# New Fence - Neighbours



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 11, 2015)

And so with the rear garden fence between us and our semi-detached neighbours in disrepair and falling down we have decided to do something about it.  We're planning to replace existing fence with a top quality 6ft high close-boarded fence.  It'll cost us just under Â£2000!  

I've just told our neighbours of what we plan to do and that we don't expect them to contribute.  But they are an elderly retired couple and they really don't like us and are very suspicious of anything we do.  Within 2mins they were out in the back garden looking and discussing with their son and daughter-i-L.  I await their complaints and opposition.

So anyone here able to tell me if I have any rights in respect of what I do with our boundary fence.  The plans I have with the house deeds don't show any mark to indicate who is responsible for maintaining the boundary.  Facing the rear of our semi we are the left hand side of the fence - I believe I have read that in the event of nothing on the deeds we would therefore be responsible.  But can our neighbours object to what we wish to do?


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## TigerIsAmazing (Apr 11, 2015)

what side to the current posts sit? i.e do you see them or do they?

Whatever the answer, you can put up a 6' fence on your property with no recourse whatsoever.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 11, 2015)

Sounds very reasonable what you are proposing
As long as the boundary line is respected, you can go up to 2m high without planning permission.

If there is no mark on the plan , they could claim dual ownership of the boundary, in which case they might want some input, but would also be responsible for 1/2 the cost


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 11, 2015)

TigerIsAmazing said:



			what side to the current posts sit? i.e do you see them or do they?

Whatever the answer, you can put up a 6' fence on your property with no recourse whatsoever.
		
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Thanks TIA - the existing fence is panelling between posts so visible both sides.  It's 4'6" panel and 18" trellis on top.  Replacing with solid 6' (so they can't neb at us in our garden  ).

Being pedantic. can I put a 6' fence up on the boundary without recourse?


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## Jon321 (Apr 11, 2015)

As above. Put the new fence just your side of the old one. They can't say a word then.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 11, 2015)

Jon321 said:



			As above. Put the new fence just your side of the old one. They can't say a word then.
		
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Yes - I suppose we could - though that implies I couldn't take down the existing fence - which would be a problem when putting up a new one.  

And I'd  like to understand if there are legal responsibilities for maintaining a boundary fence and who is responsible.  As mentioned I've heard that this is sometimes marked on property deeds - and in the lack of that the LHS owner (when facing the rear of then property) is responsible.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 11, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Sounds very reasonable what you are proposing
As long as the boundary line is respected, you can go up to 2m high without planning permission.

If there is no mark on the plan , they could claim dual ownership of the boundary, in which case they might want some input, but would also be responsible for 1/2 the cost
		
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Thanks Phil - now that's a good trump card to have in my back pocket.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 11, 2015)

We had a similar issue a few years ago. The idea of the left side or the post side being your responsibility is a myth. Ideally responsibility is marked on the deeds but if not the boundary is a joint issue. Some great answers already, I love the idea of building the fence just inside your land.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 11, 2015)

The problem of boundary ownership has become more common over the years since "the Land Registry" started doing away with piles of old title deeds ( unregistered land) and moved to a computerised system (registered Land)

Previously you could ask whoever held your deeds , solicitor, mortgage company to look at the deeds to see who owns what.
However the computerised system will have a plan ,but not necessarily taken from the old deeds, so boundaries are not always marked.


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## Chrisb83 (Apr 11, 2015)

My brother had something similar both neighbours at the side offered a small contribution to the cost, the guy who backs onto him caused all sorts of fuss so he just put the fence up in front of the old one and left the old one up looking crap.


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## c1973 (Apr 11, 2015)

It doesn't matter what side your house is in relation to the fence, that's a red herring I'm afraid. 
It should be marked on the title deeds plan (a sort of sideways T), whichever garden has the 'T' is responsible for the fence. 
If there is no indicator then the law will deem that the garden containing the struts is responsible for the fence.

Hope that helps.


