# Handicap and Distance



## Region3 (Oct 25, 2013)

Why is there such a prejudice about the higher handicap you are the shorter you should hit the ball?

If a typical 12hc came to you and asked for advice on how he can get to 6, is the right answer.....

1) Hit the ball 30yds further
2) improve your short game

I'm guessing most would answer 2.

So if a 6hc can hit the ball 260 (or whatever) and he's lowered his handicap by taking less shots around the green, why can't a 12hc hit the ball 260 without being called a liar?

I believe it's mostly the low hc's think it's a slur on their masculinity to suggest that a worse overall golfer can hit the ball as far or further than they do.

Any other theories?


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## chrisd (Oct 25, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Why is there such a prejudice about the higher handicap you are the shorter you should hit the ball?

If a typical 12hc came to you and asked for advice on how he can get to 6, is the right answer.....

1) Hit the ball 30yds further
2) improve your short game

I'm guessing most would answer 2.

So if a 6hc can hit the ball 260 (or whatever) and he's lowered his handicap by taking less shots around the green, why can't a 12hc hit the ball 260 without being called a liar?

I believe it's mostly the low hc's think it's a slur on their masculinity to suggest that a worse overall golfer can hit the ball as far or further than they do.

Any other theories?
		
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Not too sure it matters what people think. I played a team game on Sunday with 3 others, the longest hitter off the tee by some way was the 20 handicapper, the others were 11,14 and my 10. The 20 h/c was in play most of the time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2013)

Any handicap can hit a long ball - but the lower handicaps hit it more consistently and keep it in the fairways more I would suspect.


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## Region3 (Oct 25, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Not too sure it matters what people think. I played a team game on Sunday with 3 others, the longest hitter off the tee by some way was the 20 handicapper, the others were 11,14 and my 10. The 20 h/c was in play most of the time.
		
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It doesn't matter, I was just wondering why people think the way they do.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 25, 2013)

I've so often heard the "how can a ... handicapper hit it that far" and thought it was a daft question! It's often the approach and the short game that dictates the handicap imo. When I started (from a hockey background) I could drive it a good way relative to most lower handicap females. I sliced it a lot too but was rubbish once the drive was done and hated it. Called myself a "one trick pony" and started to work real hard on the rest of my game. Got that in shape and couldn't drive for toffee (golf hey!) but my handicap plummeted...


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## Region3 (Oct 25, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Any handicap can hit a long ball - but the lower handicaps hit it more consistently and keep it in the fairways more I would suspect.
		
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I agree, but there are plenty who apparently don't. Hopefully they'll be along at some point to help us understand.

Bearing in mind your post above, what did the following mean?




why don't you think you should be 1 or 2 clubs down from your playing partners ?. What handicap are you and them.

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## Hobbit (Oct 25, 2013)

You're not wrong Gary. It continues to amaze me how often I hear someone from mid teens h'cap down say something like, "I can't believe how far xx hits the ball, he's off 20-odd." I'm fairly short off the tee these days. Doesn't stop me putting a score together.


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## garyinderry (Oct 25, 2013)

If a typical 12hc came to you and asked for advice on how he can get to 6, is the right answer.....

 1) Hit the ball 30yds further
 2) improve your short game


to answer that question.   someone who has got to 12 probably has a fair idea how far they will hit the ball.  their swing speed more or less determines how far they can hit it with the driver.

being able to hit the ball 30 yards further than you normally do is a big ask.

improving the short game is the easiest way for a 12 to get down to 6.


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## louise_a (Oct 25, 2013)

It seems  common thing that the longer hitting girls came from a hockey background.


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## chrisd (Oct 25, 2013)

Region3 said:



			It doesn't matter, I was just wondering why people think the way they do. 

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Sorry!

I guess we have expectations of how different handicap levels can execute different types of shot, so you don't expect a 25 h/c to cream a 275 yard drive with a gentle draw - given that he can't chip or putt or he'd be off 12!


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 25, 2013)

I hit tons of drives out to 270+ this season and a fair few out to 300 yards with the longest being 312 yards and I'm off 17. I havent played many comps at all so I would probably be abit lower if I had of but still high handicappers can hit the ball as long as anyone else. 

In one of the comps I did play this year I drove the ball around the 290 yard mark and was around 6 FT from the front of a short par 4 green. I made a 5. Hitting long doesn't put a score together. (No putters where harmed during the making of one of the most shocking bogeys I have ever made)

Oh and to add I hit a draw most of the time... Is a 17 handicapper allowed to hit a draw?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 25, 2013)

Region3 said:



			I agree, but there are plenty who apparently don't. Hopefully they'll be along at some point to help us understand.

Bearing in mind your post above, what did the following mean?
		
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I was trying it get a picture of the players and his reasoning why he thinks he should be hitting it further. Knowing a players handicap also helps give an insight into their thinking.


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## garyinderry (Oct 25, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			In one of the comps I did play this year I drove the ball around the 290 yard mark and was around 6 FT from the front of a short par 4 green. I made a 5. Hitting long doesn't put a score together. (No putters where harmed during the making of one of the most shocking bogeys I have ever made)

QUOTE]

what happened in the next 4 strokes if you don't mind me asking?
		
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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 25, 2013)

Chip too hard that went past the hole leaving a downhill putt then the dreaded 3 putt, was purely down to lack of concentration. I had easy birdie in my head then over hit the chip which annoyed me and I went after the birdie putt downhill and left myself a tricky par putt which I missed. Ended the day on 36 points but should of been so much better that day after shooting 21 points on the front 9.


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## duncan mackie (Oct 25, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Any other theories?
		
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if there's no obvious stereotype we tend to create them in our minds in order to create 'logical structures'.

anyone hitting the ball 30 yds longer, but with the same lateral error distance (not angle) is probably going to score better - but anyone who sinks a greater length of putts over 18 holes is even more likely to score better 

as a senior I just try a knock it 180 down the middle these days....


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## TheJezster (Oct 25, 2013)

Slightly on topic, would a player tend to hit it a little further the longer he plays the game and his handicap comes down?

Actually, I dont suppose handicap comes into it.  If someone plays longer and is generally getting better, could they expect to hit it further?


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## garyinderry (Oct 25, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Chip too hard that went past the hole leaving a downhill putt then the dreaded 3 putt, was purely down to lack of concentration. I had easy birdie in my head then over hit the chip which annoyed me then went after the birdie putt downhill and left myself a tricky par putt which I missed. Ended the day on 36 points but should of been so much better that day after shooting 21 points on the front 9.
		
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no as big a nightmare I as had feared.   that could happen to anyone.  ive had one or two of those birdie putts that turn into bogies this year myself. 

kicking yourself the whole way to the next tee!


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## Rooter (Oct 25, 2013)

TheJezster said:



			Slightly on topic, would a player tend to hit it a little further the longer he plays the game and his handicap comes down?

Actually, I dont suppose handicap comes into it.  If someone plays longer and is generally getting better, could they expect to hit it further?
		
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I would say if they improve their technique, yes. Just playing and not changing, practicing or trying to improve, no.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 25, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			no as big a nightmare I as had feared.   that could happen to anyone.  ive had one or two of those birdie putts that turn into bogies this year myself. 

kicking yourself the whole way to the next tee! 

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Believe me in my next round I re-played the shot from 6FT over and over as it peed me off that much. If I had even made par then I would of had a cut but it wasn't to be in that round as I also lost a ball down the left side rough of a par 5 and to this day I believe someone from the opposite hole had it away when they where swarming the hole looking for there ball, there was not a chance it could have been totally lost. The course was rammed so I decided to blob the hole.


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## G.U.R (Oct 25, 2013)

When I was younger I played snooker, not to any great standard but have noticed that snooker is a lot like golf in as much as the more time you practise the better you get. I was a once a year golfer from the age of 18 started playing more regularly about 3 years ago and then joined a club in July last year. first handicap given was 25 and am now 16. No lessons just playing more and as long as you know how far you hit each club, then distance doesn't really matter it's the club you need to take to get the ball there.


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## sev112 (Oct 25, 2013)

Perhaps the lower handicappers choose to play a shorter ball, by swinging at 85% 

Plus course and mind management along with better short game to improve


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## pendodave (Oct 25, 2013)

re. the original question. It's not really that surprising.

