# Rangers in Trouble Again



## Doon frae Troon (Aug 30, 2014)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-king-mike-ashley-frame-4132352.

Two weeks to survive unless Ashley comes to the rescue


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## Foxholer (Aug 30, 2014)

Typically overspun - not so much 2 weeks to survive, as 2 weeks until Plan B is required. Or is it Plan G or M  or Y - Plan Z having been done once already! I doubt Ashley's involvement would be allowed to be more than it already is - unless he sold Newcastle - without big issues about 'same competition' rules.

It struck me that the photos of King and Ashley might look more 'interesting' if they were placed in the other order (Ashley,King) - almost captionable then!


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## DCB (Aug 30, 2014)

Hardly a surprise. When you run with overheads greater than your income the something has to give. Going to be an interesting few weeks. They've almost admitted they can't meet their financial obligations..... next step .....


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## Khamelion (Aug 30, 2014)

Ashley bought a load of shares in Rangers only a few weeks ago. It seems that he can own both clubs without there being a conflict in interest, the caveat being that if Rangers were to play Newcastle in Europe, then he would have to pull out or sell one of them as in that scenario, which to be fair is not likely to happen any time soon, is not allowed.


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## Foxholer (Aug 30, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Ashley bought a load of shares in Rangers only a few weeks ago. It seems that he can own both clubs without there being a conflict in interest, the caveat being that if Rangers were to play Newcastle in Europe, then he would have to pull out or sell one of them as in that scenario, which to be fair is not likely to happen any time soon, is not allowed.
		
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I believe the conflict of interest arises if they are in the same competition, not just if they play each other. Ashley's limited to < 10% and he apparently now owns 9%. I don't see Ashley wanting to simply act as a funder - if he invests heavily, he'll want a say in how it's run! Though he may be happy to sell Newcastle, if he can, now that it's back on a better track financially - provided it doesn't cost him.

Rangers seems ripe for the sort of owner that Ashley appears to be, though whether those currently running it will want to lose control is a different story! At the moment, it seems a shambles that needs a 'catastrophic event' (good or bad) to shift them. King looks to be similarly pragmatic about the Club being a business, that can make a profit, rather than a symbol!


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## Khamelion (Aug 30, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			I believe the conflict of interest arises if they are in the same competition, not just if they play each other. Ashley's limited to < 10% and he apparently now owns 9%. I don't see Ashley wanting to simply act as a funder - if he invests heavily, he'll want a say in how it's run! Though he may be happy to sell Newcastle, if he can, now that it's back on a better track financially - provided it doesn't cost him.

Rangers seems ripe for the sort of owner that Ashley appears to be, though whether those currently running it will want to lose control is a different story! At the moment, it seems a shambles that needs a 'catastrophic event' (good or bad) to shift them. King looks to be similarly pragmatic about the Club being a business, that can make a profit, rather than a symbol!
		
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In past season Ashley hasn't really opened the purse to buy players in the close season, relying mainly on over the hill or rubbish free transfers, this way of running Newcastle and his known interest in Rangers has had many suggesting he wanted shot of Newcastle.

Now, while that still may be the case, this close season he's allowed the purchase of a few players and Newcastle has got the usual free transfers, albeit somewhat better than previous seasons. So whether Ashley is having a change of heart, or whether he just wants Newcastle to do well to increase the possibility of someone coming in an buying a club that is financially sound, doing well in the league and possibly the cups.

I think ultimately Ashley will sell Newcastle and he will take over at Rangers, I think Newcastle just need to start playing better before this happens.


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## Hobbit (Aug 30, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			I think ultimately Ashley will sell Newcastle and he will take over at Rangers, I think Newcastle just need to start playing better before this happens.
		
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Looks like he'll be a Newcastle owner for a long time to come...:whoo:


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## Val (Aug 30, 2014)

Sell the naming rights of Ibrox to Ashley for Â£4m and all is well for the time being.


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## palindromicbob (Aug 30, 2014)

Please excuse me while I weep.


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## Dodger (Aug 30, 2014)

Deed yet?

Must go get some more jelly and ice cream.


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## Khamelion (Aug 30, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Looks like he'll be a Newcastle owner for a long time to come...:whoo:
		
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1969, the year of my birth, the last time Newcastle won anything of note, I've got more chance of becoming a scratch golfer than Newcastle has of winning a trophy.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 30, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			1969, the year of my birth, the last time Newcastle won anything of note, I've got more chance of becoming a scratch golfer than Newcastle has of winning a trophy.
		
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Looking at it in a more positive way, they do have a better record than the English national team.


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## Hobbit (Aug 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Looking at it in a more positive way, they do have a better record than the English national team.
		
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Boy George does better records than the current England team


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 30, 2014)

Whilst walking the dog I sussed Ashley's cunning plan.

Buy Rangers, merge them with Newcastle base them at St James's and call them Scottish & Newcastle.


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## Khamelion (Aug 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Whilst walking the dog I sussed Ashley's cunning plan.

Buy Rangers, merge them with Newcastle base them at St James's and call them Scottish & Newcastle.
		
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Sadly what was once the Scottish and Newcastle brewery is now being built into student accommodation and a new part of the university


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## Dodger (Aug 30, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Whilst walking the dog I sussed Ashley's cunning plan.

Buy Rangers, merge them with Newcastle base them at St James's and call them Scottish & Newcastle.
		
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2 pish teams and pish beer.......that cunning plan may have potential.

Up the Queens!:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Ok i prob know the answer 

But is the rivalry that bitter that Celtic fans would want Rangers to go out of business and disappear as a Football Club ?

I know as a Liverpool fan i wouldnt want any of our rival clubs to actually disappear from the map totally.


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ok i prob know the answer 

But is the rivalry that bitter that Celtic fans would want Rangers to go out of business and disappear as a Football Club ?

I know as a Liverpool fan i wouldnt want any of our rival clubs to actually disappear from the map totally.
		
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Yip, you'll have a majority who'll happily see them vanish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Yip, you'll have a majority who'll happily see them vanish.
		
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Thats quite sad really - its sport at the end of the day - rivalry should never be that bitter


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thats quite sad really - its sport at the end of the day - rivalry should never be that bitter
		
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When a chairman and owner of one club publicly states that he'd spend a tenner for every fiver his rivals spend you'll appreciate why there is a lot of smugness over their financial downfall.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thats quite sad really - its sport at the end of the day - rivalry should never be that bitter
		
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Trouble is Phil to quite a few Rangers supporters it is not a sport.

What is this Rangers International FC I see, not spotted that before.
Is it what Sevco/The Rangers have now morphed into?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			When a chairman and owner of one club publicly states that he'd spend a tenner for every fiver his rivals spend you'll appreciate why there is a lot of smugness over their financial downfall.
		
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Its just words at the end of the day - just words - sport thrives on rivalries

The OlD Firm Derby has been a historic part of the global football for over a hundred years - to see that never ben played again is very sad


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



*Trouble is Phil to quite a few Rangers supporters it is not a sport.*

What is this Rangers International FC I see, not spotted that before.
Is it what Sevco/The Rangers have now morphed into?
		
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From what i have read in various places thats not just applicable to Rangers fans


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its just words at the end of the day - just words - sport thrives on rivalries

The OlD Firm Derby has been a historic part of the global football for over a hundred years - to see that never ben played again is very sad
		
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It wasn't words though, he carried it on hence his purchase of Tore Andre Flo for Â£11m when Celtic paid Â£6m for Lennon, Hartson and Sutton, all who had a far greater impact the TAF

And I agree no OF derby is a sad day


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			It wasn't words though, he carried it on hence his purchase of Tore Andre Flo for Â£11m when Celtic paid Â£6m for Lennon, Hartson and Sutton, all who had a far greater impact the TAF
		
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Is that really enough reason for wanting a club to disappear all together ? To celebrate them never playing again ?


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is that really enough reason for wanting a club to disappear all together ? To celebrate them never playing again ?
		
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To some fans yes.

I think you miss the point, they spent money they couldn't afford to try and stay ahead of Celtic and it put them into severe financial trouble hence the administration and liquidation, that is what there is a smugness from a lot of Celtic fans. 

I suppose its a case of you reap what you sow and deserve the outcome.

Your example is different, none of the clubs you mention are in financial trouble, debt maybe but not trouble.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			I think you miss the point, they spent money they couldn't afford to try and stay ahead of Celtic and it put them into severe financial trouble hence the administration and liquidation, that is what there is a smugness from a lot of Celtic fans. 

I suppose its a case of you reap what you sow and deserve the outcome.

Your example is different, none of the clubs you mention are in financial trouble, debt maybe but not trouble.
		
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Yes i see what they have done and they have made a mess of their club and certainy dont deserve any sympathy and being in the lower divisions is no doubt what they deserve. And if Man Utd etc did struggle on the pitch etc they i would be delighted but goi9ng out of business all together - nah i wouldnt ever want to see any club going out of business

Its a shame to see some fans wanting and celebrating the fact that could happen to Rangers

They are a historic club in world football and we shouldnt want to see clubs like that go


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes i see what they have done and they have made a mess of their club and certainy dont deserve any sympathy and being in the lower divisions is no doubt what they deserve. And if Man Utd etc did struggle on the pitch etc they i would be delighted but goi9ng out of business all together - nah i wouldnt ever want to see any club going out of business

Its a shame to see some fans wanting and celebrating the fact that could happen to Rangers

They are a historic club in world football and we shouldnt want to see clubs like that go
		
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They are hated by many sections of Scottish football for what they have done to our game up here, driven by the greed and ego of their former chairman.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			They are hated by many sections of *Scottish football for what they have done to our game up here*, driven by the greed and ego of their former chairman.
		
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Genuine question - what are they getting the blame for ?


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Genuine question - what are they getting the blame for ?
		
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I would rather someone else answer this too who isn't a Celtic fan but I will add my tuppence.

Since the mid 80's when Rangers began to sign the best players in the UK (England's back 4 almost) there has been more money spent and cheap imports brought into the Scottish game to try and keep up with Rangers. Rangers won 9 league titles in a row when Celtic had no money and owners who were bleeding the club dry, Aberdeen spent big to try and keep pace too with them still being the only other club in Scotland to pay over Â£1m for a player and that was back in the late 90's.

Rightly or wrongly Rangers spent big and the only way clubs could keep up was to try and follow suit and now we are in the situation we are now with Rangers making their way back up the leagues after being re-formed after liquidation, Dundee have had 2 administrations, Airdrie went and disappeared, Hearts in administration, Motherwell in administration and lets not forget Celtic being brought back from the brink of administration when Fergus McCann took over. IMO this all started when clubs tried to keep up with Rangers spending.

There is also this better than everyone attitude from an element of Rangers support who despise everything about Scottish football other than Rangers, a no one likes us we don't care attitude, a we are Rangers we'll do what we want attitude. Now this is not aimed at all Rangers fans as there are a number of them who I genuinely feel for, they have been turned over by those running the team they support.

Just my tuppence, quite frankly I couldn't care what happens to any club in Scotland now, the game is ruined up here and I only follow the results when I have a coupon on. Of course I still want Celtic to win everything as that never leaves you but it wouldn't bother me if I never went to another Celtic game again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			I would rather someone else answer this too who isn't a Celtic fan but I will add my tuppence.

Since the mid 80's when Rangers began to sign the best players in the UK (England's back 4 almost) there has been more money spent and cheap imports brought into the Scottish game to try and keep up with Rangers. Rangers won 9 league titles in a row when Celtic had no money and owners who were bleeding the club dry, Aberdeen spent big to try and keep pace too with them still being the only other club in Scotland to pay over Â£1m for a player and that was back in the late 90's.

Rightly or wrongly Rangers spent big and the only way clubs could keep up was to try and follow suit and now we are in the situation we are now with Rangers making their way back up the leagues after being re-formed after liquidation, Dundee have had 2 administrations, Airdrie went and disappeared, Hearts in administration, Motherwell in administration and lets not forget Celtic being brought back from the brink of administration when Fergus McCann took over. IMO this all started when clubs tried to keep up with Rangers spending.

There is also this better than everyone attitude from an element of Rangers support who despise everything about Scottish football other than Rangers, a no one likes us we don't care attitude, a we are Rangers we'll do what we want attitude. Now this is not aimed at all Rangers fans as there are a number of them who I genuinely feel for, they have been turned over by those running the team they support.

Just my tuppence, quite frankly I couldn't care what happens to any club in Scotland now, the game is ruined up here and I only follow the results when I have a coupon on. Of course I still want Celtic to win everything as that never leaves you but it wouldn't bother me if I never went to another Celtic game again.
		
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Cheers for that Val and can certainly remember the Souness years then the Smith years when it was just Rangers year in year out and they certainly bought a lot of players.

I guess the lack of telly money hasnt helped as well 

The best thing IMO for Scottish football would be both he Glasgow teams battling for the title and also a few others getting into the mix to ensure its not a walkover year in year out. Regardless of the ability of the players - a tight title race can be sold - Sky have just bought the rights to the Dutch league - the quality isnt up there with the best but its a title race that will no be over on day one.

