# SSS question



## Rlburnside (May 31, 2016)

Our course is Par 71 SSS 69, we have a par 4 at 451 yards, could we change this hole to a par 5,so we would have Par 72 SSS 70

Could we just do this ourselfs ? Or would the the course have to be assessed again and the golf Union involved?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 31, 2016)

You can make the changes and then an assessor comes to the course to verify the SSS and par


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## bobmac (May 31, 2016)

I am curious why you want to change it?


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## Crow (May 31, 2016)

Without any changes to the course I'd guess that SSS would remain at 69 as that's still the expected gross total score.


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## Imurg (May 31, 2016)

Possibly it makes the course appear more attractive - par 72 "sounds" better than par 71.
My first club was a 9 hole par 68 - when they extended to 18 they specifically designed a hole to be a bit longer to be able to make the course par 71 and therefore longer, higher par and "better" than my current club which is Par 70


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## patricks148 (May 31, 2016)

you might find that at 450 yards the SSS might not change as its still an easy hole to the a scratch player could reach easily in two still and make birdie..

so you still have and sss of 69 par 72 as its calculated what a scratch player would score.


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## rosecott (May 31, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Our course is Par 71 SSS 69, we have a par 4 at 451 yards, could we change this hole to a par 5,so we would have Par 72 SSS 70

Could we just do this ourselfs ? Or would the the course have to be assessed again and the golf Union involved?
		
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It is up to the club to set the par for each hole within the parameters laid down by CONGU. The SSS is based on the course as a whole so would be unlikely to change if the course length remains unchanged.


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## duncan mackie (May 31, 2016)

As has been suggested, the course hasn't changed so the SSS will not change.

In my experience the bigger the gap between Par and SSS the more confused people get as to their true performance. Ie a worse than pointless exercise.


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## Rlburnside (May 31, 2016)

bobmac said:



			I am curious why you want to change it?
		
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Our course is one of the hardest I've played and I've been playing for over 25 years, 
we get very little run on the ball even in summer, and it's generally aceppted that if our members were to play elsewhere there h/cs would be 3 shots lower.

The hole I mention generally plays into a prevailing wind and given that we get little run on the ball this makes it very hard .

I recently played 6 courses two in England and four in Scotland, each course was easier than ours, three of the courses had par 5s shorter than our par 4 451 yard hole.

On these 6 courses I was getting a minimum of 40 yards run on two shots into par 4s and par 5s, so if you add all this run on the ball during the round it's like playing a extra par 4 on our course.


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## Rlburnside (May 31, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies btw.


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## Crow (May 31, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Our course is one of the hardest I've played and I've been playing for over 25 years, 
*we get very little run on the ball even in summer*, and it's generally aceppted that if our members were to play elsewhere there h/cs would be 3 shots lower.

The hole I mention generally plays into a prevailing wind and given that we get little run on the ball this makes it very hard .

I recently played 6 courses two in England and four in Scotland, each course was easier than ours, three of the courses had par 5s shorter than our par 4 451 yard hole.

On these 6 courses I was getting a minimum of 40 yards run on two shots into par 4s and par 5s, so if you add all this run on the ball during the round it's like playing a extra par 4 on our course.
		
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What's the reason for the little run?
Could there be a simple solution of asking your greenkeeper to cut the fairways and first cut of rough a little lower?

To get the extra shot on SSS you'd have to add some yardage to the course or additional hazards and then get it reassessed.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 1, 2016)

Crow said:



			What's the reason for the little run?
Could there be a simple solution of asking your greenkeeper to cut the fairways and first cut of rough a little lower?

To get the extra shot on SSS you'd have to add some yardage to the course or additional hazards and then get it reassessed.
		
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Ours is not what you would call a normal course we have pick and place all year, our club is run by volunteers including the green keeper, not for us the nice manicured fairways most are used to.


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## patricks148 (Jun 1, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Our course is one of the hardest I've played and I've been playing for over 25 years, 
we get very little run on the ball even in summer, and it's generally aceppted that if our members were to play elsewhere there h/cs would be 3 shots lower.

The hole I mention generally plays into a prevailing wind and given that we get little run on the ball this makes it very hard .

