# Official Society Handicaps



## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

With the continueing decline of membership in clubs, and the fact that more and more players are wanting social and society golf, isn't it about time that the powers that be (Congu) start looking at allowing properly organised Golf Societies to operate the official handicap scheme exactly as per clubs. By properly organised I mean having the same type of officials, the same rules, the same software, and be members also of the "home" county union, paying also the same fees. This I am sure would be a win win situation and would stop the decline in the number of people playing due usually to the outlandish sums that are asked for to join a club - thoughts Gents (oh now we are all the same, Ladies!)


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

Why would a society need "official HC" if they are just playing in societies as opposed to qualfiying comps ?

Isn't the whole idea about being in a society to play relaxed golf in a friendly environment on courses new to the people as opposed to adding on the extra weight of the HC being official 

Also it allows organisers to try different types of games etc 

The societies I play in most if not all are already members of a club anyway with other societies being a one off day. 

I personally don't see the need - either social and society or official and competitive ?


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## KenL (Apr 8, 2016)

I say no!  We need to keep people as members of clubs. The game, as we know it, would soon die off without club members.

Society golf is for fun & bandits!


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

There are more bandits in clubs than in properly organised societies!


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## patricks148 (Apr 8, 2016)

KenL said:



			I say no!  We need to keep people as members of clubs. The game, as we know it, would soon die off without club members.

Society golf is for fun & bandits!
		
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we don't have many if any Society's up here, most people who play golf are club members around here.

not sure its a good idea, would be another nail in the coffin of golf clubs elsewhere i would imagine.


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Love the area, but sadly, not representative of the majority of golfers


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

The old bugbear, you are not a "real golfer" if you do not have an official handicap - Victorian values that I for one am trying to change


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			There are more bandits in clubs than in properly organised societies!
		
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What's a properly organised society as opposed to your average normal run of the mill society ? 

Why does a society need to official HC if not playing in HC qualfiying comps


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

A lot including running the same systems as clubs - all society meetings would be handicap qualifiers - and there would be a 100% take up by members unlike the average 35% that club competitions attract


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## Old Skier (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			With the continueing decline of membership in clubs, and the fact that more and more players are wanting social and society golf, isn't it about time that the powers that be (Congu) start looking at allowing properly organised Golf Societies to operate the official handicap scheme exactly as per clubs.
		
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You mean like ------------- being in a golf club


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			There are more bandits in clubs than in properly organised societies!
		
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Rubbish!

I ran a society for several years that operated a proper handicapping system. It was impossible for the handicaps to truly reflect the players ability as comps/meets weren't as frequent as golf club competitions. Players might play every week, seeing the ability improve or decline, but a once a month card for handicapping purposes just doesn't work. It's not the players fault, it's purely down to how often cards are put before the society sec.

Personally, I stopped playing society golf as pretty much every outing I'd need to shoot at least a course record to stand a chance of a prize.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			A lot including running the same systems as clubs - all society meetings would be handicap qualifiers - and there would be a 100% take up by members unlike the average 35% that club competitions attract
		
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Why would someone play in a society meeting and have it as a HC qualifier ? that takes away the whole idea of is being a Society. 

Make Society meets qualifiers and societies would disappear. 

Again why does a society need to have officials HC and the meets qualifiers ?


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Yep, but with the added attraction of playing many clubs, off whites, and all official, and still paying EGU and County fees, - One club membership is not everyones cup of tee, and the old adage of having to join a club to get an official handicap is dying very quickly!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Yep, but with the added attraction of playing many clubs, off whites, and all official, and still paying EGU and County fees, - One club membership is not everyones cup of tee, and the old adage of having to join a club to get an official handicap is dying very quickly!
		
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It's not dying at all - you can only have an official HC being a member of an affiliated club - that hasn't changed so how is it dying ? EGU and Congu won't change that at all. 

Surely it's up to the clubs to decide what tees you play off not the society and I don't expect many clubs will allow any society to play qualifying comps on their course


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## fundy (Apr 8, 2016)

I can see the sense of this for a small portion of societies (and the likelihoood would be that some got created if this was possible), I dont think it would be suitable for how many current societies are run.

It would work where you had a group of guys who didnt want to be tied to one club but still wanted to play competitively and have an official handicap to allow them to enter open comps etc

Would have an initial negative effect on certainly some clubs (not that that on its own makes it wrong)


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

You obviously have not seen the official figures over the past two years - so what is wrong with an affiliated society offering handicaps? - One society that I run has played over 350 events since 1988 @ 15 per year, averaging 25 per meeting, and I can assure you that the members handicaps are a darn site more accurate that their club handicaps. And its all types of clubs, we play, which has included St andrews New & Old, Sillouth, RND, Saunton, Wentworth, Canmberley Heath, West Hill, Broadstone, remedy Oak.................shall I go on?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			You obviously have not seen the official figures over the past two years - so what is wrong with an affiliated society offering handicaps? - One society that I run has played over 350 events since 1988 @ 15 per year, averaging 25 per meeting, and I can assure you that the members handicaps are a darn site more accurate that their club handicaps. And its all types of clubs, we play, which has included St andrews New & Old, Sillouth, RND, Saunton, Wentworth, Canmberley Heath, West Hill, Broadstone, remedy Oak.................shall I go on?
		
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What official figures are they - you said "old adage of joining a club to gain an official HC is dying" - how is it "dying" when it's the only way to gain a HC ?

Excellent list of courses - I have played them both in socities and opens and enjoyed them - your point being ?

Why does the HC need to be "official" if you society are just playing society meets and the HC is "more accurate" - why the need to make it official ? Does a member need an official HC to join your society ?


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## fundy (Apr 8, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What official figures are they - you said "old adage of joining a club to gain an official HC is dying" - how is it "dying" when it's the only way to gain a HC ?

Excellent list of courses - I have played them both in socities and opens and enjoyed them - your point being ?

Why does the HC need to be "official" if you society are just playing society meets and the HC is "more accurate" - why the need to make it official ? Does a member need an official HC to join your society ?
		
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You could very easily reverse the question Phil and ask why is the only way to get an official handicap to be a full time member of a club? Theres definitely a lot of golfers out there who arent members of a club but that would like an alternative (and potentially cheaper) way of having and maintaining an official handicap, able to enter national comps, matchplays, opens etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

fundy said:



			You could very easily reverse the question Phil and ask why is the only way to get an official handicap to be a full time member of a club? Theres definitely a lot of golfers out there who arent members of a club but that would like an alternative (and potentially cheaper) way of having and maintaining an official handicap, able to enter national comps, matchplays, opens etc
		
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Because the golf club is where the future stars get nurtured - the golf clubs are the life and breath of the game. The clubs need members and regular people paying to keep them alive and to keep the game alive in th country. There are lots of cheap ways to play golf and join a club cheaply to gain an official HC.

The EGU and other governing bodies are never going to put something in place that could and IMO would damage the game of golf. If someone wants to enter opens and national comps then the entry criteria is there for a reason.


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## Oxfordcomma (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			I can assure you that the members handicaps are a darn site more accurate that their club handicaps.
		
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I'm interested in that bit - if the members' society Hcaps are more accurate, are you applying deeper cuts for winning and also letting people rise more quickly? I've played with groups before that will chop a couple of shots off a playing handicap for coming first, hitting 40 pts, etc.

I can see where you're coming from but I don't see what you're gaining here. If you're applying the same criteria as CONGU to your handicap changes, but your society handicaps are more accurate, then you've surely got some members protecting their club (official) handicaps? Or, if you're applying different rules to get them more accurate, you lose that if you're allowed to affiliate?


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 8, 2016)

so how do you vet peoples h/caps if all your members havent got one?
 they might be good golfers ,but they havent got a h/cap ,so how do you stop the bandits joining and taking your prizes every time. 
i for one wouldnt trust a society h/cap


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			You obviously have not seen the official figures over the past two years - so what is wrong with an affiliated society offering handicaps? - One society that I run has played over 350 events since 1988 @ 15 per year, averaging 25 per meeting, and I can assure you that the members handicaps are a darn site more accurate that their club handicaps. And its all types of clubs, we play, which has included St andrews New & Old, Sillouth, RND, Saunton, Wentworth, Canmberley Heath, West Hill, Broadstone, remedy Oak.................shall I go on?
		
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Still not convinced. Have you got a link to the official figures? 

From my own experience, with a society of over 80 members averaging over 30 at outings, the winning scores were often outlandish. And that was when using the CONGU system. One of the problems was that members didn't come to every outing. Many members played almost every week but might only turn up to half a dozen of the outings. If there's several rounds played with mates, and cards aren't returned for handicapping purposes, how can their handicap be accurate?

As to a society having an official CONGU handicap, and not entering club opens etc, I don't have a problem with that at all. Manage it however you like but if players aren't returning cards on a regular basis, but playing regularly, I wouldn't want to be competing against them in opens.


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## DCB (Apr 8, 2016)

KenL said:



			I say no!  We need to keep people as members of clubs. The game, as we know it, would soon die off without club members.

Society golf is for fun & bandits!
		
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Is a great answer &#9786;


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## Old Skier (Apr 8, 2016)

I've played in many societies and run three and I have never been in one were the handicap adjustments are implemented correctly. Congratulations for doing it correctly, do you do it manually or by recommended software.


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Look, and you will find the official figures over the last few years! - You hit the nail on the head in saying that it is the "only" way to get an official handicap - WHY? - Its just a ruse to keep members clubs charging or trying to charge outlandish sums - surely a true handicap is exactly that, irrespective of whether it is from an "official" club or not - CLUB and CONGU must change, or else the numbers playing gold will continue to plummet - do please read the official reports!


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Look, and you will find the official figures over the last few years! - You hit the nail on the head in saying that it is the "only" way to get an official handicap - WHY? - Its just a ruse to keep members clubs charging or trying to charge outlandish sums - surely a true handicap is exactly that, irrespective of whether it is from an "official" club or not - CLUB and CONGU must change, or else the numbers playing gold will continue to plummet - do please read the official reports!
		
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post up a link mate :thup:


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

You have just agreed with me ! - Society handicaps CAN be better than club ones just for the fact that all who play in Society meetings will / can have their hcaps adjusted - how many do this at their clubs on their twice a week roll ups!?


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

So whats different from a club if same rules apply?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Look, and you will find the official figures over the last few years! - You hit the nail on the head in saying that it is the "only" way to get an official handicap - WHY? - Its just a ruse to keep members clubs charging or trying to charge outlandish sums - surely a true handicap is exactly that, irrespective of whether it is from an "official" club or not - CLUB and CONGU must change, or else the numbers playing gold will continue to plummet - do please read the official reports!
		
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Which "official" reports and figures are you talking about ? 

Please post up the link for the official figures that you are talking about 

And please why exactly do you need to have official HC if you are just playing society golf ?


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Read GCMA, EGU, etc etc


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Read GCMA, EGU, etc etc
		
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Read what exactly ? You keep talking about official figures but for what exactly you haven't said - if you let me know exactly which figures you are talking about I will read it


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 8, 2016)

Obviously posted by someone who has a chip on his shoulder about golf clubs.

Clubs and their operation of the handicap system are monitored by the authorities. How would that be possible with the looser structures of societies and if the society was not more relaxed in its structure what is the point? Why not join a club?


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

They are more accurate because  every Society meeting is a qualifier - how many club members play in regular competitions - be truthful - you would be lucky if it were 30%


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

What pray is different to a club then?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			They are more accurate because  every Society meeting is a qualifier - how many club members play in regular competitions - be truthful - you would be lucky if it were 30%
		
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http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?33272-UK-Handicapping-system&p=461659

Seems we have been here before 

They aren't qualifiers they are society meets


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Oh yes, one would expect abuse - I am a club member, an ex captain and many other attributes that I will not mention, and I certainly do not have a chip on my shoulder. Do you honestly think that the authorities monitor it all - Ha - I have run Club handicaps and their systems for years and can assure you that it is far from what you seem to elude! - If you care to read what I said, properly run societies (a la, same rules as clubs etc), then you might find a way to see what I am saying. He who operates the club handicap system for the club has full and utter control of the handicapping - full stop! - the counties and EGU are dependant solely on what they are told by the handicapping person from each club - if you don,t believe me, well do the job itself and find out!


