# World Cup



## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2014)

1 game and 1 massive ref blunder already 
Enjoyed the game mind, good start to the tournament from a footy point of view. Better than the usual bore draws we get in the early stages of the comp.
3 games later, need beer etc to see the night through :cheers:


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			1 game and 1 massive ref blunder already 
Enjoyed the game mind, good start to the tournament from a footy point of view. Better than the usual bore draws we get in the early stages of the comp.
3 games later, need beer etc to see the night through :cheers:
		
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I though the game was too big for the ref, surely the game is more high profile / pressure in South America and Europe? I'd of had a ref from either of those continents. May sound harsh, but maybe let the other refs get a lower game under their belt. Then once pressure is off they may be able to get later stage games. I reckon he won't have another game this wc.


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## virtuocity (Jun 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I though the game was too big for the ref, surely the game is more high profile / pressure in South America and Europe? I'd of had a ref from either of those continents. May sound harsh, but maybe let the other refs get a lower game under their belt. Then once pressure is off they may be able to get later stage games. I reckon he won't have another game this wc.
		
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There should be no referees participating in the World Cup if any of the games played at the tournament are 'too big' for them.

The game was a complete shambles and from the outset it was obvious that the Ref was going to give Brazil everything that was going.  Brazil showing how ordinary they are by diving all over the place.  If they don't improve their defensive display (and get rid of The Hulk) then they will be shown up.

The "we'll score more goals than you" routine no longer works in the World Cup.


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## Crazyface (Jun 13, 2014)

Shocking start. The favs resort to cheating to beat the opposition. I hope that Roy was watching and will tell our lads to do the same AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY. I also hope that we then go on to win the thing using these tactics, throwing ourselves on the floor when a slight breeze touches us. This for me would be poetic justice, as these foreign players that have infiltrated our game will have taught us how to do this. Oh how I would laugh. Remember Michael Owens "dive" v Argentina. More of that please England.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			There should be no referees participating in the World Cup if any of the games played at the tournament are 'too big' for them.

The game was a complete shambles and from the outset it was obvious that the Ref was going to give Brazil everything that was going.  Brazil showing how ordinary they are by diving all over the place.  If they don't improve their defensive display (and get rid of The Hulk) then they will be shown up.

The "we'll score more goals than you" routine no longer works in the World Cup.
		
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Personally I think it's right that refs from all over the world represent their countries at the WC. Unfortunately some just aren't used to the stage, doesn't mean they're not good enough. Just FIFA should show some common sense and start them in lowers profile games IMO. 


As to the diving and cheating, will see plenty more of that from most sides. England have their own that do it now too. No longer is it a foreign thing.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 13, 2014)

Brazil are gonna have to play better than that, or get the same help from the ref, if they are going to win. The Penalty decision was a joke and Neymar was lucky to still be on the pitch when he scored. The Croats (or is it Croations?)@ will no doubt get into trouble for their comments about the ref but they were justified in my opinion. If you haven't seen the comments...

"It's a scandal - this referee should not be at this World Cup," said Lovren.

The Southampton player added: "I don't know for what he deserved to be here. It's really disappointing for us because we were playing a good game against a big team. "Two billion people I think saw that it was not a penalty. I didn't touch him."

"We're really disappointed but what can you do against 12 players? You can't do anything. I'm sad, that's it, because we played a good match and the referee - it wasn't a mistake, it was a scandal."

Fellow Croatia defender Vedran Corluka thought that the decision was "embarrassing".

"It was the first game of the World Cup. Brazil played well, but they didn't deserve to win in this way," said the former Manchester City and Tottenham player.

"It's ridiculous he was so keen to give the decision - it was difficult to accept it."

Croatia coach Niko Kovac stated that Croatia should "give up and go home".

"We talk about respect, that wasn't respect, Croatia didn't get any. If that's a penalty, we don't need to play football anymore. Let's play basketball instead. It's a shame," said the 42-year-old.

"If you continue like this you will have 100 penalties. I think 2.5 billion people watching on TV saw this was not a penalty.


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## Fyldewhite (Jun 13, 2014)

"Player cons Ref at World Cup match"..........it's hardly "Man bites dog" is it?

Unfortunately it has become part of the game. It could be argued that the Croatia defender did clearly pull him on the shoulder. Only very lightly and the attacker made a meal of it but he still did it and had no need to and he gave the ref a decision to make if you like. OK, the ref obviously got it wrong with the benefit of replays etc but he did so because of what he saw in real time and the fact remains that if the defender hadn't done that the penalty wouldn't have been given.

It's not right, it's not good to watch but defenders have to be cleaner than clean in the box or the modern striker will take full advantage. Pointless moaning about it and there is a subtle difference between what happened last night and "simulation".....oh, and we are just as bad as any other team when it comes to this issue.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			The game was a complete shambles and from the outset it was obvious that the Ref was going to give Brazil everything that was going.  Brazil showing how ordinary they are by diving all over the place.  If they don't improve their defensive display (and get rid of The Hulk) then they will be shown up.
		
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Agreed about Hulk, he's a shocking player not quite sure how he gets a game.


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## Wayman (Jun 13, 2014)

Missed first 20mins of match as kept falling asleep!!!
Ref made couple bad decisions but that's football bet it's a hard job for a ref blink of a eye and could miss something
Football needs a video ref like rugby!

Missing England game Saturday ain't that bothered tho


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## chrisd (Jun 13, 2014)

I thought it was a more entertaining game than a lot of the bore draws we get in the opening matches usually.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2014)

Terrible refereeing decision. Good to see Blatter's envelope stuffed full of used notes got to him though (allegedly of course) to ensure a home win


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Saw the highlights this morning and I think I'm confident in saying there won't be a home victory in the World Cup. Brazil have holes all over the team. 

The referee was shocking - biggest stage in the game and officiating was poor - Neymar should have seen red for his blatent forearm into Croats face and that penalty was just shocking 

The World Cup is going to be headline making and exciting - basically because refs are going be making monumental mistakes that cost teams the game


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Saw the highlights this morning and I think I'm confident in saying there won't be a home victory in the World Cup. Brazil have holes all over the team. 

The referee was shocking - biggest stage in the game and officiating was poor - Neymar should have seen red for his blatent forearm into Croats face and that penalty was just shocking 

The World Cup is going to be headline making and exciting - basically because refs are going be making monumental mistakes that cost teams the game
		
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Certainly seems an odd choice of referee for the opening game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Certainly seems an odd choice of referee for the opening game.
		
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Prob the cheapest for FIFA


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## Pathetic Shark (Jun 13, 2014)

I've just stocked my fridge with beers for the World Cup, customised for each match.   I've got San Miguel for when Spain are playing because it's Spanish, Becks for when Germany are playing because it's German and Carling for when England are playing because it's ****.

I've just seen photos of the Pitch for the England v Italy game tomorrow.   The last time I saw a pitch in that condition was England v Germany.   Christmas Day 1914.

I can't believe Brazil named a beach after a Barry Manilow song.


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## Beezerk (Jun 13, 2014)

Jesus, what are the officials playing at? Shockers again and it's only half an hour into the game.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 13, 2014)

Re the pitch at Manaus, gather they have been painting it green, same thing happened at the British Masters at Collingtree Park in the 90's, greens were so bad

Surprised as the heat and humidity out there should be ideal grass growing conditions


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## c1973 (Jun 13, 2014)

Some shocking decisions in the Mexico game here.  If they don't get all 3 points here then they've been robbed.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Re the pitch at Manaus, gather they have been painting it green, same thing happened at the British Masters at Collingtree Park in the 90's, greens were so bad

Surprised as the heat and humidity out there should be ideal grass growing conditions
		
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bearing in mind it's take them best part if 6 years to not fully complete the stadium build, I'm surprised there's grass on the pitch!


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 13, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Re the pitch at Manaus, gather they have been painting it green, same thing happened at the British Masters at Collingtree Park in the 90's, greens were so bad

Surprised as the heat and humidity out there should be ideal grass growing conditions
		
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The STRI have said it is perfectly playable and looks worse than it is - we shall see


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Some shocking decisions in the Mexico game here.  If they don't get all 3 points here then they've been robbed.
		
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Just got in from work and not seen the incidents yet. Tell me the goal decisions weren't as bad as 5live sport are making out


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Just got in from work and not seen the incidents yet. Tell me the goal decisions weren't as bad as 5live sport are making out
		
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They are, Lino looking across the line with no obstacles and calls it wrong, the santos offside after a Cameroon defender heads the ball!


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## c1973 (Jun 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Just got in from work and not seen the incidents yet. Tell me the goal decisions weren't as bad as 5live sport are making out
		
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Not sure what 5live were saying, but the disallowed goals were shocking decisions.


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## c1973 (Jun 13, 2014)

Mexico looked very dangerous going forward, defence is suspect at set pieces though. Well deserved victory.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Just got in from work and not seen the incidents yet. Tell me the goal decisions weren't as bad as 5live sport are making out
		
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Just seen the highligts, they are frankly appalling. Schoolboy stuff.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2014)

Yep. Just seen them and they were shocking. Sunday morning stuff


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## Rumpokid (Jun 13, 2014)

Another blunder penalty against Holland, Lawro what a joker!!!!


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## Jack_bfc (Jun 13, 2014)

Another dive and another poor decision......


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## Rumpokid (Jun 13, 2014)

Great header.., game on...


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 13, 2014)

RVP, take a bow son. That's a great header


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Jack_bfc said:



			Another dive and another poor decision......
		
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Pen for me, maybe he won it, but defended was nowhere near the ball. Go to ground in the box and you'll be in trouble.


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## chrisd (Jun 13, 2014)

Van Persie could gave scored the goal of the World Cup already !


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Van Persie could gave scored the goal of the World Cup already !
		
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Big call! Great pass and finish mind!


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## Rumpokid (Jun 13, 2014)

Costa off, another bad decision!!!


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 13, 2014)

Spain are all over the place, very disappointing


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 13, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Spain are all over the place, very disappointing
		
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That is what happens when you play tippy tappy fitba against decent sides!


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2014)

RVP twists the knife and puts the game to bed.


*Slime*.


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## richy (Jun 13, 2014)

Casillas has a first touch like Danny Welbeck


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 13, 2014)

This is unbelievable, the dutch could get more here too


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2014)

richy said:



			Casillas has a first touch like Fernando Torres 

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:thup:


*Slime*.


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## JCW (Jun 13, 2014)

Spain play like Bace, everyone knows how to play against that style , thats why fab has gone to chelski , it like him is past it sell by date


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

There have been a few shocking tackles in this game - a few have gone flying in 

Refs have been poor - very poor again 

Quality from Robben in this game


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## Andy808 (Jun 13, 2014)

Superb scoring from Holland. 
I don't like Spanish football one bit.


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## Fromtherough (Jun 13, 2014)

Spain v Netherlands has certainly lived up to the billing. However, not exactly the expected result. The Dutch have torn them apart in the 2nd half.


As a side note Â£5 e/w on Van Persie to be top goal scorer at 33/1 already looks one of my better bets this World Cup.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 13, 2014)

Just come in to find holland 5-1 up, didn't see that one coming


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## USER1999 (Jun 13, 2014)

JCW said:



			Spain play like Bace, everyone knows how to play against that style , thats why fab has gone to chelski , it like him is past it sell by date
		
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I think you will find fab still has a lot of footy left in the tank. He's a class player. I hope you are right, but I don't think you are.


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2014)

Torres couldn't kick a ball downhill at the moment, I can't imagine a player lower in confidence right now.


*Slime*.


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## c1973 (Jun 13, 2014)

Spain have been THE dominant team for around 6 or 7 years, this could well signal the beginning of the end of that dominance. Hell of a result for the Oranje.


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## Wayman (Jun 13, 2014)

We'll that was a shock


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## Andy808 (Jun 13, 2014)

Slime said:



			Torres couldn't kick a ball downhill at the moment, I can't imagine a player lower in confidence right now.


*Slime*.
		
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He hasn't managed to work out how to do that since he went to Chelski. Other than a couple of goals in the CL he's done very very little other than missing an open goal from 3 yards!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

JCW said:



			Spain play like Bace, everyone knows how to play against that style , thats why fab has gone to chelski , it like him is past it sell by date
		
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Lots of football left in Fabregas - not sure if Chelsea is the right club for him in terms of the tactics employed by Maureen


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Spain have been THE dominant team for around 6 or 7 years, this could well signal the beginning of the end of that dominance. Hell of a result for the Oranje.
		
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Spain lost the first game of the last World Cup but didn't lose like that !


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## c1973 (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spain lost the first game of the last World Cup but didn't lose like that !
		
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Only lost 2 goals at the last one.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Spain have been THE dominant team for around 6 or 7 years, this could well signal the beginning of the end of that dominance. Hell of a result for the Oranje.
		
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I think the signs have been their. They have played fantastic footy, but teams are starting to counter it. Counter attack seems to be the current flavour.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2014)

Spain looked a mess. No real response after going behind and the keeper culpable twice


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Only lost 2 goals at the last one.
		
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I wonder what would have happened if that 3rd goal wasn't allowed - Persil fouling the keeper possibly ?


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 13, 2014)

Am I right in thinking that the holders and home team don't have to qualify for the next World Cup
, so has the lack of competitive games damaged both Spain and Brazil?


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## c1973 (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder what would have happened if that 3rd goal wasn't allowed - Persil fouling the keeper possibly ?
		
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Hard to say what would have happened tbf. I'm a great believer in keepers getting to much protection, so nah, no foul.  

I think Chile could take points of both teams, going to be an interesting group that one.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2014)

No excuse for his touch for the other goal though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Am I right in thinking that the holders and home team don't have to qualify for the next World Cup
, so has the lack of competitive games damaged both Spain and Brazil?
		
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Only the home team qualifies automatically 

Spain have to qualify

Oh and Costa with a cheeky headbutt but gets away with it


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 13, 2014)

Spain qualified with ease unbeaten but they looked a shambles tonight.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 13, 2014)

Great game after first 10 15 mins..Will take some beating..Holland were great to watch.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only the home team qualifies automatically 

Spain have to qualify
		
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My mistake they changed the rule for the 2006 World Cup
Prior to that the previous winners didn't have to qualify.

I stand corrected


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## Rumpokid (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder what would have happened if that 3rd goal wasn't allowed - Persil fouling the keeper possibly ?
		
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Was a great goal,as were most of Holland's..Torres's miss was unbelievable!!..Then again Hmm.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Was a great goal,as were most of Holland's..Torres's miss was unbelievable!!..Then again Hmm.
		
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The 3rd goal a great goal ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			My mistake they changed the rule for the 2006 World Cup
Prior to that the previous winners didn't have to qualify.

I stand corrected 

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Not sure why they changed it tbh 

Think the winners should go straight into the finals 

But what I don't agree is having joint hosts going straight in ?

Wales Scotland and Ireland all bid ( Euros )and if they won would have gone straight in ?!


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Yeah 



PhilTheFragger said:



			My mistake they changed the rule for the 2006 World Cup
Prior to that the previous winners didn't have to qualify.

I stand corrected 

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Yeah FIFA changed it so co hosts could be used. Ridiculous, although you'd expect holders to qualify easy enough. Holders should always be in it.


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure why they changed it tbh 

Think the winners should go straight into the finals 

*But what I don't agree is having joint hosts going straight in* ?

Wales Scotland and Ireland all bid ( Euros )and if they won would have gone straight in ?!
		
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Yer kidding me right?

Hold a tourney in a country but the hosts are not there? That would work well as a spectacle.....not.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Yer kidding me right?

Hold a tourney in a country but the hosts are not there? That would work well as a spectacle.....not.
		
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What should happen is only have one host go into the tournament - no joint hosts


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## c1973 (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Yer kidding me right?

Hold a tourney in a country but the hosts are not there? That would work well as a spectacle.....not.
		
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Yeah, but 3 countries hosting it? Don't think that's quite right if 3 places have to go to what in effect is 3 footballing backwaters at the expense of better teams. Hardly good for the tournament as a spectacle. Don't agree with the co host thing.


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What should happen is only have one host go into the tournament - no joint hosts
		
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So only one country should hold it and no co-hosting?

Really disagree.Having that would mean smaller countries like Austria,Poland,Belgium,Holland,Wales,Scotland,Norway,Sweden etc would never get to host a Euros and it would be reserved for only England,Germany,Spain etc.............pretty boring merry go round.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So only one country should hold it and no co-hosting?

Really disagree.Having that would mean smaller countries like Austria,Poland,Belgium,Holland,Wales,Scotland,Norway,Sweden etc would never get to host a Euros and it would be reserved for only England,Germany,Spain etc.............pretty boring merry go round.
		
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Yep only one country to host 

If countries can't hold it on their own then they don't get to host it 

Sorry but believe places in tournaments get taken up by teams whose performances mean they shouldn't be there.


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep only one country to host 

If countries can't hold it on their own then they don't get to host it 

Sorry but believe places in tournaments get taken up by teams whose performances mean they shouldn't be there.
		
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Thankfully you are not in charge of UEFA.

The co-hosted ones have been superb but they are moving away from this all though to a format that is an utter joke IMO.

Shafting the fans whom follow their countries.


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## Slime (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Thankfully you are not in charge of UEFA.

The co-hosted ones have been superb but they are moving away from this all though to a format that is an utter joke IMO.

Shafting the fans whom follow their countries.
		
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Simple answer really. If there are co-hosts, they can play each other to decide who gets the automatic place, good for the fans too.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Thankfully you are not in charge of UEFA.

The co-hosted ones have been superb but they are moving away from this all though to a format that is an utter joke IMO.

Shafting the fans whom follow their countries.
		
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Shouldn't the finals have all the best teams in Europe or the World in the comp ? 

There is nothing stopping Holland or Portugal etc hosting the comp on their own - they have the stadiums

As do most countries 

Having joint hosts means that a team in qualifying misses out. That's not right.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Thankfully you are not in charge of UEFA.

The co-hosted ones have been superb but they are moving away from this all though to a format that is an utter joke IMO.

Shafting the fans whom follow their countries.
		
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Whilst i agree, if Scotland/ROI/Wales were joint host's, at least 1 of those 3 should have to qualify or it would be unfair to the 1 team losing out just because it was a 3 way bid.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Thankfully you are not in charge of UEFA.

The co-hosted ones have been superb but they are moving away from this all though to a format that is an utter joke IMO.

Shafting the fans whom follow their countries.
		
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Co hosts may put on a great show. But the whole reason they changed the rule is ridiculous, having a tournament without a host is bad. Without holders is just as bad. 

I wonder how far down the route are you willing to go though, say Italy want to host the euros and San Marino try and get in on the act. Do we let them join too?


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shouldn't the finals have all the best teams in Europe or the World in the comp ? 

There is nothing stopping Holland or Portugal etc hosting the comp on their own - they have the stadiums

As do most countries 

Having joint hosts means that a team in qualifying misses out. That's not right.
		
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And if Portugal were to host a tournament back in mid/late 70's to 1982 or again in 10 years time when they possibly may not be 'a best team'?

Belgium,Sweden or Denmark should never be allowed to co-host then? They do not have the infrastructure to host it alone now we have gone beyond the old 7 teams to qualify.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 13, 2014)

No offence, but it is good to see them Sheila's getting a football lesson...Early days though


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			And if Portugal were to host a tournament back in mid/late 70's to 1982 or again in 10 years time when they possibly may not be 'a best team'?

Belgium,Sweden or Denmark should never be allowed to co-host then? They do not have the infrastructure to host it alone now we have gone beyond the old 7 teams to qualify.
		
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Didn't Portugal qualify back in 86 ? Have qualified for most tournaments so they are good enough 

No one should co host - one host and that's it - if they haven't got the infrastructure then they either build it or don't host it.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn't Portugal qualify back in 86 ? Have qualified for most tournaments so they are good enough 

No one should co host - one host and that's it -* if they haven't got the infrastructure then they either build it or don't host it.*

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Like Brazil have despite 1000's of people living in slums?

Do you seriously believe that is the correct way to go about holding football competitions?

Look at how much that stadium in the Algarve gets used since the Euro's!


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn't Portugal qualify back in 86 ? Have qualified for most tournaments so they are good enough 

No one should co host - one host and that's it - if they haven't got the infrastructure then they either build it or don't host it.
		
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No-one mentioned 86.

They were as bad as we are during the years I mentioned so what if they had been picked for hosting during those years as they had the stadia but in reality were also rans?

Same could happen in years to come for many countries England being one of them.

Co-hosting I really don't have an issue with it even if the 2 are not 2 of the 'best teams'. They should be there as hosts and surely even of they are only ever going to be bit part players they should be included?

If not then what's the point in the rest of those bit part teams that have qualified playing?

Hell,just make it Spain,Germany,Italy Holland every 4 years.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Like Brazil have despite 1000's of people living in slums?

Do you seriously believe that is the correct way to go about holding football competitions?

Look at how much that stadium in the Algarve gets used since the Euro's!
		
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But how small should we go? San Marino? Gibralter? 

How ow many people agree with Qatar as wc hosts? No footballing pedigree whatsoever, no current infrastructure. But lots of money!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Like Brazil have despite 1000's of people living in slums?

Do you seriously believe that is the correct way to go about holding football competitions?

Look at how much that stadium in the Algarve gets used since the Euro's!
		
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The correct way is for the tournaments to be hosted by the countries capable of hosting them without putting themselves into financial ruin - 

The first thing that needs sorting is the bid process. 

Brazil have poured millions into both the World Cup and Olympics and shouldn't have been awarded either.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Part 



Dodger said:



			No-one mentioned 86.

They were as bad as we are during the years I mentioned so what if they had been picked for hosting during those years as they had the stadia but in reality were also rans?

Same could happen in years to come for many countries England being one of them.

Co-hosting I really don't have an issue with it even if the 2 are not 2 of the 'best teams'. They should be there as hosts and surely even of they are only ever going to be bit part players they should be included?

If not then what's the point in the rest of those bit part teams that have qualified playing?

Hell,just make it Spain,Germany,Italy Holland every 4 years.

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The atmosphere is always better whilst the hosts are involved. Now whilst not all hosts will win the event. If they're a team that host and get spanked in all three Group games, how does that help the atmosphere?


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			But how small should we go? San Marino? Gibralter? 

How ow many people agree with Qatar as wc hosts? No footballing pedigree whatsoever, no current infrastructure. But lots of money!
		
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None agree,none.

Re SM that is you just being plain stupid now.They don't have 1 stadium capable nor do Gibraltar so that is never going to up for argument.


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The correct way is for the tournaments to be hosted by the countries capable of hosting them without putting themselves into financial ruin - 

The first thing that needs sorting is the bid process. 

Brazil have poured millions into both the World Cup and Olympics and shouldn't have been awarded either.
		
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You can't judge that for years to come until the government see what,if any,return is made.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			No-one mentioned 86.

They were as bad as we are during the years I mentioned so what if they had been picked for hosting during those years as they had the stadia but in reality were also rans?

Same could happen in years to come for many countries England being one of them.

Co-hosting I really don't have an issue with it even if the 2 are not 2 of the 'best teams'. They should be there as hosts and surely even of they are only ever going to be bit part players they should be included?

If not then what's the point in the rest of those bit part teams that have qualified playing?

Hell,just make it Spain,Germany,Italy Holland every 4 years.

Click to expand...

But they didn't get picked so it's irrelevant.

There is a clear difference between "bit part" teams that qualify and ones that host 

One has "earned" the right by performances on the pitch in qualifying so have a right to be there 

It's the finals - it should be all the teams that have earned their place , the previous winners and the one host country.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The correct way is for the tournaments to be hosted by the countries capable of hosting them without putting themselves into financial ruin - 

The first thing that needs sorting is the bid process. 

Brazil have poured millions into both the World Cup and Olympics and shouldn't have been awarded either.
		
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why not? The government clearly feel the financial benefits will eventually better the economy. Brazil are actually a country whose economy wasn't as battered as most during the depression. 


They have  favelas as they do have a massive divide in rich and poor, but you can find areas of neglect the world over. Look how parts of London have been improved with the Olympics here. 


Brazil fit your criteria of being big and good enough to host an event. If financial power is the key element then China Russia and Arab States will be having a good for wc and Olympics.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*The correct way is for the tournaments to be hosted by the countries capable of hosting them without putting themselves into financial ruin* - 

The first thing that needs sorting is the bid process. 

Brazil have poured millions into both the World Cup and Olympics and shouldn't have been awarded either.
		
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I very much doubt there's many countries that are capable of spending billions without getting into financial trouble.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			None agree,none.

Re SM that is you just being plain stupid now.They don't have 1 stadium capable nor do Gibraltar so that is never going to up for argument.
		
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I see, spotting a flaw in your argument is stupid?

in all seriousness, what size should we go to?


There are 47 countries in Europe according to google. You moan that only a handful can host on their own, but how many will you suggest should be able to host. All or nothing IMO. 


Surely San Marino could co host with Italy, or gibralter with Spain. I'm sure they could build one stadium? Or are this countries to small to support you point?


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But they didn't get picked so it's irrelevant.

There is a clear difference between "bit part" teams that qualify and ones that host 

One has "earned" the right by performances on the pitch in qualifying so have a right to be there 

It's the finals - it should be all the teams that have earned their place , the previous winners and the one host country.
		
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And if that picked host side are gash? South Africa.....

We'll agree to disagree because I know you will sit all night.

For a man that does not support his national team you have a hell of a lot to say on World Football.

I'll await the peaceful silence after England perform tomorrow...............


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## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			why not? The government clearly feel the financial benefits will eventually better the economy. Brazil are actually a country whose economy wasn't as battered as most during the depression. 


They have  favelas as they do have a massive divide in rich and poor, but you can find areas of neglect the world over.* Look how parts of London have been improved with the Olympics here. *


Brazil fit your criteria of being big and good enough to host an event. If financial power is the key element then China Russia and Arab States will be having a good for wc and Olympics.
		
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Very few of the stadiums in Brazil will be used after the WC, thats not much used to huge country with high rate of poverty and a poor (if any)welfare state.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The co-hosted ones have been superb but they are moving away from this all though to a format that is an utter joke IMO.
		
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Yes, but 3 hosts is getting close to what Uefa want, which is a joke.

2 hosts max, otherwise it is just a back door entry for loads of diddy teams.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I very much doubt there's many countries that are capable of spending billions without getting into financial trouble.
		
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Then don't host them 

Greece and SA are two perfect examples - crippled by hosting major events and no legacy afterwards.


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I see, spotting a flaw in your argument is stupid?

in all seriousness, what size should we go to?


There are 47 countries in Europe according to google. You moan that only a handful can host on their own, but how many will you suggest should be able to host. All or nothing IMO. 


Surely San Marino could co host with Italy, or gibralter with Spain. I'm sure they could build one stadium? Or are this countries to small to support you point?
		
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Not at all..........San Marino and Gibraltar would never be considered as countries have to have a capability of hosting games around a few cities and the last time you,I and UEFA looked San Marino and Gibraltar did not have multi cities within their nation.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			And if that picked host side are gash? South Africa.....

We'll agree to disagree because I know you will sit all night.

For a man that does not support his national team you have a hell of a lot to say on World Football.

I'll await the peaceful silence after England perform tomorrow...............
		
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Then you have one poor team as opposed to two or three or even four 

Not sure what my non support of England has to do with talking about World Football ?!


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## Stuart_C (Jun 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then don't host them 

Greece and SA are two perfect examples - crippled by hosting major events and no legacy afterwards.
		
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I agree, unfortunately money talks.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Very few of the stadiums in Brazil will be used after the WC, thats not much used to huge country with high rate of poverty and a poor (if any)welfare state.
		
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Are you sure? Some of the stadiums have been privately redeveloped by clubs so as to earn revenue during the World Cup. Others will be used by clubs also, plus they belive that the tourism income will be massive too, add sponsors to that and Brazil expect to turn a profit on the wc and Olympics. 

Brazil il too have massive over population, but it's not down to FIFA to judge that. If Brazil can afford the wc, which there economist suggest it can, then they shouldn't be ruled out. Brazil had poverty before the World Cup and will do after, much like South Africa. I'd still rather see it in bith these nations than Qatar.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 13, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree, unfortunately money talks.
		
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I also agree and it's money going it to corrupt people's pockets


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

If 



Dodger said:



			Not at all..........San Marino and Gibraltar would never be considered as countries have to have a capability of hosting games around a few cities and the last time you,I and UEFA looked San Marino and Gibraltar did not have multi cities within their nation.
		
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Qatar currently have zero stadiums, yes they can build them but I'd imagine if San Marino suggested they could co host with Italy and host 1 game, but had recently found gold stores. They'd soon be hosts. 

But if they're not good enough examples, how about Albania, Armenia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Latvia or Kosovo? Should they host it?


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## Dodger (Jun 13, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			If 
Qatar currently have zero stadiums, yes they can build them but I'd imagine if San Marino suggested they could co host with Italy and host 1 game, but had recently found gold stores. They'd soon be hosts. 

But if they're not good enough examples, how about Albania, Armenia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Latvia or Kosovo? Should they host it?
		
Click to expand...

Why not?

Help develop their game with the cash instead of the rich getting richer a la Champions League filthy stranglehold.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Why not?

Help develop their game with the cash instead of the rich getting richer a la Champions League filthy stranglehold.
		
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But the tournament has to be a spectacle, cl events don't have hosts so people don't miss out for lesser teams. It's and entertainment event. I want to see the best perform, not teams making up the numbers to be fair. 


I dont  see how wanting one hits is akin to rich getting richer though. All thise teams could host the event and would likely have no improvement in their game at all, we host the biggest tennis tournament in the world every summer and yet we have had how many winners? None for how Many years?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 14, 2014)

As Gibralta have only just received accreditation from UEFA and FIFA to start competing, the jump to co hosts with Spain is a pretty big one. I have no issues about the joint host policy. As an England fan I expect us to qualify and be there by right so my interest in the tournament is galvanised from that point and to be blunt, if another nation has to miss out somewhere down the line as long as it isn't mine I don't actually care too muchh


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

Good WC Quiz here for people to have a go 

I got 23 :thup:

http://www.theguardian.com/football...d-cup-2014-the-ultimate-world-cup-trivia-quiz


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## c1973 (Jun 15, 2014)

Something wrong with that quiz, I answered all the questions correctly but only got 11 points  . It must have a glitch calculating your points total. :mmm:


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 15, 2014)

Another goal incorrectly ruled out for offside, Switzerland hard done by this time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Another goal incorrectly ruled out for offside, Switzerland hard done by this time.
		
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It's very poor

It's going to cost countries millions these mistakes 


On a side note - ITV's coverage is shocking


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

Well that's a last minute finish !


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well that's a last minute finish !
		
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Great bit of referreeing giving the advantage after behrami was taken out too


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Great bit of referreeing giving the advantage after behrami was taken out too
		
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And a bloody fantastic tackle from him at the start of it as well


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## c1973 (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And a bloody fantastic tackle from him at the start of it as well
		
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It was indeed.

Plenty of goals so far, let's hope that continues throughout the tournament.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2014)

The Swiss got their reward. Great interception in their own box, great advantage but the referee and a good finish. Not a bad game for the armchair fan although I have to be honest and say I was switching between the match and the test to see Balance get his maiden test century


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

The BBC line up tonight is very funny 

Henry and Seedorf both wonderful player in the prime with lots of class and multiple winners of the biggest and best tournaments - speak very well on telly and show a very clear understanding of the game and able to put their point across in a very eloquent way 

Then there is Robbie Savage !


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2014)

Harsh but fair. At least it isn't Phil Neville! Has he been sacked as pundit and co-commentator yet?


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## Piece (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The BBC line up tonight is very funny 

Henry and Seedorf both wonderful player in the prime with lots of class and multiple winners of the biggest and best tournaments - speak very well on telly and show a very clear understanding of the game and able to put their point across in a very eloquent way 

Then there is Robbie Savage !
		
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...on that note: 

Robbie Savage, workmanlike midfielder for Wales: "The key for Honduras is to give France a hard time. When I played against Thierry Henry, we used to go out there, be strong and be physical. We were like wasps. We didn't give them a moment to settle. You hated playing that sort of team, didn't you, Thierry?"

World Cup winner Thierry Henry's response: "We managed."

:whoo::rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

Piece said:



			...on that note: 

Robbie Savage, workmanlike midfielder for Wales: "The key for Honduras is to give France a hard time. When I played against Thierry Henry, we used to go out there, be strong and be physical. We were like wasps. We didn't give them a moment to settle. You hated playing that sort of team, didn't you, Thierry?"

World Cup winner Thierry Henry's response: "We managed."

:whoo::rofl:
		
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Brilliant :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

:rofl:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2014)

Another WC farce with GL technology. Still not convinced that second one was over the line. First one definitely not and the side on of the ball coming off the keeper clearly didn't show the ball going beyond the post so fail to see how all of the ball can be over all of the line. Me suspects tweaking of the technology upstairs somewhere.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 11003


:rofl:
		
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Someone tweeted â€œIf I was on a desert island with Phil Neville and a tin of corned beef, I would eat Phil Neville and talk to the corned beefâ€.


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## Piece (Jun 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Another WC farce with GL technology. Still not convinced that second one was over the line. First one definitely not and the side on of the ball coming off the keeper clearly didn't show the ball going beyond the post so fail to see how all of the ball can be over all of the line. Me suspects tweaking of the technology upstairs somewhere.
		
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I take opposite view. Tech worked perfectly as ref gave the goal very quickly. Replays just backed up when and where the ball crossed the line.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 15, 2014)

Piece said:



			I take opposite view. Tech worked perfectly as ref gave the goal very quickly. Replays just backed up when and where the ball crossed the line.
		
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They could do with only showing where it crossed. Flashing up "No Goal" and then "Goal" just confuses things. But I agree, the technology was bought in to remove the doubt, if you are going to use it, you have to trust it. I do however agree with homer, it didn't look to be completely over the line


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2014)

Piece said:



			I take opposite view. Tech worked perfectly as ref gave the goal very quickly. Replays just backed up when and where the ball crossed the line.
		
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But the replay doesn't back it up. The angle from the left hand side of the goal is pretty clear and I still can't see the ball going past the post and therefore all of the ball being over the line. I remain unconvinced despite what technology said


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



Someone tweeted â€œIf I was on a desert island with Phil Neville and a tin of corned beef, I would eat Phil Neville and talk to the corned beefâ€. 

Click to expand...


:rofl:

I'm going to guess we won't hear him again


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			They could do with only showing where it crossed. Flashing up "No Goal" and then "Goal" just confuses things. But I agree, the technology was bought in to remove the doubt, if you are going to use it, you have to trust it. I do however agree with homer, it didn't look to be completely over the line
		
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Haven't seen a replay close enough to remove any doubt but as you say - have to trust the technology


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## Piece (Jun 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But the replay doesn't back it up. The angle from the left hand side of the goal is pretty clear and I still can't see the ball going past the post and therefore all of the ball being over the line. I remain unconvinced despite what technology said
		
Click to expand...

Just watched it back on Sky+. Looks clear to me that the tech is spot on and that Jonathan Pearce got his knickers in an unnecessary twist!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Haven't seen a replay close enough to remove any doubt but as you say - have to trust the technology
		
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And there in is the rub. I don't trust anything FIFA do anymore. I remain unconvinced it was a goal and will be interested to see the analysis after the game


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And there in is the rub. I don't trust anything FIFA do anymore. I remain unconvinced it was a goal and will be interested to see the analysis after the game
		
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It's the same technology that has been used in the prem

If it's proved to have failed then there will be massive reactions 

The angle shown so far look like it is just over the line but that's not a straight on angle


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## Imurg (Jun 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But the replay doesn't back it up. The angle from the left hand side of the goal is pretty clear and I still can't see the ball going past the post and therefore all of the ball being over the line. I remain unconvinced despite what technology said
		
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The replays don't have to back up the tech - it's not obvious from the replay, that's for sure, but that's why the tech is there.
It will have been tested to the limits to make sure it works.
When the ball hit the post it triggered the GLT, hence the first "no goal".
When the ball touched the line again the GLT triggered again and we got the " goal".
Every time the ball breaks the beam the GLT will fire up.
If the ball hits both posts then the bar then comes back off the keeper onto the line you'll get 4 GLT's...


