# Woolwich soldier killing



## Rooter (May 22, 2013)

Seriously messed up news, how two guys can do what has happened in broad daylight is truly beyond me. Thoughts go to the guys family and friends, truly shocking news. Am speechless.


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## Val (May 22, 2013)

Rooter said:



			Seriously messed up news, how two guys can do what has happened in broad daylight is truly beyond me. Thoughts go to the guys family and friends, truly shocking news. Am speechless.
		
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Unbelievable stuff, and if the rumours are true about who did it then we could see a spate of retribution (god forbid).

Horrible, thoughts to this poor guys family, what a horrible death.


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## G1BB0 (May 22, 2013)

my lad shown me a video of one of the blokes spouting off before they were shot claiming its just the start blah blah. I cant find it online now so probs been pulled.

absolutely sickening and I do fear retribution once the full facts are out.


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## upsidedown (May 22, 2013)

Truly awful news , our thoughts with his family.


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## SocketRocket (May 22, 2013)

'Puts on flameproof suit and stands braced for an infraction'

IMO we should not let one more person into this country from places like Pakistan and Somalia.

This post is not designed to be racist but as a consideration to improve our National security.   IMO these countries need to address the terrorist fractions in their countries before we assist them any further.


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			'Puts on flameproof suit and stands braced for an infraction'

IMO we should not let one more person into this country from places like Pakistan and Somalia.

This post is not designed to be racist but as a consideration to improve our National security.   IMO these countries need to address the terrorist fractions in their countries before we assist them any further.
		
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Really, could I ask how that would help when we have a significant number of radicalised British born muslims?


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## karlcole (May 22, 2013)

This is the sickening video 
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013...with-bloodied-hands-speaks-at-woolwich-scene/


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

G1BB0 said:



			my lad shown me a video of one of the blokes spouting off before they were shot claiming its just the start blah blah. I cant find it online now so probs been pulled.

absolutely sickening and I do fear retribution once the full facts are out.
		
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Well unless the Army has turned soft in the last 10 years, my best guess would be his Regiment will be out on the town tonight flattening everyone they don't like the look of.


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## Karl102 (May 22, 2013)

Just awful! Words can't describe it! I also feel the news were wrong to show the video. Imagine being the family of the deceased, just seeing him lay there....


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## SocketRocket (May 22, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Really, could I ask how that would help when we have a significant number of radicalised British born muslims?
		
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By stopping more from coming here.  That helps!

We also need to adopt the same policy used in Australia, 'Fit in or clear off' (or similar words)  The terrorists already here are another issue that will not be fixed by hand wringing Liberal policies.


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## GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY (May 22, 2013)

Shocked is an understatement. Not far from me either. This is the world we bring our kids into   My thoughts are with the victims family and friends.

As for fit in or clear off, you cant blame a whole religion or race for two sick individuals actions


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## Fader (May 22, 2013)

Sickening absolutley sickening.

Not that far from where HIDs family all live, surprised Media allowed to show the video so soon. There will no doubt be retribution and it is most likely the beginning of something as for the answer I don't know but something needs doing.


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## Val (May 22, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Well unless the Army has turned soft in the last 10 years, my best guess would be his Regiment will be out on the town tonight flattening everyone they don't like the look of.
		
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Big time, and I don't mean big time turning soft.


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			By stopping more from coming here.  That helps!
		
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More what muslims or radicalised muslims ?  Not every muslim is a terrorist.  To reiterate, there are enough extremists here amongst British citizens to commit a significant number of attrocities.


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## Mungoscorner (May 22, 2013)

Absolutely sickening.
Thoughts and prayers go out to that poor young lad and his family.


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## User20205 (May 22, 2013)

it's shocking 




SocketRocket said:



			IMO we should not let one more person into this country from places like Pakistan and Somalia.
		
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but this is knee jerk nonsense, few facts have come out and you have jumped to conclusions


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## Iaing (May 22, 2013)

Sickening.
It's a pity the police didn't finish the job.


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Well unless the Army has turned soft in the last 10 years, my best guess would be his Regiment will be out on the town tonight flattening everyone they don't like the look of.
		
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Valentino said:



			Big time, and I don't mean big time turning soft.
		
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They'll be on lock-down, also no uniforms on civi street. Apparently he was wearing a Help for Heroes T-shirt but still no confirmation that he was a serving soldier although Army chiefs in and out of Plumstead police station.

The base is home to the 2nd Battalion, The Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment.

And we can't deport a radical cleric after this!! Get the Brussels shackles off now!!


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## DAVEYBOY (May 22, 2013)

therod said:



			it's shocking 




but this is knee jerk nonsense, few facts have come out and you have jumped to conclusions 

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And this is part of the problem, our own sticking up for these people. I am guessing your not an immigrant?


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

Iaing said:



			Sickening.
It's a pity the police didn't finish the job.
		
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In a way I'm glad as that is what they would have wanted, to die and go to the promise land. Now I hope they rot in isolation somewhere.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			IMO we should not let one more person into this country from places like Pakistan and Somalia.
		
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Yeah, I'm sure Jimmy Saville was born in Islamabad!

Alas, there is no quick answer to today's events in Woolwich.  One of the guys involved appears to be London born and bred, judging by his accent.  

What is worrying is that the war in Iraq/Afghanistan is potentially an awful lot closer to home!

I am now genuinely worried for the near future - will there be reprisal attacks?  Will there be further murders?  There's a massive mosque in Woolwich - will that get torched?

Sad, sad times.


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## Slime (May 22, 2013)

Shocked and saddened.
Initial thoughts go to the family of that poor man.
Secondary thoughts on how we can prevent further atrocities .................. and I just don't have an answer.
Death penalty for sure, but that's too little too late, I really have no answer.
I'm so angry!

*Slime*.

P.S. Getting rid of people such as Abu Qatada would be a step in the right direction.


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## DAVEYBOY (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Yeah, I'm sure Jimmy Saville was born in Islamabad!

Alas, there is no quick answer to today's events in Woolwich.  One of the guys involved appears to be London born and bred, judging by his accent.  

What is worrying is that the war in Iraq/Afghanistan is potentially an awful lot closer to home!

I am now genuinely worried for the near future - will there be reprisal attacks?  Will there be further murders?  There's a massive mosque in Woolwich - will that get torched?

Sad, sad times. 

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The day will come when war will come to us and we fight against them in the streets, will the police be able to stop it... They didn't do a great job with the riots. 

It's good the army will be on our side. 

News flash!!! A mosque has been attacked in Essex. So people are seeking revenge already.


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## User20205 (May 22, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			And this is part of the problem, our own sticking up for these people. I am guessing your not an immigrant?
		
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My ethnic background is irrelevant & you know nothing about the background of the attackers & yet are willing to condemn a whole section of the population. 

It's a shocking appalling act, it's only just happened but  you want to use it to make some cheap political point, at least wait until some more facts are known. 

I would class myself as 'one of our own'. I think you and I are pretty far apart in attitude


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## sawtooth (May 22, 2013)

Extremely sad, god bless the soldier and his family.


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

therod said:



			My ethnic background is irrelevant & you know nothing about the background of the attackers & yet are willing to condemn a whole section of the population. 

It's a shocking appalling act, it's only just happened but  you want to use it to make some cheap political point, at least wait until some more facts are known. 

I would class myself as 'one of our own'. I think you and I are pretty far apart in attitude
		
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Here's a fact!

The man with the machete's full statement to the camera was:

    "We swear by Almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reasons we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day. This British soldier is an eye for an eye a tooth for tooth. We apologise that women had to see this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government. They don't care about you."

FACT!!


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## User20205 (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			What is worrying is that the war in Iraq/Afghanistan is potentially an awful lot closer to home!



Sad, sad times. 

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agree 100% we don't need to import terrorists, we have enough of our own. The 7/7 bombers were UK citizens


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



*The day will come when war will come to us and we fight against them in the streets*, will the police be able to stop it... They didn't do a great job with the riots. 

It's good the army will be on our side. 

News flash!!! A mosque has been attacked in Essex. So people are seeking revenge already.
		
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Enoch Powell predicted that before you were even thought of, The infamous 'Rivers of Blood' speech, wasn't true then, isn't true now.


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## User20205 (May 22, 2013)

Fish said:



			Here's a fact!

The man with the machete's full statement to the camera was:

    "We swear by Almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reasons we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day. This British soldier is an eye for an eye a tooth for tooth. We apologise that women had to see this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government. They don't care about you."

FACT!!
		
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doesn't mean he's not from the UK


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## User20205 (May 22, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			News flash!!! A mosque has been attacked in Essex. So people are seeking revenge already.
		
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How does that make you feel ?


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## DAVEYBOY (May 22, 2013)

Yes living in Birmingham gives me daily contact with these people and I'm not the type who waits around to see if a dodgy looking Muslim is peaceful or not.

One of our own who has more than likely fought for our country has been butchered by these pieces of absolute :sbox: 

Lets wait for the background of these scum bags to come out then we will continue the discussion.


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## DAVEYBOY (May 22, 2013)

therod said:



			How does that make you feel ?
		
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Like they said themselves an eye for an eye.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			And this is part of the problem, our own sticking up for these people. I am guessing your not an immigrant?
		
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But one of them was 'our own'!  He sounded very much born and bred London.

That's what makes this a very, very difficult and delicate issue.  

What do you suggest?  We round up everyone with a foreign accent, everyone with dark skin and everyone who isn't a Christian?  What would we do with them?


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## User20205 (May 22, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			Like they said themselves an eye for an eye.
		
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two radicalised criminals attack and kill an innocent soldier and you want more innocent people to suffer 

if you really believe that you are kind of missing the whole point of what we are fighting for.


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## Blue in Munich (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			Alas, there is no quick answer to today's events in Woolwich.  One of the guys involved appears to be London born and bred, judging by his accent.
		
