# Military Charities



## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Nowdays there seems to be a lot of military charities around and I just wondered what peoples opinions of them are, personally I think its a persons choice to join up but in doing so they must accept the consequences and outcome associated with that desicion which may include permanent injury.My father was in the RAF for 38 years and we had a good life on it as do the military personnel on an Army base I live near, they benefit from subsidised housing no council tax and and a comfortable life being in the military, theres plenty on new cars parked up on the married quarters and its a world away from the poverty many endure on civvy street.My problem is this, these people have a good life in the military but when things go wrong they expect help when it was their choice to take an occupation with the obvious risks, there were many soldiers in the 1st and 2nd world wars who didnt live a great military life and when injured in battle just got on with it when they returned to civilian life they were soldiers.As ive said you take the risk you get on with it and should you expect the publics help?,ok somebodys got to defend the country but its part and parcel of that job that there could be dire consequences and thats the risk you take signing up, their soldiers they go into battle thats the profession and the chosen risk they have taken in life.I personally would prefer to see peoples charity donations go to the homeless,children who need it or the rspca, opinions guys?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

I can't really put my opinion into the words that befit that post because it would get me a ban 

Military charities are started because the government don't help 

Im actually disgusted that someone would post that 

Remember when the firemen went on strike - guess who covered for them ? 

Remember when the Olympics was about to fall apart due to lack of security - guess who covered them

And every single time it's for no extra pay - the forces are always there for the country - being apart from their families , not signing their children , seeing their comrades die or lose limbs , out there just doing their job and maybe helping people. 

Yes the military is at times a good life - made good by the people in the services.

In 22 years I was with loved ones at Xmas 3 times - the rest I was in a tent in some far flung country.

The government are happy to spend billions on lazy benefits chavs who haven't worked a day in their lives - thankfully the country isn't full of people like you and understand the sacrafices people have made. 

If you ever needed the militaries help I bet you wouldn't need to ask twice


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## AmandaJR (Jun 4, 2014)

I couldn't disagree more with the OP and agree more with Phil...

Help for Heroes is one of the few charities I actively support and always the one I support the most. Always buy a poppy plus for the Legion too.


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## c1973 (Jun 4, 2014)

Personally I tend to support homeless and cancer charities but have also donated to the Erskine foundation in the past which helps ex military and I also donate to Palestinian charities when I come across them. 

I have no problem in doing so either.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 4, 2014)

Surely it is a bit of a numbers game.
The troops who fought in WW2 are sadly all getting towards the end of their lives so the expense of looking after those who needed looking after is no longer applicable.
As an example look at the Chelsea pensioners, many have not seen active service. Why should they benefit from charity when there are many in our society more deserving.

I am all for supporting troops who have suffered injury and will gladly contribute to their well being. 
Thankfully the numbers are much lower these days and perhaps the charitable trusts should scale down accordingly.


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

<Expletive Deleted>

Military charities are at the top of my very short list!

What other occupation would be allowed to put the front line workers at risk of death or disablement, then simply say 'that's part of risk of the job'?!

RSPCA went off my list when it became dominated by the anti-hunting brigade - not that I am particularly for/against hunting; it just seemed/seems a corruption of their role/priorities.

Edit: In this case, LpPhil puts it rather better than I am ever likely to!


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can't really put my opinion into the words that befit that post because it would get me a ban 

Military charities are started because the government don't help 

Im actually disgusted that someone would post that 

Remember when the firemen went on strike - guess who covered for them ? 

Remember when the Olympics was about to fall apart due to lack of security - guess who covered them

And every single time it's for no extra pay - the forces are always there for the country - being apart from their families , not signing their children , seeing their comrades die or lose limbs , out there just doing their job and maybe helping people. 

Yes the military is at times a good life - made good by the people in the services.

In 22 years I was with loved ones at Xmas 3 times - the rest I was in a tent in some far flung country.

The government are happy to spend billions on lazy benefits chavs who haven't worked a day in their lives - thankfully the country isn't full of people like you and understand the sacrafices people have made. 

If you ever needed the militaries help I bet you wouldn't need to ask twice
		
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You opinion is that of an ex serviceman and I'm not suprised in the slightest as the military ex or serving stick together but its not the opinion of many in civvy street.You join up you man up whatever happens, it aint all about mess jollies theres another side to that job that many dont consider when they put pen to paper and sign up.....


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 4, 2014)

Think the OP might be in for some stick on this one

lets keep it civil guys

Personally I disagree with the OP, yes certain things are subsidised, but have you seen the state of some of the accommodation available? these guys and gals are not paid a fortune in the first place and they do put their lives on the line in the name of our country.

Stress levels are high especially in combat zones and some of these guys need help when they leave, the Govt help is useless and so it falls on charities like H4H & Royal British Legion to pick up the pieces.

Another feature of everyday life that sees no government cash is the Hospice system, totally reliant on charity and its wrong.

lots of ex military on here so expect a rough ride


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Surely it is a bit of a numbers game.
The troops who fought in WW2 are sadly all getting towards the end of their lives so the expense of looking after those who needed looking after is no longer applicable.
As an example look at the Chelsea pensioners, many have not seen active service. Why should they benefit from charity when there are many in our society more deserving.

I am all for supporting troops who have suffered injury and will gladly contribute to their well being. 
Thankfully the numbers are much lower these days and perhaps the charitable trusts should scale down accordingly.
		
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Numbers lower ? Still many people needing care from both physical and mental injury 

If anything the need for help as the troops pull out and return to the UK will be bigger - especially the mental side. PTSD will be more evident soon


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## SaintHacker (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			r but its not the opinion of many in civvy street.
		
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Utter tosh.


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## scottbrown (Jun 4, 2014)

I have no military connection at all. Yet h4h is the only charity I give to.

However I shouldn't have too, the government should. We support lazy chav gits who's idea of a pay rise is to have more kids. Yet as a nation we do not support the people who put life on the line to protect our freedom. 

The services deserve all our support, in the states the forces are treated like heroes, over here too many people associate the forces with politics.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

I think the fact that military charities are needed is a utter joke. Especially when the scum in government are scaming on expenses.  also cant belive the need for air ambulance charities. The air ambulance save more lives than you can imagine.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Think the OP might be in for some stick on this one

lets keep it civil guys

Personally I disagree with the OP, yes certain things are subsidised, but have you seen the state of some of the accommodation available? these guys and gals are not paid a fortune in the first place and they do put their lives on the line in the name of our country.

Stress levels are high especially in combat zones and some of these guys need help when they leave, the Govt help is useless and so it falls on charities like H4H & Royal British Legion to pick up the pieces.

Another feature of everyday life that sees no government cash is the Hospice system, totally reliant on charity and its wrong.

lots of ex military on here so expect a rough ride
		
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Hi Phil, I completely disagree with the standard of life you list in your post, as ive said in my first post I live near an Army base and the standard of life for the military there is very high and like I said my father served for 38 yrs and we lived very well. Many who leave and I know this because I have mates who have left the military are in a state of shock in civvy street when they see how hard life is, many go straight from school into the services and dont experiance the hardness in civvy street until they leave.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			You opinion is that of an ex serviceman and I'm not suprised in the slightest as the military ex or serving stick together but its not the opinion of many in civvy street.You join up you man up whatever happens, it aint all about mess jollies theres another side to that job that many dont consider when they put pen to paper and sign up.....
		
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Think it's easier to say that you are clearer wrong if you really think your opinion is shared by many in civvy street - they are able to raise millions because of people generosity in civvy street. In fact I would say your opinion is as rare as rocking horse poo !!

I know I get accused of talking rubbish but you win hands down - you win by a country mile 

I actually hope you are saying these things more for effect than anything but I am disappointed to read such utter nonsense from a UK citizen who is able to sit in comfort because of the bravery of young men and women in the country. 

They are know what what is ahead when they say up - mess jollies ?! Such ignorance is beyond belief.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Numbers lower ? Still many people needing care from both physical and mental injury 

If anything the need for help as the troops pull out and return to the UK will be bigger - especially the mental side. PTSD will be more evident soon
		
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PTSD is not exactly new, we just have a better understanding of it nowadays.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Hi Phil, I completely disagree with the standard of life you list in your post, as ive said in my first post I live near an Army base and the standard of life for the military there is very high and like I said my father served for 38 yrs and we lived very well. Many who leave and I know this because I have mates who have left the military are in a state of shock in civvy street when they see how hard life is, many go straight from school into the services and dont experiance the hardness in civvy street until they leave.
		
