# Smack or not?



## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

The European court of human rights wants the UK Government to ban smacking a child in the home, making it illegal.

Smacking did me no harm as a kid, I wasn't unruly or a particularly naughty child, but on occasion my mam did give my leg a smack as the occasion required.

I find it laughable when I see parents telling their child to behave, yeah that really works, stop being naughty or I'll tell you to stop being naughty again and again. A gentle smack gives a sharp reminder to the child that they are misbehaving, they soon learn the consequences should they misbehave and subsequent ventures of misbehaviour can be dealt with the threat of being smacked.

Okay so the goody two shoes, will say that the threat of violence hovering over the head of a child is no way to bring them up, but we are not talking about continual physical abuse, we are talking about teaching a child that actions have consequences, good actions get rewards, bad actions do not, it's about having some common sense.

Just off now to find a Kevlar suit and helmet, as this one could well be quite contentious.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

The threat of violence hovering over a child's head is no way to bring a child up

You can teach a child that actions have consequences without resorting to hitting them/physical violence. And if a parent has been reduced to those actions to gain respect from the child then I'd suggest it's the parents who need looking at, not the child. If all a parent does is issue hollow threats then very quickly the child will learn to ignore them.  Then as a last desperate measure the parent then resorts to the threat of hitting them (and you can call it a smack if people think that sounds more palatable, but at the end of the day you are still hitting them), sometimes carrying it through.  I'd possibly suggest a better approach would be to carry through on your threats to take away the tablet, TV, etc etc and funnily enough the vast majority of children soon learn you are serious.

But hey, I can pretty much guarantee what the majority of people will say, so bring on the 'it never did me any harm, kids today are out of control, they have no respect, spend all day on their PS4s blah blah blah' anecdotes by the bucket load.


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## jp5 (Jul 24, 2015)

You can't go around hitting anyone you like, I don't see why it should be any different for kids.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Never smack! Smacking is you failing to parent effectively. My child is extremely good and has never been and will never be smacked.  

If I threaten you with violence on this forum I will get a ban.... the reasons for that are obvious.... why is that different with a child.

You said that you were smacked and it did you no harm.... what it did do though was make you want to smack your child... and round we go.

Stop and have a little think about it rather than just doing what your mother and father did to you... Its the human program to be better than the last generation. Its ok to have your own ideas.


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## Slab (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex you saved me some typing 


Being smacked is one of the life experiences I was determined not to pass on to the next generation of slab's

Didn't teach me anything only served as a punishment


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## DCB (Jul 24, 2015)

Just nipping out for some popcorn, telly looks crap tonight so this looks like a promising start to the weekend


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

DCB said:



			Just nipping out for some popcorn, telly looks crap tonight so this looks like a promising start to the weekend 

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Do mods enjoy these contentious threads where you can pretty much guarantee what will be said, and who will say it.


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## Snelly (Jul 24, 2015)

I got smacked as a kid and as most people would say, it never did me any harm and was a good mechanism for our very skint, single mum to keep the three of us in order.

That said, times have changed and I have two children who are 9 and 11 and they don't get smacked, nor have they ever been apart from a single incident 8 years ago when I smacked my son's backside for something that deserved it in my view.  I have no regrets about this at all. 

 They are growing up nicely and I would like to think that at their ages, they are beyond the limit of when a slap on the legs would be an efficient way of changing their behaviour anyway.  All that said, I cannot say that I would not smack them if the need arose.  It just never really has with the one exception mentioned. 

In a wider sense though, I am not in favour of the state outlawing smacking although I would like to see enforced parenting skills classes for plenty of mums and dads in the UK, with some guidance on the appropriateness of physical chastisement included in the syllabus.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			You said that you were smacked and it did you no harm.... what it did do though was make you want to smack your child... and round we go.

Stop and have a little think about it rather than just doing what your mother and father did to you... Its the human program to be better than the last generation. Its ok to have your own ideas.
		
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You make it sound like smacking is a daily ritual, it's not, far from it, if that was the case then that is continual abuse and a different thread altogether. Myself being smacked as child did not want nor make me smack my daughter. On the occasion she was smacked it was deemed appropriate and as I wrote above I can count on one hand the number of times that smacking was the last resort.



Slab said:



			Didn't teach me anything only served as a punishment
		
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Smacking is a punishment.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

Snelly said:



			In a wider sense though, I am not in favour of the state outlawing smacking although I would like to see enforced parenting skills classes for plenty of mums and dads in the UK, with some guidance on the appropriateness of physical chastisement included in the syllabus.
		
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This is the other side of the argument, in the main the majority of replies have been about the act of smacking a child, but the other side of this is that the European Court of Human Rights wants the act of smacking a child made illegal. Now whether you think this is right or not, you cannot have these courts dictating how a family brings up their kids.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			This is the other side of the argument, in the main the majority of replies have been about the act of smacking a child, but the other side of this is that the European Court of Human Rights wants the act of smacking a child made illegal. Now whether you think this is right or not,* you cannot have these courts dictating how a family brings up their kids*.
		
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I suppose it depends on if you class hitting a child as a way of bringing up that child.  As the courts (European, English, British, Scottish of even Jedi if you want) can decide if hitting someone is lawful or not.


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2015)

I think its going to be very hard, how do you define a smack? How much force is used? I give my lad a tap (could this be perceived as a smack?!) if he is about to bite me for example, (he is 1) The older ones are past where i would ever consider smacking and would damage them mentally more than physically. I dont want my kids to be scared of me, i want them to respect me and more importantly themselves.


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## DCB (Jul 24, 2015)

Okay then, a question,

Little boy drags a chair across the kitchen and goes to climb up on it. he hauls himself up using whatever means possible.

Does the mum say a) Don't do that  b) please now, don't do that or c) give him a smack on his leg when he doesn't respond to the first two or c) put whatever comes next down to experiential learning ?


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

DCB said:



			Okay then, a question,

Little boy drags a chair across the kitchen and goes to climb up on it. he hauls himself up using whatever means possible.

Does the mum say a) Don't do that  b) please now, don't do that or c) give him a smack on his leg when he doesn't respond to the first two or c) put whatever comes next down to experiential learning ?
		
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a?? As assuming the parent has fostered a culture of respect and authority between them and the child, then the child will respond to that.

Is there a prize for this?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 24, 2015)

He who says that a smack from a parent never affected him - how does he know?  Can he look across at his 'non-smacked' self to see if they are identical. No - he can't.

I was smacked as a child.  And I had fear in me if I knew I was going to get it off my dad when he got home from work.  As a result I think that fear affected my feelings for him as I grew up and that would have affected our relationship.  I also think- though how would I know for sure - that it affected my self-confidence; maybe I felt ashamed that I was being smacked - and that my father smacked me.  After all as far as I was concerned none of my pals got smacked - it's not exactly something you talked about.

i did well at school and never got into any trouble with authority, but I was shy and low in self-confidence (manifestation of the fear I felt?) - and I still am.  How much of that I can put down to being smacked as a child and having a father who did the smacking - I don't know for sure.  But certainly it affected how I felt about my father, and I suspect it has affected my life and who I am today.


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## G.U.R (Jul 24, 2015)

I've been just as shocked by some of the verbal abuse parents give their children as I would have been had they just smacked them. It must also equally harm them as much as a smack, which my wife sees first hand as a TA at a local Primary School. She comes home and say's she dreads to think what sort of home life these kids have. I have 3 daughters all pretty much grown up now and have never had to resort to smacking, lucky? maybe but routine and setting boundaries early seemed to work...although they still don't tidy their bloody bedrooms!


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2015)

G.U.R said:



			I've been just as shocked by some of the verbal abuse parents give their children as I would have been had they just smacked them. It must also equally harm them as much as a smack, which my wife sees first hand as a TA at a local Primary School. She comes home and say's she dreads to think what sort of home life these kids have. I have 3 daughters all pretty much grown up now and have never had to resort to smacking, lucky? maybe but routine and setting boundaries early seemed to work...although they still don't tidy their bloody bedrooms!
		
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oh some of the verbals i see are unbelievable, I am not going to sterotype the parent...

Which school GUR?


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## DCB (Jul 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			a?? As assuming the parent has fostered a culture of respect and authority between them and the child, then the child will respond to that.

Is there a prize for this?
		
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But , when the child sees something he is after on the worktop and keeps going to try and get it, what happens ?


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			I think its going to be very hard, how do you define a smack? How much force is used? I give my lad a tap (could this be perceived as a smack?!) if he is about to bite me for example, (he is 1) The older ones are past where i would ever consider smacking and would damage them mentally more than physically. I dont want my kids to be scared of me, i want them to respect me and more importantly themselves.
		
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If i play fight with my teenage son, the dog piles in to defend him.!


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2015)

DCB said:



			But , when the child sees something he is after on the worktop and keeps going to try and get it, what happens ?
		
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pick him up and move him somewhere else.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2015)

I'm with the OP on this. I was smacked as a child, I have grown into a respectful and polite adult that has never been involved in trouble. From memory, I think my daughter was smacked only 2 or 3 times and she has grown into a well behaved, respectful adult. 

