# Labour Party discuss



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

Is it a mountain or a mole hill


----------



## robinthehood (Feb 18, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Is it a mountain or a mole hole.
		
Click to expand...

What's a mole hole?

Is that like an escape goat?


----------



## Dando (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Beezerk (Feb 18, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			What's a mole hole?
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s a negative mole hill.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2019)

It is an interesting one to watch unfold. There is no doubt that the Momentum group have managed to pretty much take over Labour and that has left the centrists without a party. Most of the talent in the party, imo, is sat on the back benches as they will not serve under Corbyn. They have tried to remove him but the system doesn't work for the MP's, it works for the members and thanks to the muppet Harriet Harman and her cheap membership move Corbyn followers flooded in. If Corbyn went tomorrow it is likely another of his pals would get in. 

What do the centrists do then? They have clearly decided that waiting for the left to implode is not happening and so they are rolling the dice. The next few weeks will show if they gain any traction, if other MP's jump ship, if backers come in to help them. If they don't then they are stuffed, they will likely lose their seats, history suggests this, and they will disappear to work for Westminster pressure groups or write in the media. Who knows, may be they will pick up some disaffected Tories along the way. Plenty of them at the moment with the current Brexit issues.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

LT, seems to me Labour and Corbyn are sat back waiting for the Torys to implode, and members of Labour are sat back waiting for Corbyn and friends to implode. 
Oh to be a voter.


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Feb 18, 2019)

The problem. Is that the party members, predominantly well left of centre, elect the leader but, in a general election, the majority of non Tory voting voters are much more moderate and don't want to vote for a party dominated by Marxists. The only solution is a new party, whose leader is elected by the party's sitting MPs, it's the only way it makes sense. If there's no breakaway party what I'd like to see is all the deselected moderate candidates stand as independents in their former constituencies. This would likely result in a split Labour vote & another Tory government which would be, ironically, something the majority of voters would not want. 

If the leader of Labour continues to be selected only by the people keen enough to join the party they will never represent the majority of the electorate.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 18, 2019)

Iâ€™m not surprised, and can see most Liberals and quite a few Tories  joining them.
As I see it, Corbin is unelectable and the Tories  have May by the short and curlies and are only waiting for Boris to take over and screw everything up even more than it already is.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			LT, seems to me Labour and Corbyn are sat back waiting for the Torys to implode, and members of Labour are sat back waiting for Corbyn and friends to implode.
Oh to be a voter.
		
Click to expand...

This govt are sat there for the taking but Jezza can't do it. He has let them off the hook. He has the most amazingly incompetent people on his front bench, need we say more than Diane?, and as MiB has pointed out the middle ground of Britain will not vote from him, I left NI out as they do not vote for any of the UK wide parties. The Tories could barely implode much more and yet still he can't land a punch. The Labour moderates were hoping he would implode but the party system is so skewed towards him and his friends right now that he can carry on and no one can touch him or his followers.

It is a terrible time for British politics. Lifelong Labour voters are left not able to do anything but spoil a ballot paper as there is no one out there to represent them. I suspect there are many Tory voters in the same boat as Brexit has split them apart. Maybe out of the ashes...................


----------



## Sweep (Feb 18, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			LT, seems to me Labour and Corbyn are sat back waiting for the Torys to implode, and members of Labour are sat back waiting for Corbyn and friends to implode.
Oh to be a voter.
		
Click to expand...

I think that Corbyn and his cronies have sat back waiting for the Tories to implode and not noticed whatâ€™s happening behind them in their own party.
Momentum is now firmly in charge at the top of the Labour Party which is what they set out for the day Corbyn was elected leader. Many so called disaffected Labour MPâ€™s faced deselection anyway, so an organised jumping of ship is a no brainier.
However, it seems MPâ€™s from all parties need to learn a very important lesson. Who represents us in Parliament has little to do with them. Itâ€™s the electorate who will decide and I believe (and hope) Momentum will not get their way. Labour has been down this road before with Michael Foot and it put the Tories in power for 18 years. This group understands the most potent force in British politics is centrist. Blair knew it and put Labour in power for 13 years. The lessons of the past are obvious.
Whilst there was much talk this morning of anti-semitism which I am sure is a factor, make no mistake, this is just as much about Brexit. The breakaway group seem pretty much in tune on that issue as far as I can tell. 
The new Independent Group need another big wig like Yvette Cooper to join and it will open up the flood gates.
Farageâ€™s Brexit Party is waiting in the wings if Brexit is delayed and whilst in â€œnormalâ€ times this would cause hardly a ripple, as things are right now it will rip both the Tories and Labour apart if it comes to fruition, as MPâ€™s scramble to keep their seats. Tories like Soubry et al face deselection too unless Brexit can be sorted prior to the next election and everyone can make up.
I wouldnâ€™t be too fussed to see wholesale changes in Parliament anyway. I think this current lot are the worst ever. Arrogant and incapable. A toxic combination.
Interesting times.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2019)

Labour Party = unelectable with Corbyn in charge and people like Abbott in his cabinet 

It shows how bad the Labour Party is when itâ€™s the worst Tory in history yet the Labour still canâ€™t get in


----------



## GB72 (Feb 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Iâ€™m not surprised, and can see most Liberals and quite a few Tories  joining them.
As I see it, Corbin is unelectable and the Tories  have May by the short and curlies and are only waiting for Boris to take over and screw everything up even more than it already is.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with this opinion. There has been a total lack of centreist politics for some time with the right moving further right and the left moving further left. If this is is presented right, this movement could gain supporters from both sides and in the current Parliament, it would not take many to move to gain signigicant influence. A big ask but you get 10 or so from each of the main parties plus a few others and you may have enough to necessitate a general election.


----------



## Grant85 (Feb 18, 2019)

I think ultimately this makes it harder to elect a Labour government. 

Lets not remember that in recent years, Brown, Milliband and Corbyn have all failed to win an election or get all that close to stopping the Tories being the largest party. 

But the political system makes it a certainty that if the Independents field a few hundred candidates in targeted left leaning seats, they will probably play into the Tories hands and make it easier for a Conservative majority on fewer votes. 

Perhaps they will choose not to target Labour held seats, but go for Conservative seats in pro EU / less Brexity areas. But that's probably going to leave them with a very short hit list. 

Going to be tough for the likes of Luciana Berger and Chuka Umumna to walk away from huge majorities in their respective seats and start from scratch against a sitting Conservative member - especially given they are both fairly young and I'd imagine will need a salary of some kind. Ultimately in the UK, if you are not elected to any parliament, you are largely ignored. Even Farage had to saddle himself to the Euro Parliament so he could get taken a bit more seriously, otherwise he would have been treated as 'ranty man in suit'. 

Personally felt that other than a few brutal speeches targeting the Labour leadership - there wasn't a whole lot about this morning that screamed this was a slick political operation that was about to sweep across the country like Emmanuel Macron did in France. 

There didn't seem to be a very good website / twitter account / fund raising page launched all that well. It is there, but the protagonists should have been tweeting the bejeezus out of it while they were on stage. 

It all seems a bit half hearted and my initial reaction is that these 7 will probably make very little impact and be cut to 1 or 2 MPs after the next election (albeit that's probably a few years away).


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2019)

Grant85, I think someone has alluded to this already but a number of these MP's, others as well, were being targeted within their own constituency so that they were de-selected in time for the next election. Momentum supporters were joining the local party and pushing for them to be removed. All very feasible to do. They could have stayed, criticised Corbyn more than they already do, been sanctioned and removed. They have jumped before they were pushed.

Brown and Miiliband lost because they were dreadful leaders. How different it could have been had David Milliband won the leadership, not Ed. Don't forget, Blair won 3 elections with centrist policies. Marginally left of centre but very much in the centre. If you read anything by Blair or Alistair Campbell reviewing the early years of them working together the key thing they realised was that to get elected Labour had to move towards the middle ground, not away from it.


----------



## Grant85 (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Grant85, I think someone has alluded to this already but a number of these MP's, others as well, were being targeted within their own constituency so that they were de-selected in time for the next election. Momentum supporters were joining the local party and pushing for them to be removed. All very feasible to do. They could have stayed, criticised Corbyn more than they already do, been sanctioned and removed. They have jumped before they were pushed.

Brown and Miiliband lost because they were dreadful leaders. How different it could have been had David Milliband won the leadership, not Ed. Don't forget, Blair won 3 elections with centrist policies. Marginally left of centre but very much in the centre. If you read anything by Blair or Alistair Campbell reviewing the early years of them working together the key thing they realised was that to get elected Labour had to move towards the middle ground, not away from it.
		
Click to expand...

Completely agree about Labour winning from the centre. The one good thing about the FPTP system is that it forces parties to appeal to a wide range of voter, rather than ending up with 7 or 8 different factions across the spectrum like most European countries have.

I don't think Corbyn is all that much better than Brown or Miliband. All flawed in their own ways. Corbyn may be an effective campaigner, but I feel there is a sinister side to him and he is very much been pushing his own agenda, not the agenda of his voters, MPs or members. He also does appear to lack a reasonable amount of competence. 

Not criticising the 7 for jumping, and accept some were probably on the verge of being pushed out (especially if an election is called) just making a comment that if they do get a head of steam up and field a load of candidates under a 'centrist' banner, it will probably lead to a Conservative majority.

Also - the likes of Corbyn and McDonnell do have a bit of credibility here in that they can say 'we stayed within the party during the Blair / Brown years, we argued our positions and now that we've won the leadership you are walking away'.


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Grant85, I think someone has alluded to this already but a number of these MP's, others as well, were being targeted within their own constituency so that they were de-selected in time for the next election. Momentum supporters were joining the local party and pushing for them to be removed. All very feasible to do. They could have stayed, criticised Corbyn more than they already do, been sanctioned and removed. They have jumped before they were pushed.

Brown and Miiliband lost because they were dreadful leaders. How different it could have been had David Milliband won the leadership, not Ed. Don't forget, Blair won 3 elections with centrist policies. Marginally left of centre but very much in the centre. If you read anything by Blair or Alistair Campbell reviewing the early years of them working together the key thing they realised was that to get elected Labour had to move towards the middle ground, not away from it.
		
Click to expand...


Agree, The prize is in motivating the middle ground.  Nobody bothers with the extremes or the committed - they don't count for many votes compared to the 80% middle ground, and in any case, they cannot be swayed. If they voted for you last time, they'll do it again this time too, regardless of what you say or do. 
The politics of beliefs and ideas is dead, the future is populist...it's how Trump got in. And Chavez. And Bolsonaro. And Duterte. And Conte.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Completely agree about Labour winning from the centre. The one good thing about the FPTP system is that it forces parties to appeal to a wide range of voter, rather than ending up with 7 or 8 different factions across the spectrum like most European countries have.

I don't think Corbyn is all that much better than Brown or Miliband. All flawed in their own ways. Corbyn may be an effective campaigner, but I feel there is a sinister side to him and he is very much been pushing his own agenda, not the agenda of his voters, MPs or members. He also does appear to lack a reasonable amount of competence.

Not criticising the 7 for jumping, and accept some were probably on the verge of being pushed out (especially if an election is called) just making a comment that if they do get a head of steam up and field a load of candidates under a 'centrist' banner, it will probably lead to a Conservative majority.

Also - the likes of Corbyn and McDonnell do have a bit of credibility here in that they can say 'we stayed within the party during the Blair / Brown years, we argued our positions and now that we've won the leadership you are walking away'.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this, but not the 2nd paragraph! To me, Brown was significantly better than Corbyn is. Milliband could well have been, but was the (wrong imo) choice of Unions over his brother. 

I have no 'feeling' of there being a 'sinister' side to Corbyn - I'm almost certain that there is! Mind you, part of that stems from Conservative 'propaganda' about his overt meetings with 'enemies'! I'm pretty certain there would have been covert meetings by Conservative (even representing UK Government) associated folk as well - otherwise there would have been no way that many of the 'deals' made would have got off the ground! I don't have enough factual info re his 'anti-Semitism' to decide one way or the other (simply being a supporter of Palestinian independence/rights doesn't count imo), but it seems another 'negative' that it's one of the 'reasons' for those 7 to leave.

