't your  hacking out regardless of your skill and creativity.

I also don't agree that they usually smack it anywhere and still have a clear shot at the green. Sometimes yes, but most of the time they have to do something special to recover.

Last night was a great example. Mickelson and Stricker playing together, both miss the tee shot left on a par 5 leaving about 240 to a green with water right, and they're on a decent lie with a tree in front.

Captain sensible Stricker plays first, nudges it forward about 100yds keeping it under the tree leaving a wedge in.

Swashbuckling Mickelson tries to hit a high cut to the green with a hybrid.

This week they'll both be playing the same shot, ie hacking out.

Yes it's a test of executing golf shots, but I don't believe it's a great test of a golf game/brain.

You won't get Bubba hitting 40yd hooks with a wedge, or low slinging running draws up to the green from the rough, anyone putting from around the green, or playing bumped chips into banks. If they miss the green with their approach they can walk the 200yds to the green with their lob wedge in their hand.

We can't all agree and I know you'll disagree with me, but the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same things.


----------



## Big D 88 (Jun 13, 2016)

Region3 said:



			We can't all agree and I know you'll disagree with me, but the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same things.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly what i like about the forum - differing views put forward with though and insight

You make valid points and i understand your views

Personally, i think we'll still see plenty of differing shots. They'll be plenty of drama, and i would imagine that no lead will be safe which to me makes thrilling viewing! 

Anyway - i played this course on WGT and i dont know what they're worried about haha!


----------



## Region3 (Jun 13, 2016)

Big D 88 said:



			They'll be plenty of drama, and i would imagine that no lead will be safe which to me makes thrilling viewing!
		
Click to expand...

I agree with that, think it will be really good to watch for drama :thup:


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 16, 2016)

With everyone saying it'll be tough, I wonder what they'll do if we get 4 or 5 under Par from a few players today, I don't expect them to, but you always get at least 1 player having the round of his life and posting a cracking score.


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2016)

sounds like theres been some rain so greens wont be as fiery as expected, scores may not be that bad


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 16, 2016)

fundy said:



			sounds like theres been some rain so greens wont be as fiery as expected, scores may not be that bad
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully that'll give it the right mix of rewarding good golf and punishing sloppy golf.


----------



## pendodave (Jun 16, 2016)

re. nothing in particular, there seems to be some live streaming available from the USGA site this morning. Might even be the mcilroy/fowler group. They are showing them on the range atm.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 16, 2016)

5 guys under par. USGA won't be pleased. Be planning some new bunkers as we speak.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 16, 2016)

Superb from Fowler on the 1st. Smashes driver down the middle and knocks his wedge pin-high 4/5ft away for birdie. Come on Rickie! 

Willett has a very tough putt - around 35ft uphill, only just made the front with his approach


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2016)

play been suspended, big storm coming in it seems


----------



## Fish (Jun 16, 2016)

fundy said:



			play been suspended, big storm coming in it seems
		
Click to expand...

How does the course look though &#128540;


----------



## xcore (Jun 16, 2016)

What channels best for coverage tonight?!


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2016)

xcore said:



			What channels best for coverage tonight?!
		
Click to expand...

its on sky sports 4 all night


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2016)

Play suspended again and looking unlikely that they'll get much more play today with another cell of weather coming in behind this one. I see this going on until Monday


----------



## Tongo (Jun 16, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Play suspended again and looking unlikely that they'll get much more play today with another cell of weather coming in behind this one. *I see this going on until Monday*

Click to expand...

Well, the USGA do like an anticlimax.


----------



## xcore (Jun 16, 2016)

Off again!


----------



## Imurg (Jun 16, 2016)

Play suspended with half the field still to start round 1.
Anyone know what the weather forecast is for the rest of the week..?
Any Majors been reduced to 54 holes in the past..?


----------



## TheDiablo (Jun 16, 2016)

Weather forecast is decent. Shouldn't be any problems after today so will catch up fine.


----------



## Berger (Jun 17, 2016)

Play resumes today 7.30am local time, (12.30pm here). First round expected to be completed around lunch time and round 2 starts immediately after that. The third round will start at lunch time tomorrow and will be threeballs from 1st and 10th tees.


----------



## Slab (Jun 17, 2016)

Berger said:



			Play resumes today 7.30am local time, (12.30pm here). First round expected to be completed around lunch time and round 2 starts immediately after that. The third round will start at lunch time tomorrow and will be threeballs from 1st and 10th tees.
		
Click to expand...

They still reversing the field? that'll leave a few guys popping from the 18th green pretty much straight to the 1st for another 18


----------



## Berger (Jun 17, 2016)

It seems that way. Although you would imagine they would give them 45 minutes or so to get changed and something to eat for anyone in that situation. 

It looks like the leaders will tee off round 3 around 4/4.30pm which could mean a Sunday morning finish. But they shouldn't have any problems getting the final round completed on Sunday.


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 17, 2016)

To get finished on Sunday they need to find a way of getting Speith to play a bit quicker. He's not even played one round, and is already on the clock.


----------



## kerber0s1983 (Jun 17, 2016)

I looked at the tee times as well - bit odd to me

Mcilroy et al should be finished round 1 in just over an hour then tee off again at 9pm with a 12 hour break, whereas Jason day will finish round 1 and i reckon have 40 mins before teeing up again

Those with later tee times are going to struggle to get many holes in as the last group scheduled to tee off for round 2 is 9:30pm - wont be dark by then?


----------



## Foxholer (Jun 17, 2016)

Dan2501 said:



			5 guys under par. USGA won't be pleased. Be planning some new bunkers as we speak.
		
Click to expand...

USGA policy is to make their Open  'true test of Golf', so are, imo. quite determined, and entitled, to *challenge every aspect* of the golfer's game! The fact that there aren't too many naturally challenging courses (like links courses can be in UK) means they have to manufacture the conditions on some otherwise 'friendly' courses!

With a Course Rating of 76.9 (Par 70/71) and Slope index of 142, however, Oakmont is already right up there as one of the toughest in the country! So setting the Greens at a 'game testing' pace, for Pros who are used to around 12 (so 13+ and possibly up to 14!), definitely has the potential to make both normally 'great' putters and the USGA look a little silly - if the weather doesn't act as forecast!

Here's another view! http://www.golfwrx.com/382856/whats-so-difficult-about-oakmont-anyway/

Oh! Good to see  Walton Heath qualifiers Romain Wattel and Gregory Bourdy doing very well too! And Jeev Melka Singh taking advantage too!!


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nice -3 for Lee....


----------



## adam6177 (Jun 17, 2016)

Phil mickleson just doesn't shout fore does he.... I wonder if he's not happy unless he's putting someone's life in danger without warning them.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 17, 2016)

adam6177 said:



			Phil mickleson just doesn't shout fore does he.... I wonder if he's not happy unless he's putting someone's life in danger without warning them.
		
Click to expand...


You would think for one so wayward he might give the odd call....


----------



## FairwayDodger (Jun 17, 2016)

Rory out of it already on +7, bit of a nightmare for him.

Good from Westwood and Knox though.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 17, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Rory out of it already on +7, bit of a nightmare for him.

Good from Westwood and Knox though.
		
Click to expand...

Rorys a form player hu... Love to see Lee do something, he looks relaxed and happy, cant see it though. Shane Lowry up and at it!


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 17, 2016)

Is it sacrilege to say I preferred to watch the US Open at Chambers Bay?  I just find these kind of courses a pure test of execution and therefore for me a bit boring. There's very little imagination or thinking your way around the course, they have to hit a pencil thin fairway and there is often only 1 way of playing each hole. Then you get to the greens which to me approach crazy golf at times. I'll no doubt still watch it but much prefer other majors when they set the US Open courses up like this.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 17, 2016)

Region3 said:



			Surely course management is deciding what shot to hit and where to hit it, and there should be more than one way to play a hole.

Sounds like Oakmont is set up to only play the course one way. Might as well just send them to topgolf if it's a test of execution rather than a test of golf.
		
Click to expand...

