# Is distance embarrassing?



## Nosevi (Nov 14, 2014)

Was actually looking for a launch monitor thread but stumbled across a bunch of threads about driving distances for some reason. I'm new to the forum but on all of those threads it seemed like people were falling over themselves to say how short they were off the tee (ok, slightly overstating it, perhaps to prompt discussion....) whereas just about every other golf forum I've seen, guys lie blatantly about their driving distance. What gives?

I've worked hard over the last year on picking up a few yards off the tee. IMO it's a fundamental requirement for playing golf at a higher level these days. In fact that's not just my opinion, my coach who teaches guys up to and including national and tour level tells me it is. Faced with a 450 yard par 4, what's your plan if you drive the ball 220? Even my home course has a par 4 that long off the whites and a few others close to it, championship courses it's fairly standard to have numerous holes that long these days. Even on a shorter, slightly more reasonable hole, could a short hitter routinely put his 5 iron closer than a long hitter's PW? I'm guessing not. Whether guys like it or not golf has changed and distance IS important. I'd go as far as to say it's vital in order to play the game at a higher level than the monthly medal at a shortish track.

Getting distance is largely about balance and rhythm, anyone driving the ball short (with modern equipment) could, and maybe should, be getting a lot more distance. Anyone who's met me will vouch that it clearly isn't about physique! I honestly and truthfully could not hit the ball 200-210 yards with my driver if you paid me, physically couldn't do it. The laziest swing I could possibly put on it, it would go further. Hitting a drive a long way is about spin, launch angle and ball speed, probably in that order. If you're a short hitter I guarantee it's the first one where you're getting it wrong.

Being long off the tee isn't about willy-waving or macho-man stuff. It's about having a technique that allows you to maximise the distance you get given the physical attributes you have. Accuracy (or loss of it) has nothing to do with it - last time out with my old man I hit all but one fairway and out drove him by about 50 yards every time....... and one of these days I may even consider telling him how 

The point is it's about technique not muscle. I have an indoor launch monitor and I guarantee if someone who is properly short off the tee came and used it I could add 20 yards if not more to their drive with no loss of accuracy. I'm not a pro, I just know how these things work. In fact, that's an open offer if any member wants to take me up on it - I live near Lincoln.

So, driving distance - only not important if you happen to be a short hitter or actually not important in the modern game of golf?


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 14, 2014)

This should be good, popcorn anyone?


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## patricks148 (Nov 14, 2014)

one of the best player i know (not the lowest handicap) is off 2 or 3 is almost 70 and plays at a course thats 6800 off the whites. 220 is a good drive for him, most holes are drive and wood/Hybrid

He complains about it all the time, but what a short game.


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## NWJocko (Nov 14, 2014)

This could get interesting......

I'll try to answer before it gets silly!

Distance gives an advantage IMO, and not necessarily just with the driver which is where these discussions get lost imo. I'm not massively long, particularly not in forum terms... 

I play at a pretty long, tight course but being able to hit it reasonably far means a lot of par 4s I'm able to hit an iron off the tee when others need to hit driver or 3w, even par 5s hitting a long iron off the tee.

Problem you have where I play, particularly in the summer, is if you miss the fairways you can't score well regardless of how far its gone.


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## scottbrown (Nov 14, 2014)

Length is important for people looking to turn pro or play at high levels. 
For most club level golfers accuracy is more important and for some neither is important as the golf is as much about the social as it is about the score


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## chrisd (Nov 14, 2014)

I'd be happy to gain 20yards!


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 14, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Was actually looking for a launch monitor thread but stumbled across a bunch of threads about driving distances for some reason. I'm new to the forum but on all of those threads it seemed like people were falling over themselves to say how short they were off the tee (ok, slightly overstating it, perhaps to prompt discussion....) whereas just about every other golf forum I've seen, guys lie blatantly about their driving distance. What gives?

I've worked hard over the last year on picking up a few yards off the tee. IMO it's a fundamental requirement for playing golf at a higher level these days. In fact that's not just my opinion, my coach who teaches guys up to and including national and tour level tells me it is. Faced with a 450 yard par 4, what's your plan if you drive the ball 220? Even my home course has a par 4 that long off the whites and a few others close to it, championship courses it's fairly standard to have numerous holes that long these days. Even on a shorter, slightly more reasonable hole, could a short hitter routinely put his 5 iron closer than a long hitter's PW? I'm guessing not. Whether guys like it or not golf has changed and distance IS important. I'd go as far as to say it's vital in order to play the game at a higher level than the monthly medal at a shortish track.

Getting distance is largely about balance and rhythm, anyone driving the ball short (with modern equipment) could, and maybe should, be getting a lot more distance. Anyone who's met me will vouch that it clearly isn't about physique! I honestly and truthfully could not hit the ball 200-210 yards with my driver if you paid me, physically couldn't do it. The laziest swing I could possibly put on it, it would go further. Hitting a drive a long way is about spin, launch angle and ball speed, probably in that order. If you're a short hitter I guarantee it's the first one where you're getting it wrong.

Being long off the tee isn't about willy-waving or macho-man stuff. It's about having a technique that allows you to maximise the distance you get given the physical attributes you have. Accuracy (or loss of it) has nothing to do with it - last time out with my old man I hit all but one fairway and out drove him by about 50 yards every time....... and one of these days I may even consider telling him how 

The point is it's about technique not muscle. I have an indoor launch monitor and I guarantee if someone who is properly short off the tee came and used it I could add 20 yards if not more to their drive with no loss of accuracy. I'm not a pro, I just know how these things work. In fact, that's an open offer if any member wants to take me up on it - I live near Lincoln.

So, driving distance - only not important if you happen to be a short hitter or actually not important in the modern game of golf?
		
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Fine for single figure players like you with a modicum of ability. I am one of these short hitters averaging around the 235 mark. Am I embarrassed. Not on your nelly. I have 12 shots to play with and know my game and my ability. Why would I want to try and eek a drive out further and get my already wonky technique and timing out of kilter even more. I came runner up to Bladeplayer in the GM Centenary final and didn't take on any par 4 over 400 yards and left a 50-70 yard shot. I think from memory I scored at least two points on each one of these. 

I have lessons and my technique is improving but I'm not the fittest and will still only get to a certain level (ideally 9) but that's more reliant on my short game bunker play and putting improving rather than bashing it further. Many on here won't have the time, money or inclination to invest in lessons and won't see any change to their driving distances but are happy with where they game is and it's about enjoying a round with friends and family.

In essence I think you're a long way off the mark here and as fishing trips go, better bait next time. We've had better


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2014)

People don't tend to lie about their driving distances on this forum due to the fact me have many forum meets where 300yard carries can be easily verified.  


Ive yet to meet anyone who is long, accurate and completely crap.  I met a few with suspect short games but they are still easily single figures men without much of an all round game.


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## GreiginFife (Nov 14, 2014)

While I agree that in some respects distance can help it is not the be all and end all at club golfer/amateur level. Many club courses habe not changed in over half a century or more and so hitting 30-40 yards longer than 20/30 years ago doesn't make a huge difference. 
A good drive for me tops out at about 250 which I personally don't think is big by forum or most people's standards but at most courses I have played I rately get left with an unreachable par 4 but even then if it was 480 I can hit 250 and then play two to get close, maybe walk off with a par still. 

Distance in the pro game is far more important with 550 and 600 yard holes getting sillier and sillier.

My mate regularly booms it 270 and 280 but misses greens from 120 and 130 yards and walks off with some stupid scores because of it.


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2014)

Depends what way the wind is blowing.   into the wind, a 450yard hole is no push over for us mere mortals.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 14, 2014)

I can hit it a decent distance - 250 plus on a regular basis and normally pretty straight - hit the odd big 300 yard one but thats in the summer if conditions are good

But im always of the belief that you can sacrifice a few yards if it means being in the fairway 

Distance is good of the tee - it can help you score well and certainly hitting it longer can bring down the HC but only if its backed up with good approach play and short game

Seen a few people who are just focused on smashing it 300yards down the fairway - the fact they prob end up with a double or worse doesnt bother them because they have smashed it miles ! 

If a double figure HC is hitting it out to 300 yards then there must be a very big issue with their game somewhere


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## MC72 (Nov 14, 2014)

Visit the majority of clubs in the uk and you'll find they the better (cat1) and best players at the club are there not because of their driving distance. They'll be at their level due to accuracy and consistency. They score well as they make the game easy fir themselves by keeping the ball on the fairway and allowing themselves straightforward approach shots. When their game is slightly off the boil they'll still score as their short game will be good.

Distance matters even less at the next level down (hc 6-10), you'll find lots of these guys are at that level again because they keep the ball in play more often. 





Nosevi said:



			Was actually looking for a launch monitor thread but stumbled across a bunch of threads about driving distances for some reason. I'm new to the forum but on all of those threads it seemed like people were falling over themselves to say how short they were off the tee (ok, slightly overstating it, perhaps to prompt discussion....) whereas just about every other golf forum I've seen, guys lie blatantly about their driving distance. What gives?

I've worked hard over the last year on picking up a few yards off the tee. IMO it's a fundamental requirement for playing golf at a higher level these days. In fact that's not just my opinion, my coach who teaches guys up to and including national and tour level tells me it is. Faced with a 450 yard par 4, what's your plan if you drive the ball 220? Even my home course has a par 4 that long off the whites and a few others close to it, championship courses it's fairly standard to have numerous holes that long these days. Even on a shorter, slightly more reasonable hole, could a short hitter routinely put his 5 iron closer than a long hitter's PW? I'm guessing not. Whether guys like it or not golf has changed and distance IS important. I'd go as far as to say it's vital in order to play the game at a higher level than the monthly medal at a shortish track.

Getting distance is largely about balance and rhythm, anyone driving the ball short (with modern equipment) could, and maybe should, be getting a lot more distance. Anyone who's met me will vouch that it clearly isn't about physique! I honestly and truthfully could not hit the ball 200-210 yards with my driver if you paid me, physically couldn't do it. The laziest swing I could possibly put on it, it would go further. Hitting a drive a long way is about spin, launch angle and ball speed, probably in that order. If you're a short hitter I guarantee it's the first one where you're getting it wrong.

Being long off the tee isn't about willy-waving or macho-man stuff. It's about having a technique that allows you to maximise the distance you get given the physical attributes you have. Accuracy (or loss of it) has nothing to do with it - last time out with my old man I hit all but one fairway and out drove him by about 50 yards every time....... and one of these days I may even consider telling him how 

The point is it's about technique not muscle. I have an indoor launch monitor and I guarantee if someone who is properly short off the tee came and used it I could add 20 yards if not more to their drive with no loss of accuracy. I'm not a pro, I just know how these things work. In fact, that's an open offer if any member wants to take me up on it - I live near Lincoln.

So, driving distance - only not important if you happen to be a short hitter or actually not important in the modern game of golf?
		
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## chrisd (Nov 14, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If a double figure HC is hitting it out to 300 yards then there must be a very big issue with their game somewhere
		
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.............. I haven't worked out what it is yet!


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## shewy (Nov 14, 2014)

I agree with the op, never seen a low hcp player only hit it 220 off the tee, usually around 250 ish. 
If I lived closer!


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## jpxpro (Nov 14, 2014)

i can on occasion hit decent drives but find more often than not I'm all over the place, i would gladly settle for a consistent but shorter drive, as long as you can get a look at the par 4s with 2 shots its not the end of the world, i quite often go 3 wood then mid/low iron for the 350-400 yard par 4s


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## delc (Nov 14, 2014)

Generally, if I try to hit the ball harder it goes less far!  Put a ball into a fairway bunker that I normally carry easily for this reason during my last round, even though it was downwind. The hole is a short par-4 and I was trying to reach the green in one!


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			I met a few with suspect short games but they are still easily single figures men without much of an all round game.
		
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Name names! Go on, I dares yer.


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## Dave B (Nov 14, 2014)

It's easy when you take golf up at an early age, have the flexibility, fitness and time to put it all together.

I'm a short hitter who didn't come into the game until I hit my 40's. However it doesn't stop me playing good golf or winning competitions because I have a great friend called the handicap secretary . 

Because I only hit the ball a short way he's given me a great weapon called an extra shot 

This little beauty means that on a par 4, 450yd hole I can take a 5 wood, hit it down the middle twice which then leaves me with a wedge inside 100 yds to the green. If it's a low index hole I might even get two shots.

The low handicap player can smoke his drive 260 yds and will still have 190 to the green assuming his drive has gone straight.

At club level, the best weapon you can have isn't distance, it's knowing your course and how to use your handicap. 

It's great watching a low handicap player smoking every drive however when you have a handful of shots in your pocket it's a great leveller.


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Name names! Go on, I dares yer.

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Your man jay at our place.  Bombs it, no course strategy and ropey enough short game.  

If you could hit the ball like him you would have a couple of tour wins under your belt. :rofl:


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Your man jay at our place.  Bombs it, no course strategy and ropey enough short game.  

If you could hit the ball like him you would have a couple of tour wins under your belt. :rofl:
		
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Booooo - you said a few......... 

Yes I would, sadly I haven't, and I have more above the belt than below it.


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2014)

Fella at eccelston park.  Dandering round half cut drinking cider. Hit it a country mile but with a very ropey short game.  Decent enough player due to the length but that was his biggest strength. 

Him and his mate were standing in the middle of the par 5 waiting for the green to clear. I was thinking to myself, whos this Billy big balls behind me.  He nails it.

