# Swing Speed and Shaft Flex



## Gopher (Aug 3, 2014)

With all the recent talk of shaft types, it's occurred to me that it may be more important than I thought.

Can you relate a swing speed to a shaft flex? ie. my driver speed is touching 100mph and the fitting guy told me I need a stiff shaft - is that correct and does it apply to all the clubs?  All my other clubs are regular, I guess because they are shorter and don't generate as much speed..?  Does it vary with manufacturer?

Slightly confused, can anyone enlighten me?


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## nemicu (Aug 3, 2014)

The point is, can you relate a shaft flex to a swing speed?
Naturally, a swing speed is a measurable unit - unfortunately, "flex" isn't. You bet it varies with each manufacturer (and even within their own product lines) so it really makes flex a variable quantity.
Instead of categorising yourself into a system which has no structure of limits at either end of a defined scale (i.e. flex) it's much better to get a proper fitting to decide which works best - whatever the flex may be.


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## MadAdey (Aug 3, 2014)

Gopher said:



			With all the recent talk of shaft types, it's occurred to me that it may be more important than I thought.

Can you relate a swing speed to a shaft flex? ie. my driver speed is touching 100mph and the fitting guy told me I need a stiff shaft - is that correct and does it apply to all the clubs?  All my other clubs are regular, I guess because they are shorter and don't generate as much speed..?  Does it vary with manufacturer?

Slightly confused, can anyone enlighten me?  

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Go with the most flexible shaft you can is my advice. My driver is around the 107mph mark and my 6i is at 98mph. Fitting charts say I am in the X-stiff range and I do have them in my irons, but my woods are stiff. 

My my advice would be this. Go to a fitting centre that is on a range, try out what ever club it is you like in both the regular and stiff shaft and take a look for yourself. Also go on a flightscope and see the difference in distances, as you might just be surprised that there is not a lot of difference. If your normal swing is not quite fast enough for the stiff shaft, you might have problems on a day that you are feeling a bit tired and not swinging fast enough.


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## Ethan (Aug 3, 2014)

Gopher said:



			With all the recent talk of shaft types, it's occurred to me that it may be more important than I thought.

Can you relate a swing speed to a shaft flex? ie. my driver speed is touching 100mph and the fitting guy told me I need a stiff shaft - is that correct and does it apply to all the clubs?  All my other clubs are regular, I guess because they are shorter and don't generate as much speed..?  Does it vary with manufacturer?

Slightly confused, can anyone enlighten me?  

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You will probably fit a stiff shaft for most of the common brands, but it depends on other factors too, including tempo, launch, feel preferences, distance vs control and other intangibles. Broadly speaking the faster your tempo, and the more you want control over distance, the stiffer your flex. As said by others, regular in one brand can play the same as stiff in another. Indeed, some would say that shaft weight is more important than flex for most players. In some brands, shaft flex is basically determined by weight anyway. 

Jim Furyk's bag contains clubs with X, S and R+ flex on them. 

See a good fitter, probably one at a golf club or specialist fitting centre.


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## virtuocity (Aug 3, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;HitRUPoKiiM]http://youtu.be/HitRUPoKiiM?list=UUZelGnfKLXic4gDP63dIRxw[/video]


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## virtuocity (Aug 3, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;ZVZ3PCgxTlw]http://youtu.be/ZVZ3PCgxTlw?list=UUZelGnfKLXic4gDP63dIRxw[/video]


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## virtuocity (Aug 3, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;N5Z5I8y-uQs]http://youtu.be/N5Z5I8y-uQs?list=UUZelGnfKLXic4gDP63dIRxw[/video]


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## Foxholer (Aug 3, 2014)

100 mph is fairly well into the range where 'Stiff' was appropriate, but as others have said, there are all sorts of 'Stiff' shafts - some of which may not be marked as such. 

The old adage 'play the softest shaft you can control' is still appropriate.

A Grafalloy Blue (now mainly white) or Aldila Proto*p*ype (the sick coloured one, not the blue one) play seriously stiff to flex; some Matrix series play soft to flex. It all depends on the shaft profile. Stock shafts, especially certain OEMs, are often miles off their stated 'Stiff', Reg' etc. category!

The same adage applies, perhaps even more-so, to irons, though feel and flight are important here too.