Just looked through the old posts and saw Region 3 had said the same as I did.  So for the rest of this thread I will delegate my posting to Region 3 and just assume I agree with what he said.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 17, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Is it sacrilege to say I preferred to watch the US Open at Chambers Bay?  I just find these kind of courses a pure test of execution and therefore for me a bit boring. There's very little imagination or thinking your way around the course, they have to hit a pencil thin fairway and there is often only 1 way of playing each hole. Then you get to the greens which to me approach crazy golf at times. I'll no doubt still watch it but much prefer other majors when they set the US Open courses up like this.
		
Click to expand...


Totally get what your saying, its a different challenge though hu?!


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 17, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Totally get what your saying, its a different challenge though hu?!
		
Click to expand...

Yes I agree it is. But I thought the PGA had stopped doing this kind of thing as the last 2 had been a bit different from the pencil thin fairway/thick rough/super fast greens formula.  Sure make it a challenge, but I much preferred what they did at Pinehurst, tough but not just a case of every golfer trying to land the ball within the same 10 yard stretch on each fairway as it seems to be at Oakmont.


----------



## Alex1975 (Jun 17, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Yes I agree it is. But I thought the PGA had stopped doing this kind of thing as the last 2 had been a bit different from the pencil thin fairway/thick rough/super fast greens formula.  Sure make it a challenge, but I much preferred what they did at Pinehurst, tough but not just a case of every golfer trying to land the ball within the identical 10 yard stretch of fairway as it seems to be at Oakmont.
		
Click to expand...


Yep, I like the fast greens with tight sloped run offs deal where they have to be accurate or they are going to have a tricky, high tariff chip but not our of long grass. 

This place is a bit of a field too hu...


----------



## Foxholer (Jun 17, 2016)

Commentator... 'Dustin Johnson on the4th  tee...615 yds. Should be able to reach in 2...'

:rofl: 

And the 340 yard drive probably means he's probably correct!

Edit! Just an iron in! (though it's downhill & downwind)!


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 17, 2016)

Phil is just teeing off on a 684 yard par 5!  But the ball is not going too far, no siree


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jun 17, 2016)

it seems the world and his wife is getting it to one under at the moment.


----------



## TheDiablo (Jun 17, 2016)

The problem is they have to trick up the greens and surrounding area to such an extent because the ball goes too far these days. Reign it back a bit. The big hitters will still be bigger hitters, but it will test their game a bit more. If DJ, Bubba, Rory or Jason took a driver off a Par 4 and crushed it I dont think there would be many holes they ever play where they have more than a wedge.

Listened to a podcast earlier today, I was amazed that in the 1970s Augusta greens ran at 8.5 and US Open at 7.5! And they were still the truest test of golf. Some of the downhillers at Oakmont are running at 18!!


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 17, 2016)

TheDiablo said:



			The problem is they have to trick up the greens and surrounding area to such an extent because the ball goes too far these days. Reign it back a bit. The big hitters will still be bigger hitters, but it will test their game a bit more. If DJ, Bubba, Rory or Jason took a driver off a Par 4 and crushed it I dont think there would be many holes they ever play where they have more than a wedge.

Listened to a podcast earlier today, I was amazed that in the 1970s Augusta greens ran at 8.5 and US Open at 7.5! And they were still the truest test of golf. Some of the downhillers at Oakmont are running at 18!!
		
Click to expand...

Isn't 18 like putting on concrete?


----------



## davemc1 (Jun 17, 2016)

DJ playing like he has today looks imperious. So effortless, seems like he hasnt a care in the world. Hope to saying the same thing come sunday/monday. He has the game to dominate in the majors for years.

It must be the first time in 2 years I havnt a penny on him


----------



## BrianM (Jun 17, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			DJ playing like he has today looks imperious. So effortless, seems like he hasnt a care in the world. Hope to saying the same thing come sunday/monday. He has the game to dominate in the majors for years.

It must be the first time in 2 years I havnt a penny on him 

Click to expand...

Ive got a Â£10 on DJ at 14'sðŸ˜¬
The course looks like it's toughening right up with the dry weather, there could be a few in contention on Sunday, don't think Rory will be one of them ðŸ˜³


----------



## Tiger man (Jun 17, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			DJ playing like he has today looks imperious. So effortless, seems like he hasnt a care in the world. Hope to saying the same thing come sunday/monday. He has the game to dominate in the majors for years.

It must be the first time in 2 years I havnt a penny on him 

Click to expand...

Those 2 years must have taught you well, just wait for it we know what will happen!


----------



## Hosel Fade (Jun 17, 2016)

We're nowhere near DJ time yet


----------



## freddielong (Jun 17, 2016)

Currently trying to work out what is more annoying Dustin Johnson s stupid beard or Colin Montgomery.


----------



## Dan2501 (Jun 17, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			DJ playing like he has today looks imperious. So effortless, seems like he hasnt a care in the world. Hope to saying the same thing come sunday/monday. He has the game to dominate in the majors for years.

It must be the first time in 2 years I havnt a penny on him 

Click to expand...

It's alright, it's still Friday.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jun 18, 2016)

Ive gone with Andy Sullivan, Shane Lowry and Landry on the betting front.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 18, 2016)

Dustin Johnson is the Arsenal equivalent of the golfing world, Guaranteed to mess up 3/4 of the way through&#128513;&#128513;&#128514;


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 18, 2016)

US Open is my least favourite Major. I can never get very excited about it as it just always seems like a long slog on some kind of tricked up track.

Give me the TCP at Sawgrass all day long.


----------



## Tongo (Jun 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Dustin Johnson is the Arsenal equivalent of the golfing world, Guaranteed to mess up 3/4 of the way through&#62977;&#62977;&#62978;
		
Click to expand...

:rofl:


----------



## xcore (Jun 18, 2016)

Westwood now leading...


----------



## larmen (Jun 18, 2016)

xcore said:



			Westwood now leading...
		
Click to expand...

I have a cheeky Â£2 on him at 51/1. I am not following golf of that long, but he usually is close but misses at the end. It has to work out at some point.


They have some nice coverage on the US open web page.


----------



## IainP (Jun 18, 2016)

Afraid Lee has been dropping shots.


Good ol' Butch I think has broken the 200 "perfect"s already and still on 2nd round


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 18, 2016)

Rory is tearing up the course today, just a shame he has his usual blow up in one round or he'd be near the top of the leader board.  Still may be if he repeats todays game over the next 2 rounds.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 18, 2016)

IainP said:



*Afraid Lee has been dropping shots.*


Good ol' Butch I think has broken the 200 "perfect"s already and still on 2nd round
		
Click to expand...

Yup, unfortunately he's going backwards at the moment.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2016)

It's great viewing - some superb play to watch and some great battling.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's great viewing - some superb play to watch and some great battling.
		
Click to expand...

I agree.  But still can't shake the impression that a giant windmill would not look out of place on some greens the way the slopes are.


----------



## ger147 (Jun 18, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			I agree.  But still can't shake the impression that a giant windmill would not look out of place on some greens the way the slopes are.
		
Click to expand...

Like the one Rory's just been putting on...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2016)

Spieths group finally put on the clock - Spieth looks like he is struggling to hit the ball - lots of fidgets


----------



## ger147 (Jun 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spieths group finally put on the clock - Spieth looks like he is struggling to hit the ball - lots of fidgets
		
Click to expand...

And Spieth responds by hitting his teeshot, then nipping off to the loo...


----------



## Fish (Jun 18, 2016)

I don't think you can predict anyone to win this still, you can drop so many shots so quickly, it could be someone sitting 4 or even 5 shots off the pace and then has a blinder on the last day leapfrogging the pack!

I'm not able to watch it here and only following the ever changing leaderboards, but has anyone had anything like a consistent couple of rounds &#129300;


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2016)

ger147 said:



			And Spieth responds by hitting his teeshot, then nipping off to the loo...
		
Click to expand...

It's poor to see 

Bourdy is throwing it away - Watson has imploded 

Lowry looks solid though


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jun 18, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spieths group finally put on the clock - Spieth looks like he is struggling to hit the ball - lots of fidgets
		
Click to expand...