Well done to all the goody 2 shoes PC brigade, kids now carry guns, knives and all sorts of other weapons. Real success story there  :thup:


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## G.U.R (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			oh some of the verbals i see are unbelievable, I am not going to sterotype the parent...

Which school GUR?
		
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Up at the Willows mate, my three kids went there as I believed in sending your kids to your local Primary. I was a Governor there as well so had first hand experience of some of the families, they had to start a breakfast club to make sure kids had something to eat in the morning! My kids came out more rounded and did/are doing well at secondary school so it shows it's not the schools.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 24, 2015)

Its like all things , extremes cause the problem .

If you smack a child regularly ,that will have no effect on the child what so ever , just becomes the norm . if the child pushes it too much or is extremely bold or whatever a stingy slap to the leg will teach some kids when they have crossed the line ..

So far ive been lucky , ive never had to smack mine & cannot honestly say ive never seen Hid do it either ,
 as we dont normally raise our voices too much sometimes a loud cross OIH will have the shock factor to suffice , 

Ive seen kids smacked sometimes ive wanted to smack the parent to be honest , 
other times ive seen the parent give a stingy slap to the leg or back of the hand & its worked .. 

Personally i would have no problem with the slap to the hand or leg with an open hand , after that its too much 

Dragging and shaking a child can be as bad ..


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

DCB said:



			But , when the child sees something he is after on the worktop and keeps going to try and get it, what happens ?
		
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You move them out of harms way and then tell them not to do it again?


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2015)

There are far more effective methods of parenting without the need to resort to hitting a child. When you hit a child, you are effectively teaching them it is OK to hit another person under certain circumstances as deemed appropriate by you. 

Bringing up a child is hard work, but as their parent it is your job to keep them safe and teach them respect. How do you do that by occasionally under certain circumstances hitting them? It's abuse and dressing it up as "a clip around the ear" or smacking doesn't make it OK.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2015)

So kids have been smacked for 000's of years yet grew up into well balanced adults. Were we doing it wrong all that time?


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## delc (Jul 24, 2015)

woody69 said:



			There are far more effective methods of parenting without the need to resort to hitting a child. When you hit a child, you are effectively teaching them it is OK to hit another person under certain circumstances as deemed appropriate by you. 

Bringing up a child is hard work, but as their parent it is your job to keep them safe and teach them respect. How do you do that by occasionally under certain circumstances hitting them? It's abuse and dressing it up as "a clip around the ear" or smacking doesn't make it OK.
		
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I was a rather wilful child and was regularly slapped by my mother for misbehaving. Taught me good behaviour and I'm grateful for that. Also when I was at school teachers were still allowed to administer corporal punishment in a formalised way, so that was another reminder. Don't understand how teachers can maintain discipline in schools these days as there are no real sanctions! Lord protect us from do-gooders!


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

My daughter is 14 months old and when i took a small coin off her that she had found she hit me. i gave her a gentle smack on the back of her hand.  She was shocked and whimpered.    She's never done it since. 


I do think smacking a child is ok.  But beating and smacking seem to be interpreted differently by folk.  On the other hand,  my brother smacks his child and he doesn't care one bit when he gets smacked.  So whats the point on smacking him?

I think its a simple case of showing a child you mean business.   Good parenting is finding a way to do that .  
My dad smacked me once and it hurt like hell.  That was enough for me to think " I'll do as I'm told from now on"

Kids today are off the rails.  A todler kicked my daughter in the back of the head in a soft pkay area and the mom said '' the're just being kids"    got a feeling that childs future is bleak


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm with the OP on this. I was smacked as a child, I have grown into a respectful and polite adult that has never been involved in trouble. From memory, I think my daughter was smacked only 2 or 3 times and she has grown into a well behaved, respectful adult. 

Well done to all the goody 2 shoes PC brigade, kids now carry guns, knives and all sorts of other weapons. Real success story there  :thup:
		
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And I am sure you can point to many clinical studies where there has been a proven causal link between being hit as a child and growing up into a respectful and polite adult who never gets into trouble?  And they are not just 2 completely unrelated things with no scientific proof of a link whatsoever.

You may as well say you read Enid Blyton to your daughter and she has grown up into a well behave respectful adult (and not that I'm doubting how well behaved your daughter is, but let's face it, which parent would not say that about their child). So we should make reading Enid Blyton compulsory.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			So kids have been smacked for 000's of years yet grew up into well balanced adults. Were we doing it wrong all that time?
		
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It would seem so , wouldnt it .. 

Guess the need for ASBOS for school kids . kids bringing knives to school to hurt others , teachers been stabbed & assaulted  , school drop out rates was always there we just didnt hear of it .. 


hovis said:



			My daughter is 14 months old and when i took a small coin off her that she had found she hit me. i gave her a gentle smack on the back of her hand.  She was shocked and whimpered.    She never done it since. 


I do think smacking a child is ok.  But beating and smacking seen to be interpreted different by folk. 

I think its a simple case of showing a child you mean business business.   Good parenting is finding that out.  
My dad smacked me once and it hurt like hell.  That was enough for me to think " I'll do as I'm told from now on"
		
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I like this post , well said


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2015)

Well I think most adults at my age were prob subjected to at least one smack on the bottom or arm etc which I believe back then was acceptable and within limits I believe is acceptable right now but there must be limits of course 

There does seem to be a great deal more issues with discipline within kids and young adults - could certainly see the lack of respect for elders and rank within the military 

Is there a right answer ? I don't think but I also don't think smacking within reason should be banned.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm with the OP on this. I was smacked as a child, I have grown into a respectful and polite adult that has never been involved in trouble. From memory, I think my daughter was smacked only 2 or 3 times and she has grown into a well behaved, respectful adult. 

Well done to all the goody 2 shoes PC brigade, kids now carry guns, knives and all sorts of other weapons. Real success story there  :thup:
		
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What about those who are smacked and react differently to it than you did?  And whilst they might not become violent child-beaters as adults their life may have been significantly affected by the psychological damage the smacking caused.  All very well say 'I'm alright Jack' - but unfortunately I guess that's how so much is today.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

From some of the posts so far, it seems like for some smacking was a daily if not very regular occurrence, whatever the reason for this only the posters will know, but this thread is not about smacking a child for no reason, I'm writing about the need to discipline your child if the need arise and that the European court, United Nations of Human right wants it to be made illegal. What gives those people the right to say how a family brings up and disciplines their child?

Sometimes there is a need to smack a child, the shock of the smack is required to enforce a point. So your child repeatedly makes for the oven or cooker hob, you told them no, many times, you've picked them up and moved them away, yet they still persist, what do you do then, lock them in another room where you cannot keep an eye on them? or smack them and tell them no?

Stop, or I'll tell you to stop again, not always the best method.


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## freddielong (Jul 24, 2015)

Do as I say or I will beat you, people have even stopped training dogs that way.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What about those who are smacked and react differently to it than you did?  And whilst they might not become violent child-beaters as adults their life may have been significantly affected by the psychological damage the smacking caused.  All very well say 'I'm alright Jack' - but unfortunately I guess that's how so much is today.
		
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What you are suggesting here is that a child is getting regular smacks, what this thread is about is the parents rights to discipline their child by smacking them appropriately should the circumstance necessitate.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			From some of the posts so far, it seems like for some smacking was a daily if not very regular occurrence, whatever the reason for this only the posters will know, but this thread is not about smacking a child for no reason, I'm writing about the need to discipline your child if the need arise and that the European court, United Nations of Human right wants it to be made illegal. What gives those people the right to say how a family brings up and disciplines their child?

Sometimes there is a need to smack a child, the shock of the smack is required to enforce a point. So your child repeatedly makes for the oven or cooker hob, you told them no, many times, you've picked them up and moved them away, yet they still persist, what do you do then, lock them in another room where you cannot keep an eye on them? or smack them and tell them no?

Stop, or I'll tell you to stop again, not always the best method.
		
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You may think that sometimes there is reason to smack a child - though I'd suggest that there is never any *need* to do so - but whilst the smack may have the intended outcome and the child will eventually stop crying - who is to know how the smacking is affecting the child deep down psychologically?  And who can predict what short, medium and long term affect that damage might have - both on the child and on his relationship and perception of his parent.   Nobody.  Nobody CAN know - we cannot look into the future - yet in smacking a child the short term result is all, and we ignore the possible longer term impact.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

freddielong said:



			Do as I say or I will beat you, people have even stopped training dogs that way.
		
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Again the thread being taken out of context. This is not about saying to a child eat your cabbage or you get a smack.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You may think that sometimes there is reason to smack a child - though I'd suggest that there is never any *need* to do so - but whilst the smack may have the intended outcome and the child will eventually stop crying - who is to know how the smacking is affecting the child deep down psychologically?  And who can predict what short, medium and long term affect that damage might have - both on the child and on his relationship and perception of his parent.   Nobody.  Nobody CAN know - we cannot look into the future - yet in smacking a child the short term result is all, and we ignore the possible longer term impact.
		