If you are scoring well, ignore any concern over flex. It's more likely to mess with your brain than help/explain! A highly reputable fitter I recently talked stated that flex was probably the last attribute they determined when fitting!


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## MadAdey (Aug 4, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			If you are scoring well, ignore any concern over flex. It's more likely to mess with your brain than help/explain! A highly reputable fitter I recently talked stated that flex was probably the last attribute they determined when fitting!
		
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When I got fitted for my driver we found a shaft profile and loft that suited me first and played around with that. It was only at the end we looked at the difference between the X-stiff & Stiff shaft before deciding on the best one.


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## Ethan (Aug 4, 2014)

So Crossfield does an experiment where one of his highly skilled mates hits S and X flex, there isn't much difference so he concludes that flex doesn't matter. I look forward to the follow up where he gives a X100 to a 15 handicapper with 75mph 6 iron speed. I wonder if that will be any different from the players own club?

We have known for some time that good players have a greater capacity to deal with equipment. If you give Rory a set of Dunlop Jessie Valentines (ancient cheap ladies club) he will still knock it round in a decent number but if you give me Rory's X flex driver and PX 6.5 or 7 irons, I won't. 

In other videos Crossfield has said that the head design doesn't make much difference. Now the shaft makes much difference. I presume when you go into his shop he just tells you to pick the prettiest set because it doesn't really matter.


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## richy (Aug 4, 2014)

Ethan said:



			So Crossfield does an experiment where one of his highly skilled mates hits S and X flex, there isn't much difference so he concludes that flex doesn't matter. I look forward to the follow up where he gives a X100 to a 15 handicapper with 75mph 6 iron speed. I wonder if that will be any different from the players own club?

We have known for some time that good players have a greater capacity to deal with equipment. If you give Rory a set of Dunlop Jessie Valentines (ancient cheap ladies club) he will still knock it round in a decent number but if you give me Rory's X flex driver and PX 6.5 or 7 irons, I won't. 

In other videos Crossfield has said that the head design doesn't make much difference. Now the shaft makes much difference. I presume when you go into his shop he just tells you to pick the prettiest set because it doesn't really matter.
		
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Pretty sure he didn't say it doesn't matter but that people shouldn't get too hung up on it as much. He also said a proper fitter will look at shaft flex last and if you go to a custom fit and they only talk about shaft flex then don't waste any time there.


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## Foxholer (Aug 4, 2014)

richy said:



			Pretty sure he didn't say it doesn't matter but that people shouldn't get too hung up on it as much. He also said a proper fitter will look at shaft flex last and if you go to a custom fit and they only talk about shaft flex then don't waste any time there.
		
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Only watched the first vid. It reminded me why I can only take so much of him!

He does try to be a little controversial - which prompts responses.

He also took only a small sample of the swings (3) and examined them. As they were pretty similar, it 'proved' his main point that it's the quality of strike that is more important. 

Had he shown that one or the other flexes consistently produced better strikes, then I'd be more likely to believe what he was saying. Of course that wouldn't have supported his (unscientific) assertion that flex doesn't matter!


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## richy (Aug 4, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Only watched the first vid. It reminded me why I can only take so much of him!

He does try to be a little controversial - which prompts responses.

He also took only a small sample of the swings (3) and examined them. As they were pretty similar, it 'proved' his main point that it's the quality of strike that is more important. 

Had he shown that one or the other flexes consistently produced better strikes, then I'd be more likely to believe what he was saying. Of course that wouldn't have supported his (unscientific) assertion that flex doesn't matter!
		
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Again I'm pretty sure he didn't state that flex doesn't matter. 

The third video has both him and his friend hit 10 shots each and record the results. This was done with an X flex and A flex. Both said they preferred the FEEL of the X flex but the data was there in black and white to show they weren't to dissimilar


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## MadAdey (Aug 4, 2014)

richy said:



			Again I'm pretty sure he didn't state that flex doesn't matter. 

The third video has both him and his friend hit 10 shots each and record the results. This was done with an X flex and A flex. Both said they preferred the FEEL of the X flex but the data was there in black and white to show they weren't to dissimilar
		
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With you on that one, he does say about flex mattering. I think he is trying to point out that the correct shaft characteristics are more important like the weight, launch angle etc. I think he is bang on after getting fitted for my driver, as the Stiff and X-Stiff had very similar results. The only difference was the fitter said I looked more comfortable with the Stiff as I was trying to hit the X-stiff and the swing wasn't as smooth. So by taking the Stiff I will hit it better as I preferred the way it felt, even though the readings say I should have an X-stiff.


