# Eng v S.A. Test Series



## Piece (Jul 1, 2017)

Test squad for S.A. series announced this morning.

What do you think?

Ballance back in. Not sure about that. Has scored runs recently but at test level his footwork was poor. Likely to be exposed I think. 

No Rashid? Dawson gets the spin nod instead. 

Hameed out due to lack of runs. Understand that one as Jennings a decent replacement. 

Broad back in but fitness lacking. No-one really knocking the doors down though. 

In all, a bit of a dull squad if you know what I mean.


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## fundy (Jul 1, 2017)

Surprised theyve gone back to Ballance especially against the Saffers. From what I hear hes done little to address the weakness against the short stuff whilst continuing to plunder county attacks. On the plus side hes in as good as nick as possible coming in.

Hamed will get another chance most likely against the WI later in the year if hes got some runs at county level. Expect they take a look at Stoneman sooner rather than later too

Dont understand Dawsons selection, are we really trying to shoe horn in 2 spinners for the first test of the summer at home? And if you are is he really a better option that Rashid 

Roland Jones a like for like attempt to replace Woakes I guess, be interesting to see how he goes at this level, do wonder if he needs an extra yard of pace

Lets hope Wood stays fit for the summer as think that attack will look quite ordinary without him

Could be a good series, lets hope we end the succession of the away side winning the series between these sides


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2017)

Yeah the fitness of all quicks is a concern. Wood, Stokes, Broad, Anderson all with recent injuries.


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## fundy (Jul 1, 2017)

Piece said:



			Yeah the fitness of all quicks is a concern. Wood, Stokes, Broad, Anderson all with recent injuries.
		
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you do wonder if thats why they want 2 spinners as they dont expect the quicks to last the game out lol

Wood/Stokes both likely to be protected to some degree Jimmy/Broad not spring chickens anymore and Woakes and Ball already out injured

Whos next in line? go back to Plunkett or Finn? Or throw in someone like Curran/Overton/Porter?


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2017)

Plunkett and Finn are definite nos for me. Plunkett is better of the two if push comes to shove. 

The other names are a good shout. Curran did well in the recent T20, far better than Willey. I would have liked to have seen a young fast bowler given a chance as I share your fear that these old uns won't last the series. 

Speaking of spinners, the selectors favourite Patel is in the form of his life


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## fundy (Jul 1, 2017)

Piece said:



			Plunkett and Finn are definite nos for me. Plunkett is better of the two if push comes to shove. 

The other names are a good shout. Curran did well in the recent T20, far better than Willey. I would have liked to have seen a young fast bowler given a chance as I share your fear that these old uns won't last the series. 

Speaking of spinners, the selectors favourite Patel is in the form of his life 

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Samits ship sunk years ago lol  bowled superb at Lords in the final today. See Stoneman sticking 2 fingers up to the selectors too!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2017)

Some poor choices imo

Ballance has done nothing to address his footwork problems 

Roland Jones is just a nothing bowler 

Dawson is not good enough as a front line spinner and England have currently destroyed Leach 

Stoneman should have been in 

Overton won't get picked until he joins a different county , Curran deserved a chance and would have given Crane a go if they aren't going to trust Rashid

Think England will still win ththe series but that squad won't win down under


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## Piece (Jul 1, 2017)

Some brilliant batting from Stoneman and then even better from Hales. Costly early drops though!


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## fundy (Jul 1, 2017)

Piece said:



			Some brilliant batting from Stoneman and then even better from Hales. Costly early drops though!
		
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bizarre game, as if those 2 were playing on a different wicket at times. pleased for Read to go out on a  high too


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## Junior (Jul 1, 2017)

Dawson won't get a sniff.  Crane just sent down 16 overs for 89 (no wickets) against them.  He needs overs for his county.   I'd have played Rashid in the Lions in his place.  

Ballance is the safe and predictable choice.  He's by far and away the best (English?) batsmen in county cricket this year, averaging 90 odd.

Roland Jones is a strange choice.  He's not really in form and I thought that Porter Joe Leach from Worcester or Coad might have made the squad.  

I don't think it's going to be as much of a walkover as people think.  Amla, Morkel , Rabada are world class and de Kock is one of the best wicket keeper batsmen in the world.  Morris is a quality all rounder aswell.  I predict 1-1


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## fundy (Jul 1, 2017)

Junior said:



			Dawson won't get a sniff.  Crane just sent down 16 overs for 89 (no wickets) against them.  He needs overs for his county.   I'd have played Rashid in the Lions in his place.  

Ballance is the safe and predictable choice.  He's by far and away the best (English?) batsmen in county cricket this year, averaging 90 odd.

Roland Jones is a strange choice.  He's not really in form and I thought that Porter Joe Leach from Worcester or Coad might have made the squad.  

I don't think it's going to be as much of a walkover as people think.  Amla, Morkel , Rabada are world class and de Kock is one of the best wicket keeper batsmen in the world.  Morris is a quality all rounder aswell.  I predict 1-1
		
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dont see a walkover here at all, think they have one of if not the best attack about at the moment, certainly have better seam options than we do currently, yes theyll miss de villiers but they have other good players and time for some of them to put their hands up

somewhere around 3/1 for SA in the first test looks on the big side to me


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 1, 2017)

This isn't test related but a big round of applause for Chris Read today. Tremendous county cricketer who should have had a significant number of test caps but doesn't. 

Surprised that Ballance has been recalled. Surely he has been found out at Test level?


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## Junior (Jul 1, 2017)

fundy said:



			dont see a walkover here at all, think they have one of if not the best attack about at the moment, certainly have better seam options than we do currently, yes theyll miss de villiers but they have other good players and time for some of them to put their hands up

somewhere around 3/1 for SA in the first test looks on the big side to me
		
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I agree.  I'm sure the selectors hoped that Hameed and Jennings would have filled their boots in county cricket.  That way, With Cook and those 2, Root could have gone back to 4 and there would have been no issue.  

Bowling is is a bit samey, but Andersons been in form for Lancs and keeping him fit will be key for England this series. 

Im looking forward to the real international  cricket starting


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## fundy (Jul 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This isn't test related but a big round of applause for Chris Read today. Tremendous county cricketer who should have had a significant number of test caps but doesn't. 

Surprised that Ballance has been recalled. Surely he has been found out at Test level?
		
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yeah hard not to be pleased to see Read go out on such a high note, been a great servant at county level


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## patricks148 (Jul 1, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This isn't test related but a big round of applause for Chris Read today. Tremendous county cricketer who should have had a significant number of test caps but doesn't. 

Surprised that Ballance has been recalled. Surely he has been found out at Test level?
		
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yes its a shame he didn't get more of an opportunity, esp as the guy that kept him out of the side GJ was pish  behind the stumps .

Ballance, i expect the only people please he is in the side would be the SA quicks


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## Wabinez (Jul 2, 2017)

Surprised Ballance gets a nod, and Tom Westley overlooked. Has scored a bucketload this year, and got another ton against SA for the Lions.


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## fundy (Jul 5, 2017)

looks like Dawson will play with TRJ missing out from the 12 man squad, strange, very strange for me


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## Jates12 (Jul 6, 2017)

I know Hameed hasnt got many this year but Jennings is only averaging 30 odd in div 2 this year. Should of still been included for me as he is the future at the top of the order. I know that we have injuries in the bowling ranks but im happy with the selection, I for one am very glad that woakes isnt near the side. I dont rate him at all.

Im really excited for Joe Root's captaincy, think he will be a great leader and continue his form with the bat.

As previously stated im still not sure about balance at the top level, he just doesnt move his feet, but neither did trescothick and he scored a boat load of runs!


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			I know Hameed hasnt got many this year but Jennings is only averaging 30 odd in div 2 this year. Should of still been included for me as he is the future at the top of the order. I know that we have injuries in the bowling ranks but im happy with the selection, I for one am very glad that woakes isnt near the side. I dont rate him at all.

Im really excited for Joe Root's captaincy, think he will be a great leader and continue his form with the bat.

As previously stated im still not sure about balance at the top level, he just doesnt move his feet, but neither did trescothick and he scored a boat load of runs!
		
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Woakes is only nowhere near the side as hes injured, will be straight back in when fit

England 20-2 already


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## Beezerk (Jul 6, 2017)

A good captain can't make Cook bat any better it seems.


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## patricks148 (Jul 6, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			A good captain can't make Cook bat any better it seems.
		
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or make Balance look like is feet are not stuck in concrete


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## Captainron (Jul 6, 2017)

Ballance has made 2 massive review errors there. Good for us though.

Wish Markram had taken that catch off Root. That really would have helped South africa


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## Captainron (Jul 6, 2017)

STOP dropping Root!!!!


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2017)

Captainron said:



			Ballance has made 2 massive review errors there. Good for us though.

Wish Markram had taken that catch off Root. That really would have helped South africa
		
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up till then everything pretty much gone your way, lets hope its costly. we definitely look a batter light (often do when 3 down early lol)


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 6, 2017)

Interesting stat

Over the last three years, in 64 innings, England have lost their third wicket at 55 or lower 23 times.


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2017)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Interesting stat

Over the last three years, in 64 innings, England have lost their third wicket at 55 or lower 23 times.
		
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TMS on at work Homer


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## Piece (Jul 6, 2017)

Text book Ballance dismissal. A few short balls in a row to push him back then pitch it up....feet trapped and gone. Won't be first time in this series he out from a fuller delivery.

Alot now rests on Root and Bairstow.


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## Jates12 (Jul 6, 2017)

Jennings has had a stinker of a decision there. I cant believe the umpire has even give that, From behind his head you can see middle and off so there is no way it could of possibly be hitting leg, at least half the ball anyways. Ballance shouldnt of even been in the position to make that review. (Not defending ballance cause i dont think he is good enough but thats a different matter)


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## Captainron (Jul 6, 2017)

Morne Morkel you absolute wally! 

I have played a lot of cricket. I can 100% honestly say that I have NEVER EVER bowled a front foot no ball. Why the heck don't bowlers make sure they land behind the line, never mind cut the crease. &#128545;&#128545;&#128545;


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2017)

Captainron said:



			Morne Morkel you absolute wally! 

I have played a lot of cricket. I can 100% honestly say that I have NEVER EVER bowled a front foot no ball. Why the heck don't bowlers make sure they land behind the line, never mind cut the crease. &#128545;&#128545;&#128545;
		
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any danger of your lot bowling more than 80 overs today? gonna need to bowl 40 overs after tea the rate theyre going at!


