# British & Irish Lions Tour 2017



## Liverpoolphil (Apr 17, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39624348

So it seems that a couple of journos are saying that the squad is being leaked

Joseph and Launchbury IMO should be in the squad 

No surprise if Hartley doesnt get picked as he isnt even the best hooker in England

If i would to go for the starting 15 right now at a guess i would go 

1. Furlong
2. Best
3. Vunipola
4. Itodje
5. Kruis
6. O Brien
7. Stander
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Hogg


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## GB72 (Apr 17, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

This is Gatland that we are talking about so strong Welsh presence is going to be guaranteed irrespective of form. Expect AWJ in the second row, Warburton on the flank if fit and would not be shocked to see Faletau. North not worth a start but will get one and Davies is not who I would pick but sounds like Joseph is not going to be on the plane. Sadly we are going to lose all 3 tests


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## Val (Apr 17, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



GB72 said:



			This is Gatland that we are talking about so strong Welsh presence is going to be guaranteed irrespective of form. Expect AWJ in the second row, Warburton on the flank if fit and would not be shocked to see Faletau. North not worth a start but will get one and Davies is not who I would pick but sounds like Joseph is not going to be on the plane. Sadly we are going to lose all 3 tests
		
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Agreed. I also don't get the hype for Rory best, he's no better than Hartley. I also believe that Farrell is a better 10 then Sexton and all that will keep Sexton at 10 is Murray at 9.

I believe Scotland should have more than Hogg in the squad but fancy that may be it. This is probably one of the best potential lions squads but it won't be with the coach the squad deserves.


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## Val (Apr 17, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39624348

So it seems that a couple of journos are saying that the squad is being leaked

Joseph and Launchbury IMO should be in the squad 

No surprise if Hartley doesnt get picked as he isnt even the best hooker in England

If i would to go for the starting 15 right now at a guess i would go 

1. Furlong
2. Best
3. Vunipola
4. Itodje
5. Kruis
6. O Brien
7. Stander
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Hogg
		
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You have Stander and OBrien the wrong way round. Pedantic I know.


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## Kellfire (Apr 17, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

British AND Irish Lions.


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## GB72 (Apr 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Val said:



			Agreed. I also don't get the hype for Rory best, he's no better than Hartley. I also believe that Farrell is a better 10 then Sexton and all that will keep Sexton at 10 is Murray at 9.

I believe Scotland should have more than Hogg in the squad but fancy that may be it. This is probably one of the best potential lions squads but it won't be with the coach the squad deserves.
		
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Certainly would find it easier to argue for a few more Scots in the team than i would to argue for any of the Welsh team to be in the starting 15. Think there are better choices across the board than any of the current Welsh side but would bet there are 4-5 in the starting 15 with another 2-3 on the bench


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## JamesR (Apr 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

If fit when the first test comes around I would go for:

1 - Marler
2 - George
3 - Furlong
4 - AWJ
5 - Itoje
6 - Stander
7 - Warburton
8 - Vunipola
9 - Murray
10 - Sexton
11 - Wade
12 - Farrell
13 - Joseph
14 - North
15 - Hogg

16 - Vunipola
17 - Hartley
18 - Sinkler
19 - Henderson
20 - Faletau
21 - Webb
22 - Henshaw
23 - Daly

But I imagine there will be more Welshmen, probably Jamie Roberts for his ability to run into the opposition, and Gethin Jenkins for his ability to be Gethin Jenkins.
The Scottish scrumhalf (captain & kicker), forgot his name, would be a good squad option for the leadership & additional kicking option, but I think he is still injured.
Agree about Best, he isn't a good enough thrower at the lineout to go against the ABs (Whitelock & Read in particular).
Wade is my outsider, I think he is an excellent wing who is overlooked by England, and he did manage to get into the squad in Oz following injuries etc so maybe Warren likes him.
I've also gone for a power pack as sub's as Warrenball will need bulk among the "finishers". Mako, Sinkler, Ian Henderson & Henshaw are all big hitters to come on late.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

I'm old fashioned. I like centres and wings who run around people, not over them. Gatland is a battering ram type of coach though so his choices wont be mine in that dept.


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## GB72 (Apr 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Could see Ashton as a wildcard choice for wing


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## Val (Apr 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



GB72 said:



			Could see Ashton as a wildcard choice for wing
		
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Couldn't disagree there, why he consistently gets over looked by England is a mystery. His summer moves stops the mystery though.

im more interest in his centre choices, if we see T'eo get the nod expect Farrell at 10 with Henshaw at 12 and normal Gatland ball trying to break the all blacks and fail spectacularly.


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## PieMan (Apr 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Like with all Lions squads, the players who should go don't necessarily given the four home unions all trying to get as many of their players on the tour as possible. Launchbury shortlisted for 6N player of the tournament and not being picked is madness - he was fantastic and fully deserves to be on the plane. Bar their disaster against England I thought Scotland were great and therefore should have a greater number of players than they will actually get.

Shame as I think if the squad was picked on form then the test series could be closer than people think.


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## Val (Apr 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Apparently there's been a leak, Launchbury makes it and only one Scottish player. Wouldn't surprise me if true


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Pretty disgraceful if true. Also hearing rumours that he has picked Jamie Roberts who could not even get a start for Wales and has been no more than average for Quin's. That would be embarrassing, i would pick any centre from the 4 nations ahead of Roberts. If he is going to try and batter NZ we will lose but then again that is always Gatlands plan A and he has no plan B


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## PieMan (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



GB72 said:



			Pretty disgraceful if true. Also hearing rumours that he has picked Jamie Roberts who could not even get a start for Wales and has been no more than average for Quin's. That would be embarrassing, i would pick any centre from the 4 nations ahead of Roberts. If he is going to try and batter NZ we will lose but then again that is always Gatlands plan A and he has no plan B
		
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Yes BBC website reporting that Hartley misses out but Roberts in. Crazy. I would take Hartley over Best.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

I don't expect anything other than a Welsh bias from Gatland for the squad. It seems he's taken a similar approach to picking a squad to the likes of Ericsson et al....picking your favourite buddies over performance and form values.


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Centre line up includes Roberts, Te'o, Davies, Daly, Henshaw and the one he got right IMO is Farrell as a 10 with Sexton and Biggar (who isn't even the best 10 at Ospreys). All that said those big boys have Gatland ball written all over it, bish bash bosh. You won't beat the all blacks like that.

Now, the only Scot getting in is Hogg, this will be from the Scotland team that beat Wales who look to supply 12 and Ireland who look to supply 12 also, baffling but not surprising. Keith Earls ahead of both Seymour and Maitland, Kruis ahead of both Grays despite not being fit (ok a fit Kruis should walk in but a fit Kruis would see Lawes not playing but he also makes the squad). Hamish Watson also missing out despite being the stand out openside of the 6 nations.

I have to say this is all a rumour leaked to the Telegraph, we'll find out for sure today.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

All the rumours of the squad are very troubling - having only one scot in the squad is insulting to how well they have played this year and it all smack of Gatland ignoring the 6 Nations and going back to 4 years ago 

Roberts , Halfpenny , Falateu etc have been poor all 6 nations and indeed during the Autumn Internationals. Owens , Tiperic , Williams , Warburton are prob the ones that deserve a place - the rest deabatable.


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Not just the 6N Phil, look at the Glasgow side and how well they performed in Europe particularly away in Paris and Leicester.

Fraser Brown has had an outstanding season for both Glasgow and Scotland but his defining moment is likely to be his yellow card at Twickenham. He's easily been a better hooker than Best this season but he won't get a sniff and similar could be said about Jamie George


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## JamesR (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Falatau may have been poor in the 6Ns (when coming back from injury - probably too soon) but his form since then has been very good - the class player in most Bath matches in recent times.

I can also understand the choice of Halfpenny, he may not have been great but it gives another goal kicker besides the flyhalf - useful when you consider what a tough schedule they have and the likelyhood of Sexton getting himself hurt a few times a game.


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



JamesR said:



			Falatau may have been poor in the 6Ns (when coming back from injury - probably too soon) but his form since then has been very good - the class player in most Bath matches in recent times.

I can also understand the choice of Halfpenny, he may not have been great but it gives another goal kicker besides the flyhalf - useful when you consider what a tough schedule they have and the likelyhood of Sexton getting himself hurt a few times a game.
		
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Falatau has been excellent for Bath and I'd have no issues with him. 1/2P on the other hand has been average and given Sexton and Farrell are handy with the boot as is Hogg then 1/2P should be injury cover only, His best days are behind him IMO


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## PieMan (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Warburton captain again.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Props: Dan Cole, Tadhg Furlong, Joe Marler, Jack McGrath, Kyle Sinckler, Mako Vunipola.

Hookers: Rory Best, Jamie George, Ken Owens.

Locks: Iain Henderson, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes.

Back rows: Taulupe Faletau, Ross Moriarty, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, CJ Stander, Justin Tipuric, Billy Vunipola, Sam Warburton (c).

Scrum-halves: Conor Murray, Rhys Webb, Ben Youngs.

Fly-halves: Dan Biggar, Owen Farrell, Jonathan Sexton.

Centres: Jonathan Davies, Robbie Henshaw, Jonathan Joseph, Ben Te'o.