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Agreed, but he then talks about what happens in "our land", which suggests that whilst probably born here, his sympathies lie further overseas.

Mine lie with the young man's family.  RIP.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I'm not the type who waits around to see if a dodgy looking Muslim is peaceful or not.

.
		
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What does that mean?  

Are you implying that you randomly attack Muslim looking people?  I hope not.


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## DAVEYBOY (May 22, 2013)

I'm going to leave this thread with this video that I posted on another thread on here the other day... Watch it then think about what you would do with these people if you had the power.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo

I'm not going to read further or comment further as I will get wound up and post my real views which I can imagine you can already guess a lot of them. Living in Birmingham has made me a little less tolerant towards these types than most.


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			But one of them was 'our own'!  He sounded very much born and bred London.

That's what makes this a very, very difficult and delicate issue.  

What do you suggest?  We round up everyone with a foreign accent, everyone with dark skin and everyone who isn't a Christian?  What would we do with them?
		
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We are more than aware of who the radical clerics are and where their teaching which turn these individuals. We have to start getting rid of them without all the human rights rubbish that they surround and protect themselves with. 

We have to start getting tough politically, we are an island, it should be so much easier but we have too many liberal views even when appalling acts like this happen and our on laws are overturned by Brussels, ridiculous!


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## beggsy (May 22, 2013)

Anyone that sticks up for these dirty vile creatures needs a slap themselves end of story


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

Blue in Munich said:



			Agreed, but he then talks about what happens in "our land", which suggests that whilst probably born here, his sympathies lie further overseas.

Mine lie with the young man's family.  RIP.
		
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I have long held a theory regarding this issue,  I believe that to a substantial number of Muslims the issue of nationality is totally immaterial and an irrelevance, they belong to the nation of Islam.  Their 'lands' could therefore be any traditionally muslim country - and in this case any where there is aggressive western or Israeli interference.


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## GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY (May 22, 2013)

I live minutes away from Woolwich, I have  neighbours and friends from all back grounds, all cultures, religions, people born here whose parents came from another country, good, hard working, honest and decent people. You think its as simple as 'kick em back to their own country' rah rah rah? We are a multicultural country now.

EDL apparantly on their way to Woolwich


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## Dodger (May 22, 2013)

beggsy said:



			Anyone that sticks up for these dirty vile creatures needs a slap themselves end of story
		
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Post of the thread.

I am 100% in support of this post.


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

beggsy said:



			Anyone that sticks up for these dirty vile creatures needs a slap themselves end of story
		
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Correct, care to quote a post where anyone stuck up for them?


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			I have long held a theory regarding this issue,  I believe that to a substantial number of Muslims the issue of nationality is totally immaterial and an irrelevance, they belong to the nation of Islam.  Their 'lands' could therefore be any traditionally muslim country - and in this case any where there is aggressive western or Israeli interference.
		
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Galloway has already jumped on the bandwagon saying its for supporting Syria!


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY said:



			EDL apparantly on their way to Woolwich 

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What are they going to do? get drunk and sing a bit?


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## User20205 (May 22, 2013)

beggsy said:



			Anyone that sticks up for these dirty vile creatures needs a slap themselves end of story
		
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who is sticking up for them. It's a shocking act, I hope they live so they can be punished appropriately. 



GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY said:



			EDL apparantly on their way to Woolwich 

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I just don't want it to be a justification for this. If we start acting like the taliban we have lost !


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

Fish said:



			Galloway has already jumped on the bandwagon saying its for supporting Syria!
		
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Years ago that muppet would have been banged up for treason.


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## Aztecs27 (May 22, 2013)

DAVEYBOY said:



			I'm going to leave this thread with this video that I posted on another thread on here the other day... Watch it then think about what you would do with these people if you had the power.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo

I'm not going to read further or comment further as I will get wound up and post my real views which I can imagine you can already guess a lot of them. Living in Birmingham has made me a little less tolerant towards these types than most.
		
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Judging from your posts in this thread, I can only assume you're one of the BNP voters?


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## Dodger (May 22, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Correct, care to quote a post where anyone stuck up for them?
		
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I am not aware he said anyone on here was sticking up for them but I am aware of people worldwide almost trying to justify their acts.


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## Dodger (May 22, 2013)

One question I have is how were the media able to have a chat with the nut job before the police got there? 

Fast response from the Met's finest but not to worry I am sure they will have their hands full and plenty of overtime in the coming days......


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## stevelev (May 22, 2013)

Thoughts with the family of the unfortunate soldier. 

I remember back in the early 90's not being allowed into Woolwich on certain nights. It seems no matter what day or time the streets of the country are becoming more dangerous year on year.

Unless we begin to expunge radicals and tighten our borders this will only increase. The worst thing was the media showing any footage whatsoever, the police should have confiscated all media to prevent any message or ideas getting out to other radicals.

RIP Son of Britain.


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## sawtooth (May 22, 2013)

I'm not one calling for any retribution because its obvious that innocent Muslims will suffer.

What I want to see is zero tolerance of sickening individuals such as these. Anyone who is responsible for acts of terror need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. No more pussy footing around, a much , much stronger message needs to go out.

Things are so messed up in this country. Believe it or not they are already talking about the independent police commission looking into the shooting of the 2 men. I swore at the telly at that point.


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## richy (May 22, 2013)

Dodger said:



			One question I have is how were the media able to have a chat with the nut job before the police got there? 

Fast response from the Met's finest but not to worry I am sure they will have their hands full and plenty of overtime in the coming days......
		
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I think that footage was from witness's, on their phones etc


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

Dodger said:



			One question I have is how were the media able to have a chat with the nut job before the police got there? 

Fast response from the Met's finest but not to worry I am sure they will have their hands full and plenty of overtime in the coming days......
		
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It wasn't the media, it was an eye witness.  BBC had him on their news tonight.

I live in the same street as two MET officers and they both confirmed that, in this instance, they would have to wait for armed response before doing anything.  The two people were heavily armed and, thus, a beat bobby would have required armed back up.

They will, however, be very busy tonight....


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

stevelev said:



			I remember back in the early 90's not being allowed into Woolwich on certain nights.
		
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That would have been the students....


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

sawtooth said:



			Believe it or not they are already talking about the independent police commission looking into the shooting of the 2 men. I swore at the telly at that point.
		
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I believe that they are called in whenever a Policeperson fires an armed weapon.

I'm confident that in this case the IPC will find that everything is in order.oo:


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## SocketRocket (May 22, 2013)

GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY said:



			' rah rah rah? We are a multicultural country now.
		
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No one asked me if I wanted to be multicultural! I was quite happy with our culture as it was.   This was decided by the political elite who dont know what its like to live in a multicultural society.

The problem is not one of culture its one of Nationalism.  In the USA for example there are people of many cultures but the vast majority are very proud of their nation.  Almost every porch has a stars & stripes on it.  We are a divided Nation but it seems to be the responsibility of the man in the street to accept other cultures while surrendering their own.

Some people on here need to open their eyes to what kind of Britain we are preparing for our children and grandchildren.


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

sawtooth said:



			I'm not one calling for any retribution because its obvious that innocent Muslims will suffer.

What I want to see is zero tolerance of sickening individuals such as these. Anyone who is responsible for acts of terror need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. No more pussy footing around, a much , much stronger message needs to go out.

Things are so messed up in this country. Believe it or not they are already talking about the independent police commission looking into the shooting of the 2 men. I swore at the telly at that point.
		
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I think you will find that anytime plod pulls the trigger there will be an investigation (and quite rightly).  
Northern Ireland was the same in the 90's, the 'flying lawyer' was out right away; if you fired a shot it was with the intention of taking life and therefore it had to be proved that you had acted in accordance with the yellow card.


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## Dodger (May 22, 2013)

richy said:



			I think that footage was from witness's, on their phones etc
		
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Weird, last thing I would think of doing if a big black chava with a cleaver and blood all over his hands approached me would be to whip my mobile out to film him.

Each to their own.


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## stevelev (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			That would have been the students.... 

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No not the students, that would make little difference. It was terrorist threat, also barred from using certain pubs at all time too. Just hope the threat does not increase, the forces today are underpaid overworked and not as appreciated as should be by many.

Hopefully these 2 attackers are an isolated pair. 

Rather than dispute many possibilities, lets just think of the family that have had to sit through the horrific sight of their son, brother or husband mowed down and butchered in the street..... For what loving his country and taking an oath to help those he was ordered to in other countries.  RIP


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

Good piece written here but sad to hear of EDL rumblings already in London.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...have-something-sinister-in-store-8628100.html


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## stevelev (May 22, 2013)

Fish said:



			Good piece written here but sad to hear of EDL rumblings already in London.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...have-something-sinister-in-store-8628100.html

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gree, shame people will think that the EDL is an answer


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## Crow (May 22, 2013)

This is an absolutely terrible act and nobody can deny that.

But any response should be made through the law of our country and not through acts of revenge by groups or individuals.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			No one asked me if I wanted to be multicultural! I was quite happy with our culture as it was.   This was decided by the political elite who dont know what its like to live in a multicultural society.

The problem is not one of culture its one of Nationalism.  In the USA for example there are people of many cultures but the vast majority are very proud of their nation.  Almost every porch has a stars & stripes on it.  We are a divided Nation but it seems to be the responsibility of the man in the street to accept other cultures while surrendering their own.

Some people on here need to open their eyes to what kind of Britain we are preparing for our children and grandchildren.
		
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Oh dear.

I've lived in London my entire life.  My best mate when I was 11 was from Cyprus.  A nicer family you could not meet!  My next best mate was from Poland.  Once again, a lovely family.  I have friends from Nigeria, India, Pakistan and various other countries from around the world.

