# FA Cup Final



## anotherdouble (May 17, 2014)

Fair play to Arsenal they are giving Hull a major scare.


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## drawboy (May 17, 2014)

Good old Arsenal. The cocneys have done the umbersiders. They are that bad we divorced the cod eds from Yorkshire. Get in Arsenal.


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## Piece (May 17, 2014)

Wasn't it on? Well done Atletico!


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## HomerJSimpson (May 17, 2014)

As a neutral one of the better cup finals in recent years


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## Blue in Munich (May 17, 2014)

Youth cup final was much better. 

Congratulations Atletico, now make it a double please.


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			Youth cup final was much better. 

Congratulations Atletico, now make it a double please.
		
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Rumours of costa being injured though. Could make it tough.


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## guest100718 (May 17, 2014)

I had an eye on La liga and the FA cup. Well done Los Rijoblancos!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

You can tell by twitter that Arsenal won - they are the greatest team in the world again now and Wenger is god again.


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## Foxholer (May 17, 2014)

That's one right up Maureen's nose, which, only slightly perversely, makes me feel rather good!

And when was Liverpool's last silverware? Actually, I'd rather forget that result, if not the match!


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can tell by twitter that Arsenal won - they are the greatest team in the world again now and Wenger is god again.
		
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Thats all fans though really. I'm sure twitter would have been awash with hull supporters doing the same. Obviously in vastly smaller numbers as arsenal are one of the highest supported clubs on twitter. 

Do find it interesting how Wenger has fluttered from useless to great and back again since opening day though. 

Fickle bunch is fans.


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can tell by twitter that Arsenal won - they are the greatest team in the world again now and Wenger is god again.
		
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Just like to point out that Arsene has always been a god in my eyes I have not waivered in my belief.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			That's one right up Maureen's nose, which, only slightly perversely, makes me feel rather good!

*And when was Liverpool's last silverware*? Actually, I'd rather forget that result, if not the match!
		
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What does Liverpool have to do with anything ?


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## sawtooth (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You can tell by twitter that Arsenal won - they are the greatest team in the world again now and Wenger is god again.
		
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Never have and never will say a bad word about Wenger. We are lucky to have him and I dread the day he moves on.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Never have and never will say a bad word about Wenger. We are lucky to have him and I dread the day he moves on.
		
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I think you need him to move on for the club to make steps forward. Its fine to have a manager who is constantly winning trophies and is moving the club forward but dont see that with Arsenal.


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Never have and never will say a bad word about Wenger. We are lucky to have him and I dread the day he moves on.
		
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Absolutely agree I hope he stays till he is 80


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Never have and never will say a bad word about Wenger. We are lucky to have him and I dread the day he moves on.
		
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I fully agree, all those that mock him for cherishing fourth seem to forget that until the sugar daddies showed up they were top dogs. Unfortunately with the stadium rebuild and his footballing morales (wanting to break even) they've fallen behind. That said, if Ffp restricts teams in the next few years you could prosper. 

Ramsey was was a massive miss mid season too. What a players he's become.


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I fully agree, all those that mock him for cherishing fourth seem to forget that until the sugar daddies showed up they were top dogs. Unfortunately with the stadium rebuild and his footballing morales (wanting to break even) they've fallen behind. That said, if Ffp restricts teams in the next few years you could prosper. 

Ramsey was was a massive miss mid season too. What a players he's become.
		
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He has been head and shoulders the best midfielder in the league this season his stats before Christmas were extraordinary


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## sawtooth (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			and is moving the club forward but dont see that with Arsenal.
		
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Really Phil? Arsenal has come on leaps and bounds under Wenger. OK winning trophies hasn't been a priority in recent years but the club has never been in better financial shape. Every year it turns a very healthy profit and I think more money will be available to spend in the coming years.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Really Phil? Arsenal has come on leaps and bounds under Wenger. OK winning trophies hasn't been a priority in recent years but the club has never been in better financial shape. Every year it turns a very healthy profit and I think more money will be available to spend in the coming years.
		
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Do you really belive in the last ten years ( since they last won the title ) they have moved forward on the pitch - yes off it you turn a nice profit , great for a business but as a football team ?

In those ten years how many real title challenges has Arsenal mustered ?

Do you support the business or the football team ?


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

freddielong said:



			He has been head and shoulders the best midfielder in the league this season his stats before Christmas were extraordinary
		
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If he'd played like it all season then yes. Yaya was the best midfielder IMO mainly as when it counted he was there. Obviusly it was unfortunate, but when Ramsey was needed he was on the physios table. A full season fit next year and he surely will take that crown.


