# The stack and tilt swing by Michael Bennett and Andy Plummer



## USER1999 (Dec 31, 2009)

The Stack and Tilt Swing (the definitive guide to the swing that is remaking golf) by Michael Bennett and Andy Plummer. 

I bought this book after reading a review of it on the sandtrap.com. Stack and tilt is something I have been interested in for a while, if only to see what the fuss is all about.
It is a relatively new look at the golf swing, cherry picking swing characteristics from various successful golfers, and melding it all together into one swing. Essentially it involves no weight shift to the back foot, keeping the shoulders centred, a compact and flat swing plane, and no release (there is a lot more than that, but you need to read the book).

The book explains how stack and tilt works, and also explains failings in the more standard swing, as taught to 99% of golfers. It also has excerpts from some of their pupils, which explain how S&T has made a difference, and also what was wrong with their swings prior to working with the authors. There are lots of photographs of past major winners to illustrate the text, showing elements of S&T in their swings.

Obviously the authors would recommend S&T over and above the conventional golf swing, but you can also read this book and pick out the elements of their style that you like. One of the chapters deals with busting the myths about the conventional swing, such as the essential fundamentals of grip, posture, alignment, tempo etc, and also â€˜low and slowâ€™, taking the club back low and straight back to add power and width (not a good idea), which makes interesting reading. There is also a section on shot shaping which is a real eye opener (open club face for a draw anyone?). 

There are a few drills towards the end of the book which are useful, and I am now waiting for the practice ground to reopen to try them out. They also strongly recommend videoing every practice session so you can monitor progress. I have started doing this, to check if my changes are correct, and once you know what you are looking for, it is useful advice.

Reading this book, it has explained to me why my swing produces the results it does. No other book has identified and highlighted the faults in my swing like this one. It has done so in a simple and understandable way (unlike Hoganâ€™s book, which is impossible to understand). There is also a section on correcting common faults (although they miss out the shank, which is a shame), and how to remedy them. 

Am I going to change to S&T from reading this book? If I had the time, yes, I would. However, I donâ€™t really want to make such a major change. However, changing to a more minimal weight shift, hitting more from the inside, shortening my back swing and flattening my swing plane are all things that I am definitely going to work on, as from what I have seen these are already giving good results. My over the top toe poked fade is a thing of the past, and I am now drawing my irons like never before. That said, my bad shot at the moment is a monster shank (where is that fault in the diagnostics?), but then I have only been working on this for 4 sessions. Give it time.

If you are interested in the mechanics of the golf swing, give this a go, you might just learn something new.


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## JustOne (Dec 31, 2009)

My over the top toe poked fade is a thing of the past, and I am now drawing my irons like never before. That said, my bad shot at the moment is a monster shank (where is that fault in the diagnostics?).....
		
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It's really hard to incorporate SOME of the S&T principles into your swing as one requires the other eg:

If you are swinging too far from the inside then the clubhead will in all likeliness be moving away from your body too much (in-to-out) through the impact zone... causing the shank. So you have to figure a way to swing more In-square-in, driving the hips though the S&T swing will create the space to drop the club onto the right line (no shank) but if you're only doing a few aspects of the swing then it won't necessarily work.

I'd say in your case though that on your bad swings it's probably the opposite and you are slightly throwing the club from the top still and getting outside the line of the ball, thus shanking it. The reason I say this is because your swing plane is naturally quite upright and 'handsy' and I reckon it will be hard for you to flatten it to the proper S&T plane in just a few swings/days... you're probably too steep and outside the line.

Uploaded a vid? Wanna email me one?

Wanna send me the book for a week? 


Regards
James


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## USER1999 (Dec 31, 2009)

I am still a little bit upright, and over the top, especially with the driver, which is what I am working on, along with really driving the hips. Have you been spying on me?

This is where the video really comes in handy, as I can check for these faults creeping in.

According to the authors, you can incoprporate bits and not all, although obviously if you have the application to start again then this would be best.

You ought to buy a copy, as mine is not getting lent out for a while. It is still full of stick it notes.


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## Ethan (Dec 31, 2009)

I think S and T is good for some players for the short and mid irons, because it keeps you well centred and gets a good down strike on the ball, but more tricky with the longer clubs. 

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/stackandtilt

http://www.stackandtilt.com/


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## RGDave (Dec 31, 2009)

I think S and T is good for some players for the short and mid irons, because it keeps you well centred and gets a good down strike on the ball, but more tricky with the longer clubs.
		
