# Fair Play?



## JARS (Sep 20, 2015)

Just watching the contraversy in the Solheim Cup. At what point do we waiver the rules for the sake of fair play and the spirit of the game?


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

If you play to the rules then you play fair....


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 20, 2015)

Imurg said:



			If you play to the rules then you play fair....
		
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This, ^^ As people have a different sense of fair play, on here some state they never concede, some 12" inches, some 18",


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## louise_a (Sep 20, 2015)

All square on the 17th I would only concede a tap in and that was longer than a tap in, I would probably have conceded it early on in the round but not at the death.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Never.


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## Oddsocks (Sep 20, 2015)

Anyone got a link


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## chellie (Sep 20, 2015)

Oddsocks said:



			Anyone got a link
		
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http://www.golfchannel.com/media/co...witter-gc-v-controversy-17-solheim-cup-092015


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## adam6177 (Sep 20, 2015)

The European girls walked off as soon as the USA missed their putt..... you don't walk off if you're still expecting the opponent (s) to putt out.

IMO that was bad form from Europe and I'd be pretty miffed .


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Never.
		
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so an opponent putts up to 2" from the hole for a win and immediately picks up for the half and you would call him/her on it and claim the hole?

theres rules and theres rules. Whats the saying about for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men?


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			so an opponent putts up to 2" from the hole for a win and immediately picks up for the half and you would call him/her on it and claim the hole?

theres rules and theres rules. Whats the saying about for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men?
		
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Damn right I would. 

Their etiquette in that case would be non-existent!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			The European girls walked off as soon as the USA missed their putt..... you don't walk off if you're still expecting the opponent (s) to putt out.

IMO that was bad form from Europe and I'd be pretty miffed .
		
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They didn't walk off - Hull was still on the green walking towards Petterson 

The putt wasn't conceded in any way shape or form 

You either putt out or wait for verbal or visual confirmation that the putt is given 

The Europeans have followed the rules - nothing more they can do


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



*Damn right I would. *

Their etiquette in that case would be non-existent!
		
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how sad when its clearly a game.

Maybe watch Jack Nicklaus's concession to Tony Jacklin to half the Ryder Cup.


I hope I never play with you or anyone with your values.


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They didn't walk off - Hull was still on the green walking towards Petterson 

The putt wasn't conceded in any way shape or form 

You either putt out or wait for verbal or visual confirmation that the putt is given 

*The Europeans have followed the rules - nothing more they can do*

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They have followed the rules and I dont believe thats in dispute now.

I would argue your point that there was nothing more they could do, they could have used common sense and fair play with a helping of the spirit of the game and made a wonderful gesture, and still win the Trophy.

Now any win will be slightly tarnished and that's a real shame.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			They have followed the rules and I dont believe thats in dispute now.

I would argue your point that there was nothing more they could do, they could have used common sense and fair play with a helping of the spirit of the game and made a wonderful gesture, and still win the Trophy.

Now any win will be slightly tarnished and that's a real shame.
		
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No tarnish at all - the spirit of the game also includes honesty and playing within the rules

The player was warned a number of times and also warned by her PP.


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



*No tarnish at all *- the spirit of the game also includes honesty and playing within the rules

The player was warned a number of times and also warned by her PP.
		
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and yet this forum thread will go on and on, and social media is in meltdown over it. Yes, no tarnish at all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			and yet this forum thread will go on and on, and social media is in meltdown over it. Yes, no tarnish at all.
		
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Meltdown ? Twitter has a few things on it as does Facebook but meltdown is a bit over the top maybe ?


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			how sad when its clearly a game.

Maybe watch Jack Nicklaus's concession to Tony Jacklin to half the Ryder Cup.


I hope I never play with you or anyone with your values.
		
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Did I say I wouldn't concede the putt? 

You're being quite frankly ridiculous because you can't see that assuming a concession to the point where you pick up is infinitely worse sportsmanship than asking someone to make a putt.


