# How do I get less draw with my driver?



## One Planer (Jul 22, 2014)

Honestly, something I never thought I would say 

Went for a quick 9 holes tonight after work and found that my constant over draw with my driver is still plaguing me. 

The next longest club in my bag, my 910 4 wood, is going fantastically well. The ball flight on this starts off as a bit of a push but then draws back to the fairway. 

My driver, 910D2, is a different kettle of fish :angry:

The ball starts straight, or very, very fractionally right but curves quite a bit more than the 4 wood generally meaning I miss the fairway left. 

A typical example was our second where the ball started straight, but then curved left ending up in the conifers at the end of the fairway. 

I had a similar issue going up the 4th, with a drive leaving me in the copse toward the end if the fairway but blocking me out from the green. 

Distance is still ok as the conifers and copse are 230 and 240 yards from the tee, but the over draw of the ball is killing my positioning. 

I had a bit of a vicious hook going on a little while back caused by the ball position creeping too far back, but since correcting the hook I'm left with an over-draw. 

Any pointers in reducing the amount if draw I'm getting would be appreciated :thup:


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2014)

Ultimately you need to reduce the difference between the path of the club and the club face angle.

It is likely your path is too in to out or your clubface is too closed or a combination of both. Would highly recommend a session on trackman (or similar) to understand your path and clubface and their relationship (and the resultant spin axis). also if you are hitting the ball out of the toe maybe over amplifying the effect


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## One Planer (Jul 22, 2014)

I understand that bit Steve, it's more the how I'm looking at. 


If the ball is starting straight, then the club face is square at impact, the path the then gives the shape. 

For my limited understanding of the ball flight laws, if I could keep the path the same but get the face a little more open, the draw would be less pronounced. I'm more than happy to be corrected if that's wrong :thup:


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## fundy (Jul 22, 2014)

Gareth said:



			I understand that bit Steve, it's more the how I'm looking at. 


If the ball is starting straight, then the club face is square at impact, the path the then gives the shape. 

For my limited understanding of the ball flight laws, if I could keep the path the same but get the face a little more open, the draw would be less pronounced. I'm more than happy to be corrected if that's wrong :thup:
		
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Think its dangerous to look at them separately having spent a bit of time trying to change mine lately, they are too closely interlinked imo.

Yes simplistically, you need the clubface to be more open relative to the path, what the best way to achieve that for you is hard to say without seeing the swing on video and the stats. By all means set the driver more open and give it a try but longer term working on path and clubface together and learning for you what causes them likely to be far more beneficial

the problem I always found with setting the clubface more open was i knew it was open, so then felt I had to close it more through impact, which ultimately led to me hitting it with more shape. to accomodate this I tried to hit more in to out until i got to the point where i was 9 degrees in to out with a clubface that was 6 or 7 degrees closed. Now I understand it better Im trying to get a neutral path (no more than 2 degrees) and as close to neutral a clubface to that path as I can. Makes controlling the shape far far easier. Not saying this is whats happening with you but seems an easy path to go down when making corrective adjustments in isolation and definitely something to guard against


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## Snelly (Jul 22, 2014)

I'd check your grip.


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## rickg (Jul 22, 2014)

Buy a SLDR and set the weight to max fade........works a treat!!:thup:


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## garyinderry (Jul 22, 2014)

it may well be the grip.   I am hooking / over drawing my driver something awful.   I cant seem to find a neutral grip.  I try weakening it and I can never find a middle ground.  I can weaken it so much but it just turns into a slice.

I am on the verge of seeking professional help. it is probably the easiest answer for both of us!


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## One Planer (Jul 22, 2014)

Snelly said:



			I'd check your grip.
		
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First thing I checked Snelly. Right hand is fine, left had shows 2 knuckles.



rickg said:



			Buy a SLDR and set the weight to max fade........works a treat!!:thup:
		
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Nah, I'll open my 910 up to B1


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## One Planer (Jul 22, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			it may well be the grip.   I am hooking / over drawing my driver something awful.   I cant seem to find a neutral grip.  I try weakening it and I can never find a middle ground.  I can weaken it so much but it just turns into a slice.

I am on the verge of seeking professional help. it is probably the easiest answer for both of us!
		
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I can't remember the last time I sliced my driver...... Honestly.

I developed a smother hook (low and left) because I had the ball too far back. Moved it forward and it's better, but reluctant to move the ball too far forward for obvious reasons.


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## the_coach (Jul 22, 2014)

Get some foot spray & check where exactly the ball is contacting the face, could be that it's a little ways toe side of center.