I ended up playing and last 6 or 7 holes with him and his mate. He didn't take the game seriously but could easily play to singles with his freak long hitting.


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## MadAdey (Nov 14, 2014)

As Gary said, this forum is somewhere most people have met in person so if you lie your going to get found out. I have always had good distance, but my short game was always pretty poor. But over the last couple of years it has improved dramatically. I've played with both sides of the spectrum, long hitters, poor short game and short hitters excellent short game and accuracy. Both play off low handicaps. 

I've played with + handicappers that I smash the ball past! but they still get round in less shots than me. Donald gives away 30 yards to a lot of fellow tour pros, but still manages to compete. Golf is all about an all round game, you can only get so low with parts missing, but it will soon catch up with you if you have major weaknesses.

Not many people have ever had a perfect game, Tiger is one of the few as in his prime he was untouchable for several years. Why, because it didn't matter if his long game was off, his short game could make up for it.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Fella at eccelston park.  Dandering round half cut drinking cider. Hit it a country mile but with a very ropey short game.  Decent enough player due to the length but that was his biggest strength. 

Him and his mate were standing in the middle of the par 5 waiting for the green to clear. I was thinking to myself, whos this Billy big balls behind me.  He nails it.

I ended up playing and last 6 or 7 holes with him and his mate. He didn't take the game seriously but could easily play to singles with his freak long hitting.
		
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Did he hit any goats?


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2014)

It's not how far, it's how close that matters.


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Did he hit any goats?

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Is that a pop at ep?    more likely to hit a pylon tbh.   I did.


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## Liverbirdie (Nov 14, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Is that a pop at ep?    more likely to hit a pylon tbh.   I did. 

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A pyl of, more like.

No not my favourite track.


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## tsped83 (Nov 14, 2014)

Distance is everything. This is the GM Forum right? My average drive is 350 easily. They call me hot-stepper.


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## garyinderry (Nov 14, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			A pyl of, more like.

No not my favourite track.
		
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Minus the pylons its a decent wee test.   wouldn't travel a long way to play it.  


I might try and make 1o'clock or so tomorrow. I'll bell you and Ian to find out where you are.


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## Siren (Nov 14, 2014)

I havent read the whole thread but I play with a  guy who very regularly drives the ball 300+ but cant chip and put so he is off 9. On the other hand I play with a guy who drives it around 200 yards and he is off 9. Funnily enough they played each other this year in our matchplay comp.

Who do you think won?

Drive for show putt for dough.


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## CMAC (Nov 14, 2014)

shewy said:



			I agree with the op, never seen a low hcp player only hit it 220 off the tee, usually around 250 ish. 
If I lived closer!
		
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I'm 220 according to trackman and my 99mph low launching swing. I'm 285 in my head but trackman doesnt lie, does it?


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## Dave B (Nov 14, 2014)

Who do you think won?

 Drive for show putt for dough.
		
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I'd put my money on the short hitter. I was joined half way around the course one day when playing on my own by a 75 yr old who drove consistently 200-210 max straight down the middle. He pared most holes with the very occasional bogey.

His handicap was 14 however he had a very good round and ended up 7 over. I don't think I've seen a better display of bump and run and putting and it was a pleasure to have him join me.


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## Nosevi (Nov 14, 2014)

hats off to the chap that said it was a fishing trip - maybe I overstated the case a tad but that was to prompt discussion.

Here's a fact though - long hitting doesn't hurt you. A lack of accuracy might but long hitting doesn't. 

There are several ball flight models out there but all are pretty similar these days. Taking this one: http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/ 
and plug in a launch speed of say 130mph (pretty low in truth), trajectory of 14 degrees and spin of about 4000rpm which is not an unusual number to see on a short driver. It'll give you a drive of about 220 or just under yards. Now leave the ball speed and trajectory the same but drop the spin to 2000rpm - there's your 20 yards. Most short hitters would gain that by slightly changing their technique (being more centred, maintaining spine tilt etc) yet not hitting the ball any harder.

Knowing what you know about golf, if you hit the ball with the same force but with less overall spin, will it hold its line more or go off line more, especially into wind?

Using the tech that's now available you can do things like getting more distance with no more effort while hitting the ball in such a way that it holds its line better. You just need to know how to use it.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 14, 2014)

If you can drive a nice fairway at around 230 yards and hit a 5 wood a steady 200 yards then you will be OK for most par 4s and within a 100 yards of most par 5s.   If your mid to short game is pretty OK then you should be capable of playing to a single figure handicap.   If you cant then get consistent and learn to chip and putt.


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## MadAdey (Nov 15, 2014)

SocketRocket said:



			If you can drive a nice fairway at around 230 yards and hit a 5 wood a steady 200 yards then you will be OK for most par 4s and within a 100 yards of most par 5s.   If your mid to short game is pretty OK then you should be capable of playing to a single figure handicap.   If you cant then get consistent and learn to chip and putt.
		
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This is the thing, how many par 4s at most private clubs are over 440 yards. So unless you want to be scratch then you do not require to be able to hit every par 4 in regulation.


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## Smiffy (Nov 15, 2014)

If you want a lesson in course management, go and play with the Seniors at your club.
Most (not all) of them play around mid teens handicap or higher. Most (not all) of them have been down to single figures during their golfing lifetime.
They knock it 190 down the middle, knock it another 150 with their second shots and invariably save par (or bogie at worst) by chipping close and single/two putting. Very rarely do they "blob" a hole.
Even on par 3's where they might have to hit a hybrid to your 6 or 7 iron, they are usually shotting, put their tee shot around the green, and again, chip and putt for 3 points.
It's not until you walk off the 18th and tally their score up that you now realise you have been turned over.
They have lost their distance, but their short games are to die for. And the extra shots they've accrued over the years are much more useful to them than an extra 30 yards off the tee.


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## Nosevi (Nov 15, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			If you want a lesson in course management, go and play with the Seniors at your club.

They have lost their distance, but their short games are to die for. And the extra shots they've accrued over the years are much more useful to them than an extra 30 yards off the tee.
		
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I'm sure I would learn a lesson or 2 from them (in fact I play with them regularly) but doubt it'd be about course management - I know when I *should* play it smart, whether I do or not is another question.

Ok, just a friendly debate, deliberately a tad 'contentious' but why does the opposing view to mine always come down to an argument that it has to be length OR a decent short game. The 2 are not in any way linked. The best combo (by far) is a lot of length AND a decent short game. I'm a member at 2 courses - one massively short, one long(ish) especially off the whites. Length allows me to reach long holes on the longer course and gives me and easy ride on the shorter course. I don't see length as a disadvantage in the game of golf ever. The idea that if you're a bigger hitter you lack course management skills or have no short game doesn't really stack up. When a longer hitter is faced with a tight 330 yard par 4 he may elect to play a 6 iron off the tee where a shorter guy may have to play a driver or 3 wood to be in the same place. Do you think the longer hitter is less likely to hit the fairway with a 6 iron than a shorter hitter is to hit it with the driver? If so, what brings you to that conclusion?

Regarding better players being short or not, it just seems to me that the higher you go, the more distance matters. Someone mentioned Luke Donald as a short hitter earlier. Luke's a smallish guy - 5'9'' and slightly built - but he's far from short off the tee. Last year he averaged about 265 yards carry off the tee with a driver in hand..... that's not total distance, that's carry. Jim Furyk, another 'short hitter' that people sometimes quote? 261 yards carry on average with a driver. These guys have had to add yardage to their game in order to keep up.

Anyway, like I said, just a friendly debate but no one is likely to convince me that distance off the tee in golf is not important. It's an asset, if used wisely a huge asset.

Length off the tee vs sharp short game or course management - not even slightly connected IMO. It's possible to have both


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## Smiffy (Nov 15, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Length off the tee vs sharp short game or course management - not even slightly connected IMO. It's possible to have both 

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Did you ever see Nick Faldo in the "flesh?"
Massive guy. Couldn't believe how big he was until I saw him at East Sussex National in the early 90's.
He wasn't a big hitter. By today's standards he would be laughed at.
But he had great course management and a half decent short game.
All I'm saying is that length isn't the be all and end all.
If somebody is bombing out there 300 yards, and has a top notch short game, why aren't they on tour????
Have you played with our very own "Leftie"...Roger Oliver????
He'll be the first to admit that he is a short hitter. A good drive for him is 200 yards or so. But most times I play in a group with him, he is in or around the money. Steady Eddie. 9 times out of 10 he'll turn you over for the pot. Because he has a short game that lower handicappers would be proud of. Chips are usually (usually) stone dead and he rattles putts in from all over the place.


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## Chisteve (Nov 15, 2014)

Interesting thread this 

I have only just started playing above 4 years ago in my 50's, like to think fairly fit play tennis and racket ball and occasional squash + hiking and carry my bag 

 I have been working with my driver and managed about 250 yards in middle of fairway in the summer anyway always fought the dreded slice 

I had lessons at the very start, was instructed on the short game much more than anything else. 

I would much prefer accuracy off the tee than distance to the rough stuff 

But it's great to smash a greet drive sometimes


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## Nosevi (Nov 15, 2014)

MadAdey said:



			This is the thing, how many par 4s at most private clubs are over 440 yards. So unless you want to be scratch then you do not require to be able to hit every par 4 in regulation.
		
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But flipping that on its head isn't that a bit like saying distance isn't even slightly important because you can always have a higher handicap?

I think the only thing 'wrong' with distance is that long hitters can be tempted to use it when they really shouldn't where a shorter hitter doesn't have to make that decision. Distance in and of itself is never the issue.

I get lessons from a guy called Neil Harvey at Woodhall (very good coach, I would recommend him) and he set it out quite simply. Courses are set out to 'catch' the mid - longish hitter - fairway bunkers etc are invariably placed in a position where they'll catch a medium hitter but not a short hitter. The medium hitter *could* choose to lay up and be in the same spot as the shorter hitter - whether they do or not is another matter. But if they do they're going into the green with less club than the short guy, they have extra spin and therefore extra control. 

For the long hitter the fairway bunker on a standard track is no longer an issue, he's checked it's yardage, he's going to fly it anyway, no need to lay up. He's now gained far more off the tee in relation to the medium guy, no layup and no risk, it's a straightforward question of getting it on the short stuff. When he does he's pulling his wedge. If he wants to though he can lay up too and then he's just in the same position as the shorter hitter only standing there with more loft in his hand. Can't see that ever being a disadvantage.


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## MashieNiblick (Nov 15, 2014)

Interesting thread on a well worn subject. Here's my story.

Always been a fairly short but reasonably accurate driver. My "good" drive drive used to be around 210-20 with a bit of fade. However, we have 3 par 4's over 450 and another at 438, none of which I could reach in 2 and another 3 at 399-410 which I was having to hit fairways and hybrids into. If the course was playing long I struggled.

At the Kings of Distance Day the trackman analysis showed me only just getting over 200 with a very negative a-o-a and very high spin and a bit of fade. They weren't my best efforts but tried teeing the ball a bit more forward (as recommended by Joe Miller) and tried a 9 degree X hot 2 (my driver was 10.5) and added 20 yards. Hmmm I thought.

Booked myself a lesson and as well as the ball position the pro tweaked my grip a tad stronger and got me to swing more freely and I was losing the fade and getting 20 yards extra with my old driver. Got myself a 9 degree driver and added another 10 yards to that. 

OK so still short but getting 230 on a regular basis with the odd one a bit further. Now I could reach at least a couple of those 4 long 4's and hit shorter clubs to the shorter ones. Shot my best 2 scores in comps for nearly 20 years back to back to win one and come second in the other, got chopped 3 shots (to my lowest ever h/cap after 40 years of golf) and won the club OOM.

I can only speak for myself but those extra 20-30 yards made a huge difference to my game.  On a shorter course or one with a different layout it may not have done or if I had a cracking short game it might have been less important but I can't really argue with the results.


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## User20205 (Nov 15, 2014)

No hitting the ball further is never a disadvantage if it's coupled with a bit of control. I'd rather hit a 9 iron in than a 5.


But if we are talking absolutes I'd rather be accurate than long. Especially on a typical members course which is usually under 6500.

You can score well round most courses we would play knocking it 220 off the tee with a half decent short game. You won't score well knocking it 300 yards into the woods.


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## Nosevi (Nov 15, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Did you ever see Nick Faldo in the "flesh?"
Massive guy. Couldn't believe how big he was until I saw him at East Sussex National in the early 90's.
He wasn't a big hitter. By today's standards he would be laughed at.
But he had great course management and a half decent short game.
All I'm saying is that length isn't the be all and end all.
If somebody is bombing out there 300 yards, and has a top notch short game, why aren't they on tour????
Have you played with our very own "Leftie"...Roger Oliver????
He'll be the first to admit that he is a short hitter. A good drive for him is 200 yards or so. But most times I play in a group with him, he is in or around the money. Steady Eddie. 9 times out of 10 he'll turn you over for the pot. Because he has a short game that lower handicappers would be proud of. Chips are usually (usually) stone dead and he rattles putts in from all over the place.
		
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I know Smiffy, I guess I'm just spinning the old 'drive for show putt for dough' debate on its head. Distance isn't the be all and end all........... but it's not a bad thing to have. Some would make you believe it is but as long as you know how to manage your way around a course having it in the back pocket to pull out when required is only ever going to be an asset. 

