# Dress Code - Who is responsible?



## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Firstly let me say - i have no issues with whatever dress code a golf course wishes to employ. Its their club they can make their rules.

However - Who is responsible for making you aware of those Rules For a whole society day not a normal 4 ball? 
(bear in mind this club does NOT have a website and does not communicate via email)


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## guest100718 (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Firstly let me say - i have no issues with whatever dress code a golf course wishes to employ. Its their club they can make their rules.

However - Who is responsible for making you aware of those Rules For a whole society day not a normal 4 ball? 
(bear in mind this club does NOT have a website and does not communicate via email)
		
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I'd expect the club to let me know of anything specific. some places we book are quite keen to emphasise the code, others I think just assume you'll know.


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## MrC (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Firstly let me say - i have no issues with whatever dress code a golf course wishes to employ. Its their club they can make their rules.

However - Who is responsible for making you aware of those Rules For a whole society day not a normal 4 ball? 
(bear in mind this club does NOT have a website and does not communicate via email)
		
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For me, I would assume and expect normal golf attire to be standard unless advised otherwise.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2017)

As per MrC.

If the club do not have a website and do not communicate well then they are not helping themselves but everyone who plays golf knows the basics of how to dress. The issue on the whole is for clubs who take things to an extreme, jackets, long socks etc. Golfers have to take some responsibility themselves (and I am someone who is not a fan of dress codes but does follow and respect them)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Firstly let me say - i have no issues with whatever dress code a golf course wishes to employ. Its their club they can make their rules.

However - Who is responsible for making you aware of those Rules For a whole society day not a normal 4 ball? 
(bear in mind this club does NOT have a website and does not communicate via email)
		
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I would ask the club what their dress code is to save embarrassment 

I would say it would be the society Organisers responsibility to find out from the club and then let all players know


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## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 12, 2017)

If they have a dress code outside of the norm (i.e. ties and jacket in the clubhouse), I would argue they should make you aware to save embarrassment.


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2017)

Yeah, if they don't state it very clearly, either on the phone to you or on a website, I would expect it to be standard golf dress code - collared shirts and trousers/tailored shorts - nothing over and beyond that.


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Now i can see that the view are fairly consistent with mine, i'll give some more context. I am specifically talking about Jackets & Ties for lunch. 

I run my works golf society, we visit the best courses in the country - in recent years we've been to Hankley, Woking, West Hill, Worplesdon, St Georges etc. So i fully understand dress codes and we will always comply - However, every single one of these has a different code and have therefore always made me aware (either through booking forms etc or calling me).

On Monday we turned up to New Zealand for our society day, and the only communication i had had with the club was via telephone (even that was bloody hard work) - at no point did i receive any documentation etc.

None of us took jacket and ties for lunch. 

I sat down with the club secretary and openly took some of the blame (obviously they could have just thrown us out, and i was acutely aware of that), but they would not even consider that it was any of their responsibility. To say he/they were rude to me was a massive understatement. so much so i almost left and had to sit in the car to calm down as i was so upset.

we ended up eating SANDWICHES on the terrace rather than receiving a 3 course carvery, and to make matters worse - when i spoke to the bar to see about ordering a load of chips to go with it, they refused (despite chips being on the menu).

The golf club was the most backward place i have ever been too, they were so far up their own a55es it was a joke. the golf course itself was great, but nothing in comparison to others in the area.

i should add, that they did reduce our cost per person for the day (to their credit) which i was not expecting.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK, I have every sympathy with you in that case. Jackets and ties are an exception so I would expect the club to advise you of this. They will know that they are an exception and should have told you when you booked. I would not take a J & T to a golf club on the off chance.

Write a scathing letter to the sec, a letter is always good as it will be read at the committee meetings, or should be, and it means you make it official.


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			MendieGK, I have every sympathy with you in that case. Jackets and ties are an exception so I would expect the club to advise you of this. They will know that they are an exception and should have told you when you booked. I would not take a J & T to a golf club on the off chance.

Write a scathing letter to the sec, a letter is always good as it will be read at the committee meetings, or should be, and it means you make it official.
		
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He basically said if you've been to all these other clubs you should know they all have the same rule....

Woking/St Georges Hill - Jacket over golf attire
West Hill/Worplesdon/Hanley - no change required


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## patricks148 (Jul 12, 2017)

you should have checked on here

forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?41969-New-Zealand-Golf-Club-Surrey


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 12, 2017)

I used to play in a society that visited all the above mentioned clubs. By default, everyone used to take a jacket and tie for dinner so if it was required for lunch then there wasn't a problem.


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## Chokeahontas (Jul 12, 2017)

I have problems with clubs banning trainers in the bar (you're a sports club!), to the extent I haven't been back to play that course, I can't imagine how outraged I'd be at demanding wearing a stupid tie and jacket..


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I used to play in a society that visited all the above mentioned clubs. By default, everyone used to take a jacket and tie for dinner so if it was required for lunch then there wasn't a problem.
		
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we don't have dinner after mate so has never been needed, and by rule i don't visit clubs that make you change halfway between (hence not going to Berkshire).


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

I didnt add, the Pro seems to be separate from the club, as he was very much of the opinion the club was full of 'plonkers' (insert other words).


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## guest100718 (Jul 12, 2017)

sounds like the perfect club for D4S....


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## MrC (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			we don't have dinner after mate so has never been needed, and by rule i don't visit clubs that make you change halfway between (hence not going to Berkshire).
		
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I wouldn't want to play golf and have to get changed for lunch to get changed back for golf...............


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2017)

Thankfully in the NE I can only think of one club that insists on a J & T and I would never play there as it is not exceptional enough to warrant the hassle. I guess if you have more courses near you that have this rule you will have to put it down as lesson learnt and you will check in advance. Personally I would ask before booking and say thanks but no thanks if it was required.

At least you have the satisfaction of knowing that your society will never give this club another penny in green fees or over the bar.


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## Slab (Jul 12, 2017)

With no website or email communication did the club sec offer any explanation has to how you were supposed to know about their club rule?

As far as I can see online others have been reliant on tip-offs, hearsay, past experience etc in order to make sure they comply which seems a tad hit & miss for the club & visitors 

How many players were there? I cant imagine the club throwing out piles of fresh food that your guys couldn't avail of so either you were a small group or they did just chuck it... or maybe they just microwave from frozen


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Slab said:



			With no website or email communication did the club sec offer any explanation has to how you were supposed to know about their club rule?

As far as I can see online others have been reliant on tip-offs, hearsay, past experience etc in order to make sure they comply which seems a tad hit & miss for the club & visitors 

How many players were there? I cant imagine the club throwing out piles of fresh food that your guys couldn't avail of so either you were a small group or they did just chuck it... or maybe they just microwave from frozen 

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there was 33 of us. The issue came to light first thing in the morning when the pro mentioned it to one of the players. 

I then took it upon myself to try and get it sorted before i teed off -  i have no idea what would have happened if we'd just finished the morning round and then expected to eat.. hadnt even crossed my mind!


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## Slab (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			there was 33 of us. The issue came to light first thing in the morning when the pro mentioned it to one of the players. 

I then took it upon myself to try and get it sorted before i teed off -  i have no idea what would have happened if we'd just finished the morning round and then expected to eat.. hadnt even crossed my mind!
		
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33 Jeez! Maybe not a bad thing as it sounds like you missed out on a carvery menu of: Cup-a-soup, Rustlers micro-burger with crinkle cut McCain and an arctic roll!

Hope the sarnies were nice


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## davemc1 (Jul 12, 2017)

These clubs have a cheek, they'll be asking you to wear a jacket and tie for bangers and mash next!


oh, ang on a minute... :rofl:


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## DRW (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Firstly let me say - i have no issues with whatever dress code a golf course wishes to employ. Its their club they can make their rules.

However - Who is responsible for making you aware of those Rules For a whole society day not a normal 4 ball? 
(bear in mind this club does NOT have a website and does not communicate via email)
		
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I think it should go like :-

The person who takes responsibility for the group - is the organiser and should inform the players and should know all the booking conditions(dress code, handicap requirements etc).

What should the Organiser do and expect from club - I would expect a letter or email be sent when booking is confirmed enclosing matters such as dress codes. However to be blunt(if I am allowed to be) as an organiser going to a older style golf club, you should have been asking in detail before booking, to ensure it met your don't change at lunchtime requirement.

I suppose a lesson learnt but both parties sound like partly to blame(them for not sending out dress code requirements and you for not asking), and really could not have made for a pleasant day for you.


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## patricks148 (Jul 12, 2017)

I think there are still a few clubs around that would expect you to wear Jacket and Tie at Lunch.

 they would more likely be the old fashioned traditional Members clubs and prob a clue might also be if they didn't have lady members.

some of the comments one these threads always surprise me that many would not visit a a top course just because of some dress code issue (not the OP, this is different).  How difficult is it to wear a pair of shoes/ Trousers to visit a top course??


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2017)

Chokeahontas said:



			I have problems with clubs banning trainers in the bar (you're a sports club!), to the extent I haven't been back to play that course, I can't imagine how outraged I'd be at demanding wearing a stupid tie and jacket..
		
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Well there will be a hell of a lot of clubs and indeed mainly all the best clubs in the GB that you shouldn't visit then.


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I think there are still a few clubs around that would expect you to wear Jacket and Tie at Lunch.

 they would more likely be the old fashioned traditional Members clubs and prob a clue might also be if they didn't have lady members.

some of the comments one these threads always surprise me that many would not visit a a top course just because of some dress code issue (not the OP, this is different).  How difficult is it to wear a pair of shoes/ Trousers to visit a top course??
		
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Shoes and trousers are fine obviously. Jacket and ties though, just gives off this image of some pompous up-themselves club that you wouldn't to spend time in I think.


