# Liverpool - It's not looking too bad in the transfer market



## MadAdey (Jun 27, 2014)

Looks like Rodgers is making some good moves in transfer market now. Deals for Can and Lambert already done and it looks like Origi and Lallana will be players very soon. Also rumours are the Moreno situation is going to get wrapped up by Liverpool upping their offer. 

Other players that are being strongly linked with a move going to happen are:
Konoplankya
Shaqiri
Lovren

looking quite good actually IMO. Different dimensions in the attacking roles and a CB and LB would certainly help with leaking goals.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2014)

Also linked with Sanchez,(can't see it happening tbh) but it would be a quality signing. I'd snap Barca's hand off for Sanchez plus money for Suarez.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Looks like Rodgers is making some good moves in transfer market now. Deals for Can and Lambert already done and it looks like Origi and Lallana will be players very soon. Also rumours are the Moreno situation is going to get wrapped up by Liverpool upping their offer. 

Other players that are being strongly linked with a move going to happen are:
Konoplankya
Shaqiri
Lovren

looking quite good actually IMO. Different dimensions in the attacking roles and a CB and LB would certainly help with leaking goals.
		
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Certainly showing some intent and all the players are techincally good players

Shaqiri would be a great signing if that is pulled off.

Dont think we really need Konoplankya but Lovren would be a great signing

Southamptom could need a whole new team


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## hamshanker (Jun 27, 2014)

Definately gotta strengthen in the defence,with the Suarez situation if he does go then a good solid defence will counter balance the goals that we will miss from him.

Good to see Liverpool getting in early doing their buisness and getting players in rather than leaving it till last minute...


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## MadAdey (Jun 27, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Also linked with Sanchez,(can't see it happening tbh) but it would be a quality signing. I'd snap Barca's hand off for Sanchez plus money for Suarez.
		
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Some of the rumours I have read are saying that the are Barca are willing throw both Pedro and Sanchez into the deal to try and make it happen. Another thing I have read is they are willing to do those 2 plus cash for Suarez if a deal for Agger could be done too.


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## MadAdey (Jun 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly showing some intent and all the players are techincally good players

Shaqiri would be a great signing if that is pulled off.

Dont think we really need Konoplankya
		
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Shaqiri would be fantastic and I think the Konlankya deal is to try and give more options in the wide positions. We really do not have any out and out wingers that will hug the line and stretch the play, we keep relying on the full backs to do it, which as happened last year left us exposed at times.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Some of the rumours I have read are saying that the are Barca are willing throw both Pedro and Sanchez into the deal to try and make it happen. Another thing I have read is they are willing to do those 2 plus cash for Suarez if a deal for Agger could be done too.
		
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Obviously Barca will have to convince the players to go to Liverpool. Sanchez is having a good WC so may have other options. Pedro looks average to me.


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## hamshanker (Jun 27, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Obviously Barca will have to convince the players to go to Liverpool. Sanchez is having a good WC so may have other options. Pedro looks average to me.
		
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Thats the thing we dont want players that are being forced to come to us just to brooker a deal we want players that want to be here and want to play for the team.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

hamshanker said:



			Thats the thing we dont want players that are being forced to come to us just to brooker a deal we want players that want to be here and want to play for the team.
		
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Bang on. That's why it's  imperative if we sell Suarez then we do it on our terms and get the full Â£90-100m he's worth, not a drib and drab deal.


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2014)

What a backwards step for the Swiss lad.

Don't understand that move.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2014)

Dodger said:



			What a backwards step for the Swiss lad.

Don't understand that move.
		
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Whats not to understand ?

He currently isnt playing first team football regulary on sits on the bench 

Would move to a club playing the sort of football he would shine in whilst competing in the biggest tournaments and for one of the biggest clubs in Europe


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Bang on. That's why it's  imperative if we sell Suarez then we do it on our terms and get the full Â£90-100m he's worth, not a drib and drab deal.
		
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That could be easier said than done,he's screwed Liverpool big time.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whats not to understand ?

He currently isnt playing first team football regulary on sits on the bench 

Would move to a club playing the sort of football he would shine in whilst competing in the biggest tournaments and for one of the biggest clubs in Europe
		
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One of the clubs with the biggest History,Big difference :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			That could be easier said than done,he's screwed Liverpool big time.
		
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He's screwed Uruguay more so, they had a serious chance to do well in this world cup.

To be honest i think Liverppol hold the ace, he's tied to a long massive contract, Worst case Liverpool could afford to pay his wages and him not play for 4 months. Whether they do or not is a separate issue.

I'm certain they've had a proper brief on the case working out if they can get away without paying him though.

As a player i still love the crazy little fecker though


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			He's screwed Uruguay more so,* they had a serious chance to do well in this world cup*.

To be honest i think Liverppol hold the ace, he's tied to a long massive contract, Worst case Liverpool could afford to pay his wages and him not play for 4 months. Whether they do or not is a separate issue.

I'm certain they've had a proper brief on the case working out if they can get away without paying him though.

As a player i still love the crazy little fecker though 

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Eh?

What team have you been looking at?

They were/are never a prospect with or without him.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			He's screwed Uruguay more so, they had a serious chance to do well in this world cup.

To be honest i think Liverppol hold the ace, he's tied to a long massive contract, Worst case Liverpool could afford to pay his wages and him not play for 4 months. Whether they do or not is a separate issue.

I'm certain they've had a proper brief on the case working out if they can get away without paying him though.

As a player i still love the crazy little fecker though 

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I'd love to see Liverpool try & not pay him. Suarez holds the Ace,if he wants to leave he will. The man as no morals. 
This whole incident will hurt Liverpool the most,best thing they can do is get the highest price possible for him. Obviously you'd be happy for him to stay,not sure I would.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Eh?

What team have you been looking at?

They were/are never a prospect with or without him.
		
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Seriuosly? Uruguay are a different side without him.

Once its into the knockout stages you only need  a little bit of magic to win the game  and he's got ton's of it.


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Seriuosly? Uruguay are a different side without him.

Once its into the knockout stages you only need  a little bit of magic to win the game  and he's got ton's of it.
		
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The rest of the team are gash and even with him they are not all that which was proved by limping passed 2 poor teams in the group stage with him.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'd love to see Liverpool try & not pay him. Suarez holds the Ace*,if he wants to leave he will.* *The man as no morals. *
This whole incident will hurt Liverpool the most,best thing they can do is get the highest price possible for him. Obviously you'd be happy for him to stay,not sure I would.
		
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He wanted away last year and the same was said then.

There are NO morals in football whatsoever so he's not alone there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			He wanted away last year and the same was said then.

There are NO morals in football whatsoever so he's not alone there.
		
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There arent many teams that can take a moral high ground in football

But im guessing the thread has turned to Suarez already ?


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The rest of the team are gash and even with him they are not all that which was proved by limping passed 2 poor teams in the group stage with him.
		
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Unfortunately, the best team doesn't always win. 

They've got a decent chance of the semi's if results fall their way.


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## davemc1 (Jun 27, 2014)

Don't make this thread about him. He's got his own, and it's getting tiresome

wouldnt mind decent cover for mignolet and a horrible dirty defensive midfielder. Not sure they exist anymore though


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2014)

davemc1 said:



			Don't make this thread about him. He's got his own, and it's getting tiresome

wouldnt mind decent cover for mignolet and a horrible dirty defensive midfielder. Not sure they exist anymore though
		
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Wouldnt mind Begovic and Mignolet being the decent cover for him

Emre will be a good defensive cm


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## Dodger (Jun 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Whats not to understand ?

He currently isnt playing first team football regulary on sits on the bench 

Would move to a club playing the sort of football he would shine in whilst competing in the biggest tournaments and for one of the biggest clubs in Europe
		
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It's a step down club wise.Yes he may play more games but club stature wise it's a step down. Surprised at his age he can't see himself staying and winning a regular slot at a huge,huge football club.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wouldnt mind Begovic and Mignolet being the decent cover for him

Emre will be a good defensive cm
		
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We've got a perfectly good keeper in Reina. Head and shoulders above Mignolet.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It's a step down club wise.Yes he may play more games but club stature wise it's a step down. Surprised at his age he can't see himself staying and winning a regular slot at a huge,huge football club.
		
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Some players would prefer to play regular football - and he will do - at a high level. 

He has players like Goetze , Kroos and Thiago ahead of him in the team.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			We've got a perfectly good keeper in Reina. Head and shoulders above Mignolet.
		
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Think he burned his bridges though


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			We've got a perfectly good keeper in Reina. Head and shoulders above Mignolet.
		
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Is Reina returning? Thought he wasn't happy with how he was treated?


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## davemc1 (Jun 27, 2014)

Reinas not coming back. He was/is Rodgers, if you don't like it you can go. His way of putting his mark on the club. Get a big name out and shake the place up a little


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Is Reina returning? Thought he wasn't happy with how he was treated?
		
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Napoli don't want to pay his wages and neither do Liverpool.

He's a much better keeper than Mignolet, another 1 season wonder who actually wasn't that great at sunderland tbh.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 27, 2014)

davemc1 said:



			Reinas not coming back. He was/is Rodgers, if you don't like it you can go. His way of putting his mark on the club. Get a big name out and shake the place up a little
		
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Until he's sold he is still a Liverpool player.


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## c1973 (Jun 27, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Eh?

What team have you been looking at?

They were/are never a prospect with or without him.
		
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Semi finalists at the last tourney. I think they were an outside chance with his ability to score out of nothing.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Semi finalists at the last tourney. I think they were an outside chance with his ability to score out of nothing.
		
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As outside as England,they were never ever a prospect and were soundly put out last night.

To say they had any chance of winning it is simply ridiculous.


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## c1973 (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			As outside as England,they were never ever a prospect and were soundly put out last night.

To say they had any chance of winning it is simply ridiculous.
		
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Cops America winners and semi finalists at the last world cup. Not a record that would lead to many teams being written off before a ball is kicked imo, particularly on their own continent. To mention England in the same sentence as them in terms of prospects is what's ridiculous, not a realistic comparison at all when you look at recent big tourney performances.

Put out by quite possibly the best and most consistent team in the tourney so far.

What buggered them wasn't Suarez, they went downhill when they discovered a kilted clown wearing a deck chair and a see you Jimmy hat in the support.....nae chance of being successful with that hex on them at a big tourney!


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Cops America winners and semi finalists at the last world cup. Not a record that would lead to many teams being written off before a ball is kicked imo, particularly on their own continent. To mention England in the same sentence as them in terms of prospects is what's ridiculous, not a realistic comparison at all when you look at recent big tourney performances.

Put out by quite possibly the best and most consistent team in the tourney so far.

What buggered them wasn't Suarez, they went downhill when they discovered a kilted clown wearing a deck chair and a see you Jimmy hat in the support.....nae chance of being successful with that hex on them at a big tourney! 

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3 and 4 years ago.They were never going to feature regardless of what they did back then.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 29, 2014)

So back to Liverpool 

Looks like we bidding for Markovic as well - certainly looking we are trying to get the younger players into the team


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 29, 2014)

Some good signings and potential buys. If I were the Liverpool owners I'd be getting shot of Suarez now and maybe getting one, maybe two big signings with the cash and I think there's the making of a good and deep squad which will be perfect if they have a good season and playing lots of games


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

Any decent defenders on the radar? 
Surely Brenda's learnt his lesson


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## hamshanker (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Any decent defenders on the radar? 
Surely Brenda's learnt his lesson
		
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At this moment in time i dont think he has coz our signings and potential buys are midfielders and strikers upto now and im thinking hes looking at playing the same attacking football as we did last season and that we are gonna score more than you attitude which to the neutral is fantastic to watch but as we found out it doesnt always pan out like that,we need someone who can shout n scream and organise the defence like a carragher which we missed last season but there aint any defenders in the gossips.....


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Fed up of seeing on here Liverpool 5hi7e..night ,night...............There are are lot of other clubs


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Fed up of seeing on here Liverpool 5hi7e..night ,night...............There are are lot of other clubs
		
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Don't read the thread and start a thread about your club then.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don't read the thread and start a thread about your club then.
		
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ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............


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## hamshanker (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............
		
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Says it all in the title no ones forcing you to look in.......


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Fed up of seeing on here Liverpool 5hi7e..night ,night...............There are are lot of other clubs
		
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The clue's in the title. If you don't want to read it then ignore the thread.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

hamshanker said:



			says it all in the title no ones forcing you to look in.......
		
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The clue's in the title. If you don't want to read it then ignore the thread.
		
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No probs night night


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## hamshanker (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			No probs night night
		
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Awww dont be like that come on start a post about your team and we will have a chat about them:thup:


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## gmc40 (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Fed up of seeing on here Liverpool 5hi7e..night ,night...............There are are lot of other clubs
		
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Most of the posters going on about LFC on this forum don't support them. They seem more obsessed than the Liverpool fans. I note you're not averse to commenting on them either.

And as above, no-ones stopping you starting one about your club.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Most of the posters going on about LFC on this forum don't support them. They seem more obsessed than the Liverpool fans. I note you're not averse to commenting on them either.

And as above, no-ones stopping you starting one about your club.
		
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The obsession thing again 
Maybe look at the reason/person as to why Liverpool get discussed so much.
It's no coincidence that they get talked about more than utd/Chelsea/arsenal/City..... 
& no there's no vendetta towards Liverpool.


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## gmc40 (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			The obsession thing again 
Maybe look at the reason/person as to why Liverpool get discussed so much.
It's no coincidence that they get talked about more than utd/Chelsea/arsenal/City..... 
& no there's no vendetta towards Liverpool.
		
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I'm a neutral so no allegiances here but it's obvious. Who do you support btw?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			I'm a neutral so no allegiances here but it's obvious. Who do you support btw?
		
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Chelsea,not sure of the relevance tho.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Southamptom could need a whole new team
		
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We are being ripped apart! 

Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovren and Schneiderling all heading out the door. All the official talk is that the money will go back into new signings but they take time to gel. I was hoping that after last season we would push onwards and upwards but we could very well get drawn into a relegation battle


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## gmc40 (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Chelsea,not sure of the relevance tho.
		
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Just curious, never hear you speak of them despite the number of football related threads you comment in. 

How they doing in the transfer market? Are they eyeing up any Strikers for the new season?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Just curious, never hear you speak of them despite the number of football related threads you comment in. 

How they doing in the transfer market? Are they eyeing up any Strikers for the new season?
		
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Apparently the Costa deal is as good as done. Not convinced by him tbh. Time will tell. Hopefully we'll keep Lukaku & give him a good chance. 
I'll try & discuss Chrlsea more,just for you :thup:


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## hamshanker (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently the Costa deal is as good as done. Not convinced by him tbh. Time will tell. Hopefully we'll keep Lukaku & give him a good chance. 
I'll try & discuss Chrlsea more,just for you :thup:
		
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Oooiii get ya own post about chelski eh :ears: :thup:


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## gmc40 (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Apparently the Costa deal is as good as done. Not convinced by him tbh. Time will tell. Hopefully we'll keep Lukaku & give him a good chance. 
I'll try & discuss Chrlsea more,just for you :thup:
		
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Thanks. I'd rather we kept Lukaku but may be a bit pricey.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

hamshanker said:



			Oooiii get ya own post about chelski eh :ears: :thup:
		
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:rofl::rofl:
Nah,it'll just end up with 400+ posts about parking the bus.


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## hamshanker (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			:rofl::rofl:
Nah,it'll just end up with 400+ posts about parking the bus.
		
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Ooooh i and 400+ wouldnt mention that at all what do you take us for tut


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## hamshanker (Jun 29, 2014)

Have to admit too im not to convinced about Costa either from what ive seen of him but he must have something about him if Jose wants him..


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## MadAdey (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Any decent defenders on the radar? 
Surely Brenda's learnt his lesson
		
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Moreno as a new LB is looking like a deal that could happen if we up our bid for him and the talk is it could be happening in the next few days. Also Fazio from Sevilla is another name being thrown around. I think regarding defenders, Rodgers is probably keeping his cards close to his chest seeing as Arsenal, Man Utd and Barca are all looking for new CBs. So Rodgers is probably not trying to alert other teams as he wants to sneak under the radar and snap them up.


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## MadAdey (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Fed up of seeing on here Liverpool 5hi7e..night ,night...............There are are lot of other clubs
		
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The clue is in the title! I get fed up with reading Tiger Woods threads, but I do not go not them to tell everyone I am, I just use my brain and avoid them. Not too difficult is it..........


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## Papas1982 (Jun 30, 2014)

drive4show said:



			We are being ripped apart! 

Lambert, Lallana, Shaw, Lovren and Schneiderling all heading out the door. All the official talk is that the money will go back into new signings but they take time to gel. I was hoping that after last season we would push onwards and upwards but we could very well get drawn into a relegation battle  

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Have faith, in targett, clyne and chambers fullbacks are fine. I see a midfield 3 of cork/Davis/wanyama. Front 3 of j rod, prowse and Ramirez is still a lot better than we have had in the past. Cb and new keeper needed for first team then if rumours are true. Close tomÂ£100m of replacements on top!


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 30, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Fed up of seeing on here Liverpool 5hi7e..night ,night...............There are are lot of other clubs
		
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Oh, the irony.



Pin-seeker said:



			The obsession thing again 
Maybe look at the reason/person as to why Liverpool get discussed so much.
It's no coincidence that they get talked about more than utd/Chelsea/arsenal/City..... 
& no there's no vendetta towards Liverpool.
		
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 Oh, the irony (2) - The vendetta returneth.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

Lallana has completed his transfer to us 

Maybe a bit pricey but think he can really flourish in our team and system - great step up to the next level for him


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Can't make my mind up about this. Assuming Suarez stays, and he plays alongside Sterling and Sturridge this seems an awful lot to fork out for a regular bench warmer. Can't see him forcing himself into the starting line up on the basis of those three and in the CL chances are you'll play one or two up front and put more in midfield especially away, and that's going to limit chances even more. 

I wonder if this signing is an early replacement at a cheaper price if and when Suarez goes. At that time, clubs will obviously add a few more million onto any price so it might be a good move. Of course if he doesn't (I still think he will though) its a lot for a super sub


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## Rooter (Jul 1, 2014)

I like lallama, good signing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can't make my mind up about this. Assuming Suarez stays, and he plays alongside Sterling and Sturridge this seems an awful lot to fork out for a regular bench warmer. Can't see him forcing himself into the starting line up on the basis of those three and in the CL chances are you'll play one or two up front and put more in midfield especially away, and that's going to limit chances even more. 

I wonder if this signing is an early replacement at a cheaper price if and when Suarez goes. At that time, clubs will obviously add a few more million onto any price so it might be a good move. Of course if he doesn't (I still think he will though) its a lot for a super sub
		
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It's no longer an 11 man game - there are lots of games to be played throughout the season and teams need big squads - starting line ups are never the same 11 - Lallana will start his fair share of games and will be more than a super sub - regardless of if Suarez stays and when we add more reinforcements to the team. 

Lallana can play either wide or behind a front player and even I suspect in the midfield.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's no longer an 11 man game - there are lots of games to be played throughout the season and teams need big squads - starting line ups are never the same 11 - Lallana will start his fair share of games and will be more than a super sub - regardless of if Suarez stays and when we add more reinforcements to the team. 

Lallana can play either wide or behind a front player and even I suspect in the midfield.
		
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Sorry. Forgot that all things Liverpool are gospel according to you. I'm sorry but I disagree. Lallana is far more effective as a striker and think his England showing has proved that. With the current line up he won't get too many starts and even less when Rogers has to pick more conservative sides in away CL games. It's an opinion! I think Sterling and Sturridge will be the wide players with Suarez through the middle like last season. He may get a game replacing one of the wider men but IN MY OPINION, that isn't playing to his strengths


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's no longer an 11 man game - there are lots of games to be played throughout the season and teams need big squads - starting line ups are never the same 11 - Lallana will start his fair share of games and will be more than a super sub - regardless of if Suarez stays and when we add more reinforcements to the team. 

Lallana can play either wide or behind a front player and even I suspect in the midfield.
		
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+1

I think he may play left centre in a 4-3-3, or even if in a diamond four, as Rodgers used a lot towards the end of last season. Lallana seems adaptable.

Homer, we only had 13 good players last season and no Europe. If you want to challenge City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal and compete in the CL, you need 18-20 good players, and a few decent youngsters coming through for use in the FA and Carling early rounds.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

On the plus side if Suarez goes and he does play up front I think he will be an asset and I like Liverpool's statement of intent. Good that they have depth as City United and Chelsea have shown in recent years


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## One Planer (Jul 1, 2014)

I'm still _concerned_ that Liverpool haven't made any significant signings in defence.

This was, arguably, the only part of the 11 that let them down over last season.


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## NWJocko (Jul 1, 2014)

Good addition, if expensive, for the premier league.

Having watched him for England recently I'm not sure he's quite at the level to make a difference in the CL but could be wrong, not seen much if him before.

Liverpool will be lucky to have as few injuries as they had last year so need players everywhere, defenders more required for the team than anywhere else I'd say.


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## Rooter (Jul 1, 2014)

Gareth said:



			I'm still _concerned_ that Liverpool haven't made any significant signings in defence.

This was, arguably, the only part of the 11 that let them down over last season.
		
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Lovren next from the St Mary's sweet shop.


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## gmc40 (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



*Sorry. Forgot that all things Liverpool are gospel according to you*. I'm sorry but I disagree. Lallana is far more effective as a striker and think his England showing has proved that. With the current line up he won't get too many starts and even less when Rogers has to pick more conservative sides in away CL games. *It's an opinion! *I think Sterling and Sturridge will be the wide players with Suarez through the middle like last season. He may get a game replacing one of the wider men *but IN MY OPINION*, that isn't playing to his strengths
		
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Re: BIB. What's with all the drama? I didn't see anything in the post you responded to justify you getting on your soapbox. Stop being a big girls blouse! It's not the first time you've overreacted to a nothing post from Phil.

BTW for the Liverpool fans, I have to agree with a couple of the other comments above, when are you going to buy some defenders?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 1, 2014)

Rooter said:



			Lovren next from the St Mary's sweet shop.
		
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Maybe right, although I think Liverpool could sign any defender in the world and that aspect if their game won't improve as Rodgers doesn't respect the defensive side of the game IMOIMO


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry. Forgot that all things Liverpool are gospel according to you. I'm sorry but I disagree. Lallana is far more effective as a striker and think his England showing has proved that. With the current line up he won't get too many starts and even less when Rogers has to pick more conservative sides in away CL games. It's an opinion! I think Sterling and Sturridge will be the wide players with Suarez through the middle like last season. He may get a game replacing one of the wider men but IN MY OPINION, that isn't playing to his strengths
		
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No idea where that reaction comes from but the Southampton lads will also tell you - Lallana is not a striker. You may have that opinion but he didn't play as striker for Southampton and he didn't play as a striker for England - he played either in a wide forward role or supporting from behind.


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## adam6177 (Jul 1, 2014)

Gareth said:



			I'm still _concerned_ that Liverpool haven't made any significant signings in defence.

This was, arguably, the only part of the 11 that let them down over last season.
		
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I'm not overly concerned TBH.... I saw yesterday that Enrique is back in training, Skrtel and Agger in the middle with Johnson at right back....I know Johnson gets slaughtered by many but personally I don't agree.

For me I think we have the right personnel....but I think something is obviously lacking in training rather than them being bad defenders.  I'd be happier to see a new defensive coach employed rather than making the squad bigger.  After all we have flannagan, Kelly, Kolo, robinson etc all waiting in the wings.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 1, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			BTW for the Liverpool fans, I have to agree with a couple of the other comments above, when are you going to buy some defenders?
		
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Defenders, DEFENDERS - We don't need them, defenders are for weak managers.

Anyway, we only need two in our 2,3,5 formation!


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## Birchy (Jul 1, 2014)

adam6177 said:



			I'm not overly concerned TBH.... I saw yesterday that Enrique is back in training, Skrtel and Agger in the middle with Johnson at right back....I know Johnson gets slaughtered by many but personally I don't agree.

For me I think we have the right personnel....but I think something is obviously lacking in training rather than them being bad defenders.  I'd be happier to see a new defensive coach employed rather than making the squad bigger.  After all we have flannagan, Kelly, Kolo, robinson etc all waiting in the wings.
		
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Trouble with that is :-

Agger has chocolate legs. 

Johnson has a faulty sat nav. 

Kolo Toure is an absolute mule of a defender.

Skrtel is aggressive in the fact he wants everybody's shirt but he doesn't seem to be much of a leader or consistent.

I think just changing personnel to better players would have saved a fair few goals last season imo.


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## Rooter (Jul 1, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe right, although I think Liverpool could sign any defender in the world and that aspect if their game won't improve as Rodgers doesn't respect the defensive side of the game IMOIMO
		
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What are you saying about Kolo?


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## adam6177 (Jul 1, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Trouble with that is :-

Agger has chocolate legs. 

Johnson has a faulty sat nav. 

Kolo Toure is an absolute mule of a defender.

Skrtel is aggressive in the fact he wants everybody's shirt but he doesn't seem to be much of a leader or consistent.

I think just changing personnel to better players would have saved a fair few goals last season imo.
		
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ha ha Dagger is slightly injury prone isn't he.... and I wont have a bad word said about teenage mutant ninja skrtel....he is epic.

As for kolo....what a backup that man is.

Each to their own, but I have faith in the players....... I forgot to mention Sakho as well.  Not the most gifted of footballers but he sure can defend.


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## JCW (Jul 1, 2014)

Rogers is the problem , his tactics cost liverpool the title last year , weak link , they need to get him out , he will get found out in champions league this year with his all out attacking style , they cant defend and he has gone out and bought more forwards , weak link , get shot of him to move on ....................


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No idea where that reaction comes from but the Southampton lads will also tell you - Lallana is not a striker. You may have that opinion but he didn't play as striker for Southampton and he didn't play as a striker for England - he played either in a wide forward role or supporting from behind.
		
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I don't think he'll give you anything from wide that Sturridge and Sterling don't but at greater pace. I think for what he'll offer Liverpool, especially in the roles you describe that he's overpriced. Can't see him featuring regularly in the CL especially away. I stand to be proved wrong once the season starts though


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

I have a feeling you really haven't seen him play much. Not so long ago you were claiming he is a striker 

Lallana adds more creative on the ball , he finds space very well and can pick a very good pass, very good from a dead ball situation - he is the exact type of player that Rodgers likes - technically very good and looks after the ball well. He will play his part and will fight it out with Coutinho for the creative wide or deep role in a 4-3-3.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2014)

He's a decent player but that's about it at the minute. At 26 & costing Â£25m he needs to hit the ground running. 
Not sure I'd be too excited about signing Lellana & Lambert tbh. 
If Suarez does go I think Liverpool will struggle to make top 4 whilst also playing in the CL.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			Rogers is the problem , his tactics cost liverpool the title last year , weak link , they need to get him out , he will get found out in champions league this year with his all out attacking style , they cant defend and he has gone out and bought more forwards , weak link , get shot of him to move on ....................
		
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If you only take 2 of the last 3 games into it. What about the previous 35? 

From 8th to 2nd in one season, finished above Mourinho, Wenger...... new fangled footy fan are you?


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## JCW (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			If you only take 2 of the last 3 games into it. What about the previous 35? 

From 8th to 2nd in one season, finished above Mourinho, Wenger...... new fangled footy fan are you?
		
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No , but they got lucky last year and caught teams out , their attacking style caught many teams out , no jaws next year and other teams know how they play and they will just do a chelsea and sit and wait , Rogers cant hold a candle to Wenger , only jose of the current managers can , Liverpool cant defend , its well known , Rogers is a novice and next year he will have CL as well , he did not have that problem last year ......................EYF


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			No , but they got lucky last year and caught teams out , their attacking style caught many teams out , no jaws next year and other teams know how they play and they will just do a chelsea and sit and wait , Rogers cant hold a candle to Wenger , only jose of the current managers can , Liverpool cant defend , its well known , Rogers is a novice and next year he will have CL as well , he did not have that problem last year ......................EYF
		
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Not verylucky finishing 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] now is it? Donâ€™t most premiership managers work on shape all week, watch and show countless videos on the opposition and plan for weekend games at least 1-2, or even 4-5 days in advance, if they have no midweek game.
Rogers cant hold a candle to Wenger over 15 years, but maybe give him timeâ€¦.but this is the same Wenger who has been making the same mistakes for 8 years now. Ask half your support.
Liverpoolâ€™s defeding wasnâ€™t great last season, but heâ€™s only 2 years in and hasnâ€™t had tonnes of millions to spend. He has improved Henderson, Sturridge, and brought through Sterling and Flanagan.
So you stick with Wenger, who didnâ€™t win a trophy for 7-8 years, but you are saying get rid of a manager who is only 2 years in and has taken us from 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]  to eigth. Go on explain that inconsistent reasoning.

Are you another one who lets bitterness cloud your  thoughts, or do you actually believe in the above?

EYB


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## Papas1982 (Jul 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			Rogers is the problem , his tactics cost liverpool the title last year , weak link , they need to get him out , he will get found out in champions league this year with his all out attacking style , they cant defend and he has gone out and bought more forwards , weak link , get shot of him to move on ....................
		
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Do you just look to troll every thread? Whilst Rodgers has to improve his defensive awareness. They'd not be where they are now without him.


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## guest100718 (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:




Not verylucky finishing 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] now is it? Donâ€™t most premiership managers work on shape all week, watch and show countless videos on the opposition and plan for weekend games at least 1-2, or even 4-5 days in advance, if they have no midweek game.
Rogers cant hold a candle to Wenger over 15 years, but maybe give him timeâ€¦.but this is the same Wenger who has been making the same mistakes for 8 years now. Ask half your support.
Liverpoolâ€™s defeding wasnâ€™t great last season, but heâ€™s only 2 years in and hasnâ€™t had tonnes of millions to spend. He has improved Henderson, Sturridge, and brought through Sterling and Flanagan.
So you stick with Wenger, who didnâ€™t win a trophy for 7-8 years, but you are saying get rid of a manager who is only 2 years in and has taken us from 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]  to eigth. Go on explain that inconsistent reasoning.

Are you another one who lets bitterness cloud your  thoughts, or do you actually believe in the above?

EYB


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I think point 4 is this coming season..


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## MadAdey (Jul 2, 2014)

Why are people so obsessed with hatred for Liverpool? I started this thread to chat about any transfer rumours and what people think about signings that are being made, not for people to just come on and start wumming. 

But if we are wumming then let me sum up the other teams. 

United are going out and paying over inflated prices for players and god knows what will be next.

Arsenal are probably just going to go out buy some more lightweight fancy players and forget that they need some backbone to their team. 

City, well they seem to be looking for that certain player that is going to take them that step forward, not going to be easy with how good that squad is already.

Chelsea, Costa signing and Lukaku returning should help their problems up top. No doubt Maureen has got something up his sleeve for the transfer window. He already has a pretty good squad and with a few tweeks will only get better.


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## JCW (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:




Not verylucky finishing 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] now is it? Donâ€™t most premiership managers work on shape all week, watch and show countless videos on the opposition and plan for weekend games at least 1-2, or even 4-5 days in advance, if they have no midweek game.
Rogers cant hold a candle to Wenger over 15 years, but maybe give him timeâ€¦.but this is the same Wenger who has been making the same mistakes for 8 years now. Ask half your support.
Liverpoolâ€™s defeding wasnâ€™t great last season, but heâ€™s only 2 years in and hasnâ€™t had tonnes of millions to spend. He has improved Henderson, Sturridge, and brought through Sterling and Flanagan.
So you stick with Wenger, who didnâ€™t win a trophy for 7-8 years, but you are saying get rid of a manager who is only 2 years in and has taken us from 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]  to eigth. Go on explain that inconsistent reasoning.

Are you another one who lets bitterness cloud your  thoughts, or do you actually believe in the above?

EYB


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One good season and you think you are there , dont work like that , takes time , As a club Liverpools CL record is very good , but Rogers CL is zero , last year his league winning abilities were tested and found wanting , its a learning curve and without jaws what they going to do , guy is an outstanding goal scorer and is going to be a big loss and they are spending money already that is going to come from his sale , as for wenger , No manager could do what he did at Arsenal for all those years with little money , he has won Doubles , an unbeaten season , no mean feat that and built a new stadium and kept the team up there , they had chances to win but now they winning again , Liverpool like spurs , everton all need a bigger stadium to get the revenue in to take on chelsea and man city ,Rogers is not in the same league , we will see this year now jaws is not around and  for the record i rather liverpool won the league last year and not money bags city , he is the best british manger but dont get carried away by one season ......................


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Why are people so obsessed with hatred for Liverpool? I started this thread to chat about any transfer rumours and what people think about signings that are being made, not for people to just come on and start wumming. 

But if we are wumming then let me sum up the other teams. 

United are going out and paying over inflated prices for players and god knows what will be next.

Arsenal are probably just going to go out buy some more lightweight fancy players and forget that they need some backbone to their team. 

City, well they seem to be looking for that certain player that is going to take them that step forward, not going to be easy with how good that squad is already.

Chelsea, Costa signing and Lukaku returning should help their problems up top. No doubt Maureen has got something up his sleeve for the transfer window. He already has a pretty good squad and with a few tweets will only get better.
		
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What about little old Spurs ? 

I guess there short time as a bigger team has ended and back to mid table scrapping


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			One good season and you think you are there , dont work like that , takes time , As a club Liverpools CL record is very good , but Rogers CL is zero , last year his league winning abilities were tested and found wanting , its a learning curve and without jaws what they going to do , guy is an outstanding goal scorer and is going to be a big loss and they are spending money already that is going to come from his sale , as for wenger , No manager could do what he did at Arsenal for all those years with little money , he has won Doubles , an unbeaten season , no mean feat that and built a new stadium and kept the team up there , they had chances to win but now they winning again , Liverpool like spurs , everton all need a bigger stadium to get the revenue in to take on chelsea and man city ,Rogers is not in the same league , we will see this year now jaws is not around and  for the record i rather liverpool won the league last year and money bags city , he is the best british manger but dont get carried away by one season ......................
		
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1. No one has suggested we are there and no one is getting carried away

2. Our manager is short on CL experience because he hasn't managed there yet - but I have no doubt he will work things out.

3. It's a building process for the long term which includes increased capacity for the stadium and building a young bright team for the future. If Suarez leaves then we move on spend his fee well and improve the whole squad instead of relying on one player.

4. Arsenal have had a bigger stadium for a while now and not once have taken on City and Chelsea throughout the whole season - our manager had a better PL season than Wenger has had for the last 8 seasons and expect him to build on that 

5. Finally - his name is not Rogers - it's Rodgers.


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## JCW (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about little old Spurs ? 

I guess there short time as a bigger team has ended and back to mid table scrapping 

Click to expand...

They had one good season just like liverpool and fans thought they made the big time and will watch Arsenals decline , Wenger
 has been there and done it time and time again and will do again , but like liverpool he needs to sort out the defending , cant win anything with a soft shell at the back , this world cup going on now will be won by the strongest defence , France or Belgium ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			They had one good season just like liverpool and fans thought they made the big time and will watch Arsenals decline , Wenger
 has been there and done it time and time again and will do again , but like liverpool he needs to sort out the defending , cant win anything with a soft shell at the back , this world cup going on now will be won by the strongest defence , France or Belgium ?
		
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Sorry I didn't realise next seasons results were already decided and we only had one good season.

I believe Liverpool have won more than Arsenal in the last 9'years are you going on about their "4th spot trophy" 

I would expect a lot better results from Arsenal if Wenger is that good but they don't seem to there.


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1. No one has suggested we are there and no one is getting carried away

2. Our manager is short on CL experience because he hasn't managed there yet - but I have no doubt he will work things out.

3. It's a building process for the long term which includes increased capacity for the stadium and building a young bright team for the future. If Suarez leaves then we move on spend his fee well and improve the whole squad instead of relying on one player.

4. Arsenal have had a bigger stadium for a while now and not once have taken on City and Chelsea throughout the whole season - our manager had a better PL season than Wenger has had for the last 8 seasons and expect him to build on that 

*5. Finally - his name is not Rogers - it's Rodgers.*

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Oh, the irony. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Pure genius, Phil.


*Slime*.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 2, 2014)

I'd like to see Liverpool buying some proven quality with champions league experience. 

Buying young talent is all well and good for the future but that won't help short term.


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## MadAdey (Jul 2, 2014)

The bottom line is the new season gas not started yet, so who knows what is going to happen. If Lallana hits the ground running then we may not miss Suarez that much. Also Emre Can could find his feet quickly and bring a lot to the team and we all know what Lambert is capable of with the some good service. Get the new LB he is after and a solid CB and the squad is looking good. 

How can anyone right off a team that finished 2nd, just a couple of points short of winning it. Ask the other coaches if they think Liverpool are capable of challenging again and I know what they will say. The season has not started yet and the transfer window is open.


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## One Planer (Jul 2, 2014)

be interesting to see what come out of this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28112887

They would certainly have the funds, even at a Â£60M, to buy a truly world class replacement.


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## MadAdey (Jul 2, 2014)

Gareth said:



			be interesting to see what come out of this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28112887

They would certainly have the funds, even at a Â£60M, to buy a truly world class replacement.
		
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would be happy if a deal included Sanchez. If not I would not want to see him go for less than Â£80m cash.


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## One Planer (Jul 2, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			would be happy if a deal included Sanchez. If not I would not want to see him go for less than Â£80m cash.
		
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In light of what's happened (...Again) Adey, with the chance of  it happening again, will people pay top dollar?

I'm not wanting to divert the thread this way, but it's something any potential suitors will surely be considering (... Along with his ban)


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 2, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Why are people so obsessed with hatred for Liverpool? I started this thread to chat about any transfer rumours and what people think about signings that are being made, not for people to just come on and start wumming. 

But if we are wumming then let me sum up the other teams. 

United are going out and paying over inflated prices for players and god knows what will be next.

Arsenal are probably just going to go out buy some more lightweight fancy players and forget that they need some backbone to their team. 

City, well they seem to be looking for that certain player that is going to take them that step forward, not going to be easy with how good that squad is already.

Chelsea, Costa signing and Lukaku returning should help their problems up top. No doubt Maureen has got something up his sleeve for the transfer window. He already has a pretty good squad and with a few tweeks will only get better.
		
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Hatred is a strong word. I don't hate Liverpool,but I don't particularly like them. I get fed up with people trying to make out they're a club with morals & principles. Phil Thompson is terrible for it. 
Let's be honest tho mate Liverpool fans like to give it out on here when it suits. 
It's pretty obvious why Liverpool debates end up the way they do on the forum.

Just being honest :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

I don't hate Liverpool and in fact was quite positive in other threads last season about the way they were playing. I don't understand the signing of Lallana if Suarez stays. With that Belgium lad coming too, Lallana will be even further down the order and as Man City have proved, Rogers will then have the big problem of trying to keep everyone happy and playing. I'm not a huge fan of squad rotation on a huge scale and would rather play the strongest side as often as possible. Of course it does need to happen, I accept that but sides that make 7-8 changes from game to game as United and others showed last season can lead to problems in the next game


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## c1973 (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't hate Liverpool and in fact was quite positive in other threads last season about the way they were playing. I don't understand the signing of Lallana if Suarez stays. With that Belgium lad coming too, Lallana will be even further down the order and as Man City have proved, Rogers will then have the big problem of trying to keep everyone happy and playing. I'm not a huge fan of squad rotation on a huge scale and would rather play the strongest side as often as possible. Of course it does need to happen, I accept that but sides that make 7-8 changes from game to game as United and others showed last season can lead to problems in the next game
		
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I think the Belgian lad (Ogiri ?) is going on loan in France (nice?), think LP mentioned something along those lines last night.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			5. Finally - his name is not Rogers - it's Rodgers.
		
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It's Mourinho.

It's *R*oy Hodgson.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

c1973 said:



			I think the Belgian lad (Ogiri ?) is going on loan in France (nice?), think LP mentioned something along those lines last night.
		
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I thought it was Lille but I knew he was on loan for a season. My point was, once he's back, he looks better than Lallana and I'd play him. With Sturridge, Sterling and for now Suarez, with Ogril in the pecking order, where does that leave Lallana and how does Rogers keep then all happy. If Suarez goes I can see how the situation gets easier although even if Lallana gets the striker role I don't see him getting as many per season as Suarez. Of course if Ogril signs (has he already done so?) there shouldn't be anything preventing the home club recalling a player at any point should they get injuries etc


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## Birchy (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought it was Lille but I knew he was on loan for a season. My point was, once he's back, he looks better than Lallana and I'd play him. With Sturridge, Sterling and for now Suarez, with Ogril in the pecking order, where does that leave Lallana and how does Rogers keep then all happy. If Suarez goes I can see how the situation gets easier although even if Lallana gets the striker role I don't see him getting as many per season as Suarez. Of course if Ogril signs (has he already done so?) there shouldn't be anything preventing the home club recalling a player at any point should they get injuries etc
		
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How many times have you seen Ogiri play?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought it was Lille but I knew he was on loan for a season. My point was, once he's back, he looks better than Lallana and I'd play him. With Sturridge, Sterling and for now Suarez, with Ogril in the pecking order, where does that leave Lallana and how does Rogers keep then all happy. If Suarez goes I can see how the situation gets easier although even if Lallana gets the striker role I don't see him getting as many per season as Suarez. Of course if Ogril signs (has he already done so?) there shouldn't be anything preventing the home club recalling a player at any point should they get injuries etc
		
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How many times - Lallana is not a striker !


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought it was Lille but I knew he was on loan for a season. My point was, once he's back, he looks better than Lallana and I'd play him. With Sturridge, Sterling and for now Suarez, with Ogril in the pecking order, where does that leave Lallana and how does Rogers keep then all happy. If Suarez goes I can see how the situation gets easier although even if Lallana gets the striker role I don't see him getting as many per season as Suarez. Of course if Ogril signs (has he already done so?) there shouldn't be anything preventing the home club recalling a player at any point should they get injuries etc
		
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Whilst eberyone has their opinion, are you saying that ogril, who I'll go out on a limb and say you've seen play at this World Cup only. Is better that someone who was the highest scoring midfielder from open play on the league last season? I don't see it. Only time will see, but it think a lot of people will be surprised just how good both lallana and liverppol will do. Gutted as I am they've  left, I'll be keeping an eye on pool this season and wishing them well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst eberyone has their opinion, are you saying that ogril, who I'll go out on a limb and say you've seen play at this World Cup only. Is better that someone who was the highest scoring midfielder from open play on the league last season? I don't see it. Only time will see, but it think a lot of people will be surprised just how good both lallana and liverppol will do. Gutted as I am they've  left, I'll be keeping an eye on pool this season and wishing them well.
		
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They are two very different type of players and play in different positions 

Ogril is young , raw with a lot of potential 

Lallana is cultured with a great eye for a pass 

Excited about both of their arrivals to the club and there can't be a comparison between the two


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## JCW (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many times - Lallana is not a striker !
		
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And wengers record  is better the Rogers who has won a big fat ZERO, Fact to quote an ex liverpool manager , funny you use the 9 years thing ..............makes me laugh , Liverpool style of play caught a few teams out last , it wont this year , so has the irish lad Rodges got a plan B as he aint got LS and they were nowhere till he came back . They have bought attacking players , what about the defence , its leaking goals .....................EYG


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			And wengers record  is better the Rogers who has won a big fat ZERO, Fact to quote an ex liverpool manager , funny you use the 9 years thing ..............makes me laugh , Liverpool style of play caught a few teams out last , it wont this year , so has the irish lad Rodges got a plan B as he aint got LS and they were nowhere till he came back . They have bought attacking players , what about the defence , its leaking goals .....................EYG
		
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I'm struggling to understand with Wenger being so good , Rodgers being so poor and our defence being so poor that we managed to finish so far ahead of Arsenal 

Has the window closed already ? Are all the signings done now ?


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## JCW (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm struggling to understand with Wenger being so good , Rodgers being so poor and our defence being so poor that we managed to finish so far ahead of Arsenal 

Has the window closed already ? Are all the signings done now ?
		
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Put it simple then , Rogers has won Zero compared to AW , everyone on this forum knows if we said liverpool play in red you will come back and say they play in blue and will argue that point till even the cows have gone home ................EYG


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Put it simple then , Rogers has won Zero compared to AW , everyone on this forum knows if we said liverpool play in red you will come back and say they play in blue and will argue that point till even the cows have gone home ................EYG
		
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And what exactly does Wenger have to do with who Liverpool are signing ?


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## JCW (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And what exactly does Wenger have to do with who Liverpool are signing ?
		
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I made the point he was signing forward players when he needs defenders , then all this we better then you stuff started with you , to be honest if you were in an empty room you pick someone to argue with and wont stop till you turn the light out and cant see your shadow no more ...............you win again


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

JCW said:



 

I made the point he was signing forward players when he needs defenders , then all this we better then you stuff started with you , to be honest if you were in an empty room you pick someone to argue with and wont stop till you turn the light out and cant see your shadow no more ...............you win again

Click to expand...

Actually I just said Lallana wasnt a striker - your response to that post was to drivel on about Wenger winning more than Rodgers etc etc and then you followed up with cheap digs at me "again"


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 2, 2014)

liverpoolphil said:



			actually i just said lallana was a striker - your response to that post was to drivel on about wenger winning more than rodgers etc etc and then you followed up with cheap digs at me "again"
		
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lallana is not a striker!!!!!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They are two very different type of players and play in different positions 

Ogril is young , raw with a lot of potential 

Lallana is cultured with a great eye for a pass 

Excited about both of their arrivals to the club and there can't be a comparison between the two
		
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I fully agree, I wasn't comparing them in the slightests. Pointing out hiw they couldn't be compared. Whilst ogri has looked good, so did kleberson, djembe, djemba and salif diao lol. 

Personally think he is at a stage that if you sign him he should stay and be a squad member as I'm not sure loan in French league will help stay in England at very least.


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## MadAdey (Jul 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Put it simple then , Rogers has won Zero compared to AW , everyone on this forum knows if we said liverpool play in red you will come back and say they play in blue and will argue that point till even the cows have gone home ................EYG
		
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Being such an expert with a crystal ball then I hope you have got some bets on for next year. Apparently you can predict the season ahead before the transfer window has actually closed. Let's talk Arsenal shall we, they are going to be lucky to be in the Europa League next year because they have not purchased the CB, DM and striker that they desperately need. 

Then again maybe Arsenal will win it, who knows. No ball has been kicked yet and they still have time to go out and make a couple of big signings. Maybe Benzema, Vidal and Lovren will be signed soon and then Arsenal would be a real threat for the title. Then again maybe they will not make any great signings and be scrapping for 4th place. 

Maybe Liverpool will sell Suarez, Sanchez comes in the deal, they use the rest of the money to put towards Lovren, Di Maria (Real have said they might be off loading) Khediera and Moreno. 

The only thing that can be said for certain is nobody can really guess with any certainty what will happen, well not until the transfer window closes and we see the squads that teams will have next year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I fully agree, I wasn't comparing them in the slightests. Pointing out hiw they couldn't be compared. Whilst ogri has looked good, so did kleberson, djembe, djemba and salif diao lol. 

Personally think he is at a stage that if you sign him he should stay and be a squad member as I'm not sure loan in French league will help stay in England at very least.
		
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I think allowing him to stay will seal the deal for us as opposed to his development


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 2, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Being such an expert with a crystal ball then I hope you have got some bets on for next year. Apparently you can predict the season ahead before the transfer window has actually closed. Let's talk Arsenal shall we, they are going to be lucky to be in the Europa League next year because they have not purchased the CB, DM and striker that they desperately need. 

Then again maybe Arsenal will win it, who knows. No ball has been kicked yet and they still have time to go out and make a couple of big signings. Maybe Benzema, Vidal and Lovren will be signed soon and then Arsenal would be a real threat for the title. Then again maybe they will not make any great signings and be scrapping for 4th place. 

Maybe Liverpool will sell Suarez, Sanchez comes in the deal, they use the rest of the money to put towards Lovren, Di Maria (Real have said they might be off loading) Khediera and Moreno. 

The only thing that can be said for certain is nobody can really guess with any certainty what will happen, well not until the transfer window closes and we see the squads that teams will have next year.
		
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One thing I can guarantee is that Di Maria won't be wearing a Liverpool shirt next season. 
Liverpool haven't had much competition in the transfer market for the players they've signed,think they would for Di Maria


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			One thing I can guarantee is that Di Maria won't be wearing a Liverpool shirt next season. 
Liverpool haven't had much competition in the transfer market for the players they've signed,think they would for Di Maria
		
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I think Liverpool are in a postion where they can compete with most teams. Unless players are signing based purely on funds. Without pandering to their history too much, they have undeniable prestige, the only two clubs that compete on that scale in England at least are arsenal and UTD. I think most would take Liverpool over them two.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I think Liverpool are in a postion where they can compete with most teams. Unless players are signing based purely on funds. Without pandering to their history too much, they have undeniable prestige, the only two clubs that compete on that scale in England at least are arsenal and UTD. I think most would take Liverpool over them two.
		
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Seriously mate I couldn't disagree more. I still think UTD will attract bigger players & Arsenal will because they're based n London. Like I said Liverpool are signing players that none of the other big teams are interested in. 
A Liverpool fan on here thought CL football would attract big players & make them keep big players,their Biggest player is on his way & they've signed Lambert.


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## c1973 (Jul 2, 2014)

With CL football next year and their name Liverpool might be able to compete should players like di Maria become available. Money talks though, so the Man utds/city, Chelsea etc could probably still outbid them if push came to shove. 

Mind you Dortmund or Munich would be a better draw than any of them (imo) at the moment should they enter the fray and be willing to spend.

The key is how much they are willing to spend on wages, as most players will go to the club who pay most.


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## Dodger (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I think Liverpool are in a postion where they can compete with most teams. Unless players are signing based purely on funds. Without pandering to their history too much, they have undeniable prestige, the only two clubs that compete on that scale in England at least are arsenal and UTD. I think most would take Liverpool over them two.
		
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Deluded or simply blinkered?

Both probably.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Deluded or simply blinkered?

Both probably.
		
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Neither I'm afraid, as a neutral I was not surprised to see our players leave for liverpoolnas they're an improving team. Not sure why people are so against pool. Not old.enough to rememeber their dominance but it strikes me that its the same envy that makes utd so hated.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seriously mate I couldn't disagree more. I still think UTD will attract bigger players & Arsenal will because they're based n London. Like I said Liverpool are signing players that none of the other big teams are interested in. 
A Liverpool fan on here thought CL football would attract big players & make them keep big players,their Biggest player is on his way & they've signed Lambert.
		
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To be fair mate utd couldn't hold onto Ronaldo when in a much stronger position than what pool are now. Latino players all wanna end up in Spain. Utd also missed out on fabregas twice and paidmore for a Spanish less.proven equivalent whilst Chelsea.have spent 30m on a striker after 1 good season and appear happy to get rid of lukaku who's proven.


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## guest100718 (Jul 2, 2014)

I think the key is to get the Suarez deal wrapped up ASAP and make all the funds available to rodgers. It might seem like a good idea to play hardball and screw them for an extra few mil, but if you leave it to late al a spurs and Berbatov for example, you dont end up with enough time to get new players in and settled with a decent pre season, if at all.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

I think many will look at United with the new manager even without CL football to entice. I think Liverpool will make good signings but will not attract the "big" names. I think Wenger still has a cachet around Europe and so can still entice players again though not the "big" names. City have an abundance of riches already. The one side I wonder about is Chelsea and what they will do in the summer. If Mouriniho can buy big and replace a number of key positions then they could be an interesting side to challenge next season


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think many will look at United with the new manager even without CL football to entice. I think Liverpool will make good signings but will not attract the "big" names. I think Wenger still has a cachet around Europe and so can still entice players again though not the "big" names. City have an abundance of riches already. The one side I wonder about is Chelsea and what they will do in the summer. If Mouriniho can buy big and replace a number of key positions then they could be an interesting side to challenge next season
		
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I genuinely think Chelsea will win next season. IF costa fires. They were missing one player last year (a decent stiker). What with African cup of nations coming up  city could lose if over Xmas as their or, without him last season dipped massively. Ealy days of course. But that's where I'm laying my money this season. Mourinho served me well as got place money at 16/1 last year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I genuinely think Chelsea will win next season. IF costa fires. They were missing one player last year (a decent stiker). What with African cup of nations coming up  city could lose if over Xmas as their or, without him last season dipped massively. Ealy days of course. But that's where I'm laying my money this season. Mourinho served me well as got place money at 16/1 last year.
		
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Interesting. I think Costa will either fire like Suarez did last season or he'll be like Torres and not hit a barn door. There won't be any middle ground


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## SaintHacker (Jul 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lallana is cultured with a great eye for a pass
		
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Hang on, before you signed him according to you he wasn't that great and definitely wasn't worth anywhere near what you've just paid for him. now he's your player he's suddenly cultured with an eye for a pass?:rofl:


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## guest100718 (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I genuinely think Chelsea will win next season. IF costa fires. They were missing one player last year (a decent stiker). What with African cup of nations coming up  city could lose if over Xmas as their or, without him last season dipped massively. Ealy days of course. But that's where I'm laying my money this season. Mourinho served me well as got place money at 16/1 last year.
		
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A straight fight between city and CFC probably


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## Dodger (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Neither I'm afraid, as a neutral I was not surprised to see our players leave for liverpoolnas they're an improving team. Not sure why people are so against pool. Not old.enough to rememeber their dominance but it strikes me that its the same envy that makes utd so hated.
		
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So because they dominated late 70's into the 80's that means that players will want to go there over Utd,Arsenal,City,Chelsea,Madrid,Barca,Bayern etc?

Deluded it is then.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Hang on, before you signed him according to you he wasn't that great and definitely wasn't worth anywhere near what you've just paid for him. now he's your player he's suddenly cultured with an eye for a pass?:rofl:
		
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A change of opinion... surely not. I don't see him as a wide player (ok he's not a striker) that will transform a game. I just don't


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting. I think Costa will either fire like Suarez did last season or he'll be like Torres and not hit a barn door. There won't be any middle ground
		
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I agree, and Chelsea's track record isn't great with big money strikers. I personally think drogba in as coach and Lukaku as main man. But it appears that not gonna happen.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree, and Chelsea's track record isn't great with big money strikers. I personally think drogba in as coach and Lukaku as main man. But it appears that not gonna happen.
		
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I agree. Where City have had a plethora of goalscorers and Liverpool had Suarez last year, Chelsea have seemed to be lacking that 25 goal a season player. Mind you they are thin on the ground. I still think Lukaku is a bit hit and miss


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So because they dominated late 70's into the 80's that means that players will want to go there over Utd,Arsenal,City,Chelsea,Madrid,Barca,Bayern etc?

Deluded it is then.
		
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no, my point was that they are a big name because of their history, not that players would join them for it. 
 And that the bitterness shown towards them by British fans is for the same reason most 30 year old fans have a dislike for UTD. Jealousy. Last year Liverpool were supported by a lot of neutrals, now all of a sudden nobody likes them? Why is that?

of the English teams, Chelsea and City are top based on financial reasons. And obviously offer a better chance of success currently, but if history has no basis on a player joing why would a player join arsenal over Liverpool when in the last decade Liverpool have won more?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree. Where City have had a plethora of goalscorers and Liverpool had Suarez last year, Chelsea have seemed to be lacking that 25 goal a season player. Mind you they are thin on the ground. I still think Lukaku is a bit hit and miss
		
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Id like to see Lukaku given a full season though. I agree he can be hit and miss but is still young. Look who sturridge flourished, especially early season when he was the main man. Lukaku got 15 goals last two seasons with teams who lets be fair, won't create anywhere near the chances Chelsea will.


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## MadAdey (Jul 2, 2014)

I do not think it is anything to do with being deluded. Last summer Liverpool missed on 2 potential big signings as Ericsson and Willian both chose European football over Liverpool when deals for both looked like going through, until Chelsea and Spurs came in.

Liverpool have a couple of things to offer to players. Champions league football and a squad that is not already full to the brim with international players so regular football is more certain. 

No one knows if Liverpool can repeat last season, like no one can say if City or Chelsea will win the league. I remember back in December people on here saying that Liverpool could not keep it up and would fall off the pace, I think it was the same people that saying similar things now and how wrong where they?

talk is Rogers has Â£60m to spend, so in reality he probably has upto Â£80m if the right players come along. Â£40m spent already and another Â£10m going on Origi. So Â£30m to bring in a LB & CB. If Suarez was to go that kitty would rise to around Â£100m to spend. So who the hell knows what is going to happen.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I do not think it is anything to do with being deluded. Last summer Liverpool missed on 2 potential big signings as Ericsson and Willian both chose European football over Liverpool when deals for both looked like going through, until Chelsea and Spurs came in.

Liverpool have a couple of things to offer to players. Champions league football and a squad that is not already full to the brim with international players so regular football is more certain. 

