# Should I get PGA qualified?



## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

Ok..... *firstly* someone has very generously offered to pay for me to be PGA qualified (depending on just how much that costs) I'd tell you who but then I'd have to kill you (or them).


So what are my options?

Firstly, as far as I'm aware there is only one route, go to your local course and see if they want to take you on as an assistant. A) they need to have a vacancy B) they probably have to like you (and you them) C) it would mean spending 3yrs learning stuff that I don't want to know such as selling mars bars, fixing clubs and the business side of running a pro shop, something that really doesn't interest me.

*If* there was a SECOND route whereby you could shortcut all of that and just do a teaching course what are you supposed to do once you've become qualified? I couldn't just turn up at a course and start teaching the members as the resident pro does that himself to pay his mortgage, I guess I could teach people from the web but who is going to want to *PAY* more than a few quid here and there? I can't see many (if any) people wanting to pay for an entire day and I can't see many people driving 100 mile round trips or more just for 1/2hr on the range and a couple of pointers, and there probably aren't that many forumers who are within 50 miles of me anyway. So apart from the few naysayers we have here on the forum I can't seem to justify the point of stopping what I'm currently enjoying doing which is a bit of fun every now and then. No pressure, no money, just a couple of guys hitting balls on the range for a few (read as 5-8) hours talking about swing stuff and hitting balls.



Opinions please...


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## Hobbit (Sep 14, 2013)

Google World Golf Teachers federation of Great Britain and Ireland. No need to do the PGA, 3yr thing. Then find a driving range that doesn't have a pro, or ask a pro if you could use their facilities for a cut of the fee.


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## USER1999 (Sep 14, 2013)

Level one coaching is around Â£290, which enables you to assist a PGA qualified coach in giving group lessons.

Are there not foreign coaching courses that are not affiliated to the PGA which enable people to coach? 

I think if you took money, you'd still have to give up your amateur status though.


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## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

Wouldn't that be seen like having a provisional driving license instead of a full one? and I'd STILL get stick for not being PGA?

We had someone who was WGT qualified here a while ago and he practically got slaughtered off the forum.


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## full_throttle (Sep 14, 2013)

According to http://www.pga.info/pga-professional/how-to-become-a-pga-professional.aspx you could study for 3 years at Birmingham University.

If you fancy driving up to me I'll pay your fuel and treat you to dinner.


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## stevek1969 (Sep 14, 2013)

Surely your handicap would have to be a certain level before they would entertain you ,is the PGA not 4 or below?


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## chrisd (Sep 14, 2013)

To be honest James I'd stick at what you're currently doing. IMO pros only take young lads who earn next to nothing but have a dream of playing on tour. They expect them to teach the style that the pro does and most of the time it's sorting jumpers and selling mars bars. 

Ok, your not going to earn by what you're doing but satisfaction is worth something I would think. You are knowledgeable but non conformist, a really genuine, likeable guy but a nightmare to work with I would guess. No pro is going to give you what amounts to an apprentiship I would think, and any other way, would not be seen as qualified.

Just help people and enjoy it I reckon


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## virtuocity (Sep 14, 2013)

If it's just for 'credibility' then no.  That would mean you're doing it for the wrong reason- to please / placate / silence others who reckon your methods are wrong.

Would you change your mindset if someone handed you a PGA certification?  No.

If you want to do it for yourself, for your family then BATTER ON SIR!!!


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## fundy (Sep 14, 2013)

what would you gain by becoming PGA qualified? What would you do once you became qualified?

I think if you answer those 2 questions it will answer whether its worthwhile doing so. As a hunch I expect the answer is no but would love to know your answers


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## virtuocity (Sep 14, 2013)

Remember that range idea you talked about- that would suit you better.  

Get some figures together lad.


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## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

stevek1969 said:



			Surely your handicap would have to be a certain level before they would entertain you ,is the PGA not 4 or below?
		
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Having played off lower than that I don't think that would be too much hardship if I put my mind to it. I hit it OK now and I rarely practice. Short game is the key to knocking off a couple of shots.




fundy said:



			what would you gain by becoming PGA qualified? What would you do once you became qualified?
		
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They are the questions I'm asking you 

I can't see the gain, I guess I could throw my weight around the forum keep reminding people that I'm PGA qualified.... and then sleep in a tent everywhere I go as I don't make much money. I couldn't see me teaching anyone more than 20/30 miles from me, especially if they're expected to pay. I can't see me getting a place at a course where (for example) I could teach kids (or adults) for free at my leisure, I'm just trying to get my head round this - didn't expect someone to generously front up the money


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## Hobbit (Sep 14, 2013)

The PGA Level One Murph quotes also insures you to coach - think someone else mentioned the need for insurance...


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## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			The PGA Level One Murph quotes also insures you to coach - think someone else mentioned the need for insurance...
		
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I think you need that if you are charging for a service. When you stand next to your mate at the range and he's helping fix your over swing by watching your backswing and exchanging thoughts I doubt he's insured.


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## stevek1969 (Sep 14, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Having played off lower than that I don't think that would be too much hardship if I put my mind to it. I hit it OK now and I rarely practice. Short game is the key to knocking off a couple of shots.


Maybe so mate but your not so that's my point doesn't matter what you were in the past, I'm the same with football I know more about coaching that the coaches at my kids team but I don't give them advise as they have there badges and I'm just a frustrated parent living trying to live my dream thru my kid.
		
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## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

stevek1969 said:



			Maybe so mate but your not so that's my point doesn't matter what you were in the past
		
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I completely agree and it's something I will obviously have to consider (resolve) if I wanted to actually bother with getting an official qualification. It's ironic that once you're qualified you can play as crap as you like because now you're qualified and you're a coach not a player. You never have to hit a ball in anger ever again. Butch Harmon is off about 13 h/cap I don't think he outdrives Phil Mickelson just to 'show him how to do it'


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## lyden (Sep 14, 2013)

Lesson business for all pros seem to dwindle in the winter so that hardship has to be factored in. If its what you want to do with your life I say go for it......your a long time in the dirt.


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## duncan mackie (Sep 14, 2013)

virtuocity said:



			Would you change your mindset if someone handed you a PGA certification?  No.
		
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I suspect James's asking the question whether anyone else would change their mindset as much as the question you pose. (to piggyback your post)

The obvious answer is yes; some people would - but probably not the ones that are currently relevant  

Most people will 'teach' on a range, and at one extreme it will be someone who can't shoulldn't and definitiely isn't competent to advise the other individual in any way whatsoever (see posts on this forum for examples) - at the other it will be a real gem, and the ultimate value will be in whether the recipient does (or can do) anything about it.

Personally I have a 'mission' to get senior golfers to invest a small proportion of their course time to areas of obvious improvement ie a little could go a long way stuff, and as we have an open range by the first tee there is a significant amount of discussion. Sometimes this leads to a little 1:1 time, but in my case the objective is always for the individual to recognise that they can, and probably would, benefit from proper professional advice, and we have an absolutely excellent teaching staff of 4 professionals to deliver it.

So, quoting your first line "If it's just for 'credibility' then no. That would mean you're doing it for the wrong reason" - I think you nail it :thup:


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## SaintHacker (Sep 14, 2013)

JustOne said:



			We had someone who was WGT qualified here a while ago and he practically got slaughtered off the forum.
		
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In fairness that was more to do with the fact he claimed he could teach a complete beginner to be a scratch player inside 6 weeks using only a 7 iron, or something along those lines...


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## Vice (Sep 14, 2013)

Where about are you exactly anyway?



JustOne said:



			I can't see many people driving 100 mile round trips or more just for 1/2hr on the range and a couple of pointers, and there probably aren't that many forumers who are within 50 miles of me anyway.
		
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## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

Gatwick Airport.


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## Vice (Sep 14, 2013)

Not too far for some 



JustOne said:



			Gatwick Airport.
		
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I think what you are doing for members is great, there will always be naysayers and the best thing you can do is just learn to ignore them.


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## stevek1969 (Sep 14, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I completely agree and it's something I will obviously have to consider (resolve) if I wanted to actually bother with getting an official qualification. It's ironic that once you're qualified you can play as crap as you like because now you're qualified and you're a coach not a player. You never have to hit a ball in anger ever again. Butch Harmon is off about 13 h/cap I don't think he outdrives Phil Mickelson just to 'show him how to do it' 

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I no what you mean as there coaches are on the round side and you wonder how they got there badges sometimes I think out of a lucky bag.

I have forgotten more about coaching than they no together but I don't give my input as it causes a bit of aggro


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 14, 2013)

Having enjoyed the benefit of your wisdom on a couple of occasions I think you do have the ability to teach people of all skill lessons and your personality (no really) is a big asset. However what is the pay off? I can't see what you have to gain to be honest but I am sure there is something behind the OP and the question. Someone has mentioned a range idea and I can see how being qualified would let you teach "officially" if you are going to buy/own/run one. Aside from that I can't see any pay back for the time, effort and money it will cost


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## Andy808 (Sep 14, 2013)

If your happy with what your doing and you can ignore the individuals who think you have to be qualified to teach then no don't do it.
If you want to take it to the next level and have it as your career then go for it. 
As far as I can tell your happy helping who you can, when you can and it gives you a lot of satisfaction there is no reason to get qualified.
I've had lessons with a couple of pros and a few sessions with a mate who used to be a very low handicap. The sessions I have always got more from is from the mate rather than the pro even though Phil, our club pro, is very easy to understand I find it easier when it comes from a fellow amateur.


