# joining fees



## williamalex1 (Feb 10, 2013)

In the last few years, quite a few longterm members have left to join other clubs. Then  rejoin 1or2 years later with no joinjng fee and maybe even a discounted membership offer.
This is great for the golfer,but seemingly more difficult for the club to budget for the following year 
Should fees be applied somewhere , to keep existing members,  or is it a catch 22.

what do you guys think


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

Joining fees put members off in my opinion. Have a decent track which is well run then people will stay. 

Only top clubs can still happily advertise joining fees however even now they are seeing a huge drop in prospective new members.


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## Val (Feb 10, 2013)

It's a buyers market now, clubs want members badly and will do what's needed to secure them.


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## Lump (Feb 10, 2013)

When I joined my club 3 years ago there was no joining fees, but there had been in the past. (to the tune of Â£600 I have been told).
We have this year put the joining fee back on. Every local club has this joining fee so the club saw it as a missed opportunity to increase revenue.(Â£300 which can be payed over 2 years)  We've had the same (or near enough) number of new members register.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 10, 2013)

My Club has retained the joining fee (One and a half years membership + current year), the only concession made is that you can now pay it over three years.   Seems to be working for them still as the club is still attracting new members and stays at capacity.    Must be the quality of the golf course and facilities.


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## drawboy (Feb 10, 2013)

Our club has no joining fee, but it put it's subs up 25 quid and lost 43 members, I cannot see me being at my club next year if it doesn't improve even if I had have paid Â£1000 joining fee it would not stop me leaving.If you are going then you are going. Once paid the joining fee is paid simple. I do not think they keep anyone at a club.


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## G1BB0 (Feb 10, 2013)

joining fee = no ta I will look elsewhere, in this economic time golf is a luxury that for me has to take 2nd place behind a sky tv  sub grrrr (2 teenage sons).


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## williamalex1 (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Joining fees put members off in my opinion. Have a decent track which is well run then people will stay. 

Only top clubs can still happily advertise joining fees however even now they are seeing a huge drop in prospective new members.
		
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my thought was that if there was a fee to rejoin people might think twice about leaving in the first place , because the grass isn't always greener . i couldn't resist that, sorry :lol:


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## Birchy (Feb 10, 2013)

I didnt pay a joining fee to join my club and would never pay one. I think its a complete rip off.


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## virtuocity (Feb 10, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I didnt pay a joining fee to join my club and would never pay one. I think its a complete rip off.
		
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+1 totally agree.


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## DAVEYBOY (Feb 10, 2013)

I don't think joining fees are right as we should be able to play at a different club every year if we want to.


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## ventura (Feb 10, 2013)

The club I'm joining has suspended the fee at the moment. I think I would have looked elsewhere if there was one, too many clubs that don't have any at the moment so will put people off if you do.


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## kev_off_the_tee (Feb 10, 2013)

+2. I have a young family to think of and at present Sky Tv is a must for the sports and children's tv.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 10, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I didnt pay a joining fee to join my club and would never pay one. I think its a complete rip off.
		
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Everything has it's price and we have the freedom to pay the price or buy something else, I dont see why it's a rip off!  The club is owned by it's members, money is raised with the fee and spent on improving facilities for the membership, nothing wrong with that.   As long as the club attracts suitable numbers they will continue to charge it, if you want to be a member you pay it.     Simples!


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## alansd (Feb 10, 2013)

The type of club you are joining should also be taken into account when thinking about whither a joining fee is reasonable or not.
I would never pay to join a privately owned club and would rather not join one. All of the money getting paid in is lining someone's pockets and only the minimum will get put back into the club.

Joining a private members club on the other hand essentially makes you a shareholder in the club so I can understand why clubs if they can will have a joining fee. I changed clubs a year ago and have had to pay a joining fee of Â£1000 spread over three years, if i was over 35 that would have doubled to Â£2000. Its a lot, but the money in these clubs goes back into improving the facilities so at least you can see where the money is going. 

A decent club can still command joining fees (round the south east/surrey) and from what I have seen it makes sure the people joining are serious about playing and not going to stay for a year then bugger off somewhere else.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Feb 10, 2013)

I can see both sides to the joining fee argument,  it would make you think twice about leaving a club if you had paid a large joining fee. On the other hand if all the other local courses aren't charging them, a lot of people won't even consider joining. I paid one at my current club 7 years ago and they still charge one now but most comparable local courses don't,  the GM advised at last AGM people had enquired about joining but declined as soon as joining fee was mentioned. It hard to judge the lesser evil of people leaving easily or not joining in the 1st place. The course I am waiting to join this year still has a joining fee which I am happy to pay as they are offering a course of a very high standard and still have a waiting list of a few years. If you can offer a standard of course or facilities that others that have no joining fees can't match then I'm sure the joining fee will stay and be readily paid, if the course or facilities are no better then it's a dangerous situation as new members most probably won't consider you.


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## Iaing (Feb 10, 2013)

I don't have a problem with clubs charging joining fees. If they're popular enough to charge one in the current financial climate then so be it.
However. I do feel that instead of the jf disappearing into club coffers, it should be paid back to the member, perhaps via discounted subs over a number of years. Ie if you pay Â£1000 joining fee, you get Â£100 off your subs for the first 10 years of your membership.

Nothing to stop this happening if the clubs look for a joining fee to promote loyalty rather than just to raise some extra cash.


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## Captainron (Feb 10, 2013)

I think the better clubs will always charge a fee. This means additional revenue to keep them top and means that they have a certain amount of control over who joins. All the good clubs here charge one and a half times the annual subs plus the subs in the first year. Means you get longer and more stable membership. I don't want to pay that really but will have to if I want to be at a top club, and I do! I will be saving for is eventuality


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## Wolfman (Feb 10, 2013)

what about  joining fees paid over two years but you leave after one year and only half the joining fee paid ?


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## boyatthebay (Feb 10, 2013)

Don't have an issue with joining fees, it is all down to supply & demand. If a club feels they can get away with it then good on them. It's a personal choice if you pay it or go somewhere else. If a club charges a fee and they are getting new members, they must be doing something right


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## Lanark_Golfer (Feb 10, 2013)

Iaing said:



			I don't have a problem with clubs charging joining fees. If they're popular enough to charge one in the current financial climate then so be it.
However. I do feel that instead of the jf disappearing into club coffers, it should be paid back to the member, perhaps via discounted subs over a number of years. Ie if you pay Â£1000 joining fee, you get Â£100 off your subs for the first 10 years of your membership.

Nothing to stop this happening if the clubs look for a joining fee to promote loyalty rather than just to raise some extra cash.
		
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I like that idea Iain, rewarding loyalty sounds good to me. As long as they maintain good standards, it should work :thup:


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 10, 2013)

alansd said:



			The type of club you are joining should also be taken into account when thinking about whither a joining fee is reasonable or not.
I would never pay to join a privately owned club and would rather not join one. All of the money getting paid in is lining someone's pockets and only the minimum will get put back into the club.

Joining a private members club on the other hand essentially makes you a shareholder in the club so I can understand why clubs if they can will have a joining fee. I changed clubs a year ago and have had to pay a joining fee of Â£1000 spread over three years, if i was over 35 that would have doubled to Â£2000. Its a lot, but the money in these clubs goes back into improving the facilities so at least you can see where the money is going. 

A decent club can still command joining fees (round the south east/surrey) and from what I have seen it makes sure the people joining are serious about playing and not going to stay for a year then bugger off somewhere else.
		
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+1; same club, just wish I had been under 35   A lot of people moved from my previous club, many to clubs that had no joining fee, and a number of those are moving on again.  It can leave those clubs in a precarious position year on year, the joining fee does at least indicate that you are serious about staying, which is what was impressed on me when I applied.


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

Iaing said:



			I don't have a problem with clubs charging joining fees. If they're popular enough to charge one in the current financial climate then so be it.
However. I do feel that instead of the jf disappearing into club coffers, it should be paid back to the member, perhaps via discounted subs over a number of years. Ie if you pay Â£1000 joining fee, you get Â£100 off your subs for the first 10 years of your membership.

Nothing to stop this happening if the clubs look for a joining fee to promote loyalty rather than just to raise some extra cash.
		
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I actually really like that plan Iain.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 10, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			My Club has retained the joining fee (One and a half years membership + current year), the only concession made is that you can now pay it over three years.   Seems to be working for them still as the club is still attracting new members and stays at capacity.    Must be the quality of the golf course and facilities.
		
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Same my place.  Apart from the obvious pecuniary advantage - having a joining fee will most likely tie a new member in for at least a year or two, and if to be paid over say three years pay it does mean that a new member is likely to stay for at least three years.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 10, 2013)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			I can see both sides to the joining fee argument,  it would make you think twice about leaving a club if you had paid a large joining fee. On the other hand if all the other local courses aren't charging them, a lot of people won't even consider joining. I paid one at my current club 7 years ago and they still charge one now but most comparable local courses don't,  the GM advised at last AGM people had enquired about joining but declined as soon as joining fee was mentioned. It hard to judge the lesser evil of people leaving easily or not joining in the 1st place. The course I am waiting to join this year still has a joining fee which I am happy to pay as they are offering a course of a very high standard and still have a waiting list of a few years. If you can offer a standard of course or facilities that others that have no joining fees can't match then I'm sure the joining fee will stay and be readily paid, if the course or facilities are no better then it's a dangerous situation as new members most probably won't consider you.
		
