# Hitting the draw and ball still goes straight??



## jgozza (Feb 20, 2012)

I set up with the club pointing at the target and aiming my body to the right but when hitting on my body line the ball goes straight??

Has anyone had this trouble before ??


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## USER1999 (Feb 20, 2012)

Nooo!

Here we go again.

The ball will go where the club face points.

I'm guessing that even though you think you are standing closed, either you aren't, or, you are coming over the top, and the swing path comes out pretty straight.


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 20, 2012)

jgozza said:



			the ball goes straight
		
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Could you narrow down where straight is? Straight at the target, straight along the line of your feet?

As Murph, says, the way of hitting a draw you are describing is based upon teaching of the old ball flight laws, which suggested that the initial direction of a golf ball would follow the direction of the swingpath and that the relative angle of theclub face would impart any resulting spin.

Search on this forum for new ball flight laws, and read one of many threads (usually started by Justone  ). In a nutshell, modern technology has allowed the ball flight law to have been revisited... and it turns out that the ball takes off in the direction of the clubface , with spin infleunced by the direction of the swing relative to the club face. IE, the opposite idea to what used to be taught.

Have a read around and hopefully it'll help you to understand and hit a draw better. Good luck!


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## Region3 (Feb 20, 2012)

Regardless of old or new ball flight laws, to get a draw the face must be pointing to the left (RH golfer) of the swing path at impact.

If the ball is flying straight then the swing path and club face are aligned together.

If the ball is going on the line of your feet then you have unknowingly opened the face during your swing.
If the ball is going straight to your target then you are swinging out to in relative to your feet line.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 20, 2012)

Region3 said:



			Regardless of old or new ball flight laws, to get a draw the face must be pointing to the left (RH golfer) of the swing path at impact.

If the ball is flying straight then the swing path and club face are aligned together.

If the ball is going on the line of your feet then you have unknowingly opened the face during your swing.
If the ball is going straight to your target then you are swinging out to in relative to your feet line.
		
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Bloody hell Gaz you should be a pro


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## bobmac (Feb 20, 2012)

pokerjoke said:



			Bloody hell Gaz you should be a pro
		
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Nah, the pros don't know the ball flight laws


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## DaveM (Feb 20, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Nah, the pros don't know the ball flight laws 

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Thought that was just the old ones. They dont do S&T either:rofl: .


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## Region3 (Feb 20, 2012)

pokerjoke said:



			Bloody hell Gaz you should be a pro
		
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bobmac said:



			Nah, the pros don't know the ball flight laws  

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It's quite odd the way there are so many clips on YouTube and the like of the famous touring pro's explaining it wrongly. Obviously since they can hit the shots they want to they must be doing it right.

I assume the likes of Donald, Faldo, Rose etc wouldn't have taken the PGA exams that teaching pro's do,
so teaching pro's will be able to explain the right way.


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## MadAdey (Feb 21, 2012)

I have had all of this explained to me recently on here. If you set up with your body right of the target, clubhead square to the target in theory it will move right to left. But it will start at the target then move left, rather than starting right and moving back towards the target. But if you are swinging out to in then you are not going to ge the draw you thin you should. As the new ball flight laws are all to do about the the direction of swing path and the angle of the clubface in relation to the swing path.


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## MadAdey (Feb 21, 2012)

I have had all of this explained to me recently on here. If you set up with your body right of the target, clubhead square to the target in theory it will move right to left. But it will start at the target then move left, rather than starting right and moving back towards the target. But if you are swinging out to in then you are not going to get the draw you think you should. As the new ball flight laws are all to do about the the direction of swing path and the angle of the clubface in relation to the swing path.


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## Alex1975 (Feb 21, 2012)

http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/ballflight.htm


Ball flight laws above... its full on so be aware. The bit I have copied below is the bit you want I think...



