# Compressed Hours- holiday entitlement



## virtuocity (May 25, 2018)

My place of work has a compressed hours scheme.  I thought about working my weekly hours over 4 days, instead of 5.  However, I then learned that they take 20% off your holiday entitlement.

Is this normal practice?


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## Kellfire (May 25, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			My place of work has a compressed hours scheme.  I thought about working my weekly hours over 4 days, instead of 5.  However, I then learned that they take 20% off your holiday entitlement.

Is this normal practice?
		
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Where I work, we get allocated a set number of hours leave per year dependent on the hours you work, so it doesn't matter if you work four or five days, you'd still get the same leave.


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## GregKael (May 25, 2018)

Seems iffy to me, almost like your bosses have found some way of getting people to work more for less, and think it's a good thing. It's probably entirely legal but it's definitely unfair.


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## AMcC (May 25, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			My place of work has a compressed hours scheme.  I thought about working my weekly hours over 4 days, instead of 5.  However, I then learned that they take 20% off your holiday entitlement.

Is this normal practice?
		
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My wife works with the Local Authority, she does her 10 days over 9 and has every second Friday off.  There is a complicated way that it is worked out, depending if a compressed hours day falls on a public holiday etc and having to pay back for holidays.  She reckons she may lose 1 day over a year but certainly not 20%, she has over 30 days anyway.  pm me if you want


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## tincup (May 25, 2018)

I work compressed hours in the NHS and work 37.5 hours over 4 days instead of 5. Because I still work full time hours I get the full entitlement which is 300 hours including bank holidays. And when bank holidays fall on a Monday (the day I dont work) I get them hours to take elsewhere.
Although when i want to book days off i have to use 9.5 hours per day instead of 7.5 hours like other members of the department unless it is a Friday when I only have to use 9 hours.
Hope all that makes sense

So my understanding is that if you work full time hours no matter how many days you work it over you should be entitled to the full entitlement of annual leave


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## Slab (May 25, 2018)

Is it weird that it seems fine to me

If you reduce the days worked by 20% it seems to follow that the holiday days are also reduced by 20%

Otherwise folk would have too many holiday days relative to their working week

25 days holiday on 5 day working week means 5 weeks off
for a 4 day working week only 20 days holiday is required for the same time off as only 4 days holiday are required to achieve a week off instead of 5


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## Kellfire (May 25, 2018)

Slab said:



			Is it weird that it seems fine to me

If you reduce the days worked by 20% it seems to follow that the holiday days are also reduced by 20%

Otherwise folk would have too many holiday days relative to their working week

25 days holiday on 5 day working week means 5 weeks off
for a 4 day working week only 20 days holiday is required for the same time off as only 4 days holiday are required to achieve a week off instead of 5
		
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It's the wording that matters - if you working full time hours, you're entitled to the same number of hours. But obviously, for this individual, that will mean less days off.


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## virtuocity (May 25, 2018)

Slab said:



			Is it weird that it seems fine to me

If you reduce the days worked by 20% it seems to follow that the holiday days are also reduced by 20%

Otherwise folk would have too many holiday days relative to their working week

25 days holiday on 5 day working week means 5 weeks off
for a 4 day working week only 20 days holiday is required for the same time off as only 4 days holiday are required to achieve a week off instead of 5
		
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Kellfire said:



			It's the wording that matters - if you working full time hours, you're entitled to the same number of hours. But obviously, for this individual, that will mean less days off.
		
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And therein lies the confusion.  I 'get' that I'm off one day a week and as such in the office only 80% vs my colleagues.

However, I still work the same hours as my colleagues.  I put in what they put in.


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## Slab (May 25, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			It's the wording that matters - if you working full time hours, you're entitled to the same number of hours. But obviously, for this individual, that will mean less days off.
		
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Yeah I guess it depends on whether the OP holiday entitlement is specified in hours, days or weeks

If its days or weeks then it must be reduced in line, if its in hours then it needs to remain the full amount

(i've never had a job where my holiday entitlement was set out as a number of hours)


edit: actually if its weeks it remains as is

Its only if its days that it needs to drop


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## Kellfire (May 25, 2018)

Slab said:



			Yeah I guess it depends on whether the OP holiday entitlement is specified in hours, days or weeks

If its days or weeks then it must be reduced in line, if its in hours then it needs to remain the full amount

(i've never had a job where my holiday entitlement was set out as a number of hours)


edit: actually if its weeks it remains as is

Its only if its days that it needs to drop
		
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My current job is hours and it's actually much easier to keep track of in my mind!


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## virtuocity (May 25, 2018)

Slab said:



			edit: actually if its weeks it remains as is

Its only if its days that it needs to drop
		
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Yep- it's days plus public hols


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## Slab (May 25, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			Yep- it's days plus public hols
		
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Yeah fraid Iâ€™ll need to side with the company on this one then

Understand youâ€™ll feel peeved due to working same hours as a 5 day worker (although there are social and financial benefits to a 4-day week that they wont get) but to get holiday parity the number of days should drop

(I imagine a part timer working 4 hours a day for 5 days a week currently gets the same number of holiday days as you, but they only work half the hours. 
Essentially the number of hours don't come into it since its 'days' holiday with the amount of entitlement being based on a 5 day week)


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## Kellfire (May 25, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			Yep- it's days plus public hols
		
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In that case you aren't having a drop in your leave at all!


