# Britain is overweight.



## stefanovic (Dec 5, 2021)

64% of people now considered to be overweight or obese.
PM is obsessed with the problem and blames it for the severity of his Covid infection.
A friend reported to me that she was concerned. I asked her to check her BMI and it came back as 32 (obese).
Strange thing about this I didn't notice she had a problem, a bit like fat being the new thin.

So what do we know?
Food is too easily available. We don't have to go far to find plenty of it.
Commercial diets don't work. As soon as you come off them the weight returns.
Similarly, exercise does not take weight off you for long. 
If calories in are greater than calories out, you put on weight, and vice versa.

I was brought up austerity Britain when hardly anyone was overweight.
One or two main meals a week was normal. 
The rest was pretty unspeakable!


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## Slime (Dec 5, 2021)

Eat 10% less, exercise 10% more ......................... and 10% is not a huge amount.


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## Imurg (Dec 5, 2021)

Slime said:



			.................... and 10% is not a huge amount.
		
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Says who?


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## SocketRocket (Dec 5, 2021)

BMI is a questionable way of measuring a person's obesity.


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## Beedee (Dec 5, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			BMI is a questionable way of measuring a person's obesity.
		
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It's not that bad.  For every body builder / international rugby player / olympian with a "high" BMI there are many many hundreds of fat people.  And I say this as someone whose BMI proves that I'm far far too short.


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## Imurg (Dec 5, 2021)

I'm big-boned...........


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## SocketRocket (Dec 5, 2021)

Beedee said:



			It's not that bad.  For every body builder / international rugby player / olympian with a "high" BMI there are many many hundreds of fat people.  And I say this as someone whose BMI proves that I'm far far too short.
		
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I'm not convinced it's possible to have a one fits all scale when you consider the different body makeup of humans.  I'm 6ft tall and my ideal BMI puts me at around 11 stone, I'm around 14 stone and in no way an Olympian, international rugby player or body builder, I'm also not obese or even what could be considered overweight, if I was 11 stone I'd look emaciated .   I understand your point but for me BMI is not good.


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## IanM (Dec 5, 2021)

Most of the western world is over weight...

Is the OP referring to post war rationing?


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## JamesR (Dec 5, 2021)

Balance is what’s important, when it comes to food.
Eat some of everything and you will be fine. 

Also, booze is more of an issue, with a lot of folk, than food.


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## Hobbit (Dec 5, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Balance is what’s important, when it comes to food.
Eat some of everything and you will be fine.

Also, booze is more of an issue, with a lot of folk, than food.
		
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After being diagnosed with diabetes late July I dropped alcohol completely for 3 months. I also kept an eye on portion sizes. Now 2 stone lighter.


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## JamesR (Dec 5, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			After being diagnosed with diabetes late July I dropped alcohol completely for 3 months. I also kept an eye on portion sizes. Now 2 stone lighter.
		
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Good work Brian 👌
I know so many people who diet and worry about fat, carb etc input. But love a night on the beer, and don’t associate it with weight gain.
It’s incredible that they don’t put two and two together.
I call it the hop soup diet.


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## Dando (Dec 5, 2021)

Imurg said:



			Says who?
View attachment 39809

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Washed down with a Diet Coke no doubt


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 5, 2021)

Don't really see what the purpose of this thread is.


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 5, 2021)

Ignorance and/or a lack of the necessary strength of will to resist temptation are the cause.
Obesity is the symptom.

Sometimes there are more complications than this, however. Mental health can be a much larger issue.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 5, 2021)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Don't really see what the purpose of this thread is.
		
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the first sentence of the first post sums it up.
Quote,
64% of people now considered to be overweight or obese.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 5, 2021)

Tashyboy said:



			the first sentence of the first post sums it up.
Quote,
64% of people now considered to be overweight or obese.
		
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According to what?
The fittest guy I new was considered overweight according to BMI charts, yet his resting heart rate was under 50, he didn't smoke or drink, could ride a mountain bike at full effort for hours yet the "charts" said he was overweight.


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## Swinglowandslow (Dec 5, 2021)

I am well into old age. Anyone over 60 looking back to their youth , and the weight of their peers and parents - who now see the people of today , is under no illusion that this country is overweight.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 5, 2021)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I am well into old age. Anyone over 60 looking back to their youth , and the weight of their peers and parents - who now see the people of today , is under no illusion that this country is overweight.
		
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You only have to view cine footage of folks going about their business in towns and cities shot in the 50s and 60s, even the 70s, to see the change.


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## IanM (Dec 5, 2021)

I remember there were 30 boys in my first year class at secondary school... I  remember we had two kids who were clearly over weight.   Everyone else was roughly ok...

I wonder what that % would be now?


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## IanM (Dec 5, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You only have to view cine footage of folks going about their business in towns and cities shot in the 50s and 60s, even the 70s, to see the change.
		
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Look at the 1960s footage of the PGA Tour galleries!


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## BiMGuy (Dec 5, 2021)

Yep, we are a nation of fatties. 

Being a 6ft 18st rugby player or body builder isn’t necessary healthy. That body type can put quite a lot of strain on the heart. It’s probably better than being an 18st lard arse.


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## pendodave (Dec 5, 2021)

IanM said:



			I remember there were 30 boys in my first year class at secondary school... I  remember we had two kids who were clearly over weight.   Everyone else was roughly ok...

I wonder what that % would be now?
		
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I was born in 64, and can remember a couple of overweight kids in a whole school year. 
The normalisation of being overweight and unfit is pervasive in the UK. We have significant issues currently trying to care for a generation that were mostly healthy. I genuinely can't get my head around how society is going to provide care for the army of the currently unhealthy.


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## IanM (Dec 5, 2021)

September 1975 for me


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2021)

We have to weight patients upon admission and some are scarily big.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 6, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We have to weight patients upon admission and some are scarily big.
		
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He financial strain on society due to paying for people with care needs is now well documented. However I think the further financial strain of overweight people on the NHS and councils etc has not yet been calculated. It could be monstrous. Out local councillors are going mental because they listen to the fact that we are a national of fatties yet the local councillors keep passing planning consent for more fast food outlets “ because it creates Employment”.


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## Paperboy (Dec 6, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Good work Brian 👌
I know so many people who diet and worry about fat, carb etc input. But love a night on the beer, and don’t associate it with weight gain.
It’s incredible that they don’t put two and two together.
I call it the hop soup diet.
		
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My trainer at the gym saw from my food diary that I like a beer every now and again. He said have a few beers but if going out for the evening to drink white spirits with a diet/slimline tonic. So after a few beers, I go on to gin and tonic.
I've been going to the gym for 5 months, eating a lot healthier and drinking less when I go out. Dropped 2 stone so far and hopefully that's just the beginning.


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## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2021)

There are a few problems which I don't see going away unfortunately. 

One: Nobody should be fat-shamed, especially if they are trying to do something about it. But there is a culture going too far the other way now, saying things like big is beautiful and all body types are healthy which I don't think is right. But it sort of gets lumped in with the whole motion of people identifying as whatever they want to be - and I don't think it's right because the health aspect gets overlooked. If you're fat and happy to be fat then that's fine but don't be under any illusions that it's healthy.

Two: Healthy food seems to be vastly more expensive, or perhaps more accurately, unhealthy food is so much cheaper. For the price of knocking together one salad you can buy a bag of frozen chips and frozen chicken nuggets that'll make 10 meals. Unless that ever changes you'll always have people surviving on unhealthy diets.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 6, 2021)

IanM said:



			Look at the 1960s footage of the PGA Tour galleries!
		
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Recently been watching a bit of 1970s and early 80s Pro Celeb golf from Turnberry and Gleneagles…and wow…Scots were real skinnymalinks back then.  

btw…The golf is quite fun as well, and loving Trevino’s shot making if not quite so much his banter, but at least his banter is less excruciating than that of some others (oh dear Brucie…you really did love yourself and the sound of your voice rather much….🥰)


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## JamesR (Dec 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			There are a few problems which I don't see going away unfortunately.

One: Nobody should be fat-shamed, especially if they are trying to do something about it. But there is a culture going too far the other way now, saying things like big is beautiful and all body types are healthy which I don't think is right. But it sort of gets lumped in with the whole motion of people identifying as whatever they want to be - and I don't think it's right because the health aspect gets overlooked. If you're fat and happy to be fat then that's fine but don't be under any illusions that it's healthy.

Two: Healthy food seems to be vastly more expensive, or perhaps more accurately, unhealthy food is so much cheaper. For the price of knocking together one salad you can buy a bag of frozen chips and frozen chicken nuggets that'll make 10 meals. Unless that ever changes you'll always have people surviving on unhealthy diets.
		
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Out of interest, if you go to a cheap supermarket (Lidl/Aldi etc), how much is a bag of spuds, a few carrots or other veg?


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## Bdill93 (Dec 6, 2021)

But chocolate though........


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## IanM (Dec 6, 2021)

Healthy food seems to be vastly more expensive, or perhaps more accurately, unhealthy food is so much cheaper. For the price of knocking together one salad you can buy a bag of frozen chips and frozen chicken nuggets that'll make 10 meals. Unless that ever changes you'll always have people surviving on unhealthy diets.[/QUOTE]

Really?  Vegetables,  mince, chicken is miles cheaper than processed rubbish/KFC/McDs.   Ah, but that needs cooking and prep and Gogglebox is on. (As demo'd in Oliver's series )


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## Bdill93 (Dec 6, 2021)

IanM said:



			Healthy food seems to be vastly more expensive, or perhaps more accurately, unhealthy food is so much cheaper. For the price of knocking together one salad you can buy a bag of frozen chips and frozen chicken nuggets that'll make 10 meals. Unless that ever changes you'll always have people surviving on unhealthy diets.
		
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Really?  Vegetables,  mince, chicken is miles cheaper than processed rubbish/KFC/McDs.   Ah, but that needs cooking and prep and Gogglebox is on. (As demo'd in Oliver's series )[/QUOTE]

Apple snack pots are £1 in tesco. 
4 cadbury choccy bars for £1

I know which I'm choosing


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 6, 2021)

Double Big Mac meal inc fries and drink…£5.69…get in there…🙁


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## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Out of interest, if you go to a cheap supermarket (Lidl/Aldi etc), how much is a bag of spuds, a few carrots or other veg?
		
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'A few carrots and spuds' isn't a meal is it? You'd want to pair that with a fresh chicken breast, or salmon, etc if you were making something. I'm saying for poor families with kids there's too much incentive to buy frozen oven food in bulk as it's much more cost-effective.


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## Orikoru (Dec 6, 2021)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Double Big Mac meal inc fries and drink…£5.69…get in there…🙁
		
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As opposed to the salad-based takeaway 'Tossed' where a salad costs £8.


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## Tashyboy (Dec 6, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Out of interest, if you go to a cheap supermarket (Lidl/Aldi etc), how much is a bag of spuds, a few carrots or other veg?
		
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  Cheap, very cheap.


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## bobmac (Dec 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			'A few carrots and spuds' isn't a meal is it? You'd want to pair that with a fresh chicken breast, or salmon, etc if you were making something. I'm saying for poor families with kids there's too much incentive to buy frozen oven food in bulk as it's much more cost-effective.
		
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Convenient yes, cost effective, I don't think so, especially from take aways


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## stefanovic (Dec 6, 2021)

In this age of indulgence, what would happen to the economy if we all went on a diet?
Food, agriculture and hospitality would suffer the most.
It's all a conspiracy to keep the economy going, yet we'd be healthier.

I think you'd have to be a certain age like me to compare what people were eating post war and what they indulge in now.
Most food was locally produced and sold at markets. That trickled down to grocers, greengrocers, fishmongers, butchers.
There were no supermarkets. You were most likely to walk to the shops with bags to fill and walk home again.
Walking with weight bearing on bones and muscles has been proved to be good for you, but you hardly ever see it today.
It's not rocket science!


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## IanM (Dec 6, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			In this age of indulgence, what would happen to the economy if we all went on a diet?
Food, agriculture and hospitality would suffer the most!
		
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Your kidding, the "healthy trendy nonsense my sister eats costs a blooming fortune! 

I am sure the local farmers' market buy their carrots in Tesco, dunk them in some soil and label them "organic" at flog them to Giles and Miranda at 3 times the price!!


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## BiMGuy (Dec 6, 2021)

People say they don’t have time or fresh food is too expensive. No, they are just lazy, incompetent or both.

It is possible to cook good quality, healthy food cheaply and quickly. 

Eating cheap food doesn’t make you fat. Eating more calories than you use does.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			As opposed to the salad-based takeaway 'Tossed' where a salad costs £8. 

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Precisely…🙁


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## SatchFan (Dec 6, 2021)

I bought a 1kg bag of Imperfectly Tasty Carrots from Sainsbury's today for 30p. I assume they were imperfect because they weren't covered in chocolate or crispy batter.


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## Bdill93 (Dec 6, 2021)

Gousto is the way forward for dinners though


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## Rooter (Dec 6, 2021)

The issue is very complex and multi-faceted. A few points which are covered already I am sure, but add all of these up (and combine and any which way) you see why as a nation we are a mess, going to be a mess of a ranty post, but I am covering so many points!

#1 Education - people need to be taught how to
Meal Plan
Exercise
Basic Cooking /Home Economics
Make better choices

Fat is the new normal. It's almost glorified to be 'plus sized'
Cheap high sugar food is everywhere
people are fundamentally lazy (Exercise wise)
people are fundamentally lazy (Planning and cooking. Who writes a meal plan and sticks to it using healthier ingredients?)
Alcohol. As a nation, we have normalized and accepted binge/excessive drinking

It makes me so sad to see fat kids from fat parents, they don't stand a chance. The strain on the health service with secondary conditions triggered by obesity/bad diets.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Rooter said:



			The issue is very complex and multi-faceted. A few points which are covered already I am sure, but add all of these up (and combine and any which way) you see why as a nation we are a mess, going to be a mess of a ranty post, but I am covering so many points!

#1 Education - people need to be taught how to
Meal Plan
Exercise
Basic Cooking /Home Economics
Make better choices

Fat is the new normal. It's almost glorified to be 'plus sized'
Cheap high sugar food is everywhere
people are fundamentally lazy (Exercise wise)
people are fundamentally lazy (Planning and cooking. Who writes a meal plan and sticks to it using healthier ingredients?)
Alcohol. As a nation, we have normalized and accepted binge/excessive drinking

It makes me so sad to see fat kids from fat parents, they don't stand a chance. The strain on the health service with secondary conditions triggered by obesity/bad diets.
		
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Spot on and if we try and identify when these changes started creeping in we need to look at ourselves and our parents.

This hasn’t happened overnight!


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## Rooter (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			we need to look at ourselves and our parents.

This hasn’t happened overnight!
		
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This bit!

Now I am a bit of a health nut, but my kids diets are still pretty crap (worse than mine!) But its about balance, I am not trying to be all preachy here, they have something with chip and beans at least once a week, Friday night is Pizza night and they eat Mcdonalds, KFC, occasionally. BUT, they also get a really balanced lunch every day, a non-sugary (as best you can!!) Cereal every morning and plenty of veg etc at tea time, even if its hidden blitzed up into a sauce etc.

Pudding is now once a week, rather than every (other) day, yogurts, fruit etc all available any time,

They have biscuits and crisps etc still, just not as much as they want! It is controlled. I think a blanket ban on something will only create resentment and defiance and or anarchy


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## Hobbit (Dec 6, 2021)

On the issue of meal planning and fresh produce, lockdown has done me a favour as has the recent diagnosis. I now cook a lot. Curries and chilli is my speciality. Fresh meat, peppers etc. Wow!

They do stretch my willpower on portion size though.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

Sugar, both refined and in natural and processed carbohydrates (potatoes, pasta, bread etc.) is cheap unfortunately. And the prevalence seems to be involved in all sorts of nutritional health problems.

I don't think it's all bad parenting though. A lot of bad or inappropriate food education is caused by the lingering effects of poor marketing and nutrition advice from the 50's and 60's. Primarily I'm thinking along the lines of the message that "eating fat makes you fat" is now considered to have been terribly wrong.

"Low fat" foods are banned in my house, I don't want my daughter growing up with that rubbish frankly.

It's also worth saying that eating disorders go both ways. Larger people can be healthier than skinny people too.


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## Rooter (Dec 6, 2021)

"Low fat" also banned in my house Jim! 

One unwritten rule for me is:

If it has more than 5 ingredients and some of them you don't know what they are, you probably shouldn't eat it. (But I bet it would taste nice!)


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## stefanovic (Dec 6, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Fat is the new normal. It's almost glorified to be 'plus sized'
		
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It's crept up on us to the extent that thin people now stand out in the crowd.
First thing is to calculate your BMI, then your percentage body fat.
By being honest you might (should there be a problem) be on the way to a better life.
There is a correspondence between healthy weight and body fat, and happiness.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-weight/bmi-calculator/

https://www.calculator.net/body-fat-calculator.html


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Rooter said:



			This bit!

Now I am a bit of a health nut, but my kids diets are still pretty crap (worse than mine!) But its about balance, I am not trying to be all preachy here, they have something with chip and beans at least once a week, Friday night is Pizza night and they eat Mcdonalds, KFC, occasionally. BUT, they also get a really balanced lunch every day, a non-sugary (as best you can!!) Cereal every morning and plenty of veg etc at tea time, even if its hidden blitzed up into a sauce etc.

Pudding is now once a week, rather than every (other) day, yogurts, fruit etc all available any time,

They have biscuits and crisps etc still, just not as much as they want! It is controlled. I think a blanket ban on something will only create resentment and defiance and or anarchy
		
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Again I totally agree, but go back and read just about every post and try and find anyone taking any responsibility.
99% of the posts are judgemental and pointing the finger at everyone else, none of us are perfect we all make mistakes, but society changed, governments encouraged these changes, closed sports pitches, cut backs to community centres etc.

The Society and Culture we have today we’ve created and it needs to be handled the way you say.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

Rooter said:



			If it has more than 5 ingredients and some of them you don't know what they are, you probably shouldn't eat it. (But I bet it would taste nice!)
		
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I confess I eat rubbish and enjoy it on occasion. 😀

And I do eat sugary things, it’s the hidden sugars and pointlessly sweetened foods that bother me. It makes balance difficult to achieve and it’s just completely unnecessary.


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## Paperboy (Dec 6, 2021)

Something else to think about which is taught at my gym is 'It's okay to have bad days. It's how you deal with that bad day after it's happened.'.

Last month two nights out for friends birthdays. Felt bad even though I'd eaten as healthily as possible. My assigned trainer said, you've still got to have fun. It cant all be give and no take. 
That month I lost 5kg, so I know that as long as I'm sensible for majority of the time and only a few bad days then I'm probably going to be OK.


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## JamesR (Dec 6, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Something else to think about which is taught at my gym is 'It's okay to have bad days. It's how you deal with that bad day after it's happened.'.

Last month two nights out for friends birthdays. Felt bad even though I'd eaten as healthily as possible. My assigned trainer said, you've still got to have fun. It cant all be give and no take.
That month I lost 5kg, so I know that as long as I'm sensible for majority of the time and only a few bad days then I'm probably going to be OK.
		