No one knows if Liverpool can repeat last season, like no one can say if City or Chelsea will win the league. I remember back in December people on here saying that Liverpool could not keep it up and would fall off the pace, I think it was the same people that saying similar things now and how wrong where they?

talk is Rogers has Â£60m to spend, so in reality he probably has upto Â£80m if the right players come along. Â£40m spent already and another Â£10m going on Origi. So Â£30m to bring in a LB & CB. If Suarez was to go that kitty would rise to around Â£100m to spend. So who the hell knows what is going to happen.
		
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out of curiosity, who would you like to come in a replace him if he as looks likely leaves. I'm talking realistic signing. A player that is a, in theory likely to leave their club, and b would consider Liverpool. By that I mean you can't just name messi as a dream signing.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			why would a player join arsenal over Liverpool when in the last decade Liverpool have won more?
		
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In the case of foreign players there would probably be three reasons;

1. It is in London
2. Consistent CL football, thereby boosting their profile to other top clubs
3. Wages. Remember these guys are professionals and despite all the guff in the papers when they sign they and their agents could not give a stuff about a club's history

Apart from 1 above the same applies to British players.

Also who, apart from the press, says they were supported last season by a lot of neutrals


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## Papas1982 (Jul 2, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			In the case of foreign players there would probably be three reasons;

1. It is in London
2. Consistent CL football, thereby boosting their profile to other top clubs
3. Wages. Remember these guys are professionals and despite all the guff in the papers when they sign they and their agents could not give a stuff about a club's history

Apart from 1 above the same applies to British players.

Also who, apart from the press, says they were supported last season by a lot of neutrals
		
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I don't personally think arsenal will pay much more than pool for top players as I'm sure suarez and Gerrard earn a 'fair' wage. I do accept the London reasoning though. Although I think that reason is often just used my players when trying to squeeze extra out of mugs such as qpr..

Tbf though arsenal don't really matter in thisndebate though as they only top player they have spent out onnhasnt exactly flourished so arsene will spend on potential again.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 2, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So because they dominated late 70's into the 80's that means that players will want to go there over Utd,Arsenal,City,Chelsea,Madrid,Barca,Bayern etc?

Deluded it is then.
		
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Do you think Rangers will compete with Celtic in the next 5 years for players?


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## MadAdey (Jul 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			out of curiosity, who would you like to come in a replace him if he as looks likely leaves. I'm talking realistic signing. A player that is a, in theory likely to leave their club, and b would consider Liverpool. By that I mean you can't just name messi as a dream signing.
		
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obvious one is Sanchez and Suarez goes to Barca then it may happen. But you can't really replace a player like that, that is the reason people are willing to pay big bucks for him. Maybe try and get Cavani, he has hinted that he is not happy in the French league, Ballotelli is another and maybe Benzema. The fee from Suarez could pay for 2 of the 4 names I have mentioned, so you are not just replacing him, you would be getting in 2 top class players.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I do not think it is anything to do with being deluded. Last summer Liverpool missed on 2 potential big signings as Ericsson and Willian both chose European football over Liverpool when deals for both looked like going through, until Chelsea and Spurs came in.

Liverpool have a couple of things to offer to players. Champions league football and a squad that is not already full to the brim with international players so regular football is more certain. 

No one knows if Liverpool can repeat last season, like no one can say if City or Chelsea will win the league. I remember back in December people on here saying that Liverpool could not keep it up and would fall off the pace, I think it was the same people that saying similar things now and how wrong where they?

talk is Rogers has Â£60m to spend, so in reality he probably has upto Â£80m if the right players come along. Â£40m spent already and another Â£10m going on Origi. So Â£30m to bring in a LB & CB. If Suarez was to go that kitty would rise to around Â£100m to spend. So who the hell knows what is going to happen.
		
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Liverpool lost out to Spurs (not Chelsea)for Willian,Spurs lost out to Chelsea for him. 
I'm not sure Europa football is such a big lure for big players.


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## MadAdey (Jul 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Liverpool lost out to Spurs (not Chelsea)for Willian,Spurs lost out to Chelsea for him. 
I'm not sure Europa football is such a big lure for big players.
		
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?????????? So Spurs and Liverpool lost out to Chelsea then, who was in the CL. Liverpool did not loose out to Spurs as they did not sign him


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Hang on, before you signed him according to you he wasn't that great and definitely wasn't worth anywhere near what you've just paid for him. now he's your player he's suddenly cultured with an eye for a pass?:rofl:
		
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He isn't a "great" player nor is he worth Â£25mil - but that doesn't stop him being cultured with an eye for a pass. 


Anyway it looks like we want two from 

Markovic 
Shaqiri
Sanchez

The first two appear are willing to come , Sanchez at the moment prefers either Italy or London so will need a bit of persuading

Markovic is a very talented winger with a great deal of pace and trickery but still very raw 

My preferred two would be Sanchez and Shaqiri but wouldn't be too disappointed with Markovic instead of Sanchez

Lovren I think will be the CB to arrive and then it will be which fullback we get - not impressed with names like Bertrand being floated around


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 3, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			?????????? So Spurs and Liverpool lost out to Chelsea then, who was in the CL. Liverpool did not loose out to Spurs as they did not sign him
		
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Nope,he chose Spurs over Liverpool & then Chelsea came in at the last minute signed him.


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## MadAdey (Jul 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He isn't a "great" player nor is he worth Â£25mil - but that doesn't stop him being cultured with an eye for a pass.
		
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i am with you on that, I thought Â£20m would be top end for him. But he has got some good qualities that hopefully will shine through.





Liverpoolphil said:



			Anyway it looks like we want two from 

Markovic 
Shaqiri
Sanchez

The first two appear are willing to come , Sanchez at the moment prefers either Italy or London so will need a bit of persuading

Markovic is a very talented winger with a great deal of pace and trickery but still very raw 

My preferred two would be Sanchez and Shaqiri but wouldn't be too disappointed with Markovic instead of Sanchez

Lovren I think will be the CB to arrive and then it will be which fullback we get - not impressed with names like Bertrand being floated around
		
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I think it will only be one from 3. Lambert, Lallana, Can and the pending signing of Origi is already going to cost around Â£50m. With Lovren still on Rogers radar that will take speeding over Â£60m, maybe leaving enough to sign one more. Those players you mentioned will probably cost around Â£20m for Shaqiri/Markovic and probably pushing Â£40m for Sanchez. So maybe Sanchez is out of reach, but one of the other hand Shaqiri or Markovic will happen I think.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			i am with you on that, I thought Â£20m would be top end for him. But he has got some good qualities that hopefully will shine through.





I think it will only be one from 3. Lambert, Lallana, Can and the pending signing of Origi is already going to cost around Â£50m. With Lovren still on Rogers radar that will take speeding over Â£60m, maybe leaving enough to sign one more. Those players you mentioned will probably cost around Â£20m for Shaqiri/Markovic and probably pushing Â£40m for Sanchez. So maybe Sanchez is out of reach, but one of the other hand Shaqiri or Markovic will happen I think.
		
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Add the Â£75mil we will get from Suarez and that gives us the budget to get two of them 

The owners have always said that money would be available to spend once we get CL - the Â£30-40mil is being spent and add on the Â£75mil and you can see us affording the players to fill that gap and despite losing one of the best in the world our options become a bit stronger 

A front three from 

Sterling 
Sturridge
Lallana
Markovic
Sanchez/Shaqiri

Isn't bad to look at as long as they gel which I have full confidence in BR for. 

Could be exciting times ahead


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you think Rangers will compete with Celtic in the next 5 years for players?
		
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They may if,and it is a big if,they can get their house in order.

At the moment they can't and no club in Scotland can.

It also depends on how we do in the next 2/3 years CL. If we can qualify then no unless they get investment.If we bumble along as now making group stages 2 times out of the next 4 years say then the gap will be less for them and they will be able to attract the odd player who we may have fancied.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 3, 2014)

Liverpool still look short of top quality defenders and depth in those positions. With Gerrard coming towards the end of a decent career, the need for a goalscoring midfielder with all his other qualities would seem to be a requirement in due course. No doubt they have the potential to be up there again but defensively they need to be a lot tighter


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## Slime (Jul 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			To be fair mate utd couldn't hold onto Ronaldo when in a much stronger position than what pool are now. Latino players all wanna end up in Spain. *Utd also missed out on fabregas twice* and paidmore for a Spanish less.proven equivalent whilst Chelsea.have spent 30m on a striker after 1 good season and appear happy to get rid of lukaku who's proven.
		
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They didn't really 'miss out' on him as he never really wanted to go to Manchester in the first place. He always preffered London.



Pin-seeker said:



			Nope,he chose Spurs over Liverpool & then Chelsea came in at the last minute signed him.
		
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To be fair, he chose *money* over Liverpool and then chose *more money* over Spurs!


*Slime*.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jul 3, 2014)

With losing Suarez and Gerrard clearly not the player he was, I can't see Liverpool doing as well this coming season.The two Southampton players aren't good enough imo...the lad Lallana is heavily over rated imo.

Expect the top 4 to be the 'normal' lot next year.


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## gmc40 (Jul 3, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			With losing Suarez and Gerrard clearly not the player he was, I can't see Liverpool doing as well this coming season.The two Southampton players aren't good enough imo...the lad Lallana is heavily over rated imo.

Expect the top 4 to be the 'normal' lot next year.
		
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I don't know why you say Gerrard clearly isn't the player he was? I assume you mean compared to last season? If so how do you know? Can't be based on the World Cup, almost all of them were


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## Scotty_Tom (Jul 3, 2014)

Love when silly season comes around and people are experts on what clubs have to spend! who knows what we have to spend?! how can anyone say that with what we spent already we could only sign one of 2/3 players more?!


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## Adi2Dassler (Jul 3, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			I don't know why you say Gerrard clearly isn't the player he was? I assume you mean compared to last season? If so how do you know? Can't be based on the World Cup, almost all of them were .
		
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More to do with him getting on in age I suppose.He can't be as good this season as last.Or the year before.Isn't he injury prone nowadays too?Lovely footballer, though.


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## One Planer (Jul 3, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



*More to do with him getting on in age I suppose*.He can't be as good this season as last.Or the year before.Isn't he injury prone nowadays too?Lovely footballer, though.
		
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Tell that to Pirlo 


Edit: ... Or Giggs


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## Crazyface (Jul 3, 2014)

As you discuss all of this, just think on. I have been told that none of these footballers give a stuff about who they play for, the history of the clubs or the fans of the clubs. ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THEMSELVES AND MONEY, the South Americans being the worst apparently, a la Suarez. So, if you also don't care, and are happy with your club throwing your money to other foreign countries for players who don't give a stuff for you or your beloved club, go on discussing and arguing about it all. My suggestion would be to not buy your season ticket / Sky sport subs for next year, let the lot go to hell and let football come back to reality and the fans. 
Yeah, I know, this will not happen. My tiny club will go to the wall and no one will care, and the local quaint houses in the village will continue to be demolished and new massive ones put in their place. Ahh well, only a few more games to watch in this WC and I'm done with football.


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## Adi2Dassler (Jul 3, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Tell that to Pirlo 


Edit: ... Or Giggs 

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Pirlo wanders about Serie A pitches occasionally breaking into a mild jog, Giggs is a freak of nature never to be seen again.Stevie Gs legs are going imo.


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## richy (Jul 3, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Liverpool still look short of top quality defenders and depth in those positions. With Gerrard coming towards the end of a decent career, the need for a goalscoring midfielder with all his other qualities would seem to be a requirement in due course. No doubt they have the potential to be up there again but defensively they need to be a lot tighter
		
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Wasn't Llallana the highest scoring English midfielder last season with 9 goals? Which is about what Gerrard normally averages.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 3, 2014)

Plenty of life left in Gerrard - with Lucas and now Emre Can at the club he can gently guided through the season - won't see him ever present this year.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2014)

Dodger said:



			They may if,and it is a big if,they can get their house in order.

At the moment they can't and no club in Scotland can.

It also depends on how we do in the next 2/3 years CL. If we can qualify then no unless they get investment.If we bumble along as now making group stages 2 times out of the next 4 years say then the gap will be less for them and they will be able to attract the odd player who we may have fancied.
		
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Fair assessment, but why would someone choose a club who hasn't been in the top league for 3+ years, and not CL for longer over Celtic?

Wages (if they offer more), big crowds then.................history, prestige?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2014)

I have it on good authority that we will go for Pogba.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2014)

Well the sun in the sky said we already have (LA)llana, (LA)mbert, so why not (PO)gba?

Coat is on.


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Fair assessment, but why would someone choose a club who hasn't been in the top league for 3+ years, and not CL for longer over Celtic?

Wages (if they offer more), big crowds then.................history, prestige?
		
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Cash.Look at what is happening with that lot at the moment.Players signing for them that could easily play for Motherwell,Aberdeen etc but are being wafted the golden signs in front of them.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 3, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Cash.Look at what is happening with that lot at the moment.Players signing for them that could easily play for Motherwell,Aberdeen etc but are being wafted the golden signs in front of them.
		
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Yes, but also to play for the mighty "Rangers", you can tell your grandkids about.


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## c1973 (Jul 3, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but also to play for the mighty "Rangers", you can tell your grandkids about.
		
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Ffs don't get him started on Rangers! Please!!


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## Dodger (Jul 3, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Yes, but also to play for the sh#ghty "Rangers", you can tell your grandkids about.
		
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Fixed.

There is only one show in Glasgow and it's Green and White.:smirk:


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## SaintHacker (Jul 4, 2014)

Well looks like we're not letting Lovren go without a fight. Reports are that Liverpool have offered Â£18m, we have said we won't even discuss it for less than Â£25m.

Serious question to the Liverpool fans on here. You've spent a hell of a lot of money already this summer. OK you're probably going to get a good chunk back for Suarez but we don't know how much of that is tied up in sell on fees etc. It wasn't that long ago people were talking about financial trouble at Anfield. Are any of you a bit worried by all this spending?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 4, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Well looks like we're not letting Lovren go without a fight. Reports are that Liverpool have offered Â£18m, we have said we won't even discuss it for less than Â£25m.

Serious question to the Liverpool fans on here. You've spent a hell of a lot of money already this summer. OK you're probably going to get a good chunk back for Suarez but we don't know how much of that is tied up in sell on fees etc. It wasn't that long ago people were talking about financial trouble at Anfield. Are any of you a bit worried by all this spending?
		
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No that was different "owners". The ground should be getting extended to 58K in the coming years also.

Remember, there is massive improvements in TV money last year. We were normally spending about 30 mill a year nett 2-3 years ago. Should be more anyway, more TV money, CL league money extra on last year possibly worth 30-70 mill depending on how we do. We may also have a big chunk of money coming in for the TV rights of Jaws (IV).


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## SaintHacker (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			No that was different "owners".
		
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Ah right, didn't know that.



Liverbirdie said:



			We may also have a big chunk of money coming in for the TV rights of Jaws (IV).
		
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:rofl:


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I have it on good authority that we will go for Pogba.
		
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united reject!


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 4, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			united reject! 

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'ello, 'ello - like Peter Beardsley - ouch.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			'ello, 'ello - like Peter Beardsley - ouch.
		
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:ears:

We did keep Scott mcgarvey instead mind.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 5, 2014)

Any truth in the story that Liverpool will be re-named New Southampton?


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## richy (Jul 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought it was Lille but I knew he was on loan for a season. My point was, once he's back, he looks better than Lallana and I'd play him. With Sturridge, Sterling and for now Suarez, with Ogril in the pecking order, where does that leave Lallana and how does Rogers keep then all happy. If Suarez goes I can see how the situation gets easier although even if Lallana gets the striker role I don't see him getting as many per season as Suarez. Of course if Ogril signs (has he already done so?) there shouldn't be anything preventing the home club recalling a player at any point should they get injuries etc
		
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Birchy said:



			How many times have you seen Ogiri play?
		
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Obviously none. He's been terrible this first half


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## SaintHacker (Jul 5, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Any truth in the story that Liverpool will be re-named New Southampton?
		
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Well they've got a new badge


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 6, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Well they've got a new badge 

View attachment 11363

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The papers have been full of transfers out of Saints, any exciting moves potentially coming in?

You should have plenty of cash to work with.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			The papers have been full of transfers out of Saints, any exciting moves potentially coming in?

You should have plenty of cash to work with.
		
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It appears Lovren isn't best pleased with Soton

Wants to leave because they are selling their best players and not happy the club turned down the bid from Liverpool and didn't speak to him about it. 

Looks like Lovren will be joining soon then


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It appears Lovren isn't best pleased with Soton

Wants to leave because they are selling their best players and not happy the club turned down the bid from Liverpool and didn't speak to him about it. 

Looks like Lovren will be joining soon then
		
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Â£25m and he's yours. We may be a selling club, but we sell for the price we want it appears.

id imagine cl footy and much bigger wages will also be far more tempting than the fact we've sold some stars.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Â£25m and he's yours. We may be a selling club, but we sell for the price we want it appears.

id imagine cl footy and much bigger wages will also be far more tempting than the fact we've sold some stars.
		
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Expect somewhere between Â£17mil and Â£20mil plus add ons and you have doubled your money.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Expect somewhere between Â£17mil and Â£20mil plus add ons and you have doubled your money.
		
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Rumours are we have rejected the original Â£18m. I'd still expect nearer Â£25m. Is he worth it? Similar to our recent sales he's worth what someone will pay, but I think it'll be Â£20m plus. Now just need to spend some money ourselves!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Rumours are we have rejected the original Â£18m. I'd still expect nearer Â£25m. Is he worth it? Similar to our recent sales he's worth what someone will pay, but I think it'll be Â£20m plus. Now just need to spend some money ourselves!
		
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Suggestions that the original bid was closer to the Â£15mil mark - would be very surprised if a bid of over Â£20mil happened.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Suggestions that the original bid was closer to the Â£15mil mark - would be very surprised if a bid of over Â£20mil happened.
		
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The press release from Lovren said â‚¬25. If Â£20m doesn't happen then I don't think we will sell. With got what we wanted so far.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			The press release from Lovren said â‚¬25. If Â£20m doesn't happen then I don't think we will sell. With got what we wanted so far.
		
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But so far the transfers have been uncomplicated - the Lovren one may well end up with a transfer request which will muddy the waters a little possibly


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But so far the transfers have been uncomplicated - the Lovren one may well end up with a transfer request which will muddy the waters a little possibly
		
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Lallana was no angel either. Refused to go back by all accounts. Obviously players let things 'slip' when in their home countries to help with rumours. If he requests a transfer then he loses out on loyalty bonus of approx 10% so I guess Â£18m would cut it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Lallana was no angel either. Refused to go back by all accounts. Obviously players let things 'slip' when in their home countries to help with rumours. If he requests a transfer then he loses out on loyalty bonus of approx 10% so I guess Â£18m would cut it.
		
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And then we pay the Â£2mil to him as a sign on fee.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And then we pay the Â£2mil to him as a sign on fee.
		
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Maybe, but i'm sure Lallana, Lambert and Shaw have all got them too. Either way, if we make Â£20m on him i think it's too much to resist. Same for Schneiderlin.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe, but i'm sure Lallana, Lambert and Shaw have all got them too. Either way, if we make Â£20m on him i think it's too much to resist. Same for Schneiderlin.
		
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They all get signing on fees but players that put transfer requests get a little bit more added on to make up for the loss of transfer bonus etc


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They all get signing on fees but players that put transfer requests get a little bit more added on to make up for the loss of transfer bonus etc
		
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I'm sure clubs won't release the figures so will never know. All i'm saying is i reckon the others would have made more with combined signing and loyalty bonus. That said, they're not really gonna miss it either way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm sure clubs won't release the figures so will never know. All i'm saying is i reckon the others would have made more with combined signing and loyalty bonus. That said, they're not really gonna miss it either way.
		
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You hear of some refusing to put requests in to ensure they get a loyalty bonus ? How can it be a loyalty bonus when they clearly want to leave - not many players are not looking for more money


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You hear of some refusing to put requests in to ensure they get a loyalty bonus ? How can it be a loyalty bonus when they clearly want to leave - not many players are not looking for more money
		
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Agreed, i think they first came in for smaller clubs who couldn't afford such high wages but let players know hey'd have a pay off at end of time a club as a sweetener. I personally wish we could of kept him, but was surprised when we sined him in the first place tbh. He's clearly a cl defender.


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## MadAdey (Jul 6, 2014)

Lovren is defiantly a player I would like to see at Liverpool next year. I think he sounds a bit pissed off at Southampton as he saw them as a team with good players, a good coach and some ambition. Now they have lost their manager and some of their top players, he is seeing them as a team going nowhere. From what I have read he is also annoyed the they have not said anything to him regarding the offers they have received.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Lovren is defiantly a player I would like to see at Liverpool next year. I think he sounds a bit pissed off at Southampton as he saw them as a team with good players, a good coach and some ambition. Now they have lost their manager and some of their top players, he is seeing them as a team going nowhere. From what I have read he is also annoyed the they have not said anything to him regarding the offers they have received.
		
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I think he's milking that tbh. If he did any research he's of known we'd been in prem for one season when he joined. He wants to leave for champions league and thats fair enough, but all this lack ambition etc, im sure if he'd been the first player liverpool went for he'd of said it was a dream move, liverpool are a great club, all players want cl footy etc etc.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Lovren is defiantly a player I would like to see at Liverpool next year. I think he sounds a bit pissed off at Southampton as he saw them as a team with good players, a good coach and some ambition. Now they have lost their manager and some of their top players, he is seeing them as a team going nowhere. From what I have read he is also annoyed the they have not said anything to him regarding the offers they have received.
		
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But leaving a team going no where & joining Liverpool,seriously what can he expect to win?? League cup at best. 
Serious comment so please don't take it the wrong way.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But leaving a team going no where & joining Liverpool,seriously what can he expect to win?? League cup at best. 
Serious comment so please don't take it the wrong way.
		
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What are Southampton going to do with all this money. No activity in the market yet and still more players going. What can he expect to win at Liverpool....there's a question. Not the CL, and not the PL. Definitely chances in the cups though. If Lovren comes in, is he really better than what Liverpool already have


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What are Southampton going to do with all this money. No activity in the market yet and still more players going. What can he expect to win at Liverpool....there's a question. *Not the CL, and not the PL*. Definitely chances in the cups though. If Lovren comes in, is he really better than what Liverpool already have
		
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Trophies been handed out already ?

Have won the CL before when no one expected us to win it and no one expected us to challenge for the prem last season and we did - the season hasnt even started yet.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What are Southampton going to do with all this money. No activity in the market yet and still more players going. What can he expect to win at Liverpool....there's a question. Not the CL, and not the PL. Definitely chances in the cups though. If Lovren comes in, is he really better than what Liverpool already have
		
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Like I said .. League cup at best.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Trophies been handed out already ?

Have won the CL before when no one expected us to win it and no one expected us to challenge for the prem last season and we did - the season hasnt even started yet.
		
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Â£20 to a charity of the winners choice that Liverpool don't win the Premier league or Champions league in the next 2 seasons???


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## MadAdey (Jul 6, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But leaving a team going no where & joining Liverpool,seriously what can he expect to win?? League cup at best. 
Serious comment so please don't take it the wrong way.
		
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I wouldn't be so confident about that if I was you. Suarez is a loss, but Lallana, Can, lambert, Lovren, possibly Huntelaar, Shaqiri and something in the region of Â£40m left to spend says that Liverpool are going to be a better all round team with more options next year IMO. 

People last said last year that they needed to improve the defence and strengthen the squad with more options and they are going to do that. Untied need to replace most of their team and arsenal need so decent investment so I think Liverpool are still ahead of them at the minute. All Chelsea have done is purchased a striker, lost a LB and sold a CB, so not too sure if they are looking stronger as it stands.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 6, 2014)

I'm very concerned with Liverpool's signings upto now.

I don't see the great need for a new CB and certainly not Â£20m Lovren Â£12m at best.

We've seen Lallana,Can and Lambert being signed, most of the other "speculation" of our targets none of them seem to be World Class which is what we need right now.

We need to improve the squad with world class players not decent "potential".


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Trophies been handed out already ?

Have won the CL before when no one expected us to win it and no one expected us to challenge for the prem last season and we did - the season hasnt even started yet.
		
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Â£50 to H4H that they don't win either


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Â£50 to H4H that they don't win either
		
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Where in my post did i state that we will win either - im just not going to write off our chances before a ball is even kicked just yet.

So no i wont take your bet Homer


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 6, 2014)

Well and truly barmy!

Statements that teams will not win anything before a ball is kicked and before squads have been finalised.

Some folks must have crystal balls!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Well and truly barmy!

Statements that teams will not win anything before a ball is kicked and before squads have been finalised.

Some folks must have crystal balls!
		
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Nope just opinions.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Nope just opinions.
		
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True and my opinion of these statements remains unchanged.


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## freddielong (Jul 6, 2014)

I love how us buying Sanchez will give Barca the money to by the biter


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## SaintHacker (Jul 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			From what I have read he is also annoyed the they have not said anything to him regarding the offers they have received.
		
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Why the hell should they? He's contracted to play for Southampton, end of. Its up to his employers if they choose to let him go or honour that contract.
His comments today have upset an awful lot of people, and from what I hear the board are also very unhappy. Reports are they are asking Â£25m for him, any less and he will be going nowhere and may just have to train with the reserves. I hope its true, its about time someone stood up to a player trying to force a move in an underhand way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I love how us buying Sanchez will give Barca the money to by the biter
		
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Has Sanchez been purchased yet ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Why the hell should they? He's contracted to play for Southampton, end of. Its up to his employers if they choose to let him go or honour that contract.
His comments today have upset an awful lot of people, and from what I hear the board are also very unhappy. Reports are they are asking Â£25m for him, any less and he will be going nowhere and may just have to train with the reserves. I hope its true, its about time someone stood up to a player trying to force a move in an underhand way.
		
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The problem is standing up to the player ends up costing the club more than it costs the player. Thats why clubs feels so powerless a lot of the time


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I wouldn't be so confident about that if I was you. Suarez is a loss, but Lallana, Can, lambert, Lovren, possibly Huntelaar, Shaqiri and something in the region of Â£40m left to spend says that Liverpool are going to be a better all round team with more options next year IMO. 

People last said last year that they needed to improve the defence and strengthen the squad with more options and they are going to do that. Untied need to replace most of their team and arsenal need so decent investment so I think Liverpool are still ahead of them at the minute. All Chelsea have done is purchased a striker, lost a LB and sold a CB, so not too sure if they are looking stronger as it stands.
		
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Utd will finish above Liverpool.


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## MadAdey (Jul 6, 2014)

This all comes down to football fans and their crystal balls again. Last summer people said Liverpool would be lucky to get CL, then it was they could not keep it up and be there at the end of the season with a chance of winning the PL. We'll people proved wrong on both accounts. United finished miles behind Liverpool last year and now need a complete new defence along with some midfielders. Liverpool are already improving their squad all united have done is blow Â£30m on a LB. As it stands, how the hell can anyone say that united will defiantly finish above Liverpool.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Looks like Lazar Markovic is on his way now after Origli - Markovic is very highly rated - excited about his signing 

CB , LB and one of Sanchez or Shaqiri left to arrive hopefully 

Should be a cracking squad for next season


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## freddielong (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Has Sanchez been purchased yet ?
		
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Yes I believe Sanchez is now an Arsenal player


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Yes I believe Sanchez is now an Arsenal player
		
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I believe you are possibly mistaken - believe he has offers from three clubs including Arsenal - Juve and Liverpool the other two. 

Fees agreed with Liverpool and Arsenal but no talks yet as Sanchez waiting for Juve - believe Juve would be favourites and we are dark horses. 

So what makes you believe he is an Arsenal player right now


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 6, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But leaving a team going no where & joining Liverpool,seriously what can he expect to win?? League cup at best. 
Serious comment so please don't take it the wrong way.
		
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People said that in 2005.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 6, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Why the hell should they? He's contracted to play for Southampton, end of. Its up to his employers if they choose to let him go or honour that contract.
His comments today have upset an awful lot of people, and from what I hear the board are also very unhappy. Reports are they are asking Â£25m for him, any less and he will be going nowhere and may just have to train with the reserves. I hope its true, its about time someone stood up to a player trying to force a move in an underhand way.
		
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Totally agree with that, players have too much power.


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## MadAdey (Jul 6, 2014)

Forget Sanchez, he can't make his mind up and has made it clear he prefers Arsenal over Liverpool. I do not want him if the only way we can get him is by putting a big pay cheque in his pocket. To me Sanchez is saying to Liverpool to make him a stupid offer he can't refuse, or he will go to Arsenal. 

For what he will probably cost we could use that money towards getting Markovic, Lovren and Shaqiri, so would prefer those 3 because at least they are showing an interest in wanting to come to Anfield. I would imagine those 3 combined would be around the Â£60m mark, I can see Sanchez costing around Â£40m on his own.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I wouldn't be so confident about that if I was you. Suarez is a loss, but Lallana, Can, lambert, Lovren, possibly Huntelaar, Shaqiri and something in the region of Â£40m left to spend says that Liverpool are going to be a better all round team with more options next year IMO. 

People last said last year that they needed to improve the defence and strengthen the squad with more options and they are going to do that. Untied need to replace most of their team and arsenal need so decent investment so I think Liverpool are still ahead of them at the minute. All Chelsea have done is purchased a striker, lost a LB and sold a CB, so not too sure if they are looking stronger as it stands.
		
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Arsenal maybe your competition, but Chelsea have sold a lb they hardly played and cb who gets trashed on here. Hardly a loss. If costa scores 30 goals next season they win the league. That's what they missed last season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Arsenal maybe your competition, but Chelsea have sold a lb they hardly played and cb who gets trashed on here. Hardly a loss. *If costa scores 30 goals next season they win the league*. That's what they missed last season.
		
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Thats a big if - he has only managed that once in his career - is Costa a one season wonder or the real deal ?

Watching him i cant see him scoring 20 in the prem


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## MadAdey (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Arsenal maybe your competition, but Chelsea have sold a lb they hardly played and cb who gets trashed on here. Hardly a loss. If costa scores 30 goals next season they win the league. That's what they missed last season.
		
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I'm not saying he can't, but if he doesn't, then are Chelsea putting all there eggs in one basket? He wouldn't be the first striker to come from Spain and misfire in the EPL. What about these 2....

Negredo - 25 in 36 in his last Spanish season, then gets 9 in 32 over here. So he went from 1 every 1.4 games to 1 every 3.6 games.
Saldado - 24 in 35 in his last Spanish season, then gets 6 in 28 over here. So he went from 1 every 1.5 games to 1 every 4.6 games.

So both players where prolific goal scores in Spain before moving here, so you can't rely on Costa coming and tearing up the goal scoring record charts. But on the other hand Torres and Aguero were instant successes after coming here so who knows.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I do not want him if the only way we can get him is by putting a big pay cheque in his pocket. .
		
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But, Lambert aside, thats the only reason any other player you sign or have signed are there. do you really believe if Man U or Chelsea had come in with a better offer for Lallana he would have taken less money to go to you? They're all mercenaries.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thats a big if - he has only managed that once in his career - is Costa a one season wonder or the real deal ?

Watching him i cant see him scoring 20 in the prem
		
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He may well be, although not all players are prolific whole careers. Same could be said for sturridge after one great season, or Rodriguez for saints improving dramatically one season. 

Have you only watched him for Spain, or couple a handful of la liga games as he's been superb there. There are no guarantees especially with Chelsea strikers. But I still fancy Chelsea to be top 2. Top if he fires.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I'm not saying he can't, but if he doesn't, then are Chelsea putting all there eggs in one basket? He wouldn't be the first striker to come from Spain and misfire in the EPL. What about these 2....

Negredo - 25 in 36 in his last Spanish season, then gets 9 in 32 over here. So he went from 1 every 1.4 games to 1 every 3.6 games.
Saldado - 24 in 35 in his last Spanish season, then gets 6 in 28 over here. So he went from 1 every 1.5 games to 1 every 4.6 games.

So both players where prolific goal scores in Spain before moving here, so you can't rely on Costa coming and tearing up the goal scoring record charts. But on the other hand Torres and Aguero were instant successes after coming here so who knows.
		
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yeah there'll be examples both ways. 

Re eggs in one basket, if they'd gone the city route and bought for 30m strikers they'd of been slaughtered for it. 
Pas I said if he fires they'll win league IMO, if he flops I still reckon second as I don't think UTD will increase enough to challenge arsenal and Liverpool for fourth. Liverpool may well be buying well, but atm it has a look of spurs to it. Sell a star for Â£70-Â£80m then replace with lots of good potential but if you don't as looks likely get Sanchez, where's the star player that all teams have?


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I believe you are possibly mistaken - believe he has offers from three clubs including Arsenal - Juve and Liverpool the other two. 

Fees agreed with Liverpool and Arsenal but no talks yet as Sanchez waiting for Juve - believe Juve would be favourites and we are dark horses. 

So what makes you believe he is an Arsenal player right now
		
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I don't the right people have been saying the right things he along with 2 further signings will be announced on the 10th we will see who is correct


Do Liverpool remind anyone of Spurs last season.      Just saying.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I don't the right people have been saying the right things he along with 2 further signings will be announced on the 10th we will see who is correct


*Do Liverpool remind anyone of Spurs last season*.      Just saying.
		
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I said the same lol. I think they're in a better position than spurs as they're not so much a one man team although he was still key. I also think they have a football style where people will fit into it easier, but Lovren aside it does seem they're chasing a lot of similar style players. But they do need to add to squad as they're thin on the bench.


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

All filler no killer lol


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			All filler no killer lol
		
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I've said before,they're signing players that no one else is really interested in And can't seem to attract players like Sanchez.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 7, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I've said before,they're signing players that no one else is really interested in And can't seem to attract players like Sanchez.
		
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Because we don't have unlimited wealth, and need to buy 5-6 new players. We are still shopping in tier 2 of available players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			All filler no killer lol
		
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Coming from an Arsenal fan that's quite amusing ?! How much was Ozil again ?


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Coming from an Arsenal fan that's quite amusing ?! How much was Ozil again ?
		
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Ã–zil is worth twice what we paid for him 

We will get Sanchez for more or less the same as you paid for lallana

Just let that sink in a minute


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Coming from an Arsenal fan that's quite amusing ?! How much was Ozil again ?
		
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And how much did carrol cost? All clubs overspend at sime point so referencing one signing to prove an apparent point is mute imo. 

Although just seen Freddies response. Ozil worth Â£80M? On what planet?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			We will get Sanchez for more or less the same as you paid for lallana
		
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Wasn't that Â£25 million I heard quoted? And hasn't Sanchez been quoted so far as being sold for approx Â£40million? My figures must be out I assume, as that isn't anywhere near "the same". And bear in mind Lallanas price was inflated by 33% due to the clause payable to Bournemouth (thanks liverpool!)


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

Rumours are the Ashely Cole is to sign a Â£1.8m a year two year deal at Roma. Can't belive Liverpool not gone in for him, those wages are peanuts in today's market.


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			And how much did carrol cost? All clubs overspend at sime point so referencing one signing to prove an apparent point is mute imo. 

Although just seen Freddies response. Ozil worth Â£80M? On what planet?
		
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Ã–zil has suffered last season and the world cup from a lack of pace and quality in the forwards ahead of him he still has the most completed passes in the final third and is involved more than any other player. 

I wouldn't swap him for anyone.


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Rumours are the Ashely Cole is to sign a Â£1.8m a year two year deal at Roma. Can't belive Liverpool not gone in for him, those wages are peanuts in today's market.
		
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No longer a rumor this has been confirmed by Roma


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			And how much did carrol cost? All clubs overspend at sime point so referencing one signing to prove an apparent point is mute imo. 

Although just seen Freddies response. Ozil worth Â£80M? On what planet?
		
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Planet bugeye - as a model.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2014)

@FootyHumour: Arsenal fans - Germany
Manchester United fans - Holland
Chelsea fans - Brazil
Manchester City fans - Argentina
Liverpool fans - Southampton


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Ã–zil has suffered last season and the world cup from a lack of pace and quality in the forwards ahead of him he still has the most completed passes in the final third and is involved more than any other player. 

I wouldn't swap him for anyone.
		
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Surely a player you're implying is worth 80M should be able to adapt his game? He started well enough with arsenal. Maybe it's that he's no longer in a team with Ronaldo scoring every game.


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## MadAdey (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Because we don't have unlimited wealth, and need to buy 5-6 new players. We are still shopping in tier 2 of available players.
		
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exactly. If you look at the squad last year there wasn't any options on the bench at times to come on and change a game. Rogers knows this has to change next year, especially with CL football to play. With Suarez gone we needed to bolster the attacking areas with 3/4 players and with Markovic looking like signing in the next couple of dryas it has been done. Now to turn our attention to getting a DM, CB and LB then the squad will be looking better than the one that won the CL and consistently if shed top 4 a few years ago.


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## MadAdey (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Ã–zil is worth twice what we paid for him
		
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priceless quote, you are on the wind up aren't you..........lol


freddielong said:



			We will get Sanchez for more or less the same as you paid for lallana

Just let that sink in a minute
		
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if Sanchez is available at Â£25m then everyone would be after him, you will be looking at least Â£40m


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 7, 2014)

Surely Liverpool should be in Pole position to sign Sanchez. CL football & a big Cheque from Barca


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			priceless quote, you are on the wind up aren't you..........lol


if Sanchez is available at Â£25m then everyone would be after him, you will be looking at least Â£40m
		
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Serious about Ã–zil he is my favorite player he is involved in everything good Arsenal do Arsenal are getting Sanchez at 32 mil with add ons. 

Barcelona are already selling Suarez shirts no 9 the number vacated by Arsenals new signing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Serious about Ã–zil he is my favorite player he is involved in everything good Arsenal do Arsenal are getting Sanchez at 32 mil with add ons. 

Barcelona are already selling Suarez shirts no 9 the number vacated by Arsenals new signing.
		
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Do Ozil worth double what you paid ?!? :rofl:

Did you not see how poor he was last year ? 

I'm sure you can show us the report that shows the Arsenal signing being confirmed ?


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do Ozil worth double what you paid ?!? :rofl:

Did you not see how poor he was last year ? 

I'm sure you can show us the report that shows the Arsenal signing being confirmed ?
		
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Oh well it all down to taste I suppose I think he is 

I can't show you a report but we will see who is right I can show you a pic of shirts for sale with the name of your best player on the back with the numher of the player vacated by the player Arsenal have just bought to help Barca fund. 

You should have plenty of players next season and you should'nt have to worry about Barca wanting any of them


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## JCW (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do Ozil worth double what you paid ?!? :rofl:

Did you not see how poor he was last year ? 

I'm sure you can show us the report that shows the Arsenal signing being confirmed ?
		
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Once Ls is gone from Liverpool he be better then anythink you got , class player and missed the likes of Walcott and the ox making runs as Giroud has no pace , but the new boy Sanchez will have , he aint going to Liverpool as Arsenal are a bigger club with money to burn as a club never mind tapping up S Kronke or the Russian for spends , anyway he prefers London ......................EYG


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

JCW said:



			Once Ls is gone from Liverpool he be better then anythink you got , class player and missed the likes of Walcott and the ox making runs as Giroud has no pace , but the new boy Sanchez will have , he aint going to Liverpool as Arsenal are a bigger club with money to burn as a club never mind tapping up S Kronke or the Russian for spends , anyway he prefers London ......................EYG
		
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Ozil fell away as soon as Ramsey wasn't there to do his running.  Arsenal are probably the best football business in the top four.  Not sure they're bigger than Liverpool.  London is the big pull though,  would be interesting to see who branches would have chosen if Chelsea were involved


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## G1BB0 (Jul 7, 2014)

JCW said:



			Once Ls is gone from Liverpool he be better then anythink you got , class player and missed the likes of Walcott and the ox making runs as Giroud has no pace , but the new boy Sanchez will have , he aint going to Liverpool as Arsenal are a bigger club with money to burn as a club never mind tapping up S Kronke or the Russian for spends , anyway he prefers London ......................EYG
		
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erm since when were Arsenal a 'bigger' club?

Larger stadium yes but thats where it ends!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

Arsenal a bigger club !?!? :rofl: 

Thats nearly as funny as Ozil being worth double his fee


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## JCW (Jul 7, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			erm since when were Arsenal a 'bigger' club?

Larger stadium yes but thats where it ends!
		
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In the European Power rankings Arsenal are 11 , Liverpool are not even in the top 25 , now how they rated it i dont know but thats what its says .......................EYG


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## JCW (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal a bigger club !?!? :rofl: 

Thats nearly as funny as Ozil being worth double his fee
		
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Well i would not go double on his fee , i give you that ....................EYG


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

I would suggest that anyone who thinks Ã¶zil was poor last season didn't watch a lot of Arsenal games last season nor do they understand the way Ã–zil plays or what he gives to a team. 

Ramsey was statistically the best midfielder in the league by a mile until he got injured, Arsenal fell away after his injury not just Ã–zil.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

I agree that Ozil missed Ramsey after he was injured.


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## c1973 (Jul 7, 2014)

I think Arsenal will get more from Ozil this year,  he's a better player than he has shown them so far.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

c1973 said:



			I think Arsenal will get more from Ozil this year,  he's a better player than he has shown them so far.
		
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i think he is your typical small skillful lightweight player - great when conditions suit him but will go missing when its a bit rough and tough in the prem.


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## MadAdey (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I would suggest that anyone who thinks Ã¶zil was poor last season didn't watch a lot of Arsenal games last season nor do they understand the way Ã–zil plays or what he gives to a team. 

Ramsey was statistically the best midfielder in the league by a mile until he got injured, Arsenal fell away after his injury not just Ã–zil.
		
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Going on your assessment of Ozil, if he was sold he would be the worlds most expensive player. He is a good player but I did not see teams fighting each other for his signature when you signed him, so to that says you payed top dollar for him, or other teams would have tried to get him.


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## c1973 (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think he is your typical small skillful lightweight player - great when conditions suit him but will go missing when its a bit rough and tough in the prem.
		
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You're correct if you take last season as a reference.  I reckon a season in the EPL under his belt might have done him some good though and he'll be up for a bit more rough and tumble.


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## JCW (Jul 7, 2014)

c1973 said:



			I think Arsenal will get more from Ozil this year,  he's a better player than he has shown them so far.
		
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He is just class , has a lazy style about him and  has great vision , just moves with little effort and does not waste the ball much , if they  get Sanchez and together with walcott , ox and Ramsey making runs look out , they take some stopping , when Ramsey and walcott got injured Arsenal`s form did dip a lot .............. a few more added and luck with injuries and they will do well this year , wenger is staying away from african players as the African cup of nations takes players away in jan hence him now buying more german .............................EYG


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## MadAdey (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think he is your typical small skillful lightweight player - great when conditions suit him but will go missing when its a bit rough and tough in the prem.
		
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So is Sanchez, will be interesting to see how he handles an away match at Stoke. When is Wenger gong to turn his attention to what he actually needs, a strong powerful CM and a top quality CB. Not saying that he does not need Sanchez, as he will add a great dimension to their attack.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

I still see Arsenal as being a lightweight side. Where's the real ball winner and the player going to make tackles and the hard yards like Scholes, Gerrard etc. They seem to struggle when their midfield gets bullied and I think Wenger needs someone a bit firmer in there


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			So is Sanchez, will be interesting to see how he handles an away match at Stoke. When is Wenger gong to turn his attention to what he actually needs, *a strong powerful CM and a top quality CB*. Not saying that he does not need Sanchez, as he will add a great dimension to their attack.
		
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He never will now - dont think he can see that his team was most successful with a Veria in the middle and an Adams at the back - it will be Arsenals achilles heal every season.


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## JCW (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think he is your typical small skillful lightweight player - great when conditions suit him but will go missing when its a bit rough and tough in the prem.
		
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He has so much skill he just ride it , these are not days of Norman hunter and the rest where you can just kick people all day long and get away with it , if you did then Stoke would be top of the league , dirty hard teams dont win anymore , its pace that scares teams ...................EYG


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## freddielong (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Going on your assessment of Ozil, if he was sold he would be the worlds most expensive player. He is a good player but I did not see teams fighting each other for his signature when you signed him, so to that says you payed top dollar for him, or other teams would have tried to get him.
		
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Again if that's your opinion you are welcome to it, I stand by what I said he is my favorite player and I wouldn't want to sell him at any price. 
Liverpoolphil
To say he can't do it when it gets a bit tough shows that your not able to form your own opinions and get them from anti Arsenal radio station talksport


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## MadAdey (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He never will now - dont think he can see that his team was most successful with a Veria in the middle and an Adams at the back - it will be Arsenals achilles heal every season.
		
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I will not knock Wenger for the beautiful football his teams play. The have undoubtably played the prettiest football n the PL for many years. But sometimes you need to dig in and get dirty, since his team of 9/10 years ago changed he has never had those type of players. Drop someone like Toure and Kompany into that team and they are true PL and CL contenders. Without that I just do not see it happening.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I will not knock Wenger for the beautiful football his teams play. The have undoubtably played the prettiest football n the PL for many years. But sometimes you need to dig in and get dirty, since his team of 9/10 years ago changed he has never had those type of players. Drop someone like Toure and Kompany into that team and they are true PL and CL contenders. Without that I just do not see it happening.
		
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That's my take too. Get a real midfield general in there and with the speed and flair around them and they will be contenders on many fronts. It needs someone to hold it all together.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Again if that's your opinion you are welcome to it, I stand by what I said he is my favorite player and I wouldn't want to sell him at any price. 
Liverpoolphil
To say he can't do it when it gets a bit tough shows that your not able to form your own opinions and get them from anti Arsenal radio station talksport
		
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Against us he spent the whole game in the pocket of Henderson and he was that poor he was subbed after 60 mins

He didnt look a Â£3mil player that day let alone a Â£30mil one


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I will not knock Wenger for the beautiful football his teams play. The have undoubtably played the prettiest football n the PL for many years. But sometimes you need to dig in and get dirty, since his team of 9/10 years ago changed he has never had those type of players. Drop someone like Toure and Kompany into that team and they are true PL and CL contenders. Without that I just do not see it happening.
		
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I agree with this, I genuinely think wenger is a brilliant attacking coach, but his best team was with a defence he inherited. 

Last year though tbf the defence improved massively and I think it was more of a lack of goals that cost. Unfortunately for all the youngsters he signs the squad numbers aren't there. He lost Walcott and Ramsey and that was game over. 

This talk of Ozil being their best player is probably true though, if he has the team set up around him as it was at start of season he was terrifying defences, unfortunately as soon as he lost his protection (Ramsey) he couldn't perform.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

I don't know that I'd agree that the defence was that great last year and certainly not a Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Dixon. If thy can strengthen the back four, add some bite to midfield and some depth to the defence and midfield they really will be a force. I fear that injuries will leave them paper thin again


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I don't know that I'd agree that the defence was that great last year and certainly not a Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Dixon. If thy can strengthen the back four, add some bite to midfield and some depth to the defence and midfield they really will be a force. I fear that injuries will leave them paper thin again
		
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I agree not a force in comparison to what you've mentioned above, just better than recent games. They need leadership, wherever it comes from to stop the capitulations against top clubs.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree not a force in comparison to what you've mentioned above, just better than recent games. They need leadership, wherever it comes from to stop the capitulations against top clubs.
		
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Not sure there will ever be a back four to rival those. Arsenal did seem to concede soft goals against the top teams which is where you leader and solid midfielder comes in


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## sawtooth (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with this, I genuinely think wenger is a brilliant attacking coach, but his best team was with a defence he inherited. .
		
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Yes but Wenger's "invincible" team wasn't too shabby either and he pretty much constructed that defence. Lehmann, Campbell, Lauren, Toure, etc.

We did however have the physicality of Glberto, Edu, Parlour and of course Viera in the middle of the park which helped a bit


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but Wenger's "invincible" team wasn't too shabby either and he pretty much constructed that defence. Lehmann, Campbell, Lauren, Toure, etc.

We did however have the physicality of Glberto, Edu, Parlour and of course Viera in the middle of the park which helped a bit

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Credit to wenger, I'm not calling a bad manager by any shape. But that defence was extremely protected by that awesome midfield and the attacking skills of Henry and Tom Daley.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Yes but Wenger's "invincible" team wasn't too shabby either and he pretty much constructed that defence. Lehmann, Campbell, Lauren, Toure, etc.

We did however have the physicality of Glberto, Edu, Parlour and of course Viera in the middle of the park which helped a bit

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Again another quality team with the right mix of steel and the grace of Henry and Pires - why doesnt he look at that successful blueprint


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Credit to wenger, I'm not calling a bad manager by any shape. But that defence was extremely protected by that awesome midfield and the attacking skills of Henry and Tom Daley.
		
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Tom Daley dives too much for me


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Tom Daley dives too much for me
		
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Much like Pires! Even as a saints fan I was outraged by his dive against Pompey to keep their unbeaten season going.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 8, 2014)

Let's see what signings Wenger makes,they already have quality players in Ozil,Walcott,Ramsey..... They're main problem always seems to be long term injuries. 
Wenger will be under pressure as he is every season,but so will Jose after a disappointing season & Rogers after a decent season & looks like spending a lot of cash.


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## MadAdey (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again another quality team with the right mix of steel and the grace of Henry and Pires - why doesnt he look at that successful blueprint
		
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But will he ever change it? People have been saying for years that Wenger needs some strength in the middle, all the great premier league teams have had a great blend of attacking flair and defensive strength.

bergkamp & Henry - Viera & Keown
Scholes, Giggs & Beckham - Keane & Stam
Cantona & Giggs - Keane & Pallister
Drogba & Robben - Terry & Makelele
Silva & Aguero - Toure & Kompany

compare them to the current Arsenal team..........


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

This thread has become similar to a 28 handicapper trying to get out of a pot bunkeryou know some basics cause you   have read about it but you don't really have a clue what your doing.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			This thread has become similar to a 28 handicapper trying to get out of a pot bunkeryou know some basics cause you   have read about it but you don't really have a clue what your doing.
		
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Hee hee..Best comment so far on here..You may get told to shove off,this thread though, if you are not a beloved red....:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			This thread has become similar to a 28 handicapper trying to get out of a pot bunkeryou know some basics cause you   have read about it but you don't really have a clue what your doing.
		
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You have yourself spot on there :thup:

Unless of course you disagree with the assessment of Wenger by posters


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			This thread has become similar to a 28 handicapper trying to get out of a pot bunkeryou know some basics cause you   have read about it but you don't really have a clue what your doing.
		
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Well said sir.

In the World cup the expert fans of England had Costa Rica going home pointless.
The expert fans of Germany voted their team 'the worst ever' in the early stages of the campaign.


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You have yourself spot on there :thup:

Unless of course you disagree with the assessment of Wenger by posters
		
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Which of course you know I do


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Which of course you know I do
		
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So you think Wenger is right not to get a Veira type or Adams type despite it being clear that's when he had a title winning team ?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			This thread has become similar to a 28 handicapper trying to get out of a pot bunkeryou know some basics cause you   have read about it but you don't really have a clue what your doing.
		
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Does that include you, or are you the expert in all of this?


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you think Wenger is right not to get a Veira type or Adams type despite it being clear that's when he had a title winning team ?
		
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We have discussed this many times Wenger has made occasional mistakes but he gets it right enough for me to trust him and acknowledge that he knows more than I do and indeed more than anyone on here does.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			We have discussed this many times Wenger has made occasional mistakes but he gets it right enough for me to trust him and acknowledge that he knows more than I do and indeed more than anyone on here does.
		
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Well avoided .

Occasional mistakes ? When did you last win the title under him ? Or are your ambitions now limited to just qualifying for CL ?


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well avoided .

Occasional mistakes ? When did you last win the title under him ? Or are your ambitions now limited to just qualifying for CL ?
		
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Are you a Liverpool fan seriously going to talk about last title 

We have discussed this several times Arsenal have had to work within very tight financial restraints over the past 9 seasons we have had to keep our net spend as small as possible this did mean changing our goals

This period is now over which the next few weeks will prove and I will bet we will not have to wait another 9 year's 

Unlike all filler no killer Liverpool


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Are you a Liverpool fan seriously going to talk about last title 

We have discussed this several times Arsenal have had to work within very tight financial restraints over the past 9 seasons we have had to keep our net spend as small as possible this did mean changing our goals

This period is now over which the next few weeks will prove and I will bet we will not have to wait another 9 year's 

Unlike all filler no killer Liverpool
		
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We have sacked our managers who failed to win the title 

Are you saying that Arsenal haven't been able to spend any money to buy a Veira replacement ? 

How much were players like Ozil , Carzorla , Rosciky , Podolski etc etc - all similar type players when what has always been needed was a replacement for Veira. 

Arsenal have still spent a great deal of money over the last 9 years.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well avoided .

Occasional mistakes ? When did you last win the title under him ? Or are your ambitions now limited to just qualifying for CL ?
		
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This is a wind up right?? 
How many times do we hear Liverpool say "we're happy to make top 4"?? 
If Brenda spends Â£100m (which looks likely) is he expected to win the league?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Arsenal confident of Â£30m purchase of sanchez.  With rumours of Suarez deal being Â£40m upfront look like barca are waiting to get the money in before they spend.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Meanwhile Saints have finally announced the signing of Dusan Tadic for an undisclosed fee.
Liverpool will be putting a bid in first thing in the morning...


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We have sacked our managers who failed to win the title 

Are you saying that Arsenal haven't been able to spend any money to buy a Veira replacement ? 

How much were players like Ozil , Carzorla , Rosciky , Podolski etc etc - all similar type players when what has always been needed was a replacement for Veira. 

Arsenal have still spent a great deal of money over the last 9 years.
		
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Arsenal have only been able to spend what they could recoup from sales we has discussed this many times I don't know how to make it any easier for you to understand yes they have spent money but we haven't had league winning money to spend so we have had to cut our cloth accordingly and make CL qualification the priority something Arsene has delivered. 

In your opinion we need a defensive midfielder but not in Arsene's

I will take Arsene's opinions over yours every day of the week.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 8, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			Meanwhile Saints have finally announced the signing of Dusan Tadic for an undisclosed fee.
Liverpool will be putting a bid in first thing in the morning...
		
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Good to hear.........Saints must be laughing their socks off with their business model.

Introduce new players to the EPL........sell them to a top six side .....and repeat.

Liverpool Â£500,000.000.00 in debt.
Southhampton....getting rich.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			This is a wind up right?? 
How many times do we hear Liverpool say "we're happy to make top 4"?? 
If Brenda spends Â£100m (which looks likely) is he expected to win the league?
		
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After the major problems with the previous owners saddling the club with a unmanageable massive debt, Liverpool's expectations were lowered  so that's why CL football was always going to be the realistic target.

As for this coming seasons expectations, I don't expect them to win the league after spending Â£100m.

As has been proved by Chelsea and Man City in recent history, to break into winning the league you have to spend Â£200m plus paying massive wages to guarantee winning titles.

Wenger has spent good money  recently  eg Arteta Â£12m  etc so he's hardly been in charge of a paupers club has he.

I don't think Wenger is above questioning/criticism.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 8, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			After the major problems with the previous owners saddling the club with a unmanageable massive debt, Liverpool's expectations were lowered  so that's why CL football was always going to be the realistic target.

As for this coming seasons expectations, I don't expect them to win the league after spending Â£100m.

As has been proved by Chelsea and Man City in recent history, to break into winning the league you have to spend Â£200m plus paying massive wages to guarantee winning titles.

Wenger has spent good money  recently  eg Arteta Â£12m  etc so he's hardly been in charge of a paupers club has he.

I don't think Wenger is above questioning/criticism.
		
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But neither is Rogers. Liverpool are spending serious money so should be looking to build on last season. 
Big test for Rogers after loosing Suarez,who IMO made him look good last.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Arsenal have only been able to spend what they could recoup from sales we has discussed this many times I don't know how to make it any easier for you to understand yes they have spent money but we haven't had league winning money to spend so we have had to cut our cloth accordingly and make CL qualification the priority something Arsene has delivered. 

In your opinion we need a defensive midfielder but not in Arsene's

I will take Arsene's opinions over yours every day of the week.
		
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Spent Â£140mil in the last 3 seasons - Wenger has spent money - lots of money. 

Wengers opinion has you failing to win the league over the last 9 years since you last had a quality DM - are you that blind to Wenger that you can't see the obvious connection 

With Veira in the middle you go unbeaten , get to CL final , win titles - without a Veira in the middle you go season after season without winning a title and finally scrape an FA Cup ? 

If Wenger goes another 5 years without winning the league will you still take his opinion 

You have a massive stadium , the most expensive seats in the country , multi billionaires in charge - and the height of your ambition is CL qualification ?!


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## SaintHacker (Jul 8, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good to hear.........Saints must be laughing their socks off with their business model.

Introduce new players to the EPL........sell them to a top six side .....and repeat.

Liverpool Â£500,000.000.00 in debt.
Southhampton....getting rich.
		
