# R&A - Good Deal or Greedy



## Old Skier (Jan 31, 2015)

The R&A seem to be about to announce that the Open will be going to Sky after 2015. At a time that England Golf and County organisations are working on projects to encourage more into the game is this a sensible move or is it a decision based on lining the pockets of the few.


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## Crow (Jan 31, 2015)

They say that they're trying to make the game more inclusive but this would make it more exclusive.

Short termist, I say this - "Boooooo"


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2015)

I wonder how many people don't have Sky?


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## bluewolf (Jan 31, 2015)

I don't have Sky Sports, so I won't be watching The Open. Nor will my kids. How are kids supposed to get interested in Golf if they never see the game or its top players?


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## Crow (Jan 31, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			I wonder how many people don't have Sky?
		
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Let's create a poll!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

It's because of the money - they have just reduced the viewing figures of the Open and also reduced the hours it will be on 

No golf now on "normal" telly


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## Old Skier (Jan 31, 2015)

Here is a breakdown of how the money is spent.
http://www.randa.org/en/Working-For-Golf/Golf-Development/Role-of-the-R-and-A.aspx
However this is not a true reflection really as they will not support any grants for clubs who do not have a resident pro and why are they supplying grants to pro's?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's because of the money - they have just reduced the viewing figures of the Open and also reduced the hours it will be on 

No golf now on "normal" telly
		
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]

Reduced the hours it will be on? I haven't seen the details, but I thought SKy were normally really good at broadcasting loads of actual golf?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			]

Reduced the hours it will be on? I haven't seen the details, but I thought SKy were normally really good at broadcasting loads of actual golf?
		
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Not from my experience of watching golf with them


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## BTatHome (Jan 31, 2015)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Reduced the hours it will be on? I haven't seen the details, but I thought SKy were normally really good at broadcasting loads of actual golf?
		
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They'll probably swop it to be Sky Golf channel again and run stuff for a whole month beforehand. Rerun after rerun to ensure everyone knows the Open is coming soon.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

BTatHome said:



			They'll probably swop it to be Sky Golf channel again and run stuff for a whole month beforehand. Rerun after rerun to ensure everyone knows the Open is coming soon.
		
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And over the 4 days they will have lots of adverts plus studio talk and the only action will be players putting out - then they will switch the the shot centre and then Holmes will suck the life out of people - all at the same time as actual golf is going on


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

This will be a sad day for golf in this country. The beeb coverage is not everyone's cup of tea but the wider implications for the sport in this country have to be considered rather than simply chasing the most money. Look at how cricket has been affected by it being exclusively on Sky.


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## Imurg (Jan 31, 2015)

There will be an increase in the number of dubious online streams and feeds doing the rounds...
I'll be looking out for one, that's for sure.
Actual legitimate viewing figures will slump.


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## bluewolf (Jan 31, 2015)

There are a now large number of people to whom Golf will not even exist. Newspaper coverage is almost non-existent. Terrestrial TV coverage will now be non-existant. A sad day for Golf really


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

Every year around Wimbledon you see kids everywhere suddenly playing tennis

The Olympics increased participation in sport all over the country 

When cricket used to be on you used to see kids all over playing cricket in the parks 

When the Open came on suddenly the driving ranges would be full , the pay and play courses would be booked out 

Non golfers would pick up a club after seeing it on telly 

Now it will move to sky the only people that will watch it will be golfers 

People won't be able to just switch over and watch it for ten mins and then get hooked on it 

Golf going to Sky puts extra funds into the coffers - it imo won't attract new golfers and will reduce the viewing figures 

The R&A have a responsibility to the integrity and growth of the game - they are just about to fail on both parts


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every year around Wimbledon you see kids everywhere suddenly playing tennis

The Olympics increased participation in sport all over the country 

When cricket used to be on you used to see kids all over playing cricket in the parks 

When the Open came on suddenly the driving ranges would be full , the pay and play courses would be booked out 

Non golfers would pick up a club after seeing it on telly 

Now it will move to sky the only people that will watch it will be golfers 

People won't be able to just switch over and watch it for ten mins and then get hooked on it 

Golf going to Sky puts extra funds into the coffers - it imo won't attract new golfers and will reduce the viewing figures 

The R&A have a responsibility to the integrity and growth of the game - they are just about to fail on both parts
		
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Indeed. But these simple consequences seem to be lost on the mandarins in charge who seem more interested in chasing the bucks to pay the top players that little bit more.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 31, 2015)

The head of the RFU was on the radio on Thursday and covered this very issue relating to rugby. His response was that they have to balance wide coverage with bringing in money. That money is then ploughed back into the sport. Less money equals less grants to clubs, coaching etc. Not a simple,  cut and dried decision.


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## Old Skier (Jan 31, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The head of the RFU was on the radio on Thursday and covered this very issue relating to rugby. His response was that they have to balance wide coverage with bringing in money. That money is then ploughed back into the sport. Less money equals less grants to clubs, coaching etc. Not a simple,  cut and dried decision.
		
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No grants come our way - no pro - although we pay the same affiliation fees as everyone else.


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## garyinderry (Jan 31, 2015)

I have been in England for a few years now and I haven't seen one set of kids playing a friendly game of cricket.  No wonder you lot are crap at it.  :rofl:


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## bozza (Jan 31, 2015)

If the BBC really wanted to keep the golf they could have. 

They have been told by the R&A on more than one occasion that of they don't improve there coverage of it and get more up to date then they risk loosing it. 

They didn't and they decided Premierehip football was the main priority for them and lumped a load of money into the right to show the highlights and gave Linekar a bumper new contract.

I know Sky's coverage isn't always perfect but that's sometimes mainly due to the American host broadcaster. I think the do a good job of covering Wentworth, less adverts than normal and a lot more informative than when the BBC did it. 

Sky don't do things half arsed, look at what they did for the Premiership, it's the biggest and probably the most watched league around the world. I think it can only be a good thing for golf in my eyes. 

Times change and people need to move on, the BBC has there chance and did a fine job but they were stuck in the past and need to freshen things up like a lot of golf clubs have had to do to keep and try get more members. 

Also what's not to like getting to see and hear Monty talk about himself and how he won the Ryder Cup........


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 31, 2015)

Look at the Ryder Cup. Wall to wall coverage on a dedicated channel so loads of discussion, views, build up, coverage reviews and highlights. In terms of the RC there wasn't a shot missed all day and I see no reason why they wouldn't emulate BBC coverage and start early morning and run into the evening in the first two rounds


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## Imurg (Jan 31, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Look at the Ryder Cup. Wall to wall coverage on a dedicated channel so loads of discussion, views, build up, coverage reviews and highlights. In terms of the RC there wasn't a shot missed all day and I see no reason why they wouldn't emulate BBC coverage and start early morning and run into the evening in the first two rounds
		
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And they will....
But the vast majority of people won't be able to see it.
The kid down the street won't come home, switch on the box and see Rory launching a 350 harder, won't be enthralled by it and subsequently won't take up the game.


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## Old Skier (Jan 31, 2015)

bozza said:



			If the BBC really wanted to keep the golf they could have.
		
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Providing they paid a lot more for it.


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## matt611 (Jan 31, 2015)

Just continues my belief that there is far too much money in professional sports


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## Old Skier (Jan 31, 2015)

matt611 said:



			Just continues my belief that there is far too much money in professional sports
		
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And nothing to do with the genuine sports fan whatever the sport is.