Spieth seemed to take an age to hit his first shot, it doesn't seem like that fine he got on the ET has made much difference to his attitude, and it won't until they start docking shots


----------



## OldMate (Jun 18, 2016)

The projected cut was sitting on +6 earlier but has been +5 for a couple of hours now - just needs two more of the +5s to make bogey for it to go back to +6, which I'm hoping will happen as there are a few guys at +6 who I'd like to see make it (Cabrera, Cameron Smith, Danny Lee). Running out of time though as all of the +5s are getting deep into their back nines.


----------



## USER1999 (Jun 18, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Dustin Johnson is the Arsenal equivalent of the golfing world, Guaranteed to mess up 3/4 of the way through&#128513;&#128513;&#128514;
		
Click to expand...

I see him more as Tottenham. Gets the end in sight, and then his bottle goes.


----------



## OldMate (Jun 18, 2016)

Anyone know what the plan is - are they going back out today to start the third round once the cut is done or is it now accepted as a Monday finish?


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jun 18, 2016)

back out asap.

    westy brought it back after a really bad mid round.


----------



## OldMate (Jun 18, 2016)

Norrin Radd said:



			back out asap.

    westy brought it back after a really bad mid round.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers - in that case will head home to watch!


----------



## Fish (Jun 18, 2016)

OldMate said:



			The projected cut was sitting on +6 earlier but has been +5 for a couple of hours now - just needs two more of the +5s to make bogey for it to go back to +6, which I'm hoping will happen as there are a few guys at +6 who I'd like to see make it (Cabrera, Cameron Smith, Danny Lee). Running out of time though as all of the +5s are getting deep into their back nines.
		
Click to expand...

Early bath for Rory!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2016)

Would love to see Sergio win this. 
Or Sullivan,obviously.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2016)

I sear Monty gets worse as each comp goes back - I thought his punditry and commentary was bad before but he is reaching all new levels of annoyance at this event


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 18, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Rory is tearing up the course today, just a shame he has his usual blow up in one round or he'd be near the top of the leader board.  Still may be if he repeats todays game over the next 2 rounds.
		
Click to expand...

Mmmmm, I called that one well..


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 18, 2016)

Spencer Levin loves a strop 
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/2016-us-open-spencer-levin-has-ultimate-meltdown-after-bad-shot
&#128514;


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 18, 2016)

Dufner's trousers, a whole new level of nasty&#128515;


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 18, 2016)

Looking forward to this moving round. Hopefully Westwood, Garcia and a few other Brits and Europeans can play themselves right into it and be close to the lead for tomorrow. If Johnson carries on the first two round form, he'll be out of sight though but I fancy he'll have a struggle this round


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jun 18, 2016)

Day and Spieth making a move early doors.

and westy has a great chance of birdie on the first after a superb iron shot in .


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 18, 2016)

Go big westie


----------



## sawtooth (Jun 18, 2016)

garyinderry said:



			Go big westie
		
Click to expand...

Lovely shot and a 4 shot swing in a blink of an eye.

Same old D Johnson on the green I'm afraid, misses too many makeable putts IMO.


----------



## xcore (Jun 18, 2016)

Lovely eagle from westwood


----------



## pauljames87 (Jun 18, 2016)

Why is dustin trying to engage his brain and play sensible? it never works for him! 

sod the irons off the tee.. take driver..


----------



## Tongo (Jun 19, 2016)

Great stuff from Shane Lowry. The USGA must be wringing their hands at 7 under currently leading the tournament. A couple of hours for them to trick up the course!


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 19, 2016)

from the interview i saw with the US Ga guys the other day they won't be that disappointed after all +7 was the cut.


----------



## IainP (Jun 19, 2016)

Landry sporting some great "panda eyes" in the interview


----------



## ger147 (Jun 19, 2016)

DJ laying up on the 1st...


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jun 19, 2016)

thats one hell of a run that Koepka is putting together.


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 19, 2016)

Just can't make up my mind whether I like the ever-increasing usage of ball -tracking software on TV coverage of this event.

It's interesting to see the ball flight but it's now in danger of becoming overused. What's happened to the cameras picking up the actual real time ball flight?


----------



## Qwerty (Jun 19, 2016)

COME ON SHANE!!!

that's all


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 19, 2016)

C'mon big man Shane!


----------



## Jimaroid (Jun 19, 2016)

I've decided I don't like Oakmont. Aesthetically it's trashy, angular, unnatural and tastelessy tricked up. Those "pew" bunkers are the ugliest feature ever to be placed on a golf course. 

Classic example of money not being able to buy taste.


----------



## Hickory_Hacker (Jun 19, 2016)

Yes, it would be good to see a fat guy winning but as long as he's not slow, fat and slow is a bad combination to be behind!


----------



## TheJezster (Jun 19, 2016)

Jimaroid said:



			I've decided I don't like Oakmont. Aesthetically it's trashy, angular, unnatural and tastelessy tricked up. Those "pew" bunkers are the ugliest feature ever to be placed on a golf course. 

Classic example of money not being able to buy taste.
		
Click to expand...

Funny how tastes change from one person to the next. I think the church pews are great looking, a really nice feature of the course.


----------



## Crow (Jun 19, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:



			Just can't make up my mind whether I like the ever-increasing usage of ball -tracking software on TV coverage of this event.

It's interesting to see the ball flight but it's now in danger of becoming overused. What's happened to the cameras picking up the actual real time ball flight?
		
Click to expand...

I'm watching it on the US Open website feed and what really gets on my nerves is the "hole-mike" and the noise of the ball rattling in the bottom of the cup, it just sounds so false, in fact I do wonder if it's just a recording that they play as the ball drops into the hole?


----------



## IainP (Jun 19, 2016)

Unfortunately Lee seems to have started in round 4 at major mode, hope he can turn it around, long way to go.


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 19, 2016)

Hmmm. Which hole number has the windmill door, the opening and closing legs and President Lincoln's revolving top hat?

For my taste it's all just a bit too tricked up to ensure that level par, or as close to that, is the winning number.

Roll on the proper Open next month.


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 19, 2016)

come on Brooks


----------



## guest100718 (Jun 19, 2016)

Pretty tiresome stuff. Give me -20 any day


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 19, 2016)

Butch Harmon "If I was a member here I'd quit the game."

Would find it very hard to disagree. This place is plain downright stupid.


----------



## Norrin Radd (Jun 19, 2016)

i missed top gear to watch this bloody farce.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 19, 2016)

Lee Westwood &#128547;

COME ON SERGIO!


----------



## Jimaroid (Jun 19, 2016)

This is rubbish, watching who's going to lose it, not who's going to win it. The commentators sound bored too.


----------



## shewy (Jun 19, 2016)

Looks like they just need to get the timing right, through the windmill and into the clowns mouth and bingo!!&#128565;
Stupid setup


----------



## Crow (Jun 19, 2016)

I see that Lee Westwood is 6 over after 6, what's the cause?
Is it bad tee shots, approach shots, short game or what?


----------



## paddyc (Jun 19, 2016)

Its the US Open, its usually the toughest test in golf i think its great stuff.

I see lee's having his usual quality final round.


----------



## Hickory_Hacker (Jun 19, 2016)

Lee Westwood ... He couldn't win a monthly club medal and he his acting career isn't that great either :rofl:


----------



## IainP (Jun 19, 2016)

Crow said:



			I see that Lee Westwood is 6 over after 6, what's the cause?
Is it bad tee shots, approach shots, short game or what?
		
Click to expand...

Mainly poor off the tee.
Perhaps watching Dustin launch them has thrown his rhythm off or something


----------



## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Crow said:



			I see that Lee Westwood is 6 over after 6, what's the cause?
Is it bad tee shots, approach shots, short game or what?
		
Click to expand...

All of the above. 

I blame the cranked up pressure for not having won a major, if he had won one 20 yrs ago he might have had 5-6 by now but now they're harder than ever for him.

Its a shame really because like Monty they deserved at least one a piece.


