# Minimum Price Alcohol in Scotland



## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

Excellent News, amazingly the SWA tried to stop it using EU Laws.

3L bottle of white cider now costing Â£11.75.
Will we now see an exodus of Scots Jakeys to England 


https://stv.tv/news/scotland/1402246-minimum-pricing-for-alcohol/


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## Val (Nov 15, 2017)

This isn't excellent news at all, if anything it's bad news. Alcoholics will find there booze regardless and if they have to pay more something like food, gas, electricity etc will play second fiddle. Expect food banks to get busier.

They would be far better putting money into educating on the dangers of alcohol excess and the booze culture in the UK than fleecing alcoholics for more money.


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## ColchesterFC (Nov 15, 2017)

Well it will certainly be excellent news for shops in England close to the Scottish border selling alcohol. I wonder how long it will be before the first coach trip "booze cruise" from Scotland to England is arranged.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

ColchesterFC said:



			Well it will certainly be excellent news for shops in England close to the Scottish border selling alcohol. I wonder how long it will be before the first coach trip "booze cruise" from Scotland to England is arranged.
		
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Booze cruise to buy cheap white cider, Eyemouth to Berwick maybe

The alcoholics who get blootered on designer gin and fine wines will not have to pay a penny more.


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## NWJocko (Nov 15, 2017)

Val said:



			This isn't excellent news at all, if anything it's bad news. Alcoholics will find there booze regardless and if they have to pay more something like food, gas, electricity etc will play second fiddle. Expect food banks to get busier.

They would be far better putting money into educating on the dangers of alcohol excess and the booze culture in the UK than fleecing alcoholics for more money.
		
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Without knowing too much of the detail of it this has always been my concern when this topic comes up.  I hope I'm wrong but the people it is targetting will, I fear, sacrifice something else before the booze......

Out of interest if a bottle of 3 litre cider is Â£12 how much is a bottle of wine?  They'll probably just start drinking other things.....


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## Foxholer (Nov 15, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			...They'll probably just start drinking other things.....
		
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Buckfast Abbey ramping up production then?


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Without knowing too much of the detail of it this has always been my concern when this topic comes up.  I hope I'm wrong but the people it is targetting will, I fear, sacrifice something else before the booze......

Out of interest if a bottle of 3 litre cider is Â£12 how much is a bottle of wine?  They'll probably just start drinking other things.....
		
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Price of a bottle of good wine will not change.
Cheap wine and spirits will increase so Â£10 bottles of firewater vodka will be Â£13 and Â£3.99 wine will increase by about Â£1. [depending on alcohol strength of course]
Standard Â£12 'bargain' whisky will now be Â£14.
Strangely I don't think it will increase the price of Buckfast but it is the white cider that causes so much damage to our vulnerable youngsters.

Caffine content in Buckfast is the problem, 15% alcohol and 15% caffine results in wired drunks, not good.
The bad monks seem quite happy to get rich by ruining folks health

Packaging deals eg 3 for Â£12 on wine has been outlawed in Scotland for a few years now.


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## jim8flog (Nov 15, 2017)

Lowering the drink drive limit, minimum price for alcohol. Have all the Quakers* left Somerset and gone to live in Scotland?

*Please insert here what you prefer.


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## NWJocko (Nov 15, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Price of a bottle of good wine will not change.
Cheap wine and spirits will increase so Â£10 bottles of firewater vodka will be Â£13 and Â£3.99 wine will increase by about Â£1. [depending on alcohol strength of course]
Standard Â£12 'bargain' whisky will now be Â£14.
.
		
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Other than cider very little change then?  In which case I suspect the point that people will just find the extra couple of quid from somewhere else to carry on drinking to their current levels is valid......

In my own experience kids and cheap cider doesn't last very long as it's not nice!!  Loads used to drink Buckfast and 1/4 or 1/2 bottles of spirits.


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## patricks148 (Nov 15, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Price of a bottle of good wine will not change.
Cheap wine and spirits will increase so Â£10 bottles of firewater vodka will be Â£13 and Â£3.99 wine will increase by about Â£1. [depending on alcohol strength of course]
Standard Â£12 'bargain' whisky will now be Â£14.
Strangely I don't think it will increase the price of Buckfast but it is the white cider that causes so much damage to our vulnerable youngsters.

Caffine content in Buckfast is the problem, 15% alcohol and 15% caffine results in wired drunks, not good.
The bad monks seem quite happy to get rich by ruining folks health

Packaging deals eg 3 for Â£12 on wine has been outlawed in Scotland for a few years now.
		
