# England Vs Scotland footy



## Rooter (Aug 12, 2013)

So with under 7 days to go until the premier league kicks off, why on earth is there an international friendly on? this must be a managers nightmare!!

So go on then, lets get predicting!!

1-1


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 12, 2013)

As Gordon Strachan said.... "Scotland does not consider this a friendly"!



1-0 to us!


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## Paul_Stewart (Aug 12, 2013)

Wembley has been re-turfed since the mid 70s in case any Scottish fans need replacements for the souvenirs kept in fridges across the nation.


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## Birchy (Aug 12, 2013)

Why do we persist with these meaningless friendlies against minnows. Waste of time.


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## jimbob.someroo (Aug 12, 2013)

Half time 0-0.

Full time England 1-0 Scotland.

#321boring


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## Alan (Aug 12, 2013)

More worried about trouble than the score, feeling its going to be a riot. Hope nobody gets seriously hurt.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 12, 2013)

If you look at the names of the England squad and the names of the Scotland squad it should be no contest.
Factor in the pride of playing for your country and team spirit it may be quite close


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## ger147 (Aug 12, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Why do we persist with these meaningless friendlies against minnows. Waste of time.
		
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You would have to ask Strachan about that.


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## My_HarrisTweed_Cap (Aug 12, 2013)

If there is nothing less than a convincing England win then Hodgson should call it a day if he can't whip a shockingly bad Scotland team.


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## Darth Fader (Aug 12, 2013)

2-1 for Scotland.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 12, 2013)

a Scotland team shockingly bad enough to beat Croatia away in a World Cup qualifier 

2-1 Scotland


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## Birchy (Aug 12, 2013)

ger147 said:



			You would have to ask Strachan about that.
		
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1 hour 13 minutes for that 

The bait was too obvious maybe 

FWIW I reckon the game will be a struggle to watch with two poor teams struggling to break each other down.


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## SocketRocket (Aug 12, 2013)

Should be a riveting game:  
	View attachment 7160


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 12, 2013)

My_HarrisTweed_Cap said:



			If there is nothing less than a convincing England win then Hodgson should call it a day if he can't whip a shockingly bad Scotland team.
		
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Is Hodgson not due a long service medal soon.


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## sev112 (Aug 12, 2013)

Personally I thought Scotland have been looking pretty good in recent years
Shouldn't have got rid of that Andy Robinson as coach though ...


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 12, 2013)

My_HarrisTweed_Cap said:



			If there is nothing less than a convincing England win then Hodgson should call it a day if he can't whip a shockingly bad Scotland team.
		
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I can't remember the last time England has a convincing win and it will probably be a contest to who can be the least bad on the night.  I suspect Spain won't lose much sleep over it if they watch the lowlights.


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## williamalex1 (Aug 12, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is Hodgson not due a long service medal soon.
		
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Medical :lol:


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 12, 2013)

2-1 England in a dull meaningless game. Would love to see an full blown England Scotland fixture with something like WC qualification on it. Time we've had all the substitutions tomorrow it will be a training match


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 13, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			. Time we've had all the substitutions tomorrow it will be a training match
		
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Friendlies are training matches from the first whistle. It always amazes me that FAs have the cheek to charge anything more than a tenner for people to watch a training match, and people are stupid enough to pay. They should be limited to a tenner at most and target school kids so they can see the game.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 13, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			Friendlies are training matches from the first whistle. It always amazes me that FAs have the cheek to charge anything more than a tenner for people to watch a training match, and people are stupid enough to pay. They should be limited to a tenner at most and target school kids so they can see the game.
		
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Sounds a bit like you are getting your excuses in if you lose.

I watched the intensity of Gerrard and his team mates playing in the Liverpool/Celtic friendly.
They are proud professionals and were trying their hardest to win that game.


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## ger147 (Aug 13, 2013)

Before I make my statement re. the football match, I am Scottish.  I am not anti-English in any way, shape or form.  In fact, I love England, it's one of my favourite countries in the world.  I have worked there in the past, spent many happy holidays there and some of the closest members of my family were born and live there.

Now that the English tourist board statement is out of the road D), to the football match.  There is no such thing as a FRIENDLY game of football between Scotland and England, there just isn't.

The match may not be part of an official competition but both sets of players will be bursting a gut to try and win the match and no quarter will be given or expected.  It's not a training exercise, a run out, a chance to blood new players or try out new tactics and/or formations.  It's Scotland vs England!!


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## Wildrover (Aug 13, 2013)

Haven't watched an England game since the world cup in SA, if they can't be bothered to try then I can't be bothered to watch, I can't see tomorrow's "Clash of the titans" changing that. I think my cooker needs cleaning which sounds more entertaining.


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## Rooter (Aug 13, 2013)

why is it 4 days before the premier league kicks off though?! madness..


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## Fader (Aug 13, 2013)

Rooter said:



			why is it 4 days before the premier league kicks off though?! madness..
		
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Money will be the answer to that one...

Personally can't stand watching England friendlies or qualifiers the team is to predictable and won't win a thing until they realise they need to write of 2014 as an exercise to blood youngsters but they won't do it instead picking the usual supsects to usually under perform.

Will stick with watching the other country in my blood Italy for football entertainment.


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## cookelad (Aug 13, 2013)

Fader said:



			Money will be the answer to that one...

Personally can't stand watching England friendlies or qualifiers the team is to predictable and won't win a thing until they realise they need to write of 2014 as an exercise to blood youngsters but they won't do it instead picking the usual supsects to usually under perform.
		
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Still think the sponsors of the England team have too much say in who plays, it's the only reason I can come up with for Rooney continually getting picked in South Africa t'other year despite spending 270 minutes walking around the oppositions D. I think the sponsors must pressure the boss into playing Gerrard, Rooney etc even when their form is so shocking they wouldn't make a pub side  as they put bums on seats in the stadium and in front of the telly!


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## Beezerk (Aug 13, 2013)

England are pi$$ poor, Scotland even worse. I'd rather soil myself mid round than watch this game :thup:


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## SaintHacker (Aug 13, 2013)

ger147 said:



			There is no such thing as a FRIENDLY game of football between Scotland and England, there just isn't.
		
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Is the correct answer. 3-0 England, Rickie Lambert hat trick to bury the Scots!


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## mikee247 (Aug 13, 2013)

Wildrover said:



			Haven't watched an England game since the world cup in SA, if they can't be bothered to try then I can't be bothered to watch, I can't see tomorrow's "Clash of the titans" changing that. I think my cooker needs cleaning which sounds more entertaining.
		
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I have to agree I simply cant be bothered with them any more... they are complete wasters.... England is my country, I love it dearly and I am very patriotic but when I watch or watched us playing "football" in recent times I almost felt embarrassed..... The last world cup etc was the tipping point for me....overpaid over rated bunch of prima donners who have no idea what its like to fight or represent your country. A few weeks in Helmand should be on their training schedule and might draw a bit of pride and passion out of them!! I def would wast my money watching them live or taking my kids to see them at this moment in time. They should pop over to Alastair Cooke's mob and take a leaf out of the cricket teams book on being a professional sportsmen!!!  :rant:


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2013)

Wildrover said:



			Haven't watched an England game since the world cup in SA, *if they can't be bothered to try then I can't be bothered to watch*, I can't see tomorrow's "Clash of the titans" changing that. I think my cooker needs cleaning which sounds more entertaining.
		
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How do you know they're not trying if you've not watched them for years?

This will not be a friendly friendly.

My heart says England to win 4-0, my head says England to win 4-0. 4-0 it is then!

*Slime*.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 13, 2013)

Beezerk said:



			England are pi$$ poor, Scotland even worse. I'd rather soil myself mid round than watch this game :thup:
		
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Look, you can't use words like that as they may offend absolutely no one in 2013.


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## Farneyman (Aug 13, 2013)

3-1 to Scotland.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 13, 2013)

Oh dear, hope its better than the under 21's.
Men against boys at the mo 3-0 to England and........................there is still 40 minutes to play.

We have a midget playing CF and two centre backs that have gone AWOL.


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## Birchy (Aug 13, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Oh dear, hope its better than the under 21's.
Men against boys at the mo 3-0 to England and........................there is still 40 minutes to play.

We have a midget playing CF and two centre backs that have gone AWOL.
		
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Make that 5-0 :rofl:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 13, 2013)

Jeez its 5-0 now.

Shades of 10 past Haffie.


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## Slime (Aug 13, 2013)

I believe it's now 5-0!

*Slime*.