I take your point about short hitters who have a sharp short game, they can score well. I was chatting to a bloke at my course the other day, well he was giving me a 'lesson' on fairway bunkers (not my strong suit yet) and we were talking drivers as we had both recently got G30s and were playing with the loft. He hits it a country mile off the tee and has a very strong short game. I guess that's why he plays off Plus 3


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## chrisd (Nov 15, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Have you played with our very own "Leftie"...Roger Oliver????
He'll be the first to admit that he is a short hitter. A good drive for him is 200 yards or so. But most times I play in a group with him, he is in or around the money. Steady Eddie. 9 times out of 10 he'll turn you over for the pot. Because he has a short game that lower handicappers would be proud of. Chips are usually (usually) stone dead and he rattles putts in from all over the place.
		
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Annoying little so and so isn't he !


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## Nosevi (Nov 15, 2014)

therod said:



			No hitting the ball further is never a disadvantage if it's couped with a bit of control. I'd rather hit a 9 iron in than a 5.


But if we are talking absolutes I'd rather be accurate than long. Especially on a typical members course which is usually under 6500.
		
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Isn't it only a question of 'either/or' if you lack the discipline to choose if you happen to be a long hitter? Off the tee which would you hit more fairways with - a driver or a iron / hybrid?


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## Smiffy (Nov 15, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Isn't it only a question of 'either/or' if you lack the discipline to choose if you happen to be a long hitter? Off the tee which would you hit more fairways with - a driver or a iron / hybrid?
		
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Got to be honest, whenever I take either an iron or a fairway wood "for safety" I invariably end up having to chip out sideways from some crap or another. Personally I'd rather give the driver a bash and take my chances


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## Hobbit (Nov 15, 2014)

Once upon a time, 20 yrs or so ago, if there was a longest drive prize in a comp I'd be there or there abouts. These days I might get something within 20-30yds of those big hitting youngsters - 2 to 3 irons more into the green. 

Handicap is still where it was 20-30 yrs ago because the ability to chip and putt.


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## Nosevi (Nov 15, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Got to be honest, whenever I take either an iron or a fairway wood "for safety" I invariably end up having to chip out sideways from some crap or another. Personally I'd rather give the driver a bash and take my chances
		
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Lol, isn't that always the way 

I guess what I'm getting at is Mashie's story - distance isn't all about brute force, a lot of it is about technique too. You will not suddenly lose your accuracy because you spin the ball less, in fact, particularly into wind it'll help a great deal. I've never seen a really short hitter who gets properly low spin with a driver and I've never seen a very long one who spins it a lot - it's simply not possible to do. You get length by having a neutral ball flight and you get that with low spin. You also get more roll so it's a bit of a win/win.

I just sometimes think shorter hitters would benefit from looking at the numbers in a similar way to longer hitters - they'd invariably pick up yards and it wouldn't hurt their game one jot.


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## ScienceBoy (Nov 15, 2014)

NOT knowing your distances is embarrassing. Like when you see someone attempt a 9 iron when an easy 7 would be safe.

And no, driving 220 with good technique and down the middle is pretty good.


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## hovis (Nov 15, 2014)

It depends on the course.  if you can' hit a long ball on courses i play off the whites such as the list below then your going to struggle even with the best of short games.  i have yet to see a visitor hit his handicap on the pga (when paired in my group)  
saying that, i recently played lutterworth cg and left my driver in the car as the course is so short.   One person out of 31 played to handicap 

The Warwickshire 
Pga
Brabazon 
Forest of arden:rofl:


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## DaveyG (Nov 15, 2014)

I think with how much emphasis there is on here with people thinking anyone who drives over 250yards is a liar people play it down... I don't even bother participating with the how far do you hit anymore because some on here think its impossible for a handicap golfer to hit the ball 280 yards... I know from playing with some that is easily achievable and it wouldn't shock me in good conditions to see them go a good distance further.

I play with lads in their late 20's and 30's who look after themselves... I don't have much experience playing with people in their 50's/60's but when I do on average they hit the ball a lot shorter... I just think its one of those things!

Good thread OP :thup:


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## MadAdey (Nov 15, 2014)

I am going to tackle each bit of what you said with my opinion on it........



Nosevi said:



			I don't see length as a disadvantage in the game of golf ever. The idea that if you're a bigger hitter you lack course management skills or have no short game doesn't really stack up. When a longer hitter is faced with a tight 330 yard par 4 he may elect to play a 6 iron off the tee where a shorter guy may have to play a driver or 3 wood to be in the same place. Do you think the longer hitter is less likely to hit the fairway with a 6 iron than a shorter hitter is to hit it with the driver? If so, what brings you to that conclusion?
		
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Distance is never a disadvantage, as long as it is controlled distance as myself like many have seen people who can give it a rip but do not have much idea of where it is going. Take two 5 handicappers, one a big hitter and one a short hitter. I've not seen may low handicappers that just swing the club and hope it hits the fairway. The hypothetical hole you speak of the short hitter will just stick a driver/3w on the fairway like the big hitter will. 



Nosevi said:



			Regarding better players being short or not, it just seems to me that the higher you go, the more distance matters. Someone mentioned Luke Donald as a short hitter earlier. Luke's a smallish guy - 5'9'' and slightly built - but he's far from short off the tee. Last year he averaged about 265 yards carry off the tee with a driver in hand..... that's not total distance, that's carry. Jim Furyk, another 'short hitter' that people sometimes quote? 261 yards carry on average with a driver. These guys have had to add yardage to their game in order to keep up.
		
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But in comparison to his fellow pros he is a short hitter, with a lot of them having carries over 290 yards. But he makes up for it by being accurate and having a great short game.



Nosevi said:



			Length off the tee vs sharp short game or course management - not even slightly connected IMO. It's possible to have both 

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It is possible to have great distance, a good short game and good course management......isn't that called a tour pro?


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## Waitforme (Nov 15, 2014)

I'm a short hitter, there is a par 4 at the course I played for years with a burn requiring a 205 carry off the tee, I couldn't carry the burn unless there was a following gale.
Still managed to play off 6 but I'd reckon if I could have knocked the ball to 260 off the tee I'd have halved my HC.
I'd have been hitting short irons into greens instead of hybrids. Getting up and down was what got me my HC, with longer drives instead of putting for pars I would have been putting for birdie a lot more.


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## Toad (Nov 15, 2014)

I agree with the Op, as both of my courses are over 6600y and one over 7000y from the back tee's that length really does matter. No good hitting it 200y off the tee to follow it up with a 170y 3w approach as you will still have 120 to go on some of our holes, we have 6 par 4's over 430y the longest one at 489y. If you can't hit far then you will struggle to get anywhere near them in regulation and unless you have a killer short game you won't be off single figures for very long.
I'm not a short hitter but I do struggle to reach some of them in regulation if its into the wind.

In fact a vast majority of our members won't play the longer course as they can't reach any of the par 4's in two, they will only do so if it is a yellow tee comp.


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## Smiffy (Nov 15, 2014)

I'm not a big hitter by any stretch of the imagination, and get cheesed off with playing massively long par 4's where you have to hit your (my) Sunday best drive and I'm still knocking a wood in to get home. There's no fun in that.
I'd much rather play a short par 4, where the premium is on accuracy. Get it right and you are rewarded with a mid iron in.
You'd be surprised how many people blob high indexed short par 4's


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## davidg2010uk (Nov 15, 2014)

Toad;1179379 we have 6 par 4's over 430y the longest one at 489y. [/QUOTE said:
			
		


			Tough course!  Sounds like distance is a must here.
		
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## evahakool (Nov 15, 2014)

Y



HomerJSimpson said:



			Fine for single figure players like you with a modicum of ability. I am one of these short hitters averaging around the 235 mark.
		
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If you're hitting out averaging 235 you shouldn't consider yourself a short hitter.

Remember most on this forum are very keen golfers and some can certainly hit it a long way, so for most club golfers I would say 235 drives is far from short.


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## Ethan (Nov 15, 2014)

Golf psychology basically boils down to: play the shot you know you can play, forget about it and move on to the next one. 

If you only hit the ball 200 yards off the tee, then play holes of over 400 yards as par 5s. The trick is how to do so most effectively. If you hit a 200 yard drive, and have 230 yards left, do you try to bust a 3 wood and get within 30 or 40 yards, or do you hit a 6 iron and leave a solid wedge? 

The 6 iron/wedge is a rather conservative play, but I suspect you will end up with a few bogeys, the odd par and not too many blobs compared to the people who are slashing at a 3 wood.


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## duncan mackie (Nov 15, 2014)

I'm super long as a double digit senior golfer...Most young cat 1 golfers make me look like a short hitter.

The end


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## macca64 (Nov 15, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			I'm sure I would learn a lesson or 2 from them (in fact I play with them regularly) but doubt it'd be about course management - I know when I *should* play it smart, whether I do or not is another question.

Ok, just a friendly debate, deliberately a tad 'contentious' but why does the opposing view to mine always come down to an argument that it has to be length OR a decent short game. The 2 are not in any way linked. The best combo (by far) is a lot of length AND a decent short game. I'm a member at 2 courses - one massively short, one long(ish) especially off the whites. Length allows me to reach long holes on the longer course and gives me and easy ride on the shorter course. I don't see length as a disadvantage in the game of golf ever. The idea that if you're a bigger hitter you lack course management skills or have no short game doesn't really stack up. When a longer hitter is faced with a tight 330 yard par 4 he may elect to play a 6 iron off the tee where a shorter guy may have to play a driver or 3 wood to be in the same place. Do you think the longer hitter is less likely to hit the fairway with a 6 iron than a shorter hitter is to hit it with the driver? If so, what brings you to that conclusion?

Regarding better players being short or not, it just seems to me that the higher you go, the more distance matters. Someone mentioned Luke Donald as a short hitter earlier. Luke's a smallish guy - 5'9'' and slightly built - but he's far from short off the tee. Last year he averaged about 265 yards carry off the tee with a driver in hand..... that's not total distance, that's carry. Jim Furyk, another 'short hitter' that people sometimes quote? 261 yards carry on average with a driver. These guys have had to add yardage to their game in order to keep up.

Anyway, like I said, just a friendly debate but no one is likely to convince me that distance off the tee in golf is not important. It's an asset, if used wisely a huge asset.

Length off the tee vs sharp short game or course management - not even slightly connected IMO. It's possible to have both 

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I'm  with you, im pretty straight but pretty short, would love to get extra yards on all my clubs, about 220 with the driver and 160 with 5 iron, just not good enough imo


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## NimbleNeil (Nov 16, 2014)

Recently started playing and can only max about 190, I've heard all about spin and launch angle but know nothing of how to actually get them right. I'm 16, 56kg so there's not a lot of muscle to work with but like you said if there's any techniques that you can share that a beginner could easily pick up over the internet i'd be more than willing to hear it


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## Smiffy (Nov 16, 2014)

NimbleNeil said:



			Recently started playing and can only max about 190, I've heard all about spin and launch angle but know nothing of how to actually get them right. I'm 16, 56kg so there's not a lot of muscle to work with but like you said if there's any techniques that you can share that a beginner could easily pick up over the internet i'd be more than willing to hear it
		
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Watch some videos of ladies comps.
Most of them are tiny, and won't weigh more than 56kg themselves, but they put it out there.
You will soon see it's not about muscle and strength, more about rhythm and timing.


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## Smiffy (Nov 16, 2014)

Ethan said:



			If you only hit the ball 200 yards off the tee, then play holes of over 400 yards as par 5s. The trick is how to do so most effectively. If you hit a 200 yard drive, and have 230 yards left, do you try to bust a 3 wood and get within 30 or 40 yards, or do you hit a 6 iron and leave a solid wedge? 
The 6 iron/wedge is a rather conservative play, but I suspect you will end up with a few bogeys, the odd par and not too many blobs compared to the people who are slashing at a 3 wood.
		
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This ^^^^^^

I wish I had a Â£ for every time I've thought "why the hell didn't I just knock a 5 iron down there" after topping/pulling/blocking my 3 wood second shot on a par 5.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

NimbleNeil said:



			Recently started playing and can only max about 190, I've heard all about spin and launch angle but know nothing of how to actually get them right. I'm 16, 56kg so there's not a lot of muscle to work with but like you said if there's any techniques that you can share that a beginner could easily pick up over the internet i'd be more than willing to hear it
		
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IMO Smiffy is spot on - it's more technique, rhythm and timing (and I'd add balance as essential aspect that ties it all together) rather than brute strength. I've worked hard on those and while my drives used to be maybe 240 yards total I now carry it about 275-280 and have a total hovering around 300. But that's not a thrash, that's a balanced swing - losing acuracy isn't about hitting it hard, it's about not being able to stay balanced while you do it.

Wasn't really going to be a 'how to' thread, more a slightly different way of looking at hitting it longer, but as a couple have asked I'll briefly show what I've worked on and how I've picked up so many yards off the tee. Not necessarily saying you'll be hitting it 300 yards Neil, but it will help to have an understanding of what you're trying to do.

at a mate's on my phone right now but will post up something later on


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## Retread61 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			IMO Smiffy is spot on - it's more technique, rhythm and timing (and I'd add balance as essential aspect that ties it all together) rather than brute strength. I've worked hard on those and while my drives used to be maybe 240 yards total I now carry it about 275-280 and have a total hovering around 300. But that's not a thrash, that's a balanced swing - losing acuracy isn't about hitting it hard, it's about not being able to stay balanced while you do it.