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## fundy (Jul 6, 2017)

Bad enough Morkel doing it but the spinner doing it! 

Root had a pretty blessed first day as captain, think Saffers gonna regret wasting a great position here today especially on what looks a drier than usual Lords pitch which mat not quite be as flat on days 4 and 5 as it usually is


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 7, 2017)

The one consolation for this series is it's the last one that senile Blofeld will be doing on air.  With luck he can ride off into the sunset and take the most annoying commentator in the history of the world with him, one G.Boycott.


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## Jates12 (Jul 7, 2017)

Good Work this Morning from the Tail. Even Anderson with a Maximum! I must say that watching Broad bat today took me back to my 1st XI debut age 15 batting 11 with their Pakistani Pro with his tail up steaming in at me trying to bump me out, I was jumping around like a kangaroo with a thorn in its foot.


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## fundy (Jul 7, 2017)

gonna be tough batting last on this, very dry, couple disturbed the top and a few starting to keep low. Lords normally holds together better than pretty much anywhere else but plenty of signs this isnt a typical Lords deck.


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## fundy (Jul 7, 2017)

massive morning session for SA after losing the late wicket, have to bat well or hard to see any way back

Rabada missing for the 2nd test match, hard to believe that telling Stokes to foxtrott oscar is inappropriate!!!

Deemed a worse offense than being 9 overs short of your quota and once again the paying fan gets short changed


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## JT77 (Jul 7, 2017)

He received 1 point for the FO but had 3 from an altercation in a one day gave v Sri Lanka and once u get 4 points u get a ban, silly on his part really. 
SA have work to do if they want to get back into this match. 
Root the difference so far, Hopefulky England get the job done. 
I agree about the over rate fundy, it is something needing looked at.


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## fundy (Jul 7, 2017)

JT77 said:



			He received 1 point for the FO but had 3 from an altercation in a one day gave v Sri Lanka and once u get 4 points u get a ban, silly on his part really. 
SA have work to do if they want to get back into this match. 
Root the difference so far, Hopefulky England get the job done. 
I agree about the over rate fundy, it is something needing looked at.
		
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its needed looking at for 10+ years yet they still do nothing about it


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## JT77 (Jul 7, 2017)

Agreed mate, I think the players feel it's ok to do now as they can get away Scott free


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			its needed looking at for 10+ years yet they still do nothing about it
		
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Too true. Gets talked about every year and nothing happens, sound familiar? Start fining the fielding team a % of their earnings for each over they are short. That is the best way to speed things up.


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## fundy (Jul 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Too true. Gets talked about every year and nothing happens, sound familiar? Start fining the fielding team a % of their earnings for each over they are short. That is the best way to speed things up.
		
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every ten overs (5 overs for odis, 2 overs for t20) check the over rate, if they fallen behind remove the skipper from the field. check the rate again after another 10, if theyre back on track he can return, if still behind send the vice captain off, rinse and repeat


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 7, 2017)

I think that would be too short a time frame. I accept the opening bowlers will be slow in the first hour or two but that should be balanced out by the use of spinners or change medium pacers.


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## patricks148 (Jul 7, 2017)

a little confused at the line Anderson bowled to Der Brain. out side off would have seen him either not score or get out. yet JA bowled middle and leg which suited DB shovel into the leg side. 

Mo Ali bowled well though., Rashid  would have been a handful on that wicket.


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## fundy (Jul 8, 2017)

top class counter attack from de Kock. 50 off 36 balls and looked imperious especially batting with the tail


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## fundy (Jul 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			top class counter attack from de Kock. 50 off 36 balls and looked imperious especially batting with the tail
		
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and out next ball, top class jinxing lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2017)

Lovely player to watch though. Looking forward to seeing more of him through the series.


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## fundy (Jul 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Lovely player to watch though. Looking forward to seeing more of him through the series.
		
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For sure, hard to fathom that he can have come in at 8 in a side that has Duminy at 4 though, has to bat higher (and higher than 7 too)


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2017)

Yeah. 8 was because they sent in a nightwatchman last night but 7 is still too late.


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## fundy (Jul 8, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Yeah. 8 was because they sent in a nightwatchman last night but 7 is still too late.
		
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i get that but he should never be at 7 in a side that contains Duminy, Bavuma and De Bruin lol


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 8, 2017)

Agreed


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## Junior (Jul 8, 2017)

De Kock is class.  Imo, Ingram would / should be in the SA side.  Ali bowled well today, he is a fantastic cricketer for England.


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## patricks148 (Jul 8, 2017)

Englands run rate was bit pedestrian this afternoon, should have had over 250 lead by COP. Maybe made more of an effort to go after their spinner, esp with Phillander  injured. could have really pressed home the advantage and put pressure on the bowlers and make them use the part timers more.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			top class counter attack from de Kock. 50 off 36 balls and looked imperious especially batting with the tail
		
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To be fair all of the Sky team, Botham, Warne, etc reckon he should be at 4 or 5 at the lowest. He's a good batsman and often seems panicked (not today) trying to make runs with tail enders. Shame he made a mistake after the 50 and the 2nd fastest at Lords isn't a bad thing for the CV


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## fundy (Jul 9, 2017)

one helluva morning session as the pitch deteriorates pretty quickly. Saffers giving themselves an outside chance albeit gonna be mighty tough chasing on this

would love to see them show some intent and send de kock in at the top of the order


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 9, 2017)

All those muppets complaining about Cook and Ballance scoring too slowly - look what happened when they got out.  T20 has made too many cricket fans totally clueless about Test match play.


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## Junior (Jul 9, 2017)

Pathetic Shark said:



			All those muppets complaining about Cook and Ballance scoring too slowly - look what happened when they got out.  T20 has made too many cricket fans totally clueless about Test match play.
		
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Willis and Botham as per usual sucking the life out of a solid days performance.   I agree 100% with you. Loads of time left to bat, difficult wicket, just make sure the lead gets to 300.  SA now 74/7, further proving the point.


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## fundy (Jul 9, 2017)

Moeen been superb, SA been awful

Always looked a very dry surface, sort of explains why we picked Dawson (well explains why we picked a second spinner, not why we picked Dawson)


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## Junior (Jul 9, 2017)

fundy said:



			Moeen been superb, SA been awful

Always looked a very dry surface, sort of explains why we picked Dawson (well explains why we picked a second spinner, not why we picked Dawson)
		
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Good selection, I thought TJR would get the nod.  Bit of a kick in the stones for Rashid tho.  Is his test career over???


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## fundy (Jul 9, 2017)

Junior said:



			Good selection, I thought TJR would get the nod.  Bit of a kick in the stones for Rashid tho.  Is his test career over???
		
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not sure tbh re Rashid, I expect not. Ill be very very surpised if Dawson gets to 10 caps


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 9, 2017)

Was quite a brilliant test I thought. Just shows you don't need 400 in 20 or 50 overs to be captivating


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2017)

Fantastic day of cricket for the armchair fans. Wickets a plenty before lunch and then SA set a tough target and skittled out by some top class bowling. I think SA look average and not sure whether Du Plessis will make a difference if he comes back in. They seem a side in development but any side that has lost the players of the stature of those that have retired in the last few years would struggle. 

Thumbs up to the women too who recovered from a wobbly collapse to post a competitive score and then got the job done on the Aussies to grab a win


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## Jates12 (Jul 10, 2017)

Junior said:



			Good selection, I thought TJR would get the nod.  Bit of a kick in the stones for Rashid tho.  Is his test career over???
		
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Dont quite agree that it was good selection, Joe root could of rolled out the figures that dawson did. Rashid has to feel hard done too more than any other spinner.


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## Junior (Jul 10, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Dont quite agree that it was good selection, Joe root could of rolled out the figures that dawson did. Rashid has to feel hard done too more than any other spinner.
		
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What I meant was that it was a good selection to drop the seamer and play the 2nd spinner they selected.  I agree that 2nd spinner should have been Rashid.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 10, 2017)

Very rare for England to play 2 spinners in a home test. Good to see. Hopefully a sign that Root will be more adventurous than Cook as a captain. 

The worry with Rashid is about control and runs per over. I'm not saying that is correct but that is the line being given on TMS.

Not test related but did anyone else see the Notts game on Friday where Fletcher was whacked on the head. Horrible moment, a real sickener. When the physio took his hands away from his head there was a collective intake and hands to mouth from the players on the pitch. You knew it was unpleasant when there were no replays. The good news is he seems to be okay although they will keep monitoring him.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jul 10, 2017)

Friend of mine in our swindle is a MCC member and was there Friday. The morning was excellent he said, but the afternoon and evening sessions were very boring. What he did say about Dawson was that he was bowling too fast so no chance for the bowl to grab and turn. He hoped not playing Rashid would come back to bite us.


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## patricks148 (Jul 10, 2017)

i wonder if questions will be asked about the pitch did England ask for a dry pitch that would break up i wonder?

From my recollection Lords has been a bit of a Road recently that has got better as the game went on and tons of runs scored.

A good move if they did SA seam attack is pretty formidable, and their spinners not all that. But then again that could have backfired.


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## fundy (Jul 10, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			i wonder if questions will be asked about the pitch did England ask for a dry pitch that would break up i wonder?

From my recollection Lords has been a bit of a Road recently that has got better as the game went on and tons of runs scored.

A good move if they did SA seam attack is pretty formidable, and their spinners not all that. But then again that could have backfired.
		
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more a case of it being very late for the first lords test, the weather having been hotter and drier than normal and them having had a lot of cricket there recently 

give me that pitch rather than the normal lords borefest that last 10 days and ensures they get 5 days of revenue despite it being very boring cricket to watch


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 10, 2017)

A home team can have the pitch any way they like, that is their prerogative. Turning wickets in India and Bangladesh by any chance?

The wicket was fine, a good test wicket. Had 20 wickets fallen on day 1 then you have an issue but a test wicket is supposed to break down over time. If not you get a bore fest. as fundy mentions.


