# WHS Venues Away From Home Club



## 123* (Jan 24, 2021)

Hi all,

I am a member at a difficult course but it is a considerable distance away from my home. 

I will often play other ‘easier’ courses that are local to me as my friends are members there. Can I submit a general play score at a course away from my home one?

I believe Open comps are automatically added? Just not sure about casual games? 

Thanks.


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## clubchamp98 (Jan 24, 2021)

I think this is what the system was made for.
I am no expert but would say yes.
But your handicap will be lower on an “easier” course .
The table to set your handicap at the course you play should be by the tee or clubhouse.


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## Dibby (Jan 24, 2021)

So related to this, when you play away, who are you supposed to inform of your intention to put in a card, as you are supposed to pre register?

At your home course this is easy, most can just pop into the shop and tell the pro or front desk, and then enter the score on return of confirm the score was entered via app etc.. but at an away course noone would really care or police this.


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## rulefan (Jan 24, 2021)

Dibby said:



			So related to this, when you play away, who are you supposed to inform of your intention to put in a card, as you are supposed to pre register?

At your home course this is easy, most can just pop into the shop and tell the pro or front desk, and then enter the score on return of confirm the score was entered via app etc.. but at an away course noone would really care or police this.
		
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You must register your intent to return a score at the Away club before you play.
You may be able to register your score there depending on their software and availability of someone to record it. Otherwise you will have to return your (signed) card to your handicap sec for them to match the score with the entry via the WHS platform. As I understand it, it won't be processed by your Home club's system.

EG will be introducing an app soon where it can all be done on your phone. The constraints are that you must be on or very close to the Away club when you register and your marker must have a live CDH ID when you complete your round and return your score.


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## Dibby (Jan 24, 2021)

rulefan said:



			You must register your intent to return a score at the Away club before you play.
You may be able to register your score there depending on their software and availability of someone to record it. Otherwise you will have to return your (signed) card to your handicap sec for them to match the score with the entry via the WHS platform. As I understand it, it won't be processed by your Home club's system.

EG will be introducing an app soon where it can all be done on your phone. The constraints are that you must be on or very close to the Away club when you register and your marker must have a live CDH ID when you complete your round and return your score.
		
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So when the app comes, that makes it easy. As it stands now, how  do we register and who with? It seems ambiguous, in that the rule itself is clear that you must register, but how you go about doing that is not. 

Seems very open to abuse, even when the app comes.


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## Deleted member 3432 (Jan 24, 2021)

123* said:



			Hi all,

I am a member at a difficult course but it is a considerable distance away from my home.

I will often play other ‘easier’ courses that are local to me as my friends are members there. Can I submit a general play score at a course away from my home one?

I believe Open comps are automatically added? Just not sure about casual games?

Thanks.
		
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Its only difficult when its windy....

Oh, thats every day then


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## rulefan (Jan 24, 2021)

Dibby said:



			So when the app comes, that makes it easy. As it stands now, how  do we register and who with? It seems ambiguous, in that the rule itself is clear that you must register, but how you go about doing that is not.

Seems very open to abuse, even when the app comes.
		
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You must register with whoever the Away club has appointed to handle general play registrations. This will presumably the same person (eg club sec or pro) who deals with internal members' registration. As each club will have their own procedure it would be as well to check before you go. That club will cause the registration to be passed up to the WHS platform ready for the score to be processed after the round, either by an authorised person at the Away or Home club.

How do you see either being abused?


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## Dibby (Jan 24, 2021)

rulefan said:



			You must register with whoever the Away club has appointed to handle general play registrations. This will presumably the same person (eg club sec or pro) who deals with internal members' registration. As each club will have their own procedure it would be as well to check before you go. That club will cause the registration to be passed up to the WHS platform ready for the score to be processed after the round, either by an authorised person at the Away or Home club.

How do you see either being abused?
		
