# Boris will let us play golf on March 29



## rosecott (Feb 21, 2021)

Telegraph, Guardian and Independent have it on Tomorrow's front pages. I have copies but am unable to post them here.


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## bwstokie (Feb 21, 2021)

I’ve never understood why they were closed in the first place and the fact that it is pretty much certain that it will be a further 5 weeks of no golf just compounds the misery!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 21, 2021)

The Times is saying courses to open on 8th March.


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## Griffsters (Feb 21, 2021)

Words fail me. Open up schools etc and wait 3 weeks to relax anything else? I'm normally fairly laid back, but having freedoms taken away that I'm finding harder to rationalise is making me ...well a bit angry tbh.


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## hovis (Feb 21, 2021)

It says that outdoor "team" sports to start from late march.  I'm still optimistic


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## hairball_89 (Feb 21, 2021)

Griffsters said:



			Words fail me. Open up schools etc and wait 3 weeks to relax anything else? I'm normally fairly laid back, but having freedoms taken away that I'm finding harder to rationalise is making me ...well a bit angry tbh.
		
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I know how you feel. *Although* I do actually wonder if the "open the schools, see what happens for a few weeks _and then_ open up other things" is actually quite a responsible thing to do. We all know that schools are already by and large open - my MiL's class of 32 currently has 29 kids turning up every day! - the problem is this "one thing at a time" has come far too late. But I shan't go any further before this devolves into a nasty politics thread!


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## TheUnwashed (Feb 21, 2021)

The fact that it has been allowed in Scotland throughout says it all. Words actually fail me. 

I was thinking I may get a few weeks out of my membership before leaving. Oh stupid me! How dare you go and do something that benefits your health and has as much chance of spreading Covid as there is of getting attacked by a great white off brighton beach.


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## Wildrover (Feb 21, 2021)

You can meet someone outside for recreation from 8th March but still can't play golf in a 2 ball. Words fail me.


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## louise_a (Feb 21, 2021)

I will wait for official word tomorrow.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 21, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			I know how you feel. *Although* I do actually wonder if the "open the schools, see what happens for a few weeks _and then_ open up other things" is *actually quite a responsible thing to do.* We all know that schools are already by and large open - my MiL's class of 32 currently has 29 kids turning up every day! - the problem is this "one thing at a time" has come far too late. But I shan't go any further before this devolves into a nasty politics thread!
		
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The responsible thing to do would be to follow the science, as was promised.  Nothing I've seen ever supported the closure of golf on a scientific basis.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 21, 2021)

TheUnwashed said:



			The fact that it has been allowed in Scotland throughout says it all. Words actually fail me.

I was thinking I may get a few weeks out of my membership before leaving. Oh stupid me! How dare you go and do something that benefits your health and has as much chance of spreading Covid as there is of getting attacked by a great white off brighton beach.
		
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The fact that it has been allowed in another part of the Union shows just how much of this has been about points scoring rather than following science.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 21, 2021)

louise_a said:



			I will wait for official word tomorrow.
		
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Far too sensible Louise


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## hairball_89 (Feb 21, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			The responsible thing to do would be to follow the science, as was promised.  Nothing I've seen ever supported the closure of golf on a scientific basis.
		
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Absolutely. Nothing has ever been about the science. No matter what has been said. As you pointed out, it's all point scoring.


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## rudebhoy (Feb 22, 2021)

So last week's catchphrase (no doubt dreamed up by a focus group) was we would follow "data, not dates" coming out of lockdown. Surely this is the polar opposite of that?


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## Neilds (Feb 22, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			So last week's catchphrase (no doubt dreamed up by a focus group) was we would follow "data, not dates" coming out of lockdown. Surely this is the polar opposite of that?
		
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But what is *the *data? People can cherry pick stats to prove anything they want so you will always get different opinions from people wanting to drive their own agenda.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 22, 2021)

Griffsters said:



			Words fail me. Open up schools etc and wait 3 weeks to relax anything else? I'm normally fairly laid back, but having freedoms taken away that I'm finding harder to rationalise is making me ...well a bit angry tbh.
		
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Well I tell you what...you’d feel a lot angrier if this pandemic had crashed your life or caused the death of a close one, and not simply put a hold on a pastime...some really do need to get real about how dreadful this last year has been for many.  Maybe they don’t matter.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 22, 2021)

Neilds said:



			But what is *the *data? People can cherry pick stats to prove anything they want so you will always get different opinions from people wanting to drive their own agenda.
		
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So if people can walk round the countryside in pairs safely, what is the data that says waving a golf club around whilst you do it makes it dangerous? Genuinely, please produce it for us and put a whole bunch of people out of their misery.


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## jimbob.someroo (Feb 22, 2021)

hairball_89 said:



			Absolutely. Nothing has ever been about the science. No matter what has been said. As you pointed out, it's all point scoring.
		
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There’s been several studies presented to the government to prove that golf has essentially zero risk, and they have the live example from Scotland. It’s 100% a political decision to keep golf closed.

I wouldn’t mind it as much if they didn’t keep bragging about ‘using the data’ but the fact they keep insisting that they are is just infuriating.


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

It's possibly down to not wanting to be seen to be favouring 1 or 2 sports at the expense of others.
And they did say lockdown was going to be eased slowly.
I'm happy that it's going to be in March...was half expecting mid April.?


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## Neilds (Feb 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			So if people can walk round the countryside in pairs safely, what is the data that says waving a golf club around whilst you do it makes it dangerous? Genuinely, please produce it for us and put a whole bunch of people out of their misery.
		
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I am not specifically talking about golf but I’m sure someone might be able to prove that the (percieved) age group of golf club members are in a high risk group and therefore it shouldn’t be allowed.
Please take note, I am not saying golf shouldn’t be allowed but saying that stats can proof anything if you want them to.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			It's possibly down to not wanting to be seen to be favouring 1 or 2 sports at the expense of others.
And they did say lockdown was going to be eased slowly.
I'm happy that it's going to be in March...was half expecting mid April.?
		
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Walking the dog yesterday I saw runners in pairs, cyclists in pairs. They are already favouring certain sports on that basis. The reasoning behind the golf ban is optics, nothing else.


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## rudebhoy (Feb 22, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I tell you what...you’d feel a lot angrier if this pandemic had crashed your life or caused the death of a close one, and not simply put a hold on a pastime...some really do need to get real about how dreadful this last year has been for many.  Maybe they don’t matter.

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Prof Woolhouse who advises SAGE was quoted yesterday saying that studies show the number of cases where the virus was transmitted outdoor was between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000. He was recommending that on that basis, and given the large drop in new cases overall, and the faster than expected rollout of the vaccine, outdoor sport should be allowed immediately. 

That is a data driven approach. What was leaked last night was driven (rightly or wrongly) by a desire to send a message that we are going to be as ultra-cautious as possible. That is a perfectly valid approach, but don't tell us that using such a broad brush is data driven.


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## hovis (Feb 22, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I tell you what...you’d feel a lot angrier if this pandemic had crashed your life or caused the death of a close one, and not simply put a hold on a pastime...some really do need to get real about how dreadful this last year has been for many.  Maybe they don’t matter.

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Oh get over yourself!!!!  We all get that people have been affected and died Durring this pandemic.  To say that we must all stand back in sorrow and not get frustrated about the restraints put on our life's is stupid.  Where in his post did he say they don't matter 🙄?


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Walking the dog yesterday I saw runners in pairs, cyclists in pairs. They are already favouring certain sports on that basis. The reasoning behind the golf ban is optics, nothing else.
		
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That can be construed as coming under the banner of exercise.
Golf, tennis, bowls, etc etc lumped together as "sport"
Wasn't that a reason in the first place when EG asked for an exemption and got refused as they wanted all sport off the menu?
I don't know, I'm just giving a potential reason.

Yes, I want to get back playing tomorrow but if its the end of next month rather than 2 weeks time I'm not going to get stressed about it.
We'll have a time frame 
Be happy with that.
It could have gone on a lot longer.


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## DanFST (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Yes, I want to get back playing tomorrow but if its the end of next month rather than 2 weeks time I'm not going to get stressed about it.
We'll have a time frame
Be happy with that.
It could have gone on a lot longer.
		
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Be happy that something is being taking away and business' and people are financially suffering, for absolutely no valid reason? 

*Tho I must reinforce i don't think it's true and the media have jumped the gun, once again. *


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## rudebhoy (Feb 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Walking the dog yesterday I saw runners in pairs, cyclists in pairs. They are already favouring certain sports on that basis. The reasoning behind the golf ban is optics, nothing else.
		
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I had multiple runners and cyclists squeeze by me on narrow pavements yesterday, they would have been less than a yard away. Surely in relative terms, that poses far more of a threat than a couple of golfers with a hole to themselves?


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## rudebhoy (Feb 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Be happy that something is being taking away and business' and people are financially suffering, for absolutely no valid reason?

*Tho I must reinforce i don't think it's true and the media have jumped the gun, once again. *

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The media don't make this stuff up. It gets leaked to them in advance as a matter of course.


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## HeftyHacker (Feb 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Be happy that something is being taking away and business' and people are financially suffering, for absolutely no valid reason?

*Tho I must reinforce i don't think it's true and the media have jumped the gun, once again. *

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Well the vaccine minister has just been all over the BBC confirming much of the above re the 29th so I'd say its pretty reliable info now.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 22, 2021)

Neilds said:



			I am not specifically talking about golf but I’m sure someone might be able to prove that the (percieved) age group of golf club members are in a high risk group and therefore it shouldn’t be allowed.
Please take note, I am not saying golf shouldn’t be allowed but saying that stats 
can proof anything if you want them to.
		
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The data has been produced and proves quite the opposite and has been sent to the appropriate authorities.  They have apparently chosen to ignore it.


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## Orikoru (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			It's possibly down to not wanting to be seen to be favouring 1 or 2 sports at the expense of others.
And they did say lockdown was going to be eased slowly.
I'm happy that it's going to be in March...was half expecting mid April.?
		
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This is what I've always thought it was. Rather than assessing each sport individually, they've just blanket banned them, so it doesn't look like golf has got preferential treatment, and they don't get moaned at by brain-dead fans of other sports saying things like "golf is allowed, so why can't I grapple with strangers on a rugby pitch?? It's out of order!"


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## KenL (Feb 22, 2021)

Has travel for golf been mentioned? That is a real barrier to many playing golf in Scotland at the moment. Here you are not allowed to travel from one county to another. Even if you are only a few miles away you are not allowed.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			That can be construed as coming under the banner of exercise.
Golf, tennis, bowls, etc etc lumped together as "sport"
Wasn't that a reason in the first place when EG asked for an exemption and got refused as they wanted all sport off the menu?
I don't know, I'm just giving a potential reason.

Yes, I want to get back playing tomorrow but if its the end of next month rather than 2 weeks time I'm not going to get stressed about it.
We'll have a time frame
Be happy with that.
It could have gone on a lot longer.
		
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We can play semantics back and forth on this. Golf is exercise. Running and cycling are in the Olympics, receive millions each in sporting grants. It's 2 people carrying out a sporting activity. Is there really a difference?

Ultimately what happens happens. I'm just having a morning grump about it today 😠😆


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			We can play semantics back and forth on this. Golf is exercise. Running and cycling are in the Olympics, receive millions each in sporting grants. It's 2 people carrying out a sporting activity. Is there really a difference?