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## Junior (Jul 10, 2017)

Thought it was a good cricket wicket. Runs if the batsmen applied themselves and turn for the spinners.  I think it might have been greener if we were playing India


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 10, 2017)

Junior said:



			Thought it was a good cricket wicket. Runs if the batsmen applied themselves and turn for the spinners.  I think it might have been greener if we were playing India 

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This


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

saffers batting looking far stronger with de kock up at 4 (as some of us wanted last test lol), he really is a top class player, good to see Amla back in the runs too


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

small negative for Root early in his captaincy, seems far too happy to refer based on a bowlers say so (the first one off Stokes was laughable), needs to take a few seconds and discuss with the keeper before making a considered judgement (or try and wait for a dressing room signal as the saffers were at lords lol)


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## fundy (Jul 14, 2017)

thats jinxed De Kock out


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2017)

great spell from Andersen this morning, batting not going to be easy in the conditions though, esp against Philander and the new ball


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2017)

Good recovery by England. Honours even at lunch I'd say.


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## pendodave (Jul 15, 2017)

Tricky day to bat.

Can't be good that we rely so much on root, albeit he is fantastic. Not sure we'd ever get 200 without him.


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2017)

batted horrendously, will need SA to be complicit for us to have any chance now really

couple of spots going to come under real pressure if we lose (especially the 2 that shouldnt have been picked in the first place!)


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2017)

It was too painful to watch. I turned over after Ali was out. He handed his wicket to them, very poor. I watched the TDF instead&#128692;&#128693;


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## fundy (Jul 15, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			It was too painful to watch. I turned over after Ali was out. He handed his wicket to them, very poor. I watched the TDF instead&#128692;&#128693;
		
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not seen any of the tdf today, having to slum it with the highlights later


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## Piece (Jul 15, 2017)

Watched most of it today. Root was a class apart in a batting display that was naff, to say the least.

Any rain forecast?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 15, 2017)

Looking like 1-1 and some questions to be asked of the England side before the next one. Some not really doing it and looking out of nick


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## Piece (Jul 16, 2017)

474 to win. 

I say 20-2 at close


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## Beezerk (Jul 16, 2017)

Piece said:



			474 to win. 

I say 20-2 at close
		
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Nearly 0-1


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## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2017)

Good start!


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## Junior (Jul 17, 2017)

Batting frailties to the fore again.  Do they keep faith with Jennings and Balance, or try someone like Stoneman ?  Personally, I'd drop Dawson , drop Ballance down to 5 and play Stoneman, batsman. 3 quality seamers , Ali and root turning his arm over should be enough.  They miss Woakes.


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## Jates12 (Jul 17, 2017)

Junior said:



			Batting frailties to the fore again.  Do they keep faith with Jennings and Balance, or try someone like Stoneman ?  Personally, I'd drop Dawson , drop Ballance down to 5 and play Stoneman, batsman. 3 quality seamers , Ali and root turning his arm over should be enough.  They miss Woakes.
		
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Jennings isnt good enough at test level. You shouldnt be getting bowled through the gate at any standard. I also think dawson isnt good enough and Rashid should be in the side as he is a better bowler and a better bat.


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## patricks148 (Jul 17, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Jennings isnt good enough at test level. You shouldnt be getting bowled through the gate at any standard. I also think dawson isnt good enough and Rashid should be in the side as he is a better bowler and a better bat.
		
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And Balance clearing isn't. 

same dismissal again and again


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## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2017)

Ballance is trash. Why they keep bringing him back is beyond me. Not a Test batsman and never will be.


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## Jates12 (Jul 17, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			And Balance clearing isn't. 

same dismissal again and again
		
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Dan2501 said:



			Ballance is trash. Why they keep bringing him back is beyond me. Not a Test batsman and never will be.
		
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Hasnt ever been good enough, wasnt even going to grace his presence with my time.


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## Piece (Jul 17, 2017)

I've said my bit about Ballance on this thread.

Jennings I thought was tidy until this series. Hangs his bat and too upright. Stoneman is worth a call, though he is another leftie.

Top class ball that from Morris!


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## Jates12 (Jul 17, 2017)

Im reading the commentary at work! Cant wait to see that delivery from Morris, Apparently an absolute trimmer.


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## Wabinez (Jul 17, 2017)

Dawson, Wood, Ballance and Jennings need to be dropped.

As a bowler, you need to take wickets.  Wood just doesn't get them....and his body was obviously struggling with 2 tests on the bounce.  Who you replace him with is the question.


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## fundy (Jul 17, 2017)

Wabinez said:



			Dawson, Wood, Ballance and Jennings need to be dropped.

As a bowler, you need to take wickets.  Wood just doesn't get them....and his body was obviously struggling with 2 tests on the bounce.  Who you replace him with is the question.
		
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should never of picked Wood for this test, proven his body cant deal with back to back tests, think he needs to be carefully managed and used in lots of small bursts then given a rest etc to say that wood doesnt get wickets though is just wrong for me. i also think they need to use him as an out and out strike bowler, his role seems confused at the moment, he doesnt get the new ball and isnt bowling flat out

bit early to drop Jennings for me, theres a couple of flaws in there for sure and this mornings dismissal is very poor but think he deserves until the end of the summer at least

would never of picked Ballance or Dawson (its impossible to see either being right for this winters trip down under!!!)

Woakes has been an obvious miss and in his absence Id like to have seen TRJ have a shot but as discussed a few weeks ago, theres a lot of potentially good young quicks about but hard to make a case that any of them are ready

As for batters, Stoneman has more than earnt a shot, Hameed is clearly on the radar if he can get runs at county cricket level again and if looking in the middle order Id think Malan is one worth a look at


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## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2017)

72/4. Cook and Root gone. Game over.


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## Junior (Jul 17, 2017)

Ballance is averaging nearly twice as much as the next Englishman in first class cricket.  I think he should have a run at number 5 in the test team and bring in Stoneman at number 3.   Not a huge Balance fan but I say this because I'm not sure which other batsmen in our county system is good enough........


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## Captainron (Jul 17, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Im reading the commentary at work! Cant wait to see that delivery from Morris, Apparently an absolute trimmer.
		
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check the bbc sport site. They have the ball on their live commentary.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2017)

This is pathetic. This team have no backbone. They're great when things are going their way, but everytime they've been in a position like this one they crumble. South Africa are going to go into the next game on a massive high if we fail to put up a fight here.


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## fundy (Jul 17, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			This is pathetic. This team have no backbone. They're great when things are going their way, but everytime they've been in a position like this one they crumble. South Africa are going to go into the next game on a massive high if we fail to put up a fight here.
		
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welcome to modern test cricket, saffers no different in first test. no interest in digging in and battling, just keep playing loose shots


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## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2017)

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...eam=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings

These stats make for grim reading. Spineless to say the least. 

Last 4 have gone for 11 runs in 28 balls. Pathetic.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 17, 2017)

Make it 5/11 from 29 balls. All over.


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## Junior (Jul 17, 2017)

What happened to digging in ?  Caught on the boundary, stumped dancing down the wicket etc etc.  Fair play to South Africa but lack of application by England helped.  I don't buy into this 'its the way they play' BS.  We have hardly passed 300 in recent times and that's 6 losses in 8 matches.  We need to bounce back with a bit of determination.  It's ok being positive, but play yourself in first !!!  Credit where its due, Amla, Elgar, Faf & Philander were superb in this match.


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## Piece (Jul 17, 2017)

That was rubbish from England.

Don't have a problem with Cook at the moment. Good pair of hands and slip and has the experience to bat long. 

Jennings is worth persevering for the rest of the series, with hopefully that he can address his technical issues of staying back and hanging his bat. Mind you, his county record is rubbish this season, just as bad a Hameed's. 

Ballance is no different to the Ballance that first appeared and hasn't changed one iota. County cricket record is great, but this is international level. Found desperately wanting and should be on the first coach out of here. Replace him with Stoneman is my view, but Malan is a good shout.

Root. Come in at three.

Stokes, Ali, Bairstow - talented enough to win games, but want to see some more dig-in attitude. Gave their wickets away.

Wood - doesn't look properly fit. Should be whizzing it in at 90mph+.

Dawson - don't get it at all. Replace with Rashid or Crane.

Broad/Anderson - did OK but second innings were poor. Too short and as Philander shows, hitting the stumps and length is key.


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## fundy (Jul 17, 2017)

Junior said:



*What happened to digging in ? * Caught on the boundary, stumped dancing down the wicket etc etc.  Fair play to South Africa but lack of application by England helped.  I don't buy into this 'its the way they play' BS.  We have hardly passed 300 in recent times and that's 6 losses in 8 matches.  We need to bounce back with a bit of determination.  It's ok being positive, but play yourself in first !!!  Credit where its due, Amla, Elgar, Faf & Philander were superb in this match.  

Click to expand...

T20s did


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 17, 2017)

Just seen a stat from Michael Vaughan on Twitter that England batted for a total of 96.1 overs in this test. You aren't going to win many games if you only manage to bat for a little over one day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 17, 2017)

Still think Cook should be captain - Root wanted Ballance and Dawson added and both were a waste of space , poor reviews as well - can see Root having a bit of a mare as Captain


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 17, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Still think Cook should be captain - Root wanted Ballance and Dawson added and both were a waste of space , poor reviews as well - can see Root having a bit of a mare as Captain
		
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Hardly fair assumption two games into his tenancy. 78 in the first innings. Four catches in the match. There are issues at the top of the order but he's not solely to blame for the side selected. He can only give his view and leave it to the selectors


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## Jates12 (Jul 18, 2017)

Whats happened to england cricket is that previously in our test side the top 5 averaged 40+ for their careers. Cook, Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen and even Prior. That was only 5 years ago. Looking back 4 years ago if you swap Strauss for Root its the same.

Now look at the side, yes you still have Root and Cook but The other members of the Top 6? Jennings averages about 28 in his 4 tests, Balance averages 30 odd but is one of the worst technically ive seen for a while at test level. Bairstow just about averages 40 but isnt half the test player Prior was and stokes is a one day batsmen pretending to be a test player.

We just dont have a good enough batting line up at the moment and it feels like we have no depth in county cricket either because the standard is awful, quantified by Ballance averaging a ton but cant even move away from the crease in test cricket.


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## fundy (Jul 18, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Whats happened to england cricket is that previously in our test side the top 5 averaged 40+ for their careers. Cook, Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen and even Prior. That was only 5 years ago. Looking back 4 years ago if you swap Strauss for Root its the same.

Now look at the side, yes you still have Root and Cook but The other members of the Top 6? Jennings averages about 28 in his 4 tests, Balance averages 30 odd but is one of the worst technically ive seen for a while at test level. Bairstow just about averages 40 but isnt half the test player Prior was and stokes is a one day batsmen pretending to be a test player.