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I go to a personal training gym. I know the PTs don't mind a "naughty day", as we all went out for their Xmas party last weekend, and everyone was very naughty indeed - the restaurant ran out of white wine, and had to replace vodka bottles mid-service.
I was expecting it to be a rather dry affair, but no, they really went for it, and I tried my best too


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## Paperboy (Dec 6, 2021)

JamesR said:



			I go to a personal training gym. I know the PTs don't mind a "naughty day", as we all went out for their Xmas party last weekend, and everyone was very naughty indeed - the restaurant ran out of white wine, and had to replace vodka bottles mid-service.
I was expecting it to be a rather dry affair, but no, they really went for it, and I tried my best too 

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Ours is the same type of gym, ours is on Saturday


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## JamesR (Dec 6, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Ours is the same type of gym, ours is on Saturday 

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Have fun 🍻


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Something else to think about which is taught at my gym is 'It's okay to have bad days. It's how you deal with that bad day after it's happened.'.

Last month two nights out for friends birthdays. Felt bad even though I'd eaten as healthily as possible. My assigned trainer said, you've still got to have fun. It cant all be give and no take.
That month I lost 5kg, so I know that as long as I'm sensible for majority of the time and only a few bad days then I'm probably going to be OK.
		
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What might help is changing your thought process when it comes to “bad” days, they’re not bad days, they are just days when you haven’t gone to the gym or eaten particular foods.

By the sounds of it you are doing great, but we punish ourselves or go on guilt trips when we relax a bit.

Ignore your bad or naughty or whatever negative phrase we use to describe them and focus on the positives, try to look over a period of weeks or months rather than a day.


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## Paperboy (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			What might help is changing your thought process when it comes to “bad” days, they’re not bad days, they are just days when you haven’t gone to the gym or eaten particular foods.

By the sounds of it you are doing great, but we punish ourselves or go on guilt trips when we relax a bit.

Ignore your bad or naughty or whatever negative phrase we use to describe them and focus on the positives, try to look over a period of weeks or months rather than a day.

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Yes that's what they try to instill in us. First time was a golf trip to Wales for 3 days, felt bad and said to my trainer and he said don't be stupid.  But it's hard when you feel as though your not doing what you feel you should be doing.


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## Rooter (Dec 6, 2021)

Someone I read a blog of and this stuck with me, Eat well for 5 days a week, relax a bit for 2. Go on Holiday? all bets are off, do what you want and work it off after. No one wants to work out the Macro's while on holiday!

The key is in relaxing "a bit", is not to go nuts, have some self-control. And I suppose the whole thing depends on your goals. But anything that is so strict and restricts certain things is not sustainable. Want some ice cream? have some, just don't eat it every day!

I am still working on finding the balance, I can go hard for 3 months and drop 10kg if I need/want to, but end it and I will stick it back on. I am working on finding a 'happy place'


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## stefanovic (Dec 6, 2021)

Rooter said:



			I am working on finding a 'happy place'
		
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You could try the 'NHS'. The Natural Health Service.
All you need is a good pair of walking boots, waterproofs and an O/S map to discover a network of rural paths in your area.
You will find peace without pace and it will help regulate your weight..
Even winter walking is great. Have you been watching the series on TV recently?


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## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			You could try the 'NHS'. The Natural Health Service.
All you need is a good pair of walking boots, waterproofs and an O/S map to discover a network of rural paths in your area.
You will find peace without pace and it will help regulate your weight..
Even winter walking is great. Have you been watching the series on TV recently?
		
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Psst. Rooter is probably one of the fittest people who post here. 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Yes that's what they try to instill in us. First time was a golf trip to Wales for 3 days, felt bad and said to my trainer and he said don't be stupid.  But it's hard when you feel as though your not doing what you feel you should be doing.
		
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The 3 days was a reward for your initial efforts, plan a treat or reward to keep you motivated and positive.👍🏻


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## DaveR (Dec 6, 2021)

Imurg said:



			I'm big-boned...........

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I'm not overweight I'm underheight 😇


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## DaveR (Dec 6, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			'A few carrots and spuds' isn't a meal is it? You'd want to pair that with a fresh chicken breast, or salmon, etc if you were making something. I'm saying for poor families with kids there's too much incentive to buy frozen oven food in bulk as it's much more cost-effective.
		
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It's a meal to a vegan.


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## Rooter (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Psst. Rooter is probably one of the fittest people who post here. 😂
		
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Oi Oi tiger!! lol 

And yeh, @stefanovic  my happy place I am trying to find is somewhere between 12 and 18% body fat, I am not sure the NHS would like my Ironman training plan....


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## Rooter (Dec 6, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			You could try the 'NHS'. The Natural Health Service.
All you need is a good pair of walking boots, waterproofs and an O/S map to discover a network of rural paths in your area.
You will find peace without pace and it will help regulate your weight..
Even winter walking is great. Have you been watching the series on TV recently?
		
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PS, that's me in my profile avatar having just run a 3hr 34 minute marathon.


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## pendodave (Dec 6, 2021)

While it's great to see the efforts being made here, the reality is that this just can't be extrapolated to the general population. We were thin in the 70s because food was expensive, there were very few takeaways and cheap sugar hadn't been invented. Literally the only thing that can work nowadays is rationing. We (the UK, not middle aged golfers) are doomed  .


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Psst. Rooter is probably one of the fittest people who post here. 😂
		
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Not my type, so I'll pass thanks!


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## Rooter (Dec 6, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Not my type, so I'll pass thanks! 

Click to expand...

your loss!! X


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2021)

I wonder what % of obese children have obese and or lazy parents, I bet it's quite high.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			I wonder what % of obese children have obese and or lazy parents, I bet it's quite high.
		
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Probably the same % that have obese and lazy grandparents and great grandparents.


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably the same % that have obese and lazy grandparents and great grandparents.
		
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So, someone to learn from?
Shame they didn't learn.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			So, someone to learn from?
Shame they didn't learn.
		
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Or take the easy option and make broad brush generalisation statements that mean absolutely zilch.


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 6, 2021)

Just eaten,

3-egg mushroom omelette, spud, baby plum tomatoes, bit of beetroot.
Tesco summer fruit mix (comes in a big bag for the freezer) and some plain yoghurt.

Fairly typical nosebag for me 'n 'er.
No meat, no wheat, no added sugar, very low fat. Other meals might contain all or some of these. We don't miss out. We are not "on a diet".

Planning on having one tipple of Bowmore later.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			Tesco summer fruit mix (comes in a big bag for the freezer) and some plain yoghurt.

Fairly typical nosebag for me 'n 'er.
No meat, no wheat, no sugar, very low fat. Other meals might contain all or some of these. We don't miss out. We are not "on a diet".
		
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No sugar? What’s the fruit?


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## pendodave (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or take the easy option and make broad brush generalisation statements that mean absolutely zilch.

Click to expand...

It's easy, cos it's what happens...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5463282/
To summarise "After adjusting for confounders, overweight and/or obesity in students of both genders was found to be significantly associated with parental overweight and/or obesity"
The question is if course, what's to be done. It's interesting to compare public health policy in this area to another which will probably cause far fewer quantity life years to be lost.


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			No sugar? What’s the fruit?
		
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edited, thanks though.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			I wonder what % of obese children have obese and or lazy parents, I bet it's quite high.
		
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I walk around Reading on the way home or Bracknell town centre and sadly you see large parents feeding their kids burgers, donuts or other crap. It's a self repeating cycle. The parents were probably brought up similarly on pizza, chips etc and so have got the same eating habits and this is what they are teaching the kids. The kids will do the same when they grow up. It is scary to see how many younger (20 and upwards) patients we get coming through the unit at work that are obese or morbidly obese and how many have diabetes as a co-morbidity. More than a ticking timebomb and something that will stretch the NHS in the next few years and beyond


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## Tashyboy (Dec 6, 2021)

A small story.

many years ago I worked in the medical centre at the pit. I developed food allergies. Something I have now grown out of. It turned out that one of the things I was allergic to was lactose or dairy products. anyway one day I ended up seeing a specialist. He went through my diet and showed me a book called E for numbers. It was a book that showed you what each particular E number was. But more importantly why it was used in the food and drink industry. He flicked through the book and I caught sight of one E number names. I asked him to find it again.The name was “ compound Benzoic Acid”. I asked him what it was used for. At that time it was predominantly used in the brewing industry, and still it. The Acid is used to kill any fungus that may grow in yeast ( an anti fungal). He asked me why. I told him we use it in the medical centre as a treatment for severe athletes foots, sponge foot, trench foot. It literally burns the skin off your feet.
Bottom line, what they use to treat your athletes feet, they use in the food and drink industry. Do we really know or care what crap we shovel down our throats. I would like to think that some do.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

pendodave said:



			It's easy, cos it's what happens...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5463282/
To summarise "After adjusting for confounders, overweight and/or obesity in students of both genders was found to be significantly associated with parental overweight and/or obesity"
The question is if course, what's to be done. It's interesting to compare public health policy in this area to another which will probably cause far fewer quantity life years to be lost.
		
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A study of kids in Iran, not too sure how they’d compare with UK kids for diet etc and access to fast food.

Not denying some parents of obese kids will be obese, but no link to them being lazy and stopping at the parents proves nothing.

This issue has risen over the last 50-60yrs and these lazy obese parents got their attitude to health and healthy eating from someone else.


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## Imurg (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Psst. Rooter is probably one of the fittest people who post here. 😂
		
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Well I don't fancy him....


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 6, 2021)

Rooter said:



			PS, that's me in my profile avatar having just run a 3hr 34 minute marathon. 

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That's nothing. I once did three marathons in one day. 

Obviously that was before they changed the name to Snickers.


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			No sugar? What’s the fruit?
		
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Voyager EMH said:



			edited, thanks though.
		
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As usual....It's not as simple as it might seem...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sucrose-glucose-fructose#limiting-your-intake


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 6, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			As usual....It's not as simple as it might seem...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sucrose-glucose-fructose#limiting-your-intake

Click to expand...

Just checked the sugar content on the small print of the bag of frozen fruit.
Did a calculation with regard to the portion eaten. I think I've just eaten 1.2g of sugar from the fruit.


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			Just checked the sugar content on the small print of the bag of frozen fruit.
Did a calculation with regard to the portion eaten. I think I've just eaten 1.2g of sugar from the fruit.
		
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But did it mention which sort?


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## pendodave (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A study of kids in Iran, not too sure how they’d compare with UK kids for diet etc and access to fast food.

Not denying some parents of obese kids will be obese, but no link to them being lazy and stopping at the parents proves nothing.

This issue has risen over the last 50-60yrs and these lazy obese parents got their attitude to health and healthy eating from someone else.
		
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https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2018/health-survey-reveals-association-between-parent-and-child-obesity
It's the same in the UK. Frankly, I'd be amazed if it was different anywhere.
I have to say, I merely observed that there was a link and that we are not really doing anything to break it. I certainly didn't use any pejorative language. Personally, I think it's a human tragedy. If there's one thing we can see from the thread, it's that losing weight is really hard and prevention is likely far more effective than cure.


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 6, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			But did it mention which sort?
		
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I've lost interest.
Tiny amount of Bowmore does that to me. Lovely feeling.


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## Foxholer (Dec 6, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			I've lost interest.
Tiny amount of Bowmore does that to me. Lovely feeling.
		
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Can feel slightly 'single dimension-ish' for me, but certainly gives a good feeling!
Try a Lagavulin for a slightly more 'rounded' taste.
Bowmore before evening meal; Lagavulin before retiring to bed approaches perfection!


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Or take the easy option and make broad brush generalisation statements that mean absolutely zilch.

Click to expand...

Such as?
I made absolutely no generalisations. 
You must have got my post confused with someone else's.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 6, 2021)

I'm no saint, not slim nor a healthy weight....but I'm happy and my mind is in a comfortable place.
I work in the very well heeled boroughs of London, and the difference is obvious. Those with money are the slim ones, those in the poorer boroughs aren't.

It's ok critising those who do eat the junk food or over-indulge, but how many on here have used the "Just Eats" of this World?.
We live in the "instant"time frame now, and thats something we all have to take responsiblity for.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			Such as?
I made absolutely no generalisations.
You must have got my post confused with someone else's.
		
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Can you prove the link between obese and lazy?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Anyone had much involvement in foodbanks?


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Can you prove the link between obese and lazy?
		
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No, that's why I asked the question.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Slime said:



			No, that's why I asked the question.
		
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Maybe you could revisit it then and add a question mark as I read it as a statement.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Anyone had much involvement in foodbanks?
		
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Tangentially. I’d like to talk about food poverty but can’t without it becoming political.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 6, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I walk around Reading on the way home or Bracknell town centre and sadly you see large parents feeding their kids burgers, donuts or other crap. It's a self repeating cycle. The parents were probably brought up similarly on pizza, chips etc and so have got the same eating habits and this is what they are teaching the kids. The kids will do the same when they grow up. It is scary to see how many younger (20 and upwards) patients we get coming through the unit at work that are obese or morbidly obese and how many have diabetes as a co-morbidity. More than a ticking timebomb and something that will stretch the NHS in the next few years and beyond
		
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I'm quite surprised at the number of obese people dressed in scrubs you see in hospitals.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Tangentially. I’d like to talk about food poverty but can’t without it becoming political.
		
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Same here, but there’s also the point that a lot of those needing to use it don’t get much choice when it comes to healthy options.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 6, 2021)

There's a degree of genetics involved in people's weight and health. All my predecessors on my Mother's side of the family have lived well into their nineties even though I never saw any of them go to a gym or take any regular exercise.  They also never ate any degree of processed food but I believe they had good genes which isn't something we can change by lifestyle, however we can all make the best of what we have by looking after ourselves.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Same here, but there’s also the point that a lot of those needing to use it don’t get much choice when it comes to healthy options.
		
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Indeed. Honestly I sometimes well up in the supermarket looking at those food bank donation crates. The combination of people trying to do a good thing, the rubbish that’s put in them and the fact that THEY SHOULDN’T EXIST in the first place tears me apart.


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## Stuart_C (Dec 6, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			Indeed. Honestly I sometimes well up in the supermarket looking at those food bank donation crates. The combination of people trying to do a good thing, the rubbish that’s put in them and the fact that THEY SHOULDN’T EXIST in the first place tears me apart.
		
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I remember listening to a guy from the NE being interviewed on radio 5 and he was talking about voting conservative and he was asked” would you vote for them again “ he replied “ yes, they’ve done great things like the introduction of food banks“ I nearly crashed the van.


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## Slime (Dec 6, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Maybe you could revisit it then and add a question mark as *I read it as a statement.*

Click to expand...

It was a rhetorical question, sort of thinking out loud.
Rhetorical questions don't require a question mark but I can see where the confusion arose.


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			Two: Healthy food seems to be vastly more expensive, or perhaps more accurately, unhealthy food is so much cheaper. For the price of knocking together one salad you can buy a bag of frozen chips and frozen chicken nuggets that'll make 10 meals. Unless that ever changes you'll always have people surviving on unhealthy diets.
		
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this is the absolute deal breaker, you can walk into a cafe and get a bacon stick for £2-3.00 yet the same place will charge £4-5.00 for a tuna or chicken salad.  You can pop into a garage a get a pasty out the fridge for £1.00-1.50 yet a pot of sushi or healthy sandwich will be £2-3.00, an apple or form of fruit salad £1.00-2.00 yet two bags of Percy pigs or a double choc bar for less.

I happen to know this first hand as in  17 I went on a big health kick and with increased exercise and a more healthy diet dropped almost 2.5 stone in 4 months, but it was very evident from the bank account it come at a cost.  Even down to supermarket shops becoming more expensive weekly.

It should never be easier or cheaper to eat unhealthy and until this is addressed, any change will be delayed.  I’d like to see addition levy’s on unhealthy foods then salad / fruit / veg etc be tax exempt as a start.  Even down to cafes etc getting a different tax rate on these typical foods. Yes the gov will lose tax revenue but this will surely be outweighed by reduction in health care costs and end of life care costs.


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## Rooter (Dec 7, 2021)

Oddsocks said:



			It should never be easier or cheaper to eat unhealthy and until this is addressed, any change will be delayed.  I’d like to see addition levy’s on unhealthy foods then salad / fruit / veg etc be tax exempt as a start.  Even down to cafes etc getting a different tax rate on these typical foods. Yes the gov will lose tax revenue but this will surely be outweighed by reduction in health care costs and end of life care costs.
		
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Agree entirely on this, but it, unfortunately, will never happen, too many fatcats (oh the irony!) have too much to lose. But on your other points, eating a healthy 'trendy' diet can be really expensive! Avocados, nuts, fresh fish, grains are expensive! You could eat uber-healthy on a budget, but it would be pretty basic, greens, chicken thighs, pulses, etc.

Eating healthy on the go is really quite tough, garages and service stations especially. At least if you can get to a supermarket you can buy a pack of pre-cooked roast chicken, banana, yogurt for example. But even things like these promoted 'snack pots' of nuts and fruit etc, usually heavily salted or artificially flavored. 

The likes of Jamie Oliver (love him or hate him) do seem to at least try on the education front. 15-minute meals, meals with less than 5 ingredients etc are all great initiatives, but it HAS to start early, I would love to hear stories of kids coming home from school and requesting a change. (I am sure some/many do, but some parents are just plain lazy)

Should childhood obesity be treated as a form of child abuse? (Assuming there are no medical reasons for it)


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## stefanovic (Dec 7, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Oi Oi tiger!! lol 
And yeh, @stefanovic  my happy place I am trying to find is somewhere between 12 and 18% body fat, I am not sure the NHS would like my Ironman training plan....
		
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Yes, but have you calculated your BMI and body fat in post #50?
My BMI is 21.5 and body fat was officially 17% a few years ago (it may be a bit lower now).
I don't need to run marathons.
If you do, you RUN the risk of taking too much quality energy out of your body and replace it with energy of a lesser second hand quality (food).
This is called the entropy of the body.


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

Rooter said:



			, I would love to hear stories of kids coming home from school and requesting a change. (I am sure some/many do, but some parents are just plain lazy)

Should childhood obesity be treated as a form of child abuse? (Assuming there are no medical reasons for it)
		
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There an easy lesson here, at school give a kid a Mars bar, show him the calories and then stick them on any cardio machine until they’ve burnt it off, then do the same with several common snacks (can of coke, packet of crisps etc)  - there is a complete lack of food education and this is a factor.  Nan always have me a fresh pork pie, sausage roll etc because it was better for me than chocolate, ironically if you look at its content it’s prob the opposite. 

Now, if I’d eaten the pork pie and the pie teacher responded with “ now get on the rower for 45 mins chubby “ I doubt I’d ever eat one again.

Practical education of good and bad foods, fats, good fats, bad fats, food groups, macros, etc and required to to burn off these off should be a mandatory part of the curriculum.


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## Rooter (Dec 7, 2021)

Oddsocks said:



			There an easy lesson here, at school give a kid a Mars bar, show him the calories and then stick them on any cardio machine until they’ve burnt it off, then do the same with several common snacks (can of coke, packet of crisps etc)  - there is a complete lack of food education and this is a factor.  Nan always have me a fresh pork pie, sausage roll etc because it was better for me than chocolate, ironically if you look at its content it’s prob the opposite.