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

Coming out of the financial constraints they have been under since the move the highest points total for six seasons first trophy for  nine definitely moving forward,

lets talk about Liverpools failure to win the league this season despite having the 2 highest scorers in the league, playing 12 games less than any of the other big clubs and leading with four games to go, Gerrard will not be the same player next season knowing he blew his chance at the title.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			If he'd played like it all season then yes. Yaya was the best midfielder IMO mainly as when it counted he was there. Obviusly it was unfortunate, but when Ramsey was needed he was on the physios table. A full season fit next year and he surely will take that crown.
		
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Are you saying that Ramsey will be better than Toure ?

Based on a hot streak of a couple of months ?


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really belive in the last ten years ( since they last won the title ) they have moved forward on the pitch - yes off it you turn a nice profit , great for a business but as a football team ?

In those ten years how many real title challenges has Arsenal mustered ?

Do you support the business or the football team ?
		
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Surely there's got to be a comprise somewhere though Phil. During that time, to keep up her of had to of spent how many more Â£100m. Something they didn't have and that still wouldn't of guaranteed success. I imagine most arsenal supporters would prefer a team where they are, than one that chased if for a few years. Failed and had to sell players to survive. 

Imo whilst it it hasn't been a great period of success, sight the financial constraints he's been under, I wouldn't call finishing in the top four a flfailure. Certainly not compared to a number of clubs that have spent just as much and some considerably more.


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## sawtooth (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you really belive in the last ten years ( since they last won the title ) they have moved forward on the pitch - yes off it you turn a nice profit , great for a business but as a football team ?

In those ten years how many real title challenges has Arsenal mustered ?

Do you support the business or the football team ?
		
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If you take Man U, Chelsea and City out of the picture then we haven't done too bad in the league over the years. In the history of the club the last decade hasn't been the most fruitful in terms of winning pots, but its been a massive success in every other respect.  I think Arsenal can go on and be successful (football-wise) in the next 10 years due to the tremendous work Wenger has done. 

Whoever takes over from Wenger will find a club in far better shape than it was back in 1996.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Coming out of the financial constraints they have been under since the move the highest points total for six seasons first trophy for  nine definitely moving forward,

lets talk about Liverpools failure to win the league this season despite having the 2 highest scorers in the league, playing 12 games less than any of the other big clubs and leading with four games to go, Gerrard will not be the same player next season knowing he blew his chance at the title.
		
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Liverpool are irrelevant to the subject.

You spent over Â£30 plus million on one player last summer ?! Financial constraints ?! Wenger has spent money. 

So in ten year how many serious title challenges has Wenger mustered ?


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

We spent money but only money we have recouped from selling players our net spend is tiny


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			If you take Man U, Chelsea and City out of the picture then we haven't done too bad in the league over the years. In the history of the club the last decade hasn't been the most fruitful in terms of winning pots, but its been a massive success in every other respect.  I think Arsenal can go on and be successful (football-wise) in the next 10 years due to the tremendous work Wenger has done. 

Whoever takes over from Wenger will find a club in far better shape than it was back in 1996.
		
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Well off course if you take away other clubs it will look rosey !! Take away those clubs and we would have won the title about 3 or 4 times in that period !!

Every year its the same story though - foundations been built for the future - ten years and no serious title challenges from Wengers teams - the same gaps in the squad since his big players retired.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Surely there's got to be a comprise somewhere though Phil. During that time, to keep up her of had to of spent how many more Â£100m. Something they didn't have and that still wouldn't of guaranteed success. I imagine most arsenal supporters would prefer a team where they are, than one that chased if for a few years. Failed and had to sell players to survive. 

Imo whilst it it hasn't been a great period of success, sight the financial constraints he's been under, I wouldn't call finishing in the top four a flfailure. Certainly not compared to a number of clubs that have spent just as much and some considerably more.
		
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When did i say "failure" ?

In ten years Arsenal have had zero serious title challenges. I wouldnt be happy with that.


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## jp5 (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Do find it interesting how Wenger has fluttered from useless to great and back again since opening day though. 

Fickle bunch is fans.
		
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Not really, I think you find most true fans hold a belief that doesn't sway too much by the current form of the team. It's just when the team is struggling the media pick up on the Wenger dissenters and vice versa.

As an Arsenal fan I am happy for Wenger that he has finally got this monkey off his back, you could see the relief in his face.

I'd like to see him bow out on a high with grace as I don't see him being the man to take the team forward. Top of the league in January with only one striker and knowing Walcott would be out for the rest of the season, it was inexcusable not to have strengthened. On top of that, Wenger tactically has fallen behind and the three away thumpings at the title contenders show it.