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To smack a child to stop crying is not and should not be your first option. The child is crying for a reason, find out what that reason is, comfort them, if however the child is crying because it did not gets its own way, tell it to be quiet, tell it again, and then smack.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			And I am sure you can point to many clinical studies where there has been a proven causal link between being hit as a child and growing up into a respectful and polite adult who never gets into trouble?  And they are not just 2 completely unrelated things with no scientific proof of a link whatsoever.

You may as well say you read Enid Blyton to your daughter and she has grown up into a well behave respectful adult (and not that I'm doubting how well behaved your daughter is, but let's face it, which parent would not say that about their child). So we should make reading Enid Blyton compulsory.
		
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I'd like to see any clinical studies you can provide to prove that smacking has detrimental effects?

I don't have any 'proof' to which method is better but I do know a few simple things. I could walk home from the pub quite safely when I was younger, very much doubt that is the case now. Not very scientific but a pretty clear indication to me.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm with the OP on this. I was smacked as a child, I have grown into a respectful and polite adult that has never been involved in trouble. From memory, I think my daughter was smacked only 2 or 3 times and she has grown into a well behaved, respectful adult. 

Well done to all the goody 2 shoes PC brigade, kids now carry guns, knives and all sorts of other weapons. Real success story there  :thup:
		
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I know people that were never smacked as kids and they grew up into respectful and polite adults. I have met a few that were smacked on occasion and they're nothing but trouble, so what does that prove? Absolutely nothing.

And for the record, kids have always carried guns, knives and all sorts of other weapons. Are you honestly trying to suggest that because parents are smacking their children less, kids are becoming more violent? Really?




delc said:



			I was a rather wilful child and was regularly slapped by my mother for misbehaving. Taught me good behaviour and I'm grateful for that. Also when I was at school teachers were still allowed to administer corporal punishment in a formalised way, so that was another reminder. Don't understand how teachers can maintain discipline in schools these days as there are no real sanctions! Lord protect us from do-gooders!
		
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If you were regularly slapped by your mother for misbehaving it doesn't say much more it as a tool for good behaviour does it?

Teachers maintain discipline in schools by teaching children respect and boundaries. Trying to engage them meaningfully and through positive reinforcement. Threats of violence is never and will never be the answer.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			Again the thread being taken out of context. This is not about saying to a child eat your cabbage or you get a smack.
		
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Very true its also gone from a "gentle smack " in your OP to out right violence ,

I agree with your OP .. just gona opt outa this thread now tho , for obvious reasons , good luck with it staying a sensible conversation ,


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## Hobbit (Jul 24, 2015)

My mum was a bully in this dept. Excessive force, inc belts/shoes etc on a regular basis way beyond the age when simple reasoning would have sufficed. In fact, if she'd used more reason she wouldn't have had a rebellious little sod who argued back so often. Still loved her though, but the level of respect for her was a little lacking.

Did it turn me into an habitual thrasher? No, not at all. It had the opposite effect.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			What you are suggesting here is that a child is getting regular smacks, what this thread is about is the parents rights to discipline their child by smacking them appropriately should the circumstance necessitate.
		
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Does a parent have a right to cause what could be significant long term psychological damage on a child for what is short term benefit - when the parent has no idea how the psychological pain or damage inflicted might manifest itself through time.  'It's only a smack' you might say 'for his own good' - but you don't actually know whether it is for his own long term good at all.  You have no idea of the damage you are doing.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'd like to see any clinical studies you can provide to prove that smacking has detrimental effects?

I don't have any 'proof' to which method is better but I do know a few simple things. I could walk home from the pub quite safely when I was younger, very much doubt that is the case now. Not very scientific but a pretty clear indication to me.
		
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It's hardly definitive, after all it's not particularly easy to create a fair trial, but here is an an example or two 

- http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/05May/Pages/Smacking-children-doesnt-work-study-finds.aspx
- http://www.kidspot.com.au/research-shows-that-smacking-does-not-work/

I'm sure if you looked though you'd find studies that suggested smacking had no detrimental effect or even helped

Regarding "walking home from the pub quite safely when I was younger", that's an entirely different debate but I suggest you stop reading the news other than the local paper and you'll see it's not that scary out there really.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2015)

woody69 said:



			And for the record, kids have always carried guns, knives and all sorts of other weapons. Are you honestly trying to suggest that because parents are smacking their children less, kids are becoming more violent? Really?




If you were regularly slapped by your mother for misbehaving it doesn't say much more it as a tool for good behaviour does it?

Teachers maintain discipline in schools by teaching children respect and boundaries. Trying to engage them meaningfully and through positive reinforcement. Threats of violence is never and will never be the answer.
		
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I didn't say kids are becoming more violent (although I think they are) but they are certainly becoming less disciplined. My generation was afraid of the police, now kids face up to them with no respect.

Also, I wasn't regularly slapped by my mother and on the few occasions it did happen it was deserved. 

Finally, teachers maintaining discipline in schools? Something that hasn't happened for a very long time because all the tools to do so have been taken away from them.

"Sit down please Johnny.......PLEASE sit down Johnny......OK Johnny, you win, do whatever you want"


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 24, 2015)

The most popular and respected teacher at my school [early 1960's] was the sports master.
Step out of line with him and you got a fierce whack on your backside with your gym shoe.
How often did he use it ?

A couple of times in 3 years.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2015)

My final comment on this thread

There is a world of difference between discipline and abuse, I don't think any of the 'pro smacking' brigade are suggesting that children should be abused!


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## G.U.R (Jul 24, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The most popular and respected teacher at my school [early 1960's] was the sports master.
Step out of line with him and you got a fierce whack on your backside with your gym shoe.
How often did he use it ?

A couple of times in 3 years.
		
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Are you not confusing respect with fear? I n the same way we feared the head teacher because he had a cane?


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I didn't say kids are becoming more violent (although I think they are) but they are certainly becoming less disciplined. My generation was afraid of the police, now kids face up to them with no respect.

Also, I wasn't regularly slapped by my mother and on the few occasions it did happen it was deserved. 

Finally, teachers maintaining discipline in schools? Something that hasn't happened for a very long time because all the tools to do so have been taken away from them.

"Sit down please Johnny.......PLEASE sit down Johnny......OK Johnny, you win, do whatever you want"  

Click to expand...

Agree with everything you've said on this post. 
I ad the odd slap from my mother when I was a child,I even ad the slipper. 
I deserved it & it did no harm apart from a sore bum for an hour or so.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Does a parent have a right to cause what could be significant long term psychological damage on a child for what is short term benefit - when the parent has no idea how the psychological pain or damage inflicted might manifest itself through time.  'It's only a smack' you might say 'for his own good' - but you don't actually know whether it is for his own long term good at all.  You have no idea of the damage you are doing.
		
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As a parent you have the right to do what you see best for your child, how you go about doing that, be it through verbal reasoning, a smack or an element of both is your choice. But again you word your response as if the child if under continual physical abuse and if this was the situation, then there would be a very good case for citing long term psychological damage. 

Continual physical abuse as you are suggesting could be the reason some children become psychologically affected in later years, but when a parent smacks a child once in a blue moon for something that is deserved, I do not believe that carries sufficient psychological distress to warrant them becoming the type of person you suggest.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



			My final comment on this thread

There is a world of difference between discipline and abuse, I don't think any of the 'pro smacking' brigade are suggesting that children should be abused!  

Click to expand...

Exactly


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## Hobbit (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			As a parent you have the right to do what you see best for your child, how you go about doing that, be it through verbal reasoning, a smack or an element of both is your choice. But again you word your response as if the child if under continual physical abuse and if this was the situation, then there would be a very good case for citing long term psychological damage. 

Continual physical abuse as you are suggesting could be the reason some children become psychologically affected in later years, but when a parent smacks a child once in a blue moon for something that is deserved, I do not believe that carries sufficient psychological distress to warrant them becoming the type of person you suggest.
		
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Having spent last weekend golfing with you Dave I can testify to you being damaged! Along with that tee marker you smacked full on:rofl:


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

G.U.R said:



			Are you not confusing respect with fear? I n the same way we feared the head teacher because he had a cane?
		
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Respect and Fear are indeed two different things, but either way the result was the same, the lined was toed and the need to discipline was next to naught.


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## G.U.R (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			Respect and Fear are indeed two different things, but either way the result was the same, the lined was toed and the need to discipline was next to naught.
		
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I agree, at school, at home I think the days of the father figure as one to be feared are gone, I for one would not want my daughters to be in fear of me.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Having spent last weekend golfing with you Dave I can testify to you being damaged! Along with that tee marker you smacked full on:rofl:
		
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If only I could be that accurate on purpose.


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## delc (Jul 24, 2015)

woody69 said:



			I know people that were never smacked as kids and they grew up into respectful and polite adults. I have met a few that were smacked on occasion and they're nothing but trouble, so what does that prove? Absolutely nothing.

And for the record, kids have always carried guns, knives and all sorts of other weapons. Are you honestly trying to suggest that because parents are smacking their children less, kids are becoming more violent? Really?




If you were regularly slapped by your mother for misbehaving it doesn't say much more it as a tool for good behaviour does it?

Teachers maintain discipline in schools by teaching children respect and boundaries. Trying to engage them meaningfully and through positive reinforcement. Threats of violence is never and will never be the answer.
		