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 8, 2016)

he does do the job .


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

And are not club competitions, club meets? - I seem to be in conversation with someone who is totally blinkered and unable to discuss alternatives - watch out, the metiorite is coming for the dinasaurs!


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Official systems!


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## DCB (Apr 8, 2016)

Okay, we get it, you don't like the handicap system we have in this country. You don't like golf clubs...although where would the societies play without them.

How about changing the record, we've heard this one before ... many times before


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Look, and you will find the official figures over the last few years! - You hit the nail on the head in saying that it is the "only" way to get an official handicap - WHY? - Its just a ruse to keep members clubs charging or trying to charge outlandish sums - surely a true handicap is exactly that, irrespective of whether it is from an "official" club or not - CLUB and CONGU must change, or else the numbers playing gold will continue to plummet - do please read the official reports!
		
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Well, I have read the official reports on golf club membership, and your plummet is a bit disingenuous. At height of the slump memberships were dropping by on average 17%. The last 3 years has seen that drop to 3%. During the last 8 years, i.e. during the economic crisis, pretty much every club has refined its business model both in terms of the various subs option and green fees. Many have also restructured their staffing levels, and even when the bar is open on a winter's evening.

If you think society golf is going to be the saviour of golf clubs and golf you are at best naive.

At the various clubs I've been a member at the rollups on a comp day are a group of players that all throw in a few quid, and whoever posts the best score in the comp that day picks up the pot. Their cards are still processed through the comp for handicap purposes.

In club comps my handicap is competitive. In Society golf it isn't. And in opens, where there are some bandits, its somewhere in between. But its not just about the handicap being competitive, its also about where I finish in relation to par. How accurate is a handicap that allows me to finish 8-10 under par? It would make me competitive in society golf it isn't a true reflection of my playing ability against the course.

Going back to the initial question, why do you need a CONGU handicap to play society golf? C'mon, be honest. You want access to club opens. You want the benefits of membership without having to pay for it. Your society fee for the day, or comp entry fee, wouldn't contribute a decent percentage towards presenting the course in a manner you want. If that isn't the reason, why not just carry on as you are?


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Numbers playing golf are at their lowest for ten years - numbers as members of golf clubs the same - if you want to just read all the lovey dovey adverts in the main line mags, then you obviously do not know what is going on - Golf over the past few years has been dying - many clubs are at last getting out of their coffins and offering more modern ways of playing and paying for their golf (flexi etc) - if all was / is rosy with clubs, why have so many closed this last year, and they are NOT all proprietors clubs either! - Suggest you read a few more trade golf organisation mags and the like


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			if you don,t believe me, well do the job itself and find out!
		
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I think you'll find several of the dinosaurs on here are doing just that every week. That's why they feel well qualified to argue against your case.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Oh yes, one would expect abuse - I am a club member, an ex captain and many other attributes that I will not mention, and I certainly do not have a chip on my shoulder. Do you honestly think that the authorities monitor it all - Ha - I have run Club handicaps and their systems for years and can assure you that it is far from what you seem to elude! - If you care to read what I said, properly run societies (a la, same rules as clubs etc), then you might find a way to see what I am saying. He who operates the club handicap system for the club has full and utter control of the handicapping - full stop! - the counties and EGU are dependant solely on what they are told by the handicapping person from each club - if you don,t believe me, well do the job itself and find out!
		
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Sorry, I have only been a golf-club member for 44 years so will have to bow to your superior knowledge. And obviously the offices I held and committees served on would be so much less important than your own.

However, I fail to see why the established system would benefit by recognising society handicaps and hosting so called qualifying competitions operated by unregulated societies.

If people want the structure currently offered by golf clubs then the answer is really quite simple. They should join a club.


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Numbers playing golf are at their lowest for ten years - numbers as members of golf clubs the same - if you want to just read all the lovey dovey adverts in the main line mags, then you obviously do not know what is going on - Golf over the past few years has been dying - many clubs are at last getting out of their coffins and offering more modern ways of playing and paying for their golf (flexi etc) - if all was / is rosy with clubs, why have so many closed this last year, and they are NOT all proprietors clubs either! - Suggest you read a few more trade golf organisation mags and the like
		
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You are making some wild assumptions that I don't. As an ex-treasurer and a head of finance I know exactly how to guide a club through difficult times... very successfully. But crack on, at least you're entertaining.


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## rickg (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			I seem to be in conversation with someone who is totally blinkered and unable to discuss alternatives -
		
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Quite ironic this post.


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

At last, someone who has taken the time to listen! - It is only because the numbers have fallen so much that clubs have had to restructure their staff levels. I do not say that Society golf is the saviour, but it is one way. The Authoritarian system as in UK in that only CONGU clubs can issue "official" handicaps is wrong, and must be changed - it is as near to Communism as I see anything.
As per your roll up, well how can the roll up cards be processed through the system for handicap systems - that is not allowed under Congu rules! - may I suggest that where that is done, it is at the behest of who ever is doing the handicap system for the club - he has TOTAL control on anyones handicap changes and can change within reason what he wishes - no-one from any of the computer systems would ever know, and Congu exactly the same!
And you say you need CONGU handicaps for access to club opens - WHY? - be truthfull, how many club opens in your average clubs, are getting anywhere as near the number of entries against a few years ago!


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

So. protect the club - spoil it for those that wish not to, or are unable to, join a club - shades of elitetism!


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## Simbo (Apr 8, 2016)

You still haven't told us why you want an official Congu handicap. If you can assure us that your society one is just as accurate then why bother??
You seem to think that what you are trying to sell is the future of golf, I think the opposite, I think the pay and play mercenary golfers will kill golf clubs. Clubs need a steady income from memberships to keep the course in good condition, it doesn't get that from societies. Having an official Congu handicap is a benefit of being a club member, allowing you to play in opens and other competitions. It might well be the carrot they dangle to get you to join a club but if they didn't have there would be more clubs closing than there already is.


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

That is of course if all clubs were equal - what about the three 100 year old clubs that closed last year around Edinburgh then, why wern't they saved....maybe, just maybe, you had a long term succesfull club and maybe with no competition for many miles! (and as a repost, I own a number of companies, all very succesfull)


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

Only the DVLA can issue driving licences. Is that communism?

Roll ups; everyone in our group enters the Saturday Medal. Whoever posts the best score picks up the pot. They will, in all probability, not win the Medal but they might win our sweep.

*Can you please answer a straight question.* Do you want society members to be able to enter club opens?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			And you say you need CONGU handicaps for access to club opens - WHY? - be truthfull, how many club opens in your average clubs, are getting anywhere as near the number of entries against a few years ago!
		
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Because anything else is likely to be a "Bandit's Charter".

Not just Clubs that have experienced a fall in numbers but also many societies, particularly, I believe, in the South and South West.


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Sadly, the smug elitism of this statement does not warrant a reply - were you not a pay and player before you joined a club? - I recognise that a number of what you might call "muni" golfers can be trying at times, so too can many home club members whence visiting from another club!


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

All golf is falling in numbers - the answer sadly is cost - the average green fee now is just too expensive at many clubs - remember, a green fee costs the club nothing, zilch! - A couple years ago whilst organising a series of large events over the year, I wanted to play a particular course - their individual gfee then was Â£75 - I asked what it would be as I would be bringing 40 to 50 along to play (mainly cat 1 & 2 ) and the answer was Â£75 pp - I went elsewhere - I politely told that club that I considered Â£45 about right for their club for 40 visitors, and that 40 players at Â£45 was alot more income than none @ Â£75 - Head in Sand scenario - A year later this course is now offering deals @ Â£45 - I am not saying Society golf is the be all and end all, but it will certainly help and should be looked at more favourably from all concerned, especially CONGU!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Sadly, the smug elitism of this statement does not warrant a reply - were you not a pay and player before you joined a club? - I recognise that a number of what you might call "muni" golfers can be trying at times, so too can many home club members whence visiting from another club!
		
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Hard to tell at whom your remark may be directed but if it is myself the answer is; no I was never a pay and player, but I have always been welcoming to visitors that I encountered at the clubs of which I have been a member.

That, however, does not mean I would welcome society players in Club Opens.


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

*You've still not answered the question. Do you want society members to enter club opens?



*


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

I have an IDL, so that is not relevent! So the roll up is actually the Saturday medal, not quite the same! And as for you last question, why not if they have an official handicap as issued by a relavent body, be it a club, a society, or a tour (By the way, did you realise that there are Amateur Tours now that are authorised to appoint official handicaps !)


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

I have just answered !


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 8, 2016)

Gross over simplification to suggest that cost is the sole reason for falling participation numbers.

There are many contributory factors and cost is only one. More choices of available activities, the desire by many for "fast" pastimes etc;


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Not even if they had the same governing rules as clubs - why should they be any different - they more likely would be more realistic !


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## LCVreg (Apr 8, 2016)

Cost sadly is 80% of the problem amongst mere mortals - I know a 4 handicappetr who has a young family in Surrey who has had to give up the game solely because he cannot afford club rates!


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## Hobbit (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			I have an IDL, so that is not relevent! So the roll up is actually the Saturday medal, not quite the same! And as for you last question, why not if they have an official handicap as issued by a relavent body, be it a club, a society, or a tour (By the way, did you realise that there are Amateur Tours now that are authorised to appoint official handicaps !)
		
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So what you are really after is the member's benefits without the members costs. Who do you think pays for the day to day running of a golf club? Who puts money over the bar in the depths of winter?

Your business model would see memberships drop further, and more clubs go out of business. Getting regular golf @ Â£45 a go would cost me Â£1800. Why be a society member when I can get all the benefits of a club at Â£600?

Personally, I don't see it as elitism. I see it as protecting the longevity of the golf club.


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## Oxfordcomma (Apr 8, 2016)

LCVReg, is there any chance you could use the quote function? It's getting a bit hard to follow who you're actually talking to and what you're on about when you answer 4 people at once in consecutive posts.


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## TheJezster (Apr 9, 2016)

Wow, bizarre thread. Interesting reading but can't see the OPs idea doing anything other than killing golf clubs. It's very one dimensional thinking by the OP.


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## Smiffy (Apr 9, 2016)

All this talk of "The Authoritarian system", "Meteors coming to get the dinosaurs", "mere mortals", "total control" etc.

I've sussed it.

You're George Orwell aren't you???


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## Simbo (Apr 9, 2016)

U



Hobbit said:



			So what you are really after is the member's benefits without the members costs. Who do you think pays for the day to day running of a golf club? Who puts money over the bar in the depths of winter?

Your business model would see memberships drop further, and more clubs go out of business. Getting regular golf @ Â£45 a go would cost me Â£1800. Why be a society member when I can get all the benefits of a club at Â£600?

Personally, I don't see it as elitism. I see it as protecting the longevity of the golf club.
		
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I agree with this, elitism- my backside, all you want is to have membership benefits without the rough and smooth of being a member, when the course starts to get a little wet or the greens a little rough your society would up and off somewhere else leaving the club in the lurch. Your comment on the 4 capper giving up, that happens when you have a family, plenty guys have it happen to them, our club champion isn't joining this year for this reason.


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## bluewolf (Apr 9, 2016)

There are plenty of local Muni clubs that offer very cheap membership (with reduced green fees rather than pay up front). These allow you to hold a valid handicap, enter Open competitions, enter the big prize comps (race to dubai etc), and don't require a large outlay.. IIRC, Haigh Hall (near me) is less than Â£100 for this type of membership...