Wasn't really going to be a 'how to' thread, more a slightly different way of looking at hitting it longer, but as a couple have asked I'll briefly show what I've worked on and how I've picked up so many yards off the tee. Not necessarily saying you'll be hitting it 300 yards Neil, but it will help to have an understanding of what you're trying to do.

at a mate's on my phone right now but will post up something later on 

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Im not having a pop but there is a disconnect here with your description of your power etc and your kit. Project X 6.5  shafts are heavy and stiff! Some tour players go as far as 7.0 but not many. If you use these shafts then dude you hit it HARD. A "normal" swing speed or launch condition cannot make those shafts work.


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## NimbleNeil (Nov 16, 2014)

In the 3 GM mags I've picked up since starting I've read a lot about rhythm, timing, a smooth stroke that accelerates through the ball etc., but i'm struggling to translate this into physical changes I can make to my swing.  I'll be getting some lessons with Xmas and birthday money no doubt.
Looking forwards to hearing what you have to say


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

Retread61 said:



			Im not having a pop but there is a disconnect here with your description of your power etc and your kit. Project X 6.5  shafts are heavy and stiff! Some tour players go as far as 7.0 but not many. If you use these shafts then dude you hit it HARD. A "normal" swing speed or launch condition cannot make those shafts work.
		
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Yep, Rory was on the Project X 6.5 a year ago and has now stepped up to the 7.0 - guess I'll have to spend more time in the gym to keep up with the wipper-snappers  Fitting took an age (2 months) as Ping had to get the heads made up in the States to fit the 6.5 Tour shafts, another story though.

It's a fair comment to a point....... but I'm not suggesting Neil will make a few tweaks to his swing and be adding 130 yards to his drive over night and be badgering Ping like I had to, to get tour spec shafts. What I'm suggesting is that the way in which I have managed to generate quite a bit more power and distance could help those at the lower end of the scale to do likewise - not to be driving it over 300 yards but perhaps turning 190 max into a bit more. I'll see if I can explain below.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

Right, this'll take a few posts so just bear with me.

Firstly, I believe that balance is absolutely crucial when gaining power and therefore driving distance. 9 times out of 10 it's not that someone can't or couldn't hit it any harder, it's that they can't hit it harder and stay in balance. That's partly about proprioception (being able to feel where your body is and your centre of gravity is during the swing) but also about keeping that centre of gravity relatively stable. In essence keeping your weight inside your stance and not letting it get outside it. I'll come back to this in a mo.

The other aspect is rhythm, timing and sequencing you swing from the ground up. It sounds pretty complicated but it really just means that you have a tiny shift (and I mean tiny) of your weight onto your front foot (one nearest the target) and your hips move, before the club starts down. I did a really simple drill to get this nailed where you do  a back swing then push down on the ball of your front foot (put a coin under it if it helps) then swing the club down. Then a little back swing, push down and then swing. Just keep doing this for a while and your swing will get 'squenced'.

The other thing this does is stop you trying to snatch from the top. People do this because they are swinging totally with their arms. Do the step drill and you start to bring your body into the swing and there's a hell of a lot more power in your body than in your arms alone.

The swing also looks like you're not trying as hard because....... well you're not trying as hard. You're allowing the sequence of your swing (tiny weight shift, hips start to move, shoulders move, club moves) create the power. It's referred to as a kinetic chain and with each link power is added so by the time I swing my arms all the power of my weight transfer, hip turn, shoulders, is already in play and my arm swing is just adding to it. 

You probably see it better with an iron. I hit my 8 iron about 155-160ish carry on a stock shot (up to 170 if I open it up but as many have said - why bother, just pull a more suitable club) and this is my swing with my 8 iron (work in progress so no pointing out all the other stuff I still need to work on - I know!!  )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKrI2UsafVg&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

Going back to balance and being able to swing at the ball a tad, probably easiest to show with a practice swing I recorder the other day as you get an idea of the club head speed you can generate from the swish. As I said before, no I'm not saying everyone is going to step up and do this tomorrow but it shows what you can generate is you're a chubby (and balding it would seem - note to self don't have lights on so bright next time I video my swing!) 40 year old.

The point of this is not "Wow what club head speed I got!" it the fact that if you're in balance you can do it without your swing going to pot. Good 'check' is if you can't easily hold a posey finish at the end you're not not in balance.

You'll need the volume up to hear the swish, ignore the kids in the background, no idea what they were trashing at the time.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrikgGCQg9c&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

If you watch it a couple of times you can probably see it looks like there's a pause at the top. It's really the club that's pausing the most as the rest of the kinetic chain sets in motion with a bit of a weight shift (tiny) and the hips start moving etc) and then you 'shift through the gears' as I've seen it described, with the club head travelling quickly by the end.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

Looking at keeping the spin off the ball to get the max distance out of the shot (the slower the spin the further the ball goes) it's really tied in with balance and that's all tied in with keeping your centre of gravity or centre of mass stable. Looking at a freeze frame of the setup from the swing above I've drawn 2 lines next to my head and left hip....... which I guess you can see but wanted to point out that they are significant.....




If I now wind forwards to impact you can see a few things:

- My head is pretty much where it was at setup, I haven't get ahead of the ball
- My hips are ahead of my shoulders (more open) which are ahead of the club head, the kinetic chain is working in order
- Everything is driving up in the direction of the blue lines that takes off spin. I'm actually adding the power of my legs driving up to the ball as well - everything is working together.







Now contrast that with standing there, holding the club and swinging it with your arms, which will get the most power?

So yep, fair point before - I'm using a 'tour spec' shaft at the higher end of what some pros use, my G30 is set to 8 degrees of loft (but I get plenty of height on the shot as I drive upwards on the ball to take the spin off), I'm not saying that everyone is going to add this kind of distance tomorrow. 

But what I am saying is if you stay balanced so you can 'swing within yourself' (ie not fall on your arse because you just thrashed at it), keep centred and hit up on the ball, your technique can give you more distance. It's not "willy waving" it's working hard on one aspect of the game in order to get better results given the physical aspects and kit you have to work with.

Just as an aside, I'm lucky as I have my own launch monitor to work on this stuff (GC2) but that's not to say you can't just do it with a camera phone and some time down the range and some drills. This gives an idea of the launch I get - plenty high enough even with slightly silly loft on the club. Obviously GC2 so zero wind, standard atmosphere and calibrated for a ProV1 which is what I'm hitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLgs9PZSnhQ&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ARlsYv7pA&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNVXH5FCGYU&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34XEV4wEko&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

Hope it's been of a little use to members out there and as I said, anyone near Lincoln wants to come and see if they can tweak their swing a tad on the launch monitor give me a shout. Bobmac is over tomorrow - will be on best behaviour, he gave me my first ever lesson


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## JustOne (Nov 16, 2014)

scottbrown said:



			Length is important for people looking to turn pro or play at high levels.
		
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Is the right answer. Add in a h/cap and the length (or lack of it) is factored into the h/cap they have.

Add yards to any player and their h/cap will drop. Is it easy to do? Is it hell, people don't like to change, they'd rather just buy a new club that they perceive to go further.


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## garyinderry (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Looking at keeping the spin off the ball to get the max distance out of the shot (the slower the spin the further the ball goes) it's really tied in with balance and that's all tied in with keeping your centre of gravity or centre of mass stable. Looking at a freeze frame of the setup from the swing above I've drawn 2 lines next to my head and left hip....... which I guess you can see but wanted to point out that they are significant.....

View attachment 12896



:
If I now wind forwards to impact you can see a few things:

- My head is pretty much where it was at setup, I haven't get ahead of the ball
- My hips are ahead of my shoulders (more open) which are ahead of the club head, the kinetic chain is working in order
- Everything is driving up in the direction of the blue lines that takes off spin. I'm actually adding the power of my legs driving up to the ball as well - everything is working together.

View attachment 12897





Now contrast that with standing there, holding the club and swinging it with your arms, which will get the most power?

So yep, fair point before - I'm using a 'tour spec' shaft at the higher end of what some pros use, my G30 is set to 8 degrees of loft (but I get plenty of height on the shot as I drive upwards on the ball to take the spin off), I'm not saying that everyone is going to add this kind of distance tomorrow. 

But what I am saying is if you stay balanced so you can 'swing within yourself' (ie not fall on your arse because you just thrashed at it), keep centred and hit up on the ball, your technique can give you more distance. It's not "willy waving" it's working hard on one aspect of the game in order to get better results given the physical aspects and kit you have to work with.

Just as an aside, I'm lucky as I have my own launch monitor to work on this stuff (GC2) but that's not to say you can't just do it with a camera phone and some time down the range and some drills. This gives an idea of the launch I get - plenty high enough even with slightly silly loft on the club. Obviously GC2 so zero wind, standard atmosphere and calibrated for a ProV1 which is what I'm hitting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLgs9PZSnhQ&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ARlsYv7pA&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNVXH5FCGYU&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34XEV4wEko&list=UUeWWdVzTfpIFyXmIR_7_CSA

Hope it's been of a little use to members out there and as I said, anyone near Lincoln wants to come and see if they can tweak their swing a tad on the launch monitor give me a shout. Bobmac is over tomorrow - will be on best behaviour, he gave me my first ever lesson 

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Cool. What kind of numbers are you generating? Launch angle, spin, club head speed etc.      lovely flight on those drives. :thup


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Is the right answer. Add in a h/cap and the length (or lack of it) is factored into the h/cap they have.

Add yards to any player and their h/cap will drop. Is it easy to do? Is it hell, people don't like to change, they'd rather just buy a new club that they perceive to go further.
		
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But isn't that a tiny bit like saying "getting a bit more length is also only important for anyone wanting to be better at golf." After all - the aim of the game is getting the ball in the hole in the fewest shots possible, it's not winning because you have a higher handicap........ at least I don't think it is, is it?!?!


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Cool. What kind of numbers are you generating? Launch angle, spin, club head speed etc.      lovely flight on those drives. :thup
		
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I launch it at about 14 degrees so a few degrees upward strike (8 degree driver). Spin is normally a 2000 rpm or a tad below at times, and ball speed gets up to a shade over 160mph on a very good strike. My launch monitor currently only gives ball speed, need an add on (hmt)for club head speed - one day .........

a good few yards of the flight are the far side of the peak height - by getting the spin down you get a neutral flight rather than the ball 'stalling' more if the spin is higher.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			This ^^^^^^

I wish I had a Â£ for every time I've thought "why the hell didn't I just knock a 5 iron down there" after topping/pulling/blocking my 3 wood second shot on a par 5.


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I thought your earlier and longer description about seniors just nobbling it around with stellar short game and putting was spot on and you walk off the 18th and add their score to see it's done you easily. I can't understand the OP still banging on about this and for a vast majority of us on here we're never going to get the extra distance (or accuracy) he seems adamant we all need.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I can't understand the OP still banging on about this and for a vast majority of us on here we're never going to get the extra distance (or accuracy) he seems adamant we all need.
		
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I'm not banging on  I'm answering those who asked how you get more distance. And I'm not saying you need it, feel free to utterly ignore all of the above. I'm saying that for those who want it, a bit more distance is there - they just need to learn how to access it.

Seems like a moderately sensible thing to talk about on a golf forum I thought


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I thought your earlier and longer description about seniors just nobbling it around with stellar short game and putting was spot on and you walk off the 18th and add their score to see it's done you easily. I can't understand the OP still banging on about this and for a vast majority of us on here we're never going to get the extra distance (or accuracy) he seems adamant we all need.
		
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He's banging on because he's right Homie. 2 exactly equal players, but one is 2 clubs longer on average. Who's better?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			I'm not banging on   I'm saying that for those who want it, a bit more distance is there - they just need to learn how to access it.
		
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And many on here are older golfer and less flexible. Many clubs have seniors as Smiffy pointed out who are more than capable of scoring close to handicap regularly. Many don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques and I'm just saying for most handicap golfers accuracy off the tee and a sharper short game would produce equally valid and productive results. It's not all about distance and I just think you're approaching it from the wrong way. If I was learning again, I'd go with what was posted by Bob (very respected pro on here) and start with putting and chipping and work up to the longer clubs once I'd learned the full swing with shorter clubs and could control them better.


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And many on here are older golfer and less flexible. Many clubs have seniors as Smiffy pointed out who are more than capable of scoring close to handicap regularly. Many don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques and I'm just saying for most handicap golfers accuracy off the tee and a sharper short game would produce equally valid and productive results. It's not all about distance and I just think you're approaching it from the wrong way. If I was learning again, I'd go with what was posted by Bob (very respected pro on here) and start with putting and chipping and work up to the longer clubs once I'd learned the full swing with shorter clubs and could control them better.
		
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you are still learning Homer. You take regular lessons. If that is your belief, then are you following it? And if you are, how is it working for you?


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## Lump (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			He's banging on because he's right Homie. 2 exactly equal players, but one is 2 clubs longer on average. Who's better?
		
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The player hitting shorter clubs into greens. ALL DAY LONG!


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			He's banging on because he's right Homie. 2 exactly equal players, but one is 2 clubs longer on average. Who's better?
		
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The shorter hitter is the better player, the longer hitter is just lucky he's long


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

Lump said:



			The player hitting shorter clubs into greens. ALL DAY LONG!
		
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Exactly. The OP is giving his advice on how to improve. It sounds like decent advice to me. He's a better player than me, and his swing looks very nice. I'm struggling to understand why anyone would ignore it unless there was a medical condition, and if so then maybe s golf course is not the best place for them.


