# Supplementary Cards



## Garesfield ACE (Sep 10, 2012)

Anyone no if there is a proper ruling on how many Supp Cards you can put in per month?

Only thing I thought I read somewhere was your allowed 10 per season/year?

Cheers

Kev


----------



## Val (Sep 10, 2012)

Was sure it was 10 a year and are designed for players who wish to maintain an active handicap where they have little opportunity due to work etc to play medals.

Personally I feel they are over used to get handicaps cut by players who can't get cut in medal play.


----------



## rosecott (Sep 10, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Personally I feel they are over used to get handicaps cut by players who can't get cut in medal play.
		
Click to expand...

Any evidence to support your theory?


----------



## kmdmr1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Was sure it was 10 a year and are designed for players who wish to maintain an active handicap where they have little opportunity due to work etc to play medals.

Personally I feel they are over used to get handicaps cut by players who can't get cut in medal play.
		
Click to expand...

Why would a player get a cut playing in a supplementary rather than playing in a medal,they are exactly the same thing,only difference you can play in a supplementary whenever you feel, instead of waiting for your monthly medal.


----------



## Imurg (Sep 10, 2012)

kmdmr1 said:



			Why would a player get a cut playing in a supplementary rather than playing in a medal,they are exactly the same thing,only difference you can play in a supplementary whenever you feel, instead of waiting for your monthly medal.
		
Click to expand...

Because supposedly, having a "Medal" card in your hand makes a difference.

It shouldn't - it's a game of Golf and played under the same rules.


----------



## Val (Sep 10, 2012)

rosecott said:



			Any evidence to support your theory?
		
Click to expand...

Have seen it at my club, players play every Sat medal but still put in supplimentary cards which I feel is not what they are designed for.


----------



## Val (Sep 10, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Because supposedly, having a "Medal" card in your hand makes a difference.

It shouldn't - it's a game of Golf and played under the same rules.
		
Click to expand...

You answered my question. I have broken 80 at my club plenty times but never with a card in my hand? People get mentally bogged down in competition play.


----------



## kmdmr1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Because supposedly, having a "Medal" card in your hand makes a difference.

It shouldn't - it's a game of Golf and played under the same rules.
		
Click to expand...

You still have a card in your hand playing in a supplementary..


----------



## Imurg (Sep 10, 2012)

Valentino said:



			You answered my question. I have broken 80 at my club plenty times but never with a card in my hand? People get mentally bogged down in competition play.
		
Click to expand...




kmdmr1 said:



			You still have a card in your hand playing in a supplementary..
		
Click to expand...

Exactly - the only difference is what you make it.
It's in your head.
There's no difference at all.


----------



## Val (Sep 10, 2012)

kmdmr1 said:



			You still have a card in your hand playing in a supplementary..
		
Click to expand...

But the guys your playing with wont always therefore it becomes a more relaxed game mentally


----------



## Imurg (Sep 10, 2012)

But the outcome is the same regardless

Isn't this how you should play a Medal?


----------



## Farneyman (Sep 10, 2012)

I have commented on this before ,at our gaff I think you are only allowed to play supps to reactivate a lapsed handicap. Have been told this is should not be the case. Keep meaning to ask the handicap secretary.


----------



## Val (Sep 10, 2012)

Imurg said:



			But the outcome is the same regardless

Isn't this how you should play a Medal?
		
Click to expand...

What people should and what people do are two different things.

Your a cat 1, would you prefer to be there by performing well in comps and getting there on merit or by handing cards in whenever you feel like the form is good?


----------



## Ethan (Sep 10, 2012)

I view medals as chances to reduce my handicap. I view supplementary cards exactly the same. Interestingly, the supplementary is based on SSS and cannot change regardless of conditions, whereas in recent weeks at my place CSS has gone up more often than it has gone down, so the supplementary card has turned out to be a slightly tougher proposition.