I recently played 6 courses two in England and four in Scotland, each course was easier than ours, three of the courses had par 5s shorter than our par 4 451 yard hole.

On these 6 courses I was getting a minimum of 40 yards run on two shots into par 4s and par 5s, so if you add all this run on the ball during the round it's like playing a extra par 4 on our course.
		
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but with your SSS being 2 under par that suggests its an easier course. The SSS is standard scratch score... so a calculation of whats a scratch player would score at the course. so he would shoot 69.

 for instance a cat 1 player would have to shoot under par net to just make buffer.


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## delc (Jun 1, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Our course is Par 71 SSS 69, we have a par 4 at 451 yards, could we change this hole to a par 5,so we would have Par 72 SSS 70

Could we just do this ourselfs ? Or would the the course have to be assessed again and the golf Union involved?
		
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Unless you lengthen the hole or change it to make it more difficult to make a 4, the SSS will remain exactly the same!  Pointless exercise!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jun 1, 2016)

I'm intrigued to know which course this is?


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## Old Skier (Jun 1, 2016)

drive4show said:



			I'm intrigued to know which course this is?
		
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As am I, they must be winning a fair amount of county comps if they can play other courses 2 under their handicap


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## Rlburnside (Jun 1, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			but with your SSS being 2 under par that suggests its an easier course. The SSS is standard scratch score... so a calculation of whats a scratch player would score at the course. so he would shoot 69.

 for instance a cat 1 player would have to shoot under par net to just make buffer.
		
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I can assure you it's not a easy course, I understand what the SSS means, I would think any scratch player playing our course for the first 5 times wouldn't break par,to give a example we had a pro here a few years ago and he never broke par on our course.:thup:


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## patricks148 (Jun 1, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			I can assure you it's not a easy course, I understand what the SSS means, I would think any scratch player playing our course for the first 5 times wouldn't break par,to give a example we had a pro here a few years ago and he never broke par on our course.:thup:
		
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What is the css every week?


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## Rlburnside (Jun 1, 2016)

drive4show said:



			I'm intrigued to know which course this is?
		
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Our course is Whalsay Golf Club in Shetland the most northerly course in the UK.

On the plus side our course has views to match any course in the UK, the SGU described our 18th as one of the best finishing holes in Scotland, our signature hole the par 4 16th is played from a elevated tee high on a cliff top with sea views that on a fine day are stunning.

I have seen pods of killer whales, minke whales,porpoises, otters from our course.

But I would lay odds that anyone on this forum wouldn't play to their  h/c. on our course.:thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Our course is Whalsay Golf Club in Shetland the most northerly course in the UK.

On the plus side our course has views to match any course in the UK, the SGU described our 18th as one of the best finishing holes in Scotland, our signature hole the par 4 16th is played from a elevated tee high on a cliff top with sea views that on a fine day are stunning.

I have seen pods of killer whales, minke whales,porpoises, otters from our course.

But I would lay odds that anyone on this forum wouldn't play to their  h/c. on our course.:thup:
		
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When I went to Saxa Vord for a bit I played that course and it was lovely but very windy and tough


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## Rlburnside (Jun 1, 2016)

patricks148 said:



			What is the css every week?
		
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The last 5 comps. the css has been, 4 at 73 and one at 70.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 1, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When I went to Saxa Vord for a bit I played that course and it was lovely but very windy and tough
		
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I bet you didn't shoot to your h/c that day

Did you get that PM I sent you re our bet?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 1, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			I bet you didn't shoot to your h/c that day

Did you get that PM I sent you re our bet?
		
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Didn't have one but didn't break 100 

Sorry yes I forgot to reply


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## rosecott (Jun 1, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			The last 5 comps. the css has been, 4 at 73 and one at 70.
		
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Hold on a bit. SSS 69 cannot lead to CSS 73.


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## Foxholer (Jun 1, 2016)

rosecott said:



			Hold on a bit. SSS 69 cannot lead to CSS 73.
		
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It would be CSS 73/RO


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## Rlburnside (Jun 1, 2016)

rosecott said:



			Hold on a bit. SSS 69 cannot lead to CSS 73.
		
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Two were RO two not, I'm not sure how this is worked out but our scores are done on Master Scoreboard .