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its not the monks getting rich, they still view it a tonic wine and hardly ever see it in shops in England to the extent you do in Scotland. I think its the Scottish Distributor that has made a fortune selling to to Numpties TBH


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

NWJocko said:



			Other than cider very little change then?  In which case I suspect the point that people will just find the extra couple of quid from somewhere else to carry on drinking to their current levels is valid......

In my own experience kids and cheap cider doesn't last very long as it's not nice!!  Loads used to drink Buckfast and 1/4 or 1/2 bottles of spirits.
		
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Buckfast is quite expensive now [about Â£8 a bottle] and it has been replaced by the Jakeys for cheaper versions that will now increase in price.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

jim8flog said:



			Lowering the drink drive limit, minimum price for alcohol. Have all the Quakers* left Somerset and gone to live in Scotland?

*Please insert here what you prefer.
		
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Don't worry, if recent history follows you will be copying Scotland in a couple of years. 
[you forgot smacking BTW]


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 15, 2017)

Alcoholics will always drink. It's an illness (and I've first hand experience) and sadly this will simply drive them to more extreme measures to get the money for their next drink. I understand the logic behind the decision and for the vast majority of normal people who enjoy a tipple there won't be a problem. Its the minority and the impact their behaviour is going to have that's a concern


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Alcoholics will always drink. It's an illness (and I've first hand experience) and sadly this will simply drive them to more extreme measures to get the money for their next drink. I understand the logic behind the decision and for the vast majority of normal people who enjoy a tipple there won't be a problem. Its the minority and the impact their behaviour is going to have that's a concern
		
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.....and many critics of the policy do not seem to understand that the alternative is to make alcohol much cheaper which of course will lead to more alcoholics.


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## williamalex1 (Nov 15, 2017)

Phew !!, at least my Chateau Lafite and Remy are safe :cheers:


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 15, 2017)

I think it's a good step forward. I agree with Doon, I think we will be copying the move south of the border within a few years.


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## ger147 (Nov 15, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Buckfast is quite expensive now [about Â£8 a bottle] and it has been replaced by the Jakeys for cheaper versions that will now increase in price.
		
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It's not been replaced where I live, more popular than ever.

There's a Spar near me that has one of those tall fridges that are normally full of milk but it's full of Buckfast instead. They can't keep it filled...


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## jim8flog (Nov 15, 2017)

I do envisage a return of the home brewer kits.

Near to where I lived in the 70s there was shop that sold nothing but home brewery related stuff. I reckon the most drunk I have ever been in my life was after drinking a whole bottle of one my mates concoctions in a very short space of time on top of a few pints. "It's only wine"


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## williamalex1 (Nov 15, 2017)

ger147 said:



			It's not been replaced where I live, more popular than ever.

There's a Spar near me that has one of those tall fridges that are normally full of milk but it's full of Buckfast instead. They can't keep it filled...
		
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Seemingly it now has to kept at the precise temperature that the modern Jakey connoisseurs expect , slightly chilled  for me  .:cheers: :rofl:
 Price increase wont make the slightest difference, I'm afraid they'll find the money somewhere somehow.


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## IanG (Nov 15, 2017)

Anyone know where the extra revenue this will generate goes ? Is it extra tax to the Government or extra profit for the retailer ??


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## SocketRocket (Nov 15, 2017)

It's typical BS politics, attempting to divert attention from what a ghastly job Jimmy is making of running the country.   

A couple of quid extra to get blotto on cheap cider.  What good is that going to do, its pathetic.


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## chrisd (Nov 15, 2017)

Are they planning to have a minimum price for cream cakes to help the obese??


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## williamalex1 (Nov 15, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			It's typical BS politics, attempting to divert attention from what a ghastly job Jimmy is making of running the country.   

A couple of quid extra to get blotto on cheap cider.  What good is that going to do, its pathetic.
		
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Not often I agree with you but you're spot on. :cheers:


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

IanG said:



			Anyone know where the extra revenue this will generate goes ? Is it extra tax to the Government or extra profit for the retailer ??
		
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I am not sure if there will be any extra revenue generated as the policy is aimed at reducing consumption.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 15, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Are they planning to have a minimum price for cream cakes to help the obese??
		
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Why not.

If people cannot control their excesses it makes sense for the health authorities to step in.
I was at the hospital yesterday when a well overweight young woman was absolutely fuming when the surgeon told her that he would not operate until she lost weight.


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## chrisd (Nov 15, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Why not.

If people cannot control their excesses it makes sense for the health authorities to step in.
I was at the hospital yesterday when a well overweight young woman was absolutely fuming when the surgeon told her that he would not operate until she lost weight.
		