Back three: Elliot Daly, Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg, George North, Jack Nowell, Jared Payne, Tommy Seymour, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Very refreshing to see the Lions squad reflects the recent 6 Nations tables as regards country representation.....

Biggar, Halfpenny and Webb.......oh that's right it's their national coach in charge.
Still don't know what Launchbury has to do to get a place.....perhaps turn Welsh ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Rhys Webb was always going to go as soon as Laidlaw was injured 

Halfpenny and Biggar going is just a case of going with what he knows - would even take Brown over Halfpenny and Russell instead of Biggar 

Launchbury not going is a joke


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## CheltenhamHacker (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Liverpoolphil said:



			Rhys Webb was always going to go as soon as Laidlaw was injured 

Halfpenny and Biggar going is just a case of going with what he knows - would even take Brown over Halfpenny and Russell instead of Biggar 

Launchbury not going is a joke
		
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Brown over halfpenny? not a chance. Brown is on the decline, even at club level, IMO.

Russell over biggar, I wouldn't object to that. The benefit I could possibly see to Biggar is that he is dependable, and plays Gatlands system. Could be useful for the weekday matches, and helping get the other F/h's up to speed for Gatland.

I see the complaints about Launchbury, but Eng already have 3 second rows. Who is being dropped? Or do you honestly think there are 4 english locks that are better than all bar one of the rest of the countries? Genuinely be interested in who you all would drop.

Biggest team who could complain in my eyes are Scotland, the only issue they have, I guess, is that there aren't multiple tournaments of strong play to base the picks on.


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Disgusted but not surprised. I wasn't expecting a dozen Scottish players but 2, really? Hamish Watson gave that Welsh back row a lesson at Murrayfield and do 2 Welsh 8's deserve a place?

Always tough to pick a squad and always going to divide opinion but 12 Welsh players more Welsh than players from Ireland? Shocking.


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## JamesR (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



CheltenhamHacker said:



			Brown over halfpenny? not a chance. Brown is on the decline, even at club level, IMO.


I see the complaints about Launchbury, but Eng already have 3 second rows. Who is being dropped? Or do you honestly think there are 4 english locks that are better than all bar one of the rest of the countries? Genuinely be interested in who you all would drop.
...
		
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Even Jiffy suggested that if an English 2nd row (one of 4) was left behind he would be justified in feeling very hard done to!

Launchbury & Lawes have been excellent for England this year, Itoje & Kruis are always excellent when playing together for either club or country. That said, AWJ was always going (and rightly so) and Henderson is a great impact player (I even put him on my bench  in post # 7). The Grey brothers must also feel hard done to, but I suppose lock is just a very good position for the home nations!

With regards to Full back, Brown is not the answer and as I said before maybe Halfpenny is there as another kicking option (mid-week perhaps).


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## JamesR (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

No Heaslip, is he injured?


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## stevek1969 (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Only 2 Scots and far to many second rate Welsh did Gaitland not watch the 6 nations or the Champions Cup, Warburton isn't even fit yet and he's the captain , poor show


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## fundy (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

arguably the wrong captain, the wrong squad and almost certainly be the wrong tactics too, hard to remember a lions tour ive looked forward to less!


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## thesheriff (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Good to see Wales' demolition of Scotland during the 6N rewarded with 12 slots in the 2017 tour, compared to Scotland's 2........... oh wait!!

This selection is utterly bemusing and it's going to be hard to warm to it.


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## NWJocko (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Val said:



*Disgusted but not surprised*. I wasn't expecting a dozen Scottish players but 2, really? Hamish Watson gave that Welsh back row a lesson at Murrayfield and do 2 Welsh 8's deserve a place?

Always tough to pick a squad and always going to divide opinion but 12 Welsh players more Welsh than players from Ireland? Shocking.
		
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Pretty much sums it up for me!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

I wouldn't have taken AWJ or Lawes and had Launchbury and as Val said Watson or one the Grays. 
It's not really a surprise so many Welsh because it's Gatland. And instead of Halfpenny if not Brown you can take Zebo


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## IanM (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

So, the usual objections based on where you were born!

........bloomin nora, no LAUNCHBURY?????????????????????????????????????????


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## GB72 (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

To play devils advocate, Gatland and his Welsh team were unlucky not to win 2 out of 3 tests last time they toured. Those players and tactics were effective before and those players will have a belied that NZ can be beaten in their own back yard. 

That said, I cannot see this being the final squad. There are some tough matches still left this season and the match this weekend between Munster and Saracens will be a bruising encounter. Could still be a few changes before the team leaves for NZ and then a few more as the tour goes on.


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



IanM said:



			So, the usual objections based on where you were born!

........bloomin nora, no LAUNCHBURY?????????????????????????????????????????

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No the objections are that Gatland picked his boys rather than players on form. Launchbury and either of the Grays would have been more deserving likewise Ryan who has been superb for Munster and Ireland


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## thesheriff (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Val said:



			No the objections are that Gatland picked his boys rather than players on form. Launchbury and either of the Grays would have been more deserving likewise Ryan who has been superb for Munster and Ireland
		
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Correct.  This selection is not based on result or form, more around who Gatland can shoe-horn into his preconceived strategy.  Obviously the welsh have the advantage of already having been shaped to the mould.


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

This side would give our lions a game

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/british-and-irish-lions-tour-2017/pwassell/the-lions-outcast-xv/


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



thesheriff said:



			Correct.  This selection is not based on result or form, more around who Gatland can shoe-horn into his preconceived strategy.  Obviously the welsh have the advantage of already having been shaped to the mould.
		
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And the cynic in me that read the unions receive Â£70k per player picked would suggest Gatland has pandered to his employers


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## PieMan (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Lock was always going to be highly contested, but for Kruis to go over the others that played in the 6N is very harsh IMO, irrespective as to how good he is.

Also Warburton as Captain is a very brave call considering that I think Stander had a better 6N than him, as well as Tipuric. I think a fully fit Warburton is a fantastic player, but sincerely hope we don't have another Fitzgerald 83 scenario whereby the captain isn't necessarily the best in his position.

Got to give Gatland the benefit of the doubt though seeing as he is a Lions tour winning coach.


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## JT77 (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Val said:



			This side would give our lions a game

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/british-and-irish-lions-tour-2017/pwassell/the-lions-outcast-xv/

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Canny team that!


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## Kellfire (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Given the short term nature of a Lions Tour, then surely it is vital that Gatland takes the players to fit the system rather than the other way round...

Scholes - Gerrard - Lampard, anyone?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Kellfire said:



			Scholes - Gerrard - Lampard, anyone?
		
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Those names together still have the power to make me shudder. Why, why, why?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Kellfire said:



			Given the short term nature of a Lions Tour, then surely it is vital that Gatland takes the players to fit the system rather than the other way round...

Scholes - Gerrard - Lampard, anyone?
		
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Or you show your abilities by picking the best players and finding a system that suits them


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## NWJocko (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Kellfire said:



			Given the short term nature of a Lions Tour, then surely it is vital that Gatland takes the players to fit the system rather than the other way round...
		
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I understand that viewpoint, think my lack of enthusiasm is that it is clearly the same old plan/type of rugby from Gatland and I don't think that's good enough to get the job done against NZ, I'd love to be proved wrong though.

A lot of competition for places, especially in the second row and you can't take everyone.  Biggar is the really odd one for me and illustrates Gatlands "plan B is more of plan A" approach, not entirely sure he offers anything different for the Test series to make an impact off the bench.  In fact I'd be amazed if there was ever a situation he would put Biggar at 10 ahead of Farrell if something happened to Sexton so why not take someone who offers something a little different (toss a coin between Ford and Russell, probably Ford if Farrell is starting 12)........

I'm far from an expert though


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## JamesR (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Kellfire said:



			... surely it is vital that Gatland takes the players to fit the system rather than the other way round ...
		
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A system that he never beat NZ with during his tenure as Wales head coach.

Perhaps using different types of players in a more imaginative system could give us a chance against the ABs. Afterall the Aussies were dire and they could have easily won the first two tests last time out, but for the lack of a decent goalkicker.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Looks to have been a bit of an old pals stitch up. Poor show.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

I'm just pleased Gatland is not English. The lack of Scots in the team when they have actually had a good 6 nations is a little odd to me.

I agree with your comment FD. One of the pleasing things is that despite the comments otherwise Joseph is in the side. His display of running against Scotland alone should have booked him a place. At least he is not another standard wham bam centre / winger.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Scotland hammer Wales 29-16 in the six nations.
Scotland 2 lions players selected Wales 12.

aye right.

Watson and J.Gray should have been included as a minimum.


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Test starting line up if all fit?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

I think he will go with 

Hogg
Daly
Davies
Farrell
North
Sexton
Murray

Vunipola
Owens
Furlong
Kruis/AWJ
Itodje
Warburton
OBrien/OMahoney
Vunipola


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Liverpoolphil said:



			I think he will go with 

Hogg
Daly
Davies
Farrell
North
Sexton
Murray

Vunipola
Owens
Furlong
Kruis/AWJ
Itodje
Warburton
OBrien/OMahoney
Vunipola
		
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Who would you have?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Val said:



			Who would you have?
		
