# Robin Matthews-Williams



## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2018)

Stumbled across this guy's channel and found myself watching quite a few of his videos. He will definitely polarise opinion on this forum I'm sure. I found myself inclined to agree with a lot of the things he says. Particularly on people confusing themselves with vast amounts of swing thoughts. He seems to advocate 'feeling the weight of the club' and finding your own natural swing - using techniques such as the 'no look shot'. 

Here is the link - I wouldn't play the vids out loud if in polite company as he swears like a trooper - not something that bothers me but some of you have more sensitive ears.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmob9ihv8izaukO2JlSI0hA

This video might be a decent place to start, it kind of sums up what he's about I think:





I haven't yet tried the methods he puts forward, but I intend to at some point just so I can see for myself. He has videos and testimonies where it has worked for people. I think he is trying to create a bit of an edgy persona to stand out of course, but there are also plenty of truths in there. He has some scathing words about the PGA, and other YouTube golf channels. He has held my attention if nothing else.

What do you reckon? Any merit in the things he says or just a guy who likes his own voice? (Perhaps both.)


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## Jacko_G (Dec 13, 2018)

There is quite a lot of this "stuff" out there. Danny Willet "decluttered" his head/swing thought process.

Natural Golf
Instinctive golf

Google will bring up hits on those, no harm in looking and "exploring" this process.


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## Depreston (Dec 13, 2018)

He signed up to this forum a couple of weeks ago iirc


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## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2018)

Depreston said:



			He signed up to this forum a couple of weeks ago iirc
		
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Yeah I spotted that when I search to see if someone had already made a thread. I wasn't going to mention it though in case it caused anyone to modify their views in the knowledge that he might see it.  (I'm sure they wouldn't.) I don't think he's posted again since that day anyway though.


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## Rlburnside (Dec 13, 2018)

Yea I quite enjoyed that ,seen hitting ball without looking before. 

Biggest thing to take away from that is donâ€™t think to much.


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## OnTour (Dec 13, 2018)

I like the content and have zero time for mars bar sellers who want Â£30-Â£50 an hour to teach. good luck if you can scam that price out of people. at least RMW gives the view from the inside and now the out !! helped me gain some confidence again after a shocking year !!! 4.8 to 7


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## Rlburnside (Dec 13, 2018)

Just had another look that is actually the same video that I watched a few weeks ago, I tried hitting without looking before I played a round only tried it 3 times but didnâ€™t connect with any, but I like the concept of just swinging right to left and holding the club very light.


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## Depreston (Dec 13, 2018)

I can definitely relate to hitting at the ball rather than swinging through it


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## Wolf (Dec 13, 2018)

Might have to give this guy a watch whilst I'm bored at work later


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## Orikoru (Dec 13, 2018)

Wolf said:



			Might have to give this guy a watch whilst I'm bored at work later
		
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Whether you agree with him or not, I find him quite forthright and engaging.


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## user104 (Dec 13, 2018)

Very interesting, gonna try the right foot left thing.


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## inc0gnito (Dec 13, 2018)

Iâ€™ve seen one or two of his vids but unsubscribed. Havenâ€™t watched many of his vids but he comes across as a bit of a twat, and self proclaimed Messiah. If he reigned in his holier than though attitude he would be more palatable. And although I donâ€™t care about swearing, he gets on like a schoolboy trying to impress his mates.


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## Jacko_G (Dec 13, 2018)

inc0gnito said:



			Iâ€™ve seen one or two of his vids but unsubscribed. Havenâ€™t watched many of his vids but he comes across as a bit of a twat, and self proclaimed Messiah. If he reigned in his holier than though attitude he would be more palatable. And although I donâ€™t care about swearing, he gets on like a schoolboy trying to impress his mates.
		
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Wasn't very impressed with the one with the "chick"

Very staged and "hammed up".

If you like the natural golf stuff there are people out there that perhaps "come across better".

I'm not going to knock the guy and what he believes in as what he teaches and believes in May help golfers and I do believe their is some merit in what he preaches, also just not a fan of how he does it.


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## Wolf (Dec 13, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Whether you agree with him or not, I find him quite forthright and engaging.
		
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Ok so having watched that video I found him a little irritating. His ideas are sound and I love the simplification of things idea and could get more from that but the incessant swearing without proper or decent context just detracts from what he is trying to get across. I can swear with the best of them and I'm not slightly offended by it, but it hugely dilutes his valid points and watch ability for so street cred...


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## Orikoru (Dec 14, 2018)

Wolf said:



			Ok so having watched that video I found him a little irritating. His ideas are sound and I love the simplification of things idea and could get more from that but the incessant swearing without proper or decent context just detracts from what he is trying to get across. I can swear with the best of them and I'm not slightly offended by it, but it hugely dilutes his valid points and watch ability for so street cred...
		
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That's fair enough. The swearing doesn't phase me at all as my group of mates will probably swear just as much, so it goes over my head. I think it's just him being as natural as possible, but I get that some would see it as excessive. Like you, I'm intrigued by the theories he's putting forward.


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## Sweep (Dec 14, 2018)

If I were him, I would be pretty fed up with that plane that kept flying overhead.
I tried the not looking thing a while back too. Didnâ€™t work for me, but I will give him a watch.


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## Blue in Munich (Dec 14, 2018)

I can see why some people might like him but he comes across as a complete and utter arse for me.


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## Dogma (Dec 14, 2018)

Tried it for about 150 balls out of curiosity a few months ago.

Resulted in hitting them flush but with a massive hook.

Not for me Iâ€™m afraid but I can understand how it would benefit some people.

Not too sure on him attacking other YouTubers though if Iâ€™m honest. Think thatâ€™s a bit off, especially in the manner he does it.


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## Kellfire (Dec 14, 2018)

Jacko_G said:



			Wasn't very impressed with the one with the "chick"

Very staged and "hammed up".

If you like the natural golf stuff there are people out there that perhaps "come across better".

I'm not going to knock the guy and what he believes in as what he teaches and believes in May help golfers and I do believe their is some merit in what he preaches, also just not a fan of how he does it.
		
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Yep.


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## virtuocity (Dec 14, 2018)

graphite1205 said:



			Very interesting, gonna try the right foot left thing.

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What is that?


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## cliveb (Dec 14, 2018)

Unless I've misunderstood, he claims to be an assistant PGA professional but admits he has trouble breaking 80. That isn't exactly a good advert for his methods, is it?