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## Lump (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi- Are you distances quoted from CG2 or real world? 170yrd out of a 8 iron is tour longâ€¦. Not that I'm doubting you but your swing is not 170yrd 8 iron fast. No matter how 'primed' your swing is.


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The shorter hitter is the better player, the longer hitter is just lucky he's long
		
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So the shorter hitter is better? Really? Feel free to explain that theory to the current worlds best players.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			He's banging on because he's right Homie. 2 exactly equal players, but one is 2 clubs longer on average. Who's better?
		
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The better player is the one that takes better advantage of the tee shot imo

But the longer hitter is a better player off the tee


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The better player is the one that takes better advantage of the tee shot imo

But the longer hitter is a better player off the tee
		
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But he's longer with every club. Not just off the tee. His 450 yd Par 4 is driver - 7 iron. The shorter hitter is Driver - 5 wood. Who has the better chance of hitting the green?


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			So the shorter hitter is better? Really? Feel free to explain that theory to the current worlds best players.
		
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The question was "2 exactly equal players, but one is 2 clubs longer on average. Who's better?"

A player who is 2 clubs longer should be scoring better than the other guy


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

Lump said:



			Nosevi- Are you distances quoted from CG2 or real world? 170yrd out of a 8 iron is tour longâ€¦. Not that I'm doubting you but your swing is not 170yrd 8 iron fast. No matter how 'primed' your swing is.
		
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No, as I said my stock shot (which that is) is about 155 yards cary with an 8 iron, sometimes a shade over, GC2 and real world. Gc2 is used by many of the club manufacturers, top shaft manufacturers, R&A are just looking at adopting it and About 50% of the world top 50 golfer, some using before a tournament to fine tune/check their yardage - It's pretty accurate  To get 170 I close the club face down, open my hips more at impact and lean the shaft forward...... but like I said, why bother, just use a different club


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The question was "2 exactly equal players, but one is 2 clubs longer on average. Who's better?"

A player who is 2 clubs longer should be scoring better than the other guy
		
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He will be scoring better. I never mentioned their handicap. I said they were equal in ability, but one was longer. The longer guy is hitting shorter irons into the green. 2 degrees off line from 150 yards is a lot closer to the pin than 2 degrees off line from 170 yards.


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			He will be scoring better. I never mentioned their handicap. I said they were equal in ability, but one was longer. The longer guy is hitting shorter irons into the green. 2 degrees off line from 150 yards is a lot closer to the pin than 2 degrees off line from 170 yards.
		
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You should have been clearer with the question then, if the two players are equal, then their scores would be the same.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			you are still learning Homer. You take regular lessons. If that is your belief, then are you following it? And if you are, how is it working for you?
		
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I'm still having lessons. Been about controlling the club head and path much better in the last two years and eradicating all the moving parts. Still managed to go from 14-10 (back to 12 for now) but strike and control (and yes distance has increased) a world away from my starting point. Now I can chip and putt so much better, scores themselves are getting better and still have unfaltering belief I'll be single figures. 

However I've invested time and effort to improve. Many don't have any interest in doing so. Where's there extra distance coming from. Not sure in the subsequent posts there's such a thing as 2 exactly the same players. Not sure it matters anyway. It's about how you control your ball. Played with lots of big hitters having to play their next from rough or reload because although they can hit it miles they can't keep it on the golf course


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## pokerjoke (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And many on here are older golfer and less flexible. Many clubs have seniors as Smiffy pointed out who are more than capable of scoring close to handicap regularly. Many don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques and I'm just saying for most handicap golfers accuracy off the tee and a sharper short game would produce equally valid and productive results. It's not all about distance and I just think you're approaching it from the wrong way. If I was learning again, I'd go with what was posted by Bob (very respected pro on here) and start with putting and chipping and work up to the longer clubs once I'd learned the full swing with shorter clubs and could control them better.
		
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I doubt if theres one pro in the game who would advocate starting the game with putting.


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			You should have been clearer with the question then, if the two players are equal, then their scores would be the same.
		
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You interpreted it in your own way. It was quite clear, but next time I will make it watertight


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm still having lessons. Been about controlling the club head and path much better in the last two years and eradicating all the moving parts. Still managed to go from 14-10 (back to 12 for now) but strike and control (and yes distance has increased) a world away from my starting point. Now I can chip and putt so much better, scores themselves are getting better and still have unfaltering belief I'll be single figures. 

However I've invested time and effort to improve. Many don't have any interest in doing so. Where's there extra distance coming from. Not sure in the subsequent posts there's such a thing as 2 exactly the same players. Not sure it matters anyway. It's about how you control your ball. Played with lots of big hitters having to play their next from rough or reload because although they can hit it miles they can't keep it on the golf course
		
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Ok, quick question. Would you accept 20 yards further off the tee with the same control you currently have?


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And many on here are older golfer and less flexible. Many clubs have seniors as Smiffy pointed out who are more than capable of scoring close to handicap regularly. Many don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques and I'm just saying for most handicap golfers accuracy off the tee and a sharper short game would produce equally valid and productive results. It's not all about distance and I just think you're approaching it from the wrong way. If I was learning again, I'd go with what was posted by Bob (very respected pro on here) and start with putting and chipping and work up to the longer clubs once I'd learned the full swing with shorter clubs and could control them better.
		
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Bob gave me my first ever lesson, I'm seeing him tomorrow 

Homer, I'm not saying you have to put 160mph on the ball (in fact I'm not saying you personally have to take the blindest bit of notice to any of this). But lets say you're a not ver flexible senior golf and you hit your drives a little shorter than you have to - perhaps you're trying to hit the ball harder and sliding forwards a tad so striking down on the ball. This gives you more spin, this loses distance. Put the same swing on the ball, keeping behind it and striking up a fraction and the ball will go further. In fact hit it softer but upwards a little keeping you head back a toosh and the ball will go further. If you don't want it to go further that's no snags, honestly, it's your game you play it how you like. But for those who do want it to go further isn't it worth giving a few pointers?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			I doubt if theres one pro in the game who would advocate starting the game with putting.
		
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Bob Mac said he'd start people with the short game and putting if he could persuade pupils to be taught that way


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## pokerjoke (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Bob gave me my first ever lesson, I'm seeing him tomorrow 

Homer, I'm not saying you have to put 160mph on the ball (in fact I'm not saying you personally have to take the blindest bit of notice to any of this. But lets say you're a not ver flexible senior golf and you hit your drives a little shorter than you have to - perhaps you're trying to hit the ball harder and sliding forwards a tad so striking down on the ball. This gives you more spin, this loses distance. Put the same swing on the ball, keeping behind it and striking up a fraction and the ball will go further. In fact hit it softer but upwards a little keeping you head back a toosh and the ball will go further. If you don't want it to go further that's no snags, honestly, it's your game you play it how you like. But for those who do want it to go further isn't it worth giving a few pointers?
		
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Have you seen the Mark Crossfield you-tube video 24.5 yards longer.
It is basically saying what your saying and its so simple.
Just hitting it right, at the right launch angle adds yards


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## Region3 (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And many on here are older golfer and less flexible. Many clubs have seniors as Smiffy pointed out who are more than capable of scoring close to handicap regularly. Many don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques and I'm just saying for most handicap golfers accuracy off the tee and a sharper short game would produce equally valid and productive results. It's not all about distance and I just think you're approaching it from the wrong way. If I was learning again, I'd go with what was posted by Bob (very respected pro on here) and start with putting and chipping and work up to the longer clubs once I'd learned the full swing with shorter clubs and could control them better.
		
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These seniors that have short games good enough to play near hc regularly mostly play off higher handicaps than they did 10 or 20 years ago. Why is this?

Don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques? Fine, they're probably not bothered about lowering their handicap anyway.

I agree improved accuracy and a sharper short game produce equally valid and productive results with the keyword being 'equally' ie adding distance produces equally good results but short game is all a lot keep banging on about.

Yes, it's not all about distance, in the same way it's not all about short game. You're telling a 5hc he's going on about it the wrong way. Give us a shout when you get to double that.


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## pokerjoke (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Bob Mac said he'd start people with the short game and putting if he could persuade pupils to be taught that way
		
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I know he did Homer but would he be able to persuade that's the question.
I just cant see it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Bob gave me my first ever lesson, I'm seeing him tomorrow 

Homer, I'm not saying you have to put 160mph on the ball (in fact I'm not saying you personally have to take the blindest bit of notice to any of this. But lets say you're a not ver flexible senior golf and you hit your drives a little shorter than you have to - perhaps you're trying to hit the ball harder and sliding forwards a tad so striking down on the ball. This gives you more spin, this loses distance. Put the same swing on the ball, keeping behind it and striking up a fraction and the ball will go further. In fact hit it softer but upwards a little keeping you head back a toosh and the ball will go further. If you don't want it to go further that's no snags, honestly, it's your game you play it how you like. But for those who do want it to go further isn't it worth giving a few pointers?
		
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Sorry but without being rude you've not got the faintest idea how I hit the ball and whether I hit down or not and it's a tad condescending for you tell me what I should or shouldn't do. I'll stick to a qualified PGA pro for my lessons thanks :thup:


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## pokerjoke (Nov 16, 2014)

Region3 said:



			These seniors that have short games good enough to play near hc regularly mostly play off higher handicaps than they did 10 or 20 years ago. Why is this?

Don't have the time or inclination to learn new techniques? Fine, they're probably not bothered about lowering their handicap anyway.

I agree improved accuracy and a sharper short game produce equally valid and productive results with the keyword being 'equally' ie adding distance produces equally good results but short game is all a lot keep banging on about.

Yes, it's not all about distance, in the same way it's not all about short game. You're telling a 5hc he's going on about it the wrong way. Give us a shout when you get to double that.
		
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You will be dead


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## pokerjoke (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but without being rude you've not got the faintest idea how I hit the ball and whether I hit down or not and it's a tad condescending for you tell me what I should or shouldn't do. I'll stick to a qualified PGA pro for my lessons thanks :thup:
		
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Yes like that's working.

Whats wrong with you Homer having a personal dig at people.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but without being rude you've not got the faintest idea how I hit the ball and whether I hit down or not and it's a tad condescending for you tell me what I should or shouldn't do. I'll stick to a qualified PGA pro for my lessons thanks :thup:
		
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Homer, I'm not saying YOU are that golfer, I'm saying let's just say A senior golfer is hitting the ball shorter than he wants. I'm not saying I can 'fix' someone's swing, I haven't seen them. I'm saying this is how you get more distance. It's in no way condescending to say "This works, you can give it a go if you fancy." I'd go to someone like Bob....... in fact I did and do.

I'm not entirely sure why you're finding such offence in a thread not directed at you on a subject you don't care about. You don't care - got that bit. Neil from earlier does. Am I not allowed to tell him for fear of upsetting someone else. Be at least a tad reasonable


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes like that's working.

Whats wrong with you Homer having a personal dig at people.
		
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Whatever. Very happy with what I'm doing thank you. He's never seen me hit a ball so how can he know if I hit up or down on a shot?

I'm just not that convinced that for a lot of golfers, longer is necessarily the holy grail and that it's not what handicappers need to focus on if their game was to improve. Just my opinion


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			Yes like that's working.

Whats wrong with you Homer having a personal dig at people.
		
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HomerJSimpson said:



			Whatever. Very happy with what I'm doing thank you. He's never seen me hit a ball so how can he know if I hit up or down on a shot?
		
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Let's not all get upset with each other, guys. I'm just saying this is how to add yards. I really don't want to upset anyone. If guys want to know have a read and maybe try some of it. If not no snags from me


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## pokerjoke (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Whatever. Very happy with what I'm doing thank you. He's never seen me hit a ball so how can he know if I hit up or down on a shot?
		
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He wasn't talking about you personally/

As I said its not working.

To be honest I have not up close either but im looking forward to the day.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I'm just not that convinced that for a lot of golfers, longer is necessarily the holy grail and that it's not what handicappers need to focus on if their game was to improve. Just my opinion
		
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And you're more than welcome to it....... and I agree - ask anyone at Blankney, I'm on or around the putting green practicing for at least a couple of hours every day.

It's just one aspect of the game, Homer. No one's saying it's the most important


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			As I said its not working
		
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As I've said countless times on here though the difference between the way I hit it two years ago and now are million miles apart and yes it's working. Sometimes, progress isn't marked by handicap progression alone, at least in my mind. Not going to discuss the merits of my own golfing progress on here further as I've said my piece, disagreed with the OP, and time it move it on


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## Alex1975 (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sorry but without being rude you've not got the faintest idea how I hit the ball and whether I hit down or not and it's a tad condescending for you tell me what I should or shouldn't do. I'll stick to a qualified PGA pro for my lessons thanks :thup:
		
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I dont think the guy could have been any less condescending in what he said. He litterealy told you to ignor him if you liked! 

Why Why why do we consistantly shun people who try to share a little joy they have gained or something that has helped them and may help us. 

Every post can not be directed at every person....


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## Region3 (Nov 16, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			You will be dead

Click to expand...


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

OK, I apologise and condescending was inappropriate. However I'd still prefer my PGA pro and not a 5 handicapper to advise me. I still disagree that hitting it longer is a necessity but that's just my take. Apologies again


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## User20205 (Nov 16, 2014)

Distance can't hurt. As for these mythical senior golfers with amazing short games, they do exist but with an important consideration.
Most of the seniors at my place won't play any comps off the whites. There are 2-3 carries they can't make, they may have cracking short games but they would benefit from a few  more yards.