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Lanark ?


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## scratch (Feb 10, 2013)

You pretty much get what you pay for, if you want to be a member of a top quality course then you will most likely have to pay a joining fee. I paid one at my club and I think I get good value for my money.


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## Val (Feb 10, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			Lanark ?
		
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Lanark it is.

Iain I also like that idea, clubs try and promote loyalty but when loyalty hits your pocket then people know where their true loyalties lie.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 10, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Lanark it is.

Iain I also like that idea, clubs try and promote loyalty but when loyalty hits your pocket then people know where their true loyalties lie.
		
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I get 50% off my fees because i paid full fees to the same club for over 25 yrs and i'm now over 65 ,and i paid a JF to start.  so loyalty does pay if you live long enough lucky me


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## Lanark_Golfer (Feb 10, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			I get 50% off my fees because i paid full fees to the same club for over 25 yrs and i'm now over 65 ,and i paid a JF to start.  so loyalty does pay if you live long enough lucky me
		
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I agree with rewarding seniors with over 25 yrs loyalty but has to be at realistic rates. My present club has free subs after reaching 65 and having 25 or 30 years membership, think there is just a donation of around Â£70 to be paid. I think that was all well and good in the past, but people are living a lot longer and playing longer, more and more members are eligible for this and the club has less and less money coming in each year. When it is proposed to be changed and increase the amount to be paid by this group at the AGM each year, most of the eligible people and those approaching it vote against it and see it as their right. The big picture will see the course go downhill fast if this continues as the figures just don't add up.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 10, 2013)

Looks like our fees are going up by 8.4% or Â£120 as we apparently aren't getting the numbers in. We've ditched the joining fees too and it is becoming increasingly hard for as lot of clubs to entice and more importantly keep them. When we did have the joining fee, it seemed a number of "faces" left and decided the grass wasn't greener at the new place and came back but were exempt from the fee. Personally I don't think it's fair but now the problem has gone I guess its a mute point. 

I don't see how increasing the fees will help. It penalises the existing membership for the inability of the board to have a successful recruitment and retention policy. I hope but doubt the new General Manager we've appointed this month will make a difference but we'll have to give him some time to prove me wrong


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## Fader (Feb 10, 2013)

I get why clubs say they charge joining fees but I don't personally agree with them. Ironically I've just moved to a club that do usually charge a joining fee, but currently they are waiving that for a limited number of new member from January until March wen it's being reinstated. If the fee was in place when I toon up the option to join I'd have looked elsewhere. 

The way I see it is a joining fee is like a glorified admin fee! If someone said you had to pay 1k for the privilege of some guy filling out the paperwork to buy a new car or book a holiday you'd tell them where to go. It costs enough as a hobby to pay subs, have decent equipment, travel to and from course with current fuel prices etc for me to be able to justify joining fees as well.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 10, 2013)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			I agree with rewarding seniors with over 25 yrs loyalty but has to be at realistic rates. My present club has free subs after reaching 65 and having 25 or 30 years membership, think there is just a donation of around Â£70 to be paid. I think that was all well and good in the past, but people are living a lot longer and playing longer, more and more members are eligible for this and the club has less and less money coming in each year. When it is proposed to be changed and increase the amount to be paid by this group at the AGM each year, most of the eligible people and those approaching it vote against it and see it as their right. The big picture will see the course go downhill fast if this continues as the figures just don't add up.
		
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Withthe  discount i still pay around  Â£300.00


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## Lanark_Golfer (Feb 10, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			Withthe  discount i still pay around  Â£300.00
		
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That sounds a fair deal, 50% is reasonable but free with a voluntary donation isn't feasible to me. Where do you play?


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## williamalex1 (Feb 10, 2013)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			That sounds a fair deal, 50% is reasonable but free with a voluntary donation isn't feasible to me. Where do you play?
		
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Bellshill but used to be at Greenburn


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## Imurg (Feb 10, 2013)

I've been looking at local clubs with a view to a move at some stage and the one that ticks most boxes is the one that has a joining fee. Well it doesn't but it does. Fees are Â£1221 a year for the first 5 years, then the rate drops to the "members loyalty rate" of Â£1071 - the difference being Â£750. So its a joining fee in all but name.........an extra Â£150 a year.

If a club has a Joining Fee or a pseudo one like above then I would definitely think twice about joining.


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## Lanark_Golfer (Feb 10, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			Bellshill but used to be at Greenburn
		
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Bellshill is one of the local course's I haven't played, might try and play if they have an open this year. Haven't played Greenburn for about 10 yrs either but can remember the hole with railway viaduct ob right and water down the left, was a tough hole with my driving


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			I get 50% off my fees because i paid full fees to the same club for over 25 yrs and i'm now over 65 ,and i paid a JF to start.  so loyalty does pay if you live long enough lucky me
		
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You see that is 100% wrong. Why should I subsidise you?


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## stevie_r (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			You see that is 100% wrong. Why should I subsidise you?
		
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Because I believe the broad concept to be that one day people would be subsidising you


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## Lanark_Golfer (Feb 10, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Because I believe the broad concept to be that one day people would be subsidising you
		
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I think that's where the problem comes from, if more and more people are eligible (subsidised), there are less people left to subsidise or the fees need to keep rising and people end up leaving.


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## backwoodsman (Feb 10, 2013)

Why is it a rip-off? 
If you really want to play there, then you'll pay it. If you don't want to pay it, then you you're not that bothered about playing there. No-one makes you pay it?

We still have one - and darned expensive it is too - but that doesn't stop us having a waiting list. And even though I say it myself, our course ain't that great. A decent "club" but only an "ok" course. But, as far as I know, the joining fees are ring-fenced to  course improvements.


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Because I believe the broad concept to be that one day people would be subsidising you
		
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No they won't. Golf clubs are desperate to stop this and many have as seniors are bleeding the clubs dry. I have no desire to get cheaper fees when I'm older and can play when I like. I chose to play my golf at X golf club, I knew the fees, I chose to pay them. I don't believe that because I kept the club going before someone else was even born that I should have a right to cheaper golf.

If your a full member you pay full fees.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			You see that is 100% wrong. Why should I subsidise you?
		
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  NO I SUBIDISED ALL THE YOUNGER  PLAYERS THAT PAY REDUCE FEES BECAUSE I PAID FULL FEES FOR OVER 25YRS . And stayed loyal to the same club   even when the weather was bad and the course closed . Not like some who jump ship when the going gets tough


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

Wishaw_Hacker said:



			I think that's where the problem comes from, if more and more people are eligible (subsidised), there are less people left to subsidise or the fees need to keep rising and people end up leaving.
		
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It'll be a thing of the past within 10 years. 

Old codgers should pay up like everyone else. They have no divine right.


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## Bomber69 (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			You see that is 100% wrong. Why should I subsidise you?
		
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You forgot to mention repairing all the pitch marks the old dudes leave, why should we need to repair their pitch marks.......


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			NO I SUBIDISED ALL THE YOUNGER  PLAYERS THAT PAY REDUCE FEES BECAUSE I PAID FULL FEES FOR OVER 25YRS . And stayed loyal to the same club   even when the weather was bad and the course closed . Not like some who jump ship when the going gets tough
		
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Tough. You chose to pay, no one forced you. You deserve nothing for free in life. If your a full member you pay full fees. Simple concept.


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## Bomber69 (Feb 10, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			NO I SUBIDISED ALL THE YOUNGER  PLAYERS THAT PAY REDUCE FEES BECAUSE I PAID FULL FEES FOR OVER 25YRS . And stayed loyal to the same club   even when the weather was bad and the course closed . Not like some who jump ship when the going gets tough
		
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But the juniors pay a reduced fee and don't have the same rights as full members, most old duffers still think they own the course so I can't see where your coming from.


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## bigslice (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			You see that is 100% wrong. Why should I subsidise you?
		
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woop woop ive waited to post till this came up.
i dont have a problem with a joining fee, barring me moving to another country (think euro millions) im staying at my new course for ever. i see the joining fee as me paying a wee bit extra to the club. now over 40 years thats nothing. BUT its the free golf that mine and other courses that is killing clubs.
ive yet to attend my first AGM at bogside but i will attend and im interested in how MY club is run and what we are going to do to protect its future.  ive written a list of questions and sugestions already and have talked to the secretary about them.
 free golf isnt helping. so you pay your dues for 40 years then you cud get another 40 for nought. that is mental, clubs are changing and money talks (and walks).
a scenerio that cud happen is that there are more folk playing for free than paying at courses.:angry:


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## stevie_r (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			No they won't. Golf clubs are desperate to stop this and many have as seniors are bleeding the clubs dry. I have no desire to get cheaper fees when I'm older and can play when I like. I chose to play my golf at X golf club, I knew the fees, I chose to pay them. I don't believe that because I kept the club going before someone else was even born that I should have a right to cheaper golf.

If your a full member you pay full fees.
		
