# President Obama grade one dick



## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2016)

Just listening to president Obama talking about the UK going to the back of the queue were it to exit the EU.

Sorry pal but you have come across as a grade one idiot You remind me of the bullying president in "Love actually".

would love Mexico or Canada start trying to dictate there laws to the USA and see there response.

MR Obama talks about the special relationship, 

He has gone right down in my estimation.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 22, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Just listening to president Obama talking about the UK going to the back of the queue were it to exit the EU.

Sorry pal but you have come across as a grade one idiot. You remind me of the bullying president in "Love actually".

would love Mexico or Canada start trying to dictate there laws to the USA and see there response.

MR Obama talks about the special relationship,. 

He has gone right down in my estimation.
		
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And if he had said the UK should leave the EU you would no doubt be praising him for his forthright opinions.

His opinion as leader of our biggest ally and the most powerful country in the world is important and, on this issue, was no secret.

Less impressive was Boris' snidey reference to Obama's Kenyan heritage. Absolutely pathetic!


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## pokerjoke (Apr 22, 2016)

I like him.

If you don't like Obama wait until its Trump or Clinton


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## chrisd (Apr 22, 2016)

What he said on the clip I saw was that the USA was negotiating a trade deal with the EU and they wouldn't be looking to do one with the U.K. anytime soon if we pulled out as the EU one was the most important- seems fair and honest to me


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## Papas1982 (Apr 22, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Just listening to president Obama talking about the UK going to the back of the queue were it to exit the EU.

Sorry pal but you have come across as a grade one idiot You remind me of the bullying president in "Love actually".

would love Mexico or Canada start trying to dictate there laws to the USA and see there response.

MR Obama talks about the special relationship, 

He has gone right down in my estimation.
		
Click to expand...

Persoanlly think he's just saying what Cameron has asked him too. Some people on the fence may now vote stay in beciase of it. Don't for one second think that us exiting would stop our special relationship.


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## MarkE (Apr 22, 2016)

Lame duck president and has been for a very long time.  No matter what your views on the eu, no US president would even consider a similar state of affairs for their own country. But it's ok if it's inflicted on us. How about they remove the mexican border control, allow free movement from central America and give them millions of dollars a week for the privilege?


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 22, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Just listening to president Obama talking about the UK going to the back of the queue were it to exit the EU.

Sorry pal but you have come across as a grade one idiot You remind me of the bullying president in "Love actually".

would love Mexico or Canada start trying to dictate there laws to the USA and see there response.

MR Obama talks about the special relationship, 

He has gone right down in my estimation.
		
Click to expand...

He is giving an opinion (not dictating laws, bit of a paranoid stretch of the imagination there) as the leader of one of the most powerful trading nations in the world and a country we do a lot of business with. Feel free to ignore it, it's just an opinion.

But if you think his opinion does not count then feel free to try again with someone like Trump or Cruz and see how amenable they are to do trade deals with non Americans. Speaking as someone that works for a company that does business in the US It is hard enough to sell stuff there now if you have not manufactured it in America.  If a Republican gets in and we exit the EU then best of luck there whining away that 'they need us as much as we need them'.  I think you'll find out pretty quickly that that ain't true.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 22, 2016)

While I agree with Obama re staying in the EU I'm not sure that what he has to say holds much weight in the overall debate. If the UK were to leave then by the time that negotiations reached an advanced stage he would no longer be in power. Both Clinton and Trump have said that they are not in favour of the TTIP agreement as they feel it would have an adverse impact on American jobs so there is no guarantee of it even going ahead. I would be more interested in the views of Clinton/Saunders and Trump/Cruz as to how they see thigs going.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 22, 2016)

He's entitled to give his opinion, you're entitled to ignore it.


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## GB72 (Apr 22, 2016)

He gave his opinion on that point in response to the exit side stating that we could enter into new trade deals straight away with the US. Severely clarified the position of the country he runs by saying that the deal would happen but the EU deal comes first.


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## SteveJay (Apr 22, 2016)

Get back on your plane.....keep your nose out of our affairs and bide your time until Donald takes over, or go home and try to convince your own electorate to see sense!!
The potential mess in the US just sums up why we shouldn't listen to an American giving us advice on voting.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 22, 2016)

Hacker he is not dictating laws but the EU are, that is why I compared Mexico to the EU. Struggling to see where the paranoia or imagination are
If giving opinions is ok, how about handing Hawaii back to well Hawaii.
However you dress it up you do not interfere with others countrys policy's. That is my gripe irrespective of whether he agrees with my opinions on in or out.
If he is so interested in giving his opinion I look forward to showing him around Shirebrook tomorrow so he can see the hardships it is causing there
We are now at the back of the queue. So much for a special relationship that now seems to suit them more than us.
Quite frankly no I don't think his opinion counts and he should of kept his gob shut. 
All of the " foreign" opinions I have heard are based upon "What they will lose and not what we will gain". 
Mr Obama falls heavily in that category.
Also Hacker, guess what, if a republican gets in. That is what the people of the USA have voted for whether you or I like it. The same as whether we vote to stay in or out of the EU.
Again Hacker the whining away " that they need us as much as we need them", eh.
If your company may struggle to trade in America, guess what nobody gave two hoots when my company went tits up when this government turned its back on its own taxpayers when it could of applied to the EU for grant aid.


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## DCB (Apr 22, 2016)

Did anyone really expect him to say any different. He's obviously looking after his own intrests,  that of the USA. If UK comes out we'll be a small fish in a big pond and noone should be surprised if we're having to scrabble about under the table for scraps rather than sitting at the table eating a nice wagyu.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 22, 2016)

Maybe geographically we'd be a small fish in a big pond but with the world's 5th (?) largest economy I don't think we'd be in as weak a position as a lot in the Remain camp would like us to believe.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 22, 2016)

It's a load of jumped up tosh and backscratching between Camo and his past sell by mate.    We and the EU don't have a free trade agreement now, so if we go it alone we wont have one then, whats the difference!  We would trade with the same conditions as we do now and the USA would still very much want to trade with us.

Dont have nightmares.


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## chippa1909 (Apr 22, 2016)

I find it funny how many of the politicians and political commentators who welcomed his comments about the Scottish referendum are now up in arms over this. &#128514;


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## SocketRocket (Apr 22, 2016)

Ah the Scottish referendum.   Lets think back to some comments from that and try to see if people have the same principles with the EU referendum.

DFT said:

"Keep swallowing the 'yes minister' line if you wish. I don't buy it.
Everything that has come out of the UK treasury is negative towards an independent Scotland, do you not question that.
There are many reports that suggest Scotland will be richer outside of the UK"

SILH said:

"Yes but surely the Scots voters have to know what a NO vote means as much as what a YES vote means. If NO means 'no change' then they should just be told that - what is so difficult about doing that. It would certainly make things clearer and perhaps easier for the BT Campaign to sell - getting rid of suspicions that are held about what might happen following a NO. These suspicions just play into the hands of the YES campaign. 

Of course the BT campaign and Westminster don't have to say a thing about life for Scotland post a NO - but by keeping schtum I don't think it helps their case - it simply fuels suspicions."