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Hogg
Seymour
Te'o
Daly
Nowell
Farrell
Murray

Vunipola 
Owens
Furlong
Itodje
Kruis
Stander
OBrien
Vunipola


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## Val (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Hogg
Seymour
Davies
Henshaw
Williams
Farrell
Murray

Vunipola 
George
Furlong
Itodje
Kruis
Stander
Tipuric
Vunipola


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## JamesR (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

I'd go for:
Marler, George, Furlong
AWJ, Itoji
Stander, O'Mahoney, Vunipola
Murray, Sexton
Henshaw, Joseph
North, Hogg, Nowell
Subs:
Mako, Owens, Sinkler
Lawes, Falatau, Warburton
Youngs, Farrell


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## Farneyman (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...r-embarrassing-irish-rugby-fail-35636466.html

At least they changed it :thup:


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## Kellfire (Apr 19, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Farneyman said:



http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...r-embarrassing-irish-rugby-fail-35636466.html

At least they changed it :thup:
		
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Liverpoolphil doesn't see the problem.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Kellfire said:



			Liverpoolphil doesn't see the problem.
		
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Pardon ?


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## Farneyman (Apr 20, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

There's an issue with the thread title that was pointed out at the beginning of the thread in post#5 that has so far being ignored.

There's 11 Irish players in the squad.

British and Irish Lions 2017

Simples


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 20, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Liverpoolphil said:



			Pardon ?
		
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The title of your thread.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

Talk about mountain out of a molehill - do you really think it's anything more than a simple mistake 

Petty


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## Farneyman (Apr 20, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Liverpoolphil said:



			Talk about mountain out of a molehill - do you really think it's anything more than a simple mistake 

Petty
		
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So why not fix it if it was a mistake?

Or are you being petty?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 20, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*



Farneyman said:



			So why not fix it if it was a mistake?

Or are you being petty?
		
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Sorry I don't believe I have the power to change Title Threads - that's down to the mods


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## Farneyman (Apr 20, 2017)

Mods,

Can you fix the title.

Thanks


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## DCB (Apr 20, 2017)

Unfortunately the system does not alter the title of every post. If people reply to #64 the new title will be taken forward, but otherwise ....


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## Farneyman (Apr 20, 2017)

Thanks. Knew it would be easy.

:thup:


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## Val (Apr 20, 2017)

Irish trouble maker, always the same:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 20, 2017)

JJ wading into the debate re Scots selection, saying it is not sour grapes just a very poor selection process.
Not a man to argue with


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 20, 2017)

Farneyman said:



			Thanks. Knew it would be easy.

:thup:
		
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Result! Can you have a pop at gatland too, fabs, liverpoolphil isn't the only one that forgot one of the nations! :thup:


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## Rooter (Apr 20, 2017)

Why is owen farrell in the squad as a ten? he doesnt even play there for England? or is he there as a multi position option?

I had been looking forward to the lions tour, and i will probably still watch it, but this short sighted selection has left me cold and not that bothered.. will i get up at 5AM to watch live now? probably not, thank you SkyQ, i will watch at my leisure and fast forward the tosh (so i should be in front of the TV for about 8 minutes a match then!)


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## Val (Apr 20, 2017)

Rooter said:



			Why is owen farrell in the squad as a ten? he doesnt even play there for England? or is he there as a multi position option?

I had been looking forward to the lions tour, and i will probably still watch it, but this short sighted selection has left me cold and not that bothered.. will i get up at 5AM to watch live now? probably not, thank you SkyQ, i will watch at my leisure and fast forward the tosh (so i should be in front of the TV for about 8 minutes a match then!)
		
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Because 10 is his best position and that where he plays for his club, and to that the better options at 12


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## spongebob59 (Apr 20, 2017)

New take on an old theme (some bad language in the subtitles)

https://www.ruck.co.uk/watch-adolf-hitler-reacts-news-joe-launchbury-will-not-selected-lions/


----------



## Val (Apr 20, 2017)

spongebob59 said:



			New take on an old theme (some bad language in the subtitles)

https://www.ruck.co.uk/watch-adolf-hitler-reacts-news-joe-launchbury-will-not-selected-lions/

Click to expand...

Saw this today, always good to recycle this vid :rofl:


----------



## Farneyman (Apr 22, 2017)

Val said:



			Irish trouble maker, always the same:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

#JusticefortheIrish :whoo:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2017)

Ben Youngs has had to pull - really sad news about his brothers wife 

Greg Laidlaw has been called up to replace him


----------



## Val (May 7, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ben Youngs has had to pull - really sad news about his brothers wife 

Greg Laidlaw has been called up to replace him
		
Click to expand...

Puts life into perspective, sad news.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (May 21, 2017)

Billy Vunipola out ofnthe Tour with a shoulder injury - that's a big loss


----------



## fundy (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Billy Vunipola out ofnthe Tour with a shoulder injury - that's a big loss
		
Click to expand...

about as big as could be, as close to irreplaceable as there is currently


----------



## Val (May 21, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Billy Vunipola out ofnthe Tour with a shoulder injury - that's a big loss
		
Click to expand...

Massive loss, Stander is a more than able ball carrying 8 but losing BV is huge. Haskell isn't a direct replacement as he's a 6 but he will add beef to the back row. I can't help but feel a bulky back row isnt the answer to the AB's and would much prefer us with a mobile traditional openside like Tipuric starting in the tests.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (May 22, 2017)

Val said:



			Massive loss, Stander is a more than able ball carrying 8 but losing BV is huge. Haskell isn't a direct replacement as he's a 6 but he will add beef to the back row. I can't help but feel a bulky back row isnt the answer to the AB's and would much prefer us with a mobile traditional openside like Tipuric starting in the tests.
		
Click to expand...

Faletau, when fit and in form, is world class. The question is, will he be fully fit and in form!


----------



## JT77 (May 22, 2017)

I agree that Billy will be a huge miss, I think he will start Faletau in the tests at 8, Haskell has an excellent work ethic and is a strong tackler, but I dont think he will start, I think Tipuric will start in the tests.


----------



## pokerjoke (May 22, 2017)

Really looking forward to this as apposed to those overpaid prima-donnas who fall over in a gust of wind.


----------



## User62651 (May 22, 2017)

pokerjoke said:



			Really looking forward to this as apposed to those overpaid prima-donnas who fall over in a gust of wind.
		
Click to expand...

Assuming its on Sky Sports and at 6am GMT or whatever? - are you getting up for all the tests?

Notice 6 matches in 3 weeks before they even get to the first test -is that wise in terms of tiredness/injury risk? Surely these provincial sides will be all out to 'do maximum damage' ahead of the tests?


----------



## fundy (May 22, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			Assuming its on Sky Sports and at 6am GMT or whatever? - are you getting up for all the tests?

Notice 6 matches in 3 weeks before they even get to the first test -is that wise in terms of tiredness/injury risk? Surely these provincial sides will be all out to 'do maximum damage' ahead of the tests?
		
Click to expand...

8.30 starts and yes ill be up and raring. 

Full english with a pint of guiness did someone say.....


as for the schedule thinks its the shortest recently for a lions tour, they will be taking a big squad and adding to it as needed, always lose a few through injury before the tests, this will be no different


----------



## JT77 (May 22, 2017)

Think I'll head to golf club for them, can watch at home, but for the last tour there was a great atmosphere at the club and plenty in to watch, was great craic.


----------



## Foxholer (May 22, 2017)

maxfli65 said:



			...
Notice 6 matches in 3 weeks before they even get to the first test -is that wise in terms of tiredness/injury risk? Surely these provincial sides will be all out to 'do maximum damage' ahead of the tests?
		
Click to expand...

The days of provincial sides 'softening up' touring test sides are long gone!

That said, they are playing 5 great sides, so it'll be fast, entertaining and quite possibly rather severe tests prior to the actual Tests! Refereeing - and small differences in interpretation from what each side is used to - will be an important factor, as it always is!


----------



## Val (May 22, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Faletau, when fit and in form, is world class. The question is, will he be fully fit and in form!
		
Click to expand...

I don't doubt it, smashing player but I don't think he's quite the ball carrier Stander is and we'll need as many hard yards as we can get


----------



## paddyc (Jun 6, 2017)

*The Lions Tour*

2nd game of the tour tomorrow morning 8.30ish (BST) against the Auckland Blues which should be a tough test for Gatland's troops.
After scraping a win against the NZ Ba Ba's in first game, in a unconvincing performance, which considering they only arrived 3 days before was probably to be expected, there is opportunity for other squad members to stake a claim.

A bit one dimensional on Saturday.Looking for the welsh half back pairing of Webb and Biggar to make an impact and the irish centre partnership of Henshaw and Payne.

5 games before the 1st test against the All Blacks. 

My concern is that Gatland seems very set in his ways about the game he wants to play which NZ should know how to deal with.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 6, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*

With five games to the first test, it'll be important to get the potential first XV of that game playing and playing well but not at the risk of fatigue and injury so it'll be a balancing act. I wonder if Gatland will experiment tomorrow or stick to the tired and tested formula


----------



## Val (Jun 6, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*

Tough game tomorrow against probably the weakest of the NZ super rugby y franchises. I wouldn't read too much into tomorrow's game, our game next week against the Crusaiders might give you an idea of a likely test line up


----------



## Val (Jun 6, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*



HomerJSimpson said:



			With five games to the first test, it'll be important to get the potential first XV of that game playing and playing well but not at the risk of fatigue and injury so it'll be a balancing act. I wonder if Gatland will experiment tomorrow or stick to the tired and tested formula
		
Click to expand...