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Absolute garbage from the European team.
If a mate had done that to me in a friendly, I'd have been bloody annoyed.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Absolute garbage from the European team.
If a mate had done that to me in a friendly, I'd have been bloody annoyed.
		
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I'd be annoyed at myself too for picking up the ball...


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			I'd be annoyed at myself too for picking up the ball...
		
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As far as I am concerned, if my opponent has turned their back on me and is walking away, as Hull did, then I would consider it given.
I can see your point, but it's not in the spirit of the game.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			As far as I am concerned, if my playing partner has turned their back on me and is walking away, as Hull did, then I would consider it given.
I can see your point, but it's not in the spirit of the game.
		
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Thankfully we have rules to follow in such an instance.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			As far as I am concerned, if my opponent has turned their back on me and is walking away, as Hull did, then I would consider it given.
I can see your point, but it's not in the spirit of the game.
		
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Hull was walking towards Petterson and was still on the green - not sure when walking away was considered given - I only consider a putt given when my opponent either says so or gestures that it is given - anything else and I'll putt out


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Thankfully we have rules to follow in such an instance.
		
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Yes we do.
But it was bad form.


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hull was walking towards Petterson and was still on the green - not sure when walking away was considered given - I only consider a putt given when my opponent either says so or gestures that it is given - anything else and I'll putt out
		
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For arguments sake Phil, let's just say Hull was going to the Burger van.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Yes we do.
But it was bad form.
		
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Yes it was bad form of Lee to assume the concession. Something she had been warned about twice yesterday.


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Yes it was bad form of Lee to assume the concession.
		
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Yes, so you keep saying.


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## Imurg (Sep 20, 2015)

You see, I'd always wait for the words.
I wouldn't assume that because someone is walking away that the putt was conceded.
Look at the footage
Charley and the rest are moving away, no doubt about that. But they could just as easily be moving away from the eyeline of the next putt.

Anyway, its another reason I hate Matchplay.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			For arguments sake Phil, let's just say Hull was going to the Burger van.
		
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Then would look to her partner and see what she says .


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then would look to her partner and see what she says .
		
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"Cheese and fried onions on mine."


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

At the end of the day, I would have said something along the lines of "I'll see that in" to make sure there was no doubt.
Now the stock answer is going to be "she didn't have to say anything, the Yank shouldn't assume".
But I still think it's wrong that Hull, wherever she was going, turned her back on the player.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			At the end of the day, I would have said something along the lines of "I'll see that in" to make sure there was no doubt.
Now the stock answer is going to be "she didn't have to say anything, the Yank shouldn't assume".
But I still think it's wrong that Hull, wherever she was going, turned her back on the player.
		
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The whole situation would have been nullified with a quick "is that ok" 

Then the US player would have been in no doubt


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Hull was inexperienced and naive to walk as she did. 

Lee was the same to pick up the ball. One was a lapse in concentration, one was a rule breach. Cut and dry.


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## The Green Fairy (Sep 20, 2015)

There may have been a bit of tit for tat here.

This comment was under that video link.

_"USA Captain Bradley said they "have only the greatest respect for the rules of the game" and that they "followed the rules as written" after forcing Annika Sorestam to retake the chip she holed in 2000."

_My missus also has a long memory - it's in their genes.


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## ruff-driver (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			"Cheese and fried onions on mine."
		
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:clap:


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## Robobum (Sep 20, 2015)

Thats really poor. Call Charlie hull naive if you want but she is an experienced enough pro to know that her walk off meant a concession. No doubt.

Not good at all


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Thats really poor. Call Charlie hull naive if you want but she is an experienced enough pro to know that her walk off meant a concession. No doubt.

Not good at all
		
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So she lied to the match ref?


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			So she lied to the match ref?
		
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I guess it depends on what she was told to say


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I guess it depends on what she was told to say
		
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We are getting very close to throwing accusations towards a young girl here. 