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About 18 months ago, I video'd my swing and was appalled at the amount of lateral movement I had. This got me thinking that if I simply didn't move and allowed myself to be "stacked" over the left leg (being careful to avoid a reverse pivot) I'd probably bottom out very consistently and hit the ball better. I looked into zero-pivot swing and the beginnings of S&T and my theory proved impressively logical.
From everything I've heard and read on here, S&T isn't really something you can do half-baked, because there are repercussions to the rest of your swing.
Nick Faldo mentions a "Charlie Chaplin" drill in his book "A Swing for life". You simply stand with your feet together and turn the body without falling over. It's a great drill. Do it enough and the next iron you'll hit will feel like pure gold. If I'm stressing on the course about hitting short clubs, I'll swing the club a few times with my feet together, feeling that my knees are bonded together and both "sink into the feet" to avoid my head rising. If I wasn't playing with other folk at the time, I'd do it half a dozen times before each short iron shot....but that'd be bad form....so I don't.
However, the more I get into this stuff, the weaker my play with driver and woods gets. There must be a happy medium (?) so I tinker and experiment as often as possible. Before anyone says I'm talking nonsense (which I admit, I may) it was interesting to play a whole game with only my irons (after I bought a new set) and happily went round in about 78 shots, so it worked for me. Sadly, I couldn't bear to see my woods go even less far than normal, so ultimately I gave up on it.

Going back to the O.P. about 




			"changing to a more minimal weight shift, hitting more from the inside, shortening my back swing and flattening my swing plane are all things that I am definitely going to work on, as from what I have seen these are already giving good results
		
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 these are all things which would improve my own golf swing. 

Great post. 

May you all have a great New Year and Best Wishes for 2010.

"It's been emotional"

RGDave - signing off for another year.


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## JustOne (Jan 1, 2010)

About 18 months ago, I video'd my swing and was appalled at the amount of lateral movement I had. This got me thinking that if I simply didn't move and allowed myself to be "stacked" over the left leg (being careful to avoid a reverse pivot) I'd probably bottom out very consistently and hit the ball better. I looked into zero-pivot swing and the beginnings of S&T and my theory proved impressively logical.
		
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Eh? Is that a quote from the book or are you claiming to have invented stack and tilt yourself?

There's no one else on the planet (as far as I know) who ever advocated stacking over your left leg prior to Michael Bennett and Andy Plummer. Staying more centered? Perhaps... stacking? No

For the record - I have gone off almost all the drills established for the conventional golf swing, even the feet together drill (as it doesn't give you the sensation of getting through the ball onto your left side)... why practice something that you don't do? It might well be the reason why you subsequently can't hit your long irons or woods after doing this drill too often, no thrust.

The only thing I really do now is warm up, slow motion swings and position checking wherever possible.


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## jammydodger (Jan 1, 2010)

How is this all working out for you JustOneUK ? Are you seeing any benefits of this S & T stuff ? Good consistency of strike / distance control / shaping of shots etc etc


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## RGDave (Jan 1, 2010)

Eh? Is that a quote from the book or are you claiming to have invented stack and tilt yourself?
		
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No....I obviously got the idea from reading about it.




			For the record - I have gone off almost all the drills established for the conventional golf swing, even the feet together drill (as it doesn't give you the sensation of getting through the ball onto your left side)... why practice something that you don't do? It might well be the reason why you subsequently can't hit your long irons or woods after doing this drill too often, no thrust.
		
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You could be right. I practice all sorts of things, that's why a small bag/bucket of balls can take up 1 hour+ of time.
I like the feet together drill as well as the one leg drill.
Like I said, I'm always trying to find a compromise between staying still (centred) and keeping the thrust. I don't think I could ever hit the ball very well in a non-conventional way (with no weight shift), but I do like the results of trying out different drills, even if some good things are accompanied by some bad things.
Maybe mixing things up is a bad idea, but then again experimentation is the spice of life.


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## brendy (Jan 1, 2010)

As a handicap golfer, I just cant understand how you can just pick better parts of other swings. You basically make the best of your physical ability, most people dont have the natural ability to just pluck a straighter left arm out o the sky and make it work instantly etc. That is why we go to teaching pros and see what they can see us being able to achieve.
I have yet to be given a task by a pro and found myself giving up on it as it was impossible, I am far from good at this game so I see teaching being far better than reading as they can gauge what to teach by your actual ability.
 The only exception to this rule that i have seen so far is the bob rotella books as these are more the mental game rather than telling you how you should be swinging. 
Stack and tilt can still go wrong. In my mind the actual swing is only part of the game, its the reliability that is required to play well every time is the key. In other words, look at jim furyks swing, its neither S&T nor classic but because it is repetative and square at impact, it works. Why change to S&T and try to learn it when you can just go to a pro and get him to help fine tune what you already have?


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## JustOne (Jan 1, 2010)

How is this all working out for you JustOneUK ? Are you seeing any benefits of this S & T stuff ? Good consistency of strike / distance control / shaping of shots etc etc
		
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Judging stack and tilt to how I've been playing this year is hardly a great benchmark. I haven't been on a practice ground for more than 2 days this year and also had a couple of painfull injuries that almost made me quit the game altogether. To be honest I can't believe how well I am actually hitting it sometimes considering how little I played this year, and I thank stack and tilt mechanics for that to a degree.

I do think it's a revelation and I'd honestly recommend it to anyone who wants to improve their game.

With regards to consistency of strike / distance control / shaping of shots etc etc Everything feels improved with what little golf I have played, my bad golf is down to my own practice (or lack of it) and not S&T. If I play a bit more often then I expect to be knocking on level par's door quite often during the Summer.

Here's another little page to read..
http://thesandtrap.com/tvmedia/the_stack_and_tilt_swing_book_review ... sooner or later you'll start thinking about giving it a go.