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One person couldn't be more wrong - that's the easiest way to put it -you are wrong 

People on benefits get three bedroom houses and Â£20-30 grand a year for doing nothing

Many servicemen live in houses falling apart or single blocks with only a mould stained sink as company ( and still have to pay for the pleasure to live in them )

The accomodation is improving ( officers first off course ) 

Finally camps are getting newer blocks so that someone can have their own shower  but guess what - the government cut the funding for it 

Many Amry camps still have people living in 4 man blocks 

I left the military last year and civvy life is a breeze - I'm finally getting a decent wage that my skills deserve , 

Life maybe hard for some in civvy life - no doubt - lots of government money can be handed out to them though.


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			PTSD is not exactly new, we just have a better understanding of it nowadays.
		
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Yeah! They used to shoot the sufferers!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			PTSD is not exactly new, we just have a better understanding of it nowadays.
		
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It's not new but along with combat stress develops differently in many people 

 Every weekend I used to help out at the combat stress centre near Newport ( the whole centre was dependent on both charity work and help ) - it gets busier and busier every single month.


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## upsidedown (Jun 4, 2014)

I can see from where the OP is coming from and also the side of servicemen as yes they do put their lives on the line if in Afgahnistan.

However there is an occupation which has a high if not higher fatality rate ( depends if you look at % or total deaths), one which we rely on a least 3 times a day every day and very rarely do you hear of a charity for them or survivors .

What occupation ?

Farmers and farm workers  . 29 killed in 2012/13. Killed doing a job that they are under paid for, often living in sub standard housing and working long hours.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			One person couldn't be more wrong - that's the easiest way to put it -you are wrong 

People on benefits get three bedroom houses and Â£20-30 grand a year for doing nothing

Many servicemen live in houses falling apart or single blocks with only a mould stained sink as company ( and still have to pay for the pleasure to live in them )

The accomodation is improving ( officers first off course ) 

Finally camps are getting newer blocks so that someone can have their own shower  but guess what - the government cut the funding for it 

Many Amry camps still have people living in 4 man blocks 

I left the military last year and civvy life is a breeze - I'm finally getting a decent wage that my skills deserve , 

Life maybe hard for some in civvy life - no doubt - lots of government money can be handed out to them though.
		
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I hate to say it but phil is right. He was in the air force too (they attract a higher class of riff raff than the army).   From being in army accommodation i can tell you I'd take a council house any day


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Think it's easier to say that you are clearer wrong if you really think your opinion is shared by many in civvy street - they are able to raise millions because of people generosity in civvy street. In fact I would say your opinion is as rare as rocking horse poo !!

I know I get accused of talking rubbish but you win hands down - you win by a country mile 

I actually hope you are saying these things more for effect than anything but I am disappointed to read such utter nonsense from a UK citizen who is able to sit in comfort because of the bravery of young men and women in the country. 

They are know what what is ahead when they say up - mess jollies ?! Such ignorance is beyond belief.
		
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Again an ex military opinion.......I'm not denying the bravery at all and stand in awe of it but its a personal choice to become a soldier and accept all that goes with it the good times and the bad......and I'll add the men and the woman in the 1st and 2nd world wars had no choice in the matter but got on with life afterwards, some affected yes but they lived without the need for charity.


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			.....and I'll add the men and the woman in the 1st and 2nd world wars had no choice in the matter but got on with life afterwards, some affected yes but *they lived without the need for charity*.
		
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More complete tosh!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Again an ex military opinion.......I'm not denying the bravery at all and stand in awe of it but its a personal choice to become a soldier and accept all that goes with it the good times and the bad......and I'll add the men and the woman in the 1st and 2nd world wars had no choice in the matter but got on with life afterwards, some affected yes but they lived without the need for charity.
		
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So what about Rafa or Army Benevolent fund or Poppy appeal - if you believe that those people who took part in previous wars haven't had to rely on charity then again your ignorance is apparent - many homes around the country are funded by military charities so that they can live out theirs lives in peace and comfort ( because again the government don't do anything )

When the 2nd world war finished - millions of young men and women returned to build a new country - the country was there to support them in building lives after the wars , jobs were there for them or continued careers in the military.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			some affected yes but they lived without the need for charity.
		
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According to my old history teacher. There we're more suicides after the war then died on a battle ground ( cant remeber what battle is was but it was alot of deaths)  perhaps more charity's back then could have stoped veterans hanging themselves


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

hovis said:



			I hate to say it but phil is right. He was in the air force too (they attract a higher class of riff raff than the army).   From being in army accommodation i can tell you I'd take a council house any day
		
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Absolute rubbish! Theres non officers living in 4 bedroom detached houses with garage on the base near where I live paying just Â£350 a month to live there and with no council tax, your way off.....


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Absolute rubbish! Theres non officers living in 4 bedroom detached houses with garage on the base near where I live paying just Â£350 a month to live there and with no council tax, your way off.....
		
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I had a 3 bedroom house to share with one other bloke. The house was that bad we had it rent free.  You also state one case. Im not saying there isnt good army accommodation out there but the majority is way under par.  What part of the army was you in?


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Absolute rubbish! Theres non officers living in 4 bedroom detached houses with garage on the base near where I live paying just Â£350 a month to live there and with no council tax, your way off.....
		
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Who told you that - and which camp is this ? 

Every single military person pays the same equivalent council tax as someone outside the camp 

For my single room with a sink I paid 95 quid a month !!

Grade A accomodation for houses is around Â£600 a month for 3 bed plus Â£75 for each bedroom above.


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## Hobbit (Jun 4, 2014)

What is a military charity to me? It gives me an opportunity to say thank you for their commitment, and to support them in some small way for their sacrifice. Even if the Govt paid out more to support those servicemen in need I'd still cough up as a thank you.

The reality of the situation is they need our help. Turning a blind eye to that, after what they've done for us, is a disgrace.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

hovis said:



			According to my old history teacher. There we're more suicides after the war then died on a battle ground ( cant remeber what battle is was but it was alot of deaths)  perhaps more charity's back then could have stoped veterans hanging themselves
		
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Theres plenty who take their lives now with the help and its a bloody sad state of affairs, but they had the choice to avoid conflict unlike the soldiers in the 1st and 2nd wars.


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## Hobbit (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Absolute rubbish! Theres non officers living in 4 bedroom detached houses with garage on the base near where I live paying just Â£350 a month to live there and with no council tax, your way off.....
		
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You might be right *BUT* that isn't who the military charities support.


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Again an ex military opinion.......I'm not denying the bravery at all and stand in awe of it but its a personal choice to become a soldier and accept all that goes with it the good times and the bad......and I'll add the men and the woman in the 1st and 2nd world wars had no choice in the matter but got on with life afterwards, some affected yes but they lived without the need for charity.
		
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yes it was a different world then, with pretty near full employment, many jobs being labour intensive, a house only cost 4 x your annual salary compared to now when its 10 x plus (certainly down here)

you simply cannot compare then with now, it doesnt compute


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Theres plenty who take their lives now with the help and its a bloody sad state of affairs, but they had the choice to avoid conflict unlike the soldiers in the 1st and 2nd wars.
		
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So it's the soldiers own fault then because they made the choice to defend this country and your ability to sit there and slag them off. 

What you are saying is disgusting

You have a free voice because of people's making a choice to defend the country


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Absolute rubbish! Theres non officers living in 4 bedroom detached houses with garage on the base near where I live paying just Â£350 a month to live there and with no council tax, your way off.....
		
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Seems like an abberation to me - certainly not the norm. Are they the only person/family in the house? Rank?

Pretty sure there's a standard scale for accommodation charges according to rank/status that takes a 'reasonable' amount for reasonable accommodation leaving a reasonable nett wage!

Barracks, Messes and Married Quarters provided by DoD are exempt from Council Tax. MoD actually makes a contribution to Councils in lieu of Council Tax - so an apparent 'perk'. But not really, given the condition of most of them!


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Theres plenty who take their lives now with the help and its a bloody sad state of affairs, but they had the choice to avoid conflict unlike the soldiers in the 1st and 2nd wars.
		
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Are you for real? You said they got on with things without charity back then and im saying if there was charities then perhaps they could have saved the life's of the poor sods made to fight


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it's the soldiers own fault then because they made the choice to defend this country and your ability to sit there and slag them off. 

What you are saying is disgusting

You have a free voice because of people's making a choice to defend the country
		
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This


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## rosecott (Jun 4, 2014)

Thank goodness we have been alerted to the star rating system for threads. Have a look and see how the OP's thread is rated - talk about swimming against the tide.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who told you that - and which camp is this ? 

Every single military person pays the same equivalent council tax as someone outside the camp 

For my single room with a sink I paid 95 quid a month !!

Grade A accomodation for houses is around Â£600 a month for 3 bed plus Â£75 for each bedroom above.
		
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Dont know what RAF you where in but all the military personal get CRT (council tax relief) which has been doubled since 2011,
Â£95 a month for bedsit CT rubbish, I pay Â£80 on a two bedroom house.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So it's the soldiers own fault then because they made the choice to defend this country and your ability to sit there and slag them off. 

