# Captains right of way!



## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

I was pulled up on our 2nd tee as the course was clogged in front by an ex-captain and current handicap secretary for not allowing my club captain to tee off the 1st tee before me!

3 of us were waiting to tee off on the 1st as the captain and 3 colleagues joined us in the queue and as soon as the 1st fairway was clear in front, we tee'd off, only to be pulled on the 2nd tee stating, I, although their was 3of us but I seem to get the attention directed at me for some reason, that I/we should have given or at least offered the captain 'right of way', is this correct?

I can't find any mention of it throughout the R&A website or is it one of these unwritten antiquated etiquette rules that you learn by default or, is it a load of tosh! 

The ex-captain even went as far as saying that even if I was tee'd up on the 1st but hadn't started our 3-ball and saw the captain walking towards the 1st, I should have stepped aside!

Discuss...


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## Imurg (Nov 11, 2013)

We've had this before about a couple of years back.
Load of old baloney if you ask me but at some clubs it may be a "club" rule...


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## adam6177 (Nov 11, 2013)

I'd have kicked them all square in the nuts.  Ludicrous.


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## Ethan (Nov 11, 2013)

Some clubs have this rule/practice, enforced with varying degrees of strictness, usually depending how big the captains of the year's ego is. Rather anachronistic in my opinion. 

I think it is one thing if you are just milling around waiting for the tee to clear, another if you are in your pre-shot routine when His Holiness turns up.


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## GB72 (Nov 11, 2013)

It was me who posted about this a couple of years ago. At my old club the captain had the right to jump any queue on the first tee. In my case our 3 balk had been queuing for about 40 minutes in the cold when the captain exerted his privilege to tee off ahead with a mixed 4 ball. We did explain that one of our group was short on time to which he informed us that he would try not to hold us up too much. That was the last straw and I left the club at the end of that year.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Nov 11, 2013)

Absolute nonsense imo. The skipper at ours has to put his name down against a tee time like the rest of us. Tell the ex-captain and the handicap secretary to go kiss your swingers!He`s just a bloke ffs.:angry:
I`m surprised you weren`t expected to tug your forlock and bow when he came near you.:angry::angry:
Those two who had a word with you........were they serious?
If they were I`d seriously consider joining somewhere else.


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

Baldy Bouncer said:



			Those two who had a word with you........were they serious?
If they were I`d seriously consider joining somewhere else.
		
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Very much so, the one ex-captain and HS is known to be a stubborn rule stickler and suffocates new ideas, change and things quoting chapter and verse all the time (closed halfway house all the time), he's not the most approachable of individuals and even went as far as to say to me " your (me) are always banging on about things being done properly, well you should have let your captain through!".  

The course is great but these old clique committee members are starting to seriously question my membership.


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

GB72 said:



			It was me who posted about this a couple of years ago. At my old club the captain had the right to jump any queue on the first tee. In my case our 3 balk had been queuing for about 40 minutes in the cold when the captain exerted his privilege to tee off ahead with a mixed 4 ball. We did explain that one of our group was short on time to which he informed us that he would try not to hold us up too much. That was the last straw and I left the club at the end of that year.
		
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We had effectually been waiting around 20 minutes, possibly a little more so we were on the chipping area at the side of the 1st waiting for the tee to clear but had our bags in the queue, they (old guard) never warm up so they just come down the path to the 1st and if in the company of the captain, expect right of way!

After being challenged like this on the 2nd tee, and after a very good 1st hole, it was running around in my head that they targeted me and I blobbed the next 2 holes before I settled down again!


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

I will go against the grain on this one and say that I think it is a good rule.  It is a lot of effort to be the captain of a club if you do it properly and it should come with a few perks, one of which being able to play when you arrive at the tee rather than wait.  

Of course, that does not necessarily mean that the captain should immediately take advantage of this on every occasion and you would think that jumping to the front of a 40 minute queue would be one of those times when discretion would be the better part of valour.


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I will go against the grain on this one and say that I think it is a good rule.  It is a lot of effort to be the captain of a club if you do it properly and it should come with a few perks, one of which being able to play when you arrive at the tee rather than wait.  

Of course, that does not necessarily mean that the captain should immediately take advantage of this on every occasion and you would think that jumping to the front of a 40 minute queue would be one of those times when discretion would be the better part of valour.
		
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and they were a 4 ball and we were a 3 ball, what's the point in that, we'd be up their backsides immediately looking to be waved through, or is he exempt of that also!?


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			and they were a 4 ball and we were a 3 ball, what's the point in that, we'd be up their backsides immediately looking to be waved through, or is he exempt of that also!?
		
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Same answer applies really. 

Of course, that does not necessarily mean that the captain should immediately take advantage of this on every occasion and you would think that *jumping to the front of a 3 ball when you are in a 4 ball* would be one of those times when discretion would be the better part of valour.


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

It is things like this that really make me question if it is worth the hassle of being a member of a traditional club anymore. The committee politics and cliques that go on are crazy. The thing is as well is that the ones who normally enforce these stupid rules or grumble about stuff are usually the biggest offenders. I am really tempted to go along the pay and play route or schemes like DeVere and Marriott offer, no moaning members, no archaic committee and no cliques.


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## Duckster (Nov 11, 2013)

We have this at our place, however I've never witnessed the captain using the privilege.


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## DAVEYBOY (Nov 11, 2013)

This is why I would never be a member of a club with silly committees who think they are running Augusta National. I wouldn't let the queen tee off before me let alone a golf club captain.


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## Robobum (Nov 11, 2013)

Sits fine with me. There are reasons (in my mind) that this unwritten rule should be there....

The captain may well be entertaining people from other clubs, sponsors, potential sponsors, new members, potential new members etc etc.

A quick nod to them and the question "do you want to go?" I've yet to see a capt abuse this and just jump in with their regular 4ball.


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## the smiling assassin (Nov 11, 2013)

40 minute queue??!!! Sounds like it's time for a booking system, or an improved one if there already is one. I'm a member at an extremely busy club but I've never seen a queue like that. 5 mins wait is the worst I've seen. 
Our captain does have the honour, this year he has the tee at 12noon every day.


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## Sharktooth (Nov 11, 2013)

I would have allowed it, but ripped the gish. Down on knees and giving it "please don't hit me boss, I is sorry boss, plea don't hit me know mo"


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 11, 2013)

Even with the rule in place, I would be very surprised in this day and age if a Captain exercised that right unless as Robobum says he was hosting sponsors\members etc. If he did it just because it was busy and he and his mates wanted to queue jump he would go down in my estimation.


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

the smiling assassin said:



			40 minute queue??!!! Sounds like it's time for a booking system, or an improved one if there already is one. I'm a member at an extremely busy club but I've never seen a queue like that. 5 mins wait is the worst I've seen. 
Our captain does have the honour, this year he has the tee at 12noon every day.
		
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You ought to have seen our local course this summer, there were 23 waiting on the first tee and another 4ball on the way down, I drove straight into the car park turned around a headed for the range. I had heard of reports of rounds over 6 hours that day!!


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Even with the rule in place, I would be very surprised in this day and age if a Captain exercised that right unless as Robobum says he was hosting sponsors\members etc. If he did it just because it was busy and he and his mates wanted to queue jump he would go down in my estimation.
		
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I agree, so what's the point in raising it and challenging me whilst on the 2nd tee whilst I'm trying to keep focused.

I was in a medal comp, as they came off around the 12th they must have only been playing a winter league of friendly so I had right of way anyway as I was in an official comp, did they ask if I was playing in that days medal on the 1st or when challenging me on the 2nd, NO!


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## Hobbit (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I will go against the grain on this one and say that I think it is a good rule.  It is a lot of effort to be the captain of a club if you do it properly and it should come with a few perks, one of which being able to play when you arrive at the tee rather than wait.  

Of course, that does not necessarily mean that the captain should immediately take advantage of this on every occasion and you would think that jumping to the front of a 40 minute queue would be one of those times when discretion would be the better part of valour.
		
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Robobum said:



			Sits fine with me. There are reasons (in my mind) that this unwritten rule should be there....

The captain may well be entertaining people from other clubs, sponsors, potential sponsors, new members, potential new members etc etc.

A quick nod to them and the question "do you want to go?" I've yet to see a capt abuse this and just jump in with their regular 4ball.
		
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I don't have a problem of an unwritten rule that the Capt has priority on the first tee. He gives hours of his time every week, surely its not the end of the world to give him 10 mins of yours.

A decent Capt would only accept an invitation to play through if he has guests. He wants the club to be seen in the best light, and I dare say most club members would want the same.

A question; did you or your partners not know of the club "rule?"


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## Robobum (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			I agree, so what's the point in raising it and challenging me whilst on the 2nd tee whilst I'm trying to keep focused.

I was in a medal comp, as they came off around the 12th they must have only been playing a winter league of friendly so I had right of way anyway as I was in an official comp, did they ask if I was playing in that days medal on the 1st or when challenging me on the 2nd, NO!
		
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Why should medal comps have priority?


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 11, 2013)

Wouldnt know our captain from Adam unless he carried a placard with the word "Captain" on it

Does sound a bit old school and quite rightly would wind many folk up the wrong way.

If he was "entertaining" either the captain or a lackey should have come up to you and said " Sorry chaps, captains showing a potential corporate sponsor round the course, and it would be great if we could nudge in ahead of you, Is that OK?

Then you may have said OK, but to barge in is out of order in my book


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			I don't have a problem of an unwritten rule that the Capt has priority on the first tee. He gives hours of his time every week, surely its not the end of the world to give him 10 mins of yours.

A decent Capt would only accept an invitation to play through if he has guests. He wants the club to be seen in the best light, and I dare say most club members would want the same.

A question; did you or your partners not know of the club "rule?"
		
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Brian, He was not with any guests, only an ex-captain and 2 other club members.

There is nothing in our local club rules, I have scoured them this morning.

http://www.kenilworthgolfclub.co.uk/assets/files/Membership/Rules of Play Amended.pdf

If the ex-captain felt so strongly about it, why didn't he mention it on the 1st tee as they arrived as we were waiting with them for a couple of minutes for the fairway in front to clear.

Surely it is poor etiquette from him/them to raise it on the 2nd tee once I'm into my medal comp round, surely it could have been raised in the clubhouse afterwards, however, I can't find it written anywhere so how are you supposed to know about it?


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

Robobum said:



			Why should medal comps have priority?
		
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Its in our local rules that all Official Comps have right of way above general play and certain unofficial comps.


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## CMAC (Nov 11, 2013)

couldnt even tell you who our cptn is or what he looks like.

However, I'm all for 'perks' if you hold office and unpaid, it's a small and respectful benefit for the work done to keep the club going, it should be a benefit and not a right.

For ppl like me and many others who dont know him by face yet, then the starter or pro should make anyone round his tee time aware of the courtesy but not to abuse or enforce it.


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## Robobum (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			Its in our local rules that all Official Comps have right of way above general play and certain unofficial comps.
		
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I did presume that was the answer, pretty standard at a lot of places.

The reason I asked was that if you don't have tee blocks for comps it's just another rule regarding priority that is no different to one regarding the captain.

I don't think it's the rules that are the issue, its if they are applied without common sense or thought for fellow members.


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## Hobbit (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			Brian, He was not with any guests, only an ex-captain and 2 other club members.

There is nothing in our local club rules, I have scoured them this morning.

http://www.kenilworthgolfclub.co.uk/assets/files/Membership/Rules of Play Amended.pdf

If the ex-captain felt so strongly about it, why didn't he mention it on the 1st tee as they arrived as we were waiting with them for a couple of minutes for the fairway in front to clear.

Surely it is poor etiquette from him/them to raise it on the 2nd tee once I'm into my medal comp round, surely it could have been raised in the clubhouse afterwards, however, I can't find it written anywhere so how are you supposed to know about it?
		
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It should have been raised with a quiet word afterwards. Some committee men, past and present, could do with brushing up on their people skills, and don't do themselves any favours by being confrontational. Or as you say, a polite "are you going to offer the Captain the tee" whilst you were waiting...

Sorry but I'm old school (read brainwashed) and don't have any problem with many of the old traditions.


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## duncan mackie (Nov 11, 2013)

you should have offered (courtesy), and he should have declined unless there was good reason (consideration) - as Snelly/Robo/Hobbit/CMAC allude.

if he'd accepted, I would also have expected the steward to advise you that there wasaa a round paid for back in the clubhouse when you finished


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 11, 2013)

Our captain(s) have always been as good as gold even though I assume we have something in the rules giving them some kind of precedence. We just tend to go out in first come first served order unless its a comp. I feel this rule is antiquated and I dislike anyone using their office to effectively bully their way onto the course.