----------



## Region3 (Jun 19, 2016)

I'm enjoying this. Shame about Westwood, but DJ's driving is unreal


----------



## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Region3 said:



			I'm enjoying this. Shame about Westwood, but DJ's driving is unreal 

Click to expand...

Me too and due to the severity of the course it can change very quickly.


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 19, 2016)

Blimey - how lucky was DJ there?


----------



## Region3 (Jun 19, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:



			Blimey - how lucky was DJ there?
		
Click to expand...

Very, but did he just take 2 club lengths for free relief?


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 19, 2016)

Region3 said:



			Very, but did he just take 2 club lengths for free relief?
		
Click to expand...

I did wonder about that but it was probably taking full relief from the nearest point of relief no nearer the hole. There was a referee right beside him so I imagine it was all pukka and above board.


----------



## Spuddy (Jun 19, 2016)

Region3 said:



			Very, but did he just take 2 club lengths for free relief?
		
Click to expand...

The commentator said he got the point where the flag is no longer obscured, then another club length and that is the NPR from which he can drop within another club length.


----------



## sawtooth (Jun 19, 2016)

Day right back in this.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2016)

officials want shooting here

DJ and the official made a decision and now they want to review tv footage after he finishes. so no one knows exactly where they stand until after the round finishes


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 19, 2016)

What on earth is going on?

This business with DJ is just bizarre. If they didn't have the greens running at such stupid speeds then there would never be an issue.

For a Major this is just a bit of a pantomime what with one thing and another.


----------



## duncan mackie (Jun 19, 2016)

fundy said:



			officials want shooting here

DJ and the official made a decision and now they want to review tv footage after he finishes. so no one knows exactly where they stand until after the round finishes
		
Click to expand...

The issue probably isn't about whether he addressed the ball but whether he actually caused it to move with his prior actions or touched the ball....

Edit - the problem they have is that following the TW incident where they ruled without discussing it with him, and the need to inform the player at the earliest opportunity that there is something to discuss, they have no choice.

He should be protected from the additional penalty (for not replacing) by the on green discussion but if there is evidence that he did cause the ball to move he would be subject to a penalty of 1 shot.


----------



## Region3 (Jun 19, 2016)

I don't think they can think he grounded the club if they've seen what we have.

I'm wondering if maybe the ball touched the club? What's the rule there?


----------



## xcore (Jun 19, 2016)

How bizarre!


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2016)

duncan mackie said:



			The issue probably isn't about whether he addressed the ball but whether he actually caused it to move with his prior actions or touched the ball....
		
Click to expand...

the issue is some little rules official thinking this is his moment of glory - if they genuinely want to penalise him (based on evidence that says they shouldnt) then have the balls to penalise him, but to wait till after the round to review just so they can be the centre of attention before doing nothing is just ridiculous


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Jun 19, 2016)

I'm afraid that DJ will blow it now, can't they make a decision before the end of the round?


----------



## Spuddy (Jun 19, 2016)

Region3 said:



			I don't think they can think he grounded the club if they've seen what we have.

I'm wondering if maybe the ball touched the club? What's the rule there?
		
Click to expand...

if he caused it to move and didn't replace it then it's a 2 stroke penalty


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 19, 2016)

Region3 said:



			I don't think they can think he grounded the club if they've seen what we have.

I'm wondering if maybe the ball touched the club? What's the rule there?
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure if the putter had touched the ball he'd have known and made the ref aware of it at the time.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm sure if the putter had touched the ball he'd have known and made the ref aware of it at the time.
		
Click to expand...

yep basically they havent taken his word for it, have screwed with his head mid round, wont make a decision. we want to watch golf not pathetic rules discussions


----------



## paddyc (Jun 19, 2016)

Now Dj's head is all over the place, errant shots since being iformed they want to look at footage. Can t see what the issue is.did not addrees ball> unless he touched it but surely he would have called a penalty on himself. Its hotting up


----------



## mefromhere (Jun 19, 2016)

They have to prove that Dustin caused the ball to move after the rule change in January wouldn't they?

I think the issue might be that they're concerned they got the Lowry decision wrong in round 2 and need to even it up!


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 19, 2016)

fundy said:



			yep basically they havent taken his word for it, have screwed with his head mid round, wont make a decision. we want to watch golf not pathetic rules discussions
		
Click to expand...

Once the ref has given the decision, it must stand.


----------



## fundy (Jun 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Once the ref has given the decision, it must stand.
		
Click to expand...

youd think so wouldnt you


----------



## palindromicbob (Jun 19, 2016)

Actually turning into a farce. DJs head is gone and even if he is facing a penalty if things keep spiralling it won't matter.


----------



## duncan mackie (Jun 19, 2016)

Stuart_C said:



			Once the ref has given the decision, it must stand.
		
Click to expand...

Only if the facts as presented and ruled on stand up.


----------



## OldMate (Jun 19, 2016)

palindromicbob said:



			Actually turning into a farce. DJs head is gone and even if he is facing a penalty if things keep spiralling it won't matter.
		
Click to expand...

Yep.  This is very quickly looking like ruining the whole championship and unfair on everyone.


----------



## mcbroon (Jun 19, 2016)

This is pretty disgusting, actually. Why let it go on? Surely they can review the footage and make a decision asap? 

If DJ doesn't win this and there's no penalty, the USGA are going to take pelters, and rightly so.


----------



## IainP (Jun 19, 2016)

mefromhere said:



			They have to prove that Dustin caused the ball to move after the rule change in January wouldn't they?

I think the issue might be that they're concerned they got the Lowry decision wrong in round 2 and need to even it up!
		
Click to expand...

I missed this, what happened in R2?


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Jun 19, 2016)

Plenty of support for DJ from Rory and co.


----------



## mefromhere (Jun 19, 2016)

Lowry set up to putt then called a penalty on himself because ball moved.

I think he called this penalty incorrectly on himself because he didn't cause it to move. It just moved.


----------



## OldMate (Jun 19, 2016)

mcbroon said:



			This is pretty disgusting, actually. Why let it go on? Surely they can review the footage and make a decision asap? 

If DJ doesn't win this and there's no penalty, the USGA are going to take pelters, and rightly so.
		
Click to expand...

And completely unfair on whoever else wins in that case because the whole thing is tainted


----------



## snell (Jun 19, 2016)

Hope DJ wins this now and sticks it to the USGA


----------



## JohnnyDee (Jun 19, 2016)

Tensions mount at Oakmont as the nonsense continues.


----------



## kevster84 (Jun 19, 2016)

It's an utter shambles. DJ has been massively affected by this. Tell him now and he, and other members of the field, will know where they are.


----------



## paddyc (Jun 19, 2016)

Why can the USGA just get DJ in to view some footage discuss takes 2 mins then he knows where he stands


----------



## bluewolf (Jun 20, 2016)

Whatever happens (and the way the USGA is handling it seems bizarre), this is compelling viewing.


----------



## mcbroon (Jun 20, 2016)

OldMate said:



			And completely unfair on whoever else wins in that case because the whole thing is tainted
		
Click to expand...

Very true. This will be remembered for this nonsense, rather than for whatever happens. Unless DJ wins.


----------



## snell (Jun 20, 2016)

mcbroon said:



			Very true. This will be remembered for this nonsense, rather than for whatever happens. Unless DJ wins.
		
Click to expand...

Will we have a US Open without some Dustin related drama?!


----------



## IainP (Jun 20, 2016)

Nonsense as it seems, I thought they said they wanted DJ to review video after the round. So not clear what the commentary team are expecting before then.


----------



## mcbroon (Jun 20, 2016)

That is a door being slammed shut.

Oh, I hope he dedicates this victory to the USGA :clap:


----------



## upsidedown (Jun 20, 2016)

Bottle and half from DJ &#128522;


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2016)

brilliant from DJ, just awesome

now time to go and tell some officials what he really thinks


----------



## davemc1 (Jun 20, 2016)

Congrats to DJ, cant help but think its the start of things to come.