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's the same technology that has been used in the prem
		
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Than won't help Phil, as Fulham had a couple of goals disallowed that looked from the replays to be further in than the one France just had allowed. I suspect that's where Homer's scepticism comes from.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's the same technology that has been used in the prem

If it's proved to have failed then there will be massive reactions 

The angle shown so far look like it is just over the line but that's not a straight on angle
		
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Its not the same as in prem. Prem uses hawk eye, FIFA have adopted a German company that do it differently.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's the same technology that has been used in the prem
		
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No it isnt


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## Piece (Jun 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No it isnt
		
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Yes and no. Different companies but uses the same camera positioning tech.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Its not the same as in prem. Prem uses hawk eye, FIFA have adopted a German company that do it differently.
		
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Same technology just a different company


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			No it isnt
		
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See post to a Papa and also Pieces post


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Than won't help Phil, as Fulham had a couple of goals disallowed that looked from the replays to be further in than the one France just had allowed. I suspect that's where Homer's scepticism comes from.
		
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I guess it comes down to how much people want to trust the technology 

If there is going to be any doubts then I don't think it will stay 

After seeing it in action then I'm going to trust it


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## Papas1982 (Jun 15, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Same technology just a different company
		
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The display of it seems better from hawkeye. Have seen hawkeye replays where cross bar is removed clearly showing line, this one doesn't seem to offer that, therefor leaves some doubt. 

Seems to to be clear enough on bbc, just immediate response seems slower.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 15, 2014)

Nope still not convinced. Even Lineker isn't 100% certain and I still don't think it went in. Still the record books say it did so I guess it must have


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 15, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			The display of it seems better from hawkeye. Have seen hawkeye replays where cross bar is removed clearly showing line, this one doesn't seem to offer that, therefor leaves some doubt. 

Seems to to be clear enough on bbc, just immediate response seems slower.
		
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It maybe a better company etc but the same method technology is the one that I believe won the right with FIFA 

It certainly needs fine tuning for a viewer to see but as long as the right call is made to the ref


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 15, 2014)

Liked this


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2014)

Piece said:



			I take opposite view. Tech worked perfectly as ref gave the goal very quickly. Replays just backed up when and where the ball crossed the line.
		
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Yes, worked perfectly in my view as well, the only mistake was to show the bit where the ball hit the post which confused the crowd and BBC commentator. Goal Line Technology is stupidly accurate and I have every faith that it works perfectly every time.


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## guest100718 (Jun 16, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Yes, worked perfectly in my view as well, the only mistake was to show the bit where the ball hit the post which confused the crowd and BBC commentator. Goal Line Technology is stupidly accurate and I have every faith that it works perfectly every time.
		
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It worked perfectly, just a little confusing for poor JP.

Twice  the goals of 2010 so far and no vuvuzelas!


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## Beezerk (Jun 16, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			It worked perfectly, just a little confusing for poor JP.
		
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Yeah, he made himself sound a right twerp IMO


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 16, 2014)

The German fans seem to be right behind their team.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 16, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The German fans seem to be right behind their team.
		
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I can't work out if Germany look really good or Portugal look really bad?


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## Slime (Jun 16, 2014)

During the half time analysis, just behind Cannavaro, there seems to be a bullet hole in the glass, just behind his left ear, right as we look at him!
Am I imagining this?
Adrian Chiles .......................... spot on. *STOP THE BLOODY CHEATING.*
Germany, possible champions?


*Slime*.


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## c1973 (Jun 16, 2014)

Same old Germany; winning with a bit to spare. They know what they have to do and they usually go out and do it. 

Them or the Argies to win it.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 16, 2014)

I have no sympathy for Pepe. The man is a complete idiot.


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## richy (Jun 16, 2014)

Muller wouldn't of felt that. Pepe's perm would of cushioned the blow


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## Piece (Jun 16, 2014)

Slime said:



			During the half time analysis, just behind Cannavaro, there seems to be a bullet hole in the glass, just behind his left ear, right as we look at him!
Am I imagining this?
Adrian Chiles .......................... spot on. *STOP THE BLOODY CHEATING.*
Germany, possible champions?


*Slime*.
		
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Rocks were thrown at the studio after the Brazil game by demonstrators.

Mueller yellow card for faking but definite red for that silly bloke with comedy hair. Chiles is right but whole ethos of game will have to change.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2014)

Where Portugal not at full strength ? 

That's a pretty impressive win


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2014)

Sad that Muller simulated the foul but Pepe let his team down big time reacting like that. Germany looked efficient but to be fair Portugal were a spent force and going down to 10 and playing all the second half a man down was never going to be easy


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## c1973 (Jun 16, 2014)

They could and possibly should have been down to ten earlier (at the penalty). Booked for denying a goal scoring opportunity (forget the Portuguese players name).


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sad that Muller simulated the foul but Pepe let his team down big time reacting like that. Germany looked efficient but to be fair Portugal were a spent force and going down to 10 and playing all the second half a man down was never going to be easy
		
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I agree about Muller,but it couldn't have happened to a better person. Some of the things that Pepe does on the football field are unbelievable 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dFx-2SPvwfA


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## c1973 (Jun 16, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I agree about Muller,but it couldn't have happened to a better person. Some of the things that Pepe does on the football field are unbelievable 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dFx-2SPvwfA

Click to expand...

Completely agree. I don't mind a 'hardman' type player, but he's nothing but a nasty wee (insert whatever you want). The type of player that nips and bites rather than a hard tackler, more a Jack Russell than Japanese Tosa if you like.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 16, 2014)




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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sad that Muller simulated the foul but Pepe let his team down big time reacting like that. Germany looked efficient but to be fair Portugal were a spent force and going down to 10 and playing all the second half a man down was never going to be easy
		
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They were a spent force before they went down to 10. They looked very poor from the start to me


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 16, 2014)

All a bit of a come down now with this bore fest. Iran haven't a goal in then and Nigeria lacking the guile to break them down. 0-0 all over it


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## DanFST (Jun 16, 2014)

I've missed the cricket to watch Iran vs Nigeria. What a terrible choice.


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## c1973 (Jun 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			All a bit of a come down now with this bore fest. Iran haven't a goal in then and Nigeria lacking the guile to break them down. 0-0 all over it
		
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Hey, don't count them out yet..............Iran have a great pedigree in the World Cup.


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## richy (Jun 16, 2014)

Some of the co-commentators and studio guests have been shocking on both channels. They must've agreed to do it for free


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			All a bit of a come down now with this bore fest. Iran haven't a goal in then and Nigeria lacking the guile to break them down. 0-0 all over it
		
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All the time Dejagah is on the pitch they have a goal in them...it might not come in this game though


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## Crazyface (Jun 17, 2014)

I loved the way Adrian Childs was ranting at the two foreign former players in the studio and staring in disbelief at them as they readilly admitted that the feining of injury was part and parcel of the game and not to be condoned. Only the English lad backed him up. Have you re-newed your Sky sports package yet? If you have you're a fool. This World Cup is the last lot of football I'm EVER watching. It's a farce. In England's next game, when in posession should just run forward with the ball and fall over when tackled and immediately surround the ref if no foul is given, and do it EVERY SINGLE TIME and make the game a complete farce. Then when out of the World Cup, withdraw from FIFA, UEFA the lot have all foreign players removed from ALL TEAMS. We should then put every available penny into proper grass roots coaching, where I can assure you it is not at present despite what the FA say. Oh and T.Brooking can be chopped into tiny pieces. 
AHHHHH that's better.....................................


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

What about the English players that dive and feign injury and make a meal out of every tackle and question the ref ? 

Kick them out as well ? - might have enough players left for a 5 a side power league


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			I loved the way Adrian Childs was ranting at the two foreign former players in the studio and staring in disbelief at them as they readilly admitted that the feining of injury was part and parcel of the game and not to be condoned. Only the English lad backed him up. Have you re-newed your Sky sports package yet? If you have you're a fool. This World Cup is the last lot of football I'm EVER watching. It's a farce. In England's next game, when in posession should just run forward with the ball and fall over when tackled and immediately surround the ref if no foul is given, and do it EVERY SINGLE TIME and make the game a complete farce. Then when out of the World Cup, withdraw from FIFA, UEFA the lot have all foreign players removed from ALL TEAMS. We should then put every available penny into proper grass roots coaching, where I can assure you it is not at present despite what the FA say. Oh and T.Brooking can be chopped into tiny pieces. 
AHHHHH that's better.....................................
		
Click to expand...

Did that help? It has been that way for over a decade now, especially in European and international matches. The thing is FIFA and UEFA were going to clamp down on simulation with a rash of yellow cards. Shame no one seems to have told the refs. I've only ever seen PL refs book players for it. Until the governing bodies give the officials the power and ability to ref properly without worrying about match markings and whether they'll get another match (and so trying to referee to the n'th degree) it will never happen. A few players getting a yellow for simulation and then another for second foul and teams being down to ten or nine will get the message across. 

When only a handful of refs do it, or it is ignored sends the message that simulation is allowed. Stamp it hard now. On the plus side good to see the referees trying to let the play flow more and there have been some good uses of advantage


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## Foxholer (Jun 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Did that help? It has been that way for over a decade now
		
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Er. Make that at least 50!

Though the simulation was not for the tackle so much as to break up play/have a bit of a rest!

Bit of an improvement from the Hunter/Harris type of Football though! 

Cheating has always gone on in Football and, imo, it's just a case of who is better at it. The difference these days, as opposed to the earlier days, is who is now the greater beneficiary - and it's the attackers these days, so diving is inevitable imo. I believe sanctions are needed and a sin-bin on top of the Yellow Card wouldn't be a bad way to attack it - and ensure it's not 5-a-side!


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## Snelly (Jun 17, 2014)

The play acting in the world cup so far has been shocking. Muller for Germany is basically a cheat. Simple as that. He is a regular offender. 

FIFA could solve it instantly in one of two ways: 

1. A tournament cheat panel that sits daily and reviews incidents. All found culpable of play acting miss the next match. 

2. Instant trial by video - incident leading to someone clutching their face means we go to TV ref and he reviews it. A massive overreaction equals immediate red card. 

Problem solved. But there isn't a snowball in Qatar's chance of the doddery old blokes that run world football doing this. 

Beautiful game? I don't think so.....


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 17, 2014)

You've got to like this...http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/world-cup-2014-japan-fans-3702729

No wonder Tokyo is so clean :thup:


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## cookelad (Jun 17, 2014)

What got me was the clip of the German bench celebrating the red card!!!! That's even worse than celebrating "winning" a penalty!
Can only see it getting worse I'm afraid, you put money in front of individuals with low morals and guess what's going to happen!


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## JCW (Jun 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What about the English players that dive and feign injury and make a meal out of every tackle and question the ref ? 

Kick them out as well ? - might have enough players left for a 5 a side power league
		
Click to expand...


Its like living with you on here , same thing but that`s life so we have to live with it lol


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## Beezerk (Jun 17, 2014)

cookelad said:



			What got me was the clip of the German bench celebrating the red card!!!! That's even worse than celebrating "winning" a penalty!
		
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I don't know what it is about the German team, from as far back as I can remember they've always been horrible cheating twunts!
You don't appear to get it as much from teams who are neighbours to Germany.


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## Crazyface (Jun 17, 2014)

Snelly said:



			The play acting in the world cup so far has been shocking. Muller for Germany is basically a cheat. Simple as that. He is a regular offender. 

FIFA could solve it instantly in one of two ways: 

1. A tournament cheat panel that sits daily and reviews incidents. All found culpable of play acting miss the next match. 

2. Instant trial by video - incident leading to someone clutching their face means we go to TV ref and he reviews it. A massive overreaction equals immediate red card. 

Problem solved. But there isn't a snowball in Qatar's chance of the doddery old blokes that run world football doing this. 

Beautiful game? I don't think so.....
		
Click to expand...

1. Excellent idea.
2. Christ it's taken FIFA long enough to allow Goaline technology in. Instant replays!? We will have to wait another 50 years. Or remove Blatter and that French Froggy. Slimeballs !


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## MegaSteve (Jun 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Bit of an improvement from the Hunter/Harris type of Football though!
		
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Not at all... Game was more 'honest' then... If you were rolling about you had genuinely been hurt... If you wanted to watch the  ballet performances you get nowadays you'd get along to Covent Gardens... Not that you'd be telling your workmates you had been ...


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## Slime (Jun 17, 2014)

It looks like we may possibly have the second shock result of the tournament, after the Uruguay game.
Algeria are looking good for their lead ............... for now.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

1-1 - Sideshow Bob scores


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

Belgium were shocking and lucky.


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## DanFST (Jun 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1-1 - Sideshow Bob scores
		
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I thought i'd missed the Brazil game then!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

DanFST said:



			I thought i'd missed the Brazil game then!
		
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There is a few of them - Belguim have a couple


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 17, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Belgium were shocking and lucky.
		
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I didn't see the game but sounds like they weren't very impressive. They were being tipped as the dark horses but I couldn't see it tbh.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

Brazil struggling to unlock a dogged Mexico side.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 17, 2014)

The camera men are doing a cracking job when picking out which Brazilian fans to zoom in on


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 17, 2014)

I know the attacking players get all the focus but as an ex centre half I love watching Thiago Silva. He plays like a cross between an old fashioned sweeper (my favourite position) and a modern day centre back. If defenders ever got a sniff at world player of the year he'd be nailed on. Everything he does oozes class.


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## Slime (Jun 17, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			The camera men are doing a cracking job when picking out which Brazilian fans to zoom in on

Click to expand...

Oh yes!

*
Slime*.


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## NWJocko (Jun 17, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I know the attacking players get all the focus but as an ex centre half I love watching Thiago Silva. He plays like a cross between an old fashioned sweeper (my favourite position) and a modern day centre back. If defenders ever got a sniff at world player of the year he'd be nailed on. Everything he does oozes class.
		
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Agree, exceptional player.


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## richart (Jun 17, 2014)

Mexico look ok. Pass the ball nicely and seem well organized. 

Brazil don't look that great. Am I missing something with Paulinho ? Didn't think he was that good at Spurs, and not sure what he offers.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

Brazil look average.


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## Slime (Jun 17, 2014)

Poor match so far.
That's only the fourth half without a goal in this tournament, I think!


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

Brazil have no cutting edge , poor creativity some very overrated players in Neymar and Oscar 

And Fred is shocking 

Their best player is a centre back.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

Fancy Mexico to nick this 1-0. Their riot police better load up, load up with rubber bullets


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## NWJocko (Jun 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brazil have no cutting edge , poor creativity some very overrated players in Neymar and Oscar 

And Fred is shocking 

Their best player is a centre back.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with the second 2 points.

Neymar has scored something like 24 in his last 29 international games and Oscar was the best player on the pitch in the first game, overrated!?


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## Piece (Jun 17, 2014)

Mexico trying the uber long shot tactics ala Holland in the 1970s!


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## Imurg (Jun 17, 2014)

Just up to the hour mark - can someone explain how there's only been 2 yellow cars in this game so far..?

If they're not taking chunks out of each other they're falling over like they've been shot!

Not a good advert for the game.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Brazil have no cutting edge , poor creativity some very overrated players in Neymar and Oscar 

And Fred is shocking 

Their best player is a centre back.
		
Click to expand...

Neymar has scored 33 goals in 50 appearances for Brazil...he's 22 - and you think he's overrated?

Agree with points 2 & 3


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 17, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Just up to the hour mark - can someone explain how there's only been 2 yellow cars in this game so far..?

If they're not taking chunks out of each other they're falling over like they've been shot!

Not a good advert for the game.
		
Click to expand...

It's like a premier league game without the bookings. Oscar even got away with a tackle from behind in the first half, I guarantee that will be the only one not penalised in the whole tournament


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Neymar has scored 33 goals in 50 appearances for Brazil...he's 22 - and you think he's overrated?

Agree with points 2 & 3
		
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Neymar is hardly being given decent service either. Hard to be effective starved of the ball


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 17, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Neymar has scored 33 goals in 50 appearances for Brazil...he's 22 - and you think he's overrated?

Agree with points 2 & 3
		
Click to expand...

He's also Brazils joint 7th all time top goal scorer,and like you say....only 22
Massively over rated
He's scored the same amount of goals as Ronaldinho in nearly half the games,Ronaldinho wasn't too bad either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

That's a shocking tackle - could have been more but fair play the reaction of both players


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## Slime (Jun 17, 2014)

Some of the spectators are absolutely breath taking ........................... and I'll never be 20yrs old again .


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

What a save !


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## Slime (Jun 17, 2014)

Slime said:



			Some of the spectators are *absolutely breath taking* ........................... and I'll never be 20yrs old again .

*Slime*.
		
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As was that save by Ochoa!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

Keeper has been brilliant all night


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 17, 2014)

Slime said:



			Some of the spectators are absolutely breath taking ........................... and I'll never be 20yrs old again .


*Slime*.
		
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Would you have had a chance with them when you were 20?? 
:rofl:


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 17, 2014)

Slime said:



			As was that save by Ochoa!
		
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It was straight at him, 6" either way he's got no chance. He's earnt that though, he's been excellent


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

Very poor from Brazil - need to play a lot better to get past the better teams.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

Brazil were average. Mexico well organised. A decent enough game for a 0-0 as both sides had chances.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Very poor from Brazil - need to play a lot better to get past the better teams.
		
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That's two games now they've not been good. They were lucky in the first game with some dodgy ref decisions.


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## Slime (Jun 17, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Would you have had a chance with them when you were 20?? 
:rofl:
		
Click to expand...


Go on then, burst my bubble, why dont you .


*Slime*.

P.S. good point, well made ................................... *******!


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## Piece (Jun 17, 2014)

Well played Mexico. Love their food!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 17, 2014)

How did Marcelo get away with that dive


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How did Marcelo get away with that dive
		
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Because he plays for Brazil


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 17, 2014)

If he'd stayed on his feet he'd have scored or squared it to an unmarked man. Justice for a blatant cheat


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## JCW (Jun 18, 2014)

Well is that all the teams have played now , my list goes 
1. worst game .......Iran V Nigeria
2. Best game .........Holland v Spain 
3 Best teams so far , Holland and Germany 
4 Best Win ..........Costa Rica 3-1 , really enjoyed that match 
5 Who is going to win , Holland if there is no in fighting or Germany as they always there abouts 
hope its not Brazil , they get found out against better teams so that leaves Argentina who have a good chance


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 18, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well is that all the teams have played now , my list goes 
1. worst game .......Iran V Nigeria
2. Best game .........Holland v Spain 
3 Best teams so far , Holland and Germany 
4 Best Win ..........Costa Rica 3-1 , really enjoyed that match 
5 Who is going to win , Holland if there is no in fighting or Germany as they always there abouts 
hope its not Brazil , they get found out against better teams so that leaves Argentina who have a good chance
		
Click to expand...

hard to argue with any of that


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## DanFST (Jun 18, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well is that all the teams have played now , my list goes 

5 Who is going to win , Holland if there is no in fighting or Germany as they always there abouts 
hope its not Brazil , they get found out against better teams so that leaves Argentina who have a good chance
		
Click to expand...

Some teams only played there first game last night? Both have played one game, you can't make a decision on that, the winner needs to win 6 more!


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## Beezerk (Jun 18, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			hard to argue with any of that
		
Click to expand...

This is the GM Forum, someone will find a way


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## Slab (Jun 18, 2014)

Anyone know off the top what the deciders are to split teams on same points after goal difference?


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			Anyone know off the top what the deciders are to split teams on same points after goal difference?
		
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I believe that if the team name begins Braz, they automatically go through, they won't care about the other teams!


*Slime*.


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## Birchy (Jun 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			Anyone know off the top what the deciders are to split teams on same points after goal difference?
		
Click to expand...

Goals scored then head to head points record.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			Anyone know off the top what the deciders are to split teams on same points after goal difference?
		
Click to expand...



    The ranking of each team in each group shall be determined as follows:

    a) greatest number of points obtained in all the group matches;

    b) goal difference in the group matches;

    c) greatest number of goals scored in the group matches.

These are the basic rules to determine progression and separate performance.

However, the rulebook continues:

    If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their ranking will be determined as follows:

    d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;

    e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;

    f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;

    g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.


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## Rooter (Jun 18, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Goals scored then head to head points record.
		
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What then if that was even, lets say for arguments sake, all games in the group stage were all 0-0. Every game, what would happen??

Rock, paper, scissors? best of 3?


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## Birchy (Jun 18, 2014)

Rooter said:



			What then if that was even, lets say for arguments sake, all games in the group stage were all 0-0. Every game, what would happen??

Rock, paper, scissors? best of 3?
		
Click to expand...

Fifa will draw the names out of a hat  Or kick them out for being crap/match fixing haha


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## Slab (Jun 18, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The ranking of each team in each group shall be determined as follows:

    a) greatest number of points obtained in all the group matches;

    b) goal difference in the group matches;

    c) greatest number of goals scored in the group matches.

These are the basic rules to determine progression and separate performance.

However, the rulebook continues:

    If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their ranking will be determined as follows:

    d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;

    e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;

    f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;

    g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks, so basically Spain are humped if they draw tonight!


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2014)

Surely there comes a point when it could be decided on discipline. Reds cards, then yellow cards and then fouls committed.
If it's still level, it should be done on stupid haircuts, stupid WAGS or on an ugliness basis.


*Slime*.


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## Birchy (Jun 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			Thanks, so basically Spain are humped if they draw tonight!
		
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Not really, it isn't beyond them to give Australia a good hiding.


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## Slab (Jun 18, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Not really, it isn't beyond them to give Australia a good hiding.
		
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Wouldn't be enough on its own though they'd also need Netherlands/Chile result to fit into to make this work (if Spain draw tonight)


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## Birchy (Jun 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			Wouldn't be enough on its own though they'd also need Netherlands/Chile result to fit into to make this work (if Spain draw tonight)
		
Click to expand...

Yeah they will need some help but they are capable  I think it would depend on how much the Netherlands really wanted them to go through with them or Chile :rofl:


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## Slab (Jun 18, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Yeah they will need some help but they are capable  I think it would depend on *how much the Netherlands really wanted them to go through with them or Chile* :rofl:
		
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That's what I was thinking 

Of course its all hypothetical, maybe they'll get the win they need tonight anyway


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## Birchy (Jun 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			That's what I was thinking 

Of course its all hypothetical, maybe they'll get the win they need tonight anyway
		
Click to expand...

Makes tonights game interesting too I suppose. Had Spain won the first match they could have just played tippy tappy all night and took the draw, they will be going for it tonight though :thup:


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## Piece (Jun 18, 2014)

Cahill. That's the goal of the tournie so far! :thup:


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## Pathetic Shark (Jun 18, 2014)

Rooter said:



			What then if that was even, lets say for arguments sake, all games in the group stage were all 0-0. Every game, what would happen??

Rock, paper, scissors? best of 3?
		
Click to expand...

This nearly happened in England's group in 1990 until we beat Egypt in our final game.  All the other games had ended either 0-0 or 1-1.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2014)

Goodbye Spain


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2014)

It looks like Casillas is knocking Spain out of the World Cup!


*Slime*.


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## JCW (Jun 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Goodbye Spain
		
Click to expand...


The Fat Lady is clearing her throat but has not started singing yet , she may well start in 45 mins time .................take your seats ........................EYG


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## guest100718 (Jun 18, 2014)

the chile keeper is doing his best to keep spain in..


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2014)

Spain are really panic stricken now .............. they've brought Torres on!


*Slime*.


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2014)

I must say, I think the ref is having a really good game.
He's not missed much and tries to let the play flow whenever there may be an advantage!


*Slime*.


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## JCW (Jun 18, 2014)

Spain look a spent force just like Bacelona , same players going on and on for too long , time to change and stop being loyal to the old players , bit like England with Rooney and Lampard , good players with no England future , them playing are keeping out players that have a future , still like to see spain score as that will make a very interesting last 20 mins .......................EYWC


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2014)

JCW said:



			Spain look a spent force just like Bacelona , same players going on and on for too long , time to change and stop being loyal to the old players , bit like England with Rooney and Lampard , good players with no England future , them playing are keeping out players that have a future , still like to see spain score as that will make a very interesting last 20 mins .......................EYWC
		
Click to expand...

1. Spain have a pretty young squad with only a few of the old guard.
2. You forgot to mention Gerrard.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2014)

Just a poor tournament for Spain - they will be back


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## Piece (Jun 18, 2014)

Don't think I've ever seen a fitter side than Chile. So much energy and pace. :thup:

Spain. Slow and no presence up front. Reluctant to shoot or cross the ball. Players out of position. Deserved to go out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 18, 2014)

Piece said:



			Don't think I've ever seen a fitter side than Chile. So much energy and pace. :thup:

Spain. Slow and no presence up front. Reluctant to shoot or cross the ball. Players out of position. Deserved to go out.
		
Click to expand...

Costa was poor

Cant see him doing well in Prem


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## JCW (Jun 18, 2014)

Slime said:



			1. Spain have a pretty young squad with only a few of the old guard.
2. You forgot to mention Gerrard.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah him too , its a human fault , hanging on to a player far to long and as he is captain , thats it he has to play , anyway the fat lady is singing Spain is coming home and not football is coming home , that will come tomorrow when England play , I hope not but it wont surprise me if it did with Roy playing and hanging on to the so called golden generation that won notink  and never look like winning anything .  its a crime when we have a new generation of yes very good young players that need to play as they are the future and they like us are going to watch has beens like the rest of us fail again .....................EYWC


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## Slime (Jun 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just a poor tournament for Spain - *they will be back*

Click to expand...

Not for a long time.
They said as much back in 1970 when England got knocked out!



JCW said:



			Yeah him too , its a human fault , hanging on to a player far to long and as he is captain , thats it he has to play , anyway the fat lady is singing Spain is coming home and not football is coming home , that will come tomorrow when England play , I hope not but it wont surprise me if it did *with Roy playing and hanging on to the so called golden generation that won notink  and never look like winning anything .  its a crime when we have a new generation of yes very good young players that need to play* as they are the future and they like us are going to watch has beens like the rest of us fail again .....................EYWC
		
Click to expand...

What are you talking about?
Gerrard is as good as any English player in his particular role, Rooney is still worth a place in the side, Lampard won't be in the team and the side will be full of young guns such as Sterling, Sturridge, Welbeck, Henderson and Barklay with others such as Lallana and Shaw on the bench!


*Slime*.


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## chrisd (Jun 18, 2014)

Slime said:



			Not for a long time.
They said as much back in 1970 when England got knocked out!



What are you talking about?
Gerrard is as good as any English player in his particular role, Rooney is still worth a place in the side, Lampard won't be in the team and the side will be full of young guns such as Sterling, Sturridge, Welbeck, Henderson and Barklay with others such as Lallana and Shaw on the bench!


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...


....... And Wilshire, otherwise spot on!


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## Beezerk (Jun 19, 2014)

Crikey Spain didn't look bothered at all, seemed like they wanted to go home rather than battle it out!
Wonder if there's trouble within the ranks regarding playing for Costa rather than their usual game.


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## JCW (Jun 19, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Crikey Spain didn't look bothered at all, seemed like they wanted to go home rather than battle it out!
Wonder if there's trouble within the ranks regarding playing for Costa rather than their usual game.
		
Click to expand...

Could be you know as he is not even spainish


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## Crazyface (Jun 19, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Crikey Spain didn't look bothered at all, seemed like they wanted to go home rather than battle it out!
Wonder if there's trouble within the ranks regarding playing for Costa rather than their usual game.
		
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing. Especially when that lad missed the sitter and was grinning like a nutcase.


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## Crazyface (Jun 19, 2014)

PS Is is Holland or The Netherlands.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 19, 2014)

JCW said:



			Yeah him too , its a human fault , hanging on to a player far to long and as he is captain , thats it he has to play , anyway the fat lady is singing Spain is coming home and not football is coming home , that will come tomorrow when England play , I hope not but it wont surprise me if it did with Roy playing and hanging on to the so called golden generation that won notink  and never look like winning anything .  its a crime when we have a new generation of yes very good young players that need to play as they are the future and they like us are going to watch has beens like the rest of us fail again .....................EYWC
		
Click to expand...

You did see the Italy match didn't you and were not watching a rerun of Euro 96 or something?  Hanging on to the golden generation???  By that you mean playing Gerrard?  It's hardly hanging on.  What do you think he's going to do, recall Owen, Beckham and Paul Scholes?


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## Beezerk (Jun 19, 2014)

JCW said:



			Could be you know as he is not even spainish
		
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Hmmm, just read he's born in Brazil, didn't know that.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Hmmm, just read he's born in Brazil, didn't know that.
		
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Did you not wonder why he was booed so much lol. 

I dont think hunk spain would throw it because if that thiugh. They weren't too special at conced cup. Football is cyclical, different styles last a time before being found out and countered.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 19, 2014)

JCW said:



			Yeah him too , its a human fault , hanging on to a player far to long and as he is captain , thats it he has to play , anyway the fat lady is singing Spain is coming home and not football is coming home , that will come tomorrow when England play , I hope not but it wont surprise me if it did with Roy playing and hanging on to the so called golden generation that won notink  and never look like winning anything .  its a crime when we have a new generation of yes very good young players that need to play as they are the future and they like us are going to watch has beens like the rest of us fail again .....................EYWC
		
Click to expand...

From someone who clearly knows nothing about football.
The best thing to do then is not watch.


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## Slime (Jun 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Did you not wonder why he was booed so much lol. 

*I dont think hunk spain would throw it because if that thiugh. They weren't too special at conced cup. *Football is cyclical, different styles last a time before being found out and countered.
		
Click to expand...

Any chance you translate the passage, highlighted in green, into English?
I really have not got a clue what that means.


*Slime*.


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## Imurg (Jun 19, 2014)

At least now if England do go out we can honestly say we put in a better performance than Spain...


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 19, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Hmmm, just read he's born in Brazil, didn't know that.
		
Click to expand...

Seems a few teams in the World Cup have players who were not born in the country, and even who have played for other countries before playing for the team they now play for.  Then again I suppose the English cricket team has always done this, so we should not really complain.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			Any chance you translate the passage, highlighted in green, into English?
I really have not got a clue what that means.

*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

He didn't think incredible hulk who now plays for Spain would throw the game as he hurt his thigh?  And the Specials were not very good at the World Cup concert?


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 19, 2014)

Uruguayan TV advert mocks Suarez image...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-27919896


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

Slime said:



			Any chance you translate the passage, highlighted in green, into English?
I really have not got a clue what that means.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Iphone autocorrect and tired eyes are good!

basically I didn't think that Spain would through the game as has been suggested because of costa. Too many winers in the team to do that. Also, they were gash in the confederations cup last year.


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## cookelad (Jun 19, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			Hmmm, just read he's born in Brazil, didn't know that.
		
Click to expand...

Could be wrong on this but I think he played for Brazil a couple of times!


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## gdunc79 (Jun 19, 2014)

Anybody changing their mind on their winners then after what you have seen so far? I went for Argentina but fancy Germany and even France to do quite well now.


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			PS Is is Holland or The Netherlands.
		
Click to expand...


We all say Holland but it is the Netherlands. There is no country named Holland. Holland (north & south) are 2 of 12 provinces in the Netherlands. 

If you're from Holland you're a Hollander and if you're from any other province you're Dutch.  

Hope that helps.


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## guest100718 (Jun 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			We all say Holland but it is the Netherlands. There is no country named Holland. Holland (north & south) are 2 of 12 provinces in the Netherlands. 

If you're from Holland you're a Hollander and if you're from any other province you're Dutch.  

Hope that helps. 

Click to expand...

wikipedia thanks you.


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			wikipedia thanks you.
		
Click to expand...


Close. Unfortunately no cigar for Paddy though.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 19, 2014)

Regardless of what happens I hope the FA stick with Hodgeson.


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## chrisd (Jun 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Iphone autocorrect and tired eyes are good!

basically I didn't think that Spain would through the game as has been suggested because of costa. Too many winers in the team to do that. Also, they were gash in the confederations cup last year.
		
Click to expand...

I'm still struggling with that?????


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I'm still struggling with that?????
		
Click to expand...

I am having a mare. 
I swear my phone has a mind of its own. Will proof read this one. 

Somebody suggested the Spanish may not have tried due to not wanting a nationalised player (costa). 

I tried and failed twice to say " I don't think Spain would throw the game because of costa. They have too many winners and I don't believe  they would do it. They also struggled in the confederations cup. I think it's the end of an era. Football is cyclical and the era of Spain's tic a tap style is coming to an end".


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I am having a mare. 
I swear my phone has a mind of its own. Will proof read this one. 

Somebody suggested the Spanish may not have tried due to not wanting a nationalised player (costa). 

I tried and failed twice to say " I don't think Spain would throw the game because of costa. They have too many winners and I don't believe  they would do it. They also struggled in the confederations cup. I think it's the end of an era. Football is cyclical and the era of Spain's tic a tap style is coming to an end".
		
Click to expand...

I preferred the first version myself.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I preferred the first version myself.

Click to expand...

Be nice, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 19, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Anybody changing their mind on their winners then after what you have seen so far? I went for Argentina but fancy Germany and even France to do quite well now.
		
Click to expand...

Yup, not fancying Spain so much now...


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 19, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Be nice, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry! 

Click to expand...

Well I was going to argue that I don't think it's the end of ticy tacky or whatever it is called, but it's just Spain and Barcelona (as both teams are very similar in make up) do not have the players of sufficient quality to do it now.  

Xavi and Inesta who were the main architects of it are past their peak, and no one is good enough to do  to the standard they did. But if you found a bunch of players who had the skills to do it like Spain have had for a few years then that team would be pretty hard to beat.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2014)

I still wouldn't write Spain or Barcelona off yet in regards their tactics - they took the wrong strikers - should have taken Llorente and Negredo and Negredo should have started. Costa is ( as well as being Brazilian ) overrated - decent enough target man who had one good season - he won't score many in the prem if he goes to Chelsea. Losing Thiago wasn't helpful because he brings a lot of energy as well as great skill on the ball. And the keeper was very poor because he hasn't played all season long - players like Pique have suffered with confidence all season long - EC2016 they will be challenging again IMO


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Well I was going to argue that I don't think it's the end of ticy tacky or whatever it is called, but it's just Spain and Barcelona (as both teams are very similar in make up) do not have the players of sufficient quality to do it now.  

Xavi and Inesta who were the main architects of it are past their peak, and no one is good enough to do  to the standard they did. But if you found a bunch of players who had the skills to do it like Spain have had for a few years then that team would be pretty hard to beat.
		
Click to expand...

Thats a fair point. But I believe generally different styles had periods of dominance. For me, I believe teams took a while to get their heads around the tactics. They'd be chasing the ball as they weren't used to giving up so much possession. Now the teams taking over at least in cl, appear happier to let teams keep ball in own half then press heavily as soon as half way line ready to counter. 

People le used to think the power of arsenal was unbeatable when they had big players. Now wenger doesn't want anyone above 6ft lol.


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## rosecott (Jun 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			We all say Holland but it is the Netherlands. There is no country named Holland. Holland (north & south) are 2 of 12 provinces in the Netherlands. 

If you're from Holland you're a Hollander and if you're from any other province you're Dutch.  

Hope that helps. 

Click to expand...

You could also be from Holland in Lincolnshire.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I still wouldn't write Spain or Barcelona off yet in regards their tactics - they took the wrong strikers - should have taken Llorente and Negredo and Negredo should have started. Costa is ( as well as being Brazilian ) overrated - decent enough target man who had one good season - he won't score many in the prem if he goes to Chelsea. Losing Thiago wasn't helpful because he brings a lot of energy as well as great skill on the ball. And the keeper was very poor because he hasn't played all season long - players like Pique have suffered with confidence all season long - EC2016 they will be challenging again IMO
		
Click to expand...

Im not saying they've no hope. But I think the fear factor will be gone. I remember watching quite few of barcas games during their pomp that would finish 4-5 nil and they'd score them all in second half. I think since teams have got wise to their tactics it's become more difficult. They'll still compete just don't believe they'll dominate. I agree negredo should have gone, but in place of Torres not costa, he may be a one season wonder. But still deserved his chance above fernando. Sentiment has harmed Spain in a few positions. 