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## stevek1969 (Sep 14, 2013)

The other thing is would you have the patience to stand there hour after hour giving lessons, sometimes you'd need patience of a saint .

2 of my mates are level 1 qualified and are better players than the Pro at our place ,they no there stuff but one of them still get lessons from him, we ask him why a different pair of eyes


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## Wayman (Sep 14, 2013)

You need a handicap of 4 or less first


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## NST (Sep 14, 2013)

SaintHacker said:



			In fairness that was more to do with the fact he claimed he could teach a complete beginner to be a scratch player inside 6 weeks using only a 7 iron, or something along those lines...

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Ha ha, where can I sign up to that.


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## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I am sure there is something behind the OP and the question.
		
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I got a genuine PM from someone offering to pay, that's it. That's all that prompted the post as it made me sit up and ask WHY.

I did say to Virtuocity that I'd love to have my own driving range complete with Trackman, lounge, TV's, putting area, bunker area, the whole shebang! so to speak but that's really a pipe dream... would I really want to be there for 12hrs/day, 7 days a week shelling out range balls? hmmmmmm. At least at the moment I can CHOOSE what I do, and it's fun. It wouldn't be if I was having to pay off a Â£30K trackman system.

Maybe the WGT thing that Hobbit mentioned first is at least something, a step perhaps, I'm going to have to look into that for sure... at least it says something about being able to teach even if you are still crap at fixing clubs


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## kid2 (Sep 14, 2013)

Wait a few years till i get to low singles and then you can start charging and hike the price up.....:thup:


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## percy_layer (Sep 14, 2013)

If you're looking for a qualification for teaching only,  maybe the PGA route is not for you. 

You need to be sure what you want to do,  how many lessons,  what you need to earn,  etc
A lot of venues charge either a percentage of income or a rent for you to teach there. 
Are you prepared to spend at least 10 hours a day at the range,  even when you're not coaching?


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## I am Spartacus (Sep 14, 2013)

110% do it.

If your half as good as what you type Leadbetter and Foley wouldn't get a look in and I would have to type theres that guy I used to rib now a millionaire teaching Rors and co.

Only you will ken what is right for you but you need to consider what impact it will have on your wife and family.


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## JustOne (Sep 14, 2013)

I am Spartacus said:



			110% do it.

If your half as good as what you type Leadbetter and Foley wouldn't get a look in and I would have to type theres that guy I used to rib now a millionaire teaching Rors and co.

Only you will ken what is right for you but you need to consider what impact it will have on your wife and family.
		
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What am I typing that is so great? I like to help people with their swings that's all. I don't tell them that they'll be on the tour next week, on the contrary I tell them they'll probably be shanking for a month unless they practice.

I think this is all going a bit OTT. With these two threads going at the same time I feel a bit exposed right now, so I'm off to watch the golf on tele.

I do appreciate your comments though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 14, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I feel a bit exposed right now.
		
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Not for the first time, especially at weekends or so the rumour goes


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## SocketRocket (Sep 14, 2013)

James.  I believe you have a young family, if so then your first consideration must be to them and whether they would have a better life from your considered change of career.   I don't know what you do for a living now but I guess it puts bread on the table, working towards a PGA qualification would probably mean getting yourself into a Golf club as an assistant while working through your PGA modules, or some full time University course.   Both options very difficult for an 'EHem!' mature student.

My advice would be to carry on helping people as you do now but be careful about taking any renumeration, even expenses as this could loose your amateur status.   Whatever your current employment, if you are happy doing it then consider seriously what you may have to gain.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 14, 2013)

Do it,give it your best shot.
You will regret it if you don't.


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## DCB (Sep 14, 2013)

Well in this day and age you can go on an electricians training course and become an 'electrician' in three months. You can go on a plumbers course and become a 'plumber' in about 10 weeks. So why not a quick and easy course to become a golf coach.

PS If i was getting my house rewired, I'd be looking for a electrical contractor registered with SELECT and if I was to need a plumber I'd be going to a SNIPEF registered company. So it follows that if I was needing lessons, I'd go to a PGA Pro.


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## lyden (Sep 14, 2013)

Disagree with that with the handicap he has been previously in the eyes of the golfing world he is an elite amateur and is well within his rights to turn pro and go to q-school. I've known PGA coaches off 4 when they turned, your obviously a great player and if you have a keen interest in the golf swing and teaching it then you can improve anyone's game.


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## Iaing (Sep 14, 2013)

Perhaps Homer and yourself could go into partnership as he's been an assistant previously!

Snake Oil anyone? :rofl:


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## granters (Sep 14, 2013)

I couldn't give a monkeys what a coach plays off, some people are terrific with the understanding of things, but may not have the physical ability to do it themselves. It's about watching someone else and getting them to do things better. I spend 30 hours a week advising engineers on very technical issues. I couldn't do their jobs in a million years but am able to understand the theory of what they are trying to achieve and explain the solution. Some of us are thinkers, some are doers. I don't want a technically proficient coach showing me how he does it, I want him to show me how to do it in a way that suits and improves me


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Rallo Tubbs said:



			So why not his own game,are you saying he was of 4 and is now off 6 if so he can't seem to improve his own game never mind anyone else. I can't et my head round the support for this guy, what would the reaction be if folk were paying for his advice.......
		
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Hypothetically if you were a +3 golfer and then you broke your pelvis in a car crash and could no longer play the game to the standard you used to wouldn't it be something if you were still able to teach? you wouldn't be able to if you couldn't maintain a 4 h/cap. What about if you just let your game lapse because you didn't really enjoy it any more but loved teaching? or stopped to have a family?

FWIW I'm cool with my own game, I enjoy it more now than I used to.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

DCB said:



			PS If i was getting my house rewired, I'd be looking for a electrical contractor registered with SELECT and if I was to need a plumber I'd be going to a SNIPEF registered company. So it follows that if I was needing lessons, I'd go to a PGA Pro.
		
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Whilst I do agree with that sentiment I think that if my house might flood I'd probably want the SNIPEF guy, so I don't kill myself I'd want the SELECT electrician, if I was about to make a parachute jump or go scuba diving or fly a plane then I'd want qualified people.... but hitting a ball with a stick around a field as a hobby? I think some people are really over rating their own ability/judgement to play the game. Once you're down to about a 1 h/cap have won your club champs and are thinking of getting into County golf or higher then you DO really need someone who has ALL of the latest technology and probably a really rich dad to pay for it.... but a 12 h/capper who can't get it out of a bunker or an 8 h/capper who thins his irons??? hmmmmm. So many talented golfers on the forum, who knew!!!


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## Foxholer (Sep 15, 2013)

James,

My tuppence worth...

Ask yourself what the benefits from becoming PGA qualified. 

Find out the cost of becoming PGA qualified

Ask yourself whether the benefits are worth the cost. Only you can answer that.

Check out Birmingham University's Under and Post Graduate courses - and whether that's what you need/want.


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## bobmac (Sep 15, 2013)

Even though you haven't asked me what I think, which I thought would of been sensible, here's my 2ps worth.
For your 'sponsor' he'll have to shell out around Â£5000 for the PGA qualification.
What do you get?
You get recognition.
Anywhere you go in the world people will recognise and respect the qualification.

When I was 42, I was in a very similar boat, loved helping people, knew quite a lot about the swing and had been CatI since I was 16.
But few took me seriously when I offered to help them.

I also looked into the EGTF.
You may remember I suggested them to you about 4 years ago.
But when you ask around, EVERYONE BAR NONE insisted on the PGA qualification for their teaching staff.
I'm afraid there's no getting round that unless you can get your own range but I fear the set up and running costs would be crippling.

You may not want to learn how to fix clubs, learn about the rules or run a business but to get the recognition you obviously want there's no other way, believe me I looked.

But I did learn one thing with the PGA and that was how to teach.
Not just the golf swing but how to teach in general.
They teach you how to teach and not only what to teach.
Then it's up to you how you continue and develop what you teach to you pupils.

There's no doubting your knowledge, passion, and patience for teaching the game but I still feel and have said to you many times, if you want to be taken seriously by more people and want to help your pupils more, learn to teach properly.

Anyway, as the recession has hit hard, I'm up at 4 am on a Sunday and I'm off to my part time job which I do to supplement my teaching as there's not a lot of lessons going on out there.

If you want to enjoy helping people and have a laugh, stick to what you're doing.
If you want to be taken seriously by the nay sayers, get qualified.


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## Smiffy (Sep 15, 2013)

Not being funny James, cos you know I love you to bits.
But I think you are a bit "fragile".
You are not in the best of health, you are continually complaining of your arms, feet, legs, back or wrists aching if you play too much.
I'd stick to what you do best


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## richy (Sep 15, 2013)

You're talking as if it were a shoe in that you'd pass the course. 

