# F1 Restart



## bobmac (Jun 3, 2020)

For those interested....
First race next month
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52883244 

I wonder if Vettel will make an appearance


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## The Autumn Wind (Jun 3, 2020)

I’m looking forward to the F1 season. Why wouldn’t Vettel make an appearance? Isn’t he still contracted to Ferrari this year ?


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## bobmac (Jun 3, 2020)

The Autumn Wind said:



			I’m looking forward to the F1 season. Why wouldn’t Vettel make an appearance? Isn’t he still contracted to Ferrari this year ?
		
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I believe he is but knowing his contract will not be renewed for next year, he may slope off and let Carlos Sainz do this season.


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## SaintHacker (Jun 3, 2020)

Carlos Sainz who is contracted to Mclaren for the redt of the season?


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## Pathetic Shark (Jun 3, 2020)

IndyCar starts this weekend with a race in Texas - no spectators but at least they are racing again.  Then a three week layoff and then a slightly shortened season with two double-header races including one at Laguna Seca.


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## bobmac (Jun 3, 2020)

I'm more looking forward to see who has the biggest beard, Smiffy, DC, Mark Webber, Eddie Jordan, Steve Jones or Toto Wolfe


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## bobmac (Jun 3, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Carlos Sainz who is contracted to Mclaren for the redt of the season?
		
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Money talks


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## ger147 (Jun 3, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Money talks
		
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Vettel will be in a Ferrari for this year's GP's.


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## Beedee (Jun 3, 2020)

Will be interesting tho. He has nothing to lose with Ferrari, so will be driving for himself rather than the team (even more than usual).  He got to know every strategy decision in the team will be against him, and he's got a new employer to think about.  But if he over-does it, and he probably will, his standing with prospective employers goes down.

From the team's perspective they have to keep him competitive to do as much damage as possible to Mercedes chances, but they really really don't want him beating Le Clerc.  I wonder if the team would go so far as to sabotage him to protect Le Clerc.  They also have to keep him  in the dark with technology improvements throughout the season.  They really won't want to put anything revolutionary on his car that he can then offer to another team.


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## CliveW (Jun 4, 2020)

It's a pity that the Silverstone Classic has been bumped to allow the F1 carnival to race there on 2nd August.


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## Cherry13 (Jun 4, 2020)

Beedee said:



			Will be interesting tho. He has nothing to lose with Ferrari, so will be driving for himself rather than the team (even more than usual).  He got to know every strategy decision in the team will be against him, and he's got a new employer to think about.  But if he over-does it, and he probably will, his standing with prospective employers goes down.

From the team's perspective they have to keep him competitive to do as much damage as possible to Mercedes chances, but they really really don't want him beating Le Clerc.  I wonder if the team would go so far as to sabotage him to protect Le Clerc.  They also have to keep him  in the dark with technology improvements throughout the season.  They really won't want to put anything revolutionary on his car that he can then offer to another team.
		
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I think it'll be interesting to see how motivated he is, i suspect he'll want to go out with a bang, and really go for the championship at all costs.  The team dynamic wont be as clear cut as above.  Improvement wise, they wont likely care what he sees, theres new rules and cars the following season anyway.  As for sabotaging to protect Leclerc, i dont think they will.  They may favour Leclerc in decisions that affect both, such as the car dynamic and driving style, but again they are building on a template of a car that has been in place for many seasons now.  

One of the most often overlooked aspects of F1 is that the drivers championship is meaningless to all but the fans and the driver.  the team doesnt get any additional payment (other than maybe sponsors bonus) for a driver winning the championship, its simply a by-product of good performance.  The ultimate aim is for the team to finish first in the constructors championship... so above all else, that will be Ferraris aim.


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## SaintHacker (Jun 4, 2020)

CliveW said:



			It's a pity that the Silverstone Classic has been bumped to allow the F1 carnival to race there on 2nd August.
		
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Not really surprising though, the Classic is all about people through the turnstiles and not broadcast to billions of tv viewers the world over. 
So glad things are starting to get going again, INdycar starting up (although not really my thing) Le Mans later in the year, hopefully a few more WEC races and the British GT championship pencilled in for a few rounds later in the summer, hopefully once spectators are allowed back in


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## Pathetic Shark (Jun 4, 2020)

Getting back in the mood watching the 2018 Indy 500 -  more over-taking in one lap than there is in an entire Grand Prix.
Another bonus - there are no drivers as big an a-hole as Lewis Hamilton.
Downside - Takuma Sato is still driving - the wild thing.   He goes for gaps that a Moto GP bike would not even go for.


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## cliveb (Jun 4, 2020)

Cherry13 said:



			Improvement wise, they wont likely care what he sees, theres new rules and cars the following season anyway.
		
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The changes have been delayed until 2022, and this year's regulations are carrying over unchanged to 2021.
I suspect Ferrari won't want to let Vettel walk away with too much inside knowledge.


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## Cherry13 (Jun 4, 2020)

cliveb said:



			The changes have been delayed until 2022, and this year's regulations are carrying over unchanged to 2021.
I suspect Ferrari won't want to let Vettel walk away with too much inside knowledge.
		
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I must admit haven’t been following news other than headlines so missed that.  But it happens all the times that drivers move teams, I don’t think they always stop development due to that. 
They’ll give him an equal car at the start, if his performance dictates then they’ll continue to support him up until the point that he can’t win championship.


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## ger147 (Jul 4, 2020)

F1 is back and Mercedes pick up where they left off, 1-2 in today's qualifying.

Ferrari struggling as their car is poor, Vettel out in Q2 and only 7th for Leclerc.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 4, 2020)

Lando Norris reinforcing the great form he showed last year ...


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## bobmac (Jul 4, 2020)

Well, I've just finished watching the qualifying session for the long awaited start of the 2020 season in Austria.
I won't give the results as it might spoil it for those who haven't seen it yet.
But suffice to say it should be a good race tomorrow.
Can't wait


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## SammmeBee (Jul 4, 2020)

I thought first race was Australia?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 4, 2020)

SammmeBee said:



			I thought first race was Australia?
		
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Heard of something called Corona?


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## SammmeBee (Jul 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Heard of something called Corona?
		
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Is a beer I think......COVID-19 and Coronavirus yes I have....I thought you ICU medical practitioners would get the terminology right.   

So it’s close to 🇦🇺 but actually 🇦🇹 ?!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 4, 2020)

SammmeBee said:



			Is a beer I think......COVID-19 and Coronavirus yes I have....I thought you ICU medical practitioners would get the terminology right.  

So it’s close to 🇦🇺 but actually 🇦🇹 ?!
		
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Your trolling efforts are desperate these days. Must try harder


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## SammmeBee (Jul 4, 2020)

So it is Austria but not ICU then?


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## brendy (Jul 4, 2020)

Move on chaps, Australia was to be the first F1 of 2020, it and many others never happened due to being cancelled or postponed. Austria is the start of this year's racing as chronogically it is the first to actually take place.
Life is much easier if you don't take everything absolutely literally.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Your trolling efforts are desperate these days. Must try harder
		
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To be fair your sarcastic reply was pretty unwarranted in the first place

Cracking race today. A shame for Albon, although it looked more of a racing incident to me not sure there was a lot of blame either side. Superb last lap by Lando to get that first podium, and good to see Williams making a bit of progress at long last


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## bobmac (Jul 6, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			To be fair your sarcastic reply was pretty unwarranted in the first place

Cracking race today. A shame for Albon, although it looked more of a racing incident to me not sure there was a lot of blame either side. Superb last lap by Lando to get that first podium, and *good to see Williams making a bit of progress* at long last
		
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Did you mean McLaren?


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## cliveb (Jul 6, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Cracking race today. A shame for Albon, although it looked more of a racing incident to me not sure there was a lot of blame either side.
		
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If Hamilton deserved a penalty for the incident with Albon, then I can't see how Norris got away with punting off Perez.

(And 0/10 to Mercedes for not figuring out how to end up with a 1/2 finish after the penalty)


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## MegaSteve (Jul 6, 2020)

Strange week end and possibly will be even stranger next week end with the 'circus' merely reconvening at the same venue... Believe the race day penalty, for Lewis, was harsh... Leclerc got himself a great result from what have could been a disaster... Seb continues to please... And, my understatement of the week, well pleased for Lando/McClaren…


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## Smiffy (Jul 7, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			Strange week end and possibly will be even stranger next week end with the 'circus' merely reconvening at the same venue... Believe the race day penalty, for Lewis, was harsh... Leclerc got himself a great result from what have could been a disaster... Seb continues to please... And, my understatement of the week, well pleased for Lando/McClaren…
		
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You read it here first................

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/my-prediction-for-f1-this-season.104329/


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## MegaSteve (Jul 7, 2020)

Alonso back next year...


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## ger147 (Jul 7, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			Alonso back next year...
		
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That was the last realistic option for Vettel so he will deffo not be on the 2021 grid.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 7, 2020)

ger147 said:



			That was the last realistic option for Vettel so he will deffo not be on the 2021 grid.
		
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Not sure his heart is in it anymore... Won't be missed by me... Never forgiven him after Multi 21...


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## SteveJay (Jul 7, 2020)

After all his ridiculous pontificating before the race and trying to persuade all the drivers to protest, was glad to see Hamilton get penalised.
Like the guy less and less these days - he should remember the history of his employers and be a bit more humble.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2020)

Absolute stunning performance from Lewis in evil conditions... And, well done to George ...


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 12, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			Absolute stunning performance from Lewis in evil conditions... And, well done to George ...
		
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Exactly. Many may not like LH for various reasons, but it cannot be denied he is the best on the track right now.


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## bobmac (Jul 19, 2020)

They are like buses, you get no races for 7 months and then you get 3 in a fortnight


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## jim8flog (Jul 19, 2020)

bobmac said:



			They are like buses, you get no races for 7 months and then you get 3 in a fortnight  

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 and the first two to come along are not the ones you want to catch.


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## SaintHacker (Jul 19, 2020)

Should have been at Silverstone this weekend.  Oh well, tickets rolled over to next year so might spend what i would have spent on next year going to a European race as well.


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## bobmac (Jul 19, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Should have been at Silverstone this weekend.  Oh well, tickets rolled over to next year so might spend what i would have spent on next year going to a European race as well.
		
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If you do, can you get Angela Cullens autograph please...and maybe her moby number too.


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## ger147 (Jul 19, 2020)

Wet in Hungary today, should make for an exciting race.


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## Reemul (Jul 19, 2020)

Verstappen crashed on the way to the grid


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## SaintHacker (Jul 19, 2020)

Oops 😂😂


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## ger147 (Jul 19, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Verstappen crashed on the way to the grid
		
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Car fixed just in time.

Showtime 😎😎


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## ger147 (Jul 19, 2020)

Hamilton class of the field again, never in any danger. Great drive from Max to hold on to 2nd from Bottas.


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## Reemul (Jul 19, 2020)

Yep, not a great track tbh, procession springs to mind


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## ger147 (Jul 19, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Yep, not a great track tbh, procession springs to mind
		
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Yeah, really hard to overtake in Hungary. Was hoping there would be more rain as that always makes it more interesting.


