# The effects of a lighter shaft..



## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

Has anyone ever tested or looked deeply into the effects of lighter weighted iron shafts? What I mean is, beside swingweight, do you or have you noticed anything obvious when changing to a lighter shaft either at first or eventually just couldn't get away from? 

Here's what I am initially seeing with my new clubs which have 24 gram lighter shafts, which doesn't sound much, but it feels loads compared to what were in my MP-52's. 

New TM's S300 SL = 106 grammes
MP-52's S300 XP = 130 grammes

I'm starting to see more of a slight fade with my light weight steel shafts with everything else being equal, so, what I'm trying to determine is, if I have a new set of irons I really like but have noticed more of a tendency to fade shots and the shafts are much lighter than I'm used to, would replacing them with a heavier version of the same shaft make a difference, on the DG fitting site it matches me to the new XP 95 S300 which are even lighter at 95 grammes  

I'm also_ just_ catching the ground very slightly before striking the ball, something I haven't done for a long time, it's not excessive (no divots) but in the softer conditions has a bigger [slappy] effect and obvious loss of distance.

Has this change to a lighter shaft possibly made me get a little more quicker and as such I've lost what tempo I had prior with my heavier shafts and systematically the club head isn't get back on plain?  

Is there anything I should or could try to do first before thinking about changing back to a heavier shaft. 

From what I have searched and understand, I think, the shaft weight controls the total weight of the club more than any other element in a golf club, but matching the weight of the club to my natural sense of swing timing, tempo and strength isn't just a matter of total weight, it's also a matter of the headweight feel, ie the swingweight, so, is it possible to test for swingweight before you make a decision about the shaft weight needed, and if so, how :mmm:

The shafts I tried initially in AG in my new irons were KBS Tour C-Taper [stiff] and felt great, unfortunately I couldn't get them fitted when the order was being telephoned through to TM, not even as an upgrade and was told these I have now are the closest or so similar I wouldn't notice the difference to the stats I produced, but I am, as they were 120 grammes, unless they were the taper lite at 110 grammes, but both still heavier! 

Is it just too early (3 rounds) for me to be looking for results with such a big change and it's just a case of practice, practice, practice rather than a quick fix, or.......


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## Tiger (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi 

Ethan is your shaft man but I have seen this article about the various different weights in the Nippon family http://www.golfshaftreviews.info/index.php/nippon-shaft-n-s-pro-steel/

What I dont get is why you aren't getting back in plane with lighter shafts??? I'd have thought the opposite would happen. Maybe you are just being a little tentative? Based on my limited knowledge I don't know if the KBS C Taper is a different beast to the DG XP 95... but I'm stunned AG said it wasn't available as an upgrade...


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

Tiger said:



			Hi 

Ethan is your shaft man but I have seen this article about the various different weights in the Nippon family http://www.golfshaftreviews.info/index.php/nippon-shaft-n-s-pro-steel/

What I dont get is why you aren't getting back in plane with lighter shafts??? I'd have thought the opposite would happen. Maybe you are just being a little tentative? Based on my limited knowledge I don't know if the KBS C Taper is a different beast to the DG XP 95... but I'm stunned AG said it wasn't available as an upgrade... 

Click to expand...

I was in the store after my fitting when they rang Taylormade asking for the KBS Tour C-Tapers to be fitted but he was told they couldn't put them in, it was then that the alternative was offered and I went with it


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## BTatHome (Nov 22, 2015)

Not sure after three rounds with new clubs and different shafts on very different ground conditions that I'd be wanting to swap out shafts just yet.

I always find I get a bit more slappy during winter just simply because anything less than a great strike takes a clump of mud too. For me, I'd be practising on the course much more (rather than the range that doesn't give you the same impact). Confidence will come back when you start getting used to the new setup


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## MashieNiblick (Nov 22, 2015)

We are all different, but being a bit of a light weight myself with a moderate swing speed but quite a quick tempo, lighter weight shafts certainly have been a real benefit to me. I would say the main change for me is feeling I can swing the club more easily and get much better feel, distance and flight from a lighter shaft. No trackman numbers but just on using the various different demo clubs I have collected over the years, this seems to make more difference in some cases than shaft flex, e.g whereas I didn't really notice much difference between DG SL R300 and S300, I hit both much better than standard TT DG R300.