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## Sweep (Apr 22, 2016)

I have to say I was really shocked and angered when I read what Obama had said. I didn't expect him to say anything in favour of brexit, but the strength of his tone was, as far as I know, unprecedented from a foreign leader on a matter of which he is not involved.
Hopefully next time the Americans want us to lay down the lives of our servicemen in support of their wars, we will tell them to get to the back of the queue. Also hopefully, this will end once and for all the talk of a "special relationship", something that hasn't existed in decades. Remember John Kerry couldn't stop telling us that France was their oldest ally? The US trick of telling everyone they are special is something they do over and over again to help them get what they want. To our shame, we have fallen for it again and again. 
More importantly in my view, I never thought I would see the day when a British Prime Minister would stand next to a foreign leader on British soil and advocate everything the foreign leader said while he bullied and threatened the British people and told us what to do. I am naturally a conservative voter. You would have to go a long way to make me consider going against that, but I cannot forgive Mr. Cameron for this. I will never place a vote for him again. I want a PM who will stand up for Britain, not for everyone else but Britain. For me it's kind of an essential part of the job. The whole thing, the sheer politics of desperation, the cynical Downing St spin which I thought had gone with Tony Blair, is an absolute disgrace.
The one thing I would like to know from the President I used to admire is this. When we go to the back of the queue (or should I say "line") for a trade deal with America, what trade deal is he talking about? We have never had a trade deal with America. If he wants to shut out the 5th biggest economy in the world, go for it. The truth is he knows that his planned US favoured trade deal with the EU is worthless without Britain. If he was any kind of man he would admit that.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 22, 2016)

Sweep said:



			I have to say I was really shocked and angered when I read what Obama had said. I didn't expect him to say anything in favour of brexit, but the strength of his tone was, as far as I know, unprecedented from a foreign leader on a matter of which he is not involved.
Hopefully next time the Americans want us to lay down the lives of our servicemen in support of their wars, we will tell them to get to the back of the queue. Also hopefully, this will end once and for all the talk of a "special relationship", something that hasn't existed in decades. Remember John Kerry couldn't stop telling us that France was their oldest ally? The US trick of telling everyone they are special is something they do over and over again to help them get what they want. To our shame, we have fallen for it again and again. 
More importantly in my view, I never thought I would see the day when a British Prime Minister would stand next to a foreign leader on British soil and advocate everything the foreign leader said while he bullied and threatened the British people and told us what to do. I am naturally a conservative voter. You would have to go a long way to make me consider going against that, but I cannot forgive Mr. Cameron for this. I will never place a vote for him again. I want a PM who will stand up for Britain, not for everyone else but Britain. For me it's kind of an essential part of the job. The whole thing, the sheer politics of desperation, the cynical Downing St spin which I thought had gone with Tony Blair, is an absolute disgrace.
The one thing I would like to know from the President I used to admire is this. When we go to the back of the queue (or should I say "line") for a trade deal with America, what trade deal is he talking about? We have never had a trade deal with America. If he wants to shut out the 5th biggest economy in the world, go for it. The truth is he knows that his planned US favoured trade deal with the EU is worthless without Britain. If he was any kind of man he would admit that.
		
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A good post that echos my feelings towards Cameron and his weasely two faces.


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2016)

Sweep said:



			I have to say I was really shocked and angered when I read what Obama had said. I didn't expect him to say anything in favour of brexit, but the strength of his tone was, as far as I know, unprecedented from a foreign leader on a matter of which he is not involved.
Hopefully next time the Americans want us to lay down the lives of our servicemen in support of their wars, we will tell them to get to the back of the queue. Also hopefully, this will end once and for all the talk of a "special relationship", something that hasn't existed in decades. Remember John Kerry couldn't stop telling us that France was their oldest ally? The US trick of telling everyone they are special is something they do over and over again to help them get what they want. To our shame, we have fallen for it again and again. 
More importantly in my view, I never thought I would see the day when a British Prime Minister would stand next to a foreign leader on British soil and advocate everything the foreign leader said while he bullied and threatened the British people and told us what to do. I am naturally a conservative voter. You would have to go a long way to make me consider going against that, but I cannot forgive Mr. Cameron for this. I will never place a vote for him again. I want a PM who will stand up for Britain, not for everyone else but Britain. For me it's kind of an essential part of the job. The whole thing, the sheer politics of desperation, the cynical Downing St spin which I thought had gone with Tony Blair, is an absolute disgrace.
The one thing I would like to know from the President I used to admire is this. When we go to the back of the queue (or should I say "line") for a trade deal with America, what trade deal is he talking about? We have never had a trade deal with America. If he wants to shut out the 5th biggest economy in the world, go for it. The truth is he knows that his planned US favoured trade deal with the EU is worthless without Britain. If he was any kind of man he would admit that.
		
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Good post. Sadly, if the polls are to be believe, he's just totally pee'd off almost 50% of the U.K. A cynical attempt at ramping up the fear...


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 23, 2016)

I'm an in person but Obama has just given the out campaign a real boost. Patronising, condescending and belittling. Back of the queue. Is that how you treat your friends and allies?


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## Tashyboy (Apr 23, 2016)

Sweep said:



			I have to say I was really shocked and angered when I read what Obama had said. I didn't expect him to say anything in favour of brexit, but the strength of his tone was, as far as I know, unprecedented from a foreign leader on a matter of which he is not involved.
Hopefully next time the Americans want us to lay down the lives of our servicemen in support of their wars, we will tell them to get to the back of the queue. Also hopefully, this will end once and for all the talk of a "special relationship", something that hasn't existed in decades. Remember John Kerry couldn't stop telling us that France was their oldest ally? The US trick of telling everyone they are special is something they do over and over again to help them get what they want. To our shame, we have fallen for it again and again. 
More importantly in my view, I never thought I would see the day when a British Prime Minister would stand next to a foreign leader on British soil and advocate everything the foreign leader said while he bullied and threatened the British people and told us what to do. I am naturally a conservative voter. You would have to go a long way to make me consider going against that, but I cannot forgive Mr. Cameron for this. I will never place a vote for him again. I want a PM who will stand up for Britain, not for everyone else but Britain. For me it's kind of an essential part of the job. The whole thing, the sheer politics of desperation, the cynical Downing St spin which I thought had gone with Tony Blair, is an absolute disgrace.
The one thing I would like to know from the President I used to admire is this. When we go to the back of the queue (or should I say "line") for a trade deal with America, what trade deal is he talking about? We have never had a trade deal with America. If he wants to shut out the 5th biggest economy in the world, go for it. The truth is he knows that his planned US favoured trade deal with the EU is worthless without Britain. If he was any kind of man he would admit that.
		
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Excellent post well written.


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## Farneyman (Apr 23, 2016)

I assume that by this thread title remaining unchanged the forum are now allowed use the term "dick" without infraction?

As President he was obstructed during his two terms and as a result this has put the brakes on an administration which could have done so much more for everyday Americans.

Peace and love!


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## PieMan (Apr 23, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			He's entitled to give his opinion, you're entitled to ignore it.
		
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Totally agree. I've read what he said and doesn't change my intended vote one bit. He's actually right though about trade deals. These take years to fully negotiate and agree and there are numerous 'EU/xx' deals currently being ratified, so in effect if we do vote out then we would go the 'back of the queue' for a number of countries. However I am sure that there would also be a number willing to engage with the UK at the earliest opportunity to get preferential treatment.


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## delc (Apr 23, 2016)

Papas1982 said:



			Persoanlly think he's just saying what Cameron has asked him too. Some people on the fence may now vote stay in beciase of it. Don't for one second think that us exiting would stop our special relationship.
		