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## williamalex1 (Apr 11, 2015)

If this is the same neighbours that disliked your old HIFI system ??.   . Then can I have a special request please   " There may be trouble ahead ". Sound barriers perhaps ,  :rofl: 

Only joking mate , I had similar problems . I eventually installed new rails attached to the existing posts   [on my side] then fixed new fence panels to them. 
Best of luck.:thup:


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## SocketRocket (Apr 11, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			If this is the same neighbours that disliked your old HIFI system ??.   . Then can I have a special request please   " There may be trouble ahead ". Sound barriers perhaps ,  :rofl: 

Only joking mate , I had similar problems . I eventually installed new rails attached to the existing posts   [on my side] then fixed new fence panels to them. 
Best of luck.:thup:
		
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[video=youtube;vMnLoOnrwbg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMnLoOnrwbg[/video]


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## williamalex1 (Apr 11, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			[video=youtube;vMnLoOnrwbg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMnLoOnrwbg[/video]
		
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Stick to swinging old pal , don't take  of fence. lol


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 11, 2015)

Who do you have your deeds with. Get them to check first (not sure you can go direct to Land Registy but maybe) and then you'll know. Otherwise, put it up on your side (for the sake of a few feet) and then there's not argument


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## daymond (Apr 11, 2015)

I always understood the saying ' hammer home ' ie you stand on your own land to hammer the boards to the posts.
With slotted panels, walls and hedges life is more difficult.
Try asking other owners to your left and right which 'fence line' is theirs and you can work it out if they know.
Don't pull down the old fence before you know for certain or you might have nasty legal letters in your letter box.
As you want to do it and pay for it I would build the fence tight against the existing


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## Darren24 (Apr 11, 2015)

I am to putting up fence panels and like many have stated before it should be on the deeds. If there is nothing to say you have responsibility then you cannot take the old one down without the permission of your neighbours as it might be there responsibility. You can however build your side of the fence and put anything upto 6foot. Good luck


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## MadAdey (Apr 11, 2015)

Tell them what you want to do and see if they have a problem with it. If they are being obstructive then like has already been said, build a new fence your side of their existing old crappy one. Do not start nailing your fence to their one though, you run the risk of getting into problems with them if they really are that awkward. If that fence is their property and they report you for damaging it by nailing your fence posts to it they could make you pay to replace their original fence.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 12, 2015)

Well nothing heard yet - so far so good. But I am wondering if its worthwhile getting anything in writing giving us permission to take down existing fence and erect new one.  May sound me being paranoid and OTT but we are 'the worst neighbours' they have ever had and have opposed and stopped us doing an extension and complain about our music , our planting and shrubs, the kids making too much noise in garden when little etc etc


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 12, 2015)

Sounds like a very sensible move. Covers your back.


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## bobmac (Apr 12, 2015)

Whatever you do, keep talking to them. Tell them what you want to do and if they object, ask them what you could do that they wouldn't object to. After all, you have to live next door to them.
These things can get out of hand when the opposing sides stop talking and if you have to get them to sign something, then ask them in for a coffee and do it nicely.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 12, 2015)

Thanks bob and yes I've told them I'll keep them involved and said if they have and questions or concerns please tell me. We have the same fence we want to put up other side of house so I took Mr N round to shown him exactly what we are planning - and sensing he was worried about the height I told him that the fence I was showing him was 6ft - he looked unsure so I stood with my back to it and told him that I was just over 5ft10ins.  This seemed to reassure him.  Biggest problem is his Mrs. I get on fine with Mr N - but my wife and Mrs N can't stand each other.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Apr 12, 2015)

Coming soon to an episode of "Nightmare Neighbours Next Door ".......................:thup::rofl::whoo:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 12, 2015)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Coming soon to an episode of "Nightmare Neighbours Next Door ".......................:thup::rofl::whoo:
		
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We'll see.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

And so it came to pass. A knock on the door an hour ago and Mr N is standing there.  And he tells me (somewhat apologetically I think) that they want the existing fence left alone and untouched.  Sigh...

And so I wearily ask why.  Because it will block out light to our garden - comes then reply.  But - I plead - there used to be an 8ft high leylandii hedge where the fence now is (as there used to be before we took it down - it was our hedge).  
He knows.  But that's their decision.

And so I says - he does realise that we could put up a fence our side of the boundary if we want.  He says he knows.

I slump against my door to show my frustration and disbelief.  I will get back to him.  God knows what my Mrs will say.


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## TigerIsAmazing (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so it came to pass. A knock on the door an hour ago and Mr N is standing there.  And he tells me (somewhat apologetically I think) that they want the existing fence left alone and untouched.  Sigh...

And so I wearily ask why.  Because it will block out light to our garden - comes then reply.  But - I plead - there used to be an 8ft high leylandii hedge where the fence now is I (as there used to be before we took it down - it was our hedge).  he knows.  But that's that.

And so I says he does realise that we could put up a fence our side of the boundary if we want.  He says he knows.

I slump against my door to show my frustration and disbelief.  I will get back to him.  God knows what my Mrs will say.
		
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a fence with slats?

