# Staying connected



## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

I played at the weekend and my friend said my arms (mainly my left) is becoming really disconnected from my body through my swing. He suggested I put a towel or a glove under the left armpit and try and hit some shots with that, but every video I have seen talks about "staying connected" for nothing more than hitting an 8 or 9 iron down to chips.

Do I need to keep "connected" through the driver swing as well? Is there any merit in practicing with a driver whilst trying to keep the glove under the arm (until the end of the swing where you would expect it to drop)?


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## bobmac (Sep 29, 2015)

I'd say the glove is fine for half swings only


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

bobmac said:



			I'd say the glove is fine for half swings only
		
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In terms of a drill, or in terms of actually playing the shot? Are you suggesting "staying connected" for a full swing with a driver is pointless and counter intuitive?


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## bobmac (Sep 29, 2015)

Both.
Keeping the left arm close to the chest, especially on the longer clubs/swings can cause more problems than cure.
What problem are you trying to fix?


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

A crippling slice. It's destroying my game and becoming my "stock shot" rather than my bad one.

I thought about trying the "gate" or "head cover" drill, but I was told I'm not coming over the top so that may not be the issue / cause of the slice.

I didn't realise, but it seems my stance is often closed and shoulders are often open (which I am sure doesn't help matters) and it was suggested the disconnection from the left arm causes my hands to get stuck behind me, so are late in relation to my shoulders (meaning open face at impact) so the glove / towel drill was suggested to improve my timing and turn through impact.


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

[video=youtube;EpFEmm4VOW8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpFEmm4VOW8&amp;[/video]


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## Craigg (Sep 29, 2015)

Im certainly no expert, but looks a little shallow to me.


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## bobmac (Sep 29, 2015)

It looks as if the ball starts right of the target. Is that normal?


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

bobmac said:



			It looks as if the ball starts right of the target. Is that normal?
		
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It's probably the camera angle, but it will mainly go slightly left and then hard right. Occasionally it is more of a fade shape, i.e. straight then fading off to the right. When I get it right weirdly it's actually more of a draw shape.


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## bobmac (Sep 29, 2015)

There's a couple of things going on there which aren't quite text book but what you need to do is improve the relationship between the swingpath and clubface at impact.
Try and keep your shoulders pointing at the target at impact, not left


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

bobmac said:



			There's a couple of things going on there which aren't quite text book but what you need to do is improve the relationship between the swingpath and clubface at impact.
Try and keep your shoulders pointing at the target at impact, not left
		
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Yeah, my shoulders do get ahead of my hands, which is why I think my mate suggested the glove/towel drill to keep everything together and connected and prevent the need to get my hands catching up with my shoulders.


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## bobmac (Sep 29, 2015)

The problem is if your hands catch up with your shoulders and they are pointing left, you'll slice/pull all day.
Get those shoulders straighter at impact and you will hit it straighter.
Start off with half power and half swings until you get the feel of it. 
If you incorporate a little weight shift towards your left side through impact that will help also


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

bobmac said:



			The problem is if your hands catch up with your shoulders and they are pointing left, you'll slice/pull all day.
Get those shoulders straighter at impact and you will hit it straighter.
Start off with half power and half swings until you get the feel of it. 
If you incorporate a little weight shift towards your left side through impact that will help also
		
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Hear what you are saying. Weight shift through impact is a tough one (for me at least) as I know it is needed, but I guess it is subtle because whenever I consciously think about shifting my weight then I proper duff/chunk/top whatever, but that's probably more caused by me shifting off the lateral plane with my head. Just stopping the slice is what's needed for me currently because it is totally ruining my game. I can't even take an iron or a hybrid off the tee because I get the exact same result.


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## bobmac (Sep 29, 2015)

I can't even take an iron or a hybrid off the tee because I get the exact same result.
		
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If you dont want the exact same result, you must change something.

:thup:


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## Three (Sep 29, 2015)

Look at the impact. 
Your hips have barely turned but your shoulders are way left. 

For starters, personally I would get you to set up with your left foot way back from the right foot, ie very open stance with the legs and hips, with shoulders aligned right of target. 
Hit some shots at 30% power like this, maybe feel like  it's only an arm swing,  and I'd expect to see a better impact position and ball flight.


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

Three said:



View attachment 16979


Look at the impact. 
Your hips have barely turned but your shoulders are way left. 

For starters, personally I would get you to set up with your left foot way back from the right foot, ie very open stance with the legs and hips, with shoulders aligned right of target. 
Hit some shots at 30% power like this, maybe feel like  it's only an arm swing,  and I'd expect to see a better impact position and ball flight.
		
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What would be the progression after that?


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## Three (Sep 29, 2015)

woody69 said:



			What would be the progression after that?
		