What you are saying is disgusting

You have a free voice because of people's making a choice to defend the country
		
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Crap dont put words in my mouth...I havent slagged the military off at all so thats a pathetic argument, ive mearly stated that they sign up to do a specific job that carries huge risks and have to bare the consequences.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Dont know what RAF you where in but all the military personal get CRT (council tax relief) which has been doubled since 2011,
Â£95 a month for bedsit CT rubbish, I pay Â£80 on a two bedroom house.
		
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They get council tax relief when they are out of the country on operations as well as relief on properties they own but can't live in due to being posted away

And yes I paid that for my room. 

I'm actually stating facts from experience - your is just total nonsense ( which is your theme for this thread )


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Crap dont put words in my mouth...I havent slagged the military off at all so thats a pathetic argument, ive mearly stated that they sign up to do a specific job that carries huge risks and have to bare the consequences.
		
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You are pretty much stating that it's their own fault what happens to them in the military and they must "man up" I think you said !!


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			they sign up to do a specific job that carries huge risks and have to bare the consequences.
		
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What would you say if you fell at work and hurt your back so you couldn't work. Then your employers said oh well, good luck


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## rosecott (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Dont know what RAF you where in but *all the military personal get CRT *(council tax relief) which has been doubled since 2011,
Â£95 a month for bedsit CT rubbish, I pay Â£80 on a two bedroom house.
		
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CRT applies only to personnel on operational service abroad. At the risk of provoking action from the mods, get your facts right before you go near a keyboard.


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## Break90 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Nowdays there seems to be a lot of military charities around and I just wondered what peoples opinions of them are, personally I think its a persons choice to join up but in doing so they must accept the consequences and outcome associated with that desicion which may include permanent injury.My father was in the RAF for 38 years and we had a good life on it as do the military personnel on an Army base I live near, they benefit from subsidised housing no council tax and and a comfortable life being in the military, theres plenty on new cars parked up on the married quarters and its a world away from the poverty many endure on civvy street.My problem is this, these people have a good life in the military but when things go wrong they expect help when it was their choice to take an occupation with the obvious risks, there were many soldiers in the 1st and 2nd world wars who didnt live a great military life and when injured in battle just got on with it when they returned to civilian life they were soldiers.As ive said you take the risk you get on with it and should you expect the publics help?,ok somebodys got to defend the country but its part and parcel of that job that there could be dire consequences and thats the risk you take signing up, their soldiers they go into battle thats the profession and the chosen risk they have taken in life.I personally would prefer to see peoples charity donations go to the homeless,children who need it or the rspca, opinions guys?
		
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Wow!!! I really hope you are either fishing or on the sauce.

have you served your country? I guess not based on your post. I also haven't but I support the troops where I can through H4H, poppy appeal etc. For my money, the troops are underpaid, expected to make the ultimate sacrifice if necessary, and very badly supported (if supported at all) when they encounter issues following active service. 

Sounds like you're having a rant because you have to pay council tax and don't have a nice house and a nice car like a minority who live on a base near you. But then again I suppose you have the luxury of not being sent across the world to risk your life protecting the rest of us.

Before hitting the post button ive just read your post again and for once I am rendered speechless.


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## guest100718 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Nowdays there seems to be a lot of military charities around and I just wondered what peoples opinions of them are, personally I think its a persons choice to join up but in doing so they must accept the consequences and outcome associated with that desicion which may include permanent injury.My father was in the RAF for 38 years and we had a good life on it as do the military personnel on an Army base I live near, they benefit from subsidised housing no council tax and and a comfortable life being in the military, theres plenty on new cars parked up on the married quarters and its a world away from the poverty many endure on civvy street.My problem is this, these people have a good life in the military but when things go wrong they expect help when it was their choice to take an occupation with the obvious risks, there were many soldiers in the 1st and 2nd world wars who didnt live a great military life and when injured in battle just got on with it when they returned to civilian life they were soldiers.As ive said you take the risk you get on with it and should you expect the publics help?,ok somebodys got to defend the country but its part and parcel of that job that there could be dire consequences and thats the risk you take signing up, their soldiers they go into battle thats the profession and the chosen risk they have taken in life.I personally would prefer to see peoples charity donations go to the homeless,children who need it or the rspca, opinions guys?
		
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lol,you certainly know how to pick a fight!


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## PhilTheFragger (Jun 4, 2014)

Wonder if the OP is attending the H4H day

Thats a no probably


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 4, 2014)

Making donations to a charity is optional. If you don't agree with a charity then don't donate. 
Really not sure what you hoped to achieve with this thread


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

Shivas what is the army bases near you please ?


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

Shivas

What in tarnation triggered this thread? 

Has your Daughter/Sister just been gazumped by some military bod for a house?

Or Mother/Sister passed shunted down a priority list for an operation or place in a home?

Turned down as a Caddy at Nayland in favour of an ex-Serviceman?

You've expressed some weird opinions in previous threads, but this thread takes the biscuit!


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			lol,you certainly know how to pick a fight!
		
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And that's being ..er... charitable!


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Shivas what is the army bases near you please ?
		
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He's that misinformed about everything i wouldnt be suprised if it was 'butlins'


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## Break90 (Jun 4, 2014)

hovis said:



			He's that misinformed about everything i wouldnt be suprised if it was 'butlins'
		
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I was thinking Center Parcs.......


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They get council tax relief when they are out of the country on operations as well as relief on properties they own but can't live in due to being posted away

And yes I paid that for my room. 

I'm actually stating facts from experience - your is just total nonsense ( which is your theme for this thread )
		
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You stating facts from an ex serviceman point of view and cant see the other side of the argument.
Whats your opinion on this Liverpoolphil,I work in Security and get a decent rate but many guys who have an SIA licence are paid the minimum wage thats right Â£6.50 an hour (recently gone up to that)with no subsidised housing etc, need tax credits to survive and drive wrecks,guys in this industry have been shot,had cars driven at them at night club entrances causing massive injury, attacked with machetes and lost limbs and suffered psycological problems through their work and had to give up and what help do they get? Sweet FA, its a risky job but they get on with it, opinion Phil?????


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## rosecott (Jun 4, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Shivas

What in tarnation triggered this thread? 

Has your Daughter/Sister just been gazumped by some military bod for a house?

Or Mother/Sister passed shunted down a priority list for an operation or place in a home?

Turned down as a Caddy at Nayland in favour of an ex-Serviceman?

You've expressed some weird opinions in previous threads, but this thread takes the biscuit!
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should start a new thread with a competition to find the best suggestions for what might have set the OP off.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			You stating facts from an ex serviceman point of view and cant see the other side of the argument.
Whats your opinion on this Liverpoolphil,I work in Security and get a decent rate but many guys who have an SIA licence are paid the minimum wage thats right Â£6.50 an hour (recently gone up to that)with no subsidised housing etc, need tax credits to survive and drive wrecks,guys in this industry have been shot,had cars driven at them at night club entrances causing massive injury, attacked with machetes and lost limbs and suffered psycological problems through their work and had to give up and what help do they get? Sweet FA, its a risky job but they get on with it, opinion Phil?????
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but they are not serving this country ! They are not putting their lives on the line for the country - chalk and cheese. 

There is zero comparison and it's disgusting you are even trying to justify yourself.

If you want to start a charity to help people who work in the private security sector then away you go


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			You stating facts from an ex serviceman point of view and cant see the other side of the argument.
Whats your opinion on this Liverpoolphil,I work in Security and get a decent rate but many guys who have an SIA licence are paid the minimum wage thats right Â£6.50 an hour (recently gone up to that)with no subsidised housing etc, need tax credits to survive and drive wrecks,guys in this industry have been shot,had cars driven at them at night club entrances causing massive injury, attacked with machetes and lost limbs and suffered psycological problems through their work and had to give up and what help do they get? Sweet FA, its a risky job but they get on with it, opinion Phil?????
		
Click to expand...

That's no reason to attack the Military!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 4, 2014)

A bit of bullying going on here folks.
I get Shivas's point and, as I said, it's a numbers thing.
Anyone know how much the Poppy appeal raises anually?
Anyone know how many UK injured service men and women need care in 2014 compared to 1980.

I know the H4H thing came about because of a shameful lack of government funding to look after our injured troops.
At the same time our troops were given poor quality armour and equipment. 
I fully support H4H, but think that as a duty of care it should be funded by the taxpayer and not a charity.

BTW there are many UK workers who put their lives on the line to protect and serve the public.
Miners, Police, NHS staff. Social workers and Doormen for starters.