Ill even do him the favour of never betting on him again


----------



## kid2 (Jun 20, 2016)

Can someone clarify something. When Johnson had the drop out of the rough from the camera tower being on the way. 
Why did he take 2 club lengths?
I was of the impression that a penalty drop was 2 club lengths and that a free drop for relief was 1.


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2016)

and the officials embarass themselves even further by penalising him a shot, utter joke the way they handled the whole situation


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 20, 2016)

davemc1 said:



			Congrats to DJ, cant help but think its the start of things to come.

Ill even do him the favour of never betting on him again
		
Click to expand...

Good lad, I'll be able to recoup previous losses now


----------



## Stuart_C (Jun 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			and the officials embarass themselves even further by penalising him a shot, utter joke the way they handled the whole situation
		
Click to expand...

I hope he's gone in with a 5 on his card.


----------



## palindromicbob (Jun 20, 2016)

kid2 said:



			Can someone clarify something. When Johnson had the drop out of the rough from the camera tower being on the way. 
Why did he take 2 club lengths?
I was of the impression that a penalty drop was 2 club lengths and that a free drop for relief was 1.
		
Click to expand...

Said the exact same thing myself.


----------



## the_coach (Jun 20, 2016)

congrats to DJ and commiserations to Shane Lowry

the drop for line of sight from the temporary immovable obstruction was okay as far as I could see within the temporary local rule that would have been in use as it is in all tournaments that have that bunch of stuff, TV towers etc.

think congrats to DJ for being very magnanimous towards the USGA who in my view got that situation of the 5th all wrong
he had not grounded the putter in preparation for the putting stroke to the hole and again in my view did not cause the ball to move
would have been a very messy end if DJ hadn't played so good to have the strokes that he did in hand coming off the 18th


----------



## Simbo (Jun 20, 2016)

kid2 said:



			Can someone clarify something. When Johnson had the drop out of the rough from the camera tower being on the way. 
Why did he take 2 club lengths?
I was of the impression that a penalty drop was 2 club lengths and that a free drop for relief was 1.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't it because you actually have to get relief from the obstacle your claiming relief from, In this instance the camera tower. One club length may have still left the camera tower obscuring the flag therefor he's entitled to move to the nearest point of relief THEN take his club length. Which could make it look like he's just taken a 2 club length drop??


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 20, 2016)

fundy said:



			and the officials embarass themselves even further by penalising him a shot, utter joke the way they handled the whole situation
		
Click to expand...

Badly handled all the way through. Another farce that makes golf seem a mockery to the outside world. Well done to DJ for keeping it going with that hanging over him all round. Shame Lowry couldn't finish off but great to see him playing so well


----------



## Fish (Jun 20, 2016)

Simbo said:



			Isn't it because you actually have to get relief from the obstacle your claiming relief from, In this instance the camera tower. One club length may have still left the camera tower obscuring the flag therefor he's entitled to move to the nearest point of relief THEN take his club length. Which could make it look like he's just taken a 2 club length drop??
		
Click to expand...

This is how I see it, plus there are always temporary rules in place that we won't be privy to in these tournaments due to the amount of temporary obstructions.


----------



## bladeplayer (Jun 20, 2016)

Simbo said:



			Isn't it because you actually have to get relief from the obstacle your claiming relief from, In this instance the camera tower. One club length may have still left the camera tower obscuring the flag therefor he's entitled to move to the nearest point of relief THEN take his club length. Which could make it look like he's just taken a 2 club length drop??
		
Click to expand...

He then played straight over the tower tho. so he either didn't take full relief or it wasnt I his line in first place .. that confused me


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 20, 2016)

bladeplayer said:



			He then played straight over the tower tho. so he either didn't take full relief or it wasnt I his line in first place .. that confused me
		
Click to expand...

It was line of sight to the flag, one club length didn't give him clear line of sight, so once he had clear line of sight, which coincidentally 1st club length didn't give him, but that was npr,  he then got to mark one club length which did,  how he then plays the shot is up to him, he drew it in over the tower, he could of faded it around it, either way the shot he plays is irrelevant to the relief. Or that's how Sky explained it&#128515;


----------



## duncan mackie (Jun 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			This is how I see it, plus there are always temporary rules in place that we won't be privy to in these tournaments due to the amount of temporary obstructions.
		
Click to expand...

The TIO relief local rule is in the appendix for all to see alongside the winter rules ones...

The obvious confusion is that interference includes 1cl so after you establish exact visual clearance you add 1cl to establish full relief. From there you must drop within 1cl.


----------



## Swingalot (Jun 20, 2016)

Well played Dustin Johnson. Let's not overshadow a great victory, from a player many have taken enjoyment out of labelling a choker etc.

Well deserved victory, I'm sure more will follow.


----------



## paddyc (Jun 20, 2016)

DJ just saved the usga from one of the biggest balls up in golf history. Really pleased he finally won a major.Been through the mill a few times with last year,whistling straits,pebble 2010.
Now he 's got the monkey off his back he's going to go on and win more surely, and challenge Jordan,jason and Rory for the number one spot with the distance he hits the ball.
Great scenes at the end with his young kid and Paula in a skimpy white number.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jun 20, 2016)

What a good final round apart from the DJ fiasco.

As soon as Lowry came back to the pack it could have been one of many that could have won.

Absolute fair play to DJ for holding it together and I'm sure its down to his calmness and laid back attitude that got him over the line.

Gutted for me and Lowry as it cost me a good payout and for Westwood who made so many errors it was untrue.

Great to see Sergio in the mix too.

I said a few weeks back DJ was going to win a major and he will win a few more now he has an amazing game shame I didn't back my instincts.


----------



## Slab (Jun 20, 2016)

Well I drew DJ as one of my players in the sweep so I'm a happy bunny this morning :whoo:


----------



## Simbo (Jun 20, 2016)

How he plays the shot is irrelevant to the relief he's entitled to. IMO The TV tower was never the issue as has been seen when he played the shot over the top of it, the heavy rough was the issue. this was a classic example of knowing how to use the rules to your advantage. He wanted a drop out of the nasty thick rough and used the free drop rule for the TV tower to get a drop into the not so nasty first cut.


----------



## Jimaroid (Jun 20, 2016)

Great to see DJ win at last, I've been backing him for a long time so it's a shame I only got him at 15/1 for this. I went to bed when he was on the 6th hole last night but I had a feeling something dramatic would happen as it usually does when I give up watching. Hope that's the monkey off his back now.


----------



## Tongo (Jun 20, 2016)

Great stuff from DJ. Saved the USGA some major embarrassment. 

As for the USGA; are they that desperate to keep things as close to par that everyone had to be kept in the dark? Pathetic, anachronistic and a sad indictment for golf.


----------



## Region3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Simbo said:



			How he plays the shot is irrelevant to the relief he's entitled to. IMO The TV tower was never the issue as has been seen when he played the shot over the top of it, the heavy rough was the issue. *this was a classic example of knowing how to use the rules to your advantage*. He wanted a drop out of the nasty thick rough and used the free drop rule for the TV tower to get a drop into the not so nasty first cut.
		
Click to expand...

Absolutely 100%.

Whenever this topic comes up the reply "they hurt you sometimes so take advantage when you can" always comes up. I'm sure some people see it as tantamount to cheating, but never before has that been so apt as last night.

Penalised a stroke for being deemed to have caused a ball to move 1 dimple on the severest sloped and fastest greens they'll play on all year, so I'm happy he got lucky with a TV tower being _in the way_ when he misses a mile left.


----------



## garyinderry (Jun 20, 2016)

Most impressive they way the players got the ball out of deep rough.   a few bunker shots from up close to lip was also mighty impressive. 

Sergios fairway bunker shot last night off the downslope was as pure a strike as you will ever see.  Unreal.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2016)

Well I throughly enjoyed the whole comps 

Some very impressive play - course looked superb and a brilliant test for the players. There were birdie opportunities to be taken and times when a bogey was a good score , it was certainly a fair test of golf and the talk of "windmills etc" is extremely unfair and IMO a symptom of people being saturated by watching US Target golf. 