I could benefit from a few more yards off the tee.....in a straight line 


On a side note, does anyone else see the irony in homie stating he's not going to discuss his golfing progress with anyone else


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## NimbleNeil (Nov 16, 2014)

Thanks Nosevi! It's getting cold so I really need to squeeze a few range days in to put this all to practice, I could never hold a finish stance, or even turn my back leg to be honest, so controlling my balance should be very helpful.


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## Region3 (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			OK, I apologise and condescending was inappropriate. However I'd still prefer my PGA pro and not a 5 handicapper to advise me. I still disagree that hitting it longer is a necessity but that's just my take. Apologies again
		
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I don't remember reading the op saying it was a necessity. He also hasn't said its a better way to improve than accuracy or short game. Even better than that, he didn't even say you have swing swing faster, so almost everybody should be physically capable of trying it. Just alter your launch conditions and distance will improve.

I honestly don't see what you're disagreeing with?


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## Region3 (Nov 16, 2014)

therod said:



			Most of the seniors at my place won't play any comps off the whites. *There are 2-3 carries they can't make*, they may have cracking short games but they would benefit from a few  more yards.
		
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But they should be able to chip it down the cart path deadly accurate


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			OK, I apologise and condescending was inappropriate. However I'd still prefer my PGA pro and not a 5 handicapper to advise me. I still disagree that hitting it longer is a necessity but that's just my take. Apologies again
		
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Really not taken offence guys 

and I won't be a 5 handiapper for long - hence all the short game practice


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

We have a carry on the 3rd many seniors can't make. They either hit it down towards the drop zone or ping it across to the 7th and then back across onto the 3rd from there. Much shorter carry back across and they all get a shot


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## User20205 (Nov 16, 2014)

Region3 said:



			But they should be able to chip it down the cart path deadly accurate 

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There was serious talk last year of putting in a lay up area in on the 18th. The carry is approx 200 yards off the whites. About 180 off the yellows. Some of the old fellas were struggling off the yellows. 

I don't need a layup area, just need a few trees down the right taking out


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 16, 2014)

Lump said:



			The player hitting shorter clubs into greens. ALL DAY LONG!
		
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Nope sorry, wrong answer. Correct answer is the one shooting the lower scores  :thup:


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## HawkeyeMS (Nov 16, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Nope sorry, wrong answer. Correct answer is the one shooting the lower scores  :thup:
		
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If one was shooting lower scores, they wouldn't be equal


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

Forget the latter part of this which is all "get lessons get lessons" and I know many don't want to, but according to the R&A average driving distances between 1996 and 2012 increased by a massive 3 yards despite the huge advances in technology

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glFOEBdJeMA&feature=youtu.be


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 16, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			If one was shooting lower scores, they wouldn't be equal 

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If they are shooting the same scores then neither is better


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			But he's longer with every club. Not just off the tee. His 450 yd Par 4 is driver - 7 iron. The shorter hitter is Driver - 5 wood. Who has the better chance of hitting the green?
		
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But for me the better player will be the one who finds the green and then makes the putts etc 

If they are both making the green and making the putts then as overall players they are equal with one being better of the tee. 

But obviously if the longer hitter takes advantage of his extra length and hits his second closer to the pin and scores more birdies etc then he is the better player

Distance is a good weapon in golf - you can give yourself a better chance by hitting it further


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## garyinderry (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Forget the latter part of this which is all "get lessons get lessons" and I know many don't want to, but according to the R&A average driving distances between 1996 and 2012 increased by a massive 3 yards despite the huge advances in technology

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glFOEBdJeMA&feature=youtu.be

Click to expand...


He just said the same thing. Lessons and ''understand your numbers'.  By this he means exactly what nosevi is saying. Changing you launch and spin.


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## bluewolf (Nov 16, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			If one was shooting lower scores, they wouldn't be equal 

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Yes they would.. Equal in ability. Equally accurate. Equal shortgame, but one was longer.. Who scores better? It's not a trick question.. It would be the same answer if they were both equal, but one was a better putter... Who would shoot better scores.. 

Anyway, the argument is getting ridiculous. How anyone can possibly state that adding distance, without losing accuracy is not a good way to reduce your scores is beyond me. Short game and Long game improvement are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other..


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 16, 2014)

But despite lessons, changes in technology, the average golfer is just three yards longer according to the R&A. I understand changing launch conditions improve distance but how come there's such a small increase, despite more golfers hitting driver according to the R&A survey. Not all of the golfers and I'm assuming it's a poll across *all* abilities will have had lessons but many will. I just think the survey proves that for many it's not necessarily as easy as perhaps suggested


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## garyinderry (Nov 16, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Yes they would.. Equal in ability. Equally accurate. Equal shortgame, but one was longer.. Who scores better? It's not a trick question.. It would be the same answer if they were both equal, but one was a better putter... Who would shoot better scores.. 

Anyway, the argument is getting ridiculous. How anyone can possibly state that adding distance, without losing accuracy is not a good way to reduce your scores is beyond me. Short game and Long game improvement are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other..
		
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This is how you test the equal golfer paradox.

Play 9 holes.  With a second ball, put it 20 yards ahead of your tee shot and see who wins.  Your first ball or your +20yard ball.


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## guest100718 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi said:



 hats off to the chap that said it was a fishing trip - maybe I overstated the case a tad but that was to prompt discussion.

Here's a fact though - long hitting doesn't hurt you. A lack of accuracy might but long hitting doesn't. 

There are several ball flight models out there but all are pretty similar these days. Taking this one: http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/ 
and plug in a launch speed of say 130mph (pretty low in truth), trajectory of 14 degrees and spin of about 4000rpm which is not an unusual number to see on a short driver. It'll give you a drive of about 220 or just under yards. Now leave the ball speed and trajectory the same but drop the spin to 2000rpm - there's your 20 yards. Most short hitters would gain that by slightly changing their technique (being more centred, maintaining spine tilt etc) yet not hitting the ball any harder.

Knowing what you know about golf, if you hit the ball with the same force but with less overall spin, will it hold its line more or go off line more, especially into wind?

Using the tech that's now available you can do things like getting more distance with no more effort while hitting the ball in such a way that it holds its line better. You just need to know how to use it.
		
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There's a youtube from mark crossfield that says pretty much this. He shows how just a few tweeks can add 20+ yds to a drive


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## guest100718 (Nov 16, 2014)

Length combined with accuracy is what you need.  The closer you are to the flag for your 2nd shot,  the easier it is to get it close.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But despite lessons, changes in technology, the average golfer is just three yards longer according to the R&A......
		
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Ah yes, but the 'average golfer' has not yet read this thread 

Joking of course. But on Mark Crossfield's video (I subscribe to his channel as it happens) he says about changing things like - if they can just change small things like hitting up on the ball by 2 degrees the average golfer would pick up yardage. That's to reduce the spin and you do that by not getting ahead of the ball. That's kind of what I was getting at, obviously a pro should be able to help you do this.

just out of interest, looking at my driver swing before I was taught or knew anything about balance or the kinetic chain or timing or..... Well any of that stuff really you should be able to see a difference. I was actually fitter then as I had a serious knee injury between the two but hopefully people can see that with basically the same (or similar) physical assets you can make a bit of a difference in this area if you want to. (Anyone points out I've lost my hair a bit since then, I know - kids!)

Then (bit like Bambi on ice really)
http://youtu.be/G-szGxx5yJo

Now, the vid I posted before
http://youtu.be/UrikgGCQg9c

I know it's been said it's not easy to make that degree of a change, but just a bit of it would help. Guessing I was about 220 off the tee at the time of the first vid.


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## tsped83 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Ah yes, but the 'average golfer' has not yet read this thread 

Joking of course. But on Mark Crossfield's video (I subscribe to his channel as it happens) he says about changing things like - if they can just change small things like hitting up on the ball by 2 degrees the average golfer would pick up yardage. That's to reduce the spin and you do that by not getting ahead of the ball. That's kind of what I was getting at, obviously a pro should be able to help you do this.

just out of interest, looking at my driver swing before I was taught or knew anything about balance or the kinetic chain or timing or..... Well any of that stuff really you should be able to see a difference. I was actually fitter then as I had a serious knee injury between the two but hopefully people can see that with basically the same (or similar) physical assets you can make a bit of a difference in this area if you want to. (Anyone points out I've lost my hair a bit since then, I know - kids!)

Then (bit like Bambi on ice really)
http://youtu.be/G-szGxx5yJo

Now, the vid I posted before
http://youtu.be/UrikgGCQg9c

I know it's been said it's not easy to make that degree of a change, but just a bit of it would help. Guessing I was about 220 off the tee at the time of the first vid.
		
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Sorry, that first video cracks me up. Were you out jogging by a farmers field with your driver? Then decided to film an impromptu swing video without a ball? Eh? Sorry, it's tickled me. Do carry on!

Swings looks good to me though.


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## Region3 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi, out of curiosity, did you come to your choice of shaft by trial and error or were you fitted?

I know you're long by handicap golfer standards, but I've seen Luke Donald say he hits his 8 iron around 156-158 and he plays S300.


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## Toad (Nov 16, 2014)

Nosevi, agree with the simple changes making a massive difference. I had a lesson where we focused only on the driver, had an issue with casting and had a major out to in swing path. Result was a maximum 250y drive with a fade, made the adjustments the pro recommended and despite the swing speed dropping a little I was getting them out to 280Y with the longest being 289y. Think I still have the video of the lesson and will stick it up if I find it. 

I now drive 20-30 yards longer than before and it is not all about the power, I have a more controlled swing and definitely feel I am more balanced.  
With the added distance and accuracy that came with it I have slashed 3 shots off my handicap so far.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

tsped83 said:



			Sorry, that first video cracks me up. Were you out jogging by a farmers field with your driver? Then decided to film an impromptu swing video without a ball? Eh? Sorry, it's tickled me. Do carry on!

Swings looks good to me though.
		
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lol. No, had forgotten I had it tbh but remember how it came about. I was at work and was on my way home. I knew when I got there I would be presented with a crying child as my wife had been stuck inside with him all day. It didn't appeal so I stopped in a layby and practiced my golf swing for an hour or so. Still ashamed of myself if I'm honest...... 



Region3 said:



			Nosevi, out of curiosity, did you come to your choice of shaft by trial and error or were you fitted?

I know you're long by handicap golfer standards, but I've seen Luke Donald say he hits his 8 iron around 156-158 and he plays S300.
		
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Little bit trial an error in that my pro got a selection of shafts and we tried them on my own launch monitor. He's a fan of the project X shafts so we tried some and stepped it up until we got the best launch. With shafts it's not just the swing speed you look at but also the swing length. I hit it reasonably hard but off quite a short swing compared to someone like Luke Donald. As a result there's a sharper acceleration so you generally need a stiffer shaft.


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## Nosevi (Nov 16, 2014)

Toad said:



			Nosevi, agree with the simple changes making a massive difference. I had a lesson where we focused only on the driver, had an issue with casting and had a major out to in swing path. Result was a maximum 250y drive with a fade, made the adjustments the pro recommended and despite the swing speed dropping a little I was getting them out to 280Y with the longest being 289y. Think I still have the video of the lesson and will stick it up if I find it. 

I now drive 20-30 yards longer than before and it is not all about the power, I have a more controlled swing and definitely feel I am more balanced.  
With the added distance and accuracy that came with it I have slashed 3 shots off my handicap so far.
		
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Interesting to hear. For me it does seem to stem around being more balanced and controlled. You can see in that first vid I'm all over the place balance and centre of gravity wise. It makes a difference, at least it does for me.


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## bobmac (Nov 17, 2014)

If someone comes to me for a lesson, they decide what the lesson is going to be about.
Cure a slice/hook/duff/top etc
But if someone wants a series of lessons on the WHOLE game, I would break it down into 6 sessions starting with putting.

1.Putting
Check grip, posture, aim, ball position, stroke etc

2. Chipping
 all the above plus club selection and note how the wrists still dont hinge

3. Pitching
All the above but note the wrists start to hinge

4.
Bunker shots
All the above and note the swing getting longer

5. Fairway shots
All the above and note the swing getting longer

6. Driving
All the above and note changing the ball position forward for the contact with the up swing.

So you see how each lesson is linked to the previous one, gradually building up the swing
Starting with a small, no wrist action then gradually increasing the hinge and length of the swing to eventually the driver

From working back from the green to the tee makes more sense to me than doing it the other way round.
It's often described as 'REVERSE CHAINING'

Hope that helps


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

Does make a lot of sense. With me I was having a lot of trouble pitching - (still not my strong suit, tips later?  ) I just couldn't get the contact I wanted so length was very variable. I spent quite a bit of time getting it sorted out a bit and the surprising thing (or perhaps not....) was when I went back to the full swing the ball was being struck more cleanly, it was going a bit lower, a bit further and a bit more consistantly. The work I did on pitching carried over imediately into the full swing.


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

Had a great time with Bobmac on my launch monitor/sim setup today - think it's fair to say he liked it. Yardages were spot on what he hits each club he said which is what I expected. Be interesting to hear his thoughts (as someone who really knows what they're talking about rather than my ramblings) as to how I get the distance off the tee that I do. Also interesting that I could hit it straight with a longer hit but trying to back off just made me steer the ball and it took me a few shots to get the hang of it, even then I was far happier hitting it full length.

