# Am I a bad person?



## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

Following on from another thread.
I do not like to see males kissing before the watershed.
It seems this had made me a sexist,homophobic person.
I do not think I am but I also dislike the advert for insurance featuring stereotypes of gays of both sexes posturing and hip grinding in the early afternoon.
I am almost certainly one of the older men on the forum and feel I have travelled a long way from my formative years in the 1940/s and 1950/s .
Just my view but I feel there is much more male on male sexual action on TV recently and that in itself is not the problem but the feeling to me that there is an agenda to this.
I await my condemnation with some trepidation.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

If you would condemn two men kissing or two women kissing in a situation in which you wouldn't object to a man and a woman kissing then, yes, the problem is you.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 4, 2017)

I don't really like to see men kissing if I'm honest. 
But I'm happy to admit that the problem is with me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Following on from another thread.
I do not like to see males kissing before the watershed.
It seems this had made me a sexist,homophobic person.
I do not think I am but I also dislike the advert for insurance featuring stereotypes of gays of both sexes posturing and hip grinding in the early afternoon.
I am almost certainly one of the older men on the forum and feel I have travelled a long way from my formative years in the 1940/s and 1950/s .
Just my view but I feel there is much more male on male sexual action on TV recently and that in itself is not the problem but the feeling to me that there is an agenda to this.
I await my condemnation with some trepidation.
		
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If you have no problem with a male and a female kissing at the same time then Yes it more than likely makes you homophobic 

There is no agenda - there is just more equality than before.


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

FD  I accept that point .
What are your views of the hip grinding advert I mention?


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			FD  I accept that point .
What are your views of the hip grinding advert I mention?
		
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Haven't seen it - what's it for?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			FD  I accept that point .
What are your views of the hip grinding advert I mention?
		
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Do you mean this ? 

[video=youtube_share;l8kn86SB-Fg]https://youtu.be/l8kn86SB-Fg[/video]


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

I admire your honesty. Really IMO if it's just single sex kissing that you have an issue with then you need to have a little think about your view of the world. Only you will know if you're homophobic or not, but it's not appropriate to distinguish between hetro & homo. We're not talking pre watershed sexual contact, just affection.


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

Car insurance I think.
My wife felt strongly enough about it to contact Advertising Standards about it.
They replied that though others had complained many had like the bump and grind moves and pelvic thrusts.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean this ? 

[video=youtube_share;l8kn86SB-Fg]https://youtu.be/l8kn86SB-Fg[/video]
		
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That's just a rubbish advert !!! My kids have mimicked that. I don't like the overt sexualisation of this when kids innocently copy it but hetro or homo sexuality is irrelevant.


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

therod said:



			I admire your honesty. Really IMO if it's just single sex kissing that you have an issue with then you need to have a little think about your view of the world. Only you will know if your homophobic or not, but it's not appropriate to distinguish between hetro & homo. We're not talking pre watershed sexual contact, just affection.
		
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With honesty ,what is your view of the advert I mentioned?
I cannot do links but I am sure you can google it,if ,like FD you have not seen it.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			With ho esty ,what is your view of the advert I mentione?
I cannot do links but I am sure you can google it,if ,like FD you have not seen it.
		
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It's a terrible advert that my kids have copied. The sex of the people grinding is irrelevant IMO


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

Not in mine I am afraid.
You mention affection above and again in all honesty it is the frenzy of tongues et al they I feel is more the norm.


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean this ? 

[video=youtube_share;l8kn86SB-Fg]https://youtu.be/l8kn86SB-Fg[/video]
		
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Thats the one Phil,I await your pyschoanalysis with some trepidation.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Not in mine I am afraid.
You mention affection above and again in all honesty it is the frenzy of tongues et al they I feel is more the norm.
		
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What about if you saw this in the street? A couple of fellas kissing?


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Not in mine I am afraid.
You mention affection above and again in all honesty it is the frenzy of tongues et al they I feel is more the norm.
		
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Well I can't find it by googling I'm afraid unless you can help with the name of the firm being advertised?

If the same ad featured heterosexual couples instead of gay ones would you have the same reaction?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Thats the one Phil,I await your pyschoanalysis with some trepidation.
		
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For me it has nothing to do with anything sexual - it's just a rubbish cringeworthy advert of people looking weird and having a dance off. Do you believe they are gay ? Based on what.

You complained about it ?!


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

therod said:



			What about if you saw this in the street? A couple of fellas kissing?
		
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I would put my hand on my botttle and glass and scurry away quickly!


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Thats the one Phil,I await your pyschoanalysis with some trepidation.
		
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Really? That's the ad you're complaining about? I thought you said it had gays in it?


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Really? That's the ad you're complaining about? I thought you said it had gays in it?
		
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None so blind as those who will not see ,
Lol


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For me it has nothing to do with anything sexual - it's just a rubbish cringeworthy advert of people looking weird and having a dance off. Do you believe they are gay ? Based on what.