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## Sweep (Dec 14, 2018)

I had a look at some of his YouTube stuff last night. Itâ€™s very interesting and I do believe most golfers who have played for any length of time lose a certain amount of feel and freedom by trying to follow instruction on set up, swing plane etc. He is quite right for example when he says for a beginner the short game is the easiest bit, just chipping it 20â€™ is no problem. Once you have been playing a while you can drive it 250yds but that chip becomes all but impossible. The feel has been lost.
That said though, I did try the not looking thing a few weeks ago and it didnâ€™t really work. Maybe I didnâ€™t trust it enough or didnâ€™t give it a chance.
I was helped a while back when I read this article https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...4/frustrated-golfer-syndrome-causes-and-cures
In particular, this comment _â€œthe primary difference between a professional and an amateur golfer lies in the extraordinary awareness of the professional, an awareness of body, club and target.â€_
So maybe Robin can flush it so well without looking because he is naturally a good player with a very high awareness of where the club head is.
So the question is, should I and others like me take the time and trouble to learn the â€œno look shotâ€ or concentrate more on my current lesson of preventing early extension and keeping my head still, which to be fair is pretty well proven? Robin himself says he isnâ€™t playing much golf right now and the other pro who was teaching the â€œno look shotâ€ admitted he didnâ€™t use it on the course. On the other hand I can see why playing more instinctively and with feel would be a huge benefit and surely learning this would help in that regard?


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 14, 2018)

Dogma said:



			Tried it for about 150 balls out of curiosity a few months ago.

Resulted in hitting them flush but with a massive hook.

Not for me Iâ€™m afraid but I can understand how it would benefit some people.

Not too sure on him attacking other YouTubers though if Iâ€™m honest. Think thatâ€™s a bit off, especially in the manner he does it.
		
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We have a lady golfer at ours who hits the ball without looking. She is a tennis coach by day, when she plays to hit the golf ball, she closes her eyes and looks away during the back swing, and doesn't reopen until she's hit the ball, which usually goes straight up the middle.


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## OLgolfer (Dec 14, 2018)

He seems to spend half his time criticising and attacking others to get attention.

You donâ€™t build the biggest tower in town by knocking down others...

Much better content out there


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## xreyuk (Dec 14, 2018)

His content is crap.


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## Jacko_G (Dec 14, 2018)

xreyuk said:



			His content is crap.
		
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Go on, tell us what you really think.

ðŸ˜‚


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## bigslice (Dec 15, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			What is that?
		
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My understanding is you put your right foot in your right foot out in out in out shake it all about. I may be wrongðŸ˜‚


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## chellie (Dec 15, 2018)

Think the swearing is put on. I was more put off by his shorts


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## TheDork (Dec 15, 2018)

I've just watched his latest vid, he talks a lot of sense if you actually listen to what he says about the clubs we use/buy and I guess he'll be stirring the pot a fair bit but unfortunately for him the corporate YT'ers will always be where the money is.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 15, 2018)

Not a fan. Only watched his first few videos, Youtube almost forced me to with the amount of times his content was displayed in my recommended (wonder how much he paid for that?), and I thought it was the Golfing Youtube equivalent of The Kardashians. Doesn't say anything of any worth that hasn't been said before and covers over that fact with constant camera cuts and angle changes to keep it "interesting". It's exactly the same thing trash TV shows do to keep you watching, if you were forced to listen to them sat talking in a room for 20 minutes you'd switch off so they have to keep it interesting somehow. He then also distracts from the fact he's not saying anything and repeating himself by constantly swearing. Definitely not a channel I would choose to actively watch.


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## popeye (Dec 15, 2018)

OnTour said:



			I like the content and have zero time for mars bar sellers who want Â£30-Â£50 an hour to teach. good luck if you can scam that price out of people.
		
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 Apparently for a mere Â£150 quid he will come down to your local range to walk you through the no look shot.


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## Dasit (Dec 17, 2018)

Youtube is a great platform because people can try new things


So many cookie cutter channels good to have a fresh approach


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## Orikoru (Dec 20, 2018)

Got to be honest, I really like the guy now. He regularly takes the mick out of some of the more ridiculous training aids and videos, and not that I don't think those other things have their place, it's just the way he does it makes me laugh. I think there's a place for a character like him in golf so probably a good thing overall. You never know, if he can help shed the supposed 'stuffy' image of golf then he might be doing good things for golf generally.

This one I thought was hilarious to be fair.
click here

I mean, that sort of thing deserves to be ridiculed. Imagine telling people with a straight face that wiggling around in a chair will improve their golf.

[Embedded image removed, linked instead. Brendy]


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## Imurg (Dec 20, 2018)

Watched half of one of his videos.
Nope,sorry.....attention seeking doesn't quite do it justice.
Shan't be watching any more.


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## OnTour (Jan 5, 2019)

popeye said:



			Apparently for a mere Â£150 quid he will come down to your local range to walk you through the no look shot.
		
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i DON'T BOTHER looking after I hit it these days anyway.


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## howbow88 (Jan 6, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			You never know, if he can help shed the supposed 'stuffy' image of golf then he might be doing good things for golf generally.

This one I thought was hilarious to be fair.
click here

I mean, that sort of thing deserves to be ridiculed. Imagine telling people with a straight face that wiggling around in a chair will improve their golf.
		
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Fair play to him.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

His content is poor at best, not that keen on a lot of the main YouTube pros, really don't know how shields and finch became GM top coaches when they have nothing of significance on their coaching CV's, they have YouTube followers but that's about it, their audience wasn't even built up through instructional videos so obviously just a PR stunt by GM. There are a few guys who know what they are talking about on YouTube, but as a whole it's a minefield of info and there's lots more bad advice than good advice. I'd always recommend going to see a well known proven coach to get advice from and if they recommend watching content it will probably be worth listening to


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## Orikoru (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			His content is poor at best, not that keen on a lot of the main YouTube pros, really don't know how shields and finch became GM top coaches when they have nothing of significance on their coaching CV's, they have YouTube followers but that's about it, their audience wasn't even built up through instructional videos so obviously just a PR stunt by GM. There are a few guys who know what they are talking about on YouTube, but as a whole it's a minefield of info and there's lots more bad advice than good advice. I'd always recommend going to see a well known proven coach to get advice from and if they recommend watching content it will probably be worth listening to
		
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It seems like you've misunderstood RMW a bit. I'm not sure he's out there to rival others' coaching advice. More just to provide a different view on golf generally, call a spade a spade and cut through the BS really. He has done some coaching-type content but there's a large quantity of his videos that aren't that.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

He isn't calling a spade a spade though, he talks complete bs and his content is terrible. I know plenty of low handicap (plus handicaps) like myself who have no interest in turning pro but actually wind local pros up because we beat them like a drum, honestly there are lots of good pros about I can name quite a few around the central belt of Scotland. For every good one though who was actually a decent player you get Muppets who get to a 4 or 3 hcap and become an assistant, it devalues the pga pro in my view. They should at highest have held a handicap of 2 for a season to become a teaching pro IMHO


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## Tiger man (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			He isn't calling a spade a spade though, he talks complete bs and his content is terrible. I know plenty of low handicap (plus handicaps) like myself who have no interest in turning pro but actually wind local pros up because we beat them like a drum, honestly there are lots of good pros about I can name quite a few around the central belt of Scotland. For every good one though who was actually a decent player you get Muppets who get to a 4 or 3 hcap and become an assistant, it devalues the pga pro in my view. They should at highest have held a handicap of 2 for a season to become a teaching pro IMHO
		
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Think you are a bit wide of the mark there, the best players don't automatically make the best coaches. I really think a handicap has no bearing on a coach, if you can pass the teaching tests and prove you have the depth of knowledge to teach, what has your golf ability got to do with it? You may be physically impaired but have an amazing eye for teaching and never get the chance because you can't play sub 75 golf.