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With the app, you can go anywhere with a mate, register and enter what score you like. I realise this is true for any round, but at your home club in comps, people are generally known and you play with a lot of different people, so collusion becomes harder. Whereas being relatively anonymous at new courses, a graoup could easily collude. Even more so when nomads can have handicaps too.


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## Old Skier (Jan 24, 2021)

Dibby said:



			With the app, you can go anywhere with a mate, register and enter what score you like. I realise this is true for any round, but at your home club in comps, people are generally known and you play with a lot of different people, so collusion becomes harder. Whereas being relatively anonymous at new courses, a graoup could easily collude. Even more so when nomads can have handicaps too.
		
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This will all depend on how your club writes its procedures for casual cards. Our procedures are likely to state that as well as registering your intention to play a casual round at the away club you will also be required to email/inform the home club prior to play.


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## Dibby (Jan 24, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			This will all depend on how your club writes its procedures for casual cards. Our procedures are likely to state that as well as registering your intention to play a casual round at the away club you will also be required to email/inform the home club prior to play.
		
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Maybe I'm being harsh, it just feels like a worst of both worlds situation.

If you want rigorous procedure stick to the old way of comp rounds only, and if you want more cards, but at the risk of abuse go the US way where you can just enter rounds as and when. Instead we have a kind of halfway house.

Given that the future plans are to allow nomads to have handicaps, how would your clubs procedure handle that when it comes, there is no one to email.


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## Old Skier (Jan 24, 2021)

Dibby said:



			Maybe I'm being harsh, it just feels like a worst of both worlds situation.

If you want rigorous procedure stick to the old way of comp rounds only, and if you want more cards, but at the risk of abuse go the US way where you can just enter rounds as and when. Instead we have a kind of halfway house.

Given that the future plans are to allow nomads to have handicaps, how would your clubs procedure handle that when it comes, there is no one to email.
		
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We can only do what is required of us at club level, how EG will monitor and look after nomads is out of the control of clubs but we can write competition procedure on how we can manage nomads.


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## jim8flog (Jan 24, 2021)

I find this interesting as I do not know what the procedure will be at our club.

Late last year we did away with registering by signing in a book and went to either the IG app or using the PSI screen.


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## Old Skier (Jan 24, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			I find this interesting as I do not know what the procedure will be at our club.

Late last year we did away with registering by signing in a book and went to either the IG app or using the PSI screen.
		
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All casual rounds MUST be pre registered, how the club do it is up to them.


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## SammmeBee (Jan 24, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			All casual rounds MUST be pre registered, how the club do it is up to them.
		
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Is that every round player then?


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## rulefan (Jan 24, 2021)

Dibby said:



			Maybe I'm being harsh, it just feels like a worst of both worlds situation.

If you want rigorous procedure *stick to the old way of comp rounds only,* and if you want more cards, but at the risk of abuse go the US way where you can just enter rounds as and when. Instead we have a kind of halfway house.
		
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How did Supplementary Scores fit in to this scenario? 
Why do you say the US can return scores 'as and when'? They operate under the same WHS rules now.




			Given that the future plans are to allow nomads to have handicaps, how would your clubs procedure handle that when it comes, there is no one to email.
		
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Essentially, virtually all nomad scores could be 'non-competition'. No procedure has even been defined yet. Why speculate on something we don't have any idea about?


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## rulefan (Jan 24, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			I find this interesting as I do not know what the procedure will be at our club.

Late last year we did away with registering *by signing in a book *and went to either the IG app or using the PSI screen.
		
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Presumably 'signing in a book' was done before play and was therefore 'registering'.


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## rulefan (Jan 24, 2021)

SammmeBee said:



			Is that every round player then?
		
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Anyone who wishes to put in a General Play score must follow the WHS requirements. Similar to Supplementary Scores


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## Dibby (Jan 24, 2021)

rulefan said:



			How did Supplementary Scores fit in to this scenario?
Why do you say the US can return scores 'as and when'? They operate under the same WHS rules now.