Now, if I’d eaten the pork pie and the pie teacher responded with “ now get on the rower for 45 mins chubby “ I doubt I’d ever eat one again.

Practical education of good and bad foods, fats, good fats, bad fats, food groups, macros, etc and required to to burn off these off should be a mandatory part of the curriculum.
		
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While I agree with the sentiment and the logic, presenting food Vs exercise is in my opinion a bad thing to do and can create bigger issues in eating disorders etc, Not saying I have the answers, but 45 minutes of running on a treadmill should not mean you then get to eat a mars bar.

You cannot out-train/exercise a bad diet. That's a fact. Exercise is the cherry on the top, food education needs to be better.


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## Rooter (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Yes, but have you calculated your BMI and body fat in post #50?
My BMI is 21.5 and body fat was officially 17% a few years ago (it may be a bit lower now).
I don't need to run marathons.
If you do, you RUN the risk of taking too much quality energy out of your body and replace it with energy of a lesser second hand quality (food).
This is called the entropy of the body.
		
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Have I checked my BMI? No. I don't need to. Body fat % was done via calipers.
I reckon I'll be OK. I am not sure I am in the demographic that needs your expertise, but thanks anyhoo!


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 7, 2021)

I don’t eat nuts or fish....can’t stand them. I do eat anything else in moderation, that’s all I need to stay happy in skin and mind.


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

Rooter said:



			You cannot out-train/exercise a bad diet. That's a fact. Exercise is the cherry on the top, food education needs to be better.
		
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Exactly that!  Fast carbs verses slow carbs, fats etc, balanced macros and so on.

I learnt my daily recommended calorie intake at 39 by which time it’s a little too late.  Had this been ingrain or even the seed planted during secondary school as part of either PE or home ec, I have no doubt that my diet would be completely different.

As someone who commuted from 2017-2019 via public transport and / or motorways for work, the availability and costs of unhealthy foods against healthy options is just scary,


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## Jimaroid (Dec 7, 2021)

Oddsocks said:



			There an easy lesson here, at school give a kid a Mars bar, show him the calories and then stick them on any cardio machine until they’ve burnt it off, then do the same with several common snacks (can of coke, packet of crisps etc)  - there is a complete lack of food education and this is a factor.
		
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That won't work for all sorts of reasons. Although I agree on the principal of improving education, it needs to be the right type of education. A primary reason it won't work is that we're not all genetically equal. 

As an example some people cannot eat certain foods, such as type 1 diabetes, nut and fish allergies etc. What is healthy to some is not to others for a myriad of reasons.

Also calories are turning out to be a really poor way to define nutritional health, the same calorific intake can have extremely different affects on different people. And calories are not all equal across food groups. This goes back to my earlier point that we're too stuck in the past when it comes to nutritional health and a lot of messaging based on fat and calories due to some poor science may have made things worse.

Give people knowledge and tools to find what works and what doesn't work for them, combine it with a better understanding and easier access to exercise and let them get on with it. Body shaming should play no part.


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## stefanovic (Dec 7, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Have I checked my BMI? No. I don't need to. Body fat % was done via calipers.
I reckon I'll be OK. I am not sure I am in the demographic that needs your expertise, but thanks anyhoo!
		
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Here are just a few of the risks of running 26 miles.
Heart damage, kidney damage, DNA damage, bone and muscle injury.
Four reasons not to run a marathon - Big Think 

One guy explained to me how after having a gym workout every morning he felt he then deserved a big breakfast.
He looked at least 3 stones overweight and no wonder: 
Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people.
All he was doing was burning off good quality energy produced naturally in his body by lesser quality energy from food which is an inferior supplier of energy.


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## JamesR (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Here are just a few of the risks of running 26 miles.
Heart damage, kidney damage, DNA damage, bone and muscle injury.
Four reasons not to run a marathon - Big Think

One guy explained to me how after having a gym workout every morning he felt he then deserved a big breakfast.
He looked at least 3 stones overweight and no wonder:
*Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people.*
All he was doing was burning off good quality energy produced naturally in his body by lesser quality energy from food which is an inferior supplier of energy.
		
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Except, of course, the millions who don't exercise!


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## Rooter (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Here are just a few of the risks of running 26 miles.
Heart damage, kidney damage, DNA damage, bone and muscle injury.
Four reasons not to run a marathon - Big Think

One guy explained to me how after having a gym workout every morning he felt he then deserved a big breakfast.
He looked at least 3 stones overweight and no wonder:
Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people.
All he was doing was burning off good quality energy produced naturally in his body by lesser quality energy from food which is an inferior supplier of energy.
		
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Dude, behave. You started a good thread with some really good discussion points. Leave it there yeh?


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## BiMGuy (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Here are just a few of the risks of running 26 miles.
Heart damage, kidney damage, DNA damage, bone and muscle injury.
Four reasons not to run a marathon - Big Think

One guy explained to me how after having a gym workout every morning he felt he then deserved a big breakfast.
He looked at least 3 stones overweight and no wonder:
Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people.
All he was doing was burning off good quality energy produced naturally in his body by lesser quality energy from food which is an inferior supplier of energy.
		
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Can you please expand on how the body produces the good quality natural energy you keep referring to?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Here are just a few of the risks of running 26 miles.
Heart damage, kidney damage, DNA damage, bone and muscle injury.
Four reasons not to run a marathon - Big Think

One guy explained to me how after having a gym workout every morning he felt he then deserved a big breakfast.
He looked at least 3 stones overweight and no wonder:
Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people.
All he was doing was burning off good quality energy produced naturally in his body by lesser quality energy from food which is an inferior supplier of energy.
		
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A natural 9 stone weakling (as you called yourself) giving advice on exercise and diet is like Rory McIlroy asking me for advice on  how to play a wedge shot.


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Except, of course, the millions who don't exercise!
		
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Who are fatties?


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## stefanovic (Dec 7, 2021)

JamesR said:



			Except, of course, the millions who don't exercise!
		
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I've known plenty of people who have lived healthily into their 90's and one over 100 who did not do hard exercise. Just walking for them.
It is a modern commercialised myth that the more you exercise the healthier you become and the more weight you will lose.
Running a marathon based on the distance from Marathon to Athens (26.2 miles) is even incorrect. It was originally 25 miles.
Look at the number of people who have sadly died just running half marathons who would probably have lived longer had they not.
All I'm saying is that no amount of food you eat will replenish lost energy which is naturally stored in your body by sleep.


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## JamesR (Dec 7, 2021)

There are many fat people who don't exercise - so your statement _"Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people." _is inaccurate


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## BiMGuy (Dec 7, 2021)

Overweight people have got that way by consuming more calories than they have used. Simple. 

Exercise will not help most of them as they won’t be able to do enough exercise to burn off the calories they consume, never mind the excess they already have stored.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 7, 2021)

The best way to lose weight is to reduce sugar intake in all its forms.  Moderate exercise is very good for us as long as we are not damaging our bodies through over exertion.


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Overweight people have got that way by consuming more calories than they have used. Simple.
.
		
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The simplest way to describe it, when I shifted a hood lump of my excess it’s was a capt intake of 1800 cals a day spread across 5 meals, mainly sugar free in form of sweeties and goodies but replaced with healthy sugars such as fresh fruit. It was salad, steamed veg and more fast carbs less potato’s etc.  and every day was a min of a 5k walk cross country with Tuesdays and Thursdays being 12.5k.  The speedy loss imho come from the walking not being cancelled out by additional intake.

Taking the exercise away I reckon I could have lost the same amount of weight over a longer period based on stable macros and the calorie cap.


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## SyR (Dec 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			People say they don’t have time or fresh food is too expensive. No, they are just lazy, incompetent or both.

It is possible to cook good quality, healthy food cheaply and quickly.

Eating cheap food doesn’t make you fat. Eating more calories than you use does.
		
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I think we also have to keep in mind that in the 50's, 60's etc there were more stay at home wives that would cook the evening meal. These days couples have less time to shop and cook proper meals as they both have careers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			I've known plenty of people who have lived healthily into their 90's and one over 100 who did not do hard exercise. Just walking for them.
It is a modern commercialised myth that the more you exercise the healthier you become and the more weight you will lose.
Running a marathon based on the distance from Marathon to Athens (26.2 miles) is even incorrect. It was originally 25 miles.
Look at the number of people who have sadly died just running half marathons who would probably have lived longer had they not.
All I'm saying is that no amount of food you eat will replenish lost energy which is naturally stored in your body by sleep.
		
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Originally the Olympic Marathon distance in 1896 was 25 miles (40kms), it was then moved to 26 miles at the 1908 London Olympics when Queen Alexandra requested it start on the lawn of Windsor Castle and finish in front of the Royal Box at the Olympic Stadium, she then further requested it was started a bit further back in front of the children’s bedroom so they could watch the start from there, that was a further 385yds.

The random distance of 26.2 miles (the distance ran in 1908, then stuck and was then formally accepted in 1921 as the length of the modern marathon.

You’re welcome.


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## Hobbit (Dec 7, 2021)

JamesR said:



			There are many fat people who don't exercise - so your statement _"Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people." _is inaccurate
		
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Until age 45 my diet was as it had always been. Full of chocolate in its various forms. Lots of the wrong food, and portion sizes that were a bit on the large size. Two butty boxes + crisps + chocolate biscuits, and let’s not forget the bacon sandwich at 10am and the cake at 3pm. Weight approximately 11.5 stone.

Cue a nasty accident, and the football, cricket and golf 6 days a week came to an abrupt end for 2 years. I could play golf twice a week after that but all 36 hole competitions were also a no-no.

Weight ballooned to 17 stone. As much as I’d have loved to carry on all the sports I couldn’t. In fact it was 11 years before I could swim a length again.

For me, very little exercise meant the weight went on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Overweight people have got that way by consuming more calories than they have used. Simple.

Exercise will not help most of them as they won’t be able to do enough exercise to burn off the calories they consume, never mind the excess they already have stored.
		
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Are underweight people all that way because they don’t consume enough calories or as human beings are some people naturally lighter or heavier?


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## BiMGuy (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Are underweight people all that way because they don’t consume enough calories or as human beings are some people naturally lighter or heavier?
		
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Underweight people can be from many different things. Some may not consume enough calories, others may not process them. 

I’d like to see any evidence that people get fat consuming fewer calories than they use. They would essentially be generating energy from nothing!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

BiMGuy said:



			Underweight people can be from many different things. Some may not consume enough calories, others may not process them.

I’d like to see any evidence that people get fat consuming fewer calories than they use. They would essentially be generating energy from nothing!
		
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Define fat though? Is it using bmi? Exact weight for height? 1lb over these limits, 10? etc.

I agree there’s no doubting clinically obese or those who completely over eat causing weight gain, but there are also those who are naturally heavier, through muscle, medication or whatever that, that are classed as “fat” 

I still think it’s more of a culture/society issue that can be fixed, but would imo take a generation or 3 to do it.

I generally don’t believe for many of the reasons listed by posters that there is a quick fix.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Define fat though? Is it using bmi? Exact weight for height? 1lb over these limits, 10? etc.

I agree there’s no doubting clinically obese or those who completely over eat causing weight gain, but there are also those who are naturally heavier, through muscle, medication or whatever that, that are classed as “fat”

I still think it’s more of a culture/society issue that can be fixed, but would imo take a generation or 3 to do it.

I generally don’t believe for many of the reasons listed by posters that there is a quick fix.
		
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There is no quick fix, you are right there. 

Some people are naturally a bigger build than others. And they, like everyone else will have a calorie intake to suit them. Body builders and 18st rugby players are often used as an example as to why BMI is a poor measure. neither are particularly good for long term health due to the strain it can put on your heart and other organs. But both a probably better than being an 18 stone couch potato.
Even body builders wouldn’t get to the size they do without consuming a massive amount of calories, once your internal energy stores are gone, muscle need a lot of fuel to grow.


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## bobmac (Dec 7, 2021)

Eat less, move more. (Connolly, B 1976)


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			Here are just a few of the risks of running 26 miles.
Heart damage, kidney damage, DNA damage, bone and muscle injury.
Four reasons not to run a marathon - Big Think

One guy explained to me how after having a gym workout every morning he felt he then deserved a big breakfast.
He looked at least 3 stones overweight and no wonder:
Exercise has never been proven to take weight off you. If it did you wouldn't find many overweight people.
All he was doing was burning off good quality energy produced naturally in his body by lesser quality energy from food which is an inferior supplier of energy.
		
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If you are looking for reasons NOT to run marathons, I can provide plenty more, but those you mention are not particularly good ones *for sensible participants*!
Did you bother to ask why your 'one guy' was having a daily gym workout? Check the body shapes/sizes of Test level Rugby players. I'm certain nearly half of them would be considered 'overweight' too!


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## Leftitshort (Dec 7, 2021)

Now for the science bit !!!



stefanovic said:



			good quality energy produced naturally in his body by lesser quality energy from food which is an inferior supplier of energy.
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2021)

While fast food outlets can churn out burgers and meals cheaply and still make massive profits then nothing will change. Unless going to a McDonalds, KFC or Burger King (and all the others) becomes less of an easy fix to use to feed the family (you should see the queues at our drive through KFC and McDonalds every evening) then I can understand why people choose the option. If there is a correlation between families on lower incomes and being overweight then it would explain why they can feed their kids with a value meal cheaper than cooking at home and worry about the health implications later


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			While fast food outlets can churn out burgers and meals cheaply and still make massive profits then nothing will change. Unless going to a McDonalds, KFC or Burger King (and all the others) becomes less of an easy fix to use to feed the family (you should see the queues at our drive through KFC and McDonalds every evening) then I can understand why people choose the option. If there is a correlation between families on lower incomes and being overweight then it would explain why they can feed their kids with a value meal cheaper than cooking at home and worry about the health implications later
		
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I was trying to find a way of wording that, you covered it perfectly.


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## HeftyHacker (Dec 7, 2021)

Hobbit said:



			Until age 45 my diet was as it had always been. Full of chocolate in its various forms. Lots of the wrong food, and portion sizes that were a bit on the large size. Two butty boxes + crisps + chocolate biscuits, and let’s not forget the bacon sandwich at 10am and the cake at 3pm. Weight approximately 11.5 stone.

Cue a nasty accident, and the football, cricket and golf 6 days a week came to an abrupt end for 2 years. I could play golf twice a week after that but all 36 hole competitions were also a no-no.

Weight ballooned to 17 stone. As much as I’d have loved to carry on all the sports I couldn’t. In fact it was 11 years before I could swim a length again.

For me, very little exercise meant the weight went on.
		
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This has been the crux of it for me. I'd always been able to eat what I want and the 5 days of high intensity sport I'd do every week meant I never gained weight. 

When I was into the gym I worked out my metabolic rate was around 2400 calories a day. Add on an hour of rugby or cycling and I was burning a further 900 calories.

Fast forward to a post covid lockdown world with I've a young child and my only sport being golf and my completely physiology has changed. Im the same weight but my shoulders are slimmer, arms smaller and stomach bigger, keep eating like I always have and I'll start ballooning soon i reckon.

2022s problem.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 7, 2021)

Oddsocks said:



			I was trying to find a way of wording that, you covered it perfectly.
		
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I'm getting a little worried. First I hit record scores in the prediction league and now someone says I make sense. Off to lie down in a dark room


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## SocketRocket (Dec 7, 2021)

HomerJSimpson said:



			While fast food outlets can churn out burgers and meals cheaply and still make massive profits then nothing will change. Unless going to a McDonalds, KFC or Burger King (and all the others) becomes less of an easy fix to use to feed the family (you should see the queues at our drive through KFC and McDonalds every evening) then I can understand why people choose the option. If there is a correlation between families on lower incomes and being overweight then it would explain why they can feed their kids with a value meal cheaper than cooking at home and worry about the health implications later
		
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As someone who has raised three children but never bought a MickyD or any lookalikes I'm not sure of the economics.  It looks as if a typical burger meal with fries and a drink would be somewhere around £4/5,  a family of four would be shelling out around £20 for a meal, this doesn't seem particularly cheap to me.


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			As someone who has raised three children but never bought a MickyD or any lookalikes I'm not sure of the economics.  It looks as if a typical burger meal with fries and a drink would be somewhere around £4/5,  a family of four would be shelling out around £20 for a meal, this doesn't seem particularly cheap to me.
		
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Happy (kids) meals have generally been £3.00 and that’s with a free toy!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			As someone who has raised three children but never bought a MickyD or any lookalikes I'm not sure of the economics.  It looks as if a typical burger meal with fries and a drink would be somewhere around £4/5,  a family of four would be shelling out around £20 for a meal, this doesn't seem particularly cheap to me.
		
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A kids happy meal is £2.79, contains a main item, (burger, fish fingers, veggie sticks etc). Chips, apple slices or a.n other. Drink, pop, water or milk.

Maybe enough for a kid up to about 8-9yrs old, if they’ve eaten other meals.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 7, 2021)

Paperboy said:



			Yes that's what they try to instill in us. First time was a golf trip to Wales for 3 days, felt bad and said to my trainer and he said don't be stupid.  But it's hard when you feel as though your not doing what you feel you should be doing.
		
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Which gym have you joined Simon?


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## SocketRocket (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A kids happy meal is £2.79, contains a main item, (burger, fish fingers, veggie sticks etc). Chips, apple slices or a.n other. Drink, pop, water or milk.

Maybe enough for a kid up to about 8-9yrs old, if they’ve eaten other meals.
		
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Ah, OK.   There's also the adult meals to add and when they're teens I expect it's not far away from what I'm suggesting.   

I'm always amazed when visiting the local retail park at the number of cars queued waiting to buy from McDonalds.


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## Oddsocks (Dec 7, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			A kids happy meal is £2.79, contains a main item, (burger, fish fingers, veggie sticks etc). Chips, apple slices or a.n other. Drink, pop, water or milk.

Maybe enough for a kid up to about 8-9yrs old, if they’ve eaten other meals.
		
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You have however missed the 70000000 million calorie McFlurry


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## Deleted member 16999 (Dec 7, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Ah, OK.   There's also the adult meals to add and when they're teens I expect it's not far away from what I'm suggesting. 

I'm always amazed when visiting the local retail park at the number of cars queued waiting to buy from McDonalds.
		
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Then it’s cheaper with the 99p Cheeseburger.


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## Foxholer (Dec 7, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			I've known plenty of people who have lived healthily into their 90's and one over 100 who did not do hard exercise. Just walking for them.
I...
		
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Given that shuffling is all that I can (currently) do - at nearly 70 - I hope to be similarly 'afflicted', Though I have certainly done 'hard' exercise in the past.


stefanovic said:



			...
It is a modern commercialised myth that the more you exercise the healthier you *can* become and the more weight you *can* lose.
...
		
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FTFY!


stefanovic said:



			...All I'm saying is that no amount of food you eat will replenish lost energy which is naturally stored in your body by sleep.
		
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Twaddle!


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## Paperboy (Dec 8, 2021)

SteveW86 said:



			Which gym have you joined Simon?
		