We just dont have a good enough batting line up at the moment and it feels like we have no depth in county cricket either because the standard is awful, quantified by Ballance averaging a ton but cant even move away from the crease in test cricket.
		
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whether you like it or not crickets changed greatly and to the detriment of many skills that would have been considered fundamental to succeeding in test match cricket.

for the players the big bucks is in the shortest not longest form of the game and hence that is where the majority are focussing their time on improving, working on skills that give them a broader range of ways of scoring in different situations, not in tightening a defensive technique to survive in test match scenarios

that said, judging someone after 4 tests a bit early to using an average, plenty who averaged 45+ over long careers didnt average 30 after 4 games! 

as for prior being better than bairstow, after 40 games bairstow has scored 400 more runs than prior had at that stage at a similar average, give me the ginger over the cheese any day of the week!


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## ColchesterFC (Jul 18, 2017)

fundy said:



			that said, judging someone after 4 tests a bit early to using an average, plenty who averaged 45+ over long careers didnt average 30 after 4 games!
		
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Agree with this. Graham Gooch's first 4 test scores were 0, 0, 6 and 31, but he went on to do OK for England.


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## Jates12 (Jul 18, 2017)

fundy said:



whether you like it or not crickets changed greatly and to the detriment of many skills that would have been considered fundamental to succeeding in test match cricket.

for the players the big bucks is in the shortest not longest form of the game and hence that is where the majority are focussing their time on improving, working on skills that give them a broader range of ways of scoring in different situations, not in tightening a defensive technique to survive in test match scenarios

that said, judging someone after 4 tests a bit early to using an average, plenty who averaged 45+ over long careers didnt average 30 after 4 games! 

as for prior being better than bairstow, after 40 games bairstow has scored 400 more runs than prior had at that stage at a similar average, give me the ginger over the cheese any day of the week!

Click to expand...

Prior was also a far better gloveman as well. Hasty with Jennings average I agree, but his technique is very suspect, you must of seen his dismissal yesterday! But on the other hand, people who are saying that Hales, Morgan and Malan should play Red Ball cricket are crazy becuase they are white ball specialists who dont have the temperament to play a test innings. So who is going to replace him at the top? Hameed? Cant even score a run at county level!

As I appreciate the game has changed, I think Michael Vaughan was correct, England players do not respect the 5 day game any more and its sad to see. Its disappointing to think that only 2 of our Batsmen could hang around to try and build an innings.


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## Piece (Jul 18, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Prior was also a far better gloveman as well. Hasty with Jennings average I agree, but his technique is very suspect, you must of seen his dismissal yesterday! But on the other hand, people who are saying that Hales, Morgan and Malan should play Red Ball cricket are crazy becuase they are white ball specialists who dont have the temperament to play a test innings. So who is going to replace him at the top? Hameed? Cant even score a run at county level!

As I appreciate the game has changed, I think Michael Vaughan was correct, England players do not respect the 5 day game any more and its sad to see. Its disappointing to think that only 2 of our Batsmen could hang around to try and build an innings.
		
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Prior wasn't that great behind the sticks. The last dedicated keeper I remember was Chris Read (correct me if I'm wrong!). The rest, including Alec S, were batsman first and gloveman second.

I can't argue that we have talented hitters, but very few test players. Most of those mentioned next in line are biffers, with maybe the exception of Stoneman.


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## Jates12 (Jul 18, 2017)

Piece said:



			Prior wasn't that great behind the sticks. The last dedicated keeper I remember was Chris Read (correct me if I'm wrong!). The rest, including Alec S, were batsman first and gloveman second.

I can't argue that we have talented hitters, but very few test players. Most of those mentioned next in line are biffers, with maybe the exception of Stoneman.
		
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Prior wasnt fantastic in fairness but i dont think JB is great! You look at the likes of De Kock He is mustard behind the sticks and a great bat! We have great hitters, thats why we are second in the world at T20, but because of that focus and pushing that towards kids getting involved, Test performance has slipped and its frustrating for the lovers of the pure form of the game like myself.


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## patricks148 (Jul 18, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Whats happened to england cricket is that previously in our test side the top 5 averaged 40+ for their careers. Cook, Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen and even Prior. That was only 5 years ago. Looking back 4 years ago if you swap Strauss for Root its the same.

Now look at the side, yes you still have Root and Cook but The other members of the Top 6? Jennings averages about 28 in his 4 tests, Balance averages 30 odd but is one of the worst technically ive seen for a while at test level. Bairstow just about averages 40 but isnt half the test player Prior was and stokes is a one day batsmen pretending to be a test player.

We just dont have a good enough batting line up at the moment and it feels like we have no depth in county cricket either because the standard is awful, quantified by Ballance averaging a ton but cant even move away from the crease in test cricket.
		
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I'm not sure having poor technique is the main obstacle for Balance, just look a some of the SA batsmen. Elgar who makes Grahame Smith seem classical more crab like than a crab and Amla  always looks to me like he is batting with his shoe laces tied together. But both get away with it and score runs, they have learn to make the best of there shortcomings. Balance is now what, on is 3rd/4th recall and has been found out and hasn't been able to find a way to overcome his lack of foot movement .


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## Jates12 (Jul 18, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			I'm not sure having poor technique is the main obstacle for Balance, just look a some of the SA batsmen. Elgar who makes Grahame Smith seem classical more crab like than a crab and Amla  always looks to me like he is batting with his shoe laces tied together. But both get away with it and score runs, they have learn to make the best of there shortcomings. Balance is now what, on is 3rd/4th recall and has been found out and hasn't been able to find a way to overcome his lack of foot movement .
		
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Amla averages 50 in Tests and ODIs with 51 Tons combined. I dont think you can say he has bad tekkers.

Also, Graeme Smith one was one of the best opening bats in the last 20 years, scored nearly 10000 test runs and scored 27 tons, you cant be slating his tekkers too.


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## patricks148 (Jul 18, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Amla averages 50 in Tests and ODIs with 51 Tons combined. I dont think you can say he has bad tekkers.

Also, Graeme Smith one was one of the best opening bats in the last 20 years, scored nearly 10000 test runs and scored 27 tons, you cant be slating his tekkers too.
		
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Yes thats my point. All have whats looks like a poor techniques, but both have outstanding records. if you were an international bowlers and saw those 3 on TV you would think no problem get them out.


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## Piece (Jul 18, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Prior wasnt fantastic in fairness but i dont think JB is great! You look at the likes of De Kock He is mustard behind the sticks and a great bat! We have great hitters, thats why we are second in the world at T20, but because of that focus and pushing that towards kids getting involved, Test performance has slipped and its frustrating for the lovers of the pure form of the game like myself.
		
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Yeah, can't argue about De Kock. 

Smith was a walking lbw candidate for the in-swinger, but when his eye was in, he was very difficult to get out.

Never thought Amla had dodgy footwork. When you're that good, it doesn't matter that much as he plays with so much time. Ballance always looks hurried.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 18, 2017)

Piece said:



			Prior wasn't that great behind the sticks. The last dedicated keeper I remember was Chris Read (correct me if I'm wrong!). The rest, including Alec S, were batsman first and gloveman second.

I can't argue that we have talented hitters, but very few test players. Most of those mentioned next in line are biffers, with maybe the exception of Stoneman.
		
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Prior was very poor as a keeper early in his career, but as he grew as a Test player his keeping really improved and he became a more than serviceable keeper. He was no James Foster (arguably the best keeper of his generation, saw him at Chelmsford standing up to Graham Napier which is just absolutely nuts) or Chris Read, but he did become a really good Test-quality keeper. Did help that his batting was superb as well though. 

I miss the days of Prior in the Test side, we had such a good team back then. Strauss, KP, Bell, Flintoff, Prior, Swann, Sidebottom, plus the lads like Cook, Jimmy and Broad who are still playing, what a side.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 18, 2017)

Confirmed there will be no Gary Ballance in the squad for the next Test. Fractured finger, might be able to return for the 4th.


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## Jates12 (Jul 18, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Confirmed there will be no Gary Ballance in the squad for the next Test. Fractured finger, might be able to return for the 4th.
		
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Thank God.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 19, 2017)

Who is next in line? I'm not really following county cricket this year.


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Who is next in line? I'm not really following county cricket this year.
		
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Two I've heard mentioned are Stoneman and Westley. They are top of order bats though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

Hopefully the next test line up will be 

Cook
Hamed 
Jennings
Root
Stoneman
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Plus one seamer


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hopefully the next test line up will be 

Cook
Hamed 
Jennings
Root
Stoneman
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Plus one seamer
		
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Just dont see how you can pick Hameed, he has 200 runs at 17 this year without a 50 in first class cricket, he will get another chance but it wont be here.


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hopefully the next test line up will be 

Cook
Hamed 
Jennings
Root
Stoneman
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Plus one seamer
		
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I think/hope:

Cook
Jennings
Root
Stoneman
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Rashid
Wood


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2017)

I expect it will be

Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Westley
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Ball 
Andersen

with the constant batting failures I cant see us going in with 6 bowlers again, Ballance def out, Wood rumoured to be carrying a heel injury again


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## Dan2501 (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hopefully the next test line up will be 

Cook
Hamed 
Jennings
Root
Stoneman
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Plus one seamer
		
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Hameed? He's been awful this year.

I'd go: 

Cook
Jennings
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Alli
Broad
Anderson
Wood

Our best results, as weird as it seems, have come with Moeen at 8, we should go back to it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

fundy said:



			Just dont see how you can pick Hameed, he has 200 runs at 17 this year without a 50 in first class cricket, he will get another chance but it wont be here.
		
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Ballance scored very well in first class cricket - think Hamed has the right temperament and can dig in , can't see them going for two new guys and they definitely need another batter


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## Dan2501 (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ballance scored very well in first class cricket - think Hamed has the right temperament and can dig in , can't see them going for two new guys and they definitely need another batter
		
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You just don't pick a guy who has absolutely zero runs just because of his temperament. He's not managed to dig in and get runs in CC, so how's he expected to get runs against Philander, Morkel and Rabada? Would be a crazy selection.

Stoneman would be a good pick. Scores at a decent rate, is used to batting on a tough track, has scored majority of his runs in Div 1 and more importantly is in good form. Malan offers something a bit different too, and is also in decent knick. Changes need to be made to this batting line-up and now's the time.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 19, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			You just don't pick a guy who has absolutely zero runs just because of his temperament. He's not managed to dig in and get runs in CC, so how's he expected to get runs against Philander, Morkel and Rabada? Would be a crazy selection.
		