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## Slab (Jul 12, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I think there are still a few clubs around that would expect you to wear Jacket and Tie at Lunch.

 they would more likely be the old fashioned traditional Members clubs and prob a clue might also be if they didn't have lady members.

*some of the comments one these threads always surprise me that many would not visit a a top course just because of some dress code issue (not the OP, this is different).  How difficult is it to wear a pair of shoes/ Trousers to visit a top course??*

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Never been faced with the decision yet so not sure whether i'd go/not go, but I do know that if it was collar & tie I'd want to find out that it was the restaurant that was 'top' too not just the course

Bit off topic but a lunchtime carvery doesn't outwardly suggest its worthy of a jacket/collar/tie dealy, more of a pub chain menu that


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## guest100718 (Jul 12, 2017)

as long as I can change in the car park them im cool....


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 12, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Shoes and trousers are fine obviously. Jacket and ties though, just gives off this image of some pompous up-themselves club that you wouldn't to spend time in I think.
		
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Matter of opinion I guess but to me it's worth making the effort to play courses like Rye, RSG and Swinley Forest.


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			He basically said if you've been to all these other clubs you should know they all have the same rule....

Woking/St Georges Hill - Jacket over golf attire
West Hill/Worplesdon/Hanley - no change required
		
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These things happen Sam.. swapped a few messages with Big Steve and George this week about it.  Blame all aimed at Club, not the organiser!  In the days I ran a Soc, everywhere was J&T after, the odd one wanted mid round change of clothes.  

Trouble is, some of these places are still wealthy (and arrogant) enough to not be overly bothered about Customer Service and good manners.  It's only when the cash starts to dry up they have a change of attitude.

Growing up in Surrey in the 80s, I remember when you approached some clubs to be a member or to visit, they just told you to F.O.  Now I get 5 emails a week begging me to go and play!


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I think there are still a few clubs around that would expect you to wear Jacket and Tie at Lunch.

 they would more likely be the old fashioned traditional Members clubs and prob a clue might also be if they didn't have lady members.

some of the comments one these threads always surprise me that many would not visit a a top course just because of some dress code issue (not the OP, this is different).  How difficult is it to wear a pair of shoes/ Trousers to visit a top course??
		
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my issue with the dress code of jacket and tie at lunch (with golf PM too). is purely that you dont have time to change and eat and the whole thing is just illogical.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Shoes and trousers are fine obviously. Jacket and ties though, just gives off this image of some pompous up-themselves club that you wouldn't to spend time in I think.
		
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With the list of clubs that require jacket and tie being a great as they are I have no problem at all putting on a jacket for an hour


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Matter of opinion I guess but to me it's worth making the effort to play courses like Rye, RSG and Swinley Forest.
		
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Agree completely.   If it's your club you impose what the heck you like.  I'm happy to dress a requested if I chose to go somewhere.

But (as many do) have the good manners (and sense) to tell people about your "customs"  - 

Assuming they "should know" is either stupidity or arrogance! (might be both!!)


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			With the list of clubs that require jacket and tie being a great as they are I have no problem at all putting on a jacket for an hour
		
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so do you shower after the morning round and then put the suit on, then put your golf gear back on? all of this in approx and hour (need to eat your 3 course lunch too)....

New Zealand is not in the same league as other courses in the area.


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Matter of opinion I guess but to me it's worth making the effort to play courses like Rye, RSG and Swinley Forest.
		
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Could still play the courses of course - I just mean I'd probably forgo the clubhouse rather than bring a jacket and tie along just to sit inside and have a bite to eat.


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Could still play the courses of course - I just mean I'd probably forgo the clubhouse rather than bring a jacket and tie along just to sit inside and have a bite to eat.
		
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Thats what i did @ the berkshire. kept numbers below the 23 max before having to use the dining room.


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## DRW (Jul 12, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Could still play the courses of course - I just mean I'd probably forgo the clubhouse rather than bring a jacket and tie along just to sit inside and have a bite to eat.
		
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I agree with D4s on the extra effort is worth it and I would just comply with their requirements.

For instance to miss out on going into the clubhouse at RSG and missing out on lunch, just due to not willing to put on a jacket/tie, it was very special in there, the history, the feelings, the cards on the wall and so on etc. Well worth it, l loved the forum day out there in February and hope to go back one day. Forum days are great.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 12, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Could still play the courses of course - I just mean I'd probably forgo the clubhouse rather than bring a jacket and tie along just to sit inside and have a bite to eat.
		
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Yes that's always an option but its nice to enjoy the full experience.


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## Stuart_C (Jul 12, 2017)

Responsibility lies  50/50 in this case imo.

For NZ not to allow you to order chips is astonishing behaviour from such an established club. 

Wait until we turn up next week :rofl:


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

DarrenWilliams said:



			I agree with D4s on the extra effort is worth it and I would just comply with their requirements.

For instance to miss out on going into the clubhouse at RSG and missing out on lunch, just due to not willing to put on a jacket/tie, it was very special in there, the history, the feelings, the cards on the wall and so on etc. Well worth it, l loved the forum day out there in February and hope to go back one day. Forum days are great.
		
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Perfectly happy dressing up, AFTER golf (as is the case at RSG), but changing in between is absurd.

However, as previously mentioned. The club is at liberty to make their own rules and i have no issues with that


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2017)

DarrenWilliams said:



			I agree with D4s on the extra effort is worth it and I would just comply with their requirements.

For instance to miss out on going into the clubhouse at RSG and missing out on lunch, just due to not willing to put on a jacket/tie, it was very special in there, the history, the feelings, the cards on the wall and so on etc. Well worth it, l loved the forum day out there in February and hope to go back one day. Forum days are great.
		
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I think that sort of thing might be lost on me. I love playing golf as much as anyone and trying new courses, but I don't have a lot of interest in the history aspect. I rarely even watch golf on TV.


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## patricks148 (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			my issue with the dress code of jacket and tie at lunch (with golf PM too). is purely that you dont have time to change and eat and the whole thing is just illogical.
		
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Were you playing 36 holes?

A few places we have matches against we have to do this and its never a problem, but have only been 16 of us per side


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## Lincoln Quaker (Jul 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Responsibility lies  50/50 in this case imo.

For NZ not to allow you to order chips is astonishing behaviour from such an established club. 

Wait until we turn up next week :rofl:
		
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I am looking forward to you turning up next week to an empty car park and the course to yourself.

You may actually win :rofl:


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## Stuart_C (Jul 12, 2017)

Lincoln Quaker said:



			I am looking forward to you turning up next week to an empty car park and the course to yourself.

You may actually win :rofl:
		
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You know what I meant numb nuts. I'll beat you Mr Lincoln "NR King" Quaker even without my 2 shot hole


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			so do you shower after the morning round and then put the suit on, then put your golf gear back on? all of this in approx and hour (need to eat your 3 course lunch too)....

New Zealand is not in the same league as other courses in the area.
		
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Plenty of time - shower and change only takes 5/10 mins max


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## Chokeahontas (Jul 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well there will be a hell of a lot of clubs and indeed mainly all the best clubs in the GB that you shouldn't visit then.
		
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Yep. And that's fine. I hate the image of golf sometimes, and there's a big correlation between the tie and blazer set and the Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden crowd. I'm sure that's a sweeping statement but I stand by it. And I'm sure none of them are weeping at the thought of losing me as a potential punter.


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Plenty of time - shower and change only takes 5/10 mins max
		
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spose' their is less of you to clean isn't there


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## Jamesbrown (Jul 12, 2017)

I wouldn't expect to eat a CARVERY with a jacket and tie on midday. 
I'd blame the club for being pretentious and not getting modern. And for not letting you know that the stick is still firmly wedged up there.,
Give it 10 years and it'll change once the old toffs die off. 
Younger new golfers won't be flooding to these courses and eventually they'll struggle for membership. They'll be forced to change. 

I pay a significant fee for my club (most expensive annual subs in area including two soon to be open qualifying venues) and I can stroll round in the bar with my shoes and hat on, and wear whatever colour socks I damn well like. Which is black. 

Take the club off your society rota. Especially after your chips fiasco.


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Jamesbrown said:



			I wouldn't expect to eat a CARVERY with a jacket and tie on midday. 
I'd blame the club for being pretentious and not getting modern. And for not letting you know that the stick is still firmly wedged up there.,
Give it 10 years and it'll change once the old toffs die off. 
Younger new golfers won't be flooding to these courses and eventually they'll struggle for membership. They'll be forced to change. 

I pay a significant fee for my club (most expensive annual subs in area including two soon to be open qualifying venues) and I can stroll round in the bar with my shoes and hat on, and wear whatever colour socks I damn well like. Which is black. 

Take the club off your society rota. Especially after your chips fiasco.
		
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i dont think the club will be there in 10 years once they have to sell due to the McLaren development - crying shame!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2017)

Jamesbrown said:



			I pay a significant fee for my club (most expensive annual subs in area including two soon to be open qualifying venues) and I can stroll round in the bar with my shoes and hat on, and wear whatever colour socks I damn well like. Which is black. 

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Rebellious black socks, you are pushing the boundaries there .


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## TheJezster (Jul 12, 2017)

Just put a tie on your polo and shove a jacket on over the top &#128514; especially effective if you still have shorts on too &#128521; jacket and tie? Tick, i comply,  now where's my carvery....


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Mondays happenings must have spread across the top clubs. 

I just enquired about a 2018 event @ Coombe Hill and received this on the email ....

Dear Sam,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding Society golf day in 2018.
We accept societies Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays from 08.30 and from 14.00 on Wednesdays.  I have attached this yearâ€™s standard package details and menu for information; however, I should mention that there will probably be a slight price increase for 2018 and the menu will also change.
*We operate a strict dress code at Coombe Hill therefore I have attached details accordingly.*
Perhaps when you have a better idea of dates I will be able to check availability for you.
In the meantime, if I can be of further assistance please contact me.
Kind regards


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Mondays happenings must have spread across the top clubs. 