Essentially, virtually all nomad scores could be 'non-competition'. No procedure has even been defined yet. Why speculate on something we don't have any idea about?
		
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In the US there is no requirement to inform anyone prior to playing a round that you will submit it. You just submit your score after the round. The idea of pre-registering your intent to submit is purely a GB&I thing, presumably thought up by the home unions.

It is speculation, but not a big stretch to question who nomads will register with that they are playing a round that they will submit for score.

My "gripe" if you can call it that, as it doesn't keep me awake at night or anything, is that we are halfway in between our old system and the procedures of US implementation of the WHS - I know technically it's the same system but it is definitely administered differently (no pre-registraion as stated above). IMHO it's better to either just have a free for all like in the US where there is no mandate for announcing up front, just submitting scores every round, even incomplete ones, or stick to the old system where only comp scores count, as there is already a standard registration system in place by means of entering.

 I'm open to be corrected on the need to register intent prior to the round in the US, but as far as I can see it's not in the USGA rules. USGA Handicapping Rules


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## rulefan (Jan 24, 2021)

Dibby said:



			In the US there is no requirement to inform anyone prior to playing a round that you will submit it. You just submit your score after the round. The idea of pre-registering your intent to submit is purely a GB&I thing, presumably thought up by the home unions.

It is speculation, but not a big stretch to question who nomads will register with that they are playing a round that they will submit for score.

My "gripe" if you can call it that, as it doesn't keep me awake at night or anything, is that we are halfway in between our old system and the procedures of US implementation of the WHS - I know technically it's the same system but it is definitely administered differently (no pre-registraion as stated above). IMHO it's better to either just have a free for all like in the US where there is no mandate for announcing up front, just submitting scores every round, even incomplete ones, or stick to the old system where only comp scores count, as there is already a standard registration system in place by means of entering.

I'm open to be corrected on the need to register intent prior to the round in the US, but as far as I can see it's not in the USGA rules. USGA Handicapping Rules

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You are correct. There is no mandate in the US version but there is the provision for 'peer review' which may or may not be very rigorous. But I doubt that EG will permit nomads similar leeway.

But when you say 'stick to the old system where only comp scores count', that isn't correct, supplementaries have been in the system for a good few years.
I don't think the US approach is going to have much effect on anyone outside the US as all the big players had more formal procedures previously.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 26, 2021)

rulefan said:



			You must register with whoever the Away club has appointed to handle general play registrations. This will presumably the same person (eg club sec or pro) who deals with internal members' registration. As each club will have their own procedure it would be as well to check before you go. That club will cause the registration to be passed up to the WHS platform ready for the score to be processed after the round, either by an authorised person at the Away or Home club.

How do you see either being abused?
		
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This will not happen at our club. We have nobody working permanently at club (no pro or club sec for example), most of the time there may be some short term bar staff who know little or nothing about golf. And there is very little chance of getting the owner of the club to set up a system where his staff will be able to formally register away players for a General Round. At best, they will turn up and ask to register, and the response they will get will be "I don't know what you mean" or "that's fine, do what you like". 

So, basically they will have no record of pre-registration, and can simply return their card to their home club. To be honest, I think that is what is happening at a lot of clubs. I've had 2 members who happened to tell me they were playing at another course, and they would hand in their card. Due to lockdown, I've not had a chance to pick up any cards, but there has certainly been no formal registration of this round by the club that they played at as far as I can tell.


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## Old Skier (Jan 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			This will not happen at our club. We have nobody working permanently at club (no pro or club sec for example), most of the time there may be some short term bar staff who know little or nothing about golf. And there is very little chance of getting the owner of the club to set up a system where his staff will be able to formally register away players for a General Round. At best, they will turn up and ask to register, and the response they will get will be "I don't know what you mean" or "that's fine, do what you like".

