# New lockdown will courses close?



## Doodle (Oct 31, 2020)

Boris is about to announce a new one month long (maybe more) lockdown which will see clubhouse's have to close.
How about the course's?
Will they stay open?


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## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2020)

I think not, but no evidence to back that up. Non essential travel?


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

Depends on what the “exercise” restrictions are


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## williamalex1 (Oct 31, 2020)

Possibly back to playing in 2 balls [ crystal  ] and limiting travel distances


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## chrisd (Oct 31, 2020)

Just as my form has started to return !


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## Fish (Oct 31, 2020)

No exercise restrictions from what I’ve read, the clubhouses will close again, but outside sports/ exercise is being ‘encouraged’.


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## USER1999 (Oct 31, 2020)

Fish said:



			No exercise restrictions from what I’ve read, the clubhouses will close again, but outside sports/ exercise is being ‘encouraged’.
		
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But may be only with one person outside your household.


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## robinthehood (Oct 31, 2020)

Yeah back to 2 balls if it does stay open.


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## Tongo (Oct 31, 2020)

Some of the courses down here could do with a month off to dry out what with the amount or rain we've had! 

(There's a lot of poorly draining courses in my neck of the woods)


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## Ssshank (Oct 31, 2020)

I can't see any reason for courses to close.

They have the appropriate strategies in place to be covid safe, but with this government who knows...


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2020)

No idea but guessing they will shut. Given how wet it was out there today that may not be a bad thing. I am guessing we'll go back to the same level of lockdown as before with the exception of schools staying open


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## Fish (Oct 31, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			But may be only with one person outside your household.
		
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Yes, clubhouses will close again and we’re back to 2-balls.


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## jim8flog (Oct 31, 2020)

If understood what was being hinted at I would agree with Fish

Back to 2 balls


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## Neilds (Oct 31, 2020)

As golf wasn’t mentioned at all during the PMs news conference, anything we say now is just speculation. Let’s just wait for something concrete from the official powers that be


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## hovis (Oct 31, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yes, clubhouses will close again and we’re back to 2-balls.
		
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I'll take that


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## Carpfather1 (Oct 31, 2020)

I think golf courses will be off limits like they’ve done to us in Wales ,it’s to stop people travelling ,I don’t agree with it but had good news we get our golf back on the 10th of November


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## Fish (Oct 31, 2020)

hovis said:



			I'll take that
		
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Seems some think we can’t travel to exercise, I personally haven’t heard that, so looking for confirmation of that as that changes things.


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## Imurg (Oct 31, 2020)

Like last time, it'll take a day or two for the fine detail to emerge.
England Golf will have booked a phone call already....


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## davemc1 (Oct 31, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Just as my form has started to return !
		
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I’m with you there, I was just about hit 45 pts. Bleedin tories 
🤣


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## garyinderry (Oct 31, 2020)

No golf in Wales or ireland. 

I wouldn't hold your breath for it to be open in England.


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## KenL (Oct 31, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yes, clubhouses will close again and we’re back to 2-balls.
		
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Thats what I thought when he said you could exercise outdoors with one other person.


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## Doodle (Oct 31, 2020)

I will reluctantly accept having to play as a 2x ball & no clubhouse, but if the courses shut again I'm of the opinion that will do more harm than good from an exercise & mental health point of view.
I also don't believe that the lockdown will be lifted in all area's in early Dec.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2020)

Will be interesting to see how 2 balls work (should they be allowed). Already a mad scramble to get a tee time in four balls but I assume more slots will be released (and back to 8 minute gaps instead of 10). Lets see what England Golf say. On a wider scale I wonder how many clubs are clinging on commercially by their finger tips and whether this will tip a few over the edge. Hopefully not


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## North Mimms (Oct 31, 2020)

No chance to improve my new WHS handicap....


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## Deleted member 3432 (Oct 31, 2020)

We should be thankful we are going to be in a position to play at all.

My shift partner is still no nearer to restarting rugby and is doing far less moaning than the majority on here who are lucky enough to get a game but then can't spend the rest of the day in the clubhouse reciting their tales of woe...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 31, 2020)

Ah well - now cant play our winter league 4BBB matches in Nov.  in the scheme of things I think I can put up with that...😐


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 31, 2020)

Traminator said:



			It was clear pretty soon that 10 minute gaps for 2 balls was massive overkill when the first lockdown lifted.

We are now back to 8 min with anything up to 4 balls allowed, I don't see any reason why 6 minutes or so for 2s can't be put in place now it's colder and people won't just bimble round.
		
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The issue we have is our first is a par 3 (169 off the yellows and 225 off the whites) so we have to wait for the green to clear so not sure a narrow 6 minute gap works for us. If the hole is a par 4 or par 5 then yes, get them off the tee and hitting the second and the next can get off so I can see how six minutes can work


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## rulefan (Oct 31, 2020)

Outside exercise time increased to no limit.
Meeting outside with only one person (?) from one other household.
2 - 4 balls depending on combinations.

I reckon back to 10 minutes to allow for lost ball back-ups etc.


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## Wabinez (Oct 31, 2020)

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...er-england-goes-into-second-lockdown-12119939

judging by this...golf is not allowed


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## Sats (Oct 31, 2020)

Honestly with this weather I'm not as vexed as the last lockdown. However, knowing the rules of sod it'll be dry and sunny for the next 5 weeks!


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## North Mimms (Oct 31, 2020)

Wabinez said:



https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...er-england-goes-into-second-lockdown-12119939

judging by this...golf is not allowed
		
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That link mentions exercise but I assume it means going for a walk, not driving to go for exercise


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## pendodave (Oct 31, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Outside exercise time increased to no limit.
Meeting outside with only one person (?) from one other household.
2 - 4 balls depending on combinations.

I reckon back to 10 minutes to allow for lost ball back-ups etc.
		
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Not wanting to be rude, but given that it's winter and nobody will be playing in a comp, just drop one down and add 1. 8 minutes is plenty. If you can't get finished in time, just pick up and go to the next. 
There isn't much daylight.
Talking of which, I wouldn't be surprised if we went back to the 9hole only bookings that we had when the first lockdown relaxed.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

North Mimms said:



			That link mentions exercise but I assume it means going for a walk, not driving to go for exercise
		
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That's a myth. Not the golf bit cuz they may ban but you can drive for exercise 

Drive to the local park for a walk for example


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## rulefan (Oct 31, 2020)

Wabinez said:



https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...er-england-goes-into-second-lockdown-12119939

judging by this...golf is not allowed
		
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Interesting, Johnson didn't mention golf in the press briefing. What other info has Sky got?


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## 94tegsi (Oct 31, 2020)

North Mimms said:



			That link mentions exercise but I assume it means going for a walk, not driving to go for exercise
		
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The link specifically says no golf. But not sure if that is fact or a sky news interpretation. As mentioned, England golf will confirm in the next day or so


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## IainP (Oct 31, 2020)

Holding pattern 
https://www.englandgolf.org/update-...FJektaJKyk6_IJvetwnvXGTzQWz_Wmkcj7WEi-GJ8k-sM


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## Fish (Oct 31, 2020)

Golf is classed as leisure not exercise, but it’s all still got to go to hoc, so things could change before Thursday. 

Needs England Golf to push it and not bottle it.


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## Golfnut1957 (Oct 31, 2020)

Sats said:



			Honestly with this weather I'm not as vexed as the last lockdown. However, knowing the rules of sod it'll be dry and sunny for the next 5 weeks!
		
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By pure chance I'm currently fitting a new kitchen and I'm at a critical stage which required me to inform my golfing buddies that I wouldn't be playing for two weeks, so that's half of the lock down taken care of. That wasn't the kitchen finished it is just the point where professional fitters were coming in to fit a worktop to an island, fat chance now. But there will still be plenty of work to do so that's me sorted.

I would still rather be playing golf.


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

94tegsi said:



			The link specifically says no golf. But not sure if that is fact or a sky news interpretation. As mentioned, England golf will confirm in the next day or so
		
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This is what I can't stand tbh. Sky etc have no idea what's going on. If golf England say it then it's fact


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## hovis (Oct 31, 2020)

Like Imurg said. We'll have to wait to see what the grown ups say


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## SteveJay (Oct 31, 2020)

Wont golf fall under the "amateur sport" category, i.e. banned? Either way can't see it being permitted here when Wales and Ireland have stopped it during their lockdowns.


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## hovis (Oct 31, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			Wont golf fall under the "amateur sport" category, i.e. banned? Either way can't see it being permitted here when Wales and Ireland have stopped it during their lockdowns.
		
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Have Wales been told they can exercise with one other person?  I genuinely don't know


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## Scott W (Oct 31, 2020)

https://www.englandgolf.org/update-following-the-prime-ministers-statement-of-31-october/

Some hope


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## Crow (Oct 31, 2020)

For 2-balls to play the course needs to be open, which means staff working at the club.

With only essential jobs allowed, golf club staff won't be allowed to work which puts us in the same position as the start of the first lockdown, limited greenstaff only and no play.

(IMHO of course  )


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## Lilyhawk (Oct 31, 2020)

No golf.  



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-nat...ty-taxon=774cee22-d896-44c1-a611-e3109cce8eae


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## hovis (Oct 31, 2020)

Lilyhawk said:



			No golf.  

View attachment 33222

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-nat...ty-taxon=774cee22-d896-44c1-a611-e3109cce8eae

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There you go then.    Hopefully I can go fishing 😋


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## MarkT (Oct 31, 2020)

Sorry if this has already been posted but this on the England Golf statement in the past hour... so no definitive decision yet


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 31, 2020)

MarkT said:



			Sorry if this has already been posted but this on the England Golf statement in the past hour... so no definitive decision yet
		
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

Unfortunatly this was released not long after by the Government detailing the restrictions


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## Fish (Oct 31, 2020)

MarkT said:



			Sorry if this has already been posted but this on the England Golf statement in the past hour... so no definitive decision yet
		
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Yep, EG and the R&A will hopefully put a case forward to have golf courses open under the restrictions we had as the first lockdown was being lifted. 

Let’s hope they both grow a pair.


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## MarkT (Oct 31, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

Unfortunatly this was released not long after by the Government detailing the restrictions

View attachment 33224

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Oh, was doing bedtime and hoping it was the other way round


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## Ragamuffin Gunner (Oct 31, 2020)

Government guidance looks specific and unequivocal to me. I think it is partly about about sending a message about how seriously we should all be taking this etc...


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## Doodle (Oct 31, 2020)

Bloody ridiculous


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## pauljames87 (Oct 31, 2020)

Ragamuffin Gunner said:



			Government guidance looks specific and unequivocal to me. I think it is partly about about sending a message about how seriously we should all be taking this etc...

View attachment 33225

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Playing weds then pack the club's away for a month


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## IainP (Oct 31, 2020)

FWIW, I see one of these has popped up again so sharing 
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851


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## Griffsters (Oct 31, 2020)

I can't muster a *sigh* big enough to demonstrate how pee'd off I feel.

There is just something that doesn't feel quite right, but nothing I can do. More and more I feel that the damage from these lockdowns from an economic, health and mental well-being and societal viewpoint is going to be greater than covid itself.

It feels like we are in a never-ending cycle, the reality is Covid is here and its an illness we will need to live with even when a vaccine arrives. Let's get on with it.


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## Swinglowandslow (Oct 31, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			This is what I can't stand tbh. Sky etc have no idea what's going on. If golf England say it then it's fact
		
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It's a fact - golf courses and ranges to close. 
See the official Gov website.


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## MarkT (Oct 31, 2020)

Am always wary of overstating the importance of golf and appreciate that I'm heavily biased but, of all these things below, golf seems the silliest one to shut down.

At least we've got the Masters in 12 days' time (and the Cyprus Showdown in the interim)


all non-essential retail, including, but not limited to clothing and electronics stores, vehicle showrooms, travel agents, betting shops, auction houses, tailors, car washes, tobacco and vape shops.
indoor and outdoor leisure facilities such as bowling alleys, leisure centres and gyms, sports facilities including swimming pools, golf courses and driving ranges, dance studios, stables and riding centres, soft play facilities, climbing walls and climbing centres, archery and shooting ranges, water and theme parks,
entertainment venues such as theatres, concert halls, cinemas, museums and galleries, casinos, adult gaming centres and arcades, bingo halls, bowling alleys, concert halls, zoos and other animal attractions, botanical gardens;
personal care facilities such as hair, beauty and nail salons, tattoo parlours, spas, massage parlours, body and skin piercing services, non-medical acupuncture, and tanning salons.


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## Swinglowandslow (Oct 31, 2020)

Griffsters said:



			I can't muster a *sigh* big enough to demonstrate how pee'd off I feel.

There is just something that doesn't feel quite right, but nothing I can do. More and more I feel that the damage from these lockdowns from an economic, health and mental well-being and societal viewpoint is going to be greater than covid itself.

It feels like we are in a never-ending cycle, the reality is Covid is here and its an illness we will need to live with even when a vaccine arrives. Let's get on with it.
		
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The message this evening from the P M and the scientists was there - if things carry on as they are the NHS will be overwhelmed to the point that not only can they not deal with Covid properly, they won't be able to deal with other serious conditions properly....
IOW, things will grind to a halt.Its an inconvenient truth. "Getting on with it" ain't going to do!


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## DRW (Oct 31, 2020)

gutted


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## CliveW (Oct 31, 2020)

Well it looks like golf in Scotland will continue https://scottishgolf.org/october-30th-covid-19-update/ However people from England are asked not to travel to Scotland unless absolutely essential. 
"Following today’s announcement by the Prime Minister we are also asking that people do not travel to England, or from England into Scotland unless absolutely essential, just as we are also asking people not to go to Northern Ireland or to Wales.
"We know that these restrictions are difficult, but public health and preventing the spread of the virus must come first."


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

If the LTA are going to try and persuade the government to allow tennis to carry on then golf England will be on the case as well I hope.


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			If the LTA are going to try and persuade the government to allow tennis to carry on then golf England will be on the case as well I hope.
		
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You’d like to think that England Golf and the R&A will put a case forward to open golf courses, under restrictions like we had previously when the last lockdown was lifted. 

We all know the average age
of golfers at clubs is 50+, so getting us out in the fresh air, even just for 9 holes in 2-balls can be key to keeping healthy and not shut up in the house, and for many, home alone!

I dont think traveling to a golf course is excessive travel for many, if the government think it is, then just ring fence that to 10 miles (example) if it’s key to keeping courses open.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			You’d like to think that England Golf and the R&A will put a case forward to open golf courses, under restrictions like we had previously when the last lockdown was lifted. 

We all know the average age
of golfers at clubs is 50+, so getting us out in the fresh air, even just for 9 holes in 2-balls can be key to keeping healthy and not shut up in the house, and for many, home alone!

I dont think traveling to a golf course is excessive travel for many, if the government think it is, then just ring fence that to 10 miles (example) if it’s key to keeping courses open.
		
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12 miles please 🤣


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Come on everyone, get signing. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851


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## OnTour (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Yep, EG and the R&A will hopefully put a case forward to have golf courses open under the restrictions we had as the first lockdown was being lifted.

Let’s hope they both grow a pair.
		
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Only time we need TRUMP as PM somebody who actively plays the game not TENNIS BORIS.  pray for common sense and as said before 15 miles radius to the club


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## howbow88 (Nov 1, 2020)

Although I disagree with the decision to stop golf, the weather around here has been so bad for the last week that I've written off playing now until March. I would be very upset if I lived near a good draining links track! 

Should golf be open? I think that if you have a course capable of operating without a pro shop and clubhouse, then it really can comply with the principles of lockdown. At the end of the day, golf really is just a long walk in the fresh air.

In terms of mental health for everyone, not just golfers, I think this lockdown is going to be much harder than the first. Last time the weather was lovely, so if you were lucky enough to have a garden then spending the day in the sun with a book was a delight. This time, we will all be cooped up inside, slowly going mad


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 1, 2020)

Looking for silver lining - even though it drains well our course needs a rest and play throughout November was not going to have helped.


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## timd77 (Nov 1, 2020)

Well that’s me back out in the storm today to get one last round in!


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## Sully (Nov 1, 2020)

My course was in sorry state due to the weather ,  but was hoping to get some practice in at the range. 

Not logical at all to close golf course or the driving range.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2020)

Sully said:



			My course was in sorry state due to the weather ,  but was hoping to get some practice in at the range. 

Not logical at all to close golf course or the driving range.
		
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Driving range I can understand as lots of places you can touch the same things like golf balls, bays etc 

Where as golf is more open 

But whatever they decide got to go with 

Thankfully it's winter lol if was summer again with beautiful days outside would really kick us


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

Petitions 🤦‍♂️ Embarrassing 

Whilst I think it’s not right to have the lockdown nationally and instead should be locally - it’s done now and it will be a four week break , we can see go and have a walk in the fresh air and let’s be honest playing a round of golf is not key to keeping the country going. It will be tough on some but just get out and have a walk - England Golf will just follow the guidelines


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## Sully (Nov 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Driving range I can understand as lots of places you can touch the same things like golf balls, bays etc

Where as golf is more open

But whatever they decide got to go with

Thankfully it's winter lol if was summer again with beautiful days outside would really kick us
		
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Ahh, yes I’ve been spoiled with my driving range with the automated tees. If you factor in most places won’t have them you can see the reasoning.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2020)

Sully said:



			Ahh, yes I’ve been spoiled with my driving range with the automated tees. If you factor in most places won’t have them you can see the reasoning.
		
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Still got to load the balls into the tee tho, lift the hatch still is it? Pour them in then mayb press the button for tee height 

All risks I guess


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## Sully (Nov 1, 2020)

Lift hatch ,pour. Buttons everyone kicks !


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Petitions 🤦‍♂️ Embarrassing 

Whilst I think it’s not right to have the lockdown nationally and instead should be locally - it’s done now and it will be a four week break , we can see go and have a walk in the fresh air and let’s be honest playing a round of golf is not key to keeping the country going. It will be tough on some but just get out and have a walk - England Golf will just follow the guidelines
		
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A petition is OTT, but I'd like to see the EGU step up and see if something can be done to keep us playing.


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## rulefan (Nov 1, 2020)

A quote from the Telegraph:-

_Organised sports__ such as golf will also be prohibited, while more guidance is expected soon on whether people from the same household or two people from different households will be able to play tennis and other sports outdoors. _

I wonder if there will be a distinction between competitions and casual two balls.


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## Crazyface (Nov 1, 2020)

Leisure activitites can continue with one other person not in your household.  That what BJ said. No problem then. Why is everyone on here quick to throw their hands up in despair all the damn time.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			Leisure activitites can continue with one other person not in your household.  That what BJ said. No problem then. Why is everyone on here quick to throw their hands up in despair all the damn time.
		
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because golf courses are specifically mentioned in the gov.uk blurb as being closed


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## pauljames87 (Nov 1, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			Leisure activitites can continue with one other person not in your household.  That what BJ said. No problem then. Why is everyone on here quick to throw their hands up in despair all the damn time.
		
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https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-nat...ty-taxon=774cee22-d896-44c1-a611-e3109cce8eae

People have taken time to read up the gov website ....


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## harpo_72 (Nov 1, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-nat...ty-taxon=774cee22-d896-44c1-a611-e3109cce8eae

People have taken time to read up the gov website ....
		
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Yup it’s under number 4 ... no golf or driving ranges ... so go for a walk and take a club and hit balls down the high street


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## PhilCAFC (Nov 1, 2020)

Completely nonsensical to close courses. Golf is an important form of exercise particularly for elderly people. I can understand Clubhouses and Indoor Facilities being closed but no need at all to close down the actual course. As from Thursday at my course as on many others you can exercise and walk your dog on the footpaths that close the course but you can't play golf. Ridiculous.


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## jim8flog (Nov 1, 2020)

Listening to  a couple of political programmes this morning looks like the 'unnecessary travel' is going to be emphasised.

I have to travel nearly the same distance to get to the supermarket and actually do the shopping on my way home after golf.


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## woofers (Nov 1, 2020)

There aren’t many better times to close than now.
It‘s wet, it’s muddy, there’s decreasing daylight hours.
Going to 2 balls will increase pressure on tee times, and implementing restrictions on the number of bookings per week will give another reason for golfers to moan.
Courses have been rammed this summer. Memberships have increased.
Tee times have been at a premium.
My clubs finances are the healthiest they have been in a while.
The course could do with a break.

I‘m in the elderly bracket, and perfectly capable of going for a long walk without the need to hit a little white ball whilst doing so.

My bigger concern about this lockdown is the mental side of things. People can find ways to exercise but for some the social interaction of the club is important - but that’s a different issue, opening the course won’t help that.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 1, 2020)

Whilst I am going to miss my weekend only golf, I do think theres an element of "everyone else but not me" in some of the reactions. The virus doesn't ignore golfers wherever they are, so lets not pretend to be a special case. 
Isn't the "doesn't apply to me "attitude the reason we are seeing these measures again?
It's only a month, after that we can hopefully return to the mud and foul weather golf we seem to love.


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## Jigger (Nov 1, 2020)

Section 4 says no golf.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november#businesses-and-venues


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

The petition to open golf courses is pathetic. It’s 4 weeks in the middle of winter. The mental well being angle is trash. Go for a walk, you don’t need to travel to a golf course


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## sunshine (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Petitions 🤦‍♂️ Embarrassing

Whilst I think it’s not right to have the lockdown nationally and instead should be locally - it’s done now and it will be a four week break , we can see go and have a walk in the fresh air and let’s be honest playing a round of golf is not key to keeping the country going. It will be tough on some but just get out and have a walk - England Golf will just follow the guidelines
		
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It’s true that golf is not key to keeping the country going. 

But we know golf can be played in a safe and socially distanced format within the new regulations that Boris outlined.

 If keeping golf open means that some people can keep their jobs, that some small businesses remain afloat, that some people are able to maintain their mental health, then the benefits outweigh a blanket ban.


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			The petition to open golf courses is pathetic. It’s 4 weeks in the middle of winter. The mental well being angle is trash. Go for a walk, you don’t need to travel to a golf course
		
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So it's OK that I can run shoulder to shoulder with my friend down the canal for 8 miles but can't do it with a bat in my hand.  This is a golf forum so don't be surprised that people want to play golf


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## rulefan (Nov 1, 2020)

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851


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## IainP (Nov 1, 2020)

As was discussed last time, golf is a leisure business and it needs people to run it.
Walking with or without a dog, or going for a jog doesn't.

Not saying I agree with closing, but let's not pretend they are the same.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

IainP said:



			As was discussed last time, golf is a leisure business and it needs people to run it.
Walking with or without a dog, or going for a jog doesn't.

Not saying I agree with closing, but let's not pretend they are the same.
		
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Last time around our bar was shut, toilets only were open. The manager was in for a few hours each day to open, close, clean etc. Him on his own. The greens staff, at our place certainly, can work on their own at different points on the course so that is safe. No risk for any of the employees when managed correctly.


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## Ssshank (Nov 1, 2020)

It's nonsensical, there's no data to justify the closing of golf courses.

I'm convinced there's more to this than meets the eye, looks like an economic reset.


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## Imurg (Nov 1, 2020)

IainP said:



			As was discussed last time, golf is a leisure business and it needs people to run it.
Walking with or without a dog, or going for a jog doesn't.

Not saying I agree with closing, but let's not pretend they are the same.
		
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During lockdown greenkeepers were able to keep working..
When we came back to golf, certainly at our place, the clubhouse and shop were shut. The other staff were working from home.
There was nobody on site except players and greenkeepers..
We're not going into the same level of lockdown as we did in March.


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			So it's OK that I can run shoulder to shoulder with my friend down the canal for 8 miles but can't do it with a bat in my hand.  This is a golf forum so don't be surprised that people want to play golf
		
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Do you need to drive to go for a run?
What happens if you break down on the way to golf?

I have a vested interest more than any on here when it comes to golf, but all this whinging is stupid. It’s 4 weeks of not playing golf in the middle of winter.


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			Do you need to drive to go for a run?
What happens if you break down on the way to golf?

I have a vested interest more than any on here when it comes to golf, but all this whinging is stupid. It’s 4 weeks of not playing golf in the middle of winter.
		
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So it's OK to run with a friend and definitely compromise each other but you don't like the idea of driving to a golf course incase you break down on the way?  Breaking down must be a 1000 to 1.  In fact is there anyone on this forum that has broken down on the way?  Even if I did I'm not that way inclined to great the AA with a handshake and snog


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## IainP (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Last time around our bar was shut, toilets only were open. The manager was in for a few hours each day to open, close, clean etc. Him on his own. The greens staff, at our place certainly, can work on their own at different points on the course so that is safe. No risk for any of the employees when managed correctly.
		
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Are you suggesting your course didn't shut during March - May?


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## IainP (Nov 1, 2020)

Imurg said:



			During lockdown greenkeepers were able to keep working..
When we came back to golf, certainly at our place, the clubhouse and shop were shut. The other staff were working from home.
There was nobody on site except players and greenkeepers..
*We're not going into the same level of lockdown as we did in March*.
		
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As this is a golf forum, one measure is whether the golf courses closed. On that basis it is the same level as March 😉


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 1, 2020)

IainP said:



			Are you suggesting your course didn't shut during March - May?
		
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Don't be naughty 😁, clearly I was meaning when clubs were first opened after the initial lockdown.


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## Imurg (Nov 1, 2020)

IainP said:



			As this is a golf forum, one measure is whether the golf courses closed. On that basis it is the same level as March 😉
		
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I get that..but its not the same level really is it..
Schools are still open - that's the big difference 
When we started playing again in May ( or whenever it was) schools were still closed....


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## jim8flog (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			The mental well being angle is trash.
		
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Clearly a remark from someone who has never suffered mental health problems.

Sort of remark that I expected would have disappeared in the 21st century.


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## IainP (Nov 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Don't be naughty 😁, clearly I was meaning when clubs were first opened after the initial lockdown.
		
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And I'm playing "devil's advocate" with yourself and imurg.
I think golf could stay open pretty safely but there is the equity thing to be aware of.
One view is they are going for as close to the original lockdown but keeping education going.
It's worth us not losing sight of this


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## jim8flog (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			In fact is there anyone on this forum that has broken down on the way?
		
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Yes but luckily I go past the garage where I bought it and was all downhill to the garage!


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			So it's OK to run with a friend and definitely compromise each other but you don't like the idea of driving to a golf course incase you break down on the way?  Breaking down must be a 1000 to 1.  In fact is there anyone on this forum that has broken down on the way?  Even if I did I'm not that way inclined to great the AA with a handshake and snog
		
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jim8flog said:



			Clearly a remark from someone who has never suffered mental health problems.

Sort of remark that I expected would have disappeared in the 21st century.
		
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actually you’re wrong I was off work for 2 month with anxiety about 5 years ago.

I’ve also lost more than 1 friend to suicide in the past 12 months.