Image 1 shows the clubface orientation and clubhead path that a 
golfer would likely adopt if he was indoctrinated by the "old" ball flight laws 
- the clubface (and lie angle tool) would be directed along the ball-target line 
and the clubhead path would be in-to-out through the impact zone. To draw a ball 
towards a target that is along the ball-target line, a golfer would be 
instructed to aim his clubface at the target (target point "somewhere" along the 
ball-target line where he wanted the ball to end) and he would then be 
instructed to swing his clubhead in-to-out to produce draw spin. However, that 
combination-choice would not produce his desired result! The ball would actually 
start just to the right of the ball-target line, and then draw more leftwards 
(to the left-of-the-target) due to the presence of draw spin (due to the fact 
that the clubface is closed to the clubhead path). 
To hit a controlled push-draw shot, where the ball 
starts off to the right and then draws back to the ball-target line (back to the 
center) later in its ball flight, a golfer needs to choose a clubhead path that 
is to the right-of-the ball-target line, and a clubface orientation that is also 
to the right-of-the-ball-target line, but where the clubface is slightly closed 
to the clubhead path - see image 2.  Note that the ball starts off to the right 
(85% in the direction of the clubface orientation relative to the clubhead path) 
and draws back to the center due to the presence of draw spin (due to the fact 
that the clubface is closed relative to the clubhead path - even though it is 
open relative to the ball-target line). A good combination would be a clubhead 
path that is 6 degrees right-of-the-ball-target line, and a clubface orientation 
that is 3 degrees right-of-the-ball-target line (50% of the clubhead path). The 
same principle would apply to a pull-fade shot, where the clubhead path should 
be approximately 6 degrees left-of-the ball-target line, and the clubface 
orientation approximately 3 degrees closed to the ball-target line. That 
combination would produce a ball flight where the ball starts off just to the 
left-of the ball-target line, and fades back to the center (ball-target line) 
later in its ball flight.​


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## bobmac (Feb 21, 2012)

Or...


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## Alex1975 (Feb 21, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Or...






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I was just thinking I had some understanding of this, is your illustration not showing a fade? the swing path seems out to in?


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## JustOne (Feb 21, 2012)

Yes in Bob's example the ball would be moving from left to right (fade flight) and could potentially be a push-fade, pull-fade or even a slice depending on where the person was actually line up.

(he has exaggerated the angles to make it easier to understand, no one alive would have the face that open to the path.... apart from Smiffy perhaps)


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## bobmac (Feb 21, 2012)

Alex1975 said:



			I was just thinking I had some understanding of this, is your illustration not showing a fade? the swing path seems out to in?
		
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It is. It's just a bit simpler than reading pages of scientific data


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## jplkorea83 (Feb 21, 2012)

Wish I could face whichever way I wanted and be able to hit the ball straight


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## Alex1975 (Feb 21, 2012)

bobmac said:



			It is. It's just a bit simpler than reading pages of scientific data
		
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For sure but I just don't learn anything the easy way!! As a child I was told fire burns but I am sure I still checked.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2012)

Region3 said:



			It's quite odd the way there are so many clips on YouTube and the like of the famous touring pro's explaining it wrongly. Obviously since they can hit the shots they want to they must be doing it right.

I assume the likes of Donald, Faldo, Rose etc wouldn't have taken the PGA exams that teaching pro's do,
so teaching pro's will be able to explain the right way.
		
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Faldo was taught before the PGA adopted the new method.  Donald and Rose were taught in the USA where the old (wrong) laws are still taught.   As I have said a few times they dont actually do what they say.


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 21, 2012)

Still baffles me this that Pro's like Donald,Rose explain how to play a type of shot and then step up to the ball and execute it in a totally different manner. There is a video where Rose aims his club at the target in this case the flag then aims his shoulders,feet,hips to the right of the flag giving a closed stance he then swings along his feet,hip line and the ball start off to the right of the flag and draws into it landing a few feet away.Surely this under new laws should have started directly at the target and landed left of taget upon landing. Confused