You complained about it ?!
		
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No,
Read my response,
my wife complained.


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you mean this ? 

[video=youtube_share;l8kn86SB-Fg]https://youtu.be/l8kn86SB-Fg[/video]
		
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I auditioned for that &#128540;&#128378;


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I auditioned for that &#128540;&#128378;
		
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Which one are you!
Lol


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I auditioned for that &#128540;&#128378;
		
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That would be properly offensive


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			None so blind as those who will not see ,
Lol
		
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Can't believe I fell for this - what a WUM.

:rofl:


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## Imurg (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I auditioned for that &#128540;&#128378;
		
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At least I auditioned to be a builder....&#128541;


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## One Planer (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I auditioned for that &#128540;&#128378;
		
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You mean is not you :smirk:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 4, 2017)

Just as we expect modern society to be tolerant and inclusive, we should also recognise some people were brought up in a different era when society wasn't so tolerant or inclusive, the whole premise of Equality and Diversity is impact not intent and whilst we should strive to educate people we also should recognise not everyone will move and catch up at the same pace.
Is that particular advert gay, no, not imo, could some people perceive men in tight shorts wearing high heels be seen as effiminate, yes, 

Are you a bad Person? No, not in my book, but, hopefully (not in a derogatory sense) you're part of a dying breed.


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## Hobbit (Feb 4, 2017)

Sorry but I'm a bit of a prude. I don't mind whatever gender is with whatever gender but I don't like seeing passionate wrestling in public.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 4, 2017)

Casual public shows of affection are great, makes the world go round, holding hands, hugs, peck on the cheek, staring into your loved ones eyes over a coffee etc

But tonsil tickling whichever gender or mix there of isnt something I wish to see, Go get a room


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## Fish (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Which one are you!
Lol
		
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The good Looking one with a touch of rouge to highlight my cheek bones and a soft but subtle lip gloss, I broke my heel in the warm up so missed the actual take they kept &#128542;&#128540;&#128378;


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2017)

Heyup Mal, well ave played golf with you and I can confirm to the world that you are not a bad person, but you are a bad golfer. &#128540;
Here is my grief, we are educated to be open to a multi cultural society, we are told to be tolerant to other people's  beliefs. I get that and fully understand that. But i find it is becoming more and more " one way". Why are you being castigated when you disagree or disprove of something. Why do people not respect your view when you are being honest, but you have to accept others views. 
One has to understand that you have been through nearly eighty years of massive change and it is a lot to take in and accept what is now " the norm"
Work on your swing not your views, ave played golf with you and would play with you again tomorrow, that would not happen if you were a bad man.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

^^^^ can't quote all that, but if anyone's views are diversive then they deserve to be castigated. 
It's normal deal with it.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

therod said:



			^^^^ can't quote all that, but if anyone's views are diversive then they deserve to be castigated. 
It's normal deal with it.
		
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What do you mean by Diversive views?  Doesn't diversive just mean 'Different' or 'Varied'


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

We are wired up the way we are and our perceptions tend to be subject to a number of things so it's a bit disingenuous to castigate others views.  Surely we are all entitled to them as long as they are not used to cause distress to others.


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## bluewolf (Feb 4, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			We are wired up the way we are and our perceptions tend to be subject to a number of things so it's a bit disingenuous to castigate others views.  Surely we are all entitled to them as long as they are not used to cause distress to others.
		
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Can't argue with that. 

Society is changing. It's becoming more open and tolerant, but it's a slow process. Major change cannot happen overnight.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			What do you mean by Diversive views?  Doesn't diversive just mean 'Different' or 'Varied'
		
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Wrong choice of word. Meant causing division in society. Any view publically aired that alienates a section of society is wrong.

You've lept to the defence of the grey army before. If I said that IMO old people kissing was horrible, how would u react?


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			We are wired up the way we are and our perceptions tend to be subject to a number of things so it's a bit disingenuous to castigate others views.  Surely we are all entitled to them as long as they are not used to cause distress to others.
		
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public airing may cause distress to others. In this case they were publically aired


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

therod said:



			Wrong choice of word. Meant causing division in society. Any view publically aired that alienates a section of society is wrong.

You've lept to the defence of the grey army before. If I said that IMO old people kissing was horrible, how would u react?
		
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Is this serious comment?
And FD sugests I am a WUM!
I still hold my wifes hand when we are out and not just to stay upright!!!!!
Grey army indeed ,do you mean old?


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## Alex1975 (Feb 4, 2017)

Whatever anyone wants to do that does not harm me, I'm great with. It's your world, enjoy it.