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Our captain(s) have always been as good as gold even though I assume we have something in the rules giving them some kind of precedence. We just tend to go out in first come first served order unless its a comp. I feel this rule is antiquated and I dislike anyone using their office to effectively bully their way onto the course.
		
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What about the Captain bullying his way into his / her reserved car parking space near the clubhouse?  Do you also all think that this courtesy should be removed?   I can't see much difference between the two?  Why should the captain have the perk of a premium reserved space in the car park?   Captains have two legs, surely they can walk the few extra yards from the car park?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			What about the Captain bullying his way into his / her reserved car parking space near the clubhouse?  Do you also all think that this courtesy should be removed?   I can't see much difference between the two?  Why should the captain have the perk of a premium reserved space in the car park?   Captains have two legs, surely they can walk the few extra yards from the car park?
		
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Captains do a lot of work for a golf club and IMO should be able to have at the very least a couple of perks. Parking space is one and reserves tee times is another.

Shouldn't have priority on the tee though.


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Captains do a lot of work for a golf club and IMO should be able to have at the very least a couple of perks. Parking space is one and reserves tee times is another.

Shouldn't have priority on the tee though.
		
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I agree, they have this at my club, all comps on the HDID website are accessible by ALL committee members for about a week before they are open to the general membership so they can book preferred tee times with their friends (non-committee), I don't agree that it should be rolled out to NTR days when people have been waiting in a queue and they or the even just the captain, can expect to go to the front..


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## 3565 (Nov 11, 2013)

Robobum said:



			Why should medal comps have priority?
		
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Are you serious?

i don't mind traditions at clubs that have been around for years and giving your Captain right of way can be one of them. They do give a lot of time up for the club and expense so they have privileges. But for a captain to exorcise his privilege when your in a medal comp is out of order. The comp takes priority over anything in my opinion. Personally there would be a letter of complaint winging its way to the committee by now. You as a member and especially a members club have rights to voice your opinion and disgust about anything.


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## chrisd (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm at  private members club and agree with Snelly, Robobum that the (unwritten) rule that the Captain can have priority on the tee is correct and I further agree that a good Captain only take advantage of this perk on certain occasions. Over approximately 15 years at my club I've probably stood aside 6 times and am happy to do so considering the work that he guy puts into the club and the crap from members he puts up with.

I wouldn't be happy at being accosted on he course in a comp that I hadn't offered this right of passage and would expect, if anything had to be said, for it to be done later after my round and fairly to all in my group equally!


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## Lincoln Quaker (Nov 11, 2013)

Sorry but I don't buy into this at all, The Captain of the club shouldn't get a priority on the tee. Yes he or she may have given the extra hours but its their choice to do this and why should they just expect to jump to the front of any queue on the tee. I know its tradition but clubs need to get out of the dark ages as they are not going to attract new members with things like the that annoy golfers that have been on the tee for 20-30 mins already.


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## chrisd (Nov 11, 2013)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Sorry but I don't buy into this at all, The Captain of the club shouldn't get a priority on the tee. Yes he or she may have given the extra hours but its their choice to do this and why should they just expect to jump to the front of any queue on the tee. I know its tradition but clubs need to get out of the dark ages as they are not going to attract new members with things like the that annoy golfers that have been on the tee for 20-30 mins already.
		
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I never did an interview for new members where any asked whether Captains get this privilege and certainly cant imagine anyone leaving, or not joining, because of it alone. Golf is played predominately by people averaging mid 50's in age and I think most would accept this rule (if it is a rule) much more readily than the younger generation will do


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## Lincoln Quaker (Nov 11, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I never did an interview for new members where any asked whether Captains get this privilege and certainly cant imagine anyone leaving, or not joining, because of it alone. Golf is played predominately by people averaging mid 50's in age and I think most would accept this rule (if it is a rule) much more readily than the younger generation will do
		
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Read GB72's quote, He had it and it was a final straw for him so left so that club lost out for another old school rule, I am sure there was more to it but some clubs need to change very quickly.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Read GB72's quote, He had it and it was a final straw for him so left so that club lost out for another old school rule, I am sure there was more to it but some clubs need to change very quickly.
		
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Don't judge all private courses on the experience of one - I would suggest that incidents of Capts "barging" through quoting unwritten rules are more in the minority ( very small minority ) and that maybe more down to the personality and attitude of the "ex captain" etc as opposed to the make up of the club and it's "old school rules "


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I wouldn't be happy at being accosted on he course in a comp that I hadn't offered this right of passage and would expect, if anything had to be said, for it to be done later after my round and fairly to all in my group equally!
		
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This was my main gripe TBH Chris, not the unwritten rule itself, although I think those that felt the need to exercise it knowing members had been standing in a queue for 20 minutes or more are simply on a power trip with no thought of the general membership, which they will return to in 12 months!

For the ex-captain to confront me on behalf of the captain in his company in any manner and then expand on it at the 2nd tee when competing in a medal far outweighs the original offence, if indeed it can be called that!

When they arrived on the 2nd tee and saw us still waiting, I pointed out that their handicap secretary who was on the green at the 2nd did not call us down! Our 2nd is a courtesy hole, a 209yd par3 and when everyone is on the green you are requested to call down those on the tee and then putt out, they didn't, so it would seem that our committee members do not run by the same rules, written or unwritten that they like to preach when it suits only them!


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## GB72 (Nov 11, 2013)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			Read GB72's quote, He had it and it was a final straw for him so left so that club lost out for another old school rule, I am sure there was more to it but some clubs need to change very quickly.
		
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Mine was not a protest on the rule per se but rather how it was applied and the people skills used. One of my group was a teacher who needed to be back for school sports in the afternoon but this was not seen as a good enough reason to keep our place in the queue. As it happens the captain's group was so slow he had to walk off after 14 holes. Also bear in mind that this group had brought over about a dozen members from their old club so had done plenty to boost the membership of the club in question. Add to that the fact that we had queued whilst the captain's group Sat in a nice warm clubhouse having breakfast and you can understand the frustration of that situation


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## chrisd (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			This was my main gripe TBH Chris, not the unwritten rule itself, although I think those that felt the need to exercise it knowing members had been standing in a queue for 20 minutes or more are simply on a power trip with no thought of the general membership, which they will return to in 12 months!

For the ex-captain to confront me on behalf of the captain in his company in any manner and then expand on it at the 2nd tee when competing in a medal far outweighs the original offence, if indeed it can be called that!

When they arrived on the 2nd tee and saw us still waiting, I pointed out that their handicap secretary who was on the green at the 2nd did not call us down! Our 2nd is a courtesy hole, a 209yd par3 and when everyone is on the green you are requested to call down those on the tee and then putt out, they didn't, so it would seem that our committee members do not run by the same rules, written or unwritten that they like to preach when it suits only them!
		
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I agree with you totally on the way it was done Robin, totally outrageous!


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## cleanstrike (Nov 11, 2013)

As a newcomer to the sport of golf and still struggling to understand all of the rules and etiquette, I'd like to ask this question in relation to this thread.

If I was a paying visitor to a club and some chap came up to me claiming to be the club captain or someone equally 'important' (allegedly) and demanded to be allowed through, am I to be expected to wait and allow him/her to carry on ahead of me. I ask because, generally speaking, the only thing that gets people ahead of me if I was there first is when they've got blue flashing lights and sirens going. Everybody else waits.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

cleanstrike said:



			As a newcomer to the sport of golf and still struggling to understand all of the rules and etiquette, I'd like to ask this question in relation to this thread.

If I was a paying visitor to a club and some chap came up to me claiming to be the club captain or someone equally 'important' (allegedly) and demanded to be allowed through, am I to be expected to wait and allow him/her to carry on ahead of me. I ask because, generally speaking, the only thing that gets people ahead of me if I was there first is when they've got blue flashing lights and sirens going. Everybody else waits.
		
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Judge the situation - if they are playing a comp then possibly , if you are holding them up then yes but it's all how the person asks and what the situation 

It's not very likely you will get someone coming up demanding they are let through because of who they are. 


At least the OP didnt get kicked off St Andrews Airforce Base GC because Obama wanted to play !! That happened to a mate of mine


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## bladeplayer (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			Its in our local rules that all Official Comps have right of way above general play and certain unofficial comps.
		
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Then the Captain , committee or any member  has no right to actually break  or to want to break club rules .. 



duncan mackie said:



			you should have offered (courtesy), and he should have declined unless there was good reason (
		
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I really like this answer..


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## garyinderry (Nov 11, 2013)

i believe you should ask the captain to step forward in the queue.  the pressure will be on his shoulders to perform if he accepts. 


it is a perk of the job and only manners to offer.  


it shouldn't come up all that often. I think its only happened to me once.   I arrived at the tee just ahead of him. I was waiting for my friend to appear from the changing rooms, so was he. I let him take the tee first as its the done thing. 

we have tee times for comps (sat&sun) and you can book a tee for any time during the week.  the captain will book like the rest of us at the weekend.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 11, 2013)

If you in a competition and waiting 20 minutes on tee, the club is too full. I don't care too much about the captain's perks provided we all know them. Anywhere where there is a ridiculous waiting time suggests that you should look for quieter times in the day. After 3pm at mine in summer is quiet, after 5pm its dead... I love it. Just find the times when it's clear and get your fill. Work can be done any time


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

harpo_72 said:



			If you in a competition and waiting 20 minutes on tee, the club is too full. I don't care too much about the captain's perks provided we all know them. Anywhere where there is a ridiculous waiting time suggests that you should look for quieter times in the day. After 3pm at mine in summer is quiet, after 5pm its dead... I love it. Just find the times when it's clear and get your fill. Work can be done any time 

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You need 8-10 minutes gap off our 1st tee with 4 balls, that's what they do when comps and tee times are booked, this Saturday was a NTR medal so you could play in it by choice by informing the Pro on the day, as such there was general play and winter league matches (not official) going on around everyone. You only need 3 or 4  3-balls arriving at the 1st for there to be a wait of around 15/20 minutes.

After 3 or 5pm isn't an option now is it, unless your course is floodlit? As such there will now be a rush to tee of before 1pm every weekend currently.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			You need 8-10 minutes gap off our 1st tee with 4 balls, that's what they do when comps and tee times are booked, this Saturday was a NTR medal so you could play in it by choice by informing the Pro on the day, as such there was general play and winter league matches (not official) going on around everyone. You only need 3 or 4  3-balls arriving at the 1st for there to be a wait of around 15/20 minutes.

After 3 or 5pm isn't an option now is it, unless your course is floodlit? As such there will now be a rush to tee of before 1pm every weekend currently.
		
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No your right now its not an option but summer time is fine. You will always get more pressure on a reasonable winter day. But I am sure you can find a quiet time ...


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## MadAdey (Nov 11, 2013)

Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order. 

I got approached at a club not long ago in a rude manner regarding slow play, (by the way it wasn't, as my 4-ball where a hole ahead and keeping pretty good pace with the 2-ball infront) and if I did not know some of the members there it would not show the club in a good light to me. No place for rudeness and if that person felt like they should say something then catch you afterwards in the bar or something, not on the course as it can put you off your game, it did me.


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## chrisd (Nov 11, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order. 

.
		
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I agree with every word Adey, now watch someone do the usual post !

Captains only do the job because they need to be seen as important and for what's in it for themselves - you know the one!


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## GB72 (Nov 11, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order. 

I got approached at a club not long ago in a rude manner regarding slow play, (by the way it wasn't, as my 4-ball where a hole ahead and keeping pretty good pace with the 2-ball infront) and if I did not know some of the members there it would not show the club in a good light to me. No place for rudeness and if that person felt like they should say something then catch you afterwards in the bar or something, not on the course as it can put you off your game, it did me.
		
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Totally agree, I have no problem with the rule in general and agree that there should be some perks to what can be a very onerous position. It is all down to how and when they are applied. In Fish's case, the way in which it was dealt with was totally inappropriate and, whilst I could be wrong, some of the actions and comments made by the Captain's group seem to suggest that there may be something personal in it as well as simply the application of a courtesy. Apologies Fish if I am out of order suggesting that but it sounds to me like some people had an axe to grind and were using this an opportunity. 

In my situation when I received the captain's 'excuse me', again, I feel that it was an inappropriate time to do so and further that it was not dealt with in a particularly pleasant manner. On a cold morning on a busy course, it will always grind my gears if I have to give up my place because the Captain and his group wanted to sit in the warm with a full English rather than queue in the cold and wet with everyone else. To then be presented with a very legitimate reason why one of our group was in a rush that day and to shrug it off as hard luck was also a bit much. To compound that by then saying that they will try not to hold us up, a tacit way of stating that we were not going to be played through, was the last straw.