I am currently using MP53s with Dynalite Gold XP R300 (Mizuno DNA recommendation) and I wouldn't want to have anything heavier than that.

People talk about being able to feel where the head is in the swing and if the clubs are too light overall of if the swingweight is too light you may lose that, as I understand it though, most people won't notice a swingweight difference of a couple of points or so.

I don't think the TT  fitting site is particularly fine tuned. I have used it a few times and I think it is only likely to give a rough guide. Only hitting the clubs will really tell you (you know that anyway).

One problem of course is that there is now so much choice that it is really easy (and tempting) to think when we don't hit the ball perfectly that somehow it is because the clubs aren't exactly right for us. Once that thought gets in you head then it is difficult to dislodge.

Are you sure about the weights you have put in your post.

According to the TT trimming guide Standard DG S300s weigh 130 but Dynalite XP S300 weigh 117. 

http://www.truetemper.com/wp-content/uploads/2013-Product-Spec-Trimming-Guide_v2.pdf


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## Hobbit (Nov 22, 2015)

Maybe I'm reading TM's website wrong but the shaft you wanted is listed. I'd give TM a call.


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## Junior (Nov 22, 2015)

I have XP 95 s300's Robin.  What I noticed was that I cant get too quick with them, otherwise i lose the feel of where the club head is, end up flicking at the ball and firing it left.

When my tempo is good, they do feel superb though.


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## Imurg (Nov 22, 2015)

I've just changed from S300s ( 130g) to GS95s (100ish).
Swing weight very similar so they don't really feel very different. Clubs are about 15g lighter overall with the GS95 - heavier head?
Either way I'm hitting them sweet, maybe picked up a little swing speed but they seem to be working well.


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## Oddsocks (Nov 22, 2015)

I'm getting the complete opposite to the OP.  I had xp95s300 that where very smooth and easy to hit, maybe more like a firm then a stiff.

I've tried standard sl300, kbs tour 120g and also px6.0 all of which run around the 120g-130g and all of which completely throw my tempo.  Whether it's a physiological effect I don't know , but I get the feeling that my swing changes and forces me to try and force every shot with these.  If I don't the I get big high fades.

I'm 99% sure my standard kbs120's are going to be leaving the bag shortly in favour of xp105/95 or kbs 90/105


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## Hobbit (Nov 22, 2015)

Oddsocks said:



			I'm getting the complete opposite to the OP.  I had xp95s300 that where very smooth and easy to hit, maybe more like a firm then a stiff.

I've tried standard sl300, kbs tour 120g and also px6.0 all of which run around the 120g-130g and all of which completely throw my tempo.  Whether it's a physiological effect I don't know , but I get the feeling that my swing changes and forces me to try and force every shot with these.  If I don't the I get big high fades.

I'm 99% sure my standard kbs120's are going to be leaving the bag shortly in favour of xp105/95 or kbs 90/105
		
Click to expand...

Sounds very similar to my experiences of the s300's and kbs tour. If you are thinking of changing, consider Nippon's lighter shafts too. I had them in my Titliest 712cb's... miss them, and thinking of putting them in my TM Rsi-tp's.


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## Oddsocks (Nov 22, 2015)

Had a look around and it seems used rsi2's are most common with kbs105's :thup:

Just means my almost new tp mc's will have to go.  It was only the other day i noticed a similar patten to that of when I was trying to play px6


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## Tiger (Nov 22, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Maybe I'm reading TM's website wrong but the shaft you wanted is listed. I'd give TM a call.
		
Click to expand...

That's what I thought...?


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## Qwerty (Nov 22, 2015)

Junior said:



			I have XP 95 s300's Robin.  What I noticed was that I cant get too quick with them, otherwise i lose the feel of where the club head is, end up flicking at the ball and firing it left.

When my tempo is good, they do feel superb though.
		
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Im the same Robin, used them for years in my MP53s.
As Andy says.. you can't get too quick, its easy for the body to get a ahead of the hands/arms. 

I seem to struggle If I try out anything with a heavier shaft nowadays. 
I reckon they'll come good mate :thup:


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## Oddsocks (Nov 22, 2015)

Fish said:



Has anyone ever tested or looked deeply into the effects of lighter weighted iron shafts? What I mean is, beside swingweight, do you or have you noticed anything obvious when changing to a lighter shaft either at first or eventually just couldn't get away from? 