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But should I pay more for my cream cake because of her lack of self control ?


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## Val (Nov 15, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I am not sure if there will be any extra revenue generated as the policy is aimed at reducing consumption.
		
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Consumption wonâ€™t change so someone will coin it in and suspect it will be the Scottish Government. So here we have a tax increase by the SNP disguised as doing the right thing.

Shameless


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## williamalex1 (Nov 15, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I am not sure if there will be any extra revenue generated as the policy is aimed at reducing consumption.
		
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Surprisingly naÃ¯ve Doon.


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## Hobbit (Nov 15, 2017)

Will the alcoholic reduce their intake? No of course they won't. They're addicted. And to fuel their addiction, just like a druggie, there's a greater chance of criminality. Will the almost alcoholic reduce their intake? That'll be a no then too. Will the person having a party/BBQ reduce what they buy for their shindig? No, not all but they'll just look for more bargains.

So who wins? The SNP have to fill the Â£15bn deficit somehow.


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## Slab (Nov 16, 2017)

Why not leave pricing alone (since folk will find a way anyway) and instead apply legislation to limit the strength of the alcohol content


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 16, 2017)

It won't stop the already alcoholic, I think we all know that. It may help to reduce those going down that path at a young age however as they will not find it quite so cheap to load up. Anyone see how many large bottles of cider the reporter from the BBC bought for not very much, I think it was Â£20. Scary amount.

 Let's see how this works. Surely it is better than doing nothing.


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## Val (Nov 16, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It won't stop the already alcoholic, I think we all know that. It may help to reduce those going down that path at a young age however as they will not find it quite so cheap to load up. Anyone see how many large bottles of cider the reporter from the BBC bought for not very much, I think it was Â£20. Scary amount.

 Let's see how this works. Surely it is better than doing nothing.
		
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I personally think there are many other ways to tackle alcoholism than this, this is a step but the wrong step IMO and I see no other result than driving those already poor into further poverty to fund their addiction. 

Will it stop future generations heading into alcoholism? Possibly, but probably not. I firmly believe the only way to tackle it is to try and change the UK drinking culture. Got to the likes of Italy where you rarely see drunks in the street or drunks standing at bars however you are likely to see Italians in cafes with a glass of wine socialising. In Germany where the beer is potent you see similar to Italy all be it with glasses of beer rather than wine but we arenâ€™t seeing the same alcohol issues there we tend to see in the U.K, why is that?

We have a drink culture here tends to be drink till you get drunk and its extremely unlikely to change any time in the near and distant future. A step to change that is a big step in the positive.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 16, 2017)

I agree that education is the answer, but that education must come from the parents/schools.
If the parents are alcoholics how do you break this cycle.
IMO peer pressure would work better, getting rid of the lad/lass culture, not sure how you make that work

I see the always 'SNP bad' Scottish newspapers have all given this a thumbs up. Perhaps they are aware that it is a popular move with Scots.
Except the Express [of course] who for some crazy spittle flecked reason seem to think this will affect exports.

Val you seem to equate Alcoholics to poverty.
As a former licence holder north and south of the border I can assure you that in many cases that is not so.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 16, 2017)

williamalex1 said:



			Surprisingly naÃ¯ve Doon.
		
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Totally disagree.

The smoking in public ban in Scotland [followed a couple of years later by England] had a big negative impact on revenue generated by the tobacco and drinks industry.
Saving lives and NHS money along the way.


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## HowlingGale (Nov 16, 2017)

Just to provide a bit of balance I read yesterday that the excess revenue would go to the retailer. The idea that it's a stealth tax should be taken out of the argument.


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## Val (Nov 16, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I agree that education is the answer, but that education must come from the parents/schools.
If the parents are alcoholics how do you break this cycle.
IMO peer pressure would work better, getting rid of the lad/lass culture, not sure how you make that work

I see the always 'SNP bad' Scottish newspapers have all given this a thumbs up. Perhaps they are aware that it is a popular move with Scots.
Except the Express [of course] who for some crazy spittle flecked reason seem to think this will affect exports.

Val you seem to equate Alcoholics to poverty.
As a former licence holder north and south of the border I can assure you that in many cases that is not so.
		
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Not at all doon, Iâ€™m merely pointing out the alcoholics who it will hit hardest.

Coming from north Lanarkshire I know many alcoholics who are from poor and not so poor backgrounds but thankfully I know more who are recovering rather than suffering.


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## Val (Nov 16, 2017)

HowlingGale said:



			Just to provide a bit of balance I read yesterday that the excess revenue would go to the retailer. The idea that it's a stealth tax should be taken out of the argument.
		