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## Norrin Radd (Jul 19, 2020)

Damp start to a damp squib of a race ,can't fault Hamilton but can't like him in any any shape or form , he is a bloody good driver but could he do it in another make other than a merc they are so dominant.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 20, 2020)

Norrin Radd said:



			Damp start to a damp squib of a race ,can't fault Hamilton but can't like him in any any shape or form , he is a bloody good driver but could he do it in another make other than a merc they are so dominant.
		
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The record books seem to indicate that when teams are dominant it is in tandem of having the best drivers at the wheel... Lewis has managed, mostly, to better his team mate which is the only real measure we can, from the sidelines, use...


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## SteveW86 (Aug 2, 2020)

Well that livened up towards the end!


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## jim8flog (Aug 2, 2020)

3 wheels on my wagon and I'll keep rolling on.


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## Robster59 (Aug 2, 2020)

I bet Red Bull were sorry they went for the extra point with Verstappen.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 2, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			I bet Red Bull were sorry they went for the extra point with Verstappen.
		
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I don't neccessarily agree, as I think they could well have been in the same boat  when you think that they all ( JS, the Merc's and Sainz) all pitted for hard tyres at the same time.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 2, 2020)

Interesting race especially the end. Could Bottas have done more to try and take the lead into turn one? I assume he was trying to avoid a racing incident especially with a team mate but thought he backed off a tad early


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## Mudball (Aug 2, 2020)

Did not realise that Kwik Fit was now sponsoring the F1...


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## Smiffy (Aug 3, 2020)




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## bobmac (Aug 5, 2020)

Did anyone else think Vettel looked lonely in the pit/garage? Nobody seemed to want to talk to him.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 5, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Did anyone else think Vettel looked lonely in the pit/garage? Nobody seemed to want to talk to him.
		
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Is it any wonder. He is leaving the team at the end of this season, and is being outdriven by his much younger and less expierienced team-mate.


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## bobmac (Aug 5, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Is it any wonder. He is leaving the team at the end of this season, and is being outdriven by his much younger and less expierienced team-mate.
		
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I know that, but in his interview, he said he still got on well with the team.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 5, 2020)

bobmac said:



			I know that, but in his interview, he said he still got on well with the team.
		
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Vettel has always thought more himself than those around him


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## bobmac (Aug 16, 2020)

I hope Claire Williams OBE holds her own umbrella this week when she's interviewed.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 21, 2020)

Seems Williams have been sold...


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## bobmac (Aug 21, 2020)

MegaSteve said:



			Seems Williams have been sold...
		
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I hope the buyer has deep pockets


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## SaintHacker (Aug 22, 2020)

bobmac said:



			I hope the buyer has deep pockets
		
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It appears they do. Sad for Williams to lose that identity as a family owned team, but its clear that the way the sport is that model is just not sustainable. The owners are making the right noises about respecting the teams heritage, not moving them from Grove etc so hopefully this is start of the road back to the front of the grid for them.


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## ger147 (Oct 2, 2020)

Honda have announced they are leaving F1 at the end of 2021. Bad news for Red Bull, they will have to secure a new engine supplier for the start of 2022 when the new regulations come in which could put them on the back foot with the design of their 2022 car.

Also not great to only have 3 engine suppliers on the grid.


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## Mudball (Oct 2, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Honda have announced they are leaving F1 at the end of 2021. Bad news for Red Bull, they will have to secure a new engine supplier for the start of 2022 when the new regulations come in which could put them on the back foot with the design of their 2022 car.

Also not great to only have 3 engine suppliers on the grid.
		
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Get a Tesla engine... lets race a E1 against an F1


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## bobmac (Oct 2, 2020)

Mudball said:



			Get a Tesla engine... lets race a E1 against an F1
		
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Now that would be interesting, especially around Monaco


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## cliveb (Oct 2, 2020)

Mudball said:



			Get a Tesla engine... lets race a E1 against an F1
		
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Ha ha. The leccy cars would blow the ice cars into the weeds at the start, and then after a while run out of juice and they'd all DNF.


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## Mudball (Oct 2, 2020)

cliveb said:



			Ha ha. The leccy cars would blow the ice cars into the weeds at the start, and then after a while run out of juice and they'd all DNF.
		
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Assume leccy can have 300miles range..   Each lap about 5 miles (?)...  50-60 laps would need 300 miles.    They need a supercharger at the pitstop.  Then it will come out and lap hamilton..   

i would pay to watch this..


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## bobmac (Oct 2, 2020)

Mudball said:



			Assume leccy can have 300miles range..   Each lap about 5 miles (?)...  50-60 laps would need 300 miles.    They need a supercharger at the pitstop.  Then it will come out and lap hamilton..  

i would pay to watch this..
		
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I think most races are around 200 miles long, I think the VW ID.R would have some fun


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## cliveb (Oct 2, 2020)

Mudball said:



			Assume leccy can have 300miles range..   Each lap about 5 miles (?)...  50-60 laps would need 300 miles.    They need a supercharger at the pitstop.  Then it will come out and lap hamilton..  

i would pay to watch this..
		
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F1 races are ~200 miles (or 2 hours if that comes first).
We can use Formula E to get an idea of the power needs. They have 55kWh batteries and run for about 45mins, so that's about 1.2kWh/min.
To last 2 hours they'd need ~140 kWh (Tesla model S has 100kWh).
But Formula E cars are nowhere near as quick as F1. To compete with F1 you'd probably need at least twice the available energy, and batteries that big are going to weigh far too much. The technology isn't yet there to run full length Grands Prix at the kind of speeds you'd want on electric power only.

The only conceivable way I can think it might work is if the E-F1 cars had the ability to do some kind of rapid battery pack swap during a pit stop.
You certainly aren't going to be able to recharge the batteries fast enough. (recharging 100kWh in under a minute would require a charging rate of 6MW - ain't gonna happen).


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## Mudball (Oct 2, 2020)

cliveb said:



			F1 races are ~200 miles (or 2 hours if that comes first).
We can use Formula E to get an idea of the power needs. They have 55kWh batteries and run for about 45mins, so that's about 1.2kWh/min.
To last 2 hours they'd need ~140 kWh (Tesla model S has 100kWh).
But Formula E cars are nowhere near as quick as F1. To compete with F1 you'd probably need at least twice the available energy, and batteries that big are going to weigh far too much. The technology isn't yet there to run full length Grands Prix at the kind of speeds you'd want on electric power only.

The only conceivable way I can think it might work is if the E-F1 cars had the ability to do some kind o*f rapid battery pack swap during a pit stop.*
You certainly aren't going to be able to recharge the batteries fast enough. (recharging 100kWh in under a minute would require a charging rate of 6MW - ain't gonna happen).
		
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What if we think outside the box... keep 2 identical cars... at some  point the first car comes in, the second car is ready.  Driver jumps in.  pit crew swap the tyres into the new car.    Charge of battery wont impact weight.
If there is a will...


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## ger147 (Oct 2, 2020)

Mudball said:



			What if we think outside the box... keep 2 identical cars... at some  point the first car comes in, the second car is ready.  Driver jumps in.  pit crew swap the tyres into the new car.    Charge of battery wont impact weight.
If there is a will...
		
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There is no will at present.

The owners of F1 and all the teams have just signed a new 5 year agreement so at least another 5 years of turbo hybrid engines.


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## cliveb (Oct 2, 2020)

Mudball said:



			What if we think outside the box... keep 2 identical cars... at some  point the first car comes in, the second car is ready.  Driver jumps in.  pit crew swap the tyres into the new car.    Charge of battery wont impact weight.
If there is a will...
		
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Fair point. That's exactly how Formula E worked for the first few years.
Then the battery technology improved enough that they can go the whole race on a single charge.
Give it another few years and maybe it might be possible to get up to F1 speeds & durations.


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## bobmac (Oct 6, 2020)

Wot, no more Honda?


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## ger147 (Oct 6, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Wot, no more Honda?
		
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Not after 2021, no.


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## robinthehood (Oct 11, 2020)

win 91 from hamilton, equaling Schumachers record. Amazing.


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## Reemul (Oct 11, 2020)

He is definitely a great driver, 7 constructors championships on the trot coming up is doing F1 no favours.

Additionally I was fed up hearing about this historic occasion, no the first time when Schuy did it was historic, it will be historic when Lewis beats it , which he will do easily. Can't see him not winning it this year and probably next year as well.

Pretty poor race today, no one but Lewis to win.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 11, 2020)

Lovely touch to give Hamilton one of Schumachers old helmets. He may be many things and not always to everybody's taste but he does have a real sense of F1 history and Schumachers achievements and part in that and seemed genuinely humbled


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## bobmac (Oct 12, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			win 91 from hamilton, equaling Schumachers record. Amazing.
		
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I'm pleased I didn't click on this thread until after I saw the race on CH4 last night.
Lesson learned


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## ger147 (Oct 12, 2020)

bobmac said:



			I'm pleased I didn't click on this thread until after I saw the race on CH4 last night.
Lesson learned
		
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All sorts of sport is discussed on here live as it happens.  As you say, if you don't want to know the outcome then don't click on the relevant threads until you've caught up.


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## robinthehood (Oct 12, 2020)

Yeah, i'd stay away from all forms of media if I didnt want to know the result.
I managed it with the PGA highlights yesterday, despite looking on the forum, its shows how little Pro golf is discussed 😂😂


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## robinthehood (Oct 24, 2020)

Another world class display from Lewis, Botas top all weekend, but when it matters Hamitton sticks it on pole with the last lap of the day, it sounded like Bottas was going to cry in the interview!


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## bobmac (Oct 25, 2020)

Some people may not like him but you can't deny his ability.
A new track and he still beats everyone.
Surprising news about Grosjean and Magnusson, but the track will be a safer place without them.
I hope Hulkenberg gets one of the seats


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## ger147 (Oct 25, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Some people may not like him but you can't deny his ability.
A new track and he still beats everyone.
Surprising news about Grosjean and Magnusson, but the track will be a safer place without them.
I hope Hulkenberg gets one of the seats
		
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He is deffo a class act. To pull out the lap you need from time to time is very difficult, to be able to do it week after week when you need it most is what separates him from the rest.

Bottas must be wondering what he has to do to beat him.


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## robinthehood (Oct 25, 2020)

ger147 said:



			He is deffo a class act. To pull out the lap you need from time to time is very difficult, to be able to do it week after week when you need it most is what separates him from the rest.

Bottas must be wondering what he has to do to beat him.
		
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Yeah Bottas likes to bemoan his luck, but he's had plenty of chances to win more races and not taken them.


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## Piece (Oct 25, 2020)

92 GPs. Amazing achievement to become the most successful race winner of all time. Is LH undervalued in this country? Yes.


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## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2020)

Piece said:



			92 GPs. Amazing achievement to become the most successful race winner of all time. Is LH undervalued in this country? Yes.
		
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May be he needs to live here? Just saying.


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## robinthehood (Oct 25, 2020)

Piece said:



			92 GPs. Amazing achievement to become the most successful race winner of all time. Is LH undervalued in this country? Yes.
		
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Another great win, you're correct he is undervalued,  which is a shame.


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## robinthehood (Oct 25, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			May be he needs to live here? Just saying.
		