----------



## Farneyman (Sep 10, 2012)

Can you only play supp cards at your home course or with members of your own course?


----------



## Val (Sep 10, 2012)

Farneyman said:



			Can you only play supp cards at your home course or with members of your own course?
		
Click to expand...

As far as I'm led to believe


----------



## Foxholer (Sep 10, 2012)

Farneyman said:



			Can you only play supp cards at your home course or with members of your own course?
		
Click to expand...

Yes.

But any qualifying comp (or Open) played at an 'away' club is the equivalent of a Supplementary.


----------



## Val (Sep 10, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Yes.

But any qualifying comp (or Open) played at an 'away' club is the equivalent of a Supplementary.
		
Click to expand...

No it's not, it's the equivalent of a medal as it has a proper CSS. Competition scores and supplimentary scores are completely different.


----------



## Garesfield ACE (Sep 10, 2012)

Ethan said:



			I view medals as chances to reduce my handicap. I view supplementary cards exactly the same. Interestingly, the supplementary is based on SSS and cannot change regardless of conditions, whereas in recent weeks at my place CSS has gone up more often than it has gone down, so the supplementary card has turned out to be a slightly tougher proposition.
		
Click to expand...

Cracking post Ethan.


----------



## BTatHome (Sep 10, 2012)

Cant understand why anyone would care if other people use supp cards to reduce their handicap. Afterall a person who can't perform in a medal is just adding funds to the winners prize


----------



## Colin L (Sep 10, 2012)

So according to Valentino,  a player who finds playing in a medal nerve-wracking, will be able to reduce his handicap more readily by putting in supplementary scores because this is a less stressful way of putting in a card.  So once he has reduced his handicap in this way,  he will then be able to enter the stressful arena of a medal competition where he is "going to get mentally bogged down" with a handicap he is even less likely to play to.  I miss the logic of that.


----------



## BTatHome (Sep 10, 2012)

If a rapidly improving golfer uses the supp card system to get further reductions (as there is only 1 medal a month) would this also be frowned upon?


----------



## palindromicbob (Sep 11, 2012)

BTatHome said:



			Cant understand why anyone would care if other people use supp cards to reduce their handicap. Afterall a person who can't perform in a medal is just adding funds to the winners prize 

Click to expand...

I'm with you here. One thing to be waving your errr rooster around boasting how low your handicap is, it's no use if you can't get it up when it counts.


----------



## rosecott (Sep 11, 2012)

Surely the bottom line is that the more qualifiers you play - supplementaries or otherwise - the truer a reflection of your playing ability your handicap becomes.


----------



## AmandaJR (Sep 11, 2012)

Ethan said:



			I view medals as chances to reduce my handicap. I view supplementary cards exactly the same. Interestingly, the supplementary is based on SSS and cannot change regardless of conditions, whereas in recent weeks at my place CSS has gone up more often than it has gone down, so the supplementary card has turned out to be a slightly tougher proposition.
		
Click to expand...

Same here. Our SSS is 72 but last few medals have had a CSS of 74.


----------



## Val (Sep 11, 2012)

Colin L said:



			So according to Valentino,  a player who finds playing in a medal nerve-wracking, will be able to reduce his handicap more readily by putting in supplementary scores because this is a less stressful way of putting in a card.  So once he has reduced his handicap in this way,  he will then be able to enter the stressful arena of a medal competition where he is "going to get mentally bogged down" with a handicap he is even less likely to play to.  I miss the logic of that.
		
Click to expand...

Exactly my point, my opinion is handicaps should come down in line with competition play however if you can't play enough comps to keep an active handicap then should you use supp cards.

My *OPINION* is supp cards are used to readily by some people who play enough comps to maintain an active handicap.


----------



## Colin L (Sep 11, 2012)

That's great.  I put forward a wee argument to show the illogicality of what you say and you think I am supporting your point.     I guess I need to make myself clearer.