Its why i believe that Celtic need Rangers in the top league and challenging them - i know thats not an opinion shared by many - but Rangers going out of business does Scottish football no favours at all.


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its why i believe that Celtic need Rangers in the top league and challenging them - i know thats not an opinion shared by many - but Rangers going out of business does Scottish football no favours at all.
		
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Can't say I disagree, I believe long term Rangers starting from the bottom benefits every team in Scotland except Celtic but Celtic will survive until they make it back to the top table whenever that may be.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Can't say I disagree, I believe long term Rangers starting from the bottom benefits every team in Scotland except Celtic but Celtic will survive until they make it back to the top table whenever that may be.
		
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Yep gotta agree with that - other teams build up to challenge Celtic and then Rangers get there and challenge as well and then a product appears to sell to Sky etc.


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep gotta agree with that - other teams build up to challenge Celtic and then Rangers get there and challenge as well and then a product appears to sell to Sky etc.
		
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Also smaller clubs in the lower leagues get a bump in attendance as Rangers come to town twice a season.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Also smaller clubs in the lower leagues get a bump in attendance as Rangers come to town twice a season.
		
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Yeah thats a very good point as well - has that happened then ?


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## Foxholer (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino said:



			I would rather someone else answer this too who isn't a Celtic fan but I will add my tuppence.

Since the mid 80's when Rangers began to sign the best players in the UK (England's back 4 almost) there has been more money spent and cheap imports brought into the Scottish game to try and keep up with Rangers. Rangers won 9 league titles in a row when Celtic had no money and owners who were bleeding the club dry, Aberdeen spent big to try and keep pace too with them still being the only other club in Scotland to pay over Â£1m for a player and that was back in the late 90's.

Rightly or wrongly Rangers spent big and the only way clubs could keep up was to try and follow suit and now we are in the situation we are now with Rangers making their way back up the leagues after being re-formed after liquidation, Dundee have had 2 administrations, Airdrie went and disappeared, Hearts in administration, Motherwell in administration and lets not forget Celtic being brought back from the brink of administration when Fergus McCann took over. IMO this all started when clubs tried to keep up with Rangers spending.

There is also this better than everyone attitude from an element of Rangers support who despise everything about Scottish football other than Rangers, a no one likes us we don't care attitude, a we are Rangers we'll do what we want attitude. Now this is not aimed at all Rangers fans as there are a number of them who I genuinely feel for, they have been turned over by those running the team they support.

Just my tuppence, quite frankly I couldn't care what happens to any club in Scotland now, the game is ruined up here and I only follow the results when I have a coupon on. Of course I still want Celtic to win everything as that never leaves you but it wouldn't bother me if I never went to another Celtic game again.
		
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An extremely fair summary imo!

I'm not entirely sure Rangers can be held responsible for the death/administration of the other clubs - it was their decision to chase Rangers - but certainly have little sympathy for Rangers in their current plight!

It's where I believe Wenger has been fabulous for Arsenal - producing a competitive team with sensible financial constraints - where others have not been very good - 'Arry for example. That's why I believe an Ashley type approach - as he appears to have done at Newcastle to the occasional uproar from fans - would work. If the current directors really cared for the club, I believe they should bite the likes of Ashley's or King's hands off for them to take over. I think it's just their own greed and the knowledge that they would be out the door fast that is stopping them - while they have got Rangers back near he top, their contribution to the health of 'the Club' hasn't really warranted their retention imo. It's just a case of finding the right 'deal', otherwise another admin period - and return to the bottom league - will be the result!


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 31, 2014)

Another good post from Val.

I would add my tuppence worth and include the decisions made to exclude clubs from the first tier unless their grounds were a minimum 10,000 all seater stadium. This reform seemed to be very much Old Firm driven with the SFA and Leagues more or less their puppets.
Ambitious second tier clubs conformed to this and put themselves in serious debt. Morton, Falkirk, Hamilton, Raith and a few others were lost for about 10 years.
If I remember correctly Falkirk twice Qualified for the 1st tier but were not admitted due to the ground requirements.

6,000+ at Stair Park and 16,000+ at Tynecastle shows that we do not need the Old Firm to attract decent crowds.


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## CMAC (Aug 31, 2014)

Val makes a good point about clubs trying to catch up with Rangers, trouble was they (like golfers) thought they could buy a better team with not a lot of cash but it was more than they had.

There are other ways they should have done it imo, starting at grass roots and identifying, nurturing and training youngsters. It would have taken them longer but they would probably still be in existence.

I also gave up on Scottish football many years ago, I find it sad and depressing now when it used to be exciting and full of hope.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 31, 2014)

CMAC said:



			Val makes a good point about clubs trying to catch up with Rangers, trouble was they (like golfers) thought they could buy a better team with not a lot of cash but it was more than they had.

There are other ways they should have done it imo, starting at grass roots and identifying, nurturing and training youngsters. It would have taken them longer but they would probably still be in existence.

I also gave up on Scottish football many years ago, I find it sad and depressing now when it used to be exciting and full of hope.
		
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yes and no!

I think the last couple of years has proven that Scotland would do very nicely thank you without the old Old Firm.
I feel genuinely sorry for the genuine Rangers fans and no sympathy at all to those who only support them because of the historical baggage they drag around with them.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			yes and no!

I think the last couple of years has* proven that Scotland would do very nicely thank you without the old Old Firm*.
I feel genuinely sorry for the genuine Rangers fans and no sympathy at all to those who only support them because of the historical baggage they drag around with them.
		
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In what way has it proven that ?


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## CMAC (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			yes and no!

*I think the last couple of years has proven that Scotland would do very nicely thank you without the old Old Firm.*
I feel genuinely sorry for the genuine Rangers fans and no sympathy at all to those who only support them because of the historical baggage they drag around with them.
		
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what? mediocre football at shoddy football stadiums at ridiculous prices. If thats doing "very nicely thank you" I'd hate to see 'poor'


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## williamalex1 (Aug 31, 2014)

Doesn't help things when the likes of Graham Wallace could take a 100% bonus on his Â£ 315.000 salary after running the club into the ground again.
 I feel sorry for the supporters who have put money into this shambles. And as for the actual football that's even a bigger shambles.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2014)

I can't really have any real input into this living so far away and not being Scottish and so having no affiliation with any club up there but I think the Valentino post is pretty spot on. However as a sports fan in general, derby matches are a mainstay of the fixture list in every footballing country across the world and so the possibility of Rangers going bust and losing one of the most famous rivalries in global football is very sad. 

I don't know what the solution to the state of Scottish football is other than looking in as very much an outsider, there seems to be problems of a financial nature throughout the league structure, which has been going on for a few years now and doesn't seem to be resolved fully. Without stability and a competitive top league, money isn't going to be pumped into your football at the same levels forever and investors in TV and advertising want some sort of return. With the money men in clubs still wanting their % all the ingredients are falling in place for a big name to eventually come to the end. I really hope I'm wrong and equally hope it isn't Rangers


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 31, 2014)

It is all about money now, lets buy a team and win the league........so sad.


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## Dodger (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It is all about money now, lets buy a team and win the league........so sad.
		
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Has it not always been that way?

Teams at the top spend the most and pay the most,most of the time since day dot.

Anyways back on topic are they deed yet...again?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			It is all about money now, lets buy a team and win the league........so sad.
		
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Been that way for decades now


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Has it not always been that way?

Teams at the top spend the most and pay the most,most of the time since day dot.
*
Anyways back on topic are they deed yet...again?*

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So im guessing you are one of the fans that want them gone

Is it because of the reasons Val has mentioned or is there more


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 31, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Has it not always been that way?

Teams at the top spend the most and pay the most,most of the time since day dot.

Anyways back on topic are they deed yet...again?
		
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Not really I remember teams like Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock winning the league when Rangers and Celtic were still the big spenders.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not really I remember teams like Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock winning the league when Rangers and Celtic were still the big spenders.
		
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You are going back 50 years plus for Kilmarnock and 30 years for Dundee Utd and Aberdeen. 

And they are odd occasions as opposed to the norm


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## williamalex1 (Aug 31, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Has it not always been that way?

Teams at the top spend the most and pay the most,most of the time since day dot.

Anyways back on topic are they deed yet...again?
		
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 Dodger I had hoped marriage would have mellowed you a bit.:cheers: I just read Peter Lawwell's statement " Rangers demise has cost Celtic Â£10 million PER season" and that's why there is no money in the kitty to but expensive players.

 With Hearts and Hibs now out of the SPL it's not looking good. So come on down and join us.:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not really I remember teams like Aberdeen, Dundee United and Kilmarnock winning the league when Rangers and Celtic were still the big spenders.
		
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Been a long time since too many others have upset the big two winning the league and certainly not regularly


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## toyboy54 (Aug 31, 2014)

Valentino..........who is this MAJORITY you speak about?


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## Val (Aug 31, 2014)

toyboy54 said:



			Valentino..........who is this MAJORITY you speak about?
		
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Celtic fans, it's in the post I quoted in post 18


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 1, 2014)

Celtic in 6th place at the moment - but they should be OK for Top 6 towards end of this season.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 1, 2014)

Valentino said:



			I'm sure you've read plenty Celtic forums to see for yourself, you don't need facts and figures to understand the resentment amongst the majority of Celtic fans that Rangers were allowed to be reborn and play in the Scottish leagues.
		
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You know, much as I dread getting involved in another of these interminable threads, I have never understood this particular gripe.

OK, I do understand it - a large proportion of football fans, especially OF fans, are generally bitter, tribalistic morons who discard all reason in pursuing their irrational hatred of the "other side".


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## Val (Sep 1, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			You know, much as I dread getting involved in another of these interminable threads, I have never understood this particular gripe.

OK, I do understand it - a large proportion of football fans, especially OF fans, are generally bitter, tribalistic morons who discard all reason in pursuing their irrational hatred of the "other side".
		
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Spot on, hence my generalisation earlier in the thread which for some reason Toyboy54 is questioning.

There are Celtic and Rangers fans who take more pleasure in seeing the other losing than their own team winning.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 1, 2014)

Valentino said:



			There are Celtic and Rangers fans who take more pleasure in seeing the other losing than their own team winning.
		
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That is as good a summing up about that pair as you can get.......Liverpool said that it was sport, not to them.


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## DCB (Sep 1, 2014)

Let's keep it civil please, no need for spurious allegations. The thread is progressing nicely and doesn't new to descend into a name calling fest that so many others have.


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## williamalex1 (Sep 1, 2014)

My daughter and 2 of my 4 grand children and most of my mates are Celtic fans , I'm a Rangers fan and my daughters partner is a real blue nose , in fact his surname is Blue. But we manage to have good humoured banter , and never had a fall out.


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## User62651 (Sep 2, 2014)

Biggest bugbear for me is what appears to be many Rangers fans going into a referendum for independence with their decisions being made to vote no on the basis of their football team having the colours of the Union Jack and a misguided sense of loyalty to the crown. I don't get the feeling Celtic fans are voting yes by the same reasoning  i.e. giving 2 fingers to the UK as some kind of pro Ireland stance. 
By all means vote but please base it on political reasoning not football!


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 2, 2014)

maxfli65 said:



			Biggest bugbear for me is what appears to be many Rangers fans going into a referendum for independence with their decisions being made to vote no on the basis of their football team having the colours of the Union Jack and a misguided sense of loyalty to the crown. I don't get the feeling Celtic fans are voting yes by the same reasoning  i.e. giving 2 fingers to the UK as some kind of pro Ireland stance. 
By all means vote but please base it on political reasoning not football!

Click to expand...

What a bizarre post. You are very bitter indeed if you believe that.


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## Foxholer (Sep 2, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			What a bizarre post. You are very bitter indeed if you believe that.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, very strange! I'd be interested to know what concrete evidence he has for that reasoning! While I'd suspect the voting tendencies would be along those lines, I'd be pretty sure he hasn't talked in depth with many on 'the other side'!

To me, Williamalex1's situation is the way it should be, but apparently rarely is!


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## User62651 (Sep 2, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			What a bizarre post. You are very bitter indeed if you believe that.
		
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Its not bizarre, it right here in Rangers Media forum, 19 pages of it! - http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=273179

I dont know what to believe but thats how some of it reads. I'm not bitter either, just surprised and a bit shocked.


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## Val (Sep 2, 2014)

maxfli65 said:



			Its not bizarre, it right here in Rangers Media forum, 19 pages of it! - http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=273179

I dont know what to believe but thats how some of it reads. I'm not bitter either, just surprised and a bit shocked.
		
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Rangers media :rofl:

That even makes the Daily Mails' stories credible.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Sep 2, 2014)

maxfli65 said:



			Biggest bugbear for me is what appears to be many Rangers fans going into a referendum for independence with their decisions being made to vote no on the basis of their football team having the colours of the Union Jack and a misguided sense of loyalty to the crown. I don't get the feeling Celtic fans are voting yes by the same reasoning  i.e. giving 2 fingers to the UK as some kind of pro Ireland stance. 
By all means vote but please base it on political reasoning not football!

Click to expand...