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## Ethan (Aug 4, 2014)

OK, I may watch it again, but whatever his conclusions, they can't generalise beyond the type of player he was testing. That bloke could handle both flexes, but not all players can handle the weight and or flex of some shafts.


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## CMAC (Aug 4, 2014)

I can hit ladies flex to X-100 flex (even tried some tour flex shafts), I can hit them all, however, its a real effort to hit the tour and x-100's, its real easy to hit the ladies but it went everywhere. I'm more comfortable with REG but stats say stiff, now its finding that stiff thats not boardy or that reg thats not too whippy and plays 'Firm'.

Its all in the feel for you at the end of the day


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## One Planer (Aug 4, 2014)

I'm low/mid 70's with a 6 iron which I recon outs me low to mid 80's with the driver(?).

I have a Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ in *stiff* in my driver and a regular flex stock Kai'li shaft in my fairway woods.

I doubt the regular flex, plays remotely to the same flex as the YSQ, yet I still hit both well enough. 

Completely wrong based on my swing speed.

Yet, I'm consistently longer with this shaft in my driver over the stock regular flex Kai'li I had previously. 

As I say, completely the wrong shaft based on swing speed alone, but it seems to suit me.

Perhaps there is something else in my swing that makes it suit.


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## Gopher (Aug 5, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, I'm currently using TM Burner stiff driver but my have my eye on an SLDR Mini 14 degree as the course I play isn't very long and I thought it would give me more control.  Any thoughts on the Mini are appreciated! 

I thought a shorter club would mean a change in flex but as has been said, a proper fitting is needed to find out.  Off to the local pro this week


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## Alex1975 (Aug 5, 2014)

Gopher said:



			Thanks for the replies, I'm currently using TM Burner stiff driver but my have my eye on an SLDR Mini 14 degree as the course I play isn't very long and I thought it would give me more control.  Any thoughts on the Mini are appreciated! 

I thought a shorter club would mean a change in flex but as has been said, a proper fitting is needed to find out.  Off to the local pro this week 

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A proper fitting or a good feel. The SLDR mini is an interesting concept but while you have a shorter shaft you also have a smaller head.


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## socky (Aug 5, 2014)

I think the point the Mark Crossfield was getting at and one that I personally agree with is... 

Shaft flex makes a very small difference, the numbers it adds or reduces to loft, spin and distance are small in comparison to the quality of strike. Hitting a driver off-center will make far more of an impact to these figures. 

So only those very skilled players should worry much about shaft flex in an attempt to fine tune their game. The rest of us should focus on hitting the middle of the clubface far more. 

He does say that the flex makes the shot/swing "feel" different, so you should play a flex that feels good to you. IMO so much of golf is in the mind that playing with a club that feels horrible when you swing it, can only make your game worse.


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## beck9965 (Aug 5, 2014)

Gareth said:



			I'm low/mid 70's with a 6 iron which I recon outs me low to mid 80's with the driver(?).

I have a Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ in *stiff* in my driver and a regular flex stock Kai'li shaft in my fairway woods.

I doubt the regular flex, plays remotely to the same flex as the YSQ, yet I still hit both well enough. 

Completely wrong based on my swing speed.

Yet, I'm consistently longer with this shaft in my driver over the stock regular flex Kai'li I had previously. 

As I say, completely the wrong shaft based on swing speed alone, but it seems to suit me.

Perhaps there is something else in my swing that makes it suit.
		
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My driver swing speed was 101mph last time I got fitted, after several shaft changes I ended up with a Graphite Design ys6 in a stiff and this was mainly due to the transition in my swing from top to downswing, I have smooth transition apparently so this was the shaft that suited my swing speed the Project X came a close second but the dispersion on the ys6 was better it also gave me an extra 40 yards, I also tried a softer shaft that turned out terrible, the fitting was with a Titleist technician at The Celtic Manor, I also trie the same shaft that Rory had in his driver at the time, a bit of fun the Titleist guy said, that wasn't too bad either.


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