As for his 'competence'....Distinctly lacking as a speaker and Leader imo.

Until Labour (re-)learns the lesson that they have to win the 'centre' voters, I don't believe they'll ever win an election!


----------



## Grant85 (Feb 18, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			I agree with most of this, but not the 2nd paragraph! To me, Brown was significantly better than Corbyn is. Milliband could well have been, but was the (wrong imo) choice of Unions over his brother.

I have no 'feeling' of there being a 'sinister' side to Corbyn - I'm almost certain that there is! Mind you, part of that stems from Conservative 'propaganda' about his overt meetings with 'enemies'! I'm pretty certain there would have been covert meetings by Conservative (even representing UK Government) associated folk as well - otherwise there would have been no way that many of the 'deals' made would have got off the ground! I don't have enough factual info re his 'anti-Semitism' to decide one way or the other (simply being a supporter of Palestinian independence/rights doesn't count imo), but it seems another 'negative' that it's one of the 'reasons' for those 7 to leave.

As for his 'competence'....Distinctly lacking as a speaker and Leader imo.

Until Labour (re-)learns the lesson that they have to win the 'centre' voters, I don't believe they'll ever win an election!
		
Click to expand...

I'd say Corybyn's success in terms of capturing public imagination makes up for his lack of ability in other areas. i.e. his leadership campaigns and his performance in GE 2017 were both very effective and the reason he is still there having lost an election, while Brown and Miliband are not.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 18, 2019)

I'm not sure about the Labour party discus but I'd like to see Jeremy Corbyn doing the shot putt and Diane Abbott doing the 110m hurdles. Or have I missed the point of this thread? ðŸ˜€


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2019)

I donâ€™t think any MP should be allowed to resign from a Party and keep their seat, they should resign, force a by-election and stand as an independent or a.n. other Party candidate if they wish.
The people in their constinucency voted for a Labour/Tory MP not an Independent.
To me itâ€™s abuse of position and itâ€™s the people who voted them into that position who should decide what Party/Person represents them.


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I donâ€™t think any MP should be allowed to resign from a Party and keep their seat, they should resign, force a by-election and stand as an independent or a.n. other Party candidate if they wish.
The people in their constinucency voted for a Labour/Tory MP not an Independent.
To me itâ€™s abuse of position and itâ€™s the people who voted them into that position who should decide what Party/Person represents them.
		
Click to expand...

Believe the vote is intended for the candidate named on the ballot paper rather than the political party they may nominally represent...


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			I'd say Corybyn's success in terms of capturing public imagination makes up for his lack of ability in other areas. i.e. *his leadership campaigns and his performance in GE 2017 were both very effective and the reason he is still there having lost an election*, while Brown and Miliband are not.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe, but *I* think it's more because of the 'power shift' of the Leadership (re-)election process!


----------



## patricks148 (Feb 18, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			I'd say Corybyn's success in terms of capturing public imagination makes up for his lack of ability in other areas. i.e. his leadership campaigns and his performance in GE 2017 were both very effective and the reason he is still there having lost an election, while Brown and Miliband are not.
		
Click to expand...

labour has had to change after Maggie managed to take away most of its main manifesto and ideals, Blair had to re invent a middle centre party, which appealed to Middle England, but alienated Scotland and let the SNP take over, now we have a leftist labour again Middle England won't vote for them, so they are  Fked TBH


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Believe the vote is intended for the candidate named on the ballot paper rather than the political party they may nominally represent...
		
Click to expand...

I agree. It's the candidate's name that comes first and the Party is in brackets! That may not reflect reality (it certainly didn't for my parents!) but....


----------



## Grant85 (Feb 18, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			labour has had to change after Maggie managed to take away most of its main manifesto and ideals, Blair had to re invent a middle centre party, which appealed to Middle England, but alienated Scotland and let the SNP take over, now we have a leftist labour again Middle England won't vote for them, so they are  Fked TBH
		
Click to expand...

Not wanting to change the subject, but what let the SNP 'take over' was Labour using the Scottish Parliament as a talent backwater and having all their 'big hitters' at Westminster, while the SNP treated it as an important democratic institution and prioritised Scotland's interests with skilled politicians who wiped the floor with the likes of Jack McConnell and Iain Gray.


----------



## patricks148 (Feb 18, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			Not wanting to change the subject, but what let the SNP 'take over' was Labour using the Scottish Parliament as a talent backwater and having all their 'big hitters' at Westminster, while the SNP treated it as an important democratic institution and prioritised Scotland's interests with skilled politicians who wiped the floor with the likes of Jack McConnell and Iain Gray.
		
Click to expand...

we were discussing it this morning, my wife was almost one or "Blairs Babes" women that were selected to stand over a man, but didn't want to be selected just because she is female.
 She's started getting back into Politics again recently  and loves Jezza, but i have my reservations TBH


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2019)

patricks148 said:



			labour has had to change after Maggie managed to take away most of its main manifesto and ideals.....
		
Click to expand...

What???


patricks148 said:



			Blair had to re invent a middle centre party, which appealed to Middle England, but alienated Scotland and let the SNP take over, now we have a leftist labour again Middle England won't vote for them, so they are  Fked TBH
		
Click to expand...

My actual Scottish experience is a little out of date, but my impression has been that SNP simply started at pretty much Labour's 'position', added some Scotland-focused policies and some Nationalism. The idea of having a 'local' group with real, even if slightly limited, power is far more attractive than being 'ruled' from afar imo! I can't see Labour ever getting back to the halcyon days of 'guaranteed' results in Scotland!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Believe the vote is intended for the candidate named on the ballot paper rather than the political party they may nominally represent...
		
Click to expand...

But they are only on that ballot paper because of an endorsment by the Party in that area.
I also accept you could put a stuffed toy up as a candidate in some areas representing Lib/Lab/Con and theyâ€™d still get voted in.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I donâ€™t think any MP should be allowed to resign from a Party and keep their seat, they should resign, force a by-election and stand as an independent or a.n. other Party candidate if they wish.
The people in their constinucency voted for a Labour/Tory MP not an Independent.
To me itâ€™s abuse of position and itâ€™s the people who voted them into that position who should decide what Party/Person represents them.
		
Click to expand...

Its no different than an MP standing on a party manifesto and then later voting against it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Its no different than an MP standing on a party manifesto and then later voting against it.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it is, Iâ€™ve no issue with disagreements within Parties and itâ€™s not about any particular Party, local people put you there to represent them, therefore the local people should have a say if you change who you represent.
If they felt so strongly they should resign on principle and let a by-election decide if the people wish to support them, the issue is the fact they know itâ€™s highly unlikely theyâ€™ll get back in, itâ€™s taking money under false pretences to me.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes it is, Iâ€™ve no issue with disagreements within Parties and itâ€™s not about any particular Party, local people put you there to represent them, therefore the local people should have a say if you change who you represent.
If they felt so strongly they should resign on principle and let a by-election decide if the people wish to support them, the issue is the fact they know itâ€™s highly unlikely theyâ€™ll get back in, itâ€™s taking money under false pretences to me.
		
Click to expand...

You appear to be agreeing with me.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 18, 2019)

Eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new Scottish Independent Group.

Labour MSP's are absolutely clueless, They are forever scoring own goals whilst at the same time shooting themselves in the foot.
Every time they attempt to pull down Scottish institutions such as health/transport/police/education etc the SNP stock answer is always 'aye, just look at how well the Welsh Labour group are doing running Wales.'

Latest Wastemonster polls predict just two Labour MP's in the next election.

The secret seven will obviously fail, just like the gang of four did in the Foot/ Kinnock years.
Labour never seem to learn from their mistakes.


----------



## Hobbit (Feb 18, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Yes it is, Iâ€™ve no issue with disagreements within Parties and itâ€™s not about any particular Party, local people put you there to represent them, therefore the local people should have a say if you change who you represent.
If they felt so strongly they should resign on principle and let a by-election decide if the people wish to support them, the issue is the fact they know itâ€™s highly unlikely theyâ€™ll get back in, itâ€™s taking money under false pretences to me.
		
Click to expand...

Isn't there a process whereby if 10% of the electorate sign a petition saying they no longer want that MP to represent them an election can be called? Seem to remember something like that being suggested when the (recent) Labour MP was given a jail sentence for perjury???

Old age, I could be wrong...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			You appear to be agreeing with me.
		
Click to expand...

No, I donâ€™t think an MP staying in their Party and voting against a manifesto should resign, no issue with trying to bring change from within whilst staying loyal to your Party.

If Iâ€™ve misunderstood again youâ€™ll have to explain.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Isn't there a process whereby if 10% of the electorate sign a petition saying they no longer want that MP to represent them an election can be called? Seem to remember something like that being suggested when the (recent) Labour MP was given a jail sentence for perjury???

Old age, I could be wrong...
		
Click to expand...

No idea mate.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 18, 2019)

UKIP teaching Labour a lesson in class. Who would have thunk that.
Carswell and the other guy at least had the guts to stand down and seek re-election


----------



## Grant85 (Feb 18, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Isn't there a process whereby if 10% of the electorate sign a petition saying they no longer want that MP to represent them an election can be called? Seem to remember something like that being suggested when the (recent) Labour MP was given a jail sentence for perjury???

Old age, I could be wrong...
		
Click to expand...

I don't believe this ever became a thing.

It was mooted during the expenses scandal, that constituents should have the ability to 'recall' MPs. But I'm pretty sure the Westminster parliament is morally incapable of introducing such a noble and self-containing measure.

Re: the Labour MP who has been convicted - I believe there is no actual rule that forces her to stand down or forces a by-election. I'm pretty sure Labour would be keen to avoid a by-election defence at all costs in Brexity Peterborough.

Again, this is in contrast to the Scottish Parliament where I believe any people convicted of crimes HAVE to stand down. See Mike Watson, Glasgow MSP who was done for Arson about 15 years ago.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 18, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			I don't believe this ever became a thing.

It was mooted during the expenses scandal, that constituents should have the ability to 'recall' MPs. But I'm pretty sure the Westminster parliament is morally incapable of introducing such a noble and self-containing measure.

Re: the Labour MP who has been convicted - I believe there is no actual rule that forces her to stand down or forces a by-election. I'm pretty sure Labour would be keen to avoid a by-election defence at all costs in Brexity Peterborough.

Again, this is in contrast to the Scottish Parliament where I believe any people convicted of crimes HAVE to stand down. See Mike Watson, Glasgow MSP who was done for Arson about 15 years ago.
		
Click to expand...

The conviction has to be for a longer sentence than the recent MP was given. Had it been longer she would have been forced out by parliament and a re-election would have occurred.

MP's are rarely going to resign voluntarily unless they are independently wealthy. An MP's salary is decent, how do they replace that?, and the pension is extremely good, more than that really. Few people would throw that away unless money is not an issue for you.


----------



## Hobbit (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			The conviction has to be for a longer sentence than the recent MP was given. Had it been longer she would have been forced out by parliament and a re-election would have occurred.

MP's are rarely going to resign voluntarily unless they are independently wealthy. An MP's salary is decent, how do they replace that?, and the pension is extremely good, more than that really. Few people would throw that away unless money is not an issue for you.
		
Click to expand...

Its called a Recall Petition. However, it does need the MP to be convicted and sentenced for more than 12 months.


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			But they are only on that ballot paper because of an endorsment by the Party in that area.
.
		
Click to expand...

They are there as they've followed due process... Could be said they've used/abused the system... But, my point still remains... It's the candidate that gets the votes not the party...


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			They are there as they've followed due process... Could be said they've used/abused the system... But, my point still remains... It's the candidate that gets the votes not the party...
		
Click to expand...

No worries Steve, I agree what it says on the ballot paper, but cynically believe people vote by rosette colour in the main.
And when those MPâ€™s followed due process it will of been with the intention of representing a particular Party.