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And opposed to two guys who have zero test experience against them


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## Junior (Jul 19, 2017)

Tha Ballance debate is a good one.  Anyone remember Amla when he first started his test career ?  Wristy as heck and a prime LBW candidate.  The selectors recognised his talent and he worked hard (the hardest trainer in the SA team by all accounts) to get taller at address and to learn to hit through mid-on as opposed to falling over and whipping the ball through mid wicket.  

Do England stick with Ballance and try to work with him ?  Or, do they chop and change like they did back in the Hick, Ramprakash and John Crawley days.  My own opinion fwiw, stick with him and get him down at 5 away from the new ball.  Bring in Stoneman as number 3, so effectively we have 3 openers. 

For those doubting Bairstowe, His record in the last 12 months is outstanding and his glovework is improving all the time.  There is no better keeper batsmen in the UK than him.  In 2016 he was the 2nd highest run scorer in test cricket, behind Joe Root) with 1470 at 58 avg.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And opposed to two guys who have zero test experience against them
		
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Does 3 Test matches worth of experience really mean anything? Think you're clutching at straws.


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## patricks148 (Jul 19, 2017)

time to dust off some of the oldies

Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan
Root
Pietersen
Stewart
Swan
stokes
Flintoff
S jones
Broad


lol in the bag


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## Junior (Jul 19, 2017)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Ballance scored very well in first class cricket - think Hamed has the right temperament and can dig in , can't see them going for two new guys and they definitely need another batter
		
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Hameed is playing for Formby in league cricket right now and is struggling to get the ball off the square.  He got a 30 and a 20 odd last week.  It'll be like throwing him to the lions.  I agree with you that he has got something, but , his time will come. 

I'd go.....

Cook, Jennings, Stoneman, Root, Ballance, Bairstowe, Stokes, Ali, Broad, Wood, Anderson


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## Dan2501 (Jul 19, 2017)

Junior - Ballance is out of the next Test. Who you picking in his place?


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## Junior (Jul 19, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Junior - Ballance is out of the next Test. Who you picking in his place?
		
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Hmmmmm, would appear Westley from Essex is the next cab off the rank.  He got a ton against them for the lions batting at 3 and is having a decent season for Essex averaging over 50 in FC cricket.  I'd go for him.   That said, Joe Denly might be the surprise call up.  he is having a worldy of a season for Kent (all be it in div 2).


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## Dan2501 (Jul 19, 2017)

Yeah, Westley is playing well, was torn between him and Malan. Westley could also get in for a bit of extra bowling if needed, especially if they're thinking of moving Moeen back down to 8 and dropping Dawson.


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## Jates12 (Jul 19, 2017)

At the moment Hameed is unselectable. I agree that Westley and Stoneman are the next in line. Or drop Dawson and pick both. We have 4 seamers, Moeen and Root; He should be getting told to turn his arm over if required, he is better than dawson anyway.

Anyone thought of Sam Northeast btw?


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			At the moment Hameed is unselectable. *I agree that Westley and Stoneman are the next in line. Or drop Dawson and pick both.* We have 4 seamers, Moeen and Root; He should be getting told to turn his arm over if required, he is better than dawson anyway.

Anyone thought of Sam Northeast btw?
		
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am also certain they will go this route for the Oval


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## Piece (Jul 19, 2017)

Interestingly, Rashid isn't being considered as an option. Can't see what he has done to be overlooked for Dawson. Anyone shed any light?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 19, 2017)

Piece said:



			Interestingly, Rashid isn't being considered as an option. Can't see what he has done to be overlooked for Dawson. Anyone shed any light?
		
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The chat on TMS is that the England set up believe he concedes too many runs. That only works if Dawson had kept the runs down. Unfortunately S.Africa went for him and scored well. If Dawson is conceding runs and not taking wickets then you may as well play Rashid as he is more likely to take wickets.


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## fundy (Jul 19, 2017)

Why all of a sudden do we need two spinners at home? 

If i was picking 2 (invariably in asia etc) then id add rashid but Ali doing a pretty decent job of late and surely 1 spinner enough in English conditions (albeit pitches are getting flatter i know)

Theres definitely a concern in the England set up about Rashids control, but then when hasnt there been about a wrist spinner!


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## Dan2501 (Jul 20, 2017)

Squad has been announced for the next Test. Westley and Malan named in the 13-man squad. Imagine they'll go:

Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes
Moeen
Broad
Wood
Anderson


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## fundy (Jul 20, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Squad has been announced for the next Test. Westley and Malan named in the 13-man squad. Imagine they'll go:

Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes
Moeen
Broad
Wood
Anderson
		
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looks about right

what day do we think Wood will break down and be out for the rest of the summer? Ill go for just before lunch on day 2 lol


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## Piece (Jul 20, 2017)

Squad is ok. Stoneman a little unlucky. Perhaps he'll make the Windies test squad if Jennings trips up. Root to bat at three, not exposing Westley or Malan, surely.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 20, 2017)

Root should bat 3 I think, but the BBC report states Westley will bat 3.


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## Piece (Jul 20, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Root should bat 3 I think, but the BBC report states Westley will bat 3.
		
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Coach Trev wants Root to bat at 3. Root doesn't want to it seems?


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## Wabinez (Jul 20, 2017)

Wes has batted 3 for Essex...why take him out of that zone.

Chuffed for him that he is selected and will play. Hope he scores some runs now!


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## fundy (Jul 26, 2017)

fundy said:



			looks about right

what day do we think Wood will break down and be out for the rest of the summer? Ill go for just before lunch on day 2 lol
		
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looks like hes not even going to make it to the starting line, who'd have thought it after playing back to back tests lol, not like England to mismanage a player with an injury is it


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## patricks148 (Jul 26, 2017)

Piece said:



			Coach Trev wants Root to bat at 3. Root doesn't want to it seems?
		
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i do find this odd, not so long ago he wanted to be an opener and was doing that for Yorkshire


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## TheDiablo (Jul 26, 2017)

TRJ, very good friend of mine is finally making debut, 2 tests too late IMO. Nearly gave up the pro route at 21 when he wasn't even the best in his family!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 26, 2017)

TheDiablo said:



			TRJ, very good friend of mine is finally making debut, 2 tests too late IMO. Nearly gave up the pro route at 21 when he wasn't even the best in his family!!
		
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Let's hope he has a good un &#128079;&#128079;.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2017)

TheDiablo said:



			TRJ, very good friend of mine is finally making debut, 2 tests too late IMO. Nearly gave up the pro route at 21 when he wasn't even the best in his family!!
		
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Hopefully he'll have a decent debut.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Let's hope he has a good un &#62543;&#62543;.
		
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Those emoji's were meant to be clapping hands but they look a bit rubbish. I hope you didn't take the hump or thought I was being sarcastic . I was in the same representative team as John Crawley for a spell back in the 80's, nice lad. It's great to see someone you know make it, it means more. Even better that you are still mates with him.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2017)

3 new caps handed out this morning. Westley, Malan and TRJ all playing. Good to see, should be a much better balanced side.


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## SirShankalot (Jul 27, 2017)

England could really do with having Steve Finn back to his best.


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## fundy (Jul 27, 2017)

SirShankalot said:



			England could really do with having Steve Finn back to his best.
		
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sadly never recovered from being ruined by prev Eng regime coaching!

pleased to see England have opted for the extra batsman, will require Stokes and maybe Root to shoulder some of the voers esp if things arent going to plan though


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## SirShankalot (Jul 27, 2017)

You're correct! Such a shame because he should have been England's next great bowler!


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2017)

Morkel bowling with some decent pace this morning. Couple of deliveries over 90mph already.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2017)

Duck for Jennings. Not convincing at all, looked like a deer in the headlights, the dismissal looked inevitable.


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## SirShankalot (Jul 27, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Duck for Jennings. Not convincing at all, looked like a deer in the headlights, the dismissal looked inevitable.
		
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He's just not Test Match quality!


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## fundy (Jul 27, 2017)

big Vern a joy to watch with the new ball, looks like hes bowling medium pace but rips apart poor technique in no time at all!!!

think if Id faced him Id have played and missed a dozen times then been caught at fly slip trying to hit him into next week


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2017)

McGrath and Philander would be an absolute nightmare to face first up. 

Westley off the mark with a nice flick off the pads.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2017)

Promising start from Westley. Played a couple of lovely shots in that Maharaj over, not afraid to get after it.


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## drewster (Jul 27, 2017)

Essex's finest keeping the ship afloat. Jennings out and Nick Browne in and we'll be fine going forward although the Essex title challenge may falter just a little !!!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 27, 2017)

Great quote seen on the BBC online cricket feed "great to see two men from Essex wearing white who are not on Love Island"


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## drewster (Jul 27, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Great quote seen on the BBC online cricket feed "great to see two men from Essex wearing white who are not on Love Island" 

Click to expand...

Excellent quote !!!  At least Westley and Cook aren't the orange Essex hybrid spawned from inside the M25 . Proper country boys these two. Cook used to play for Maldon and Westley Saffron Walden both quintessentially Essex towns.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2017)

Nah, Essex is all abat Dagenham and Brentwood init.

Shame for Westley, looked very promising. Certainly looked more at ease than Ballance has so far this summer.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 27, 2017)

That is a beauty from Philander and what a catch from De Kock. Huge wicket for SA. 

Time to see what Malan is about!


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## fundy (Jul 27, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			That is a beauty from Philander and what a catch from De Kock. Huge wicket for SA. 

Time to see what Malan is about!
		
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Philanders dodgy tummy saved England from being 100/5 or worse

routine catch made to look good by awful footwork that


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## Piece (Jul 27, 2017)

fundy said:



			Philanders dodgy tummy saved England from being 100/5 or worse

routine catch made to look good by awful footwork that
		
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To be fair, that original line was going down leg...some recent England keepers would have missed that!


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## Piece (Jul 27, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Nah, Essex is all abat Dagenham and Brentwood init.

Shame for Westley, looked very promising. Certainly looked more at ease than Ballance has so far this summer.
		
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Westley looked OK, more positive than Jennings. Bit too much leg side grip though for me.