America, you say.  Aren't there parts of New York that have been completely taken over by the various inhabitants?  For example, you have the Hispanic sector.  You can't go in there unless you are Hispanic.  Yes, I'd love to live in a city like that.
Also, the South of America is known for it's accommodating nature, isn't it!  I think Borat showed America up for what it really is.

No, there's nothing wrong with being a multi-cultural society.  It enriches everyone of us.


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## SocketRocket (May 22, 2013)

Fish said:



			We are more than aware of who the radical clerics are and where their teaching which turn these individuals. We have to start getting rid of them without all the human rights rubbish that they surround and protect themselves with. 

We have to start getting tough politically, we are an island, it should be so much easier but we have too many liberal views even when appalling acts like this happen and our on laws are overturned by Brussels, ridiculous!
		
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Good post Fish.


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## richart (May 22, 2013)

Just barbaric. Thoughts are with the soldiers family and friends.


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## GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY (May 22, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			No one asked me if I wanted to be multicultural! I was quite happy with our culture as it was.   This was decided by the political elite who dont know what its like to live in a multicultural society.

The problem is not one of culture its one of Nationalism.  In the USA for example there are people of many cultures but the vast majority are very proud of their nation.  Almost every porch has a stars & stripes on it.  We are a divided Nation but it seems to be the responsibility of the man in the street to accept other cultures while surrendering their own.

Some people on here need to open their eyes to what kind of Britain we are preparing for our children and grandchildren.
		
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I consider myself British, its my country. The people i mentioned in my previous post consider themselves just as British as me. So because i'm white and british 'born and bred' what religion should I be? Should I be made to follow a particular god because of where i am from? What if I have aculturalback ground, and wish to change my beliefs? Its called FREEDOM mate, freedom of choice. 

You dont need to surrender your beliefs, you just need to accept others beliefs.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

Dodger said:



			Weird, last thing I would think of doing if a big black chava with a cleaver and blood all over his hands approached me would be to whip my mobile out to film him.

Each to their own.
		
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They were asking to be filmed.


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## In_The_Rough (May 22, 2013)

Been in bed the past few days with manflu but saw the news tonight and am shocked by what I saw. RIP and condolences to the victims family and friends. We really need to open our eyes at bit now and see what is going on and take tougher stances and get these radicals kicked out. Far to many people with their heads buried in the sand and spineless MP's who refuse to act for fear of losing a few votes. Get the forces brought back from all these pointless wars we get involved in that nobody thanks us for.


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## Dodger (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			They were asking to be filmed.
		
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Either way I would have ran for the hills no whipped out my mobile!

I ask many things of my other half I wish she was as accommodating as the filmer!!


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## GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY (May 22, 2013)

Hitler shared the Christian faith, dont stereotype an entire religion from the actions of a few.


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## sawtooth (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			I believe that they are called in whenever a Policeperson fires an armed weapon.

I'm confident that in this case the IPC will find that everything is in order.oo:
		
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Thats fair enough, I just dont want to be hearing about any long drawn out inquiry about whether the police did the right thing or not. 

I digress but how long did it take this country to export a certain man (with a hook as a hand) for evangelising terrorism? This is where we need to toughen up and quickly. Anyone found guilty of plotting, planning, supporting, promoting acts of terror need to be dealt with severly. For me we are far too soft on this sort of thing.


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## SocketRocket (May 22, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			No, there's nothing wrong with being a multi-cultural society.  It enriches everyone of us.
		
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In your opinion!  As I said previously I quite liked our own culture before it got politically modified.

Have you ever been to the USA? I doubt it by your post.    If you want to know what a divided city looks like then spend a few days in Smethwick.     The people you mention in your posts were British Nationals, they didn't live here and hate us.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

sawtooth said:



			I digress but how long did it take this country to export a certain man (with a hook as a hand) for evangelising terrorism? This is where we need to toughen up and quickly. Anyone found guilty of plotting, planning, supporting, promoting acts of terror need to be dealt with severly. For me we are far too soft on this sort of thing.
		
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Tony Blair's missus was the main exponent of 'human rights' I believe.

Somewhere along the line we've decided that the human rights of the wrong doer far out weigh the rights of the innocent!


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY said:



			Hitler shared the Christian faith, dont stereotype an entire religion from the actions of a few.
		
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Agreed:  A MUSLIM woman saved someone (a soldier) from being murdered by CHRISTIAN SERB's whilst serving in Bosnia. This is why stereotyping is so wrong.


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

Oh dear

http://news.sky.com/story/1094514/woolwich-riot-police-contain-edl-supporters

Brave with their masks on ain't they?


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## tyke (May 22, 2013)

Absolutely astonished with certain peoples views on here.
I served 23 years in the forces including many war zones, 5 tours of Belfast, the Falklands, Iraq, Sierra leone, Bosnia and Kosova, to read people siding with these fanatics makes my blood boil
God rest the young soldier and my thoughts are with his family and friends.
Good-bye golf monthly.


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			In your opinion!  As I said previously I quite liked our own culture before it got politically modified.

Have you ever been to the USA? I doubt it by your post.    If you want to know what a divided city looks like then spend a few days in Smethwick.     The people you mention in your posts were British Nationals, they didn't live here and hate us.
		
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No, you're right.  Absolutely every horrible thing that has ever happened in this country has been done by a foreigner or by someone with dark skin or by someone who wasn't a Christian.

Dr Harold Shipman - where was he from?
Ian Huntley - where was he from?
Myra Hindley - where was she from?
Fred West - where was he from?


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## Dodger (May 22, 2013)

Cameron "They will never beat the values that we hold dear"

What effing values are they David?

Go on tell me I am all ears...


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## AuburnWarrior (May 22, 2013)

tyke said:



			to read people siding with these fanatics makes my blood boil

Click to expand...

Who has sided with the perpetrators?


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## richy (May 22, 2013)

tyke said:



			Absolutely astonished with certain peoples views on here.
I served 23 years in the forces including many war zones, 5 tours of Belfast, the Falklands, Iraq, Sierra leone, Bosnia and Kosova, to read people siding with these fanatics makes my blood boil
God rest the young soldier and my thoughts are with his family and friends.
Good-bye golf monthly.
		
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Who's siding with them?


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## In_The_Rough (May 22, 2013)

Fish said:



			Oh dear

http://news.sky.com/story/1094514/woolwich-riot-police-contain-edl-supporters

Brave with their masks on ain't they?
		
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Was always gonna happen. Going to have masks on though aren't they as they will no doubt be investigated or put on file


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## Fish (May 22, 2013)

In_The_Rough said:



			Was always gonna happen. Going to have masks on though aren't they as they will no doubt be investigated or put on file
		
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But if they believe their actions to be just, why cover up, the murderers didn't?

Showing absolutely no compassion to the family of the lost soldier and no doubt terrifying local families, old & young with their actions. They don't represent anyone other than bigots but the taxpayer (of which they will not be) will pick up the bill again for their vandalism!


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## In_The_Rough (May 22, 2013)

Fish said:



			But if they believe their actions to be just, why cover up,* the murderers didn't*?

Showing absolutely no compassion to the family of the lost soldier and no doubt terrifying local families, old & young with their actions. They don't represent anyone other than bigots but the taxpayer (of which they will not be) will pick up the bill again for their vandalism!
		
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Because they wanted to be caught where as the EDL members don't? Not sure you can label those at the riot as being non taxpayers either- they might be but then again they might not. Not condoning rioting by the way but if I were one of them there I would not want to be identified either


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

tyke said:



			Absolutely astonished with certain peoples views on here.
I served 23 years in the forces including many war zones, 5 tours of Belfast, the Falklands, Iraq, Sierra leone, Bosnia and Kosova, to read people siding with these fanatics makes my blood boil
God rest the young soldier and my thoughts are with his family and friends.
Good-bye golf monthly.
		
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quote where people have sided with them


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## stevie_r (May 22, 2013)

Fish said:



			But if they believe their actions to be just, why cover up, the murderers didn't?

Showing absolutely no compassion to the family of the lost soldier and no doubt terrifying local families, old & young with their actions. They don't represent anyone other than bigots *but the taxpayer (of which they will not be)* will pick up the bill again for their vandalism!
		
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Ridiculous stereotypical generalisation


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## blackpuddinmonster (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			I just don't want it to be a justification for this. If we start acting like the taliban we have lost !
		
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A few days ago, despite having doubts i said that one day we would agree on something. Todays that day.
I've avoided getting involved in this thread because i'am absolutly appalled by the actions of these two individuals,and whats happening here is exactly what they want to happen.
I don't have any answers, i don't have any solutions,but i have an idea what isn't the answer.
You don't fight extremisn with extremism,because it just breeds more extremisn. Its a vicious circle. Come on people were're better than this. Were're better than them.
Instead of seeking revenge we would be better following the example of people like Colin and Wendy Parry.Their immense bravery and fortitude in the face of a simular attrocity did more to change radical idealism in Ireland and bring about peace, than anything else in the previous 24 yrs.
We are supposed to be the civilised ones here. Lets keep it that way. Please.


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## JPH (May 23, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			A few days ago, despite having doubts i said that one day we would agree on something. Todays that day.
I've avoided getting involved in this thread because i'am absolutly appalled by the actions of these two individuals,and whats happening here is exactly what they want to happen.
I don't have any answers, i don't have any solutions,but i have an idea what isn't the answer.
You don't fight extremisn with extremism,because it just breeds more extremisn. Its a vicious circle. Come on people were're better than this. Were're better than them.
Instead of seeking revenge we would be better following the example of people like Colin and Wendy Parry.Their immense bravery and fortitude in the face of a simular attrocity did more to change radical idealism in Ireland and bring about peace, than anything else in the previous 24 yrs.
We are supposed to be the civilised ones here. Lets keep it that way. Please.
		