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Just saying what? Where he lives is irrelevant.


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## ger147 (Oct 25, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			May be he needs to live here? Just saying.
		
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Jim Clark moved to Paris for tax purposes, no-one thought any worse of him.


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## robinthehood (Oct 25, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Jim Clark moved to Paris for tax purposes, no-one thought any worse of him.
		
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Rory, poulter to name 2 golfers based in the USA


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## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Just saying what? Where he lives is irrelevant.
		
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Not really. If you live in GB, pay taxes in GB, you might be viewed as a Brit. Live in a tax haven, you are never going to be viewed in the same way as someone who lives in the UK. 

Me? I am a fan of his F1 driving, but I still view him as a tax dodger, and as such, anything else he waffles on about, I am not listening to.


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## USER1999 (Oct 25, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Rory, poulter to name 2 golfers based in the USA
		
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So if you play on the PGA tour, you should commute from the UK? 

Not really practical.

Hamilton is on a global schedule, he could domicile anywhere. He has chosen to live in a tax free principality. One could argue that his day job is in the UK, where his team is based, but no, he lives in Monaco.


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## ger147 (Oct 25, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			So if you play on the PGA tour, you should commute from the UK?

Not really practical.

Hamilton is on a global schedule, he could domicile anywhere. He has chosen to live in a tax free principality. One could argue that his day job is in the UK, where his team is based, but no, he lives in Monaco.
		
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His day job is not in the UK. There are a set number of testing days in pre-season and none of them are in the UK. In normal circumstances, the only time Hamilton drives an F1 car on UK soil is at the British GP and F1 drivers rarely visit the factory either in pre-season or throughout the season.

You are of course free to hold your view re. him choosing a tax haven to set up home, I have no issues with that view at all.


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## BiMGuy (Oct 25, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Not really. If you live in GB, pay taxes in GB, you might be viewed as a Brit. Live in a tax haven, you are never going to be viewed in the same way as someone who lives in the UK.

Me? I am a fan of his F1 driving, but I still view him as a tax dodger, and as such, anything else he waffles on about, I am not listening to.
		
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Yet Lewis is still in the top something.0% of tax payers in the UK. 

Name me one person that pays more tax than they absolutely have to?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Oct 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			So if you play on the PGA tour, you should commute from the UK?

Not really practical.

Hamilton is on a global schedule, he could domicile anywhere. He has chosen to live in a tax free principality. One could argue that his day job is in the UK, where his team is based, but no, he lives in Monaco.
		
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At various times most of the leading British drivers have been domiciled outside of the UK. 

Stewart in Switzerland, Mansel on the Isle of Man, Coulthard and Button in Monaco etc;

Those that remained in this country took full advantage of tax avoidance schemes. 

Presumably you feel similarly towards them.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			So if you play on the PGA tour, you should commute from the UK?

Not really practical.

Hamilton is on a global schedule, he could domicile anywhere. He has chosen to live in a tax free principality. One could argue that his day job is in the UK, where his team is based, but no, he lives in Monaco.
		
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And where did arsenal pay their players from?
Hamilton is the best there has been.


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## Piece (Oct 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			May be he needs to live here? Just saying.
		
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I can see that. Ignoring the tax issue as a separate subject, the fact that he isn't a UK resident means he isn't prominent within the UK and hence doesn't have exposure and is 'undervalued'.


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## robinthehood (Oct 26, 2020)

92 wins.. staggering and at the time no one thought Schumacher would ever be caught , now it looks like Lewis could well go on to 100+


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## Beezerk (Oct 26, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			May be he needs to live here? Just saying.
		
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🤣🤣🤣
Argentinians must really hate Messi for living in Europe 🤣


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## USER1999 (Oct 26, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			🤣🤣🤣
Argentinians must really hate Messi for living in Europe 🤣
		
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He couldn't really be expected to commute to his day job from there though could he.

He could commute from Monaco though I guess.


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## robinthehood (Oct 31, 2020)

A 2 day GP weekend up this time.  Max looking good in practice, I guess it will end up being usual suspects in qualy


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Ouch! Bottas must wonder what he has to do to beat Lewis..


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## ger147 (Nov 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Ouch! Bottas must wonder what he has to do to beat Lewis..
		
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Lock him in a car boot before the race...


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 1, 2020)

Is Hamilton just teasing fans and journalists or is there truth behind the story? https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...-guarantee-in-formula-1-2021-stay-at-mercedes


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## SaintHacker (Nov 1, 2020)

Trying to squeeze a few more sheckels before the salary cap comes in


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 14, 2020)

Anyone watch the F1 qualifying in Turkey today in the rain. It was hard enough keeping them on the track yesterday but add in all the rain today and it was carnage at times. For along time qualifying best was over two minutes. Definitely one of the more adventurous and interesting qualifying sessions I've seen and I think tomorrow is one to watch even if you aren't a fan of F1 which for the most part I'm not


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## Smiffy (Nov 14, 2020)

Carnage is the wrong word I think mate. No accidents but plenty of frustration. What the hell were Red Bull doing??? Can fully understand why Verstappen was annoyed


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 14, 2020)

Smiffy said:



			Carnage is the wrong word I think mate. No accidents but plenty of frustration. What the hell were Red Bull doing??? Can fully understand why Verstappen was annoyed
		
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Carnage in terms of not keeping it on the track when going in a straight line. Frustrating too especially Q1 stopping and stopping.


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## robinthehood (Nov 14, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Anyone watch the F1 qualifying in Turkey today in the rain. It was hard enough keeping them on the track yesterday but add in all the rain today and it was carnage at times. For along time qualifying best was over two minutes. Definitely one of the more adventurous and interesting qualifying sessions I've seen and I think tomorrow is one to watch even if you aren't a fan of F1 which for the most part I'm not
		
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Not a fan, but you watch it and spend as much time as anyone in f1 threads. ??


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## robinthehood (Nov 14, 2020)

Will be a fun race tomorow with the mixed up grid . Dont get caught out by the early start time.


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## Reemul (Nov 14, 2020)

Stroll 5 seconds quicker than the Mercedes, some great driving from him


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## Beedee (Nov 14, 2020)

I wonder how many cars will make it to turn 2.  Turn 1 is tight, cold brakes and tyres, track like ice.


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## Beedee (Nov 14, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Will be a fun race tomorow with the mixed up grid . Dont get caught out by the early start time.
		
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Good job you said that   It's a lot earlier than I thought.  10am it is.


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## robinthehood (Nov 14, 2020)

Beedee said:



			I wonder how many cars will make it to turn 2.  Turn 1 is tight, cold brakes and tyres, track like ice.
		
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Yeah could be crazy stuff. I'm really looking forward to it.


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## jim8flog (Nov 14, 2020)

Great 'caption' on Sky today

Welcome to Icestanbul.



Beedee said:



			Good job you said that   It's a lot earlier than I thought.  10am it is.
		
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On the masters tonight they were saying it will be 8.30!!


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## robinthehood (Nov 14, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			Great 'caption' on Sky today

Welcome to Icestanbul.



On the masters tonight they were saying it will be 8.30!!
		
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Build up starts at 9 lights out at 10.


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## ger147 (Nov 15, 2020)

Hamilton does it once again, a great win in horrible conditions and a 7th world championship secured.

As his race engineer would say, "get in Lewis!!"


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## robinthehood (Nov 15, 2020)

Amazing race from Lewis and a great race all round.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 15, 2020)

Hamilton’s achievements need perspective. He has done a good job, but the FIA gifted him championships with their engine development freezes and the monopolisation of tyre suppliers. 
Stopped watching F1 because there was little or no technical innovation. It was supposed to be a race series about engineering but soon became just a wind tunnel exercise .. 
If you want a real racing laugh look out for stadium truck racing.. they are manic jumping over ramps and wheel lifting etc .. then they close the field up after 2/3 race distance just to get the field bunched up and the race moves going.


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## robinthehood (Nov 15, 2020)

Lewis will go on to win 100+ GPs and may be 8 or even 9 world champs and still we have to listen to nonsense about how he has it easy and really any one can win in that car. There certainly is a team that gets a lot of help from the FIA and it's Ferrari.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 15, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Lewis will go on to win 100+ GPs and may be 8 or even 9 world champs and still we have to listen to nonsense about how he has it easy and really any one can win in that car. There certainly is a team that gets a lot of help from the FIA and it's Ferrari.
		
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A common theory promoted by the English press ... not a lot happening right now. 
Let me remind you Schumacher got race wins against Hakkinen, Montoya , Alonso and they were driving pretty competitive stuff with no DRS .. just saying.. also Hamilton pushes back on tyre degradation he hates it, because he is mono dimensional as a driver.. by all means congratulate him but he isn’t a GOAT.


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## robinthehood (Nov 15, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			A common theory promoted by the English press ... not a lot happening right now.
Let me remind you Schumacher got race wins against Hakkinen, Montoya , Alonso and they were driving pretty competitive stuff with no DRS .. just saying.. also Hamilton pushes back on tyre degradation he hates it, because he is mono dimensional as a driver.. by all means congratulate him but he isn’t a GOAT.
		
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No he's the GOAT 🤣😉
Is it fair Ferrari receive an extra 70 million prize money every year, just because they're Ferrari?


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## Rebuteo (Nov 15, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Lewis will go on to win 100+ GPs and may be 8 or even 9 world champs and still we have to listen to nonsense about how he has it easy and really any one can win in that car. There certainly is a team that gets a lot of help from the FIA and it's Ferrari.
		
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Not a fan of Lewis the person, but after he again laps his teammate on the day he wins a title, the 'it's all the car' nonsense is just shown up even more for what it is. Nonsense.

He's one of the most successful British sportsmen of all time, and isn't finished yet. Let's maybe celebrate his achievements rather than throw shade on them.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 15, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			A common theory promoted by the English press ... not a lot happening right now.
Let me remind you Schumacher got race wins against Hakkinen, Montoya , Alonso and they were driving pretty competitive stuff with no DRS .. just saying.. also Hamilton pushes back on tyre degradation he hates it, because he is mono dimensional as a driver.. by all means congratulate him but he isn’t a GOAT.
		
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Are we allowed to mention Schumacher's cheating? Or his contracted No.1 status. Or 1 way telemetry? 

Or Lewis beating Alonso, a 2 time WDC in his first season, or that he's consistently beaten all of his teammates, including those that were also world champion? 

You may not like him for whatever reason, but your assessment of his racing ability is nonsense.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 15, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Are we allowed to mention Schumacher's cheating? Or his contracted No.1 status. Or 1 way telemetry?

Or Lewis beating Alonso, a 2 time WDC in his first season, or that he's consistently beaten all of his teammates, including those that were also world champion?

You may not like him for whatever reason, but your assessment of his racing ability is nonsense.
		
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Keep reading autosport ... working in the sport for over a decade apparently makes an opinion nonsense 🤣


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## harpo_72 (Nov 15, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			No he's the GOAT 🤣😉
Is it fair Ferrari receive an extra 70 million prize money every year, just because they're Ferrari?
		
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Let Ferrari leave then if you don’t like the payment.. after all it’s there because it covers the extra attention they draw, not that I agree with that but isn’t that how sport works?