I just enquired about a 2018 event @ Coombe Hill and received this on the email ....

Dear Sam,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding Society golf day in 2018.
We accept societies Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays from 08.30 and from 14.00 on Wednesdays.  I have attached this yearâ€™s standard package details and menu for information; however, I should mention that there will probably be a slight price increase for 2018 and the menu will also change.
*We operate a strict dress code at Coombe Hill therefore I have attached details accordingly.*
Perhaps when you have a better idea of dates I will be able to check availability for you.
In the meantime, if I can be of further assistance please contact me.
Kind regards
		
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That's much more sensible and how it should be. If your dress code is strict, you can't really expect people to know that without you telling them.


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			That's much more sensible and how it should be. If your dress code is strict, you can't really expect people to know that without you telling them.
		
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ironically, the dress code is very relaxed. 

they allow trainer socks and smart casual in the clubhouse!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2017)

Are trainer socks not allowed in some places? In warm weather, wearing golf shorts obviously, I go into the clubhouse / bar wearing either trainer socks or no socks in my canvas shoes. What else would you wear in shorts or are you not allowed in some bars in tailored shorts still?


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## IanM (Jul 12, 2017)

But my over arching take from this thread is that if_ courses don't tell you their "stuff" ... they shouldn't act surprised if folk don't adhere to it! _


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## Tarkus1212 (Jul 12, 2017)

Slab said:



			Never been faced with the decision yet so not sure whether i'd go/not go, but I do know that if it was collar & tie I'd want to find out that it was the restaurant that was 'top' too not just the course

Bit off topic but a lunchtime carvery doesn't outwardly suggest its worthy of a jacket/collar/tie dealy, more of a pub chain menu that
		
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The lunchtime carvery at Woburn is a three course epicureans delight, thankfully they dropped J&T for lunch some years ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2017)

Tarkus1212 said:



			The lunchtime carvery at Woburn is a three course epicureans delight, thankfully they dropped J&T for lunch some years ago.
		
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The carvery at Woburn is ok - it's a Harvester compared to what is served at places like Berkshire , RSG , St George's Hill


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## Tashyboy (Jul 12, 2017)

Stuart_C said:



			Responsibility lies  50/50 in this case imo.

For NZ not to allow you to order chips is astonishing behaviour from such an established club. 

Wait until we turn up next week :rofl:
		
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Hope to god you leave your shell suit at home.

Joking aside how does a club that is supposed to be in the top 100 of this country not have a website. What's that all about.


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## Wilson (Jul 12, 2017)

So what can we expect at NZ, in a couple of weeks?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 12, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			Hope to god you leave your shell suit at home.

Joking aside how does a club that is supposed to be in the top 100 of this country not have a website. What's that all about.
		
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Exclusivity and intrigue keeps an aura about the place.


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## MendieGK (Jul 12, 2017)

Wilson said:



			So what can we expect at NZ, in a couple of weeks?
		
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A golf course in fantastic condition, with exceptional par 3s, and number of very similar par 4s.

imo not in the same league as the 3 Ws, Hankley or St George's, but still a good course.

the professional clearly doesn't like 'the club' 

the 'club' - backward, old fashioned and stuck up their own backsides


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## North Mimms (Jul 12, 2017)

Despite what Coombe Hill state in their letter, most such clubs don't think that their dress code is "strict", they think it is the norm. Therefore there is no need to tell you, as everyone "knows" that's what a dress code is.


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## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2017)

North Mimms said:



			Despite what Coombe Hill state in their letter, most such clubs don't think that their dress code is "strict", they think it is the norm. Therefore there is no need to tell you, as everyone "knows" that's what a dress code is.
		
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'Standard' dress code is collared shirts, tailored trousers/shorts and golf shoes. Surely that's what 99% of people would think. There's no way anyone can think making people wear a jacket and tie just for a bite to eat at lunch is normal or could be assumed!


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

Coombe Hill is a lovely course,  i really enjoyed playing there.  I think it's better than it's cousin,  Royal Wimbledon personally.  I didn't find the dress code odd there at all.  We had a match and shorts were fine everywhere.  Some other of their members joined us outside for drinks after and it was a cracking time.  One of them wore ladies trousers which the others took great delight in pointing out to us.  Apparently he'd turned up and bought some new trousers from the pro shop and wore them without realising they were ladies.  Id definitely recommend it.  The course,  not the trousers &#128521;


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

You should try Luffenham Heath near me. My firm sponsored a charity day there a few years ago. Had to change into jacket and tie for lunch which they were prepared for. Problem was it was 35 degrees in the middle of July and they had to keep their jackets on for the entire meal as nobody could get hold of the club captain or the club president to get permission for people in the clubhouse to remove them. Yes, whatever the weather, jackets had to stay on until permission was received from the club captain or president.


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

Seriously???? Why didn't anyone just take them off? That's nonsense.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2017)

Yup, I really don't get that. Having to get permission from one of two people only is archaic and makes a club a laughing stock. Surely the steward should be able to make that call as they are the one always present in the location where the people are in that situation.


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## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2017)

Haha, yeah, I would have just had the jacket straight off and to hell with the consequences. 35 degrees sitting with a jacket on - you can forget that.


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## garyinderry (Jul 13, 2017)

Don't these course's that require a jacket and tie in their dining area have an outside seating area? 


Surely they could just have fed your ''rabble'' outside.  


I also have the image of guys sitting around with muddy golf shoes, Galvin wet trousers plus jacket and tie. :rofl:


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Haha, yeah, I would have just had the jacket straight off and to hell with the consequences. 35 degrees sitting with a jacket on - you can forget that.
		
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I think the two of us would be sat quite happily outside on the terrace eating off our knees whilst the others sweated away :cheers:. Not quite sure why anyone thinks 20+ blokes red and sweating in jackets and ties gives an air of sophistication.


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## sam85 (Jul 13, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Don't these course's that require a jacket and tie in their dining area have an outside seating area? 


Surely they could just have fed your ''rabble'' outside.  


I also have the image of guys sitting around with muddy golf shoes, Galvin wet trousers plus jacket and tie. :rofl:
		
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I think the best one I ever had happened when I was fairly new to golf and had little/no understanding of dress codes.  We played a society day at a nearby course that was by no means posh.  It was a horrible day and after the round we were sat having a pint at a table when the barman came over and said I'm really sorry but a member has just seen you have trainers on, they aren't allowed in here.  My friend didn't have any shoes with him except for his golf shoes that were absolutely caked in mud but no the club insisted he wear his golf shoes in the clubhouse so he did and made a right old mess walking through. The member was happy though as the clubs dress code was being adhered to.

I get that clubs have dress codes and I have absolutely no problem followingthem but IMO sometimes a little common sense has to be used.  But then again common sense and golf very rarely go hand in hand.


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## drdel (Jul 13, 2017)

Who is responsible? Obviously not the dork playing in a 4ball today. His attire was teeshirt with cutoff arms and very short shorts! I don't usually give a stuff but surely his mates must have wondered.


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## IanM (Jul 13, 2017)

drdel said:



			Who is responsible? Obviously not the dork playing in a 4ball today. His attire was teeshirt with cutoff arms and very short shorts! I don't usually give a stuff but surely his mates must have wondered.
		
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...did you say "excuse me Madam"  those shorts are not LPGA Length!!


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## Orikoru (Jul 13, 2017)

garyinderry said:



			Don't these course's that require a jacket and tie in their dining area have an outside seating area? 


Surely they could just have fed your ''rabble'' outside.  


I also have the image of guys sitting around with muddy golf shoes, Galvin wet trousers plus jacket and tie. :rofl:
		
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Well that's what he wanted but they wouldn't even serve him chips outside - just sandwiches. That's probably the most ridiculous part of it all!


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## MendieGK (Jul 13, 2017)

Orikoru said:



			Well that's what he wanted but they wouldn't even serve him chips outside - just sandwiches. That's probably the most ridiculous part of it all!
		
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It was the fact I said I'd obviously pay for them as an extra. But because it wasn't an individual item only included within meals. 

Clowns all all of them.

on a positive. Just booked Walton Heath, they've already confirmed their dress code (jacket over golf gear).


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## Imurg (Jul 13, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Just booked Walton Heath, they've already confirmed their dress code (jacket over golf gear).
		
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Serious question....
What is the point of that?
I can understand jacket and tie or neither but to go half and half is just ridiculous...Jacket over golf gear..?
Someone's been at the Port ....


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## guest100718 (Jul 13, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Serious question....
What is the point of that?
I can understand jacket and tie or neither but to go half and half is just ridiculous...Jacket over golf gear..?
Someone's been at the Port ....
		
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because it's tradition don't you know.


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## IanM (Jul 13, 2017)

My club is trialling allowing jeans in one of the bars... a few oldies a huffing a bit but as far as I know, it hasn't resulted in anyone dying or mass cheating in medals!  When I joined 8 years ago you used to have your packet of crisps served in a bowl...


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## guest100718 (Jul 13, 2017)

IanM said:



			My club is trialling allowing jeans in one of the bars... a few oldies a huffing a bit but as far as I know, it hasn't resulted in anyone dying or mass cheating in medals!  When I joined 8 years ago you used to have your packet of crisps served in a bowl...
		
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according to some it will be the beginning of the end 
...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

Blimey it's always the same people complaining about dress codes - and it's always the same answer - if you don't like the dress code at any club then don't play at that club. I expect the clubs that have strict dress codes don't have to worry about lack of numbers.

If someone offered you a free round at Augusta but you had to wear jacket and tie after how many are going to turn it down because of jacket and tie


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## guest100718 (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey it's always the same people complaining about dress codes - and it's always the same answer - if you don't like the dress code at any club then don't play at that club. I expect the clubs that have strict dress codes don't have to worry about lack of numbers.

If someone offered you a free round at Augusta but you had to wear jacket and tie after how many are going to turn it down because of jacket and tie
		
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yh yh.... and it's the same old reply from you.