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## Birchy (Aug 13, 2013)

6-0  :whoo: :rofl:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2013)

So basically Scotland's future stars are about as much cop as their current crop :rofl:


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## ger147 (Aug 13, 2013)

Lulling you in to a sense of security


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## williamalex1 (Aug 13, 2013)

ger147 said:



			Lulling you in to a sense of security 

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Indeed , there may be trouble ahead


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## thehunter (Aug 13, 2013)

Scotland to do us proud and win 3 2


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 13, 2013)

ger147 said:



			Lulling you in to a sense of security 

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Made me lol this. 
Tbh I can't remember England having such a bad squad. No disrespect to Rickie Lambert & Southampton but its not good when a 31yr old is getting his 1st cap.


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## In_The_Rough (Aug 13, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			Made me lol this. 
Tbh I can't remember England having such a bad squad. No disrespect to Rickie Lambert & Southampton but its not good when a 31yr old is getting his 1st cap.
		
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Agree in part. Just think Woy could have picked some younger options. Hooper for one, maybe Austin at QPR amongst others. Would not be shocked in Scotland won actually. It is their cup final after all


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## PieMan (Aug 14, 2013)

Won't be watching it - two distinctly poor teams playing a 100 miles an hour, struggling to keep the ball or string more than 3 passes together! Added to that lots of pointless comments of "typical British game" and "lots of passion and commitment" from whichever boring non-entity is commentating on the match. Dull, boring and technically light years behind the top European and South American nations.


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## user2009 (Aug 14, 2013)

PieMan said:



			Won't be watching it - two distinctly poor teams playing a 100 miles an hour, struggling to keep the ball or string more than 3 passes together! Added to that lots of pointless comments of "typical British game" and "lots of passion and commitment" from whichever boring non-entity is commentating on the match. Dull, boring and technically light years behind the top European and South American nations.
		
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Mr nail meet Mrs head


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## harrisj (Aug 14, 2013)

Going to watch the Alan Partridge movie instead. England friendlies are so dull.

Amazing how I can go from not being bothered about an England friendly to being the most excited person during the WC. I was even thinking about going to Brazil but the place looks dangerous, the grounds are too far away from each other, and they should never have been given it really.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 14, 2013)

I wonder if, as usual for this fixture, there will be more Scotland fans than English.
Just hope they behave themselves.

Interesting story that it was the SFA chairman who pulled the plug on the fixture and not the FA.


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## Beezerk (Aug 14, 2013)

user2009 said:



			Mr nail meet Mrs head 

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Ditto.
Lost interest with England a couple of years ago, used to be an England member as well and watch every game like it was a WC final.
No more.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm nervous and rather excited about the game actually - even although I have lived in England for 30yrs and have absolutely no vested interest in Scotland (according to some).  Come on Scotland.  Get intae them...


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## Dodger (Aug 14, 2013)

Zero interest in this kick about....none at all.

I rarely miss a game but I don't see me catching any of it this evening.


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## mikee247 (Aug 14, 2013)

Dodger said:



			Zero interest in this kick about....none at all.

I rarely miss a game but I don't see me catching any of it this evening.
		
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Actually Im going to attempt a game of golf this evening rather than watch this!! We (6 of us)  booked a tee time so we wouldn't have to watch all the game!!  We are all PL footy fans normally..... says it all really.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 14, 2013)

mikee247 said:



			Actually Im going to attempt a game of golf this evening rather than watch this!! We (6 of us)  booked a tee time so we wouldn't have to watch all the game!!  We are all PL footy fans normally..... says it all really. 

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You would rather watch a bunch of cheating overpaid foreigners than your own country, yup says it all.


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## jimbob.someroo (Aug 14, 2013)

Passionate England fan and will always endeavor to watch every match no matter how poor. I'm a Blackpool fan, more than used to it.

Think it's evident that there'll be a higher percentage of Scots supporting their team tonight and can't help but feel this is a contributing factor to where we fall short on the international scene. A lot of England 'fans' are only interested when we're playing at championships or against big teams and don't give a toss when we're playing in Eastern Europe for qualifiers. More than happy to get on the high horse though if we fail to win.

Makes you wonder if this sort of mentality filters through to the pitch a little ... there was certainly not much fight in the draws against Montenegro, Poland or the Ukraine.


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

Gong out for a curry in few mins,hope  to get back for the start or at least before first half finishes.Anything less than a comfortable win,will be a disappointment to me, and would then have great concerns about getting he result required in Ukraine  later in the year.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2013)

How did Adrian Chiles get this gig with itv?? What a complete muppet.


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## Birchy (Aug 14, 2013)

jimbob.someroo said:



			Passionate England fan and will always endeavor to watch every match no matter how poor. I'm a Blackpool fan, more than used to it.

Think it's evident that there'll be a higher percentage of Scots supporting their team tonight and can't help but feel this is a contributing factor to where we fall short on the international scene. A lot of England 'fans' are only interested when we're playing at championships or against big teams and don't give a toss when we're playing in Eastern Europe for qualifiers. More than happy to get on the high horse though if we fail to win.

*Makes you wonder if this sort of mentality filters through to the pitch a little ... there was certainly not much fight in the draws against Montenegro, Poland or the Ukraine*.
		
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No chance. Ive been all over the world watching England and the support of the people who actually go to the games is always superb and the team know it.

Its all the armchair/pub generals who only support England when it suits them. They are the first to stick the boot in as well even though they dont even go watching!!


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## evahakool (Aug 14, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			How did Adrian Chiles get this gig with itv?? What a complete muppet.
		
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You should count your blessings, I'm having to watch itv Scotland and what a biased presantion that is.


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## 19thagain (Aug 14, 2013)

14Th v 50th

A walkover for England......

As they say up here .. Aye, Right!!!


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## DAVEYBOY (Aug 14, 2013)

Come on England lets smash em!!


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## G1BB0 (Aug 14, 2013)

2-0 Scotland, might give Roy etc the kick up the backside and reality check they need...

I reckon England will win 3-1 though


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

Taxi for Hart.


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## Birchy (Aug 14, 2013)

Joe Hart


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2013)

This is almost as embarrassing as when we went 1-0 down to San Marino in 93


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## user2009 (Aug 14, 2013)

Darlington born James Morrison scores for Scotland, I feel a bit proud but mainly embarrassed :mmm:


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

TFFT!!!


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2013)

Is it raining in wembley? It's not in Watford, not far up the road.

Weather, it's more gripping than footy.


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## Birchy (Aug 14, 2013)

Miles onside there. Could see that from normal view!


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 14, 2013)

OP was that a FT or HT prediction?

Scotland passing the ball about nicely, great goal.
Walcot and Cleverly could do some damage second half though.


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## Golfmmad (Aug 14, 2013)

[QUOTE

Its all the armchair/pub generals who only support England when it suits them. They are the first to stick the boot in as well even though they dont even go watching!! [/QUOTE]

Hey, hang on just a minute, I'm an armchair fan and passionate about England. 

And I support EVERY England game, and yes, get very frustrated at times, but am a true supporter and don't give up on 'em when things go wrong.

What about Walcott eh? you just can't leave him out - class act!

To be fair though, Scotland have played well.

Come on England! :thup:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			OP was that a FT or HT prediction?

Scotland passing the ball about nicely, great goal.
Walcot and Cleverly could do some damage second half though.
		
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Cleverly is average at best. Why him n Welbeck keep getting picked for England is beyond me. Hope Zaha gets a run in 2nd half.


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## 19thagain (Aug 14, 2013)

Our bench of superstars must be desperate to go on and finish off this England team now that they have had their lack of skill exposed.

So blooming easy, this game is so blooming easy!!


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## Farneyman (Aug 14, 2013)

hart in the mouth time again lol


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## JustOne (Aug 14, 2013)

England not really playing, trying to walk the ball into the net.... Scotland playing their little hearts out, desperate for a win.

I hate friendlies. No different than playing stableford because you can't handle stroke play in case you start with a 10!!


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2013)

JustOne said:



			England not really playing, trying to walk the ball into the net.... Scotland playing their little hearts out, desperate for a win.

I hate friendlies. No different than playing stableford because you can't handle stroke play in case you start with a 10!!
		
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Oi! I might not have got a ten on the first on Sunday! That's why I nil returned.


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

Get in there!!!


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2013)

Is wellbeck's first touch worse than walcotts?


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2013)

murphthemog said:



			Is wellbeck's first touch worse than walcotts?
		