Click to expand...

word


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## Hacker Khan (May 23, 2013)

JPH said:



			word
		
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Good article in the Daily mash today which I will quote verbatim

_MEN wearing balaclavas have been making a dreadful situation better.
_






Fat ninjas



_As nearly all Britons find themselves able to carry on with the  peaceful mundanity of their lives, men wearing stupid knitted masks  offered Britain the prospect of civil war that it has been yearning for.
_
_
Balaclava fan Tom Logan said: â€œWhat this country needs now is for everyone to start lobbing petrol bombs around. â€œAnyone who cares about England has a duty to set it on fire, or at least smash a bunch of windows. â€œAlso, stop thinking. Bypass your brain, jump to hate-filled conclusions and let rampant prejudice be your guide.â€

_
_Professor Henry Brubaker said: â€œHistory, and also common sense, tells  us that in any situation the person whose features are disguised by a  stupid hat is not the person you should listen to.  â€œIn fact masks in general, whether tight-fitting on part of a white  pointy hat, are a good indicator of insanity, unless itâ€™s Halloween or  youâ€™re at an elite fictional orgy.
_
_
Muslim father-of-two Rafi Ahmed said: â€œAs far as Iâ€™m aware, Iâ€™ve got no plans to bring Western civilisation to its knees. â€œIâ€™ll probably go to work, come home and eat my tea.â€
_


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## Region3 (May 23, 2013)

Dodger said:



			Weird, last thing I would think of doing if a big black chava with a cleaver and blood all over his hands approached me would be to whip my mobile out to film him.

Each to their own.
		
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There was also a woman who tried to talk the weapons from one attacker, and others who shielded the body from further attack and stood between the attackers and the body to do so.

Incredible.


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## Aztecs27 (May 23, 2013)

Love the Daily Mash!

That last quote is genius.


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## Sweep (May 23, 2013)

Fish said:



			We are more than aware of who the radical clerics are and where their teaching which turn these individuals. We have to start getting rid of them without all the human rights rubbish that they surround and protect themselves with. 

We have to start getting tough politically, we are an island, it should be so much easier but we have too many liberal views even when appalling acts like this happen and our on laws are overturned by Brussels, ridiculous!
		
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Excellent post.


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## mcbroon (May 23, 2013)

blackpuddinmonster said:



			A few days ago, despite having doubts i said that one day we would agree on something. Todays that day.
I've avoided getting involved in this thread because i'am absolutly appalled by the actions of these two individuals,and whats happening here is exactly what they want to happen.
I don't have any answers, i don't have any solutions,but i have an idea what isn't the answer.
You don't fight extremisn with extremism,because it just breeds more extremisn. Its a vicious circle. Come on people were're better than this. Were're better than them.
Instead of seeking revenge we would be better following the example of people like Colin and Wendy Parry.Their immense bravery and fortitude in the face of a simular attrocity did more to change radical idealism in Ireland and bring about peace, than anything else in the previous 24 yrs.
We are supposed to be the civilised ones here. Lets keep it that way. Please.
		
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Well said BPM.  

I don't have any answers either, I just hope there's no serious reprisals, no copycat efforts and that the perpetrators face the full force of the justice system.

I can't really get my head around what has happened here.  It's literally beyond my comprehension that anyone can do that to another person.  It's horrible for the victim's family, and that's where our thoughts should be. 

Also, I've read every post on this thread and nowhere have I seen anything that remotely resembles support for the killers.  Nobody is on their side.


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## Sweep (May 23, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			No one asked me if I wanted to be multicultural! I was quite happy with our culture as it was.   This was decided by the political elite who dont know what its like to live in a multicultural society.

Some people on here need to open their eyes to what kind of Britain we are preparing for our children and grandchildren.
		
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Excellent post.
"Multiculturalism in the United Kingdom has failed". Now who said that?...... Oh yes, David Cameron.


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## cookelad (May 23, 2013)

Last night as my train approached Woolwich Dockyard station n announcement was made to the effect "This train will not be stopping at Woolwich Arsenal station tonight any commuters for Woolwich Arsenal should use Plumstead Station".

OK that's fine Plumstead is approx 500yards further along the line and it makes no difference to the distance I walk, if anything it's a little closer but the area I would have to walk through is normally what I would call a little less 'friendly' than the Arsenal route. Of course what seems to have been forgotten was that Plumstead Station is 100yards or so from........ a mosque, so anybody catching a train to join in with the "EDL" "protest" would be getting off the train and walking straight past said mosque back towards the square in Woolwich. Needless to say there was a massive police presence outside the building and as far as I'm aware any trouble outside was non-existent or quickly stamped out.


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## JPH (May 23, 2013)

Sweep said:



			Excellent post.
"Multiculturalism in the United Kingdom has failed". Now who said that?...... Oh yes, David Cameron.
		
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Like he knows his bottom  from his elbow


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## Aztecs27 (May 23, 2013)

An actual quote from someone in our office today.

"Just send them all back to where they came from" 

What, South London?


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## Fish (May 23, 2013)

Statement I never like hearing just announced on Sky, "security services have confirmed that the 2 involved were known to them!"


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## SyR (May 23, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			'Puts on flameproof suit and stands braced for an infraction'

IMO we should not let one more person into this country from places like Pakistan and Somalia.

This post is not designed to be racist but as a consideration to improve our National security.   IMO these countries need to address the terrorist fractions in their countries before we assist them any further.
		
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What an overtly racist statement. Shame on you.


I feel for the victim of this attack. It's a vile and shocking crime. I'm glad they were caught and I just hope our legal system is strong enough to hand out lengthy terms for these two.


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## Fish (May 23, 2013)

SyR said:



			What an overtly racist statement. Shame on you.


I feel for the victim of this attack. It's a vile and shocking crime. I'm glad they were caught and I just hope our legal system is strong enough to hand out lengthy terms for these two.
		
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"Lengthy"?

How about INDEFINITE!!


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## SyR (May 23, 2013)

Fish said:



			"Lengthy"?

How about INDEFINITE!!
		
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Given they seem to be fairly young, and how weak our legal system can be, I struggle to believe life will actually mean life.


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## Wolfman (May 23, 2013)

Fish said:



			"Lengthy"?

How about INDEFINITE!!
		
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Firstly I agree with socketRocket, we need MORE people to think this way not less

And legal system what a joke, how about question them and then toss them into the Woolwich barracks and let our boys pass sentence and deal with them, send out a strong message once and for all, film it and shove it on Youtube


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## Birchy (May 23, 2013)

Weve gone completely soft as a nation. Too many people offering up rights to people intent on causing pain and terror in our own country FGS. Our soldiers fight all over the world to keep us safe but why bother when we are just letting people with terrorist intent roam in our own backyard freely??


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## car.crash (May 23, 2013)

It does feel as if we are out to save people in Afghanistan yet let our own get slaughtered, bombed and hate preachers get away with it on our door step.
Its near on impossible to infiltrate attacks like this but when people are marching through our streets shouting death to the west etc I would like to see more done.


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## scratch (May 23, 2013)

Aztecs27 said:



			An actual quote from someone in our office today.

"Just send them all back to where they came from" 

What, South London?
		
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Haha yeah a little extreme but almost a valid point.

What is really infuriating though is that the intelligence services have a good knowledge of who the troublemakers and ringleaders are, many (not all!) of them non British citizens but they are pretty much powerless to kick them out of the country "back to where they came from" because of their human rights etc.

What about the dead soldier's human rights?


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## User20205 (May 23, 2013)

What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs. 

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005. 

The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic. 

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain


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## User20205 (May 23, 2013)

What is really infuriating though is that the intelligence services have a good knowledge of who the troublemakers and ringleaders are, many (not all!) of them non British citizens but they are pretty much powerless to kick them out of the country "back to where they came from" because of their human rights etc.
		
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there is nowhere to send them back to, most are UK born 2/3 generation. I be all for managed proactive policing/dentention/profiling but this is a dangerous road to go down


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs. 

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005. 

*The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !*

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic. 

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain
		
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An excellent point and one I was considering making myself.


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## forefortheday (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs. 

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005. 

The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic. 

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain
		
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Great point well made.  :thup:


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			there is nowhere to send them back to, most are UK born 2/3 generation. I be all for managed proactive policing/dentention/profiling but this is a dangerous road to go down
		
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Nail hit firmly on the head there.


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

Birchy said:



			Weve gone completely soft as a nation. Too many people offering up rights to people intent on causing pain and terror in our own country FGS. Our soldiers fight all over the world to keep us safe but why bother when we are just letting people with terrorist intent roam in our own backyard freely??
		
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Utter rot.
The Taliban were of no threat to us at all in this country.
Saddam's regime was of no threat to us at all in this country.
We are unfortunately reaping what we ourselves sowed through Blair being Bush's little lap dog.


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## MegaSteve (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !
		
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Perhaps 'we' were wrong not to do so... Not saying 'we' were... Just asking the question...


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## Sweep (May 23, 2013)

Aztecs27 said:



			An actual quote from someone in our office today.

"Just send them all back to where they came from" 

What, South London?
		
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And therein lies the problem. They may be from South London and technically they may be British, but culturally they aren't. They weren't talking about South London when they spoke about their land. They may be British, but they are not of British descent and they have failed to integrate to such an extent they don't feel British. This is why multiculturalism has failed. In fact they hate Britain so much they want to attack us. They are only British when it suits them. 
In the WW2 it was easier to identify the enemy and we just interned anyone who was German. Even then it was controversial. We can't do that now, but neither can we go to war against the Taliban and the Ba'ath party and ask their supporters to come and live with us.


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## bladeplayer (May 23, 2013)

Sad sad day even for the need for a post like this , ive being reading all the replys & all even the ones i dont agree with have to be respected because its a raw subject .. i for one would not tar all race or creeds with the 1 brush tho ..  you have to be careful on this .. 