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## tugglesf239 (Jan 6, 2019)

Fist magnet


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

Tiger man said:



			Think you are a bit wide of the mark there, the best players don't automatically make the best coaches. I really think a handicap has no bearing on a coach, if you can pass the teaching tests and prove you have the depth of knowledge to teach, what has your golf ability got to do with it? You may be physically impaired but have an amazing eye for teaching and never get the chance because you can't play sub 75 golf.
		
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Really disagree with you, i agree hcap has no bearing on ability to understand swing concepts and communication skills, though youd really ideally want people who have played high level amateur golf have experience in playing at a good level and also have good oratory skills. More often than not, very good golfers will have had a lot of lessons off quite a few people so that's a lot of info and thought in itself, there are low guys who are self taught and don't really have any thought on mechanics but just get it round,  they can turn pro but probably not going to make the best teachers as they can't teach the method they use. I got down to 2 without taking a lesson but had to start taking lessons to get better, i didn't really have a clue about the swing just used to play by feel and by changing setup


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## Grant85 (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Really disagree with you, i agree hcap has no bearing on ability to understand swing concepts and communication skills, though youd really ideally want people who have played high level amateur golf have experience in playing at a good level and also have good oratory skills. More often than not, very good golfers will have had a lot of lessons off quite a few people so that's a lot of info and thought in itself, there are low guys who are self taught and don't really have any thought on mechanics but just get it round,  they can turn pro but probably not going to make the best teachers as they can't teach the method they use. I got down to 2 without taking a lesson but had to start taking lessons to get better, i didn't really have a clue about the swing just used to play by feel and by changing setup
		
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I appreciate that most teaching pros have been competent players and played competitive golf. I think the minimum handicap to turn â€˜proâ€™ and sit your exams is 4, but may be reduced now.

However personally wouldnâ€™t place a great deal of emphasis on someoneâ€™s playing prowess or golfing ability as a teaching pro. Theyâ€™ve obviously met the requirements to become a pro, but itâ€™s far more important that they are good teachers, listeners and communicators, that they understand swing fundamentals as well as chipping and putting mechanics. 

At the end of the day, if a pro was really good at golf, then he wouldnâ€™t be teaching 18 handicappers & selling mars bars. Pros generally have had a journey before they get into teaching, have had a few battle scars and good teaching pros will play very little competitive golf.


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## Capella (Jan 6, 2019)

YouTube kept suggesting his videos to me for a while (and also, he kind of attacked Rob McGarr, another YouTuber, who I really like), so I did try to watch a few of his videos to see what he was all about. It is rare that I give thumbs down on YouTube (because I think every creative effort should be applauded, usually), but this guy really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm German, we are famous for using foul language and cursing, and I normally really don't mind (actually, I think it is even kind of charming when my 73 year old mum suddenly bursts out in a tirade of four letter words in the middle of a round), but this guy really goes a bit inflationary with the language. He sounds like Eddie Murphy on a bad day. Maybe I'm just too old to fall into his target group.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			I appreciate that most teaching pros have been competent players and played competitive golf. I think the minimum handicap to turn â€˜proâ€™ and sit your exams is 4, but may be reduced now.

However personally wouldnâ€™t place a great deal of emphasis on someoneâ€™s playing prowess or golfing ability as a teaching pro. Theyâ€™ve obviously met the requirements to become a pro, but itâ€™s far more important that they are good teachers, listeners and communicators, that they understand swing fundamentals as well as chipping and putting mechanics.

At the end of the day, if a pro was really good at golf, then he wouldnâ€™t be teaching 18 handicappers & selling mars bars. Pros generally have had a journey before they get into teaching, have had a few battle scars and good teaching pros will play very little competitive golf.
		
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You can do the pga training off a 4.4 hcap which is a joke if you ask me, it should be 2.4 and you should have played to that for a minimum number of hcap qualifying events. The pga pro is being devalued by too many guys who arnt very good, and the fact people call a lot of them mars bar sellers says it all really. The PGA may just be worried the numbers wouldn't be there if the hcap was reduced, it would however bring a bit of value back by making it a bit more testing. Also you wouldn't get numpties like this Robin Mathew guy who can't break 80, which would be a bonus


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## Tiger man (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			Really disagree with you, i agree hcap has no bearing on ability to understand swing concepts and communication skills, though youd really ideally want people who have played high level amateur golf have experience in playing at a good level and also have good oratory skills. More often than not, very good golfers will have had a lot of lessons off quite a few people so that's a lot of info and thought in itself, there are low guys who are self taught and don't really have any thought on mechanics but just get it round,  they can turn pro but probably not going to make the best teachers as they can't teach the method they use. I got down to 2 without taking a lesson but had to start taking lessons to get better, i didn't really have a clue about the swing just used to play by feel and by changing setup
		
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But getting to a low handicap has a lot to it, natural physical abilities, time, often opportunities to receive good coaching as a youth so parents wallet, mental strength under pressure, may be as thick as two short planks and only know their own swing. Ideally the coach would have been a good player for peace of mind that he/she knows what they are doing but plenty of top coaches are not the best players.


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## Grant85 (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			You can do the pga training off a 4.4 hcap which is a joke if you ask me, it should be 2.4 and you should have played to that for a minimum number of hcap qualifying events. The pga pro is being devalued by too many guys who arnt very good, and the fact people call a lot of them mars bar sellers says it all really. The PGA may just be worried the numbers wouldn't be there if the hcap was reduced, it would however bring a bit of value back by making it a bit more testing. Also you wouldn't get numpties like this Robin Mathew guy who can't break 80, which would be a bonus
		
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Weâ€™ll have to agree to disagree. 

Look at football, top coaches like Mourinho and Wenger didnâ€™t play pro football. And others like Jurgen Klopp and Neil Warnock werenâ€™t exactly household names as players. All successful coaches with long careers as manager.

Teaching elite sport is totally different from playing elite sport and I donâ€™t think any other sport places requirements on itâ€™s coaches that they have to have played or competed to a certain level.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2019)

Capella said:



			YouTube kept suggesting his videos to me for a while (and also, he kind of attacked Rob McGarr, another YouTuber, who I really like), so I did try to watch a few of his videos to see what he was all about.
		
