# Standing UP on the downswing......help!!



## ADB (Jan 9, 2013)

I had the most dismal game on Sunday through the mist and gloom at my Club not helped by an uncontrollable low pull/hook. I have a tendancy to straighten on the downswing and I felt this happening on Sunday, but I couldn't do anything to prevent it. 

I have had a couple of lessons and the Pro called it 'shagging the ball' and we worked on steepening the angle of attack on the ball and getting my evit position a little flatter.

I suppose I just don't understand the reason behind standing up hence I just couldn't stop it from happening and i was hitting them all over the shop.

Any tips on maintaining spine angle through the hitting zone greatly received......


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## drawboy (Jan 9, 2013)

Try to focus on keeping your heels grounded through the swing and above all stop trying to smash the ball miles.


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## JustOne (Jan 10, 2013)

I have had a couple of lessons and the Pro called it 'shagging the ball' and we worked on steepening the angle of attack on the ball and getting my evit position a little flatter.
		
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You're referring to 'goat humping' or as it's really known Early Extension and it's caused by steepening the angle of attack into the ball 

It's where your hips move closer to the ball and you stand up into/thru impact as you KNOW the club is going to hit the ground. It's a 'knee jerk' or reflex action like swerving your car when you see a cat run out in the road, and it's Homer's nemesis 


You can get it with a *flat* backswing where you then steepen on the downswing and bail out of the shot or you can get it with a *steep* backswing where you then bail on the shot on the way down. It's kind of caused by not being able to lower the hands properly, combined with not allowing the pelvis to remain deep, but the root cause is that somewhere you get too steep and the radius of your swing gets bigger so the club is going to stick into the ground unless you do something urgently.

To my mind this is the best explaination of it...

[video=youtube;jUQmjdywsio]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQmjdywsio[/video]

Understanding it is often the best way to fix it. Understanding how to swing on plane, to keep some forward shaft lean on the club and rotate the soulders/pelvis properly is the ideal.


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## ADB (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanks James that is a very useful video. I know that I can also be a bit guilty of tensing up on the tee and not rotating shoulders and hips properly leading to a very 'armsy' swing - I presume this just accentuates the early extension.


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## JustOne (Jan 10, 2013)

Making the arms or the club 'longer' in the downswing is the culprit. If you watch most swings people set up with the club at approx 45 degrees at address but when they hit the ball the shaft is much more vertical so thay have to lift up out of the way, and by lifting up it makes the club more vertical  It's about getting the correct downswing plane so you don't need to do either.


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## Twire (Jan 10, 2013)

Just looked at a Crossfield video of this problem. He uses balance pads to try and groove a different swing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRh387NpRw


Anybody seen these on sale anywhere?


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## Foxholer (Jan 10, 2013)

Twire said:



			Just looked at a Crossfield video of this problem. He uses balance pads to try and groove a different swing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRh387NpRw


Anybody seen these on sale anywhere?
		
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I have a couple of these and found them very useful - and revealing! 

I got mine from Ebay. Here's a link to some http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stability...ss_Fitness_Accessories_ET&hash=item2326e42d6f


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## Twire (Jan 10, 2013)

Cheers Foxy


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## JustOne (Jan 10, 2013)

Twire said:



			Just looked at a Crossfield video of this problem. He uses balance pads to try and groove a different swing.
		
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They don't cure early extension as it's not really a balance issue.  (and they're not working for the guy in the video either). To be honest I'd NEVER stand on something unstable to make a golf swing.... ever.


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## ADB (Jan 10, 2013)

JustOne said:



			They don't cure early extension as it's not really a balance issue.  (and they're not working for the guy in the video either). To be honest I'd NEVER stand on something unstable to make a golf swing.... ever.
		
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Now you tell me, just twisted my ankle getting onto the kid's space hoppers 

If you fancy a knock round Pyecombe anytime James, let me know...:thup:


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## Twire (Jan 10, 2013)

JustOne said:



			They don't cure early extension as it's not really a balance issue.  (and they're not working for the guy in the video either). To be honest I'd NEVER stand on something unstable to make a golf swing.... ever.
		
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Have you tried them then? I don't think there is any gadget out there that cures swing faults. What these do is help you by using balance to stop you moving your butt forward. 