Im Irish, however  im not IRA never have or never will have the inclination to bomb your country , so please dont include me in anything they did in the name of patriotisim or what ever they call it .. 

I grew up seeing football voilence & now racist chanting in English (aswell as others) football , are all football fans hooligans & racists ? 
Can ya see where im going with these examples ..

However i would draw a strong line in the sand if people protested in the towns & cities of Ireland about killing Irish people or against an Irish way of Life .. 

I dont or wouldnt classs myself as a racist , if a family from another country want to come here and set up family & live , good for them , but they have to contribute to & fit in to the society that exists , we should respect their beliefs but we should not have to change our society to fit people who chose to join it , 

If my country & our beliefs are not good enough for you feel free to leave at any time .. My inlaws lived in Teheran for a few years , when family visited them they strictly obeyed Teheran/Iranian law or got arrested ..

I read today that one of the first few people to leave flowers was an Islamic man , who also claimed that it was not done in his name or in the name of his religion , im sure there are others .. 

Thoughts & best wishes to the family of the bereaved , & please think before posting on the thread , this subject is not as fickle as some we argue over & the enormity of it does not deserve bitter squabbles amongst ourselves ..


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## bladeplayer (May 23, 2013)

MegaSteve said:



			Perhaps 'we' were wrong not to do so... Not saying 'we' were... Just asking the question...
		
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What about the thousands of Irish that  lived there then & since   peacefuly  & contributed to building GB ? did they deserved to be treated that way ?

If my brother is a murderer am i ?


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## Birchy (May 23, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Utter rot.
The Taliban were of no threat to us at all in this country.
Saddam's regime was of no threat to us at all in this country.
We are unfortunately reaping what we ourselves sowed through Blair being Bush's little lap dog.
		
Click to expand...

So your privvy to all threats against our national security are you? 

Thought not.


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

Birchy said:



			So your privvy to all threats against our national security are you? 

Thought not.
		
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Unfortunately not, neither are you.

Prior to 2001 did you feel at threat from Islamic fundamentalism?


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## MegaSteve (May 23, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			What about the thousands of Irish that  lived there then & since   peacefuly  & contributed to building GB ? did they deserved to be treated that way ?

If my brother is a murderer am i ?
		
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As I said... "Just asking the question"... 

One thing I am super proud of, as an Englishman, is how tolerant we are of 'others' despite how 'aggressive' many 'others' are toward us... I am fully aware of the 'positives' of being multi-cultured has brought to my country... However I have also seen how some have taken advantage of 'our' tolerance and abused it...


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## sydney greenstreet (May 23, 2013)

This thread won't last the night.


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## StrangelyBrown (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs. 

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005. 

The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic. 

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain
		
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Terrific post Rod.


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## Birchy (May 23, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			Unfortunately not, neither are you.

Prior to 2001 did you feel at threat from Islamic fundamentalism?
		
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No and i still dont now but the army is there to serve and protect imo and i have to trust people making the decisions are doing it for good reason (thats probably another argument ). I dont have much choice to trust them true but thats irrelevent in this instance imo.

Sending our soldiers out to risk their lives for whatever reason is just utterly ridiculous when on our own shores we wont even stand up to this scum. Its makes my blood boil.


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

Birchy said:



			No and i still dont now but the army is there to serve and protect imo and i have to trust people making the decisions are doing it for good reason (thats probably another argument ). I dont have much choice to trust them true but thats irrelevent in this instance imo.

Sending our soldiers out to risk their lives for whatever reason is just utterly ridiculous when on our own shores we wont even stand up to this scum. Its makes my blood boil.
		
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As far as I am concerned there is no point to the British Army being in Afghanistan, I would have no desire to live under the Taliban regime; however, they were no threat to us what so ever.  Now if we were there destroying the poppy harvest I could see the point - that is a real and current threat, but we aren't.

The primary reason we went to war against Saddam (the second time) was supposedly because he had access to WMD and we needed to remove that threat - never found them did we?  I remember my wife being mobilised for service in Iraq in the spring of 2003; prior to her deployment I quizzed her as to whether she had been issued two new cannisters for her S10 respirator and a new Nuclear Biological Chemical suit (Standard practise on deployment when there is a NBC threat) - she hadn't.  Now doesn't that strike you as really odd?

I feel fortunate that I believed fully in every operational deployment I went on and felt that I was making a positive difference.

So Birchy, you can continue to believe that the powers that be are making decisions in our interest, but please please occasionally remove your head from the sand to take a breath.


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## mcbroon (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs. 

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005. 

The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic. 

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain
		
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StrangelyBrown said:



			Terrific post Rod.
		
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Yup.  Well said.


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## User20205 (May 23, 2013)

Before any Irish fellas get twitchy, just using a ridiculous example to illustrate the point.:thup:

I read something pertinent on twitter 'the bigots are reading from the terrorists script' 

All they've got are random acts designed to make us turn in on ourselves!


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## scratch (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			there is nowhere to send them back to, most are UK born 2/3 generation. I be all for managed proactive policing/dentention/profiling but this is a dangerous road to go down
		
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Yes some are born and bred 'British' but as stated by others, they have no affinity with this country or it's beliefs and traditions so I don't see how they could complain if they were repatriated to a country whose beliefs and lifestyle they believe in? If they do complain then they are hypocrites.


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

scratch said:



			Yes some are born and bred 'British' but as stated by others, they have no affinity with this country or it's beliefs and traditions so I don't see how they could complain if they were repatriated to a country whose beliefs and lifestyle they believe in? If they do complain then they are hypocrites.
		
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How can you repatriate someone to a place they don't come from and have possibly never even been to? 

So the government turns round to any muslim state in the world and says 'Oi, you're having this lot' - yeah, that would work.


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## MegaSteve (May 23, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			How can you repatriate someone to a place they don't come from and have possibly never even been to? 

So the government turns round to any muslim state in the world and says 'Oi, you're having this lot' - yeah, that would work.
		
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Qatada would be 'warmly' welcomed elsewhere... So why is he still here?


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## bladeplayer (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			Before any Irish fellas get twitchy, just using a ridiculous example to illustrate the point.:thup:
		
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One thing you sure as hell dont need is a twitchy paddy ................... understand the context you were using it mate no panic


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## 19thagain (May 23, 2013)

My answer to this is a visual show of solidarity.

Let ALL the troops in the barracks go into the centre of London, in their uniforms in groups of two or three and, as they walk along the street, let everyone there present stand aside and applaud them as they pass!!

This show of appreciation by the public MUST be shown on every news summary, U Tube, etc for days to come.

This will allow the misguided to be aware that a couple of nut cases do not cause fear and indeed their actions only strengthen our resolve.


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## Birchy (May 23, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			As far as I am concerned there is no point to the British Army being in Afghanistan, I would have no desire to live under the Taliban regime; however, they were no threat to us what so ever.  Now if we were there destroying the poppy harvest I could see the point - that is a real and current threat, but we aren't.

The primary reason we went to war against Saddam (the second time) was supposedly because he had access to WMD and we needed to remove that threat - never found them did we?  I remember my wife being mobilised for service in Iraq in the spring of 2003; prior to her deployment I quizzed her as to whether she had been issued two new cannisters for her S10 respirator and a new Nuclear Biological Chemical suit (Standard practise on deployment when there is a NBC threat) - she hadn't.  Now doesn't that strike you as really odd?

I feel fortunate that I believed fully in every operational deployment I went on and felt that I was making a positive difference.

So Birchy, you can continue to believe that the powers that be are making decisions in our interest, but please please occasionally remove your head from the sand to take a breath.
		
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I will never have enough evidence in my hands to decide for certain whether we were right to do the above or not so until then i dont really have much choice but to trust the powers that be.

I agree the evidence certainly doesnt look good and we could of been there for all the wrong reasons but theres probably a lot more to it than we will ever know.

Whether these things are just and right or not are irrelevent in what im trying to say though. Theres no point in the army doing the above overseas whether just and correct or not if the issues like yesterday are being allowed to happen.


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## MetalMickie (May 23, 2013)

Birchy said:



			So your privvy to all threats against our national security are you? 

Thought not.
		
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Am I to take it that you,on the other hand, believe everything the authorities want us to believe. e.g.Saddam's WMD and Afghanistan was the home of all terrorism.  

Hope not.


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## scratch (May 23, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			How can you repatriate someone to a place they don't come from and have possibly never even been to? 

So the government turns round to any muslim state in the world and says 'Oi, you're having this lot' - yeah, that would work.
		
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Well it seems to me that these people clearly have no desire to be 'British' so let them choose a country that they do want to live in. If they object they then have to ask themselves why they are committing atrocities against their fellow countrymen.


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## Birchy (May 23, 2013)

MetalMickie said:



			Am I to take it that you,on the other hand, believe everything the authorities want us to believe. e.g.Saddam's WMD and Afghanistan was the home of all terrorism.  

Hope not.
		
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No i dont but until i see all the evidence (never happen) its hard to have a definative judgement. Everybody has theories and bits of stories but until you see all the facts in front of you i dont believe we could ever judge it right or wrong.

But once again as per my other posts its all pointless either way if we are going to let this scum do this to us on our own soil.


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

scratch said:



			Well it seems to me that these people clearly have no desire to be 'British' so let them choose a country that they do want to live in. If they object they then have to ask themselves why they are committing atrocities against their fellow countrymen.
		
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That sounds terrific - can you arrange for me to be sent to St Lucia please? :thup:


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## USER1999 (May 23, 2013)

The comments on the guardian's web site make interesting reading. The usual apologists out in force.


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## scratch (May 23, 2013)

stevie_r said:



			That sounds terrific - can you arrange for me to be sent to St Lucia please? :thup:
		
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OK....but you must promise to embrace the lifestyle!!