Of course, a FA Cup & Champions League is a great season, and Wenger will be in charge for as long as he brings in the Champions League money as that is the goal of the club nowadays.


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

Liverpools spend over the Time Wenger has been in charge Dwarfs Arsenals yet they have never ever ever never ever not even once won the premier league


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

freddielong said:



			We spent money but only money we have recouped from selling players our net spend is tiny
		
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And why have those players left - and have they been replaced successfully ? 

Look at the players that have left and the reasons why - lack of success on the field


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Liverpools spend over the Time Wenger has been in charge Dwarfs Arsenals yet they have never ever ever never ever not even once won the premier league
		
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And im not happy about us not winnign the Prem 

But in the last ten years we have mustered two serious challenges to the title and won 3 trophies.

You can keep bringing up Liverpool but it still doesnt take away the lack of success of Wengers teams on the pitch in the last ten years,


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Are you saying that Ramsey will be better than Toure ?

Based on a hot streak of a couple of months ?
		
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im im saying that the form he showed during that period was better than what yaya produced. But yaya produced it for longer. Hence me saying he (yaya) was the better midfielder this season. 
I also said if ramsy does it next year season, all season then his performances would make him the better player.


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well off course if you take away other clubs it will look rosey !! *Take away those clubs and we would have won the title about 3 or 4 times in that perio*d !!

Every year its the same story though - foundations been built for the future - ten years and no serious title challenges from Wengers teams - the same gaps in the squad since his big players retired.
		
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think you'll find you'd still have finished 2nd to arsenal, this season excluded.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			im im saying that the form he showed during that period was better than what yaya produced. But yaya produced it for longer. Hence me saying he (yaya) was the better midfielder this season. 
I also said if ramsy does it next year season, all season then his performances would make him the better player.
		
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Sorry but Ramsey whilst having a little hot spell needs to produce it for more than one season to be called a better player than Yaya Toure !!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			think you'll find you'd still have finished 2nd to arsenal, this season excluded.
		
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believe we would have finished above Arsenal 4 or 5 times in the last ten years but the point is moot the other teams were in the league


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

Arsene is doing a very good job to keep Arsenal in the top 4 with the financial constraints they have had with the overall net spend they have had is extraordinary, he is a genius we are coming out of that cloud now and I 100% we will win more trophies. 

On the other hand Liverpool had everything in place this season the even had no European games to get in the way and they still blew it. Why was Rogers unable to stop that come back by palace ?


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but Ramsey whilst having a little hot spell needs to produce it for more than one season to be called a better player than Yaya Toure !!
		
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The original point was for best midfielder of the season. If Ramsey out performs him next season. Then he would be the better player that year, his past counts for nothing in that score. 

I havent said that ramsey is or would be the better player as far as they're reputations are concerned.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Arsene is doing a very good job to keep Arsenal in the top 4 with the financial constraints they have had with the overall net spend they have had is extraordinary, he is a genius we are coming out of that cloud now and I 100% we will win more trophies. 

On the other hand Liverpool had everything in place this season the even had no European games to get in the way and they still blew it. Why was Rogers unable to stop that come back by palace ?
		
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Again Liverpool are irrelevant to the subject at hand - not sure why you keep mentioning them if only to deflect from the subject

Arsenal in the last 3 season have spent just under Â£150 mil 

Do you really believe winning a KO cup is relevant to the league ? He is a genuis who has won one cup in ten years ?


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## freddielong (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again Liverpool are irrelevant to the subject at hand - not sure why you keep mentioning them if only to deflect from the subject

Arsenal in the last 3 season have spent just under Â£150 mil 

Do you really believe winning a KO cup is relevant to the league ? He is a genuis who has won one cup in ten years ?
		
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Arsenals net spend is less than 30 mil you brought cups up or I assume that is what you meant by Liverpools 3 major trophies given you have never won the premier league

What did she wear ??
 She wore, she wore,
 She wore a yellow ribbon,
 She wore a yellow ribbon,
 In the merry month of May!
 And when, I asked,
 Oh why she wore her ribbon,
 She said itâ€™s for The Arsenal,
 And weâ€™re going to Wembley!
 Wembley,
 Wembley,
 Weâ€™re the famous Arsenal,
 And weâ€™re going to Wembley!


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			believe we would have finished above Arsenal 4 or 5 times in the last ten years but the point is moot the other teams were in the league
		
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Moot it is. For the record, since wenger took over you've finished above them 3 times. All of which arsenal have still gained champions league football. 