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## Jates12 (Jul 28, 2017)

From the look of Malan's dismissal yesterday he just didnt pick the length. The shot that he tried to play was awful and he was rattled for pace. He is going to get that ball regularly in test cricket and he needs to learn to keep that out or he is going to have a short test career. Westley didnt look out of his depth at all, jennings is really struggling!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2017)

He is allowed to be nervous first match up. I didn't see it so I can only go off the descriptions online but I suspect my feet would be in treacle first few balls.

Jennings needs to go back to County cricket and get his confidence and foot movement back.


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## Jates12 (Jul 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			He is allowed to be nervous first match up. I didn't see it so I can only go off the descriptions online but I suspect my feet would be in treacle first few balls.

Jennings needs to go back to County cricket and get his confidence and foot movement back.
		
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TRJ faced the same bowling batting at 9 and has faired better in his first test also. He also got a toe rattler from rabada just know that he kept out... I just dont think Malan is good enough for Test cricket unfortunately.


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2017)

sounds like Philanders off to hospital, done for the day if not the test


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## Dan2501 (Jul 28, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			TRJ faced the same bowling batting at 9 and has faired better in his first test also. He also got a toe rattler from rabada just know that he kept out... I just dont think Malan is good enough for Test cricket unfortunately.
		
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Bit harsh after 1 17 ball innings. Malan's incredibly talented, and I think you have to give him a bit more of a chance that instantly dismissing him after getting beaten by one very good yorker.


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2017)

stunning innings from Stokes, opening his shoulders to the spinner now


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## Jates12 (Jul 28, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Bit harsh after 1 17 ball innings. Malan's incredibly talented, and I think you have to give him a bit more of a chance that instantly dismissing him after getting beaten by one very good yorker.
		
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I do not disagree that he is very talented but his game is geared to ODI and T20 stuff, I know he has got runs at First Class level but I just dont think he is good enough for Test Match cricket. I didnt think he was good enough before and I dont now, Just my opinion mate.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 28, 2017)

I'd rather give a bloke a fair crack of the whip before judging it, but that's just me.

That's the way to get to a ton. Stokes is amazing. What a player.


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## Jates12 (Jul 28, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			I'd rather give a bloke a fair crack of the whip before judging it, but that's just me.

That's the way to get to a ton. Stokes is amazing. What a player.
		
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Ive not said that he doesnt deserve a chance, what im saying is that if he doesnt learn to keep out those deliveries its going to be a short career at test level as a number 5. I dont think he is good enough and until he proves me wrong that will still be my opinion. Stokes is a class act, not many in the world better batting at number 7.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2017)

You may well be right but a tail ender is not expected to make runs so can bat without worries. A batsman has to make runs so tension may have got the better of him. We will need to see him in the next innings and another match before we can start forming a judgement at that level. You may be right straight away of course, I haven't seen enough of him.

Stokes, a bit more than useful to be coming in where he does. Big improvement in his batting and a genuinely class player now.


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2017)

Saffers turn for a spineless display with the bat, albeit in helpful conditions. Cook and Stokes innings looking better by the minute!

some debut for TRJ, hope he gets the michelle


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2017)

TheDiablo said:



			TRJ, very good friend of mine is finally making debut, 2 tests too late IMO. Nearly gave up the pro route at 21 when he wasn't even the best in his family!!
		
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Your mate will be grinning tonight &#128513;. Blinder &#127867;&#127867;&#128513;


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2017)

fundy said:



			some debut for TRJ, hope he gets the michelle
		
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You've got me. What's a Michelle?


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You've got me. What's a Michelle?
		
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showing my age lol, a michelle pfeiffer


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2017)

looks like Philander is spending the night in hospital with a viral infection


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 28, 2017)

Ha ha. Thing is I played a lot of cricket when I was younger but it was before the Pfeif. I packed in early so never came across that one.

The only one I could think of was Michelle Mone, the Ultimo bra lady. I couldn't work out the link but at least she is a pleasant thought so it wasn't a wasted 5 minutes &#128513;.


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## fundy (Jul 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Ha ha. Thing is I played a lot of cricket when I was younger but it was before the Pfeif. I packed in early so never came across that one.

The only one I could think of was Michelle Mone, the Ultimo bra lady. I couldn't work out the link but at least she is a pleasant thought so it wasn't a wasted 5 minutes &#128513;.
		
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haha you want another random name to look into


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 28, 2017)

Good performance by England in ideal bowling conditions. Hope Roland-Jones can get the final wicket assuming Philander is still in hospital


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## TheDiablo (Jul 29, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Your mate will be grinning tonight &#128513;. Blinder &#127867;&#127867;&#128513;
		
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Yeah what turn up for him! He's got us a bucket load of tickets for tomorrow, all going up to hopefully see him pick up a few in the second innings!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 29, 2017)

England currently 68-1. Westley is driving beautifully, looks very at home. 

Jennings looks as though he doesn't know which end of the bat to hold. Totally lacking in confidence. Hopefully he can scrap about, hit a 4 and it will click again for him.

I was listening to Graham Smith on tms this morning. He was talking about an innings against England where they had him on toast. Anderson threw in a bouncer that he hooked for 4 and that cleared his head. He went on to score 150. Jennings needs that 4 ball right now.


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## Karl102 (Jul 29, 2017)

TheDiablo said:



			Yeah what turn up for him! He's got us a bucket load of tickets for tomorrow, all going up to hopefully see him pick up a few in the second innings!
		
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Glad he got his 5 for! He bowled really well!
Enjoy tomorrow! Hope the weather is good for you!


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## Jates12 (Jul 31, 2017)

Jennings looked scratchy yesterday and got one that popped off a left but fair play to him for hanging in there and accumulating.

Malan, gets too side on when playing the Right arm seamers that are moving the ball back into him and he cant get the bat across the front pad to play the shots, thats why he is getting caught on the back pad and cant play the balls that are coming back into him, anything on the pads should be meat and drink to a left hander but he cant seem to play it. Needs to iron that out if he is to hang around.

Westley played a great knock, really built his innings with patience. Good support from the other boys aswell, Bairstow, stokes, root but its expected of them.

Good start with the ball yesterday too, stokes bowled a couple of crackers. Hopefully we can rattle through them this morning!


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## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2017)

Seems like Westley looked good again, was really impressed from what I saw of him in the first innings actually. Kevin Pietersen was impressed too. Impressed with his head position and the way he plays his shots through the leg side (like KP does) with a straight bat. 

Hopefully we'll wrap it up pretty quickly this morning!


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## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2017)

TRJ turning it on again. On a hat-trick!


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## fundy (Jul 31, 2017)

thats how you end a test match, a hat trick via DRS, great stuff Moeen

England been good in this test, Saffers, Elgar apart, been pretty poor


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## upsidedown (Jul 31, 2017)

Fantastic end


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## Dan2501 (Jul 31, 2017)

Great win and what a way to finish it. Hopefully we'll win the series in Manchester later this week!

Give this a listen, hilarious stuff:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05b5j5t


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## patricks148 (Jul 31, 2017)

fundy said:



			thats how you end a test match, a hat trick via DRS, great stuff Moeen

England been good in this test, Saffers, Elgar apart, been pretty poor
		
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as plumb  as you will ever see that LBW, not sure why the OFU didn't stick the finger up


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## fundy (Jul 31, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			as plumb  as you will ever see that LBW, not sure why the OFU didn't stick the finger up
		
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horrendous decision, that or he was just building up the tension lol


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## patricks148 (Jul 31, 2017)

fundy said:



			horrendous decision, that or he was just building up the tension lol
		
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just as well England had a review left


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## IanM (Jul 31, 2017)

Love the Press take on this..............

1st Test:  SA must be rubbish
2nd Test: England are rubbish
3rd Test: See, we told you SA were rubbish!
:whoo:


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 31, 2017)

IanM, two decent teams but no more. We could easily collapse at Old Trafford and it goes 2-2.

I was in the car all day, 9hr 20min round trip &#128543;, and heard the Boycott wind up in full and live. Really very funny and everyone paid their parts beautifully. The best part for me was when Aggers starting talking about how worthless the commemorative plates were with headingley on them. Worth a listen if you haven't caught it yet.


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## Junior (Jul 31, 2017)

Funny series with each match being won convincingly.   Cooks 88 and his partnership with Westly in the first innings against Morkel (who was OUTSTANDING) and co was invaluable.  To get through that first new ball was vital.   

I though ugh all the bowlers did well and TRJ's lines were very impressive.  Whilst Jennings 40 odd was scratchy I think England need to persevere.  Form is temporary and all that and I don't think it's good to change willy nilly.  

Looking forward to going to OT this Friday to see how it all plays out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 31, 2017)

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbctms/status/892006915064115201

:rofl:


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## Pathetic Shark (Aug 1, 2017)

I really cannot stand Boycott, the ultimate second-guesser.  The BBC only employ him because he is a buffoon.

But that wind-up Aggers pulled was an absolute masterpiece.


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## fundy (Aug 4, 2017)

no Philander a massive blow to SA here, Morris out too leaves their attack looking very threadbare


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 4, 2017)

On the basis that Jennings looks shot who is next in line to open? Whoever it is will get a nice softener against the West Indies before getting bashed in Australia so they need to have a decent technique. Ideally it would be a right handed batsman to balance out Cook and mess up the rhythm of the bowlers. Suggestions?


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## fundy (Aug 4, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On the basis that Jennings looks shot who is next in line to open? Whoever it is will get a nice softener against the West Indies before getting bashed in Australia so they need to have a decent technique. Ideally it would be a right handed batsman to balance out Cook and mess up the rhythm of the bowlers. Suggestions?
		
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Wouldnt be surprised to see him get the WI series still (Esp if can get a few for Durham in the meantime), if not you'd think it will be Stoneman (another lefty). The only other consideration you'd think would be if Hameed finally got some runs for Lancs. Outside that a return to Sam Robson i guess a longshot but have used up most of their potential options already


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## Jates12 (Aug 4, 2017)

Failures again from Malan and Jennings. Shocker.


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## fundy (Aug 4, 2017)

been a really good days cricket, something for everyone. morkel got to feel pretty hard done by, bowled beautifully. feels like saffers have let england get a few too many again albeit that peach from rabada levels it up a fair bit

and a nightwatchman for your number 8? seriously?


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## Don Barzini (Aug 4, 2017)

I'm heading along to Old Trafford tomorrow for the second day. Could be a good one. Things are delicately poised at the moment.


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## Don Barzini (Aug 5, 2017)

Great day out. Three overs to go. Three sheets to the
wind here! The day belongs to England!!!!!