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## bozza (Jan 31, 2015)

Imurg said:



			And they will....
But the vast majority of people won't be able to see it.
The kid down the street won't come home, switch on the box and see Rory launching a 350 harder, won't be enthralled by it and subsequently won't take up the game.
		
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But what young kid wants to listen to Peter Alliss waffle on about the good old days when he used to knock his balata ball around a course in his tweed plus fours. 

Golf needs to drag itself out of the dark ages and I think Sky are helping do that with the coverage they do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

bozza said:



			But what young kid wants to listen to Peter Alliss waffle on about the good old days when he used to knock his balata ball around a course in his tweed plus fours. 

Golf needs to drag itself out of the dark ages and I think Sky are helping do that with the coverage they do.
		
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So instead of listening to Allis which is a very small part of the coverage they now watch none of it 

Golf going to sky doesn't "drag" it out of the dark ages - it's not in the dark ages to begin with 

The only thing sky will do different is things like shot centre etc etc - that does nothing to the game of golf


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## Imurg (Jan 31, 2015)

bozza said:



			But what young kid wants to listen to Peter Alliss waffle on about the good old days when he used to knock his balata ball around a course in his tweed plus fours. 

Golf needs to drag itself out of the dark ages and I think Sky are helping do that with the coverage they do.
		
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Is that the same kid from up the street.? The one who now won't show any interest in golf because the only time he sees it is on the news when Tiger shoots 82 again...?
Sky can drag golf into the 22nd century if it wants to, its just that not many people will see it.....so what's the point.?


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## mefromhere (Jan 31, 2015)

It would have made far more sense for Sky & BBC to share the coverage for a period. Then the R&A could assess and see the viewing difference between the two channels and the impact it would have on the game. Instead they went forthe quick money which they can say they will put into the grassroots of the game but if there's no roots (kids playing) then what's the point ?


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## blackpuddinmonster (Jan 31, 2015)




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## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2015)

Why, why, why,
im sure the coverage will be better than on BBC (like F1) but to a limited audience. And how long before you get charged to watch the open on Sky.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Maybe I lived in a strange household. But in the summer when I came home from schoo the last thing I wanted to do was put the tv on. I went out and played sports. I've had sky as long as I can rememember. But didn't play a sport just because it was on tv. The people that play tennis around Wimbledon, or golf around the open, how many stick around?

Everywhere we look there are adds for fitness this, or diet that. I think people are becoming lazier, you could play sports live throughout the day at some schools and the kids would still just go home and veg out on the Xbox. 

to blame sky for the Demise of sports is imo false. If I could think of one factor it would be computers. But even then the games are branded with players and the people who buy them want to play as their favourite clubs/players (who they've likely seen on tv). 

Golf can be quite an exclusive club. I'm not against that. But, I'd imagine most people that can afford to play golf regularly can afford sky too. So if you're a parent and honestly think the only reason your child won't pick the game up is because they won't see it, get sky? Or stream it and show them. Or better still, take them along with you. 

I dont undertand why it's always someone else's fault?


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## bozza (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe I lived in a strange household. But in the summer when I came home from schoo the last thing I wanted to do was put the tv on. I went out and played sports. I've had sky as long as I can rememember. But didn't play a sport just because it was on tv. The people that play tennis around Wimbledon, or golf around the open, how many stick around?

Everywhere we look there are adds for fitness this, or diet that. I think people are becoming lazier, you could play sports live throughout the day at some schools and the kids would still just go home and veg out on the Xbox. 

to blame sky for the Demise of sports is imo false. If I could think of one factor it would be computers. But even then the games are branded with players and the people who buy them want to play as their favourite clubs/players (who they've likely seen on tv). 

Golf can be quite an exclusive club. I'm not against that. But, I'd imagine most people that can afford to play golf regularly can afford sky too. So if you're a parent and honestly think the only reason your child won't pick the game up is because they won't see it, get sky? Or stream it and show them. Or better still, take them along with you. 

I dont undertand why it's always someone else's fault?
		
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Well said. 

You just know if golf club memberships fall over the next 5-10 years it will all be Sky's fault for stealing the Open from the BBC.


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## bozza (Jan 31, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Is that the same kid from up the street.? The one who now won't show any interest in golf because the only time he sees it is on the news when Tiger shoots 82 again...?
Sky can drag golf into the 22nd century if it wants to, its just that not many people will see it.....so what's the point.?
		
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Is that the same kid that Supports Man Utd and gets his parents to buy the latest strip/boots because his hero Rooney wears them? 

Majority of football is on Sky but that's doesn't stop millions of kids playing the game and spending money on shirts etc.


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## Tommo21 (Jan 31, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Providing they paid a lot more for it.
		
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Get rid of that waste of money Top Gear, a programme for three grown men who get paid lots of money to go out and play. 

This is about the BBC attitude, old ideas, no adverts. Meanwhile, all other networks move forward we still pay for the BBC even if you don't watch it. The BBC will never move forward, like the R&A and Muirfield...it's my way or no way.


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## Imurg (Jan 31, 2015)

bozza said:



			Is that the same kid that Supports Man Utd and gets his parents to buy the latest strip/boots because his hero Rooney wears them? 

Majority of football is on Sky but that's doesn't stop millions of kids playing the game and spending money on shirts etc.
		
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Majority - yes
Vast majority? - no.
BBC still has MOTD and plenty of other football matches. You can still see plenty of Rooney, Costa and the rest if you don't have Sky.

How much golf will the Beeb show now?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Majority - yes
Vast majority? - no.
BBC still has MOTD and plenty of other football matches. You can still see plenty of Rooney, Costa and the rest if you don't have Sky.

How much golf will the Beeb show now?
		
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These kids that can't watch it now, will probably be the ones to talk to if you need a link to stream it.......


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe I lived in a strange household. But in the summer when I came home from schoo the last thing I wanted to do was put the tv on. I went out and played sports. I've had sky as long as I can rememember. But didn't play a sport just because it was on tv. The people that play tennis around Wimbledon, or golf around the open, how many stick around?

Everywhere we look there are adds for fitness this, or diet that. I think people are becoming lazier, you could play sports live throughout the day at some schools and the kids would still just go home and veg out on the Xbox. 

to blame sky for the Demise of sports is imo false. If I could think of one factor it would be computers. But even then the games are branded with players and the people who buy them want to play as their favourite clubs/players (who they've likely seen on tv). 

Golf can be quite an exclusive club. I'm not against that. But, I'd imagine most people that can afford to play golf regularly can afford sky too. So if you're a parent and honestly think the only reason your child won't pick the game up is because they won't see it, get sky? Or stream it and show them. Or better still, take them along with you. 

I dont undertand why it's always someone else's fault?
		
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I can remember summer after summer of watching cricket on the beeb, watching England play badly at times but also watching some great players from abroad and then going out and playing in the alley next to our house with my brother. The stance i take now at the crease was based on a Windies player called Jimmy Adams who i watched and thought was rather cool the way he stood at the crease. Then as i got older i watched golf on the beeb and thought: i quite like that, i'll give it a go. I'm 35 now and still play both sports. 

Yeah, exposure on the tv had nothing to do with it.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

bozza said:



			Is that the same kid that Supports Man Utd and gets his parents to buy the latest strip/boots because his hero Rooney wears them? 