Granted im im sure the fans would swap a few years participation for the trophy. But with out he constant fourth place and up, they'd not be where they are today.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Arsenals net spend is less than 30 mil you brought cups up or I assume that is what you meant by Liverpools 3 major trophies given you have never won the premier league

What did she wear ??
 She wore, she wore,
 She wore a yellow ribbon,
 She wore a yellow ribbon,
 In the merry month of May!
 And when, I asked,
 Oh why she wore her ribbon,
 She said itâ€™s for The Arsenal,
 And weâ€™re going to Wembley!
 Wembley,
 Wembley,
 Weâ€™re the famous Arsenal,
 And weâ€™re going to Wembley!
		
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One of those was the CL - how many of them have you won 

Your net spend this season was bigger than ours - yet you finished below us


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again Liverpool are irrelevant to the subject at hand - not sure why you keep mentioning them if only to deflect from the subject

Arsenal in the last 3 season have spent just under Â£150 mil 

Do you really believe winning a KO cup is relevant to the league ? He is a genuis who has won one cup in ten years ?
		
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Any trophy counts. Or was Rafa a failure at Liverpool as he only won cups? Al be it a lot of them. 

In the grant scheme of things, I think there would be more fans upset than happy if he walked or was sacked. Maybe the arsenal fans consider fourth relative success and maybe they don't. But I'd imagine they're are quite a few fans that would settle for arsenals recent failures.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Moot it is. For the record, since wenger took over you've finished above them 3 times. All of which arsenal have still gained champions league football. 

Granted im im sure the fans would swap a few years participation for the trophy. But with out he constant fourth place and up, they'd not be where they are today.
		
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For the record including this season its 4 times 

Again if the ambition of the club is just to gain CL footy every year then Wenger is a genius - i know i would aim a little bit higher when im forking out for the most expensive tickets in Uk football


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Any trophy counts. Or was Rafa a failure at Liverpool as he only won cups? Al be it a lot of them. 

In the grant scheme of things, I think there would be more fans upset than happy if he walked or was sacked. Maybe the arsenal fans consider fourth relative success and maybe they don't. But I'd imagine they're are quite a few fans that would settle for arsenals recent failures.
		
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Again who mentioned failure and who mentioned Rafa ?!


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again who mentioned failure and who mentioned Rafa ?!
		
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Ok a lack of success then, not failure. 
And I mentioned Rafa as, you sarcastically called him genius for winning a cup comp claiming it had no relevance to the league. I'd argue with bug clubs, success breeds more success. 

So was just curious how you viewed Liverpool during rafas reign. A success because of the irrelevant cup wins, or a lack of success due to your failure to win a title?


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## garyinderry (May 17, 2014)

david moyes has proved that 4th place is a lot harder than it looks.  spurs have been knocking on the door for years and havnt managed to dislodge their neighbours. 


the oil men have ruined wenger's last decade. he hasn helped himself at times. the team was and is still crying out for certain types of players but he seems blind to it. 

glad wenger has won yet another trophy. lets hope the next one wont be so far away.


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## jp5 (May 17, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			david moyes has proved that 4th place is a lot harder than it looks.  spurs have been knocking on the door for years and havnt managed to dislodge their neighbours. 


the oil men have ruined wenger's last decade. he hasn helped himself at times. the team was and is still crying out for certain types of players but he seems blind to it. 

glad wenger has won yet another trophy. lets hope the next one wont be so far away.
		
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Nice balanced view :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Ok a lack of success then, not failure. 
And I mentioned Rafa as, you sarcastically called him genius for winning a cup comp claiming it had no relevance to the league. I'd argue with bug clubs, success breeds more success. 

So was just curious how you viewed Liverpool during rafas reign. A success because of the irrelevant cup wins, or a lack of success due to your failure to win a title?
		
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Rafas reign started great but we didnt push on from winning the Cl and FA Cup in his first two season and ultimately his fight with the owners cost him his job. I would have liked to have seen what he would have done with our current owners. So in 5 years Rafa won more than Wenger including the biggest club trophy in Europe.

Agin it doesnt take away from the fact in ten years Arsenal have had no serious title challenges and have won one FA Cup and people are calling Wenger a genuis ? I havent called him a failure or anything like that but i would expect a lot more from a genius and certainly would expect more if paying as much as Arsenal fans have.


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## garyinderry (May 17, 2014)

jp5 said:



			Nice balanced view :thup:
		
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I am an arsenal fan.  ive had plenty of time to mull it over down the years!


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			For the record including this season its 4 times 

Again if the ambition of the club is just to gain CL footy every year then Wenger is a genius - i know i would aim a little bit higher when im forking out for the most expensive tickets in Uk football
		
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Fair point. 4 it is. Forgot your 2nd place to UTD. 