I have been to many clubs who have this rule and spoken to members and not one has seen a captain make use of it except on his last day in office when it was sort of expected of him to do so.


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## One Planer (Nov 11, 2013)

Our club captain is quite the opposite.

Although we have this rule at our club, I don't think I've ever seen him use it and, on more than one occasion, seen him let other groups tee off before him and his group. 

A typical example a few weeks back where he was playing with his regular 4 ball and he let a 3 ball tee off before him so as not to hold them up. bearing in mind two of the players in his regular group are higher handicappers (Not a handicap dig BTW)

If he ever did decide to exercise his 'right' to the first tee, I would have no issue in letting him.


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## MadAdey (Nov 11, 2013)

GB72 said:



			In Fish's case, the way in which it was dealt with was totally inappropriate and, whilst I could be wrong, some of the actions and comments made by the Captain's group seem to suggest that there may be something personal in it as well as simply the application of a courtesy.
		
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I see what you are saying, it sounds like there may have been a bit more in it. Or the person is just rude and ignorant.




GB72 said:



			I have been to many clubs who have this rule and spoken to members and not one has seen a captain make use of it except on his last day in office when it was sort of expected of him to do so.
		
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Had this at one club I was a member of once. Captain turned up at the first tee with the soon to be Captain and what is considered 2 of the slowest players in the club. Used his right to go ahead of the 20 or so people on the tee and proceeded to take 2 1/2 to play the front 9. He did then take a break at the halfway house and buy everyone who he pushed in front of a drink and let them play through. Only time I have been caught by this though, quite a few people were moaning, but I saw the funny side of it as did my playing partners, but then again I am in the military so I probably have the sense of humour that would find this funny.:rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 11, 2013)

The thing I find strange about this thread is how many members are so disinterested in THEIR club that they do not even take the bother to find out who the Captain is. Now wonder some golf clubs are struggling if this is deemed as a normal attitude.

Captain's right of way is a long held tradition at most decent clubs
To ignore it makes you look pretty ill informed.

The instance of the OP is strange and shows that Captain in a very poor light. Perhaps we don't know the full story. Especially with an ex captain playing as well.

Most club Captains know the drill, they have put in many years of service to manage and improve YOUR club.

PS sounds like many clubs need to invest in an on line booking system.


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## MadAdey (Nov 11, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The thing I find strange about this thread is how many members are so disinterested in THEIR club that they do not even take the bother to find out who the Captain is. Now wonder some golf clubs are struggling if this is deemed as a normal attitude.
		
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I see your point, but most clubs change their Captain at this time of year, I know mine does. So you might not actually recognise him.




Doon frae Troon said:



			Most club Captains know the drill, they have put in many years of service to manage and improve YOUR club.
		
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Absolutely spot on.....:thup:


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## talksalot81 (Nov 11, 2013)

Were it me, I would have apologised and asked them to provide me a list of all these rules so that I could familiarise myself with them. I would imagine that this sort of thing is very loose and depends rather upon the good will of those on the tee. If I was with a paying guest and someone tried this on me, I would flat out refuse. There are too many old farts with their heads in their bottoms.


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## Robobum (Nov 11, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order. 

I got approached at a club not long ago in a rude manner regarding slow play, (by the way it wasn't, as my 4-ball where a hole ahead and keeping pretty good pace with the 2-ball infront) and if I did not know some of the members there it would not show the club in a good light to me. No place for rudeness and if that person felt like they should say something then catch you afterwards in the bar or something, not on the course as it can put you off your game, it did me.
		
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I'm not disagreeing with your post Adey but, certainly at our club, the captains have 3 free subscription years (Vice, actual & immediate past) - Â£2.5k approx.

Like everything, there are good & bad captains who do the job for varying reasons and put into it varying amounts of time and commitment not to mention a fair few quid across the bar.

Like you, I like the rule and, as long as it's not abused, think it should stay.


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## User 105 (Nov 11, 2013)

I don't have any issue with the 'rule' providing it's used appropriately. As has been said these guys dedicate a lot of time and in some cases quite a bit of their own money to being captain all for the benefit of the members. So have no issues giving a little back.

I've been on the end of it a few times and actually find it's not the captain as such that causes the issues. Usually an overzealous starter or some prat in his group. Most of the captains I've come across seem decent blokes.

I was once out by myself and was asked by the starter to stand aside on the first tee after I'd already teed the ball up to make way for the captain, bad timing, but thought ok no biggie I'm in no hurry. So grabbed my ball and was walking back to my bag when the captain asked me what I was doing as he was only just walking up to the 1st. He just said "Don't be daft, get up there and give a good hit". Top bloke.

I've also had course rangers running round in front of the captains 4 ball on a Sunday morning clearing people out the way so they can play through  'As they were in a hurry !'.


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## patricks148 (Nov 11, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The thing I find strange about this thread is how many members are so disinterested in THEIR club that they do not even take the bother to find out who the Captain is. Now wonder some golf clubs are struggling if this is deemed as a normal attitude.

Captain's right of way is a long held tradition at most decent clubs
To ignore it makes you look pretty ill informed.

The instance of the OP is strange and shows that Captain in a very poor light. Perhaps we don't know the full story. Especially with an ex captain playing as well.

Most club Captains know the drill, they have put in many years of service to manage and improve YOUR club.

PS sounds like many clubs need to invest in an on line booking system.
		
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I tend to agree, on the whole most deserve the lttle perks they get. 

Hours of Com meeting speeches and functions all for the benifit of the club, i don't begrudge the club Captains his parking space etc.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			Do I like that rule? Yes I do. Club captains do a lot for the club and do not receive any money for it, sometimes it costs them when they have to travel to places to represent the club. Captain at my place works bloody hard for that parking spot and the courtesy of being given priority on the first tee. He attends several corporate days that we hold, ladies & mens open, ladies & mens invitational, hosts captains day, assists with running lady captains day amongst some of the other big ladies comps. All of those mean him giving up a day of his time and being at the club for long hours. There is probably more than that including taking prospective members out for a courtesy round. So letting him have priority and the best parking space IMO is the least we should do.

But, agreeing with what others have said. I would not expect him to use his right of way at the first tee, unless there is a very good reason. In Robins situation I just think it was pure ignorance and they were out of order. 

I got approached at a club not long ago in a rude manner regarding slow play, (by the way it wasn't, as my 4-ball where a hole ahead and keeping pretty good pace with the 2-ball infront) and if I did not know some of the members there it would not show the club in a good light to me. No place for rudeness and if that person felt like they should say something then catch you afterwards in the bar or something, not on the course as it can put you off your game, it did me.
		
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Spot on - summed up perfectly


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

I must state again, this was a ex-captain who confronted me in this group on the 2nd tee and not the captain himself who was playing with him at the time, but, the point was being put across quite strongly.

I put ideas forward and ask about things at my club, as is my right and this was also thrown in my face at the 2nd tee as the ex-captain who challenged me had been the handicap secretary for the last 2 years or more and he said to me "_your always banging on about doing things properly, you should have given the 1st tee to your captain, even if you were tee'd up and see him walking down the payth towards the 1st tee, you step aside!"_, so I agree, I think it was an opportunity he thought to throw something back at me as I'm not one of the 'nodding dogs'!

I was actually playing in a NTR medal comp, it became obvious as they walked off around the 12th they were not, so I had priority anyway and what's more, we were a 3 ball and they were a 4 ball, what would be the point in letting them go first only to be straight up their backsides looking to be waved through, or is he exempt of that also! Had it going around in my head for a couple of holes then which had a negative affect on my game.

We had an excellent younger captain last year, all away meets and club outings were well documented, he was far more visible at weekends, he  broke away from his usual playing groups and sat and played amongst all of us.  I've read or seen nothing reported from any of the club meets and away days this year I've attended with this years captain which we change every year, we've gone backwards with this captain IMO and its coming across to some that our captaincy is given as a long service record rather than to someone who is looking to support and represent the membership with new ideas and to take the club forward. Its almost like an old boys school tie club at our place who want the "status" only, other than last year of course.

I personally think the captain and all committee members get enough perks with car parking spaces along with being able to book preferred tee times in comps 1 week prior to the general membership, I've read that some get expenses and don't pay the captaincy year membership fee's also, so, they shouldn't be able to walk to the front of a queue on the 1st or 10th when its NTR and people have been waiting for 20 minutes or more also, that's taking the pish!

Another nail in the coffin, shame because the course is so good but a move is looking even more immanent now.


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

If your not happy then walk, sounds like it is a old boys clique kind of set up, if this is the case nowt will change until the can no longer player golf or pop their clogs. Harsh but true. This is one of the things that is really starting to put me off private member clubs now.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I will go against the grain on this one and say that I think it is a good rule.  It is a lot of effort to be the captain of a club if you do it properly and it should come with a few perks, one of which being able to play when you arrive at the tee rather than wait.  

Of course, that does not necessarily mean that the captain should immediately take advantage of this on every occasion and you would think that jumping to the front of a 40 minute queue would be one of those times when discretion would be the better part of valour.
		
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Not against the grain for me @Snelly - not a rule in our place but generally accepted as what we do.  Captain of a golf club has generally done a lot of work for the club prior to being elected Captain - and as Captain he puts in a huge amount of time into representing the club.  The least a club's members can do is to recognise the Captain when he is on home turf. It's the one way that any member can actually say 'thank you' to the Captain so I actually don't see it as a captain's 'perk' of the job - more a 'thanks' from the members.


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## richart (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I will go against the grain on this one and say that I think it is a good rule.  It is a lot of effort to be the captain of a club if you do it properly and it should come with a few perks, one of which being able to play when you arrive at the tee rather than wait.  

Of course, that does not necessarily mean that the captain should immediately take advantage of this on every occasion and you would think that jumping to the front of a 40 minute queue would be one of those times when discretion would be the better part of valour.
		
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Sums it up for me.

I also think it is a good idea for members to know who their Captain is. We have photos of ours over the bar just in case.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 11, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			This is why I would never be a member of a club with silly committees who think they are running Augusta National. I wouldn't let the queen tee off before me let alone a golf club captain.
		
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No-body?  Oh dear daveyboy - not a lot of respect for your captain - or anyone then - when it comes to golf then?


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## Old Skier (Nov 11, 2013)

Queuing - do clubs not have some kind of booking system these days. As an ex captain the only time I tee'd off first was on Captains day and would never expect to be able to push in. Was happy with a car parking spot and the honour to be captain of the club. All those with problems with the old guard, get yourself on the committee, easier to change things from within and it sounds like some place would benefit from the odd change.


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Lot easier said than done getting on a committee in the closed shop type of clubs. With regards to queuing I find it amazing at the amount of places I have been to where there are backlogs on the 1st tee, mainly due to there tee times not being far enough apart and pay and play golfers also being squeezed in.


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## bladeplayer (Nov 11, 2013)

Strange bunch us golfers , 

If we have a captain who would take the right of way we wouldn't be inclined to give it to or offer it to him , 

If we have a captain that would never consider taking right away , we would be inclined to  offer it tho .. 

Kinda like life in general give respect to earn respect .. act as you wish to be treated


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## Old Skier (Nov 11, 2013)

I agree on the tee times, the amount of clubs who would benefit from looking at their timings. I held a very large event at a top club a few years ago and insisted on 10 min tee times. It allowed every 4 ball to get off and away and all groups got in within 4 hours. That was 40 x 4 balls. I hear the closed shop argument all the time, including from me when I rant about the county committee however if you don't keep trying things will only change when things hit crises point and then it's to late.


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## MadAdey (Nov 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The least a club's members can do is to recognise the Captain when he is on home turf. It's the one way that any member can actually say 'thank you' to the Captain so I actually don't see it as a captain's 'perk' of the job - more a 'thanks' from the members.
		
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I like that statement, very good way of showing your respect and thanks for the work that the captain is putting into the club.

Going back to the OP. As I said earlier it sounded like someone getting one back on you Robin. You must remember some of these old boys do not like change and see it as a criticism when you question the running of the clubs and try to put new ideas forward. Some would also probably not appreciate it coming from someone a relatively new member, even though you pay your fees and have a right to speak. 

I have both backed and criticised people in a position of responsibility within a club before on the forum. I just think there are some who like that little bit of power that they have, but hey that is my opinion.