The people you can play golf with you can go for a walk with. That’s what I mean. Golf is no different to any other sport, why should we be treated different.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			this forum that has broken down on the way? Even if I did I'm not that way incl
		
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Put my car in a ditch on the way to Studley Wood many years ago, does that count


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Good to see the EGU are going to be fighting our corner and hope to keep golf open. Here's hoping


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## eddie_1878 (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			You’d like to think that England Golf and the R&A will put a case forward to open golf courses, under restrictions like we had previously when the last lockdown was lifted.

We all know the average age
of golfers at clubs is 50+, so getting us out in the fresh air, even just for 9 holes in 2-balls can be key to keeping healthy and not shut up in the house, and for many, home alone!

I dont think traveling to a golf course is excessive travel for many, if the government think it is, then just ring fence that to 10 miles (example) if it’s key to keeping courses open.
		
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Too much common sense there, Fish!

Of all the activities out there, I can’t think of many with a lower risk of transmitting a virus than golf. Even without being conscious of social distancing, you generally wouldn’t be closer than a few meters to anyone anyway. There’s no contact, you’re not touching common surfaces.

Then when you add the physical and mental health benefits, it’s staggering they’ve even considered closing courses.

IMO they’re applying a lazy one size fits all approach.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Dear fellow golfers,

Having digested the Prime Minister’s statement to the nation on Saturday night and read the guidance which followed, there is an element of confusion around the government’s stated intention to close down golf courses and facilities from Thursday 5 November.

As a result of this, and with the health of the nation very much at the heart of my thinking, I would like to make clear England Golf’s intention to respectfully challenge the government’s rationale for closing golf courses.

We will do so utilising all in our network - MPs, colleagues, media and friends - to make sure we are heard by government.

Listening to the Prime Minister, the news that he is actively encouraging safe and responsible outdoor exercise for households or two individuals pointed to our great game of golf being at the heart of this policy.

The guidance which followed stating that golf courses were on a list of venues which should close, therefore, appeared contradictory and came out of the blue.

At no point was England Golf - as the governing body for the amateur game of golf in this country - consulted about this decision.

Of course, we fully recognise and accept the need to suppress the virus to save lives and protect the NHS.

Throughout the pandemic England Golf has endeavoured to act with authority, knowledge, understanding and extreme diligence. At all times we have placed the health and wellbeing of our communities as a priority.

For this and many reasons, it is our sincere belief that it is counter-productive to shut down a healthy pursuit which naturally lends itself to social distancing and is played in a Covid-secure manner in the open air.

Golf returned on 13 May this year following the first national lockdown as an extension of outdoor recreation.

We achieved this after presenting a unified golf industry (All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf) strategy paper that not only outlined a “return to play” roadmap beyond reproach, but which was heralded as best practice for many other sports to reference!

Our (England Golf’s) 'Play Safe, Stay Safe' guidance was endorsed by government, adopted by golf clubs and is now ingrained in the minds of all golfers.

With safe and responsible exercising being encouraged by government during the second period of national lockdown, it seems incongruous to call for golf courses to now close.

Golf is widely acknowledged as a game which is good for the body and soul, with outstanding research reiterating its benefits for the older generation recently shared by The R&A.

But even without a research paper, the physical benefits of exercising in the open air are obvious and known to all.

In the current situation, the psychological gains from being able to enjoy a social and safe form of outdoor activity, enjoying a temporary release from the pressures of everyday life probably outweigh the physical.

I’m aware from the numbers who have signed a national petition that a great many golfers around the country share this belief.

To be clear, I was also very happy to sign this petition.

Alongside our colleagues in the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf (APPGG) we will pro-actively continue dialogue with government challenging the current position hard, but with great reason, to allow golf courses to remain open for play (in some format) from Thursday.

I truly believe this would not, in any way, undermine the huge public health efforts that are going on in the country during these times.

Golf, in fact, can help us get through this terrible pandemic and be stronger for it once we emerge on the other side.

I wish good health to you and your families. Please continue to stay safe.

Kind regards


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Petitions 🤦‍♂️ Embarrassing
		
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Well the CEO of England Golf wasn’t embarrassed to sign it, the only embarrassment is people like you. 

https://www.englandgolf.org/ceos-letter-to-golfers-challenging-hard-for-all-the-right-reasons/


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## North Mimms (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			Put my car in a ditch on the way to Studley Wood many years ago, does that count 

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I assume you could drop it out within 2 club lengths...


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			Well the CEO of England Golf wasn’t embarrassed to sign it, the only embarrassment is people like you.

https://www.englandgolf.org/ceos-letter-to-golfers-challenging-hard-for-all-the-right-reasons/

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Any need for that? Phil’s allowed an opinion. Personally I’m with Phil. It’s 4 weeks. Much more important things right now.


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

North Mimms said:



			I assume you could drop it out within 2 club lengths...
		
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lol, no, declared it lost, went and played the medal then came back and "picked it up" later


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

Golf better be banned.  I've just spent £100 on a net for the garden 🤮


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## Wildrover (Nov 1, 2020)

How many mass outbreaks have there been at schools, universities and factories? All staying open.

How many have there been at golf clubs? Closed. 

I'm all for following the rules of lockdown and think they are doing the right thing [eventually], but this is where they lose public support when the rules make no sense.


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## Billysboots (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			Golf better be banned.  I've just spent £100 on a net for the garden 🤮
		
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Unless you’re landlocked, perhaps using it as some sort of fishing net may be in order. That way, you can get fresh air and avoid the panic buying of all Findus frozen products.

(Other frozen fish products are available......)


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## Green Bay Hacker (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			Have Wales been told they can exercise with one other person?  I genuinely don't know
		
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No golf for us at all. Luckily our fire break ends on 9 November. The Welsh tory MP's/MS's have all disappeared after slagging off Mark Drakeford's 2 week lockdown.


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## Fish (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			Any need for that? Phil’s allowed an opinion. Personally I’m with Phil.
		
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And I’m entitled to mine.....

And I’m not surprised....


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			And I’m entitled to mine.....

And I’m not surprised....
		
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If there is one person on the forum who could be angry and disappointed about the lockdown is Sam with his business and job relying on golf as opposed to most where it’s just a hobby. We can all survive for 4 weeks without a game of golf - the reaction from some is way ott and very self centred - there are bigger things going on with this virus than people playing golf


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If there is one person on the forum who could be angry and disappointed about the lockdown is Sam with his business and job relying on golf as opposed to most where it’s just a hobby. We can all survive for 4 weeks without a game of golf - the reaction from some is way ott and very self centred - there are bigger things going on with this virus than people playing golf
		
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Yeah I’ve literally had both both incomes taken away from me, but as long as everyone can get out and shoot 90+ in the rain everything is great.


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			Yeah I’ve literally had both both incomes taken away from me, but as long as everyone can get out and shoot 90+ in the rain everything is great.[/QUOTE


Fish said:



			And I’m entitled to mine.....

And I’m not surprised....
		
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its not about an opinion, it’s calling someone an embarrassment.
		
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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			Yeah I’ve literally had both both incomes taken away from me, but as long as everyone can get out and shoot 90+ in the rain everything is great.
		
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Are you not entitled to any grants or help from the government Durring lockdown?


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Golf can comfortably be run in a covid secure fashion .  Other sporting bodies are pushing for their respective sports to be open too, not just golf.


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			Yeah I’ve literally had both both incomes taken away from me, but as long as everyone can get out and shoot 90+ in the rain everything is great.
		
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No one is saying that.
Just because it affects you financially it doesn’t mean no one else can be annoyed by it.
Maybe you could look at getting some temporary work else where for a while?


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## Jacko_G (Nov 1, 2020)

What are we arguing about now - I've lost track.


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## harpo_72 (Nov 1, 2020)

On a brighter note ... whs can get its self sorted without the constant inputs of new scores ..


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## KenL (Nov 1, 2020)

Fish said:



			😂 oh how pretentious is that, we all bow to your superiority, I didn’t realise that ability had any bearing on wanting to go and play in probably the safest sport available to us during a pandemic, much safer than going to the supermarket or petrol garage. 

Do you 2 lick each other’s balls in solidarity on the course, or do you lower your standards like the rest of us chompers and just lick your own?
		
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I found the political threads to be less aggressive than this one I have to say. 😬


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			Are you not entitled to any grants or help from the government Durring lockdown?
		
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It’s not about that, and I’m not even moaning about it. I’m just giving a balanced view that right now golf being open is completely not an issue and people petitioning for it to be discussed in parliament is comical.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 1, 2020)

I don't moan when I cant play golf on a 2 week holiday, so for it to be 4 weeks I will live with and hopefully stay alive and healthy.
Lets be honest, at this time of year golf can be very torturous what with the ground conditions and weather, so lets just  accept the break and look forward to getting back out there ankle deep in the soft stuff.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I don't moan when I cant play golf on a 2 week holiday, so for it to be 4 weeks I will live with and hopefully stay alive and healthy.
Lets be honest, at this time of year golf can be very torturous what with the ground conditions and weather, so lets just  accept the break and look forward to getting back out there ankle deep in the soft stuff.

Click to expand...

If anything the timing is good to allow a lot of the courses a bit of a break , all the courses would have had a lot of traffic over the past 6 months so a bit of breather with this mild wet weather will help the course. It’s frustrating that we can’t go and play golf but in the grand scheme of things it’s way down the list of priorities for the government to think off.

We have been very lucky - some sports havent even started and some leagues already cancelled


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			It’s not about that, and I’m not even moaning about it. I’m just giving a balanced view that right now golf being open is completely not an issue and people petitioning for it to be discussed in parliament is comical.
		
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You just said you lost both your incomes.  So it is about that or why say it.   So have you lost both your incomes?


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## MendieGK (Nov 1, 2020)

yes both of them, we’ll get some support but it is what it is. Everything is fine. 
Except courses being closed. I’m losing sleep over that 😂


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## Tiger man (Nov 1, 2020)

Petition signed, leave the game alone people need an outlet. No valid arguement to shutting them for the sake of it providing people are not travelling miles to get there.


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## 3offTheTee (Nov 1, 2020)

fundy said:



			lol, no, declared it lost, went and played the medal then came back and "picked it up" later 

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Did not think you were allowed to call it lost. Did you play 3 or BUY a provisional?


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## MarkT (Nov 1, 2020)

I’m grasping at anything a bit here


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

It does amaze that when decisions like this are made why consultations aren’t made by the culture Secretary to the governing bodies of relevant sports. 

I know England Hockey were totally unaware of what was going to happen , England Golf clearly were not informed and even elite sports etc - a lot of Amatuers sport leagues like rugby have all been cancelled


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It does amaze that when decisions like this are made why consultations aren’t made by the culture Secretary to the governing bodies of relevant sports.

I know England Hockey were totally unaware of what was going to happen , England Golf clearly were not informed and even elite sports etc - a lot of Amatuers sport leagues like rugby have all been cancelled
		
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Best start a petition 👍


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## fundy (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It does amaze that when decisions like this are made why consultations aren’t made by the culture Secretary to the governing bodies of relevant sports.

I know England Hockey were totally unaware of what was going to happen , England Golf clearly were not informed and even elite sports etc - a lot of Amatuers sport leagues like rugby have all been cancelled
		
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i expect its because the more they involve the more likely it is that news gets leaked ahead of announcements. There again, thats happening anyway


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Best start a petition 👍
		
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And that adds what exactly apart from being a touch childish 🙄


fundy said:



			i expect its because the more they involve the more likely it is that news gets leaked ahead of announcements. There again, thats happening anyway
		
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This apparently was all planned 2 weeks ago but was leaked then and then forgotten about and then leaked again. I don’t think anything is kept quiet these days


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## Mattie (Nov 1, 2020)

Have we all signed this petition... 225,000 already:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851


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## USER1999 (Nov 1, 2020)

Mattie said:



			Have we all signed this petition... 225,000 already:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851

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No.


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

Mattie said:



			Have we all signed this petition... 225,000 already:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/309851

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I havnt,  but I am pleased that the EGU are talking to the government about keeping golf going during the lockdown.


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## nickjdavis (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It does amaze that when decisions like this are made why consultations aren’t made by the culture Secretary to the governing bodies of relevant sports.

I know England Hockey were totally unaware of what was going to happen , England Golf clearly were not informed and even elite sports etc - a lot of Amatuers sport leagues like rugby have all been cancelled
		
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Because governments cannot consult with every governing body of every sport every time they want to make a decision on something. What is so special about Golf? In terms of amateur participation sports in the UK in 2018/19, it barely outstrips Badminton and pales into insignificance when compared to Running, Swimming and  Hill Walking, all of which themselves are dwarfed by the various combined gymnasium based activities.

Data source: Statistica.com

Sometimes you just cannot govern by concensus...sometimes you need a government that just says JFDI and we will sort the fallout afterwards.


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## SammmeBee (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It does amaze that when decisions like this are made why consultations aren’t made by the culture Secretary to the governing bodies of relevant sports. 

I know England Hockey were totally unaware of what was going to happen , England Golf clearly were not informed and even elite sports etc - a lot of Amatuers sport leagues like rugby have all been cancelled
		
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Why would they be?!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 1, 2020)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ieves-from-covid-ban-government-boris-johnson


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ieves-from-covid-ban-government-boris-johnson

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Sounds promising.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 1, 2020)

The thing is where do you draw the line? I am sure other sports like badminton, bowls etc will argue they are already operating in Covid secure environments. The government won't open every sport back up


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## YorkshireStu (Nov 1, 2020)

At least


pauldj42 said:



https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ieves-from-covid-ban-government-boris-johnson

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All fingers crossed!


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The thing is where do you draw the line? I am sure other sports like badminton, bowls etc will argue they are already operating in Covid secure environments. The government won't open every sport back up
		
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At sports that can't be played safely in an outdoor environment.....


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2020)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Best start a petition 👍
		
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😂😂


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And that adds what exactly apart from being a touch childish 🙄


This apparently was all planned 2 weeks ago but was leaked then and then forgotten about and then leaked again. I don’t think anything is kept quiet these days
		
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Calm down Karen 😬😂


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 1, 2020)

https://www.alistairtaitgolf.com/post/to-sign-or-not-to-sign-that-is-the-question - good blog about it all 👍


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 1, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.alistairtaitgolf.com/post/to-sign-or-not-to-sign-that-is-the-question - good blog about it all 👍
		
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Amazing read that Phillip.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻👍🏻


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## hovis (Nov 1, 2020)

I wonder.  Will these people that oppose the petition refuse to play if golf is given the green light?


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## robinthehood (Nov 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			I wonder.  Will these people that oppose the petition refuse to play if golf is given the green light?
		
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Hahaha of course not. Probs 1st in the queue 🤣😂


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## CliveW (Nov 2, 2020)

This looks promising...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ieves-from-covid-ban-government-boris-johnson


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## GF23 (Nov 2, 2020)

Petition has been closed at 255k, I wonder why?


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## Imurg (Nov 2, 2020)

I think was only open until midnight...no point in keeping it open longer if a decision is to be made today or tomorrow


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## Neilds (Nov 2, 2020)

Just wondering, are those people now claiming that golf is essential exercise the same ones who rubbished the ‘golf for fitness’ threads earlier on the forum? 😀😀😀


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2020)

hovis said:



			I wonder.  Will these people that oppose the petition refuse to play if golf is given the green light?
		
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I think you maybe either misreading or deliberately misinterpreted what’s being said but I’ll clarify 

I believe a full national wide restrictions was wrong and should have stayed locally , I’m not happy that we can’t play golf for 4 weeks 

But i believe starting a petition to make golf exempt from the restrictions was wrong for a number of reasons 

It’s an awful situation right now with the pandemic , death rates and infection rates are on the increase once again and the government believe it’s time to try stronger measures and surely it’s our responsibility to do our bit to help as opposed to throwing toys out of the cot demanding that we can still play our sport because there appears to be a belief that gold is totally immune to the virus. It’s 4 weeks to try and help , reduce the traffic , reduce the movement , help in anyway we can for a small amount of time in the hope that we help get people through a hard winter ahead . 

Yes it’s harsh , yes it’s outdoors where the risk is lower but that doesn’t mean we should be exempt from helping out and doing our bit


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## AmandaJR (Nov 2, 2020)

hovis said:



			I wonder.  Will these people that oppose the petition refuse to play if golf is given the green light?
		
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Personally no. I can't justify it as essential travel.


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## howbow88 (Nov 2, 2020)

Saying stuff like 'golf is a sport, no different to any other' is obviously disingenuous. Rugby and football for example cannot be played without physical contact, whereas golf obviously can. 

It looks like another miserable day of rain down here in the beautiful south, so I am not missing golf. But should it be open to anyone who wants to don a scuba diving outfit and some wellies? Yes, absolutely. Any business that can be carried out safely at the moment should be open.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think you maybe either misreading or deliberately misinterpreted what’s being said but I’ll clarify

I believe a full national wide restrictions was wrong and should have stayed locally , I’m not happy that we can’t play golf for 4 weeks

But i believe starting a petition to make golf exempt from the restrictions was wrong for a number of reasons

It’s an awful situation right now with the pandemic , death rates and infection rates are on the increase once again and the government believe it’s time to try stronger measures and surely it’s our responsibility to do our bit to help as opposed to throwing toys out of the cot demanding that we can still play our sport because there appears to be a belief that gold is totally immune to the virus. It’s 4 weeks to try and help , reduce the traffic , reduce the movement , help in anyway we can for a small amount of time in the hope that we help get people through a hard winter ahead .

Yes it’s harsh , yes it’s outdoors where the risk is lower but that doesn’t mean we should be exempt from helping out and doing our bit
		
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and youre overstating it, no ones throwing toys (well maybe 1 or 2  ) The EGU are asking the goverment to reconsider golf as it can be played safely. If we allowed then great, if not no probnlem either.

This pandemic has bought the best but also sadly the worst out of people.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Personally no. I can't justify it as essential travel.
		
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I see this a lot different from lockdown 1.0

We know about the virus a bit, this is a work from home if you can anyone else if we haven't told you to shut you can open (ie Car garages for services etc) workplaces are now covid "secure" or whatever they call it

Schools open 

I don't think the roads will be as quiet as last time


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			and youre overstating it, no ones throwing toys (well maybe 1 or 2  ) The EGU are asking the goverment to reconsider golf as it can be played safely. If we allowed then great, if not no probnlem either.

This pandemic has bought the best but also sadly the worst out of people.
		
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That's exactly how I see it

Ask the question .. if they say no fair enough we asked respect the decision ..

This was obviously rushed through at the last minute.. so things might get overlooked 

It's like at work you always go on the side of safety. If someone jumps on the track you whip off all the sections of current in the area. Once you get more information you put back on the ones that are safe. Don't keep them off just because you can


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## SteveJay (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			and youre overstating it, no ones throwing toys (well maybe 1 or 2  ) The EGU are asking the goverment to reconsider golf as it can be played safely. If we allowed then great, if not no probnlem either.

This pandemic has bought the best but also sadly the worst out of people.
		
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But why take up valuable government time by having to consider golf, and no doubt loads of other sports who believe they have a case for exemption, when the government has far more important things to try and deal with.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			But why take up valuable government time by having to consider golf, and no doubt loads of other sports who believe they have a case for exemption, when the government has far more important things to try and deal with.
		
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Another one overstating it, you'd think we were asking for 2 weeks of parlimentary time to debate it! WHen the reality is the goverments dedicated:
Department for
Digital, Culture,
Media & Sport 

Will be able to decide on it.


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## howbow88 (Nov 2, 2020)

If you can keep people off the furlough scheme and have less chance of redundancy, all whilst operating a business that can stay open safely, then it massively helps the country and current government.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Another one overstating it, you'd think we were asking for 2 weeks of parlimentary time to debate it! WHen the reality is the goverments dedicated:
Department for
Digital, Culture,
Media & Sport

Will be able to decide on it.
		
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Whether he is in your opinion “Another one overstating it” the ”fact” the Department you listed won’t be able to decide on it as that’s not how Petitions to the UK Government work.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help


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## eddie_1878 (Nov 2, 2020)

Closing courses won’t make a jot of difference to infection or death rates. If anyone can demonstrate a reasonable level of risk to justify closing them, then I’ll eat my hat. 

Closing courses, or indeed any other extremely low-risk activity, ‘just because’ is ridiculous and lazy. 

Schools and universities are breeding grounds for COVID, but they’ll stay open! Let’s be honest if your priority is to put a stop to the virus, then this is farcical. My daughter had a month of online classes this year and it worked just fine after some teething problems. All for shortening next years summer holidays if there’s been a genuine negative impact as a result of home learning.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Whether he is in your opinion “Another one overstating it” the ”fact” the Department you listed won’t be able to decide on it as that’s not how Petitions to the UK Government work.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help

Click to expand...

The petiton is irrelevant. The government are looking at a number of sports and will update further if there are to be changes. Golf is not alone in wanting to carry on.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			The petiton is irrelevant. The government are looking at a number of sports and will update further if there are to be changes. Golf is not alone in wanting to carry on.
		
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They are not only looking at it due to one reason, it is numerous and one of those will be the petition, they can’t ignore their own rules.

This will of massively backed the CEO’s letter.


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## jmf1488 (Nov 2, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			Personally no. I can't justify it as essential travel.
		
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You can literally drive to your golf club alone. Check in while socially distanced. Play 18 holes by yourself or socially distanced from a fellow competitor. What damage are you doing by doing this?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			actually you’re wrong I was off work for 2 month with anxiety about 5 years ago.

I’ve also lost more than 1 friend to suicide in the past 12 months.

The people you can play golf with you can go for a walk with. That’s what I mean. Golf is no different to any other sport, why should we be treated different.
		
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That’s not quite true.
Golf is unique in sport .
It’s non contact.
Nobody else touches your ball unlike most ball sports.
Nobody touches your equipment.
This makes it easy to play solo.
While I am not that bothered this time of the year it’s important for some people to just get out.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 2, 2020)

eddie_1878 said:



			Closing courses won’t make a jot of difference to infection or death rates. If anyone can demonstrate a reasonable level of risk to justify closing them, then I’ll eat my hat.

Closing courses, or indeed any other extremely low-risk activity, ‘just because’ is ridiculous and lazy.

Schools and universities are breeding grounds for COVID, but they’ll stay open! Let’s be honest if your priority is to put a stop to the virus, then this is farcical. My daughter had a month of online classes this year and it worked just fine after some teething problems. All for shortening next years summer holidays if there’s been a genuine negative impact as a result of home learning.
		
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Education trumps everything in my opinion.

If other activities need to stoop to allow education to continue then so be it. 

The number of adults behaving like spoilt children throwing a tantrum is embarrassing.


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## eddie_1878 (Nov 2, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Education trumps everything in my opinion.

If other activities need to stoop to allow education to continue then so be it.

The number of adults behaving like spoilt children throwing a tantrum is embarrassing.
		
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What bearing do other activities, such as golf, have on education though? Neither go hand in hand. If one is absolute bare minimum risk and gets closed whilst the other is highest risk in terms of transmitting the virus, but remains open, then it’s fair to question the governments reasoning. 

Children don’t HAVE to attend school to do their work. I’m fairly strict in ensuring my daughter is both doing her work and being set enough of it to aid development. When doing her classes at home, if anything she had more to do. Teachers were on hand to support, it worked well in a tough situation. 

Not sure I’ve seen many tantrums but I don’t see any issue in people challenging decisions which don’t stand to reason. It’s like when authorities or the like quote ‘safety reasons’ as a blanket reason for method of control. If you don’t agree it’s fair to ask the question at the very least. 

As I said if they can demonstrate a reasonable risk to ANY activity as justification to putting a temporary ban on it, then fair enough. ‘Just because’ doesn’t cut it for me.


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## jmf1488 (Nov 2, 2020)

During the first lockdown the courses were open for exercise.

This lockdown if golf doesn't get an exemption you will be able to meet up with a friend in your bubble. You both will be able to travel to the club and walk every hole as many times as you want. So long as you don't have a club and ball in your hand.


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## OnTour (Nov 2, 2020)

jmf1488 said:



			During the first lockdown the courses were open for exercise.

This lockdown if golf doesn't get an exemption you will be able to meet up with a friend in your bubble. You both will be able to travel to the club and walk every hole as many times as you want. So long as you don't have a club and ball in your hand.
		
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club and ball in your hand at the same time ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2020)

jmf1488 said:



			During the first lockdown the courses were open for exercise.

This lockdown if golf doesn't get an exemption you will be able to meet up with a friend in your bubble. You both will be able to travel to the club and walk every hole as many times as you want. So long as you don't have a club and ball in your hand.
		
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All courses were closed during the first lockdown until May when restrictions were eased to allow some sport


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## jmf1488 (Nov 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All courses were closed during the first lockdown until May when restrictions were eased to allow some sport
		
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Courses where I am were open to people walking. My club sent emails out when they started treating the fairways with chemicals, told people to stay off them when walking pets.


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## garyinderry (Nov 2, 2020)

I think the courses will stay shut to avoid the "cummings effect". 


If people are to comply with the lock down they need to see everyone treated the same. 

They shut the courses in R.Ireland and Wales. England will likely be no different. 


Not that I agree with this. Its just what I think will happen.


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## Imurg (Nov 2, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			I think the courses will stay shut to avoid the "cummings effect".


If people are to comply with the lock down they need to see everyone treated the same.

They shut the courses in R.Ireland and Wales. England will likely be no different.


Not that I agree with this. Its just what I think will happen.
		
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I think you're probably right..but you don't get if you don't ask..


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## Old Skier (Nov 2, 2020)

Info from BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/54771401


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 2, 2020)

It needs to be challenged. 

Not because I’m desperate to play (which I am) But because of the raft of ludicrous attacks on all our civil liberties that have been rolled / hidden with other more realistic and obvious covid measures. 

I am genuinely concerned about how Britain and more specifically the British people will be managed in a post covid world. If anyone believes that this or any government won’t turn the British people’s acceptance and willingness to participate in the removal of basic civil rights, in a post covid world, then you are kidding yourselves. 

FYI. I am not some anarchist or a person who would normally have thought like the above previously. I’m an ex member of the armed forces and a person that I would describe as being pretty patriotic and aligned with the rule of government and the law. 

However there are far more agendas than just fighting covid at play here and it does not take a genius to work them out. 

It’s pretty worrying imo.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 2, 2020)

jmf1488 said:



			You can literally drive to your golf club alone. Check in while socially distanced. Play 18 holes by yourself or socially distanced from a fellow competitor. What damage are you doing by doing this?
		
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You literally can but it cannot be classed as essential imo.


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## eddie_1878 (Nov 2, 2020)

tugglesf239 said:



			It needs to be challenged.

Not because I’m desperate to play (which I am) But because of the raft of ludicrous attacks on all our civil liberties that have been rolled / hidden with other more realistic and obvious covid measures.

I am genuinely concerned about how Britain and more specifically the British people will be managed in a post covid world. If anyone believes that this or any government won’t turn the British people’s acceptance and willingness to participate in the removal of basic civil rights, in a post covid world, then you are kidding yourselves.