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I thought he was totally out of order with his tirade at Rob. Like you I watched a couple out of interest but I really can't find anything I enjoyed and his delivery left me cold. However he's doing well enough on youtube so must be doing something right for the wider viewing public


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

Tiger man said:



			But getting to a low handicap has a lot to it, natural physical abilities, time, often opportunities to receive good coaching as a youth so parents wallet, mental strength under pressure, may be as thick as two short planks and only know their own swing. Ideally the coach would have been a good player for peace of mind that he/she knows what they are doing but plenty of top coaches are not the best players.
		
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A bit like saying just let anybody willing to learn the retail side and do a few coaching courses become a pga pro, would you really have that much confidence taking lessons off someone you know wasn't all that competent as a player ? I wouldn't


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Weâ€™ll have to agree to disagree.

Look at football, top coaches like Mourinho and Wenger didnâ€™t play pro football. And others like Jurgen Klopp and Neil Warnock werenâ€™t exactly household names as players. All successful coaches with long careers as manager.

Teaching elite sport is totally different from playing elite sport and I donâ€™t think any other sport places requirements on itâ€™s coaches that they have to have played or competed to a certain level.
		
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I am with you. A lot of good teaching pros never made it as top player. The PGA exams are far more than playing to a good level but the person is still required to meet a set level of performance as part of the qualification


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I am with you. A lot of good teaching pros never made it as top player. The PGA exams are far more than playing to a good level but the person is still required to meet a set level of performance as part of the qualification
		
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If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants


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## Tiger man (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			A bit like saying just let anybody willing to learn the retail side and do a few coaching courses become a pga pro, would you really have that much confidence taking lessons off someone you know wasn't all that competent as a player ? I wouldn't
		
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I can totally understand your point of view and respect that, however I would let their reputation as a coach, not as a player, be my main criteria.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants
		
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Can I ask who you go to for lessons, why and what your thought process was? 

Just curious


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants
		
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Bottom line is they all have to meet a set requirement in all aspects of the curriculum to pass. It's like any exam though, you set a pass mark at some point. How many actually take the PGA course per year? I'd say not that many, especially when you look at the number of vacancies at clubs around the country. I know a number of pros we've had at my club over the years that would never have made money playing, but have focused on developing a reputation as a good teaching pro and being the best teachers they can be. For my tuppence worth, as long as they are PGA qualified and are able to teach me in a way I understand, explain why they are making the changes and we have a two way rapport, and more importantly I can see progress in my game that's all I look for


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Can I ask who you go to for lessons, why and what your thought process was?

Just curious[/QUOTE
		
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I got to Alan White over at lanark, hes the chairman of the PGA of GB&I . Ended up going to him after feeling like the guy i was going to wasnt really offering me much in the way of useful feedback anymore, i spoke to a good friend of mines about it and he suggested Alan so off I went


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## Homer (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			If you refer to the playability test, it is a farce, i have heard all about it from many participants
		
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Whatâ€™s the playability test?


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

Homer said:



			Whatâ€™s the playability test?
		
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 you play a round of golf to a set 'standard' which isn't all that high


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## Homer (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			you play a round of golf to a set 'standard' which isn't all that high
		
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Whatâ€™s the standard?


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

It's all on the pga website if you want to know all the details


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jan 6, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bottom line is they all have to meet a set requirement in all aspects of the curriculum to pass. It's like any exam though, you set a pass mark at some point. How many actually take the PGA course per year? I'd say not that many, especially when you look at the number of vacancies at clubs around the country. I know a number of pros we've had at my club over the years that would never have made money playing, but have focused on developing a reputation as a good teaching pro and being the best teachers they can be. For my tuppence worth, as long as they are PGA qualified and are able to teach me in a way I understand, explain why they are making the changes and we have a two way rapport, and more importantly I can see progress in my game that's all I look for
		
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Plenty of guys knocking about that have never made any money playing that can still knock it round 5 or 6 under par.

I get the point they don't necessarily have to be a fantastic player to be a good coach but I don't want someone showing me how to hit a shot thats a lesser player than me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 6, 2019)

saving_par said:



			Plenty of guys knocking about that have never made any money playing that can still knock it round 5 or 6 under par.

I get the point they don't necessarily have to be a fantastic player to be a good coach but I don't want someone showing me how to hit a shot thats a lesser player than me.
		
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I'd argue if they are still capable of shooting those scores they'd be playing even if it's the local pro-am circuits. I know a couple of really good teaching pro's locally that probably wouldn't shoot better than level par these days as they simply don't play enough but I'd trust their input on the swing. For me, someone knowing the swing and being able to teach is what I'm interested in, not what their playing credential are like. As has been said, a lot of top teaching pros have never been good enough to cut it as players or even tried to make it


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## Parsaregood (Jan 6, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'd argue if they are still capable of shooting those scores they'd be playing even if it's the local pro-am circuits. I know a couple of really good teaching pro's locally that probably wouldn't shoot better than level par these days as they simply don't play enough but I'd trust their input on the swing. For me, someone knowing the swing and being able to teach is what I'm interested in, not what their playing credential are like. As has been said, a lot of top teaching pros have never been good enough to cut it as players or even tried to make it
		
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It's different if you had the ability at one time or another to never having the ability, just because you wernt a top tour pro does not mean you were not a great player in your own right, plenty of guys on the challenge tour and mini tours are really fantastic golfers. Point being if you can hardly hack it around your own course, is that really a standard that should be accepted of a pga pro


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## Jacko_G (Jan 6, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			It's different if you had the ability at one time or another to never having the ability, just because you wernt a top tour pro does not mean you were not a great player in your own right, plenty of guys on the challenge tour and mini tours are really fantastic golfers. Point being if you can hardly hack it around your own course, is that really a standard that should be accepted of a pga pro
		
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I'm not totally disagreeing with you but spotting a deficiency or a flaw in a student's game and explaining how to rectify it can sometimes be easier than working on your own game. 

I do appreciate where you are coming from but I'm not necessarily convinced it's the correct attitude. I can think of a couple of teaching professionals based at a range who have great reputations as teachers but we're never "top" amateur golfers.

Like all discussions I guess there is no "correct" answer. Just different points of view.


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## Wolf (Jan 7, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			It's different if you had the ability at one time or another to never having the ability, just because you wernt a top tour pro does not mean you were not a great player in your own right, plenty of guys on the challenge tour and mini tours are really fantastic golfers. Point being if you can hardly hack it around your own course, is that really a standard that should be accepted of a pga pro
		
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So having read a few of your posts some referring to a 2 handicap and others to a challenge tour/mini tour level I'm wondering what you think is an acceptable level. Because not all those that can play to that level have the desire to teach, you yourself mention how low you got and don't want to become a pro so there will be many alike that realise they are good but not quite good enough to earn a living playing and have no desire to become a teacher. I can cite a few examples I know personally to have got to scratch, better than scratch and to the level of a 2 handicap you mention yourself that none have turned pro as they have no interest in teaching, business or even have the skills to do these things.