So, basically they will have no record of pre-registration, and can simply return their card to their home club. To be honest, I think that is what is happening at a lot of clubs. I've had 2 members who happened to tell me they were playing at another course, and they would hand in their card. Due to lockdown, I've not had a chance to pick up any cards, but there has certainly been no formal registration of this round by the club that they played at as far as I can tell.
		
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Perhaps the answer would be for your policy to include informing your home club as well as the away club when registering for a casual round.

That is an idea we are seriously contemplating along with a number of other clubs. We might be lucky down here as we started two monthly zoom meetings in the county to kick around ideas and help with WHS matters.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 26, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			Perhaps the answer would be for your policy to include informing your home club as well as the away club when registering for a casual round.

That is an idea we are seriously contemplating along with a number of other clubs. We might be lucky down here as we started two monthly zoom meetings in the county to kick around ideas and help with WHS matters.
		
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Perhaps. Although maybe less useful for away players coming to play our course, as their 1st and only attempt at pre-registration is when they arrive at our course to play.


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## SammmeBee (Jan 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Perhaps. Although maybe less useful for away players coming to play our course, as their 1st and only attempt at pre-registration is when they arrive at our course to play.
		
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Where do they pay a green fee?


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## rulefan (Jan 26, 2021)

An update on the app - due out shortly.

The player will have to be close to or at the club where is going to play (the app uses his phone location). He will register his intent to play in the app. He will score hole by hole gross.
His marker will have to provide his CDH ID to the app.  On completion he will close his card on the app. There will be some sort of 'time control' referencing his entry and score return time. His own h'cap sec will have access to the score but I'm not sure if the sec will verify the update to WHS.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 26, 2021)

SammmeBee said:



			Where do they pay a green fee?
		
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I believe it is all online at the moment.


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## Old Skier (Jan 26, 2021)

rulefan said:



			An update on the app - due out shortly.

 I'm not sure if the sec will verify the update to WHS.
		
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I doubt it but I presume through the dashboard they will be able to delete the score


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## Old Skier (Jan 26, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Perhaps. Although maybe less useful for away players coming to play our course, as their 1st and only attempt at pre-registration is when they arrive at our course to play.
		
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All the more reason for the player to inform his own club prior to play.


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## rulefan (Jan 27, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			I doubt it but I presume through the dashboard they will be able to delete the score
		
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I think they will have to accept (or reject) it for it to be 'registered' as a score on the WHS


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## Old Skier (Jan 27, 2021)

rulefan said:



			I think they will have to accept (or reject) it for it to be 'registered' as a score on the WHS
		
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Hopefully but I dont think it will be through the ISV which just makes another place for us to go to. It was so much easier when everything went through the ISV.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 27, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			All the more reason for the player to inform his own club prior to play.
		
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True, but our club have no control over the policy at other clubs. So, an away player may not realise he should pre-register with his home club before he turns up at ours


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## doublebogey7 (Jan 27, 2021)

rulefan said:



			I think they will have to accept (or reject) it for it to be 'registered' as a score on the WHS
		
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I don't see that being the case,  why should it be any different from  Casual Scores from your home course.


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## Old Skier (Jan 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			True, but our club have no control over the policy at other clubs. So, an away player may not realise he should pre-register with his home club before he turns up at ours
		
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My point is that if it is the players club policy then they should know. I send out updates and information and policies are on the NB. I appreciate that you will have those that ignore what goes out but they then have no grounds for complaint when you dont accept a casual round. No real difference from what should have been happening at clubs for years.


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## Old Skier (Jan 27, 2021)

doublebogey7 said:



			I don't see that being the case,  why should it be any different from  Casual Scores from your home course.
		
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It isn't, you can reject casual scores from a home course. Or have I misunderstood your point.


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## rulefan (Jan 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			True, but our club have no control over the policy at other clubs. So, an away player may not realise he should pre-register with his home club before he turns up at ours
		
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Why do you say a player must register with his home club before registering/playing at an away club? I have seen no such requirement.


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## Old Skier (Jan 27, 2021)

rulefan said:



			Why do you say a player must register with his home club before registering/playing at an away club? I have seen no such requirement.
		