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

You are indeed lucky to get as much free golf per year for Â£600 - sadly, you therefore should not opinionate over the rest of the country who more than likely have to pay at least double that.

All I am trying to suggest is another way of keeping our beloved game alive and thriving which it has not been for a number of years for many reasons - if it is not elitetism that club members are vociferously protecting their own position, then what is it! - How many of you joined a golf club, and then started playing.......it is always the other way round!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Do you know how many true munis are left? - you would be surprised how few!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Oxfordcomma said:



			LCVReg, is there any chance you could use the quote function? It's getting a bit hard to follow who you're actually talking to and what you're on about when you answer 4 people at once in consecutive posts. 

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oops - OK - experienced in Golf management, not on this Forum though!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2016)

When looking at the courses you play for society and some of them being close to Â£200 a round im not sure how valid blaming cost of membership is - if you can afford to play in your society meets then I suggest people can afford membership


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## Hobbit (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			You are indeed lucky to get as much free golf per year for Â£600 - sadly, you therefore should not opinionate over the rest of the country who more than likely have to pay at least double that.

All I am trying to suggest is another way of keeping our beloved game alive and thriving which it has not been for a number of years for many reasons - if it is not elitetism that club members are vociferously protecting their own position, then what is it! - How many of you joined a golf club, and then started playing.......it is always the other way round!
		
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Maybe if you were a regular visitor here you'd be aware of where I've been a member and what I've paid to be a member of various clubs in the UK. So far this golfing year I've paid out Â£1700 in subs. But who wants to discriminate about subs? Only you.

Can I suggest you take onboard ALL of what is in a post, rather than just a few bits that either support your agenda or that you can shoot down. But to reiterate, and perhaps make it more relevant to anywhere in the UK. If I played 40 rounds a year at Â£45 a round I'd be paying out Â£1800. I'd rather take onboard the Â£1800 a year for club membership than play society golf. Why? Because it gives me almost unlimited access to golf, to competitions and to a membership of circa 600 that would mean I could get a game with someone at any time.

How many societies play 40 times a year? And of those societies, how many members play every game? It's cheaper to be a club member.

Anyway, back to what we finally got to the bottom of last night. You want all the benefits of a membership without all the costs and commitment.

As for you wanting to keep our beloved game alive rubbish. Societies are welcomed at the vast majority of golf clubs already. So what is your problem? Go back to your original post. You want a CONGU handicap for your own benefit, not for the club's benefit.

Or maybe go back to the thread you posted up in 2011, in which you slagged off CONGU...


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## Old Skier (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Official systems!
		
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If that's in response to my query.

The official recognized handicap software - as an ex handicap secretary you should know that.

EGU? - no such animal, if you are quoting their figures you are at least 2 years out of date.

Golf courses require members in numbers to survive so without the members golf courses would close and society's would have no where to go. Although society's provide great finances for a club and are very welcome at ours and can play of any tee they are not the life blood of golf clubs.

What really annoys me about a golf club is when I can get a cheaper deal with my society's than I can with my county card. If clubs reversed that they may find more people who play in society's may feel it more beneficial to operate out of a club and get an official handicap.


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## Old Skier (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			You are indeed lucky to get as much free golf per year for Â£600 - sadly, you therefore should not opinionate over the rest of the country who more than likely have to pay at least double that.

All I am trying to suggest is another way of keeping our beloved game alive and thriving which it has not been for a number of years for many reasons - if it is not elitetism that club members are vociferously protecting their own position, then what is it! - How many of you joined a golf club, and then started playing.......it is always the other way round!
		
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There is not a golf course in N Devon were membership is pluss of Â£1000 and we have two clubs in the top 100. I spend more in society golf than I do in club membership.


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## Duckster (Apr 9, 2016)

I am still failing to see why you care about having a CONGU handicap if your society one is so spot on.

It's your society, you could make up and entire new system for doing handicaps taking into account the phases of the moon or deductions for how breezey it was in the morning, why do you need the CONGU one?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2016)

Duckster said:



			I am still failing to see why you care about having a CONGU handicap if your society one is so spot on.

It's your society, you could make up and entire new system for doing handicaps taking into account the phases of the moon or deductions for how breezey it was in the morning, why do you need the CONGU one?
		
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Because he and his society members want to also play in opens etc of which you need an official HC


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## DCB (Apr 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because he and his society members want to also play in opens etc of which you need an official HC
		
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Which is really the question he isn't answering


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 9, 2016)

Duckster said:



			I am still failing to see why you care about having a CONGU handicap if your society one is so spot on.

It's your society, you could make up and entire new system for doing handicaps taking into account the phases of the moon or deductions for how breezey it was in the morning, why do you need the CONGU one?
		
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Because he wants society only members to be able to play in official open competitions organised by clubs that will, in any event, no longer exist as everyone will instead of being club members have joined societies.

I think that is it!?

Or just maybe enough of we club members will keep paying subs that will have to significantly increase so the courses can be maintained for society members to come and play for Â£25 a round. Oh yes and they will be able to play in the opens that the dinosaurs organise and subsidise.

The decline in numbers both taking up and staying within the game does, of course, need addressing but it will not be resolved by promoting societies at the expense of club members or by extending the handicap system to include societies, properly organised or otherwise. 

Nor, it must be said, will the game benefit from discouraging societies who provide vital income for many clubs but do not have to share the responsibilities.


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## Old Skier (Apr 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			The decline in numbers both taking up and staying within the game does, of course, need addressing but it will not be resolved by promoting societies at the expense of club members or by extending the handicap system to include societies, properly organised or otherwise. 

Nor, it must be said, will the game benefit from discouraging societies who provide vital income for many clubs but do not have to share the responsibilities.
		
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Clubs offer society golf to cheap at many courses, perhaps if they had two levels of payment - society members with county cards one rate and society's without county cards another rate it might encourage more people who play to join a club.


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe if you were a regular visitor here you'd be aware of where I've been a member and what I've paid to be a member of various clubs in the UK. So far this golfing year I've paid out Â£1700 in subs. But who wants to discriminate about subs? Only you.

Can I suggest you take onboard ALL of what is in a post, rather than just a few bits that either support your agenda or that you can shoot down. But to reiterate, and perhaps make it more relevant to anywhere in the UK. If I played 40 rounds a year at Â£45 a round I'd be paying out Â£1800. I'd rather take onboard the Â£1800 a year for club membership than play society golf. Why? Because it gives me almost unlimited access to golf, to competitions and to a membership of circa 600 that would mean I could get a game with someone at any time.

How many societies play 40 times a year? And of those societies, how many members play every game? It's cheaper to be a club member.

Anyway, back to what we finally got to the bottom of last night. You want all the benefits of a membership without all the costs and commitment.

As for you wanting to keep our beloved game alive rubbish. Societies are welcomed at the vast majority of golf clubs already. So what is your problem? Go back to your original post. You want a CONGU handicap for your own benefit, not for the club's benefit.

Or maybe go back to the thread you posted up in 2011, in which you slagged off CONGU...[/QU

Exactly - you are compounding your own thoughts - Yes, I do want a handicap for my own benefit, not the clubs benefit - why the hell would I want it for the clubs benefit!
		
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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Clubs offer society golf to cheap at many courses, perhaps if they had two levels of payment - society members with county cards one rate and society's without county cards another rate it might encourage more people who play to join a club.
		
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Clubs have realised that their green fees for visitors are TOO expensive, that is why the County Card Scheme was invented - New intakes to the game do not have access to county cards unless they join a club first - isnt this a bit of a catch 22 situation


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Clubs have realised that their green fees for visitors are TOO expensive, that is why the County Card Scheme was invented - New intakes to the game do not have access to county cards unless they join a club first - isnt this a bit of a catch 22 situation
		
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Really?

I first had a County Card 40 years ago. They were seen as a courtesy/reciprocal arrangement amongst members of clubs within a county.


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			If that's in response to my query.

The official recognized handicap software - as an ex handicap secretary you should know that.

EGU? - no such animal, if you are quoting their figures you are at least 2 years out of date.

Golf courses require members in numbers to survive so without the members golf courses would close and society's would have no where to go. Although society's provide great finances for a club and are very welcome at ours and can play of any tee they are not the life blood of golf clubs.

What really annoys me about a golf club is when I can get a cheaper deal with my society's than I can with my county card. If clubs reversed that they may find more people who play in society's may feel it more beneficial to operate out of a club and get an official handicap.
		
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EGU, England Golf, what is in a name


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## Hobbit (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Exactly - you are compounding your own thoughts - Yes, I do want a handicap for my own benefit, not the clubs benefit - why the hell would I want it for the clubs benefit!
		
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Excellent! 

We've established through your posts that you want cheap green fees and a CONGU handicap so you can play open competitions. You want to take but give little back to "this beloved game" you want to protect.

Why not be honest from the start instead of spouting all that holier than thou white knight on a charger bull about protecting the game. You want full access to golf on the cheap.


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			If that's in response to my query.

The official recognized handicap software - as an ex handicap secretary you should know that.

EGU? - no such animal, if you are quoting their figures you are at least 2 years out of date.

Golf courses require members in numbers to survive so without the members golf courses would close and society's would have no where to go. Although society's provide great finances for a club and are very welcome at ours and can play of any tee they are not the life blood of golf clubs.

What really annoys me about a golf club is when I can get a cheaper deal with my society's than I can with my county card. If clubs reversed that they may find more people who play in society's may feel it more beneficial to operate out of a club and get an official handicap.
		
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And by the way, played your oppos acros the bay last Weds - Love Saunton and love RND even more! - in fact my favourite club of the lot, (of 378 played) - but both have more "country and long distance members" than normal clubs. North Devon is very unlike the majority of the rest of the UK having so many fewer courses, and also being so far away from the rest of the world (you know what I mean), - I also know that you have lost a couple of courses recently, Willingcott a few weeks ago I hear - all very sad as each and every course and their members and pay as you players have very little choice to continue their sport. I hve always believed that golf should be a sport for all,and available for all,  hence one reason for my spat about Societies and also against Some golf clubs and some of their members views. Saunton by the way has one of the friendliest welcomes and staff that I have seen anyway!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

DCB said:



			Which is really the question he isn't answering 

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He (I!) have answered - I do not see why a golf club member is any better than a Golf Society member when it comes to handicaps - the majority of club members have just 5 qualifying scores per year ( facts from GCMA members!) - one society I run has 15 ! - so why do you assume club members have a more exact handicap than equivalent society members.


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## Hobbit (Apr 9, 2016)

I'd like to hire a Ferrari 20 weekends a year but only pay Mondeo rates. After a few years the Ferrari will be knackered, but don't worry, you'll have banked enough to buy another......... Mondeo.

Thats the future using your business model. 

As to your, "the majority of club member have just 5 qualifying scores per year," absolute fact without a doubt. But what you either fail to understand or choose to ignore, is that 60% of members aren't interested in competition golf. The vast majority of actively competitive club golfers play significantly more than 5 qualifiers a year.


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Duckster said:



			I am still failing to see why you care about having a CONGU handicap if your society one is so spot on.

It's your society, you could make up and entire new system for doing handicaps taking into account the phases of the moon or deductions for how breezey it was in the morning, why do you need the CONGU one?
		
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I care because I care, and am not blinkered like some! - Congu is a quango that will change - ask them when Slope is coming in - it is coming, believe me! - Handicap system will be so much better then


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			I care because I care, and am not blinkered like some! - Congu is a quango that will change - ask them when Slope is coming in - it is coming, believe me! - Handicap system will be so much better then
		
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Are you being a little disingenuous here?

Do you, perhaps, have a vested interest?