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I'd say they're both on par with Shaun Wright Phillips


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## Dodger (Aug 14, 2013)

English worldbeaters delighted to be scraping past a team ranked lower than Burkino Faso at home.


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## rosecott (Aug 14, 2013)

Dodger said:



			English worldbeaters delighted to be scraping past a team ranked lower than Burkino Faso at home.
		
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Ooh! What a surprise posting.


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## thecraw's ghost (Aug 14, 2013)

Steven Whittaker cost Scotland that cos he's dire.

Honestly is that the best we can offer at left back?


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

Lee Wallace,


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## 3PuttCharlie (Aug 14, 2013)

Great to see Lambert smiling so much!  And nice to see an English Footballer So proud to wear the shirt again!


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## Tiger (Aug 14, 2013)

That's the most entertaining friendly I've seen in a long time


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 14, 2013)

Now then 
Are Scotland rising to England's standard or are England falling to Scotland's standard?

Good game.


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## Birchy (Aug 14, 2013)

Good to watch, i enjoyed that. We did just enough to make a game of it 

Would love more regular games again. Thats much better prep for a vital qualifier than a game where nobody gives a damn.


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## 19thagain (Aug 14, 2013)

Enjoyed that and as Terry butcher says " England got out of jail tonight"  and I agree.

Set pieces and down to ten men were our downfall but it was a good nights viewing.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 14, 2013)

Enjoyable game but frightened about the so called talent in white shirts. Welbeck, Cleverley and others will get taken apart by a decent side and were made to look average by a well organised and disciplined Scotland team. I thought the Scots can take more from the game and they have the look of a team beginning to turn a corner


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

Yet again Rooney fails to deliver in an England shirt. Mourinho must be pleased he was knocked back and saved himself a few bob.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 14, 2013)

Got to admit I was impressed with Scotland's performance tonight.


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## Val (Aug 14, 2013)

wrighty1874 said:



			Lee Wallace,
		
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Who?


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## richart (Aug 14, 2013)

Strange for all those slating Welbecks performance he was given man of the match. Had a feeling Andy Townsend played a bit in the past, and might know a bit about the game.

Good to see a competitive friendly rather than the usual dross served up before the English season starts.


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

A small team player, a bit like Ricky Lambert!!!



Valentino said:



			Who?
		
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## Golfmmad (Aug 14, 2013)

wrighty1874 said:



			Yet again Rooney fails to deliver in an England shirt. Mourinho must be pleased he was knocked back and saved himself a few bob.
		
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Really??

He's just come back from injury and was only meant to be a run out for him - get some match fitness.

I thought he did ok and had a goal disallowed, which was clearly on side.


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2013)

richart said:



			Strange for all those slating Welbecks performance he was given man of the match. Had a feeling Andy Townsend played a bit in the past, and might know a bit about the game.

Good to see a competitive friendly rather than the usual dross served up before the English season starts.
		
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I didn't slate it, I just thought his first touch in the second half was poor. 

Or like walott's!


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

Team looked better when he went off imo, and not for the first time.


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## Val (Aug 14, 2013)

wrighty1874 said:



			A small team player, a bit like Ricky Lambert!!!
		
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Ricky Lambert plays in the top league for a lesser team, Lee Wallace plays for a team the equivalent of Gillingham but with a big support.


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## Val (Aug 14, 2013)

Can I ask are you England fans happy with the performance and result? Is it a case of a win is a win or did you need more?


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## user2009 (Aug 14, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Can I ask are you England fans happy with the performance and result? Is it a case of a win is a win or did you need more?
		
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I just can't seem to give a stuff about England anymore, mind numbingly boring stuff and we scraped a win against a Championship level side, wow big deal


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## Iaing (Aug 14, 2013)

Good game, although obviously a bit disappointed with the result.
I thought Scotland did ok apart from some terrible defending at England's second and third goals.
And Whittaker's not up to it.


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## wrighty1874 (Aug 14, 2013)

England have been disappointing me for years,so I'm not kidding myself we're going to get to Brazil next year. Always good to beat Scotland, as I'm sure you feel the same regarding beating England. Great rivalry is not a bad thing. Used to love going to Wembley and Hampden for the Home championships.Being half scottish,I like to see them get to the WC and Euro finals, but love us beating you and the banter that goes with it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 14, 2013)

Andy Townsend - that CL/Premier League winning player. Yes he played but so what. Doesn't make his judgement sound. Welbeck's first touch was poor and so was the distribution in the final third for most of the game


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## JustOne (Aug 14, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Can I ask are you England fans happy with the performance and result? Is it a case of a win is a win or did you need more?
		
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From what I saw Scotland didn't have the ball in the last half hour. Apparently we also had a disallowed goal and hit the post in the last 5min after numerous chances. A win is a win... these lesser sides aren't always easy as they close down the space and stop you from 'playing'. Not going to hold my breath that England stand a chance at winning anything though.


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## richart (Aug 14, 2013)

Valentino said:



			Can I ask are you England fans happy with the performance and result? Is it a case of a win is a win or did you need more?
		
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Can never get too excited over a pre season friendly, but a win is always better than a loss. Still can not see the point of a game three days before the English Premier season starts.


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## Snelly (Aug 14, 2013)

I caught a bit of this game and found it mildly entertaining.  Low levels of technical ability infused with passion made for a bearable fixture.

I have just been in Catalunya for a while and got to see Barcelona va Santos.  It was mesmerising and wonderful to watch.  Barcelona won by miles but it was still a fantastic spectacle.  

The point I'm making though is that watching Barca compared to a team of England's standard is like comparing chalk with cheese.  One has a level of brilliance that can only be admired and the other is not only a distinctly average team playing pretty average football, but also a relatively sad reflection of British culture and society.


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## richart (Aug 14, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Andy Townsend - that CL/Premier League winning player. Yes he played but so what. Doesn't make his judgement sound. Welbeck's first touch was poor and so was the distribution in the final third for most of the game
		
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 I think there must be a few that back his judgement, otherwise they wouldn't employ him for his 'expert opinion'. 

 Game of opinions, and considering it was a pre season friendly Welbeck did better than most.


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## smange (Aug 14, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Andy Townsend - that CL/Premier League winning player. *Yes he played but so what. Doesn't make his judgement sound.* Welbeck's first touch was poor and so was the distribution in the final third for most of the game
		
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Yet you spend so much time and money on lessons from a professional golfer, who isn't good enough to make it at the top level of his game and you take every word he says as gospel.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 14, 2013)

A lot of condescending rubbish being spouted on here.  Scotland played pretty darned decent and if English 'supporters' can only make comments about a 'poor' England then well I don't give a monkeys.  Just continue being dismissive and condescending.


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## Five&One (Aug 15, 2013)

As a football spectacle it was okay for an hour. Once England got their noses in front there was only one winner though and the major difference in the two sides was physical build and an ability to keep the ball that England have and Scotland don't. There isn't a gulf between the teams as England have been on the serious downslope since Shearer packed in and Gazza started using Cheryl as a punchbag. Scotland have a decent little bunch at the moment who won't set the heather alight as it stands, but discover a striker in the next couple of years and we might pick up a bit.

England probably deserved to win. Don't really have much complaint about any of their goals. 3 very decent balls that someone got on the end of really.

Scotland ? Well we didnt get embarrassed as we might have done so that's something I suppose, but we're a long way off being able to qualify for a major tournament again.


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## chrisd (Aug 15, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			A lot of condescending rubbish being spouted on here.  Scotland played pretty darned decent and if English 'supporters' can only make comments about a 'poor' England then well I don't give a monkeys.  Just continue being dismissive and condescending.
		
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Lets be fair, it was a competitive match, Scotland started pretty well, England overall were the better side, neither teams would get near to beating a decent team like Germany. It was, for me, a daft fixture being only days before the season starts and would be better and more meaningful played in, say November, when all the players are fitter and sharper.

It was a win though and England will be happy with that, whether the Scottish team are feeling that that game alone elevates them in the football rankings, well I think that would be as misguided as us thinking we could win the Word Cup, after all, for Scotland, beating us seems to be the pinnacle of their ambition rather than something they need to be able to do to be competitive in world football.

Yes, Scotland played ok, we were better than them, but its like watching my team (Crystal Palace) in the Premiership - yes, we might beat Man U at home this season but in the final analysis we arnt going to qualify for Europe!


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I caught a bit of this game and found it mildly entertaining.  Low levels of technical ability infused with passion made for a bearable fixture.

I have just been in Catalunya for a while and got to see Barcelona va Santos.  It was mesmerising and wonderful to watch.  Barcelona won by miles but it was still a fantastic spectacle.  