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He doesnt, it's a policy we are thinking of using until away clubs are sorted to accommodate away players.


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## Junior (Jan 27, 2021)

rulefan said:



			An update on the app - due out shortly.

The player will have to be close to or at the club where is going to play (the app uses his phone location). He will register his intent to play in the app. He will score hole by hole gross.
His marker will have to provide his CDH ID to the app.  On completion he will close his card on the app. There will be some sort of 'time control' referencing his entry and score return time. His own h'cap sec will have access to the score but I'm not sure if the sec will verify the update to WHS.
		
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So someone could go out and play 18 holes at an away course,  inputting his score on the app as he goes.  He could then stick his mates cdh id down as "the marker" and his handicap would be adjusted accordingly?


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## mikejohnchapman (Jan 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			So someone could go out and play 18 holes at an away course,  inputting his score on the app as he goes.  He could then stick his mates cdh id down as "the marker" and his handicap would be adjusted accordingly?
		
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What could possibly go wrong?

The massive inbuilt assumption here is that both the technology and the people using it will be upto the task. If the experience thus far with on-line score entry is concerned this is a very questionable assumption.


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## Lilyhawk (Jan 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			So someone could go out and play 18 holes at an away course,  inputting his score on the app as he goes.  He could then stick his mates cdh id down as "the marker" and his handicap would be adjusted accordingly?
		
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If the technology is there so the player needs to be within a certain perimeter from the course, wouldn't it be possible that the markers app need to be connected in the same area as well? Perhaps that isn't doable? I'm a tech-illiterate, so it really is a genuine question.


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## mikejohnchapman (Jan 27, 2021)

rulefan said:



			An update on the app - due out shortly.

The player will have to be close to or at the club where is going to play (the app uses his phone location). He will register his intent to play in the app. He will score hole by hole gross.
His marker will have to provide his CDH ID to the app.  On completion he will close his card on the app. There will be some sort of 'time control' referencing his entry and score return time. His own h'cap sec will have access to the score but I'm not sure if the sec will verify the update to WHS.
		
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Are they going to rely totally on the app?

I would have thought that using a PSI terminal in the relevant clubhouse was potentially more straightforward and practical.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 27, 2021)

mikejohnchapman said:



			Are they going to rely totally on the app?

I would have thought that using a PSI terminal in the relevant clubhouse was potentially more straightforward and practical.
		
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Totally agree. Available to everyone, and stops people having to mess about on their phone (if they have one).

I don't mind if there are robust mobile phone options, but it would be disappointing if some issues became totally reliant on a mobile phone. When I play golf, it is nice to get away from the regular distractions of phone. So, I generally don't even want to look at it as soon as I get to club, just focus on the golf and hopefully a bit of banter with the people I'm playing with.


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## Old Skier (Jan 27, 2021)

mikejohnchapman said:



			Are they going to rely totally on the app?

I would have thought that using a PSI terminal in the relevant clubhouse was potentially more straightforward and practical.
		
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The PSI is an option that is definitely being looked at.


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## rulefan (Jan 27, 2021)

Junior said:



			So someone could go out and play 18 holes at an away course,  inputting his score on the app as he goes.  He could then stick his mates cdh id down as "the marker" and his handicap would be adjusted accordingly?
		
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Do you really think many of your fellow club members would do that? There are many other ways of cheating if that is their intention. 
I haven't seen the app but it would be possible for the marker to be asked to enter a password. But I wonder how many hcap secs really checked the signature of the marker on a supplementary score previously.


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## rulefan (Jan 27, 2021)

mikejohnchapman said:



			Are they going to rely totally on the app?

I would have thought that using a PSI terminal in the relevant clubhouse was potentially more straightforward and practical.
		
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The app will be an option. Why would they discontinue the current options?