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## Imurg (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey it's always the same people complaining about dress codes - and it's always the same answer - if you don't like the dress code at any club then don't play at that club. I expect the clubs that have strict dress codes don't have to worry about lack of numbers.

If someone offered you a free round at Augusta but you had to wear jacket and tie after how many are going to turn it down because of jacket and tie
		
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Answer this for me Phil - and not with the "it's their bat and ball"...
What is the point of requiring a jacket over golf attire in order to have lunch..?


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## garyinderry (Jul 13, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Serious question....
What is the point of that?
I can understand jacket and tie or neither but to go half and half is just ridiculous...Jacket over golf gear..?
Someone's been at the Port ....
		
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Bunkers :rofl:


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Answer this for me Phil - and not with the "it's their bat and ball"...
What is the point of requiring a jacket over golf attire in order to have lunch..?
		
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I was going to ask that. Why do you have to wear a jacket? What is the reason for it?


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## MendieGK (Jul 13, 2017)

richy said:



			I was going to ask that. Why do you have to wear a jacket? What is the reason for it?
		
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It was the same at St George's hill, and also Woking. No issues with it but also don't see the point


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey it's always the same people complaining about dress codes - and it's always the same answer - if you don't like the dress code at any club then don't play at that club. I expect the clubs that have strict dress codes don't have to worry about lack of numbers.

If someone offered you a free round at Augusta but you had to wear jacket and tie after how many are going to turn it down because of jacket and tie
		
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I don't think the issue was the dress code itself, just that you needed to be psychic to know what it was.

It's a bit of an issue if the club doesn't explain what is required in advance. What I often notice is that even when they do it's always "jacket and tie" with no mention of a women's dress code. I might bring a jacket and tie south with me at the end of the month - just for the bantz!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Answer this for me Phil - and not with the "it's their bat and ball"...
What is the point of requiring a jacket over golf attire in order to have lunch..?
		
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Maybe it's because they want to have a standard of dress and people to look smart . But Doesn't matter what the point is - it's their rules , if you don't like it then don't play their - it's not any simplier than that.

If it's a course that I want to play and they require a jacket and tie then I put it on for the hour or so required


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't think the issue was the dress code itself, just that you needed to be psychic to know what it was.

It's a bit of an issue if the club doesn't explain what is required in advance. What I often notice is that even when they do it's always "jacket and tie" with no mention of a women's dress code. I might bring a jacket and tie south with me at the end of the month - *just for the bantz*!
		
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Do it!

I always threaten to wear a skirt to work as our office is ridiculously hot in summer and the ladies walk around in small tops and skirts whilst I'm stuck in a suit. 

Would love to see our 85 yr directors face!


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			It was the same at St George's hill, and also Woking. No issues with it but also don't see the point
		
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Yeah I've no issues with it and I'd where one if I wanted to play the course. Just wonder why they want people to do it in 2017?


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe it's because they want to have a standard of dress and people to look smart . But Doesn't matter what the point is - it's their rules , if you don't like it then don't play their - it's not any simplier than that.

If it's a course that I want to play and they require a jacket and tie then I put it on for the hour or so required
		
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So he asked you not to give the same old answer of "it's their club" but you did it anyway. Unbelievable


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## Ross61 (Jul 13, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't think the issue was the dress code itself, just that you needed to be psychic to know what it was.

It's a bit of an issue if the club doesn't explain what is required in advance. What I often notice is that even when they do it's always "jacket and tie" with no mention of a women's dress code. I might bring a jacket and tie south with me at the end of the month - just for the bantz!
		
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Are you saying Women are allowed in the clubhouse! Whatever next?


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## Fish (Jul 13, 2017)

It's simply tradition, and whilst there are those members still on the committees that can remember when it was never questioned, it will remain in force. 

I have no issue with the traditions of this great game and seeing them still implemented, but like many areas of that game, it doesn't need to be devalued, but at the same time unless your an exclusive invitation only or artisan style club, then if you want to play their course you simply adhere to their rules of attendance or play somewhere else if it bothers you that much. 

However, where it's simply a members club that will be well known and enjoys the fruits of many visiting societies which enables those clubs to invest that revenue in themselves and help membership fees stay controlled, there has to be a balance, and if you get that balance wrong and eventually the old guard moves on to pastures new, it's hard to turn the clock back if a poor experience has been endured, irrelevant of how decent the course is. 

Cheques and balances just like death & taxes. 

I'm all for wearing a jacket & tie AFTER my round but I do find it rather strange to have to shower & change into a J & T for a rolling lunch only to have to go back out again. 

Nowt stranger than folk as they say.


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

It is the randomness that gets me. Jacket and tie in the dining room i can just about get but jacket over golf gear sounds like pomposity for the sake of it. Always remeber at my old club the invitation day has 2 start times. Anyone finishing before 6 could have their meal wearing golf gear but those coming off the course after 6 had to wear jacket and tie


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

richy said:



			So he asked you not to give the same old answer of "it's their club" but you did it anyway. Unbelievable
		
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Because it's the right answer- it makes not one single bit of difference what their reasons are - they don't have to justify what their rules are to anyone but their own members and they are the ones who make the rules. Don't like it well just go somewhere else as a society.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't think the issue was the dress code itself, just that you needed to be psychic to know what it was.

It's a bit of an issue if the club doesn't explain what is required in advance. What I often notice is that even when they do it's always "jacket and tie" with no mention of a women's dress code. I might bring a jacket and tie south with me at the end of the month - just for the bantz!
		
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At my clubs last committee meeting dress code was raised as someone, shock horror, had been seen in the bar recently wearing a cap. Clearly that individual will now be found and flogged but whilst this was being discussed what of the committee asked about his shirt being untucked. He feels more comfortable with his shirt out as, in his words, he has a big belly &#128513;. A few members dived into him but the owner, we are not a member owned club, stated that when he watches the ladies team play they all play with their shirts out of their trousers, skirts, skorts or shorts. "We have equality in this club so if the ladies all dress this way then so can the men". I had a ridiculously large grin on my face &#128513;.

FD, do you find many clubs have dress codes for women that are equally old hat as men's sections and if so what is outdated for you?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't think the issue was the dress code itself, just that you needed to be psychic to know what it was.

It's a bit of an issue if the club doesn't explain what is required in advance. What I often notice is that even when they do it's always "jacket and tie" with no mention of a women's dress code. I might bring a jacket and tie south with me at the end of the month - just for the bantz!
		
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Sorry yes the initial OP from Sam was more about the communication from the club which was imo a bit of fault on both parties 

But as with all threads about dress codes they always go in the direction of the same people with the same cry and complaints about dress codes and the answer is the same every time - don't go to a club if you don't like their dress code - that way you won't be offended by their choice and rules


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

So if you see an attitude or behaviour that you feel is out moded or out of date it is wrong to comment against it. No female members, membership based on class or race all ok just dont go to the club if you dont like it. Personally I find it objectionable that in the 21st century people are judged by the clothes they wear but hey, its their club so maybe i should just bury my head in the sand.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			So if you see an attitude or behaviour that you feel is out moded or out of date it is wrong to comment against it. No female members, membership based on class or race all ok just dont go to the club if you dont like it. Personally I find it objectionable that in the 21st century people are judged by the clothes they wear but hey, its their club so maybe i should just bury my head in the sand.
		
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Is it not true that the judgement based on what people wear or dress codes it's from both ends of the spectrum ? How many people on this thread alone have judged a club and indeed it's members based on their dress code ? 

Discrimination based on sex or race is incomparable - they have laws to ensure they don't happen. No one is discriminated against when it comes to a dress code


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

Its the same principle based on the argument that if you feel something is not right you should just move on. Plenty of people i know at clubs feel discriminated against due to antiquated dress codes. If you want to run 2 arguments side by side it is disriminatory in many instances as the equivalent female code when the dress code is jacket and tie is smart dress or suit but you do not see that applied.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			So if you see an attitude or behaviour that you feel is out moded or out of date it is wrong to comment against it. No female members, membership based on class or race all ok just dont go to the club if you dont like it. Personally I find it objectionable that in the 21st century people are judged by the clothes they wear *but hey, its their club* so maybe i should just bury my head in the sand.
		
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Yep exactly and if they are not breaking the law they can do what ever they like but as stated, if you don't like it then don't give them your custom.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Its the same principle based on the argument that if you feel something is not right you should just move on. Plenty of people i know at clubs feel discriminated against due to antiquated dress codes. If you want to run 2 arguments side by side it is disriminatory in many instances as the equivalent female code when the dress code is jacket and tie is smart dress or suit but you do not see that applied.
		
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Why would someone be discriminated against in Regards a dress code - there is nothing stopping them going out to buy whatever is required. Sorry don't ever believe someone is being discriminated against based on a dress code. We all have choices and there is nothing stopping anyone going out to get a jacket if they want to play at a course that requires a jacket.


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because it's the right answer- it makes not one single bit of difference what their reasons are - they don't have to justify what their rules are to anyone but their own members and they are the ones who make the rules. Don't like it well just go somewhere else as a society.
		
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There is no 'right answer'. I was asking why you have to wear a jacket etc. I understand that the club set the rules and if you don't like it blah blah blah. Do you just always do as you're told like a good little boy and never question anything ?

So WHY do you have to wear a jacket? If you spew the same answer then I'll know you haven't got a scooby


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

Simply because they dont own one or do not feel comfortable in one so feel out of place or uncomfortable in an environment that is meant to be relaxed.

It really is an uncomfortable, impractical and outmoded manner of dress in most environments and many aspects of life have reached this conclusion


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

richy said:



			There is no 'right answer'. I was asking why you have to wear a jacket etc. I understand that the club set the rules and if you don't like it blah blah blah.* Do you just always do as you're told like a good little boy and never question anything ?
*

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Why when someone just decides to follow the rules they are looked at in a negative light ? Why when some has no problems conforming to rules they are a "good little boy". 