The point I'm making though is that watching Barca compared to a team of England's standard is like comparing chalk with cheese.  One has a level of brilliance that can only be admired and the other is not only a distinctly average team playing pretty average football, but also a relatively sad reflection of British culture and society.
		
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Barca v Bayern over 2legs was a bit chalk & cheese last season


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2013)

The last two Scottish games have been excellent.
Wee Gordon has us working as a unit, there was some superb passing and chasing in the first hour, classic Scottish play
Very happy with that.

Scotland played well and lost and we are still happy. That is one of the big differences between Scottish and English sports fans.
If England had lost that game they would be calling for Hodgson's head on a plate even though they played pretty well.


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## pokerjoke (Aug 15, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Enjoyable game but frightened about the so called talent in white shirts. Welbeck, Cleverley and others will get taken apart by a decent side and were made to look average by a well organised and disciplined Scotland team. I thought the Scots can take more from the game and they have the look of a team beginning to turn a corner
		
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Wellbeck and Cleverly are the future,they have to be bedded in.
30 or 40 caps down the line they will be a lot lot better and more experienced.
One commentator thought the ball played first time by Cleverly for walcotts goal
 said that it could have been Gerrard or Lampard playing it.
We have to get rid of the old guard eventually.
Unfortunately with all the foreign imports into the PL England are always going to be struggling
in major champs,until this changes nothings going to change.


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

I thought we played well in patches but not a complete performance yet but that can hardly be expected at this stage of season. Scotlands first goal was shocking from Hart and Rooneys goal was miles onside in the first half which made the game closer. We had plenty chances in the last ten to make it more convincing but didn't take them.

A decent enough show from England with much more in the tank I feel. Anybody whinging about it just needs to give their head a wobble.


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## Beezerk (Aug 15, 2013)

richart said:



			Strange for all those slating Welbecks performance he was given man of the match.
		
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Doesn't say much for the rest of the team does it.
Welbeck, just like Walcott, Cleverley, Baines, Carrick etc all have shocking first touches, on the international stage it's all about the first touch and they will get found out. They also lack composure on the ball and have no vision at all, unfortunately "Hollywood Pass" Gerrard has too much 
The current crop are probably the poorest bunch I've seen for years, as I said to the missus last night, I can't remember the last decent England performance, maybe vs Holland in Euro 96, 5-1 vs Germany was a lucky one off.


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Rooneys goal was miles onside in the first half which made the game closer.
		
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I think you lot need to get realistic. Yes he was onside but when the whistle went the Scottish players stopped and he tapped it in unopposed. Ok he may well have scored anyway but nobody can say....

Seemed like a decent game, dare I say it, Scotland showing first signs of recovery? If only we could find a couple of central defenders. Good show from England as well to come from behind twice before grabbing the win. Looked to be a lot more competitive and entertaining than the usual international friendlies.


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think you lot need to get realistic. Yes he was onside but when the whistle went the Scottish players stopped and he tapped it in unopposed. Ok he may well have scored anyway but nobody can say....

Seemed like a decent game, dare I say it, Scotland showing first signs of recovery? If only we could find a couple of central defenders. Good show from England as well to come from behind twice before grabbing the win. Looked to be a lot more competitive and entertaining than the usual international friendlies.
		
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The Scotland players stopped because he was in behind them and they didn't have any chance of getting to him. The keeper played on and tried to stop him but he took round him. Rooney scores that goal whether the lino puts his flag up or not.

If you think there's any way that wouldn't of been a goal its you who needs to be realistic.


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## SS2 (Aug 15, 2013)

Decent game with a bit of passion and niggle to keep things interesting. Strachan seems to have instilled a wee bit of fight into his team. No doubt England are a better side and deserved to win. 

Stadium looked fantastic and 80,000 for a friendly is a good turnout.

Roll on the rematch at Hampden next year ?


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			The Scotland players stopped because he was in behind them and they didn't have any chance of getting to him. The keeper played on and tried to stop him but he took round him. Rooney scores that goal whether the lino puts his flag up or not.

If you think there's any way that wouldn't of been a goal its you who needs to be realistic.
		
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They all stopped except the keeper, even Rooney looked round at the ref before his half hearted shot.

There are some good young English players about, I thought Wickham [?] the big CF for the under 21 side looked a great prospect.
Well earned and nice moment for Lambert last night....one to tell his grandchildren.


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			They all stopped except the keeper, even Rooney looked round at the ref before his half hearted shot.

There are some good young English players about, I thought Wickham [?] the big CF for the under 21 side looked a great prospect.
Well earned and nice moment for Lambert last night....one to tell his grandchildren.
		
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Like I said the defenders stopped when they looked around and saw Rooney in the clear as there was nothing they could do. The flag only went up when Rooney controlled the ball as well and at that stage he was in front of the keeper even the commentators mentioned the flag only went up when he had touched it.

Add to that the whistle didn't go until the ball was rolling into the net and it would of been a certain goal no doubt.

Biggest straw clutch ive ever heard in history :rofl:


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## ger147 (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Like I said the defenders stopped when they looked around and saw Rooney in the clear as there was nothing they could do. The flag only went up when Rooney controlled the ball as well and at that stage he was in front of the keeper even the commentators mentioned the flag only went up when he had touched it.

Add to that the whistle didn't go until the ball was rolling into the net and it would of been a certain goal no doubt.

Biggest straw clutch ive ever heard in history :rofl:
		
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The defenders held their line to play him offside but Rooney beat the offside trap.  You can never be certain what would have happened afterwards had the flag not gone up and the whistle not gone as both things happened before Rooney casually stroked the ball in to the net which the keeper did not attempt to stop.


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			From what I saw Scotland didn't have the ball in the last half hour. Apparently we also had a disallowed goal and hit the post in the last 5min after numerous chances. A win is a win... these lesser sides aren't always easy as they close down the space and stop you from 'playing'. Not going to hold my breath that England stand a chance at winning anything though.
		
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England certainly had a superior subs bench, which probably told in the end.Up until half time I thoguht it was a pretty even and highly enjoyable game of football.As for the 'stop you playing' comment, since when did England, against any nation 'play'?About as one dimensional as you can possibly be, the same as us, but with more choice of one dimensional players.

This type of comment is a perfect example of why, on a sporting level, the world is ABE.Condescending  totally misplaced given the quality of your team.



mikee247 said:



			Actually Im going to attempt a game of golf this evening rather than watch this!! We (6 of us)  booked a tee time so we wouldn't have to watch all the game!!  *We are all PL footy fans normally*..... says it all really. 

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omg.
I'll place a bet you discovered football on Sky TV and by reading Fever Pitch, rarely actually go a game but spout nonsense in the pub whilst watching your team (prob City, but used to be Chelsea)

This type of attitude is why I hate EPL/SKY and why in England, The Championship and League 1 are the leagues to watch for proper English football, not this pseudo crap you all seem to have totally bought into.


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

ger147 said:



			The defenders held their line to play him offside but Rooney beat the offside trap.  You can never be certain what would have happened afterwards had the flag not gone up and the whistle not gone as both things happened before Rooney casually stroked the ball in to the net which the keeper did not attempt to stop.
		
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The keeper did clearly try to stop him, watch it again. Rooney took it past him looked up at the flag and then stroked it into an empty goal.

Is it classed as a disallowed maybe goal then :rofl:


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

Adi2Dassler said:



			England certainly had a superior subs bench, which probably told in the end.Up until half time I thoguht it was a pretty even and highly enjoyable game of football.As for the 'stop you playing' comment, since when did England, against any nation 'play'?About as one dimensional as you can possibly be, the same as us, but with more choice of one dimensional players.

This type of comment is a perfect example of why, on a sporting level, the world is ABE.Condescending bullshit totally misplaced given the quality of your team.



omg.
I'll place a bet you discovered football on Sky TV and by reading Fever Pitch, rarely actually go a game but spout nonsense in the pub whilst watching your team (prob City, but used to be Chelsea)

This type of attitude is why I hate EPL/SKY and why in England, The Championship and League 1 are the leagues to watch for proper English football, not this pseudo crap you all seem to have totally bought into.
		
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I think you need to calm down


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## ger147 (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			The keeper did clearly try to stop him, watch it again. Rooney took it past him looked up at the flag and then stroked it into an empty goal.

Is it classed as a disallowed maybe goal then :rofl:
		
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It's classed as an offside decision, albeit an incorrect one.  Rooney could have been booked for playing on after the whistle sounded.