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 18, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No worries Steve, I agree what it says on the ballot paper, but cynically believe people vote by rosette colour in the main.
And when those MPâ€™s followed due process it will of been with the intention of representing a particular Party.
		
Click to expand...

Hopefully then, 'people' will take it as a lesson and get more involved with the process beyond the colour of the rosette... Might actually get rewarded with better governance...


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No, I donâ€™t think an MP staying in their Party and voting against a manifesto should resign, no issue with trying to bring change from within whilst staying loyal to your Party.

If Iâ€™ve misunderstood again youâ€™ll have to explain.
		
Click to expand...

IMO should an MP stand for election on the Party Manifesto and then vote against it (like many have done with Brexit) they should have the party whip removed and become independant. I guess you would agree they should then stand for re-election.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			IMO should an MP stand for election on the Party Manifesto and then vote against it (like many have done with Brexit) they should have the party whip removed and become independant. I guess you would agree they should then stand for re-election.
		
Click to expand...

And what if they state, prior to the election, that they will 'defy' the manifesto on a specific matter - especially if that's also the way the electorate voted. Do they represent the Party or the Electorate?


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 18, 2019)

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/02/18/the-labour-split-press-conference-had-an-unexpected-voiceover/


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 18, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			And what if they state, prior to the election, that they will 'defy' the manifesto on a specific matter - especially if that's also the way the electorate voted. Do they represent the Party or the Electorate?
		
Click to expand...

Again they should have the whip removed and become independant or join a party that is more in tune to their beliefs.


----------



## williamalex1 (Feb 19, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Isn't there a process whereby if 10% of the electorate sign a petition saying they no longer want that MP to represent them an election can be called? Seem to remember something like that being suggested when the (recent) Labour MP was given a jail sentence for perjury???

Old age, I could be wrong...
		
Click to expand...

You maybe thinking of Tommy Sheridan the Solidarity MP who was jailed for 3 years.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Feb 19, 2019)

What is interesting is that at a time when the opposition should be having a go at the government, mid term and all that, Labour are succeeding to focus all the attention on themselves and away from such mundane matters as Brexit, The Economy , Health & Education.

Mrs May must be thinking itâ€™s her birthday, Christmas, wedding day and lottery winning day all rolled into one.

Iâ€™m a Tory , the current government are , in my opinion , poor. But with Labour members leaving to become independents , and with labour having to beat the SNP in Scotland to stand any chance of winning a general election, they are handing the next GE to the Toryâ€™s on a plate.

Ok a few disgruntled Toryâ€™s might join the labour refugees, but unless there are mass resignations and a new centrist party is formed thatâ€™s gathers momentum ( although I doubt any momentum members would join- see what I did there ðŸ˜Ž)

But thatâ€™s what happened in France with Macron and thatâ€™s no bed of roses.
Itâ€™s got all the hallmarks of the gang of 4 who faded into obscurity after a while.

A healthy government needs a functioning opposition to keep them on their toes,  rather like the SPL needs both Celtic and Rangers.

And at the moment Both parties are failing the country

Edit

And now Derek Hatton is rejoining labour, thatâ€™ll keep the papers busy for the next year or so


----------



## jp5 (Feb 19, 2019)

Dearie me. This Government suffered the biggest EVER loss a Government has had, I'd say the opposition are doing about fine. Under the FTPA what do you expect them to do?


----------



## Crazyface (Feb 19, 2019)

What I don't understand is that these 7 clowns left a party because of anti sematism (racisim) really?, yet the Labour party were actually winning HOC votes, albeit on stuff that doesn't actually matter. And they choose this time to walk away?
Also, with the Tories in a complete shambles, with loads of their MP's voting against themselves (and thank God for that), but the Tories NEVER have a huge defection? Maybe the odd one now and again, but NEVER seven ! They stick together like glue on votes that actually matter, making sure that any rebellion vote is always just one more than the opposition. They fight their cause from the inside and that's what these 7 clowns should be doing. Splitting off will mean they loose they MP status at the next General Election (note they didn't resign their posts. Nose in troughs syndrom).
We desperately need some common sense in our politics at the moment and neither side will give a cm. Fighting against each other when they needed to be united to fight the EU for what the people voted for to ensure it was delivered.


----------



## jim8flog (Feb 19, 2019)

I must get new glasses, I thought the thread title was Labour Party disgust.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 19, 2019)

jp5 said:



			Dearie me. This Government suffered the biggest EVER loss a Government has had, I'd say the opposition are doing about fine. Under the FTPA what do you expect them to do?
		
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I think that was more to do with the motion rather than the quality of the opposition, partly because even some members of the governing party voted against their own leadership.
Looking at the state of this government the opposition are doing anything but fine. In fact the opposition are diabolical.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 19, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			What is interesting is that at a time when the opposition should be having a go at the government, mid term and all that, Labour are succeeding to focus all the attention on themselves and away from such mundane matters as Brexit, The Economy , Health & Education.

Mrs May must be thinking itâ€™s her birthday, Christmas, wedding day and lottery winning day all rolled into one.

Iâ€™m a Tory , the current government are , in my opinion , poor. But with Labour members leaving to become independents , and with labour having to beat the SNP in Scotland to stand any chance of winning a general election, they are handing the next GE to the Toryâ€™s on a plate.

Ok a few disgruntled Toryâ€™s might join the labour refugees, but unless there are mass resignations and a new centrist party is formed thatâ€™s gathers momentum ( although I doubt any momentum members would join- see what I did there ðŸ˜Ž)

But thatâ€™s what happened in France with Macron and thatâ€™s no bed of roses.
Itâ€™s got all the hallmarks of the gang of 4 who faded into obscurity after a while.

A healthy government needs a functioning opposition to keep them on their toes,  rather like the SPL needs both Celtic and Rangers.

And at the moment Both parties are failing the country

Edit

And now Derek Hatton is rejoining labour, thatâ€™ll keep the papers busy for the next year or so
		
Click to expand...

Yup, Labour thought they were having a bad day and then someone letâ€™s Derek Hatton back in. You couldnâ€™t make it up.


----------



## drdel (Feb 19, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Yup, Labour thought they were having a bad day and then someone letâ€™s* Derek Hatton *back in. You couldnâ€™t make it up.
		
Click to expand...

Heard him interviewed today; it was an embarrassing trip back decades.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 20, 2019)

Short term aims of the IG are to overtake the SNP to get third party status and short money.
I do not think they can do either until the next GE.


----------



## Crazyface (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Short term aims of the IG are to overtake the SNP to get third party status and short money.
I do not think they can do either until the next GE.
		
Click to expand...

The "IG" did not think about things did they? I mean IG? Just what sort of a name is that? Er hi we're the independent group vote for us. LOL When you start a new party up you must, at the very least, have a powerful strong name. Look at our Nige. His possible new party is The BREXIT party. Although I think this is just a play on words for after the end of March we'll, hopefully, be having a Brexit Party. Could work out cool for me. My companies contract ends at the end of March, so I could be having a proper party !!!!!


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 20, 2019)

The mood of the country is very strange at the moment.
If IG can harvest around 10% of the GE votes and align themselves with the other small parties there would be a third force with a lot of influence over Labour/Tory.

I do not see it as absolutely impossible for IG to light a match under British politics.
If the three Tory MP's were to join quickly they would have a natural leader in Sourby


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 20, 2019)

Might need to rename this thread with Allen, Sourby and Wollaston rumoured to defect today.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The mood of the country is very strange at the moment.
If IG can harvest around 10% of the GE votes and align themselves with the other small parties there would be a third force with a lot of influence over Labour/Tory.

I do not see it as absolutely impossible for IG to light a match under British politics.
If the three Tory MP's were to join quickly they would have a natural leader in Sourby
		
Click to expand...

Sourbry is not the warmest though is she? She always looks so angry. If she can tone that down then a combination of her and Chukka as leader and deputy, whichever way round, could prove quite attractive to many people.


----------



## chrisd (Feb 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sourbry is not the warmest though is she? She always looks so angry. If she can tone that down then a combination of her and Chukka as leader and deputy, whichever way round, could prove quite attractive to many people.
		
Click to expand...

You serious?


----------



## Crazyface (Feb 20, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Sourbry is not the warmest though is she? She always looks so angry. If she can tone that down then a combination of her and Chukka as leader and deputy, whichever way round, could prove quite attractive to many people.
		
Click to expand...

Sour bry is just that. Sour! She has her head up somewhere dark and just wants the country do be how she thinks it should be. It's a Ner Ner XXX from me.


----------



## Crazyface (Feb 20, 2019)

Labour however poured yellow stuff on their own chips when they elected Corbin (twice!!! how that for incompetence!!!).

You gotta laugh.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 20, 2019)

chrisd said:



			You serious?
		
Click to expand...

Compared to the current Conservative and Labour Party, yes I am. There is no one in the middle ground right now and so an alternative, a viable one, would gain votes. A lot of people I speak to feel lost at the moment with the options out there.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2019)

Crazyface said:



			Labour however poured yellow stuff on their own chips when they elected Corbin (twice!!! how that for incompetence!!!).

You gotta laugh.
		
Click to expand...

Yet at the last GE he led the Party to a swing of just under 10%, the largest by any Party since 1945, resulting in a hung Parliament and May buying off the DUP Vote.
Doesnâ€™t really look that incompetent.


----------



## User62651 (Feb 20, 2019)

chrisd said:



			You serious?
		
Click to expand...

If you voted remain Tories like Grieve, Clarke and Soubry are to be looked up to. They aren't in it for themselves like Boris, they genuinely care deeply about where we're headed and want to avoid no deal so are prepared to stand up and say so, taking much abuse in the process, decent principled parliamentarians imo. 

Conversely if you voted leave you likely despise them for, in your eyes, frustrating brexit.

Moderates in the centre ground look a better proposition than a neo communist labour party and an ERG led hard right Tory party. People often comment on here, from all sides how bad both govt and opposition are, so a new option is worth looking at at least, no?


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Yet at the last GE he led the Party to a swing of just under 10%, the largest by any Party since 1945, resulting in a hung Parliament and May buying off the DUP Vote.
Doesnâ€™t really look that incompetent.
		
Click to expand...

Just think what they could do if they actually got their act together...


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Yet at the last GE he led the Party to a swing of just under 10%, the largest by any Party since 1945, resulting in a hung Parliament and May buying off the DUP Vote.
Doesnâ€™t really look that incompetent.
		
Click to expand...

He did infact, although it was mainly by promising to stuff millenials mouths with gold.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 20, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Just think what they could do if they actually got their act together...
		
Click to expand...

Like Blair/Brown did.
Corbyn is the latter day Kinnock, unelectable.


----------



## Maninblack4612 (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Like Blair/Brown did.
Corbyn is the latter day Kinnock, unelectable.
		
Click to expand...

More like Michael Foot in his politics & dress (before he smartened himself up)


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			He did infact, although it was mainly by promising to stuff millenials mouths with gold.
		
Click to expand...

So no different than the promises made to the Brexit Leave campaign? Or were the electorate only bribed once?


----------



## MegaSteve (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Like Blair/Brown did.
Corbyn is the latter day Kinnock, unelectable.
		
Click to expand...

Blair offered policies the electorate wanted... His failure to deliver them was his undoing... Jezza offers policies of the party faithful which are not always in line with the voters wish list...


----------



## gregbwfc (Feb 20, 2019)

3 Tories just resigned and joined the independent group.


----------



## IanM (Feb 20, 2019)

Blair got in after the Tories had been in far too long and lost the plot....  he was telly friendly and trendy.

Jezza is an evil Trot, who has consistently aligned himself to our enemies.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 20, 2019)

Said this would happen, becoming a cross party group


----------



## Sweep (Feb 20, 2019)

gregbwfc said:



			3 Tories just resigned and joined the independent group.
		
Click to expand...