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 4, 2014)

Personally I give out of my salary to a young carers charity and a cancer charity. One because I know several people who have had cancer and chances are someone in my family will suffer from it at some time, and the other because I personally think young carers are the bravest and most selfless people on the planet.  No one should miss out on a proper childhood, but these people mostly do to look after others.  

 I also make sure I buy several poppies every year and put a decent amount into every collection I see selling them.  Plus end up contributing to comic and sports relief when they show the sad films which I know is emotional blackmail, but it works, so why not.

I suppose in a way I am doing this because I tend to try and help people who have got in a situation through no fault of their own, people who never had a fair chance in life.  

There are so many deserving causes out there so people should give based on their values and beliefs, you can't really compare or rank one against another.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

All the people who are critical of me on here can you respond to my last post number 52...
RAF Wattisham Phil RAF left in the early 90's now an army base.


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

rosecott said:



			Perhaps we should start a new thread with a competition to find the best suggestions for what might have set the OP off.
		
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Pound in 50% to closest and 50% to H4H! :rofl:

I think the post a couple down from yours might give a clue though!



shivas irons said:



			All the people who are critical of me on here can you respond to my last post number 52...
		
Click to expand...

Been there done that!

Now you explain how they are comparable?

How about Mining charities - fighting for those with all sorts of incapacitating issues!

And the question has to be asked why are the perpetrators of the crimes against the Security folk able to do so?


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## Pin-seeker (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			All the people who are critical of me on here can you respond to my last post number 52...
RAF Wattisham Phil RAF left in the early 90's now an army base.
		
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They should get a job at Mc Donald's,it pays better with less risk :thup:


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			what help do they get? Sweet FA, its a risky job but they get on with it
		
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You need to speak to your union brother


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			They should get a job at Mc Donald's,it pays better with less risk :thup:
		
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They like the risk but dont expect any sympathy its part and parcel of the job,they choose to do it and know the risks.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			All the people who are critical of me on here can you respond to my last post number 52...
RAF Wattisham Phil RAF left in the early 90's now an army base.
		
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I know I have spent many months there doing exercises with the Jags there and was accommodated in 4 man rooms with holes in the wall.

Was taken over by the army for the Army Air Corp with the apache helicopter alongside the US Airforce and 22 Sqn and was given a refit from the defence budget and funding from the US. Also has a facility there for combat stress victims - funded by H4H

The place is not a nice place and the single blocks there are awful and the majority of the quarters are awful


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## upsidedown (Jun 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A bit of bullying going on here folks.
I get Shivas's point and, as I said, it's a numbers thing.
Anyone know how much the Poppy appeal raises anually?
Anyone know how many UK injured service men and women need care in 2014 compared to 1980.

I know the H4H thing came about because of a shameful lack of government funding to look after our injured troops.
At the same time our troops were given poor quality armour and equipment. 
I fully support H4H, but think that as a duty of care it should be funded by the taxpayer and not a charity.

BTW there are many UK workers who put their lives on the line to protect and serve the public.
Miners, Police, NHS staff. Social workers and Doormen for starters.
		
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List of top charities by donation from 2012 H4H mid 50's

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/apr/24/top-1000-charities-donations-britain


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			They like the risk but dont expect any sympathy, they choose to do it.
		
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When has anyone in the military ever expected sympathy 

You are taking about security in the private sector - protecting the rich and famous etc or possibly going out to afghan and earning double tax free compared to a private


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know I have spent many months there doing exercises with the Jags there and was accommodated in 4 man rooms with holes in the wall.

Was taken over by the army for the Army Air Corp with the apache helicopter alongside the US Airforce and 22 Sqn and was given a refit from the defence budget and funding from the US. Also has a facility there for combat stress victims - funded by H4H

The place is not a nice place and the single blocks there are awful and the majority of the quarters are awful
		
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Still I dont agree on your opinion of the quarters, theres an estate thats only 20 yrs old there that house many servicemen and the old accomodation isnt sub standard by any means.


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## DCB (Jun 4, 2014)

Having recently spent time in a major rehab unit, I say these people deserve all the help and assistance they can get, whether it is from government funded sources or fro charity sources.

I couldn't do it, but, I'm so gratefu,ll that they did do it and as a consequence, at considerable cost to many of them.

Sorry but the OP is so far of beam here and subsequent posts have just proved that.

A new low for the forum.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Still I dont agree on your opinion of the quarters, theres an estate thats only 20 yrs old there that house many servicemen and the old accomodation isnt sub standard by any means.
		
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Have you been inside one?


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 4, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			List of top charities by donation from 2012 H4H mid 50's

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/apr/24/top-1000-charities-donations-britain

Click to expand...

Thank you.

Â£66m from RBL......that's quite a lot of money compared to Â£11m for my main support charity Breakthrough Breast Cancer when you consider the numbers affected.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Still I dont agree on your opinion of the quarters, theres an estate thats only 20 yrs old there that house many servicemen and the old accomodation isnt sub standard by any means.
		
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I know you don't agree. 

It's par for the course 

At least I have comfort that you are extremely wrong and it appears a disgrace opinion like yours is very much a minority


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When has anyone in the military ever expected sympathy 

You are taking about security in the private sector - protecting the rich and famous etc or possibly going out to afghan and earning double tax free compared to a private
		
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No I'm talking about Security Guarding premises, nighclub door work,building sites, holiday parks,all general security work.. not private, so your opinion on post 52 then Phil??


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## DCB (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			No I'm talking about Security Guarding premises, nighclub door work,building sites, holiday parks,all general security work.. not private, so your opinion on post 52 then Phil??
		
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Think he gave you the answer in post 54.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			No I'm talking about Security Guarding premises, nighclub door work,building sites, holiday parks,all general security work.. not private, so your opinion on post 52 then Phil??
		
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I posted my opinion already 

You really want to compare the work of a bouncer or a building security guard to that of someone serving the country ?!? 

Many jobs have risks with them - start a charity for bouncers.

So you are unhappy because people that put their lives on line for country get charity support 

Where as the guy that throws out drunk people or stops people breaking into a building don't get charity support !!! 

You astound me - you really do


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

hovis said:



			Have you been inside one?
		
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Yes lived inside one for 9 years as my father was on 56 phantom sqd in the 70's and 80's on the base, he was reposted to the same sqd because my sister married and settled locally enabling him to do so,  after 38 years service and leaving as a warrant officer at 54 it was very difficult for him but he got no help, he got another lesser job and just got on with it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Yes lived inside one for 9 years as my father was on 56 phantom sqd in the 70's and 80's on the base, he was reposted to the same sqd because my sister married and settled locally enabling him to do so,  after 38 years service and leaving as a warrant officer at 54 it was very difficult for him but he got no help, he got another lesser job and just got on with it.
		
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How about in the last 30 years since then

The world is different from the 80's - the threat is different from the 80's 

Did your Dad ask for help ? My dad left in 91 and had no issues.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I posted my opinion already 

You really want to compare the work of a bouncer or a building security guard to that of someone serving the country ?!? 

Many jobs have risks with them - start a charity for bouncers.

So you are unhappy because people that put their lives on line for country get charity support 

Where as the guy that throws out drunk people or stops people breaking into a building don't get charity support !!! 

You astound me - you really do
		
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All I'm saying is they are both jobs that carry risk but in security (and other jobs for that matter)theres no charitable help for those injured, why should people make such a big deal of it with the military? Its wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			All I'm saying is they are both jobs that carry risk but in security (and other jobs for that matter)theres no charitable help for those injured, why should people make such a big deal of it with the military? Its wrong.
		
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Can you really not see the difference ? 

And how is making a big deal 

Making people are showing their appreciation for people who put their lives on the line for the country 

I ll say it again - putting their lives on the line for the country. 

You must be on a wind up surely ?!


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## rosecott (Jun 4, 2014)

Why is there no zero stars rating for threads?


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## Hobbit (Jun 4, 2014)

A bouncer on the door at the local night club = a soldier serving in Afghan?! A bouncer defending the door of a private business = a soldier defending a way of life/country/democracy?!

Ok, what's she put in your tea tonight?


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## karlcole (Jun 4, 2014)

As a serving soldier fresh back from my 3rd tour and 2nd of Afghanistan i cant actually believe im reading what the OP has posted!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 4, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			A bouncer on the door at the local night club = a soldier serving in Afghan?! A bouncer defending the door of a private business = a soldier defending a way of life/country/democracy?!

Ok, what's she put in your tea tonight?
		
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Perhaps you should talk to some Aldershot/Guildford doormen and ask what group puts them at risk.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Perhaps you should talk to some Aldershot/Guildford doormen and ask what group puts them at risk.
		
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What do you mean by that comment ?


