# tee height?



## Rooter (Mar 31, 2014)

chaps, being really thick today. basically went to the range earlier and pretty much all of the strike marks from my driver were on the top 3rd of the face, should i be teeing it lower or is there a possible technique problem causing this? the range tees were the same height as the pink castles i have always used... flight and distance was still good, but not out of the middle!

So tee it lower or get a lesson?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 31, 2014)

Rooter said:



			chaps, being really thick today. basically went to the range earlier and pretty much all of the strike marks from my driver were on the top 3rd of the face, should i be teeing it lower or is there a possible technique problem causing this? the range tees were the same height as the pink castles i have always used... flight and distance was still good, but not out of the middle!

So tee it lower or get a lesson?
		
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Tee it lower - worth a try :thup:


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## Foxholer (Mar 31, 2014)

If you check these links out, you will notice that the Sweet Spot is not in the centre of the club - but top third!

http://www.golftoimpress.com/driver-real-loft-real-face-angle-real-specs/

http://www.golf.com/instruction/find-your-drivers-hot-spot

Presumably, the SLDR - with low and forward CoG will be lower.

So as long as the strikes feel good, that's all that matters!


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## the_coach (Mar 31, 2014)

Rooter said:



			chaps, being really thick today. basically went to the range earlier and pretty much all of the strike marks from my driver were on the top 3rd of the face, should i be teeing it lower or is there a possible technique problem causing this? the range tees were the same height as the pink castles i have always used... flight and distance was still good, but not out of the middle!

So tee it lower or get a lesson?
		
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Sounds that it's likely to be a bit of an AoA problem, it could well be the downswing a tad too narrow & steep. What was the starting direction of the shots & the flight curvature overall?

But remember the actual sweet spot of any of the modern larger recent drivers isn't bang out of the middle anyways. Driver sweet spot is approximately a quarter inch top of plum geometric center of the face.

As the best AoA with driver is a plus one, an upswing through impact you definitely don't want too tee the ball down that will only encourage what you don't want, a negative downward AoA with a steeper, narrower downswing.


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## London mike 61 (Mar 31, 2014)

the_coach said:



			Sounds that it's likely to be a bit of an AoA problem, it could well be the downswing a tad too narrow & steep. What was the starting direction of the shots & the flight curvature overall?

But remember the actual sweet spot of any of the modern larger recent drivers isn't bang out of the middle anyways. Driver sweet spot is approximately a quarter inch top of plum geometric center of the face.

As the best AoA with driver is a plus one, an upswing through impact you definitely don't want too tee the ball down that will only encourage what you don't want, a negative downward AoA with a steeper, narrower downswing.
		
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Thanks coach, I've had a bit of a issue with my angle of attack and I'm glad you posted this reply as I think I may have slipped into some bad habits off the tee.
time to go back to basics!


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## Rooter (Apr 1, 2014)

the_coach said:



			Sounds that it's likely to be a bit of an AoA problem, it could well be the downswing a tad too narrow & steep. What was the starting direction of the shots & the flight curvature overall?

But remember the actual sweet spot of any of the modern larger recent drivers isn't bang out of the middle anyways. Driver sweet spot is approximately a quarter inch top of plum geometric center of the face.

As the best AoA with driver is a plus one, an upswing through impact you definitely don't want too tee the ball down that will only encourage what you don't want, a negative downward AoA with a steeper, narrower downswing.
		
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AoA has been a problem for me in all clubs for ever, so thats one possible(read most likely!)

Direction is straight, very slight fade. bad one is a big fade, not quite a slice!

AoA it is me thinks, thanks for the input guys. Any drills coach? this is a problem with all clubs not just driver!


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## One Planer (Apr 1, 2014)

Do you tee your irons and fairway woods high(er) or keep them low to the turf?


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## Rooter (Apr 1, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Do you tee your irons and fairway woods high(er) or keep them low to the turf?
		
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Low low low, tee shot with an iron will be on a tee, but at ground level, same with hybrid. if i tee up my 5 wood, its say 5mm off the deck maximum ish? my problem i think is bottoming out too early, i have been known to take a massive divot with my 5 wood! think i need to see my pro, angle of attack is too steep causing it me thinks...


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## One Planer (Apr 1, 2014)

Rooter said:



			Low low low, tee shot with an iron will be on a tee, but at ground level, same with hybrid. if i tee up my 5 wood, its say 5mm off the deck maximum ish? my problem i think is bottoming out too early, i have been known to take a massive divot with my 5 wood! think i need to see my pro, angle of attack is too steep causing it me thinks...
		