Same as the 7 from Labour really. Jumping before they were deselected. This time though no pretence itâ€™s about anything other than Brexit. All 3 stood on the Conservative manifesto and once elected worked against it.
I doubt though that they will be shouting quite so hard for a second referendum on their election because their voters didnâ€™t know what they were voting for.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2019)

And so the People's Anti Brexit Party is born, I don't buy all that leaving due to anti semitism baloni,  they've seen a gap in the market and gone for it.


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 20, 2019)

George Galloway has told Sky News he has applied to rejoin the Labour Party.
The former MP defended Jeremy Corbyn, saying claims of anti-Semitism made by the MPs who have quit the party, were a â€œlieâ€.
And he said he had written to Labour's general secretary Jennie Formby to ask her to rescind his expulsion.
Mr Galloway was expelled from the party in 2003 over outspoken comments on the Iraq war.
A disciplinary hearing found he had brought Labour into disrepute for â€œinciting Arabs to fight British troopsâ€.
Mr Galloway denied this, saying it was a â€œshow trialâ€ and vowing to â€œmake sure Tony Blair regrets this dayâ€.
He returned to the Commons at the 2005 as leader of the anti-war Respect party, after defeating a Labour candidate in Bethnal Green and Bow.
He won another victory against Labour in the 2012 Bradford West by-election but lost the seat at the 2015 general election.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 20, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			And so the People's Anti Brexit Party is born, I don't buy all that leaving due to anti semitism baloni,  they've seen a gap in the market and gone for it.
		
Click to expand...

I think the Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid got there first 
Brings the numbers up to over 60 now, excluding Lab/Tory.
 Starting to get interesting.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 20, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			George Galloway has told Sky News he has applied to rejoin the Labour Party....
		
Click to expand...

That (rejection) might well be something Labour can unite about!


----------



## Sweep (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think the Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid got there first 
Brings the numbers up to over 60 now, excluding Lab/Tory.
Starting to get interesting.
		
Click to expand...

Not really. They all voted against the government on Brexit anyway. Well, apart from allowing the referendum and triggering Article 50 ðŸ¤”


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I think the Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid got there first 
Brings the numbers up to over 60 now, excluding Lab/Tory.
 Starting to get interesting.
		
Click to expand...

I actually meant a party someone would genuinely pay attention to ðŸ˜‰


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 20, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Blair offered policies the electorate wanted... His failure to deliver them was his undoing... Jezza offers policies of the party faithful which are not always in line with the voters wish list...
		
Click to expand...

Failed to deliver...â€¦...is that why they won 3 general elections.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 20, 2019)

Whatâ€™s quite telling about Soubry, Wollaston and Allen leaving the Tories is that they didnâ€™t have the guts to go before 7 Labour MPâ€™s paved the way for them.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 20, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Whatâ€™s quite telling about Soubry, Wollaston and Allen leaving the Tories is that they didnâ€™t have the guts to go before 7 Labour MPâ€™s paved the way for them.
		
Click to expand...

No common ideology between the two groups. Not happy to stand in a bye election for a "People's Vote".


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 20, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			No common ideology between the two groups. Not happy to stand in a bye election for a "People's Vote".
		
Click to expand...

Yes there is, they'll all be finding out how to claim job seekers allowance.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 20, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			I actually meant a party someone would genuinely pay attention to ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Fair enough
I thought it was because you could not see beyond blinkered two party politics in NE England.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 20, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Whatâ€™s quite telling about Soubry, Wollaston and Allen leaving the Tories is that they didnâ€™t have the guts to go before 7 Labour MPâ€™s paved the way for them.
		
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, the timing of any moves like this may well be planned in advance to gain maximum media coverage and to dictate the headlines. Yesterday introduced it, today was about a growing movement and cross party support whilst also keeping it in the headlines for another day and by adding the element of Tory defectors now, it remains front page. Would not be surprised to see a drip feed of defections over the next few days up to the weekend to keep the story going and pontentially be the big editorial piece in the Sunday papers.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 20, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			No common ideology between the two groups. Not happy to stand in a bye election for a "People's Vote".
		
Click to expand...

I find this disappointing and to a small degree a loophole, albeit a valid and consistent one that has been used for many years. They've left their party, the one which they campaigned under and were duly elected, by choice and yet the constituents get no say in the matter or how this will change what their MP does/doesn't do at a local level and all the time they are still getting a pay cheque until the next election.

Had this been brought about by the death of a standing MP it would have evoked a by-election by default. If you choose to leave a party you should be prepared to take your views and politics to the the doorsteps of the constituency and fight for the right to remain in Westminster


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 20, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			...
Had this been brought about by the death of a standing MP it would have evoked a by-election by default....
		
Click to expand...

That's because the particular electorate would no longer have an MP to represent them. That's not the case here!

Though a Private Members Bill was introduced (First Reading) in 2011. Currently 'awaiting further progress'.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 20, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			That's because the particular electorate would no longer have an MP to represent them. That's not the case here!
		
Click to expand...

and by election now would leave the constituencies unrepresented at a very important polictical time.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 20, 2019)

I'm quite encouraged by their actions. They have clearly agonised over it and have taken a principled stance that they can no longer support where their respective parties are moving. Whether it be a UKIP lite tribute band party of Rees-Moggs, Kawczyskis and Chopes are whatever the hell labour are turning into with antisemitism and Derick Hatton.

I quite like the idea of a party with views from the left and right working together to find a way forwards instead of the increasingly ideologically and dogmatic direction the other parties are following. Bit of social concern mixed with sensible economics is not a bad thing in my book. It may come to nothing, it may be the start of a new chapter in British politics, who knows.  But anyone who thinks the way things were working was doing the country proud needs their head examining. We are currently experiencing the most incompetent level of governance I can think of. So I can only commend them for trying something else and putting their money where their mouth is.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2019)

GB72 said:



			and by election now would leave the constituencies unrepresented at a very important polictical time.
		
Click to expand...

Their constituents may feel unrepresented now, some of those 11 come from areas that voted by an over-whelming majority for Leave.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



*Their constituents may feel unrepresented now*, some of those 11 come from areas that voted by an over-whelming majority for Leave.
		
Click to expand...

I'm from Soubry's constituency and I feel pretty well represented now as she's gone up in my estimation 

Can't vouch for the others but taken from her twitter account  _'I stood on a promise to support the #*SingleMarket* #*CustomsUnion* & polled the highest vote for a Conservative candidate in #*Broxtowe* for over 25 years. I intend to honour those promises._ '  So it should have been pretty clear to anyone who voted for her where she stood on Europe.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			I'm from Soubry's constituency and I feel pretty well represented now as she's gone up in my estimation 

Can't vouch for the others but taken from her twitter account  _'I stood on a promise to support the #*SingleMarket* #*CustomsUnion* & polled the highest vote for a Conservative candidate in #*Broxtowe* for over 25 years. I intend to honour those promises._ '  So it should have been pretty clear to anyone who voted for her where she stood on Europe.
		
Click to expand...

Were you one of the 54% that voted Leave in Broxtowe?  
Did you vote for her though or is the support for her a new thing? 

Genuine question, do you believe she would be re-elected standing as an Independent against a Tory nomination?


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

As someone pointed out already, they appear to be a group with nothing in common other than wanting to stop Brexit and dislikng Corbyn.  When the Brexit issue comes to fruition (whatever that may turn out to be) what will be the political glue that binds them into some worthwhile entity?    Maybe they could form  'The wishy washy party against anything they dislike but never sure of what they do like'.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			I'm from Soubry's constituency and I feel pretty well represented now as she's gone up in my estimation 

Can't vouch for the others but taken from her twitter account  _'I stood on a promise to support the #*SingleMarket* #*CustomsUnion* & polled the highest vote for a Conservative candidate in #*Broxtowe* for over 25 years. I intend to honour those promises._ '  So it should have been pretty clear to anyone who voted for her where she stood on Europe.
		
Click to expand...

OK she won the nomination for her constituency and a narrow win for the seat but if she never stood for her parties manifesto why did she not have the backbone then to stand as an independant.


----------



## chrisd (Feb 20, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			As someone pointed out already, they appear to be a group with nothing in common other than wanting to stop Brexit and dislikng Corbyn.  When the Brexit issue comes to fruition (whatever that may turn out to be) what will be the political glue that binds them into some worthwhile entity?    Maybe they could form  'The wishy washy party against anything they dislike but never sure of what they do like'.
		
Click to expand...

Or the "Mr Angry from Tunbridge Wells" Party?


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Were you one of the 54% that voted Leave in Broxtowe? 
Did you vote for her though or is the support for her a new thing? 

Genuine question, do you believe she would be re-elected standing as an Independent against a Tory nomination?
		
Click to expand...

Surprisingly enough I was not one of the 54% that voted to leave.  And I did not vote for her as there was another candidate that more aligned with my views on several issues, where as I only agreed with Soubry on a handful of issues.

Not sure about her chances as an independent. I think it would depend on what type of candidates Labour and The Tories put against her.  I don't think a hard line tory brexiter would do that well but if they put a more centrist against her then she may well get a lot of those votes. We used to have a really good Labour constituency MP but the last one they put forwards was a bit of a non event.  The constituency is pretty varied with farmers, some wealth and some less well off areas so hard to call really.  The tories have had it in the last 3 but before that it flip flopped quite a bit I think so it's not a stick a blue/red rosette on a pig type area.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 20, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			OK she won the nomination for her constituency and a narrow win for the seat but *if she never stood for her parties manifesto* why did she not have the backbone then to stand as an independant.
		
Click to expand...

She did in many areas and has stated that she would still vote with the tories on several areas now.

_The three MPs said they will support the government on areas such as the economy, security and improvements to public services, but they felt "honour bound to put our constituents' and country's interests first" over Brexit. _from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47306022


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			As someone pointed out already, they appear to be a group with nothing in common other than wanting to stop Brexit and dislikng Corbyn.  When the Brexit issue comes to fruition (whatever that may turn out to be) what will be the political glue that binds them into some worthwhile entity?    Maybe they could form  'The wishy washy party against anything they dislike but never sure of what they do like'.
		
Click to expand...

Itâ€™s not just those 2 areas the 3 ex-tories are saying is the issue in their press conference, there seems to be a lot of problems inside the tory party and with mayâ€™s leadership as well.
2 of them stating quite categorically they wouldnâ€™t rejoin the tory party.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 20, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Or the "Mr Angry from Tunbridge Wells" Party?
		
Click to expand...

I think the tories have that particular vote sewn up.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s not just those 2 areas the 3 ex-tories are saying is the issue in their press conference, there seems to be a lot of problems inside the tory party and with mayâ€™s leadership as well.
2 of them stating quite categorically they wouldnâ€™t rejoin the tory party.
		
Click to expand...

Soubry came out pretty hard on May literally 3 hours after the result was called in the last general election. She was a Cameron person and she didn't mince her words about TMay, so suspect the relationship there has been broken for a long time.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			Soubry came out pretty hard on May literally 3 hours after the result was called in the last general election. She was a Cameron person and she didn't mince her words about TMay, so suspect the relationship there has been broken for a long time.
		
Click to expand...

Yes mate, just keeping SR on his toes with his blame â€œBrexit and Corbynâ€ for everything excuse


----------



## Hobbit (Feb 20, 2019)

Personally, I'd rather not see Sourby in politics at all. Its got nothing to do with Brexit or second vote. Its to do with when SSI went bust and the steel plant on Teesside was closed. I am well aware of when SSI went to the govt for help, it was in the July, and I am well aware of what she said in the House and on TV about the govt not being approached till the Sept. A minister lying to the House is a breach of parliamentary code.

She's a slippery liar and I wouldn't vote for her if she was the only candidate standing.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s not just those 2 areas the 3 ex-tories are saying is the issue in their press conference, there seems to be a lot of problems inside the tory party and with mayâ€™s leadership as well.
2 of them stating quite categorically they wouldnâ€™t rejoin the tory party.
		
Click to expand...

Yes it is, they have nothing else of any substance in common. Mays leadership issues are related mainly to Brexit, she romped the leadership and won a no confidence vote and it's little to do with the Labour defectors who had their own leadership nightmare.