FYI. I am not some anarchist or a person who would normally have thought like the above previously. I’m an ex member of the armed forces and a person that I would describe as being pretty patriotic and aligned with the rule of government and the law.

However there are far more agendas than just fighting covid at play here and it does not take a genius to work them out.

It’s pretty worrying imo.
		
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I’m in a similar boat (excuse the pun). I’m by no means a conspiracy theorist, more the opposite if truth be known, but I can’t help but get the impression the government are ‘probing’ with some of these restrictions. There’s a lot that doesn’t add up.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			You literally can but it cannot be classed as essential imo.
		
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If courses are open then the travel part will be fine and perfectly OK under the guidelines as they stand.


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 2, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			You literally can but it cannot be classed as essential imo.
		
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This is not aimed at you Amanda, far from it.

My question is though, who is defining what is essential or not in life? The government?

I see that as some crude examples of non essential items are books, clothing and electrical goods.

I’d argue very strongly that for modern life all those things are essential. 

Especially to educate, clothe children or to replace a freezer or washing machine etc. 





eddie_1878 said:



			I’m in a similar boat (excuse the pun). I’m by no means a conspiracy theorist, more the opposite if truth be known, but I can’t help but get the impression the government are ‘probing’ with some of these restrictions. There’s a lot that doesn’t add up.
		
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Probing is an excellent term for it.

Day by day the powers that be are pushing the envelope slightly more and more to see how much we will allow them to scratch our belly’s.

Can you imagine a world a year ago whereby people would have actually felt gratitude for the government allowing restrictions on us buying a book from a shop, or being ‘thankful’ that we were allowed to see an older relative during the Christmas period?

I’m conscious that I’m moving the discussion away from the OP and making this more about politics (not my intention as all parties are as bad as each other when it comes to ‘ruling’)

so I’ll wind my neck in a little. 😀

The golf decision does need fighting however. In the same way that other decisions are being challenged.


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## howbow88 (Nov 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All courses were closed during the first lockdown until May when restrictions were eased to allow some sport
		
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Every public course I know of was open for people to walk, and several private clubs were too.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Whether he is in your opinion “Another one overstating it” the ”fact” the Department you listed won’t be able to decide on it as that’s not how Petitions to the UK Government work.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help

Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54781128
snip
Talks between the sports, *Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS)* officials and experts are ongoing, with the the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Golf set to meet on Monday afternoon.


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## GB72 (Nov 2, 2020)

Thing is, you can use statistics to argue anything. There have been no cases of covid in my village and no instances associated with my village pub. On that basis, using the pub and meeting with other people in the village is as safe as playing golf so perhaps there should be a petition to exempt my village from the lockdown.

That is just me playing devils advocate a bit as of course I am not saying that my village or any other should be exempt. 

Whilst I do not see any issue in the act of playing golf, it is the surrounding factors that concern me more. We all know how to act safely and many do but during the last lockdown it did not take long for some to be arranging to meet in roll up groups in the car park and people staying on site to eat food sold as takeaway whilst sitting in the car park having a beer from a case of beer kept in the boot of the car. Sadly golf is no exception to all other areas in that there are people who will push the limits and cross the acceptable boundaries and that is why it should stay banned with everything else.


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## TogoPresley (Nov 2, 2020)

garyinderry said:



			I think the courses will stay shut to avoid the "cummings effect".


If people are to comply with the lock down they need to see everyone treated the same.

They shut the courses in R.Ireland and Wales. England will likely be no different.


Not that I agree with this. Its just what I think will happen.
		
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This is exactly "it" - there are too many idiots out there who see these things as binary issues. The idea that a golf course could be open whilst a pub is closed blows their tiny minds. Plus if golf was allowed to continue, it would be used against the government for allowing recreation for their rich Toff friends.


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## ger147 (Nov 2, 2020)

Latest is the government is not backing down on golf courses closing...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54781128


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## Big Stevo (Nov 2, 2020)

They've already tried a nuanced approach, the Tier system. That didn't work.

Allowing some sports to remain open, whilst others must closed, is another nuanced approach, by the time everyone has had there say and made their case for staying open, what you're left with isn't a lockdown anymore.

The 250,000 golfers on that petition are basically saying, everyone else should lockdown, apart from me.

Whilst i'm not in favour of lockdown, if you're going to do it, then do it fully.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Latest is the government is not backing down on golf courses closing...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54781128

Click to expand...

Just been told by our club office that there is no change in the guidelines. Apparently 250,000 signatures on that petition actually made matters worse.


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## GB72 (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Just been told by our club office that there is no change in the guidelines. Apparently 250,000 signatures on that petition actually made matters worse.
		
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I can sort of understand that. Whilst a simple approach from the golfing authorities may be one thing, the petition immediately put numbers on to it. At least a quarter of a million people looking to travel, meet up, play golf etc. Whilst it shows the level of support the exception had, it also put a number on the amount of people who may be travelling and meeting at the time of a strict lock down and that makes it easier to reject. I think that the right decision has been made.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

If golf were the only sport lobbying to stay open then maybe you could blame the survey, but others have been too. I doubt its made a difference either way


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## drdel (Nov 2, 2020)

We might be thankful we don't reside in France, Italy, Spain or the USA....


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

GB72 said:



			I can sort of understand that. Whilst a simple approach from the golfing authorities may be one thing, the petition immediately put numbers on to it. At least a quarter of a million people looking to travel, meet up, play golf etc. Whilst it shows the level of support the exception had, it also put a number on the amount of people who may be travelling and meeting at the time of a strict lock down and that makes it easier to reject. I think that the right decision has been made.
		
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I’m more than happy to abide by it if that’s the definitive decision. To be honest, 2-balls, if that was the alternative to closing, would have been very difficult to manage with the shorter days.

Oh well. I’ll try and go out on a high on Wednesday.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 2, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Latest is the government is not backing down on golf courses closing...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54781128

Click to expand...

Absolutely the right decision, if we are going to lockdown it should apply to EVERYBODY.

edit: Just had an email from Majestic Wine, they are staying open as an 'essential' retailer


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## doublebogey7 (Nov 2, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Absolutely the right decision, if we are going to lockdown it should apply to EVERYBODY.
		
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Just confirmed in parliament by the PM


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Absolutely the right decision, if we are going to lockdown it should apply to EVERYBODY.
		
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Everybody but with loads of exceptions  (Schools, Builders, DIY stores, Garden Centres, Takeaways, Uni etc etc etc etc etc etc etc)


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 2, 2020)

doublebogey7 said:



			Just confirmed in parliament by the PM
		
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I just wish it was being applied to schools and universities as well as they are currently the biggest spreaders of the virus.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

drive4show said:



			I just wish it was being applied to schools and universities as well as they are currently the biggest spreaders of the virus.
		
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I think you'd have to put hospitality at the top of that list. Next to no SD in anywhere ive walked past and then i'd probably say families meeting indoors are high up too. I've no issue with schools being open, it's fantastic.


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## GB72 (Nov 2, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Absolutely the right decision, if we are going to lockdown it should apply to EVERYBODY.

edit: Just had an email from Majestic Wine, they are staying open as an 'essential' retailer 

Click to expand...

Good luck getting a delivery slot from them. Lat lockdown it was something like a 6 week wait. Luckily found a lock wine supplier that I am still using.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 2, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Good luck getting a delivery slot from them. Lat lockdown it was something like a 6 week wait. Luckily found a lock wine supplier that I am still using.
		
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I've planned ahead, not a single space in the wine rack


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## Fish (Nov 2, 2020)

Let the cabin fever commence, I predict a record amount of infractions & bans to take place over the next 4-weeks 😜


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Good luck getting a delivery slot from them. Lat lockdown it was something like a 6 week wait. Luckily found a lock wine supplier that I am still using.
		
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I believe clcik and collect will still be an option, I assumed that woud apply to all shops.


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## Imurg (Nov 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Let the cabin fever commence, I predict a record amount of infractions & bans to take place over the next 4-weeks 😜
		
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Carnage


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## jimbob.someroo (Nov 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Let the cabin fever commence, I predict a record amount of infractions & bans to take place over the next 4-weeks 😜
		
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I reckon I've picked the right time to start being a bit more active again on here mate 

If nothing else, at least there seems to be some finality to the discussion now following BJ's answers in the House just now.


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2020)

Fish said:



			Let the cabin fever commence, I predict a record amount of infractions & bans to take place over the next 4-weeks 😜
		
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how many we got to beat Fishy


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## fundy (Nov 2, 2020)

jimbob.someroo said:



			I reckon I've picked the right time to start being a bit more active again on here mate 

If nothing else, at least there seems to be some finality to the discussion now following BJ's answers in the House just now.
		
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come on James you must remember nothings ever actually final on here lol


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## jimbob.someroo (Nov 2, 2020)

fundy said:



			come on James you must remember nothings ever actually final on here lol 

Click to expand...

Reminds me bud, which side of the tee should I be on? Might start a new thread to find out ...


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## J55TTC (Nov 2, 2020)

just confirmed that courses will be closed...


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## hovis (Nov 2, 2020)

drive4show said:



			Absolutely the right decision, if we are going to lockdown it should apply to EVERYBODY.

edit: Just had an email from Majestic Wine, they are staying open as an 'essential' retailer 

Click to expand...

But it doesn't apply to everyone.  I can go bike riding with my friend all day.  That's not lockdown


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## NearHull (Nov 2, 2020)

PM just reiterated in HofC that golf clubs (and other sports) will be closed during lockdown v2.0 for consistency.


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## hovis (Nov 2, 2020)

NearHull said:



			PM just reiterated in HofC that golf clubs (and other sports) will be closed during lockdown v2.0 for consistency.
		
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It's not fair, it's simply not fair.   Anyone seen my dummy!!!! 🤣


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

hovis said:



			It's not fair, it's simply not fair.   Anyone seen my dummy!!!! 🤣
		
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🤣🤣🤣😂 quick start a petition.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

I’ll be interested now to see if one contributor here will put his money where his mouth is, and flick two fingers up at the Government, England Golf, his club, and the huge majority of other golfers in this country by continuing to play golf on a closed course.


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## hovis (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I’ll be interested now to see if one contributor here will put his money where his mouth is, and flick two fingers up at the Government, England Golf, his club, and the huge majority of other golfers in this country by continuing to play golf on a closed course.
		
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Nah, he's all talk


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## Imurg (Nov 2, 2020)

hovis said:



			Nah, he's all talk
		
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But he Feels Good..


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			I’ll be interested now to see if one contributor here will put his money where his mouth is, and flick two fingers up at the Government, England Golf, his club, and the huge majority of other golfers in this country by continuing to play golf on a closed course.
		
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If you want to be thrown out just do it.
We were warned last time anyone playing during lockdown would be out!
What I don’t understand is the kids in school are still doing PE ??? .


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If you want to be thrown out just do it.
We were warned last time anyone playing during lockdown would be out!
What I don’t understand is the kids in school are still doing PE ??? .
		
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Surely you'd just bunk on someone's else's course.😉
PE is an important part of school. At my daughter's school they have to wear the kit to school on the days they do PE and keep it on all day.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

JohnnyDee said:



			Not sure if this is true but got a message from a golf mate just now that Johnson has confirmed courses will be closing Thursday.
		
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Lol... You're a little late to the party.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Surely you'd just bunk on someone's else's course.😉
PE is an important part of school. At my daughter's school they have to wear the kit to school on the days they do PE and keep it on all day.
		
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Your just on a wind up now.


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## JohnnyDee (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Lol... You're a little late to the party.
		
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Ah yes been out playing earlier and hadn't heard.


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## hovis (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Your just on a wind up now.
		
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Seriously though.  If you was stupid enough to break the rules you'd have to be extremely stupid to do it on your own course


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## Whydowedoit (Nov 2, 2020)

Come thursday, none of you will want to play Golf. The weather always turns really cold & winter like on 5th November!


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## sunshine (Nov 2, 2020)

Whydowedoit said:



			Come thursday, none of you will want to play Golf. The weather always turns really cold & winter like on 5th November!
		
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Nah, now that courses are closing it will be warm, dry and sunny for the next 4 weeks


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

My clubs confirmed our direct debits will be frozen again 

I just hope they use this time to do some much needed drainage work


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Your just on a wind up now.
		
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It's not a wind up, if I were minded to bunk on a course and play some golf, it wouldn't be my own.


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## howbow88 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			It's not a wind up, if I were minded to bunk on a course and play some golf, it wouldn't be my own.
		
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That's what I did last time


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## KenL (Nov 2, 2020)

drive4show said:



			I just wish it was being applied to schools and universities as well as they are currently the biggest spreaders of the virus.
		
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I don’t think they are.  Have you evidence of that being the case?


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## TogoPresley (Nov 2, 2020)

Big Stevo said:



			They've already tried a nuanced approach, the Tier system. That didn't work.

Allowing some sports to remain open, whilst others must closed, is another nuanced approach, by the time everyone has had there say and made their case for staying open, what you're left with isn't a lockdown anymore.

The 250,000 golfers on that petition are basically saying, everyone else should lockdown, apart from me.

Whilst i'm not in favour of lockdown, if you're going to do it, then do it fully.
		
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No - I think they are saying that playing golf in 2-ball format under existing, already restricted conditions is a low risk exercise option. What we are getting isn't lockdown - shops are open, deliveries, building work etc continues. They simply can't be seen offering a nuanced approach because it's political.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			It's not a wind up, if I were minded to bunk on a course and play some golf, it wouldn't be my own.
		
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So not only breaking the law by playing golf ,but trespassing as well. 
what about paying your green fee ?


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

hovis said:



			Seriously though.  If you was stupid enough to break the rules you'd have to be extremely stupid to do it on your own course
		
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Yes it is stupid I agree.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So not only breaking the law by playing golf ,but trespassing as well.
what about paying your green fee ?
		
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Note the term bunk on.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 2, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			So not only breaking the law by playing golf ,but trespassing as well.
what about paying your green fee ?
		
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Leave it. Nothing but a wind up merchant


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Leave it. Nothing but a wind up merchant
		
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Sorry but I fail to see what there is to be wound up about? I'm just pointing stuff out , but I guess this forums propensity to overreact shouldn't surprise me any more.


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## rulefan (Nov 2, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Good luck getting a delivery slot from them. Lat lockdown it was something like a 6 week wait. Luckily found a lock wine supplier that I am still using.
		
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Just ordered a case from Naked Wines. Coming Friday


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

Just drive up to Scotland for a game.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 2, 2020)

Nichola won’t let you in.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

She can try and stop me.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

I despair. Genuinely, I do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 2, 2020)

Well at some stage we have all had some closure of the courses with Ireland the worst hit with a 6 week closure. I’m sure the 4 weeks will fly by


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well at some stage we have all had some closure of the courses with Ireland the worst hit with a 6 week closure. I’m sure the 4 weeks will fly by
		
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Not fast enough for some, judging by some comments here over the last couple of days.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

If I can travel to Scotland for work during the week, what difference is it staying an extra night to play golf the next day?


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

One is work, one isn’t. You work it out.


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## IanM (Nov 2, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well at some stage we have all had some closure of the courses with Ireland the worst hit with a 6 week closure. I’m sure the 4 weeks will fly by
		
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With the current weather, folk might not be playing a lot of golf anyway.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

So it’s ok to mix with lots of people at work in Scotland, but I can’t go to play golf whilst I’m there. If I’m residing in Scotland for work which isn’t under national lockdown, and there are courses are open I am well with my rights to play golf, go to the gym,etc.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 2, 2020)

Trapdraw said:



			If I can travel to Scotland for work during the week, what difference is it staying an extra night to play golf the next day?
		
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I always turn down Faslane on the Rota and offer the single lads who want the money go instead. I better go on a four week jolly in feb just in case.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

Trapdraw said:



			So it’s ok to mix with lots of people at work in Scotland, but I can’t go to play golf whilst I’m there. If I’m residing in Scotland for work which isn’t under national lockdown, and there are courses are open I am well with my rights to play golf, go to the gym,etc.
		
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If you live in England which, judging by your earlier posts you do, then the guidelines are pretty clear. You can leave home for very defined reasons.

You’ll excuse me for pointing out what is blindingly obvious to 99.9% of us, but nowhere does it say you can leave home in England, cross the border into another country of the U.K., and live by their rules for a couple of days just so you can squeeze in a game of golf.

The debate has raged here for the whole weekend about whether or not golf courses should remain open. Most were of the opinion they should, but nevertheless said they would abide by the rules if those rules meant clubs had to shut.

I know I am not alone in being sick to death of what is going on in the world. We all are. But what really grinds my gears is when I see people either pleading ignorance or putting their own spin on what are a clear set of rules, or worse still just plain ignoring them, because they are either too arrogant or just plain selfish to the point that they either can’t see that they are part of the problem, or simply don’t care.

Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the last seven months isn’t the virus, or the death and chaos it’s leaving in its wake. It’s the moronic behaviour of those who think the rules don’t apply to them.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

If I’m in Scotland working, I am well within my rights to go to a gym, driving range etc.

Just do as Boris tells you, you good little sheep.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			If you live in England which, judging by your earlier posts you do, then the guidelines are pretty clear. You can leave home for very defined reasons.

You’ll excuse me for pointing out what is blindingly obvious to 99.9% of us, but nowhere does it say you can leave home in England, cross the border into another country of the U.K., and live by their rules for a couple of days just so you can squeeze in a game of golf.

The debate has raged here for the whole weekend about whether or not golf courses should remain open. Most were of the opinion they should, but nevertheless said they would abide by the rules if those rules meant clubs had to shut.

I know I am not alone in being sick to death of what is going on in the world. We all are. But what really grinds my gears is when I see people either pleading ignorance or putting their own spin on what are a clear set of rules, or worse still just plain ignoring them, because they are either too arrogant or just plain selfish to the point that they either can’t see that they are part of the problem, or simply don’t care.

Perhaps the most depressing aspect of the last seven months isn’t the virus, or the death and chaos it’s leaving in its wake. It’s the moronic behaviour of those who think the rules don’t apply to them.
		
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surely you just obey the laws of where ever you happen to be? If he's staying in Scotland for work then he can play golf if the courses are open.


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## 126849660 (Nov 2, 2020)

Trapdraw said:



			If I’m in Scotland working, I am well within my rights to go to a gym, driving range etc.

Just do as Boris tells you, you good little sheep.
		
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If your up in Glasgow message me ill happily have a round of golf with you at my course


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

Trapdraw said:



			If I’m in Scotland working, I am well within my rights to go to a gym, driving range etc.

Just do as Boris tells you, you good little sheep.
		
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No, you’re not. Read the rules which will apply to those LIVING in England from this Thursday. They are crystal clear.

And please, less of the petty personal silliness. It’s absolutely unnecessary.


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## robinthehood (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			No, you’re not. Read the rules which will apply to those LIVING in England from this Thursday. They are crystal clear.

And please, less of the petty personal silliness. It’s absolutely unnecessary.
		
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If youre in Scotland you go by scotlands rules.


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## sunshine (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			It's not a wind up, if I were minded to bunk on a course and play some golf, it wouldn't be my own.
		
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You want to pick a course where it's very quiet and secluded, there's a lot of land, and many of the holes are a long way from the clubhouse. Somewhere like Wentworth or Sunningdale would be ideal.


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## howbow88 (Nov 2, 2020)

sunshine said:



			You want to pick a course where it's very quiet and secluded, there's a lot of land, and many of the holes are a long way from the clubhouse. Somewhere like Wentworth or Sunningdale would be ideal.
		
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This is why I started my round at Augusta on the 13th


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## pauljames87 (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			If youre in Scotland you go by scotlands rules.
		
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Not sure that's correct , Im currently tier 2 and if I travel to tier 1 I have to act as though I'm tier 2 there


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			surely you just obey the laws of where ever you happen to be? If he's staying in Scotland for work then he can play golf if the courses are open.
		
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England is in lockdown from Thursday, the rules applying to everyone who lives here. I think we both know it’s not quite as simple as what is being suggested, the same as it wasn’t in the three tier system.

If you lived in Tier 3 last week you couldn’t travel to a lower Tier simply to dodge the rules. You had to follow the rules which were in place where you lived, regardless of where you were.

I am quite sure the same applies here, and I am equally sure he knows it. Why else are the Welsh authorities saying anyone nipping over the border for a pint next week will be turned back?


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			If youre in Scotland you go by scotlands rules.
		
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Yes. If you live there. He doesn’t.


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## sunshine (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			England is in lockdown from Thursday, the rules applying to everyone who lives here. I think we both know it’s not quite as simple as what is being suggested, the same as it wasn’t in the three tier system.

If you lived in Tier 3 last week you couldn’t travel to a lower Tier simply to dodge the rules. You had to follow the rules which were in place where you lived, regardless of where you were.

I am quite sure the same applies here, and I am equally sure he knows it. Why else are the Welsh authorities saying anyone nipping over the border for a pint next week will be turned back?
		
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Sorry but that is rubbish. If you travelled to Sweden, or France or any other country, you follow the rules of that country. You don't go to another country and follow the English rules, just because you're English.


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## hovis (Nov 2, 2020)

[/QUOTE]



Billysboots said:



			Yes. If you live there. He doesn’t.
		
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So are you saying that whilst he is staying in Scotland for a few days he has to adhere to English rules?


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

If I’m living in a hotel for a week, I live there for that week, so Scotland’s rules apply. If Scotland was in full lockdown and I happen to be Working there Scotland’s rules apply. It’s exactly the same as people going abroad now to avoid lockdown, the country you’re going to rules apply not the one you’ve left behind.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Sorry but that is rubbish. If you travelled to Sweden, or France or any other country, you follow the rules of that country. You don't go to another country and follow the English rules, just because you're English.
		
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The bloke is an idiot, ignore him.

I have a friend who travels abroad for work, during our first lockdown he went to Denmark for a weeks work, do you think he locked himself away in his room after work until the next morning because that is what was happening back in the UK? 😂😂😂


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Sorry but that is rubbish. If you travelled to Sweden, or France or any other country, you follow the rules of that country. You don't go to another country and follow the English rules, just because you're English.
		
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We’re not talking about Sweden or France. We’re talking about the U.K. The guidance on travel is there for all to see on the Government website;

“people cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons.”

Travelling to another part of the U.K. to dodge the rules where you live does not feature. Read this individual’s post - he’s travelling to Scotland for work, intending to stop an extra night so he can play golf.

It’s a breach of guidelines and I suspect he knows it.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

hovis said:



			So are you saying that whilst he is staying in Scotland for a few days he has to adhere to English rules?
		
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Read the rules relating to travel. They are really clear.

I’m not going to become further embroiled in a debate with this individual. If he can’t rise above petty name calling it’s quite clear what type of person he is.


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## hovis (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Read the rules relating to travel. They are really clear.

I’m not going to become further embroiled in a debate with this individual. If he can’t rise above petty name calling it’s quite clear what type of person he is.
		
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I have read the rules. I can't see where it says you must return to England the instant your business is complete and must not go the gym or play golf on the way back over the boarder. By your argument he can't use the gym in the hotel


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			We’re not talking about Sweden or France. We’re talking about the U.K. The guidance of travel is there for all to see on the Government website;

“people cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons.”

Travelling to another part of the U.K. to dodge the rules where you live does not feature. Read this individual’s post - he’s travelling to Scotland for work, intending to stop an extra night so he can play golf.

It’s a breach of guidelines and I suspect he knows it.
		
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I am not travelling to Scotland to play golf, I’m travelling there to work. Under current Scottish rules golf is allowed, golf is not allowed in England from thursday. Since I’ll be in Scotland not England I’ll not be breaching any rules.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

I’ll post a pic of the course, while you sit in the house with your mask on. 👍😂😂


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## sunshine (Nov 2, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			This is why I started my round at Augusta on the 13th 

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Although the security guards at Augusta probably carry guns, and aren't afraid to use them. Whereas at Royal St Georges the worst you might encounter is somebody brandishing a rolled up copy of the Daily Telegraph.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

hovis said:



			I have read the rules.  I can't see where it says you must return to England the instant your business is complete and must not go the gym or play golf on the way back over the boarder.  By your argument he can't use the gym in the hotel
		
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You can stay away from home overnight for work purposes. He is talking about staying an extra night simply to tag on a game of golf. So in answer to your question relating to him playing golf on the way home, the answer would appear to be no. 

Let’s not miss the point here. Read his opening couple of posts. The first suggested he was going to cross the border to Scotland to play, the second sought to justify it by suggesting he was going to tag an extra night onto a work trip for that purpose.

The advice is to limit travel, and that overnight stays away from home are for a very limited number of reasons only. I think we both know that this is just someone trying to justify a game of golf elsewhere because he can’t follow guidelines for four weeks like the rest of us.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

Trapdraw said:



			I’ll post a pic of the course, while you sit in the house with your mask on. 👍😂😂
		
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Just as long as I’m not in ICU with a mask on because I’ve caught the lurgy from someone who thought they were above the rules 😉


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

Trapdraw said:



			Just drive up to Scotland for a game.
		
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There it is. Clear as day. However it is  you’ve then tried to justify yourself.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			You can stay away from home overnight for work purposes. He is talking about staying an extra night simply to tag on a game of golf. So in answer to your question relating to him playing golf on the way home, the answer would appear to be no.

Let’s not miss the point here. Read his opening couple of posts. The first suggested he was going to cross the border to Scotland to play, the second sought to justify it by suggesting he was going to tag an extra night onto a work trip for that purpose.

The advice is to limit travel, and that overnight stays away from home are for a very limited number of reasons only. I think we both know that this is just someone trying to justify a game of golf elsewhere because he can’t follow guidelines for four weeks like the rest of us.
		
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If I’m staying in Scotland for a number of weeks, I follow Scotland’s rules. It’s just a bonus that includes open gyms and open golf courses.

It will be the exact opposite for anyone from Scotland having to work in England during lockdown. They are in England so follow English rules.

I don’t know how you can’t understand that?


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			There it is. Clear as day. However it is  you’ve then tried to justify yourself.
		
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I’m not trying to justify anything, Its a statement. If I want to drive to Scotland for a game, I will. I only live an hours drive from Scotland and know lots of people who are members of courses around the borders.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

Trapdraw said:



			If I’m staying in Scotland for a number of weeks, I follow Scotland’s rules. It’s just a bonus that includes open gyms and open golf courses.

It will be the exact opposite for anyone from Scotland having to work in England during lockdown. They are in England so follow English rules.

I don’t know how you can’t understand that?
		
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So it’s now a number of weeks?

That’s a bit different from “Just drive up to Scotland for a game”! You’ll be justifying yourself next by telling me you’ve sold up in England and plan to take up permanent residency!

Listen, we’ve all had enough of all this. I have. You have. Everyone. And tempers are clearly starting to fray on all sides.

I’m just going to say whatever you decide to do, stay safe and respect those around you. I really have no wish to fall out with someone I don’t even know, all because of a game of golf.


