# VW cars



## pokerjoke (Sep 22, 2015)

Massive drop in share price and a possible claim scenario on the cards.

Is it just VW?

Do emissions really mean anything in the wider picture as I saw a lorry and a car on the road chucking out enough black smoke for a 1000 cars.
Are these liable for a fine if stopped?


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## Paul77 (Sep 22, 2015)

Can, worms, open, everywhere!! 

What VW did was sneaky. Two schools of thought came out of what I heard today on the news. VW deliberately inserted code to alter the emissions when the car was tested so they could sell more cars that are "eco friendly", or VW, like many, will be feeling the pinch of extremely tight CO2 emissions guidelines set by GOV's across the world knowing only too well they are impossible to adhere to. 

I just don't know how charging folk extra for the CO2 their cars put out is going to help the fight on greenhouse gases or global warming. The USA puts out more Co2 than anyone in the planet. I don't understand why the UK gets such a hard time seeing we're such a tiny protion of the world, yet we likely pay more in motoring than anyone else.


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## Beezerk (Sep 22, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Is it just VW?
		
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That's the main worry, I find it hard to believe VW are the only ones with this scam in operation.


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## Rooter (Sep 22, 2015)

I think a lot of the claims are unrealistic in real world conditions, most of the adverts you see say something along the lines of "MPG claims made in lab conditions" for the consumer, this is not great. There are potentially bigger implications around taxation also, (or road duty whatever!!!) P11D for company car drivers etc, a small change in Co2 emissions can have a huge effect on the pocket of the driver.

shame on VW, i for one am glad they have been caught and am waiting with baited breath to see which company is next to be named and shamed!


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## Paul77 (Sep 22, 2015)

Rooter said:



			I think a lot of the claims are unrealistic in real world conditions, most of the adverts you see say something along the lines of "MPG claims made in lab conditions" for the consumer, this is not great. There are potentially bigger implications around taxation also, (or road duty whatever!!!) P11D for company car drivers etc, a small change in Co2 emissions can have a huge effect on the pocket of the driver.

shame on VW, i for one am glad they have been caught and am waiting with baited breath to see which company is next to be named and shamed!
		
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You make a valid point. Are all the owners of the cars in the UK suddenly going to owe her Majesty more money backdated from when they owned the car because it was found to have been done here too? I bet my left teste on it. I can't see it being only VW that are involved. This sort of thing has a market changing implication. The whole system needs to change.


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## pendodave (Sep 22, 2015)

Having seen what the septics did to BP, I'd be pretty worried if I was VW. Car making is a tough enough industry without punitive fines incoming.

I wouldn't worry to much about post-dated tax implications for us though. Not realistic imho.


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2015)

This will be like banking, ppi etc when it started off with one bank being exposed and then one by one they were all found at fault. All of them will be fiddling the figures, that is what happens when targets such as these are given such weight and bearing. MPG are equally manipulated and utter nonsense.

We need real world testing of cars, carried out by independent bodies out on the roads, not in labs. They will need to be done in one location per continent to ensure consistency and fair play. Not that difficult to set up considering the amount of money sloshing around in the car industry. I am sure the real figures will be a heck of a shock compared to those that are claimed.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 22, 2015)

I wander what the legal implications are with Insurance companies as they offer lower premiums for low emission cars.


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## Region3 (Sep 22, 2015)

Rooter said:



			"MPG claims made in lab conditions"
		
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From what I remember from seeing it on TV, MPG tests are done on a smooth track with the wing mirrors taken off and all the gaps between panels taped over.

Good luck in achieving them on the road! :angry:


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## bladeplayer (Sep 22, 2015)

Well id hazzard a guess if VW are doing it then possibly only possibly Skoda,Audi,Merc etc all under the same umbrella


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## Rooter (Sep 22, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Well id hazzard a guess if VW are doing it then possibly only possibly Skoda,Audi,Merc etc all under the same umbrella
		
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Will that also mean the Lamborghini Aventador i was looking to buy may not actually do the claimed 12mpg combined at 398g/km? Hmm my have to rethink things a little...