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The big plan is to have a Barcelona type set up producing a never ending stream of home grown talent. Obviously it can't happen overnight so we need to buy in in the meantime. But hopefully in a few years we will be in a position to be able to sell a player for x million pounds safe in the knowledge there is a ready made replacement waiting in the wings. Its frustrating at the moment watching our kids getting cherry picked by the so called big clubs, but as long as we can buy in players for less than we sell who are capable of keeping us in the top half of the prem then the big picture looks very bright indeed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			The big plan is to have a Barcelona type set up producing a never ending stream of home grown talent. Obviously it can't happen overnight so we need to buy in in the meantime. But hopefully in a few years we will be in a position to be able to sell a player for x million pounds safe in the knowledge there is a ready made replacement waiting in the wings. Its frustrating at the moment watching our kids getting cherry picked by the so called big clubs, but as long as we can buy in players for less than we sell who are capable of keeping us in the top half of the prem then the big picture looks very bright indeed.
		
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They aren't so called big clubs - they are big clubs 

And the talented players will always want to move on to clubs that will provide them the financial platform as well as playing at the highest level in club football. 

Soton just like West Ham have been in the past have had a good bunch come through and those players will naturally move on


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spent Â£140mil in the last 3 seasons - Wenger has spent money - lots of money. 

Wengers opinion has you failing to win the league over the last 9 years since you last had a quality DM - are you that blind to Wenger that you can't see the obvious connection 

With Veira in the middle you go unbeaten , get to CL final , win titles - without a Veira in the middle you go season after season without winning a title and finally scrape an FA Cup ? 

If Wenger goes another 5 years without winning the league will you still take his opinion 

You have a massive stadium , the most expensive seats in the country , multi billionaires in charge - and the height of your ambition is CL qualification ?!
		
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Here is one for you if Liverpools best player wants to leave Liverpool to join Barca (a bit like how he wanted to leave and join Arsenal last season) and Liverpool want Barca to pay 75 mil for him, but poor Barca only have 40mil in the bank they cant can they. Well here is the clever bit they sell another player to Arsenal for 35mil (a player that didn't want to go to Liverpool either and wanted to play for Mr Wenger) this puts an extra 35mil in their bank so that they now have 75 mil to spend on Liverpools best player.

The question is have Barca actually spent 75mil?




for which the answer is depends on who your accountant is


Arsenal will win the league within 3 seasons now that they are able to spend freely again


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## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But neither is Rogers. Liverpool are spending serious money so should be looking to build on last season. 
Big test for Rogers after loosing Suarez,who IMO made him look good last.
		
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I'm not Rodgers biggest fan tbh but he deserves credit for how he's changed and improved the team. He's had 2 seasons and has done pretty well to be fair.

Last season was ironic and I very much you'll ever see a side go from 7th to within a whisker of winning the league without spending Â£100m's.

The expectations  will be greater after last season for sure but without the world's best striker any side would struggle. There's not 1 player in world like Suarez  so losing him will be a major blow but it's times like this the manager makes a difference in either a new player or change of formation.

If Liverpool spend Â£100m but get Â£80m + back  then I won't expect another title challenge on a Â£20m net spend. Our squad isn't full of quality where Â£20m will make the difference. If we spend Â£120m net then yes my expectations would be higher.

Its all about net spend  in football.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Here is one for you if Liverpools best player wants to leave Liverpool to join Barca (a bit like how he wanted to leave and join Arsenal last season) and Liverpool want Barca to pay 75 mil for him, but poor Barca only have 40mil in the bank they cant can they. Well here is the clever bit they sell another player to Arsenal for 35mil (a player that didn't want to go to Liverpool either and wanted to play for Mr Wenger) this puts an extra 35mil in their bank so that they now have 75 mil to spend on Liverpools best player.

The question is have Barca actually spent 75mil?




for which the answer is depends on who your accountant is


Arsenal will win the league within 3 seasons now that they are able to spend freely again
		
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Again that avoids the point you keep on avoiding 

Which ever way you want to manipulate the figures - Arsenal spent 143 mil in three season 

Believe Arsenals net spend was greater than Liverpool's last season - yet finished below - your hands were that tied you were only able to spend Â£42mil on one player 

Arsenal won the league a few times with Veira in the middle - since Veira left they haven't ( a decade ago now ) 

So why hasn't Wenger bought a Veira replacement when it's clear it's a problem with his team.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You have a massive stadium , the most expensive seats in the country , multi billionaires in charge - and the height of your ambition is CL qualification ?!
		
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The thing is, they've made the move from Highbury to the Emirates and worked within a structured policy and the thing is, if CL is their ambition they have achieved it with regularity. That has to be testament to a consistent performance. Look at how much Liverpool, Spurs and others have spent in the same period and the revolving door of managers they've had when they haven't delivered. 

For what it's worth I think both Liverpool and Arsenal will make top 4 again next year but I really don't think either will be in the title race in the last few weeks. It would be great to see a three or four horse race. I think United will be more of a force this year too and it makes it an interesting season ahead. Shame Fulham will be watching it from the Championship


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 8, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not Rodgers biggest fan tbh but he deserves credit for how he's changed and improved the team. He's had 2 seasons and has done pretty well to be fair.

Last season was ironic and I very much you'll ever see a side go from 7th to within a whisker of winning the league without spending Â£100m's.

The expectations  will be greater after last season for sure but without the world's best striker any side would struggle. There's not 1 player in world like Suarez  so losing him will be a major blow but it's times like this the manager makes a difference in either a new player or change of formation.

If Liverpool spend Â£100m but get Â£80m + back  then I won't expect another title challenge on a Â£20m net spend. Our squad isn't full of quality where Â£20m will make the difference. If we spend Â£120m net then yes my expectations would be higher.

Its all about net spend  in football.
		
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Chelsea have sold over Â£100m worth of players but Jose will still be under pressure to produce,it's what happens at big clubs. 
We're Liverpool really a one man team last season? 
None of the other top teams rely on one player.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The thing is, they've made the move from Highbury to the Emirates and worked within a structured policy and the thing is, if CL is their ambition they have achieved it with regularity. That has to be testament to a consistent performance. Look at how much Liverpool, Spurs and others have spent in the same period and the revolving door of managers they've had when they haven't delivered. 

For what it's worth I think both Liverpool and Arsenal will make top 4 again next year but I really don't think either will be in the title race in the last few weeks. It would be great to see a three or four horse race. I think United will be more of a force this year too and it makes it an interesting season ahead. Shame Fulham will be watching it from the Championship
		
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Liverpool had major issues at boadroom level between 08-10 so its very hard to compare with Arsenal.
Rafa was sacked and Hodgson was employed so the banks could sell the club.

Dalglish delivered a trophy in 18months in charge a bit more than Wenger did.

The club is a lot healthier now financially and  hopefully we'll start to see success on the pitch on a regular basis.


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again that avoids the point you keep on avoiding 

Which ever way you want to manipulate the figures - Arsenal spent 143 mil in three season 

Arsenal won the league a few times with Veira in the middle - since Veira left they haven't ( a decade ago now ) 

So why hasn't Wenger bought a Veira replacement when it's clear it's a problem with his team.
		
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Again they have not spent 143 mil and again it is your opinion that they need such a player and they know they have only an outside chance of the league whilst they were paying for the stadium but that is changing 

I cannot make this any simpler for you, if you cannot understand it I cannot help you further


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Again they have not spent 143 mil and again it is your opinion that they need such a player and they know they have only an outside chance of the league whilst they were paying for the stadium but that is changing 

I cannot make this any simpler for you, if you cannot understand it I cannot help you further
		
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Arsenal have spent Â£143 mil in the last three years - regardless of where that money has come from that's how much they have paid clubs to buy players. 

Every year it's the same from Arsenal - and again Arsenal are looking to buy the same sort of player again - small technically skillful and will leave the same frailties that Arsenal have had since Veira left the club.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Chelsea have sold over Â£100m worth of players but Jose will still be under pressure to produce,it's what happens at big clubs. 
We're Liverpool really a one man team last season? 
None of the other top teams rely on one player.
		
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Chelsea already had a squad full of top quality, Liverpool didn't that is the difference.

Possibly not but he made a massive difference to our play.

On your 3rd point the top teams have 6 or 7 top players  in their sides and realistically Liverpool have 2 or 3, so until we spend Â£150m on top players in one summer we won't be on a level squad wise with  Chelsea's,City's etc.

We fell behind between 09-11 when the club was a in a bad state.

Sold Mascherano,Alonso etc and ended up with Poulsen and Konchesky!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal have spent Â£143 mil in the last three years - regardless of where that money has come from that's how much they have paid clubs to buy players. 

Every year it's the same from Arsenal - and again Arsenal are looking to buy the same sort of player again - small technically skillful and will leave the same frailties that Arsenal have had since Veira left the club.
		
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Times change and maybe Wenger doesn't see the need for the Viera type player. He gets into the CL every year so can't be too bad and they get out of the group fairly often too so can hold a candle to most of their counterparts


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They aren't so called big clubs - they are big clubs 

And the talented players will always want to move on to clubs that will provide them the financial platform as well as playing at the highest level in club football. 

Soton just like West Ham have been in the past have had a good bunch come through and those players will naturally move on
		
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to be fair, we have plenty more coming through. We made the call to go for youth 15 years ago when massively improving our youth structure. Rupert Lowe is hated on the South Coast but it was his business plan that set this in motion. Train youngsters and sell at a profit. 

Next season, chambers, taggart, prowse, clyne and Gallagher will be on people's radars. Yeah after that will be likes of Sinclair who got a bit of league cup game time. The trick is to try and utilise the funds we get to stabilise. I'm realistic enough that unless we get a billionaire in, the very very best we can hope for are being involved with Europa (Everton level) amd having a go at cups.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Times change and maybe Wenger doesn't see the need for the Viera type player. He gets into the CL every year so can't be too bad and they get out of the group fairly often too so can hold a candle to most of their counterparts
		
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Wenger doesn't and look at their trophy count since Wenger decided that ? Look at the top teams and see they have a player in the middle who controls the middle and is physically dominating 

Yes Wenger does qualify every year and that's it - if that's the limit of their ambition then Wenger is perfect for them. 

I suspect a lot of Arsenal fans have higher ambitions


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Times change and maybe Wenger doesn't see the need for the Viera type player. He gets into the CL every year so can't be too bad and they get out of the group fairly often too so can hold a candle to most of their counterparts
		
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I agree with this, although I think they need a leader. Last season a lot of fans were saying that sugar daddies have ruined the game. I'd suggest the biggest reason they've not won a league are Chelsea and City coming along whilst arsenal were under financial constraint.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with this, although I think they need a leader. Last season a lot of fans were saying that sugar daddies have ruined the game. I'd suggest the biggest reason they've not won a league are Chelsea and City coming along whilst arsenal were under financial constraint.
		
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What about Man UTD - they have finished behind them every season bar one since 04/05.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about Man UTD - they have finished behind them every season bar one since 04/05.
		
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I would be surprised if UTD didn't have a bigger net spend than arsenal since the sugar daddies arrived. They've also had the premierships greatest ever manager at the helm. Last season alone showed how big an influence he had on the lesser players there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree with this, although I think they need a leader. Last season a lot of fans were saying that sugar daddies have ruined the game. I'd suggest the biggest reason they've not won a league are Chelsea and City coming along whilst arsenal were under financial constraint.
		
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Chelsea and City bought the title. Simple. Throw whatever money needs to spent


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Arsenals net spend for the last 3 seasons is just under 23mil go back 5 seasons and its more or less 0 that is remarkable


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## sawtooth (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal have spent Â£143 mil in the last three years - regardless of where that money has come from that's how much they have paid clubs to buy players. 

Every year it's the same from Arsenal - and again Arsenal are looking to buy the same sort of player again - small technically skillful and will leave the same frailties that Arsenal have had since Veira left the club.
		
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On a small budget compared to the other Big 3, Arsenal have done as well as they could. In fact better than expected if you listen to the so-called experts on telly that have written Arsenal off so many times over the years. Credit to Wenger for being consistent through a period of so much change both inside and outside Arsenal. Its not easy to compete with the likes of City, Utd and Chelsea but I honestly think Wenger will get even closer this year. BTW 7 points is hardly a million miles away.

Lets see if Liverpool can qualify for the CL for the next 15 years, a bookie would probably give you 500/1 against.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Arsenals net spend for the last 3 seasons is just under 23mil go back 5 seasons and its more or less 0 that is remarkable
		
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So the net spend is about the same as the trophy count 

But it doesn't change the fact that millions have been spent on players over those years - where the money comes from makes no difference. 

Arsenal have spent millions on players. Ozil alone was Â£42mil - only two other teams have spent more on one player.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			On a small budget compared to the other Big 3, Arsenal have done as well as they could. In fact better than expected if you listen to the so-called experts on telly that have written Arsenal off so many times over the years. Credit to Wenger for being consistent through a period of so much change both inside and outside Arsenal. Its not easy to compete with the likes of City, Utd and Chelsea but I honestly think Wenger will get even closer this year. BTW 7 points is hardly a million miles away.

Lets see if Liverpool can qualify for the CL for the next 15 years, a bookie would probably give you 500/1 against.
		
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Surely you have higher ambitions than to just qualify ? 

Surely you want a season to last past Feb each year. 

Your fans pay more money to watch your team than anyone else in the country - they surely want more than to just qualify ?! 

It's the same story every season with Arsenal 

Summer - buy small technical players plus a few cheap French kids 

Start of season - the new signings start lovely with lots of great football whilst the sun shines 

Autumn - getting out of the group stage is secure 

Winter - Walcott injured , small technical players go into hiding 

Spring - bow out of the CL in the last 16 

End of season - Arsenal wither to 4th 

Repeat each year


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

But what about Liverpool. Not long ago your season finished when the Christmas decorations came down. Great that you had a great season last year but I'd rather take Arsenals consistency and know they'd be in the CL again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But what about Liverpool. Not long ago your season finished when the Christmas decorations came down. Great that you had a great season last year but I'd rather take Arsenals consistency and know they'd be in the CL again.
		
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Yep we have been poor and managers have been sacked and we haven't been satisfied with the results 

I won't be satisfied until we are challenging  and winning big trophies - just qualifying won't be limit of the ambition


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

There in lies the problem. I don't know that you will. I don't see you winning the PL or CL. If the Carling cup counts then fine. It's great to be ambitious but I think United will splash cash and not dare repeat last season. Chelsea and City will do the same if the feel the need and Wenger will do it his way and connive a way. I think you'll contend for sure. Win...... not yet


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep we have been poor and managers have been sacked and we haven't been satisfied with the results 

I won't be satisfied until we are challenging  and winning big trophies - just qualifying won't be limit of the ambition
		
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How has sacking managers worked out for you how long is it 25 years


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			How has sacking managers worked out for you how long is it 25 years
		
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How has keeping Wenger worked out for you in the last ten years ? 

We may have been poor below our standards but still streets ahead of Arsenal. Even whilst we have been struggling we managed it grab a CL win - how about Arsenal ?


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## sawtooth (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How has keeping Wenger worked out for you in the last ten years ?
		
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Phil you must be on a wind up. Liverpool qualify for the CL once or twice in a blue moon and you mock Wenger when he has qualified Arsenal 16 years in a row?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Phil you must be on a wind up. Liverpool qualify for the CL once or twice in a blue moon and you mock Wenger when he has qualified Arsenal 16 years in a row?
		
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Qualified enough to actually win the trophy and also reach another final , plus 2 semi finals , and a couple of quarter finals ( believe one of those was knocking out Arsenal ) 

There is more than just qualifying - it appears that's the level of ambition for Arsenal.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

But that one CL win masks a whole load of underachieving in the PL. Arsenal invincibles won't be done again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But that one CL win masks a whole load of underachieving in the PL. Arsenal invincibles won't be done again.
		
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Doesn't mask anything 

We know we have under achieved in the prem in the last two decades and it has cost managers their jobs. Arsenal are halfway there to matching that now yet the same manager still plods along.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal are halfway there to matching that
		
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Exactly. Half the time to change it around. Don't actually think he will and both Arsenal and Liverpool will struggle to break a City/Chelsea dominance. I think United are in the same boat too these days


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Exactly. Half the time to change it around. Don't actually think he will and both Arsenal and Liverpool will struggle to break a City/Chelsea dominance. I think United are in the same boat too these days
		
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Even whilst we were struggling in the the prem we were still winning trophies - both domestic and European to enable to team to continue to be successful


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Phil you must be on a wind up. Liverpool qualify for the CL once or twice in a blue moon and you mock Wenger when he has qualified Arsenal 16 years in a row?
		
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There is no point he just doesn't understand best let him rest


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			There is no point he just doesn't understand best let him rest
		
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Oh I understand - qualifying for CL is the level of your ambition. Simple


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Phil you must be on a wind up. Liverpool qualify for the CL once or twice in a blue moon and you mock Wenger when he has qualified Arsenal 16 years in a row?
		
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freddielong said:



			There is no point he just doesn't understand best let him rest
		
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He'll keep going until he batters you into submission or converts you into a Scouser. Give it up


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			He'll keep going until he batters you into submission or converts you into a Scouser. Give it up
		
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You don't have to reply Homer


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh I understand - qualifying for CL is the level of your ambition. Simple
		
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See doesn't get it I really have tried lots of times

Poor guy


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			See doesn't get it I really have tried lots of times

Poor guy
		
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GREAT FINISH by Ozil, oops!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			See doesn't get it I really have tried lots of times

Poor guy
		
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You haven't tried anything - you have avoided lots of points 

Over the last decade since you last won the title all you have done is just qualify for the CL - if you have higher ambitions than that then why are you happy with a manager who isn't giving you more - oh that's rights you haven't got any money to spend etc etc etc ( despite spending millions )

I have no doubt your season will be the same maybe even worse than your previous ten seasons - there will be no change because the same flaws are there within your squad,


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You haven't tried anything - you have avoided lots of points 

Over the last decade since you last won the title all you have done is just qualify for the CL - if you have higher ambitions than that then why are you happy with a manager who isn't giving you more - oh that's rights you haven't got any money to spend etc etc etc ( despite spending millions )

I have no doubt your season will be the same maybe even worse than your previous ten seasons - there will be no change because the same flaws are there within your squad,
		
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Hmm ok we will see


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Phil you must be on a wind up. Liverpool qualify for the CL once or twice in a blue moon and you mock Wenger when he has qualified Arsenal 16 years in a row?
		
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freddielong said:



			There is no point he just doesn't understand best let him rest
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			You don't have to reply Homer
		
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And you could concede that others may have a point that is correct even if it doesn't correspond to your own. Anyway we know that won't happen and I've more chance of single figures. Others have argued points too. Hey ho. I'm done here for a bit as we're go round in circles. Off to see the Brazil meltdown in the media


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And you could concede that others may have a point that is correct even if it doesn't correspond to your own. Anyway we know that won't happen and I've more chance of single figures. Others have argued points too. Hey ho. I'm done here for a bit as we're go round in circles. Off to see the Brazil meltdown in the media
		
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I haven't once said that others don't have a point that is correct ? 

As I have said countless times - you don't have to reply or get involved Homer


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 8, 2014)

When I have spoken to sensible Man U fans over the last few years, Iâ€™ve asked if the're being honest where they disappointed in how many CLâ€™s Alex Ferguson won? Given how many times that they got through the group stages, the players they had, the money they had and generally that he never had to carry out massive overhauls to the team.

Some of them have agreed, even to a scouser.

Can Arsenal fans honestly not say the same. I cant remember them not getting through the group stages, they must have got to the QFâ€™s at least 12 times, and not won it once.

Be honest, are you happy with that, or are you just happy tohave the money coming in?

Would you not even prefer if he had given it less credence,and concentrated on the league instead? 

BTW isnâ€™t it sad (but predictable) how much money comes intoconversations about football these last 10 years. Not so much tactics, players,managers but money, money, money. Iâ€™m as guilty, BTW.


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## sawtooth (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



When I have spoken to sensible Man U fans over the last few years, Iâ€™ve asked if the're being honest where they disappointed in how many CLâ€™s Alex Ferguson won? Given how many times that they got through the group stages, the players they had, the money they had and generally that he never had to carry out massive overhauls to the team.

Some of them have agreed, even to a scouser.

Can Arsenal fans honestly not say the same. I cant remember them not getting through the group stages, they must have got to the QFâ€™s at least 12 times, and not won it once.

Be honest, are you happy with that, or are you just happy tohave the money coming in?

Would you not even prefer if he had given it less credence,and concentrated on the league instead? 

BTW isnâ€™t it sad (but predictable) how much money comes intoconversations about football these last 10 years. Not so much tactics, players,managers but money, money, money. Iâ€™m as guilty, BTW.

Click to expand...

I'm honestly very happy with Wenger and what he has achieved in his tenure at the club. I look at the big picture, he has improved Arsenal FC immeasurably. Its not all about trophies when you consider the other great things he has accomplished. Of course I would not be happy if we had another 10 years like the last 10 but hand on heart I think Wenger will start winning trophies again. The new stadium is behind us, revenues are stronger than ever before and  financial fair play (if implemented) will also help close the gap.

Wenger had to go after the CL as it guarantees at least Â£30M a year, important if you have a Â£350M+ mortgage!

The only small criticism of Wenger IMO is that he can be too shrewd for his own good. It seems that he spends Arsenals money like it was his own and it appeared to me that he wanted to clear the stadium debt off all by himself (through success on the pitch). Also I am sure that the board had made a lot more money available over the years but my guess is that he was probably too proud to accept it.  If I'm right its still very admirable that he tread so carefully with the club's finances. The club is in very good hands whilst he is still there and long may it continue.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So the net spend is about the same as the trophy count 

But it doesn't change the fact that millions have been spent on players over those years - where the money comes from makes no difference. 

Arsenal have spent millions on players. Ozil alone was Â£42mil - only two other teams have spent more on one player.
		
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Massive contradiction here. One minute it does matter where money comes from eg City/Chelsea ,& now you're saying it doesn't matter

So basically when Liverpool fail you can blame Chelsea & City's spending but when others fail it doesn't matter


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## freddielong (Jul 9, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			I'm honestly very happy with Wenger and what he has achieved in his tenure at the club. I look at the big picture, he has improved Arsenal FC immeasurably. Its not all about trophies when you consider the other great things he has accomplished. Of course I would not be happy if we had another 10 years like the last 10 but hand on heart I think Wenger will start winning trophies again. The new stadium is behind us, revenues are stronger than ever before and  financial fair play (if implemented) will also help close the gap.h

Wenger had to go after the CL as it guarantees at least Â£30M a year, important if you have a Â£350M+ mortgage!

The only small criticism of Wenger IMO is that he can be too shrewd for his own good. It seems that he spends Arsenals money like it was his own and it appeared to me that he wanted to clear the stadium debt off all by himself (through success on the pitch). Also I am sure that the board had made a lot more money available over the years but my guess is that he was probably too proud to accept it.  If I'm right its still very admirable that he tread so carefully with the club's finances. The club is in very good hands whilst he is still there and long may it continue.
		
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You have to remember Arsene has a master's in economics so he won't spend what the club can't afford but financially we have turned the corner and really excited about next few years. We have already spent 40 mil and there will be a couple more signings.


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## sawtooth (Jul 9, 2014)

freddielong said:



			....really excited about next few years. We have already spent 40 mil and there will be a couple more signings.
		
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Me too, but the Sanchez deal is not done yet. Liverpool really want him as well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Me too, but the Sanchez deal is not done yet. Liverpool really want him as well.
		
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I think you will get him - he wants to live in London , if there was any danger it would be from Juve

The player I think you should get is Pogba


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think you will get him - he wants to live in London , if there was any danger it would be from Juve

The player I think you should get is Pogba
		
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With the parlous state of football finance in Italy it is hard to see how Juventus are going to compete for Â£30-Â£40 million players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			With the parlous state of football finance in Italy it is hard to see how Juventus are going to compete for Â£30-Â£40 million players.
		
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I think possibly by selling Pogba - talk of PSG after him for Â£40-50mil


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Me too, but the Sanchez deal is not done yet. Liverpool really want him as well.
		
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I think it's as good as done,he seemed to discard Liverpool pretty quickly even tho Barca would have preferred it as part of the Suarez deal. 
Sanchez looks like he could be a quality signing.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think possibly by selling Pogba - talk of PSG after him for Â£40-50mil
		
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Blimey the world has truly gone barmy, Â£40-Â£50 million for a kid who has had one halfway decent season. Lot of money for potential.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Blimey the world has truly gone barmy, Â£40-Â£50 million for a kid who has had one halfway decent season. Lot of money for potential.
		
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Luke Shaw


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Blimey the world has truly gone barmy, Â£40-Â£50 million for a kid who has had one halfway decent season. Lot of money for potential.
		
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It is a lot of money - this is the same team that paid Â£50mil for Luiz !!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Luke Shaw 

Click to expand...

Luiz
Lallana


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Luke Shaw 

Click to expand...

Exactly!


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			I'm honestly very happy with Wenger and what he has achieved in his tenure at the club. I look at the big picture, he has improved Arsenal FC immeasurably. Its not all about trophies when you consider the other great things he has accomplished. Of course I would not be happy if we had another 10 years like the last 10 but hand on heart I think Wenger will start winning trophies again. The new stadium is behind us, revenues are stronger than ever before and  financial fair play (if implemented) will also help close the gap.

Wenger had to go after the CL as it guarantees at least Â£30M a year, important if you have a Â£350M+ mortgage!

The only small criticism of Wenger IMO is that he can be too shrewd for his own good. It seems that he spends Arsenals money like it was his own and it appeared to me that he wanted to clear the stadium debt off all by himself (through success on the pitch). Also I am sure that the board had made a lot more money available over the years but my guess is that he was probably too proud to accept it.  If I'm right its still very admirable that he tread so carefully with the club's finances. The club is in very good hands whilst he is still there and long may it continue.
		
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Whilst Arseneâ€™s/Arsenalâ€™s financial prudence is to be admired, especially in this day and age, there are no trophies for paying off the ground early. That is what mortgages are for. Pay over a long period of time, whilst still enjoying the luxuries (in football=trophies).

Now you have come through the first 10 years and are ahead of schedule, it may now see Arsenal as a powerhouse in the league spending wise. Some fair points, and maybe the lean years will be over and you may see periods of extended success, who knows.

Maybe we should judge Arsenal/Arsene over these coming years, it will be interesting.

You still didnâ€™t answer the direct question about his years in Europe of getting through countless groups then going out very quickly afterwards each time. Teams with lesser players, less money spent etc have still done better on occasions â€“ surely Arsene should have 1-2 tucked under his belt with some of the players and teams he has had.

Even we got to two finals with the likes of Traore, Biscan,Pennant and others in tow.

Maybe in Europe, Arsene should have done the books and letDein pick the teamâ€¦.. J


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## sawtooth (Jul 10, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:




You still didnâ€™t answer the direct question about his years in Europe of getting through countless groups then going out very quickly afterwards each time. Teams with lesser players, less money spent etc have still done better on occasions â€“ surely Arsene should have 1-2 tucked under his belt with some of the players and teams he has had.

Click to expand...

Of course I would have liked Arsenal to have won a CL or get closer than what they did but we weren't good enough. BTW there are no mugs in the CL , all of the teams can be dangerous. And even if there are such a thing as "whipping boys" in the CL I cant remember Arsenal getting knocked out by them many times. Bayern, Barca a few times yes but not by so called weak teams that often.

Like I said before, I was satisfied that we got there year on year whilst other things were going on at the club. So overall yes I was (and I still am) satisfied with the state of play.


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## MadAdey (Jul 10, 2014)

Arsenal to me with Sanchez and Debuchy coming in are going to get a coulple of good signings. But if they get Khediera I think the y would rally install themself as a title contender for next year.


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## freddielong (Jul 10, 2014)




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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2014)

freddielong said:



View attachment 11457

Click to expand...

Excellent signing,can't wait for the new season to get underway now. 
Pretty happy with Chelsea's transfer activity,although I haven't seen much of Costa. 
UTD & Arsenal will be much stronger & obviously City will be up there.


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## freddielong (Jul 10, 2014)

Should be a good close season again


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## JCW (Jul 10, 2014)

Arsenal just bought Sanchez , more to come , looking good


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## sawtooth (Jul 11, 2014)

Yep looking good, Khedira, Debuchy maybe next.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 11, 2014)

Arsenal splashing the cash. Whatever next. Some good signings made and lined up and to be honest they could just be a good bet to sneak up and get past City and Chelsea who I still think will be the dominant forces. I remain unconvinced United will still be title contenders although I do see them being far more competitive this season. It's bubbling along nicely. Just a shame the mighty Fulham nil won't be at the party for this season at least... and a good few more if I'm honest


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## freddielong (Jul 11, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Yep looking good, Khedira, Debuchy maybe next.
		
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Debachy is done, Ã–zil and Khedira are major bro's so really hoping we can pull that off, we only have one senior keeper at the moment so that will be addressed.

Only repeating this cause it was funny Liverpool's front line gone from SAS to LOL
Lallana Origi Lambert

Going to be a good season everyone looking strong even think Spurs will be better with a good manager this season.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 11, 2014)

Sanchez is a great signing for the gooners. Khedira would be as well.

Debuchy didn't impress me much last year, did I miss something?


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## richy (Jul 11, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sanchez is a great signing for the gooners. Khedira would be as well.

Debuchy didn't impress me much last year, did I miss something?
		
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Stats wise he was one of the best right backs in the league last year, he just plays in a poor team. 

Saying that not all great teams have great players in every position. Look at Glen Johnson


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## JCW (Jul 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It is a lot of money - this is the same team that paid Â£50mil for Luiz !!
		
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LS is leaving Liverpool , is golf balls in the post ??


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## c1973 (Jul 11, 2014)

I reckon it could quite easily be a 5 or 6 way fight for the title this year. Expect a couple will pull away at the death, but it could be another good run in. 

Liverpool should be looking at consolidating top 4 and a good CL, then push on the following year with a little bit more quality to add to the depth created this year.
Arsenal could be close if they are spending big.
Man U will improve under LOG
Chelsea will be a different prospect if Costa hits the ground running
Man City will wait to see who wins the WC and buy the team

Interesting season methinks.


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## NWJocko (Jul 11, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Sanchez is a great signing for the gooners. Khedira would be as well.

Debuchy didn't impress me much last year, did I miss something?
		
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Agree, Khedira is a good player.

Â£35m for sanchez shows how overpriced English players are with Lallana at Â£25m!!!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Agree, Khedira is a good player.

Â£35m for sanchez shows how overpriced English players are with Lallana at Â£25m!!!
		
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Depends how they both do come the end of the season.........


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## NWJocko (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Depends how they both do come the end of the season.........
		
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Sanchez is in a different league of player to Lallana IMO of course, and he's younger.

Same applies to Luke Shaw etc, English players just seem to be overpriced, relatively speaking. Maybe its more players moving between EPL clubs more than an English thing?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Sanchez is in a different league of player to Lallana IMO of course, and he's younger.

Same applies to Luke Shaw etc, English players just seem to be overpriced, relatively speaking. Maybe its more players moving between EPL clubs more than an English thing?
		
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I think your second sentence is spot on. So much money in the premierleague that they may overpay to rivals. Money is lopsided in Spain, so unless selling to a rival barca/real have their hands tied over fees received.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2014)

Looks like Marikovic and Ogiri are sorted 

Left back possibly Davies from Swansea 

CB - either Lovren or Caulker 

Think we still need an attacking CM but squad is starting to fill up


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Marikovic and Ogiri are sorted 

Left back possibly Davies from Swansea 

CB - either Lovren or Caulker 

Think we still need an attacking CM but squad is starting to fill up
		
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Fill up
It's quality that counts


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Fill up
It's quality that counts 

Click to expand...

## Stop press ## Pinseeker in dig at Liverpool post, fancy that.

Change the record, lad.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			## Stop press ## Pinseeker in dig at Liverpool post, fancy that.

Change the record, lad.
		
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Aaaaawwww bless you


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Appears Ayre is trying to sort the Moreno deal and lots of "chatter" has appeared about an interest in Reus and Remy ! Would be very happy with that


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Said last night Reus would be good.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Looks like Marikovic and Ogiri are sorted 

Left back possibly Davies from Swansea 

CB - either Lovren or Caulker 

Think we still need an attacking CM but squad is starting to fill up
		
Click to expand...

Not sure whats going on with Lovren. Last week I was sure he was as good as gone, but he has gone with the squad to the training camp in Belgium , and Koeman intimated in his press conference that we may offer him an improved contract to stay.

Changing the subject slightly Adam Lallana probably regrets going through Southampton airport on thursday, the unluncky lad walked straight into a group of about 60 Saints fans all off on a stag do. Got absolutely rinsed apparently:whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 17, 2014)

@BBCSporf: Liverpool spent Â£25 million on Adam Lallana 

Real Madrid spent Â£24 million on Toni Kroos 




Got to love twitter


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## Papas1982 (Jul 17, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			@BBCSporf: Liverpool spent Â£25 million on Adam Lallana 

Real Madrid spent Â£24 million on Toni Kroos 
View attachment 11499
View attachment 11499


Got to love twitter
		
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how ow much were Fellaini and Lamela last season? 

All teams get get rinsed at some point.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			how ow much were Fellaini and Lamela last season? 

All teams get get rinsed at some point.
		
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Banter :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 18, 2014)

I'm truly amazed 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-Sunderland-for-transfer-of-Fabio-Borini.html

How the hell are we making a profit on him !!Â£14mil !! 

Cheers Sunderland


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## Stuart_C (Jul 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm truly amazed 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-Sunderland-for-transfer-of-Fabio-Borini.html

How the hell are we making a profit on him !!Â£14mil !! 

Cheers Sunderland
		
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Didnt Rodgers spunk Â£12m on him initially?

I also think that figure will include add ons  so I very much doubt we'll make a profit  on him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Didnt Rodgers spunk Â£12m on him initially?

I also think that figure will include add ons  so I very much doubt we'll make a profit  on him.
		
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Think it was about Â£10mil we spent on him 

Now we are buying Remy - so swapping Borini for a proven goalscorer and making a bit of money - looks good business and good choices for the squad.


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## davemc1 (Jul 19, 2014)

If we are so close to getting an unbelievable Â£14m for Borini, why did we risk playing him today??


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## freddielong (Jul 19, 2014)

Borini doesn't want to go to Sunderland


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2014)

davemc1 said:



			If we are so close to getting an unbelievable Â£14m for Borini, why did we risk playing him today??
		
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Awaiting the player to agree terms with Sunderland ( rumours that an Italian club is interested )


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## sandmagnet (Jul 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think it was about Â£10mil we spent on him 

Now we are buying Remy - so swapping Borini for a proven goalscorer and making a bit of money - looks good business and good choices for the squad.
		
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You may be clutching at straws with rely IMO phil, bloke injured a lot and seems he can be a problem in dressing room.he would choose arsenal but seems winger don't want him so seems to be a problem! Hope you don't go like spurs and buy players willynilly.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2014)

sandmagnet said:



			You may be clutching at straws with rely IMO phil, bloke injured a lot and seems he can be a problem in dressing room.he would choose arsenal but seems winger don't want him so seems to be a problem! Hope you don't go like spurs and buy players willynilly.
		
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Being a problem player isn't really something our manager seems to be bothered about - would be another player added to provide options up from and he does score goals - very good record for scoring goals.


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## freddielong (Jul 19, 2014)

Borini has turned down the move to Sunderland


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 19, 2014)

sandmagnet said:



			Hope you don't go like spurs and buy players willynilly.
		
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Well spurs certainly played nilly a lot last year.:rofl:


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## sandmagnet (Jul 20, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Well spurs certainly played nilly a lot last year.:rofl:
		
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Yep and it was wonderful from my point of view being a hammer,3 games 3 wins


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 20, 2014)

I would think Borini on loan would be the ideal answer but it depends on who would come in and if he'd go. How long left on his contract?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 25, 2014)

Lallana has injured his knee in training and will be out for 6wks minimum.

Should've bought 2 players for 12.5m each rather than splash the cash on 1 player


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 25, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Lallana has injured his knee in training and will be out for 6wks minimum.

Should've bought 2 players for 12.5m each rather than splash the cash on 1 player 

Click to expand...

Just be thankful you got shut of that Donkey Carroll,he's out for 4 months.
Pinching a living that bloke.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 25, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Pinching a living that bloke.
		
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He'd break his thumb, if he did.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 25, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Just be thankful you got shut of that Donkey Carroll,he's out for 4 months.
Pinching a living that bloke.
		
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Is Carroll the new Darren Anderton aka "Sicknote"


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2014)

Lovren about to arrive for Â£20mil - appears there will be three more arrivals ( after Remy ) a left , right back ( young Spanish guy ) and a centre mid - rumours of a bid for Vidal and Shaqiri is still hanging around


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is Carroll the new Darren Anderton aka "Sicknote"
		
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Or maybe the new Kieron Dyer/Owen Hargreaves/Michael Owen/Jonathan Woodgate/RVP & I'm pretty confident you could add Jack Wilshere to the list soon aswell.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lovren about to arrive for Â£20mil - appears there will be three more arrivals ( after Remy ) a left , right back ( young Spanish guy ) and a centre mid - rumours of a bid for Vidal and Shaqiri is still hanging around
		
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Could be embarrassing if they turn you over in the 1st game of the season after you've taken their best players.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lovren about to arrive for Â£20mil - appears there will be three more arrivals *( after Remy *) a left , right back ( young Spanish guy ) and a centre mid - rumours of a bid for Vidal and Shaqiri is still hanging around
		
Click to expand...

Thankfully that deal has fell through, i wonder whose next on Rodgers list?

I certainly hope it's a Quality striker and not another "potential" signing.

Some of these rumours of players we're "in for" sounds a bit Everton like to me, remember Everton threw a bid in for Alan Smith when he was leaving Leeds for United. 

They were never going to sign him but they let the fans know they were in for and their was finances in place for a signing....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Thankfully that deal has fell through, i wonder whose next on Rodgers list?

I certainly hope it's a Quality striker and not another "potential" signing.

Some of these rumours of players we're "in for" sounds a bit Everton like to me, remember Everton threw a bid in for Alan Smith when he was leaving Leeds for United. 

They were never going to sign him but they let the fans know they were in for and their was finances in place for a signing....
		
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Appears injury has stopped  thw signing - shame as he would have scored goals for us


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## G1BB0 (Jul 27, 2014)

yup failed medical. Also heard the Shaqiri one. I reckon we are ok in midfield, just up top/defence needs strengthening.

Not far off a decent squad bar losing suarez.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 27, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Could be embarrassing if they turn you over in the 1st game of the season after you've taken their best players.
		
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I was thinking the same, a 4-0 win for Southampton would make a right old laugh.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			yup failed medical. Also heard the Shaqiri one. I reckon we are ok in midfield, just up top/defence needs strengthening.

Not far off a decent squad bar losing suarez.
		
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Definitely need to look at the defence after the finish to the season but the squad looking promising. Will be a great PL season I think.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			yup failed medical. Also heard the Shaqiri one. I reckon we are ok in midfield, just up top/defence needs strengthening.

Not far off a decent squad bar losing suarez.
		
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Think we need a creator in the middle -someone to provide that something extra - think Shaqiri would be a great signing


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

I'd say upto now it's quantity rather than quality, a left back and a top striker is a must.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

As with last year a lot of the strength will be in the teamwork , the tactics and work ethic - do need a little extra something in the squad but not too worried at the moment 

See Torres is getting sharper

https://vine.co/v/M0tEK02nVHb


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Back four would be my worry. I think midfield and forward line has enough about it although I still think the loss of Suarez and the goals he cored and created will be your biggest problem. I think there was a vulnerability at the back that got highlighted in the final weeks of the season and which will be apparent quickly in the CL without a decent signing or two


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Back four would be my worry. I think midfield and forward line has enough about it although I still think the loss of Suarez and the goals he cored and created will be your biggest problem. I think there was a vulnerability at the back that got highlighted in the final weeks of the season and which will be apparent quickly in the CL without a decent signing or two
		
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Just spent Â£20mil on a CB with a LB and RB in the pipeline to arrive


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just spent Â£20mil on a CB with a LB and RB in the pipeline to arrive
		
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It's in the pipeline. Nothing definite. Deals break down


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Back four would be my worry. I think midfield and forward line has enough about it although I still think the loss of Suarez and the goals he cored and created will be your biggest problem. I think there was a vulnerability at the back that got highlighted in the final weeks of the season and which will be apparent quickly in the CL without a decent signing or two
		
Click to expand...

I agree 100% regards Suarez but defensively I'm no too sure they're as bad as most think.

Because we play so aggressively going forward we do leave ourselves open to attack and that was the majority of what we conceded last year not just the last few games. Also, our defenders are expected to play football and a few times it was a few silly individual errors that cost us.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It's in the pipeline. Nothing definite. Deals break down
		
Click to expand...


A fee has been agreed , wages agreed , medical has been completed - just the unveiling to happen which is possibly happening at ten tonight


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just spent Â£20mil on a CB with a LB and RB in the pipeline to arrive
		
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Who out of all the CB's we've got do you see as the best pairing and which CB do you think can organise and take responsibility?

I see no one.

Spending Â£20m on Lovren will not be the answer to all our defensive issues.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree 100% regards Suarez but defensively I'm no too sure they're as bad as most think.

Because we play so aggressively going forward we do leave ourselves open to attack and that was the majority of what we conceded last year not just the last few games. Also, our defenders are expected to play football and a few times it was a few silly individual errors that cost us.
		
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Stuart

You may be right and clearly have a great understanding of your team. However I wonder how much the PL will have learned from your style and can't see how you'd play that way in the CL where a more measured approach may be needed. Every side makes defensive errors (Fulham made it an art form last year) but I think you lack a real leader at the back like an Adams or Bruce. Carragher was the man but now he's gone it seems to be missing a leader


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As with last year a lot of the strength will be in the teamwork , the tactics and work ethic - do need a little extra something in the squad but not too worried at the moment 

See Torres is getting sharper

https://vine.co/v/M0tEK02nVHb

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That was worse than Ronnie Rosenthal's that:rofl:

On a side note its actually sad to see what he's turned into since wearing that shirt.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Who out of all the CB's we've got do you see as the best pairing and which CB do you think can organise and take responsibility?

I see no one.

Spending Â£20m on Lovren will not be the answer to all our defensive issues.
		
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Think we will see a mix throughout the season but wouldn't be surprised to see Lovren and Agger start and those two certainly very vocal and organised but can also see both Sahko and Skittles having plenty of time on the pitch - the tactics will leave us exposed at times and a lot of responsibility will be down to players like Can , Henderson and Allen to fill the gaps ( especially when the fullbacks go forward ) 

BR will find the balance and will work out the strengths - we will sacrifice a bit at the back at times


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			A fee has been agreed , wages agreed , medical has been completed - just the unveiling to happen which is possibly happening at ten tonight
		
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Is the same source that said Suarez wasn't going anywhere


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Is the same source that said Suarez wasn't going anywhere 

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There was no source that said Suarez wasn't going anywhere - that was my opinion. 

The Lovren transfer is all over LFC TV and the official website.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/167331-dejan-lovren-seals-liverpool-transfer


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## SaintHacker (Jul 27, 2014)

Saints have confirmed it, Lovren is a Liverhampton player.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Stuart

You may be right and clearly have a great understanding of your team. However I wonder how much the PL will have learned from your style and can't see how you'd play that way in the CL where a more measured approach may be needed. Every side makes defensive errors (Fulham made it an art form last year) but I think you lack a real leader at the back like an Adams or Bruce. Carragher was the man but now he's gone it seems to be missing a leader
		
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The CL is a complete kettle of fish. Look at how United struggled throughout Europe and i know they won it in twice in 20 yrs but they should've done better. They carried on playing the same way in europe as they were domestically throughout the 90's and early '00s.

I'm not too sure if Rodgers can adapt but only time will tell.

I agree regards having a leader at the back, somebody who'll take responsibility is exactly what we need. On his recent signings you'd expect Sakho (Â£18m) and Lovren (Â£20m) to be the number 1 pairing and out of them 2 which one is that leader?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			we will sacrifice a bit at the back at times
		
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And that will get found out in the CL in particular.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And that will get found out in the CL in particular.
		
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Who knows as yet - could play three at the back in CL , or could just score more than we concede - a ball hasn't been kicked yet and seen us written of already. We try to play a very high tempo possession game with lots of pressure on the ball - that could be very suited to Europe football


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think we will see a mix throughout the season but wouldn't be surprised to see Lovren and Agger start and those two certainly very vocal and organised but can also see both Sahko and Skittles having plenty of time on the pitch - the tactics will leave us exposed at times and a lot of responsibility will be down to players like Can , Henderson and Allen to fill the gaps ( especially when the fullbacks go forward ) 

BR will find the balance and will work out the strengths - we will sacrifice a bit at the back at times
		
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Unless forced, swapping and changing CB's is dangerous tactics.

My point is out of all those CB's we've got theres nobody you can say is the leader/organiser.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Unless forced, swapping and changing CB's is dangerous tactics.

My point is out of all those CB's we've got theres nobody you can say is the leader/organiser.
		
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Agger is an organiser and a leader just needs to stay fit , Lovren also is - it's a squad game now and the CB's will be swapped dependant on the Oppo and comp.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was no source that said Suarez wasn't going anywhere - that was my opinion. 

The Lovren transfer is all over LFC TV and the official website.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/167331-dejan-lovren-seals-liverpool-transfer

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I was talking about the "rumoured" signings. :thup: Knew Lovren had gone through and don't think I ever mentioned him!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I was talking about the "rumoured" signings. :thup: Knew Lovren had gone through and don't think I ever mentioned him!
		
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Believe you responded to my post about spending Â£20mil on Lovren with the post - 

Deals break down etc etc etc and the Lovren deal was confirmed at 10pm tonight


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 27, 2014)

Would it not have made more business sense for the Liverpool owners to have sold Liverpool and bought Southampton.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			The CL is a complete kettle of fish. Look at how United struggled throughout Europe and i know they won it in twice in 20 yrs but they should've done better. They carried on playing the same way in europe as they were domestically throughout the 90's and early '00s.

I'm not too sure if Rodgers can adapt but only time will tell.

I agree regards having a leader at the back, somebody who'll take responsibility is exactly what we need. On his recent signings you'd expect Sakho (Â£18m) and Lovren (Â£20m) to be the number 1 pairing and out of them 2 which one is that leader?
		
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I agree that United were sometimes unable to adapt and it cost them, particularly in the knockout stages. Difficult for Rodgers after a stellar season in the PL but with no CL experience to draw on it will be interesting to see what he does. Not sure swapping to three centre backs in the CL if its a back 4 in the PL is necessarily a good idea. Players aren't always great at dealing with change and different formations as Chelsea and United under Moyes proved. Still think you need a Carra like figurehead. 

I liked the way Liverpool played last year as an armchair fan and would love to see you play the same way although as I mentioned the creativity and goals Suarez gave is a hard act to follow. I hope you can play the same way without perhaps the naivety (for want of a better word) at the back this time. Either way it'll be great to see them back in the CL


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## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Agger is an organiser and a leader just needs to stay fit , Lovren also is - it's a squad game now and the CB's will be swapped dependant on the Oppo and comp.
		
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Swapping and changing the back four will not breed a consistent solid defence that is desperately needed.

I agree re Agger but he's not reliable due to injuries so after spending Â£45m on 3 CB's in the last 12 months, we should get rid.

I like Agger btw.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Would it not have made more business sense for the Liverpool owners to have sold Liverpool and bought Southampton.
		
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Not really - unless you think Southampton can be bought for under Â£60mil


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Swapping and changing the back four will not breed a consistent solid defence that is desperately needed.

I agree re Agger but he's not reliable due to injuries so after spending Â£45m on 3 CB's in the last 12 months, we should get rid.

I like Agger btw.
		
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The amount of games we will need to play this season the back four will need to change a number of times - the way BR drills the players the should be very interchangeable - it's a very fluid system we play anyway and even during the solid Rafa years we were constantly mixing the back four - Lovren will certainly play a lot more , will depend on who he strikes up the best understanding with. 

I too like Agger - perfect for BR tactics - just made of glass


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 27, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just spent Â£20mil on a CB with a LB and RB in the pipeline to arrive
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Believe you responded to my post about spending Â£20mil on Lovren with the post - 

Deals break down etc etc etc and the Lovren deal was confirmed at 10pm tonight
		
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That was the post I responded to. Nothing to do with Lovren who I knew had signed as its all over SSN.


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## G1BB0 (Jul 27, 2014)

what needs to be pointed out is we needed a better squad not only to maintain a PL challenge but to hopefully compete in the cups and by that I mean domestic and CL. Thats a lot of games and last season when we had a couple of key injuries we lacked depth in the squad.

I agree a couple more top quality players would be ideal but I also feel we can still compete with current players. Plenty of service to sturridge and goals coming from midfuield will hopefully make up for the massive loss of Suarez.... time will tell but my cup is half full right now and filling more each day


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 28, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			what needs to be pointed out is we needed a better squad not only to maintain a PL challenge but to hopefully compete in the cups and by that I mean domestic and CL. Thats a lot of games and last season when we had a couple of key injuries we lacked depth in the squad.

I agree a couple more top quality players would be ideal but I also feel we can still compete with current players. Plenty of service to sturridge and goals coming from midfuield will hopefully make up for the massive loss of Suarez.... time will tell but my cup is half full right now and filling more each day 

Click to expand...

I can see plenty of reasons to be optimistic. Not quite sure you'll hit the same PL heights but the European adventure after your CL hiatus will be interesting


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpool bid Â£15m for Southamptons tea lady.


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2014)

Rumours that Liverpool are preparing a Â£15m bid for Gary Ballance after hearing how well hes performed at Southampton


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## One Planer (Jul 28, 2014)

fundy said:



			Rumours that Liverpool are preparing a Â£15m bid for Gary Ballance after hearing how well hes performed at Southampton 

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:rofl:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 28, 2014)

Any truth in the rumour that Liverpool pulled out of the Loic Remy deal because they found out he doesn't play for Southampton?


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## Rooter (Jul 28, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Any truth in the rumour that Liverpool pulled out of the Loic Remy deal because they found out he doesn't play for Southampton?
		
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completely true, Brendan Rodgers got an envelope full of Southampton vouchers for xmas and thats all he is allowed to use to buy new players.


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## londonlewis (Jul 28, 2014)

It's not looking too bad if your goal was to buy all the players from a team that finished 8th in the premiership last season.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			It's not looking too bad if your goal was to buy all the players from a team that finished 8th in the premiership last season.
		
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It's certainly a new strategy. 
Wonder what the owners are expecting after spending so heavily.


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It's certainly a new strategy. 
Wonder what the owners are expecting after spending so heavily.
		
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Theyve hardly spent heavily when you take into account the Suarez sale? Breakeven on fees and a small increase in wage bill so far?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

fundy said:



			Theyve hardly spent heavily when you take into account the Suarez sale? Breakeven on fees and a small increase in wage bill so far?
		
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They've still spent heavily regardless of sales. Pretty much like Spurs after selling Bale.
Same as Chelsea,Made a lot of money on sales but also spent big.


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## Conman85 (Jul 28, 2014)

The Liverpool team looks rotten this year, think it will be a case of enjoy the CL this time as you won't be back for a while.

still time for them to change things, but seems like the Bale spurs thing all over again.


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## MadAdey (Jul 28, 2014)

I still laugh about the crystal balls that football fans have. Transfer endow still open, some rumors of a big signing coming in (falcao & Vidal just 2 rumors). Liverpool got written off this time last year too and people were saying that they would be lucky to get into the CL. Then at Xmas that turned into they would not be able to maintain a challenge all the way. Then people said they will struggle with such a small squad this year, but the squad is growing. I do not think Rogers is fergie, but I wonder  if he has that fergie touch that gets the most out of players.

The only certainties next year are City and Chelsea will be title contenders and United will not be as bad, any thing else is just going to be a case of suck it and see.


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## MadAdey (Jul 28, 2014)

Conman85 said:



			The Liverpool team looks rotten this year, think it will be a case of enjoy the CL this time as you won't be back for a while.

still time for them to change things, but seems like the Bale spurs thing all over again.
		
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Spurs where a one man band though, but Liverpool did not totally rely on Suarez. Sturridge and Sterling are still there, last season was so good because all 3 of them worked well together. Rogers has now brought in 2 creative goal scoring midfielders and a fast skillful winger. So attacking wise he now has Sturridge and Lambert up top, Can, Lallana and Couthino creating and scoring, with Sterling and Markovic giving width and pace to the team. Assaidi and Borini are back, not sure how much they offer though if they stay.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I still laugh about the crystal balls that football fans have. Transfer endow still open, some rumors of a big signing coming in (falcao & Vidal just 2 rumors). Liverpool got written off this time last year too and people were saying that they would be lucky to get into the CL. Then at Xmas that turned into they would not be able to maintain a challenge all the way. Then people said they will struggle with such a small squad this year, but the squad is growing. I do not think Rogers is fergie, but I wonder  if he has that fergie touch that gets the most out of players.

The only certainties next year are City and Chelsea will be title contenders and United will not be as bad, any thing else is just going to be a case of suck it and see.
		
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Vidal & Falcao sorry mate but rumours are as close as it will get. 
Not long now & we'll see how our predictions go.


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## MadAdey (Jul 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Vidal & Falcao sorry mate but rumours are as close as it will get. 
Not long now & we'll see how our predictions go.
		
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My point was rumors. But from what I have read is Juve have basically said make your move now or don't bother as they want to get their transfer business out of the way. Falcao, more likely to have some substance to it rather than Vidal as who has the cash to buy him and can offer CL football. Apparently Vidal has said he will only move for a team in the CL, so that rules United out. Real and Barca have no money left. Liverpool on the other hand have the cash, CL football and he is guaranteed a starting position every game, maybe that might make it an attractive move for him.

Still not exactly carried away though, as they are rumors, but rumours always start somewhere.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm happy for us to be written off by people already - has been done before and proven people wrong :thup:

Still plenty of time yet to get a few more signings into the club and certainly have faith in BR to get the best out of the team


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

I'd be very surprised to see Falcau move to Liverpool. He wouldn't come cheap. 
Regardless of what as been written I still think UTD will attract the Big players over Liverpool.
Players will surely look at the bigger picture,it's only one season out of the CL & then they could seriously challenge for everything with UTD. 
Top players join clubs to make history,not ear about it


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## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm happy for us to be written off by people already - has been done before and proven people wrong :thup:

Still plenty of time yet to get a few more signings into the club and certainly have faith in BR to get the best out of the team
		
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Without getting too drawn into this debate. I'd suggest you've been written of and surprised people a lot less often than when it's been "our year" and still not tasted championship success. 

But it am hardly one to talk as saints are doing all they can to get back the THE Championship!


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm happy for us to be written off by people already - has been done before and proven people wrong :thup:

Still plenty of time yet to get a few more signings into the club and certainly have faith in BR to get the best out of the team
		
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Been written off yes,but you haven't won the league since Jesus was a lad :thup:
As long as you're happy with the way Brenda is splashing the cash. 
Maybe he's already lined up to be the next Southampton boss Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£:rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Without getting too drawn into this debate. I'd suggest you've been written of and surprised people a lot less often than when it's been "our year" and still not tasted championship success. 

But it am hardly one to talk as saints are doing all they can to get back the THE Championship!
		
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Never been one of the "our year" brigade because I realise how hard it is to win it but certainly remember being written off a number of times in the past and surprised a fair few - especially in the CL in the last decade. 

Certainly going to be an interesting season


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## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Never been one of the "our year" brigade because I realise how hard it is to win it but certainly remember being written off a number of times in the past and surprised a fair few - especially in the CL in the last decade. 

Certainly going to be an interesting season
		
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i dont think hink many people write a club the size as Liverpool of in the cups. To your credit you've still piled them up. But there were a large amount of people in the our year brigade. And that was in reference to the league. Not a cup which as has been proven many times can be won by many clubs that you'd not fancy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			i dont think hink many people write a club the size as Liverpool of in the cups. To your credit you've still piled them up. But there were a large amount of people in the our year brigade. And that was in reference to the league. Not a cup which as has been proven many times can be won by many clubs that you'd not fancy.
		
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It won't be "our year" this year or the year after etc and it won't be for a while with this squads that Xity and Chelsea can get


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## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It won't be "our year" this year or the year after etc and it won't be for a while with this squads that Xity and Chelsea can get
		
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Id suggest many teams have finished above you since those two teams had money. The sugar daddies is an easy excuse IMO. You came close last year but for a few mistakes so it can be done with those teams around.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Id suggest many teams have finished above you since those two teams had money. The sugar daddies is an easy excuse IMO. You came close last year but for a few mistakes so it can be done with those teams around.
		
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It's only been done by Man UTD 

Since Abramovich arrived three clubs have won the PL - City , Chelsea and UTD. Two with sugar daddies and one is prob the second richest and biggest clubs in the world.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Id suggest many teams have finished above you since those two teams had money. The sugar daddies is an easy excuse IMO. You came close last year but for a few mistakes so it can be done with those teams around.
		