I don't think the season price has too much to do with success or failure. You can watch UTD (might not want to this year) for less than West Ham.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 17, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Fair point. 4 it is. Forgot your 2nd place to UTD. 

I don't think the season price has too much to do with success or failure. You can watch UTD (might not want to this year) for less than West Ham.
		
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Man Utd get 70 plus thousand in hence the price of the season tickets but rumours of it increasing to balance the lack of CL.

If you want the club to just qualify for the CL and thats it then Arsenal fans will be happy - if you want more than that then Arsenal fans wont be happy. A lot of more of the second type have certainly surfaced over the last 12 months.

Perfect example is the signing of Ozil - at the beginning of the season the one type of player they didnt need was a lightweight small attacking mid - Wenger went and spent Â£30 plus million on one and ignored the obvious gaps in the squad


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## Papas1982 (May 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Man Utd get 70 plus thousand in hence the price of the season tickets but rumours of it increasing to balance the lack of CL.

If you want the club to just qualify for the CL and thats it then Arsenal fans will be happy - if you want more than that then Arsenal fans wont be happy. A lot of more of the second type have certainly surfaced over the last 12 months.

Perfect example is the signing of Ozil - at the beginning of the season the one type of player they didnt need was a lightweight small attacking mid - Wenger went and spent Â£30 plus million on one and ignored the obvious gaps in the squad
		
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Most managers have footballing philosophies that they follow though. Saints needed a decent centre back at start of season but we signed so also for silly money instead because Pochettino rated him. That was a failure but I'll still not criticise him for it. 

I agree re they needed a ball winner, but when Ramsey was in his purple patch if that's what it was. Nobody was saying they needed a ball winner then as flamini was adequate. Arsenal needed a marque signing and they got one. Next season will show if he was worth it or not. 

Re old trafford. I think it's more a case of location than size. Tickets are cheaper up north than London. I'm not sure UTD under the glaziers would be selling tickets in the cheap just because of volume.


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## chrisd (May 17, 2014)

Well I'm delighted Hull got beat!

As a Palace fan I could never forgive that big fat arse Bruce for walking out on us when he did and going to a " bigger" club - Birmingham ! On his first return to Selhurst, he got the most abuse I've ever heard metted out to anyone from a normally tolerant crowd. This year we beat Hull at home so he was gutted!

Up the Gunners!


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## ToddM1985 (May 18, 2014)

Seems Arsenal are getting hammered tonight, they have won more trophy than a few bigger clubs this year.


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## MegaSteve (May 18, 2014)

About time the FA sorted out the ticket allocation :angry:...


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## sawtooth (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well off course if you take away other clubs it will look rosey !! Take away those clubs and we would have won the title about 3 or 4 times in that period !!
.
		
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Yep the 3 clubs that happen to have extreme wealth, willing to spend as much as it takes to sign the worlds best players.

And most of the players that have left Arsenal have left because they cant win a trophy at Arsenal? Are you really that naÃ¯ve? They left for more money period. (Fabregas and Henry notable exceptions). 

If Arsenal had spent as much as the big 3 they would have kept Nasri, Van Persie, Clichy, Cole, Flamini, Adebayor, etc etc. We could have also added players like Hazard and Dzeko. But no they had their heads turned by money and as a result , Wengers teams were weaker and the rival super rich teams grew stronger.

Despite the obvious gap in financial power compared to the other 3 teams , Wenger's Arsenal teams have always been competitive and play attractive football to boot. He hasn't done that all that bad all things considered.

Hopefully FFP will help level the playing field for Arsenal and the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Spurs,....


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Yep the 3 clubs that happen to have extreme wealth, willing to spend as much as it takes to sign the worlds best players.

And most of the players that have left Arsenal have left because they cant win a trophy at Arsenal? Are you really that naÃ¯ve? They left for more money period. (Fabregas and Henry notable exceptions). 

If Arsenal had spent as much as the big 3 they would have kept Nasri, Van Persie, Clichy, Cole, Flamini, Adebayor, etc etc. We could have also added players like Hazard and Dzeko. But no they had their heads turned by money and as a result , Wengers teams were weaker and the rival super rich teams grew stronger.

Despite the obvious gap in financial power compared to the other 3 teams , Wenger's Arsenal teams have always been competitive and play attractive football to boot. He hasn't done that all that bad all things considered.

Hopefully FFP will help level the playing field for Arsenal and the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Spurs,....
		
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Lots of "coulds" "ifs" and "hopes" in there. We managed to be competitive this season against the super rich teams and play attractive football and added a real title challenge into the equation. 