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 22, 2015)

Not surprised it happened with a diesel.  The current regulations are making it harder &  harder to make diesels meet emission standards. In addition to often troublesome Exhaust Gas Recirculators & Diesel Particle Filters,  modern diesels have to have a tank of Ad Blue,  aka dilute pigs' pee,  to inject into the exhaust.  This requires a tank in the boot,  which needs refilling every 5,000 miles or so and up to18 sensors to monitor the conditions in the engine &  the flow of said pigs' pee. And if you don't refill the tank the car stops &  won't restart.   So much to go wrong! After a serious DPF problem I dumped my diesel &  bought a car with a small turbo engine.  I believe they are the future.


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## Rooter (Sep 22, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			I dumped my diesel &  bought a car with a small turbo engine.  I believe they are the future.
		
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I think you will find hydrogen and/or electric cars are the future, fossil fueled cars days are numbered. Ok maybe not in my generation, and lets not argue where the electricity comes from for the leccy cars either! LOL but its coming slowly as the technology improves.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 22, 2015)

Region3 said:



			From what I remember from seeing it on TV, MPG tests are done on a smooth track with the wing mirrors taken off and all the gaps between panels taped over.
		
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I believe it's even worse than that, they're not even performed with road-going models of cars. In the EU they're done using pre-production cars, with engine specifications that don't match the production versions.

It's about time this sort of behaviour was challenged. Nobody believes MPG figures quoted by manufacturers yet they're a massive factor in purchasing decisions so they're easily massaged. People have been misled for a long time about this.

What's going to be really interesting now is seeing if buyers are willing to challenge the manufacturers claims and effectively ask for the money back on their vehicle purchases. This is going to get very big and messy.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 22, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Will that also mean the Lamborghini Aventador i was looking to buy may not actually do the claimed 12mpg combined at 398g/km? Hmm my have to rethink things a little...
		
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MPG aint gona be a problem its GPM mate same words just changed around .

One course i was on lately the instructor  said the levels of emission regulation that is set to be brought in across Europe NO manufacturer can meet them , they are talking about fitting 2DPF's etc or second Cat Converter .


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## bigslice (Sep 22, 2015)

Rooter said:



			I think you will find hydrogen and/or electric cars are the future, fossil fueled cars days are numbered. Ok maybe not in my generation, and lets not argue where the electricity comes from for the leccy cars either! LOL but its coming slowly as the technology improves.
		
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sorry but i think you will find hoverboards are the future, or perhaps to go back, possibly a tardis:whoo:


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## Paul77 (Sep 22, 2015)

My BMW 320D is stated to have 60mpg. I get around 54mpg. I reckon that's really good for a 2.0D turbo. My mrs car is a fatal VW polo Bluemotion. Rated at 82mpg, she's lucky if she gets anywhere near my mpg and she does motorway driving. It's a joke. 1st generation DPF too with more trouble than it's worth. 

I love the power of my diesel car but I'm sniffing change in the wind. The gov wanted us all to move away from petrol cars and we all bought diesels because they were cheaper to tax based emissions, and now it's looking like it's all going to be thumped on it's head with htis new revelation. It's all just a ploy to get more money out of the road users who can't do without their cars.


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## GreiginFife (Sep 22, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Well id hazzard a guess if VW are doing it then possibly only possibly Skoda,Audi,Merc etc all under the same umbrella
		
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Not so sure Merc are part of VAG Bill.
I would probably suggest that probablity is that Seat, Skoda, Audi and Lambo are in the same boat. Not so sure that Merc or BM will be, I have an A220 AMG (diesel) and at 115g/Km is quite high compared to the A3 I was looking at with comparable engine size/power which was booked at 107g/Km.


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## Jimaroid (Sep 22, 2015)

This is having an incredible effect on the stock market. City firms are predicting this could lead to the end of diesel vehicles altogether and there seems to be a massive selloff in operation from vehicle manufacturers to mining companies. There's definitely much more to this than Volkswagen.


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## Twire (Sep 22, 2015)

GreiginFife said:



			Not so sure Merc are part of VAG Bill.
I would probably suggest that probablity is that Seat, Skoda, Audi and Lambo are in the same boat. Not so sure that Merc or BM will be, I have an A220 AMG (diesel) and at 115g/Km is quite high compared to the A3 I was looking at with comparable engine size/power which was booked at 107g/Km.
		