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There is only a special relationship when it suits the USA!  :mmm:


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## USER1999 (Apr 23, 2016)

He is currently to be found chunking it round the Grove, in Watford.  Judging from the massive police presence,  and the general emptiness of the golf course,  excepting one four ball, with an entourage,  and a tall left handed black golfer.

Nice day for it though.


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## chrisd (Apr 23, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			He is currently to be found chunking it round the Grove, in Watford.  Judging from the massive police presence,  and the general emptiness of the golf course,  excepting one four ball, with an entourage,  and a tall left handed black golfer.

Nice day for it though.
		
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That's a special relationship - no Brits!


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## USER1999 (Apr 23, 2016)

I think Cameron is there too.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 23, 2016)

Sweep said:



*I have to say I was really shocked and angered *when I read what Obama had said. I didn't expect him to say anything in favour of brexit, but the strength of his tone was, as far as I know, unprecedented from a foreign leader on a matter of which he is not involved.
Hopefully next time the Americans want us to lay down the lives of our servicemen in support of their wars, we will tell them to get to the back of the queue. Also hopefully, this will end once and for all the talk of a "special relationship", something that hasn't existed in decades. Remember John Kerry couldn't stop telling us that France was their oldest ally? The US trick of telling everyone they are special is something they do over and over again to help them get what they want. To our shame, we have fallen for it again and again. 
More importantly in my view, I never thought I would see the day when a British Prime Minister would stand next to a foreign leader on British soil and advocate everything the foreign leader said while he bullied and threatened the British people and told us what to do. I am naturally a conservative voter. You would have to go a long way to make me consider going against that, but I cannot forgive Mr. Cameron for this. I will never place a vote for him again. I want a PM who will stand up for Britain, not for everyone else but Britain. For me it's kind of an essential part of the job. The whole thing, the sheer politics of desperation, the cynical Downing St spin which I thought had gone with Tony Blair, is an absolute disgrace.
The one thing I would like to know from the President I used to admire is this. When we go to the back of the queue (or should I say "line") for a trade deal with America, what trade deal is he talking about? We have never had a trade deal with America. If he wants to shut out the 5th biggest economy in the world, go for it. The truth is he knows that his planned US favoured trade deal with the EU is worthless without Britain. If he was any kind of man he would admit that.
		
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Oh my - you are easily shocked and angered - tell you what - if you don't like what he said - just ignore it eh?

Obama has an absolute *duty *to us to make very clear his view on UK Leaving - one that I understand most American politicians and businessmen agree with.  It is the Americans that BoJo (that complete and utter deceitful idiot) and the Brexiteers tell us we'll be able to develop such fantastic economic relationships with - and Obama says something Leave doesn't like and they spit their dummy out and stamp their feet - how utterly childish.  Violet Elizabeth Bolt watch out.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 23, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			And if he had said the UK should leave the EU you would no doubt be praising him for his forthright opinions.

His opinion as leader of our biggest ally and the most powerful country in the world is important and, on this issue, was no secret.

Less impressive was Boris' snidey reference to Obama's Kenyan heritage. Absolutely pathetic!
		
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That's it.  If he'd said - UK out of the EU is fine with us, makes no difference to the US whether UK is in or out - you would have loved him, just loved him - for saying it.  And if it were true that it would make no difference - or indeed as Brexit tells us might actually *improve* things for the USA - then Americans only cares about the USA - then Obama would have said that wouldn't he.  But no - Obama painted an uncomfortable picture for Brexit and they just don't like it.


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## ColchesterFC (Apr 23, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh my - you are easily shocked and angered - tell you what - if you don't like what he said - just ignore it eh?

Obama has an absolute *duty *to us to make very clear his view on UK Leaving - one that I understand *most American politicians* and businessmen *agree with.*  It is the Americans that BoJo (that complete and utter deceitful idiot) and the Brexiteers tell us we'll be able to develop such fantastic economic relationships with - and Obama says something Leave doesn't like and they spit their dummy out and stamp their feet - how utterly childish.  Violet Elizabeth Bolt watch out.
		
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Both Clinton and Trump have said that they are against the TTIP agreement as they think it will be bad for American jobs. If the UK votes to leave by the time any negotiations start Obama will have gone and the UK will be dealing with a new president. Surely if TTIP does not go ahead then the EU would have to start negotiations again on a new trade agreement and would therefore have to "go to the back of the queue" as Obama put it. So by voting to leave the UK could go to the back of the queue and still be ahead of the EU when TTIP is dismissed and they start new negotiations.


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## MarkE (Apr 23, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That's it.  If he'd said - UK out of the EU is fine with us, makes no difference to the US whether UK is in or out - you would have loved him, just loved him - for saying it.
		
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No, it's nothing to do with America (except what's in it for them). Next you'll be telling us your ok with some random europeans dictating to us. Also just turn it round, if Boris would have come out in favour of remaining he would'nt have been getting all the disdain from the stay lobby.


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## MarkE (Apr 23, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			I think Cameron is there too.
		
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Someone's got to carry his bag.


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## ger147 (Apr 23, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Both Clinton and Trump have said that they are against the TTIP agreement as they think it will be bad for American jobs. If the UK votes to leave by the time any negotiations start Obama will have gone and the UK will be dealing with a new president. Surely if TTIP does not go ahead then the EU would have to start negotiations again on a new trade agreement and would therefore have to "go to the back of the queue" as Obama put it. So by voting to leave the UK could go to the back of the queue and still be ahead of the EU when TTIP is dismissed and they start new negotiations.
		
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As you've pointed out, Obama is on his farewell tour and is an irrelevance to this particular issue. And in addition, his view is absolutely NOT shared across the board back home in the US, it is merely his personal view, to which he is entitled of course but is of no consequence moving forward.


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## larmen (Apr 23, 2016)

Is he really dictating anything? He i sinEurope to talk about this trade deal with the EU, and he i saying that if the UK leaves the EU then they have to start a deal from the beginning. Of course it will happen, but later. Much later.


As for him playing golf, would have been such great PR if he would have played a local member for $1 a hole rather than closing the course.


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## fundy (Apr 23, 2016)

larmen said:



			Is he really dictating anything? He i sinEurope to talk about this trade deal with the EU, and he i saying that if the UK leaves the EU then they have to start a deal from the beginning. Of course it will happen, but later. Much later.


As for him playing golf, would have been such great PR if he would have played a local member for $1 a hole rather than closing the course.
		
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he'd have done well, the grove doesnt have members!!!


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 23, 2016)

Personally I think those that think the opinion of the leader of the biggest economy in the western world are irrelevant in a discussion about how we will fit in to a globalised economy, are just highlighting their introverted narrow minded little England mentality.

 But of course other opinions are available


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Personally I think those that think the opinion of the leader of the biggest economy in the western world are irrelevant in a discussion about how we will fit in to a globalised economy, are just highlighting their introverted narrow minded little England mentality.

 But of course other opinions are available 

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And other opinions are equally valid depending on your political persuasion.


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## Sweep (Apr 23, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh my - you are easily shocked and angered - tell you what - if you don't like what he said - just ignore it eh?

Obama has an absolute *duty *to us to make very clear his view on UK Leaving - one that I understand most American politicians and businessmen agree with.  It is the Americans that BoJo (that complete and utter deceitful idiot) and the Brexiteers tell us we'll be able to develop such fantastic economic relationships with - and Obama says something Leave doesn't like and they spit their dummy out and stamp their feet - how utterly childish.  Violet Elizabeth Bolt watch out.
		