Ultimately what happens happens. I'm just having a morning grump about it today 😠😆
		
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I can tell


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## rudebhoy (Feb 22, 2021)

KenL said:



			Has travel for golf been mentioned? That is a real barrier to many playing golf in Scotland at the moment. Here you are not allowed to travel from one county to another. Even if you are only a few miles away you are not allowed.
		
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Don't think you are going to get much sympathy on here for that particular issue


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

For those of you who wanted the scienice here it is:-
https://parliamentary.golf/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/APPGG-Covid-Secure-Golf-January-2021.pdf


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## Yorkhacker (Feb 22, 2021)

Thank god, we are (hopefully) getting an official announcement today and all these pointless speculation threads can stop! Then we can have the endless 'it's ridiculous we can't play golf yet but I can do this, that and the other' posts


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 22, 2021)

hovis said:



			Oh get over yourself!!!!  We all get that people have been affected and died Durring this pandemic.  To say that we must all stand back in sorrow and not get frustrated about the restraints put on our life's is stupid.  Where in his post did he say they don't matter 🙄?
		
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Rather than whinge we could actually just be grateful...and wait a little longer.  In the great scheme of things it’s no big deal and really nothing to get angry about.


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## DanFST (Feb 22, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Rather than whinge we could actually just be grateful
		
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Be grateful about what?


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## hovis (Feb 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Be grateful about what?
		
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He'll most likely say your health, your life, it hasn't happened to you, people have it worse.  Blah blah blah.     
It's frustrates me that people demonise you for not wanting to be a prisoner in your own home


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## HeftyHacker (Feb 22, 2021)

KenL said:



			Has travel for golf been mentioned? That is a real barrier to many playing golf in Scotland at the moment. Here you are not allowed to travel from one county to another. Even if you are only a few miles away you are not allowed.
		
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I read on BBC this morning (although now, typically, I can't find the article) that there will be no travel restrictions after that 29th March date BUT hotels and hospitality are unlikely to be open. So i guess that means you could travel for golf. Guidance was still to stay in your local area though.

However this guidance is England-centric so Scotland may have other plans.


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## Neilds (Feb 22, 2021)

Yorkhacker said:



			Thank god, we are (hopefully) getting an official announcement today and all these pointless speculation threads can stop! Then we can have the endless 'it's ridiculous we can't play golf yet but I can do this, that and the other' posts
		
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And don’t forget - 2 balls are not proper golf, can only play 9 holes, putting is rubbish with flag in, bunkers are terrible, can’t drink on bar afterwards, not social golf, 2 groups ahead joined into a 4 ball, etc. Can’t wait 😀😀😀


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## Griffsters (Feb 22, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well I tell you what...you’d feel a lot angrier if this pandemic had crashed your life or caused the death of a close one, and not simply put a hold on a pastime...some really do need to get real about how dreadful this last year has been for many.  Maybe they don’t matter.

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I tend to be quite pragmatic. On one hand I have a family member who passed last week after battling covid since January. 2 kids, 50 yr old and strong as an ox. Gone.

On the other hand I recognise that golf (amongst other outside recreation or sporting activities) can be done with very little extra risk and bring huge benefits to millions of people who are desperate to get back to some kind of normality in a managed and safe way.

Your response is a very emotional one and you have genuine reasons for that I'm sure. IMHO Covid is going to be taking lives for many years to come, like many other dangers in life we need to get on with the reality of managing the risk as individuals.


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## Scoobiesnax (Feb 22, 2021)

Griffsters said:



			I tend to be quite pragmatic. On one hand I have a family member who passed last week after battling covid since January. 2 kids, 50 yr old and strong as an ox. Gone.

On the other hand I recognise that golf (amongst other outside recreation or sporting activities) can be done with very little extra risk and bring huge benefits to millions of people who are desperate to get back to some kind of normality in a managed and safe way.

Your response is a very emotional one and you have genuine reasons for that I'm sure. IMHO Covid is going to be taking lives for many years to come, like many other dangers in life we need to get on with the reality of managing the risk as individuals.
		
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Sorry for your loss.

I agree Covid is here to stay; many more people will unfortunately die of other illnesses too during the course of the years to come.  One thing is always certain - death is everyone's end game.  We need to live our lives as best we can, as safe as we can, and get on with our lives as near normal as we can.


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## mister v (Feb 22, 2021)

i went for a walk on our course yesterday and it'll take untill the 29th march for it to dry out and be playable!!!


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 22, 2021)

Neilds said:



			And don’t forget - 2 balls are not proper golf, can only play 9 holes, putting is rubbish with flag in, bunkers are terrible, can’t drink on bar afterwards, not social golf, 2 groups ahead joined into a 4 ball, etc. Can’t wait 😀😀😀
		
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For those who are stuck working from home and consequently in the same house with the same person 24/7 except for the one walk per day you really underestimate what a relief 9 holes of 2 ball golf would be; 90 minutes of a different face, a different perspective on the issues and a change of scenery had a massive impact on mental health for people in that position.


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			For those who are stuck working from home and consequently in the same house with the same person 24/7 except for the one walk per day you really underestimate what a relief 9 holes of 2 ball golf would be; 90 minutes of a different face, a different perspective on the issues and a change of scenery had a massive impact on mental health for people in that position.
		
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I'm with you Rich...but it could have been mid to late April...
We have something to look forward to.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 22, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			Don't think you are going to get much sympathy on here for that particular issue 

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Really.......
According to a misguided few on here Boris is berated for not allowing golf in England whilst Nicola is also berated for allowing golf in Scotland.
That makes no sense whatsoever.

The LA distance barrier is an obvious benefit in curbing the spread of the virus.
Can be a bit unfair though if your golf club is a couple of miles over the border from where you live.


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## MarkT (Feb 22, 2021)

I'll take March 29 but mainly because schools reopen in two weeks and, personally, that's far bigger. The really great news is that the Easter holidays kick off on March 29 so golf will be relatively futile for lots of parents anyway though it will be great to spend a bit more quality time with the family again.


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## Crazyface (Feb 22, 2021)

I've booked the remaining hours of my holiday allowance for dates in March, because they have to be used by April, so I'm just off to ring BJ for one last plea for 8th March.


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## Neilds (Feb 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			For those who are stuck working from home and consequently in the same house with the same person 24/7 except for the one walk per day you really underestimate what a relief 9 holes of 2 ball golf would be; 90 minutes of a different face, a different perspective on the issues and a change of scenery had a massive impact on mental health for people in that position.
		
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Lighten up, can’t you see I was joking!
And for your information, I have been out of work since the middle of last year, so being stuck at home with no golf has been no picnic for me either. Luckily starting work again next week 🤪


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## banjofred (Feb 22, 2021)

Yep, looking forward to schools opening again.....although....the schools get to do outdoor after school sports. Oh well, it is what it is......


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## need_my_wedge (Feb 22, 2021)

Crazyface said:



			I've booked the remaining hours of my holiday allowance for dates in March, because they have to be used by April, so I'm just off to ring BJ for one last plea for 8th March. 

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Have done the same for the last week of March in the hope we are back out and playing by then


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## Yorkhacker (Feb 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			For those who are stuck working from home and consequently in the same house with the same person 24/7 except for the one walk per day you really underestimate what a relief 9 holes of 2 ball golf would be; 90 minutes of a different face, a different perspective on the issues and a change of scenery had a massive impact on mental health for people in that position.
		
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I think you have misinterpreted Neilds's post. I think he is saying is that once people have stopped moaning about no golf, they'll start moaning about all the other things they can't do on a golf course


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

We have an arrangement with a local school and some of their pupils use our course and practice areas - as outdoor school sports will be allowed, will they be allowed to play golf?


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## rudebhoy (Feb 22, 2021)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Really.......
According to a misguided few on here Boris is berated for not allowing golf in England whilst Nicola is also berated for allowing golf in Scotland.
That makes no sense whatsoever.

The LA distance barrier is an obvious benefit in curbing the spread of the virus.
*Can be a bit unfair though if your golf club is a couple of miles over the border from where you live.*

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presumably you can still use a pay and play course in your own area in those circs?


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

D-S said:



			We have an arrangement with a local school and some of their pupils use our course and practice areas - as outdoor school sports will be allowed, will they be allowed to play golf?
		
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Will the course be open?


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 22, 2021)

Neilds said:



			Lighten up, can’t you see I was joking!
And for your information, I have been out of work since the middle of last year, so being stuck at home with no golf has been no picnic for me either. Luckily starting work again next week 🤪
		
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To be honest, trying to justify the decision on the basis that there might be some evidence to support it when clearly there isn’t, no I can’t see you were joking.


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## KenL (Feb 22, 2021)

rudebhoy said:



			presumably you can still use a pay and play course in your own area in those circs?
		
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Yes, my mates did that at the weekend.


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## redbrownie (Feb 22, 2021)

29th will fit in nicely with my post-Christmas weight loss; should be able to squeeze into my golf gear around then 

Every cloud and all that.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2021)

D-S said:



			We have an arrangement with a local school and some of their pupils use our course and practice areas - as outdoor school sports will be allowed, will they be allowed to play golf?
		
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I would think not. The course is closed.


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## DanFST (Feb 22, 2021)

Local school near me has their own golf course, they will be playing.


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## DRW (Feb 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			For those who are stuck working from home and consequently in the same house with the same person 24/7 except for the one walk per day you really underestimate what a relief 9 holes of 2 ball golf would be; 90 minutes of a different face, a different perspective on the issues and a change of scenery had a massive impact on mental health for people in that position.
		
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I've worked from home for about 21 years now, and loved working from home, never in that period did I hate working from home.

I am currently hating it, all I do is see the house, oh and drive to the shops about once every 10-14 days for shopping. I'm lucky really and know I am, healthly and not worrying about finances really, I know people who are in a worse position financially then me.

5 more weeks to flipping go and in the last year half of it has been in lockdown.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			So if people can walk round the countryside in pairs safely, what is the data that says waving a golf club around whilst you do it makes it dangerous? Genuinely, please produce it for us and put a whole bunch of people out of their misery.
		
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Playing golf is not the problem, as we know this is an extremely safe activity in terms of COVID transmission. However, what we have seen (me certainly) is that as soon as courses open there are people gathering socially for a beer and a chat and ignoring social distancing.

Golf clubs have fueled this behaviour with outdoor bars, marquees, patio heaters etc. The clubs are responding to demand from members so I don't blame them. It's just that there is always a minority that spoils it for the rest of us.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Local school near me has their own golf course, they will be playing.
		
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Have you tried on your school uniform to see if it still fits? You could nip on to the course without being detected.


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## JonnyGutteridge (Feb 22, 2021)

Feel completely gutted about this. I know there is ultimately a bigger picture beyond golf, but I think most people are frustrated because the decision is so irrational.

I just hope 4 balls are allowed.


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## DanFST (Feb 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Have you tried on your school uniform to see if it still fits? You could nip on to the course without being detected.
		
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I have a quarantine moustache. 

I'll be arrested within 30 seconds of stepping foot on the grounds!


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## DRW (Feb 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Playing golf is not the problem, as we know this is an extremely safe activity in terms of COVID transmission. However, what we have seen (me certainly) is that as soon as courses open there are people gathering socially for a beer and a chat and ignoring social distancing.

Golf clubs have fueled this behaviour with outdoor bars, marquees, patio heaters etc. The clubs are responding to demand from members so I don't blame them. It's just that there is always a minority that spoils it for the rest of us.
		