Ok, someone may well front the fees for you but what's to say you'd pass all aspects of he course. From what I hear just 'knowing' about the swing might not cut it


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## pokerjoke (Sep 15, 2013)

Iaing said:



			Perhaps Homer and yourself could go into partnership as he's been an assistant previously!

Snake Oil anyone? :rofl:
		
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Perhaps Homer could be JOs guinea pig.
If JO got Homer to single figures,he would quickly become known as a miracle worker.
No qualifications needed.
Banter.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 15, 2013)

bobmac said:



			Even though you haven't asked me what I think, which I thought would of been sensible, here's my 2ps worth.
For your 'sponsor' he'll have to shell out around Â£5000 for the PGA qualification.
What do you get?
You get recognition.
Anywhere you go in the world people will recognise and respect the qualification.

When I was 42, I was in a very similar boat, loved helping people, knew quite a lot about the swing and had been CatI since I was 16.
But few took me seriously when I offered to help them.

I also looked into the EGTF.
You may remember I suggested them to you about 4 years ago.
But when you ask around, EVERYONE BAR NONE insisted on the PGA qualification for their teaching staff.
I'm afraid there's no getting round that unless you can get your own range but I fear the set up and running costs would be crippling.

You may not want to learn how to fix clubs, learn about the rules or run a business but to get the recognition you obviously want there's no other way, believe me I looked.

But I did learn one thing with the PGA and that was how to teach.
Not just the golf swing but how to teach in general.
They teach you how to teach and not only what to teach.
Then it's up to you how you continue and develop what you teach to you pupils.

There's no doubting your knowledge, passion, and patience for teaching the game but I still feel and have said to you many times, if you want to be taken seriously by more people and want to help your pupils more, learn to teach properly.

Anyway, as the recession has hit hard, I'm up at 4 am on a Sunday and I'm off to my part time job which I do to supplement my teaching as there's not a lot of lessons going on out there.

If you want to enjoy helping people and have a laugh, stick to what you're doing.
If you want to be taken seriously by the nay sayers, get qualified.
		
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Welcome back Bob
Good advice
PGA or nothing JO


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## CMAC (Sep 15, 2013)

A PM from a forummer offering to pay Â£5000 (based on Bobs post) to get you PGA qualified! Was it genuine do you think? Wonder what the motivation was?

My thoughts, if you wanted to be PGA qualified you'd have looked into it or done it before a mystery benefactor sends a pm on a golf forum.

I certainly enjoy helping someone improve, if they want to, would that enjoyment wane if it was more mercenary?

What's to stop you doing it now, getting paid and giving up your amateur status? Is it that important to play a monthly medal and have a handicap? There's a good few 'nomad' golfers on here who seem to enjoy their golf lifestyle. 

Good luck in whatever you choose, just think about your choice and why you are doing it, if you're happy in your choice you will prosper.


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## PieMan (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm the same with football I know more about coaching that the coaches at my kids team but I don't give them advise as they have there badges and I'm just a frustrated parent living trying to live my dream thru my kid.
		
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With respect, not sure I agree with that. With football, in my experience unless you've played the game at a decent level ie. professionally / very high standard semi professionally, then a parent will not know more about coaching kids football than a qualified coach - there is much more to it than just kicking a ball around. And kids football is so much different to adults football. Lost count the number of times my parents have told me that I should be doing certain drills; or that their son "is a striker". I politely ignore them and just get on with the programme I have devised for their development as what the parents have been coached 20+ years ago is so out of date it's frightening.


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## PieMan (Sep 15, 2013)

PieMan said:



			With football, in my experience unless you've played the game at a decent level ie. professionally / very high standard semi professionally.
		
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Should've said that I spent 6 years as a schoolboy at a pro club and then most of my late teens / early 20s playing semi professionally, but how I was coached - technique, positional play, and how we used to play ie 11 aside matches on full size pitches, is totally different from how I have to approach the development of my players now. I reckon about 20% at the most of the coaching I received between the ages of 9 and 13 are actually relevant now.


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## Berger (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Whilst I do agree with that sentiment I think that if my house might flood I'd probably want the SNIPEF guy, so I don't kill myself I'd want the SELECT electrician, if I was about to make a parachute jump or go scuba diving or fly a plane then I'd want qualified people.... but hitting a ball with a stick around a field as a hobby? I think some people are really over rating their own ability/judgement to play the game. Once you're down to about a 1 h/cap have won your club champs and are thinking of getting into County golf or higher then you DO really need someone who has ALL of the latest technology and probably a really rich dad to pay for it.... but a 12 h/capper who can't get it out of a bunker or an 8 h/capper who thins his irons??? hmmmmm. So many talented golfers on the forum, who knew!!!
		
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Golf is a hobby, but it's not a cheap one. Most club members are likely to have a bag with equipment that cost over Â£500 and a membership over Â£500 a year as well. Regardless of handicap people commit a lot of time and money to play golf and improving our game is important. 

If someone is paying Â£20-25 for a lesson they want to make sure it's worthwhile. Without knowing the coach personally, a PGA qualification shows that they have achieved a certain standard of coaching and have spent years achieving the qualification. In a straight choice between a PGA pro and a non PGA pro the vast majority will choose the pro.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 15, 2013)

PieMan said:



			Should've said that I spent 6 years as a schoolboy at a pro club and then most of my late teens / early 20s playing semi professionally, but how I was coached - technique, positional play, and how we used to play ie 11 aside matches on full size pitches, is totally different from how I have to approach the development of my players now. I reckon about 20% at the most of the coaching I received between the ages of 9 and 13 are actually relevant now.
		
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Yes but what do you know about diet and nutrition.
Pies and a pint doesn't work these days.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 15, 2013)

Solid advice from Bobmac.

The PGA course is not so easy nowadays, I know a few good lads who struggled to pass.
Teaching to teach is also a hard thing to learn.
When I retired I gained my clubgolf level one coaching cert. to help coach kids.
There was about a dozen of us on a weekend course. I really struggled with the method and terms.. eg show me your hold [grip].
I was not the only one, many were low handicap players.
By far the best of the group was an 18 handicap female primary school teacher. 

Bear in mind I was an ex pro/coach with a decent track record and the course was to assist the Pro coaching young kids.

The only proper way is through the PGA.
You could set yourself up at as a range coach without qualifications.....many have tried and most of them have failed to earn enough money to survive. You also lose amateur status.


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## Farneyman (Sep 15, 2013)

If you want to make a living from giving lessons then I would say you have to 100% PGA certified to do it.

It is all well and good giving free advice to folk here, in the same way a friend would on the range, however as mentioned numerous times a stranger looking for a lesson will go for PGA recognised pro over non PGA recognised. I know I would also.

As someone who left a secure job to return to uni for a post grad, and 4 years later still no permanent work, I would make the choice very carefully. What ever you decide to do good luck.

Now Im away to check the yellow pages to see if you can get a golf lesson from a non PGA certified coach. Wonder will there any listed??? Just curious.


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## AMcC (Sep 15, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You could set yourself up at as a range coach without qualifications.....many have tried and most of them have failed to earn enough money to survive. You also lose amateur status.
		
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Allegedly this happened at my local range. The previous head coach was not a PGA pro.  He was coaching handicap golfers as well as overseeing and running classes for the kids to learn. The group lessons were very busy and appeared to be a huge success.  He has moved on now, and not sure what happened.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

bobmac said:



			Even though you haven't asked me what I think, which I thought would of been sensible,
		
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Sensible?

You left the forum to go slate me behind my back (like a child) on the other 'uber secret forum' where there's nothing but swearing and duplicate posts from here. I saw your posts backstabbing me, have a good laugh why don't you. Go to the swearing place... I'm sure you'll sell a lot of V-Easys from there!! I'm surprised to see you can even show your face back here.


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## I am Spartacus (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Sensible?

You left the forum to go slate me behind my back (like a child) on the other 'uber secret forum' where there's nothing but swearing and duplicate posts from here. I saw your posts backstabbing me, have a good laugh why don't you. Go to the swearing place... I'm sure you'll sell a lot of V-Easys from there!! I'm surprised to see you can even show your face back here.
		
Click to expand...

Pot and kettle. 

Your allowed to slate PGA qualified professionals but you can't take any back? Hardly seems fair to me.


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## bobmac (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm surprised to see you can even show your face back here.
		
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Whatever.
I'll keep my advice to myself from now on.



pokerjoke said:



			Welcome back Bob
		
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Don't worry, I'm not stopping.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

I am Spartacus said:



			Pot and kettle. 

Your allowed to slate PGA qualified professionals but you can't take any back? Hardly seems fair to me.
		
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I'm cool with everything, this place is brilliant, I love it here, the people here are fantastic golf enthusiasts, I don't see the need to leave just to take pops at the people that are here. I take my fair share of stick from people that don't necessarily like me or believe a word i'm saying but I understand that it's their prerogative to be that way. If I want to spent 8 or 12 hours with someone then that's up to me and them. If other people don't like that and want to voice their opinion then that's fine with me, I don't go running away just so I can say childish things about them behind their backs.

Is that you Crawford????????


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

I am Spartacus said:



			Have you got a short memory, you were only enlightened yesterday Sherlock. 


:thup:
		
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PM me... enlightened? I don't know what you're talking about.