No need to keep me on my toes matey; I float like a butterfly ðŸ˜‰


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			She did in many areas and has stated that she would still vote with the tories on several areas now.

_The three MPs said they will support the government on areas such as the economy, security and improvements to public services, but they felt "honour bound to put our constituents' and country's interests first" over Brexit. _from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47306022

Click to expand...

Sourbry is a real joke of an MP. She criticises her own Government for their handling of Brexit when she has tried at every opportunity to work against and frustrate the democratic vote. She comes over as Rabid rather than honourable. Maybe she's in favour of a second referendum in her own constituency. 

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ That picture of them in the BBC link   'We are the, we are the, we are the, Mods'


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 20, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Yes it is, they have nothing else of any substance in common. Mays leadership issues are related mainly to Brexit, she romped the leadership and won a no confidence vote and it's little to do with the Labour defectors who had their own leadership nightmare.

No need to keep me on my toes matey; I float like a butterfly ðŸ˜‰
		
Click to expand...

Sting like one as well


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 20, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sting like one as well

Click to expand...

No need for Bees here ðŸ˜œ


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 20, 2019)

3 Torries throwing their toys out the pram because T wonâ€™t give them an undemocratic 2nd ref? Good riddance to them. Donâ€™t think they will be missed.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 20, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			3 Torries throwing their toys out the pram because T wonâ€™t give them an undemocratic 2nd ref? Good riddance to them. Donâ€™t think they will be missed.
		
Click to expand...

I thought they absolutely nailed the 40 year problem with the 'nasty section' of the Tory party.
Good for them to have the courage to stand up to the bullies.
A large chunk of the UK will not disagree with that message.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I thought they absolutely nailed the 40 year problem with the 'nasty section' of the Tory party.
Good for them to have the courage to stand up to the bullies.
*A large chunk of the UK will not disagree with that message*.
		
Click to expand...

although a large proportion of a golf message board probably will.


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 20, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I thought they absolutely nailed the 40 year problem with the 'nasty section' of the Tory party.
Good for them to have the courage to stand up to the bullies.
A large chunk of the UK will not disagree with that message.
		
Click to expand...

Really? I thought it was just a general venting of spleen and bile, but little of substance said.


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 20, 2019)

The â€œIndependent Groupâ€ is already getting into trouble with â€¦ the Guardian, as it is not registered as a political party, but as a company called Gemini A which is owned by Gavin Shuker one of the snooty seven. Why didnâ€™t they just call it Mandy Blair-Campbell Ltd?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...icised-for-not-registering-as-political-party


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 20, 2019)

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-suspended-labour-party-15861929


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 20, 2019)

â€œPoliticians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reasonâ€.

Mark Twain.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 22, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Itâ€™s not just those 2 areas the 3 ex-tories are saying is the issue in their press conference, there seems to be a lot of problems inside the tory party and with mayâ€™s leadership as well.
2 of them stating quite categorically they wouldnâ€™t rejoin the tory party.
		
Click to expand...

Having left the party at this crucial time, I doubt the Tories would have them back anyway.


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 22, 2019)

Rumour is another one has quit, Ian Austin (L)


----------



## Hacker Khan (Feb 22, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Really? I thought it was just a general venting of spleen and bile, but little of substance said.
		
Click to expand...

Enough about the leave campaign, we were talking about the new TIG group.......


----------



## User62651 (Feb 22, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			Rumour is another one has quit, Ian Austin (L)
		
Click to expand...

Confirmed left, he's not joining the 'trendy' new IG though and he's not wangling to stop Brexit either, long standing Labour man so no agenda other than he must be truly exasperated with where Corbyn has taken and is taking the Labour Party. Sad it's come to that.
Just adding more uncertainty to fairly worrying times.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 22, 2019)

Seeing they all like the idea of peoples votes they should be happy with one in their own constituencies


----------



## JamesR (Feb 22, 2019)

Surely it goes against the â€œwill of the peopleâ€ to have another vote


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 22, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Confirmed left, he's not joining the 'trendy' new IG though and he's not wangling to stop Brexit either, long standing Labour man so no agenda other than he must be truly exasperated with where Corbyn has taken and is taking the Labour Party. Sad it's come to that.
Just adding more uncertainty to fairly worrying times.
		
Click to expand...

Seems to me that they have kept some fundamental failings/flaws (specifically anti-Semitism) iif not totally, then at least 'pretty much' under wraps/out of the media, very well. To me, genuine anti-Semitism is obscene, but so is the denial of reasonable Palestinian (or any other 'race' for that matter) rights! I don't believe criticism of the Human Rights abuses that are a consequence of some of the policies of the State of Israel is anti-Semitic - at least not as per the definitions I've seen!


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 22, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Surely it goes against the â€œwill of the peopleâ€ to have another vote
		
Click to expand...

Exactly and these defectors in IG are all proponents of a second vote.  Rather hypocritical, don't you think.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 22, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Rather hypocritical, don't you think.
		
Click to expand...

To request a by-election?
Yes ðŸ‘


----------



## Sweep (Feb 23, 2019)

JamesR said:



			To request a by-election?
Yes ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

Not really.
Those in favour of a second referendum say:
_The landscape of Brexit has changed. People know more now.
They were ill informed prior to the vote.
They didnâ€™t know what they were voting for._
I disagree. Brexit is the same as it ever was. People knew the situation. There was plenty of info available and they did know what they were voting for. To suggest otherwise is a little insulting tbh. 

All these MPâ€™s cite the above reasons when calling for a second referendum.
However, in the case for a by-election all the above is true.
_The landscape of their constituency has changed _- through their actions.
_People do know more now _- they now know they voted for a candidate who was not true to the manifesto they presented to the electorate.
_They were ill informed prior to the vote _- They thought they were voting for a member of a party when they were actually voting for something quite different.
_They didnâ€™t know what they were voting for _- That is clearly true and is beyond doubt.
The integrity of an MP is paramount. It has great bearing on how well they can do their job. These MPâ€™s cannot argue the case for a second referendum using the above reasoning and yet conveniently ignore it in the case for a second election in their own constituency and expect to keep their integrity. The respect of their electorate depends upon it.
I am afraid this is typical of todayâ€™s politician. They are quite prepared to accept and uphold democracy when it gets them elected but very happy to ignore and even deny it when it goes against them.
There are also fundamental reasons why by-elections should be called and a second referendum cannot.
A by-election causes a bit of uncertainty in a constituency. A second referendum delays Brexit and causes pan-European uncertainty, especially nationally in the UK.
A by-election serves democracy across the whole political spectrum of issues. A second referendum denies democracy on a single binary choice.
A by-election can be organised in weeks. A referendum would take months if not longer.
The impact of a by-election is as nothing compared to the triggering of a second referendum which would call into question Britainâ€™s position as one of the worldâ€™s great democracies. It would go against the very demands we make of other nations.

If these MPâ€™s had the slightest belief they were representing the true will of their constituents they would take action and trigger a by election immediately. The fact that they have failed to do so tells us all we need to know.


----------



## User62651 (Feb 23, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Not really.
Those in favour of a second referendum say:
_The landscape of Brexit has changed. People know more now.
They were ill informed prior to the vote.
They didnâ€™t know what they were voting for._
I disagree. Brexit is the same as it ever was. People knew the situation. There was plenty of info available and they did know what they were voting for. To suggest otherwise is a little insulting tbh.

All these MPâ€™s cite the above reasons when calling for a second referendum.
However, in the case for a by-election all the above is true.
_The landscape of their constituency has changed _- through their actions.
_People do know more now _- they now know they voted for a candidate who was not true to the manifesto they presented to the electorate.
_They were ill informed prior to the vote _- They thought they were voting for a member of a party when they were actually voting for something quite different.
_They didnâ€™t know what they were voting for _- That is clearly true and is beyond doubt.
The integrity of an MP is paramount. It has great bearing on how well they can do their job. These MPâ€™s cannot argue the case for a second referendum using the above reasoning and yet conveniently ignore it in the case for a second election in their own constituency and expect to keep their integrity. The respect of their electorate depends upon it.
I am afraid this is typical of todayâ€™s politician. They are quite prepared to accept and uphold democracy when it gets them elected but very happy to ignore and even deny it when it goes against them.
There are also fundamental reasons why by-elections should be called and a second referendum cannot.
A by-election causes a bit of uncertainty in a constituency. A second referendum delays Brexit and causes pan-European uncertainty, especially nationally in the UK.
A by-election serves democracy across the whole political spectrum of issues. A second referendum denies democracy on a single binary choice.
A by-election can be organised in weeks. A referendum would take months if not longer.
The impact of a by-election is as nothing compared to the triggering of a second referendum which would call into question Britainâ€™s position as one of the worldâ€™s great democracies. It would go against the very demands we make of other nations.

If these MPâ€™s had the slightest belief they were representing the true will of their constituents they would take action and trigger a by election immediately. The fact that they have failed to do so tells us all we need to know.
		
Click to expand...

Do MEPs count in this integrity argument of yours?
If so Leave hero Farage sits as an MEP for the Brexit Party having gained election whilst representing UKIP who he chose to leave. Should he not face a by-election too? Double standards otherwise.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 23, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Not really.
Those in favour of a second referendum say:
_The landscape of Brexit has changed. People know more now.
They were ill informed prior to the vote.
They didnâ€™t know what they were voting for._
I disagree. Brexit is the same as it ever was. People knew the situation. There was plenty of info available and they did know what they were voting for. To suggest otherwise is a little insulting tbh. 

All these MPâ€™s cite the above reasons when calling for a second referendum.
However, in the case for a by-election all the above is true.
_The landscape of their constituency has changed _- through their actions.
_People do know more now _- they now know they voted for a candidate who was not true to the manifesto they presented to the electorate.
_They were ill informed prior to the vote _- They thought they were voting for a member of a party when they were actually voting for something quite different.
_They didnâ€™t know what they were voting for _- That is clearly true and is beyond doubt.
The integrity of an MP is paramount. It has great bearing on how well they can do their job. These MPâ€™s cannot argue the case for a second referendum using the above reasoning and yet conveniently ignore it in the case for a second election in their own constituency and expect to keep their integrity. The respect of their electorate depends upon it.
I am afraid this is typical of todayâ€™s politician. They are quite prepared to accept and uphold democracy when it gets them elected but very happy to ignore and even deny it when it goes against them.
There are also fundamental reasons why by-elections should be called and a second referendum cannot.
A by-election causes a bit of uncertainty in a constituency. A second referendum delays Brexit and causes pan-European uncertainty, especially nationally in the UK.
A by-election serves democracy across the whole political spectrum of issues. A second referendum denies democracy on a single binary choice.
A by-election can be organised in weeks. A referendum would take months if not longer.
The impact of a by-election is as nothing compared to the triggering of a second referendum which would call into question Britainâ€™s position as one of the worldâ€™s great democracies. It would go against the very demands we make of other nations.

If these MPâ€™s had the slightest belief they were representing the true will of their constituents they would take action and trigger a by election immediately. The fact that they have failed to do so tells us all we need to know.
		
Click to expand...

Christ, you put some effort into replying to a sarcastic comeback!

What are you going to do with your time once brexitâ€™s over and done with?

You need a hobby mate...have you thought about golf?


----------



## Sweep (Feb 23, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Do MEPs count in this integrity argument of yours?
If so Leave hero Farage sits as an MEP for the Brexit Party having gained election whilst representing UKIP who he chose to leave. Should he not face a by-election too? Double standards otherwise.
		
Click to expand...

Of course MEPs count. The difference is obvious. Farage stood on an anti EU manifesto and was duly elected. His policies havenâ€™t changed. His manifesto pledges remain. And oddly, his party changed more than he did. However, I donâ€™t see an issue with having him stand again. I am not sure how by-elections work in the EU Parliament or indeed if they have them. I am sure they must have some mechanism.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 23, 2019)

JamesR said:



			Christ, you put some effort into replying to a sarcastic comeback!

What are you going to do with your time once brexitâ€™s over and done with?