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its a little gym called DMF Evolve in chandlers ford. About a minutes walk from work


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## SocketRocket (Dec 8, 2021)

pauldj42 said:



			Then it’s cheaper with the 99p Cheeseburger.

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Enjoy 😂


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## stefanovic (Dec 8, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Given that shuffling is all that I can (currently) do - at nearly 70 - I hope to be similarly 'afflicted', Though I have certainly done 'hard' exercise in the past.
		
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At nearly 72 I've just returned from a 9 mile canal walk.
Cycling, jogging, sprinting are no problem. 
I will probably go jogging this evening 
I can do over 100 challenging yoga poses and can perform a one hour Tai Chi workout (hardest of the lot).

If I have a 'secret' it's not eating much. I never have a big meal, only snacks.
I avoid all take-away's.
I don't expect others' to lead this lifestyle. It's their choice. 
I'm going to die one day, but I'd still like to extend my health span.

*There is a clear price to pay for over eating and over exercising.*
It's like the smoker who realises too late there was a price to pay for his addiction.
I've never smoked and have consumed very little alcohol in my life.
Yet there is always an element of luck.


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## Foxholer (Dec 8, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			...
If I have a 'secret' it's not eating much. I never have a big meal, only snacks.
...Yet there is always an element of luck.
		
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I'm inclined to believe the (or at least 'a') 'secret' to longevity is to have long-lived ancestors!


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## sunshine (Dec 8, 2021)

The fact that McDonalds now sells a double big mac says it all.

Fat-shaming is no longer acceptable, but actually women are now encouraged to celebrate being fat.

There's nothing (seriously) wrong with being a little overweight, but I haven noticed an explosion in the number of properly obese people in the last 10 years.


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## Fade and Die (Dec 8, 2021)

sunshine said:



			The fact that McDonalds now sells a double big mac says it all.

Fat-shaming is no longer acceptable, but actually women are now encouraged to celebrate being fat.

There's nothing (seriously) wrong with being a little overweight, but I haven noticed an explosion in the number of properly obese people in the last 10 years.
		
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If I am too drunk in the pub then the landlord can refuse to serve me. Maybe McDonald’s should adopt a similar policy. “Sorry love you’ve had too much already” 😁


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## SocketRocket (Dec 8, 2021)

sunshine said:



			The fact that McDonalds now sells a double big mac says it all.

Fat-shaming is no longer acceptable, but actually women are now encouraged to celebrate being fat.

There's nothing (seriously) wrong with being a little overweight, but I haven noticed an explosion in the number of properly obese people in the last 10 years.
		
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I think that obese people are eating too much refined and unrefined sugar rather than fat.  Fat has been given an undeserved bad press for a long time, it's transfats that are unhealthy.   The most unhealthy part of a burger is the bun.


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 8, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			I think that obese people are eating too much refined and unrefined sugar rather than fat.  Fat has been given an undeserved bad press for a long time, it's transfats that are unhealthy.   The most unhealthy part of a burger is the bun.
		
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Surely that depends on where you get the burger from. If I make burgers at home from 5% fat steak mince, breadcrumbs and eggs then the bun is very likely to be the most unhealthy part of it. If I buy a pack of 40 burgers for £2 from Iceland (or wherever) then it's highly likely that the burger isn't going to be even close to healthy.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 8, 2021)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely that depends on where you get the burger from. If I make burgers at home from 5% fat steak mince, breadcrumbs and eggs then the bun is very likely to be the most unhealthy part of it. If I buy a pack of 40 burgers for £2 from Iceland (or wherever) then it's highly likely that the burger isn't going to be even close to healthy.
		
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Why?  It's not the fat in the burger that's the unhealthy part, it's the unrefined sugar in the bun's carbs.
As I suggested, trans fats are unhealthy, saturated and unsaturated fats are not a problem when used proportionally with other foods like non root vegetables.  We do need sugar in our diet but the average diet Is much too high in it.

I eat a fairly high fat/protein diet and my cholesterol score is 3.5.


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## Leftitshort (Dec 8, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			At nearly 72 I've just returned from a 9 mile canal walk.
Cycling, jogging, sprinting are no problem.
I will probably go jogging this evening
I can do over 100 challenging yoga poses and can perform a one hour Tai Chi workout (hardest of the lot).

If I have a 'secret' it's not eating much. I never have a big meal, only snacks.
I avoid all take-away's.
I don't expect others' to lead this lifestyle. It's their choice.
I'm going to die one day, but I'd still like to extend my health span.

*There is a clear price to pay for over eating and over exercising.*
It's like the smoker who realises too late there was a price to pay for his addiction.
I've never smoked and have consumed very little alcohol in my life.
Yet there is always an element of luck.
		
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Sounds miserable. I’d rather get pissed & chain smoke woodbines


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## SocketRocket (Dec 8, 2021)

Leftitshort said:



			Sounds miserable. I’d rather get pissed & chain smoke woodbines
		
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Go for it, you know it makes sense.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 8, 2021)

Just for balance. McDonalds isn’t as bad as people think it is provided you stay away from the soft drinks, pancakes and ice cream. They knew years ago they stood to lose a lot in accusations of dietary harm, especially in children. Happy meals come with fruit, vegetables and fruit juice rather than fries and pop. It is reasonable to say they’re playing a good part in habitual change.

Their coffee is decent and they’re a pretty good employer too. There’s much worse out there.


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## Foxholer (Dec 8, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			At nearly 72 I've just returned from a 9 mile canal walk.
...
		
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Well, that's another 90 mins or so of your 'life' wasted.
Average life expectancy of males in Spain, France and Italy are all higher that of Brits, so, having had a pasta meal, I'm having a very pleasant (if large) glass of Rioja - while listening to Jimmy Buffett's 'Rue de la Guitare' - the Monmartre reference bringing back wonderful memories of a wonderful holiday in Paris and Loire Valley that included a several rounds and meals at Les Bordes!


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## Leftitshort (Dec 9, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Go for it, you know it makes sense.
		
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Isn’t that the true spirit of Christmas? 🤣


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## bobmac (Dec 9, 2021)

Get out of your chair*, walk to the car, drive to the drive through, get your family bucket, drive home, back to your seat, consume aforementioned bucket, washed down with a large coke.
It's hardly hunting and gathering.
Any food that has 'bucket' in its description should be avoided in my opinion.

*And now we can just order food in without even leaving your chair, get someone in the house who still has the ability to walk to collect it from the front door.

In the olden days (early 60s) all we had was the chippy, once a month as a treat. You better double wrap it in newspaper so it wont get cold on the walk home.

Now what do we have, Macds, KFC, Burger King, kebabs, pizzas etc.
At first it's just a bacon and egg mcmuffin washed down with coffee for breakfast, then it's the take away burger and chips for lunch, which leads to take away pizza for tea/dinner, its the domino affect.  
It saddens me when I see queues at our local Mcd drive through at 8 am

All is not lost however.......


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 9, 2021)

None of those shorts are "tailored". 2nd from right: short socks must be "predominately white". Far right needs to tuck his shirt in. 
Dreadful. Makes me quite angry to see such awfulness on a golf course. 
Perhaps we need to try much harder to put youngsters off the idea of playing golf. 
We don't go out there to enjoy ourselves you know.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 9, 2021)

What's the difference between a McDonald's Bacon McMuffin and a bacon roll at the golf club? Apart from one being criticised and one being often praised on this forum?

I'm here all day.


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 9, 2021)

Both are OK as long as you don't put any of that red or brown gloop on it that has the main ingredient of sugar. And go very easy on the butter or margarine. Or don't use any at all.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 9, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			What's the difference between a McDonald's Bacon McMuffin and a bacon roll at the golf club? Apart from one being criticised and one being often praised on this forum?

I'm here all day.
		
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A sausage egg McMuffin is nicer than any bacon sandwich I’ve had at a golf club.


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## bobmac (Dec 9, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			What's the difference between a McDonald's Bacon McMuffin and a bacon roll at the golf club? Apart from one being criticised and one being often praised on this forum?

I'm here all day.
		
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One is a roll and one is a muffin.
I don't play golf every day.
If I want a bacon roll before golf, I'll have one at home.
I also have coffee.
I guess I'm just the old fashioned type who has breakfast before leaving home.


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## Neilds (Dec 9, 2021)

bobmac said:



			One is a roll and one is a muffin.
I don't play golf every day.
If I want a bacon roll before golf, I'll have one at home.
I also have coffee.
I guess I'm just the old fashioned type who has breakfast before leaving home.
		
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For me, the bacon butty before golf is part of the whole golf experience.  Time to catch up with the rest of the guys, find out who still has a dodgy handicap, who is on fire and likely to shoot 4 under (then won't ) and time to talk down my own game before (hopefully) winning the sweep.  Breakfast at the club is as much part of my round as the drink afterwards.


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## stefanovic (Dec 9, 2021)

Most people here don't seem to want to lose weight and that is their choice.
Food retailers don't want them to, either.

If you do want to lose weight you could try the Robert Atkins' diet.
But he was clinically obese when he passed away.
You could try Paul McKenna's I Can Make You Thin method.
But images of him suggest he is at least a bit overweight.

So what works? There are just one or two things which are so simple they are easy to overlook.
Reduce your input of calories.
Try to catch up with your sleep.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 9, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			Both are OK as long as you don't put any of that red or brown gloop on it that has the main ingredient of sugar. And go very easy on the butter or margarine. Or don't use any at all.
		
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Nothing at all wrong with butter but margarine is to be avoided.


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Nothing at all wrong with butter but margarine is to be avoided.
		
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H'mm. Not certain about that!
As ever, generalisations are unreliable (including this/these one/s!)!


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## Rooter (Dec 9, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			I think that obese people are eating too much refined and unrefined sugar rather than fat.  Fat has been given an undeserved bad press for a long time, it's transfats that are unhealthy.   The most unhealthy part of a burger is the bun.
		
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My money is on the sauces. But agree, Fat gets a bad rap. Sugars are my nemesis for sure.


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## Rooter (Dec 9, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			What's the difference between a McDonald's Bacon McMuffin and a bacon roll at the golf club? Apart from one being criticised and one being often praised on this forum?

I'm here all day.
		
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Hmmm, probably very little!

in fact, lets go, from Myfitnesspal (only quite basic, and I never fully trust MFP, no sugar numbers on the carb breakdown which I like to see, also Fat Vs Sat fat)

Mcdonalds Bacon Roll with Ketchup
319 cal
43g carb
8.4g fat
18g protein

Greggs Bacon Roll
337 cal
36g carb
13g fat
19g protein

Club option (1 x sourdough roll, 1 teaspoon butter, Bacon 2 rashers, 1 tsp ketchup)

210 + 80 + 80 + 20 cal* 390 cal*
40g + 0g + 0g +5g carb *45g *
2g + 9g + 7g + 0g fat  *18g*
5g + 0g +5g + 0g  protein *10g*


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

Rooter said:



			...Sugars are my nemesis for sure.
		
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Not unusual/unexpected. Sugars are recognised and processed by various the body (at least normally). Many 'fats' are simply passed through!
All about having an 'appropriate' diet imo.Yours will almost certainly be vastly different to mine!


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			What's the difference between a McDonald's Bacon McMuffin and a bacon roll at the golf club? Apart from one being criticised and one being often praised on this forum?

I'm here all day.
		
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The environment and the anticipation!


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## Jimaroid (Dec 9, 2021)

Rooter said:



			in fact, lets go, from Myfitnesspal (only quite basic, and I never fully trust MFP, no sugar numbers on the carb breakdown which I like to see, also Fat Vs Sat fat)
		
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Nicely done! Point taken on MFP validity. McDonalds take their nutrition reporting seriously because if they get it wrong they're an easy litigation target. Sad, mad and true unfortunately.

Here's McDonald's Nutrition breakdown for comparison with MFP.


Energy (kJ) Energy in kJ    *1397* 
Energy (kcal) Energy in kcal    *332* 
Fat (g) Fat in grams    *9.2* 
of which saturated (g) of which saturated in grams    *2.8* 

Carbohydrate (g) Carbohydrate in grams    *40* 
of which sugars (g) of which sugars in grams    *7.4* 

Fibre (g) Fibre in grams    *2.2 * 
Protein (g) Protein in grams    *21* 
Salt (g) Salt in grams    *2.2*


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Hmmm, probably very little!...
		
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A question for you - that you may have documented in the past, so apologies for being a bit lazy....

You seemed to have become a bit of a fitness and food content 'fan' or even 'fanatic'. Was there a specific reason - that you can share? Or a thread you can point me to to avoid repetition?


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 9, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Nothing at all wrong with butter but margarine is to be avoided.
		
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I do just that.
However, I was considering keeping the calorie count down. The bread and bacon contain enough fat and carbohydrate, hence no need to add more sugar and fat.


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## Neilds (Dec 9, 2021)

Jimaroid said:



			What's the difference between a McDonald's Bacon McMuffin and a bacon roll at the golf club? Apart from one being criticised and one being often praised on this forum?

I'm here all day.
		
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Nothing is 'wrong' with either.  I firmly believe that no food is 'wrong', you just need to be sensible and have things in moderation.  A bacon butty or Mcmuffin once a week before your weekly medal is fine, 1 a day is less so and you should have a word with yourself.  I also believe that those who weigh their portions and get hung up if they eat 0.1g too much of protein/fat/sugar should get a life and live a little!


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## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2021)

I certainly thing a bacon sarnie is fair game when you're about to do 3.5 to 4 hours of walking. I'm usually starving again by 9 holes.

Edit: This time of year is the worst though. On Tuesday night I had work drinks, on the way home I had a Greggs _and_ a Burger King. Awful decision-making.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 9, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			H'mm. Not certain about that!
As ever, generalisations are unreliable (including this/these one/s!)!
		
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It's not a generalisation.  There's nothing harmful in butter.


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## DRW (Dec 9, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			I'm not convinced it's possible to have a one fits all scale when you consider the different body makeup of humans.  I'm 6ft tall and my ideal BMI puts me at around 11 stone, I'm around 14 stone and in no way an Olympian, international rugby player or body builder, I'm also not obese or even what could be considered overweight, if I was 11 stone I'd look emaciated .   I understand your point but for me BMI is not good.
		
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Seriously do you not consider 14 stone being overweight for 6 foot ?

Im under 13 stone and consider that I am carrying alot of excess fat and fairly active(not muscle bound or big boned ). How peoples outlook of what is thin/normal/fat has changed in 2 generations, its a massive problem.


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## DRW (Dec 9, 2021)

For me weight, has always been reflective of how much I eat.

There is a sweet spot that my weight basically doesn't vary (around 1750-2200 calories a day). If stick with that range, then weight does not vary over the course of a week or month or year. Lockdown killed my weight but lost it all now, would like to lose a bit more, but with all going on Ive maintained status quo.

Below those calories the weight falls off and above those calories the weight piles on ('almost' irrelevant of the exercise level).


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## Orikoru (Dec 9, 2021)

DRW said:



			For me weight, has always been reflective of how much I eat.

There is a sweet spot that my weight basically doesn't vary (around 1750-2200 calories a day). If stick with that range, then weight does not vary over the course of a week or month or year. Lockdown killed my weight but lost it all now, would like to lose a bit more, but with all going on Ive maintained status quo.

Below those calories the weight falls off and above those calories the weight piles on ('almost' irrelevant of the exercise level).
		
Click to expand...

My problem is that I could have 6 good days in the week of low calories, one takeaway and a couple of beers on a Saturday, and end up 2 pounds heavier. Life's too short to forgo the beers and takeaways completely though! In fairness though I generally stay the same as you said. I'm also 6 foot, weighing around 12 stone 10 at the moment, ideally I would like to be closer to 12. But as long as I'm not over 13 it's not the end of the world.


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			It's not a generalisation.  There's nothing harmful in butter.
		
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Twaddle!
There's *plenty that can be harmful in butter* - and some butters are 'better' (or perhaps 'less bad') than others.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-butter-bad-for-you#evidence


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 9, 2021)

I seem to remember Jerry Guscote was 14 and a half stone. Don't remember exactly how tall. Looked quite slim, though.

I'm 5ft 11ins and 11st 2lb.
3 years ago I was 12st 4lb.
40 years ago I was 11st.


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## DRW (Dec 9, 2021)

Orikoru said:



			My problem is that I could have 6 good days in the week of low calories, one takeaway and a couple of beers on a Saturday, and end up 2 pounds heavier. Life's too short to forgo the beers and takeaways completely though! In fairness though I generally stay the same as you said. I'm also 6 foot, weighing around 12 stone 10 at the moment, ideally I would like to be closer to 12. But as long as I'm not over 13 it's not the end of the world.
		
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Oh yeah for every naughty excess day, I have to be good for 1-3 days to lose that excess day.

Balance is everything.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 9, 2021)

DRW said:



			Seriously do you not consider 14 stone being overweight for 6 foot ?

Im under 13 stone and consider that I am carrying alot of excess fat and fairly active(not muscle bound or big boned ). How peoples outlook of what is thin/normal/fat has changed in 2 generations, its a massive problem.
		
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No, it's not.  I have a natural strong body with good muscle definition.  At 13 stone I am thin, anything under that and I look skeletal.   I could in reality lose a stone with a push but I don't think I need to.  I do work on maintaining muscle as I'm not young and don't want muscle wastage which happens in older people.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 9, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			Twaddle!
There's *plenty that can be harmful in butter* - and some butters are 'better' (or perhaps 'less bad') than others.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-butter-bad-for-you#evidence

Click to expand...

Twaddle back to you my old sausage.  That article you've posted makes a very strong case for the beneficial contents found in butter, and I'm talking about butter from cow's milk.  Butter has a high calorific value so it's good to bear in mind your overall calories just like any food.  The old view that butter and many fats are unhealthy has long been proven false.  Like any food it needs to be used in balance.


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			I seem to remember Jerry Guscote was 14 and a half stone. Don't remember exactly how tall. Looked quite slim, though.
...
		
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6ft 1"/185cm. His BMI would not have been 'normal' either - though likely would have been pretty normal for any international centre/wing/fullback.
He'd have had significantly different attributes to a half-back, #8, Props or Hooker though. That's one of the unique things about Rugby as a sport...There's a place in a Rugby team for virtually every body shape!


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

SocketRocket said:



			Twaddle back to you my old sausage.  That article you've posted makes a very strong case for the beneficial contents found in butter, and I'm talking about butter from cow's milk.  Butter has a high calorific value so it's good to bear in mind your overall calories just like any food.  The old view that butter and many fats are unhealthy has long been proven false.  _Like any food it needs to be used in balance._

Click to expand...

I don't disagree! But you posted simply that there's 'nothing in Butter that's bad'. That generalisation needed a 'disclaimer' like the sentence I've italicised above, otherwise my 'twaddle' certainly applies!
Please remember the old truism....'All generalisers are fools'!


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## Rooter (Dec 9, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			A question for you - that you may have documented in the past, so apologies for being a bit lazy....

You seemed to have become a bit of a fitness and food content 'fan' or even 'fanatic'. Was there a specific reason - that you can share? Or a thread you can point me to to avoid repetition?
		