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

Knob


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## karlcole (Jun 4, 2014)

Fish said:



			Knob
		
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:thup:This


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## Doon frae Troon (Jun 4, 2014)

Just checked out how the RBL spend the Â£66m.they raise.
Quite impressive and gave me a bit of a lift as I have always thought of them being a bit amateurish.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 4, 2014)

Im only going to post one comment on this thread.
Im shocked how low some people will stoop to.
What even goes through someones head to post something that he knows would cause controversy.
Liverpool Phil I commend you for staying so cool,as I don't think I could be so calm if I had 
served in the military.
There are a lot of us that support HFH on here with a meet every year,it gets bigger and better every year.
And long may it continue.
As someone has already said,its an all time low for the forum.


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## pokerjoke (Jun 4, 2014)

karlcole said:



			As a serving soldier fresh back from my 3rd tour and 2nd of Afghanistan i cant actually believe im reading what the OP has posted!!
		
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I commend you,you do a fantastic job for this country.:clap::thup:
2 posts


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you really not see the difference ? 

And how is making a big deal 

Making people are showing their appreciation for people who put their lives on the line for the country 

I ll say it again - putting their lives on the line for the country. 

You must be on a wind up surely ?!
		
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Again Phil I'll say it again this is an ex servicemans obvious reaction to my post which is bound to be military biased, but its not necesarily right.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Again Phil I'll say it again this is an ex servicemans obvious reaction to my post which is bound to be military biased, but its not necesarily right.
		
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It has nothing to do with bias 

Other people have said it to you also 

One is a person protecting a pub and throwing out people too drunk 


The other is protecting you and your country allow you to type your utter tripe 

Do you honestly believe a bouncer needs a charity to look after him because of the trauma of stopping people getting into a pub 

Are you drunk ? On drugs ? On a wind up or you are that narrow minded you really can't see the clear difference between a bouncer and a solider serving for his country


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## AmandaJR (Jun 4, 2014)

If you feel so strongly that there is a group of vulnerable/at risk people NOT getting the support they should then do something about it. Don't go bleating about how unfair it is with a "look what they get...how unfair is that...we get nothing" etc etc. Hardly a charitable reaction.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Perhaps you should talk to some Aldershot/Guildford doormen and ask what group puts them at risk.
		
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Good post, doormen in Colchester where theres an army garrison have told me of situations where army guys have caused GBH to somebody for the garrison MP's to pick up the offender with the cooperation of the Police and smooth over the situation where as a civvy who does the same is charged.
The military is favored in that situation and others, why?


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It has nothing to do with bias 

Other people have said it to you also 

One is a person protecting a pub and throwing out people too drunk 


The other is protecting you and your country allow you to type your utter tripe 

Do you honestly believe a bouncer needs a charity to look after him because of the trauma of stopping people getting into a pub 

Are you drunk ? On drugs ? On a wind up or you are that narrow minded you really can't see the clear difference between a bouncer and a solider serving for his country
		
Click to expand...

People support it cos its very PC to do so nowdays and they want others to think they are doing the right thing.


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## AmandaJR (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Good post, doormen in Colchester where theres an army garrison have told me of situations where army guys have caused GBH to somebody for the garrison MP's to pick up the offender with the cooperation of the Police and smooth over the situation where as a civvy who does the same is charged.
The military is favored in that situation and others, why?
		
Click to expand...

Now I KNOW you're talking through your rear end. My nephew got in a fight in a bar a week back from Afghanistan and is now serving a prison sentence of 32 months. First offence, never been in trouble - too much drink and a civilian looking for a fight with a squaddy - my nephew was the one who obliged. The civvy police had nothing on him but the MP's pursued the case...


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			If you feel so strongly that there is a group of vulnerable/at risk people NOT getting the support they should then do something about it. Don't go bleating about how unfair it is with a "look what they get...how unfair is that...we get nothing" etc etc. Hardly a charitable reaction.
		
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I'm making a generalisation that many people in many trades get injured but dont get help not just security workers, be nice if the public supported everybody, why just soldiers?


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Now I KNOW you're talking through your rear end. My nephew got in a fight in a bar a week back from Afghanistan and is now serving a prison sentence of 32 months. First offence, never been in trouble - too much drink and a civilian looking for a fight with a squaddy - my nephew was the one who obliged. The civvy police had nothing on him but the MP's pursued the case...
		
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Thats rare in this area I can assure you.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Good post, doormen in Colchester where theres an army garrison have told me of situations where army guys have caused GBH to somebody for the garrison MP's to pick up the offender with the cooperation of the Police and smooth over the situation where as a civvy who does the same is charged.
The military is favored in that situation and others, why?
		
Click to expand...


It appears your level of talking utter fecking nonsense is unlimited 

You just can't stop making up rubbish


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## Rumpokid (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Nowdays there seems to be a lot of military charities around and I just wondered what peoples opinions of them are, personally I think its a persons choice to join up but in doing so they must accept the consequences and outcome associated with that desicion which may include permanent injury.My father was in the RAF for 38 years and we had a good life on it as do the military personnel on an Army base I live near, they benefit from subsidised housing no council tax and and a comfortable life being in the military, theres plenty on new cars parked up on the married quarters and its a world away from the poverty many endure on civvy street.My problem is this, these people have a good life in the military but when things go wrong they expect help when it was their choice to take an occupation with the obvious risks, there were many soldiers in the 1st and 2nd world wars who didnt live a great military life and when injured in battle just got on with it when they returned to civilian life they were soldiers.As ive said you take the risk you get on with it and should you expect the publics help?,ok somebodys got to defend the country but its part and parcel of that job that there could be dire consequences and thats the risk you take signing up, their soldiers they go into battle thats the profession and the chosen risk they have taken in life.I personally would prefer to see peoples charity donations go to the homeless,children who need it or the rspca, opinions guys?
		
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Contravertional to some..But i do agree with a lot of what you say.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			People support it cos its very PC to do so nowdays and they want others to think they are doing the right thing.
		
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You do realise you are insulting every single person on here who supports the H4H 


They do it because they are proud of our force and they do it because our government doesn't 


Can I ask you now to stop this nonsense or pop along to Wattisham and go and see some people going through rehab that have lost a limb and then spout your nonsense to him


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Contravertional to some..But i do agree with a lot of what you say.
		
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Thankyou,nice to see others have an opinion on this and dont just dismiss it as "rubbish".


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## AmandaJR (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			I'm making a generalisation that many people in many trades get injured but dont get help not just security workers, be nice if the public supported everybody, why just soldiers?
		
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Because the public rightly feel the military are fighting on behalf of them. Putting their lives at risk on behalf of them and getting killed and maimed on behalf of them. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of a conflict they unflichingly go into it with world renowned and envied professionalism and bravery.

It is so different to the professions you refer to but it is clear you can't see that and will continue to swim upstream against the tide!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Contravertional to some..But i do agree with a lot of what you say.
		
Click to expand...


Then there is two 


You can give your reasons if you want and tell us your own experience in regards military charities to help you form this opinion


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			I'm making a generalisation that many people in many trades get injured but dont get help not just security workers, be nice if the public supported everybody, why just soldiers?
		
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Because these people are protecting the public and the public are showing their support 

Do you really not understand that ?!?


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You do realise you are insulting every single person on here who supports the H4H 


They do it because they are proud of our force and they do it because our government doesn't 


Can I ask you now to stop this nonsense or pop along to Wattisham and go and see some people going through rehab that have lost a limb and then spout your nonsense to him
		
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Why I can go to a local hospital and see people going through rehab who have had accidents, again your opinion is military biased.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Thankyou,nice to see others have an opinion on this and dont just dismiss it as "rubbish".
		
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Many have an opinion on this - you have dismissed them all because they disagree with you.

Please go and see a serviceman who has lost limbs or a family who has lost their son fighting to give you the freedom to sit there and dare critisize the fact that the rest of the public have seen fit to look after their soldiers and tell them to "Man up" and stop taking charity.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

AmandaJR said:



			Because the public rightly feel the military are fighting on behalf of them. Putting their lives at risk on behalf of them and getting killed and maimed on behalf of them. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of a conflict they unflichingly go into it with world renowned and envied professionalism and bravery.

It is so different to the professions you refer to but it is clear you can't see that and will continue to swim upstream against the tide!
		
Click to expand...

See my first post, its their choice to sign up.


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## Hobbit (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Good post, doormen in Colchester where theres an army garrison have told me of situations where army guys have caused GBH to somebody for the garrison MP's to pick up the offender with the cooperation of the Police and smooth over the situation where as a civvy who does the same is charged.
The military is favored in that situation and others, why?
		
Click to expand...

Darlington is the nearest big town to Catterick. I've seen local lads out looking for squaddies just so they can show how big they are for giving a squaddie a good kicking. 

But if its squaddies always causing trouble, every town that isn't a garrison town obviously doesn't need doormen!