If it was a true overdraw it would start out more on right edge of fairway or maybes further right then curve back to center but then keep going left. So not really by the sound of it a draw or overdraw.

So sounds like the swing path is in pretty good shape so fairly neutral near to 0Âº of the ball/target line, it's definitely not a ways in to out or ball would be starting well to the right in direction off the face, before curving left.
Would seem, giving a reasonable distance that the weight shift is also in pretty reasonable shape. 

Possible that your starting the downswing with bit of a snatch from the hands arms shoulders so for the ones that start fairly straight but then end up left off fairway could be a little bit of a pull hook. Just a result of trying to give it a bit more swing speed/power.

But if the path isn't a little ways left (so not a little pull hook) but more path neutral, one thing for you to look at (along with the spray to see contact position on face) would be the face rotation through impact, as too much face rotation would give you a straight-ish starting direction but the closing down through the rotation would give you the shot you describe ending up off fairway left. 

So check are you rolling wrists, rolling forearms over through strike, set up phone dtl & face on & see if the right forearm is moving more completely over to be on top of the left forearm just before & through impact.


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## One Planer (Jul 23, 2014)

the_coach said:



			Get some foot spray & check where exactly the ball is contacting the face, could be that it's a little ways toe side of center.

*If it was a true overdraw it would start out more on right edge of fairway or maybes further right then curve back to center* but then keep going left. So not really by the sound of it a draw or overdraw.

So sounds like the swing path is in pretty good shape so fairly neutral near to 0Âº of the ball/target line, it's definitely not a ways in to out or ball would be starting well to the right in direction off the face, before curving left.
Would seem, giving a reasonable distance that the weight shift is also in pretty reasonable shape. 

Possible that your starting the downswing with bit of a snatch from the hands arms shoulders so for the ones that start fairly straight but then end up left off fairway could be a little bit of a pull hook. Just a result of trying to give it a bit more swing speed/power.

But if the path isn't a little ways left (so not a little pull hook) but more path neutral, one thing for you to look at (along with the spray to see contact position on face) would be the face rotation through impact, as too much face rotation would give you a straight-ish starting direction but the closing down through the rotation would give you the shot you describe ending up off fairway left. 

So check are you rolling wrists, rolling forearms over through strike, set up phone dtl & face on & see if the right forearm is moving more completely over to be on top of the left forearm just before & through impact.
		
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Re: the bit in bold, this is what my 4 wood does. Starts off like a block, the gently curves back to centre but not past.

I hit one of my best ever drives on our 6th tonight with exactly that. Then ball I started well right, over the OOB in fact, then drew back to centre fairway. I was a good 20+ yards past where I usually am 

Driver is a different beast, lately I cannot the ball to start far enough right to account for the draw, hence the miss left. 

I agree with your assessment Coach with regards to the transition. I think taking the want to 'drive the ball' a distance out of my mindset and think more of keeping it smooth through transition will help and get my sequencing right. 

Not sure about the rolling of the wrists into strike but I know it's something I've never done, nor suffered with before. Perhaps I may have started, I will check for sure :thup:


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## garyinderry (Jul 23, 2014)

the_coach said:



			So check are you rolling wrists, rolling forearms over through strike, set up phone dtl & face on & see if the right forearm is moving more completely over to be on top of the left forearm just before & through impact.
		
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how would you stop this?   I have a feeling I might be doing this also :mmm:  


I spent a winter a few years ago trying to rid myself of my dreaded slice by following online videos about rolling the arms through impact.  its worked alright. I went from the worlds biggest slicer (my nephews words) to a stone cold hooker!


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## the_coach (Jul 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Re: the bit in bold, this is what my 4 wood does. Starts off like a block, the gently curves back to centre but not past.

I hit one of my best ever drives on our 6th tonight with exactly that. Then ball I started well right, over the OOB in fact, then drew back to centre fairway. I was a good 20+ yards past where I usually am 

Driver is a different beast, lately I cannot the ball to start far enough right to account for the draw, hence the miss left. 

I agree with your assessment Coach with regards to the transition. I think taking the want to 'drive the ball' a distance out of my mindset and think more of keeping it smooth through transition will help and get my sequencing right. 

Not sure about the rolling of the wrists into strike but I know it's something I've never done, nor suffered with before. Perhaps I may have started, I will check for sure :thup:
		
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Extra loft on the 4 metal helping you out so you not getting as much curvature to the flight.

But the shots you described with the driver aren't a draw flight. 

Invest a few $ in a can of foot spray & check where the strike is. 
Bit towards the toe side you would get some 'gear effect'. 