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Not sure I have ever documented it if I am honest. Long post warning!

Let's start at the beginning!! I used to play an OK standard of rugby, stopped in my late 20's wife, kids, dodgy knees from injuries.

Fast forward maybe 7 years I'm close to 14 stone, smoking 20 a day (from age 15!!), drinking every day. Got diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis (Actually after I quit smoking)

Determined to get fit, I started jogging. Couch to 5k was just starting I think, anyway, I entered a 10k race 5 months in the future. I couldn't run more than 1km without walking. That was probably 2008 ish.

Fast forward to today, I quit drinking almost 3 years ago now, for multiple reasons, my UC was a big factor, but I also recognized I had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I was never drinking to excess in one go, but I was drinking nigh on every day. Maybe 1-2 cans on a low day, but upward of 4-5 and a bottle of wine (with no effect the next day!).

One bank holiday weekend I was out dog walking, had 2 pints in the pub, got home had another 6 cans, then finished the half bottle of red from the previous night, then went and bought another and finished that! Woke the next morning and was fine. That was the big issue! That I didn't feel like carp after that!! Not had a drink since as I recognize for me, there is no such thing as one.

Anyway, I wanted to be a role model for my kids. Not a fat dad that dies of heart disease before his daughter finished uni. 

This year I did a couple of half ironman, and manchester marathon, I am now training for Ironman UK. So yeh, you could say I am a little bit of a fanatic now! My 30-week training plan kicked in this week, at its peak, I will be training 20 hours per week!!!

My disease is at its best its ever been, i am convinced this is partly due to the respect and fuel i give my body. I am by far the fittest i have ever been, lowest body fat, and when i want (takes a month or 2 effort) i can get a full 6 pack, but I would have to live like a monk to maintain that!! I now stress a little less, but yes, I have a very close eye on what I eat! (Don't read the mince pie thread!!!)

I love it, feel great, look great, have fallen in love with myself which i think everyone needs to do. You must love yourself and treat your body with respect, you wouldn't but a lambo and drive it off road and fill it with chip fat fuel.

If i was not a wage slave to the industry i am in, i would retrain as a nutritionist / athletic coach


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## Voyager EMH (Dec 9, 2021)

Rooter said:



			Hmmm, probably very little!

in fact, lets go, from Myfitnesspal (only quite basic, and I never fully trust MFP, no sugar numbers on the carb breakdown which I like to see, also Fat Vs Sat fat)

Mcdonalds Bacon Roll with Ketchup
319 cal
43g carb
8.4g fat
18g protein

Greggs Bacon Roll
337 cal
36g carb
13g fat
19g protein

Club option (1 x sourdough roll, 1 teaspoon butter, Bacon 2 rashers, 1 tsp ketchup)

210 + 80 + 80 + 20 cal* 390 cal*
40g + 0g + 0g +5g carb *45g *
2g + 9g + 7g + 0g fat  *18g*
5g + 0g +5g + 0g  protein *10g*

Click to expand...

I like this detailed breakdown.
Can you do the same for my breakfast this morning, please?
2/3 of a mug of oats. 1 & 1/2 mugs of water. 1/2 teaspoon of butter.
Stir well over a low heat until thick porridge is formed.
Pour into a bowl and add 1/2 teaspoon of honey.
Yummie.


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## Rooter (Dec 9, 2021)

Voyager EMH said:



			I like this detailed breakdown.
Can you do the same for my breakfast this morning, please?
2/3 of a mug of oats. 1 & 1/2 mugs of water. 1/2 teaspoon of butter.
Stir well over a low heat until thick porridge is formed.
Pour into a bowl and add 1/2 teaspoon of honey.
Yummie.
		
Click to expand...


https://www.google.com/search?q=how...9i57j0i13l4.8672j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 9, 2021)

Foxholer said:



			6ft 1"/185cm. His BMI would not have been 'normal' either - though likely would have been pretty normal for any international centre/wing/fullback.
He'd have had significantly different attributes to a half-back, #8, Props or Hooker though. That's one of the unique things about Rugby as a sport...*There's a place in a Rugby team for virtually every body shape!*

Click to expand...

That certainly used to be the case, not really any more at pro level. Have you seen the size of these guys now


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2021)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That certainly used to be the case, not really any more at pro level. Have you seen the size of these guys now 

Click to expand...

Indeed, the (official) Pro game is all about power now - so numbers 10, 12 and 13 now need to be more solid to get oppo to have to commit. Oh and Jonah Lomu changed a lot of attitudes too!


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## SocketRocket (Dec 9, 2021)

If


Foxholer said:



			I don't disagree! But you posted simply that there's 'nothing in Butter that's bad'. That generalisation needed a 'disclaimer' like the sentence I've italicised above, otherwise my 'twaddle' certainly applies!
Please remember the old truism....'All generalisers are fools'!

Click to expand...

 If you had a diet that only consisted of cabbage it would eventually probably kill you.  I still say there's nothing in butter that's bad for you.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 9, 2021)

Rooter said:



			If i was not a wage slave to the industry i am in, i would retrain as a nutritionist / athletic coach
		
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You might be interested in this video on nutrition and sport performance, maybe already seen it. It says ketogenic on the tin but he covers a broad range of nutritional science from the point of view of a being a very well accomplished athlete (trad climber) struggling with his diet and went back to university to study nutrition. Downside (it's an upside really!) is it's over 4 hours long but very enjoyable and informative.


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## Swinglowandslow (Dec 9, 2021)

stefanovic said:



			At nearly 72 I've just returned from a 9 mile canal walk.
Cycling, jogging, sprinting are no problem. 
I will probably go jogging this evening 
I can do over 100 challenging yoga poses and can perform a one hour Tai Chi workout (hardest of the lot).

If I have a 'secret' it's not eating much. I never have a big meal, only snacks.
I avoid all take-away's.
I don't expect others' to lead this lifestyle. It's their choice. 
I'm going to die one day, but I'd still like to extend my health span.

*There is a clear price to pay for over eating and over exercising.*
It's like the smoker who realises too late there was a price to pay for his addiction.
I've never smoked and have consumed very little alcohol in my life.
Yet there is always an element of luck.
		
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Well done. So long as Sods Law stays away, you should be good for another twenty 😀
You've done all you can your end.  And you're obviously a thinker.
Good luck.


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## stefanovic (Mar 10, 2022)

Did anybody watch the disturbing Michael Mosley program on overweight Britain last night?

It seems that the truth is being kept from us by the food companies, by politicians, and fake news as to how exercise can solve the problem.
Even Mosley who promotes fast exercise (HIIT) seemed to back off.
Jamie Oliver who is clearly overweight himself, didn't want to say too much.

It's the scandal of the century that the public are being deliberately lied to about diet.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as healthy eating.
The only way to lose weight is to ensure that calories in are not greater than calories out.


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## Rooter (Mar 10, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Did anybody watch the disturbing Michael Mosley program on overweight Britain last night?
		
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Its on my watch list, I take what mosley says with a pinch of salt, but I like him.



stefanovic said:



			In my opinion, there is no such thing as healthy eating.
The only way to lose weight is to ensure that calories in are not greater than calories out.
		
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No such thing as healthy eating.... just lower calories than you burn... OK So what shall we call this method of eating fewer calories than we burn?? Eating Healthy?


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## Golfmmad (Mar 10, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			64% of people now considered to be overweight or obese.
PM is obsessed with the problem and blames it for the severity of his Covid infection.
A friend reported to me that she was concerned. I asked her to check her BMI and it came back as 32 (obese).
Strange thing about this I didn't notice she had a problem, a bit like fat being the new thin.

So what do we know?
Food is too easily available. We don't have to go far to find plenty of it.
Commercial diets don't work. As soon as you come off them the weight returns.
Similarly, exercise does not take weight off you for long.
If calories in are greater than calories out, you put on weight, and vice versa.

I was brought up austerity Britain when hardly anyone was overweight.
One or two main meals a week was normal.
The rest was pretty unspeakable!
		
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Have you been to America/Florida recently?


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## Foxholer (Mar 10, 2022)

Rooter said:



			Its on my watch list, I take what mosley says *with a pinch of salt*, but I like him.
		
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Don't watch him too often then!


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## Foxholer (Mar 10, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			At nearly 72 I've just returned from a 9 mile canal walk.
...
		
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Finally found your way home huh!


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## Voyager EMH (Mar 10, 2022)




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## stefanovic (Mar 10, 2022)

There is nothing wrong with chocolate fudge cake so long as you keep calories out greater than calories in.
Don't expect to live on it for long though.
Summary of Mosley's program here: Who Made Britain Fat? Dr Michael Mosley - The Fast 800


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## sunshine (Mar 10, 2022)

It’s ok to talk about fat people as long as you don’t mention any cricketers 🤫😂


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## cliveb (Mar 10, 2022)

Rooter said:



			So what shall we call this method of eating fewer calories than we burn?? Eating Healthy?
		
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I think eating fewer calories than you burn is generally called "dieting" 😉


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## Foxholer (Mar 10, 2022)

Rooter said:



			...
No such thing as healthy eating.... just lower calories than you burn... OK So what shall we call this method of eating fewer calories than we burn?? *Eating Healthy*?
		
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Not necessarily! A 100% Brocolli diet, as a totally random example, might reduce weight. But the lack of so many other essentials would likely cause all sorts of other issues!


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## Jason.H (Mar 11, 2022)

I work on a building site and there’s 1 very overweight person. He goes to greggs every day and devours sausage roll/ chocolate eclair deals like it’s nothing. Washes it down with 2 litres of Coca Cola.


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## Jason.H (Mar 11, 2022)

What about when there’s a few food items missing on the shelves due to lack of lorry drivers and people are panicking as if they will starve.


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## Foxholer (Mar 11, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			I work on a building site and there’s 1 very overweight person. He goes to greggs every day and devours sausage roll/ chocolate eclair deals like it’s nothing. Washes it down with 2 litres of Coca Cola.
		
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Is that a confession?


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## Fade and Die (Mar 11, 2022)

sunshine said:



			It’s ok to talk about fat people as long as you don’t mention any cricketers 🤫😂
		
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A whole thread about “Body Shaming”?
Someone’s not gonna like this. 🙄


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 11, 2022)

Apparently anyone who weight 100kg would only weigh 38 kg on Mars..

So I’m not fat, just on the wrong planet

However some would agree, but for other reasons 😮👍


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## chrisd (Mar 11, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Apparently anyone who weight 100kg would only weigh 38 kg on Mars..

So I’m not fat, just on the wrong planet

However some would agree, but for other reasons 😮👍
		
Click to expand...

From a different planet Fragger, not " on the wrong one" 😁😁


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## bobmac (Mar 11, 2022)

I'm not overweight, I'm just underheight


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## stefanovic (Mar 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Not necessarily! A 100% Brocolli diet, as a totally random example, might reduce weight. But the lack of so many other essentials would likely cause all sorts of other issues!
		
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According to the one time Health Secretary the tasty Edwina Currie (please, no John Major jokes) eating just a diet of fish and chips would result in you dying of malnutrition.
Same would apply to eggs infected with salmonella.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2022)

Missis T is going to weight watchers. Some of here home cooked meals are fantastic and she has lost 11lb at the moment. Basically it’s sensible eating. coz I am A Supportive kinda guy I have been eating the same things. When I hammer the bag of revels I go in the other room 😉


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## Foxholer (Mar 11, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			According to the one time Health Secretary the tasty Edwina Currie (please, no John Major jokes) eating just a diet of fish and chips would result in you dying of malnutrition.
		
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Does the half a pot of Tomato Sauce with my F&C contribute to my 5-a-day?


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## Jason.H (Mar 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Is that a confession?

Click to expand...

Nope 🤪. I ve been between 12 and 13 stone since I was a teenager, I’m now over 50.


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## stefanovic (Mar 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Does the half a pot of Tomato Sauce with my F&C contribute to my 5-a-day?
		
Click to expand...

Not according to this.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informations...nutrition/surprising-ways-to-get-your-5-a-day


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## hovis (Mar 11, 2022)

My doctor said I had an eating problem.  I said "I haven't got a problem, I like it"


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## Foxholer (Mar 11, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Not according to this.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informations...nutrition/surprising-ways-to-get-your-5-a-day

Click to expand...

You are a mine of useless diet related info.
FWIW, my post was seriously 'tongue in cheek', if missing a !


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## Tashyboy (Mar 11, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			Nope 🤪. I ve been between 12 and 13 stone since I was a teenager, I’m now over 50.
		
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Stone. 😳 who ate all the pies. joking aside when I started at Thoresby pit. Every years a gang of lads in January went in a 10 week diet. The winner who lost the most took the brass. I did the weigh in on Monday mornings. One lad had to be weighed on the lorry weighbridge he was that fat. He won the first year. He lost 56lbs. 😳
The following year the lads changed the rules so that the winner win by % body weight lost.
Edit to say the following year the weighbridge refused to weigh the big lad because it cost x amount each time so he had to go to Boots as there scales Would weigh an elephant ours only went up to 24 stones


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## Slime (Mar 11, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			Nope 🤪. I've been between 12 and 13 stone since I was a teenager, *I’m now over 50*.
		
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Stone or years old?


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## SocketRocket (Mar 11, 2022)

Jason.H said:



			Nope 🤪. I ve been between 12 and 13 stone since I was a teenager, I’m now over 50.
		
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50, that's packing.


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## SocketRocket (Mar 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Does the half a pot of Tomato Sauce with my F&C contribute to my 5-a-day?
		
Click to expand...

No but the mushy peas do.


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## Foxholer (Mar 11, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			No but the mushy peas do.
		
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Never been into them! Nor the other side dishes, save pineapple fritters. Unfamiliarity with UK tastes growing up elsewhere I guess.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 12, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Does the half a pot of Tomato Sauce with my F&C contribute to my 5-a-day?
		
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Yes, definitely. Potatoes are vegetables so the chips count as well. A slice of lemon in your gin and tonic counts as another. Tobacco is a vegetable crop so you could take up smoking to get more veg in your diet. 👍


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## Backache (Mar 12, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			In my opinion, there is no such thing as healthy eating.
The only way to lose weight is to ensure that calories in are not greater than calories out.
		
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I guess it comes down to definitions, but there certainly appears to be a lot of food stuffs that are associated with poorer health when eaten in larger quantities even when not associated with weight gain.
Other food stuffs have lower associations to poorer health. 
'Mediterranean diet' appears to be healthier than ones high in highly processed foods.


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## stefanovic (Mar 12, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			You are a mine of useless diet related info.
		
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Tomatoes are believed to be good for you and are part of 5 a day.
Red ketchup contains higher lycopene than raw tomatoes which is believed to be good for prostate.
That's what helps make it confusing. 



			FWIW, my post was seriously 'tongue in cheek', if missing a !
		
Click to expand...

Then why didn't you?


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## stefanovic (Mar 12, 2022)

Backache said:



			'Mediterranean diet' *appears* to be healthier than ones high in highly processed foods.
		
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It does appear so, but In some cases, the Mediterranean diet may lead to: *Weight gain from eating more than the recommended amount of fat* (such as in olive oil and nuts) Low levels of iron from not eating enough meat. Calcium loss from eating fewer dairy products.


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## Backache (Mar 12, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			It does appear so, but In some cases, the Mediterranean diet may lead to: *Weight gain from eating more than the recommended amount of fat* (such as in olive oil and nuts) Low levels of iron from not eating enough meat. Calcium loss from eating fewer dairy products.
		
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I think what should be highlighted in bold is 'In some cases' Any foodstuffs can be abused to the point of being a bit unhealthy but it is fundamentally healthier than a diet of largely highly processed food even though it is possible to overeat  with it.


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## Foxholer (Mar 12, 2022)

stefanovic said:





Foxholer said:



			You are a mine of useless diet related info.
...
		
Click to expand...

Tomatoes are believed to be good for you and are part of 5 a day.
Red ketchup contains higher lycopene than raw tomatoes which is believed to be good for prostate.
That's what helps make it confusing.
...
		
Click to expand...

Point proven once again!


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## stefanovic (Mar 17, 2022)

Final part of Michael Mosley's version of fast food nation served up on Channel 4 last night.
So what did we learn?
The food swamp mile at Tower Hamlets in London points to the future of all of our high streets.
Morrisons and other supermarkets do special promotions on food that makes us fat.
Because of mobile phones there is no need to leave home in search of food any more. Food will come to you.
Jamie Oliver is one to fix it. Strange how he looked even more overweight than he did last week.

Now there was a time when the rich were fat and the poor were thin.
It must be something to do with the government's levelling up policy that it is more likely to be the other way around now.
Thatcher inspired us to being middle class.
Clearly that's obsolete now; we should be aspiring to be upper class.
I mean, how do they hardly open their mouths when eating and speaking?


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## cliveb (Mar 18, 2022)

If the government is serious about this, there's a simple tactic.
The fundamental problem is that unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food.
So tax unhealthy food and ringfence the revenues to subsidise healthy food.
To achieve this, they really have to stand up to big business and do what's right for the population rather than the multinationals.


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## Neilds (Mar 18, 2022)

cliveb said:



			If the government is serious about this, there's a simple tactic.
*The fundamental problem is that unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food.*
So tax unhealthy food and ringfence the revenues to subsidise healthy food.
To achieve this, they really have to stand up to big business and do what's right for the population rather than the multinationals.
		
Click to expand...

Mars bar 70p (give or take, not bought one for ages) - 10 bananas about £1.50.
It's all about making the right choices


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## Voyager EMH (Mar 18, 2022)

Vegetables are very, very cheap.
Large cabbage 50p
Enormous butternut squash £1
750g of baby spuds £1
That was Monday at Tesco.
Finishing off the spuds and squash this evening. Meals for two all week with wild rice, lentils, pasta etc.


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## stefanovic (Mar 18, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Mars bar 70p (give or take, not bought one for ages) - 10 bananas about £1.50.
It's all about making the right choices
		
Click to expand...

Or bad choice.
From Science Focus:
Bananas are slightly radioactive because they are rich in potassium, and one of its natural isotopes (variants) is potassium-40, which is radioactive. A lorry full of bananas is radioactive enough to trigger a false alarm on a radiation detector looking for smuggled nuclear weapons.


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## Neilds (Mar 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Or bad choice.
From Science Focus:
Bananas are slightly radioactive because they are rich in potassium, and one of its natural isotopes (variants) is potassium-40, which is radioactive. A lorry full of bananas is radioactive enough to trigger a false alarm on a radiation detector looking for smuggled nuclear weapons.
		
Click to expand...

Looks like this is obviously a pet passion for you - ranting about food, weight, diets, exercise, etc and nothing anyone can say will change your mind so I am declaring myself bored, and out!


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## stefanovic (Mar 18, 2022)

No please, don't go banana shaped on account of me.
Blame it on the fast food giants, the supermarkets, the TV chefs, the politicians, even Michael Mosley, but never me.
The biggest lie we are fed is that more food will give you more energy.
But the body does not work off energy from food. It actually works off entropy. Difficult to understand, I know.