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Interesting. Do you have a link?


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## MegaSteve (Nov 16, 2017)

Sadly, I don't believe simply putting the prices up will be the cure for alcoholism..


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 16, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Sadly, I don't believe simply putting the prices up will be the cure for alcoholism..
		
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I don't think anyone has said that.

I do think however that the price of cigarettes is one of the drivers that has stopped many nicotine addicts from smoking.  
Hopefully it will have a similar effect on drinking.


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## HowlingGale (Nov 16, 2017)

Val said:



			Interesting. Do you have a link?
		
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41981909

Hopefully that works. It's buried in there somewhere.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 16, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I don't think anyone has said that.
		
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Well I'd say its what the headlines are implying...

No mentions of additional [proper] funding for support or education...


It costs a whole lot more of your hard earnt to kick the habit than it does to maintain it...


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 16, 2017)

The black market traders and importers will be having a field day.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 17, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			its not the monks getting rich, they still view it a tonic wine and hardly ever see it in shops in England to the extent you do in Scotland. I think its the Scottish Distributor that has made a fortune selling to to Numpties TBH
		
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The Monks [Company] have been asked many times to reduce the caffine [no reason for it being there] but they refuse. Not what I would call a Christian attitude, along with Monks driving Bentleys.
Without the caffine it would just be like any other fortified wind, still perfectly 'sellable' and reducing the disadvantage of 'wired drunks'.


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## patricks148 (Nov 17, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The Monks [Company] have been asked many times to reduce the caffine [no reason for it being there] but they refuse. Not what I would call a Christian attitude, along with Monks driving Bentleys.
Without the caffine it would just be like any other fortified wind, still perfectly 'sellable' and reducing the disadvantage of 'wired drunks'.
		
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trouble is its only drunks in Scotland that drink this. I was at Uni with a guy who was from close to the abbey and he was astounded that it was abused the way it is and could not believe any one would drink the stuff let along hardened drinkers.

i would also be surprised if any of the monks drove Bentleys


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 17, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			trouble is its only drunks in Scotland that drink this. I was at Uni with a guy who was from close to the abbey and he was astounded that it was abused the way it is and could not believe any one would drink the stuff let along hardened drinkers.

i would also be surprised if any of the monks drove Bentleys
		
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The Monk in charge of the business side does.
His factory is based in Andover, no link to the Abbey.
As you say Patricks the Scots agent does very well.

The serious Jakeys cannot afford Buckfast and drink much cheaper fortified wine without the caffine.
Their children drink white cider.

Whilst my missus was incarcerated in Darlington Hospital I visited the local 'Spar' shop for some snacks.
I was amazed to see shelves of 3L bottles of white cider in the shop. I remember thinking. 'wow who drinks this stuff'.
Looks like Wales will follow the minimum price route as well.


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## patricks148 (Nov 17, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The Monk in charge of the business side does.
His factory is based in Andover, no link to the Abbey.
As you say Patricks the Scots agent does very well.

The serious Jakeys cannot afford Buckfast and drink much cheaper fortified wine without the caffine.
Their children drink white cider.

Whilst my missus was incarcerated in Darlington Hospital I visited the local 'Spar' shop for some snacks.
I was amazed to see shelves of 3L bottles of white cider in the shop. I remember thinking. 'wow who drinks this stuff'.
Looks like Wales will follow the minimum price route as well.
		
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maybes all made now under licence from the Abbey and they pay them for the name etc, funds the Abbey and the order. i did visit there once and took a tour. the monks were still making it them i think, but that was early 90';s. 
Times have changed drinking wise, we i was a lad, we went to the pub at 6 or 7 on a friday and Sat, were hammered by 11 and home by midnight. these youngsters are drinking this crap at home then going out at midnight to bars open till 2 , then a club tlll 4 or 4 in the morning


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 17, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			maybes all made now under licence from the Abbey and they pay them for the name etc, funds the Abbey and the order. i did visit there once and took a tour. the monks were still making it them i think, but that was early 90';s. 
Times have changed drinking wise, we i was a lad, we went to the pub at 6 or 7 on a friday and Sat, were hammered by 11 and home by midnight. these youngsters are drinking this crap at home then going out at midnight to bars open till 2 , then a club tlll 4 or 4 in the morning
		
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Lucky you........weniweralad the pubs closed at 10pm.


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## williamalex1 (Nov 17, 2017)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Lucky you........weniweralad the pubs closed at 10pm. 