Seriously though maybe a compromise is a lower fence (so they get light to their garden and you still get some privacy) but the caveat of that compromise is they share half the costs. Win Win:thup:


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 13, 2015)

I get the impression the fence could be completely clear and allow all of the light possible and this neighbour would object. Light is todays objection, tomorrow it could be something else. The aim is to be awkward. Some people are just that way.

Have you thought about suggesting planting Leylandi again if the fence is not going to happen? Maybe that suggestion would bring them back to the fence as a compromise. It would just be a bluff but maybe one worth thinking about.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

TigerIsAmazing said:



			a fence with slats?

Seriously though maybe a compromise is a lower fence (so they get light to their garden and you still get some privacy) but the caveat of that compromise is they share half the costs. Win Win:thup:
		
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The existing fence is 4'6" panelled with 18" trellis on top.  My wive *hates* Mrs N looking through the trellis  - checking on us and what we are doing - seeing if we're planting a shrub that she doesn't like etc.  The main reason my wife will pay 100% of the new fence is that she wants that 6ft between us.


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## chrisd (Apr 13, 2015)

Just build the new fence 6 ft high and be done with it!

You've talked to them and, as they have no rights whatsoever, I know I'd just do the new fence and tell Mr Neighbour that as they weren't willing to have any result other than the one THEY wanted you've decided that there is no acceptable compromise open to you both and, therefore, you've gone with your choice. They cannot argue loss of light on a 6ft fence, that argument barely works even for an extension these days - I've just got permission to build an 8,000 square foot industrial unit that is higher than the 5,000 sq ft one that backs on to houses and the Council planner said that loss of light wouldn't be an acceptable objection form the neighbours..


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## Rooter (Apr 13, 2015)

Yeh sounds like you have tried you best to be civil and involve them. I would just crack on and put the new fence up. Why not find out when they are away for the day or week etc and build it then! More fun as you could get a step ladder (to see over your 6ft fence) to see their faces when they return!


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## Jabba (Apr 13, 2015)

You have been very reasonable, maybe it's time to be a touch more assertive.

If the fence is your responsibility then just crack on. If it isn't, or it's shared, inform them of your intention to build an 8 foot fence just inside your property line.

The threat of an 8 foot fence might just persuade them to  accede to your original idea.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

Jabba said:



			You have been very reasonable, maybe it's time to be a touch more assertive.

If the fence is your responsibility then just crack on. If it isn't, or it's shared, inform them of your intention to build an 8 foot fence just inside your property line.

The threat of an 8 foot fence might just persuade them to  accede to your original idea.
		
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Not allowed to build an 8ft fence - but up to 2m looks to be fine.  The existing fence is on the boundary and we shared the cost of erecting it about 17 yrs ago.  I told Mr N that I could build one on our land our side of the boundary.  Maybe I'll tell him that there is no way that a 6ft fence is going to materially change light into his garden and that we will put a fence up our side (they stopped us doing an extension in the past due to 'light' issues).  Or Maybe I just erect 6ft posts our side with an 18" panel at the top.


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## williamalex1 (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not allowed to build an 8ft fence - but up to 2m looks to be fine.  The existing fence is on the boundary and we shared the cost of erecting it about 17 yrs ago.  I told Mr N that I could build one on our land our side of the boundary.  Maybe I'll tell him that there is no way that a 6ft fence is going to materially change light into his garden and that we will put a fence up our side (they stopped us doing an extension in the past due to 'light' issues).  Or Maybe I just erect 6ft posts our side with an 18" panel at the top.
		
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Build and they will come- and chap your door again. A 2metre fence on built on your side is the best option with less hastle , if you can utilise the existing posts. thats what i had to do , I'll try and attatch picture.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

I'm thinking that that is what my wife will demand that we do.  Build a fence our side of the boundary.


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## jp5 (Apr 13, 2015)

I'd just build the fence and be done with it. You tried to be civil.


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## andycap (Apr 13, 2015)

do away with the trellis , put a gravel board in and replace panels , simple if they are concrete posts , but even if  they are timber post its still far easier than a new fence. I would leave the fence up and just put a new one up in front of it , they keep (their ? ) fence and you get your new fence ,


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## williamalex1 (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I'm thinking that that is what my wife will demand that we do.  Build a fence our side of the boundary.
		
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View attachment 14916
View attachment 14917
View attachment 14918
This was the end result , I just added a top and bottom rail to existing posts that were on my side , then screwed on the new 2x2 metre panels, leaving the original fence in tact. I didn't even acknowledge one neighbour for almost 10 years before the fence was put up. He eventually saw sense . Best of luck .