Gatland has stated he is ensuring every player in the 41 gets a start in the build up games, tomorrow won't be close to the test starting side.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 6, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*



Val said:



			Tough game tomorrow against probably the weakest of the NZ super rugby y franchises. I wouldn't read too much into tomorrow's game, our game next week against the Crusaiders might give you an idea of a likely test line up
		
Click to expand...

But ideal to get the legs stretched for a few. I'd expect a 15-20 point advantage in a win tomorrow


----------



## Val (Jun 6, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*



HomerJSimpson said:



			But ideal to get the legs stretched for a few. I'd expect a 15-20 point advantage in a win tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Not a chance, I fully expect us to lose and would be surprised if we didn't. Blues are no mugs and with SBW and 7 other All Blacks in their side we won't get an easy ride.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 6, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*

The Lions looked a bit pedestrian, which you would expect for an early game.
The Regional team looked pretty smart and sharp, if that is a sign for things to come we need to improve PDQ.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2017)

If this is the weakest Super Rugby team then it's going to be a long tour


----------



## Coffey (Jun 7, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*

Why is the radio commentary link on the bbc website in Welsh?!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2017)

Just poor mistakes and some very basic as well especially when pressure is being applied


----------



## Foxholer (Jun 7, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*



Doon frae Troon said:



			The Lions looked a bit pedestrian, which you would expect for an early game.
The Regional team looked pretty smart and sharp, if that is a sign for things to come we need to improve PDQ.
		
Click to expand...

+1

And - Sonny Bill Williams's magic notwithstanding - The Blues are not the most dynamic team in NZ!

3 Tries to 1 against does not auger well!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2017)

Sexton again poor with the ball - kicked far too many high balls which have just given away possession. 

The forwards have done a lot of good hard work especially at set pieces with a number of them playing their way into the test team but behind them they have been poor bar Webb

Farrell looking a certain for the 10 slot without even starting 

The Lions can't score that try because it's not in the make up of Gatland crash ball rugby. It's going to be long Tour at this rate.

Cant see how the Lions are going to get anywhere near the All Blacks in the tests - not even sure how many they we will win overall - maybe 3 wins on tour ?


----------



## PieMan (Jun 7, 2017)

Can the Lions replace the head coach once the tour has started?  Bring back Sir Ian Geech and Scary Jim!!!

Agree with you LP - if this is the weakest SR team then it's already not looking good! The game on Saturday is massive to get the tour really going.


----------



## fundy (Jun 7, 2017)

Horrible to watch and interviews are even worse.

Obsession with set piece, defensive patterns, cutting out errors etc, no chance of trying to play rugby with ball in hand

Expected 3-0 in the tests, cant see us even getting close in any of them with this approach sadly


----------



## Val (Jun 7, 2017)

Last try was a belter but too many players playing their way out of a test game today.

Nowell - Not helped by others but got seriously caught out today
Biggar - very poor
Sexton - see Biggar
Williams - 2 tackles in the air in minutes???
Best - serious blunder at the death)

For me, only passmarks from starters were front 5 plus and Rhys Webb too. Expected more from Stander, 1/2P looks a shadow of the player he was before moving to Toulon.

It could be a long summer under Warrenball


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 7, 2017)

Val said:



			Last try was a belter but too many players playing their way out of a test game today.

Nowell - Not helped by others but got seriously caught out today
Biggar - very poor
Sexton - see Biggar
Williams - 2 tackles in the air in minutes???
Best - serious blunder at the death)

For me, only passmarks from starters were front 5 plus and Rhys Webb too. Expected more from Stander, 1/2P looks a shadow of the player he was before moving to Toulon.

It could be a long summer under Warrenball
		
Click to expand...

Thought Tiperic had a very good game 

Stander was solid as was Haskell 

The pack gave the team a very good platform which was wasted from 10 with both Biggar and Sexton 

Not giving up on Nowell yet because felt 1/2p didn't help him at all when he was isolated


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jun 7, 2017)

2 Threads merged using Super Mod Powers :thup:


----------



## spongebob59 (Jun 7, 2017)

Anyone know where you can get highlights from, skys site is blocked by location for me.


----------



## fundy (Jun 7, 2017)

where are you Bob?


----------



## spongebob59 (Jun 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			where are you Bob?
		
Click to expand...

Kent


----------



## fundy (Jun 7, 2017)

spongebob59 said:



			Kent
		
Click to expand...

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/blues-vs-lions/report/80962

are you saying you cant watch here?


----------



## spongebob59 (Jun 7, 2017)

fundy said:



http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/blues-vs-lions/report/80962

are you saying you cant watch here?
		
Click to expand...

Asks me to sign in or sign up


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 7, 2017)

*Re: The Lions Tour*



Val said:



			Gatland has stated he is ensuring every player in the 41 gets a start in the build up games, tomorrow won't be close to the test starting side.
		
Click to expand...

You were you bang on the money. I had hopes the Lions would use this to put down a marker.


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## fundy (Jun 7, 2017)

spongebob59 said:



			Asks me to sign in or sign up
		
Click to expand...

weird i could just watch it without logging in at all


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jun 8, 2017)

Many Scots playing in the last match? hmmm


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

Good win for the Lions, enjoyed that :thup:


----------



## fundy (Jun 10, 2017)

just watched the highlights

positives: organisation, defense, front 5, beating a very good side

negatives: individual errors (both sides really guilty), lack of creativity, one dimensional


I guess for a team under Gatland it should be seen as a step forward, but its a long long long way from whats going to be needed to win the test matches


----------



## Foxholer (Jun 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			just watched the highlights

positives: organisation, defense, front 5, beating a very good side

negatives: individual errors (both sides really guilty), lack of creativity, one dimensional


I guess for a team under Gatland it should be seen as a step forward, but its a long long long way from whats going to be needed to win the test matches
		
Click to expand...

Have to agree with this - with much disappointment with the result! 

It's likely, though by no means certain, that the 'creativity' will come as players/combinations gel, but it needs to happen damned fast! There doesn't seem to be any 'stunning threatening' player in the lineup that was on display this morning, but they certainly nullified any Crusaders  threat too - which may have been a high priority! A couple of opportunities went rather begging on the left, but it all seemed a bit too 'old style Rugby League-ish'


----------



## fundy (Jun 10, 2017)

stunning game between Argentina and England tonight, if you havent seen it try and catch the highlights, esp the second half, some brilliant tries


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			stunning game between Argentina and England tonight, if you havent seen it try and catch the highlights, esp the second half, some brilliant tries
		
Click to expand...

It's been an outstanding game - some stunning rugby


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Jun 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			stunning game between Argentina and England tonight, if you havent seen it try and catch the highlights, esp the second half, some brilliant tries
		
Click to expand...

Knackered watching it, great advert for the game.


----------



## JT77 (Jun 10, 2017)

Great game thoroughly enjoyed it


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 12, 2017)

So all the players have started a match now 

What would be your starting 15 in the first test ?

Vunipola
Owens
Furlong
Itodje
Kruis
Warburton
O Mahony
Faletau

Murray
Farrell
Te'o
Jospeh
Seymour 
North
Watson 

Sinckler
Cole
George
Lawes
Stander
Webb
Sexton
Daly


----------



## Val (Jun 12, 2017)

Mako
George
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Tipuric
Falatau 

Murray
Farrell 
Williams
Henshaw
Joseph
North
Hogg

Bench

Marler
Owens
Sinckler
AWJ
Webb
Sexton
Watson
Daly


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## JT77 (Jun 13, 2017)

I'd go with that Val, but think Hogg may struggle with that eye injury.
And maybe look at o'Mahoney at 6 instead of stander.


----------



## rudebhoy (Jun 13, 2017)

JT77 said:



			I'd go with that Val, but think Hogg may struggle with that eye injury.
And maybe look at o'Mahoney at 6 instead of stander.
		
Click to expand...

Hogg has been sent home, his tour is over.

Better effort today than last midweek, but too many silly penalties again. Bizarre call to bring Farrell on cold to kick a crucial penalty, wasn't surprised he missed.


----------



## fundy (Jun 13, 2017)

Very little progress made from last week and saw few positives to take from the game, including not being able to win a close game that was there for the taking. The gameplan is clearly one dimensional and not going to win a test series but we'll keep banging down route 1


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2017)

Positives for me - Joseph - he has to play , Marler played well , Webb showed he can challenge Murray, Warburton played well


----------



## Val (Jun 13, 2017)

Didn't see it but believe Seymour had his work cut out with the threat from Naholo, hood to hear he got his trademark intercepted try though.

Gutted for Hogg, Scotlands first chance of a genuine test starter for man a tour gone in a freak accident. Hopefully Seymour has done enough to stake a claim for the 11 shirt but fancy a bench slot is his best option, likewise Laidlaw.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2017)

fundy said:



			Very little progress made from last week and saw few positives to take from the game, including not being able to win a close game that was there for the taking. The gameplan is clearly one dimensional and not going to win a test series but we'll keep banging down route 1
		
Click to expand...