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## Beezerk (Aug 15, 2013)

I can't believe you lot are arguing over the finer points of a disallowed goal :rofl:


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## G1BB0 (Aug 15, 2013)

England are dire imho and have been for years. It was only worth watching as a game versus scotland. Any other team and I probs wouldnt have bothered. Reason being since the days of Beardsley, Gazza et al we have lacked flair. Its got too tactical. It summed it up every time we scored Mr Hodgon barely reacted. Strachan on the other hand jumped about, kicked a chair and shown real passion. Something we lack (aswell as world class ability).


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

ger147 said:



			It's classed as an offside decision, albeit an incorrect one.  Rooney could have been booked for playing on after the whistle sounded.
		
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Rooney had kicked the ball before the ref had blown the whistle. Does walking back towards halfway count as playing on?? :rofl:


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

Beezerk said:



			I can't believe you lot are arguing over the finer points of a disallowed goal :rofl:
		
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I cant honestly believe anybody would think it might not of been a goal had the linesman not put his flag up


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 15, 2013)

Beezerk said:



			I can't believe you lot are arguing over the finer points of a disallowed goal :rofl:
		
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Not really arguing, just "mentioning" 

I didn't see the game live and actually read the posts on this thread before I saw the highlights. When I saw Rooney's "goal" I couldn't believe the fuss being made about it. My reaction was "Is that it? Is that the supposed disallowed goal?" Whistle went, play stopped, Rooney tapped it in. Pretty sad to try and claim extra kudos for that in a game they won anyway!


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## ger147 (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I cant honestly believe anybody would think it might not of been a goal had the linesman not put his flag up 

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Sadly we'll never know


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## ger147 (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Rooney had kicked the ball before the ref had blown the whistle. Does walking back towards halfway count as playing on?? :rofl:
		
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The whistle went before Rooney tapped it in but seen as it was a friendly I thought it was decent of the ref not to book Rooney.


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## Beezerk (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I cant honestly believe anybody would think it might not of been a goal had the linesman not put his flag up 

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For what it's worth I thought both the keeper and defenders stopped just before Rooney put the ball in the net :thup:


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## In_The_Rough (Aug 15, 2013)

9-2 over the 2 games I will take that. As I said earlier it was Scotland's cup final. We had plenty more in the tank if needed


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2013)

Beezerk said:



			For what it's worth I thought both the keeper and defenders stopped just before Rooney put the ball in the net :thup:
		
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It looked a half hearted shot and attempt to save, mind you the Head Gardener always says that I would make a terrible police witness!

Once this goal line technology comes in we may see 3 hour games!!


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## Robobum (Aug 15, 2013)

A perfect workout for both sides I'd say. None of the England team have had a competitive game yet and neither have many of the scots. Their club managers will be delighted asking as they all go back without knocks. You just don't get friendlies played at that intensity any other place.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2013)

..........and no fan trouble, well that I know of.


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## StuartD (Aug 15, 2013)

Probably the best report i have read on last nights game

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...all-inexplicably-angry-land-2-2-2013081578687


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## Mr A (Aug 15, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			As I said earlier it was Scotland's cup final. We had plenty more in the tank if needed
		
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And the English wonder why they are perceived as arrogant. Scotland had just beat a better team than England in Croatia. It was the first game in 14 years between the two sides, and the atmosphere is always great when we play each other. 

England only looked decent in the last 20 minutes, and to suggest they had plenty left is laughable, we only have 2 gears and that's why we get humiliated every time we play a top side.


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## mikee247 (Aug 15, 2013)

StuartD said:



			Probably the best report i have read on last nights game

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...all-inexplicably-angry-land-2-2-2013081578687

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Sums it up perfectly!! :thup:


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## Beezerk (Aug 15, 2013)

Mr A said:



			And the English wonder why they are perceived as arrogant. Scotland had just beat a better team than England in Croatia. It was the first game in 14 years between the two sides, and the atmosphere is always great when we play each other. 

England only looked decent in the last 20 minutes, and to suggest they had plenty left is laughable, we only have 2 gears and that's why we get humiliated every time we play a top side.
		
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Agree with all of this, we are clueless against decent teams who have good shape and know how to defend. We are a set piece team at best, there's no guile or technical ability in our play.
Look at the movement of the England midfielders/strikers, it's none existent, no clever runs off the ball or any idea how to create space, makes watching us absolutely predictable and boring IMO. 
We are light years behind other teams, I blame the short sightedness of the FA, picking 6.5 ft strikers who bang in the goals at youth level (forcing them to play the long ball game) instead of nurturing more technically proficient players who probably won't give you instant success.
Look at the Under 21 team, nothing in there makes me feel like we have a good future, they're all overpaid, overhyped wannabies more interested in how their hair looks rather putting on a good performance, maybe Zaha is a decent card but no one else.

Rant over 

*edit*
Sorry, Wilshire looked good last night but was trying to do too much on his own.


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## In_The_Rough (Aug 15, 2013)

Mr A said:



			And the English wonder why they are perceived as arrogant. Scotland had just beat a better team than England in Croatia. It was the first game in 14 years between the two sides, and the atmosphere is always great when we play each other. 

England only looked decent in the last 20 minutes, and to suggest they had plenty left is laughable, we only have 2 gears and that's why we get humiliated every time we play a top side.
		
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Should have beat us then if Croatia are better. Where did I mention atmosphere no idea why that was brought up? We did have plenty left with Rooney,Wilshere, Gerrard etc not on the field for a big chunk of the game which had it been an qualifier they would have been kept on. It is Scotland's cup final if there is one team they would love to beat then it is us especially at Wembley


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

Mr A said:



			And the English wonder why they are perceived as arrogant. *Scotland had just beat a better team than England in Croatia*. It was the first game in 14 years between the two sides, and the atmosphere is always great when we play each other. 

England only looked decent in the last 20 minutes, and to suggest they had plenty left is laughable, we only have 2 gears and that's why we get humiliated every time we play a top side.
		
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Aye alreet :rofl:

Remind me what score it was last time we played Croatia? I will remind you for those with short term memory loss, it was 5-1 to England.

England get humiliated every time they play a top team like when? Theres only one time in the last few years I can think of and that was against Germany at the world cup.

England have only lost 3 of the last 30 odd matches and along the way beaten chumps like Spain and Brazil.


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## In_The_Rough (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Aye alreet :rofl:

Remind me what score it was last time we played Croatia? I will remind you for those with short term memory loss, it was 5-1 to England.

England get humiliated every time they play a top team like when? Theres only one time in the last few years I can think of and that was against Germany at the world cup.

England have only lost 3 of the last 30 odd matches and along the way beaten chumps like Spain and Brazil.
		
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:thup: Just what I said only worded different. Starting to sound like some sour grapes kicking in. Can you imagine what they would have been like if they had beaten us.


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## JustOne (Aug 15, 2013)

Beezerk said:



			I can't believe you lot are arguing over the finer points of a disallowed goal :rofl:
		
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Beezerk said:



			For what it's worth I thought both the keeper and defenders stopped just before Rooney put the ball in the net :thup:
		
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LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! :rofl:

Quality!!


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## Beezerk (Aug 15, 2013)

JustOne said:



			LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! :rofl:

Quality!!
		
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Like that is it? Picking and choosing my comments


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## Adi2Dassler (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Aye alreet :rofl:

Remind me what score it was last time we played Croatia? I will remind you for those with short term memory loss, it was 5-1 to England.

England get humiliated every time they play a top team like when? Theres only one time in the last few years I can think of and that was against Germany at the world cup.

England have only lost 3 of the last 30 odd matches and along the way beaten chumps like Spain and Brazil.
		
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England are so like Scotland it's quite amusing.Play hoofball with no panache, occasionally beat a team from the top table and rely on one,maybe two players.


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## Iaing (Aug 15, 2013)

Does the fact that England should have finished the game with 10 men negate Rooneys "goal"?


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## williamalex1 (Aug 15, 2013)

Iaing said:



			Does the fact that England should have finished the game with 10 men negate Rooneys "goal"?
		
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 and scored while we only had 10 men on the field.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			England have only lost 3 of the last 30 odd matches and along the way beaten chumps like Spain and Brazil.
		
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Beaten Spain???  Tell me you are not counting a training match as a sensible indication of how good England are in relation to Spain in a competitive tournament situation?


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## SaintHacker (Aug 15, 2013)

Iaing said:



			England should have finished the game with 10 men
		
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Why?