You need a hobby mate...have you thought about golf?
		
Click to expand...

You actually took the time and effort to post this?
Just in case you were unaware, itâ€™s a forum. No-one is forced to post on it and no-one is forced to read it. Hint: If you donâ€™t like it, donâ€™t read it and donâ€™t post. Simples.
Have you considered that the political threads may be for people of a more mature attitude interested in debating political topics of the day, rather than posting childish nonsense that adds nothing to the debate? Maybe you are out of your depth?
Even though your post on the subject was sarcastic and lightweight, the matter being discussed is, to some of us at least, an interesting point about our democratic process, especially when you consider the MPâ€™s concerned stated position on a second EU referendum. Donâ€™t worry, no one expects you to understand.
As for what am I going to do after Brexit. I guess I will post on the political matters of the day, just like I did before Brexit. Safe in the knowledge I donâ€™t need your permission.
Now, run along and let the grown ups have a chat.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 23, 2019)

Sweep said:



			You actually took the time and effort to post this?
Just in case you were unaware, itâ€™s a forum. No-one is forced to post on it and no-one is forced to read it. Hint: If you donâ€™t like it, donâ€™t read it and donâ€™t post. Simples.
Have you considered that the political threads may be for people of a more mature attitude interested in debating political topics of the day, rather than posting childish nonsense that adds nothing to the debate? Maybe you are out of your depth?
Even though your post on the subject was sarcastic and lightweight, the matter being discussed is, to some of us at least, an interesting point about our democratic process, especially when you consider the MPâ€™s concerned stated position on a second EU referendum. Donâ€™t worry, no one expects you to understand.
As for what am I going to do after Brexit. I guess I will post on the political matters of the day, just like I did before Brexit. Safe in the knowledge I donâ€™t need your permission.
Now, run along and let the grown ups have a chat.
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ˜˜


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 23, 2019)

JamesR said:



			ðŸ˜˜
		
Click to expand...

Is that all you have


----------



## JamesR (Feb 23, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Is that all you have
		
Click to expand...

ðŸ¥°


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 23, 2019)

JamesR said:



			ðŸ¥°
		
Click to expand...

ðŸš®


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 25, 2019)

How  far to the left has the Labour Party swung?

I have just seen Deputy Leader Tom Watson described as "moderate"!


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			How  far to the left has the Labour Party swung?

I have just seen Deputy Leader Tom Watson described as "moderate"!
		
Click to expand...

He is also starting a sub group within the Labour Party to get away from the activities of Momentum and the Marxist left of Labour. Looks like both parties heading for a big split.

People may not believe in Brexit but it might, at last, sort our political parties out.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			How  far to the left has the Labour Party swung?

I have just seen Deputy Leader Tom Watson described as "moderate"!
		
Click to expand...

The Nonce Finder General.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2019)

So on the pretence that we have X number of by elections because they have left there party and manifestos which helped them get into Parliment.
1, Do we have another general election coz Dave Cameron chucked his teddy out of the window when we voted for Brexit. W nee er voted for T may we voted for Cameron to carry this through.
2, How can Jeremy Corbyn spout off about his members jumping ship when they got voted in on a labour manifesto. His members voted in favour of  " no confidence " in him yet he choose to ignore it.

What all this tells me is that when it suits, a majority vote suits, when it don't, it don't.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			So on the pretence that we have X number of by elections because they have left there party and manifestos which helped them get into Parliment.
1, Do we have another general election coz Dave Cameron chucked his teddy out of the window when we voted for Brexit. W nee er voted for T may we voted for Cameron to carry this through.
2, How can Jeremy Corbyn spout off about his members jumping ship when they got voted in on a labour manifesto. His members voted in favour of  " no confidence " in him yet he choose to ignore it.

What all this tells me is that when it suits, a majority vote suits, when it don't, it don't.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry mate, youâ€™re adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

Diferent rules cover those scenarios.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Sorry mate, youâ€™re adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

Diferent rules cover those scenarios.
		
Click to expand...

Those  differant scenarios are what I am on about, why do we give any serious thought to Corbyns comments or credibility when he has already ignored one vote. Coz it suited him.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			So on the pretence that we have X number of by elections because they have left there party and manifestos which helped them get into Parliment.
1, Do we have another general election coz Dave Cameron chucked his teddy out of the window when we voted for Brexit. W nee er voted for T may we voted for Cameron to carry this through.
2, How can Jeremy Corbyn spout off about his members jumping ship when they got voted in on a labour manifesto. His members voted in favour of  " no confidence " in him yet he choose to ignore it.

What all this tells me is that when it suits, a majority vote suits, when it don't, it don't.
		
Click to expand...

Its not the same Tashy.  We dont vote for a prime minister in an election, we only vote for a local prospective MP.  The Party that becomes the government decide who they want to be Prime Minister.  Theresa May's party did win the last election with her as PM.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 25, 2019)

MetalMickie said:



			How  far to the left has the Labour Party swung?

I have just seen Deputy Leader Tom Watson described as "moderate"!
		
Click to expand...

Compared to Rees-Moggy he is.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Those  differant scenarios are what I am on about, why do we give any serious thought to Corbyns comments or credibility when he has already ignored one vote. Coz it suited him.
		
Click to expand...

Because MPâ€™s are the only one the public have a say in.

When Corbyn lost the confidence vote he re-stood as a candidate in the leadership battle and won the vote.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 25, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Compared to Rees-Moggy he is.

Click to expand...

What the hell has Rees -Mogg got to do with a discussion on the Labour Party?


----------



## Fade and Die (Feb 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Those  differant scenarios are what I am on about, why do we give any serious thought to Corbyns comments or credibility when *he has already ignored one vote*. Coz it suited him.
		
Click to expand...


Have you not noticed theres a lot of that going on lately?


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Have you not noticed theres a lot of that going on lately?
		
Click to expand...

I have. Thats why i am mentioning it. In whatever guise it seems being democratic is an inconvenience.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Have you not noticed theres a lot of that going on lately?
		
Click to expand...

No he didnâ€™t, Iâ€™ve just proved Tashy got that one wrong!


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No he didnâ€™t, Iâ€™ve just proved Tashy got that one wrong!
		
Click to expand...

Or educated tashy that he didnt know the democratic procedure. ðŸ‘ðŸ˜˜


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Or educated tashy that he didnt know the democratic procedure. ðŸ‘ðŸ˜˜
		
Click to expand...

Hence my surprise to your reply to F&Dâ€™s post.


----------



## Tashyboy (Feb 25, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Hence my surprise to your reply to F&Dâ€™s post.

Click to expand...

ðŸ˜³ðŸ˜‚ðŸ‘


----------



## IanM (Feb 25, 2019)

Hezbollah to be outlawed in UK.

The leader of HM Opposition referred to them as "our friends..."   how we laughed


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 25, 2019)

Probably laughed just as hard when our friend Mandella was called a terrorist.

Oh look, weâ€™ve both added nothing to the thread.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Probably laughed just as hard when our friend Mandella was called a terrorist.

Oh look, weâ€™ve both added nothing to the thread.

Click to expand...

Except this is a thread on the Labour Party. Excusing a politicianâ€™s mistakes by just saying the others are as bad is not good enough. Two wrongs donâ€™t make a right and donâ€™t lead to us being served well by our elected representatives.
As much as you would like to pretend it doesnâ€™t matter, Corbynâ€™s cosying up to terrorist organisations is a serious matter. It mattered when he was an MP. It certainly matters now he is Leader of the Opposition, because we face the possibility of having a PM with these views. How would we then stand in fighting terror? How would you feel about the UK with Corbyn as PM if you were Israeli? Is that the country we want to be?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

Sweep said:



			Except this is a thread on the Labour Party. Excusing a politicianâ€™s mistakes by just saying the others are as bad is not good enough. Two wrongs donâ€™t make a right and donâ€™t lead to us being served well by our elected representatives.
As much as you would like to pretend it doesnâ€™t matter, Corbynâ€™s cosying up to terrorist organisations is a serious matter. It mattered when he was an MP. It certainly matters now he is Leader of the Opposition, because we face the possibility of having a PM with these views. How would we then stand in fighting terror? How would you feel about the UK with Corbyn as PM if you were Israeli? Is that the country we want to be?
		
Click to expand...

Who cares what Israel thinks, not exactly putting Britain first is it.

Israel isnâ€™t the best example or should we forget the British soldiers killed by the Israeli terrorists when it was Palestine or once again letâ€™s have double standards.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Who cares what Israel thinks, not exactly putting Britain first is it.

Israel isnâ€™t the best example or should we forget the British soldiers killed by the Israeli terrorists when it was Palestine or once again letâ€™s have double standards.
		
Click to expand...

There you go again. Itâ€™s your only defence. Others are as bad so two wrongs make a right. 
They donâ€™t.
So that is the kind of country you want us to be? 
For the many not the Jew?
What about Israelis living in Britain? Do they count at all?
So, no point playing a part in Middle East peace efforts? Just leave that to other, more peaceful, tolerant nations?
Britain, the terrorist sympathisers? Thatâ€™s really OK with you? That is the kind of leadership you want?
I have to say, I am surprised.


----------



## Crazyface (Feb 26, 2019)

One another note, Corbin has now said he wants a second vote. what an utter chancer this clown is!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

Sweep said:



			There you go again. Itâ€™s your only defence. Others are as bad so two wrongs make a right.
They donâ€™t.
So that is the kind of country you want us to be?
For the many not the Jew?
What about Israelis living in Britain? Do they count at all?
So, no point playing a part in Middle East peace efforts? Just leave that to other, more peaceful, tolerant nations?
Britain, the terrorist sympathisers? Thatâ€™s really OK with you? That is the kind of leadership you want?
I have to say, I am surprised.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m only responding in kind, you do know we currently sell arms to many regimeâ€™s others consider as state sponsors of terrorism.

Nobody ever disagrees with Corbynâ€™s policies or the Labour Manifesto, ie, stronger defence, more trade with the rest of the world, looking after our people.
We have more food banks, NHS in crisis, DWP in a mess, then we have Brexit, but letâ€™s ignore all that Corbyn is bad.

Are we doing Israel any favours by supporting the Saudi Government.

The tories are not whiter than white, anyone remember the convicted IRA member they elected as a local councillor?


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

Crazyface said:



			One another note, Corbin has now said he wants a second vote. what an utter chancer this clown is!
		
Click to expand...

No he hasnâ€™t, try reading what heâ€™s actually said!


----------



## Sweep (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Iâ€™m only responding in kind, you do know we currently sell arms to many regimeâ€™s others consider as state sponsors of terrorism.

Nobody ever disagrees with Corbynâ€™s policies or the Labour Manifesto, ie, stronger defence, more trade with the rest of the world, looking after our people.
We have more food banks, NHS in crisis, DWP in a mess, then we have Brexit, but letâ€™s ignore all that Corbyn is bad.

Are we doing Israel any favours by supporting the Saudi Government.

The tories are not whiter than white, anyone remember the convicted IRA member they elected as a local councillor?
		
Click to expand...

You see?
Again, this is a thread on the Labour Party. We have had plenty of threads on the others. Can you not support Corbyn and Labour policy and actions without pointing the finger at others?
So go on. Defend his cosying up to terrorists without mentioning any other parties or their politicians.
If you are struggling that should tell you all you need to know.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			No he hasnâ€™t, try reading what heâ€™s actually said!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair I had to point out to you what he actually said in the brexit thread.


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2019)

Sweep said:



			You see?
Again, this is a thread on the Labour Party. We have had plenty of threads on the others. Can you not support Corbyn and Labour policy and actions without pointing the finger at others?
So go on. Defend his cosying up to terrorists without mentioning any other parties or their politicians.
If you are struggling that should tell you all you need to know.
		