Majority of football is on Sky but that's doesn't stop millions of kids playing the game and spending money on shirts etc.
		
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Highlights on the beeb, FA Cup on peasant tv, internationals on peasant tv plus wall to wall saturation in the mass media and plenty of people likely telling their kids how great the sport is. There's plenty of exposure to the mass public. Every other sport going must now battle with the monolith that is Football.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			I can remember summer after summer of watching cricket on the beeb, watching England play badly at times but also watching some great players from abroad and then going out and playing in the alley next to our house with my brother. The stance i take now at the crease was based on a Windies player called Jimmy Adams who i watched and thought was rather cool the way he stood at the crease. Then as i got older i watched golf on the beeb and thought: i quite like that, i'll give it a go. I'm 35 now and still play both sports. 

Yeah, exposure on the tv had nothing to do with it.
		
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when I was a kid I used to try and replicate Owens goal against Argentina in 98. I watched that goal as a kid in a villa in Florida whilst my family were at Disneyland. Point being, if you want to watch sport it's not hard to find. 

Also, when you (we) we kids sky was maybe more exlusive. How many people are watching premier league feeds atm?

how many kids idolise messi? I presume they only see him on the Beeb?


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			when I was a kid I used to try and replicate Owens goal against Argentina in 98. I watched that goal as a kid in a villa in Florida whilst my family were at Disneyland. Point being, if you want to watch sport it's not hard to find. 

Also, when you (we) we kids sky was maybe more exlusive. How many people are watching premier league feeds atm?
		
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Football will always have no problem getting mass support though. It gets the most media coverage by a mile, is talked about anywhere and everywhere and has the beeb paying 200 million quid just for highlights! Its no wonder kids get into it, especially if their parents and grandparents are into the game. Every other sport trails in its wake and has to fight to attract the next generation. Football has shown that it can survive with the majority of coverage on satellite tv, other sports cannot be so blase because there isnt the same mass coverage.

Yes, anyone can go and look for a sport but i didnt go looking for golf when i got into it at 18, i flicked on the tv and watched some of it and found i enjoyed it. Sometimes people take up sports after a moment of serendipity, rather than thinking "right, lets see if i can find some golf."


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Football will always have no problem getting mass support though. It gets the most media coverage by a mile, is talked about anywhere and everywhere and has the beeb paying 200 million quid just for highlights! Its no wonder kids get into it, especially if their parents and grandparents are into the game. Every other sport trails in its wake and has to fight to attract the next generation. Football has shown that it can survive with the majority of coverage on satellite tv, other sports cannot be so blase because there isnt the same mass coverage.
		
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genuine question, did you were watching cricket or golf as a lad on the tv. Did you not watch with your dad? Maybe old fashioned but I was like his shadow when I got the chance. What he liked I liked as a kid. 

Id like to think my kids will Love sports too, albeit I've been told football is for smelly boys and only crazy golf is fun. Even though my girls have pretty pink putters. 

My my point is that, participation shouldn't imo be reliant on mass exposure. You had a moment of serendipity which is rather romantic, but everyone is telling us participation is dropping. Well unless we want the beeb to show more golf (not gonna happen). Who's to blame for that? 

Maybe that's wrong. But as much as I love watching sport and always have, playing it has always come first. And that's coz my folks got me I to many sports. I may not be great at many lol. But I'll be the same, trying to get my girls into it. Not asking what's popular and easily available on the beeb. 

Back  to the op. I've not looked, does anyone have the financial figures. It's all well and good expecting the r&a to take a morale stance, but they are a business after all. The beeb are meant to be a public service. So maybe sky aren't the bad guys, maybe the Beeb are. If we go along with the that sport can be aspirational and is a good thing for wellbeing, what exactly does easterners bring? Other than viewing figures?


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## Jungle (Jan 31, 2015)

Just look at Darts and the last ten years of both the PDC and BDO.

One is available to all and one is exclusive to some. I know which one I would want to be a part of.

The single biggest hinderance to golf participation is that view that it is played by rich old men. Sky don't do half measures, so the Open will get the full hog, their Sports news channel, twitter accounts and analysts will get people talking and hopefully first timers trying it for themselves.

It also provides a big injection of cash into British golf.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



*genuine question, did you were watching cricket or golf as a lad on the tv. Did you not watch with your dad? Maybe old fashioned but I was like his shadow when I got the chance. What he liked I liked as a kid.* 

Id like to think my kids will Love sports too, albeit I've been told football is for smelly boys and only crazy golf is fun. Even though my girls have pretty pink putters. 

My my point is that, participation shouldn't imo be reliant on mass exposure. You had a moment of serendipity which is rather romantic, but everyone is telling us participation is dropping. Well unless we want the beeb to show more golf (not gonna happen). Who's to blame for that? 

Maybe that's wrong. But as much as I love watching sport and always have, playing it has always come first. And that's coz my folks got me I to many sports. I may not be great at many lol. But I'll be the same, trying to get my girls into it. Not asking what's popular and easily available on the beeb. 

Back  to the op. I've not looked, does anyone have the financial figures. It's all well and good expecting the r&a to take a morale stance, but they are a business after all. The beeb are meant to be a public service. So maybe sky aren't the bad guys, maybe the Beeb are. If we go along with the that sport can be aspirational and is a good thing for wellbeing, what exactly does easterners bring? Other than viewing figures?
		
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Nope, my old man liked / likes Football, Darts and Snooker. He only took up golf about 5 years after i started playing. 

You're right, participation shouldnt be reliant on mass exposure and there are a number of reasons why participation in golf is dropping. But no exposure on terrestrial tv isnt going to help. 

As for the beeb and the R&A, well the latter has to balance simply making money with promoting the game. They are there for the game as a whole, not just the top professionals. I dunno about the beeb, they seem to have lost their way on a number of things.


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## bozza (Jan 31, 2015)

Over the last 10-15 years the sports Sky has invested in football/darts/rugby/golf etc do you think they have ruined them sports or the coverage of it? 

Nope it hasn't, it's improved them all. 

Give it 5-10 years and I bet the majority of people will have forgot about the BBC's Stone Age coverage of the golf and will enjoy Sky's coverage.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Nope, my old man liked / likes Football, Darts and Snooker. He only took up golf about 5 years after i started playing. 

You're right, participation shouldnt be reliant on mass exposure and there are a number of reasons why participation in golf is dropping. But no exposure on terrestrial tv isnt going to help. 

As for the beeb and the R&A, well the latter has to balance simply making money with promoting the game. They are there for the game as a whole, not just the top professionals. I dunno about the beeb, they seem to have lost their way on a number of things.
		
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Just wanna point out, wasn't trying to suggest their was a right or wrong way of parenting. Crossed my mind that may have come across. 

As as to the Beeb, unfortunately I think they're the same as all corporations these days. Finances are the only driving force these days.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

bozza said:



			Over the last 10-15 years the sports Sky has invested in football/darts/rugby/golf etc do you think they have ruined them sports or the coverage of it? 

Nope it hasn't, it's improved them all. 

Give it 5-10 years and I bet the majority of people will have forgot about the BBC's Stone Age coverage of the golf and will enjoy Sky's coverage.
		
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I never said that Sky's coverage was worse. But I didnt get into cricket and golf cos of the quality / lack of quality of the coverage, i got into the sports cos i was able to watch them.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



*Just wanna point out, wasn't trying to suggest their was a right or wrong way of parenting. Crossed my mind that may have come across*. 