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

The poacher said:



			so how do you vet peoples h/caps if all your members havent got one?
 they might be good golfers ,but they havent got a h/cap ,so how do you stop the bandits joining and taking your prizes every time. 
i for one wouldnt trust a society h/cap
		
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Surely a handicap organised by a society to the same rules, standards, and systems is as good as a club handicap where many if not most members probably only play 3 qualifying scores a year anyway ....there re no bandits in our societies - in fact their society handicaps are more often lower and more correct than their "official" club handicap - This is where I emphasise the difference twixt yer actual pub society and a properly run society playing a dozen or so times a year and whose members have a TRUE and Correct handicap of their real ability!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			He (I!) have answered - I do not see why a golf club member is any better than a Golf Society member when it comes to handicaps - the majority of club members have just 5 qualifying scores per year ( facts from GCMA members!) - one society I run has 15 ! - so why do you assume club members have a more exact handicap than equivalent society members.
		
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I'm confused where anyone has said that a club member is better than a society member and what difference does it make how many qualifiers they play. 

Your society has "zero qualfiying" scores because they are not qualifiers


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Are you being a little disingenuous here?

Do you, perhaps, have a vested interest?
		
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Sadly no vested interests! - I just care that unless you are a club member, you cannot have a "official" handicap - It is I would say much more important to have a "correct" handicap that an official handicap that is more likely than not based on just 3 or 4 "qulaifying" rounds a year - this is why I also say that US Slope system is so much better!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm confused where anyone has said that a club member is better than a society member and what difference does it make how many qualifiers they play. 

Your society has "zero qualfiying" scores because they are not qualifiers
		
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The assumption given by you is that unless you are a member of a golf club, you do not have an "official" handicap - a correct handicap is much more important!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Really?

I first had a County Card 40 years ago. They were seen as a courtesy/reciprocal arrangement amongst members of clubs within a county.
		
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Forty years ago - I would check that if I were you!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			The assumption given by you is that unless you are a member of a golf club, you do not have an "official" handicap - a correct handicap is much more important!
		
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It's not an assumption - it's a fact.


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What's a properly organised society as opposed to your average normal run of the mill society ? 

Why does a society need to official HC if not playing in HC qualfiying comps
		
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So why cannot the society competitions not be qualifyers!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			So why cannot the society competitions not be qualifyers!
		
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Because societies play a social game including gimmies and aren't affiliated to any Union or Congu and won't ever be affiliated


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry, I have only been a golf-club member for 44 years so will have to bow to your superior knowledge. And obviously the offices I held and committees served on would be so much less important than your own.

However, I fail to see why the established system would benefit by recognising society handicaps and hosting so called qualifying competitions operated by unregulated societies.

If people want the structure currently offered by golf clubs then the answer is really quite simple. They should join a club.
		
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Things are changing in this world - so do golf clubs and their systems which include the restrictive and over complicated Congu


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I'm confused where anyone has said that a club member is better than a society member and what difference does it make how many qualifiers they play. 

Your society has "zero qualfiying" scores because they are not qualifiers
		
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All my society meets are qualifyers for our own handicaps!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It's not an assumption - it's a fact.
		
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So you are saying that golfers who are members of clubs are better than those that are not - bit blinkered I would suggest!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Because societies play a social game including gimmies and aren't affiliated to any Union or Congu and won't ever be affiliated
		
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Oh please read what I have said - SAME RULES AS CLUBS


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Forty years ago - I would check that if I were you!
		
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Whilst I no longer have the card I can assure you that, upon checking, I was wrong.

The first one I had was in 1978.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Things are changing in this world - so do golf clubs and their systems which include the restrictive and over complicated Congu
		
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So, if the CONGU system is restrictive and over complicated why would you want society golfers to be similarly restricted?


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## delc (Apr 9, 2016)

If people want an official handicap without paying out too much up front, the simple way is to join a golf club based at a municipal or pay and play course. That is how I got my initial handicap.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			All my society meets are qualifyers for our own handicaps!
		
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But there aren't qualifiers


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			So you are saying that golfers who are members of clubs are better than those that are not - bit blinkered I would suggest!
		
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Not said that once


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## Neilds (Apr 9, 2016)

Whilst I do not agree with the OP that golfers who only play Society golf should have an official CONGU handicap ( and I fall into this category), I have to back him up with regard to Society handicaps possibly being 'more correct' than some official handicap.  Some posters are falling into the predictable trend of being overly pedantic with regard to terminology, mostly with the qualifier term.  Posters need to take the time and understand what is actually meant and not pick up on the odd word.  What the OP was meaning is Society handicaps are adjusted (by whatever means) after each round the member plays and not just on a couple of rounds a year (obviously generalising here). Also, Societies play at different courses so there are no vanity handicaps from 'easy' courses or perceived bandits on 'hard' courses that travel well.
Going back to the original question, why doesn't the OP get his Society attached to a club and get a deal for Society members. I am the Secretary of a military Society and we get a discounted membership at a local club which we use for our annual championships. You have to join the Society and get the full benefits of club membership but still pay a reduced green fee - everybody is happy


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## Old Skier (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			All my society meets are qualifyers for our own handicaps!
		
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All my society meets are qualifiers for the purpose of the society and people get reduced and increased based on winning scores, not on any proper calculation based on the course which, in my experience is how most if not all society's operate.

You mentioned that many of your society members are club members so they appear to be ok with the current system.

I take it that your not a club member.


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			All my society meets are qualifiers for the purpose of the society and people get reduced and increased based on winning scores, not on any proper calculation based on the course which, in my experience is how most if not all society's operate.

You mentioned that many of your society members are club members so they appear to be ok with the current system.

I take it that your not a club member.
		
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If you read what I have said, I certainly am a club member, an ex captain, and quite a lot more! - I am trying to help all golfers, not those who aspire to being privileged by being club members! - I have alwsy said that golf should be available to all and everyone - many of those corrosponding on this forum have a very blinkered outlook on life - a bit of "I'm alright Jack!" scenario I feel - why can't these people see that there is an alternative outlook to their own un-moving views!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Neilds said:



			Whilst I do not agree with the OP that golfers who only play Society golf should have an official CONGU handicap ( and I fall into this category), I have to back him up with regard to Society handicaps possibly being 'more correct' than some official handicap.  Some posters are falling into the predictable trend of being overly pedantic with regard to terminology, mostly with the qualifier term.  Posters need to take the time and understand what is actually meant and not pick up on the odd word.  What the OP was meaning is Society handicaps are adjusted (by whatever means) after each round the member plays and not just on a couple of rounds a year (obviously generalising here). Also, Societies play at different courses so there are no vanity handicaps from 'easy' courses or perceived bandits on 'hard' courses that travel well.
Going back to the original question, why doesn't the OP get his Society attached to a club and get a deal for Society members. I am the Secretary of a military Society and we get a discounted membership at a local club which we use for our annual championships. You have to join the Society and get the full benefits of club membership but still pay a reduced green fee - everybody is happy
		
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Quite!


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

delc said:



			If people want an official handicap without paying out too much up front, the simple way is to join a golf club based at a municipal or pay and play course. That is how I got my initial handicap.  

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Fine if you have such a rare beast near you - there isn't one within 50 miles of where I live!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			If you read what I have said, I certainly am a club member, an ex captain, and quite a lot more! - I am trying to help all golfers, not those who aspire to being privileged by being club members! - I have alwsy said that golf should be available to all and everyone - many of those corrosponding on this forum have a very blinkered outlook on life - a bit of "I'm alright Jack!" scenario I feel - why can't these people see that there is an alternative outlook to their own un-moving views!
		
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Sorry but you are continuing to fail to answer why the inability to hold an "official" handicap will deter people from taking up the game.

A society is perfectly at liberty to operate their own handicaps in order to try to ensure an even contest.


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## delc (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Fine if you have such a rare beast near you - there isn't one within 50 miles of where I live!
		
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Which deepest darkest part of the World do you live in?  I have at least four such courses and clubs within 5 miles of where I live.


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## DCB (Apr 9, 2016)

Muni golf still alive and well and living in Scotland  &#9786;

Some municipal courses even have multiple clubs playing over them &#128521;


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 9, 2016)

DCB said:



			Muni golf still alive and well and living in Scotland  &#9786;

Some municipal courses even have multiple clubs playing over them &#128521;
		
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Correct. Downshire here in Bracknell has Downshire GC and Easthampstead GC playing out of it.


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## Old Skier (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			If you read what I have said, I certainly am a club member, an ex captain, and quite a lot more! - I am trying to help all golfers, not those who aspire to being privileged by being club members! - I have alwsy said that golf should be available to all and everyone - many of those corrosponding on this forum have a very blinkered outlook on life - a bit of "I'm alright Jack!" scenario I feel - why can't these people see that there is an alternative outlook to their own un-moving views!
		
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Let's just turn it around a bit.

All these non club members which you seem to be suggesting is the future of golf, with no home clubs but the ability to potter around the country picking and choosing when they play, how do the actual golf courses survive and where is the finances coming from for the day to day costs to enable your society lads continue to play.


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Sorry but you are continuing to fail to answer why the inability to hold an "official" handicap will deter people from taking up the game.

A society is perfectly at liberty to operate their own handicaps in order to try to ensure an even contest.
		
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You really are in a world of your own - bye


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Let's just turn it around a bit.

All these non club members which you seem to be suggesting is the future of golf, with no home clubs but the ability to potter around the country picking and choosing when they play, how do the actual golf courses survive and where is the finances coming from for the day to day costs to enable your society lads continue to play.
		
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Why is so hard to some of you that clubs and societies are the same - they are people trying to enjoy a lovely game - some club members seem to think that they are Gods gift - sadly this forum seems to attract them  - bye


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## LCVreg (Apr 9, 2016)

delc said:



			Which deepest darkest part of the World do you live in?  I have at least four such courses and clubs within 5 miles of where I live.
		
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50 miles from a muni - actually in glorious Dorset which is quite obvious if you take the time to read my location - Bye - I.m out of here - too much bigotry!


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## Hobbit (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Why is so hard to some of you that clubs and societies are the same - they are people trying to enjoy a lovely game - some club members seem to think that they are Gods gift - sadly this forum seems to attract them  - bye
		
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What a coin flipper! Bye to you too.


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## ger147 (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Why is so hard to some of you that clubs and societies are the same - they are people trying to enjoy a lovely game - some club members seem to think that they are Gods gift - sadly this forum seems to attract them  - bye
		
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They are not the same.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			You really are in a world of your own - bye
		
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The only dreamer around here is you.

You haven't answered a single straight question throughout this debate despite being given every opportunity.

You somehow see yourself as the knight in shining armour with your half-baked ideas and yet you cannot be honest with us over your desire to give the members of societies the benefits of golf club membership with none of the responsibilities or costs.

You are I am afraid a sad, sad man with a chip on your shoulder.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 9, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			The only dreamer around here is you.

You haven't answered a single straight question throughout this debate despite being given every opportunity.

You somehow see yourself as the knight in shining armour with your half-baked ideas and yet you cannot be honest with us over your desire to give the members of societies the benefits of golf club membership with none of the responsibilities or costs.

You are I am afraid a sad, sad man with a chip on your shoulder.
		
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Bravo sir. Really can't see how the figures in the strange golfing parallel universe would give any club sufficient revenue to exist. If it was that simple it would have been done a long time ago


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## Duckster (Apr 9, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			I care because I care, and am not blinkered like some! - Congu is a quango that will change - ask them when Slope is coming in - it is coming, believe me! - Handicap system will be so much better then
		
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But why?  Why do you care? If you don't like CONGU then who really gives a damn.  You've got a society and your society handicap rocks!

It's not as if you need to use a CONGU handicap to go into club Opens that you are not helping to support by being a society member.

But you don't need that.  You play Wentworth and other high profile courses with your society, using your society handicap.  So that's that bit sorted.....

Come on fella.  Grow up.  Smell the bacon.