Click to expand...

sorry but this cosying up to terrorists crap needs to be reigned in by the media and corbyns critics

thatcher was meeting with the IRA and their leaders at the same time she was just smart enough to do it behind closed doors 

that said as a big labour fan I find corbyn too weak to be a leader


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Feb 26, 2019)

She wasn't meeting with the IRA, she was lucky to avoid being blown up by them in Brighton.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

Pathetic Shark said:



			She wasn't meeting with the IRA, she was lucky to avoid being blown up by them in Brighton.
		
Click to expand...

Margaret Thatcher 'negotiated with IRA' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16366413


----------



## Pathetic Shark (Feb 26, 2019)

I was making a reference to the bombing.    But you're right - this is a slagging-off Corbyn thread.


----------



## drdel (Feb 26, 2019)

We should have deep concerns when the security services say that Corbyn, the leader of the UK's Opposition party, would not pass the developed vetting process that all senior staff undergo and so would not be cleared to see sensitive material !!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

drdel said:



			We should have deep concerns when the security services say that Corbyn, the leader of the UK's Opposition party, would not pass the developed vetting process that all senior staff undergo and so would not be cleared to see sensitive material !!
		
Click to expand...

That may or may not be true, but personally Iâ€™d be questioning the integrity of the person within the security services that is divulging such information.


----------



## drdel (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			That may or may not be true, but personally Iâ€™d be questioning the integrity of the person within the security services that is divulging such information.
		
Click to expand...

Sir Richard Dearlove


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			sorry but this cosying up to terrorists crap needs to be reigned in by the media and corbyns critics

thatcher was meeting with the IRA and their leaders at the same time she was just smart enough to do it behind closed doors

that said as a big labour fan I find corbyn too weak to be a leader
		
Click to expand...

â€œJaw jaw not war warâ€
I believe a past politician, kind of popular fellow, said that!?!


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Margaret Thatcher 'negotiated with IRA' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16366413

Click to expand...

But at the time of his meetings Corbyn was not in a position to negotiate with these organisations. 

All he could do was offer them support.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 26, 2019)

Pathetic Shark said:



			She wasn't meeting with the IRA, she was lucky to avoid being blown up by them in Brighton.
		
Click to expand...

About a week before Corbyn invited them to the HoC


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			That may or may not be true, but personally Iâ€™d be questioning the integrity of the person within the security services that is divulging such information.
		
Click to expand...

True but if I'd done and been to places he's been, my PV would have gone straight out the window and he could soon be in a position where it could really matter.


----------



## Sweep (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			Margaret Thatcher 'negotiated with IRA' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16366413

Click to expand...

You will be hailing the Good Friday Agreement next. Wasnâ€™t that John Major and then Tony Blair negotiating with the IRA? 
This was not cosying up and supporting them from the back benches like Corbyn was doing. This was trying to bring peace to NI. Both sides making unpalatable and difficult compromises to reach that end goal. 
This is a world away from what Corbyn has been doing and you know it.
And I note you STILL canâ€™t defend him without mentioning another party or politician. You can only work on â€œtwo wrongs make a rightâ€.
What he has been doing is indefensible. You know it because you canâ€™t defend it.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			True but if I'd done and been to places he's been, my PV would have gone straight out the window and he could soon be in a position where it could really matter.
		
Click to expand...

But like you I thought the vetting process was between the individual and the employer, not by someone in a newspaper after heâ€™s retired!


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

Sweep said:



			You will be hailing the Good Friday Agreement next. Wasnâ€™t that John Major and then Tony Blair negotiating with the IRA?
This was not cosying up and supporting them from the back benches like Corbyn was doing. This was trying to bring peace to NI. Both sides making unpalatable and difficult compromises to reach that end goal.
This is a world away from what Corbyn has been doing and you know it.
And I note you STILL canâ€™t defend him without mentioning another party or politician. You can only work on â€œtwo wrongs make a rightâ€.
What he has been doing is indefensible. You know it because you canâ€™t defend it.
		
Click to expand...

I wonâ€™t try and defend it because unlike you I donâ€™t believe everything I read in the newspapers.

I remember when the tory supporters thought it would be hilarious to become members of the Labour Party so they could vote for Corbyn in the Labour leadership election, now the same ones are worried he could win a GE, I wonder if theyâ€™re still laughing.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			I wonâ€™t try and defend it because unlike you I donâ€™t believe everything I read in the newspapers.

I remember when the tory supporters thought it would be hilarious to become members of the Labour Party so they could vote for Corbyn in the Labour leadership election, now the same ones are worried he could win a GE, I wonder if theyâ€™re still laughing.
		
Click to expand...

I remember that, I also remember the names of the posters on here who thought it was 'hilarious' and said that they had paid their Â£3
I wonder if they also remember


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 26, 2019)

Rumours are Owen Jones will be s standing to become MP


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 26, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I remember that, I also remember the names of the posters on here who thought it was 'hilarious' and said that they had paid their Â£3
I wonder if they also remember

Click to expand...

Yep and I still don't think he will be leader of a Labour Party in government


----------



## IanM (Feb 26, 2019)

Prime Minister talking to people, not much different to a back bencher with no mandate eh?  

Mrs T didnt attend any memorials either...


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 26, 2019)

Sweep said:



			You will be hailing the Good Friday Agreement next. Wasnâ€™t that John Major and then Tony Blair negotiating with the IRA?
This was not cosying up and supporting them from the back benches like Corbyn was doing. This was trying to bring peace to NI. Both sides making unpalatable and difficult compromises to reach that end goal.
This is a world away from what Corbyn has been doing and you know it.
And I note you STILL canâ€™t defend him without mentioning another party or politician. You can only work on â€œtwo wrongs make a rightâ€.
What he has been doing is indefensible. You know it because you canâ€™t defend it.
		
Click to expand...

How on earth can you defend someone without comparing to someone else or something else to try and rationalise the situation? Iâ€™m sorry but you are loading the question to make it impossible to answer

Maybe you should run for parliament because you make it impossible to come back without the answering being deemed wrong by weighted questions.


----------



## drdel (Feb 26, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			But like you I thought the vetting process was between the individual and the employer, not by someone in a newspaper after heâ€™s retired!
		
Click to expand...

If you sign the official secrets act it is for life.


----------



## Deleted member 16999 (Feb 26, 2019)

drdel said:



			If you sign the official secrets act it is for life.
		
Click to expand...

So given his past, why was it alright for him to do a newspaper interview and raise his concerns, shouldnâ€™t the security services remain impartial and brief in private.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			How on earth can you defend someone without comparing to someone else or something else to try and rationalise the situation? Iâ€™m sorry but you are loading the question to make it impossible to answer

Maybe you should run for parliament because you make it impossible to come back without the answering being deemed wrong by weighted questions.
		
Click to expand...

Corbyns like a snake.


----------



## oxymoron (Feb 27, 2019)

The way the Labour party is going soon it should use its proper name - Momentum, seeing as they look like they are pulling all the strings .Perhaps then someone could form a breakaway actual Labour party like we had in the past (if there can ever be a return to that ) then at least we will know who is who .


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

pauldj42 said:



			So given his past, why was it alright for him to do a newspaper interview and raise his concerns, shouldnâ€™t the security services remain impartial and brief in private.
		
Click to expand...

Unfortunately our intelligence agencies seem to have their own agend at times.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Corbyns like a snake.
		
Click to expand...

He's a weak individual who now has surrounded himself with some of the nastiest people in Parliament. I wonder how long before Watson and his sub party jump ship.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 27, 2019)

Not a Corbyn supporter by any means, but some of the arguments used against him on hear seem to be coming straight out of the UKIP song book.


----------



## IanM (Feb 27, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not a Corbyn supporter by any means, but some of the arguments used against him on hear seem to be coming straight out of the UKIP song book.
		
Click to expand...

such as?


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Sweep said:



			You will be hailing the Good Friday Agreement next. Wasnâ€™t that John Major and then Tony Blair negotiating with the IRA?
This was not cosying up and supporting them from the back benches like Corbyn was doing. This was trying to bring peace to NI. Both sides making unpalatable and difficult compromises to reach that end goal.
*This is a world away from what Corbyn has been doing and you know it*.
And I note you STILL canâ€™t defend him without mentioning another party or politician. You can only work on â€œtwo wrongs make a rightâ€.
What he has been doing is indefensible. You know it because you canâ€™t defend it.
		
Click to expand...

Some examples please - or are you simply 'going with the propaganda'?!

This article is worth a read for a bit of impartial comment! https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyn-on-northern-ireland


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

IanM said:



			such as?
		
Click to expand...

If ever he's after a wind up he starts his UKIP nonsense which is a bit like kettle and pot with his ultra nationalist views.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Some examples please - or are you simply 'going with the propaganda'?!

This article is worth a read for a bit of impartial comment! https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyn-on-northern-ireland

Click to expand...

Interesting but he was always willing to show up at IRA funerals and getting his photo in the media but never once have I seen any evidence of him appearing at any member of the forces funeral to offer his support.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Interesting but he was always willing to show up at IRA funerals and getting his photo in the media but never once have I seen any evidence of him appearing at any member of the forces funeral to offer his support.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe you read 'the wrong' papers!


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Maybe you read 'the wrong' papers!
		
Click to expand...

Any information received from the sun should be Held up against the beano because itâ€™s all bullocks

A paper that has been selling at a loss for like 30 years only kept going because they like to control the country with false stories and corrupt views.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Maybe you read 'the wrong' papers!
		
Click to expand...


Perhaps you can point me in the direction of the right paper then and we can see how/that he supports our Armd Forces.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Interesting but he was always willing to show up at IRA funerals and getting his photo in the media but never once have I seen any evidence of him appearing at any member of the forces funeral to offer his support.
		
Click to expand...

I genuinely don't know if he has attended forces funerals but I would not base my opinion on what the written press choose to show. Corbyn attending a forces funeral does not fit the picture they want to paint so they are unlikely to show that. Him meeting with certain organisations does fit with their portrayal so they keep bringing those pictures out. The written press, tabloid in particular can not be trusted on that front. Once they have an agenda, whoever the politician or person, they rarely deviate from that path.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

I personally think he had an agenda and he used the media to establish it. For someone who made a career out of voting against the Labour Party I find it strange he never had the courage to form his own Marxist party. Correction, he has, it's called Momentum.


----------



## IanM (Feb 27, 2019)

Does the word "Fact" in a URL make it so?


----------



## chrisd (Feb 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I genuinely don't know if he has attended forces funerals but I would not base my opinion on what the written press choose to show. Corbyn attending a forces funeral does not fit the picture they want to paint so they are unlikely to show that. Him meeting with certain organisations does fit with their portrayal so they keep bringing those pictures out. The written press, tabloid in particular can not be trusted on that front. Once they have an agenda, whoever the politician or person, they rarely deviate from that path.
		
Click to expand...

Or perhaps Old Skier is absolutely  right ðŸ‘


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Perhaps you can point me in the direction of the right paper then and we can see how/that *he supports our Armd Forces*.
		
Click to expand...

Google is your friend!

https://www.forces.net/news/corbyn-military-needs-more-ships-aircraft-funding-personnel

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ance-day-armistice-ww1-cenotaph-a8626381.html

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/business/jeremy-corbyn-how-intend-protect-1447266

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...my-corbyn-vows-end-scourge-ex-troops-sleeping

Maybe you just don't bother looking any further than the papers that reinforce your own opinion!!

Oh, and for the record/FWIW, I detest Corbyn! But I'd sooner make the decision to detest him for myself than have it foisted upon me by some propagandist newspaper!


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Google is your friend!

https://www.forces.net/news/corbyn-military-needs-more-ships-aircraft-funding-personnel

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ance-day-armistice-ww1-cenotaph-a8626381.html

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/business/jeremy-corbyn-how-intend-protect-1447266

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...my-corbyn-vows-end-scourge-ex-troops-sleeping

Maybe you just don't bother looking any further than the papers that reinforce your own opinion!!
		
Click to expand...

Nobody likes to listen to reason and fact when they are so against something


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			Nobody likes to listen to reason and fact when they are so against something
		
Click to expand...

So true!

Note the edit I made - last para!


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			So true!