On the topic of the add, I would not want my little girl to see it because she will copy it and it's ... adult?!, um, I guess sexualised. I want her to stay a little girl as long as possible.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

therod said:



			public airing may cause distress to others. In this case they were publically aired
		
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I'm not referring to the advert as I don't see as that's anything to do with homosexuality.  What I mean is that we all have certain ways of seeing the world about us and these reasons are not as simple as you're old and I'm young so that's the reason you are wrong.  For example I don't like to see anyone kissing intimately in public no matter what their sexuality, Rod will probably suggest that's because I'm one of the 'Grey Army' but do you know what, I find someone publicly saying that to me offensive as it suggests my age disallows me of somehow having an objective view.   As I said previously, we all have our perceptions and we should have freedom of thought and speech as long as we are not deliberately offending others.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

We're in agreement then. Objection to overt public affection is ok as long as that objection is inclusive. Hetro, homo, grey etc


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			I'm not referring to the advert as I don't see as that's anything to do with homosexuality.  What I mean is that we all have certain ways of seeing the world about us and these reasons are not as simple as you're old and I'm young so that's the reason you are wrong.  For example I don't like to see anyone kissing intimately in public no matter what their sexuality, Rod will probably suggest that's because I'm one of the 'Grey Army' but do you know what, I find someone publicly saying that to me offensive as it suggests my age disallows me of somehow having an objective view.   As I said previously, we all have our perceptions and we should have freedom of thought and speech as long as we are not deliberately offending others.
		
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This is exactly it. I thought this was going to be a serious thread about attitudes towards homosexuality only to find it was about an advert that has nothing to do with homosexuality other than trying an absurd take on a crude stereotype as an attempt at humour. Anyone who was actually offended by that ad to the point of complaining needs to take a long look at themselves.

I agree with you about attitudes. I also don't enjoy people playing tonsil tennis in public but they can go beyond what I find comfortable without actually doing anything wrong. I know and accept that so wouldn't do or say anything.

I can also accept that people over a certain age (and I include myself) were brought up in a culture that said "homosexuality was wrong" and those attitudes were ingrained in all of us. That's why so many gay people found it hard to accept their sexuality. Fortunately times are changing. So there's nothing wrong with someone who isn't comfortable seeing gay people on the telly, provided they realise intellectually that there's nothing wrong with it and just accept it's out there. Personally, I have a problem with peas, awful things, but I know that it's just me and plenty of people like them so I don't feel the need to phone the BBC everytime they serve them up in the Cafe in Albert Square.


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 4, 2017)

Im a bad man


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



View attachment 21881


Im a bad man 

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It's OK Phil. I'm the one with the problem.....


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			This is exactly it. I thought this was going to be a serious thread about attitudes towards homosexuality only to find it was about an advert that has nothing to do with homosexuality other than trying an absurd take on a crude stereotype as an attempt at humour. Anyone who was actually offended by that ad to the point of complaining needs to take a long look at themselves.

I agree with you about attitudes. I also don't enjoy people playing tonsil tennis in public but they can go beyond what I find comfortable without actually doing anything wrong. I know and accept that so wouldn't do or say anything.

I can also accept that people over a certain age (and I include myself) were brought up in a culture that said "homosexuality was wrong" and those attitudes were ingrained in all of us. That's why so many gay people found it hard to accept their sexuality. Fortunately times are changing. So there's nothing wrong with someone who isn't comfortable seeing gay people on the telly, provided they realise intellectually that there's nothing wrong with it and just accept it's out there. Personally, I have a problem with peas, awful things, but I know that it's just me and plenty of people like them so I don't feel the need to phone the BBC everytime they serve them up in the Cafe in Albert Square.
		
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Bit of hyperbole I think FD, no one phoned the BBC.
I did actually start this thread in  a serious feeling of being labelled myself.
As so often on the forum there are sensible comments and some not so ,in my opinion ,of course.
It seems some commentators do not read the whole thread but latch onto  the things that suit their own views.
I believe in live and let live but not so sure that pressure groups do the same
Anyway I feel a little happier at the moment, England have just beaten France despite not playing their best rugby.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			This is exactly it. I thought this was going to be a serious thread about attitudes towards homosexuality only to find it was about an advert that has nothing to do with homosexuality other than trying an absurd take on a crude stereotype as an attempt at humour. Anyone who was actually offended by that ad to the point of complaining needs to take a long look at themselves.

I agree with you about attitudes. I also don't enjoy people playing tonsil tennis in public but they can go beyond what I find comfortable without actually doing anything wrong. I know and accept that so wouldn't do or say anything.

I can also accept that people over a certain age (and I include myself) were brought up in a culture that said "homosexuality was wrong" and those attitudes were ingrained in all of us. That's why so many gay people found it hard to accept their sexuality. Fortunately times are changing. So there's nothing wrong with someone who isn't comfortable seeing gay people on the telly, provided they realise intellectually that there's nothing wrong with it and just accept it's out there. Personally, I have a problem with peas, awful things, but I know that it's just me and plenty of people like them so I don't feel the need to phone the BBC everytime they serve them up in the Cafe in Albert Square.
		
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:thup:

Not even petit pois?