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Rubbish! One of the most violent societies in the Western World is the U.S., where the teaching of Dr (not Mister) Spock that you must never smack children has been the norm for many years. That is why most young Americans are, at best, spoilt brats.


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## davidy233 (Jul 24, 2015)

Smacked my eldest once - he was terrified, smacked his wee brother once too - he just stared at me - that's when I realised it doesn't work with everyone and neither were ever smacked again - they've both grown up as nice lads. Environment and example are what teaches kids - not violence.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

davidy233 said:



			Smacked my eldest once - he was terrified, smacked his wee brother once too - he just stared at me - that's when I realised it doesn't work with everyone and neither were ever smacked again - they've both grown up as nice lads. Environment and example are what teaches kids - not violence.
		
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I agree violence is not always the answer, but there are occasions where a smack is necessary and appropriate. I also agree that smacking some does not work and alternative methods of discipline are required.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			He who says that a smack from a parent never affected him - how does he know?  *Can he look across at his 'non-smacked' self to see if they are identical. No - he can't.*

I was smacked as a child.  And I had fear in me if I knew I was going to get it off my dad when he got home from work.  As a result I think that fear affected my feelings for him as I grew up and that would have affected our relationship.  I also think- though how would I know for sure - that it affected my self-confidence; maybe I felt ashamed that I was being smacked - and that my father smacked me.  After all as far as I was concerned none of my pals got smacked - it's not exactly something you talked about.

i did well at school and never got into any trouble with authority, but I was shy and low in self-confidence (manifestation of the fear I felt?) - and I still am.  How much of that I can put down to being smacked as a child and having a father who did the smacking - I don't know for sure.  But certainly it affected how I felt about my father, and I suspect it has affected my life and who I am today.
		
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This is spot on! 

Smacking has one use.... it makes the smacker feel better!

In my opinion if I was smacked, someone else was going to get a smack. If I was smacked I was going to do what I did again.... In fact I was going to do whatever I wanted. 

THINK!!!! its so simple, do not teach children to think that violence or physical contact of any sort is the way to get someone to adhere to your will. As a human you are far far far better than that. If you teach your child respect and values there will never be a time you have to use violence to make them behave.

Give your child the *time your meant to....*


"I was smacked and im alright" says who? On what level... on the level that you think its ok to hit children.... BRAVE!  It is the scared people who say things like "goody goodys" and the like. The scared, the unintelligent and likely the people who were smacked.

Its ok to do things better.....


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			I agree violence is not always the answer, but there are occasions where a smack is necessary and appropriate. I also agree that smacking some does not work and alternative methods of discipline are required.
		
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The way i define a 'smack' on a child is not violent in my opinion, it is done as a shock tactic to break the behavior that is happening. Now other people obviously have a different concept of smacking, I again would use as a last resort to stop a situation that talking or even shouting wouldn't sort, 

For example a toddler biting, it has to be pretty major in my opinion, not because they don't tidy their toys away or answer back etc. Often i find a really loud clap can work in a similar manner in creating that pause or stop of behavior.


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## freddielong (Jul 24, 2015)

Violence is never the answer I cannot think of a situation were it would be acceptable.  One thing I bet as well, the line that governs were the smack is acceptable moves depending on the mood of the parent.


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## Fyldewhite (Jul 24, 2015)

I don't see the harm in the odd smack on the leg. I don't see it as a punishment.....I think that is a misconception. It should be a tool to get the child's attention to then explain why they are being told off. I don't think banning it will result in some sort of Utopian violence free society either. As others have said, there's a world of difference between this and "abuse". I think using smacking as a punishment, with the clear intention of hurting the child clearly falls into this category. Isn't yelling at children a form of abuse? Isn't grabbing a child by the shoulders to make it listen a form of abuse? All a question of degree and may be simple to legislate but difficult to enforce.


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2015)

not


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			I don't see the harm in the odd smack on the leg. I don't see it as a punishment.....I think that is a misconception. It should be a tool to get the child's attention to then explain why they are being told off. I don't think banning it will result in some sort of Utopian violence free society either. As others have said, there's a world of difference between this and "abuse". I think using smacking as a punishment, with the clear intention of hurting the child clearly falls into this category. Isn't yelling at children a form of abuse? Isn't grabbing a child by the shoulders to make it listen a form of abuse? All a question of degree and may be simple to legislate but difficult to enforce.
		
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Rooter Likes this :thup:


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## BoadieBroadus (Jul 24, 2015)

before i had kids i was of the "little smack wouldn't do any harm" school. now that I have them I could never see the possibility of smacking them.

i can't ever forsee a situation where making the kids afraid of me striking them would be a positive step in my parenting approach.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			The way i define a 'smack' on a child is not violent in my opinion, it is done as a shock tactic to break the behavior that is happening. Now other people obviously have a different concept of smacking, I again would use as a last resort to stop a situation that talking or even shouting wouldn't sort, 

For example a toddler biting, it has to be pretty major in my opinion, not because they don't tidy their toys away or answer back etc. Often i find a really loud clap can work in a similar manner in creating that pause or stop of behavior.
		
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You show that toddler that if he bites he gets a smack.... violence begets violence and the cycle begins. If I am violent with daddy he will be violent with me.... Its normal....


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

I always remember telling my mom to 'f' off when i was 13.  She said right "I'm calling your dad"
The 4 hour wait for my dad to get home from work was like a prison sentence.   I thought i was gonna get battered.    When my dad got home he said "COME HERE"  as i walked over i tensed up in anticipation for a whallop!!!! It never happened. 

20 years later i got onto this subject with my dad and I said " why didn't you hit me"?  He said. "son, i didn't need to!  your face told me you had regretted your actions "


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			You show that toddler that if he bites he gets a smack.... violence begets violence and the cycle begins. If I am violent with daddy he will be violent with me.... Its normal....
		
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I disagree, he gets a tap, smack, whatever you want to call it, but i need to clarify, it is not done to inflict pain, it is there to very quickly stop what is happening.

My eldest bit my wife once, got a 'smack' and never did it again, same with my 2nd.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 24, 2015)

Fyldewhite;1335247[B said:
			
		


			]I don't see the harm in the odd smack on the leg.[/B] I don't see it as a punishment.....I think that is a misconception. It should be a tool to get the child's attention to then explain why they are being told off. I don't think banning it will result in some sort of Utopian violence free society either. As others have said, there's a world of difference between this and "abuse". I think using smacking as a punishment, with the clear intention of hurting the child clearly falls into this category. Isn't yelling at children a form of abuse? Isn't grabbing a child by the shoulders to make it listen a form of abuse? All a question of degree and may be simple to legislate but difficult to enforce.
		
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BiB  You don't - but do you know what the child really thinks about it?  Well of course you don't.  After a smack the child may scream at you 'I HATE you' - and I'll be guessing that most parents will dismiss such outbursts as being no more than that - an emotional outburst.  

But many adults build and hold resentments that affect their life quite significantly - why then would not a child?  Yes of course depriving a child of a favourite toy may generate similar outbursts but are the same sort of resentments built up as are built up through physical pain.  I don't know.  But why risk it.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			I disagree, he gets a tap, smack, whatever you want to call it, but i need to clarify, it is not done to inflict pain, it is there to very quickly stop what is happening.

My eldest bit my wife once, got a 'smack' and never did it again, same with my 2nd.
		
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Is there a way that situation could have had the same outcome without violence?


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Is there a way that situation could have had the same outcome without violence?
		
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Sorry to be a pedant Alex, but i think you are missing something i have been quite clear on:

violence
&#712;v&#652;&#618;&#601;l(&#601ns/Submit
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something


The 'smack' would be there with the intention to shock, as i have said all the way through, there is not the force or intention there to hurt, its there to shock.

Think we may have to agree to disagree!! ;-)


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

drive4show said:



*I'd like to see any clinical studies you can provide to prove that smacking has detrimental effects?*

I don't have any 'proof' to which method is better but I do know a few simple things. I could walk home from the pub quite safely when I was younger, very much doubt that is the case now. Not very scientific but a pretty clear indication to me.
		
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ly-make-aggressive-trigger-bad-behaviour.html

OMG, I'm using The Daily mail as evidence to back up my point in a discussion.  Oh the irony....


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

People who say kids will think violence is normal if you get smacked are on another planet.   I was smacked and never been in a fight in my life.

A child needs to understand that there are consequences for bad behaviour.   Standing on a naughty step or having a time out is a pathetic method.    I've spent many hours in childs soft play area and it is easy to see what kids belong to what parents.  Take control of your children and do what you need to do so they don't rob my house when they're older


Waaaaay too many do gooders about that cant control their children and hide behind stupid medical conditions


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Sorry to be a pedant Alex, but i think you are missing something i have been quite clear on:

violence
&#712;v&#652;&#618;&#601;l(&#601ns/Submit
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something


The 'smack' would be there with the intention to shock, as i have said all the way through, there is not the force or intention there to hurt, its there to shock.

Think we may have to agree to disagree!! ;-)
		
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I'm with Rooter.   i wouldn't call a smack on the hand violence.   A punch in the face? Yes


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2015)

Sorry but agree the use of the word "violent" and "violence" isn't right in regards a parent giving their child a small sharp clip


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ly-make-aggressive-trigger-bad-behaviour.html

OMG, I'm using The Daily mail as evidence to back up my point in a discussion.  Oh the irony....