Can I guess that you are both a Celtic fan, and a Yes voter?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 2, 2014)

maxfli65 said:



			Its not bizarre, it right here in Rangers Media forum, 19 pages of it! - http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=273179

I dont know what to believe but thats how some of it reads. I'm not bitter either, just surprised and a bit shocked.
		
Click to expand...

I don't find it bizarre at all -and actually find it strange that some might not see why some Rangers supporters might vote NO simply on the grounds of Rangers being a Unionist club and it would therefore be disloyal to vote YES.  

Likewise I read this morning that one instance of YES campaigners being 'attacked' was outside of Tynecastle before a Hearts game.


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## User62651 (Sep 2, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Can I guess that you are both a Celtic fan, and a Yes voter?
		
Click to expand...

Answers: NO (Aberdeen) and undecided.


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## User62651 (Sep 2, 2014)

Valentino said:



			Rangers media :rofl:

That even makes the Daily Mails' stories credible.
		
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I agree, but it's not a newspaper, it's fans opinions. I look in sometimes, as I do Celtics and other teams forums, but given Rangers current lower league status and financial problems, theirs is perhaps more interesting these days - the banter and delusion can be fairly amusing, like any forum.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 4, 2014)

Cavalry to the rescue.......they have just sold Ibrox naming rights to Ashley for loads.




Â£1.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Cavalry to the rescue.......they have just sold Ibrox naming rights to Ashley for loads.




Â£1.
		
Click to expand...

Deal was struck two years ago


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Deal was struck two years ago
		
Click to expand...

Yea........I wonder why they put a press blackout on it.  [no I don't really]


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yea........I wonder why they put a press blackout on it.  [no I don't really]
		
Click to expand...


Because maybe the press didn't know


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## Dodger (Sep 4, 2014)

Ahmed back in to freeze the Â£650000.

Previously it's been kicked out twice as the judge said that there was no credible threat that The Rangers would be unable to pay the Â£650000 if Ahmed won. By The Rangers own words they are bust if the share issue fails so I can't see how a judge could possibly argue against Ahmed this time. 

And I am aware the rights were sold 2 years ago but this is now yet another revenue stream that is closed. The SRU sold the naming rights to Murrayfield for Â£20 million...The Rangers sold theirs for 100 pennies.

Time for a spot of karaoke.

And now, the end is near............:whoo:


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## Iaing (Sep 4, 2014)

Jeez. With a Yes vote looking very possible, and now this, it's no wonder the bluenoses are getting a bit grumpy lol.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Ahmed back in to freeze the Â£650000.

Previously it's been kicked out twice as the judge said that there was no credible threat that The Rangers would be unable to pay the Â£650000 if Ahmed won. By The Rangers own words they are bust if the share issue fails so I can't see how a judge could possibly argue against Ahmed this time. 

And I am aware the rights were sold 2 years ago but this is now yet another revenue stream that is closed. The SRU sold the naming rights to Murrayfield for Â£20 million...The Rangers sold theirs for 100 pennies.

Time for a spot of karaoke.

And now, the end is near............:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Is the bitterness that strong you actually want to see them disappear ? 

Can you tell me why someone would ever feel that strongly in the negative towards a club you would want it gone ?


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## Dodger (Sep 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is the bitterness that strong you actually want to see them disappear ? 

Can you tell me why someone would ever feel that strongly in the negative towards a club you would want it gone ?
		
Click to expand...

Do you really need to be told again or are you simply wanting a late night argument?


Karma is cruel sometimes.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Do you really need to be told again or are you simply wanting a late night argument?


Karma is cruel sometimes.
		
Click to expand...


Well other people have had a few guesses at why some people want a club to disappear ( because they didn't actually want them gone )- you are actually the only person I know that wants a club gone 

No arguments just a plain clear reason why someone would want a sports club gone.


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## HughJars (Sep 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well other people have had a few guesses at why some people want a club to disappear ( because they didn't actually want them gone )- you are actually the only person I know that wants a club gone 

No arguments just a plain clear reason why someone would want a sports club gone.
		
Click to expand...

There are many many fans in Scotland who want the [Mod Edit] gone. the reason? They cheated, with the clear help of the authorities, and even when it was clear what route had to be taken, if it hadnt been for social media it's almost certain they would have been allowed straight into the SPL when the new club formed.

They do no good for the game, they continue to cheat, the only chance for the game to move forward in this country is for this club to cease to exist forever.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 4, 2014)

HughJars said:



			There are many many fans in Scotland who want the [Mod Edit] gone. the reason? They cheated, with the clear help of the authorities, and even when it was clear what route had to be taken, if it hadnt been for social media it's almost certain they would have been allowed straight into the SPL when the new club formed.

They do no good for the game, they continue to cheat, the only chance for the game to move forward in this country is for this club to cease to exist forever.
		
Click to expand...

What do you mean by cheated ? How have they cheated and continue to cheat ?


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## DCB (Sep 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil, 

Back in 1994 the boot was on the other foot. Rangers were flying high with many internationalists on their books, they seemed to be able to to pick and choose who they bought and played at virtually any position on the park. Season ticket sales were massive as you would expect from a winning team. Celtic were struggling both on and off the park. Unable to compete with the big money offered by Rangers Celtic started a spiral that nearly caused their demise. Celtic were slipping towards bankruptcy much to the joy of their city rivals. In stepped wee Fergus McCann who bought a controlling interest in Celtic and set them up on a firm business footing. He helped them create one of the best grounds in Scotland and managed to put a team on the park that stopped Rangers breaking their run of Championship wins.

We now know why Rangers were able to fund such extravagant signings, unfortunately several other clubs in Scotland tried to compete and hit the banckruptcy proceedings sooner or later (My own club being one of them, but that's a slightly different story)

There are a lot of issues that need to be reviewed, on both sides, unfortunately these issues run deep and will probably always be there.


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## turkish (Sep 5, 2014)

But they didn't cheat did they; it's been proved in court; both in terms of financial cheating and sporting advantage


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## phil78 (Sep 5, 2014)

Was it not also David Murray that called in the last debt at Airdire causing them to die. 

Happy to see Rangers totally die, equally happy to see Celtic go the same way.
Any other club in Scotland? Nope, just those 2.


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## DCB (Sep 5, 2014)

turkish said:



			But they didn't cheat did they; it's been proved in court; both in terms of financial cheating and sporting advantage
		
Click to expand...

They used all methods at their disposal at that time to fund their team in those days. If HMRC are unsuccessful in their appeal, then yes, effectively it will have been proved they didn't cheat financially. 

As to sporting advantage...... this is where integrity and morals come into play IMO


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 5, 2014)

I think Celtic now have a much better chance of joining the English leagues....best option for Scotland and England all round.
Replace Blackpool when the go bust perhaps [sorry Louise]


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## turkish (Sep 5, 2014)

But they didn't gain any sporting advantage- this was legally proved to be the case of a Supreme Courts of Scotland Judge but carry on if it makes ye happy cuz I know this will not make a blind bit of difference to you


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## DCB (Sep 5, 2014)

Wonder how MIM managed to put the top basketball players on the court in those heady days way back then


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## Dodger (Sep 5, 2014)

turkish said:



			But they didn't gain any sporting advantage- this was legally proved to be the case of a Supreme Courts of Scotland Judge but carry on if it makes ye happy cuz I know this will not make a blind bit of difference to you
		
Click to expand...

A NO voter who is a Sevconian.

Surprise surprise.


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## turkish (Sep 5, 2014)

Haha tbf I think that's BS, we have a big group of mates both sides, not one Celtic fan is a No voter, half Rangers fans are yes and half are no... small sample size right enough!


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 5, 2014)

DCB said:



			They used all methods at their disposal at that time to fund their team in those days. If HMRC are unsuccessful in their appeal, then yes, effectively it will have been proved they didn't cheat financially. 

As to sporting advantage...... this is where integrity and morals come into play IMO
		
Click to expand...

One wonders how many times Rangers will have to win this particular argument in court. Maybe it'll be third time lucky for HMRC....


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## DCB (Sep 5, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			One wonders how many times Rangers will have to win this particular argument in court. Maybe it'll be third time lucky for HMRC....
		
Click to expand...

Just remember if HMRC win their appeal, Rangers will then appeal that decision.....


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## DCB (Sep 5, 2014)

turkish said:



			But they didn't gain any sporting advantage- this was legally proved to be the case of a Supreme Courts of Scotland Judge but carry on if it makes ye happy cuz I know this will not make a blind bit of difference to you
		
Click to expand...

Are you referring to me ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 5, 2014)

DCB said:



			Liverpoolphil, 

Back in 1994 the boot was on the other foot. Rangers were flying high with many internationalists on their books, they seemed to be able to to pick and choose who they bought and played at virtually any position on the park. Season ticket sales were massive as you would expect from a winning team. Celtic were struggling both on and off the park. Unable to compete with the big money offered by Rangers Celtic started a spiral that nearly caused their demise. Celtic were slipping towards bankruptcy much to the joy of their city rivals. In stepped wee Fergus McCann who bought a controlling interest in Celtic and set them up on a firm business footing. He helped them create one of the best grounds in Scotland and managed to put a team on the park that stopped Rangers breaking their run of Championship wins.

We now know why Rangers were able to fund such extravagant signings, unfortunately several other clubs in Scotland tried to compete and hit the banckruptcy proceedings sooner or later (My own club being one of them, but that's a slightly different story)

There are a lot of issues that need to be reviewed, on both sides, unfortunately these issues run deep and will probably always be there.
		
Click to expand...

Oh I fully understand that and know that and can see why people would not wish Rangers to do well but to actually want the club to disappear of the face of the world because they bought players ? That's a little bit more


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 5, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think Celtic now have a much better chance of joining the English leagues....best option for Scotland and England all round.
Replace Blackpool when the go bust perhaps [sorry Louise]
		
Click to expand...

Every now and then you post some right crackers that go beyond the line - that's another :rofl:


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## DCB (Sep 5, 2014)

LPP, Come up some time and go to an old firm game, make your own mind up when you experience the atmosphere at the match 

It goes a lot deeper than anything done in the last 25 years.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 5, 2014)

DCB said:



			Just remember if HMRC win their appeal, Rangers will then appeal that decision.....
		
Click to expand...

The lawyers are loving it!


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every now and then you post some right crackers that go beyond the line - that's another :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Thank you. Like most of my thoughts they are generally on a time scale that no one can comprehend.


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## ger147 (Sep 5, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Ahmed back in to freeze the Â£650000.

Previously it's been kicked out twice as the judge said that there was no credible threat that The Rangers would be unable to pay the Â£650000 if Ahmed won. By The Rangers own words they are bust if the share issue fails so I can't see how a judge could possibly argue against Ahmed this time. 

And I am aware the rights were sold 2 years ago but this is now yet another revenue stream that is closed. The SRU sold the naming rights to Murrayfield for Â£20 million...The Rangers sold theirs for 100 pennies.

Time for a spot of karaoke.

And now, the end is near............:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Court has frozen Â£620k worth of Rangers club assets as per Ahmed's request.


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## Iaing (Sep 5, 2014)

Tick tock...


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## Dodger (Sep 5, 2014)

Iaing said:



			Tick tock...
		
Click to expand...

#PrayForSevco


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## Beezerk (Oct 1, 2014)

Craig Whyte given a 15 years director ban, amazingly the missus just popped out with that gem (she's a lawyer type).


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## FairwayDodger (Oct 1, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Craig Whyte given a 15 years director ban, amazingly the missus just popped out with that gem (she's a lawyer type).
		
Click to expand...

A good start but he deserves nothing less than prison time.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 1, 2014)

I thought perhaps this post was about them struggling to get out of the Championship league and being 6 points behind the magnificent Jambos


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## FairwayDodger (Oct 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I thought perhaps this post was about them struggling to get out of the Championship league and being 6 points behind the magnificent Jambos

Click to expand...

No.... you're really off topic there.... Infraction please mods!!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I thought perhaps this post was about them struggling to get out of the Championship league and being 6 points behind the magnificent Jambos

Click to expand...

If you want to read posts by Teddy Bears combusting have a read of the Rangers vs Hibs thread on The Bears Den forum 

(btw Rangers lost at home to Hibs on Monday evening - and it was 'carnage').  And here was me beginning to feel a wee bit sorry for Rangers Supporters.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 1, 2014)

The funniest bit is that they cant afford to sack their Â£850,000.00 a year manager.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The funniest bit is that they cant afford to sack their Â£850,000.00 a year manager.
		
Click to expand...

I read (on the Bears Den) that it would cost around Â£1.5m to move Swally and his coaching cronies on.  Money that doesn't exist (until they have to buy players in the next transfer window)

I am almost past laughing at the shambles - it is shocking what has happened to that club and I know many good and decent (and miserable) Rangers Supporters (my brother and his two kids just to name three).


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## Francisceo (Oct 1, 2014)

really?


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 3, 2014)

Mike Ashley buys more shares taking his stake in Rangers up to 9%.
Clever man with a long term plan.
Not long before we see Rangers playing in Dunlop football strips I guess.

Murraymints cashes in his chips and sells all his businesses.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2014)

Interesting stuff, the alleged corruption seems to be with nearly all the groups involved in the insolvency case.




http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/former-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-4628861


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## CMAC (Nov 15, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The funniest bit is that they cant afford to sack their Â£850,000.00 a year manager.
		