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## Reemul (Nov 15, 2020)

7 Constructors championships on the trot shows how much better their car is than anyone elses.

Lewis is an amazing driver in the best car, can't fail to win unfortunately. Bottas is not of a good enough standard to push him enough either. Can't see Lewis not winning an 8th next year. The only person in the last 7 years to take anything off him is his team mate, again showing how dominant the car is however Lewis is still amazing but personally he is not amazing enough to put him in any other car and win multiple championships over the last few years.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 15, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Keep reading autosport ... working in the sport for over a decade apparently makes an opinion nonsense 🤣
		
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I've known people work in an industry for 30 years I who's opinions I consider nonsense. Post up links to some of your articles and we can decide for ourselves. 

Unless you have been writing about truck racing for a decade then don't bother. Only 3 people care.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 15, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			I've known people work in an industry for 30 years I who's opinions I consider nonsense. Post up links to some of your articles and we can decide for ourselves.

Unless you have been writing about truck racing for a decade then don't bother. Only 3 people care.
		
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Yay for mushrooms and their opinions


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## BiMGuy (Nov 15, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Yay for mushrooms and their opinions
		
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Links to your articles please. Let's see what your options are. Because the only one you've offered so far is quite frankly, nonsense.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 15, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Links to your articles please. Let's see what your options are. Because the only one you've offered so far is quite frankly, nonsense.
		
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Why would I write articles? I am not a journalist.. go off and dig deeper do your own home work go beyond the journalist articles. I will give you a tip, the journalists were controlled by the PR and Media teams, they write what they are told.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 15, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Why would I write articles? I am not a journalist.. go off and dig deeper do your own home work go beyond the journalist articles. I will give you a tip, the journalists were controlled by the PR and Media teams, they write what they are told.
		
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Ok. So you are just another guy on the Internet that doesn't like Lewis for whatever reason. And rather than just say that you question his driving abilities. 
Best if we leave it there.


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 15, 2020)

He might be world champion again but I still think he's a nob.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 15, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Ok. So you are just another guy on the Internet that doesn't like Lewis for whatever reason. And rather than just say that you question his driving abilities.
Best if we leave it there.
		
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Your the one who stated it was nonsense when his championships were put into context... suggest you accept other opinions a little more politely in future especially when you cannot justify your own.


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## USER1999 (Nov 15, 2020)

Throughout F1 history, the best driver has gravitated to the best car. It's just the way it is, and always has been.
May be Schumacher is the exception, when he went to Ferrari, but who knows what was coming, who knows what having him drew in in terms of sponsorship, or revenue. F1 is all about money whatever.
For me, Hamilton is not the greatest, but then neither is Schumacher. There are arguments for both, but for me, Senna is king.
Hamilton has the most wins, and probably the most championships, and kudos for that, he is brilliant, and should be appreciated more than he is, but GOAT, no. There is more to it than that.

Schumacher blotted his book when he rammed Hill, and then Villneuve. Yep, Senna rammed Prost, but then they had history of swapping car parts, it went with that era of racing.


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## Norrin Radd (Nov 15, 2020)

Not a fan of Lewis ,but if I had to have anyone from this era of drivers drive for my life he would be the man . He drove a great race today looked after his tyres and reaped the rewards .

Now if I would have any driver from this era who I would smack in the mouth it would be Lewis .just can't warm to him at all.


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## robinthehood (Nov 15, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Throughout F1 history, the best driver has gravitated to the best car. It's just the way it is, and always has been.
May be Schumacher is the exception, when he went to Ferrari, but who knows what was coming, who knows what having him drew in in terms of sponsorship, or revenue. F1 is all about money whatever.
For me, Hamilton is not the greatest, but then neither is Schumacher. There are arguments for both, but for me, Senna is king.
Hamilton has the most wins, and probably the most championships, and kudos for that, he is brilliant, and should be appreciated more than he is, but GOAT, no. There is more to it than that.

Schumacher blotted his book when he rammed Hill, and then Villneuve. Yep, Senna rammed Prost, but then they had history of swapping car parts, it went with that era of racing.
		
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Merc had far from the best car when Lewis went there.  At the time everyone way saying he had made a massive mistake. 
It's so wierd that so many feel the need to downplay his achievements.
There is no one with more wins or world champs.  End.


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## Reemul (Nov 15, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Merc had far from the best car when Lewis went there.  At the time everyone way saying he had made a massive mistake.
It's so wierd that so many feel the need to downplay his achievements.
There is no one with more wins or world champs.  End.
		
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I don't think they are down playing his achievements though. Look Vettel won 4 world championships on the trot and ahd by far the best car, take the best car away from him and he hasn't wont anything again. For the last 5 years the Merc has been the best car so staying with it for that period should give you the most wins, the most poles and the most championships, if it hadn't have been Lewis maybe it would have been someone else. I think what frustrates some is many a time there is a failure to acknowledge it is down to more than just Lewis for the past 4 or 5 years and the team and car is amazing. 

It is one of the reasons Diego Maradona is so feted, He pretty much did win the World cup for Argenttina, he dragged that team through it, Lewis has not done that for the last 5 years he has benefitted from the best car and team. Additionally he has not had the same level of driver competition that many had, Like Prost, Piquet, Senna, Mansel all at the same time. Who has been of sufficient challenge to him from a driver level, we have Max who was just a kid for the first 3 years and no one else.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 15, 2020)

regardless of whether you think lewis is the best ever, that he is a great driver is undeniable.

He’s peerless in this current generation, alonso and vettel aren’t close to him, and although verstappen has potential, he’s not at the same level yet. 

No doubt he’s had the best car for perhaps all but one of his championship wins. That’s part and parcel of F1 though.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 15, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I don't think they are down playing his achievements though. Look Vettel won 4 world championships on the trot and ahd by far the best car, take the best car away from him and he hasn't wont anything again. For the last 5 years the Merc has been the best car so staying with it for that period should give you the most wins, the most poles and the most championships, if it hadn't have been Lewis maybe it would have been someone else. I think what frustrates some is many a time there is a failure to acknowledge it is down to more than just Lewis for the past 4 or 5 years and the team and car is amazing.

It is one of the reasons Diego Maradona is so feted, He pretty much did win the World cup for Argenttina, he dragged that team through it, Lewis has not done that for the last 5 years he has benefitted from the best car and team. Additionally he has not had the same level of driver competition that many had, Like Prost, Piquet, Senna, Mansel all at the same time. Who has been of sufficient challenge to him from a driver level, we have Max who was just a kid for the first 3 years and no one else.
		
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You could argue LH should be judged on where his team-mate is, and today he was 13 places behind him and lapped him. Many use Schumacher as the pinnacle, but how many races has LH been given  by his teams instructions to his team-mate and team orders?
LH is the best there has been, and I feel priveleged to have been able to watch him through the years.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 15, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			You could argue LH should be judged on where his team-mate is, and today he was 13 places behind him and lapped him. Many use Schumacher as the pinnacle, but how many races has LH been given  by his teams instructions to his team-mate and team orders?
LH is the best there has been, and I feel priveleged to have been able to watch him through the years.
		
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I agree - no one has operated at the level he has for such a long time in the history of the sport.

Wet conditions are a great leveller in terms of the cars and throughout his career Hamilton has been brilliant in the wet. Today was case in point; phenomenal


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## bobmac (Nov 15, 2020)

Well done Lewis ... 7


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## Smiffy (Nov 16, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Keep reading autosport ... working in the sport for over a decade apparently makes an opinion nonsense 🤣
		
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I don't get this comment. Whilst I agree that it wasn't aimed at me, I have been watching F1 long enough to have witnessed some of the stunts that Schumacher pulled, I don't need to read Autosport to form my own opinion.
Schumacher was a bully, an arrogant so and so. And he was dangerous. What he did to Damon Hill and attempted to do to Villeneuve put him in a bad enough light, but what eventually showed him up for what he was was the stunt he pulled on Barrichello, (see below).
I'm not a massive fan of Hamilton, I don't agree with a lot of what he says or does, but that's up to him.
But he is an out and out racer, and as far as I can recall has never come close to putting another driver at risk to achieve his results. Is he the greatest of all time??? No, but he's certainly the greatest of his era.
When Lewes feels he has had enough, or he is no longer able to compete, he'll bow out gracefully. He won't resort to tactics like below. Schumacher should have been banned for this..........


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## cliveb (Nov 16, 2020)

A few comments to the Hamilton naysayers:
1. To all those who say Lewis has the best car. Yes, but so does pretty much everyone who wins the WDC. Everyone's hero Fangio was a master of jumping from team to team to ensure he was always in the best car.
2. As a driver Lewis has matured into someone that combines the outright speed of a Senna with the patience and strategic analysis of a Prost.
3. Senna was a bully, Prost was a scheming political manipulator, and don't get me started on that outright cheat Schumacher. Compared to them, Lewis has been a gentleman. Outspoken, yes, but always fair to his competitors.

I never thought anyone would match the greatness of Jim Clark, but I think Lewis might just be up there.


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## jim8flog (Nov 16, 2020)

That race demonstrates just how good *all* the drivers are.

The ability to drive in those conditions at those speeds and in the main keep the car going where it should was just amazing.


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## robinthehood (Nov 16, 2020)

I would assume a knighthood will be forthcoming.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 16, 2020)

Smiffy said:



			I don't get this comment. Whilst I agree that it wasn't aimed at me, I have been watching F1 long enough to have witnessed some of the stunts that Schumacher pulled, I don't need to read Autosport to form my own opinion.
Schumacher was a bully, an arrogant so and so. And he was dangerous. What he did to Damon Hill and attempted to do to Villeneuve put him in a bad enough light, but what eventually showed him up for what he was was the stunt he pulled on Barrichello, (see below).
I'm not a massive fan of Hamilton, I don't agree with a lot of what he says or does, but that's up to him.
But he is an out and out racer, and as far as I can recall has never come close to putting another driver at risk to achieve his results. Is he the greatest of all time??? No, but he's certainly the greatest of his era.
When Lewes feels he has had enough, or he is no longer able to compete, he'll bow out gracefully. He won't resort to tactics like below. Schumacher should have been banned for this..........






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I agree with you Smiffy about Schumacher. 

The only thing I would say though is that although it isn’t possible to say that Hamilton is the best there has ever been, given what he has achieved I don’t think it’s possible to say that he isn’t either.

I’m with Vettel on this, it’s impossible to compare across generations as the skills required to do what they do have changed dramatically.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 16, 2020)

Smiffy said:



			I don't get this comment. Whilst I agree that it wasn't aimed at me, I have been watching F1 long enough to have witnessed some of the stunts that Schumacher pulled, I don't need to read Autosport to form my own opinion.
Schumacher was a bully, an arrogant so and so. And he was dangerous. What he did to Damon Hill and attempted to do to Villeneuve put him in a bad enough light, but what eventually showed him up for what he was was the stunt he pulled on Barrichello, (see below).
I'm not a massive fan of Hamilton, I don't agree with a lot of what he says or does, but that's up to him.
But he is an out and out racer, and as far as I can recall has never come close to putting another driver at risk to achieve his results. Is he the greatest of all time??? No, but he's certainly the greatest of his era.
When Lewes feels he has had enough, or he is no longer able to compete, he'll bow out gracefully. He won't resort to tactics like below. Schumacher should have been banned for this..........