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## Hacker Khan (May 23, 2013)

therod said:



			What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs. 

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005. 

The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic. 

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain
		
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I find your sensible, considered and well argued response pathetic.  As everyone know you should base you response on prejudice, bigotry, ignorance, knee jerk reactions with no thought to the long term consequences and most importantly what you read in The Daily Mail.


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## Five&One (May 23, 2013)

Having seen the film clip last night and heard the culprit talking I found my self thinking "terrorist attack - really ?" Doesn't anyone else have the thought that is this simply two psychopathic individuals with no control or perspective or care for consequence who were happy to gratuitously brutalise and behead a victim who may or may not have been selected in advance and then justify the whole thing on some sense of religious injustice. Sorry if its in any way offensive but the bloke came across as being thick as mince and I doubt if he'd know where Pakistan, Somalia and Afghanistan where, far less have a detailed theological objection concerning global oppression of Islam by the Zionist western super powers. To me he's your bog standard highly dangerous killer who kills for the joy and thrill of killing and chants 'Allaha Akbar' as some kind of sick justification and mask for his psychopathy.

Another thing. I know from experience of firearms training that no one who is firearms trained would EVER shoot just to wound or disable a target. As someone who has undergone firearms training and carried firearms in a previous career, unless the engagement rules have changed recently failing to kill the targets from the distance they were shot from was either horrendously bad shooting or a deliberate but highly risky strategy to disable the targets but take them alive. Doing that, in my experience would never be encouraged (old school perhaps). It actually takes a fantastic shot to guarantee immediate immobilisation of a target but not death, in fact you'd use  a taser for that long before your use a Gloch pistol. Unless the whole policy has changed very recently they should both be stone dead and the shooter, although publicly being praised will probably privately be torn up for toilet paper for failing to kill targets that close and that dangerous.


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

scratch said:



			OK....but you must promise to embrace the lifestyle!!  

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Oh I would


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

@five&one - Bit harsh I think mate, although I haven't read any reports or accounts of the shooting I'm pretty sure they would have been aiming at the centre of mass.  
A low velocity weapon (9mm?) I would presume in order to minimise the risk of collateral damage, we don't know the range, adrenaline pumping etc.  Pretty unlikely to kill someone on the spot with a shot from a pistol unless you hit the heart or one of the major vessels serving it I would have thought.


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## jimbob.someroo (May 23, 2013)

Five&One said:



			Having seen the film clip last night and heard the culprit talking I found my self thinking "terrorist attack - really ?" Doesn't anyone else have the thought that is this simply two psychopathic individuals with no control or perspective or care for consequence who were happy to gratuitously brutalise and behead a victim who may or may not have been selected in advance and then justify the whole thing on some sense of religious injustice.
		
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Been biting my tongue on getting involved in this thread, despite following it from t'start but wanted to echo this thought really.

There's murders every day from people of all different races and religions. I think it's fair to say that in most cases the killers and victims have different opinions on things, whether that's religion or some other reason. I think it's far too easy to lump it all in with terrorism and use it to look and condemn a wider group of people.

There was a murder of a Pakistani man in Birmingham at the start of the month. A few similarities in the fact it was racially motivated and a viscous stabbing / knifing out on the street. There's been hardly any press coverage of that - yet had it been the other way round, I'm sure we'd have heard plenty more. - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/02/birmingham-murder-racially-motivated-police

I'm not for one minute excusing the murderers in either case or saying one is worse than the other, but this has been so hyped up by the media because of the 'terrorist' label associated and enabled a nationwide scare mongering of anyone who believes in a different faith, that it's getting out of control. This is bread and butter for news outlets like the Daily Mail / Express / Times / Sun who will have made more money today than they will have all year (so much for sticking it to Murdoch hey?!)

The blokes will go to prison in England for a long time, and if they ever get out, they're not going to be 'sent back to where they're from' as people have quite rightly pointed out, that'd be South London. This was two horrendous blokes, with a twisted warped take on religion. These sorts of people exist in all countries and all religions (look at the Christian bloke in Norway that killed all the school kids) and are unfortunate part of life. What events like this shouldn't do, is typecast entire groups of people, based on the ridiculous views of these ridiculous individuals.


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## bladeplayer (May 23, 2013)

Five&One said:



			.

Another thing. I know from experience of firearms training that no one who is firearms trained would EVER shoot just to wound or disable a target. As someone who has undergone firearms training and carried firearms in a previous career, unless the engagement rules have changed recently failing to kill the targets from the distance they were shot from was either horrendously bad shooting or a deliberate but highly risky strategy to disable the targets but take them alive. Doing that, in my experience would never be encouraged (old school perhaps). It actually takes a fantastic shot to guarantee immediate immobilisation of a target but not death, in fact you'd use  a taser for that long before your use a Gloch pistol. Unless the whole policy has changed very recently they should both be stone dead and the shooter, although publicly being praised will probably privately be torn up for toilet paper for failing to kill targets that close and that dangerous.
		
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No offence here mate and i bow to your superior knowledge in the case but are you telling us that Armed British police would have a shoot to kill policy ? I would be amazed if this was the case  .. 

is it not minimum force deemed necessary  ??


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## MetalMickie (May 23, 2013)

Birchy said:



			No i dont but until i see all the evidence (never happen) its hard to have a definative judgement. Everybody has theories and bits of stories but until you see all the facts in front of you i dont believe we could ever judge it right or wrong.

But once again as per my other posts its all pointless either way if we are going to let this scum do this to us on our own soil.
		
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I agree with much of what you say but what concerns me is that the actions of successive UK governments may have served as recruitment propaganda for the terrorist organisations.

*N.B.* This in no way is intended to justify or excuse these evil b******.


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## stevie_r (May 23, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			No offence here mate and i bow to your superior knowledge in the case but are you telling us that Armed British police would have a shoot to kill policy ? I would be amazed if this was the case  .. 

is it not minimum force deemed necessary  ??
		
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You don't shoot to wound, it's difficult to do.  A firearm is a last resort.


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## G1BB0 (May 23, 2013)

behead them both, put them on display outside the tower of London!

ok a bit OTT but if we dont make examples of individuals like these 2 then sorry we are on a slippery slope. Prison will probably cost more than my lifetime tax contribution.... yeah thats right isnt it?

very angry atm but then so are a lot of people the world over. The world is knackered simples, maybe we need Klaatu to pay a visit


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## MetalMickie (May 23, 2013)

There was a murder of a Pakistani man in Birmingham at the start of the month.
		
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A word of caution; I don't believe that the motive for this murder has yet been established as no one has yet been arrested & charged. There is a suspicion that there may be a racial motive.


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## G1BB0 (May 23, 2013)

very good post MM

grr you edited the original one


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## Five&One (May 23, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			No offence here mate and i bow to your superior knowledge in the case but are you telling us that Armed British police would have a shoot to kill policy ? I would be amazed if this was the case  .. 

is it not minimum force deemed necessary  ??
		
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"Shoot to kill" is an emotive phrase born in N.Ireland during the troubles when the SAS and other elite army units were seeking out known terrorists, entrapping them and essentially killing them in cold blood as opposed to arresting them.

That's a whole different thing from being faced with a situation where there is an immediate threat to life that can only be averted by lethal force. In that circumstance you shoot to kill, every time. If you don't shoot to kill you are taking one hell of a risk allowing a dangerous life threatening target to continue to be mobile. You cannot shoot to immobilise,it's virtually impossible to get it right. Shooting to kill at that distance is relatively straightforward unless there was something or someone else close to the line of fire, which again can very quickly be eradicated by changing position. taking two steps to the left or right at that distance would change the entire line of fire and the perspective of the shot. Perhaps she (I understand it was a female officer ) thought she didn't have time to re position and take the deadly shot, doubly difficult considering she had two lethally dangerous targets to try and eliminate immediately.


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## jimbob.someroo (May 23, 2013)

MetalMickie said:



			A word of caution; I don't believe that the motive for this murder has yet been established as no one has yet been arrested & charged. There is a suspicion that there may be a racial motive.
		
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Which is fair, but it is most likely a racially motivated attack as the police don't often hint that it is without proof.

Either way there's been countless non-white victims over the past few years (as there has been white victims). There was the Indian student in Manchester, Anuj Bidve and countless previous to that - involving many different backgrounds (black/white/indian/christian/muslim etc).

I just think at times the media are to quick to lump it in with terrorism, which in turn causes nationwide outrage; instead of looking at, and chastising, the individuals responsible.


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## Blue in Munich (May 23, 2013)

Five&One said:



			Another thing. I know from experience of firearms training that no one who is firearms trained would EVER shoot just to wound or disable a target. As someone who has undergone firearms training and carried firearms in a previous career, unless the engagement rules have changed recently failing to kill the targets from the distance they were shot from was either horrendously bad shooting or a deliberate but highly risky strategy to disable the targets but take them alive. Doing that, in my experience would never be encouraged (old school perhaps). It actually takes a fantastic shot to guarantee immediate immobilisation of a target but not death, in fact you'd use  a taser for that long before your use a Gloch pistol. Unless the whole policy has changed very recently they should both be stone dead and the shooter, although publicly being praised will probably privately be torn up for toilet paper for failing to kill targets that close and that dangerous.
		
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Was your experience ex-Army or ex-Police?  Because I think you'll find the underlying policies between the two are vastly different.


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## MegaSteve (May 23, 2013)

jimbob.someroo said:



			Which is fair, but it is most likely a racially motivated attack as the police don't often hint that it is without proof.

Either way there's been countless non-white victims over the past few years (as there has been white victims). There was the Indian student in Manchester, Anuj Bidve and countless previous to that - involving many different backgrounds (black/white/indian/christian/muslim etc).