----------



## bobmac (Sep 11, 2012)

Should your handicap be based on how you play in comps once a month or based on bounce games you play 2-3-4 times a week ?


----------



## Val (Sep 11, 2012)

Colin L said:



			That's great.  I put forward a wee argument to show the illogicality of what you say and you think I am supporting your point.     I guess I need to make myself clearer.
		
Click to expand...

What you need to do rather than try and argue my point illogical is tell us your thoughts on it. 

Mine is pretty clear, supplimentary cards should be for people who can't maintain an active competition handicap, not for those looking for a fast track way of getting their handicap down quickly to massage their own ego. If you want it down quick, play more comps


----------



## Val (Sep 11, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Should your handicap be based on how you play in comps once a month or based on bounce games you play 2-3-4 times a week ?
		
Click to expand...

Comps, as the course is at it's toughest from the medal tees which should be the best test of your ability.


----------



## bobmac (Sep 11, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Comps, as the course is at it's toughest from the medal tees which should be the best test of your ability.
		
Click to expand...

How about the guy who finds it difficult to score in medals and plays off 20 but can play off 10-12 in bounce games 2 or 3 times a week and hoovers up all the money. Should he put in Supp cards to get his h/cap down?


----------



## Val (Sep 11, 2012)

bobmac said:



			How about the guy who finds it difficult to score in medals and plays off 20 but can play off 10-12 in bounce games 2 or 3 times a week and hoovers up all the money. Should he put in Supp cards to get his h/cap down?
		
Click to expand...

I dont think so, he should play more comps. There is more than enough opens available in peoples areas for players to get 1 medal a week regardless.


----------



## AmandaJR (Sep 11, 2012)

I've only ever done 2 supp cards but for me having a card in hand that affects my handicap feels exactly the same whether it's a supp or comp. End result is the same as for me it's not about winning but scoring well with a qualifying card. Plus we play supps and comps of the medal plates so no difference in the course.

The advantages I can see are choosing your playing partner and the weather to be conducive to scoring well but if it were just that easy....


----------



## patricks148 (Sep 11, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Comps, as the course is at it's toughest from the medal tees which should be the best test of your ability.
		
Click to expand...

here, here.


----------



## bobmac (Sep 11, 2012)

How about the guy who has had lessons, practiced hard and can now play 8-10 shots under his h/cap. Should he wait till the comp and shoot nett 60 or hand in a supp card before the medal to get cut.


----------



## BTatHome (Sep 11, 2012)

bobmac said:



			How about the guy who has had lessons, practiced hard and can now play 8-10 shots under his h/cap. Should he wait till the comp and shoot nett 60 or hand in a supp card before the medal to get cut.
		
Click to expand...

No, he should go find an open and clean up there instead ... Much better prizes


----------



## Val (Sep 11, 2012)

AmandaJR said:



			The advantages I can see are choosing your playing partner and the weather to be conducive to scoring well but if it were just that easy....
		
Click to expand...

This is my largest issue, a supplimentary card should have no advantage at all.


----------



## Val (Sep 11, 2012)

bobmac said:



			How about the guy who has had lessons, practiced hard and can now play 8-10 shots under his h/cap. Should he wait till the comp and shoot nett 60 or hand in a supp card before the medal to get cut.
		
Click to expand...




BTatHome said:



			No, he should go find an open and clean up there instead ... Much better prizes 

Click to expand...

Beat me to it Brian.


----------



## AmandaJR (Sep 11, 2012)

Valentino said:



			This is my largest issue, a supplimentary card should have no advantage at all.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed but the one I submitted was against a SSS 2 less than our average CSS in medals so actually a disadvantage.

I'd rather see players submitting 10 supp cards in a year against those playing 3 comps badly in order to protect their handicap!


----------



## patricks148 (Sep 11, 2012)

AmandaJR said:



			Agreed but the one I submitted was against a SSS 2 less than our average CSS in medals so actually a disadvantage.