As as to the Beeb, unfortunately I think they're the same as all corporations these days. Finances are the only driving force these days.
		
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Nah, i didnt read that at all! In many ways what you were saying was right, many kids will follow what their parents do.


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## pogle (Jan 31, 2015)

Imurg said:



			And they will....
But the vast majority of people won't be able to see it.
The kid down the street won't come home, switch on the box and see Rory launching a *350 harder*, won't be enthralled by it and subsequently won't take up the game.
		
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!!!


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## teetime75 (Jan 31, 2015)

Jungle said:



			Just look at Darts and the last ten years of both the PDC and BDO.

One is available to all and one is exclusive to some. I know which one I would want to be a part of.

The single biggest hinderance to golf participation is that view that it is played by rich old men. Sky don't do half measures, so the Open will get the full hog, their Sports news channel, twitter accounts and analysts will get people talking and hopefully first timers trying it for themselves.

It also provides a big injection of cash into British golf.
		
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If there`s one thing puts me off tv sport it`s analysts.
Be it footy golf snooker or darts,I employ the mute I don`t need anyone to tell me what i`ve
just seen,

I`ve got a brain and can analyse my own game as it progresses.
I do not need Steve Davis to tell me such a body should not have missed that easy red.
Get rid.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Jungle said:



			Just look at Darts and the last ten years of both the PDC and BDO.

One is available to all and one is exclusive to some. I know which one I would want to be a part of.

The single biggest hinderance to golf participation is that view that it is played by rich old men. Sky don't do half measures, so the Open will get the full hog, their Sports news channel, twitter accounts and analysts will get people talking and hopefully first timers trying it for themselves.

It also provides a big injection of cash into British golf.
		
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Yeah, but look at the viewing figures for the two finals. The PDC is the far superior organisation but Sky wont get much more than a million watching the final. The BDO is pretty average in terms of the quality on show but the final still has, on average, attracted between 3 & 4 million viewers each year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

bozza said:



			Over the last 10-15 years the sports Sky has invested in football/darts/rugby/golf etc do you think they have ruined them sports or the coverage of it? 

Nope it hasn't, it's improved them all. 

Give it 5-10 years and I bet the majority of people will have forgot about the BBC's Stone Age coverage of the golf and will enjoy Sky's coverage.
		
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The sport hasn't changed since Sky started showing golf - not one single bit has changed that can be attributed to Sky

Less people now watch the sport because of the lack of golf on terrestrial telly - when I was growing up there were a great deal number events on telly - not now 

Sky hasn't improved all sports - it's just made some sports more money focused 

When the BBC show the Open they show more golf shots within that 4 day period that Sky do all year round - ten hours uninterrupted coverage with no adverts , no shot centre and available to the whole of the country


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The sport hasn't changed since Sky started showing golf - not one single bit has changed that can be attributed to Sky

Less people now watch the sport because of the lack of golf on terrestrial telly - when I was growing up there were a great deal number events on telly - not now 

Sky hasn't improved all sports - it's just made some sports more money focused 

When the BBC show the Open they show more golf shots within that 4 day period that Sky do all year round - ten hours uninterrupted coverage with no adverts , no shot centre and available to the whole of the country
		
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The Beeb is a business. Supply and demand. Not enough people want golf so they don't show it. Who showed the better coverage of the solheim cup?


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## Tashyboy (Jan 31, 2015)

I would never say one way or another that sky improves or makes a sport worse.
But what I will say is that putting it on sky and sky alone makes it available to less people so how that can be a good thing.
if it is on BBC, ITV etc if you don't like it (football, golf etc etc ) you can turn it off or over.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The sport hasn't changed since Sky started showing golf - not one single bit has changed that can be attributed to Sky

Less people now watch the sport because of the lack of golf on terrestrial telly - when I was growing up there were a great deal number events on telly - not now 

Sky hasn't improved all sports - it's just made some sports more money focused 

When the BBC show the Open they show more golf shots within that 4 day period that Sky do all year round - ten hours uninterrupted coverage with no adverts , no shot centre and available to the whole of the country
		
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Just to reiterate, you're hear criticising sky's coverage blaiming a lack of viewing figures on them, yet streaming the footy online I presume......

just like film piracy, these are reasons for viewing figures going down. People not willing to pay to participate, looking for the cheap option.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			The Beeb is a business. Supply and demand. Not enough people want golf so they don't show it. Who showed the better coverage of the solheim cup?
		
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It can be the best coverage in the world - it doesn't change the fact it's not available to everyone

People can't just turn over and watch for the Open - they would now have to pay to watch it - non golfers aren't going to pay to watch it 

You now have the situation where you won't attract non golfers to watch the sport.


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## Jungle (Jan 31, 2015)

teetime75 said:



			If there`s one thing puts me off tv sport it`s analysts.
Be it footy golf snooker or darts,I employ the mute I don`t need anyone to tell me what i`ve
just seen,

I`ve got a brain and can analyse my own game as it progresses.
I do not need Steve Davis to tell me such a body should not have missed that easy red.
Get rid.
		
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Yep, nothing like ten minutes of silence to really let that performance sink in. 

For as much as the arm chair fan likes to think they know their stuff there is no replacing someone who has played at a top level, has faced down a six footer for a championship. It's great having that insight.

Yes, some personalities may not be to everyones liking but by in large the know what they are talking about.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			Just to reiterate, you're hear criticising sky's coverage blaiming a lack of viewing figures on them, yet streaming the footy online I presume......

just like film piracy, these are reasons for viewing figures going down. People not willing to pay to participate, looking for the cheap option.
		
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I always say don't presume anything


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I always say don't presume anything
		
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Ok. Straight question. Radio? Sky? Or anfield. Where was your opinion on today's game formed?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It can be the best coverage in the world - it doesn't change the fact it's not available to everyone

People can't just turn over and watch for the Open - they would now have to pay to watch it - non golfers aren't going to pay to watch it 

You now have the situation where you won't attract non golfers to watch the sport.
		
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All of what you say is true. And your opinion of golf coverage has been documented (you don't rate sky). But to suggest non golf fans can't find it isn't really true. People found it previously by scrolling through 4 channels. 

Are you suggesting people watch every channel hey have in their sky package? My old dear mother in law doesn't like sport at all but has the complete package. So her son could be at home. Footy finishes and he flicks through and sees the golf. 

I i agree not everyone will see it. But it being on terrestrial imo hasn't exactky seen golf thrive. There are bigger issues than who will be showing ONE competition a year. The Ryder cup is rumoured to be one of the most watch sporting events in the world.  What channel is it watched on? So plenty we it and not all of them pick up clubs.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			Ok. Straight question. Radio? Sky? Or anfield. Where was your opinion on today's game formed?
		
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I haven't seen the full game today to form an opinion and no idea what it has to do with a thread about R&A


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## hines57 (Jan 31, 2015)

The Open will only be available to those willing and ABLE to pay the significant monthly fees required for SKY. how does that help break down old images of golf and make it inclusive! How many of today's top golfers started after watching Seve, Faldo and the like on the BBC?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I haven't seen the full game today to form an opinion and no idea what it has to do with a thread about R&A
		
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My original point was simply about everyone being able to view sport if they wish. Which was clear enough in my first point.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			All of what you say is true. And your opinion of golf coverage has been documented (you don't rate sky). But to suggest non golf fans can't find it isn't really true. People found it previously by scrolling through 4 channels. 