Here's what I am initially seeing with my new clubs which have 24 gram lighter shafts, which doesn't sound much, but it feels loads compared to what were in my MP-52's. 

New TM's S300 SL = 106 grammes
MP-52's S300 XP = 130 grammes

I'm starting to see more of a slight fade with my light weight steel shafts with everything else being equal, so, what I'm trying to determine is, if I have a new set of irons I really like but have noticed more of a tendency to fade shots and the shafts are much lighter than I'm used to, would replacing them with a heavier version of the same shaft make a difference, on the DG fitting site it matches me to the new XP 95 S300 which are even lighter at 95 grammes  

I'm also_ just_ catching the ground very slightly before striking the ball, something I haven't done for a long time, it's not excessive (no divots) but in the softer conditions has a bigger [slappy] effect and obvious loss of distance.

Has this change to a lighter shaft possibly made me get a little more quicker and as such I've lost what tempo I had prior with my heavier shafts and systematically the club head isn't get back on plain?  

Is there anything I should or could try to do first before thinking about changing back to a heavier shaft. 



Click to expand...



Robin, are you sure you have this info right?

From previous fittings and someone who has played xps300 I think you have the info arse about face.

*Dynalite* xp's are know as a lighter version of the dynamic gold range not heavier, hence the *LITE* in the name.

I played xp95-s300 which were a 95g stiff, these are also available in xp105 (105g) and xp115 (105g) , from here you then venture into the dynamic gold range which starts at 120g

When fitted I was either a xp105 stiff which plays more like a light weight firm or a standard r300


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## MashieNiblick (Nov 22, 2015)

Oddsocks said:



			Robin, are you sure you have this info right?

From previous fittings and someone who has played xps300 I think you have the info arse about face.

*Dynalite* xp's are know as a lighter version of the dynamic gold range not heavier, hence the *LITE* in the name.
		
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I think he's just got the weight for XP S300 wrong (see above). S300 SL = Superlite and are indeed 106 grammes.


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

http://www.truetemper.com/products/dynamic-gold/


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## Oddsocks (Nov 22, 2015)

Be interesting to test sl300 against xp's in the same weight

Wast aware of a 130g dynalite


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

Just had a reply from AG relating to this, it was recommend by AG I needed a Stiff but a lighter version so DG SL but the CTaper lite isn't a option due to butt size of the clubs, although that was what I was testing with in their bay!!!


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## moogie (Nov 22, 2015)

The 130g being quoted is for standard DG S300

I'm sure the XP in the 52's is about 115-117g
Softer,  higher launching than the DG S300


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## moogie (Nov 22, 2015)

Fish said:



			Just had a reply from AG relating to this, it was recommend by AG I needed a Stiff but a lighter version so DG SL but the CTaper lite isn't a option due to butt size of the clubs, although that was what I was testing with in their bay!!!




Click to expand...


Due to "butt" size.....??
Or
Tip size.....??


Neither makes sense,  especially as there was a demo shaft for you to try


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

moogie said:



			The 130g being quoted is for standard DG S300

I'm sure the XP in the 52's is about 115-117g
Softer,  higher launching than the DG S300
		
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Still heavier than the 106 I now have so the issue is still relevant.


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## Oddsocks (Nov 22, 2015)

So they are saying the sl300 105 is right for you?


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

moogie said:



			Due to "butt" size.....??
Or
Tip size.....??


Neither makes sense,  especially as there was a demo shaft for you to try
		
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These are what I used in the fitting and really liked them, they are 110g, came to ordering and phoning the order through and was told that due to butt size they weren't an option.

http://kbsgolfshafts.com/shafts/kbs-ctaper-lite

When questioned that they had them in the fitting bay, I've been informed this is due to shafts & heads being demo 

I think coming down to 106g has become a step too far, but I'll see how I get on with them for a bit longer.


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## moogie (Nov 22, 2015)

The "butt" size ,  is the grip end
So ,  I'm confused


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

moogie said:



			The "butt" size ,  is the grip end
So ,  I'm confused
		
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Here is the exact reply from AG on my twitter account_  "__Alex recommend you need a Stiff but light version so DG SL but the CTaper lite isn't a option due to butt size of the clubs"_


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## ruff-driver (Nov 22, 2015)

Robin, this may be worth looking into

http://pluggedingolf.com/what-is-counter-weighting

or

http://www.gamolagolf.co.uk/acatalog/Lead_Plug_Weights.html


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## garyinderry (Nov 22, 2015)

Fish said:



Has anyone ever tested or looked deeply into the effects of lighter weighted iron shafts? What I mean is, beside swingweight, do you or have you noticed anything obvious when changing to a lighter shaft either at first or eventually just couldn't get away from? 