I'd rather see players submitting 10 supp cards in a year against those playing 3 comps badly in order to protect their handicap!
		
Click to expand...

so you can't put in 10 bad card to raise a handicap then?

I'm not in fav of the sup card business, if you can't play in 3 comps to keep your handicap fair enough, but most clubs run widweek  and weekend comps, if you can't play in those what the point having a handicap.

I hold a competition handicap, gained while playing comps, and though its handi for bounce games, it for comps.

I can't remember the details but didn't someone last year have a few good bounce games and just hand the cards in, got a massive cut?

I think what big Val is saying is that the current SC system it open to manipulation?


----------



## Colin L (Sep 11, 2012)

Valentino said:



			What you need to do rather than try and argue my point illogical is tell us your thoughts on it.
		
Click to expand...

Well, that _was_ my thought on it -  that what you were saying was illogical.  Your view is also based on what is probably a false premise - ie that putting in supplementary scores is a "fast track" to a lower handicap.  The supposition that somehow it is easier to score better than in a medal would need some evidence to support it: so far it has gained little to no support in this thread.  My thoughts on that have already been voiced: playing with a card to be marked is just the same to me in a medal or a supplementary and the supplementary can well be tougher since you are being measured against the SSS rather than a CSS which should reflect the relative difficulty of the conditions of the day.

And to be honest, I am bewildered by this concern.  Golf forums tend to be well stuffed with moans about bandits who protect their handicaps in order to succeed in match play competitions.  I'm not sure why we should be concerned about or criticise  anyone who wants to pursue the worthier aim of playing better and reducing his/her handicap by supplementing medal rounds or even by only putting in supplementaries.  As has been said, the more cards you submit the better a reflection your handicap is of your playing level.


----------



## rosecott (Sep 11, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Mine is pretty clear, supplimentary cards should be for people who can't maintain an active competition handicap, not for those looking for a fast track way of getting their handicap down quickly to massage their own ego. If you want it down quick, play more comps
		
Click to expand...

The system requires you to register, in advance, your intention to submit a Supplementary. You can only submit 10 in a year and the result from a Supplementary can only be no change to handicap, 0.1 increase, or an appropriate reduction. That to me doesn't seem like a very fast track way of getting your handicap down quickly. If every one of the 10 cards merited a handicap reduction (which I very much doubt would be the case), then the player obviously needs handicap reduction. Or are you suggesting that there is going to be something underhand with every Supplementary submission?


----------



## RGDave (Sep 11, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Because supposedly, having a "Medal" card in your hand makes a difference.

It shouldn't - it's a game of Golf and played under the same rules.
		
Click to expand...

Aha, but what if the tees are different. You can play supplementaries at mine up to 1 per week. You can play them off yellow, which makes a difference of *one* stroke to the SSS. One stroke cannot even begin to take into account the difference on 6 of our holes.


----------



## Achilles (Sep 11, 2012)

Colin L said:



			And to be honest, I am bewildered by this concern.  Golf forums tend to be well stuffed with moans about bandits who protect their handicaps in order to succeed in match play competitions.  I'm not sure why we should be concerned about or criticise  anyone who wants to pursue the worthier aim of playing better and reducing his/her handicap by supplementing medal rounds or even by only putting in supplementaries.  As has been said, the more cards you submit the better a reflection your handicap is of your playing level.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more! :thup:


----------



## Val (Sep 11, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			so you can't put in 10 bad card to raise a handicap then?

I'm not in fav of the sup card business, if you can't play in 3 comps to keep your handicap fair enough, but most clubs run widweek  and weekend comps, if you can't play in those what the point having a handicap.

I hold a competition handicap, gained while playing comps, and though its handi for bounce games, it for comps.

I can't remember the details but didn't someone last year have a few good bounce games and just hand the cards in, got a massive cut?

I think what big Val is saying is that the current SC system it open to manipulation?
		