			So WHY do you have to wear a jacket? If you spew the same answer then I'll know you haven't got a scooby
		
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It's quite simple why but you don't like the answer - you can stamp your feet and throw your tantrums and demand answers but it will always be a very simple answer - because the golf club decided when they did their dress code that they would like people to dress to a smart level and would like to keep the tradition of gentlemen having to wear a jacket whilst eating in their club. And as been said - if you don't like it - tough.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Simply because they dont own one or do not feel comfortable in one so feel out of place or uncomfortable in an environment that is meant to be relaxed.

It really is an uncomfortable, impractical and outmoded manner of dress in most environments and many aspects of life have reached this conclusion
		
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But it's not discrimination and for me it cheapens the word by trying to suggest it is. It's a choice - they chose not to buy one and I for one don't find wearing a suit uncomfortable in the slightest.

But none of it is discrimination but they all have a choice


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2017)

It is sexist though. Do women have to wear jackets in the same situation? I doubt it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is sexist though. Do women have to wear jackets in the same situation? I doubt it.
		
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I have seen some clubs that do require ladies to wear a suit including the jacket.


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## moogie (Jul 13, 2017)

My view
I understand it's their club
It's their rules
We all know that rules are rules

But seriously 
We've all worn suits
We've all worn jackets
If you go out dressed with the mrs,  for a meal,  with your jacket on
I bet 99% remove said jacket whilst sat at the table and whilst eating
Probably on the back of your chair
Wearing a jacket and eating just simply don't go

So....why enforce something so farcical in a golf club environment??&#129300;


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

So you really think that the vestiges of golf club dress codes do not hark back to class disrimination


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Simply because they dont own one or do not feel comfortable in one so feel out of place or uncomfortable in an environment that is meant to be relaxed.

It really is an uncomfortable, impractical and outmoded manner of dress in most environments and many aspects of life have reached this conclusion
		
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Now THIS is the actual correct answer, not the indoctrinated one LP always throws out. It's 2017, you are allowed to think for yourself y'know.... 

You could also have a bit of fun too, either take your jacket off and tie, have it hanging round your neck or just off or even better, wear every item of clothing in a completely different non matching colour. Brown shoes, pink socks beige trousers, bright yellow or red shirt and green jacket/blazer. Oh and a non matching tie of course. All within the dress code but equally as ridiculous. 

In summary, question things, don't be a sheep. Try it Phil, you might feel liberated &#128521;


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why when someone just decides to follow the rules they are looked at in a negative light ? Why when some has no problems conforming to rules they are a "good little boy". 


It's quite simple why but you don't like the answer - you can stamp your feet and throw your tantrums and demand answers but it will always be a very simple answer - because the golf club decided when they did their dress code that they would like people to dress to a smart level and would like to keep the tradition of gentlemen having to wear a jacket whilst eating in their club. And as been said - if you don't like it - tough.
		
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:rofl:
I understand now you know how to follow a rule but not sure why. Just as I thought. Cheers


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

TheJezster said:



			Now THIS is the actual correct answer, not the indoctrinated one LP always throws out. It's 2017, you are allowed to think for yourself y'know.... 

You could also have a bit of fun too, either take your jacket off and tie, have it hanging round your neck or just off or even better, wear every item of clothing in a completely different non matching colour. Brown shoes, pink socks beige trousers, bright yellow or red shirt and green jacket/blazer. Oh and a non matching tie of course. All within the dress code but equally as ridiculous. 

In summary, question things, don't be a sheep. Try it Phil, you might feel liberated &#128521;
		
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:thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 13, 2017)

I don't get this thing about feeling uncomfortable in a suit. It is still the standard dress code in many work areas. Most field sales people wear a suit, if I had a medical condition and was referred to a specialist then chances are he would be in a suit too. 

Do people not pursue a particular occupation because they would have to wear a suit?


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## moogie (Jul 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I don't get this thing about feeling uncomfortable in a suit. It is still the standard dress code in many work areas. Most field sales people wear a suit, if I had a medical condition and was referred to a specialist then chances are he would be in a suit too. 

Who people not pursue a particular occupation because they would have to wear a suit?
		
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I'm not uncomfortable in a suit

Just not comfortable eating a meal whilst wearing a jacket

I Don't get it


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I don't get this thing about feeling uncomfortable in a suit. It is still the standard dress code in many work areas. Most field sales people wear a suit, if I had a medical condition and was referred to a specialist then chances are he would be in a suit too. 

Who people not pursue a particular occupation because they would have to wear a suit?
		
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This isn't an argument. There is a difference to wearing a suit for work, for which you are paid, to wearing one as part of your pass time. Hell its not even as part of it, its to have a bite to eat afterwards!!! 

As I said, not comparable or relevant.

I don't get this thing about certain people not getting that many people don't want to wear a suit after having a round of golf.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

richy said:



			:rofl:
I understand now you know how to follow a rule but not sure why. Just as I thought. Cheers
		
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I know why I follow rules - because I was brought up to respect rules and follow them and also continued to respect those rules during my work life. 

I'm guessing you're more the Kevin and Perry type with the constant whining "why" when told to do something or asked to follow a rule


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## FairwayDodger (Jul 13, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It is sexist though. Do women have to wear jackets in the same situation? I doubt it.
		
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The issue is more that they don't tend to specify the policy for women. I don't really consider that a jacket is necessarily the equivalent for women.

I actually changed into a frock for lunch when we played muirfield... and put a jacket on too which was a slightly odd look. In fact they had a couple of spare jackets in the ladies locker room, just in case!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

TheJezster said:



			This isn't an argument. There is a difference to wearing a suit for work, for which you are paid, to wearing one as part of your pass time. Hell its not even as part of it, its to have a bite to eat afterwards!!! 

As I said, not comparable or relevant.

I don't get this thing about certain people not getting that many people don't want to wear a suit after having a round of golf.
		
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If you don't want to wear a suit after playing golf whilst eating then you don't have - just don't go to a course that requires you to wear a suit. Then there is no problem is there


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2017)

Funnily enough I rarely see anyone in a suit now. I work in a mfr environment, electronics industry, and can't remember in the last 5 years a customer wearing a jacket and tie when I have visited one. It has reached the point now where I haven't worn one to visit a customer for 3 years+. My suit is for funerals only now. Smart trousers, smart work shirt, that's all.

I think of jackets and ties for old fashioned professions now, solicitors, accountants, bankers etc. Ties in particular I think are disappearing.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			It really is an uncomfortable, impractical and outmoded manner of dress in most environments and many aspects of life have reached this conclusion
		
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TheJezster said:



			This isn't an argument. There is a difference to wearing a suit for work, for which you are paid, to wearing one as part of your pass time. Hell its not even as part of it, its to have a bite to eat afterwards!!! 

As I said, not comparable or relevant.

I don't get this thing about certain people not getting that many people don't want to wear a suit after having a round of golf.
		
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It is relevant if a club wants to enforce it as part of their rules.

I wonder how many people that object to jacket and tie for dinner are planning to go to Hankley for the H4H day. Might be a few withdrawals when they see the dress code


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

Not following a rule and questioning why it is there are 2 totally different things. It is possible to do both


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## chellie (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you don't want to wear a suit after playing golf whilst eating then you don't have - just don't go to a course that requires you to wear a suit. Then there is no problem is there
		
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This. I'm another who can't see a problem. If I need to buy a jacket to wear at Sunningdale and NZ I will as I want to play there.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			The issue is more that they don't tend to specify the policy for women. I don't really consider that a jacket is necessarily the equivalent for women.

I actually changed into a frock for lunch when we played muirfield... and put a jacket on too which was a slightly odd look. In fact they had a couple of spare jackets in the ladies locker room, just in case!
		
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Probably one where it is best to keep quiet otherwise you will start to be on the end of silly old fashioned rules. At the moment you probably have full freedoms, although I do fully accept that gaining access to all areas in certain clubs may still be a problem or if not then things have only recently changed.


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know why I follow rules - because I was brought up to respect rules and follow them and also continued to respect those rules during my work life. 

I'm guessing you're more the Kevin and Perry type with the constant whining "why" when told to do something or asked to follow a rule
		
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Your guesses are like the many predictions you've made on here. Wrong!! :rofl:


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## Fish (Jul 13, 2017)

TheJezster said:



			You could also have a bit of fun too, either take your jacket off and tie, have it hanging round your neck or just off or even better, wear every item of clothing in a completely different non matching colour. Brown shoes, pink socks beige trousers, bright yellow or red shirt and green jacket/blazer. Oh and a non matching tie of course.
		
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You've seen Stu_C on a night out then &#128540;


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If you don't want to wear a suit after playing golf whilst eating then you don't have - just don't go to a course that requires you to wear a suit. Then there is no problem is there
		
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That my dear Phil is not the answer to the point I was raising... do keep up.  I didn't state I didn't want to play any particular course.  You don't need to keep repeating the same line over and over, it's not required


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## guest100718 (Jul 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I don't get this thing about feeling uncomfortable in a suit. It is still the standard dress code in many work areas. Most field sales people wear a suit, if I had a medical condition and was referred to a specialist then chances are he would be in a suit too. 

Do people not pursue a particular occupation because they would have to wear a suit?
		
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I work in the City and, few if any at my work wear a suit, seems to be the norm.


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Not following a rule and questioning why it is there are 2 totally different things. It is possible to do both
		
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And another correct answer. I'm really not sure why a couple of our more, shall we say, repetitive, members don't understand this. Perhaps they need to question things more and not just follow like sheep??


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

TheJezster said:



			And another correct answer. I'm really not sure why a couple of our more, shall we say, repetitive, members don't understand this. Perhaps they need to question things more and not just follow like sheep??
		