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Know of loads of virus cases, that people have caught the virus from those activities ? Got any links to any ? Got any links to science based  papers showing loads of such cases ?

I personally know of not one person and they also very rarely get reported, there is a reason for that, the risk is much lower than inside. Not saying it doesn't happen but it is fairly rare.

All the people I know who caught it, are from work, hospitals, care homes, social mixing inside, train journey.

We need to move on from the made up blame game, like above and beaches, parks etc and start promoting the low risk stuff such as  sitting outside, going to the parks, goto to the beach, play golfing, patio heaters and so on rather than sitting inside, its where you want people to me......


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Playing golf is not the problem, as we know this is an extremely safe activity in terms of COVID transmission. However, what we have seen (me certainly) is that as soon as courses open there are people gathering socially for a beer and a chat and ignoring social distancing.

Golf clubs have fueled this behaviour with outdoor bars, marquees, patio heaters etc. The clubs are responding to demand from members so I don't blame them. It's just that there is always a minority that spoils it for the rest of us.
		
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I certainly would not dispute that you may have witnessed such breaches. 

However, I did not and neither have I heard of any, either  at my own Club or any others in the area.

That being so I can't help but wonder just how many  instances there were nationally to justify this further delay. 

Certainly there doesn't appear to be any evidence of outbreaks of the virus having emanated from  a golf setting.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

D-S said:



			For those of you who wanted the scienice here it is:-
https://parliamentary.golf/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/APPGG-Covid-Secure-Golf-January-2021.pdf

Click to expand...

That is such a poorly structured report, no wonder they had zero success. Give me a few hours with powerpoint and I could easily turn the content into something that actually makes an impact.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2021)

DRW said:



			Know of loads of virus cases, that people have caught the virus from those activities ? Got any links to any ? Got any links to science based  papers showing loads of such cases ?

I personally know of not one person and they also very rarely get reported, there is a reason for that, the risk is much lower than inside. Not saying it doesn't happen but it is fairly rare.

All the people I know who caught it, are from work, hospitals, care homes, social mixing inside, train journey.

We need to move on from the made up blame game, like above and beaches, parks etc and start promoting the low risk stuff such as  sitting outside, going to the parks, goto to the beach, play golfing, patio heaters and so on rather than sitting inside, its where you want people to me......
		
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Surely that’s the problem with all this data, we/they can’t actually be sure were you caught the virus, ie, socialises in the Golf Club car park on the Sunday, travels to work on a train Monday and works indoors.

All 3 or none could be the source, yes there are less risks to dome than others, but none can be ruled out.

I’m amazed when they show the home as one of the worst areas for catching the virus, who brought it in? And where from?


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

clubchamp98 said:



			I would think not. The course is closed.
		
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Our course is closed because no one, who normally would, is allowed to play on it. If people are allowed to play we can open it easily. We would have done had a couple of our really good juniors been in England squads as play was/is allowed for such players as they are designated as ‘elite sports people’ - however our two were just out of these elite squads and so didn’t qualify so we didn’t. Opening the practice areas and driving range for the school would not be a problem, even the holes we are not working on at the moment would be ok too.


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely that’s the problem with all this data, we/they can’t actually be sure were you caught the virus, ie, socialises in the Golf Club car park on the Sunday, travels to work on a train Monday and works indoors.

All 3 or none could be the source, yes there are less risks to dome than others, but none can be ruled out.

I’m amazed when they show the home as one of the worst areas for catching the virus, who brought it in? And where from?
		
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If the issue is that we in England don’t have the data, how about real world, real time experience? - I could point them in the direction of a lot of this - North.


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2021)

Been trying to work out how to word this. In reality, the lockdown is starting to be lifted on 29th March. 8th March is a bit of a red herring as it effectively relates to schools only (and a minor tweak to clean up the rules on meeting for exercise etc). The actual lifting starts on 29th March and golf is first up. Golf has to accept that, to simplify matters, it has been grouped with other outdoor sports and will be treated in line with them. Not fair, maybe, but nor is my village pub being treated the same as a city centre Weatherspoons but when you are dealing with this on a national level then you have to deal in pretty broad categories. 

What you have now though is a situation with no rushed return. The clubs have 5 weeks to get the courses back in tip top condition and with them having been rested over the worst of the winter, you can all expect to return to courses in peak condition.


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## JonnyGutteridge (Feb 22, 2021)

Who is ultimately responsible for failing us? 

England Golf have put out plenty of strongly worded open letters, but are they in the ear of the Minister for Sport enough to be heard?

Does the minister for Sport not listen to England Golf? Does he not look to the facts and look at the data?

The Angling Trust managed to be heard... they made their case and the government listened. Why has golf not been able to receive the same representation?


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

D-S said:



			Our course is closed because no one, who normally would, is allowed to play on it. If people are allowed to play we can open it easily. We would have done had a couple of our really good juniors been in England squads as play was/is allowed for such players as they are designated as ‘elite sports people’ - however our two were just out of these elite squads and so didn’t qualify so we didn’t. Opening the practice areas and driving range for the school would not be a problem, even the holes we are not working on at the moment would be ok too.
		
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Primarily, it's golf courses and golf facilities that have been ordered to close.
As a result we are unable, legally, to play golf.
Not the other way round.


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Been trying to work out how to word this. In reality, the lockdown is starting to be lifted on 29th March. 8th March is a bit of a red herring as it effectively relates to schools only (and a minor tweak to clean up the rules on meeting for exercise etc). The actual lifting starts on 29th March and golf is first up. Golf has to accept that, to simplify matters, it has been grouped with other outdoor sports and will be treated in line with them. Not fair, maybe, but nor is my village pub being treated the same as a city centre Weatherspoons but when you are dealing with this on a national level then you have to deal in pretty broad categories.

What you have now though is a situation with no rushed return. The clubs have 5 weeks to get the courses back in tip top condition and with them having been rested over the worst of the winter, you can all expect to return to courses in peak condition.
		
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Ever the voice of reason Greg...maybe you should become a politician


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## Bdill93 (Feb 22, 2021)

The fact that people might be able to socially sit and picnic, but still not play golf (even in 2 balls) is absurd to me.


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Primarily, it's golf courses and golf facilities that have been ordered to close.
As a result we are unable, legally, to play golf.
Not the other way round.
		
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Not necessarily - England Golf asked clubs to allow elite players to be able to use their practice facilities and/or courses to continue practice and training if they requested it, so courses weren’t closed to everyone just non elite players.


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2021)

Actually interested to see what people expect on 29th. As I mentioned, this is not a rushed return like before and it would seem that many having been paying full subs during this lockdown. As such, are you expecting the club to call back all of the staff now and have the course in pristine condition for 5 weeks time or are you expecting the club to keep staff furloughed for as long as possible and slowly build up the course condition.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Been trying to work out how to word this. In reality, the lockdown is starting to be lifted on 29th March. 8th March is a bit of a red herring as it effectively relates to schools only (and a minor tweak to clean up the rules on meeting for exercise etc). The actual lifting starts on 29th March and golf is first up. Golf has to accept that, to simplify matters, it has been grouped with other outdoor sports and will be treated in line with them. Not fair, maybe, but nor is my village pub being treated the same as a city centre Weatherspoons but when you are dealing with this on a national level then you have to deal in pretty broad categories.

What you have now though is a situation with no rushed return. The clubs have 5 weeks to get the courses back in tip top condition and with them having been rested over the worst of the winter, you can all expect to return to courses in peak condition.
		
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Your sensible and measured comments don't belong on here. We expect moaning, hyberbole and nonsense


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## Billysboots (Feb 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Playing golf is not the problem, as we know this is an extremely safe activity in terms of COVID transmission. However, what we have seen (me certainly) is that as soon as courses open there are people gathering socially for a beer and a chat and ignoring social distancing.

Golf clubs have fueled this behaviour with outdoor bars, marquees, patio heaters etc. The clubs are responding to demand from members so I don't blame them. It's just that there is always a minority that spoils it for the rest of us.
		
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That is a golf club problem, not a problem with golf, and any clubs which have allowed that have been irresponsible in the extreme.

Ours have been strict during restricted periods, such as the return from lockdown in May. Arrive 10 minutes before your tee time, play golf, then go home. They have taken a really firm line with anyone socialising in the car park afterwards, be that for a sneaky beer from the boot of the car or simply gathering for a ten minute chat. A number of members have been suspended and a couple have seen memberships terminated for multiple transgressions.

Whilst not doubting that a minority of clubs have perhaps been a little lax, most I have been to have done all they can to be Covid compliant. Some have gone as far as roping practice greens into defined areas, allowing one golfer per area at a time.

Any club taking a relaxed approach have done themselves, and the rest of us, a huge disservice if social mixing off the course has contributed to a ban on golf, which it doubtless has.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Actually interested to see what people expect on 29th. As I mentioned, this is not a rushed return like before and it would seem that many having been paying full subs during this lockdown. As such, are you expecting the club to call back all of the staff now and have the course in pristine condition for 5 weeks time or are you expecting the club to keep staff furloughed for as long as possible and slowly build up the course condition.
		
Click to expand...

We have not furloughed any greens staff this time around. 

After all this lockdown has coincided with a time of the year when major projects are undertaken. 

The advantage this year has been that staff have not been constantly interrupted by members.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Actually interested to see what people expect on 29th. As I mentioned, this is not a rushed return like before and it would seem that many having been paying full subs during this lockdown. As such, are you expecting the club to call back all of the staff now and have the course in pristine condition for 5 weeks time or are you expecting the club to keep staff furloughed for as long as possible and slowly build up the course condition.
		
Click to expand...

I've payed full subs and received only 2/3 the ability to play. I don't expect pristine conditions but it should be pretty damned good. Tee boxes, fairways and greens. Tidy up the bunkers from March 29th, keep them GUR for a while if required, but the rest should be on the money. I appreciate that may be unreasonable and overly high expectations but it is coming up to renewal time and I'm getting a lot of grief from my wife .


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## SatchFan (Feb 22, 2021)

Having been regularly walking round my local course I reckon it will take the greenkeepers five weeks to rake all the bunkers and remove the mountains of dog turds within.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

DRW said:



			Know of loads of virus cases, that people have caught the virus from those activities ? Got any links to any ? Got any links to science based  papers showing loads of such cases ?

I personally know of not one person and they also very rarely get reported, there is a reason for that, the risk is much lower than inside. Not saying it doesn't happen but it is fairly rare.

All the people I know who caught it, are from work, hospitals, care homes, social mixing inside, train journey.

We need to move on from the made up blame game, like above and beaches, parks etc and start promoting the low risk stuff such as  sitting outside, going to the parks, goto to the beach, play golfing, patio heaters and so on rather than sitting inside, its where you want people to me......
		
Click to expand...

No I don't have any facts. Generally there is little to no evidence of where people caught the virus.

In the absence of facts, perception rules. And, my perception is that the government doesn't trust golfers to behave responsibly, rightly or wrongly.


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## DRW (Feb 22, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Surely that’s the problem with all this data, we/they can’t actually be sure were you caught the virus, ie, socialises in the Golf Club car park on the Sunday, travels to work on a train Monday and works indoors.

All 3 or none could be the source, yes there are less risks to dome than others, but none can be ruled out.

I’m amazed when they show the home as one of the worst areas for catching the virus, who brought it in? And where from?
		