Seen nothing yet that convinces me of anything other than a series defeat. Doesn't seem to be any alternative tactics being employed


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2017)

completely devaluing the shirt selecting players based on where in the world they are, not good, not good at all if true

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40301161


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2017)

Happened before hasn't it though ? A number of tours people have been called up to cover for a couple of games


----------



## fundy (Jun 16, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Happened before hasn't it though ? A number of tours people have been called up to cover for a couple of games
		
Click to expand...

yeah but theyve been called up on merit not on who's closest


----------



## Val (Jun 16, 2017)

fundy said:



			completely devaluing the shirt selecting players based on where in the world they are, not good, not good at all if true

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40301161

Click to expand...

Dirt trackers to play in the last game before the tests to keep the starting 23 fit but agree players should be called on merit as opposed to location


----------



## PieMan (Jun 17, 2017)

Gatland has just said in his interview the plan was always to bring in some more players. If that's the case they should be the next 'best' in those respective positions? Who knows what will happen in the test matches.

Someone like Launchbury has just played in a test against a full strength Pumas side and even if only a dirt-tracker would be a huge asset to the midweek team, as would a number of the Scots who have just beaten Australia.

A shameful Welsh bias and a joke IMHO.


----------



## PieMan (Jun 17, 2017)

The great and legendary Sir Geech has more or less said the same thing!


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Jun 17, 2017)

Meanwhile,    
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40311817

Great win for Gregor's boys.
Dreadful selection of Lions players by Gatland. INO.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jun 17, 2017)

fundy said:



			yeah but theyve been called up on merit not on who's closest
		
Click to expand...

Like a retired shane williams last series? Don't remember the same complaints...


----------



## Val (Jun 18, 2017)

2 call ups were o the fringes as injury replacements IMO (Russell, Davies) the others are a joke. Alan Dell isn't even 2nd choice loosehead at Edinburgh never mind being good enough for the Lions.


----------



## fundy (Jun 18, 2017)

*Re: British Lions Tour 2017*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Hill

lol at the notable relatives


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2017)

The call ups are embarrassing apart from Russell - they should have called people up on merit - Launchbury , Brown , Care , Russell , Barclay etc


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2017)

decent enough performance this morning against an understrength Chiefs side. One thing that really bugged me near the end when they completely butchered an overlap (that we'd have got grief for at school level!) the commentary werent worried at all about it and once again emphasised the only important part left in the game as far as management were concerned was not conceding a try. many times on this tour chances like that been butchered and ignored, one missed tackle and they cant highlight it enough


----------



## Val (Jun 20, 2017)

fundy said:



			decent enough performance this morning against an understrength Chiefs side. One thing that really bugged me near the end when they completely butchered an overlap (that we'd have got grief for at school level!) the commentary werent worried at all about it and once again emphasised the only important part left in the game as far as management were concerned was not conceding a try. many times on this tour chances like that been butchered and ignored, one missed tackle and they cant highlight it enough
		
Click to expand...

Is this the Seymour/Payne one? Have as yet to see it but believe Tommy made a pigs ear of it, more is the pity.

Biggest gripe, and I know lots have been made of the new call ups for this weeks and next weeks matches but with a 20 point lead then surely all replacements should have been used?? You never know, maybe someone like Davies or Russell could have made a real stake for a test spot especially Russell seen as Farrell is struggling with a niggle, Sexton is hot and cold and Biggar has got himself injured every game (until today).


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2017)

Val said:



			Is this the Seymour/Payne one? Have as yet to see it but believe Tommy made a pigs ear of it, more is the pity.

Biggest gripe, and I know lots have been made of the new call ups for this weeks and next weeks matches but with a 20 point lead then surely all replacements should have been used?? You never know, maybe someone like Davies or Russell could have made a real stake for a test spot especially Russell seen as Farrell is struggling with a niggle, Sexton is hot and cold and Biggar has got himself injured every game (until today).
		
Click to expand...

yep it is, its pretty bad after running a great line


----------



## Val (Jun 20, 2017)

fundy said:



			yep it is, its pretty bad after running a great line
		
Click to expand...

He'll get slaughtered in the media for it, he's not English, Irish or Welsh after all


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jun 20, 2017)

Do we think that with these call ups, the big names being mentioned would have happily dropped their own tour commitments, to fly across the world, and sit on the bench for some midweek games?


----------



## fundy (Jun 20, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Do we think that with these call ups, the big names being mentioned would have happily dropped their own tour commitments, to fly across the world, and sit on the bench for some midweek games?
		
Click to expand...

yep, in a heartbeat


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Do we think that with these call ups, the big names being mentioned would have happily dropped their own tour commitments, to fly across the world, and sit on the bench for some midweek games?
		
Click to expand...

Yes because they would be being called up on merit knowing they would have a chance to impress to look at the 2nd and 3rd tests.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jun 20, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes because they would be being called up on merit knowing they would have a chance to impress to look at the 2nd and 3rd tests.
		
Click to expand...

You say that (and it's valid), but look how much game time the #locationsix got today. Not exactly much chance to impress...


----------



## Val (Jun 20, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			You say that (and it's valid), but look how much game time the #locationsix got today. Not exactly much chance to impress...
		
Click to expand...

They would all go. 70k fat ones and the chance to stick British and Irish Lion on your Rugby CV which is handy when you finish playing and fancy the media or after dinner circuit.

Huge rumour surrounding the Scotland camp that WP Nel knocked the opportunity back because he has only returned from injury.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 20, 2017)

So after that performance and the ones before with the first test imminent what do you think the score will be? Do the Lions have a chance and what do you think the side will be


----------



## BrianM (Jun 21, 2017)

Was a decent performance today against a really young Chief's side (Average age 24)
Hopefully it will have given the players watching from the stands something to be worried about if they don't perform on Saturday.
Still can't see anything but a 3-0 white wash to the All Black's, hope i'm wrong though.


----------



## Fish (Jun 21, 2017)

Dont they reply the matches anymore, all I can find is 'Tour Hits' no doubt that's just snippets of the game?


----------



## Val (Jun 21, 2017)

I think he'll go with most of this line up but chances are AWJ and Warburton will start

Mako
George
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis
Stander 
OBrien
Falatau 

Murray
Farrell 
Watson
T'eo
Joseph
North
1/2P

Bench

Marler
Owens
Sinckler
AWJ
Warburton 
Webb
Sexton
Daly


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2017)

Val said:



			I think he'll go with most of this line up but chances are AWJ and Warburton will start

Mako
George
Furlong
Itoje
Kruis
Stander 
OBrien
Falatau 

Murray
Farrell 
Watson
T'eo
Joseph
North
1/2P

Bench

Marler
Owens
Sinckler
AWJ
Warburton 
Webb
Sexton
Daly
		
Click to expand...

Only change I think there will be is OMahoney for Stander and OMahoney as Captain

Also wouldn't be surprise to see Sexton in instead of Farrell


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2017)

Mako
George
Furlong
AWJ - Embarrassing choice
Kruis
OMahoney
OBrien
Falateu

Murray
Farrell
Daly
Te'o
Davies
Watson
Williams 

The fact AWJ is in instead of Itodje is a joke for me - Whitelock is going to wipe the floor with him 

Williams at full back was interesting


----------



## fundy (Jun 21, 2017)

cant make any sense of that side at all, awj not in the best 3 maybe 4 locks in the party yet starts, a back 3 thats not played together, Farrells fitness being risked, North not even in squad


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jun 21, 2017)

Sky naturally building this side up and praising the manager for the "bravery" of his decisions. Is it a side that jumps off the page as a winning line up? No but it's all about on the day and hope they gel and get a fast start


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jun 21, 2017)

fundy said:



			cant make any sense of that side at all, awj not in the best 3 maybe 4 locks in the party yet starts, a back 3 thats not played together, Farrells fitness being risked, North not even in squad
		
Click to expand...

I would put AWJ as 5th in terms of the locks - all the others are better - think he has gone for him because Warburton wasn't fit so has a little bit more experience and Itodje will explode from the bench 

Back three - Daly and Watson and have played together and Daly and Williams played well together so that I think could be a better move than North who is so out of form 

It seems that Farrells injury was never as bad as reported - could have even played last week but just protected him a little bit more 

If he had gone Itodje with Lawes on the bench then it would have been a team with a small chance


----------



## Val (Jun 21, 2017)

Other than AWJ I quite like the side, Williams I believe to be a better 15 than 1/2P anyway.

Surprised Gatland didn't hand the captaincy to AWJ however POM is deserving of it, a proper leader of men as a captain and a player I admire (despite my loathing of Munster).


----------



## Captainron (Jun 24, 2017)

I'm going with NZ to win by 20-25 points.

They're on a different planet in terms of skill and athleticism.


----------



## Imurg (Jun 24, 2017)

[video=youtube_share;JLCXNm7IZWc]https://youtu.be/JLCXNm7IZWc[/video]


----------



## paddyc (Jun 24, 2017)

Well I was never that confident that a team just together for 4 weeks could beats the AB s but I think we were soundly beaten today.Needed to win the first test to have any chance in series.Just cant see how we can turn it around from 1 down. The speed of the all blacks is just sensational and the finishing of the kid on the wing was superb
We had chances but again decision making in final third cost us, trying to make difficult offloads in the tackle instead of holding for the support to arrive. Too much intense pressure fronm NZ whereas we just a few exciting breaks like the O Brien try and the second half run by davies but could not capitalise.
I thought the team set up well and cant see too many changes in the backs. Maybe Lawes and Itoje may come in second row.