Click to expand...

I think we all know Schumacher made some pretty poor decisions in his desperation to be competitive. The Benetton was good but the Williams was not a push over and perhaps we don’t credit Hill and Villeneuve with enough talent. 
But I don’t say Schumacher is the all time great, he did go to a poor performing Ferrari, but he did not make them dominant on his own. There was a transfer of some very key personnel as well. 
When has Lewis ever been in a non competitive car? The red bull was dominating him in the hands of Vettel and Webber and that was just aero efficient as the engine wasn’t cranking out the best performance. He also didn’t give Button much competition either .. championship was done and dusted pretty early for the Brawn team. 
Just accept that some of us don’t think he is the greatest and we don’t think he is as well a rounded driver as some of the other world champions.


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 17, 2020)

I found a review of the 1982 F1 season on YouTube narrated by the awesome Clive James.  Tremendous footage, detailed analysis and incredible writing and sarcasm throughout from James.  Brilliant 90 minutes.


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## 4LEX (Nov 17, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I would assume a knighthood will be forthcoming.
		
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I doubt it due to his tax dodging.


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## robinthehood (Nov 17, 2020)

4LEX said:



			I doubt it due to his tax dodging.
		
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Other than he's in the top 5% of highest tax payers in the UK.


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## 4LEX (Nov 17, 2020)

It's not what you see it's what you don't when it comes to tax avoidance


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## BiMGuy (Nov 17, 2020)

4LEX said:



			It's not what you see it's what you don't when it comes to tax avoidance 

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You don't partake in any form of tax avoidance then?


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## 4LEX (Nov 17, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			You don't partake in any form of tax avoidance then?
		
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## bobmac (Nov 17, 2020)

Tax dodging or tax avoidance, are they the same thing?


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## robinthehood (Nov 17, 2020)

No.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 17, 2020)

bobmac said:



			Tax dodging or tax avoidance, are they the same thing?
		
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Tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax evasion is most certainly not. 

So an ISA, pension, partaking in a cycle to work scheme or buying duty free are all perfectly legal ways to avoid paying some tax. As is being a contractor and running as a single director limited company, paying yourself minimum wage and taking a yearly dividend. 

Doing a bit of weekend work off the books for cash and not declaring the income is tax evasion and not legal. 

As far as I am aware Lewis has done nothing illegal. In fact he's probably had not a lot to do with any of his tax arrangements. He most likely leaves it all to his management company. As anyone with that sort of money and lifestyle would. 

I don't know anyone who voluntarily pays more tax than they have to.


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## ger147 (Nov 17, 2020)

Based on the number of Sirs down the years who were not domiciled in the UK for tax purposes, I don't think tax status is on the Honours checklist.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 17, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Based on the number of Sirs down the years who were not domiciled in the UK for tax purposes, I don't think tax status is on the Honours checklist.
		
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Isn’t more about giving to the party ?


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## Beedee (Nov 17, 2020)

Must admit I don't like sportspeople getting gongs while they're still competing.  I'd rather they'd finished their careers and we were confident their reputation was free from major foul-ups / scandals / pharmaceuticals.

I must add this isn't a dig at Hamilton.  I think he's tax advice has been questionable (but not illegal), but that hasn't stopped plenty of others getting their K's.


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## 4LEX (Nov 17, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax evasion is most certainly not.

So an ISA, pension, partaking in a cycle to work scheme or buying duty free are all perfectly legal ways to avoid paying some tax. As is being a contractor and running as a single director limited company, paying yourself minimum wage and taking a yearly dividend.

Doing a bit of weekend work off the books for cash and not declaring the income is tax evasion and not legal.

As far as I am aware Lewis has done nothing illegal. In fact he's probably had not a lot to do with any of his tax arrangements. He most likely leaves it all to his management company. As anyone with that sort of money and lifestyle would.

I don't know anyone who voluntarily pays more tax than they have to.
		
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That's spot on to be fair. Anyone that pays more tax than required is a mug. I just think the tide has turned against high profile stars who leave the country for tax reasons when it comes to honours. Time will tell.

One of my friends is a race engineer who worked with Hamilton when he was at McLaren and he has nothing but great things to say about Lewis. Team player, time for everyone, passionate, focused, dedicated and a nice guy. I think the year Rosberg beat him and the constant moaning and whining put a lot of people off him though. He's a bad loser.


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## SaintHacker (Nov 17, 2020)

Serious question to all those moaning about him not living here and paying tax, if you suddenly found yourself in the financial position to move to Monaco or Switzerland or wherever, and keep most of it not all of your earnings, what would you do?
Me? I'd be on the next Easyjet out of here...


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## harpo_72 (Nov 17, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Serious question to all those moaning about him not living here and paying tax, if you suddenly found yourself in the financial position to move to Monaco or Switzerland or wherever, and keep most of it not all of your earnings, what would you do?
Me? I'd be on the next Easyjet out of here...
		
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Give wedges to my family and friends .. can’t spend £40million can’t be bothered with too much material rubbish. Give me my golf clubs, time to play and no worries about my day to day stuff and that’s me sorted... nothing I ever buy makes me as happy as hitting golf balls.


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## robinthehood (Nov 17, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Give wedges to my family and friends .. can’t spend £40million can’t be bothered with too much material rubbish. Give me my golf clubs, time to play and no worries about my day to day stuff and that’s me sorted... nothing I ever buy makes me as happy as hitting golf balls.
		
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Yeah but you'd be doing it somewhere warm all year round.


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## robinthehood (Nov 17, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Serious question to all those moaning about him not living here and paying tax, if you suddenly found yourself in the financial position to move to Monaco or Switzerland or wherever, and keep most of it not all of your earnings, what would you do?
Me? I'd be on the next Easyjet out of here...
		
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Same as , although maybe I'd fly 1st class 😉


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## Beedee (Nov 17, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Serious question to all those moaning about him not living here and paying tax, if you suddenly found yourself in the financial position to move to Monaco or Switzerland or wherever, and keep most of it not all of your earnings, what would you do?
Me? I'd be on the next Easyjet out of here...
		
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How much money do you need before you don't care anymore?  Mr Hamilton has a salary of $40M a year.  Then there's all the rest of sponsorships, image rights, appearance money, etc, etc.  If you get £1M a week and can't afford to pay some tax and put a little aside for your pension then you probably need to draw up a weekly budget plan!


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## harpo_72 (Nov 18, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Yeah but you'd be doing it somewhere warm all year round.
		
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Might have a few holidays but it won’t be in term time.. I would have the state of the art golf studio / simulator . But blowing £40million, no chance that is a disgusting amount of money. £100k a year after tax is a pretty sweet lifestyle especially if you can pick and choose what you do every day. As I have already stated just hitting golf balls and playing golf is good enough for me.


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## bobmac (Nov 18, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			But blowing £40million, no chance that is a disgusting amount of money.
		
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I agree.
But I guess it's what you do with it that matters, plenty of good causes always need help.

If all the F1 drivers chipped in to buy specially adapted cars for the disabled, they would get more respect.

Think of the good all the footballers in the country could do if they all got together.
I'm sure alot of them do help individually but* getting together they could make a real difference....*

The Manchester Footballers Hospital
The London Footballers Shelters for the homeless.
The Liverpool Footballers refugee centre
etc. etc.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 18, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Give wedges to my family and friends .. can’t spend £40million can’t be bothered with too much material rubbish. Give me my golf clubs, time to play and no worries about my day to day stuff and that’s me sorted... nothing I ever buy makes me as happy as hitting golf balls.
		
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Says the man with a picture of his Jag as his avatar  

Just teasing, but it's very easy to say a lot of things when it's not your reality.

It's probably already been noted above, but Hamilton does actually pay a lot of UK tax. The other thing that is different about him is that he doesn't actually make his money in the UK so really why should the UK have a claim on it? His lifestyle is an international one, he has to be nominally based somewhere, why should it be the UK?

I think he should get a knighthood, whether people like him on a personal level or not, I think he is someone that Britain should be very, very proud of.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 18, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Says the man with a picture of his Jag as his avatar 

Just teasing, but it's very easy to say a lot of things when it's not your reality.

It's probably already been noted above, but Hamilton does actually pay a lot of UK tax. The other thing that is different about him is that he doesn't actually make his money in the UK so really why should the UK have a claim on it? His lifestyle is an international one, he has to be nominally based somewhere, why should it be the UK?

I think he should get a knighthood, whether people like him on a personal level or not, I think he is someone that Britain should be very, very proud of.
		
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That’s true I am sure there would be a flurry of spending... the jag has gone, it was nice as was the velar that followed but the 10yr old MX5 stayed .. simple and suitable for my needs.


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## Canary_Yellow (Nov 18, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			That’s true I am sure there would be a flurry of spending... the jag has gone, it was nice as was the velar that followed but the 10yr old MX5 stayed .. simple and suitable for my needs.
		
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Interesting (to me anyway!), how different the F Pace and Velar are as a driving experience given how much of the underlying parts are shared


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## Crumplezone (Nov 18, 2020)

It's a shame that some people find it necessary to paint Hamilton as a racist because of his support for BLM and their (deliberate) failure to comprehend their message. I don't agree with absolutely all of the politics surrounding BLM, but at the end of the day, Hamilton is trying to make people's lives better. He's accused of bringing politics into F1, but there's nothing political about fighting discrimination.  It's also claimed he's hypocritical for driving for Mercedes due to what they did in the war. These people also claim he's not that great a driver and was given preferential treatment in his early days. All absolute garbage of course. In reality it's just  jealousy and and excuse for thinly disguised racism on their own part. He's definitely the best driver of his generation.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 18, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Interesting (to me anyway!), how different the F Pace and Velar are as a driving experience given how much of the underlying parts are shared
		
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PM’d you


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 21, 2020)




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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 21, 2020)

That puts O'Sullivan into the same nob class as Hamilton.   If Ronnie makes a mistake, he doesn't go into a wall at 150 mph.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 21, 2020)

Ronnie could learn a thing or two from Lewis about applying himself and showing a touch of class. 

Both are arguably the most naturally gifted of all time at their chosen sport. Only one of them smashing pretty much all relavent record in their sport. The other is becoming even more of clown and is in the news more for the crap coming out of his mouth than his performances.


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## robinthehood (Nov 21, 2020)

I think Ronnie is amazing, but he needs to think about the thngs he says.
A mistake in Snooker is possibly loss of frame, in Motor racing its possibly loss of life.


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## ger147 (Nov 21, 2020)

Ronnie is the most amazingly fantastic snooker player I have ever had the pleasure of watching but he is also a massive, humongous tool.

Ronnie makes Phil Taylor look modest, he should stick to running...


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## BiMGuy (Nov 22, 2020)

Nice to see reports that Lewis will finally be knighted in the new year hon.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Nice to see reports that Lewis will finally be knighted in the new year hon.
		
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Sportsmen and women being knighted 🤦‍♂️ 

The honours system just get devalued everytime it happens and yes that is valid for anyone who has been given an honour just for being good at sport.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 22, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Nice to see reports that Lewis will finally be knighted in the new year hon.
		