Don't think it's right at all and maybe we should take the players words at face value


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## tsped83 (Sep 20, 2015)

If you walk away like the Europeans clearly did, you've conceded. Simple as that, bad form I think and not in the spirit of the game.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

tsped83 said:



			If you walk away like the Europeans clearly did, you've conceded. Simple as that, bad form I think and not in the spirit of the game.
		
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So you are definitely calling Hull a liar?


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## Robobum (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			So she lied to the match ref?
		
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If you know what she said then enlighten us.

If she said that her, and the caddies, walking off was not a concession then yep.....s he lied.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Robobum said:



			If you know what she said then enlighten us.

If she said that her, and the caddies, walking off was not a concession then yep.....s he lied.
		
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It's dangerous ground right now as both players said they didn't concede the putt.


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			So you are definitely calling Hull a liar?
		
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I've watched the video half a dozen times and all I'm saying is that Hull was definitely walking towards the 18th.
That, for me at least, suggests a concession.
Or do you leave the green while your opponents are still putting???


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			So you are definitely calling Hull a liar?
		
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you are just looking for an argument!


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## tsped83 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			So you are definitely calling Hull a liar?
		
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I'm not calling her anything. Put your wooden spoon away you big girl.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I've watched the video half a dozen times and all I'm saying is that Hull was definitely walking towards the 18th.
That, for me at least, suggests a concession.
Or do you leave the green while your opponents are still putting???
		
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She was walking towards Peterson who was stood on the edge of the green - she says she was moving out of the way of the putt.


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

I would never, ever, leave the green, or attempt to leave the green, whilst my opponent was still putting, whether it was for a birdie or a double bogie.
It's unsporting, and downright bad manners.
I certainly wouldn't attempt to leave the green whilst they still had a putt for a half.


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## alexbrownmp (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's dangerous ground right now as both players said they didn't concede the putt.
		
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you are correct they didnt, I dont remember many or anyone getting so upset as Charlie Hull was doing over apparently not saying anything. Why was she crying? was it guilt or did she bow down to captains pressure to say what the captain wanted? one can only speculate.

I'll reiterate though that Golf and particularly the LET have come out with a slight tarnish over this storm in a 'D' cup.


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			She was walking towards Peterson who was stood on the edge of the green - she says she was moving out of the way of the putt.
		
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Have you actually watched the video closely Phil????


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Hull was spoken to by the match ref. either she said she conceded or she said she didn't concede. She obviously said she didn't. Thus anyone opposing my opinion is essentially calling Hull a liar. Simple as that!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I would never, ever, leave the green, or attempt to leave the green, whilst my opponent was still putting, whether it was for a birdie or a double bogie.
It's unsporting, and downright bad manners.
I certainly wouldn't attempt to leave the green whilst they still had a putt for a half.
		
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And I never ever pick up my ball unless I have putt it into the hole or I have clear indication from my oppo that the putt has been given 

Someone walking isn't clear indication.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			you are correct they didnt, I dont remember many or anyone getting so upset as Charlie Hull was doing over apparently not saying anything. Why was she crying? was it guilt or did she bow down to captains pressure to say what the captain wanted? one can only speculate.

I'll reiterate though that Golf and particularly the LET have come out with a slight tarnish over this storm in a 'D' cup.
		
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Or she was upset because of the accusations aimed at her as they still are now


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Have you actually watched the video closely Phil????
		
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Yep loads of times 

Hull was walking towards Peterson - Lee picked the ball up before Hull had left the green.


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## tsped83 (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Hull was spoken to by the match ref. either she said she conceded or she said she didn't concede. She obviously said she didn't. Thus anyone opposing my opinion is essentially calling Hull a liar. Simple as that!
		
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Wow. She might not have "said" she conceded, but he act of walking off IS CONCEDING in my book. Chill out sunshine.


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## tsped83 (Sep 20, 2015)

tsped83 said:



			Wow. She might not have "said" she conceded, but he act of walking off IS CONCEDING in my book. Chill out sunshine.
		