I just think at times the media are to quick to lump it in with terrorism, which in turn causes nationwide outrage; instead of looking at, and chastising, the individuals responsible.
		
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Don't believe the colour of the victim's skin, in London, has anything to do with him being targeted... It would seem the reason that led to him being targeted was that he was a British serviceman...


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## jimbob.someroo (May 23, 2013)

MegaSteve said:



			Don't believe the colour of the victim's skin, in London, has anything to do with him being targeted... It would seem the reason that led to him being targeted was that he was a British serviceman...
		
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Which is true, but it is the colour of the murderers skin and his beliefs which had classed it as a terrorist attack. The white bloke in Manchester killing the Indian guy because he didn't want Indian people in Manchester is an equally preposterous view but as a nation we didn't jump on it quite so heavily.

By jumping on it in this manner, we end up with the inevitable hatred for everyone remotely associated with the same religion as the murderers which IMO isn't right.


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## Five&One (May 23, 2013)

Blue in Munich said:



			Was your experience ex-Army or ex-Police?  Because I think you'll find the underlying policies between the two are vastly different.
		
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Not really wanting to go into that too deeply because it attracts unwanted attention. The army generally operate under 'rules of engagement' and hardly ever in a civilian environment since the peace process. Police response policies are built around the doctrine of 'reasonable force' although there were guidelines that have to be followed and a standard you had to achieve, basically the response in a lethal situation is entirely the responsibility of the individual officer. Whilst I have had the training and carried firearms (way back when)I have never been in a situation where I had to take a life and death decision to pull or not pull the trigger. That is an off the radar high pressure place to put yourself as you can probably imagine.


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## JustOne (May 23, 2013)

Five&One said:



			Perhaps she (I understand it was a female officer ) thought she didn't have time to re position and take the deadly shot, doubly difficult considering she had two lethally dangerous targets to try and eliminate immediately.
		
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Male or female they did a great job. Made a decision and did the deed. Two in the morgue would have been preferable, but even so... it wasn't a decision to take lightly... hats off to someone with some balls. Hopefully there won't be recriminations.

I do believe the police policy is shoot to kill (as you say), I'm sure they would have had more bullets if they had remained a threat.


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## Fish (May 24, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Male or female they did a great job. Made a decision and did the deed. Two in the morgue would have been preferable, but even so... it wasn't a decision to take lightly... hats off to someone with some balls. Hopefully there won't be recriminations.

I do believe the police policy is shoot to kill (as you say), I'm sure they would have had more bullets if they had remained a threat.
		
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The decision would have been quite an easy one TBH and with information, although fragmented, known to them prior to arriving at the scene, they would have been mindset to some degree that an exchange of fire was imminent.

There is a similarity between HM Forces and civilian officers _rules of engagement_, the common denominator in this would have been, there was an immediate threat where an individual or more who was about to course, or had coursed, or could course more loss of life and was not surrendering their (visible) weapons and were still acting in an uncontrolled and aggressive manner. A short warning would be given, more a case of announcing yourself and then its 2 shots to the "mass", that being the torso. At less than 50m this should be affective to bring the target down, remove and make safe any weapons. It is very negligible that it will become a lethal shot/s.  You do not shoot to wound, ie legs or arms and how ever skilled, there is no head shot. There is no walking up to the body and popping another couple into them either ala "Ultimate Force"!

There is no "shoot to kill" policy in _any_ engagement ruling and I have been attached to civilian services possibly more recent than Five&One and I have been in situations within both agencies, but, using a 9mm at anything greater than 30m and under such conditions with adrenalin pumping, is very much a hard shot getting 2 to the mass to bring them down and I commend the female officer, especially if she took both men down with 2 shots to both adjusting her position and no doubt with them moving also and all with the public in view. That's a very professional engagement. 

A higher velocity round cannot be used in such circumstances as a miss or even a shot straight through the threats body could travel on and still take out innocent people nearby. I have seen them (police) carry Hecklers or similar before, and may still do so but, there are various velocity's (models) which again have an effective range of between 70 and over 300m's which gives you more control and assurance that you'll bring your threat down quickly and effectively.

My only criticism of watching the situation when there were "normal" police on hand for some time waiting for the armed response team was, that they didn't cordon off properly and get the general public away and around blind corners isolating the area better, this removes the miss shot or through shot from harming anyone not associated to the situation directly behind your targets.

All in all, it was professionally brought to a close but, had the 2 murderers gone on more of a rampage, I was slightly concerned at the time they were allowed to roam and parade themselves, that time could have led to more loss of lives. It may be worth considering a reaction team that could be despatched from a barracks guard room for incidents in the immediate vicinity?  

The victim was a soft serviceman target, the murderer was a known activist and self proclaimed preacher, it was a political statement from the murderer which I won't call a terrorist but by his own statement to the camera, his intention and message was clear and the victim was chosen IMO.


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## Liverbirdie (May 24, 2013)

Five&One said:



			Not really wanting to go into that too deeply because it attracts unwanted attention. The army generally operate under 'rules of engagement' and hardly ever in a civilian environment since the peace process. Police response policies are built around the doctrine of 'reasonable force' although there were guidelines that have to be followed and a standard you had to achieve, basically the response in a lethal situation is entirely the responsibility of the individual officer. Whilst I have had the training and carried firearms (way back when)I have never been in a situation where I had to take a life and death decision to pull or not pull the trigger. That is an off the radar high pressure place to put yourself as you can probably imagine.
		
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5+1=6       MI6?      Do I win a prize?


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## Five&One (May 24, 2013)

Liverbirdie said:



			5+1=6       MI6?      Do I win a prize?
		
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Yes I am a spy but I am normally really good at keeping it a secret


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## Fish (May 24, 2013)

Five&One said:



			Yes I am a spy but I am normally really good at keeping it a secret
		
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:rofl:

I was so waiting for that :thup:


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## Liverbirdie (May 24, 2013)

Fish said:



			:rofl:

I was so waiting for that :thup:
		
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Me too, but the good ones are brazen and like to give a little clue.


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## Five&One (May 24, 2013)

Liverbirdie said:



			Me too, but the good ones are brazen and like to give a little clue.

Click to expand...

Or its a double bluff. I have told you to your face that I am a spy, therefore you think that I couldn't possibly be one or I wouldn't have told you. That's what your supposed to think. Now you haven't got a clue whether I am a spy or not. That's top level MI6 training for you.


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## JustOne (May 24, 2013)

Five&One said:



			Or its a double bluff. I have told you to your face that I am a spy, therefore you think that I couldn't possibly be one or I wouldn't have told you. That's what your supposed to think. Now you haven't got a clue whether I am a spy or not. That's top level MI6 training for you.
		
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No spies live in Edinburgh.... unless that's a sneaky plan of yours to hide your real location... hang on.... there was just a noise from upstairs.......... are you upstairs with my missus??????


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## Birchy (May 24, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22658979

Wonder what this is all about? Could of been triggered by recent events?


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## Fish (May 24, 2013)

Just seen a new clip of the main murderer running at the police car.  With no less than 2 shots at him at that range, he must be the most serious injured of the 2 and I'm surprised he's alive TBH, he may have been shot more as I'm sure I heard a further 2 shots after he dropped the knife in the road whilst in full flight and after the first 2 shots landing but got close enough for another burst to be made.


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## Fish (May 24, 2013)

Birchy said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22658979

Wonder what this is all about? Could of been triggered by recent events?
		
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Well you don't try to get into the cabin "a few times" just to say hello do you, this was a serious threat even though no weapons were found or used to overcome the plane and.......... 

Is this the start of a new wave of threats from British National sleepers with parents who originate from countries we are occupying or who sympathise with those countries?


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## jimbob.someroo (May 24, 2013)

Just seen this shared on t'internet. Probably the most sense and balance I've heard from anyone about the whole thing - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RU9QBX4U9qE


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## Slime (May 24, 2013)

Wow, so much common sense in less than eight minutes. 
We need more people like him.

*Slime*.


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## JustOne (May 24, 2013)

jimbob.someroo said:



			Just seen this shared on t'internet. Probably the most sense and balance I've heard from anyone about the whole thing - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RU9QBX4U9qE

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I'm not so sure. I was discussing this thread with a friend and this is how part of the conversation went...


Here's a protest march by Muslims pertaining to a Muslim woman who was arrested because her *husband had set off a bomb* in Stockholm in 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo

Now what kind of protest march would we expect to see by the Muslim community *if a Muslim boy just had his head hacked off in a local high street by a couple of Christians*?????

Should we agree that they'd just let it pass and we wouldn't see any protest at all? or do we think that it would be more of an issue?

If we accept that it _might_ be more of an issue then where's the protest marches by those that support our Christian soldier?

I don't know what's right or wrong here.... should it just pass? Is that what we do?


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## jimbob.someroo (May 25, 2013)

JustOne said:



			If we accept that it _might_ be more of an issue then where's the protest marches by those that support our Christian soldier?

I don't know what's right or wrong here.... should it just pass? Is that what we do?
		
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I'm not disagreeing with you here and can see your point - but there was a march/protest of sorts, albeit by the EDL. In my (youngish) lifetime, we've never really had that many marches by Christians, it just doesn't seem the done thing? We have marches by trade unions and gay rights activists but it just doesn't seem that Christian's choose to protest in that manner. Whats more, I've not seen anything which said that the poor lad was actually a Christian. A large proportion of us have no real strong faith and that could also be why we've not heard much from Christian groups on this particular case.

That said, I'm sure there'll be thousands lining the street for the funeral and rightly so.


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## MegaSteve (May 25, 2013)

jimbob.someroo said:



			we've never really had that many marches by Christians, it just doesn't seem the done thing? We have marches by trade unions and gay rights activists but it just doesn't seem that Christian's choose to protest in that manner.
		