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## Trapdraw (Nov 2, 2020)

Billysboots said:



			Just as long as I’m not in ICU with a mask on because I’ve caught the lurgy from someone who thought they were above the rules 😉
		
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I have zero respect for Boris and his rules, I have a friend who has cancer which has not been treated for months due to the first lockdown, which has now spread and is terminal. So fek Boris and his lockdown rules.

When I’m working in Scotland during lockdown you can put money on I’ll be trying to play golf.


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## Billysboots (Nov 2, 2020)

Time to call a truce on this one, I think. We’ll have to agree to disagree. But don’t lose sight of what matters - the need for all of us to make decisions which keep us all safe.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 2, 2020)

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/

You can play golf.

See travel between Scotland and the  U.K. and section on exceptions.

Just asks you “please don’t see these as loopholes”.

And guidance for travelling with in U.K. see “travelling from England to other U.K. nations”

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronav...s#travelling-from-england-to-other-uk-nations

I would check ahead if a course will accept you mind. Very good if your out of work and abit of cash aside for a “stay and play”.


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## Jacko_G (Nov 3, 2020)

Love the selfishness, love the drama, might hold off on my ban for another few weeks this is just getting good.

🍿 🍿


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## CliveW (Nov 3, 2020)

There are travel restrictions within Scotland. Within Tier 3 you are permitted to travel around 5 miles for golf and in Tier 2 you are permitted to travel freely within your local authority area.
https://scottishgolf.org/2nd-november-covid-19-update/


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 3, 2020)

KenL said:



			I don’t think they are.  Have you evidence of that being the case?
		
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Personally I don't have any but there were numerous reports and comments in the media at the weekend that this is the case. Andrew Marr show etc.

Edit: Here are some sources
https://www.tes.com/news/revealed-sage-warning-over-schools-spreading-covid

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...land-wales-will-spread-into-local-communities

https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/n...s-outbreaks-england-spreading-mostly-schools/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/27/alarm-spread-covid-19-french-schools-universities/

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/...covid-coronavirus-pandemic-in-person-teaching


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## GB72 (Nov 3, 2020)

I am just loving the irony on here at the moment. On one thread 'the rules are too complicated and confusing and so people breach them' then a simple blanket ban is imposed to keep it easy to understand 'well that's not fair, surely this should be allowed'. 

Amazing how quickly people forget the last lockdown. How quickly did that move from 'I would happily play on my own' to 'surely I can play with someone in my household' to 'surely 2 balls are alright' to 'we do not have enough tee times for only 2 balls, surely 4 balls are fine' to 'OK why can I not arrange a roll up, we can find different ways to hand over money and arrange groups' to 'OK, why can the club not also sell takeaways' to 'if we are outside, surely we can eat the takeaway together in the car park' to 'I know, I'll bring some beers and we can have a few in the car park afterwards' etc. You can see where I am going, people are never happy. The ban was the simplest and best option.


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## eddie_1878 (Nov 3, 2020)

GB72 said:



			I am just loving the irony on here at the moment. On one thread 'the rules are too complicated and confusing and so people breach them' then a simple blanket ban is imposed to keep it easy to understand 'well that's not fair, surely this should be allowed'.

Amazing how quickly people forget the last lockdown. How quickly did that move from 'I would happily play on my own' to 'surely I can play with someone in my household' to 'surely 2 balls are alright' to 'we do not have enough tee times for only 2 balls, surely 4 balls are fine' to 'OK why can I not arrange a roll up, we can find different ways to hand over money and arrange groups' to 'OK, why can the club not also sell takeaways' to 'if we are outside, surely we can eat the takeaway together in the car park' to 'I know, I'll bring some beers and we can have a few in the car park afterwards' etc. You can see where I am going, people are never happy. The ban was the simplest and best option.
		
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Some fair points there.


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## robinthehood (Nov 3, 2020)

GB72 said:



			I am just loving the irony on here at the moment. On one thread 'the rules are too complicated and confusing and so people breach them' then a simple blanket ban is imposed to keep it easy to understand 'well that's not fair, surely this should be allowed'.

Amazing how quickly people forget the last lockdown. How quickly did that move from 'I would happily play on my own' to 'surely I can play with someone in my household' to 'surely 2 balls are alright' to 'we do not have enough tee times for only 2 balls, surely 4 balls are fine' to 'OK why can I not arrange a roll up, we can find different ways to hand over money and arrange groups' to 'OK, why can the club not also sell takeaways' to 'if we are outside, surely we can eat the takeaway together in the car park' to 'I know, I'll bring some beers and we can have a few in the car park afterwards' etc. You can see where I am going, people are never happy. The ban was the simplest and best option.
		
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Things that can carry on safely should have remained open. A blanket ban in the 1st lockdown was fair enough, but we've learned a lot since then and this time round we could and should have been a lot smarter.
A lot of places have spent a great deal of time, effort and money in making sure they are safe and to just throw that back in thier face is piss poor imo.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Things that can carry on safely should have remained open. A blanket ban in the 1st lockdown was fair enough, but we've learned a lot since then and this time round we could and should have been a lot smarter.
A lot of places have spent a great deal of time, effort and money in making sure they are safe and to just throw that back in thier face is piss poor imo.
		
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As mentioned elsewhere - in a huge irony it is possible that the size of the petition highlighted to ministers the potential scale of the risk associated with golf (if they needed further evidence to support their decision).


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## pauljames87 (Nov 3, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			As mentioned elsewhere - in a huge irony it is possible that the size of the petition highlighted to ministers the potential scale of the risk associated with golf (if they needed further evidence to support their decision).
		
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Plus when you think about it many people will take up golf

The courses will be busier than normal at this time of year 

More risk


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## GB72 (Nov 3, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Things that can carry on safely should have remained open. A blanket ban in the 1st lockdown was fair enough, but we've learned a lot since then and this time round we could and should have been a lot smarter.
A lot of places have spent a great deal of time, effort and money in making sure they are safe and to just throw that back in thier face is piss poor imo.
		
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Part of me agrees but part of me also saw too many examples of people ignoring those very safe procedures that were put in place (people were joining up as 4 balls as soon as they were out of view of the clubhouse pretty much from day 1 last time). Look at social media, look at youtube videos, there are group photos, people sharing kit and buggies etc all over the place. Yes, many behave but there are people who spoil it for everyone. If everyone behaved, we would still be in pubs and restaurants and meeting friends. Golfers are no more innocent or guilty of misbehaving as any other group but they are not all pillars of virtue as they are trying to claim at the moment.  

The other fact is the numbers. When you are trying to limit the numbers of people making non essential trips then get handed a petition saying that at least  quarter of a million people want to travel to and from their golf clubs, really what choice do you have other than a blanket ban.


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## robinthehood (Nov 3, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			As mentioned elsewhere - in a huge irony it is possible that the size of the petition highlighted to ministers the potential scale of the risk associated with golf (if they needed further evidence to support their decision).
		
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Golf is just one of many things that could have carried on safely.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Golf is just one of many things that could have carried on safely.
		
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Yes - perhaps each of many activities could have carried on _relatively _safely - but ALL activities? - then the relative safety of each activity individually changes to relatively risky as an aggregated whole.  The virus doesn't choose a sport or activity as a source - and doesn't feel it's job is done once it's started in one context - it starts spreading wherever and whenever it gets the opportunity - and will start spreading as frequently as opportunities present.


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## robinthehood (Nov 3, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - perhaps each of many activities could have carried on _relatively _safely - but ALL activities? - then the relative safety of each activity individually changes to relatively risky as an aggregated whole.
		
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WHo said all? thats just daft


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			WHo said all? thats just daft
		
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It's just how I see it.  The relative safety of each individual activity in isolation does not change, but when multiple activities are continued then (as I see it) the risk to the community as a whole from continuing all activities is higher than that for each activity in isolation.

It's probability and likelihood of occurrence. Roll a die once and you might get a six but likelihood (1:6) is that you won't. Roll a die enough times and you will most probably roll a six before long.  It's not Russian Roulette as with that you'll eventually fire the bullet - and with a die you might never roll a six.  But I wouldn't bet my house on it.


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## Diamond (Nov 3, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Good luck getting a delivery slot from them. Lat lockdown it was something like a 6 week wait. Luckily found a lock wine supplier that I am still using.
		
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Ordered earlier and had a call to say delivery Saturday.


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## GB72 (Nov 3, 2020)

Diamond said:



			Ordered earlier and had a call to say delivery Saturday.
		
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Good effort, luckily I found a local supplier that stocks all the pubs in my area. Normally as long as I put in the order in the morning it is there by the afternoon.


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## Diamond (Nov 3, 2020)

Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives...Eat Out To Help Out...What a shambles.

My local hospital is


GB72 said:



			Good effort, luckily I found a local supplier that stocks all the pubs in my area. Normally as long as I put in the order in the morning it is there by the afternoon.
		
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Nice one. Majestic does a wonderful Sicilian red number which I am quite partial too.
I also get my ale direct from the brewery’s. My favourites are Tiny Rebel and Red Willow.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 3, 2020)

One does wonder how many of those that are happy to break lockdown rules, are unhappy that some golfers want to wear a hoodie or a cap inside. Because they are the rules 🤷


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## GB72 (Nov 3, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			One does wonder how many of those that are happy to break lockdown rules, are unhappy that some golfers want to wear a hoodie or a cap inside. Because they are the rules 🤷
		
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It is another lovely irony that golfers are so happy to quote 'because its the rules' when people question dress codes, admission policies etc but now the rules in this case do not follow what they want, they are up in arms about it.


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## SteveW86 (Nov 3, 2020)

The tee booking sheet for the club is looking very busy for tomorrow


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## AmandaJR (Nov 3, 2020)

We've had an email to confirm closure from close of business on Wednesday until 2nd December.


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## robinthehood (Nov 3, 2020)

GB72 said:



			It is another lovely irony that golfers are so happy to quote 'because its the rules' when people question dress codes, admission policies etc but now the rules in this case do not follow what they want, they are up in arms about it.
		
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Who's up in arms? Getting a little OTT there.


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## Crazyface (Nov 3, 2020)

Well I got that completely wrong didn't I.  Still no worries, it's hissing down here, my course was shut on Monday, and seeing as I've got one last game booked in for tomorrow, fully expect it to be shut again.  

Not to worry, all those professionals are immune to this covid stuff. Maybe we should have a shot of their blood?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 3, 2020)

Not had a an official communication from the club but had already resigned myself to the golfing fate. I had planned to wander up to the club after work for a last hurrah in the bar for a while. Guess the net is getting a go at the weekend


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## GB72 (Nov 3, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Who's up in arms? Getting a little OTT there.
		
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Social media would suggest that the world of ending as a result of this


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## robinthehood (Nov 3, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Social media would suggest that the world of ending as a result of this
		
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Social media is always angry about something.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 3, 2020)

Crazyface said:



			Well I got that completely wrong didn't I.  Still no worries, it's hissing down here, my course was shut on Monday, and seeing as I've got one last game booked in for tomorrow, fully expect it to be shut again. 

Not to worry, all those professionals are immune to this covid stuff. Maybe we should have a shot of their blood?
		
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Which professionals ? 

Do you mean the ones that are constantly tested on a daily basis ?


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## Old Skier (Nov 3, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which professionals ?

Do you mean the ones that are constantly tested on a daily basis ?
		
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Don’t encourage him


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## GB72 (Nov 3, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Social media is always angry about something.
		
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Fair point well made😁


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 3, 2020)

AmandaJR said:



			We've had an email to confirm closure from close of business on Wednesday until 2nd December.
		
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From our Chairman today '...to Wednesday, 2nd December or until the government terminate the lockdown rules'.

We are retaining all the greens staff and they will be able to concentrate their efforts on the major planned bunker work we have planned for the Winter - and so will minimise the disruption to play when we are able to re-open the course.  Financially that's also good as we won't need the team to be doing so much O/T or need to bring in as much contract labour for that work.  So that's a little 'silver' lining tinging the dark cloud.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 3, 2020)

Well that didn't take long; the first exemption has been made to allow pubs to sell takeaway beer.  And there's absolutely no chance of people who are collecting their takeaway beer congregating and drinking it is there?

I thought that there were to be no exemptions when golf asked for one because it muddied the waters, so someone please explain this one to me.

What world are we living in when pubs & off-licences are deemed essential & remain open yet there was a ban on selling women's sanitary products because they weren't essential.  We really are beyond help.


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## robinthehood (Nov 3, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Well that didn't take long; the first exemption has been made to allow pubs to sell takeaway beer.  And there's absolutely no chance of people who are collecting their takeaway beer congregating and drinking it is there?

I thought that there were to be no exemptions when golf asked for one because it muddied the waters, so someone please explain this one to me.

What world are we living in when pubs & off-licences are deemed essential & remain open yet there was a ban on selling women's sanitary products because they weren't essential.  We really are beyond help.
		
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There was  no  ban on sanitary products, just some mixup in a Welsh Tesco


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## Fish (Nov 4, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			There was  no  ban on sanitary products, just some mixup in a Welsh Tesco
		
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How, did they get the Rams mixed up with the Sheep 😜


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## Old Skier (Nov 4, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			There was  no  ban on sanitary products, just some mixup in a Welsh Tesco
		
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Don’t spoil his disguised political attack.


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## robinthehood (Nov 4, 2020)

I'm on the 9th tee and the ranger is following along behind taking all the flags and tee markers 🤣


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## CliveW (Nov 4, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I'm on the 9th tee and the ranger is following along behind taking all the flags and tee markers 🤣
		
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It's pitch black, no way could you play the back nine anyway!


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## robinthehood (Nov 4, 2020)

CliveW said:



			It's pitch black, no way could you play the back nine anyway!
		
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Teed off at 3:10 and 2 of us just squeezed in 9 holes. Was quite busy out too. He asked at the 9th tee how many more holes we were playing!!


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## 5OTT (Nov 4, 2020)

I would have liked to see the courses stay open but in a way i am glad they stood by the decision, every sport could argue their point to stay open with varying degrees of mitigation. If it going to be a case of 4 weeks and then back open then so be it.

497 deaths today suggests something has to be done, if staying off a golf course for a few weeks helps then fair enough.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 4, 2020)

5OTT said:



			I would have liked to see the courses stay open but in a way i am glad they stood by the decision, every sport could argue their point to stay open with varying degrees of mitigation. If it going to be a case of 4 weeks and then back open then so be it.

497 deaths today suggests something has to be done, if staying off a golf course for a few weeks helps then fair enough.
		
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..and not just staying off the golf course - but not travelling to it also helps.  And IMO every little helps, as every little or seemingly inconsequential risk aggregates to a larger risk with consequences.


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## robinthehood (Nov 4, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			..and not just staying off the golf course - but not travelling to it also helps.  And IMO every little helps, as every little or seemingly inconsequential risk aggregates to a larger risk with consequences.
		
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How does not traveling to the GC help? I would go on my own or with my son


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## Ssshank (Nov 4, 2020)

As it is a respiratory disease increasing lung capacity is key, most people wouldn't walk 5/6 miles, yet when they play golf they can easily achieve this without noticing.

Also with that in mind, the weather will on deteriorate from here on in. Realistically this is the last month you can reasonably enjoy golf, come December/Jan you are very lucky to get a game in with course closures, frost exc.


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## Foxholer (Nov 4, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			As it is a respiratory disease increasing lung capacity is key, most people wouldn't walk 5/6 miles, yet when they play golf they can easily achieve this without noticing.

Also with that in mind, the weather will on deteriorate from here on in. Realistically this is the last month you can reasonably enjoy golf, come December/Jan you are very lucky to get a game in with course closures, frost exc.
		
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So what! The 'responsible' response is to point out that Golf is somewhat different from other 'activities' but accept that in the best interests of the entire country, 1 or 2 (or 4) rounds of Golf are nothing if acceptance means a number of potential fatalities (elsewhere) avoid that fate!

Oh, and a round of Golf doesn't help with lung capacity unless either an extraordinary amount of hill work is involved or golfers 'sprint' around the course! Golf is a 'gentle' exercise...beneficial, but NOT aerobic!


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 4, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			There was  no  ban on sanitary products, just some mixup in a Welsh Tesco
		
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Did someone pull some strings?

I'll get my coat.


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## Golfnut1957 (Nov 4, 2020)

5OTT said:



			I would have liked to see the courses stay open but in a way i am glad they stood by the decision, every sport could argue their point to stay open with varying degrees of mitigation. If it going to be a case of 4 weeks and then back open then so be it.

497 deaths today suggests something has to be done, if staying off a golf course for a few weeks helps then fair enough.
		
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I have three workmen coming in to my house on Monday to fit a new worktop. I can go into a DIY store to buy anything I need to fit my new kitchen. I can go to a supermarket, a chippy, an Indian or even a pub and get a take way. I can go to work. I can have 1-2-1 fitness instruction outdoors, I can meet a friend in a park or other open space, and I have just been informed that thanks to a change of heart by the government I can have horse riding lessons.....................but I can't go to a golf course with one other, or even on my own and play a game of golf.

Crazy. I will do what I have to do to protect others, but someone explain that to me.


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## Ssshank (Nov 4, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			So what! The 'responsible' response is to point out that Golf is somewhat different from other 'activities' but accept that in the best interests of the entire country, 1 or 2 (or 4) rounds of Golf are nothing if acceptance means a number of potential fatalities (elsewhere) avoid that fate!

Oh, and a round of Golf doesn't help with lung capacity unless either an extraordinary amount of hill work is involved or golfers 'sprint' around the course! Golf is a 'gentle' exercise...beneficial, but NOT aerobic!
		
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The responsible thing is to allow all sports to continue as there's no statistical benefit in closing them.

Their policies are backwards, defying logic and rationale. 

I would beg to differ especially when carrying your bag.


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## Foxholer (Nov 4, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			The responsible thing is to allow all sports to continue as there's no statistical benefit in closing them.
...
		
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It's unlikely there's any meaningful stats on any 'sports' - pro or con! But the likelihood is that the more contacts, the more likelihood of transmission!


Ssshank said:



			...
Their policies are backwards, defying logic and rationale.
...
		
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IYO! I believe you are biased!


Ssshank said:



			...
I would beg to differ especially when carrying your bag.
		
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Still not particularly aerobic!
And making 'carrying your bag' a pre-requisite for allowing golf to be played is simply ridiculously impractical! You are simply trying to find excuses to continue to play!


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## Ssshank (Nov 4, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			It's unlikely there's any meaningful stats on any 'sports' - pro or con! But the likelihood is that the more contacts, the more likelihood of transmission!

IYO! I believe you are biased!

Still not particularly aerobic!
And making 'carrying your bag' a pre-requisite for allowing golf to be played is simply ridiculously impractical! You are simply trying to find excuses to continue to play!
		
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Hmm, you're taking my words out of context.

It may not be particular aerobic but the prolonged walk is more than what most would do as they wouldn't go for a walk for the sake of walking, massively impacting lung function not forgetting the age of most golfers 65+.

Edited by Moderator to remove political comments


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## Foxholer (Nov 4, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			..
It may not be particular aerobic.....
		
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Which destroys your entire argument of your earlier post!!

I agree, it's 'beneficial exercise', but it would be far better to swim a few/several lengths regularly if increasing 'lung strength' is the aim!
Golf is actually little, if any, better exercise (per hour) than gardening!


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## Ssshank (Nov 4, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			Which destroys your entire argument of your earlier post!!

I agree, it's 'beneficial exercise', but it would be far better to swim a few/several lengths regularly if increasing 'lung strength' is the aim!
Golf is actually little, if any, better exercise (per hour) than gardening!
		
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It may not be aerobic in some instances but it is clearly beneficial as 'When comparing golfers and non-golfers, the researchers found that the golfers were 40% less likely to have died than non-golfers of the same age within the time frame they examined'. 

Plus the main participating group falls into the at-risk category where lung function falls at a significantly greater rate.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 4, 2020)

Closed until the end of lockdown (or we get an announcement to the alternative) so went up there to help with stock control and try and deplete beer stocks so they don't go off


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## Foxholer (Nov 5, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			It may not be aerobic in some instances but it is clearly beneficial as 'When comparing golfers and non-golfers, the researchers found that the golfers were 40% less likely to have died than non-golfers of the same age within the time frame they examined'.
...
		
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That stat means/shows/proves absolutely zilch!
Just remember the truism about statistics 'There are three kinds of Lies: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics'.


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## Crumplezone (Nov 5, 2020)

Golfnut1957 said:



			I have three workmen coming in to my house on Monday to fit a new worktop. I can go into a DIY store to buy anything I need to fit my new kitchen. I can go to a supermarket, a chippy, an Indian or even a pub and get a take way. I can go to work. I can have 1-2-1 fitness instruction outdoors, I can meet a friend in a park or other open space, and I have just been informed that thanks to a change of heart by the government I can have horse riding lessons.....................but I can't go to a golf course with one other, or even on my own and play a game of golf.

Crazy. I will do what I have to do to protect others, but someone explain that to me.
		
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Some of the rules don't make sense. That has always been the case since this started. Science is not always the deciding factor. Make of that what you will.


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## DanFST (Nov 5, 2020)

Golfnut1957 said:



			but I can't go to a golf course with one other, or even on my own and play a game of golf.
		
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You can legally dress up in your golf gear and walk around the course with your friend from another house. As long as you don't hit a ball.


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## Hercules (Nov 5, 2020)

Cannot believe that American Golf "fully endorses" the current closure of golf courses.
What a betrayal of their customers!


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## sunshine (Nov 5, 2020)

Sadly, the problem with the pre-lockdown2 guidelines was the fact they could be bent. No indoor gatherings? ok we'll put up a marquee outside the clubhouse and serve people "outdoors". Between June and yesterday I saw several "outdoor gatherings" at golf clubs which consisted of dozens of blokes crowded into a beer tent.

I was all for keeping golf going, but many people just can't respect the ethos of the self distancing regulations.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 5, 2020)

Hercules said:



			Cannot believe that American Golf "fully endorses" the current closure of golf courses.
What a betrayal of their customers!
		
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You can still order stuff online.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

Heard some representative of Golf in England (so I assume from England Golf) being interviewed on the Today programme about the government turning down request for golf to be exempt...3m golfers needing exercise apparently.

TBH I don't think that telling the public that golf courses should be kept open to enable 3m individuals to exercise - I could almost hear p'd off non-golfers shouting at their radios...just go for a walk!  And 3m?  Well - if 300,000 petitioners wasn't a big enough number for the government - then I am guessing the prospect of 3m individuals travelling to and from golf clubs might do the trick.

And of course the real problem (IMO) is that just a short time later on the same programme we had a RC Bishop making the case for those of a religious persuasion being allowed to continue their worship in church...and it just so happens that last time I checked there are about 3m regular church-goers in UK - before we add in those many of other faiths similarly impacted.  And so the requests for exemptions would just go on - if _Them_ then why not _Us _?

I don't think whoever it was I heard on the radio this morning did us golfers any great service tbh - though he did say the decision is now accepted - but to be revisited for after 2nd December.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Heard some representative of Golf in England (so I assume from England Golf) being interviewed on the Today programme about the government turning down request for golf to exempt...3m golfers needing exercise apparently.

TBH I don't think that telling the public that golf courses should be kept open to enable 3m individuals to exercise - I could almost hear p'd off non-golfers shouting at their radios...just go for a walk!  And 3m?  Well - if 300,000 petitioners wasn't a big enough number for the government - then I am guessing the prospect of 3m individuals travelling to and from golf clubs might do the trick.

And of course the real problem (IMO) is that just a short time later on the same programme we had a RC Bishop making the case for those of a religious persuasion being allowed to continue their worship in church...and it just so happens that last time I checked there are about 3m regular church-goers in UK - before we add in those many of other faiths similarly impacted.  And so the requests for exemptions would just go on - if _Them_ then why not _Us _?

I don't think whoever it was I heard on the radio this morning did us golfers any great service tbh - though he did say the decision is now accepted - but to be revisited for after 2nd December.
		
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3 million outside in the open spread across acres does not equate to 3 million church-goers stuffed in to old buildings.


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## bernix (Nov 5, 2020)

lucky me - our golf courses remain open for play only the bars and restaurants are closed. players are asked to leave the premises immediately after having finished their rounds. unfortunately the condition of my left knee does not allow me to play right now


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			3 million outside in the open spread across acres does not equate to 3 million church-goers stuffed in to old buildings.
		
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Not sure if you've been to many churches recently if you think they are 'stuffed'  

I only mentioned church-goers, as the 'complaint' from the Bishop was made on the same radio programme only minutes after a 'complaint' from a Golfer - and so the comparison is only made in the context of the 'If Them then why not Us' call that we know would go up from all over.

In any case - even without the comparison I don't think it is great to base the case for golf courses being open upon the need for 3m individuals to exercise - as I doubt it's going to win a huge amount of sympathy from non-golfers who will just have to go out for a walk locally.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 5, 2020)

Golfnut1957 said:



			I have three workmen coming in to my house on Monday to fit a new worktop. I can go into a DIY store to buy anything I need to fit my new kitchen. I can go to a supermarket, a chippy, an Indian or even a pub and get a take way. I can go to work. I can have 1-2-1 fitness instruction outdoors, I can meet a friend in a park or other open space, and I have just been informed that thanks to a change of heart by the government I can have horse riding lessons.....................but I can't go to a golf course with one other, or even on my own and play a game of golf.

Crazy. I will do what I have to do to protect others, but someone explain that to me.
		
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Crazy indeed I can't believe it





takes three workmen to fit a worktop


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## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not sure if you've been to many churches recently if you think they are 'stuffed'  

I only mentioned church-goers, as the 'complaint' from the Bishop was made on the same radio programme only minutes after a 'complaint' from a Golfer - and so the comparison is only made in the context of the 'If Them then why not Us' call that we know would go up from all over.

In any case - even without the comparison I don't think it is great to base the case for golf courses being open upon the need for 3m individuals to exercise - as I doubt it's going to win a huge amount of sympathy from non-golfers who will just have to go out for a walk locally.
		
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I thought churches were staying open for private prayer, Doesnt that mean you can still go on your own?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Not sure if you've been to many churches recently if you think they are 'stuffed'  

I only mentioned church-goers, as the 'complaint' from the Bishop was made on the same radio programme only minutes after a 'complaint' from a Golfer - and so the comparison is only made in the context of the 'If Them then why not Us' call that we know would go up from all over.

In any case - even without the comparison I don't think it is great to base the case for golf courses being open upon the need for 3m individuals to exercise - as I doubt it's going to win a huge amount of sympathy from non-golfers who will just have to go out for a walk locally.
		
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Sadly I have been to a couple churches recently, 1 being for a funeral, both times it was standing room only, so yes, “stuffed” It was you who brought the numbers in to it to use as a comparison.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 5, 2020)

Why can't all of you up in arms that golf is prohibited because you need it for exercise just go for a 4 hour walk instead? Walking further, continuously at a faster pace will be better for your health. 

As for mental health. Surely having a nice walk without the stress of playing in these conditions, or putting up with slow play, or heaven forbid seeing someone wearing a hoodie. Is better for your mental health by keeping the stress levels down. 😂


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Why can't all of you up in arms that golf is prohibited because you need it for exercise just go for a 4 hour walk instead? Walking further, continuously at a faster pace will be better for your health.