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Porsche are also part of the VAG.


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## Hobbit (Sep 22, 2015)

Brand new Passat cc GT, with jacuzzi/glitter ball/terrazza, arrived on the drive yesterday afternoon. So looking forward to the recall.


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## patricks148 (Sep 22, 2015)

Twire said:



			Porsche are also part of the VAG.
		
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And Seat i think.

but wasn't this in the US where they have much tighter Emission  requirements and VW don't have a big market share, unlike here in Europe


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## Beezerk (Sep 22, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Brand new Passat cc GT, with jacuzzi/glitter ball/terrazza, arrived on the drive yesterday afternoon. So looking forward to the recall.
		
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Lol am I glad I chose a crap gas guzzling van as my current company vehicle.


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## williamalex1 (Sep 22, 2015)

HIDs is just back from a test drive in the Audi Q3 Quatro she's thinking of buying. So we'll hold fire to see if Audi are involved. 


Are petrol cars involved in this scandal ??? .


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 22, 2015)

Don't think so. Just diesel.


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## Robster59 (Sep 22, 2015)

Different cars of the same group have pretty much the same engine.  I have a Skoda Superb which is really a re-bodied Passat with their eco-engine.  Chose because I'm a company car driver and the emission levels have a big impact on the tax I pay.  
I think if the Government did try to retrospectively charge drivers for the extra taxes if the emission levels were found to be misrepresented then VAG would be bombarded by lawsuits for misrepresenting the figures. 

I can't see it just being VAG to be honest.  If VAG struggle to make a low emission engine then you can bet all the other manufacturers will be in the same boat.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 22, 2015)

Bottom line is. Which engines are we talking about in particular.

reason being, yes it is VW. But they supply engines to Lord knows how many differant car makers. IE SEAT,  of which I drive the Leon FR.


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## pokerjoke (Sep 22, 2015)

Robster59 said:



			Different cars of the same group have pretty much the same engine.  I have a Skoda Superb which is really a re-bodied Passat with their eco-engine.  Chose because I'm a company car driver and the emission levels have a big impact on the tax I pay.  
I think if the Government did try to retrospectively charge drivers for the extra taxes if the emission levels were found to be misrepresented then VAG would be bombarded by lawsuits for misrepresenting the figures. 

I can't see it just being VAG to be honest.  If VAG struggle to make a low emission engine then you can bet all the other manufacturers will be in the same boat.
		
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Good point

Does anyone think it could be the end of VW


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Good point

Does anyone think it could be the end of VW
		
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VW are massive ( well VAG ) - they will prob pay some sort of fine but will continue to be one of the biggest car company in the world mate 

The consumers on the whole prob don't care as long as the quality of the car stay


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## ger147 (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			VW are massive ( well VAG ) - they will prob pay some sort of fine but will continue to be one of the biggest car company in the world mate 

The consumers on the whole prob don't care as long as the quality of the car stay
		
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Nearly 40% of their share value wiped out in 2 days and fines rumoured to be in the billions. Wouldn't fancy being a shareholder right now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

ger147 said:



			Nearly 40% of their share value wiped out in 2 days and fines rumoured to be in the billions. Wouldn't fancy being a shareholder right now.
		
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Oh it won't be cheap - no doubt about it


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## williamalex1 (Sep 22, 2015)

Will this effect the ECO road tax discounts ??.


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 22, 2015)

Good time to be buying shares in VW? Or maybe wait a few weeks until the fines in the US are announced and then buy. Can only think that the drop in the share price will only be a short term hit and that medium to longer term things will rebound. Anyone got a few quid they want to lend me to invest?


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## Odvan (Sep 22, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Good time to be buying shares in VW? Or maybe wait a few weeks until the fines in the US are announced and then buy. Can only think that the drop in the share price will only be a short term hit and that medium to longer term things will rebound. Anyone got a few quid they want to lend me to invest?
		
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Someone mentioned the BP 'crisis' earlier. Turns out it would have been a great investment to buy shares in them when the 'crisis' was at its worst. You'd have doubled your money (or there and there abouts) after a few years I think, but only the bigger bucks would have been a good return over that period of time. Certainly not worth a smaller sum though.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 23, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			Will this effect the ECO road tax discounts ??.
		