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Agree with this. It's just an easy excuse to fall back on when they fail. Funny that they criticise Arsenal for not winning trophies tho,aren't they also competing with Chelsea & City? 
UTD haven't done too bad since the Chelsea & City takeovers.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's only been done by Man UTD 

Since Abramovich arrived three clubs have won the PL - City , Chelsea and UTD. Two with sugar daddies and one is prob the second richest and biggest clubs in the world.
		
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Since the Premier league started only 5 teams have won it in total.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpool will (or could be a force) in the cups although what credence they give the League Cup is open to conjecture. If they wanted to play good sides and win it they'd have a great shout. Whether they can compete in the PL and CL is debatable and I'm happy to stick my head above the parapet and predict Liverpool will not finish top 3 and will be CL final 8 (a pretty decent performance if you're realistic)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2014)

Looks like PSG need to sell some players to enable them to purchase Di Maria 

Possibly players like Lucas , Pastore , Lavezzi and Cavani being available - one or two of those would be very exciting


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Since the Premier league started only 5 teams have won it in total.
		
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Stengthens the point then doesn't it. 

3 with billionaires, one of the others the 2/3 rd richest club in the world.

Out of interest coming from Barnsley, how did you "stumble" upon Chelsea?


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## Conman85 (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm merely pointing out to whoever started this thread that it's not looking that good - with Suarez gone, Gerrard a year older and I have a feeling Sterling won't be as good this year......que humble pie! It's not looking great, Liverpool finished second last year, instead of showing ambition and pushing on they have signed poorly IMO. Don't get me wrong I think Llana could be decent, but the rest you have to ask why at the price? The Llana price is a joke when you see what Kroos got picked up for. Real, Barca, Chelsea, even Atletico to name a few have all went out and made some top signings to push forward, this is what liverpool should have done, they've spent big on potential and we all know what happened last time, Andy Carroll anyone? I think for the money they got in things could have been so much better.

As far as Falcao goes, from what I hear its a done deal to Real, they just need to offload Di Maria to PSG! Cavani moving to utd could be holding that one up!


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## davemc1 (Jul 29, 2014)

Never fails to amaze me how many other clubs' fans post about Liverpool, be it positive or negative. Other clubs hardly get a mention.

I 'get' the obsession, I was born here, live here and supported them all my life. 

What's your excuse?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Stengthens the point then doesn't it. 

3 with billionaires, one of the others the 2/3 rd richest club in the world.

Out of interest coming from Barnsley, how did you "stumble" upon Chelsea?
		
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Still a cop out,Liverpool have spent enough over the years & you know it. Finished 2nd last year & spending big now, so unless you were a one man team you should be kicking on.

Oh & my grandad was a Chelsea fan:thup:


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## richy (Jul 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Still a cop out,Liverpool have spent enough over the years & you know it. Finished 2nd last year & spending big now, so unless you were a one man team you should be kicking on.

*Oh & my grandad was a Chelsea fan*:thup:
		
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Oh, that old chestnut?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2014)

richy said:



			Oh, that old chestnut?
		
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:rofl: afraid so


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Still a cop out,Liverpool have spent enough over the years & you know it. Finished 2nd last year & spending big now, so unless you were a one man team you should be kicking on.

Oh & my grandad was a Chelsea fan:thup:
		
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No doubt, Liverpool should have won it over the last 20 odd years, but we have consistently spent lots of money (a bit like Spurs) and never had the "benefits" of the billionaires sharp injections of cash, that have been able to shortcut success. Every billionaire that has massively invested over the last 20 odd years has won the league - cheapens it somewhat.

Did you not go with your parents team, most do, although it depends on who they support, I suppose.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			No doubt, Liverpool should have won it over the last 20 odd years, but we have consistently spent lots of money (a bit like Spurs) and never had the "benefits" of the billionaires sharp injections of cash, that have been able to shortcut success. Every billionaire that has massively invested over the last 20 odd years has won the league - cheapens it somewhat.

Did you not go with your parents team, most do, although it depends on who they support, I suppose.
		
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No my Dad is a Barnsley fan,I do go to the odd game with him but it's hard work tbh. 
Haven't been to a Chelsea game for a couple of seasons either.
Anything else I can help you with matey?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			No doubt, Liverpool should have won it over the last 20 odd years, but we have consistently spent lots of money (a bit like Spurs) and never had the "benefits" of the billionaires sharp injections of cash, that have been able to shortcut success. Every billionaire that has massively invested over the last 20 odd years has won the league - cheapens it somewhat.

Did you not go with your parents team, most do, although it depends on who they support, I suppose.
		
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QPR


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## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

davemc1 said:



			Never fails to amaze me how many other clubs' fans post about Liverpool, be it positive or negative. Other clubs hardly get a mention.

I 'get' the obsession, I was born here, live here and supported them all my life. 

What's your excuse?
		
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this is is a thread about Liverpool so of course people are talking about them. They've also been more active than most so more subject matter. Pretty sure David Moyes had a thread all to himself from the moment he was appointed til he was sacked and plenty of pool fans were on there too.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			No my Dad is a Barnsley fan,I do go to the odd game with him but it's hard work tbh. 
Haven't been to a Chelsea game for a couple of seasons either.
Anything else I can help you with matey?
		
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Do you go to Liverpool games instead, just to boo us?


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Every billionaire that has massively invested over the last 20 odd years has won the league
		
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Cardiff City? 

Vincent Tan's net worth is Â£1.3bn. They haven't won the league.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Cardiff City? 

Vincent Tan's net worth is Â£1.3bn. They haven't won the league.
		
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That billion is how much Chelsea have spent in the last ten years

It's more than having a rich owner - it's having one that will spend limitless amount on players - Chelsea , City , PSG


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Cardiff City? 

Vincent Tan's net worth is Â£1.3bn. They haven't won the league.
		
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He hasn't "massively" invested.

He does win the worst dressed chairman though.


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

so is the general consensus that spending vast amounts of money guarantees success? 

And does buying success guarantee it more than world class management / coaching / development etc...


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			so is the general consensus that spending vast amounts of money guarantees success? 

And does buying success guarantee it more than world class management / coaching / development etc...
		
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Examples for:-

1. Chelsea, City - spending 2-4 times what your rivals have over a period of 2-3 years (initially).

2. Wenger was a world class manager, coach and had a strong development ethos.

Example 1 - how many trophies in the last 10 years.

Example 2 - 1 trophy in the last 10 years.

It may be different in other leagues. See Athletico Madrid, but will they win more trophies in the next few years, we'll have to wait and see.


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Examples for:-

1. Chelsea, City - spending 2-4 times what your rivals have over a period of 2-3 years (initially).

2. Wenger was a world class manager, coach and had a strong development ethos.

Example 1 - how many trophies in the last 10 years.

Example 2 - 1 trophy in the last 10 years.

It may be different in other leagues. See Athletico Madrid, but will they win more trophies in the next few years, we'll have to wait and see.
		
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Why have you left out Man Utd who have won more trophies than anyone in the Premiership over the last decade or two. Which category do they sit in?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Why have you left out Man Utd who have won more trophies than anyone in the Premiership over the last decade or two. Which category do they sit in?
		
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Spent a lot of money but have also brought players through 

Made use of a lot of good commercial deals 

Man Utd have spent a lot of money also


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## MegaSteve (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			He does win the worst dressed chairman though.
		
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I believe Mr Sullivan offers a strong challenge for that accolade...


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spent a lot of money but have also brought players through 

Made use of a lot of good commercial deals 

Man Utd have spent a lot of money also
		
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that doesn't exactly answer my question. thanks though


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2014)

Rumours of Levezzi Â£18m from PSG. Now he does look a good player from what I've seen of him.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Why have you left out Man Utd who have won more trophies than anyone in the Premiership over the last decade or two. Which category do they sit in?
		
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Example 1.5 Lots of money allied to great development. Slightly unusual in the way that they had 1/2 team come through together who stayed around for 10-15 years. Also a manager in place for over 25 years - also very unusual.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			I believe Mr Sullivan offers a strong challenge for that accolade...
		
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Only in winter, with the Trarist general look.

Vincent rocks the James Bond Villain all year round.


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Example 1.5 Lots of money allied to great development. Slightly unusual in the way that they had 1/2 team come through together who stayed around for 10-15 years. Also a manager in place for over 25 years - also very unusual.
		
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Ok, so does money guarantee success or is it coaching and development?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Do you go to Liverpool games instead, just to boo us? 

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Change the record mate,gets boring listening to you playing the victims all the time


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Ok, so does money guarantee success or is it coaching and development?
		
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Nothing "guarantees" success but lots of money to be able to buy lots of high quality players gives a team an enhanced chance to buy the better players and create a better team to have a better chance of success. Money enables success to happen quicker


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Nothing "guarantees" success but lots of money to be able to buy lots of high quality players gives a team an enhanced chance to buy the better players and create a better team to have a better chance of success. Money enables success to happen quicker
		
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Have you ever watched Zoolander? Your response sounds like the quote below. 

Derek: Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you and your do whatever it takes, ruin as many peoples lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Have you ever watched Zoolander? Your response sounds like the quote below. 

Derek: Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you and your do whatever it takes, ruin as many peoples lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose, or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way.

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You asked a question and i gave an answer ? Is my response not valid then ?


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You asked a question and i gave an answer ? Is my response not valid then ?
		
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Do you not see the similarity between your response and the quote I've shared? 

Earlier posts suggested that the only way to be successful was to throw money at players, which suggests that people felt money does buy success. 
However, I can no longer work out whether you believe money buys you success or not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Do you not see the similarity between your response and the quote I've shared? 

Earlier posts suggested that the only way to be successful was to throw money at players, which suggests that people felt money does buy success. 
However, I can no longer work out whether you believe money buys you success or not.
		
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There is a word missing in that post that you used earlier - "*guarantee*" - hence my response that nothing is guaranteed

There is no doubt that both City and Chelsea have won the Prem because of the money spent by both of them - they have become success because of the money and the players bought. 

Right now the way to be successful is to get the best players - either buying them ( the quick way ) or developing them and hope they dont get poached ( not happened in the prem though ) - clubs dont develop all their own players because it just doesnt work "quick" enough - so right now to gain success teams are buying the best players - so the more money a team has the more "better" players they can get.


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There is a word missing in that post that you used earlier - "*guarantee*" - hence my response that nothing is guaranteed

There is no doubt that both City and Chelsea have won the Prem because of the money spent by both of them - they have become success because of the money and the players bought. 

Right now the way to be successful is to get the best players - either buying them ( the quick way ) or developing them and hope they dont get poached ( not happened in the prem though ) - clubs dont develop all their own players because it just doesnt work "quick" enough - so right now to gain success teams are buying the best players - so the more money a team has the more "better" players they can get.
		
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I don't think anyone is doubting that the team with the better players will win Phil. 

The original question was whether money guarantees success or whether coaching and good management does. 

Let's take Leeds as an example. They threw money into their club like it was going out of fashion, yet they had an unsuccessful year, didn't qualify for Europe, failed to generate the revenue necessary to maintain their outgoings and pretty much went bust. I appreciate they didn't have an owner who could keep throwing money at the problem until they got it right. 

I asked an open question in response to a number of people who had made claim that the only way to be a successful football club (successful in terms of winning trophies) was to spend, spend, spend. 

These are the figures from January 2014 in terms of spend year on year. Interestingly Everton and Arsenal are near the bottom. Southampton will be very near the bottom now as well. 

These figures show that Chelsea is paying twice as much and Man City almost 4 times as much as Man Utd for their success. In the last 5 years the number of trophies won by these clubs is as follows; 

Man Utd 5 (2x league, 1x league cup,3x community shield
Man City 5 (2x league, 1x FA cup, 1x league cup, 1x community shield) 
Chelsea 5 (1x prem, 2x FA cup, 1x champ league, 1x Europa League)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			I don't think anyone is doubting that the team with the better players will win Phil. 

*The original question was whether money guarantees success or whether coaching and good management does.* 

Let's take Leeds as an example. They threw money into their club like it was going out of fashion, yet they had an unsuccessful year, didn't qualify for Europe, failed to generate the revenue necessary to maintain their outgoings and pretty much went bust. I appreciate they didn't have an owner who could keep throwing money at the problem until they got it right. 

I asked an open question in response to a number of people who had made claim that the only way to be a successful football club (successful in terms of winning trophies) was to spend, spend, spend. 

These are the figures from January 2014 in terms of spend year on year. Interestingly Everton and Arsenal are near the bottom. Southampton will be very near the bottom now as well. 

These figures show that Chelsea is paying twice as much and Man City almost 4 times as much as Man Utd for their success. In the last 5 years the number of trophies won by these clubs is as follows; 

Man Utd 5 (2x league, 1x league cup,3x community shield
Man City 5 (2x league, 1x FA cup, 1x league cup, 1x community shield) 
Chelsea 5 (1x prem, 2x FA cup, 1x champ league, 1x Europa League)






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And as i said - nothing guarantees winning - your table shows that the top three teams with the spending per season are the ones winning the trophies. 

Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed - they have spent over the years where as both Chelsea and City have spent quickly over a shorter period.


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And as i said - nothing guarantees winning - your table shows that the top three teams with the spending per season are the ones winning the trophies. 

Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed - they have spent over the years where as both Chelsea and City have spent quickly over a shorter period.
		
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Liverpool and Tottenham have spent more than Man Utd. How many trophies have they won in the last 5 years?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Liverpool and Tottenham have spent more than Man Utd. How many trophies have they won in the last 5 years?
		
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Did you not read my last paragraph 

*Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed *

Man Utd have been able to add to a successful squad as opposed to trying to build one - they have had a very strong squad of players for nearly 2 decades possibly more - then when needed they just add one to it or a Â£30 mil replacement here and there.

Right now they are going to start a rebuilding phase hence they have already started spending big money because their squad has dropped


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did you not read my last paragraph 

*Man Utd have built upon success previously gained in the 90's by purchasing big money players when needed *

Man Utd have been able to add to a successful squad as opposed to trying to build one - they have had a very strong squad of players for nearly 2 decades possibly more - then when needed they just add one to it or a Â£30 mil replacement here and there.

Right now they are going to start a rebuilding phase hence they have already started spending big money because their squad has dropped
		
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Did you not read my last question? 

*Liverpool and Tottenham have spent more than Man Utd. How many trophies have they won in the last 5 years?
*
I'll answer it for you;
Liverpool - 1 league cup (Â£310 million spent)
Tottenham - none (Â£311 million spent)

Cracking!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Did you not read my last question? 

*Liverpool and Tottenham have spent more than Man Utd. How many trophies have they won in the last 5 years?
*
I'll answer it for you;
Liverpool - 1 league cup (Â£310 million spent)
Tottenham - none (Â£311 million spent)

Cracking!!!
		
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If only everything was black and white 

As i have said a number of times - nothing guarantees success and not sure anyone has suggest that.


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If only everything was black and white 

As i have said a number of times - nothing guarantees success and not sure anyone has suggest that.
		
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Liverbirdie '_Every billionaire that has massively invested over the last 20 odd years has won the league' ....... 

_


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Liverbirdie '_Every billionaire that has massively invested over the last 20 odd years has won the league' ....... 

_

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So where in there does he say that spending "guarantees success" ?!

Billionaires that have massively invested in the last 20 years - The City Sheik , Abramovich and Walker - constant investment for massive sums - all three won the title - so his statement is factually correct


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## londonlewis (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So where in there does he say that spending "guarantees success" ?!

Billionaires that have massively invested in the last 20 years - The City Sheik , Abramovich and Walker - constant investment for massive sums - all three won the title - so his statement is factually correct
		
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i was was reading between the lines phil, you should know something about that


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			i was was reading between the lines phil, you should know something about that
		
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Should I ? 

A basically no one has said money guarantees success and LB post was factually correct - is that reading between the lines or basically just reading the posts that have been made.


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			i was was reading between the lines phil, you should know something about that
		
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Liverpool got Rogers , spent as much as they want and win nothink because the manager is rubbish as he showed last year , played all that pretty football and won a big zero , need to spent on a new manager ......................hang on , no more money as they have spent the LS money and there is no LS , so its mid table for them next season ................EYG


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

United were a different class. Several sides built and dismantled by Fergie without doubt the best manager football has seen and yes I do include the likes of Shankley and Paisley in that. As for the others, yes, money does buy success. City and Chelsea have proved that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Liverpool got Rogers , spent as much as they want and win nothink because the manager is rubbish as he showed last year , played all that pretty football and won a big zero , need to spent on a new manager ......................hang on , no more money as they have spent the LS money and there is no LS , so its mid table for them next season ................EYG
		
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Are you actually being serious ? 

Didn't Rodgers manage his team to finish above Arsenal and also helped pummel them in the league game ? 

So Rodgers is rubbish for finishing only second what does that make the manager who finished 4th

And when have we been able to spend "as much as we want"


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			United were a different class. Several sides built and dismantled by Fergie without doubt the best manager football has seen and yes I do include the likes of Shankley and Paisley in that. As for the others, yes, money does buy success. City and Chelsea have proved that.
		
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Always a doubt when it comes to statements about the best ever 

In 9 years Paisley won 6 titles ( second spot the other 3 years ) 
3 European Cups
Plus a number of other trophies


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Always a doubt when it comes to statements about the best ever 

In 9 years Paisley won 6 titles ( second spot the other 3 years ) 
3 European Cups
Plus a number of other trophies
		
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Still no comparison to United though is it. Impressive and dominating as Liverpool were in the 70's and 80's United under Fergie were a different class. I don't expect you to agree with that fact but the figures are there for all to see however you dress it up. It was what Fergie did and got out of the sides he had that made United so different to Chelsea and City coming along and buying the title. Mind you wasn't that the accusation levelled at Blackburn too


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Always a doubt when it comes to statements about the best ever 









In 9 years Paisley won 6 titles ( second spot the other 3 years ) 
3 European Cups
Plus a number of other trophies
		
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See Sourness in our pro shop yesterday , Sir Alec is the best for winning and wenger the best all round ,


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you actually being serious ? 

Didn't Rodgers manage his team to finish above Arsenal and also helped pummel them in the league game ? 

So Rodgers is rubbish for finishing only second what does that make the manager who finished 4th



Trophies count and Rodgers has none , Wenger has lots plus the FA Cup where we beat Liverpool , nuff said
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Still no comparison to United though is it. Impressive and dominating as Liverpool were in the 70's and 80's United under Fergie were a different class. I don't expect you to agree with that fact but the figures are there for all to see however you dress it up. It was what Fergie did and got out of the sides he had that made United so different to Chelsea and City coming along and buying the title. Mind you wasn't that the accusation levelled at Blackburn too
		
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Why is it different ? Liverpool dominated in the 70's and 80's and Man UTD did in the 90's and 00's but we just didn't dominate in a England we dominated in Europe - 3 European Cup wins in 9 years from one manager - something Ferguson can't touch - a major title every season he was manager. 

Imagine what he could have achieved if he stayed on for 26 years - immeasurable. 

Fergusons number will be more - he stayed for 19 more seasons. Would certainly expect a bit more European Trophies

We can go around all night but Paisley is always going to be up there


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you actually being serious ? 

Didn't Rodgers manage his team to finish above Arsenal and also helped pummel them in the league game ? 

So Rodgers is rubbish for finishing only second what does that make the manager who finished 4th



Trophies count and Rodgers has none , Wenger has lots plus the FA Cup where we beat Liverpool , nuff said
		
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Wenger has won one trophy in a decade ?! 

Do you now count the FA Cup above the league ! 

For such a wonderful manager I would expect Wenger to clearly has his team miles above Rodgers - why didn't that happen ?
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			Wenger has won one trophy in a decade ?! 

Do you now count the FA Cup above the league ! 

For such a wonderful manager I would expect Wenger to clearly has his team miles above Rodgers - why didn't that happen ?
		
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Liverpool won 1 trophy in 8 years and that was the league cup , Rogers is just a boy manager who got lucky with LS scoring goals for fun , but he is gone now and we shall see mid table for Liverpool till they get a top manager and thats a if as they have no more money to spent
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool won 1 trophy in 8 years and that was the league cup , Rogers is just a boy manager who got lucky with LS scoring goals for fun , but he is gone now and we shall see mid table for Liverpool till they get a top manager and thats a if as they have no more money to spent
		
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Yet in the decade we have won three and Wenger won 1 and hasn't even won the biggest trophy in club football - in fact just one final

One trophy in ten years is a very poor return for a manager you claim to be the best ever ?
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it different ? Liverpool dominated in the 70's and 80's and Man UTD did in the 90's and 00's but we just didn't dominate in a England we dominated in Europe - 3 European Cup wins in 9 years from one manager - something Ferguson can't touch - a major title every season he was manager. 

Imagine what he could have achieved if he stayed on for 26 years - immeasurable. 

Fergusons number will be more - he stayed for 19 more seasons. Would certainly expect a bit more European Trophies

We can go around all night but Paisley is always going to be up there
		
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Fergie got more because he stayed longer. Maybe, just maybe, if Liverpool hadn't had so many managers over the last few years and given someone the same length of time Wenger has had they'll have won more and challenged the United numbers. Anyhoo this has precious little to do with the transfer market and taking this off on a tangent


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			Yet in the decade we have won three and Wenger won 1 and hasn't even won the biggest trophy in club football - in fact just one final

One trophy in ten years is a very poor return for a manager you claim to be the best ever ?
		
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One of the best all round managers , last time liverpool won the league was 1990 , thats almost 25 years ago and with rogers in control it be another 25 years , liverpool aint a big club no more thats why sanchez choose Arsenal and a proven manager not a boy manager
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			One of the best all round managers , last time liverpool won the league was 1990 , thats almost 25 years ago and with rogers in control it be another 25 years , liverpool aint a big club no more thats why sanchez choose Arsenal and a proven manager not a boy manager
		
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Sanchez decide to chose the City of London

How many CL has Wenger won seeing as you claim he is one of the best all round managers - answer = zero

We may not of won since 1990 but we have still won a great deal more than Arsenal with Wenger or any manager.
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			Sanchez decide to chose the City of London

How many CL has Wenger won seeing as you claim he is one of the best all round managers - answer = zero

We may not of won since 1990 but we have still won a great deal more than Arsenal with Wenger or any manager.
		
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But Liverpool still lag behind United over the last 20 years. Arsenal won a PL unbeaten which for all the CL success is a feat never going to be repeated anytime soon. If you were speak to Wenger, he would say that Arsenal could win the CL anyway given the resources, Barca, Real and Madrid have to throw at it
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			Sanchez decide to chose the City of London

How many CL has Wenger won seeing as you claim he is one of the best all round managers - answer = zero


Liverpool are not a top table club , not been for a long time , need a bigger stadium but know they dare not make the move as look what happen to Arsenal when they moved from highbury , no money  to spent and they went from winning trophies every season to nothink for 9 years and what Wenger done in those years without the money to spent was a skill in itself , kept them up there , champions league every season and with a bit of luck could have won a trophy or 2 but now due to him they are in a strong position to push on once again and add to the FA Cup , sure Man City and Chelsea have money as long as the owners keep giving them money , but everythink comes to an end then what ............thats why i say he is one of very  best all round managers of all time as its not just the football side , players diets , just ask the famous back 4 and there is the money side and bringing on young players .............i am keen to see him to well once again and i think he will .................EYG
		
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Click to expand...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			But Liverpool still lag behind United over the last 20 years. Arsenal won a PL unbeaten which for all the CL success is a feat never going to be repeated anytime soon. If you were speak to Wenger, he would say that Arsenal could win the CL anyway given the resources, Barca, Real and Madrid have to throw at it
		
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Liverpool , Porto have both managed to win the CL without the resources of others that you mention - even further back other unfaniced teams have either won or got to the final 

When it comes to success two clubs stand head and shoulders above the rest by a fair distance and one of those isn't Arsenal 

Wenger has had a decent amount of success but wouldn't put him in the top ten of the best managers. The best managers don't go decade without winning honours
		
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## Andy808 (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





HomerJSimpson said:



			Liverpool , Porto have both managed to win the CL without the resources of others that you mention - even further back other unfaniced teams have either won or got to the final 

When it comes to success two clubs stand head and shoulders above the rest by a fair distance and one of those isn't Arsenal 

Wenger has had a decent amount of success but wouldn't put him in the top ten of the best managers. The best managers don't go decade without winning honours
		
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Give it up now Phil. They are goading you and you're falling for it mate. 
LFC has a good manager who, with some time, could be great. The team is coming on nicely and this bunch of clowns are trying to wind you up mate. 
It's time for a "whatever" and move on buddy.
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			Sanchez decide to chose the City of London

How many CL has Wenger won seeing as you claim he is one of the best all round managers - answer = zero


Liverpool are not a top table club , not been for a long time , need a bigger stadium but know they dare not make the move as look what happen to Arsenal when they moved from highbury , no money  to spent and they went from winning trophies every season to nothink for 9 years and what Wenger done in those years without the money to spent was a skill in itself , kept them up there , champions league every season and with a bit of luck could have won a trophy or 2 but now due to him they are in a strong position to push on once again and add to the FA Cup , sure Man City and Chelsea have money as long as the owners keep giving them money , but everythink comes to an end then what ............thats why i say he is one of very  best all round managers of all time as its not just the football side , players diets , just ask the famous back 4 and there is the money side and bringing on young players .............i am keen to see him to well once again and i think he will .................EYG
		
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Will tackle each point separately 

1. We don't need a new stadium when we can redevelop Anfield and will be doing to keep the same atmosphere - Arsenals stadium is lovely - shame the atmosphere is soulless and full of corporate - not to mention the most expensive in the county to watch 

2. When you suggest Rodgers was rubbish and Wenger was better I mentioned the league places last season and your response was - trophies count ?! So Wenger went a decade winning nothing 

3. You justify that he is the best all round because of "players diet" ?! Haven't you suffered more injuries than most teams and have had to bring in someone ?! 

4. Top table side - does that mean top of the table or top 4 etc ?!
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





HomerJSimpson said:



			Liverpool , Porto have both managed to win the CL without the resources of others that you mention - even further back other unfaniced teams have either won or got to the final 

When it comes to success two clubs stand head and shoulders above the rest by a fair distance and one of those isn't Arsenal 

Wenger has had a decent amount of success but wouldn't put him in the top ten of the best managers. The best managers don't go decade without winning honours
		
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Take the Liverpool glasses off. Are you not even going to acknowledge the Invincible achievement Wenger managed then.
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

Andy808 said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Give it up now Phil. They are goading you and you're falling for it mate. 
LFC has a good manager who, with some time, could be great. The team is coming on nicely and this bunch of clowns are trying to wind you up mate. 
It's time for a "whatever" and move on buddy.
		
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It's ok mate :thup:

Think Rodgers is doing a very good job - still got a lot of learning to do and certainly needs to improve in areas 

Looking forward to the season :whoo:
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





HomerJSimpson said:



			Liverpool , Porto have both managed to win the CL without the resources of others that you mention - even further back other unfaniced teams have either won or got to the final 

When it comes to success two clubs stand head and shoulders above the rest by a fair distance and one of those isn't Arsenal 

Wenger has had a decent amount of success but wouldn't put him in the top ten of the best managers. The best managers don't go decade without winning honours
		
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OK , You can play with stats all night long , lets just stick to stats since the PL started  , Man U be top and Arsenal 2nd , take your pick from the rest , then there is the Head to head , lets count the period  where owners where chucking the lot at thier clubs and the period before , still the same two clubs , twist that if you can , knowing you i am sure you can , this year will see the Gunners mount an even stronger title tilt , the other s will need to up the ante for sure ....................EYG
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Andy808 said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Give it up now Phil. They are goading you and you're falling for it mate.
		
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You call it goading but when boots on other foot it's a debate. :thup: To be honest I have little interest in either Arsenal or Liverpool either than being an armchair fan of football and just like to see good sides playing decent footie and so can be pragmatic about the merits or not of either side.
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Take the Liverpool glasses off. Are you not even going to acknowledge the Invincible achievement Wenger managed then.
		
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I actually wear contacts these days 

And yes Wenger won a title without losing one game - was a good season and they won the title - how would you like me to "acknowledge" that

It was one of three with still no European titles and nothing for ten years - did well with an inherited team 

So no he is nowhere near the best managers the game has seen - nowhere near.
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Andy808 said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Give it up now Phil. They are goading you and you're falling for it mate. 
LFC has a good manager who, with some time, could be great. The team is coming on nicely and this bunch of clowns are trying to wind you up mate. 
It's time for a "whatever" and move on buddy.
		
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We not clowns , we stating fact and having a debate with no name calling , thats what a forum is .......................EYG
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			OK , You can play with stats all night long , lets just stick to stats since the PL started  , Man U be top and Arsenal 2nd , take your pick from the rest , then there is the Head to head , lets count the period  where owners where chucking the lot at thier clubs and the period before , still the same two clubs , twist that if you can , knowing you i am sure you can , this year will see the Gunners mount an even stronger title tilt , the other s will need to up the ante for sure ....................EYG
		
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Why stick with stats from just PL - didn't Arsenal or football exists before then ? Sorry but the records show you a great deal behind the top two 

How many CL have you won - zero - Notts forest have two , Villa have won , only one London club has won one , Man UTD 3 , Liverpool 5
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Take the Liverpool glasses off. Are you not even going to acknowledge the Invincible achievement Wenger managed then.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:





Andy808 said:



			It's ok mate :thup:

Think Rodgers is doing a very good job - still got a lot of learning to do and certainly needs to improve in areas 

Looking forward to the season :whoo:
		
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Liverpoolphil said:





HomerJSimpson said:



			I actually wear contacts these days 

And yes Wenger won a title without losing one game - was a good season and they won the title - how would you like me to "acknowledge" that

It was one of three with still no European titles and nothing for ten years - did well with an inherited team 

So no he is nowhere near the best managers the game has seen - nowhere near.
		
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Bit more than just winning a title though was it. Unbeaten all season. No one, not Fergie, Shankley, Revie, Clough or anyone has come close.  Bit better than a good season and to be honest the CL isn't the be all. With all the resources others throw at it these days there will be the same names (perm 6 from 8 most seasons). Shame you can't even acknowledge such a significant achievement by Wenger
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





HomerJSimpson said:



			I actually wear contacts these days 

And yes Wenger won a title without losing one game - was a good season and they won the title - how would you like me to "acknowledge" that

It was one of three with still no European titles and nothing for ten years - did well with an inherited team 

So no he is nowhere near the best managers the game has seen - nowhere near.
		
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Thats your view and and its your right but i think you are very wrong and thats my view ........................EYG
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:





HomerJSimpson said:





Liverpoolphil said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Bit more than just winning a title though was it. Unbeaten all season. No one, not Fergie, Shankley, Revie, Clough or anyone has come close.  Bit better than a good season and to be honest the CL isn't the be all. With all the resources others throw at it these days there will be the same names (perm 6 from 8 most seasons). Shame you can't even acknowledge such a significant achievement by Wenger
		
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How exactly would you like me acknowledge it Homer 

The records show he won one title that year - regardless of how wonderful an achievement you believe it to be for me it still doesn't put him amongst the best - zero European trophies , no trophies for a decade - sort of balances it out for me 

Decent manager who has done well.
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			Thats your view and and its your right but i think you are very wrong and thats my view ........................EYG
		
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Of course you think I'm wrong - but you haven't backed up why with anything substantial or factual
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			Why stick with stats from just PL - didn't Arsenal or football exists before then ? Sorry but the records show you a great deal behind the top two 

How many CL have you won - zero - Notts forest have two , Villa have won , only one London club has won one , Man UTD 3 , Liverpool 5
		
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we have won the fairs cup now Europa league and the cup winners cup , how many of them did liverpool win ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,................)  zero , stats again ................no we stick  with PL stats as those other times you could back pass to the goalie all nite long and he could pick it up so lets stick to PL stats as thats the modern game ......................EYG
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW I have to agree. No mention of a historic feat and all about the CL. I can't see how he can't be amongst the best with that season, two top two's four top threes and nothing worse than 4th


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			we have won the fairs cup now Europa league and the cup winners cup , how many of them did liverpool win ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,................)  zero , stats again ................no we still with PL stats as those other times you could back pass to the goalie all nite long and he could pick it up so lets stick to PL stats as thats the modern game ......................EYG
		
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We won three UEFA Cups ( what was before the Europa ) 

Sorry but the stats don't start again when the Prem was started.
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			Of course you think I'm wrong - but you haven't backed up why with anything substantial or factual
		
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I have but you choose to post around them , great managers do many things well not just win trophies , Moyes did a good job at Everton , never won anything but he did good with what he had ...........EYG
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Sorry Phil. You simply choose to ignore it wasn't just a title but *footballing history*

I would have thought most football fans irrespective of who they support would at least be able to respect the achievement and not just glibly write it off as a single title win and bounce it back to CL which isn't the topic. JCW and I are both debating PL performance and nothing to do with the CL at all. That said Chelsea have won the CL so are they a better side than Liverpool? More trophies at home and in Europe


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:





JCW said:



			We won three UEFA Cups ( what was before the Europa ) 

Sorry but the stats don't start again when the Prem was started.
		
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But Liverpool never won the cup winners cup , never , and thats a stat that will never change ....................EYG
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			But Liverpool never won the cup winners cup , never , and thats a stat that will never change ....................EYG
		
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That's because we were very rarely in it due to competing in the European Cup year in year out 

But you have your cup winners cup - well done - think that puts you alongside Aberdeen in amongst the teams.

All the great teams and great managers have won the big one - the European Cup and CL. All of them are amongst the winners - Arsenal and Wenger aren't on that list.
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

So you won't acknowledge Wenger and Arsenal made footballing history and not just won a title? Or Chelsea are better than Liverpool based on their CL and PL success.  I thought you were a football fan but the Liverpool blinkers are firmly on. I'm out


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry Phil. You simply choose to ignore it wasn't just a title but *footballing history*

I would have thought most football fans irrespective of who they support would at least be able to respect the achievement and not just glibly write it off as a single title win and bounce it back to CL which isn't the topic. JCW and I are both debating PL performance and nothing to do with the CL at all. That said Chelsea have won the CL so are they a better side than Liverpool? More trophies at home and in Europe
		
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How can I be ignoring it when I have said it's a good season ?! Sorry but am I supposed to say something else ? 

Sorry but when did Chelsea suddenly get more trophies than us both in Europe and in England ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Sorry, How much have Chelsea won compared to Liverpool over the last ten years home and abroad. You can't rest on the laurels of the past and back track to those halcyon days when the statistics don't back your argument. Sorry good season is winning PL. *Historic* something far more

You are too blinkered and moving the goalposts too often to make this a worthwhile debate anymore. I'm done now


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			JCW I have to agree. No mention of a historic feat and all about the CL. I can't see how he can't be amongst the best with that season, two top two's four top threes and nothing worse than 4th
		
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It was a great season and i was at 2 matches , the CL is a knockout comp but even the liverpool win was on pens like man u and chelsea , it is what it is and these days its all fixed to get the best clubs  going forward to the later rounds where in years gone by it was only the champions that played in it and now even the draw is kinda fix , i like to see it go back to an open draw . Arsenal winning the PL unbeaten is the stuff of dreams and Wenger is the only modern day manager to have that on his CV and it does not make him the greatest manager but he is up there with the Best , Sir Alec is too as is Paisley,  Clough , Jock Stein who by the way was the 1st British manager to win it .....................EYG


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry, How much have Chelsea won compared to Liverpool over the last ten years home and abroad. You can't rest on the laurels of the past and back track to those halcyon days when the statistics don't back your argument. Sorry good season is winning PL. *Historic* something far more

You are too blinkered and moving the goalposts too often to make this a worthwhile debate anymore. I'm done now
		
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Are you actually done or will you be back to debate two teams you have zero interest in ? 

Chelsea in the last ten years have been more successful than us - don't believe anyone has suggested they aren't - not sure exactly which goalposts you believe I have moved 

I believe Wenger isn't one of the best the game has seen - simple as that , regardless of one season.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Change the record mate,gets boring listening to you playing the victims all the time

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Don't like that phrase, quite offensive actually.

As for changing the record, do you realise how much you bore the pants off everyone, with your Liverpool sniping. Both Liverpool and non-Liverpool fans.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why is it different ? Liverpool dominated in the 70's and 80's and Man UTD did in the 90's and 00's but we just didn't dominate in a England we dominated in Europe - 3 European Cup wins in 9 years from one manager - something Ferguson can't touch - a major title every season he was manager. 

Imagine what he could have achieved if he stayed on for 26 years - immeasurable. 

Fergusons number will be more - he stayed for 19 more seasons. Would certainly expect a bit more European Trophies

We can go around all night but Paisley is always going to be up there
		
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Phil there are no guarantees. We could imagine he'd of won 50 titles. Or as that team fell away,  not been good enough (as Fergie was)  to completely rebuild. I'd also question the European cup comparison.  Not devaluing your wins at all. But in the last 20 years how many teams have dominated like you did. It's harder to win these days. Even the greatest team of all time according to many pundits could do two in a row with a fully fit Messi.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Ok, so does money guarantee success or is it coaching and development?
		
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Coaching and development don't guarantee success, I can tell you that much.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Phil there are no guarantees. We could imagine he'd of won 50 titles. Or as that team fell away,  not been good enough (as Fergie was)  to completely rebuild. I'd also question the European cup comparison.  Not devaluing your wins at all. But in the last 20 years how many teams have dominated like you did. It's harder to win these days. Even the greatest team of all time according to many pundits could do two in a row with a fully fit Messi.
		
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I know There are no guarantees hence why i said could - but even then the team went on to dominate for another 8 years with another EC plus more titles added. 

You can question the European cup comparison but it was bloody hard to win it back then - full knockout with only the champs in it - it was different but and just as hard as it is now.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Liverpool got Rogers , spent as much as they want and win nothink because the manager is rubbish as he showed last year , played all that pretty football and won a big zero , need to spent on a new manager ......................hang on , no more money as they have spent the LS money and there is no LS , so its mid table for them next season ................EYG
		
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These are the rantings of a child.


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know There are no guarantees hence why i said could - but even then the team went on to dominate for another 8 years with another EC plus more titles added. 

You can question the European cup comparison but it was bloody hard to win it back then - full knockout with only the champs in it - it was different but and just as hard as it is now.
		
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Its harder to win the PL unbeaten and only one manager  Wenger has done that , G Graham Nearly did losing one game 2-1 at chelsea in 91 but that was the old league title , Champions league has been won by many and that is a stat , no amount of goal post moving or trophy count will change ..................EYG


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## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know There are no guarantees hence why i said could - but even then the team went on to dominate for another 8 years with another EC plus more titles added. 

You can question the European cup comparison but it was bloody hard to win it back then - full knockout with only the champs in it - it was different but and just as hard as it is now.
		
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I'm not saying it wasn't difficult. Just in my opinion not quite as difficult as now. Hence no back to back wins and there have been some great clubs sides in that time. But I will hold my hands up and say I shot my reply out before I read a yours. And to your credit said he was as Good as Fergie. You didn't start the debate on him being better. So I'll not go on as I agree both in their own right are great. As to Arsenal n webger. I think he's destroyed a lot of his creditability. Yeah he did well with financial difficulties. But in 30 years it will show his record. Not his book keeping skills.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow, where do i start?

In fact i'll jib it.


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			These are the rantings of a child.
		
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We have met , do i look like a child or play golf like one , google the nearest spec savers store and try again ..................EYG


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## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Its harder to win the PL unbeaten and only one manager  Wenger has done that , G Graham Nearly did losing one game 2-1 at chelsea in 91 but that was the old league title , Champions league has been won by many and that is a stat , no amount of goal post moving or trophy count will change ..................EYG
		
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Going unbeaten was GREAT but that doesn't change the fact that after that era you have until this season won nothing. 
And even that season you had the filthy Pires diving last minute to win point saving draws. 

I believe your points tally isn't even top 3 in prep history either. 

We get if he'd retired 10 years ago may have been heralded a great. But now he'll need to manage another 10 tears winning a trophy each season to get close to that recognition.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			We have met , do i look like a child or play golf like one , google the nearest spec savers store and try again ..................EYG
		
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Mature. He was simply pointing out that your ramblings were unfounded and sounded like that of a child. Google reasoned debate and maybe get a clue.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			But Liverpool never won the cup winners cup , never , and thats a stat that will never change ....................EYG
		
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Thank god, it was the third best trophy anyway.

When you finished champions or second most years, you went into the Champions cup and the UEFA.

8 of them BTW in total - European royalty, not a minor count, a bit like Arsenal.
		
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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not saying it wasn't difficult. Just in my opinion not quite as difficult as now. Hence no back to back wins and there have been some great clubs sides in that time. But I will hold my hands up and say I shot my reply out before I read a yours. And to your credit said he was as Good as Fergie. You didn't start the debate on him being better. So I'll not go on as I agree both in their own right are great. As to Arsenal n webger. I think he's destroyed a lot of his creditability. Yeah he did well with financial difficulties. But in 30 years it will show his record. Not his book keeping skills.
		
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He is not done yet , part 3 is just starting , FA Cup and more to come or maybe not but its wait and see .................EYG


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## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			He is not done yet , part 3 is just starting , FA Cup and more to come or maybe not but its wait and see .................EYG
		
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That is the most sensible post I've seen of yours. MAYBE,  MAYBE NOT LET'S WAIT AND SEE. unlike the last 50 pages where you've called arsenal the best there is was or ever will be with an era of dominance imminent.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			He is not done yet , part 3 is just starting , FA Cup and more to come or maybe not but its wait and see .................EYG
		
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For Wenger to be amongst the best then he must add the top European trophies to his CV just like the others have 

Until then he will be amongst the best of the rest


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Mature. He was simply pointing out that your ramblings were unfounded and sounded like that of a child. Google reasoned debate and maybe get a clue.
		
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my views unfounded , read the thread again , goal post moved so much nobody scored , nite nite


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## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			That is the most sensible post I've seen of yours. MAYBE,  MAYBE NOT LET'S WAIT AND SEE. unlike the last 50 pages where you've called arsenal the best there is was or ever will be with an era of dominance imminent.
		
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No different to the Liverpool fans sayin they were the best and so is rogers after one 2nd place finished , nite


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			We have met , do i look like a child or play golf like one , google the nearest spec savers store and try again ..................EYG
		
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If we have, cant remember you. Where was it. Did I see you play?

You may not look like one, but you certainly sound like one.

Answer me one question, if Arsene is so great (he was for 10 years), he was average the rest, how come half your fans wanted him out before last seasons FA cup win.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			No different to the Liverpool fans sayin they were the best and so is rogers after one 2nd place finished , nite
		
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No one on here is saying either of those ?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			No different to the Liverpool fans sayin they were the best and so is rogers after one 2nd place finished , nite
		
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JCW, I don't believe anybody has said Rodgers is the best at all.

Your comparison between Wenger and Rodgers is poor as Wenger has at least 20yrs on him so obviously his record is going to be better  than Rodgers.

Why not compare Wenger and Ferguson over the same period as thats  a more fair comparison?

Wenger and his fans boast about his great record in qualifying for the CL yet he's been to 1 final in 18 attempts and lost that!!

Rafa Benitez has won more CL's and been to more final's with lesser talented squads than your great manager and sides.

Liverpool FC have failed miserably in the league over the years compared with the mighty Wenger and Arsenal, though theres been an awful lot of boardroom level issues at Liverpool during that time.

You also state that we NEED a bigger stadium, i'd disagree. T

The only reason i see is financially which is pure utter GREED. That's it.

Arsenal's stadium is now paid for, will the fans see a reduction in ticket prices?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2014)

Pores diving for last minute penalties in the invincible team. Suarez last season?????


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pores diving for last minute penalties in the invincible team. Suarez last season?????
		
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Im just saying that for as great a team as that was. I remember Pires and his histrionics as much as they're football.


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

In my opinion, to say that *Arsene Wenger* is not a top class manager is crazy. 
His record is excellent and in terms of games won, drawn and lost in the premiership he is on a par with Ferguson. He just hasn't had the trophies to elevate him to legendary status. 

He also signed Thierry Henry and turned him into one of the best strikers in the game whereas he was used as a pacey winger with no eye for goal before that. 

He has also spotted and developed some of the best young talent in the game and won the premiership without being defeated. 

He didn't inherit a good team. In the years before Wenger joined Arsenal finished 12th, 4th, 11th, 4th. Hardly a consistent team that was challenging for the premiership. Since taking them over he has never finished lower than 5th (once in his first season) and has managed to win the premiership 3 times. 

On top of 3 premier league titles he has managed to win 9 other trophies (5x FA cup, 4x Charity Shield). Hardly a poor record. 

*Brendan Rodgers:
*Too early to tell - he has only been a manager for 6 years and has only been at the helm of a big club since 2012. Time will tell if he is a good manager or not. And currently you can't say that success at Liverpool is solely down to him as he inherited the club 2 seasons ago so a lot of the infrastructure was already in place.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			In my opinion, to say that *Arsene Wenger* is not a top class manager is crazy. 
His record is excellent and in terms of games won, drawn and lost in the premiership he is on a par with Ferguson. He just hasn't had the trophies to elevate him to legendary status. 

He also signed Thierry Henry and turned him into one of the best strikers in the game whereas he was used as a pacey winger with no eye for goal before that. 

He has also spotted and developed some of the best young talent in the game and won the premiership without being defeated. 

He didn't inherit a good team. In the years before Wenger joined Arsenal finished 12th, 4th, 11th, 4th. Hardly a consistent team that was challenging for the premiership. Since taking them over he has never finished lower than 5th (once in his first season) and has managed to win the premiership 3 times. 

On top of 3 premier league titles he has managed to win 9 other trophies (5x FA cup, 4x Charity Shield). Hardly a poor record. 

*Brendan Rodgers:
*Too early to tell - he has only been a manager for 6 years and has only been at the helm of a big club since 2012. Time will tell if he is a good manager or not. And currently you can't say that success at Liverpool is solely down to him as he inherited the club 2 seasons ago so a lot of the infrastructure was already in place.
		
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The only part I'd argue about that is this idea that Wenger is some sort of youth team genius. Arsenal have or usually have the largest squad numbers by some distance. Arsenal recruit 100's of youngsters on good wages and them discard them. How many players have actually come right through arsenals youth set up as a pose to being stolen from other clubs. 

Re his record. He's probably the 2/3 best prem manager all time. That's how I'd think of him. Clearly behind Fergie as their win ratios may be similar but fergie won the big games more often and therefor got the trophies.


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## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			If we have, cant remember you. Where was it. Did I see you play?

You may not look like one, but you certainly sound like one.

Answer me one question, if Arsene is so great (he was for 10 years), he was average the rest, how come half your fans wanted him out before last seasons FA cup win.
		
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We shook hands , you don`t kow me well enough to make comments , like i say to a lot of people , if its a comment you wont make in person to someone dont post it , I can say comments about your post in a personal way but choose not too ,................. liverpool fans have been 2nd best to the Manchester clubs and london clubs for so long now that it has gone beyond hurt , most of you posting on here remember the great times of Liverpool FC and you need a bigger stadium to increase your spending power to complete with the big boys in transfers , you only spending now because you sold LS and then what .......a rich russian owner needed or an arab , Arsenal did not have to leave Highbury but like every growing Business it needs to expand and has done that and will now push on far ahead of liverpool , do you think a player like Sanchez would have gone to arsenal if the liverpool of today was as strong as the club of the 70`s & 80`s , RM and Barca already have the stadiums as to BM , how many managers could have kept Arsenal at the top table every year under such restraints and he could have left as RM and PSG wanted him , Rogers is the best young manager around that is British and has done well but these days you need money and lots of it , if you have a business and more money to spent you can buy products on a bigger scale then the shop down the road who has not and you get bigger discounts on your products and can can sell them cheaper then down the road so in the end they cant complete with you , that how it is and why Arsenal choose to move and in a recent report the cash reserve at Arsenal is more then ALL the clubs in the PL , that is a fact , the rest are living on credit or rich owner pumping money in for fun , tax reasons , or cleaning dirty money , who knows , most of us live the Arsenal way , that is within our means , off to play golf now in a comp , just leave you with this , If i were a business i rather be Arsenal then any of the other clubs ......................EYG


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			These are the rantings of a child.
		
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Hold on a second. You just complained about someone saying something offensive about you and you then write this.


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			The only part I'd argue about that is this idea that Wenger is some sort of youth team genius. Arsenal have or usually have the largest squad numbers by some distance. Arsenal recruit 100's of youngsters on good wages and them discard them. How many players have actually come right through arsenals youth set up as a pose to being stolen from other clubs. 

Re his record. He's probably the 2/3 best prem manager all time. That's how I'd think of him. Clearly behind Fergie as their win ratios may be similar but fergie won the big games more often and therefor got the trophies.
		
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I never said that Arsene and Arsenal have developed their own youth talent. I simply stated he has a record of buying young players and developing them into good players. 

Arsenal recruit 100's of youngsters. Is that a fact? 76.5% of stats are made up on the spot you know.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			I never said that Arsene and Arsenal have developed their own youth talent. I simply stated he has a record of buying young players and developing them into good players. 

Arsenal recruit 100's of youngsters. Is that a fact? 76.5% of stats are made up on the spot you know.
		
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No it's not an exact number. But if you take a look at their list of released players each season they consistently have more than others. That's a fact I've seen having had this question with other. Wenger steals talent. Luke shaw for example will become a great lb. Will it be van gaal that's responsible for that, or the saints academy?
same for Ox, Walcott etc.


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			No it's not an exact number. But if you take a look at their list of released players each season they consistently have more than others. That's a fact I've seen having had this question with other. Wenger steals talent. Luke shaw for example will become a great lb. Will it be van gaal that's responsible for that, or the saints academy?
same for Ox, Walcott etc.
		
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I've just had a look at the transfer records for all prem clubs since 1999. Arsenal have not consistently released more players than other clubs at all. Papas - you can't just make stuff up and claim it as fact. Well you can, but it really affects the legitimacy of any of your arguments. 

It doesn't matter whether Wenger develops youth himself or buys youth players to develop. He has a strong record for buying younger players before they have reached their potential. He did this at a time when his contemporaries were buying big name players who were already recognised as talent.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			I've just had a look at the transfer records for all prem clubs since 1999. Arsenal have not consistently released more players than other clubs at all. Papas - you can't just make stuff up and claim it as fact. Well you can, but it really affects the legitimacy of any of your arguments. 

It doesn't matter whether Wenger develops youth himself or buys youth players to develop. He has a strong record for buying younger players before they have reached their potential. He did this at a time when his contemporaries were buying big name players who were already recognised as talent.
		
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how ow many youngsters has wenger made truly world stars from nowhere. Fabregas  Henry, Viera?
id say wengers only true competition due to time would be fergie. I'd say he did just as well with the entire crop of youngsters that went np to dominate in the prem. Could add others such as stam and Ronaldo to that list too so I'd hardly put wenger as a stand out.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			I've just had a look at the transfer records for all prem clubs since 1999. Arsenal have not consistently released more players than other clubs at all. Papas - you can't just make stuff up and claim it as fact. Well you can, but it really affects the legitimacy of any of your arguments. 

It doesn't matter whether Wenger develops youth himself or buys youth players to develop. He has a strong record for buying younger players before they have reached their potential. He did this at a time when his contemporaries were buying big name players who were already recognised as talent.
		
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Take a look here. 

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/arsenal-transfers.html
since the arsenal have had the stadium to deal with look how many players arsenal have released on frees. You songsters that he's taken a ount on that haven't worked. I believe I counted 47 that went for free or nominal. Twice as many in 5 years than man UTD.


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			how ow many youngsters has wenger made truly world stars from nowhere. Fabregas  Henry, Viera?
id say wengers only true competition due to time would be fergie. I'd say he did just as well with the entire crop of youngsters that went np to dominate in the prem. Could add others such as stam and Ronaldo to that list too so I'd hardly put wenger as a stand out.
		
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Papas - for me, your credibility on this thread has gone down hill, I am afraid.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Papas - for me, your credibility on this thread has gone down hill, I am afraid.
		
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How so? 

Tell me how many more stars wenger has unearthed? Since the prem began. Net spend UTD have spent approx Â£10m a year more and their success is how much greater? Wenger has also as I've shown bought and released more unkonwns than his counterparts. Throughout this thread about Liverpool I have acknowledged wenger as a good manager. I just believe there are certain myths about him. I remember arsenal villa last season when more than a minority of arsenal fans turned on him too.


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## Stuey01 (Jul 30, 2014)

According to that site Arsenal sold Carlos Vela in 12/13 for Â£4.2M and sold him again in 14/15 for Â£8.8M.
Now THAT is a good bit of business.


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			How so? 

Tell me how many more stars wenger has unearthed? Since the prem began. Net spend UTD have spent approx Â£10m a year more and their success is how much greater? Wenger has also as I've shown bought and released more unkonwns than his counterparts. Throughout this thread about Liverpool I have acknowledged wenger as a good manager. I just believe there are certain myths about him. I remember arsenal villa last season when more than a minority of arsenal fans turned on him too.
		
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I'll repeat my original statement for you. In case you missed it, didn't read it, forgot about it or chose to ignore it. 

_I've just had a look at the transfer records for all prem clubs since 1999. Arsenal have not consistently released more players than other clubs at all. Papas - you can't just make stuff up and claim it as fact. Well you can, but it really affects the legitimacy of any of your arguments. 

_I used the same website you did to look at the historical transfers out for clubs. Your data set is far too narrow to support your original statement that Arsene 'consistently releases more players each season (sic)', which is why I believe you fabricate facts and your credibility has been diminished.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			I'll repeat my original statement for you. In case you missed it, didn't read it, forgot about it or chose to ignore it. 

_I've just had a look at the transfer records for all prem clubs since 1999. Arsenal have not consistently released more players than other clubs at all. Papas - you can't just make stuff up and claim it as fact. Well you can, but it really affects the legitimacy of any of your arguments. 

_I used the same website you did to look at the historical transfers out for clubs. Your data set is far too narrow to support your original statement that Arsene 'consistently releases more players each season (sic)', which is why I believe you fabricate facts and your credibility has been diminished.
		
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as you say, stats can be use by all to fit their needs. I used the timescale because that was when wenger and arsenal went into financial hardship (relative to their completion) and wenger was suddenly heralded for doing so well with youth. For what it's worth, going through that list til 99 with arsenal and UTD I count arsenal realising 105 players that never made it. 60 for UTD so a substantial difference IMO. 

As I've said, i don't think wenger is a bad manager, just believe that more is made for his expertise with youth than it deserves. For every Fabregas there's a Jeffers. Same as for every Ronaldo there's a kleberson for fergie. 

My my original point was simply that wenger isn't a magician.


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			as you say, stats can be use by all to fit their needs. I used the timescale because that was when wenger and arsenal went into financial hardship (relative to their completion) and wenger was suddenly heralded for doing so well with youth. For what it's worth, going through that list til 99 with arsenal and UTD I count arsenal realising 105 players that never made it. 60 for UTD so a substantial difference IMO. 

As I've said, i don't think wenger is a bad manager, just believe that more is made for his expertise with youth than it deserves. For every Fabregas there's a Jeffers. Same as for every Ronaldo there's a kleberson for fergie. 

My my original point was simply that wenger isn't a magician.
		
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Your original point was the Wenger transfers out more players than any other premier league club consistently. 
One year is hardly consistent. 
Either you are being misleading with your 'facts' or you don't know the facts. 

Your most recent comment is a diversion away from your original statements, which again does not exactly make you look credible.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			In my opinion, to say that *Arsene Wenger* is not a top class manager is crazy. 
His record is excellent and in terms of games won, drawn and lost in the premiership he is on a par with Ferguson. He just hasn't had the trophies to elevate him to legendary status. 

He also signed Thierry Henry and turned him into one of the best strikers in the game whereas he was used as a pacey winger with no eye for goal before that. 

He has also spotted and developed some of the best young talent in the game and won the premiership without being defeated. 

He didn't inherit a good team. In the years before Wenger joined Arsenal finished 12th, 4th, 11th, 4th. Hardly a consistent team that was challenging for the premiership. Since taking them over he has never finished lower than 5th (once in his first season) and has managed to win the premiership 3 times. 

On top of 3 premier league titles he has managed to win 9 other trophies (5x FA cup, 4x Charity Shield). Hardly a poor record. 

*Brendan Rodgers:
*Too early to tell - he has only been a manager for 6 years and has only been at the helm of a big club since 2012. Time will tell if he is a good manager or not. And currently you can't say that success at Liverpool is solely down to him as he inherited the club 2 seasons ago so a lot of the infrastructure was already in place.
		
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First thing I would say is - Charity Shield is a pre season friendly and I would never use it to judge any manager or include it in a list of "honours"

And yes for me Wenger isn't in the Top Class level of managers 

Reasons - Europe - all the top managers have also win in Europe not just domestically - forget stats about win ratios etc etc - it's trophies that get put on a CV. So whilst Wenger has done well in England with 3 titles that still puts him behind managers like Kenny 

In the last ten years Wenger has won the same amount of trophies as both Bruce and Redknapp and Martinez - top class managers don't go a decade without silverware.

