# Refund when club closes ?



## Robin Hood (Dec 26, 2018)

I am a member at a privately owned golf club. In April I paid my fees and expected to play at a club that offered all the usual facilities.
However, earlier this year the Profesional left and was not replaced and then the owner announced that from 1st January '19 we were going down to 9 holes and then closing on 31st March. 
We were all devastated, and now quite angry.
Does anyone know if we could legitimately claim a refund for part of our fees. If so what percentage would be reasonable ?


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## drdel (Dec 26, 2018)

If owner is a proprietor you may have a chance- say 25% of remaining lost opportunity. But if its 'owned' through a limited company it might be a challenge.

Depends how much cash it is worth but it sounds like a load of hassle for not much of a return.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 27, 2018)

..and if club (or owner?) has gone bust then I fear members would be bottom of list of creditors to be paid.


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## Imurg (Dec 27, 2018)

This is one of the reasons we left Aylesbury Park a while back.
With HS2 slicing the course in half there has, for some years, been a waiting game for the closure notice to come through.
Back then we paid yearly, like everyone else. We didn't want to be in the position of the club closing halfway through the year and the possibility of getting nothing back.
The club is currently charging members on a month by month basis so if closure does happen - 6 weeks notice - then members don't lose out.


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## jim8flog (Dec 27, 2018)

If the club is going because it has gone bust then you are just a non preferred creditor and have to lodge a claim with  the administrator. Preferred creditors being people like anyone who has a charge against the property, inland revenue, customs and excise.

It is has closed simply because the owner has had enough then you have to lodge a claim with him which can be pursued through the courts in not forthcoming.


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## duncan mackie (Dec 27, 2018)

I would suggest that there is a very good legal reason that the owner is continuing to provide golf facilities until the membership period expires....any validity to this could only be tested in the courts but, as a first step, you should approach a legal firm and get an opinion based on the membership contract you entered into and the details of the services he will be providing (as you have outlined above).

That opinion is the only one that is really relevant at this point, but even then it's still an opinion and it will take money to pursue, and that may prove to be an additional cost if the judgement has another opinion (assuming it isn't so clear cut that it doesn't even go to court - which in my opinion it won't be because if it was he would simply leave the 18 holes open and discontinue maintenance which would probably leave you with no recourse and no real golf opportunities)


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## jim8flog (Dec 28, 2018)

Just reread the OP

I concur with Duncan

I missed the fact that you could still play golf there, albeit limited to 9 holes.


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## drdel (Dec 28, 2018)

duncan mackie said:



			I would suggest that there is a very good legal reason that the owner is continuing to provide golf facilities until the membership period expires....any validity to this could only be tested in the courts but, as a first step, you should approach a legal firm and get an opinion based on the membership contract you entered into and the details of the services he will be providing (as you have outlined above).

That opinion is the only one that is really relevant at this point, but even then it's still an opinion and it will take money to pursue, and that may prove to be an additional cost if the judgement has another opinion (assuming it isn't so clear cut that it doesn't even go to court - which in my opinion it won't be because if it was he would simply leave the 18 holes open and discontinue maintenance which would probably leave you with no recourse and no real golf opportunities)
		
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I think the OP would be wasting his money.

If he, the OP, paid for 12 months last April he has 3 months left so he has a good argument for a 25% refund. Any claim for more would be less clear-cut. Let's say his fee was quite high, say Â£2,000 pa, the 25% (Â£500) refund would soon be swallowed if you consult a lawyer: say Â£350/hr, Â£30+ per email etc. etc.

A friendly chat would be cheaper and might work, if not play what you can and move on.


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## duncan mackie (Dec 28, 2018)

drdel said:



			I think the OP would be wasting his money.

If he, the OP, paid for 12 months last April he has 3 months left so he has a good argument for a 25% refund. Any claim for more would be less clear-cut. Let's say his fee was quite high, say Â£2,000 pa, the 25% (Â£500) refund would soon be swallowed if you consult a lawyer: say Â£350/hr, Â£30+ per email etc. etc.

A friendly chat would be cheaper and might work, if not play what you can and move on.
		
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I completely agree that he would be wasting his money, but that's only my personal opinion without sight of the documentation and, as such meaningless.

Your state that he has a good argument for a 25% refund - IMO he has no such case at all (he's still got access to the course over which he can play as many holes as he likes, or was previously entitled to, by repeating the 9s or as otherwise dictated.) 

As to the quiet word approach...anything granted to him would inevitably have to be conceded to every other member. Isn't going to happen.


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## Robin Hood (Dec 28, 2018)

Thank you all for your ideas and advice.
I have spoken to the Seniors Captain, who believes the club is a limited company, and probably struggling to break even.
The owner has allegedly got planning permission to develop the clubhouse into 2 dwellings and further out buildings into houses. The car park is possibly going to be used as caravan storage. I fully appreciate that with dwindling membership the owner has decided to cease trading as a golf club and utilise the assets more profitably.
I have decided to concentrate my efforts into reducing my handicap at a new club, playing with old and new friends.
Thanks again for your input.


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## Sweep (Jan 6, 2019)

If it helps, I had a similar situation at a club I belonged to in the early 2000â€™s. The hotel proprietor decided to close the club, but in a timely way so that everything closed as the next years subs were due (so he was not charging for membership people couldnâ€™t have). Some members were concerned that joining fees had been charged and paid up to a few months before the decision to close had been announced. We decided to take legal advice and as part of a clubs EGU (I think) fees you are (or were) entitled to a barristers opinion. His opinion was that the joining fees were charged to join a club which members had joined. The fact that the club was closed soon afterwards had no bearing on what was charged for and granted. There was no guarantees in the contract about how long the club would be existence.
I have to say I was surprised but in the end the members had a reasonable chat with the owner and came to an amicable settlement.


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## Robin Hood (Jan 6, 2019)

Sweep said:



			If it helps, I had a similar situation at a club I belonged to in the early 2000â€™s. The hotel proprietor decided to close the club, but in a timely way so that everything closed as the next years subs were due (so he was not charging for membership people couldnâ€™t have). Some members were concerned that joining fees had been charged and paid up to a few months before the decision to close had been announced. We decided to take legal advice and as part of a clubs EGU (I think) fees you are (or were) entitled to a barristers opinion. His opinion was that the joining fees were charged to join a club which members had joined. The fact that the club was closed soon afterwards had no bearing on what was charged for and granted. There was no guarantees in the contract about how long the club would be existence.
I have to say I was surprised but in the end the members had a reasonable chat with the owner and came to an amicable settlement.
		
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Your experiences are similar to ours, albeit no joining fees are involved.
The owner here declared their closure on 28/8, and under the trading circumstances I can appreciate the rationale. New members who joined in June were given some form of refund, although I am not sure what. The big question, that will never be answered, is did the owner knowingly take our fees aware that they were going to reduce from 18 to 9 holes from January 1st. Most members have joined other clubs, and enjoying new challenges. Few members have gone back to play, indeed the club no longer has an alcohol licence and the food menu reduced further. 
It's such a pity that this has happened, and left a lot of members feeling bitter and cheated. 
However onwards and upwards as our golfing journey continues in pastures new.


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## Tashyboy (Jan 25, 2019)

Where are you thinking of going to after ? Maywood.


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## Robin Hood (Jan 25, 2019)

already joined Chilwell Manor and thoroughly enjoying it


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