As for mental health. Surely having a nice walk without the stress of playing in these conditions, or putting up with slow play, or heaven forbid seeing someone wearing a hoodie. Is better for your mental health by keeping the stress levels down. 😂
		
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Do you not believe it’s possible for people to be against the ban and do the things you suggest anyway.

Plenty on here do loads outside of Golf, but can still emphathise with, and support, those who have Golf as their only release?


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## Jacko_G (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sadly I have been to a couple churches recently, 1 being for a funeral, both times it was standing room only, so yes, “stuffed” It was you who brought the numbers in to it to use as a comparison.

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I was under the impression that funeral's were a max of 30 persons?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			I was under the impression that funeral's were a max of 30 persons?
		
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Apologies Jacko, just for you, both visits were pre lockdown, funeral was in Jan.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I thought churches were staying open for private prayer, Doesnt that mean you can still go on your own?
		
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That's correct.  I can.  Indeed (as an aside) I was planning to pop in later today and say a little prayer for our friends across the Pond and their President - whichever of the main candidates that might be I don't differentiate in this context. (hopefully this thought is sufficiently politically agnostic for it not to be leapt on)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Sadly I have been to a couple churches recently, 1 being for a funeral, both times it was standing room only, so yes, “stuffed” It was you who brought the numbers in to it to use as a comparison.

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Such occasions though are dealt with separately under the Rules from congregational worship.

But again - I only mentioned churches given a Bishop was pleading churches case for 3m church-goers only minutes after a Golfer was pleading golf clubs case for 3m golfers.


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## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Such occasions though are dealt with separately under the Rules from congregational worship.

But again - I only mentioned churches given a Bishop was pleading churches case for 3m church-goers only minutes after a Golfer was pleading golf clubs case for 3m golfers.
		
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you can still go to church, so there is no comparison. Golf ( and other outdoor sports ) had requested to carry on in a reduced fashion but were rejected.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			you can still go to church, so there is no comparison. Golf ( and other outdoor sports ) had requested to carry on in a reduced fashion but were rejected.
		
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The point I am making is ONLY in the context of representatives of two large groups of individuals pleading the case of their cause within 15mins of each other.  I am not making ANY comparison of arguments made for the causes.


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## CliveW (Nov 5, 2020)

I hear more prayers and mention of Jesus Christ, God Almighty, Hell etc on the golf course than i ever did in church!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

CliveW said:



			I hear more prayers and mention of Jesus Christ, God Almighty, Hell etc on the golf course than i ever did in church!
		
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Always tickles me the idea of non-believers 'praying' for help and/or guidance from something they don't believe exists in any shape or form.  it's not going to stop the ball hit towards the lake going in it...   But I shall be doing whatever I can do on that front for our sport opening back up as soon as possible.


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## sunshine (Nov 5, 2020)

Bit cold and foggy this morning, but now the sky is blue and it's a lovely day for golf in Hertfordshire. And this dry spell is going to continue for a while, the course was looking very boggy a few days ago but by the weekend it should be in great condition.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 5, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Why can't all of you up in arms that golf is prohibited because you need it for exercise just go for a 4 hour walk instead? Walking further, continuously at a faster pace will be better for your health.

As for mental health. Surely having a nice walk without the stress of playing in these conditions, or putting up with slow play, or heaven forbid seeing someone wearing a hoodie. Is better for your mental health by keeping the stress levels down. 😂
		
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Is it OK and also stress free to go for a 4hr walk in a hoodie? Asking for a friend.................


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## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Bit cold and foggy this morning, but now the sky is blue and it's a lovely day for golf in Hertfordshire. And this dry spell is going to continue for a while, the course was looking very boggy a few days ago but by the weekend it should be in great condition.
		
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Yeah looks like we're going to miss some great golf weather.


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## Ssshank (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			Do you not believe it’s possible for people to be against the ban and do the things you suggest anyway.

Plenty on here do loads outside of Golf, but can still emphathise with, and support, those who have Golf as their only release?
		
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No, it's the principle of it.

The measures are baseless, closing golfing courses/sports facilities have a negligible impact on transmission rates.

People won't go on a walk for the sake of walking, sport is vital to facilitate this.


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## Ssshank (Nov 5, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			That stat means/shows/proves absolutely zilch!
Just remember the truism about statistics 'There are three kinds of Lies: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics'.
		
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Exactly, such as the Cambridge/PHE model which was used to justify this lockdown.

Even though it has recently been updated forecasting mortality to fall by 60% of what was originally forecast.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			No, it's the principle of it.

The measures are baseless, closing golfing courses/sports facilities have a negligible impact on transmission rates.

People won't go on a walk for the sake of walking, sport is vital to facilitate this.
		
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The only “principle” that matters is the one to save lives! We golfers are annoyed, 99% of us don’t agree with it, but the excuses like “People won't go on a walk for the sake of walking, sport is vital to facilitate this.” is imo a smoke screen, absolutely nothing to stop anyone going for a walk and getting some fresh air while we wait for the courses to reopen.

Some of the tantrums are hilarious.


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## Doodle (Nov 5, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			Why can't all of you up in arms that golf is prohibited because you need it for exercise just go for a 4 hour walk instead? Walking further, continuously at a faster pace will be better for your health.

As for mental health. Surely having a nice walk without the stress of playing in these conditions, or putting up with slow play, or heaven forbid seeing someone wearing a hoodie. Is better for your mental health by keeping the stress levels down. 😂
		
Click to expand...


I was under the impression that this was a golf forum?
Rather strange that there seem to be a number of peeps on here that are not too bothered about being locked down or not being able to play golf.
There is no doubt that perfectly safe outdoor sports should have been allowed to continue for the sake of physical & mental health.
The vast majority of us wouldn't even know that there was a virus on the loose if it wasn't for the near hysterical outpourings from some of the media.


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## DanFST (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The only “principle” that matters is the one to save lives! We golfers are annoyed, 99% of us don’t agree with it, but the excuses like “People won't go on a walk for the sake of walking, sport is vital to facilitate this.” is imo a smoke screen, absolutely nothing to stop anyone going for a walk and getting some fresh air while we wait for the courses to reopen.

Some of the tantrums are hilarious.
		
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I do kind of agree with you, no need to make excuses when the facts are I can walk round my club as normal with a full bag and waterproofs on with my playing partner, but I just can't legally hit a ball.


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## Foxholer (Nov 5, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			Exactly, such as the Cambridge/PHE model which was used to justify this lockdown.

Even though it has recently been updated forecasting mortality to fall by 60% of what was originally forecast.
		
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Please stop wasting our time posting unconnected twaddle, simply in an attempt to justify your wishes!

Btw. I too would prefer being able to play Golf, but accept the somewhat draconian application of 'the rules' simply because they make reasonable sense and put fewer lives in danger!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 5, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			Even though it has recently been updated forecasting mortality to fall by 60% of what was originally forecast.
		
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Oh well that's OK then, thousands will still die but 60% fewer than anticipated.

Carry on as normal then lads


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## Foxholer (Nov 5, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			Exactly, such as the Cambridge/PHE model which was used to justify this lockdown.

Even though it has recently been updated forecasting mortality to fall by 60% of what was originally forecast.
		
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You clearly don't know the difference between 'statistics' and 'model'.
Kindly stop posting twaddle and accept the, slightly OTT action, in the interest of saving lives!


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## Ssshank (Nov 5, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			You clearly don't know the difference between 'statistics' and 'model'.
Kindly stop posting twaddle and accept the, slightly OTT action, in the interest of saving lives!
		
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Incorrect.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

Doodle said:



			I was under the impression that this was a golf forum?
Rather strange that there seem to be a number of peeps on here that are not too bothered about being locked down or not being able to play golf.
There is no doubt that perfectly safe outdoor sports should have been allowed to continue for the sake of physical & mental health.
The vast majority of us wouldn't even know that there was a virus on the loose if it wasn't for the near hysterical outpourings from some of the media.
		
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You are missing the point! No Golfer is happy with the ban, not one single person on here or the thousands who signed the petition.
The Government were lobbied and they’ve not changed their mind.
Move on and make your feelings known next time there is an election.


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## Foxholer (Nov 5, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			You clearly don't know the difference between 'statistics' and 'model'.
Kindly stop posting twaddle and accept the, slightly OTT action, in the interest of saving lives!


Ssshank said:



			Incorrect.
		
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Click to expand...

See and note the 2nd sentence of my above reply then!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 5, 2020)

Doodle said:



			I was under the impression that this was a golf forum?
Rather strange that there seem to be a *number of peeps on here that are not too bothered about being locked down or not being able to play golf.  *There is no doubt that perfectly safe outdoor sports should have been allowed to continue for the sake of physical & mental health.
The vast majority of us wouldn't even know that there was a virus on the loose if it wasn't for the near hysterical outpourings from some of the media.
		
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I am totally bothered and totally fed up with not being able to play - but I recognise that I have a wider responsibility to the community and that there are wider implications and considerations were golf to be exempt.

Golf and golfers do not live in bubble separate from the communities in which our golf clubs and courses are located.  We are part of a community and have a part to play - and however irrational I might consider the closure, I must recognise and accept that part.


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## Ssshank (Nov 5, 2020)

Foxholer said:



			See and note the 2nd sentence of my above reply then!
		
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1) It's not twaddle, but fact.
2) No.
3) Not one study supports what is being implemented.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2020)

Really can't see what there is left to debate.

Courses have closed and will remain so until 2 December at the earliest.

On a golf forum obviously no one likes the fact but despite representation from various golfing bodies nothing has or will change. 

If this particular facet of lockdown is that important to any forum members then surely the answer is to let it be known through the ballot box next time around. 

In the meantime further debate or argument here is futile.


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## sunshine (Nov 5, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			Really can't see what there is left to debate.

Courses have closed and will remain so until 2 December at the earliest.

On a golf forum obviously no one likes the fact but despite representation from various golfing bodies nothing has or will change.

If this particular facet of lockdown is that important to any forum members then surely the answer is to let it be known through the ballot box next time around.

In the meantime further debate or argument here is futile.
		
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It's official. Move along please. Nothing more to debate.

Thanks for clearing that up. If only you could have posted this 19 pages ago you could have saved everybody so much time!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2020)

sunshine said:



			It's official. Move along please. Nothing more to debate.

Thanks for clearing that up. If only you could have posted this 19 pages ago you could have saved everybody so much time!


Click to expand...

When this was originally posted it was a relevant debate but since yesterday afternoon,  when the authorities confirmed that there was not to be an exception, further discussion of the merits of golf's case became pointless.


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## Old Skier (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			You are missing the point! No Golfer is happy with the ban, not one single person on here or the thousands who signed the petition.
The Government were lobbied and they’ve not changed their mind.
Move on and make your feelings known next time there is an election.
		
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Are you actually suggesting that at the next general election one thing to consider is whether golf courses closed or did I miss a smiley


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## Imurg (Nov 5, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Are you actually suggesting that at the next general election one thing to consider is whether golf courses closed or did I miss a smiley
		
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See #370


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## IanM (Nov 5, 2020)

Had an email to say our course opens on Monday morning!   

Just to counter the pointing and giggling those over the Bridge had to put up with... heck , tis November!  We've had 4 days of dry and sunny... similar weekend forecast.  Will surely pour down on Monday when I am due to play


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Are you actually suggesting that at the next general election one thing to consider is whether golf courses closed or did I miss a smiley
		
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What I’m suggesting is if someone can’t move on and it bothers them so much that that is the only way they can get back at those who made the decision.

Sad that people aren’t this passionate over the things that really matter in life.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 5, 2020)

I was just checking what is open at Grafham Water as planning a walk down, round and home and hoped to get a take-away coffee from the cafe. I was surprised to see both fishing and sailing facilities are still open. Seems strange that they're ok but other sports aren't. Does Covid hate water and fish that much?!


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## Ssshank (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			What I’m suggesting is if someone can’t move on and it bothers them so much that that is the only way they can get back at those who made the decision.

Sad that people aren’t this passionate over the things that really matter in life.
		
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That's subjective, what matters to you might not matter to me.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 5, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			That's subjective, what matters to you might not matter to me.
		
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Maybe, but it has no relevance when it comes to who runs our Country etc.


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## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			When this was originally posted it was a relevant debate but since yesterday afternoon,  when the authorities confirmed that there was not to be an exception, further discussion of the merits of golf's case became pointless.
		
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Does it matter. I could start a thread about long socks with shorts and it would probably run to more pages than this thread.  Yet its a subject that's been done to death and some.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2020)

Massively disappointing of course. Went to the club last night for a drink. Surprised how many people were in the clubhouse enjoying a final sup for a month. Great atmosphere and a cracking night


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## banjofred (Nov 5, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Massively disappointing of course. Went to the club last night for a drink. Surprised how many people were in the clubhouse enjoying a final sup for a month. Great atmosphere and a cracking night
		
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And all with Corona next week? Just kidding......probably more like dementia and bowel issues.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 5, 2020)

banjofred said:



			And all with Corona next week? Just kidding......probably more like dementia and bowel issues.
		
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All current social distancing rules observed stringently. To be fair, the vast majority have stuck to the rules


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## Hercules (Nov 5, 2020)

pauldj42 said:



			The only “principle” that matters is the one to save lives! We golfers are annoyed, 99% of us don’t agree with it, but the excuses like “People won't go on a walk for the sake of walking, sport is vital to facilitate this.” is imo a smoke screen, absolutely nothing to stop anyone going for a walk and getting some fresh air while we wait for the courses to reopen.

Some of the tantrums are hilarious.
		
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And not playing golf saves lives! Where is the proof?


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## Hercules (Nov 5, 2020)

Doodle said:



			I was under the impression that this was a golf forum?
Rather strange that there seem to be a number of peeps on here that are not too bothered about being locked down or not being able to play golf.
There is no doubt that perfectly safe outdoor sports should have been allowed to continue for the sake of physical & mental health.
The vast majority of us wouldn't even know that there was a virus on the loose if it wasn't for the near hysterical outpourings from some of the media.
		
Click to expand...

Agree with you 100%. Too many people following like sheep!


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## Ssshank (Nov 5, 2020)

Hercules said:



			And not playing golf saves lives! Where is the proof?
		
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It's because Mr not so whitty said so.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2020)

Hercules said:



			Agree with you 100%. Too many people following like sheep!
		
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What do you propose?

An uprising with all golfers armed with hybrids and Prov1's?

Get over yourself!

Too many acting like kids who have had their toys taken away.


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## BiMGuy (Nov 5, 2020)

You can tell who were the kids who threw tantrums when they didn't win pass the parcel. 

None of us are happy that courses are closed. But most of us are grown up to accept that there are more important things to worry about than missing a few rounds of golf. 

Try and find someone that's doing some actual research or work on Covid 19 and not just listening to the crap on social media and you might just change your minds.


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## Golfnut1957 (Nov 5, 2020)

Crumplezone said:



			Some of the rules don't make sense. That has always been the case since this started. Science is not always the deciding factor. Make of that what you will.
		
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Just been to Wickes for some plumbing bits. Fairly busy even though it was close to closing time. Nice to get out after being locked down all day


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## Golfnut1957 (Nov 5, 2020)

DanFST said:



			You can legally dress up in your golf gear and walk around the course with your friend from another house. As long as you don't hit a ball.
		
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I will be legally walking my dog on the course at the weekend. I could get dressed up in golf gear for that.


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## Golfnut1957 (Nov 5, 2020)

sunshine said:



			Sadly, the problem with the pre-lockdown2 guidelines was the fact they could be bent. No indoor gatherings? ok we'll put up a marquee outside the clubhouse and serve people "outdoors". Between June and yesterday I saw several "outdoor gatherings" at golf clubs which consisted of dozens of blokes crowded into a beer tent.

I was all for keeping golf going, but many people just can't respect the ethos of the self distancing regulations.
		
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I don't think anyone wants the clubhouse opening, just the course would do.


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## hovis (Nov 5, 2020)

The angling trust have anounced that fishing is still OK.  While I'm happy about that (the car is already loaded for tomorrow). I don't see why one is ok but not the other.  It would be easier for my brain to fathom if it was a blanket ban


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## Hercules (Nov 5, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			You can tell who were the kids who threw tantrums when they didn't win pass the parcel.

None of us are happy that courses are closed. But most of us are grown up to accept that there are more important things to worry about than missing a few rounds of golf.

Try and find someone that's doing some actual research or work on Covid 19 and not just listening to the crap on social media and you might just change your minds.
		
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You mean the type of research conducted by Mr Ferguson? Try reading the work of Mike Yeadon or does that come under your 'crap' heading as well!


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## robinthehood (Nov 5, 2020)

hovis said:



			The angling trust have anounced that fishing is still OK.  While I'm happy about that (the car is already loaded for tomorrow). I don't see why one is ok but not the other.  It would be easier for my brain to fathom if it was a blanket ban
		
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Its farcical, i went in to town today and you'd be hard pushed to know we are in a 2nd lockdown. Cafes open, loads of shops still open.
There were was no need to  stop any outside sport really, just being done for the sake of it.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2020)

Hercules said:



			You mean the type of research conducted by Mr Ferguson? Try reading the work of Mike Yeadon or does that come under your 'crap' heading as well!
		
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On any subject it is always possible to find a dissenting expert.

However, common sense and logic both lead the authorities to place more emphasis upon the views of the vast majority of those with relevant knowledge and expertise.


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## Ssshank (Nov 5, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			You can tell who were the kids who threw tantrums when they didn't win pass the parcel.

None of us are happy that courses are closed. But most of us are grown up to accept that there are more important things to worry about than missing a few rounds of golf.

Try and find someone that's doing some actual research or work on Covid 19 and not just listening to the crap on social media and you might just change your minds.
		
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There are some excellent findings regarding the presence of Zinc. A Zinc level lower than 50 μg/dl at admission had 2.3 times increased risk of in-hospital death compared with those of 50 μg/dl or higher.

Also, a lack of smell/taste is due to the depletion of zinc , ( mod edit political)


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## Hercules (Nov 5, 2020)

BiMGuy said:



			You can tell who were the kids who threw tantrums when they didn't win pass the parcel.

None of us are happy that courses are closed. But most of us are grown up to accept that there are more important things to worry about than missing a few rounds of golf.

Try and find someone that's doing some actual research or work on Covid 19 and not just listening to the crap on social media and you might just change your minds.
		
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So you will be happy to be told you can't play golf every other month for the next year?


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## Hercules (Nov 5, 2020)

Ssshank said:



			It's because Mr not so whitty said so.
		
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Like that one!


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 5, 2020)

Hercules said:



			You must mean the government experts. The same ones who show false graphs to justify their predictions!
Would love to know which authorities are using common sense and logic?
		
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As I said any Government would be regarded as reckless to ignore the majority in favour of the odd dissenter.

That's OK for the conspiracy theorist on a golf forum but not for leaders of nations.


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## Hercules (Nov 5, 2020)

MetalMickie said:



			As I said any Government would be regarded as reckless to ignore the majority in favour of the odd dissenter.

That's OK for the conspiracy theorist on a golf forum but not for leaders of nations.
		
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Your 'majority' may soon be tested!
Roll on 3rd Dec!


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 6, 2020)

Can I please reiterate that posts of a political nature or expressing an opinion on government policy are not permitted and will be removed.
Persistent offenders will start to get infractions,


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## KenL (Nov 6, 2020)

Just dump the thread?  It is not really possible to avoid political comment when it was a political decision to shut courses.


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## IanM (Nov 6, 2020)

Given the thread's title...the answer is now confirmed as "yes, they are."

Good night all....  in Wales we've had our closure while you lot were playing.  We're back Monday.   Till the next break. And...there will be one.  So we need to get used to it.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2020)

The River Wey runs through Wisley in Surrey. South of it as an RHS member or paying visitors you are free to wander round a large area of wide open green space. There will be no natural spacing of people as they will be free to roam wherever they like and numbers will be high. North of the river is The Wisley Golf Club. This also has a similar wide open green area that people could potentially wander round. Spacing would be much better controlled, numbers more limited and yet this can’t be used as intended. You could wander round it without clubs, just not use the course as intended. Using it just to walk round will of course lead to much greater possibility of getting close to people than it’s design purpose would allow.

No one that I am aware of is asking for golf to be treated as a special case; every one that I have spoken to would simply like a degree of logic applied to the circumstances. 

Town centres are as busy as ever as shops drive a coach and horses through the click and collect exemption, schools and universities, the biggest cause of virus spread in my opinion, remain open, but something that could function perfectly reasonably is banned. 

Utter madness.


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## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2020)

The other thing with golf, versus walking in a park, is that every person playing has been booked in, and is available for contact should a playing partner subsequently get covid.

People you meet / pass in the park, less so, unless they have the app, and who does?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 6, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			The River Wey runs through Wisley in Surrey. South of it as an RHS member or paying visitors you are free to wander round a large area of wide open green space. There will be no natural spacing of people as they will be free to roam wherever they like and numbers will be high. North of the river is The Wisley Golf Club. This also has a similar wide open green area that people could potentially wander round. Spacing would be much better controlled, numbers more limited and yet this can’t be used as intended. You could wander round it without clubs, just not use the course as intended. Using it just to walk round will of course lead to much greater possibility of getting close to people than it’s design purpose would allow.

No one that I am aware of is asking for golf to be treated as a special case; every one that I have spoken to would simply like a degree of logic applied to the circumstances.

Town centres are as busy as ever as shops drive a coach and horses through the click and collect exemption, schools and universities, the biggest cause of virus spread in my opinion, remain open, but something that could function perfectly reasonably is banned.

Utter madness.
		
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Spot on!



murphthemog said:



			The other thing with golf, versus walking in a park, is that every person playing has been booked in, and is available for contact should a playing partner subsequently get covid.

People you meet / pass in the park, less so, unless they have the app, and who does?
		
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Good point!


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 6, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Always tickles me the idea of non-believers 'praying' for help and/or guidance from something they don't believe exists in any shape or form.  it's not going to stop the ball hit towards the lake going in it...   But I shall be doing whatever I can do on that front for our sport opening back up as soon as possible.
		
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I agree but it also tickles me(being euphemistic) that believers think it OK to pray for God to cause a result . Thus, if one candidate/side/etc wins then God causes the other to lose.
Poor bugger just as well not have tried, and in the context of your post, a lot of people just as well not have voted!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

It’s frustrating for us because we all know that it can be done safely but it’s also clear they wanted to put all Amatuer sport into one bowl and treat them all the same in a four week block - people cant even go for a ride on a horse. But as golfers we have been very lucky that we have managed to get so much sport in , some sports have had their leagues cancelled totally before even starting , it was always going to be hard for them to treat single sports 

I still think the best way was to carry on the local restrictions- but Wales and Ireland have had closures , at one stage we always were going be closed - better now in the wintertime


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## Rlburnside (Nov 6, 2020)

I wish people would stop bleating about courses being closed in England, it’s only 4 weeks and it’s winter. 

I would agree though playing golf would be more safe than many other things that are open. 

More important things to worry about at the moment.


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s frustrating for us because we all know that it can be done safely but it’s also clear they wanted to put all Amatuer sport into one bowl and treat them all the same in a four week block - people cant even go for a ride on a horse. But as golfers we have been very lucky that we have managed to get so much sport in , some sports have had their leagues cancelled totally before even starting , it was always going to be hard for them to treat single sports

I still think the best way was to carry on the local restrictions- but Wales and Ireland have had closures , at one stage we always were going be closed - better now in the wintertime
		
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Horse riding  is still allowed and riding schools are open...


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I wish people would stop bleating about courses being closed in England, it’s only 4 weeks and it’s winter.

I would agree though playing golf would be more safe than many other things that are open.

More important things to worry about at the moment.
		
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Actually it's the reverse, I keep seeing post like yours bleating on and bemoaning anyone who cares to discuss the closure.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

Yesterday a man lost his wife and his two sons in a couple of days due to Covid - surely we can go 4 weeks without a game it there is a chance we can help reduce someone losing a loved one


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## sunshine (Nov 6, 2020)

Golfnut1957 said:



			I don't think anyone wants the clubhouse opening, just the course would do.
		
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Unfortunately that's not right.

Many people want to have a drink, a chat and a bite to eat. Golf clubs have gone to great lengths to facilitate this, so the demand is there. I've seen first hand at golf clubs how social distancing is ignored after a few beers, some don't even need a drink to forget.

Personally, I would be happy to just have the course open so I could get out and play and then leave straight after (like we did in May when courses re-opened). Seems like you are in the same camp.


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## Yorkshire Hacker (Nov 6, 2020)

I too am unhappy about the course closures. However, if it means that in four weeks time I actually understand all the nuances of WHS then the four week ban will have been put to good use.
Currently there are 93 pages on the WHS thread, and despite Rulefan's best endeavours, (and a few others), I am still struggling.
I spent a minute or two trying to explain the new system to an eminent surgeon on Wednesday, during our last game, . This man has an incredible brain, although by his own admission, numbers, figures, calculations etc are not his strong point. I might as well have been speaking to a five year old.
So, four weeks off, and the ground is soaking wet, our course is a mud bath.
When we return (hopefully early December), I vow to understand WHS........... and hope to play the game on firmer ground!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			I agree but it also tickles me(being euphemistic) that believers think it OK to pray for God to cause a result . Thus, if one candidate/side/etc wins then God causes the other to lose.
Poor bugger just as well not have tried, and in the context of your post, a lot of people just as well not have voted!
		
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Just a little personal variation for your thinking as not all have the same beliefs.   I don't pray for any God of my understanding to '_cause_' anything to happen in a direct interventionist way.  I _do _pray for those who _can _can make things happen or who _can _influence things, to seek knowledge of the _right _thing to do, and the strength to act according to the right thing rather than what their will might have them do.

But even with a knowledge of the right thing to do, I can still choose to act according to my will.  And in that way of looking at things it's that which has, throughout history, got us into the many of messes we have got into.

And so back to whether I think golf courses should have stayed open or been closed as they have been during the lockdown...


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## Rlburnside (Nov 6, 2020)

Ok 


robinthehood said:



			Actually it's the reverse, I keep seeing post like yours bleating on and bemoaning anyone who cares to discuss the closure.
		
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Ok fair enough, why don’t we all stop bleating about it, it’s not going to change. 👍


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			Ok


Ok fair enough, why don’t we all stop bleating about it, it’s not going to change. 👍
		
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No problem, but its a valid discussion and if people want to talk about it then thats fine too.


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## IanM (Nov 6, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I wish people would stop bleating about courses being closed in England, it’s only 4 weeks and it’s winter.

I would agree though playing golf would be more safe than many other things that are open.

More important things to worry about at the moment.
		
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True, but it is hard to understand the logic of what is ok and what isnt.... a point I put to a bloke from the DCMS on a call yesterday.  He coughed and reminded me he was in the "Media" bit, not anything to do with Culture or Sport!   He also said he was very pleased that was the case too!