But _"Registration must be confirmed on the day itself in the manner prescribed by the club/Committee. "_


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## Swango1980 (Jan 27, 2021)

rulefan said:



			Do you really think many of your fellow club members would do that? There are many other ways of cheating if that is their intention.
I haven't seen the app but it would be possible for the marker to be asked to enter a password. But I wonder how many hcap secs really checked the signature of the marker on a supplementary score previously.
		
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Simple answer, yes. We had a committee member not pre-register, shoot a really good score and then several days later I saw he pre-registered a few minutes before entering his score.

So, in a nutshell, I fully expect many many incidents of abuse of the system and many handicaps being updated before anything can be done about it. Some clubs may hand out harsh punishments (IF they can prove malicious use of the system), some clubs will do nothing because they have a bare bones committee of volunteers, or just want to avoid the aggro of upsetting people and risk losing members.

Before WHS, never a problem. No Supplementary Round ever touched a players handicap until it was formally signed off by someone on the Committee.


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## Junior (Jan 27, 2021)

rulefan said:



			Do you really think many of your fellow club members would do that? There are many other ways of cheating if that is their intention.
I haven't seen the app but it would be possible for the marker to be asked to enter a password. But I wonder how many hcap secs really checked the signature of the marker on a supplementary score previously.
		
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No, no one I play with would do this.  Im sure of that. 

I know of people (a group of 8 in the NW), none of whom I know personally,  who have been banned from opens for cheating and wouldn't put it past them.


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## Old Skier (Jan 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Simple answer, yes. We had a committee member not pre-register, shoot a really good score and then several days later I saw he pre-registered a few minutes before entering his score.

So, in a nutshell, I fully expect many many incidents of abuse of the system and many handicaps being updated before anything can be done about it. Some clubs may hand out harsh punishments (IF they can prove malicious use of the system), some clubs will do nothing because they have a bare bones committee of volunteers, or just want to avoid the aggro of upsetting people and risk losing members.

Before WHS, never a problem. No Supplementary Round ever touched a players handicap until it was formally signed off by someone on the Committee.
		
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What did you do to the committee member


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## rulefan (Jan 27, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Simple answer, yes. We had a committee member not pre-register, shoot a really good score and then several days later I saw he pre-registered a few minutes before entering his score.

So, in a nutshell, I fully expect many many incidents of abuse of the system and many handicaps being updated before anything can be done about it. Some clubs may hand out harsh punishments (IF they can prove malicious use of the system), some clubs will do nothing because they have a bare bones committee of volunteers, or just want to avoid the aggro of upsetting people and risk losing members.

Before WHS, never a problem. No Supplementary Round ever touched a players handicap until it was formally signed off by someone on the Committee.
		
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The score will not be released to the WHS database until it is approved by the home Hcap sec (or other authorised committee member) via the WHS platform. As I understand it, there will be a system time check between registering and score entry.

How did this member bypass the hcap sec processing it in the WHS portal?


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## Swango1980 (Jan 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			What did you do to the committee member
		
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I deleted the score and told him he couldn't do that


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## Swango1980 (Jan 28, 2021)

rulefan said:



			The score will not be released to the WHS database until it is approved by the home Hcap sec (or other authorised committee member) via the WHS platform. As I understand it, there will be a system time check between registering and score entry.

How did this member bypass the hcap sec processing it in the WHS portal?
		
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Completely incorrect.

He entered his score on howdidido. His handicap automatically changed overnight and he played off new handicap at weekend.

As handicap sec, a few days later I checked General Play scores, and noticed his. So, I had to phone him to say he shouldn't have done that, deleted his score.

There is nothing that flags a score for approval.


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## mikejohnchapman (Jan 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Completely incorrect.

He entered his score on howdidido. His handicap automatically changed overnight and he played off new handicap at weekend.

As handicap sec, a few days later I checked General Play scores, and noticed his. So, I had to phone him to say he shouldn't have done that, deleted his score.

There is nothing that flags a score for approval.
		
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Quite agree.

They used to be held until approved - not they go straight into WHS with an option for deletion.