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Also closed on Sundays and during the from 2.30 till 5pm, so I've been told :cheers:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

...and so it is cleared to be passed into law in Scotland.  This means that a 3litre bottle of Frosty Jacks cider (7.5% proof) will no longer cost me Â£3.69 but will now cost me Â£11.  Well that's scuppered my fave and cheapest way of getting utterly plastered.  And that's a good thing.


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## patricks148 (May 1, 2018)

Booze Run to England anyone??

In all seriousness, i'm not sure it will work. the poorest in society with  a drink problem will still more than likely have the same problem, just now they will be even poorer.

Not seen any mention of the extra cash raised being put into alcohol rehab and education, or does it just mean producers make more money?


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## garyinderry (May 1, 2018)

Seems like a sure fire why of getting kids hooked on illegal drugs as they won't be able to afford alcohol. 

Who is going to pay 11.50 for frosty jacks. :rofl:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

patricks148 said:



			Booze Run to England anyone??

In all seriousness, i'm not sure it will work. the poorest in society with  a drink problem will still more than likely have the same problem, just now they will be even poorer.

Not seen any mention of the extra cash raised being put into alcohol rehab and education, or does it just mean producers make more money?
		
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Hopefully the former.

It is unlikely to make any difference to the alcoholic who will get drunk whatever - but if it reduces the general level of uncontrolled drunkeness especially among the young - then hopefully fewer will be regretting their drunkenness whilst sitting in a police cell or on a criminal record.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 1, 2018)

Cooking Whisky up from Â£11 to Â£13.......I shall just have to settle for the single malts now....no price change there.

The chemical cider industry will be gutted.
The daftest thing is that Buckfast is not affected by price as it is now more expensive to buy than a decent port.


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## patricks148 (May 1, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Cooking Whisky up from Â£11 to Â£13.......I shall just have to settle for the single malts now....no price change there.

The chemical cider industry will be gutted.
The daftest thing is that Buckfast is not affected by price as it is now more expensive to buy than a decent port.
		
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Thing is at least the cheap cider came in plastic bottles, the amount of broken bottles around the islands and River Ness is a nightmare for dog walkers, Kayliegh had a cut paw from broken glass last week, Â£300 vet bill later, because of neds smashing Buckie bottles all over the place.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2018)

patricks148 said:



			Thing is at least the cheap cider came in plastic bottles, the amount of broken bottles around the islands and River Ness is a nightmare for dog walkers, Kayliegh had a cut paw from broken glass last week, Â£300 vet bill later, because of neds smashing Buckie bottles all over the place.
		
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Have you not been watching the news recently? The move is away from plastic and back to glass. Is people smashing bottles a common thing? Not being funny, it does not happen near to me so I am wondering if it is a localised problem, a teenager problem etc?

From what I am reading, loopy cider for teenagers is going to go up massively in price. Other drinks will only go up marginally. I'm not sure I am seeing the problem.


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## User62651 (May 1, 2018)

Seems to me putting up cheap alcohol prices is admitting defeat in trying to sort the real source of why there is alcohol abuse in the first place - social deprivation and poverty linked to unemployment and housing. Until those issues are sorted country-wide then it's putting a plaster on a large wound - won't work but it's perhaps better than nothing amd might prevent some anti social problems, don't expect much to be honest.


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## patricks148 (May 1, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Have you not been watching the news recently? The move is away from plastic and back to glass. Is people smashing bottles a common thing? Not being funny, it does not happen near to me so I am wondering if it is a localised problem, a teenager problem etc?

From what I am reading, loopy cider for teenagers is going to go up massively in price. Other drinks will only go up marginally. I'm not sure I am seeing the problem.
		
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Can't see its would be a just a local thing do you reg walk though parks and river walks where you live?

not sure its teenagers TBH. There were two broken bottles on the canal swing bridge recently and pretty much every street i cut though walking two dogs twice a day has broken glass on, you notice it. Even on the local course there a discarded bottles. even bits of the Ness broken glass in. There is a bench in the islands, we call Junkie corner, as it always has some sort of ned or Junkie drinking on. There are steps down to the river, and my two dogs went down there the other week as the water level was low. All you could see in the river in front of this bench was broken bottles and bottles.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2018)

Yes, plenty of walks in all sorts of places. Litter is a problem in some areas, other dog walkers not picking up is a very definite problem but broken glass does not feature at all.


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## williamalex1 (May 1, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yes, plenty of walks in all sorts of places. Litter is a problem in some areas, other dog walkers not picking up is a very definite problem but broken glass does not feature at all.
		
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I remember when there was a small returnable deposit on glass bottles, kids use to chap doors asking for bottles to return, i can't remember much broken glass lying about.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

williamalex1 said:



			I remember when there was a small returnable deposit on glass bottles, kids use to chap doors asking for bottles to return, i can't remember much broken glass lying about.
		