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## BiMGuy (Mar 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			No please, don't go banana shaped on account of me.
Blame it on the fast food giants, the supermarkets, the TV chefs, the politicians, even Michael Mosley, but never me.
The biggest lie we are fed is that food will give you more energy.
But the body does not work off energy from food. It actually works off entropy. Difficult to understand, I know.
		
Click to expand...

Go on then give us the scientific explanation.

Have you ever tried not eating for a few weeks to see what happens?


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## stefanovic (Mar 18, 2022)

This is highly complex, but consider the whole planet.
It does not work off energy from the sun. It works off entropy from the sun.
We are part of the whole mechanism.


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## Foxholer (Mar 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			This is highly complex, but consider the whole planet.
It does not work off energy from the sun. It works off entropy from the sun.
We are part of the whole mechanism.
		
Click to expand...

Ooh! Someone's (re-)discovered Meissner!


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## yandabrown (Mar 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			No please, don't go banana shaped on account of me.
Blame it on the fast food giants, the supermarkets, the TV chefs, the politicians, even Michael Mosley, but never me.
*The biggest lie we are fed is that more food will give you more energy.*
But the body does not work off energy from food. It actually works off entropy. Difficult to understand, I know.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that part is not entirely true, you will not feel more energetic as a result of eating more food, your body will have more energy (Joules) but the excess energy will either be stored or passed through.


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## Carlwm (Mar 18, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Ooh! Someone's (re-)discovered Meissner!
		
Click to expand...

Definitely one of my favourite Eagles.


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## phillarrow (Mar 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			No please, don't go banana shaped on account of me.
Blame it on the fast food giants, the supermarkets, the TV chefs, the politicians, even Michael Mosley, but never me.
*The biggest lie we are fed is that more food will give you more energy.
But the body does not work off energy from food. It actually works off entropy*. Difficult to understand, I know.
		
Click to expand...

This is utter nonsense. I've taught entropy to A level students for over 20 years and it has nothing to do with how the body works.

Entropy is literally defined as the amount of energy that is *not* available to do work. On a molecular level, it defines the randomness of motion of particles. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how the body works.

More food = more fuel = more energy. This is true until you've got excess available energy and the fuel source is then stored as part of the body's long-term metabolic survival processes. This is why excess food = excess fat.

Entropy is a meaningless measure when it comes to the link between food and how the body works. It is literally like saying that the important thing to measure about electricity is how heavy it is!


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## Foxholer (Mar 18, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			...I've taught entropy to A level students for over 20 years...
		
Click to expand...

Not very good at it then? 
Sorry, couldn't resist the deliberate misinterpretation. 

You are totally correct btw. A meaningless measure when it comes to the link between food and how the body works.
'Don't feed the troll' IS relevant though!


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## phillarrow (Mar 18, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Or bad choice.
From Science Focus:
Bananas are slightly radioactive because they are rich in potassium, and one of its natural isotopes (variants) is potassium-40, which is radioactive. A lorry full of bananas is radioactive enough to trigger a false alarm on a radiation detector looking for smuggled nuclear weapons.
		
Click to expand...

So is living in Cornwall!


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## phillarrow (Mar 18, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Not very good at it then? 
Sorry, couldn't resist the deliberate misinterpretation. 

You are totally correct btw. A meaningless measure when it comes to the link between food and how the body works.
'Don't feed the troll' IS relevant though!
		
Click to expand...

😂😂😂 I had to read that twice! 😳😉

Yes, just to confirm, it wasn't the same A level students for 20 years! 🙄😉😂


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## Imurg (Mar 18, 2022)

I had some fruit for lunch today.....


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Mars bar 70p (give or take, not bought one for ages) - 10 bananas about £1.50.
It's all about making the right choices
		
Click to expand...

If you shop in aldi or Lidl you will get 4 mars bars or equivalent for a quid. There in lies part of the problem. Totally agree about making the right choices.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 19, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Or bad choice.
From Science Focus:
Bananas are slightly radioactive because they are rich in potassium, and one of its natural isotopes (variants) is potassium-40, which is radioactive. A lorry full of bananas is radioactive enough to trigger a false alarm on a radiation detector looking for smuggled nuclear weapons.
		
Click to expand...

Don’t sit on a granite worktop either or else your balls will glow. Granite is radioactive as well. Not sure how many calories are in a worktop though 😁


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## chellie (Mar 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			If you shop in aldi or Lidl you will get 4 mars bars or equivalent for a quid. There in lies part of the problem. Totally agree about making the right choices.
		
Click to expand...

Same price I think wherever you shop. Look at the huge crisp and chocolate aisles in Tesco.


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## Foxholer (Mar 19, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Don’t sit on a granite worktop either or else your balls will glow. Granite is radioactive as well. Not sure how many calories are in a worktop though 😁
		
Click to expand...

Or eat anything, or breathe! As that's how (radioactive) Carbon-14 is absorbed! 
Oh, and don't wear or go near luminous watches/clocks either.


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## stefanovic (Mar 19, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Entropy is a meaningless measure when it comes to the link between food and how the body works. It is literally like saying that the important thing to measure about electricity is how heavy it is!
		
Click to expand...

There is more than one way of looking at this. I assume you looking at this from the point of view of physics and not biology.
I hope you take into account that entropy means overall loss, even if a system is boosted from afar as is the case with the sun and the earth.
The earth has to reflect energy or it would have roasted billions of years ago.

Take an overweight hippopotamus like the PM who takes an interest in reducing the weight of the nation, but will never be thin.
Using yoga as an example, how many positions could he achieve?
Very few I imagine.
How many can I do? Several hundred. That's because my weight (9 stones) and flexibility will allow it.
I can easily get into most yoga positions and then my body returns to its original shape with ease. 
It means my body has low entropy.
After exercise, an overweight person will sweat more, whereas I have hardly any sweat.
Paradoxically, an overweight person needs more food.


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## Foxholer (Mar 19, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			There is more than one way of looking at this. I assume you looking at this from the point of view of physics and not biology.
I hope you take into account that entropy means overall loss, even if a system is boosted from afar as is the case with the sun and the earth.
The earth has to reflect energy or it would have roasted billions of years ago.

Take an overweight hippopotamus like the PM who takes an interest in reducing the weight of the nation, but will never be thin.
Using yoga as an example, how many positions could he achieve?
Very few I imagine.
How many can I do? Several hundred. That's because my weight (9 stones) and flexibility will allow it.
I can easily get into most yoga positions and then my body returns to its original shape with ease.
It means my body has low entropy.
After exercise, an overweight person will sweat more, whereas I have hardly any sweat.
Paradoxically, an overweight person needs more food.
		
Click to expand...


Irrelevant twaddle post of the year - so far!


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## phillarrow (Mar 19, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			There is more than one way of looking at this. I assume you looking at this from the point of view of physics and not biology.
I hope you take into account that entropy means overall loss, even if a system is boosted from afar as is the case with the sun and the earth.
The earth has to reflect energy or it would have roasted billions of years ago.

Take an overweight hippopotamus like the PM who takes an interest in reducing the weight of the nation, but will never be thin.
Using yoga as an example, how many positions could he achieve?
Very few I imagine.
How many can I do? Several hundred. That's because my weight (9 stones) and flexibility will allow it.
I can easily get into most yoga positions and then my body returns to its original shape with ease.
It means my body has low entropy.
After exercise, an overweight person will sweat more, whereas I have hardly any sweat.
Paradoxically, an overweight person needs more food.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to sound rude but this post just shows what happens when someone reads something in a book and kind of, partially, sort of, in some small way, thinks they understand it...but the book itself is just made up nonsense to capture the very people who want to think they sound clever and will buy any old garbage science that is sold to them.

The diet and nutrition industry is almost entirely unregulated, so what you get is made up garbage. You really shouldn't believe this stuff... and you certainly shouldn't be trying to repeat it on here, because you just sound silly.

Entropy always relates to thermal energy and, by definition therefore, the movement of particles. And, my reference to thermal energy and the movement of particles is more chemistry than physics. There is, however, no such thing as a biology version of entropy that is to do with hippos! 🙄😂😂😂


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## Foxholer (Mar 19, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			I'm sorry to sound rude but this post just shows what happens when someone reads something in a book and kind, partially, sort of, in some small way, thinks they understand it...but the book itself is just made up nonsense to capture the very people who wants to think they sound clever and buy any old garbage science that is sold to them.
The diet and nutrition industry is almost entirely unregulated, so what you get is made up garbage. You really shouldn't believe this stuff... and your certainly wouldn't be trying to repeat it on here, because you just sound silly.

Entropy always relates to thermal energy and, by definition therefore, the movement of particles
There is my such thing as a biology version of entropy that is to do with hippos! 🙄😂😂😂
		
Click to expand...

While I'm inclined to agree with your first paragraph, Entropy, as a concept (degree of disorder), can be (and is) apply(applied) to environments other than thermodynamics, including Biological Entropy. However, Biological Entropy is totally unrelated to Thermodynamic Entropy. From my limited understanding of BE, it _*can* _be used in relation to evolution processes. The concept of entropy (tendency to disorder) can actually be applied to many 'systems/states' - male tidiness for example! As for entropy and hippos...Flling out of a boat near a pod of Hippos would certainly be likely to increase the entropy of my body!  
So not AWAYS related to thermal energy, but certainly the vast/overwhelming majority of reference to entropy is to Thermodynamic Entropy.


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## phillarrow (Mar 19, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			While I'm inclined to agree with your first paragraph, Entropy, as a concept (degree of disorder), can be (and is) apply(applied) to environments other than thermodynamics, including Biological Entropy. However, Biological Entropy is totally unrelated to Thermodynamic Entropy. From my limited understanding of BE, it _*can* _be used in relation to evolution processes. The concept of entropy (tendency to disorder) can actually be applied to many 'systems/states' - male tidiness for example! As for entropy and hippos...Flling out of a boat near a pod of Hippos would certainly be likely to increase the entropy of my body! 
So not AWAYS related to thermal energy, but certainly the vast/overwhelming majority of reference to entropy is to Thermodynamic Entropy.
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm! I guess I'm coming at it from a scientific definition point of view. Although entropy CAN be used in evolutionary biology, it is more as a bastardisation of the term to fit the principle, as opposed to a strict scientific definition. I take your point though. I suspect this is one where we could talk about it over a pint for a fair length of time, possibly even argue about it, and then realise that we actually basically agree with each other. Trying to do that on an internet forum would take several pages, a few days, and bore the pants of everyone else.  So let's just agree to disagree. 😉😂

P.S. The stuff about hippos. I think the reason why hippos don't do yoga dates back to the 70s. After the love revolution of the 60s, all the hippos got together and said "We're hippos not hippies. No more yoga for us!“


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## Foxholer (Mar 19, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Hmmm! I guess I'm coming at it from a scientific definition point of view. Although entropy CAN be used in evolutionary biology, it is more as a bastardisation of the term to fit the principle, as opposed to a strict scientific definition. I take your point though. I suspect this is one where we could talk about it over a pint for a fair length of time, possibly even argue about it, and then realise that we actually basically agree with each other. Trying to do that on an internet forum would take several pages, a few days, and bore the pants of everyone else.  So let's just agree to disagree. 😉😂

P.S. The stuff about hippos. I think the reason why hippos don't do yoga dates back to the 70s. After the love revolution of the 60s, all the hippos got together and said "We're hippos not hippies. No more yoga for us!“
		
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree - though maybe not that it's a bastardisation. Unless (thermodynamic) entropy can actually be 'measured', it's, imo, simply a concept that's 99.999% applied to thermodynamics. It would likely be applicable to that discussion too!  And I'm happy to actually agree to (pretty much) agree! The random and, almost certainly, unqualified/ignorant abberations (entropy?!) of Stefanovic's posts are simply bizarre!


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## SocketRocket (Mar 19, 2022)

Anyone else think this thread has become a hybrid between utter twaddle and willy waving 😃


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## stefanovic (Mar 20, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Anyone else think this thread has become a hybrid between utter twaddle and willy waving 😃
		
Click to expand...

Then YOU explain why the majority of people in Britain are overweight.
It never used to be the case, so let's hear it.
I feel sure you have no answer.


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## stefanovic (Mar 20, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Although entropy CAN be used in evolutionary biology,
		
Click to expand...

Clearly, Peter Atkins, retired Oxford professor doesn't know what he's talking about.
He links the 2nd Law (entropy) with the start of all life and the end of all life on Earth.
He wasn't the only one. Isaac Asimov is another.




			P.S. The stuff about hippos. I think the reason why hippos don't do yoga dates back to the 70s. After the love revolution of the 60s, all the hippos got together and said "We're hippos not hippies. No more yoga for us!“
		
Click to expand...

How long did that take you?

Now you explain exactly why Britain is overweight.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 20, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Anyone else think this thread has become a hybrid between utter twaddle and willy waving 😃
		
Click to expand...

How about we have neither 👍😮


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## stefanovic (Mar 20, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			How about we have neither 👍😮
		
Click to expand...

You explain the overweight crisis.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 20, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			You explain the overweight crisis.
		
Click to expand...

Not my area of expertise 
I just don’t want twaddle or Willy waving
So put it away please 👍


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## Backache (Mar 20, 2022)

I think one thing we can be 100% certain about. The laws of thermodynamics haven't changed to cause people to get fat.


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## SocketRocket (Mar 20, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Then YOU explain why the majority of people in Britain are overweight.
It never used to be the case, so let's hear it.
I feel sure you have no answer.
		
Click to expand...

I don't need to explain it as it's so obvious. You know the answer, I know the answer and I guess almost everyone knows it.  If it concerns you then either do something about it (other than talking about abstract hypothesis) or accept it as a symptom of people's diet.


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## phillarrow (Mar 20, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Clearly, Peter Atkins, retired Oxford professor doesn't know what he's talking about.
He links the 2nd Law (entropy) with the start of all life and the end of all life on Earth.
He wasn't the only one. Isaac Asimov is another.


Click to expand...

It is simply not possible for that reply, with the quotes from my statement, to have come from anybody who isn't either completely on the wind up, or genuinely unable to understand English.
Either way, I'm out! 👍 I'm off to do the lotus position and contemplate the randomness of particles in hippos! 😉🙄


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## Foxholer (Mar 20, 2022)

Backache said:



			I think one thing we can be 100% certain about. The laws of thermodynamics haven't changed to cause people to get fat.
		
Click to expand...

Certainly not entropy related either! Inertia might be involve though - failure to get off arses and exercise, even simply by meandering around a golf course!


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## stefanovic (Mar 20, 2022)

Just the man I've been waiting for to explain what inertia is.
Can't wait to hear it because it has puzzled scientists for centuries.

Just as I expected, like the people who represent us in government, you don't want to talk about the fat crisis.
Okay, so like them let's brush it under the carpet.

In response to the people who say "*But I like food!*", don't you want to be healthier, happier, and on the whole live longer?

It's still your life and your choices, but remember there is always a price to be paid.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 20, 2022)




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## Imurg (Mar 20, 2022)

Wouldn't it be better if they'd suck the fat right out of you..?🤔

So to speak😋


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 20, 2022)

My theory is that people are overweight now due to technology. I grew up in the 70's and 80's in a one parent household, living with my brother and my dad. There was a chip pan in the house, full of oil, for homemade deep fried chips. The freezer contained Findus crispy pancakes, waffles, pies etc. On Friday nights we'd go to see my mum and get takeaway fish and chips. The biggest difference between then and now is how much technology has progressed. Back then a Spectrum 48k computer with rubber keys was as advanced as it got. Kids were outside playing not sat indoors on I Phones, PS4's or XBox's. There's no secret to not being overweight. You can eat as many calories as you like. As long as you are active enough to burn off 1 more calorie than you take in then you won't put on weight.


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## Rooter (Mar 21, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			The freezer contained Findus crispy pancakes
		
Click to expand...

The only substance in the modern world with a similar internal temperature to a Mcdonalds Apple pie.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2022)

If you smoke to much, you know the possibilities of later life problems including death.
If you drink to much, you know the possibilities of later life problems including death.
If you eat to much, you know the possibilities of later life problems including death.

If you do not understand this when you are an adult, being fat, drunk, of stinking of an ashtray is the least of your problems.

We on this forum are adults, we know what we are doing.We all know the risks. Some of us do occasionally do Sin.
However I am firmly of the ilk that “ all things in moderation“. except in my case double bogeys.


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## stefanovic (Mar 21, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			My theory is that people are overweight now due to technology.
		
Click to expand...

Go along with that.
To expand on this, here is a question.
Why do we have legs?

Firstly, let's dispel the evolutionary idea that humans evolved to walk, then walked to evolve further.
That might have been the case up to the invention of the wheel.
Then humans found that legs became progressively more redundant when it came to finding food.
Why should you walk to the shops when you have a car?
Then humans employed professional dog walkers.
Now they get meals delivered straight to their front door.

Secondly, let's dispel the notion that walking helps keep the heart healthy.
Legs have even been described as the 2nd heart because walking helps the heart with the circulation.
Yet the body contains vestigial organs such as a tailbone and it's only a matter of time before the legs shrink too with new technology to help the heart.


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## stefanovic (Mar 21, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			However I am firmly of the ilk that “ all things in moderation“. except in my case double bogeys.
		
Click to expand...

Misuse of the word ilk.
https://www.nytimes.com/1889/08/04/archives/of-that-ilk.html
"Of that ilk" means "of the place bearing a similar name."


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## Foxholer (Mar 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Go along with that.
To expand on this, here is a question.
Why do we have legs?

Firstly, let's dispel the evolutionary idea that humans evolved to walk, then walked to evolve further.
That might have been the case up to the invention of the wheel.
Then humans found that legs became progressively more redundant when it came to finding food.
Why should you walk to the shops when you have a car?
Then humans employed professional dog walkers.
Now they get meals delivered straight to their front door.

Secondly, let's dispel the notion that walking helps keep the heart healthy.
Legs have even been described as the 2nd heart because walking helps the heart with the circulation.
Yet the body contains vestigial organs such as a tailbone and it's only a matter of time before the legs shrink too with new technology to help the heart.
		
Click to expand...


Thanks for today's contribution of your daily utter twaddle!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Go along with that.
To expand on this, here is a question.
Why do we have legs?

Firstly, let's dispel the evolutionary idea that humans evolved to walk, then walked to evolve further.
That might have been the case up to the invention of the wheel.
Then humans found that legs became progressively more redundant when it came to finding food.
Why should you walk to the shops when you have a car?
Then humans employed professional dog walkers.
Now they get meals delivered straight to their front door.

Secondly, let's dispel the notion that walking helps keep the heart healthy.
Legs have even been described as the 2nd heart because walking helps the heart with the circulation.
Yet the body contains vestigial organs such as a tailbone and it's only a matter of time before the legs shrink too with new technology to help the heart.
		
Click to expand...

Do you have a hobby


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## Foxholer (Mar 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



*Misuse of the word ilk*.
https://www.nytimes.com/1889/08/04/archives/of-that-ilk.html
"Of that ilk" means "of the place bearing a similar name."
		
Click to expand...

More twaddle! That's one (and perhaps the original) description/translation of 'ilk'. And can also refer to family/clan. Now (also) generalised/evolved to 'type'!


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## Fade and Die (Mar 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Go along with that.
To expand on this, here is a question.
Why do we have legs?