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The most important bit you missed out, is who had the virus that X caught it off ? Most people know who they caught it off.... So who was it, rather than made up situations ?

I stopped reacting to headline/outrage stuff(even tho it is hard not to still, like parked parks, crowded beaches), that is not a driver of spread. 

There is plenty of interesting science based studies/papers from other countries, where they do genome sequencing on contacts of X infected person and trace it back/forward, well worth looking at them if you believe what you have written above. And the genome sequencing basically confirms you caught it from X person in the nightclub or restaurant or outside or  like (especially useful very early on in the pandemic). Well worth reading about if you have not Paul.


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			We have not furloughed any greens staff this time around.

After all this lockdown has coincided with a time of the year when major projects are undertaken.

The advantage this year has been that staff have not been constantly interrupted by members.
		
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This is it, how often have greens staff had 3 months of uninterrupted access to the course and no footfall and damage caused by play to deal with.


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## Billysboots (Feb 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I've payed full subs and received only 2/3 the ability to play. I don't expect pristine conditions but it should be pretty damned good. Tee boxes, fairways and greens. Tidy up the bunkers from March 29th, keep them GUR for a while if required, but the rest should be on the money. I appreciate that may be unreasonable and overly high expectations but it is coming up to renewal time and I'm getting a lot of grief from my wife .
		
Click to expand...

Most of our greenkeeping team were furloughed 12 months ago. This time round, because all members agreed to pay full subs in January, they’ve been kept on and have been busy working on the course, so I’m expecting to see it in really good nick when we get back.

We’re reaping the rewards for the number of golfers playing throughout last summer. The club was rammed, dawn to dusk, every day, and the management made a commitment to invest the money that was pouring in into the course. They’ve kept their word, which is great to see.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Actually interested to see what people expect on 29th.
		
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I am expecting the course to be like Augusta.

Course closed in November, limited traffic in December due to weather and reduced daylight, then closed Jan-Mar. That's five months rest, recuperation and preparation.

I also expect a montage video.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			This is it, how often have greens staff had 3 months of uninterrupted access to the course and no footfall and damage caused by play to deal with.
		
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Don’t build expectations up , bet they have several humps back to pure mud


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

We ran a split shift greenkeeping pattern all last year so that if there was an infection in one team we would still have some staff working and not the whole lot off for 2 weeks.
It worked well.
I believe we've done this during this lockdown as well.
Constant work on the course  with no interruptions, other than a day of snow.....
They got it in pretty good condition after the first lockdown.
This time should be even better.

It'll be members only for a while...I wonder how long it will be until we get the email reminding us to fix pitch marks....?


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## harpo_72 (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			We ran a split shift greenkeeping pattern all last year so that if there was an infection in one team we would still have some staff working and not the whole lot off for 2 weeks.
It worked well.
I believe we've done this during this lockdown as well.
Constant work on the course  with no interruptions, other than a day of snow.....
They got it in pretty good condition after the first lockdown.
This time should be even better.

It'll be members only for a while...I wonder how long it will be until we get the email reminding us to fix pitch marks....?
		
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10am on the day of opening


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			10am on the day of opening
		
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I was thinking 10am the day before to be honest.....


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## Tashyboy (Feb 22, 2021)

When we returned after the first lockdown the course was pristine. It lasted all of a week. The course was rammed and I had never seen so many divots that had not been replaced, pitch marks on greens. 
No expectation, just happy to be back.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Been trying to work out how to word this. In reality, the lockdown is starting to be lifted on 29th March. 8th March is a bit of a red herring as it effectively relates to schools only (and a minor tweak to clean up the rules on meeting for exercise etc). The actual lifting starts on 29th March and golf is first up. Golf has to accept that, to simplify matters, it has been grouped with other outdoor sports and will be treated in line with them. Not fair, maybe, but nor is my village pub being treated the same as a city centre Weatherspoons but when you are dealing with this on a national level then you have to deal in pretty broad categories.

What you have now though is a situation with no rushed return. The clubs have 5 weeks to get the courses back in tip top condition and with them having been rested over the worst of the winter, you can all expect to return to courses in peak condition.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure how they can be in peak condition without any grass growing....


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## Canary_Yellow (Feb 22, 2021)

saving_par said:



			Not sure how they can be in peak condition without any grass growing....
		
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That's changed down south in the last week or so. Unless my lawn is operating in its own micro climate.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 22, 2021)

Canary_Yellow said:



			That's changed down south in the last week or so. Unless my lawn is operating in its own micro climate.
		
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Spring starts way earlier down your way, weeks away up here from any meaningful growth. Actually mild up here today but back to 40 mph plus winds and heavy rain from tomorrow.

Just glad to be playing links when we get going as any parkland golf will not be enjoyable at all.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

saving_par said:



			Not sure how they can be in peak condition without any grass growing....
		
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I expect progress on:
- projects to improve conditioning, e.g. drainage.
- no damage due to traffic on the course, e.g. churning up walk off areas.
- cosmetic projects e.g. relaying / tidying paths.

And now, we are starting to see growth, so in 5 weeks should be tip top. I'm hoping my club does some tining / hollow coring type work so we don't have to suffer it later in the year when we are all back playing.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 22, 2021)

DRW said:



*The most important bit you missed out, is who had the virus that X caught it off ? Most people know who they caught it off.... So who was it, rather than made up situations ?*

I stopped reacting to headline/outrage stuff(even tho it is hard not to still, like parked parks, crowded beaches), that is not a driver of spread.

There is plenty of interesting science based studies/papers from other countries, where they do genome sequencing on contacts of X infected person and trace it back/forward, well worth looking at them if you believe what you have written above. And the genome sequencing basically confirms you caught it from X person in the nightclub or restaurant or outside or  like (especially useful very early on in the pandemic). Well worth reading about if you have not Paul.
		
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I don’t think most people do, they might guess or have a basic idea, but this Country hasn’t done any large scale genome sequencing like other Countries.

I agree about the headlines, but that comes back to strategy and what ours was/is.

I do actually read the links you and others post (some goes over my head) and at times we seemed to been behind the curve.

Track n Trace etc, sorry, but I’d end up with a ban if I posted my thoughts on that.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2021)

D-S said:



			Our course is closed because no one, who normally would, is allowed to play on it. If people are allowed to play we can open it easily. We would have done had a couple of our really good juniors been in England squads as play was/is allowed for such players as they are designated as ‘elite sports people’ - however our two were just out of these elite squads and so didn’t qualify so we didn’t. Opening the practice areas and driving range for the school would not be a problem, even the holes we are not working on at the moment would be ok too.
		
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I am sure quite a few of the members would not be happy if the course they pay for but can’t use was opened for a school.
Our course needs time for the GK To get it ready for playing.
As there’s only been two lads in.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 22, 2021)

Very interested to know what outdoor recreation is

Only because that's allowed 8th march

Isn't golf that? I know it prob hasn't been classed as but just the wording


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 22, 2021)

D-S said:



			Our course is closed because no one, who normally would, is allowed to play on it. If people are allowed to play we can open it easily. We would have done had a couple of our really good juniors been in England squads as play was/is allowed for such players as they are designated as ‘elite sports people’ - however our two were just out of these elite squads and so didn’t qualify so we didn’t. Opening the practice areas and driving range for the school would not be a problem, even the holes we are not working on at the moment would be ok too.
		
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Not sure that this is 100% true.  One of our juniors is in the England Girls Elite squad - and so as you say - as an 'elite sports person' she is permitted to practice, but I think that that is limited to the practice grounds - I don't think she can play on the course - even if she saw any point in doing so.  Maybe it's down to the club and we decided best she didn't.


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not sure that this is 100% true.  One of our juniors is in the England Girls Elite squad - and so as you say - as an 'elite sports person' she is permitted to practice, but I think that that is limited to the practice grounds - I don't think she can play on the course - even if she saw any point in doing so.  Maybe it's down to the club and we decided best she didn't.
		
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Request came from EG to all Clubs - it was up to the clubs what or how much they would open for such players. It came to me as I am the Course Director and was asked what we could do if requested.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 22, 2021)

I don’t get elite sports person discussion.. They are not immune. Just another “some people are just more equal than others” .


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## nickjdavis (Feb 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			That is such a poorly structured report, no wonder they had zero success. Give me a few hours with powerpoint and I could easily turn the content into something that actually makes an impact.
		
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I was particularly impressed by the use of 7 year old data with respects to the spend benefits to the economy that golf brings!!!


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## DanFST (Feb 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			I don’t get elite sports person discussion.. They are not immune. Just another “some people are just more equal than others” .
		
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A few of my mates are in GB hockey. And are training as "usual". 

There's an Olympics coming up, if they don't train, they can't compete.


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## IanM (Feb 22, 2021)

If Boris allows golf from 29th March,  Drakeford will have to pick a different date for Wales to demonstrate he can!

Let's hope it's "earlier different!!"


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## harpo_72 (Feb 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			A few of my mates are in GB hockey. And are training as "usual".

There's an Olympics coming up, if they don't train, they can't compete.
		
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Who are they playing for? This is just light entertainment and dare I say it despite playing hockey to a reasonable level myself, I would choose to watch something else ... like myself play golf


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## IanM (Feb 22, 2021)

When I was at Hockey was always played by the weedy boys who couldn't play in the lowest rugby group.  By uni it seems to be played by nutters brandishing sticks!

Our club has a few "internationals" and they have been allowed to use the practice ground and short game area under "elite player" status.  Spoke to one at the weekend and she said she had hardly bothered as the weather was so bad


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## DanFST (Feb 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			Who are they playing for? This is just light entertainment and dare I say it despite playing hockey to a reasonable level myself, I would choose to watch something else ... like myself play golf
		
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Mostly Surbiton or Hampstead & Westminster. None of the club stuff is happening, even in the prem. But I think it's fair enough that team GB athletes can train right before an olympics.


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## jim8flog (Feb 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Playing golf is not the problem, as we know this is an extremely safe activity in terms of COVID transmission. However, what we have seen (me certainly) is that as soon as courses open there are people gathering socially for a beer and a chat and ignoring social distancing.

Golf clubs have fueled this behaviour with outdoor bars, marquees, patio heaters etc. The clubs are responding to demand from members so I don't blame them. It's just that there is always a minority that spoils it for the rest of us.
		
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 When we came out of lock down 1 all members were given 3 days to get anything they wanted out of their lockers before the changing room was locked up again. Play was in two balls only. All practice facilities were closed. The requirement was to only turn up at the course 10 minutes  before your tee time always park in every other parking space and and to leave as soon as you finished your round. 

Simple instructions but boy did quite a few ignore them.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 22, 2021)

DanFST said:



			Mostly Surbiton or Hampstead & Westminster. None of the club stuff is happening, even in the prem. But I think it's fair enough that team GB athletes can train right before an olympics.
		
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IMO The Olympics are just light entertainment they have lost any meaning of value .. who wants to sit at home and watch it .. we have been sat at home for a few months already... lock us all up or let us all out . Letting a select few out early and then passing it around just keeps us locked down longer. 
Oh and by the way isn’t the economic situation more important? Don’t we need all our industries up and running ( may be an Olympian effort) ?


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## jim8flog (Feb 22, 2021)

saving_par said:



			Not sure how they can be in peak condition without any grass growing....
		
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 Where I live I never stop mowing my lawn all year round. I get to walk past our nine hole course on the opposite side of the river and it is sure going to need a good trim.