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Whilst I think he probably deserves it (especially as there has been lesser sports people been honoured to the same level) I don't think it should be until he retires as it should be for all sports persons.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sportsmen and women being knighted 🤦‍♂️

The honours system just get devalued everytime it happens and yes that is valid for anyone who has been given an honour just for being good at sport.
		
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What about others then like an actor, delivering lines. Where is the value in that. Could it also be a nod towards Hamilton being a vocal supporter of BLM but also the charity work he has done for GOSH, UNICEF, Educating Africa etc


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 22, 2020)

The whole system was thrown into disrepute after the 2005 Ashes.

Paul Collingwood MBE, for what?


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## BiMGuy (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sportsmen and women being knighted 🤦‍♂️

The honours system just get devalued everytime it happens and yes that is valid for anyone who has been given an honour just for being good at sport.
		
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Maybe it's for his charity work?


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## andycap (Nov 22, 2020)

If others that have gone before him have set the bench mark for what it takes to get honoured then Lewis is long overdue ,  on the other hand those that have gone before him have watered  down just how much an accolade it is to be awarded it , Well deservered  IMO


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## Smiffy (Nov 28, 2020)

I've got a brilliant idea to even things up a bit. If you get pole position, at the next race you have to take a race pundit out tied to your car as ballast. So say Coulthard for instance. If you still get pole, you have to tie an additional pundit to your car, so say Coulthard and Hill. Pole again?? Coulthard, Hill and Eddie Jordan. The following week you'd have Coulthard, Hill, Jordan and Brundell. If you are still achieving pole after that lot, you will then receive the maximum penalty where all four are replaced by Johnny Herbert.....


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## SaintHacker (Nov 28, 2020)

Smiffy said:



			I've got a brilliant idea to even things up a bit. If you get pole position, at the next race you have to take a race pundit out tied to your car as ballast. So say Coulthard for instance. If you still get pole, you have to tie an additional pundit to your car, so say Coulthard and Hill. Pole again?? Coulthard, Hill and Eddie Jordan. The following week you'd have Coulthard, Hill, Jordan and Brundell. If you are still achieving pole after that lot, you will then receive the maximum penalty where all four are replaced by Johnny Herbert.....
		
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## Old Skier (Nov 29, 2020)

Grojeans car just burst into flames as it hit the barrier. How he got away with that. Car splitsin two


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## SteveW86 (Nov 29, 2020)

Wow! That is incredible that he has walked away from that crash


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## Old Skier (Nov 29, 2020)

Amazing, not sure the drivers are keen to continue judging by the body language


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## ger147 (Nov 29, 2020)

That barrier is clearly not fit for purpose, it should not be splitting a car in half.

Delighted to see Roman out of the car and he looks OK bar a bit of a limp. An amazing escape.


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## SteveW86 (Nov 29, 2020)

Surely that’s a testament to the safety design of the modern f1 car. Pre halo I think we would have a fatality there.


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## Fish (Nov 29, 2020)

If he’d lost consciousness nobody was getting him out! 

Surely the barriers shouldn’t let the cars split like that, with the front going through leaving the rear track side?


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## SteveW86 (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			If he’d lost consciousness nobody was getting him out!

Surely the barriers shouldn’t let the cars split like that, with the front going through leaving the rear track side?
		
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I think part of the issue with the barrier is that it was on a straight so different to the barriers at the corners where more likely to crash.

I’m sure they will be looked at though


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## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2020)

That was a biggie.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 29, 2020)

Blooming eck it’s all happening today


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 29, 2020)

The first marshal on the scene immediately with a fire extinguisher was about as useful as a chocolate tea pot.


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## USER1999 (Nov 29, 2020)

Pathetic Shark said:



			The first marshal on the scene immediately with a fire extinguisher was about as useful as a chocolate tea pot.
		
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Hey, at least he tried, with the equipment he had available.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2020)

Fish said:



			If he’d lost consciousness nobody was getting him out!

Surely the barriers shouldn’t let the cars split like that, with the front going through leaving the rear track side?
		
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Everyone saying the halo saved his life but I agree had he been unconscious time people had dealt with the fire and got him out the outcome would have been very different


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## SaintHacker (Nov 29, 2020)

Can everyone now please agree the halo is a good thing?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 29, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			Can everyone now please agree the halo is a good thing?
		
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Definitely but also a testament to to the way F1 cars are now designed to be as safe as possible. Think we all know how this would have played out even 5-10 years ago


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## Beezerk (Nov 29, 2020)

So how did the halo save his life exactly?


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## SteveW86 (Nov 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			So how did the halo save his life exactly?
		
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I think the halo helped in opening up the barrier and taking it above his head. If it wasn’t there it would have hit him straight in the face at approx 140mph


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## ger147 (Nov 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			So how did the halo save his life exactly?
		
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If the Halo was not there it would have been his helmet that smashed into the barrier when the car pierced the barrier and broke in two. The last F1 driver whose helmet took the full force of a collision was the late Jules Bianchi.


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## Old Skier (Nov 29, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			So how did the halo save his life exactly?
		
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Until he tells the powers to be we won’t know, or the experts and engineers on here can speculate.


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## ger147 (Nov 29, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Until he tells the powers to be we won’t know, or the experts and engineers on here can speculate.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333140470604701699


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## SaintHacker (Nov 29, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Until he tells the powers to be we won’t know, or the experts and engineers on here can speculate.
		
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Only repeating what the actual experts and engineers on sky sports said...


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## Piece (Nov 29, 2020)

After that today, perhaps Ronnie may want to rethink, especially as he’s free for the next week or so.


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## bobmac (Nov 30, 2020)

I'm glad no-one got more seriosly injured.
On the brighter side, at least we won't have to listen to Ben Edwards say Ba%$"hain  again


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## USER1999 (Nov 30, 2020)

bobmac said:



			I'm glad no-one got more seriosly injured.
On the brighter side, at least we won't have to listen to Ben Edwards say Ba%$"hain  again
		
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Is the next race not in the same place?


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## ger147 (Nov 30, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Is the next race not in the same place?
		
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Yes


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## bobmac (Nov 30, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Is the next race not in the same place?
		
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## Beedee (Nov 30, 2020)

bobmac said:



			No no no no no no no no
		
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Even tho it the same venue it's a very different track.  IIRC they cut from turn 4 to turn 14 with only a couple of small kinks added.  Should be a very very fast, very low downforce track.


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## ger147 (Dec 1, 2020)

Lewis Hamilton out of this weekend's GP after testing positive for Covid 19.


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## bobmac (Dec 1, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Lewis Hamilton out of this weekend's GP after testing positive for Covid 19.
		
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I hope he makes a full and speedy recovery


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## cliveb (Dec 1, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Lewis Hamilton out of this weekend's GP after testing positive for Covid 19.
		
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Max must think Christmas has come early. Tough luck for him if Valteri gets his act together.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 2, 2020)

Big chance for Russell


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## SaintHacker (Dec 2, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Big chance for Russell
		
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Huge. although I think whatever happens Russell already has one foot in the Merc cockpit for 22. Big chance also for Jack Aitken, if he can stick with Latifi over the weekend it will do him no harm


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## cliveb (Dec 2, 2020)

I'm having a hard time understanding how this happened (Russell to Merc this weekend).
He is Williams' best chance to score any points this year, given the nature of the Sakir circuit layout.
So why would Williams agree to release him? It only makes sense if Merc have paid a shedload of money for it.
But Merc have nothing left to achieve this season, so why would they do that?
The only party who will gain from this is Russell himself. How did he swing it?


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## SteveW86 (Dec 2, 2020)

cliveb said:



			I'm having a hard time understanding how this happened (Russell to Merc this weekend).
He is Williams' best chance to score any points this year, given the nature of the Sakir circuit layout.
So why would Williams agree to release him? It only makes sense if Merc have paid a shedload of money for it.
But Merc have nothing left to achieve this season, so why would they do that?
The only party who will gain from this is Russell himself. How did he swing it?
		
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I think Russell is contacted to Merc anyway as part of their driver programme, so maybe something in their contract that he can fill in if Bottas/Hamilton cant drive. I dont know how much of Russel's wages Williams are paying so they may not have had much choice.


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## cliveb (Dec 2, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			I think Russell is contacted to Merc anyway as part of their driver programme, so maybe something in their contract that he can fill in if Bottas/Hamilton cant drive. I dont know how much of Russel's wages Williams are paying so they may not have had much choice.
		
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That might make sense, except that we know Merc tried to get Russell for 2021 but Williams (who have Russell under contract until the end of 2021) said no.
So it's clearly not the case that Merc have ultimate say in these matters.

Maybe I'm too cynical and perhaps everyone is just being nice and doing what's best for George?


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## Smiffy (Dec 2, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Big chance for Russell
		
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Big chance for the Hammy haters too if he does too well
😖😖😖😖


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 2, 2020)

Good news that Grosjean has left hopsital but clearly a road ahead to get fully fit again https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...spital-to-continue-burns-treatment-in-private


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 3, 2020)

And great to see Grosjean in the F1 paddock today. https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...-after-horror-f1-crash-reunited-with-rescuers


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## SteveW86 (Dec 4, 2020)

George Russell goes fastest in the first practice session. First practice sessions dont always set a clear picture and with a short track (only 11 corners) it is an intriguing result. He has got to be delighted with his performance and I hope it continues through the weekend.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 4, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			George Russell goes fastest in the first practice session. First practice sessions dont always set a clear picture and with a short track (only 11 corners) it is an intriguing result. He has got to be delighted with his performance and I hope it continues through the weekend.
		
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As you say not a clear picture, and it'll be interesting to see how he handles qualifying. What would represent a good qualifying for him? Second row? Can he get it on the front row? Clearly in the best car and a decent driver so a real chance surely


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## Reemul (Dec 4, 2020)

Albon in the second best car has been top 7 or 8. Like to see Russell in top 6


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## SteveW86 (Dec 4, 2020)

I think second row would be incredible for him I reckon.


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## Reemul (Dec 5, 2020)

2nd for Russel 0.026 behind Bottas. Verstappen 3rd, Albon 12th another poor performance. Perez 5th, Redbull should be snapping him up for at least this coming season


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## Old Skier (Dec 5, 2020)

Reemul said:



			2nd for Russel 0.026 behind Bottas. Verstappen 3rd, Albon 12th another poor performance. Perez 5th, Redbull should be snapping him up for at least this coming season
		
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Looking at the Red Bull pit wall I think poor old Albon’s time is nearly up.


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## SteveW86 (Dec 5, 2020)

Great performance by Russell, he must be delighted. Will be interesting to see how he copes with the race and the different approach he will need, but all looking good to far. 

Albon is a strange one, his performances are just a disappointment. Having seen Russell in the Merc this weekend it would be interesting to see how we would do in the Red Bull. I know that won’t happen though.


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## Reemul (Dec 5, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Looking at the Red Bull pit wall I think poor old Albon’s time is nearly up.
		
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Yeah there was a rueful shake of the head from Horner at the end there.


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## Reemul (Dec 5, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Great performance by Russell, he must be delighted. Will be interesting to see how he copes with the race and the different approach he will need, but all looking good to far.