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I did say broad concept craw.  I fully agree that the subsidised senior sections whilst being rewarded for years of support and membership aren't putting much into the club coffers.  
I have more issue however with the fact that someone under 30 pays less for a full membership than I do for my off peak.  Why should the 30 - 65 age group subsidise someone under 30?

The thread seems to have digressed a bit.  Joining fees? I wouldn't pay one - end of story.  Far, far too much choice of club out there and it's a 'buyers' market.  As far as I'm concerned it's a simple arrangement, I'll pay you Â£_x_ and you let me play golf here for _x_ months.

There will always be those clubs that charge the earth for exclusivity, and people who will pay it - good luck to them.  Your average run of the mill club needs to wise up a bit however.  When I moved over here 18 months ago I was looking for a new club to join,  I spoke to one locally who I won't name, however, I spoke to a very haughty sounding female secretary who told me with an air of disdain that no, they didn't apply any discount for Husband and Wife both taking out full memberships together.  They didn't need to and furthermore (proudly) unlike most clubs in the area still charged a joining fee - because they could.

Well that joining fee is reducing, they are trying to grab people in on 15 months golf for 12 months fees and have a horrible garrish banner advertising the fact up on the road that runs past the course.


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

Having served on a club committee that age group is the age group that clubs are most likely to lose. It was initially 18-25 however over years has crept up to 30 for some reason.

It was designed initially because juniors on turning 18 couldn't usually afford the jump to gents fees and often some went onto university or college. I'm not saying I agree with it but I know why it was done and can still see some merit in it. I wouldn't allow it as high as 30 and think 25 is a better age.


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## thecraw (Feb 10, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			I did say broad concept craw.  I fully agree that the subsidised senior sections whilst being rewarded for years of support and membership aren't putting much into the club coffers.  
I have more issue however with the fact that someone under 30 pays less for a full membership than I do for my off peak.  Why should the 30 - 65 age group subsidise someone under 30?

The thread seems to have digressed a bit.  Joining fees? I wouldn't pay one - end of story.  Far, far too much choice of club out there and it's a 'buyers' market.  As far as I'm concerned it's a simple arrangement, I'll pay you Â£_x_ and you let me play golf here for _x_ months.

There will always be those clubs that charge the earth for exclusivity, and people who will pay it - good luck to them.  Your average run of the mill club needs to wise up a bit however.  When I moved over here 18 months ago I was looking for a new club to join,  I spoke to one locally who I won't name, however, I spoke to a very haughty sounding female secretary who told me with an air of disdain that no, they didn't apply any discount for Husband and Wife both taking out full memberships together.  They didn't need to and furthermore (proudly) unlike most clubs in the area still charged a joining fee - because they could.

*Well that joining fee is reducing, they are trying to grab people in on 15 months golf for 12 months fees and have a horrible garrish banner advertising the fact up on the road that runs past the course.*

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Would that be Erskine by chance?


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## stevie_r (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Would that be Erskine by chance?
		
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Wouldn't like to say


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## SocketRocket (Feb 10, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Old codgers should pay up like everyone else. They have no divine right.
		
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Tell me Craw; why do you need to use such rude remarks against older people.   Would you use these comments when referring your parents?    You may have an opinion to what Seniors subscriptions should be but there is no need to demonise old people.


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## fundy (Feb 10, 2013)

Imurg said:



			I've been looking at local clubs with a view to a move at some stage and the one that ticks most boxes is the one that has a joining fee. Well it doesn't but it does. Fees are Â£1221 a year for the first 5 years, then the rate drops to the "members loyalty rate" of Â£1071 - the difference being Â£750. So its a joining fee in all but name.........an extra Â£150 a year.

If a club has a Joining Fee or a pseudo one like above then I would definitely think twice about joining.
		
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Assume that must be Ellesborough? Â£1200 a year - that must be 7 day surely and even then feels a touch pricey


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## thecraw (Feb 11, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Tell me Craw; why do you need to use such rude remarks against older people.   Would you use these comments when referring your parents?    You may have an opinion to what Seniors subscriptions should be but there is no need to demonise old people.
		
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Ooooooooooooft. I will refrain from going into a rant at yourself.


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## bobmac (Feb 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Same my place.  Apart from the obvious *pecuniary advantage* - having a joining fee will most likely tie a new member in for at least a year or two, and if to be paid over say three years pay it does mean that a new member is likely to stay for at least three years.
		
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I had to look that up.....
pecuniary advantage

"financial advantage that is dishonestly obtained by deception and that constitutes a criminal offence"


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 11, 2013)

Imurg said:



			I've been looking at local clubs with a view to a move at some stage and the one that ticks most boxes is the one that has a joining fee. Well it doesn't but it does. Fees are Â£1221 a year for the first 5 years, then the rate drops to the "members loyalty rate" of Â£1071 - the difference being Â£750. So its a joining fee in all but name.........an extra Â£150 a year.

If a club has a Joining Fee or a pseudo one like above then I would definitely think twice about joining.
		
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Thems are the 7 day rates, 5 day rates are a couple of hundred less


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## Imurg (Feb 11, 2013)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Thems are the 7 day rates, 5 day rates are a couple of hundred less
		
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True

Â£972 and Â£822

Still 150 quid extra for 5 years = Â£750 joining fee


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## PhilTheFragger (Feb 11, 2013)

Imurg said:



			True

Â£972 and Â£822

Still 150 quid extra for 5 years = Â£750 joining fee
		
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Isnt that discriminating against new members?


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## Imurg (Feb 11, 2013)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Isnt that discriminating against new members?
		
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No it's a Joining Fee - just disguised so they can say they have no Joining fee.

Let's face it, general consensus on here is that Joining fees are not welcome..........

They also have a sliding scale, as do many clubs, that we've had plenty of discussion about before on here.....

It's discrimination - but lawful.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 11, 2013)

thecraw said:



			It'll be a thing of the past within 10 years. 

Old codgers should pay up like everyone else. They have no divine right.
		
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Pray tell does your old Father Craw pay full or reduced fees


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2013)

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but isn't a joining fee a sunken cost.  And all economic theory states that you should not take into account sunken costs when making a decision whether to invest more in the future.  

So the fact that you have spent a grand on a joining fee should not influence whether you continue paying your yearly membership, as essentially that money has gone and rationally you are not getting any more value for money on your yearly membership because of it.  Or something like that.


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## BrizoH71 (Feb 11, 2013)

I've just moved house, and most of the clubs around me that I'd consider becoming a member of, all operate joining fees ranging from Â£200 over 2 years, to Â£500 over 5 years. My current club, Peebles, doesn't operate a joining fee but are putting subs up for the new season - I'm not affected, as I'm paid up until March 2014.

However, I'm likely to leave Peebles when my membership is up as its now double the distance for me to travel, and I won't be able to justify it once fuel costs are added to the cost of membership. I'd happily take a country membership there for when I'm down at the caravan on occasional weekends, as it would work out cheaper than visitor rates, but I don't qualify as i'm 10 miles inside the threshold.

As much as I'd rather avoid doing so, to join somewhere more local to where I now live, I'm going to have to pay a joining fee and I accept that.


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## Khamelion (Feb 11, 2013)

On the point of the 'Seniors', I think most clubs have reduced fees for those of a pensionable age. Golf clubs see that a good few members have past retirement age and are now drawing a pension, some may have good pensions and others may not but either way giving seniors on a pension the ability to still be a contributing member of a golf club means they still have a stream of revenue coming in, be it from the green fees or the members bar.

As for joining fees, personally I think these are an antiquated method of squeezing cash out of people. Many clubs have done away with joining fees, if a club wants exclusivity for its members then they just charge an exhorbitant annual membership fee. One course up my way charges Â£1,800 for the year and that allows you play on the lesser of the two courses available, to play on both you have to pay over Â£3,000 for the year and if you want you own locker you have to pay a lot more.

Personally I wouldn't pay a joining fee, as has been mentioned it's a buyers market when it comes to joining a golf club, yes you may have to be vetted prior to approval, getting a recommendation and a be seconded by two existing members, but before handing over any cash I'd want to know where my cash would be going, what it would be spent on. If it was just going into the kitty to ensure the bar is fully stocked or keep the captains car park space spick and span, then I'd have second thoughts on joining the club, if however a good percentage was going to course improvement and maintenance then I'd be more inclined to part with my cash and join.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 11, 2013)

Just a point ,you don't get reduced fees just because your over 65. you must have paid full fees for over 25yrs. We have one guy that wont get them reduced till he's 85 lucky him eh


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Everything has it's price and we have the freedom to pay the price or buy something else, I dont see why it's a rip off!  The club is owned by it's members, money is raised with the fee and spent on improving facilities for the membership, nothing wrong with that.   As long as the club attracts suitable numbers they will continue to charge it, if you want to be a member you pay it.     Simples!
		
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Quite - no one is ripping anyone else off.  If you don't want to pay a joining fee find a club that doesn't have one.  It's the club's decision on whether or not to have one and how it can be paid.  I'd be less inclined myself to pay a joining fee to join a club that 
was not a members club - but if it came to it that would be my decision.  In a members club all income goes in the club pot to be spent on the club.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I don't think joining fees are right as we should be able to play at a different club every year if we want to.
		