Will let him explain in 'pro speak' if he gets a chance but think it's fair to say it's not because I thrash at the ball, in fact I feel like I swing quite slowly from the top but accelerate all the way through the downswing. There's not actually a point in the swing where I try to hit the ball hard, it's just a gradual acceleration from the top.......

Anyway, if he has the time I'll see if he can explain it.

And if he ever asks you to try to hit his 1 iron I'd say no thanks if I were you. ****** silly club


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 17, 2014)

If I want to see someone hit the ball well I just watch Els swing the club.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 17, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Was actually looking for a launch monitor thread but stumbled across a bunch of threads about driving distances for some reason. I'm new to the forum but on all of those threads it seemed like people were falling over themselves to say how short they were off the tee (ok, slightly overstating it, perhaps to prompt discussion....) whereas just about every other golf forum I've seen, guys lie blatantly about their driving distance. What gives?

I've worked hard over the last year on picking up a few yards off the tee. IMO it's a fundamental requirement for playing golf at a higher level these days. In fact that's not just my opinion, my coach who teaches guys up to and including national and tour level tells me it is. Faced with a 450 yard par 4, what's your plan if you drive the ball 220? Even my home course has a par 4 that long off the whites and a few others close to it, championship courses it's fairly standard to have numerous holes that long these days. Even on a shorter, slightly more reasonable hole, could a short hitter routinely put his 5 iron closer than a long hitter's PW? I'm guessing not. Whether guys like it or not golf has changed and distance IS important. I'd go as far as to say it's vital in order to play the game at a higher level than the monthly medal at a shortish track.

Getting distance is largely about balance and rhythm, anyone driving the ball short (with modern equipment) could, and maybe should, be getting a lot more distance. Anyone who's met me will vouch that it clearly isn't about physique! I honestly and truthfully could not hit the ball 200-210 yards with my driver if you paid me, physically couldn't do it. The laziest swing I could possibly put on it, it would go further. Hitting a drive a long way is about spin, launch angle and ball speed, probably in that order. If you're a short hitter I guarantee it's the first one where you're getting it wrong.

Being long off the tee isn't about willy-waving or macho-man stuff. It's about having a technique that allows you to maximise the distance you get given the physical attributes you have. Accuracy (or loss of it) has nothing to do with it - last time out with my old man I hit all but one fairway and out drove him by about 50 yards every time....... and one of these days I may even consider telling him how 

The point is it's about technique not muscle. I have an indoor launch monitor and I guarantee if someone who is properly short off the tee came and used it I could add 20 yards if not more to their drive with no loss of accuracy. I'm not a pro, I just know how these things work. In fact, that's an open offer if any member wants to take me up on it - I live near Lincoln.

So, driving distance - only not important if you happen to be a short hitter or actually not important in the modern game of golf?
		
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So.......what exactly are you saying?


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

drive4show said:



			If I want to see someone hit the ball well I just watch Els swing the club.
		
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Couldn't agree more, not exactly an uncontrolled thrash at the ball, is it? All the time in the world, smooth acceleration and the ball flies miles. If I could have any swing on the planet it would be his, with Couples a close second. Both big hitters, neither look like they're trying to be.


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

drive4show said:



			So.......what exactly are you saying?
		
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14 pages but I'll try to paraphrase 

Hitting it big is not about thrashing at the ball, it's about being balanced, having a smooth transition and accelerating through the ball. In essence it's about technique. Some may say (and have said on this site) it's just "willy waving" or showing off, macho stuff. I'd say it isn't, it's a skill that can be learnt. If you use your body properly and put an effective swing together you can get the most out of it and get longer carry distances, much longer in some cases. 

Bobmac came over today and looked at my swing. Was interesting because he gave me my first lessons when I first picked up a golf club, he literally told me how to hold the thing. I'm a 40 year old, bit over weight (understatement of the thread!) and have a dodgy right knee having totally snapped my patella tendon a couple of years ago. I swing in a controlled way, pretty smoothly really and certainly nothing approaching a snatch at the ball or a thrash and I hit it about 315-320 ish today in still air as an example, I averaged a shade over 300. That's not 'internet yards' that's measured. Bob hit as well and the kit gave him precisely the yards he knows he normally gets.

It is possible to learn to hit it big (or at least bigger) it just takes work. But then it's no different to learning how to chip well or putt well - it's a skill.

It was interesting, when Bob asked me to try to 'only' hit it 250, a good few yards past what I could hit it before with the same physique as I have now, I really struggled. I couldn't turn my body through as I normally do and swing through the ball and get it to not go longer. I had to just kind of push the ball down the fairway to get it to not fly further. It's all technique, it really and truthfully is. Not saying everyone is going to hit it over 300 yards but if you're down at 190 yards or so you could probably pick up a few extra without actually hitting the ball any harder at all.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 17, 2014)

So you have started a thread to tell us that you hit the ball further than the longest hitter on the European tour?  I'm impressed  :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 17, 2014)

Seems you have a better average than McIlroy and all the ET pros bar about 5 

So why are you as high as 5 HC ?

It appears you are fixated with distance but possibly need to look at the areas in your game that are letting you down


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## shewy (Nov 17, 2014)

out of interest how tall are you?


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## hovis (Nov 17, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems you have a better average than McIlroy and all the ET pros bar about 5 

So why are you as high as 5 HC ?

It appears you are fixated with distance but possibly need to look at the areas in your game that are letting you down
		
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I dont see the link with distance and tour level golf.   If one hits a ball bubba long should he be on tour?  I have a friend who is 19. He looks and is built like tiger.  His driver ss is 127mph. His 7 iron is 114mph.  He is crazy long off the tee

This guy is a 2 handicap not a tour player


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## garyinderry (Nov 17, 2014)

drive4show said:



			So you have started a thread to tell us that you hit the ball further than the longest hitter on the European tour?  I'm impressed  :thup:
		
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He is carrying 280, not 320.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 17, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			He is carrying 280, not 320.
		
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He says in his reply above he was averaging 315-320 today, Colsearts average this year is 313 and he is the longest according to the ET stats page.


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

drive4show said:



			So you have started a thread to tell us that you hit the ball further than the longest hitter on the European tour?  I'm impressed  :thup:
		
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Not quite. I started this thread to try to suggest a few ways guys could increase their distance off the tee. I have and it seemed sensible to use me as an example. Not a lot of point in saying if you do x you will pick up more yardage but no I have no evidence for that. You clearly don't believe I hit the ball that far, doesn't really matter to me. I'm just saying that if you implement some of these things the ball goes further, that's all.



Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems you have a better average than McIlroy and all the ET pros bar about 5 

So why are you as high as 5 HC ?

It appears you are fixated with distance but possibly need to look at the areas in your game that are letting you down
		
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I will and I am, hence all the time I spend putting and chipping  In answer to your question of why am I am 5 handicap the answer is pretty simple - because I've only recently got my initial handicap and when it came out as 3 the EGU said they wouldn't give me a cat 1 handicap right off the bat so gave me 5.5. On my first card handed in it dropped to 5.1. I expect it to drop quite a bit further given some time and effort.

Look guys it started as a "why are people funny about long hitting?" Type thread but as I was asked how you hit it long I said how it's done. What precisely is the problem with that?


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## garyinderry (Nov 17, 2014)

Do the tour not use carry numbers?    nosevi is talking about where his drives have rolled out to.


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

drive4show said:



			He says in his reply above he was averaging 315-320 today, Colsearts average this year is 313 and he is the longest according to the ET stats page.
		
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No, I said I hit it about 315 or 320, I averaged a shade over 300. I take it you doubt me sir


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Do the tour not use carry numbers?    nosevi is talking about where his drives have rolled out to.
		
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No the ET use total numbers, the PGA use total numbers for drive aberage but have carry numbers on the 'radar stats'.


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## Nosevi (Nov 17, 2014)

shewy said:



			out of interest how tall are you?
		
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Sorry shewy, didn't see the question. About 6 foot.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 17, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			No, I said I hit it about 315 or 320, I averaged a shade over 300. I take it you doubt me sir 

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To be honest, I really don't care how far you hit the ball. I've played with guys who hit the ball a country mile and I've played with a guy I can outdrive by easily 30 yards but he is in his 60's. Last year his handicap went up to 1, the first time in over 40 years that his handicap hasn't been scratch or better. Now THAT impresses me. 

There is only 1 number that matters........the one on the bottom right corner of the scorecard.


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

drive4show said:



			To be honest, I really don't care how far you hit the ball. I've played with guys who hit the ball a country mile and I've played with a guy I can outdrive by easily 30 yards but he is in his 60's. Last year his handicap went up to 1, the first time in over 40 years that his handicap hasn't been scratch or better. Now THAT impresses me. 

There is only 1 number that matters........the one on the bottom right corner of the scorecard.
		
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True and I'm not arguing with any of that in the slightest. But as some guys asked earlier in the thread how it's done should I not tell them because you don't care? Should I be 'coy' about the fact I dive it a long way? Or is it more sensible to say "Here's the theory, here's a demo and this is the result." 

As I said before if you don't care, by all means totally ignore it. But you've said (or implied) you don't believe me regarding driving it up there with the pros distance wise and you have no interest in increasing length off the tee. Fantastic. You asked what the point of the thread was, I told you. If you don't care that's fine. In another thread several guys are saying they don't like going off the back tees on a championship course because they're not long enough. May or may not be relevant to them to have an idea of how to add some extra yards? Just possibly?


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## Region3 (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			True and I'm not arguing with any of that in the slightest. But as some guys asked earlier in the thread how it's done should I not tell them because you don't care? Should I be 'coy' about the fact I dive it a long way? Or is it more sensible to say "Here's the theory, here's a demo and this is the result." 

As I said before if you don't care, by all means totally ignore it. But you've said (or implied) you don't believe me regarding driving it up there with the pros distance wise and you have no interest in increasing length off the tee. Fantastic. You asked what the point of the thread was, I told you. If you don't care that's fine. In another thread several guys are saying they don't like going off the back tees on a championship course because they're not long enough. May or may not be relevant to them to have an idea of how to add some extra yards? Just possibly?
		
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Anyway, 154 posts in and I take it you now see the answer to your original question? 

People don't shy away from talking about distance because it's embarrassing, it's because this is what always happens and it just isn't worth the grief.


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## Smiffy (Nov 18, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			To be honest I have not up close either but im looking forward to the day.
		
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You're playing at Blackmoor next year aren't you????


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Not quite. I started this thread to try to suggest a few ways guys could increase their distance off the tee. I have and it seemed sensible to use me as an example. Not a lot of point in saying if you do x you will pick up more yardage but no I have no evidence for that. You clearly don't believe I hit the ball that far, doesn't really matter to me. I'm just saying that if you implement some of these things the ball goes further, that's all.



I will and I am, hence all the time I spend putting and chipping  In answer to your question of why am I am 5 handicap the answer is pretty simple - because I've only recently got my initial handicap and when it came out as 3 the EGU said they wouldn't give me a cat 1 handicap right off the bat so gave me 5.5. On my first card handed in it dropped to 5.1. I expect it to drop quite a bit further given some time and effort.

Look guys it started as a "why are people funny about long hitting?" Type thread but as I was asked how you hit it long I said how it's done. What precisely is the problem with that?
		
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Your first HC was 5 ?!

How long have you been playing ?


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## Foxholer (Nov 18, 2014)

@OP What is your (measured from you LM) Swing Speed? I'd pick about 115-120mph for that distance.

I believe I have a fairly 'balanced' swing, but my Driver swing speed is around 90mph. Launch and spin are 18* and 1800-2000rpm. Would you care to explain how being 'more balanced' will give me more length? 

As it happens I know a guy who swings 'balanced' at 145mph. He can push (thrash) it to 150mph but does lose a little balance! He does hit it a very long way!

So, to me, there is no substitute for Swing Speed. Sure it has to be balanced, but balance (I'm a huge advocate of that) really becomes a major factor in control and consistency as opposed to straight out distance!


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Your first HC was 5 ?!

How long have you been playing ?
		
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Took up the game mid 30s, played now and then for maybe 18 months, then snapped my patella tendon (not golf related). Had about 18 months out with a couple of Ops etc, couldn't play Rugby any more so took up golf properly and played for about 18 months and got my handicap at 5.5. One card later I tore my achilles (also not golf related, I'm just that clumsy) 9 months of shortgame later and just starting back into it. So next spring I hope to start getting my HC down a bit but we'll see how it goes.

Regarding what Region3 has posted above, so it would seem. I just think increasing driving distance is no different than working on your putting - it's a skill. I'm hardly saying "Woo hoo! I can drive it long and you can't!" am I? I'm saying there's a knack to it and doing just some of what I've said makes a difference. I've also said that using a good launch monitor can help loads - I have one so if anyone want to give it a go for free give me a shout. None of this seems all that unreasonable to me but it always seems to get peoples' heckles up. 

Anyone not interested feel free to ignore it all, if you're not interested I'm frankly surprised you're reading any of it. But for those that ARE intested they should be allowed to discuss how to increase distance off the tee without the endless shouts of "Show off" or "I don't care" or "Stop talking about it!" From others. It's an aspect of the game of golf and this is a golf forum....... Just all IMterriblyHO  of course


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			@OP What is your (measured from you LM) Swing Speed?