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I've watched the video again, she is clearly walking off the green with her caddie!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

tsped83 said:



			Wow. She might not have "said" she conceded, but he act of walking off IS CONCEDING in my book. Chill out sunshine.
		
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That's where the grey issue is - there is no set rules out for what is classed as a concession of a putt etc


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

tsped83 said:



			I've watched the video again, she is clearly walking off the green with her caddie!!!
		
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Why didn't she confirm that to the match ref?


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## c1973 (Sep 20, 2015)

If I had walked away like Hull had it would be because I had conceded the putt. 
That's the way it looked to me. 

One of those things folks aren't going to agree on though. 


Looking at that with no commentary and no prior knowledge of this incident, if someone asked you the question "would you say she has conceded there?" I'd say, if you're being honest with yourself, most would say yes.


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## Robster59 (Sep 20, 2015)

There is ambiguity about whether the hole was conceded or not on here but at the end of the day, I would NEVER pick up a ball unless I was 100% CERTAIN that it had been conceded.  Many's the time I've checked with my opponent that I have got it right that they have conceded the hole.  Sometimes you hear a mumble but it's very easy to mistake it so if in doubt, check.  If you are not sure, you ask your playing partners for clarification.  Conceding the putt may be good manners, etiquette, etc. but it is not a right.


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## adam6177 (Sep 20, 2015)

Phil, so you turn your back and start walking away before your opponent has finished the hole? That's bad etiquette in my book.

Still IMO the Europeans were wrong and the US right to be upset.


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's where the grey issue is - there is no set rules out for what is classed as a concession of a putt etc
		
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If a grey area then the Europeans shouldn't have called a penalty.

Ref announced "all square" - Americans weren't the only one that thought putt had been conceded.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2015)

It certainly looked like Charlie had conceded to me. 
Faults on both sides IMO. 


Why not just do away with gimmies,it would avoid any confusion.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			Phil, so you turn your back and start walking away before your opponent has finished the hole? That's bad etiquette in my book.

Still IMO the Europeans were wrong and the US right to be upset.
		
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It maybe bad etiquette but it's common place now for FC to walk off - seen it regualry , only have to watch the US Amatuer or a number of US events with it happening. 

Simple for me - will putt out unless I hear a verbal concession or a clear sign from them regardless of where they are walking. 

Twice she was warned and another time by her PP


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			If a grey area then the Europeans shouldn't have called a penalty.

Ref announced "all square" - Americans weren't the only one that thought putt had been conceded.
		
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Well the grey area isn't the penalty - you can't just pick your ball up - that's rules of golf.


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well the grey area isn't the penalty - you can't just pick your ball up - that's rules of golf.
		
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If the conceding of the putt was a grey area, then the Europeans shouldn't have called a penalty.

Impartial ref thought it had been conceded, so can see why the Americans thought it had been.


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## Robster59 (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			If the conceding of the putt was a grey area, then the Europeans shouldn't have called a penalty.

Impartial ref thought it had been conceded, so can see why the Americans thought it had been.
		
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If the conceding of the putt was a grey area, then the Americans should not have picked the ball up.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			If the conceding of the putt was a grey area, then the Europeans shouldn't have called a penalty.

Impartial ref thought it had been conceded, so can see why the Americans thought it had been.
		
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Or maybe the ref reacted on what the US player did - after speaking to the European players he then corrected what he said and went with what they said. 

Only pick up the ball if it's 100% clear that the putt has been given - simple 

The player had twice been warned - a point that people keep forgetting.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 20, 2015)

I left home to play soon after the incident and it felt pretty sour and in poor sportsmanship. But...the news about the same player being warned by her opponents AND partner yet still she picked up her ball does shed a different light on it. Pettersen had probably had enough and thought "sod it, no more letting her off"...

Where is the word about said warnings though? Is it just rumour or has it been confirmed?