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@DAVEYBOY - you can - what have joining fees got to do with your ability to do that?


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## bigslice (Feb 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Quite - no one is ripping anyone else off.  If you don't want to pay a joining fee find a club that doesn't have one.  It's the club's decision on whether or not to have one and how it can be paid.  I'd be less inclined myself to pay a joining fee to join a club that 
was not a members club - but if it came to it that would be my decision.  In a members club all income goes in the club pot to be spent on the club.
		
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i suppose it depends on the amount of clubs around you. myself a joining fee isnt a factor to put off joining a club.  i looked around at a less than five courses to join in Ayrshire. after some consideration (well it was a no brainer) i joined Bogside, 11 minutes from my house a cracking golf course (although i had only played it once) nice clubhouse and a friendly membership. 
yes they halfed the joining fee from Â£1200 to 600 which helped as it meant i joined a year earllier than i had planned. but one of my best descions.
i see the joining fee as my intention to stay and play at this club for years, (for life). 
this club used to have a 7 year waiting list now there is none, its a sign of the times and golfers will move to cheaper places. hopefully we have a plan to cope with all this, and i mean ALL golf courses


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2013)

Also I'll add - our entrance fee (not called a joining fee ) is Â£1250 and can be spread over 12 to 24 months.  Let's assume we get 30 new members a year - take away entrance fee and the exisiting membership has to fill the gap - Â£37500! Every year! hmmm.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2013)

bigslice said:



			i suppose it depends on the amount of clubs around you. myself a joining fee isnt a factor to put off joining a club.  i looked around at a less than five courses to join in Ayrshire. after some consideration (well it was a no brainer) i joined Bogside, 11 minutes from my house a cracking golf course (although i had only played it once) nice clubhouse and a friendly membership. 
yes they halfed the joining fee from Â£1200 to 600 which helped as it meant i joined a year earllier than i had planned. but one of my best descions.
i see the joining fee as my intention to stay and play at this club for years, (for life). 
this club used to have a 7 year waiting list now there is none, its a sign of the times and golfers will move to cheaper places. hopefully we have a plan to cope with all this, and i mean ALL golf courses
		
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.

Yup - agree with this.  Though whether I stay for life...

But it will be very unlikely that I will move club as long as I live in this area.  Been a member 10yrs now.  So my Â£1000 (or whatever it was - probably a bit less) equates to Â£100 a year - Â£2 a week.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 11, 2013)

Khamelion said:



			On the point of the 'Seniors', I think most clubs have reduced fees for those of a pensionable age. Golf clubs see that a good few members have past retirement age and are now drawing a pension, some may have good pensions and others may not but either way giving seniors on a pension the ability to still be a contributing member of a golf club means they still have a stream of revenue coming in, be it from the green fees or the members bar.

As for joining fees, personally I think these are an antiquated method of squeezing cash out of people. Many clubs have done away with joining fees, if a club wants exclusivity for its members then they just charge an exhorbitant annual membership fee. One course up my way charges Â£1,800 for the year and that allows you play on the lesser of the two courses available, to play on both you have to pay over Â£3,000 for the year and if you want you own locker you have to pay a lot more.

Personally I wouldn't pay a joining fee, as has been mentioned it's a buyers market when it comes to joining a golf club, yes you may have to be vetted prior to approval, getting a recommendation and a be seconded by two existing members, but before handing over any cash I'd want to know where my cash would be going, what it would be spent on. If it was just going into the kitty to ensure the bar is fully stocked or keep the captains car park space spick and span, then I'd have second thoughts on joining the club, if however a good percentage was going to course improvement and maintenance then I'd be more inclined to part with my cash and join.
		
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I'd like to think that a members club can still have an element of social awareness (if that is the right word) by recognising that in general pensioners have less money to spare than they did when working and that paying their golf subs could be difficult. 

Further, in many communities the golf club is still a social meeting place and fairly important to the community - so one of the places pensioners can go to meet up.  Yes I know that that is a fairly idealistic view on things, and possibly a bit old fashioned and out of kilter with the economic realities of today - but i think it is something that can easily be lost on the younger and on incomers to an area - but is actually important to many older folk of the community.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 11, 2013)

I have seen all of this before in the 1990's.
There were clubs and members then who were very hoity toity and thought that they could easily survive the financial down turn.
They did not take into consideration all of the new clubs built around then. This resulted in the same number of golfers with a greater choice of clubs to join. Quite a few of those 'Posh' clubs never recovered and are struggling to this day.

The problem is that golfers are generally selfish and inward looking.

Of course clubs cannot survive with a large senior membership paying reduced fees.
Naturally clubs must do all they can to attract younger members and lady members.
Clubs should operate more varied membership options. An example would be a cheaper restricted membership with a limited number of rounds to be played.

Reduced fee members should not be able to vote at an AGM as they have their own agenda.

For all you senior haters. Remember that many of these guys kept the club going through the bad times and will probably have done voluntary stints and committee work.


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## scratch (Feb 11, 2013)

There are 3 top quality courses in the Bournemouth area, they all have joining fees between Â£750 and Â£2000 and 2 of them have waiting lists to join. There are also a few other clubs that have no joining fee and are struggling for members. VERY few people leave these three clubs other than for reasons such as moving out of the area etc. 

Maybe there is a moral in the story.


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## clive cas (Feb 11, 2013)

scratch said:



			There are 3 top quality courses in the Bournemouth area, they all have joining fees between Â£750 and Â£2000 and 2 of them have waiting lists to join. There are also a few other clubs that have no joining fee and are struggling for members. VERY few people leave these three clubs other than for reasons such as moving out of the area etc. 

Maybe there is a moral in the story.
		
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Changing golf clubs and just spoke to the sec of the one I want to join .
Membership not due until the first of April but if I join now free golf until then .
No joining fee 
Option to pay in full or direct debit five day membership Â£430.00
Full membership Â£610.00


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## DCB (Feb 11, 2013)

Had a search through the archive to see what was said on this matter in previous posts.  Interesting to see what was said  several seasons back.

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?5478-Joining-Fees&highlight=Joining

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?32974-Joining-Fee-why&highlight=Joining


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## thecraw (Feb 11, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I have seen all of this before in the 1990's.
There were clubs and members then who were very hoity toity and thought that they could easily survive the financial down turn.
They did not take into consideration all of the new clubs built around then. This resulted in the same number of golfers with a greater choice of clubs to join. Quite a few of those 'Posh' clubs never recovered and are struggling to this day.

The problem is that golfers are generally selfish and inward looking.

Of course clubs cannot survive with a large senior membership paying reduced fees.
Naturally clubs must do all they can to attract younger members and lady members.
Clubs should operate more varied membership options. An example would be a cheaper restricted membership with a limited number of rounds to be played.

Reduced fee members should not be able to vote at an AGM as they have their own agenda.

*For all you senior haters. Remember that many of these guys kept the club going through the bad times and will probably have done voluntary stints and committee work.*

Click to expand...


And what? Why do they deserve a medal or worse a reduced membership fee? I'm helping keep my golf course go through a real slump. At a time where fuel and living is at a ridiculous high I could easily decide to spend my money else where but I don't I pay my fees. I don't expect to get anything back when I turn 65. I know what the fees are I know that I can choose to leave. 

I don't buy into this nonsense that I paid for the club when you were in nappies. Well guess what I'll be paying for this club when your pushing up daisy's. Its swings and roundabouts.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 11, 2013)

thecraw said:



			And what? Why do they deserve a medal or worse a reduced membership fee? I'm helping keep my golf course go through a real slump. At a time where fuel and living is at a ridiculous high I could easily decide to spend my money else where but I don't I pay my fees. I don't expect to get anything back when I turn 65. I know what the fees are I know that I can choose to leave. 

I don't buy into this nonsense that I paid for the club when you were in nappies. Well guess what I'll be paying for this club when your pushing up daisy's. Its swings and roundabouts.
		
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Yea, you tell em.  And I bet that on the way to the course they would all of been driving at 15mph in their 8 year old Rovers that have done 1400 miles, with one brake light not working, staring blankly and not moving when they get to a mini roundabout as they can't understand it, holding everyone up.


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## moogie (Feb 11, 2013)

Khamelion said:



			As for joining fees, personally I think these are an antiquated method of squeezing cash out of people. Many clubs have done away with joining fees, if a club wants exclusivity for its members then they just charge an exhorbitant annual membership fee. One course up my way charges Â£1,800 for the year and that allows you play on the lesser of the two courses available, to play on both you have to pay over Â£3,000 for the year and if you want you own locker you have to pay a lot more.
		
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Im Curious / Interested...........Which Club is this......??


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## kev_off_the_tee (Feb 11, 2013)

moogie said:



			Im Curious / Interested...........Which Club is this......??
		
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Close house?


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## moogie (Feb 11, 2013)

kev_off_the_tee said:



			Close house?
		