Anyway, if the vast majority agreed with your point of view just how would this thread read - in other words, you're talking rollox


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

Upgraded from a knob to a cock, and a big crowing one also that needs its neck wringing


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Why I can go to a local hospital and see people going through rehab who have had accidents, again your opinion is military biased.
		
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Those people haven't got injured protected your thick skull 

People do have accidents yes - they get the care they need from the government 

Military people have been injured in conflict - the difference is as clear as day and either you deliberately don't want to see or you are too too dense to see it.

Your father must be ashamed of you - I would be


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## AmandaJR (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm out - this is making my blood boil. I'll let Phil try and reason with the OP (good luck Phil) and Fish to put what all but one other thinks - in a very appropriate and succinct manner might I add!


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## ger147 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Thats rare in this area I can assure you.
		
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It's not rare at all, you're a liar.


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## bozza (Jun 4, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Darlington is the nearest big town to Catterick. I've seen local lads out looking for squaddies just so they can show how big they are for giving a squaddie a good kicking. 

But if its squaddies always causing trouble, every town that isn't a garrison town obviously doesn't need doormen!

Anyway, if the vast majority agreed with your point of view just how would this thread read - in other words, you're talking rollox
		
Click to expand...

I agree this is true as I live in Darlington and used to be out in town every weekend but they are both just as bad as each other from my experiences. 

Many a time I've seen squaddies smashed by 6pm and going around in groups looking to start trouble. 

As for the charity thing I rarely give to any charities, just selected ones,  especially when some have people working for them that earn a lot more than i do for sweating my gonads off in a factory all week to just get by.


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## chris661 (Jun 4, 2014)

This is obviously an area that is close to a lot of people. I understand that emotions can run high in regard to this topic however please remember the rules of the forum when you post. 

Thanks.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Many jobs have risks with them - start a charity for bouncers.
		
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Post of the week!  

Do i find myself warming to phil? Think i need to sleep on it:lol:


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 4, 2014)

I disagree vehemently with the OP. However I am also fickle with what I support. I give to Cancer Research via DD as I lost both parent to cancer and known others with the illness. Other than that the only other one I will give to is H4H, not because I have any attachment other than knowing people who had fought in the Falklands, Gulf, Bosnia and Afghanistan, but because those injured in the line of duty are not cared for by a government who frankly don't give a monkey's about the front line troops. As long as the balance sheet matches and we are seen to be a presence to hell with the who and how.


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## GB72 (Jun 4, 2014)

I am only going to make one post on this as I really am shocked by this thread. I have grown up around our armed forces, went to school with their kids, work with their families and am honoured to call many active servicemen my friends. I wish I had one ounce of the dedication and courage to do the job they do but when my mates were signing up I went to uni. If I can give up my time and money to help in any small way then I will do it willingly and without hesitation.

I have always put my time into the forum h4h event despite not being ex forces and I have never really said why. The reason is that I got a call on a Sunday morning just about the time Rick was arranging the second one. It was my boss calling to tell me that my secretary had lost her husband in Afghanistan the week before she gave birth to their first child. If something like that does not kick you into action to do all that you can to help the brave men and women that serve this country and to support them and their families in times of need then there is no hope for some people.


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## Rumpokid (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Then there is two 


You can give your reasons if you want and tell us your own experience in regards military charities to help you form this opinion
		
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Then there is  two..What this a witch hunt...Firstly, i do not have to justify my post to you.
Secondly, i  agreed with a LOT of OP's points, but NOT ALL...Trying to make this easy for you.
I have a son who is bound for the Army.I have 20 years, of working with armed forces,both UK and US.
It is the politicians you should be ranting at for dragging our serviceman to such ill thought out wars.
Emotive subject.Yes,,But some of the comments on here are uncalled for.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			Then there is  two..What this a witch hunt...Firstly, i do not have to justify my post to you.
Secondly, i  agreed with a LOT of OP's points, but NOT ALL...Trying to make this easy for you.
I have a son who is bound for the Army.I have 20 years, of working with armed forces,both UK and US.
It is the politicians you should be ranting at for dragging our serviceman to such ill thought out wars.
Emotive subject.Yes,,But some of the comments on here are uncalled for.
		
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So which comments do you agree with seeing as the OP is basically saying that the military shouldn't get charity because they have such a wonderful life in their cheap houses without council tax and if anything does go wrong I believe his words were - man up.

The reasons for the conflicts etc are something i will ever go into - what I do know is the people in the forces are fighting for freedom and protecting our country from people who wish to do harm. Those people put their lives on the line for us to be able to live our lives without fear. 

The government isn't going to look after them but thankfully the general public ( bar the odd one ) do look after our own. 

I hope your son stays safe in the army and god forbid he never ever needs the help of the military charities but if he did they would be there for you regardless


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## NWJocko (Jun 4, 2014)

Trying to keep out of the emotive arguments due to family connection but....

Shivas, this reads as if you are bitter about what the forces have because they made a choice to do what they do and should have appreciated that when signing up, yes?

However, you also made a choice to do what you do, with all the pros and cons which has given you, in your opinion, a lesser lifestyle, yes?

Why didn't you join the military?


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## Birchy (Jun 4, 2014)

Im not sure if iam missing something here or i am just being thick. 

Is somebody trying to begrudge people handouts who have their arms and legs blown off risking their lives serving our country? 

Or is this one big joke? :mmm:


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## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Again Phil I'll say it again this is an ex servicemans obvious reaction to my post which is bound to be military biased, but its not necesarily right.
		
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Except that many people who aren't military based have repeated his sentiment. I've known ex doorman and ex soldiers and trust me, their "was stories" bare no comparison. 
I don't personally support h4h, have nothing against it, simply have more personal charities I support. 

Whilst they do choose do the job and I may not necessarily give them a pat on the back for doing it, people in most work places have better support than these guys get. 

For someone to to object to them getting support because poor old doormen may get injured is quite simply laughable!


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

Rumpokid said:



			...
It is the politicians you should be ranting at for dragging our serviceman to such ill thought out wars.
		
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While I agree that Politicians have a lot to answer for, both in terms of misguided entry into wars and ,more particularly and on topic, the consequences of their decisions on the participants, this topic is about Military Charities, not War per se!

And, apart from one (that only lasted 6 days), I don't believe there has been such a thing as a 'well thought out' war - at least not in the last 100 years!


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## USER1999 (Jun 4, 2014)

For me, I support the charities I support. I don't whine about others supporting other charities. I can't see the point. There are loads of deserving charities, and not enough people willing to support them, either through fund raising, or donations. I can't see the point of a post denigrating people who support a charity. They have made a choice to support it, that's it. If you don't want to, don't, give your time and money to someone else!


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## Old Skier (Jun 4, 2014)

This has got to be a big wind up. The OP and one or two others have not published one substantiated fact and managed to get the response they seems to crave for.

A few small items of fact,

Most Chelsea Pensioners have seen active service although these days NI is considered a non PC area to give anyone any credit for.

Members of the forces do pay council tax when living in UK

H4H does not assist with the welfare or support of those service personnel who require help if they left the forces prior to 2001 and are mostly involved in capital projects with major support from other military charities.

Most single and bean stealer accom is now quite a bit more than a room with a sink in the corner and is not shared - this does not include accom in operational theatres.

Most pad accom is of a poor standard.

The RAF will not go on Exercise unless there is suitable 4* hotel accom available. 

That is all.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Jun 4, 2014)

Possibly the worst thread I have seen in my year on the forum.

Shivas you are so so so wrong it's untrue. Just read the whole thread and you are clearly talking out of your backside today.


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## Old Skier (Jun 4, 2014)

I would also like to point out that very little of what the major military charities deal with (outside of H4H) has anything to do with service personnel with missing limbs. I suggest a read of SSAFA and TRBL web sites and it may open some doubters eyes as to what they are actively involved in.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Trying to keep out of the emotive arguments due to family connection but....

Shivas, this reads as if you are bitter about what the forces have because they made a choice to do what they do and should have appreciated that when signing up, yes?

However, you also made a choice to do what you do, with all the pros and cons which has given you, in your opinion, a lesser lifestyle, yes?

Why didn't you join the military?
		
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Didnt join up because in my opinion military people in time become very institutionalized and basically brainwashed to the cause,but have worked for the MOD and the USAF.I do actually work with a lot of ex military guys in security who ive discussed this with who can see my point now they are civvys, and met many ex servicemen who simply couldnt cope in civvy street after being reprogrammed by the military.This is my opinion and you can keep your narrow minded insults to yourself I'm sticking to it.