Here's what I am initially seeing with my new clubs which have 24 gram lighter shafts, which doesn't sound much, but it feels loads compared to what were in my MP-52's. 

New TM's S300 SL = 106 grammes
MP-52's S300 XP = 130 grammes

I'm starting to see more of a slight fade with my light weight steel shafts with everything else being equal, so, what I'm trying to determine is, if I have a new set of irons I really like but have noticed more of a tendency to fade shots and the shafts are much lighter than I'm used to, would replacing them with a heavier version of the same shaft make a difference, on the DG fitting site it matches me to the new XP 95 S300 which are even lighter at 95 grammes  

I'm also_ just_ catching the ground very slightly before striking the ball, something I haven't done for a long time, it's not excessive (no divots) but in the softer conditions has a bigger [slappy] effect and obvious loss of distance.

Has this change to a lighter shaft possibly made me get a little more quicker and as such I've lost what tempo I had prior with my heavier shafts and systematically the club head isn't get back on plain?  

Is there anything I should or could try to do first before thinking about changing back to a heavier shaft. 

From what I have searched and understand, I think, the shaft weight controls the total weight of the club more than any other element in a golf club, but matching the weight of the club to my natural sense of swing timing, tempo and strength isn't just a matter of total weight, it's also a matter of the headweight feel, ie the swingweight, so, is it possible to test for swingweight before you make a decision about the shaft weight needed, and if so, how :mmm:

The shafts I tried initially in AG in my new irons were KBS Tour C-Taper [stiff] and felt great, unfortunately I couldn't get them fitted when the order was being telephoned through to TM, not even as an upgrade and was told these I have now are the closest or so similar I wouldn't notice the difference to the stats I produced, but I am, as they were 120 grammes, unless they were the taper lite at 110 grammes, but both still heavier! 

Is it just too early (3 rounds) for me to be looking for results with such a big change and it's just a case of practice, practice, practice rather than a quick fix, or.......

Click to expand...


It probably is too early.  I would attempt to get rid of the slightly fat shot.   


If this problem persists, liverbirdie is the man you may want to talk to.  He has these in kbs stiff and has talked about wanting to try them in lighter shafts. I will mention this to him when we play later if he doesn't see this thread. A swop could be in order.


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## 3565 (Nov 22, 2015)

Fish said:



Has anyone ever tested or looked deeply into the effects of lighter weighted iron shafts? What I mean is, beside swingweight, do you or have you noticed anything obvious when changing to a lighter shaft either at first or eventually just couldn't get away from? 

Here's what I am initially seeing with my new clubs which have 24 gram lighter shafts, which doesn't sound much, but it feels loads compared to what were in my MP-52's. 

New TM's S300 SL = 106 grammes
MP-52's S300 XP = 130 grammes

I'm starting to see more of a slight fade with my light weight steel shafts with everything else being equal, so, what I'm trying to determine is, if I have a new set of irons I really like but have noticed more of a tendency to fade shots and the shafts are much lighter than I'm used to, would replacing them with a heavier version of the same shaft make a difference, on the DG fitting site it matches me to the new XP 95 S300 which are even lighter at 95 grammes  

I'm also_ just_ catching the ground very slightly before striking the ball, something I haven't done for a long time, it's not excessive (no divots) but in the softer conditions has a bigger [slappy] effect and obvious loss of distance.

Has this change to a lighter shaft possibly made me get a little more quicker and as such I've lost what tempo I had prior with my heavier shafts and systematically the club head isn't get back on plain?  

Is there anything I should or could try to do first before thinking about changing back to a heavier shaft. 

From what I have searched and understand, I think, the shaft weight controls the total weight of the club more than any other element in a golf club, but matching the weight of the club to my natural sense of swing timing, tempo and strength isn't just a matter of total weight, it's also a matter of the headweight feel, ie the swingweight, so, is it possible to test for swingweight before you make a decision about the shaft weight needed, and if so, how :mmm:

The shafts I tried initially in AG in my new irons were KBS Tour C-Taper [stiff] and felt great, unfortunately I couldn't get them fitted when the order was being telephoned through to TM, not even as an upgrade and was told these I have now are the closest or so similar I wouldn't notice the difference to the stats I produced, but I am, as they were 120 grammes, unless they were the taper lite at 110 grammes, but both still heavier! 