Another reality here is volume - there will potentially hundreds of general play rounds per month in the main season so review is practically very difficult,


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## Swango1980 (Jan 28, 2021)

mikejohnchapman said:



			Quite agree.

They used to be held until approved - not they go straight into WHS with an option for deletion.

Another reality here is volume - there will potentially hundreds of general play rounds per month in the main season so review is practically very difficult,
		
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Exactly, and I suspect some clubs may have real issues with this. We have nearly 500 members, but less than 100 would typically play reasonably often in comps in all sections. So, quite a few have no handicap, or only put in a few scores a year.

With WHS, suddenly they have a nice easy way to put in scores from social golf, and I can see very many starting to use this system. As handicap sec, I'll need to trawl through these scores. No doubt, some will forget to sign in, then sign in after round. Others will sign in but forget to enter score, or just not want to as they played badly, got in a sulk and binned their card.

I have zero chance of properly managing this. I contacted one guy who registered and didn't enter his score. He said people in front were too slow, so he just walked off after 9. 

There is no way the Owner of the club would want me disciplining these players. One, I have no real proof they were being devious anyway. Two, some will simply join somewhere else. Maybe golfers at prestigious clubs are more likely to fall in line as they have invested a lot in that club. Not the case at our place.


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## rulefan (Jan 28, 2021)

My apologies. I was told originally that general play returns would be held in a 'pending' state until approved by 'the committee'. It turns out that CONGU has now taken the US approach and decided that retrospective 'peer review' by the committee or by the marker is sufficient. However there is supposed to be a timing check that a score cannot be returned within a minimum time after registration. It would seem this is either not available with HDID (or has not been switched on).
The EG app will have the location and timing check. But it is up to the individual ISVs how they set up their PSI software or app and up to the club how they use any option the ISV may or may not provide.


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## jim8flog (Jan 28, 2021)

rulefan said:



			My apologies. I was told originally that general play returns would be held in a 'pending' state until approved by 'the committee'. It turns out that CONGU has now taken the US approach and decided that retrospective 'peer review' by the committee or by the marker is sufficient. However there is supposed to be a timing check that a score cannot be returned within a minimum time after registration. It would seem this is either not available with HDID (or has not been switched on).
The EG app will have the location and timing check. But it is up to the individual ISVs how they set up their PSI software or app and up to the club how they use any option the ISV may or may not provide.
		
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As I understand the way IG works is that you must be at the club to use the app with a tee time booked and it checks one against the other to ensure registering is done before the tee time is done before the tee time.

Prior to the WHS all Supplementary Scores  were checked (photo of the card etc) before being approved to go on to a players record.

I did one card under the WHS before lockdown but I am sure it went on my WHS record before being approved.


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## doublebogey7 (Jan 28, 2021)

Old Skier said:



			It isn't, you can reject casual scores from a home course. Or have I misunderstood your point.
		
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Yes the club can reject,  but they are not required to accept the score in order for it to enter the WHS.  Or have I got that wrong.


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## mikejohnchapman (Jan 28, 2021)

doublebogey7 said:



			Yes the club can reject,  but they are not required to accept the score in order for it to enter the WHS.  Or have I got that wrong.
		
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No you are correct. I think the simple reason is that all the scores will need to be included in the PCC calculation overnight and hence any delay in approving them would mess up the calculation.


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## rulefan (Jan 28, 2021)

Swango1980 said:



			Completely incorrect.

He entered his score on howdidido. His handicap automatically changed overnight and he played off new handicap at weekend.

As handicap sec, a few days later I checked General Play scores, and noticed his. So, I had to phone him to say he shouldn't have done that, deleted his score.

There is nothing that flags a score for approval.
		
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Swango.
Just so I'm clear. How did the player keep his scores (card, phone). How did he register (manually, PSI, phone)? How did he post his return (PSI, phone)? Was is via VI or HDID?
Thanks

I'm in the middle of discussions with contacts to get to the bottom of the basic issue.