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's OK Phil. I'm the one with the problem..... 

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Absolutely not, they must walk around with their eyes closed. This place is hardly a true  reflection of the real picture.....fortunately


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

therod said:



			Absolutely not, they must walk around with their eyes closed. This place is hardly a true  reflection of the real picture.....fortunately
		
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Struth, she was talking about peas.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			Struth, she was talking about peas.
		
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So was I, Lachanophobic knobs


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

therod said:



			So was I, Lachanophobic knobs
		
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Lost me on that one then.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Bit of hyperbole I think FD, no one phoned the BBC.
I did actually start this thread in  a serious feeling of being labelled myself.
As so often on the forum there are sensible comments and some not so ,in my opinion ,of course.
It seems some commentators do not read the whole thread but latch onto  the things that suit their own views.
I believe in live and let live but not so sure that pressure groups do the same
Anyway I feel a little happier at the moment, England have just beaten France despite not playing their best rugby.
		
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Not hyperbole, I was giving a different analogy. 

Sorry, I initially engaged very seriously with this thread but lost the plot a bit when I realised which advert had provoked it. Really doesn't seem much to do with homosexuality to me, just a pretty irritating advert.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			:thup:

Not even petit pois?
		
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Whatever you want to cook up in the privacy of your own kitchen is fine but wish you wouldn't keep shoving them down our throats...


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Whatever you want to cook up in the privacy of your own kitchen is fine but wish you wouldn't keep shoving them down our throats...
		
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That slipped off the tongue.


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## User20205 (Feb 4, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			Lost me on that one then.
		
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 I had to googlephil it


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Following on from another thread.
I do not like to see males kissing before the watershed.
It seems this had made me a sexist,homophobic person.
I do not think I am but I also dislike the advert for insurance featuring stereotypes of gays of both sexes posturing and hip grinding in the early afternoon.
I am almost certainly one of the older men on the forum and feel I have travelled a long way from my formative years in the 1940/s and 1950/s .
Just my view but I feel there is much more male on male sexual action on TV recently and that in itself is not the problem but the feeling to me that there is an agenda to this.
I await my condemnation with some trepidation.
		
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I agree with all that you have posted and I was born in the 50's so maybe a bit of a generation thing, the most telling point of your post for me was the comment that there is so much male on male sexual action on tv as you put it.

I feel this is out of proportion and not a reflection of the world I live in and makes me feel uncomfortable watching.

The advert which featured two males kissing was shown when my 3 grandchildren aged 8 ,7 and 5 were down and made me feel uncomfortable, this was probebly the first time they would have seen this, so this got me thinking afterwards what I would have said if they asked any questions.

I would like to think I would have been honest and truthful with them and explained if two people love each other it doesn't matter what gender they are.

Does this make me a bad person for not wanting to watch so much of this on tv especially pre watershed? I would hope not but some might not agree.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 4, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree with all that you have posted and I was born in the 50's so maybe a bit of a generation thing, the most telling point of your post for me was the comment that there is so much male on male sexual action on tv as you put it.

I feel this is out of proportion and not a reflection of the world I live in and makes me feel uncomfortable watching.

The advert which featured two males kissing was shown when my 3 grandchildren aged 8 ,7 and 5 were down and made me feel uncomfortable, this was probebly the first time they would have seen this, so this got me thinking afterwards what I would have said if they asked any questions.

I would like to think I would have been honest and truthful with them and explained if two people love each other it doesn't matter what gender they are.

Does this make me a bad person for not wanting to watch so much of this on tv especially pre watershed? I would hope not but some might not agree.
		
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As been asked - would you have felt any different if it was a male or female kissing ? 

The real world has couples from same sex everywhere - it's real life and from what I seen is still under represented within the media , sport etc because some still see it negatively and people in same sex relationships are still treated poorly and not fully accepted in society when imo they should be.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 4, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			I agree with all that you have posted and I was born in the 50's so maybe a bit of a generation thing, the most telling point of your post for me was the comment that there is so much male on male sexual action on tv as you put it.

I feel this is out of proportion and not a reflection of the world I live in and makes me feel uncomfortable watching.

The advert which featured two males kissing was shown when my 3 grandchildren aged 8 ,7 and 5 were down and made me feel uncomfortable, this was probebly the first time they would have seen this, so this got me thinking afterwards what I would have said if they asked any questions.

I would like to think I would have been honest and truthful with them and explained if two people love each other it doesn't matter what gender they are.

Does this make me a bad person for not wanting to watch so much of this on tv especially pre watershed? I would hope not but some might not agree.
		
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Mr Rib it is part of the world you live in just maybe not your street.

ah told you last week someone had a pea phobia, mines sprouts, some folks are pot noodles.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As been asked - would you have felt any different if it was a male or female kissing ? 

The real world has couples from same sex everywhere - it's real life and from what I seen is still under represented within the media , sport etc because some still see it negatively and people in same sex relationships are still treated poorly and not fully accepted in society when imo they should be.
		