The tee shot is the first thing a golfer does. By the time a 20 foot putt drops for a treble, it's already clear why a high handicap is appropriate. If the first tee shot has just gone 290 straight it might not be quite so obvious.

tbh, I would be slightly surprised if any high handicapper was really good at any particular aspect of the game. If a 28capper started hitting perfect sand shots, rolling in 20 foot putts, or nailing 100 yard pitches wouldn't you be a bit surprised ? I guess the obvious thought is that to have mastered one golfing skill usually demands a level of practice, coordination and application which would  suggest that the other skills could be mastered to a similar(ish) level.


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## garyinderry (Oct 25, 2013)

pendodave said:



			re. the original question. It's not really that surprising.

The tee shot is the first thing a golfer does. By the time a 20 foot putt drops for a treble, it's already clear why a high handicap is appropriate. If the first tee shot has just gone 290 straight it might not be quite so obvious.

tbh, I would be slightly surprised if any high handicapper was really good at any particular aspect of the game. If a 28capper started hitting perfect sand shots, rolling in 20 foot putts, or nailing 100 yard pitches wouldn't you be a bit surprised ? I guess the obvious thought is that to have mastered one golfing skill usually demands a level of practice, coordination and application which would  suggest that the other skills could be mastered to a similar(ish) level.
		
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perfect answer! :thup:


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## Andy808 (Oct 25, 2013)

Handicap and distance do not go hand in hand by any means. I play off 18 and our club pro plays of scratch (obviously!) yet we hit the ball almost the same distance with all but our wedges ( I'm slightly longer as I play the ball more from the back foot with my hands forward which works for me). 
We can stand on a tee together and discuss which club to hit which has got us some odd looks from people we have played with. His short game is far superior to mine and he is straighter. 
To me it's know your distances, learn to hit it straight and have a very good short game.


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## kid2 (Oct 25, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Why is there such a prejudice about the higher handicap you are the shorter you should hit the ball?

If a typical 12hc came to you and asked for advice on how he can get to 6, is the right answer.....

1) Hit the ball 30yds further
2) improve your short game

I'm guessing most would answer 2.

So if a 6hc can hit the ball 260 (or whatever) and he's lowered his handicap by taking less shots around the green, why can't a 12hc hit the ball 260 without being called a liar?

I believe it's mostly the low hc's think it's a slur on their masculinity to suggest that a worse overall golfer can hit the ball as far or further than they do.

Any other theories?
		
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I can relate to this slightly.... While off 14 at the start of the season i played a few rounds with a mate of mine off 3 and a friend of his off scratch....... I was driving the ball pretty well at the time and more often than not was as long if not longer on shots.... I was also taking less irons into greens and off of par 3's that they were.... What separated them from me was definitely there game from 100 yards and in and around the green.... I was average while they were very good..... There percentage of up and downs were also tighter than mine.....
Iv never really been looked at differently from lower handicappers for the distance i can hit my clubs.... I get more compliments than anything else but it was definitely clear to me where they differed......

I would say 1 and 2 of the above with a 3rd being keep the ball in play..... But that kind of reverts back to playing the right club for the situation as well..... I think so many players would score better if they swallowed some pride and left the driver in the bag when a particular situation demands accuracy.....
Iv seen so many people hit a driver on a 350 mtr par 4 when a couple of long irons or hybrids or even a wood would be a better choice..... It kind of boils down to seeing what others hit that dictates some players choice of club......


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## williamalex1 (Oct 25, 2013)

louise_a said:



			It seems  common thing that the longer hitting girls came from a hockey background.
		
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Spell check please  

hockey?


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## Region3 (Oct 25, 2013)

I guess I didn't word the question very well.

I'm not asking how a high handicap can get lower, or why a 5 is better than a 15.

All I want to know, is why high handicaps aren't believed when they say how far they hit their driver, or carry a 6 iron etc.


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## Birchy (Oct 25, 2013)

Its quite simple and i cant believe nobody has said this yet.

Theres too many captain Cavemen out there who gauge peoples game off how far they hit the ball rather than what their scores are like. The amount of times in the short time ive played golf ive heard somebody ask a players handicap after seeing a tee shot is unbelievable.

The aim of the game is not smashing it as far as you can. Its getting it in the hole in the least shots, end of.


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## Imurg (Oct 25, 2013)

Probably because the bulk of Humanity is stupid.....

I'm better than him so he can't possibly hit it further - such a stupid way of thinking.......
AS long as it's not beyond the realms of possibility - didn't we have someone on here a while back claiming to be able to hit a G20 Regular flex 350 yards or something - I'll believe them.

After all, if they can't they're only kidding themselves...and it doesn't matter anyway, I'll still probably beat them.  





But not the way I played today.........


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## FairwayDodger (Oct 25, 2013)

Have played with lots of guys (I do mean guys) who hit the ball a country mile. Some of these guys have high handicaps - the difference is not so much how far they hit it but how far from the fairway they end up!


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## garyinderry (Oct 25, 2013)

in truth, ive never come across anyone that plays the game regularly, practices, strives to improve, hit the ball a long way and still have a high handicap.

I know one guy who was until this year, a high handicap bomber.  he put a bit of work in and took his time around the greens and dropped like a stone from 22-14. the season ended before he could get cut any further. 


the fact of the matter is, if you continually bomb the ball a long way and keep it in play, the rest of your game should eventually catch up to the extent where you cant be described as a high handicapper. 

you cant be a long hitting high handicapper for ever! its only a matter of time and a bit of practice on the other parts of the game.

note : keep it in play.   anyone can hit a bomb if they are strong enough!


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## Fraz (Oct 25, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Sorry!

I guess we have expectations of how different handicap levels can execute different types of shot, so you don't expect a 25 h/c to cream a 275 yard drive with a gentle draw - given that he can't chip or putt or he'd be off 12!
		
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Chris, you saw how far I can drive compared to a pro! And i'm off 16 Lol!

I play with a scratch player week in, week out and distance between us is negligable. Its the iron into the green that usually screws me or the 2 drives per round that go wild!


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## SocketRocket (Oct 25, 2013)

I have to say that a good distance drive into the fairway does a lot to set up for a good score.  However to score low you need the ability to not only hit the regulation shots but also have a repartee of shots that can get you up and down from difficult situations.  Experience and structured practice helps with this.


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## williamalex1 (Oct 25, 2013)

duncan mackie said:



			if there's no obvious stereotype we tend to create them in our minds in order to create 'logical structures'.

anyone hitting the ball 30 yds longer, but with the same lateral error distance (not angle) is probably going to score better - but anyone who sinks a greater length of putts over 18 holes is even more likely to score better 

as a senior I just try a knock it 180 down the middle these days....
		
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You have just joined my" club" :thup:


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## JustOne (Oct 25, 2013)

Region3 said:



			All I want to know, is why high handicaps aren't believed when they say how far they hit their driver, or carry a 6 iron etc.
		
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Sorry mate (don't want to burst your bubble)... but it's the same for low h/caps too.... I hit one 499yds today


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## Crow (Oct 25, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I hit one 499yds today 

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You lightweight.


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## williamalex1 (Oct 25, 2013)

From 100yrds in I'm as good as most, the problem is getting to the 100yrds mark,  on a 465 yrd par 4 takes me 3 shots.My best drive will be 230 So I'm still left with 235 to the front of green, which is beyond my capability . But you young guns  bomb it 320 then hit a wedge in. I'm envious but keep it going : I HATE YOU.


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## JustOne (Oct 25, 2013)

Crow said:



			You lightweight. 

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Right foot slipped.


In answer to your question Gary... I don't know.... insecurity?

Refusal to accept that their own swing might not be as efficient as they think?

Small willies?


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## needmoreclub (Oct 25, 2013)

williamalex1 said:



			From 100yrds in I'm as good as most, the problem is getting to the 100yrds mark,  on a 465 yrd par 4 takes me 3 shots.My best drive will be 230 So I'm still left with 235 to the front of green, which is beyond my capability . But you young guns  bomb it 320 then hit a wedge in. I'm envious but keep it going : I HATE YOU.

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Got the same problem with distance, never been a long hitter but honed my short game to a reasonable level. Would i like to be able to 'bomb' it? yes but not at the cost of control or direction.


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## chrisd (Oct 25, 2013)

Fraz said:



			Chris, you saw how far I can drive compared to a pro! And i'm off 16 Lol!

I play with a scratch player week in, week out and distance between us is negligable. Its the iron into the green that usually screws me or the 2 drives per round that go wild!
		