Click to expand...

seriously? Please tell me this third div team doesnt pay Â£850kPA for a manager from a question of sport?


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## StuartD (Nov 16, 2014)

CMAC said:



			seriously? Please tell me this third div team doesnt pay Â£850kPA for a manager from a question of sport?
		
Click to expand...

They had no option but to pay it. Rightly or wrongly that was his salary when in the SPL. Under TUPE law he transferred to the Newco so his salary had to be honoured.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 16, 2014)

Another 2 points added to the Jambo's lead yesterday


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## wrighty1874 (Nov 16, 2014)

Like ala Facebook.



Doon frae Troon said:



			Another 2 points added to the Jambo's lead yesterday

Click to expand...


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 17, 2014)

Wow 
White has agreed to pay Â£24m to the Rangers liquidators.


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## Val (Nov 17, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Wow 
White has agreed to pay Â£24m to the Rangers liquidators.
		
Click to expand...

Not strictly true, it's the lawyers who acted for him who have settled out of court, not him.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30084838


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## Foxholer (Nov 27, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30222858


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 4, 2014)

Bookies have Stuart McCall as 2/1 for McCoist's job after last nights result.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...-reports/bookies-offer-odds-21-stuart-4744110


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## Slab (Dec 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Bookies have Stuart McCall as 2/1 for McCoist's job after last nights result.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...-reports/bookies-offer-odds-21-stuart-4744110

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I think that would actually be a good move, we need to mobilize fans to keep McCoist in place, maybe we could start a fund raiser!


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 4, 2014)

What a great idea.
How much do you think we would need?
Do you think The Rangers board would see through it?


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## turkish (Dec 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What a great idea.
How much do you think we would need?
Do you think The Rangers board would see through it?
		
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LOL I sense a little sarcasm


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## CMAC (Dec 4, 2014)

he's vowing to stay on http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30323878 


at Â£850,000 a year he's making a big sacrifice and can only be commended for not deserting a sinking ship....


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## Slab (Dec 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			What a great idea.
How much do you think we would need?
Do you think The Rangers board would see through it?
		
Click to expand...

Well given that we'd only give rangers the going rate of 7.5p in the pound of any funds raised, then I estimate we need to raise a total of... i have no idea really... how much was the titanic worth after that sunk!


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 4, 2014)

To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in on-field results at the moment and especially in the cups; I'm obviously hoping they can manage promotion somehow! That said, I'd prefer some financial stability and another year or two in the championship.

Oh and didn't Ally take a 50% pay cut? Pretty sure he did.


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## Adi2Dassler (Dec 4, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in on-field results at the moment and especially in the cups; I'm obviously hoping they can manage promotion somehow! That said, I'd prefer some financial stability and another year or two in the championship.

Oh and didn't Ally take a 50% pay cut? Pretty sure he did.
		
Click to expand...

He did.He's now ruining The Rangers for the bargain price of Â£400,000 pa


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## turkish (Dec 4, 2014)

I agree Fairway dodger don't really care too much about results with everything else going on- just wish the wigs would GTFO but they appear to have us by the short and curlies- too many fat cats with their nose in the trough that's ruining us


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## c1973 (Dec 4, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			To be honest, I'm not particularly interested in on-field results at the moment and especially in the cups; I'm obviously hoping they can manage promotion somehow! That said, I'd prefer some financial stability and another year or two in the championship.

Oh and didn't Ally take a 50% pay cut? Pretty sure he did.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed he did, quite some time ago.......but why let the truth get in the way of the headline. 

Shocking result last night (especially since we've beaten 3 top tier teams this season in cups). We won't be the first team to go out a cup to a lesser team though....nor will we be the last.  Some of those players last night need to have a long hard look at themselves though.

Not many clubs fans would be reading that their managers jacket was on a shoogly peg if they were in the semi-finals of the league cup, still in the national cup competition and lying second in their league though. 



What do the resident Jambos make of the result and 'alleged' sectarian singing and fans behaviour at their recent cup game btw?  
Or, is it indeed, #allabouttherangers


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## Val (Dec 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Indeed he did, quite some time ago.......but why let the truth get in the way of the headline. 

Shocking result last night (especially since we've beaten 3 top tier teams this season in cups). We won't be the first team to go out a cup to a lesser team though....nor will we be the last.  Some of those players last night need to have a long hard look at themselves though.

Not many clubs fans would be reading that their managers jacket was on a shoogly peg if they were in the semi-finals of the league cup, still in the national cup competition and lying second in their league though. 



What do the resident Jambos make of the result and 'alleged' sectarian singing and fans behaviour at their recent cup game btw?  
Or, is it indeed, #allabouttherangers 

Click to expand...

Can I ask this OT question? Are Rangers your first or second team? I'm led to think you maybe a warriors man.


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## c1973 (Dec 4, 2014)

Val said:



			Can I ask this OT question? Are Rangers your first or second team? I'm led to think you maybe a warriors man.
		
Click to expand...

Warriors? 

You've got me stumped I must admit.

Warbury?


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## Val (Dec 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Warriors? 

You've got me stumped I must admit.

Warbury?
		
Click to expand...

No Glasgow, rugby.....Glasgow Warriors. If not i've stuck 2+2 and got 6.

Not that it matters anyway just curious.


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## c1973 (Dec 4, 2014)

Val said:



			No Glasgow, rugby.....Glasgow Warriors. If not i've stuck 2+2 and got 6.

Not that it matters anyway just curious.
		
Click to expand...

Nah. Rangers is my team, always was and will be  (not a supporter nowadays though, just a fan.....don't go to games so don't class myself as a supporter now).

Curious to know why you would think that, not that fussed about Rugby (national team aside) but I do love the 6 nations and turn into an expert for the duration. 

If I was I'd be a Union man though.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			What do the resident Jambos make of the result and 'alleged' sectarian singing and fans behaviour at their recent cup game btw?  
Or, is it indeed, #allabouttherangers 

Click to expand...

Not much to be honest, I am disappointed that the knuckledraggers are not an extinct species yet. We live in hope.

Looking at Anne Budges statement, the amount of damage/vandalism to Tynecastle and the arrests count it is quite surprising [but not surprising if you know what I mean] that Hearts are being painted as the villians in this case.

The result, no surprise. Still a fair gap between Hearts and the top of the SPL. They are at least going in the right direction and the fans are right behind the team and manager. Dodgy penalty awarded  to an old firm side......same as ,same as.


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## Sharktooth (Dec 5, 2014)

Fat Sally could shortly find himself out on his hoop


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## Foxholer (Dec 5, 2014)

Sharktooth said:



			Fat Sally could shortly find himself out on his hoop
		
Click to expand...

I doubt they can afford to pay him off!


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 5, 2014)

Story up hear is Easdale's want him out but Ashley wants him to stay.
Nobody can raise the Â£1.5m required to dismiss the coaching staff. Good news.

That Easdale's wig is something else, wrong colour and 1970's style.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-boss-ally-mccoist-facing-4751192


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 5, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Story up hear is Easdale's want him out but Ashley wants him to stay.
Nobody can raise the Â£1.5m required to dismiss the coaching staff. Good news.

That Easdale's wig is something else, wrong colour and 1970's style.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-boss-ally-mccoist-facing-4751192

Click to expand...

Easdales out!
Ashley out!

Ally can stay.


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## c1973 (Dec 5, 2014)

Story up here is there was no story, the story in the storytelling rags that there was a story about a meeting was in actual fact a story. The story is there was actually NO meeting......whit a story!!!


I've just realised that story is a ridiculous sounding word! 



The crap Ally has had to deal with over the last few years, no Rangers manager has ever had to deal with, yet deal with it he has. 
With scarce a complaint (sure, he's on decent money which helps, I don't dispute that) during his tenure he has had to deal with that utter infraction Whyte, Green and now the Easdales, not to mention the moronic fans groups and those who wanted to buy the club but never stumped up when most thought they should have (jury's out on Ashley). 

He loses a wee bit of ground in the league and then loses a semi (we should be winning tbf) and he's on his way out?? 

Yes, at times his decisions are baffling, yep we should beat part timers (but playing us is a cup final for a lot of these guys), these guys put bigger teams than themselves out cups now and again btw, but we've whupped three top tier teams this season! 

Perhaps we should be doing better but we don't have a Gazza, Laudrup, Van Bronckhorst, Souness, Cooper, Baxter, Henderson, Millar (no Kenny btw), Brand or even a McCoist to put on the park at the moment........maybe we should bear that in mind fellow Bears,eh? 


Shame on those calling for his head. I'll be disappointed if we don't go straight up this year, but we all knew this league was going to be tricky (and that's before the Jambos and Hivs joined us), then we could say 'you know what Ally, you tried, it never happened, thank you, go with your head held high'. 

He's Rangers through and through and YES, that's exactly what we need right now.....there's enough parasites as it is!

Maybe he won't be another Struth, Symon or  Smith, BUT, if ever a man has earned and deserved his crack at getting Rangers into the top tier it's Alistair Murdoch McCoist MBE!

Though the straits be broad or narrow............


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 5, 2014)

Best bit was.... Millar [no Kenny btw]

Actually saw him play a few times, {yes I'm that old} and he was good. 
Tends to be forgotten amongst the former greats.

Misser would not be good enough to look at his boots far less lace them.


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## CMAC (Dec 7, 2014)

the fans treated McCoist as a legend- held in high esteem- roll on a few years and they are baying for his head- he hasnt changed and his passion is the same as far as I can see. Shocking way to treat a man who is Rangers through and through.

My Grandfather will be turning in his grave with whats happened to his beloved club in the last 10 years.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 12, 2014)

McCoist has tendered his resignation


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## Foxholer (Dec 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			McCoist has tendered his resignation
		
Click to expand...

Well, he has apparently 'offered' to resign. Somewhat different imo.!


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## williamalex1 (Dec 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			McCoist has tendered his resignation
		
Click to expand...

 I'm glad he went before being sacked  and I hope he takes his assistants with him. 
Now to get rid of the board [ robbing Bs]


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 12, 2014)

We can only imagine how much crap he has had to put up with behind the scenes and how much harder it has made his job. 

Sorry to see him go but it's probably for the best. Without him there is no veneer of credibility for the charlatans running the club. 

Sack the board.


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## davidy233 (Dec 12, 2014)

He's not gone yet - they have to come to an agreement for a pay off - he's due a years salary and they haven't got the cash


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## williamalex1 (Dec 12, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			He's not gone yet - they have to come to an agreement for a pay off - he's due a years salary and they haven't got the cash
		
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Will he still get a pay off if he acctuALLY resigned


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## Lanark_Golfer (Dec 12, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Will he still get a pay off if he acctuALLY resigned 

Click to expand...

It's one years notice on both sides, apparently it's Â£1.4 million for Ally and his assistants, I would assume there will be negotiating to reduce amount for an early departure


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## Sharktooth (Dec 12, 2014)

I'll put my cards on the table and say as I'm Celtic born and bred, I do actually feel sorry for Sally. When he was a player for Rangers he did seem to get on very well with his competitors, unlike some of his Neanderthal team mates. He's had to put up with some severe gish as a manager of that club. Good luck to him in the future.


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## Skypilot (Dec 12, 2014)

I thought when he was appointed it was more to do with him a "Nice but Dim" patsy, unlikely to have an inkling of what the hell was going on behind the scenes.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 12, 2014)

I think he was appointed by a parcel 'o rogues who wanted to use his popularity with the fans to try to make them more popular.

Looks like he is staying so good news for Hearts fans.


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## ger147 (Dec 12, 2014)

He's not resigned, he has handed in his notice which is 12 months. If the board want him to go sooner, a deal will have to be done for a pay off.


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## williamalex1 (Dec 12, 2014)

ger147 said:



			He's not resigned, he has handed in his notice which is 12 months. If the board want him to go sooner, a deal will have to be done for a pay off.
		
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Post 139  said he had tendered his resignation, so it must be true.  ha ha. Sorry Phil.


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## Foxholer (Dec 15, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30486272

Slightly peculiar! But one way for SFA to actually get to speak with them!


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## CMAC (Dec 15, 2014)

Foxholer said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30486272

Slightly peculiar! But one way for SFA to actually get to speak with them! 

Click to expand...

8.29% is still less than 10% where I come from- maybe (as is usual with Rangers) theres more to this than meets the eye.


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## phil78 (Dec 15, 2014)

I'my sure the agreement with Ashley was less than 10% shareholding and no undue influence in the board room.
Having Llambia appointed as a director pretty much blows the 2nd point out of the water.

That said I'm sure the SFA will prove as toothless as always.


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## Foxholer (Dec 21, 2014)

phil78 said:



			I'my sure the agreement with Ashley was less than 10% shareholding and no undue influence in the board room.
Having Llambia appointed as a director pretty much blows the 2nd point out of the water.

That said I'm sure the SFA will prove as toothless as always.
		
Click to expand...

!

AMcC has gone! Now on Gardening Leave!


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 21, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			!

AMcC has gone! Now on Gardening Leave!
		
Click to expand...