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You'd assume so.


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## Imurg (Sep 23, 2015)

I suspect, if it means consumers have to pay more, it will come from the 5 billion VW have put aside.
I doubt Joe Public will have to pay it.


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## Paul77 (Sep 23, 2015)

I'd suspect that it would apply to the Audi cars that have that engine in them too.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 23, 2015)

GreiginFife said:



Not so sure Merc are part of VAG Bill.
I would probably suggest that probablity is that Seat, Skoda, Audi and Lambo are in the same boat. Not so sure that Merc or BM will be, I have an A220 AMG (diesel) and at 115g/Km is quite high compared to the A3 I was looking at with comparable engine size/power which was booked at 107g/Km.
		
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No,  you are correct Greig they are not ,
The same company Motor Distribuitiors Ltd use to have the distribuition  franchise over here for them , but when they sold out it went to Volkswagen Group Ireland , thats where i was mistaken ..
Looking forward to the next meeting i am  going to ..
Will eventually mean alot more work for me as i do parts & warranty in the dealership , recalls galore .. :angry:


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## Slime (Sep 23, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			And Seat i think.

*but wasn't this in the US* where they have much tighter Emission  requirements and VW don't have a big market share, unlike here in Europe
		
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Yes, in the USA the emissions requirements are far more stringent than in Europe and I heard on the news that European based vehicles are unlikely to be recalled.
I also heard that it only affects VWs, Audis and some Porsches, so, maybe it's a problem with the larger diesel engines.
It'll be interesting to see whether they pull out of buying the Red Bull F1 team now.


*Slime*.

P.S. I'm getting a used Golf Diesel delivered tomorrow!


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## Foxholer (Sep 23, 2015)

bladeplayer said:



			Well id hazzard a guess if VW are doing it then possibly only possibly Skoda,Audi,Merc etc all under the same umbrella
		
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Mercedes is not part of the VW group!

Audi, Skoda and Seat could well be affected though.


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## Region3 (Sep 23, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Mercedes is not part of the VW group!

Audi, Skoda and Seat could well be affected though.
		
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Don't forget about all the Lamborghini diesels


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## SteveJay (Sep 23, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			Good point

Does anyone think it could be the end of VW
		
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Possibly given the extent of the potential fines and compensation being bandied about, especially if US citizens get the chance to make personal claims, which seems may be a possibility.

Even the German government are now implicated. I read today that some commentators in the know think this could actually be the start of the end of diesels, especially if, as we suspect, others manufacturers are up to the same tricks.


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## full_throttle (Sep 23, 2015)

listening to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 this afternoon, one listener questioned.. if VW have to cheat to bet the emissions how many others? 

I BMW and Vauxhall can produce similar sized engine with low emissions why can't VW as one of the largest car companies in the world?


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## Khamelion (Sep 23, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Don't forget about all the Lamborghini diesels 

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Not quite Lamborghini diesels but take a look on You Tube for Coal Rollers, Diesel powered dragsters, not I'm fairly sure they'd fail emissions tests.


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## williamalex1 (Sep 23, 2015)

BBC 4 have an interesting/related programme at 9 tonight.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 23, 2015)

Seeing as I know nowt about engines what so ever. If this has been done on VW Diesel engines. What's to say it's not been done on petrol engines.


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## williamalex1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			Seeing as I know nowt about engines what so ever. If this has been done on VW Diesel engines. What's to say it's not been done on petrol engines.
		
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 See posts 24 /25.


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## Lump (Sep 24, 2015)

I wonder if any other manufacturers will jump forward to out themselves before they are found out and named and shamed. I can't believe for one minute V dub are the only company playing this game


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## ger147 (Sep 24, 2015)

So did Herbie really go to Monte Carlo or is that just another VW lie?


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## williamalex1 (Sep 24, 2015)

ger147 said:



			So did Herbie really go to Monte Carlo or is that just another VW lie?
		
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Maybe just an omission of emissions


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## CliveW (Sep 25, 2015)

I see Red Bull are going ahead with VW engines...