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

The scenario I talked about earlier in this thread where there was 23 waiting on the 1st tee and another 4 ball on the way down to play was down to a few things. The stunning weather we were having at the time(middle of this summer) so everyone wanting to play, the golf club having stupid times between tee slots which I think was 6 mins and the fact that anyone could just walk into the pro shop and say any chance of a game and they just kept saying no problem we will get you out. I have checked with a mate of mine who dared to play on that fateful afternoon and he went out at 1.15pm and it was 7.20pm when he got back to the clubhouse. The closed shop argument is alive and well and I agree people should try and get it changed but it is all to often to no avail so people get cheesed off and either put up with it and moan to whoever can be bothered to listen or they clear off somewhere else where all to often it is just the same as where they have just left


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 11, 2013)

Have looked at The Rules at Kenilworth golf club, or just the first page.

It states 'No general play is permitted within a Club Competition' .

if it was a Club Competition which was quoted why was he on the course as he should have known better!!!


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

3offTheTee said:



			Have looked at The Rules at Kenilworth golf club, or just the first page.

It states 'No general play is permitted within a Club Competition' .

if it was a Club Competition which was quoted why was he on the course as he should have known better!!!
		
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We have what's called "extra medals", these are not full club medal days but where you can chose to enter or not on the day, as such no tee's are reserved.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2013)

I dont quite understand why someone playing a 'non reserved tee' medal should have priority on the course.  How are people supposed to know they are playing a medal?  If they are playing slower than others do they have priority so they can hold the course up?

My clubs's rules state the Captain has priority off the first tee.  I cant say I have ever heard anyone having a problem with this as it's in the rules you accept when joining.   Most members tend to invite the captain to tee off ahead anyhow, I have never experienced the Captain demanding the right.

It amuses me when people say things like "he would get one in the nuts from me if he did it"   Really!!

I can understand 'Fish' being put out by the rude way the Ex-Captain spoke to him but hey!   I think we have all had some rude jumped up idiot spouting rot at us (Especially in the services)  but should just ignore them and let it go in one and out the other.


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## blackpuddinmonster (Nov 11, 2013)

I'am new to this club malarky so my oppinion isn't based on much evidence, but personally i don't have a problem with this, or their reserved parking spot.
Our capt: is a decent bloke who seams to put an innordinant amount of time and effort into the post so what harm are a couple of "perks".
On the other hand Fish, i have to say you seam to be lumbered with a right spineless, ignorant, knob.
I think the next time i see Col, i'l get him a pint for a change.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 11, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont quite understand why someone playing a 'non reserved tee' medal should have priority on the course.  How are people supposed to know they are playing a medal?  If they are playing slower than others do they have priority so they can hold the course up?

My clubs's rules state the Captain has priority off the first tee.  I cant say I have ever heard anyone having a problem with this as it's in the rules you accept when joining.   Most members tend to invite the captain to tee off ahead anyhow, I have never experienced the Captain demanding the right.

It amuses me when people say things like "he would get one in the nuts from me if he did it"   Really!!

I can understand 'Fish' being put out by the rude way the Ex-Captain spoke to him but hey!   I think we have all had some rude jumped up idiot spouting rot at us (Especially in the services)  but should just ignore them and let it go in one and out the other. 

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To be honest in all the many times I have been in a group who have 'given way' during a round to a captains group - not *once *have I heard a grumble.  On the contrary, groups I've been in have always been *more *than delighted to recognise and cheerfully greet the Captain as to who he is, and happily - and usually with a lot of jesting and friendly leg-pulling going on, wave him and his playing companions through.  

And if we are on the 1st tee when Cap'n approaches, the call will go up 'Captain on the tee'.  Unless his tee time is booked he will always be offered the tee ahead of any and all waiting to tee off.  Usually declined 

Also when Captain enters the clubhouse or is met in the car park we always greet him with a "good morning Captain" type greeting - the least that we as members can do


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Give way to the captain? Is his time any more important than mine?  What a load off tosh.  If we had a captain and he said we should move aside then I would certainly tell him to sling it.  Nothing worse than going to a private members club and seeing the folk boot licking the captain.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			To be honest in all the many times I have been in a group who have 'given way' during a round to a captains group - not *once *have I heard a grumble.  On the contrary, groups I've been in have always been *more *than delighted to recognise and cheerfully greet the Captain as to who he is, and happily - and usually with a lot of jesting and friendly leg-pulling going on, wave him and his playing companions through.  

And if we are on the 1st tee when Cap'n approaches, the call will go up 'Captain on the tee'.  Unless his tee time is booked he will always be offered the tee ahead of any and all waiting to tee off.  Usually declined 

Also when Captain enters the clubhouse or is met in the car park we always greet him with a "good morning Captain" type greeting - the least that we as members can do 

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Here Here!!     Still does not excuse the rude ex-captain though.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Also when Captain enters the clubhouse or is met in the car park we always greet him with a "good morning Captain" type greeting - the least that we as members can do 

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better watch you dont come down with cherry blossom poisoning


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Give way to the captain? Is his time any more important than mine?  What a load off tosh.  If we had a captain and he said we should move aside then I would certainly tell him to sling it.  Nothing worse than going to a private members club and seeing the folk boot licking the captain.
		
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I do believe you have missed the point totally.

Thankfully some private clubs show respect to people who put their own time into helping their club as opposed to just "boot licking"


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			better watch you dont come down with cherry blossom poisoning
		
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Are you a member of a golf club ?


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you a member of a golf club ?
		
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The belfry. The deciding factor between the belfry and walmley was when I walked past a random bloke and said "morning pal"  you would have thought i'd poo'd on his lawn.  He was the captain and demanded I address him "Mr captain" .   I just laughed and walked away


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thankfully some private clubs show respect to people who put their own time into helping their club as opposed to just "boot licking"
		
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I dont believe in hierarchy. Everybody deserves the same respect at my golf club.  No fancy titles or reserved spaces there


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			The belfry. The deciding factor between the belfry and walmley was when I walked past a random bloke and said "morning pal"  you would have thought i'd poo'd on his lawn.  He was the captain and demanded I address him "Mr captain" .   I just laughed and walked away
		
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Sounds like a nice bloke


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## rosecott (Nov 11, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			This is why I would never be a member of a club with silly committees who think they are running Augusta National. I wouldn't let the queen tee off before me let alone a golf club captain.
		
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hovis said:



			Give way to the captain? Is his time any more important than mine?  What a load off tosh.  If we had a captain and he said we should move aside then I would certainly tell him to sling it.  Nothing worse than going to a private members club and seeing the folk boot licking the captain.
		
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Spot the connection.



Liverpoolphil said:



			I do believe you have missed the point totally.

Thankfully some private clubs show respect to people who put their own time into helping their club as opposed to just "boot licking"
		
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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sounds like a nice bloke

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When you think that the captains comments cost walmley 3 potential members.  I wonder how much per word that cost


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

:lol:

Belfry is perfect for you then !

Some people do more at other golf clubs and the captain does a lot of good work for golf clubs that enable them to keep functioning and for that they deserve respect

There will always be the odd few people that will act above their station regardless.


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			Sounds like a nice bloke

Click to expand...

 Love to meet him myself. Know what Hovis means though, the attitudes of some at the private clubs stinks TBH. I went to the Forest of Arden last year and everyone was nice as friendly. However I went to a course not to far from me which is a private club, it was a decent course but not great and met no end of idiots and general unfriendly folk.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



 Love to meet him myself. Know what Hovis means though, the attitudes of some at the private clubs stinks TBH. I went to the Forest of Arden last year and everyone was nice as friendly. However I went to a course not to far from me which is a private club, it was a decent course but not great and met no end of idiots and general unfriendly folk.
		
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That attitude isn't limited to just private golf clubs.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:lol:

Belfry is perfect for you then !

Some people do more at other golf clubs and the captain does a lot of good work for golf clubs that enable them to keep functioning and for that they deserve respect

There will always be the odd few people that will act above their station regardless.
		
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thats a fair point.  If I was captain I wouldnt have the goul to expect special treatment over others. I would even fore go my parking space.  but I cant tar all club captains with the same brush. I bet the majority are sounds blokes


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			thats a fair point.  If I was captain I wouldnt have the goul to expect special treatment over others. I would even fore go my parking space.  but I cant tar all club captains with the same brush. I bet the majority are sounds blokes
		
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I'm actually very sure that you will never be a captain of a golf club


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That attitude isn't limited to just private golf clubs.
		
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Maybe not but I have been to many places, Muni's, Resorts, Private and even places abroad. Guess where all the problems I have encounted are. Yep private clubs in the UK. Played at Joondalup in Perth without an ounce of trouble.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm actually very sure that you will never be a captain of a golf club
		
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You've got me sussed in 5 minutes. Good man


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Maybe not but I have been to many places, Muni's, Resorts, Private and even places abroad. Guess where all the problems I have encounted are. Yep private clubs in the UK. Played at Joondalup in Perth without an ounce of trouble.
		
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And I have played at many private clubs and not encountered many problems

Attitude problems appear in people regardless of what club they are a member of.

To tar the same brush onto private clubs just shows a grudge tbh


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Give way to the captain? Is his time any more important than mine?  What a load off tosh.  If we had a captain and he said we should move aside then I would certainly tell him to sling it.  Nothing worse than going to a private members club and seeing the folk boot licking the captain.
		
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Oh dear - this is a very disappointing post from a golfer

@hovis I fear that this suggests that you either know bu**er all about the traditions of golf and golf clubs, or couldn't care tuppence for them.  I rather hope the former is the case for at least then there is some hope for you


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			You've got me sussed in 5 minutes. Good man
		
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And thankfully I don't expect you to be a member of any club I join


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## arnieboy (Nov 11, 2013)

When we had a manual start sheet there was a slot reserved for the Captain but as soon as we went to on-line booking he had to get up early and book his slot like the rest of us!


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And I have played at many private clubs and not encountered many problems

Attitude problems appear in people regardless of what club they are a member of.

To tar the same brush onto private clubs just shows a grudge tbh
		
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Just speaking as I find no grudge at all. Have played at private clubs where no problem at all. But all the trouble I have had has been at private clubs in the UK


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Maybe not but I have been to many places, Muni's, Resorts, Private and even places abroad. Guess where all the problems I have encounted are. Yep private clubs in the UK. Played at Joondalup in Perth without an ounce of trouble.
		
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And then the said clubs have a AGM and say "i cant understand why we've lost money"  beu desert is the most unfriendly club I regularly play.  They lost 68k this tax year


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Just speaking as I find no grudge at all. Have played at private clubs where no problem at all. But all the trouble I have had has been at private clubs in the UK
		
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If you find that much trouble maybe it's not them ?

What "trouble" exactly is it you are finding ?


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you find that much trouble maybe it's not them ?

What "trouble" exactly is it you are finding ?
		
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By trouble I mean problems, general unfriendly folk, unwelcoming etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			By trouble I mean problems, general unfriendly folk, unwelcoming etc
		
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That's a factor in life - and have you really never seen that at other clubs ? I faced the exact thing at The Belfy


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh dear - this is a very disappointing post from a golfer

@hovis I fear that this suggests that you either know bu**er all about the traditions of golf and golf clubs, or couldn't care tuppence for them.  I rather hope the former is the case for at least then there is some hope for you 

Click to expand...

I dont care for golf traditions as such. When I play golf I treat and greet all golfers I meet with friendship and respect.  All are equal in my book and theres no room for a tiered system.  thats just MO and as I feel strongly against it I remain a member of a resort in order to avoid the above


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 11, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Here Here!!     Still does not excuse the rude ex-captain though.
		
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Absolutely not.  Ex-captains are just that - still may command some 'respect' from members for doing their stint.  However the courtesy we should show to our Club Captain is for the here and now, for the Captain is representing members today and for his term of office.  An ex-Captain using his previous status to 'demand' or 'seek' preference over any other member is out of order - an ex-captain is not only just that - he is also an ordinary member just like you or I.  I must say that I have not come across ex-captains trying this on.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And thankfully I don't expect you to be a member of any club I join
		
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Calm down mate.  Not slagging you off am i?


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's a factor in life - and have you really never seen that at other clubs ? I faced the exact thing at The Belfy
		
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We are going round in circles here. Please see my post number 93 to save me repeating myself I have been to the Belfry on numerous occasions and never had one single bit of a problem from staff or the people playing on the day


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Calm down mate.  Not slagging you off am i?
		
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I'm very calm - just glad that I'm a member at a club that is built on the traditions and respect of golf and understands the value a captain brings to a golf club and he is therefore afforded the respect his work does. 