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Indeed I did, in fact you out drove a tour pro a couple of times and funny enough, although I never out drove him I hit one or two shots into greens better - that sums up handicaps I think


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## Sid Rixon IV (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm off 28.
I frequently out drive much better players.
I slice too many drives.
I misalign too many great shots.

I used to go to the range to "bomb" drives.
When I last went I took a hybrid and three wedges.

I had a lesson today.
I was made to slow my swing and appreciate accuracy over distance.
I'm beginning to understand.


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## williamalex1 (Oct 26, 2013)

needmoreclub said:



			Got the same problem with distance, never been a long hitter but honed my short game to a reasonable level. Would i like to be able to 'bomb' it? yes but not at the cost of control or direction.
		
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:thup:Send me a PM we'll arrange a game .


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 26, 2013)

I think I used to bomb it years ago.

I probably used to regularly hit it 250 plus and up to 300, but it would 1 in 5 at best. I started as a typical 19 year old and used to smash it as hard as possible, and had a massive slice. My driving got slightly better over the years.

However, 18 months ago I had my first lesson (when off 9) and lost 30 yards off drives, but I am much straighter and more consistent, although still play a slight fade. 

I'm now off 6 and have probably lost 30-50 yards in the last 5 years, but my scores are much better and more consistent. Yep, 30% of golfers may hit it further than me, but i will score better than 80%, I'd like to think.

To answer the question, yes, sometimes I will hear people say - you hit it a mile for a xx handicapper (and I've also said it myself), but golf is a game of many facets. 

As Marge Proops says, length isn't everything. Glad she answered my letter.


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## Lump (Oct 26, 2013)

Is it also not the case that high handicappers can't judge distance aswell as lower hcp players. 
I play with a lot of 18-21 handicappers. The amount of times I'll give them a distance and then they proceed to hit 2 clubs less and then ponder why it comes up short.


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## mchacker (Oct 27, 2013)

Longest hitter I've ever seen is a 12hcp, but the last good drive I saw from him was on the 6th, everything else was sprayward. And what happened after the long drives was rarely worth waiting for


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## JustOne (Oct 27, 2013)

I know 2 guys off scratch that don't hit it more than 235yds.

(that's probably why they've never joined the forum)


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 27, 2013)

Region3 said:



			I guess I didn't word the question very well.

I'm not asking how a high handicap can get lower, or why a 5 is better than a 15.

All I want to know, is why high handicaps aren't believed when they say how far they hit their driver, or carry a 6 iron etc.
		
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Because normally they don't hit it as far as they say. When someone says they carry a driver 275-280yds it has to be taken with a pinch of salt because most of them don't. That goes for low and high handicappers. I'm not saying none of them do, just that there are so many that don't. It's something that has to be seen to be believed normally.

Also, lofts are jacked on so many iron sets these days if someone claims to hit a 6i 170 yards, thy probably do, it's just not really a 6i


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 27, 2013)

If I were playing with a 28 handicapper who smashed the ball 260yds down the fairway but plays to 28 I'd think he's got a great foundation for a good game.  If he does same in a match with me [playing well and gives me a dog licence I'd wonder a bit about his a handicap.  I have absolutely no issues with the former being able to hit a good ball off the tee - lots of good cricketers taking up the game can do that easy.


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## CMAC (Oct 27, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I know 2 guys off scratch that don't hit it more than 235yds.

(that's probably why they've never joined the forum) 

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Now that's a very hard h/cap to adhere to with these distances, they wouldn't even reach many par 4's on long courses or in soggy conditions! 

My cousin hits it ridiculous distances, I can't get near his PW with my 8 iron, his driver just leaves me with my jaw dropped and I'm no slouch, he's off 19!


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## MashieNiblick (Oct 27, 2013)

Region3 said:



			I guess I didn't word the question very well.

I'm not asking how a high handicap can get lower, or why a 5 is better than a 15.

All I want to know, is why high handicaps aren't believed when they say how far they hit their driver, or carry a 6 iron etc.
		
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I think there may be a bit of historical baggage when it comes to hitting the driver. In ye olden dayes when drivers were small bits of wood on the end of steel shafts with faces usually set about 2 degees open, hitting it long and straight with the "furniture" was the preserve of the low h'capper.

460cc computer designed heads made from titatium and carbon composite aero space materials with  precisely placed MOI, faces set up squarer or even closed and lightweight shafts have changed that. IMHO the driver is now one of the easiest clubs to hit when it used to be one of the hardest.

So  I don't have an problem believing a higher handicapper can drive the ball 270. I have seen great driving from many high handicappers. Didn't stop them eventualy making double bogey though for a heap of other reasons.

Just to divert the thread a touch, I'd think it would be more unusual for a 20+ handicapper to have a deadly short game or be brilliant from the sand. I know some are, and I've seen it, but they are often (though not always) older players who have played off a lower h'cap.


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## Hunka Turf (Oct 27, 2013)

Ive sometimes been suspicious of very high handicap players claiming to hit it a very long way because I think it takes good technique to be able to hit the ball a long way consistently. It's not just a case of lashing at it. And if their technique is sound, they should be able to get their handicap down. 

Im definitely insecure about my distance though, I don't get the most out of my swing.


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## Robobum (Oct 27, 2013)

Its not the isolated or occasional big one that is hard to believe (The sun shines on every dog's arse once a day!! ) - but if I hear that they are knocking it out there at 270 and in play the majority of time it becomes harder to believe.

It's harder (for me) to believe or 2 reasons:

To hit hit 270 and be in play, the ball has been hit pretty squarely close to the sweetspot. If you have the ability to do that with the longest and fastest moving club in the bag, it makes no sense that you are then chunking blading and shanking your irons from there. At 270 off the tee, you are hitting short irons into an awful lot of holes.

The other reason is that I have never seen it. Seen plenty of big hitting high handicaps, but after hat big one will follow one that doesn't hit the golf course, one that is topped, one that scars the paint on the roof....etc.


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 27, 2013)

Robobum said:



			Its not the isolated or occasional big one that is hard to believe (The sun shines on every dog's arse once a day!! ) - but if I hear that they are knocking it out there at 270 and in play the majority of time it becomes harder to believe.

It's harder (for me) to believe or 2 reasons:

To hit hit 270 and be in play, the ball has been hit pretty squarely close to the sweetspot. If you have the ability to do that with the longest and fastest moving club in the bag, it makes no sense that you are then chunking blading and shanking your irons from there. At 270 off the tee, you are hitting short irons into an awful lot of holes.

The other reason is that I have never seen it. Seen plenty of big hitting high handicaps, but after hat big one will follow one that doesn't hit the golf course, one that is topped, one that scars the paint on the roof....etc.
		
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This pretty much sums it up


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## User20205 (Oct 27, 2013)

I was 20 yards longer off 18 than I am now off 8. 

I'd go to the range and hit 100 drives, it's all I practiced. I couldn't hit an iron to save my life. I would have a decent 9 holes, then the wheels would fall off big time.

There is a fella in the society I play in who is similar. Plays off 20, hits it a mile, his irons are awful, his short game non existent!!


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## Foxholer (Oct 27, 2013)

There's a lot of difference between 'I can hit it 270' and 'I normally hit it 270'! Then add the 'and on the fairway' and you can see why there's an issue with belief.

I played a few times with a 22 (just reduced from 24 and now 17 or 18) capper who drove past the pin (even through the green once) on a 296 yard Par 4. So I have no problem with the 'can hit' statement. Only problem was that he was just as likely to end up in trees right (occasionally left) or on the adjoining fairway!

And as many high guys only use the range to 'practice' (smash) Driver, it's not unreasonable that that is their 'best' club.


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## JustOne (Oct 27, 2013)

One of the longest hitters AND best ball strikers (irons) I've ever seen plays off 20.

Direction is his problem, also his chipping isn't great, nor his bunker play.


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## upsidedown (Oct 27, 2013)

My brother gets hung up on higher handicappers than himself not being able to play certain shots where IMO we are all capable of playing as good a shot as a Pro just that it's rarer than hens teeth it happens.

On the subject of ball striking, is it the strike of the ball or the accuracy? Surely if you've struck it perfectly the ball will end up where you wanted it, but how many times do we get a really clean strike to only watch the ball sail into the cabbage. Great strike but rubbish result.
So therefore to be a great ball striker do we have to be accurate too? For me I'd answer yes.