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CANT BE
Close House is Â£1890.00 to have Full Playing rights on BOTH Courses,  I know a couple members there too

http://www.closehouse.co.uk/golf/membership/individual-membership/

http://www.closehouse.co.uk/golf/membership/membership-tariffs/


Thats Why I was Curious,  cos I CANT think of anywhere else in OUR area that could fit the description


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 11, 2013)

scratch said:



			There are 3 top quality courses in the Bournemouth area, they all have joining fees between Â£750 and Â£2000 and 2 of them have waiting lists to join. There are also a few other clubs that have no joining fee and are struggling for members. VERY few people leave these three clubs other than for reasons such as moving out of the area etc. 

Maybe there is a moral in the story.
		
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Parkstone, Broadstone and..........?


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## scratch (Feb 11, 2013)

Blue in Munich said:



			Parkstone, Broadstone and..........?
		
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Ferndown


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 11, 2013)

Don't tend to think of that as a Bournemouth course, don't know why.  Would I be right in thinking Ferndown is the Â£2,000 fee?


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## scratch (Feb 11, 2013)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't tend to think of that as a Bournemouth course, don't know why.  Would I be right in thinking Ferndown is the Â£2,000 fee?
		
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Yes it is, just checked their website and they have reduced it down to Â£1750 now.


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## Scadge (Feb 11, 2013)

I tend to like joining fees, makes me think that the membership is going to be pretty stable, that the course is confident in its offering and that there is something intrinsically valuable in being a member.  I might be stupid though as I did pay out a king's ransome to be a member of a club in Ireland thinking I would be there for keeps.


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## Val (Feb 11, 2013)

Most of the senior at my club could pay 3 times the full gents fee and not have to touch their pensions.

Get rid of the vets sections, my club committee dread the amount moving into vets every year at the AGM, for every one moving into vet we need to find 1 new member or better still 2 juniors. 

Its not easy.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 11, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Most of the senior at my club could pay 3 times the full gents fee and not have to touch their pensions.

Get rid of the vets sections, my club committee dread the amount moving into vets every year at the AGM, for every one moving into vet we need to find 1 new member or better still 2 juniors. 

Its not easy.
		
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How much do you seniors pay and what qualifies them to pay less .


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## Val (Feb 11, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			How much do you seniors pay and what qualifies them to pay less .
		
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Being voted for next season as follows, not seniors as such but a veteran member

20 years - 50%
25 years - 45%
30 years - 40%
35 years - 35%

And thats them getting better for the club, 35 years was 27.5% last year.


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## thecraw (Feb 11, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Being voted for next season as follows, not seniors as such but a veteran member

20 years - 50%
25 years - 45%
30 years - 40%
35 years - 35%

And thats them getting better for the club, 35 years was 27.5% last year.
		
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Horrendous, they'll bleed your club dry. Can't afford to sustain that nonsense.


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## Dodger (Feb 11, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Being voted for next season as follows, not seniors as such but a veteran member

20 years - 50%
25 years - 45%
30 years - 40%
35 years - 35%

And thats them getting better for the club, 35 years was 27.5% last year.
		
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Honestly??!!

A shocking business model.I would suggest your club could be up the creek without a paddle in no time at all.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 11, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Being voted for next season as follows, not seniors as such but a veteran member

20 years - 50%
25 years - 45%
30 years - 40%
35 years - 35%

And thats them getting better for the club, 35 years was 27.5% last year.
		
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Ours will be 50% of full fee , still more than  double juns and juvs , and still more than associate members fees.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 11, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Horrendous, they'll bleed your club dry. Can't afford to sustain that nonsense.
		
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Craw what fee does daddy craw pay


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## Val (Feb 11, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Horrendous, they'll bleed your club dry. Can't afford to sustain that nonsense.
		
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Yip, losing money a second year on the bounce last year (not a lot but a loss is a loss).



Dodger said:



			Honestly??!!

A shocking business model.I would suggest your club could be up the creek without a paddle in no time at all.
		
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Dodger, do me a favour buddy and pm me what the vets/seniors model is at Hirsel. We have our AGM on the 19th February and needless to say its a subject that needs to be spoken about.

Currently all the books show a loss its clouded a bit by depreciation, we still have plenty cash in the back (for now) but with the vets section at 85 members (unsure of the split) we are potentially shipping a lot of cash.


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## Dodger (Feb 11, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Yip, losing money a second year on the bounce last year (not a lot but a loss is a loss).



Dodger, do me a favour buddy and pm me what the vets/seniors model is at Hirsel. We have our AGM on the 19th February and needless to say its a subject that needs to be spoken about.

Currently all the books show a loss its clouded a bit by depreciation, we still have plenty cash in the back (for now) but with the vets section at 85 members (unsure of the split) we are potentially shipping a lot of cash.
		
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No need to PM I am more than happy to tell you there is one price for Vets.....full price.


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## Khamelion (Feb 11, 2013)

moogie said:



			CANT BE
Close House is Â£1890.00 to have Full Playing rights on BOTH Courses,  I know a couple members there too

http://www.closehouse.co.uk/golf/membership/individual-membership/

http://www.closehouse.co.uk/golf/membership/membership-tariffs/


Thats Why I was Curious,  cos I CANT think of anywhere else in OUR area that could fit the description 

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It was Close House I was referring to and I was told that Â£1,800 got you membership to pay the Filly and with that if you wanted to play the Colt you could be you still had to pay Â£50 green fee. Full membership was over Â£3,000 and that got you access to everything.
 Obviously, now in te present that has changed. None the less still to expensive for me.

Speaking of close house, rumour was the Filly was a flat boring course, so the owner was toying with the idea of adding some features, one mooted was a large pond probably around the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th area


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## thecraw (Feb 11, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			Craw what fee does daddy craw pay
		
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That's simple he pays no fees as he's not a golfer.


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## bigslice (Feb 11, 2013)

Dodger said:



			No need to PM I am more than happy to tell you there is one price for Vets.....full price.
		
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that i like:whoo:


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## thecraw (Feb 11, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			Ours will be 50% of full fee , still more than  double juns and juvs , and still more than associate members fees.
		
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That is in no way justification. Please do not feel that this is a personal thing against you as its not. 

Golf courses are in dire straights up and down the country. Seniors do not deserve reduced fees in my opinion. They should be made to pay the same as everyone else. At a time in life when they can play when they want and probably be financially better off than they have ever been then they should be paying the going rate.

If I shop in Tesco for 30 years do I get 50% discount on every shop?


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## bigslice (Feb 11, 2013)

thecraw said:



			That's simple he pays no fees as he's not a golfer.
		
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not a golfer, i bet he is a bit 'eccentric'


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## Akie (Feb 11, 2013)

I've not seen any local clubs round Manchester charging joining fees when I looked, too much competition for members round here which can only be good.


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## 6inchcup (Feb 11, 2013)

my club has a Â£1,000 joining fee and has a healthy membership and the club runs at a profit so cant be that bad,mostly full of people who like the private members club ethos.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 11, 2013)

thecraw said:



			That's simple he pays no fees as he's not a golfer.
		
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 Is he selling his pings then


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## SocketRocket (Feb 11, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Ooooooooooooft. I will refrain from going into a rant at yourself.
		
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You never answered my question.     It was not a 'Rant'  I am interested why you have such an agist attitude and wondered if you took the same attitude to your parents.

Regarding the suggestion that Seniors are somehow sponging on clubs I believe this is untrue and a biased opinion.   My club does not subsidise Seniors but gives substantial discounts to members from 21 to 30 years of age, I guess you are also against this. The Seniors make up around 60% of the club and are the main revenue stream and I believe this to be the case in most clubs.

I would agree that Seniors should pay the normal membership rate, thats fair enough but remember you will be a senior one day, if you make it, and will probably not be happy about some ageist bigot decrying you as a codger and a sponger on the club you have supported for so long.


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## richart (Feb 12, 2013)

I assume as people live longer now, Clubs will have on average more Senior members as a percentage of membership.( Same as the average age of the population, and more pensioners) I can't see how Clubs will survive if they charge Seniors less. Never quite understood why they should pay less, play more, and not necessarily be the poorest members in the first case.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 12, 2013)

richart said:



			I assume as people live longer now, Clubs will have on average more Senior members as a percentage of membership.( Same as the average age of the population, and more pensioners) I can't see how Clubs will survive if they charge Seniors less. Never quite understood why they should pay less, play more, and not necessarily be the poorest members in the first case.
		
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Generally speaking I dont believe they do pay less.  Intermediate members 21 - 30 normally get a discount though.


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## thecraw (Feb 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			You never answered my question.     It was not a 'Rant'  I am interested why you have such an agist attitude and wondered if you took the same attitude to your parents.

Regarding the suggestion that Seniors are somehow sponging on clubs I believe this is untrue and a biased opinion.   My club does not subsidise Seniors but gives substantial discounts to members from 21 to 30 years of age, I guess you are also against this. The Seniors make up around 60% of the club and are the main revenue stream and I believe this to be the case in most clubs.

I would agree that Seniors should pay the normal membership rate, thats fair enough but remember you will be a senior one day, if you make it, and will probably not be happy about some ageist bigot decrying you as a codger and a sponger on the club you have supported for so long.
		
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Let me go through your post. Show me where I have been ageist please. If your referring to the word codger then I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word. 