Early release is a problem I have, it was pointed out when I had a club fitting and had to get my clubs 2 degrees up to compensate. I have used the chair method down the range, but I'd like to see how these work. If it's good enough for Crossfield it's good enough for me.


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## JustOne (Jan 10, 2013)

Twire said:



			Early *release* is a problem I have, it was pointed out when I had a club fitting and had to get my clubs 2 degrees up to compensate..
		
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Early release or early extension? - they are different things.


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## Twire (Jan 10, 2013)

Sorry extension.


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## JustOne (Jan 10, 2013)

I'd add.... if you are standing on something then you're less likely to early extend as you won't feel like you need to stand up or bail out of the shot as your club won't be hitting the ground.... picture making a swing with a club that was a foot long...... or standing on a couple of bricks. It's not a balance issue.

apparently he's worked on it for two years? He's saved about an inch and Crossfield doesn't even let the video play.. in fact he rewinds it  (2min 48 secs)




No I haven't tried them, like I said I wouldn't ever stand on something wobbly to make a golf swing. I'm not against you buying them though, just giving my opinion that they won't help early extension.




snaphookwedge said:



			If you fancy a knock round Pyecombe anytime James, let me know...:thup:
		
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:thup::thup:


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## Twire (Jan 10, 2013)

JustOne said:



			I'd add.... if you are standing on something then you're less likely to early extend as you won't feel like you need to stand up or bail out of the shot as your club won't be hitting the ground.... picture making a swing with a club that was a foot long...... or standing on a couple of bricks. It's not a balance issue.

apparently he's worked on it for two years? He's saved about an inch and Crossfield doesn't even let the video play.. in fact he rewinds it  (2min 48 secs)

View attachment 4124


No I haven't tried them, like I said I wouldn't ever stand on something wobbly to make a golf swing. I'm not against you buying them though, just giving my opinion that they won't help early extension.




:thup::thup:
		
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He did tee the ball up high when using the stability pads, so this reduce the feeling of standing taller or on a couple of bricks as you put it. The guy hitting the ball plays off 1 (at least he did last year) so had a half decent swing in the first place, so the 1 inch correction is probably a major improvement for him. When I was filmed for my fitting I was probably moving 4-5 inches so the pads will have more effect on me.


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## JustOne (Jan 10, 2013)

If it works for you Twire it will have been worth the investment. I can't say otherwise, but common sense would suggest that if you were standing on those things and made a full speed swing you might POTENTIALLY have an accident or injury (agree?), so therefore you'll only be making slower swings..... can't you just do that anyway without the need to stand on wobbly things? If you watch the video at about 1min 50 when he makes his 'balanced' swing... watch his feet... does that look balanced? If you ask me he's fighting not to fall over... and that was with what I can only describe as an EASY swing...

and back to the first line... If it works for you Twire it will have been worth the investment. I can't say otherwise.


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## Kellfire (Jan 10, 2013)

JustOne said:



			You're referring to 'goat humping' or as it's really known Early Extension and it's caused by steepening the angle of attack into the ball 

It's where your hips move closer to the ball and you stand up into/thru impact as you KNOW the club is going to hit the ground. It's a 'knee jerk' or reflex action like swerving your car when you see a cat run out in the road, and it's Homer's nemesis 


You can get it with a *flat* backswing where you then steepen on the downswing and bail out of the shot or you can get it with a *steep* backswing where you then bail on the shot on the way down. It's kind of caused by not being able to lower the hands properly, combined with not allowing the pelvis to remain deep, but the root cause is that somewhere you get too steep and the radius of your swing gets bigger so the club is going to stick into the ground unless you do something urgently.

To my mind this is the best explaination of it...

[video=youtube;jUQmjdywsio]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQmjdywsio[/video]

Understanding it is often the best way to fix it. Understanding how to swing on plane, to keep some forward shaft lean on the club and rotate the soulders/pelvis properly is the ideal.
		
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This post could almost have been aimed at me. I look at my swing and I see exactly what this video talks about.


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## percy_layer (Jan 11, 2013)

Without seeing your swing (ideally from down the line), or wanting to contradict JustOne.

It could very well be a balance issue.