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## ArnoldArmChewer (Oct 27, 2013)

Anyone can hit the ball a long way, the lower handicappers know where to hit it, that's all


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## Slab (Oct 27, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Why is there such a prejudice about the higher handicap you are the shorter you should hit the ball?


Any other theories?
		
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Yup, there are far far far too many _achieved _driving distances quoted (in the clubhouse or online) that translate to 'on a good hit' or 'when conditions are right' and because the low handicappers are (I suspect) a little more realistic (& accurate) in quoting their average length, then the diff between them is reduced or unclear

& I'm in the high handicap camp... but I've said it before, 190 yards is a good drive for me and guess what? _*This puts me only 18 yards below the 208 yrd average driving distance last year*_

This also means that almost without exception everyone I've met in the 19th and read about online are above average drivers...what are the odds! 

Either that or somewhere out there is an 18 hole par 3 course with 10,000 members that are bringing this stat down!


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 27, 2013)

JustOne said:



			One of the longest hitters AND best ball strikers (irons) I've ever seen plays off 20.

Direction is his problem, also his chipping isn't great, nor his bunker play.
		
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This is an interesting one and a conversation I've had with someone before. Can you be a great ball striker if you can't keep it in play? I would argue not.


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## Imurg (Oct 27, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			This is an interesting one and a conversation I've had with someone before. Can you be a great ball striker if you can't keep it in play? I would argue not.
		
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It's down to the definition of a good strike.
If you hit the ball cleanly from the sweet spot is that a good strike?
If the clubhead's pointing the wrong way but you still hit the middle is that a good strike..?

You're probably right though...


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## JustOne (Oct 27, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			This is an interesting one and a conversation I've had with someone before. Can you be a great ball striker if you can't keep it in play? I would argue not.
		
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Depends what your aim is like :thup:


Tiger is a pretty good ball striker (so I've heard).... missed more fairways than any other player on tour (so I've also heard).


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## harpo_72 (Oct 27, 2013)

It's actually meaningless, I know lots of people who hit past me off higher handicaps, I know people of lower handicaps who are shorter than me. However it is always amusing watching it all occur, and the sincere knowledge that if they swing like that without practice an injury or wayward shot will ensue ... I wish these high handicap players would stop going on about how long they hit it, try talking about the amount of shots they took.


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## Foxholer (Oct 27, 2013)

PGA Tour stats has a 'Ball Striking' category that merges Driving Distance and GIR.

Not sure how it does it as the stated way (simply adding the 2 ranking numbers ) doesn't match what the rankings say.

The term 'flush' is probably the one that simply describes contact, with no consideration of whether it goes in the right direction. I've seen a description of ball-striking involving the shape of the shot as well.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 27, 2013)

On Sat I played a 500yard par 5 as follows... Driver - 6 iron - 2 putt birdie. Am I allowed to do this off 17? 

I also played a par 4 as follows. Drive which left me 90 yards in - fat pitch - crap chip - 3 putt = 6 

I drove the ball like a very low handicaper on sat but my short game and putting was complete crap due to lack of golf and practice lately. The players behind us where constantly praising my tee shots and probably thought I was a low handicapper but they where not around the greens to what happened next.

I also hit the gym 6 days a week so I would expect a power advantage. 

Shall we start a thread on high handicappers who are good putters?


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## Foxholer (Oct 27, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Shall we start a thread on high handicappers who are good putters?
		
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Pretty short thread I would think!


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 27, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			On Sat I played a 500yard par 5 as follows... Driver - 6 iron - 2 putt birdie. Am I allowed to do this off 17? 

I also played a par 4 as follows. Drive which left me 90 yards in - fat pitch - crap chip - 3 putt = 6 

I drove the ball like a very low handicaper on sat but my short game and putting was complete crap due to lack of golf and practice lately. The players behind us where constantly praising my tee shots and probably thought I was a low handicapper but they where not around the greens to what happened next.

I also hit the gym 6 days a week so I would expect a power advantage. 

Shall we start a thread on high handicappers who are good putters?
		
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It was very windy on Saturday :ears:


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 27, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			It was very windy on Saturday :ears:
		
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Lol still hit some belters into the wind. I didn't enjoying the soggy fairways though, Drives where stopping like wedge shots. Back at home this week (PGA) so I'm hoping they have still got some roll on them. West Midlands was very wet and slow though. The slow greens really caught me out. I actually prefer the fast pace of the PGA's greens now.

I did par the 18th island green par 3 at West Midlands though which is very identical to the one at TPC sawgrass - 140 yards it played.


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## the hammer (Oct 27, 2013)

My take on this would be keeping the ball in play whilst hitting it long, my h/c dropped from 18 to 14 in a weekend, with nothing longer than a 4 iron, i found the difference between 18 & 14 massive, without the ability to hit long and stay in play i'll struggle to better bogey golf.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 27, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			On Sat I played a 500yard par 5 as follows... Driver - 6 iron - 2 putt birdie.
		
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300yd drive followed by 200yd 6i then?

Can you estimate your carry for both shots as not really able to get my head around these distances.


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 27, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Lol still hit some belters into the wind. I didn't enjoying the soggy fairways though, Drives where stopping like wedge shots. Back at home this week (PGA) so I'm hoping they have still got some roll on them. West Midlands was very wet and slow though. The slow greens really caught me out. I actually prefer the fast pace of the PGA's greens now.

I did par the 18th island green par 3 at West Midlands though which is very identical to the one at TPC sawgrass - 140 yards it played.
		
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Driver-6i 500yds on a soggy course with no run? No disrespect but those are frankly unbelievable distances for an amateur golfer, downwind or not.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 27, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Driver-6i 500yds on a soggy course with no run? No disrespect but those are frankly unbelievable distances for an amateur golfer, downwind or not.
		
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Carry distances?  Blimey - either that or the hole yardage is way wrong


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 27, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Driver-6i 500yds on a soggy course with no run? No disrespect but those are frankly unbelievable distances for an amateur golfer, downwind or not.
		
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Remember many base their distances hit upon the figure on the scorecard, not the distance of the hole as played. Therefore, the distance "achieved" by forward tees etc; is often overlooked.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 27, 2013)

LOL here we go another no he didn't...

Right Garmin S3 measured... 500 yard par 5. Might have been 503 on the watch standing on the tee. Wind diagonal from left to right down the hole. Hit a draw which measured exactly 298. I then had 210 to the back of the green and hit 6 iron as I didn't want to come up short of the green as there is a lake which runs across the front of the green. On arrival of the green my ball was on the back edge of the green approximately 1 yard from my pitch mark (crater) two putt for a birdie. 

Not sure why I would need to lie.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 27, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			LOL here we go another no he didn't...

Right Garmin S3 measured... 500 yard par 5. Might have been 503 on the watch standing on the tee. Wind diagonal from left to right down the hole. Hit a draw which measured exactly 298. I then had 210 to the back of the green and hit 6 iron as I didn't want to come up short of the green as there is a lake which runs across the front of the green. On arrival of the green my ball was on the back edge of the green approximately 1 yard from my pitch mark (crater) two putt for a birdie. 

Not sure why I would need to lie.
		
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And yes there was very little run on the fairways as they where soggy so I'd imagine it would have been longer in summer conditions. If you need proof of me being able to hit a drive 300 yards then PM Hovis as he has played many rounds with me. He can also hit a long ball. We are fit young men who train a lot and have the strength and power to hit the ball a long way when our technique is on. 

Moral of the story... Get down the gym if you want more distance.

And before the oldies get upset I'm not saying I average 300 yards I'm just saying I can get it out there.


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## 3565 (Oct 27, 2013)

I think technology has a lot to do with it. Bigger heads, larger sweet spots, balls spinning less flying further, shafts that help with kick points pending on your swing, and general fitness. With all them factors could an 18hc player hit it 270? Possibly, but on a consistent basis to average the claim that they hit it 270......... No. The average on the PGA tour is only 288.8yds, which seems low when you see them booming over 300yds. But not everyone can do that, so realistically the '18 hc golfer' is 18.8 yds behind guys who do this for a living and even those who are short on the tour, their ball striking is far better then your scratch player. They are leagues away from the amateurs that we are. 
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equi...5/2012/08/is-distance-really-out-of-cont.html


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## 3565 (Oct 27, 2013)

Moral of the story... Get down the gym if you want more distance......

moral of the story, stop hitting the gym and spend more time on your short game if you want to get your handicap down.........