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## JustOne (Feb 21, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Still baffles me this that Pro's like Donald,Rose explain how to play a type of shot and then step up to the ball and execute it in a totally different manner. There is a video where Rose aims his club at the target in this case the flag then aims his shoulders,feet,hips to the right of the flag giving a closed stance he then swings along his feet,hip line and the ball start off to the right of the flag and draws into it landing a few feet away.Surely this under new laws should have started directly at the target and landed left of taget upon landing. Confused

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Yeh, what happens is the clubface doesn't actually come into the ball square to the target at all, it comes in maybe 10Â° more open than he THINKS it does and subsequently starts the ball more to the right. You can SEE where the ball starts on his video... that is pretty much where the clubface is actually pointing at impact. :thup:

Poulter has a similar video to both Donald's and Rose's


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 21, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Yeh, what happens is the clubface doesn't actually come into the ball square to the target at all, it comes in maybe 10Â° more open than he THINKS it does and subsequently starts the ball more to the right. You can SEE where the ball starts on his video... that is pretty much where the clubface is actually pointing at impact. :thup:

Poulter has a similar video to both Donald's and Rose's
		
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Right I can understand that. What causes his clubface to open then is it the fact that he swinging along a closed stance that somehow causes it or is it something else. Need to know for sure so I can work on it myself as a draw has always been a problem shot for me. I always play a draw like Rose says in the vid I mentioned and have all kinds of results some go straight some go left and some go as planned just like Roses do in the vid some of the bad ones will also be down to my limited ability(15 HCP)


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## SocketRocket (Feb 21, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Right I can understand that. What causes his clubface to open then is it the fact that he swinging along a closed stance that somehow causes it or is it something else. Need to know for sure so I can work on it myself as a draw has always been a problem shot for me. I always play a draw like Rose says in the vid I mentioned and have all kinds of results some go straight some go left and some go as planned just like Roses do in the vid some of the bad ones will also be down to my limited ability(15 HCP)
		
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It's just feel. He has practiced so many times his brain knows subconciously where the clubface needs to be at impact.


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## CMAC (Feb 21, 2012)

and I think they actually play it slightly further back in their stance so the clubface hasn't 'squared up' to the target and is actually facing right at impact, so it starts right of target then draws back.


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 21, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			It's just feel. He has practiced so many times his brain knows subconciously where the clubface needs to be at impact.
		
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Obviously but it still seems a strange way to work to me. So the correct way to play a Draw under new law is to align clubface right of target and align Feet,Hips,Shoulders further Right. Is this the correct way:thup: or am I talking rubbish It's practice day tomorrow so need to know what is the correct method


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## JustOne (Feb 21, 2012)

In_The_Rough said:



			Right I can understand that. What causes his clubface to open then is it the fact that he swinging along a closed stance that somehow causes it or is it something else. Need to know for sure so I can work on it myself as a draw has always been a problem shot for me. I always play a draw like Rose says in the vid I mentioned and have all kinds of results some go straight some go left and some go as planned just like Roses do in the vid some of the bad ones will also be down to my limited ability(15 HCP)
		
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With your irons if you copy what they say to the letter but *have the clubface pointed at the right edge of the green* it should potentially improve your ball flight both in trajectory and soften your bad shots (higher flight and less hooky). It's still not the 'correct' way but it's definitely not as bad as the way they are teaching it.


^
^
Interestingly you should be able to hit your driver perfectly from this position I describe above *IF you are hitting UP on it*, just don't stand tooooooo closed to the target... maybe 5Â° at most and aim for the right half of the fairway with the clubface. :thup:

The reason the clubface opens in their case is because a) they move their weight forward which means the club doesn't have time to square b) they often move the ball back a little to encourage an in-to-out swing and subsequently the ball being back means again the clubface doesn't have time to square c) being closed (aimed right) with the ball back often takes the hands deeper on the backswing encouraging an in-to-out swingpath at impact. d) they have their hands FORWARDS at impact which encourages the clubface to have less loft but be more open (pointed right).. less loft is why the ball goes further with a draw :thup:


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## In_The_Rough (Feb 21, 2012)

Cheers will give it a go


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