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## Hobbit (Sep 25, 2015)

Robster59 said:



			I think if the Government did try to retrospectively charge drivers for the extra taxes if the emission levels were found to be misrepresented then VAG would be bombarded by lawsuits for misrepresenting the figures..
		
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pokerjoke said:



			Good point

Does anyone think it could be the end of VW
		
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With fines rumoured to be in the billions and, potentially, lots of company car drivers being chased for thousands backdated company car tax + the additional Tort cases in the US... Cue VW retrenching by selling off the likes of SEAT and Skoda @ knockdown prices just to stay alive?


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## Smiffy (Sep 25, 2015)

Has anybody wondered why Diesel fuel is cheaper at the pumps than petrol recently???


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## chrisd (Sep 25, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Has anybody wondered why Diesel fuel is cheaper at the pumps than petrol recently???
		
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I assumed it was because I bought a diesel car on retirement last year and Mr Osborne told them to be kind to me?


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## CliveW (Sep 25, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Has anybody wondered why Diesel fuel is cheaper at the pumps than petrol recently???
		
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I have always wondered why diesel was dearer than petrol. In the early 1980s my father in law got his first diesel car, a Renault 18, and deisel was considerably cheaper than petrol. It is inly with the popularity of diesel cars that the price of diesel has risen above petrol.


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## Smiffy (Sep 26, 2015)

CliveW said:



			I have always wondered why diesel was dearer than petrol. In the early 1980s my father in law got his first diesel car, a Renault 18, and deisel was considerably cheaper than petrol. It is inly with the popularity of diesel cars that the price of diesel has risen above petrol.
		
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I reckon the oil companies are trying to offload stocks of Diesel fuel because something is "around the corner"....


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## Slime (Sep 26, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I reckon the oil companies are trying to offload stocks of Diesel fuel because something is "around the corner"....
		
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Ooooh ................ I love a conspiracy theory!
I wonder how many other manufactures are clenching right now?
I bet VW are not alone in this.

*Slime*.


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## chrisd (Sep 26, 2015)

I took my car to the dealer the other day for a minor job and they had it in for over an hour and a half finding the computer code and doing a software update - conspiracy theory's its diesel but a Vauxhall?


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## 6inchcup (Sep 27, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I took my car to the dealer the other day for a minor job and they had it in for over an hour and a half finding the computer code and doing a software update - conspiracy theory's its diesel but a Vauxhall?
		
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thats funny,i had a call from my dealer also vauxhall last Tues asking if they could bring my service forward a month,they did it last fri with complementary full valet and control audio upgrade !!! package to stop signal drift,cars 2 years old thinking about it ,now seems strange.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 27, 2015)

chrisd said:



			I assumed it was because I bought a diesel car on retirement last year and Mr Osborne told them to be kind to me?
		
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Eeee that could of been me that wrote that.&#128513;


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 27, 2015)

The really serious thing about this is that it exemplifies corporate arrogance in it's dismissal and illegal circumvention of legislation as being an inconvenient barrier to increasing profit, and it's control (real and attempted) of government.  Oh yes - the free market and global corporates - aren't they just marvellous - what would we do without them!


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## Whereditgo (Sep 28, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh yes - the free market and global corporates - aren't they just marvellous - what would we do without them!
		
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Probably the same as Greece! :thup:


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## Foxholer (Sep 28, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The really serious thing about this is that it exemplifies corporate arrogance in it's dismissal and illegal circumvention of legislation as being an inconvenient barrier to increasing profit, and it's control (real and attempted) of government.  Oh yes - the free market and global corporates - aren't they just marvellous - what would we do without them!
		
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That's just total rubbish!

In fact, I believe such manipulation and deception is more likely to happen in Government controlled industries and where the market isn't actually 'free'!


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## bladeplayer (Sep 28, 2015)

2.1 million Audi's have the software . just awaiting Skoda & Seat to come out .. 

Then other franchises will be busy checking software updates etc


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			That's just total rubbish!

In fact, I believe such manipulation and deception is more likely to happen in Government controlled industries and where the market isn't actually 'free'!
		
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Like the financial services and banking industry - and in the UK don't we just love the power companies.  In any case - I'm not sure that there are any government controlled industries left in the UK


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## williamalex1 (Sep 28, 2015)

Will the price of the cars involved be reduced ?. HID is in the process of buying an Audi, just wondering :smirk:.