I  think it's shown that they style of footy needs a striker at their peak, Spain have struggled since Torres decline and barca weren't as dominant with messi have a poor (by his standard) season.


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

Colombia looking good to go through now.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I still wouldn't write Spain or Barcelona off yet in regards their tactics - they took the wrong strikers - should have taken Llorente and Negredo and Negredo should have started. Costa is ( as well as being Brazilian ) overrated - decent enough target man who had one good season - he won't score many in the prem if he goes to Chelsea. Losing Thiago wasn't helpful because he brings a lot of energy as well as great skill on the ball. And the keeper was very poor because he hasn't played all season long - players like Pique have suffered with confidence all season long - EC2016 they will be challenging again IMO
		
Click to expand...

You do know Costa finished 2nd highest scorer in La Liga (behind a none Spaniard) 
Won the League whilst playing for a team who were rank outsiders.
Got to the CL Final. 
That's probably why they took him:thup:

Saying what players should have played after a team fails is like picking a bet after knowing the results come in. It holds no merit :thup:


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## JCW (Jun 19, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			You do know Costa finished 2nd highest scorer in La Liga (behind a none Spaniard) 


Won the League whilst playing for a team who were rank outsiders.



Got to the CL Final. 
That's probably why they took him:thup:

Saying what players should have played after a team fails is like picking a bet after knowing the results come in. It holds no merit :thup:
		
Click to expand...



Its Liverpool Phil , has something to say about everything , must be after homers posting record


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 19, 2014)

Turns out the officials are from Spain. Coincidence that's the same language as Uruguay. What odds a dodgy decision or their players influencing the officials to get a player booked/sent off. FIFA clearly have it in for us since we moaned about Blatter being corrupt (allegedly)


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Turns out the officials are from Spain. Coincidence that's the same language as Uruguay. What odds a dodgy decision or their players influencing the officials to get a player booked/sent off. FIFA clearly have it in for us since we moaned about Blatter being corrupt (allegedly)
		
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Jeezo, I'm willing to bet a healthy amount of the officials speak English, does that mean they would favour English speaking nations?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Turns out the officials are from Spain. Coincidence that's the same language as Uruguay. What odds a dodgy decision or their players influencing the officials to get a player booked/sent off. FIFA clearly have it in for us since we moaned about Blatter being corrupt (allegedly)
		
Click to expand...

Throw Suarez's antics into the equation & it's worrying


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Turns out the officials are from Spain. Coincidence that's the same language as Uruguay. What odds a dodgy decision or their players influencing the officials to get a player booked/sent off. FIFA clearly have it in for us since we moaned about Blatter being corrupt (allegedly)
		
Click to expand...

Paranoia much? The Croatia players complained because their ref against Brazil was one of a few that didn't speak English. I'm sure they'll all understand us!


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 19, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Turns out the officials are from Spain. Coincidence that's the same language as Uruguay. What odds a dodgy decision or their players influencing the officials to get a player booked/sent off. FIFA clearly have it in for us since we moaned about Blatter being corrupt (allegedly)
		
Click to expand...

I thought all officials had to speak English (not sure where I heard that though)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I thought all officials had to speak English (not sure where I heard that though)
		
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Graham Poll has mentioned that as well


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

As an aside, it wouldn't be a bad thing for peeps in this nation to learn other languages; instead of relying on others to speak ours! 

A bit late for most, but it should be a must for school kids nowadays.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			As an aside, it wouldn't be a bad thing for peeps in this nation to learn other languages; instead of relying on others to speak ours! 

A bit late for most, but it should be a must for school kids nowadays.
		
Click to expand...

I agree


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## JCW (Jun 19, 2014)

The spainish dont much like the brits so Englands coming home , well not yet , they will win tonight


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			As an aside, it wouldn't be a bad thing for peeps in this nation to learn other languages; instead of relying on others to speak ours! 

A bit late for most, but it should be a must for school kids nowadays.
		
Click to expand...

We were taught French in school ( hated it  ) but learned Greek when living in Cyrpus - but not used it for ten years and forgotten most of it bar the normal greetings and swear words


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, I heard that the ref had a great great great great great great great grandad or something that was a cabin boy in the Armada, a cousin who's local bar in Majorca was put out of business by a Linekers bar and has a soft spot for the Scots................so you can clearly see the games a foregone conclusion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Well, I heard that the ref had a great great great great great great great grandad or something that was a cabin boy in the Armada, a cousin who's local bar in Majorca was put out of business by a Linekers bar and has a soft spot for the Scots................so you can clearly see the games a foregone conclusion. 

Click to expand...

:rofl:

But did Ken Barlow marry Deidrie again !


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We were taught French in school ( hated it  ) but learned Greek when living in Cyrpus - but not used it for ten years and forgotten most of it bar the normal greetings and swear words 

Click to expand...

I was never interested in French at school, picked up a fair bit of foreign languages (swear words n all) when working abroad. Laziness on my part means I've forgotten practically everything I taught myself though.


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## c1973 (Jun 19, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

But did Ken Barlow marry Deidrie again !
		
Click to expand...


He might, when he returns.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			As an aside, it wouldn't be a bad thing for peeps in this nation to learn other languages; instead of relying on others to speak ours! 

A bit late for most, but it should be a must for school kids nowadays.
		
Click to expand...

I think abroad they study English because it is still so commonly used throughout the world. Whilst a second language may come in handy when on a holiday. Unless you immigrate it's not generally needed. I'm don't expect anyone to speak English when am on hols and try to lean the basics. But, working in transport I can tell you there are just as many Europeans who understand no English.


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## Piece (Jun 19, 2014)

There was a bit of amusement from the commentators at the Ivory Coast v Columbia game this afternoon, taking the mick out of Serey Die crying his eyes out during the national anthem...

...turns out his father died and he was told two hours before kick-off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 19, 2014)

Piece said:



			There was a bit of amusement from the commentators at the Ivory Coast v Columbia game this afternoon, taking the kick out of Serey Die crying his eyes out during the national anthem...

...turns out his father died and he was told two hours before kick-off. 

Click to expand...

Thats very sad - think they took the mick out of his theatrics as well


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## Foxholer (Jun 19, 2014)

c1973 said:



			As an aside, it wouldn't be a bad thing for peeps in this nation to learn other languages; instead of relying on others to speak ours!
		
Click to expand...

Nah! The solution, if they don't understand English, is to simply speak louder! 

Besides, in many regions, proper English is a foreign language anyway! And any sort of English is foreign in some areas too!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2014)

France look a very powerful team in the middle of the park 

Managing to make Giroud half decent


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## Imurg (Jun 20, 2014)

So I thought Switzerland were supposed to be decent..??


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 20, 2014)

Imurg said:



			So I thought Switzerland were supposed to be decent..??
		
Click to expand...


I would suggest it's a bit of a false report - they are proof that the world rankings can't be trusted. They had a decent period and a run of games but they are certainly not a top ten team and certainly shouldn't have been a seed but their qualifying gave them the chance


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## Piece (Jun 20, 2014)

Imurg said:



			So I thought Switzerland were supposed to be decent..??
		
Click to expand...

This is an absolute slapping...


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## richart (Jun 20, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would suggest it's a bit of a false report - they are proof that the world rankings can't be trusted. They had a decent period and a run of games but they are certainly not a top ten team and certainly shouldn't have been a seed but their qualifying gave them the chance
		
Click to expand...

 but they can still qualify if they beat Honduras in their next game.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 21, 2014)

Iran giving the Argies one hell of a game here. They could easily be ahead in the second half. They are putting England's pathetic efforts to shame.


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## Sponge1980 (Jun 21, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Iran giving the Argies one hell of a game here. They could easily be ahead in the second half. They are putting England's pathetic efforts to shame.
		
Click to expand...

That was a real kick in the nuts. Great goal though.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 21, 2014)

Sponge1980 said:



			That was a real kick in the nuts. Great goal though.
		
Click to expand...

Gutted for them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 21, 2014)

Messi is getting better as the competition progresses. Great strike


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## chrisd (Jun 21, 2014)

Quality goal, all the top players seem to be coming good


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 21, 2014)

There seems to be a depressing precedent where the smaller teams will get very little against the bigger teams.  That was a pen for Iran all day long, there's no way the ref could have seen the faintest of touches the Argie got on the ball before he hacked the Iranian over in the penalty area.  

But I'm guessing it's just a coincidence that the it would be great for the sponsors/TV revenue/FIFA/TV companies if all the big teams progressed and we got rid of the cannon fodder as soon as possible. They do their best by all but rigging the draw to ensure that, so why stop there


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## Dodger (Jun 21, 2014)

A game against Iran in a World Cup is never ever easy......:smirk:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 21, 2014)

Dodger said:



			A game against Iran in a World Cup is never ever easy......:smirk:
		
Click to expand...

1-1 was a good result


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 21, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Messi is getting better as the competition progresses. Great strike
		
Click to expand...

It was a great strike but I wouldn't say he is getting better, that was pretty much all he did, for 92 minutes, he was very disappointing


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## Piece (Jun 22, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			It was a great strike but I wouldn't say he is getting better, that was pretty much all he did, for 92 minutes, he was very disappointing
		
Click to expand...

Seconded...but that seems to be difference. Shame Rooney et al can't produce that moment of quality when needed.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 22, 2014)

Glad to see many peoples dark horses are lighting the place up. 

Lukaku may have answered why Jose doesn't want him too. Has done nithing all game the moans at manager when taken off.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 22, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			It was a great strike but I wouldn't say he is getting better, that was pretty much all he did, for 92 minutes, he was very disappointing
		
Click to expand...

At the end of the day that's all it needs and Argentina found a way to get a result


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## Dodger (Jun 22, 2014)

I said on here that Belgium were a nothing team.

They do however have a few EPL players who get hyped up but in reality they are not actually that great a side.

They need shot of they can't get out of that group mind.


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## Stuart_C (Jun 22, 2014)

Dodger said:



			I said on here that Belgium were a nothing team.

They do however have a few EPL players who get hyped up but in reality they are not actually that great a side.

They need shot of they can't get out of that group mind.
		
Click to expand...

They're through now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2014)

Algeria and South Korea was a cracking game 

Portugal one up but USA are playing quite well


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## One Planer (Jun 22, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Algeria and South Korea was a cracking game 

Portugal one up but USA are playing quite well
		
Click to expand...

The Ghana vs Germany match was a corker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 22, 2014)

Gareth said:



			The Ghana vs Germany match was a corker.
		
Click to expand...


Haven't seen it  was at a meal with the parents and future in laws


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## palindromicbob (Jun 23, 2014)

Wow just Wow. 

USA! USA! USA! Lol

What a cleat rocket from Jermaine Jones from outside the danger box zone. No chance of a hand denial for the Portugaleze goal tender.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 23, 2014)

Yo the soccer guys.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 23, 2014)

Brazil have arrived


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 23, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Brazil have arrived
		
Click to expand...

Or more likely that they are playing a really poor side.  Had enough of the commentator trying to convince everyone they are watching the Brazil side from 1970s when in reality they look slightly better than average side with one outstanding player.  

This will probably come back to haunt me, but I think a half decent side would beat them relatively easily.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 23, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Or more likely that they are playing a really poor side.  Had enough of the commentator trying to convince everyone they are watching the Brazil side from 1970s when in reality they look slightly better than average side with one outstanding player.  

This will probably come back to haunt me, but I think a half decent side would beat them relatively easily.
		
Click to expand...

You're probably right. Cameroon do look mediocre (so 0-0 if they played England right now) but nice to see the Brazilians playing with pace and flair going forward. Defensively they look poor but Scolari going for the "we're going to get one more than you" option it seems


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 23, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Or more likely that they are playing a really poor side.  Had enough of the commentator trying to convince everyone they are watching the Brazil side from 1970s when in reality they look slightly better than average side with one outstanding player.  

This will probably come back to haunt me, but I think a half decent side would beat them relatively easily.
		
Click to expand...

Any team with a semi decent cohesive attacking unit will rip the back 4 apart - Silva is a decent CB and Alves is ok defensively but Marcelo and Luiz are shockingly poor


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 23, 2014)

I've never rated Luiz even as a Chelsea player and looks fragile in the Brazil shirt. Definitely need to score plenty of goals going forward to compensate for the ones they'll let in


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## Beezerk (Jun 24, 2014)

So how far offside was Fred when he scored his goal?
Shocker by the linesman...hmmmm!


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Brazil have arrived
		
Click to expand...

Neymar was showboating against a poor team. Someone like France or Holland would have a field day against that back four who, Silva aside, are average at best.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 24, 2014)

Best 2 players of the tournament so far as to be Robben & Neymar.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've never rated Luiz even as a Chelsea player and looks fragile in the Brazil shirt. Definitely need to score plenty of goals going forward to compensate for the ones they'll let in
		
Click to expand...

Still can't believe Chelsea got Â£50m for him.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 24, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Still can't believe Chelsea got Â£50m for him.
		
Click to expand...

I know, some clubs have more money than sense.


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## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I know, some clubs have more money than sense.

Click to expand...

Yeah, imagine paying 30 mil for andy carrol


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 24, 2014)

Beezerk said:



			So how far offside was Fred when he scored his goal?
Shocker by the linesman...hmmmm!
		
Click to expand...

Brazil have certainly been on the right side of some decisions haven't they. Mind you, it was the only way Fred was gonna score.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Yeah, imagine paying 30 mil for andy carrol
		
Click to expand...

35 mill actually, not good on facts are you paddy.

see john o Shea is off to the lane, when is the big unveiling? 33 years old, he might need an early night.


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## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			35 mill actually, not good on facts are you paddy.

see john o Shea is off to the lane, when is the big unveiling? 33 years old, he might need an early night.
		
Click to expand...

And a cup of horlicks

Last I heard is he is happy staying oop north.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			And a cup of horlicks

Last I heard is he is happy staying oop north.
		
Click to expand...

You not believing the bastion of integrity that is HM flagship site football365?

shame on you.


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## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			You not believing the bastion of integrity that is HM flagship site football365?

shame on you.
		
Click to expand...

What do you want me to say? 

I read the rumour that we want to buy him, then a 2nd one saying he is happy to stay in Sunderland.....


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			What do you want me to say? 

I read the rumour that we want to buy him, then a 2nd one saying he is happy to stay in Sunderland.....
		
Click to expand...

Your just the gift that keeps on giving, paddy.:thup:


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## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Your just the gift that keeps on giving, paddy.:thup:
		
Click to expand...

hmmm and you are uninteligable scouser


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 24, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			hmmm and you are uninteligable scouser
		
Click to expand...

 I would have written it as:-

Hmmm and you are an unintelligible scouser. 

Just so that the grammar and spelling looked better.


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## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			I would have written it as:-

Hmmm and you are an unintelligible scouser. 

Just so that the grammar and spelling looked better.

Click to expand...

I keep it simple for you.


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## gdunc79 (Jun 24, 2014)

Italy or Uruguay then? Neither look particularly impressive....I suppose it just depends on whether Suarez gets a chance or two....

I still fancy France to go quite far.


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## guest100718 (Jun 24, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Italy or Uruguay then? Neither look particularly impressive....I suppose it just depends on whether Suarez gets a chance or two....

I still fancy France to go quite far.
		
Click to expand...

Italy to qualify, France do look decent. Lets hope the knockout produces as good a matches as the groups have,


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## Slime (Jun 24, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



*Italy or Uruguay then?* Neither look particularly impressive....I suppose it just depends on whether Suarez gets a chance or two....

I still fancy France to go quite far.
		
Click to expand...

I'm not fussed as I don't care for either of them.
Hopefully Suarez will do well, just to encourage the interest in him from Spain.


*Slime*.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 24, 2014)

gdunc79 said:



			Italy or Uruguay then? Neither look particularly impressive....I suppose it just depends on whether Suarez gets a chance or two....

I still fancy France to go quite far.
		
Click to expand...

I really don't care TBH.


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## Slime (Jun 24, 2014)

Slime said:



			I'm not fussed as I don't care for either of them.
*Hopefully Suarez will do well,* just to encourage the interest in him from Spain.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...


He's done better than, he's gone and bit another player!
He has to be sorted out. Liverpoll have to act ................................. NOW!
Made my world cup, that has.
Can't wait to see the fallout from this.


*Slime*.


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## Snelly (Jun 24, 2014)

Suarez a disgrace he's got mental problems.

England were pathetic. Just not good enough.


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## Piece (Jun 24, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Suarez a disgrace he's got mental problems.

England were pathetic. Just not good enough.
		
Click to expand...

Yup, England had no bite up front. Really didn't get our teeth into this tournament. Looking at the group, perhaps we bit off more than we could chew.

Etc.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 24, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Suarez a disgrace he's got mental problems.

England were pathetic. Just not good enough.
		
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Not one England player could be happy with their overall performance at the WC. Pathetic is the only way to describe it.


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## standrew (Jun 24, 2014)

I think English delusional arrogance is well and truly buried.


Until the next 5-0 win against Andorra.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 24, 2014)

standrew said:



			I think English delusional arrogance is well and truly buried.


Until the next 5-0 win against Andorra.
		
Click to expand...

Are you related to Ally Mcloud?..


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## standrew (Jun 24, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Are you related to Ally Mcloud?..
		
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You still believe youre world beaters? Cmon mate.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 24, 2014)

standrew said:



			You still believe youre world beaters? Cmon mate.
		
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Never said that??? For the rec.Far from it....Just askin if you remember Ally's tartan army going to the Argentine...Was that the last time you qualified?


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## standrew (Jun 24, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Never said that??? For the rec.Far from it....Just askin if you remember Ally's tartan army going to the Argentine...Was that the last time you qualified?
		
Click to expand...

'you' qualified??

Just sayin a bit less misplaced arrogance is the way forward for England.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 24, 2014)

standrew said:



			'you' qualified??

Bit raw still obviously. Just sayin a bit less arrogance is the way forward for England.
		
Click to expand...

Look,it aint arrogance..We qualified, you didn't.Maybe it is raw.Is that bad?Furthermore, i more or less said,on here we were crap....Alex Salmond is the King of arrogance..I guess Ally never was circa '78'


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## standrew (Jun 24, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Look,it aint arrogance..We qualified, you didn't.Maybe it is raw.Is that bad?Furthermore, i more or less said,on here we were crap....Alex Salmond is the King of arrogance..I guess Ally never was circa '78'
		
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Random comment but i agree re Salmond.
Scotland Wales, NI know they are **** mate, now its good that English fans have slightly more realistic expectations shall we say.

I enjoyed the England Italy performance.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 24, 2014)

standrew said:



			You still believe youre world beaters? Cmon mate.
		
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Not sure anyone said we were world beaters. But we were also pretty chuffed with our win over World Cup winners and away draw in Brazil in last couple of years.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 24, 2014)

standrew said:



			Random comment but i agree re Salmond.
Scotland Wales, NI know they are **** mate, now its good that English fans have slightly more realistic expectations shall we say.

I enjoyed the England Italy performance.
		
Click to expand...

I'm a random guy..Beats ordinary..


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## standrew (Jun 24, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			I'm a random guy..Beats ordinary..

Click to expand...

Shouldve laced yer boots.

Seriously we live in a cold climate, if we had a sunny climate more outdoor sports would be undertaken.Good indoor facilities should be a top priority for training imo.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2014)

A weak England side got a draw. No need to get the flags out but there was some positives in todays performance.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A weak England side got a draw. No need to get the flags out but there was some positives in todays performance.
		
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Oh dear.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Oh dear.
		
Click to expand...

We didn't concede! The squad players (and lets be honest that's what some are) did ok and it shows we have some strength in depth now


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## Dodger (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We didn't concede! The squad players (and lets be honest that's what some are) did ok and it shows we have some strength in depth now
		
Click to expand...


The biggest plus point is today's Suarez incident.

Tomorrow's headlines will be all about the little scumbag and not about England's worst World Cup Finals showing in their history.

Roy will be pleased.


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## FairwayDodger (Jun 24, 2014)

Well done England, a solid draw to end the World Cup on a high. 

:rofl:


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## standrew (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			we have some strength in depth now
		
Click to expand...

Three good goalkeepers compared to none in 2010 defo.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 24, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Well done England, a solid draw to end the World Cup on a high. 

:rofl:
		
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Thanks flower.your support means a lot


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2014)

Not enjoying the games tonight. Bit stop start in both.


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## standrew (Jun 24, 2014)

that ivory coast shaker is so freaky


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not enjoying the games tonight. Bit stop start in both.
		
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I went to watch my 6yr old son play football instead of watching the England game. The Mrs offered to take him so I could watch the match,I couldn't decline quick enough.


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## JCW (Jun 24, 2014)

Watch the cricket , what a fight back by England , real shame .....................better then the england at football


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I went to watch my 6yr old son play football instead of watching the England game. The Mrs offered to take him so I could watch the match,I couldn't decline quick enough.
		
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Watched the first half of England then went to the club. Course to myself for nine holes. Mrs H came out for a stroll in the sun. Beer on the patio and home via local eaterie and few pints of Badger


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## Rumpokid (Jun 24, 2014)

Guess its a good job we did not go through..we'd have been faced with the prospect of Greece or Columbia, giants in world football..What a cock up by us...


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## Piece (Jun 24, 2014)

Jap v Col was a tidy game. Japan playing good quick football but couldn't finish for toffee, unlike Columbia. Their two upfront, James and Jackson (solid Columbian names ) are names to watch.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 24, 2014)

Real twist in the tail in the Greece game with that injury time penalty


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## c1973 (Jun 25, 2014)

Never a penalty in a million years. Big Conchita kicked the ground and went down like he'd been shot. Should have been booked for simulation imo.

Poor decisions by officials are the only real bad thing about this tourney. They're costing teams dearly, whether it be getting knocked out or finishing 2nd instead of 1st. Pity as it's been a great tourney so far.


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## c1973 (Jun 25, 2014)

Plenty goals in the Argies game........and I've managed to miss every one of them!


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

It really starts now. 
Brazil v Chile as been a good game so far. Neymar is quality.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It really starts now. 
Brazil v Chile as been a good game so far. Neymar is quality.
		
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Looked like a harsh handball decision on hulk, would like to see it again. Mind you, it was also probably the luckiest finish in the WC so far


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Looked like a harsh handball decision on hulk, would like to see it again. Mind you, it was also probably the luckiest finish in the WC so far
		
Click to expand...

Agree on both counts.


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## Slime (Jun 28, 2014)

Great game though.
I think Webb is having a good game, letting some degree of physicality into the game.

Come on Chile!


*Slime*.


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## chrisd (Jun 28, 2014)

Slime said:



			I think Webb is having a good game, 




*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Not a phrase I managed to use this year!


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## Slime (Jun 28, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Not a phrase I managed to use this year!
		
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I think you can use it today, Chris.

Yes - No ................................... delete as applicable.


*Slime*.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 28, 2014)

I hope the England team are watching this because this is the level they need to reach just to get through round 2. We are miles away


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I hope the England team are watching this because this is the level they need to reach just to get through round 2. We are miles away
		
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Scary isn't it. Not one England player looks good enough.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

Not bad when you can bring Willian on in extra time.


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## Jack_bfc (Jun 28, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I hope the England team are watching this because this is the level they need to reach just to get through round 2. We are miles away
		
Click to expand...

Brazils pass rate worse then England's and the worse they have been since 66!!!!!

Funny things stats!!!


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## chrisd (Jun 28, 2014)

Slime said:



			I think you can use it today, Chris.

Yes - No ................................... delete as applicable.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

To be fair .................. I'd grudgingly say YES


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not bad when you can bring Willian on in extra time.
		
Click to expand...


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## Slime (Jun 28, 2014)

Great game. I feel sorry for Chile, 3" makes a helluva difference.


*Slime*.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

Agree with slime,excellent game of football played in a good manor. 
Feel for Chile,but they did their country proud.


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## gripitripit (Jun 28, 2014)

Great by Chile....it was a case of they lost it and Brazil got lucky. Brazil did not do enough to deserve the win on merit.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 28, 2014)

gripitripit said:



			Great by Chile....it was a case of they lost it and Brazil got lucky. Brazil did not do enough to deserve the win on merit.
		
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Brazil haven't done enough to get this far on merit, but they are still going.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 28, 2014)

How unlucky were Chile to rattle the bar so close to full time in extra time. Brazil v Uruguay in the next round would be a tasty (oops Suarez isn't there) encounter


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## Slime (Jun 28, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			How unlucky were Chile to rattle the bar so close to full time in extra time. *Brazil v Uruguay in the next round would be a tasty* (oops Suarez isn't there) encounter
		
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Damn straight.
The problem is, for that to happen, Uruguay must win tonight.
I really want those 'bite deniers' to get knocked out as soon as possible though, but that's just me.


*Slime*.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

I think Colombia will be too good for Uruguay. 
Can't see many people being too upset to see Uruguay get knocked out.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			I think Colombia will be too good for Uruguay. 
Can't see many people being too upset to see Uruguay get knocked out.
		
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Some one needs to start a poll: who as got the fittest fans? 
Surely Colombia are up there


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## JCW (Jun 28, 2014)

Brazil were unlucky with the handball but got lucky in the end and again in the shootout , the better teams will put them out , watching the other game now and the lack of bite in the game is showing , pens again ?


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## Rumpokid (Jun 28, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Some one needs to start a poll: who as got the fittest fans? 
Surely Colombia are up there

Click to expand...

Didn't do a poll, but did start a thread on this most important matter..


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

James Rodriguez tek a bow son :clap:


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## Slime (Jun 28, 2014)

WOW ................................ just WOW!


*Slime*.


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## Piece (Jun 28, 2014)

Piece said:



			Jap v Col was a tidy game. Japan playing good quick football but couldn't finish for toffee, unlike Columbia. Their two upfront, *James* and Jackson (solid Columbian names ) are names to watch.
		
Click to expand...

nuff said...brilliant goal!


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 28, 2014)

Piece said:



			nuff said...brilliant goal! 

Click to expand...

TouchÃ©


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## c1973 (Jun 28, 2014)

I think Colombia are capable of putting Brazil out on Friday, not a bad team at all.


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## Fish (Jun 28, 2014)

c1973 said:



			I think Colombia are capable of putting Brazil out on Friday, not a bad team at all.
		
Click to expand...

I backed Columbia tonight and I'll be backing them against Braaaasil also.


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## c1973 (Jun 29, 2014)

Fish said:



			I backed Columbia tonight and I'll be backing them against Braaaasil also.
		
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I never backed any teams yesterday, thought Chile might do it and Columbia were favourite against Uruguay (without Suarez), took Uruguay at 12s to reach final .


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## Beezerk (Jun 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Brazil were unlucky with the handball
		
Click to expand...

Do you think? I thought it was a clear handball.
Not quite sure how Fred and to some degree Hulk get a shirt for Brazil, they may as well play with 10 men for the majority of games.
Can't see Brazil going all the way there's far better teams in the tournament, the Colombia game should be a cracker.


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Didn't do a poll, but did start a thread on this most important matter..

Click to expand...




We have a winner :whoo:


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## c1973 (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



View attachment 11294

We have a winner :whoo:
		
Click to expand...


Maybe, maybe not.....


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Maybe, maybe not.....

View attachment 11295

Click to expand...

Not bad but I'm sticking with the Colombian


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## c1973 (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not bad but I'm sticking with the Colombian

Click to expand...


Wanna swap at full time?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Wanna swap at full time? 

Click to expand...

:rofl: go on then.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

There is a huge disregard for the South American teams from the pundits.

Outwith Brazil and Argentina that is.


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## c1973 (Jun 29, 2014)

Yep, the European teams are (in the main) getting a lesson in how to play football. 

I'm hoping Mexico can hold on here against the Dutch.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 29, 2014)

Mexico looking good to go through. Dutch seem to be struggling, maybe in the heat and humidity. I can see Columbia beating Brazil


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## Slime (Jun 29, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Yep, the European teams are (in the main) getting a lesson in how to play football. 

I'm hoping Mexico can hold on here against the Dutch.
		
Click to expand...


Oooops.


*Slime*.


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## Slime (Jun 29, 2014)

Double ooops!


*Slime*.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 29, 2014)

Shows what I know. Great comeback


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

The Dutch have been poor today and for me the Mexican's can feel hard done by.

Been some great games in this World Cup so far. Looking forward to hearing the pundits right off Costa Rica next.:smirk:


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## c1973 (Jun 29, 2014)

Oh well, looks like Mexico have let themselves down again.  The Oranje may well get over that final hurdle this year.


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## Slime (Jun 29, 2014)

I have to feel sorry for Mexico ......................... Robben doesn't and won't ever change.
Definitely don't want him at Old Trafford!


*Slime*.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			I have to feel sorry for Mexico ......................... Robben doesn't and won't ever change.
Definitely don't want him at Old Trafford!


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Penalty all day long.Sure he made the most of it but tell me who doesn't. Stonewaller.


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## Slime (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Penalty all day long.Sure he made the most of it but tell me who doesn't. Stonewaller.
		
Click to expand...

Not for me. 
Contact was minimal at best, certainly not enough to bring him down, ergo he dived.


*Slime*.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			Not for me. 
Contact was minimal at best, certainly not enough to bring him down, ergo he dived.


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

Contact......there's the clue.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 29, 2014)

Just because there is contact in the box shouldn't mean it's a pen

Robben will always throw himself around - out of the three pen shouts only the second one was a pen for me


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Contact......there's the clue.

Click to expand...

But who instigated the contact?

I understood the Rules now say that if a player (in this case Robben) instigates the contact in an attempt to be awarded a penalty he should be issued with a caution (yellow card).

As the Mexican player's foot was already planted and Robben then made deliberate contact he should not have been rewarded with a penalty kick.

Put another way; once a diver always a diver.


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

Penalty all day long.

The Ref got it 100% correct.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Penalty all day long.

The Ref got it 100% correct.
		
Click to expand...

I agree although the one in the first half not given when the Mexican was almost decapitated by the high feet was a poor decision. Outside the box and its a direct free kick all day so why not inside?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Penalty all day long.

The Ref got it 100% correct.
		
Click to expand...

As my old Dad would have said:

"Never in a month of Sundays!"


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## Slime (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Contact......there's the clue.

Click to expand...

Football is NOT a non-contact sport ................... yet.
Robben was not brought down, he dived .......... there's the clue.


*Slime*.


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## richy (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Contact......there's the clue.

Click to expand...

I thought it was a contact sport?


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

Just because the defender didn't swipe through and kick his legs away doesn't mean it's not a penalty.

The commentators and pundits say he should've went down and got pens before he did,then he goes down,gets a pen,they slate him. 

You couldn't make it up.


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## Golfmmad (Jun 29, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			But who instigated the contact?

I understood the Rules now say that if a player (in this case Robben) instigates the contact in an attempt to be awarded a penalty he should be issued with a caution (yellow card).

As the Mexican player's foot was already planted and Robben then made deliberate contact he should not have been rewarded with a penalty kick.

Put another way; once a diver always a diver.
		
Click to expand...

So you say all that after watching the slow mo replays - the ref had a split second to make a decision and of course no replay to watch. From what I saw in real time it was a definite penalty, and the defender was foolish to put his foot in there, knowing what the consequences could be.


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## Fyldewhite (Jun 29, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			As the Mexican player's foot was already planted
		
Click to expand...


Absolutely......it was firmly planted on Robben's toes. Tripping an oppenent, direct free kick / penalty for me all day long.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Wasn't a penallty,like most of ref decisions go in this world cup..Soft ones given,....foot at head height,not even a booking..Uruaguay centre half should not have been playing against Italy....Robben,great player,but knows how to go over..Ref bought it,unlucky Mexico


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## Slime (Jun 29, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			Absolutely......it was firmly planted on Robben's toes. Tripping an oppenent, direct free kick / penalty for me all day long.
		
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If he was tripped he would have fallen down .............................. he fell upwards!


*Slime*.


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## c1973 (Jun 29, 2014)

Slime said:



			If he was tripped he would have fallen down .............................. he fell upwards!


*Slime*.
		
Click to expand...

That is a good point.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Greece v Costa Brava, got to be most tedious game so far....


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Greece v Costa Brava, got to be most tedious game so far....
		
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I agree. Always the same though at this stage. Teams become more defensive and scared of losing


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## Imurg (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Greece v Costa Brava, got to be most tedious game so far....
		
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Just turned on and watched 5 minutes and was going to say the same......just been a shot though..


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## Piece (Jun 29, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Just turned on and watched 5 minutes and was going to say the same......just been a shot though..
		
Click to expand...

Yup. A bit dull. So dull that I've typed this post.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Lee Dixon is struggling for a constructive comment on this game.....


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Lee Dixon is struggling for a constructive comment
		
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you!


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## Snelly (Jun 29, 2014)

Anyone who thinks Robben's dive was a penalty is part of the problem that football currently has.  Total dive and he's a cheat.  

If you think it was a penalty then you have been hoodwinked along with the referee.  

Stop being so gullible. See these clowns for what they are. Cheats. Simple as that.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

great shot....


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## Dodger (Jun 29, 2014)

Snelly said:



			Anyone who thinks Robben's dive was a penalty is part of the problem that football currently has.  Total dive and he's a cheat.  

If you think it was a penalty then you have been hoodwinked along with the referee.  

Stop being so gullible. See these clowns for what they are. Cheats. Simple as that.
		
Click to expand...

It is amusing that no one was greetin while Sturridge and Wellbeck were chucking themselves around a couple of weeks ago.

It was a penalty all day long by the way.Even the Ref agrees with me.:smirk:


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It is amusing that no one was greetin while Sturridge and Wellbeck were chucking themselves around a couple of weeks ago.

It was a penalty all day long by the way.Even the Ref agrees with me.:smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Are you Scottish by any chance.Just asking?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 29, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Are you Scottish by any chance.Just asking?
		
Click to expand...

Scottish or not the man as a point. 
I haven't seen the Robben incident,but let's be honest we've all got players at club & international level that go down way too easy & Snelly makes a good point. 
Michael Owen argues that players have a right to go down when they feel contact their really is no hope with comments like that.


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## Piece (Jun 29, 2014)

Piece said:



			Yup. A bit dull. So dull that I've typed this post.
		
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Hoorah! A goal. That shoot took about 5 secs to roll in. The keeper's feet were nailed to the floor.

Blatant handball missed a few mins later...should have been pen. Perhaps the Costa Coffee player should have rolled around like Robben to get the refs attention


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Scottish or not the man as a point. 
I haven't seen the Robben incident,but let's be honest we've all got players at club & international level that go down way too easy & Snelly makes a good point. 
Michael Owen argues that players have a right to go down when they feel contact their really is no hope with comments like that.
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough,but what is the point?..If you are gonna name names(previous poster), put Fred or hulk, or  a plethora of other feigners into the equation eh?..If Michael Owen said this,i agree.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 29, 2014)

Unbelievable..Second yellow for that after all the non bookings that could have been at world cup


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 29, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			Absolutely......it was firmly planted on Robben's toes. Tripping an oppenent, direct free kick / penalty for me all day long.
		
Click to expand...

Think you may need to look again. Firmly planted on the ground in front of Robben who then chose to throw himself over that leg.


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## Snelly (Jun 29, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It is amusing that no one was greetin while Sturridge and Wellbeck were chucking themselves around a couple of weeks ago.

It was a penalty all day long by the way.Even the Ref agrees with me.:smirk:
		
Click to expand...

Sturridge is almost as bad.  No way was it a penalty.  To say it was makes you look faintly ridiculous.  

The diving and gamesmanship is the biggest issue in football.  Only the blindly fanatic or utterly gullible cannot see it. 

I have quite enjoyed this World Cup but the one thing that has genuinely shocked me is that with all these divers on show, embarrassing themselves and further sullying the reputation of football, none of them are getting booked for cheating? Why not?


----------



## fundy (Jun 29, 2014)

and the winners of tonights Greece v Costa Rica tie is......... Holland


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 30, 2014)

Algeria have started really brightly against the Germans who look rather shaky at the back


----------



## c1973 (Jun 30, 2014)

Algeria causing problems for the Germans here, more composure in front of goal and they could/should be 2 up. 