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## Doon frae Troon (Sep 15, 2013)

In some ways it is sad that the PGA has such a stranglehold on coaching/advice.

I could name Harold Swash and Paul Trevillion as putting 'thinkers'
John Shade, Ronnie's father who was a greenkeeper and invented a whole new way of swinging with his square to square method.
Perhaps there is a case for the monopolies commission.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			In some ways it is sad that the PGA has such a stranglehold on coaching/advice.

I could name Harold Swash and Paul Trevillion as putting 'thinkers'
John Shade, Ronnie's father who was a greenkeeper and invented a whole new way of swinging with his square to square method.
Perhaps there is a case for the monopolies commission.
		
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Indeed. There are many well respected golf coaches who were never PGA qualified, many of whom contributed to The Golfing Machine and is the 'bible' that many pros swear by. It just popped to mind.... do you happen to know if Mo Norman was a qualified instructor? I find it hard to believe he'd pass the test.


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## Smiffy (Sep 15, 2013)

Why all the hatred and venom aimed at James? Yes, he has his faults (don't we all). I've met and played with the guy loads of times. I can honestly say that there aren't that many guys I have met who are as funny as him to spend some time with. Just as long as the conversation doesn't get on to sex....
He has had a lot of flak aimed at him over the years. But I've never seen him react badly before, resort to name calling, or lose his rag. He's one of the most laid back guys you can meet on here.


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## Whee (Sep 15, 2013)

Smiffy said:



			Why all the hatred and venom aimed at James? Yes, he has his faults (don't we all). I've met and played with the guy loads of times. I can honestly say that there aren't that many guys I have met who are as funny as him to spend some time with. Just as long as the conversation doesn't get on to sex....
He has had a lot of flak aimed at him over the years. But I've never seen him react badly before, resort to name calling, or lose his rag. He's one of the most laid back guys you can meet on here.
		
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I'll echo your thoughts there Smiffy, although I don't know Just One, i've always found his posts to be helpful, well thought out and constructive - much the same way Bob's posts are.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Sensible?

You left the forum to go slate me behind my back (like a child) on the other 'uber secret forum' where there's nothing but swearing and duplicate posts from here. I saw your posts backstabbing me, have a good laugh why don't you. Go to the swearing place... I'm sure you'll sell a lot of V-Easys from there!! I'm surprised to see you can even show your face back here.
		
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Well said James.


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Sensible?

You left the forum to go slate me behind my back (like a child) on the other 'uber secret forum' where there's nothing but swearing and duplicate posts from here. I saw your posts backstabbing me, have a good laugh why don't you. Go to the swearing place... I'm sure you'll sell a lot of V-Easys from there!! I'm surprised to see you can even show your face back here.
		
Click to expand...

Insinuating that a forum member is here purely for financial gain ? (selling V easy's)
I do hope an infraction is forthcoming, as per forum rules.


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## stevek1969 (Sep 15, 2013)

PieMan said:



			With respect, not sure I agree with that. With football, in my experience unless you've played the game at a decent level ie. professionally / very high standard semi professionally, then a parent will not know more about coaching kids football than a qualified coach - there is much more to it than just kicking a ball around. And kids football is so much different to adults football. Lost count the number of times my parents have told me that I should be doing certain drills; or that their son "is a striker". I politely ignore them and just get on with the programme I have devised for their development as what the parents have been coached 20+ years ago is so out of date it's frightening.
		
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I did mate playing semi pro or junior up here until illness curtailed me a 23, my family were pro's both dad and brother so i no my stuff, my dad taught us from 11 till 15 and all training was done with a ball each the only way it should be IMO ,to much is put on how big you are how far you kick it ,i listen to some of the teams he plays against and some of these other coaches are shocking.

I was in Holland a few years back meeting some friends and watch the way they do it ,all the age groups have a different size pitch and goals to suit and the emphasis on ball work is immense, i think we're missing a trick here.

My young lads mates play for a pro team and there on a diet at 14 years old now thats taking it a bit to far.


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## User20205 (Sep 15, 2013)

Mungoscorner said:



			Insinuating that a forum member is here purely for financial gain ? (selling V easy's)
I do hope an infraction is forthcoming, as per forum rules.
		
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 We'll all be banned at this rate mate

Is what your doing the forum version of waving an imaginary yellow card??


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## PieMan (Sep 15, 2013)

stevek1969 said:



			I did mate playing semi pro or junior up here until illness curtailed me a 23, my family were pro's both dad and brother so i no my stuff, my dad taught us from 11 till 15 and all training was done with a ball each the only way it should be IMO ,to much is put on how big you are how far you kick it ,i listen to some of the teams he plays against and some of these other coaches are shocking.

I was in Holland a few years back meeting some friends and watch the way they do it ,all the age groups have a different size pitch and goals to suit and the emphasis on ball work is immense, i think we're missing a trick here.

My young lads mates play for a pro team and there on a diet at 14 years old now thats taking it a bit to far.
		
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Well that's ok then! :ears: All that you've mentioned above is exactly what is happening now in England with the guidelines put in place by the English FA. As I have said in previous posts on the subject, it's about 20 years too late but at least it's a start. Do you know what qualifications your kids coaches have? I cannot continue being an FA registered coach unless I undertake a certain amount of personal development each year.


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 15, 2013)

therod said:



			We'll all be banned at this rate mate

Is what your doing the forum version of waving an imaginary yellow card??

Click to expand...

I like consistency, "whats good for the goose is good for the gander".

Rules are rules.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

DCB said:



			PS If i was getting my house rewired, I'd be looking for a electrical contractor registered with SELECT and if I was to need a plumber I'd be going to a SNIPEF registered company. So it follows that if I was needing lessons, I'd go to a PGA Pro.
		
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I was just thinking about this and something entered my feeble little brain..... here goes....


If you employed a fully qualified plumber would you be happy if he came to fix your boiler and patched it up with a bit of cardboard tube and a paper clip? and says... "there, try that and see how it goes for a couple of weeks, it's not going to give you hot water but it should get warm which is better than you're getting right now"


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## stevek1969 (Sep 15, 2013)

PieMan said:



			Well that's ok then! :ears: All that you've mentioned above is exactly what is happening now in England with the guidelines put in place by the English FA. As I have said in previous posts on the subject, it's about 20 years too late but at least it's a start. Do you know what qualifications your kids coaches have? I cannot continue being an FA registered coach unless I undertake a certain amount of personal development each year.
		
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Haha, in Scotland we're 25 years behind, they've just awarded Edinburgh with a cheaper version of what St Georges is . I think there level 3 trained ,last year they had a young lad doing it as well but he's been snapped up by Dundee FC to run there youth set up, i'm not sure if they do development classes every year .

Up here Dundee United for the past 4 years have doing scholarships with the school my young lad goes to ,training before and after school as well as academic work and i've seen some really good players there, do any of the English clubs do similar or do they all do it.


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## Smiffy (Sep 15, 2013)

Mungoscorner said:



			Insinuating that a forum member is here purely for financial gain ? (selling V easy's)
I do hope an infraction is forthcoming, as per forum rules.
		
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Is there a forum rule for insinuating that a forum member is here for financial gain then??? That's a new one on me.
I hope there's not one for insinuating that a forum member is a compulsive liar


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## PieMan (Sep 15, 2013)

stevek1969 said:



			Up here Dundee United for the past 4 years have doing scholarships with the school my young lad goes to ,training before and after school as well as academic work and i've seen some really good players there, do any of the English clubs do similar or do they all do it.
		
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A number do - think it depends on the club and resources. I lost a lad to Watford Academy for this season (he is 9) and he has the option of being schooled as well as his football coaching. He's not allowed to play school football or for a local team, so I think that can only benefit him. Watford have excellent links with all the local clubs in their 'catchment area' so get a lot of boys to look at. My club also has about 15 boys in their development centre, as well as another 10 at Arsenal and Spurs development centres, so we as a club must be doing something right!!

Anyway, back to JustOne and his dilemma seeing as we've sorted kids football coaching in England and Scotland!!


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## Birchy (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I was just thinking about this and something entered my feeble little brain..... here goes....


If you employed a fully qualified plumber would you be happy if he came to fix your boiler and patched it up with a bit of cardboard tube and a paper clip? and says... "there, try that and see how it goes for a couple of weeks, it's not going to give you hot water but it should get warm which is better than you're getting right now"
		
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You seem to keep tarring fully qualified professionals with this quick fix jibe.

If you got fully qualified do you think your gonna get 12 or 8 hours etc with people who want a lesson? How much are you likely to teach them in 30 mins - an hour? Similar to a current PGA professional imo so how would you feel if people said you only give quick fixes?

Would i have a lesson with an unqualified person? Yes because i know plenty qualified people at things who are useless and many unqualified who are good. The qualification will get a lot more people giving you the chance to teach them though.

From my limited experience in golf i dont think theres that much money in it and would possibly become a less enjoyable grind for you if you took this on. Its a shame theres not many more ways into golf teaching as it seems there could be some good teachers out there being lost to the game.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			You seem to keep tarring fully qualified professionals with this quick fix jibe.