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Well I will be totally honest and say if it was to females kissing after the watershed I wouldn't object to it .

Why state the real world has couples from the same sex everywhere- its real life,

We all know that .

I don't agree with you saying it's under represented in the media not from what I see on tv.

Sport etc. is a area I would agree with you on but then that's not what was asked.


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## Rlburnside (Feb 4, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Mr Rib it is part of the world you live in just maybe not your street.

ah told you last week someone had a pea phobia, mines sprouts, some folks are pot noodles.
		
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Cant understand that reply, would suggest you re-read the post again and try to understand it better.:thup:


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not hyperbole, I was giving a different analogy. 

Sorry, I initially engaged very seriously with this thread but lost the plot a bit when I realised which advert had provoked it. Really doesn't seem much to do with homosexuality to me, just a pretty irritating advert.
		
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Sorry FD,
that advert was not the main point of my thread and did not instigate this thread.
My obviously flawed opinion is that more often than before it seems to be obligatory to show male on male deep throat kissing.
I repeat I dislike it,  as I feel I am being brainwashed by the media.I may well be wrong but it is an  honestly held belief.
I interpret that distasteful ad as reflecting homosexual values as portrayed in coverage of gay parades at times making the national and local news.
To me they seem to represent not a bid for equality but a bid for notoriety.


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## dewsweeper (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			Whatever you want to cook up in the privacy of your own kitchen is fine but wish you wouldn't keep shoving them down our throats...
		
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FD,
That is funny,honest .
Careful you dont get an infraction for being rude.
Lol


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 4, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Sorry FD,
that advert was not the main point of my thread and did not instigate this thread.
My obviously flawed opinion is that more often than before it seems to be obligatory to show male on male deep throat kissing.
I repeat I dislike it,  as I feel I am being brainwashed by the media.I may well be wrong but it is an  honestly held belief.
I interpret that distasteful ad as reflecting homosexual values as portrayed in coverage of gay parades at times making the national and local news.
To me they seem to represent not a bid for equality but a bid for notoriety.
		
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It's difficult really to comment when I obviously have a diametrically different opinion. As I said earlier, I can understand your discomfort but if any brainwashing has happened it was during your upbringing, it's by conservative commentators nowadays. There is very little visibility of gay people in the mainstream media, we are grossly underrepresented both in entertainment and in advertising. Often when there is a gay character he or she is portrayed negatively. It is vanishingly rare to have gay characters in programmes where their sexuality is just a facet of their personality and not a central focus of the the story.

This advert is an ugly parody of gay men which seems to have fed your prejudices. That's more grounds for complaint, to be honest, but even if a gay man complained about it I'd feel it an overreaction to something that was clearly meant to be a bit absurd.

Bottom line is that gay people exist, we are normal and you have the choice to switch off if you don't want to see it but why should we continue to be marginalised by  such opinions? 

I understand that some people find it hard to understand or relate to. You can't see that the attraction you feel for the opposite sex is exactly the same as someone else feels for the same sex. I've dealt with my parents and grandparents coming to terms with it. It confounded their expectations, their hopes, but someone they loved turned out to be gay. I'm sure they will subsequently have spent a lot of time thinking about some things they said in front of me growing up, before I came out and how it made my formative years more difficult. It could happen to anyone, it could happen to you if you have kids or grandkids.

So I don't expect people to see it on TV and automatically be comfortable and enjoy it. But I do want to live in a society where people accept that not everyone is the same and that people who are different should be able to see others like themselves on TV and in a positive light. So if you're uncomfortable about it, that's unfortunate but it's ok. But if you feel that your discomfort means you need to complain to try and prevent it from being shown, you're going to far and being unreasonable. 

Live and let live.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's difficult really to comment when I obviously have a diametrically different opinion. As I said earlier, I can understand your discomfort but if any brainwashing has happened it was during your upbringing, it's by conservative commentators nowadays. There is very little visibility of gay people in the mainstream media, we are grossly underrepresented both in entertainment and in advertising. Often when there is a gay character he or she is portrayed negatively. It is vanishingly rare to have gay characters in programmes where their sexuality is just a facet of their personality and not a central focus of the the story.

This advert is an ugly parody of gay men which seems to have fed your prejudices. That's more grounds for complaint, to be honest, but even if a gay man complained about it I'd feel it an overreaction to something that was clearly meant to be a bit absurd.

Bottom line is that gay people exist, we are normal and you have the choice to switch off if you don't want to see it but why should we continue to be marginalised by  such opinions? 

I understand that some people find it hard to understand or relate to. You can't see that the attraction you feel for the opposite sex is exactly the same as someone else feels for the same sex. I've dealt with my parents and grandparents coming to terms with it. It confounded their expectations, their hopes, but someone they loved turned out to be gay. I'm sure they will subsequently have spent a lot of time thinking about some things they said in front of me growing up, before I came out and how it made my formative years more difficult. It could happen to anyone, it could happen to you if you have kids or grandkids.