*codger [ËˆkÉ’dÊ’É™]
n
Informal a man, esp an old or eccentric one: a term of affection or mild derision (often in the phrase old codger)*

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*codgÂ·er  (kjr)
n. Informal
A somewhat eccentric man, especially an old one.*

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I'm also delighted to hear that your home club takes a sensible view on seniors rates. Up here a lot of clubs such as Valentino's offer a discount as loyalty for staying with a club 30 years. I find this business model incredible and fraught with danger. The population is getting older and people are living longer. I can't understand why if you chose to be a member at a club for X amount of time why you should be rewarded. Your already being rewarded by being a member and getting to use the facilities which you pay for. 

Again based on the model up here, not your club which I know nothing about, some clubs are being fleeced and passing on the short fall in revenue to ordinary members. I find this totally unacceptable and more ageist than calling someone a name which is not ageist!!!!

As per a previous post I also don't understand, sorry I dismiss the argument that these people have kept the club going for the last 30 or 40 years when you were in nappies. I'll also keep the club going by paying my fees when they are no longer with us so its swings and roundabouts. I certainly do not expect to get reduced fees when I hit 65 or have been with the club X amount of years. Again as per earlier on in this thread I don't get 50% discount in Tesco for 30 years loyal shopping!

Finally, also as per an earlier post I know why clubs offer discount to 18-30 year olds. Its to do with recent studies by clubs which show that this is the age group that they are most likely to lose through further education, jump up to full fees from junior membership, marriage, house buying etc. Its an attempt to keep them. I agree in an intermediate bracket for people coming from junior membership into full adult membership as it can be a huge jump in price. 

I do think it should be capped at 25 and not 30 though. It should also operate on a sliding scale with fees increasing slightly year on year. 

People can call me what they like, its water off a ducks back mate, however I would also be careful about branding someone and "ageist" and a "bigot" on a public forum. 

As per my dad, the affectionate term for him is the "old duffer".


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 12, 2013)

Most discounts for senior golfers relate to many years membership.
When younger members see a gaggle of seniors playing they generally make the wrong assumption that they are all paying reduced fees whilst in reality the majority are full paying members.

There is generally financial benefit to the club having a group of players using the course at off peak times, catering , pro etc. Reduced fee members should be restricted at peak times.

Many retired folk are now the most affluent in our society.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 12, 2013)

What about offering discounts for cash on membership fees?  Is that OK?


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## Val (Feb 12, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			What about offering discounts for cash on membership fees?  Is that OK?
		
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My club and many wont take actual pound notes due to security of having that amount of cash in the clubhouse, they will let you pay by debit or credit card but add the card fees on. Cheapest option is cheque.


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## moogie (Feb 12, 2013)

How,  in this day and age,  of equality,  are clubs being allowed to offer such huge discounts to seniors.....??
I thought a club had to prove there was a "shortfall" in a certain category,  or age bracket,  to justify any type of discounts,  or incentives.....??
As has been said by others,  these clubs are playing a dangerous game,  with the clubs current finances,  as well as the future existence of the club itself
My previous club,  gave seniors & ladies 5 years of notice,  that their membership fees would catch up with the full paying member fees at the club,  and that it HAD TO,  otherwise the club was only going in 1 direction...........down the pan......!!!
My current club,  (I believe) has 1 fee only,  they don't advertise any others,  except for upto 21yr olds,  where a discount is applied,  and this I am more than happy with

Offering 30-50 per cent discounts to anybody,  is complete madness,  irrespective of loyalty


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 12, 2013)

moogie said:



			How,  in this day and age,  of equality,  are clubs being allowed to offer such huge discounts to seniors.....??
		
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I think the words _golf_ and _equality_ are often not good bedfellows.


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## bigslice (Feb 12, 2013)

moogie said:



			How,  in this day and age,  of equality,  are clubs being allowed to offer such huge discounts to seniors.....??
I thought a club had to prove there was a "shortfall" in a certain category,  or age bracket,  to justify any type of discounts,  or incentives.....??
As has been said by others,  these clubs are playing a dangerous game,  with the clubs current finances,  as well as the future existence of the club itself
My previous club,  gave seniors & ladies 5 years of notice,  that their membership fees would catch up with the full paying member fees at the club,  and that it HAD TO,  otherwise the club was only going in 1 direction...........down the pan......!!!
My current club,  (I believe) has 1 fee only,  they don't advertise any others,  except for upto 21yr olds,  where a discount is applied,  and this I am more than happy with

Offering 30-50 per cent discounts to anybody,  is complete madness,  irrespective of loyalty
		
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oooh it gets better, some clubs still have if youve been a member for say 40 years straight, you then get FREE golf for the rest of your life


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2013)

Scadge said:



			I tend to like joining fees, makes me think that the membership is going to be pretty stable, that the course is confident in its offering and that there is something intrinsically valuable in being a member.  I might be stupid though as I did pay out a king's ransome to be a member of a club in Ireland thinking I would be there for keeps.
		
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+1 agree on this


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Being voted for next season as follows, not seniors as such but a veteran member

20 years - 50%
25 years - 45%
30 years - 40%
35 years - 35%

And thats them getting better for the club, 35 years was 27.5% last year.
		
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Absolutely 0% reduction for Seniors in our place - all 7 dayers (inc Ladies) other than those in the youth transition scheme pay the same.  5 day membership is 75% of 7 day.

The other side of the Joining Fee coin is that by requiring a joining fee the club is making an up front commitment to the new member.  

You are paying a lot of money up front.  We will give you a good and enjoyable membership experience from the word go.  So to this end new members are personally introduced to various long standing members and roll-up groups by the secretary.  The secretary organises for the new member to play in club comps if he/she wants etc.  So as a new member you should and need never feel an outsider - a newbie.  And to be honest I think that that that is the case.  I am still pleasantly surprised when a bloke I don't know sits down and immediately starts chatting to others around us, swapping banter etc as if they've known each other for years - and I find out he only joined two weeks previous.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2013)

moogie said:



			How,  in this day and age,  of equality,  are clubs being allowed to offer such huge discounts to seniors.....??
I thought a club had to prove there was a "shortfall" in a certain category,  or age bracket,  to justify any type of discounts,  or incentives.....??
As has been said by others,  these clubs are playing a dangerous game,  with the clubs current finances,  as well as the future existence of the club itself
My previous club,  gave seniors & ladies 5 years of notice,  that their membership fees would catch up with the full paying member fees at the club,  and that it HAD TO,  otherwise the club was only going in 1 direction...........down the pan......!!!
My current club,  (I believe) has 1 fee only,  they don't advertise any others,  except for upto 21yr olds,  where a discount is applied,  and this I am more than happy with

Offering 30-50 per cent discounts to anybody,  is complete madness,  irrespective of loyalty
		
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I think that in some circumstances it may be appropriate for clubs to give seniors a reduction (we don't) - but even then the club has to be pragmatic as it has to survive on it's income and membership income is most of that.  However if the club is very much a 'community' club, and the seniors section is very active (and puts a lot of money over the bar and food counter etc) then I think a case can be made.  Further in community clubs an active senior section might also arrange 'non-club' activities on club premises.  These all help. 

But 50% reduction if you have been a member for 25yrs etc.? That'd be say from 30-55 - so in some clubs means having been a member from end of 'transition' to entering 'seniority'.  There is some logic in that I guess - but 50% reduction?  And I can't still but think 25 yrs subs = 25 yrs full membership golf.  When I renew my membership do I expect to receive a letter thanking me for renewing?  Well no - not really.  Who is thanking me? As I part own the club I'd be thanking myself for being a member


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 12, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You are paying a lot of money up front.  We will give you a good and enjoyable membership experience from the word go.
		
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Without wishing to be too Anne Robinson, or is it Matt Allwright nowadays, shouldn't any club or organisation what wants to keep people be kind of giving them a good experience from the word go anyway.  I freely admit I am not versed in the ways of golf club membership, but you should not have to pay an additional fee to get that, surely?.


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## User20205 (Feb 12, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			Without wishing to be too Anne Robinson, or is it Matt Allwright nowadays, shouldn't any club or organisation what wants to keep people be kind of giving them a good experience from the word go anyway.  I freely admit I am not versed in the ways of golf club membership, but you should not have to pay an additional fee to get that, surely?.
		
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if a club can command a joining fee then it will, if it can't it won't. The quality of the course/club will dictate that.  

I believe there could be a correlation between a joining fee and a quality club experience, simplistically speaking those that have a joining fee have a more stable membership, and in most cases the members get a say in how the club is run. 

I'm no great fan of joining fees as a concept, but have paid one so I can't slate them. I was happy to part with the cash as I thought I was getting value.


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## Akie (Feb 12, 2013)

I don't see the issue regarding discounts for seniors or for players under 30. I'm currently looking at clubs around Manchester and they all have different policies on subscription prices for these age brackets so some clubs obviously want to improve their membership in these age ranges by offering reduced membership whilst others don't, stick with the clubs that don't if you feel strongly against this issue. Although to be fair I'm biased as I'm 27 and looking for a club that may offer reduced membership fees to someone my age but if I stay a member after I pass 30 and start paying full rates then it's to that clubs benefit.