If you got fully qualified do you think your gonna get 12 or 8 hours etc with people who want a lesson? How much are you likely to teach them in 30 mins - an hour? Similar to a current PGA professional imo so how would you feel if people said you only give quick fixes?

Would i have a lesson with an unqualified person? Yes because i know plenty qualified people at things who are useless and many unqualified who are good. The qualification will get a lot more people giving you the chance to teach them though.

From my limited experience in golf i dont think theres that much money in it and would possibly become a less enjoyable grind for you if you took this on. Its a shame theres not many more ways into golf teaching as it seems there could be some good teachers out there being lost to the game.
		
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(Despite your opinions of me that I've read recently elsewhere) I totally agree with your post. I'm not a great one for the quick-fix attitude but ultimately (and ironically) that's EXACTLY what most 'tips' on the forum actually are. What would I teach if I had 30 minutes? I'd teach IMPACT to every single person that didn't know it. If you make a golf swing and you don't know what impact is then where exactly are you trying to swing the club to? That would be like jumping in a taxi but not knowing your own destination.

I agree I might enjoy it less but that said I have ideas of things I would do... for example make a small brochure that covers the key aspects of a swing and give it to every person that I teach, so even in 30 minutes they'd walk away with something :thup:


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## SocketRocket (Sep 15, 2013)

Mungoscorner said:



			I like consistency, "whats good for the goose is good for the gander".

Rules are rules. 

Click to expand...

The alternative is to hang out in a corner of the school yard with a bunch of whispering, hard done by, adolesents that have nothing original to say and feed on each others bitterness.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			(Despite your opinions of me that I've read recently elsewhere) I totally agree with your post. I'm not a great one for the quick-fix attitude but ultimately (and ironically) that's EXACTLY what most 'tips' on the forum actually are. What would I teach if I had 30 minutes? I'd teach IMPACT to every single person that didn't know it. If you make a golf swing and you don't know what impact is then where exactly are you trying to swing the club to? That would be like jumping in a taxi but not knowing your own destination.

I agree I might enjoy it less but that said I have ideas of things I would do... for example make a small brochure that covers the key aspects of a swing and give it to every person that I teach, so even in 30 minutes they'd walk away with something :thup:
		
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You have something there.   I have never had a coach explain anything about impact conditions and how everthing else is just a means to this end.


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## Hobbit (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I was just thinking about this and something entered my feeble little brain..... here goes....


If you employed a fully qualified plumber would you be happy if he came to fix your boiler and patched it up with a bit of cardboard tube and a paper clip? and says... "there, try that and see how it goes for a couple of weeks, it's not going to give you hot water but it should get warm which is better than you're getting right now"
		
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So, do all fully qualified plumbers fix leaking pipes with cardboard and a paperclip? If they did, word of mouth would have seen them go out of business a long time ago. 

But going back to your original question, that depends on why you might feel there would be a need to be qualified. If it was to make a living wage from coaching, I'd say the answer is yes. It may well be that a lesser qualification, either a Level 1 PGA or a WGT ticket might achieve that if all you want is the coaching side.

If you're looking for a wider acknowledgement, and credibility, for the one-2-one's you do, it's pretty clear from some of the responses in some of your threads that you need something formal.

But a (rhetorical) question back to you. If you'd been taught how to teach would you achieve more in less time by being able to get the message across sooner and clearer?


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 15, 2013)

Smiffy said:



			Is there a forum rule for insinuating that a forum member is here for financial gain then??? That's a new one on me.
I hope there's not one for insinuating that a forum member is a compulsive liar


Click to expand...

â€¢Defamation - 6 Points, Expires 90
Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

Were there a rule about being a compulsive liar, a few people would be banned.


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 15, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			The alternative is to hang out in a corner of the school yard with a bunch of whispering, hard done by, adolesents that have nothing original to say and feed on each others bitterness.   

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Originality ? :rofl:


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## Birchy (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			(Despite your opinions of me that I've read recently elsewhere) I totally agree with your post. I'm not a great one for the quick-fix attitude but ultimately (and ironically) that's EXACTLY what most 'tips' on the forum actually are. What would I teach if I had 30 minutes? I'd teach IMPACT to every single person that didn't know it. If you make a golf swing and you don't know what impact is then where exactly are you trying to swing the club to? That would be like jumping in a taxi but not knowing your own destination.

I agree I might enjoy it less but that said I have ideas of things I would do... for example make a small brochure that covers the key aspects of a swing and give it to every person that I teach, so even in 30 minutes they'd walk away with something :thup:
		
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Only opinions of your methods rather than anything personal i might add.

PGA pros do only give a few fixes each time you see them as they build up your swing bit by bit if you work with them for a few lessons. However if somebody goes in for a fix for something they keep screwing up then what can the pro do?

The only other thing i would weigh up if i was you is can this new profession be enough for you financially etc as it seems quite a saturated area of work.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 15, 2013)

Mungoscorner said:



			â€¢Defamation - 6 Points, Expires 90
Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

Were there a rule about being a compulsive liar, a few people would be banned. 

Click to expand...

Assuming the communication is false!


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## GreiginFife (Sep 15, 2013)

If you want to teach to a wider audience than is on offer with the forum then, yes, you should become qualified. This is more from an attractiveness perspective but also credibility. 
You seem to have credibility with a loyal following of the forum and demonstrate a passion for the game and to impart knowledge which is commendable. 
However, it's a double edged sword that you are not a qualified teacher and so in some eyes (mine included) you are giving tips rather than teaching - whether that's semantics, polluted terminology, whatever there is a reason that teaching qualifications exist. 
I am competent with mechanics, can strip and rebuild engines, braking systems, suspension and running gear, I build project cars in my spare time... But, and it's a big but, I am not qualified and therefore would not impart self taught knowledge to someone else as fact. 
Would anyone want me to fix their car, or would they rather take it to a garage and to a qualified mechanic?


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## Fish (Sep 15, 2013)

:rofl:


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Ironic as it may be, it seems that the main complaintents here (is that a word?) are *ALL* the people who have recently LEFT this forum for another.... coincidence? Hmmmm......

I'm happy to be provoked... but I'm not rising to take the bait. I'll answer your questions though because I'm *happy to talk about golf* :thup:


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

GreiginFife said:



			Would anyone want me to fix their car, or would they rather take it to a garage and to a qualified mechanic?
		
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Would the mechanic patch it with some rubber tubing and say "that should run for a while now mate"?


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## GreiginFife (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Would the mechanic patch it with some rubber tubing and say "that should run for a while now mate"?
		
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What a strange thing to ask? I assume you are attempting to be analogous to something golf related. I would expect the mechanic to fix the problem that exists and what is charged for. Unfortunately in ALL walks of life there are chancers and rogues willing to provide sub-standard service. But I would never tarnish an entire industry based on a minority.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			However if somebody goes in for a fix for something they keep screwing up then what can the pro do?
		
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Again, I agree. If someone turns up and is shanking then you fix the shank* if that's what they want*.

People who contact me seem to want more... my inbox has gone ballistic in the last 7 days


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## NWJocko (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Would the mechanic patch it with some rubber tubing and say "that should run for a while now mate"?
		
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Do you honestly believe that's what all PGA pros do and how they approach lessons?

You also need to remember that a lot of golfers on,y want a quick fix..... Most people I play with who get lessons aren't really looking to build their understanding of the swing from the ground up. They just want to hit x club better/straighter.  Do you think you would get frustrated with customers with that approach?

You seem quite defensive so just to clarify these are genuine questions!


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

GreiginFife said:



			What a strange thing to ask? I assume you are attempting to be analogous to something golf related.
		
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Is a car mechanic golf related?  who's doing the analogy here? I think I was replying to *someone else's* analogy.


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## Birchy (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Again, I agree. If someone turns up and is shanking then you fix the shank* if that's what they want*.

People who contact me seem to want more... my inbox has gone ballistic in the last 7 days 

Click to expand...

I can understand that too and im sure if they had a few sessions a bit more managable time wise with you they would see greater results if you know your stuff etc just as they would with any PGA pro imo.

We all want more  I think theres ways of doing it though. You cant learn it all at once imo.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

NWJocko said:



			Most people I play with who get lessons aren't really looking to build their understanding of the swing from the ground up. They just want to hit x club better/straighter.  Do you think you would get frustrated with customers with that approach?
		
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Not at all, I love it when someone wants to improve their game.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I can understand that too and im sure if they had a few sessions a bit more managable time wise with you they would see greater results if you know your stuff etc just as they would with any PGA pro imo.

We all want more  I think theres ways of doing it though. You cant learn it all at once imo.
		
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Virtuocity lives 400 miles away!!!... we *didn't have* more time... I can't see him 10 times for 1/2hr each time.

Gibbo travelled 140 miles round trip, we didn't have more time. it was one day or not at all. You don't drive 70miles each way for 30 mins and a quick fix very often.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Is a car mechanic golf related?  who's doing the analogy here? I think I was replying to *someone else's* analogy.
		
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I never used an example of a rubber hose to fix anything. So... ??
That aside, you seem to want to help people and people want you to help them. If you don't want to be a PGA certified pro to do so then don't. If you do, then do. It really is that simple.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			You have something there.   I have never had a coach explain anything about impact conditions and how everthing else is just a means to this end.
		