Everyone maybe equal but some people do that extra little more than everyone else


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			I dont care for golf traditions as such. When I play golf I treat and greet all golfers I meet with friendship and respect.  All are equal in my book and theres no room for a tiered system.  thats just MO and as I feel strongly against it I remain a member of a resort in order to avoid the above
		
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You don't care for golf traditions as such?  Don't think we'd agree on much golf-wise then - if anything at all.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			We are going round in circles here. Please see my post number 93 to save me repeating myself I have been to the Belfry on numerous occasions and never had one single bit of a problem from staff or the people playing on the day
		
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And I'm saying that I have experienced rudeness at non private members golf clubs so it's not just private clubs that display the rudeness you have encountered 

So the brush cane be tarred at all golf clubs as opposed to just private ones.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm very calm - just glad that I'm a member at a club that is built on the traditions and respect of golf and understands the value a captain brings to a golf club and he is therefore afforded the respect his work does. 

Everyone maybe equal but some people do that extra little more than everyone else
		
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Absolutely with you 100% on every word of the above.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Everyone maybe equal but some people do that extra little more than everyone else
		
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and these people deserve a pat on the back and a massive thank you.  Not royalty treatment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			and these people deserve a pat on the back and a massive thank you.  Not royalty treatment.
		
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Who gives them royal treatment ? They get a car space and shown a bit of respect for their position.


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## MadAdey (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			I dont care for golf traditions as such. When I play golf I treat and greet all golfers I meet with friendship and respect.  All are equal in my book and theres no room for a tiered system.  thats just MO and as I feel strongly against it I remain a member of a resort in order to avoid the above
		
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you have made your choice from the looks of it then. But someone who is a captain of a club does deserve a level of respect for all the hard work that he puts in for the club, as do other hard working committee members that give up their own free time to keep golf clubs running.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Just speaking as I find no grudge at all. Have played at private clubs where no problem at all. But all the trouble I have had has been at private clubs in the UK
		
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The worst case of arrogance I have ever witnessed was at a proprietary club where play was disrupted by the proprietor taking his grandchildren for a ride round the course in his Range Rover.

Speak as you find; but I have rarely, if ever, in over 40 years come across unfriendly or pompous attitudes at members clubs,whereas at a number of proprietary clubs I have felt welcome only as long as I keep parting with my money.


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And I'm saying that I have experienced rudeness at non private members golf clubs so it's not just private clubs that display the rudeness you have encountered 

So the brush cane be tarred at all golf clubs as opposed to just private ones.
		
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As I said speak as you find. I have not had any issues at any clubs other than private ones. You clearly have so you can make a judgement on your own experiences as I can my own. Again as I said I have played at many private clubs that have been great but I have if you are going to come across any issues or problems then it is a private club in my case.


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## Ethan (Nov 11, 2013)

I think the captain should have the privilege of being invited to step forward onto the first, but should invariably decline with grace.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			As I said speak as you find. I have not had any issues at any clubs other than private ones. You clearly have so you can make a judgement on your own experiences as I can my own. Again as I said I have played at many private clubs that have been great but I have if you are going to come across any issues or problems then it is a private club in my case.
		
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So have you only ever met a rude golfer at a private club ? Never ever at any other type of club ?


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			you have made your choice from the looks of it then. But someone who is a captain of a club does deserve a level of respect for all the hard work that he puts in for the club, as do other hard working committee members that give up their own free time to keep golf clubs running.
		
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your asuming I dont respect the captain.  I unknowingly walked past the captain at walmey and said (with a big smile) " morning pal" and he shot me down.  For me you earn respect. Dressing a visitor down for saying " morning pal" doesnt go far on my respect gauge


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

MetalMickie said:



			The worst case of arrogance I have ever witnessed was at a proprietary club where play was disrupted by the proprietor taking his grandchildren for a ride round the course in his Range Rover.

Speak as you find; but I have rarely, if ever, in over 40 years come across unfriendly or pompous attitudes at members clubs,whereas at a number of proprietary clubs I have felt welcome only as long as I keep parting with my money.
		
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Arrogance no plain stupid most definitely. Why would someone do that though


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			your asuming I dont respect the captain.  I unknowingly walked past the captain at walmey and said (with a big smile) " morning pal" and he shot me down.  For me you earn respect. Dressing a visitor down for saying " morning pal" doesnt go far on my respect gauge
		
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And that's one person in how many thousand golf Capts out there ? 

Don't judge by one person


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So have you only ever met a rude golfer at a private club ? Never ever at any other type of club ?
		
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Correct


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Correct
		
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As very unbelievable that is I will take your word for it

I'm guessing everyone at your club is polite and not one rude person amongst them - must be one hell of a club ? Where do you play ?


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who gives them royal treatment ? They get a car space and shown a bit of respect for their position.
		
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Personly witnessed 
bar stool being given up
Parking spaces
being called mr captain
Clubs taken to their car
Given the first tee.

Theres a few more but i'm a slow typer.  May I also add that the chief of wm police is called by his first name when visiting stations


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And that's one person in how many thousand golf Capts out there ? 

Don't judge by one person
		
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from my other post you'll see I said " im sure most are good blokes"


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Personly witnessed 
bar stool being given up
Parking spaces
being called mr captain
Clubs taken to their car
Given the first tee.

Theres a few more but i'm a slow typer.  May I also add that the chief of wm police is called by his first name when visiting stations
		
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:lol:

Witnessed where ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Arrogance no plain stupid most definitely. Why would someone do that though
		
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I am afraid it is arrogance and that answers your question. He did it because as the owner he could, in his eyes, do what he liked without consequence.
Never seen anything like that from a club captain or president.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:lol:

Witnessed where ?
		
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walmley
maxstoke
beu desert


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

MetalMickie said:



			I am afraid it is arrogance and that answers your question. He did it because as the owner he could, in his eyes, do what he liked without consequence.
Never seen anything like that from a club captain or president.
		
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Why as an owner would he do something that could cause damage to his own course and potentially put loads of people off playing his venue again. Must be more to it than that. Not saying it is right of course not it is shocking. Not likely to see that anywhere ever again I would not have thought.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Well I will take your word for it for some of them 

At ours the Capt has a car park space and some people call him captain ( he doesn't demand it ) 

Did you ever play team sports ?


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well I will take your word for it for some of them 

At ours the Capt has a car park space and some people call him captain ( he doesn't demand it ) 

Did you ever play team sports ?
		
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Rugby and 6 man formation skydiving team.  I would say fishing too but whens that been a sport


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As very unbelievable that is I will take your word for it

I'm guessing everyone at your club is polite and not one rude person amongst them - must be one hell of a club ? Where do you play ?
		
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Not a member anywhere anymore as I am a full time student on a golf programme in the NW. The places I have had problems at though are:

Worksop GC - Lee Westwoods old stomping ground
Dore & Totley GC
Abbeydale GC
Buxton GC
Chilwell GC

There are more but I cant bring them to mind at the moment


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Rugby and 6 man formation skydiving team.  I would say fishing too but whens that been a sport
		
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What did you call the ref in rugby and your skipper in rugby ?


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Ref and gary


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

I think ill bow out now - I'm sure you don't understand the point of the captain at a golf club and I don't think it's worth anyone trying to explain it to you.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Why as an owner would he do something that could cause damage to his own course and potentially put loads of people off playing his venue again. Must be more to it than that. Not saying it is right of course not it is shocking. Not likely to see that anywhere ever again I would not have thought.
		
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I don't see that it would physically damage the course, no worse than a tractor. However, I agree that it is bad for customer relations but it was at a time when club memberships were full and his attitude was, I understand from the members, "if you don't like it b***er off and try to join somewhere else".

At least at members' clubs the captain usually only serves for one year.


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## Sid Rixon IV (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Ref and gary
		
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That's a relief!


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			The belfry. The deciding factor between the belfry and walmley was when I walked past a random bloke and said "morning pal"  you would have thought i'd poo'd on his lawn.  He was the captain and demanded I address him "Mr captain" .   I just laughed and walked away
		
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I am sure you fit right in at the Belfry.  You're their ideal member I would guess.


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## DAVEYBOY (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Ref and gary
		
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You make me chuckle Hover :rofl: Ref and Gary Haa ha


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## JustOne (Nov 11, 2013)




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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

MetalMickie said:



			I don't see that it would physically damage the course, no worse than a tractor. However, I agree that it is bad for customer relations but it was at a time when club memberships were full and his attitude was, I understand from the members, "if you don't like it b***er off and try to join somewhere else".

At least at members' clubs the captain usually only serves for one year.
		
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Right. Suspect he has had a big falling out with some of the members or pay and players and spat his dummy out to basically say i'll show you. Probably would do more damage than a tractor as he was probably getting his toe down and basically being an arse therefore churning everywhere up. Could not get away with that nowadays unless he wanted to run the place down to sell to developers. Yep at least Captains only serve for one year, shame if you get a good un but a mighty relief if you get a knob


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Not a member anywhere anymore as I am a full time student on a golf programme in the NW. The places I have had problems at though are:

Worksop GC - Lee Westwoods old stomping ground
Dore & Totley GC
Abbeydale GC
Buxton GC
Chilwell GC

There are more but I cant bring them to mind at the moment
		
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I have never heard of Chilwell but have probably played a total of 50 rounds at the others and all are excellent clubs full of nice people.  

Consequently, I am politely suggesting that you are the problem. You must be.  I hope they have tutorials on lessons, traditions and manners on whatever course you are doing.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I am sure you fit right in at the Belfry.  You're their ideal member I would guess.
		
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?
what is their ideal member


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I have never heard of Chilwell but have probably played a total of 50 rounds at the others and all are excellent clubs full of nice people.  

Consequently, I am politely suggesting that you are the problem. You must be.  I hope they have tutorials on lessons, traditions and manners on whatever course you are doing.
		
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I will politely suggest you are wrong


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			?
what is their ideal member
		
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Someone who doesn't give a [Mod Edit] about the traditions of golf and just coughs up the money.


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## DAVEYBOY (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			?
what is their ideal member
		
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Chinese business men


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			I will politely suggest you are wrong
		
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Must make you think though if you keep running into rude people but only at a certain type of club


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Someone who doesn't give a **** about the traditions of golf and just coughs up the money.
		
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....and doesn't mind being called "pal" by someone he has never met.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Someone who doesn't give a **** about the traditions of golf and just coughs up the money.
		
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Blimey That is me!   dont see the problem.  I hate the golf world thats plagued with pompus old moaning men.  But there's a reason why private clubs are taking a nose dive and resorts are cleaning up.  When you get established clubs such as beu desert loosing vast amounts of money...... That says alot.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

MetalMickie said:



			....and doesn't mind being called "pal" by someone he has never met.
		
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Yes because that's SO offensive


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

MetalMickie said:



			....and doesn't mind being called "pal" by someone he has never met.
		
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:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Blimey That is me!   dont see the problem.  I hate the golf world thats plagued with pompus old moaning men.  But there's a reason why private clubs are taking a nose dive and resorts are cleaning up.  When you get established clubs such as beu desert loosing vast amounts of money...... That says alot.
		
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Resorts are cash cows and get ripped apart by hackers and booze hounds 

All golf clubs are struggling not just private clubs.

But it's so lovely to see such prejudice about certain golfers is alive and well. 

You enjoy your resort. I'll enjoy my golf club with still respects the values and traditions of golf


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## Crow (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			This was my main gripe TBH Chris, not the unwritten rule itself, although I think those that felt the need to exercise it knowing members had been standing in a queue for 20 minutes or more are simply on a power trip with no thought of the general membership, which they will return to in 12 months!

For the ex-captain to confront me on behalf of the captain in his company in any manner and then expand on it at the 2nd tee when competing in a medal far outweighs the original offence, if indeed it can be called that!

*When they arrived on the 2nd tee and saw us still waiting, I pointed out that their handicap secretary who was on the green at the 2nd did not call us down!* Our 2nd is a courtesy hole, a 209yd par3 and when everyone is on the green you are requested to call down those on the tee and then putt out, they didn't, so it would seem that our committee members do not run by the same rules, written or unwritten that they like to preach when it suits only them!
		
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Apologies if this has been asked already but did the ex-Captain confront you before or after you'd pointed out the above to him?

I'm generally in favour of the "Captain's Privilege rule" but as has been said by many, it shouldn't be abused, and I've never seen it being abused.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Resorts are cash cows and get ripped apart by hackers and booze hounds 

All golf clubs are struggling not just private clubs.

But it's so lovely to see such prejudice about certain golfers is alive and well. 

You enjoy your resort. I'll enjoy my golf club with still respects the values and traditions of golf
		
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are you still here? Thought you were off.  Might be hacked to bits but my cash cow has great greens and drains so well it was the only club open durring the rains last winter.  300k spent on the derby and 180k spent on the pga this year. What has your cash cow spent on your course this year? Â£50 on a "captians parking" sign?