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Just what I would expect from Cameron's new poster boy.
Obama's duty is to the American people. He has absolutely no duty to us or anyone else who didn't elect him. This is actually little to do with anyone's stance on the EU debate, though as I have said before, if Cameron was using tax payers money to fund leaflets over and above agreed spending limits or indeed dragging a foreign leader in to argue for something you disagreed with, you would beyond livid and this just proves it.
There is nothing childish about expecting the British Prime Minister to put Britain first, though as someone who extolled the virtues of breaking up the Union, I wouldn't expect you to grasp that concept.
I think it is regrettable and indeed just plain sad that you are prepared to see your Prime Minister smiling, nodding and advocating a foreign leader talking down, belittling, insulting and threatening the British people as long as it helps your view on one issue in British politics prevail. You should be ashamed. 
I didn't like what Obama said, but it was his threatening language that shocked and angered me. But you are right, I can ignore it. However, as I said, what was worse was Cameron's cynical behaviour in this. That I cannot and choose not to ignore. He is my Prime Minister. I have every right to express my opinion.
Now, I am quite sure you haven't liked what I said, so why don't you just ignore that?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 23, 2016)

MarkE said:



			No, it's nothing to do with America (except what's in it for them). Next you'll be telling us your ok with some random europeans dictating to us. Also just turn it round, if Boris would have come out in favour of remaining he would'nt have been getting all the disdain from the stay lobby.
		
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Wrong!

I am in favour of remaining but can assure you my opinion of Boris Johnson would remain the same even if he was in the Stay camp.

An odious political opportunist of the worst sort who is best suited to presenting Have I Got News For You.

And no I am not a cuddly left -leaning liberal.


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## Sweep (Apr 23, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Personally I think those that think the opinion of the leader of the biggest economy in the western world are irrelevant in a discussion about how we will fit in to a globalised economy, are just highlighting their introverted narrow minded little England mentality.

 But of course other opinions are available 

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The UK is the biggest single investor in the US. the US is the biggest single investor in the UK. All without a trade deal and in spite of our membership of the EU. Do you really think the UK or indeed the US are going to turn their backs on that?
If we do vote for brexit, by the time it goes through Obama will be long gone. Therefore his views actually are pretty much irrelevant.
Funny how a British person standing up for Britain has somehow become narrow minded, introverted and part of a little England mentality.

But of course other opinions are available.


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Wrong!

I am in favour of remaining but can assure you my opinion of Boris Johnson would remain the same even if he was in the Stay camp.

An odious political opportunist of the worst sort who is best suited to presenting Have I Got News For You.

And no I am not a cuddly left -leaning liberal.
		
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Good post. I too detest Boris, especially for his cynical opportunist behaviour, but it won't stop me voting out. A federal Europe, NO! A European trading bloc, absolutely!


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## jp5 (Apr 23, 2016)

Obama's comments inevitabl given he'll see all the benefit and none of the cost.

Ultimately if he were a citizen, he might have a slightly different view of laws on sovereignty and immigration.

Can't imagine him going back stateside and extolling the virtues of Canada setting laws and free movement with Latin America! As much as I like the guy.


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## Fish (Apr 23, 2016)

Good enough to die in American-led wars but apparently not good enough to have a trade deal?.... Apparently my friends who died dont really matter? because we belong at the "Back of the queue"?

Go do one Obama!


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 23, 2016)

murphthemog said:



			He is currently to be found chunking it round the Grove, in Watford.  Judging from the massive police presence,  and the general emptiness of the golf course,  excepting one four ball, with an entourage,  and a tall left handed black golfer.

Nice day for it though.
		
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Did Blundell recommend the course to himâ€¦â€¦..


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## MegaSteve (Apr 23, 2016)

Big rally, in Hanover today, against the much vaunted EU-US trade agreement...

How long before 'Deutschexit' ???


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## SocketRocket (Apr 23, 2016)

MegaSteve said:



			Big rally, in Hanover today, against the much vaunted EU-US trade agreement...

How long before 'Deutschexit' ???
		
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The NHS Unions have been campaigning against TPIP as they say it will encourage more privatisation of the NHS but they all seem to be for staying in


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## Hobbit (Apr 23, 2016)

"Dear Mr Obama,

I would like to express my thanks about your rant regarding Britain's potential exit from the EU and its position in terms of the trade deal you are negotiating. This has led me to researching the TTIP trade agreement. 

WOW!

It would appear you've also woken up a number of MP's to the dangers of this very one sided agreement. I note the U.S. brokered an agreement under the same terms with South Korea, and the growth in jobs and investment appears to be 40,000 jobs lost and a drop in GDP of Â£3.5 billion.

Further to that, the agreement also permits big businesses to sue governments for loss of business without going through the courts, using secret panels made up of business leaders.

I would like to think that you have been misrepresented in this but it would appear that it is the big corporations of America that have 'bought off' the legislature in lobbying for these agreements.

Thank god our special relationship, and the relationship your country has with the rest of Europe, can be sold down the river to bolster the profits of big business in America.

your special friend,

Hobbit"


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 24, 2016)

I'm amazed no politician or reporter has pointed out the fact that trade deals work both ways. The US does a great amount of trade with the UK and none of those companies will want that thrown away. Will US companies exporting to the UK be happy at being at the back of the queue? These were really ill advised comments by Obama.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 24, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm amazed no politician or reporter has pointed out the fact that trade deals work both ways. The US does a great amount of trade with the UK and none of those companies will want that thrown away. Will US companies exporting to the UK be happy at being at the back of the queue? These were really ill advised comments by Obama.
		
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I rather think his comments were para phrased from Cameron and his associates.    

You make a very good point regarding trade restrictions, we are one of the USA's biggest customers and doing anything to restrict our business would not be in their favour.    The other point is that we don't have a free trade deal now so what would change if we 'Leave'?   Nothing thats what would change.

I am disgusted by some of our Ministers,especially Cameron, they seem to have so little faith in their country and will not admit to any benefits of leaving the EU. Not a single one! :angry:   I watched Teresa May on the Andrew Mar program, when the point was continually put to her that she would have no powers to control EU immigration; she gave out a diatribe of complete waffle, she tried to suggest that they are talking about trying to have more control over not allowing serial killers into the country from the EU as if that would be a great victory on controlling numbers    I used to think she was going to be good in Government, now I see her for what she really is:  A two faced power hungry, self interested sycophant.


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## Ethan (Apr 24, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			I rather think his comments were para phrased from Cameron and his associates.    

You make a very good point regarding trade restrictions, we are one of the USA's biggest customers and doing anything to restrict our business would not be in their favour.    The other point is that we don't have a free trade deal now so what would change if we 'Leave'?   Nothing thats what would change.

I am disgusted by some of our Ministers,especially Cameron, they seem to have so little faith in their country and will not admit to any benefits of leaving the EU. Not a single one! :angry:   I watched Teresa May on the Andrew Mar program, when the point was continually put to her that she would have no powers to control EU immigration; she gave out a diatribe of complete waffle, she tried to suggest that they are talking about trying to have more control over not allowing serial killers into the country from the EU as if that would be a great victory on controlling numbers    I used to think she was going to be good in Government, now I see her for what she really is:  A two faced power hungry, self interested sycophant.
		