Saw that earlier. Seems a funny situation but nothing going on there at the moment seems surprising.


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## c1973 (Dec 21, 2014)

It's the board that needs to go.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 21, 2014)

c1973 said:



			It's the board that needs to go.
		
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That won't happen. Will it??????????????????????


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## Liverbirdie (Dec 21, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			!

AMcC has gone! Now on Gardening Leave!
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he can come and sort our pitch out.......


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## Slab (Dec 22, 2014)

I get the feeling today's AGM will pass without incident...


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## c1973 (Dec 22, 2014)

Slab said:



			I get the feeling today's AGM will pass without incident...
		
Click to expand...


Would not surprise me if someone attempts to attack the board members, it really wouldn't.


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## CMAC (Dec 22, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Would not surprise me if someone attempts to attack the board members, it really wouldn't.
		
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wouldnt that just be the most stupid thing a 'fan' could do...............over a game of football :WeNeedAShakesHeadSmiley:


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## c1973 (Dec 22, 2014)

CMAC said:



			wouldnt that just be the most stupid thing a 'fan' could do...............over a game of football :WeNeedAShakesHeadSmiley:
		
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Absolutely.


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## Foxholer (Jan 6, 2015)

Must be coming very close to crunch time now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30661103

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30678270

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30691722

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30692822

None of those who have loaned the company money will want to see it disappear, though who knows what security was offered.


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## ger147 (Jan 6, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Must be coming very close to crunch time now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30661103

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30678270

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30691722

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30692822

None of those who have loaned the company money will want to see it disappear, though who knows what security was offered.
		
Click to expand...

The security offered in exchange for the various loans has been published and widely reported.

The security offered for the most recent loan is reported in one of the links you posted above.


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## Slab (Jan 20, 2015)

I've no idea what will come out next in this saga...

2nd manager to resign in just a month  & almost daily the financial/boardroom struggles take another twist


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 20, 2015)

The funniest comment I heard recently was during the snow abandoned Hearts game at Ibrox.
The club could not find an orange ball [funny in itself] but then the TV guy suggested that they should have popped down to the nearest Sports Direct shop.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 5, 2015)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31145792

How much lower can this once great club go? Very sad for the supporters.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 5, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31145792

How much lower can this once great club go? Very sad for the supporters.
		
Click to expand...

Mike Ashley taking the mickey, a board of crooks in his pocket and the SFA doing exactly that about it. Fans are already outraged but this latest news is almost unbelievable.


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## ger147 (Feb 5, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Mike Ashley taking the mickey, a board of crooks in his pocket and the SFA doing exactly that about it. Fans are already outraged but this latest news is almost unbelievable.
		
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The 21 days to call an EGM runs out tomorrow, will be interesting to see what transpires...


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 5, 2015)

Ashley offloading his Newcastle duds on the Sevco wage bill.
Brilliant bit of business.

Mind the Gap.


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## JCW (Feb 5, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-king-mike-ashley-frame-4132352.

Two weeks to survive unless Ashley comes to the rescue
		
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AFC Bournemouth were going down this road many yers ago but look where they are today , there is still hope


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## NWJocko (Feb 5, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Mike Ashley taking the mickey, a board of crooks in his pocket and the SFA doing exactly that about it. Fans are already outraged but this latest news is almost unbelievable.
		
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I was wondering how it could get any worse for Rangers.......

If Ashley wants to get shot of Newcastle and buy Rangers he's not exactly endearing himself to the fans with this sort of nonsense is he!?

Unless he is just there to get the money from the shirt sales, but I believe the fans are stopping buying them?

Just gets worse and worse for Rangers.


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## richy (Feb 5, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			I was wondering how it could get any worse for Rangers.......

If Ashley wants to get shot of Newcastle and buy Rangers he's not exactly endearing himself to the fans with this sort of nonsense is he!?

Unless he is just there to get the money from the shirt sales, but I believe the fans are stopping buying them?

Just gets worse and worse for Rangers.
		
Click to expand...

Ashley couldn't care less about the fans of any club.


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## NWJocko (Feb 5, 2015)

richy said:



			Ashley couldn't care less about the fans of any club.
		
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Fair point.....

I guess he sees Rangers as a (long term) cash cow, buying them cheap and soon enough they'll be back near the top of the spl, in Europe etc?

Would he turn a profit on Newcastle if he sold them?


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## JCW (Feb 5, 2015)

richy said:



			Ashley couldn't care less about the fans of any club.
		
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How do you know , I heard he does care and cares a lot


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 5, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Fair point.....

I guess he sees Rangers as a (long term) cash cow, buying them cheap and soon enough they'll be back near the top of the spl, in Europe etc?

Would he turn a profit on Newcastle if he sold them?
		
Click to expand...

No idea what his end game is but he's not making any friends. Dave King is risking what credibility he has by stating that he'd be prepared to work with Ashley.

Right now, Rangers fans are boycotting the games and, surely, none of us are going within a country mile of a Sports Direct shop.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 5, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Ashley offloading his Newcastle duds on the Sevco wage bill.
Brilliant bit of business.

Mind the Gap.
		
Click to expand...

The temporary manager stated , he's been told he must select the 5 on  loan players in every game if they're  fit  .

TBPH,  they really can't be any worse than the present  lot .

 Sad times for true football fans [ not the hooligans and bigots that cling on]


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## NWJocko (Feb 5, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			No idea what his end game is but he's not making any friends. Dave King is risking what credibility he has by stating that he'd be prepared to work with Ashley.

Right now, Rangers fans are boycotting the games and, surely, none of us are going within a country mile of a Sports Direct shop.
		
Click to expand...

Sort of what I mean....

Rangers are absolutely desperate for cash, any cash they can get.  Yet every decision made by anyone in power there seems to alienate the fans even more resulting in low crowds and not selling any merchandise!?

I haven't followed it that closely but it just seems a crazy situation, you think they'd be doing everything possible to get tickets sold and fans back to support the club in terms of generating as much cash over the counter as they can.......


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 5, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Sort of what I mean....

Rangers are absolutely desperate for cash, any cash they can get.  Yet every decision made by anyone in power there seems to alienate the fans even more resulting in low crowds and not selling any merchandise!?

I haven't followed it that closely but it just seems a crazy situation, you think they'd be doing everything possible to get tickets sold and fans back to support the club in terms of generating as much cash over the counter as they can.......
		
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Yeah. I'm in utter despair about the situation. I'm not even convinced that Dave King is the right guy but what we do know is the current board and Ashley are the wrong guys. The fans will not be back until there is complete regime change with a board who we can believe have Rangers' interests at heart.

The merchandise revenue stream is closed anyway. Even if the fans were buying, less than 10% goes to the club, Ashley trousers the rest.


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## CMAC (Feb 5, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			The temporary manager stated , he's been told he must select the 5 on  loan players in every game if they're  fit  .

TBPH,  they really can't be any worse than the present  lot .

 Sad times for true football fans [ not the hooligans and bigots that cling on]
		
Click to expand...

arent 5 players from the (mid) EPL much better players than the current Rangers team? seems a no-brainer to play them


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## williamalex1 (Feb 5, 2015)

CMAC said:



			arent 5 players from the (mid) EPL much better players than the current Rangers team? seems a no-brainer to play them
		
Click to expand...

 Surely  .


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## Slab (Feb 6, 2015)

And what impact will the arrival of these 5 lads have on the on/off field harmony/dressing room/team spirit etc (especially given the coaches comment that he's being told to play them)

Will they be welcomed into the team by the existing players or will it create tensions and splits?


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## c1973 (Feb 6, 2015)

If they got us through the play offs it would be seen as a stroke of genius......doubt we will though.

I'm wondering if we got these guys on the understanding that Newcastle would continue to pay their wages, provided we actually play them. Hence the gaffer being told we've got such n such a player but you have to play them. 

Personally ( if he's been told straight out 'you must play these 5 every week ) I think he should have walked there and then. Surely his proffesional pride would have led him to that decision? 

Shambolic doesn't really cover it at the moment. How the Easdales (Rangers fans, allegedly) can look themselves in the eye is beyond me. Potential investors have been snubbed and/or treated diabolically. The sooner the EGM is called and these charlatans are out on their arse, the better. 

We'll be back at the top soon enough, getting there was never going to be easy nor was it going to be a smooth ride, but get there we will. 


Though the straits be broad or narrow....


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			Would he turn a profit on Newcastle if he sold them?
		
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No. He paid too much for Newcastle, didn't do his homework and found they were massively in debt. He has cleared that debt with an interest free loan. He wants to get back what he paid plus the loan money. All seems fair enough. Unfortunately that means the sale price for Newcastle is too high and no one will pay it, it was on the market for a few years with no takers. 

Perhaps he is relying on the new tv deal, due any day, increasing the value of clubs to such a degree that someone will finally pay the amount he is asking. From what is reported he is not looking to make a profit, just recover his outlay.

Newcastle have a virtually guaranteed 50,000 ticket sales per home game, high percentage of season tickets, huge shirt sale numbers, modern stadium with no upgrading needed and so are a good buy. At the right price! A bit like Rangers really.


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## Val (Feb 6, 2015)

c1973 said:



			If they got us through the play offs it would be seen as a stroke of genius......doubt we will though.

I'm wondering if we got these guys on the understanding that Newcastle would continue to pay their wages, provided we actually play them. Hence the gaffer being told we've got such n such a player but you have to play them. 

Personally ( if he's been told straight out 'you must play these 5 every week ) I think he should have walked there and then. Surely his proffesional pride would have led him to that decision? 

Shambolic doesn't really cover it at the moment. How the Easdales (Rangers fans, allegedly) can look themselves in the eye is beyond me. Potential investors have been snubbed and/or treated diabolically. The sooner the EGM is called and these charlatans are out on their arse, the better. 

We'll be back at the top soon enough, *getting there was never going to be easy nor was it going to be a smooth ride*, but get there we will. 


Though the straits be broad or narrow....
		
Click to expand...

I bet you never expected the infighting you have had though, the football side should have taken care of itself but the financial side and struggle for control is just beyond belief.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 6, 2015)

Val said:



			I bet you never expected the infighting you have had though, the football side should have taken care of itself but the financial side and struggle for control is just beyond belief.
		
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Problem was the guys who got control were only ever in it for themselves and bled the club dry. Combine that with a flawed approach with the playing squad in the lower divisions and the initial investment didn't last long. 

Hearts were probably in an even bigger mess than us when they went bust but the right people came in and have done a good job there. I'm pretty envious of that.


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## c1973 (Feb 6, 2015)

Val said:



			I bet you never expected the infighting you have had though, the football side should have taken care of itself but the financial side and struggle for control is just beyond belief.
		
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I actually did Val (well after Charlie Green anyway), perhaps not to the extent we've seen though......in fact nowhere near the extent it is if I'm being honest. Remember we saw it with Celtic in the late 80s early 90s, but nowhere near as bad as us to be fair, so it's not a surprise to see a power struggle for a massive club. It's shameful though it really is. 

I'd actually wipe all their names from the official history of the club tbh.

I'm still of the opinion that the jury is out on Ashley (with me anyway), I can see King working with him and have said as much for a wee while now. If he could get shot of Newcastle then he may not be a bad thing, he runs a tight ship and not a Shi.... ye know the rest. 

He wants Sports Direct known in Europe. There is more chance of that happening in the medium/long term through Rangers than Newcastle (giving all due respect to Newcastle here). That's why I think he may be here for the long haul. I'm not happy with the deal on the retail side, but we have been doing that since Murray was there, think people forget that at times.


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## Val (Feb 6, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I actually did Val (well after Charlie Green anyway), perhaps not to the extent we've seen though......in fact nowhere near the extent it is if I'm being honest. Remember we saw it with Celtic in the late 80s early 90s, but nowhere near as bad as us to be fair, so it's not a surprise to see a power struggle for a massive club. It's shameful though it really is. 

*I'd actually wipe all their names from the official history of the club tbh.*

I'm still of the opinion that the jury is out on Ashley (with me anyway), I can see King working with him and have said as much for a wee while now. If he could get shot of Newcastle then he may not be a bad thing, he runs a tight ship and not a Shi.... ye know the rest. 

He wants Sports Direct known in Europe. There is more chance of that happening in the medium/long term through Rangers than Newcastle (giving all due respect to Newcastle here). That's why I think he may be here for the long haul. I'm not happy with the deal on the retail side, but we have been doing that since Murray was there, think people forget that at times.
		
Click to expand...

That wouldn't leave anyone on it


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 6, 2015)

Hearts were forced to play youngsters, a couple of years ago the average age of the teams sent out was 23.
Those youngsters took their chance and some have turned out decent players, some were sold on for give away prices.
The team really bonded in adversity.

Rangers brought in a pile of over the hill overpriced 'stars' who looked unfit and with not ready for a fight.
They also misjudged the quality of second tier Scottish football. They thought it would be a stroll. 

There is a possibility of them not being promoted from the Championship this year, that would be a disaster for them but not Scottish football.
Hearts owner Anne Budge has stated that if Hearts are promoted it would be a bonus as they had prepared for two years in the Championship.