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## Bazzatron (Apr 10, 2016)

I can't believe I just read all of that


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Bazzatron said:



			I can't believe I just read all of that
		
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Nope I agree! - Reading all the other items on the various Forums, one has the same detritus of names that give their sometimes, warped opinions, which in many situations are factually incorrect. I offered up simple ideas, they might not be in everyones interest, but they are ideas, and to read some of the blinkered views then it is no wonder that Golf Club membership is falling, courses are closing, and thousands are leaving the game - many who have commented on this post are blinkered and are typical of the cause of the decline of the sport - I shall not bother here any more - I shall get back and continue what I do, which incidently in golf is a lot more than many of the commentators realise!


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bravo sir. Really can't see how the figures in the strange golfing parallel universe would give any club sufficient revenue to exist. If it was that simple it would have been done a long time ago
		
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Have you ever played outside the UK? - Go and play in USA, then you will see how it can be done properly and fairly!


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## SammmeBee (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			....then it is no wonder that Golf Club membership is falling, courses are closing, and thousands are leaving the game....
		
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Lots of clubs doing well at the moment, only the badly managed ones (probably by people like you) are the ones closing, which actually benefits all the clubs nearby.

The number of golfers has been fairly static in the UK for many years - 1000s are not leaving the game.....


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## Hobbit (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Nope I agree! - Reading all the other items on the various Forums, one has the same detritus of names that give their sometimes, warped opinions, which in many situations are factually incorrect. I offered up simple ideas, they might not be in everyones interest, but they are ideas, and to read some of the blinkered views then it is no wonder that Golf Club membership is falling, courses are closing, and thousands are leaving the game - many who have commented on this post are blinkered and are typical of the cause of the decline of the sport - I shall not bother here any more - I shall get back and continue what I do, which incidently in golf is a lot more than many of the commentators realise!
		
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You've made a number of suggestions and shared a number of ideas. Several people have asked questions and most have disagreed. That's life. If your ideas had traction with people who also want the game to grow they would have been accepted.

Have you thought that maybe your ideas haven't been accepted because they are rubbish ideas? I for one raised a number of points, which you chose to ignore which leads me to feel there's no substance to your proposals.

Now you choose to ride off in a huff, making comments about "detritus " and how you do loads for golf..... Be careful you don't trip over that massive ego.


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## Smiffy (Apr 10, 2016)

So I tip up at your Society, play 3 duff rounds and you hand me a handicap of 18.
My official is 12.
What you going to do?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 10, 2016)

LCV......you have posted some rubbish on this thread but to say you have played 378 courses including the Old course but RND is the best really takes the biscuit!


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## DCB (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Nope I agree! - Reading all the other items on the various Forums, one has the same detritus of names that give their sometimes, warped opinions, which in many situations are factually incorrect. I offered up simple ideas, they might not be in everyones interest, but they are ideas, and to read some of the blinkered views then it is no wonder that Golf Club membership is falling, courses are closing, and thousands are leaving the game - many who have commented on this post are blinkered and are typical of the cause of the decline of the sport - I shall not bother here any more - I shall get back and continue what I do, which incidently in golf is a lot more than many of the commentators realise!
		
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 Bye. Don't let the door hit you on the backside on the way out


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## Simbo (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Why is so hard to some of you that clubs and societies are the same - they are people trying to enjoy a lovely game - some club members seem to think that they are Gods gift - sadly this forum seems to attract them  - bye
		
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How are they the same?? 


you really can't see past the end of your own nose, 99% of the forum disagree with you, yet you continue to wallow in your own crap and shout from the rooftops about how you are right. Yet can't answer a straight question or give any subsidence in your argument. 
Then take the huff puff when everyone doesn't jump on your bandwagon.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Nope I agree! - Reading all the other items on the various Forums, one has the same detritus of names that give their sometimes, warped opinions, which in many situations are factually incorrect. !
		
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Maybe your theories are warped? You have quoted lots of 'facts' and statistics throughout this thread but when people have asked for links to support them you haven't been able to produce anything.

Golf clubs down here in Dorset appear to be doing pretty well........unless you can provide facts to show otherwise?


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Why is so hard to some of you that clubs and societies are the same - they are people trying to enjoy a lovely game - some club members seem to think that they are Gods gift - sadly this forum seems to attract them  - bye
		
Click to expand...





Im not gods gift, I don't give out gifts.

So are you going to say who's going to pay for the upkeep of the courses when we all just play society golf or just come up with an idea and not the solution.

As your from deepest darkest have you just lost your club to a housing development.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 10, 2016)

The OP has on several occasions in this thread praised the Slope system for equalising effective handicaps.

However, it may just be my aged, feeble mind but I cannot see how that would work with his idea of "official" handicaps for society only golfers.

Does the Slope system not need you to retain a handicap at a home course and each course is then Slope rated?

Thus a 10 handicapper whose home course is at the higher end of the Slope would, in an open competition receive less than his handicap if the host course was more lowly ranked on the Slope and _vice versa_.

How, therefore, can someone be accommodated within that if they do not have a home club?

Or is this a case of a dinosaur not understanding the nuances of the Slope.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 10, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			The OP has on several occasions in this thread praised the Slope system for equalising effective handicaps.

However, it may just be my aged, feeble mind but I cannot see how that would work with his idea of "official" handicaps for society only golfers.

Does the Slope system not need you to retain a handicap at a home course and each course is then Slope rated?

Thus a 10 handicapper whose home course is at the higher end of the Slope would, in an open competition receive less than his handicap if the host course was more lowly ranked on the Slope and _vice versa_.

How, therefore, can someone be accommodated within that if they do not have a home club?

Or is this a case of a dinosaur not understanding the nuances of the Slope.
		
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Or maybe Plonkersaurus has fallen down the slope and cannot get back up


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

drive4show said:



			LCV......you have posted some rubbish on this thread but to say you have played 378 courses including the Old course but RND is the best really takes the biscuit!
		
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Sorry error - Royal County Down is the best ever, Pebble Beach 2nd, St Andrews (Old) 3rd, and RND would be in the top 10 for history alone..........I see you quote Hayling Island club, are you the manager there then!...If so, you should know me!.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Nope I agree! - Reading all the other items on the various Forums, one has the same detritus of names that give their sometimes, warped opinions, which in many situations are factually incorrect. I offered up simple ideas, they might not be in everyones interest, but they are ideas, and to read some of the blinkered views then it is no wonder that *Golf Club membership is falling, courses are closing, and thousands are leaving the game - *many who have commented on this post are blinkered and are typical of the cause of the decline of the sport - I shall not bother here any more - I shall get back and continue what I do, which incidently in golf is a lot more than many of the commentators realise!
		
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Do you have the statistics to back up these sort of statements ?!


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Smiffy said:



			So I tip up at your Society, play 3 duff rounds and you hand me a handicap of 18.
My official is 12.
What you going to do?
		
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So whats different with the same three cards at your club if you were to apply to join again?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

Have we found out yet exactly why you want your society to have official HC when they are only playing in the society ?


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			So whats different with the same three cards at your club if you were to apply to join again?
		
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Because I hope the handicap committee will take his previous handicap into account when assessing his handicap where as I doubt the ability of many society handicappers (not your obviously) to have the ability, desire or knowledge to run handicaps as they should be.


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

drive4show said:



			Maybe your theories are warped? You have quoted lots of 'facts' and statistics throughout this thread but when people have asked for links to support them you haven't been able to produce anything.

Golf clubs down here in Dorset appear to be doing pretty well........unless you can provide facts to show otherwise?
		
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Mid Dorset GC dead, Lyons Gate GC dead, Iford Bridge - went bust and surviving by skin of teeth, Halstock dead, Canford Magna dead, Cheddington Court dead, and in Somerset, Taunton Vale dead, Frome dead.......so !


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Old Skier said:



View attachment 18969


Im not gods gift, I don't give out gifts.

So are you going to say who's going to pay for the upkeep of the courses when we all just play society golf or just come up with an idea and not the solution.

As your from deepest darkest have you just lost your club to a housing development.
		
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No, I probably own the housing develoment! - and by the way, did you ever have a guest house in Instow?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Mid Dorset GC dead, Lyons Gate GC dead, Iford Bridge - went bust and surviving by skin of teeth, Halstock dead, Canford Magna dead, Cheddington Court dead, and in Somerset, Taunton Vale dead, Frome dead.......so !
		
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None are dead "because Societies can't hold official HC " though 

And the number of people who stopped playing golf didn't stop because they couldn't hold an official HC whilst being a member of a society. 

Why exactly do you want your society to have "official Congu HC's "


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			No, I probably own the housing develoment! - and by the way, did you ever have a guest house in Instow?
		
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No, any chance of a answer to my question.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Mid Dorset GC dead, Lyons Gate GC dead, Iford Bridge - went bust and surviving by skin of teeth, Halstock dead, Canford Magna dead, Cheddington Court dead, and in Somerset, Taunton Vale dead, Frome dead.......so !
		
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Broadstone, Parkstone, Ferndown.......all with waiting lists! And Canford was sold to build houses on it not because it was struggling.


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## upsidedown (Apr 10, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Does the Slope system not need you to retain a handicap at a home course and each course is then Slope rated?
		
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Correct you have to be a member and have a home course


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2016)

upsidedown said:



			Correct you have to be a member and have a home course 

Click to expand...

Just like most of us knew apart from the man with his nomad society.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 10, 2016)

Gotta love your trolls


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

drive4show said:



			Broadstone, Parkstone, Ferndown.......all with waiting lists! And Canford was sold to build houses on it not because it was struggling.
		
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Believe that about Canford if you wish! - There will be no houses there but there will be gravel extraction - suggest you ask around a bit more regards the ownership etc - but I assure you, it was not struggling - same owners opened Remedy Oak - strange that - siphoning comes to mind


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			No, any chance of a answer to my question.
		
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Remind me!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Remind me!
		
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Why does your society need their HCs official recognised Congu HCs


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 10, 2016)

thats easy Phil ,its to stop the bandits that play in his society.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Believe that about Canford if you wish! - There will be no houses there but there will be gravel extraction - suggest you ask around a bit more regards the ownership etc - *but I assure you, it was not struggling* - same owners opened Remedy Oak - strange that - siphoning comes to mind
		
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Thank you for reiterating my point and shooting your own argument in the foot  :thup:  I thought you were trying to argue that clubs ARE struggling?


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Remind me!
		
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Whos paying for the day today upkeep of the golf course when everyone joins a society which is what you are suggesting is what's happening.


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

drive4show said:



			Thank you for reiterating my point and shooting your own argument in the foot  :thup:  I thought you were trying to argue that clubs ARE struggling?
		
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Ha - when you have 1000 members in an area with as many chimney pots as the Bournemouth conurbation, then you ain't struggling - if they were they would have closed one of the two full length 18 holes course, well the one that was always underwater anyway! - and I like to hear that you portray all clubs in the same mould, Iford Bridge same as Ferndown eh?


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Whos paying for the day today upkeep of the golf course when everyone joins a society which is what you are suggesting is what's happening.
		
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If you read it properly, you will see I am suggested as "well as clubs" - basically for those who wish not or are unable to become members of clubs! - to be truthfull, what percentage of your club members play more times than the equivalent sum of gfees they would have to play to equate! - truthfully - I doubt if it would be 50% - Societies are a lot better solution than joining a club if you play just 20 times a year - this probably takes in over 80% of those that play golf in the country - I ask you also, what is the average age of your club - I bet its over 60, or certainly 55 - why is this, it is mainly because of cost, and of time, and in some cases the aura of expectancy to the younger ones !


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			If you read it properly, you will see I am suggested as "well as clubs" - basically for those who wish not or are unable to become members of clubs! - to be truthfull, what percentage of your club members play more times than the equivalent sum of gfees they would have to play to equate! - truthfully - I doubt if it would be 50% - Societies are a lot better solution than joining a club if you play just 20 times a year - this probably takes in over 80% of those that play golf in the country - I ask you also, what is the average age of your club - I bet its over 60, or certainly 55 - why is this, it is mainly because of cost, and of time, and in some cases the aura of expectancy to the younger ones !
		