I have never been a massive fan of DJ - don't like the spitting etc but he played wonderfully well - pure ball striking and his putting was supreme. Think all his previous experience in majors played a key role in him winning - fully deserved 

Lowry will use the same expirence - think he needed someone like Westwood or a fellow European to chat to in the last round to help him - it looked like he just couldn't bounce of Landry who was having a mare. Lowry will win a major very soon - maybe even the next one 

Westwood - over the whole four days his short was superb but for once his driving and long irons let him down but it's great to see him hitting form and will be at the Ryder Cup 

"The Ruling"

I think it did affect DJ for a little bit but maybe I think it affected Lowry more - he got himself back into it but then a few stupid putts and he was gone again. 

As for the ruling itself - I'm not sure actually what was that bad about the whole thing - they made a ruling on the ground - no problems but then a referee looked at it again and informed the player they would be looking at it again to see if DJ did cause the ball to move - it's known that the findings will take place after the round because of what happened with Woods in the Masters a few years back. The official deemed he caused it to move and then applied the correct penalty - can't see an issue with it personally. 

Overall it was one of the better majors for a while now and has wetted the appetite for The Open - just need to find a way for Sky to lose Monty , Roe and Co from the panel !!


----------



## Simbo (Jun 20, 2016)

Did they say how he caused the ball to move??
He didn't address it, didn't touch it and didn't ground his putter.  Very unfair penalty IMO but to make him wait until the round was over is an absolute farce-complete joke.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jun 20, 2016)

And to top it off DJ gets to go home to Paulina Gretzky.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 20, 2016)

Wow, she has not been near the ugly stick.

I have only just seen the penalty incident. No penalty for me even with my limited knowledge. Was someone trying to make a name for themselves last night?


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 20, 2016)




----------



## FairwayDodger (Jun 20, 2016)

Simbo said:



			Did they say how he caused the ball to move??
He didn't address it, didn't touch it and didn't ground his putter.  Very unfair penalty IMO but to make him wait until the round was over is an absolute farce-complete joke.
		
Click to expand...

He grounded his putter next to the ball for his practice swing. That must have been what caused the ball to move. Of course it wouldn't have if the greens hadn't been prepared at a stupidly fast speed.


----------



## Simbo (Jun 20, 2016)

Is that their official reason? 
But the ball never moved when he ground his putter while taking his practice strokes??
It moved when he moved his putter behind the ball without grounding it.
You haven't officially addressed the ball until your club has been grounded either in front of or behind the ball. Not to the side of it.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Jun 20, 2016)

Simbo said:



			Is that their official reason? 
But the ball never moved when he ground his putter while taking his practice strokes??
It moved when he moved his putter behind the ball without grounding it.
You haven't officially addressed the ball until your club has been grounded either in front of or behind the ball. Not to the side of it.
		
Click to expand...

Whether you have addressed the ball or not is irrelevant, it's just if you cause it to move.


----------



## Fish (Jun 20, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Whether you have addressed the ball or not is irrelevant NOW, it's just if you cause it to move.
		
Click to expand...

Added a word as it seems too many have missed this very important rule change that was implemented in January.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jun 20, 2016)

Complete & utter balls up by the USGA; the only person who comes out of it with any credit in my opinion was the match referee.  DJ knows he hasn't grounded the club & addressed the ball, his FC/marker agrees, the referee ascertains these facts through the minimum number of questions and says get on with it.  Then the USGA turn it into Fred Karno's circus.  

If DJ didn't cause the ball to move, no penalty.  If he did, then as I understand it, 1 shot penalty & replace the ball.  DJ didn't replace the ball, so has he not played from the wrong place?  The USGA would appear to have deemed that he has moved the ball by dint of the penalty and consequently he must then have played from the wrong place, but the USGA haven't done anything about that aspect; DJ couldn't because he believed he'd done the right thing.  However if he incurred the one shot penalty & didn't replace the ball then surely there's a DQ lurking in there?  It would be utterly wrong to DQ him, and there is no way I am suggesting that DJ did anything incorrectly, intentionally or otherwise, but once the first penalty has been applied then "strict rules of golf Goldfinger", surely? 

Good to see the youngsters calling it as they (and 99.99999% of the sane world) saw it via social media.


----------



## Green Bay Hacker (Jun 20, 2016)

That is a very dangerous precedent they have set. They are categorically saying that he caused the ball to move and that will have consequences for every one of us at some time in our golfing future. The incident will continue to be replayed for some time to come so very few golfers who play competitively will be unaware of the ruling. Not many, if any of us, would have said that he caused the ball to move before yesterday, including the top pros, but with that ruling by the USGA if you or your putter are any where near the ball when it moves, before the stroke is made, it appears a penalty should be called. (strong wind conditions excepted)


----------



## MashieNiblick (Jun 20, 2016)

Blue in Munich said:



			If DJ didn't cause the ball to move, no penalty.  If he did, then as I understand it, 1 shot penalty & replace the ball.  DJ didn't replace the ball, so has he not played from the wrong place?  The USGA would appear to have deemed that he has moved the ball by dint of the penalty and consequently he must then have played from the wrong place, but the USGA haven't done anything about that aspect; DJ couldn't because he believed he'd done the right thing.  However if he incurred the one shot penalty & didn't replace the ball then surely there's a DQ lurking in there?  It would be utterly wrong to DQ him, and there is no way I am suggesting that DJ did anything incorrectly, intentionally or otherwise, but once the first penalty has been applied then "strict rules of golf Goldfinger", surely?
		
Click to expand...

DJ got a ruling from the referee and proceeded in accordance with that. That ruling was later reviewed on the basis of the video evidence and a penalty was imposed for moving the ball.  However, DJ can't be further penalised for not replacing it as this was the result of the initial ruling by the referee and he simply proceeded as instructed.  

Covered by Decision 34-3/7 - Referee Determines Player Did Not Cause Ball to Move; Committee Subsequently Changes Ruling.

Q.A player's ball in play moves and he is unsure whether he caused it to move in breach of Rule 18-2. The player asks for a ruling from a referee. Based on the evidence, the referee determines that the player did not cause the ball to move and instructs the player to play the ball as it lies without penalty. After the player plays, the Committee assesses the same evidence or additional evidence that was not available at the time and determines that the player had caused the ball to move. What is the ruling?

A.Rule 34-3 does not prevent a Committee from changing a ruling (see Decision 34-3/1). As the player caused the ball to move, he was required to replace the ball with a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2. When he failed to do so, he played from a wrong place. However, as he did so at the instruction of a referee, he does not incur the general penalty under Rule 18 for playing from a wrong place. Nevertheless, he does incur the penalty stroke under Rule 18-2 as he caused the ball to move before the ruling from the referee. The player must continue with the ball played from the wrong place. (Revised)​


----------



## the_coach (Jun 20, 2016)

strictly to the letter of the law the usga were correct in how they  applied them to what they believed happened on the 5th - but i don't  think personally they were 'correct' to surmise/interpret what they did

my take I think their belief that DJ caused the ball was misguided 

the  study of what takes place in slow-mo DJ grounds the putter with the  ball off the 'toe' of the putter head, practice stroke/s occur sole of  putter head not in contact with grass or ground during this motion

DJ  starts his moves to start his 'address to the ball' by sliding putter  head behind the ball while it's not in contact with grass or ground
ball makes small part rotation directly backwards towards the putter head - so ball motion is 'backwards'

couple of observations of the 'incident'

- putter head when eventually hovered behind the ball but off the ground could not have caused the ball to roll
-  when the ball 'moved' some time had lapsed since the practice stroke/s  & little more time since the putter head was grounded with the ball  off the 'toe end' of the blade and the ball 'motion' was not in a  direction of movement to where the toe of the putter head had been in  contact with the grass/ground

my own take usga acted correctly to what 'they' (rules committee in situ) 'believed' might have happened
but  their belief was misguided and probably brought about by some fear of  what might have been said afterwards over the incident so a fear of some  negative reaction through the media, press etc

seems to me they  (usga) did not pay enough mind to the spirit of the game and the honesty  of all actually involved on the 5th green, fellow competitors, the  rules official to this grouping who made a correct call in my view - and  not least DJ's own integrity during play

knowing oakmont to a  degree having played a couple times, the slopes on the greens are pretty  pronounced and if you instruct that sharp a cut to have that speed on  those slopes you are making this kinda occurrence pretty likely given  even a pretty slight wind - my own opinion course is tough enough to not  have the greens with those slopes probably effectively in many areas  running at 15, 15+

take my cap off to both DJ and Lowry who  didn't make the situation any more difficult for the usga by how they  reacted, to what had taken place on the 5th and the 12th and the  remaining holes, in their post match interviews


----------



## Region3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Fish said:



			Added a word as it seems too many have missed this very important rule change that was implemented in January.
		