Is it just too early (3 rounds) for me to be looking for results with such a big change and it's just a case of practice, practice, practice rather than a quick fix, or.......

Click to expand...

e

ive just been on a club fitting course and it's a mine field when dealing with changes in club specs. I have the Nippon modus 3 120's stiff in my irons which are 114g and are a great shaft, but I've tried and bought the new Nippon modus3 105's stiff at 106.5g after testing and found I swung 6mph faster which equates to 10-12yards further and no different in ball flight in height or shape. But I tried an Orka GS5 head on a 95g regular shaft with a 25g grip and swung at D4 the same as mine and it felt great and again not much difference in flight. But shaft bend/droop could be different from the 2 different shafts. 

Im a little confused why they can't put the KBS shaft into your TM's.


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## the_coach (Nov 22, 2015)

Fish said:



Has anyone ever tested or looked deeply into the effects of lighter weighted iron shafts? What I mean is, beside swingweight, do you or have you noticed anything obvious when changing to a lighter shaft either at first or eventually just couldn't get away from? 

Here's what I am initially seeing with my new clubs which have 24 gram lighter shafts, which doesn't sound much, but it feels loads compared to what were in my MP-52's. 

New TM's S300 SL = 106 grammes
MP-52's S300 XP = 130 grammes

I'm starting to see more of a slight fade with my light weight steel shafts with everything else being equal, so, what I'm trying to determine is, if I have a new set of irons I really like but have noticed more of a tendency to fade shots and the shafts are much lighter than I'm used to, would replacing them with a heavier version of the same shaft make a difference, on the DG fitting site it matches me to the new XP 95 S300 which are even lighter at 95 grammes  

I'm also_ just_ catching the ground very slightly before striking the ball, something I haven't done for a long time, it's not excessive (no divots) but in the softer conditions has a bigger [slappy] effect and obvious loss of distance.

Has this change to a lighter shaft possibly made me get a little more quicker and as such I've lost what tempo I had prior with my heavier shafts and systematically the club head isn't get back on plain?  

Is there anything I should or could try to do first before thinking about changing back to a heavier shaft. 

From what I have searched and understand, I think, the shaft weight controls the total weight of the club more than any other element in a golf club, but matching the weight of the club to my natural sense of swing timing, tempo and strength isn't just a matter of total weight, it's also a matter of the headweight feel, ie the swingweight, so, is it possible to test for swingweight before you make a decision about the shaft weight needed, and if so, how :mmm:

The shafts I tried initially in AG in my new irons were KBS Tour C-Taper [stiff] and felt great, unfortunately I couldn't get them fitted when the order was being telephoned through to TM, not even as an upgrade and was told these I have now are the closest or so similar I wouldn't notice the difference to the stats I produced, but I am, as they were 120 grammes, unless they were the taper lite at 110 grammes, but both still heavier! 

Is it just too early (3 rounds) for me to be looking for results with such a big change and it's just a case of practice, practice, practice rather than a quick fix, or.......

Click to expand...


hope the following makes some sense bit jet-lagged in Seoul (around 20.45)

from the description of shot outcome issues


currently with the new lighter club set-up this problem is goin back to transition (previously with the heavier shafts the transition must have been more 'active' from the top)

so now with a similar transition move the lighter club from the top is goin a little ways out over the plane plus the 'active' move from the top is also losing the 'angle' between arms/hands & shaft a little ways too soon in the downswing so then the "low point" of the swing arc is at the back of the ball
along with very possibly now leaving too much weight coming into impact on the trailside.

so lost 'angle' leading to slight fats plus little ways out to in swing path with the face little ways open so the fades

ways forwards with the new club set-up would be to make sure you have weight into the leadside leading transition plus 'calming' down some the start of transition arms/hands/club so the 'angles' are not lost too early

the explanation from the company(AG) must be a typo - as it's tip diameter that must be the difference here so either in the UK they don't have the shafts in parallel tip, or taper tip (depending on the 'diameter needed to fit the hosel in the particular iron model) this must be due to the cost of carrying different shaft options (or maybes it's just down to the staff & the particular outlet of AG visited, but probably not am guessing if you tried a different company trying for the original spec they'd say the same - not available)

the shaft you wanted originally is an option back home - so maybes folks looking at the custom options & seeing that's it's 'available' are on the US TM site - guess that's because given the numbers of folks buying back home - TM perhaps think it's economically viable back home to carry more shaft options - where there company policy through cost won't allow as many options in the UK perhaps?