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## UlyssesSky (Sep 20, 2015)

AmandaJR said:



			Where is the word about said warnings though? Is it just rumour or has it been confirmed?
		
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Would like to read a source for these as well. No offense, Liverpoolphil, I believe you, just like to have my information backed-up as good as possible and have something at hand when repeating that argument towards others.


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## Bigfoot (Sep 20, 2015)

I have a book by Jack Nicklaus in which he said that never assume a concession in matchplay. He had a situation once where he was expecting one over a short putt and his opponent walked off which (in his words) meant no concession and he had to hit the putt and missed it. A lesson learnt for him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

UlyssesSky said:



			Would like to read a source for these as well. No offense, Liverpoolphil, I believe you, just like to have my information backed-up as good as possible and have something at hand when repeating that argument towards others.
		
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Rob Lee was talking about it on Sky when they were discussing the incident - got the confirmation from the European Captain


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Can I just say that on a forum day I'd genuinely have no issue actually playing with anyone from the forum. Opinions on here are just that.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 20, 2015)

A question to the people saying the Europeans were in the wrong. You are playing in a match and on the first green your opponent picks the ball up from around a foot before you say anything. You politely ask them to wait for your concession before picking up. Four holes later they do it again from 18 inches and again you ask them to wait for your concession. How many times would you let them do this before enforced a penalty?

I haven't seen the incident in question so don't know for myself what happened but if she had been previously advised/warned not to do it then where do you draw the line?


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## Tashyboy (Sep 20, 2015)

Just seen it and to be honest I thought the European bird was pig ignorant for walking off. If I was in a comp and a player was walking off to next tee after I had missed that putt how does he know that I have holed the 18" putt or not.

poor poor etiquette from the European team.

whats the ruling on this, your opponent says that's a gimme or you ask for a gimme. Because I have never ever asked for a gimme, but for a player to walk off I would assume as would most, pick it up.


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## Smiffy (Sep 20, 2015)

I would be cheesed off enough if my playing partner started to walk off the green if I were playing a medal but a load of you think it's perfectly okay for this to happen in matchplay. Doesn't sit well with me at all so I will stand by my original thoughts despite what the European team are now saying.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I would be cheesed off enough if my playing partner started to walk off the green if I were playing a medal but a load of you think it's perfectly okay for this to happen in matchplay. Doesn't sit well with me at all so I will stand by my original thoughts despite what the European team are now saying.
		
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When did people say it was ok to walk off the hole ?


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## garyinderry (Sep 20, 2015)

"i'll see that in''


"well bloody stand there and watch it, you haven't got eyes on the back of your scone''


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			A question to the people saying the Europeans were in the wrong. You are playing in a match and on the first green your opponent picks the ball up from around a foot before you say anything. You politely ask them to wait for your concession before picking up. Four holes later they do it again from 18 inches and again you ask them to wait for your concession. How many times would you let them do this before enforced a penalty?

I haven't seen the incident in question so don't know for myself what happened but if she had been previously advised/warned not to do it then where do you draw the line?
		
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If you're going to call it I think you need to give them the courtesy of actually being in the vicinity when you do.

To turn your back and start walking off to the next green, then call a penalty when the opponent follows you, is very poor form.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Just watched it again and Hulls caddy stays where he is to watch the putt then puts his hands up when the ball is picked up


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just watched it again and Hulls caddy stays where he is to watch the putt then puts his hands up when the ball is picked up
		
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Pettersens doesn't though. Moves faster than you do when last orders called.


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just watched it again and Hulls caddy stays where he is to watch the putt then puts his hands up when the ball is picked up
		
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Unfortunately the caddy's player weren't interested in watching it!

Wouldn't have happened if Hull had remained where she was.

Can only assume Hull walking off was taken to mean the putt was good - by the American and referee.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Unfortunately the caddy's player weren't interested in watching it!

Wouldn't have happened if Hull had remained where she was.

Can only assume Hull walking off was taken to mean the putt was good - by the American and referee.
		