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## Junior (Aug 5, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On the basis that Jennings looks shot who is next in line to open? Whoever it is will get a nice softener against the West Indies before getting bashed in Australia so they need to have a decent technique. Ideally it would be a right handed batsman to balance out Cook and mess up the rhythm of the bowlers. Suggestions?
		
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fundy said:



			Wouldnt be surprised to see him get the WI series still (Esp if can get a few for Durham in the meantime), if not you'd think it will be Stoneman (another lefty). The only other consideration you'd think would be if Hameed finally got some runs for Lancs. Outside that a return to Sam Robson i guess a longshot but have used up most of their potential options already
		
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I was there yesterday.  Jennings actually looked very composed and solid against a new ball that was jagging around.  Nicked off to a good ball but like he had a lot of time.  

Malan on the other hand.....looked nervy and out of his depth.  Wafted at quite a few before getting out.  I think Stoneman should have got the nod ahead of him.


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 5, 2017)

Junior, good to hear your comments. Watching on tv and listening to pundits can distort your views. I hope Jennings can pull through as we need an opener alongside Cook. It would be nice to see him take a decent front foot step though, but I'm old school like that &#128513;.


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 5, 2017)

Junior said:



			I was there yesterday.  Jennings actually looked very composed and solid against a new ball that was jagging around.  Nicked off to a good ball but like he had a lot of time.  

Malan on the other hand.....looked nervy and out of his depth.  Wafted at quite a few before getting out.  I think Stoneman should have got the nod ahead of him.
		
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I wonder if Stoneman will get a chance against the West Indies though


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## Junior (Aug 6, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Junior, good to hear your comments. Watching on tv and listening to pundits can distort your views. I hope Jennings can pull through as we need an opener alongside Cook. It would be nice to see him take a decent front foot step though, but I'm old school like that &#62977;.
		
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I agree.  He needs a bigger stride !   The other thing is that his bat seemed to be angled towards the gully a bit to much for my liking.  

The interesting thing is what what they do when Woakes is fit.....does he come in straight for Malan, or would they drop TRJ and play an extra batter.


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## richart (Aug 6, 2017)

Junior said:



			I agree.  He needs a bigger stride !   The other thing is that his bat seemed to be angled towards the gully a bit to much for my liking.  

The interesting thing is what what they do when Woakes is fit.....does he come in straight for Malan, or would they drop TRJ and play an extra batter.
		
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Woakes looks likely to get more runs than the batsmen that have been brought in. Jennings just seems to let the ball hit the bat in defence. Think he should look to push the ball into gaps, take the single and get off strike. Be more positive in defence. 

Westley plays like Bairstow did when he first came into the side. Strong right hand so his off side drives are ending up through the on side. How has he got to 28 and no one corrected his technique ? Top level he will get found out. Bairstow was much younger when he first came into the side, and has worked hard to correct his problem, and plays much better through the covers, mid off now. In test matches you don't get many freebies on your pads.

Not sure about Malan. He needs to be positive and play his strokes in the middle order, as defensively he looks suspect.  A good innings could be the making of him, and he needs a longer run,. Can't judge on three innings. Not the strongest South African team, but their attack of Morkel, Rabada and Philander is very useful, and would test the best batsmen. Their spinner is very tidy as well, with few feebies.Think there may be a few easier runs to be had against the Windies.:mmm:


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## Karl102 (Aug 6, 2017)

Few interstitial comparisons between Jennings and Trescothic today. I could see some of what they were saying. I would stick with him against the Windies and bring in Stobeman for Malan.
The Woaks/TRJ argument is tougher. Woakes is skiddy quick and swings the ball where as TRJ hits the deck harder and will get more bounce..... If batting comes into it, (which has been in the past) then I think a fit again Woaks will get the nod....


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## Lord Tyrion (Aug 7, 2017)

Trescothick would hit through the ball. Jennings lets the ball hit the bat. One was pro active the other not. Tenuous comparisons between the two.


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## Bunkermagnet (Aug 7, 2017)

Hammed will replace Jennings without doubt.
The problem is that on one hand the ECB favourites get to keep their places, and you do need some sort of run to show yourself, but non favourites who are also in great form don't get the chance to show. 
Sometimes I do think cricket needs to take a small leaf out of the Rugby book and actually be a little more proactive on dropping out of form players for those in form to strengthen competition for places and hopefully improve the collective scores and results.


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## Karl102 (Aug 7, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Trescothick would hit through the ball. Jennings lets the ball hit the bat. One was pro active the other not. Tenuous comparisons between the two.
		
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If you watch Trescothic, he was reknown for letting the ball come to him and have a short compact punchy style that I agree is more powerful than Jennings, I could see a little in what they were saying.

Hameed is playing for lancs this week. He has been playing league cricket in the Liverpool league and has struggled there... as a lancs fan I hope they pick him and he does well....


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2017)

pretty comfortable win in the end after a little scare earlier in the afternoon 

good start for Roots captaincy (hes still got some to learn too) and the win has been despite the top order failing more often than not

the strength is still very clearly in the middle order batting and going forward the all rounders in the middle (stokes, ali, bairstow, woakes) will continue to provide the main strength in the team.

the bowling look ok albeit doesnt appear to be huge amounts of depth and andersen and broad cant go on forever (woakes will return and TRJ looks a decent option, Wood needs to be managed a lot better!)

that leaves the top order batting where the improvement needs to come. cook has battled well and root is world class, all the other spots are up for grabs still


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2017)

First test in Aus?

Cook 
?????
?????
Root
?????
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Squad wise you can add Wood, TRJ, Buttler and probably Rashid. That leaves 4 maybe 5 batter spots to fill, good luck working out who they are! Westley, Hameed, Stoneman, Jennings, Malan all got plenty to prove for sure


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## patricks148 (Aug 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			First test in Aus?

Cook 
?????
?????
Root
?????
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Squad wise you can add Wood, TRJ, Buttler and probably Rashid. That leaves 4 maybe 5 batter spots to fill, good luck working out who they are! Westley, Hameed, Stoneman, Jennings, Malan all got plenty to prove for sure
		
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half of the problem could be solved my Root dropping down to 3, no idea why he want to come in at 4, as he appears to pretty much be in with the first half hour anyway.

i still think the bowling lacks a bit of pace, not sure if there is anyone in CC with any sort of pace


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			half of the problem could be solved my Root dropping down to 3, no idea why he want to come in at 4, as he appears to pretty much be in with the first half hour anyway.

i still think the bowling lacks a bit of pace, not sure if there is anyone in CC with any sort of pace
		
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the out and out pace comes from Wood if you can get and keep him fit, should be only ever bowling in short sharp bursts and shouldnt be playing back to back tests, pretty sure there is no one else as quick in county cricket (unless you count Mills who is only fit to play T20)


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## patricks148 (Aug 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			the out and out pace comes from Wood if you can get and keep him fit, should be only ever bowling in short sharp bursts and shouldnt be playing back to back tests, pretty sure there is no one else as quick in county cricket (unless you count Mills who is only fit to play T20)
		
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but seems to struggle fitness wise, i suppose Pluncket is getting on a bit he was capable of 90MPH and Finns not been mentioned at all the whole summer so must be well out of favor.

if Woaks is fit and wood, you could just drop everyone down and then just the opening spot to fill.


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## Paperboy (Aug 7, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			but seems to struggle fitness wise, i suppose Pluncket is getting on a bit he was capable of 90MPH and Finns not been mentioned at all the whole summer so must be well out of favor.

if Woaks is fit and wood, you could just drop everyone down and then just the opening spot to fill.
		
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There are the Overton brothers at Somerset and the Curran brothers at Surrey as the up and coming youngesters!


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2017)

patricks148 said:



			but seems to struggle fitness wise, i suppose Pluncket is getting on a bit he was capable of 90MPH and Finns not been mentioned at all the whole summer so must be well out of favor.

if Woaks is fit and wood, you could just drop everyone down and then just the opening spot to fill.
		
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think theyre loathe to do this after starting this summer with Dawson (ie the extra bowler approach) but may find they have little choice if theyre gonna get the best side on the park. would allow them to accomodate Wood and not overbowl him (if he ever gets back to full fitness)


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## Liverpoolphil (Aug 7, 2017)

fundy said:



			First test in Aus?

Cook 
?????
?????
Root
?????
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Squad wise you can add Wood, TRJ, Buttler and probably Rashid. That leaves 4 maybe 5 batter spots to fill, good luck working out who they are! Westley, Hameed, Stoneman, Jennings, Malan all got plenty to prove for sure
		
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Cook 
Stoneman or Jennings - all depends on the Windies Series
Westly - unless he has a mare in the Windies can see him going
Root
Ballance - think once fit he will get another chance further down the order
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Andersen

Would also take  Buttler , TRJ , Rashid , C Overton ,Robson  plus one more put of Malan , Jennings , Hamed


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## fundy (Aug 7, 2017)

Paperboy said:



			There are the Overton brothers at Somerset and the Curran brothers at Surrey as the up and coming youngesters!
		
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Plunkett still got wheels and they could pick far worse tourists for this winter, Finn on the fringes still but not the same bowler he used to be since they remodelled his action/run up

not sure I see a test quick in the brothers, certainly not the Currans who will prob play some white ball cricket for England, certainly none of them are ready yet or would be for this winters tour imo

Sams got 14 wickets at 50 a piece in 9 games and Tom 20 at 37 a piece in 8 games

Craig Overton has 24 at 25 in 8 games, Jamie has 12 at 26 in 5 games

Maybe theyll find Jofra Archer a UK passport


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## Dan2501 (Aug 7, 2017)

I'd probably go:

Cook
Hameed
Hales
Root
Westley
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson

Hameed is back in the Lancs team and looking like making a hundred on his return (currently 77* at the end of play) so if he finds some form he could work his way in, and the form Hales is in right now and the international pedigree he has I'd bring him in, bat him at 3 and move Westley (who to me looks more like a middle order player) down to 5.


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## richart (Aug 7, 2017)

I would move Stokes, Bairstow and Alli up a place, bring back Woakes at 8, Rashid at 9 and Broad and Anderson. Doesn't weaken the batting to me, and see no problem with six bowlers. Just happens that two of our best batsmen can bowl. I do think Stokes will become a top batsmen, and bowl less over the years. He hardly bowled in the last test, and he wouldn't get in the team as just a bowler. Only taken just over two wickets a game in his whole England career. 