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And what does any of that have to do with the HC system and your society having official Handicaps ? 

Again why do the people who only play the 20 times in your society need to have an official HC ?


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

The poacher said:



			thats easy Phil ,its to stop the bandits that play in his society.

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Thats easy - they might start as bandits but they're not for long!!


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why does your society need their HCs official recognised Congu HCs
		
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Why does your club - what's the difference!


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## t0m (Apr 10, 2016)

Some society players don't hold a official handicap, and that's a problem when it comes to some of the society favourite courses that demand a handicap and proof of it


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Why does your club - what's the difference!
		
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Because my members want to play in official Congu recognised qualifiers as well as opens and Congu recognised qualifiers around the country.

Yours are just society meets affiliated to no one and there is no need for your society to be affiliated to Congu

So why does your society members need to have their society HC official ?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Ha - when you have 1000 members in an area with as many chimney pots as the Bournemouth conurbation, then you ain't struggling - if they were they would have closed one of the two full length 18 holes course, well the one that was always underwater anyway! - and I like to hear that you portray all clubs in the same mould, Iford Bridge same as Ferndown eh?
		
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In one response you say clubs are struggling then later on in the thread you say they aren't. Make your mind up please.

As for Iford, if you build a low quality course then fail to maintain it properly, of course it will struggle.


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			Because I hope the handicap committee will take his previous handicap into account when assessing his handicap where as I doubt the ability of many society handicappers (not your obviously) to have the ability, desire or knowledge to run handicaps as they should be.
		
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So again, whats the difference, you shouldn't look down you nose at what I emphasised right at the start "properly organised Societies" - may I remind you also of one of many clubs who are societies - Bruntsfield Links, and how did Muirfield start. Also, what is the difference twixt a society playing at a regular course than any of the 7 clubs playing over the same course at Carnoustie - I am honestly ashamed of the comment s that have been recieved in this forum and the attitudes therin - why the hell can some of you not just get off their high horses and do something helpful to the sport instead! - All good and well run courses and clubs will survive, whether they are proprietors, members or munis, though the last is sadly on its way out due to the majority of them being left to rot by their council owners


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

drive4show said:



			In one response you say clubs are struggling then later on in the thread you say they aren't. Make your mind up please.

As for Iford, if you build a low quality course then fail to maintain it properly, of course it will struggle.
		
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Read it whichever way you wish - and yes, I have just received a deal from Ferndown - half price golf after 3.00pm from now to September for all- have you ever seen that before! - and in itself, doesn't it prove something!?


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			None are dead "because Societies can't hold official HC " though 

And the number of people who stopped playing golf didn't stop because they couldn't hold an official HC whilst being a member of a society. 

Why exactly do you want your society to have "official Congu HC's "
		
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Read all I have said - you might just learn something! instead of just being contrary and arrogant


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Read it whichever way you wish - and yes, I have just received a deal from Ferndown - half price golf after 3.00pm from now to September for all- have you ever seen that before! - and in itself, doesn't it prove something!?
		
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That is the standard twilight deal, I can name you dozens of top clubs that offer that. Not exactly earth shattering news!


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

t0m said:



			Some society players don't hold a official handicap, and that's a problem when it comes to some of the society favourite courses that demand a handicap and proof of it
		
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Cripes, when was the last time anyone asked you for a handicap certificate - anyway, its all on computer now and CDH can be seen and traced by anybody!


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			So what you are really after is the member's benefits without the members costs. Who do you think pays for the day to day running of a golf club? Who puts money over the bar in the depths of winter?

Your business model would see memberships drop further, and more clubs go out of business. Getting regular golf @ Â£45 a go would cost me Â£1800. Why be a society member when I can get all the benefits of a club at Â£600?

Personally, I don't see it as elitism. I see it as protecting the longevity of the golf club.
		
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Didn't help Torphin Hills or the many other Scottish courses that have had to close


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Read all I have said - you might just learn something! instead of just being contrary and arrogant
		
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Again you still haven't answered the question many have asked

Why do you need to have official HCs within your society if your members are just playing society rounds. 

Instead of just insulting posters just tell us why ?


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## Old Skier (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			So again, whats the difference, you shouldn't look down you nose at what I emphasised right at the start "properly organised Societies" - may I remind you also of one of many clubs who are societies - Bruntsfield Links, and how did Muirfield start. Also, what is the difference twixt a society playing at a regular course than any of the 7 clubs playing over the same course at Carnoustie - I am honestly ashamed of the comment s that have been recieved in this forum and the attitudes therin - why the hell can some of you not just get off their high horses and do something helpful to the sport instead! - All good and well run courses and clubs will survive, whether they are proprietors, members or munis, though the last is sadly on its way out due to the majority of them being left to rot by their council owners
		
Click to expand...

I'm neither looking down my nose or any of the other petty names that you call me and others on here. As some one who runs several successful societies I just cannot see how your model will work.

How are they held accountable
Who checks that they are EG & CONGU compliant
Which course (if the slope system as you say is introduced) is the handicap assessed on.

Your model just threw the whole ethos of society golf out of the window. Having just returned from taking a fair size society to La Toquett I know how they would have reacted if I took it all so seriously insisting cards were signed, no gimmes etc. My society days are for fun.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2016)

Clubs have come and gone for decades. Sod all to do with societies. All to do with economics and business


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## TheJezster (Apr 10, 2016)

Why are people still responding? It's just fuelling the thread. If you stop it will go away.


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Old Skier said:



			I'm neither looking down my nose or any of the other petty names that you call me and others on here. As some one who runs several successful societies I just cannot see how your model will work.

How are they held accountable
Who checks that they are EG & CONGU compliant
Which course (if the slope system as you say is introduced) is the handicap assessed on.

Your model just threw the whole ethos of society golf out of the window. Having just returned from taking a fair size society to La Toquett I know how they would have reacted if I took it all so seriously insisting cards were signed, no gimmes etc. My society days are for fun.
		
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The model will work - I guarantee that! As already said a number of times, "properly run societies" eg, those that have a handicap secretary running a club 2000 / handicapmaster / or whatever system, also paying the same relavent dues to the County Unions and England Golf etc - what is wrong with that! - And as you say, I rightly agree with you re you French visit (if you can find your way around the picnickers on the greens!), these are for fun! - But, its all give and take, and it is obvious to me that there are many thousands out there that are either disinterested in wanting to join a club for whatever reason, but still wish to be treated fairly by one and all - opening up the handicapping system to some societies and tours would be one way of letting these do so - why oh why is there such antipathy against that!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			The model will work - I guarantee that! !
		
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Sorry but even risking an infraction that's crap. How can you possible do that and how can you prove it. If it was that simple it would already have been done and we'd be living in a golfing utopia with no need to find thousand per year (for some) for membership and can all rock up and play where and when we want. We don't and can't and it's Jackson Pollocks


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

Do you realise hoe much it will also cost 

For the software 
Yearly license
EGU and County fees
Courses that will then charge you further 

Which course will the official HC be set on and then be deemed the Home course for that HC - what if courses say no to having the HC set there 

Costs are in the thousands for HC software on a yearly basis


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## Simbo (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Didn't help Torphin Hills or the many other Scottish courses that have had to close
		
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Torphin hill was a goat track, one of the worst golf courses iv ever stepped on. With a clubhouse that was like something from the high chaparral. It was always going to struggle when the going got tough, I'd guess the only members there were people who had been brought up through that course. I'd hazard a guess most others that are closing are the same.
And having official handicaps for societies wouldn't have changed it, it would probably have helped it to close quicker.


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## Simbo (Apr 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you realise hoe much it will also cost 

For the software 
Yearly license
EGU and County fees
Courses that will then charge you further 

Which course will the official HC be set on and then be deemed the Home course for that HC - what if courses say no to having the HC set there 

Costs are in the thousands for HC software on a yearly basis
		
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Do golf clubs not kick back a percentage of their incomings to cover these costs??


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## DCB (Apr 10, 2016)

Simbo said:



			Torphin hill was a goat track, one of the worst golf courses iv ever stepped on. With a clubhouse that was like something from the high chaparral. It was always going to struggle when the going got tough, I'd guess the only members there were people who had been brought up through that course. I'd hazard a guess most others that are closing are the same.
And having official handicaps for societies wouldn't have changed it, it would probably have helped it to close quicker.
		
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But where else could you play a medal in June and experience sleet and snow ?


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you realise hoe much it will also cost 

For the software 
Yearly license
EGU and County fees
Courses that will then charge you further 

Which course will the official HC be set on and then be deemed the Home course for that HC - what if courses say no to having the HC set there 

Costs are in the thousands for HC software on a yearly basis
		
Click to expand...

Yep - already run it! - yep already pay them, courses sorted, and costs most definately in the thousands!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Yep - already run it! - yep already pay them, courses sorted, and costs most definately in the thousands!
		
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Where are all the facts and figures to back up these fairy tales? Why don't you think this hasn't been done before? Someone will have thought of it. Simple answer. It's pie in the sky and clubs in their hundreds would disappear without guranteed and budgeted income


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Yep - already run it! - yep already pay them, courses sorted, and costs most definately in the thousands!
		
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Sorry your society already run HC software and pay EGU etc fees or are you talking the club here ?

And which course will the HC be based at ?


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## Imurg (Apr 10, 2016)

Would County fees be payable in each County you play in..?


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 10, 2016)

How many people in your society, how often do you play and how much is the average cost per game ( without food)


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Yep - already run it! - yep already pay them, courses sorted, and costs most definately in the thousands!
		
Click to expand...

This thread is becoming more far fetched by the minute. A society that pays thousands for handicapping software......do you think we button up the back?!?!?


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## t0m (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Cripes, when was the last time anyone asked you for a handicap certificate - anyway, its all on computer now and CDH can be seen and traced by anybody!
		
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To be honest I don't have a official hc so as soon. As I see that statement on a website I don't risk it. As a round can be upwards of Â£40 and travel to be turned away


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 10, 2016)

drive4show said:



			This thread is becoming more far fetched by the minute. A society that pays thousands for handicapping software......do you think we button up the back?!?!?
		
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Not only that but a course prepared to be a "Home Club" all at no extra charge. The man's a genius (or a dreamer!).


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Not only that but a course prepared to be a "Home Club" all at no extra charge. The man's a genius (or a dreamer!).
		
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Certainly a legend in his own mind


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## DCB (Apr 10, 2016)

What happened to The Wessex Amateur  Golf Tour this year ?


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## Hobbit (Apr 10, 2016)

drive4show said:



			This thread is becoming more far fetched by the minute. A society that pays thousands for handicapping software......do you think we button up the back?!?!?
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking earlier today that Walter Mitty had joined the forum.

Aren't we due another huff and "I'm out of here, bye." More repeats than The Sound of Music.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I was thinking earlier today that Walter Mitty had joined the forum.

Aren't we due another huff and "I'm out of here, bye." More repeats than The Sound of Music.
		
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Some facts to back up the new golfing world would be nice


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## DCB (Apr 10, 2016)

Someone once said  

 " the Societies I play with are all genuine club members with real handicaps, "


So, why have we had all this guff over the past couple of days ?


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Simbo said:



			Torphin hill was a goat track, one of the worst golf courses iv ever stepped on. With a clubhouse that was like something from the high chaparral. It was always going to struggle when the going got tough, I'd guess the only members there were people who had been brought up through that course. I'd hazard a guess most others that are closing are the same.
And having official handicaps for societies wouldn't have changed it, it would probably have helped it to close quicker.
		
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Shows had attitudes have changed. Lothianburn and Torphin, both very old courses and of traditional Scottish thoughts, now gone forever. Hilly, natural and basic, something I love, but it appears not the modern player who now also have the modern easy walking parkland courses nearby, courses that will never send the pulse racing!