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Sergio Garcia takes a fair old divot with his fairway woods, and, from what I read you should take a small _scrape_ with a fairway wood.

If you're digging a trench, then I would suggest seeing a pro.


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## Rooter (Apr 1, 2014)

Gareth said:



			Sergio Garcia takes a fair old divot with his fairway woods, and, from what I read you should take a small _scrape_ with a fairway wood.

If you're digging a trench, then I would suggest seeing a pro.
		
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Would not say it's a trench! Maybe bigger than a scrape though! Will get myself checked out!


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## Maninblack4612 (Apr 1, 2014)

Rooter said:



			So tee it lower or get a lesson?
		
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I had a range session the other day with impact tape on the driver to check how near the middle of the club I was getting. I was really surprised to find everything coming off the top half of the club. Teeing it lower helped immediately. The thing is, when I get a shot off the heel or toe I usually know from the feel & ball flight but the high impacts felt completely solid, although they did fly a bit high.

Definitely worth checking.


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## the_coach (Apr 1, 2014)

Rooter said:



			AoA has been a problem for me in all clubs for ever, so thats one possible(read most likely!)

Direction is straight, very slight fade. bad one is a big fade, not quite a slice!

AoA it is me thinks, thanks for the input guys. Any drills coach? this is a problem with all clubs not just driver!
		
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Yep, know this is long ....:rofl:.....

Given the direction, flight above, you're going to be coming at the ball with some degree of out to in swing path. Face angle either slightly open to a ways open through impact giving you your overall range of flights left to right.

First thing as always (there's a good reason why Tour Pro's put so much work into this) is checking all the basic fundamentals of grip, (check the handle lies mostly in fingers of both hands & 'V's point to mid right shoulder) aim (this will want change & have to come back a ways right of where you're currently aimed, back to target not left of it), alignment (has to be parallel left & square to that new slightly a ways right more at target aim point, not left of it) 
Good posture, arms hanging from shoulders not reaching/holding them out a ways.

Looking in particular with the driver, best ball position for folks in my experience is off the inside of the left heel, your PC tee height is good, has to be that high to get a good +AoA given a couple more parameters. If it's teed down the swing will get steeper still.

Although most folks get the forward leaning (towards ball/target line) spine angle pretty much in a workable position many don't get the spine tilt to the right some away from target at address correct 7 they actively try to get their shoulders level (not at all what you want)
Level shoulders also makes your right arm straighter & often a deal tenser & the killer here - higher than the left arm, this is always going to give you some degree of open shoulders at address.

To find the correct spine tilt: So with ball in the correct place get in posture, keep in posture but take right hand off the club, now slide your right hand down the side of right leg until the tips of fingers are level with where the top of your right knee is.

You'll now notice the spine tilt you also need to have, & keep. Posture at address has to be kept to & through impact for consistent ball striking with whatever club.

Without changing any of this posture simply bring your right hand back to the club from the side onto the handle & form grip, important you don't change any of the posture putting the right hand back on the club.

No doubt this will feel a tad odd, uncomfortable even but if you want a different +AoA & better contact on face, better shots, you have to go with the change. If you settle back to comfortable you'll keep getting the same results you've always got I'm afraid.

{NB: this spine tilt should be there with all clubs for the very reason that your right hand is lower on the club than left, so the right side is always consistently lower, right shoulder, right hip, right knee lower than the left side.
This tilt is greater with the driver as the ball is high up on tee & you also looking to strike upwards through impact. Shots with ball on ground this spine tilt away from target will naturally be much less but still there a little, nevertheless.}

With this tilt with the driver position you now are in you'll notice your right arm is now lower than the left & also it's not straight but is soft with a soft slight bend at the elbow, this is what you want. 

To get a +AoA your swing path needs to be shallower coming in so that couple inches before the ball your driver's swing arc reaches it's lowest point.
If you have the correct address position & ball position you have already pre-set the right conditions for this low point & then upwards approach to & through impact.

All you need to do is make the backswing smooth & connected with your body pivot, keep your posture to the top, _important to complete turn properly_ but not over swing with the arms & club, feel the shaft at top is over the tip of right shoulder & short of parallel.