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## dm2583 (Feb 12, 2013)

Akie said:



			I don't see the issue regarding discounts for seniors or for players under 30. I'm currently looking at clubs around Manchester and they all have different policies on subscription prices for these age brackets so some clubs obviously want to improve their membership in these age ranges by offering reduced membership whilst others don't, stick with the clubs that don't if you feel strongly against this issue. Although to be fair I'm biased as I'm 27 and looking for a club that may offer reduced membership fees to someone my age but if I stay a member after I pass 30 and start paying full rates then it's to that clubs benefit.
		
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I fall in to a similar age bracket to you and when I joined my club last year on reduced fee's, I was told after the age of 30, I'd have to repay over a period of time, the amount of discount I had received in my 20's. Is that not how the reduced rate for 'younger' members system works?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2013)

therod said:



			if a club can command a joining fee then it will, if it can't it won't. The quality of the course/club will dictate that.  

I believe there could be a correlation between a joining fee and a quality club experience, simplistically speaking those that have a joining fee have a more stable membership, and in most cases the members get a say in how the club is run. 

I'm no great fan of joining fees as a concept, but have paid one so I can't slate them. I was happy to part with the cash as I thought I was getting value.
		
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Likewise.  If my membership experience had turned out to be rubbish I'd probably have cut my losses and left.  But it hasn't and I haven't.  Ten years on and my club membership, not just playing golf, is an important part of my life.

And I'll add that on a daily basis I am grateful that I can be a member of an excellent golf club.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 12, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Let me go through your post. Show me where I have been ageist please. If your referring to the word codger then I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word. 

As per my dad, the affectionate term for him is the "old duffer".
		
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Your post is a cop out, you have shown on a number of occasions your disrespect to older people.   You may refer to your father in those terms but would you be happy with strangers using similar.  I would guess not.


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## Akie (Feb 12, 2013)

dm2583 said:



			I fall in to a similar age bracket to you and when I joined my club last year on reduced fee's, I was told after the age of 30, I'd have to repay over a period of time, the amount of discount I had received in my 20's. Is that not how the reduced rate for 'younger' members system works?
		
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I haven't read that at the courses that offer it? Certainly hope it isnt as I'd rather pay the right amount each year than pay it back in years to come.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 12, 2013)

dm2583 said:



			I fall in to a similar age bracket to you and when I joined my club last year on reduced fee's, I was told after the age of 30, I'd have to repay over a period of time, the amount of discount I had received in my 20's. Is that not how the reduced rate for 'younger' members system works?
		
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Don't think it works that way in my club.  Straightforward reduced subs. The reduced fee is to attract new under 30s members, and to keep juniors who move to full membership and who also may be heading off to uni/college or into work but may not getting paid a great deal.


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## Akie (Feb 12, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Don't think it works that way in my club.  Straightforward reduced subs. The reduced fee is to attract new under 30s members, and to keep juniors who move to full membership and who also may be heading off to uni/college or into work but may not getting paid a great deal.
		
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Yeah that was my understanding of it. Catching the 21-30 bracket I thought was an idea to get them on the reduced subs and hopefully have a player for most of their life as they pay full subs through their 30s, 40s etc.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 12, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			Ours will be 50% of full fee , still more than  double juns and juvs , and still more than associate members fees.
		
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I've just read new agm proposals, concessionary fees are being increased in steps of 5% per year till they pay 70%. I'll be paying approx Â£450.00, thats dearer than some other local courses ,full members fees


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## Bomber69 (Feb 12, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			I've just read new agm proposals, concessionary fees are being increased in steps of 5% per year till they pay 70%. I'll be paying approx Â£450.00, thats dearer than some other local courses ,full members fees
		
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Â£450.00 for Bellshill, I would not pay them that for full membership. 

If I was you I would be looking about for a better course than Bellshill, deffo not even in the top 10 in the area.


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## dm2583 (Feb 12, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Don't think it works that way in my club.  Straightforward reduced subs. The reduced fee is to attract new under 30s members, and to keep juniors who move to full membership and who also may be heading off to uni/college or into work but may not getting paid a great deal.
		
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i must have misinterpreted the way it works, the more i think about it, the more it just sounds wrong!


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## Akie (Feb 12, 2013)

dm2583 said:



			i must have misinterpreted the way it works, the more i think about it, the more it just sounds wrong!
		
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Let me know, wouldnt surprise me if that was the offer at some places but don't think its common place.


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## williamalex1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Bomber69 said:



			Â£450.00 for Bellshill, I would not pay them that for full membership. 

If I was you I would be looking about for a better course than Bellshill, deffo not even in the top 10 in the area.
		
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 Cheers Bomber, i'm glad someone thinks i should be paying less most on here think i should be paying more. 
The course is not as bad as you suggest it's on a par or better with most local tracks, only a couple are better  It's like i said Cheers where everybody knows your name and you can aways get a game with a friendly face [mine]. 
I played along with a 2 h/c Glenbervie member at our 2011 open comp, he was impressed with the course but he found it difficult because of the different lies you tend to get.


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## SimonC (Feb 12, 2013)

There is no joining fee at my club. I believe the seniors who have been at the club for 10 years get a discount on their membership although I'm not 100% certain on this.

There is a discount for people aged 19-29 they pay Â£320 a year, full playing members pay Â£780 a year so there is a big discount for this bracket. Until this year the fees then jumped up full playing (Â£780). However the club have decided to reduce the fees of anyone aged 30-35 to Â£500. It just so happened that I turned 30 at the back end of last year so I'm included in this discounted bracket. Until this was introduced I was going to move to a different club for a year as I'm getting married in July (putting my flame suit on as I type). I could not justify the big increase in the fees but now it's a little more manageable and obviously will remain so for a further 4 years hence why I will definitely be staying put.


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## thecraw (Feb 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Your post is a cop out, you have shown on a number of occasions your disrespect to older people.   You may refer to your father in those terms but would you be happy with strangers using similar.  I would guess not.
		
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I answered your question in full. If you fail to understand that then I guess I can't really make it any clearer. If you deserve respect and show respect you get respect. Respect is earned, tolerance is a totally different concept!


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## Dodger (Feb 12, 2013)

thecraw said:



			I answered your question in full. If you fail to understand that then I guess I can't really make it any clearer. If you deserve respect and show respect you get respect. Respect is earned, tolerance is a totally different concept!
		
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Craw,he is clearly on the wind up and trying to get a reaction.....isn't he?

Surely...


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## bigslice (Feb 12, 2013)

thecraw said:



			I answered your question in full. If you fail to understand that then I guess I can't really make it any clearer. If you deserve respect and show respect you get respect. Respect is earned, tolerance is a totally different concept!
		
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glad i didnt say what i call OAPs then. although i dont class it as offensive some may but they coffin dodgers will keep calling me son, sonny jim and yun un. oops i just did


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## Birchy (Feb 12, 2013)

Akie said:



			I don't see the issue regarding discounts for seniors or for players under 30. I'm currently looking at clubs around Manchester and they all have different policies on subscription prices for these age brackets so some clubs obviously want to improve their membership in these age ranges by offering reduced membership whilst others don't, stick with the clubs that don't if you feel strongly against this issue. Although to be fair I'm biased as I'm 27 and looking for a club that may offer reduced membership fees to someone my age but if I stay a member after I pass 30 and start paying full rates then it's to that clubs benefit.
		
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What clubs you been looking at around Manchester? You been to try any courses out?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 12, 2013)

thecraw said:



			I answered your question in full. If you fail to understand that then I guess I can't really make it any clearer. If you deserve respect and show respect you get respect. Respect is earned, tolerance is a totally different concept!
		
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Well we agree on something then.   I have no respect for your views but will tolerate them as its a Forum.


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## stevie_r (Feb 12, 2013)

It's all relative, I refer to old people by derogatory names and question their aroma - I'm pretty sure young uns do the same to me.

I still call spectacle wearers speccy so and so's and I've worn them myself for 4 years


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## SocketRocket (Feb 12, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			It's all relative, I refer to old people by derogatory names and question their aroma - I'm pretty sure young uns do the same to me.

I still call spectacle wearers speccy so and so's and I've worn them myself for 4 years 

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Oh! I see now, it's OK then!  Thanks for the enlightenment.


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## stevie_r (Feb 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Oh! I see now, it's OK then!  Thanks for the enlightenment.
		
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not at all old chap, think nothing of it


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## Farneyman (Feb 12, 2013)

I paid a joining fee to join my club and was happy to do so. Apart from the transition from junior to full membership I can't see any reason to give someone money off their fees. 

I don't care how long someone is/was a member, I believe they should pay full price especially if they want to play golf.

Let them remain a social member of the club with access to the clubhouse etc for free, but if the want to play they pay full whack.

Why should I supplement some old guy who I don't even know just because he's been a member for x years?


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## thecraw (Feb 12, 2013)

Farneyman said:



			I paid a joining fee to join my club and was happy to do so. Apart from the transition from junior to full membership I can't see any reason to give someone money off their fees. 

I don't care how long someone is/was a member, I believe they should pay full price especially if they want to play golf.

Let them remain a social member of the club with access to the clubhouse etc for free, but if the want to play they pay full whack.

Why should I supplement some old guy who I don't even know just because he's been a member for x years?
		