But from what you describe sounds if its not just a bit of a jump from transition so in fact driver swing is a tad out to in with a bit of a closed face through impact, if it's a more neutral swing path then would say that you've got some face rotation going on through the strike. You say in the past you got trouble with smother hooks that would be down to face rotation too, if you just hold your driver & gently rotate right forearm over left you'll see that it not only closes the face but delofts it a ways heavily too.


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## the_coach (Jul 23, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			how would you stop this?   I have a feeling I might be doing this also :mmm:  


I spent a winter a few years ago trying to rid myself of my dreaded slice by following online videos about rolling the arms through impact.  its worked alright. I went from the worlds biggest slicer (my nephews words) to a stone cold hooker!
		
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[video=youtube_share;gBgMSRyLWL8]http://youtu.be/gBgMSRyLWL8[/video]


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## the_coach (Jul 23, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			how would you stop this? I have a feeling I might be doing this also
		
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This small drill first without ball then with, might kinda look very innocuous & nothing much to do with the Q.

But if you are rotating the forearms or in any ways rolling right hand over left through impact, or rolling the wrists over clockwise in the takeaway. You won't be able to do this small drill with the ball & be able to start the ball straight to target & have the ball end on the target line.

The only thing that squares the face up through impact here is the hip turn & body rotation.

If you can get this small drill down correctly,_ not as easy as it looks,_ then transfer the feeling into some smooth swings with say an 8i first. if you are a forearm rotator, or wrist roller back, or through or both, this will help.

[video=youtube_share;amJ8MdymMyM]http://youtu.be/amJ8MdymMyM[/video]


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## bobmac (Jul 23, 2014)

Driver is a different beast
		
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Do you have the same shaft in your driver and 4 wood ?


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## Jack_bfc (Jul 23, 2014)

rickg said:



			Buy a SLDR and set the weight to max fade........works a treat!!:thup:
		
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Isn't that the equivalent of using a 'chipper'


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## One Planer (Jul 23, 2014)

bobmac said:



			Do you have the same shaft in your driver and 4 wood ?
		
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Funnily enough no, I don't Bob. 

I have a Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ in stiff in the driver and the Stock Kai'li shaft in regular in my 4 wood.

I still have the stock Kai'li driver shaft in regular flex at home. Perhaps bung it back in and see how that goes for a time?


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## bobmac (Jul 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Funnily enough no, I don't Bob. 

I have a Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ in stiff in the driver and the Stock Kai'li shaft in regular in my 4 wood.

I still have the stock Kai'li driver shaft in regular flex at home. Perhaps bung it back in and see how that goes for a time?
		
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I was wondering if your driver shaft was the culprit.
If you are swinging both the same way but only hooking the driver, then it may mean the loft of the 4 wood is hiding the sideways spin.
OR
It could mean you are a bit quick in the transition with the driver. That can very easily throw the shoulders open a touch changing the swing path more out to in.
By all means, give the other shaft a try but I suspect it's not the shaft that is at fault


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## One Planer (Jul 23, 2014)

bobmac said:



			I was wondering if your driver shaft was the culprit.
If you are swinging both the same way but only hooking the driver, then it may mean the loft of the 4 wood is hiding the sideways spin.
OR
*It could mean you are a bit quick in the transition with the driver. That can very easily throw the shoulders open a touch changing the swing path more out to in.
By all means, give the other shaft a try but I suspect it's not the shaft that is at fault* 

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This is where I think the issue is Bob.

I read a Butch Harmon tip a while back now of having a feeling of keeping the back to target a little longer into the downswing.

Specifically:

_The slicer usually starts the downswing by forcing the right shoulder out toward the ball. This makes the swing path steep and across the ball from out to in. 

You need to make sure your right shoulder stays back, allowing the club to drop to the inside as you start down. Your best swing thought is to keep your back facing the target longer in the downswing. 

Make a full turn behind the ball, and then keep that right shoulder passive so your upper body doesn't spin out. With the club dropping to the inside, you can swing out to the ball, which lets your arms release and square the clubface._

This helped me no end with the drive but I recently I've stopped  'using' it. Maybe time to get back to it.


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## BFL (Jul 23, 2014)

I had the opposite, slicing the driver. I just couldnt work it out as my swing path seemed fine but then I videoed my swing and my club face was open at impact. Now I close it slightly it goes straight(most of the time) but if i close it slightly too much i get a massive hook.

The video definately helped though and can hit longer now as more confidence


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## One Planer (Jul 23, 2014)

I've had a little time to reflect on last nights 9 holes and have been wondering, could my aim and alignment be out?

On the holes where my 4 wood was performing well I felt my aim was correct.

On the 2 holes where the driver over drew, I was wondering if I wasn't aligned to my target as I thought. 