Click to expand...

As I understand it, the rule change just removed the part that said the player is responsible for the movement if they've addressed the ball.
If they haven't addressed the ball, the rule is as it always was, ie in the absence of evidence that something else is likely to have caused the ball to move, the player is penalised.


----------



## Region3 (Jun 20, 2016)

the_coach said:



			the  study of what takes place in slow-mo DJ grounds the putter with the  ball off the 'toe' of the putter head, practice stroke/s occur sole of  putter head not in contact with grass or ground during this motion

DJ  starts his moves to start his 'address to the ball' by sliding putter  head behind the ball while it's not in contact with grass or ground
ball makes small part rotation directly backwards towards the putter head - so ball motion is 'backwards'

couple of observations of the 'incident'

- putter head when eventually hovered behind the ball but off the ground could not have caused the ball to roll
-  when the ball 'moved' some time had lapsed since the practice stroke/s  & little more time since the putter head was grounded with the ball  off the 'toe end' of the blade and the ball 'motion' was not in a  direction of movement to where the toe of the putter head had been in  contact with the grass/ground
		
Click to expand...

After watching it again I think he sets the putter down after the practice strokes as well as before them.

I think the penalty was harsh, but playing devils advocate for a minute, isn't the wording of the rule saying that the onus is on finding something else responsible for the movement rather than proving it was the player?

As you said though, crazy fast severely sloping greens were more than likely the cause. Maybe if DJ only won by one he would have argued his case more.


----------



## FairwayDodger (Jun 20, 2016)

Does anyone think the USAga were conscious of the fact that Lowry had called a penalty on himself for this during an earlier round and were concerned about accusations that DJ "got away with it"?

Personally, I think it's just a bad rule. So what if you accidentally move the ball? Just replace it and carry on, no advantage gained, no penalty.


----------



## patricks148 (Jun 20, 2016)

TBH i think the title should be given to Brooks


----------



## MashieNiblick (Jun 20, 2016)

Have the USGA issued any statement at all? Can't see anything on the website.


----------



## williamalex1 (Jun 20, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Does anyone think the USAga were conscious of the fact that Lowry had called a penalty on himself for this during an earlier round and were concerned about accusations that DJ "got away with it"?

Personally, I think it's just a bad rule. So what if you accidentally move the ball? Just replace it and carry on, no advantage gained, no penalty.
		
Click to expand...

Years ago a well known player was penalised for causing his ball to move even though he was a couple yards away.
 Seemingly he stood on the buried end of a old broken branch that was covered by leaves and moss . 
Anyone remember his name, and details ?


----------



## the_coach (Jun 20, 2016)

Region3 said:



			After watching it again I think he sets the putter down after the practice strokes as well as before them.

I think the penalty was harsh, but playing devils advocate for a minute, isn't the wording of the rule saying that the onus is on finding something else responsible for the movement rather than proving it was the player?

As you said though, crazy fast severely sloping greens were more than likely the cause. Maybe if DJ only won by one he would have argued his case more.
		
Click to expand...


understand what you mean Gary

and yep that is the 'rule'

[h=3]18-1. By Outside Agency[/h]   If a ball at rest is _moved_ by an _outside agency_, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. 

*Note:* It is a question of fact whether a ball has been _moved_ by an _outside agency_. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that an _outside agency_ has _moved_  the ball. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player  must play the ball as it lies or, if the ball is not found, proceed  under Rule 27-1. 

my take would still tend to the view that given the 'breeze' and the nature of the prepared surface, how the greens are composed would be enough to ascertain that gravity and conditions combined to be that outside agency particularly when what happened from the players involvement and the eventual direction of the balls movement would suggest (to me) that DJ did not cause the ball to move

am guessing that back in the 'room' they were spooked some by the possible media reaction to the incident

although thankfully it had no input into the final result given the actual scoring (but did it as an 'outside agency" effect the players involved near the top of the leader board thought process playing in from the 12th) think what happened overall and the resulting viewpoint and outcome will sit pretty uncomfortable with any subsequent similar occurrences - without any 'rule' review taking place


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jun 20, 2016)

FairwayDodger;15

Personally said:
			
		


			I totally agree with this. The current rule is typical golf and very daft.
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 20, 2016)

I thought this was a fair summary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/36581181


----------



## MashieNiblick (Jun 21, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			I thought this was a fair summary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/36581181

Click to expand...

Not sure I agree. Seems to be saying better to get a wrong decision quickly than take time to get the right decision.  I do think it is fair given the circs that DJ was given the chance to see the evidence. When was it a good time to do that? Unsatisfactory as it was I'm not sure that the USGA really deserves quite so much flak. It was going to be messy whatever. Of course it suits journalists to have a pop at golf. Let's not forget they have their agenda but unsatisfactory rules or refereeing issues happen in every sport.

USGA have released the following statement. Looks like they are going to learn from this and review their processes.  

The USGA wishes to congratulate Dustin Johnson on his victory and thank him, and the other players in the field, for their professionalism and grace throughout the championship. Dustin is a wonderful champion, a talented golfer and a gentleman.

Our team at the USGA has seen and heard a great deal of discussion and debate about the ruling on Dustinâ€™s ball moving during the final round of the 2016 U.S. Open Championship at Oakmont Country Club. In addition to the explanations we offered upon the conclusion of the final round, we add these comments.

Upon reflection, we regret the distraction caused by our decision to wait until the end of the round to decide on the ruling. It is normal for rulings based on video evidence to await the end of a round, when the matter can be discussed with the player before the score card is returned. While our focus on getting the ruling correct was appropriate, we created uncertainty about where players stood on the leader board after we informed Dustin on the 12th tee that his actions on the fifth green might lead to a penalty. This created unnecessary ambiguity for Dustin and the other players, as well as spectators on-site, and those watching and listening on television and digital channels.

During any competition, the priority for Rules officials is to make the correct ruling for the protection of the player(s) involved and the entire field. In applying Rule 18-2, which deals with a ball at rest that moves, officials consider all the relevant evidence â€“ including the playerâ€™s actions, the time between those actions and the movement of the ball, the lie of the ball, and course and weather conditions. If that evidence, considered together, shows that it is more likely than not that the playerâ€™s actions caused the ball to move, the player incurs a one-stroke penalty. Officials use this â€œmore likely than notâ€ standard because it is not always apparent what caused the ball to move. Such situations require a review of the evidence, with Decision 18-2/0.5 providing guidance on how the evidence should be weighed.

Our officials reviewed the video of Dustin on the fifth green and determined that based on the weight of the evidence, it was more likely than not that Dustin caused his ball to move. Dustinâ€™s putter contacted the ground at the side of the ball, and almost immediately after, the ball moved.

We accept that not everyone will agree that Dustin caused his ball to move. Issues under Rule 18-2 often require a judgment where there is some uncertainty, and this was one of those instances. We also understand that some people may disagree with Rule 18-2 itself. While we respect the viewpoints of those who disagree, our Committee made a careful and collective judgment in its pursuit of a fair competition played under the Rules of Golf.

In keeping with our commitment to excellence in all aspects of our work on behalf of the game of golf, we pledge to closely examine our procedures in this matter. We will assess our procedures for handling video review, the timing of such, and our communication with players to make sure that when confronted with such a situation again, we will have a better process.