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I would say CND wouldn't have got started without the support of 'christian' leaders here in the UK... Many on the early marchers would've been there because of their strong 'christian' beliefs...


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## Yer Maw (May 25, 2013)

Other than the fact that the attack was uncalled for and psychotic, my other major gripe was that the BBC felt the need to show the footage on the six o clock news.  It was wholly inappropriate and sensationalist, did nothing other than gives these nut jobs a platform and the publicity they seek.  To show the young lad laying dead in the street made me livid as it was someone's son, and had only just happened!  The BBC should hang their heads in shame and I actually submitted a complaint battling my way through their lengthy 'lets try to put people off complaining' process.   I urge you all to do the same.

None of us needed to see that and what a damn shame for the lads family.


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## Iaing (May 25, 2013)

I'd say any marches should be against radicalism in any form and not for, or against, any particular religion.


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## Whee (May 25, 2013)

I find it very sad that many people's first reaction when witnessing that event, was to grab their mobile phone and film the event. That man could have been over powered and restrained until police arrived.

I think the EDL are a bunch of idiots, and their behaviour should warrant an arrest - much the same as they are asking for those that preach hatred against our nation and our troops. Two wrongs, simply do not make a right.

You can't win a war against extremism, with extremism. By behaving in the manner the EDL did, all we have given to those watching from afar, the required propoganda to recruit their next bunch of youngsters. 

I am very fearful of where, and how, this will all come to a head. Years of tension, a vicious undercurrent of discontent, and morons with loud voices on both sides.


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## MegaSteve (May 25, 2013)

Yer Maw said:



			Other than the fact that the attack was uncalled for and psychotic, my other major gripe was that the BBC felt the need to show the footage on the six o clock news.  It was wholly inappropriate and sensationalist, did nothing other than gives these nut jobs a platform and the publicity they seek.  To show the young lad laying dead in the street made me livid as it was someone's son, and had only just happened!  The BBC should hang their heads in shame and I actually submitted a complaint battling my way through their lengthy 'lets try to put people off complaining' process.   I urge you all to do the same.

None of us needed to see that and what a damn shame for the lads family.
		
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Absolutely 100% in agreement...

Herself went through the lengthy process yesterday to register our thoughts with the BBC...


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## SocketRocket (May 26, 2013)

AuburnWarrior said:



			No, you're right.  Absolutely every horrible thing that has ever happened in this country has been done by a foreigner or by someone with dark skin or by someone who wasn't a Christian.

Dr Harold Shipman - where was he from?
Ian Huntley - where was he from?
Myra Hindley - where was she from?
Fred West - where was he from?
		
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So you didn't answer my question. So lets accept you have never been to the USA and have no experience of life there.

I explained my opinion on national culture and you seem want to reply by making a list of British convicted psychopaths as examples of normal British behaviour.    I never mentioned religion either but you seem to have dragged this into your reply to me.

Is it possible for you to actually read and digest my posts and spend a little time considering your response before putting digit to keyboard?


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## G1BB0 (May 26, 2013)

Whee said:



			I find it very sad that many people's first reaction when witnessing that event, was to grab their mobile phone and film the event. That man could have been over powered and restrained until police arrived.
		
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would you try and intervene and restrain a nutter with a whacking great knife who has already hacked someone up?


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## Imurg (May 26, 2013)

G1BB0 said:



			would you try and intervene and restrain a nutter with a whacking great knife who has already hacked someone up?
		
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Some did.

Not sure I would have but some Scandinavian Lass confronted them....
Brave and/or stupid.....


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## SocketRocket (May 27, 2013)

He's Offended!

[video=youtube;zwnD5Yo65Zo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwnD5Yo65Zo[/video]


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## rosecott (May 27, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			He's Offended!

[video=youtube;zwnD5Yo65Zo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwnD5Yo65Zo[/video]
		
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Maybe I'm wrong but didn't your unedited original post say that you were offended?


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## SocketRocket (May 27, 2013)

rosecott said:



			Maybe I'm wrong but didn't your unedited original post say that you were offended?
		
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Did it?    Maybe it did but did that offend you?


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## rosecott (May 27, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Did it?    Maybe it did but did that offend you?
		
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No.


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## SocketRocket (May 27, 2013)

rosecott said:



			No.
		
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Good


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 27, 2013)

Oh dear.  Watching the news and - not for the first time - the British public are getting rather carried away and are emoting over the death of someone they didn't know - to wit a Woolwich 'shrine' and 'avenue of flowers' are being created as an 'endless' stream of 'well-wishers' visit the location of the lads murder.  

Please. Enough. Desist. Not necessary and in truth all rather a bit more about self and not really about the lad.  If you care that much, and even if you don't, please just go to a church and say a prayer for him to your own god, or go sit in a field surrounded by the beauty of nature and thank your higher power, whatever that is, for the life you and your loved ones have - and give thanks for the life of Lee Rigby.  But please - cut out this 'must be part of self-righteous eventism'.


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## stevie_r (May 28, 2013)

I see H4H have told the EDL don't want any donations from them - nor indeed from any political party.  EDL and SDL protests will be ramped up and more frequent now - football season is over


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## SocketRocket (May 28, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Oh dear.  Watching the news and - not for the first time - the British public are getting rather carried away and are emoting over the death of someone they didn't know - to wit a Woolwich 'shrine' and 'avenue of flowers' are being created as an 'endless' stream of 'well-wishers' visit the location of the lads murder.  

Please. Enough. Desist. Not necessary and in truth all rather a bit more about self and not really about the lad.  If you care that much, and even if you don't, please just go to a church and say a prayer for him to your own god, or go sit in a field surrounded by the beauty of nature and thank your higher power, whatever that is, for the life you and your loved ones have - and give thanks for the life of Lee Rigby.  But please - cut out this 'must be part of self-righteous eventism'.
		
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Many people feel that they need to share a grief that cannot be expressed personally, they need to share their feelings such that it expresses a collective disgust for the actions of these low life fanatics.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 28, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Many people feel that they need to share a grief that cannot be expressed personally, they need to share their feelings such that it expresses a collective disgust for the actions of these low life fanatics.
		
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Maybe - but grieving over somone you don't know? and sharing your 'grief' with folks you don't know?  I fully understand that we can all be very angry and sad about this and it is upsetting - but grief...?

So I fully understand what you say - but I'm afraid that I don't buy it.  Yet again a public event is being made of a personal and family tragedy and that to me is rather tasteless and selfish.  But I am not surprised - just rather saddened - this 'outpouring' being to my mind, and I accept may in the minoriyt on this, just another symptom of the 'me' society (if there can be such a thing) that many of us choose to inhabit these days.


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## G1BB0 (May 28, 2013)

I think it sums up the general feeling across the country so any event like this is going to bring on a mass display of public emotion.

I do feel the event as shocking as it was has been overplayed by the media. For me its not so much a terrorist attack but more a mindless murder by 2 nutters. Unfortunately there are far too many these days


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## Whee (May 28, 2013)

G1BB0 said:



			would you try and intervene and restrain a nutter with a whacking great knife who has already hacked someone up?
		
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It's weird mate. As the event played out, standing there watching was the sensible thing to do, no denying that.

The 2 idiots floated around the scene and didn't seem intent on causing anybody else any harm. I'm just surprised that there wasn't a couple of have a go hero types (especially when you consider the location) who tried to get involved before it became apparent that these lunatics were going to stop and wait.


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## SocketRocket (May 28, 2013)

G1BB0 said:



			I think it sums up the general feeling across the country so any event like this is going to bring on a mass display of public emotion.

I do feel the event as shocking as it was has been overplayed by the media. For me its not so much a terrorist attack but more a mindless murder by 2 nutters. Unfortunately there are far too many these days 

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Stabbing a young soldier to death and decapitating him in the street in broad daylight is a terrorist attack.  If it's not then I shudder to think what is.

Lets be clear what they are as well.  They are not a pair of your 'run of the mill nutters', they are Muslim extremests in our country who are hell bent on using terror for their political and religious beliefs.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 28, 2013)

G1BB0 said:



			I think it sums up the general feeling across the country so any event like this is going to bring on a mass display of public emotion
		
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All depends upon what you are referring to.  I agree that across the country the general feeling is one of horror and shock, and sympathy for the lad's family and friends.   The need or urge to make a 'big thing' of it on the ground as in 'shrine' and public grief - is not a need or feeling I share.  But maybe that's just me.  We the public and they the politicians don't need emotion at the moment - we need calmness and clarity of thought and purpose.  These and too much emoting and emotion are not happy bedfellows.


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## Whee (May 28, 2013)

SocketRocket said:



			Stabbing a young soldier to death and decapitating him in the street in broad daylight is a terrorist attack.  If it's not then I shudder to think what is.

Lets be clear what they are as well.  They are not a pair of your 'run of the mill nutters', they are Muslim extremests in our country who are hell bent on using terror for their political and religious beliefs.
		
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I think it lies somewhere between both of your labels of it. It's not an act of terror, but it's more than a mindless murder.

Terrorist attacks are bigger scale, as sad as it is to categorise these events.

This was a fairly calculated attack, based on political and radicalised religious beliefs.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 28, 2013)

Whee said:



			I think it lies somewhere between both of your labels of it. It's not an act of terror, but it's more than a mindless murder.

Terrorist attacks are bigger scale, as sad as it is to categorise these events.

This was a fairly calculated attack, based on political and radicalised religious beliefs.
		
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Actually I think that it is fair to label this as a terrorist attack (though in truth why do we actually need a label).  In the bad old NI IRA days, murders of individual off-duty soldiers were terrorist attacks/murders - often done by 'loose cannon' from the fringes of such as the IRA.  Let's not get too hung up about semantics though, as that does tend to get in the way of understanding and getting to the root of what these sort of incidents are about.


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