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## jammydodger (Jan 2, 2010)

Interesting stuff

Cant get my head around the thoughts of dismantling my swing and starting again. I've worked so hard this year to get back to 5 and see room for a lot more improvement that re-modeling the swing would be slightly disheartening.

I'm keeping an open mind though and will keep a look out for how S&T takes off


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## THJahar (Jan 2, 2010)

Well I switched to the s&t after getting absolutely no where with the standard swing.
After playing for a year with the traditional swing, when I switched it was like playing golf for the first time again.
I was awful, my rounds went from 95ish to 110ish, but I immediately started to contact the ball better, but direction was all over the show.
Unfortunately winter is upon us and having no range I'm really struggling at the moment.
I've finally sorted out the driving with the S&T, but i'm having problems with my irons.
It's down to a too long back swing and a failure to get the hips through as well as trying to 'punch' everything with the wrists.
What I'm trying to say is this: The s&t allows you to hit the ball more consistently  but demands far more in timing between the body and the hands than the traditional swing.
So if your flaws are fats and thins, then the s&t is for you, but if your flaws are slices and hooks then perhaps not.


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## Imurg (Jan 2, 2010)

What I'm trying to say is this: The s&t allows you to hit the ball more consistently  but demands far more in timing between the body and the hands than the traditional swing.
So if your flaws are fats and thins, then the s&t is for you, but if your flaws are slices and hooks then perhaps not.
		
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I would venture to suggest that 90% of problems are hooks and slices. Also if S&T requires better timing than the conventional swing that would render another large chunk of people out of the equation. So not many are going to actually improve using this method. Seems an awful lot of change for possibly not much gain.


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## JustOne (Jan 2, 2010)

So not many are going to actually improve using this method. Seems an awful lot of change for possibly not much gain.
		
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Wow, that's a pretty sweeping statement based on one persons experience! I actually found that stack and tilt made my shot dispersion a lot tighter, everything was a lot straighter...and longer.

I think the other point which you missed was where he said "The s&t allows you to hit the ball more consistently" ...which I'd say is the essence of golf.

Is there ANYONE who would choose to be LESS consistent????


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## USER1999 (Jan 2, 2010)

I have found S&T to be very good for 5i and down, and today for 5w and down, I just can't quite get my driver going yet. Having played today, on temps, and messed about with my swing, purer S&T was getting the best results.

Whilst my current swing has got me to 9.7, this is mainly due to a pretty hot short game, and a solid putting stroke. My bad shots come from an over the top slice, which can be a pull, or a very weak toe poke. My best shots are dead straight due to a weird hand action. S&T (or elements of) have turned this into a much more solid strike. This can only be good in the long term, and may yet see me to high single figures.

Having lessons on my current swing is like papering over the cracks. It would also cost more than I can afford.


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## Region3 (Jan 3, 2010)

Is there ANYONE who would choose to be LESS consistent?
		
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It depends if it's consistently good or bad


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## golf_bug (Mar 11, 2010)

I have just bought this book myself after toying with the idea of making the change to S&T.  

I think the book itself is a bit of a let down.  From reading it I didn't get a true sense of the swing from start to finish.  It breaks the swing down into the usual elements - posture, address, backswing etc, but the book seems hell bent on justifying why S&T is better than a normal swing, rather than piecing it together from start to finish.  There are some useful quotes from S&T pros in the book, which describe certain 'feelings' they look for when executing parts of the S&T swing.  However, remember that these are tour pro's, whose foundation in golf is infinitely better than the intended audience of this book.

Having said that its worth a read in my opinion. There are elements you can take form the book to improve your own swing - not shifting weight back being the obvious one.  There are tour pro's who incorporate elements of this into their non-S&T swings e.g. Zach Johnson.  

I agree with others above that if you are going to try S&T, you should try and implement all elements of the swing, not just a few. My one word of caution though is that this is a big change to make without help from someone who knows what they are talking about. Don't assume from reading this book that you will be striking the ball like Lee Travino in 2 weeks!


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## thecraw (Mar 11, 2010)

Stack and tilt is horses for courses and for every fan their will be just as many critics, for every success there will be more failures.

Look at Mike Weir, he attributes his downturn in form and dreadful golf to changing to S&T and is now trying desperately to get his old swing back!


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## golf_bug (Mar 11, 2010)

Stack and tilt is horses for courses and for every fan their will be just as many critics, for every success there will be more failures.

Look at Mike Weir, he attributes his downturn in form and dreadful golf to changing to S&T and is now trying desperately to get his old swing back!
		
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It is interesting to see the mixed success tour pros have had with S&T.  Aaron Baddley went up the world rankings very quickly with S&T, then dropped it and slid down the rankings! 

But the point behind S&T is to improve consistency of ball striking for us mortals.  Tour pro's can strike the ball well.  Even their duffs would be considered great shots by us!


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## JustOne (Mar 11, 2010)

Look at Mike Weir, he attributes his downturn in form and dreadful golf to changing to S&T and is now trying desperately to get his old swing back!
		
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Where does it say that?


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