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



View attachment 14915
View attachment 14916
View attachment 14917
View attachment 14918
This was the end result , I just added a top and bottom rail to existing posts that were on my side , then screwed on the new 2x2 metre panels, leaving the original fence in tact. I didn't even acknowledge one neighbour for almost 10 years before the fence was put up. He eventually saw sense . Best of luck .
		
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Looks really good

You used the existing posts even although you don't own them?

Actually they have a very DIY 1960s lean-to on the back of their house that has the gable closest to us built on the external boundary wall between us (built before we bought the house).  So if we did go the route of using the existing posts and they complained we could cite their lean-to


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

andycap said:



			do away with the trellis , put a gravel board in and replace panels , simple if they are concrete posts , but even if  they are timber post its still far easier than a new fence. I would leave the fence up and just put a new one up in front of it , they keep (their ? ) fence and you get your new fence ,
		
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The trellis on top is what they want left.  They have told me they want the fence left as it is.  Now do I have any responsibility for that fence or for a share of any costs incurred if they decide to go fixing it up - it is truley knackered,


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## williamalex1 (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You used the existing posts even although you don't own them?
		
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Who said I didn't own them or couldn't attach anything to them .


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

My wife just in from work has just laughed and shaken her head.  She's right that this is probably Mrs N rather than Mr N.  They are turning down us paying for a brand  new fence because she thinks it'll take out some light.  Well she ain't seen the density of the shrubs my wife is going to be growing if we don't gegt our fence or do as Williamalex has done.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			Who said I didn't own them or couldn't attach anything to them .
		
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We don't own ours as we shared the cost of putting the fence up.


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## c1973 (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			My wife just in from work has just laughed and shaken her head.  She's right that this is probably Mrs N rather than Mr N.  They are turning down us paying for a brand  new fence because she thinks it'll take out some light.  Well she ain't seen the density of the shrubs my wife is going to be growing if we don't gegt our fence or do as Williamalex has done.
		
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Bear in mind your neighbour can lop of anything on their side of the boundary provided they return the cuttings.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Bear in mind your neighbour can lop of anything on their side of the boundary provided they return the cuttings.  

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Mrs N has already done that plenty of times over the years - killing some of our shrubs and climbers in the process.


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## williamalex1 (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			We don't own ours as we shared the cost of putting the fence up.
		
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So,  do they ask your permission if they want to attach a hanging basket or some other type of garden object to the fence.  I bet you they have things nailed on their side of the fence, have a wee peek and see.
In Scotland you can get a copy of your Title deeds/ land certificate free of charge from your mortgage provider .
This will define your communal boundaries and fences, and what you can and can't do .


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## TigerIsAmazing (Apr 13, 2015)

we put up a 6' fence all round and didnt even tell anyone- its what we wanted/needed and the current fence was a mess that fell down in any breeze- we paid it all ourselves as its what we wanted.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 13, 2015)

Stick the fence up on your own land and let them stew


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			So,  do they ask your permission if they want to attach a hanging basket or some other type of garden object to the fence.  I bet you they have things nailed on their side of the fence, have a wee peek and see.
In Scotland you can get a copy of your Title deeds/ land certificate free of charge from your mortgage provider .
This will define your communal boundaries and fences, and what you can and can't do .
		
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OK - true.  And as I mentioned - they have a structure built on a shared wall - though was done well before our time so we probably have no say as to whether or not it stays


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

TigerIsAmazing said:



			we put up a 6' fence all round and didnt even tell anyone- its what we wanted/needed and the current fence was a mess that fell down in any breeze- we paid it all ourselves as its what we wanted.
		
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We could clearly build a fence our side of the existing - maybe like Willianalex use existing posts - though many existing posts are knackered.  I'm going to sit on it for a few days and decide what I'll say to them.


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## c1973 (Apr 13, 2015)

Are you bigger than Mr N?  If so, just do what you want and kick him in the nutz if he comes to your door complaining. 












c1973 does not condone the use of violence. Violence has been mentioned for illustrative purposes only. Anyone using violence does so at their own risk.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Are you bigger than Mr N?  If so, just do what you want and kick him in the nutz if he comes to your door complaining. 












c1973 does not condone the use of violence. Violence has been mentioned for illustrative purposes only. Anyone using violence does so at their own risk. 


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Yes I am - Mr and Mrs N are in the late 80s - but their son and grandsons and son-in-law and *their* mates are hulking beasts.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Apr 13, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Are you bigger than Mr N?  If so, just do what you want and kick him in the nutz if he comes to your door complaining. 












c1973 does not condone the use of violence. Violence has been mentioned for illustrative purposes only. Anyone using violence does so at their own risk. 