Firstly, let's dispel the evolutionary idea that humans evolved to walk, then walked to evolve further.
That might have been the case up to the invention of the wheel.
Then humans found that legs became progressively more redundant when it came to finding food.
Why should you walk to the shops when you have a car?
Then humans employed professional dog walkers.
Now they get meals delivered straight to their front door.

Secondly, let's dispel the notion that walking helps keep the heart healthy.
Legs have even been described as the 2nd heart because walking helps the heart with the circulation.
Yet the body contains vestigial organs such as a tailbone and it's only a matter of time before the legs shrink too with new technology to help the heart.
		
Click to expand...

Have you been watching Wall-e for your ideas?


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## SocketRocket (Mar 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Secondly, let's dispel the notion that walking helps keep the heart healthy.
Legs have even been described as the 2nd heart because walking helps the heart with the circulation.
		
Click to expand...

😂


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## phillarrow (Mar 21, 2022)

I live far more healthily than I used to. I've lost some weight recently and am now at my lightest weight since I was 18. I'm really enjoying feeling fitter and healthier. 
And yet...this thread makes me feel like eating burgers and chocolate and stopping all forms of exercise - I'd rather be fat and die young than turn into this guy! 😉


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## JamesR (Mar 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			You explain the overweight crisis.
		
Click to expand...

A lot of people eat and drink too much, and don’t exercise enough


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## Tashyboy (Mar 21, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Misuse of the word ilk.
https://www.nytimes.com/1889/08/04/archives/of-that-ilk.html
"Of that ilk" means "of the place bearing a similar name."
		
Click to expand...

Personally I prefer the English version not the American. Furthermore I am firmly of the Ilk that quoting America to support your case in the queens English is an own goal. 
quote

In modern use, ilk is used in phrases such as of his ilk, of that ilk, to mean ‘type’ or ‘sort.’ It often, though not necessarily, has negative connotations. The use arose out of a misunderstanding of the earlier, Scottish use in the phrase of that ilk, where it means ‘of the same name or place.’ For this reason, some traditionalists regard the modern use as incorrect. It is, however, the only common current use and is now part of standard English.


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## stefanovic (Mar 26, 2022)

Nope. Ilk is originally a Scottish word meaning of the same clan or location.

I see there is a direct correlation between overweight people and the cars they drive.
overweight people proportionate to cars they drive - Google Search

Some statistics also suggest that overweight people are more at risk (even of death) in crashes.


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## Foxholer (Mar 26, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Nope. Ilk is *originally* a Scottish word meaning of the same clan or location.
...
		
Click to expand...

Originally, Yes, as  posted seemingly eons ago! But, seemingly unlike you, language evolves.
Just refer to posts 278 or 283! Or simply Google 'ilk' to confirm - as well as noting the reference to the 'archaic Scottish' root.

Thanks for today's contribution of your utter twaddle!


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## Foxholer (Mar 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you have a hobby
		
Click to expand...

Apparently walking and posting twaddle! Claims to have walked 9 miles (along the canal?) in an earlier post. And the twaddle posts are plain to see.


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## phillarrow (Mar 26, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Nope. Ilk is originally a Scottish word meaning of the same clan or location.
		
Click to expand...

See post #266, paragraph one. 😉🙄


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## garyinderry (Mar 26, 2022)

I've piggy backed the catholic tradition of lent this year again. 

Decided to kick the biscuits, fizzy drinks, sweets, crisps and chocolate for the duration which is 6 weeks. 

Half way through now and I've lost half a stone. I haven't ever been hungry. Its crazy how many times I've had to say no, you cant eat that now. Its getting much easier as time goes on. The first few days were tough. 

Junk food is like a drug. Its addictive and it drives people to keep consuming it. 

I do plan to cut down my intake when the 6 weeks is up. Its opened my eyes to how much I actually ate.


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## stefanovic (Mar 27, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Originally, Yes, as  posted seemingly eons ago! But, seemingly unlike you, *language evolves*.
		
Click to expand...

And it evolves so much that any word can become a malaprop, contranym or be used in a phrasal verb, but just don't expect everyone to understand what you are saying.

This is what inspired Sir Ernest Gowers to write The Complete Plain Words, so that everyone can understand what is being said.
"Ilk does not mean family or kind or set or name. _Of that ilk_ means that proprietor and property have the same name.
Example: the Knockwinnocks of that ilk means the Knockwinnocks of Knockwinnock.
Common maltreatments are due to ignorance of the meaning of ilk, and partly facetious."

Obviously Gowers did not anticipate that _ilk_ could be used in just about any context on forums.

Back to the original subject. Jacques Peretti and the men who made us fat.


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			And it evolves so much that any word can become a malaprop, contranym or be used in a phrasal verb, but just don't expect everyone to understand what you are saying.

This is what inspired Sir Ernest Gowers to write The Complete Plain Words, so that everyone can understand what is being said.
"Ilk does not mean family or kind or set or name. _Of that ilk_ means that proprietor and property have the same name.
Example: the Knockwinnocks of that ilk means the Knockwinnocks of Knockwinnock.
Common maltreatments are due to ignorance of the meaning of ilk, and partly facetious."

Obviously Gowers did not anticipate that _ilk_ could be used in just about any context on forums.

Back to the original subject. Jacques Peretti and the men who made us fat.







Click to expand...


Thanks for your 'today's utter twaddle' contribution!


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## Imurg (Mar 27, 2022)




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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 27, 2022)

Word to the wise......maybe if nobody replies, he might stop........


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## stefanovic (Mar 27, 2022)

But you love it, so here's a full version.






PS I'm loving it too.


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Word to the wise......maybe if nobody replies, he might stop........

Click to expand...

Tried that a while ago...Didn't work.


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## Voyager EMH (Mar 27, 2022)

I have a 1995 OED that says that the use of "ilk" to mean family, sort or type is colloquial and should be avoided in formal English.
It gives an example of correct use as "Guthrie of that ilk" means Guthrie of Guthrie.

But our language does evolve and I suspect the colloquial use is the meaning most used and understood now.

The one I continue to have a problem accepting is "back-to-back" replacing "nose-to-tail" for consecutive occurrences, one after another (eg birdies etc)
I continue to say "nose-to-tail" and I get the response, "You mean back-to-back?"
I reply, "No."

I'm at the point of giving up on that one.


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2022)

garyinderry said:



			I've piggy backed the catholic tradition of lent this year again.

Decided to kick the *biscuits, fizzy drinks, sweets, crisps and chocolate* for the duration which is 6 weeks.
...
		
Click to expand...

I presume you'll be avoiding other 'foods' of that ilk too.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I presume you'll be avoiding other 'foods' of that ilk too. 

Click to expand...

😳😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Tashyboy (Mar 27, 2022)

Imurg said:



View attachment 41998

Click to expand...

😂😂😂😂😂👍👍


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 27, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Word to the wise......maybe if nobody replies, he might stop........

Click to expand...

If only there was a friendly mod who could put him out of our misery...


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## Crow (Mar 27, 2022)

Why don't people us the ignore function if they're that bothered?

To continuously read and negatively reply makes one just as bad IMHO.


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## Beedee (Mar 27, 2022)

Crow said:



			Why don't people us the ignore function if they're that bothered?

To continuously read and negatively reply makes one just as bad IMHO.
		
Click to expand...

It's a worthwhile topic of conversation, but unfortunately putting the thread starter on ignore hides the whole thread.


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2022)

Beedee said:



			It's a worthwhile topic of conversation, but unfortunately putting the thread starter on ignore hides the whole thread.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed! threads of this ilk DO have their place.


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## phillarrow (Mar 27, 2022)

Beedee said:



			It's a worthwhile topic of conversation, but unfortunately putting the thread starter on ignore hides the whole thread.
		
Click to expand...

That's the shame of it. There IS an interesting discussion to be had about all the factors that have resulted in an increase in the numbers of overweight people, and the possible solutions to it all... it's just become silly because of the OP's insistence on quoting daft things and pretending they're real science that he understands. 

Like so many discussions these days, it all becomes too polarised and the interesting bits get lost amongst the noise.


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## Crow (Mar 27, 2022)

Beedee said:



			It's a worthwhile topic of conversation, but unfortunately putting the thread starter on ignore hides the whole thread.
		
Click to expand...

Then at least skip straight past any posts by the offender


phillarrow said:



			That's the shame of it. There IS an interesting discussion to be had about all the factors that have resulted in an increase in the numbers of overweight people, and the possible solutions to it all... it's just become silly because of the OP's insistence on quoting daft things and pretending they're real science that he understands.

Like so many discussions these days, it all becomes too polarised and the interesting bits get lost amongst the noise.
		
Click to expand...

But surely that noise is just as much the replies of others, which in turn further encourage the offending poster?


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## phillarrow (Mar 27, 2022)

Crow said:



			Then at least skip straight past any posts by the offender


But surely that noise is just as much the replies of others, which in turn further encourage the offending poster?
		
Click to expand...

I can't argue with you there. From my point of view, I'm still new enough to be finding out who is worth having an adult conversation with... and who isn't! 

At first, his replies to my post seemed a bit odd, then they were just plain weird. Eventually, I realised that he's either on a wind up or actually struggling to understand what he's reading/writing, which is why I bowed out of any further attempts at discussion. 
I do reserve the right for a bit of humour though, which is why I chose to reply again at the ridiculousness of his posts about "ilk". 

You are right though, no replies = less noise. 👍


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 27, 2022)

Back on track please
Let’s discuss chubster UK 👍


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## Backache (Mar 27, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Back on track please
Let’s discuss chubster UK 👍
		
Click to expand...

I thought political threads about the PM were banned.


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## phillarrow (Mar 27, 2022)

Okay, so in the spirit of the fact that there IS an interesting discussion to be had about this, I'm going to give what I believe are the main causes for the obesity crisis facing many parts of the western world. 
I'd welcome a *sensible* discussion with anyone about this - especially regarding how/if we can fix it. 

1) Our lifestyles are far more sedantary than they once were. Ironically, at a time when food became more abundant, we began to move less as a result of our changing jobs, transportation etc. 

2) Food is too cheap! I know this might sound odd given the situation regarding food banks in Britain today, but the average spend on food relative to income is far less now than it used to be, and less than many other European countries, such as the Scandinavian countries, which have lower average BMIs. This means we don't need to scrimp and can/do have larger portions. 

3) The lower availability of fresh food on the high street compared with processed food and take aways means that it's harder for certain parts of our communities to access healthier choices. 

4) The strong emphasis on education as an exam-based system has marginalised extra-curricular activities and they are just not given enough focus in the current education system. 

5) And I think this is an underestimated reason - Working households find it easier/more convenient to buy processed foods, because fresh food goes off before the week is out and many of us struggle to fit in going to the shops more than once a week due to our busy lifestyles. 
Since my divorce I've been determined to introduce my kids to healthier, freshly cooked food. I manage it but I do genuinely find it hard some weeks to choose varied meals that don't require me to visit the shops every couple of days. It would be MUCH easier to feed them processed food. 

So, have I missed anything? Got anything wrong? 
And, what is the answer? 

P.S. Sorry it's a bit of an essay.


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## Fade and Die (Mar 28, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Okay, so in the spirit of the fact that there IS an interesting discussion to be had about this, I'm going to give what I believe are the main causes for the obesity crisis facing many parts of the western world.
I'd welcome a *sensible* discussion with anyone about this - especially regarding how/if we can fix it.

1) Our lifestyles are far more sedantary than they once were. Ironically, at a time when food became more abundant, we began to move less as a result of our changing jobs, transportation etc.

2) Food is too cheap! I know this might sound odd given the situation regarding food banks in Britain today, but the average spend on food relative to income is far less now than it used to be, and less than many other European countries, such as the Scandinavian countries, which have lower average BMIs. This means we don't need to scrimp and can/do have larger portions.

3) The lower availability of fresh food on the high street compared with processed food and take aways means that it's harder for certain parts of our communities to access healthier choices.

4) The strong emphasis on education as an exam-based system has marginalised extra-curricular activities and they are just not given enough focus in the current education system.

5) And I think this is an underestimated reason - Working households find it easier/more convenient to buy processed foods, because fresh food goes off before the week is out and many of us struggle to fit in going to the shops more than once a week due to our busy lifestyles.
Since my divorce I've been determined to introduce my kids to healthier, freshly cooked food. I manage it but I do genuinely find it hard some weeks to choose varied meals that don't require me to visit the shops every couple of days. It would be MUCH easier to feed them processed food.

So, have I missed anything? Got anything wrong?
And, what is the answer?

P.S. Sorry it's a bit of an essay.
		
Click to expand...

Point 5 is a big issue, more single parent families struggle to put a “proper” dinner on the table and the availability and cost of takeaways make it an easy option. I was going to say there are too many takeaways but I suppose that number is driven by market forces.
I work a lot in the poorest parts of East London and the amount of chicken shops is depressing, and after school they are all packed with kids buying 5 wings, chips and a drink for £2.50 now I don’t know if that’s going to be their only meal of the evening or if they are having an extra meal but they all look “well fed” 
Maybe there is merit in not having takeaways near schools?


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## RichA (Mar 28, 2022)

Fade and Die said:



			Point 5 is a big issue, more single parent families struggle to put a “proper” dinner on the table and the availability and cost of takeaways make it an easy option. I was going to say there are too many takeaways but I suppose that number is driven by market forces.
I work a lot in the poorest parts of East London and the amount of chicken shops is depressing, and after school they are all packed with kids buying 5 wings, chips and a drink for £2.50 now I don’t know if that’s going to be their only meal of the evening or if they are having an extra meal but they all look “well fed”
Maybe there is merit in not having takeaways near schools?
		
Click to expand...

It is difficult to fathom.
I'm early 50s. Back in the 80s, I remember more of us going out at lunchtime to one of the nearby chippies than staying at school for a cooked lunch or sandwiches.
We ate chips and batter bits for lunch literally every weekday for years.
I remember very few overweight kids at my school. I can only remember 2 or 3, in an era when it would definitely have been commented on. 
We were, however, out on our bikes or walking long distances and playing football, cricket or going swimming during every hour of daylight that we weren't at school. Is that the difference? Sure, we had the ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64, but that was mostly for when it was dark or raining rather than a 4-hour per day habit.


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## Swinglowandslow (Mar 28, 2022)

Voyager EMH said:



			I have a 1995 OED that says that the use of "ilk" to mean family, sort or type is colloquial and should be avoided in formal English.
It gives an example of correct use as "Guthrie of that ilk" means Guthrie of Guthrie.

But our language does evolve and I suspect the colloquial use is the meaning most used and understood now.

The one I continue to have a problem accepting is "back-to-back" replacing "nose-to-tail" for consecutive occurrences, one after another (eg birdies etc)
I continue to say "nose-to-tail" and I get the response, "You mean back-to-back?"
I reply, "No."

I'm at the point of giving up on that one.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, like the football one of "he's overrun the ball".  🙄


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## Swinglowandslow (Mar 28, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Okay, so in the spirit of the fact that there IS an interesting discussion to be had about this, I'm going to give what I believe are the main causes for the obesity crisis facing many parts of the western world.
I'd welcome a *sensible* discussion with anyone about this - especially regarding how/if we can fix it.

1) Our lifestyles are far more sedantary than they once were. Ironically, at a time when food became more abundant, we began to move less as a result of our changing jobs, transportation etc.

2) Food is too cheap! I know this might sound odd given the situation regarding food banks in Britain today, but the average spend on food relative to income is far less now than it used to be, and less than many other European countries, such as the Scandinavian countries, which have lower average BMIs. This means we don't need to scrimp and can/do have larger portions.

3) The lower availability of fresh food on the high street compared with processed food and take aways means that it's harder for certain parts of our communities to access healthier choices.

4) The strong emphasis on education as an exam-based system has marginalised extra-curricular activities and they are just not given enough focus in the current education system.

5) And I think this is an underestimated reason - Working households find it easier/more convenient to buy processed foods, because fresh food goes off before the week is out and many of us struggle to fit in going to the shops more than once a week due to our busy lifestyles.
Since my divorce I've been determined to introduce my kids to healthier, freshly cooked food. I manage it but I do genuinely find it hard some weeks to choose varied meals that don't require me to visit the shops every couple of days. It would be MUCH easier to feed them processed food.

So, have I missed anything? Got anything wrong?
And, what is the answer?

P.S. Sorry it's a bit of an essay.
		
Click to expand...

That is about it, really. Don't see how it can be argued with.
I was a kid in the 50s. I remember being sent by mum to buy a loaf of bread often( no freezer, or even a fridge), so trips to food shops were frequent.
Suppose most of what I ate of that loaf I burned off running to get it!😀.
Hardly saw anyone who was fat.
Years ago most people used their own muscles to move around very much more than now.  (E.g I didn't get in a car until I was 13 yrs old!)


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## chrisd (Mar 28, 2022)

RichA said:



			It is difficult to fathom.
I'm early 50s. Back in the 80s, I remember more of us going out at lunchtime to one of the nearby chippies than staying at school for a cooked lunch or sandwiches.
We ate chips and batter bits for lunch literally every weekday for years.
I remember very few overweight kids at my school. I can only remember 2 or 3, in an era when it would definitely have been commented on. 
We were, however, out on our bikes or walking long distances and playing football, cricket or going swimming during every hour of daylight that we weren't at school. Is that the difference? Sure, we had the ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64, but that was mostly for when it was dark or raining rather than a 4-hour per day habit.
		
Click to expand...

I'm (very) late 60's and can concur with most of what you write, except the ZX and Commodore bit. The thing I'd add is that we didnt get ferried to and from school, I had 3 bus rides to senior school, and some walking too, no lift each day in mums Range Rover. We did definitely eat better, no KFC or Big Mac's and very little between meals and all meals were cooked at home.

Life was very different,  my senior school was all boys and there were only a couple of overweight kids in any class.


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## Crow (Mar 28, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I'm (very) late 60's and can concur with most of what you write, except the ZX and Commodore bit. The thing I'd add is that we didnt get ferried to and from school, I had 3 bus rides to senior school, and some walking too, no lift each day in mums Range Rover. We did definitely eat better, no KFC or Big Mac's and very little between meals and all meals were cooked at home.

Life was very different,  my senior school was all boys and there were only a couple of overweight kids in any class.
		
Click to expand...

Similar here, my senior school was just over 1.5 miles away and unless the weather was vile we used to walk so that we could save the bus money.

Lunch was usually bought from the local VG store and consisted of a Mr Kipling apple pie (about 5" or 6" diameter) and a bag of crisps or similar.


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

I do think its too easy to buy rubbish and too expensive to cook from scratch in general.

However - and this is not an advert - just a suggestion to others who may be looking for a healthy dinner solution. 

For about 9 months or so, me and my wife have been having Gousto meals - they're absolutely amazing.

All ingredients delivered fresh - no wasted ingredients either which is another bug bear of mine! 

62 different recipes to choose from every week - cooking from scratch every time. 

Recommend it to anyone who wants to add some fresh ideas into their meals! We eat such good food these days!