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Well it seems just the perfect time for the return of the 3d for a bottle.  But that strikes of joined up thinking between environment policy and health & social care policy


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## IanM (May 1, 2018)

Reading this thread makes me realise that the Scots have some great words for getting "drunk!"


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

IanM said:



			Reading this thread makes me realise that the Scots have some great words for getting "drunk!"
		
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There is one I love that I have no idea how to spell - but phonetically it sounds something like _morocilus_ - as in _he was totally morocilus_


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## azazel (May 1, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Seems to me putting up cheap alcohol prices is admitting defeat in trying to sort the real source of why there is alcohol abuse in the first place - social deprivation and poverty linked to unemployment and housing. Until those issues are sorted country-wide then it's putting a plaster on a large wound - won't work but it's perhaps better than nothing amd might prevent some anti social problems, don't expect much to be honest.
		
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Changing attitudes can only be an extremely long-term project and will probably take at least a generation before you could expect a widespread change. Minimum pricing is, I think, an attempt to stem the tide in the meantime.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

azazel said:



			Changing attitudes can only be an extremely long-term project and will probably take at least a generation before you could expect a widespread change. Minimum pricing is, I think, an attempt to stem the tide in the meantime.
		
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If I am a 14 yr old who has a friend who is or looks old enough to buy me 3l of Frosty Jack for Â£3, then that's well within my pocket money budget - and I can get blootered every day on that one bottle.  Not all 14yr olds will know someone who knows someone shipping pallet loads of such as FJ across the border - and if they do they'll soon get fun oot as it won't be for sale in Scotland.

This can only be a good thing.


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## IanM (May 1, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			3L bottle of white cider now costing Â£11.75.[/url]
		
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what was it before?

Frosty Jack?   Never heard of that either.  No wonder you have such an issue.  Mind you, in South Wales they take drinking to a new level.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2018)

williamalex1 said:



			I remember when there was a small returnable deposit on glass bottles, kids use to chap doors asking for bottles to return, i can't remember much broken glass lying about.
		
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Gove has announced a consultation on this issue. His aim is to bring in a glass deposit scheme, based on the Norwegian model from memory. The old days are coming back.


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## Hobbit (May 1, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			Seems to me putting up cheap alcohol prices is admitting defeat in trying to sort the real source of why there is alcohol abuse in the first place - social deprivation and poverty linked to unemployment and housing. Until those issues are sorted country-wide then it's putting a plaster on a large wound - won't work but it's perhaps better than nothing amd might prevent some anti social problems, don't expect much to be honest.
		
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Not a bad point at all. I'm not convinced that it isn't a lazy money grab too. When you look at the stats for alcohol consumption per head throughout Europe you find that the UK is in a better position than most European countries... yet, is the UK really that full of drunks? Is it media hype that every town and city centre is mobbed with drunks? Or is it that the demographic for alcohol consumption in the UK is more amongst the youngsters, whereas drinking in France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc is more family driven with a shared bottle of wine on the table?

The WHO commissioned a report on alcohol consumption worldwide, the results of which suggest the UK doesn't have that big a problem.

#confused.com...... is it just an in-vogue thing to suggest the UK has serious problems? I genuinely don't know.


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## ger147 (May 1, 2018)

MD 20/20 now more expensive than Buckfast. Just what we need, the weans drinking more Buckfast...


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			Not a bad point at all. I'm not convinced that it isn't a lazy money grab too. When you look at the stats for alcohol consumption per head throughout Europe you find that the UK is in a better position than most European countries... yet, is the UK really that full of drunks? Is it media hype that every town and city centre is mobbed with drunks? Or is it that the demographic for alcohol consumption in the UK is more amongst the youngsters, whereas drinking in France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc is more family driven with a shared bottle of wine on the table?

The WHO commissioned a report on alcohol consumption worldwide, the results of which suggest the UK doesn't have that big a problem.

#confused.com...... is it just an in-vogue thing to suggest the UK has serious problems? I genuinely don't know.
		
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I think the Scottish move is to help with a specific drinking problem. The tax will not impact greatly on most drink, it is aimed at the bottom of the market, on get drunk quick alcohol. Nasty cider and lager that kids head to first off. Parts of Glasgow has some awful figures relating to alcohol problems and this is part of the plan to reduce this. It wont impact people going out, pricing is already way above 50p per unit in a bar / restaurant, it is for corner shop / Bargain booze type drinks.

I don't think anyone is saying this will stop the problem but it is part of the process.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

IanM said:



			what was it before?