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## c1973 (Feb 6, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Problem was the guys who got control were only ever in it for themselves and bled the club dry. Combine that with a flawed approach with the playing squad in the lower divisions and the initial investment didn't last long. 

*Hearts were probably in an even bigger mess than us when they went bust but the right people came in and have done a good job there. I'm pretty envious of that.*

Click to expand...

Thing is, they got a lot of their debt wiped and had a bank that worked with them ( did Salmond have influence?). 
We had a Government agency trying to use us an example and test case so they could go after others off the back of the expected (not achieved) result. If HMRC had accepted the proposal put forward (like they did with others) then we would still be in the top tier and they would have got a cash settlement, instead of losing the tribunal. Everyone would have won.  

Different circumstances. 

That's not excusing Green etc btw. 


Anyway, that debates been done to death.


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## c1973 (Feb 6, 2015)

Val said:



			That wouldn't leave anyone on it  

Click to expand...

Well,Allys name can stay at least!


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 8, 2015)

Oh dear, the Raith Street Dancers are at it again.
Rangers bumped ooot the cup.

No real surprise to many except the BBC commentary team who seem to have it down as a shock result.

I am considering to think about starting to feel sorry for them now.


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## c1973 (Feb 8, 2015)

Could set your watch to it, you really could.

:rofl:


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## ger147 (Feb 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh dear, the Raith Street Dancers are at it again.
Rangers bumped ooot the cup.

No real surprise to many except the BBC commentary team who seem to have it down as a shock result.

I am considering to think about starting to feel sorry for them now.
		
Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure the majority of their fans couldn't care less about today's result. All of my Rangers supporting friends just want the EGM done and hopefully the current board removed so they can perhaps have the opportunity to get behind an owner and a board who will run their club properly after all the crap of recent years.


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## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Problem was the guys who got control were only ever in it for themselves and bled the club dry. Combine that with a flawed approach with the playing squad in the lower divisions and the initial investment didn't last long. 

Hearts were probably in an even bigger mess than us when they went bust but the right people came in and have done a good job there. I'm pretty envious of that.
		
Click to expand...

Seems pretty much the case to me.

However Rangers's approach and their attitude to the rest of SPL seem to have meant they got treated differently to Hearts, who found a White Knight (Maiden) and have been turned around rather well!

I'm pretty sure that after this very public feuding, Rangers will survive, be promoted next year and become a serious influence again. Just exactly who will be running it is still a bit of a guess, but I'm moving more towards King being OK-ed by SPL and tend to agree with C1973's post on Ashley's motives too!


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 8, 2015)

ger147 said:



			I'm fairly sure the majority of their fans couldn't care less about today's result. All of my Rangers supporting friends just want the EGM done and hopefully the current board removed so they can perhaps have the opportunity to get behind an owner and a board who will run their club properly after all the crap of recent years.
		
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How on earth can they get away with holding the EGM in London.
After the tent episode you would think that they would have learned something.
They seem to be trying to totally isolate the entire Rangers support.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			How on earth can they get away with holding the EGM in London.
After the tent episode you would think that they would have learned something.
They seem to be trying to totally isolate the entire Rangers support.
		
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It's not only holding it in London.... It was originally going to be 6th March (a Friday) but got moved to the 4th when someone realised that would make it even harder for shareholders to travel from Glasgow since they would need two days off work if combining it with an overnight stay.

The board have complete disdain for the supporters, sooner they are removed the better!


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## Val (Feb 8, 2015)

I said it before about Ashley, he wants the sport direct brand on the big European stage, he'll have more chance withRangers but he has a bigger struggle than that to overcome at Rangers first.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2015)

Val said:



			I said it before about Ashley, he wants the sport direct brand on the big European stage, he'll have more chance withRangers but he has a bigger struggle than that to overcome at Rangers first.
		
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No way Rangers will succeed with Ashley in charge. 11,000 turned up for the game today, fans aren't going back until the board are ousted....


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## Val (Feb 8, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			No way Rangers will succeed with Ashley in charge. 11,000 turned up for the game today, fans aren't going back until the board are ousted....
		
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Sometimes you need to careful what you wish for, you might just get it and regret it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

What sort of owner do Rangers fans want ?

Ashley appears to want to put money in the club and to clear the debt - then if he does want to have a foot print in European Football comps then he will have to invest in the team ? 

Is there something missing ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 8, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			No way Rangers will succeed with Ashley in charge. 11,000 turned up for the game today, fans aren't going back until the board are ousted....
		
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I can understand the fans anger and why they won't watch until the board goes, but will that really happen anytime soon. The EGM in London shows how cunning they are and what lengths they'll go to and I think more to come. Ashley may be a financial saviour for now but beware Geordies bearing gifts


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## ger147 (Feb 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What sort of owner do Rangers fans want ?

Ashley appears to want to put money in the club and to clear the debt - then if he does want to have a foot print in European Football comps then he will have to invest in the team ? 

Is there something missing ?
		
Click to expand...

Rangers have no debt except to Mike Ashley, who in the meantime is hoovering up all of Rangers' income streams for his own companies in exchange for the debt Rangers is currently racking up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

ger147 said:



			Rangers have no debt except to Mike Ashley, who in the meantime is hoovering up all of Rangers' income streams for his own companies in exchange for the debt Rangers is currently racking up.
		
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So why were you close to go out of business a while back ? Was that a debt that was owed ?


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## c1973 (Feb 8, 2015)

An alleged lack of funds for operational costs. Not debt.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			An alleged lack of funds for operational costs. Not debt.
		
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Ah right - so who is paying the operational costs right now ?


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## ger147 (Feb 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So why were you close to go out of business a while back ? Was that a debt that was owed ?
		
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Me? I'm perfectly fine thanks.

Rangers' issue is an operating cost issue i.e. they spend approximately Â£1m per month more than they earn due to Charles Green's excesses when that numpty was in charge. That gap continues to get worse as the fans boycott to force a change so they need regular cash injections to continue trading.

Enter Mike Ashley with his pay day loans while he takes security over everything, 75% of the retail company, Ibrox stuffed full of advertising hoardings that are not paid for, control of the board etc. etc.


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## c1973 (Feb 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ah right - so who is paying the operational costs right now ?
		
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Rangers. 









Cash from Ashley, that was allegedly available from other sources with less (alleged) caveats attached is paying the way at the moment. But taking the other offers would have meant certain board members losing their blazer and tie.......and that there was a bit of a stumbling block for those concerned. 

It's just a bog standard messy power struggle for a small holding company that own a massive club being played out in the media.


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## Val (Feb 8, 2015)

If Rangers hadn't accepted Ashley's money the chances are they'd have been gone again.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2015)

Val said:



			If Rangers hadn't accepted Ashley's money the chances are they'd have been gone again.
		
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Simply not true, there were other, better options on the table.


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## ger147 (Feb 8, 2015)

Val said:



			If Rangers hadn't accepted Ashley's money the chances are they'd have been gone again.
		
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There were several other offers of short term assistance so I'm sure they would not have gone to the wall without Ashley.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 8, 2015)

What other offers were available ?


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## c1973 (Feb 8, 2015)

ger147 said:



			There were several other offers of short term assistance so I'm sure they would not have gone to the wall without Ashley.
		
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There was also an offer to buy the club outright as well.

Still, (as I've said previously on this subject) let's not let facts get in the way of the story.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What other offers were available ?
		
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The so-called "three bears" offered the funds on a more preferential basis but refused to guarantee places on the board for summers and easdale so it was rejected in favour of Ashley. Ashley took control of Rangers retail, trademarks, Murray park all for a Â£2m loan.


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## Val (Feb 8, 2015)

So we're the other offers not accepted due to current directors worries of them losing their seats? Self preservation before the good of the club?

Mental


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

Val said:



			So we're the other offers not accepted due to current directors worries of them losing their seats? Self preservation before the good of the club?

Mental
		
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On the surface of it, yes, that's what happened. One or two wanted to keep the club tie and blazer at any cost. Well, that's how the fans viewed it at least. Hence the rather rapid downturn in attendance at Ibrox. 

I think if Ashley had perhaps come out and spoken to the fans, or at least made a statement of sorts with regard to his intentions it may have allayed any fears the support had/have. 

Of course, he's under no obligation to do so and may have felt it could compromise the 'dual ownership/influence' issue. An issue that, strangely, never seemed to be an issue for the old Hearts / FBK Kaunas owner.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2015)

Don't think you will ever get Ashley come out and say anything to the media

Who are the three bears and who offered to buy the club outright ? Was that the Basketball club owner


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don't think you will ever get Ashley come out and say anything to the media

Who are the three bears and who offered to buy the club outright ? Was that the Basketball club owner
		
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Dave King and his consortium.

Yep, the basketball club owner.

Apparently, there is another person interested in buying the club, some Indian fella involved in cricket (IPL?, Not sure). Not got round to looking into that one yet though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 9, 2015)

So why was the basketball turned down ?

Has Dave King been involved in the club long ?


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Dave King and his consortium.

Yep, the basketball club owner.

Apparently, there is another person interested in buying the club, some Indian fella involved in cricket (IPL?, Not sure). Not got round to looking into that one yet though.
		
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The Indian guy is bigger crook than we've already got.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 9, 2015)

Ashley doesn't talk, period. Ask Newcastle fans. Occasionally Llambias would say something as his mouthpiece but even that was very limited. (clearly he is now at Rangers which is why I mentioned him but he did the same role at Newcastle for many years) Newcastle have currently banned half the written press from St James Park, including the local papers, so they are saying even less at the moment. Expect more of the same up in Glasgow. He is there to make money, not for the benefit of the club.


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

No one knows the real reason (undervalued the assets was the given reason), but most fans assume it's because certain individuals would have been off the board and out on their erse. 

King invested (quite significantly) in the club when Murray ran the show, was a director for years as well. 
The sticking point with him was that he was on the board when that infraction infraction craig whyte was the custodian of the club. A lot of folk don't like the fact he sat and done nothing (their view, I couldn't possibly know the ins and outs). He argues that members of the board tried to block whyte taking over (which I believe, as guys like John Greig have said the same) and also block numerous things he was up to.......but whyte ran the show...outright....so they were powerless to act. 

That's an abridged version of events, but it gives you a flavour of it I suppose.

The others involved in the consortium have been shareholders at various levels for a good number of years now.

Edit: in response to LP.


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			The Indian guy is bigger crook than we've already got.
		
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Is he? It wouldn't surprise me tbf.  As I said, I've not actually had a proper look at that story.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 9, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Don't think you will ever get Ashley come out and say anything to the media

Who are the three bears and who offered to buy the club outright ? Was that the Basketball club owner
		
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The three bears are wealthy rangers fans, guys who would seem to have the club at heart as opposed to something they can make money out of a la Whyte/Green/Ashley


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ashley doesn't talk, period. Ask Newcastle fans. Occasionally Llambias would say something as his mouthpiece but even that was very limited. (clearly he is now at Rangers which is why I mentioned him but he did the same role at Newcastle for many years) Newcastle have currently banned half the written press from St James Park, including the local papers, so they are saying even less at the moment. Expect more of the same up in Glasgow. He is there to make money, not for the benefit of the club.
		
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I don't doubt he's here to make money, pretty sure Sports Direct have been involved since Murray was here anyway.  But, for him to make money up here, we need to be successful on a European stage. 

At the moment, I'll settle for that.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I don't doubt he's here to make money, pretty sure Sports Direct have been involved since Murray was here anyway.  But, for him to make money up here, we need to be successful on a European stage. 

At the moment, I'll settle for that. 

Click to expand...

I'd rather have our club back and controlled by people who care about it even that means it takes years to get to the point the Europe becomes a possibility.

Have a look at how Rangers retail works nowadays if you think Ashley is any sort of benefactor, he is bleeding the club dry.


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'd rather have our club back and controlled by people who care about it even that means it takes years to get to the point the Europe becomes a possibility.

Have a look at how Rangers retail works nowadays if you think Ashley is any sort of benefactor, he is bleeding the club dry.
		
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I don't disagree FD.  

I'm just at the stage, I want my club off the front page I guess. 

And I'm not sure there's many who can afford to run a club the size of ours as a benefactor. I think it's going to be a case of making money in some way, whether that be bringing through and selling on, or through retail unfortunately. 

I'd love the fans to own the club outright, but I don't see that working out tbh. And who would be on the board? Reps from the Union Bears, Sons of Struth, Union of Fans, Rangers Supporters Trust, Rangers Supporters Assembley etc?????

These folk are more fractured than the bloody club!


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## Val (Feb 9, 2015)

Let me ask this, what would the 3 bears bring that you don't already have in the Easdales etc?

I should add, who are the current 3 bears consortium? I initially thought this was the mob fronted by Paul Murray.


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## BrizoH71 (Feb 9, 2015)

Val said:



			Let me ask this, what would the 3 bears bring that you don't already have in the Easdales etc?

I should add, who are the current 3 bears consortium? I initially thought this was the mob fronted by Paul Murray.
		
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The consortium is made up of Douglas Park (owner of Parks Motor Group), George Letham (who had previously given Rangers 1m) and Hong Kong-based George Taylor, who is some Morgan Stanley bigwig.