Albon is a strange one, his performances are just a disappointment. Having seen Russell in the Merc this weekend it would be interesting to see how we would do in the Red Bull. I know that won’t happen though.
		
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yeah what would Verstappen be doing in that Merc, closer to Lewis than Bottas I reckon.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2020)

Very good from Russell. No reason why he can't get off the grid better and nick the lead tomorrow


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## BiMGuy (Dec 5, 2020)

Reemul said:



			yeah what would Verstappen be doing in that Merc, closer to Lewis than Bottas I reckon.
		
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I think he would be much closer than Bottas. As would many others. Mercedes don't want that after 2016.

Most teams at the sharp end of proceedings don't want 2 drivers that close that it causes problems. 

On Max. He's very fast, but still has a long way to go to be a top, top driver. I'm not convinced he's in the right environment to be able to cope being in the fight for a world championship.


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## Reemul (Dec 5, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			I think he would be much closer than Bottas. As would many others. Mercedes don't want that after 2016.

Most teams at the sharp end of proceedings don't want 2 drivers that close that it causes problems.

On Max. He's very fast, but still has a long way to go to be a top, top driver. I'm not convinced he's in the right environment to be able to cope being in the fight for a world championship.
		
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I agree, he needs someone pushing him in his own team as well, Perez will do that I reckon


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## BiMGuy (Dec 5, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I agree, he needs someone pushing him in his own team as well, Perez will do that I reckon
		
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I'd love to see Perez in the Bull next season.


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## SammmeBee (Dec 5, 2020)

Well done Georgie boy......just shows you he could have been world champ this year if allowed to drive that car.......


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## ColchesterFC (Dec 5, 2020)

Does the fact that Russell has managed to come 2nd in qualifying, only 0.03 seconds behind Bottas, detract from Hamilton's performances over the last season or more? I'm not a big F1 fan and will occasionally watch the first few laps, or a bit more if it looks like there might be some rain, but the fact that some 22 year old (yes I know he's a professional driver) can step into your car and comfortably beat 18 of the other 19 drivers out there seems to suggest that it's the car that is the main factor rather than the organic bit behind the wheel.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 5, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the fact that Russell has managed to come 2nd in qualifying, only 0.03 seconds behind Bottas, detract from Hamilton's performances over the last season or more? I'm not a big F1 fan and will occasionally watch the first few laps, or a bit more if it looks like there might be some rain, but the fact that some 22 year old (yes I know he's a professional driver) can step into your car and comfortably beat 18 of the other 19 drivers out there seems to suggest that it's the car that is the main factor rather than the organic bit behind the wheel.
		
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Like you not a massive fan but for me its a little from column A and a little from column B. Mercedes are without doubt leaps ahead of the other teams so the car must give him a massive advantage but also with so little opportunity bar testing, he's clearly shown he has an abundance of talent to come in and take the car to second. The car may be good but you have to get it round and quickly.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 5, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the fact that Russell has managed to come 2nd in qualifying, only 0.03 seconds behind Bottas, detract from Hamilton's performances over the last season or more? I'm not a big F1 fan and will occasionally watch the first few laps, or a bit more if it looks like there might be some rain, but the fact that some 22 year old (yes I know he's a professional driver) can step into your car and comfortably beat 18 of the other 19 drivers out there seems to suggest that it's the car that is the main factor rather than the organic bit behind the wheel.
		
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Not in my opinion. We all know the Mercedes is by far the best car this year, but you'll struggle to find anyone who's opinion counts that doesn't consider Lewis as one of the best of all time. 

Russell has driven a Mercedes on a number of occasions previously, and is up there with the very very best of the young drivers. He is certainly the next Mercedes driver when Bottas' contract is up next season.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 5, 2020)

ColchesterFC said:



			Does the fact that Russell has managed to come 2nd in qualifying, only 0.03 seconds behind Bottas, detract from Hamilton's performances over the last season or more? I'm not a big F1 fan and will occasionally watch the first few laps, or a bit more if it looks like there might be some rain, but the fact that some 22 year old (yes I know he's a professional driver) can step into your car and comfortably beat 18 of the other 19 drivers out there seems to suggest that it's the car that is the main factor rather than the organic bit behind the wheel.
		
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If you look at the difference between Bottas and Hamilton on the track, you can only come to the conclusion that Hamilton is a class above Bottas and everyone else in the field right now. If you can be that much quicker than your team mate then it's not just the car


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## Smiffy (Dec 6, 2020)

SammmeBee said:



			Well done Georgie boy......just shows you he could have been world champ this year if allowed to drive that car.......
		
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Could have..... but we'll never know.
It will be interesting to see if he can hold it together during the heat of battle today.
There is a big difference between punching a fast quali lap in to actually winning a race.
Where Lewis is strong is his reaction times to events that unfold in front of him, and it's these decisions made in milliseconds that separate world champions from just very good drivers.
Going to be interesting for sure.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 6, 2020)

People that say ' its just the car' seem to forget Russell blitzed F2 a couple of seasons ago, a series where the cars are all the same, and Lewis did similar back i hos GP2 days. Yes a fast car obviously helps, buts its only as good as the bloke holding the steering wheel


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 6, 2020)

SaintHacker said:



			People that say ' its just the car' seem to forget Russell blitzed F2 a couple of seasons ago, a series where the cars are all the same, and Lewis did similar back i hos GP2 days. Yes a fast car obviously helps, buts its only as good as the bloke holding the steering wheel
		
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People also forget that LH also just missed winning the 2007 title by one point in his debut season with Mclaren, and beating his much lauded team mate Alonso in the process.


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## Reemul (Dec 6, 2020)

I don't think anyone is saying Lewis is not a great driver, he certainly is, however the fact he is a 7 times world champion is not just because he a great driver. The mercedes for the last 4 years and probably next year is so far and away better than any other car that any very good driver would win the world championship in it. It certainly would be closer with Lewis not in the car but the world championship would come down to whoever was in the Merc not the other cars unfortunately.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 6, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I don't think anyone is saying Lewis is not a great driver, he certainly is, however the fact he is a 7 times world champion is not just because he a great driver. The mercedes for the last 4 years and probably next year is so far and away better than any other car that any very good driver would win the world championship in it. It certainly would be closer with Lewis not in the car but the world championship would come down to whoever was in the Merc not the other cars unfortunately.
		
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Can you name any driver winnning the World driver championship a number of times that wasn't in the best car? Schumacher certainly was (and he was helped by team orders that were very obvious and a very pro Ferrari FIA) ), Vettel in the Red Bull....
Between 1999 and 2008 Ferrari won the constructers championship 8 times. Red Bull between 2010 and 2013.
In fact if you look at the constructers championship list of winners, there are very few times a team hasnt won more than once in isolation and even then you have to examine any possible name changes of the team.
Did we here many moaning about "our Nige" winning in the Williams when they were dominating along with Mclaren? A man so loved by the public yet wouldn't help the Lotus team in their hour of need, the same Lotus team that gave him his chance when no-one else would?


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## Reemul (Dec 6, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Can you name any driver winnning the World driver championship a number of times that wasn't in the best car? Schumacher certainly was (and he was helped by team orders that were very obvious and a very pro Ferrari FIA) ), Vettel in the Red Bull....
Between 1999 and 2008 Ferrari won the constructers championship 8 times. Red Bull between 2010 and 2013.
In fact if you look at the constructers championship list of winners, there are very few times a team hasnt won more than once in isolation and even then you have to examine any possible name changes of the team.
Did we here many moaning about "our Nige" winning in the Williams when they were dominating along with Mclaren? A man so loved by the public yet wouldn't help the Lotus team in their hour of need, the same Lotus team that gave him his chance when no-one else would?
		
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Again no one is saying that. Vettel won 4 times on the trot in the best car by miles. What is unusal as in has not happened in recent memory is one car being so good for so long. We are talking 7 or 8 years on the trot. Normally other great drivers cars come good and they can challenge closely or their team mate was as good as a driver and could challlenge, in the 80's there was 6 different winners (4 Constructors), 7 in the 90's (3 Constructors), 5 in the 0's (3 Constructors) and 3 in the 10's (3 Constructors). It is getting worse. You pretty much have zero chance to win if you aren't in Merc for the last 7 years and that makes F1 a lot more boring and people questioning anyone winning 7 world championships especially one after another. The only time Lewis didn't win Rosberg did and that was because Lewis had some terrible luck.

No one  is thinking anyone but Lewis is going to win next year and I mean no one, most of us are waiting for the following year with the rule reset and new cars, hopefully we get an evening out so we can have more competitive racing but please don't try and make out Hamilton is some god at driving,we would in all likely hood be saying the same about another driver who had the last 7 years in that car. Hamilton is great driver in the worlds best car for the last 7 years and good for him.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 6, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Again no one is saying that. Vettel won 4 times on the trot in the best car by miles. What is unusal as in has not happened in recent memory is one car being so good for so long. We are talking 7 or 8 years on the trot. Normally other great drivers cars come good and they can challenge closely or their team mate was as good as a driver and could challlenge, in the 80's there was 6 different winners (4 Constructors), 7 in the 90's (3 Constructors), 5 in the 0's (3 Constructors) and 3 in the 10's (3 Constructors). It is getting worse. You pretty much have zero chance to win if you aren't in Merc for the last 7 years and that makes F1 a lot more boring and people questioning anyone winning 7 world championships especially one after another. The only time Lewis didn't win Rosberg did and that was because Lewis had some terrible luck.

No one  is thinking anyone but Lewis is going to win next year and I mean no one, most of us are waiting for the following year with the rule reset and new cars, hopefully we get an evening out so we can have more competitive racing but please don't try and make out Hamilton is some god at driving,we would in all likely hood be saying the same about another driver who had the last 7 years in that car. Hamilton is great driver in the worlds best car for the last 7 years and good for him.
		
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You had 3 constructers winning team during the 80's, Ferrari, Williams and Mclaren, and they spanned 1979 to 1994, with Benetton poking their noses in during  95 with a return to the same 3 until 2005.
Perhaps instead of bemoaning how strong Mercedes and LH are we should all be questioning why Ferrari and even Red Bull have been so bad.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 6, 2020)

The best drivers find their way into the best cars which often leads to periods of domination. 

The Redbull wasn't that much better in the first couple of years of their 4 year reign. Seb won one championship without leading it at any time before the last race. 

The Mercedes has been the best car on the whole since 2014. But in 2017 and 2018 the Ferrari was its equal,  often faster. Although Ferrari were cheating in 2018. 
Mercedes won both those championships because of 2 things. They are an all round better team. And Lewis. Even Ferrari said if Lewis was driving their car in 2018 he would likely have made the difference. 
Mercedes have completely re-defined how to develop an F1 car and run an F1 team. I've no doubt that there will be many books written about performance management and team building based on this Mercedes team. It's arguably one of the best teams in the history of all sports.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 6, 2020)

Got to feel for Russell. Had a chance to win and then a horrendous pit stop (cynically Hamilton never seems to have these under pressure) and now a puncture ruins his race.


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## ger147 (Dec 6, 2020)

Amazing to think Perez doesn't have a seat for next season. Great win after being smashed off the track on lap 1 by Leclerc. Stayed calm, drove impeccably and took advantage of other team's mistakes to win.