Frosty Jack?   Never heard of that either.  No wonder you have such an issue.  Mind you, in South Wales they take drinking to a new level.
		
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About Â£3.50


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

ger147 said:



			MD 20/20 now more expensive than Buckfast. Just what we need, the weans drinking more Buckfast...
		
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The problem with Buckfast (as with all port and sherry and quality products favoured by the jakies of the West of Scotland back in the day such as Four Crown, Lannie and ElD) is that the alcohol level is just at the optimum level for rapid absorption through the stomach wall.  Whisky and other spirits if drunk alone do not get you drunk quick as the alcohol is absorbed more slowly - apparently that's why the traditional hauf an' a hauf get's you drunk quicker - the beer dilutes the whisky.

Mind you - they were all sophisticated drinks compared with the 'hairspray cocktail' mixing belair hairspray refill with milk


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## HughJars (May 1, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			Not a bad point at all. I'm not convinced that it isn't a *lazy money grab* too.
		
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Lord Tyrion said:



			I think the Scottish move is to help with a specific drinking problem. *The tax* will not impact greatly on most drink,
		
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It's NOT a tax. Scotgov get nothing out of this.


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## HughJars (May 1, 2018)

patricks148 said:



			Booze Run to England anyone??

In all seriousness, i'm not sure it will work. the poorest in society with  a drink problem will still more than likely have the same problem, just now they will be even poorer.

Not seen any mention of the extra cash raised being put into alcohol rehab and education,* or does it just mean producers make more money?*

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Yes, it's NOT a tax


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## HughJars (May 1, 2018)

iang said:



			anyone know where the extra revenue this will generate goes ? Is it extra tax to the government or extra profit for the retailer ??
		
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val said:



			consumption wonâ€™t change so someone will coin it in and suspect it will be the scottish government. So here we have a tax increase by the snp disguised as doing the right thing.

Shameless
		
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*it's. Not. A. Tax. *


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## HughJars (May 1, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			So who wins? The SNP have to fill the Â£15bn deficit somehow.
		
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SNP don't have a Â£15bn deficit, neither does ScotGov (the UK holding Scotland's fiscal leavers does), and they don't own groceries nor off-licenses.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 1, 2018)

HughJars said:



			It's NOT a tax. Scotgov get nothing out of this.
		
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I didn't know that, every day is a learning day. My point is the same though.

Is it the manufacturer who ups the price, the retailer or is there an agreement between the two to split the extra?


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## ColchesterFC (May 1, 2018)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I didn't know that, every day is a learning day. My point is the same though.

Is it the manufacturer who ups the price, the retailer or is there an agreement between the two to split the extra?
		
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On the radio earlier they said that the supermarkets would get the increased profits from the price going up. Not sure if that means that the suppliers will increase the prices that they sell at to the supermarkets.

EDIT - *interchange any of supermarket/Off license/corner shop etc in the above.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

Just hypothesising.

If the policy is aimed at driving very low cost, high and super-strength alcoholic drinks out of the market, then the retailer will lose those sales and so the very high margin on these drinks that results from minimum unit pricing will not be realised.  The retailer will lose the current probably quite small margin on these drinks as they disappear from sale, but may well make up for it on slightly higher margin on some more expensive higher strength drinks where the MUP might result in a small increase in price.


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## IanM (May 1, 2018)

Come on chaps  Â£500 in each and we can set up an office license on the Border!!   Monies via PayPal to blooteredthenoo@pished.com


Bit slow weren't we?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 1, 2018)

IanM said:



			Come on chaps  Â£500 in each and we can set up an office license on the Border!!   Monies via PayPal to blooteredthenoo@pished.com


Bit slow weren't we?
		
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 LOL

though the_ 'the noo'_ bit is a bit of a popular English misconception in how it is used...


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## Doon frae Troon (May 1, 2018)

Like charging for plastic bags and smoking in public places I bet it will not be long before England and Wales follow Scotland's lead.


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## Jacko_G (May 1, 2018)

I just foresee a bigger problem with all this. As has been pointed out, almost instantly by Val the alcoholics will still drink, they'll stop buying food, or certainly cut back on food. If those who are alcohol dependant have family, children etc then they're also going to suffer as mum/dad or both are going to have less money to spend on them.

I've seen some right poop hole houses in my time, I've seen children already suffering at the hands of alcoholic parents and this is certainly not the way forward at all for them. 

Short sighted measure. Shoplifting will increase, petty theft will increase. Etc etc. Vicious circle with certain levels of society destined to become even poorer.