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## Liqdaddymac (Oct 27, 2013)

A lad I play with a fair bit constantly carries the ball with a square headed nike driver 310 yards in calm conditions with pretty much zero roll, it starts off low, slowly climbs up and up and up then drops almost vertically down. He is yet to beat me.

I play off 6 and constantly put it past the lad off +2 at our club.......


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 27, 2013)

3565 said:



			Moral of the story... Get down the gym if you want more distance......

moral of the story, stop hitting the gym and spend more time on your short game if you want to get your handicap down.........
		
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Why? Its winter and there aren't many comps. I'd like a lower handicap but after playing only 4 comps in my first season it isn't going to come tumbling down. I play golf for fun at the moment but who knows I might practice as much as Homer one day.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 27, 2013)

So Hawkeye... Is the S3 wrong or am I lieing? Why would it be unbelievable really? A 298 yard drive is unbelievable LOL maybe 350+ yes but 298 really? And a 200 yard 6 iron??? I would use my 6 iron for anything from 175-185 normally so is 15 yards extra with some wind truly unbelievable. The wind didn't suit my shot shape but it gave me 15 yards. If it had of landed on a summer fairway it could of rolled out up to 220 yards, would I be hung for quoting a 220 yard 6 iron?

This forum makes me laugh when I comes to distance threads.


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## Liqdaddymac (Oct 27, 2013)

If it makes you feel less strong Daveyboy, I played a comp at Royal Porthcawl off the back tees at went long with my 6 iron at the 215 yard par 3 4th. I also made the par 5 5th in 2 and my second shot was an iron up a steep hill for those that know it ....I won't state the yardage for that hole as I will be chased out of town and hung!

*generally hit my 30Â° 1/2" longer ping i20 6 iron 175 yards.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 27, 2013)

Liqdaddymac said:



			If it makes you feel less strong Daveyboy, I played a comp at Royal Porthcawl off the back tees at went long with my 6 iron at the 215 yard par 3 4th. I also made the par 5 5th in 2 and my second shot was an iron up a steep hill for those that know it ....I won't state the yardage for that hole as I will be chased out of town and hung!

*generally hit my 30Â° 1/2" longer ping i20 6 iron 175 yards.
		
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Yep that sounds like a normal 6 iron spec... Not trying to sound strong just stating that a high handicap player can have decent distance. I accidently carried an 8 iron with the wind 190 yards and over the back of a green a few weeks back. Does that mean I use my 8 iron for the next 190 yard shot I have? Defiantly not. 

Oh well winter will be in full flow soon and we will have to deal with the distances the shorter players have during there summer :rofl:


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			So Hawkeye... Is the S3 wrong or am I lieing? Why would it be unbelievable really? A 298 yard drive is unbelievable LOL maybe 350+ yes but 298 really? And a 200 yard 6 iron??? I would use my 6 iron for anything from 175-185 normally so is 15 yards extra with some wind truly unbelievable. The wind didn't suit my shot shape but it gave me 15 yards. If it had of landed on a summer fairway it could of rolled out up to 220 yards, would I be hung for quoting a 220 yard 6 iron?

This forum makes me laugh when I comes to distance threads.
		
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I'm not saying you don't hit it that far, they are just very long distances for a club golfer and are in my opinion unbelievable, total distance maybe but carry? When people start quoting carry distances further than half the PGA tour get in total distance, I become a bit of a cynic. However, if you do you do and good luck to you.


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## Foxholer (Oct 28, 2013)

Who really actually cares about Distance anyway.

It's how, not how many!

I actually played with an ex Scotland A Rugby player who was trying to reduce his distance! 9 iron 190! As a Prop/Second Rower he just had/has huge upper body strength - without the massive bulk that gets in the way of a Power Lifter at the same club. But he stated that he struggles to break 100 because his touch is 'awful'.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 28, 2013)

Distance -schmistance.  In his book _Golf My Way_ Big Jack gives his driver distance as 250yds+ and his 6i distance as 155yds-170yds.  Go figure.

In the club Captains Day longest 5i competition I once hit a 5i 215yds - running and gently right to left sloping fairway - and I drew it.  I came second by a few yards to my buddy .  And I (still) don't hit the ball 215yds with a 5i.

Don't know why we bother with distance stuff here - it's almost always contentious - and frustrating for honest john posters of their yardages.  

Truth is that for most of us distance doesn't really matter.  

BTW - note how non-specific Big jack was about how far he hit is 6i.  This tells me he would know the distance he had to hit a shot but he would choose his club and swing to suit what he wanted to achieve and the feel of the shot he wants to play.  By which I mean he doesn't say he hits his 6i 170yds - but says that sometimes he will.  He could have said he hits a 6i shots on average 162.5yds (to be precisely imprecise).  Blimey - that's a bit feeble.


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## JustOne (Oct 28, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Distance -schmistance.  In his book _Golf My Way_ Big Jack gives his driver distance as 250yds+ and his 6i distance as 155yds-170yds.  Go figure.
		
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Persimmon driver and a ball made of sponge..... they were the days!


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## pokerjoke (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			So Hawkeye... Is the S3 wrong or am I lieing? Why would it be unbelievable really? A 298 yard drive is unbelievable LOL maybe 350+ yes but 298 really? And a 200 yard 6 iron??? I would use my 6 iron for anything from 175-185 normally so is 15 yards extra with some wind truly unbelievable. The wind didn't suit my shot shape but it gave me 15 yards. If it had of landed on a summer fairway it could of rolled out up to 220 yards, would I be hung for quoting a 220 yard 6 iron?

This forum makes me laugh when I comes to distance threads.
		
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I have not got a problem with these distances.
Fair play if you can bang it out there.
Just going back to the OP 
I have had many a higher handicapper than myself drive past me,and I have no 
problem at all with that,mainly because it wont be by much.
However most people seem not to understand an average.
Hitting a drive 300 yards then the next one 260 straight away brings the average down
to 280.
Im sure most on here[apart from Tiger 295]  have hit 300 yards at some time,but
come on,most on here have seen other players games and have realised it doesn't happen
too often.
As ive said before I have been on a few forum meets,and I havnt seen a longest drive over 300 yet.


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## Slab (Oct 28, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			I have not got a problem with these distances.
Fair play if you can bang it out there.
Just going back to the OP 
I have had many a higher handicapper than myself drive past me,and I have no 
problem at all with that,mainly because it wont be by much.
However most people seem not to understand an average.
*Hitting a drive 300 yards then the next one 260 straight away brings the average down
to 280.*
Im sure most on here[apart from Tiger 295]  have hit 300 yards at some time,but
come on,most on here have seen other players games and have realised it doesn't happen
too often.
As ive said before I have been on a few forum meets,and I havnt seen a longest drive over 300 yet.

Click to expand...

Worse still if you follow your 300 & 260 and hit the next one OOB or lost, your average driving distance is now 186 yards !


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 28, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			I have not got a problem with these distances.
Fair play if you can bang it out there.
Just going back to the OP 
I have had many a higher handicapper than myself drive past me,and I have no 
problem at all with that,mainly because it wont be by much.
However most people seem not to understand an average.
Hitting a drive 300 yards then the next one 260 straight away brings the average down
to 280.
Im sure most on here[apart from Tiger 295]  have hit 300 yards at some time,but
come on,most on here have seen other players games and have realised it doesn't happen
too often.
As ive said before I have been on a few forum meets,and I havnt seen a longest drive over 300 yet.

Click to expand...

I have no issue with 300yd drives, 300yd carries are another thing altogether. When Daveyboy said he hit a 500yd par 5 in two with driver 6i I thought nothing of it, it's doable with the right conditions. When he said the course was soggy and drives were stopping like wedges I start to become a bit cynical. however, as I said if he did he did, but they are quite unbelievable distances to hit a golf ball in the air.


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## Region3 (Oct 28, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



*I'm not saying you don't hit it that far*, they are just very long distances for a club golfer and are *in my opinion unbelievable*, total distance maybe but carry? When people start quoting carry distances further than half the PGA tour get in total distance, I become a bit of a cynic. However, if you do you do and good luck to you.
		
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Seems like a bit of a contradiction. Not calling him a liar but you don't believe him?


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## Region3 (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Oh well winter will be in full flow soon and we will have to deal with the distances the shorter players have during there summer :rofl:
		
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Ooooohhhhhh, I was on your side until you took a pop at the short hitters!!