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Precisely. If I wanted to play a top course and eat afterward on the condition I wear a jacket, I'd wear one. It wouldn't stop me wondering why I was wearing one.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 13, 2017)

TheJezster said:



			And another correct answer. I'm really not sure why a couple of our more, shall we say, repetitive, members don't understand this. Perhaps they need to question things more and not just follow like sheep??
		
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Maybe you need to question that maybe those people actually enjoy the sense of occasion of putting on a jacket and tie. Just because you don't doesn't mean that they don't either.


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## guest100718 (Jul 13, 2017)

richy said:



			Precisely. If I wanted to play a top course and eat afterward on the condition I wear a jacket, I'd wear one. It wouldn't stop me wondering why I was wearing one.
		
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COme on, youve been told... its becasue the club says so..!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

TheJezster said:



			And another correct answer. I'm really not sure why a couple of our more, shall we say, repetitive, members don't understand this. Perhaps they need to question things more and not just follow like sheep??
		
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Or perhaps some don't need or see the point in wasting energy in questioning areas that in the grand scheme of things don't affect people's lives. And there is also the possibility that they don't see the issue with the dress code and actually like to wear the correct attire


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Maybe you need to question that maybe those people actually enjoy the sense of occasion of putting on a jacket and tie. Just because you don't doesn't mean that they don't either.
		
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Oh I don't need to question that, I know it to be true. That's the beauty of this world, people have differences.
Absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to dress up and wear a suit either, why would it be? It's the being forced to wear something you don't want to "because the rules say so, ner ner" that people are questioning.
Those who want to should absolutely carry on, even if not required, no question about it. That is what choice is &#128522;


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## TheJezster (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or perhaps some don't need or see the point in wasting energy in questioning areas that in the grand scheme of things don't affect people's lives. And there is also the possibility that they don't see the issue with the dress code and actually like to wear the correct attire
		
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Oh the irony... yet you'll waste time questioning those who question these out of date dress codes! &#128514;&#128514;. Brilliant! 
Point for clarification purposes though, not the 'correct' attire, the attire they are 'told' to wear. The correct attire is what each individual decides is appropriate and chooses to wear.


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## richy (Jul 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Maybe you need to question that maybe those people actually enjoy the sense of occasion of putting on a jacket and tie. Just because you don't doesn't mean that they don't either.
		
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Those people need to get a life then 

In all seriousness, if there wasn't a rule would people still wear one? If yes then why have the rule? So everyone has too, not just those that want to?


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## Fish (Jul 13, 2017)

drive4show said:



			Maybe you need to question that maybe those people actually enjoy the sense of occasion of putting on a jacket and tie. Just because you don't doesn't mean that they don't either.
		
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I have no issues with treating my day as an occasion and getting dressed up AFTER my round, but the palaver of having to shower & change into a J & T mid round and back into golf gear is very questionable imo, rules or no rules.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2017)

I get there is "tradition" about jackets for dinner and in the old days and some clubs, jacket and tie is still mandatory. However I like others don't get a jacket over golf clothing. Surely the golf clothing, especially in damp or really hot isn't going to be particularly fresh, and NO I don't subscribe that everyone would bring yet another top to change into for the sake of 30-45 minutes eating. What is the point in simply putting a jacket over the golf shirt. Ties are becoming a very outdated fashion item in all walks of life, including many top level professionals. 

I will respect a dress code. I don't agree with all of them but it's the only way to ensure you can get on and enjoy decent food and the comfort of famous and salubrious clubhouses. The "because they say so" rule is pretty lame though and I can see a point where ties become more outdated and where these clubs begin to develop a more modern feel (and they will have to move that way at some point, nothing stays the same) then perhaps this outdated dress code will got the way of the stymie


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## Imurg (Jul 13, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Maybe it's because they want to have a standard of dress and people to look smart .
		
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Smart???????
If you've ever seen someone wearing a jacket over golf attire you'll realise how ridiculous this statement is...
In what Galaxy could wearing a jacket over golf clothes look anything but utterly stupid....?

It's pompous, pure and simple. A rule for the sake of a rule.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Smart???????
If you've ever seen someone wearing a jacket over golf attire you'll realise how ridiculous this statement is...
In what Galaxy could wearing a jacket over golf clothes look anything but utterly stupid....?

It's pompous, pure and simple. A rule for the sake of a rule.
		
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Simple. Especially given the garish nature of some of the golf shirts out there


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## GB72 (Jul 13, 2017)

Jacket and tie does not necessarily equate to smart in the same way that casual attire does not necessarily equate to being a mess. A rule saying all patrons must be smartly dressed, if that is the real aim, would seem to be more apt


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Smart???????
If you've ever seen someone wearing a jacket over golf attire you'll realise how ridiculous this statement is...
In what Galaxy could wearing a jacket over golf clothes look anything but utterly stupid....?

It's pompous, pure and simple. A rule for the sake of a rule.
		
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Again it's their idea and their rule - they may and prob do see things different to you. And also my statement was aimed towards jacket and tie as opposed to jacket over golf shirt


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2017)

GB72 said:



			Jacket and tie does not necessarily equate to smart in the same way that casual attire does not necessarily equate to being a mess. A rule saying all patrons must be smartly dressed, if that is the real aim, would seem to be more apt
		
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It would be a far more common sense policy but the argument would always be define smartly dressed. It is not that clear cut though is it and how would a club police it.


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## DCB (Jul 13, 2017)

Just wait until a club brings in a rule relating to the colour of your underwear   &#128521;


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2017)

DCB said:



			Just wait until a club brings in a rule relating to the colour of your underwear   &#128521;
		
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What if you go commando?


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## Wilson (Jul 13, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			A golf course in fantastic condition, with exceptional par 3s, and number of very similar par 4s.

imo not in the same league as the 3 Ws, Hankley or St George's, but still a good course.

the professional clearly doesn't like 'the club' 

the 'club' - backward, old fashioned and stuck up their own backsides
		
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Thanks.


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## MendieGK (Jul 13, 2017)

Well this got out of hand .....


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## Slab (Jul 14, 2017)

Letâ€™s face it this is about the â€˜traditionâ€™ of changing for lunch (into whatever, in this case its stipulated as a jacket & tie) presented under the guise of a Dress Code

Is it a tradition at all? 
Iâ€™ve no doubt that for some social classes changing for lunch was very much the norm or tradition (itâ€™s easy to imagine the upper class doing this in the early 20th century and its depicted in period productions, even when dining at home) So for those at a certain social or class level its undoubtedly a tradition

But similarly Iâ€™ve never seen it used historically as normal practice for the common man (or woman, _thanks Monty_) to change for lunch. Yes I can imagine many working class folks might well change for dinner especially in mixed company or eating out... but not lunch. So unless they visited an upper class venue (which they didnâ€™t) it was never a tradition to change for lunch 

The main distinction I can think of from those whoâ€™d see it as tradition to those it wasnâ€™t traditional for, is based primarily on a personâ€™s wealth/social status (so a tradition within a class divide)

Can you imagine these traditional clubs even stipulating a dress code a hundred years ago! No of course they wouldnâ€™t, they didnâ€™t need to because the only people allowed in would automatically comply with the expected dress because of their class standing (those that didnâ€™t belong werenâ€™t there anyway)

If Iâ€™m kind I could say the club wants you to treat a visit to their course as something very special so please dress up
If Iâ€™m harsh Iâ€™d say itâ€™s an throwback to an outdated â€˜them & usâ€™ class system and some clubs donâ€™t want to let that go 

But these days itâ€™s common enough for everyone to know that if they are visiting a posh place then posh dress will be required regardless of time of day, i.e dress appropriately for the venue/functionâ€¦ so the real question is: 

Is your golf club seen by you or others as a place befitting of a jacket & tie in order to be seated for lunch?


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## Fish (Jul 14, 2017)

Slab said:



			The main distinction I can think of from those whoâ€™d see it as tradition to those it wasnâ€™t traditional for, is based primarily on a personâ€™s wealth/social status (so a tradition within a class divide)

Can you imagine these traditional clubs even stipulating a dress code a hundred years ago! No of course they wouldnâ€™t, they didnâ€™t need to because the only people allowed in would automatically comply with the expected dress because of their class standing (those that didnâ€™t belong werenâ€™t there anyway)

If Iâ€™m kind I could say the club wants you to treat a visit to their course as something very special so please dress up
If Iâ€™m harsh Iâ€™d say itâ€™s an throwback to an outdated â€˜them & usâ€™ class system and some clubs donâ€™t want to let that go 

*But these days itâ€™s common enough for everyone to know that if they are visiting a posh place then posh dress will be required regardless of time of day, i.e dress appropriately for the venue/functionâ€¦*

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You make a good point and one that I think a few were leaning towards but described it incorrectly as being discriminatory, but in all honestly, it is what they are attempting to hang onto, an age old discriminative attitude between them and us and us (the club) being the upper class golf club that them (the lower classes) will have to pull out all the stops to play there and fit in on the day by dressing up accordingly, and knowing that many won't or can't, they simply keep those that they feel are unworthy to play on their hollowed course or walk their corridors, away by there very disguised discriminative rules!

However, I don't agree with your comments in bold, I think this has become more relaxed a great deal over the last few years.  I eat out a lot, and even in Michelin Star restaurants I'm not required to get dressed up.

My 'smart but casual' attire will comfortably outprice most people in a suit or J&T so it's not about affordability or class distinction in those establishments, it's about being able to enjoy the experience and more importantly, their food, which if having to sit in a jacket of any kind would spoil.

You could have a fantastic day on a great golf course, enjoy every aspect of the golf, then be subjected to having to change at lunch into a J&T, then back into golf attire to finish your days golf then it's back into a J&T again no doubt having to bring 2 different shirts with you to enjoy, hopefully, the meal afterwards.....so, what is it you will remember about that day the most?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Well this got out of hand .....
		