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## williamalex1 (May 25, 2018)

Better if you call and ask your local Union Rep, probably Unison.:thup:


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## Captainron (May 25, 2018)

I was always under the impression that it was based on your working hours. Normally a working week is 35 hours (Appreciate it can differ vastly) for an employed person. If you are able to compress these hours into a shorter working week it should not affect your holiday entitlement as you are putting in the same number of hours as someone who chooses not to. I had plenty of staff who worked short weeks and were entitled to full holiday and I did the same for 2 years while it suited our lifestyle.


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## Kellfire (May 25, 2018)

Captainron said:



			I was always under the impression that it was based on your working hours. Normally a working week is 35 hours (Appreciate it can differ vastly) for an employed person. If you are able to compress these hours into a shorter working week it should not affect your holiday entitlement as you are putting in the same number of hours as someone who chooses not to. I had plenty of staff who worked short weeks and were entitled to full holiday and I did the same for 2 years while it suited our lifestyle.
		
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He'll get the same hours off, but this will equate to less full days.


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## Stuey01 (May 25, 2018)

Try thinking of it like this, each one of your days is longer than your colleagues, itâ€™s actually 1.2 days.

So if you have a week off it is 4x1.2 = 5days
If your colleague has a week off it is 5x1 = 5 days.

Itâ€™s the exact same amount of leave, you havenâ€™t lost anything in this scenario, itâ€™s just your days off are now â€œworthâ€ more than your colleagues, so you get fewer overall.  Through the year you get the exact same amount of time off because of the day a week you donâ€™t work.

Itâ€™s easier to think of your leave entitlement in hours, rather than days, since your day is no longer a traditional day in the compressed hours secnario.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2018)

Slab said:



			Is it weird that it seems fine to me

If you reduce the days worked by 20% it seems to follow that the holiday days are also reduced by 20%

Otherwise folk would have too many holiday days relative to their working week

25 days holiday on 5 day working week means 5 weeks off
for a 4 day working week only 20 days holiday is required for the same time off as only 4 days holiday are required to achieve a week off instead of 5
		
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No it doesn't work because he wouldn't be working 4 normal days, he's talking about working longer hours on those days. So if a standard work day is measured as 7 hours, but instead he works say 9 hour days Mon-Wed and 8 hours on Thursdays, then he's still working a 35 hour week and his holiday should be exactly the same.

Basically, if your work has flexible working hours, then your holiday should be measured in hours rather than days as well. If he chooses to work 9 hours instead of a 7 hour day, that doesn't mean his holiday days should then be measured as 9 hours as well - they should still be the standard number of hours, otherwise he's being mugged off.


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## Slab (May 25, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			No it doesn't work because he wouldn't be working 4 normal days, he's talking about working longer hours on those days. So if a standard work day is measured as 7 hours, but instead he works say 9 hour days Mon-Wed and 8 hours on Thursdays, then he's still working a 35 hour week and his holiday should be exactly the same.

Basically, if your work has flexible working hours, then your holiday should be measured in hours rather than days as well. If he chooses to work 9 hours instead of a 7 hour day, that doesn't mean his holiday days should then be measured as 9 hours as well - they should still be the standard number of hours, otherwise he's being mugged off.
		
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I might agree but that's not whats happening here

Later posts explain but he gets days holiday not hours holiday, he cuts his work days he cuts his holiday days in-line


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## Kellfire (May 25, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			Basically, if your work has flexible working hours, then your holiday should be measured in hours rather than days as well. If he chooses to work 9 hours instead of a 7 hour day, that doesn't mean his holiday days should then be measured as 9 hours as well - they should still be the standard number of hours, otherwise he's being mugged off.
		
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If his set pattern is to work nine hours on a Monday, then he needs to book nine hours to take that day off. That's the same as one day.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2018)

Slab said:



			I might agree but that's not whats happening here

Later posts explain but he gets days holiday not hours holiday, he cuts his work days he cuts his holiday days in-line
		
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Yes I can see that's what the company has done. I was just saying how it should work, in my opinion.


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			If his set pattern is to work nine hours on a Monday, then he needs to book nine hours to take that day off. That's the same as one day.
		
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I don't agree. He chooses to work 9 hours over 7 on a working day. But a standard work day remains 7 hours. So a holiday day should be based on a standard working day.


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## virtuocity (May 25, 2018)

Stuey01 said:



			Try thinking of it like this, each one of your days is longer than your colleagues, itâ€™s actually 1.2 days.

So if you have a week off it is 4x1.2 = 5days
If your colleague has a week off it is 5x1 = 5 days.
		
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Yeah, actually that makes sense.

That's to say, if I take a day's holiday I'm really getting 10 hours off (roughly) whereas my colleague taking a day off gets 8 hours.