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## harpo_72 (Feb 22, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			When we came out of lock down 1 all members were given 3 days to get anything they wanted out of their lockers before the changing room was locked up again. Play was in two balls only. All practice facilities were closed. The requirement was to only turn up at the course 10 minutes  before your tee time always park in every other parking space and and to leave as soon as you finished your round.

Simple instructions but boy did quite a few ignore them.
		
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They were policed at my club .. told to get a move on etc ..


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## jim8flog (Feb 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			They were policed at my club .. told to get a move on etc ..
		
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 During most of the time last year we had regular visits from the local police to ensure we were following the guidelines.

Once the bar and patio areas were open the biggest problems we had were were from some visiting societies who pushed all the tables together and ignored one way systems in place.


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

harpo_72 said:



			They were policed at my club .. told to get a move on etc ..
		
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Do you remember the shelter near the 10th tee at Ellesborough? 
The path narrows down there.
People congregated there for a chat and a coffee.
Sometimes it was difficult to get past.
Emails were sent, notices were put up, people were told....and they still did it, maybe not as blatantly but the were still there.
And then they moved to the car park near the shed.
Many people just did'nt/wouldn't listen.


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## Billysboots (Feb 22, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			During most of the time last year we had regular visits from the local police to ensure we were following the guidelines.

Once the bar and patio areas were open the biggest problems we had were were from some visiting societies who pushed all the tables together and ignored one way systems in place.
		
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I suspect by “policed” the meaning was by the club.

To be honest, we had some societies behave in a similar way to the one you describe. They were told in no uncertain terms by a number of members that their behaviour was unacceptable, and the club management have told them they will not be welcomed back.

Clubs really have to be proactive in how they approach all this. They can’t sit on their hands and simply watch members, visitors and society golfers thumb their noses and do as they please. It’s that sort of weakness which has contributed to the position we’re in.


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## Orikoru (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Do you remember the shelter near the 10th tee at Ellesborough?
The path narrows down there.
People congregated there for a chat and a coffee.
Sometimes it was difficult to get past.
Emails were sent, notices were put up, people were told....and they still did it, maybe not as blatantly but the were still there.
And then they moved to the car park near the shed.
Many people just did'nt/wouldn't listen.
		
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This really reminds me of kids smoking behind the bike sheds at school.  Daft.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 22, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			Where I live I never stop mowing my lawn all year round. I get to walk past our nine hole course on the opposite side of the river and it is sure going to need a good trim.
		
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Yesterday was the first time I had walked through the gate into my garden since late September. Swept a few leaves up but going to be a while before grass needs cutting. I reckon we are 4-5 weeks behind you with spring starting up here.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Do you remember the shelter near the 10th tee at Ellesborough?
The path narrows down there.
People congregated there for a chat and a coffee.
Sometimes it was difficult to get past.
Emails were sent, notices were put up, people were told....and they still did it, maybe not as blatantly but the were still there.
And then they moved to the car park near the shed.
Many people just did'nt/wouldn't listen.
		
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It happened at every club - people congregated in car parks , by halfway huts etc - it happened at our place as well , the senior swindle were caught upstairs pulling balls out a hat to then go out an play 

There will be lots of instances at every club where people ignore social distancing rules


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It happened at every club - people congregated in car parks , by halfway huts etc - it happened at our place as well , the senior swindle were caught upstairs pulling balls out a hat to then go out an play

There will be lots of instances at every club where people ignore social distancing rules
		
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Happened at a few clubs I know people at. Started well, you turned up, had 10 minutes to warm up then tee off then straight home after. Then people started to arrange these groups into whatsapp swindles and people started discussing the scores after the round, then takeaway food started and people would stand around chatting with a cuppa and a sandwich and that escalated to drinking beers in the car park with people taking it in turns to buy the case. Add to that 2 balls joining up as 4 balls after the first hole, splitting for the 9th then back together after the 10th green.


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## davidy233 (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It happened at every club - people congregated in car parks , by halfway huts etc - it happened at our place as well , the senior swindle were caught upstairs pulling balls out a hat to then go out an play

There will be lots of instances at every club where people ignore social distancing rules
		
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Apart from the first couple of weeks back (May/June last year) I've seen no social distancing at all around the golf course. 

Go up to the high street and nearly everyone walking along it will be wearing a mask - people standing face to face talking at the course/car park/starters box/outside clubhouse - never seen anyone with a mask on. It's just as well that you can't catch it outside


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## Yorkhacker (Feb 22, 2021)

Punxsutawney Boris emerged from his hole at 3.30pm, saw his shadow and declared 5 more weeks of winter


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## Hercules (Feb 22, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			So if people can walk round the countryside in pairs safely, what is the data that says waving a golf club around whilst you do it makes it dangerous? Genuinely, please produce it for us and put a whole bunch of people out of their misery.
		
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Part of the problem is that we have 'leader' with no common sense and a Sports minister with no sporting background!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It happened at every club - people congregated in car parks , by halfway huts etc - it happened at our place as well , the senior swindle were caught upstairs pulling balls out a hat to then go out an play

There will be lots of instances at every club where people ignore social distancing rules
		
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We must be more obedient. 

Apart from a couple of people chatting in the car park after their round we had no problems.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 22, 2021)

Hercules said:



			Part of the problem is that we have 'leader' with no common sense and a Sports minister with no sporting background!
		
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Look at posts 121# & 122# and there is a good reason we can't get back out there. Lots of golfers have no common sense and don't deserve any special treatment.....


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 22, 2021)

Hercules said:



			Part of the problem is that we have 'leader' with no common sense and a Sports minister with no sporting background!
		
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And an increasingly "entitled" population!


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## upsidedown (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			This is it, how often have greens staff had 3 months of uninterrupted access to the course and no footfall and damage caused by play to deal with.
		
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Alas in one of the wettest periods 9n record. I walked our course today with our HGK and there are fairways we can't get on as too wet. We will need 5 weeks of remarkable weather to be pristine in 5 weeks time 😕


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 22, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			We must be more obedient.

Apart from a couple of people chatting in the car park after their round we had no problems.
		
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Must admit I thought two ball golf was brilliant, walk up to nobody about, play and chat to my mate while walking round and then straight off home without seeing anyone. Golfing heaven.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2021)

saving_par said:



			Must admit I thought two ball golf was brilliant, walk up to nobody about, play and chat to my mate while walking round and then straight off home without seeing anyone. Golfing heaven.
		
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Unfortunately it restricts the numbers of people that can get tee times - you half your tee times available. 


MetalMickie said:



			We must be more obedient.

Apart from a couple of people chatting in the car park after their round we had no problems.
		
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Or as with most clubs it’s happened out of sight even for 5/10 mins - it’s just a natural reaction for people to have a chat and congregate


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Unfortunately it restricts the numbers of people that can get tee times - you half your tee times available.


Or as with most clubs it’s happened out of sight even for 5/10 mins - it’s just a natural reaction for people to have a chat and congregate
		
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Policed very actively and efficiently!


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

upsidedown said:



			Alas in one of the wettest periods 9n record. I walked our course today with our HGK and there are fairways we can't get on as too wet. We will need 5 weeks of remarkable weather to be pristine in 5 weeks time 😕
		
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This is going to be an issue for some places around here...lots of standing water in fields..


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## Hercules (Feb 22, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			And an increasingly "entitled" population!
		
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No not entitled just wanting not to prevented from enjoying exercise and sport without a logical reason!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 22, 2021)

Hercules said:



			No not entitled just wanting not to prevented from enjoying exercise and sport without a logical reason!
		
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Well it ain't gonna happen!

So no point in moaning about it as it clearly isn't going to change anything at this late stage.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			This is going to be an issue for some places around here...lots of standing water in fields..
		
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Yes talking to our GK he told me the drainage on the course is working fine!
It’s just where the water goes when it leaves the course the rivers and channels are full and in some instances the land drains actually bring water back onto the course the levels are so high.


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## banjofred (Feb 22, 2021)

MetalMickie said:



			Well it ain't gonna happen!

So no point in moaning about it as it clearly isn't going to change anything at this late stage.
		
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So......data driven action is just not relevant? 

I agree with your comment, but you are just sticking the pig to see if it squeals.


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## clubchamp98 (Feb 22, 2021)

Hercules said:



			No not entitled just wanting not to prevented from enjoying exercise and sport without a logical reason!
		
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If your looking for a logical reason from Boris you have a long wait.
Golf has been included with all am sport that’s just the way it is.
They are not going to let us play while stopping others imo.
It’s not logical but not surprising either.
I watched Ant and Dec on Saturday tv and this is the way people perceive golfers it was mildly amusing.
Sorry no link.


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## Crazyface (Feb 22, 2021)

Sad.


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## banjofred (Feb 22, 2021)

Crazyface said:



			Sad.

Click to expand...

Oh my God....I hadn't noticed you have one of my fav sayings.....not from Churchill though, but Galaxy Quest (great/bad movie)


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2021)

Well at least we have a date to look forward to now

It’s gives courses time to recover now , plus the better weather will help encourage growth and give the green staff time to prepare the course and finish any work off 

At least we go back straight into 4balls 

It’s another 5 weeks wait but it’s hopefully worth it 

I’m just hoping that it means the Opens at Royal North Devon and Saunton can still go  ahead 

It does seem strange that you can someone for coffee and a picnic though 🤷‍♂️


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## Orikoru (Feb 22, 2021)

davidy233 said:



			Apart from the first couple of weeks back (May/June last year) I've seen no social distancing at all around the golf course.

Go up to the high street and nearly everyone walking along it will be wearing a mask - people standing face to face talking at the course/car park/starters box/outside clubhouse - never seen anyone with a mask on. *It's just as well that you can't catch it outside* 

Click to expand...

This honestly seemed to be the attitude though. I mean they allowed 11-a-side grassroots football but told us we weren't allowed to use the changing rooms. Go figure.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 22, 2021)

Next up tomorrow is what Nicola will allow. I'm hoping that she will want to upstage Boris and my Scottish golfing trip in early / mid April will go ahead 😁. I'm not sure what a hopeful / desperate emoji looks like so I just went with a smile.


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## davemc1 (Feb 22, 2021)

What are the dates/restrictions for cross border golfing trips ie England-Scotland? 

And even more locally, county to county?


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## davemc1 (Feb 22, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Next up tomorrow is what Nicola will allow. I'm hoping that she will want to upstage Boris and my Scottish golfing trip in early / mid April will go ahead 😁. I'm not sure what a hopeful / desperate emoji looks like so I just went with a smile.
		
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We appear to be of the same mind 👍🏻


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## nickjdavis (Feb 22, 2021)

D-S said:



			Request came from EG to all Clubs - it was up to the clubs what or how much they would open for such players. It came to me as I am the Course Director and was asked what we could do if requested.
		
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We had a young girl come and practice on our course during lockdown ahead of playing in the US Open.


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## sunshine (Feb 22, 2021)

IanM said:



			Our club has a few "internationals" and they have been allowed to use the practice ground and short game area under "elite player" status. Spoke to one at the weekend and *she said she had hardly bothered as the weather was so bad*

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I'm guessing her career will be short if she doesn't bother practising when the weather is bad. In the UK that is half the year!


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## Billysboots (Feb 22, 2021)

davemc1 said:



			What are the dates/restrictions for cross border golfing trips ie England-Scotland?

And even more locally, county to county?
		