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## chrisd (May 1, 2018)

Hobbit said:



			The WHO commissioned a report on alcohol consumption worldwide, the results of which suggest the UK doesn't have that big a problem.

.
		
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So we're trusting Roger Daltrey to come up with the numbers eh? Wasn't he a hell of a drinker in his day?


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## User62651 (May 1, 2018)

chrisd said:



			So we're trusting Roger Daltrey to come up with the numbers eh? Wasn't he a hell of a drinker in his day?
		
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There's been some good wisecracks on here today but that one wins hands down. Chuckle I did.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 1, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			I just foresee a bigger problem with all this. As has been pointed out, almost instantly by Val the alcoholics will still drink, they'll stop buying food, or certainly cut back on food. If those who are alcohol dependant have family, children etc then they're also going to suffer as mum/dad or both are going to have less money to spend on them.

I've seen some right poop hole houses in my time, I've seen children already suffering at the hands of alcoholic parents and this is certainly not the way forward at all for them. 

Short sighted measure. Shoplifting will increase, petty theft will increase. Etc etc. Vicious circle with certain levels of society destined to become even poorer.
		
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It's a good point but how do you break the circle. My wife works in endoscopy and regularly has patients coming in for appointments to investigate the damage drink is causing and despite needing to be nil by mouth many rock up first thing, drink in hand, clearly already drunk and then get rude and abusive when they can't have the procedure done. You need to break the cycles as you rightly describe them above and more money and resources are needed. Therein lies the biggest problem


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## MegaSteve (May 2, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Like charging for plastic bags and smoking in public places I bet it will not be long before England and Wales follow Scotland's lead. 

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Hopefully not...

Westminster is more than capable of producing its own lazy ill thought governance without taking a lead from others who have done so...


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## Doon frae Troon (May 2, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			I just foresee a bigger problem with all this. As has been pointed out, almost instantly by Val the alcoholics will still drink, they'll stop buying food, or certainly cut back on food. If those who are alcohol dependant have family, children etc then they're also going to suffer as mum/dad or both are going to have less money to spend on them.

I've seen some right poop hole houses in my time, I've seen children already suffering at the hands of alcoholic parents and this is certainly not the way forward at all for them. 

Short sighted measure. Shoplifting will increase, petty theft will increase. Etc etc. Vicious circle with certain levels of society destined to become even poorer.
		
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Yet the liver specialists in Glasgow Infirmary says that when alcohol prices go up his patient numbers go down.
As the first minister said this is one part of many strategies to try and stop the cycle of alcoholism.

BTW Westminster controls the tax duty of alcohol, it is not a devolved tax.


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## Maninblack4612 (May 2, 2018)

Just added to B & Q's summer garden range


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## Orikoru (May 2, 2018)

MegaSteve said:



			Hopefully not...

Westminster is more than capable of producing its own lazy ill thought governance without taking a lead from others who have done so...
		
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We got 'sugar tax' instead.


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## MegaSteve (May 2, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			We got 'sugar tax' instead. 

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Exactly...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 2, 2018)

maxfli65 said:



			There's been some good wisecracks on here today but that one wins hands down. Chuckle I did.

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Well after all - lest I missed it - but The Who by Numbers is a cracking album - mama's got a squeeze box anyone?


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## Doon frae Troon (May 8, 2018)

Just checked out my local Sainsbury's and what I thought would happen has.....pay a wee bit more for the cooking whisky and get some great deals on the decent stuff.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just checked out my local Sainsbury's and what I thought would happen has.....pay a wee bit more for the cooking whisky and get some great deals on the decent stuff.
		
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aye - but how much is a 3litre bottle of Frosty Jack's or equivalent?


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## Val (May 9, 2018)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Yet the liver specialists in Glasgow Infirmary says that when alcohol prices go up his patient numbers go down.
As the first minister said this is one part of many strategies to try and stop the cycle of alcoholism.

BTW Westminster controls the tax duty of alcohol, it is not a devolved tax.
		
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Is your comment about liver specialists just an opinion or something you read on wings? Quite frankly the comment is nothing more than utter nonsense, it's up there with some of your best dittys.

As for tax duty on alcohol, why mention it? Minimum pricing is not a tax.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 9, 2018)

Val said:



			Is your comment about liver specialists just an opinion or something you read on wings? Quite frankly the comment is nothing more than utter nonsense, it's up there with some of your best dittys.

As for tax duty on alcohol, why mention it? Minimum pricing is not a tax.
		
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It was a lengthy interview on BBC News Scotland.....which I trust less than Wings ..so make your choice.
I mentioned the tax because a poster [assume non Scottish] asked about it.


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