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Little faith in the country, letting serial killers in - this sort of vacuous drivel is what the leave campaign is built on, an puffed-up sense of self-importance and paranoia. It is the equivalent of jumping out of a plane and having faith someone packed a parachute. 

The US does a lot more trade with the EU than UK, and will prioritise accordingly. The special relationship is a figment of people's imagination, and the delusion has been maintained only by the shared language. Obama cares no more about the UK than he does Germany, France or Spain. Nor will Hillary and Trump is worse again.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 24, 2016)

If you look behind the headlines it's obvious the US wants a solid and coherant EU, with the UK in it, to help contain and constrain Putin and his cohorts.
Do we really still think we are that all conquering Empire that once was? We are that biggish fish in a small pond, rather that than the small fish in a big pond.


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## MegaSteve (Apr 24, 2016)

Obama wants the same as Cameron, Merkel et al... Agreements that are good for their mates, in business, allowing them to keep the ordinary working person under heel...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 24, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Wrong!

I am in favour of remaining but can assure you my opinion of Boris Johnson would remain the same even if he was in the Stay camp.

*An odious political opportunist of the worst sort who is best suited to presenting Have I Got News For You.*

And no I am not a cuddly left -leaning liberal.
		
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This ^^^^


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 24, 2016)

Ethan said:



			Little faith in the country, letting serial killers in - this sort of vacuous drivel is what the leave campaign is built on, an puffed-up sense of self-importance and paranoia. It is the equivalent of jumping out of a plane and having faith someone packed a parachute. 

The US does a lot more trade with the EU than UK, and will prioritise accordingly. The special relationship is a figment of people's imagination, and the delusion has been maintained only by the shared language. Obama cares no more about the UK than he does Germany, France or Spain. Nor will Hillary and Trump is worse again.
		
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And this - and I suppose we'll now be hearing that the views of Hillary Clinton on the UK and EU don't matter and are uncalled for - oh we already have - with criticisms of the usual supeficiality and pettiness


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## Hobbit (Apr 24, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And this - and I suppose we'll now be hearing that the views of Hillary Clinton on the UK and EU don't matter and are uncalled for - oh we already have - with criticisms of the usual supeficiality and pettiness
		
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How many times have you criticised DC, the Tories and Westminster for having a say in Scottish politics and the referendum? We had months and months of you and Doon criticising for interference, yet all of a sudden you're happy to accept it on the EU issue. 

Rhetorical question; what would someone call someone else who says no, no, no but then says it's absolutely the right thing to do. Is it hippopotamus? No that doesn't sound right. Hypodermic? No, no not that.

By all means view it as petty and superficial, but at least it isn't hypocritical.


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## JohnnyDee (Apr 24, 2016)

I watched President Obama interviewed by Huw Edwards on Breakfast this morning, and thought some of what he's said recently was almost mischievous, as there was frequently a smile playing around his lips as he answered dear old Huw's somewhat (po-faced on behalf of the pro-exit outraged masses) questions.

Sadly I believe no matter what is said in the next 8 weeks the vote will be to exit. The underlying agenda seems to have been set pretty effectively by the gutter press and Sky News,  and if a straw poll of our group of 20 odd voters at the golf club is representative of the mood of the nation, then the figures in respect of opinion polls are going to be well out. Looks to me that once again the 'Conservatives' are being rather disengenous with their answers to the pollsters.


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## MarkE (Apr 24, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Wrong!

I am in favour of remaining but can assure you my opinion of Boris Johnson would remain the same even if he was in the Stay camp.

An odious political opportunist of the worst sort who is best suited to presenting Have I Got News For You.

And no I am not a cuddly left -leaning liberal.
		
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Whatever your or anyone else's views on Boris, he is at least entitled to air his views on on the EU question, unlike Obama or anyone else who don't get a vote on the matter.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 24, 2016)

Ethan said:



			Little faith in the country, letting serial killers in - this sort of vacuous drivel is what the leave campaign is built on, an puffed-up sense of self-importance and paranoia. It is the equivalent of jumping out of a plane and having faith someone packed a parachute. 

The US does a lot more trade with the EU than UK, and will prioritise accordingly. The special relationship is a figment of people's imagination, and the delusion has been maintained only by the shared language. Obama cares no more about the UK than he does Germany, France or Spain. Nor will Hillary and Trump is worse again.
		
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If anyone wants a lesson in drivel then look no further than your above rhetoric, it is typical of your petty bigoted vitriolic manner that smacks of someone with serious attitude problems. 

Did you watch the Andrew Marr program?  I doubt it.  When it was put to her that she had stood on a policy of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands and she was advocating us staying in the EU where she had no control at all.   She responded by talking about challenges to the ECHR relating to being able to restrict the right of serious EU criminals to have automatic right to UK residence.   Marr put it to her that this would not have any significant effect on EU immigration, she had no answer to that beyond making her repeated claims that this was 'very important'. If this is 'vacuous drivel' it is drivel that came out of the home secretaries mouth.

Regarding my point on free trade agreements with the USA.   I said that we don't have one now and if we leave the EU we wont have one then so there wont be any difference.  Can you explain in a civil manner (if thats possible) what is wrong with that statement please.

Regarding 'special relationships' I never mentioned that so maybe you can explain why you have suggested I did.


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## Ethan (Apr 24, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			If anyone wants a lesson in drivel then look no further than your above rhetoric, it is typical of your petty bigoted vitriolic manner that smacks of someone with serious attitude problems. 

Did you watch the Andrew Marr program?  I doubt it.  When it was put to her that she had stood on a policy of reducing immigration to the tens of thousands and she was advocating us staying in the EU where she had no control at all.   She responded by talking about challenges to the ECHR relating to being able to restrict the right of serious EU criminals to have automatic right to UK residence.   Marr put it to her that this would not have any significant effect on EU immigration, she had no answer to that beyond making her repeated claims that this was 'very important'. If this is 'vacuous drivel' it is drivel that came out of the home secretaries mouth.

Regarding my point on free trade agreements with the USA.   I said that we don't have one now and if we leave the EU we wont have one then so there wont be any difference.  Can you explain in a civil manner (if thats possible) what is wrong with that statement please.

Regarding 'special relationships' I never mentioned that so maybe you can explain why you have suggested I did.
		
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The Brexit campaign is built on an arrogant and self deluding idea that Britain is inherently better than Johnny Foreigner and is just being held back by the EU. It is up to you Brexiteers to prove that is the case, not just make a fantasy case based on wishful thinking and pseudo-patriotic flag waving. 

The issue of serious criminals, as you put it, flooding into the UK is one dreamt up by The Mail and The Sun. 

We need EU immigrants if our health service and other public services are to remain staffed. That doesn't preclude other immigrants.


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## Ethan (Apr 24, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And this - and I suppose we'll now be hearing that the views of Hillary Clinton on the UK and EU don't matter and are uncalled for - oh we already have - with criticisms of the usual supeficiality and pettiness
		
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Like every other example, people deplore or praise someone based on the content of the opinion, not the origin. If Obama had said that the UK was being held back by these continental Europeans, those who are deploring him now would be pairing him.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 24, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			How many times have you criticised DC, the Tories and Westminster for having a say in Scottish politics and the referendum? We had months and months of you and Doon criticising for interference, yet all of a sudden you're happy to accept it on the EU issue. 