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I would say cross county travel from 29 March. Although the advice still appears to be to stay local, the stay at home order will no longer be law from that date, which would tend to infer that, whilst travelling within England may still be frowned upon, it won’t be illegal.


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## IanM (Feb 22, 2021)

Well we're talking about 2 weeks after the Politburo relebtee



Lord Tyrion said:



			Next up tomorrow is what Nicola will allow. I'm hoping that she will want to upstage Boris and my Scottish golfing trip in early / mid April will go ahead 😁. I'm not sure what a hopeful / desperate emoji looks like so I just went with a smile.
		
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I'm sure the Welsh FMs decision will also  be more about "look at me, I'm important!" than anything else.  Daft,  but hopefully he'll allow golf ealier to make a point... but it deffo won't be the same day.

  His next dictat is 12th March.


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At least we go back straight into 4balls
		
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Looks to me like Rule of 6 and 2 households.?.
That's going to mean 2 balls unless you've got 3 or 4 players in the same house


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

I am sincerely looking forward to the apologies from England Golf admitting that all their petitions, letters and lobbying Government on behalf of golf have been a total and abject failure. Golf has slipped further down the priority list (it is opening now at the same time as contact sports and a mere 2 weeks before non essential retail vs 6 weeks in lockdown 1). All their updates , briefings and press releases have produced nothing but false hope and empty promises. Shocking waste of time, money and effort.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 22, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I'm guessing her career will be short if she doesn't bother practising when the weather is bad. In the UK that is half the year! 

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Sometimes having ambitions to succeed in golf can be a bit tough...


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Looks to me like Rule of 6 and 2 households.?.
That's going to mean 2 balls unless you've got 3 or 4 players in the same house
		
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It’s rule of 6 or two households going above 6 👍


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s rule of 6 or two households going above 6 👍
		
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Just reread it..


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## Billysboots (Feb 22, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Looks to me like Rule of 6 and 2 households.?.
That's going to mean 2 balls unless you've got 3 or 4 players in the same house
		
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I thought it was rule of six OR two households.

EDIT: Sorry, I’ve then read on!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2021)




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## C&R (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well at least we have a date to look forward to now

It’s gives courses time to recover now , plus the better weather will help encourage growth and give the green staff time to prepare the course and finish any work off

At least we go back straight into 4balls

It’s another 5 weeks wait but it’s hopefully worth it

I’m just hoping that it means the Opens at Royal North Devon and Saunton can still go  ahead

It does seem strange that you can someone for coffee and a picnic though 🤷‍♂️
		
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I agree 100%☝️


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## SteveW86 (Feb 22, 2021)

With the weather we have had I’m actually quite glad we aren’t allowed to play until the end of March, all the good the courses would have had from no traffic since the start of January would have been ruined. Hopefully we will have a dryish March and golf will be pleasant when we return.


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## SaintHacker (Feb 22, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			With the weather we have had I’m actually quite glad we aren’t allowed to play until the end of March, all the good the courses would have had from no traffic since the start of January would have been ruined. Hopefully we will have a dryish March and golf will be pleasant when we return.
		
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6 7 and 9 are going to be underwater for a while yet, and the 11th and 17th greens will be outof play as well so not missing a great deal at the moment


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## SteveW86 (Feb 22, 2021)

SaintHacker said:



			6 7 and 9 are going to be underwater for a while yet, and the 11th and 17th greens will be outof play as well so not missing a great deal at the moment
		
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Was a timely email from the club today regarding subscriptions 😂


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## howbow88 (Feb 22, 2021)

Golf is considered as dangerous/safe as rugby?! WTF


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## Beezerk (Feb 22, 2021)

I have that whole week booked off work  
I imagine it be fastest finger first come midnight on the BRS app


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 22, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			With the weather we have had I’m actually quite glad we aren’t allowed to play until the end of March, all the good the courses would have had from no traffic since the start of January would have been ruined. Hopefully we will have a dryish March and golf will be pleasant when we return.
		
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Unless you course is on chalk and has been perfectly playable right through.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 22, 2021)

Beezerk said:



			I have that whole week booked off work 
I imagine it be fastest finger first come midnight on the BRS app 

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I can't book any time off around then because work introduces a new system and leave will not be granted.  Ho hum


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2021)

howbow88 said:



			Golf is considered as dangerous/safe as rugby?! WTF
		
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No golf is considered an outdoor sport in the same way that my local little village  pub is classed in the same bracket as a massive city centre weatherspoons.


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## 5OTT (Feb 22, 2021)

Deep down I know the extension of this lockdown to the 29th is a small price to pay but I was really hoping we would be back in a fortnight.


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## Robobum (Feb 22, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well at least we have a date to look forward to now

It’s gives courses time to recover now , plus the better weather will help encourage growth and give the green staff time to prepare the course and finish any work off

At least we go back straight into 4balls

It’s another 5 weeks wait but it’s hopefully worth it

I’m just hoping that it means the Opens at Royal North Devon and Saunton can still go  ahead

It does seem strange that you can someone for coffee and a picnic though 🤷‍♂️
		
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What a load of rubbish! First swing back, topped into the stream at RND 😫
Then 5 off the tee after littering the driving range at Saunton West 😫😫

That is going to be a horror show that weekend 😂😂🥴🥴


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 22, 2021)

Robobum said:



			What a load of rubbish! First swing back, topped into the stream at RND 😫
Then 5 off the tee after littering the driving range at Saunton West 😫😫

That is going to be a horror show that weekend 😂😂🥴🥴
		
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Won’t be able to go mate 😢 no overnight stays 

Will just have to duck hook my first into our car park


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## redbrownie (Feb 22, 2021)

I can't wait to slice my first drive onto the 2nd fairway on 29th March.


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## GolfingPastor (Feb 22, 2021)

Anyone know when driving ranges are back open?


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## Boomy (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			No golf is considered an outdoor sport in the same way that my local little village  pub is classed in the same bracket as a massive city centre weatherspoons.
		
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It will be like a rugby scrum once the BRS booking systems open up 💥


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## Imurg (Feb 22, 2021)

GolfingPastor said:



			Anyone know when driving ranges are back open?
		
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I suspect it will be the same day the courses open


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2021)

Boomy said:



			It will be like a rugby scrum once the BRS booking systems open up 💥
		
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Suspect clubs are already getting bombarded with calls and emails for bookings, especially for the Easter weekend


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## Boomy (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Suspect clubs are already getting bombarded with calls and emails for bookings, especially for the Easter weekend
		
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Agreed, I would say a few pro’s will have been getting bombarded with requests for tee times! Hopefully it’ll be 4 balls 🤞🏼


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## HeftyHacker (Feb 22, 2021)

Our  local driving range is preparing itself for the 29th 🤣


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 22, 2021)

Boomy said:



			Agreed, I would say a few pro’s will have been getting bombarded with requests for tee times! Hopefully it’ll be 4 balls 🤞🏼
		
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Won’t be like that at our place as pros won’t be booking tee times for anyone.  I’m guessing our tee booking system will open a week in advance and there will be restrictions for an initial period on the number of rounds an individual will be able to play in a rolling window of a week.  Also as before I expect that empty slots will be bookable on the day in addition to the one you might already have booked.


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## Boomy (Feb 22, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Won’t be like that at our place as pros won’t be booking tee times for anyone.  I’m guessing our tee booking system will open a week in advance and there will be restrictions for an initial period on the number of rounds an individual will be able to play in a rolling window of a week.  Also as before I expect that empty slots will be bookable on the day in addition to the one you might already have booked.
		
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Indeed, that sounds exactly like how it will be at where I play as well.


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## howbow88 (Feb 22, 2021)

GB72 said:



			No golf is considered an outdoor sport in the same way that my local little village  pub is classed in the same bracket as a massive city centre weatherspoons.
		
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They are both pubs. They are both establishments where alcoholic beverages are served, often along with food.

Rugby involves 30 blokes chasing after a ball in a confined space, clattering into each other as part of the process. Other than being outside, there is very little in common with rugby and golf. And when it comes to covid, they are even further apart.

I just can't quite believe that both sports are opening at the same time. It's not so much the lateness of the opening of golf; more how early rugby is being opened. How does it make sense that I can't go and physically touch relatives, but I could join in a scrum with 15 other blokes?! Madness.


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## D-S (Feb 22, 2021)

Statement from BIGGA:-
https://www.bigga.org.uk/news-listi...BbDbYbiK9INyGvXUcaYFMLvGK1l9LGEt3_pYITDaF1hvo


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## GB72 (Feb 22, 2021)

howbow88 said:



			They are both pubs. They are both establishments where alcoholic beverages are served, often along with food.

Rugby involves 30 blokes chasing after a ball in a confined space, clattering into each other as part of the process. Other than being outside, there is very little in common with rugby and golf. And when it comes to covid, they are even further apart.

I just can't quite believe that both sports are opening at the same time. It's not so much the lateness of the opening of golf; more how early rugby is being opened. How does it make sense that I can't go and physically touch relatives, but I could join in a scrum with 15 other blokes?! Madness.
		
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Depends how much you know about rugby training and what stage of the long established back to rugby covid protocols they are starting at. Rugby clubs have rules and procedures to remain covid safe same as golf.  Believe it or not they may not be going back to full contact training or playing and, in fact, the season at amateur level is already cancelled and would have ended soon anyway. It will probably be mainly strength and conditioning for next season all outdoors. When I played there were weeks if training before I got near a scrum machine let alone a real scrum

Irrespective, what my analogy meant is that there are many different risks within various categories. Golf is an outdoor sport in the same way that a local pub is part of the hospitality industry. Both pose significantly different risks to other elements in the group but follow the overall rules and restrictions.

In any event, I choose to celebrate each area that is released from restrictions (see current Twitter argument with a gym owner decrying posh sports of golf and tennis being allowed whereas his affordable gyms stay closed) rather than denigrate them because I am not allowed to do what I want.


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## Parky24 (Feb 22, 2021)

29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart


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## Paperboy (Feb 23, 2021)

Blue in Munich said:



			Unless you course is on chalk and has been perfectly playable right through. 

Click to expand...

Yep same here


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## ExRabbit (Feb 23, 2021)

Parky24 said:



			29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart
		
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Is your glass always half empty?



Edit:

mm - thought I remembered something - looked back to this thread.

https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/abusive-call-through.102868/

Post #34 on - possible troll alert.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Feb 23, 2021)

Parky24 said:



			29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart
		
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Bummer isn't it. Still, at least you are alive and well. Thousands aren't.


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## howbow88 (Feb 23, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Depends how much you know about rugby training and what stage of the long established back to rugby covid protocols they are starting at. Rugby clubs have rules and procedures to remain covid safe same as golf.  Believe it or not they may not be going back to full contact training or playing and, in fact, the season at amateur level is already cancelled and would have ended soon anyway. It will probably be mainly strength and conditioning for next season all outdoors. When I played there were weeks if training before I got near a scrum machine let alone a real scrum

Irrespective, what my analogy meant is that there are many different risks within various categories. Golf is an outdoor sport in the same way that a local pub is part of the hospitality industry. Both pose significantly different risks to other elements in the group but follow the overall rules and restrictions.

In any event, I choose to celebrate each area that is released from restrictions (see current Twitter argument with a gym owner decrying posh sports of golf and tennis being allowed whereas his affordable gyms stay closed) rather than denigrate them because I am not allowed to do what I want.
		