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## NWJocko (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Didnt join up because in my opinion military people in time become very institutionalized and basically brainwashed to the cause,but have worked for the MOD and the USAF.I do actually work with a lot of ex military guys in security who ive discussed this with who can see my point now they are civvys, and met many ex servicemen who simply couldnt cope in civvy street after being reprogrammed by the military.This is my opinion and you can keep your narrow minded insults to yourself I'm sticking to it.
		
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Where have I made "narrow minded insults"!? 

I haven't even made an insult!


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## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Didnt join up because in my opinion military people in time become very institutionalized and basically brainwashed to the cause,but have worked for the MOD and the USAF.I do actually work with a lot of ex military guys in security who ive discussed this with who can see my point now they are civvys, and met many ex servicemen who simply couldnt cope in civvy street after being reprogrammed by the military.*This is my opinion and you can keep your narrow minded insults to yourself I'm sticking to it.*

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I would suggest you followed likewise matey.


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Other than that the only other one I will give to is H4H, not because I have any attachment other than knowing people who had fought in the Falklands, Gulf, Bosnia and Afghanistan, but because those injured in the line of duty are not cared for by a government who frankly don't give a monkey's about the front line troops..
		
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Help for Heroes doesn't support (recognise) any injured servicemen pre September 2001, if you want to support everyone without choice, then The British legion should be supported more or at least equally. 

This is a good piece from Simon Weston who feared for funds going to more 'glamorous' charities. 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/simon-weston-fears-help-heroes-1848633

I fully support H4H's but equally support The British Legion who unfortunately have become second fiddle to H4H's and have as many if not more conflicts and wounded servicemen whether physically or mentally to look after going back decades.  

I've served and been on active service many times between 77-96, lost many friends both fully (KIA) and through illnesses due to intense stress where some took their own lives or became unrecognisable and left the forces to just fade away without much if any support at that time.

I'm disgusted with the OP's views and opinions but as I'm a civilised individual (sometimes), I have to accept that others have different opinions however warped and I truly never wish to meet him or converse with him (the OP) at any time now or in the future.

Unsubscribed as I'm angry!


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## Old Skier (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Didnt join up because in my opinion military people in time become very institutionalized and basically brainwashed to the cause,but have worked for the MOD and the USAF.I do actually work with a lot of ex military guys in security who ive discussed this with who can see my point now they are civvys, and met many ex servicemen who simply couldnt cope in civvy street after being reprogrammed by the military.This is my opinion and you can keep your narrow minded insults to yourself I'm sticking to it.
		
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It appears you have a very small and it appears very sad bunch of workmates. Your sounding like a bouncer who might have been bounced. You work in security or are you really a doorman who is building it up a little.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

Ok, lets take it away from the military.  a fireman was in a house fire searching for a family when there was a gas explosion upstairs just as he was stood on the landing doorway.  The door closing in his face with extreme force smashed his breathing apparatus mask and ruptured his eye socket, his fall back down the stairs broke his back.  the fire service only pay 6 months sick and then reduced pay.
My question is, should he have stomached the Â£800 a month pay reduction as it was his choice to join and he knew the risks or ask for help from a charity called "the fire fighters charity"  he wasnt chucking drunks out of a club he was trying to save a family's life


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Didnt join up because in my opinion military people in time become very institutionalized and basically brainwashed to the cause,but have worked for the MOD and the USAF.I do actually work with a lot of ex military guys in security who ive discussed this with who can see my point now they are civvys, and met many ex servicemen who simply couldnt cope in civvy street after being reprogrammed by the military.This is my opinion and you can keep your narrow minded insults to yourself I'm sticking to it.
		
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Yep your dad would be proud to read such tripe. 

Again you insult the very same people that allow you to have such freedom of speech - you should remember that.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

Fish said:



			Help for Heroes doesn't support (recognise) any injured servicemen pre September 2001, if you want to support everyone without choice, then The British legion should be supported more or at least equally. 

This is a good piece from Simon Weston who feared for funds going to more 'glamorous' charities. 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/simon-weston-fears-help-heroes-1848633

I fully support H4H's but equally support The British Legion who unfortunately have become second fiddle to H4H's and have as many if not more conflicts and wounded servicemen whether physically or mentally to look after going back decades.  

I've served and been on active service many times between 77-96, lost many friends both fully (KIA) and through illnesses due to intense stress where some took their own lives or became unrecognisable and left the forces to just fade away without much if any support at that time.

I'm disgusted with the OP's views and opinions but as I'm a civilised individual (sometimes), I have to accept that others have different opinions however warped and I truly never wish to meet him or converse with him (the OP) at any time now or in the future.

Unsubscribed as I'm angry!
		
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Great post Robin 

Well said


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			Members of the forces do pay council tax when living in UK
		
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Exemption Category O applies to MoD properties that are for armed forces accommodation.

MoD make a contribution in lieu of C/T. Whether that is (partially) recovered from the inhabitants, I don't know (I suspect it's 'bundled' in the accommodation charge). 

Members of the forces even pay (at least in some areas) when they are on duty overseas, though they get a payment from MoD to, supposedly, compensate.



Old Skier said:



			The RAF will not go on Exercise unless there is suitable 4* hotel accom available.
		
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:rofl:


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## Old Skier (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Great post Robin 

Well said
		
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As a caseworker for TRBL and SSAFA I can see where this one could go.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 4, 2014)

Fish said:



			Help for Heroes doesn't support (recognise) any injured servicemen pre September 2001
		
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I was aware of that. My point being I have no connection to anything military other than being friends with those that were there and can tell me what war does. I support H4H more as an ongoing process, which isn't demeaning anything those injured before 2001 did for this country.


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## DCB (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Why I can go to a local hospital and see people going through rehab who have had accidents, again your opinion is military biased.
		
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From a non military point of view, my rehab after an accident was excellent, taught to be self sufficient, to wash myself, to dress myself, to feed myself at the table and eventually to walk again on my own two feet.

How much harder is it to do those simple things without a lower arm and hand or without your lower leg, or without your leg. Add to that the trauma of a brutal injury and the psychological effects of those injuries. 

The two just do not match up. I know that from personal experience so don't come on here trying to make out it's the same thing. It is not.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

DCB said:



			From a non military point of view, my rehab after an accident was excellent, taught to be self sufficient, to wash myself, to dress myself, to feed myself at the table and eventually to walk again on my own two feet.

How much harder is it to do those simple things without a lower arm and hand or without your lower leg, or without your leg. Add to that the trauma of a brutal injury and the psychological effects of those injuries. 

The two just do not match up. I know that from personal experience so don't come on here trying to make out it's the same thing. It is not.
		
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Theres obviously people in rehab with the same conditions you mention.


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## Old Skier (Jun 4, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I was aware of that.
		
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I am truly amazed by that Homer. It is not a well publicised fact.


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

Old Skier said:



			As a caseworker for TRBL and SSAFA I can see where this one could go.
		
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You could quite likely be able to confirm how much these charities were involved (indeed created) post WW1 and 2 to refute the following too!



shivas irons said:



			......and I'll add the men and the woman in the 1st and 2nd world wars had no choice in the matter but got on with life afterwards, some affected yes but they lived without the need for charity.
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Theres obviously people in rehab with the same conditions you mention.
		
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You have totally missed his point as you have done throughout the thread 

Did you attempt to join up but got turned down ?

You are the most bitter blinkered clueless person I have seen - I actually feel pity for you and your views.

You clearly have no clue about reality


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You have totally missed his point as you have done throughout the thread 

Did you attempt to join up but got turned down ?

You are the most bitter blinkered clueless person I have seen - I actually feel pity for you and your views.

You clearly have no clue about reality
		
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Last time cos I'm fed up with your daft insults, THIS IS YOUR MILITARY BIASED OPINION and not the general concensus of everybody.
It always amuses me how some people who leave the military think there still in it, why did you leave lol?


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## c1973 (Jun 4, 2014)

Have to say, I wasn't aware that H4H didn't recognise ex service men injured before a certain date. If true, I'm not sure how I feel about that, always thought it was like the poppy appeal and supported all regardless of when they served.

I'm not knocking the help they do give though.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Last time cos I'm fed up with your daft insults, THIS IS YOUR MILITARY BIASED OPINION and not the general concensus of everybody.
It always amuses me how some people who leave the military think there still in it, why did you leave lol?
		
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Do you self a favour phil, give it up buddy:temper:


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

So when someone like Aron loses his leg whilst on tour of duty and has his disability allowance stopped as he deemed 'not disabled enough', he should just 'Man Up' and get on with it should he?


http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/can-we-help/eligibility-for-support/case-studies/aron-shelton

As for the non-factual pathetic statement of "_...and I'll add the men and the woman in the 1st and 2nd world wars had no choice in the matter but got on with life afterwards, some affected yes but they lived without the need for charity."_ well, I wonder why the British Legion was formed in 1921? The dates a clue, you ignorant fool!