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 28, 2015)

What I'd like to know is what will happen.  OK,  they recall the cars &  remove the offending software.  But what you've got then is a car which doesn't meet current emission standards &  won't pass its next MOT. Do they then have to alter the engine management, add more filters or simply make sure the car runs as it did under test conditions? If the latter,  the result is likely to be a decline in performance and/or deterioration in fuel consumption. This,  in turn,  will result in thousands of disgruntled customers,  all of whom will have a claim for misrepresentation against VW. There will soon be more companies specialising in making claims against VW than there are PPI claims companies -  in fact they'll probably be the same companies. This is going to run &  run!


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## williamalex1 (Sep 28, 2015)

Maninblack4612 said:



			What I'd like to know is what will happen.  OK,  they recall the cars &  remove the offending software.  But what you've got then is a car which doesn't meet current emission standards &  won't pass its next MOT. Do they then have to alter the engine management, add more filters or simply make sure the car runs as it did under test conditions? If the latter,  the result is likely to be a decline in performance and/or deterioration in fuel consumption. This,  in turn,  will result in thousands of disgruntled customers,  all of whom will have a claim for misrepresentation against VW. There will soon be more companies specialising in making claims against VW than there are PPI claims companies -  in fact they'll probably be the same companies. This is going to run &  run!
		
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So should the garage HID is buying from declare any upcoming problems with the Audi they are selling her .Will it  be within current emission levels when retested ?.


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 28, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			So should the garage HID is buying from declare any upcoming problems with the Audi they are selling her .*Will it  be within current emission levels when retested* ?.
		
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I think the answer to that is that,  at the moment,  nobody knows.


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## bladeplayer (Sep 28, 2015)

Havent heard anything from VW yet, keep in mind the regulations in US are a lot lower than Europe at the min m so European cars might not have same extent of problems..
At a meeting of one of our other franchises last yr the guy told us there are no diesel cars that can make the next regulations (Euro 6) its all going to be turbo petrol & electric etc ..

What can they do ? possibly a second cat converter  or DPF defo will effect performance & fuel consumption im told .. 
Will cars still fall in same low tax band ? possibly not , then car doesn't meet the spec it was sold under then more law suits ..

Tough times for VW but self inflicted for ones who set their partners standards so high .. 

A brand built on trust that no longer can be trusted is in big bother .. IMO


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 28, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			So should the garage HID is buying from declare any upcoming problems with the Audi they are selling her .Will it  be within current emission levels when retested ?.
		
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Well since VW are now saying some millions of Audis have the same software I'd certainly be asking.


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## Maninblack4612 (Sep 29, 2015)

Interesting article here http://www.dieselcarmagazine.co.uk/features/euro-6-understanding-the-new-regulations/ about the problems caused by Euro 6. Personally,  I think that diesel vehicles will become so complicated &  prone to going wrong that there will be a severe decline in their use with people switching to cars with small,  turbo charged,  engines. I changed from a 1.9 turbo diesel to a 1.4 turbo petrol which gives almost the same performance,  although,  with the lower torque, you have to keep the revs high &  drive it a bit like a formula 1. That's always been my driving style anyway,  I'm a 68 year old boy racer!


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## Beezerk (Oct 1, 2015)

Listening to the "experts" on the radio yesterday I'm still confused how they're going to fix this.
Yes it's a software re-flash, but are they going to try and get general driving conditions to match the rigged test results or just get rid of the dodgy test mode which fiddles the figures? Not one guy on the radio yesterday gave a straight answer.


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## Hobbit (Oct 1, 2015)

Bearing in mind company car tax is a calculation based on the value of the car and its emissions. I'm very interested to see how this pans out. In theory, HMRC could come after me for 7yrs worth of underpayment.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 1, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			Listening to the "experts" on the radio yesterday I'm still confused how they're going to fix this.
Yes it's a software re-flash, but are they going to try and get general driving conditions to match the rigged test results or just get rid of the dodgy test mode which fiddles the figures? Not one guy on the radio yesterday gave a straight answer.
		