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It's not about denigrating anything 

If rugby isn't going to involve physical contact until much later, fair enough. But I have had a quick look and there appears to be nothing out there saying this will be the case. 

I understood your analogy, I just don't think it comes near the same scale as comparing rugby and golf.


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## RichA (Feb 23, 2021)

"Boris will let us play golf on March 29"
Looking forward to getting back on the course, but probably won't be until the 30th. 29th will also be the first time in over 3 months I'll be allowed to visit my elderly father up north for a socially distanced cup of coffee in the garden. 
As much as I've missed my hobby, it doesn't seem particularly outrageous to me that golf wasn't prioritised over reuniting families.
My anecdotal data suggests that 94% of the population don't play golf. Most have families members they quite like.


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## Orikoru (Feb 23, 2021)

Parky24 said:



			29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart
		
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How do you figure that out? Roll ups will just return as soon as they're allowed. The bars will open as soon as they're allowed. The practise of shaking hands may not come back but who cares about that? That's not important. A fist bump or a nod means the same thing.


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## Boomy (Feb 23, 2021)

Parky24 said:



			29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart
		
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I'm a bit confused as to how "this government" has destroyed golf and ended all the things you list?  The government is trying to manage a pandemic and get us back to all of the things we love doing, see all of the people we love to see and just get us back to some normality in general. Thanks to the work of the government (and yes I know at times their decisions don't agree with us all) the scientists and all of the other key people working through this we are hopefully on track to get back to the majority of things we have had to suspend doing...


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## Yorkhacker (Feb 23, 2021)

Parky24 said:



			29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart
		
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I take it you'll be selling your clubs and finding a new hobby if that's how you feel


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## GB72 (Feb 23, 2021)

howbow88 said:



			It's not about denigrating anything 

If rugby isn't going to involve physical contact until much later, fair enough. But I have had a quick look and there appears to be nothing out there saying this will be the case.

I understood your analogy, I just don't think it comes near the same scale as comparing rugby and golf.
		
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Apologies but I see any argument of 'why can they do that when I cannot do this' as an argument against something being permitted (which has to be the case unless you are saying that hugging people should now be fully permitted). If you are arguing that the new roadmap is too strict and full personal contact should be allowed from day 1 then that is different (and I disagree with that)

In any event, rugby training starts as pairs only and does not allow any form of face to face training until about stage 3 or 4 and that is limited. Most of last year was spent in the first stage which is just exercising in pairs. There are similarities, a high risk activity and a low risk one both subject to the same rules within a wider national definition.


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## SteveJay (Feb 23, 2021)

Don't agree with all Parky said, but I do wonder if roll ups will be a thing of the past at many clubs.

We introduced a booking system, like many clubs, as part of the cover measures. I think that's here to stay so can't see how a block booking to cater for roll ups will be viable or permitted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2021)

SteveJay said:



			Don't agree with all Parky said, but I do wonder if roll ups will be a thing of the past at many clubs.

We introduced a booking system, like many clubs, as part of the cover measures. I think that's here to stay so can't see how a block booking to cater for roll ups will be viable or permitted.
		
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Rolls ups can still be incorporated within a booking system 

Currently at the moment we do a “virtual roll up”

I get the names - do a draw and then we book the times - at the moment we turn up and then go home after 

But when things are eased a little we will prob all turn up before the first tee - have a chat and a coffee , go out and play , then finish with a drink in the bar 

I’m not sure if we will keep tee times as there are positives and negatives about it - it will be interesting to see what the members think , older established members want to get rid of it - the newer younger ones want to keep it - dilemma time


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## Ridgeman (Feb 23, 2021)

Boomy said:



			I'm a bit confused as to how "this government" has destroyed golf and ended all the things you list?  The government is trying to manage a pandemic and get us back to all of the things we love doing, see all of the people we love to see and just get us back to some normality in general. Thanks to the work of the government (and yes I know at times their decisions don't agree with us all) the scientists and all of the other key people working through this we are hopefully on track to get back to the majority of things we have had to suspend doing...
		
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I think the issue is that golf has been handled differently this time in different parts of the country.  In Scotland during the latest lockdown golf was still allowed to be played.  The weather on the other hand put a stop to that.  We only started getting out again last week.  Its a maximum of 2 people per tee time.  I know it was suggested earlier that in some way this was Nicola trying to outdo Boris in someway but the reality is she normally errs on the side of caution.  Our lockdowns in Scotland have tended to be far quicker in coming and far slower in being relaxed.  

All roadmaps to getting out of this will be littered with errors in hindsight.  At the moment ours seems to have worked better than elsewhere in that the numbers have been less for sometime.  However, equally, the nursing home issue in the first lockdown was handled very badly.  Stopping the game of golf I don't understand.  Playing golf on a golf course is probably safer than walking round a golf coure together.  You spend more time apart while playing.  However, the other non-playing parts of golf are far more challenging.  The locker rooms, indoor areas etc.  Those for us are still closed and I have no doubt will be for a couple of months more.

If all this is being decided by science and scientists then I can only think our Scottish scientists are golfers in whatever spare time they have.


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## Imurg (Feb 23, 2021)

SteveJay said:



			Don't agree with all Parky said, but I do wonder if roll ups will be a thing of the past at many clubs.

We introduced a booking system, like many clubs, as part of the cover measures. I think that's here to stay so can't see how a block booking to cater for roll ups will be viable or permitted.
		
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We've never been a "booking" club apart from Sunday mornings and another time which escapes me at the moment.
Obviously with Covid we became a full booking club as did everyone.
Many like it, some don't.
The constitution of the club says we will revert to non booking as soon as possible but I have a feeling a EGM may be called and it put to a vote.
Personally, I like both systems but I'd vote to stay with a booking system.


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## banjofred (Feb 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rolls ups can still be incorporated within a booking system

Currently at the moment we do a “virtual roll up”

I get the names - do a draw and then we book the times - at the moment we turn up and then go home after

But when things are eased a little we will prob all turn up before the first tee - have a chat and a coffee , go out and play , then finish with a drink in the bar

I’m not sure if we will keep tee times as there are positives and negatives about it - it will be interesting to see what the members think , older established members want to get rid of it - the newer younger ones want to keep it - dilemma time
		
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Same at our place. We had times blocked out for roll ups, couple of hours for the ladies on Tues mornings, Medals etc etc.....easy enough for them to do if they want.


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## r0wly86 (Feb 23, 2021)

howbow88 said:



			Golf is considered as dangerous/safe as rugby?! WTF
		
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As a rugby player who does a lot of organising for the club

Rugby may be back but it won't be on the full sense. After last lock down it was done in stages.

Stage 1 - could do fitness straining, no equipment in groups of no more than 6
Stage 2 - still groups of 6 but can introduce minimal equipment such as a ball, but needs to be regularly sanitised
Stage 3 - Groups of 10, can play touch rugby, no contact
Stage 4 - Groups of 20, again no contact, but can do some set piece work like lineouts, but only for 15 minutes
Stage 5 - still groups of 20 but can now do contact, limited to 15 minutes

all of which, happened with a register of names being taken with contact details, temperatures etc so if anyone got ill we could contact everyone else so they could isolate

Rugby may be back on 29, though I am skeptical, but it will start as something very light


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## howbow88 (Feb 23, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Apologies but I see any argument of 'why can they do that when I cannot do this' as an argument against something being permitted (which has to be the case unless you are saying that hugging people should now be fully permitted). If you are arguing that the new roadmap is too strict and full personal contact should be allowed from day 1 then that is different (and I disagree with that)

In any event, rugby training starts as pairs only and does not allow any form of face to face training until about stage 3 or 4 and that is limited. Most of last year was spent in the first stage which is just exercising in pairs. There are similarities, a high risk activity and a low risk one both subject to the same rules within a wider national definition.
		
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Fair enough if rugby is effectively not going to be rugby, and more just exercises in the build up to rugby being allowed.

I think you're either not understanding what I am saying or not reading it properly. It really doesn't matter though - I think this roadmap thing is a good idea, not too strict and not overly lenient either. But there are most definitely some strange anomalies there, such as being allowed to meet someone outside for a coffee, but no golf.


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## Crumplezone (Feb 23, 2021)

Parky24 said:



			29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart
		
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I don't care about any of those things as long as I get to hit some balls round a field with some sticks.


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## GB72 (Feb 23, 2021)

r0wly86 said:



			As a rugby player who does a lot of organising for the club

Rugby may be back but it won't be on the full sense. After last lock down it was done in stages.

Stage 1 - could do fitness straining, no equipment in groups of no more than 6
Stage 2 - still groups of 6 but can introduce minimal equipment such as a ball, but needs to be regularly sanitised
Stage 3 - Groups of 10, can play touch rugby, no contact
Stage 4 - Groups of 20, again no contact, but can do some set piece work like lineouts, but only for 15 minutes
Stage 5 - still groups of 20 but can now do contact, limited to 15 minutes

all of which, happened with a register of names being taken with contact details, temperatures etc so if anyone got ill we could contact everyone else so they could isolate

Rugby may be back on 29, though I am skeptical, but it will start as something very light
		
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Other than to get players together or to start a very long pre season and work off some of the rust, I cannot see much point in starting rugby up again so late in the current season. Guess that may allow the championship to start up again.


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## RichA (Feb 23, 2021)

r0wly86 said:



			...all of which, happened with a register of names being taken with contact details, temperatures etc so if anyone got ill we could contact everyone else so they could isolate...
		
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For particular activities that require multiple staff in an enclosed space for a prolonged period, my employer has introduced Lateral Flow Testing. It takes less than half an hour and is supposed to be reliable. Would probably be useful for organised sport training and competition, although I have no idea of cost.


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## r0wly86 (Feb 23, 2021)

GB72 said:



			Other than to get players together or to start a very long pre season and work off some of the rust, I cannot see much point in starting rugby up again so late in the current season. Guess that may allow the championship to start up again.
		
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That's a completely different and valid question. I don't think any leagues are starting. For community teams like ours it is more for the social aspect of being able to meet up with your team mates, which we have basically lost for a whole year


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## r0wly86 (Feb 23, 2021)

RichA said:



			For particular activities that require multiple staff in an enclosed space for a prolonged period, my employer has introduced Lateral Flow Testing. It takes less than half an hour and is supposed to be reliable. Would probably be useful for organised sport training and competition, although I have no idea of cost.
		
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It was a one in one out into a large shed outdoors. temperature taken by infrared thermometer, not perfect by any means, but would have kept the transmission down considerably


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## GB72 (Feb 23, 2021)

r0wly86 said:



			That's a completely different and valid question. I don't think any leagues are starting. For community teams like ours it is more for the social aspect of being able to meet up with your team mates, which we have basically lost for a whole year
		
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I agree and that is important, still miss meeting up with the team even 10 years after I had to stop playing.


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## jim8flog (Feb 23, 2021)

29th March - now I have two fingers and my legs crossed. My birthday is around that date and I know it takes more than the digits on two hands to count the number of times it has snowed on my birthday.


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## Bdill93 (Feb 23, 2021)

Golf reopens and I get 2 weeks off to enjoy being back playing. That'll be 2 weeks of playing golf all day, every day then! (Seriously - easy 15 rounds)

Try and tell me working in a school isnt genius!