You can suggest the players left for money but look at the trophies they have won since they left

Cole, Fabregas, Rvp , Nasri ,Adebayor etc have all left and gone on to win titles and CL.

Wenger as you say "hasnt done all that bad" but is that the level of your expectation ? "all that bad"


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## jp5 (May 18, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			And most of the players that have left Arsenal have left because they cant win a trophy at Arsenal? Are you really that naÃ¯ve? They left for more money period. (Fabregas and Henry notable exceptions). 

If Arsenal had spent as much as the big 3 they would have kept Nasri, Van Persie, Clichy, Cole, Flamini, Adebayor, etc etc. We could have also added players like Hazard and Dzeko. But no they had their heads turned by money and as a result , Wengers teams were weaker and the rival super rich teams grew stronger.
		
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van Persie would have stayed at Arsenal purely for more money? I'm not so sure. At some point more money has little meaning to these multi-millionaire footballers and I'm sure someone with the talent of van Persie wants to be winning Championships, not Emirates Cups.

I think van Persie made up his mind a few years back when we'd just drawn level with Utd with 10 mins to go, and Wenger took off Oxlade-Chamberlain (our best player on the night) for the lazy Russian.

Until Wenger addresses the weaknesses in the squad, Arsenal will remain a feeder club to the elite teams.


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## Papas1982 (May 18, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Yep the 3 clubs that happen to have extreme wealth, willing to spend as much as it takes to sign the worlds best players.

And most of the players that have left Arsenal have left because they cant win a trophy at Arsenal? Are you really that naÃ¯ve? They left for more money period. (Fabregas and Henry notable exceptions). 

If Arsenal had spent as much as the big 3 they would have kept Nasri, Van Persie, Clichy, Cole, Flamini, Adebayor, etc etc. We could have also added players like Hazard and Dzeko. But no they had their heads turned by money and as a result , Wengers teams were weaker and the rival super rich teams grew stronger.

Despite the obvious gap in financial power compared to the other 3 teams , Wenger's Arsenal teams have always been competitive and play attractive football to boot. He hasn't done that all that bad all things considered.

Hopefully FFP will help level the playing field for Arsenal and the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Spurs,....
		
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To be fair, UTD shouldn't be classed alongside Chelsea and City.


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## Liverbirdie (May 18, 2014)

sawtooth said:



			Yep the 3 clubs that happen to have extreme wealth, willing to spend as much as it takes to sign the worlds best players.

And most of the players that have left Arsenal have left because they cant win a trophy at Arsenal? Are you really that naÃ¯ve? They left for more money period. (Fabregas and Henry notable exceptions). 

If Arsenal had spent as much as the big 3 they would have kept Nasri, Van Persie, Clichy, Cole, Flamini, Adebayor, etc etc. We could have also added players like Hazard and Dzeko. But no they had their heads turned by money and as a result , Wengers teams were weaker and the rival super rich teams grew stronger.

Despite the obvious gap in financial power compared to the other 3 teams , Wenger's Arsenal teams have always been competitive and play attractive football to boot. He hasn't done that all that bad all things considered.

Hopefully FFP will help level the playing field for Arsenal and the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Spurs,....
		
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I'd agree with a lot of that, but also think that some have left for a bigger chance of medals also.

If Arsenal/Wenger do get the chequebbok out and start winning leagues or even a CL, the last few years will be seen as a good launch pad by stabilising the finances and paying off a lot of the stadium debt.

If they dont, I think they did miss out on a few chances to push on by buying the players required to get them up amongst City/United/Chelsea. They weren't far away but due to lack of investment, and buying a few more defensive minded players, or forwards this season, was why they didn't ultimately win in the last 2-3 seasons.

The big shame is it seems that they have had spare money over the last year or so, and they should have bought a forward in August or January. 

Congratulations on the win, I wanted the northern underdog to win, but fair play coming back from 2 goals down is always good. Very entertaining.


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## Foxholer (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What does Liverpool have to do with anything ?
		
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Apparently quite a bit!



Liverpoolphil said:



			...
Agin it doesnt take away from the fact in ten years Arsenal have had no serious title challenges and have won one FA Cup and people are calling Wenger a genuis ? I havent called him a failure or anything like that but i would expect a lot more from a genius and certainly would expect more if paying as much as Arsenal fans have.
		
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How much has Liverpool won in the last 7 years? 1 League Cup?

How much Champions League? None in the last 4 years!

Bit rich really!

I wouldn't call Wenger a genius, but the fact that Maureen snipes at him so often means, to me, he considers him a serious rival! He certainly manages well so the club/business works financially!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



*Apparently quite a bit!*



How much has Liverpool won in the last 7 years? 1 League Cup?