None of these guys will seriously put their hands in their pockets. They'll look to get into the boardroom and then turn to the fans again to pump more money into the club. The big issue is if they do get into the boardroom, Ashley will likely call in his loans and force the club back into administration as there'll be no funds to pay him so he'll take the secured assets.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 9, 2015)

Val said:



			Let me ask this, what would the 3 bears bring that you don't already have in the Easdales etc?

I should add, who are the current 3 bears consortium? I initially thought this was the mob fronted by Paul Murray.
		
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Three bears is fronted by Donald Park, George Letham and George Taylor. Different group from the Dave King, Paul Murray lot, although hopefully prepared to work together.

The Easdales are utterly discredited by their associations with Blue Pitch/Margerita and kowtowing to Ashley and his asset-stripping.

The only way forward for Rangers is complete regime change, the fans aren't coming back while the current board is in place.


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

My take on it is that King is the frontman/spokesman for both groups (his and the 3 bears), they're on the same page so to speak but can't be seen to be acting together because of some sort of rule to do with trading/stock market/buying shares (not 100% sure, but I mind reading something on it). Maybe someone could shed light on this?

Brizo pretty much nails it to a degree for me. Although, King could certainly afford to pay the loans. It would just cut into other funds that would (imo) be earmarked for other things. 

Like it or not, Ashley will not be going anywhere imo. Better all round if King etc find a way of working with him. Perhaps let him see out the current merchandising deal, then renegotiate? Will that happen? Who knows. 

Ashley making cash of the merchandise is nothing new, JJB had the deal before SD. Our merchandising has been bought and paid for up front since around 2004. I think sometimes the fans forget that. NOT that I'm saying that's acceptable or a good thing, but it is a fact.


Edit: I'm pretty sure Ashley only has security on his loans on the Edminston and the car park. If he was asset stripping, which I don't believe is his style, would he not have insisted on Murray Park and Ibrox as security? 


Either way it's painful for all supporters of the club to watch. 



Though the straits be broad or narrow.......


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			My take on it is that King is the frontman/spokesman for both groups (his and the 3 bears), they're on the same page so to speak but can't be seen to be acting together because of some sort of rule to do with trading/stock market/buying shares (not 100% sure, but I mind reading something on it). Maybe someone could shed light on this?

Brizo pretty much nails it to a degree for me. Although, King could certainly afford to pay the loans. It would just cut into other funds that would (imo) be earmarked for other things. 

Like it or not, Ashley will not be going anywhere imo. Better all round if King etc find a way of working with him. Perhaps let him see out the current merchandising deal, then renegotiate? Will that happen? Who knows. 

Ashley making cash of the merchandise is nothing new, JJB had the deal before SD. Our merchandising has been bought and paid for up front since around 2004. I think sometimes the fans forget that. NOT that I'm saying that's acceptable or a good thing, but it is a fact.


Edit: I'm pretty sure Ashley only has security on his loans on the Edminston and the car park. If he was asset stripping, which I don't believe is his style, would he not have insisted on Murray Park and Ibrox as security? 


Either way it's painful for all supporters of the club to watch. 



Though the straits be broad or narrow.......
		
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Rangers get 75p out of every Â£10 spent on merchandise. I'm pretty sure that's not how things have been since 2004.

Ashley has security on Murray Park and attempted to get it on Ibrox.


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## ger147 (Feb 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Rangers get 75p out of every Â£10 spent on merchandise. I'm pretty sure that's not how things have been since 2004.

Ashley has security on Murray Park and attempted to get it on Ibrox.
		
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He also has security over all Rangers's trademarks, the main one being the club's badge.


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Rangers get 75p out of every Â£10 spent on merchandise. I'm pretty sure that's not how things have been since 2004.

Ashley has security on Murray Park and attempted to get it on Ibrox.
		
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The point I was making was that the deal had been made prior to the current board (who, for the avoidance of doubt, I would gladly throw headfirst down the marble staircase myself).


I knew about the attempt regards Ibrox but I admit to not knowing/forgetting about Murray Park.


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## ger147 (Feb 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The point I was making was that the deal had been made prior to the current board (who, for the avoidance of doubt, I would gladly throw headfirst down the marble staircase myself).


I knew about the attempt regards Ibrox but I admit to not knowing/forgetting about Murray Park.
		
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You seem to be unaware that the deal was re-done on far more favourable terms for Sports Direct by the current baord, hence the outrage.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 9, 2015)

ger147 said:



			You seem to be unaware that the deal was re-done on far more favourable terms for Sports Direct by the current baord, hence the outrage.
		
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Exactly!


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## c1973 (Feb 9, 2015)

ger147 said:



			You seem to be unaware that the deal was re-done on far more favourable terms for Sports Direct by the current baord, hence the outrage.
		
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No, I'm aware of that.  But it seems to me that my point/s is/are either being misinterpreted or that I've not been making them clear enough. Perhaps a combination of the two? 

Are you aware that King etc could have put their hand in their pocket and bought the club/shares prior to all of this shambles kicking off, thus preventing it happening in the first place, but didn't or couldn't come up with the cash?  

I'm not decrying King btw ( I think his heart is in the right place ), I'm just saying things aren't always black n white. 




Anyway I'm going to bow out of this (and any subsequent) thread on this issue now. Save, perhaps, to comment on any response to this post. 


Though the straits be broad or narrow....


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## ger147 (Feb 9, 2015)

c1973 said:



			No, I'm aware of that. But it seems to me that my point/s is/are either being misinterpreted or that I've not been making them clear enough. Perhaps a combination of the two? 

Are you aware that King etc could have put their hand in their pocket and bought the club/shares prior to all of this shambles kicking off, thus preventing it happening in the first place, but didn't or couldn't come up with the cash? 

I'm not decrying King btw ( I think his heart is in the right place ), I'm just saying things aren't always black n white. 




Anyway I'm going to bow out of this (and any subsequent) thread on this issue now. Save, perhaps, to comment on any response to this post. 


Though the straits be broad or narrow....
		
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I think there is a court case coming up about whether anyone else could have bought everything when Charlie boy nipped in, hence the arrests of the administrators and lawyers involved at the time.


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## Val (Feb 9, 2015)

My question about what would the 3 bears bring in comparison was geared towards this chain of thought.

Right now the shareholding of Rangers has been diluted so much that should the 3 bears gain control how would they fund anything without diluting the shares further and begging to the suffering fans again? Neither of these business men will put serious amounts of their own cash in with no guarantee of a return for their investment. Right now Rangers cannot afford to run on it's own 2 feet (hence the Ashley loans) and this Â£10m loan is going no-where, it is currently Rangers biggest debt and when you consider what income the club generate now a Â£10m is a huge debt to carry and even if the 3 bears get control this debt will still be there regardless of who takes it on.

It's only going to get messier IMO


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## davidy233 (Feb 9, 2015)

Not really on topic but I'd just like to mention I'm mates with both the Raith players who scored at Ibrox yesterday - cracking couple of lads, who helped us win promotion last season


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 9, 2015)

Val said:



			My question about what would the 3 bears bring in comparison was geared towards this chain of thought.

Right now the shareholding of Rangers has been diluted so much that should the 3 bears gain control how would they fund anything without diluting the shares further and begging to the suffering fans again? Neither of these business men will put serious amounts of their own cash in with no guarantee of a return for their investment. Right now Rangers cannot afford to run on it's own 2 feet (hence the Ashley loans) and this Â£10m loan is going no-where, it is currently Rangers biggest debt and when you consider what income the club generate now a Â£10m is a huge debt to carry and even if the 3 bears get control this debt will still be there regardless of who takes it on.

It's only going to get messier IMO
		
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Â£5m, at the moment. Another Â£5 available if (when) they need it. Hopefully he'll have been run out of town before then.

3 bears offered the money as well so they have it.

A big part of the reason (not by any means the only reason) for the current financial mess is the board made very optimistic estimates for ticket sales etc but the fans have disengaged completely and will not be back until we have a new regime. 

Assuming the EGM succeeds and a new board is in place just compare the attendances immediately afterwards with those so far this season.


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## Slab (Feb 10, 2015)

And now the London hotel has cancelled the booking Rangers had for their EGM next month !


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 10, 2015)

Slab said:



			And now the London hotel has cancelled the booking Rangers had for their EGM next month !
		
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Can't understand why they went to London when Manchester have loads of posh hotels.


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## Slab (Feb 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Can't understand why they went to London when Manchester have loads of posh hotels.
		
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I think you can!


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 14, 2015)

Much better performance from The Rangers last night, especially the second half. Probably the best they have played this year.
Strange game, Rangers were all over Hibs but still lost 2-0.


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## Adi2Dassler (Feb 14, 2015)

Morning!



9-1


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 14, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Much better performance from The Rangers last night, especially the second half. Probably the best they have played this year.
Strange game, Rangers were all over Hibs but still lost 2-0.
		
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I wanted to ask, having watched last night's game, if that was typical of Rangers and the league in which they play.

Being a child of the late 40's I grew up in a time when Scottish domestic football compared well with the game in England and as recently as the 90's the top two would have held their own against the leading Premier League teams.

In recent times I have seen very little of Scottish football but, of course, knew that the Sky money had made a major difference. What I hadn't realised was how great the difference had become.

That game was being played by two of the top teams in the second tier of Scottish football and since I watch the English Championship live I would have to say that, based upon that performance, neither team would survive at the equivalent level down South.

I admire the supporters with nearly 30,000 I believe turning out on a Friday night to watch that.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 14, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			I wanted to ask, having watched last night's game, if that was typical of Rangers and the league in which they play.

Being a child of the late 40's I grew up in a time when Scottish domestic football compared well with the game in England and as recently as the 90's the top two would have held their own against the leading Premier League teams.

In recent times I have seen very little of Scottish football but, of course, knew that the Sky money had made a major difference. What I hadn't realised was how great the difference had become.

That game was being played by two of the top teams in the second tier of Scottish football and since I watch the English Championship live I would have to say that, based upon that performance, neither team would survive at the equivalent level down South.

I admire the supporters with nearly 30,000 I believe turning out on a Friday night to watch that.
		
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TBH I think The Rangers and Hibs would struggle to stay in the SPL, if promoted.
Hearts would be mid-table.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 14, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Morning!



9-1
		
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Is that the the latest odds on The Rangers to gain promotion to the SPL:lol:


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## Bobirdie (Feb 14, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			I wanted to ask, having watched last night's game, if that was typical of Rangers and the league in which they play.

Being a child of the late 40's I grew up in a time when Scottish domestic football compared well with the game in England and as recently as the 90's the top two would have held their own against the leading Premier League teams.

In recent times I have seen very little of Scottish football but, of course, knew that the Sky money had made a major difference. What I hadn't realised was how great the difference had become.

That game was being played by two of the top teams in the second tier of Scottish football and since I watch the English Championship live I would have to say that, based upon that performance, neither team would survive at the equivalent level down South.

I admire the supporters with nearly 30,000 I believe turning out on a Friday night to watch that.
		
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The tv money has made the english leagues what they are.


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## User62651 (Feb 14, 2015)

TV money has put the English game to the very top, Spain may disagree but they don't have as many good teams as England does so is a weaker league imo. Germany has one great club team at the moment supplying half their national WC winning side so whilst their league is a great model it isn't very strong. Italy has gone way down from where it was as the top league in 80's/90's.
Comparing the Scottish game nowadays it is obviously poor compared to England but so is every other league in European countries with lower populations, even Holland, don't see that as a problem. For me problems are there are too many clubs in Scotland serving up a mediocre product when people are both broke and more interested in doing other things than watch football. Scotland should adopt the winter close season and play through summer like the Scandinavian countries. Powers that be cant see the bigger picture imo.
Rangers and Celtic punched way above their weight for decades before money took over, followed for a while by Fergie's Aberdeen in the 80's and all 3 won European trophies. Credit to Rangers and Celtic for both making the UEFA cup final in the noughties against the odds. Englands problem is the money is restricting development of English players as its easier to buy a good proven foreigner than develop English players. Cant have your cake and eat it, if you want the best richest league then you have to forsake a weaker national team. Spains and Germanys top sides seem to be filled with players from Spain and Germany, unlike Englands top club sides. Media shouting about Harry Kane but he's not all that imo, who are the good English players these days? Takes a bit of thinking about now Gerrard/Lampard are done and Rooney is getting older. Scotland has no answer but I would say Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Inverness, even Hamilton are playing a much improved football than a few years ago. Celtic are half decent as always. Rangers are poor and have a long long way to go yet but I expect they'll get there in time, but a good coach is needed badly.


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## Bobirdie (Feb 14, 2015)

The spanish league is a far better league. It produces so many good players on limited funds outside the big 2.

The only reason the english league is a good league is because they are buying players in from all around the world, notably spain! Just look at the national team. The league hasnt produced players of any 'top' quality in years


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 14, 2015)

Interesting fact with the sacking of Paul Lambert the EPL/Old 1st Division is without a Scottish manager.
Don't know if that has happened before.


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## evahakool (Feb 14, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Interesting fact with the sacking of Paul Lambert the EPL/Old 1st Division is without a Scottish manager.
Don't know if that has happened before.
		