So whilst Wenger is a good manager and at one stage looked like he could achieve greatness he for me falls short of the top class that are around and have been around.  When Wengers back four ( that he gained from Graham ) retired he failed to replace them , he also had Bergkamp there at the club - he bought well with Veira but then didn't replace him , Anelka and Pires , Henry had already showed his class in WC98 - Juve played him wrong , Wenger got it right but again he hasn't replaced his power and pace and strength. 

As for Rodgers - has started well but still a long way to go to see what he does


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Your original point was the Wenger transfers out more players than any other premier league club consistently. 
One year is hardly consistent. 
Either you are being misleading with your 'facts' or you don't know the facts. 

Your most recent comment is a diversion away from your original statements, which again does not exactly make you look credible.
		
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Where have I said one year? On that website there is clearly more than one year where arsenal released more.

I have looked myself seen that in the last decade arsenal have released more youngsters than their rivals. I have chosen a timescale Ibelieve  relevant. If you don't like that timescale that's your choice. I'm firmly in the camp that arsenals last decade is a failure in comparison to the previous decade. 

And nd I firmly believe the myth that wenger nurtures talent better than others a myth too. 

We are clearly on opposites np but so far you've not actually presented anything that shows other clubs release as many as arsenal, nor have you listed a substantial amount of players for arsenal to show how he spots more talent than any other. 

Your  pro wenger, I'm not exactly anti wenger. Just not spellbound. 

Anyways. I'm off for the afternoon. I'll happily eat humble pie if there are lists in hearing proving wengers outstanding record in comparison to his peers.


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			First thing I would say is - Charity Shield is a pre season friendly and I would never use it to judge any manager or include it in a list of "honours"

And yes for me Wenger isn't in the Top Class level of managers 

Reasons - Europe - all the top managers have also win in Europe not just domestically - forget stats about win ratios etc etc - it's trophies that get put on a CV. So whilst Wenger has done well in England with 3 titles that still puts him behind managers like Kenny 

In the last ten years Wenger has won the same amount of trophies as both Bruce and Redknapp and Martinez - top class managers don't go a decade without silverware.

So whilst Wenger is a good manager and at one stage looked like he could achieve greatness he for me falls short of the top class that are around and have been around.  When Wengers back four ( that he gained from Graham ) retired he failed to replace them , he also had Bergkamp there at the club - he bought well with Veira but then didn't replace him , Anelka and Pires , Henry had already showed his class in WC98 - Juve played him wrong , Wenger got it right but again he hasn't replaced his power and pace and strength. 

As for Rodgers - has started well but still a long way to go to see what he does
		
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Let's wait and see how well Rodgers replaces Suarez. 
Suarez is the type of player that effectively helps Liverpool score 50 goals a season (his goals and assists). Let's see how easy that is to replace.


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## fundy (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			According to that site Arsenal sold Carlos Vela in 12/13 for Â£4.2M and sold him again in 14/15 for Â£8.8M.
Now THAT is a good bit of business.
		
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Pretty odd tfr, they sold him initially (after a loan spell) but retained a 50% share of him in future transfer and first refusal on him when that came about i believe


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Let's wait and see how well Rodgers replaces Suarez. 
Suarez is the type of player that effectively helps Liverpool score 50 goals a season (his goals and assists). Let's see how easy that is to replace.
		
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Im waiting to see how he replaces Suarez and to see how we fair this season - but strange reply to most post about Wenger


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Arsenal's stadium is now paid for, will the fans see a reduction in ticket prices?
		
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I don't believe that's the case! What makes you think they have?

In fact, I don't believe it will be paid off until around 2030!

Some parts of the Â£500M cost may have been (like some bonds), but I believe there's a Â£20-Â£25M ongoing yearly cost!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

londonlewis said:



			Let's wait and see how well Rodgers replaces Suarez. 
Suarez is the type of player that effectively helps Liverpool score 50 goals a season (his goals and assists). Let's see how easy that is to replace.
		
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Suarez is irreplaceable imo, and I can't think of one player who could replace him like for like.

Messin nor  Ronaldo are the same type as Suarez.

What Rodgers will have to do is find another way of winning games.

Didn't Wenger pay Â£16m for Reyes ??


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## londonlewis (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Im waiting to see how he replaces Suarez and to see how we fair this season - but strange reply to most post about Wenger
		
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It's called the evolution of a conversation Phil.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Suarez is irreplaceable imo, and I can't think of one player who could replace him like for like.

Messin nor  Ronaldo are the same type as Suarez.

What Rodgers will have to do is find another way of winning games.

Didn't Wenger pay Â£16m for Reyes ??
		
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Think was around initial fee of Â£13mil with other payments to take it up to Â£18mil ?


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			Liverpool got Rogers , spent as much as they want and win nothink because the manager is rubbish as he showed last year , played all that pretty football and won a big zero , need to spent on a new manager ......................hang on , no more money as they have spent the LS money and there is no LS , so its mid table for them next season ................EYG
		
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These are childish rantings. 



JCW said:



			We shook hands , you don`t kow me well enough to make comments , like i say to a lot of people , if its a comment you wont make in person to someone dont post it , I can say comments about your post in a personal way but choose not too ,................. liverpool fans have been 2nd best to the Manchester clubs and london clubs for so long now that it has gone beyond hurt , most of you posting on here remember the great times of Liverpool FC and you need a bigger stadium to increase your spending power to complete with the big boys in transfers , you only spending now because you sold LS and then what .......a rich russian owner needed or an arab , Arsenal did not have to leave Highbury but like every growing Business it needs to expand and has done that and will now push on far ahead of liverpool , do you think a player like Sanchez would have gone to arsenal if the liverpool of today was as strong as the club of the 70`s & 80`s , RM and Barca already have the stadiums as to BM , how many managers could have kept Arsenal at the top table every year under such restraints and he could have left as RM and PSG wanted him , Rogers is the best young manager around that is British and has done well but these days you need money and lots of it , if you have a business and more money to spent you can buy products on a bigger scale then the shop down the road who has not and you get bigger discounts on your products and can can sell them cheaper then down the road so in the end they cant complete with you , that how it is and why Arsenal choose to move and in a recent report the cash reserve at Arsenal is more then ALL the clubs in the PL , that is a fact , the rest are living on credit or rich owner pumping money in for fun , tax reasons , or cleaning dirty money , who knows , most of us live the Arsenal way , that is within our means , off to play golf now in a comp , just leave you with this , If i were a business i rather be Arsenal then any of the other clubs ......................EYG
		
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This is a reasonably considered post, although don't agree with it all. I didn't need the business lesson, and "economies of scale" would have saved you a few lines.

The bigger stadium is hopefully on its way, and LIKE Arsenal, hopefully we may have success based on self-reliance. Sometimes we may not want to admit it, but some rivals have more in common than what we would like to admit.

I still cant remember you, which course was it at? I also try to operate with the same mantra, to only post what I would be happy to say face to face. Maybe your not as memorable a me - I'm Goooorgeous.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			These are childish rantings. 



This is a reasonably considered post, although don't agree with it all. I didn't need the business lesson, and "economies of scale" would have saved you a few lines.

The bigger stadium is hopefully on its way, and LIKE Arsenal, hopefully we may have success based on self-reliance. Sometimes we may not want to admit it, but some rivals have more in common than what we would like to admit.

I still cant remember you, which course was it at? I also try to operate with the same mantra, to only post what I would be happy to say face to face. Maybe your not as memorable a me - I'm Goooorgeous.
		
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Beau Desert it was.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			We shook hands , you don`t kow me well enough to make comments , like i say to a lot of people , if its a comment you wont make in person to someone dont post it , I can say comments about your post in a personal way but choose not too ,................. liverpool fans have been 2nd best to the Manchester clubs and london clubs for so long now that it has gone beyond hurt , most of you posting on here remember the great times of Liverpool FC and you need a bigger stadium to increase your spending power to complete with the big boys in transfers , you only spending now because you sold LS and then what .......a rich russian owner needed or an arab , Arsenal did not have to leave Highbury but like every growing Business it needs to expand and has done that and will now push on far ahead of liverpool , do you think a player like Sanchez would have gone to arsenal if the liverpool of today was as strong as the club of the 70`s & 80`s , RM and Barca already have the stadiums as to BM , how many managers could have kept Arsenal at the top table every year under such restraints and he could have left as RM and PSG wanted him , Rogers is the best young manager around that is British and has done well but these days you need money and lots of it , if you have a business and more money to spent you can buy products on a bigger scale then the shop down the road who has not and you get bigger discounts on your products and can can sell them cheaper then down the road so in the end they cant complete with you , that how it is and why Arsenal choose to move and in a recent report the cash reserve at Arsenal is more then ALL the clubs in the PL , that is a fact , the rest are living on credit or rich owner pumping money in for fun , tax reasons , or cleaning dirty money , who knows , most of us live the Arsenal way , that is within our means , off to play golf now in a comp , just leave you with this , If i were a business i rather be Arsenal then any of the other clubs ......................EYG
		
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Very hard to read that but one thing that does stick out is you going on about businesses hence why I expect you are happy with Wenger - he keeps your business in profit and ticking over - ignoring the fact to keep the business in profit Arsenal fans have to pay more for a season ticket or match ticket than any other club in the country. 

The problem is a great number of Arsenal fans don't want to celebrate running the club at a profit - they don't want to pay more than anyone else and get a return of zero success on the pitch. 

Arsenal is a football club - it should be about success as a football club in regards trophy success as opposed to just running at a profit. Wenger has prob got himself another season maybe two to actually win the title or the CL or even realistically challenge for it - if not then the amount of people that want him gone will increase greatly. 

In fact there is no better way to bring in financial success club than to have a successful team on the pitch.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I don't believe that's the case! What makes you think they have?

In fact, I don't believe it will be paid off until around 2030!

Some parts of the Â£500M cost may have been (like some bonds), but I believe there's a Â£20-Â£25M ongoing yearly cost!
		
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Sorry I stand corrected. I was under the impression it was.

That Â£25m repayment is in theory a manageable mortgage which seeing as they receive Â£3m per game at home revenue shouldn't be a problem meeting every year.


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Sorry I stand corrected. I was under the impression it was.

That Â£25m repayment is in theory a manageable mortgage which seeing as they receive* Â£3m per game at home revenue* shouldn't be a problem meeting every year.
		
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Well, out of that they have to pay some pretty expensive bills! I think the overall profit to May 2013 was Â£15M. But at least they did make a profit, something some other Clubs (and their fans), Liverpool being one of them, don't appear to be concerned about!

And greater income, therefore ability to compete, was certainly part of the reasoning behind the move/bigger stadium!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Well, out of that they have to pay some pretty expensive bills! I think the overall profit to May 2013 was Â£15M. But at least they did make a profit, something some other Clubs (and their fans), Liverpool being one of them, don't appear to be concerned about!

And greater income, therefore ability to compete, was certainly part of the reasoning behind the move/bigger stadium!
		
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wasnt that 15m profit including paying substantially more towards the stadium than they will be doing this year. Therefor they have more to spend on players. Although been as they're trying to host extra concerts at the emirates, maybe things aren't so rosey?


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## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

The Arsenal model is the way forward for football clubs , they built a new stadium so they could complete in the future years and that time is now , to say Wenger did not win any trophies for 9 years hence he is an average manager , he had to complete against chelski who was buying every player going and later it was city , not a level playing field as those clubs were using monoply money from owners , to do what he did with what he had from 2007 onwards is notink short of a very good manager , had a chance to win but never got over the line till the FA Cup this year . Take a look at Leeds , Portsmouth and many others who lived on credit , where are they today , he is up there with the best , in a program on sky about managers he was voted no 1 even above Sir Alec , for me he is up there with the best and Arsenal football club are in good shape all round , how many can say that and i dont include the ones where owners are just chucking in money and now with FFP they have got accountants trying to come up with ways of not showing a huge lost .........................other clubs will have to do it to stay on the top table in Europe or get left behind , the Champions league will turn in to a European super league soon and if you dont stand on yer own 2 feet like most of us have to do then you will need a rich owner with very deep pockets ...................EYG


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## MadAdey (Jul 30, 2014)

Why when ever ere is a football thread it always ends up with the same 2 people arguing. I started this thread as a chat between e Liverpool fans, or anyone else that wants to comment, to see how they think the transfer window is looking. Everyone knows at Liverpool had an excellent season last year but needed to strengthen the squad, not just for the PL but if they are going to compete in the CL too.

People need to take their petty squabbling elsewhere, as sensible comments from other fans to give the unblinkered opinion is always interesting to read, but the petty squabbling isn't. Intact it actually gets boring to when threads just fill up with pointless crap. It was good talking football on here as it was always people with a good intelligence level having adult conversations, unlike the arguing on the footie forums. Now it just seems like that pettiness has moved here. 

I would just like to say thanks for yet another footie thread being wrecked.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Why when ever ere is a football thread it always ends up with the same 2 people arguing. I started this thread as a chat between e Liverpool fans, or anyone else that wants to comment, to see how they think the transfer window is looking. Everyone knows at Liverpool had an excellent season last year but needed to strengthen the squad, not just for the PL but if they are going to compete in the CL too.

People need to take their petty squabbling elsewhere, as sensible comments from other fans to give the unblinkered opinion is always interesting to read, but the petty squabbling isn't. Intact it actually gets boring to when threads just fill up with pointless crap. It was good talking football on here as it was always people with a good intelligence level having adult conversations, unlike the arguing on the footie forums. Now it just seems like that pettiness has moved here. 

I would just like to say thanks for yet another footie thread being wrecked.
		
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Fair point mate & I apologise,You do post honestly about you're club & I can see where you're coming from.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Well, out of that they have to pay some pretty expensive bills! I think the overall profit to May 2013 was Â£15M. But at least they did make a profit, something some other Clubs (and their fans), Liverpool being one of them, don't appear to be concerned about!

And greater income, therefore ability to compete, was certainly part of the reasoning behind the move/bigger stadium!
		
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What I'm more concerned about is clubs and owners making millions whilst us the fans are being ripped a new one with sky high ticket prices that is pricing people out of attending games.

People talk about salary caps etc but the 1st thing that should be capped is ticket prices , football should be accessible to all.

I appreciate that clubs need as much revenue as possible to compete but it shouldn't come at a cost to the fans. Especially with the amount of revenue they're already taking in through sponsorship

Look how Cheap the  German fans can access football compared to English fans.  

If and its a very big if FFP is policed correctly then yes Arsenals model will survive better than most.

On a side note look at how United have been taken over by "foreign investors" and those investors have put very little of their own cash into it,yet placed a massive amount of debt onto the club.

Bigger stadiums,with greater revenue and sponsorship should  mean  cheaper tickets.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			What I'm more concerned about is clubs and owners making millions whilst us the fans are being ripped a new one with sky high ticket prices that is pricing people out of attending games.

People talk about salary caps etc but the 1st thing that should be capped is ticket prices , football should be accessible to all.

I appreciate that clubs need as much revenue as possible to compete but it shouldn't come at a cost to the fans. Especially with the amount of revenue they're already taking in through sponsorship

Look how Cheap the  German fans can access football compared to English fans.  

If and its a very big if FFP is policed correctly then yes Arsenals model will survive better than most.

On a side note look at how United have been taken over by "foreign investors" and those investors have put very little of their own cash into it,yet placed a massive amount of debt onto the club.

Bigger stadiums,with greater revenue and sponsorship should  mean  cheaper tickets.
		
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German Football get a big helping hand financially from local governments and the overall government

Bayern new stadium for example cost them nothing to build , costs them nothing to run yet they get the proceeds from the matches etc 

The German model is great for the fans but unworkable in the UK


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## MadAdey (Jul 30, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Fair point mate & I apologise,You do post honestly about you're club & I can see where you're coming from.
		
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I do love a good debate on football, but why do people have to be so blinkered about things. This is a list of how I see the top teams and these facts are beyond arguement, but open for debate:


City: won it last year and got to be a favourite again this year. Sugar daddy owner with the ability to pump as much money in as he wants. Not a long list of honours historically, but doing well the last couple of years.


Chelsea: favourite again this year. Sugar daddy owner like City. Not a long list of honours historically but won plenty in recent years. Lampard replacement signed and the illusive striker they missed last year is there.


Arsenal: not sure how much of a favourite this year. Have always been a team at the top end of the table since time began. Had a historic season that I think will never be matched. Still looking for that elusive CL title though, but now the stadium is paid off there will be more money for team investment. Long history of success but been thin on the ground in recent years. Sanchez is a great signing but still wondering where the midfield general is going to come from. But there is still time for that.


United: not sure what this season holds, can they bring in the players they need? Great history of honours and very successful in recent times too. Money is there to spend, but no CL footie to temp players with. Could be an interesting season for them, but with a good coach in now and with some more good signings they will defiantly be back up there challenging.

Liverpool: 2nd last year and looking for another good season. Suarez has gone but major investment in the 1st team and squad in general being made. Plenty of money still sat there to make a couple of big signings to have a good season in both the CL and PL. Long history of honours that is amost second to none, but apart from a CL title and some cups, the last 20 years have been a bit bleak.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I do love a good debate on football, but why do people have to be so blinkered about things. This is a list of how I see the top teams and these facts are beyond arguement, but open for debate:


City: won it last year and got to be a favourite again this year. Sugar daddy owner with the ability to pump as much money in as he wants. Not a long list of honours historically, but doing well the last couple of years.


Chelsea: favourite again this year. Sugar daddy owner like City. Not a long list of honours historically but won plenty in recent years. Lampard replacement signed and the illusive striker they missed last year is there.


Arsenal: not sure how much of a favourite this year. Have always been a team at the top end of the table since time began. Had a historic season that I think will never be matched. Still looking for that elusive CL title though, but now the stadium is paid off there will be more money for team investment. Long history of success but been thin on the ground in recent years. Sanchez is a great signing but still wondering where the midfield general is going to come from. But there is still time for that.


United: not sure what this season holds, can they bring in the players they need? Great history of honours and very successful in recent times too. Money is there to spend, but no CL footie to temp players with. Could be an interesting season for them, but with a good coach in now and with some more good signings they will defiantly be back up there challenging.

Liverpool: 2nd last year and looking for another good season. Suarez has gone but major investment in the 1st team and squad in general being made. Plenty of money still sat there to make a couple of big signings to have a good season in both the CL and PL. Long history of honours that is amost second to none, but apart from a CL title and some cups, the last 20 years have been a bit bleak.
		
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I think all that Chelsea was missing last season was a top striker,With the arrival of Costa & return of Drogba I can't wait for the season to start. Would have liked Lukaku to stay tho.
I have no doubts about Fabregas,Quality player. 

Arsenal look Dangerous,Ramsey is world class IMO. Walcott,Ozil,Sanchez.... Also top players.

City will probably start as they finished & be the team to beat. 

UTD will be much stronger. The new manager demands respect from his players, Moyes just didn't have it. Top 4 finish.

Liverpool sorry but I really don't think Rogers is spending the money well.not one exciting signing IMO.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I do love a good debate on football, but why do people have to be so blinkered about things. This is a list of how I see the top teams and these facts are beyond arguement, but open for debate:


City: won it last year and got to be a favourite again this year. Sugar daddy owner with the ability to pump as much money in as he wants. Not a long list of honours historically, but doing well the last couple of years.


Chelsea: favourite again this year. Sugar daddy owner like City. Not a long list of honours historically but won plenty in recent years. Lampard replacement signed and the illusive striker they missed last year is there.


Arsenal: not sure how much of a favourite this year. Have always been a team at the top end of the table since time began. Had a historic season that I think will never be matched. Still looking for that elusive CL title though, but now the stadium is paid off there will be more money for team investment. Long history of success but been thin on the ground in recent years. Sanchez is a great signing but still wondering where the midfield general is going to come from. But there is still time for that.


United: not sure what this season holds, can they bring in the players they need? Great history of honours and very successful in recent times too. Money is there to spend, but no CL footie to temp players with. Could be an interesting season for them, but with a good coach in now and with some more good signings they will defiantly be back up there challenging.

Liverpool: 2nd last year and looking for another good season. Suarez has gone but major investment in the 1st team and squad in general being made. Plenty of money still sat there to make a couple of big signings to have a good season in both the CL and PL. Long history of honours that is amost second to none, but apart from a CL title and some cups, the last 20 years have been a bit bleak.
		
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City - Will be favourites and think they will win the league a lot easier this season - have strengthened in the right areas and their squad is a world apart

Chelsea - I think Costa is a one season wonder and will not score the goals needed to take them past City - Not sure where Fabregas fits as he got rid of Mata who is the same sort of player. Drogba - well bit desperate to bring him back - expect them to be around 2nd or 3rd

Arsenal - The same as every season -not strengthening the areas that they really need - Sanchez will add a cutting edge but will expect them to tail off - 4th

Utd - lack a lot of quality in that squad - a lot of poo needed polishing in that squad - so many holes at the back and in the middle - 5th i reckon

US - losing Suarez was a blow - quite happy with the signings - think Can and Markovic will be very good but need time - think we still need two or three players - a quality CM and another striker - think we will end up 3rd


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			German Football get a big helping hand financially from local governments and the overall government

Bayern new stadium for example cost them nothing to build , costs them nothing to run yet they get the proceeds from the matches etc 

The German model is great for the fans but unworkable in the UK
		
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I'm not saying we should follow them outright  but we should certainly take a leaf out  of their book re ticket prices. There is enough money in football for  ticket prices to be affordable.

Most fans are being shafted  and there has to come a time where the authorities take responsibility and sort it out.


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I do love a good debate on football, but *why do people have to be so blinkered about things*.
		
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Because that is the nature of the true Fan!

Yet again it has to be pointed out that Arsenal has not paid off the stadium! There's something like Â£240m outstanding and this won't be paid off until 2031 - current rates are Â£6m Capital, 13m Interest. There are apparently penalties if it paid off earlier!

It's manageable and there may have been some bond-holders paid off in the last couple of years, but it's only the likes of the Daily Mail that pushes the notion that it's actually paid off!

They are, of course, completely free of any potential FFP trouble - unlike some other Clubs!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I'm not saying we should follow them outright  but we should certainly take a leaf out  of their book re ticket prices. There is enough money in football for  ticket prices to be affordable.

Most fans are being shafted  and there has to come a time where the authorities take responsibility and sort it out.
		
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The problem is clubs cant afford to lower their prices - its a massive snowball effect coming from players wages , transfer fees , running costs of the club - Arsenals tickets are so high to help them pay off the stadium. 

If tickets are reduced the the money will need to be made up from somewhere else ?

Thats how German club allow fans to be able to buy Season Tickets for Â£150 - their outgoings are far far less


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The problem is clubs cant afford to lower their prices - its a massive snowball effect coming from players wages , transfer fees , running costs of the club - Arsenals tickets are so high to help them pay off the stadium. 

If tickets are reduced the the money will need to be made up from somewhere else ?

Thats how German club allow fans to be able to buy Season Tickets for Â£150 - their outgoings are far far less
		
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I understand your point but  I'm sure clubs could afford to lower ticket prices if they lowered wages and crazy transfer fees.

But whilst nothing gets done about it ticket prices will increase because clubs can't afford to reduce them.

I wonder how long it will be until the 1st Â£100 league ticket will be?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I understand your point but  I'm sure clubs could afford to lower ticket prices *if they lowered wages and crazy transfer fees.
*
But whilst nothing gets done about it ticket prices will increase because clubs can't afford to reduce them.

I wonder how long it will be until the 1st Â£100 league ticket will be?
		
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Already has been a Â£100 league ticket - at Arsenal

Whilst the money comes in from Sky etc the players will want their share - they dont want to miss out so if teams want the better players then need to pay the big wages to get the better team to attract the fans etc - vicious circle of money

Other clubs around Europe can afford the pay the high wages and keep the ticket prices down - English clubs cant


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I understand your point but  I'm sure clubs could afford to lower ticket prices if they lowered wages and crazy transfer fees.

But whilst nothing gets done about it ticket prices will increase because clubs can't afford to reduce them.

I wonder how long it will be until the 1st Â£100 league ticket will be?
		
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Transfer fees seemed to calm down a bit,obviously the top players were going for big money but now Â£20m+ just seems to get you a decent player.


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Bigger stadiums,with greater revenue and sponsorship should  mean  cheaper tickets.
		
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If you think that is ever likely to happen, then it demonstrates fans are more blinkered than even I thought!

As for a 'German style' model, West Ham are scheduled to move into Olympic Stadium in 2016. Of course, that won't reduce their (season) ticket prices!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



_Already has been a Â£100 league ticket - at Arsenal_

Whilst the money comes in from Sky etc the players will want their share - they dont want to miss out so if teams want the better players then need to pay the big wages to get the better team to attract the fans etc - vicious circle of money

*Other clubs around Europe can afford the pay the high wages and keep the ticket prices down - English clubs cant*

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Really?

Greed by any chance??

Its all about making a profit and lining there own pockets.

Footballers get paid handsomely enough so when sponsorship increases, surely the fans should benefit from the windfall?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			If you think that is ever likely to happen, then it demonstrates fans are more blinkered than even I thought!

As for a 'German style' model, West Ham are scheduled to move into Olympic Stadium in 2016. Of course, that won't reduce their (season) ticket prices!
		
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Bigger stadiums,with greater revenue and sponsorship *should *mean cheaper tickets.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Really?

Greed by any chance??

Its all about making a profit and lining there own pockets.

Footballers get paid handsomely enough so when sponsorship increases, surely the fans should benefit from the windfall?
		
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But how many clubs actually make a profit overall - how many owners take home a nice juicy profit each year ? - pretty much none.

In fact most owners have piled millions upon millions into their clubs. 

The profit is possibly made when they sell up.

Yes tickets should but would mean a reduction in the quality on the pitch. 

the ticket prices are high to pay for the players fees and wages and pay of debts and stadiums etc


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Transfer fees seemed to calm down a bit,obviously the top players were going for big money but now Â£20m+ just seems to get you a decent player.
		
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I know its madness. 

Its the ignorant response from clubs,we can't afford to do it, our competitors charge Â£xxx , a trip to the theatre costs Â£xxx etc etc that really get up my nose.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But how many clubs actually make a profit overall - how many owners take home a nice juicy profit each year ? - pretty much none.

In fact most owners have piled millions upon millions into their clubs. 

The profit is possibly made when they sell up.

*Yes tickets should but would mean a reduction in the quality on the pitch. 
*
the ticket prices are high to pay for the players fees and wages and pay of debts and stadiums etc
		
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Not if there was a proper regulated system in place it wouldn't.

I can remember 2 yanks and their families  at Liverpool fleecing the club left right and centre.

I bet the Glazers have certainly had something out of United after putting very little in.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Because that is the nature of the true Fan!
		
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The problem is the blinkers go on and there's an awful lot of rubbish written but people also fail to appreciate valid points. I got bored of people not even acknowledging key points to counter arguments. It happens a lot on football threads here and a shame as there are some passionate fans who talk with sense but others who are too blinded by their support for their own side. I can't see it changing anytime soon sadly.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Not if there was a proper regulated system in place it wouldn't.

I can remember 2 yanks and their families  at Liverpool fleecing the club left right and centre.

I bet the Glazers have certainly had something out of United after putting very little in.
		
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They attempted to fleece the club but failed - they walked away loosing a lot of money.

The Glazers have the club in debt and have had nothing but will gain the profits from any sale 

FFP is the regulated system - but its weighted - if you start bringing in wage caps then it must be across the whole of UEFA - that wont happen because other countries ticket prices are ok because of governemtn help


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But how many clubs actually make a profit overall - how many owners take home a nice juicy profit each year ? - pretty much none.
		
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According to the Accounts summary I've seen for y/e 2013 (latest available), 8 made profit; 12 made losses!

The losses, however, were vastly more than the profits - Â£50m (after previous year's Â£41m) by Liverpool, 52m/99m by City, 65m/23m by QPR, 56m/4m by Chelsea, 31m/10m bt Stoke, 13m.32m by Sunderland, 4m/24m by West Ham. Swansea had the largest Profit (21m/17m) with only Arsenal close over the 2 years (7m/37m). 

Newcastle's profit (10m) and apparent lack of ambition, also known as sensible financial management, didn't endear Mike Ashley to the fans, but that's the blinkered nature of fans!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			According to the Accounts summary I've seen for y/e 2013 (latest available), 8 made profit; 12 made losses!

The losses, however, were vastly more than the profits - Â£50m (after previous year's Â£41m) by Liverpool, 52m/99m by City, 65m/23m by QPR, 56m/4m by Chelsea, 31m/10m bt Stoke, 13m.32m by Sunderland, 4m/24m by West Ham. Swansea had the largest Profit (21m/17m) with only Arsenal close over the 2 years (7m/37m). 

Newcastle's profit (10m) and apparent lack of ambition, also known as sensible financial management, didn't endear Mike Ashley to the fans, but that's the blinkered nature of fans!
		
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But even Ashley has lost hundreds of millions over the years 

And yes the fans want to see the better players , they want to see great football , they want to see trophies and success - that cost clubs money now - looking for profit doesn equate to profit


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And yes the fans want to see the better players , they want to see great football , they want to see trophies and success - that cost clubs money now - looking for profit doesn equate to profit
		
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Not true. As a Fulham fan and even on our European odyssey, it has always been about the quality of the play. As long as the side is playing a certain way, we've always been realistic to know we're not going to win too much. Even back in the bad old days of the old fourth division, as long as the team played the Fulham way, the fans were prepared to put up with an awful lot. Given the Bulstrode debacle around that time and Clay doing deals behind the clubs back, it certainly wasn't about the pounds shillings and pence and the fans wanted to be entertained. Unless you are a supporter of a top 6 PL side most supporters are happy that a) their side doesn't go down and b) entertains. Most know there's little to no chance of a trophy


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not true. As a Fulham fan and even on our European odyssey, it has always been about the quality of the play. As long as the side is playing a certain way, we've always been realistic to know we're not going to win too much. Even back in the bad old days of the old fourth division, as long as the team played the Fulham way, the fans were prepared to put up with an awful lot. Given the Bulstrode debacle around that time and Clay doing deals behind the clubs back, it certainly wasn't about the pounds shillings and pence and the fans wanted to be entertained. Unless you are a supporter of a top 6 PL side most supporters are happy that a) their side doesn't go down and b) entertains. Most know there's little to no chance of a trophy
		
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Hence why i said in my post that fans want to see great football - 

And for sides to stay in the premier league they need to buy the better players hence why sides pile lots of money into staying up and why they get parachute payments to enable them to still pay the higher wages.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2014)

You said they want to see trophies and success.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You said they want to see trophies and success.
		
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It was a generic statement that covers all aspects of what a fan wants to see


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But even Ashley has lost hundreds of millions over the years
		
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Has he?

Can you point me to the figures?

He's certainly invested hundreds of millions - a) buying the club b) further investment to get it back on its feet and c) interest free loan(s). But much of that was his own (lack of Due Diligence) fault. The club was in a much greater mess than he (as a fan!) realised through the negotiations! Basically, it was bust and with further obligations due - and he paid over 130m for that liability!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was a generic statement that covers all aspects of what a fan wants to see
		
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Different night and more goalpost shifting. It was clearly not a generic statement


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Different night and more goalpost shifting. It was clearly not a generic statement
		
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This is my statement 

*they want to see great football , they want to see trophies and success* 

Its generic about what fans want to see. That covers all fans from all walks of life without going specifics

No goalposts have been shift.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is my statement 

*they want to see great football , they want to see trophies and success* 

Its generic about what fans want to see. That covers all fans from all walks of life without going specifics

No goalposts have been shift.
		
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It almost lasted a whole page without you two bickering!!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This is my statement 

*they want to see great football , they want to see trophies and success* 

Its generic about what fans want to see. That covers all fans from all walks of life without going specifics

No goalposts have been shift.
		
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So the likes of Fulham, Bury and Crewe for the want of three clubs are going to get trophies and success. You have a very blinkered life from your lofty PL perch. Most fans, especially the trues ones shelling out chunks to follow their side all over the country do so more in hope than any form of expectation. I've followed Fulham home and away when we were in the real depths going to the likes of Grimsby on a January Tuesday. Do you honestly think that's what we went along to see. A trophy, successful side. As I said (and you ignored) most fans are happy watching a side put a different shift in. Most are never going to see scintillating football and household names (unless well on their way to retirement)

Like I say, blinded by the PL bright lights and yes I feel you are picking and choosing the points again so I'll give it a miss. I'm aware of the other posts and I don't want to have to justify every word as normal. I'm done with your nit picking


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So the likes of Fulham, Bury and Crewe for the want of three clubs are going to get trophies and success. 

.
.
.

Like I say, blinded by the PL bright lights and yes I feel you are picking and choosing the points again so I'll give it a miss. I'm aware of the other posts and I don't want to have to justify every word as normal. I'm done with your nit picking
		
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Don't you want to succeed (and win the Trophy) in The Championship?

Success for many clubs is avoiding relegation!

The thread is, however, about Liverpool - a PL side that might contend for the Title!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			It almost lasted a whole page without you two bickering!!!
		
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Sorry i had no intentions of bickering and never realised such a generic statement would cause such an issue - i just cant win so will leave it with him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Don't you want to succeed (and win the Trophy) in The Championship?

*Success for many clubs is avoiding relegation*!
		
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Exactly - success comes in many forms - winning trophies , gaining promotion , staying in the league , getting into Europe , getting to Wemberlee etc etc


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## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			What I'm more concerned about is clubs and owners making millions whilst us the fans are being ripped a new one with sky high ticket prices that is pricing people out of attending games.

People talk about salary caps etc but the 1st thing that should be capped is ticket prices , football should be accessible to all.

I appreciate that clubs need as much revenue as possible to compete but it shouldn't come at a cost to the fans. Especially with the amount of revenue they're already taking in through sponsorship

Look how Cheap the  German fans can access football compared to English fans.  

If and its a very big if FFP is policed correctly then yes Arsenals model will survive better than most.

On a side note look at how United have been taken over by "foreign investors" and those investors have put very little of their own cash into it,yet placed a massive amount of debt onto the club.

Bigger stadiums,with greater revenue and sponsorship should  mean  cheaper tickets.
		
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Supply and demand big lad , more demand then supply , as long as someone is willing to pay it will go on , look at them overated golf courses in ireland and scotland , over a 100 quid to play , troon for example , over the wall same greenstaff and its 30 quid ..............


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Exactly - success comes in many forms - winning trophies , gaining promotion , staying in the league , getting into Europe , getting to Wemberlee etc etc
		
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You never mentioned promotion or staying up and it was all about success so yes there is a shift. How many fans outside the top of the PL  think of Europe or Wembley. I'm realistic enough to assume that even getting into the play off this season isn't a given let alone winning the title. What about fans from most of the nationwide? What do they dream off?

Your replies are cherry picking more and more and adding more and more elements to justify the point. You can never concede a point or accept alternative views. Done with this and back on ignore you go Phil


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## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So the likes of Fulham, Bury and Crewe for the want of three clubs are going to get trophies and success. You have a very blinkered life from your lofty PL perch. Most fans, especially the trues ones shelling out chunks to follow their side all over the country do so more in hope than any form of expectation. I've followed Fulham home and away when we were in the real depths going to the likes of Grimsby on a January Tuesday. Do you honestly think that's what we went along to see. A trophy, successful side. As I said (and you ignored) most fans are happy watching a side put a different shift in. Most are never going to see scintillating football and household names (unless well on their way to retirement)


Well said , i still go to AFC Bournemouth every so often , even went to wembley we we lost to grimsby on the golden goal , enjoyed that day ....................
		
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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			...i still go to AFC Bournemouth every so often , even went to wembley we we lost to grimsby on the golden goal , enjoyed that day ....................
		
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Soccer Saturday is more entertaining when 'the monkey-hangers' are playing - specially if they have a chance to win!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Has he?

Can you point me to the figures?

He's certainly invested hundreds of millions - a) buying the club b) further investment to get it back on its feet and c) interest free loan(s). But much of that was his own (lack of Due Diligence) fault. The club was in a much greater mess than he (as a fan!) realised through the negotiations! Basically, it was bust and with further obligations due - and he paid over 130m for that liability!
		
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i think i read somewhere that Newcastle owe him around Â£260 million - but that does include the purchase price ( about 90 - 100 million )


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:





HomerJSimpson said:



			So the likes of Fulham, Bury and Crewe for the want of three clubs are going to get trophies and success. You have a very blinkered life from your lofty PL perch. Most fans, especially the trues ones shelling out chunks to follow their side all over the country do so more in hope than any form of expectation. I've followed Fulham home and away when we were in the real depths going to the likes of Grimsby on a January Tuesday. Do you honestly think that's what we went along to see. A trophy, successful side. As I said (and you ignored) most fans are happy watching a side put a different shift in. Most are never going to see scintillating football and household names (unless well on their way to retirement)


Well said , i still go to AFC Bournemouth every so often , even went to wembley we we lost to grimsby on the golden goal , enjoyed that day ....................
		
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Pop along to watch MKdons a few times and have even braved Luton - they finally got back into the league this year.
		
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## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think i read somewhere that Newcastle owe him around Â£260 million - but that does include the purchase price ( about 90 - 100 million )
		
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Read somewhere , more like made it up , the goal post is outside the stadium now


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## SaintHacker (Jul 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've followed Fulham home and away when we were in the real depths going to the likes of Grimsby on a January Tuesday.
		
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I'll see your Grimsby and raise you a Hartlepool on a tuesday night!

All joking aside, which moron looks at what the fixture computer spits out and allows fixtures like that to happen?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			Read somewhere , more like made it up , the goal post is outside the stadium now  

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http://www.nufcblog.com/2013/06/06/newcastle-owe-mike-ashley-over-quarter-of-a-billion-pounds/


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## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.nufcblog.com/2013/06/06/newcastle-owe-mike-ashley-over-quarter-of-a-billion-pounds/

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Yep made up by someone else and used by you , who is next in at Liverpool , Torres is for sale


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			I'll see your Grimsby and raise you a Hartlepool on a tuesday night!

All joking aside, which moron looks at what the fixture computer spits out and allows fixtures like that to happen?
		
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They certaibnly seem to make sure the "random" fixtures throw up the juicy fixtures at the right time.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			Yep made up by someone else and used by you , who is next in at Liverpool , Torres is for sale
		
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Hahahahahaha come on JCW, you've just accused LP of making it up, he's given you the direct link and your still not happy give it a break.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

SaintHacker said:



			I'll see your Grimsby and raise you a Hartlepool on a tuesday night!

All joking aside, which moron looks at what the fixture computer spits out and allows fixtures like that to happen?
		
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My best was watching Dover beat Havant n waterloovile as the mother in law was tea lady for Dover. They loved me in my saints gear!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			Yep made up by someone else and used by you , who is next in at Liverpool , Torres is for sale
		
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You asked him where he read it and he showed you. 

Jeez you are one aren't ya!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 30, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			My best was watching Dover beat Havant n waterloovile as the mother in law was tea lady for Dover. They loved me in my saints gear!
		
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Remember watching Havant against us in the FA Cup - they had a great match and gave us a right fright


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## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Hahahahahaha come on JCW, you've just accused LP of making it up, he's given you the direct link and your still not happy give it a break.
		
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Ok mate , sorry but he must in the moving business , goal post that is ................haha ..........bed now Golf in the morning , 39 points in comp today so cut back to cat 1 maybe ..............love this weather ...................EYG


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			Yep made up by someone else and used by you , who is next in at Liverpool , Torres is for sale
		
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Nar hasn't been as good since he knocked you out of the CL Qf's, oh what a night that was.

 What a game.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Remember watching Havant against us in the FA Cup - they had a great match and gave us a right fright
		
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I remember that on TV, fortunately I could wear my shirt with pride that night as Dover beat Pompey (havant).


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## Foxholer (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i think i read somewhere that Newcastle owe him around Â£260 million - but that does include the purchase price ( about 90 - 100 million )
		
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So he hasn't lost it (yet). As you stated, the asset profit/loss only gets realised when the Club is sold!

There was/is 130m interest free loan - recoverable in all likelihood (11m was paid back in 2012/13). That would be included in the 260m number no doubt.

No figures, no argument!

Total purchase cost was around 134m, so only about 50% wrong there. Though interesting how that and the loan add up to around 260m!

Is this the article (or report) btw? http://www.themag.co.uk/the-mag-art...-much-money-newcastle-united-owe-mike-ashley/ The 'debt' DOES include the purchase price! 

Edit: different article; same Delloitte report - and  both articles specified it include purchase cost!

You shouldn't believe everything you read btw! I've seen a Daily Mail headline that states/implies Arsenal's stadium is 'paid off', but that's only about 240m wrong!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

Great game last night - good old win on pens 

Was impressed with Can - signs that he could possibly be a beast of a player in the middle with an eye for a pass

And Sterling is going to be a global world class player - the lad just gets better each time , Ibe as well has the potential to follow him. Future is certianly bright


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## Fish (Jul 31, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I think all that Chelsea was missing last season was a top striker,With the arrival of Costa & return of Drogba I can't wait for the season to start. Would have liked Lukaku to stay tho..
		
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Good business IMO, nobody is bigger than the club and nobody can demand a regular place, he had a poor world cup and has looked good in a poor side and an (above) average side so no guarantee he'd cut it at Chelsea!

We now have Â£135m in the treasure chest from 4 sales, Athletico Madrid is interested in Torres but I have no issues with him personally, with creative midfielder's and goal scorers from that midfield taking pressure off the strikers, I think were in very good shape, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else arrive now after that latest sale.

Jose doesn't get it wrong very often so no requirement to start doubting him now, this is HIS team now so nowhere to hide.  I think with Schurrle and Hazard running at defences along with Salah and then Oscar and Fabregas doing their bit and then not forgeting Costa banging them in for fun, I think we have a very good forward line it could suit Torres far more than what he's had before as the service now could be what made him so great at Liverpool who built around him, but if he goes, he goes, no problem either way for me :thup:

How could he (Lukaku) be first choice over Costa?

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...reasons-behind-romelu-lukakus-move-to-everton


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

I think potentially Lukaku is a better player all round than Costa - looking at Costas record and it's very mediocre up until last season just over a hundred goals in his career whilst Lukaku despite being a good number of years younger is on nearly 80. 

The difference is Costa for Chelsea is ready made right now - Chelsea deal with players that are ready to play , there is no developing of players for future at the moment it's getting players in to do the job - in fact I think that's Maureen's career - I can't think of many youngsters that he has developed and brought thorough his youth systems at any of his clubs ? That's what Lukaku needs - developing and polishing off and when that happens he will be a beast of a player - better than what Drogba was for you.

I think Chelsea should have saved the money for Costa and given Lukaku that role up front supported by Hazard etc - think that would have given you the edge to beat City - but I don't see it with Costa - nowhere near mobile enough.


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## richy (Jul 31, 2014)

Fish said:



			Good business IMO, nobody is bigger than the club and nobody can demand a regular place, he had a poor world cup and has looked good in a poor side and an (above) average side so no guarantee he'd cut it at Chelsea!

We now have Â£135m in the treasure chest from 4 sales, Athletico Madrid is interested in Torres but I have no issues with him personally, with creative midfielder's and goal scorers from that midfield taking pressure off the strikers, I think were in very good shape, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else arrive now after that latest sale.

Jose doesn't get it wrong very often so no requirement to start doubting him now, this is HIS team now so nowhere to hide.  I think with Schurrle and Hazard running at defences along with Salah and then Oscar and Fabregas doing their bit and then not forgeting Costa banging them in for fun, I think we have a very good forward line it could suit Torres far more than what he's had before as the service now could be what made him so great at Liverpool who built around him, but if he goes, he goes, no problem either way for me :thup:

How could he (Lukaku) be first choice over Costa?

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...reasons-behind-romelu-lukakus-move-to-everton

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Because Costa had a great World Cup, don't even think he touched the ball.


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## Fish (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think potentially Lukaku is a better player all round than Costa - looking at Costas record and it's very mediocre up until last season just over a hundred goals in his career whilst Lukaku despite being a good number of years younger is on nearly 80. 

The difference is Costa for Chelsea is ready made right now - Chelsea deal with players that are ready to play , there is no developing of players for future at the moment it's getting players in to do the job - in fact I think that's Maureen's career - I can't think of many youngsters that he has developed and brought thorough his youth systems at any of his clubs ? That's what Lukaku needs - developing and polishing off and when that happens he will be a beast of a player - better than what Drogba was for you.

I think Chelsea should have saved the money for Costa and given Lukaku that role up front supported by Hazard etc - think that would have given you the edge to beat City - but I don't see it with Costa - nowhere near mobile enough.
		
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I disagree 



richy said:



			Because Costa had a great World Cup, don't even think he touched the ball.
		
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I've not compared Costa's non existent world cup to Lukaku, more a case that Lukaku had an opportunity to shine on a bigger stage and didn't take it and showed no desire IMO to grab it either, I think he was too good for the baggies and shone accordingly and is about right for Everton in that top of the 2nd tier in the prem just under the top 4/5. I think, he thinks he's better than he is at the moment and maybe the Everton manager will be good for him and ground him and get the best out of him as he'll be their main star, where-as at Chelsea he wouldn't be at this time in his unproven career in the top flight.

IMO :smirk:


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2014)

Fish said:



			Good business IMO, nobody is bigger than the club and nobody can demand a regular place, he had a poor world cup and has looked good in a poor side and an (above) average side so no guarantee he'd cut it at Chelsea!

We now have Â£135m in the treasure chest from 4 sales, Athletico Madrid is interested in Torres but I have no issues with him personally, with creative midfielder's and goal scorers from that midfield taking pressure off the strikers, I think were in very good shape, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else arrive now after that latest sale.

Jose doesn't get it wrong very often so no requirement to start doubting him now, this is HIS team now so nowhere to hide.  I think with Schurrle and Hazard running at defences along with Salah and then Oscar and Fabregas doing their bit and then not forgeting Costa banging them in for fun, I think we have a very good forward line it could suit Torres far more than what he's had before as the service now could be what made him so great at Liverpool who built around him, but if he goes, he goes, no problem either way for me :thup:

How could he (Lukaku) be first choice over Costa?

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...reasons-behind-romelu-lukakus-move-to-everton

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Agree excellent business. Lukaku will go on to be a top player but Â£28m with I tidy profit,can't really say no.
Costa looked good last night & a nice goal from Fabregas. 
Chelsea's squad looks awesome


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Fish said:



			I disagree 



I've not compared Costa's non existent world cup to Lukaku, more a case that Lukaku had an opportunity to shine on a bigger stage and didn't take it and showed no desire IMO to grab it either, I think he was too good for the baggies and shone accordingly and is about right for Everton in that top of the 2nd tier in the prem just under the top 4/5. I think, he thinks he's better than he is at the moment and maybe the Everton manager will be good for him and ground him and get the best out of him as he'll be their main star, where-as at Chelsea he wouldn't be at this time in his unproven career in the top flight.

IMO :smirk:
		
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Hey Fish , dont bother , Liverpool are the best team Never to win the PL ..................as for costa & Lakaku , Jose does not fancy Lakaku , end off ........................EYG


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Hey Fish , dont bother , *Liverpool are the best team Never to win the PL *..................as for costa & Lakaku , Jose does not fancy Lakaku , end off ........................EYG
		
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What does that statement have to do with what Fish has said about Lukaku ?


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What does that statement have to do with what Fish has said about Lukaku ?
		
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Cant help but stick yer nose in , my reply was to Fish not you ..................EYG


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Cant help but stick yer nose in , my reply was to Fish not you ..................EYG
		
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You keep posting little digs at other people's clubs on football threads - can you please stop now and just stick with the subject 

Fish post had zero mention about Liverpool and was about signings.

Now onto Liverpool signings 

Looks like we are unsure about Moreno now - Robbo is impressing pre season at the moment 

Still rumblings about Lavezzi and Vidal plus the Columbians Quadrado


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## Birchy (Jul 31, 2014)

Lukaku is more Heskey than Costa. 

Reminds me a bit of Adebayor as well where he does well for a bit then puts his feet up and has a rest once people start praising him. I think Chelsea have done great to sell him for Â£28 million.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Lukaku is more Heskey than Costa. 

Reminds me a bit of Adebayor as well where he does well for a bit then puts his feet up and has a rest once people start praising him. I think Chelsea have done great to sell him for Â£28 million.
		
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Both players that get most of their goals earlier in the season as well


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## Foxholer (Jul 31, 2014)

Papas1982 said:





JCW said:



			Yep made up by someone else and used by you , who is next in at Liverpool , Torres is for sale
		
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You asked him where he read it and he showed you. 

Jeez you are one aren't ya!
		
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Indeed demonstrating how blinkered some (seems to be most in certain clubs!) fans can be!

Had he bothered to read the article, he should have noted the couple of (serious) discrepancies (unusual imo) between the article and LPP's original post about it. 

With all these comings and goings at this stage, the last week of August could be chaotic! Liverpool does seem to have made their 'major moves' quite early! Has the 'dodgy at the back' issue been solved - with cover? I've lost track a bit on that one - and it really seems to be something that's not properly found out until the real 'battle' (season) starts - as it's more a communication/combination thing imo.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Indeed demonstrating how blinkered some (seems to be most in certain clubs!) fans can be!

Had he bothered to read the article, he should have noted the couple of (serious) discrepancies between the article and LPP's original post about it.

With all these comings and goings at this stage, the last week of August could be chaotic! Liverpool does seem to have made their 'major moves' quite early! Has the 'dodgy at the back' issue been solved - with cover? I've lost track a bit on that one - and it really seems to be something that's not properly found out until the real 'battle' (season) starts - as it's more a communication/combination thing imo.
		
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My initial statement was 

"I think I read somewhere that Newcastle owe Ashely around Â£260mil but the figure included the purchase price" 

Do Newcastle owe Ashely around Â£260mil according to the article I read - yes 

Does it include the purchase price - yes 

Did I get that price wrong - yes 

How does that make me blinkered and I'm not exactly sure why you are taking that very loose statement to such extremes.


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## DAVEYBOY (Jul 31, 2014)

I'm not sure whats been said in this thread but as far as Lukaku is concerned... That is a hell of a lot of money for a player who still has a lot to prove. 

I like Everton though so I hope he does well.


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## Foxholer (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My initial statement was 

"I think I read somewhere that Newcastle owe Ashely around Â£260mil but the figure included the purchase price" 

Do Newcastle owe Ashely around Â£260mil according to the article I read - yes 

Does it include the purchase price - yes 

Did I get that price wrong - yes 

How does that make me blinkered and I'm not exactly sure why you are taking that very loose statement to such extremes.
		
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Doh! *My* blunder! My eyes added a sneaky 'not' between 'does' and 'include' in your post!! 

The article, however, is all about what the clubs *owe* their owners, not what they've actually *lost* - which, surprisingly, seems to be not all that much in Newcastle/Ashley's case! I would have thought there'd be some yearly losses, though not the 'hundreds of millions' you posted earlier.

Your 'trigger' post that I queried was about Ashley l*osing* hundreds of millions! He doesn't appear to have done that (yet!)!



Liverpoolphil said:



			But even Ashley has lost hundreds of millions over the years
		
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The 'blinkered' comment wasn't about you (this time)! 

Now, back to Liverpool...


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2014)

#winning


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## MadAdey (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Hey Fish , dont bother , Liverpool are the best team Never to win the PL ..................as for costa & Lakaku , Jose does not fancy Lakaku , end off ........................EYG
		
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What is your problem? You turn every footie thread into an arguement. This thread started about Liverpool and the transfer window because what they do is going to have a huge bearing on how they progress from a good season last year. It has evolved a bit and all the top clubs are being discussed, which is cool. 

Why can't people debate football like adults rather than argueing like kids in a playground.


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## gmc40 (Jul 31, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 11738

#winning
		
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Lukaku is a good player. I can understand the humour in getting Â£50m for Sideshow Bob but don't get the mocking of the Lukaku transfer? He's been Chelsea's best striker the last 2 years, however was playing for other clubs. Seems like some fans are reverting to saving face.


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Latest rumour news is Stevie G is going to USA for one last big payday , Rogers looking to add more to squad , wanted Lakuku but blues in 1st for 28k , wow a lot of money for a player thats yet to prove himself ....................EYG


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Lukaku is a good player. I can understand the humour in getting Â£50m for Sideshow Bob but don't get the mocking of the Lukaku transfer? He's been Chelsea's best striker the last 2 years, however was playing for other clubs. Seems like some fans are reverting to saving face.
		
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I poersonally think the transfer is win win for everyone. Lukaku will get the toffees 15/20 every season as he'll be e main man. But as his antics shiwed during the wc. If he's no playing he sulks. So a good return fee for Chelsea for a player who wouldn't for them and a player who if he fulfils his potential at Everton could still see then turn a profit.


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## gmc40 (Jul 31, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I poersonally think the transfer is win win for everyone. Lukaku will get the toffees 15/20 every season as he'll be e main man. But as his antics shiwed during the wc. If he's no playing he sulks. So a good return fee for Chelsea for a player who wouldn't for them and a player who if he fulfils his potential at Everton could still see then turn a profit.
		
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I agree it's a win win. Jose didn't want him, we did so everyone's happy. It's the childish posts such as the one I quoted I am referring to. Typical of 14 year olds in the school playground but not adults on a Golf Forum.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Latest rumour news is Stevie G is going to USA for one last big payday , Rogers looking to add more to squad , wanted Lakuku but blues in 1st for 28k , wow a lot of money for a player thats yet to prove himself ....................EYG
		
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Gerrard has just signed a new deal with the club - where did you get this rumour from about going to the states


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Lukaku is a good player. I can understand the humour in getting Â£50m for Sideshow Bob but don't get the mocking of the Lukaku transfer? He's been Chelsea's best striker the last 2 years, however was playing for other clubs. Seems like some fans are reverting to saving face.
		
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Not trying to save face at all,I've already stated that I would have liked Lukaku to stay. But sounds like he wanted to be the main man & Jose doesn't really like that. Â£28m is very good business. Everton have got a quality player & Lukaku will be the main man at a good club. Win/Win/Win


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Latest rumour news is Stevie G is going to USA for one last big payday , Rogers looking to add more to squad , wanted Lakuku but blues in 1st for 28k , wow a lot of money for a player thats yet to prove himself ....................EYG
		
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How is he unproven? He's scored 15 goals a season in Orem last two years. They know what's they're getting. I'd say it's good business around. 

As as to Gerrard going to states. If he doesn't start the season at Liverpool this season then my names Harry Redknapp?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 31, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			I agree it's a win win. Jose didn't want him, we did so everyone's happy. It's the childish posts such as the one I quoted I am referring to. Typical of 14 year olds in the school playground but not adults on a Golf Forum.
		
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Jesus are you for real?? It's light hearted bit of banter. This place is getting worse


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			How is he unproven? He's scored 15 goals a season in Orem last two years. They know what's they're getting. I'd say it's good business around. 

As as to Gerrard going to states. If he doesn't start the season at Liverpool this season then my names Harry Redknapp?
		
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Ok Harry , B/R says he wont end his days at Liverpool , did not say went he be going .............maybe fans still blame him for title lost last year , who knows and wants away , dont blame him as nothink to prove .


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Ok Harry , B/R says he wont end his days at Liverpool , did not say went he be going .............maybe fans still blame him for title lost last year , who knows and wants away , dont blame him as nothink to prove .
		
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Where is BR saying this ? can you produce the article or the snippet etc that shows what BR is saying. When the reports are going on about him signing a new contract


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Ok Harry , B/R says he wont end his days at Liverpool , did not say went he be going .............maybe fans still blame him for title lost last year , who knows and wants away , dont blame him as nothink to prove .
		
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Would you care for a wager? Name your terms. 
Gerrard could easily end his career in his forties abroad but he retired from England to purely concentrate on his Liverpool career.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where is BR saying this ? can you produce the article or the snippet etc that shows what BR is saying. When the reports are going on about him signing a new contract
		
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http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...-Gerrard-is-open-to-finishing-career-overseas

Only one I could find. Although nithing about br or going this season.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2014)

Lukaku will be all the better for getting a regular run for Everton and I think will be come a better player for it. I'm unconvinced he's a proven scorer in the Aguerro, Henry category but I think he'll get 15+ goals per season


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## chris661 (Jul 31, 2014)

Here is an idea, how about calming down a touch or this thread is finished. Sound ok?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lukaku will be all the better for getting a regular run for Everton and I think will be come a better player for it. I'm unconvinced he's a proven scorer in the Aguerro, Henry category but I think he'll get 15+ goals per season
		
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I agree with this. And if he scores 15 year in year out then it's been good business for Everton. And Chelsea also as the top teams need someone who will get them 25+


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

chris661 said:



			Here is an idea, how about calming down a touch or this thread is finished. Sound ok?
		
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Anybody else ready the final two words in a scouse accent? 

No, just me?


sorry guys!


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## Foxholer (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where is BR saying this ? can you produce the article or the snippet etc that shows what BR is saying. When the reports are going on about him signing a new contract
		
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Notwithstanding my opinion that JCW's post/opinion was wrong, haven't you realised that contracts in Football are either full of exit loopholes or totally meaningless?!