Fully expect Schweinsteiger and company to make them pay for the missed opportunities though.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 30, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Algeria have started really brightly against the Germans who look rather shaky at the back
		
Click to expand...

Hardly surprising with Mertesacker at centre-back.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Hardly surprising with Mertesacker at centre-back.
		
Click to expand...

An oil tanker turns quicker than him


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

So a player admits to diving yet FIFA are doing nothing about it ? 

They have a chance to make a statement and to punish the culprit and do nothing


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## G1BB0 (Jun 30, 2014)

typical FIFA, pants as ever!

Come on Algeria, would love to see a few Germanic tears


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So a player admits to diving yet FIFA are doing nothing about it ? 

They have a chance to make a statement and to punish the culprit and do nothing
		
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Agreed but I am afraid they are too busy congratulating themselves on taking decisive action against Suarez. They are not likely to be that strong again for a few years.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 30, 2014)

im quiet enjoying this game , If German keeper keeps charging out and diving in he asking to be sent off


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 30, 2014)

Cracking double save by the Algerian keeper there.


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## bladeplayer (Jun 30, 2014)

I wish our national team were half as exciting to watch


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Agreed but I am afraid they are too busy congratulating themselves on taking decisive action against Suarez. They are not likely to be that strong again for a few years.
		
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Either that or they have lawyers working around the clock to fill in loopholes !

A player has admitted he has cheated on the pitch and there is silence - the inconsistency of the governing bodies is shocking


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## Imurg (Jun 30, 2014)

Wouldn't it be sweet if Algeria hold it together and beat the Germans on penalties....


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## bladeplayer (Jun 30, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Wouldn't it be sweet if Algeria hold it together and beat the Germans on penalties....
		
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Germans be lucky to get to pens they way they playing


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## NWJocko (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Either that or they have lawyers working around the clock to fill in loopholes !

A player has admitted he has cheated on the pitch and there is silence - the inconsistency of the governing bodies is shocking
		
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I do hope you're not trying to compare diving with Suarez?

I agree btw, when he's admitted diving he should get a match ban. Robben has a face you'd never tire of punching, something about him just winds me up.

Algeria should have been out of sight, you just know Germany are going to win this now......


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## Piece (Jun 30, 2014)

Tidy game this. Germany's back four being exposed but fear that Algeria have missed their chance. Let's hope not.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Either that or they have lawyers working around the clock to fill in loopholes !

A player has admitted he has cheated on the pitch and there is silence - the inconsistency of the governing bodies is shocking
		
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No bitterness there then? He's been known as a diver for years and has admitted diving before. FIFA won't take any action as there are about 30 others that have dived including a Brazilian in the opening game. They won't upset the hosts as they'd have to sanction him too


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## Birchy (Jun 30, 2014)

They need to keep going at Mertesacker he is an absolute mule


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			I do hope you're not trying to compare diving with Suarez?

I agree btw, when he's admitted diving he should get a match ban. Robben has a face you'd never tire of punching, something about him just winds me up.

Algeria should have been out of sight, you just know Germany are going to win this now......
		
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Not comparing anything 

A players has admitted to diving - an offence we all want to see treated far more harshly by the governing bodies and they do nothing

What sort of message does the send to the players


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## NWJocko (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not comparing anything 

A players has admitted to diving - an offence we all want to see treated far more harshly by the governing bodies and they do nothing

What sort of message does the send to the players
		
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Just you said no consistency, was wondering what you were comparing against?

As I said I would give him a one match ban, he had about 4 practice dives before getting it right at the end of that game!! The way he throws himself to the ground is ridiculous.


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## c1973 (Jun 30, 2014)

If a guy comes out and admits he has cheated then he should be dealt with. How the hell are you meant to stamp out cheating in the game if players can admit to it without fear of sanctions? 

Algeria the better team here.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Just you said no consistency, was wondering what you were comparing against?

As I said I would give him a one match ban, he had about 4 practice dives before getting it right at the end of that game!! The way he throws himself to the ground is ridiculous.
		
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Would make it three games

And not comparing the incidents etc more that they rightly send out a strong message in one incident 

But ignore another incident that is a major problem in the game


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would make it three games

And not comparing the incidents etc more that they rightly send out a strong message in one incident 

But ignore another incident that is a major problem in the game
		
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It was suppose to have been stamped on in the last WC and was for a bout a week. In the end the same old story and players falling over as if shot trying to get a penalty. It wont get dealt with as the referee gave the decision at the time and they won't admit he was conned


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## NWJocko (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Would make it three games

And not comparing the incidents etc more that they rightly send out a strong message in one incident 

But ignore another incident that is a major problem in the game
		
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3 probably too much for me, although better than diddly which he's getting away with.

The incidents are worlds apart though to be fair, not sure if anyone else has admitted diving before? I remember an arsenal player (Eduardo?) got banned for diving but then they rescinded that. Great message!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			3 probably too much for me, although better than diddly which he's getting away with.

The incidents are worlds apart though to be fair, not sure if anyone else has admitted diving before? I remember an arsenal player (Eduardo?) got banned for diving but then they rescinded that. Great message!
		
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Yes they rescinded it because they couldnt prove he meant to dive !


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## NWJocko (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes they rescinded it because they couldnt prove he meant to dive !
		
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If Robben (and a load of others to be fair) is on the pitch its pretty clear he intends to dive!! :rofl:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			If Robben (and a load of others to be fair) is on the pitch its pretty clear he intends to dive!! :rofl:
		
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That is certainly the truth - the worst player for it by a mile


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## NWJocko (Jun 30, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That is certainly the truth - the worst player for it by a mile
		
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For me, what makes it even more annoying with Robben is the way he jumps/twists/flies through the air. Just makes him look like a proper bell end.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 30, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			For me, what makes it even more annoying with Robben is the way he jumps/twists/flies through the air. Just makes him look like a proper bell end.
		
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Drogba taught him very well at Chelsea !


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## garyinderry (Jun 30, 2014)

the way he went down was ridiculous.  sometimes you have to wonder what the refs are looking at.   


anyone going down in a theatrical manner would be getting told to get up. 



one of my biggest gripes in professional football is when a full back is hemmed in by his own corner flag, the forward breaths on him and he falls over and buys the foul. 

absolutely ridiculous.  complete get out of jail free card. it should be a lot more difficult to get out of that situation than it currently is.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2014)

Not too much diving tonight. A decent enough game and Algeria actually looking dangerous on the break. Oh how I'd love to see them win


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## c1973 (Jun 30, 2014)

Algerian keeper has made a few good saves in the last 5-10 mins.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2014)

That last one was world class. Yes it was at him but great positioning


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## c1973 (Jun 30, 2014)

Algerian forward bottles out of another 50/50 with Neuer.  Maybe a wee challenge would make the keeper think twice about rushing out.


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## Birchy (Jun 30, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Algerian forward bottles out of another 50/50 with Neuer.  Maybe a wee challenge would make the keeper think twice about rushing out.
		
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He should have seriously smashed him with that last one, he was favourite until he seen him coming then bottled it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2014)

Birchy said:



			He should have seriously smashed him with that last one, he was favourite until he seen him coming then bottled it.
		
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What time is it out there. I guess some of the Algerians will be observing Ramadam that started yesterday and so won't be able (or shouldn't) take fluids until darkness


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## HawkeyeMS (Jun 30, 2014)

What a cracking 90 minutes that was. I have a feeling the Germans will nick it but Algeria have been excellent.


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## Odvan (Jun 30, 2014)

I've enjoyed this game. And forget the fact that its against Germany, I'd like Algeria to go through, they're a bloody spirited team, with plenty of talent. Remembering that its Germany and I'd like Algeria to win in the 31st minute of extra time!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 30, 2014)

Bugger


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## Odvan (Jun 30, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bugger
		
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My sentiments, exactly :angry:


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## Slime (Jun 30, 2014)

I can't believe how poor Ozil is playing!
What has Wenger done to him?


*Slime*.


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## Odvan (Jun 30, 2014)

Algeria don't have to go all out yet, they're playing like there's 2 mins to go!


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## Piece (Jun 30, 2014)

Algeria are/were a real credit to this World Cup. That's putting in a shift to make Germany look ordinary. Just needed that extra bit of quality at the right end if the pitch.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 1, 2014)

Nine consecutive World Cup quarter finals for the Germans, that is one hell of a record.

Algeria played some great football, real blood and snotters stuff.
I have never seen so many chances in a 0-0 90 minutes. Both goalies were superb.


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2014)

Slime said:



			I can't believe how poor Ozil is playing!
What has Wenger done to him?


*Slime*.
		
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Hugely,hugely over priced and over rated....hugely.


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## Birchy (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			What time is it out there. I guess some of the Algerians will be observing Ramadam that started yesterday and so won't be able (or shouldn't) take fluids until darkness
		
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Only just seen this post now but apparently the Algerian team have had a pardon from Ramadam while the world cup is on! Has caused some debate in their home country.

I know Ozil was observing Ramadam although he played like he hadn't eaten for about 6 months


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Not sure who's going to win Germany v France. Neither side filling me with confidence but think the Germans will do just enough. Congrats to Algeria though. Definitely team of the WC to date


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## JCW (Jul 1, 2014)

France will win as Germany look a tired team , but they seem to get better the longer the game goes , must be a German thing , they know how to get the job done , I think it will be a Holland V Argentina final , repeat of 1978 and the dutch are due big time having lost 3 finals , 74 78 & 2010 , Brazil look poor at the back and it will tell at some point . the real joy of this world cup has been how the so called lesser teams have played , the final ball has been their undoing but they have kept going and worried many of the better teams in some great matches ...............................EYF


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## Birchy (Jul 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			France will win as Germany look a tired team , but they seem to get better the longer the game goes , must be a German thing , they know how to get the job done , I think it will be a Holland V Argentina final , repeat of 1978 and the dutch are due big time having lost 3 finals , 74 78 & 2010 , Brazil look poor at the back and it will tell at some point . the real joy of this world cup has been how the so called lesser teams have played , the final ball has been their undoing but they have kept going and worried many of the better teams in some great matches ...............................EYF
		
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Holland cant play Argentina in the final as they are in the same half of the draw.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

JCW said:



			France will win as Germany look a tired team , but they seem to get better the longer the game goes , must be a German thing , they know how to get the job done , I think it will be a Holland V Argentina final , repeat of 1978 and the dutch are due big time having lost 3 finals , 74 78 & 2010 , Brazil look poor at the back and it will tell at some point . the real joy of this world cup has been how the so called lesser teams have played , the final ball has been their undoing but they have kept going and worried many of the better teams in some great matches ...............................EYF
		
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Can't be a Holland Argentina final

Edit: Birchy beat me too it


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure who's going to win Germany v France. Neither side filling me with confidence but think the Germans will do just enough. Congrats to Algeria though. *Definitely team of the WC to date*

Click to expand...

Ahead of Columbia ? 

Both sides did what was needed - last week they were touted as winners.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Ahead of Columbia in my book. Algeria were a much smaller team and definitely not tipped to qualify from their group so a much better performance and they played some good football especially last night.

Not sure Germany will get to the final. Don't look a good side at all


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Ahead of Columbia in my book. Algeria were a much smaller team and definitely not tipped to qualify from their group so a much better performance and they played some good football especially last night.

Not sure Germany will get to the final. Don't look a good side at all
		
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Who does look a good side ? 

You say Algeria are your team of the World Cup but just got knocked out by Germany ? Who continue to score goals regulary but possibly a bit suspect at the back due to lack of fullbacks


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## Birchy (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who does look a good side ? 

You say Algeria are your team of the World Cup but just got knocked out by Germany ? Who continue to score goals regulary but possibly a bit suspect at the back due to lack of fullbacks
		
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For me I reckon Argentina look about the width of a cigarette paper better than the others contenders left.

I believe any of these could win it :-

Argentina
Brazil
Colombia
Germany
France
Holland

Quite open which should make it good to watch :thup:


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## garyinderry (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who does look a good side ?
		
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its wide open.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 1, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Only just seen this post now but apparently the Algerian team have had a pardon from Ramadam while the world cup is on! Has caused some debate in their home country.

I know Ozil was observing Ramadam although he played like he hadn't eaten for about 6 months 

Click to expand...

Ozil actually said he wouldn't be doing Ramadan this year because of the world cup


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## Birchy (Jul 1, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Ozil actually said he wouldn't be doing Ramadam this year because of the world cup
		
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Commentators have stitched me up then  Swines lol.


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## Rooter (Jul 1, 2014)

Birchy said:



			I believe any of these could win it :-

Argentina
Brazil
Colombia
Germany
France
Holland
		
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Why not throw Belgium, USA and costa rica in there? All bases covered then!


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## Birchy (Jul 1, 2014)

Rooter said:



			Why not throw Belgium, USA and costa rica in there? All bases covered then!
		
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They aint good enough. The rest are all pretty close.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			its wide open.
		
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Very much so - all the teams left in have impressed at some stage - all good sides left 

Should be a really exciting bunch of matches ahead


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who does look a good side ? 

You say Algeria are your team of the World Cup but just got knocked out by Germany ? Who continue to score goals regulary but possibly a bit suspect at the back due to lack of fullbacks
		
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Not going ot get involved in another long winded debate. For my money Algeira have played the most entertaining football of any side to date. Just my opinion


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## richy (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not going ot get involved in another long winded debate. For my money Algeira have played the most entertaining football of any side to date. Just my opinion
		
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Have you only watched one game?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

richy said:



			Have you only watched one game?
		
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Actually I've watched the majority thanks.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2014)

Chile were impressive & the match V Brazil was the best so far IMO. 
I'll go with Colombia as the stand out team & look overpriced at 10/3 to beat Brazil over 90mins.
I still don't think we've seen the best of the Argies tho.


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## guest100718 (Jul 1, 2014)

Plenty of great games this WC. Lets hope the knockouts keep it going.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not going ot get involved in another long winded debate. For my money Algeira have played the most entertaining football of any side to date. Just my opinion
		
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Which you are entitled to.


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## Imurg (Jul 1, 2014)

Blimey, don't think anyone wants to win this World Cup!
Lots of huff and puff but very little else in this round on 16....


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 1, 2014)

Birchy said:



			For me I reckon Argentina look about the width of a cigarette paper better than the others contenders left.

I believe any of these could win it :-

Argentina
Brazil
Colombia
Germany
France
Holland

Quite open which should make it good to watch :thup:
		
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Argentina are looking very ordinary in this game, plus they could easily have got beat by Iran.  I think it's Colombia's for the taking.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 1, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Argentina are looking very ordinary in this game, plus they could easily have got beat by Iran.  I think it's Colombia's for the taking.
		
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Ordinary is being polite, they are terrible. If this were England they would be getting slaughtered. Messi will probably dig them out of a hole again though.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 1, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Blimey, don't think anyone wants to win this World Cup!
Lots of huff and puff but very little else in this round on 16....
		
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It's amazing how different nil nil can be, last night's Germany Algeria game was excellent, this is turgid stuff.


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2014)

The Aggie hatred coming from Lawrenson is disgusting.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The Aggie hatred coming from Lawrenson is disgusting.
		
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Are we missing something from him ?


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are we missing something from him ?
		
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Typo.......Argie.

He clearly dislikes them hugely listening to his commentary. Bitterness emitting from him for some reason.

How he continues to get a gig is incredible.

Horrible commentator.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Typo.......Argie.

He clearly dislikes them hugely listening to his commentary. Bitterness emitting from him for some reason.

How he continues to get a gig is incredible.

Horrible commentator.
		
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Thought he was just rightly slagging off players like Di Maria and Higuain who were awful !

Felt gutted for Switzerland - so much hard work from them


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2014)

Finishing. Thats been the hairline difference between the top sides and the near lies. Unlucky Swiss, denied by a post width. Dull Argentina move on though.

Would like to see USA win tonight.


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thought he was just rightly slagging off players like Di Maria and Higuain who were awful !

Felt gutted for Switzerland - so much hard work from them
		
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Topped off with his "yeah right like the Argentinians never dive right" said in a manner that suggested his lip had just hit the floor.

He is a tit who puzzlingly as an Irishman gets awfully upset when England gets beat or their fiercest rivals do well.

He was dripping with dislike.Still he's always got the Germans to turn on next.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

As long as it's not Savage , Andy Gray or Phil Neville im not that bothered - take more interest in the game and ignore the drivel from commentators

And I guess being born in Lancashire gives him the English connection


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 1, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Topped off with his "yeah right like the Argentinians never dive right" said in a manner that suggested his lip had just hit the floor.

He is a tit who puzzlingly as an Irishman gets awfully upset when England gets beat or their fiercest rivals do well.

He was dripping with dislike.Still he's always got the Germans to turn on next.
		
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So are you saying he was wrong and that Argentinian players, unlike all other nationalities, don't dive.

Also his comments about their play tonight was pretty accurate, heavily dependent upon Messi with no real Plan B.


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			So are you saying he was wrong and that Argentinian players, unlike all other nationalities, don't dive.

Also his comments about their play tonight was pretty accurate, heavily dependent upon Messi with no real Plan B.
		
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No not at all,I am simply saying the hatred towards the Argies from him you could almost taste.That and he's is a grade 'A' fud.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 1, 2014)

Lawrenson is on par with Chiles & Savage. Why do we have to listen to these idiots??


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## Dodger (Jul 1, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Lawrenson is on par with Chiles & Savage. Why do we have to listen to these idiots??
		
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My God. Chrissy Waddle tonight.

Look out for a 'Pelanty'.


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## c1973 (Jul 1, 2014)

Not that keen on Lawrensons commentary myself tbh, in fact truth be told I can't bloody stand his commentary! :lol:

The dive for Switzerland's last free kick was shocking, when are FIFA going to retrospectively punish these cheats? 

I hope America go through tonight (even though the boss has a fiver on Belgium getting to the final), but I've a feeling Belgium may edge them out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Not that keen on Lawrensons commentary myself tbh, in fact truth be told I can't bloody stand his commentary! :lol:

The dive for Switzerland's last free kick was shocking, when are FIFA going to retrospectively punish these cheats? 

I hope America go through tonight (even though the boss has a fiver on Belgium getting to the final), but I've a feeling Belgium may edge them out.
		
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FIFA had the chance to punish a diver a they bottled it - won't do anything despite Blatters claims 

I'm liking the look of that Ogri player that we are buying


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Lawrenson spends way too much time trying to be funny or ironic and fails miserably on both scores. If he concentrated on giving an "expert" opinion then he may just be bearable. Gary Neville should be the one to watch and see how it's done. To be fair Danny Murphy is making a decent fist of the USA v Belgium co commentator role


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## Slime (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA had the chance to punish a diver a they bottled it - won't do anything despite Blatters claims   I'm liking the look of that Ogri player that we are buying
		
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           So utterly, utterly predictable.


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## c1973 (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA had the chance to punish a diver a they bottled it - won't do anything despite Blatters claims 

I'm liking the look of that Ogri player that we are buying
		
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Agreed.

Yep,  he looks like he has a bit of potential.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Agreed.

Yep,  he looks like he has a bit of potential.
		
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Still very raw but strong and got a lot of pace - going to stay on loan at Lille for a year


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			FIFA had the chance to punish a diver a they bottled it - won't do anything despite Blatters claims
		
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Accept it ain't going to happen and move on. it was suppose to be the thing they penalised in South Africa and it lasted a handful of group games at most. The referees don't seem to have the confidence in being able to enforce it. FIFA swept the plan to punish simulation under the carpet after the last WC and no one has the bottle to ensure its enforced. Never going to change any time soon. Accept it and let it go


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still very raw but strong and got a lot of pace - going to stay on loan at Lille for a year
		
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Will first need to learn to run with his head up and show more awareness of the play around him.And with that miss (through his legs) he ain't no Robbie Fowler!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 1, 2014)

The best teams/players in the world and nobody seems to be able to score a goal.

Maybeez the goalies are getting better or should we make the goals bigger?


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## JCW (Jul 1, 2014)

Good game tonight , Extra time now , with regards  to that Diving orange , he has open his big mouth about diving , no they FIFA will do notink about it but you can bet the refs have made a note of it and i will be surprise if he gets any joy from now onwards and may even get a card for diving , remember Ratna ( not sure about spelling ) and his remark about rubbish jewellery , came back to bite him ...............EYF


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 1, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The best teams/players in the world and nobody seems to be able to score a goal.

Maybeez the goalies are getting better or should we make the goals bigger?
		
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Careful or you will be seen as the delc of football.


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2014)

Come on USA


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## guest100718 (Jul 1, 2014)

2-1 with 10 mins to go. If you are not watching then you should be!


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 1, 2014)

Face it,  England are a poorer version of the USA at soccer nowadays.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 1, 2014)

I think this world cup is proving that so-called 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]class nations are closing the gap on the big guns. There is hardly anything in the approach play, with the lesser nations tending to have more chances,if anything. Itâ€™s just the finishing of the old guard that is making the difference.

Hope for England yet then.


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## Fish (Jul 1, 2014)

Match of the tournament so far for me, excellent example of real sportsman, I was kicking and heading every ball in extra time, huge credit to USA, hold your heads up high.


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## c1973 (Jul 1, 2014)

Great game of football. 

America have impressed me in the last 2 world cups now, very unlucky but well done Belgium.


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## rickg (Jul 1, 2014)

So refreshing to see a match played in the right spirit...best game of the tournament by far.


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2014)

Fish said:



			Match of the tournament so far for me, excellent example of real sportsman, I was kicking and heading every ball in extra time, huge credit to USA, hold your heads up high.
		
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Plus one. USA right back Johnson was brilliant the last few games, but his replacement, Yedlin, was off the scale. Probably earning a grand a week only...

The worry now in the quarters is that the have-a-go teams are out and the games might get boring.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 2, 2014)

Did anyone else tip Belgium to win the World Cup?

Pity I don't gamble!


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## Dodger (Jul 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Did anyone else tip Belgium to win the World Cup?

Pity I don't gamble!
		
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I tipped them to do nothing.

They have had a bloody easy passage and the next game is an acid test for them,I may be proved wrong but I just don't see them as having it.Lack of bite in midfield but by hell they created chances last night so who knows.They do also have the best centre back in the world playing for them.


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## Dodger (Jul 2, 2014)

Michael Bradley............how come he doesn't play at a higher level? Been impressed by him and he's still fairly young. Him and Gonzalez too.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

He had three years in Italy with Chievo and Roma. Only just returned to MLS


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## JCW (Jul 2, 2014)

Them and france are teams to watch ................, i think it will be a 1st time a european team will win the world cup over there , never write off the Germans either


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## c1973 (Jul 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Did anyone else tip Belgium to win the World Cup?

Pity I don't gamble!
		
Click to expand...

I tipped them as the European outside chance. The boss put a few quid on them to reach the final off the back of my expert judgement.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

I was impressed by the US. Got out of a hard group and played competitively. Some of their players wouldn't look out of place in the PL


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## guest100718 (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I was impressed by the US. Got out of a hard group and played competitively. Some of their players wouldn't look out of place in the PL
		
Click to expand...

That will be beacuse some of them do play in the premier league....


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			That will be beacuse some of them do play in the premier league....
		
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Yedlin? Bradley?


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## guest100718 (Jul 2, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Yedlin? Bradley?
		
Click to expand...

no not those 2, Howard, altidore and couple of others. I think they have a few Bundesliga players too.


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## Dodger (Jul 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			no not those 2, Howard, *altidore *and couple of others. I think they have a few Bundesliga players too.
		
Click to expand...


The worst footballer in that League. He would struggle to get a game for Berwick Rangers.


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## guest100718 (Jul 2, 2014)

Dodger said:



			The worst footballer in that League. He would struggle to get a game for Berwick Rangers.
		
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No one said they were any good....


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## bladeplayer (Jul 2, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Michael Bradley............how come he doesn't play at a higher level? Been impressed by him and he's still fairly young. .
		
Click to expand...

 Very Impressed with this guy .  Il be surprised if someone doesn't go in for him , cool & calm aswell , 

Some set piece that nearly got Dempsey in ..

Id love to see Costa Rica win it


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2014)

bladeplayer said:



			Very Impressed with this guy .  Il be surprised if someone doesn't go in for him , cool & calm aswell , 

Some set piece that nearly got Dempsey in ..

Id love to see Costa Rica win it
		
Click to expand...

Bradley has only just returned to MLS on a Â£10mil deal from Roma - would need a decent bid to get him 

His energy levels were superb - think that is the sort of player Henderson is turning into


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

Rumours going around that Man Utd are looking at Bradley and preparing a buy out clause and "interesting" sized fee.


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## JCW (Jul 3, 2014)

Getting bored now we not got 2 matches each evening , well its back on tomorrow ,

France v Germany ...............france win AET

Brazil v Columbia ................Columbia by odd goal

Argentina V Belgium ............Belgium win by odd goal

Holland v Costa Rica ..............Holland by 3-1

Semi finals 

Columbia V france ..................France 

Holland V Belgium ..................Holland 

Then Holland to be 4th time Lucky ,  thats what i like to see but it could yet be Argentina V Brazil final


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## Fish (Jul 4, 2014)

JCW said:



			Getting bored now we not got 2 matches each evening , well its back on tomorrow ,

France v Germany ...............france win AET

Brazil v Columbia ................Columbia by odd goal

Argentina V Belgium ............Belgium win by odd goal

Holland v Costa Rica ..............Holland by 3-1

Semi finals 

Columbia V france ..................France 

Holland V Belgium ..................Holland 

Then Holland to be 4th time Lucky ,  thats what i like to see but it could yet be Argentina V Brazil final
		
Click to expand...

I think Germany will turn up and beat France.  

I think Brazil have been fortunate to now and will be tested to the full and I fancy Columbia for the upset.  

I don't think either Argentina or Belgium have played yet to their full potential but I think Argentina could nick it with a late goal, if Belgium score 1st, they'll hold to it IMO. 

The main match for me is Holland Vs Costa Rica, I think with the Robben-dive-gate fiasco he will be watched like a hawk and that could could affect his game as he'd have to stay on his feet, there's no denying he's a good player, but, he is their catalyst and Costa Rica are under no real pressure, although they'd love to go further and its that desire and energy which I think will unlock Holland and so the dream will continue for Costa Rica.


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## Crazyface (Jul 4, 2014)

Fish said:



			I think Germany will turn up and beat France.  

I think Brazil have been fortunate to now and will be tested to the full and I fancy Columbia for the upset.  

I don't think either Argentina or Belgium have played yet to their full potential but I think Argentina could nick it with a late goal, if Belgium score 1st, they'll hold to it IMO. 

The main match for me is Holland Vs Costa Rica, I think with the Robben-dive-gate fiasco he will be watched like a hawk and that could could affect his game as he'd have to stay on his feet, there's no denying he's a good player, but, he is their catalyst and Costa Rica are under no real pressure, although they'd love to go further and its that desire and energy which I think will unlock Holland and so the dream will continue for Costa Rica.
		
Click to expand...


Germany / Brazil / Argentina / Holland.    Do not back against this. They all know how to win these type of games and very rarely fail to do so. I think they were all a bit cautious last round as they all need to be in the quarters, it is a minimum expected, so they make sure of it. They can now resume playing properly, diving, play acting the lot, and will get though to the semis.  The only shakey team is Argentina, but I think they will do an Italy from the 80's and move up a gear, maybe wrong on this, but everything else will be right.


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## Birchy (Jul 4, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			Germany / Brazil / Argentina / Holland.    Do not back against this. *They all know how to win these type of games and very rarely fail to do so*. I think they were all a bit cautious last round as they all need to be in the quarters, it is a minimum expected, so they make sure of it. They can now resume playing properly, diving, play acting the lot, and will get though to the semis.  The only shakey team is Argentina, but I think they will do an Italy from the 80's and move up a gear, maybe wrong on this, but everything else will be right.
		
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Have to disagree with that.

In the last 8 world cups Holland have got past the quarter finals once.

The last 2 world cups have seen Brazil knocked out at the quarter final stage.

Germany have been in the top 3 at the last 3 world cups so they are the stalwarts I think. They will take some shifting despite being dodgy at the back imo.

Argentina have not been past the quarters since 1990.

Nothing is guaranteed :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 4, 2014)

Fancy Columbia to spoil the Brazilian party. Think Argentina will be too strong for Belgium. It's the Germany v France one I'm having trouble with. Germans apparently suffering illness in the camp and not looking great but France hardly looking world beaters either. Going 1-1 and Gernamy on pens. Holland will be too good for Costa Rica.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 4, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Fancy Columbia to spoil the Brazilian party. Think Argentina will be too strong for Belgium. It's the Germany v France one I'm having trouble with. Germans apparently suffering illness in the camp and not looking great but France hardly looking world beaters either. Going 1-1 and Gernamy on pens. Holland will be too good for Costa Rica.
		
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If Argentina play like they did against Switzerland, and in pretty much the whole tournament so far, Belgium will beat them.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 4, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Have to disagree with that.

In the last 8 world cups Holland have got past the quarter finals once.

The last 2 world cups have seen Brazil knocked out at the quarter final stage.

Germany have been in the top 3 at the last 3 world cups so they are the stalwarts I think. They will take some shifting despite being dodgy at the back imo.

Argentina have not been past the quarters since 1990.

Nothing is guaranteed :thup:
		
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Aww, you have to go and spoil it with facts don't you


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## Rooter (Jul 4, 2014)

I have had two predict the score bets, with big money Â£1 stake.

15187/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 2 Columbia
Argentina 1 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

9618/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 1 Columbia
Argentina 0 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

So by saturday night, i am either Â£9k or Â£15k better off! Come on you Frenchies!! lets not lose this bet on the first leg like normal!!


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I have had two predict the score bets, with big money Â£1 stake.

15187/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 2 Columbia
Argentina 1 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

9618/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 1 Columbia
Argentina 0 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

So by saturday night, i am either Â£9k or Â£15k better off! Come on you Frenchies!! lets not lose this bet on the first leg like normal!!
		
Click to expand...

Or more likely Â£1 worse off.


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## Rooter (Jul 4, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Or more likely Â£1 worse off.
		
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Â£2!! LOL


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 4, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I have had two predict the score bets, with big money Â£1 stake.

15187/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 2 Columbia
Argentina 1 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

9618/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 1 Columbia
Argentina 0 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

So by saturday night, i am either Â£9k or Â£15k better off! Come on you Frenchies!! lets not lose this bet on the first leg like normal!!
		
Click to expand...

They didn't go so well did it


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 4, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I have had two predict the score bets, with big money Â£1 stake.

15187/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 2 Columbia
Argentina 1 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

9618/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 1 Columbia
Argentina 0 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

So by saturday night, i am either Â£9k or Â£15k better off! Come on you Frenchies!! lets not lose this bet on the first leg like normal!!
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't tip rubbish.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 4, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I have had two predict the score bets, with big money Â£1 stake.

15187/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 2 Columbia
Argentina 1 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

9618/1
France 2 - 0 Germany
Brazil 1 - 1 Columbia
Argentina 0 - 1 Belgium
Netherlands 2 - 1 Costa Rica

So by saturday night, i am either Â£9k or Â£15k better off! Come on you Frenchies!! lets not lose this bet on the first leg like normal!!
		
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DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## c1973 (Jul 4, 2014)

Well, Germany done what Germany usually do, another semi final. 

Hoping Colombia can follow them through, they look capable but it is Brazil so who knows. Hopefully another good game.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Well, Germany done what Germany usually do, another semi final. 

Hoping Colombia can follow them through, they look capable but it is Brazil so who knows. Hopefully another good game.
		
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The Germans are like a very well oiled machine.

A Germany V Brazil semi is going to be tasty.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 4, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			The Germans are like a very well oiled machine.

A Germany V Brazil semi is going to be tasty.
		
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Brazil have a lot to do before that happens


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Brazil have a lot to do before that happens
		
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Agree - this has the potential to be an absolute cracker


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 4, 2014)

I can see this actually being very stop start with a lot of niggly fouls mixed in with some exciting passages. Columbia 2-1 AET


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## Stuart_C (Jul 4, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Brazil have a lot to do before that happens
		
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I agree but i think home support will carry them through.

3-1 Neymar fgs


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 4, 2014)

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2014)

NOOOO! I need Colombia to win. I have Rodriguez in my dream team!


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## pokerjoke (Jul 4, 2014)

Got a feeling this is going to be a great game


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

Andy Townsend Drinking game


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2014)

Colombia showing too much respect. Not enough going on the break, not enough running into the box. They need to take the hand brake off.


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## Fish (Jul 4, 2014)

Plenty time to go, Columbia getting into it, as long as they don't go 2 down its game .on.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 4, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Colombia showing too much respect. Not enough going on the break, not enough running into the box. They need to take the hand brake off.
		
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They look like they have a bit of stage fright, certainly to begin with


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 4, 2014)

Looks like Fernandinho is going to get away with countless fouls without being booked purely because of the colour of his shirt


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## richy (Jul 4, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Looks like Fernandinho is going to get away with countless fouls without being booked purely because of the colour of his shirt
		
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Totally agree with this. Wonder if FIFA have leaned on the referees to let Brazil get away with whatever they like


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## c1973 (Jul 4, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Looks like Fernandinho is going to get away with countless fouls without being booked purely because of the colour of his shirt
		
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Was going to say the same thing. Poor referee (yet again).


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 4, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Looks like Fernandinho is going to get away with countless fouls without being booked purely because of the colour of his shirt
		
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Very harsh!.....................................but true.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

Let's be totally honest he has not booked anyone regardless of shirt colour and players from both should have been.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

There's a Colombian getting away with simulation.


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2014)

Ditto for Brazil.

You get nudged, you look at the ref, run on for 5 paces or so, and then go down like you've been shot. 

Then you get the free kick.

Yeah, right.

It's wrecking what could be a good game.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Ditto for Brazil.

You get nudged, you look at the ref, run on for 5 paces or so, and then go down like you've been shot. 

Then you get the free kick.

Yeah, right.

It's wrecking what could be a good game.
		
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Show me a game at top level that this does not happen. It's pish but sadly it's pish that is here to stay.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

Have Hulk and Fred just paid Brazil to be able to play for them?  There must be better than them available......


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## c1973 (Jul 4, 2014)

It's pretty much a kicking match at times now. Some really bad tackles being let go, wasting what I was hoping would be a good game with plenty skill on show.

Poor referee.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

Oooooooffffffttttt!!

Get in.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

Scruffy free kick :mmm:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 4, 2014)

By 'eck!

That was some strike by Sideshow Bob.

Good old Rooter, two down and two to go. Better get some money on Argentina and Costa Rica.


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## c1973 (Jul 4, 2014)

Great goal.

Can't believe Rodriguez gets booked for that, he's been kicked all over the park for 70 minutes and no one even spoken to. Laughable.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 4, 2014)

Ref is playing a blinder for Brazil.


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2014)

Oddly, I don't think Hulk is that bad. That doesn't say much about the rest of this Brazil team though.

I wouldn't want to see him in an arsenal shirt though.


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## c1973 (Jul 4, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Oddly, I don't think Hulk is that bad. That doesn't say much about the rest of this Brazil team though.

I wouldn't want to see him in an arsenal shirt though.
		
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You wouldn't want to see him when he's angry either.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

The ref is shocking - in fact beyond shocking he is a disgrace - this is a quarter final at the World Cup and he is helping destroy a countries chance of progressing.


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## richy (Jul 4, 2014)

I'd be happy with any team to win this other than Brazil but I fear every team will be playing against 12 men.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

Should that be a red ?


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should that be a red ?
		
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No.


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should that be a red ?
		
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of course it should but clearly against the fifa rules for this WC, this refs performance been an utter embarassment


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

Dodger said:



			No.
		
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Clear on goal ? No one behind him to cover ?


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## richy (Jul 4, 2014)

Game on!!!!!!


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2014)

Can you stop in a run up?

Any way, the ref messed this up. Surely it was a free kick to Brazil, and a red for diving?


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Clear on goal ? No one behind him to cover ?
		
Click to expand...

Was there not a defender right beside him in fact in front of him by the time he knocked it past the keeper?

Game on.


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Was there not a defender right beside him in fact in front of him by the time he knocked it past the keeper?

Game on.
		
Click to expand...

Defender?