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I'm guessing that all they will be able to do is get rid of the software fiddle so that the test shows the actual emissions.  I'm wondering how many owners of affected vehicles care more about the environmental impact their car has and will continue to have than the will care about the  subsequent additional cost of owning it. Because vw won't be able to do much if anything about the actual emissions but would be able to compensate owners - or maybe give money back.  Wonder how many will take the money and keep the car.

Interesting to see what transpires and if other manufacturers have been doing same thing because if vw engineers can't produce a compliant engine giving performance they need to compete then why would we expect any of their competitors to be able to build one


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## Maninblack4612 (Oct 1, 2015)

As I see it one of two situations will exist.  1. The software will be capable of being altered to meet emissions standards. This will inevitably give rise to an increase in fuel consumption &  a class action by owners would oblige VW to compensate every owner who bought one of the rigged vehicles.  2. The cars can't be fixed to bring emissions within the standard.  In this case it is possible that an amnesty could be given to all drivers who unknowingly bought the non complying vehicles,  along with the levying of an astronomical fine against VW for knackering the environment. All this would do is to add to the huge number of earlier manufactured vehicles that don't have to comply with the new standards.  What's the alternative?  Fail every VW at the next MOT? Force VW to fit new engines to all affected vehicles? It will be interesting to see how this unfolds but,  whatever happens,  the cost could finish VW and force it to be taken over by another company.


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## bladeplayer (Oct 1, 2015)

Dealers are going to be told what recall repairs have to be done in the next few days seemingly..


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## bladeplayer (Oct 1, 2015)

Just got handed the paperwork , alota reading  alota paperwork for me ,every cloud means alota work for the dealership


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## Slime (Oct 1, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Bearing in mind company car tax is a calculation based on the value of the car and its emissions. I'm very interested to see how this pans out. *In theory, HMRC could come after me for 7yrs worth of underpayment.*

Click to expand...

I think it more likely that HMRC will calculate all tax underpayments and sue VW for that whilst leaving individuals alone.

*Slime*.


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## MarkA (Oct 1, 2015)

Imurg said:



			I suspect, if it means consumers have to pay more, it will come from the 5 billion VW have put aside.
I doubt Joe Public will have to pay it.
		
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 You are being very naive if you don't think VAG won't put their prices up and if diesel testing costs and the cost to meet emission controls increase then all manufacturers will, so basically the public will pay in the long run. Be interesting to see what the Govt does about current VAG owners cars not meeting their  stated emissions!


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## williamalex1 (Oct 1, 2015)

We just cancelled the Audi Q3 we were in the middle of buying. The salesman tried to tell us that the Q3 wasn't on the list. 
He was stuck for words when I produced a newspaper cutting showing it was on the list.


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## ger147 (Oct 1, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			We just cancelled the Audi Q3 we were in the middle of buying. The salesman tried to tell us that the Q3 wasn't on the list. 
He was stuck for words when I produced a newspaper cutting showing it was on the list.
		
Click to expand...

That's the best thing about the internet these days, so easy to catch folk out telling porkies.


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## Beezerk (Oct 1, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			We just cancelled the Audi Q3 we were in the middle of buying. The salesman tried to tell us that the Q3 wasn't on the list. 
He was stuck for words when I produced a newspaper cutting showing it was on the list.
		
Click to expand...

I'd be tempted to complain to audi that the message of honesty hasn't quite sunk in yet lol.


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## bladeplayer (Oct 1, 2015)

williamalex1 said:



			We just cancelled the Audi Q3 we were in the middle of buying. The salesman tried to tell us that the Q3 wasn't on the list. 
He was stuck for words when I produced a newspaper cutting showing it was on the list.
		
Click to expand...

Sure its going to come with a warranty , if they sell you it conforming to a tax bracket & it no longer does that , they will be liable for the car 
Would only be an issue for private sale , even then the repair will be a warrant recall , the tax implications are your own responsibility then tho..

As for dealers , currently they have as much info as any1 else ..


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## MegaSteve (Oct 1, 2015)

Their company spokesperson was on the telly yesterday... Olaf Lies... 
I kid you not...


Wish this had broken cover a couple of months ago... 
As I am sure when renewing her car recently she most probably wouldn't have chosen diesel again...

Think the end for diesel cars is on the horizon...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34407670


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