Click to expand...

Yeah...and I'm sure I could use google to find something that says the opposite of whatever is in that link


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## Hobbit (Jul 24, 2015)

More of a rhetorical musing rather than a question. Once upon a time, not that long ago, pretty much all parents smacked their children. And back then, pretty much all schools resorted to corporal punishment if a pupil transgressed. And of course, back then there were millions of children that grew up to become dysfunctional adults. Wonder what were the levels of street crime or disruptive classrooms... would also be interested to know if there were no-go areas in towns and schools as there are now. Wonder how many teachers left the profession, or were stabbed to death 50yrs ago?

Thank goodness the UK has become more enlightened. We no longer have any major crimes etc, and we no longer go to war and shoot/bomb people.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Sorry to be a pedant Alex, but i think you are missing something i have been quite clear on:

violence
&#712;v&#652;&#618;&#601;l(&#601ns/Submit
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something
		
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No problem buddy, this is not at you and I am aware I am being idealistic. I am using the word "violence" on purpose as everyone is not you. If these were a court of law I am sure I could get "an expert" to prove that "smacking" what ever way you slice it is an act of violence.

Again, not at you or at anyone. I think its an interesting debate and that I have a strong view on it does not automatically mean I am right... even though I am


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 24, 2015)

hovis said:



			People who say kids will think violence is normal if you get smacked are on another planet.   I was smacked and never been in a fight in my life.

A child needs to understand that there are consequences for bad behaviour.   Standing on a naughty step or having a time out is a pathetic method.    I've spent many hours in childs soft play area and it is easy to see what kids belong to what parents.  Take control of your children and do what you need to do so they don't rob my house when they're older


Waaaaay too many do gooders about that cant control their children and hide behind stupid medical conditions
		
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hovis said:



			I'm with Rooter.   i wouldn't call a smack on the hand violence.   A punch in the face? Yes
		
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Good posts  :thup:


Oh bugger.....I said I'd said my last word on this thread...............


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 24, 2015)

hovis said:



			...I was smacked and never been in a fight in my life.
		
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...and...?

Because some don't think that being smacked didn't affect them - how do they actually know?  And what about the child who is smacked and as a result DOES get into fights?


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## davidy233 (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			I agree violence is not always the answer, *but there are occasions where a smack is necessary *and appropriate. I also agree that smacking some does not work and alternative methods of discipline are required.
		
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Err nope there aren't - bring your kids up well and they'll generally be OK


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but agree the use of the word "violent" and "violence" isn't right in regards a parent giving their child a small sharp clip
		
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If you and I work together and I walk up behind you and "smack" you across the back of the head I am pretty sure you could have me dismissed for violence! Maybe even GBH or ABH.... Its a word, you might be getting hooked up on it cos it sounds harsh...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			If you and I work together and I walk up behind you and "smack" you across the back of the head I am pretty sure you could have me dismissed for violence! Maybe even GBH or ABH.... Its a word, you might be getting hooked up on it cos it sounds harsh...
		
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Again context - that's not the same as a clip round the ear and a smack on the wrist.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again context - that's not the same as a clip round the ear and a smack on the wrist.
		
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Nope, but the OP is about this being outlawed and as such all these words and arguments are going to come up. How hard did I slap you round the back of the head at work... Its not going to matter... I will be getting the sack.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			This is spot on! 

Smacking has one use.... it makes the smacker feel better!
		
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What utter garbage, again someone else jumping on the violence bandwagon and not reading the thread. This thread is not to condone violence against children, it is to question one the one hand the right of a parent to smack their child legally and whether that right should be taken away and on the other it is about disciplining a child when all other avenues have failed. In writing that it is not about continual regular smacking which constitutes abuse, but the need to smack a child to reinforce a pertinent point.



Alex1975 said:



			In my opinion if I was smacked, someone else was going to get a smack. If I was smacked I was going to do what I did again.... In fact I was going to do whatever I wanted.
		
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So you think that a parent gets enjoyment out of hitting their children, that is some warped logic you have there.



Alex1975 said:



			THINK!!!! its so simple, do not teach children to think that violence or physical contact of any sort is the way to get someone to adhere to your will. As a human you are far far far better than that. If you teach your child respect and values there will never be a time you have to use violence to make them behave.

Give your child the *time your meant to....*

Click to expand...

I agree, teaching children that violence is the answer is wrong, but smacking a child to enforce a point to be made for the child's own safety is sometimes the only thing a child will learn from.

So you tell your child that the cooker is hot and do not touch,  you explain why it is hot and why they should not touch it, you are a good parent, you are clear concise, detailed and have explained the consequences in a way they understand. Yet the next day you see you child reaching for the hob which is on, you tell them to stop and explain again, this process repeats, one day you might not be there to tell them to stop and the child is badly burned or worse. If after the second scolding the attempts continue a smack on the leg could (yes only could) prevent the child from reaching up, as they know that they may get smacked again and in tis instance a smack to the leg is better than a pan of boiling water.[/quote]



Alex1975 said:



			"I was smacked and im alright" says who? On what level... on the level that you think its ok to hit children.... BRAVE!  It is the scared people who say things like "goody goodys" and the like. The scared, the unintelligent and likely the people who were smacked.
		
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I was smacked occasionally as a child and I can think of several instances where it was warranted, their after my mam would say I'm going to count to three than then, I knew what would be coming after three as it had happened once before and the threat of being smacked was sufficient. So yes under the right circumstances a parent should have the right to smack their child, it's not brave or clever, but an act that may be necessary due to the child's actions or inaction. Nor am I scared, I've started this thread on the subject and posted several replies. In my eyes, seeing a parent telling a child to stop doing something only for the child to continue and then the parent to repeat the request only for the child to continue is pointless, what is the child learning? If I do something naughty I'll get spoken to in a calm caring voice which lets me carry on what I'm doing, genius, let the child repeatedly pull the dogs tail, let he child continually throw lego blocks at another child and see what happens.



Alex1975 said:



			Its ok to do things better.....
		
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Of course it is, but sometimes the need to smack is the last resort and the only action a child will respond to.


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## c1973 (Jul 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			I suppose it depends on if you class hitting a child as a way of bringing up that child.  As the courts (European, English, British, Scottish of even Jedi if you want) can decide if hitting someone is lawful or not.
		
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Jedi have a council......not a court. Just saying like. :ears:


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Nope, but the OP is about this being outlawed and as such all these words and arguments are going to come up. How hard did I slap you round the back of the head at work... Its not going to matter... I will be getting the sack.
		
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Again it's all context and reasoning and the situation between the two people 

Someone who clips their son around the ear isn't being "violent" regardless of other situations that are created


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...and...?

Because some don't think that being smacked didn't affect them - how do they actually know?  And what about the child who is smacked and as a result DOES get into fights?
		
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From my personal experience the kids that are prone to violence are the kids that have parents that cant control them.  They've got a mentality of "i can do what i want and nothings gonna happen "


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



*Of course it is*, but sometimes the *need to smack* is the last resort and the only action a child will respond to.
		
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Is there? Or is this about you needing to make a point to your child that you are the big man around the house? Find a better way or risk being seen as not intelligent enough to reason and teach your child. They will not always be a child and one day they will be intelligent enough to know that you thought "the only action a child will respond to"... its on you, not your child.


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## Rooter (Jul 24, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Jedi have a council......not a court. Just saying like. :ears:
		
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best reply on this thread!

Gonna say my final piece, and while i fully respect alex and the others whom have said they never would/will etc, there is no hard and fast rules on parenting. Most people do what they think is right. I am in no way condoning violence toward kids. Anyway, the use of a smack in my eyes should be very sparse, ie in severe situations like i have outlined in previous posts and should be a slap on the wrist that shocks said child into stopping what they are doing, it should not come up bright red etc! 

Parents that regularly smack their kids for the most menial of things deserve a slap back from an adult, preferably in the nose from a closed fist! 

I said it earlier today, I want my kids to respect me, but moreover themselves.

I'm oot.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			best reply on this thread!

Gonna say my final piece, and while i fully respect alex and the others whom have said they never would/will etc, there is no hard and fast rules on parenting. Most people do what they think is right. I am in no way condoning violence toward kids. Anyway, the use of a smack in my eyes should be very sparse, ie in severe situations like i have outlined in previous posts and should be a slap on the wrist that shocks said child into stopping what they are doing, it should not come up bright red etc! 

Parents that regularly smack their kids for the most menial of things deserve a slap back from an adult, preferably in the nose from a closed fist! 

I said it earlier today, I want my kids to respect me, but moreover themselves.

I'm oot.
		
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Summed up perfectly


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## c1973 (Jul 24, 2015)

https://m.youtube.com/?gl=GB#/watch?v=Rx_lTgUSyB4

A wee 'nip' seems to be the way to go.


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Is there? Or is this about you needing to make a point to your child that you are the big man around the house? Find a better way or risk being seen as not intelligent enough to reason and teach your child. They will not always be a child and one day they will be intelligent enough to know that you thought "the only action a child will respond to"... its on you, not your child.
		