Click to expand...

What I'm saying more than anything is I feel supp cards should ONLY be used by players who can't maintain an active handicap due to work or other commitments


----------



## BTatHome (Sep 11, 2012)

RGDave said:



			Aha, but what if the tees are different. You can play supplementaries at mine up to 1 per week. You can play them off yellow, which makes a difference of *one* stroke to the SSS. One stroke cannot even begin to take into account the difference on 6 of our holes.
		
Click to expand...

If your course is measured and ratified to be acceptable for a qualifier off the yellows then there should be no issue. If not then you can't put in a supplementary off them.


----------



## rosecott (Sep 11, 2012)

RGDave said:



			You can play supplementaries at mine up to 1 per week.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, but only 10 per year.


----------



## beggsy (Sep 11, 2012)

You also can get 0.1 back for a supplementary card aswel


----------



## rosecott (Sep 11, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			I can't remember the details but didn't someone last year have a few good bounce games and just hand the cards in, got a massive cut?
		
Click to expand...

A different argument, Patrick. Supplementaries have to be notified in advance of playing so there is some pressure of going up instead of down. Submitting cards from bounce games - if you happened to have played well - is, for me, a complete no-no. Would all the bad bounce games also be submitted?


----------



## rosecott (Sep 11, 2012)

Valentino said:



			What I'm saying more than anything is I feel supp cards should ONLY be used by players who can't maintain an active handicap due to work or other commitments
		
Click to expand...

And how would you police that? (hope your not a policeman).


----------



## Ethan (Sep 12, 2012)

RGDave said:



			Aha, but what if the tees are different. You can play supplementaries at mine up to 1 per week. You can play them off yellow, which makes a difference of *one* stroke to the SSS. One stroke cannot even begin to take into account the difference on 6 of our holes.
		
Click to expand...

That is a fault of the SSS system, not supplementary cards.


----------



## Val (Sep 12, 2012)

rosecott said:



			And how would you police that? (hope your not a policeman).
		
Click to expand...

Well you have to declare you are playing one before you go, it's straight forward enough to see if someone has an active handicap before hand.


----------



## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Well you have to declare you are playing one before you go, it's straight forward enough to see if someone has an active handicap before hand.
		
Click to expand...

So, if the guy was currently active but was seeking to submit 3 qualifiers this year to remain active next year, you would turn him away.


----------



## Val (Sep 12, 2012)

rosecott said:



			So, if the guy was currently active but was seeking to submit 3 qualifiers this year to remain active next year, you would turn him away.
		
Click to expand...

Only if he had no way in remaining active through competition golf at his club, ie not enough medals left for him to play 3.

Check the attached snip from the Congu Handicap doc, it details their reason for introducing them.


----------



## rosecott (Sep 12, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Only if he had no way in remaining active through competition golf at his club, ie not enough medals left for him to play 3.

Check the attached snip from the Congu Handicap doc, it details their reason for introducing them.
		
Click to expand...

I know the CONGU handicap manual - nearly off by heart.

You say no problem as long as there are enough medals left for him to play in 3. If you read the clip you highlight, you will see that it seeks to help players having difficulty playing in qualifiers for a variety of reasons such as work/family commitments and - as happens at many clubs - difficulty in getting a tee-time on weekend comps which fits in with life outside golf.


----------



## Val (Sep 12, 2012)

rosecott said:



			I know the CONGU handicap manual - nearly off by heart.

You say no problem as long as there are enough medals left for him to play in 3. If you read the clip you highlight, you will see that it seeks to *help players having difficulty playing in qualifiers* for a variety of reasons such as work/family commitments and - as happens at many clubs - difficulty in getting a tee-time on weekend comps which fits in with life outside golf.
		
Click to expand...

I know that and it's my point all along, as far as im concerned it should only be for people who struggle to play medals not for people who play plenty medals and look for other ways to get a cut.


----------