No, it was David Luiz.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Was there not a defender right beside him in fact in front of him by the time he knocked it past the keeper?

Game on.
		
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if the player is beside him - there has to be someone behind the player making the foul - denied a clear goalscoring opportunity - that's a red card by the letter of the law


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## c1973 (Jul 4, 2014)

Dodger said:



			No.
		
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Yes, all day long. Regardless of the goal scoring opportunity that's a straight red in my book.

Edit: meant to quote LPs question.


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

When was the last time after a sub was made a team conceded?

Every time it is done the commentators tell us that death is nigh yet a team never concedes.

Best quote of the night was chiles at half time 1-0 "The next goal wins".


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Should that be a red ?
		
Click to expand...

No!

In my view by the time of contact Sideshow Bob was goalside of both the man & ball.


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2014)

should be 6 or 7 mins injury time here, expect we get 3 lol


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## Dodger (Jul 4, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			No!

In my view by the time of contact Sideshow Bob was goalside of both the man & ball.
		
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Mine too but we have had the benefit if a replay.Sadly the Refs who some think should be like robots have not had that benefit.

End of the day it was a yellow and talking about it aint going to change it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

Truely amazed that not one Brazilian has been booked for the countless foils against Rodrigeuz - the treatment of him from Brazil has been disgusting tbh - hacked and kicked all game long


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## Piece (Jul 4, 2014)

The ref's had an appalling game.

But not as bad as Fred. Jeez.


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## fundy (Jul 4, 2014)

Piece said:



			The ref's had an appalling game.

But no as bad as Fred. Jeez.
		
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Andy Townsend still been worse than both


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Truely amazed that not one Brazilian has been booked for the countless foils against Rodrigeuz - the treatment of him from Brazil has been disgusting tbh - hacked and kicked all game long
		
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No surprise there, he's Colombias most dangerous player, so they will foul him all night. The ref needed to get the yellows out early, but didn't.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 4, 2014)

The Germans might as well not bother turning up - the refs are giving Brazil this comp.


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## c1973 (Jul 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Truely amazed that not one Brazilian has been booked for the countless foils against Rodrigeuz - the treatment of him from Brazil has been disgusting tbh - hacked and kicked all game long
		
Click to expand...


Agreed. No need for a slow motion replay to spot them either. Absolutely shocking display of refereeing. Some of the tackles on Neymar were unbelievable as well.


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## Piece (Jul 4, 2014)

Things I thought I'd never say - I hope Germany do Brazil over.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 4, 2014)

Piece said:



			Things I thought I'd never say - I hope Germany do Brazil over.
		
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Yup my feelings also


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Yes, all day long. Regardless of the goal scoring opportunity that's a straight red in my book.

Edit: meant to quote LPs question.
		
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On basis that the tackle was dangerous to player - agree straight red


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 4, 2014)

fundy said:



			Andy Townsend still been worse than both 

Click to expand...

Gosh yes - shocker by Townsend and the dork doing the commentary - unfortunately standard ITV rubbish


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 5, 2014)

Sad to see Neymar out of the WC,quality player & it's clear to see how much winning the WC for his country means to him.


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## Birchy (Jul 5, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sad to see Neymar out of the WC,quality player & it's clear to see how much winning the WC for his country means to him.
		
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That referee letting players get away with murder on both sides has cost him. A couple of yellows in the right places before half time and he wouldn't be injured imo.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 5, 2014)

Piece said:



			Things I thought I'd never say - I hope Germany do Brazil over.
		
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Behave yourself!!!!!!!!


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## Cherry13 (Jul 5, 2014)

Birchy said:



			That referee letting players get away with murder on both sides has cost him. A couple of yellows in the right places before half time and he wouldn't be injured imo.
		
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agree with this, ref had a stinker and let players get away with all sorts then started to react when was too late. 

Gutting for Neymar, think Brazil will struggle without him and Silva.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 5, 2014)

Got to be a first


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 5, 2014)

Agree with what other said, the ref had little control and as a result contributed hugely to Neymar being flattened and taken out.

Looks Like Howard Webb and his assistants should do the final again from what I've seen. I bet he's so glad England are rubbish in tournaments as that means he can get the good games near the end after England have crashed out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 5, 2014)

Ref takes full blame for the game last night 

It appears the Brazilians are complaining about the treatment of Neymar from the Columbians - guess he didn't see the way Paulinho and Ferdandino kicked Rodriguez around the park !


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## Fish (Jul 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ref takes full blame for the game last night 

It appears the Brazilians are complaining about the treatment of Neymar from the Columbians - guess he didn't see the way Paulinho and Ferdandino kicked Rodriguez around the park !
		
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They've got the perfect excuse and something to blame now when they get knocked out in the next round.

They brought it all upon themselves, just a like bully, they didn't like the treatment when they got it back!


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## chrisd (Jul 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ref takes full blame for the game last night 

It appears the Brazilians are complaining about the treatment of Neymar from the Columbians - guess he didn't see the way Paulinho and Ferdandino kicked Rodriguez around the park !
		
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Is it me, or are the referees letting things go that, in the PL would be certain bookings. There are a lot of fouls, obstructions and even hand balls that deliberately break up attacks and go unpunished - not that I like too strict refs and find them often too picky in the Pl?


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 5, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Is it me, or are the referees letting things go that, in the PL would be certain bookings. There are a lot of fouls, obstructions and even hand balls that deliberately break up attacks and go unpunished - not that I like too strict refs and find them often too picky in the Pl?
		
Click to expand...

There has obviously been some kind of directive from FIFA to refs to go easy on the yellow cards so players don't miss games. Kind of nice to see a game not getting stopped every 10 seconds, but danger is that players will take advantage of weak refs as happened last night.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 5, 2014)

No sympathy for Silva missing the next game. Silly yellow to pick up.


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## c1973 (Jul 5, 2014)

The ref was a joke and for me wasted the game last night. Nothing wrong with trying to let the game flow but you need to keep it under control as well. Hopefully see better tonight.

You have to laugh at Brazil complaining about the tackle on Neymar (which was a sore one) after the treatment dealt out to Rodriguez.


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## Piece (Jul 5, 2014)

Belgians not offering too much in this first half. Messi running the show whilst Fellani couldn't run a bath.


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## Dodger (Jul 5, 2014)

Piece said:



			Belgians not offering too much in this first half. Messi running the show whilst Fellani couldn't run a bath. 

Click to expand...

The Belgium I have referred to.

Walk in the park for Argentina today.

A team that are hugely over hyped.


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## Piece (Jul 5, 2014)

Quite hopeful that Costa Rica will turn over the Dutch...


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 5, 2014)

I thought Brazil looked much better last night and a shame about Neymar. Belgium were disappointing. The referee let way too much go last night and Brazil could have lost a few men to red cards and perhaps should have.


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## Fish (Jul 5, 2014)

Piece said:



			Quite hopeful that Costa Rica will turn over the Dutch...
		
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My head and my heart are having this argument....


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## c1973 (Jul 5, 2014)

Usually I'd be supporting Holland, but I'd like to see Costa Rica going through as well. I reckon the Dutch might give Argentina a sterner test and as I have a few bob on them and the Germans and Robben is a cheating git I'll have to cheer on Costa.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 5, 2014)

Why is the referee allowing both keepers, but particularly Tim Krul, to get away with the gamesmanship?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Why is the referee allowing both keepers, but particularly Tim Krul, to get away with the gamesmanship?
		
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Thought Krul's behaviour was shocking but I blame the ref. After the first attempt to put the player off he should have been booked for ungentlemanly conduct. I feel sorry for the Dutch keeper substituted. What message does that give him?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Thought Krul's behaviour was shocking but I blame the ref. After the first attempt to put the player off he should have been booked for ungentlemanly conduct. I feel sorry for the Dutch keeper substituted. What message does that give him?
		
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If one keeper is better at saving pens than the other the subbing him would appear to be a good idea - the other lad didn't seem to mind because his team is now in the semi final and he appeared full supportive of it.


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## jp5 (Jul 6, 2014)

Krul is a pillock. Fantastic seeing him at Arsenal a few years ago waste time for 80 minutes, before Arsenal grabbing a late winner. Strangely appeared to be in more of a rush after that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If one keeper is better at saving pens than the other the subbing him would appear to be a good idea - the other lad didn't seem to mind because his team is now in the semi final and he appeared full supportive of it.
		
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Krul has only ever saved two penalties in the PL so hardly a keeper like Beasant, Vorm etc famed for stopping them.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Krul has only ever saved two penalties in the PL so hardly a keeper like Beasant, Vorm etc famed for stopping them.
		
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Rumours are he told him he'd be penalty keeper early doors. So wouldn't be surprised if he'd been watching loads if vids of previous eons with ine job in mind. Either way he went right 5/5 so worked out well.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Krul has only ever saved two penalties in the PL so hardly a keeper like Beasant, Vorm etc famed for stopping them.
		
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He saved two and guessed the right way on every penalty and the team won ( which is the main thing ) - I bet the other keeper right now doesn't give two hoots about being subbed


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			He saved two and guessed the right way on every penalty and the team won ( which is the main thing ) - I bet the other keeper right now doesn't give two hoots about being subbed
		
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I bet he does. No keeper wants to be pulled off unless injured. To me it sends out a message (as both 5live and ITV commentators also mentioned) that we don't trust you. Hardly great for confidence.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I bet he does. No keeper wants to be pulled off unless injured. To me it sends out a message (as both 5live and ITV commentators also mentioned) that we don't trust you. Hardly great for confidence.
		
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Yet there was the keeper on the sidelines roaring on his fellow keeper - it appears he recognised it's a team game and the decision was made for the team. The keeper knew it could happen and didn't appear to effect him during the game. 

He will be right back into the team on Wed - there is no doubt he is number 1 hence why he starts every match


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yet there was the keeper on the sidelines roaring on his fellow keeper - it appears he recognised it's a team game and the decision was made for the team. The keeper knew it could happen and didn't appear to effect him during the game. 

He will be right back into the team on Wed - there is no doubt he is number 1 hence why he starts every match
		
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Clearly you'll argue this point ad infinitum so I'm out. You obviously disagree with all the radio and TV pundits and of course he'll cheer the keeper on but inside you can be sure he's far from happy. I'm done


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Clearly you'll argue this point ad infinitum so I'm out. You obviously disagree with all the radio and TV pundits and of course he'll cheer the keeper on but inside you can be sure he's far from happy. I'm done
		
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Irrelevant what the radio and TV pundits say and you can't be sure of anything unless the person himself has told you so 

The keeper knew before the match that if it went to penalties that he would be subbed yet it didn't effect him one single bit and he knows that he will be straight back into the team - he knows he is number one and has been told he is number - :thup:


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Irrelevant what the radio and TV pundits say and you can't be sure of anything unless the person himself has told you so 

The keeper knew before the match that if it went to penalties that he would be subbed yet it didn't effect him one single bit and he knows that he will be straight back into the team - he knows he is number one and has been told he is number - :thup:
		
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he he didn't know tbf. Krul knew he was coming on,  but van gaal hadn't informed Cillessen. As he didn't want it playing on his mind.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The keeper knew before the match that if it went to penalties that he would be subbed yet it didn't effect him one single bit and he knows that he will be straight back into the team - he knows he is number one and has been told he is number - :thup:
		
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The keeper wasn't told before hand so that's erroneous. Been in the papers this morning saying as much. I'm not biting anymore.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			he he didn't know tbf. Krul knew he was coming on,  but van gaal hadn't informed Cillessen. As he didn't want it playing on his mind.
		
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That's different from what they said this morning on 5Live in the interview - either way he didn't look too bothered one single bit when it's for the good of the team - the questions would have been slightly different if it hadn't worked out very well. I can fully understand the managers reasons behind the swap - very risky move no doubt but effecting a players confidence ? Right now I recon the player is on club 9 helping his team into the semi final and one game away from the final knowing he is number one. 

It is a team game after all


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The keeper wasn't told before hand so that's erroneous. Been in the papers this morning saying as much. I'm not biting anymore.
		
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Whilst i tend to agree that most players aren't usually happy with being subbed. I would imagine getting through will have been more important too him. Also, for all the speculation, whats to say that the keeper himself doesnt fancy pen shoot outs, like when a striker will let a cb be in the top 5?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The keeper wasn't told before hand so that's erroneous. Been in the papers this morning saying as much. I'm not biting anymore.
		
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Homer it's nothing to do with biting it's called having a chat and a debate and I have no idea why you keep overreacting anytime someone disagrees with something you say or offers a different opinion. If you don't want to be involved then don't reply.


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## Slime (Jul 6, 2014)

I have to admit that I think it was a brilliant substitution when it could have gone so badly wrong ....................... but it didn't!
I can't imagine Cillessen feeling anything other than pure jubilation.
Krul has given Cillessen a World Cup semi-final to play in, and seeing his reaction after the game, I'm sure he's more than happy about being subbed.
I'm also sure that if the semi-final goes to penalties he'd be perfectly okay with being subbed again in favour of Holland's 'special team' goalie.
I know I would be!


*Slime*.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's different from what they said this morning on 5Live in the interview - either way he didn't look too bothered one single bit when it's for the good of the team - the questions would have been slightly different if it hadn't worked out very well. I can fully understand the managers reasons behind the swap - very risky move no doubt but effecting a players confidence ? Right now I recon the player is on club 9 helping his team into the semi final and one game away from the final knowing he is number one. 

It is a team game after all
		
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I can't seem to find the 5 live reports. But bbc have it clearly saying that only Krul knew, he does say "we" decided i presume referring to management team, so easy to see how different reposrts are made. Personally i don't think Cilliessen knew, as i'm sure it would have effected him.

I agree and see nothing wrong with subbing the keepers. Re kruls actions, i say fair play to him. Plenty of keepers and opposing players have done similar things in the past.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I can't seem to find the 5 live reports. But bbc have it clearly saying that only Krul knew, he does say "we" decided i presume referring to management team, so easy to see how different reposrts are made. Personally i don't think Cilliessen knew, as i'm sure it would have effected him.

I agree and see nothing wrong with subbing the keepers. Re kruls actions, i say fair play to him. Plenty of keepers and opposing players have done similar things in the past.
		
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Think Krul should have been booked - sorry but that's the sort of thing you see in the boxing ring etc


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think Krul should have been booked - sorry but that's the sort of thing you see in the boxing ring etc
		
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Lots of players and keepers do it during penalties in normal time though. Try and put people off, just likely stopping during a run up was at one point apparently banned as it gained an advantage, or keepers staying on their lines. If england won a shoot out with it i'd be chuffed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Lots of players and keepers do it during penalties in normal time though. Try and put people off, just likely stopping during a run up was at one point apparently banned as it gained an advantage, or keepers staying on their lines. If england won a shoot out with it i'd be chuffed.
		
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And they should also be carded for it - Krul went too far last night to the point of showing disrespect towards the other players - nearly going into the players faces and all his gesturing. Just a step too far.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

If it's such a great thing why aren't other teams subbing the keeper for shoot outs? It seems a very strange and risky strategy and what's to say the #1 wouldn't have made the saves anyway. If I was in goal, I'd want to be involved in the shoot out. As a keeper you can only emerge as a hero anyway.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And they should also be carded for it - Krul went too far last night to the point of showing disrespect towards the other players - nearly going into the players faces and all his gesturing. Just a step too far.
		
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In your opinion of course.

I can see why its annoyed people. But for me its gamesmanhip. No worse than time wasting which is penalised far less than it should be. IMO


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If it's such a great thing why aren't other teams subbing the keeper for shoot outs? It seems a very strange and risky strategy and what's to say the #1 wouldn't have made the saves anyway. If I was in goal, I'd want to be involved in the shoot out. As a keeper you can only emerge as a hero anyway.
		
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Maybe because other teams have their best keeper for penalties on the pitch already. 

If I was in goal I would look to see what is best for the team as opposed to personal glory


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If it's such a great thing why aren't other teams subbing the keeper for shoot outs? It seems a very strange and risky strategy and what's to say the #1 wouldn't have made the saves anyway. If I was in goal, I'd want to be involved in the shoot out. As a keeper you can only emerge as a hero anyway.
		
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How long ago was it that all teams thought you had to play with 2 strikers? Now some don't use any? Whilst i don't expect this to be the norm, i don't see anything wrong with it. Say RVP was a bad pen taker, would you object to bringing on a different player to take one?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

It's only chat if you accept other peoples opinion. Having played in goal to a decent standard most keepers would have belief in their own ability. If it was best for the team, why not have a specialised keeper trained for penalties and bring them on. It doesn't happen as penalties are a lottery and while keepers can do their homework on where a player will place them, there's no guarantee they will. If I was the so called #1 I'd want the manager to trust me to do my job


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It's only chat if you accept other peoples opinion. Having played in goal to a decent standard most keepers would have belief in their own ability. If it was best for the team, why not have a specialised keeper trained for penalties and bring them on. It doesn't happen as penalties are a lottery and while keepers can do their homework on where a player will place them, there's no guarantee they will. If I was the so called #1 I'd want the manager to trust me to do my job
		
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He did his job, he job was clean sheet during the game. You ask to have your opinion respected Homer, but seem to refuse that some keepers could be better and certain aspects. Van Gaal himself said that krul was simply bigger and could cover more of the goal. 

If your a teams man scorer should you also be their pen taker even if you're useless at them? Just because you score the most goals from open play?

I'll leave the subject now matey as don't wanna argue but whilst i can agree he may not have been chuffed with being subbed. He now has a semi to play in which is the more impiortant thing for himi would expect.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It's only chat if you accept other peoples opinion. Having played in goal to a decent standard most keepers would have belief in their own ability. If it was best for the team, why not have a specialised keeper trained for penalties and bring them on. It doesn't happen as penalties are a lottery and while keepers can do their homework on where a player will place them, there's no guarantee they will. If I was the so called #1 I'd want the manager to trust me to do my job
		
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When did I say I don't accept your opinion ? I'm just countering it that's all 

Doesn't matter what standard you played too - that doesn't mean it always has to be one way. 

I'm sure every single player would do what is best for the team - if bringing on a keeper who was better than you at saving penalties and helped your team win ( which is exactly what happened ) then I'm sure everyone will be extremely happy - right now the player is the number one keeper and right now his team is in the semi final because he managed made a call - a call I'm going to guess that the player is extremely happy about because I'm guessing he just cares about the team and not his own personal glory. 

Van Gaal made a change and it worked - as risky as it was his team won the shoot out and everyone is happy. I can't see any complaints from the keepers - they are there to do what's best for the team surely ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			He did his job, he job was clean sheet during the game. You ask to have your opinion respected Homer, but seem to refuse that some keepers could be better and certain aspects. Van Gaal himself said that krul was simply bigger and could cover more of the goal. 

If your a teams man scorer should you also be their pen taker even if you're useless at them? Just because you score the most goals from open play?

I'll leave the subject now matey as don't wanna argue but whilst i can agree he may not have been chuffed with being subbed. He now has a semi to play in which is the more impiortant thing for himi would expect.
		
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My point is simply if he's good enough to be #1 then why sub him for penalties. What had happened if Costa Rica had got a penalty in the 120 minutes before the shoot out. Would they have subbed him and left Krul on? I'd say no so why for the play off. Makes no sense to me. Not the fault of either keeper but seems a weird management decision


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			My point is simply if he's good enough to be #1 then why sub him for penalties. What had happened if Costa Rica had got a penalty in the 120 minutes before the shoot out. Would they have subbed him and left Krul on? I'd say no so why for the play off. Makes no sense to me. Not the fault of either keeper but seems a weird management decision
		
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If you are number one does that mean you automatically better than every other keeper at every aspect of keeping or just the majority 

Cillessen is better than Krul at shot stopping , crosses , distribution , area domination , kicking but Krul is better at stopping penalties - would that not mean that Cillessen would be number one but Krul is better at saving penalties ? So if a shoot out happens then you would want the player who is best at saving penalties as opposed to the other aspects of keeping ? 

Seems a simple choice but risky and maybe one that other people will make


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			My point is simply if he's good enough to be #1 then why sub him for penalties. What had happened if Costa Rica had got a penalty in the 120 minutes before the shoot out. Would they have subbed him and left Krul on? I'd say no so why for the play off. Makes no sense to me. Not the fault of either keeper but seems a weird management decision
		
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I doubt very much they would sub him, much like if a team had a penalty specialist in the bench they would take a star stiker off either. But, when its a penalty should out and you have players specifially picked for a penalty shoot out i dont see the problem. 

Surely the plan is, pick you best players for the match, and then your best for the penalties?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Krul has only ever saved 2 penalties in the PL so I've no idea how he can be considered an outstanding penalty stopper


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Krul has only ever saved 2 penalties in the PL so I've no idea how he can be considered an outstanding penalty stopper
		
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Van Gal didn't say he was, simply that he was bigger and therefor cover more of the goal. Surely if all penalty shoot outs are luck with no goalkeeper skill involved then the bigger the keeper the better?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Krul has only ever saved 2 penalties in the PL so I've no idea how he can be considered an outstanding penalty stopper
		
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Did he not save two in the shootout and guess the right way on every penalty ? 

The manager thought he would make the goal look smaller with his bigger frame also and it appears to have worked. 

It appears the manager made the right choice for the good of the team.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Lots of players and keepers do it during penalties in normal time though. Try and put people off, just likely stopping during a run up was at one point apparently banned as it gained an advantage, or keepers staying on their lines. *If england won a shoot out with it i'd be chuffed.*

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If England won a shoot out behaving like that I'd be embarrassed.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			If England won a shoot out behaving like that I'd be embarrassed.
		
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 Fair enough, I'd take us winning a penalty anyway we could. There are imo players that do far worse things than try and put a player off.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Fair enough, I'd take us winning a penalty anyway we could. *There are imo players that do far worse things than try and put a player off.*

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Not disputing that, but that doesn't make Krul's behaviour last night acceptable.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Not disputing that, but that doesn't make Krul's behaviour last night acceptable.
		
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To you, in a time when its win at all costs i can think of a lot of things that i don't like. That i wasn;t so fussed about. Each to their own of course. Not saying i'm right. Just that imo i dont see anything wrong with it. Can understand why others do.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			To you, in a time when its win at all costs i can think of a lot of things that i don't like. That i wasn;t so fussed about. Each to their own of course. Not saying i'm right. Just that imo i dont see anything wrong with it. Can understand why others do.
		
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It's ungentlemanly conduct and therefore against the rules is what's wrong with it and why it's unacceptable, not a question of just being unacceptable to me, and not quite sure why you don't see anything wrong tbh.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			It's ungentlemanly conduct and therefore against the rules is what's wrong with it and why it's unacceptable, not a question of just being unacceptable to me, and not quite sure why you don't see anything wrong tbh.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
		
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Defiantly ungentlemanly conduct and I believe he should have booked him - that would have stopped the antics


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## Cherry13 (Jul 6, 2014)

People definitely underplaying the fresh legs/mind factor.   Playing in goal for 120 min can be extremely tiring and mentally draining, Krul was then able to come on fresh, he had a bit more spring in his step and could wait that split second longer hence he punished what were two awful spot kicks.  As good as navas was during the game he was exhausted and made his move before every kick was taken, so effectively guessing. 

Krul waited, as was seen in going the right way every single time, but the good ones beat him. 

Also dlnt under estimate as a striker being made to face a fresh keeper.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



*It's ungentlemanly conduct* and therefore against the rules is what's wrong with it and why it's unacceptable, not a question of just being unacceptable to me, and not quite sure why you don't see anything wrong tbh.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
		
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As is diving, time wasting, swearing to name a few. Do they all get booked? I'm sure you've seen your own players to some of those things and not always complained?


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did he not save two in the shootout and guess the right way on every penalty ? 

The manager thought he would make the goal look smaller with his bigger frame also and it appears to have worked. 

It appears the manager made the right choice for the good of the team.
		
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Guess is the word.

Lotteries penalty kicks. Van Gal has been made to look like a super hero but if Krul had guessed the wrong way he would have looked a right prick. He got lucky nothing more nothing less.Christ he could have put Veltman in goal for the kicks and he could have guessed right and become the hero.


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## c1973 (Jul 6, 2014)

He's only a goalie so what does it matter, he's only in goal cos he's not good enough to play outfield. 



A brave decision by Van Gaal and one that would have haunted his managerial career had it not worked. 

I've got to say, I'd have been livid if it had been me going off and I hadn't been kept in the loop, would have been fine if I'd known before had. Mind you, I was good enough to play outfield so it's immaterial.:ears:


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Guess is the word.

Lotteries penalty kicks. Van Gal has been made to look like a super hero but if Krul had guessed the wrong way he would have looked a right prick. He got lucky nothing more nothing less.Christ he could have put Veltman in goal for the kicks and he could have guessed right and become the hero.
		
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There has to be some skill in penalties? Or are we (english) just really lucky? Yes luck was involved, but his logic was that kruls reach was bigger, therefor if he got lucky and went the right way, the target that the opposing had was smaller? Surely thats still a tactic?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Guess is the word.

Lotteries penalty kicks. Van Gal has been made to look like a super hero but if Krul had guessed the wrong way he would have looked a right prick. He got lucky nothing more nothing less.Christ he could have put Veltman in goal for the kicks and he could have guessed right and become the hero.
		
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Exactly. If Holland had missed and Costa Rica scored all there kicks it'll have made no difference and Van Gaal would have looked an idiot. I wonder if United fans will have to get use to other bizarre decisions in a few weeks time. Penalties are a lottery and subbing the keeper made zero difference *in my opinion*


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## Slime (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Exactly. If Holland had missed and Costa Rica scored all there kicks it'll have made no difference and Van Gaal would have looked an idiot. I wonder if United fans will have to get use to other bizarre decisions in a few weeks time. Penalties are a lottery and *subbing the keeper made zero difference* in my opinion
		
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That we will never know ........................... ever.
However, because of the outcome, I think it was the correct decision and certainly not bizarre.
Unusual yes, bizarre no .................. also *in my opinion*!


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Exactly.* If* Holland had missed and *Costa Rica scored all there kicks* it'll have made no difference and Van Gaal would have looked an idiot. I wonder if United fans will have to get use to other bizarre decisions in a few weeks time. Penalties are a lottery and subbing the keeper made zero difference *in my opinion*

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But Holland didnt miss and Costa Rica didnt score all their pens and Van Gaal doesnt look like an idiot - can only look at exactly what happened - the GK that was subbed on saved two penalties - people can speculate on any other outcomes but the facts are pretty plain to see.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

We'll never know if the #1 would have made the saves either. Still a random decision. If not why haven't other manager's done the same thing if it was such a good decision


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## Slime (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We'll never know if the #1 would have made the saves either. Still a random decision. If not *why haven't other manager's done the same thing* if it was such a good decision
		
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There always has to be a first time and this was it.
Van Gaal had confidence enough and the courage of his convictions, he can't be criticised for that, surely.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We'll never know if the #1 would have made the saves either. Still a random decision. If not why haven't other manager's done the same thing if it was such a good decision
		
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Did Holland win the penalty shootout after the manager swapped goalies - yes

Did the goalie save two of those penalties - yes 

How can it be anything other than a good decision ?

Maybe other managers didnt have a keeper on the bench they thought could save penalties or give them a better edge , maybe the manager on the bench had no subs left to make ( normal situation )


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But Holland didnt miss and Costa Rica didnt score all their pens and Van Gaal doesnt look like an idiot - can only look at exactly what happened - the GK that was subbed on saved two penalties - people can speculate on any other outcomes but the facts are pretty plain to see.
		
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What happens when Krul saves none in the semi final shoot out and they go out?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			What happens when Krul saves none in the semi final shoot out and they go out?

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Has that happened yet ?


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## richy (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			What happens when Krul saves none in the semi final shoot out and they go out?

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What happens if the match doesn't go to penalties because Holland concede a penalty during normal play and the #1 keeper doesn't save it?


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Has that happened yet ?
		
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What happens if it does? Krul comes on gets nowhere near the pens and they go out.

Masterstroke tactical genius then or a gamble for a bit of luck that didny pay off?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did Holland win the penalty shootout after the manager swapped goalies - yes

Did the goalie save two of those penalties - yes 

How can it be anything other than a good decision ?

Maybe other managers didnt have a keeper on the bench they thought could save penalties or give them a better edge , maybe the manager on the bench had no subs left to make ( normal situation )
		
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You'll argue your point ad infinitum. I still think it was a bizarre decision which fortunately for Van Gaal paid off. How he could have been 100% certain the outfield players would have scored is beyond me. If they had missed (and some world class players have done so in WC shoot outs) then whoever he put in goal would have become academic. What if he'd had to use three subs during the match.

It worked but I still don't think it was a great decision. I'm done


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

richy said:



			What happens if the match doesn't go to penalties because Holland concede a penalty during normal play and the #1 keeper doesn't save it? 

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What happens if number 1 gets sent off, Krul comes on and gets red carded,3rd comes on and is crap at pens too?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			What happens if it does? Krul comes on gets nowhere near the pens and they go out.

Masterstroke tactical genius then or a gamble for a bit of luck that didny pay off?
		
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What if the world blew up tomorrow etc etc etc - its all what ifs - how about what actually happened

Van Gaal made a choice - his choice saved two penalties to enable them to win and go through - his choice worked and his team won the game. Can call it lucky etc etc but at the end of the day he made a choice and it worked.


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What if the world blew up tomorrow etc etc etc - its all what ifs - how about what actually happened

Van Gaal made a choice - his choice saved two penalties to enable them to win and go through - his choice worked and his team won the game. Can call it lucky etc etc but at the end of the day he made a choice and it worked.
		
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It was the players poor choices that cost Costa Rica.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You'll argue your point ad infinitum. I still think it was a bizarre decision which fortunately for Van Gaal paid off. *How he could have been 100% certain the outfield players would have scored is beyond me*. If they had missed (and some world class players have done so in WC shoot outs) then whoever he put in goal would have become academic. What if he'd had to use three subs during the match.

It worked but I still don't think it was a great decision. I'm done
		
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I dont think anyone has suggested he couldnt have been 100% certain of anything - no one can in sport -  managers make choices they believe could make a difference - some dont work and some do - this one did - then next one may not.

Again why discuss "what ifs" when they didnt actually happen.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You'll argue your point ad infinitum. I still think it was a bizarre decision which fortunately for Van Gaal paid off. How he could have been 100% certain the outfield players would have scored is beyond me. If they had missed (and some world class players have done so in WC shoot outs) then whoever he put in goal would have become academic. *What if he'd had to use three subs during the match*.

It worked but I still don't think it was a great decision. I'm done
		
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Or maybe he didn't use three subs so he could swap the goalie? 

Look i agree it was bizarre, but you keep saying people are stubborn for sticking to their opinions, but you concede nothing. Everyones pretty much agreed that luck is involved (not solely responsible), but surely it is at the least a brave decision? He had the balls to do it knowing he'd gett battered if it went wrong.

If the get to pens again he may not do it, as the trick has been seen now, but surely his logic, bigger goalie was sound? Or when you were a goalie did you just close your eyes and dive whenever a team had a penalty as the end result was beyong your control?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			It was the players poor choices that cost Costa Rica.
		
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The gk went the right way and saved the pen - the GK made the right choice.


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## Slime (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What if the world blew up tomorrow etc etc etc - its all what ifs - how about what actually happened

Van Gaal made a choice - his choice saved two penalties to enable them to win and go through - his choice worked and his team won the game. Can call it lucky etc etc but at the end of the day he made a choice and it worked.
		
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Read the above, forget who posted it, just read it.
If you can fault the logic, you're a better man than I am ......................... *because he's correct, 100% correct!*


*Slime*.


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The gk went the right way and saved the pen - the GK made the right choice.
		
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But did the takers not make the wrong choices?

Come on you'll know the answer,you're never wrong......


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			But did the takers not make the wrong choices?

Come on you'll know the answer,you're never wrong......
		
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Did Holland win because their keeper made two saves - yes they did - you can look for who is at fault etc etc but it wont change any facts that a keeper came onto the pitch and made two crucial saves.


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Did Holland win because their keeper made two saves - yes they did - you can look for who is at fault etc etc but it wont change any facts that a keeper came onto the pitch and made two crucial saves.
		
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No they won because Costa Rica missed 2 pens.

This is too easy.:smirk:


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			No they won because Costa Rica missed 2 pens.

This is too easy.:smirk:
		
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I know you're only bear baiting, but, if Kruil wasn't in goal or anyone else for that matter. Would they have missed? Nope, these were't waddle penalties. They weren't missed, they were saved.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again why discuss "what ifs" when they didnt actually happen.
		
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Actually your right. Why discuss because no matter what I think you're at the opposite end of the scale..not just on this. It worked but I still think it was a strange decision and one that coud just as easily backfired. I just find it funny that a keeper with just two PL saves to his name is brought on just because he's big. Hardly got any other attributes to bring to the table in terms of stopping penalties



Dodger said:



			you're never wrong......
		
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The most accurate three words on here for a while


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I know you're only bear baiting, but, if Kruil wasn't in goal or anyone else for that matter. Would they have missed? Nope, these were't waddle penalties. *They weren't missed, they were saved*.
		
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Dont confuse him with facts.


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## Dodger (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I know you're only bear baiting, but, if Kruil wasn't in goal or anyone else for that matter. Would they have missed? Nope, these were't waddle penalties. They weren't missed, they were saved.
		
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So if those penalty takers had chosen the other side?

They were missed due to bad choices.

That my people is fact.


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## Slime (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So* if those penalty takers had chosen the other side?*

They were missed due to bad choices.

That my people is fact.
		
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They may have missed ..................... more if's, but's and maybe's.  
Hypothetical argument, let's stick to the facts.


*Slime*.


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## c1973 (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So if those penalty takers had chosen the other side?

They were missed due to bad choices.

That my people is fact.
		
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If yer granny had bawz she'd be yer grampa.

The keeper saved the penalties, they weren't missed.


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## richy (Jul 6, 2014)

Dodger said:



			So if those penalty takers had chosen the other side?

They were missed due to bad choices.

That my people is fact.
		
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They were saved, they weren't missed. 

That is FACT


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## Astraeus (Jul 6, 2014)

Here's a thought.  Missing penalties and penalties being saved aren't mutually exclusive...


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## richy (Jul 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Actually your right. Why discuss because no matter what I think you're at the opposite end of the scale..not just on this. It worked but I still think it was a strange decision and one that coud just as easily backfired. I just find it funny that a keeper with just two PL saves to his name is brought on just because he's big. Hardly got any other attributes to bring to the table in terms of stopping penalties



The most accurate three words on here for a while
		
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I though you said you were out...........AGAIN


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## Rumpokid (Jul 6, 2014)

Lots of points about ifs, buts, and maybes regarding Holland  v Costa Rica result..Van Gaal made a measured decision and it worked...For all we know,he has had his players blasting pens at Krull during training in readiness,for this..There was method in his madness.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			As is diving, time wasting, swearing to name a few. Do they all get booked? I'm sure you've seen your own players to some of those things and not always complained?
		
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No they don't and yes they should.  As for Chelsea players doing it, now there you are wrong; I hate my own players doing it more than I hate the opposition doing it, and I'd love you to show my any posts where I've condoned anybody doing it.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2014)

Slime said:



			There always has to be a first time and this was it.
Van Gaal had confidence enough and the courage of his convictions, he can't be criticised for that, surely.


*Slime*.
		
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Because it worked, no he can't  I wonder how we would have all be viewing it if Krul hadn't saved any or worse, let one through his legs to let Costa Rica through?


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## Astraeus (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Because it worked, no he can't  I wonder how we would have all be viewing it if Krul hadn't saved any or worse, let one through his legs to let Costa Rica through?
		
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It was a calculated gamble but, as has been said before, Van Gaal did it with the firm belief that he picked the better man for the job.  Yes questions would have been asked if Krul hadn't put his hand to any penalties and Van Gaal, as a manger, has to live and die by those sort of decisions.  It is really no different to making any substitute and being open to criticism or praise if the substitute has an impact one way or the other.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 6, 2014)

It was a great "Tactical" decision by Van Gaal to change keepers. As has already been said, he didn't tell the no.1 keeper so as it would not play on his mind - great man management.
Also, Holland scored all their penalties......including Dirk Kuyt's (sp), an unstoppable penalty, another good tactical choice from Van Gaal for picking him. I thought he was finished after leaving Liverpool, he played well and was pivotal in a lot of their attacking play.