Are you suggesting people watch every channel hey have in their sky package? My old dear mother in law doesn't like sport at all but has the complete package. So her son could be at home. Footy finishes and he flicks through and sees the golf. 

I i agree not everyone will see it. But it being on terrestrial imo hasn't exactky seen golf thrive. There are bigger issues than who will be showing ONE competition a year. The Ryder cup is rumoured to be one of the most watch sporting events in the world.  What channel is it watched on? So plenty we it and not all of them pick up clubs.
		
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More people watch that "one" competition - the biggest golf comp in the world - in the UK than watched the Ryder Cup if stats on Twitter today are correct - 4.5 million watched Rory's final round this year 

Non golf fans without sky will no longer ever watch golf - they won't pay for sky , they won't go searching through websites to watch it - they flick it on on BBC and watch the final day - because it's easy and convinient to do


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			All of what you say is true. And your opinion of golf coverage has been documented (you don't rate sky). But to suggest non golf fans can't find it isn't really true. People found it previously by scrolling through 4 channels. 

Are you suggesting people watch every channel hey have in their sky package? My old dear mother in law doesn't like sport at all but has the complete package. So her son could be at home. Footy finishes and he flicks through and sees the golf. 

I i agree not everyone will see it. But it being on terrestrial imo hasn't exactky seen golf thrive. There are bigger issues than who will be showing ONE competition a year. *The Ryder cup is rumoured to be one of the most watch sporting events in the world.*  What channel is it watched on? So plenty we it and not all of them pick up clubs.
		
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How many watch it in the UK? Cos the number of people watching it in other countries is irrelevant to a discussion about the beeb not showing the Open in this country. Of course its well watched, there's likely to be millions watching in the States. But they wont be concerned if the beeb stop showing the Open.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

hines57 said:



			The Open will only be available to those willing and ABLE to pay the significant monthly fees required for SKY. how does that help break down old images of golf and make it inclusive! How many of today's top golfers started after watching Seve, Faldo and the like on the BBC?
		
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And how many have been inspired by the blanket coverage of woods??

who inspired seve? Was that all the tv coverage?


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

hines57 said:



			The Open will only be available to those willing and ABLE to pay the significant monthly fees required for SKY. how does that help break down old images of golf and make it inclusive! *How many of today's top golfers started after watching Seve, Faldo and the like on the BBC?*

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Indeed. How many would take up the game now if they saw Rory tearing it up on a regular basis?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			My original point was simply about everyone being able to view sport if they wish. Which was clear enough in my first point.
		
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But that's not the point - you clearly miss the point - with it on terrestrial TV it was easy for people to watch - they didn't have to pay just to watch it , they didn't have to go onto theur laptop to watch a rubbish grainy illegal stream - it was there for "EVERYONE" at the press of one button with no additional cost - that has no gone along with all those casual viewers that might take the game up


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			And how many have been inspired by the blanket coverage of woods??

*who inspired seve?* Was that all the tv coverage?
		
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From what i remember it was his uncle. But Seve wasnt brought up in England watching the Open on the beeb. That's what this discussion is about. And didnt Faldo take up golf after watching Nicklaus at the Masters?


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2015)

Coverage of last years open was a farce. Pathetic. A waste of time. 

The first two days I was working. I get home, coverage has ended for the day. Fine. I'll watch the highlights. Oh, they aren't showing any. Not until 01.30 in the morning anyway. Wow, thanks, I'll give it a miss.

The weekend was fine, but again, no highlights. I was around to watch the pm players. I saw seagulls, kids eating ice creams, a ship, which appeared to be floating in the sky, any thing other than golf really.

Ok, no adverts though.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			Coverage of last years open was a farce. Pathetic. A waste of time. 

The first two days I was working. I get home, coverage has ended for the day. Fine. I'll watch the highlights. Oh, they aren't showing any. Not until 01.30 in the morning anyway. Wow, thanks, I'll give it a miss.

The weekend was fine, but again, no highlights. I was around to watch the pm players. I saw seagulls, kids eating ice creams, a ship, which appeared to be floating in the sky, any thing other than golf really.

Ok, no adverts though.
		
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Isnt the Open on from 9 in the morning until nearly 9 at night? They cant show golf ad infinitum, if you missed the near 12 hours of coverage, well that's life. 

As for the non-golf shots, surely you've got to mix it up when you're on for almost half of the day.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But that's not the point - you clearly miss the point - with it on terrestrial TV it was easy for people to watch - they didn't have to pay just to watch it , they didn't have to go onto theur laptop to watch a rubbish grainy illegal stream - it was there for "EVERYONE" at the press of one button with no additional cost - that has no gone along with all those casual viewers that might take the game up
		
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I don't miss the point at all. I simply don't agree with YOUR point. 

But ok, let's go back to that. Only have sports on the bbc. With the budget they put into it, how would you expect the game to progress. The bbc show ONE tournament a year. If the sport is relying on one event a year to inspire future generations then it's in trouble.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Isnt the Open on from 9 in the morning until nearly 9 at night? They cant show golf ad infinitum, if you missed the near 12 hours of coverage, well that's life. 

As for the non-golf shots, surely you've got to mix it up when you're on for almost half of the day.
		
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Wimbledon?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			How many watch it in the UK? Cos the number of people watching it in other countries is irrelevant to a discussion about the beeb not showing the Open in this country. Of course its well watched, there's likely to be millions watching in the States. But they wont be concerned if the beeb stop showing the Open.
		
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from what I saw online around 2m. Haven't seen figures for the open, other than the Twitter comment above from Phil.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			Wimbledon?
		
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Coverage doesnt start at 9 in the morning.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			More people watch that "one" competition - the biggest golf comp in the world - in the UK than watched the Ryder Cup if stats on Twitter today are correct - 4.5 million watched Rory's final round this year 

Non golf fans without sky will no longer ever watch golf - they won't pay for sky , they won't go searching through websites to watch it - they flick it on on BBC and watch the final day - because it's easy and convinient to do
		
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I guess I'm for a different era than you Phil. Rightly or wrongly, when I talk to people about golf. The even they remember is The Masters. I'm not saying the masters is better. But it's more familiar to non golf fans. As they have seen it lots of times. 

as to peope watching it coz it's easy and convenient. People watching it as white noise doesn't help the future of the game.


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Coverage doesnt start at 9 in the morning.
		
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It runs from 11, until gone 9, and then there's an hours high lights. For pretty near two weeks. On bbc1 and 2.

Why can't highlights of the golf be on bbc3, or bbc4, let alone the main channels, after 9?


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			I guess I'm for a different era than you Phil. Rightly or wrongly, when I talk to people about golf. The even they remember is The Masters. I'm not saying the masters is better. *But it's more familiar to non golf fans. As they have seen it lots of times. *

as to peope watching it coz it's easy and convenient. People watching it as white noise doesn't help the future of the game.
		
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For how much longer? Coverage has been halved in the last 5 years, it'll probably be none within the next 5.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			It runs from 11, until gone 9, and then there's an hours high lights. For pretty near two weeks. On bbc1 and 2.

Why can't highlights of the golf be on bbc3, or bbc4, let alone the main channels, after 9?
		