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Sounds like it's Mrs N he should be scared of anyway!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Sounds like it's Mrs N he should be scared of anyway!
		
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When some years agio we took the architects plans we'd had drawn up for a really nice extension - sympathetic to our Arts and Crafts semi - she nearly had a fit - was shaking with fury...

Again it were the light that was their complaint - and as it was going to cost us a fortune in getting various experts involved so we canned the extension.


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## c1973 (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes I am - Mr and Mrs N are in the late 80s - but their son and grandsons and son-in-law and *their* mates are hulking beasts.
		
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Hmmmm.

Ach, ye didnae really want a new fence anyway, did ye?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 13, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Hmmmm.

Ach, ye didnae really want a new fence anyway, did ye? 

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Naw - Mrs has just said - sod em - we'll use half the money and have a nice week in Seville instead.


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## williamalex1 (Apr 13, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			We could clearly build a fence our side of the existing - maybe like Willianalex use existing posts - though many existing posts are knackered.  I'm going to sit on it for a few days and decide what I'll say to them.
		
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If the posts are old , they're most likely too  be short as well. Best concrete in new post of the correct height and spaces on your side to suit. 
Get it done before their kids decide to move back in. But it is nice to see you being  a little more Seville ( civil ):whoo:


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## MarkA (Apr 14, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			When some years agio we took the architects plans we'd had drawn up for a really nice extension - sympathetic to our Arts and Crafts semi - she nearly had a fit - was shaking with fury...

Again it were the light that was their complaint - and as it was going to cost us a fortune in getting various experts involved so we canned the extension.
		
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 Theres no such thing as a right to light - no planner will turn down an application for that reason.
Older people just don't like change and you'll never reach any form of agreement with them - you are better off just getting on with a new fence your side of the boundary, job done they haven't got a leg to stand on, they keep their fence you get your new fence


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## chrisd (Apr 14, 2015)

MarkA said:



			Theres no such thing as a right to light - no planner will turn down an application for that reason.
Older people just don't like change and you'll never reach any form of agreement with them - you are better off just getting on with a new fence your side of the boundary, job done they haven't got a leg to stand on, they keep their fence you get your new fence
		
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Spot on - and a 6 FT fence doesn't require planning anyway under normal circumstances, I wouldn't have bothered to talk to them in the first place given your past history!


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2015)

Build on your side but before you erect the panels get the local graffiti gang to do a paint job on their side of your fence.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Build on your side but before you erect the panels get the local graffiti gang to do a paint job on their side of your fence.
		
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Better still.........paint each panel as a Saltire.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Better still.........paint each panel as a Saltire.
		
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Except they wouldn't see the painted flags as they'd be painted on our side of the fence.


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## G.U.R (Apr 14, 2015)

You could always move? :mmm:


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 14, 2015)

When you sell a house now you have to fill in a form advising if you have had any disputes with your neighbours. You can't just pull a flanker on the new buyers.


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## road2ruin (Apr 14, 2015)

Our neighbour is an elderly lady who constantly complained about the state of our fence from the day that we moved in. She was right, it did need doing and so, 6 months after we moved in we got the whole fence removed and a solid 6ft job put in instead. 

She lost the plot, claimed that her plants attached to the fence had been destroyed, dust was in her house due to the concrete posts and one of her cats almost fell in a hole. I had her daughter on the phone telling me that she was hope I was satisfied and that I'd made her mum feel like a prisoner in her own home due to the 'new' look of the fence and the height. 

I agreed to meet with the daughter and took along my measuring take and proved that it was exactly the same height as the fence her mum had put in a couple of years back. Got lots of huffing and puffing etc etc but couldn't be bothered with them. It's a shame as she was a nice lady for a short period of time. I also ensured I had the 'nice' side of the fence.

The hypocrisy of the old bat came to light a few months later when I was talking to some of the other neighbours. Our house is in a small row of terrace homes that used of have 'gossip fences', apparently these are high at the house however go lower down the garden so people could talk over them. This old lady moved in and was the first to stick a 6ft fence up and people have just followed suit.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 14, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Except they wouldn't see the painted flags as they'd be painted on our side of the fence.
		
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Naw..........I was meaning the other side of the panel facing them.

Won't work if the old fence is staying up.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2015)

road2ruin said:



			Our neighbour is an elderly lady who constantly complained about the state of our fence from the day that we moved in. She was right, it did need doing and so, 6 months after we moved in we got the whole fence removed and a solid 6ft job put in instead. 