Let's hope he gets the last seat up for grabs next season.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 6, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Got to feel for Russell. Had a chance to win and then a horrendous pit stop (cynically Hamilton never seems to have these under pressure) and now a puncture ruins his race.
		
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They have a couple of times. Monaco a few years ago springs to mind.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 6, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Got to feel for Russell. Had a chance to win and then a horrendous pit stop (cynically Hamilton never seems to have these under pressure) and now a puncture ruins his race.
		
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Ironically all caused by 'his' car.
Absolutely gutted for George tonight,  i really hope Merc do the right thing and give Lewis an extra few days off to recover and give George another drive next week, its the least they owe him after that debacle


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## Norrin Radd (Dec 6, 2020)

Ring ring , Toto it's Lewis ,I'm watching the race mate ,you gotta do something cos he's making me look like it's the car and not me that won the championship.
You gotta stop him mate or im not signing on next year.


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## Reemul (Dec 6, 2020)

I wonder how GR will feel now he knows a real car feels like, that Williams is going to feel pants now.


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## Smiffy (Dec 7, 2020)

An absolutely brilliant race, best one I've watched for ages. Edge of the seat stuff, right from "lights out" to the flag.
Really pleased that Checo got his first win, but gutted for George. He had it in the bag, he really did.
There's going to be some serious head scratching at Mercedes today.
George made Bottas look distinctly average yesterday. Beat him away from the lights, he was pulling away, (easily), and was controlling his race.
He even overtook him again after the pit stops!
It's got us all asking a very important question as well.... exactly *HOW *good is Hamilton???
I'm not a "Hammy hater", you've got to admire his achievements, but if George could go out in that car first time out and stamp his authority on a race in that way, what would the likes of Verstappen, Checo, Sainz or even Vettel (in his current state) achieve in it?
Could they actually dump Lewis and save a helluva lot of money employing George, who has proved he can do it? Highly unlikely.
Could they dump Bottas and give George the second seat and let them race? Now that *would *be interesting, and something F1 fans would love to watch.


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## need_my_wedge (Dec 7, 2020)

Norrin Radd said:



			Ring ring , Toto it's Lewis ,I'm watching the race mate ,you gotta do something cos he's making me look like it's the car and not me that won the championship.
You gotta stop him mate or im not signing on next year.
		
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Made a very similar comment during the race... 

I'm no F1 fan, haven't watched it for years, but my lad is, and as a result we watched last nights one (saved me the turmoil of watching the Arsenal). Actually really enjoyed watching it last night, was routing for George form the start of the weekend, so had a little interest to follow. Couldn't believe he was undone so badly by the team........ Hope he gets another chance next week.


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## harpo_72 (Dec 12, 2020)

If your going into a contract negotiations, you will look at it simply as pay George £200k /annum let him make earnings on image. Bin Lewis save £40+million, run Bottas contract down and out knowing you have some young guns in F2 that will be of interest... German engine team = Schumacher if he shows promise in the lower formula ...
Time for the engineering to re-establish control like Frank used to have it. It was harsh but actually it was fair.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 12, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			If your going into a contract negotiations, you will look at it simply as pay George £200k /annum let him make earnings on image. Bin Lewis save £40+million, run Bottas contract down and out knowing you have some young guns in F2 that will be of interest... German engine team = Schumacher if he shows promise in the lower formula ...
Time for the engineering to re-establish control like Frank used to have it. It was harsh but actually it was fair.
		
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Binning Lewis won't save them £40mill per year. Think of all the money they make having him at the team. 
They would also have him racing against them. Put him in the Redbull and Mercedes would have a real problem on their hands.


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## harpo_72 (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Binning Lewis won't save them £40mill per year. Think of all the money they make having him at the team.
They would also have him racing against them. Put him in the Redbull and Mercedes would have a real problem on their hands.
		
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George Russell will bring a similar level when he wins the championship


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## ger147 (Dec 12, 2020)

Russell will be driving a Williams in 2021.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 12, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			George Russell will bring a similar level when he wins the championship
		
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You honestly think Russell is as marketable as Lewis?


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## ger147 (Dec 12, 2020)

Was great listening to Alonso blasting round the track in a Renault R25 V10 after qualifying, a reminder of what a racing car is supposed to sound like.


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## Reemul (Dec 12, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Was great listening to Alonso blasting round the track in a Renault R25 V10 after qualifying, a reminder of what a racing car is supposed to sound like.
		
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The car looked fantastic as well, really shining in the light


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## SaintHacker (Dec 12, 2020)

Silverstones International pit straight to be named Hamilton Straight.


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## harpo_72 (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			You honestly think Russell is as marketable as Lewis?
		
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They all are it’s just the person doing the marketing... it’s just a job


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## SteveW86 (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			You honestly think Russell is as marketable as Lewis?
		
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Should the question not be, do you think George is as marketable as Lewis was when he was in his 2nd/3rd season?


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## Pathetic Shark (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			You honestly think Russell is as marketable as Lewis?
		
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Well he's not a nob for starters


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## BiMGuy (Dec 12, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			Should the question not be, do you think George is as marketable as Lewis was when he was in his 2nd/3rd season?
		
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The answer to that is no.


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## Reemul (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			The answer to that is no.
		
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I politely disagree.. he is as marketable without a doubt


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## SteveW86 (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			The answer to that is no.
		
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In your opinion.

Either way, nobody in their right minds would get rid of someone with a proven record like Lewis, no matter how much potential George has. Hamilton only leaves Mercedes when he decides to. Russell is much more likely to replace Bottas, then a Hamilton/Russell line up for 1/2 seasons before Lewis retires.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 12, 2020)

SteveW86 said:



			In your opinion.

Either way, nobody in their right minds would get rid of someone with a proven record like Lewis, no matter how much potential George has. Hamilton only leaves Mercedes when he decides to. Russell is much more likely to replace Bottas, then a Hamilton/Russell line up for 1/2 seasons before Lewis retires.
		
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Of course in my opinion. In his first two seasons. Lewis had beaten Alonso and missed out on a WC by 1 point and then won the WC. Which make him much more marketable than Russell. Who I believe is a top top driver. 

I fully agree with your post. Bottas has one more season at Mercedes. I can't wait to see Russell up against Lewis.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 12, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			I fully agree with your post. Bottas has one more season at Mercedes. I can't wait to see Russell up against Lewis.
		
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I don't think we'll see it. I've got a funny feeling Lewis may be about to retire very soon


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## BiMGuy (Dec 12, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I politely disagree.. he is as marketable without a doubt
		
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree then. 

Lewis is a global megastar in the same bracket as Woods and Federer. He's a household name. 
No one outside of those interested in F1 will have the first clue who George Russell is.


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## 4LEX (Dec 12, 2020)

Lewis isn't on the same level as Federer or Woods. No one cares about F1.


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## SaintHacker (Dec 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			No one cares about F1.
		
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Yet you care about something that no one cares about enough to comment on it
What a ridiculous, infantile statement.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Lewis isn't on the same level as Federer or Woods. No one cares about F1.
		
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Disagree. Has dominated his sport in the same way as Federer and Woods do in theirs. Global sporting star in his own right. Does some fantastic and often overlooked charity work and a global brand in his own right


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## Reemul (Dec 13, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Disagree. Has dominated his sport in the same way as Federer and Woods do in theirs. Global sporting star in his own right. Does some fantastic and often overlooked charity work and a global brand in his own right
		
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I don't understand this over looked rubbish. no one is over looking it, doesn't make him any less unlikeable. Earning 40 million a year tax free the least he could do is some charidee work, heck us normal folk do charity work you know and donate and help out and no one ever thanks us for it unless I have missed my MBE in the post recently.


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## BiMGuy (Dec 13, 2020)

Reemul said:



			I don't understand this over looked rubbish. no one is over looking it, doesn't make him any less unlikeable. Earning 40 million a year tax free the least he could do is some charidee work, heck us normal folk do charity work you know and donate and help out and no one ever thanks us for it unless I have missed my MBE in the post recently.
		
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So angry. You need to stop reading the Daily Mail. 
Who earns 40 mil a year tax free?


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## CliveW (Dec 14, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Was great listening to Alonso blasting round the track in a Renault R25 V10 after qualifying, a reminder of what a racing car is supposed to sound like.
		
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You should go to The Silverstone Classic!


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## Smiffy (Dec 14, 2020)

4LEX said:



			Lewis isn't on the same level as Federer or Woods. No one cares about F1.
		
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*"The total global TV cumulative audience for F1 stood at 1.922bn, the highest since 2012, which represents an increase of 9% compared to 2018."*

*"The US Open 2020 may have been a milestone for tennis, but it certainly didn't set any viewership records. Ratings fell by 45% compared to the 2019 edition."*

*I see what you mean.*
**


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## SaintHacker (Dec 15, 2020)

Williams have released a statement saying Sir Frank has bee admitted to hospital. Currently in a stable condition but they won't say any more at the moment.


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## ger147 (Dec 18, 2020)

Perez signs for Red Bull, taking Albon's seat and joining Max for 2021. That's some driver line up at Red Bull, both super fast and very consistent.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 18, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Perez signs for Red Bull, taking Albon's seat and joining Max for 2021. That's some driver line up at Red Bull, both super fast and very consistent.
		
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And the chance for sparks to fly, and a very unhappy JVs


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## ger147 (Dec 18, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And the chance for sparks to fly, and a very unhappy JVs
		
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There will deffo be sparks flying at some point but I doubt Christian or Helmut will be losing any sleep over what Jos thinks.


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## Beedee (Dec 18, 2020)

Assuming similar sort of car performance to this year I think Red Bull have just bought a safe 4th place in the drivers championship.  Perez has made his career by being quite (but not very) fast, and very very kind to tyres.  Max on the other hand is very very fast.  I don't see Checo taking many points off Max, assuming a normal race.

Tbh, I also wonder about the Red Bull car/team.  Max is clearly very talented and very fast.  He's also the clear team number 1 so will have more say in the direction of car development than the 2nd driver.  So far Gasly, Albon and maybe Kyvat proved themselves fast in the junior car (Gasly twice) but unable to drive the senior car.  Is it the basic setup of the car only suits a few drivers, or is it the pressure of the big team?


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## Smiffy (Dec 19, 2020)

Multi 21 Max, Multi 21.....


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## harpo_72 (Dec 19, 2020)

Beedee said:



			Assuming similar sort of car performance to this year I think Red Bull have just bought a safe 4th place in the drivers championship.  Perez has made his career by being quite (but not very) fast, and very very kind to tyres.  Max on the other hand is very very fast.  I don't see Checo taking many points off Max, assuming a normal race.

Tbh, I also wonder about the Red Bull car/team.  Max is clearly very talented and very fast.  He's also the clear team number 1 so will have more say in the direction of car development than the 2nd driver.  So far Gasly, Albon and maybe Kyvat proved themselves fast in the junior car (Gasly twice) but unable to drive the senior car.  Is it the basic setup of the car only suits a few drivers, or is it the pressure of the big team?
		
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Checo was pretty rapid in GP2, depends if his race engineers can dial into him and his needs.


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