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## doublebogey7 (Jan 28, 2021)

mikejohnchapman said:



			No you are correct. I think the simple reason is that all the scores will need to be included in the PCC calculation overnight and hence any delay in approving them would mess up the calculation.
		
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As well as sticking to the princple of overnight updating of handicaps.  I don't think anyone wants players having to calculate their own handicap in order to play in a competition because a handicap secretary has been slow in accepting/rejecting scores.


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## mikejohnchapman (Jan 28, 2021)

rulefan said:



			Swango.
Just so I'm clear. How did the player keep his scores (card, phone). How did he register (manually, PSI, phone)? How did he post his return (PSI, phone)? Was is via VI or HDID?
Thanks

I'm in the middle of discussions with contacts to get to the bottom of the basic issue.
		
Click to expand...

We had an of example before Christmas which illustrate some of the problems.

Context is our clubhouse was closed (no PSI). The cell signal is dire as we are in the middle of nowhere. Hence rerely heavily on the club network to enter scores and that is also not the strongest. Use Club V1 and HDID but no option to enter marker into HDID for "Casual Rounds".

Example. Player gets to the course and cannot sign in as the network isn't working. Plays and marks a card but cannot enter scores as network still not working. Player takes card home and registers and then enters score via HDID with time of registration 10 mins different from score entry. Score accepted into WHS. Review conducted afterward and facts about network established - score accepted - ie not deleted.


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## Swango1980 (Jan 28, 2021)

rulefan said:



			Swango.
Just so I'm clear. How did the player keep his scores (card, phone). How did he register (manually, PSI, phone)? How did he post his return (PSI, phone)? Was is via VI or HDID?
Thanks

I'm in the middle of discussions with contacts to get to the bottom of the basic issue.
		
Click to expand...

We use Club V1, and we set our Club V1 settings to allow members to pre-register on HDID or the PSI Scree, and enter their scores.

So, the Player opened HDID on their Phone, and had an option to Sign In to a General Play Round (called Casual Round in HDID). Using the same process he can enter his score.

When I checked several days later, I went onto Club V1, and checked the Casual Round list. He was on the list, and there is a column for Sign In Time and Score Entry Time, so I noticed the issue. 

I've also had lots of people Pre-Register but never enter a score. However, 90% of the time, it is because they didn't know what they were doing, and either thought they were signing in for an actual competition but did it on the wrong option, or they were just messing about on their phone.


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## Old Skier (Jan 28, 2021)

doublebogey7 said:



			As well as sticking to the princple of overnight updating of handicaps.  I don't think anyone wants players having to calculate their own handicap in order to play in a competition because a handicap secretary has been slow in accepting/rejecting scores.
		
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Many are volunteers so it's not always possible to keep updated on what players are up to which is why my preferred option at out club is for them to email me/club if possible to register which will remind me or one of the HC committee to sort in the evening.


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## jim8flog (Jan 28, 2021)

doublebogey7 said:



			I don't think anyone wants players having to calculate their own handicap in order to play in a competition because a handicap secretary has been slow in accepting/rejecting scores.
		
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That cannot happen. Whatever your handicap is on the WHS that day is the correct handicap.  Players do not self adjust either way with the WHS.


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## rulefan (Jan 28, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			That cannot happen. Whatever your handicap is on the WHS that day is the correct handicap.  Players do not self adjust either way with the WHS.
		
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You are spot on with that.
I'm sure it's in the rules or guidance somewhere


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## doublebogey7 (Jan 28, 2021)

jim8flog said:



			That cannot happen. Whatever your handicap is on the WHS that day is the correct handicap.  Players do not self adjust either way with the WHS.
		
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Which was exactly my point,  If casual rounds were set up such that the Handicap Secretary was required either to accept or reject,them,  then there would need to be a requirement for players to calculate thir own handicap,  as committee's are rarely set up to be always able to do the admin every day.


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