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I've yet to see a dress code thread that doesn't go the same way. In a month a similar thread will occur and exactly the same points will be made. All good fun though and it allows a certain releasing of steam &#128513;. 

I'm not sure how many on here will cope when Comrade Corbyn comes into power and scraps all dress codes as part of his class war revolution. There could be tears &#128561;


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## Slab (Jul 14, 2017)

Fish said:



			You make a good point and one that I think a few were leaning towards but described it incorrectly as being discriminatory, but in all honestly, it is what they are attempting to hang onto, an age old discriminative attitude between them and us and us (the club) being the upper class golf club that them (the lower classes) will have to pull out all the stops to play there and fit in on the day by dressing up accordingly, and knowing that many won't or can't, they simply keep those that they feel are unworthy to play on their hollowed course or walk their corridors, away by there very disguised discriminative rules!
*
However, I don't agree with your comments in bold, I think this has become more relaxed a great deal over the last few years.  I eat out a lot, and even in Michelin Star restaurants I'm not required to get dressed up.*

My 'smart but casual' attire will comfortably outprice most people in a suit or J&T so it's not about affordability or class distinction in those establishments, it's about being able to enjoy the experience and more importantly, their food, which if having to sit in a jacket of any kind would spoil.

You could have a fantastic day on a great golf course, enjoy every aspect of the golf, then be subjected to having to change at lunch into a J&T, then back into golf attire to finish your days golf then it's back into a J&T again no doubt having to bring 2 different shirts with you to enjoy, hopefully, the meal afterwards.....so, what is it you will remember about that day the most?
		
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Yeah I agree in terms of restaurants/eating out 
I was talking in the wider sense to encompass everything from a mates house for a Bar-Be-Q through to weddings/gala dinners etc. Most folk know what the expectation is

My poshest after golf lunch was at a Michelin star resort with a 9-holer. Course was just OK but the food superb. A change out of golf gear of shorts/polos into more shorts and polos for most of us, great nosh and not a jacket or tie in sight, as you say a very memorable day for the food but no idea what I scored


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 14, 2017)

I like to have a choice. Sometimes it's nice to dress up other times tee shirt and jeans are fine. Seems some people on here want to drag everything down to the lowest common denominator which would remove that choice.


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## North Mimms (Jul 14, 2017)

I'm a member at a fairly traditional Club where men are still expected to change into jacket and tie in dining room. (I'm not sure what the policy is for society days playing 36 holes but I'll find out.) 
For mixed events, the "equivalent" for women seems to be anything apart golf clothing! 
Casual or smart dresses, skirt and top, and a lot of smart tops and trousers. In many years of such events, I don't think I've ever worn anything "smart" enough for a job interview or a wedding.


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## Ross61 (Jul 14, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I like to have a choice. Sometimes it's nice to dress up other times tee shirt and jeans are fine. Seems some people on here want to drag everything down to the lowest common denominator which would remove that choice.
		
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I don't understand your point. How is dragging it down to the lowest common denominator removing your choice? No one is saying you can't wear a jacket and tie if you wish to. Are you saying you would feel uncomfortable wearing a jacket when nobody else is? If so, why should everyone else wear a jacket just so you can?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Jul 14, 2017)

â€œThe lounge suit was coined years ago. It was a very informal (by 19th century standards of noble gentleman, of course) garment which was meant only to be worn for sports, the country or seaside events.â€

Then, the suit came to the menswear furore in the mid-19th century, and quickly became both a casual garment for the posh and a Sunday best-item for the working class. Think off-duty gentleman, when a tuxedo and tails were OTT.


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Serious question....
What is the point of that?
I can understand jacket and tie or neither but to go half and half is just ridiculous...Jacket over golf gear..?
Someone's been at the Port ....
		
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So you put your jacket on over your golf gear, walk in, sit down, then talk your jacket off because you're indoors and it's warm. Well worth it!


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## Orikoru (Jul 14, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't think the issue was the dress code itself, just that you needed to be psychic to know what it was.

It's a bit of an issue if the club doesn't explain what is required in advance. What I often notice is that even when they do it's always "jacket and tie" with no mention of a women's dress code. I might bring a jacket and tie south with me at the end of the month - just for the bantz!
		
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That's probably because women aren't allowed to sit at the table with the men at these type of places. :lol:


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## DaveR (Jul 14, 2017)

MendieGK said:



			Firstly let me say - i have no issues with whatever dress code a golf course wishes to employ. Its their club they can make their rules.

However - Who is responsible for making you aware of those Rules For a whole society day not a normal 4 ball? 
(bear in mind this club does NOT have a website and does not communicate via email)
		
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I would say both parties. As an organiser I would ask the question but any society bookings I've been involved with (not many just the odd one now and again) the club have usually provided all the necessary info via letter or email.


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## arnieboy (Jul 14, 2017)

The guys in our society all wear jacket and tie for dinner at all the clubs we go to and the first announcement of the evening is that they can take their jackets off. Why do we bother in the first place?


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## HDID Kenny (Jul 14, 2017)

A 'Green Jacket' looks perfectly fine over golf gear.....if only &#128514;

I would prefer not to wear a jacket & tie between round of golf, that's just plain nuts. Packed lunch or a Mac D drive through for me at NZ I think &#127828;&#127839;


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## Canary Kid (Aug 31, 2017)

Thought I would put this here as it is broadly relevant, rather than start a new thread.

I played a course for the first time a couple of weeks ago and was wearing smart trousers and an equally smart new polo shirt.  The guy in the pro shop, clearly embarrassed, said to me "I'm sorry to ask you, but could you please tuck your shirt in ... the members might object".  It was no skin off my nose and I did so.  However, as I went round the course, I saw a number of guys in scruffy old trousers and tatty old shirts ... albeit shirts that were tucked in.

Now, I can certainly see the need for some sort of dress code, and I understand that a club can make what rules it likes, but is a guy in scruffy trousers and a tatty old shirt, albeit tucked in, REALLY preferable to one in smart trousers and polo shirt not tucked in?  I should add that my own club has the same requirement, but I've never seen it enforced ... action seems to be proportionate and reserved only for flagrant breaches, such as football shorts and sleeveless tops.  But it is the rule and I would comply if asked.

Research shows that potential new players are put off golf because of its stuffy image and I think that this sort of rule is a perfect example of what they mean.


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## Crazyface (Aug 31, 2017)

It's fairly casual at my place, with the Pro not brave enough to enforce the dress code we have on the website. Shirts are out, any khaki trousers or shorts allowed, and with those pump type golf shoes, who can tell what players are wearing? The members don't care about it as long as the visitors are paying the dosh. Casual in the clubhouse as well, as it is used mainly on comp day for a (very popular) carvery, who's going to turn away a paying customer in jeans? No one! I've even seen members in in the clubhouse in flip flops in the summer or those croc things.


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## jim8flog (Aug 31, 2017)

Wells Golf Club had an EGM called to have a vote to decide

'Shirts tucked in or left out' 

The 'left out' won.

I play with some guys who wear the same well known brand of shirt every time they play and having been wearing it for as long as I can remember.

I used to play the same course week after week as a visitor. I always used to wear my oldest bit of kit because they had decided to line the fairways with hawthorn bushes and you could guarantee some part getting a small snag when trying recover a ball from within them.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 31, 2017)

jim8flog said:



			Wells Golf Club had an EGM called to have a vote to decide

'Shirts tucked in or left out' 

The 'left out' won.

I play with some guys who wear the same well known brand of shirt every time they play and having been wearing it for as long as I can remember.

I used to play the same course week after week as a visitor. I always used to wear my oldest bit of kit because they had decided to line the fairways with hawthorn bushes and you could guarantee some part getting a small snag when trying recover a ball from within them.
		
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We had the same - after a 6month trial period the membership voted 1) shirts tucked in on the course unless styled to be work out 2) clean jeans and trainers can be worn in the clubhouse.

Polo shirts are def in the 'tucked-in' category.  I have been pulled up on it.  Not bothered.  Them's the rules.  Good to be able to wear jeans and trainers in the clubhouse.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 31, 2017)

I don't get the "tucked in" rule, seems quite pointless and petty.


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## Canary_Yellow (Aug 31, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't get the "tucked in" rule, seems quite pointless and petty.
		
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I don't either, but equally I'm not bothered about tucking mine in.

I agree with the general point though that a lot of people that conform with the rules actually look quite scruffy.


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## DaveR (Aug 31, 2017)

You can police a dress code but you can't really define what is scruffy. A tatty pair of trousers might be perfectly presentable to someone else so all you can do is define what rules the item(s) of clothing must adhere to.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 31, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't get the "tucked in" rule, seems quite pointless and petty.
		
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In my place the membership majority view was that during the trial period blokes wearing shirts out just looked a bit scruffy and untidy.  Maybe we should have tried harder.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I don't get the "tucked in" rule, seems quite pointless and petty.
		
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At my place the owner, we are not a members club, pointed out that nearly all female golfers have their tops untucked and so rather than upset all of them he offered equality the other way and so men and women can untuck away. I'm with you, I don't understand that particular issue.

How long before the usual reply, "don't play the course if you don't like the dress code"?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 31, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At my place the owner, we are not a members club, pointed out that nearly all female golfers have their tops untucked and so rather than upset all of them he offered equality the other way and so men and women can untuck away. I'm with you, I don't understand that particular issue.

How long before the usual reply, "don't play the course if you don't like the dress code"?
		
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If the membership of my place had decided that we blokes were capable of dressing tidily 'untucked' then we would have voted for that.  Though we are a traditional members club we are not _dyed in the wool_ traditionalists - after all - we approved wearing of jeans and trainers in the clubhouse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			At my place the owner, we are not a members club, pointed out that nearly all female golfers have their tops untucked and so rather than upset all of them he offered equality the other way and so men and women can untuck away. I'm with you, I don't understand that particular issue.

How long before the usual reply, "don't play the course if you don't like the dress code"?
		