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## rosecott (Jun 2, 2016)

Foxholer said:



			It would be CSS 73/RO
		
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Of course you meant 72/RO.

Just looked up Masterscoreboard and it's par 71, SSS 70 and not 69 as OP said - so it can be CSS 73.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 2, 2016)

rosecott said:



			Of course you meant 72/RO.

Just looked up Masterscoreboard and it's par 71, SSS 70 and not 69 as OP said - so it can be CSS 73.
		
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Yes my mistake I was looking at a card that gave the SSS of the yellows.


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## chrisd (Jun 2, 2016)

duncan mackie said:



			As has been suggested, the course hasn't changed so the SSS will not change.

In my experience the bigger the gap between Par and SSS the more confused people get as to their true performance. Ie a worse than pointless exercise.
		
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Ours was always par 71 sss 70 off whites, we had it re examined as it seems we wanted par and sss the same and, without any changes that's what we got


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## duncan mackie (Jun 2, 2016)

chrisd said:



			Ours was always par 71 sss 70 off whites, we had it re examined as it seems we wanted par and sss the same and, without any changes that's what we got
		
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I would have rated yours like that - it's just one of those courses that plays tougher than it looks on paper or in the flesh. It was one of the course that I believed would get a difference out of the revised rating system and may even get a greater bogey index, and therefore slope for higher handicaps,  in due course. The other one in the area is Langley Park.


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## chrisd (Jun 2, 2016)

duncan mackie said:



			I would have rated yours like that - it's just one of those courses that plays tougher than it looks on paper or in the flesh. It was one of the course that I believed would get a difference out of the revised rating system and may even get a greater bogey index, and therefore slope for higher handicaps,  in due course. The other one in the area is Langley Park.
		
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I wasn't aware that the system had changed but absolutely agree with your sentiment


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## Foxholer (Jun 2, 2016)

chrisd said:



			Ours was always par 71 sss 70 off whites, we had it re examined as it seems we wanted par and sss the same and, without any changes that's what we got
		
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Pretty sure the 're-raters' will also look at history of CSS. And if it's generally more than Par, they might adjust up, expecially if the 'distance' parameter that is the main parameter for CSS is also near a boundary.


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## rosecott (Jun 2, 2016)

rosecott said:



			Hold on a bit. SSS 69 cannot lead to CSS 73.
		
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Foxholer said:



			It would be CSS 73/RO
		
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The maximum that CSS can be is SSS+3(RO), therefore SSS 69 can only reach CSS 72(RO).


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## duncan mackie (Jun 2, 2016)

Foxholer said:



			Pretty sure the 're-raters' will also look at history of CSS. And if it's generally more than Par, they might adjust up, expecially if the 'distance' parameter that is the main parameter for CSS is also near a boundary.
		
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For a closed group, as many clubs effectively are for handicapping and their course,  the rating is pretty much self correcting ie over time the players handicaps will distort to the  SSS (which is one of the factors as to how they become strong or weak when travelling)


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 2, 2016)

We made some changes to our coirse including swapping a few hole pars about and our SSS was increased


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## Sponge1980 (Jun 2, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Our course is Whalsay Golf Club in Shetland the most northerly course in the UK.

On the plus side our course has views to match any course in the UK, the SGU described our 18th as one of the best finishing holes in Scotland, our signature hole the par 4 16th is played from a elevated tee high on a cliff top with sea views that on a fine day are stunning.

I have seen pods of killer whales, minke whales,porpoises, otters from our course.

But I would lay odds that anyone on this forum wouldn't play to their  h/c. on our course.:thup:
		
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Your 19th hole is pretty good too. Played your course a few years ago. Great course and great members too.


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## Rlburnside (Jun 3, 2016)

Sponge1980 said:



			Your 19th hole is pretty good too. Played your course a few years ago. Great course and great members too.
		
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Thanks,

I Played in the Inter County at Stromness a few years ago, had a great weekend,and your 19th is pretty special too.:thup:


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## Sponge1980 (Jun 3, 2016)

Rlburnside said:



			Thanks,

I Played in the Inter County at Stromness a few years ago, had a great weekend,and your 19th is pretty special too.:thup:
		
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It's at Stromness again this year :cheers:


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