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## LCVreg (Apr 10, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			I was thinking earlier today that Walter Mitty had joined the forum.

Aren't we due another huff and "I'm out of here, bye." More repeats than The Sound of Music.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like an apt name!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Shows had attitudes have changed. Lothianburn and Torphin, both very old courses and of traditional Scottish thoughts, now gone forever. Hilly, natural and basic, something I love, but it appears not the modern player who now also have the modern easy walking parkland courses nearby, courses that will never send the pulse racing!
		
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Instead of listing courses that have gone, why not come out and answer the questions many have asked?


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## Hobbit (Apr 10, 2016)

I've just read the first five pages of this thread, and there's a recurring theme. The OP is looking for support. The majority of posters have asked for qualifying evidence before willing to commit to that. On not receiving answers to the questions that might engender that support they have, understandably expressed scepticism.

When are we going to see links posted up that support the argument? if the number of unanswered questions and points is anything to go by.... The OP has a vision but nothing he's willing to share to support it.

All we get is an accusation of support or be a Luddite. Sorry but blind faith I'm not willing to give.


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## DCB (Apr 10, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Shows had attitudes have changed. Lothianburn and Torphin, both very old courses and of traditional Scottish thoughts, now gone forever. Hilly, natural and basic, something I love, but it appears not the modern player who now also have the modern easy walking parkland courses nearby, courses that will never send the pulse racing!
		
Click to expand...

Torphin had been under threat since their landowner first put the course up for sale as arable land in the mid 1980s. I got out at that time. There's  more to the Lothianburn story than first meets the eye. So neither is a good example of the failing golf situation in Scotland.


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## rosecott (Apr 10, 2016)

I have deliberately held back from posting on this thread as I could not believe that the OP could continue to spout such an incredible amount of drivel over the number of days that he has lasted. He clearly has not the faintest of clues about how golf courses â€“ and therefore golf clubs â€“ are financed. His ridiculous assertions have belied belief and his belief in his own vast experience and knowledge is laughable. I can only believe that the mods have allowed this nonsense to continue on the basis that there must be enough rope to hang himself.


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 10, 2016)

rosecott said:



I have deliberately held back from posting on this thread as I could not believe that the OP could continue to spout such an incredible amount of drivel over the number of days that he has lasted. He clearly has not the faintest of clues about how golf courses â€“ and therefore golf clubs â€“ are financed. His ridiculous assertions have belied belief and his belief in his own vast experience and knowledge is laughable. I can only believe that the mods have allowed this nonsense to continue on the basis that there must be enough rope to hang himself.

Click to expand...


Mods not involved as making a complete ass of yourself isn't against the rules.


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## Simbo (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Shows had attitudes have changed. Lothianburn and Torphin, both very old courses and of traditional Scottish thoughts, now gone forever. Hilly, natural and basic, something I love, but it appears not the modern player who now also have the modern easy walking parkland courses nearby, courses that will never send the pulse racing!
		
Click to expand...

It did send my pulse racing, Edmund Hillary never hiked as much.

Anyway stop swerving the questions and give us some straight answers and facts and figures to back up your guff and stop peeing on our shoes and telling us it's raining.


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## rosecott (Apr 11, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Mods not involved as making a complete ass of yourself isn't against the rules.

Click to expand...

Surely there needs to be a rule against boring the pants off forummers by incessant repetition and inability to answer questions.


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Instead of listing courses that have gone, why not come out and answer the questions many have asked?
		
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Well a little lost as I thought questions had been answered. If you want to read the facts then look thrtough GCMA magazines for the past two years, also NCG - they both have reduction in numbers playing reports - there, does that answer your questions - denial doesn't get any of you anywhere!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Well a little lost as I thought questions had been answered. If you want to read the facts then look thrtough GCMA magazines for the past two years, also NCG - they both have reduction in numbers playing reports - there, does that answer your questions - denial doesn't get any of you anywhere!
		
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So these publications will tell us :-

1 Why your society members need CONGU recognised handicaps?
2 How society golf is going to be the game's saviour?
3 How those clubs that remain are going to be able to subsidise societies?
4 How, when it is introduced, the Slope Rating would apply to those without a Home Club?
5 Who is going to meet the costs of societies operating a formal, recognised handicap system?

Those are just five questions you have, so far, avoided answering and I haven't mentioned the Wessex Golf Tour.


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## Hobbit (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Well a little lost as I thought questions had been answered. If you want to read the facts then look thrtough GCMA magazines for the past two years, also NCG - they both have reduction in numbers playing reports - there, does that answer your questions - denial doesn't get any of you anywhere!
		
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From my own posts, there were a number of points and questions that went unanswered, as there have been from a number of posters. You pick the odd point out of a post, not the full posts, and often give glib answers. What answers you give are often vague, and without substance.

As to your "go and look," you are the one using these sources to support the argument. And until *YOU* provide the links they are unsubstantiated.

Well, I've been through the last two years GCMA - great article on the stabilisation in participation rates in golf, including and increase in those playing in the 16 - 25 age group.

Have you got any other out of date data you'd like to share with us...


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## ger147 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Well a little lost as I thought questions had been answered. If you want to read the facts then look thrtough GCMA magazines for the past two years, also NCG - they both have reduction in numbers playing reports - there, does that answer your questions - denial doesn't get any of you anywhere!
		
Click to expand...

You never told us what happened to your amateur tour? Folded due to lack of numbers by any chance?


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## bluewolf (Apr 11, 2016)

rosecott said:



			Surely there needs to be a rule against boring the pants off forummers by incessant repetition and inability to answer questions.
		
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That might get rid of a few posters to be honest.


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## Hobbit (Apr 11, 2016)

bluewolf said:



			That might get rid of a few posters to be honest. 

Click to expand...

"I'm Spartacus!"


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 11, 2016)

rosecott said:



			Surely there needs to be a rule against boring the pants off forummers by incessant repetition and inability to answer questions.
		
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bluewolf said:



			That might get rid of a few posters to be honest. 

Click to expand...




Hobbit said:



			"I'm Spartacus!"
		
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As long as folk continue to reply to the OP, then the thread will plod onward, 
So stop answering and all will be well 

Now I've gone and put it at the top of the list again.......dagnabbit


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			So these publications will tell us :-

1 Why your society members need CONGU recognised handicaps?
2 How society golf is going to be the game's saviour?
3 How those clubs that remain are going to be able to subsidise societies?
4 How, when it is introduced, the Slope Rating would apply to those without a Home Club?
5 Who is going to meet the costs of societies operating a formal, recognised handicap system?

Those are just five questions you have, so far, avoided answering and I haven't mentioned the Wessex Golf Tour.
		
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Oh for Gods sake 
1) I did not say that my society members need Congu handicaps - I said that why couldn't properly run societies have the same handicap system as clubs if all the same rules/fees/ etc were in place
2) I never said it would be the sports saviours - I said it would help!
3) That is up to them - they always used to
4) If 1) was implemented, properly run societies would be the "home Club" of those that were not eslewhere
5) The society and their members - exactly as a club would

And what would you have to say about the Wessex Amateur Golf Tour then!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			1) I did not say that my society members need Congu handicaps
		
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Absolutely priceless! So why have you been arguing for 3 days about why they can't have them?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 11, 2016)

So that's it settled then.

Your, and every other society, can operate its own handicap system along the lines of CONGU at your own expense.

No need to change anything, no need to have a Home Club for Slope Rating as the handicap is only needed for the society's purposes and will not be applied anywhere else, such as Opens etc;

Might be a bit difficult to persuade Club members to subsidise society members green-fees but good luck in trying.

Oh! and good luck in convincing society members (many of whom, by your own admission, will already be paying Club subscriptions) to meet the costs of a full-time organiser and purchase of software.

For a self proclaimed authority and expert you do seem to be rather guilty of not thinking this through before troubling the forum with half-baked ideas.


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## rosecott (Apr 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			For a self proclaimed authority and expert you do seem to be rather guilty of not thinking this through before *troubling the forum with half-baked ideas*.
		
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Come on. The forum has a proud tradition of coming up with half-baked ideas. Naming no names but we would have lost lots of threads without such ideas.


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			So that's it settled then.

Your, and every other society, can operate its own handicap system along the lines of CONGU at your own expense.

No need to change anything, no need to have a Home Club for Slope Rating as the handicap is only needed for the society's purposes and will not be applied anywhere else, such as Opens etc;

Might be a bit difficult to persuade Club members to subsidise society members green-fees but good luck in trying.

Oh! and good luck in convincing society members (many of whom, by your own admission, will already be paying Club subscriptions) to meet the costs of a full-time organiser and purchase of software.

For a self proclaimed authority and expert you do seem to be rather guilty of not thinking this through before troubling the forum with half-baked ideas.
		
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1) Yep - if a "properly organised society" wishes to do the scheme it would be at their expense - where did anyone say "*every* other society"?
2) Slope - I suggest you read and understand the US system before berating what I have said - I have - have you - and I have played it in American Golf tours - have you - suggest looking at the two US Amateur tours - Golf Channel is one
3) Who is asking anyone to subsidise anything?
4) It is easy - have you played in EAGT (ex Volvo!)
5) I am no authority, but I have views which are not blinkered, or one sided or living in the past that obviously you have -  Half baked only for someone who it seems by all accounts spends all his times just being contrary on whatever forum he wants to waste his time on every day.


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			1) Yep - if a "properly organised society" wishes to do the scheme it would be at their expense - where did anyone say "*every* other society"?
2) Slope - I suggest you read and understand the US system before berating what I have said - I have - have you - and I have played it in American Golf tours - have you - suggest looking at the two US Amateur tours - Golf Channel is one
3) Who is asking anyone to subsidise anything?
4) It is easy - have you played in EAGT (ex Volvo!)
5) I am no authority, but I have views which are not blinkered, or one sided or living in the past that obviously you have -  Half baked only for someone who it seems by all accounts spends all his times just being contrary on whatever forum he wants to waste his time on every day.
		
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Poppycock, delusional and unsustainable on all levels


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

Do you confirm yet that your society right now has the HC software and are paying the yearly license ?

At the start you mentioned cost being an issue because your society members couldn't afford the yearly subs 

But then you went on a mentioned the courses you play on and most of them at the higher price range - ? So they can afford these high price society meets but not club membership ? 

Also the EAGT does have good events and they are qualifiers ( so need an official HC ) but they are also at the higher price end of the scale


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## pokerjoke (Apr 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you confirm yet that your society right now has the HC software and are paying the yearly license ?

At the start you mentioned cost being an issue because your society members couldn't afford the yearly subs 

But then you went on a mentioned the courses you play on and most of them at the higher price range - ? So they can afford these high price society meets but not club membership ? 

Also the EAGT does have good events and they are qualifiers ( so need an official HC ) but they are also at the higher price end of the scale
		
Click to expand...

Yet another interrogation by the LP layers society.
Is this the same as you saying your priced out Liverpool games but continue to play golf courses that cost considerably more?


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			From my own posts, there were a number of points and questions that went unanswered, as there have been from a number of posters. You pick the odd point out of a post, not the full posts, and often give glib answers. What answers you give are often vague, and without substance.

As to your "go and look," you are the one using these sources to support the argument. And until *YOU* provide the links they are unsubstantiated.

Well, I've been through the last two years GCMA - great article on the stabilisation in participation rates in golf, including and increase in those playing in the 16 - 25 age group.

Have you got any other out of date data you'd like to share with us...
		
Click to expand...