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## Andy808 (Nov 11, 2013)

I play with 2 past, the present captain and the last lady captain. Under no circumstances would they expect to or force their way through players waiting to tee off or to be let through once on the course. As captain they get a free years golf and free coffee at our place with the opportunity to play in a couple of pro-am comps during their year.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			are you still here? Thought you were off.  Might be hacked to bits but my cash cow has great greens and drains so well it was the only club open durring the rains last winter.  300k spent on the derby and 180k spent on the pga this year. What has your cash cow spent on your course this year? Â£50 on a "captians parking" sign
		
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Over a million on the new club house without the need it turn it into a resort with three courses in the top 100 in the country with greens Belfry could only dream off.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Blimey That is me!   dont see the problem.  I hate the golf world thats plagued with pompus old moaning men.  But there's a reason why private clubs are taking a nose dive and resorts are cleaning up.  When you get established clubs such as beu desert loosing vast amounts of money...... That says alot.
		
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No I think it is more general than that.

Just look at the number of proprietorial clubs that are currently for sale or have closed their doors forever.

Both types of club have their pluses and minuses and each will appeal to different "markets". For us as golfers it is a case of finding something we are comfortable with and not expecting all to be attracted to the same model.


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yes because that's SO offensive 

Click to expand...

It isn't offensive but it is over familiar and not exactly the height of manners.  

A bit like the roll eyes smilies that some of you are so fond of.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Over a million on the new club house without the need it turn it into a resort with three courses in the top 100 in the country with greens Belfry could only dream off.
		
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How many times have you held the ryder cup?


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## Fish (Nov 11, 2013)

Crow said:



			Apologies if this has been asked already but did the ex-Captain confront you before or after you'd pointed out the above to him?

I'm generally in favour of the "Captain's Privilege rule" but as has been said by many, it shouldn't be abused, and I've never seen it being abused.
		
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Before, mine was a response because he kind of started a personal agenda against me on the 2nd tee so I highlighted that committee members in front did not as is requested adhere to the courtesy hole ruling. 

Wasn't a great experience when in a medal to be accosted the way I was.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			How many times have you held the ryder cup?
		
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:lol:

Do you want to get the ruler out next


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## Crow (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			Before, mine was a response because he kind of started a personal agenda against me on the 2nd tee so I highlighted that committee members in front did not as is requested adhere to the courtesy hole ruling. 

Wasn't a great experience when in a medal to be accosted the way I was.
		
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Then I agree with you, he was well out of order.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			It isn't offensive but it is over familiar and not exactly the height of manners.  

A bit like the roll eyes smilies that some of you are so fond of.
		
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A bit like when some one questions why people start certain threads? 
We can't all be as amazing as the great Snelly:ears:


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:lol:

Do you want to get the ruler out next
		
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No way. I'll concede that one. I'm a grower not a shower


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Fish said:



			Before, mine was a response because he kind of started a personal agenda against me on the 2nd tee so I highlighted that committee members in front did not as is requested adhere to the courtesy hole ruling. 

Wasn't a great experience when in a medal to be accosted the way I was.
		
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Have you filed a complaint ? Maybe look to bring it up at the AGM . His sort of attitude shouldn't be allowed


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			How many times have you held the ryder cup?
		
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Does the Belfry even have a captain?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



 

Does the Belfry even have a captain?
		
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They have a few "pals"


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Must make you think though if you keep running into rude people but only at a certain type of club
		
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Not really because I have played at lots of private members clubs with any problem whatsoever which I have repeatedly said throughout.


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			How many times have you held the ryder cup?
		
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Did you really just type that :rofl:


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



 

Does the Belfry even have a captain?
		
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no. I got him


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## Snelly (Nov 11, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			A bit like when some one questions why people start certain threads? 
We can't all be as amazing as the great Snelly:ears:
		
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Erudite and quick witted as ever Pin Seeker.  Off you go, back to the Ignore list.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They have a few "pals"
		
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:whoo:


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## Hobbit (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			How many times have you held the ryder cup?
		
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And that has what to do with this discussion?

Bet my dad is bigger than your dad...


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Erudite and quick witted as ever Pin Seeker.  Off you go, back to the Ignore list.
		
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Aaaaaaawwwwww man,that's me crying myself to sleep tonight
Do me a favour Pal & keep me on it this time :thup:


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			And that has what to do with this discussion?

Bet my dad is bigger than your dad...

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he said the belfry could only dream of good greens.  Cant imagine the ryder cup being on crap green.

and my dad would whoop your dads ass. He does origami dont you know


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			How many times have you held the ryder cup?
		
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I think you just lost the argument.


A fair bit of inverted snobbery on here, I always think that is worse then proper snobbery.
If you said Chief Executive Officer, Convener or Managing Director instead of Captain do you think that may change the tunnel vision.


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## User20205 (Nov 11, 2013)

After recent experience, hosting the Ryder cup would be a reason not to play a course. I think 'held' should be substituted for 'bought' in every case post 1981. 

I've no problem with the captains privilege, I'd have an issue with any captain that abused it. Based on the work of our last captain, he's entitled to every perk he can get.


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

therod said:



			After recent experience, hosting the Ryder cup would be a reason not to play a course. I think 'held' should be substituted for 'bought' in every case post 1981.
		
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I think the venue would still need good foundations to host such event but you can bet your bottom dolar that alot of brown envelopes change hands


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			I think the venue would still need good foundations to host such event but you can bet your bottom dolar that alot of brown envelopes change hands
		
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Do not get a lot of the negativity towards the Belfry. What do you pay for your membership and what does that entitle you to if you do not mind me asking.


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## GB72 (Nov 11, 2013)

I was interested in the comparison to team sports earlier which, in my experience are the opposite of golf. When I was in charge of a rugby team I dropped myself if there were too many players available in my position. My brother is club captain of his local cricket club and, again, drops himself if there are too many players or fills in any gaps for any team that is short. I suppose the counter argument could be that the captain should defer his interests in favour of the members rather than receive perks (just playing devils advocate a bit here)


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Do not get a lot of the negativity towards the Belfry. What do you pay for your membership and what does that entitle you to if you do not mind me asking.
		
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I'm a 5 day member of the pga and derby for Â£950 (no joining fee) and you ger a free 4 ball voucher for the brab that I sold for Â£200. So Â£750 for me.  From next year brabazon membership is starting but I dread to think of how expensive it would be.  And as for the negativity... When anything in life gets put on a pedestall folk want to knock it off


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## chrisd (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			For me you earn respect.
		
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Thereby shows today's values!

Most people would show respect to everyone unless they did some thing to lose it, at least that's whist my generation were taught!


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

GB72 said:



			I was interested in the comparison to team sports earlier which, in my experience are the opposite of golf. When I was in charge of a rugby team I dropped myself if there were too many players available in my position. My brother is club captain of his local cricket club and, again, drops himself if there are too many players or fills in any gaps for any team that is short. I suppose the counter argument could be that the captain should defer his interests in favour of the members rather than receive perks (just playing devils advocate a bit here)
		
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thats a good argument


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## hovis (Nov 11, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Thereby shows today's values!

Most people would show respect to everyone unless they did some thing to lose it, at least that's whist my generation were taught!
		
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Still think respect is earnt.  However, I think everyone deserves manners and hospitality until its earnt.


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## Old Skier (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Personly witnessed 
 May I also add that the chief of wm police is called by his first name when visiting stations
		
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could be why he has a problem with discipline


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## chrisd (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			Still think respect is earnt.
		
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I think for most of us, that leaves you totally out of kilter with the general membership of private clubs!

By the way, has The Belfry got a tattoo parlour yet?


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## In_The_Rough (Nov 11, 2013)

hovis said:



			I'm a 5 day member of the pga and derby for Â£950 (no joining fee) and you ger a free 4 ball voucher for the brab that I sold for Â£200. So Â£750 for me.  From next year brabazon membership is starting but I dread to think of how expensive it would be.  And as for the negativity... When anything in life gets put on a pedestall folk want to knock it off
		
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That is not bad at all really. When I was a member at a private club it was Â£1100 joining fee and Â£850 a year membership. I did not really get my money's worth due to course closures and the fact that they had this set date when the course was going on temp greens and tees regardless of the weather. First Monday after bonfire night that was it and it lasted right through to the end of March so after 2 years I told them I was off and that was that. Made a few friends and contacts but it was a really set in the ways cliquey club and I would never go back or pay to play there as what they charge Â£45 for a round is a rip off really. I just pay and play now especially with the weather conditions if the courses locally are shut or waterlogged no skin off my nose I will go to the range. I think the future for golf in the UK especially will become more resort orientated and pay and play based or reward schemes like DeVere and Marriott etc. Does you membership get you price reductions on food or drink or use of the leisure facilities at the Belfry


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 11, 2013)

Wow what a contentious thread. Some interesting points. From personal experience I've never seen any club captain at my club insist on being called "Mr Captain" insist on playing through or insist on a seat in the 19th. To some degree or another all have worked hard in their year in office and moved the club forward. 

I have no issues with them getting a reserved parking bay for three years (vice, current and ex captain ) and getting their subs paid for those periods. That seems reasonable recompense for a difficult and time consuming role. All have been extremely approachable, and none has ever (to my knowledge) had any airs and graces and insisted on pushing to the front of the queue on a busy first tee. Would I be annoyed if it happened. Yes as it goes and I would question it. Fortunately I don't see it happening and the next incumbent is very unlikely to test this either


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## Odvan (Nov 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What did you call the ref in rugby and your skipper in rugby ?
		
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hovis said:



			Ref and gary
		
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:clap::cheers: :ears:

Blimey, what a thread.

With my memory the way it is, forgive me if I haven't remembered it all to the letter but the OP is centred on two different things....the captains rule AND the actions of ex-captain?

The captain hasn't himself approached the OP and challenged the OP as to his 'serious breach' but the ex-captain right? So, either the Captain didn't have the gonads to be polite himself on the second tee and mention it or he's mentioned/moaned about it whilst on the first. Either way, it seems that he wasn't as bothered as the ex-captain whom you seem to have offended more...?

For me, once you've tee'd, you've tee'd and your round is underway. As I say, if my memory has served me well I can only assume that the ex-captain is the one that has instigated the ill-feeling for 'do you know who I was and am now playing with' reasons and perhaps because you're Fish, the man who strives for a better place to play and contributes both negative and positive feedback to the running of the Club as a member is entitled to do.

In summary and regardless of whether anything I've written is factually wrong; Fish - it's time to look for a new Club as this has grated you somewhat and perhaps it will sour your future experiences of the place? If it doesn't/won't then simply crack on and enjoy your golf, ignoring those that may stop you from enjoying what you love doing.

And Hovis...:thup:


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 11, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wow what a contentious thread. Some interesting points. From personal experience I've never seen any club captain at my club insist on being called "Mr Captain" insist on playing through or insist on a seat in the 19th. To some degree or another all have worked hard in their year in office and moved the club forward. 

I have no issues with them getting a reserved parking bay for three years (vice, current and ex captain ) and getting their subs paid for those periods. That seems reasonable recompense for a difficult and time consuming role. All have been extremely approachable, and none has ever (to my knowledge) had any airs and graces and insisted on pushing to the front of the queue on a busy first tee. Would I be annoyed if it happened. Yes as it goes and I would question it. Fortunately I don't see it happening and the next incumbent is very unlikely to test this either
		
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The next incumbent will definitely object to being called "Mr. Captain" though


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 11, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The next incumbent will definitely object to being called "Mr. Captain" though 

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Fair point. I know Anthea well and she won't like "Lady Captain" either


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## Fish (Nov 12, 2013)

Odvan said:



			:clap::cheers: :ears:

Blimey, what a thread.

With my memory the way it is, forgive me if I haven't remembered it all to the letter but the OP is centred on two different things....the captains rule AND the actions of ex-captain?

The captain hasn't himself approached the OP and challenged the OP as to his 'serious breach' but the ex-captain right? So, either the Captain didn't have the gonads to be polite himself on the second tee and mention it or he's mentioned/moaned about it whilst on the first. Either way, it seems that he wasn't as bothered as the ex-captain whom you seem to have offended more...?

For me, once you've tee'd, you've tee'd and your round is underway. As I say, if my memory has served me well I can only assume that the ex-captain is the one that has instigated the ill-feeling for 'do you know who I was and am now playing with' reasons and perhaps because you're Fish, the man who strives for a better place to play and contributes both negative and positive feedback to the running of the Club as a member is entitled to do.