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I think you have to be sick in the head to want to smack a child because it makes you feel better or prove your the man of the house.  I smaked my daughter on the back of the hand last month and it broke my heart to see her upset.    however,  she seemed to have learned that hitting and bitting is not acceptable and hasn't done it since.    So as much as it hurt me to do it i hope its made her a better person for the future .

As for alternative methods, kids are stupid .  Look at the animal Kingdom .  How many lions put their cubs on a naughty step?


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

As with Hovis, I got the occasional smack as a child, but I've not once raised my fists in anger, never had a fight in 46yrs on this planet.

To a degree it is all semantics regarding the words violence, violent, smacking, people will spin them to however they see necessary to make their point. The point in question is whether smacking a child should be illegal, but there is more to it than that, smacking a child to shock them out of an action may be necessary, but the action of smacking must not leave a mark on the child, if it does then it becomes a violent act.

Leaving you handprint on a child's leg is wrong, a parent that does that needs to take a look in the mirror, that is abuse.

The purpose of smacking a child is not to harm or maim, leave a mark, but to protect, to induce a shock that breaks a repeated pattern, to stop them from doing something that may harm them if they continued.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2015)

If you reguluarly feel the need to give your children a slap then something is wrong. 
However in certain situations a slap does no harm. 
If you believe this will make them violent you're living in cuckoo land.


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			As with Hovis, I got the occasional smack as a child, but I've not once raised my fists in anger, never had a fight in 46yrs on this planet.

To a degree it is all semantics regarding the words violence, violent, smacking, people will spin them to however they see necessary to make their point. The point in question is whether smacking a child should be illegal, but there is more to it than that, smacking a child to shock them out of an action may be necessary, but the action of smacking must not leave a mark on the child, if it does then it becomes a violent act.

Leaving you handprint on a child's leg is wrong, a parent that does that needs to take a look in the mirror, that is abuse.

The purpose of smacking a child is not to harm or maim, leave a mark, but to protect, to induce a shock that breaks a repeated pattern, to stop them from doing something that may harm them if they continued.
		
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Could have written that myself


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Is there? Or is this about you needing to make a point to your child that you are the big man around the house? Find a better way or risk being seen as not intelligent enough to reason and teach your child. They will not always be a child and one day they will be intelligent enough to know that you thought "the only action a child will respond to"... its on you, not your child.
		
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In any household, if a parent feels the need to repeatedly smack their child to make themselves feel good, then there is something wrong with them. I agree if there are alternative ways to get the point across then they should be explored first, no parent ever should want to smack their child. Any parent who does, just for the sheer hell of it, most likely does lack the intelligence or imagination to explain what it is the child is doing wrong and why they should not do it.

But that written there are still times when a sharp smack is what is required, you can tell a child not to do something till you're blue in the face and they'll still do it, sometimes a good talking to just does not cut it. Other posters have given several examples, but either way you have your opinion and I have mine.


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## Alex1975 (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			As with Hovis, I got the occasional smack as a child, but I've not once raised my fists in anger, never had a fight in 46yrs on this planet.

To a degree it is all semantics regarding the words violence, violent, smacking, people will spin them to however they see necessary to make their point. The point in question is whether smacking a child should be illegal, but there is more to it than that, smacking a child to shock them out of an action may be necessary, but the action of smacking must not leave a mark on the child, if it does then it becomes a violent act.

Leaving you handprint on a child's leg is wrong, a parent that does that needs to take a look in the mirror, that is abuse.

The purpose of smacking a child is not to harm or maim, leave a mark, but to protect, to induce a shock that breaks a repeated pattern, to stop them from doing something that may harm them if they continued.
		
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The trouble is, your a reasonable human being and have limits. The world or even just the country has many people who are not reasonable and do not give them self a remit. 

I was caned and slipper`d at school... that's violence in my opinion. 

To answer your questions directly on should it be made illegal.. I really do not know. Should we protect those children who`s parents take things too far, or educate them... Its genuinely an interesting and difficult topic.


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## c1973 (Jul 24, 2015)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...-no-harm-if-they-feel-loved-study-claims.html


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## G.U.R (Jul 24, 2015)

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of how one disciplines their children, is this going to be one of those Laws impossible to police and open to allsorts of witch hunts and vendetta calls?


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## Foxholer (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			The European court of human rights wants the UK Government to ban smacking a child in the home, making it illegal.
....
		
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Er....Wrong!

Get your facts right, or you'll be sent to the Headmaster for '6 of the best'! :rofl:


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## Hobbit (Jul 24, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			The trouble is, your a reasonable human being and have limits. The world or even just the country has many people who are not reasonable and do not give them self a remit. 

I was caned and slipper`d at school... that's violence in my opinion. 

To answer your questions directly on should it be made illegal.. I really do not know. Should we protect those children who`s parents take things too far, or educate them... Its genuinely an interesting and difficult topic.
		
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Cane and slipper was definitely OTT. I had it occasionally, twice, and definitely don't respect the teachers who used it when they could have reasoned with an adolescent. Oh, and on one of those occasions it wasn't even me - totally crap teacher who appeared to relish using the cane indiscriminately.

Parents who need to use physical discipline beyond the age a kid can reason sensibly need a parenting skills course, if its not too late. And to be fair, most parents wing parenting based on their own experiences growing up and a few comic manuals.

Bringing in a law for this won't work, as per persistent drink drivers. But it will fill the Care Homes with kids who've been removed from half decent parents.


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Er....Wrong!

Get your facts right, or you'll be sent to the Headmaster for '6 of the best'! :rofl:
		
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Okay so it's the United Nations and I never got sent to the headmaster, I never fancied get the belt across my hand.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Cane and slipper was definitely OTT. I had it occasionally, twice, and definitely don't respect the teachers who used it when they could have reasoned with an adolescent. Oh, and on one of those occasions it wasn't even me - totally crap teacher who appeared to relish using the cane indiscriminately.

Parents who need to use physical discipline beyond the age a kid can reason sensibly need a parenting skills course, if its not too late. And to be fair, most parents wing parenting based on their own experiences growing up and a few comic manuals.

*Bringing in a law for this won't work, as per persistent drink drivers*. But it will fill the Care Homes with kids who've been removed from half decent parents.
		
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I suppose it depends what the law is trying to do.  No law will or does prevent any crime being committed. But since 1979 there has been a 6 fold decrease in the number of deaths by drink driving, plus it much less socially accepted.  Yes of course it has not stopped the hard core drink driver, much as this proposal will not stop the hard core child beaters.  But it may well make smacking/hitting a child less sociably acceptable and reduce the number of kids that are being hit.  Which can not be a bad thing can it?


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## Khamelion (Jul 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			I suppose it depends what the law is trying to do.  No law will or does prevent any crime being committed. But since 1979 there has been a 6 fold decrease in the number of deaths by drink driving, plus it much less socially accepted.  Yes of course it has not stopped the hard core drink driver, much as this proposal will not stop the hard core child beaters.  But it may well make smacking/hitting a child less sociably acceptable and reduce the number of kids that are being hit.  Which can not be a bad thing can it?
		
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I believe that there is already a law that covers smacking a child, that covers actual physical harm to the child where the result of the smack leads to bruising, swelling, scratches etc...

What the United Nations want is a complete ban.

Anyone who smacks a child and leaves a mark could be punished if reported under the current law, for common assault, GBH or ABH


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## Foxholer (Jul 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			I suppose it depends what the law is trying to do.  No law will or does prevent any crime being committed. But since 1979 there has *been a 6 fold decrease in the number of deaths by drink driving*, plus it much less socially accepted.
		
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Can you point those statistics out?

When quoting decreases, stating decrease factor on these sort of stats is rarely valid - though stating percentage decrease is! Slightly different when talking about the likes of 'success rates' for things like re-offending or cancer treatments - where it's actually the marginal 'stat' that is the important one.


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## cleanstrike (Jul 24, 2015)

If my mam told me to do something I should be doing or to stop doing something I shouldn't be doing then I would do what she said because I knew darn well what I'd get if I didn't. This is the way it should be ... _ad infinitum._


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## User20205 (Jul 24, 2015)

I don't smack my kids, I never will. They make me angry, and at times I've felt like it, but I haven't.

I'd never stand in judgement over someone that did, but how do you stop a smack becoming something more sinister except with legislation. 

I'm totally against anyone else, teacher, copper etc having the power to do it also. 
My kids aren't angels but they know right from wrong without the threat of physical discipline.


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## Hobbit (Jul 24, 2015)

Just remembered; the local bobby gave me a clip for being in school uniform and having my shirt tail out. I am traumatised, hate going out and I'm terrified of the Police. There must be a claim in it...


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## freddielong (Jul 24, 2015)

Is there a situation between two adults were one can smack the other because they were wrong or did something the other disagreed with were it is ok.


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 24, 2015)

freddielong said:



			Is there a situation between two adults were one can smack the other because they were wrong or did something the other disagreed with were it is ok.
		
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Legally or morally?


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Can you point those statistics out?