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About 8 shots lower each round 

No seriously, through impact,   if your hips and shoulders alignment was swapped from what it is in the pic above , that would be an improvement. 

So if my suggested drill got your club on more of an in-square-in path, then it would be a simple case of seeing if you could maintain that awareness of where your hips and shoulders are through impact at faster /full swing speeds.


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## woody69 (Sep 29, 2015)

Three said:



			About 8 shots lower each round 

No seriously, through impact,   if your hips and shoulders alignment was swapped from what it is in the pic above , that would be an improvement. 

So if my suggested drill got your club on more of an in-square-in path, then it would be a simple case of seeing if you could maintain that awareness of where your hips and shoulders are through impact at faster /full swing speeds.
		
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If I can stop my slice, I'd probably save about 18 shots!

So just to get it right in my head, you're suggesting set up square, but then move my left foot back say half a foot width? More? To open my stance, and then align shoulders right of target line, then swing and at impact my shoulders should almost align with my feet?


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## Spuddy (Sep 30, 2015)

woody69 said:



			If I can stop my slice, I'd probably save about 18 shots!

So just to get it right in my head, you're suggesting set up square, but then move my left foot back say half a foot width? More? To open my stance, and then align shoulders right of target line, then swing and at impact my shoulders should almost align with my feet?
		
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This drill is effectively pre-setting where your hips should be at impact.  They should have rotated left of target with your shoulders lagging behind.  At the moment your hips stop turning and are overtaken by your arms and shoulders.


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## Three (Sep 30, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			This drill is effectively pre-setting where your hips should be at impact.  They should have rotated left of target with your shoulders lagging behind.  At the moment your hips stop turning and are overtaken by your arms and shoulders.
		
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Exactly.


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## Three (Sep 30, 2015)

Screenshot of KJ before impact. 

If you can get somewhere near this it would be better.


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## woody69 (Oct 2, 2015)

Went down the range today to try your drill Three and I was still slicing it. Perhaps I still wasn't getting my shoulders square enough.

Thought of something else to try though as explained in a Mark Crossfield video I watched today.

It makes a lot of sense and explains what my pro was trying to get me to do at my last lesson when he said try to "throw" the club back on my downswing, essentially getting me to try and straighten my left wrist


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## the_coach (Oct 3, 2015)

may just be the one swing you posted or maybes an overall tendency but  shoulders maybes already set a little ways 'open' at address

from  that tee box it's a little difficult to see what the 'line' is down  that hole but even allowing for parallax you look to be set-up looking  down rightfield (feet hips) edge of the fairway? with shoulder line a tad leftfield

it's  true that a swing motion has to be 'connected' motion in sync but it  has to be connected whilst still being able to maintain a good natural  'width' - distance the butt end of a handle is to the center chest,  sternum

if you go on your youtube swing page go into settings &  choose speed 0.25 you can easier play & pause the motion have a look at  takeback when the shaft is first parallel to the ground check the lead  arm it's starting to give in at the elbow (ideally you want it  comfortably 'straight' not rigid but not starting to bend any)

likely   reason for this is you been looking for that 'connection' (well meaning   PP advice) but it's being a tad more of a hindrance here - real  annoyingly  golf is a 'goldilocks' game so just enough of something but not too much  at the expense of something else that's real important, in this case -  width -  although don't want the arms flying either a ways outwards & upwards  neither drawn hardback across the chest any so club behind the legs -  but it's  equally real important that the arms aren't being held tucked back into  the  body any in the backswing as the distance between the elbows also tends  to widen some looking to keep the elbows that good relaxed same distance  they were at address during that first part of the takeback

to have good 'connected width' the left upper arm is looking to stay more just 'lightly  connected' to the 'pec' side wall but with the left arm 'relaxed straight' so that allows  the right elbow when the shaft is parallel to toe line & horizontal  to the ground to be a couple inches away from the right side - so not  tucked right in up close 
as if it is you get atop the swing with the  right upper arm & elbow being a ways tight against the side which  also puts the left arm plane a ways under the shoulder plane
leads to it all tending to get real cramped up at the top with the width that started at address being lost

any  good swing needs a 'model' that has natural connected width going back  atop, then the weight pressure moves left first at transition & so  the downswing is naturally narrowed some - as the motion works in sync  from the leadside up bit like a reverse spiral it's how the angles, the  levers can be kept into strike how you get speed through the ball
already narrow atop this then can't happen by product of it is it then leaves too much weight on the trail leg

tends  also to lead to losing the spine angle some atop the swing as folks more  have to straighten up spine angle some, along with the right leg over-straightening  some

from an upper body/arms too 'tucked in top position' the arms  shoulders just start back first, weight doesn't get into the leadside to  start the motion & then hips chest arms all work back together the  weight staying bunched ways too much on the trailside through strike (so pretty  flat right foot) then arms & club tend to have to work  independently through the strike & swing direction through impact to leftfield