In summary and regardless of whether anything I've written is factually wrong; Fish - it's time to look for a new Club as this has grated you somewhat and perhaps it will sour your future experiences of the place? If it doesn't/won't then simply crack on and enjoy your golf, ignoring those that may stop you from enjoying what you love doing.

And Hovis...:thup:
		
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Pretty much spot on :thup:

Unlike others that find constant fault and you only hear them moaning, I do offer praise when its due and I do put in writing the positives results I've come across when things have changed or been addressed, as such I have as much right to complain about things I don't agree with or situations that I have suffered from but, it would seem that from the comments of the ex-captain and former HS, who is still a committee member on match & comps, those observations are thrown in your face when they believe you (me) have breached an unknown and unwritten rule!

I have no axes to grind with any captains, this was more about not knowing a tradition or an unwritten rule, being challenged whilst in a medal comp on the 2nd tee by an ex-captain who expanded on his comments unnecessarily, I'm aware of the hours and time they give up, most if not all are usually retired or semi-retired so have more time but from some of the replies it seems that in some cases that time and dedication is rewarded quite well.

I have been around only 3 captains due to being new to the sport, the first was on his way out as I joined in winter, last years captain was excellent but this year it seems it has gone back to the 'old guard' and the current VC is of that stock also, when I see an ex-captains match and they all have their green ex-captains blazers on, you can clearly see a pattern of who they are and it becomes obvious that you could name a few captains of the future by that observation.  

I really like the course, I have built up some good friendships in the 2.5 years which was hard arriving on your own, so, it will be a tough decision to leave but it is very much a possibility and enquiries have been made over the last few weeks and this latest situation has kind of nudged it forward a little.


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## MadAdey (Nov 12, 2013)

Fish said:



			I really like the course, I have built up some good friendships in the 2.5 years which was hard arriving on your own, so, it will be a tough decision to leave but it is very much a possibility and enquiries have been made over the last few weeks and this latest situation has kind of nudged it forward a little.
		
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It would be a shame if you had to move clubs just because of a few idiots within yours. Problem is no matter where you play you will always have people like this that sit on committees and your someone that is not frightened to question them if you are not happy. Been there, done that, got on the receiving end of a lot of angry people. :mmm:


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## ArnoldArmChewer (Nov 12, 2013)

GB72 said:



			It was me who posted about this a couple of years ago. At my old club the captain had the right to jump any queue on the first tee. In my case our 3 balk had been queuing for about 40 minutes in the cold when the captain exerted his privilege to tee off ahead with a mixed 4 ball. We did explain that one of our group was short on time to which he informed us that he would try not to hold us up too much. That was the last straw and I left the club at the end of that year.
		
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That reminds me of the scene in brave heart where the sheriff claims 'prima nochtra' (first night?) with a newly we'd girl, I do believe he lost his head after it!!


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## El Bandito (Nov 12, 2013)

Cor blimey. I don't know if we have a 'Captain's Privilege' at my club. My suspicion is that the unwritten rule should be, "it is traditional to offer the Captain the chance to go off first and for him to acknowledge the gesture and refuse". Hopefully, this should foster a great environment of mutual respect.
As to the OP, the ex-captain on the second tee was, in my opinion, rude and arrogant. If he had a point to make, the a quiet word in private after the round might have been appropriate - but only in terms of letting you know about the tradition with a smile and a wink. Ruining your concentration was, IMO unnecessary and not constructive.

Fish, I suspect many of us come across the odd member who is, frankly, a bit of a pillock. I would not let it drive you away from a course and club that on the whole, you enjoy.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			Still think respect is earnt.  However, I think everyone deserves manners and hospitality until its earnt.
		
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Except @hovis - I don't believe that any one individual is in any position to decide whether or not another (the captain) has earned the respect accorded to him by others.  If you choose to take a self-centred 'well he hasn't done anything for me' view then you are taking a rather narrow view I would suggest about the grounds upon which individuals are recognised for their efforts. Just because *you * don't know of any way in which you have 'benefited' by or from the actions of an individual doesn't mean that he doesn't merit your respect.

Unfortunately UK society is ever more populated by those whose only real interest or care is in themselves - as manifested by such as the 'what's in it for me' or 'what's he/she done for me that I should care' attitude.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 12, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Except @hovis - I don't believe that any one individual is in any position to decide whether or not another (the captain) has earned the respect accorded to him by others.  If you choose to take a self-centred 'well he hasn't done anything for me' view then you are taking a rather narrow view I would suggest about the grounds upon which individuals are recognised for their efforts. Just because *you * don't know of any way in which you have 'benefited' by or from the actions of an individual doesn't mean that he doesn't merit your respect.

Unfortunately UK society is ever more populated by those whose only real interest or care is in themselves - as manifested by such as the 'what's in it for me' or 'what's he/she done for me that I should care' attitude.
		
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Yes!   I go with that. :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Except @hovis - I don't believe that any one individual is in any position to decide whether or not another (the captain) has earned the respect accorded to him by others.  If you choose to take a self-centred 'well he hasn't done anything for me' view then you are taking a rather narrow view I would suggest about the grounds upon which individuals are recognised for their efforts. Just because *you * don't know of any way in which you have 'benefited' by or from the actions of an individual doesn't mean that he doesn't merit your respect.

Unfortunately UK society is ever more populated by those whose only real interest or care is in themselves - as manifested by such as the 'what's in it for me' or 'what's he/she done for me that I should care' attitude.
		
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Spot on


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 12, 2013)

hovis said:



			thats a good argument
		
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Except the Captain of a golf club is not really part of a 'team' in the way that the captain of an amateur sports team is.  Use a different comparison - the officer in charge of the platoon. Does the officer relinquish his responsibilities to lead his platoon on a dangerous mission if a squaddie from another platoon desperately wants to go on the mission and numbers are fixed?  I think not as the officer has an absolute responsibility - he has earned and been given that responsibility - he cannot just relinquish it - and he is not expected to do so.

Where a golf club captain may stand down for other members is where he has an invitation to play in a competition home or away - and he may decline to play in it and recommend another member to play on his behalf - representing the club.  That's where comparison with sports team captain is more valid I think.


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## Hobbit (Nov 12, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Except @hovis - I don't believe that any one individual is in any position to decide whether or not another (the captain) has earned the respect accorded to him by others.  If you choose to take a self-centred 'well he hasn't done anything for me' view then you are taking a rather narrow view I would suggest about the grounds upon which individuals are recognised for their efforts. Just because *you * don't know of any way in which you have 'benefited' by or from the actions of an individual doesn't mean that he doesn't merit your respect.

Unfortunately UK society is ever more populated by those whose only real interest or care is in themselves - as manifested by such as the 'what's in it for me' or 'what's he/she done for me that I should care' attitude.
		
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SocketRocket said:



			Yes!   I go with that. :thup:
		
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Liverpoolphil said:



			Spot on
		
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'Recognise' and respect the office of Captain. The level of respect you give the individual may be more or less depending on the character...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 12, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			'Recognise' and respect the office of Captain. The level of respect you give the individual may be more or less depending on the character...
		
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I would still respect the office of Captain whether or not I personally liked the Captain or not - as said - it's not really my place to pass such judgements on an individual based upon my experience.  Some of our Captains I have 'liked' more than others - I may well have got those I 'liked' less completely wrong - so I don;t go around 'dissing' them.


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## Foxholer (Nov 12, 2013)

This 'tradition' was once imposed on our swindle and it cost the Captain dearly - 16 pints! He didn't make that mistake again!

I think it's Ok, if he's 'entertaining' outsiders, to ask if he can jump the queue, but to expect it every time or where it's not going to gain anything is ridiculous.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 12, 2013)

Knowing quite a few Captains over the years my observations are....
The ones that you think will make really good captains seldom do and the ones you think will be a disaster darling are generally quite good.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 12, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			'Recognise' and respect the office of Captain. The level of respect you give the individual may be more or less depending on the character...
		
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I think you should 'Recognise and Respect' the 'Office' of Captain, the current incumbent is holding that office and as such the respect it deserves.   A bit like a commissioned officer in the Armed Services.  You salute the commission he holds and not the individual.


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## chrisd (Nov 12, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Knowing quite a few Captains over the years my observations are....
The ones that you think will make really good captains seldom do and the ones you think will be a disaster darling are generally quite good.
		
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Having seen about 15 go through our club, that's pretty spot on Doon!


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## bluewolf (Nov 12, 2013)

My view on this is simple.
I would happily refer to the Captain as Mr. Captain, and also offer him the privilege of the first tee. Right up to the point where he demanded those concessions.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 12, 2013)

I was always taught respect has to be earned. Fortunately my club has been very lucky and each and every captain both when we were inside the race course and since we moved to our current home, that have held the post when I've been a member have worked hard to earn that and not just assumed it comes as part of the package. Not to say I haven't disagreed with some decisions and been vocal in my opposition but those captains dealt with my points in a courteous manner. That is how respect is earned


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## Vice (Nov 12, 2013)

Maybe the actual captain didn't give a toss and the ex captain was just being a douche...?



Odvan said:



			:clap::cheers: :ears:

Blimey, what a thread.

With my memory the way it is, forgive me if I haven't remembered it all to the letter but the OP is centred on two different things....the captains rule AND the actions of ex-captain?

The captain hasn't himself approached the OP and challenged the OP as to his 'serious breach' but the ex-captain right? So, either the Captain didn't have the gonads to be polite himself on the second tee and mention it or he's mentioned/moaned about it whilst on the first. Either way, it seems that he wasn't as bothered as the ex-captain whom you seem to have offended more...?

For me, once you've tee'd, you've tee'd and your round is underway. As I say, if my memory has served me well I can only assume that the ex-captain is the one that has instigated the ill-feeling for 'do you know who I was and am now playing with' reasons and perhaps because you're Fish, the man who strives for a better place to play and contributes both negative and positive feedback to the running of the Club as a member is entitled to do.

In summary and regardless of whether anything I've written is factually wrong; Fish - it's time to look for a new Club as this has grated you somewhat and perhaps it will sour your future experiences of the place? If it doesn't/won't then simply crack on and enjoy your golf, ignoring those that may stop you from enjoying what you love doing.

And Hovis...:thup:
		
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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			I think you should *'Recognise and Respect' the 'Office' of Captain, *the current incumbent is holding that office and as such the respect it deserves.   A bit like a commissioned officer in the Armed Services.  You salute the commission he holds and not the individual.
		
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Absolutely...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 12, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			My view on this is simple.
I would happily refer to the Captain as *Mr. Captain*, and also offer him the privilege of the first tee. Right up to the point where he demanded those concessions.
		
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Mr Captain Sir!


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## bluewolf (Nov 12, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Mr Captain Sir! 

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Oh no, that's a step too far.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 12, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Oh no, that's a step too far. 

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I think not Sir!


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## SocketRocket (Nov 12, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



*I was always taught respect has to be earned*. Fortunately my club has been very lucky and each and every captain both when we were inside the race course and since we moved to our current home, that have held the post when I've been a member have worked hard to earn that and not just assumed it comes as part of the package. Not to say I haven't disagreed with some decisions and been vocal in my opposition but those captains dealt with my points in a courteous manner. That is how respect is earned
		
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I dont agree with this thinking Homer.  My belief is that people should always be respected unless they prove to you they are not worthy of your respect.


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## bluewolf (Nov 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont agree with this thinking Homer.  My belief is that people should always be respected unless they prove to you they are not worthy of your respect.
		
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 Would agree with this. :thup:


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## CMAC (Nov 12, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



*I was always taught respect has to be earned*. Fortunately my club has been very lucky and each and every captain both when we were inside the race course and since we moved to our current home, that have held the post when I've been a member have worked hard to earn that and not just assumed it comes as part of the package. Not to say I haven't disagreed with some decisions and been vocal in my opposition but those captains dealt with my points in a courteous manner. That is how respect is earned
		
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SocketRocket said:



			I dont agree with this thinking Homer.  My belief is that people should always be respected unless they prove to you they are not worthy of your respect.
		
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Semantics! I'm pretty sure you both feel and are saying the same thing :thup:


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			I dont agree with this thinking Homer.  My belief is that people should always be respected unless they prove to you they are not worthy of your respect.
		
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The point I am trying to make is I will treat everyone with the respect they deserve as an individual and would hope they would do the same of me BUT respect shouldn't just be assumed as part and parcel of a position.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 12, 2013)

CMAC said:



			Semantics! I'm pretty sure you both feel and are saying the same thing :thup:
		
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Not trying to be pedantic here but I feel its different to say 'if you want my respect you have to earn it first'  rather than 'I will respect you as a person unless you prove otherwise'.  Well! unless you are a Banker, Energy Firm Executive or Police Federation Officer


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 12, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Oh no, that's a step too far. 