Likewise there will be those of a decent level sub 4 handicap that are good orators, have an affinity for learning and teaching and wish to help others but by what your saying is they shouldn't be allowed to teach, despite having a lot to offer others.

The majority of club golfers will never achieve a Cat 1 handicap let alone be capable of breaking par regularly. Most will be in the Cat 3 & 4 range and by going to someone that has achieved PGA status and spent years studying the game will improve with their assistance.

Then there's the Mars bar seller argument which I know you only quoted and didn't directly infer yourself but I do find when I've heard people say this to be completely disrespectful and usually comes from people with a complete lack of understanding what these guys do to qualify , these guys have gone out studied the game and business to earn a living helping clubs to continue running, being there for members to make sure competitions run, helping them with their games and so much more.

Imagine if these guys off their 4 handicaps that pass the PAT and study a 3 year degree course to become qualified were stopped  from being eligible to be PGA Pros there would soon become a real lack of club pro entering the game and then clubs would not be in a great situation. Because as back to my original point not all those that go low are bothered by becoming professional.

Admittedly like all areas of life some of those qualified will be good at what they do and others won't, also many that qualify do so to get into club management and other areas not just teaching.

When you go to these people for help you are not paying for their ability to burn up the course because you'll find most once qualified have less time to practice than they had before due to running a business, but what you are paying for is their knowledge of swing mechanics and assistance on how to translate things into your own game.

I completely respect your opinion as we're all entitled to different view points. But imo the PGA have the balance right and the more we can get these guys and Girls into PGA positions then the game will continue in good fashion, the more we restirct them then the harder it will be in future to attract them.

Edit: what I definitely will agree on is RMW does not in my opinion portray the PGA Pro in a good light, comes across as obnoxious, uses profane language to try to make himself seem cool and put down others. People like him will appeal to a few for a little while then disappear once they realise they've ostracised themselves amongst their peers


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## Parsaregood (Jan 7, 2019)

Wolf said:



			So having read a few of your posts some referring to a 2 handicap and others to a challenge tour/mini tour level I'm wondering what you think is an acceptable level. Because not all those that can play to that level have the desire to teach, you yourself mention how low you got and don't want to become a pro so there will be many alike that realise they are good but not quite good enough to earn a living playing and have no desire to become a teacher. I can cite a few examples I know personally to have got to scratch, better than scratch and to the level of a 2 handicap you mention yourself that none have turned pro as they have no interest in teaching, business or even have the skills to do these things.

Likewise there will be those of a decent level sub 4 handicap that are good orators, have an affinity for learning and teaching and wish to help others but by what your saying is they shouldn't be allowed to teach, despite having a lot to offer others.

The majority of club golfers will never achieve a Cat 1 handicap let alone be capable of breaking par regularly. Most will be in the Cat 3 & 4 range and by going to someone that has achieved PGA status and spent years studying the game will improve with their assistance.

Then there's the Mars bar seller argument which I know you only quoted and didn't directly infer yourself but I do find when I've heard people say this to be completely disrespectful and usually comes from people with a complete lack of understanding what these guys do to qualify , these guys have gone out studied the game and business to earn a living helping clubs to continue running, being there for members to make sure competitions run, helping them with their games and so much more.

Imagine if these guys off their 4 handicaps that pass the PAT and study a 3 year degree course to become qualified were stopped  from being eligible to be PGA Pros there would soon become a real lack of club pro entering the game and then clubs would not be in a great situation. Because as back to my original point not all those that go low are bothered by becoming professional.

Admittedly like all areas of life some of those qualified will be good at what they do and others won't, also many that qualify do so to get into club management and other areas not just teaching.

When you go to these people for help you are not paying for their ability to burn up the course because you'll find most once qualified have less time to practice than they had before due to running a business, but what you are paying for is their knowledge of swing mechanics and assistance on how to translate things into your own game.

I completely respect your opinion as we're all entitled to different view points. But imo the PGA have the balance right and the more we can get these guys and Girls into PGA positions then the game will continue in good fashion, the more we restirct them then the harder it will be in future to attract them.

Edit: what I definitely will agree on is RMW does not in my opinion portray the PGA Pro in a good light, comes across as obnoxious, uses profane language to try to make himself seem cool and put down others. People like him will appeal to a few for a little while then disappear once they realise they've ostracised themselves amongst their peers
		
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I think having the ability to hold a 2 hcap through a minimum number of events say 10 would be a good base point. I just personally think it's too easy to become a pga pro and you now see a lot of guys just doing it because it's another job and not really because they love the game. There has to be a competence level and playing off 4.4 for me is not competent enough to warrant my respect as a student of the game regardless of how good at the retail or business aspect they may be.
 I wasted my teen years in a golfing respect, didn't play golf, took it up again when I was 20 but by that time I was already doing other things job wise, so now I'd have no interest in turning pro or doing the pga course. Never say never though.
 RMW is a terrible example of a pg pro if he is one and paints the job in a very bad light.  Most of what he says is nonsense and is of little value, if you watch his range sessions he absolutely slaps the ball, not sure the way he comes across fills many with confidence that he is competent.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jan 7, 2019)

I know my pro thinks been able to be pga qualified off 4 handicap is way too high.
He would argue that you may be able to understand and explain the golf swing but sometimes you have to demonstrate to a pupil as well.
For me seeing the results of his striking has been quite enlightening. Similar swing speed but his numbers show longer carry, more penetrating flight and tighter dispersion plus he can move it both ways at will.
Perfect demonstration of control of the club face at impact which is my weakness at present and it shows what I can achieve with more control.
I doubt a 4 handicapper who barely plays any more could do that.


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## Wolf (Jan 7, 2019)

It's funny though because a lot is getting lost in the 4 handicap argument. 

Is anyone actually aware that you have  to be of 4 for a year, produce a year's worth of playing results to show its not a fluke and just happened and then they're put forward to PAT and expected to get better during the duration of their course. It's not like it's a 4 handicap and off you go they have to demonstrate improvement beyond that level. 

If the handicap is 3 or better then there is no PAT but still expected to show development. 

Getting to a 4 handicap is just the initial part. Once they get dedicated practice time most of these guys are expected to get nearer to scratch level once they enter PGA training. 

But again I go back to my point of a scratch, 2 or better handicap could still be terrible as a pro but someone a shot or 2 higher could be much more adept at teaching and learning the nuances of a swing. 

In my own experience club Champ at my first course tried to turn pro he was a scratch golfer and an absolutely terrible ball striker, could barely find a fairway and even the sound of his strike was slappy but he could score so well he would always be under par, he also was a terrible teacher now works as a Van Salemans for Vauxhall because he couldn't teach. 