as  you take the club back try to look to keep the distance from the butt end of  the club at set-up the same until the hands/wrist 'set' upwards, then  look to keep the hands that similar distance infront of the chest &  allow the right arm to fold (elbow down to ground) but not being overly  'heldback' into the rightside - look to see if you can get a decent 90Âº  right angle at the right elbow at the top with the shaft being more over top of the tip of the right shoulder

from  the top see if you can then feel the weight just bump some into the  left leg  as your back stays looking to target a fraction, then swing down left  hip rotates & truns out of the ways & upper body/chest turns  through, right knee working to left knee, right foot up on toes, part of  the balanced finish the shaft is angled more across the nape of the  neck pointed back over the ball/target line not vertically 'down' the  back clubhead down to the ground


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## woody69 (Oct 5, 2015)

the_coach said:



			may just be the one swing you posted or maybes an overall tendency but  shoulders maybes already set a little ways 'open' at address

from  that tee box it's a little difficult to see what the 'line' is down  that hole but even allowing for parallax you look to be set-up looking  down rightfield (feet hips) edge of the fairway? with shoulder line a tad leftfield

it's  true that a swing motion has to be 'connected' motion in sync but it  has to be connected whilst still being able to maintain a good natural  'width' - distance the butt end of a handle is to the center chest,  sternum

if you go on your youtube swing page go into settings &  choose speed 0.25 you can easier play & pause the motion have a look at  takeback when the shaft is first parallel to the ground check the lead  arm it's starting to give in at the elbow (ideally you want it  comfortably 'straight' not rigid but not starting to bend any)

likely   reason for this is you been looking for that 'connection' (well meaning   PP advice) but it's being a tad more of a hindrance here - real  annoyingly  golf is a 'goldilocks' game so just enough of something but not too much  at the expense of something else that's real important, in this case -  width -  although don't want the arms flying either a ways outwards & upwards  neither drawn hardback across the chest any so club behind the legs -  but it's  equally real important that the arms aren't being held tucked back into  the  body any in the backswing as the distance between the elbows also tends  to widen some looking to keep the elbows that good relaxed same distance  they were at address during that first part of the takeback

to have good 'connected width' the left upper arm is looking to stay more just 'lightly  connected' to the 'pec' side wall but with the left arm 'relaxed straight' so that allows  the right elbow when the shaft is parallel to toe line & horizontal  to the ground to be a couple inches away from the right side - so not  tucked right in up close 
as if it is you get atop the swing with the  right upper arm & elbow being a ways tight against the side which  also puts the left arm plane a ways under the shoulder plane
leads to it all tending to get real cramped up at the top with the width that started at address being lost

any  good swing needs a 'model' that has natural connected width going back  atop, then the weight pressure moves left first at transition & so  the downswing is naturally narrowed some - as the motion works in sync  from the leadside up bit like a reverse spiral it's how the angles, the  levers can be kept into strike how you get speed through the ball
already narrow atop this then can't happen by product of it is it then leaves too much weight on the trail leg

tends  also to lead to losing the spine angle some atop the swing as folks more  have to straighten up spine angle some, along with the right leg over-straightening  some

from an upper body/arms too 'tucked in top position' the arms  shoulders just start back first, weight doesn't get into the leadside to  start the motion & then hips chest arms all work back together the  weight staying bunched ways too much on the trailside through strike (so pretty  flat right foot) then arms & club tend to have to work  independently through the strike & swing direction through impact to leftfield

as  you take the club back try to look to keep the distance from the butt end of  the club at set-up the same until the hands/wrist 'set' upwards, then  look to keep the hands that similar distance infront of the chest &  allow the right arm to fold (elbow down to ground) but not being overly  'heldback' into the rightside - look to see if you can get a decent 90Âº  right angle at the right elbow at the top with the shaft being more over top of the tip of the right shoulder

from  the top see if you can then feel the weight just bump some into the  left leg  as your back stays looking to target a fraction, then swing down left  hip rotates & truns out of the ways & upper body/chest turns  through, right knee working to left knee, right foot up on toes, part of  the balanced finish the shaft is angled more across the nape of the  neck pointed back over the ball/target line not vertically 'down' the  back clubhead down to the ground
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the time taken to write this response coach. It is appreciated. 

Played on Sunday with the tip I picked up in the Mark Crossfield video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3YN_o7ultw) explaining club path and how the face relates to that path and a fix further reiterated in a Me and My Golf Video about "rolling the wrists on the downswing" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnT_fZ6WcEo) really sorted me out. I was hitting it straight with even a draw at times. Sliced it maybe 2 times in total and knew immediately the cause. Felt so happy coming off the course knowing I have finally got that monkey off my back. 

Now I need to work on everything else....


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