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Me neither :thup:... and I've *never* witnessed it being taught despite 100's or more lessons that I've seen. In fact you rarely even read about it,.... can you see the 100's of forum posts asking "what is impact?", No.


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## tsped83 (Sep 15, 2013)

Seems to be getting a little terse on here girls!

I think JO's commitment and passion is very commendable, and if the guy is giving up his own time to help those that request it, more power to him.

However, there are some issues in this thread that I don't agree with. The 'quick fix' insinuation I disagree with completely, although I am sure there may be a tiny minority of pro's who may approaching things this way. My recent experience with PGA professionals suggests a thoroughly comprehensive and rewarding approach. 

I would always choose a PGA pro over other advice, simply because there is a recognisable qualification there, and whether or not this is all it's cracked up to be, it shows the individual has the talent, patience and professionalism to complete it.

If my Dad were to ever read this, I would deny all of the above and say "Only your advice for me old man!". He plays off 14 and has a dodgy elbow and Furyk-like swing. When I say Furyk like i'm being polite. It looks mental.


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## Farneyman (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Sensible?

You left the forum to go slate me behind my back (like a child) on the other 'uber secret forum' where there's nothing but swearing and duplicate posts from here. I saw your posts backstabbing me, have a good laugh why don't you. Go to the swearing place... I'm sure you'll sell a lot of V-Easys from there!! I'm surprised to see you can even show your face back here.
		
Click to expand...

For the record I have been a member here since 2008 and don't spend everyday on here like some would seem to however not once in all that time have I ever read a post from Bob pushing his invention an surprise surprise he hasn't pushed it on the as you put "Uber Secret Forum".

That would be the same Uber Secret Forum that's on the world wide web for everyone and everyone.

Your constant jibs at Bob and his fellow fully trained professionals are getting a bit tiresome now.


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## chris661 (Sep 15, 2013)

The pettiness and arguing is becoming tiresome. 

STOP PLEASE.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Me neither :thup:... and I've *never* witnessed it being taught despite 100's or more lessons that I've seen. In fact you rarely even read about it,.... can you see the 100's of forum posts asking "what is impact?", No.
		
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I would suggest that pro's don't teach 'impact' because it is the end result of all the other parts of the swing coming together. Get those right and the impact will take care of itself  :thup:


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## North Mimms (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm not sure why Just One is thinking of becoming PGA qualified as he seems to think that means he will only be qualified to fix your golf swing with a paper clip and some gaffer tape.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

drive4show said:



			I would suggest that pro's don't teach 'impact' because it is the end result of all the other parts of the swing coming together. Get those right and the impact will take care of itself  :thup:
		
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Impact isn't the result of the swing, it's the point of it.


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## Birchy (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Virtuocity lives 400 miles away!!!... we *didn't have* more time... I can't see him 10 times for 1/2hr each time.

Gibbo travelled 140 miles round trip, we didn't have more time. it was one day or not at all. You don't drive 70miles each way for 30 mins and a quick fix very often.
		
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That doesnt make it the right way to teach does it?

Just because its not ideal you cant just do it any old way. A bit like some of the other dodgy analogies on this thread


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## 3offTheTee (Sep 15, 2013)

Think we need to look at original post. Has a business plan been developed. What are the costs involved ? What is the break even position? Where are the clients' coming from. How saturated is the market? What is the likely demand and what will the existing golf pros do to protect their position.

The pro that I go to is exceptional, repeat exceptional, and understand he takes about Â£29k per annum. He has other interests and is highl respected. He also told me that thee are 300 assistant pros who do not make it each year.

What makes Just One different?


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			That doesnt make it the right way to teach does it?
		
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I 'taught' them EXACTLY what they *wanted* to be 'taught'.

No different than if they'd wanted to be taught a 2 min cure for their slice.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

3offTheTee said:



			Think we need to look at original post. Has a business plan been developed. What are the costs involved ? What is the break even position? Where are the clients' coming from. How saturated is the market? What is the likely demand and what will the existing golf pros do to protect their position.

The pro that I go to is exceptional, repeat exceptional, and understand he takes about Â£29k per annum. He has other interests and is highl respected. He also told me that thee are 300 assistant pros who do not make it each year.

What makes Just One different?
		
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Good post. I'm looking at the options, costs, time etc whilst tying to determine what I'd personally get out of it. The financial side doesn't really bother me though, I'd teach for free if I had a base from which to to do so.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



*Impact isn't the result of the swing*, it's the point of it.
		
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I really have no idea what you mean by that statement


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## pokerjoke (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Good post. I'm looking at the options, costs, time etc whilst tying to determine what I'd personally get out of it. The financial side doesn't really bother me though, I'd teach for free if I had a base from which to to do so.
		
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That's good news.
I think the satisfaction of doing something you love,is seeing the results.
Also results will generate business.
In all walks of life people fail,the ones that don't are the ones that offer a great service,at
a great price and get results.
And maybe offer something different than the norm


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## Birchy (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I 'taught' them EXACTLY what they *wanted* to be 'taught'.

No different than if they'd wanted to be taught a 2 min cure for their slice.
		
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So if you became fully qualfied and some geezer came in and said i want a 12 hour range session lesson you would do it?

I know your passionate about teaching etc but you need to do whats best for the pupil. If some fatty wanted to get fit no personal trainer in their right mind would flog them for 4 hours would they??


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

drive4show said:



			I really have no idea what you mean by that statement  

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Ok, no problem. I'll explain it another way for you.

We need to hit the ball with the correct impact conditions for the shot we are going to play, so then we swing the club in a way to create those impact conditions... it's not the other way around.

If you think of the swing as a rocket, we don't just fire them into space for the hell of it... we know where they need to get to, what needs to be done... and THEN send the rocket.


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 15, 2013)

I returned to golf in 2011 after a break of four years due to a serious back problem.
I joined a club and low and behold met a fellow forummer there (small world eh ?), he had a handicap of 28, and was unable to play to it.I could see the root of the problem, but didn't feel it was my place to say, as sometimes offering advice can be taken the wrong way. After playing together for a few weeks, and sharing a few apres golf drinks, i asked if he would let me give him a few pointers, and he agreed.
I did no more than tweek his ball position and grip, i also spoke to him about course management and "taking your medicine".
Within a matter of weeks he was picking up brown envelopes, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, along with a handicap cut of 6 shots !
I didn't start a thread about the results, and i don't consider myself a swing coach.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Ok, no problem. I'll explain it another way for you.

We need to hit the ball with the correct impact conditions for the shot we are going to play, so then we swing the club in a way to create those impact conditions... it's not the other way around.

If you think of the swing as a rocket, we don't just fire them into space for the hell of it... we know where they need to get to, what needs to be done... and THEN send the rocket.
		
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Sounds to me like we are saying the same thing, swing the club correctly and the impact will take care of itself. I have never had a pro teach me to hit at the ball, always swing correctly and the clubface will pick up the ball on the way through. 

Impact is purely the end result of getting the rest of the swing correct.


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## Qwerty (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			If you think of the swing as a rocket, we don't just fire them into space for the hell of it... we know where they need to get to, what needs to be done... and THEN send the rocket.
		
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Sounds like something from the Happy Gilmore school of Golf.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

drive4show said:



			Sounds to me like we are saying the same thing, swing the club correctly and the impact will take care of itself. I have never had a pro teach me to hit at the ball, always swing correctly and the clubface will pick up the ball on the way through. 

Impact is purely the end result of getting the rest of the swing correct.
		
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No. it's the other way round. If you don't know impact where are you going to swing the club to?

example... you want to hit it low under some branches, you KNOW that you need your hands more forwards and THEN you swing, you don't swing and just HOPE that your hands arrive more forwards - does that make sense? Impact is the point of the swing. We create the correct swing with the club AFTER we know what impact conditions we want.. if you don't know impact then you're just hoping.


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## fundy (Sep 15, 2013)

Mungoscorner said:



			I returned to golf in 2011 after a break of four years due to a serious back problem.
I joined a club and low and behold met a fellow forummer there (small world eh ?), he had a handicap of 28, and was unable to play to it.I could see the root of the problem, but didn't feel it was my place to say, as sometimes offering advice can be taken the wrong way. After playing together for a few weeks, and sharing a few apres golf drinks, i asked if he would let me give him a few pointers, and he agreed.
I did no more than tweek his ball position and grip, i also spoke to him about course management and "taking your medicine".
Within a matter of weeks he was picking up brown envelopes, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, along with a handicap cut of 6 shots !
I didn't start a thread about the results, and i don't consider myself a swing coach.
		
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Now I know who to blame each time he beats me!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 15, 2013)

fundy said:



			Now I know who to blame each time he beats me!!!!!!!!!!!
		
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Oops.
Apologies mate.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			So if you became fully qualfied and some geezer came in and said i want a 12 hour range session lesson you would do it?

I know your passionate about teaching etc but you need to do whats best for the pupil. If some fatty wanted to get fit no personal trainer in their right mind would flog them for 4 hours would they??
		
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If you folded up a PGA certificate right now and slipped it in my back pocket I don't think I'm suddenly going to become a different person. If I had the time I'd spend as long as they want, just like now.