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If you take out Shankly Nickolson, Ferguson and Dalgish Scots managers have a very poor record of managing in England.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 14, 2015)

evahakool said:



			If you take out Shankly Nickolson, Ferguson and Dalgish Scots managers have a very poor record of managing in England.
		
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Busby


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## evahakool (Feb 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Busby
		
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Yea how I could I forget about him, Busby, Nickelson, Ferguson , Shankly no doubt the best managers that's been, but if you think of the history of the premiership there is a lot of scots managers that have not been a success .


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## ger147 (Feb 15, 2015)

evahakool said:



			Yea how I could I forget about him, Busby, Nickelson, Ferguson , Shankly no doubt the best managers that's been, but if you think of the history of the premiership there is a lot of scots managers that have not been a success .
		
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And not a single English manager has won the EPL.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

evahakool said:



			Yea how I could I forget about him, Busby, Nickelson, Ferguson , Shankly no doubt the best managers that's been, but if you think of the history of the premiership there is a lot of scots managers that have not been a success .
		
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Lots of English havent been a success

Think Wilkinson was last Englishman to win title


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 15, 2015)

Folk tend to forget that George Graham won six trophies at Arsenal.
I think Tommy Doc at Chelski and ManU won a few as well.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

I presume that the Nickelson referred to is,in fact, the old Spurs boss Billy Nicholson.

If so then the border between England & Scotland must have been in a completely different place all those years ago.

As for Docherty I don't think too many supporters of the clubs he was involved with would rank him amongst their club's greatest managers.

One FA Cup win and the League Cup when it was even more low-key than now means he cannot be mentioned in the same thread as Busby, Shankly or Ferguson.


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## Val (Feb 15, 2015)

evahakool said:



			If you take out Shankly Nickolson, Ferguson and Dalgish Scots managers have a very poor record of managing in England.
		
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Better than English managers I suppose


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 15, 2015)

According to the Maley Dale Ally McCoist was considered for the Villa job


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			According to the Maley Dale Ally McCoist was considered for the Villa job

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Based upon the evidence of today's first half whoever didn't get that job is the lucky one.

Mind you, from those "in the know" I don't believe he ever was under consideration.


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## CMAC (Feb 15, 2015)

I know someone who says he really knows someone who has the ear of the man who works very near to Tom Fox.

He said it's true. I have no reason to doubt him....


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

CMAC said:



			I know someone who says he really knows someone who has the ear of the man who works very near to Tom Fox.

He said it's true. I have no reason to doubt him....






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After McLeish and then Lambert no chance for another Scot!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

Val said:



			Better than English managers I suppose 

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Certainly very true historically over the last 40 years or so - maybe Clough was the last really true successful English manager.


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## Foxholer (Feb 15, 2015)

CMAC said:



			I know someone who says he really knows someone who has the ear of the man who works very near to Tom Fox.

He said it's true. I have no reason to doubt him....






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He doesn't drive trains does he?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly very true historically over the last 40 years or so - maybe Clough was the last really true successful English manager.
		
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English or Scottish makes no difference.

Got to have the opportunities at the leading clubs if they are to achieve.

Fergie had 27 years at Man U to achieve what he did but otherwise, in the last 20 years, how many British managers have been given a chance at a well-resourced club.


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## blackpuddinmonster (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly very true historically over the last 40 years or so - maybe Clough was the last really true successful English manager.
		
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Never thought i'd read that from a scouser.
Bob Paisley anyone??


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			English or Scottish makes no difference.

Got to have the opportunities at the leading clubs if they are to achieve.

Fergie had 27 years at Man U to achieve what he did but otherwise, in the last 20 years, how many British managers have been given a chance at a well-resourced club.
		
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How many British managers do you think right now would be worthy of that chance ?

Currently we are giving one a chance , in fact last three managers have been.

But looking around its a very thin bunch of British managers pulling up trees enough to point to be given a crack at a well resourced club 

Eddie Howe ?
Sean Dyche ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Never thought i'd read that from a scouser.
Bob Paisley anyone??
		
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Clough was still going after Bob retired hence why said he was the last one :thup:


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## evahakool (Feb 15, 2015)

Val said:



			Better than English managers I suppose 

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Yea English managers have fared no better, Bob Paisley was the last English manager that was really successful and that seems along time ago.


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## blackpuddinmonster (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clough was still going after Bob retired hence why said he was the last one :thup:
		
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Ah true..
I know this will grate a little, but don't you think Howard Kendalls worth a shout ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How many British managers do you think right now would be worthy of that chance ?

Currently we are giving one a chance , in fact last three managers have been.

But looking around its a very thin bunch of British managers pulling up trees enough to point to be given a crack at a well resourced club 

Eddie Howe ?
Sean Dyche ?
		
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I hope that Rodgers is a success but, with all due respect, I was referring to the four clubs with the greatest financial resources.

Man U got their fingers burned with Moyes so, unfortunately, I don't envisage them going down the domestic route in the future nor do I see Wenger's ultimate replacement being homegrown. 

Chelsea & City seem set on the idea that foreign is best (even Grant or di Matteo, neither of whom had much of a CV before their appointment).


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			Ah true..
I know this will grate a little, but don't you think Howard Kendalls worth a shout ?  

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Yeah got a few titles and cups so certainly a success


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			I hope that Rodgers is a success but, with all due respect, I was referring to the four clubs with the greatest financial resources.

Man U got their fingers burned with Moyes so, unfortunately, I don't envisage them going down the domestic route in the future nor do I see Wenger's ultimate replacement being homegrown. 

Chelsea & City seem set on the idea that foreign is best (even Grant or di Matteo, neither of whom had much of a CV before their appointment).
		
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Homegrown haven't exactly ripped up trees

England's worst two recent managers - both home grown 

Man Utd - home grown 

Ours - Home grown 

Arsenal , City - home grown 

The game isn't really bursting at the seems with managers that look like they are worthy of the step up or the chance to be given the role 

The top clubs will more than likely look towards the established proven successful managers ( Di Matteo was caretaker and was forced to be given the role after winning CL , Grant was also caretaker )


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Homegrown haven't exactly ripped up trees

England's worst two recent managers - both home grown 

Man Utd - home grown 

Ours - Home grown 

Arsenal , City - home grown 

The game isn't really bursting at the seems with managers that look like they are worthy of the step up or the chance to be given the role 

The top clubs will more than likely look towards the established proven successful managers ( Di Matteo was caretaker and was forced to be given the role after winning CL , Grant was also caretaker )
		
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England's two foreign managers were hardly unqualified successes (South Africa 2010!).

Man U; well whoever followed Fergie was on a hiding to nothing

In Liverpool's case I think you are being unduly harsh on Dalglish

Arsenal last had another manager, British or otherwise, 20 years ago and Mancini & Pellegrini are the only two to really benefit from the Abu Dhabi billions.

Was Scolari a success at Chelsea?

My point is without being given opportunities we will never know what British managers may have to offer.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 15, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			My point is without being given opportunities we will never know what British managers may have to offer.
		
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Redknapp has had numerous opportunities. He's not been a success and the only thing he'll offer is financial instability as he wheels and deals


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Redknapp has had numerous opportunities. He's not been a success and the only thing he'll offer is financial instability as he wheels and deals
		
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Much as I can't stand the bloke the only comparatively big club where he was given a chance was Spurs and he didn't do too bad a job there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			England's two foreign managers were hardly unqualified successes (South Africa 2010!).

Man U; well whoever followed Fergie was on a hiding to nothing

In Liverpool's case I think you are being unduly harsh on Dalglish

Arsenal last had another manager, British or otherwise, 20 years ago and Mancini & Pellegrini are the only two to really benefit from the Abu Dhabi billions.

Was Scolari a success at Chelsea?

My point is without being given opportunities we will never know what British managers may have to offer.
		
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Eriksson certainly reached the levels you would expect of the England 

And Kenny wasn't our worst manager - that was Hodgson but Kenny was given lots of money and didn't oerform 

Scolari wasn't given a season 

Managers need to earn the chance and I can't recall many British managers who have earned that chance - Moyes and looked how that fared

If one of the top clubs lost their manager right now - which British manager do you think they should give a chance too and based on what ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Eriksson certainly reached the levels you would expect of the England 

And Kenny wasn't our worst manager - that was Hodgson but Kenny was given lots of money and didn't oerform 

Scolari wasn't given a season 

Managers need to earn the chance and I can't recall many British managers who have earned that chance - Moyes and looked how that fared

If one of the top clubs lost their manager right now - which British manager do you think they should give a chance too and based on what ?
		
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Did Houllier do a good job at Liverpool?

He did not have an outstanding record until then.

For example Tony Pulis has been categorised as a defensively minded manager lacking in flair but that may be due to him continually making the most of the resources available to him at smaller clubs with limited resources.

Prejudices aside no one knows what he might have achieved at one of the Big Four.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

Houllier did a good job - won trophies with us including a historic treble 

Before us he has won a title with PSG I believe but mainly involved in international football helping France with the ground work to win the World Cup - but don't see the relevance he has ? 

Again Pulis just like Moyes just keeps teams mid table - a top four club wouldn't touch him - even at Stoke when he was spending money ( a decent amount ) he still bought the same type of players and played the same way.

Prejudices aside I think it would be quite easy to predict what he would do at a big job

The teams pick managers who have succeeded at top clubs because they want the highest possible chance of success - they get that with managers who have already won things - it's far far too big a risk to give a chance to someone who has won nothing - track record shows that 

A manager should never be given a chance based on his nationality


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Houllier did a good job - won trophies with us including a historic treble 

Before us he has won a title with PSG I believe but mainly involved in international football helping France with the ground work to win the World Cup - but don't see the relevance he has ? 

Again Pulis just like Moyes just keeps teams mid table - a top four club wouldn't touch him - even at Stoke when he was spending money ( a decent amount ) he still bought the same type of players and played the same way.

Prejudices aside I think it would be quite easy to predict what he would do at a big job

The teams pick managers who have succeeded at top clubs because they want the highest possible chance of success - they get that with managers who have already won things - it's far far too big a risk to give a chance to someone who has won nothing - track record shows that 

A manager should never be given a chance based on his nationality
		
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Bit unfair on Moyes, he turned us from a mid table team to one that battled with the top 6 and on limited resources, 
Didn't Hodgson have a better record than Kenny over the same amount of games, just like Moyes did over LvG upto a point, Hodgson also had a good Euro CV,
Difference is, teams at the top need to stay near the top and risking Moyes and Hodgson over 2-3 years to rebuild and take a team backwards before moving forwards really isn't an option for the big teams.
Serious question Phil, if Lpool finish 7-8 with no silverware, what pressure will he be under next season.
Has anyone mentioned Sir Bobby Robson?


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## Foxholer (Feb 15, 2015)

Nothwithstanding that Rangers currently have a caretaker manager, this thread has got seriously off topic!

Perhaps 'the Wombat' or one of his colleagues would care to split it!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

Moyes did a decent job at Everton - no doubt 

Took a Man UTD from Champions to 8th

Hodgson was shocking - simple as that and a good Euro CV will include success in a European Comp or success in a top European league - Spain , Germany , Italy or even Holland - Hodgsons CV has none of that. Believe he could have easily relegated us with his signings and tactics 

And Rodgers will always be under pressure at Liverpool - that's the nature of the job.

And Robson was a success both home and abroad


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Moyes did a decent job at Everton - no doubt 

Took a Man UTD from Champions to 8th

Hodgson was shocking - simple as that and a good Euro CV will include success in a European Comp or success in a top European league - Spain , Germany , Italy or even Holland - Hodgsons CV has none of that. Believe he could have easily relegated us with his signings and tactics 

And Rodgers will always be under pressure at Liverpool - that's the nature of the job.

And Robson was a success both home and abroad
		
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All managers at top clubs are under pressure, Moyes didn't get a season, should you's sack Brenda if (I doubt it) you's finish 8th?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			All managers at top clubs are under pressure, Moyes didn't get a season, should you's sack Brenda if (I doubt it) you's finish 8th?
		
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No Rodgers shouldn't get sacked 

But now going wildly off topic and into Liverpool specifics.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No Rodgers shouldn't get sacked 

But now going wildly off topic and into Liverpool specifics.
		
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Since it went off topic you've posted quite a bit and answered specifics on Houllier and hodgson, I post two comments and NOW widly off topic, maybe the questions are to difficult, goodnight, I'm out


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 15, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Since it went off topic you've posted quite a bit and answered specifics on Houllier and hodgson, I post two comments and NOW widly off topic, maybe the questions are to difficult, goodnight, I'm out
		
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They aren't difficult it's just going over old ground all over again 

Any questions on our current manager are widely available in the other thread as they have all been asked before.

If you really want to ask - ask in there.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 15, 2015)

Errrr Rangers thread here chaps
Thanks


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## williamalex1 (Feb 15, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Errrr Rangers IN threadS here chaps
Thanks 

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Sorted that for you Phil. lol


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## Slab (Feb 18, 2015)

So a second London hotel cancels the Rangers EGM booking (the same day it was announced as a venue) and the club are now to hold it at their own stadium 
(no pun intended)


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