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Yeah but even my mum watches Wimbledon so the beeb can get away with showing more of it without too many people getting the hump.


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## Crow (Jan 31, 2015)

Speaking from my own point of view, I don't particularly want to see all the bells and whistles that Sky adds (for Sky assume Sky, Virgin, BT, etc).
All I want to see is the golf with some decent commentary thrown in by the likes of Ken Brown et al.

I don't want to be forced to have to pay a large amount of cash to Sky to be able to see something that is shown very well as it is at the moment.



And now a simple question - Why do modern day sports coverage deals have to be exclusive and whose idea was this?
Why can't Sky buy a share of the rights and both Sky and the BBC show The Open at the same time to their respective audiences?



I remember when the FA Cup was the sporting event of the year (I'll make no comments  as to why that event has faltered) and it was shown on both the BBC and ITV. Nowadays deals have to be exclusive, which racks up the cost to the broadcaster and in turn the poor fools watching it.



And another question, many Sky subscribers moan about having to pay the licencee fee but don't seem put off at having to pay many times than that to watch Sky and the like.
How much is a typical Sky package with the Sports package so that one can watch the golf?


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## FairwayDodger (Jan 31, 2015)

I think it's a bad thing for the profile of golf in general. However, there's no doubt that Sky's coverage is vastly superior to what the BBC have managed over the last few years. Almost all the criticisms of Sky's golf coverage are based on their American golf stuff on which they are hostage to the host broadcaster's coverage. The job they do on the European tour is pretty good, I think.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			For how much longer? Coverage has been halved in the last 5 years, it'll probably be none within the next 5.
		
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You presume it's familiar beaus of the Beeb? Pretty much my entire social circle is sports orientated so we've all got sky. Maybe that's why Im not averse to their coverage. But generally when we chat about stuff, we don't ask where t was watched.


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			You presume it's familiar beaus of the Beeb? *Pretty much my entire social circle is sports orientated so we've all got sky*. Maybe that's why Im not averse to their coverage. But generally when we chat about stuff, we don't ask where t was watched.
		
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How very fortunate for you all. I'd imagine that not all sports fans are in such a position.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			How very fortunate for you all. I'd imagine that not all sports fans are in such a position.
		
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Ok that came out pompous. Simply saying me and my mates can watch sky sports isn't fortinate. I'm sure they all had it on benefit street!

if people can't afford sky, not saying they have to want it. But if affording sky is really that unrealistic for them. Then are they really gonna be the ones inspired to take up golf from the Beeb?


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## Tongo (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			Ok that came out pompous. Simply saying me and my mates can watch sky sports isn't fortinate. I'm sure they all had it on benefit street!

if people can't afford sky, not saying they have to want it. But if affording sky is really that unrealistic for them. Then are they really gonna be the ones inspired to take up golf from the Beeb?
		
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It'd be interesting to know the % of households that have Sky Sports in this country.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			Wimbledon?
		
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Wimbledon coverage starts in the afternoon and normally finishes around 8 ( unless a game is still going on )

The golf starts on Red button and 7 in the morning then on normal telly from 8:30 until 8 then highlights later or on the red button or on the web 


The BBC has already dedicated most of the day to the live coverage - it then has to cater for the other millions of tax payers


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			You presume it's familiar beaus of the Beeb? Pretty much my entire social circle is sports orientated so we've all got sky. Maybe that's why Im not averse to their coverage. But generally when we chat about stuff, we don't ask where t was watched.
		
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What about the majority of the country that aren't fortunate enough to be able to watch sky or afford Sky - their one golf tournament has now gone


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## Jimaroid (Jan 31, 2015)

If the Open being on the BBC improves participation, why have numbers declined in the years it's been on the BBC? Participation is not going to be any better or worse by being on Sky because that's not the problem. 

As I've said before. The future golfers, children and teenagers, aren't watching much Broadcast TV any more.  The sport needs to broaden it's reach away from TV and market itself in other ways if it wants to appeal to future generations. I'm sure the R&A are aware of this and now is probably the right time to take the larger pile of money on offer to invest in a new future. 

Continuing to do the same thing when it isn't working is a path to complete failure. 

I love the BBC and abhor Sky, but I think the R&A should take the money and try something new. It's time.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2015)

Tongo said:



			It'd be interesting to know the % of households that have Sky Sports in this country.
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			What about the majority of the country that aren't fortunate enough to be able to watch sky or afford Sky - their one golf tournament has now gone
		
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Well according to google there are 25.6m households in the uk. 
Of which 16m have a pay per view subscription. What they subscribe to I don't know. But of its not sport then I'd imagine golf isn't something they'd wish to view. 

Thats is not a majority without it. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_Kingdom


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about the majority of the country that aren't fortunate enough to be able to watch sky or afford Sky - their one golf tournament has now gone
		
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An awful lot of families have Sky or Virgin and so get the football which is largely on Sky bar, the FA cup and England games, so hardly regular and wall to wall coverage of the best players. Having already got that they will get the golf. I really don't get the argument that kids wont' see their idols or see golf on the TV and want to try it. Aside from four days a year at the Open, Masters, RC highlights and other bits and bobs terrestrial TV has shown no golf and so "little Johnny" will get very little chance to see Rory.

I also don't necessarily buy into the argument that majority are poor enough not to be able to afford Sky. Funny how many on benefits,  can manage it certainly around here. It's more a consumer rather than financially based one in my opinion


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## Jungle (Jan 31, 2015)

Papas1982 said:



			Well according to google there are 25.6m households in the uk. 
Of which 16m have a pay per view subscription. What they subscribe to I don't know. But of its not sport then I'd imagine golf isn't something they'd wish to view. 

Thats is not a majority without it. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_Kingdom

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Thats about right.

Sky has about 11.4 million customers Virgin just under 5 million. Sky Sports is also available through platforms such as BT, so you could surmise that there is approx 6 - 6.5 million households subscribing to Sky Sports.


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## patricks148 (Jan 31, 2015)

TBH, i think if they do the same sort of job as they do with the cricket the coverage will be improved.

The main positive will be a highlights package which ive never seen on the BBC.


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## Duckster (Jan 31, 2015)

The Beeb will still have a highlights show, just not live coverage.

After god knows how many years of this being the status quo in regards to football, rugby, cricket etc.. etc.. pretty sure the viewing public will adapt.

Like most sports.  If you want to watch it live, you'll have to get Sky.


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## Val (Jan 31, 2015)

The only golf you see on terrestrial TV currently is the Open Championship and highlights of the Masters (i don't think they show the Scottish Open anymore but i may be wrong). Is it a surprise that Sky got it eventually? I'm surprised it took so long personally and I'm certain they'll do a great job with it, and if I'm honest other than listening to old Peter and watching Ken on the course I thought the BBC did a good job.


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## Val (Jan 31, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think it's a bad thing for the profile of golf in general. However, there's no doubt that Sky's coverage is vastly superior to what the BBC have managed over the last few years. Almost all the criticisms of Sky's golf coverage are based on their American golf stuff on which they are hostage to the host broadcaster's coverage. The job they do on the European tour is pretty good, I think.
		
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I think they do a great job with ET golf, SKY have a great mix of personalties covering the ET with Radar, Boxy etc. Like most though I'm not a fan of Roe but can tolerate him.