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## Fade and Die (Mar 28, 2022)

RichA said:



			It is difficult to fathom.
I'm early 50s. Back in the 80s, I remember more of us going out at lunchtime to one of the nearby chippies than staying at school for a cooked lunch or sandwiches.
We ate chips and batter bits for lunch literally every weekday for years.
I remember very few overweight kids at my school. I can only remember 2 or 3, in an era when it would definitely have been commented on.
We were, however, out on our bikes or walking long distances and playing football, cricket or going swimming during every hour of daylight that we weren't at school. Is that the difference? Sure, we had the ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64, but that was mostly for when it was dark or raining rather than a 4-hour per day habit.
		
Click to expand...

As someone in their mid 50s I agree with all that, maybe it’s more to do with Phil’s 1st point, a sedentary lifestyle. No raking the streets all hours for kids today, too much on you tube to keep you on your backside. Being stuck indoors when I was young was so unbelievably boring I would rather just kick a ball against a wall around the estate and hope someone would come along to play than stay in.
We always burned as many calories as we consumed that’s for sure.


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## phillarrow (Mar 28, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I'm (very) late 60's and can concur with most of what you write, except the ZX and Commodore bit. The thing I'd add is that we didnt get ferried to and from school, I had 3 bus rides to senior school, and some walking too, no lift each day in mums Range Rover. We did definitely eat better, no KFC or Big Mac's and very little between meals and all meals were cooked at home.

Life was very different,  my senior school was all boys and there were only a couple of overweight kids in any class.
		
Click to expand...




Crow said:



			Similar here, my senior school was just over 1.5 miles away and unless the weather was vile we used to walk so that we could save the bus money.

Lunch was usually bought from the local VG store and consisted of a Mr Kipling apple pie (about 5" or 6" diameter) and a bag of crisps or similar.
		
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These are good points, and I missed them from my list - the location of things like shops and schools.

Many local shops are gone, so people drive to a supermarket, rather than walk to a local shop.

In the push for economic efficiency, small schools have been closed and/or merged with others, which means that far fewer children live within walking distance of their local schools. (Obviously we know that some parents choose to drive even if it's only two minutes away, but it hasn't helped that more children are not within reasonable walking distance from their schools.)


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## Depreston (Mar 28, 2022)

Bdill93 said:



			I do think its too easy to buy rubbish and too expensive to cook from scratch in general.

However - and this is not an advert - just a suggestion to others who may be looking for a healthy dinner solution.

For about 9 months or so, me and my wife have been having Gousto meals - they're absolutely amazing.

All ingredients delivered fresh - no wasted ingredients either which is another bug bear of mine!

62 different recipes to choose from every week - cooking from scratch every time.

Recommend it to anyone who wants to add some fresh ideas into their meals! We eat such good food these days!
		
Click to expand...

Yeah we used hello fresh introductory/re sign up offers they throw around like confetti 

they're brilliant to get even for some new ideas to eat on rotation


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Depreston said:



			Yeah we used hello fresh introductory/re sign up offers they throw around like confetti

they're brilliant to get even for some new ideas to eat on rotation
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree, we eat foods we never dreamed of before! Absolutely love it


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 28, 2022)

A minor observation of the diet of one particular kid in the mid-late 60s.

My parents had very little money to spare so the *only* sweets we had during the week were a Friday night treat when my dad would come home from work with a fudge; a flake; and a Fry’s chocolate cream.  The three of us kids took turns at first choice of chocolate bar of the week.  Otherwise no sweets during the week and also no crisps during the week.

My pocket money was a shilling. On a Saturday morning that bought me my comic and a packet of crisps…with enough left over for a single small chocolate or toffee bar and a few 1d chews (Macgowans ‘green wrapper’)

Lunch was school meals.  Tea often included left over from school dinner as my mum was head cook 🙄


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## stefanovic (Mar 28, 2022)

What we should have learned by now is that the overweight (and their ilk) can become healthier, wealthier and slimmer simply by reducing their intake of foods high in calories.
Except that it isn't going to happen, at least not anytime soon.
When so much cheap fast food is out there and becoming even more available we are all the victims of the food corporations.
A classic example of profit before people.

Whole towns are unfairly named and shamed. Wolverhampton, Sunderland have been mentioned as the 'fattest' places.


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## chrisd (Mar 28, 2022)

I'd add to the list of things that we did that kids rarely do now. I had a paper round a 10/11 years old and then worked in an old fashioned butchers shop from 11 until, at 15, I left school and went to proper work. At the butchers I worked Tuesday, Thursday and Friday after school, and all day Saturday doing deliveries and helping in the shop.


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## stefanovic (Mar 28, 2022)

After school dinners (yuk) it was a treat to get a penny chew on the way home.
But kids don't seem to do that anymore. They go to Mc(aargh).


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			After school dinners (yuk) it was a treat to get a penny chew on the way home.
But kids don't seem to do that anymore. They go to Mc(aargh).
		
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We (in NZ) never had school dinners - which, according to me Deputy Head ex, were (at least in 'modern' times/at her school/had evolved to be) so that school age kids were guaranteed at least 5 'proper' meals per week. Part of the ('60s) parental routine in my home was provision of sandwiches and snacks for the day - or for several days, after we acquired a freezer.
The inference of a general migration from school to McDs seems an exageration! Have you checked that it's the whole school, or even the same ones every day - and are they all obese? I think not!


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## Tashyboy (Mar 28, 2022)

Missis T after Xmas went on a Slimming world diet. Nigh on every meal she has cooked since then she has cooked from scratch. She has lost 13 1/2 lbs and still going strong. Some of the meals have been fantastic. None have been rammel.
 But, she has checked everything. Some things are free, eat as much as you want. Others the sins are horrendous. Having said that the “ education” of the stuff we are shovelling down ours and our kids throats for me is the one single Important thing that should be taught. Slimmers world has an app where you can scan said supermarket item and it tells you how many sins are in that product. Some are astounding.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 28, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			We (in NZ) never had school dinners - which, according to me Deputy Head ex, were (at least in 'modern' times/at her school) so that school age kids were guaranteed at least 5 proper meals per week. Part of the ('60s) parental routine in my home was provision of sandwiches and snacks for the day - or for several days, after we acquired a freezer.
The inference of a general migration from school to McDs seems an exageration! Have you checked that it's the whole school, or even the same ones every day - and are they all obese? I think not!
		
Click to expand...

Our school dinners were fantastic back in the 70’s, it helped that one of your best mates mum was a cook and served the best stuff. 😉😁


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## Bdill93 (Mar 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Missis T after Xmas went on a Slimming world diet. Nigh on every meal she has cooked since then she has cooked from scratch. She has lost 13 1/2 lbs and still going strong. Some of the meals have been fantastic. None have been rammel.
But, she has checked everything. Some things are free, eat as much as you want. Others the sins are horrendous. Having said that the “ education” of the stuff we are shovelling down ours and our kids throats for me is the one single Important thing that should be taught. Slimmers world has an app where you can scan said supermarket item and it tells you how many sins are in that product. Some are astounding.
		
Click to expand...

Slimming world effectively boils down to being a low fat/sugar diet. Really successful for a lot of people I know - well done to Mrs T on her weightloss so far! Top effort!


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Our school dinners were fantastic back in the 70’s, it helped that one of your best mates mum was a cook and served the best stuff. 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, School Dinners have had patchy quality and political interference (both good and bad) since their instigation!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 28, 2022)

Interestingly even I, as one who is supposed to be being more careful with his diet, have managed to lose 5lbs in the last week with absolutely no exercise and without trying. 

And I reflect that what is different from a normal week is that as we are isolating I am not popping out for this and that nice treat or what I really fancy, or for a bar of chocolate (or three) or some packets of crisps.  So this last week no chocolate; no sweets; no crisps, and much reduced carbs intake, and the weight immediately starts dropping off.


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## Leftitshort (Mar 28, 2022)




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## Imurg (Mar 28, 2022)

chrisd said:



			I'd add to the list of things that we did that kids rarely do now. I had a paper round a 10/11 years old and then worked in an old fashioned butchers shop from 11 until, at 15, I left school and went to proper work. At the butchers I worked Tuesday, Thursday and Friday after school, and all day Saturday doing deliveries and helping in the shop.
		
Click to expand...

Did you have one of those bikes with a basket on the front?😋


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 28, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



			Our school dinners were fantastic back in the 70’s, it helped that one of your best mates mum was a cook and served the best stuff. 😉😁
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, my mum was head cook at my primary school then at one of the local secondaries before in the mid-70s through to.late 80s becoming school meals organiser for west Renfrewshire - covering Paisley and a lot of the small ex-mining and manufacturing towns of west Renfrewshire - let’s just say that other than Kilmalcolm and Bridge of Weir most of the towns had high levels of deprivation.  The stories she would bring home when she’d spend a day in Ferguslie Park working with the school cooks…

She knew that many of the kids her schools fed would be having for the school dinner the only proper meal of the day, in fact for many it could be their only meal of the day.  She had it as her mission to educate the children she fed into healthier eating, boy was it a struggle but boy did she work at it.

Her school meals were legend…in fact when she got the job of school meals organiser the kids at the secondary where she was head cook - Mearns Castle for those of the area - got a petition that had hundreds of signatures asking her to stay.  When I spent more time in Mearns, Netherlee and Clarkston area than today I would still find myself bumping into folk of about my age who would eulogise about my mum’s school dinners.  I am very proud of her efforts back then. 

And of course of having mum as school cook is that she’d often find herself bringing home leftover tray of millionaire shortbread or such like


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## Slime (Mar 28, 2022)

phillarrow said:



			Okay, so in the spirit of the fact that there IS an interesting discussion to be had about this, I'm going to give what I believe are the main causes for the obesity crisis facing many parts of the western world.
I'd welcome a *sensible* discussion with anyone about this - especially regarding how/if we can fix it.

1) Our lifestyles are far more sedantary than they once were. Ironically, at a time when food became more abundant, we began to move less as a result of our changing jobs, transportation etc.

2) Food is too cheap! I know this might sound odd given the situation regarding food banks in Britain today, but the average spend on food relative to income is far less now than it used to be, and less than many other European countries, such as the Scandinavian countries, which have lower average BMIs. This means we don't need to scrimp and can/do have larger portions.

3) The lower availability of fresh food on the high street compared with processed food and take aways means that it's harder for certain parts of our communities to access healthier choices.

4) The strong emphasis on education as an exam-based system has marginalised extra-curricular activities and they are just not given enough focus in the current education system.

5) And I think this is an underestimated reason - Working households find it easier/more convenient to buy processed foods, because fresh food goes off before the week is out and many of us struggle to fit in going to the shops more than once a week due to our busy lifestyles.
Since my divorce I've been determined to introduce my kids to healthier, freshly cooked food. I manage it but I do genuinely find it hard some weeks to choose varied meals that don't require me to visit the shops every couple of days. It would be MUCH easier to feed them processed food.

So, have I missed anything? Got anything wrong?
And, what is the answer?

P.S. Sorry it's a bit of an essay.
		
Click to expand...

One thing you left out is laziness.
I'm sure a certain percentage of obese youngsters have parents who can't be bothered to actually cook a decent meal.
I think some kids don't really stand a chance.


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## chrisd (Mar 28, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Did you have one of those bikes with a basket on the front?😋
		
Click to expand...

I certainly did 👍👍


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## stefanovic (Apr 1, 2022)

Michael Mosley on TV last night informing us of the best and worst places to get a good night's sleep.
Best is Guernsey, worst is Kilmarnock. Now where are you going to go for your holidays?
Seriously, there does appear to be a link between sleeping and obesity.
The Link Between Obesity and Sleep Deprivation | Sleep Foundation

A few decades ago we were being told that sleep was wasteful and lazy. You were even a cheat.
Then we had books like the Sleep Revolution which informed us that sleep was very useful for our physical and mental health.
The Sleep Revolution: Transforming Your Life, One Night at a Time | HuffPost Life


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## Slab (Apr 1, 2022)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And of course of having mum as school cook is that she’d often find herself bringing home *leftover tray of millionaire shortbread* or such like 

Click to expand...

Nope, not having it
There's a lot posted on this forum I just shake my head at and don't bother calling out, but... _leftover _millionaire shortbread is definitely not a thing!


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## Tashyboy (Apr 1, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Michael Mosley on TV last night informing us of the best and worst places to get a good night's sleep.
Best is Guernsey, worst is Kilmarnock. Now where are you going to go for your holidays?
Seriously, there does appear to be a link between sleeping and obesity.
The Link Between Obesity and Sleep Deprivation | Sleep Foundation

A few decades ago we were being told that sleep was wasteful and lazy. You were even a cheat.
Then we had books like the Sleep Revolution which informed us that sleep was very useful for our physical and mental health.
The Sleep Revolution: Transforming Your Life, One Night at a Time | HuffPost Life

Click to expand...

If lack of sleep is a link with obesity I would have the body of a space hopper. 😖


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## Voyager EMH (Apr 2, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Michael Mosley on TV last night informing us of the best and worst places to get a good night's sleep.
Best is Guernsey, worst is Kilmarnock. Now where are you going to go for your holidays?
Seriously, there does appear to be a link between sleeping and obesity.
The Link Between Obesity and Sleep Deprivation | Sleep Foundation

A few decades ago we were being told that sleep was wasteful and lazy. You were even a cheat.
Then we had books like the Sleep Revolution which informed us that sleep was very useful for our physical and mental health.
The Sleep Revolution: Transforming Your Life, One Night at a Time | HuffPost Life

Click to expand...

I started watching Michael Mosley's programme, but I fell asleep half way through.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 7, 2022)

Slab said:



			Nope, not having it
There's a lot posted on this forum I just shake my head at and don't bother calling out, but... _leftover _millionaire shortbread is definitely not a thing!



Click to expand...

Oh there was, my mum had to make sure that there was enough for just about everyone - and so there was always a bit left over.   But even if there wasn't she'd make us some


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## Tashyboy (Apr 8, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61021823

Reminds me of  When I worked at Thoresby. There was a guy there called “ Fat Al”. He was small and fat. They measured him one day and he was rounder than he was taller.


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## Newtonuti (Apr 8, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Michael Mosley on TV last night informing us of the best and worst places to get a good night's sleep.
Best is Guernsey, worst is Kilmarnock. Now where are you going to go for your holidays?
Seriously, there does appear to be a link between sleeping and obesity.
The Link Between Obesity and Sleep Deprivation | Sleep Foundation

A few decades ago we were being told that sleep was wasteful and lazy. You were even a cheat.
Then we had books like the Sleep Revolution which informed us that sleep was very useful for our physical and mental health.
The Sleep Revolution: Transforming Your Life, One Night at a Time | HuffPost Life

Click to expand...

This is the reason why quite a few shift workers end up obese and with diabetes. I'm luckily naturally built like a rake.


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## stefanovic (Apr 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61021823
Reminds me of  When I worked at Thoresby. There was a guy there called “ Fat Al”. He was small and fat. They measured him one day and he was rounder than he was taller.
		
Click to expand...

This latest advice, which isn't new, is going to hit the food industry if people do take any notice.
But when do they ever take any notice?


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## Rooter (Apr 8, 2022)

Tashyboy said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61021823

Reminds me of  When I worked at Thoresby. There was a guy there called “ Fat Al”. He was small and fat. They measured him one day and he was rounder than he was taller.
		
Click to expand...


They key here is how/where to measure! Cut and past: 

Explain to people that to measure their waist, they should find the bottom of their ribs and the top of their hips, wrap a tape measure around the waist midway between these points and breathe out naturally before taking the measurement," say the guidelines on identifying people who are overweight and obese. 

I'm taller than I need to be it seems!


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## stefanovic (May 7, 2022)

Britain is on its way to becoming the 2nd most obese nation in the West, after the USA of course.
But we still lag behind Malta and Turkey a bit.
Come on, I know we can do it.
Sorry, only kidding.
Recent rise is put down to the pandemic by Leicester University.

Britain on course to become fattest country in Europe - Daily Record 

To think it all started by our ancestors having barbecues on the African plains, iniviting guests and making eating a social activity.


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## Foxholer (May 8, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			Britain is *on its way* to becoming the *2nd most obese nation in the West*, after the USA of course.
But we still lag behind Malta and Turkey a bit.
Come on, I know we can do it.
Sorry, only kidding.
Recent rise is put down to the pandemic by Leicester University
Britain on course to become fattest country in *Europe* - Daily Record

To think it all started by our ancestors having barbecues on the African plains, iniviting guests and making eating a social activity.
		
Click to expand...

Got some reliable stats? And a reference to a proper analysis for the 'Leicester University' assertion - presumably an association with the likes of delivered (higher fat content) food?
Eating was a social activity (worldwide) far before barbecues on African plains. I presume you actually mean 'early humans cooking'! 
Your post is simply unreliable - as is so often the case!


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## PhilTheFragger (May 8, 2022)

I like grub 👍


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## Voyager EMH (May 8, 2022)

#nosebags4me


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## Imurg (May 8, 2022)

I'm big-boned.......


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## PhilTheFragger (May 8, 2022)

Imurg said:



			I'm big-boned.......[/QUOTE}. I’m in shape
Round is a shape 👍
		
Click to expand...


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## stefanovic (May 11, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Got some reliable stats? And a reference to a proper analysis for the 'Leicester University' assertion - presumably an association with the likes of delivered (higher fat content) food?
		
Click to expand...

Anyting by Tom Yates at Leics U.
Such as: 
Obesity, walking pace and risk of severe COVID-19 and mortality: analysis of UK Biobank (nature.com) 
Even worse when you don't need to walk to fetch food any more. Just get it deliverood. 
Sooner or later they'll find a way to quantum tunnel through your front door to get it straight to you on your couch.




			Eating was a social activity (worldwide) far before barbecues on African plains.
I presume you actually mean 'early humans cooking'
		
Click to expand...

Exactly what I meant, but not worldwide. Where do you think humans first started to evolve?


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2022)

stefanovic said:



			...
*Recent rise is put down to the pandemic* by Leicester University.
...
		
Click to expand...




Foxholer said:



			Got some reliable stats? And a reference to a proper analysis for the 'Leicester University' assertion - presumably an association with the likes of delivered (higher fat content) food?
...
Your post is simply unreliable - as is so often the case!

Click to expand...




stefanovic said:



			Anyting by Tom Yates at Leics U.
Such as:
Obesity, walking pace and risk of severe COVID-19 and mortality: analysis of UK Biobank (nature.com)
...
		
Click to expand...

As usual, you are posting absolute drivel!
That Tom Yates article was about* the effects of obesity on Covid severity*, not the other way around that you asserted (the bold bit above)!


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## stefanovic (May 13, 2022)

I stated that the recent rise in obesity has been put down to the pandemic, then you try to wriggle out of it.
What we have learned so far is that the situation can only get worse even if food prices go up. People will just fill up with junk.
Global obesity is likely to rise to 1 billion by 2030.

Then a right wing politician is saying that the poor don't know how to cook and if they did they can cook a meal for 30 pence.
So when politicians start to blame the poor, I'm going to suggest that they put their own house in order first.
As 2/3rds of them are overweight or obese, no wonder they'd like to scrap the BMI calculator. 

Obesity Statistics - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)


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