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## Hobbit (Nov 22, 2015)

Having spoken to someone in the trade. If TM & AG haven't got it in stock with the shaft you want they won't do an upgrade. The Rsi 2's are a discontinued product. TM & AG are selling off the old stock.

Yes you used to be able to get the Rsi 2's in whatever shaft was on TM's website, whilst it was a current product.


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

Info gained from a TM employee, "We didn't run C-Taper lite in RSi TP as it is a parallel tipped shaft, RSi TP need taper tip." 

Just a shame AG had the set-up in their store though which I liked only then to be told I couldn't have them but.....


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Having spoken to someone in the trade. If TM & AG haven't got it in stock with the shaft you want they won't do an upgrade. The Rsi 2's are a discontinued product. TM & AG are selling off the old stock.

Yes you used to be able to get the Rsi 2's in whatever shaft was on TM's website, whilst it was a current product.
		
Click to expand...

There not RSi 2's, they are Tour Preferred and not discontinued.


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## 3565 (Nov 22, 2015)

the_coach said:



			hope the following makes some sense bit jet-lagged in Seoul (around 20.45)

from the description of shot outcome issues


currently with the new lighter club set-up this problem is goin back to transition (previously with the heavier shafts the transition must have been more 'active' from the top)

so now with a similar transition move the lighter club from the top is goin a little ways out over the plane plus the 'active' move from the top is also losing the 'angle' between arms/hands & shaft a little ways too soon in the downswing so then the "low point" of the swing arc is at the back of the ball
along with very possibly now leaving too much weight coming into impact on the trailside.

so lost 'angle' leading to slight fats plus little ways out to in swing path with the face little ways open so the fades

ways forwards with the new club set-up would be to make sure you have weight into the leadside leading transition plus 'calming' down some the start of transition arms/hands/club so the 'angles' are not lost too early

the explanation from the company(AG) must be a typo - as it's tip diameter that must be the difference here so either in the UK they don't have the shafts in parallel tip, or taper tip (depending on the 'diameter needed to fit the hosel in the particular iron model) this must be due to the cost of carrying different shaft options (or maybes it's just down to the staff & the particular outlet of AG visited, but probably not am guessing if you tried a different company trying for the original spec they'd say the same - not available)

the shaft you wanted originally is an option back home - so maybes folks looking at the custom options & seeing that's it's 'available' are on the US TM site - guess that's because given the numbers of folks buying back home - TM perhaps think it's economically viable back home to carry more shaft options - where there company policy through cost won't allow as many options in the UK perhaps?
		
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Agree. 

The fact that a heavier shaft may have caused a more aggressive transition to be able to make the shaft load and work more and now with a 24g difference the same aggressive transition maybe causing this inconsistent ball striking. Go practise at the range, try backing off the pace you swing at say to about 80% and try with a narrower stance (6" gap between feet) and then assess how your swinging and ball contact goes.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 22, 2015)

5g is a big change in weight let alone 25g. 25g is huge, it's like removing the weight of 7 X 1p coins from your shaft. 

In the past I have been fitted for DG XP and DG SL and in both cases went back to mid weight PX 5.5 with better results. I'll just be sticking to the PX now.

A computer program cannot tel you what shaft weight is best for you. I actually swing a heavier shaft faster as I know where the club is so have confidence to give it a rip.

I think unless someone is a really slow swinger, super light shafts are a bit of a dangerous path to go down. Potentially pick up SS and lose angle of attack, face, path, face to path.... Bad trade off, good sales tool.


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## 3565 (Nov 22, 2015)

Fish said:



			Info gained from a TM employee, "We didn't run C-Taper lite in RSi TP as it is a parallel tipped shaft, RSi TP need taper tip." 

Just a shame AG had the set-up in their store though which I liked only then to be told I couldn't have them but.....
		
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You can get C Taper lite in taper tip?!!!! 

Golfstorepro sell them so I can't see why you didn't get what you want? I'd dig deeper if I was you?