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Notwithstanding my opinion that JCW's post/opinion was wrong, haven't you realised that contracts in Football are either full of exit loopholes or totally meaningless?!
		
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I get and updated email and its on there that he in talks and nothink signed yet which means anythink can happen


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			I get and updated email and its on there that he in talks and nothink signed yet which means anythink can happen
		
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Have you decided terms for a bet yet?


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Have you decided terms for a bet yet?
		
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I dont gamble , sorry its against my faith .....................


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## Foxholer (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			I get and updated email and its on there that he in talks and nothink signed yet which means anythink can happen
		
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Bizarre!

Wasn't that what your post 642 and/or 645 was implying others were doing? 

So because he's in negotiations over a renewed contract, but hasn't signed yet, that means he's leaving! Truly bizarre!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Latest rumour news is Stevie G is going to USA for one last big payday , Rogers looking to add more to squad , wanted Lakuku but blues in 1st for 28k , wow a lot of money for a player thats yet to prove himself ....................EYG
		
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It's just  a rumour he's going.

Ive read the actual quote in the local paper and he hasn't ruled it out or in as " the carrot hasn't been dangled yet".


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Bizarre!

Wasn't that what your post 642 and/or 645 was implying others were doing? 

So because he's in negotiations over a renewed contract, but hasn't signed yet, that means he's leaving! Truly bizarre!
		
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Does not mean he is staying either unless you are his agent and know better , could be putting it out that if the right money was offered he would take it , no loyality these days , only to cash


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			It's just  a rumour he's going.

Ive read the actual quote in the local paper and he hasn't ruled it out or in as " the carrot hasn't been dangled yet".
		
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He basically said that one day he could possibly maybe if he wanted too could go over there - its a nothing quote he gave becausde they are over there


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			It's just  a rumour he's going.

Ive read the actual quote in the local paper and he hasn't ruled it out or in as " the carrot hasn't been dangled yet".
		
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But in that article, he's clearly talking in the future. Not this season as was implied.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Does not mean he is staying either unless you are his agent and know better , could be putting it out that if the right money was offered he would take it , no loyality these days , only to cash
		
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Yeah of course that's true, because he left for Chelsea when the money was offered. He can go to America and get the cash when he's no longer good enough. He'll not go this season.


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah of course that's true, because he left for Chelsea when the money was offered. He can go to America and get the cash when he's no longer good enough. He'll not go this season.
		
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Well you hoping he does not , but these day in football you never know , Cecs left Barca , never thought he do that and for chelsea


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## Stuart_C (Jul 31, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			But in that article, he's clearly talking in the future. Not this season as was implied.
		
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Here's the final part of the exact article,

*Gerrard is about to enter his 17th season of top-flight football for Liverpool but admits he hasn't completely ruled out playing abroad before he finally hangs up his boots.

His former England team-mate Frank Lampard recently left Chelsea to sign for new Major League Soccer side New York City FC, who are co-owned by Manchester City and the New York Yankees.

â€œI think Frank has made a great decision,â€ he added. â€œAt his age 36, he's had a wonderful career and I don't think he has anything to prove in England in any more.

â€œHe's broken records with Chelsea and won everything with them. I think it's a perfect move for him at his move.

â€œOne day that might happen to me, I don't know. I've never really discussed it with anyone or thought about it.

â€œMaybe one day I would like the chance to go away from Liverpool for a short time and try something different. But I haven't given it much thought. That carrot hasn't been dangled yet*

That 2nd last paragraph confirms to me he's not definitely leaving as he'd never thought about it.


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## Foxholer (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Does not mean he is staying either unless you are his agent and know better , could be putting it out that if the right money was offered he would take it , no loyality these days , only to cash
		
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Anyone could start a rumour like that - for example Arsene Wenger could be retiring before the season starts, because he hasn't said he isnt! But to do so would be scurrilous!

You are simply flaming! 



JCW said:



			Read somewhere , more like made it up , the goal post is outside the stadium now  

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JCW said:



			Yep made up by someone else and used by you ,.....
		
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Do the above look familiar? And describe what you've done?  Seems that way to me!

Truly, truly bizarre!


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Anyone could start a rumour like that - for example Arsene Wenger could be retiring before the season starts, because he hasn't said he isnt! But to do so would be scurrilous!

You are simply flaming! 





Do the above look familiar? And describe what you've done?  Seems that way to me!

Truly, truly bizarre! 

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Even Stuart c has posted it or have you not read that , i am just sayin its not a done deal thats all , is he or is he not , one thing is for sure he is passed his sell by date


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2014)

Much as I disagree with plenty of stuff on here about Liverpool and those that wear the blinkers and see nothing but red, this is at worse a nothing story and at best a space filler. He isn't going anywhere this season and I'd wager next either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Even Stuart c has posted it or have you not read that , i am just sayin its not a done deal thats all , is he or is he not , one thing is for sure he is passed his sell by date
		
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You said - *the latest rumour is that Gerrard is going to USA *- Stuart post ( which actually is what Gerarrd states ) clearly shows that he isnt going to the USA but who knows in the future.


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You said - *the latest rumour is that Gerrard is going to USA *- Stuart post ( which actually is what Gerarrd states ) clearly shows that he isnt going to the USA but who knows in the future.
		
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the future , big word , could men in an hour or tomorrow , like us humans , here today gone tomorrow


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			the future , big word , could men in an hour or tomorrow , like us humans , here today gone tomorrow
		
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Gerrard will not be leaving Liverpool this year - you can quote me on that.

This is a nonsense story. Simple as that


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gerrard will not be leaving Liverpool this year - you can quote me on that.

This is a nonsense story. Simple as that
		
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i can but unless i superglue the goalpost it will move again , i like him to stay there as they be weaker with him there , its best to let go sometimes but its not easy to do so he could be preparing his fans in a gentle way that he is going


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Gerrard will not be leaving Liverpool this year - you can quote me on that.

This is a nonsense story. Simple as that
		
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While I don't believe the story you also said Suarez wasn't going anywhere and we could quote you on that  :rofl::cheers:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			i can but unless i superglue the goalpost it will move again , i like him to stay there as they be weaker with him there , its best to let go sometimes but its not easy to do so he could be preparing his fans in a gentle way that he is going
		
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Still clearly better than anyone you have in that sitting role - helped destroy your midfield last season.

Any other Liverpool Transfer rumours you would like to sharE WITH US ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 31, 2014)

Apparently Rogers has put a joint Â£10m bid in for the Southampton tea lady and car park attendant


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## NWJocko (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still clearly better than anyone you have in that sitting role - helped destroy your midfield last season.

Any other Liverpool Transfer rumours you would like to sharE WITH US ?
		
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You do remember Arsenal beat Liverpool 2-0 last season don't you, aswell as the pumping at Anfield?

Gerrard won't leave this season, surprised if he ever does now tbh unless he isn't wanted/up to it but wants to carry on playing.


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## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still clearly better than anyone you have in that sitting role - helped destroy your midfield last season.

Any other Liverpool Transfer rumours you would like to sharE WITH US ?
		
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Lets get one fact straight , Liverpool played Arsenal 3 times and lost twice , as the sitting part , yeah he fell and sat down when ba scored and proved it were no fuke by repeating the dose in the world cup


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## Stuart_C (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Lets get one fact straight , Liverpool played Arsenal 3 times and lost twice , as the sitting part , *yeah he fell and sat down* when ba scored and _proved it were no fuke by repeating the dose in the world cup_

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Sorry to be pedantic but he never sat down when Ba scored.

Also he never fell/slipped/sat down when he nodded the ball back into Suarez to score the winner neither.

We only deal in facts according to some.


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## Foxholer (Jul 31, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Apparently Rogers has put a joint Â£10m bid in for the Southampton tea lady and car park attendant
		
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:rofl:
And Big Sam and Jose are battling over the team bus!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well you hoping he does not , but these day in football you never know , Cecs left Barca , never thought he do that and for chelsea
		
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Strong rumours that cest would leave last year so hardly a surprise. He'd already left barca once. I'm not hoping he won't either as have no thoughts on Liverpool either way. Just clear he won't go to us as he earns enough now and still wants to win meaningful titles with Liverpool. The us if for retirement funds!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2014)

Anyway back to transfer talk 

Its looking like we have our full backs sorted

The deal for Moreno is close to being completed - and Ayre also in Spain sorting out a deal for  Javier Manquillo

both young exciting prospects with Moreno being moved up to the Spanish squad

Just need the AM and Striker now


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## Papas1982 (Jul 31, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			:rofl:
And Big Sam and Jose are battling over the team bus!
		
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I saw our team bus at Bournemouth. Looks awesome, had a good turn of pace. Far too mobile for big sam!


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## Foxholer (Jul 31, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I saw our team bus at Bournemouth. Looks awesome, had a good turn of pace. Far too mobile for big sam!
		
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You mean it's still got the wheels on? Remarkable!

Wheels aren't needed for the role Sam has in mind!


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			, wanted Lakuku but blues in 1st for 28k , wow a lot of money for a player thats yet to prove himself ....................EYG
		
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You do realise that a "K" is a thousand, not a million.

Also, why do you speak like a yardie?


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## Fish (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			You do realise that a "K" is a thousand, not a million.

Also, why do you speak like a yardie?

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JCW is Malaysian so how you read his posts will be like reading broken English as some expressions he's trying to say are disjointed and lost in translation, so ease off off the personal attacks on how he is attempting to explain himself and just pick out the subject matter and respond to that please!


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## Fish (Aug 1, 2014)

Fish said:



			Good business IMO, nobody is bigger than the club and nobody can demand a regular place, he had a poor world cup and has looked good in a poor side and an (above) average side so no guarantee he'd cut it at Chelsea!

We now have Â£135m in the treasure chest from 4 sales, Athletico Madrid is interested in Torres but I have no issues with him personally, with creative midfielder's and goal scorers from that midfield taking pressure off the strikers, I think were in very good shape, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else arrive now after that latest sale.

Jose doesn't get it wrong very often so no requirement to start doubting him now, this is HIS team now so nowhere to hide.  I think with Schurrle and Hazard running at defences along with Salah and then Oscar and Fabregas doing their bit and then not forgeting Costa banging them in for fun, I think we have a very good forward line it could suit Torres far more than what he's had before as the service now could be what made him so great at Liverpool who built around him, but if he goes, he goes, no problem either way for me :thup:

How could he (Lukaku) be first choice over Costa?

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...reasons-behind-romelu-lukakus-move-to-everton

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Oh and I forgot, throw in a Drogba for good measure with those named above, frightening


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 1, 2014)

Fish said:



			JCW is Malaysian so how you read his posts will be like reading broken English as some expressions he's trying to say are disjointed and lost in translation, so ease off off the personal attacks on how he is attempting to explain himself and just pick out the subject matter and respond to that please!
		
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I apologise to him for that, but the subject matter is myopic to say the least.


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## sawtooth (Aug 1, 2014)

I think there is a serious risk of Liverpool "doing a Sunderland", careful that they dont over do it and get too many new faces in.

With Suarez gone as well and Gerrard not getting any younger, and now with CL football. It could be a tricky year for Liverpool.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2014)

Supposedly getting two defenders from Spain soon as well. Not much time to get everyone playing together before the season starts and I wonder if new face syndrome will be a problem for a few games. Certainly affected the likes of Spurs and Sunderland.


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## G1BB0 (Aug 1, 2014)

if you buy the right players it shouldnt matter if its a whole new starting 11, aslong as they train well and tactically well versed.

Spurs just bought for the sake of it imho and were very disjointed. No doubt all are decent players so the fault would have to go to the Spurs management/coaching staff!

Time will tell with LFC but looked decent against City, Caan looked very good and Stirling wasnt too shabby either


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## JCW (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I apologise to him for that, but the subject matter is myopic to say the least.
		
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I am also 1/2 scottish and years of texting on mobiles which as you know needs to be short so kinda gone that way in my posting , I am not offended as 35 years on the railway where piss taking is an everyday thing . There is very little chance of getting me going as I am harden to it , thanks fish for speaking up and no probs liverbirdie


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			I am also 1/2 scottish and years of texting on mobiles which as you know needs to be short so kinda gone that way in my posting , I am not offended as 35 years on the railway where piss taking is an everyday thing . There is very little chance of getting me going as I am harden to it , thanks fish for speaking up and no probs liverbirdie
		
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Glad I havent caused offence.

The smiley at the end of that line was put there on purpose.

Right where were we, you were saying "Arsenal are the best team ever, Wenger is a reincarnation of Confucius,Sun Tzu and  Genghis Khan" and Liverpool Phil was saying........:whoo:


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## JCW (Aug 1, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			if you buy the right players it shouldnt matter if its a whole new starting 11, aslong as they train well and tactically well versed.

Spurs just bought for the sake of it imho and were very disjointed. No doubt all are decent players so the fault would have to go to the Spurs management/coaching staff!

They buying 2 more from spain this morning , they looking more and more like spurs last season , takes time to bed players in so i will be surprise if they do as well as last year in which they started slow and kick on when LS came back but he is not there this year , yes they look good in a friendly , we all look good in bounce games and matchplay and shoots good scores but in a medal it very often is not so good . it will be wait and see for them this season
		
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## JCW (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Glad I havent caused offence.

The smiley at the end of that line was put there on purpose.

Right where were we, you were saying "Arsenal are the best team ever, Wenger is a reincarnation of Confucius,Sun Tzu and  Genghis Khan" and Liverpool Phil was saying........:whoo:
		
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he is one of the best managers ever to grace the PL , thats all i said , his record when the club had money to spent was very good and when they did not it was still very good but for different reasons and now we can spent again so its wait and see , Real madrid wanted him even before jose . no matter what us fans think he is well respected by other managers and football club owners .


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

Our spending is clearer different to Spurs 

Our manager is the person picking the players 

We are buying a mixture of prem proven players to bolster the squad , we are buying highly rated young players to develop within the prem - we aren't buying for the sake of it. Think tje signings we have made have strengthened the overall squad with possibly a signing needing for the 1st 11


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## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Our spending is clearer different to Spurs 

Our manager is the person picking the players 

We are buying a mixture of prem proven players to bolster the squad , we are buying highly rated young players to develop within the prem - we aren't buying for the sake of it. Think tje signings we have made have strengthened the overall squad with possibly a signing needing for the 1st 11
		
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id id agree in general. Would be interesting to know how much the young Belgian was known of before the wc. But you're generally buying players to fit into a squad. Nit buying 7attacking players hoping one sparks.


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## davemc1 (Aug 1, 2014)

Is there any news on Reina? Pretty sure he's not in the States, heard nothing either regarding sale/loan. Really cant see him coming back. Hope he can arrange a permanent deal somewhere, And a few pennies for him wouldn't go a miss.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

davemc1 said:



			Is there any news on Reina? Pretty sure he's not in the States, heard nothing either regarding sale/loan. Really cant see him coming back. Hope he can arrange a permanent deal somewhere, And a few pennies for him wouldn't go a miss.
		
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Think just waiting for a deal for him to arrive - rumours of Atletico looking at him 

Would actually prefer him to Mignolet but it's clear the bridges were burnt last year


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## Foxholer (Aug 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			he is one of the best managers ever to grace the PL , thats all i said , his record when the club had money to spent was very good and when they did not it was still very good but for different reasons and now we can spent again so its wait and see , Real madrid wanted him even before jose . no matter what us fans think he is well respected by other managers and football club owners .
		
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I've no doubt about Wenger being 'one of the best', but that's actually quite a long list! David Moyes has actually won the LMA Manager of the Year more often (and more recently) than Wenger!

And what gives you the idea that there's any more (or less) money to spend this year than others?

Back to Liverpool..

Th influx of new players will certainly put pressure on combinations, but some of those combinations (at the back for example) were pretty dire last year anyway! It's probably going to be BR's biggest challenge - to organise the coaching - and will be interesting to watch. He made a couple of 'beginner' tactical mistakes last year in key games. I think this year will be where he either shines or fades - last year he was actually carried to glory imo!


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## JCW (Aug 1, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I've no doubt about Wenger being 'one of the best', but that's actually quite a long list! David Moyes has actually won the LMA Manager of the Year more often (and more recently) than Wenger!

And what gives you the idea that there's any more (or less) money to spend this year than others?

Back to Liverpool..
















Th influx of new players will certainly put pressure on combinations, but some of those combinations (at the back for example) were pretty dire last year anyway! It's probably going to be BR's biggest challenge - to organise the coaching - and will be interesting to watch. He made a couple of 'beginner' tactical mistakes last year in key games. I think this year will be where he either shines or fades - last year he was actually carried to glory imo!
		
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Liverpool got a soft centre , Talk about Arsenal being soft , Liverpool are far worse and are leaking goals , they let in 50 last year and it cost them , Arsenal let in 41 and 20 came in 4 away games and wont be repeated this year , they have still to buy a DM who is sourness type , they buying all the pretty players and no steel , need to sort that out and the new players need to gel too .......


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## MadAdey (Aug 1, 2014)

Rogers has been clever in the transfer market IMO. Lovren and Lallana are proven PL players after displaying it last season. Emre Can is a similar type of player to Couthino so can easily just slip into his position in the team. Lambert has been bought to add a dimension to the team as we are not the biggest team around. Markovic is a fast skillful winger who will add some good width. Original is an in segment for the future, a bit like Chelsea do. 

Rogers has been in control of the signings and got the players he wanted. Problem at spurs IMO was that they where like kids I a sweet shop buying anyone they could get there hands on and that appeared to have been done by people up top, not the manager. So thy just ended up with lots of players who did not fit into the system, so never gelled together. Rogers has been far more clever with his signings.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 1, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Rogers has been clever in the transfer market IMO. Lovren and Lallana are proven PL players after displaying it last season. Emre Can is a similar type of player to Couthino so can easily just slip into his position in the team. Lambert has been bought to add a dimension to the team as we are not the biggest team around. Markovic is a fast skillful winger who will add some good width. Original is an in segment for the future, a bit like Chelsea do. 

Rogers has been in control of the signings and got the players he wanted. Problem at spurs IMO was that they where like kids I a sweet shop buying anyone they could get there hands on and that appeared to have been done by people up top, not the manager. So thy just ended up with lots of players who did not fit into the system, so never gelled together. Rogers has been far more clever with his signings.
		
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Yep buying players is easy,building a solid team isn't so easy.


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## JCW (Aug 1, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yep buying players is easy,building a solid team isn't so easy.
		
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Yes very true , ask spurs , They bought player Wenger was interest in but decided were not good enough , LS will be a big loss and thats why they were after Sanchez , not quite LS but a very good player


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 1, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Rogers has been clever in the transfer market IMO. Lovren and Lallana are proven PL players after displaying it last season. Emre Can is a similar type of player to Couthino so can easily just slip into his position in the team. Lambert has been bought to add a dimension to the team as we are not the biggest team around. Markovic is a fast skillful winger who will add some good width. Original is an in segment for the future, a bit like Chelsea do. 

Rogers has been in control of the signings and got the players he wanted. Problem at spurs IMO was that they where like kids I a sweet shop buying anyone they could get there hands on and that appeared to have been done by people up top, not the manager. So thy just ended up with lots of players who did not fit into the system, so never gelled together. Rogers has been far more clever with his signings.
		
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Agree with most of the post apart from Can - think he is a different type of player to the Count , very solid in tackle , more of physical player who can control the middle but is still very comfortable on the ball , has also played CB at one stage , bit of a mix between Kroos and Schwinestiger - think getting him for â‚¬10mil will be a steal - Bayer certainly didn't want him to go.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 1, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yep buying players is easy,building a solid team isn't so easy.
		
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JCW said:



			Yes very true , ask spurs , They bought player Wenger was interest in but decided were not good enough , LS will be a big loss and thats why they were after Sanchez , not quite LS but a very good player
		
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It was what set Fergie aside, the ability to build several sides and get them all to a PL winning standard.


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## Foxholer (Aug 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			Liverpool got a soft centre , Talk about Arsenal being soft , Liverpool are far worse and are leaking goals , they let in 50 last year and it cost them , Arsenal let in 41 and 20 came in 4 away games and wont be repeated this year , they have still to buy a DM who is sourness type , they buying all the pretty players and no steel , need to sort that out and the new players need to gel too .......
		
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You didn't answer my question about why you stated Wenger will have any more (or less) money available!

Also puzzled why you think the disastrous away games won't be repeated! Though I can certainly understand why you would *hope* they wouldn't!

Seems like a case of 'Blinkered Fan'-itis to me!


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## Papas1982 (Aug 1, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			You didn't answer my question about why you stated Wenger will have any more (or less) money available!

Also puzzled why you think the disastrous away games won't be repeated! Though I can certainly understand why you would *hope* they wouldn't!

Seems like a case of 'Blinkered Fan'-itis to me!
		
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They won't be repeated as they have a decent record in general &#128513;&#128513;&#128513;&#128513;&#128513;

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/4...-arsenal-against-the-top-4-is-woeful-picture/


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## JCW (Aug 1, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			You didn't answer my question about why you stated Wenger will have any more (or less) money available!

Also puzzled why you think the disastrous away games won't be repeated! Though I can certainly understand why you would *hope* they wouldn't!

Seems like a case of 'Blinkered Fan'-itis to me!
		
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I do not think it will , after the Liverpool match where they played the full backs too high up the next match vs liverpool again they stayed back and Won 2-1 and went on to win the cup ,Chelsea match was a one off , Teams do have a bad day that starts off bad and gets worse , city game was a good game and they did let a few poor ones in .............I see them pushing on , The past is the past and is no real guide to the future as players and the teams have change


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## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			I do not think it will , after the Liverpool match where they played the full backs too high up the next match vs liverpool again they stayed back and Won 2-1 and went on to win the cup ,Chelsea match was a one off , Teams do have a bad day that starts off bad and gets worse , city game was a good game and they did let a few poor ones in .............I see them pushing on , The past is the past and is no real guide to the future as players and the teams have change
		
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Of course it's a guide to the future. The Chelsea game wasn't a one off. You got battered by all the big teams last season. And have done for 605 seasons. Until that changes you'll be no better than top 4 challengers.


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## JCW (Aug 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Of course it's a guide to the future. The Chelsea game wasn't a one off. You got battered by all the big teams last season. And have done for 605 seasons. Until that changes you'll be no better than top 4 challengers.
		
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Its not so stop acting like you know it all , its a new season and all clubs got new players and if any teams thinks they going turn just turn up and repeat last seasons result then they be in for a shock just like no 2 rounds of golf are the same


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## Foxholer (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW. You appear to have the most serious symptoms of Fan-itis (EPL strain) I've encountered! :rofl: :rofl:

Still not answered my question about Wenger's funds for players either!


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## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Its not so stop acting like you know it all , its a new season and all clubs got new players and if any teams thinks they going turn just turn up and repeat last seasons result then they be in for a shock just like no 2 rounds of golf are the same
		
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jcw c's disagreeing with you doesn't mean I know it all. But my opinion is as valid as yours. There's far more proof to suggest arsenals away day woes will continue to happen. But been as I haven't seem you post anything but utter tosh for 5 days now. I'll ignore you in the future and just have a wry smile at the Bt sport ad whenever it's on. Eybs


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## MadAdey (Aug 2, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			JCW. You appear to have the most serious symptoms of Fan-itis (EPL strain) I've encountered! :rofl: :rofl:

Still not answered my question about Wenger's funds for players either! 

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Without a doubt Foxy old boy. Being in the RAF I knew people from all over the country and one thing I have found with Arsenal fans over the last couple of years is they are one way or another. They either follow every word Wenger says or moans that he is not sorting out the fact that every team goes out to bully them, hence the reason why they conceded 17 goals in 3 games at the teams that finished above them. 

Saying it is a one off is very blinkered as it happened 3 times and I suppose you could add in the 3 that Villa stored on the opening day at the Emirates. It is without doubt that Wengers teams do play fantastic football, but against the good teams, they have the ability to shut them down and not let them control the game.


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## Fish (Aug 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			and just have a wry smile at the Bt sport ad whenever it's on. Eybs
		
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Oh I do like that advert


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## MadAdey (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Its not so stop acting like you know it all , its a new season and all clubs got new players and if any teams thinks they going turn just turn up and repeat last seasons result then they be in for a shock just like no 2 rounds of golf are the same
		
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But on the other hand if when you go out to play golf and your driver is the club lets you down and causes bad rounds are you not going to look into a new one or getting some lessons? You aren't going to go out and by a new putter hoping you will make more putts to make up for the bad driving. It is a bit like loosing football matches due to not being able to stop the other team controlling the game and buying a new forward.


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## Fish (Aug 2, 2014)

*Hot Gossip*

Barcelona and Brondby are considering making a move for Liverpool's Danish centre-back Daniel Agger, 29, who is considering his future at Anfield following the arrival of Â£20m defender Dejan Lovren from Southampton.

Liverpool have suffered a set-back in their pursuit of Paris St-Germain's 29-year-old forward Ezequiel Lavezzi, with the Argentina international preferring a move to Juventus.

Liverpool are lending Manchester United a helping hand in their pursuit of Borussia Dortmund defender Mats Hummels, 25, with the Reds willing to let 21-year-old Portuguese defender Tiago Ilori move to the Bundesliga on loan to replace the German. 

Southampton goalkeeper Boruc is one of the surprise names on Bayernâ€™s list and discreet inquiries have been made over whether the Pole would be interested in becoming Neuerâ€™s deputy rather than a move to Liverpool.


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## JCW (Aug 2, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			JCW. You appear to have the most serious symptoms of Fan-itis (EPL strain) I've encountered! :rofl: :rofl:

Still not answered my question about Wenger's funds for players either! 

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I dont have info on Arsernal`s accounts but wenger has said he is spending more on SSN yesterday


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## JCW (Aug 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			jcw c's disagreeing with you doesn't mean I know it all. But my opinion is as valid as yours. There's far more proof to suggest arsenals away day woes will continue to happen. But been as I haven't seem you post anything but utter tosh for 5 days now. I'll ignore you in the future and just have a wry smile at the Bt sport ad whenever it's on. Eybs
		
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Each to his own as you say , you not that important that i have to ignore you , few years ago Arsenal went the whole season not losing away from home and another season they never lost a game , but thats history and no bearing on the future , any fool knows that and by all accounts if last years stats are a guide then  liverpool will let in 50 again but will not score more as LS is not there and they need to buy RVP maybe as the only top strikers available will cost Â£70m , thats the guy at PSG


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## Foxholer (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			I dont have info on Arsernal`s accounts but wenger has said he is spending more on SSN yesterday
		
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That's rather different from your original post that I queried...



JCW said:



			...his record when the club had money to spent was very good and when they did not it was still very good but for different reasons and now we can spent again so its wait and see ...
		
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According to both the Club and Wenger, money has always been there for purchases, but HE chose not to! There has been no real difference between his ability to spend now or in previous years, though ditching a lot of 'failures' last probably freed up some wages!

The fact that he is spending more this year is spurious, but probably wise! I hope, for Arsenal's sake, he actually spends it wisely!


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## Foxholer (Aug 2, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Without a doubt Foxy old boy. Being in the RAF I knew people from all over the country and one thing I have found with Arsenal fans over the last couple of years is they are one way or another. They either follow every word Wenger says or moans that he is not sorting out the fact that every team goes out to bully them, hence the reason why they conceded 17 goals in 3 games at the teams that finished above them. 

Saying it is a one off is very blinkered as it happened 3 times and I suppose you could add in the 3 that Villa stored on the opening day at the Emirates. It is without doubt that Wengers teams do play fantastic football, but against the good teams, they have the ability to shut them down and not let them control the game.
		
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Oi! Less of the 'old boy' please 'dear chap'! Though it might be apt at times!

Fan-itis does have different symptoms for different Clubs!

Arsenal - everyone is against us but Wenger is a God!
Liverpool - rolling in historic self-pity; hoping 1 good year (with 1 outstanding player) means a return to the halcyon days
Chelsea - Jose is better than God - especially with freedom to spend
Spurs - evenly balanced - chip on each shoulder from 'small club syndrome' and historic roots.
ManU - Arrogance after years of ORN (and HIS magnificent arrogance) 
Newcastle - finally getting united - in hatred of Ashley (who was/is actually their saviour!)

etc!


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## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Each to his own as you say , you not that important that i have to ignore you , few years ago Arsenal went the whole season not losing away from home and another season they never lost a game , but thats history and no bearing on the future , any fool knows that and by all accounts if last years stats are a guide then  liverpool will let in 50 again but will not score more as LS is not there and they need to buy RVP maybe as the only top strikers available will cost Â£70m , thats the guy at PSG
		
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If you're in someway implying I'm a fool as I've suggested arsenal will still struggle against the big teams. I suggesting you google Einstein and his definition of insanity. EyBS


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## JCW (Aug 2, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			If you're in someway implying I'm a fool as I've suggested arsenal will still struggle against the big teams. I suggesting you google Einstein and his definition of insanity. EyBS
		
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I did and i came up with a two on the end ................I am out as homer says ...................Liverpool need a striker like LS


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 2, 2014)

http://lockerdome.com/bbcsporf/6169461380096065/6848548826384404
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Wengers stock just rocketed.
Over to you Stevie G.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 2, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



http://lockerdome.com/bbcsporf/6169461380096065/6848548826384404
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Wengers stock just rocketed.
Over to you Stevie G.
		
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you our can just tell from the look on his face he was ready for that question. Almost couldn't stop smirking whilst he rushed to his punch line. Good on him!


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## JCW (Aug 2, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



http://lockerdome.com/bbcsporf/6169461380096065/6848548826384404
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Wengers stock just rocketed.
Over to you Stevie G.
		
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Pure class from one of the best .............his stock is on the up with all the attacking players he has


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## Foxholer (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Pure class from one of the best .............his stock is on the up with all the attacking players he has
		
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He still generally gets done over by Jose in the one-liners/pre-match quips/put down stakes! His 'specialist in failure' quip was quip of the year - though it came back to bite him somewhat too, which was good to see!

BR doesn't even bother with that stuff, he just gets on with the Football talk.

Jose was the only one that could regularly do a better put-down than ORN, which was entertaining to watch the reaction!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Pure class from one of the best .............his stock is on the up with all the attacking players he has
		
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Real master of the one-liner!

No, not really, best he sticks to the football management.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 3, 2014)

JCW said:



			Pure class from one of the best .............his stock is on the up with all the attacking players he has
		
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Not a very classy response from Wenger that imo.

He's the type of person who gives but can't take it.


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## MadAdey (Aug 3, 2014)

Manquillo is on Merseyside for his medical, Moreno deal looking like being sorted. 2 very exciting young Spanish full backs coming in over the next few days. 

Ballotelli deal looking more and more like it could happen, for Â£14M, could be deal of the transfer window.

Reus rumours seem to be gathering more and more momentum and starting to pop up in a lot of places.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 3, 2014)

I'd love to see Balotelli back in the Prem,never a dull moment with him. 
If he got his head down he could be a good signing,but it's a Big IF.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 3, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Manquillo is on Merseyside for his medical, Moreno deal looking like being sorted. 2 very exciting young Spanish full backs coming in over the next few days. 

Ballotelli deal looking more and more like it could happen, for Â£14M, could be deal of the transfer window.

Reus rumours seem to be gathering more and more momentum and starting to pop up in a lot of places.
		
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Balotelli would be great for you. Plus he never misses penalties. 

I'd start wrapping Lovren in cotton wool you've broken Lallana (physically) and Lambert (pen record) and they come in threes!!


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## MadAdey (Aug 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'd love to see Balotelli back in the Prem,never a dull moment with him. 
If he got his head down he could be a good signing,but it's a Big IF.
		
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I always hated Balotelli, but then again I also said that he is one of those players that you could only love if he played for your team. That would be a great replacement for Suarez IMO, as he has the ability to score plenty and then it means the likes of Sterling and Couthino will have to absorb the chance creating that Suarez did.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 3, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I always hated Balotelli, but then again I also said that he is one of those players that you could only love if he played for your team. That would be a great replacement for Suarez IMO, as he has the ability to score plenty and then it means the likes of Sterling and Couthino will have to absorb the chance creating that Suarez did.
		
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Yeah he's an entertainer for sure. Not sure how sturridge would react though as I get impression he always wants to be the main man. And although that was Suarez last season. Suarez seemed more inclined to share the limelight tha. Either sturridge or balotel


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## MadAdey (Aug 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Yeah he's an entertainer for sure. Not sure how sturridge would react though as I get impression he always wants to be the main man. And although that was Suarez last season. Suarez seemed more inclined to share the limelight tha. Either sturridge or balotel
		
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I think Sturridge and Balotelli could work well together as they are both a bit eccentric. Have you not seen some of the videos that Sturridge makes of himself singing and messing around.

Balotelli always looks like the sort of player who wants to be let loose on the pitch in a fast attacking team and he would certainly get that under Rogers.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 3, 2014)

If Balotelli grows up & focuses on his football he could be world class. At the minute he thinks he's better than he is & doesn't have to try. 
This is old but still quality 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy3I8QzpvfU


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## Papas1982 (Aug 3, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I think Sturridge and Balotelli could work well together as they are both a bit eccentric. Have you not seen some of the videos that Sturridge makes of himself singing and messing around.

Balotelli always looks like the sort of player who wants to be let loose on the pitch in a fast attacking team and he would certainly get that under Rogers.
		
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i have no doubts of sturridge being a free spirit. But have also seen plenty of on field antics with strops when not passed to etc which all good strikers do. I can just envisage a big game where they bith go for glory themselves instead of thinking if the team. I remember one if sturridge first games for England being partnered with welbeck who at the time was ahead of him in the pecking order. He spent 60 minutes trying flicks and tricks before getting subbed as he'd done nothing if any use all game. 

Dont nut get me wrong they could flourish, and brseems good at handling egos. 

Will be interesting to see.


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Well after the Man U game last night Liverpool need a goal scorer to replace LS , that was clear last night and Rogers has bought all the wrong players and to be honest he will not replace LS and do they have the money to buy a Carvani and do that type of player want to go there , It be a long season that will get longer if they dont match last season as judging by what is posted on here liverpool fans expect a lot more even without LS


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## MarkA (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well after the Man U game last night Liverpool need a goal scorer to replace LS , that was clear last night and Rogers has bought all the wrong players and to be honest he will not replace LS and do they have the money to buy a Carvani and do that type of player want to go there , It be a long season that will get longer if they dont match last season as judging by what is posted on here liverpool fans expect a lot more even without LS
		
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Look on the bright side , no one got bitten last night!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well after the Man U game last night Liverpool need a goal scorer to replace LS , that was clear last night and Rogers has bought all the wrong players and to be honest he will not replace LS and do they have the money to buy a Carvani and do that type of player want to go there , It be a long season that will get longer if they dont match last season as judging by what is posted on here liverpool fans expect a lot more even without LS
		
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Most of the players Rodgers has bought didnt play last night and the window hasnt closed yet 

One result doesnt change anything especially in pre season - still a long way to go yet. 

Not sure where Liverpool fans have stated they expect more than last season? i most certainly dont "expect more"


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most of the players Rodgers has bought didnt play last night and the window hasnt closed yet 

One result doesnt change anything especially in pre season - still a long way to go yet. 

Not sure where Liverpool fans have stated they expect more than last season? i most certainly dont "expect more"
		
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Thats because they are injured and you dont expect much this season , did you say that with yer fingers, legs and everthing else crossed , They need to buy a striker to replace LS and Rogers has bought lots just like spurs did last year , over 100m spent and need to spent more , only guy available that can sort of do it is Mario and he is an explosive firecracker


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

MarkA said:



			Look on the bright side , no one got bitten last night! 

Click to expand...

Only Liverpool`s pride of losing to Man U , do they not like that i tell you , but its only pre season


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			Thats because they are injured and you dont expect much this season , did you say that with yer fingers, legs and everthing else crossed , They need to buy a striker to replace LS and Rogers has bought lots just like spurs did last year , over 100m spent and need to spent more , only guy available that can sort of do it is Mario and he is an explosive firecracker
		
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When did i say i dont expect much ?

I know we need a striker and so does Rodgers and will be looking for one

Our squad was thin last year and we are in process of filling it and buying the right type of players and players the manager wants - its nothing like what SPurs did last summer and most people can see the clear difference


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did i say i dont expect much ?

I know we need a striker and so does Rodgers and will be looking for one

Our squad was thin last year and we are in process of filling it and buying the right type of players and players the manager wants - its nothing like what SPurs did last summer and most people can see the clear difference
		
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He got rid of Andy Carrol and buys Lambert , same type of player , they have spent just as much or even more then spurs , too many new players need time to bed in and if results are not great and because of expectations the unrest will grow quickly


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			He got rid of Andy Carrol and buys Lambert , same type of player , they have spent just as much or even more then spurs , too many new players need time to bed in and if results are not great and because of expectations the unrest will grow quickly
		
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Lambert is a 3 mil back up striker who will add something a little different but is also comfortable with the ball at his feet and doesnt spend 6 months each year injured

The players we have bought - 4 of them are youngsters who will be developing their careers and wont be straight into the first team - 2 more are established prem proven players and the other is a back up player. Its quite simple to see if someone has the foresight to look past the figures. 

BR is building a squad - he will be given time to build that squad


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2014)

Rodgers out!!!


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Rodgers out!!!
		
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amen to that lol , but i dont think so unless its a bad start and the fans get on his back which did happen last year before LS came back and things change , no LS this year


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			He got rid of Andy Carrol and buys Lambert , same type of player , they have spent just as much or even more then spurs , too many new players need time to bed in and if results are not great and because of expectations the unrest will grow quickly
		
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Lambert is noway near the same as Carroll. Although interesting to see an arsenal fan criticise a team for not buying a striker when all you have is giroud.


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lambert is a 3 mil back up striker who will add something a little different but is also comfortable with the ball at his feet and doesnt spend 6 months each year injured

The players we have bought - 4 of them are youngsters who will be developing their careers and wont be straight into the first team - 2 more are established prem proven players and the other is a back up player. Its quite simple to see if someone has the foresight to look past the figures. 

BR is building a squad - he will be given time to build that squad
		
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I have the foresight and I cant see it , they need a Carvani or that type of player and he buys young players , now the money is spent what next , Sturridge looks good wen LS was there , now what , he did not cut it else where , why ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			amen to that lol , but i dont think so unless its a bad start and the fans get on his back which did happen last year before LS came back and things change , no LS this year
		
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Sorry but what happened last year ? Which Liverpool fans got on his back before LS came back ? We were doing ok before he came back with out best start in years with Sturridge scoring a fair amount of goals ?

i certainly cant remember fans getting on Rodgers back last season - can you provide a bit of substance to that statement ?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			amen to that lol , but i dont think so unless its a bad start and the fans get on his back which did happen last year before LS came back and things change , no LS this year
		
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Did you know Liverpool were actually 2 points from top before Suarez came back. Arsenal were actually top. So tell me how Liverpool were terrible and had a bad start before Suarez was back?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but what happened last year ? Which Liverpool fans got on his back before LS came back ? We were doing ok before he came back with out best start in years with Sturridge scoring a fair amount of goals ?

i certainly cant remember fans getting on Rodgers back last season - can you provide a bit of substance to that statement ?
		
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heres a table to show how embarrassing you were before his return &#128512;

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/...ate=1380495600000&tableView=CURRENT_STANDINGS


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			I have the foresight and* I cant see it* , they need a Carvani or that type of player and he buys young players , now the money is spent what next , Sturridge looks good wen LS was there , now what , he did not cut it else where , why ?
		
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Well i know thats for sure

Again the transfer window hasnt closed and still plenty of times to sort out deals. 

Sturridge scored a decent amount whilst Suarez was suspended last year - he also scored well at both Chelsea and City just never got a decent run in the team. Can you really critisize our strikers when they outscored yours


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			heres a table to show how embarrassing you were before his return &#128512;

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/...ate=1380495600000&tableView=CURRENT_STANDINGS

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I cant look at that without feelign the same of only being second


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I cant look at that without feelign the same of only being second
		
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It wasn't March yet.........


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			He got rid of Andy Carrol and buys Lambert , same type of player , they have spent just as much or even more then spurs , too many new players need time to bed in and if results are not great and because of expectations the unrest will grow quickly
		
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Sorry but I really must question whether you actually watch football.

Lambert has far more to his game than Carroll as he can hold the ball bringing others into the play, he is able to drift wide creating space to be exploited by runners from midfield plus he converts chances at a better rate.

I am no Liverpool fan but at Â£3m in the current market he is a steal.

Carroll on the other hand is very one-dimensional requiring a team to play *to *him rather than *with *â€‹him.


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## gmc40 (Aug 5, 2014)

I have to say that JCW's posts are embarrassing.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			amen to that lol , but i dont think so unless its a bad start and the fans get on his back which did happen last year before LS came back and things change , no LS this year
		
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Just to clarify my comment was tongue in cheek.

I don't actually remember many fans getting on Rodgers back at all( apart from me!) 

I'm not a massive fan of Lambert and I don't see where or how he fits into the starting xi. 

I thought a man of your stature that only a few days ago gave us a wonderful insight into football finances and how it works  would be able to understand the difference between Carroll on Â£90k a week and Lambert on Â£40k.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			I have the foresight and I cant see it , they need a Carvani or that type of player and he buys young players , now the money is spent what next , Sturridge looks good wen LS was there , now what , he did not cut it else where , why ?
		
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Cavani isn't the answer to replacing Suarez because Luis Suarez is 100% irreplaceable.

What we now have to do is make slight changes adjustments to how we play and find another way to win. Other players also new to step up again.

Chelsea have strengthened an already quality  squad quite impressively, side

City's side has quality right throughout the squad.

Arse have strengthened too.

This time last season Liverpool lacked quality and was probably 5/top players behind these sides, and to be honest I still think we're 5/6quality players behind those 3 sides so my expectations haven't really changed from this time last year.

I know some will say "you've spent Â£100m on your squad" but to actually catch up to those sides and start on  a level  we'd have to spend another Â£180m on 6 quality players imo.


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## davemc1 (Aug 5, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Cavani isn't the answer to replacing Suarez because Luis Suarez is 100% irreplaceable.

What we now have to do is make slight changes adjustments to how we play and find another way to win. Other players also new to step up again.

Chelsea have strengthened an already quality  squad quite impressively, side

City's side has quality right throughout the squad.

Arse have strengthened too.

This time last season Liverpool lacked quality and was probably 5/top players behind these sides, and to be honest I still think we're 5/6quality players behind those 3 sides so my expectations haven't really changed from this time last year.

I know some will say "you've spent Â£100m on your squad" but to actually catch up to those sides and start on  a level  we'd have to spend another Â£180m on 6 quality players imo.
		
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The way I'm reading this is that you don't think the players brought in are at a good enough standard? Tbh I only watch Liverpool, so any signings we ever make are all relativley new/unheard of to me. Hope this is not the case.
other than gk every position has one new face added to the squad, and with the exception of strikers we definitely look stronger on paper. Obviously the big question is how to compensate for the loss of Luis, which if Brendon's can find the answer to, would surely remove any critics still remaining. 
And personally, if we have to spend another 180 mil to catch up with Arsenal we are in big trouble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

davemc1 said:



			The way I'm reading this is that you don't think the players brought in are at a good enough standard? Tbh I only watch Liverpool, so any signings we ever make are all relativley new/unheard of to me. Hope this is not the case.
other than gk every position has one new face added to the squad, and with the exception of strikers we definitely look stronger on paper. Obviously the big question is how to compensate for the loss of Luis, which if Brendon's can find the answer to, would surely remove any critics still remaining. 
And personally, if we have to spend another 180 mil to catch up with Arsenal we are in big trouble.
		
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Catch up with Arsenal ?

Surely they now need to catch up with us with us moving ahead of them last season


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## MadAdey (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Catch up with Arsenal ?

Surely they now need to catch up with us with us moving ahead of them last season 

Click to expand...

i think ink that was the tongue in cheek point Dave was making.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2014)

Rumours of reina to Bayern for Â£2m. Shame as he was a good keeper in his time. Now destined to earn his cash carrying the half time oranges as he has no change of earning a spot in goal.


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Just to clarify my comment was tongue in cheek.

I don't actually remember many fans getting on Rodgers back at all( apart from me!) 

I'm not a massive fan of Lambert and I don't see where or how he fits into the starting xi. 

I thought a man of your stature that only a few days ago gave us a wonderful insight into football finances and how it works  would be able to understand the difference between Carroll on Â£90k a week and Lambert on Â£40k.
		
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Just trying to promote debate and it work , i got some good points and some digs too which show a very poor downside to those that post that sort of stuff  , LS is a big pair of shoes to fill and maybe they never will , Arsenal  have not filled RVP`s boots yet but we have someone who is steady but has others around him like Ramsey , Walcott , Carzola and now Sanchez who can score too which has made Arsenal a better team as we have more goal scorers and we won a trophy which we never did with RVP , now will that  be the same for Liverpool we will have to wait and see and the quicker they move on the better , Lambert will do a job but the others need to step now to life without LS


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## MadAdey (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			Just trying to promote debate and it work , i got some good points and some digs too which show a very poor downside to those that post that sort of stuff  , LS is a big pair of shoes to fill and maybe they never will , Arsenal  have not filled RVP`s boots yet but we have someone who is steady but has others around him like Ramsey , Walcott , Carzola and now Sanchez who can score too which has made Arsenal a better team as we have more goal scorers and we won a trophy which we never did with RVP , now will that  be the same for Liverpool we will have to wait and see and the quicker they move on the better , Lambert will do a job but the others need to step now to life without LS
		
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Your posts are almost laughable. You believe that Sanchez is the answer to Arsenal winning the PL and having a chance of CL success? I think he would have been better off spending that money on someone like Vidal. Looking better going forward is ok, but you have to have the ball first.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			Just trying to promote debate and it work , i got some good points and some digs too which show a very poor downside to those that post that sort of stuff  , LS is a big pair of shoes to fill and maybe they never will , Arsenal  have not filled RVP`s boots yet but we have someone who is steady but has others around him like Ramsey , Walcott , Carzola and now Sanchez who can score too which has made Arsenal a better team as we have more goal scorers and we won a trophy which we never did with RVP , now will that  be the same for Liverpool we will have to wait and see and the quicker they move on the better , Lambert will do a job but the others need to step now to life without LS
		
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Isn't Carzola rumoured to be leaving ? Walcott always injured, Ramsey - injured 

The Arsenal squad still has the same glaring holes in it and Sanchez doesn't fill those gaps 

And as been said your posts are almost laughable


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Rumours of reina to Bayern for Â£2m. Shame as he was a good keeper in his time. Now destined to earn his cash carrying the half time oranges as he has no change of earning a spot in goal.
		
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Would prefer him as our number 1 ! But his bridges were burnt last summer

Did see a few rumours of Neuer going to Madrid but nothing from any reputable site


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Your posts are almost laughable. You believe that Sanchez is the answer to Arsenal winning the PL and having a chance of CL success? I think he would have been better off spending that money on someone like Vidal. Looking better going forward is ok, but you have to have the ball first.
		
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That`s why you post on here like me and Wenger is manager of Arsenal football club whose PL record is only 2nd to sir Alex , if my post are laughable then at least people have a laugh , yours are not even worth reading as they show a lack of understand of the subject matter , the the older you get the wiser you get , does this apply to you ?


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Isn't Carzola rumoured to be leaving ? Walcott always injured, Ramsey - injured 

The Arsenal squad still has the same glaring holes in it and Sanchez doesn't fill those gaps 

And as been said your posts are almost laughable
		
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says you the liverpool groundsmen who is in charge of moving goal post , is there anything you not done or been , expert on everything it seems , you more of an expert on what the farmer spreads in his field to promote growth


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			says you the liverpool groundsmen who is in charge of moving goal post , is there anything you not done or been , expert on everything it seems , you more of an expert on what the farmer spreads in his field to promote growth
		
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I would suggest you have a read back through the thread 

A few people have asked you some questions in regards some of the statements you have made 

The Liverpool were struggling before Suarez came back was the real star of the bunch


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would suggest you have a read back through the thread 

A few people have asked you some questions in regards some of the statements you have made 

The Liverpool were struggling before Suarez came back was the real star of the bunch
		
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I am not going to debate with you tonight as you moved the goal post to suit , as for the others and what they say or think , they are only important if i choose to make them so ...................and what do you think .................EYG


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			I am not going to debate with you tonight as you moved the goal post to suit , as for the others and what they say or think , they are only important if i choose to make them so ...................and what do you think .................EYG
		
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A recurring theme!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think Liverpool's signings are ideal for now. The youngsters are young and without any PL experience. Undoubtedly good players but still learning their trade. Give it a couple of seasons and they will flourish but I can't see how they will score enough goals without Suarez


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## Papas1982 (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would prefer him as our number 1 ! But his bridges were burnt last summer

Did see a few rumours of Neuer going to Madrid but nothing from any reputable site
		
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I think mignolet will come good. Retina made some rickets in his day too. Although he was a great counter attacking keeper.

cant see the neur deal happening. Bayern are just to big a pull. I know Kroos left but his wasn't a bayed  boy. Can't see the German icon leaving for Spain. Big I could be wrong of course.


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## JCW (Aug 5, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I think mignolet will come good. Retina made some rickets in his day too. Although he was a great counter attacking keeper.

cant see the neur deal happening. Bayern are just to big a pull. I know Kroos left but his wasn't a bayed  boy. Can't see the German icon leaving for Spain. Big I could be wrong of course.
		
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Got to agree with you on this one


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2014)

JCW said:



			Got to agree with you on this one
		
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Me too although as I've said money talks and so if the price is right he could end up in Spain. All said and done I doubt it though


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I think mignolet will come good. Retina made some rickets in his day too. Although he was a great counter attacking keeper.

cant see the neur deal happening. Bayern are just to big a pull. I know Kroos left but his wasn't a bayed  boy. Can't see the German icon leaving for Spain. Big I could be wrong of course.
		
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Neuer also isn't a Bayern boy - born in Gelsenkirkcen and then playing for his home club Schalke through every age group then bought by Munich - easily a deal that could happen. 

Reina is clearly a better GK all round - maybe just below Mignolet in shot stopping abilities but streets ahead in every other aspect - Reina is one of our best Evers and that's not a title easily given out


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2014)

davemc1 said:



*The way I'm reading this is that you don't think the players brought in are at a good enough standard? *Tbh I only watch Liverpool, so any signings we ever make are all relativley new/unheard of to me. Hope this is not the case.
other than gk every position has one new face added to the squad, and with the exception of strikers we definitely look stronger on paper. Obviously the big question is how to compensate for the loss of Luis, which if Brendon's can find the answer to, would surely remove any critics still remaining. 
And personally, if we have to spend another 180 mil to catch up with Arsenal we are in big trouble.
		
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In Essence yes.

For example if you look at Chelsea's signings compared to ours they've definitely bought better players.

Chelsea's squad this time last year was still full of quality Schurrle,Hazard,Willian etc when our squad 
was lacking those type of players. Since then they've gone onto improve again with Costa,Fabregas,Felipe and of course recall Victor Moses!!

Our squad has been improved numbers wise  but its still well behind Chelsea's,City's and possibly Arsenals.

With the exception of Markovic and possibly Lovren i'm not too impressed.

Mignolet needs a proper keeper to challenge him for his position as he imo is the weak link.

If all of our new signings turn out to be great players then i'll  admit i was wrong.

All of this is only my opinion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			In Essence yes.

For example if you look at Chelsea's signings compared to ours they've definitely bought better players.

Chelsea's squad this time last year was still full of quality Schurrle,Hazard,Willian etc when our squad 
was lacking those type of players. Since then they've gone onto improve again with Costa,Fabregas,Felipe and of course recall Victor Moses!!

Our squad has been improved numbers wise  but its still well behind Chelsea's,City's and possibly Arsenals.

With the exception of Markovic and possibly Lovren i'm not too impressed.

Mignolet needs a proper keeper to challenge him for his position as he imo is the weak link.

If all of our new signings turn out to be great players then i'll  admit i was wrong.

All of this is only my opinion.
		
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And that Chelsea squad full of quality struggled 

Bar is building a squad as opposed to going down the Spurs method - when you look at the players Spurs bought you would,think they bought lots of quality but they were trying to buy a squad 

BR is building - buying youngsters to mould - Can , Markovic , The two Spanish lads 

Buying players that have proven themselves in the premiership and strengthen areas - Lovren and Lallana and also added a back up in Lambert

It's filling and moulding the squad - they aren't "names" but they certainly bring quality - some won't flourish for a few years. The gaps we had last year are being filled and I have no doubt BR is still looking for more. 

City and Chelsea's squad are always going to be superior in names to ours - they can afford it - but you need to get them plays tigether and working , that's what BR does very well - gets his players playing together. 

Our squad is improving - BR is picking the players he wants in the team. And the window is still open

I'm happy with the players bought so far - all BR type players and think again we will have a good season.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*And that Chelsea squad full of quality struggled 
*
Bar is building a squad as opposed to going down the Spurs method - when you look at the players Spurs bought you would,think they bought lots of quality but they were trying to buy a squad 

BR is building - buying youngsters to mould - Can , Markovic , The two Spanish lads 

Buying players that have proven themselves in the premiership and strengthen areas - Lovren and Lallana and also added a back up in Lambert

It's filling and moulding the squad - they aren't "names" but they certainly bring quality - some won't flourish for a few years. The gaps we had last year are being filled and I have no doubt BR is still looking for more. 

City and Chelsea's squad are always going to be superior in names to ours - they can afford it - but you need to get them plays tigether and working , that's what BR does very well - gets his players playing together. 

Our squad is improving - BR is picking the players he wants in the team. And the window is still open

I'm happy with the players bought so far - all BR type players and think again we will have a good season.
		
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Finishing 7 or 8 points off top spot is hardly struggling Phil.

Had they had a proper goalscorer it may have been different.

Liverpool had a crazy season last season and a lot a luck with injuries. Waiting another couple of seasons for players to flourish might be too long.

Cast your mind back to finishing 2nd in '02 and '09 we never kicked on from it  and it looks exactly the same now.

I really do hope i'm wrong though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Finishing 7 or 8 points off top spot is hardly struggling Phil.

Had they had a proper goalscorer it may have been different.

Liverpool had a crazy season last season and a lot a luck with injuries. Waiting another couple of seasons for players to flourish might be too long.

Cast your mind back to finishing 2nd in '02 and '09 we never kicked on from it  and it looks exactly the same now.

I really do hope i'm wrong though.
		
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For a team that spent as much money as they have - they struggled , they didn't have a proper goalscorer and believe they still haven't.

Things arrived a little early for BR last season and i just hope some hasn't raised their expectations too highly and realise it's still a building game at the moment. We aren't title challenges yet and we still need to develop as a squad so yes it will take a bit of time. 

Haven't 02 and 09 we didn't build the squad with the right players - BR is buying the right players I believe to continue building that squad - those youngsters are just going to keep,getting better. Sterling is going to explode into a world class player very soon. 

Thankfully I think our owners are patient and have bought into the long game - normal we ( the fans ) are very accepting of allowing managers to develop alongside as we see signs of someone putting the club first - believe we will continue to allow BR the time to gel the team


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For a team that spent as much money as they have - they struggled , *they didn't have a proper goalscorer and believe they still haven't.*

Things arrived a little early for BR last season and i just hope some hasn't raised their expectations too highly and realise it's still a building game at the moment. We aren't title challenges yet and we still need to develop as a squad so yes it will take a bit of time. 

Haven't 02 and 09 we didn't build the squad with the right players - BR is buying the right players I believe to continue building that squad - those youngsters are just going to keep,getting better. Sterling is going to explode into a world class player very soon. 

Thankfully I think our owners are patient and have bought into the long game - normal we ( the fans ) are very accepting of allowing managers to develop alongside as we see signs of someone putting the club first - believe we will continue to allow BR the time to gel the team
		
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Drogba?? :rofl:

Re expectations,i'd just like to see us sign a couple of proven, experienced quality to help these young players develop. We can't keep relying on young kids. Why we still have not signed a striker 11 days before the season starts is beyond me.
If we don't do the above then my expectations are to finish 4th.

Whats the net spend up to now? Â£15m max?


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## davemc1 (Aug 5, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Drogba?? :rofl:

Re expectations,i'd just like to see us sign a couple of proven, experienced quality to help these young players develop. We can't keep relying on young kids. Why we still have not signed a striker 11 days before the season starts is beyond me.
If we don't do the above then my expectations are to finish 4th.

Whats the net spend up to now? Â£15m max?
		
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id take forth right now, cement champions league year after year then kick on. Needed in that would have to be a good cup run to keep the feel good factor going. In a couple of years capacity upto 58,000. Then we are really back. 

Oops we're not talking about arsenal are we...  But Really that must be the aim, anything above, like last year is a bonus.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 5, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Drogba?? :rofl:

Re expectations,i'd just like to see us sign a couple of proven, experienced quality to help these young players develop. We can't keep relying on young kids. Why we still have not signed a striker 11 days before the season starts is beyond me.
If we don't do the above then my expectations are to finish 4th.

Whats the net spend up to now? Â£15m max?
		
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Window not shut - we were about to sign a proven goalscorer but you didn't like him and he had medical issues. 