Key now to good +AoA _is the transition starting from the ground up, feel your back stays looking at target momentarily & your arms & club 'feel' almost still at the top_, they won't actually be so, but this will stop your upper body starting the downswing which is what gives you a steep, out to in path & contact too high on the driver's face.

This starting down at transition with the weight on left side, with a lateral couple inches hip bump towards target before the hip turns is what gives you a swing path that comes from the inside which is also going to be shallower which gives you the low point of arc before the strike allowing you a +AoA.

Drill: (with all correct fundamentals as above particularly get ball position but it all needs to be right here to start with ) 
With driver, swinging at 75% to be able to get sequence right, practice swings feeling that 'low point' couple inches before the ball.

Imagine that in front of your actual ball is a 'ghost ball', the ghost ball is on a tee half a ball higher & couple inches in front of your real ball but also an 1" more to the right.

Your goal is to swing through to impact passing through the low point couple inches before the ball then collecting your actual ball on the face (not hitting at) but then also going upwards through to collect the 'ghost ball' as well.

When you do this you'll feel after a little practice how the club shallows out before getting to the ball & then you'll get a good +AoA through impact, you should also if you've aimed & aligned body up properly get a much better ball flight at target. 

NB:
If you're someone who hovers the club at address with the driver, then address the ball in middle of face width-wise but at that slightly higher sweet spot spoken about before.

However if you're someone who grounds the driver at address you'll need to address the ball towards the toe. 
Why, try it, driver grounded, if you address the ball towards the toe and then raise the club you'll see the face gets into the right position at the height you'll be swinging through.
But if you ground driver with the ball addressed in the 'middle' of face (width-wise), then raise the club so the face is at the height it will be through impact you'll see you'd be contacting the ball with the heel of the driver.


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## the_coach (Apr 1, 2014)

Maninblack4612 said:



			I had a range session the other day with impact tape on the driver to check how near the middle of the club I was getting. I was really surprised to find everything coming off the top half of the club. Teeing it lower helped immediately. The thing is, when I get a shot off the heel or toe I usually know from the feel & ball flight but the high impacts felt completely solid, although they did fly a bit high.

Definitely worth checking.
		
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To be honest teeing it low is no good, just encourages an even steeper out to in swing path, which is also coupled with a tendency to leave weight on the right side which encourages a flip through impact & high even ballooned shots.

Counterintuitive but you have to do the opposite, keep the tee height, start your downswing from the ground up and feel you swing on an in to out path, which will give you the conditions at impact to contact the ball at sweet spot which is just slightly above exact middle of geometric driver face center. The in to out swing path will correct the steep approach (which is the problem being faced) and allow the approach to be shallow to impact & on a +AoA, upward path.


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## Maninblack4612 (Apr 1, 2014)

the_coach said:



			To be honest teeing it low is no good,
		
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No, I was simply teeing it too high. Comes right out the middle now, good flight, low spin, I've rarely hit it better.


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## Astraeus (Apr 1, 2014)

An elementary guide to tee height from our continental friend, Mr Strongert.  I found it quite helpful to understand the effect on the ball of different tee heights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXpsIrr8TD8&index=58


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## HomerJSimpson (Apr 1, 2014)

Is it just the range you are struggling? Have you been custom fitted for your tees to take out on the course


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## G1BB0 (Apr 1, 2014)

Scott, I have just gone to a blue golf pride tee for extra height as working on a positive angle of attack with my pro. Darent use it at the weekend as still not comfortable (the old over the top still creeping in on a full swing)

I noticed I was catching the dial on the R1 on Sunday a few times but wasnt the clubs fault it was the div swinging it. Had a lesson last night and a half swing with + AoA was still rolling out to 220 due to the strike and extra roll it gave. Food for thought.


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## Rooter (Apr 2, 2014)

Just tried the below extract from the coach in my kitchen, no club etc, but spine angle change must be at least 5 degrees, if not more. Actually looking forward to going to the range to see what i can do!! And Homer, no i didnt get custom fit for my tee's, thats probably the real issue here, not me! 

To find the correct spine tilt: So with ball in the correct place get in posture, keep in posture but take right hand off the club, now slide your right hand down the side of right leg until the tips of fingers are level with where the top of your right knee is.

You'll now notice the spine tilt you also need to have, & keep. Posture at address has to be kept to & through impact for consistent ball striking with whatever club.

Without changing any of this posture simply bring your right hand back to the club from the side onto the handle & form grip, important you don't change any of the posture putting the right hand back on the club.


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