Is the guy at your club who plays off +1 wrong to stand on the range practicing all day whilst you have your feet up watching TV? Is Vijay Singh wrong to stand in a bunker practicing for 8hrs? There are many different types of people out there... a good teacher would know that


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			No. it's the other way round. If you don't know impact where are you going to swing the club to?

example... you want to hit it low under some branches, you KNOW that you need your hands more forwards and THEN you swing, you don't swing and just HOPE that your hands arrive more forwards - does that make sense? Impact is the point of the swing. We create the correct swing with the club AFTER we know what impact conditions we want.. if you don't know impact then you're just hoping.
		
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This like talking to a brick wall   Do you actually read what you post? You have just reiterated everything that I said early ie. you swing the club in the correct manner to produce a particular result. 

I've got better things to do with my time that go round in circles, you carry on arguing if you want to  :thup:


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## SocketRocket (Sep 15, 2013)

drive4show said:



			Sounds to me like we are saying the same thing, swing the club correctly and the impact will take care of itself. I have never had a pro teach me to hit at the ball, always swing correctly and the clubface will pick up the ball on the way through. 

Impact is purely the end result of getting the rest of the swing correct.
		
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The impact conditions decide how the ball will travel.  Straight, fade, slice, draw, hook, high, low, thin, ducked etc.   The impact zone where the clubface strikes the ball and how it strikes it is the most important part of the golf swing, the rest (take away, backswing, transition, downswing, release, follow through) are all components that assist in good impact conditions but do not actually create them.

I agree with JO that (most) golfers would be better armed in their learning experience if they were first educated in impact conditions and their effects on ball flight.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

drive4show said:



			This like talking to a brick wall   Do you actually read what you post? You have just reiterated everything that I said early ie. you *swing the club in the correct manner to produce a particular result*. 

I've got better things to do with my time that go round in circles, you carry on arguing if you want to  :thup:
		
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Perhaps someone else will step in and explain it in a way to you that you understand.

I'm not arguing, I was trying to *help you understand*. If you don't want to or can't then that's OK with me.



You can't produce a 'particular result' if you didn't know the result you were trying to achieve BEFORE you swing the club. The whole reason you are swinging the club is to create impact. Impact is the whole point of the swing it's why you swing the club, it's not just a result of swinging the club... I can swing the club 1000 ways and NOT achieve impact.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 15, 2013)

People should be thinking about how to swing the club correctly for the type of shot they want to hit, NOT thinking about hitting the ball. It's as simple as that.


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## Mungoscorner (Sep 15, 2013)

drive4show said:



			People should be thinking about how to swing the club correctly for the type of shot they want to hit, NOT thinking about hitting the ball. It's as simple as that.
		
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Spot on.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

drive4show said:



			People should be thinking about how to swing the club correctly for the type of shot they want to hit, NOT thinking about hitting the ball. It's as simple as that.
		
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So you determine the type of shot you want to hit... and then swing the club?


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## Hobbit (Sep 15, 2013)

Maybe I'm missing the semantics of impact but I always thought that the aim was to swing through the ball, not at it. Impact isn't taught because the swing is comprised of back and through. The danger of teaching impact is pupils end up thinking 'hit,' instead of  'through' on a particular line...


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe I'm missing the semantics of impact but I always thought that the aim was to swing through the ball, not at it. Impact isn't taught because the swing is comprised of back and through. The danger of teaching impact is pupils end up thinking 'hit,' instead of  'through' on a particular line...
		
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It's not about impact Hobbit in the sense of hitting the ball or hitting at it, and not swinging thru, it's about *impact conditions*. where the clubface/path will be at IMPACT. When you say to someone you need your club face open at impact you are not telling them to hit AT the ball. :thup:


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## Qwerty (Sep 15, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe I'm missing the semantics of impact but I always thought that the aim was to swing through the ball, not at it. Impact isn't taught because the swing is comprised of back and through. The danger of teaching impact is pupils end up thinking 'hit,' instead of  'through' on a particular line...
		
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Thats what I've always been taught Hobbit. You've put that across in quite a simple understandable fashion :thup:


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## tsped83 (Sep 15, 2013)

Ok, I felt I wagered a sensible contribution earlier, but now you're all talking tosh. We swing and hit a white ball, then we go find it and do it again, as best we can.

Good night.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 15, 2013)

Now im no expert, that hardly shocked anyone , this IMPACT thing has me , i always said its about lining the club up behind the ball aiming where you want it to go then geting the club back to this exact  set up position .. so for me its always about the position / relationship of the ball and the club at IMPACT .. how you get the club away from and back to the moment of impact is not as important ..

some times our back swing may be impared by branches or another obstruction etc set the club at the ball , swing as you are allowed , get the club back to where it was set up , good impact = good result 

Just a hackers opinion tho ,


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Qwerty said:



			Thats what I've always been taught Hobbit. You've put that across in quite a simple understandable fashion :thup:
		
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Sorry Qwerty but you've not understood the question, but you are right in what you are referring to, you'd never teach someone to hit AT the ball, IMPACT happens (as you say) as you swing thru :thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 15, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe I'm missing the semantics of impact but I always thought that the aim was to swing through the ball, not at it. Impact isn't taught because the swing is comprised of back and through. The danger of teaching impact is pupils end up thinking 'hit,' instead of  'through' on a particular line...
		
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Where is the 'Like' button when you need it  :thup:


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## bladeplayer (Sep 15, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe I'm missing the semantics of impact but I always thought that the aim was to swing through the ball, not at it. Impact isn't taught because the swing is comprised of back and through. The danger of teaching impact is pupils end up thinking 'hit,' instead of  'through' on a particular line...
		
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 to me it stiil has to be important of the position of club & ball at point of impact , then explode through that with your follow through


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			so for me its always about the position / relationship of the ball and the club at IMPACT .. how you get the club away from and back to the moment of impact is not as important ..
		
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Is the right answer :thup:

Impact is the important part, not the swing.


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## SocketRocket (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			It's not about impact Hobbit in the sense of hitting the ball or hitting at it, and not swinging thru, it's about *impact conditions*. where the clubface/path will be at IMPACT. When you say to someone you need your club face open at impact you are not telling then to hit AT the ball. :thup:
		
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Thats right.  It's the 'impact Zone' that is important, a zone that starts around a foot before the ball to a foot after it.

I think that if people are taught how the clubface should pass through the impact zone then most other things will take care of themselves.   Once someone is taught the basic setup of stance, grip and alignment they would learn better if they were given drills that achieve good impact conditions, these will change somewhat for differing clubs.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Is the right answer :thup:

Impact is the important part, not the swing.
		
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I did always think i was mad tho ..


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			So you determine the type of shot you want to hit... and then swing the club?
		
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Seeing as you didn't reply:

If you agree with this sentence (which I do) all you have to do is swap the word SHOT with the word IMPACT

then you end up with this sentence

So you determine the type of IMPACT you want to hit... and then swing the club

*Which is exactly what I said in the first place*. Impact is the point of the swing, not the result of it. You've learned something without actually knowing it - which is pretty cool :thup:

impact comes before the swing, you determine impact and THEN make the swing, not the other way round. Impact is not the result of the swing....we swing to make the impact we have ALREADY decided on :thup:


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## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2013)

Some proper cry arsin in this thread by grown men is embarrassing.

Back to the OP.

I think you should get qualified as a PGA  Pro as it will only help you improve your coaching ability.

Btw, do you coach all your the pupils the very same way?

My pro i use is immense and has helped me and my game massively over 4yrs and i would certainly travel 70+ miles for 30min lesson.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Back to the OP.

I think you should get qualified as a PGA  Pro as it will only help you improve your coaching ability.

Btw, do you coach all your the pupils the very same way?
		
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Not really. People are of different standards so they need different things, Gibbo for example needed a better posture and to get his hands more ahead whilst Virtuocity had a mahoooosive overswing and needed less work on his posture, but they both collapsed their right elbow, but for different reasons. Virtuocity had a huge 'chicken wing' from casting the club, gibbo didn't - so things aren't the same even though the swing theory IS.

BTW. I don't teach stack and tilt......... (unless someone either wants to or is already using the pattern). Virtuocity was stack and tilt (well kind of) and we've gone away from that just a little to give him better impact conditions (his right shoulder was too high and his upper body was too far forward). But I'd still recommend it to anyone that is struggling with their game.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Not really. People are of different standards so they need different things, Gibbo for example needed a better posture and to get his hands more ahead whilst Virtuocity had a mahoooosive overswing and needed less work on his posture, but they both collapsed their right elbow, but for different reasons. Virtuocity had a huge 'chicken wing' from casting the club, gibbo didn't - so things aren't the same even though the swing theory IS.

BTW. I don't teach stack and tilt unless someone either wants to or is already using the pattern. Virtuocity was stack and tilt and we've gone away from that just a little to give him better impact conditions (his right shoulder was too high and his upper body was too far forward).
		
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What's S&T got to do with what i asked you?

It's good to know your flexible with your teaching methods.

I had a overswing problem that plagued my game for nearly 2 months so i went to see my teaching pro and within 5 mins he'd FIXED my problem he never patched it up.