On to next Saturday.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 24, 2017)

Disappointing result for the English, Welsh and Irish Lions team.


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## dewsweeper (Jun 24, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Disappointing result for the English, Welsh and Irish Lions team. 

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Wrong thread!


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 24, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Disappointing result for the English, Welsh and Irish Lions team. 

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Doon , if any Scots were good enough to make the team , would it have made any difference.

To be frank , this constant sniping at anything English ( or non Scottish) is becoming very tedious, please stop it.

Thank you


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## BrianM (Jun 24, 2017)

Lions well beat today, the All Blacks on a different planet at times, they will have to up there game considerably for next Saturday &#128512;


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## upsidedown (Jun 24, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Doon , if any Scots were good enough to make the team , would it have made any difference.

To be frank , this constant sniping at anything English ( or non Scottish) is becoming very tedious, please stop it.

Thank you
		
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If fairness  , Scotland  4th best team in World on current rankings and no representation in the team is a sad indictment of a one eyed coach &#128549;


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## Val (Jun 24, 2017)

upsidedown said:



			If fairness  , Scotland  4th best team in World on current rankings and no representation in the team is a sad indictment of a one eyed coach &#128549;
		
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I'll qualify this by saying 4th ranked team which is not the same as 4th best. I may be a Scotland rugby diehard but I'm not daft.


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## Piece (Jun 25, 2017)

I'm a bit more positive. Yes we deservedly lost, yet the main difference was the quality of the finish. ABs were clinical, finishing everything I can remember. Lions had two golden opportunities at the start of both halves but failed to take them. We also lacked the intensity in the breakdown and the tackling wasn't as good as it could be. These ABs are brilliant but they are beatable.


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## paddyc (Jun 25, 2017)

Piece said:



			I'm a bit more positive. Yes we deservedly lost, yet the main difference was the quality of the finish. ABs were clinical, finishing everything I can remember. Lions had two golden opportunities at the start of both halves but failed to take them. We also lacked the intensity in the breakdown and the tackling wasn't as good as it could be. These ABs are brilliant but they are beatable.
		
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Only if they have a bad day and Lions have a very good day,cant see it happening mate. Have to be an exceptional team to beat them.I hope Im wrong.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2017)

The worrying thing to my mind is that the all blacks weren't even at full throttle and so they've got a lot more to give too if they need it. Granted they lost some players yesterday but I doubt they will be too weak next week and if they really want to go for it full tilt I can't see the lions or any side in the world living with them


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 25, 2017)

Piece said:



			I'm a bit more positive. Yes we deservedly lost, yet the main difference was the quality of the finish. ABs were clinical, finishing everything I can remember. Lions had two golden opportunities at the start of both halves but failed to take them. We also lacked the intensity in the breakdown and the tackling wasn't as good as it could be. These ABs are brilliant but they are beatable.
		
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I think the All Blacks have another gear to go up if required - they did what was needed and were clinical. 

Can see a couple of changes - Itodje in for AWJ and Warburton for OMahoney , also if they play well Nowell , Lawes and Stander in on the bench.


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## Val (Jun 25, 2017)

Eden Park has been an AB fortress for 23 years, no shame on the Lions losing BUT they have to be so much better in attack and in the back row in this next must win test.


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## Fish (Jun 27, 2017)

Really enjoyed the game earlier today, some stand out individual performances.


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## ScienceBoy (Jun 27, 2017)

Really sad that Gatland came out and said he did not want to devalue the shirt.

IMO he had a plan, he should have stuck to it. Caving in shows a huge weakness than can only now be exploited. Standing firm, keeping going and saying it's all part of a bigger plan would have shown a much stronger front.

Huge mistake IMO to admit it, I only hope I am proved wrong.


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## Val (Jun 27, 2017)

ScienceBoy said:



			Really sad that Gatland came out and said he did not want to devalue the shirt.

IMO he had a plan, he should have stuck to it. Caving in shows a huge weakness than can only now be exploited. Standing firm, keeping going and saying it's all part of a bigger plan would have shown a much stronger front.

Huge mistake IMO to admit it, I only hope I am proved wrong.
		
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He already did it by calling up players on geography. To call them up and not play them is a slap in the face for the 6 call ups. To then come out and say he didn't want to devalue the jersey is ludicrous, this guy has no respect for the home nations and I now hope the Lions lose this series (despite the fact I'll still cheer them on the next 2 tests) if anything but to show how much of a rip roaring backside he's made of this tour.


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## GB72 (Jun 27, 2017)

Was listening to Talk sport the other day and an interesting suggestion came up. The Lions always tour with the odds stacked against them with lack of preparation time and giving the opposition home advantage. So why not a home Lions tour. 4 match series, one at each home nations HQ and a mid week match against the top team from each nation. Never happen and totally against tradition but an interesting idea that would be massive for promoting rugby in the home nations.


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## Fish (Jun 27, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Was listening to Talk sport the other day and an interesting suggestion came up. The Lions always tour with the odds stacked against them with lack of preparation time and giving the opposition home advantage. So why not a home Lions tour. 4 match series, one at each home nations HQ and a mid week match against the top team from each nation. Never happen and totally against tradition but an interesting idea that would be massive for promoting rugby in the home nations.
		
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Sounds great, which means it will never happen &#128543;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 27, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Was listening to Talk sport the other day and an interesting suggestion came up. The Lions always tour with the odds stacked against them with lack of preparation time and giving the opposition home advantage. So why not a home Lions tour. 4 match series, one at each home nations HQ and a mid week match against the top team from each nation. Never happen and totally against tradition but an interesting idea that would be massive for promoting rugby in the home nations.
		
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The question is - when do you fit it in ? 

Season already pretty busy


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## GB72 (Jun 27, 2017)

Every 4 years so not that hard. Autumn international slot or even during the current lions slot as hardly too hot for rugby most years. 

Another suggestion is to ditch the warm up matches when on tour in NZ and Aus and play pacific island teams who are desperate for the funding the lions would bring.


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## PieMan (Jun 27, 2017)

Personally I think the Lions are fantastic and they have to stay a touring side. Rugby - like golf in a way - still has some great traditions and the Lions, and to a drgree the Barbarians, are well and truly part of those. Yes the odds are stacked against them, but I would say only massively when they tour New Zealand given the quality of the provincial games. 

Look at the last few tours - won in Australia, narrowly lost (arguably should have won) in South Africa. I've also seen interviews with the Southern Hemisphere players who've said that playing against the Lions for their respective national teams is the highlight of their careers.

Plus I don't think you'd get the same camaraderie amongst the players and travelling fans from the 4 home nations if the concept changed.

Plus look at the buzz and excitement the Lions generates in SA, Oz and NZ - its totally unique. 

But I agree that a way should be found to incorporate the Pacific Islanders into a tour, particularly when it's in Oz and NZ. A couple of midweek matches on an Oz tour would seriously strengthen that one. You could argue the Lions play more than enough against Pacific Islanders on a NZ tour!! &#128514;&#128514;


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## Val (Jun 28, 2017)

PieMan said:



			Personally I think the Lions are fantastic and they have to stay a touring side. Rugby - like golf in a way - still has some great traditions and the Lions, and to a drgree the Barbarians, are well and truly part of those. Yes the odds are stacked against them, but I would say only massively when they tour New Zealand given the quality of the provincial games. 

Look at the last few tours - won in Australia, narrowly lost (arguably should have won) in South Africa. I've also seen interviews with the Southern Hemisphere players who've said that playing against the Lions for their respective national teams is the highlight of their careers.

Plus I don't think you'd get the same camaraderie amongst the players and travelling fans from the 4 home nations if the concept changed.

Plus look at the buzz and excitement the Lions generates in SA, Oz and NZ - its totally unique. 

But I agree that a way should be found to incorporate the Pacific Islanders into a tour, particularly when it's in Oz and NZ. A couple of midweek matches on an Oz tour would seriously strengthen that one. You could argue the Lions play more than enough against Pacific Islanders on a NZ tour!! &#62978;&#62978;
		
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I wouldnt disagree with any of that


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 29, 2017)

Well I thought Itodje would start but not in place of Kruis - I wonder if Gatland will ever drop AWJ

Also gone for Sexton -Farrell at 10-12

And Warburton back with OMahoney and Kruis along with 1/2penny out of the 23 altogether 

Williams
Watson
Davis 
Farrell
Daly
Sexton
Murray

Furlong
George 
Mako 
Itodje
AWJ
Warburton
OBrien
Falateu

Rep 

McGrath
Owens
Sincklar
Lawes
Stander
Webb
Te'o 
Nowell

Reckon the gap this time will be over 20 points to the AB


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## JT77 (Jun 29, 2017)

Not sure about changing Teo and moving Farrell to 12, not sure that the 10-12 will work here as it does for England, Teo had a good game and think he should have started, I would have left Farrell at 10, dropped AWJ for Itoje and played him with Kruis, as mucha s I like Omahoney I think bringing in Warburton is a fair call. Thought Henderson may have sneaked onto the bench too as thought he did very well tuesday, yellow card aside.
Not sure about the result here, dont think it will be as big a defeat though, see how the breakdown goes!