If you are mainly on your heels, there will be a strong tendency to straighten up either in your backswing and/or forward swing.
This flattens your shoulder plane and the club then swings underplane to the strike, also your forward rotation is restricted due to being unbalanced resulting in early extension which is made worse by the need to reach the ball because your swing centre is now further from the ball.

The Mark Crossfield video is ok, but I would much prefer to use a Prostance to work on it, the balance pads he uses don't allow the correct movement of the body through the strike and to the finish in my opinion.

I like the video JustOne put up, very clear and easy to follow.

Just need to determine the cause of your issue to be able to best advise how to sort it


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## ADB (Jan 11, 2013)

Percy

Here it is in all it's glory, apologies for the poor picture quality.

[video=youtube;ndF8kPDnc8c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndF8kPDnc8c&feature=youtube_gdata[/video]

Many thanks SHW


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## bobmac (Jan 11, 2013)

In my opinion its all in the pelvis.
Note the angle the pelvis is at at address and maintain that angle throughout the swing and you wont stand up.


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## DaveyG (Jan 11, 2013)

JustOne said:



			POTENTIALLY have an accident or injury (agree?), .
		
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Its not worth having all of those calls in the day saying you are entitled to Â£XXXX


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## JustOne (Jan 11, 2013)

snaphookwedge said:



			Here it is in all it's glory, apologies for the poor picture quality.
		
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Hopefully the video I posted in #3 will help you,,,,,

Has your left hip gone SouthWest? Has your right shoulder gone down, out and targetwards?


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## ADB (Jan 11, 2013)

Yes, yes - at least I knew the problem, curing it is another matter as that is how I have swing a club for 25 years....real vs feel!!


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## Evesdad (Jan 11, 2013)

Wow didn't think I did this but I do! The video explained well so hopefully can get this drilled in! As SHW said been swinging the same way for so long it's going to get some getting rid of!


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## JustOne (Jan 11, 2013)

bobmac said:



			In my opinion its all in the pelvis.
Note the angle the pelvis is at at address and maintain that angle throughout the swing and you wont stand up.
		
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I'm not so sure about 'maintain that angle' through the swing as the pelvis angles change constantly through the swing, however I would say be *MINDFUL* of the pelvis angle at address and try to RE-INSTATE that position on the downswing....

I made a video..... 

[video=youtube;nRbN73hoZKQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRbN73hoZKQ[/video]


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## bobmac (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm not so sure about 'maintain that angle' through the swing as the pelvis angles change constantly through the swing,
		
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Its a swing thought I have used over the years and has been very successful.


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## Foxholer (Jan 12, 2013)

JustOne said:



			They don't cure early extension as it's not really a balance issue.  (and they're not working for the guy in the video either). To be honest I'd NEVER stand on something unstable to make a golf swing.... ever.
		
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The balance pads showed that I moved weight onto my toes, so was 'falling' forward on the down-swing, so the reflex EE kicked in. After a bit of adjustment of balance, a better hip turn on the back-swing and a similar thought, if not action, that Bob mentions, it felt considerably smoother - and I could 'hold the chair' on the other 'test' (that shows the amount of butt/hips movement).

So, while I agree that the pads don't cure the problem, they provide great evidence/feedback of it. Evidential rather than corrective training aids. I agree that full swings with them could be a bit hairy, so I never have. They certainly quieten my action when putting!

I believe balance, and reflex, play an enormous role in the golf swing - far greater than is generally acknowledged.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 12, 2013)

I have a theory as well:

I think the right knee and the way it works forward in the downswing can be the trigger that creates the problem with early extension.

Let me explain:

If the right knee works out towards the ball in the downswing it will take the right hip with it. From here the right hip is pushed forward and the right arm no longer has a clear path to bring the clubhead to the ball on an inside path, so the arm gets blocked.  From here the only path available for the club is severely in to out which will either create a shank, or hook if the wrists make a flip to try and save the shot.   Another reaction is to pull in the butt and stand up so that the right arm can be pulled into the body such that the clubhead gets a path back to the ball again.

To stop this the right knee needs to work in towards the left knee with the right foot rolling inwards.  This action keeps the right hip back and the tooch line intact.


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