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## HowlingGale (May 25, 2018)

It seems like you're being diddled on face value however if you boil it down it actually makes sense. Putting it another way. If one of your colleagues, who works 9-5 5 days a week, take's a day of they get 8 hours off. If you take a day off you get 9.6 hours off (or whatever it is). For you to be entitled to the same amount of leave you would need to go into work for the extra 1.6 hours on your 'day off'. So for a day off you get more time away from work than your normal colleagues. Think was probably explained further up but it melted my heid.


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## virtuocity (May 25, 2018)

HowlingGale said:



			It seems like you're being diddled on face value however if you boil it down it actually makes sense.
		
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This perfectly sums up where I'm at with this one.  

*To move the conversation along a bit:*

I can also work flexi, and generally accrue enough to take two flexi days per four-week period off.  If I go compressed, it's highly unlikely I'll accrue flexi, so in essence, in a four week pattern, I will be:

-Losing 2 days flexi
-Working longer 4 days of the week (1.75 hours per day)
-Gaining 4 days per four weeks (one day a week off)
-Under 80% rule, losing 4 days annual leave per year (0.3 days per each four weeks)

Still reckon that compressed is a decent deal, considering the above.


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## Kellfire (May 25, 2018)

Orikoru said:



			I don't agree. He chooses to work 9 hours over 7 on a working day. But a standard work day remains 7 hours. So a holiday day should be based on a standard working day.
		
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So he should get more hours off per year compared to people working the same number of hours as him?

That's ridiculous. You get so many hours leave for each hour you work. Simple.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 25, 2018)

It may well be the reduction on holidays because of the length of the working day 

My working days are 11 hours but I get more days off the normal week but our holidays are worked out in hours - we all get the same amount of hours holiday but because I have to put in 11 whilst others 8 it means I get a few days less holiday but because of the extra normal days off I get it balances itself out 

So you will find you are in the same situation - for you to get a day off you will need to have more holiday hours off for that one day off so overall your actual holiday days will be less but because your normal off days are more you will find you may actually have more time off than them but work the same amount of hours


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## Orikoru (May 25, 2018)

Kellfire said:



			So he should get more hours off per year compared to people working the same number of hours as him?

That's ridiculous. You get so many hours leave for each hour you work. Simple.
		
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What are you talking about? What I said was the same as what you said. He works the same hours (condensed into less days) so he should get the same hours of leave.


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## pauljames87 (May 25, 2018)

Thinking about it , not sure could be right because if you work 4 days a week not 4 only takes 4 days to take a week off so say you get 20 days leave.. thatâ€™s 5 weeks instead of 4 so would that 20% but the 4 days they take to balance it otherwise you would get extra week off


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## oxymoron (May 25, 2018)

Look at this from another angle , if he takes a day off his pay should remain the same as if he worked , if that happens whats the issue ? 
As long as you do not lose out whats the problem ?


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## Blue in Munich (May 25, 2018)

The primary issue here is your employer not putting your annual leave into hours. If you worked a 40 hour week and you are given 200 hours of leave thatâ€™s 5 weeks off, regardless of the number of hours in your working day. 

The secondary issue was some on here making it far more complicated than it needed to be. ðŸ˜‹


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## Val (May 25, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			My place of work has a compressed hours scheme.  I thought about working my weekly hours over 4 days, instead of 5.  However, I then learned that they take 20% off your holiday entitlement.

Is this normal practice?
		
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In terms of actual days worked then this is quite common so for example if you work 5 days a week and get 20 days leave you effectively get 1 week (5 days) for every 3 months worked.

If you work the same hours in 4 days for the same pay as 5 days you will still generate enough days to get 4 days holiday every 3 months ie, 1 weeks holiday.

Put it like this, forget hours, you only work a 4 day working week therefor to take a weeks holiday you only need to take 4 days leave.


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## HowlingGale (May 25, 2018)

Val said:



			In terms of actual days worked then this is quite common so for example if you work 5 days a week and get 20 days leave you effectively get 1 week (5 days) for every 3 months worked.

If you work the same hours in 4 days for the same pay as 5 days you will still generate enough days to get 4 days holiday every 3 months ie, 1 weeks holiday.

Put it like this, forget hours, you only work a 4 day working week therefor to take a weeks holiday you only need to take 4 days leave.
		
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I think that's what everyone was trying to say but making an utter baws of it. &#128514;


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 25, 2018)

virtuocity said:



			My place of work has a compressed hours scheme.  I thought about working my weekly hours over 4 days, instead of 5.  However, I then learned that they take 20% off your holiday entitlement.

Is this normal practice?
		
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As I am looking to drop to 4 days from 5 day (though not compressing 5 days hours into 4) I have had a look at our company policy - and it looks like holiday is pro rata according to days worked rather than hours worked.  As I am thinking of taking Mondays off I checked BH and rather than 8 (England & Wales) I will get 6.  So pro rata my annual leave entitlement drops from 25 to 19 and I get 6 days for bank holidays so back to 25 days - though I am pretty sure that I will have to take any non-Monday BHs out of that 25 days.


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