So I don't expect people to see it on TV and automatically be comfortable and enjoy it. But I do want to live in a society where people accept that not everyone is the same and that people who are different should be able to see others like themselves on TV and in a positive light. So if you're uncomfortable about it, that's unfortunate but it's ok. But if you feel that your discomfort means you need to complain to try and prevent it from being shown, you're going to far and being unreasonable. 

Live and let live.
		
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That's a very thought provoking post.  Thank you Karen.


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## MadAdey (Feb 4, 2017)

Fish said:



			I auditioned for that &#63004;&#62842;
		
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Thanks Robin, now I've got a horrifying image of you in hot pants dancing in my head :mmm:


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## fundy (Feb 4, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's difficult really to comment when I obviously have a diametrically different opinion. As I said earlier, I can understand your discomfort but if any brainwashing has happened it was during your upbringing, it's by conservative commentators nowadays. There is very little visibility of gay people in the mainstream media, we are grossly underrepresented both in entertainment and in advertising. Often when there is a gay character he or she is portrayed negatively. It is vanishingly rare to have gay characters in programmes where their sexuality is just a facet of their personality and not a central focus of the the story.

This advert is an ugly parody of gay men which seems to have fed your prejudices. That's more grounds for complaint, to be honest, but even if a gay man complained about it I'd feel it an overreaction to something that was clearly meant to be a bit absurd.

Bottom line is that gay people exist, we are normal and you have the choice to switch off if you don't want to see it but why should we continue to be marginalised by  such opinions? 

I understand that some people find it hard to understand or relate to. You can't see that the attraction you feel for the opposite sex is exactly the same as someone else feels for the same sex. I've dealt with my parents and grandparents coming to terms with it. It confounded their expectations, their hopes, but someone they loved turned out to be gay. I'm sure they will subsequently have spent a lot of time thinking about some things they said in front of me growing up, before I came out and how it made my formative years more difficult. It could happen to anyone, it could happen to you if you have kids or grandkids.

So I don't expect people to see it on TV and automatically be comfortable and enjoy it. But I do want to live in a society where people accept that not everyone is the same and that people who are different should be able to see others like themselves on TV and in a positive light. So if you're uncomfortable about it, that's unfortunate but it's ok. But if you feel that your discomfort means you need to complain to try and prevent it from being shown, you're going to far and being unreasonable. 

Live and let live.
		
Click to expand...

You're a credit to yourself (and this forum) FD. Considering some of what is posted ,some but not all (and rarely meant to be) malicious, you continue to post in such a genuine and credible manner on what most would deem controversial subjects. Stay true and keep posting in that manner.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			You're a credit to yourself (and this forum) FD. Considering some of what is posted ,some but not all (and rarely meant to be) malicious, you continue to post in such a genuine and credible manner on what most would deem controversial subjects. Stay true and keep posting in that manner.
		
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How lovely, you'll make me cry! Thank you!


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2017)

fundy said:



			You're a credit to yourself (and this forum) FD. Considering some of what is posted ,some but not all (and rarely meant to be) malicious, you continue to post in such a genuine and credible manner on what most would deem controversial subjects. Stay true and keep posting in that manner.
		
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I said as much a couple of years ago when there was a thread about genuine posters and for me FD is head & shoulders above most if not all, I may not agree at times in full or in part what Karen has written but it's always worth reading to get an alternative opinion and is always well put over, even when she uses words I have to Google because I'm a thickie &#128540;


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## IanG (Feb 5, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's difficult really to comment when I obviously have a diametrically different opinion. As I said earlier, I can understand your discomfort but if any brainwashing has happened it was during your upbringing, it's by conservative commentators nowadays. There is very little visibility of gay people in the mainstream media, we are grossly underrepresented both in entertainment and in advertising. Often when there is a gay character he or she is portrayed negatively. It is vanishingly rare to have gay characters in programmes where their sexuality is just a facet of their personality and not a central focus of the the story.

This advert is an ugly parody of gay men which seems to have fed your prejudices. That's more grounds for complaint, to be honest, but even if a gay man complained about it I'd feel it an overreaction to something that was clearly meant to be a bit absurd.

Bottom line is that gay people exist, we are normal and you have the choice to switch off if you don't want to see it but why should we continue to be marginalised by  such opinions? 

I understand that some people find it hard to understand or relate to. You can't see that the attraction you feel for the opposite sex is exactly the same as someone else feels for the same sex. I've dealt with my parents and grandparents coming to terms with it. It confounded their expectations, their hopes, but someone they loved turned out to be gay. I'm sure they will subsequently have spent a lot of time thinking about some things they said in front of me growing up, before I came out and how it made my formative years more difficult. It could happen to anyone, it could happen to you if you have kids or grandkids.