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## jim8flog (Feb 23, 2021)

RichA said:



			For particular activities that require multiple staff in an enclosed space for a prolonged period, my employer has introduced Lateral Flow Testing. It takes less than half an hour and is supposed to be reliable. Would probably be useful for organised sport training and competition, although I have no idea of cost.
		
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https://ukwholesales.co.uk/covid-19...gJwniOhPzp8BMx46OCbYWgpmVLPw4r7MaAtU-EALw_wcB

There have been reports that of a quite a few false positives which will then require a 'standard' test.

*Lloyds Pharmacy *

You can get a swab test to confirm whether or not you currently have COVID-19 from Lloyds Pharmacy for £110 (down from £119), which is suitable for those aged 18 or over.


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## Billysboots (Feb 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Rolls ups can still be incorporated within a booking system

Currently at the moment we do a “virtual roll up”

I get the names - do a draw and then we book the times - at the moment we turn up and then go home after

But when things are eased a little we will prob all turn up before the first tee - have a chat and a coffee , go out and play , then finish with a drink in the bar

I’m not sure if we will keep tee times as there are positives and negatives about it - it will be interesting to see what the members think , older established members want to get rid of it - the newer younger ones want to keep it - dilemma time
		
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We were doing things in a similar way. 

We have half a dozen tee times allocated by the club every Saturday when no comp is on. I collate names a week in advance, they pay their entry fee via online banking, I draw individual times and email the club.

After their round everyone WhatsApp’s their card to me, and I send out the results, with winnings paid online. Simple. Not a roll up in the strictest sense, but the next best thing.


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## sunshine (Feb 23, 2021)

Parky24 said:



			29th March whoopee do...golf is and has been destroyed by this government. No roll ups likely to ever be run again. No standing at the bar with a beer after a round. No swapping cards before a round of golf. Crappy bunkers with no rakes. No hearing the sound of a putt going into a hole without a flag. No handshakes before and after games. No trying out friends clubs. The list goes on. I don't care when it comes back as it's already long gone in my mind and heart
		
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"Golf has been destroyed by this government" 

Boris on a crusade to rid the world of golf. None of us will ever stand at the bar with a beer again. It's all a big conspiracy theory. Comedy gold.


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## sunshine (Feb 23, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Currently at the moment we do a “virtual roll up”

I get the names - do a draw and then we book the times - at the moment we turn up and then go home after

But when things are eased a little we will prob all turn up before the first tee - have a chat and a coffee , go out and play , then finish with a drink in the bar
		
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I had to double check that this was written today and not last year. This reads like you have been breaching lockdown to continue playing golf


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## The Autumn Wind (Feb 23, 2021)

JonnyGutteridge said:



			Who is ultimately responsible for failing us?

England Golf have put out plenty of strongly worded open letters, but are they in the ear of the Minister for Sport enough to be heard?

Does the minister for Sport not listen to England Golf? Does he not look to the facts and look at the data?

The Angling Trust managed to be heard... they made their case and the government listened. Why has golf not been able to receive the same representation?
		
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This is a really good point. During lockdown walks, I've been amazed to see rowing boats and sailing boats out daily on one of the large lakes near me, with multiple occupants, all using shared equipment. On checking my facts before reporting it as a blatant breach of lockdown, I discovered that the national sailing and boating authorities had managed to negotiate that it was classified as essential exercise, and therefore the facilities could remain open. Which astonished me, but the police confirmed it.

So yeah, it wasn't a blanket lockdown of all amateur sports, and some sporting organisations were more successful in arguing their case than others.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 23, 2021)

The Autumn Wind said:



			This is a really good point. During lockdown walks, I've been amazed to see rowing boats and sailing boats out daily on one of the large lakes near me, with multiple occupants, all using shared equipment. On checking my facts before reporting it as a blatant breach of lockdown, I discovered that the national sailing and boating authorities had managed to negotiate that it was classified as essential exercise, and therefore the facilities could remain open. Which astonished me, but the police confirmed it.

So yeah, it wasn't a blanket lockdown of all amateur sports, and some sporting organisations were more successful in arguing their case than others.
		
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Eton has a very good Sailing Club and Rowing team, their Golf Course is mainly used by the Staff.


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## The Autumn Wind (Feb 23, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Eton has a very good Sailing Club and Rowing team, their Golf Course is mainly used by the Staff.

Click to expand...

We had a school golf team, but not our own course on school grounds. Reigate Heath GC was our course for home matches. Lovely little 9 hole heathland course in Surrey. I must go back and replay it, haven't played there for 33 years.


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## backwoodsman (Feb 23, 2021)

sunshine said:



			I had to double check that this was written today and not last year. This reads like you have been breaching lockdown to continue playing golf 

Click to expand...

In which case, i think you need to read it again.


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## drdel (Feb 23, 2021)

I'm just pleased Boris says I can play golf òn 29th: I've been trying for 50 years so finally being able to play will be a bonus.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2021)

I have spent time this morning sorting out the tee booking rules and configs

I can already see people logging in looking at the tee sheets 😂


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## Harley-D (Feb 23, 2021)

Interesting thread. So much so I registered!
I too am very disappointed that another five weeks will pass before I am allowed to play. I thought/hoped it might be the 8th. I can see all the arguments for opening sooner, or for not closing in the first place. But I can also see that they want to keep it simple and avoid most of the messy nonsense of tiers and substantial meals, etc which just made them look embarrassing. However, I do think England Golf have been weak and I for one would like the choice of who represents my interests in future.


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## pauljames87 (Feb 23, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			How do you figure that out? Roll ups will just return as soon as they're allowed. The bars will open as soon as they're allowed. The practise of shaking hands may not come back but who cares about that? That's not important. A fist bump or a nod means the same thing.
		
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Oh ffs I hope handshakes are gone for good

Dates back from medieval times where you shook hands to show you weren't reaching for your sword

Little fist pump is so much more 2021


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## banjofred (Feb 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh ffs I hope handshakes are gone for good

Dates back from medieval times where you shook hands to show you weren't reaching for your sword

Little fist pump is so much more 2021
		
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I don't mind the handshake at the very end. At times however.....it gets silly. There have been times when I've had to shake hands 3 times in the last 3 holes or so (decider on total score,  and back 9 score, and then just *because* after the 18th). Before we quit again, most people were just doing a putter head tap at the end......that's good enough for me. One guy I've talked into just bowing.....I like it.


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## Orikoru (Feb 23, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh ffs I hope handshakes are gone for good

Dates back from medieval times where you shook hands to show you weren't reaching for your sword

Little fist pump is so much more 2021
		
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I'm with you. Handshakes won't be missed. Reminds me of a job interview.


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## Imurg (Feb 23, 2021)

Traminator said:



			All seems a bit bizarre, you play golf for 4 hours, probably go for at least one pee each in between getting all sorts of dirt and chemicals on your hands, then firmly press your palms together at the end... 😅

Happy with fist bumps from now on.
		
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Some of us, at least, can go without going...so to speak.....


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 23, 2021)

Traminator said:



			All seems a bit bizarre, you play golf for 4 hours, probably go for at least one pee each in between getting all sorts of dirt and chemicals on your hands, then firmly press your palms together at the end... 😅

Happy with fist bumps from now on.
		
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Didn't the Navy teach you not to pee over your fingers?


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## rosecott (Feb 23, 2021)

Traminator said:



			No that's just for officers...
		
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I've always understood that naval officers had ratings to do that kind of things for them.


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## GuyInLyon (Feb 23, 2021)

You actually believe what Boris tell you?


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## chrisd (Feb 23, 2021)

Traminator said:



			No idea, but at least it's legal now...
		
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 But not compulsory?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 23, 2021)

Traminator said:



			No idea, but at least it's legal now...
		
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Always was in the Navy 😁


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## sunshine (Feb 24, 2021)

pauljames87 said:



			Oh ffs I hope handshakes are gone for good

Dates back from medieval times where you shook hands to show you weren't reaching for your sword

Little fist pump is so much more 2021
		
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Maybe this approach, which has been going 30 years:
Fresh Prince - Will Jazz Handshake Compilation - YouTube


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## 4LEX (Feb 24, 2021)

As predicted in the other thread, a ridiculously late date to open golf up.

Golf clubs don't want to open up with a load of two ball hassle. They'd rather pocket the members fees, wring every inch of the furlough and open in a new membershipship year essentially. Blame BoJo but the golf clubs themselves have been very quiet in all this, it's only a token effort by England Golf that was put forward.

But in spite of the unfairness and laughable double standards of it all, I'm going to sit it out and wait. The roadmap is more generous than I expected overall and what's 3 weeks in life? Roll on March 29th


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## sunshine (Feb 25, 2021)

4LEX said:



			As predicted in the other thread, a ridiculously late date to open golf up.

Golf clubs don't want to open up with a load of two ball hassle. They'd rather pocket the members fees, wring every inch of the furlough and open in a new membershipship year essentially. Blame BoJo but the golf clubs themselves have been very quiet in all this, it's only a token effort by England Golf that was put forward.

But in spite of the unfairness and laughable double standards of it all, I'm going to sit it out and wait. The roadmap is more generous than I expected overall and what's 3 weeks in life? Roll on March 29th 

Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to criticise individual golf clubs, I believe that they should be seen to comply with the government guidelines and regulations.

However, I agree with you that England Golf could have done better, and done more. I saw the parliamentary debate on golf, the pro golf speakers just delivered a series of sob stories and nothing constructive.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 25, 2021)

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/golf-courses-reopening-march-29-wait-good-thing/

It’s a Fair point


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## pauljames87 (Feb 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/golf-courses-reopening-march-29-wait-good-thing/

It’s a Fair point
		
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I was hoping the 8th just for people to get 2 balls and get it out their system and by 29th it will have calmed down and be not as manic


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## sunshine (Feb 25, 2021)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/golf-courses-reopening-march-29-wait-good-thing/

It’s a Fair point
		
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Sorry I can't agree with any of this. What a waffly and poorly thought through article. Very unimpressed by the "journalism".

Furlough:
If a course has furloughed all staff they won't be bringing them back now to do 5 weeks work they will bring them back closer to 29 March. 8 March allowed 2 full weeks notice which was way more than last year. Add to that the fact that many courses have kept on the greens team this time.

Getting the course ready for summer:
What's he on about? Golf courses in this country are open all year every year. Every year the staff undertake work to prepare for the main season. Unless he's proposing all courses shut every winter he has no argument. Members are currently paying for a course that is playable but closed.

No revenue / funding:
Courses receive very little income from visitors and societies in Jan and Feb so minimal lost revenue. Membership subscriptions are still being charged and collected so no impact. It does of course affect pay and play courses.


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## hovis (Feb 25, 2021)

sunshine said:



			Sorry I can't agree with any of this. What a waffly and poorly thought through article. Very unimpressed by the "journalism".

Furlough:
If a course has furloughed all staff they won't be bringing them back now to do 5 weeks work they will bring them back closer to 29 March. 8 March allowed 2 full weeks notice which was way more than last year. Add to that the fact that many courses have kept on the greens team this time.

Getting the course ready for summer:
What's he on about? Golf courses in this country are open all year every year. Every year the staff undertake work to prepare for the main season. Unless he's proposing all courses shut every winter he has no argument. Members are currently paying for a course that is playable but closed.

No revenue / funding:
Courses receive very little income from visitors and societies in Jan and Feb so minimal lost revenue. Membership subscriptions are still being charged and collected so no impact. It does of course affect pay and play courses.
		
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You've saved me from writing all this myself


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