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## PIng (Jan 31, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think it's a bad thing for the profile of golf in general. However, there's no doubt that Sky's coverage is vastly superior to what the BBC have managed over the last few years. Almost all the criticisms of Sky's golf coverage are based on their American golf stuff on which they are hostage to the host broadcaster's coverage. The job they do on the European tour is pretty good, I think.
		
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I agree with everything in this post. It sums it up perfectly in a few sentences.


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## Piece (Jan 31, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			If the Open being on the BBC improves participation, why have numbers declined in the years it's been on the BBC? Participation is not going to be any better or worse by being on Sky because that's not the problem. 

As I've said before. The future golfers, children and teenagers, aren't watching much Broadcast TV any more.  The sport needs to broaden it's reach away from TV and market itself in other ways if it wants to appeal to future generations. I'm sure the R&A are aware of this and now is probably the right time to take the larger pile of money on offer to invest in a new future. 

Continuing to do the same thing when it isn't working is a path to complete failure. 

I love the BBC and abhor Sky, but I think the R&A should take the money and try something new. It's time.
		
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Bang on...apart from the abhor bit


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## MadAdey (Jan 31, 2015)

The US Tour coverage is caused by American TV. At least with SKY they switch to the studio talk golf when the US has yet another 2 minute add break. You lot are lucky, I have to watch yet another advert for the latest Chevy hillbilly truck.


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## MadAdey (Jan 31, 2015)

SKY will take open coverage to a new level IMO. They will show the OPEN from the very first tee time to the last person holing out every day. They will have extensive highlight shows through the night and will put together a 4 hour run through of the OPEN showing all the best bits, that will get shown for weeks after. 

Anyone who can afford to play golf can afford SKY Sports. So if people are annoyed that they will not get to watch it then that is your choice not to have SKY Sports.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

MadAdey said:



			SKY will take open coverage to a new level IMO. They will show the OPEN from the very first tee time to the last person holing out every day. They will have extensive highlight shows through the night and will put together a 4 hour run through of the OPEN showing all the best bits, that will get shown for weeks after. 

Anyone who can afford to play golf can afford SKY Sports. So if people are annoyed that they will not get to watch it then that is your choice not to have SKY Sports.
		
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Golfers will mainly already have Skysports 

Believe BBC already show from the very first tee to the last shot - and do it without one single advert in between , without one visit to the shot centre , without one visit to hearing bumbling monty 

But it's not just about the golfers who watch 

What about the non golfers who enjoyed watching the Open or enjoyed watching the final stages or stumbled across it only for their kid to ask to watch it - what about the kids who like watching the Open but whose parents don't like sports - he can no longer go to his room to watch it on his own telly , what about the 60 year old fan who can't afford sky or doesn't have sky ? 

Selling the rights to Sky reduces the amount of people who can watch golf. Not sure how reducing the viewing window can be a positive

And an example is the viewing figures for the masters is 5 times lower for Sky than it is for BBC


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## KenL (Jan 31, 2015)

Despite the fact that I have Sky Sports, I am really disappointed (no disgusted) that the most important and oldest event in golf will only be available to those willing to pay > Â£50 per month for TV.

Currently the BBC coverage is excellent and doesn't have adverts every 10 minutes!

I thought that THE Open was protected and had to be on free TV, if not it should be.  The Open and golf is bigger than Wimbledon, no?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Selling the rights to Sky reduces the amount of people who can watch golf. Not sure how reducing the viewing window can be a positive
		
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But, if the R&A use the money to increase participation then it can only be good for the Game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			But, if the R&A use the money to increase participation then it can only be good for the Game.
		
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It's Â£3mil - not fortunes - I reckon not one single penny of that Â£3mil will go to golf clubs to increase participation


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## bluewolf (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's Â£3mil - not fortunes - I reckon not one single penny of that Â£3mil will go to golf clubs to increase participation
		
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It will be interesting to track the extra funding and see exactly where it goes. I'm sure the R&A must have made plans for this little windfall...............


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's Â£3mil - not fortunes - I reckon not one single penny of that Â£3mil will go to golf clubs to increase participation
		
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The Mail reports it as 10 Million a year, the BBC didn't want to raise it's 7 Million, but were happy to pay an extra 25 Mill plus to keep MOTD.
Yet participation in Football in the UK has dropped! shows how much the BBC care.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			The Mail reports it as 10 Million a year, the BBC didn't want to raise it's 7 Million, but were happy to pay an extra 25 Mill plus to keep MOTD.
Yet participation in Football in the UK has dropped! shows how much the BBC care.
		
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Motd is one of the BBC's most popular programs 4-5mil every week.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jan 31, 2015)

Don't doubt it, but you were posting about not showing the Open could lead to people not playing Golf, they show loads of football and less are playing, therefore there is no direct link to the open on the BBC attracting more to Golf than when it's shown on Sky.


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## bluewolf (Jan 31, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			The Mail reports it as 10 Million a year, the BBC didn't want to raise it's 7 Million, but were happy to pay an extra 25 Mill plus to keep MOTD.
Yet participation in Football in the UK has dropped! shows how much the BBC care.
		
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The latest figures on the BBC website appear to show that participation in Football has increased last year...

Golf was down from 751900 to 730300..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 31, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Don't doubt it, but you were posting about not showing the Open could lead to people not playing Golf, they show loads of football and less are playing, therefore there is no direct link to the open on the BBC attracting more to Golf than when it's shown on Sky.
		
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My post was about restricting the viewing of golfing events

At one stage Terristial telly had 18 events - now - none


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## chellie (Jan 31, 2015)

MadAdey said:



			Anyone who can afford to play golf can afford SKY Sports. So if people are annoyed that they will not get to watch it then that is your choice not to have SKY Sports.
		
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We can afford to play golf because we don't pay for Sky Sports. Sure we're not the only ones as well talking to people at the club about it.


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## SammmeBee (Jan 31, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's Â£3mil - not fortunes - I reckon not one single penny of that Â£3mil will go to golf clubs to increase participation
		
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Why would they give it to golf clubs?


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## USER1999 (Jan 31, 2015)

B



KenL said:



			Despite the fact that I have Sky Sports, I am really disappointed (no disgusted) that the most important and oldest event in golf will only be available to those willing to pay > Â£50 per month for TV.

Currently the BBC coverage is excellent and doesn't have adverts every 10 minutes!

I thought that THE Open was protected and had to be on free TV, if not it should be.  The Open and golf is bigger than Wimbledon, no?
		
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Um, no, Wimbledon is way bigger than the open.


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## Sion (Feb 1, 2015)

I'm diserpointed that it's going to sky. I loved it on the BBC. It just seems to be adverts every 20 minutes on sky sports!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			B

Um, no, Wimbledon is way bigger than the open.
		
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Guess will depend on what is being used to judge the size


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## SammmeBee (Feb 1, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Guess will depend on what is being used to judge the size
		
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Attendance
Prize Money
Revenue
Champers
Strawberries
Competitors
Nice looking birds
Queues to get in

Wimbledon is way bigger.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 1, 2015)

* Lee Westwood has branded The Open Championshipâ€™s impending move to Sky Sports â€œan absolute disgraceâ€ and pointed the finger at the Government as well as the BBC and the gameâ€™s governing body.