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2020)

Rlburnside said:



			I wish people would stop bleating about courses being closed in England, it’s only 4 weeks and it’s winter.

I would agree though playing golf would be more safe than many other things that are open.

More important things to worry about at the moment.
		
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It’s not a bleat, it’s pointing out the utter stupidity of the current regulations. Produce some evidence that golf is causing an issue and I’ll say no more about it; ban golf whilst allowing more dangerous activities to carry on unabated and I’ll point out the discrepancies.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yesterday a man lost his wife and his two sons in a couple of days due to Covid - surely we can go 4 weeks without a game it there is a chance we can help reduce someone losing a loved one
		
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In Wales which was locked down ironically. I have every sympathy for his position but this isn’t the best example to exonerate the current position.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Nov 6, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			It’s not a bleat, it’s pointing out the utter stupidity of the current regulations. Produce some evidence that golf is causing an issue and I’ll say no more about it; ban golf whilst allowing more dangerous activities to carry on unabated and I’ll point out the discrepancies.
		
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But you are "preaching to the choir".

I don't imagine that there are many, if any, on here that would agree that shutting down golf will achieve much in the fight against coronavirus. 

It is a political move and intended to show that all amateur sport is being treated in the same way. 

But continuing to labour the point on a golf forum will achieve absolutely nothing.


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## sunshine (Nov 6, 2020)

This is now a thread moaning about people moaning about the lockdown


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## Jacko_G (Nov 6, 2020)

sunshine said:



			This is now a thread moaning about people moaning about the lockdown 

Click to expand...

Ok - I'll buck the trend and say I'm looking forward to 18 holes tomorrow.

🏌️👍


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			The other thing with golf, versus walking in a park, is that every person playing has been booked in, and is available for contact should a playing partner subsequently get covid.

People you meet / pass in the park, less so, unless they have the app, and who does?
		
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The most sensible post to date.
My feelings exactly.


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## Ethan (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yesterday a man lost his wife and his two sons in a couple of days due to Covid - surely we can go 4 weeks without a game it there is a chance we can help reduce someone losing a loved one
		
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That is an unfair comment. The evidence is now strong that Covid spreads through indoor close and prolonged contact in poorly ventilated places. Golf ticks nobodies there, and England Golf recommendations for changing in the car park etc all seem very sensible. Suggesting that someone responsibly playing golf is endangering others is just wrong. 

By the same token, would you like to see more stringent rules on indoor contacts, and if so, what?


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## pauljames87 (Nov 6, 2020)

Ethan said:



			That is an unfair comment. The evidence is now strong that Covid spreads through indoor close and prolonged contact in poorly ventilated places. Golf ticks nobodies there, and England Golf recommendations for changing in the car park etc all seem very sensible. Suggesting that someone responsibly playing golf is endangering others is just wrong. 

By the same token, would you like to see more stringent rules on indoor contacts, and if so, what?
		
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Also without wanting to be crass in that situation if I lost everything like that I'd need golf to distract me from my own dark thoughts


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## Deleted member 3432 (Nov 6, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Ok - I'll buck the trend and say I'm looking forward to 18 holes tomorrow.

🏌️👍
		
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Enjoy your game and make some birdies for me


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

Ethan said:



			That is an unfair comment. The evidence is now strong that Covid spreads through indoor close and prolonged contact in poorly ventilated places. Golf ticks nobodies there, and England Golf recommendations for changing in the car park etc all seem very sensible. Suggesting that someone responsibly playing golf is endangering others is just wrong.

By the same token, would you like to see more stringent rules on indoor contacts, and if so, what?
		
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How is it an unfair comment ?

People are dying from this virus and all we have been asked to do is not play golf for 4 weeks to try and maybe help , that’s all , nothing more than that - just a simple request even if we think it’s a bit unfair and the sport can be played safely , it’s just a small period to try and help reduce the spread in anyway possible. 

The virus is bigger than someone being able to play golf and maybe we should just think of those who are losing loved ones before we complain about not being able to play the sport.


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## Pathetic Shark (Nov 6, 2020)

We apparently had some members who ignored all the guidelines and mails and still turned up trying to play today.    They got as far as the 1st green where the greenkeepers were hollow-coring and then they also realised every flag had been removed and covers put over the holes.  Now we will see what they get in terms of a club ban.   I was all for crucifixtion - first offense and all that.


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## Ethan (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How is it an unfair comment ?

People are dying from this virus and all we have been asked to do is not play golf for 4 weeks to try and maybe help , that’s all , nothing more than that - just a simple request even if we think it’s a bit unfair and the sport can be played safely , it’s just a small period to try and help reduce the spread in anyway possible.

The virus is bigger than someone being able to play golf and maybe we should just think of those who are losing loved ones before we complain about not being able to play the sport.
		
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Seriously? Trying to guilt people into not wanting to play golf by citing a story about a family who lost 3 people?

The fact is that the risk outdoors is very low (vanishingly small according to some virologists) and essentially zero with a few common sense measures such as those applied by clubs and the golf associations. Getting out for exercise is good for people, for their physical and mental health, and reduces contact time within the home too. 

If you have such a zero tolerance attitude, tell me what else that is currently allowed should be banned? Maximum number of visits to the supermarket (indoors, closer contact, poorer ventilation) per week? Any other bright ideas?


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How is it an unfair comment ?

People are dying from this virus and all we have been asked to do is not play golf for 4 weeks to try and maybe help , that’s all , nothing more than that - just a simple request even if we think it’s a bit unfair and the sport can be played safely , it’s just a small period to try and help reduce the spread in anyway possible.

The virus is bigger than someone being able to play golf and maybe we should just think of those who are losing loved ones before we complain about not being able to play the sport.
		
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Its an order,not a request. And your reaction is over the top to say the least. playing or not playing of golf will do nothing to the spread of covid.


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## Imurg (Nov 6, 2020)

It's the absurdity of the logic that's annoying people.
People are still going to work, kids are going to school...
Many businesses that, on the face of it should be shut, are open..Riding schools being one from earlier in the thread.
If the Powers that Be have data implicating certain areas of society as probable transmission hot spots then show us the numbers..
Give us a chance to understand why..why an area of open ground can be used for one relativly uncontrolled activity ( walking) but not another, quite markedly controlled with set times of admission, numbers and traceability.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Seriously? Trying to guilt people into not wanting to play golf by citing a story about a family who lost 3 people?

The fact is that the risk outdoors is very low (vanishingly small according to some virologists) and essentially zero with a few common sense measures such as those applied by clubs and the golf associations. Getting out for exercise is good for people, for their physical and mental health, and reduces contact time within the home too.

If you have such a zero tolerance attitude, tell me what else that is currently allowed should be banned? Maximum number of visits to the supermarket (indoors, closer contact, poorer ventilation) per week? Any other bright ideas?
		
Click to expand...

It’s not about guilt it’s about realism that this virus is affecting the country in many ways - you can still go out and exercise and get fresh air , you haven’t been stopped from doing that just like you weren’t stopped from doing before. 

It’s not my choice what is allowed or not - every single one of us will have a different opinion based on our own personal reasons and choices. People far more informed than us are making the choices and giving the evidence , they are the ones that are putting everything on the line - we are being asked to do something very small in the grand scheme of things. Life at times is unfair , sometimes we need to make sacrifices for the potential greater good - I would rather have a 4 week break now from playing golf than not be able to see other family over Xmas.


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## Ethan (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not about guilt it’s about realism that this virus is affecting the country in many ways - you can still go out and exercise and get fresh air , you haven’t been stopped from doing that just like you weren’t stopped from doing before.

It’s not my choice what is allowed or not - every single one of us will have a different opinion based on our own personal reasons and choices. People far more informed than us are making the choices and giving the evidence , they are the ones that are putting everything on the line - we are being asked to do something very small in the grand scheme of things. Life at times is unfair , sometimes we need to make sacrifices for the potential greater good - I would rather have a 4 week break now from playing golf than not be able to see other family over Xmas.
		
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Well, you can speak for yourself in relation to how informed you are, but Chris Whitty, Jon van Tam and Patrick Vallance have made it very clear, as it obvious from even a cursory read of the data, that this is a condition which is spread by close and prolonged contact indoors in poorly ventilated places. If you think a golf course fulfils that, fine, don't play, but you have no right guilting other people who think differently.

Opening golf courses to operate under England Golf rules will make precisely no difference to your chance of having a family Christmas, but you should note that having a family Christmas may affect your chances of having another lockdown in January. So if you are really concerned about the greater good and all that other stuff, you will tell your rellies to stay where they are and have a Zoom Christmas. 

I note that you have been asked twice to tell me what else you think should not be allowed, but you have not answered so presumably you think the current rules are 100% perfect and need absolutely no adjustment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Well, you can speak for yourself in relation to how informed you are, but Chris Whitty, Jon van Tam and Patrick Vallance have made it very clear, as it obvious from even a cursory read of the data, that this is a condition which is spread by close and prolonged contact indoors in poorly ventilated places. If you think a golf course fulfils that, fine, don't play, but you have no right guilting other people who think differently.

Opening golf courses to operate under England Golf rules will make precisely no difference to your chance of having a family Christmas, but you should note that having a family Christmas may affect your chances of having another lockdown in January. So if you are really concerned about the greater good and all that other stuff, you will tell your rellies to stay where they are and have a Zoom Christmas.

I note that you have been asked twice to tell me what else you think should not be allowed, but you have not answered so presumably you think the current rules are 100% perfect and need absolutely no adjustment.
		
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As per normal you miss the point completely - it’s not about of something could open or not , those decisions have been made by the people we decided should make them. It’s about people complaining because they can’t play a game of golf during a country issue that is affecting millions including people who are losing their loved ones . I don’t need to tell you what should or shouldn’t be allowed - it’s not my place. 

I believed they should have carried on with the localised lockdowns which appeared to be working but the powers to be decided differently and it’s now up to us to just get on with it and think of the greater good - is your game of golf really that important in the bigger picture ? Do you really need to hit that little white ball , is it that much of a hardship to not do it for 4 weeks ?


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## CliveW (Nov 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			The other thing with golf, versus walking in a park, is that every person playing has been booked in, and is available for contact should a playing partner subsequently get covid.

People you meet / pass in the park, less so, unless they have the app, and who does?
		
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And it is a one way system on the golf course.


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## Ethan (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As per normal you miss the point completely - it’s not about of something could open or not , those decisions have been made by the people we decided should make them. It’s about people complaining because they can’t play a game of golf during a country issue that is affecting millions including people who are losing their loved ones . I don’t need to tell you what should or shouldn’t be allowed - it’s not my place.

I believed they should have carried on with the localised lockdowns which appeared to be working but the powers to be decided differently and it’s now up to us to just get on with it and think of the greater good - is your game of golf really that important in the bigger picture ? Do you really need to hit that little white ball , is it that much of a hardship to not do it for 4 weeks ?
		
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As I have said before here previously, I have finished playing golf for the season, so I won't be playing even if Boris Johnson calls me and asks me to lead the nation in a special exemption for golf. Precisely zero hardship for me, won't affect me in the slightest if the courses have metaphorical tumbleweeds blowing over them or the timesheets crammed.  

And don't get all coy, you ARE telling us what should or shouldn't be allowed. You are able to apply your analysis of the risk and appropriate response to say that the localised lockdowns should have continued, but you seem unwilling to stretch your analytic powers to considering the various elements of the national rules. A curious but rather convenient delineation of insight.

Think what you like, but don't throw a dead family in anybody's face to justify something that, by your own admission, you don't really understand.


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## DanFST (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s now up to us to just get on with it and think of the greater good - is your game of golf really that important in the bigger picture ? Do you really need to hit that little white ball , is it that much of a hardship to not do it for 4 weeks ?
		
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It's not for the greater good tho... It's a non science based decision. I have seen no data that suggests the risk of infection playing golf is more than horse riding etc. 

I have been open on here about my mental health. Golf is my release, I get up early and function thanks to golf. I now have a month at home alone with no reason to leave the house at all, no reason to have any structure in my life. So yes that little ball does mean considerable amounts to me.


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## 94tegsi (Nov 6, 2020)

i find it interesting that during the biggest pandemic in modern times we have the lowest hospital bed occupancy rates recorded.... by a significant number.... is number of cases really the right data set to be using...?


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## Hercules (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As per normal you miss the point completely - it’s not about of something could open or not , those decisions have been made by the people we decided should make them. It’s about people complaining because they can’t play a game of golf during a country issue that is affecting millions including people who are losing their loved ones . I don’t need to tell you what should or shouldn’t be allowed - it’s not my place.

I believed they should have carried on with the localised lockdowns which appeared to be working but the powers to be decided differently and it’s now up to us to just get on with it and think of the greater good - is your game of golf really that important in the bigger picture ? Do you really need to hit that little white ball , is it that much of a hardship to not do it for 4 weeks ?
		
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I doubt that anybody agrees that we elected this lot to take away our personal freedoms at their whim and based on dodgy data


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

DanFST said:



			It's not for the greater good tho... It's a non science based decision. I have seen no data that suggests the risk of infection playing golf is more than horse riding etc.

I have been open on here about my mental health. Golf is my release, I get up early and function thanks to golf. I now have a month at home alone with no reason to leave the house at all, no reason to have any structure in my life. So yes that little ball does mean considerable amounts to me.
		
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Don’t get me wrong - it’s a tough situation for everyone and it’s not going to be easy. Everyone of us will have something that we will be missing or can’t do that we will struggle with - and it’s about finding something else to fill that void for a while , I haven’t seen my parents since Jan , they haven’t seen their granddaughter in that period and they struggle with it.  My wife is very close to her family and struggled badly and still does now when she can’t see her mum or sister plus nieces and nephews etc - it’s hard. 

I don’t agree with not being able to play outdoor sports - for many it is a release after a hard day , but there is a bigger picture in all this , people are suffering because of the illness , people have lost so many things including jobs , family members and whilst we may not agree with what’s been agreed surely in the grand scheme of things the sacrifice is very small 


Hercules said:



			I doubt that anybody agrees that we elected this lot to take away our personal freedoms at their whim and based on dodgy data
		
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Your personal freedom hasn’t been removed just because a golf club has closed


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## hovis (Nov 6, 2020)

For me it's not a case of moaning because I can't play golf.  It's about moaning because golf was banned when fishing wasn't!.   Its the fact that I can't play golf but I've just got back from dog training class with my dog.   Yes, you read that right.  Dog training is classed as animal welfare so gets a pass.      If the government did a blanket ban I think many people on this post would be OK.  Its the inconsistencies thats getting on my goat.


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## IainP (Nov 6, 2020)

Just for a bit of a distraction, I wouldn't be surprised if some driving ranges, especially the top tracer style ranges, were areas of spread. Observed groups sharing bays etc.
Obviously could have closed the ranges but left the courses open.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s not about guilt it’s about realism that this virus is affecting the country in many ways - you can still go out and exercise and get fresh air , you haven’t been stopped from doing that just like you weren’t stopped from doing before.

It’s not my choice what is allowed or not - every single one of us will have a different opinion based on our own personal reasons and choices. People far more informed than us are making the choices and giving the evidence , they are the ones that are putting everything on the line - we are being asked to do something very small in the grand scheme of things. Life at times is unfair , sometimes we need to make sacrifices for the potential greater good - I would rather have a 4 week break now from playing golf than not be able to see other family over Xmas.
		
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So you want to see family over Christmas which I highly presume would be in an indoor setting in a home which I would find highly probable that would be the most high risk transmission scenario bar none.

But we should accept the ban on golf to help? 

No not having that.


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## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2020)

When they announced the lockdown, I always expected golf to be cancelled. It was. It was always going to be. It's lazy, maybe, but once something like golf is allowed, tennis, bowling, swimming, boules, dominoes, whatever gets to be considered. It would take months to filter out who can, and who cannot continue with their chosen activity.
Yes, to us golfers, it's obvious we should continue, but it just opens a door of contention once there starts to be exceptions.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			So you want to see family over Christmas which I highly presume would be in an indoor setting in a home which I would find highly probable that would be the most high risk transmission scenario bar none.

But we should accept the ban on golf to help?

No not having that.
		
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Yes I want to see family if rules permit , family i haven’t seen for months.


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			When they announced the lockdown, I always expected golf to be cancelled. It was. It was always going to be. It's lazy, maybe, but once something like golf is allowed, tennis, bowling, swimming, boules, dominoes, whatever gets to be considered. It would take months to filter out who can, and who cannot continue with their chosen activity.
Yes, to us golfers, it's obvious we should continue, but it just opens a door of contention once there starts to be exceptions.
		
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Exceptions have already been made. Stables, equestrian centres, riding schools were meant to close, but the governing bodies of those lobbied successfully to have them removed from the list.


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## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Exceptions have already been made. Stables, equestrian centres, riding schools were meant to close, but the governing bodies of those lobbied successfully to have them removed from the list.
		
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Because horses need exercising? Like dogs.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes I want to see family if rules permit , family i haven’t seen for months.
		
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And that’s fine. But the very notion of allowing a Christmas covid party blows the logic of the lockdown and closure of courses out the water,  utterly pointless and a waste of time.


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Because horses need exercising? Like dogs.
		
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They do indeed , but I'm sure some could go without riding  lessons for a month.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 6, 2020)

Jamesbrown said:



			And that’s fine. But the very notion of allowing a Christmas covid party blows the logic of the lockdown and closure of courses out the water,  utterly pointless and a waste of time.
		
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who says anything about a Xmas party ? It will be just my parents and my family


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2020)

IainP said:



			Just for a bit of a distraction, I wouldn't be surprised if some driving ranges, especially the top tracer style ranges, were areas of spread. Observed groups sharing bays etc.
Obviously could have closed the ranges but left the courses open.
		
Click to expand...

I have been avoiding Toptracer ranges (Lavender Park in Ascot being my nearest). They have been very good down there with cleaning the bay after use and have allocated ten minutes between sessions to do that but I still feel touching a screen that others have used is an unnecessary risk. I've also fallen out of love with Toptracer as a practice aid so it was an easy decision


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## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			They do indeed , but I'm sure some could go without riding  lessons for a month.
		
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They could, but then who would ride the horses?


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 6, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Well, you can speak for yourself in relation to how informed you are, but Chris Whitty, Jon van Tam and Patrick Vallance have made it very clear, as it obvious from even a cursory read of the data, that this is a condition which is spread by close and prolonged contact indoors in poorly ventilated places. If you think a golf course fulfils that, fine, don't play, but you have no right guilting other people who think differently.

Opening golf courses to operate under England Golf rules will make precisely no difference to your chance of having a family Christmas, but you should note that having a family Christmas may affect your chances of having another lockdown in January. So if you are really concerned about the greater good and all that other stuff, you will tell your rellies to stay where they are and have a Zoom Christmas.

I note that you have been asked twice to tell me what else you think should not be allowed, but you have not answered so presumably you think the current rules are 100% perfect and need absolutely no adjustment.
		
Click to expand...

The differences between Ethan  and Phil on this question of playing golf are less important than the efforts to knock back the rates of infection.
The data clearly has frightened the hell,out of the Drs and medical experts, and it's clear Ethan knows the medical facts and implications.
But I don't think he would claim to be more of an expert in human behaviour than a lot of us.
And that is an important factor in the spread of this virus.
Bear with me for showing an extract from scientists about the spread.

"Individuals with COVID-19, many of whom have no symptoms, release thousands of virus-laden aerosols and far fewer droplets when breathing and talking (4–6). Thus, one is far more likely to inhale aerosols than be sprayed by a droplet (7), and so the balance of attention must be shifted to protecting against airborne transmission. In addition to existing mandates of mask-wearing, social distancing, and hygiene efforts, we urge public health officials to add clear guidance about the importance of moving activities outdoors, improving indoor air using ventilation "etc.

So, yes, indoor socialising is the main spreader, but why? It's obvious, but not frequently spelled out. 
It's because it's potential victims breathing in the expelled breath of someone with Covid
So, a Covid positive breathing amongst a group will probably infect that group if they breath in that person's expelled air.

However,that does not mean that it only happens indoors, does it Ethan?
If a group is standing close, talking and laughing out on the golf course, I reckon , and all must agree with you, that there is a very very slim chance that it happens. But if that group is stood under a veranda next to a clubhouse wall, I.e, a somewhat confined area, then it can happen, surely?
( just imagine they are smoking, you can see how all the breathed out smoke hangs about and is breathed in by others)

Well that's what happens at my golf club, and I suspect at many others.
There's no way that at all the golf courses ,you would only get guys walking out on to the course, playing and then going home, having properly SD at all times.
There would be many instances similar to the one I described that I've seen.
It's what uncaring or unthinking people do when there are numbers of people around.

That is a risk that there would not be if the golf course is closed.
SILH has said that a cumulation of small risks is important, and so it is.
And so, all in all, I think it right to ask people not to play golf for a short while, because otherwise, there would be a risk.

I know there are anomalies elsewhere, but that doesn't change the risk at golf clubs.

As for thinking that it's sensible to have a usual Christmas this year, family members gathering in the lounge together for hours, or around the family dining table etc, it's an inconvenient truth that such behaviour will really fuel the spread of this nasty virus, unless we have a vaccine issued by this time.

My plea is, "Let's us be objective about this and behave so that lives are saved"


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			They could, but then who would ride the horses?
		
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Also fishing successfully  dealt with the dcms in allowing thier sport to carry on, I guess those fish need exercising too...
I see that it clearly doesn't suit your narrative, I'll leave it there.


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## Jamesbrown (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			who says anything about a Xmas party ? It will be just my parents and my family
		
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It was just to accentuate and dramatise. 
 Christmas is a good release as is golf and you should enjoy it safely.


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## 94tegsi (Nov 6, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			.
There's no way that at all the golf courses ,you would only get guys walking out on to the course, playing and then going home, having properly SD at all times.
"
		
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Isnt that exactly what everyone did when courses first opened?


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## Beezerk (Nov 6, 2020)

Bloody hell, it's a golf forum, surely we're allowed to moan about golf courses being closed aren't we? 
Bonkers 😆


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Bloody hell, it's a golf forum, surely we're allowed to moan about golf courses being closed aren't we? 
Bonkers 😆
		
Click to expand...

Apparently not 🤣🤣


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2020)

Imurg said:



			It's the absurdity of the logic that's annoying people.
People are still going to work, kids are going to school...
Many businesses that, on the face of it should be shut, are open..Riding schools being one from earlier in the thread.
If the Powers that Be have data implicating certain areas of society as probable transmission hot spots then show us the numbers..
Give us a chance to understand why..why an area of open ground can be used for one relativly uncontrolled activity ( walking) but not another, quite markedly controlled with set times of admission, numbers and traceability.
		
Click to expand...

One word on risk of transmission - aggregation


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 6, 2020)

Beezerk said:



			Bloody hell, it's a golf forum, surely we're allowed to moan about golf courses being closed aren't we?
Bonkers 😆
		
Click to expand...

Should be mandatory.
It’s part of your green fees to have a little moan!


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## Ethan (Nov 6, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			The differences between Ethan  and Phil on this question of playing golf are less important than the efforts to knock back the rates of infection.
The data clearly has frightened the hell,out of the Drs and medical experts, and it's clear Ethan knows the medical facts and implications.
But I don't think he would claim to be more of an expert in human behaviour than a lot of us.
And that is an important factor in the spread of this virus.
Bear with me for showing an extract from scientists about the spread.

"Individuals with COVID-19, many of whom have no symptoms, release thousands of virus-laden aerosols and far fewer droplets when breathing and talking (4–6). Thus, one is far more likely to inhale aerosols than be sprayed by a droplet (7), and so the balance of attention must be shifted to protecting against airborne transmission. In addition to existing mandates of mask-wearing, social distancing, and hygiene efforts, we urge public health officials to add clear guidance about the importance of moving activities outdoors, improving indoor air using ventilation "etc.

So, yes, indoor socialising is the main spreader, but why? It's obvious, but not frequently spelled out.
It's because it's potential victims breathing in the expelled breath of someone with Covid
So, a Covid positive breathing amongst a group will probably infect that group if they breath in that person's expelled air.

However,that does not mean that it only happens indoors, does it Ethan?
If a group is standing close, talking and laughing out on the golf course, I reckon , and all must agree with you, that there is a very very slim chance that it happens. But if that group is stood under a veranda next to a clubhouse wall, I.e, a somewhat confined area, then it can happen, surely?
( just imagine they are smoking, you can see how all the breathed out smoke hangs about and is breathed in by others)

Well that's what happens at my golf club, and I suspect at many others.
There's no way that at all the golf courses ,you would only get guys walking out on to the course, playing and then going home, having properly SD at all times.
There would be many instances similar to the one I described that I've seen.
It's what uncaring or unthinking people do when there are numbers of people around.

That is a risk that there would not be if the golf course is closed.
SILH has said that a cumulation of small risks is important, and so it is.
And so, all in all, I think it right to ask people not to play golf for a short while, because otherwise, there would be a risk.

I know there are anomalies elsewhere, but that doesn't change the risk at golf clubs.

As for thinking that it's sensible to have a usual Christmas this year, family members gathering in the lounge together for hours, or around the family dining table etc, it's an inconvenient truth that such behaviour will really fuel the spread of this nasty virus, unless we have a vaccine issued by this time.

My plea is, "Let's us be objective about this and behave so that lives are saved"
		
Click to expand...

The expectation in all environments, including the supermarket, takeaway restaurant etc is that people act sensibly. The prohibition on golf is not because some members at your club might stand under a verandah. They could do the same at Tesco. It is part of a simplistic ban on outside sport. According to Dr Chris Smith, clinical lecturer in virology at the University of Cambridge,  the chances of Covid-19 transmission outside were “vanishingly small” because “the amount of dilution from fresh air is so high”. Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance agree. For reference, "vanishingly small" means effectively negligible. 

But if you want to reduce even a very, very slim chance, then you need to close schools, universities, limit the number of visits to the supermarket per week, marshal people in those supermarkets on social distancing and mask wearing, prohibit self identification of exempt status, stop pubs selling takeaway beer, make sure people at the supermarket, out exercising etc don't stand near one another, and most importantly of all, do not promise people they can still meet for Christmas. Because that will result in increased cases again. We are being asked to store up deaths and admissions for late December and January. 

Your plea is mis-stated. Being objective is precisely what is needed, because objectivity means being willing to examine the different issues, and it is simply false to infer that all elements of these rules will save lives.


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## Ethan (Nov 6, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			One word on risk of transmission - aggregation
		
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Go on then, explain. I know what it means in English, can you explain how it works in relation to viral transmission.


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## USER1999 (Nov 6, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Also fishing successfully  dealt with the dcms in allowing thier sport to carry on, I guess those fish need exercising too...
I see that it clearly doesn't suit your narrative, I'll leave it there.
		
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Please do, as I have zero idea what narrative you think I have.


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## pendodave (Nov 6, 2020)




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## SammmeBee (Nov 6, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes I want to see family if rules permit , family i haven’t seen for months.
		