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A bit like Madam Chairperson


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## ger147 (Nov 12, 2013)

Our captain is called Bill, I call him Bill, everyone else I've seen/heard talking to him calls him Bill.

He's a great captain and knows almost everyone by name.  No-one calls him Mr Captain.


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## bluewolf (Nov 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Well! unless you are a Banker, Energy Firm Executive or Police Federation Officer 

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Or a council estate dwelling, unemployed parent of 4.


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## chrisd (Nov 12, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I was always taught respect has to be earned.
		
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I totally disagree Homer. I treat everyone with respect, as I was taught, in that way they can only lose it!


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## blackpuddinmonster (Nov 12, 2013)

ger147 said:



			Our captain is called Bill, I call him Bill, everyone else I've seen/heard talking to him calls him Bill.

He's a great captain and knows almost everyone by name.  No-one calls him Mr Captain.
		
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I call ours "Mr. Captain Colin sir", whilst tugging my non existant forlock.
He calls me t*t.


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## Laka (Nov 12, 2013)

so for an foreigner,,, what is the normal priviliges a captain has?  I guess the captain has obligations as well?

I dont think we have captains role in sweden as yours,,, there is different comittees and voted chairman for 2- 3years.

Everybody book there teetimes on internet or by phone, if you dont have any teetime and show up,,is it fully booked, then you cant play whatever position you have in the club, furthermore,, we never have quees on 1 tee, everybody has there teetime and there is never any fuzz around 1st tee


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## chrisd (Nov 12, 2013)

ger147 said:



			Our captain is called Bill, I call him Bill, everyone else I've seen/heard talking to him calls him Bill.

He's a great captain and knows almost everyone by name.  No-one calls him Mr Captain.
		
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I've only ever called ours by his Christian name, although I did go down on blended knee ( for this years incumbent ) and kissed his ringed finger, but then I do know him very well and it went down in the spirit it was done!


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## CMAC (Nov 12, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I've only ever called ours by his Christian name, although I did go down on blended knee ( for this years incumbent ) and kissed his ringed finger, but then I do know him very well and it went down in the spirit it was done!
		
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you kissed his ring..........you went down.......you were on your knees.........

what kind of a club is this










:ears:


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## chrisd (Nov 12, 2013)

CMAC said:



			you kissed his ring..........you went down.......you were on your knees.........

what kind of a club is this

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One where a bit of fun can be had!  It's the dodgy handshake I'm having most trouble with!


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## hovis (Nov 12, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The point I am trying to make is I will treat everyone with the respect they deserve as an individual and would hope they would do the same of me BUT respect shouldn't just be assumed as part and parcel of a position.
		
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couldnt agree more homer


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## MadAdey (Nov 12, 2013)

IMO I think people are getting mixed up between 2 types of respect. There is the respect for the title of Captain and actual respect for the person them self. Being in the RAF I have had to work for some right prats. Problem is they outranked me so I showed the required respect for their rank, but that did not mean I actually had any respect for the person holding it.

Should the position of Captain be shown respect.............YES
Does that mean the person holding that title automatically gains my respect............NO


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			IMO I think people are getting mixed up between 2 types of respect. There is the respect for the title of Captain and actual respect for the person them self. Being in the RAF I have had to work for some right prats. Problem is they outranked me so I showed the required respect for their rank, but that did not mean I actually had any respect for the person holding it.

Should the position of Captain be shown respect.............YES
Does that mean the person holding that title automatically gains my respect............NO
		
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I can echo that after 22 years in the RAF

Respected the rank but not the person holding it !


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## chrisd (Nov 12, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			IMO I think people are getting mixed up between 2 types of respect. There is the respect for the title of Captain and actual respect for the person them self. Being in the RAF I have had to work for some right prats. Problem is they outranked me so I showed the required respect for their rank, but that did not mean I actually had any respect for the person holding it.

Should the position of Captain be shown respect.............YES
Does that mean the person holding that title automatically gains my respect............NO
		
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But the point is Adey, we all agree that the position of Captain, forces or otherwise, is respected ( by most of us ) but, do you respect initially the person holding it until he proves, to you, he isn't worthy of your respect or, do you treat him without respect until he proves, to you, that he's worth respecting?

Subtle difference on the face of it but not in reality


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## bluewolf (Nov 12, 2013)

chrisd said:



			But the point is Adey, we all agree that the position of Captain, forces or otherwise, is respected ( by most of us ) but, do you respect initially the person holding it until he proves, to you, he isn't worthy of your respect or, do you treat him without respect until he proves, to you, that he's worth respecting?

Subtle difference on the face of it but not in reality
		
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Respect the position, until the person proves themselves unworthy of holding it..


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## MadAdey (Nov 12, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Respect the position, until the person proves themselves unworthy of holding it..
		
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My thoughts exactly. I will show respect to the person becoming Captain when he takes over the position, just purely for the fact that he is willing to give up a lot of his own time money to help my club. Which is more than I do, so yes he does get my respect for taking on an unpaid position within the club. If he gets a couple of perks for it then so be it, but he would soon loose my respect if he did come up to the first tee without good reason and enforce his right to play. Or did anything to annoy me and make me think otherwise.

My question is................If you do not believe that he should be automatically shown respect for becoming Captain, then what would he have to do to get your respect?


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## Bratty (Nov 12, 2013)

I'm Captain at Westerham, and although I do a fair bit, we're a proprietary club, so I don't have much standing anyway! I would be remarkably uncomfortable with "captain's privilege" even if it was a private members club, so there's no way I'd do it at Westerham.

Would I want to? I don't think so. I want to enjoy my golf, and worrying about whether people were annoyed with me stealing a march on the tee would not do much for my game.

I frequently greet guests as they pass me in the car park on their way to the pro-shop and chat to them if they're coming off the course to check they've had a good day at the club. Have spoken to people about joining and even gone back out for a few more holes with strangers when they say they are thinking of joining.

I am known as Sir by my Men's Team Organiser, which proved to be interesting when he used that as a title in comms to the away team, who suddenly thought someone really important was playing! Once they met me though, they soon realised...

And finally, to address MadAdey's question, it's not something I ever thought about. I just assume that I'll be myself and that'll be good enough for some and not for others. Can't please everyone all the time, but as long as I don't change as a person because I'm a Captain, then can't see why anyone should be unhappy who wasn't unhappy beforehand.


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## MadAdey (Nov 12, 2013)

chrisd said:



			But the point is Adey, we all agree that the position of Captain, forces or otherwise, is respected ( by most of us ) but, do you respect initially the person holding it until he proves, to you, he isn't worthy of your respect or, do you treat him without respect until he proves, to you, that he's worth respecting?

Subtle difference on the face of it but not in reality
		
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I see where you are coming from Chris. I would give both the title he holds and the person respect initially until he proves otherwise. If you do it the other way around then he might not ever do anything over the year really earns your respect, so then you end up without any respect for the person that has just devoted a year to helping your club for free.


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## bluewolf (Nov 12, 2013)

Bratty said:



			I'm Captain at Westerham, and although I do a fair bit, we're a proprietary club, so I don't have much standing anyway! I would be remarkably uncomfortable with "captain's privilege" even if it was a private members club, so there's no way I'd do it at Westerham.

Would I want to? I don't think so. I want to enjoy my golf, and worrying about whether people were annoyed with me stealing a march on the tee would not do much for my game.

I frequently greet guests as they pass me in the car park on their way to the pro-shop and chat to them if they're coming off the course to check they've had a good day at the club. Have spoken to people about joining and even gone back out for a few more holes with strangers when they say they are thinking of joining.

I am known as Sir by my Men's Team Organiser, which proved to be interesting when he used that as a title in comms to the away team, who suddenly thought someone really important was playing! Once they met me though, they soon realised...

And finally, to address MadAdey's question, it's not something I ever thought about. I just assume that I'll be myself and that'll be good enough for some and not for others. Can't please everyone all the time, but as long as I don't change as a person because I'm a Captain, then can't see why anyone should be unhappy who wasn't unhappy beforehand.
		
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And you Sir, would have my respect all year..:thup:


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## MadAdey (Nov 12, 2013)

Like others on this thread I have to agree that this sums up one of the problems in the world today. People just do not automatically show respect for others, well not until they have found out what they can do for them. 

Take the hoodies on the street corner, they have no respect for anyone, let alone the people in authority like the police. Why is that? Because they are not born into a society that doesn't show enough respect for other people. That is just my opinion and I am not try to compare anyone on here to scumbags that hang round street corners terrifying people, I am just using it as an example.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 12, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Or a council estate dwelling, unemployed parent of 4. 

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Of course if they prefer not to work


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## Scrindle (Nov 12, 2013)

I wouldn't know my captain from anyone else at my club to be honest.

We book tee times with the pro-shop who ask how many will be in your group and allocate tee time segments accordingly. If it's busy and you miss your tee time it's tough basically. Generally slower groups are very good at waving people behind them through once underway.

The only time I have experienced unbearable waiting times on the tee has been when stuck behind a particular 40 strong society group, who like to visit the club occasionally dressed in ridiculous atire (usually after they have been asked by the pro shop not to wear some kind of theatrical animal mask or similar out on the course) riding around in golf carts, arsing around and generally playing slowly without any care in the world for other groups playing behind them. Last time I came across this group a chap in a Hawaiian shirt casually said to the two of us as we caught up to them on the tee, 'there's another 8 groups of us ahead so good luck getting through'.

I just went home in the end and now whenever I book a tee time on a Saturday or Sunday I make a point of asking whether there are any societies that have booked. If there are I either book a time before they're due to start or I don't bother playing.


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## chrisd (Nov 12, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			I see where you are coming from Chris. I would give both the title he holds and the person respect initially until he proves otherwise. If you do it the other way around then he might not ever do anything over the year really earns your respect, so then you end up without any respect for the person that has just devoted a year to helping your club for free.
		
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Exactly the answer I expected from you .... But sadly wouldn't have got from some of the other posters!


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## MadAdey (Nov 12, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Exactly the answer I expected from you .... But sadly wouldn't have got from some of the other posters!
		
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I will take that as a compliment then.....:cheers:


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## chrisd (Nov 12, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			I will take that as a compliment then.....:cheers:
		
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Absolutely a compliment Adey!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 12, 2013)

MadAdey said:



			I see where you are coming from Chris. I would give both the title he holds and the person respect initially until he proves otherwise. If you do it the other way around then he might not ever do anything over the year really earns your respect, so then you end up without any respect for the person that has just devoted a year to helping your club for free.
		
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Again another good post


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 12, 2013)

I am liking all this talk of respecting people no matter what.  After all golf and golf clubs in the UK are a hotbed of equality and diversity, synonymous with respecting and welcoming all sorts from society,  the tired, poor, the huddled masses, the people with their shirts not tucked in, women....


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## JustOne (Nov 12, 2013)

Bratty said:



			I'm Captain at Westerham, and although I do a fair bit, we're a proprietary club, so I don't have much standing anyway! I would be remarkably uncomfortable with "captain's privilege" even if it was a private members club, so there's no way I'd do it at Westerham.

Would I want to? I don't think so. I want to enjoy my golf, and worrying about whether people were annoyed with me stealing a march on the tee would not do much for my game.

I frequently greet guests as they pass me in the car park on their way to the pro-shop and chat to them if they're coming off the course to check they've had a good day at the club. Have spoken to people about joining and even gone back out for a few more holes with strangers when they say they are thinking of joining.

I am known as Sir by my Men's Team Organiser, which proved to be interesting when he used that as a title in comms to the away team, who suddenly thought someone really important was playing! Once they met me though, they soon realised...

And finally, to address MadAdey's question, it's not something I ever thought about. I just assume that I'll be myself and that'll be good enough for some and not for others. Can't please everyone all the time, but as long as I don't change as a person because I'm a Captain, then can't see why anyone should be unhappy who wasn't unhappy beforehand.
		
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I just want to know...... has it affected your swearing?


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## richart (Nov 12, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I just want to know...... has it affected your swearing? 

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 I think his swearing has improved in both quality and volume.


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## Bratty (Nov 12, 2013)

richart said:



			I think his swearing has improved in both quality and volume.

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My swearing is now almost non-existent in terms of volume, but the quality of it in my head has increased 10-fold!

Although I was tested Sunday after 4 over front 9 then slicing the backside off everything on the back 9 to finish with an 89!


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