We at the USGA deeply appreciate the support of players, fans, and the entire golf community of our championships and our other work for golf â€“ and we appreciate your feedback as well. We have established an email address (comments@usga.org) and phone mailbox (908-326-1857) to receive comments. We thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

We all share an abiding love of this great game. Let us continue to work together for its good.​


----------



## delc (Jun 21, 2016)

The whole point of Rule 18-2 is that you have to be careful not to cause the ball to move before taking a shot, if you are anywhere near it. With no penalty it could be a cheat's charter. The Dustin Johnson incident was probably not well handled, but not a good case for changing the rule.


----------



## duncan mackie (Jun 21, 2016)

delc said:



			The whole point of Rule 18-2 is that you have to be careful not to cause the ball to move before taking a shot, if you are anywhere near it. With no penalty it could be a cheat's charter. The Dustin Johnson incident was probably not well handled, but not a good case for changing the rule.
		
Click to expand...

I don't believe it.... huge :thup:


----------



## delc (Jun 21, 2016)

duncan mackie said:



			I don't believe it.... huge :thup:
		
Click to expand...

It was Rule 18-2b and the exception clause that I didn't like, but that has been removed from the latest version of the rules.


----------



## MashieNiblick (Jun 21, 2016)

delc said:



			The whole point of Rule 18-2 is that you have to be careful not to cause the ball to move before taking a shot, if you are anywhere near it. With no penalty it could be a cheat's charter. The Dustin Johnson incident was probably not well handled, but not a good case for changing the rule.
		
Click to expand...




duncan mackie said:



			I don't believe it.... huge :thup:
		
Click to expand...

But would replacing with no penalty say on the green or a closely mown area when the player is deemed simply to have the "caused" the ball to move really open up that many opportunities for cheating. Might make it more likely people will acknowledge it has happened or call it rather than hope no one has noticed or turn a blind in order to avoid a penalty or a face off.


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Jun 21, 2016)

The USGA seem to be on a mission to bugger up their flagship event every year.   It was the appalling greens at Chambers Bay last year, the farce of watering the greens at Shinnecock in 2004, the flag location on the 18th at Olympia and now this farce.    

My own view is that once the on-course rules official made his decision, it was over.   I thankfully have a lot more faith in the R&A to do it right at the Open.


----------



## Region3 (Jun 21, 2016)

Tweeter Alliss &#8207;@TweeterAlliss  22h

Breaking; UEFA announce USGA's Mike Davis to set up pitch for the Euro Championship Final on July 10th. Splendid.


----------



## Slab (Jun 21, 2016)

MashieNiblick said:



			...  I do think it is fair given the circs that DJ was given the chance to see the evidence. When was it a good time to do that? Unsatisfactory as it was I'm not sure that the USGA really deserves quite so much flak. It was going to be messy whatever. Of course it suits journalists to have a pop at golf. Let's not forget they have their agenda but unsatisfactory rules or refereeing issues happen in every sport.

USGA have released the following statement. Looks like they are going to learn from this and review their processes.  

USGA: It is normal for rulings based on video evidence to await the end of a round, when the matter can be discussed with the player before the score card is returned.​

Click to expand...

But I don't see what the point was in waiting till after the round:
DJ stuck to his point of view saying 'wasn't me' and got 1 stoke pen anyway
If after viewing slo-mo video DJ conceded the point then its a one stroke pen anyway

Exactly the same outcome in either scenario!

It seems the primary objective of waiting until the round is over is to explain to the player _why _they're getting a penalty stroke rather than _whether _a penalty stoke is being applied


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jun 21, 2016)

MashieNiblick said:



			Not sure I agree. *Seems to be saying better to get a wrong decision quickly than take time to get the right decision.*  I do think it is fair given the circs that DJ was given the chance to see the evidence. When was it a good time to do that? Unsatisfactory as it was I'm not sure that the USGA really deserves quite so much flak. It was going to be messy whatever. Of course it suits journalists to have a pop at golf. Let's not forget they have their agenda but *unsatisfactory rules or refereeing issues happen in every sport.*

USGA have released the following statement. Looks like they are going to learn from this and review their processes.The USGA wishes to congratulate Dustin Johnson on his victory and thank him, and the other players in the field, for their professionalism and grace throughout the championship. Dustin is a wonderful champion, a talented golfer and a gentleman.

Our team at the USGA has seen and heard a great deal of discussion and debate about the ruling on Dustinâ€™s ball moving during the final round of the 2016 U.S. Open Championship at Oakmont Country Club. In addition to the explanations we offered upon the conclusion of the final round, we add these comments.

Upon reflection, we regret the distraction caused by our decision to wait until the end of the round to decide on the ruling. It is normal for rulings based on video evidence to await the end of a round, when the matter can be discussed with the player before the score card is returned. While our focus on getting the ruling correct was appropriate, we created uncertainty about where players stood on the leader board after we informed Dustin on the 12th tee that his actions on the fifth green might lead to a penalty. This created unnecessary ambiguity for Dustin and the other players, as well as spectators on-site, and those watching and listening on television and digital channels.

During any competition, the priority for Rules officials is to make the correct ruling for the protection of the player(s) involved and the entire field. In applying Rule 18-2, which deals with a ball at rest that moves, officials consider all the relevant evidence â€“ including the playerâ€™s actions, the time between those actions and the movement of the ball, the lie of the ball, and course and weather conditions. If that evidence, considered together, shows that it is more likely than not that the playerâ€™s actions caused the ball to move, the player incurs a one-stroke penalty. Officials use this â€œmore likely than notâ€ standard because it is not always apparent what caused the ball to move. Such situations require a review of the evidence, with Decision 18-2/0.5 providing guidance on how the evidence should be weighed.

Our officials reviewed the video of Dustin on the fifth green and determined that based on the weight of the evidence, it was more likely than not that Dustin caused his ball to move. Dustinâ€™s putter contacted the ground at the side of the ball, and almost immediately after, the ball moved.

We accept that not everyone will agree that Dustin caused his ball to move. Issues under Rule 18-2 often require a judgment where there is some uncertainty, and this was one of those instances. We also understand that some people may disagree with Rule 18-2 itself. While we respect the viewpoints of those who disagree, our Committee made a careful and collective judgment in its pursuit of a fair competition played under the Rules of Golf.

In keeping with our commitment to excellence in all aspects of our work on behalf of the game of golf, we pledge to closely examine our procedures in this matter. We will assess our procedures for handling video review, the timing of such, and our communication with players to make sure that when confronted with such a situation again, we will have a better process.

We at the USGA deeply appreciate the support of players, fans, and the entire golf community of our championships and our other work for golf â€“ and we appreciate your feedback as well. We have established an email address (comments@usga.org) and phone mailbox (908-326-1857) to receive comments. We thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

We all share an abiding love of this great game. Let us continue to work together for its good.​

Click to expand...

I agree that incorrect decisions happen in every sport, but that is kind of the point I think.  In no other sport do you wait until the end of the game/match until you make a decision on something that happened during the match/game that would effect the result.  It kind of makes the game look stupid.  As added to that is the fact that it is patently obvious that there was no advantage gained here whatsoever.

In a way I'd say it is better to make *a* decision as quickly as possible based on the best evidence you have at the time and then move on.  I think every other sport does that. Yes it may turn out that one or two of them are the wrong decision, but that is sport to a certain extent, it is not a science.  It is entertainment and they are in the business of putting on a show. To let that drag on and confuse the viewing public plus the players is a bit of an own goal. IMHO. Can you imagine if the 1 shot penalty had put him into a playoff or had even lost him the championship by 1 stroke.


----------



## duncan mackie (Jun 21, 2016)

Pathetic Shark said:



			My own view is that once the on-course rules official made his decision, it was over.   I thankfully have a lot more faith in the R&A to do it right at the Open.
		
Click to expand...

I have absolute confidence that the R &A would have ruled the same way, and probably implemented it the same way in the same circumstances as well.

As to the referee,  he is ruling on the basis of 'if this then that' - when 'this' is not as advise then 'that' may not be correct either.


----------