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 28, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Seems like a bit of a contradiction. Not calling him a liar but you don't believe him?
		
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You forgot to highlight the last part of the sentence which is quite important if you want context. I find it hard to believe he can carry a drive 300yards, not that he can hit one that far. Still, what I think is irrelevent, not even sure why I bothered replying TBH. I don't really care how far he or anyone else hits it.


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## Region3 (Oct 28, 2013)

HawkeyeMS said:



			You forgot to highlight the last part of the sentence which is quite important if you want context. I find it hard to believe he can carry a drive 300yards, not that he can hit one that far. Still, what I think is irrelevent, not even sure why I bothered replying TBH. I don't really care how far he or anyone else hits it.
		
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Nobody should care how far anybody else hits a golf ball, and everybody's opinion is relevant to a discussion imo.

I didn't forget to highlight another part as I thought I'd made bold the bits that confused me.
If I misunderstood or took anything out of context then I apologise.


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## JamesR (Oct 28, 2013)

I'd say that in my experience  "better" players hit the ball further on average, maybe because they normally hit the ball from the middle more often (out of the screws as it were).
I've known single figure players who struggle to reach 230 off the tee, and have played with high teen handicappers who can knock it past me. But on average me, and the other lower players that I know, hit it further than those higher than us.

If that is what normally happens it still doesn't mean we shouldn't believe it when someone does differently. We've all massively under & over hit shots, and not been fully able to explain it. So much goes into a golf shot that if you change a few variables the end results can change hugely. Wind, slope, strike, power, humidity, altitude, adrenalin are just a few of the things that can make a difference.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 28, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Persimmon driver and a ball made of sponge..... they were the days!
		
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'Lack' of distance didn't stop him being one of the best golfers ever.


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## el marko (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			So Hawkeye... Is the S3 wrong or am I lieing? Why would it be unbelievable really? A 298 yard drive is unbelievable LOL maybe 350+ yes but 298 really? And a 200 yard 6 iron??? I would use my 6 iron for anything from 175-185 normally so is 15 yards extra with some wind truly unbelievable. The wind didn't suit my shot shape but it gave me 15 yards. If it had of landed on a summer fairway it could of rolled out up to 220 yards, would I be hung for quoting a 220 yard 6 iron?

This forum makes me laugh when I comes to distance threads.
		
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JUst curious, but why do you play regular shafts in your irons?


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## El Bandito (Oct 28, 2013)

My observation is that the low handicappers at my place tend to drive about the same as me....just they have fairway wood/hybrid/iron in hand at the time...that said, I play with a 25+ handicapper who almost certainly averages further with his 6 iron than his driver because of consistency.


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## woody69 (Oct 28, 2013)

I'm more impressed with the 200 yard 6 iron than the 300 yd drive. I couldn't dream of hitting my 6 iron that sort of distance. Very jealous!


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## El Bandito (Oct 28, 2013)

woody69 said:



			I'm more impressed with the 200 yard 6 iron than the 300 yd drive. I couldn't dream of hitting my 6 iron that sort of distance. Very jealous!
		
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Me too. Usually not unhappy if the drive goes 200 down the middle!


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## Lump (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Yep that sounds like a normal 6 iron spec... Not trying to sound strong just stating that a high handicap player can have decent distance. I accidently carried an 8 iron with the wind 190 yards and over the back of a green a few weeks back. Does that mean I use my 8 iron for the next 190 yard shot I have? Defiantly not. 

Oh well winter will be in full flow soon and we will have to deal with the distances the shorter players have during there summer :rofl:
		
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Cranked lofts on the burner though 

Your 6 is actually more like a 5 iron, which makes the distance much more believable


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## bluewolf (Oct 28, 2013)

Slab said:



			Worse still if you follow your 300 & 260 and hit the next one OOB or lost, your average driving distance is now 186 yards !
		
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Aaarrgghhhh!!!

Does anyone on here, or in the golfing world in general, use their duffs/tops/sha$Â£s to calculate their average distances? I don't stand on the tee on our 150 yd 17th and think - "This looks like a nice 8 iron, but my last 4 8 irons have been 145, 147, 23 and 153.. So that averages out at 117.....Best take my 5 iron then...."   If anyone does use their bad shots, then how does that work? Serious question this time...
Oh, and Daveyboy. I believe you. I hit our 480 yd 7th hole with Driver, 6 iron last week. The 6 iron travelled a total of 210yds but with quite a bit of roll out. The next time I used the 6 iron, it travelled a total of 170 yds... Strange game sometimes...


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## patricks148 (Oct 28, 2013)

220 yards with a 6 iron... you girl, i can hit my 9 iron 217 yards.......










Thin and on a frozen rock hard Fairway, downwind


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## bluewolf (Oct 28, 2013)

patricks148 said:



			220 yards with a 6 iron... you girl, i can hit my 9 iron 217 yards.......










Thin and on a frozen rock hard Fairway, downwind

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Don't forget downhill as well mate... Seriously downhill....


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## Lump (Oct 28, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Aaarrgghhhh!!!

Does anyone on here, or in the golfing world in general, use their duffs/tops/sha$Â£s to calculate their average distances? I don't stand on the tee on our 150 yd 17th and think - "This looks like a nice 8 iron, but my last 4 8 irons have been 145, 147, 23 and 153.. So that averages out at 117.....Best take my 5 iron then...."   If anyone does use their bad shots, then how does that work? Serious question this time...
Oh, and Daveyboy. I believe you. I hit our 480 yd 7th hole with Driver, 6 iron last week. The 6 iron travelled a total of 210yds but with quite a bit of roll out. The next time I used the 6 iron, it travelled a total of 170 yds... Strange game sometimes...
		
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Your 6 iron is again a 5 iron in drag....


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## JamesR (Oct 28, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Aaarrgghhhh!!!

Does anyone on here, or in the golfing world in general, use their duffs/tops/sha$Â£s to calculate their average distances? I don't stand on the tee on our 150 yd 17th and think - "This looks like a nice 8 iron, but my last 4 8 irons have been 145, 147, 23 and 153.. So that averages out at 117.....Best take my 5 iron then...."   If anyone does use their bad shots, then how does that work? Serious question this time...
		
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I don't include total mis-hits, what's the point, they aren't your average shot.


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## El Bandito (Oct 28, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Aaarrgghhhh!!!

Does anyone on here, or in the golfing world in general, use their duffs/tops/sha$Â£s to calculate their average distances? I don't stand on the tee on our 150 yd 17th and think - "This looks like a nice 8 iron, but my last 4 8 irons have been 145, 147, 23 and 153.. So that averages out at 117.....Best take my 5 iron then...."   If anyone does use their bad shots, then how does that work? Serious question this time...
Oh, and Daveyboy. I believe you. I hit our 480 yd 7th hole with Driver, 6 iron last week. The 6 iron travelled a total of 210yds but with quite a bit of roll out. The next time I used the 6 iron, it travelled a total of 170 yds... Strange game sometimes...
		
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Might go better for me if I did think that way! Power putt with a five iron. Might work.....:swing:


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## patricks148 (Oct 28, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Don't forget downhill as well mate... Seriously downhill....

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Funny enough it wasn't downhill, i couldn't feel 3 fingers on my right hand for a week though


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 28, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Ooooohhhhhh, I was on your side until you took a pop at the short hitters!! 

Click to expand...

Ha Ha 

Hawkeye I didn't say the drive I hit 298 stopped like a wedge as I'm sure it must have had some roll or bounce and a few extra yards from the wind. I also hit a few other very good drives on the day but they only measured 270-280 and I'd expect them to be much further on a summer fairway. Not every fairway is the same. Some where very wet and the ball was just stopping dead. The 6 iron on the other hand was all carry as it was next to its huge pitch-mark. And like others have highlighted my 6 iron is 27 degrees. I'm not trying to blag anyone I'm just stating the facts. 

Would my distances be more believable if I was off lets say 13?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 28, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Aaarrgghhhh!!!

Does anyone on here, or in the golfing world in general, use their duffs/tops/sha$Â£s to calculate their average distances?
		
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...though if you stood there with a 5i and 10 balls and wellied each of them as hard as you could - topped, fluffed etc etc all but  one decent one which went 220yds - what would you say the average of your 10 was 

Actually you need a representative sample before you can work out *any *statistic - otherwise your result is statistically unrepresentative. 