Rhetorical question; what would someone call someone else who says no, no, no but then says it's absolutely the right thing to do. Is it hippopotamus? No that doesn't sound right. Hypodermic? No, no not that.

By all means view it as petty and superficial, but at least it isn't hypocritical.
		
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The only thoughts I had with Cameron expressing opinions about the Scottish Referendum was that his statements and getting involved were likely to be counter-productive to Scotland staying in the UK.  I don't recall saying that he should not get involved and that he should keep his thoughts to himself.  Which is what Brexiteers are saying to the current and probable next US President.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 24, 2016)

MarkE said:



			Whatever your or anyone else's views on Boris, he is at least entitled to air his views on on the EU question, *unlike Obama or anyone else who don't get a vote on the matter*.
		
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Sorry - but this is complete and utter rubbish.  This is the leader of the country in whom Brexit places great faith and store in building new and advantageous economic and security relationships. Not only *should* be telling us what he thinks - but we NEED to know.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 24, 2016)

Actually I hope that I'm not the only person who finds the title of this thread rather offensive.  I suppose the OP wouldn't get away with expressing the equivalent sentiment about Hillary Clinton given she supports Obama's views.  Then again - I might think the same about Trump


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## SocketRocket (Apr 24, 2016)

Ethan said:



			The Brexit campaign is built on an arrogant and self deluding idea that Britain is inherently better than Johnny Foreigner and is just being held back by the EU. It is up to you Brexiteers to prove that is the case, not just make a fantasy case based on wishful thinking and pseudo-patriotic flag waving. 

The issue of serious criminals, as you put it, flooding into the UK is one dreamt up by The Mail and The Sun. 

The point of '
We need EU immigrants if our health service and other public services are to remain staffed. That doesn't preclude other immigrants.
		
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You don't seem to be taking it in.  Let me try once more but do try to read and digest before going off 'half cocked'

The issue of 'Serious Criminals' coming into the UK unchecked (didn't say flooding)  was not 'my statement 'but that of Teresa May, she made the point of how she was challenging the right they have to come here.   She used this to support the way she would control immigration.  Do you get that now?  She said it not me!

You now make a point about needing immigrants to staff the NHS. Why have you added that one, did I say something here about it?  I don't think so, my points were about May's comments and trade with the USA.   If you have any points on what I actually said as opposed to what your somewhat distorted imagination thought I said I would be quite happy to discuss them with you, preferably in a civilised manner though, you know, the way you would discuss it face to face with me as opposed to behind your keyboard.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 24, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but this is complete and utter rubbish.  This is the leader of the country in whom Brexit places great faith and store in building new and advantageous economic and security relationships. Not only *should* be telling us what he thinks - but we NEED to know.
		
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What are these 'new and advantageous economic and security relationships' you  speak of?   I am only aware of the the requirement to make a free trade agreement.


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## MarkE (Apr 24, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - but this is complete and utter rubbish.  This is the leader of the country in whom Brexit places great faith and store in building new and advantageous economic and security relationships. Not only *should* be telling us what he thinks - but we NEED to know.
		
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I beg to differ. I don't need to know what anyone outside of the UK thinks as they all have their own vested interests. Whereas I disagree with practically everything you have to say on the matter, but your view is as valid as my own. Obama is on a farewell tour and will have zero impact on any new trade deals we strike with the US so I certainly *should not* be listening to him. Hopefully that's the last input from his good self.


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## SteveJay (Apr 24, 2016)

MarkE said:



			I beg to differ. I don't need to know what anyone outside of the UK thinks as they all have their own vested interests. Whereas I disagree with practically everything you have to say on the matter, but your view is as valid as my own. Obama is on a farewell tour and will have zero impact on any new trade deals we strike with the US so I certainly *should not* be listening to him. Hopefully that's the last input from his good self.
		
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Absolutely, well said Mark.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 24, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Actually I hope that I'm not the only person who finds the title of this thread rather offensive.  I suppose the OP wouldn't get away with expressing the equivalent sentiment about Hillary Clinton given she supports Obama's views.  Then again - I might think the same about Trump
		
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I agree with you on this. I'm very surprised it's been allowed to run without an amended title.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Actually I hope that I'm not the only person who finds the title of this thread rather offensive.  I suppose the OP wouldn't get away with expressing the equivalent sentiment about Hillary Clinton given she supports Obama's views.  Then again - I might think the same about Trump
		
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SILH.
You might find the title of the thread offensive, but however you dress it up 65 threads later people still feel offended or the opposite of to express there Opinions.
The leader of the most " Powerful" nation in the world has broke No 1 rule in politics. Keep your nose out of others country's political debates. Of course he is worried it may affect his country's trade with us and it may cost jobs, but guess what, the EU and this government cost me my job. No one shed a tear for me. No one, yet people are upset that I used a terminology to describe the most powerful man in the world.
When you have walked in my shoes and many others who have been affected by Mr Cameron's selective policies of when this country/ Government/EU will support its own people as against those who do a similar job on the other side of the world, you may well understand that my  initial post was corrected as I was so incensed by his buddy buddy comments. When your livelihood is taken away by those that now claim to have your best interests at heart, you get a bit emotional at the hypocrisy of it all.
Having seen the most powerful nation stick its nose into half of the Middle East, and leaving it in a bigger mess than when left alone. Why should we as a country that has a " special relationship" with The Yoy Ess Hay feel we should be exempt from interference. Hmm there's a thought, when was the last time the USA stuck its nose into something and it became a better place.
I like many others respected Obama for what he tried to achieve within his country, but feel he has more than crossed the line in sticking in his nose into "Joe Publics" massive concerns.
I have said before and will continue to say especially on this forum, I will sit on the fence and try to see both sides. But my personal life has a massive influence on my views and the Tory's/ EU have given me diddly squat in my life, they represent all I abhor in life, Mr Obama now finds himself in that same little Club.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 24, 2016)

Tashyboy, you're entitled to your opinion just as much as Obama is but this thread is a massive overreaction to his comments. I'm glad he stuck his nose in, it's quite informative - as were the quotes from the Canadian politician in the other thread. I welcome both interventions equally. Do you condemn them both or just the one you disagree with?


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Tashyboy, you're entitled to your opinion just as much as Obama is but this thread is a massive overreaction to his comments. I'm glad he stuck his nose in, it's quite informative - as were the quotes from the Canadian politician in the other thread. I welcome both interventions equally. Do you condemn them both or just the one you disagree with?
		
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I don't have a job because of this Government and the EU. that is fact. This government is now telling me I am better off in the EU. let me go off track a minute. My job in coal mining IS/ WAS dirty, it poisons the earth, this country will reduce its CO emissions by not producing it. I GET THAT. It has wiped its own coal industry out. Yet still imports coal which will produce more CO emissions due to transportation from the other side of the world. But that's ok coz there not our CO emissions. How is that right. MP Mark Spencer said we should be proud of coal mining coz it helped us win two world wars having our own energy. his hypocritical views are what upset me about the Tories.
 People are rightly concerned because they do not know whether staying in or out is the right or wrong thing to vote for. People are rightly concerned because this MAY affect them in the future. Well Fairway Dodger this has already affected me and it is crap. My views on in or out are are based 100 % on fact not opinion and how many who have posted on here can say that.
I am angry with myself because I feel heartless towards steel workers  (Wales and Redcar ) and others on here whose careers may suffer. But felt nothing for me and others who were discarded by Cameron's lies ( once more Mr Cameron said it will cost the taxpayer 75k per coal  miner to keep him in a job ) when he could of applied to the EU for a grant to keep 3 mines open to 2018 minimum at NO COST TO THE TAXPAYER if he had applied to the EU for grant aid.
As far as I am concerned staying in the EU is only beneficial to the UK if it benefits the Tory governments policies.
Re Mr Obamas comments, as I have said already, the people from outside of this country seem more concerned of what they will lose and not what we will gain.
If the president of Romania, Greece, etc etc came to these shores and said the same as Mr Obama I would say exactly the same. Keep your nose out.
If Mr Cameron is not interested in saving UK jobs, why should I believe that Mr Obama or any other leader of its country is interested in UK Jobs.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 24, 2016)

Not clear if that was a yes or no?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 24, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			If Mr Cameron is not interested in saving UK jobs, why should I believe that Mr Obama or any other leader of its country is interested in UK Jobs.
		