And example being I _thought_ I was aligned to the bunker on the right side of the fairway, so I could draw the ball of it to the fairway.

Thinking back, I have a sneaking feeling I was aligned too far left.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



			reflect, wondering, felt, wondering, I thought, I _thought_, Thinking back, sneaking feeling
		
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Edited your post, not to be an ass, language is a wonderful thing....


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## the_coach (Jul 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



			On the 2 holes where the driver over drew, I was wondering if I wasn't aligned to my target as I thought.
		
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You mentioned that both these driver shots starting direction was straight, so straight to wherever the face was aligned too, flew straight then turned left to whatever degree, so neither could have been a draw or overdraw. 

They didn't have, if starting straight, the more parabolic shaped fight of a draw/overdraw that first started out to the right a ways so initially flying away from target line then curving back to target line (draw), or starting out right flying a ways from target line then curving back to target, but carrying on, crossing back over target line & continuing on in a leftwards direction (overdraw).


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## One Planer (Jul 23, 2014)

the_coach said:



			You mentioned that both these driver shots starting direction was straight, so straight to wherever the face was aligned too, flew straight then turned left to whatever degree, so neither could have been a draw or overdraw. 

They didn't have, if starting straight, the more parabolic shaped fight of a draw/overdraw that first started out to the right a ways so initially flying away from target line then curving back to target line (draw), or starting out right flying a ways from target line then curving back to target, but carrying on, crossing back over target line & continuing on in a leftwards direction (overdraw).
		
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So not alignment then. That's, kind if a relief.


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## the_coach (Jul 23, 2014)

Gareth said:



			So not alignment then. That's, kind if a relief.
		
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If ball with those 2 shots did start straight to your aim point, then curve, then no, but alignment something we all need to keep a constant check on. Can't be definitive but sounds more like a timing issue from transition, one of the things i mentioned in first reply.

A vast majority of issues do start with problems with set up, alignment. 
The way most folks swing, however that is, as a generalization tends to be more ingrained than folks really think in terms of path etc, tends not to vary that much if you get them on a LM. 
But the timed sequences of folks swing can vary a lot given the players internal dialogue about how the game is going, pressure of a particular shot etc. Getting the sequencing right & in good time a ways more complicated, get some of this adrift it can lead to all kinds of impacts & shots.


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## the_coach (Jul 24, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			it may well be the grip.   I am hooking / over drawing my driver something awful.   I cant seem to find a neutral grip.  I try weakening it and I can never find a middle ground.  I can weaken it so much but it just turns into a slice.

I am on the verge of seeking professional help. it is probably the easiest answer for both of us!
		
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Would say you are very probably over rotating the face through impact. 

The swing is making the clubhead approach the ball from the inside face open & between say 4 or so inches before contact & the 4 or so inches after the face is rotating open to closed in a very short distance. 

So dependent on your timing of this with various swings you''ll at best draw, but because it's a ways violent rotated club face through the impact area you'll overdraw, hook, & if very closed so also a ways heavily de-lofted, smother hook/duck hook.

Check some slow motion backswings to top & stop, & note where your right elbow is at top of your swing. 

Could well be that it's well back behind your body, so pretty deep behind you. 

What happens then is as you come down, the right elbow location as it comes back down to the delivery position is either at or towards the back part or your right hip, so still deep behind, right elbow stuck.

What this then does is force the right arm to shoot out from the inside which gives you higher hands through impact & everything is forced to rotate over so rotating the face heavily through the impact area in a very short time frame & amount of travel.

If this is happening you need to work to take the club back in front of your chest more in the backswing. 

So check point when left arm is horizontal to the ground & angle to shaft is around 90Âº your hand location is in front of the middle of your chest. 

So then on completion of the turn to top, your right elbow location won't be deeper behind your back, but a ways more in a location that's vertically below your right shoulder.

This will then mean that on starting transition from the leftside ground up first as you turn down to ball, your elbow at delivery (PP3) will be now a ways nicely in front of your right hip. With this there's now room for elbow & arms to swing they're not trapped so clear path to impact they are no forced to turn over any & raise up through impact.

So space for the arms/hands to get to impact on a swing path that's a lot nearer the 0Âº ball target line so the face is just moving naturally to square through impact, there's no heavy face rotation open to closed going on. Much more neutral face angle coming in to square through impact.


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## the_coach (Jul 24, 2014)

[video=youtube_share;kRkLDx8qVwM]http://youtu.be/kRkLDx8qVwM[/video]


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## garyinderry (Jul 25, 2014)

super video.   (one of) my main fault(s) in a nut shell!    top find coach! :thup:


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