When quoting decreases, stating decrease factor on these sort of stats is rarely valid - though stating percentage decrease is! Slightly different when talking about the likes of 'success rates' for things like re-offending or cancer treatments - where it's actually the marginal 'stat' that is the important one.
		
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fair point

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-...safety/alcohol-related-accidents#drinkdriving


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			As with Hovis, I got the occasional smack as a child, but I've not once raised my fists in anger, never had a fight in 46yrs on this planet.

To a degree it is all semantics regarding the words violence, violent, smacking, people will spin them to however they see necessary to make their point. The point in question is whether smacking a child should be illegal, but there is more to it than that, smacking a child to shock them out of an action may be necessary, but the action of smacking must not leave a mark on the child, if it does then it becomes a violent act.

Leaving you handprint on a child's leg is wrong, a parent that does that needs to take a look in the mirror, that is abuse.

The purpose of smacking a child is not to harm or maim, leave a mark, but to protect, to induce a shock that breaks a repeated pattern, to stop them from doing something that may harm them if they continued.
		
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Totally agree.


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## freddielong (Jul 24, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			Legally or morally?
		
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Either and remember it's to be done in such a way to stun or shock the other into compliance


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

freddielong said:



			Either and remember it's to be done in such a way to stun or shock the other into compliance
		
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What do you think would be the better outcome of this.

You get caught steeling a car in the UK .  You get caught and punished in the way of an afternoon in prison plus court fee's. 

You move to spain and the police catch you steeling a car.  They dont arrest you they just kick the living daylights out of you.   In what country would you re offend in??

I'd go to prison every day.  When you go to spain you don't mess with the "powlice" because them crazy buggers mean business.


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## Tashyboy (Jul 24, 2015)

Smacking was/is a small piece of what being a parent was/is all about. Along with teaching manners, right and wrong. I don't know of a friend who smacked there children and gained any satisfaction from it.
when we adopted our youngest, we were asked by the birth mother if we would smack our adoptive daughter. The fact that her birth daughter spent her first Christmas and new year in hospital because she had been physically beaten up within two weeks of being born was lost on her. I did feel like smacking someone at that point though. 
There is a marked difference between a smack and physical violence. For the record our social worker said tell the Birth mother that "she would be treated exactly the same way as our other two kids". Read into that what you  like.
not to sure I am happy with an European court or any court telling me what I can and cannot do to bring up my kids and I don't just mean smacking. Yup I did on occasions smack my kids, but as I get older the thought of smacking my grandson fills me with dread. Maybe being on the verge of being a fossil makes you look at things in a different way.


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## Hacker Khan (Jul 24, 2015)

hovis said:



			What do you think would be the better outcome of this.

You get caught steeling a car in the UK .  You get caught and punished in the way of an afternoon in prison plus court fee's. 

You move to spain and the police catch you steeling a car.  They dont arrest you they just kick the living daylights out of you.   In what country would you re offend in??

I'd go to prison every day.  When you go to spain you don't mess with the "powlice" because them crazy buggers mean business.
		
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Are any of those examples actual facts or just exaggerations based on hearsay to back up a point of view?


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Are any of those examples actual facts or just exaggerations based on hearsay to back up a point of view?
		
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A few years back bbc followed a group of ex offenders to see how they dealt with rehabilitation.   This guy moved to spain and said "i cant brake the law here because they'll kill me before they'll fill in the paper work"   

Funny story and at the extreme end but what i got from that is, if the consequences out weigh the action then most people think twice


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## Tashyboy (Jul 24, 2015)

hovis said:



			A few years back bbc followed a group of ex offenders to see how they dealt with rehabilitation.   This guy moved to spain and said "i cant brake the law here because they'll kill me before they'll fill in the paper work"   

Funny story and at the extreme end but what i got from that is, if the consequences out weigh the action then most people think twice
		
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Thing is hovis, I have always said that the punishment should be part of the deterrent. On that basis does smacking a child become an acceptable deterrent ?


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## stevelev (Jul 24, 2015)

More people are going down the route of crystal meth nowadays, Smack is so noughties


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## hovis (Jul 24, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			Thing is hovis, I have always said that the punishment should be part of the deterrent. On that basis does smacking a child become an acceptable deterrent ?
		
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If you experience pain and shock then that becomes a deterrent.    I've only ever touched an electric fence once!!!

If you can discipline a child without smacking then fantastic.   An eg would be my nephew.   You could beat him black and blue but he would still misbehave.  Stop him from playing football for a week he becomes a model citizen


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## guest100718 (Jul 24, 2015)

stevelev said:



			More people are going down the route of crystal meth nowadays, Smack is so noughties
		
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yeah brown is old hat these days


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## richart (Jul 24, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Sorry to be a pedant Alex, but i think you are missing something i have been quite clear on:

violence
&#712;v&#652;&#618;&#601;l(&#601ns/Submit
noun
1.
behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something


The 'smack' would be there with the intention to shock, as i have said all the way through, there is not the force or intention there to hurt, its there to shock.

Think we may have to agree to disagree!! ;-)
		
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 The smack needs to be instant, so the child knows why they have received it. Doesn't have to hurt, just the shock will do.

Never held with punishment being given long after the event. That reminds me too much of Tom Brown's school days.


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2015)

hovis said:



			I think you have to be sick in the head to want to smack a child because it makes you feel better or prove your the man of the house.  *I smaked my daughter on the back of the hand last month* and it broke my heart to see her upset.    however,  *she seemed to have learned that hitting* and bitting *is not acceptable* and hasn't done it since.    So as much as it hurt me to do it i hope its made her a better person for the future .

As for alternative methods, kids are stupid .  Look at the animal Kingdom .  How many lions put their cubs on a naughty step?
		
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Is this supposed to be ironic?


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## woody69 (Jul 24, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			As with Hovis, I got the occasional smack as a child, but I've not once raised my fists in anger, never had a fight in 46yrs on this planet.

To a degree it is all semantics regarding the words violence, violent, smacking, people will spin them to however they see necessary to make their point. The point in question is whether smacking a child should be illegal, but there is more to it than that, smacking a child to shock them out of an action may be necessary, but the action of smacking must not leave a mark on the child, if it does then it becomes a violent act.

Leaving you handprint on a child's leg is wrong, a parent that does that needs to take a look in the mirror, that is abuse.

The purpose of smacking a child is not to harm or maim, leave a mark, but to protect, to induce a shock that breaks a repeated pattern, to stop them from doing something that may harm them if they continued.
		
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Perhaps in your ideal world where the only resort left to stop a child doing something that may harm them is to give them a gentle tap across their ear / legs or whatever then we'd all be OK. However, smacking is rarely done in this way. It is usually out of frustration from the parent and they end up hitting them far harder than they intended.

My son drives me nuts some days, but there are far more effective ways to break this so called repeated pattern you keep talking about and stopping them from doing something that may harm them (other than the gently clip around the ear of course)


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## Hobbit (Jul 25, 2015)

woody69 said:



			there are far more effective ways to break this so called repeated pattern you keep talking about and stopping them from doing something that may harm them (other than the gently clip around the ear of course)
		
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What is this far more effective method? There's a lot of posts saying smacking is wrong, for all sorts of reasons. But how about some positive examples of what else works.


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## Blue in Munich (Jul 25, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			What is this far more effective method? There's a lot of posts saying smacking is wrong, for all sorts of reasons. But how about some positive examples of what else works.
		
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Beat me to itâ€¦â€¦...


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## bluewolf (Jul 25, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			What is this far more effective method? There's a lot of posts saying smacking is wrong, for all sorts of reasons. But how about some positive examples of what else works.
		
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I've been fortunate enough never to have felt the need to physically discipline either of my kids. They usually know when they're about to get in trouble just by the tone of my voice. 

In my ever so humble opinion, the real problem with discipline is that it isn't actually carried out fully. If your kids know that the week you've just grounded them will only last a few hours. Or the ban from the X Box will last less than a day, then you're failing to teach the child. 

Oh, and I was "physically disciplined" as a child. Quite badly on occasion. What it taught me was that fear is just as effective as respect, but it also nearly destroyed my relationship with my parents, and has affected my ability to make/keep friends. 

I appreciate that the thread is talking about a gentle smack, but one persons smack is another persons punch. I'd rather parents had the option taken away and were instead taught about effective discipline without the need for a smack.


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## Rooter (Jul 25, 2015)

richart said:



			The smack needs to be instant, so the child knows why they have received it. Doesn't have to hurt, just the shock will do.

Never held with punishment being given long after the event. That reminds me too much of Tom Brown's school days.
		
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I did say I was out but was chatting to Al over pm and I mentioned this. You are right rich, if you have to think whether to smack or not, it's too late and is pre meditated. It has to be an instant reaction to shock the child out of the extreme behaviour they are displaying. 

Someone earlier said they had to wait 4 hours for dad to get home for punishment, his was a chat, but if that dad came home and smacked the kid, that's not cricket.. That's abuse.


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## SatchFan (Jul 25, 2015)

I think Bluewolf has hit the nail on the head. The punishment has to be carried out 100%. A week without a games console means a week and not two days. Same goes for no TV in the room, no smartphone, no sweets and no trip to McDonalds, although the last two would be advisable on health grounds anyway.