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But it seems you are not interested in UK jobs yourself, only those in the coal-mining industry.

You suggest that jobs could have been saved at no cost to the tax-payer but who do you think would provide the grant aid. The tax-payers throughout the EU including those of the UK.

In your world should the Government be applying for similar grant aid for those whose jobs are under threat at BHS or is this only for those in previously nationalised industries.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not clear if that was a yes or no?
		
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Still on the fence me &#128513;


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## Tashyboy (Apr 24, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			But it seems you are not interested in UK jobs yourself, only those in the coal-mining industry.

You suggest that jobs could have been saved at no cost to the tax-payer but who do you think would provide the grant aid. The tax-payers throughout the EU including those of the UK.

In your world should the Government be applying for similar grant aid for those whose jobs are under threat at BHS or is this only for those in previously nationalised industries.
		
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MM When Thoresby Colliery closed, it was the second best thing that could of happend to me. The best would of been the colliery staying open til 2018 with grant aid. Which would of been paid for by not just UK tax payers but every tax payer in the EU as you stated. The same money that your tax helped keep open coal mines in Poland, Germany, France, Czech etc etc. If my tax money can keep open European Collierys why could my tax not keep open my Colliery. Why because the application form that was submitted, stay sat on Mr Cameron's desk.
when people talk about us paying more in than we get out, our taxpayers money helped keep European miners in a job. 
Re applying for state aid, it is not just for de nationalised industry, any company that was under threat that supplied the mining industry was also given aid. If said company became profitable within the time it was granted aid. Then it could stay open as long as it paid back the money to the EU. With the rise and fall of energy costs that was a possibility so aid could of been granted at no cost to any taxpayer.
Re BHS claiming for state aid, of course they should be able to apply for state aid if the rules allow. But that is not the question. The question is would it be in this governments interests to apply for state aid.

Re me not being interested in UK jobs. When I knew that the pit was closing I was not interested in any job for me, ( retired &#128513 but it was heartbreaking seeing your best mates crack up. Two I " counselled" on the golf course, you do that for your pals, they felt totally useless. They are both fine now they are working. The other I have been talking to since last June. Last phone call was last weds when I was sat on a wall in Bibury by the river watching the trout in the Cotswolds on our break. 25mins we were talking about him now back with his wife after they split, his ex Bessie mates funeral is at Mansfield crem next Monday. Finished at the pit two years ago and died of a brain tumour aged 51. They were all passing bricks worrying about working, it was strange me not being bothered about working looking at guys who were holding onto false hope of EU aid. I suppose me not wanting to work helped me keep a level head with my pals who could not put abc or 123 into order. I am more than ok but you do not forget those times.


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## Sweep (Apr 25, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Actually I hope that I'm not the only person who finds the title of this thread rather offensive.  I suppose the OP wouldn't get away with expressing the equivalent sentiment about Hillary Clinton given she supports Obama's views.  Then again - I might think the same about Trump
		
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To use your own words
Oh my - you are easily offended - tell you what - if you don't like the title of the thread just ignore it eh?
So in your world, it's ok to be offensive to people, but only if you don't like them?


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## Hobbit (Apr 25, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Actually I hope that I'm not the only person who finds the title of this thread rather offensive.  I suppose the OP wouldn't get away with expressing the equivalent sentiment about Hillary Clinton given she supports Obama's views.  Then again - I might think the same about Trump
		
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Got to agree with you there Hogey. Irrespective of my views on Obama's opinion, he's earned a greater level of respect.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 25, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Got to agree with you there Hogey. Irrespective of my views on Obama's opinion, he's earned a greater level of respect.
		
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:thup:


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## Sweep (Apr 26, 2016)

Sky News poll out this morning seems to suggest Obama's comments have damaged the Remain campaign rather than help it.

Do you think he should have intervened? No 55% Yes 35%
Does Obama's support to remain make you more or less likely to vote to remain?
Less 29% More likely 22% No difference 49%
The proportion of Young people 18-34 who said prior to his comments that they were more likely to vote Remain due to Obama, fell 14 percentage points from 40% to 26%
Similarly 55+ age group who say they are less likely to vote remain because of Obama rose 16 points from 25% to 41%


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## SocketRocket (Apr 26, 2016)

Sweep said:



			Sky News poll out this morning seems to suggest Obama's comments have damaged the Remain campaign rather than help it.

Do you think he should have intervened? No 55% Yes 35%
Does Obama's support to remain make you more or less likely to vote to remain?
Less 29% More likely 22% No difference 49%
The proportion of Young people 18-34 who said prior to his comments that they were more likely to vote Remain due to Obama, fell 14 percentage points from 40% to 26%
Similarly 55+ age group who say they are less likely to vote remain because of Obama rose 16 points from 25% to 41%
		
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Not surprised.   One thing the British don't like is being told what to do and especially by politicians.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 26, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Not surprised.   One thing the British don't like is being told what to do and especially by politicians.
		
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Or by members of a golf forum!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 26, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Not surprised.   One thing the British don't like is being told what to do and especially by politicians.
		
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He wasn't telling us what to do.  He was giving us his opinion on what he thought was best for the UK.  No need for anyone to get irked by what he said.  If you didn't like it or agree with it then either just ignore it or argue against it. Simply making loud and indignant noises of complaint doesn't really help anyone.  It's just noise.


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## SteveJay (Apr 26, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			He wasn't telling us what to do.  He was giving us his opinion on what he thought was best for the UK.  No need for anyone to get irked by what he said.  If you didn't like it or agree with it then either just ignore it or argue against it. Simply making loud and indignant noises of complaint doesn't really help anyone.  It's just noise.
		
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Sorry, but his use of phrases like "the UK will be at the back of the queue" was definitely enough to irk some people, myself included!!


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 26, 2016)

I could change the title, but I would have to do it on each of the 85 posts so far
and to he honest, I ve got better things to do.

Its not a title we like, so this is making people aware that such terms are frowned upon,and we dont want to see them on here in future


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## Foxholer (Apr 26, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I could change the title, but I would have to do it on each of the 85 posts so far
and to he honest, I ve got better things to do.

Its not a title we like, so this is making people aware that such terms are frowned upon,and we dont want to see them on here in future
		
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You lazy Richard! 

If you'd reacted when first identified (3 days ago), it would only have been about 25!


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## SocketRocket (Apr 26, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			He wasn't telling us what to do.  He was giving us his opinion on what he thought was best for the UK.  No need for anyone to get irked by what he said.  If you didn't like it or agree with it then either just ignore it or argue against it. Simply making loud and indignant noises of complaint doesn't really help anyone.  It's just noise.
		