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Right that's it I'm reporting this post, your clearly an ageist bigot!









:rofl:


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## Val (Feb 12, 2013)

Farneyman said:



			I paid a joining fee to join my club and was happy to do so. Apart from the transition from junior to full membership I can't see any reason to give someone money off their fees. 

I don't care how long someone is/was a member, I believe they should pay full price especially if they want to play golf.

Let them remain a social member of the club with access to the clubhouse etc for free, but if the want to play they pay full whack.

Why should I supplement some old guy who I don't even know just because he's been a member for x years?
		
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Fabian, do you know what the seniors/vets deal is at your club?


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## Farneyman (Feb 12, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Fabian, do you know what the seniors/vets deal is at your club?
		
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Not clear enough to post here. Will do once I get clarification though.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 12, 2013)

thecraw said:



			Right that's it I'm reporting this post, your clearly an ageist bigot!
		
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Stupid Boy Pike.


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## DCB (Feb 12, 2013)

Can you two not agree to disagree 


Aye, you know who I mean


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## Farneyman (Feb 12, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Stupid Boy Pike.
		
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Keep going, you will reach 3000 posts with this dribble. 

Rocket by name rocket by nature...


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## User20205 (Feb 12, 2013)

Farneyman said:



			Keep going, you will reach 3000 posts with this dribble. 

Rocket by name rocket by nature...
		
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what we need is a list of approved terms for the elderly. Maybe Socket could produce it then we will know the boundaries


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## Hobbit (Feb 12, 2013)

I guess I grew up(old) in the age of joining fees and don't have a problem with them - I've paid plenty of them as I've moved around the UK. I've always had the view that the money invested in the club = spent on me.

However, although I've been a member at a number of clubs that give a discount for seniors, or members with 25/30yrs service, I've always disagreed with it. The loyalty that many seniors use as an excuse for entitlement is a load of... any and everyone of them would have walked out the door if it had suited them to do so. They didn't stay out of loyalty, they stayed because it suited their golfing needs. 

And as for the disposable income of many senior members; just how many of them are on private pensions and have no mortgages?

Discount for the 25-30yr group. Whilst I understand why clubs want to entice this age group in, and offer discounts to do so, I wonder how many golfers in this age group, on reduced subs, afford holidays abroad every year? I'd limit this discount to 25yrs of age - let the youngster decide their priorities, lad's trip to Spain or their golf...


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## thecraw (Feb 12, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			I guess I grew up(old) in the age of joining fees and don't have a problem with them - I've paid plenty of them as I've moved around the UK. I've always had the view that the money invested in the club = spent on me.

However, although I've been a member at a number of clubs that give a discount for seniors, or members with 25/30yrs service, I've always disagreed with it. The loyalty that many seniors use as an excuse for entitlement is a load of... any and everyone of them would have walked out the door if it had suited them to do so. They didn't stay out of loyalty, they stayed because it suited their golfing needs. 

And as for the disposable income of many senior members; just how many of them are on private pensions and have no mortgages?

Discount for the 25-30yr group. Whilst I understand why clubs want to entice this age group in, and offer discounts to do so, I wonder how many golfers in this age group, on reduced subs, afford holidays abroad every year? I'd limit this discount to 25yrs of age - let the youngster decide their priorities, lad's trip to Spain or their golf...
		
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Sensible sensible sensible post.

Give this man a Kit-Kat. 


:cheers:


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## richart (Feb 12, 2013)

therod said:



			what we need is a list of approved terms for the elderly. Maybe Socket could produce it then we will know the boundaries
		
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 Imurg, TXL and myself were called coffin dodgers by a whippersnapper on here. : Slightly ironic considering you could bury a coffin in the divots he was leaving on the tees.


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## Imurg (Feb 12, 2013)

richart said:



			Imurg, TXL and myself were called coffin dodgers by a whippersnapper on here. : Slightly ironic considering you could bury a coffin in the divots he was leaving on the tees.

Click to expand...

You had to bring that up again didn't you......:rofl:

Hey JonBoy - where's yer JCB?:clap::clap::clap:


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## User20205 (Feb 12, 2013)

richart said:



			Imurg, TXL and myself were called coffin dodgers by a whippersnapper on here. : Slightly ironic considering you could bury a coffin in the divots he was leaving on the tees.

Click to expand...


I'm not gonna comment as I'm probably closer in age to you lot. Well maybe not Anthony 

If Jon is Aztecs. Is there any truth to the rumour he's only got facial hair to stop him being asked for Id in the pub!


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## Imurg (Feb 12, 2013)

therod said:



			I'm not gonna comment as I'm probably closer in age to you lot. Well maybe not Anthony 

If Jon is Aztecs. Is there any truth to the rumour he's only got facial hair to stop him being asked for Id in the pub!
		
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You might say that but of course I couldn't possibly comment......


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## User20205 (Feb 12, 2013)

Imurg said:



			You might say that but of course I couldn't possibly comment......
		
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It needs a bit more work if you ask me. He doesn't need a shave, just needs to stand out on a strong wind!

Anyway shouldn't you old timers be in bed. Isn't it lights out in the home at 9pm?


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## williamalex1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Hobbit said:



			I guess I grew up(old) in the age of joining fees and don't have a problem with them - I've paid plenty of them as I've moved around the UK. I've always had the view that the money invested in the club = spent on me.

However, although I've been a member at a number of clubs that give a discount for seniors, or members with 25/30yrs service, I've always disagreed with it. The loyalty that many seniors use as an excuse for entitlement is a load of... any and everyone of them would have walked out the door if it had suited them to do so. They didn't stay out of loyalty, they stayed because it suited their golfing needs. 

And as for the disposable income of many senior members; just how many of them are on private pensions and have no mortgages?

Discount for the 25-30yr group. Whilst I understand why clubs want to entice this age group in, and offer discounts to do so, I wonder how many golfers in this age group, on reduced subs, afford holidays abroad every year? I'd limit this discount to 25yrs of age - let the youngster decide their priorities, lad's trip to Spain or their golf...
		
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 As a old codger i agree with all you say ,so take away all discounts.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 12, 2013)

therod said:



			what we need is a list of approved terms for the elderly. Maybe Socket could produce it then we will know the boundaries
		
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I commented due to someone calling Seniors 'Codgers'  I would also comment on Juniors.    If vilifying people due to their age is OK with you and you need a 'list' of approved terms then I think that is a sad reflection on the way people see the elderly in this country.

Make another sarcastic comment if you wish, it only goes to make my point.


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## wolf1x1 (Feb 12, 2013)

I have just paid my dues to join a new club for myself and my son, to be honest if they had had a joining fee then i wouldn't have joined, it comes down to basic finance and with 2 teenagers now way i would be spending extra cash on an unneccesary expense, i would just have joined a different club.


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## JCW (Feb 13, 2013)

In my area , Broadstone , Joining fee Â£900 , subs Â£1230,  waiting list , Ferndown , Â£1750 , Subs Â£1531 , some special offers on joining , was Â£2500 to join , Parkstone , Â£2250 joining fee , Subs Â£1400 appox , waiting list , 

 my club no joining fee ,  subs Â£795 , so i guess its what you are prepared to pay and what you want, some clubs use joining fees to improve and update courses and others to balance the books or raise funds , the choice is yours and will you be happy at your new club ?


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## wolf1x1 (Feb 13, 2013)

JCW said:



			, the choice is yours and will you be happy at your new club ?
		
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I honestly dont see why i wouldn't be happy at the course i have just joined


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## thecraw (Feb 13, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			I *commented due to someone calling Seniors 'Codgers*'  I would also comment on Juniors.    If vilifying people due to their age is OK with you and you need a 'list' of approved terms then I think that is a sad reflection on the way people see the elderly in this country.

Make another sarcastic comment if you wish, it only goes to make my point.
		
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Did you not read the dictionary definition that I posted for you???

I guess its true what they say about leading a horse to water!!!!!!!!

Another coffee bean moment.


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## User20205 (Feb 13, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			I commented due to someone calling Seniors 'Codgers'  I would also comment on Juniors.    If vilifying people due to their age is OK with you and you need a 'list' of approved terms then I think that is a sad reflection on the way people see the elderly in this country.

Make another sarcastic comment if you wish, it only goes to make my point.
		
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With all due respect socket. As craw mentioned it's really a term of endearment!
Also you can't play the captain manwairing role one minute and complain the next, it's a little inconsistent

Or are we back to everyone being really offended at the slightest thing?

As mentioned before I've nothing but respect for the old fellas. Without upstanding chaps like yourself the boer war would never have been won.


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## Akie (Feb 13, 2013)

Birchy said:



			What clubs you been looking at around Manchester? You been to try any courses out?
		
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Louise was kind enough to let me play at Ellsmere on Sunday although the conditions were terrible. I've also played at Boysnope Park and Withington so far.


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## HotDogAssassin (Mar 12, 2013)

dm2583 said:



			I fall in to a similar age bracket to you and when I joined my club last year on reduced fee's, I was told after the age of 30, I'd have to repay over a period of time, the amount of discount I had received in my 20's. Is that not how the reduced rate for 'younger' members system works?
		
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Where in Glos are you a member of?


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