Truth is that statistically we will every so often follow our Sunday best drive with our Sunday best second shot - problem is that both are statistically low probability (by definition) - and hence the probability of the two will be low x low - but we can still all do it.  But I'd say that on a par 4 our Sunday best + Sunday best plus Sunday best putts is our 3sigma combination so we will only do it about 0.3% of the time (which is not that often).


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## HawkeyeMS (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Ha Ha 

Hawkeye I didn't say the drive I hit 298 stopped like a wedge as I'm sure it must have had some roll or bounce and a few extra yards from the wind. I also hit a few other very good drives on the day but they only measured 270-280 and I'd expect them to be much further on a summer fairway. Not every fairway is the same. Some where very wet and the ball was just stopping dead. The 6 iron on the other hand was all carry as it was next to its huge pitch-mark. And like others have highlighted my 6 iron is 27 degrees. I'm not trying to blag anyone I'm just stating the facts. 

Would my distances be more believable if I was off lets say 13?
		
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In that case I must have mis-interpreted this from post #68...




			Lol still hit some belters into the wind. I didn't enjoying the soggy fairways though, Drives where stopping like wedge shots.
		
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...and if I did, I apologise. I have no issue with 300 yard drives downwind, it's 300 yard carries I raise eyebrows at but as I said, I may have mis-interpreted. Your handicap is irrelevant by the way, I'd be cynical about 300yd carries from most amateur golfers.


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## mab (Oct 28, 2013)

It is ridiculous to think a high handicapper can't average 260yd drives.

It is not ridiculous to think that high handicappers generally don't average 260yd drives AND hit a large percentage of fairways; of course this can happen, but it would be very rare.

Just like short game improvement is generally the route for a 12 to get down to 6, whereas in my case it is driving that lets me down terriblly.  Whilst it is generally true, it's not always...


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 28, 2013)

But I feel more comfortable with a driver in my hand than a putter, we all have strong areas of our game and tee shots with driver are my strong point.


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## woody69 (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			But I feel more comfortable with a driver in my hand than a putter, we all have strong areas of our game and tee shots with driver are my strong point.
		
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Have you tried putting with your driver then? Could get some decent results!


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## bluewolf (Oct 28, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...though if you stood there with a 5i and 10 balls and wellied each of them as hard as you could - topped, fluffed etc etc all but  one decent one which went 220yds - what would you say the average of your 10 was 

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If I only hit one decent shot with a 5 iron I wouldn't be thinking about average distances. I'd be thinking about getting the Dive gear out of the attic and starting Diving again...

With regards to our Sunday best shots, I agree. My 6 iron into the par 5 green was actually meant as a lay up to 40 yds. I work on an "average" of 170 with my 30 degree 6 iron. This one just came straight out of the hotspot and rolled onto the front of the green. I was as surprised as anyone. I have hit the driver out to some decent distances on occasion, but I'm very happy with 240-250yds. That's what I work on when planning the hole. Any further than that and it's actually a blip. 

I'm more than happy with my distances. I'm fairly tall (6ft 3) and have a sporting background. There are plenty who hit it past me on here (That I've played with). :thup:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			But I feel more comfortable with a driver in my hand than a putter, we all have strong areas of our game and tee shots with driver are my strong point.
		
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Daveyboy - no need to go all defensive - we know as well as you do that some part(s) of your game are relatively rubbish compared with your driving.  Enjoy your driving - and build on it.  But don't depend upon it because one day you will be standing there on the first tee watching you hitherto impeccable driving sweetly deliver a tee shot 250yds the wrong way into stuff from where you have not had to extricate yourself from before.   

And you will wonder what happened there?  And 18 holes later you will wonder what on earth has happened to your driving - as it has all gone wrong - vanished as if you had never smote a mighty blow far into the heart of a fairway.  And it might come back - and it might not.  But fortunately you had fixed the roof while the sun shone and the rest of your game is tickety-boo and easily compensates for a bit less control or distance off of the tee.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 28, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Daveyboy - no need to go all defensive - we know as well as you do that some part(s) of your game are relatively rubbish compared with your driving.  Enjoy your driving - and build on it.  But don't depend upon it because one day you will be standing there on the first tee watching you hitherto impeccable driving sweetly deliver a tee shot 250yds the wrong way into stuff from where you have not had to extricate yourself from before.   

And you will wonder what happened there?  And 18 holes later you will wonder what on earth has happened to your driving - as it has all gone wrong - vanished as if you had never smote a mighty blow far into the heart of a fairway.  And it might come back - and it might not.  But fortunately you had fixed the roof while the sun shone and the rest of your game is tickety-boo and easily compensates for a bit less control or distance off of the tee.
		
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Mate believe me I do have bad days where a nasty hook rears its head but after sending some photos to JO (James) he pointed out a few flaws at the top of my swing and pointed out the direction my shoulders where aiming and hey-presto the very small changes have worked miracles. So James let that head grow my son :thup:

The only thing I am trying to point out is that high handicap players can hit the ball as far as a lower handicap player.  Both me and my playing partner can hit very long shots aswell as Hovis (Forum member) who up until recently also played off 17.


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## rksquire (Oct 28, 2013)

This is an excellent question, and after reading through 12 pages the answers actually give the answer.

Justone hit on it early on with â€˜my willie is biggerâ€™ comment, because distance (length!) is king.  Sure, it wonâ€™t necessarily win you competitions, or get you a low handicap, but it will get you admiring glances and pats on the back.  Whilst putting wins you the hole, the back slapping you get from holing out from 25ft is not the same as the back slapping from an enormous drive down the middle of the fairway â€“ either in the way its given or recieved.
So, to the original question â€“ itâ€™s a subconscious jealousy thing.  Somebody mentioned a scratch golfer with 235 yard drives.  Why doesnâ€™t he believe a 15HC can drive 300yards? Loads of reasons â€“ but it boils down to the same thing.  Imagine if that scratch golfer could hit the ball 300 yards, and keep it in play?  How much would that improve his game?  Why, that person, might just be a pro.  And that hurts.

Or maybe, more reasonably (subconsciously), because they are a 15HC, thereâ€™s no way they have the skillset to be able to do that....


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 28, 2013)

rksquire said:



			This is an excellent question, and after reading through 12 pages the answers actually give the answer.

Justone hit on it early on with â€˜my willie is biggerâ€™ comment, because distance (length!) is king.  Sure, it wonâ€™t necessarily win you competitions, or get you a low handicap, but it will get you admiring glances and pats on the back.  Whilst putting wins you the hole, the back slapping you get from holing out from 25ft is not the same as the back slapping from an enormous drive down the middle of the fairway â€“ either in the way its given or recieved.
So, to the original question â€“ itâ€™s a subconscious jealousy thing.  Somebody mentioned a scratch golfer with 235 yard drives.  Why doesnâ€™t he believe a 15HC can drive 300yards? Loads of reasons â€“ but it boils down to the same thing.  Imagine if that scratch golfer could hit the ball 300 yards, and keep it in play?  How much would that improve his game?  Why, that person, might just be a pro.  And that hurts.

Or maybe, more reasonably (subconsciously), because they are a 15HC, thereâ€™s no way they have the skillset to be able to do that....
		
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Ha Ha they are going to hang you :clap:


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## hovis (Oct 28, 2013)

Daveboy quotes are not unreal. Remember his 6 iron is 1 degree off my 4 iron (i play i20's) and he does hit a mean drive as I have personly witnessed. He also has no wish to brag and penis measure on a forum.  So, for one I believe him 100%. His friend mark hits it further though :temper:


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## Linnets (Oct 28, 2013)

Reading through this thread really has me thinking I'm an under achiever  I'm the definition of a high handicapper but I only hit it 190-200 yards with my driver....lots of work needed it seems.


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## hovis (Oct 28, 2013)

rksquire said:



			This is an excellent question, and after reading through 12 pages the answers actually give the answer.

Justone hit on it early on with â€˜my willie is biggerâ€™ comment, because distance (length!) is king.  Sure, it wonâ€™t necessarily win you competitions, or get you a low handicap, but it will get you admiring glances and pats on the back.  Whilst putting wins you the hole, the back slapping you get from holing out from 25ft is not the same as the back slapping from an enormous drive down the middle of the fairway â€“ either in the way its given or recieved.
So, to the original question â€“ itâ€™s a subconscious jealousy thing.  Somebody mentioned a scratch golfer with 235 yard drives.  Why doesnâ€™t he believe a 15HC can drive 300yards? Loads of reasons â€“ but it boils down to the same thing.  Imagine if that scratch golfer could hit the ball 300 yards, and keep it in play?  How much would that improve his game?  Why, that person, might just be a pro.  And that hurts.