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Thought my point was an argument against and he was certainly telling us what to do.

Come on now SILH, you have been more than party to making loud and indignant noises about politicians where their point of view differs to your own.   Nigel Farage and the whole Conservative Government in every other issue except this one comes to mind.


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## Sweep (Apr 27, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			He wasn't telling us what to do.  He was giving us his opinion on what he thought was best for the UK.  No need for anyone to get irked by what he said.  If you didn't like it or agree with it then either just ignore it or argue against it. Simply making loud and indignant noises of complaint doesn't really help anyone.  It's just noise.
		
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Just wondering what the difference is between arguing against something and making loud indignant noises of complaint. Maybe if one agrees with the argument against it's not an indignant noise of complaint. Similarly, if one disagrees with the argument against, it is just indignant noise. So it comes down to personal opinion. Which is fine, as long as people aren't making loud indignant noises of approval


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 27, 2016)

There is a reason world leaders don't go to each others countries and interfere/give opinions on upcoming elections. It really hacks people off who live there. Stay out of it. Cameron could go to the US and sit on US chat shows and advise Americans that they really should not vote for Donald Trump as he would be bad for the rest of the world but it is not his position to do that. You don't interfere in other countries elections. Obama crossed a line and broke a protocol.


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			There is a reason world leaders don't go to each others countries and interfere/give opinions on upcoming elections. It really hacks people off who live there. Stay out of it. Cameron could go to the US and sit on US chat shows and advise Americans that they really should not vote for Donald Trump as he would be bad for the rest of the world but it is not his position to do that. You don't interfere in other countries elections. Obama crossed a line and broke a protocol.
		
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You seem to be confusing an election to elect a president/PM/leader, which as far as I am aware no foreign leader has ever offered an opinion on, with this 'vote' on EU membership.  Which I would argue he is opining on as we are major trade partners with the US, and vice versa.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 27, 2016)

No, it is still an internal election that is voted for by the people of the UK, no one else. He should keep his opinions to himself. If you look at most world leaders they will comfortably side step any question relating to elections of any type in other countries pointing out "it is for the people of that country to decide". This is no different.


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## jp5 (Apr 27, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			You seem to be confusing an election to elect a president/PM/leader, which as far as I am aware no foreign leader has ever offered an opinion on, with this 'vote' on EU membership.  Which I would argue he is opining on as we are major trade partners with the US, and vice versa.
		
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By that logic, given that we wouldn't want our major trading partners to be destabilised by a Trump presidency, Cameron should go over there and do all he can to stop his election, no?


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## Hacker Khan (Apr 27, 2016)

Lord Tyrion said:



			No, it is still an internal election that is voted for by the people of the UK, no one else. He should keep his opinions to himself. If you look at most world leaders they will comfortably side step any question relating to elections of any type in other countries pointing out "it is for the people of that country to decide". This is no different.
		
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It is not an election, it is a referendum  http://www.uk-engage.org/2013/05/what-is-the-difference-between-an-election-and-a-referendum/ 

I would argue there is a difference between a country electing a person to run it, and a vote on whether that country is part of a trading block.  You could take your argument further and argue what right to the owners of papers to get involved then seeing as a lot of them are not based in this country.  it could get very tricky if you start deciding who can and can't have an opinion in this matter. http://leftfootforward.org/2013/06/...owns-the-press-for-the-sake-of-our-democracy/ 

Personally I think anyone can have an opinion, and anyone is free to ignore it.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 27, 2016)

Election / Referendum - pedants corner but I take your point. Ha ha. Same rules apply in my eyes though.

The rules relating to elected leaders and members of the press are very, very different (not real rules but accepted behaviour). Anyone can have an opinion but leaders should be, and usually are, very careful expressing theirs in matters that interfere in the voting process, see what I did there, in another country.


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## drdel (Apr 27, 2016)

The 'rules' for a politician's speech are simple...

If trying to stay in post do not contradict the party line or answer questions attempting to draw out facts opposing the party line.

If about to retire, say what the majority of audience or hosts want to hear; you next position could rely on their goodwill.

POTUS is retiring, he's done next to now't for the USA and he's contributed nothing to the EU debate having kept away from any debate when the IMF were discussing the economic woes of the Euro zone - now he's an expert on the UK's relationship with the rest of the EU. Completely ignores the fact that the trade deal has been kicked into the long grass and Germany is fed up with Merkel as is the ECB!  There's no queue to put the UK at the back as currently the trade between the UK and USA has a value bigger than most.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 27, 2016)

OK, Obama has given his Cameron tainted  view.  If it's OK for foreign politicians to give views heres another:

[video=youtube;8f6v7ZwKw_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6v7ZwKw_s[/video]


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 28, 2016)

Aye - from where he sits 10,500 miles from London he still doesn't understand that the Â£350million weekly 'cost' is a load of tosh.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 28, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Aye - from where he sits 10,500 miles from London he still doesn't understand that the Â£350million weekly 'cost' is a load of tosh.
		
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It's not tosh.  our costs are Â£350 million weekly, we happen to get a rebate on that at the moment but it would be 'Tosh' to believe that will continue much longer. If we vote to stay the rest of the EU will know they have us by the gonads and will start turning the thumb screws and we will be powerless to do anything about it.

Oh! and while Obama sits 3,500 miles from London he doesn't understand there isn't a Que.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 28, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			It's not tosh.  our costs are Â£350 million weekly, we happen to get a rebate on that at the moment but it would be 'Tosh' to believe that will continue much longer. If we vote to stay the rest of the EU will know they have us by the gonads and will start turning the thumb screws and we will be powerless to do anything about it.

Oh! and while Obama sits 3,500 miles from London he doesn't understand there isn't a Que.
		
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Unlike some Brexiteers I'm quite happy for this guy to express his opinion.  He does though rather give the impression that it's a nett Â£350m - when we know it isn't.


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## Sweep (Apr 28, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Unlike some Brexiteers I'm quite happy for this guy to express his opinion.  He does though rather give the impression that it's a nett Â£350m - when we know it isn't.
		
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Â£350m a week gross and yes we get some back, which some people think is a good deal. Until you remember that we get it back in the form of grants. In other words we are told how we can spend it. Personally I would rather we decided how we spent our own money.
For example, in my area we are spending millions on rebuilding dry stone walls courtesy of an EU grant. Some of the new walls look like dry stone, but aren't. Others are. When the project started maybe a couple of years ago there were some figures in the news about how many children were living in poverty in the UK. I couldn't help thinking that money could have been better spent.


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## Sweep (Apr 28, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			It's not tosh.  our costs are Â£350 million weekly, we happen to get a rebate on that at the moment but it would be 'Tosh' to believe that will continue much longer. If we vote to stay the rest of the EU will know they have us by the gonads and will start turning the thumb screws and we will be powerless to do anything about it.
		
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What I haven't heard mentioned in the EU debate is how the result will be viewed if we choose to remain. I fear it will be seen as affirmation in Brussels and a green light for further integration and federalism.


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## FairwayDodger (Apr 28, 2016)

Sweep said:



			What I haven't heard mentioned in the EU debate is how the result will be viewed if we choose to remain. I fear it will be seen as affirmation in Brussels and a green light for further integration and federalism.
		
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Hopefully! :thup:


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