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## Captainron (Jun 29, 2017)

Massive errors in selection there in my view. 

The back line functioned really well. There is no way that Sexton should be starting at flyhalf for this game. Only change that may have been made was to bin Watson and play another winger but now Halfpenny is out, there's no option of switching the back 3 around. 

it was the forwards that lost the game by having no options from the set piece. The lions may have won 95% of their lineouts but they had no options from the ball they secured. Every maul was sacked well by the AB's which slowed down the game. I don't think the lions even went from the top off a ball thrown to the back. The scrums were average too. The AB's were never really going backwards there. It meant that all their defensive patterns were well set and stuck to.  The AB's absolutely bossed the ruck and the breakdown. Without gains in those areas the Lions WILL get another thrashing.

The lions only ever looked dangerous in broken play when they got the ball after a failed AB attack. You can't just live off scraps against these guys. Their skill sets are streets ahead of any player in the 

I watch the Springboks and Wallabies get pulled apart by these guys 4 times a year and the only way you can put pressure on the All Blacks is to secure your set piece and play on the front foot. Clear the rucks quickly and have a worldie. Otherwise you will get beaten


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## Val (Jun 29, 2017)

I see a heavier defeat than last week with that selection.

Disagree with dropping T'eo but if Farrell goes to 12 then 13 has to be Joseph IMO not Davies. Can't disagree with the back 3 starters but surprised Seymour didn't get a sniff of a bench place ahead of Nowell after Tuesday. Sexton is massively out of form (as is Farrell to be fair) so I'd have started with Biggar but playing 80 minutes on a Tuesday doesn't help that especially as that was easily avoided.

Biggest call for me is AWJ not just starting but making the 23, his best days are behind and for me is the weakest second row in the squad.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 29, 2017)

Can see this being a 20-25 pint gap to the All Blacks

Nothing int hat side suggests improvements sufficient to overcome last weeks gulf and I still think New Zealand had several more gears if they had needed it


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## fundy (Jun 29, 2017)

Gatland just continues to make this tour a farce. Id love to know how many people watched last weeks game thought that dropping Teo but retaining AWJ was the right choice lol

He clearly has no idea or plan and is just guessing, and guessing badly. Said he was a bad appointment from day 1 and hes been worse than I expected


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## drewster (Jun 29, 2017)

Te'o defensively was immense last week. Can see the AB really exploiting the Farrell channel now.  Everything  about AWJ has been said. Gatland loves him and has stuck by him when everyone else in the world can see that it's not on merit. I'll wake up on Saturday morning in hope more than expectation.


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## Val (Jun 29, 2017)

fundy said:



			Gatland just continues to make this tour a farce. Id love to know how many people watched last weeks game thought that dropping Teo but retaining AWJ was the right choice lol

He clearly has no idea or plan and is just guessing, and guessing badly. Said he was a bad appointment from day 1 and hes been worse than I expected
		
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T'eo is the best (now the only) 12 we have defensively, his match up to SBW was great last week, if he could pass or offload in tackle he would be absolutely world class.

The full Lions management committee needs revamped, at least we'll have a new coaching set up in 2021


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## JT77 (Jun 29, 2017)

Val said:



			T'eo is the best (now the only) 12 we have defensively, his match up to SBW was great last week, if he could pass or offload in tackle he would be absolutely world class.

The full Lions management committee needs revamped, at least we'll have a new coaching set up in 2021
		
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Yep a new coaching outfit for 2021, tour of SA though, this was a sterling opportunity to play against the AB's, and win a series against them IMO.  Gatland should never have been named coach for me, it looked like it would be awful from the start and it hasnt really set alight.  Hopefully I am wrong and we can win on Saturday, I just cant see how! Teo should never have been dropped for this upcoming test, and gatland looks like he is clutching at straws.  I will be up watching, and cheering the team on, as I am sure we all will, but it may not be pretty! 

Still cant see Farrell/Sexton working the same here as Ford/Farrell for England! 

However, i am the eternal optimist, grew up a Newcastle fan, and being English, I actually even believe that one day my football team will win a trophy, so if I think Newcastle can win, then anything is possible!


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## Piece (Jun 29, 2017)

Lawes and Henderson were ahead of AWJ from what I've seen.


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## Val (Jun 29, 2017)

Piece said:



			Lawes and Henderson were ahead of AWJ from what I've seen.
		
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As are Itoje and Kruis, there are locks not on tour better......Launchbury, Gray x 2, Toner, Ryan, Charteris, Ball.


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## Foxholer (Jun 29, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Can see this being a 20-25 *pint* gap to the All Blacks
...
		
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Pretty sure that's how the ABs will be celebrating!

But that would have been the case either way!

Gatland just doesn't have the talent/commitment available to succeed on this tour! ABs are currently a level above everyone - even with a couple of glitches, particularly the late try, thrown in last week! There would have been some fairly harsh words about allowing the score to be as close as it was - though I'd actually predicted 32-15! 

Saturday's score is very likely to be weather dependent - pretty dire (very windy with rain) forecast! So a pretty dour forwards based game with an occasional excursion to probing 3/4 play is likely. Forecast reminds me of watching several matches 'high up' at Athletic Park in 'twenty pointer' (half-time lead needed to compete!) breezes, then looking even further up to see where the commentators were perched - in a wee shed reached by climbing about 20-30 feet up a ladder completely open to the elements! All changed now though - but there'll still be a 'points advantage' rating!


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## Val (Jun 29, 2017)

Gatland does have the talent available, he just didn't chose them to go on tour and he also continues to pick his favourites (AWJ, Warburton etc).

I firmly believe his desire to try and out muscle the All Blacks that he excluded himself from some other talented players who are superb in the loose (Fraser Brown, Alex Dunbar, Hamish Watson from a Scottish persepective, many others from England and Ireland). He clearly stated from the outset he wanted players playing at the business end of the season (Finn Russell played in a tough Euro QF, Biggar didn't) and wanted winners (Finn Russell outshone Biggar in the 6N).

Sounds like Scottish grumbling and it's not but it's a small example of what I believe he got wrong. I'm willing to forget the exclusion of Scottish players in the squad and understand why he chose who he did but in doing so I believe he took a weaker squad to New Zealand than he could have, he showed he has next to no knowledge of players outside of Wales.


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## PieMan (Jul 1, 2017)

Well, well, well - excellent start and helped by a shocker from Sonny Bill. Come on the Lions!!!


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## Val (Jul 1, 2017)

If they're going to beat them they won't have a better chance, AB's down to 14, Barrett left his boots in the dressing room and it's a wet miserable day.


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## Junior (Jul 1, 2017)

Too many penalties !!!!!!!


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## Val (Jul 1, 2017)

Junior said:



			Too many penalties !!!!!!!
		
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A shocking amount to concede at this level


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## chrisd (Jul 1, 2017)

Super try!


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2017)

Just about to write we are pressing the self destruct button....then Lions try!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2017)

I've been out all morning and just got in for the try. Connor Murray, take a bow &#128079;&#128079;&#128079;


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## PieMan (Jul 1, 2017)

Come on!!!!!


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## Foxholer (Jul 1, 2017)

Don't begrudge the lead, but what a cruel (technical) way to concede it!


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## Val (Jul 1, 2017)

Can help but think we've stolen this after all of Barrett's penalty misses but I'll take it especially after I was certain we'd get roasted.


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## chrisd (Jul 1, 2017)

Awesome finish


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## Junior (Jul 1, 2017)

Val said:



			Can help but think we've stolen this after all of Barrett's penalty misses but I'll take it especially after I was certain we'd get roasted.
		
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Unbelievable finish.  Great result but a proper smash and grab.


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## PieMan (Jul 1, 2017)

What a team the All Blacks are though - incredible with 14 men.

Class interview from Kieran Read &#128079;

But this is what the Lions are about IMO. How anyone can question whether there's a place for them in the modern era after that I don't know.

Roll on next week.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2017)

Well, who'd have thought it...

Game on :thup:...


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## Foxholer (Jul 1, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Well, who'd have thought it...

Game on :thup:...
		
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It's almost as though it was (well) planned!

I have to say the Referee/TMO communication showed exactly what should happen in the 'round ball' game!


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## upsidedown (Jul 1, 2017)

Foxholer said:



			It's almost as though it was (well) planned!

I have to say the Referee/TMO communication showed exactly what should happen in the 'round ball' game!
		
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Hear hear, disappointed with all the gesticulating and posturing that was going on towards the ref at times, Lions mostly but AB's not without guilt too. Let the ref and TMO get on with it and let the footballers do all the histrionics ......

Wiil the Eden Park Fortress be breached ?


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## Captainron (Jul 1, 2017)

Here's the plan.

The All Blacks should have to start the game with 13 players. At half time they can have a 14th and at 60 minutes they can have their 15th. That would make for a great game.&#128512;


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2017)

Changes from the bench made a difference imho. Sinckler and Lawes were more dynamic. Discipline nearly handed ABs the win though. Great to take it to the decider.....massive challenge though as they will be uber fired up.


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## PieMan (Jul 1, 2017)

Captainron said:



			Here's the plan.