We have signed Lovren - proven quality , Lallana is proven - we have proven quality already in the squad - to help develop the youngsters. We are buying players like Lambert to stop us relying on youngsters but also allowing them to develop. 

Do you just want us to sign some names like City etc - that's not going to happen - the owners have already outlined the players we will buy and these big marque signings won't really happen with them.


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## davemc1 (Aug 5, 2014)

It would be nice though, to sign someone you've actually heard of. England players excluded of course. 

And as for lallana, I'm not so sure a 26yo with 1 decent season in the prem is actually proven. 

Cant wait for it all to kick off,  Roll on next weekend.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Window not shut - we were about to sign a proven goalscorer but you didn't like him and he had medical issues. 

We have signed Lovren - proven quality , Lallana is proven - we have proven quality already in the squad - to help develop the youngsters. We are buying players like Lambert to stop us relying on youngsters but also allowing them to develop. 

*Do you just want us to sign some names like City etc - that's not going to happen - the owners have already outlined the players we will buy and these big marque signings won't really happen with them.*

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Remy FAILED his medical nearly 2 weeks ago, why haven't we signed the next one on the list?

But its alright for those same owners to charge US the paying fan Marquee ticket prices?


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## MadAdey (Aug 6, 2014)

So people like JCW are saying that we are making bad signings, this is how I see them. Take it apart or give your opinion.....


Lambert: proven in the PL with 13 goals and 10 assists last year. Good touch for a big man, can hold it up, bringing other players in and can really trouble defences from set pieces.


Lallana: proven In the PL with 9 goals and 8 assists last year. Fantastic on the ball and can play in a supporting role up top, outside or in a CM position.


Lovren: proved he could hack it in the PL last year, scored a couple and set one up showing that he can provide a threat from set pieces. From what I remember looks very comfortable on the ball and will help solidify the defence.


Markovic: do not know much about him apart from he is fast and good with the ball at his feet. Looks like he could be useful from what I have seen so far. 20 years old and a good prospect for the future.


Can: Big, young strong all round midfielder. Looks like the same sort of player as Gerrard/Toure, not saying as good as Toure, but that type of player. Managed to score 4 goals and set up another 4 playing from a defensive role last year, so has the ability to make an impact going forward as well as defending.


Origi: bit of an unknown quantity, but did score goals last year and looks like he could be good. Only 19 so loaning him back to Lille is good business to get him more playing time next year. 


Moreno: deal going through in the next couple of days. Good quality highly thought of in Spain, only 22 so still time to get better. Should help tighten up the defence in the LB role, but is fast and good on e ball and can provide an outlet to the midfield.


Manquillo: another deal going through in the next couple of days. Only 20 so very young still, but is another exciting young prospect that hopefully shows why people see him as the next Spanish RB.


So that is how I see the transfers. 3 proven PL players and 5 young prospects. You can't replace Suarez, but you can reshape the team to compensate for it. Rogers knows that the club does not have the riches of City and Chelsea, so is trying to get some good young players in to build for the future. He has said all along that is his aim.


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## MadAdey (Aug 6, 2014)

JCW said:



			That`s why you post on here like me and Wenger is manager of Arsenal football club whose PL record is only 2nd to sir Alex , if my post are laughable then at least people have a laugh , yours are not even worth reading as they show a lack of understand of the subject matter , the the older you get the wiser you get , does this apply to you ?
		
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None more blind than those that can't see!!!!!!!!


i think pretty much every footie fan on here is honest about there own team and have some good chats about the subject. Most Chelsea fans will tell you that not having a Goal scorer last year cost them the league and every Liverpool, even though happy with the season, will tell you the defence let us down. City will tell you all is good and you think the Arsenal team is perfect, apart from a new striker, that is why they finished 4th..........

so please enlighten me as to how Wenger is turning you into title contenders, or what, as an Arsenal, you would like to see to turn them back into title contenders. You dodge this question regularly.....


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For a team that spent as much money as they have - they struggled , they didn't have a proper goalscorer and believe they still haven't.

Things arrived a little early for BR last season and i just hope some hasn't raised their expectations too highly and realise it's still a building game at the moment. We aren't title challenges yet and we still need to develop as a squad so yes it will take a bit of time. 

Haven't 02 and 09 we didn't build the squad with the right players - BR is buying the right players I believe to continue building that squad - those youngsters are just going to keep,getting better. Sterling is going to explode into a world class player very soon. 

Thankfully I think our owners are patient and have bought into the long game - normal we ( the fans ) are very accepting of allowing managers to develop alongside as we see signs of someone putting the club first - believe we will continue to allow BR the time to gel the team
		
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No one as blinkered as you on this forum Phil. Every Liverpool signing is top draw according to you. Brenda can do no wrong according to you. 
Sanchez snubbed you for Arsenal & you put it down to being in London alone,realistically it probably was also down to constantly playing CL football & having a big name manager. 
Costa could go either way I'll admit that,but you seem happy to call him a one season wonder,is Lellana any different tho? 

Let's be honest Phil you'd argue black is white just to start a debate to fill your evening,quite sad really.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			So people like JCW are saying that we are making bad signings, this is how I see them. Take it apart or give your opinion.....


Lambert: proven in the PL with 13 goals and 10 assists last year. Good touch for a big man, can hold it up, bringing other players in and can really trouble defences from set pieces.


Lallana: proven In the PL with 9 goals and 8 assists last year. Fantastic on the ball and can play in a supporting role up top, outside or in a CM position.


Lovren: proved he could hack it in the PL last year, scored a couple and set one up showing that he can provide a threat from set pieces. From what I remember looks very comfortable on the ball and will help solidify the defence.


Markovic: do not know much about him apart from he is fast and good with the ball at his feet. Looks like he could be useful from what I have seen so far. 20 years old and a good prospect for the future.


Can: Big, young strong all round midfielder. Looks like the same sort of player as Gerrard/Toure, not saying as good as Toure, but that type of player. Managed to score 4 goals and set up another 4 playing from a defensive role last year, so has the ability to make an impact going forward as well as defending.


Origi: bit of an unknown quantity, but did score goals last year and looks like he could be good. Only 19 so loaning him back to Lille is good business to get him more playing time next year. 


Moreno: deal going through in the next couple of days. Good quality highly thought of in Spain, only 22 so still time to get better. Should help tighten up the defence in the LB role, but is fast and good on e ball and can provide an outlet to the midfield.


Manquillo: another deal going through in the next couple of days. Only 20 so very young still, but is another exciting young prospect that hopefully shows why people see him as the next Spanish RB.


So that is how I see the transfers. 3 proven PL players and 5 young prospects. You can't replace Suarez, but you can reshape the team to compensate for it. Rogers knows that the club does not have the riches of City and Chelsea, so is trying to get some good young players in to build for the future. He has said all along that is his aim.
		
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Adey, I'm concerned there's no new striker been bought 10days before the season starts.  

Buying a striker was the most important signing imo. 

Sturridge is injured and it looks likely we'll be starting the season with just Lambert and Borini but it's alright we've signed some young potential for the future.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			So people like JCW are saying that we are making bad signings, this is how I see them. Take it apart or give your opinion.....


Lambert: proven in the PL with 13 goals and 10 assists last year. Good touch for a big man, can hold it up, bringing other players in and can really trouble defences from set pieces.


Lallana: proven In the PL with 9 goals and 8 assists last year. Fantastic on the ball and can play in a supporting role up top, outside or in a CM position.


Lovren: proved he could hack it in the PL last year, scored a couple and set one up showing that he can provide a threat from set pieces. From what I remember looks very comfortable on the ball and will help solidify the defence.


Markovic: do not know much about him apart from he is fast and good with the ball at his feet. Looks like he could be useful from what I have seen so far. 20 years old and a good prospect for the future.


Can: Big, young strong all round midfielder. Looks like the same sort of player as Gerrard/Toure, not saying as good as Toure, but that type of player. Managed to score 4 goals and set up another 4 playing from a defensive role last year, so has the ability to make an impact going forward as well as defending.


Origi: bit of an unknown quantity, but did score goals last year and looks like he could be good. Only 19 so loaning him back to Lille is good business to get him more playing time next year. 


Moreno: deal going through in the next couple of days. Good quality highly thought of in Spain, only 22 so still time to get better. Should help tighten up the defence in the LB role, but is fast and good on e ball and can provide an outlet to the midfield.


Manquillo: another deal going through in the next couple of days. Only 20 so very young still, but is another exciting young prospect that hopefully shows why people see him as the next Spanish RB.


So that is how I see the transfers. 3 proven PL players and 5 young prospects. You can't replace Suarez, but you can reshape the team to compensate for it. Rogers knows that the club does not have the riches of City and Chelsea, so is trying to get some good young players in to build for the future. He has said all along that is his aim.
		
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Great post - agree 100% :thup:


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## Foxholer (Aug 6, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



*No one as blinkered as you on this forum Phil*. Every Liverpool signing is top draw according to you. Brenda can do no wrong according to you. 
Sanchez snubbed you for Arsenal & you put it down to being in London alone,realistically it probably was also down to constantly playing CL football & having a big name manager. 
Costa could go either way I'll admit that,but you seem happy to call him a one season wonder,is Lellana any different tho? 
...
		
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As I see it, Phil is simply viewing through Rose-Tinted glasses (contacts).

JCW posts, on the other hand, indicate he's truly blinkered!


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## MadAdey (Aug 6, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Adey, I'm concerned there's no new striker been bought 10days before the season starts.  

Buying a striker was the most important signing imo. 

Sturridge is injured and it looks likely we'll be starting the season with just Lambert and Borini but it's alright we've signed some young potential for the future.
		
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I think Rogers is being careful not to rush into a panic buy and will not be forced into it. I think he is holding money back due to the fact there has been talk of Cavani, Lavezzi & Falcao coming onto the market, not sure if one of them could really be tempted as Chelsea would defiantly in another quality forward.

Remy to me was being looked at because of how relatively cheap he was and money would still be there if a big name became available. The last time a top striker was sold at Anfield a panic buy was made and we paid Â£35m for Carroll, so if Rogers is holding on for the right player then good on him. I would prefer to buy no one than do another Carroll and pay Â£20m over the odds.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 6, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			As I see it, Phil is simply viewing through red blinkers.

QUOTE]

Rogers is the new Messiah. Every signing is top rate. Every player is going to be brilliant. Lots of inexperience at PL level in the signings and still not convinced Lallana is as great as he's made out and to my mind was a big fish in a smallish pool at Southampton.

I think Chelsea have been clever and got the fire power they lacked last season and weren't too far behind despite having no one who could get it in the net. City seem ominously happy with everything and have so much talent it's hard to be anything but concerned about them winning. United look right on it after the new manager came in and suddenyl everyone wants to play again. Arsenal I think have done well and their signings would feel me with far more confidence than the Liverpool ones
		
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## Pin-seeker (Aug 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I think Rogers is being careful not to rush into a panic buy and will not be forced into it. I think he is holding money back due to the fact there has been talk of Cavani, Lavezzi & Falcao coming onto the market, not sure if one of them could really be tempted as Chelsea would defiantly in another quality forward.

Remy to me was being looked at because of how relatively cheap he was and money would still be there if a big name became available. The last time a top striker was sold at Anfield a panic buy was made and we paid Â£35m for Carroll, so if Rogers is holding on for the right player then good on him. I would prefer to buy no one than do another Carroll and pay Â£20m over the odds.
		
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Doesn't appear to be many top strikers available at the minute. Remy would have been a good signing at that price, 
Haven't really seen much of Bony but his record was pretty good last season. Looks like Swansea won't let him go for less than Â£20m tho.


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## MadAdey (Aug 6, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Doesn't appear to be many top strikers available at the minute. Remy would have been a good signing at that price, 
Haven't really seen much of Bony but his record was pretty good last season. Looks like Swansea won't let him go for less than Â£20m tho.
		
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There are never many top class forwards available in the transfer windows, that is unless someone is willing to break the bank. Torres Â£50m, Cavani Â£50m, Falcao Â£47m, Sanchez Â£45m, just to name a few players that have taken big money to get their club to release them. Can Liverpool really find that sort of money as it is going to take Â£40m


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## Stuart_C (Aug 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Me too although as I've said money talks and so if the price is right he could end up in Spain. All said and done I doubt it though
		
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MadAdey said:



			There are never many top class forwards available in the transfer windows, that is unless someone is willing to break the bank. Torres Â£50m, Cavani Â£50m, Falcao Â£47m, Sanchez Â£45m, just to name a few players that have taken big money to get their club to release them. Can Liverpool really find that sort of money as it is going to take Â£40m
		
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We keep being told we've still got the Suarez money to buy a striker, they've only spent Â£15m NETT this summer.

In all businesses it's all about NETT spend not GROSS.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:





Foxholer said:



			As I see it, Phil is simply viewing through red blinkers.

QUOTE]

*Rogers is the new Messiah. Every signing is top rate. Every player is going to be brilliant. *Lots of inexperience at PL level in the signings and still not convinced Lallana is as great as he's made out and to my mind was a big fish in a smallish pool at Southampton.

I think Chelsea have been clever and got the fire power they lacked last season and weren't too far behind despite having no one who could get it in the net. City seem ominously happy with everything and have so much talent it's hard to be anything but concerned about them winning. United look right on it after the new manager came in and suddenyl everyone wants to play again. Arsenal I think have done well and their signings would feel me with far more confidence than the Liverpool ones
		
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When has anyone ever suggested anything of the sort. It's a nonsense comment that adds nothing 

Lallana has had two good seasons in the Prem and performed very well ,as has Lambert plus Lovren who settled very well - that's the main expirenced players and will fit more straight into 1st - 

The rest are highly rated youngsters with great potential to develop into very good players - Markovic is only 20 yet has CL expirence already. 

It comes as no shock at all that you don't rate our chances - you have mentioned it on a daily basis how lowly you rate our chances. 

BR is starting of very well for us - no one has called him the messiah or anything of the like - unless you want to show anything different
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

Javier Manquillo has signed on a two year loan deal - Â£5mil

Lots of clauses - chance to buy him throughout at around Â£10mil


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## Foxholer (Aug 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:





Foxholer said:



			As I see it, Phil is simply viewing through red blinkers.

QUOTE]

Rogers is the new Messiah. Every signing is top rate. Every player is going to be brilliant. Lots of inexperience at PL level in the signings and still not convinced Lallana is as great as he's made out and to my mind was a big fish in a smallish pool at Southampton.

I think Chelsea have been clever and got the fire power they lacked last season and weren't too far behind despite having no one who could get it in the net. City seem ominously happy with everything and have so much talent it's hard to be anything but concerned about them winning. United look right on it after the new manager came in and suddenyl everyone wants to play again. Arsenal I think have done well and their signings would feel me with far more confidence than the Liverpool ones
		
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Oi! Sort your editing out! 

*And don't EVER change my text without acknowledging/FTFY-ing it!* Ask Bobmac for his views on same (He's not happy about anyone changing it, even with a FTFY!)! You are putting your words into my statement! Which someone else. LPP in this case, then quotes!
 It's not on! :rant:


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## MadAdey (Aug 6, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			We keep being told we've still got the Suarez money to buy a striker, they've only spent Â£15m NETT this summer.

In all businesses it's all about NETT spend not GROSS.
		
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im im just guessing here, but with the Suarez money and his initial budget I would have thought he had around Â£140-Â£150 million to spend. So with the Moreno purchase looking going through that takes total spending to about Â£105m. So there's around Â£40m left, just enough to bring a top striker in. But I just don't know who he can get........


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## JCW (Aug 6, 2014)

Well i have just caught up with all the new post on here , If Remy was that good wenger would have bought him long ago , most of the players sold wenger has had a look at them and he knows his stuff hard headed as he is and decided not for him , Lambert is the best value buy for me and Sanchez was the top top player available and choose Arsenal because of wenger , dont kid yourself , the rest are  only full of promise ? I know Wenger needs a tough guy in the middle and i am sure he does too and the boy calum looks promising at CB . Now as for strikers and if liverpool are going to buy one , have they got the money to buy a Carvani or such and more to the point do these top guys want to go to Liverpool , In the PL only 2 managers are seen as top guys for what records they have and are respected for that so a top top striker would look at BM, RM & Barce before even looking at the PL and then its Arsenal , Chelsea , Man C & Utd , so that is 7 clubs in the pecking order before Liverpool and if you think not the you kidding yourself , note i dont put that 7 in any order . For me Wenger needs 2 good hard players ,DM & CB and also needs to park the bus and not stick to his way of playing no matter what and against who now and again  , We all live in hope but what will take place we truly dont know but i shall enjoy seeing it all unfold anyow and by the way the goal post are now in Goodison Park


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well i have just caught up with all the new post on here , *If Remy was that good wenger would have bought him long ago* , most of the players sold wenger has had a look at them and he knows his stuff hard headed as he is and decided not for him , Lambert is the best value buy for me and Sanchez was the top top player available and choose Arsenal because of wenger , dont kid yourself , the rest are  only full of promise ? I know Wenger needs a tough guy in the middle and i am sure he does too and the boy calum looks promising at CB . Now as for strikers and if liverpool are going to buy one , have they got the money to buy a Carvani or such and more to the point do these top guys want to go to Liverpool , In the PL only 2 managers are seen as top guys for what records they have and are respected for that so a top top striker would look at BM, RM & Barce before even looking at the PL and then its Arsenal , Chelsea , Man C & Utd , so that is 7 clubs in the pecking order before Liverpool and if you think not the you kidding yourself , note i dont put that 7 in any order . For me Wenger needs 2 good hard players ,DM & CB and also needs to park the bus and not stick to his way of playing no matter what and against who now and again  , We all live in hope but what will take place we truly dont know but i shall enjoy seeing it all unfold anyow and by the way the goal post are now in Goodison Park
		
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Wow - just wow

I'm actually worried that you believe the utter nonsense you post.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 6, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			im im just guessing here, but with the Suarez money and his initial budget I would have thought he had around Â£140-Â£150 million to spend. So with the Moreno purchase looking going through that takes total spending to about Â£105m. So there's around Â£40m left, just enough to bring a top striker in. But I just don't know who he can get........
		
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Still lots of talk about Lavezzi - wants high wages ( nearly Suarez level ) . Think we might see a relative unknown also arriving


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## JCW (Aug 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wow - just wow

I'm actually worried that you believe the utter nonsense you post.
		
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Yes and its too the point , I know what Arsenal need , I don`t kid myself , only Sanchez is top drawer , the rest of Arsenal`s buys are full of promise just like most of Liverpools and any other club for that matter , Football is not the only thing that counts here , can the player settle at his new club , does he get on with his team mates or is he happy in the area he is living and does his wife and family like the area , can the players from abroad cope with the pace of the game and the weather , if they dont and fans give them the bird what will happen , most fall away and want to leave , anyway my post are wasted on the likes of you as your last post clearly shows your lack of understanding to how life is seen by others , some are born to lead or are leaders and others are sheep who only see what they want to see because they lack the quality to see otherwise , I not wasting my time debating with you as you move the goal post to suit and i cant be bothered


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 6, 2014)

Guys

2 things to note

1 Its all subjective and not worth fighting over
2 Someone please teach JCW to use the occasional paragraph

EYG


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## JCW (Aug 6, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Guys

2 things to note








1 Its all subjective and not worth fighting over
2 Someone please teach JCW to use the occasional paragraph

EYG 

Click to expand...

 I am what i am phil sorry mate .............train driver for years , never that good at writing reports about incidents as well , never had many in 35 years


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 6, 2014)

JCW said:



			Yes and its too the point , I know what Arsenal need , I don`t kid myself , only Sanchez is top drawer , the rest of Arsenal`s buys are full of promise just like most of Liverpools and any other club for that matter , Football is not the only thing that counts here , can the player settle at his new club , does he get on with his team mates or is he happy in the area he is living and does his wife and family like the area , can the players from abroad cope with the pace of the game and the weather , if they dont and fans give them the bird what will happen , most fall away and want to leave , anyway my post are wasted on the likes of you as your last post clearly shows your lack of understanding to how life is seen by others , some are born to lead or are leaders and others are sheep who only see what they want to see because they lack the quality to see otherwise , I not wasting my time debating with you as you move the goal post to suit and i cant be bothered
		
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Sorry but I would have to say that you are the one guilty of moving the goalposts.

Yesterday you were dismissive of Lambert comparing him to Carroll and yet today you suggest that he represents the best value so far in this window.

Make your mind up!


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## JCW (Aug 6, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry but I would have to say that you are the one guilty of moving the goalposts.

Yesterday you were dismissive of Lambert comparing him to Carroll and yet today you suggest that he represents the best value so far in this window.

Make your mind up!
		
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Promoting debate mate , some see it some don`t , i just seeing how others see it and the way they post tells me all i need to know , never take me for a fool coz that i am not , those that know me will tell you that , most on here are great and i have met many and want to meet more but some no matter what think black is white lol , Arsenal need  DM , liverpool need a striker as good as LS, they don`t grow on trees , Mario B is the only one available thats a good striker for the money , but there is an airline of baggage with him


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 6, 2014)

JCW said:



			Promoting debate mate , some see it some don`t , i just seeing how others see it and the way they post tells me all i need to know , never take me for a fool coz that i am not , those that know me will tell you that , most on here are great and i have met many and want to meet more but some no matter what think black is white lol , Arsenal need  DM , liverpool need a striker as good as LS, they don`t grow on trees , Mario B is the only one available thats a good striker for the money , but there is an airline of baggage with him
		
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Most certainly don't take you as a fool but I would question your understanding of debate.


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## JCW (Aug 6, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Most certainly don't take you as a fool but I would question your understanding of debate.
		
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ok then , you tell how it is then , i am willing to listen  , they say you learn something everyday


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 6, 2014)

JCW said:



			ok then , you tell how it is then , i am willing to listen  , they say you learn something everyday
		
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Rather like football, consistency is very important. 

Constantly changing your position is not promoting debate, it is I believe known as trolling or being a WUM. Totally different to lively debate and very tiresome.


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## Foxholer (Aug 6, 2014)

JCW said:



			ok then , you tell how it is then , i am willing to listen  , they say you learn something everyday
		
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Well debate certainly doesn't involve harping on, time after time, post after post, in every comment or reply (get the message?) about the same thing - needing a striker as good as Suarez. Firstly, they ain't going to get one; secondly that 'debate' has been done to death and thirdly they appear to have plans in place to adjust - not replace.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 6, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well i have just caught up with all the new post on here , If Remy was that good wenger would have bought him long ago , most of the players sold wenger has had a look at them and he knows his stuff hard headed as he is and decided not for him , Lambert is the best value buy for me and Sanchez was the top top player available and choose Arsenal because of wenger , dont kid yourself , the rest are  only full of promise ? I know Wenger needs a tough guy in the middle and i am sure he does too and the boy calum looks promising at CB . Now as for strikers and if liverpool are going to buy one , have they got the money to buy a Carvani or such and more to the point do these top guys want to go to Liverpool , In the PL only 2 managers are seen as top guys for what records they have and are respected for that so a top top striker would look at BM, RM & Barce before even looking at the PL and then its Arsenal , Chelsea , Man C & Utd , so that is 7 clubs in the pecking order before Liverpool and if you think not the you kidding yourself , note i dont put that 7 in any order . For me Wenger needs 2 good hard players ,DM & CB and also needs to park the bus and not stick to his way of playing no matter what and against who now and again  , We all live in hope but what will take place we truly dont know but i shall enjoy seeing it all unfold anyow and by the way the goal post are now in Goodison Park
		
Click to expand...

Google yaya toure and arsene wenger. Then tell us all about how wenger never misses out?!


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## JCW (Aug 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Google yaya toure and arsene wenger. Then tell us all about how wenger never misses out?!
		
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 Haha , its like waiting for a bus , none for ages then , liverpool phil , papas182 , and foxholer all turn up at once , you guys texting each other to post .................leave you to it then


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## Papas1982 (Aug 7, 2014)

JCW said:



			Haha , its like waiting for a bus , none for ages then , liverpool phil , papas182 , and foxholer all turn up at once , you guys texting each other to post .................leave you to it then
		
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Nah it's just to easy to spot flaws in every argument. I'd call you a troll but they tend to have some originality and not constantly spout the same baseless drivel.


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 7, 2014)

Hands up who wants this thread closing!!!

Just keep bickering and that's exactly what will happen

Now sort it out please !!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

If ( and its an if ) the rumouors of Lavezzi bear fruit ( also heard of a few rumours about Insigne ) the team isnt going to be too bad 

GK -Mignolet -think could be a weak spot especially with no decent back up

RB - Flanagan/Manquillo/Johnson -Flanagan has impressed in Pre Season so can see him been given the nod
LB - Moreno/Enrique/Robinson - feel Moreno will be straight into the team

CB- Sahko,Agger,Lovren,Skittles - going to be interesting who is the main two - would give Lovren and Agger a go 

DM - Gerrard/Lucas/Can - no issues there at all - quality cover and a highly promising youngster

CM - Henderson/Allen - those two will work all day long - they will be the legs for the team

AM - Coutinho/Lallana - Both are going to create lots of chances - add in Suso who has started pre season well 

Wide Areas - Sterling/Lallana/Ibe/Markovic - pace , skill , creativity - think that is our star area

Striker - Strurridge/Lambert then possibly one more - Lavezzi/Insigne maybe - Sturridge will score , Lambert will score - 

Think a striker added then maybe just maybe we have a pretty solid team there - its not littered with marquee names but if the tactics are right and the teamwork is spot on like last year then i reckon we again will surprise a few.


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Hands up who wants this thread closing!!!

Just keep bickering and that's exactly what will happen

Now sort it out please !!!!
		
Click to expand...

Instead of threatening, how about dealing with the numptees who are just trolling and having sly digs at particular people?

Then people who want to discuss this thread can do!!!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If ( and its an if ) the rumouors of Lavezzi bear fruit ( also heard of a few rumours about Insigne ) the team isnt going to be too bad 

GK -Mignolet -think could be a weak spot especially with no decent back up

RB - Flanagan/Manquillo/Johnson -Flanagan has impressed in Pre Season so can see him been given the nod
LB - Moreno/Enrique/Robinson - feel Moreno will be straight into the team

CB- Sahko,Agger,Lovren,Skittles - going to be interesting who is the main two - would give Lovren and Agger a go 

DM - Gerrard/Lucas/Can - no issues there at all - quality cover and a highly promising youngster

CM - Henderson/Allen - those two will work all day long - they will be the legs for the team

AM - Coutinho/Lallana - Both are going to create lots of chances - add in Suso who has started pre season well 

Wide Areas - Sterling/Lallana/Ibe/Markovic - pace , skill , creativity - think that is our star area

Striker - Strurridge/Lambert then possibly one more - Lavezzi/Insigne maybe - Sturridge will score , Lambert will score - 

Think a striker added then maybe just maybe we have a pretty solid team there - its not littered with marquee names but if the tactics are right and the teamwork is spot on like last year then i reckon we again will surprise a few.
		
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It might look good on paper, I just hope we don't falter after having a great season last year.
1 step forward 2 back and all that.

The keeper based on last season's performances is a liability.

We also need a lot of luck injury wise.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			It might look good on paper, I just hope we don't falter after having a great season last year.
1 step forward 2 back and all that.

The keeper based on last season's performances is a liability.

We also need a lot of luck injury wise.
		
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Agree on the keepr - shot stopping wise he is brilliant - communication wise - not so.

The cover for injury is not too bad - it is mainly youngsters but we know we arent the sort of club to be able to have two top class players in every position like City etc that costs a lot of money


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## MadAdey (Aug 7, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Instead of threatening, how about dealing with the numptees who are just trolling and having sly digs at particular people?

Then people who want to discuss this thread can do!!!
		
Click to expand...

Ive always wondered that, why not just go after the troublemakers rather than shutting down the thread.


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## PhilTheFragger (Aug 7, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Instead of threatening, how about dealing with the numptees who are just trolling and having sly digs at particular people?l
Then people who want to discuss this thread can do!!!
		
Click to expand...

Because often a warning is enough to stop the "numpties "
If they ignore that warning then we take action , which could include infractions and or thread closure.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Ive always wondered that, why not just go after the troublemakers rather than shutting down the thread.
		
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It appears its easier to just close the thread - thankfully the talk has returned to football

Lost of "noise" about Lavezzi fee being agreed with PSG - they have also agreed a fee it appears for Di Maria - it appears though that the fee for Di Maria is 44mil Euros and we pay for that because we are also looking at adding Pastore into the deal - unfortunatly i reckon thats a bit too far fetched.


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## MadAdey (Aug 7, 2014)

I think the players that have been brought in need to be given a chance. People said about Sturridge not being the answer to Liverpools goal scoring and look how that turned out. Couthino was a bit of an unknown quantity when he was purchased, but now he is starting to mature into a fantastic player. 

My point is just because a player did not cost upwards of Â£30m and has a big reputation, he could still be a great signing. With big players can come big egos and that can make it harder to slot them into the team quicker. Younger lesser well known players can be a lot easier to mould into a new way of playing. Anyway Rogers has always been looking into the long term rather than blowing money the club doesn't have looking for instant success. 

Plan A was to always try and get back into the CL, for 2 reasons, it helps attract good players and the income is huge if you have a good run.
Plan B was to eventually be in a position to challenge for the PL. 

Oops it looks like he achieved his goals a bit quicker than expected, but you then have to get your sensible heads back on and look at qualifying for the CL again and see that as a good season while trying to build the squad into genuine PL & CL contenders. Last season was fantastic and for the players it gave them some valuable experience at being in that position and Rogers too.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 7, 2014)

Lots of rumours on social media about Falcou going to Liverpool.
Can't see how anyone could match his wages tho tbh.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I think the players that have been brought in need to be given a chance. People said about Sturridge not being the answer to Liverpools goal scoring and look how that turned out. Couthino was a bit of an unknown quantity when he was purchased, but now he is starting to mature into a fantastic player. 

My point is just because a player did not cost upwards of Â£30m and has a big reputation, he could still be a great signing. With big players can come big egos and that can make it harder to slot them into the team quicker. Younger lesser well known players can be a lot easier to mould into a new way of playing. Anyway Rogers has always been looking into the long term rather than blowing money the club doesn't have looking for instant success. 

Plan A was to always try and get back into the CL, for 2 reasons, it helps attract good players and the income is huge if you have a good run.
Plan B was to eventually be in a position to challenge for the PL. 

Oops it looks like he achieved his goals a bit quicker than expected, but you then have to get your sensible heads back on and look at qualifying for the CL again and see that as a good season while trying to build the squad into genuine PL & CL contenders. Last season was fantastic and for the players it gave them some valuable experience at being in that position and Rogers too.
		
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Spot on again mate ! perfectly said.


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## freddielong (Aug 7, 2014)




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## G1BB0 (Aug 7, 2014)

If you actually notice, the top clubs (bar Man U apart from Shaw) are making big money signings but also selling/offloading a lot of players. Nett spend will be interesting as will wage bill.

roll on the new season, i reckon it will be a cracker regardless of the banter


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## Stuart_C (Aug 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I think the players that have been brought in need to be given a chance. People said about Sturridge not being the answer to Liverpools goal scoring and look how that turned out. Couthino was a bit of an unknown quantity when he was purchased, but now he is starting to mature into a fantastic player. 

My point is just because a player did not cost upwards of Â£30m and has a big reputation, he could still be a great signing. With big players can come big egos and that can make it harder to slot them into the team quicker. Younger lesser well known players can be a lot easier to mould into a new way of playing. Anyway Rogers has always been looking into the long term rather than blowing money the club doesn't have looking for instant success. 

Plan A was to always try and get back into the CL, for 2 reasons, it helps attract good players and the income is huge if you have a good run.
Plan B was to eventually be in a position to challenge for the PL. 

Oops it looks like he achieved his goals a bit quicker than expected, but you then have to get your sensible heads back on and look at qualifying for the CL again and see that as a good season while trying to build the squad into genuine PL & CL contenders. Last season was fantastic and for the players it gave them some valuable experience at being in that position and Rogers too.
		
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We've spent Â£65M on 3 Midfielders, we're relying on young potential players with ability to take us forward. I think we need some quality CL experienced players in that squad.

Only time will tell i suppose.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			We've spent Â£65M on 3 Midfielders, we're relying on young potential players with ability to take us forward. I think we need some quality CL experienced players in that squad.

Only time will tell i suppose.
		
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The squad has a number of players already with CL experience 

Sahko , Skrtel , Lovren , Agger , Lucas , Gerrard , Countinho, Sturridge even , Markovic 

Lallana and Markovic ( 2 of those midfielders ) normally occupy forward roles though


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## JCW (Aug 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The squad has a number of players already with CL experience 

Sahko , Skrtel , Lovren , Agger , Lucas , Gerrard , Countinho, Sturridge even , Markovic 

Lallana and Markovic ( 2 of those midfielders ) normally occupy forward roles though
		
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Lallana CL experience ? who for  ??????


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

JCW said:



			Lallana CL experience ? who for  ??????
		
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Lallana isn't in the list of players with CL experience


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## JCW (Aug 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lallana isn't in the list of players with CL experience
		
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Then i need to go to spec savers as his name is on that list you posted , goal post moving again , tell you what , don1t worry  about it


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2014)

JCW said:



			Then i need to go to spec savers as his name is on that list you posted , goal post moving again , tell you what , don1t worry  about it
		
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Two lists in the post 

First list is the players with CL experience 

Second list names the two,players from the list of mids that we have bought for Â£65mil that are actually mainly forwards. 

It's answered the two parts of the post that Stuart 

Hope that clears up any confusion :thup:


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## Foxholer (Aug 7, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			My point is just because a player did not cost upwards of Â£30m and has a big reputation, he could still be a great signing. With big players can come big egos and that can make it harder to slot them into the team quicker. Younger lesser well known players can be a lot easier to mould into a new way of playing. Anyway Rogers has always been looking into the long term rather than blowing money the club doesn't have looking for instant success.
		
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Isn't that exactly what happened/the situation was with Suarez?

Not a huge amount of money initially, but potential; turned into an absolutely world-beater 'with bite' (unfortunately)!

Certainly agree with the ego vs team mentality issue too! Though that's something that a skilled Manager should be able to 'manage'! I think that's the 1 failing of ORN - he tried too hard to bring Beckham to heel, where, I believe, Beckham never had anything but ManU's 'good' in mind!


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

To be honest it would be interesting to hear from the United fans regarding the transfer window. Did they not loose a LB and 2 CB's in the summer and all they have bought is a LB, 17 year old keeper and a defensive midfielder. I think the they need to get busy and quickly, because to me they are not looking too good at he minute.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			To be honest it would be interesting to hear from the United fans regarding the transfer window. Did they not loose a LB and 2 CB's in the summer and all they have bought is a LB, 17 year old keeper and a defensive midfielder. I think the they need to get busy and quickly, because to me they are not looking too good at he minute.
		
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I agree that they need a few more to challenge,but the change in manager is massive. Van Gaal will get a lot more out of the players that didn't perform last season. 
Top 4 finish for me.


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I agree that they need a few more to challenge,but the change in manager is massive. Van Gaal will get a lot more out of the players that didn't perform last season. 
Top 4 finish for me.
		
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The change in manager is big, but it takes someone special like SAF to get average PL players to win the title. I would seriuosly be worried if I was a United fan. What is the line up going to be? Van Gaal is in desperate need of a CB IMO, or he could be in trouble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			The change in manager is big, but it takes someone special like SAF to get average PL players to win the title. I would seriuosly be worried if I was a United fan. What is the line up going to be? Van Gaal is in desperate need of a CB IMO, or he could be in trouble.
		
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I think Van Gaal arrogance will be the undoing of him - its a very thin line and they have massive gaps in their squad


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lallana isn't in the list of players with CL experience
		
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Maybe a full stop then would have helped after Markovic, I read it as 1 list also until I read further on.

Liverpool 6th at best for me but no doubt will be happy with 5th as a target :smirk:


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			To be honest it would be interesting to hear from the United fans regarding the transfer window. Did they not loose a LB and 2 CB's in the summer and all they have bought is a LB, 17 year old keeper and a defensive midfielder. I think the they need to get busy and quickly, because to me they are not looking too good at he minute.
		
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They still beat Liverpool easy the other night , they have trouble getting players as no champions league this season , top players will note that and will choose Arsenal , Man City & chelsea before looking at UTD , they will get it right i am sure , Its Arsenal , Man city , and chelsea in top 3 , what order i cant say , then its Liverpool , spurs , Man Utd and Everton for 4th Place unless Liverpool buy Falcao which is latest rumour ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2014)

Fish said:



			Maybe a full stop then would have helped after Markovic, I read it as 1 list also until I read further on.

Liverpool 6th at best for me but no doubt will be happy with 5th as a target :smirk:
		
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Target is Top 4 mate and see us getting Top 4 as well :thup:

Both Man Utd and Arsenal still have those big holes in their squad and can see us finishing above both


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2014)

I'll take a Â£20 bet with anyone that Arsenal finish above Liverpool. 
Â£20 to a charity of the winners choice


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			They still beat Liverpool easy the other night , they have trouble getting players as no champions league this season , top players will note that and will choose Arsenal , Man City & chelsea before looking at UTD , they will get it right i am sure , Its Arsenal , Man city , and chelsea in top 3 , what order i cant say , then its Liverpool , spurs , Man Utd and Everton for 4th Place unless Liverpool buy Falcao which is latest rumour ?
		
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Here re we go again, the blind football fan. What on this earth makes you so confident that Arsenal will finish above Liverpool and United? Have they really improved the squad that much so far? Also your lack of knowledge is fantastic, Liverpool did not have a full strength team out and it was a pre season marketing tool. 

I think you are trying to be a WUM going on the fact that you keep changing your opinion and avoids questions when asked.


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'll take a Â£20 bet with anyone that Arsenal finish above Liverpool. 
Â£20 to a charity of the winners choice

Click to expand...

I'll take that bet and raise you to Â£50 for HFH.......:thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I'll take that bet and raise you to Â£50 for HFH.......:thup:
		
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I'll take the Â£20 bet,Charity of winners choice??


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## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Here re we go again, the blind football fan. What on this earth makes you so confident that Arsenal will finish above Liverpool and United? Have they really improved the squad that much so far? Also your lack of knowledge is fantastic, Liverpool did not have a full strength team out and it was a pre season marketing tool. 

I think you are trying to be a WUM going on the fact that you keep changing your opinion and avoids questions when asked.
		
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I don't think your squad was that weak, and isn't that part of the game. Have a squad good enough to cope. UTD were also in ore season and as you've stated earlier have a squad with holes. Yes it was a friendly, but whichever team won was going to brag somewhat whilst the others hid behind it being a friendly. Didn't they say at the start you've now had 2 friendlies in your history? Says it all really, the fans at the game whilst mainly yanks still wanted their respective teams to win.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2014)

I think United have more to come in and they will be experienced players, maybe even a real big name. I think Arsenal may get one more in. The worrying thing is how little City seem to be doing and Pellegrini seems very confident with his side. Personally I can't see beyond a City Chelsea one two. After that I think United and Arsenal will be within a point or so of each other for third and then a gap of 5-6 points to the rest


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]



HomerJSimpson said:



			I think United have more to come in and they will be experienced players, maybe even a real big name. I think Arsenal may get one more in. The worrying thing is how little City seem to be doing and Pellegrini seems very confident with his side. Personally I can't see beyond a City Chelsea one two. After that I think United and Arsenal will be within a point or so of each other for third and then a gap of 5-6 points to the rest
		
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What do City need? They have better strikers sat on the bench than most teams had on the pitch (Arsenal and Chelsea included). Pellagrini is too wise to just go out wasting money, the only way he is going to spend is if a really big name came onto the market. Chelsea/City 1st & 2nd is what I expect, but who knows, last year just goes to prove what a crazy game it can be. Liverpool got second and I honestly thought at one point Everton would sneak into 4th until they tailed off in the last few games.[/FONT]


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## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:





What do City need? They have better strikers sat on the bench than most teams had on the pitch (Arsenal and Chelsea included). Pellagrini is too wise to just go out wasting money, the only way he is going to spend is if a really big name came onto the market. Chelsea/City 1st & 2nd is what I expect, but who knows, last year just goes to prove what a crazy game it can be. Liverpool got second and I honestly thought at one point Everton would sneak into 4th until they tailed off in the last few games.

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I don't think homer was concerned. Think he basically meant it was ominous that City were so strong they didn't feel the need to make a splash. I could be wrong but interpreted it that way. 

The he thing with you last year was the shock factor. You could easily do it again. But last year when it went wrong. And you lost it (you did lose it IMO). You were happy to say we were hoping for 4th second is brilliant etc etc. Now the pressure is on. Lots of times teams first season back I'm prem is rosey then they fall apart. 2nd season syndrome is the test. 

Do I think you'll win it, not a hope. As Liverpool fans pointed out last season. Your improvement was unprecedented. And there was a one person behind that and it wasn't br. No big team in the league has been weakened over summer like yours has. I think the top three will comfortably be Chelsea/city and then arsenal. 

I make utd favourites for one reason. Van Gaal. The players didn't support Moyes. He and the team couldn't handle the pressure, they were the best team away in pl last year and if Rooney and RVP stay up top instead of drifting which looks likely on this new formation they could easily score the goals you did last year to improve so greatly.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'll take the Â£20 bet,Charity of winners choice??
		
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Is the bet on?


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Here re we go again, the blind football fan. What on this earth makes you so confident that Arsenal will finish above Liverpool and United? Have they really improved the squad that much so far? Also your lack of knowledge is fantastic, Liverpool did not have a full strength team out and it was a pre season marketing tool. 

I think you are trying to be a WUM going on the fact that you keep changing your opinion and avoids questions when asked.
		
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Avoid question when asked , I been taking lessons from Liverpool Phil , In the last 17 PL seasons since Wenger has been in charge, Arsenal have Finished 13 times above Liverpool to liverpool 4 times and one of those 4  it was the same 68 points each   , 3 
 times winners to Livepool 0 and last season was the 1st time in ages that you finished above Arsenal and that was all done to LS who is no longer there , thats the confidence i have they will and i will pay Â£20 to charity if  they do .  I see Carvani is in talks with Liverpool and Arsenal , If we want him , Arsenal will out bid Liverpool , as for city not doing much business , thats down to FFP biting , been fined already hence need to watch it hence the Lampard signing , that was all in the bag before he when to USA.  because he wants to play and Chelsea did not want to keep him on and city need English players , Nasri taking a pay cut , thats FFP too and they try and make it up in bonus payments , think they are clever , FFP will catch them again ,its going to be a cracking season for sure


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			Avoid question when asked , I been taking lessons from Liverpool Phil , In the last 17 PL seasons since Wenger has been in charge, Arsenal have Finished 13 times above Liverpool to liverpool 4 times and one of those 4  it was the same 68 points each   , 3 
 times winners to Livepool 0 and last season was the 1st time in ages that you finished above Arsenal and that was all done to LS who is no longer there , thats the confidence i have they will and i will pay Â£20 to charity if  they do .  I see Carvani is in talks with Liverpool and Arsenal , If we want him , Arsenal will out bid Liverpool , as for city not doing much business , thats down to FFP biting , been fined already hence need to watch it hence the Lampard signing , that was all in the bag before he when to USA.  because he wants to play and Chelsea did not want to keep him on and city need English players , Nasri taking a pay cut , thats FFP too and they try and make it up in bonus payments , think they are clever , FFP will catch them again ,its going to be a cracking season for sure
		
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Don't pin your hopes on FFP.

That was Platini's big idea but its effectiveness was dead in the water the moment PSG got the massive financial support of the Qatari's.

The rules have already been diluted and will be furter eroded the more difficult they make it for the Pride of France to win the CL.


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Don't pin your hopes on FFP.

That was Platini's big idea but its effectiveness was dead in the water the moment PSG got the massive financial support of the Qatari's.

The rules have already been diluted and will be furter eroded the more difficult they make it for the Pride of France to win the CL.
		
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Time will tell but something needs to be done but  I think in the end the big clubs will have their  own European League just like the PL came into being over here . Arsenal , Chelsea , Man City & Utd , RM , Barce, Ajax, BM , Benfica , PSG to name a few ......dont laugh


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			Avoid question when asked , I been taking lessons from Liverpool Phil , In the last 17 PL seasons since Wenger has been in charge, Arsenal have Finished 13 times above Liverpool to liverpool 4 times and one of those 4  it was the same 68 points each   , 3 
 times winners to Livepool 0 and last season was the 1st time in ages that you finished above Arsenal and that was all done to LS who is no longer there , thats the confidence i have they will and i will pay Â£20 to charity if  they do.
		
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.??????????? When Phil mentions liverpools history he gets shot down, so what the hell has the last 17 years got to do with anything. In those years you had some top players in each position, now you haven't. 
..........................Liverpool.......Arsenal
League....................18..............13
FA Cup.....................7...............11
League cup...............8................2
Euro Cup/CL..............5...............0
EUFA Cup..................3...............0
Cup Winners Cup.......0................1
Charity Shield...........15..............12
Euro Super Cup.........3................0
Total Trophies............59..............39

So using your flawed logic then Liverpool have to do better than Arsenal because of what has happened in years gone by. Maybe not because it has no bearing on a new season. Rogers has been in charge for 2 seasons and is improving a crap team, Wenger is I charge of Arsenal and they are getting no better, if anything using your talk of years gone by as a bench mark, he is doing worse now than 10 years ago......LOL


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			Time will tell but something needs to be done but  I think in the end the big clubs will have their  own European League just like the PL came into being over here . Arsenal , Chelsea , Man City & Utd , RM , Barce, Ajax, BM , Benfica , PSG to name a few ......dont laugh
		
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i think this post sums you up, you really are deluded. You mention a Euro Super League and put Arsenal in there, why do you think they would automatically get in? Entry requirements are.........win nothing for 10 years?


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## Foxholer (Aug 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Don't pin your hopes on FFP.

That was Platini's big idea but its effectiveness was dead in the water the moment PSG got the massive financial support of the Qatari's.

The rules have already been diluted and will be furter eroded the more difficult they make it for the Pride of France to win the CL.
		
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PSG was fined the same as City (60m Euros - reduced to 20m if they comply) and had identical sanctions imposed on them too!

Pay cut, but bonus for success (for both player and Club) is much more reasonable - as it implies Club benefits financially from whatever the bonus is for. That's the sort of arrangement UEFA would (or at least should) be 'happy' with as it doesn't threaten a Club's viability!


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			.??????????? When Phil mentions liverpools history he gets shot down, so what the hell has the last 17 years got to do with anything. In those years you had some top players in each position, now you haven't. 
..........................Liverpool.......Arsenal
League....................18..............13
FA Cup.....................7...............11
League cup...............8................2
Euro Cup/CL..............5...............0
EUFA Cup..................3...............0
Cup Winners Cup.......0................1
Charity Shield...........15..............12
Euro Super Cup.........3................0
Total Trophies............59..............39

So using your flawed logic then Liverpool have to do better than Arsenal because of what has happened in years gone by. Maybe not because it has no bearing on a new season. Rogers has been in charge for 2 seasons and is improving a crap team, Wenger is I charge of Arsenal and they are getting no better, if anything using your talk of years gone by as a bench mark, he is doing worse now than 10 years ago......LOL
		
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I am just talking PL , nothink else , 10 years they were winning a lot , then they build a new stadium so not much spare cash to complete against new boys in the cash league chelsea , then Man City , but now Arsenal are back to where they were 10 years ago and can match Chelsea or City if they want too . Liverpool have stood still and will be left behind unless they get a rich owner , but FFP is also here , what next for Liverpool and any other club , build a bigger stadium to get more gate money , but that cost millions and something has to give and in Arsenal`s case it was the team. Don`t you think those in the know dont know that , coz they do thats why they have not done it as football is a results business , The Arsenal board had a vision and they bite the Bullet and with champions league cash every year they have got to where they are today quicker , thats all down to Wengers skill as an all round manager , I am a business man thats why i understand what was done and why it was done and they fruits of those years are now here and from a Strong position Arsenal will get stronger , The Arsenal cash reserve is more then all clubs in the premire league put together , you think thats was a fluke .........I see your stats and cant argue with that but its history , the future is whats its all about , there you have mate , if you cant see it then ,you cant , never mind


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## Andy808 (Aug 8, 2014)

Pepe Reina has been sold to Bayern Munich. 
Really sad to see him go after the work he has done for the club over the years.


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			I am just talking PL , nothink else , 10 years they were winning a lot , then they build a new stadium so not much spare cash to complete against new boys in the cash league chelsea , then Man City , *but now Arsenal are back to where they were 10 years ago and can match Chelsea or City if they want too* . Liverpool have stood still and will be left behind unless they get a rich owner , but FFP is also here , what next for Liverpool and any other club , build a bigger stadium to get more gate money , but that cost millions and something has to give and in Arsenal`s case it was the team. Don`t you think those in the know dont know that , coz they do thats why they have not done it as football is a results business , The Arsenal board had a vision and they bite the Bullet and with champions league cash every year they have got to where they are today quicker , thats all down to Wengers skill as an all round manager , I am a business man thats why i understand what was done and why it was done and they fruits of those years are now here and from a Strong position Arsenal will get stronger , The Arsenal cash reserve is more then all clubs in the premire league put together , you think thats was a fluke .........I see your stats and cant argue with that but its history , the future is whats its all about , there you have mate , if you cant see it then ,you cant , never mind
		
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:rofl:


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## Foxholer (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			I am just talking PL , nothink else , 10 years they were winning a lot , then they build a new stadium so not much spare cash to complete against new boys in the cash league chelsea , then Man City , but now Arsenal are back to where they were 10 years ago and can match Chelsea or City if they want too . Liverpool have stood still and will be left behind unless they get a rich owner , but FFP is also here , what next for Liverpool and any other club , build a bigger stadium to get more gate money , but that cost millions and something has to give and in Arsenal`s case it was the team. Don`t you think those in the know dont know that , coz they do thats why they have not done it as football is a results business , The Arsenal board had a vision and they bite the Bullet and with champions league cash every year they have got to where they are today quicker , thats all down to Wengers skill as an all round manager , I am a business man thats why i understand what was done and why it was done and they fruits of those years are now here and from a Strong position Arsenal will get stronger , The Arsenal cash reserve is more then all clubs in the premire league put together , you think thats was a fluke .........I see your stats and cant argue with that but its history , the future is whats its all about , there you have mate , if you cant see it then ,you cant , never mind
		
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Er...Try 15 years!

Didn't you say you were a (retired) Railway worker? (Driver?)

Arsenal's cash reserve is indeed large, but it wasn't just created last year, or the last couple of years! It's necessary to act as a buffer for both their, sizeable, Property business and ongoing risks (like not making Champions League for example).

If you really a business man, you would realise that! I think Adey's WUM is a better description!

Liverpool does indeed have wealthy, but sensible, owners who have dragged it back from major downturn under previous owners, so definitely not stood still! FFP is, however, something they need to be aware of - even with the bumper harvest of selling Suarez!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Aug 8, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			PSG was fined the same as City (60m Euros - reduced to 20m if they comply) and had identical sanctions imposed on them too!

Pay cut, but bonus for success (for both player and Club) is much more reasonable - as it implies Club benefits financially from whatever the bonus is for. That's the sort of arrangement UEFA would (or at least should) be 'happy' with as it doesn't threaten a Club's viability!
		
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Both clubs effectively negotiated their own sanctions.

My point is aimed at those who seriously think that FFP will have any significant levelling effect. It won't, in fact quite the reverse, the gap between rich and poor is likely to get bigger.


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

Fish said:



			:rofl:
		
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always good for for a laugh these posts are. I am realistic in the fact that I know man 4 Man Liverpool are not in the same calibre as Chelsea and City, doesn't mean they can't compete though.


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Er...Try 15 years!

Didn't you say you were a (retired) Railway worker? (Driver?)

Arsenal's cash reserve is indeed large, but it wasn't just created last year, or the last couple of years! It's necessary to act as a buffer for both their, sizeable, Property business and ongoing risks (like not making Champions League for example).

If you really a business man, you would realise that! I think Adey's WUM is a better description!

Liverpool does indeed have wealthy, but sensible, owners who have dragged it back from major downturn under previous owners, so definitely not stood still! FFP is, however, something they need to be aware of - even with the bumper harvest of selling Suarez!
		
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yep ,  thats why i play golf everyday and not worry about work  ...........Liverpool buying a spainish lad plus carvani , this is rumour or is it really taking place


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			always good for for a laugh these posts are. I am realistic in the fact that I know man 4 Man Liverpool are not in the same calibre as Chelsea and City, doesn't mean they can't compete though.
		
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As Stu stated earlier in a post, we have strengthened an already strong squad with some very decent players and if Costa clicks, and the signs in pre-season is he's really up for it, and with Drogba on as an impact player, not to mention the goal scorers we have from the flanks and creative midfield, I am very confident, much more than usual, for the coming season


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

Fish said:



			As Stu stated earlier in a post, we have strengthened an already strong squad with some very decent players and if Costa clicks, and the signs in pre-season is he's really up for it, and with Drogba on as an impact player, not to mention the goal scorers we have from the flanks and creative midfield, I am very confident, much more than usual, for the coming season 

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Me too , and more to come yet


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Er...Try 15 years!

Didn't you say you were a (retired) Railway worker? (Driver?)

Arsenal's cash reserve is indeed large, but it wasn't just created last year, or the last couple of years! It's necessary to act as a buffer for both their, sizeable, Property business and ongoing risks (like not making Champions League for example).

If you really a business man, you would realise that! I think Adey's WUM is a better description!
		
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I studied business and did A levels in Accountancy and Economics at college, but I would not class myself as a business man. But I am with you on this foxy. The cash that Arsenal have is what keeps them afloat, without it and such a huge debt they could be in trouble, big time. Like you said if they miss out on CL football one season how will they make their Â£25m repayment on the stadium, that's right, through the cash reserve. They have a lot of debt, but also have the cash to balance it and make payments.

Arsenal do have a sound business model that has bought them a new stadium while still having a good team and being able to compete. JCW, you say you are a business man with properties, so you must have a nest egg somewhere that you keep for a rainy day Incase you can't make your repayments on those properties. That money Arsenal has is the same.



Foxholer said:



			Liverpool does indeed have wealthy, but sensible, owners who have dragged it back from major downturn under previous owners, so definitely not stood still! FFP is, however, something they need to be aware of - even with the bumper harvest of selling Suarez!
		
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They are defiantly starting to sort out the books now at Liverpool and that can be seen from the fact they can afford to buy new players. The scare from a few seasons ago when it looked like they would have to sell any player that was worth anything has passed now.


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

Fish said:



			As Stu stated earlier in a post, we have strengthened an already strong squad with some very decent players and if Costa clicks, and the signs in pre-season is he's really up for it, and with Drogba on as an impact player, not to mention the goal scorers we have from the flanks and creative midfield, I am very confident, much more than usual, for the coming season 

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if someone gave me a free bet on the PL I would certainly be considering putting it on Chelsea. I think Maureen would still like to bring another striker though, the fact he has got Drogba back shows he sees a slight weakness in that area. I definitely think that Chelsea has the strongest Midfield squad and possibly the best 2 keepers. I can see either Cavani or Falcao ending up there.


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			if someone gave me a free bet on the PL I would certainly be considering putting it on Chelsea. I think Maureen would still like to bring another striker though, the fact he has got Drogba back shows he sees a slight weakness in that area. I definitely think that Chelsea has the strongest Midfield squad and possibly the best 2 keepers. I can see either Cavani or Falcao ending up there.
		
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No real money worries in life , just done a lease for new business property , friend of mine in the trade at golf club checked it out and we got the deal i wanted , cost me a case of wine , not paying the lawyers a grand , just married and my 1st on the way , thats my only worry that he/she be born  healthy , all this name calling on here and the rest of the debate is just passing time and i enjoy it and dont take it personal , others do but thats their problem , I am looking forward to the PL season


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			if someone gave me a free bet on the PL I would certainly be considering putting it on Chelsea. I think Maureen would still like to bring another striker though, the fact he has got Drogba back shows he sees a slight weakness in that area. I definitely think that Chelsea has the strongest Midfield squad and possibly the best 2 keepers. I can see either Cavani or Falcao ending up there.
		
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Only reason I'm not backing Chelsea is the price is too short. 
I'd be surprised to see Cavani or Falcou arriving tbh.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			I am just talking PL , nothink else , 10 years they were winning a lot , then they build a new stadium so not much spare cash to complete against new boys in the cash league chelsea , then Man City , but now Arsenal are back to where they were 10 years ago and can match Chelsea or City if they want too . Liverpool have stood still and will be left behind unless they get a rich owner , but FFP is also here , what next for Liverpool and any other club , build a bigger stadium to get more gate money , but that cost millions and something has to give and in Arsenal`s case it was the team. Don`t you think those in the know dont know that , coz they do thats why they have not done it as football is a results business , The Arsenal board had a vision and they bite the Bullet and with champions league cash every year they have got to where they are today quicker , thats all down to Wengers skill as an all round manager , I am a business man thats why i understand what was done and why it was done and they fruits of those years are now here and from a Strong position Arsenal will get stronger , The Arsenal cash reserve is more then all clubs in the premire league put together , you think thats was a fluke .........I see your stats and cant argue with that but its history , the future is whats its all about , there you have mate , if you cant see it then ,you cant , never mind
		
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You argue that your point is about the future, and yet you started it stating your pl history is better?
to arsenals credit they upgraded the stadium in a point of strength and couldn't of seen all the businessmen bipuying clubs as toys. That said, you're constant digs about your a business man so know what you're talking about are condescending to say the least. Especially when half your points are totally no business realted and absurd to say the least. 