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It's the usual reply because it's the most appropriate reply 

If you are a member of a club and don't agree with the dress code then you can look to change it by seeing if the members agree with you - many clubs have adjusted dress codes because people have stood up and asked 

If your a visitor then it's always correct and proper to respect the rules of that club , it's their club and they want to run it that way - as you have said - if you don't like that code and don't want to follow it then don't play the course - if it's that bad then the club will suffer but I suspect there isn't many top clubs in the country suffering because of their dress code


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 31, 2017)

How long? Not long :rofl:

Most rules in clubs are etched in stone tablets. A hard core are on committees and they make the decisions. My own experience, I have been on two committess, are if those hard core don't want to change then things stay as they are. It could be two people, chairman and secretary that hold the key. It is not a big enough deal to launch a cout over but it means that clubs are left with antiquated rules. Members don't really get a say over this, it rarely gets to SwingIt's stage where a vote occurs and it is not a big enough deal to sufficient existing members to bring about an AGM vote. We are British, we will just grumble and get on with it or grumble and shuffle elsewhere.


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## Imurg (Aug 31, 2017)

Even after all this time, nobody has ever been able to give a reason for having dress codes other than "because they want to"....
If the sexuality of someone shouldn't stop them playing golf why should what they wear prevent it..?


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Even after all this time, nobody has ever been able to give a reason for having dress codes other than "because they want to"....
If the sexuality of someone shouldn't stop them playing golf why should what they wear prevent it..?
		
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I believe a lot of golf clubs like to keep a good number of the standards and traditions that have evolved through the game over time. Most other sports have the same sort of dress codes of what must be worn. 

For me i like it - I having to tuck my shirt in and wear smart golfing attire and the correct footwear - it doesn't bother me one single bit. 

When it comes to reasons not to play the game I would stick what people wear pretty close to the bottom of the pile.


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 31, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			How long? Not long :rofl:

Most rules in clubs are etched in stone tablets. A hard core are on committees and they make the decisions. My own experience, I have been on two committess, are if those hard core don't want to change then things stay as they are. It could be two people, chairman and secretary that hold the key. It is not a big enough deal to launch a cout over but it means that clubs are left with antiquated rules. Members don't really get a say over this, it rarely gets to SwingIt's stage where a vote occurs and it is not a big enough deal to sufficient existing members to bring about an AGM vote. We are British, we will just grumble and get on with it or grumble and shuffle elsewhere.
		
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My own experience being a member at a members golf club that if you want to change something you can bring it to an AGM and people have been successful - allowing jeans in the clubhouse a perfect example , it was presented to the membership then a vote and was passed. If it's a true members club then they must get a say


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 31, 2017)

Imurg said:



			Even after all this time, nobody has ever been able to give a reason for having dress codes other than "because they want to"....
If the sexuality of someone shouldn't stop them playing golf why should what they wear prevent it..?
		
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I while I agree with you, I do feel obliged to point out the difference here is that you can choose what to wear but not your sexuality.


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## Imurg (Aug 31, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			I while I agree with you, I do feel obliged to point out the difference here is that you can choose what to wear but not your sexuality.
		
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Absolutely. But the principle is the same.
What should matter is how you conduct yourself - nothing more, nothing less.


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## mikejohnchapman (Aug 31, 2017)

I think things are just evolving.

In the past I was told I had to wear knee length socks wth shorts, change for lunch, jacket and tie in the clubhouse at all times, ....

Thankfully things are now a lot more reasonable and to be honest some of the golf clothing available is of questionable taste at best.

Golf is in the entertainment sector and is having to evolve to survive. If kids want to emulate their heros and wear collarless shirts, lycra tops, trainer type soft spikes, then it's difficult to argue against it.

The LPGA tried to impose a dress code earlier this year and look at the reaction they got!

Now if someone can explain smart casual to me ........


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## arnieboy (Aug 31, 2017)

Like many clubs we have relaxed our dress code on and off the course. I played with one guy this week who wore one green sock and one red just to wind everyone up! And he got away with it.


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## User 105 (Aug 31, 2017)

Funny this should be raised again. I think last time I posted that Knebworth was one of the most traditional (i.e. Stuck in the dark ages) clubs I know and have a pretty draconian dress code.

I got an e-mail from the club this morning that after the recent members survey they are relaxing the dress code for the bar. You're now allowed to wear smart jeans, trainers and a collared top. But no-tee shirts or sandles.

Almost fell off my chair, thought it was April 1st. 

Shows things can change I guess.

Interested in how many other clubs do members surveys to gauge interest in 'popular' changes to club rules rather than need someone to propose at an AGM etc


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## jim8flog (Aug 31, 2017)

We have no control over what is worn in the clubhouse.

We franchised out our catering and it is open to all comers, regardless of whether or not they are playing golf. What goes on in the lounge and dining room is down to the caterers and I do not see them turning down business because of what a person is wearing.

Previously we had a reasonably relaxed dress code anyway.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 31, 2017)

Mixed messages at my club. Shirts for men must be tucked in on the course. However if they are tailored (have the V cuts on the sides) they are allowed to be untucked in the clubhouse. Women it seems are free to be untucked regardless. Does it bother me? Not a jot. I'll simply abide to the rules and if I play away, ensure I'm tucked in at all times to avoid any potential embarrassment


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## r0wly86 (Sep 1, 2017)

The "because it's their club and their rules" argument is a good one for why you must adhere to the dress code if you want to play there.

It is not an argument against why we cannot simultaenously adhere to the current rules and find the rule antiquated and wrong and try to change them.

How would some of these stuffy old clubs react to someone wearing the Nike AeroReact shirt, which basically doesn't have a collar and some of the new trainer style golf shoes. Would they react the same if Jason Day rocked up to play in the same gear.

Golf unfairly has an image with the wider public as old fashioned, discrimiatory and rum by stuffy old white guys who want to keep things as it has always been. The vast majority of clubs are not like this, many will allow more comfortable wear in the club house. It's the high profile clubs that give golf a bad name.

Trying to persuade non-golfers that Muirfield was an exception not to allow women members was the devil's own job. The more of these old fashion clubs join the 21st century (20th century for some of them would be a good step) the better for golf as a whole


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## jim8flog (Sep 1, 2017)

I noticed in the club house yesterday that one of our long term Societies had a meet, mainly older guys with a lot of ex captains and directors.

 Years ago all of them would be sat at the dining table in jacket and tie yesterday there was just one and the jacket very quickly came off.

We had a  funny a few weeks ago. Away match directive came out - casual clothes but no shorts for after match meal.  More than half of the home team were wearing shorts.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 1, 2017)

r0wly86 said:



			Golf unfairly has an image with the wider public as old fashioned, discrimiatory and rum by stuffy old white guys who want to keep things as it has always been. The vast majority of clubs are not like this, many will allow more comfortable wear in the club house. It's the high profile clubs that give golf a bad name.
		
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This image is well deserved, unfortunately, and things still need to change drastically to dispel it. Progress is being made but painfully slowly.


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## r0wly86 (Sep 1, 2017)

FairwayDodger said:



			This image is well deserved, unfortunately, and things still need to change drastically to dispel it. Progress is being made but painfully slowly.
		
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The reason why I say it is undeserved is because it is only a small minority of clubs albeit the higher profile clubs are actually like the reputation golf has in general. If you walked into the the vast vast majority of local clubs up and down the land you would usually be very warmly welcomed.

The problem is the high profile clubs, like Muirfield and Wentworth are the ones the non-playing public know about because they are on TV and host the big tournaments, this si why golf has such a reputation.

For instance I play at Hampton Court Palace Golf Club, it is a very old club, starting in the mid 19th century. In the grounds of Home Park a Grade 1 Historical site and a Site of Special Scientific Interest, with views of Hampton Court and Long Water on the course. In terms of setting it's about as prestigious as you can get, and apparently used to be a very stuffy old fashioned club. But now it is super friendly, you can where jeans, trainers and t-shirts in the club house, as long as they reasonably smart. This means frends and family who aren't necessarily golfers can come down to the club. In my experience most clubs I have played are like this, but whenever I tell a non-golfer I play at HCPGC I get a look of quiet judgement that I play at a snooty old boys club


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## Orikoru (Sep 1, 2017)

r0wly86 said:



			The reason why I say it is undeserved is because it is only a small minority of clubs albeit the higher profile clubs are actually like the reputation golf has in general. If you walked into the the vast vast majority of local clubs up and down the land you would usually be very warmly welcomed.

The problem is the high profile clubs, like Muirfield and Wentworth are the ones the non-playing public know about because they are on TV and host the big tournaments, this si why golf has such a reputation.

For instance I play at Hampton Court Palace Golf Club, it is a very old club, starting in the mid 19th century. In the grounds of Home Park a Grade 1 Historical site and a Site of Special Scientific Interest, with views of Hampton Court and Long Water on the course. In terms of setting it's about as prestigious as you can get, and apparently used to be a very stuffy old fashioned club. But now it is super friendly, you can where jeans, trainers and t-shirts in the club house, as long as they reasonably smart. This means frends and family who aren't necessarily golfers can come down to the club. In my experience most clubs I have played are like this, but whenever I tell a non-golfer I play at HCPGC I get a look of quiet judgement that I play at a snooty old boys club
		
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Yeah, my club is very relaxed - although it is a public council-run course to be fair. Their dress code is very laid back - simply that collared shirts, tailored trousers/shorts and golf shoes must be worn. In the clubhouse I don't even think there's any dress code. Never seen one mentioned anywhere anyway. I'm usually just wearing my golf stuff in there anyway so I haven't needed to check - but I recall when I went down to meet the club sec for the first time I was wearing jeans (didn't think anything of it) and he didn't say anything.

Edit: Meant to say most of the local clubs I've played are near this sort of level. The most strict I've been to said hats off and shoes rather than trainers in the clubhouse, but that was it.


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