I've had 8 x 30 min lessons since i started playing properly in 2008 and my pro has built my swing.


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## upsidedown (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			impact comes before the swing, you determine impact and THEN make the swing, not the other way round. Impact is not the result of the swing....we swing to make the impact we have ALREADY decided on :thup:
		
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So one we decide on what we perceive to be the prefect impact for the shot we desire then how do we achieve that perfect impact position ?

For me it's a swing of the club, 97 of them today . Room for improvement me thinks but do have injury to right foot making me hold back on the shot, any tips to overcome that James ?


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			What's S&T got to do with what i asked you?

It's good to know your flexible with your teaching methods.

I had a overswing problem that plagued my game for nearly 2 months so i went to see my teaching pro and within 5 mins he'd FIXED my problem he never patched it up.

I've had 8 x 30 min lessons since i started playing properly in 2008 and my pro has built my swing.
		
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That's great, what's your h/cap? how often do you play?


(the reference to S&T is because people _think_ that's what I teach so I thought I'd mention it)


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## Foxholer (Sep 15, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Now im no expert, that hardly shocked anyone , this IMPACT thing has me , i always said its about lining the club up behind the ball aiming where you want it to go then geting the club back to this exact  set up position .. so for me its always about the position / relationship of the ball and the club at IMPACT .. how you get the club away from and back to the moment of impact is not as important ..
		
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Check this article out then! http://www.mytpi.com/articles/swing/setup_and_impact

Or just check these 2 pics out http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...M1UtfmGcTOhAeK74HACg&ved=0CFgQ9QEwBw&dur=2280

Setup and Impact positions are significantly different.

Your Pro may well have been given the impression that they are the same! Or he may well have glossed over the difference because he figured you didn't need to know.

There are plenty of myths about the golf swing that have been knocked down and plenty more to go! Whether the elimination of such myths really matters is a different question though!


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## Smiffy (Sep 15, 2013)

Farneyman said:



			That would be the same Uber Secret Forum that's on the world wide web for everyone and everyone.
		
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What's the web address again????


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

upsidedown said:



			So one we decide on what we perceive to be the prefect impact for the shot we desire then how do we achieve that perfect impact position ?
		
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You swing. If the swing is good you'll produce the impact conditions you are after.

But what happens if the impact conditions you are after DON'T create the ball flight you are after?

That's why you need to know impact.

For example... how could you teach someone to hit a straight shot if you don't know what impact conditions actually create a straight shot?

You could stand there trying to hit a straight shot, but if you're creating the conditions for a slice instead then you're never going to hit the straight shot no matter how long you stand there, you'll just keep slicing.


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## Farneyman (Sep 15, 2013)

Smiffy said:



			What's the web address again????


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I would tell you but I dont want to get done for spamming the forum.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			That's great, what's your h/cap? how often do you play?


(the reference to S&T is because people _think_ that's what I teach so I thought I'd mention it)
		
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My handicap  now is 16 and i started off 24.

Although losing 8 shots in four seasons doesn't sound execptional, my allround game has improved massively. I need to improve my course management and concentrate a bit better.

I usually play in 2 comps  a week.


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## JustOne (Sep 15, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			My handicap  now is 16 and i started off 24.

Although losing 8 shots in four seasons doesn't sound execptional, my allround game has improved massively. I need to improve my course management and concentrate a bit better.
		
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The measure of the result/value is down to the player :thup:


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## Smiffy (Sep 15, 2013)

Farneyman said:



			I would tell you but I dont want to get done for spamming the forum.
		
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Surely it's not spamming if its a website that is freely available to everyone and everyone???
http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Forums.asp

There you go...that's not spamming!! Be my guest.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 15, 2013)

Foxholer said:



			Check this article out then! http://www.mytpi.com/articles/swing/setup_and_impact

Or just check these 2 pics out http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...M1UtfmGcTOhAeK74HACg&ved=0CFgQ9QEwBw&dur=2280

Setup and Impact positions are significantly different.

Your Pro may well have been given the impression that they are the same! Or he may well have glossed over the difference because he figured you didn't need to know.

There are plenty of myths about the golf swing that have been knocked down and plenty more to go! Whether the elimination of such myths really matters is a different question though!
		
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Totally a personal thought mate ,  I had no anything to back up its correctness apart from it works for me , & im not one bit surprised i had it wrong ha ha   i was referring totally to what i try to do,  i try to get the club head back to the same spot i had it at set up ,. dont have a pro , had 3 lessons at the start of this year , first time ever , guy was on sell sell sell over drive so i couldnt take to him .. could have been 100% my fault


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## bladeplayer (Sep 15, 2013)

i



Smiffy said:



http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Forums.asp

There you go...that's not spamming!! Be my guest.
		
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You sure  the A & the R are not the wrong way round mate ?


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## SocketRocket (Sep 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Is the right answer :thup:

Impact is the important part, not the swing.
		
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The attached video is a very simple explanation on how the clubface should impact the ball.  This is the kind of instruction beginners would benefit from:

[video=youtube;XZkBnvuvk-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZkBnvuvk-Y[/video]


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## Smiffy (Sep 15, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			i

You sure  the A & the R are not the wrong way round mate ? 

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A lot more interesting than golf geezer


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## Foxholer (Sep 15, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Totally a personal thought mate ,  I had no anything to back up its correctness apart from it works for me , & im not one bit surprised i had it wrong ha ha   i was referring totally to what i try to do,  i try to get the club head back to the same spot i had it at set up ,. dont have a pro , had 3 lessons at the start of this year , first time ever , guy was on sell sell sell over drive so i couldnt take to him .. could have been 100% my fault
		
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That's fine then - as long as you appreciate the difference and don't teach that they are the same! For me, I believe the neutral set-up may have been a contributor to my lack of shaft lean at impact. Impact position is certainly my main thought even at address.


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## SatchFan (Sep 15, 2013)

Back on the topic of impact there was an article in April's edition of Todays Golfer entitled Impact, Golf's New Fundamental by Scott Cranfield in which he gave advice and drills on the moment of impact. Some of you might find it interesting.


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## virtuocity (Sep 15, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			The attached video is a very simple explanation on how the clubface should impact the ball.  This is the kind of instruction beginners would benefit from:

[video=youtube;XZkBnvuvk-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZkBnvuvk-Y[/video]
		
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Think he needs to check his grip.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 15, 2013)

Smiffy said:



			A lot more interesting than golf geezer


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only kidding mate ..


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## bladeplayer (Sep 15, 2013)

Foxholer said:



			That's fine then - as long as you appreciate the difference and don't teach that they are the same! .
		
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Me teach ? never mate ,   i dont know enough about golf to even consider doing that ... blissfully hacking around in limited ability & considerable ignorance ..


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## NWJocko (Sep 15, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			. blissfully hacking around in limited ability & considerable ignorance ..
		
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That's one of the best lines I've read on this forum, pretty much sums me up aswell :thup:


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## Vice (Sep 15, 2013)

Says the two single figure h'cappers 




NWJocko said:



			That's one of the best lines I've read on this forum, pretty much sums me up aswell :thup:
		
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bladeplayer said:



			Me teach ? never mate ,   i dont know enough about golf to even consider doing that ... blissfully hacking around in limited ability & considerable ignorance ..
		
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## Alex1975 (Sep 16, 2013)

Impact impact impact...

Every month I have a lesson with my pro, every month we talk about a position he wants me to be in on the way back. I started to think I was either thick or physically unable. Before I move on he is absolutely correct about the position. 

I spent a year trying to attain this position, hundreds of balls every night, and then I got sick of it. I sat on the floor on my matt with a ball and a club and looked at impact... Actually looked where the club wanted to be. After a while I got up and slowly started to place my body around the impact position. As the hours went by I build per shot and setup around this position, all I did was work over and over to find the best way to phisically reach that position in the easiest way my body can. 

To cut a very long story short I have absolutely no clue how I get to it, I have no knolage of my back swing and I can't recall it even right after a shot. Previously I could only tell you about it, I have a sneaky suspicion I even took a peek at the shaft on the way back. It would seem I now hit that position more times than not. My game has taken a turn I never believed possible.

Me as a person needed to be taught the impact position, my body knew how to get there *once it knew where it was going.*

It won't be the same for everyone.


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## Ethan (Sep 16, 2013)

I haven't read all (or indeed most) of the 16 pages, but in summary, have we concluded that the way you hit the ball is quite important in golf?

Wow.

Could someone now also look at the important questions of whether bears use Andrex and whether the Pope is a Catholic?


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## DCB (Sep 16, 2013)

Ethan said:



			I haven't read all (or indeed most) of the 16 pages, but in summary, have we concluded that the way you hit the ball is quite important in golf?

Wow.

Could someone now also look at the important questions of whether bears use Andrex and whether the Pope is a Catholic?
		
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Ethan,

Bears are ruffty tuffty sort of animals, so it goes that they use Izal to do the necessary :lol:


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## blackpuddinmonster (Sep 16, 2013)

DCB said:



			Bears are ruffty tuffty sort of animals, so it goes that they use Izal to do the necessary :lol:
		
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No wonder they're grumpy.


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