Or maybe, more reasonably (subconsciously), because they are a 15HC, thereâ€™s no way they have the skillset to be able to do that....
		
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I personly think having played with alot of golfers that people dont like being out driven! However, you just know when you've hit a massive drive and then stick your second in the pond the shorter hitting is thinking "ha ha"


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## hovis (Oct 28, 2013)

Linnets said:



			Reading through this thread really has me thinking I'm an under achiever  I'm the definition of a high handicapper but I only hit it 190-200 yards with my driver....lots of work needed it seems.
		
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clearly you dont use zero friction tee's


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 28, 2013)

hovis said:



			Daveboy quotes are not unreal. Remember his 6 iron is 1 degree off my 4 iron (i play i20's) and he does hit a mean drive as I have personly witnessed. He also has no wish to brag and penis measure on a forum.  So, for one I believe him 100%. His friend mark hits it further though :temper:
		
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I am not falling for that one again David :blah: :temper:

... and Mark has a reg shaft in his driver 

And my 6 iron is the same as your 5 iron I'll have you know 27 degrees!


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## hovis (Oct 28, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I am not falling for that one again David :blah: :temper:

... and Mark has a reg shaft in his driver 

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imagine how much further he'd be over you with the right shaft!!!!:lol:


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 28, 2013)

hovis said:



			imagine how much further he'd be over you with the right shaft!!!!:lol:
		
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The tables are turning between me and Mark... JO tips have given me a boost in yardage the past month or so.


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 28, 2013)

Now let's get out of this thread while we are still alive mate... If we tell folk Mark can hit a 300 yard drive with a reg shaft we will not make midnight :rofl:


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## williamalex1 (Oct 28, 2013)

Linnets said:



			Reading through this thread really has me thinking I'm an under achiever  I'm the definition of a high handicapper but I only hit it 190-200 yards with my driver....lots of work needed it seems.
		
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I hit about the same distance as yourself and manage to hit the fairway most times. Problem arises when par 4s are over 400yrds  I'm left with a pitch. making them a par 5 for me.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 29, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Mate believe me I do have bad days where a nasty hook rears its head but after sending some photos to JO (James) he pointed out a few flaws at the top of my swing and pointed out the direction my shoulders where aiming and hey-presto the very small changes have worked miracles. So James let that head grow my son :thup:

The only thing I am trying to point out is that high handicap players can hit the ball as far as a lower handicap player.  Both me and my playing partner can hit very long shots aswell as Hovis (Forum member) who up until recently also played off 17.
		
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Absolutely - I completely agree - and was supportive of you in my previous post - even though your par 5 achievements might have caused raised eyebrows - including mine.  But you are 17 handicap - and it just so happens you have got your swing right off the tee and are able to give it a sweet belt.  And every so often we catch an iron sweet also and off it goes.  All I am suggesting is you don't get to relying on it too much - because as other parts of your game improve your driving will go off the boil - it just will.  That's the mysterious and enfeebling nature of golf - but you know that.  Target of 13h/cap for you next yr?  Sounds achievable for you.:thup:


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## JamesR (Oct 29, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...All I am suggesting is you don't get to relying on it too much - because as other parts of your game improve your driving will go off the boil - it just will...
		
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Does it?

Why?


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 29, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Absolutely - I completely agree - and was supportive of you in my previous post - even though your par 5 achievements might have caused raised eyebrows - including mine.  But you are 17 handicap - and it just so happens you have got your swing right off the tee and are able to give it a sweet belt.  And every so often we catch an iron sweet also and off it goes.  All I am suggesting is you don't get to relying on it too much - because as other parts of your game improve your driving will go off the boil - it just will.  That's the mysterious and enfeebling nature of golf - but you know that.  Target of 13h/cap for you next yr?  Sounds achievable for you.:thup:
		
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I have set 12 as my target for next year, 17 is my very first handicap and I've only played 4 comps with 33 points being my worst score.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 29, 2013)

Gil_Emott said:



			Does it?

Why?
		
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Because it can - and will.  It is just so...unfortunately.

I'm not saying it won;t come back - but it will go off the boil at some point.  Just when the hitherto weaknesses of your game seem to get sorted your strengths go awol - tell me it ain't so.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 29, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I have set 12 as my target for next year, 17 is my very first handicap and I've only played 4 comps with 33 points being my worst score.
		
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If 17 is your first handicap and you have only played 4 comps then I fear that you will struggle to get to 12.  I'm not being negative but given your circumstances a 12 handicap is a MASSIVE leap forward.  I'd maybe aim for 15


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## DAVEYBOY (Oct 29, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If 17 is your first handicap and you have only played 4 comps then I fear that you will struggle to get to 12.  I'm not being negative but given your circumstances a 12 handicap is a MASSIVE leap forward.  I'd maybe aim for 15 

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You may be right who knows. The week after I completed my final handicap card I shot a 83 with two yes two 7's on the card. So that would have started me on 11 with that card alone. We will see I have shot loads of rounds in the 38-42 point zone in practice. I hope to hit 14 at least.


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## londonlewis (Oct 30, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Why is there such a prejudice about the higher handicap you are the shorter you should hit the ball?

If a typical 12hc came to you and asked for advice on how he can get to 6, is the right answer.....

1) Hit the ball 30yds further
2) improve your short game

I'm guessing most would answer 2.

So if a 6hc can hit the ball 260 (or whatever) and he's lowered his handicap by taking less shots around the green, why can't a 12hc hit the ball 260 without being called a liar?

I believe it's mostly the low hc's think it's a slur on their masculinity to suggest that a worse overall golfer can hit the ball as far or further than they do.

Any other theories?
		
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It's not about distance, it's about distance control.


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## Region3 (Oct 30, 2013)

londonlewis said:



			It's not about distance, it's about distance control.
		
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Correct, but that isn't what was asked.

Doesn't matter, I gave up long ago.


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## londonlewis (Oct 30, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Correct, but that isn't what was asked.

Doesn't matter, I gave up long ago.
		
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It would be my response to any players that could outdrive me but had a higher handicap. Although I don't see how that could be possible as I drive the ball 700 yards. That's my biggest issue, having to take extra shots to get back to the green.


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## lyden (Oct 30, 2013)

I think you have to be careful about saying club golfers can't compare to pros, I was winning our captains day longest drive comp with 305 yards and lost out to a 327 yard drive from a 5 handicapper, flat summer fairway no wind. His is recorded on our club website for all to see.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			You may be right who knows. The week after I completed my final handicap card I shot a 83 with two yes two 7's on the card. So that would have started me on 11 with that card alone. We will see I have shot loads of rounds in the 38-42 point zone in practice. I hope to hit 14 at least.
		
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Don't expect anyone to be surprised that you had two sevens when you shot a pretty good round - believe me - if that's as bad as it got you were lucky (yes lucky I am afraid).  I still regularly record at least one 7 or 8 on medal cards - that's how it goes. Occasionally I don't and then I have a good score.  But I wouldn't start thinking that you'll soon be able to regularly put in medal cards that don't have at least one 7+ and that once you've got rid of these pesky blunders that'll be them gone and you'll be off 11 before you know it.  You might - good luck -


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## garyinderry (Oct 31, 2013)

I am not a fan of the phrase, '' played to x handicap'' .


there is a big difference between shooting a certain medal score and playing off that handicap.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Don't expect anyone to be surprised that you had two sevens when you shot a pretty good round - believe me - if that's as bad as it got you were lucky (yes lucky I am afraid).  I still regularly record at least one 7 or 8 on medal cards - that's how it goes. Occasionally I don't and then I have a good score.  But I wouldn't start thinking that you'll soon be able to regularly put in medal cards that don't have at least one 7+ and that once you've got rid of these pesky blunders that'll be them gone and you'll be off 11 before you know it.  You might - good luck - 

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And as if to prove my theory I knocked it round in 12 over (2 over handicap) yesterday - including a 6 and a 7 on a couple of par 4s.  Even accepting I got shots on both holes I'm not going to pretend I'm almost a 7 handicapper - more's the pity - that's for next season.


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