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I think you could have gone to see them...?!


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 6, 2020)

It wouldn't surprise me, and I may be well of the mark here (not for the first time) that this could be a precursor to a more stringent lockdown in January and February. The coldest months anyway, no-one has cash after a Christmas splurge and the height of cold and flu season. If we reduce movement and contact as much as possible surely (and again this may be way over simplifying it) the risk at a potential peak is significantly reduced. Of couse there is still the need for the public to react sensibly and with sense and abide


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## Diamond (Nov 6, 2020)

1) November is a horrible month. It gets dark early, the weather is lousy and everyone is waiting for December. Could be worse months for lockdown...like any of the other 11.

2) Saying that a private members club where you pay several thousand pounds a year for the privelage to enjoy the fresh air on your own is an odd place to lockdown during a pandemic when public parks are still open.

3) On a sensible note I hope everyone stays safe makes sure they are a good distance from anyone not in their bubble, wears a mask and uses sanitiser before, during and after you have ventured out.


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

Diamond said:



			1) November is a horrible month. It gets dark early, the weather is lousy and everyone is waiting for December. Could be worse months for lockdown...like any of the other 11.

2) Saying that a private members club where you pay several thousand pounds a year for the privelage to enjoy the fresh air on your own is an odd place to lockdown during a pandemic when public parks are still open.

3) On a sensible note I hope everyone stays safe makes sure they are a good distance from anyone not in their bubble, wears a mask and uses sanitiser before, during and after you have ventured out.
		
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Except its going to be perfect golf weather this weekend,  at least in north London.


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## Old Skier (Nov 6, 2020)




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## Diamond (Nov 6, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Except its going to be perfect golf weather this weekend,  at least in north London.
		
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Plenty of public parks open. Enjoy.😉


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 6, 2020)

Ethan said:



			The expectation in all environments, including the supermarket, takeaway restaurant etc is that people act sensibly. The prohibition on golf is not because some members at your club might stand under a verandah. They could do the same at Tesco. It is part of a simplistic ban on outside sport. According to Dr Chris Smith, clinical lecturer in virology at the University of Cambridge,  the chances of Covid-19 transmission outside were “vanishingly small” because “the amount of dilution from fresh air is so high”. Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance agree. For reference, "vanishingly small" means effectively negligible.

But if you want to reduce even a very, very slim chance, then you need to close schools, universities, limit the number of visits to the supermarket per week, marshal people in those supermarkets on social distancing and mask wearing, prohibit self identification of exempt status, stop pubs selling takeaway beer, make sure people at the supermarket, out exercising etc don't stand near one another, and most importantly of all, do not promise people they can still meet for Christmas. Because that will result in increased cases again. We are being asked to store up deaths and admissions for late December and January.

Your plea is mis-stated. Being objective is precisely what is needed, because objectivity means being willing to examine the different issues, and it is simply false to infer that all elements of these rules will save lives.
		
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"Expectation" is not what happens in practice. Seems to me highly likely that the government didn't expect people to behave sensibly, so had to use something of a sledgehammer for the nut this time.😀
My "veranda" was an example, but every golfer knows where almost confined ,though technically outside , places at their club have been frequented by non SD numbers. And that's where transmissions would occur. My post agreed with you that out on the course ,and open fresh air venues where the air can disperse breath, afforded no risk ( why do you write as if all points being made  in replies disagree with you?😀)
And ,yes, the severe measures you list are what may be needed to attain and keep below R1, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come to that at some point this winter.
Especially if people have a " normal" Christmas. I did condemn that that should happen, but your comment re Christmas didn't acknowledge that🤔
Maybe you were referring more to condemning someone's promise than seeing we were on the same hymn sheet re the effects of such a Christmas?

I am already missing going to the golf club and range, and I've missed using the clubhouse since April/May, but securing our wants before doing the best to beat this virus is not the way to go.
It is not false to infer that all these rules will save lives. To say that it is gives justification to every vested interest which wants themselves to be exempt.


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## robinthehood (Nov 6, 2020)

Diamond said:



			Plenty of public parks open. Enjoy.😉
		
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Sadly I'll be trooping around bandq with loads of others.


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## Ethan (Nov 6, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			"Expectation" is not what happens in practice. Seems to me highly likely that the government didn't expect people to behave sensibly, so had to use something of a sledgehammer for the nut this time.😀
My "veranda" was an example, but every golfer knows where almost confined ,though technically outside , places at their club have been frequented by non SD numbers. And that's where transmissions would occur. My post agreed with you that out on the course ,and open fresh air venues where the air can disperse breath, afforded no risk ( why do you write as if all points being made  in replies disagree with you?😀)
And ,yes, the severe measures you list are what may be needed to attain and keep below R1, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come to that at some point this winter.
Especially if people have a " normal" Christmas. I did condemn that that should happen, but your comment re Christmas didn't acknowledge that🤔
Maybe you were referring more to condemning someone's promise than seeing we were on the same hymn sheet re the effects of such a Christmas?

I am already missing going to the golf club and range, and I've missed using the clubhouse since April/May, but securing our wants before doing the best to beat this virus is not the way to go.
It is not false to infer that all these rules will save lives. To say that it is gives justification to every vested interest which wants themselves to be exempt.
		
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I think you credit Govt with applying more thought to much of this than they really did. They wanted to ban football, rugby and other contact sports and decided it was simpler just to ban everything without too much consideration. 

The line about securing our wants before beating the virus is placing these two in opposition when they are not. Allowing sensible things to continue helps keep people to do without the risky stuff, not hinders it. Some of these rules will not save lives, but there are rules missing that would. For example, NI had an extra period of school/uni closure recently, so why couldn't GB? The answer is note in science but in that which is banned on the forum.


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## ExRabbit (Nov 7, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			When they announced the lockdown, I always expected golf to be cancelled. It was. It was always going to be. It's lazy, maybe, but once something like golf is allowed, tennis, bowling, swimming, boules, dominoes, whatever gets to be considered. It would take months to filter out who can, and who cannot continue with their chosen activity.
Yes, to us golfers, it's obvious we should continue, but it just opens a door of contention once there starts to be exceptions.
		
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My thoughts exactly. It's just a few weeks.

Relax, have a walk, chip a few wiffle balls in the garden if you have one, or sponge balls indoors and putt on the carpet.

To repeat, it's only 4 weeks. No need for all the drama.


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## Fish (Nov 7, 2020)

So, in reading over some of these posts, it would seem that some people think it’s a small sacrifice to give playing golf (a very low risk, if a risk at all) a miss for 4-weeks and is all for ‘the greater good’ so that we don’t potentially spread the virus, especially amongst loved ones, seems sensible in part. 

But, if the law allows, those same people will happily, because they can, have family visit over Christmas when they don’t know where they’ve been, who they’ve recently been in contact with, and could be bringing Covid into their home endangering their immediate family, not so sensible! 

Can those people not think for themselves, if they are so agreeable with the current laws and accept that the highest risks are from meeting and being in close contact with people, indoors, then what makes having anyone visit at Christmas suddenly acceptable, to risk bringing a disease into their homes, just because ‘they can’? 

Surely with those same ‘greater good’ attitudes, it’s sensible to not have anyone visit as the risks to their own family surely outweigh the positives as we’re not actually in a full lockdown of sorts, people are in close contact everywhere, indoors, whether it be in a small shop, supermarket, school, university, petrol garage and even work, all those people are mixing with members of our family, so why invite that risk into the family home? 

This isn’t a lockdown, it’s just a slowdown and delay of stats so as not to ruin Christmas, for some, but then what, back to a tier system and watch different areas climb again, wait for the inevitable national spike following Christmas & New Year celebrations because everyone met up, because they could! 

I’m in & out of high risk areas on a daily basis, I’m tested on a regular basis and take an unprecedented amount of precautions, but I’ve already turned down many invites to join friends at Christmas, because I would feel terrible if I contributed to anyone catching the virus from me, even though unintentionally, but just because I could meet up with them socially, indoors, I won’t! 

All together now.._..it will be lonely this Christmas....._


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 7, 2020)

Fish said:



			All together now.._..it will be lonely this Christmas....._

Click to expand...

Bom Bom Bom Bom 🎸😎


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## Old Skier (Nov 7, 2020)

Looks like we’ll be back on the golf course before the American Elections finalized at this rate - just an observation


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## howbow88 (Nov 7, 2020)

IainP said:



			Just for a bit of a distraction, I wouldn't be surprised if some driving ranges, especially the top tracer style ranges, were areas of spread. Observed groups sharing bays etc.
Obviously could have closed the ranges but left the courses open.
		
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That's my thoughts too. Our bays are quite big, but loads of people have been sharing. And whilst it isn't 'inside', it is covered and you walk through the clubhouse to get there. Then you have screens too... I was taking a wet wipe with me to give it a quick clean, and then using the butt of my grip to touch the screen.

The range is my golf fix during the winter, but I understand why they have closed them. Although I participate in very little winter golf so it doesn't impact me much, banning golf as a whole seems utterly illogical.

Talks of people throwing tantrums on here... Not really. Just people a little cheesed off with the decision and discussing it. This is a discussion forum about, you know, golf. As such, when it is banned on seemingly warped logic, it is going to cause some discussion...


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## Hercules (Nov 7, 2020)

ExRabbit said:



			My thoughts exactly. It's just a few weeks.

Relax, have a walk, chip a few wiffle balls in the garden if you have one, or sponge balls indoors and putt on the carpet.

To repeat, it's only 4 weeks. No need for all the drama.
		
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You really think it's only four weeks!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2020)

SammmeBee said:



			I think you could have gone to see them...?!
		
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Many reasons why it’s not been possible but have a plan in place for Xmas if allowed including testing and isolation - sport can be replaced as an activity for a short period - seeing family is harder to replace



Hercules said:



			You really think it's only four weeks!
		
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Yes it’s 4 weeks - end date and what will happen then has already been stated


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Go on then, explain. I know what it means in English, can you explain how it works in relation to viral transmission.
		
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I see it working in the context of a community rather than an individual activity or small group of individuals together.

In any community there are a vast number of scenarios and contexts in which individuals meet or mingle in some way.  Now the risk of viral transmission between individuals in each separate context could be small - very small in some. But the risk in each context is there...

And so in a community of many thousands where without restriction there would be many hundreds of interactions at any one time, the risk of one or more transmissions happening in that community at any one time - even with care being taken we can ‘slip up’ - becomes much more significant than the risk of transmission in any single context or interaction.  And of course 54 groups on a golf course at any one time is simply a sub-community of the community in which the club is located.

Its like I said.  Roll a die once looking for a 6 and you probably won’t get one.  Roll that die 100 times and you almost certainly will get a few 6s.  But that‘s just my take on it.


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## Ethan (Nov 7, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I see it working in the context of a community rather than an individual activity or small group of individuals together.

In any community there are a vast number of scenarios and contexts in which individuals meet or mingle in some way.  Now the risk of viral transmission between individuals in each separate context could be small - very small in some. But the risk in each context is there...

And so in a community of many thousands where without restriction there would be many hundreds of interactions at any one time, the risk of one or more transmissions happening in that community at any one time - even with care being taken we can ‘slip up’ - becomes much more significant than the risk of transmission in any single context or interaction.  And of course 54 groups on a golf course at any one time is simply a sub-community of the community in which the club is located.

Its like I said.  Roll a die once looking for a 6 and you probably won’t get one.  Roll that die 100 times and you almost certainly will get a few 6s.  But that‘s just my take on it.
		
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That is a probabilistic model, you are essentially saying that even with a tiny risk, many repetitions of that risk can lead to a case. To a certain extent, that is true, although there is an opposing theory that the very small risks are actually zero, and that a certain threshold level of risk is needed to count. In probability, you need to show that the events are independent, that is that each one stands or falls alone and is not related to any other. If you do that, then each event with no effective risk should be judged in its own right, and your theory is somewhat akin to the idea that even if you have lost the lottery each week, if you keep playing your chances must improve.


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## Yorkshire Hacker (Nov 7, 2020)

Not that I am belittling 355 deaths (yesterday's count), as (we have already been here) if it was your close relative who had passed, you would be full of grief.
HOWEVER, I am slowly coming round to the idea that this isn't going away in any hurry. 
Thus, post Christmas, what are we facing? The ruination of most businesses excluding Supermarkets and Funeral Directors? The mental anguish of a nation facing unemployment, house evictions, and financial ruin? A nation so steeped in debt that our grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come?
I am absolutely stunned that our leaders (if that is the right word) have stuck with Professors Whitty, Vallance and co. Surely they can see that what we are doing just ain't working? These are the "experts" who suggested a week ago that we could be facing 4000 deaths a day, (since retracted). There are other eminent Epidemiologists available (Professor Gupta for example) who have completely opposing views to those of Whitty and Vallance.
Wouldn't it be worth while listening to their views?
I am just concerned that we appear to be going towards permanent Lockdown, but surely, it's got to end sometime, we just CANNOT go on like this?
It's nowt to do with me missing golf, I reckon I've enough on around the house, and preparation of competition motorcycles to keep me going through the winter, I just want to see some light at the end of the tunnel.......and I can't!!
I should just add, I'm off to the Supermarket soon. Without question I shall face more risk in there than I EVER will face on a golf course!


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2020)

Just had a walk in the park.
Place was rammed .
Can’t belive the swings and exercise stuff was open.
So many adults in the swings and slides making SD impossible while the kids were on the climbing frame and swings.
Guy had a outdoor gym going.


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Many reasons why it’s not been possible but have a plan in place for Xmas if allowed including testing and isolation - *sport can be replaced as an activity for a short period - seeing family is harder to replace*



Yes it’s 4 weeks - end date and what will happen then has already been stated
		
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All well and good if you have family to see; I'm seeing all of mine that I want to 24/7, golf was a break for both of us.

Still, as long as everyone else gets their Christmas Phil, eh.


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just had a walk in the park.
Place was rammed .
Can’t belive the swings and exercise stuff was open.
So many adults in the swings and slides making SD impossible while the kids were on the climbing frame and swings.
Guy had a outdoor gym going.
		
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No problem, it's outdoors🤔


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 7, 2020)

Some of us don’t need to use this time spend more time with our kids & family,some of us put them before golf & spend lots of time with them regardless of courses being open or not.
It makes no sense at all to close courses,that’s why people are annoyed by it.


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## Ethan (Nov 7, 2020)

Yorkshire Hacker said:



			Not that I am belittling 355 deaths (yesterday's count), as (we have already been here) if it was your close relative who had passed, you would be full of grief.
HOWEVER, I am slowly coming round to the idea that this isn't going away in any hurry.
Thus, post Christmas, what are we facing? The ruination of most businesses excluding Supermarkets and Funeral Directors? The mental anguish of a nation facing unemployment, house evictions, and financial ruin? A nation so steeped in debt that our grandchildren will be paying for this for years to come?
I am absolutely stunned that our leaders (if that is the right word) have stuck with Professors Whitty, Vallance and co. Surely they can see that what we are doing just ain't working? These are the "experts" who suggested a week ago that we could be facing 4000 deaths a day, (since retracted). There are other eminent Epidemiologists available (Professor Gupta for example) who have completely opposing views to those of Whitty and Vallance.
Wouldn't it be worth while listening to their views?
I am just concerned that we appear to be going towards permanent Lockdown, but surely, it's got to end sometime, we just CANNOT go on like this?
It's nowt to do with me missing golf, I reckon I've enough on around the house, and preparation of competition motorcycles to keep me going through the winter, I just want to see some light at the end of the tunnel.......and I can't!!
I should just add, I'm off to the Supermarket soon. Without question I shall face more risk in there than I EVER will face on a golf course!
		
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We listened to Gupta's views. By the way, she is a _theoretical_ epidemiologist, which is an important distinction. She wrote a paper in March suggesting that 68% of the population was immune, and that the infection fatality rate was around 1 in 10,000. This work has been comprehensively trashed and disproven, and so nobody is seriously listening to her now. She is an advocate of the Swedish approach, and expressed that view in a well known statement sponsored by right wing American libertarians. Sweden has had a death rate 5-10x that of immediate neighbours, and no better economic or mental health outcomes.

Our leaders have used Whitty and Vallance as cover at times, and ignored them at other times. If you want to listen to eminent epidemiologists, try the WHO. We should have listened better to their advice from the start.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			That is a probabilistic model, you are essentially saying that even with a tiny risk, many repetitions of that risk can lead to a case. To a certain extent, that is true, although there is an opposing theory that the very small risks are actually zero, and that a certain threshold level of risk is needed to count. In probability, you need to show that the events are independent, that is that each one stands or falls alone and is not related to any other. If you do that, then each event with no effective risk should be judged in its own right, and your theory is somewhat akin to the idea that even if you have lost the lottery each week, if you keep playing your chances must improve.
		
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The problem is that many scenarios have a very low risk of viral transmission between individuals IF all involved comply with conditions X, Y and Z.  And whilst much, if not most, of the time these conditions will be complied with - they are all subject to human will and frailty.

The lottery is a valid analogy but not quite as you frame it.  If tonight I buy one lottery ticket (I will buy 2) I am very unlikely to win something - might be lucky and win a free go 👍 If instead I buy 10,000 tickets each with a different combination of numbers, the chance of me winning something more significant in tonight’s draw becomes quite likely. Maybe not the jackpot - but something. The point being that the latter is large number of similar but factually different combinations/events that will all ‘happen’ concurrently and each with the same set of possible outcomes.


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## Ethan (Nov 7, 2020)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			The problem is that many scenarios have a very low risk of viral transmission between individuals IF all involved comply with conditions X, Y and Z.  And whilst much, if not most, of the time these conditions will be complied with - they are all subject to human will and frailty.

The lottery is a valid analogy but not quite as you frame it.  If tonight I buy one lottery ticket (I will buy 2) I am very unlikely to win something - might be lucky and win a free go 👍 If instead I buy 10,000 tickets each with a different combination of numbers, the chance of me winning something more significant in tonight’s draw becomes quite likely. Maybe not the jackpot - but something.
		
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Probability works differently at very low levels, though. The same low probability that the virus aggregates rather than disperses when playing golf is on a par (no pun intended) with a whole lot of other remote probabilities, like the postman coughed on your copy of Golf Monthly, or that virus settled on your door handle while parked at Tesco. In practice, the very unlikely individual outcomes are written off rather than added up. To take back the lottery analogy, these are the equivalent of digging your garden and finding old Roman artefacts, or having an unknown distant relative die and bequeath you there fortune.

Short version, golf will have no effect on the future course of the virus whether played or banned.

Shall we call this one all square and park it?


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 7, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			All well and good if you have family to see; I'm seeing all of mine that I want to 24/7, golf was a break for both of us.

Still, as long as everyone else gets their Christmas Phil, eh. 

Click to expand...

Every single persons situation and priorities will be different - it’s a no win situation that is completely new for the country and no matter what rules or guidelines they put in or don’t put in place then someone somewhere will not be happy as it won’t suit their situation or circumstances.

There is no book written on how this all works and in the same way all golfers become greenkeepers everyone now becomes experts on how to handle a pandemic ( generic comment )

How can they provide something that will suit everyone - should they single out golfers to carry on whilst the tennis players complain , and then other outdoor sports start to ask the same question - so do they just let everyone carry on as before - there is no right answer.

People have used the mental health element for sport to continue - Xmas is very important to a lot of people as well in regards mental health , just as seeing their families is. It’s frustrating for us all - it’s lovely weather out there and It would have been a lovely day for a game of golf - but there will be other days ahead


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## Pin-seeker (Nov 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every single persons situation and priorities will be different - it’s a no win situation that is completely new for the country and no matter what rules or guidelines they put in or don’t put in place then someone somewhere will not be happy as it won’t suit their situation or circumstances.

There is no book written on how this all works and in the same way all golfers become greenkeepers everyone now becomes experts on how to handle a pandemic ( generic comment )

How can they provide something that will suit everyone - should they single out golfers to carry on whilst the tennis players complain , and then other outdoor sports start to ask the same question - so do they just let everyone carry on as before - there is no right answer.

People have used the mental health element for sport to continue - Xmas is very important to a lot of people as well in regards mental health , just as seeing their families is. It’s frustrating for us all - *it’s lovely weather out there and It would have been a lovely day for a game of golf - but there will be other days ahead*

Click to expand...

Do you try to come across so sickly?


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## robinthehood (Nov 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every single persons situation and priorities will be different - it’s a no win situation that is completely new for the country and no matter what rules or guidelines they put in or don’t put in place then someone somewhere will not be happy as it won’t suit their situation or circumstances.

There is no book written on how this all works and in the same way all golfers become greenkeepers everyone now becomes experts on how to handle a pandemic ( generic comment )

How can they provide something that will suit everyone - should they single out golfers to carry on whilst the tennis players complain , and then other outdoor sports start to ask the same question - so do they just let everyone carry on as before -* there is no right answer*.

People have used the mental health element for sport to continue - Xmas is very important to a lot of people as well in regards mental health , just as seeing their families is. It’s frustrating for us all - it’s lovely weather out there and It would have been a lovely day for a game of golf - but there will be other days ahead
		
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There is a right answer, allow activities that are proven to be safe to carry on rather than a blanket ban on them. Its easy to do....


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## Beezerk (Nov 7, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			Just had a walk in the park.
Place was rammed .
Can’t belive the swings and exercise stuff was open.
So many adults in the swings and slides making SD impossible while the kids were on the climbing frame and swings.
Guy had a outdoor gym going.
		
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Local woods were rammed earlier, quote obviously lots of different families meeting up and going for group walks. Car park was a disaster zone, vehicles dumped everywhere.
Half a mile away is my golf course, deserted despite being able to socially distance 1,000 times better than the gimps in the woods.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Probability works differently at very low levels, though. The same low probability that the virus aggregates rather than disperses when playing golf is on a par (no pun intended) with a whole lot of other remote probabilities, like the postman coughed on your copy of Golf Monthly, or that virus settled on your door handle while parked at Tesco. In practice, the very unlikely individual outcomes are written off rather than added up. To take back the lottery analogy, these are the equivalent of digging your garden and finding old Roman artefacts, or having an unknown distant relative die and bequeath you there fortune.

Short version, golf will have no effect on the future course of the virus whether played or banned.

Shall we call this one all square and park it?
		
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Ok 👍


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## rulefan (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Probability works differently at very low levels, though. The same low probability that the virus aggregates rather than disperses when playing golf is on a par (no pun intended) with a whole lot of other remote probabilities, like the postman coughed on your copy of Golf Monthly, or that virus settled on your door handle while parked at Tesco. In practice, the very unlikely individual outcomes are written off rather than added up. To take back the lottery analogy, these are the equivalent of digging your garden and finding old Roman artefacts, or having an unknown distant relative die and bequeath you there fortune.

Short version, golf will have no effect on the future course of the virus whether played or banned.

Shall we call this one all square and park it?
		
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Preferably not in a Tesco car park


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## Ethan (Nov 7, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Preferably not in a Tesco car park
		
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Touché.


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2020)

Swinglowandslow said:



			No problem, it's outdoors🤔
		
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Should have only banned indoor golf then


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2020)

So many people on the local nature reserve all mingling and even a game of footie going on. People have no clue and so didn't stay there long. Golf course empty and we're not allowed to even use it to walk on. Going to be a long few weeks and not 100% it'll make too much difference it people don't get their fingers out. Still think we're heading for a major lockdown for January and February but not sure this firebreak is doing it


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## Ethan (Nov 7, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			So many people on the local nature reserve all mingling and even a game of footie going on. People have no clue and so didn't stay there long. Golf course empty and we're not allowed to even use it to walk on. Going to be a long few weeks and not 100% it'll make too much difference it people don't get their fingers out. *Still think we're heading for a major lockdown for January and February but not sure this firebreak is doing it*

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, you can bet on it. This firebreak is to allow Christmas commerce and family stuff, but the Govt knows there is a price to be paid for it. That bill will start to come in right around new year.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Oh yeah, you can bet on it. This firebreak is to allow Christmas commerce and family stuff, but the Govt knows there is a price to be paid for it. That bill will start to come in right around new year.
		
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Not a bad plan though is it? No one has any cash after a Christmas splurge and January and February are the coldest two months and the height of the flu season so shutting up like first lockdown (so everything bar food shops, chemists etc) and keeping people as far apart as possible and see how the land lies in March


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## Ethan (Nov 7, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not a bad plan though is it? No one has any cash after a Christmas splurge and January and February are the coldest two months and the height of the flu season so shutting up like first lockdown (so everything bar food shops, chemists etc) and keeping people as far apart as possible and see how the land lies in March
		
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Well, I am not sure the public understand the price they may pay for that family get together. Jan and Feb may be economically quiet but hospital pressures are often very high then, and flu is peaking, so the pressures on hospitals may be extreme then. I think it is unwise to bring too many family members around and we will do the minimum shopping for Christmas.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Well, I am not sure the public understand the price they may pay for that family get together. Jan and Feb may be economically quiet but hospital pressures are often very high then, and flu is peaking, so the pressures on hospitals may be extreme then. I think it is unwise to bring too many family members around and we will do the minimum shopping for Christmas.
		
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I agree totally but dependant on what Johnson says post lockdown a lot of families are going to make Christmas a big hurrah which I think inevitably will lead to the R number going up again. I accept hospitals are peaking with flu so by trying to keep people as separate as possible so imposing a major lockdown would seem to be the only option available. We have already agreed with the in-laws we are doing separate Christmas day although HID will take the father in law some Christmas dinner to heat up (M-I-L doesn't eat and fed via a peg so not point him paying for a turkey and cooking for one)


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## IanM (Nov 7, 2020)

Comparison of what is and isn't allowed always seems to defy logic...regardless of whether its Boris, or one of the regional folk saying so.  Especially when its your activity stopped.

We've had it over here for weeks in one form or another.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 7, 2020)

Just back 7pm from walk to our local town centre supermarket for a few bits and pieces.  Town virtually empty, no queue at supermarket and very quiet inside - and everyone wearing a mask and keeping their distance.


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## Diamond (Nov 7, 2020)

There are enough imbeciles and morons in this country to keep this cycle going until we get a vaccine that is proven to work and a process in place where everyone is vaccinated.


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## Tiger man (Nov 7, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Every single persons situation and priorities will be different - it’s a no win situation that is completely new for the country and no matter what rules or guidelines they put in or don’t put in place then someone somewhere will not be happy as it won’t suit their situation or circumstances.

There is no book written on how this all works and in the same way all golfers become greenkeepers everyone now becomes experts on how to handle a pandemic ( generic comment )

How can they provide something that will suit everyone - should they single out golfers to carry on whilst the tennis players complain , and then other outdoor sports start to ask the same question - so do they just let everyone carry on as before - there is no right answer.

People have used the mental health element for sport to continue - Xmas is very important to a lot of people as well in regards mental health , just as seeing their families is. It’s frustrating for us all - it’s lovely weather out there and It would have been a lovely day for a game of golf - but there will be other days ahead
		
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Golf cannot be compared to any other sport other than fishing and exercise such as running, cycling etc for being able to safely isolate. Tennis is played using the same ball for starters. I would totally support the decision if it was part of a tight lockdown but from what I have seen in shops and parks etc this is just a lockdown lite and people are not taking it as seriously as the first one.