She lost the plot, claimed that her plants attached to the fence had been destroyed, dust was in her house due to the concrete posts and one of her cats almost fell in a hole. I had her daughter on the phone telling me that she was hope I was satisfied and that I'd made her mum feel like a prisoner in her own home due to the 'new' look of the fence and the height. 

I agreed to meet with the daughter and took along my measuring take and proved that it was exactly the same height as the fence her mum had put in a couple of years back. Got lots of huffing and puffing etc etc but couldn't be bothered with them. It's a shame as she was a nice lady for a short period of time. I also ensured I had the 'nice' side of the fence.

The hypocrisy of the old bat came to light a few months later when I was talking to some of the other neighbours. Our house is in a small row of terrace homes that used of have 'gossip fences', apparently these are high at the house however go lower down the garden so people could talk over them. This old lady moved in and was the first to stick a 6ft fence up and people have just followed suit.
		
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She sounds just like our Mrs N.  First few years - nae bather at a' - chitty chatty; home made Christmas wreaths for the front door; Christmas cards etc.  It has gone downhill - a lot - since then.  And we've had Mr N coming to us and telling us we were responsible for Mrs N being very poorly due to stress caused my us - and when we moved in there wa an 8ft leylandii the length of the garden between us - and they moaned when we took it down   They also wonder why we are so obsessed with privacy...."yer a nosey miserable auld bat - that's why..."  But I like Mr N


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## richart (Apr 14, 2015)

We were lucky that we heard what our new neighbours were like from some friends that lived next door to them at their previous house. Saved wasting time getting to know them, and we could just take an instant dislike to them.:thup: Property developers with friends on the council, that made out they were just your ordinary family. True to form they have doubled the size of the property, by building in the roof for which they didn't need planning permission.


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## sawtooth (Apr 14, 2015)

I skimmed the whole thread so apologies if I missed any details but I would be cautious about erecting a new fence inside your boundary. It may cause issues and confusion over land ownership further down the road even after you or the neighbour from hell moves on. 

Surely if you are building up the fence to the same height as before or to a sensible, legal height then the neighbour must see sense in that. Appease them by having the presentation face the way that they want it, if you think that will help.

As been said before the "T" symbol on your deeds should be there to show fence ownership. If its not there then the side where the fence struts are showing is normally the side that is responsible for/owns the fence. Its a common courtesy to erect a fence so that the best side is facing your neighbour but I dont think you are obliged to.

Some people are funny about owning a fence and having the obigation to maintain it and some would happily say that you own it so they dont need to worry about it. Are any of you precious about who owns it?


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## bladeplayer (Apr 14, 2015)

Sure is great living out in the country


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2015)

sawtooth said:



			I skimmed the whole thread so apologies if I missed any details but I would be cautious about erecting a new fence inside your boundary. It may cause issues and confusion over land ownership further down the road even after you or the neighbour from hell moves on. 

Surely if you are building up the fence to the same height as before or to a sensible, legal height then the neighbour must see sense in that. Appease them by having the presentation face the way that they want it, if you think that will help.

As been said before the "T" symbol on your deeds should be there to show fence ownership. If its not there then the side where the fence struts are showing is normally the side that is responsible for/owns the fence. Its a common courtesy to erect a fence so that the best side is facing your neighbour but I dont think you are obliged to.

Some people are funny about owning a fence and having the obigation to maintain it and some would happily say that you own it so they dont need to worry about it. Are any of you precious about who owns it?
		
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Thanks sawtooth.  I'll check our deeds again for the T.  The panels are between the posts so that doesn't help - and we were planning to have the presentation side their side.  The new fence would be the same height as the existing fence the difference being that the top 24" would be solid rather than trellis.  And I too am wary about building insoide the boundary line.

I think I'll just say that they can get on with fixing the fence as they want - but don't come to us for a contribution.


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## moogie (Apr 14, 2015)

Wow
I honestly didn't know that these type of people really existed
Find the whole thing astounding
Makes me feel blessed I've got,  ( always had ) , great neighbours.
Granted,  I've only ever owned 2 houses,  but have had 5 sets of neighbours,  without a single quarrel

Maybe we're just more friendly oop North


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## Rooter (Apr 14, 2015)

moogie said:



			Wow
I honestly didn't know that these type of people really existed
Find the whole thing astounding
Makes me feel blessed I've got,  ( always had ) , great neighbours.
Granted,  I've only ever owned 2 houses,  but have had 5 sets of neighbours,  without a single quarrel

Maybe we're just more friendly oop North 

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Nah some of us darn sarf are OK. My next door neighbour is my best mate from school and playing partner!