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## Birchy (Aug 15, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			Beaten Spain???  Tell me you are not counting a training match as a sensible indication of how good England are in relation to Spain in a competitive tournament situation?
		
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I said we beat Spain and Brazil as an example of the quality of teams England can compete against and beat. Thats a FACT, i saw it happen with my own eyes.

Just remind me what happened last time England played Spain in a major tournament? Spain have only ever beat us once in a major tournament and that was a very, very long time ago.

I deal in Facts. The fact is England are a good team at international level and we dont lose many games at all, fair dos we are crap at penalties and that has cost us major tournaments many times. That doesnt make you a crap team by any stretch though imo.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I said we beat Spain and Brazil as an example of the quality of teams England can compete against and beat. Thats a FACT, i saw it happen with my own eyes.

Just remind me what happened last time England played Spain in a major tournament? Spain have only ever beat us once in a major tournament and that was a very, very long time ago.

I deal in Facts. The fact is England are a good team at international level and we dont lose many games at all, fair dos we are crap at penalties and that has cost us major tournaments many times. That doesnt make you a crap team by any stretch though imo.
		
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I also deal in facts & it's a fact that not a single England player would get in the Spain team


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2013)

^^^^^ apart from Ashley Cole


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2013)

SaintHacker said:



			Why?
		
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Your right back [don't know his name, already yellow carded for a poor challenge] should have been sent off for an off the ball incident that the ref missed, The ref then booked another England player for a trivial foul. The ref must have heard the Scots fans angry roar and re-acted by booking the obvious foul in front of him.

Good ref though, let the game flow well.


What do the English fans make of Forrest, star in the making I think.


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## chrisd (Aug 15, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			I also deal in facts & it's a fact that not a single England player would get in the Spain team
		
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I was at the Spain match and, if I remember rightly, their last sub hit more passes than any of our players! It was a lesson, how we won I shall never ever know


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## SocketRocket (Aug 15, 2013)

SaintHacker said:



			Why?
		
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Because he said so :mmm:


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 15, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I was at the Spain match and, if I remember rightly, their last sub hit more passes than any of our players! It was a lesson, how we won I shall never ever know
		
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Fabregas & Matta aren't automatic starters for Spain. Pretty sure they'd both be 1st names on England team sheet.


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## SocketRocket (Aug 15, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I was at the Spain match and, if I remember rightly, their last sub hit more passes than any of our players! It was a lesson, how we won I shall never ever know
		
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Maybe we scored more goals?


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## SocketRocket (Aug 15, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			I also deal in facts & it's a fact that not a single England player would get in the Spain team
		
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Maybe because they're not Spanish :smirk:


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## ger147 (Aug 15, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Maybe because they're not Spanish :smirk:
		
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Being English doesn't stop you playing for Scotland


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## evahakool (Aug 15, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Your right back [don't know his name, already yellow carded for a poor challenge] should have been sent off for an off the ball incident that the ref missed, The ref then booked another England player for a trivial foul. The ref must have heard the Scots fans angry roar and re-acted by booking the obvious foul in front of him.

Good ref though, let the game flow well.


What do the English fans make of Forrest, star in the making I think.
		
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Don't watch a lot of Scottish football but did catch his last game and was very impressed,have to agree he looks a class player.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 15, 2013)

Perhaps we shall be luckier at the golf tomorrow.

Decider between Scotland and England at the home internationals.


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## Beezerk (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I said we beat Spain and Brazil as an example of the quality of teams England can compete against and beat. Thats a FACT, i saw it happen with my own eyes.

Just remind me what happened last time England played Spain in a major tournament? Spain have only ever beat us once in a major tournament and that was a very, very long time ago.

I deal in Facts. The fact is England are a good team at international level and we dont lose many games at all, fair dos we are crap at penalties and that has cost us major tournaments many times. That doesnt make you a crap team by any stretch though imo.
		
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I've just almost died laughing.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Just remind me what happened last time England played Spain in a major tournament? Spain have only ever beat us once in a major tournament and that was a very, very long time ago.
		
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Using the fact that we beat Spain in a major tournament what, 20 odd years ago, to justify that we are anywhere near as good as the current team that are world and European champions is a bit daft.  When we have not reached a semi final in 20 odd years.  

I would probably not say we are 'crap', but based on the amount of money in the Premiership and our history and heritage, we are vastly underachieving.  I read a very interesting article about the success of UK sport this summer, detailing how the successful sports had mostly embraced science, hired the best coaches and changed the way they looked at and coached the sports.  Where as English/British football is years behind. And all the hype about British clubs having world class training set ups is rubbish.  Yes some clubs may have superb facilities and have invested millions in the building and equipment, but what actually goes on in them is so out of date.

I think using the fact we are crap at penalties as a reason for us not doing well in international tournaments is also rather glossing over the fact that we have no where near the technical ability of a lot of major international teams.  Other international teams have caught up on fitness and the type of game played in the Premiership, whilst exciting for those who were brought up on the '_quick, hoof the ball up to the centre forward as quickly as possible and don't worry about keeping possession of the ball stuff'_  style of football, is not the type of game that will win major international football tournaments any more.  

I think it was Guardiola who said that Whiltshire would probably be a decent player in the Barcelona B team.  Where as we seem to think he is the second coming as he has a vague hint of technical ability.  And I don't see many team clamouring for his signature in the transfer market. Which to me sums it up.

If it wasn't for those damn penalties we'd be world champs....yeah right.


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## Dodger (Aug 16, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Your right back [don't know his name, already yellow carded for a poor challenge] should have been sent off for an off the ball incident that the ref missed, The ref then booked another England player for a trivial foul. The ref must have heard the Scots fans angry roar and re-acted by booking the obvious foul in front of him.

Good ref though, let the game flow well.


What do the English fans make of Forrest, star in the making I think.
		
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Forrest?

You are having a laugh Doon. The lad is a waste of a Green & White jersey and was a waste of a dark blue one on Wednesday......total passenger.


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

Hacker Khan said:



			Using the fact that we beat Spain in a major tournament what, 20 odd years ago, to justify that we are anywhere near as good as the current team that are world and European champions is a bit daft.  When we have not reached a semi final in 20 odd years.  

I would probably not say we are 'crap', but based on the amount of money in the Premiership and our history and heritage, we are vastly underachieving.  I read a very interesting article about the success of UK sport this summer, detailing how the successful sports had mostly embraced science, hired the best coaches and changed the way they looked at and coached the sports.  Where as English/British football is years behind. And all the hype about British clubs having world class training set ups is rubbish.  Yes some clubs may have superb facilities and have invested millions in the building and equipment, but what actually goes on in them is so out of date.

I think using the fact we are crap at penalties as a reason for us not doing well in international tournaments is also rather glossing over the fact that we have no where near the technical ability of a lot of major international teams.  Other international teams have caught up on fitness and the type of game played in the Premiership, whilst exciting for those who were brought up on the '_quick, hoof the ball up to the centre forward as quickly as possible and don't worry about keeping possession of the ball stuff'_  style of football, is not the type of game that will win major international football tournaments any more.  

I think it was Guardiola who said that Whiltshire would probably be a decent player in the Barcelona B team.  Where as we seem to think he is the second coming as he has a vague hint of technical ability.  And I don't see many team clamouring for his signature in the transfer market. Which to me sums it up.

If it wasn't for those damn penalties we'd be world champs....yeah right.
		
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There you go again off on a tangent twisting the argument to suit what your saying.

People called England crap and I say no they aren't and gave examples of top quality teams that we have beaten. Nowhere did I say we were a better team than Spain or Brazil I just showed an example that tells me we can compete and get results against the best teams in the world.

I never said we were best in the world or gonna win the world cup or any major tournament and I cant see us winning one soon but that doesn't make us crap.

We were in a major semi final 17 years ago so yet again you exaggerate the facts so it suits what your saying. Nothing to be proud of but you are wrong again.

Spain have only come good in the recent era, they never used to win jack. They currently have a style of play which is innovative and successful but it wont last forever, somebody will come up with something new they always do.

Theres a lot of clubs do have world class training faciltites too so that's another thing your wrong on, ive seen them In the flesh. The thing holding us back is the methods used to train players at early ages imo but that another matter.

Apart from that I agree with what your saying!


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## StuartD (Aug 16, 2013)

Dodger said:



			Forrest?

You are having a laugh Doon. The lad is a waste of a Green & White jersey and was a waste of a dark blue one on Wednesday......total passenger.
		