The All Blacks should have to start the game with 13 players. At half time they can have a 14th and at 60 minutes they can have their 15th. That would make for a great game.&#128512;
		
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Yes but to make it fairer they should start with 12 and only be allowed to finish with 14!!


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2017)

All the negativity that was spouted all week from everyone, what do you all know.................nuffin &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			All the negativity that was spouted all week from everyone, what do you all know.................nuffin &#128540;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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Lions played against 14 men and made very hard work of it and in the end helped out by poor kicking from Barrett - if the AB had a top class kicker they would have been out of sight.

They won the game but it should mask some poor areas and players that shouldn't be on the pitch


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lions played against 14 men and made very hard work of it and in the end helped out by poor kicking from Barrett - if the AB had a top class kicker they would have been out of sight.

They won the game but it should mask some poor areas and players that shouldn't be on the pitch
		
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Lions scored their try when it was 14 Vs 14, the rest of your reply is all ifs & buts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2017)

Fish said:



			Lions scored their try when it was 14 Vs 14, the rest of your reply is all ifs & buts.
		
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And when it was 14v14 they were still losing - scored the second try when they went back to 15. 

15 v 15 and the AB still win , they nearly did it with 14 - that's how good they are.


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And when it was 14v14 they were still losing - scored the second try when they went back to 15. 

15 v 15 and the AB still win , they nearly did it with 14 - that's how good they are.
		
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i don't think them going back to 15 had anything to do with the 2nd try, the momentum was clearly there, you can't say that at 15-15 they still win, its an opinion, not a fact. 

Lions did brilliantly with gifting so many points in penalties away but took there chances well when they had to. 

Set up now for a great match next week.


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And when it was 14v14 they were still losing - scored the second try when they went back to 15. 

15 v 15 and the AB still win , they nearly did it with 14 - that's how good they are.
		
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I get what you say but it was more to do with Lions poor composure, discipline and decision making in the second half rather than excellent AB play. 

Might be wrong but i think Vino was very close to being red carded. The TMO was trying to get hold of the ref before the yellow came out. He may have played himself out of the decider.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2017)

Piece said:



			I get what you say but it was more to do with Lions poor composure, discipline and decision making in the second half rather than excellent AB play. 

Might be wrong but i think Vino was very close to being red carded. The TMO was trying to get hold of the ref before the yellow came out. He may have played himself out of the decider.
		
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Yeah the TMO was certainly looking for the red card so can see McGrath coming in and Mako on the bench. The guy that come on for Williams was breaking the line all day especially  at Farrell who tackled well but just couldn't stop him. It was a scrappy ill disciplined game with that red card key - AB will react and 15 v 15 will be a big win at Eden


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## Tashyboy (Jul 1, 2017)

They are saying that sonny who got red carded could be in for a lengthy ban. Come what may he should be missing for the last test. That is massive for the AB.


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## Hobbit (Jul 1, 2017)

Thoroughly enjoyed the game. As usual, the All Blacks played pretty close to the line in terms of aggression and rightly got done for it on a number of occasions. The Lions were a little slow to the breakdown far too often but the AB's weren't good enough to capitalise on it. If it was boxing the AB's might, note might, have won on points but it wasn't. The score tells the story, i.e. the better team across all depts. won.

Would 15'v'15 have made a difference? If I could answer questions like that I'd do the lottery.

The next Test will be one almighty battle. I doubt the AB's will play that badly again, and I doubt the Lions will either.


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## fundy (Jul 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			They are saying that sonny who got red carded could be in for a lengthy ban. Come what may he should be missing for the last test. That is massive for the AB.
		
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goes in front of a 3 man disciplinary panel tomorrow, the big plus for the Lions is all 3 are Aussies!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			They are saying that sonny who got red carded could be in for a lengthy ban. Come what may he should be missing for the last test. That is massive for the AB.
		
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Lauampe was very impressive of the bench - breaking the line whilst targeting Farrell a number of occasions whilst still,solid in defence , was just missing runners looking for the offload when he was breaking - watching him in this game and the midweek one he is possibly an upgrade on Williams


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## MegaSteve (Jul 2, 2017)

Sean O'Brien has been cited... If banned will be a huge miss for last test...


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## Val (Jul 2, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Sean O'Brien has been cited... If banned will be a huge miss for last test...
		
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He will be a huge loss and I think he will see a ban but Tipuric is a handy fill but would suspect a switch to 7 for Warburton with maybe OMahony or Stander at 6.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2017)

O Brien been cleared by citing panel


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2017)

Sonny Bill Williams been deemed reckless but not intentional and banned for 4 weeks, seems fair enough


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## MegaSteve (Jul 2, 2017)

fundy said:



			Sonny Bill Williams been deemed reckless but not intentional and banned for 4 weeks, seems fair enough
		
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Well, I don't suppose he intended it to be a head shot... 
But, he certainly intended to rattle Watsons cage...


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## fundy (Jul 2, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Well, I don't suppose he intended it to be a head shot... 
But, he certainly intended to rattle Watsons cage...
		
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For sure, intention was a hard body shot that then became high as watson dropped down, very hard to prove intent at head height with watson dipping down


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## Val (Jul 2, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			O Brien been cleared by citing panel
		
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Good news but have to say I'm surprised he didn't get a ban, I've seen them given for the same offence


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## IanM (Jul 2, 2017)

Next door neighbour had a tenner on Draw at half time...Lions Win full time.   50/1

The Milky Bars are on him!!!


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## fundy (Jul 5, 2017)

Lions unchanged for the final test, wouldnt be my choice but then me and Gatland see things very very differently


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## PieMan (Jul 6, 2017)

fundy said:



			Lions unchanged for the final test, wouldnt be my choice but then me and Gatland see things very very differently
		
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Think Mako can consider himself fortunate after his crazy 10 minutes in the 2nd half and subsequent sin binning. Probably the right call - cannot change a winning team and all that. Would like to see Lawes come on earlier though - thought he was great when he did last week.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2017)

PieMan said:



			Think Mako can consider himself fortunate after his crazy 10 minutes in the 2nd half and subsequent sin binning. Probably the right call - cannot change a winning team and all that. Would like to see Lawes come on earlier though - thought he was great when he did last week.
		
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Think Lawes should start and agree Mako is very lucky but you can see why he went for the same team - 20 point gap defeat


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## PieMan (Jul 6, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think Lawes should start and agree Mako is very lucky but you can see why he went for the same team - 20 point gap defeat
		
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Yes mate I'll think we'll beat the ABs by about 20 too.......&#128514;&#128514;


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## Val (Jul 6, 2017)

Unsure of the weather forecast but IMO playing the same starting line up on s a mistake, MV should have been dropped as should have been AWJ. T'eo should start at 12 with Farrell at 10 and I'd be tempted to start Webb over Murray to get some spark and sniping early on.

I see a defeat and a heavy one at that if it's not raining.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 6, 2017)

Val said:



			Unsure of the weather forecast but IMO playing the same starting line up on s a mistake, MV should have been dropped as should have been AWJ. T'eo should start at 12 with Farrell at 10 and I'd be tempted to start Webb over Murray to get some spark and sniping early on.

I see a defeat and a heavy one at that if it's not raining.
		
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I was very much in agreeance about AWJ but have since seen so much analysis showing things he did that wouldn't normally been spotted. Add to that his presence in the team and I can see why he is there. Can see him coming off a tad earlier though. 

I think we have to beat them playing expansive rugby, therefore agree with sticking with Far/Sexton

Would love to see Webb, think he is brilliant, but sticking with the irish 9-10 for the majority and Webb to come on towards the end isn't the worst plan!

Biggest surprise for me is Mako staying. Must be more careful with pens!


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## Kellfire (Jul 8, 2017)

Wow.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2017)

Amazing Battle and fully deserved result - respect to both


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think Lawes should start and agree Mako is very lucky but you can see why he went for the same team - 20 point gap defeat
		
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Good call &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## ScienceBoy (Jul 8, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Good call &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
		
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TBH there was some luck and taking of opportunities by slimmest of margins.

I think a slightly better pick as called before the game would have snuck a win.


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## Imurg (Jul 8, 2017)

All that blood, sweat and tears and they could have just gone to the pub and decided it like Real Men......


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## MegaSteve (Jul 8, 2017)

Sorry, still don't care too much for Gatland...

Think both sets of players have good reason to feel disappointed with the outcome...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 8, 2017)

ScienceBoy said:



			TBH there was some luck and taking of opportunities by slimmest of margins.

I think a slightly better pick as called before the game would have snuck a win.
		
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Except he stated twice we stood no chance in this game and we had no chance prior to the 2nd test.


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## User62651 (Jul 8, 2017)

What about instead of a draw they should have a countback - if match drawn on points, look at most tries, then drop goals, then penalties then conversions to decide winner. If all those are even then ok its a draw. Penalty kicking is the most tedious part of union for those of us with a modest interest in the sport. Take far too long, should just award yards to opposition. For me NZ scoring 2 tries to 0 makes them the better side on the day.
Try scoring should maybe have more points imo so the onus is on that element.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2017)

Fantastic match and a testament to the fitness of a modern player. I wonder if they could have done a period of extra time but to be fair they had left most of it on the pitch after the 80 minutes


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