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 14, 2015)

MarkA said:



			Theres no such thing as a right to light - no planner will turn down an application for that reason.
Older people just don't like change and you'll never reach any form of agreement with them - you are better off just getting on with a new fence your side of the boundary, job done they haven't got a leg to stand on, they keep their fence you get your new fence
		
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_light

Whether it applies in this case seems unlikely, but there is most definitely a right to light.


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## Khamelion (Apr 14, 2015)

I've got similar issues to the OP, in that with my house being at the end of a cul-de-sac and surround on three sides by 5 different back gardens, all of which have different fences, so I know they are not mine. What I've started to do is build a small wall only two course on my land but right on the boundary line, I've then put in new posts and 6 foot panels, the neighbours can't complain as I built on my land and there can be no issue with boundaries as my new fence is immediately adjacent to the existing. 

I'm not losing any land and the deeds remain accurate.

As others have written, build the new fence on your land next to the existing fence and the neighbours cannot complain.

In regard to the light aspect, what direction does you garden face?


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## Khamelion (Apr 14, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_light

Whether it applies in this case seems unlikely, but there is most definitely a right to light.
		
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Got to disagree there Blue, neighbours from over the street complained about a large extension that was going up at the bottom of their back garden. The extension owner moved the back of his house out several feet and it was double height. The neighbours back garden faced south and had plenty of sunlight, but once the extension was up half their garden was in shade.

They complained and cited a right to light, but were told there is no such thing and nothing they could do about the extension going up.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			I've got similar issues to the OP, in that with my house being at the end of a cul-de-sac and surround on three sides by 5 different back gardens, all of which have different fences, so I know they are not mine. What I've started to do is build a small wall only two course on my land but right on the boundary line, I've then put in new posts and 6 foot panels, the neighbours can't complain as I built on my land and there can be no issue with boundaries as my new fence is immediately adjacent to the existing. 

I'm not losing any land and the deeds remain accurate.

As others have written, build the new fence on your land next to the existing fence and the neighbours cannot complain.

In regard to the light aspect, what direction does you garden face?
		
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Back of the house faces North-East and so back garden aligned SW-NE.  Facing down the gardens we are the RHS of the semi,.  BTW their complaint about loss of light was into their back garden - not their house


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 14, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			Got to disagree there Blue, neighbours from over the street complained about a large extension that was going up at the bottom of their back garden. The extension owner moved the back of his house out several feet and it was double height. The neighbours back garden faced south and had plenty of sunlight, *but once the extension was up half their garden was in shade.*

They complained and cited a right to light, but were told there is no such thing and nothing they could do about the extension going up.
		
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I'll stick with the fact that there is a right to light.  From the article; _In effect, the owner of *a building with windows that have received natural daylight for 20 years or more* is entitled to forbid any construction or other obstruction that would deprive him or her of that illumination. Neighbours cannot build anything that would block the light without permission._

So it only affects the building, not the garden, hence the suggestion that it probably wasn't likely to apply to the fence.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 14, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			I'll stick with the fact that there is a right to light.  From the article; _In effect, the owner of *a building with windows that have received natural daylight for 20 years or more* is entitled to forbid any construction or other obstruction that would deprive him or her of that illumination. Neighbours cannot build anything that would block the light without permission._

So it only affects the building, not the garden, hence the suggestion that it probably wasn't likely to apply to the fence.
		
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This is what scuppered us and out extension plans - even although the light loss would have been minimal - we may even had made things brighter given the arrangement of rooflights and windows we had planned.  Anyway that was then...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2015)

Anyway - I spoke with our fencer - a guy with experience of erecting 1000s of fences over many years.  And he tells me 100% certain that as we are the LHS of the boundary the fence is ours.  I said I'd been told it was a myth - he said no - 100% our fence - and asked me how we got on withj the neighbours and what would we feel about upsetting them.  This morning my Mrs said she didn't care if Mrs N had a heart attack due to any stress caused by this.  I *think * this was said in jest.


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## Khamelion (Apr 15, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Back of the house faces North-East and so back garden aligned SW-NE.  Facing down the gardens we are the RHS of the semi,.  BTW their complaint about loss of light was into their back garden - not their house
		
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Can't see what their argument is about losing light, they would only get direct sun light first thing in the morning, the sun would then move around and your houses would create shadow into the backs gardens, then once the sun has cleared the houses it would be on their side and their garden would be in direct sunlight, barring obstruction from other houses on their side.

This is what I'm doing around the boundary of my house


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			Can't see what their argument is about losing light, they would only get direct sun light first thing in the morning, the sun would then move around and your houses would create shadow into the backs gardens, then once the sun has cleared the houses it would be on their side and their garden would be in direct sunlight, barring obstruction from other houses on their side.