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It's not Doon. Peter Lawell has stolen his account to talk Forest up for a big transfer fee :smirk:


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 16, 2013)

Do you think Forest be interested in Forest.

Lennon [or whoever is in charge of transfers] seems to be doing a decent job in the market.
Some of the young players look ready to step up and the have about Â£18m in the bank from outgoers.
They don't seem to have they spent much in incomers?


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## ger147 (Aug 16, 2013)

Seen as the thread is still going, this article seems appropriate...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23714647


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

ger147 said:



			Seen as the thread is still going, this article seems appropriate...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23714647

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Can tell it was somebody Scottish who picked that :rofl:


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## ger147 (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Can tell it was somebody Scottish who picked that :rofl:
		
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I had a wee chuckle too if I'm honest.  McGregor is a good shout in goal but apart from that...


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## In_The_Rough (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Can tell it was somebody Scottish who picked that :rofl:
		
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Leighton Baines as captain what a joker


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 16, 2013)

I agree England are not crap. However, they're not in the "top tier" of countries that can realistically challenge to win a major tournament but are certainly in the next group. They should always qualify and are capable of a decent run and occasionally beating one of the top teams.

It looks like the England team is suffering much as the Scottish one did from a heavy reliance on foreign players in the league. Not being an England fan it's hard to know but it appears to me that the team is not as competitive on the world stage as it was prior to the premiership.....


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

FairwayDodger said:



			I agree England are not crap. However, they're not in the "top tier" of countries that can realistically challenge to win a major tournament but are certainly in the next group. They should always qualify and are capable of a decent run and occasionally beating one of the top teams.

It looks like the England team is suffering much as the Scottish one did from a heavy reliance on foreign players in the league. Not being an England fan it's hard to know but it appears to me that the team is not as competitive on the world stage as it was prior to the premiership.....
		
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We are one of them teams imo that with a food run and a bit of luck we are capable but theres some very good teams in front of us that make that very difficult.

I think we have suffered by just standing still since the premiership has come in. Weve not really moved forward in our style of play or tactically as a team. Instead of learning from all these foreign imports we have just kept the same old methods thinking we know best (which we don't).

I think youngsters need to be trained differently and be more complete players rather than just big and fast like we have had/have. The technical aspect of our coaching at grass roots level needs to be looked at big style.


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## Dodger (Aug 16, 2013)

ger147 said:



			Seen as the thread is still going, this article seems appropriate...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23714647

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Broony's stock must be up around the Â£35m mark now surely.

A fantastic midfielder.


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## Snelly (Aug 16, 2013)

England not crap?  Pretty crap then?  Mildly crap?  Just a bit crappier than average?  Relatively, they are rubbish.  In my opinion of course.


They will never win another major tournament in my lifetime.  The players and coaches are not good enough.   Without total root and branch reform as Germany have carried out over the last 10 years, nothing will change and England will be soundly beaten by better teams as soon as (or if) they get past the group stages.     This reform will never happen whilst the FA hold the reins.  

Anyone who disagrees is delusional or simply does not understand where England stand in world football.


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

Snelly said:



			England not crap?  Pretty crap then?  Mildly crap?  Just a bit crappier than average?  Relatively, they are rubbish.  In my opinion of course.


They will never win another major tournament in my lifetime.  The players and coaches are not good enough.   Without total root and branch reform as Germany have carried out over the last 10 years, nothing will change and England will be soundly beaten by better teams as soon as (or if) they get past the group stages.     This reform will never happen whilst the FA hold the reins.  

Anyone who disagrees is delusional or simply does not understand where England stand in world football.
		
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Yeah ok :rofl:


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## StuartD (Aug 16, 2013)

Dodger said:



			Broony's stock must be up around the Â£35m mark now surely.

A fantastic midfielder.
		
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 Peter Lawwell got a hold of your login as well now


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## Dodger (Aug 16, 2013)

StuartD said:



			Peter Lawwell got a hold of your login as well now 

Click to expand...


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## SaintHacker (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			The technical aspect of our coaching at grass roots level needs to be looked at big style.
		
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It already has been, but obviously will take a few years to show as the oldest players who are recceving the new coaching ideas are 11/12


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

SaintHacker said:



			It already has been, but obviously will take a few years to show as the oldest players who are recceving the new coaching ideas are 11/12
		
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Yeah Ive heard similar but not seen it yet as haven't had chance, suppose we have to be patient now and see how the young guys develop.

The FA centre at Burton will surely help with this too hopefully. :thup:


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## Iaing (Aug 16, 2013)

SaintHacker said:



			Why?
		
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Because Walker should have been sent off for the off the ball incident. But he wasn't, so that's that.
Same as Rooney's "goal" wasn't, so that's that.


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## Val (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Can tell it was somebody Scottish who picked that :rofl:
		
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I stopped reading when I saw Alan Hutton and Grant Hanley mentioned.


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## gregbwfc (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Yeah Ive heard similar but not seen it yet as haven't had chance, suppose we have to be patient now and see how the young guys develop.

*The FA centre at Burton will surely help with this too hopefully*. :thup:
		
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Wouldn't count on that mate,sadly.
Premier league is all,now.
Instant success required, they don't give a stuff about the national team.
It isn't the best league in the world,just the richest.

We're so limited it's untrue.
Snelly's right I'm afraid.
Of course we're not THAT bad but it's all relative.
We like to think we can compete at a tournament with the likes of Italy, Germany etc. but we can't, we really just can't.
Shame really.


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

gregbwfc said:



			Wouldn't count on that mate,sadly.
Premier league is all,now.
Instant success required, they don't give a stuff about the national team.
It isn't the best league in the world,just the richest.

We're so limited it's untrue.
Snelly's right I'm afraid.
Of course we're not THAT bad but it's all relative.
We like to think we can compete at a tournament with the likes of Italy, Germany etc. but we can't, we really just can't.
Shame really.
		
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That's why changes have been put in place to try and improve things. The amount of home grown players in your team will have to increase, the financial fair play, the improved coaching at grass roots level & the superb FA facility at Burton which is world class.

We are trying to make the step up but people have got to give it a chance rather than being so miserable and cynical. I know its hard because we balls up in every tournament but just giving up on the team is pathetic and anybody who does wants deporting


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## Snelly (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			That's why changes have been put in place to try and improve things. The amount of home grown players in your team will have to increase, the financial fair play, the improved coaching at grass roots level & the superb FA facility at Burton which is world class.

We are trying to make the step up but people have got to give it a chance rather than being so miserable and cynical. I know its hard because we balls up in every tournament but just giving up on the team is pathetic and anybody who does wants deporting 

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You have a very simple outlook on this subject. And you are totally wrong. Wrong, and delusional.  A typical English football fan in fact. 

Have a nice weekend.


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

Snelly said:



			You have a very simple outlook on this subject. And you are totally wrong. Wrong, and delusional.  A typical English football fan in fact. 

Have a nice weekend.
		
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Yeah ok. Your the one spouting crap and not backing it up with anything! :rofl:

Hardly deluded when what ive said is backed up with facts.

England arent winning trophies so I cant be bothered with them and they are crap. That's the typical English football fan and you seem to be one of them.


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## gregbwfc (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm older than you mate .
We've gone backwards and we're a looonnnng way behind the top sides.
Would like nothing more than for us to win a tournament,I mean for heaven's sake, GREECE have 
Not in my lifetime methinks, maybe in yours :thup:


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

gregbwfc said:



			I'm older than you mate .
We've gone backwards and we're a looonnnng way behind the top sides.
Would like nothing more than for us to win a tournament,I mean for heaven's sake, GREECE have 
Not in my lifetime methinks, maybe in yours :thup:
		
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I would love us to win a tournament too unlikely though it is at the moment. Ive never said we are going to or give it the big un saying we are the best in the world etc. Ive never said we are better than Spain, Brazil etc etc either but we can beat them and we have done.

People are just to quick to say we are crap and have no chance. All these so called English people give the team crap all year round yet when the major tournaments come round they are there with their face paint, replica top and beer in hand singing Vindaloo.

We don't hammer teams like Scotland in a friendly and we are rubbish then we beat Spain in a friendly then its the old "Its only a friendly crap" Well im sorry you cant have it both ways. Either get behind the team or stop moaning.

Knocks me sick.


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## Snelly (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Yeah ok. Your the one spouting crap and not backing it up with anything! :rofl:

Hardly deluded when what ive said is backed up with facts.

England arent winning trophies so I cant be bothered with them and they are crap. That's the typical English football fan and you seem to be one of them.
		
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Oh dear.