Same time he turned pro there was a young lad off 4 working as an assistant to, always struck it crisply was a distinctly average putter so his scores didn't get a lot better but a real student of the game, with practise he got a bit better during his time as assistant to be able to play at par to +2 with the odd sub par round yet now he is head pro at a good club, has help hundreds of people improve and worked with other Pros that are better players and helped them Improve swing mechanics. 

Yes there needs to a an acceptable level of ability to play/strike the ball and I think PGA have it right. But everyone is so caught up in the they have to be better than me to coach me argument, yet they'll support someone like Man Utd or Arsenal whose most successful coaches were barely better than an average amateur level but could coach and improve superstars.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 7, 2019)

There is only no PAT test unless you are scratch or better, you only have to be a 4.4 handicap to start the training, no minimum time period required


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## cliveb (Jan 7, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			I donâ€™t think any other sport places requirements on itâ€™s coaches that they have to have played or competed to a certain level.
		
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To become an instructor for the Ecole Ski Francais you have to be able to ski a slalom course faster than a certain time - and it's a very tough test. The irony is that the ESF has some of the worst ski instructors around. This seems to suggest that being able to perform to a high standard bears little relation to being able to teach.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 7, 2019)

I don't think they need to be better than me, just they have to be competent and also competent enough to demonstrate proper techniques not just understand that's the way it should be done, understanding takes no skill whatsoever
The argument of football coaches isn't relevant as football isn't an individual sport, most of these guys have top players as backroom staff to put up training regimes etc scouts to help look for players, they are really just tacticians and man managers, they have competent players who actually play the game


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## Homer (Jan 7, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			There is only no PAT test unless you are scratch or better, you only have to be a 4.4 handicap to start the training, no minimum time period required
		
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All the correct information is on the pga website apparently.


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## Parsaregood (Jan 7, 2019)

Homer said:



			All the correct information is on the pga website apparently.
		
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You obviously misunderstand the text, your playing record has to be 12 months or more I.e there has to be a record of competition over a period of 12 months, you don't have to have been a 4hcap for all of that period. Also you still have to do a playability test at a later stage unless you were scratch at the time of turning pro


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## Dogma (Jan 8, 2019)

I notice today from Instagram  that Robin is putting together a website with his methods on.

All for the pricely sum of Â£40 per subscription.

Didnâ€™t he berate Meandmygolf for the same thing?


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## sunshine (Jan 9, 2019)

Parsaregood said:



			A bit like saying just let anybody willing to learn the retail side and do a few coaching courses become a pga pro, would you really have that much confidence taking lessons off someone you know wasn't all that competent as a player ? I wouldn't
		
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Are you saying that you would only have lessons from someone who is/was a better golfer than you? Your confidence in their methods comes from knowledge that they have been there and done it themselves?


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## Britishshooting (Jan 9, 2019)

I don't mind him as a person, I'm sure he'd be a good laugh to have a knock with as he can be witty at times on his videos with what I've seen. He actually plays a few courses near where i live.

In terms of his content creation however, it's extremely poor. He in my opinion has likely realised he's not getting far in terms of professional golf and began to resent selling mars bars for a living and getting minimum time to practice or play. 

He's gone about it all wrong in my opinion, if he spent some time actually creating some decent quality footage and having some form of structure to his videos he may have grown a little more, other creators may have even worked with him.

Instead the footage is lousy, quality is low and almost all videos follow the same theme of just slagging off his peers and people who have made a success out of what he is trying to do.

Unfortunately he left his integrity in the pro shop so I think he turned a lot of people off to him before they even had the chance to listen to his side.

He's now realised he's not getting the viewership to make content creation pay for him so instead is ripping off the select few that are convinced by his methods which he'll only be able to make work for so long. In the process he's gone against his own principles so it wouldn't surprise me if some of his followers see through it and decide to turn against him.


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## JamesR (Jan 9, 2019)

Iâ€™ve never heard of him before, but just seen his name mentioned on the YT Open thread...so Iâ€™ve just watched a video...oh dear!!!!

...is he always like that?


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## Wolf (Jan 9, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Iâ€™ve never heard of him before, but just seen his name mentioned on the YT Open thread...so Iâ€™ve just watched a video...oh dear!!!!

...is he always like that?
		
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Yep he's always like that, the golfing YouTube equivalent of Thrush


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## Orikoru (Jan 10, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Iâ€™ve never heard of him before, but just seen his name mentioned on the YT Open thread...so Iâ€™ve just watched a video...oh dear!!!!

...is he always like that?
		
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If you mean flippant, sarcastic, and swearing a lot then yeah. He does like the sound of his own voice but I find quite a few of his videos funny to be fair.


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## DeanoMK (Apr 2, 2019)

Looks like someone's been called out


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## Depreston (Apr 2, 2019)

DeanoMK said:



			Looks like someone's been called out 







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 What an absolute fraud


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## User20204 (Apr 2, 2019)

I lasted about 30 seconds, what am I missing ?


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## DeanoMK (Apr 2, 2019)

HappyHacker1 said:



			I lasted about 30 seconds, what am I missing ?
		
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Basically him sitting with his tail in between his legs admitting he's been trying to pass off others (flowmotion) work as his own.


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## Dogma (Apr 2, 2019)

Feel a bit sorry for him. 

Isn't he massively in debt trying to set up a website selling their ideas as his own?


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## Wolf (Apr 2, 2019)

He's clearly been caught out by them for preaching their vision as his own. But at same time is that any different to what a lot of Pro golfers do, or even other industries much like my own. Taking ideas from others and repackaging it as their own. 

Sadly for him he probably didn't repackage it enough to make it different to what they taught him. Kind of feel a bit sorry for him a tad but at same time a product of his own undoing


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## Jacko_G (Apr 2, 2019)

Sometimes it takes a bigger man to admit his wrong doings. 

Not a fan of his content or his teaching but I respect the fact he's eating humble pie and doing so on social media.


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## User20204 (Apr 2, 2019)

Just watched it, sounds to me like he's had a law suit thrown at him big style.


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## inc0gnito (Apr 3, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Sometimes it takes a bigger man to admit his wrong doings.

Not a fan of his content or his teaching but I respect the fact he's eating humble pie and doing so on social media.
		
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Not sure about that. He still sounds cagey about it all and doesnâ€™t say heâ€™s ripped them off directly. Instead he tries to say it in very round about terms and tries to deflect it quite a bit in what he says. 

Sounds to me like heâ€™s been called out, heâ€™s been threatened with being called out, or heâ€™s been threatened with a law suit. 

He should have the balls to come out directly and explicitly.


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## garyinderry (Apr 3, 2019)

Can you own intellectual rights on a swing method?     genuine question?


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 3, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Can you own intellectual rights on a swing method?     genuine question?
		