How much Champions League? None in the last 4 years!

Bit rich really!

I wouldn't call Wenger a genius, but the fact that Maureen snipes at him so often means, to me, he considers him a serious rival! He certainly manages well so the club/business works financially!
		
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Only when people bring them into the equation because it appears people cant talk football on here without bringing Liverpool into it - surprised Suarez hasnt been mentioned yet. 

Again what does what Liverpool have won in the last 7 years ( why have you narrowed it down to 7 when i mentioned 10 years ) ? Have to do with Wenger ?


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## Foxholer (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Only when people bring them into the equation because it appears people cant talk football on here without bringing Liverpool into it - surprised Suarez hasnt been mentioned yet. 

Again what does what Liverpool have won in the last 7 years ( why have you narrowed it down to 7 when i mentioned 10 years ) ? Have to do with Wenger ?
		
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Yep. I'd be happy to have all mention of LFC banned! 

Btw It's 2 FA cups (2005 also). 

If going back 13 years (starting Beg of Season 2001/2) would have added 2 more FA cups and 2 Premier League titles - including the 'unbeaten' one! I guess that's why you restricted it to 10 years (Start of 2004/5 season). Coincidentally the year after Emirates stadium was started. I'm as certain as I can be that that has restricted the *net* spend since.

So taking out the Big 3 - the 2 toy clubs and Man U, comparison with the 'competitors' - Liverpool, Spurs, Everton - is pretty reasonable imo!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Yep. I'd be happy to have all mention of LFC banned! 

Btw It's 2 FA cups (2005 also). 

If going back 13 years (starting Beg of Season 2001/2) would have added 2 more FA cups and 2 Premier League titles - including the 'unbeaten' one! I guess that's why you restricted it to 10 years (Start of 2004/5 season). Coincidentally the year after Emirates stadium was started. I'm as certain as I can be that that has restricted the *net* spend since.
		
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It was ten years because thats the gap since Arsenal last won the title with the invincibles and been ten seasons or is it 9 since their last trophy. Thats the reason why that timeline was mentioned.


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## Foxholer (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was ten years because thats the gap since Arsenal last won the title with the invincibles and been ten seasons or is it 9 since their last trophy. Thats the reason why that timeline was mentioned.
		
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And to go back to the last season a certain 'unmentionable' team won the League (not KO comps as you don't consider them indicative!) would require going back 24 years. In that time, Arsenal has won the Premier League 4 times!

I believe it's only their Financial Prudence from the huge capital investment of the Emirates Stadium that's causing the issues and he is 'managing' well within the constraints. Had they had an active Sugar Daddy, that would have all been paid for by now and, if not, would have been discounted for FFP consideration.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			And to go back to the last season a certain 'unmentionable' team won the League (not KO comps as you don't consider them indicative!) would require going back 24 years. In that time, Arsenal has won the Premier League 4 times!

I believe it's only their Financial Prudence from the huge capital investment of the Emirates Stadium that's causing the issues and he is 'managing' well within the constraints. Had they had an active Sugar Daddy, that would have all been paid for by now and, if not, would have been discounted for FFP consideration.
		
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Arsenal have still managed to fork out Â£150mil over the last three seasons ? Spent overÂ£30mil on just one player last summer. Been told in the press that there has always been money available to him but appears unwilling to spend it especially on marquee players. The Mancs also havent had an active sugar daddy as been stated.


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## Toad (May 18, 2014)

Diddy cup, this was the only final that mattered on Saturday.

http://i4.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article3556251.ece/alternates/s2197/JS36854074.jpg


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## fundy (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It was ten years because thats the gap since Arsenal last won the title with the invincibles and been ten seasons or is it 9 since their last trophy. Thats the reason why that timeline was mentioned.
		
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more to the point when assessing Wenger and his so called "genius" why are you only using 10 years, he has been arsenal manager for 18 years, or does the whole record not fit the point you are trying to make?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2014)

fundy said:



			more to the point when assessing Wenger and his so called "genius" why are you only using 10 years, he has been arsenal manager for 18 years, or does the whole record not fit the point you are trying to make?
		
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The point im making that since the invicibles all left - Adams , Veira etc his team on the pitch hasnt moved forward in the past decade.

yes he did some great stuff in his first 8 years - no doubt about that, thats never in question. 

Its a long time to not be challenging at the very least for major honours.


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## FairwayDodger (May 18, 2014)

Toad said:



			Diddy cup, this was the only final that mattered on Saturday.

http://i4.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article3556251.ece/alternates/s2197/JS36854074.jpg

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Well done to your boys, great performance!