It is absolutely true that I don't care one iota about the England football team but that has nothing to with the fact that they don't win tournaments.

If I could be bothered, I would explain to you what I think is wrong with English football but I am busy and don't have the time.  Not only that, I would definitely cause offence to you and others and like my Grandad always said, If tha can't say owt nice, say nowt.


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## Iaing (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I would love us to win a tournament too unlikely though it is at the moment. Ive never said we are going to or give it the big un saying we are the best in the world etc. Ive never said we are better than Spain, Brazil etc etc either but we can beat them and we have done.

People are just to quick to say we are crap and have no chance. All these so called English people give the team crap all year round yet when the major tournaments come round they are there with their face paint, replica top and beer in hand singing Vindaloo.

We don't hammer teams like Scotland in a friendly and we are rubbish then we beat Spain in a friendly then its the old "Its only a friendly crap" Well im sorry you cant have it both ways. Either get behind the team or stop moaning.

Knocks me sick.
		
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Birchy said:



			I think you need to calm down 

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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Oh dear.

It is absolutely true that I don't care one iota about the England football team but that has nothing to with the fact that they don't win tournaments.

If I could be bothered, I would explain to you what I think is wrong with English football but I am busy and don't have the time.  Not only that, I would definitely cause offence to you and others and like my Grandad always said, If tha can't say owt nice, say nowt.
		
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There is a lot wrong and can be improved on I agree but there's no need for the irrational dislike for the England team which you seem to have. In fact a lot seem to think its fashionable to hate the England team. That's if your even a football fan at all as I suspect it runs deeper than hating just the England team.


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

Iaing said:





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Perfectly calm. Just cant stand all these people who constantly moan and call the England team crap.

I imagine they will say the same if by some miracle we reach next years world cup final though wont they?


I doubt it.


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## gregbwfc (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I would love us to win a tournament too unlikely though it is at the moment. Ive never said we are going to or give it the big un saying we are the best in the world etc. Ive never said we are better than Spain, Brazil etc etc either but we can beat them and we have done.

*People are just to quick to say we are crap and have no chance. All these so called English people give the team crap all year round yet when the major tournaments come round they are there with their face paint, replica top and beer in hand singing Vindaloo.*

We don't hammer teams like Scotland in a friendly and we are rubbish then we beat Spain in a friendly then its the old "Its only a friendly crap" Well im sorry you cant have it both ways. Either get behind the team or stop moaning.

Knocks me sick.
		
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Just ignore 'em.
Have a mate like this, so called Bolton fan who lets his lad support Manyoo - plain wrong.
I just laugh at him.

Anyway, back to the national team.
As before, Prem is the problem (and champs league, as in "I must be playing in champs league give me a move waaah waaah).
To much so-called talent concentated in too few teams (again who have zero interest in England).
If I was Hodgson, I would say right now, any player who is fit but not starting for his club regularly, doesn't get picked.
Cat, pigeons etc.
Think about it


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			There is a lot wrong and can be improved on I agree but there's no need for the irrational dislike for the England team which you seem to have.* In fact a lot seem to think its fashionable to hate the England team*. That's if your even a football fan at all as I suspect it runs deeper than hating just the England team.
		
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In fairness, some of us have always hated the England team.....


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

gregbwfc said:



			Just ignore 'em.
Have a mate like this, so called Bolton fan who lets his lad support Manyoo - plain wrong.
I just laugh at him.

Anyway, back to the national team.
As before, Prem is the problem (and champs league, as in "I must be playing in champs league give me a move waaah waaah).
To much so-called talent concentated in too few teams (again who have zero interest in England).
If I was Hodgson, I would say right now, any player who is fit but not starting for his club regularly, doesn't get picked.
Cat, pigeons etc.
Think about it 

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Very poor parentage that  Wouldn't be living under my roof!

The sooner the home grown player rules are toughened up the better in that sense imo. Too many players stockpiled so the big boys can have a massive squad. These players need to be proving it every week against the top players not having 20 minute cameos every week.


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## Birchy (Aug 16, 2013)

FairwayDodger said:



			In fairness, some of us have always hated the England team..... 

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Perfectly acceptable from rival fans 

When its English folk though its very, very sad and pathetic.


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## gregbwfc (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Very poor parentage that  Wouldn't be living under my roof!

*The sooner the home grown player rules are toughened up the better in that sense imo. Too many players stockpiled so the big boys can have a massive squad. These players need to be proving it every week against the top players not having 20 minute cameos every week.*

Click to expand...

:thup:

See Snelly, he's not delusional.
We need to incentivise the players.
Once they've got a contract at a top team, they're made for life.
Played in a comp at our club with a former Wanderer last week.
Played at a variety of clubs from mid 70's to early 90's.
Now works for Network Rail - no loafing about for him.
Be the same for most folk from the pre- prem era I guess.

Where's the need for say, Theo Walcott to learn what to actually do when he's got the ball at his feet ?
There isn't cos he's got his money.
This is what frustrates, young Walcott seems to have what it takes but too often plays like he's got both boots tied together.
And he's not alone.
Too many for too long been quite happy to pick up 25k+ a week for getting splinters on the bench.
Think we do have skillful players but most spend all game trying to outdo their own team mates (yes you Stevie Me !!)
Will never play as a true team when most REALLY don't like each other.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Can tell it was somebody Scottish who picked that :rofl:
		
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It was a BBC correspondent......blimey that really is a change, normally it would be 11 English players and the referee.

I don't think he was to far off the mark TBH.
Some of the Scottish back tracking was very impressive, especially Brown and Morrison..


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 16, 2013)

Looks like we might be getting a bit of a result at the golf though!

Halved the foursomes and up in six of the singles.
Quite a bit to go yet though.


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## SocketRocket (Aug 16, 2013)

Snelly said:



*You have a very simple outlook on this subject. And you are totally wrong. Wrong, and delusional.  A typical English football fan in fact. *

Have a nice weekend.
		
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Snelly said:



			Oh dear.

It is absolutely true that I don't care one iota about the England football team but that has nothing to with the fact that they don't win tournaments.

If I could be bothered, I would explain to you what I think is wrong with English football but I am busy and don't have the time.  Not only that, I would definitely cause offence to you and others and like *my Grandad always said, If tha can't say owt nice, say nowt*.
		
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  Strewth Snelly!!  You dont seem to have taken your Grandad's advice here


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## In_The_Rough (Aug 16, 2013)

Like where he said in my opinion of course. He then goes on to say what you quote. Must have had a bad day or round or worse still both. He will get over it


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 16, 2013)

Golf is very exciting..........it should be televised!

England 2-1 up. Both teams up in one match and the other five matches are all square. Last match is on the 12th.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 16, 2013)

Well done England good comeback.

Beaten at fitba and gowf in the same week.........sair tae bare.


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## Hacker Khan (Aug 16, 2013)

Birchy said:



			I would love us to win a tournament too unlikely though it is at the moment. Ive never said we are going to or give it the big un saying we are the best in the world etc. Ive never said we are better than Spain, Brazil etc etc either but we can beat them and we have done.

People are just to quick to say we are crap and have no chance. All these so called English people give the team crap all year round yet when the major tournaments come round they are there with their face paint, replica top and beer in hand singing Vindaloo.

We don't hammer teams like Scotland in a friendly and we are rubbish then we beat Spain in a friendly then its the old "Its only a friendly crap" Well im sorry you cant have it both ways. Either get behind the team or stop moaning.

Knocks me sick.
		
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For the record my stance is that friendlies are absolutely meaningless. We can beat Spain 10 nil or lose the the Faroes 5 nil, it means mostly chuff all.  I base my opinion on what we achieve when it matters, in the major championships, the European and World cups.  Which if I am not sadly mistaken, is not very impressive over the last 2 decades.  

Yes I am sure on a good day we could beat almost any team.  But show me a team in the world top 50 rankings that could not?  Being a good team is not about the ability to possibly beat any team on one day, it's about the consistency to perform well enough over a tournament to get to the business end of it.  And possibly even win one now and then.

I am not down on them because it is 'trendy' and believe you me, I have never sang vindaloo, had my face painted or wore a football shirt for any occasion apart from when I played football.  As football shirts are not fashion items, never have been and never will be.

I am down on them because they constantly under perform for the supposedly pool of talent and the wealth and standing of the league that they draw all of the players from.

(Na na na na na na na)
We're England!
We're gonna score one more than you
England!


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## SocketRocket (Aug 16, 2013)

English!!!   What's all that about anyway?


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