The R&A will announce a new contract in the next few days which will feature the subscription network taking over as exclusive live rights holders of the British major from 2017, so ending what will by then be a 61-year relationship with the BBC. The corporation will be left with the highlights, which must be shown on free-to-air TV as stipulated by the â€œCrown Jewelsâ€ legislation.

However, Westwood is just one perplexed and angry figure within the sport who wonders why live coverage of the Open is not protected in the same way as the Wimbledon finals. With golf participation in sharp decline, the former world Noâ€‰1 is worried about the consequences, reiterating the points he made to Telegraph Sport three weeks ago when we broke the story of the Openâ€™s forthcoming migration.

â€œI cannot believe the Open isnâ€™t protected as one of the crown jewels â€“ that is an absolute disgrace,â€ Westwood said. â€œItâ€™s very disappointing, even though I can appreciate how much Sky have done for the European Tour, and how much theyâ€™ve done for the game of golf. But look at the viewing figures for Sky compared to the BBC and you have to question it when the number of golfers are dwindling.

â€œI wouldnâ€™t have got into golf if it wasnâ€™t for watching Nick Faldo win the Open in 1987. I would watch every minute of the coverage, and you want todayâ€™s kids to have the same opportunity. The BBC is doing golf no favours at all by letting the Open go.â€


When asked whether the R&A is at fault as well, Westwood replied: â€œWell, it is the guardian of the game. But it seems to be all money-driven, and Sky are willing to pay more than anyone else.â€ That is true, but only it seems to the tune of an extra Â£3â€‰million a year. The BBCâ€™s last contract, signed in 2010 up to and including next yearâ€™s tournament at Royal Troon, was understood to cost Â£7â€‰million per annum and although the R&A will place great import on the extra finance which will help develop global golf programmes, there is also a sense that this has more to do with the BBC walking away from golf, than golf walking away from the BBC.

In a decade it will have gone from screening 24 days of live menâ€™s professional golf to only two â€“ the Saturday and the Sunday from the Masters.

Westwood was backed by Graeme McDowell, the former USâ€‰â€‰Open champion from Northern Ireland. â€œI agree with Westy completely; we are all very aware of the falling numbers and how dangerously on the precipice we are, regarding where the game needs to go in terms of attracting women and children,â€ McDowell said. â€œGolfâ€™s inclusion in the Olympics [from next year] should hopefully help that, bringing the sport to so many television homes. But you can see Westyâ€™s point, and I do sympathise with the British viewer. I feel bad for anyone, sitting at home with their TV licence and who will be robbed of Peter Alliss and the boys. The coverage from 7.30am to 7.30pm at night is special.â€

However, McDowell is an admirer of Sky and the manner in which it projects the game. There is a widely held belief within golf that the BBCâ€™s coverage has become shabby by comparison, especially with its camera work, which consistently fails to pick up balls in the air.

â€œHave we reached the point, where we need to shake up the viewing experience?â€ McDowell said. â€œI like what Sky have done in so many sports and letâ€™s see what they can do with the Open. I do feel it is a better general viewing experience with high-def and slow-mo and the rest.â€

Rory McIlroy, the world Noâ€‰1, was not as forthright in his belief as his two Ryder Cup team-mates, but also recognises the downside. â€œI guess itâ€™s just the way itâ€™s gone â€“ money talks, you know,â€ McIlroy said. â€œItâ€™s a shame the Open will not be on terrestrial television, but what can you do about I? I know Sky is expensive and a lot of people canâ€™t afford it and it is a shame. It would have been nice if they could have come to some sort of resolution but there it is.â€ *

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/go...-move-to-Sky-Sports-an-absolute-disgrace.html


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## Fish (Feb 2, 2015)

I've not read all through the thread but I've just read that apparently the R&A gave the Beeb a warning regarding poor golf coverage and the Beeb prioritised MOTD! As such they (BBC) have hardly fought for the right to keep it, have they?


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## patricks148 (Feb 2, 2015)

Fish said:



			I've not read all through the thread but I've just read that apparently the R&A gave the Beeb a warning regarding poor golf coverage and the Beeb prioritised MOTD! As such they (BBC) have hardly fought for the right to keep it, have they?
		
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Yep, Much like Cricket the beeb under performed there and lost it. when chanel 4 took over cricket instantly more coverage, Highlights packages, a magazine show domestic games, even am cup games. the bbc just want to keep the good stuff without doing anything to further the game


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## Duckster (Feb 2, 2015)

Fish said:



			I've not read all through the thread but I've just read that apparently the R&A gave the Beeb a warning regarding poor golf coverage and the Beeb prioritised MOTD! As such they (BBC) have hardly fought for the right to keep it, have they?
		
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Daily Mail states that the MOTD contract is Â£204million!  And they couldn't scrape together Â£10m to screen the golf.


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## drdel (Feb 2, 2015)

The BBC have become driven by cash for a few in their clique. Why they need to pay excessive fees to presenters I have no idea. There are many competent people who could do the job for a few hundred thousand and be very, very happy but they pay millions to a few.

Golf's exposure will be reduced even more.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 2, 2015)

One of the biggest bones of contention with BBC coverage has to be the number of presenters and reporters attached to the event. I still don't think it's a bad thing and to be honest if I was Westwood I wouldn't get involved. Surely he's only biting the hand that feeds him and if a deal with Sky gives the R&A more revenue (why else do it) then surely prize money will go up.


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## Tongo (Feb 2, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			One of the biggest bones of contention with BBC coverage has to be the number of presenters and reporters attached to the event. I still don't think it's a bad thing and to be honest if I was Westwood I wouldn't get involved. *Surely he's only biting the hand that feeds him and if a deal with Sky gives the R&A more revenue (why else do it) then surely prize money will go up*.
		
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Maybe Westwood realises that its not just about him and how much dough he can earn. I can't imagine he's short of cash.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 2, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			One of the biggest bones of contention with BBC coverage has to be the number of presenters and reporters attached to the event. I still don't think it's a bad thing and to be honest if I was Westwood I wouldn't get involved. Surely he's only biting the hand that feeds him and if a deal with Sky gives the R&A more revenue (why else do it) then surely prize money will go up.
		
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Find it interesting though as Westwood last week was all over Twitter promoting the advert him and Darren Clarke had done for Your Golf Travel, which upto now will not be seen on the BBC. So he'll be making money from Companies that advertise, so being on Sky might be good for future work for him?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 2, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Maybe Westwood realises that its not just about him and how much dough he can earn. I can't imagine he's short of cash.
		
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The point is, in my mind at least, that the deal is as good as done. It will happen (money talks) and to be fair I think its an inditement on the BBC sitting on its hands and doing precious little to push the game forward or protect the sport for the viewer. Its as simple as this. Let's not forget they managed to lose MOTD before when they sat back and didn't bid enough and I've an inkling that may happen when that contract next expires. They did the same with cricket and horse racing


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## GB72 (Feb 2, 2015)

I agree with this in that I have always felt like the BBC has a sense of entitlement, we are the BBC and so we deserve the biggest sporting events. Now the open has gone and if rumours are to be believed then the 6 nations rugby is next. The BBC is ideally placed to publicise lower level sport, a Saturday show like grandstand would have been perfect for sports of all kind to be publicised but the BBC has only ever shown interest in the glory events, the crown jewels and every event they do cover is populated by so many freeloaders as every tv and radio show decides it just has to be presented from there. I don't have sky sports at the moment but I am not upset that the BBC has lost out


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