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## Foxholer (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal have still managed to fork out Â£150mil over the last three seasons ? Spent overÂ£30mil on just one player last summer. Been told in the press that there has always been money available to him but appears unwilling to spend it especially on marquee players....
		
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That's self contradictory!

And it's the net spend that's important - at least to Arsenal. You seem to have the figures. What was Arsenal's *net* spend/profit from transfers in/out in that period? I'm pretty sure they'd have made a profit in that period - even after amortization.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			That's self contradictory!

And it's the net spend that's important - at least to Arsenal. You seem to have the figures. What was Arsenal's *net* spend/profit from transfers in/out in that period? I'm pretty sure they'd have made a profit in that period - even after amortization.
		
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Â£23mil net spend in the last three years 

Yep as a business looking to make a profit they do very well - as a football team ? Well thats all down to your expectations.


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## Foxholer (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£23mil net spend in the last three years 

Yep as a business looking to make a profit they do very well - as a football team ? Well thats all down to your expectations.
		
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Er: Where did you get those figures? I just found some that indicate a Â£13M profit!

So are you saying you expect the Football Club to overspend - make a loss - just so you can enjoy supporting them?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Er: Where did you get those figures? I just found some that indicate a Â£13M profit!

So are you saying you expect the Football Club to overspend - make a loss - just so you can enjoy supporting them?
		
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http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/arsenal-transfers.html

Last three seasons - Â£23mil net spend

I expect the football club I support to look after the team on the field instead of looking to make profits.


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## Foxholer (May 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/arsenal-transfers.html

Last three seasons - Â£23mil net spend

I expect the football club I support to look after the team on the field instead of looking to make profits.
		
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I've gone off the Annual Reports. 1 year adrift, but shows all values and more accurate - no incentives/extras etc, included. 

Wenger's statement in the link above is pretty reasonable! A club has to make a profit to survive! Otherwise it's just a toy for its owner! And FFP should counter, if not quash, both the toy and the unsustainable losses issues!

To take a club known to both of us, how long do you expect losses of 40-50 million to be sustainable?


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## guest100718 (May 19, 2014)

Has anyone mentioned net spend yet?


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## Pin-seeker (May 19, 2014)

Since Arsenal last won the League Chelsea & City have become much stronger so obviously it's going to be harder to win it. If you look at the likes of Spurs & Liverpool I don't think Arsene is doing a bad job. 
I can see UTD being back in contention next season,not playing in Europe is massive when contending for the league.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 19, 2014)

Toad said:



			Diddy cup, this was the only final that mattered on Saturday.

http://i4.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article3556251.ece/alternates/s2197/JS36854074.jpg

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We were sat right behind the St Johnstone banner - great seat - great day - I'm still birlin' my scarf :whoo:


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## Toad (May 19, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			We were sat right behind the St Johnstone banner - great seat - great day - I'm still birlin' my scarf :whoo:
		
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We were in the lower half of the Jock Stein stand in row DD . Was a great day to be a saints fan and loved every minute of the day, got back to Perth and the whole town was jumping.

We finally got our hands on the worlds oldest domestic trophy and deserved every bit of it. COYS. :clap::clap:


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## CMAC (May 19, 2014)

hey Toad, long time no see


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## HomerJSimpson (May 19, 2014)

I think Arsenal did a good job coming from two goals down early to win and as a neutral it was a decent game. Nine years is way too long for a club of their stature to go without winning anything but in that time I do think they have been competitive both in the PL and CL. Have they spent wisely? Maybe. Maybe not but that is an accusation you can level at most clubs, not just the top five or six.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 20, 2014)

Toad said:



			We were in the lower half of the Jock Stein stand in row DD . Was a great day to be a saints fan and loved every minute of the day, got back to Perth and the whole town was jumping.

We finally got our hands on the worlds oldest domestic trophy and deserved every bit of it. COYS. :clap::clap:
		
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We were level with 18yd box towards back of lower tier North Stand.  And we got a great view of the JS stand - was just brilliant to see a huge sea of Saintees.  Looks like town gave the team a great welcome in the open top bus journey


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## CMAC (May 20, 2014)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			We were level with 18yd box towards back of lower tier North Stand.  *And we got a great view of the JS stand *- was just brilliant to see a huge sea of Saintees.  Looks like town gave the team a great welcome in the open top bus journey 

Click to expand...

did you see Toad?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 20, 2014)

CMAC said:



			did you see Toad?
		
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In all probability yes - but I also saw another 12,999 Saintees in the JS stand.


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