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I don't know. I would have thought something like the Leadbetter A method or the Gary Smith linear method could potentially come into this equation, but ultimately though are they simply reinventions and changes to stuff that has gone before. I guess if you stand in front of a camera and blatantly copy a method and pass it off (as appears to be the case here) then you run the risk of getting into trouble but if you explain it's a concept along the lines of xxxx's method of teaching would that not suffice. Interesting question


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## Dan2501 (Apr 3, 2019)

What a surprise. The bloke's an idiot, always has been.


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## GreiginFife (Apr 3, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Can you own intellectual rights on a swing method?     genuine question?
		
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Yes, if said method has been descrptively documented, proven that it is a unique idea or a distinct improvement on an existing idea and then filed with the relevant IP authority.


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## Britishshooting (Apr 3, 2019)

He sounds and looks like heâ€™s going to burst into tears throughout the video.

Not typically one to assume but there appears to be more than heâ€™s letting on.


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## Jacko_G (Apr 3, 2019)

inc0gnito said:



			Not sure about that. He still sounds cagey about it all and doesnâ€™t say heâ€™s ripped them off directly. Instead he tries to say it in very round about terms and tries to deflect it quite a bit in what he says.

Sounds to me like heâ€™s been called out, heâ€™s been threatened with being called out, or heâ€™s been threatened with a law suit.

He should have the balls to come out directly and explicitly.
		
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We can all interpret it whatever way wee like. 

I'm also not convinced you can launch a legal case based on teaching golf. Are all professionals that "teach" the Vardon grip ripping of Harry Vardon? Should his family be launching legal cases the world over?


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## Orikoru (Apr 3, 2019)

Interesting. It does sound like he's had a call from some lawyers doesn't it. Still, I've never heard of this FlowMotion, so a nice bit of a PR for them now.


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## Britishshooting (Apr 3, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			We can all interpret it whatever way wee like.

I'm also not convinced you can launch a legal case based on teaching golf. Are all professionals that "teach" the Vardon grip ripping of Harry Vardon? Should his family be launching legal cases the world over?
		
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I'd agree and not to be nasty but he's hardly made any decent money from copying their technique, he banged on about getting a loan and being in debt to go to America PGA Show, so he's barely making much money milling around driving ranges.

It may have been as simple as 'credit us and stop selling it as your own or else it will be escalated' at the moment what will they sue him for? Â£20? They will get plenty more views on their youtube and exposure from this than they appear to have otherwise.


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## Curls (Apr 3, 2019)

I agree I donâ€™t think they can sue him for much, probably just want him to stop, may not suit their corporate image to think heâ€™s a poster boy for them. 

If he hasnâ€™t already then I think he owes Rob McGarr an apology as well. That video is absolute cringe in the light of this ðŸ˜¬


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## Orikoru (Apr 3, 2019)

Curls said:



			I agree I donâ€™t think they can sue him for much, probably just want him to stop, may not suit their corporate image to think heâ€™s a poster boy for them.
		
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Maybe not, but his YouTube has 8000 subscribers to their 1000. So I Britishshooting may be right, rather then suing him outright they've potentially just had a quiet word and got him to do a bit of free advertising for them. Suits everyone.


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## Depreston (Apr 3, 2019)

Didn't he call someone out for plagiarising him as well


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## Orikoru (Apr 3, 2019)

Depreston said:



			Didn't he call someone out for plagiarising him as well 

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I don't think so? On the contrary, even before this he said his methods weren't original.


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## Scozzy (Apr 3, 2019)

He's just a potty mouth in a field telling you not to look when you hit it, how much harm can he doðŸ¤” in other news I've been a keen golf YouTuber for some years and never heard of flowmotion so he's taught me that at least ðŸ˜Ž


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## bobmac (Apr 3, 2019)

Britishshooting said:



			I'd agree and not to be nasty but he's hardly made any decent money from copying their technique, he banged on about getting a loan and being in debt to go to America PGA Show, so *he's barely making much money milling around driving ranges.*

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He won't make much as most driving ranges will have pros already working there and most will insist on the PGA qualification which he doesn't have.
His unique selling point is that he shouts, swears and slags off the PGA..... not what most ranges/clubs want.


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## cliveb (Apr 3, 2019)

That video is clearly faked, and the speaker is obviously not the real RMW.
I endured about half of it and didn't hear a single profanity, so it can't be him.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 3, 2019)

This thread has served one purpose as I had no knowledge or experience of any of these bloggers until now.

Having watched several of them I can only say what a bunch of self-obsessed, narcissistic charlatans they come across as.

If I was still serious about my golf I would look for a good teaching pro' with whom I could relate, not some shouty idiot clearly more interested in promoting himself rather than improving my golf.


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## Capella (Apr 3, 2019)

Depreston said:



			Didn't he call someone out for plagiarising him as well 

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Yeah, Robb McGarr. after Robb flmed a video revewing the FlowMotion swing method (based on a lesson he took).


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## Parsaregood (Apr 3, 2019)

bobmac said:



			He won't make much as most driving ranges will have pros already working there and most will insist on the PGA qualification which he doesn't have.
His unique selling point is that he shouts, swears and slags off the PGA..... not what most ranges/clubs want.
		
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Theres alot of guys teaching on the tour that dont have a PGA qualification, Mark Crossfield is hypercrititical of the PGA and doesn't even pay the yearly fee anymore. Certainly does nothing much for me the pga course, theres alot of monkeys with pga degree who I wouldn't let regrip my club never mind take swing advice from. Whilst for the most part being a golf pro isn't very well paid the reality is these guys are better off at driving ranges, assistants in a shop are paid minimum wage. One local pro I know only hires young boys and pays them the least he can whether its 4 something or 5 something an hour. Pretty poor show


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## TheDashingBlade (Apr 3, 2019)

Capella said:



			Yeah, Robb McGarr. after Robb flmed a video revewing the FlowMotion swing method (based on a lesson he took).
		
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To be fair, Rob McGarr didn't just pinch the idea, he also regurgitated almost verbatim RMWs comments. 

RMW is good when he is himself and not playing some character. Because the shouty, sweary act has worn very thin very quickly.


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## Orikoru (Apr 3, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			This thread has served one purpose as I had no knowledge or experience of any of these bloggers until now.

Having watched several of them I can only say what a bunch of self-obsessed, narcissistic charlatans they come across as.

If I was still serious about my golf I would look for a good teaching pro' with whom I could relate, not some shouty idiot clearly more interested in promoting himself rather than improving my golf.
		
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I don't think his target market is people really trying to improve. His best videos for me are when he takes the mick out of the more ridiculous training aids and instructional videos that he's seen elsewhere. I follow him mainly for laughs, I've never seriously attempted the no-look or walk-in methods that he talks about. I just like the general idea and concept of a more natural individual swing.


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## Depreston (Apr 3, 2019)

TheDashingBlade said:



			To be fair, Rob McGarr didn't just pinch the idea, he also regurgitated almost verbatim RMWs comments.

RMW is good when he is himself and not playing some character. Because the shouty, sweary act has worn very thin very quickly.
		