Oh blimey, here we go!
www.golfclubmanagement.net/2013/03/50-clubs-could-close-this-spring/
www.uksga.co.uk/news.php?newsitem=958
www.dailyrecord.co.uk â€º Sport â€º Golf
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11345841
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/killarney-golf-club-rapidly-losing-members-360007.html
www.forbes.com/sites/.../how-a-declining-middle-class-is-killing-golf/
www.telegraph.co.uk â€º Sport â€º Golf
www.newshub.co.nz/.../golf-clubs-face-dwindling-memberships-201301
www.golfclubmanagement.net/.../participation-slumps-again-as-more-go...
www.gcmanorthwest.co.uk/news.php?newsitem=936
https://www.sundaypost.com/news/scottish-news/golf-clubs-in-crisis-as-membership-numbers-plummet/
www.golfclubmanagement.net/2015/01/three-golf-clubs-close/

Thats just a few - i cannot be asked for this sort of stuff as you are obvious blinkered and living an a land of dreams


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Yet another interrogation by the LP layers society.
Is this the same as you saying your priced out Liverpool games but continue to play golf courses that cost considerably more?
		
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Have you even bothered to read the whole thread before posting cheap digs ?


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you confirm yet that your society right now has the HC software and are paying the yearly license ?

At the start you mentioned cost being an issue because your society members couldn't afford the yearly subs 

But then you went on a mentioned the courses you play on and most of them at the higher price range - ? So they can afford these high price society meets but not club membership ? 

Also the EAGT does have good events and they are qualifiers ( so need an official HC ) but they are also at the higher price end of the scale
		
Click to expand...

1) Yes
2) oh no I didn't - have a look!
3) There are many in the under Â£20 bracket - To me there is no such thing as a bad golf course - there are many that one might not wish to return to for some reason, but as long as it is alive and providing fun for some, then that is all that is required
4) blimey, an agreement!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			1) Yes
2) oh no I didn't - have a look!
3) There are many in the under Â£20 bracket - To me there is no such thing as a bad golf course - there are many that one might not wish to return to for some reason, but as long as it is alive and providing fun for some, then that is all that is required
4) blimey, an agreement!
		
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Is your HC stand alone then and no links to EGU for CDH etc


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

DCB said:



			Torphin had been under threat since their landowner first put the course up for sale as arable land in the mid 1980s. I got out at that time. There's  more to the Lothianburn story than first meets the eye. So neither is a good example of the failing golf situation in Scotland.
		
Click to expand...

Every course has its story!


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Poppycock, delusional and unsustainable on all levels
		
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51,961 replies eh - have you ever been wrong? - sounds like you oughta get a life a bit more instead of calling names as you have done here and on many other forums I have noted


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is your HC stand alone then and no links to EGU for CDH etc
		
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Yep - not this year! - that is why the statement was made in the first place!


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Yep - not this year! - that is why the statement was made in the first place!
		
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Not this year ?

Have you asked EGU and Congu to allow you to be recognise as a Club ?

How will you get around the lack of home course issue ?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			1) Yep - if a "properly organised society" wishes to do the scheme it would be at their expense - where did anyone say "*every* other society"?
2) Slope - I suggest you read and understand the US system before berating what I have said - I have - have you - and I have played it in American Golf tours - have you - suggest looking at the two US Amateur tours - Golf Channel is one
3) Who is asking anyone to subsidise anything?
4) It is easy - have you played in EAGT (ex Volvo!)
5) I am no authority, but I have views which are not blinkered, or one sided or living in the past that obviously you have -  Half baked only for someone who it seems by all accounts spends all his times just being contrary on whatever forum he wants to waste his time on every day.
		
Click to expand...

All I ask is you show some consistency in your arguments having previously complained about the green-fees some clubs charge so want them reduced (subsidised) to suit you 

As for unblinkered views you could not be more wrong. You have an idea which you have convinced yourself is right and, therefore, everyone with an alternative view is wrong. 

Oh, by the way I have studied the Slope Rating system and, like many others, fail to see how it would operate without a Home Club.

As for the EAGT as has been said the fees are steep and that is with the benefit of sponsorship so hardly representative of the lower cost alternative to Club membership you have previously claimed will benefit the future of the game.

As for personal attacks and insults in which you seem to delight they say rather more about you than they ever will about me.


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

Imurg said:



			Would County fees be payable in each County you play in..?
		
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Does your *club* pay county fees for each of other counties clubs you play in leagues etc


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			All I ask is you show some consistency in your arguments having previously complained about the green-fees some clubs charge so want them reduced (subsidised) to suit you 

As for unblinkered views you could not be more wrong. You have an idea which you have convinced yourself is right and, therefore, everyone with an alternative view is wrong. 

Oh, by the way I have studied the Slope Rating system and, like many others, fail to see how it would operate without a Home Club.

As for the EAGT as has been said the fees are steep and that is with the benefit of sponsorship so hardly representative of the lower cost alternative to Club membership you have previously claimed will benefit the future of the game.

As for personal attacks and insults in which you seem to delight they say rather more about you than they ever will about me.
		
Click to expand...

look upon it as you wish !


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## Hobbit (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Oh blimey, here we go!
www.golfclubmanagement.net/2013/03/50-clubs-could-close-this-spring/
www.uksga.co.uk/news.php?newsitem=958
www.dailyrecord.co.uk â€º Sport â€º Golf
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11345841
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/killarney-golf-club-rapidly-losing-members-360007.html
www.forbes.com/sites/.../how-a-declining-middle-class-is-killing-golf/
www.telegraph.co.uk â€º Sport â€º Golf
www.newshub.co.nz/.../golf-clubs-face-dwindling-memberships-201301
www.golfclubmanagement.net/.../participation-slumps-again-as-more-go...
www.gcmanorthwest.co.uk/news.php?newsitem=936
https://www.sundaypost.com/news/scottish-news/golf-clubs-in-crisis-as-membership-numbers-plummet/
www.golfclubmanagement.net/2015/01/three-golf-clubs-close/

Thats just a few - i cannot be asked for this sort of stuff as you are obvious blinkered and living an a land of dreams
		
Click to expand...


Wow! You've actually done something people have been asking for for over 200 posts.

You do realise that some of the links go to pages that are 4 years old, and some to pages that no longer exist, and some don't go to articles at all. Like I said in the last sentence in my post you quoted, how about some up to date data!!!!!

As for the GCMA article, it totally contradicts the Feb 16 article that says that the participation rate is going up, especially in the younger age bracket.

Blinkered and dreaming? You should try a mirror., but best put some sunglasses on.... the shock could do you some harm.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Does your *club* pay county fees for each of other counties clubs you play in leagues etc
		
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This is a rather infantile post, you know full well that isn't how the system works. Do you pay annual road tax to every country you drive your car in on holiday?


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Does your *club* pay county fees for each of other counties clubs you play in leagues etc
		
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Most clubs I know off only play in "Official County Leagues" with teams all from one county ?

There maybe clubs that play in social games against other clubs ( as we do ) from another county


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

drive4show said:



			That is the standard twilight deal, I can name you dozens of top clubs that offer that. Not exactly earth shattering news!
		
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Never before at Ferndown as far as I know - standard twilight deal, over to you, please name them!


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Most clubs I know off only play in "Official County Leagues" with teams all from one county ?

There maybe clubs that play in social games against other clubs ( as we do ) from another county
		
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I will not be nasty, but that is as maybe around you, but is certainly not universal ! - so, does that nullify your statement?


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

Which is why I usually do not go on these self centered sites, but this one was a such a tempter for abuse and it has brought out all the usual "politicians"


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			I will not be nasty, but that is as maybe around you, but is certainly not universal ! - so, does that nullify your statement?
		
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Regardless 

Each club pays the fees for the county they affiliated with 

As a society which county will you be affiliated too if you play on courses in various courses ? Again it shows the problems faced with a lack of a home club


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Which is why I usually do not go on these self centered sites, but this one was a such a tempter for abuse and it has brought out all the usual "politicians"
		
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And, in your own case, "pompous oafs".


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Never before at Ferndown as far as I know - standard twilight deal, over to you, please name them!
		
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http://www.westhillgc.co.uk/green_fees

http://www.wokinggolfclub.co.uk/visitors/

http://www.sauntongolf.co.uk/green_fees_and_information

http://www.liphookgolfclub.com/green_fees

Took me all of 5 minutes to find these offers, all top 100 courses


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

PhilTheFragger said:



			How many people in your society, how often do you play and how much is the average cost per game ( without food)
		
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50 - every three weeks - @Â£25 - Â£45 - all figures noted earlier - the relevence? - It means we have at least 15 "qualifiers" per year - and none with 6 entries in a mid week medal as happens a lot!


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## Hobbit (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			I will not be nasty, but that is as maybe around you, but is certainly not universal ! - so, does that nullify your statement?
		
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LCVreg said:



			Which is why I usually do not go on these self centered sites, but this one was a such a tempter for abuse and it has brought out all the usual "politicians"
		
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Who called who dinosaurs? Who called who blinkered and dreaming? People asked time and again for proof. People who have many years of golf club management have questioned your business model, and asked you to substantiate your claims.

You're the one that started the insults when questioned. You really are a very sad, small minded selfish individual.


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## Liverpoolphil (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			50 - every three weeks - @Â£25 - Â£45 - all figures noted earlier - the relevence? - It means we have at least 15 "qualifiers" per year - and none with 6 entries in a mid week medal as happens a lot!
		
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How do you pay for the HC software and rounds on some of the courses you mention for the price you charge ?


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

drive4show said:



			This thread is becoming more far fetched by the minute. A society that pays thousands for handicapping software......do you think we button up the back?!?!?
		
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Yep, its amazing isn't it - belittle if you like, that it seems is the average from those in this forum


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

MetalMickie said:



			Not only that but a course prepared to be a "Home Club" all at no extra charge. The man's a genius (or a dreamer!).
		
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So all those courses up and down the country that have multiple "clubs" play over them!


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			51,961 replies eh - have you ever been wrong? - sounds like you oughta get a life a bit more instead of calling names as you have done here and on many other forums I have noted
		
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Many other forums? Think not. I only inhabit this one


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## Imurg (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Does your *club* pay county fees for each of other counties clubs you play in leagues etc
		
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It was a genuine question
If you can't be bothered to answer then maybe you should just simply not bother at all...
At first I could see a part of your side of the argument but as you've thrown my question back at me I've come to the conclusion that you are a master of the art known commonly as Conversational Gonads.
Goodnight....


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## Hobbit (Apr 11, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Many other forums? Think not. I only inhabit this one
		
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Nice reposte Homer.

So he's a proven liar too.


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## Bunkermagnet (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			Which is why I usually do not go on these self centered sites, but this one was a such a tempter for abuse and it has brought out all the usual "politicians"
		
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The perfect example of a troll.
Whilst it may be fulfilling his desire for attention, isn't it about time we ignored him and let it go find another bridge to hide under?


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## LCVreg (Apr 11, 2016)

rosecott said:



I have deliberately held back from posting on this thread as I could not believe that the OP could continue to spout such an incredible amount of drivel over the number of days that he has lasted. He clearly has not the faintest of clues about how golf courses â€“ and therefore golf clubs â€“ are financed. His ridiculous assertions have belied belief and his belief in his own vast experience and knowledge is laughable. I can only believe that the mods have allowed this nonsense to continue on the basis that there must be enough rope to hang himself.

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Well said sir - just shows how many self centered people there are on this site - feed a bait and there will always be fish! - most have to be thrown back!


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			50 - every three weeks - @Â£25 - Â£45 - all figures noted earlier - the relevence? - It means we have at least 15 "qualifiers" per year - and none with 6 entries in a mid week medal as happens a lot!
		
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I'd love to be able to play Wentworth for Â£45 and the other top courses you mentioned, just confirms that you have no idea 

Think this thread might have run its course.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Apr 11, 2016)

LCVreg said:



			So all those courses up and down the country that have multiple "clubs" play over them!
		
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Clubs that play over these courses, North Berwick, St Andrews, Carnoustie etc; are required to contribute towards the costs of maintaining those courses and those costs are then shared by the members of those clubs.

Society members asked to meet similar costs, in addition to those of maintaining handicap systems, may just as well be members of a club.


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