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Can never assume though surely ? Always have to take the spoken word or a clear action


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Pettersens doesn't though. Moves faster than you do when last orders called.

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Bully - think it's time I reported you !


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## Troymcclure (Sep 20, 2015)

I'm surprised anyone thinks Charley Hull did anything wrong. I think her body language walking towards her partner suggested she considered it an obvious gimmee. But probably expected her senior partner to make the call.

If the rules official asked if she'd conceded the putt and she said no, then that's the truth. She would hardly add that she couldn't believe her partner wanted to see it in.

The question for me is, did Pettersen actually want to see the putt taken or did she take advantage of Lee's naivety in picking up.

Watching the footage afterwards it seemed to me that everyone in the European camp wanted to reverse the decision but were too scared to go against the effing and blinding Pettersen


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can never assume though surely ? Always have to take the spoken word or a clear action
		
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Of course. But once the ball has been incorrectly picked up, the question is how do you deal with it there.

For me, even with the American's previous infractions, it felt like Pettersen took advantage of a confusing situation (what with Hull walking off).

To call a penalty stroke is a big deal, and to do I'd make sure I was on top of the situation!

It didn't smell like golf to me.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Of course. But once the ball has been incorrectly picked up, the question is how do you deal with it there.

For me, even with the American's previous infractions, it felt like Pettersen took advantage of a confusing situation (what with Hull walking off).

To call a penalty stroke is a big deal, and to do I'd make sure I was on top of the situation!

It didn't smell like golf to me.
		
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Maybe she did take advantage or maybe she thought that she has warned her twice and that was the final straw ? Or she just played within the rules ? 

Only she knows the answer to that


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## jp5 (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe she did take advantage or maybe she thought that she has warned her twice and that was the final straw ? Or she just played within the rules ? 

Only she knows the answer to that
		
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Well, looking at the reaction of a number of pros and ex-pros, I know which side they stand on!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

jp5 said:



			Well, looking at the reaction of a number of pros and ex-pros, I know which side they stand on!
		
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Going by how well Petterson is liked ( even by the Europeans ) I can see exactly how they are going to react


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## Robobum (Sep 20, 2015)

From watching that coverage and playing in hundreds of matches I think that Hull has walked off that green in the belief that she has conceded that putt. Her age has probably prevented her from standing up to her partner.

A more experienced player would have have told Petterson "sorry Suzanne, I gave her that putt and walked on" 

Hull will escape criticism because of her age - she shouldn't.


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## Troymcclure (Sep 20, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Her age has probably prevented her from standing up to her partner.
		
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I'm not surprised. Did you hear the way Petterson spoke to her own Captain!!


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 20, 2015)

A horrible situation and Peterson certainly seems to have taken the lead and was to catalyst but at the end of the day the US broke the rules.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 20, 2015)

I have this issue about people being role models and quite frankly some of the Europeean players were not in any way shape or form good role models/players when it comes to people or golfers. I have a feeling this incident is not finished with by a long shout.

a non event / incident turned into a massive spur for the Yanks. And I am sure if this incident was "the other way around" we would be slagging the Yanks off to high heaven.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 20, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			I have this issue about people being role models and quite frankly some of the Europeean players were not in any way shape or form good role models/players when it comes to people or golfers. I have a feeling this incident is not finished with by a long shout.

a non event / incident turned into a massive spur for the Yanks. And I am sure if this incident was "the other way around" we would be slagging the Yanks off to high heaven.
		
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The incident is finished. Just the whingeing and media frenzy that will keep it going.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			I have this issue about people being role models and quite frankly some of the Europeean players were not in any way shape or form good role models/players when it comes to people or golfers. I have a feeling this incident is not finished with by a long shout.

a non event / incident turned into a massive spur for the Yanks. And I am sure if this incident was "the other way around" we would be slagging the Yanks off to high heaven.
		
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What the US players seem to have forgotten is that their player was warned twice and even Lees PP was attempting to warn her at the time of the incident.