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Aye because he had a lesson from RMW's teacher/mate (guessing he's a flow motion teacher)... who I imagine used the same terms to RMW as he did Rob McGarrâ€¦ 

The teacher was in his early videos (They've been took down since)

I doubt he had a sudden change of heart 6 months down the youtube line... Something has happened for him to make his arse drop and post that vid


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## Dasit (Apr 3, 2019)

Who do flowmotion think they are

They didn't invent all this. Can't copyright or trademark a swing feel etc

Need someone with a bit of money behind them to help RMW out


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## JV24601 (Apr 3, 2019)

I think Robin is very good and there is without doubt a place for him in golf.
He is extremely passionate and of course trying to make a name for himself. I don't get the people who use this to criticise him.

He is of course an acquired taste, as are all other pro's/YouTubers.
I can completely understand how his swearing and antics would annoy some, but I'm fine with it and I've seen some great videos of his.

He's something very different and I find myself a lot more often than not, agreeing with him. He's helped my swing too.
A very good guy I reckon, despite some wobbles and cringey bits on the way


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## Curls (Apr 3, 2019)

TheDashingBlade said:



			To be fair, Rob McGarr didn't just pinch the idea, he also regurgitated almost verbatim RMWs comments.
		
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But McGarr couldnâ€™t have been more clear about promoting the instructor, who is in the video! He didnâ€™t pinch the idea he saw it and went for a lesson off the guy, benefitting the pro responsible, pinching it would be demonstrating it as your own. 

Yes he said a lot of the same phrases RMW did but in a response video he apologised for that and said it was just stuff that had already been on his mind (none of it is stuff you havenâ€™t heard elsewhere, if you havenâ€™t heard the â€œyou could throw a ball at that targetâ€ thing is be surprised). I hear people parroting things theyâ€™ve heard others say with no realisation thatâ€™s what theyâ€™re doing, itâ€™s quite common. RMW was way too strong in his rebuttal, which has been edited heavily, but still maintains the â€œyou canâ€™t be honest in your video mateâ€ jibe that now rings hollow. He was doing far worse.

Hopefully a lesson learnt and heâ€™ll grow from it. Weâ€™ve all made mistakes, kept on doing things we knew were wrong when that little voice in the back of our minds was telling us it was. Some are better at listening to it than others, Iâ€™m far from perfect at it. Letâ€™s just hope it hasnâ€™t cost him anything I donâ€™t wish him any ill will. At the time I thought he was out of line with his treatment of McGarr, that stuff affects people, given recent events an apology is even more called for.


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## Jacko_G (Apr 3, 2019)

Now into six pages of promotion for the guy. 

No such thing as bad advertising when it's free advertising.


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## Parsaregood (Apr 3, 2019)

Tbh I just typed in flow motion golf got a video of a guy doing a drill and then hitting a shot and it was basically as if RMW had copied it exactly in a previous video of his I had watched. Basically completely ripped the guys content off, I am with you he can teach anything he wants but you cant be making instructional videos and basically just copying someone else verbatim


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## inc0gnito (Apr 3, 2019)

garyinderry said:



			Can you own intellectual rights on a swing method?     genuine question?
		
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I think you can yeah. Copyright is quite an encompassing area and very complicated but yes I believe you can.


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## DeanoMK (May 30, 2019)

As someone who now plays Orka irons, was great to see Robin's video with Alex last week.

And then this week I went for my follow up gap test with Alex and was shocked to walk in the door and bump into Robin after he'd just had a fitting for some irons. Seemed like a genuinely nice bloke from the brief chat we had - Alex had a lot of lovely things to say about him as well - can't wait to see the video of the fitting when it comes out.


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## Parsaregood (May 30, 2019)

DeanoMK said:



			As someone who now plays Orka irons, was great to see Robin's video with Alex last week.

And then this week I went for my follow up gap test with Alex and was shocked to walk in the door and bump into Robin after he'd just had a fitting for some irons. Seemed like a genuinely nice bloke from the brief chat we had - Alex had a lot of lovely things to say about him as well - can't wait to see the video of the fitting when it comes out.
		
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Think he worked himself into a bit of a corner with some of the things he said but I think in reality he is actually ok.


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## Depreston (Oct 29, 2019)

Been watching a few of his videos where he sits in with Marcus Bell good content 

Heâ€™s a strange lad mind


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## MendieGK (Oct 29, 2019)

Depreston said:



			Been watching a few of his videos where he sits in with Marcus Bell good content 

Heâ€™s a strange lad mind
		
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You know what,I had exactly the same opinion as you, but then I met him and heâ€™s a fantastic lad. 

Iâ€™m not sure what heâ€™s trying to achieve but all I can say is that his video massively helped our business This year despite my Past reservations about him


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## Hitdaball (Oct 31, 2019)

I had a few lessons with one of the guys who taught Robin early days and they said he was a nice bloke. 

I also have a friend who had a lesson with him when he first started out, really helped him start enjoying his golf by relaxing and just hitting it.   

Iâ€™d certainly rather watch RMW than another reviewer hitting drivers 300yards and telling me how I need one. ( though tbh I rarely watch either)


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## Slab (Jan 13, 2020)

First video of his that I've actually enjoyed & a good subject for a vid (just shows you the swearing in the early videos was just for show & isn't needed in the extremes it was included)






I might have to go see what else he's been uploading recently...


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## inc0gnito (Jan 13, 2020)

Slab said:



			First video of his that I've actually enjoyed & a good subject for a vid (just shows you the swearing in the early videos was just for show & isn't needed in the extremes it was included)






I might have to go see what else he's been uploading recently...
		
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Definitely much better than his typical tripe. Not subbin just yet tho.


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## IainP (Jan 13, 2020)

That was handy,  I'd bumped a thread about that course.


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2020)

Slab said:



			First video of his that I've actually enjoyed & a good subject for a vid (just shows you the swearing in the early videos was just for show & isn't needed in the extremes it was included)






I might have to go see what else he's been uploading recently...
		
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Most of his recent content has been promoting 'Zen Golf' which I think is the guys he copied some of his techniques from - i.e. the 'walk-in shot' and 'feeling the weight of the club' and all that. He's done a few lesson videos (not Robin giving the lesson he's just observing). The guy who is giving the lesson babbles on a lot, but his techniques do seem to be quite different to a lot of pros you'll see. 

I liked that TripAdvisor video, it does tie in with what I often think when people give bad reviews of courses. Everyone's expectations are different, and for me there is always something to be enjoyed on any course as long as it hasn't completely fallen to rack and ruin. That course clearly didn't deserve to be labelled the worst in the country.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 13, 2020)

My pro is telling me to not have any swing thoughts whatsoever at the moment - instead - It's all about the club striking the ball - and at the moment I must have one and only one 'strike thought' - I must try and strike the ball off the toe of the club.  And that's it.


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