Note the edit I made - last para!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed I am no fan of jezza I donâ€™t think heâ€™s a leader but people just throw rubbish at him because they read it in the toilet paper .. I mean sun


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 27, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Or perhaps Old Skier is absolutely  right ðŸ‘
		
Click to expand...

He could be, no question. I just don't trust the press on this, they have form.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Plenty more internal strife going on today!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47393626

Should have happened ages ago imo. The actual justification/incident doesn't truly justify the action imo, except on a 'totting up' basis. Good decision anyway!


----------



## chrisd (Feb 27, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He could be, no question. I just don't trust the press on this, they have form.
		
Click to expand...

I agree that the press are pretty awful but I have never seen Corbyn refute stories about the IRA etc etc and hes got a bad bad reputation even in the Labour Party regarding anti semitism and the like so, on balance, I reckon Old Skier has a fair right to make his judgement accordingly as, like us all, whst the media say is pretty much all he has to go on


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Google is your friend!

https://www.forces.net/news/corbyn-military-needs-more-ships-aircraft-funding-personnel

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ance-day-armistice-ww1-cenotaph-a8626381.html

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/business/jeremy-corbyn-how-intend-protect-1447266

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...my-corbyn-vows-end-scourge-ex-troops-sleeping

Maybe you just don't bother looking any further than the papers that reinforce your own opinion!!

Oh, and for the record/FWIW, I detest Corbyn! But I'd sooner make the decision to detest him for myself than have it foisted upon me by some propagandist newspaper!
		
Click to expand...


Keep googling and answer #189


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

I declare an interest, 4 trips between the 70-90,s may effect my judgment against anyone that has openly marched, supported and attended IRA functions and funerals. His open support to the terrorist's in the Middle East may also affect my judgement for which I don't apologise.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Google is your friend!

https://www.forces.net/news/corbyn-military-needs-more-ships-aircraft-funding-personnel

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ance-day-armistice-ww1-cenotaph-a8626381.html

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/business/jeremy-corbyn-how-intend-protect-1447266

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...my-corbyn-vows-end-scourge-ex-troops-sleeping

Maybe you just don't bother looking any further than the papers that reinforce your own opinion!!

Oh, and for the record/FWIW, I detest Corbyn! But I'd sooner make the decision to detest him for myself than have it foisted upon me by some propagandist newspaper!
		
Click to expand...

Crocadile tears come to mind. We know that nothing Jeremy says can be relied on, his values seem available to whatever is of use to project his political career .


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Plenty more internal strife going on today!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47393626

Should have happened ages ago imo. The actual justification/incident doesn't truly justify the action imo, except on a 'totting up' basis. Good decision anyway!
		
Click to expand...

One of Momentums main bully boys who the soft left of labour have been openly hostile to.


----------



## drdel (Feb 27, 2019)

So far the UK has managed to walk the narrow path of public demonstrations and freedom of expression without developing anarchy. I fear Momentum and its cohorts seriously risk tipping the balance that would see us down the same dangerous route that France has descended


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Keep googling and answer #189
		
Click to expand...

I think the links I provided also answer that!


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			I declare an interest, 4 trips between the 70-90,s may effect my judgment against anyone that has openly marched, supported and attended IRA functions and funerals. His open support to the terrorist's in the Middle East may also affect my judgement for which I don't apologise.
		
Click to expand...




SocketRocket said:



			Crocadile tears come to mind. We know that nothing Jeremy says can be relied on, his values seem available to whatever is of use to project his political career .
		
Click to expand...

I'd have a lot more respect for your views if you could actually spell!

But hey-ho!


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			I think the links I provided also answer that!
		
Click to expand...

Think again


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			I'd have a lot more respect for your views if you could actually spell!

But hey-ho!
		
Click to expand...

I don't need your respect if it requires a spelling test to get it.


----------



## chrisd (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			I'd have a lot more respect for your views if you could actually spell!

But hey-ho!
		
Click to expand...

Unbelievable !


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Think again
		
Click to expand...

Matthew 13:13


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Matthew 13:13
		
Click to expand...

Speak however you like but while your using a keyboard #189 if you can.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Speak however you like but while your using a keyboard #189 if you can.
		
Click to expand...

#209! And #197!


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			I'd have a lot more respect for your views if you could actually spell!

But hey-ho!
		
Click to expand...

You really are a sad little man at times. Your immature attempt to belittle by picking up on typos is beneath your intellect.

But hey-ho!


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			You really are a sad little man at times. Your immature attempt to belittle by picking up on typos is beneath your intellect.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment!


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Feb 27, 2019)

If you want the thread closed feel free to continue with the handbags. 

Final warning gents


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			If you want the thread closed feel free to continue with the handbags.

Final warning gents
		
Click to expand...

Needs closing, obviously to many spelling mistakes @PhilTheFragger


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			#209! And #197!
		
Click to expand...


Nope, can't see anything about funeral attendance. Represent in your own time.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Nope, can't see anything about funeral attendance. Represent in your own time.
		
Click to expand...

I believe I answered the question you posed in #192 in #197!

If you can't accept that, then that's your problem, not mine!


----------



## pauljames87 (Feb 27, 2019)

This is just sounding like a round of prime ministers questions


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 27, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			This is just sounding like a round of prime ministers questions
		
Click to expand...

Agreed, the man only answers the questions he wants to. Never mind, he's enjoying himself being the duty grammar cop.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Agreed, *the man only answers the questions he wants to*. Never mind, he's enjoying himself being the duty grammar cop.
		
Click to expand...

I repeat!

I believe I answered the question you posed in #192 in #197!

If you can't accept that, then that's your problem, not mine!

*Btw*. Luke 4:23


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 28, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			I repeat!

I believe I answered the question you posed in #192 in #197!

If you can't accept that, then that's your problem, not mine!

*Btw*. Luke 4:23
		
Click to expand...

I you believe it, it must be right.

Sorry your poorly,  take the nurses advice, take the laxatives and you'll be fine.


----------



## Wilson (Feb 28, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			He's a weak individual who now has surrounded himself with some of the nastiest people in Parliament. I wonder how long before Watson and his sub party jump ship.
		
Click to expand...

I donâ€™t think itâ€™s far off, Watson is all of a sudden very vocal on the whole AS issue, heâ€™s doing a lot of media that appears to me to be trying to set himself apart from JC - either heâ€™s about to jump ship, or make a play to take over on the basis JCâ€™s lost control of the party.


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 28, 2019)

Not just JC, JM as well

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...ll/news/102159/watch-labour-mps-confront-john


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Feb 28, 2019)

The sniping stops here please, 2 infractions have been handed out.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 28, 2019)

Old Skier said:



			Needs closing, obviously to many spelling mistakes @PhilTheFragger

Click to expand...

I think you'll find that it should be "too" many spelling mistakes. 


Sorry OS and Phil - it was just too good an opportunity to miss.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 28, 2019)

Wilson said:



			I donâ€™t think itâ€™s far off, Watson is all of a sudden very vocal on the whole AS issue, heâ€™s doing a lot of media that appears to me to be trying to set himself apart from JC - either heâ€™s about to jump ship, or make a play to take over on the basis JCâ€™s lost control of the party.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he's about to swap his Nonce Finder General's Hat for an Anti-Semite Finder General's hat.


----------



## Sweep (Mar 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			How on earth can you defend someone without comparing to someone else or something else to try and rationalise the situation? Iâ€™m sorry but you are loading the question to make it impossible to answer

Maybe you should run for parliament because you make it impossible to come back without the answering being deemed wrong by weighted questions.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment ðŸ˜€
Itâ€™s quite simple. I am just asking you to defend his policies, not criticise others. If a policy or action is valid, surely it can stand on its own merits. Personally I expect more from the Leader of the Opposition than just being not quite as bad as some other people. 
If it was a good idea to meet and support terrorists- which he did. It actually happened. Itâ€™s on film - then say so and why it was a good idea. If it wasnâ€™t then say so and condemn it.


----------



## Sweep (Mar 1, 2019)

pauljames87 said:



			How on earth can you defend someone without comparing to someone else or something else to try and rationalise the situation? Iâ€™m sorry but you are loading the question to make it impossible to answer

Maybe you should run for parliament because you make it impossible to come back without the answering being deemed wrong by weighted questions.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment ðŸ˜€
Itâ€™s quite simple. I am just asking you to defend his policies, not criticise others. If a policy or action is valid, surely it can stand on its own merits. Personally I expect more from the Leader of the Opposition than just being not quite as bad as some other people. 
If it was a good idea to meet and support terrorists- which he did. It actually happened. Itâ€™s on film - then say so and why it was a good idea. If it wasnâ€™t then say so and condemn it.


----------



## spongebob59 (Mar 7, 2019)

Labour Party spokesperson â€œWe completely reject any suggestion the party has acted unlawfully and will be cooperating fully with the EHRC. "Labour is fully committed to the support, defence and celebration of the Jewish community and its organisations."


----------



## IanM (Mar 7, 2019)

Momentum in the dock now too.

Chickens coiming home....


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 8, 2019)

Latest Scottish Westminster poll has the Scottish Labour party at 1 [one] seat.
SNP at 41 seats.


----------



## Tashyboy (Mar 8, 2019)

PhilTheFragger said:



			The sniping stops here please, 2 infractions have been handed out.
		
Click to expand...

Think mine must of ended up in Junk mail, I cannot find it ðŸ˜ðŸ‘


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 8, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Latest Scottish Westminster poll has the Scottish Labour party at 1 [one] seat.
SNP at 41 seats.
		
Click to expand...

Who cares


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 8, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Latest Scottish Westminster poll has the Scottish Labour party at 1 [one] seat.
SNP at 41 seats.
		
Click to expand...

So Conservatives stay at present number (13).

It's only when the above number changes that 'real' change is likely to happen. Until then, it's only another example of 'Scotland's historic problem' - being too busy fighting amongst themselves to unite against the 'real enemy'!


----------



## User62651 (Mar 8, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Latest Scottish Westminster poll has the Scottish Labour party at 1 [one] seat.
SNP at 41 seats.
		
Click to expand...

Trouble is that low number of Labour seats up here, if forecast correct, pretty much ensures a Tory UK Govt no matter how badly May and co. perform as much of rural England votes blue no matter what. Labour had 56 Scottish seats only 20 years ago (before boundary changes and less MPs). 
Another Indyref wont be permitted in the short term by UK govt so why do SNP voters not get tactical - back SNP in Holyrood elections and back Labour in UK elections?  Too much hatred of Scottish Labour?

Of course if SNP get 41 seats of 59 (69%) at next GE on the basis of 45% overall support (current polling) for their core rasion d'etre that's taking advantage of first past the post system, they'll make themselves heard as 3rd party in commons, but in reality are fairly powerless.

Voting SNP in UK General elections seems like a wasted vote at the moment if you want rid of the Conservatives. Just ends up a protest party in Westminster.

Labour look finished presently everywhere, leadership is weak, policy is confusing, infighting and losing MPs in commons and that summer 2017 Corbyn bubble has truly popped. 

They need new leadership at UK level and Scotland back for a realistic go at winning a GE. Neither look likely.


----------



## drdel (Mar 8, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			Labour Party spokesperson â€œWe completely reject any suggestion the party has acted unlawfully and will be cooperating fully with the EHRC. "Labour is fully committed to the support, defence and celebration of the Jewish community and its organisations."
		
Click to expand...

They will be cooperating with an organisation they have requested is disbanded. 

Most of those 'close' to JC seems to be friends or family members of a small London clan with a communist leaning and more remote than ever from Labour voters. Bad for UK politics.


----------



## IanM (Mar 8, 2019)

Ah for likes of Barbara Castle, Tony Benn, John Smith.  

Mind you, you can say similar about all the Parties at the mo.


----------



## IanM (Mar 8, 2019)

Check out @AaranMcDonaldâ€™s Tweet: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1103955733022998529

Just saw this on Twitter.  Therin lies the issue... I didnt know the Morning Star was still being sold!   Extremist Parties tend not to prosper


----------