It will be interesting to see his choices next season with Man Utd.


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## Slime (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Because it worked, no he can't  *I wonder how we would have all be viewing it if Krul hadn't saved any* or worse, let one through his legs to let Costa Rica through?
		
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But that's the whole point ................. *HE DID SAVE TWO PENALTIES* thus 100% justifying Van Gaal's bizarre/lucky/unfair/brilliant/inspired decision.


*Slime*.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 6, 2014)

Slime said:



			But that's the whole point ................. *HE DID SAVE TWO PENALTIES* thus 100% justifying Van Gaal's bizarre/lucky/unfair/brilliant/inspired decision.


*Slime*.
		
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Yes, but had he not how would people have viewed it; a good tactical decision that didn't pay off or a poor decision because of the friction that it might cause between the keepers?


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## Slime (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes, but had he not how would people have viewed it; a good tactical decision that didn't pay off or a poor decision because of the friction that it might cause between the keepers?
		
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I'm sure they would have seen it as a very poor tactical decision, but, as he saved two penalties, it's seen as a tactical masterpiece.


*Slime*.


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 6, 2014)

Fact â€“ If Liverpool Phil said it was a stupid decision, hewould have been be rated for anti- Manu bias.
Fact â€“ If Mourinho/Ferguson/Guardiola had done this, the vast majority would have been lauding this as genius.
Fact â€“ it worked on the night, it was definitely a BRAVE/STUPID decision, but all dependent on if it worked. It did this time,save the â€œifâ€™sâ€ for another time.

I can understand Gaals decision.

Pepe Reina came with a great penalty saving record, rarelyseen it myself after 2007.


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## Piece (Jul 6, 2014)

I would have fancied Chris Woods to do a better job than Peter Shilton in 1990! ;-)


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## Papas1982 (Jul 6, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			No they don't and yes they should.  As for Chelsea players doing it, now there you are wrong; I hate my own players doing it more than I hate the opposition doing it, and I'd love you to show my any posts where I've condoned anybody doing it.
		
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Ive not said you have written a post condoning it, but by the same token you've not started any threads in regards to their Beauvoir at time either. Hand on heart are you telling me, if you're in the 90th minute of cl final next year and hazard takes a dive your first thoughts will be of hatred towards your players?


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## Slime (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Ive not said you have written a post condoning it, but by the same token you've not started any threads in regards to their Beauvoir at time either. Hand on heart are you telling me, if you're in the 90th minute of cl final next year and hazard takes a dive your first thoughts will be of hatred towards your players?
		
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And the relevance to the thread is .................................................................


*Slime*.


Beauvoir? Is that in France ....................... I think I've been there!


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## Crazyface (Jul 7, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			Germany / Brazil / Argentina / Holland.    Do not back against this. They all know how to win these type of games and very rarely fail to do so. I think they were all a bit cautious last round as they all need to be in the quarters, it is a minimum expected, so they make sure of it. They can now resume playing properly, diving, play acting the lot, and will get though to the semis.  The only shakey team is Argentina, but I think they will do an Italy from the 80's and move up a gear, maybe wrong on this, but everything else will be right.
		
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Bit late.....but TOLD YOU !!!!!!


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## Crazyface (Jul 7, 2014)

Piece said:



			I would have fancied Chris Woods to do a better job than Peter Shilton in 1990! ;-)
		
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I said this at the time, I was screaming at the TV in the pub!!!!!!!!!! Wasn't it Clemence though?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

Slime said:



			And the relevance to the thread is .................................................................


*Slime*.


Beauvoir? Is that in France ....................... I think I've been there!
		
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Behaviour, i presume you've never had a typo. 

And the relevance was that we had been discussing players behaviour. Which if you'd read the whole conversation instead of wanting to look clever you would have seen.


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## Piece (Jul 7, 2014)

I see that Brazil are launching an appeal to get Thiago Silva's yellow card wiped off! The fact that he deliberately strolled in front of the keeper, stopped a quick attack and then lumped the ball into the net for good measure isn't worthy of a yellow!?!

While they're at it, I know, let Brazil choose the ref, in fact, make Pele the man in the middle. Also, let Brazil postpone the match until Neymar's fit. Could also reduce the size of Brazil's goal by 50% and finally, let them tackle how they want, sliding in from behind & elbowing...no, wait, they are already doing the latter.

:rant:


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## richy (Jul 7, 2014)

Piece said:



			I see that Brazil are launching an appeal to get Thiago Silva's yellow card wiped off! The fact that he deliberately strolled in front of the keeper, stopped a quick attack and then lumped the ball into the net for good measure isn't worthy of a yellow!?!

While they're at it, I know, let Brazil choose the ref, in fact, make Pele the man in the middle. Also, let Brazil postpone the match until Neymar's fit. Could also reduce the size of Brazil's goal by 50% and finally, let them tackle how they want, sliding in from behind & elbowing...no, wait, they are already doing the latter.

:rant:
		
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Yeah I saw this earlier. Absolute madness if FIFA reverse the decision, wouldn't be surprising though.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

richy said:



			Yeah I saw this earlier. Absolute madness if FIFA reverse the decision, wouldn't be surprising though.
		
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As much as a joke FIFA are. I don't remember them overturning too many incorrect reds. Think they only do it in case of mistaken identity. I'd be astonished if FIFA entertained the idea.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

As much as FIFA seem to be doing everything possible to let Brazil win, they won't do anything. It means any othe players suspended for the semi's would need to be reinstated too


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## Slime (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Behaviour, i presume you've never had a typo. 

And the relevance was that we had been discussing players behaviour. Which if you'd read the whole conversation instead of wanting to look clever you would have seen.
		
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Just trying to inject a bit of humour, no offence meant.
And yes, I do have the occasional toyp!


*Slime*.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

Slime said:



			Just trying to inject a bit of humour, no offence meant.
And yes, I do have the occasional toyp!


*Slime*.
		
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&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;


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## Crazyface (Jul 7, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			I said this at the time, I was screaming at the TV in the pub!!!!!!!!!! Wasn't it Clemence though?
		
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Chris Woods and Dave Bessant, apparently. I've just watched Saint Gary on the BBC who has just admitted it was his fault Shilts didn't get near any of the penatlies but got the direction right each time. He suggested to Shilts that he wait until the ball was kicked then dive???????? What a berk. No wonder the ball was in the back of the net each time.


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## Crazyface (Jul 7, 2014)

Sorry to interupt your rows...you can carry on now.


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## c1973 (Jul 7, 2014)

Piece said:



			I see that Brazil are launching an appeal to get Thiago Silva's yellow card wiped off! The fact that he deliberately strolled in front of the keeper, stopped a quick attack and then lumped the ball into the net for good measure isn't worthy of a yellow!?!

While they're at it, I know, let Brazil choose the ref, in fact, make Pele the man in the middle. Also, let Brazil postpone the match until Neymar's fit. Could also reduce the size of Brazil's goal by 50% and finally, let them tackle how they want, sliding in from behind & elbowing...no, wait, they are already doing the latter.

:rant:
		
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While I think Brazil have been getting away with far more than any other team I don't actually believe FIFA have instructed refs to make sure they win even although it looks that way at times (I know that's not what you're saying btw). They do appear to be getting a lot more leeway than other teams. If the yellow card gets rescinded then take it as read that my belief has changed. 

They just might postpone kick off for a wee while.........it wouldn't be the first time they've had that benefit accorded to them (4or 5 weeks might be stretching it though).

I hope the Germans destroy them in the semi and Argentina do the same to the Dutch. Mind you it would be sweet to see the Argies sing 'Brasil decime que se siente' while turning them over in their own back yard as well.


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## Slab (Jul 7, 2014)

So half the population want the rivalry of Brazil v Argentina in the final, half want the equally fierce rivalry of the Dutch against the Germans and the other half want an intercontinental affair with A.N South America team V A.N European team...

So who's it going to be?  



I'm going Germany v Argentina


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## richy (Jul 7, 2014)

Slab said:



			So half the population want the rivalry of Brazil v Argentina in the final, half want the equally fierce rivalry of the Dutch against the Germans and the other half want an intercontinental affair with A.N South America team V A.N European team...

So who's it going to be?  



I'm going Germany v Argentina
		
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That's one and a half


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## c1973 (Jul 7, 2014)

Slab said:



			So half the population want the rivalry of Brazil v Argentina in the final, half want the equally fierce rivalry of the Dutch against the Germans and the other half want an intercontinental affair with A.N South America team V A.N European team...

So who's it going to be?  



I'm going Germany v Argentina
		
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I hope you're correct as I'm quids in with the bookies if that's the final.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 7, 2014)

Since when were teams allowed to appeal a yellow card ? 

Is it a new rule for Brazil in a World Cup being held in Brazil


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## Birchy (Jul 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Since when were teams allowed to appeal a yellow card ? 

Is it a new rule for Brazil in a World Cup being held in Brazil
		
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The fact FIFA are even considering the appeal and not telling them to F right off just shows how dodgy FIFA is.

Seems like they are looking for a way to help them out.


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## Slab (Jul 7, 2014)

richy said:



			That's one and a half
		
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Technically yes but its a big world


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## Dodger (Jul 7, 2014)

What was the grounds of the yellow?

Dangerous play? Unsporting?


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## Slime (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			&#62982;&#62982;&#62982;&#62982;
		
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I'm sorry Papas, I can't see what those symbols are meant to be.
Possibly a settings issue on my PC?


*Slime*.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

Slime said:



			I'm sorry Papas, I can't see what those symbols are meant to be.
Possibly a settings issue on my PC?


*Slime*.
		
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Was simply a chuckle to your tpyo lol


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## Slime (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Was simply a chuckle to your tpyo lol
		
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:thup:


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Ive not said you have written a post condoning it, but by the same token you've not started any threads in regards to their Beauvoir at time either. Hand on heart are you telling me, if you're in the 90th minute of cl final next year and hazard takes a dive your first thoughts will be of hatred towards your players?
		
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I won't be impressed if one of them takes a dive in the 1st, 90th or any minute inbetween at any stage in any competition because it devalues the victory as far as I am concerned.  I wasn't brought up with a win at any cost mentality & I don't like that aspect of the game, or maybe I should say the business, because that is part of the issue.

As for not starting threads, maybe I haven't but as I actually go to the games and usually come home via the pub I tend to find it has already been started before I get to it.  If you search you'll find posts with my name to it criticising Chelsea players, that I didn't actually start the thread is not that relevant to my mind.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			I won't be impressed if one of them takes a dive in the 1st, 90th or any minute inbetween at any stage in any competition because it devalues the victory as far as I am concerned.  I wasn't brought up with a win at any cost mentality & I don't like that aspect of the game, or maybe I should say the business, because that is part of the issue.

As for not starting threads, maybe I haven't but as I actually go to the games and usually come home via the pub I tend to find it has already been started before I get to it.  If you search you'll find posts with my name to it criticising Chelsea players, that I didn't actually start the thread is not that relevant to my mind.
		
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Well I tip my hat to you. Because whilst I wouldn't say I advocate the change in culture now and am happy that team England aren't generally anywhere near as bad as our counterparts for theatrics. I am happy to admit that I've been a hypocrite and criticised rivals whilst cheering my team for doing the same. I would want my team to go out with the intention to cheat (mourinhos Porto) but I would accept it if it bought my team glory (unlikely). 

Fair or play to you for criticising your players, I do remember a cl game where the crowd turned on Drogba, but by and large he's still an idol and yet he probably dived as often if not more than he scored.

this isn't an attack on Chelsea btw people at all clubs do it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

There was no way FIFA would uphold that appeal. Yellow cards can't be appealed anyway and so I don't quite understand the thinking in trying to get the decision changed.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 7, 2014)

Sad news tonight too about Di Stefano dying. A proper legend of the game and amazed to find out he never played in the world cup finals


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sad news tonight too about Di Stefano dying. A proper legend of the game and amazed to find out he never played in the world cup finals
		
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Still find it strange hiw he played for two countries. Then again playing for the kings team probably helped lol


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Still find it strange hiw he played for two countries. Then again playing for the kings team probably helped lol
		
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I always thought it was three countries; Argentina, Colombia and Spain. However, at the time he played for Colombia they were not recognised by FIFA.

One of my lasting memories was watching the European Cup Final when Real beat Eintracht Frankfurt 7-3 at Hampden. Di Stefano and Puskas were unbelievable that night.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I always thought it was three countries; Argentina, Colombia and Spain. However, at the time he played for Colombia they were not recognised by FIFA.

One of my lasting memories was watching the European Cup Final when Real beat Eintracht Frankfurt 7-3 at Hampden. Di Stefano and Puskas were unbelievable that night.
		
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As a wee 30 yr old I was only commentating on what I'd read about him on a FIFA site sometime ago, maybe why the Colombian appearances weren't mentioned. Either way it would appear that his was quite the career. Was it him that was almost bought by barca or was it puskas?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			As a wee 30 yr old I was only commentating on what I'd read about him on a FIFA site sometime ago, maybe why the Colombian appearances weren't mentioned. Either way it would appear that his was quite the career. Was it him that was almost bought by barca or was it puskas?
		
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Di Stefano was, I understand, going to Barca but the Spanish FA would not sanction the deal for some reason. This then added to the feeling amongst the Catalans of a conspiracy against "their" club.

BTW I wish I was a "wee 30 yr old" again.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Di Stefano was, I understand, going to Barca but the Spanish FA would not sanction the deal for some reason. This then added to the feeling amongst the Catalans of a conspiracy against "their" club.

BTW I wish I was a "wee 30 yr old" again.
		
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From what I've read, real were the royal club of Spain, king at the time refused the deal. 
The rest as they say is history. Whilst I'm glad to be a whipper snapper, I'd love to have seen some of the previous greats before we were diluted with so many "world class" players.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 7, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			From what I've read, real were the royal club of Spain, king at the time refused the deal. 
The rest as they say is history. Whilst I'm glad to be a whipper snapper, I'd love to have seen some of the previous greats before we were diluted with so many "world class" players.
		
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Good point. England won the World Cup in '66 with only three, perhaps four, "world class" players in Banks, Moore & Bobby Charlton, also perhaps Ray Wilson.

In 2006 & 2010 we were apparently blessed with a Golden Generation of World Class players and yet got no further than quarter finals.

You don't think the media could have been kidding us on do you?

BTW Spain had a President in General Franco as Head of State at that time the monarchy was not reinstated until some time later.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 7, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Good point. England won the World Cup in '66 with only three, perhaps four, "world class" players in Banks, Moore & Bobby Charlton, also perhaps Ray Wilson.

In 2006 & 2010 we were apparently blessed with a Golden Generation of World Class players and yet got no further than quarter finals.

You don't think the media could have been kidding us on do you?

BTW Spain had a President in General Franco as Head of State at that time the monarchy was not reinstated until some time later.
		
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well ill looks like I've been schooled lol. 

Yeah ah I know that our media big our players up, but worldwide it seems there are hundreds of world lass players?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			well ill looks like I've been schooled lol. 

Yeah ah I know that our media big our players up, but worldwide it seems there are hundreds of world lass players?
		
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Well the game has become more global with good players emerging from pretty well everywhere. 

Back in '66 the only player from Africa that anyone really knew was Eusebio who, coming from Mozambique, played for Portugal and the North Koreans provided some curiosity value (and the odd upset) from Asia. Central America was overshadowed even more by South America than it is today.

As to world-class I suppose it depends upon your definition. To me it would be those players that would be in a team (or squad) selected to represent The World.

So if you don't don't make the squad; sorry, in my eyes at least, you maybe a very good player but you are not world class.

P.S. My apologies I did not mean to be all schoolmasterly in my previous post.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Well the game has become more global with good players emerging from pretty well everywhere. 

Back in '66 the only player from Africa that anyone really knew was Eusebio who, coming from Mozambique, played for Portugal and the North Koreans provided some curiosity value (and the odd upset) from Asia. Central America was overshadowed even more by South America than it is today.

As to world-class I suppose it depends upon your definition. To me it would be those players that would be in a team (or squad) selected to represent The World.

So if you don't don't make the squad; sorry, in my eyes at least, you maybe a very good player but you are not world class.

P.S. My apologies I did not mean to be all schoolmasterly in my previous post.
		
Click to expand...

Wasn't anything wrong with your last post,  it's a subject that interesting and I just didn't know all the info. 

I agree terms world class,  best player in world in position is world class then step down.  So currently I'd have say sutures,  Ronaldo,  Messi as the world class attack.  Next level is likes of Falcao and ibfahimivic, agreed followed by likes of Rooney,  rvp etc


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jul 8, 2014)

Anyone else feeling uncomfortable about actually wanting Germany to win a football match? I suppose I could look at it as wanting Brazil to lose


----------



## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

A very average Brazil side without their two best players managed by one of the most tactically inept arrogant managers about need a miracle unfortunately this is football so they may get one. You get the feeling FIFA will do all they can to help. 


Come on Germany come on Ã–zil come on BFG come on poldi

Lets upset FIFA


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Anyone else feeling uncomfortable about actually wanting Germany to win a football match? I suppose I could look at it as wanting Brazil to lose 

Click to expand...

Yes and the trouble is I am not very keen on either of the two other semi-finalists.

Reinstate Costa Rica and Colombia, I say.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			A very average Brazil side without their two best players managed by one of the most tactically inept arrogant managers about need a miracle unfortunately this is football so they may get one. You get the feeling FIFA will do all they can to help. 


Come on Germany come on Ã–zil come on BFG come on poldi

Lets upset FIFA
		
Click to expand...

yeah ah he's useless. Only won 1 World Cup already. Plus taken Portugal to wc semi and euro final. 

You are priceless!


----------



## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

A very average Brazil side without their two best players managed by one of the most tactically inept arrogant managers about need a miracle unfortunately this is football so they may get one. You get the feeling FIFA will do all they can to help. 


Come on Germany come on Ã–zil come on BFG come on poldi

Lets upset FIFA


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			A very average Brazil side without their two best players managed by one of the most tactically inept arrogant managers about need a miracle unfortunately this is football so they may get one. You get the feeling FIFA will do all they can to help. 


Come on Germany come on Ã–zil come on BFG come on poldi

Lets upset FIFA
		
Click to expand...

Hasn't that manager won the World Cup and Conf Cup as well as taking Portugal to a final and a semi final ?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hasn't that manager won the World Cup and Conf Cup as well as taking Portugal to a final and a semi final ?
		
Click to expand...

He has indeed, but in don't believe it's within the last 9 barons years for arsenal fans to have niticed....


----------



## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hasn't that manager won the World Cup and Conf Cup as well as taking Portugal to a final and a semi final ?
		
Click to expand...

He has indeed what is your point


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			He has indeed what is your point
		
Click to expand...

So how can a tactically inept manager become so successful ?


----------



## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how can a tactically inept manager become so successful ?
		
Click to expand...

I don't know luck perhaps my Nan could have won the world cup with that Brazil team how has he done in proper football club football. 

Lets see how he gets on tonight.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I don't know luck perhaps my Nan could have won the world cup with that Brazil team how has he done in proper football club football. 

Lets see how he gets on tonight.
		
Click to expand...

And my nan could have won last live with the barca team in last decade.  Does that make pep useless too?,

I think you've got a be on the wind up.  No one person spouts so much rubbish.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I don't know luck perhaps my Nan could have won the world cup with that Brazil team how has he done in proper football club football. 

Lets see how he gets on tonight.
		
Click to expand...


So Scolari wins the WC and a Conf Cup amongst multiple club trophies in Brazil and also taking Portugal into finals and you call him tactically inept 

Wenger wins nothing for nearly a decade and he is a tactical genius ?!


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Anyone else feeling uncomfortable about actually wanting Germany to win a football match? I suppose I could look at it as wanting Brazil to lose 

Click to expand...

Why would you want Brazil to lose, I don't
Understand that mentality. 
Brazil winning the World Cup on home soil
Would be great for the country.
This has to be one of the best world cups
Ever.
The atmosphere at every game has been great.
Wanting Germany to win,never.


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			A very average Brazil side without their two best players managed by one of the most tactically inept arrogant managers about need a miracle unfortunately this is football so they may get one. You get the feeling FIFA will do all they can to help. 


Come on Germany come on Ã–zil come on BFG come on poldi

Lets upset FIFA
		
Click to expand...

Got to be on a wind up.


----------



## Imurg (Jul 8, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Wanting Germany to win,never.
		
Click to expand...

Is another correct answer!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Why would you want Brazil to lose, I don't
Understand that mentality. 
Brazil winning the World Cup on home soil
Would be great for the country.
This has to be one of the best world cups
Ever.
The atmosphere at every game has been great.
Wanting Germany to win,never.
		
Click to expand...

I don't like the way that Brazil have been afforded extremely lenient officials with have gone a long way to helping them continue in the tournament 

They aren't the free flowing skillful Brazilians we used to see - they are extremely dirty and physical 

It's hard to decide who I would prefer to win from the remaining 4 but think would like to see a Germany Argentina final


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't like the way that Brazil have been afforded extremely lenient officials with have gone a long way to helping them continue in the tournament 

They aren't the free flowing skillful Brazilians we used to see - they are extremely dirty and physical 

It's hard to decide who I would prefer to win from the remaining 4 but think would like to see a Germany Argentina final
		
Click to expand...

Please mate be sensible.
Argentina have been atrocious.
There diving and time wasting is just unbelievable.
I agree Brazil haven't been like the Brazil teams
Of old,but there under a lot of pressure to
Get the job done.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Please mate be sensible.
Argentina have been atrocious.
There diving and time wasting is just unbelievable.
I agree Brazil haven't been like the Brazil teams
Of old,but there under a lot of pressure to
Get the job done.
		
Click to expand...

And Holland have been worse with their diving - but would like to see Messi really shine in a final and think Argentina / Germany could be a cracker


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## Fish (Jul 8, 2014)

Fred for captain I say


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Germany Argentina final for me (guaranteed a few quid if that happens).  

Never understood this whole Germany football rivalry that England appear to have, not one of the many Germans I have met could care less, they're more bothered about beating the Dutch and catching up with Brazil in world cup wins. Might just be the ones I've met/worked/drank with though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

I think Germany will win 2-1. Without Neymar and his creativity Brazil looked pedestrian when he went off and I just thing the Germans will be better organised and be too good, especially at set pieces. Mind you I've been atrocious at predictions this WC so stick your money on penalties


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## Golfmmad (Jul 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Anyone else feeling uncomfortable about actually wanting Germany to win a football match? I suppose I could look at it as wanting Brazil to lose 

Click to expand...

Me me! 

Brazil no longer play the "Beautiful game",  more like the, brutal game! They've pushed, pulled, kicked, obstructed and been downright dirty, right through to tonight's semi-final.

So, apart from the diving, I've enjoyed Holland's tactical games and would like to see, Holland v Germany in the final and Holland to at last win it this time.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

I predict this won't finish 11 a side


----------



## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

Looking forward to game,these only come round every 4 years.Hope Germany do it..Playing with me mate Joachim tomorrow morning in Lancs Classis, so need him in good spirits..


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Anyone else feeling uncomfortable about actually wanting Germany to win a football match? I suppose I could look at it as wanting Brazil to lose 

Click to expand...

Yes - how come I'm wanting Deutschland to win...


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Germany 2-1.

Looking forward to this, the two historically biggest hitters in international football going head to head. Hopefully a cracking game.


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Germany 2-1.

Looking forward to this, the two historically biggest hitters in international football going head to head. Hopefully a cracking game.
		
Click to expand...

Yup, have the same score here. The rest of the family (wife, two kids under 6) say 3-1 Brazil.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2014)

Goooooal


----------



## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Nice defending Brazil

Come of Germany


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

FIFA's current player of the tournament marked well there at the corner...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Brazil look toothless and Luiz exposed


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Took that well. Lovely movement drifting back as the two runners came in.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Told you Germany would be decent at set pieces. Brazil look a bit nervy and too quick to try and do things. They could do with holding the ball for a bit


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

There's plenty more out there for Germany me thinks.


----------



## Slime (Jul 8, 2014)

Can't ever remember an international player being as cowardly in the tackle as Ozil  
	
	
		
		
	


	




. 
He just keeps pulling out of them!
Oh, and Luiz's positional sense is just hilarious. :rofl:
*

Slime*.


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

Piece said:



			There's plenty more out there for Germany me thinks.
		
Click to expand...

BOOM!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Game over


----------



## Slime (Jul 8, 2014)

Bloody hell, two down already.
The officials have got a hell of a job to turn this one round!


*Slime*.


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

Piece said:



			BOOM!
		
Click to expand...

Double BOOM!!


----------



## Duckster (Jul 8, 2014)

Oh dear.

Tell the fat lady to start warming up.


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Klose. Woohoo. Way to break the record.

This could get embarrassing for Brazil if they don't get a grip. 

Bloody hell!!! Three!!!

That's my coupon burst!


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Taxi for Hulk. This is going to be embarrasing


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2014)

could get embarrassing for the home nation 

4-nil in 25 minutes :rofl:


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## Slime (Jul 8, 2014)

Bloody hell! Three down already.
Make that four!!!
Brazil will get physical now, I think the blue touchpaper has just been lit!


*Slime*.


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Yaaaaaaasssss.

Way to go Germany.


----------



## Duckster (Jul 8, 2014)

It's like a nightmare, it just gets worse!!

Cue brazillian child crying.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Expect to see empty seats.............................about now


----------



## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

What a game..Where are the boys from Brazil's defence..On the Copacabana still..Dante is useless


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

Piece said:



			Double BOOM!!
		
Click to expand...

Triple BOOM!!  

Greatest come back of all time? :rofl:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Luiz player of the tournament :rofl:

Brazil finally getting found out without the help of the ref


----------



## Slime (Jul 8, 2014)

FIVE !!!!!
This is just hilarious.


*Slime*.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Luiz player of the tournament :rofl:

Brazil finally getting found out without the help of the ref
		
Click to expand...

Been saying since the first game, they aren't that good. This is an embarrassment.


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## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

Piece said:



			Triple BOOM!!  

Greatest come back of all time? :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

Quadruple BOOM!

:rofl:


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Going to take a shed load of Blatter's bungs to sort this out


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

:rofl:

This is funny now 

Luiz again !!


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

What a game, bloody brilliant.  Absolutely tearing them apart.


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2014)

the big five-ho, the only thing that will save them is a pitch invasion lol


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 8, 2014)

Cripes , came in from work and it's 3:0 already
Now 5 minutes later it's 5:0
Heck 
Bye bye Brazil


----------



## Fish (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

This is funny now 

Luiz again !!
		
Click to expand...

Got to love the money we got for him....:whoo:


----------



## DAVEYBOY (Jul 8, 2014)

I had 3-0 and muller to score first @ 150/1 :rofl:


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 8, 2014)

My Mrs wants Germany to give Brazil a goal - just one - oh dear - what a shambles.


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			A very average Brazil side without their two best players managed by one of the most tactically inept arrogant managers about need a miracle unfortunately this is football so they may get one. You get the feeling FIFA will do all they can to help. 


Come on Germany come on Ã–zil come on BFG come on poldi

Lets upset FIFA
		
Click to expand...

Was I /Am I wrong 

5-0 ha ha


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Was I /Am I wrong 

5-0 ha ha
		
Click to expand...

the he better team are winning, but big Phil isn't out on the pitch is he? Remind me how arsenal performed in the big games last season?


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## Imurg (Jul 8, 2014)

Carnage..

But what do Brazil do now?
It's a World Cup Semi - they can't go to damage limitation, there's no point
So they have to go for it don't they?
Germany could hit double figures tonight


----------



## Golfmmad (Jul 8, 2014)

Only one word needed to describe Germany..........ruthless!!


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

Getting Muellered. Kroos control...


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			the he better team are winning, but big Phil isn't out on the pitch is he? Remind me how arsenal performed in the big games last season?
		
Click to expand...

So big Phil has it correct ok then tactics spot on are they ok

Which bit has he got right

Arsenal won their biggest game 3-2 last season


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## Rumpokid (Jul 8, 2014)

Piece said:



			Getting Muellered. Kroos control...
		
Click to expand...

Germany have Kloserd the game out..


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

I wonder if Blatter will have a word with those nice German chaps and ask them not to bully Brazil quite so much in the second half


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## williamalex1 (Jul 8, 2014)

Must be the biggest world cup semi final score coming up ???


----------



## Imurg (Jul 8, 2014)

Tell you what...
What a game its going to be if we end up with penalties out of this!


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## Golfmmad (Jul 8, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Germany have Kloserd the game out..
		
Click to expand...

Nah, I thought it was going to be "Klose"!!


----------



## fundy (Jul 8, 2014)

Gonna be plenty of fans in the lower leagues next year when their side goes 5-0 down singing "Its just like watching Brazil"


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Germany have Kloserd the game out..
		
Click to expand...

Khadera hear the Brazil sing? No, no

Lahms to the slaughter


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

So how are the official going to get this to 5-5 ? 

Couple of red cards ?


----------



## williamalex1 (Jul 8, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Tell you what...
What a game its going to be if we end up with penalties out of this!
		
Click to expand...

:rofl: but with some of the decisions so far in this world cup, you never know.


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how are the official going to get this to 5-5 ? 

Couple of red cards ?
		
Click to expand...


Lol. I think even they would struggle to get Brazil back in this game.


----------



## Imurg (Jul 8, 2014)

I wonder what the Brazilian version of a P45 is coz Big Phil's is being written out right now


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Luiz swinging some elbows around as well as being shocking defending


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 8, 2014)

I feel sorry for the Brazilian fans.
Shocking play from ill disciplined players.
Marcello thinks he's a winger,David Luis total embarrassment,
Absolute no idea of centre back positioning.
Looks like The chosen one has got it right again.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Imurg said:



			I wonder what the Brazilian version of a P45 is coz Big Phil's is being written out right now
		
Click to expand...

I don't think he'll get a table out for a while


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Tell you what, Chelsea getting Â£40 mil for Luiz is looking like the best bit of business ever done in football at the moment.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Tell you what, Chelsea getting Â£40 mil for Luiz is looking like the best bit of business ever done in football at the moment.
		
Click to expand...

I thought it was Â£50mil ?!?


----------



## chrisd (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how are the official going to get this to 5-5 ? 

Couple of red cards ?
		
Click to expand...

Only chance would be 5 own goals!


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I thought it was Â£50mil ?!?
		
Click to expand...

Was it? I thought 40, 50 is even more of a deal.


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			I feel sorry for the Brazilian fans.
Shocking play from ill disciplined players.
Marcello thinks he's a winger,David Luis total embarrassment,
Absolute no idea of centre back positioning.
Looks like The *chosen one* has got it right again.
		
Click to expand...

Moyesy?!?


----------



## pokerjoke (Jul 8, 2014)

Piece said:



			Moyesy?!? 

Click to expand...

Oi less of that


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jul 8, 2014)

Good to see all the passion and singing of the national anthem at the top of their voices is working out well.


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

Dante. Luiz. Marcelo. That's a lot hair in the back. Shame Don King can't play right back!


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Germany have taken the foot off the gas a bit here, need to be careful or Brazil could get back into this.














:rofl:


----------



## Slime (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Was it? I thought 40, 50 is even more of a deal. 

Click to expand...

I think it was â‚¬50m which equated to around Â£40m .......................... I think.
Regardless, great bit of business although I rated him as a mid-fielder.


*Slime*.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Good to see all the passion and singing of the national anthem at the top of their voices is working out well.

Click to expand...

Surely you are not suggesting that national teams need anything other than passion and belief if they are to be successful?

That could be a shock to one or two on here.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

In 2009 Germany beat England in the U21 Euro Final 

7 from that team are playing tonight 

Guess how many from the England team went to the WC


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)

piece said:



			quadruple boom!

:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

pentruple(?) boom!


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

This is one of those games that folk talk about in years to come.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jul 8, 2014)

At least I can have a relatively early night as I don't think this one's going to extra time and penalties.


----------



## Piece (Jul 8, 2014)




----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In 2009 Germany beat England in the U21 Euro Final 

7 from that team are playing tonight 

Guess how many from the England team went to the WC
		
Click to expand...

Irrelevant. England are poor for years before and since and it wouldn't have made any difference this time. In the way you moaned that not winning PL titles cost managers, not qualifying or living up to media expectation has cost England manager's their job too. How can you get any level of consistency in performance with different managers playing different methods using different players

As it goes, I think that while Germany are rampant tonight Brazil are inept in equal measure. I would fancy either Argentina or (ideally) Holland will be far more organised and that it won't be a given that Germany will win


----------



## Hacker Khan (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			This is one of those games that folk talk about in years to come.
		
Click to expand...

People will say 'where are you when Germany stuffed Brazil , no honestly, the Brazil defence, where were you?'


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Irrelevant. England are poor for years before and since and it wouldn't have made any difference this time. In the way you moaned that not winning PL titles cost managers, not qualifying or living up to media expectation has cost England manager's their job too. How can you get any level of consistency in performance with different managers playing different methods using different players

As it goes, I think that while Germany are rampant tonight Brazil are inept in equal measure. I would fancy either Argentina or (ideally) Holland will be far more organised and that it won't be a given that Germany will win
		
Click to expand...

The point is which you clearly are missing is these teams are being brought through the system as team 

Starting from under 15 all the way through to the main team they play the same system 

When it comes to the Under 21 Tournaments all the best players go regardless. Our best U21's don't 

The whole structure needs to change - these German players gained tournament experience from an early age - ours don't go.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 8, 2014)

oh good grief!


----------



## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Big Phil knows what he is doing


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Not missed the point. Just realistic to know the FA haven't got the balls to consider implementing this kind of costly and long term programme. That will never change.


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The point is which you clearly are missing is these teams are being brought through the system as team 

Starting from under 15 all the way through to the main team they play the same system 

When it comes to the Under 21 Tournaments all the best players go regardless. Our best U21's don't 

The whole structure needs to change - these German players gained tournament experience from an early age - ours don't go.
		
Click to expand...

Spain done the same thing with their kids, bringing them through together, pretty sure France done it as well.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Big Phil knows what he is doing
		
Click to expand...


Are you judging by one game ?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Spain done the same thing with their kids, bringing them through together, pretty sure France done it as well.
		
Click to expand...


They do indeed 

When it comes to the U21 - all the eligible players go - we allow ours to have the summer off or even put them in the main team to go to some tournament


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The point is which you clearly are missing is these teams are being brought through the system as team 

Starting from under 15 all the way through to the main team they play the same system 

When it comes to the Under 21 Tournaments all the best players go regardless. Our best U21's don't 

The whole structure needs to change - these German players gained tournament experience from an early age - ours don't go.
		
Click to expand...

but you yourself called for the youngsters to be thrown in. How many of them should have played with u21 before getting called up to England too early?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Spain done the same thing with their kids, bringing them through together, pretty sure France done it as well.
		
Click to expand...

They did but my point remains the same. The FA will not have the balls to invest in such a long term and expensive policy


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			but you yourself called for the youngsters to be thrown in. How many of them should have played with u21 before getting called up to England too early?
		
Click to expand...

What under 21 tournament was there this year ? There was one last year and all our top under 21's pulled out of it 

Imagine if they had played and gained the expirence and then used that in this tournament - just like Germany and Spain etc


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			They did but my point remains the same. The FA will not have the balls to invest in such a long term and expensive policy
		
Click to expand...

You're probably right. They could do worse than look at the German system in its entirety though, as could the sfa.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			but you yourself called for the youngsters to be thrown in. How many of them should have played with u21 before getting called up to England too early?
		
Click to expand...

Don't confuse him with facts. We played Sterling, Sturridge Lallana, Henderson and others and they weren't good enough


----------



## cookelad (Jul 8, 2014)

Gutted I had a pound on Germany 6-0!


----------



## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

Shocking defending, absolutely shocking.......


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 8, 2014)

The fightback has begun!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Don't confuse him with facts. We played Sterling, Sturridge Lallana, Henderson and others and they weren't good enough
		
Click to expand...


Missing the point entirely 

They weren't good enough because they had zero tournament experience 

There was a U21 tournament last summer - how many of England's players went.