I would take Plunkett as he offers something different. Can bowl quick, and gets a lot of bounce. Also useful lower order batsmen.Think he suits Australian pitches more than a skiddy bowler like Wood.

We are really short of decent batsmen though. The ones we have tried recently all seem to have obvious weaknesses, which top bowlers will pick up on. Could do with a couple of right handers as well, to break up all the lefties. Would Ian Bell have done worse than all the ones we have tried in the last two years ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 7, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			I'd probably go:

Cook
Hameed
Hales
Root
Westley
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ
Broad
Anderson

Hameed is back in the Lancs team and looking like making a hundred on his return (currently 77* at the end of play) so if he finds some form he could work his way in, and the form Hales is in right now and the international pedigree he has I'd bring him in, bat him at 3 and move Westley (who to me looks more like a middle order player) down to 5.
		
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I agree but would like to see Hameed get a run of Lancs games and have a good spell in the middle with the bat first. If he can do that I think he's a good fit. I would like to see Hales in against the West Indies and get use to playing international cricket before touring in the winter


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## Karl102 (Aug 8, 2017)

The quality of bowling attacks in the County Championship really isn't as good as it used to be. You see Hammed and Hales getting racks of runs. I'm not saying they are pooor players, it may be worth giving them a go. Rich's point about Bell is a good one. He is a class act and has done it at the highest level. I know all about looking forward and not back, I'm not sure how old Bell is, but a bit of experience with him and Cook may not be a bad thing in Oz!


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2017)

Hales has at least done it at International level as well though, unlike guys like Ballance who have failed everytime they've been given an opportunity. Slot Hales in at 3 or 5 and give him a go. At least International attacks will have a bit of fear when he walks to the crease, they won't have that with Ballance, or Malan, or Westley, or Jennings right now.  Since his last Test he's continued to score big runs in ODi's/T20's and for Notts, chuck him back in.


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## Jates12 (Aug 8, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Hales has at least done it at International level as well though, unlike guys like Ballance who have failed everytime they've been given an opportunity. Slot Hales in at 3 or 5 and give him a go. At least International attacks will have a bit of fear when he walks to the crease, they won't have that with Ballance, or Malan, or Westley, or Jennings right now.  Since his last Test he's continued to score big runs in ODi's/T20's and for Notts, chuck him back in.
		
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Big Difference in test runs than T20 and ODi Dan!


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2017)

Oh of course, but at least he's scoring consistently good runs against International quality attacks, and doing that alongside getting runs in red-ball cricket for Notts. Same cannot be said for Jennings, Ballance or Malan.


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## richart (Aug 8, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			Hales has at least done it at International level as well though, unlike guys like Ballance who have failed everytime they've been given an opportunity. Slot Hales in at 3 or 5 and give him a go. At least International attacks will have a bit of fear when he walks to the crease, they won't have that with Ballance, or Malan, or Westley, or Jennings right now.  Since his last Test he's continued to score big runs in ODi's/T20's and for Notts, chuck him back in.
		
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In his defence Ballance did get a load of runs when he fisrt played for England. Four tons and averaged somewhere round 60 in his first 17 tests. Unfortunately since then his poor technique has been found out, and not sure he has sorted it out yet.


Can't remember a period when we have had so few decent batsmen coming through. If you look at Jennings, Westley, Hales and Malan's county records they are not great. Averaging mid 30's, when the majority of England batsmen over the last twenty years have been averaging well into the 40's. Bell, Pietersen, Strauss, Cook, Root, Bairstow etc. There are very few English batsmen around with decent county records, so probably why they struggle at test level.


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## IanM (Aug 8, 2017)

Indeed - certainly Jennings, Westley, Hales and Malan have all yet to convince they have what it takes to go to Australia and do well in an Ashes Series....  but confidence is contagious... one good innings can make a career!


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## richart (Aug 8, 2017)

IanM said:



			Indeed - certainly Jennings, Westley, Hales and Malan have all yet to convince they have what it takes to go to Australia and do well in an Ashes Series....  but confidence is contagious... one good innings can make a career!
		
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If they don't score runs against the Windies, they are not going to score many down under. To be fair the pitches have not been great for batting against South Africa, and only Root got a load of runs. South African attack was pretty good, definitely their strength. It was the obvious faults in technique that was worrying, and trying to change in mid test is unlikely to work. How do batsmen get to mid/late 20's and not get picked up on their faults. Someone like Bairstow had problems when he first played, but he was much younger and able to sort it out through hard work over a decent period.


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## fundy (Aug 8, 2017)

Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Cook and Ali batted 32 times between them for 2 hundreds and 12 fifties
Jennings, Westley, Malan, Ballance, Dawson batted 24 times and not a single innings of 50

It wasnt easy but not one of them made as high a score as Broad did! Not sure runs against the West Indies will tell too much apart from provide some short term confidence, hard to see any on that list getting hatfuls down under this winter thats for sure


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## Dan2501 (Aug 8, 2017)

A bit of a shame for guys like Westley and Malan. Unlikely to be dropped as they've hardly been given a chance, but they're in a bit of a catch-22 for the Windies series. If they make runs they'll be written off as "ah, but the West Indies are rubbish", and if they fail they're dropped anyway, they literally can't win. It's the Ravi Bopara effect.


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## richart (Aug 8, 2017)

fundy said:



			Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Cook and Ali batted 32 times between them for 2 hundreds and 12 fifties
Jennings, Westley, Malan, Ballance, Dawson batted 24 times and not a single innings of 50

It wasnt easy but not one of them made as high a score as Broad did! Not sure runs against the West Indies will tell too much apart from provide some short term confidence, hard to see any on that list getting hatfuls down under this winter thats for sure
		
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Westley got a 50, but take your point. Not an easy attack, or pitches to start you career on though. Runs against the Windies will get players on a tour to Australia. With the lack of decent batsmen coming through, runs against Windies could keep you in for years.


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## High wide and handsome (Aug 8, 2017)

richart said:



			Westley got a 50, but take your point. Not an easy attack, or pitches to start you career on though. Runs against the Windies will get players on a tour to Australia. With the lack of decent batsmen coming through, runs against Windies could keep you in for years.

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Westley and malan should get more game time. Malan has only had 4 innings, and got a couple of jaffas so cant take too much from that. Westley looks like he could work at 3 and without any other serious contenders will go to aus if he gets any sort of score vs WI.

I would swop stoneman for jennings and leave the rest as is for the next test, with an eye on woakes coming back in once he gets a bit more match time after injury.

In an ideal world my team for first aus test would be thus:

Cook
Stoneman
Westley
Root
Malan / Hales /Boycotts mum
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Jimmy


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## Karl102 (Aug 8, 2017)

I think they fancy TRJ to do a similar job Chris Tremlett did a few years back. He had a good series against the Aussies in Oz and they rated him highly. Warne wasn't surprised as he had played with him at Hampshire, but he was tall strong and hit the deck hard.... With the kookaburra ball not swinging after 10 overs and Anderson and Broad buttoned on to do the new ball work Woaks may struggle, but then again, he can bat.... tough decisions....


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## Jates12 (Aug 8, 2017)

High said:



			Westley and malan should get more game time. *Malan has only had 4 innings, and got a couple of jaffas* so cant take too much from that. Westley looks like he could work at 3 and without any other serious contenders will go to aus if he gets any sort of score vs WI.
		
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Malan got 1 good ball. wafted outside the off stump on the second innings at OT and 2 Lbw's to the ball moving in which he cant play because he has poor technique. He isnt good enough. Im not a hales fan at all but he is better than Malan, bat him @ 5.


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## richart (Aug 8, 2017)

Karl102 said:



			I think they fancy TRJ to do a similar job Chris Tremlett did a few years back. He had a good series against the Aussies in Oz and they rated him highly. Warne wasn't surprised as he had played with him at Hampshire, but he was tall strong and hit the deck hard.... With the kookaburra ball not swinging after 10 overs and Anderson and Broad buttoned on to do the new ball work Woaks may struggle, but then again, he can bat.... tough decisions....
		
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 i think TBJ is a typical Englsih seamer, that we used to bring in when playing at Headingley. I don't think he has the pace or bounce for Australia, and can't see him getting much movemnet with the kookaburra. I think Finn should go as he has height and can crank it up. Plunkett as well. Woakes was Englands best bowler in the previous year before he got injured, and will return when fit. He also is the best bat out of the bowlers, which would allow Stokes, Bairstow and Alli to move up a place.


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## High wide and handsome (Aug 8, 2017)

Jates12 said:



			Malan got 1 good ball. wafted outside the off stump on the second innings at OT and 2 Lbw's to the ball moving in which he cant play because he has poor technique. He isnt good enough. Im not a hales fan at all but he is better than Malan, bat him @ 5.
		
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Wouldnt object to hales, its not as though we have that many options tbf, which is why i'd give malam at least one more test.


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## fundy (Aug 10, 2017)

Stoneman, Crane and Woakes in the squad for WI series, Jennings, Finn and Dawson miss out (cant have too many arguments!)

Not sure I see Crane ahead of Rashid and be amazed if they took him to Aus instead but stranger things have happened


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## Karl102 (Aug 10, 2017)

fundy said:



			Stoneman, Crane and Woakes in the squad for WI series, Jennings, Finn and Dawson miss out (cant have too many arguments!)

Not sure I see Crane ahead of Rashid and be amazed if they took him to Aus instead but stranger things have happened
		
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Saw the Stneman and Woakes thing, but wouldn't have put Crane in. Does he offer more control than Rashid? I haven't seen enough of him to see... bet Rashid is gutted!

Edit*** 

Cranes played 5 Championship games, 180 overs taken 16 wickets at 40 + average... one 5 wicket haul.... :mmm:

Rashid, 6 games, 103 overs , 9 wickets at 50 odd...


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## richart (Aug 10, 2017)

Karl102 said:



			Saw the Stneman and Woakes thing, but wouldn't have put Crane in. Does he offer more control than Rashid? I haven't seen enough of him to see... bet Rashid is gutted!

Edit*** 

Cranes played 5 Championship games, 180 overs taken 16 wickets at 40 + average... one 5 wicket haul.... :mmm:

Rashid, 6 games, 103 overs , 9 wickets at 50 odd...
		
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Rashid's bowling in limited over cricket has been much improved. Seems to have got rid of the one or two long hops an over. Not seen him bowl in the championship, but imagine wickets have not been great for spin in the north ? Better in the south ?


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