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## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Last time cos I'm fed up with your daft insults, THIS IS YOUR MILITARY BIASED OPINION and not the general concensus of everybody.
It always amuses me how some people who leave the military think there still in it, why did you leave lol?
		
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you really are thick as pig........

the he general consensus is you're talking cods wallop. Two maybe three have shown you slight support the rest 20 people are againt you. Opinion aside, learn the basics on a consensus before trying to us it to your advantage.


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Have to say, I wasn't aware that H4H didn't recognise ex service men injured before a certain date. If true, I'm not sure how I feel about that, always thought it was like the poppy appeal and supported all regardless of when they served.

I'm not knocking the help they do give though.
		
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H4H's does a great job but I am saddened that they don't advertise and openly state the fact they don't support pre 2001 (September), I am sure there are a lot of people who bequest money to them not knowing that who were vets or were family of vets pre that date, I don't think it would harm H4H's to be more open about their policy, after-all, its not a competition, the funds would still go to servicemen & women in need whether its through H4H's or the British Legion.


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## guest100718 (Jun 4, 2014)

Is there a sweepstake on how many pages this gets to.......


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## rosecott (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Last time cos I'm fed up with your daft insults, THIS IS YOUR MILITARY BIASED OPINION and not the general concensus of everybody.
It always amuses me how some people who leave the military think there still in it, why did you leave lol?
		
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Do you really and truly think that every opinion expressed which is contrary to yours is a "MILITARY BIASED OPINION"? If so, your argument is even flimsier than can be believed.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			Have to say, I wasn't aware that H4H didn't recognise ex service men injured before a certain date. If true, I'm not sure how I feel about that, always thought it was like the poppy appeal and supported all regardless of when they served.

I'm not knocking the help they do give though.
		
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A mate of mine was in the Paras and got seriously injured in a firefight in the first Gulf war conflict, he had no help from charities and just got on with it living with his condition which affects him to this day, is that right in you guys opinion?  Should the military charities have left him? You claim they are all this and that but how many soldiers pre 2001 have just had to get on with it and have done so, his a tough guy and got through it himself and has no regrets of what happened to him, part and parcel of the job he says, oh and his wife didnt have to sing in a choir...


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## richart (Jun 4, 2014)

Having visited Tedworth House in Tidworth, and seen in person what the H4H charity has done for so many brave men and women, I just hope that none of these heroes ever come across this thread. I have found certain comments, including the opening one, very hard to read, but personally  I am heartened by the staunch support of so many forumers for 'military charities'.

I will certainly not be commenting further on this thread, so please do not bother replying if you have difficulty accepting my comments.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

rosecott said:



			Do you really and truly think that every opinion expressed which is contrary to yours is a "MILITARY BIASED OPINION"? If so, your argument is even flimsier than can be believed.
		
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No dont put words in my mouth, I'm saying Liverpoolphils opinion is this......
Can I ask what you did in the RAF Phil and why you left as the military was obviously your world.


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## hovis (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			A mate of mine was in the Paras and got seriously injured in a firefight in the first Gulf war conflict, he had no help from charities and just got on with it living with his condition which affects him to this day, is that right in you guys opinion?  Should the military charities have left him? You claim they are all this and that but how many soldiers pre 2001 have just had to get on with it and have done so, his a tough guy and got through it himself and has no regrets of what happened to him, part and parcel of the job he says, oh and his wife didnt have to sing in a choir...
		
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You should really stop now matey


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			A mate of mine was in the Paras and got seriously injured in a firefight in the first Gulf war conflict, he had no help from charities and just got on with it living with his condition which affects him to this day, is that right in you guys opinion?  Should the military charities have left him? You claim they are all this and that but *how many soldiers pre 2001 have just had to get on with it and have done so*, his a tough guy and got through it himself and has no regrets of what happened to him, part and parcel of the job he says, oh and his wife didnt have to sing in a choir...
		
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I don't know, you tell us, you seem to know so many facts (loose term) and yet IMO you know nothing as the British Legion and many other charities would have looked out for the welfare of your friend, as an ex-Para (Pathfinder) for 6 years before I was attached to 42 Commando under 3 Commando Brigade for a further 7 years, no Para is ever left to his own devises when leaving the service injured, now that is a fact so were not hearing all the story from your friends side?


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## srixon 1 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Nowdays there seems to be a lot of military charities around and I just wondered what peoples opinions of them are, personally I think its a persons choice to join up but in doing so they must accept the consequences and outcome associated with that desicion which may include permanent injury.My father was in the RAF for 38 years and we had a good life on it as do the military personnel on an Army base I live near, they benefit from subsidised housing no council tax and and a comfortable life being in the military, theres plenty on new cars parked up on the married quarters and its a world away from the poverty many endure on civvy street.My problem is this, these people have a good life in the military but when things go wrong they expect help when it was their choice to take an occupation with the obvious risks, there were many soldiers in the 1st and 2nd world wars who didnt live a great military life and when injured in battle just got on with it when they returned to civilian life they were soldiers.As ive said you take the risk you get on with it and should you expect the publics help?,ok somebodys got to defend the country but its part and parcel of that job that there could be dire consequences and thats the risk you take signing up, their soldiers they go into battle thats the profession and the chosen risk they have taken in life.I personally would prefer to see peoples charity donations go to the homeless,children who need it or the rspca, opinions guys?
		
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If nobody volunteered to serve their country then we would still have national service. And that would include everybody except persons with a really important job. I spent years in the navy and believe me it is no picnic sailing through storms on a small ship.


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			No dont put words in my mouth, I'm saying Liverpoolphils opinion is this......
Can I ask what you did in the RAF Phil and why you left as the military was obviously your world.
		
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He completed 22yrs, knob!


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## rosecott (Jun 4, 2014)

I really think the mods should be considering closing this thread - more than enough has been said and nothing is going to change the OP's opinion.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Last time cos I'm fed up with your daft insults, THIS IS YOUR MILITARY BIASED OPINION and not the general concensus of everybody.
It always amuses me how some people who leave the military think there still in it, why did you leave lol?
		
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Nobody putting any words in your mouth at all matey, here you clearly state it's not the consensus and it's because he'd biased. I suggest you look up consensus in a dictionary and reassess your opinion.


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## Liverbirdie (Jun 4, 2014)

Fish said:



			H4H's does a great job but I am saddened that they don't advertise and openly state the fact they don't support pre 2001 (September), I am sure there are a lot of people who bequest money to them not knowing that who were vets or were family of vets pre that date, I don't think it would harm H4H's to be more open about their policy, after-all, its not a competition, the funds would still go to servicemen & women in need whether its through H4H's or the British Legion.
		
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Agree with that Robin, I didn't know it was date dependent either.


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

Fish said:



			He completed 22yrs, knob!
		
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Its possible to complete 38 years service in the RAF good grief


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## Fish (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Its possible to complete 38 years service in the RAF good grief 

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Why good grief, I wouldn't know that, I didn't mix, or wasn't allowed to mix with the educated crowd


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## Foxholer (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			A mate of mine was in the Paras and got seriously injured in a firefight in the first Gulf war conflict, he had no help from charities and just got on with it living with his condition which affects him to this day, is that right in you guys opinion?  Should the military charities have left him? You claim they are all this and that but how many soldiers pre 2001 have just had to get on with it and have done so, his a tough guy and got through it himself and has no regrets of what happened to him, part and parcel of the job he says, oh and his wife didnt have to sing in a choir...
		
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From your OP.


shivas irons said:



			...My problem is this, these people have a good life in the military but when things go wrong they expect help when it was their choice to take an occupation with the obvious risks...As ive said you take the risk you get on with it and should you expect the publics help?,ok somebodys got to defend the country but its part and parcel of that job that there could be dire consequences and thats the risk you take signing up, their soldiers they go into battle thats the profession and the chosen risk they have taken in life.I personally would prefer to see peoples charity donations go to the homeless,children who need it or the rspca, ...
		
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You appear to be contradicting yourself!


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## shivas irons (Jun 4, 2014)

rosecott said:



			I really think the mods should be considering closing this thread - more than enough has been said and nothing is going to change the OP's opinion.
		
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You damn right its my opinion and I'm sticking to it and you can do what you want with the thread as its going round in circles and I'm not responding anymore.


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## rosecott (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			You damn right its my opinion and I'm sticking to it and you can do what you want with the thread as its going round in circles and I'm not responding anymore.
		
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I suspect it's more linear, but then I'm sure you think that things revolve around you.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 4, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			You damn right its my opinion and I'm sticking to it and you can do what you want with the thread as its going round in circles and I'm not responding anymore.
		
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What do you call the end of a bell...........


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## chris661 (Jun 5, 2014)

Thanks for the input. Now closed as its going nowhere.


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