So I don't expect people to see it on TV and automatically be comfortable and enjoy it. But I do want to live in a society where people accept that not everyone is the same and that people who are different should be able to see others like themselves on TV and in a positive light. So if you're uncomfortable about it, that's unfortunate but it's ok. But if you feel that your discomfort means you need to complain to try and prevent it from being shown, you're going to far and being unreasonable. 

Live and let live.
		
Click to expand...

Beautifully put :thup:


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## bluewolf (Feb 5, 2017)

Fish said:



			I said as much a couple of years ago when there was a thread about genuine posters and for me FD is head & shoulders above most if not all, I may not agree at times in full or in part what Karen has written but it's always worth reading to get an alternative opinion and is always well put over, even when she uses words I have to Google because I'm a thickie &#128540;
		
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And she'd beat most of us on the course as well &#128077;


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## Craigg (Feb 5, 2017)

Can't see what all the fuss is about personally. I couldn't give a hoot what other people get up to. As long as people are happy with their lot, I'm happy for them.
If you have a problem with gay people, then that's your problem. Life really is too short.


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## dewsweeper (Feb 5, 2017)

Very good post FD and indeed giving me much to ponder.
I am bowing out now for a period of self reflection.
As to my question, I have to state I do not feel "a bad person" just a little at odds with some aspects of modern society.
I will have to "get a life" or "suck it up" in modern parlance.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 5, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Very good post FD and indeed giving me much to ponder.
I am bowing out now for a period of self reflection.
As to my question, I have to state I do not feel "a bad person" just a little at odds with some aspects of modern society.
		
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That's all anyone can ask of you. FWIW, I don't believe anything you've posted on this makes you a "bad person". :thup:


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## Fish (Feb 5, 2017)

bluewolf said:



			And she'd beat most of us on the course as well &#128077;
		
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Hmm, I'd try and make those 16 shots I've got count though &#128540;&#127948;&#65039;&#9971;


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## Papas1982 (Feb 5, 2017)

Re the op I don't think it makes you a bad person at all. 

Thriughout time there here have been many changes of opinion on all number of things. Some trivial, others more serious. I think the fact you acknowledge your beliefs are the common ones show that you're aware of any short comings. 

Generations were here taught things were wrong, to change those beliefs are difficult to say the least. You don't seem to show any maliciousness in your thoughts, simply a lack of understanding. As was said previously, I don think people of older age are wrong for their beliefs, the on,y danger is if younger people continue to share the beliefs.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 5, 2017)

Times change......so should we.
I am slightly younger than OP and I remember laughing at the scene in Porridge that featured the black Scot joke.

I pretty sure I would not laugh at it now


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## MadAdey (Feb 5, 2017)

Times change a lot and it easy to get left behind in the society you grew up in. Go back a few generations and they would look down their nose at a woman who's dress wan't long enough to cover their ankles, let alone showing just about everything like a mini skirt does. 

Older generations would have been disgusted the first time anything sexual was put on TV, but the younger ones would not have a problem. I remember Points of View on the BBC when I was younger and you would have people writing in to complain if they saw someone put their hand on someone in a sexual way before the watershed, but now it is the norm.

I think I'm from the first generation (I'm 40) that has an open minded approach to all people as that is the society we were brought up in. From the first lesbian scene on TV in Brookside, to racial and sexual harassment really becoming a total no-no in the workplace. Gay pride marches was something that you saw a lot about through the 80's and pop stars not being frightened of accepting their sexuality.

Is it wrong for people from previous generations to feel uncomfortable around same sex relationships, yes, but then you have to remember that was how they were brought up. Trying to change the mindset of someone who has been on the planet for over 40 years, being told that something is wrong, will always struggle to adapt.


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## Maninblack4612 (Feb 5, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Times change......so should we.
I am slightly younger than OP and I remember laughing at the scene in Porridge that featured the black Scot joke.

*I pretty sure I would not laugh at it now*

Click to expand...

Pretty sure I would,  because it's funny,  as is the Fawlty Towers "took my girlfriend to see India"  joke. I'm not remotely racist.  I  have black & Asian friends & you might be surprised how unoffended they are by so called racist comments,  provided they know that no offence is being intended.


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## Three (Feb 5, 2017)

dewsweeper said:



			Following on from another thread.
I do not like to see males kissing before the watershed.
It seems this had made me a sexist,homophobic person.
I do not think I am but I also dislike the advert for insurance featuring stereotypes of gays of both sexes posturing and hip grinding in the early afternoon.
I am almost certainly one of the older men on the forum and feel I have travelled a long way from my formative years in the 1940/s and 1950/s .
Just my view but I feel there is much more male on male sexual action on TV recently and that in itself is not the problem but the feeling to me that there is an agenda to this.
I await my condemnation with some trepidation.
		