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## 3565 (Nov 22, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			5g is a big change in weight let alone 25g. 25g is huge, it's like removing the weight of 7 X 1p coins from your shaft. 

In the past I have been fitted for DG XP and DG SL and in both cases went back to mid weight PX 5.5 with better results. I'll just be sticking to the PX now.

A computer program cannot tel you what shaft weight is best for you. I actually swing a heavier shaft faster as I know where the club is so have confidence to give it a rip.

I think unless someone is a really slow swinger, *super light shafts are a bit of a dangerous path to go down.* Potentially pick up SS and lose angle of attack, face, path, face to path.... Bad trade off, good sales tool.
		
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not really, it depends how you get the club set up? I tried a Orka GS5 head with 95g reg shaft with a 25g grip and swung at D4 same as mine yet saw no difference in traj, distance, feel-if anything it felt better then mine. The only issue I had was the size of the grip was a lot thinner then I'm used to and saw a draw more pronounced then my own. But it felt as tho I could be as aggressive with the 95g shaft as I do with my own 114g shaft.


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## daverollo (Nov 22, 2015)

Sounds like another good reason to avoid AG when it comes to club fitting. Only interested in making a sale!

The whole concept of a lighter shaft is to increase club head speed, up to a point. A lot will also depend on when a player releases the club, early or late.  For me personally I had 3 different fittings (different companies) to see what the service and results were like before I pulled the trigger on making a purchase.

All showed to me I didn't return the club head back to the ball consistently square when using a heavier shaft. Nippon NS pro 105 works a treat though.


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## Fish (Nov 22, 2015)

daverollo said:



			Sounds like another good reason to avoid AG when it comes to club fitting. Only interested in making a sale!

The whole concept of a lighter shaft is to increase club head speed, up to a point. A lot will also depend on when a player releases the club, early or late.  For me personally I had 3 different fittings (different companies) to see what the service and results were like before I pulled the trigger on making a purchase.

All showed to me I didn't return the club head back to the ball consistently square when using a heavier shaft. Nippon NS pro 105 works a treat though.
		
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Your first paragraph is unfounded and wrong, more so if you took the time to read my posts stating that I was present when they telephoned TM and also later quoting a TM employee as to availability, as such, no blame per se can be put at AG's door, my issue if any is with TM.


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## Hobbit (Nov 22, 2015)

Fish said:



			There not RSi 2's, they are Tour Preferred and not discontinued.
		
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Sorry Robin. Reight, take 2. Spoken to the lad, and no you can't get the c-taper in the rsi-tp's anymore. AG are right.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 22, 2015)

Intersting read as always with this type of thread. I've always been on the cusp of stiff with swing speed but always found them a little heavy/harder to control. Went with the option of hard stepping the CFC (Ping stock shaft - R flex) as a way of firming up. So many options out there these, with a decent fitter, there are no excuses for finding the optimum one for your game if you want to go down the CF route. Still a valid argument for off the shelf and I know many, far lower than me, that walked in, hit a few balls and walked out with the clubs


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## pokerjoke (Nov 22, 2015)

Stick with them mate and learn to hit them.

After 3 rounds its way too early and as you say the ground is wet and heavy atm.

I hit your 6 iron well first time and it really felt good they seem nice clubs.


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## SAPCOR1 (Nov 23, 2015)

25g = 1oz which is about a teaspoon of sugar.  Does it really make such a difference?


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## patricks148 (Nov 23, 2015)

I got the c taper 120 in my MP4's. felt a whole lot lighter than the S 300 I've been using. Took a while to get used to the TBH, at least 3 months. so i would hold fire with any changes.


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## Region3 (Nov 23, 2015)

My current shafts are 125g and my new ones will be 102g.

In my thorough and extensive custom fitting, the lighter shafts made me feel more like I had control of the path of the club rather than the club dictating and my hands having to follow.

Of course, this could just be me subconsciously talking myself into thinking I NEED new clubs. 

I'm looking forward to it, but no doubt I'm the most nervous apprehensive I've ever been about changing clubs.

If TM/AG are prepare to subsidise the cost of changing shafts with another fitting then it might be worth doing, but if the brunt of the cost is going to be all yours I'd persevere a while longer.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 24, 2015)

SAPCOR1 said:



			25g = 1oz which is about a teaspoon of sugar.  Does it really make such a difference?
		
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Ye its huge!! You would notice it just by picking it up let alone swing it round your head.


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