As role models they followed the rules of the game.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 20, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What the US players seem to have forgotten is that their player was warned twice and even Lees PP was attempting to warn her at the time of the incident.

As role models they followed the rules of the game.
		
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I agree. Lee was a poor role model on today's showing and Europe showed that you *must* play to the rules no mater how unpalatable


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## JARS (Sep 20, 2015)

Just returning to the post i left earlier and it seems to have caused mixed views. I think the rules are rules end of. BUT, the situation could have been diffused by the Captain's stepping in before they finished 18. The scenes at the 18th were extremely unprofessional and FAIR PLAY to the Americans they just got on the buggy and headed in. Could be said the whole incident cost the Europeans in the end. Still, at least the Dubs won the All Ireland, GB are in the Davis Cup final and England got there bonus point (just).


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I agree. Lee was a poor role model on today's showing and Europe showed that you *must* play to the rules no mater how unpalatable
		
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 No she wasn't. She was a 20 year old rookie, that thought a putt had been conceded. I personally wouldn't judge her on that. She wasn't trying to cheat, she just made a mistake. Blimey I am sure most of us have done a lot worse than that, and still have our good name.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 20, 2015)

Sorry but to say Lee is a poor role model based on what happened today is just pathetic. 
If anything she made a genuine mistake & I can't see her doing it again anytime soon.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			No she wasn't. She was a 20 year old rookie, that thought a putt had been conceded. I personally wouldn't judge her on that. She wasn't trying to cheat, she just made a mistake. Blimey I am sure most of us have done a lot worse than that, and still have our good name.
		
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Certainly should be no slur on the name of Lee - just made a genuine mistake today and was a bit niave but that's all. She was as upset as anyone


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

Lee had been told twice before this incident that she was picking up too soon. How many times do you allow her to do that before you consider her to be cheating?


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Lee had been told twice before this incident that she was picking up too soon. How many times do you allow her to do that before you consider her to be cheating?
		
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Cheating is a bit harsh. Presumptious or even arrogant in her presumtion, but not a cheat. Who'd do that with x many thousand spectators and TV watching every shot?


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## The Green Fairy (Sep 20, 2015)

A concession has to be 'given' - the rest is just gamesmanship surely?

Who knows, perhaps this was a setup, American girl a known picker upper and an opportunity to get her to do it in the match,  bide your time, make a confident stride away, after her first putt - Bingo!

Can't see the problem here. No way is 'walking away' a concession - verbal only!!!!! 

End of.

Matchplay is a different game guys - it involves guile


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## Liverbirdie (Sep 20, 2015)

Chelsea behaviour.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 20, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The incident is finished. Just the whingeing and media frenzy that will keep it going.
		
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Might well be finished in front of the media and Joe Public. But behind the scenes, nah.

A very poor incident indeed to happen in front of the worlds cameras, on such a large stage. Should never of happened.

summat that nots been mentioned is the day before, the players in the comp were being ripped to bits for slow play.

The following day a player picks up when players leave the green and it all kicks off.

sometimes your damned if you do and damned if you don't.


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## TH63 (Sep 21, 2015)

I think by Hull being perceived to be walking off the green, implied that the putt was given, Petterson was nowhere near here and arguably should've been standing next to Hull. 
Clearly not the case, the decent thing to have done was to say, ok, but tell the match referee to spell it out that she must wait to be told it was a gimme in future.


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## Colin L (Sep 21, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			Can't see the problem here. No way is 'walking away' a concession - verbal only!!!!! 

End of.

Matchplay is a different game guys - it involves guile   

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I wouldn't say a concession has to be verbal. I would accept a player with what looks a gimme  making a gesture and looking at his opponent who then nods or waves a hand in a way that clearly indicates yes, you can pick up.  It' s very common.  Indeed I saw that several times in the Walker Cup. But just walking away? No. The player could just be moving out of the way of his opponent's (unconceded) putt, for example.


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