----------



## Dodger (Jul 8, 2014)

Superb from the men of the Fatherland.

Big Phil got it totally wrong tonight. Some gaffer.


----------



## HawkeyeMS (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Shocking defending, absolutely shocking.......
		
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Who made you Alan Hansen?


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## richy (Jul 8, 2014)

Oscar bubbling like a big kid. I know he only looks 6 but he doesn't need to go on like it. Grow up FFS!!!


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Who made you Alan Hansen? 

Click to expand...


Someone got it.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 8, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Superb from the men of the Fatherland.

Big Phil got it totally wrong tonight. Some gaffer.
		
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Big Phil may have got it wrong but every single one of those Brazilian players needs to take a long hard look at himself. To a man they were an embarrassment to their country and to the world cup as a whole. They may have been missing Silva and Neymar but there are absolutely no excuses for a spineless performance like that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Missing the point entirely 

They weren't good enough because they had zero tournament experience 

There was a U21 tournament last summer - how many of England's players went.
		
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They have played U21 and most went through the WC campaign so they have experience. Don't buy it and as you ignore (cos it don't fit with your opinion) the FA will never sign up to such a long term and expensive blueprint.


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

A tad annoying it's all about Brazil getting beat rather than Germany winning on the beeb here.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			A tad annoying it's all about Brazil getting beat rather than Germany winning on the beeb here.
		
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To be fair though it was Brazil being shocking and easier to pick fault, especially for Hansen


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## Dodger (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be fair though it was Brazil being shocking and easier to pick fault, especially for Hansen
		
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If Hansen had a pint it would be half empty.

The man is a tube.


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## freddielong (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you judging by one game ?
		
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I said it beforehand this game merely highlights it


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			They have played U21 and most went through the WC campaign so they have experience. Don't buy it and as you ignore (cos it don't fit with your opinion) the FA will never sign up to such a long term and expensive blueprint.
		
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1 player from the Under 21 tournament for England last summer made the WC squad - Henderson 

The blueprint is continually being proven to work - if England want to gain success then it's a blueprint they need to copy - no idea where you get it's cost being too much from ?! The English FA has bigger budgets that both Spain and Germany ! By a long way


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be fair though it was Brazil being shocking and easier to pick fault, especially for Hansen
		
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You still need to beat what's in front of you and Germany were clinical. A great team performance. Agree Brazil were shocking though.


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## Dodger (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1 player from the Under 21 tournament for England last summer made the WC squad - Henderson 

The blueprint is continually being proven to work - if England want to gain success then it's a blueprint they need to copy - no idea where you get it's cost being too much from ?! The English FA has bigger budgets that both Spain and Germany ! By a long way
		
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Interesting.How many made it to the Germany squad for this years WC?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			1 player from the Under 21 tournament for England last summer made the WC squad - Henderson 

The blueprint is continually being proven to work - if England want to gain success then it's a blueprint they need to copy - no idea where you get it's cost being too much from ?! The English FA has bigger budgets that both Spain and Germany ! By a long way
		
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Whether it comes to pounds and pence or not and I still think the FA will be reluctant to invest in such a policy especially with St Georges Park to pay off. The FA, like FIF itself are self interested and don't serve the greater good of the game. It's irrelevant whether the blueprint works, it won't change. Please accept that or give me facts to support your belief that it will


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

http://afootballreport.com/post/37896429667/where-a-club-is-a-club-the-german-way

A decent article on the German system. Not only better for producing talent, but also a much better deal for the fans. Ditch the big wages and get the cash into grass roots.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



http://afootballreport.com/post/37896429667/where-a-club-is-a-club-the-german-way

A decent article on the German system. Not only better for producing talent, but also a much better deal for the fans. Ditch the big wages and get the cash into grass roots.
		
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Cash in grass roots. There's the first stumbling block with the FA set up as it is


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## Papas1982 (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What under 21 tournament was there this year ? There was one last year and all our top under 21's pulled out of it 

Imagine if they had played and gained the expirence and then used that in this tournament - just like Germany and Spain etc
		
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That's irrelevant, the teams you mentioned would leave players in their u21s until they had experience. Calling the young English players up for this World Cup will mean they won't go to later tournaments for u21's.


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## c1973 (Jul 8, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cash in grass roots. There's the first stumbling block with the FA set up as it is
		
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Yep. It's not only the FA though, the clubs need to change as well, unfortunately greed and a sense of self interest will prevail. It's a shame as it's not difficult to do, it's just difficult to get people to do it. 

Like I said earlier, I wish the sfa would look at it as well.


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## Dodger (Jul 8, 2014)

Come on Phil how many German U-21'S made it from last year to this years world cup?


Here's Wee Chesney's formation for our match v Germany in Dortmund in September - :lol:


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## chrisd (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Yep. It's not only the FA though, the clubs need to change as well, unfortunately greed and a sense of self interest will prevail. It's a shame as it's not difficult to do, it's just difficult to get people to do it. 

Like I said earlier, I wish the sfa would look at it as well.
		
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Add to that the fact that none of the top teams have English managers why would a foreign manager buy into anything that helps the national squad over their team?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			That's irrelevant, the teams you mentioned would leave players in their u21s until they had experience. Calling the young English players up for this World Cup will mean they won't go to later tournaments for u21's.
		
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Why won't they ? Thiago went back to the Under 21's after also playing for Spanish Main squad 

Mata did the same also - as did Goetze and Draxler ( both got injured ) 

There is no reason why a player who is eligible to play U21 shouldn't - but for England they don't.


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## williamalex1 (Jul 8, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Come on Phil how many German U-21'S made it from last year to this years world cup?


Here's Wee Chesney's formation for our match v Germany in Dortmund in September - :lol:






Click to expand...

Awe naw another 6-4-0


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Come on Phil how many German U-21'S made it from last year to this years world cup?


Here's Wee Chesney's formation for our match v Germany in Dortmund in September - :lol:






Click to expand...

From the initial squad 5 until 3 pulled out with injury


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## Dodger (Jul 8, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			From the initial squad 5 until 3 pulled out with injury
		
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2 then.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 8, 2014)

c1973 said:



http://afootballreport.com/post/37896429667/where-a-club-is-a-club-the-german-way

A decent article on the German system. Not only better for producing talent, but also a much better deal for the fans. Ditch the big wages and get the cash into grass roots.
		
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It's a great blueprint and one that is clearer producing quality players and enables a uniformity between the representative sides 

Spain follow the same method.


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## Stuey01 (Jul 8, 2014)

Something that struck me about Germany during the USA game.  Their starting 11 included 7 players from Bayern Munich. Seven.
So the best team in Germany is supplying the majority of the national team.
Looks a bit different in England.

Unbelievable game tonight. Brazil have been crap all tournament, the manner of this defeat is still shocking. Brilliant from Germany


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## quinn (Jul 8, 2014)

, our young players aren't good enough, if our future is Barkley, Sturridge, sterling and lallana I'd be prepared for a lot more years of leaving tournaments early, nothing to do with getting experience, not one player stood out at this World Cup, another golden generation that will just pass through, we'll qualify for the euros and we'll be having the same conversation in two years time,


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 9, 2014)

quinn said:



			, our young players aren't good enough, if our future is Barkley, Sturridge, sterling and lallana I'd be prepared for a lot more years of leaving tournaments early, nothing to do with getting experience, not one player stood out at this World Cup, another golden generation that will just pass through, we'll qualify for the euros and we'll be having the same conversation in two years time,
		
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Current crop are hardly a 'golden generation' though are they?  More like '_a few players who may well show some ability to control the ball'_ at best.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

I wouldn't be judging the potential and ability of those players based on the World Cup.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)




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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

williamalex1 said:



			Awe naw another 6-4-0
		
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At least one of those is inelligible..Maybe more of em.


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## Crazyface (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cash in grass roots. There's the first stumbling block with the FA set up as it is
		
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THIS!!!! To start down the coaching route you have to pay at every stage. I spoke to a bloke who had coaching level 2 about 6 months ago. He said their was no way the average bloke interested in getting the coaching badges would be able to afford it. The cost ran into the thousands. The FA only want ex-players, who have been trained and coached a certain way, and will pass this cr@p on to future generation. The FA do not want possible innovators messing about in their football.


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## Crazyface (Jul 9, 2014)

fundy said:



			Gonna be plenty of fans in the lower leagues next year when their side goes 5-0 down singing "Its just like watching Brazil" 

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Best post. Very funny !!!!!!!!!


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## Crazyface (Jul 9, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Looking forward to game,these only come round every 4 years.Hope Germany do it..Playing with me mate Joachim tomorrow morning in Lancs Classis, so need him in good spirits..
		
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I think this is a given now. He'll be pickled.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wouldn't be judging the potential and ability of those players based on the World Cup.
		
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I would. You were harping on about the likes of Sterling and Sturridge being the main two strikers throughout England's dismal run and the nucleus of the side is going to be in place for at least the EC campaign. On present form they are lacking.

On a separate issue, this so called masterplan is all well and good but as I've pointed out (and you chose to ignore) the FA won't change from their current policy so its a flawed argument. Not only have we the white elephant that's the St Georges Park national centre, but the FA invested millions in Greg Dyke's report. He came back with a blueprint for the future. We are very good at all levels from U16-U19 and then the crop of English players go to their clubs and can't get a game and so go out on loan to lower league clubs or sit and rot in reserves. Dyke came up with an idea to give more players match exposure with the feeder league but that was rubbished across the board. If every time someone thinks outside the box like this and it proves too experimental, expensive or affects the current status quo the PL and FA will rebuke it. On that subject while there are two entities controlling different interests there will never be any unified policy.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 9, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			Best post. Very funny !!!!!!!!!
		
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Oh I can already hear _'are you Brazeeel in disguise - are you Braaazeeel in disguise'_


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			. Not only have we the white elephant that's the St Georges Park national centre,
		
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A new low for this debate, describing the one thing that the FA have done in recent years that benefits the game as a "white elephant".

St George's is, above all, being used to train coaches the shortage of which is the biggest weakness in the English game.

If you had described Wemberlee as a waste of resources I would have agreed with you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I would. You were harping on about the likes of Sterling and Sturridge being the main two strikers throughout England's dismal run and the nucleus of the side is going to be in place for at least the EC campaign. On present form they are lacking.

On a separate issue, this so called masterplan is all well and good but as I've pointed out (and you chose to ignore) the FA won't change from their current policy so its a flawed argument. Not only have we the white elephant that's the St Georges Park national centre, but the FA invested millions in Greg Dyke's report. He came back with a blueprint for the future. We are very good at all levels from U16-U19 and then the crop of English players go to their clubs and can't get a game and so go out on loan to lower league clubs or sit and rot in reserves. Dyke came up with an idea to give more players match exposure with the feeder league but that was rubbished across the board. If every time someone thinks outside the box like this and it proves too experimental, expensive or affects the current status quo the PL and FA will rebuke it. On that subject while there are two entities controlling different interests there will never be any unified policy.
		
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Judging players based on a total of three games is lazy and thankfully not what scouts do - Sterling isn't even 20 yet and you say he is "lacking" - what exactly is he "lacking " Homer that you can see - with the tactics set out by Owl Face - Rodrieguez would have struggled 

Why exactly is Germany's model "flawed" ?! Because the FA won't adopt it - I know they won't because they allow some suit and Danny Mills to decide the future of the game when the simplest method is to copy the successful methods being employed by the successful teams. 

And why is St George's a white elephant?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			A new low for this debate, describing the one thing that the FA have done in recent years that benefits the game as a "white elephant".

St George's is, above all, being used to train coaches the shortage of which is the biggest weakness in the English game.

If you had described Wemberlee as a waste of resources I would have agreed with you.
		
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White elephant may be a tad strong and I agree that coaches are badly needed. However does such a huge complex really justify the enormous costs and resources? If you take St Georges out of the equation though, the fact remains that while we have kids able to compete at European level successfully right up to U18 the process is then flawed and they fail to make the breakthrough unless a rare talent (Walcott, Sterling, Barkely etc). Whereas the other nations in LP's blueprint seem to then be able to filter the nucleus of their juniors sides via the U21 and into the full team, the vast majority of ours seem destined to be farmed out by parent clubs for lower league experience and rarely seem to come back and then find a place in the first team anyway

The FA won't chenge this anytime soon. The Dyke report clearly pointed out the short fall in English players in the PL (around 32%) and when the report was published with ideas to resolve this it was panned by the PL, the press, fans and ignored by the FA


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## BoadieBroadus (Jul 9, 2014)

one problem has to be the lack of exposure English players are getting to other approaches to the game. look at the squads of the good teams at the world cup and they have players playing in ENgland, Spain, Italy, Portugal Germany etc gaining a variety of experiences and different approaches.

the only player in the England squad playing outside of England, I think, is reserve keeper Forster playing for the mighty 'Tic.

part of that is the money that the premier league (and championship) dishes out to players to sit around and not necessarily get a game, but it is a contributing factor to the stagnant, insular, regression that the England team (and the other home nations) are suffering from.


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I would. You were harping on about the likes of Sterling and Sturridge being the main two strikers throughout England's dismal run and the nucleus of the side is going to be in place for at least the EC campaign. On present form they are lacking.

On a separate issue, this so called masterplan is all well and good but as I've pointed out (and you chose to ignore) the FA won't change from their current policy so its a flawed argument. Not only have we the white elephant that's the St Georges Park national centre, but the FA invested millions in Greg Dyke's report. He came back with a blueprint for the future. We are very good at all levels from U16-U19 and then the crop of English players go to their clubs and can't get a game and so go out on loan to lower league clubs or sit and rot in reserves. Dyke came up with an idea to give more players match exposure with the feeder league but that was rubbished across the board. If every time someone thinks outside the box like this and it proves too experimental, expensive or affects the current status quo the PL and FA will rebuke it. *On that subject while there are two entities controlling different interests there will never be any unified policy.*

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100% correct. 

I wouldn't agree it's a flawed argument just because those in power will not adopt it. Several countries have proven its anything but flawed. 

Football in this island has become way too dependent on big bucks and foreign 'talent', obviously more so in England. As I said earlier I agree that those in charge of the game will not adopt any radical long term policy, more interested in short term gains (to the detriment of the game) and protecting the status quo (junkets and jobs for the boys). The only way change will be considered is if fans start voting with their feet or tv cash dries up.

Average season ticket price in Bundesliga - Â£207
Average season ticket price in EPL - Â£467
Tv cash generated EPL - Â£2.4 billion*
Tv cash generated Bundesliga - apx Â£1 billion less*

* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ier-League-ahead-Bundesliga-money-charts.html

That's a big difference, yet in Germany they are producing more home grown talent with their resources. They realised they needed to restructure the game root and branch and did so, benefiting German players which in turn benefits the clubs and also made the game more accessible to supporters too. Without delving into the details of how they went about setting up academy's etc I really don't see this as a flawed argument. The proof is there for all to see that the German method of investing in German talent is working and the EPL method of lining foreign (often mediocre) players pockets is not working.

I think there is a difference in mentality as well. Our teams (i include Scotland here) seem to be full of players who view the trappings of success as the achievement and winning as a welcome bonus, Germans seem to view winning as the achievement and the trappings of success as a welcome bonus.

I may be wrong and accept the difference in opinions though.


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## williamalex1 (Jul 9, 2014)

My mate still coaches under thirteens, but he says  paperwork , health safety regulations and  guidelines are a pain in the a**e . Now theres young whippersnappers with qualifications as long as your arm, but no real pro football experience telling a ex player/ coach how things are to be done.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

My friend is out in Brazil and he has said the atmosphere has took a massive u turn - got very unfriendly and nasty last night 

From everyone being made to feel welcome to now it's getting scarey - already some trouble in the bars and people being arrested and in hospital.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The FA won't chenge this anytime soon. The Dyke report clearly pointed out the short fall in English players in the PL (around 32%) and when the report was published with ideas to resolve this it was panned by the PL, the press, fans and ignored by the FA
		
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Maintaining the metaphors the number of English players in the PL is a "red herring".

More pertinent is the number of good English players who could be playing anywhere.

How many of the French, Dutch, German, Portuguese, Argentinian squads play in their home leagues or the growing number of African players. Compare it with how little demand there has ever been for English players from successful foreign clubs. Very few isolated signings.

Why is that? In my opinion it is simply that English players are, and have not been for years, good enough. 

Forget the odd success at U16 - U19 level, that can largely be attributed to the diifference in football culture at that age where other countries are focussing on skill development whilst our young players are being encouraged to win leagues etc;

If young English players were good enough most PL clubs would have no hesitation in using them.

Protectionism does not work in business and it will not work in sport. Improve the product, in this case the players.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Maintaining the metaphors the number of English players in the PL is a "red herring".

More pertinent is the number of good English players who could be playing anywhere.

How many of the French, Dutch, German, Portuguese, Argentinian squads play in their home leagues or the growing number of African players. Compare it with how little demand there has ever been for English players from successful foreign clubs. Very few isolated signings.

Why is that? In my opinion it is simply that English players are, and have not been for years, good enough. 

Forget the odd success at U16 - U19 level, that can largely be attributed to the diifference in football culture at that age where other countries are focussing on skill development whilst our young players are being encouraged to win leagues etc;

If young English players were good enough most PL clubs would have no hesitation in using them.

Protectionism does not work in business and it will not work in sport. Improve the product, in this case the players.
		
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That could also have to do with the fact that the price tag on decent young English players is usually ridiculously high. Take Luke Shaw for example who went for around Â£30M yet Liverpool are looking to sign the Belgian forward Origi for around Â£10M.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			That could also have to do with the fact that the price tag on decent young English players is usually ridiculously high. Take Luke Shaw for example who went for around Â£30M yet Liverpool are looking to sign the Belgian forward Origi for around Â£10M.
		
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Supply and demand.

If there were more decent young English players their selling clubs would be unable to charge a premium.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Flawed in the simple fact that while it clearly has been proven to work with Germany, France and Spain, it will never be adopted for the English side. Nothing flawed with the process at all, merely the powers that be that allegedly have the good of the game at heart.

IF, and it's a huge one at that, we get one unified power without the self indulgence of the FA and financial interest of PL plc then I can see how it could work. Until then, the new crop of players will be built up as the next golden age in the media, under perform and the circle will continue.


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## HawkeyeMS (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Supply and demand.

If there were more decent young English players their selling clubs would be unable to charge a premium.
		
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Could be. Maybe it's a result of the homegrown players rule?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

What Germany have done is build a team 

It started in 2006 

Klinsmann came in a decided he wanted the national teams to all play the same way 

It took until 2009 when that u21 team started to flourish and they just built from that 

They aren't blessed with superstars but they have built a team 

England need to start building the teams from early ages - same tactics and formations right through the ages 

Germany don't have a Messi or a Ribery or a Suarez or Ronaldo or a Neymar yet as a team they clearly look head and shoulders above everyone 

Even Spain didn't have a true global superstar before hand - they had a team. 

The FA asked an ex BBC director to look at the make up of the national team ?! Germany asked one or their greatest strikers. 

I know which one I would prefer to look at.

England could even go the whole way and employ Klinsmann - he appears to know exactly what he is doing


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What Germany have done is build a team 

It started in 2006 

Klinsmann came in a decided he wanted the national teams to all play the same way 

It took until 2009 when that u21 team started to flourish and they just built from that 

They aren't blessed with superstars but they have built a team 

England need to start building the teams from early ages - same tactics and formations right through the ages 

Germany don't have a Messi or a Ribery or a Suarez or Ronaldo or a Neymar yet as a team they clearly look head and shoulders above everyone 

Even Spain didn't have a true global superstar before hand - they had a team. 

The FA asked an ex BBC director to look at the make up of the national team ?! Germany asked one or their greatest strikers. 

I know which one I would prefer to look at.

England could even go the whole way and employ Klinsmann - he appears to know exactly what he is doing
		
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You keep saying this!!!!!!!!! I agree that the plan they have works. What you are missing is that the FA, ultimately in charge of the England team, won't do this. Add in the involvement and self interest of the PL and this is never going to be adopted. Dyke for all his faults came up with a report and his findings were dismissed out of hand despite him showing what any footballer employed to do the role would have done, there isn't enough emerging English talent coming through once they peak at U18. 

It doesn't matter who the FA employ to write the report, the findings are already there. The problem is while the FA and PL effectively control the games as two separate powers there won't be sufficient cooperation to make this work. You can bang on as many time as you like about this blueprint to success but it ain't happening here anytime soon


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## Crazyface (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What Germany have done is build a team 

It started in 2006 

Klinsmann came in a decided he wanted the national teams to all play the same way 

It took until 2009 when that u21 team started to flourish and they just built from that 

They aren't blessed with superstars but they have built a team 

England need to start building the teams from early ages - same tactics and formations right through the ages 

Germany don't have a Messi or a Ribery or a Suarez or Ronaldo or a Neymar yet as a team they clearly look head and shoulders above everyone 

Even Spain didn't have a true global superstar before hand - they had a team. 

The FA asked an ex BBC director to look at the make up of the national team ?! Germany asked one or their greatest strikers. 

I know which one I would prefer to look at.

England could even go the whole way and employ Klinsmann - he appears to know exactly what he is doing
		
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Agreed !!!!!!!!!


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You keep saying this!!!!!!!!! I agree that the plan they have works. What you are missing is that the FA, ultimately in charge of the England team, won't do this. Add in the involvement and self interest of the PL and this is never going to be adopted. Dyke for all his faults came up with a report and his findings were dismissed out of hand despite him showing what any footballer employed to do the role would have done, there isn't enough emerging English talent coming through once they peak at U18. 

It doesn't matter who the FA employ to write the report, the findings are already there. The problem is while the FA and PL effectively control the games as two separate powers there won't be sufficient cooperation to make this work. You can bang on as many time as you like about this blueprint to success but it ain't happening here anytime soon
		
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The big idea Dyke came up with, the "B" league, would have meant the death of lower league football, and it only "may" have had a good impact on the National team. Massive gamble, and would have destroyed a lot of history, in the hope of a bit of success in the national team.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 9, 2014)

In wee Chesney we trust


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			You keep saying this!!!!!!!!! I agree that the plan they have works. What you are missing is that the FA, ultimately in charge of the England team, won't do this. Add in the involvement and self interest of the PL and this is never going to be adopted. Dyke for all his faults came up with a report and his findings were dismissed out of hand despite him showing what any footballer employed to do the role would have done, there isn't enough emerging English talent coming through once they peak at U18. 

It doesn't matter who the FA employ to write the report, the findings are already there. The problem is while the FA and PL effectively control the games as two separate powers there won't be sufficient cooperation to make this work. You can bang on as many time as you like about this blueprint to success but it ain't happening here anytime soon
		
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Suggest you read what Dyke actually came up with - most of it was nonsense and ignored the real problems and came up with stupid suggestions like B Teams etc


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			there isn't enough emerging English talent coming through once they peak at U18.
		
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Am I interpreting you correctly? Are you saying that up to U18 things are O.K.?

From my involvement in the game in the past I can assure you it is not. 

Because of our obsession with tin pot leagues and trophies, stupid "coaches/managers" plus parents bellowing at kids to "get rid, don't take chances around your own box, knock it long" and so forth it is a wonder that any players at all emerge in this country.

The damage is often done by the age of 13 with the emphasis on pace and strength and little placed upon skill or technique.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Am I interpreting you correctly? Are you saying that up to U18 things are O.K.?

From my involvement in the game in the past I can assure you it is not. 

Because of our obsession with tin pot leagues and trophies, stupid "coaches/managers" plus parents bellowing at kids to "get rid, don't take chances around your own box, knock it long" and so forth it is a wonder that any players at all emerge in this country.

The damage is often done by the age of 13 with the emphasis on pace and strength and little placed upon skill or technique.
		
Click to expand...

You last line is a major problem in this country 

Players like Messi , Iniesta and Xavi would have been ignored here


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Suggest you read what Dyke actually came up with - most of it was nonsense and ignored the real problems and came up with *stupid suggestions like B Teams etc*

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You mean like they do in Spain, Holland and Germany, those perennial underachievers on the world stage recently


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			You mean like they do in Spain, Holland and Germany, those perennial underachievers on the world stage recently 

Click to expand...


The make up of those teams are a world apart from here and the make up of the leagues ( far less clubs ) allow it to happen in those countries - anyone can see that.

Dykes idea was to create a new league for them only with no promotion etc 

If a club wants to have a B team then let them start from the bottom up - like they have done in those countries you mention as opposed to trying to create false competition


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## fundy (Jul 9, 2014)

This is quite funny

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...fked-by-germany-in-the-world-cup-9594287.html


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The make up of those teams are a world apart from here and the make up of the leagues ( far less clubs ) allow it to happen in those countries - anyone can see that.

Dykes idea was to create a new league for them only with no promotion etc 

If a club wants to have a B team then let them start from the bottom up - like they have done in those countries you mention as opposed to trying to create false competition
		
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So lets get this straight. You want B teams as per Spain, Germany and others in order to get England producing world class players and then you want to hamstring the idea and making them start from the bottom (Ryman South?) and delay the process accordingly

I don't think anyone is arguing that there is a need to do something but bearing in mind Dyke's plan was vetoed on most fronts as unworkable and the fact that with the FA and PL having different agendas and unlikely to co-exist in any format to make this work, the proposal to then make it even more unpallatable to clubs and authorities is a strange one


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## Adi2Dassler (Jul 9, 2014)

The English footballing system is all wrong imo ( Scotland is even worse) 

Use Germany and Spain as counter points.Neither of these countries has a national stadium as such, let alone one that cost what, Â£900 Million or a St.Georges Park bring the cost for a ground and training base to over Â£1 Billion.They take the team around the country and for big games use their biggest ground.They engage with the regions.

They also don't have the division of FA and Premier league like England does.The Premier League doesn't care about international football, why would they when it's just another way for their workers to be injured.This is the biggets problem and it's too far gone to rectify.The gentrification, the desire to satisfy TV audiences for 'the best league in the world' lolz to raise billions in advertising and endorsements is unparalleled anywhere else in the football world.

So white elephant ego projects and division of church and state instead of using the facilities already there and creating regional schools of excellence, local canteras all playing the same way, feeding into clubs and onto the national team would work brilliantly in England, but the race for cash is all important.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So lets get this straight. You want B teams as per Spain, Germany and others in order to get England producing world class players and then you want to hamstring the idea and making them start from the bottom (Ryman South?) and delay the process accordingly

I don't think anyone is arguing that there is a need to do something but bearing in mind Dyke's plan was vetoed on most fronts as unworkable and the fact that with the FA and PL having different agendas and unlikely to co-exist in any format to make this work, the proposal to then make it even more unpallatable to clubs and authorities is a strange one
		
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Our country's game doesn't have the make up to allow B teams - I would never would want to see any big club create a B Team and then dumped straight into the conference 

What needs to done is a restructure of the reserves league 

That's needs to be enhanced to become a stronger league to allow clubs to develop their players without the need to send them on loan.

Dyke is a suit - he is a CEO , a businessman - he isn't a footballer and his ideas were all about business 

Get a footballer in and give them the iron rod and get rid of suits and yes men


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			The English footballing system is all wrong imo ( Scotland is even worse) 

Use Germany and Spain as counter points.Neither of these countries has a national stadium as such, let alone one that cost what, Â£900 Million or a St.Georges Park bring the cost for a ground and training base to over Â£1 Billion.They take the team around the country and for big games use their biggest ground.They engage with the regions.

They also don't have the division of FA and Premier league like England does.The Premier League doesn't care about international football, why would they when it's just another way for their workers to be injured.This is the biggets problem and it's too far gone to rectify.The gentrification, the desire to satisfy TV audiences for 'the best league in the world' lolz to raise billions in advertising and endorsements is unparalleled anywhere else in the football world.

So white elephant ego projects and division of church and state instead of using the facilities already there and creating regional schools of excellence, local canteras all playing the same way, feeding into clubs and onto the national team would work brilliantly in England, but the race for cash is all important.
		
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Pretty fair if rather bleak summary. I agree that had the money on Wembley and St Georges been invested inside the game then development and nuturing of talent may have been accelerated even if the German blue print was never adopted. As it is, with two factions, neither of which are mutually agreeable, there will never be polarity and the plan will never move on


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Pretty fair if rather bleak summary. I agree that had the money on Wembley and St Georges been invested inside the game then development and nuturing of talent may have been accelerated even if the German blue print was never adopted. As it is, with two factions, neither of which are mutually agreeable, there will never be polarity and the plan will never move on
		
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So if we did not have St George's Park where would the work take place, that is currently undertaken there?

Perhaps out of ignorance there seems to be an impression that it is just a training ground for the national team,

Most of our European competitors have National Centres including France, Germany Holland and Italy.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

If we accept St Georges is fundamental then to the emergence and development of footballing and the coaches of the future, and that others have these types of centre of excellence, what about one national stadium and the intrinsic costs involved for the FA in the building of that. I have probably done St Georges a huge disservice and happy to concede that point 

Many other nations aren't reliant on one location and surely it will only help increase interest in the national side if families were able to get to games easier than schelpping to London, in rush hours, at huge expense. Make it more a game for the people and perhaps people at grass roots will engage


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

The national stadium wasn't a bad idea 

The cost of it is a different matter 

Wales managed to get the Arms Park sorted at a fraction of the cost - same with Croke Park and Aviva stadium 

Wemberlee is a soulless stadium with no atmosphere and full of corporate facilities.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If we accept St Georges is fundamental then to the emergence and development of footballing and the coaches of the future, and that others have these types of centre of excellence, what about one national stadium and the intrinsic costs involved for the FA in the building of that. I have probably done St Georges a huge disservice and happy to concede that point 

Many other nations aren't reliant on one location and surely it will only help increase interest in the national side if families were able to get to games easier than schelpping to London, in rush hours, at huge expense. Make it more a game for the people and perhaps people at grass roots will engage
		
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As I said previously I agree 100% with you on that one Homer.

The Â£900 million+ spent on Wembley must count as one of the greatest wastes of money of all time. National team could travel the country and Cup Finals and play offs could have continued at the Millennium Stadium.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Our country's game doesn't have the make up to allow B teams - I would never would want to see any big club create a B Team and then dumped straight into the conference 

What needs to done is a restructure of the reserves league 

That's needs to be enhanced to become a stronger league to allow clubs to develop their players without the need to send them on loan.

Dyke is a suit - he is a CEO , a businessman - he isn't a footballer and his ideas were all about business 

Get a footballer in and give them the iron rod and get rid of suits and yes men
		
Click to expand...

Meanwhile....back in the real world. You said a minute ago make these teams start at the bottom and now you don't want them in the conference! There is already a successful U18 and U21 reserve/youth team leagues and may clubs already blood younger players in the reserves. 

Get a footballer in with an iron rod and get rid of the suits and yes men....Really. That's asking for the FA to be disbanded and start again. Like FIFA, too many noses in troughs and no one is going to want to walk away willingly. How do you seriously propose doing this. Give someone like Klingsman (not even English so will he really have English interest at heart) or someone else an iron rod. What makes you think they will implement such radical plans at the end of the day. Until the FA and PL run the game under one umbrella nothing will change. As others have said we're too far down the line


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

Adi2Dassler said:



			The English footballing system is all wrong imo ( Scotland is even worse) 

Use Germany and Spain as counter points.Neither of these countries has a national stadium as such, let alone one that cost what, Â£900 Million or a St.Georges Park bring the cost for a ground and training base to over Â£1 Billion.They take the team around the country and for big games use their biggest ground.They engage with the regions.

They also don't have the division of FA and Premier league like England does.The Premier League doesn't care about international football, why would they when it's just another way for their workers to be injured.This is the biggets problem and it's too far gone to rectify.The gentrification, the desire to satisfy TV audiences for 'the best league in the world' lolz to raise billions in advertising and endorsements is unparalleled anywhere else in the football world.

So white elephant ego projects and division of church and state instead of using the facilities already there and creating regional schools of excellence, local canteras all playing the same way, feeding into clubs and onto the national team would work brilliantly in England, but the race for cash is all important.
		
Click to expand...


This.^^^

I reckon the associations (both up here and down there) should force the issue. The winner of the league can't enter the CL without FA permission, so use that as the stick to get teams in line. UEFA recognise the associations not the league. It wouldn't be easy but the status quo is bad for the game on this island and shouldn't be an option.

Wembley and Hampden, historic as they are, were huge wastes of money. Vanity projects harking back to when both countries had half decent teams. That cash should have been plowed into development.

I'd actually cut government and lottery funding (from association related areas) until they got their houses in order, deprivation of cash from these sources would be harmful if the governing bodies chose to ignore it, but would certainly focus their minds and hopefully get them away from dishing out huge prize money (England) which only goes into mediocre players pockets and get more cash funnelled into development.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Meanwhile....back in the real world. You said a minute ago make these teams start at the bottom and now you don't want them in the conference! There is already a successful U18 and U21 reserve/youth team leagues and may clubs already blood younger players in the reserves.
		
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Do you realise how many levels below the conference there are ? 

Where do you think teams like FC Wimbledon started and FC United ? 

The conference is the highest level of non league football - there are a great deal amount of levels below that 

And if you believe there are "successful" reserve and u21 leagues then you really don't know what is going on beyond the main squads - the reserve and younger level leagues are of a shocking standard 




			Get a footballer in with an iron rod and get rid of the suits and yes men....Really. That's asking for the FA to be disbanded and start again. Like FIFA, too many noses in troughs and no one is going to want to walk away willingly. How do you seriously propose doing this. Give someone like Klingsman (not even English so will he really have English interest at heart) or someone else an iron rod. What makes you think they will implement such radical plans at the end of the day. Until the FA and PL run the game under one umbrella nothing will change. As others have said we're too far down the line
		
Click to expand...

Do you get paid by the FA because you fly their flag very well - I know exactly how the FA runs and I know exactly how they only look after themselves 

The FA spend the whole time blaming the Prem for all the ills of the game they themselves have created - the easy option is to blame the prem league and the big clubs - it's nonsense - the FA need to look at themselves 

I suggest Klinsmann who has been at the heart of all that is good with German Football and now is doing the same thing with the USA and you dismiss him straight away because he is not even English ?!? That sums it up exactly - Hodgson is English and he is the worst man possible to be in charge of the English game alongside a businessman. Typical attitude of someone in the FA


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you realise how many levels below the conference there are ? 

Where do you think teams like FC Wimbledon started and FC United ? 

The conference is the highest level of non league football - there are a great deal amount of levels below that 

And if you believe there are "successful" reserve and u21 leagues then you really don't know what is going on beyond the main squads - the reserve and younger level leagues are of a shocking standard 



Do you get paid by the FA because you fly their flag very well - I know exactly how the FA runs and I know exactly how they only look after themselves 

The FA spend the whole time blaming the Prem for all the ills of the game they themselves have created - the easy option is to blame the prem league and the big clubs - it's nonsense - the FA need to look at themselves 

I suggest Klinsmann who has been at the heart of all that is good with German Football and now is doing the same thing with the USA and you dismiss him straight away because he is not even English ?!? That sums it up exactly - Hodgson is English and he is the worst man possible to be in charge of the English game alongside a businessman. Typical attitude of someone in the FA
		
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I've played non league and been involved with several non league clubs over the years so have a damn fine idea how the pyramid works. The question was you want these clubs to start at the bottom. Are you really expecting them to start conference or below? Thats not going to get anyone interested in playing

You know how the FA runs? Really. Are you on one of the committees? Again you're missing the point or more likely ignoring it as is your way with other threads. The point is the FA and PL may well blame each other but they aren't going away and util they work as a unified body there are too many vested interests to make the German blueprint viable. 

I dismissed Klingsmann as surely you'd need an English man to solve the problem. Will a German ever really have the good of English football at heart and would they really give him this rod of iron (whatever that is)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've played non league and been involved with several non league clubs over the years so have a damn fine idea how the pyramid works. The question was you want these clubs to start at the bottom. Are you really expecting them to start conference or below? Thats not going to get anyone interested in playing

You know how the FA runs? Really. Are you on one of the committees? Again you're missing the point or more likely ignoring it as is your way with other threads. The point is the FA and PL may well blame each other but they aren't going away and util they work as a unified body there are too many vested interests to make the German blueprint viable. 