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## Hercules (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			We listened to Gupta's views. By the way, she is a _theoretical_ epidemiologist, which is an important distinction. She wrote a paper in March suggesting that 68% of the population was immune, and that the infection fatality rate was around 1 in 10,000. This work has been comprehensively trashed and disproven, and so nobody is seriously listening to her now. She is an advocate of the Swedish approach, and expressed that view in a well known statement sponsored by right wing American libertarians. Sweden has had a death rate 5-10x that of immediate neighbours, and no better economic or mental health outcomes.

Our leaders have used Whitty and Vallance as cover at times, and ignored them at other times. If you want to listen to eminent epidemiologists, try the WHO. We should have listened better to their advice from the start.
		
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Try the WHO! Dr Who would have more sense than that bunch. Gupta's views have not been trashed or disproven by anyone. 
Could not believe the numbers out walking today - would have been further apart on the links!


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## Ethan (Nov 7, 2020)

Hercules said:



			Try the WHO! Dr Who would have more sense than that bunch. Gupta's views have not been trashed or disproven by anyone.
Could not believe the numbers out walking today - would have been further apart on the links!
		
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The WHO have hands on experience in dealing with pandemics. They recommended swift lockdown and lots of testing, both basic public health. They were ignored. Dr Who's advice is not known. She has been self-isolating back on Gallifrey during the pandemic. 

Gupta's views have been trashed plenty. Maybe not in the stuff you read, but in reputable and scientific journals. Her March paper has been discredited as, to use the technical term, crap, and subsequent papers have been declined for publication. She has complained publicly about the conspiracy against her. The Swedish model has also been shown to have worse outcomes than Norway and Finland. In May she said the pandemic had largely finished in the UK. Oops. 

She was willing to act as a shill for the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian group sponsored by right wing dark money who wrote the Great Barrington Declaration. That makes her disreputable and untrustworthy in my book.


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## Hercules (Nov 7, 2020)

Ethan said:



			The WHO have hands on experience in dealing with pandemics. They recommended swift lockdown and lots of testing, both basic public health. They were ignored. Dr Who's advice is not known. She has been self-isolating back on Gallifrey during the pandemic.

Gupta's views have been trashed plenty. Maybe not in the stuff you read, but in reputable and scientific journals. Her March paper has been discredited as, to use the technical term, crap, and subsequent papers have been declined for publication. She has complained publicly about the conspiracy against her. The Swedish model has also been shown to have worse outcomes than Norway and Finland. In May she said the pandemic had largely finished in the UK. Oops.

She was willing to act as a shill for the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian group sponsored by right wing dark money who wrote the Great Barrington Declaration. That makes her disreputable and untrustworthy in my book.
		
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Not in my book. Along with Henegan, Sikora and Yeadon


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## Ethan (Nov 8, 2020)

Hercules said:



			Not in my book. Along with Henegan, Sikora and Yeadon
		
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Great. You should try reading some better books. 

If you actually believe what she says, why don't you explain to me why she is right about the 68%, and also explain how a herd immunity stragey could be controlled so as not to crash the NHS. If you are unable to do those, one must presume you don't really get it.


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## Hercules (Nov 8, 2020)

Ethan said:



			Great. You should try reading some better books.

If you actually believe what she says, why don't you explain to me why she is right about the 68%, and also explain how a herd immunity stragey could be controlled so as not to crash the NHS. If you are unable to do those, one must presume you don't really get it.
		
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If you don't get it with herd immunity how do you the think human race has coped in the past with flu viruses? And don't give me vaccination!
How do you know that the NHS will crash? It's always under pressure at this time of year


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## BiMGuy (Nov 8, 2020)

Hercules said:



			If you don't get it with herd immunity how do you the think human race has coped in the past with flu viruses? And don't give me vaccination!
How do you know that the NHS will crash? It's always under pressure at this time of year
		
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So let's pile more pressure on. Great idea. 

You seem to have picked a side and will only believe the people who write things that support this. 

The way out of this is a reliable, cheap quick test and effective treatments. Along with people taking some personal responsibility and taking sensible precautions.


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## Ethan (Nov 8, 2020)

Hercules said:



			If you don't get it with herd immunity how do you the think human race has coped in the past with flu viruses? And don't give me vaccination!
How do you know that the NHS will crash? It's always under pressure at this time of year
		
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I understand herd immunity, thanks. You don't. The human race has coped with viruses by having millions die. Maybe you are in favour of the survival of the fittest approach? Flu devastated the world post WW1, and further pandemics have occurred since. However, Covid is not flu and has a case fatality rate approx 10x greater.  Over the century, people have gathered degrees of immunity to some strains of flu, and this provides degrees of protection supplemented by specific vaccinations to the most vulnerable whose base immunity is not so strong.

So I will give you vaccination. It has had a major effect on polio, diphtheria, tetanus, rabies, smallpox, flu, measles, mumps, rubella, some forms of meningitis, to a lesser extent TB, and so on. Your opinion on vaccination is irrelevant - it is a critical public health measure, and that is a fact.

The NHS is under pressure already, it always is in winter, so you have answered your own question - there is little reserve. If you have a clever plan to control the flow of sacrificial victims into the NHS, lets hear it. Most sensible people would consider that rather hard to do, and the NHS would quickly become overwhelmed, and then all the cancer patients and others to whom you pay lip service would differ too. And the ethics of herd immunity are highly problematic.

A lot of lockdown sceptics claim to care about other patients in the NHS, but I reckon they don't really care at all and just use that as an excuse to cover what they really want, to be able to go to the pub, shops, hang out with friends, go to football. That would be a very callous and cynical position, not that any of them would admit to it.


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## Hercules (Nov 8, 2020)

Ethan said:



			I understand herd immunity, thanks. You don't. The human race has coped with viruses by having millions die. Maybe you are in favour of the survival of the fittest approach? Flu devastated the world post WW1, and further pandemics have occurred since. However, Covid is not flu and has a case fatality rate approx 10x greater.  Over the century, people have gathered degrees of immunity to some strains of flu, and this provides degrees of protection supplemented by specific vaccinations to the most vulnerable whose base immunity is not so strong.

So I will give you vaccination. It has had a major effect on polio, diphtheria, tetanus, rabies, smallpox, flu, measles, mumps, rubella, some forms of meningitis, to a lesser extent TB, and so on. Your opinion on vaccination is irrelevant - it is a critical public health measure, and that is a fact.

The NHS is under pressure already, it always is in winter, so you have answered your own question - there is little reserve. If you have a clever plan to control the flow of sacrificial victims into the NHS, lets hear it. Most sensible people would consider that rather hard to do, and the NHS would quickly become overwhelmed, and then all the cancer patients and others to whom you pay lip service would differ too. And the ethics of herd immunity are highly problematic.

A lot of lockdown sceptics claim to care about other patients in the NHS, but I reckon they don't really care at all and just use that as an excuse to cover what they really want, to be able to go to the pub, shops, hang out with friends, go to football. That would be a very callous and cynical position, not that any of them would admit to it.
		
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So someone else's opinion is irrelevant according to you. You must be a very important person.
Contrary to what you allege I am not interested in going to the pub etc. I would just like some honesty from people regarding the current situation instead of numbers being invented to support it.(10x fatality rate!). Perhaps then we can all get back to playing golf and the other things we enjoy.


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## Ethan (Nov 8, 2020)

Hercules said:



			So someone else's opinion is irrelevant according to you. You must be a very important person.
Contrary to what you allege I am not interested in going to the pub etc. I would just like some honesty from people regarding the current situation instead of numbers being invented to support it.(10x fatality rate!). Perhaps then we can all get back to playing golf and the other things we enjoy.
		
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You really don't get it. Some things are not a matter of opinion - the Earth is not flat, gravity is real, bacon is the food of the Gods and vaccinations work. As a famous American politician said "You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts". It would be equally irrelevant if you thought the Earth was flat - you possibly do. It isn't. 

Funnily enough, for someone who seems keen on facts, you haven't provided a single solitary one, not even a half baked one. So, if you plan to respond by accusing me of making up numbers, then prove me wrong. You have not offered one shred of fact or evidence for anything you have said, so I will assume you are just full of hot air.

And I didn't allege that _you_ wanted to just go to the pub, but I see it struck a nerve.


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## larmen (Nov 15, 2020)

Golf courses are still closed and I am fine with that. My back is actually getting better and I give it a go again when they open in December 

What I am wondering about is, we walked past a boathouse this lunch time and there seemed to have been some action. Boys in shorts being collected by parents in big cars. Turns out, boat house of the local private school.

Is rowing allowed while golf/tennis/football ... are not? Is it allowed because schools are open and it is a school activity?


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## DanFST (Nov 15, 2020)

larmen said:



			Golf courses are still closed and I am fine with that. My back is actually getting better and I give it a go again when they open in December

What I am wondering about is, we walked past a boathouse this lunch time and there seemed to have been some action. Boys in shorts being collected by parents in big cars. Turns out, boat house of the local private school.

Is rowing allowed while golf/tennis/football ... are not? Is it allowed because schools are open and it is a school activity?
		
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Kids are playing sports as normal at school. 

One of my friends teaches at a school with a golf course, plays every morning.


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## robinthehood (Nov 15, 2020)

I took a few balls and club  over the field today and hit a few shots. Was nice and I'm looking forward to December


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 15, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Kids are playing sports as normal at school.

One of my friends teaches at a school with a golf course, plays every morning.
		
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If I played at my club later would that count as night school?


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## yandabrown (Nov 18, 2020)

I see that the petition is set to be debated in the house on the 23rd November, I wonder if anything will change.


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## Lord Tyrion (Nov 18, 2020)

yandabrown said:



			I see that the petition is set to be debated in the house on the 23rd November, I wonder if anything will change.
		
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I suspect it is so close to the Dec 2nd date that there will be no change. Any change would also mean that the govt would lose face. What it will hopefully do is put forward the case for lifting the restrictions come Dec 2nd and also if we go into a further lockdown later on keeping golf available to play this time.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 18, 2020)

clubchamp98 said:



			If I played at my club later would that count as night school?
		
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Why not enroll on the PGA course then it might count as further education


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## rudebhoy (Nov 18, 2020)

14 days to December 2nd, will be interesting to see if our BRS opens for bookings today.


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## banjofred (Nov 18, 2020)

I think I've already read this somewhere and of course can't remember....are the courses supposed to *open* on 2 Dec....or on the 3rd?


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## Imurg (Nov 18, 2020)

Restrictions are in force up to and including 2nd December..


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## banjofred (Nov 18, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Restrictions are in force up to and including 2nd December..
		
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That would make it the 3rd then.


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## Imurg (Nov 18, 2020)

banjofred said:



			That would make it the 3rd then.
		
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Indeed it would.


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## robinthehood (Nov 18, 2020)

rudebhoy said:



			14 days to December 2nd, will be interesting to see if our BRS opens for bookings today.
		
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Ours have said they'll open up so we can book the usual 7 days before.


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## banjofred (Nov 18, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Ours have said they'll open up so we can book the usual 7 days before.
		
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Kind of strange how each golf course does different things with the dates. IFFFFF I had wanted to play golf on 3 Dec (Thursday) at our place I would put myself down tonight after 6pm.....just over 2 weeks before.


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## robinthehood (Nov 18, 2020)

banjofred said:



			Kind of strange how each golf course does different things with the dates. IFFFFF I had wanted to play golf on 3 Dec (Thursday) at our place I would put myself down tonight after 6pm.....just over 2 weeks before.
		
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Ours said on the closure notice they'd be opening the BRS as normal so we can start booking post lockdown. Subject to any government changes.


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## Robster59 (Nov 18, 2020)

Even on Tier 4 restrictions in Scotland where I live, the courses are still open.  However, you are not permitted to drive outside your local authority area for exercise, although an exception is made if you are forced to cross boundaries in the process of playing, such as if a golf course straddles two local authority area boundaries.


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## woofers (Nov 18, 2020)

On what basis do you think tee booking sheets should open ?
As before lockdown? Or guess that there will be restrictions, such as 2 or 3 ball only ?
Or wait until there is a confirmed opening date ?


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## jimbob.someroo (Nov 18, 2020)

woofers said:



			On what basis do you think tee booking sheets should open ?
As before lockdown? Or guess that there will be restrictions, such as 2 or 3 ball only ?
Or wait until there is a confirmed opening date ?
		
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Our club has basically taken this approach. Said that they're not going to open the booking until there's confirmation on golf being OK from the 3rd, and also waiting to see if there's group size restrictions.

Frustrating but understandable. Although I'm going to miss the excitement that came with having my tee time booked in a few weeks ahead of time for the opening like last time. That anticipation felt like Christmas!


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## Imurg (Nov 18, 2020)

No point in opening the books for 2,3 and 4 balls if your particular area comes out in tier 3 (or even 4 if they extend it) and only 2 balls are allowed so clubs revert to 9 holes only to get enough people on the course.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 18, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Ours have said they'll open up so we can book the usual 7 days before.
		
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Ours has said we'll take bookings a week ahead of the 3rd Dec - 4 balls at 8min intervals.  Subject to any changes that ongoing covid restrictions may require...

Plus to accommodate the needs of as many members as possible, the regular tee reservations for all gents and ladies roll-ups will be suspended until 10th December.


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## Reemul (Nov 18, 2020)

woofers said:



			On what basis do you think tee booking sheets should open ?
As before lockdown? Or guess that there will be restrictions, such as 2 or 3 ball only ?
Or wait until there is a confirmed opening date ?
		
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Did post this in another thread but here seems better.

I'm not happy with mine, Open from midnight today to book for 2 weeks time, all slots to fill up if necessary. So a 2 ball or 3 ball will have players added to them. Non members allowed after a week. No change to intervals every 8 minutes.

Personally I only play with my son in our own bubble, don't want to play with strangers or people I do not know and be happy they follow the rules correctly. I appreciate they need the income but I need safety, my wife is high risk with holes in her lungs currently so it looks like I will have to play at my sons other course which I am not a member of until things clear down. It could be it is not as busy, fishing last week was a lot quieter than it had been so maybe golf will as well.

Not sure of the solution currently but I am doing my bit, I renewed in the middle of shut down and paid up, cost of around £1,000 I would liek to think it's worth something and not playing with 2 people I  don't know while Covid is still out and about but it think its more likely I will not play there.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 18, 2020)

We've not been told yet what is happening. I guess it depends on how we re-open. We had been five days in advance.


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## 5OTT (Nov 18, 2020)

Cant really see us being open again in early December, can't help feeling they will extend lockdown by a couple of weeks at least.

I've written this year off already.


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## SteveJay (Nov 18, 2020)

Imurg said:



			No point in opening the books for 2,3 and 4 balls if your particular area comes out in tier 3 (or even 4 if they extend it) and only 2 balls are allowed so clubs revert to 9 holes only to get enough people on the course.
		
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We were in Tier 3 before the latest lockdown, but weren't limited to 2 balls so hoping we wouldn't be come 3rd December.


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## Bermuda (Nov 18, 2020)

I have lived for 23 years in what has only ever been deemed in today's world tier1, and I just moved to another tier 1 area that is close to tier f Ing zero, the courses are shut, what a load of shxt


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## Robster59 (Nov 19, 2020)

Still staying open in Scotland, even in Tier 4.  Our club has a Covid officer which also means different rules.


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## OnTour (Nov 22, 2020)

Robster59 said:



			Still staying open in Scotland, even in Tier 4.  Our club has a Covid officer which also means different rules.
		
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Scotland seems to have a plan, unlike Boris for England.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2020)

We were tier 2 before so interesting to see if that's still the case. Working on the premise the bar won't be open though so turn up, play and straight home


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We were tier 2 before so interesting to see if that's still the case. Working on the premise the bar won't be open though so turn up, play and straight home
		
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Even tier 3 would be open just 2 balls so there is hope


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

OnTour said:



			Scotland seems to have a plan, unlike Boris for England.
		
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Plan for what ?

We still have just under 2 weeks to go , it’s already been said that areas will go back into their tier once lockdown finishes and the rules that comes with those tiers

Tomorrow there is going to be further instructions on any updated restrictions within the various tiers mainly in regards indoors etc

Right now from the 3rd Dec we will be back to how we were before whilst playing golf - the clubhouse opening etc will be determined by the tier your area is in


pauljames87 said:



			Even tier 3 would be open just 2 balls so there is hope
		
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Why just 2balls ? All tiers allow up to 6 to mix outdoors


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## Golfnut1957 (Nov 22, 2020)

I went to B&Q yesterday, big mistake. It was absoluyely rammed, it took me 20 minutes to get out of the car park.

Went and walked the course this afternnon with the dog. It looks quite tidy and of course it was completely empty.


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Plan for what ?

We still have just under 2 weeks to go , it’s already been said that areas will go back into their tier once lockdown finishes and the rules that comes with those tiers

Tomorrow there is going to be further instructions on any updated restrictions within the various tiers mainly in regards indoors etc

Right now from the 3rd Dec we will be back to how we were before whilst playing golf - the clubhouse opening etc will be determined by the tier your area is in


Why just 2balls ? All tiers allow up to 6 to mix outdoors
		
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I miss remembered I thought tier 3 was when you could meet in group of 6 outside but only 2 households 

Bit confused why my club mentioned it twice now that they don't no if two or four balls 

Maybe from the first lockdown


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2020)

Golfnut1957 said:



			I went to B&Q yesterday, big mistake. It was absoluyely rammed, it took me 20 minutes to get out of the car park.

Went and walked the course this afternnon with the dog. It looks quite tidy and of course it was completely empty.
		
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HID wen to get petrol at the local Sainsbury's around 10.15 and queueing out of the car park and onto the roundabout gridlocking everything. People were snaking across half the car par so I would suggest a good 150-200 people waiting to get in at the start of trading plus all those still in the cars. What lockdown?


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## SammmeBee (Nov 22, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Even tier 3 would be open just 2 balls so there is hope
		
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6 balls were fine in the pre-lockdown Tier 3......


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## pauljames87 (Nov 22, 2020)

SammmeBee said:



			6 balls were fine in the pre-lockdown Tier 3......
		
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Well no 6 balls never been fine 🤣


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## Golfnut1957 (Nov 22, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			HID wen to get petrol at the local Sainsbury's around 10.15 and queueing out of the car park and onto the roundabout gridlocking everything. People were snaking across half the car par so I would suggest a good 150-200 people waiting to get in at the start of trading plus all those still in the cars. *What lockdown?*

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Exactly. Pubs and Golf Courses it seems.


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## Imurg (Nov 22, 2020)

Don't be surprised to see changes to the tiers, making them tougher than before.


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## upsidedown (Nov 22, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Don't be surprised to see changes to the tiers, making them tougher than before.
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Don't be surprised to see changes to the tiers, making them tougher than before.
		
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That’s what the announcement will be tomorrow - tougher restrictions on indoors and pubs


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## hovis (Nov 22, 2020)

My understanding is we are out of lockdown on the 2nd (Wednesday 00.01am).   So golf on Wednesday.

The news said today that we'll be subject to new rules in the tier system from the 2nd.  Some think that means we'll be back playing golf Thursday!!!


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## Imurg (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			My understanding is we are out of lockdown on the 2nd (Wednesday 00.01am).   So golf on Wednesday.

The news said today that we'll be subject to new rules in the tier system from the 2nd.  Some think that means we'll be back playing golf Thursday!!!
		
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Current restrictions are in operation up to and including 2nd December...so back to golf on the 3rd..hopefully


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			My understanding is we are out of lockdown on the 2nd (Wednesday 00.01am).   So golf on Wednesday.

The news said today that we'll be subject to new rules in the tier system from the 2nd.  Some think that means we'll be back playing golf Thursday!!!
		
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Restrictions up to and including 2nd Dec so Thursday will be the earliest


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## SammmeBee (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			My understanding is we are out of lockdown on the 2nd (Wednesday 00.01am).   So golf on Wednesday.

The news said today that we'll be subject to new rules in the tier system from the 2nd.  Some think that means we'll be back playing golf Thursday!!!
		
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Thursday.......


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## hovis (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Restrictions up to and including 2nd Dec so Thursday will be the earliest
		
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Can you show me your info please as need to make plans if what I'm seeing is wrong


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## NearHull (Nov 22, 2020)

upsidedown said:



View attachment 33659

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May I suggest an Ad Blocker.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			Can you show me your info please as need to make plans if what I'm seeing is wrong
		
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Briefing we have had from work and all the hotels being prepared to open back up on the 3rd Dec after lockdown ends - also including the Wednesday would mean it would be a full 4 weeks as lock down started on the Thursday at 00:01


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## Imurg (Nov 22, 2020)

Driving tests and lessons were originally supposed to restart on the 2nd until DVSA realised they'd made the same mistake as, seemingly, many have and changed to restarting on the 3rd.


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## hovis (Nov 22, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Briefing we have had from work and all the hotels being prepared to open back up on the 3rd Dec after lockdown ends - also including the Wednesday would mean it would be a full 4 weeks as lock down started on the Thursday at 00:01
		
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I'm even more confused.  My Work told me that it's Wednesday.  They've even booked me on a course 😳. I'm desperate to dodge that course so Thursday is good with me


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			I'm even more confused.  My Work told me that it's Wednesday.  They've even booked me on a course 😳
		
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I suspect they should clarify it more tomorrow on the exact timings - well hopefully they should to give people time to plan


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## rulefan (Nov 22, 2020)

OnTour said:



			Scotland seems to have a plan, unlike Boris for England.
		
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How can anyone have a plan? To the best of my knowledge the virus isn't consulted on it's future. Any response must be a reaction.


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## anotherdouble (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			I'm even more confused.  My Work told me that it's Wednesday.  They've even booked me on a course 😳. I'm desperate to dodge that course so Thursday is good with me
		
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Unfortunately a lot of people can’t do basic counting. Lockdown started at 0001 on a Thursday morning and lasts for 4 weeks so that means it lasts until 2359/0000 Wednesday night.


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## hovis (Nov 22, 2020)

anotherdouble said:



			Unfortunately a lot of people can’t do basic counting. Lockdown started at 0001 on a Thursday morning and lasts for 4 weeks so that means it lasts until 2359/0000 Wednesday night.
		
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The bbc news just this second said "on Wednesday the 2nd the lockdown will be replaced with a tougher teir system". 
If it was 0000 Wednesday night they would have said Thursday.

Also, the lockdown always said to the 2nd.  We all presumed 4 weeks


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## MendieGK (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			The bbc news just this second said "on Wednesday the 2nd the lockdown will be replaced with a tougher teir system".
If it was 0000 Wednesday night they would have said Thursday.

Also, the lockdown always said to the 2nd.  We all presumed 4 weeks
		
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Im
Very much with you on this. Everything says ‘up to Weds’ and ‘until weds’ so either it’s weds, or the government website has worded it VERY badly


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 22, 2020)

Seen a few notices in this area saying Gyms are planning to re-open on the Wednesday unless the Government extend the Lockdown.

So not just Golfers who maybe confused.


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## anotherdouble (Nov 22, 2020)

hovis said:



			The bbc news just this second said "on Wednesday the 2nd the lockdown will be replaced with a tougher teir system".
If it was 0000 Wednesday night they would have said Thursday
Also, the lockdown always said to the 2nd.  We all presumed 4 weeks
		
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Taken from gov website 

On Thursday 5 November these national restrictions replaced the Local Covid Alert Level measures.
*The new measures will apply nationally for four weeks up to Wednesday 2 December.* At the end of that period, we will return to a regional approach, based on the latest data.

if you booked a holiday at work from 5th Nov to 2nd dec would you go back on the 2nd or 3rd?


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## KenL (Nov 22, 2020)

After the year we've all had what difference will a day make?


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## Swinglowandslow (Nov 22, 2020)

Reemul said:



			Did post this in another thread but here seems better.

I'm not happy with mine, Open from midnight today to book for 2 weeks time, all slots to fill up if necessary. So a 2 ball or 3 ball will have players added to them. Non members allowed after a week. No change to intervals every 8 minutes.

Personally I only play with my son in our own bubble, don't want to play with strangers or people I do not know and be happy they follow the rules correctly. I appreciate they need the income but I need safety, my wife is high risk with holes in her lungs currently so it looks like I will have to play at my sons other course which I am not a member of until things clear down. It could be it is not as busy, fishing last week was a lot quieter than it had been so maybe golf will as well.

Not sure of the solution currently but I am doing my bit, I renewed in the middle of shut down and paid up, cost of around £1,000 I would liek to think it's worth something and not playing with 2 people I  don't know while Covid is still out and about but it think its more likely I will not play there.
		
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Agree wholeheartedly with your way of playing during Covid.
It is still the main objective- to avoid Covid- , more important than playing golf in situations you're not happy with. 
It's for each to decide their way so long as it doesn't impact others: I also play with only (two )others who I trust to be sensible.


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## anotherdouble (Nov 22, 2020)

KenL said:



			After the year we've all had what difference will a day make?
		
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A lot as I have a lot of things to do in my new house before the work starts to pile up again😜


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## hovis (Nov 22, 2020)

I work for the civil service. They couldn't wait to book my course on the Wednesday 🤷‍♂️


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## anotherdouble (Nov 22, 2020)

Hovis turn up for the course and if it not going ahead then claim for the wasted time and book a days extra holiday mate. Don’t you lose out👍


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## MendieGK (Nov 22, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Whilst I believe the lockdown still exists on Wed 2nd, the wording of "up to Wednesday 2nd" means that it should finish at midnight Tuesday.

I just think they've worded it poorly.
		
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LBC website has this exact wording. Mass confusion


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## Crazyface (Nov 22, 2020)

My place "believe" they will re-open on Wednesday 2nd.


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## Fish (Nov 23, 2020)

Get them open 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/5503838...[post+type]&at_custom2=twitter&at_campaign=64


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## robinthehood (Nov 23, 2020)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Briefing we have had from work and all the hotels being prepared to open back up on the 3rd Dec after lockdown ends - also including the Wednesday would mean it would be a full 4 weeks as lock down started on the Thursday at 00:01
		
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We're opening up on Wednesday.


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## robinthehood (Nov 23, 2020)

And my other club says Thursday 🤣. Doesn't matter as I'll not be playing till the weekend anyway.


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## sunshine (Nov 23, 2020)

Golf set to be debated at 4:30pm (in 5 minutes time). You can watch it here:

Parliamentlive.tv - Guide


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## hovis (Nov 23, 2020)

anotherdouble said:



			Unfortunately a lot of people can’t do basic counting. Lockdown started at 0001 on a Thursday morning and lasts for 4 weeks so that means it lasts until 2359/0000 Wednesday night.
		
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Cough, cough


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## SammmeBee (Nov 24, 2020)

Defo Wednesday now (but it still should have technically been Thursday!!)


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