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You are in the vast majority, you shouldn't therefore be made to feel you have a problem.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2017)

Rlburnside said:



			Cant understand that reply, would suggest you re-read the post again and try to understand it better.:thup:
		
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Quote
I feel this is out of proportion and not a reflection of the world I live in and makes me feel uncomfortable watching.

my point on you saying that, is that it is a reflection of the world that you live in, just possibly not your street. Two males kissing on telly alla coronation st? Manchester has a large gay community based around canal st. Two males kissing in Manchester would not get a second look. Same in London, Brighton, Blackpool Nottingham, and probably a lot more places I have not mentioned. 
You have mentioned about what would you say to your kids if they asked about two men kissing on telly. I would give that question some serious thought coz one day they will see it happen in the real world and may well ask that question.
I will totally agree with you re it possibly being an age thing. Some people are born and bred on old fashioned values and I for one am not going to knock that, but the world is changing quicker than some people can adapt to.

I will give you an example, my brothers lad came out. My brother rang the family to tell everyone. My kids said they had known for years but it was his business. My mother however who is 77 this year said quote " I still love Said grandson to bits, but when we have our Christmas do this year and he turns up in a dress I will have to say something" 
My brother said " if I get hold of her I will be outta the will". She just did not know what was what and was ignorant to what she had been told. 
PMSL when me brother told me though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2017)

Three said:



			You are in the vast majority, you shouldn't therefore be made to feel you have a problem.
		
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So because something could be in the majority that makes it ok to think that way - or should I say express those thoughts in the public domain.


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## Alex1975 (Feb 5, 2017)

Maninblack4612 said:



			Pretty sure I would,  because it's funny,  as is the Fawlty Towers "took my girlfriend to see India"  joke. I'm not remotely racist.  *I  have black & Asian friends & you might be surprised how unoffended they are by so called racist comments,  provided they know that no offence is being intended.*

Click to expand...

I would love to be a fly on the wall when you leave the room......


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## Tashyboy (Feb 5, 2017)

Alex1975 said:



			I would love to be a fly on the wall when you leave the room......
		
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As odd as it may sound, one of me Bessie mates at the pit was a mixed race jamacian guy. He was gay. He got some real " pit banter" stick for being black and gay. But he gave out as much as he got.
However and this is my point, which is a point that he raised. It's not the words that are said, but how the words are said. He said some people said things/words with real venom and hatred, others said the same things/words but he knew they meant no harm.


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## Alex1975 (Feb 5, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			As odd as it may sound, one of me Bessie mates at the pit was a mixed race jamacian guy. He was gay. He got some real " pit banter" stick for being black and gay. But he gave out as much as he got.
However and this is my point, which is a point that he raised. It's not the words that are said, but how the words are said. He said some people said things/words with real venom and hatred, others said the same things/words but he knew they meant no harm.
		
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Ye.... but let's move forwards and not say them at all, then yall might even stop thinking them....


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## oxymoron (Feb 6, 2017)

I am in my 50's and was brought up in an era when homosexuality was " frowned " upon but i have gotten past any negative social conditioning (?) if thats the right way to look at it . I have grandkids and i have more of a problem  with the amount of gratuitous sex and violence on TV these days than with 2 gay men kissing , but as long as it is portrayed as a loving , mutual relationship i have absolutely no problem .
I hope this has come over as i mean it to i do not seek to insult any one.


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## Tashyboy (Feb 6, 2017)

Alex1975 said:



			Ye.... but let's move forwards and not say them at all, then yall might even stop thinking them....
		
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I think it was more a "pit thing" than anything else, 500 plus men working in harsh conditions, you had to be thick skinned at times with some of the things that were said. Not just your sexuality but with most things. It was an environment that would not and is not tolerated outside of the mining industry.


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## Maninblack4612 (Feb 6, 2017)

Alex1975 said:



			I would love to be a fly on the wall when you leave the room......
		
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Don't think I  have ever made personally any comment that could be construed as racist to a black or Asian person.  I was talking about other people's comments.


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## Maninblack4612 (Feb 6, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Times change......so should we.
I am slightly younger than OP and I remember laughing at the scene in Porridge that featured the black Scot joke.

I pretty sure I would not laugh at it now
		
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I think that sometimes offense is taken too easily. For example the Australian joke that you know when a plane on the runway is full of English people because when the engines stop the whining continues.  Should I be offended by this racist slur? Doon from Troon won't be,  he's Scottish &,  as everyone knows,  a Scot is just a Geordie with his brains bashed out.


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			I think it was more a "pit thing" than anything else, 500 plus men working in harsh conditions, you had to be thick skinned at times with some of the things that were said. Not just your sexuality but with most things. It was an environment that would not and is not tolerated outside of the mining industry.
		
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I think you can apply that to a lot of all male or all female environments. The manner of chatter would not be repeated outside of that environment. Saying that, times have changed and even in those environments what would have been acceptable 10-20-30 years ago would not be now. People have to accept that and move on. You can't change the past, the banter, the chatter etc but times are different now, even in those types of situations.


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