I dismissed Klingsmann as surely you'd need an English man to solve the problem. Will a German ever really have the good of English football at heart and would they really give him this rod of iron (whatever that is)
		
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I didn't "want " anything if you actually read what I said "IF" the clubs wish to enter a B Team then they must start at the bottom. They can't take the place of other clubs who have earned the right to be in the respective leagues so just as any new team starts from the bottom then a B team starts from the bottom. 

The prem and FA don't need to work together !! The FA can sort out the national sides without the say so of the Prem - they can force the issue - they are the governing body of football in this country - they can sort out coaching out grass roots , they can fund the ability to get more UEFA coaches in the country , they can change the way the under 15 to under 21 national team works , they can sort out a strong reserve league - far too much resolving of the blame for the FA. You keep dismissing the ability to make changes - and one day the FA will wake up.

Why do you need an Englishman to sort out our football ? Are the English the only people who know what they are talking about ? Klinsmann seems to have zero issue helping out the states ! - people dismissing foreign managers is why we have Hodgson and why McClaren was given the job - Get someone in who knows what he is doing regardless of what he nationality


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I didn't "want " anything if you actually read what I said "IF" the clubs wish to enter a B Team then they must start at the bottom. They can't take the place of other clubs who have earned the right to be in the respective leagues so just as any new team starts from the bottom then a B team starts from the bottom. 

The prem and FA don't need to work together !! The FA can sort out the national sides without the say so of the Prem - they can force the issue - they are the governing body of football in this country - they can sort out coaching out grass roots , they can fund the ability to get more UEFA coaches in the country , they can change the way the under 15 to under 21 national team works , they can sort out a strong reserve league - far too much resolving of the blame for the FA. You keep dismissing the ability to make changes - and one day the FA will wake up.

Why do you need an Englishman to sort out our football ? Are the English the only people who know what they are talking about ? Klinsmann seems to have zero issue helping out the states ! - people dismissing foreign managers is why we have Hodgson and why McClaren was given the job - Get someone in who knows what he is doing regardless of what he nationality
		
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Maybe your on the Klingsmann payroll as he seems to be the only man for the job??

If you start a team in the lower echelon of the non league pyramid with the hope of attracting the bright young talent, what incentive is there for a Chelsea, Arsenal or anyone else to put their developing stars from their U18 or reserve sides to play Banstead Athletic. They have to be getting football of a realistic and competitive level or surely the plan will never work? I'm just interested to see how you can see any feasibility in that


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Maybe your on the Klingsmann payroll as he seems to be the only man for the job??

If you start a team in the lower echelon of the non league pyramid with the hope of attracting the bright young talent, what incentive is there for a Chelsea, Arsenal or anyone else to put their developing stars from their U18 or reserve sides to play Banstead Athletic. They have to be getting football of a realistic and competitive level or surely the plan will never work? I'm just interested to see how you can see any feasibility in that
		
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I don't see any feasibility in big clubs starting a second team hence why I don't like the idea hence why I said so from the start !!!!

And Klinsmann is just an idea - but he is the type of person we need -someone who is found because of their abilities and not their passport or the fact they are a yes man for the FA


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I don't see any feasibility in big clubs starting a second team hence why I don't like the idea hence why I said so from the start !!!!

And Klinsmann is just an idea - but he is the type of person we need -someone who is found because of their abilities and not their passport or the fact they are a yes man for the FA
		
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Hang on a mo! It was you arguing last night for this German blueprint which includes these feeder teams. And you were advocating the Spanish one where the likes of Barca and Real have teams playing in the lower divisions of La Liga. Thats a pretty darn big U turn


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

Anyway, back on topic. I fancy Argentina 2-1 after extra time tonight. The Dutch will make a game of it but I think the Argies will be a little bit too much for them. Mind you the Dutch will not half fancy a crack at the Germans to get their first world cup trophy. It could be another cracker. 

An Argentina Germany final for me, my tips from the start.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

Neither side fill me with defensive confidence and so we could get an open an attacking again.. unless those pesky Argies get the lead and start the play acting. I have a feeling Messi will come up with something special and I'm going Argentiana 2-1


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 9, 2014)

Chances on a bit of Wagnerian behaviour by the Dutch this evening?  van Persie had a go against Spain but we know that there is only one Flying Dutchman.

I'd rather like a Germany Netherlands final - 40 yrs after their previous meeting in the final.  Memories of me on Scout Summer Camp by a river just outside of Moffat sat on a log, watching it on a little portable B&W telly powered by a car battery.  We all wanted Netherlands to win.  But first tonight it's the replay of the 1978 ticker-tape final and the flowing locks of Mario Kempes.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 9, 2014)

Before the tournament 2 of my bets were:

Brazil to win it.
Argies top goal scorers.
Looks like both went out of the window last night


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			I think this is a given now. He'll be pickled.
		
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Ha ha..He was a bit hung over.Come good after 3 holes at Preston G.C...He's a top man..Even brought his Deutschland towel and put it on one of the chairs outside clubhouse..Everyone was in hysterics..Great day was had all round..


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Hang on a mo! It was you arguing last night for this German blueprint which includes these feeder teams. And you were advocating the Spanish one where the likes of Barca and Real have teams playing in the lower divisions of La Liga. Thats a pretty darn big U turn
		
Click to expand...


The only blueprint I have ever advocated is the way they deal with their national teams and ensuring the same tactics and formation is used throughout the age groups - not once have I ever advocated using the league blueprint of B Teams - and if you read my posts you would see that clear as day - no u turn has been made. You have argued against point that I never made and I have tried telling you that - if you need further clarification then please read back through my posts 


And back onto tonight 

Would really like to see a Messi master class - he has been on the edge of a special performance  and has the stage to destroy the Dutch


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Hope the Dutch smash the Argies..Bring it on.


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## cookelad (Jul 9, 2014)

Think Argentina will sneak through tonight I imagine it'll be closer than last nights match, think the Argies'll really want to rub salt in the Brazilian wounds!


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

Hope tonight's match can be half as good, or bad depending on your view of last nights..Game on in 15....


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

Eight nil to the Argies.........


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## Rumpokid (Jul 9, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Eight nil to the Argies.........

Click to expand...

Nah, up the Orangemen..


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## Imurg (Jul 9, 2014)

I reckon the European team will be 5-0 up inside half an hour, eventually turning over the South Americans by a record scoreline.....


Oh, hang on that was last night wasn't it...?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

All a bit cagey at the moment. Can see this going all the way to extra time and pens unless someone sorts it out. Not edge of the seat stuff is it


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

So the Dutch have used all three subs and heading to penalties. No Krul coming on so it makes the decision against Costa Rica even stranger. Surely if Krul is bigger and better you'd want him in goal. Said it was mad at the time and think the decision not to repeat shows it wasn't tactical genius and more a random and bizzare thing to do


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## Piece (Jul 9, 2014)

Dull and duller this game. Yawn. Zzzzzz.


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So the Dutch have used all three subs and heading to penalties. No Krul coming on so it makes the decision against Costa Rica even stranger. Surely if Krul is bigger and better you'd want him in goal. Said it was mad at the time and think the decision not to repeat shows it wasn't tactical genius and more a random and bizzare thing to do
		
Click to expand...

The words  a dog,bone,like, with, a spring to mind.  

Not the best of games but opening up a bit at last.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2014)

c1973 said:



			The words  a dog,bone,like, with, a spring to mind.  

Not the best of games but opening up a bit at last.
		
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More interesting debate than watching the footie at the moment


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			More interesting debate than watching the footie at the moment
		
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True. Looking like penalties now.


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## c1973 (Jul 9, 2014)

I blame Van Gaal, he should have had Krul subbed on for the shoot out. 

Woohoo, Argentina Germany final......as predicted by moi. I'll be at the bookies on Monday morning for me winnings.


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## Foxholer (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So the Dutch have used all three subs and heading to penalties. No Krul coming on so it makes the decision against Costa Rica even stranger. Surely if Krul is bigger and better you'd want him in goal. Said it was mad at the time and think the decision not to repeat shows it wasn't tactical genius and more a random and bizzare thing to do
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you should drop a note to the ManU Board and suggest that you are a much better manager than van Gaal!

I'm sure you'd get an appropriate reaction!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So the Dutch have used all three subs and heading to penalties. No Krul coming on so it makes the decision against Costa Rica even stranger. Surely if Krul is bigger and better you'd want him in goal. Said it was mad at the time and think the decision not to repeat shows it wasn't tactical genius and more a random and bizzare thing to do
		
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Maybe he should have saved a sub because we saw why the normal keeper hasn't saved a penalty in his whole pro career


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## Fish (Jul 10, 2014)

Stories being released that LVG asked 2 players to take the 1st penalty and they refused, so fair play to Ron Vlaar for stepping up and not, as he's stated in the press, 'walked away from his responsibilities'.  LVG states its critical to score the 1st goal and was disappointed 2 players that he felt could do that, didn't want to!


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe he should have saved a sub because we saw why the normal keeper hasn't saved a penalty in his whole pro career
		
Click to expand...

He wanted to but the defender (martins indi) was in danger of getting sent off, de Jong was crocked and RVP exhausted and shouldn't reAlly have played.

Not unusual for stories to circulate about players bottling it in pens.
You should go with those that want it but to me both Vaar and snedjer looked like they were going to miss.


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## richy (Jul 10, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			He wanted to but the defender (martins indi) was in danger of getting sent off, de Jong was crocked and *RVP exhausted and shouldn't reAlly have played*.

Not unusual for stories to circulate about players bottling it in pens.
You should go with those that want it but to me both Vaar and snedjer looked like they were going to miss.
		
Click to expand...

You're right he shouldn't have, he made Fred look good after last nights performance


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 10, 2014)

richy said:



			You're right he shouldn't have, he made Fred look good after last nights performance
		
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Steady on!!! 

It was like the dad who's the manager and won't leave his lad out of the team.......


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 10, 2014)

It only goes to prove that to a large degree it's academic what or who the keeper is (and therefore the need to sub one ofr another) if the other players can't score. Seems strange that two Dutch players apparently didn't want to take them and left the first guy in a big old lurch. He never looked like scoring and then they were always on the back foot. 

Argentina will have to show a lot more intent against the Germans or it could be awfully one sided


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe he should have saved a sub because we saw why the normal keeper hasn't saved a penalty in his whole pro career
		
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That was my thinking.  So new management tactic for critical games where a shoot out is possible - have a specialist penalty kick goalkeeper.  Sorry to say that the Dutch lad looked pretty hopeless on pens - he had a good chance to save two of them.


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## Dodger (Jul 10, 2014)

Glad to see the Dutch go out.

Awful game last night.

Kommen Sie Deutschland!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It only goes to prove that to a large degree it's academic what or who the keeper is (and therefore the need to sub one ofr another) if the other players can't score. Seems strange that two Dutch players apparently didn't want to take them and left the first guy in a big old lurch. He never looked like scoring and then they were always on the back foot. 

Argentina will have to show a lot more intent against the Germans or it could be awfully one sided
		
Click to expand...

Still trying to gnaw that bone 

After last night it's pretty clear to see why Van Gaal subbed his keeper as he was pretty awful and Krul would have certainly filled the goal better and if Van Gaal could have saved a sub I'm betting he would have.

If you have a keeper you know hasn't saved a penalty in his entire career then the pressure is added - if you have a keeper who you know has just won the previous shootout for you then the confidence increases a little.

The first penalty was poor the other was a great save

But Dutch keeper got nowhere near any maybe bar the last.

It just enforces how correct Van Gaals choices was in the previous game.

The final has potential to be a cracker because Germany will look to play and so will Argentina


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 10, 2014)

Will you two either get a room or give it a rest?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2014)

Fish said:



			Stories being released that LVG asked 2 players to take the 1st penalty and they refused, so fair play to Ron Vlaar for stepping up and not, as he's stated in the press, 'walked away from his responsibilities'.  LVG states its critical to score the 1st goal and was disappointed 2 players that he felt could do that, didn't want to!
		
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Wonder who the two players where ?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2014)

Fish said:



			Stories being released that LVG asked 2 players to take the 1st penalty and they refused, so fair play to Ron Vlaar for stepping up and not, as he's stated in the press, 'walked away from his responsibilities'.  LVG states its critical to score the 1st goal and was disappointed 2 players that he felt could do that, didn't want to!
		
Click to expand...

Thiago Silva asked to be the last player to take a penalty for Brazil,poor from the Captain.


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## freddielong (Jul 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wonder who the two players where ?
		
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I heard it was Wesley and Robben but only from twitter no other names even mentioned though


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 10, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I heard it was Wesley and Robben but only from twitter no other names even mentioned though
		
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Find that hard to believe.


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## Fish (Jul 10, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Find that hard to believe.
		
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I don't, I've seen photo's where he (LVG) was speaking to both Robben & Vlaar at the same time, LVG then puts his hands on both cheeks of Vlaar in a way of appreciation, I would bet at that time, Robben said no.

He bottled it


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2014)

Fish said:



			I don't, I've seen photo's where he (LVG) was speaking to both Robben & Vlaar at the same time, LVG then puts his hands on both cheeks of Vlaar in a way of appreciation, I would bet at that time, Robben said no.

He bottled it
		
Click to expand...

Yep I can it being those two - certainly wouldn't have been Kuyt ( the other senior player in the team )


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## freddielong (Jul 10, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep I can it being those two - certainly wouldn't have been Kuyt ( the other senior player in the team )
		
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I agree Kuyt would have stepped up if asked


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 10, 2014)

Can definitely see Robben bottling it big time


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## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 10, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I agree Kuyt would have stepped up if asked
		
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Trouble is he would probably have missed.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 10, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Trouble is he would probably have missed.
		
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Kuyt ? That Man has taken multiple amount of important penalties for both his club and country and missed just one for us 

If I was to pick one person to take a pen it would be him


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## c1973 (Jul 10, 2014)

It's a poor show if guys like Robben did refuse to take one, if you're not confident though what do you do. Personally I'd like to think I'd be stepping up given the chance. Nothing to fear imo. Hit it well and you really shouldn't be missing them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 10, 2014)

Robben should have been taking one but to send a central defender in Vlaar up first seemed a weird choice. Looked like the proverbial rabbit in the headlight


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28257955

Neymar claiming that he could have been paralysed and in a wheel chair from the challenge ?! 

Bold claims


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## Fish (Jul 11, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28257955

Neymar claiming that he could have been paralysed and in a wheel chair from the challenge ?! 

Bold claims
		
Click to expand...

I don't think there was any malice in the challenge, its a contact sport, he jumped whilst running forward and his legs were raised and bent so the knee went into the back of him, its a consequence of the sport, an unfortunate accident and just a poor challenge, IMO.

The referee lost control of the match well before that challenge, maybe if he'd had a grip of the match from the start, some later challenges may not have been attempted?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 11, 2014)

Fish said:



			I don't think there was any malice in the challenge, its a contact sport, he jumped whilst running forward and his legs were raised and bent so the knee went into the back of him, its a consequence of the sport, an unfortunate accident and just a poor challenge, IMO.

The referee lost control of the match well before that challenge, maybe if he'd had a grip of the match from the start, some later challenges may not have been attempted?
		
Click to expand...


Yep spot on - Brazil only have themselves to blame when you look at the way they treated Rodriguez - he was kicked all over the park by them


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 11, 2014)

Fish said:



			I don't think there was any malice in the challenge, its a contact sport, he jumped whilst running forward and his legs were raised and bent so the knee went into the back of him, its a consequence of the sport, an unfortunate accident and just a poor challenge, IMO.

The referee lost control of the match well before that challenge, maybe if he'd had a grip of the match from the start, some later challenges may not have been attempted?
		
Click to expand...

Some rather sensationalist words and reactions by Neymar. Yes it was a poor challenge but I didn't see it as a deliberate attempt to injure him at the time and more a clash of two players going for the ball.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 11, 2014)

The injury could have had more serious outcome - but that injury came about due to a combination of the challenge and Neymar's body position - not simply the challenge.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 11, 2014)

anything to distract the fact that Brazil aren't in final and argentina are.


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## Fish (Jul 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Some rather sensationalist words and reactions by Neymar. Yes it was a poor challenge but I didn't see it as a deliberate attempt to injure him at the time and more a clash of two players going for the ball.
		
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This became quite a heated debate last night where someone sat at my table at my away match was insisting that he fully understood what he was doing and attempted to '_take him out_' of the match/game!  I disagreed and all I got back was '_have you played the game, well you don't know what your on about then_'!  I said your entitled to your opinion, even pundits disagree and they've all played the game at a high level but he was having none of it, raising his voice and trying to force his opinion on me and the table. I was close on walking away and out at one point during dinner, he was such a loud mouth knob and put a downer on my decent day!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2014)

Fish said:



			This became quite a heated debate last night where someone sat at my table at my away match was insisting that he fully understood what he was doing and attempted to '_take him out_' of the match/game!  I disagreed and all I got back was '_have you played the game, well you don't know what your on about then_'!  I said your entitled to your opinion, even pundits disagree and they've all played the game at a high level but he was having none of it, raising his voice and trying to force his opinion on me and the table. I was close on walking away and out at one point during dinner, he was such a loud mouth knob and put a downer on my decent day!
		
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Sad to hear that. Some people just keep repeating a point in the blind faith that eventually everyone will come around to that opinion. I suggest the guy may have had a drink, so put it down to that


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## Imurg (Jul 12, 2014)

Why do they bother with the 3rd place playoff...?

It's the most pointless fixture imaginable - neither team wants to be there and even then fans probably don't care if they come 3rd or 4th
I'm sure there will be much jubilation at the final whistle - Not!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

That should have been a red but possibly just a free kick


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

What a great assist from Luiz !!


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## Imurg (Jul 12, 2014)

Here we go again.......

PSG must be having kittens thinking about Luiz.........how bad can he get?


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## Fish (Jul 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That should have been a red but possibly just a free kick
		
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Irrelevant of where the 1st offence took place it was a red card, just because he's given a penalty or its early in the game should carry no weight, the rules are the rules! 

2 now anyway, going to get at least 3 or 4 :rofl:


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## Fish (Jul 12, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Here we go again.......

PSG must be having kittens thinking about Luiz.........how bad can he get?
		
Click to expand...

We've cashed the cheque and ran


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2014)

Brazil look just as fragile. You'd have thought they'd have gone all out to restore some pride. They look as bad as the German game. Should have been a red card, but do you think a ref will give it, in Brazil so early in a game. Penalty seemed the easy cop out and not follow the letter of the law


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

Fish said:



			Irrelevant of where the 1st offence took place it was a red card, just because he's given a penalty or its early in the game should carry no weight, the rules are the rules! 

2 now anyway, going to get at least 3 or 4 :rofl:
		
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Oh it was definitely a red card but thought the foul happened outside the box and Robben fell inside ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2014)

3-0 Oh dear


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2014)

Great stat. Since the current WC format only 3 teams have conceded 12 or more goals in one tournament. Saudi Arabia, South Korea and Brazil


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Taxi for Scolari after last night?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Great stat. Since the current WC format only 3 teams have conceded 12 or more goals in one tournament. Saudi Arabia, South Korea and Brazil
		
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Crazy. Plus home nation & pre tournament favourites.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2014)

Who will you be supporting tonight?


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## Piece (Jul 13, 2014)

Fancy Germany to win 2-1.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Fancy Germany 2-1 as well


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 13, 2014)

Not supporting anyone as such other than I've said Argentina from
The start and backed them so a Messi wonder show would be good!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Good open start to the game


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Germany being without Khederia is a big blow - a lot rest on Schweinstiger holding. 

Argentina are starting to liven up


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2014)

My god how bad is that tit Lawrenson?


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## NWJocko (Jul 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			My god how bad is that tit Lawrenson?
		
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Horrendous. Mans a fud.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Good game so far 

A bit too much rolling about from some players - Muller and Lavezzi the worst


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Horrendous. Mans a fud.
		
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Makes me laugh - comes up with some crackers at times


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Watching ITV for the commentary as I don't like Lawrenson but watching the BBC for the pundits as I don't like the ITV ones. Kind of a lose lose really


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Makes me laugh - comes up with some crackers at times
		
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You must have an odd sense of humour. 

He is a car crash.


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## Piece (Jul 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			You must have an odd sense of humour. 

He is a car crash.
		
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Lawro - type of smug bloke who always has the last word and thinks he's always right.


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## Fish (Jul 13, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Watching ITV for the commentary as I don't like Lawrenson but watching the BBC for the pundits as I don't like the ITV ones. Kind of a lose lose really
		
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I'm totally the opposite, can't stand Rio.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 13, 2014)

https://vine.co/v/MFLOetZKgEt
Classic Lawrenson


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Fish said:



			I'm totally the opposite, can't stand Rio.
		
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Ferdinand is awful ! Sounds like a dunce


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Piece said:



			type of smug bloke who always has the last word and thinks he's always right.
		
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Sounds kind of familiar on here with some folk


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2014)

Piece said:



			Lawro - type of smug bloke who always has the last word and thinks he's always right.
		
Click to expand...

Spat water all over the keyboard there.

Cracker!


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			My god how bad is that tit Lawrenson?
		
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Started watching on BBC but had to switch over to get rid of him!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

How the hell is that a free kick against Higuain ?!?


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2014)

Schumacher!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Schumacher!
		
Click to expand...

That was worse. Six studs showing at throat height. Thought the keeper had every right to go for that then


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## Imurg (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How the hell is that a free kick against Higuain ?!?
		
Click to expand...

That's what HID said and she knows Jack about footy.........


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How the hell is that a free kick against Higuain ?!?
		
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I'd be interested in refs full explanation of dangerous play against higuain


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)




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## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2014)

If it goes to penalties, don't let Ozil anywhere near it.


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## rickg (Jul 13, 2014)

I think North Korea will beat Portugal on penalties............

http://www.thesportbible.com/articles/north-korea-close-to-winning-the-world-cup

:rofl:


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## richy (Jul 13, 2014)

Anyone else wonder why messi is Argentinas captain? I know he's their best player by a mile but does that really mean he should be captain?

He didn't even look interested durin the team talk before extra time and even walked away. Took someone else to get the team up


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

rickg said:



			I think North Korea will beat Portugal on penalties............

http://www.thesportbible.com/articles/north-korea-close-to-winning-the-world-cup

:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

:rofl:

Brilliant 

The celebrations when they win will be epic


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

No doubt they'll win the next one too


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Mascherano has been brilliant in this World Cup - he won't get player of the tournament but for me he has been as good as anyone 

He is one player I would take back to ours in a flash - what a player


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## rickg (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

Brilliant 

The celebrations when they win will be epic
		
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My guess is that Kim Jong-un will take and score all 5 penalties, whilst donning the keepers gloves to save all 5 Portugal penalties..........


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 13, 2014)

Scheinstiger not been bad either.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 13, 2014)

What's up with Aguero? He's been rubbish every time I've seen him this World Cup....


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

rickg said:



			My guess is that Kim Jong-un will take and score all 5 penalties, whilst donning the keepers gloves to save all 5 Portugal penalties..........
		
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Is that after playing golf and recording a hole in one on every hole


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			What's up with Aguero? He's been rubbish every time I've seen him this World Cup....
		
Click to expand...


Not fit - nowhere near being fit


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			Scheinstiger not been bad either.
		
Click to expand...

I was just looking up how to spell Schweinsteiger when you posted that.

By far the best player of the tournament. IMVHO.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

I find it scary that in this day and age a whole nation can be so dictated to in such a way and have no real contact with the real world.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			Scheinstiger not been bad either.
		
Click to expand...


Yeah has improved as each game has gone out despite missing some early games


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

That's shocking from Aguero


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 13, 2014)

Mmm another missed red......


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## richy (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not fit - nowhere near being fit
		
Click to expand...

Should of been a second yellow if not a red there


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Referee bottled it again. That was savage


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## Imurg (Jul 13, 2014)

There's going to be a lot of red cards in the first few weeks of the season of some of these players keep doing in the Premier League what they're doing in this World Cup..?...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

richy said:



			Should of been a second yellow if not a red there
		
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Straight red - looked a punch


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

What a cracking finish !!


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## Piece (Jul 13, 2014)

That's a tidy finish!


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## richy (Jul 13, 2014)

Beckhams kids will be crying into their Argentina shirts now


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

richy said:



			Beckhams kids will be crying into their Argentina shirts now
		
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Surely that's child cruelty


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

richy said:



			Beckhams kids will be crying into their Argentina shirts now
		
Click to expand...


What's that's about ?


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## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2014)

That was a cracking finish from the German kid.


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2014)

Neuer is simply the best keeper in the world by a county mile.

Fantastic Keeper.


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## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Neuer is simply the best keeper in the world by a county mile.

Fantastic Keeper.
		
Click to expand...

No argument from here.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Neuer is simply the best keeper in the world by a county mile.

Fantastic Keeper.
		
Click to expand...

Without doubt


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## richy (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What's that's about ?
		
Click to expand...

His kids were in the crowd wearing Argentina shirts


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

That's a poor choice from Messi 

Games over 

Think it's right that Germany win - best team in the tournament


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 13, 2014)

That's a shocking waste of a free kick but I suspect there's a wry Portuguese smile in Madrid!


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 13, 2014)

richy said:



			His kids were in the crowd wearing Argentina shirts
		
Click to expand...

With Simone on the back?


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## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2014)

I had Germany from the off. Why didn't I put any cash on down the bookies? Idiot.


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## Dodger (Jul 13, 2014)

Superb for Germany.

Best team in the world won.

Remember the last time we played the World Champions?

Bring on September....I cannot wait for my trip to Dortmund now.:lol:


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 13, 2014)

Dodger said:



			Superb for Germany.

Best team in the world won.

Remember the last time we played the World Champions?
		
Click to expand...


:ears: 





:rofl:


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## Piece (Jul 13, 2014)

No complaints here as the best team won, with the emphasis on team not individuals.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 13, 2014)

Uber Alles!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Piece said:



			No complaints here as the best team won, with the emphasis on team not individuals.
		
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Yep - a team of quality but no real superstars you would say. A team built over the last 6 years


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## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep - a team of quality but no real superstars you would say. A team built over the last 6 years
		
Click to expand...

You could argue that it is packed with super stars. I would.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Plenty of stars there. Most clubs would want most of them


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

The German lads seemed to have snagged themselves some very attractive young ladies


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## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			You could argue that it is packed with super stars. I would.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with you murph.

Lahm, Neuer, Schweinstieger,khedira,Muller etc they're a world class side.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Messi best player ?!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Messi best player ?!
		
Click to expand...

Voted for by Adidas.....


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Messi best player ?!
		
Click to expand...

Very strange. Arguably not even Argentina's best player......


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## Piece (Jul 13, 2014)

Messi wins best player of tourno? As chosen by Adidas, whose golden boy is, errr.....


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Messi best player ?!
		
Click to expand...

Nope. Very disappointing today. Not been a great tournament for him really. Flashes of excellence and long spells of anonimity


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 13, 2014)

I see Frau Merkel is loving it, and unlike our politicians it is totally genuine, good luck to her.


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## Piece (Jul 13, 2014)

Best World Cup I can remember.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 13, 2014)

Piece said:



			Best World Cup I can remember.
		
Click to expand...


Not for me....


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 14, 2014)

I enjoyed it..........Â£75 better off


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## Fish (Jul 14, 2014)

Piece said:



			Best World Cup I can remember.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, some great performances from some of the so-called lesser countries which were deemed to be just whipping boys in their respected groups along with some real nuggets unveiled. Some goal-less matches which HID still enjoyed and that alone speaks volumes, she watched all the games with me, a real first. Some early exits from well backed and fancied countries made for  very good tournament.

Now for The Open where a European will win  :thup:


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## PhilTheFragger (Jul 14, 2014)

Heartbreaking to see all those sobbing argies .........not 

Thought it was a great tournament, some really great matches, lots of good goals as well as loads of talking points.
Shame England couldn't have gone further, but there is always the Euros in 2 years time .

I live in hope &#128526;


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## Slab (Jul 14, 2014)

So who do you fancy for Russia 2018?


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Heartbreaking to see all those sobbing argies .........not 

Thought it was a great tournament, some really great matches, lots of good goals as well as loads of talking points.
Shame England couldn't have gone further, but there is always the Euros in 2 years time .

I live in hope &#62990;
		
Click to expand...

I think the fact England didn't go further made it better for me.  As you can then concentrate on enjoying the football without all the media noise about England.  In some way I'd rather them not make it, rather than show up and just embarrass themselves on the world stage and stink the place out. So here's to them not qualifying for Russia to make that one even better


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2014)

Slab said:



			So who do you fancy for Russia 2018?
		
Click to expand...

Germany.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Messi best player ?!
		
Click to expand...

It's the world cup and FIFA/sponsors are involved, so they had to get a decision in there that was either corrupt or motivated purely by financial greed instead of the good of the game. As that's how they roll.....

Should have been Neuer as he was immense, you could see how the Argies just crumbled in front of him. Plus he read the game better than a lot of defenders (hello Cahill and Jageilka) and took care of business when the ball came anywhere near his goal. 

Or Schweinsteiger as he bossed most games he was in, including the final when it counted.  I was amazed at how lazy Messi was in the final, at times he could not be bothered to run 5 yards to challenge a German and just stood there watching as they walked past him.


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 14, 2014)

Piece said:



			Best World Cup I can remember.
		
Click to expand...

Seems to be a common view, lots of media comments about how good it's been.

For some reason I missed most of the group matches but saw most of the knockout games. I thought, with a couple of exceptions, that it was pretty turgid stuff.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 14, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Seems to be a common view, lots of media comments about how good it's been.

For some reason I missed most of the group matches but saw most of the knockout games. I thought, with a couple of exceptions, that it was pretty turgid stuff.
		
Click to expand...

That's because a lot (but not all as there were some crackers there) of the knockout games were boring compared to the group games.  I think some of it was possibly down to the fact that in the group games you tended to get the underdogs shutting up shop a bit and the supposed favorites had trouble breaking them down. Where as in the group games most teams went for it.

To be honest I can't remember that much from previous world cups, but I think there have been more exciting stand out games in this one than previous ones.


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## Dodger (Jul 14, 2014)

Argentina scored 2 goals in their 4 games after the group stage, and didn't have shot on target in 120 minutes of the final and barely more than 1 in the 120 minutes of the semi-final.

They would have been the worst winners ever.


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## Fish (Jul 14, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			I was amazed at how lazy Messi was in the final, at times he could not be bothered to run 5 yards to challenge a German and just stood there watching as they walked past him.
		
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and sometimes less than that distance! 

Static so many times, he just watched players step inside him when he could have been the first defender getting a tackle in or simply pressing them to pass or go back, he didn't seem focused or bothered a lot of time, just a few spurts and then back to his pedestrian style, very poor and not deserving of any award or plaudits on what was the biggest world stage for him.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

Just how many 0-0 games were there in the KO stages ?
Seemed to me like far too many games went to ET or penalties.

Poor forwards or great defenders ?
The goalies were very good.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2014)

Folk only tend to remember the most recent of events... 
Just look at any top 100 list of anything...
Poor world cup for me... Final was almost a non-event....

Also anyone who rated Messi as the best of all time let alone the current best will have to be re-thinking their arguments...
Did he 'shine' in any game this WC?


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## User62651 (Jul 14, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			I see Frau Merkel is loving it, and unlike our politicians it is totally genuine, good luck to her.
		
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I agree, like the way she goes about her business, no nonsense, just quiet assuredness and looks genuinely thrilled for the team and her country rather than self promotion.


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## IanG (Jul 14, 2014)

OK radical idea to spice up the next World Cup's last two matches. Currently the 3rd/4th place play-off is unloved by all and dull as ditchwater and the final itself is contested between two teams terrified to lose a goal. So new rules are 

1. 3rd/4th place play-off takes place as now but  lasts only 90 mins,  a draw is allowed. No extra time, no penalties. The game is made meaningful by...

2. If, in the Final, neither team manages to score in the first 90 mins (yawn) , the World Cup is awarded to the team who WON the 3rd 4th place playoff match by scoring at least one goal. If there was no winner there (i.e. a draw) we revert to current position. If the final is 1-1 or 2-2 etc after 90 mins we revert to extra time and penalties. 

Both these measures would add a positive incentive to all 4 teams to play more aggressively which would be better for the game. 

It'll never happen but perhaps is should...... :lol:


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## Piece (Jul 14, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			Not for me....
		
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The two WCs I rate are 1982 in Spain and 2002 in South Korea/Japan.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2014)

Piece said:



			The two WCs I rate are 1982 in Spain and 2002 in South Korea/Japan.
		
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Setting aside '66 my top two would be 1970 [Mexico] and 1982 [Spain]...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2014)

90 and 2002 have been my best two WC


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## Dodger (Jul 14, 2014)

I don't recall watching much of 2002 due to the silly kick off times for us.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 14, 2014)

I liked 1974......Scotland in the finals and unbeaten.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 14, 2014)

Watched quite a lot of this WC - certainly a lot lot more than the previous one - when I couldn't watch games for the racket of the ruddy vuvuzelas.  This was was good and enjoyable to watch.

Just in case you'd forgotten

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKCIFXqhLzo


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2014)

1990 for me. England getting to the semi finals. In the pub most nights with my mates and in my mid 20's so had everything to look forward to. Happy times indeed


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## chrisd (Jul 14, 2014)

I quite enjoyed 1966!


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## Crazyface (Jul 15, 2014)

My last WC. Far too much diving and feining injury. What a bunch of girls. In fact, I will be doing my best to never watch any football ever again. It's all false. One ref can not possibly see everything that is going on anymore. There should be four linesmen and two refs on the pitch one for each half of the pitch. A quick conference between them all, like NFL, to sort out any decisions, diving etc, and proper punishment for such acts will get me back watching. But it's not going to happen. 

Just glad Man City have got all the money they'll ever need now to stay at the top. I hope they do. Everyone who moans about it, probably have contributed to the state of our game as it is by buying Sky. It makes me laugh how they go on about how it's wrong that City have bought the title. Just how much dosh have other teams paid out to do the same. Get lost and die !!!! (Is that sanitary enough mods?)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			My last WC. Far too much diving and feining injury. What a bunch of girls. In fact, I will be doing my best to never watch any football ever again. It's all false. One ref can not possibly see everything that is going on anymore. There should be four linesmen and two refs on the pitch one for each half of the pitch. A quick conference between them all, like NFL, to sort out any decisions, diving etc, and proper punishment for such acts will get me back watching. But it's not going to happen. 

Just glad Man City have got all the money they'll ever need now to stay at the top. I hope they do. Everyone who moans about it, probably have contributed to the state of our game as it is by buying Sky. It makes me laugh how they go on about how it's wrong that City have bought the title. Just how much dosh have other teams paid out to do the same. Get lost and die !!!! (Is that sanitary enough mods?)
		
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Comparing WC and EPL - in WC 

Less diving
Less aggression towards others off the ball
Less hassling and aggression towards refs
Less feigning injury
Less trying to get other players booked (mimicking waving of yellow cards etc)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

Crazyface said:



			My last WC. Far too much diving and feining injury. What a bunch of girls. In fact, I will be doing my best to never watch any football ever again. It's all false. One ref can not possibly see everything that is going on anymore. There should be four linesmen and two refs on the pitch one for each half of the pitch. A quick conference between them all, like NFL, to sort out any decisions, diving etc, and proper punishment for such acts will get me back watching. But it's not going to happen. 

Just glad Man City have got all the money they'll ever need now to stay at the top. I hope they do. Everyone who moans about it, probably have contributed to the state of our game as it is by buying Sky. It makes me laugh how they go on about how it's wrong that City have bought the title. Just how much dosh have other teams paid out to do the same. Get lost and die !!!! (Is that sanitary enough mods?)
		
Click to expand...

The difference is most other clubs that have spent the money have earned the money as opposed to it be handed out by billionare 

You appear to hate the state of football yet also condone one of the main reasons it is like it is.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 15, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I quite enjoyed 1966!
		
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Didn't we all :thup:...

Aside from the final [in glorious black and white] I don't remember too much of any of the other matches... Not even sure they would have all been broadcast live... Dad took us to White City for one match Uruguay Vs France iirc....


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