To sum up. FFP Won't work. Uefa's profit lines are improved with clubs performance. If any of the big names threaten to leave sponsors will put the screw on the rules. Re a euro league. Rumours originally were that it'd be 2 each from the biggest leagues in Europe. Arsenal aren't in that list. Man UTD and Liverpool are so far ahead if the towers it's not even close.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2014)

Don't believe FFP will ever truely work 

As someone has already Platini was very vocal about rich owners etc etc until PSG came into money - been quiet since 

Oh and Arsenal have lost one of their better players -  Vermaluen


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2014)

Don't think he's a problem. 13 games and 8 sub appearances last year hardly a first team choice. Wenger has more in front of him he prefers and still has doubt to splash the cash if he chooses


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Don't think he's a problem. 13 games and 8 sub appearances last year hardly a first team choice. Wenger has more in front of him he prefers and still has doubt to splash the cash if he chooses
		
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He has two CB's in his squad now when Vermaluen goes - has more full backs than CB


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He has two CB's in his squad now when Vermaluen goes - has more full backs than CB
		
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Think you need to look at Liverpool's defensive frailties first. No doubt they can cover should they need to. Not an Arsenal fan but Wenger always impresses me how he has a plan for everything and so I'm sure he has someone in mind to let him go


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think you need to look at Liverpool's defensive frailties first. No doubt they can cover should they need to. Not an Arsenal fan but Wenger always impresses me how he has a plan for everything and so I'm sure he has someone in mind to let him go
		
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Yep and we have purchased a CB and DM to help our "frailties" but it was irrelevant to the post I made 

Last year he had Sagna to cover at CB if needed - he has left as well. 

It wouldn't be the first time someone has left without adequate ( or in fact any replacement ) lined up


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep and we have purchased a CB and DM to help our "frailties" but it was irrelevant to the post I made 

Last year he had Sagna to cover at CB if needed - he has left as well. 

It wouldn't be the first time someone has left without adequate ( or in fact any replacement ) lined up
		
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One half decent season for Liverpool & you start knocking Arsenal 
Probably best to see how Brenda sorts your defensive problems out first :thup:


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## Foxholer (Aug 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			One half decent season for Liverpool & you start knocking Arsenal 
Probably best to see how Brenda sorts your defensive problems out first :thup:
		
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I'd suspect he was quite into knocking Arsenal before the half-decent season! 

Agree about defensive problems though. Performance there is vital, but it looks like it's being addressed. Whether 'addressing' them will actually solve them is a different story!


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## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Think you need to look at Liverpool's defensive frailties first. No doubt they can cover should they need to. Not an Arsenal fan but Wenger always impresses me how he has a plan for everything and so I'm sure he has someone in mind to let him go
		
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Gotta say I think it's wingers stubbornness to hope his 11 stay fit that has cost arsenal recently. Every season fans complain due to bad luck with injuries. If they had adequate cover they'd not have had such problems.  

Read Liverpools defensive issues. I put that more down to the coaches tactical preference than squad options.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2014)

I agree that Wenger can be stubborn and it has cost him. However I think he's changed tact a little this summer and seems a little more open to change and new personnel. I do think that after the first 11 and the bench there is still cover lacking but I could say that at most clubs with the exception of Chelsea (and even then I'm not 100% convinced) and City.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2014)

Have Arsenal bought some players that I have missed ? 4 arriving - 2 RB , Back Up GK and a talented winger 

Lost a fair few as well


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

In wenger we trust , only few Arsenal fans don`t , on here when i spoke about seeing a guy die in front of my train and what it was like and liverpool phil was then in the army and seen loads of dead bodies and was a weapons expert , took holmer and me all nite to get it out of him , next we got this other guy who i now find out is a secret accountant , then another accountant and big time business mind turns up , you guys make me laugh , you must be texting each other to post , no , I think you all are wannabe football managers huh and fantasy league is best you will do so you come on here to act like your experts , I cant stop laughing .............I am out , you guys carry on , Liverpool are buying everyone including Van mullen ha ha


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			In wenger we trust , only few Arsenal fans don`t , on here when i spoke about seeing a guy die in front of my train and what it was like and *liverpool phil was then in the army and seen loads of dead bodies and was a weapons expert , *took holmer and me all nite to get it out of him , next we got this other guy who i now find out is a secret accountant , then another accountant and big time business mind turns up , you guys make me laugh , you must be texting each other to post , no , I think you all are wannabe football managers huh and fantasy league is best you will do so you come on here to act like your experts , I cant stop laughing .............I am out , you guys carry on , Liverpool are buying everyone including Van mullen ha ha
		
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Never been in the army nor a weapons expert and I really am struggling to see what relevance any of your posts have to this thread ?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 8, 2014)

JCW said:



			In wenger we trust , only few Arsenal fans don`t , on here when i spoke about seeing a guy die in front of my train and what it was like and liverpool phil was then in the army and seen loads of dead bodies and was a weapons expert , took holmer and me all nite to get it out of him , next we got this other guy who i now find out is a secret accountant , then another accountant and big time business mind turns up , you guys make me laugh , you must be texting each other to post , no , I think you all are wannabe football managers huh and fantasy league is best you will do so you come on here to act like your experts , I cant stop laughing .............I am out , you guys carry on , Liverpool are buying everyone including Van mullen ha ha
		
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 Don't really care what this earns me. When I first joined here I will admit that phil would get my goal as he was so blinkered and biased. He still is to a point. But generally trees to back it off with at least reasonable points. You on the other hand spout ability garbage. Everytime your posts are proved to be laughable you jump up and down claims g we communicate to point out your faults. I would suggest if enough people think your bonkers. You're bonkers!!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'll take a Â£20 bet with anyone that Arsenal finish above Liverpool. 
Â£20 to a charity of the winners choice

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MadAdey
Or any other confident Liverpool fans? 
Friendly bet for charity.


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## JCW (Aug 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Don't really care what this earns me. When I first joined here I will admit that phil would get my goal as he was so blinkered and biased. He still is to a point. But generally trees to back it off with at least reasonable points. You on the other hand spout ability garbage. Everytime your posts are proved to be laughable you jump up and down claims g we communicate to point out your faults. I would suggest if enough people think your bonkers. You're bonkers!!
		
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I may  be mad but i not nasty , and no i am not offended in anyway shape or form mate


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Have Arsenal bought some players that I have missed ? 4 arriving - 2 RB , Back Up GK and a talented winger 

Lost a fair few as well
		
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Still think the squad has enough talent and I think he'll sign more players. Still think they'll finish 3rd.


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## MadAdey (Aug 8, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			MadAdey
Or any other confident Liverpool fans? 
Friendly bet for charity.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 9, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Sounds good to me :thup:
		
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Good man.


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## Fish (Aug 9, 2014)

For me the biggest thing Liverpool have to change from last year is their goals against tally [50], because quite simply it was the worst in almost the whole of the top 10 with only Spurs [51] & Stoke [52] letting in more! The only reason that wasn't focused on too much was because of their cavalier attitude of "we'll score more goals than you" and win attitude, which they did, but as all those Liverpool fans know, this will not be the case this coming season, so, have they replaced that ability to breakdown those proven better defences of which all of them in the top 9 with the exception of Spurs & Stoke let in less goals than Liverpool, Arsenal being 2nd worse with a 10 goal variable and Chelsea being the lowest at only 27 :smirk: I say no!

And, if their goals are going to be harder to come by, then in-turn, have they stemmed the ability to not let in as many as last year?  The 2 go hand-in-hand for me, Chelsea was a long way off Man City & Liverpool in goals for but still 3rd with 71, our goals against tally was substantially the best and has been for some years, now with an improved attacking formation and with the breakdown and new additions/changes to all those around us, I can't see past a Chelsea domination if their attitude is right from the start :thup:

I personally think, and this is not a wind up, that Everton will finish above both Arsenal & Liverpool, their goals against was the 3rd best [only 1 more than City] and I think they'll increase their goals for by quite a margin this season putting them in a much improved position.

My top 3 are 

Chelsea
Man City
Everton

The rest of you can fight over the scraps but I'd expect a much improved attitude from Manure looking for 4th so Arsenal & Liverpool are fighting for 5th & 6th respectively.

You heard it here 1st :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2014)

Liverpools issues with goals against last season was mainly away from home - 32 goals let in 

Our overall goal difference was +50 - 101 goal scored 

I'm always of the believer that goals win you a football match - for a fair number of years Chelsea have had a strong defence but have struggled to score goals 

Liverpool have bought a number of players to improve defensively and Chelsea have bought one striker - what if he follows the rest and can't hit a barn door from a yard ? The issues will still be the same 

City have the best squad by a country mile - quailty in every position and have just quietly added a couple strong additions 

They should win the prem comfortably 

But as last season proves - it's on the pitch that counts so there is no reason why if Liverpool put in the performances again they can challenge the top two. 

I'm looking forward to the manager continuing the high pressing tactics with the idea to score goals as opposed to parking a bus - I know what makes for better football 

As for Everton in the top 3 ?! No chance - nil , nada and I'll take a bet on that 

It's a decent team no doubt but missing some quality 

Top 4 for me will be 

City
Chelsea
Liverpool
Arsenal


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## Fish (Aug 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm always of the believer that goals win you a football match - for a fair number of years Chelsea have had a strong defence but have struggled to score goals
		
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Other than last season, you have to look back to 2008 to find when Liverpool last scored more goals than Chelsea in the league so that's a damming stat and synopsis for you isn't it? 



Liverpoolphil said:



			Liverpool have bought a number of players to improve defensively and Chelsea have bought one striker - what if he follows the rest and can't hit a barn door from a yard ? The issues will still be the same
		
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We can't hit a barn and yet other than last season, we've scored more than you for more then 6 years! 

Hmm, 1 stiker (Costa) PLUS Drogba and goals also coming from Hazard, Schurlle, Fabregas, Oscar will once again prove that you don't have to rely on a dominant striker for everything as we can score from many areas, as we always have.  Manure did this very well for almost a decade and were very successful, it protects the situation you now find yourselves in now with a dominant goal machine now gone along with at least 30+ goals!


Your still giddy on last seasons fumes which won't repeat themselves and you'll return to your rightful place, 5th at the very best, if you get a half decent start, otherwise your new anthem should be changed to Yellow Submarine, Dive, Dive, Dive....:whoo:


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## MadAdey (Aug 9, 2014)

Rogers looks determined to bring a more proven attacking option in from what I am reading around the Internet. I have put in brackets a score out of 10 to how likely I think a deal could happen.


*Cavani (6)* - his agents claiming Liverpool have made enquiries and he wants to play in England. Also said he isn't bothered about money, he just wants to enjoy his football, so he's saying that he isn't just going to go somewhere to earn big wages for sitting on the bench. He is a big name and the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal that can both offer him regular football may try and make a move for him also. Would love to see him at Liverpool though.
*Reus (5) *- not going to Bayern now. Has a Â£19m release clause that goes into effect next summer so Liverpool are maybe looking at an offer they can't refuse. But seeing as he will be going for somewhere around the Â£20m mark a lot of teams will be interested.
_*Lavezzi (8) *_- PSG forcing him out to make way for other moves like Di Maria. Apparently a bid has been lodged and he is wanting to play in the PL. 1st team football guaranteed in both the PL and CL so Liverpool might just be the move he wants.
*Bony (9) *- will happen if Liverpool make a move IMO as Swansea are accepting that they may loose him. 16 PL and 5 UEFA cup goals shows he can score both at home and in Europe. At around Â£20m would be good value for money.
_*Keita (7) *_- a lot of big clubs showing interest. Bid already turned down but returning with improved offer. He's big strong and fast, can play up top or out wide. Not sure if another promising young (19 year old) player is what we need though. We need some experience coming in.


With Moreno arriving this week nett spend is looking at going up to around Â£30m. So I am guessing there is around Â£30m left in the pot. Borino looking at going this week should put it back up to around Â£45m. So that would be enough to bring in Cavani ormaybe a  combination of 2 from the other 4. Could be an interests week for Liverpool in the transfer market. I would love to see Bony come in with either Lavezzi or Reus. A proven goal scorer and a high speed, skilful, creative, goal scorer would finish the squad off a treat. With the strength in depth that has been added already and 2 of the above, I think that Liverpool will be a very strong team next year.

But that is just my red tinted glasses coming through, but I do think that some of the above will be arriving and the fact that Suarez has gone, who cares..........:thup:


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## Foxholer (Aug 9, 2014)

Fish said:



			Other than last season, you have to look back to 2008 to find when Liverpool last scored more goals than Chelsea in the league so that's a damming stat and synopsis for you isn't it?
		
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Or maybe 'proves' his point!

And while it's both (scoring while not conceding), it seems to me that a sound defence is generally 'more important' than attacking potential. Suarez just added another huge dimension to Liverpool's attack last year!



Fish said:



			We can't hit a barn and yet other than last season, we've scored more than you for more then 6 years!
		
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I think even Jose would admit that it was an inability to score, at times, that cost them last year. Perhaps different this year? Time will tell!


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## Stuart_C (Aug 9, 2014)

Everton top 3?? With that squad??

:rofl: @Fish


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Rogers looks determined to bring a more proven attacking option in from what I am reading around the Internet. I have put in brackets a score out of 10 to how likely I think a deal could happen.


*Cavani (6)* - his agents claiming Liverpool have made enquiries and he wants to play in England. Also said he isn't bothered about money, he just wants to enjoy his football, so he's saying that he isn't just going to go somewhere to earn big wages for sitting on the bench. He is a big name and the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal that can both offer him regular football may try and make a move for him also. Would love to see him at Liverpool though.
*Reus (5) *- not going to Bayern now. Has a Â£19m release clause that goes into effect next summer so Liverpool are maybe looking at an offer they can't refuse. But seeing as he will be going for somewhere around the Â£20m mark a lot of teams will be interested.
_*Lavezzi (8) *_- PSG forcing him out to make way for other moves like Di Maria. Apparently a bid has been lodged and he is wanting to play in the PL. 1st team football guaranteed in both the PL and CL so Liverpool might just be the move he wants.
*Bony (9) *- will happen if Liverpool make a move IMO as Swansea are accepting that they may loose him. 16 PL and 5 UEFA cup goals shows he can score both at home and in Europe. At around Â£20m would be good value for money.
_*Keita (7) *_- a lot of big clubs showing interest. Bid already turned down but returning with improved offer. He's big strong and fast, can play up top or out wide. Not sure if another promising young (19 year old) player is what we need though. We need some experience coming in.


With Moreno arriving this week nett spend is looking at going up to around Â£30m. So I am guessing there is around Â£30m left in the pot. Borino looking at going this week should put it back up to around Â£45m. So that would be enough to bring in Cavani ormaybe a  combination of 2 from the other 4. Could be an interests week for Liverpool in the transfer market. I would love to see Bony come in with either Lavezzi or Reus. A proven goal scorer and a high speed, skilful, creative, goal scorer would finish the squad off a treat. With the strength in depth that has been added already and 2 of the above, I think that Liverpool will be a very strong team next year.

But that is just my red tinted glasses coming through, but I do think that some of the above will be arriving and the fact that Suarez has gone, who cares..........:thup:
		
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In regards Reus it appears the release clause only comes into effect next summer 

Think Bony will arrive - Lavezzi i think would be a cracker


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## Papas1982 (Aug 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In regards Reus it appears the release clause only comes into effect next summer 

Think Bony will arrive - Lavezzi i think would be a cracker
		
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I agree  bony looks likely. Not sure Lavezzi fits your current trend of players purchases as a bit too old for the money he would cost. IMO Liverpool still looking at investment prospects as much as game changers.


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## MadAdey (Aug 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In regards Reus it appears the release clause only comes into effect next summer 

Think Bony will arrive - Lavezzi i think would be a cracker
		
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The situation with Reus is wether they want to loose him for Â£19m next year or take Â£25m now.

Bony and Lavezzi would be awesome and the money is there to do it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 9, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			The situation with Reus is wether they want to loose him for Â£19m next year or take Â£25m now.

Bony and Lavezzi would be awesome and the money is there to do it.
		
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i would offer the Â£25 to 30 mil for Reus right now - quality player


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## MadAdey (Aug 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			i would offer the Â£25 to 30 mil for Reus right now - quality player
		
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How much will they offer and will he come? We do need an experienced proven goal scorer and someone with 30 goals in 62 in the league and 9 in 21 in the CL sure fits that requirement. Put Bony in too would be fantastic. 3 proven goal scorers in the squad, being backed up by Lambert who knows how to score a goal or 2, so with those additions does everyone think we will still fail next year. But only time will tell in the transfer market and I think Bony will come, but it will more likely be Lavezzi than Reus.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			How much will they offer and will he come? We do need an experienced proven goal scorer and someone with 30 goals in 62 in the league and 9 in 21 in the CL sure fits that requirement.
		
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Heard he isnt very happy at the moment - thought a move to Madrid was a given ( personal terms sorted ) and then they went and bought Rodriguez - Bayern have said they havent got space for him - certainly up for moving i think but to us though ? Maybe - offer him good wages and reckon we would have a chance


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 10, 2014)

I said a very long time ago in this thread Reus would be my choice. I'd make him an offer the club and player couldn't refuse


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2014)

Well there is a lot of positives to take from that game 

Coutinho and Sterling are just getting better and better 

Impressive debut from Lovren and Manquillo

Really good display all round - hope Reus sat and watched us take Dortmund apart


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## Papas1982 (Aug 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well there is a lot of positives to take from that game 

Coutinho and Sterling are just getting better and better 

Impressive debut from Lovren and Manquillo

Really good display all round - hope Reus sat and watched us take Dortmund apart
		
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but friendlies are insignificant.......&#128527;


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## Stuart_C (Aug 10, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			but friendlies are insignificant.......&#128527;
		
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I agree with this but had Dortmund beat Liverpool 4-0 the haters would've been out in force questioning Rodgers and co.


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## Fish (Aug 10, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree with this but had Dortmund beat Liverpool 4-0 the haters would've been out in force questioning Rodgers and co.
		
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So a draw would have been better for all concerned :smirk:


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## Papas1982 (Aug 10, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree with this but had Dortmund beat Liverpool 4-0 the haters would've been out in force questioning Rodgers and co.
		
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Maybe so, was more tongue in cheek really. IMO friendlies are important for many things.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe so, was more tongue in cheek really. IMO friendlies are important for many things.
		
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Certainly are important for a number of things but shouldn't IMO be used to judge anything 

A number of things impressed me today and with Markovic and Lallana still to fit in that team then maybe it's just one more attacker we need - the amount of chances we are going to create is going to be great for a striker but lots of players where getting into great positions in the box 

Lovren was very nice on the ball - he will add a different dimension and the back 4 looked very solid - Can and Lucas provided lots of energy and Henderson just continues to impress 

Going to be very interesting - thankfully it appears the same belief and attitude will be evident this year


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## Papas1982 (Aug 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly are important for a number of things but shouldn't IMO be used to judge anything 

A number of things impressed me today and with Markovic and Lallana still to fit in that team then maybe it's just one more attacker we need - the amount of chances we are going to create is going to be great for a striker but lots of players where getting into great positions in the box 

Lovren was very nice on the ball - he will add a different dimension and the back 4 looked very solid - Can and Lucas provided lots of energy and Henderson just continues to impress 

Going to be very interesting - thankfully it appears the same belief and attitude will be evident this year
		
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Cant see Lucas and can playing together IMO. Henderson Gerrard and one more for me. 

Lovren is is a quality cb. We got top money for him. But I'd rather he stayed. But cl was always to hard for us to refuse. Glad we've drawn a line for Morgan.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Cant see Lucas and can playing together IMO. Henderson Gerrard and one more for me. 

Lovren is is a quality cb. We got top money for him. But I'd rather he stayed. But cl was always to hard for us to refuse. Glad we've drawn a line for Morgan.
		
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Lucas and Can won't play together - too similar with Can having a better passing range 

I don't think the Schnderlin situation has gone away yet - he certainly doesn't seem very happy


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## Papas1982 (Aug 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lucas and Can won't play together - too similar with Can having a better passing range 

I don't think the Schnderlin situation has gone away yet - he certainly doesn't seem very happy
		
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No but I have more confidence in our board. We told him not to come in. Not him refuse so showing some strength. I'd still sell him if silly money came in. But if he has to rot in reserves so be it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			No but I have more confidence in our board. We told him not to come in. Not him refuse so showing some strength. I'd still sell him if silly money came in. *But if he has to rot in reserves so be it*.
		
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Just doesnt happen - they will find middle ground and he will either play or leave - your team isnt in the position to let him rot in the ressies


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## Papas1982 (Aug 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just doesnt happen - they will find middle ground and he will either play or leave - your team isnt in the position to let him rot in the ressies
		
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We've made Â£100m and he's only on like 16k. If anything. We're better placed than most IMO. Nit saying it will happen. Just that is should.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well there is a lot of positives to take from that game 

Coutinho and Sterling are just getting better and better 

Impressive debut from Lovren and Manquillo

Really good display all round - hope Reus sat and watched us take Dortmund apart
		
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Absolutely pointless game......result means nothing .......pre season friendly.
Familiar words. Yours I think when Dundee beat ManC.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Absolutely pointless game......result means nothing .......pre season friendly.
Familiar words. Yours I think when Dundee beat ManC.
		
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@Sports******s: Liverpool fans on defeat to Man U
"it's only a friendly"

Liverpool fans on beating Dortmund
"We're going to win the league"

Thought you'd like this  off twitter :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 10, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Absolutely pointless game......result means nothing .......pre season friendly.
Familiar words. Yours I think when Dundee beat ManC.
		
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The result does mean nothing - hence why i never mentioned the result and focused on the individual performances of certain players 

Also havent used it to proclaim anything about the forthcoming season

And you will have to show me where i said anything about "pointless game"


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## el marko (Aug 11, 2014)

Think Liverpool have spent their money incredibly poorly.

22m for Lovren is an absolute joke. 28m for Lallana is a joke. Markovic, Can and Origi for around 40m is ridiculous for unproven players.

All that money and not one world class player. I don't think they'll struggle this season but they really haven't done well in the transfer market.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

el marko said:



			Think Liverpool have spent their money incredibly poorly.

22m for Lovren is an absolute joke. 28m for Lallana is a joke. Markovic, Can and Origi for around 40m is ridiculous for unproven players.

All that money and not one world class player. I don't think they'll struggle this season but they really haven't done well in the transfer market.
		
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Blimey - that's a lot of judgement based on what exactly ? And the fees seem to have increased

Some of the players are a bit more than they are worth - Lallana for Â£20mil ( plus add ons ) is prob a bit too much 

Lovren is prob at Â£20mil prob Â£5mil too much but it's what price is needed to get the players into the club 

As for Can - his clause was Â£10mil - the club valued him a lot higher 

Origi - Â£10mil is a good price for a player who looks like he has the potential to be another Drogba

Markovic - well the guy has already had two CL seasons under his belt and impressed 

They may have cost a lot between them but as long as they perform it's immaterial for me what their price is 

People slated the money we spent on Henderson - that looks a bargain right now. 

The transfer market hasn't finished yet and more will arrive and it's looking very bright right now for us


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - that's a lot of judgement based on what exactly ? And the fees seem to have increased

Some of the players are a bit more than they are worth - Lallana for Â£20mil ( plus add ons ) is prob a bit too much 

Lovren is prob at Â£20mil prob Â£5mil too much but it's what price is needed to get the players into the club 

As for Can - his clause was Â£10mil - the club valued him a lot higher 

Origi - Â£10mil is a good price for a player who looks like he has the potential to be another Drogba

Markovic - well the guy has already had two CL seasons under his belt and impressed 

They may have cost a lot between them but as long as they perform it's immaterial for me what their price is 

People slated the money we spent on Henderson - that looks a bargain right now. 

The transfer market hasn't finished yet and more will arrive and it's looking very bright right now for us
		
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If & it's a big IF Origi ends being half as good as Drogba then Â£10m is a bargain.


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## MadAdey (Aug 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			If & it's a big IF Origi ends being half as good as Drogba then Â£10m is a bargain.
		
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thats the the gamble though. Go into the transfer market and pick up promising young players and hope they do reach their potential. You could wait another year and see how he matures, but if he sticks in 25 goals and a couple for Belguim then all of a sudden he's going to cost over Â£20m.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			thats the the gamble though. Go into the transfer market and pick up promising young players and hope they do reach their potential. You could wait another year and see how he matures, but if he sticks in 25 goals and a couple for Belguim then all of a sudden he's going to cost over Â£20m.
		
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That's the path the owners appear to want to make 

Get the players before they are worth Â£30mil plus


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## JCW (Aug 11, 2014)

el marko said:



			Think Liverpool have spent their money incredibly poorly.

22m for Lovren is an absolute joke. 28m for Lallana is a joke. Markovic, Can and Origi for around 40m is ridiculous for unproven players.

All that money and not one world class player. I don't think they'll struggle this season but they really haven't done well in the transfer market.
		
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Have to agree with you , they must have seen Rogers coming knowing he has funds from LS sale , easy money for one season wonders , they need a carvani


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## MadAdey (Aug 11, 2014)

el marko said:



			Think Liverpool have spent their money incredibly poorly.

22m for Lovren is an absolute joke. 28m for Lallana is a joke. Markovic, Can and Origi for around 40m is ridiculous for unproven players.

All that money and not one world class player. I don't think they'll struggle this season but they really haven't done well in the transfer market.
		
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Not sure sometimes how people make their judgements on players. Lovren is 25 and played 31 PL games last year, also he has played 38 games in European competition and 28 caps for Croatia. Granted, maybe the fee was a little bit high,(which was actually Â£20m) but If you want a player that is tied into a long contract you have to pay to get them.


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## MadAdey (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			Have to agree with you , they must have seen Rogers coming knowing he has funds from LS sale , easy money for one season wonders , they need a carvani
		
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Wodered how long it would take for you to come along............................go play elsewhere as you are really starting to get boring now. Anyone who is as blinkered and narrow minded when it comes to football really can't be taken seriously when they want to say something. &#128075;


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			thats the the gamble though. Go into the transfer market and pick up promising young players and hope they do reach their potential. You could wait another year and see how he matures, but if he sticks in 25 goals and a couple for Belguim then all of a sudden he's going to cost over Â£20m.
		
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I wasn't knocking it. 
You can't buy a proven world class player for Â£10m so if he's got potential it could be a good bit of business. 
Every signing is a gamble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			Have to agree with you , they must have seen Rogers coming knowing he has funds from LS sale , easy money for one season wonders , they need a carvani
		
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Which player is the one season wonder ?


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## JCW (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which player is the one season wonder ?
		
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Most of them , take your pick


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## Fish (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's the path the owners appear to want to make 

Get the players before they are worth Â£30mil plus
		
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or 10 bob :smirk:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			Most of them , take your pick
		
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So again you have no substance to back up your post 

If you are going to call players a one season wonder then at the very least back it up - show us some stats of the players careers to highlight the point you are making 

Lallana - has had two good season in the prem 
Lambert - as above 
Lovren - has had a great season in the Prem after some very good seasons in the French league 
Markovic - had two very good seasons in the CL for Prague then Benfica

The rest are youngsters still developing 

Anything to challenge that ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

Fish said:



			or 10 bob :smirk:
		
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Is Torres worth that much now :smirk:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is Torres worth that much now :smirk:
		
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He's still worth 10bob more than Carroll & Downing


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## MadAdey (Aug 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			He's still worth 10bob more than Carroll & Downing 

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Peggy the tea lady is probably more valuable than those 2......


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## JCW (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So again you have no substance to back up your post 

If you are going to call players a one season wonder then at the very least back it up - show us some stats of the players careers to highlight the point you are making 

Lallana - has had two good season in the prem 
Lambert - as above 
Lovren - has had a great season in the Prem after some very good seasons in the French league 
Markovic - had two very good seasons in the CL for Prague then Benfica

The rest are youngsters still developing 

Anything to challenge that ?
		
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yes ok , a couple had 2 good seasons , but the rest are one season wonders , french league dont count


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## JCW (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is Torres worth that much now :smirk:
		
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Liverpool would have him back in a shot , no question


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			yes ok , a couple had 2 good seasons , but the rest are one season wonders , french league dont count
		
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Why doesn't the French league count ? Where did you get players like Giroud , Adebayour , Nasri  - at times half your team has come from the French league 

The rest are kids for goodness sake - they just getting seasons under their belts.


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## JCW (Aug 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why doesn't the French league count ? Where did you get players like Giroud , Adebayour , Nasri  - at times half your team has come from the French league 

The rest are kids for goodness sake - they just getting seasons under their belts.
		
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because we were talking about PL experience were we not or have the goal post moved again , if i am wrong i stand corrected


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			because we were talking about PL experience were we not or have the goal post moved again , if i am wrong i stand corrected
		
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You never said anything about Prem Experience 

You called them one season wonders - no mention of Prem.


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## richy (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			yes ok , a couple had 2 good seasons , but the rest are one season wonders , french league dont count
		
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Doesn't Cavani play I the French league? You're always banging on about him


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## JCW (Aug 11, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			.??????????? When Phil mentions liverpools history he gets shot down, so what the hell has the last 17 years got to do with anything. In those years you had some top players in each position, now you haven't. 
..........................Liverpool.......Arsenal
League....................18..............13
FA Cup.....................7...............11
League cup...............8................2
Euro Cup/CL..............5...............0
EUFA Cup..................3...............0
Cup Winners Cup.......0................1
Charity Shield...........15..............12
Euro Super Cup.........3................0
Total Trophies............59..............39

So using your flawed logic then Liverpool have to do better than Arsenal because of what has happened in years gone by. Maybe not because it has no bearing on a new season. Rogers has been in charge for 2 seasons and is improving a crap team, Wenger is I charge of Arsenal and they are getting no better, if anything using your talk of years gone by as a bench mark, he is doing worse now than 10 years ago......LOL
		
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There you go phil , the post i was talking about , it was not you but madAdey and he counts them as trophies so i stand corrected


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			There you go phil , the post i was talking about , it was not you but madAdey and he counts them as trophies so i stand corrected
		
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You have posted it in the wrong thread 

And I have already posted the link to that post in the other thread.


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## MadAdey (Aug 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			There you go phil , the post i was talking about , it was not you but madAdey and he counts them as trophies so i stand corrected
		
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Not sure on what point you have regarding that post? I nearly brought that up because you started talking about how Arsenal have out performed Liverpool for the last 10 years, I was nearly pointing out we have out performed you since football began. History and trophies are irrelevant when debating on signings that are being made for the current season, that is unless you are the current CL or PL winners.


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## MadAdey (Aug 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Have to agree with you , they must have seen Rogers coming knowing he has funds from LS sale , easy money for one season wonders , they need a carvani
		
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Do you base your opinions on facts, or just make up your opinions without looking into what you are talking about?

Lallana - PL 68 games 12 goals, England 9 games.
Lambert - PL 75 games 28 goals, England 7 games 3 goals.
So 2 players that have played a lot of games in 2 seasons in the PL and also played on the international stage.

Lovren - PL 31 games 2 goals, Ligue 1 70 games 2 goals, Europe 19 games 1 goal, Croatia 28 games 2 goals.
So plenty of experience at both domestic, European and International level. You say it was only in France but during the Wenger years that is where most of your players have done from.

Markovic - Benfica 26 games 5 goals, Europe 13 games 1 goal, Serbia 13 games 2 goals.
Very young player, but already quite experienced and looks a very good prospect.

Can - Bundesliga 33 games 4 goals, Europe 7 games.
I like the look of him, not got his full cap yet. But with an experienced midfield that has the likes of Sweinsteiger, Gotze, Muller, Ozil, Khediera, it is going to be tough to get that 1st cap at only 20 years old.

The reasons above show why Rogers wanted them and why they are good signing. Some if them might be young but already got quite a bit of experience. The Southampton players are there because they know the PL and can just fit straight in without needing a few games to get use to the pace. You can go abroad and spend a lot of money, but sometimes they do not fit straight and play to their full potential, like Ozil.


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## richy (Aug 12, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			You can go abroad and spend a lot of money, but sometimes they do not fit straight and play to their full potential, like Ozil.
		
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There's a reason why he's nicknamed 'the part-time magician'.


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## JCW (Aug 12, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Not sure on what point you have regarding that post? I nearly brought that up because you started talking about how Arsenal have out performed Liverpool for the last 10 years, I was nearly pointing out we have out performed you since football began. History and trophies are irrelevant when debating on signings that are being made for the current season, that is unless you are the current CL or PL winners.
		
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Because i was talking about the PL and the stats of both clubs and you then posted this and its not correct as Arsenal won the Fairs Cup in 1970 and that is not shown on there 

Latest rumour is they after Eto now


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## G1BB0 (Aug 12, 2014)

Samuel Eto'o is at Liverpool not signed yet though.... decent for a season on a free?

personally think he is past it


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## JCW (Aug 12, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			Samuel Eto'o is at Liverpool not signed yet though.... decent for a season on a free?

personally think he is past it
		
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Why do they need him , back up maybe like Droba at Chelsea , They should have kept Lampard then , he scores plenty


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## MadAdey (Aug 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Because i was talking about the PL and the stats of both clubs and you then posted this and its not correct as Arsenal won the Fairs Cup in 1970 and that is not shown on there 

Latest rumour is they after Eto now
		
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My point was that history has no bearing when talking about signings for the upcoming season. You wanted to use the Wenger years to say arsenal will do better this year than Liverpool, I decided to move the parameters and look at the last 100 years. How Arsenal have performed over the last 15 years is irrelevant in this discussion. 

The title has the words Liverpool and transfer market in it, not in Wenger we trust.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2014)

I hope the Eto Rumours are true :rofl:


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## londonlewis (Aug 12, 2014)

There was a funny clip on facebook last night where a journalist interviewed a Liverpool fan after the Borussia Dortmund game. 

*Journalist: *so you are a Liverpool fan, what do you think of your chances this year? 
*
Fan: *well you know, I think we are definitely going to do the treble 

Amazing! 
I think Liverpool have massively improved their squad this year but has their first team improved without Suarez? 
Additionally, it will be tight at the top with the quality at Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham (well maybe not), Everton (again, maybe not) as to whether Liverpool can fight for the league again. 

Good luck to you boys though, you played some cracking football last season.


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## MadAdey (Aug 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I hope the Eto Rumours are true :rofl:
		
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Depends, if he is coming on a free and is not going to cost a small fortune in wages then and be happy bench warming then cool. If not then why the hell are we looking at him?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Depends, if he is coming on a free and is not going to cost a small fortune in wages then and be happy bench warming then cool. If not then why the hell are we looking at him?
		
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Tbh mate I was happy to see him leave Chelsea. 
He was an excellent player in the past,but looks average at best now. 
I expected him to go to QPR.


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## G1BB0 (Aug 12, 2014)

would be funny if he came off the bench and banged one in whilst torres/Drogba drew a blank... ahhhh wishful thinking lol


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## JCW (Aug 12, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			would be funny if he came off the bench and banged one in whilst torres/Drogba drew a blank... ahhhh wishful thinking lol
		
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Chelsea are relying a lot on this new guy Costa , The Brazilian spainish will need to score and if he breaks a leg in sept then what , Torres or Droba , they have more blanks these days then Blankety Blank ever had , but TBH good stikers are not in big supply at the moment , big demand for any goal scorer , wonder how much Ian Wright would cost these day or even Ian Rush


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Chelsea are relying a lot on this new guy Costa , The Brazilian spainish will need to score and if he breaks a leg in sept then what , Torres or Droba , they have more blanks these days then Blankety Blank ever had , but TBH good stikers are not in big supply at the moment , big demand for any goal scorer , wonder how much Ian Wright would cost these day or even Ian Rush
		
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How would Arsenal do if Ramsey broke his leg??
Or UTD without RVP???
Liverpool without Sturridge??? 
You see where I'm going with this??

When as Drogba drawn blanks?? I still reckon he's got a few goals in him
& wright & rush wouldn't cost as much as the likes of Ronaldo as they weren't as good. Not my opinion FACT.


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## G1BB0 (Aug 12, 2014)

Drogba on his day is hard work for any defence, how much age has taken its toll we will find out but I would rather have him than be marking him!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			Drogba on his day is hard work for any defence, how much age has taken its toll we will find out but I would rather have him than be marking him!
		
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Agreed. Time will tell.


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## JCW (Aug 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			How would Arsenal do if Ramsey broke his leg??
Or UTD without RVP???
Liverpool without Sturridge??? 
You see where I'm going with this??

When as Drogba drawn blanks?? I still reckon he's got a few goals in him
& wright & rush wouldn't cost as much as the likes of Ronaldo as they weren't as good. Not my opinion FACT.
		
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wright and rush were just pure goal scorers , Ronaldo is really a left winger who scores a mountain of goals


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			wright and rush were just pure goal scorers , Ronaldo is really a left winger who scores a mountain of goals
		
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Fair enough. Not sure Wright or Rush would break any transfer fees if they were playing today tho. Both excellent players but I've seen better.


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## Papas1982 (Aug 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Fair enough. Not sure Wright or Rush would break any transfer fees if they were playing today tho. Both excellent players but I've seen better.
		
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I agree. Is probably have rush above wrighty, but there are many players in the last 10 years even who were more prolific.


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## MadAdey (Aug 13, 2014)

Moreno on his way for Â£12m plus add now, good bit if business of you ask me. So a RB, LB, CB, DM, 2 AM and a striker purchased, plus another ST gone back out on loan, that has addressed last years problem of having no real depth in the squad. Nett spend is around the Â£25m mark looking at selling on Borini and Assaidi so that would putt the spending to about even. 

So Rogers still has a nice big wedge of cash to use if the right player comes along, probably in the Â£50-Â£60m region. Maybe there is still enough to put a big offer in for the likes of Reus, Lavezzi & Cavani, can't get all 3 but maybe 2 of them. Only me will tell but I think that he has some more aces to play in the transfer market, but I think it will be closer to the window shutting.


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## Fish (Aug 13, 2014)

JCW said:



*Chelsea are relying a lot on this new guy Costa* , The Brazilian spainish will need to score and if he breaks a leg in sept then what , Torres or Droba , they have more blanks these days then Blankety Blank ever had , but TBH good stikers are not in big supply at the moment , big demand for any goal scorer , wonder how much Ian Wright would cost these day or even Ian Rush
		
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No were not and we've never overly relied on any out-and-out strikers when we get a constant flow of goals from wingers and creative midfielders. Hazard and Schurlle will get their fair share along with Oscar, Fabregas and Salah, set pieces will still allow Cahill, Terry and Ivanovic to get their share also, then Torres and Drogba will notch up some important goals when it matters, the days of relying on a lone striker for everything are well gone IMO, well at least at Chelsea anyway!

With that said, I think Costa will be top goal PL scorer this season :smirk:


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## MadAdey (Aug 13, 2014)

Fish said:



			No were not and we've never overly relied on any out-and-out strikers when we get a constant flow of goals from wingers and creative midfielders. Hazard and Schurlle will get their fair share along with Oscar, Fabregas and Salah, set pieces will still allow Cahill, Terry and Ivanovic to get their share also, then Torres and Drogba will notch up some important goals when it matters, the days of relying on a lone striker for everything are well gone IMO, well at least at Chelsea anyway!

With that said, I think Costa will be top goal PL scorer this season :smirk:
		
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Robin, I was enjoying reading your first paragraph and is spot on.............. Then came the last line.....:rofl:


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## Fish (Aug 13, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			Robin, I was enjoying reading your first paragraph and is spot on.............. Then came the last line.....:rofl:
		
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Why is it so funny, another 2 goals last night, he's looks strong and hungry, takes on defenders at pace and has a quality finish, all the hallmarks that a PL striker need, I can't think of another dominant striker with so much quality around him that could get close.

Top PL scorer 2014/15 :thup:


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## JCW (Aug 13, 2014)

Dreams are made up of dreams , RVP will be the man to beat if fit


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Fish said:



			Why is it so funny, another 2 goals last night, he's looks strong and hungry, takes on defenders at pace and has a quality finish, all the hallmarks that a PL striker need, I can't think of another dominant striker with so much quality around him that could get close.

Top PL scorer 2014/15 :thup:
		
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I've had a couple of quid on him. :thup:


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## el marko (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey - that's a lot of judgement based on what exactly ? And the fees seem to have increased

Some of the players are a bit more than they are worth - Lallana for Â£20mil ( plus add ons ) is prob a bit too much 

Lovren is prob at Â£20mil prob Â£5mil too much but it's what price is needed to get the players into the club 

As for Can - his clause was Â£10mil - the club valued him a lot higher 

Origi - Â£10mil is a good price for a player who looks like he has the potential to be another Drogba

Markovic - well the guy has already had two CL seasons under his belt and impressed 

They may have cost a lot between them but as long as they perform it's immaterial for me what their price is 

People slated the money we spent on Henderson - that looks a bargain right now. 

The transfer market hasn't finished yet and more will arrive and it's looking very bright right now for us
		
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You seriously think Henderson is a bargain? PSG bought Cabaye for the same price and he's twice the player henderson is.

I like the way you say i have nothing to base my judgement on yet you seem to think these players are worth their money.

In regards to transfer fees, these are all off www.transfermarkt.com which i believe far more than any newspaper.

The problem is you have only signed good players. Nothing world class, and you've paid a lot for them. If Liverpool seriously believe your own hype you'd be signing players like Vidal, Sanchez, Reus. Not doing exactly what spurs did and replace Bale with mediocrity.


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## sawtooth (Aug 13, 2014)

If Rodgers manages to get those 8-9 (or more!) new players to gel this year then he is a much better manager then I give him credit for.

Anyone know the odds for Liverpool to finish outside the top 4?


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## Fish (Aug 13, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			If Rodgers manages to get those 8-9 (or more!) new players to gel this year then he is a much better manager then I give him credit for.

Anyone know the odds for Liverpool to finish outside the top 4?

Click to expand...


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## el marko (Aug 13, 2014)

Dont think geling is the issue, they absolutely spanked Dortmund playing some fluid football - If they don't finish top 4 rodgers' job will be on the line.


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## JCW (Aug 13, 2014)

el marko said:



			Dont think geling is the issue, they absolutely spanked Dortmund playing some fluid football - If they don't finish top 4 rodgers' job will be on the line.
		
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It was only a kickabout , do it in the CL  then we talking , at least when Arsenal spank city we were playing for a trophy


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

el marko said:



			You seriously think Henderson is a bargain? PSG bought Cabaye for the same price and he's twice the player henderson is.

I like the way you say i have nothing to base my judgement on yet you seem to think these players are worth their money.

In regards to transfer fees, these are all off www.transfermarkt.com which i believe far more than any newspaper.

The problem is you have only signed good players. Nothing world class, and you've paid a lot for them. If Liverpool seriously believe your own hype you'd be signing players like Vidal, Sanchez, Reus. Not doing exactly what spurs did and replace Bale with mediocrity.
		
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Sturridge , Coutinho , Suarez and Sterling werent world class when we signed them - don't need to sign name players 

We aren't doing nothing like what Spurs did when Bale left 

Yes I believe the Â£16mil we paid for Henderson is turning into a bargain and what is this Liverpool hype you mention ? 

One minutes you say they are good players we have signed then you call them mediocre ?!


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

JCW said:



			It was only a kickabout , do it in the CL  then we talking , at least when Arsenal spank city we were playing for a trophy
		
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The worse thing is i think you actually believe the nonsense you post


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## JCW (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The worse thing is i think you actually believe the nonsense you post
		
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I watch you and learn and say what you like it was a trophy just like what RM won last night , Carvani to Arsenal is latest , only if Di Maria goes to PSG , liverpool bought Eto yet


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## MadAdey (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sturridge , Coutinho , Suarez and Sterling werent world class when we signed them - don't need to sign name players 

We aren't doing nothing like what Spurs did when Bale left 

Yes I believe the Â£16mil we paid for Henderson is turning into a bargain and what is this Liverpool hype you mention ? 

One minutes you say they are good players we have signed then you call them mediocre ?!
		
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why oh why do you get into arguments with these people. It is obvious that they judge players by how good the are on Champ Manager and FIFA. They never look at stats regarding players and do not understand the type of criteria that go into judging a players value. They are probably the same people that wondered why Liverpool are buying Suarez, Sturridge and Couthino because they are seen as top quality players, but most PL teams have lied to have had them in their team last year.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sturridge , Coutinho , Suarez and Sterling werent world class when we signed them - don't need to sign name players 

We aren't doing nothing like what Spurs did when Bale left 

Yes I believe the Â£16mil we paid for Henderson is turning into a bargain and what is this Liverpool hype you mention ? 

One minutes you say they are good players we have signed then you call them mediocre ?!
		
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I agree that Henderson was a bargain. 
But Sturridge,Sterling & Coutunho still aren't world class. Sterling & Coutinho have potential but I'd hardly call them world class at the minute.
As for Sturridge,he's a good player but that's about as good as he'll get IMO.


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## sawtooth (Aug 13, 2014)

Fish said:



View attachment 11917

Click to expand...

Â£10 bet again this year Fish, Chelski finishing behind Arsenal?

Happy to take the same bet with Phil if he thinks Liverpool can finish above Arsenal.


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## Fish (Aug 13, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I agree that Henderson was a bargain. 
But Sturridge,Sterling & Coutunho still aren't world class. Sterling & Coutinho have potential but I'd hardly call them world class at the minute.
As for Sturridge,he's a good player but that's about as good as he'll get IMO.
		
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I agree, I think Stirling has the ability shown so far to become world class but doesn't need to be burned out too quickly and needs to be protected from being played too much, being so young, time will tell but he is a great prospect. Sturridge is OK, as he was at the bridge, he needs quality around him IMO, he can't produce or change anything too much on his own, IMO, not world class now or in the future for me. And to be honest, I would say that if they had my shirts on now not red, just to be clear :smirk:


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## Fish (Aug 13, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Â£10 bet again this year Fish, Chelski finishing behind Arsenal?

Happy to take the same bet with Phil if he thinks Liverpool can finish above Arsenal.
		
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Oh yes, I love easy money :smirk:


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## sawtooth (Aug 13, 2014)

Fish said:



			Oh yes, I love easy money :smirk:
		
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OK we're on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

Just to be clear - I wasn't calling them world class - was just showing that you don't need to sign "name" ( the players people lazily call world class ) players to get a good team 

World Class is a phrase that has been diluted over the years 

Sterling has the potential to be a high quality player and be a real star of the game 

Coutinho is a bit further into his development and is starting to show signs that he will he one of the top players in the Prem 

Sturridge is a top class goalscorer - 

World Class IMO should be for the people that make a World 11 - Suarez is World class for example where as Rooney isn't , that's my way to distinguish between World Class and the top Quality


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Fish said:



			Oh yes, I love easy money :smirk:
		
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I'd feel guilty taking his money


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## Fish (Aug 13, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'd feel guilty taking his money 

Click to expand...

I wasn't last year and won't be again :whoo:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just to be clear - I wasn't calling them world class - was just showing that you don't need to sign "name" ( the players people lazily call world class ) players to get a good team 

World Class is a phrase that has been diluted over the years 

Sterling has the potential to be a high quality player and be a real star of the game 

Coutinho is a bit further into his development and is starting to show signs that he will he one of the top players in the Prem 

Sturridge is a top class goalscorer - 

World Class IMO should be for the people that make a World 11 - Suarez is World class for example where as Rooney isn't , that's my way to distinguish between World Class and the top Quality
		
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So on that basis only one goal keeper can be called world class at any one moment
Personally I think Chelsea have 2 world class Keepers at the minute.


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## MadAdey (Aug 13, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			So on that basis only one goal keeper can be called world class at any one moment
Personally I think Chelsea have 2 world class Keepers at the minute.
		
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I agree with Phil that everyone can't be called world class, I think that is a phrase that should be kept for a select few. I always think if you where going. To pick 2 world 11's to ya each other, would they be on your team sheet, if not then they aren't world class.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			I agree with Phil that everyone can't be called world class, I think that is a phrase that should be kept for a select few. I always think if you where going. To pick 2 world 11's to ya each other, would they be on your team sheet, if not then they aren't world class.
		
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But Ronaldo,Messi,Bale,Suarez,Hazard,Neymar,Ibrahimavic,Falcou,Robben,Iniesta..... Are all world class surely?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 13, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But Ronaldo,Messi,Bale,Suarez,Hazard,Neymar,Ibrahimavic,Falcou,Robben,Iniesta..... Are all world class surely?
		
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IMO for attacking players. Messi and Ronaldo are the benchmark. They're so clearly ahead of the others that we either need a new catergory or the others yiu mentioned simply aren't wc


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			IMO for attacking players. Messi and Ronaldo are the benchmark. They're so clearly ahead of the others that we either need a new catergory or the others yiu mentioned simply aren't wc
		
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It's all about opinion I suppose


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree. Is probably have rush above wrighty, but there are many players in the last 10 years even who were more prolific.
		
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Are we talking Premier League? Who are the 'many' more prolific than Rush in the last 10 years? Shearer retired 8 or 9 years ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Are we talking Premier League? Who are the 'many' more prolific than Rush in the last 10 years? Shearer retired 8 or 9 years ago.
		
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346 goals in 660 games for Liverpool - has anyone in the top league come close to that record ?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Depends how you define prolific. Others have a better goal per game ratio. 
Also his Newcastle & Leeds record wasn't so great. 
Rush was an excellent goal scorer no one is disputing that.


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## richy (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			346 goals in 660 games for Liverpool - has anyone in the top league come close to that record ?
		
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Were they all playing at the top tier of English football?


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Depends how you define prolific. Others have a better goal per game ratio. 
*Also his Newcastle & Leeds record wasn't so great. *
Rush was an excellent goal scorer no one is disputing that.
		
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He was about 34 at the time like and hardly in his prime.

I'm surprised people think Everton will finish top 4 when they've only added 3 players to their squad they had last season when they finished 6th.

Liverpool still need a quality proven goalscorer regardless of how much quality in behind they may or may not have.


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

Ignore. Misread post.


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			He was about 34 at the time like and hardly in his prime.

I'm surprised people think Everton will finish top 4 when they've only added 3 players to their squad they had last season when they finished 6th.

Liverpool still need a quality proven goalscorer regardless of how much quality in behind they may or may not have.
		
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Young players getting better each year.


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## richy (Aug 13, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Ignore. Misread post.
		
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Just wondering why Rush isn't in all time top scorers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Football_first_tier_Top_Scorers#By_Player


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

richy said:



			Were they all playing at the top tier of English football?
		
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That's his Liverpool record alone - so that's both at the top level of English football and also the European Cup


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## Stuart_C (Aug 13, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Young players getting better each year.
		
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Really??

I still think they need more quality in their squad tbh.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

richy said:



			Just wondering why Rush isn't in all time top scorers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Football_first_tier_Top_Scorers#By_Player

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He got 229 in 460 in the League


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## sawtooth (Aug 13, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'd feel guilty taking his money 

Click to expand...

It will be different this year, Arsenal will be champions:whoo:


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

richy said:



			Just wondering why Rush isn't in all time top scorers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Football_first_tier_Top_Scorers#By_Player

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Depends what list you look at and what criteria is used. Your first sentence is misleading. 

http://www.free-elements.com/England/ts0.html


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			He was about 34 at the time like and hardly in his prime.

I'm surprised people think Everton will finish top 4 when they've only added 3 players to their squad they had last season when they finished 6th.

Liverpool still need a quality proven goalscorer regardless of how much quality in behind they may or may not have.
		
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Fair enough,but 5 in 46 for both Newcastle & Leeds.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He got 229 in 460 in the League
		
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Just shows how good Ronaldo is for Real
App-165
Goals-177


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Really??

I still think they need more quality in their squad tbh.
		
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Probably right but we don't claim to be title contenders. A challenge for 4th is our goal, plus our youngsters will continue to improve. Buying a load of players doesn't always help, look at Spurs last year. I also don't think United will improve as much as people think, they'll be playing for 5th at best IMO. I think it's their turn for a few years in the wilderness.


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## richy (Aug 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			346 goals in 660 games for Liverpool - has anyone in the top league come close to that record ?
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			That's his Liverpool record alone - so that's both at the top level of English football and also the European Cup
		
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I thought we were only talking about the top league?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

richy said:



			I thought we were only talking about the top league?
		
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Take your pick from any stat - it will still say the same story 

Rush is up there with the best these shores have seen - his value right now would be through the roof alongside players like Suarez , in 84 he went for a very big fee for that period in the game. 

He has the goals and medals to prove his worth - he was a major part in us dominating in the 80's - his goals helped win us leagues and European Cups. He would have been my idol but for one player.


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

richy said:



			I thought we were only talking about the top league?
		
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Look at my list


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

Just to add, not a fan of Rush. In fact I hated him cos he scored half of those above against us.


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## richy (Aug 13, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Look at my list
		
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I did. What's your point?


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## Papas1982 (Aug 13, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Are we talking Premier League? Who are the 'many' more prolific than Rush in the last 10 years? Shearer retired 8 or 9 years ago.
		
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No I wasn't talking just premierleague. I was talking town leagues throughout Europe. Rush is a great. But nowadays the top strikers are scorer with rates close to 1/1. Whether it be for one season or for ten. Most seasons the top scorers are getting close to 30 league goals a season. It's difficult with different eras. But IMO  to name a few I'd pick Ronaldo (either). Ibrahimovic, RVP, van nistelrooy, messi, batistuta, Henry, villa all ahead of him. Maybe that's because I saw more of them. Maybe it's because they've he really done it at more clubs and score more varied goals. It's all done to opinions. But genuinely this thread aside. If someone pushed me to name my top 20 strikers I don't think I'd of thought of rush.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

gmc40 said:



			Just to add, not a fan of Rush. In fact I hated him cos he scored half of those above against us.
		
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He certainly did enjoy the derby ! Think it's 24 goals he has in derbies


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			No I wasn't talking just premierleague. I was talking town leagues throughout Europe. Rush is a great. But nowadays the top strikers are scorer with rates close to 1/1. Whether it be for one season or for ten. Most seasons the top scorers are getting close to 30 league goals a season. It's difficult with different eras. But IMO  to name a few I'd pick Ronaldo (either). Ibrahimovic, RVP, van nistelrooy, messi, batistuta, Henry, villa all ahead of him. Maybe that's because I saw more of them. Maybe it's because they've he really done it at more clubs and score more varied goals. It's all done to opinions. But genuinely this thread aside. If someone pushed me to name my top 20 strikers I don't think I'd of thought of rush.
		
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That just shows that you grew up watching football during the 90's through to now 


Only Messi and Fake Ronaldo are close to 1/1 

The rest maybe bar Real Ronaldo scored less than Rush

If the hype was the same then as it is now then Rush would be a global star purely by the goals he scored and his link up play was outstanding as well as being the first line of defence.


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

richy said:



			I did. What's your point?
		
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You referred to 'top league'. I had already provided a list of 'top league' highest goal-scorers. That's my point.


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## gmc40 (Aug 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			No I wasn't talking just premierleague. I was talking town leagues throughout Europe. Rush is a great. But nowadays the top strikers are scorer with rates close to 1/1. Whether it be for one season or for ten. Most seasons the top scorers are getting close to 30 league goals a season. It's difficult with different eras. But IMO  to name a few I'd pick Ronaldo (either). Ibrahimovic, RVP, van nistelrooy, messi, batistuta, Henry, villa all ahead of him. Maybe that's because I saw more of them. Maybe it's because they've he really done it at more clubs and score more varied goals. It's all done to opinions. But genuinely this thread aside. If someone pushed me to name my top 20 strikers I don't think I'd of thought of rush.
		
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Messi and Ronaldo are a world apart. 

Although none can touch the legend that is Dixie Dean. 

60 goals in 39 games 1927/8.

On that note, I bid you goodnight!


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## Papas1982 (Aug 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That just shows that you grew up watching football during the 90's through to now 


Only Messi and Fake Ronaldo are close to 1/1 

The rest maybe bar Real Ronaldo scored less than Rush

If the hype was the same then as it is now then Rush would be a global star purely by the goals he scored and his link up play was outstanding as well as being the first line of defence.
		
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They may have lower numbers. But doesn't doesn't mean at their peak they were worse. Yes I grew up in the 90's. If I was older I could include players such as Romario but it would prove anything to you as he's a Liverpool legend. He played his entire prolifoc career playing at the nest club around so would have more chances and score more goals. For me prolific is goals per game ratio and many players have had ratios as good as his. They may not of scored as many goals due to not playing as much but that's irrelevant.


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