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## c1973 (Jul 25, 2015)

Smacking is sooooooo wrong. The pain the child experiences can't be measured by the person disciplining the child. 

Much, much better to go down the mental torture route by depriving the child of contact with friends and social interaction by false imprisonment (sorry, grounding them) and stealing (sorry, removing access to) phone, tablet, computer etc. 

No way does that do more short/medium/long term damage than the brutal assault of a smack on the bottom/back of the hand.


Won't somebody think of the children! &#128561;


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## Khamelion (Jul 25, 2015)

woody69 said:



			Perhaps in your ideal world where the only resort left to stop a child doing something that may harm them is to give them a gentle tap across their ear / legs or whatever then we'd all be OK. However, smacking is rarely done in this way. It is usually out of frustration from the parent and they end up hitting them far harder than they intended.
		
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There is no ideal world where a child should be smacked and we're not talking about abuse, which a lot of the retorts in this thread have alluded to. To smack a child has to be the last resort, it has to be for a reason, for arguments sake something the child is repetedly doing after several verbal warnings, something where the child is endangering themselves. I agree there are better solutions, the removal of a favourite item, stopping them going somewhere or playing out with mates for x period of time, but the latter here are punishments a smack should not be a punishment, telling a child, "just wait until your father gets home" and then getting smacked does not serve any purpose other than to breed resentment and fear in the child. The smack as written above in other posts has to be an instant response to an act the child is doing that requires immediate action, again as written above, where the child continues to bite for example. 

As others have written, it would be good to read some examples of the far more effective ways of positive reinforcement that are used to break a repeated pattern.


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## adam6177 (Jul 25, 2015)

I was never hit by my parents, nor would I ever hit my son. Ever.

Physical abuse isn't a way to educate a child about life's right and wrongs.


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## Khamelion (Jul 25, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			I was never hit by my parents, nor would I ever hit my son. Ever.

Physical abuse isn't a way to educate a child about life's right and wrongs.
		
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Smacking a child without leaving a mark when the circumstances warrant it is not physical abuse. 

Smacking a child to make you feel good, or which leaves a mark is physical abuse, this thread is about the former not the latter.


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## adam6177 (Jul 25, 2015)

I 100% disagree. You lay hands on a child then it is physical abuse, you're inflicting violence on someone who can't protect themselves.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 25, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			I 100% disagree. You lay hands on a child then it is physical abuse, you're inflicting violence on someone who can't protect themselves.
		
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So are you saying that when my dad clip me round the ear or smacked my ass with a slipper to give me a short sharp shock he was "inflicting violence and physical abuse on me" ?!?!


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## stevelev (Jul 25, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So are you saying that when my dad clip me round the ear or smacked my ass with a slipper to give me a short sharp shock he was "inflicting violence and physical abuse on me" ?!?!
		
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People pay for that with a slipper now, and even dress as a school kid for effect... How times change


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## davidy233 (Jul 25, 2015)

Khamelion said:



			There is no ideal world where a child should be smacked and we're not talking about abuse, which a lot of the retorts in this thread have alluded to. To smack a child has to be the last resort, it has to be for a reason, for arguments sake something the child is repetedly doing after several verbal warnings, something where the child is endangering themselves. I agree there are better solutions, the removal of a favourite item, stopping them going somewhere or playing out with mates for x period of time, but the latter here are punishments a smack should not be a punishment, telling a child, "just wait until your father gets home" and then getting smacked does not serve any purpose other than to breed resentment and fear in the child. The smack as written above in other posts has to be an instant response to an act the child is doing that requires immediate action, again as written above, where the child continues to bite for example. 

As others have written, it would be good to read some examples of the far more effective ways of positive reinforcement that are used to break a repeated pattern.
		
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Really scary that people still think it's OK to hit a wee child


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## SocketRocket (Jul 25, 2015)

Homo Sapiens are animals, they may have big brains and like to think they are above nature but all the same they are an animal.   All animals (especially mammals) use a level of force to maintain discipline so that the species can live in an ordered society.  The level of force used is not normally more than necessary to maintain this order such that the species and group can continue to live in a structured society.

Ignore this natural instinct and the result will be chaotic.


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## The Green Fairy (Jul 26, 2015)

So smacking, is physical abuse and should be unlawful? 
How about indoctrination and brainwashing a child by threats of violence, death even, as a methodology for bringing up a child to believe in a specific cult.
Smacking doesn't even come close to the mental fears that are allowed to be instilled by religion.
When the do-gooders sort that one out, then I will agree that we have moved on from truly barbaric ways of reprimanding an unruly child, like a quick slap on the leg.


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## adam6177 (Jul 26, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So are you saying that when my dad clip me round the ear or smacked my ass with a slipper to give me a short sharp shock he was "inflicting violence and physical abuse on me" ?!?!
		
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Yes.

You can dress it up as a "short sharp shock" all you like, if that's how you want to justify hitting a defenceless child then go right ahead. 

I personally will choose to discipline my children in the same way I was, by being spoken to.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 26, 2015)

adam6177 said:



			Yes.

You can dress it up as a "short sharp shock" all you like, if that's how you want to justify hitting a defenceless child then go right ahead. 

I personally will choose to discipline my children in the same way I was, by being spoken to.
		
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But there isnt a one cap size fits all and certainly suggesting someone clipping someone round the ear is inflicting violent physical abuse is extremely wrong 

There is always context and im certainly not looking for justification. 

A clip round the ear is not violent physical abuse

Its getting far too easy to pin label or define all acts the same when the case is simply not true


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## The Green Fairy (Jul 26, 2015)

My friends son, aged 4 who had never been smacked, ran off and despite his father's pleadings did not stop, my friend ran after him shouting and threatening to smack him if he did not stop. Of course he did not understand the threat and laughing ran into a busy road.
The car thankfully swerved and braked and the child fell over.
"I will never smack my child" was abandoned in favour of a good hiding, there and then.
From then on the father's commands were obeyed and a smack was never required again.

No instructions on how to be a parent, much is instinct and common sense.


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## Sharktooth (Jul 26, 2015)

Coming from the central belt in Scotland, my childhood and that of my friends were one wrong word away from a good leathering and in those days it was a free for all... parents, teachers, policemen... even the guy that came to collect the football coupon would give you a slap. I grew up with a bit of respect and shake my head when I see the beviour of some kids nowadays.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm wondering which other wesrern European countries still permit smacking - I'm guessing not that many.  So if that is the case does that make our children worse behaved than those elsewhere - and why might that be - poorer parenting?


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## adam6177 (Jul 26, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			and why might that be - poorer parenting?
		
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Nail on head for me.

In my opinion if you need to inflict violence on a child then the parenting needs to be looked at.


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## Robobum (Jul 26, 2015)

i was smacked as a kid, caned, hit with a ruler, slipper etc by teachers too. All made me absolutely adamant that no hand would ever be laid on a child of mine in way of punishment.

Discussion,reasoning, explanation, advice, concession are how I will deal with it.

Smacking is lazy parenting.


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## User20205 (Jul 26, 2015)

Some of the terminology used here is an eye opener. 'A good hiding' ' a good leathering'' ??? Really 

It's as though some take pleasure in dishing out their form of punishment. That's how I remember some aspects of my childhood 

It's not 1975, smacking isn't socially acceptable


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## Pin-seeker (Jul 26, 2015)

therod said:



			It's not 1975, smacking isn't socially acceptable
		
Click to expand...

I prefer to make my own choices,rather than to go with the crowd. 

It's now socially acceptable to wear a woolly hat whilst also wearing shorts & flip flops.


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## The Green Fairy (Jul 26, 2015)

Neither is mental and psychological abuse - predominant in this 2015 society.

When the do - gooder's stop mithering about 'smacking' because it is not 1975, they need to have a good look around. 

There's a lot of blind eyes to the really cruel stuff.


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## The Green Fairy (Jul 26, 2015)

Robobum said:



			i was smacked as a kid, caned, hit with a ruler, slipper etc by teachers too. All made me absolutely adamant that no hand would ever be laid on a child of mine in way of punishment.

*Discussion,reasoning, explanation, advice, concession are how I will deal with it.
*
Smacking is lazy parenting.
		
Click to expand...

Ah, browbeating a five year old really works then?

Best of luck with that.


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## User20205 (Jul 26, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			I prefer to make my own choices,rather than to go with the crowd. 

It's now socially acceptable to wear a woolly hat whilst also wearing shorts & flip flops.
		
Click to expand...

I'm wearing such an outfit as we speak 

Said before I'm not going to judge, discipline your kids as you see fit. 

A couple of things though; permission to smack is permission to give your child 'a good hiding' who defines the line? My old man crossed it a few times & I know he regrets that. I'm not making that mistake. 

Also people without kids have no opinion. They simply aren't qualified. 
There is no link between crime & not smacking. Anecdotally, the community where it is acceptable to hit your kids also has a higher incidence of youth crime. There are other factors at work.


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## Robobum (Jul 26, 2015)

The Green Fairy said:



			Ah, browbeating a five year old really works then?

Best of luck with that.
		
Click to expand...

browbeating!?

Big jump you've made there. :thup:


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