This is what I'm doing around the boundary of my house

View attachment 14973

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Looks good what you are doing - and yes - light wise you've got it.  One thing they'll be thinking of is the fact that our gardens are typical old town centre gardens - long and narrow.  But yes - as I look out my back window this very moment into their back garden bottom half of their garden in full sunlight - top half is in shade of their own house.

TBH - I think the light-loss thing is an excuse Mrs N has got fixed in her mind as a good reason for saying NO - because she wants to say NO as she knows my wife wants a solid 6ft fence - and she'll do whatever to pi$$ my wife off.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 15, 2015)

It sounds like their back garden is north facing, as their own house is shading a chunk of the back garden, so the sun will never shine over the disputed fence, therefore the lack of light arguement is a total red herring.

I rest my case M'lud

that will be Â£10000 please


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 15, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			It sounds like their back garden is north facing, as their own house is shading a chunk of the back garden, so the sun will never shine over the disputed fence, therefore the lack of light arguement is a total red herring.

I rest my case M'lud

that will be Â£10000 please 

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If Google Maps is by default aligned north then our gardens are pretty much precisely aligned ENE


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 15, 2015)

Close enough

err thats now Â£11000


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 20, 2015)

And so - we were away for a long weekend and on our return yesterday evening - lo and behold - some of the disrepair of the fence has been repaired.  Well...being pragmatic - if this means that our neighbours have been 'frightened' into taking on responsibility for maintenance of the fence - then maybe I'll leave it at that.  Got the fencer coming around this evening any any case to discuss options.

Isn't life great.


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## bobmac (Apr 20, 2015)

Take up naked sunbathing.
That will get MrsN putting up an 8ft fence


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## North Mimms (Apr 20, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Take up naked sunbathing.
That will get MrsN putting up an 8ft fence 

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:rofl:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 20, 2015)

North Mimms said:



			:rofl:
		
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I'll mention that to my OH


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## Alex1975 (Apr 20, 2015)

So what is the latest? I cant believe I am looking forward to seeing your fence up!


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## North Mimms (Apr 20, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			So what is the latest? I cant believe I am looking forward to seeing your fence up!
		
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You need to get out more!


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## Alex1975 (Apr 20, 2015)

North Mimms said:



			You need to get out more!
		
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Clearly! But come on, put that big 8 footer up and let the war begin!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 20, 2015)

The latest is that - as Mr and MrsN have sorted some basic problems with the fence whilst we were away for the weekend I shall wait to hear what they now say. Some of the posts and base boards are rotten.  If they now wish to taken on responsibility for the fence they can replace the wooden posts with new ones.  But they will have to accept that my Mrs will grow stuff across the trellis to block out their view into our garden.  They can pay for it all and I shall put my Â£2000 back in my pocket until of if we decide to put something up our side of the boundary.  And it wouldn't be 8ft as that would be shooting myself in the foot.


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## Alex1975 (Apr 20, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The latest is that - as Mr and MrsN have sorted some basic problems with the fence whilst we were away for the weekend I shall wait to hear what they now say. Some of the posts and base boards are rotten.  If they now wish to taken on responsibility for the fence they can replace the wooden posts with new ones.  But they will have to accept that my Mrs will grow stuff across the trellis to block out their view into our garden.  They can pay for it all and I shall put my Â£2000 back in my pocket until of if we decide to put something up our side of the boundary.  And it wouldn't be 8ft as that would be shooting myself in the foot.
		
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I thought it was Mrs Swingslike... Â£2k.... get it out of your pocket!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 20, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I thought it was Mrs Swingslike... Â£2k.... get it out of your pocket! 

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She's already spent half of it - 5 nights in Seville - I'm allowed along as well - to carry her bags.


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## SVB (Apr 20, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			She's already spent half of it - 5 nights in Seville - I'm allowed along as well - to carry her bags.
		
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Have you been to Seville, other half of cash is spending money for all those lovely restaurants and shops!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 20, 2015)

SVB said:



			Have you been to Seville, other half of cash is spending money for all those lovely restaurants and shops!
		
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No shopping will be allowed


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## williamalex1 (Apr 21, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			No shopping will be allowed
		
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 A Victor Meldrew quote seem about right.


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## bobmac (Apr 21, 2015)

You could get a cheap fence


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 21, 2015)

bobmac said:



			You could get a cheap fence

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Even BAs 'generous' generous baggage allowance might not cover my fence.  Fencer last night just told me to fix 2ft solid panels our side.  Think I'll do that - at least for the half of the fence closest to the house.


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