I believe I have a fairly 'balanced' swing, but my Driver swing speed is around 90mph. Launch and spin are 18* and 1800-2000rpm. Would you care to explain how being 'more balanced' will give me more length? 

As it happens I know a guy who swings 'balanced' at 145mph. He can push (thrash) it to 150mph but does lose a little balance! He does hit it a very long way!

So, to me, there is no substitute for Swing Speed. Sure it has to be balanced, but balance (I'm a huge advocate of that) really becomes a major factor in consistency as opposed to straight out distance!
		
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Got to sort kids out, not ignoring you and will get back to you. How far is your ball going? Low spin, ballanced, good launch - sounds like you're doing many of the things I'm advocating and that lots of others don't do. If you're getting a good smash factor (nice square centred strike) your ball should be going at a tad over 130mph which is not too shabby. Throughout all of this thread I'm talking about maximising your own potential, if you're already doing that that's great


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## bobmac (Nov 18, 2014)

What a lovely way to spend a Monday, thanks for inviting me over Peter (AKA Nosevi).
I haven't read all the posts on the thread but I'll give my take on what Peter is saying.

There are 5 laws in golf.
Hitting the sweet spot
Clubface direction
Swing path
Angle of attack
Speed
All the above have a DIRECT influence on the ball.

The plan is to transfer as much speed from the clubhead to the ball as possible.
No point in having 120mph swing speed if you're hitting it out of the toe all the time or swinging out to in with an open clubface.

If your speed is good but the other 4 aren't so good, you aren't hitting the ball as far as you could.
So by improving the other 4 WITHOUT increasing your speed, you will hit it further.

Pete has discovered with the help of his simulator that his angle of attack was too steep giving him too much spin and losing distance.
By shallowing his angle of attack, he has improved his launch angle and spin rate which means the ball isn't stalling any more, especially against the wind and has therefor added distance WITHOUT hitting it harder.
I think he just wanted to share that with others on here that may need/want more distance that you can achieve it by hitting it better, not harder.

As far as Pete's distance is concerned I think to say he averages 300 would be a wrong choice of words.
I would say his NORMAL drive is over 300.
While he did hit a couple that weren't his Sunday best, he did hit it consistently over 300 as can be seen below.















So I guess to sum it up, if you feel you are lacking distance, try and get your numbers checked, you may not be getting the distance you could be getting with your speed if one of your laws is out.

Anyway Pete, thanks again for the invite, and I look forward to returning soon.


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 18, 2014)

Not sure about the rest of you, but what I've taken out of this thread is that if you have your own launch monitor and golf simulator in your garage, plus loads of Pro V1s, then you can achieve driving distances equal to the very best pros on tour.  Every day's a school day.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 18, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Not sure about the rest of you, but what I've taken out of this thread is that if you have your own launch monitor and golf simulator in your garage, plus loads of Pro V1s, then you can achieve driving distances equal to the very best pros on tour.  Every day's a school day.
		
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I've taken out of this thread that I don't need to read/listen to experienced, world class instructors to hit the ball further. Something else I've learned is that launch monitors can be very misleading. I tried the G30 3 wood on a LM and I was consistently hitting it 280 yards. Funny that......on the course my 3 wood goes 240


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## Smiffy (Nov 18, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Funny that......on the course my 3 wood goes 240  

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Yeah but you are normally stuffed out with bacon baguette Gordon


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 18, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I've taken out of this thread that I don't need to read/listen to experienced, world class instructors to hit the ball further. Something else I've learned is that launch monitors can be very misleading. I tried the G30 3 wood on a LM and I was consistently hitting it 280 yards. Funny that......on the course my 3 wood goes 240  

Click to expand...

I think you'll find that your 'real life on the course' setting was not calibrated correctly.  And God had been messing with it to give you incorrect figures that did not tie up with the true readings you get on a launch monitor.

And also 240 yards with a 3 wood?? Chinny reckon Mr Big Shot...


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## hovis (Nov 18, 2014)

I think you should play in the champions of champions next year and show em what you've got mate


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 18, 2014)

Smiffy said:



			Yeah but you are normally stuffed out with bacon baguette Gordon


Click to expand...

Sausage Rob, sausage.......the food of champions. Bacon is for those wimps like swinger that don't hit it very far


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## guest100718 (Nov 18, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I've taken out of this thread that I don't need to read/listen to experienced, world class instructors to hit the ball further. Something else I've learned is that launch monitors can be very misleading. I tried the G30 3 wood on a LM and I was consistently hitting it 280 yards. Funny that......on the course my 3 wood goes 240  

Click to expand...

Ah the good old jacked up LM story that often gets peddled.....

 I personally have tried LMs at Direct golf, AG, my local pros GC2 and a trackman, my own swinbyte 2, a Swing speed radar, the sim at urban golf,the mizuno fitting centre and a couple of others... all were very accurate and, sure you get the odd screwy reading, but on the hole they are very good bits of kit that can really make a difference if used correctly.


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Not sure about the rest of you, but what I've taken out of this thread is that if you have your own launch monitor and golf simulator in your garage, plus loads of Pro V1s, then you can achieve driving distances equal to the very best pros on tour.  Every day's a school day.
		
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Or you could have taken that if you do some of the things Bob has mentioned above and I have talked about you can maximise your distance off the tee. Bob has said for some that getting their numbers checked can indicate things to work on and you could have taken that I've said on several occasions that if anyone wants to do that for free on my kit to give me a shout. Really very sorry if for any reason you don't like the fact I have this kit. I thought inviting total strangers to my house to save them a few quid, see where they are in an unrushed way without the pressure of limited time on a comercial launch monitor and with time to 'experiment' to see what helps could maybe help their game if they want help in that direction was not that bad a deal. Take from it what you wish. I've taken that Region3 was about spot on. 

Thanks for your input Bob and thanks for coming over. Definitely do it again some time


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## bluewolf (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Or you could have taken that if you do some of the things Bob has mentioned above and I have talked about you can maximise your distance off the tee. Bob has said for some that getting their numbers checked can indicate things to work on and you could have taken that I've said on several occasions that if anyone wants to do that for free on my kit to give me a shout. Really very sorry if for any reason you don't like the fact I have this kit. I thought inviting total strangers to my house to save them a few quid, see where they are in an unrushed way without the pressure of limited time on a comercial launch monitor and with time to 'experiment' to see what helps could maybe help their game if they want help in that direction was not that bad a deal. Take from it what you wish. I've taken that Region3 was about spot on. 

Thanks for your input Bob and thanks for coming over. Definitely do it again some time 

Click to expand...

I'd leave it now mate.. I've taken some useful information from the thread, but now it's gonna be mainly inhabited by the doubters, naysayers and mockers.. Anyone who wants to read the information can do. Anyone who wants to knock it can have their own little thread knocking party.. :thup: 

Anyway, off to the Hospital, see you all later..


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## bobmac (Nov 18, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Not sure about the rest of you, but what I've taken out of this thread is that if you have your own launch monitor and golf simulator in your garage, plus loads of Pro V1s, then you can achieve driving distances equal to the very best pros on tour.
		
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You dont need to buy all the kit, there are pros that give lessons using trackman etc
I was with Pete for 3 hours and we used 3 balls
As for the distances, you may not believe them but they were accurate for me ('normal' drive 260-270) so no need to question Pete's figures.




			I've taken out of this thread that I don't need to read/listen to experienced, world class instructors to hit the ball further.
		
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Well, you could have a lesson with a pro who uses the technology and get the best of both worlds. 




			Something else I've learned is that launch monitors can be very misleading.
		
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So all LM are wrong?

I wonder if there would have been the same reaction on this thread if Pete had said he had increased hit distance from 240 to 260 ?

The point Pete was making was you can hit the ball further by hitting it better, not harder.


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## Slab (Nov 18, 2014)

I've learned that distance is important (actually I knew that bit already) but I'm somehow supposed to feel embarrassed if I cant get it out there

I agree my 14/14 fairways hit on Sunday are meaningless because I couldn't get my 3w past 180 off the tee, my PP on the other hand had some distance stories to tell back in the pro shop as he replenished the dozen balls 

I really honestly admire how he hits it... just not where he hits it!



I think though that his issue is easier to fix than mine


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I've taken out of this thread that I don't need to read/listen to experienced, world class instructors to hit the ball further. Something else I've learned is that launch monitors can be very misleading. I tried the G30 3 wood on a LM and I was consistently hitting it 280 yards. Funny that......on the course my 3 wood goes 240  

Click to expand...

Not going to get into a tis/tisn't. The kit I use is used by Titleist, Ping, cleveland, taylormade, cobra, callaway, aldila, wilson staff, fujikura, the pga tour, about 50% of the top pros right now, the R&A are allegedly looking to adopt it........ the list goes on. I had a pro with me hitting his normal yardages (bob was calling it before he hit it - one day ....... ), I would suggest the kit I use is probably fairly accurate


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## guest100718 (Nov 18, 2014)

With the tech getting ever more affordable, home setups will become much more common. There are already some great personal launch monitors and bluetooth swing analylers out there and they are only getting better and cheaper.


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			I've learned that distance is important (actually I knew that bit already) but I'm somehow supposed to feel embarrassed if I cant get it out there
		
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sorry, that was far from my intention. It was about maximising what you have, nothing more. Thought that has been clear throught but maybe not, sorry. 



guest100718 said:



			With the tech getting ever more affordable, home setups will become much more common. There are already some great personal launch monitors and bluetooth swing analylers out there and they are only getting better and cheaper.
		
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Very, very true.


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## Slab (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			sorry, that was far from my intention. It was about maximising what you have, nothing more. Thought that has been clear throught but maybe not, sorry. 
.
		
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Apologies, I didn't mean in the context of your opening or subsequent posts, just the wider context that a off line 300 yard drive will still get a gasp from others while a straight 180 will get gasps for a very diff reason


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 18, 2014)

Wow, some people on here really have a chip on their shoulder. This thread is absolutely ridiculous at times. Bob, who on most other threads gets people fawning over him to back him up, has vouched for Nosevi and it seems he still gets doubted/ridiculed.

Some people are longer than others, sorry to break that to everyone. Try not to get your panties in a bunch that one guy gets it out to 300+


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## User20205 (Nov 18, 2014)

I wish I had that set up in my garage!!

I'd be around like a shot if I was closer, on the proviso that you made a decent cup of tea

it's possible to optimise the conditions from a launch monitor,  but not make it lie.


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## Doh (Nov 18, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Wow, some people on here really have a chip on their shoulder. This thread is absolutely ridiculous at times. Bob, who on most other threads gets people fawning over him to back him up, has vouched for Nosevi and it seems he still gets doubted/ridiculed.

Some people are longer than others, sorry to break that to everyone. Try not to get your panties in a bunch that one guy gets it out to 300+
		
Click to expand...



Well said.


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Slab said:



			Apologies, I didn't mean in the context of your opening or subsequent posts, just the wider context that a off line 300 yard drive will still get a gasp from others while a straight 180 will get gasps for a very diff reason
		
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Thanks, I don't like offending people but seem to have here. Glad you're not one of them 



CheltenhamHacker said:



			Wow, some people on here really have a chip on their shoulder. This thread is absolutely ridiculous at times. Bob, who on most other threads gets people fawning over him to back him up, has vouched for Nosevi and it seems he still gets doubted/ridiculed.

Some people are longer than others, sorry to break that to everyone. Try not to get your panties in a bunch that one guy gets it out to 300+
		
Click to expand...

Cheers. Luckily largely water off a duck's back 

I just thought I could share some things I've learnt and put into practice. Bob nailed it for me when he said I had worked hard on hitting the ball better, not harder - you can pick up distance through improving technique. Someone asked to show how, I used myself as an example - fat 40 year old with a dodgy knee but with hard work (yes and using the tech wisely) has got a big increase in distance. Wasn't meant to be a 'how to thread' was more a light hearted 'dig' about the fact that talking distance appears in some quatres to be somewhat 'taboo'.

think I'm done. If anyone has gained an insight into distance off the tee, great. For those who are offended - sorry.

Pete


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## CheltenhamHacker (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Thanks, I don't like offending people but seem to have here. Glad you're not one of them 



Cheers. Luckily largely water off a duck's back 

I just thought I could share some things I've learnt and put into practice. Bob nailed it for me when he said I had worked hard on hitting the ball better, not harder - you can pick up distance through improving technique. Someone asked to show how, I used myself as an example - fat 40 year old with a dodgy knee but with hard work (yes and using the tech wisely) has got a big increase in distance. Wasn't meant to be a 'how to thread' was more a light hearted 'dig' about the fact that talking distance appears in some quatres to be somewhat 'taboo'.

think I'm done. If anyone has gained an insight into distance off the tee, great. For those who are offended - sorry.

Pete
		
Click to expand...

If I were nearer you Pete, I would take you up on that offer of a Trackman! Unfortunately it would likely show that I have a horrible out to in swing, with an open clubface, so unlikely to show much!


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

therod said:



			I wish I had that set up in my garage!!

I'd be around like a shot if I was closer, on the proviso that you made a decent cup of tea

it's possible to optimise the conditions from a launch monitor,  but not make it lie.
		
Click to expand...

give me a shout if you're ever over this way, tea and coffee is part of the deal


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			If I were nearer you Pete, I would take you up on that offer of a Trackman! Unfortunately it would likely show that I have a horrible out to in swing, with an open clubface, so unlikely to show much!
		
Click to expand...

For that you need a 'Bob'


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## Piece (Nov 18, 2014)

There's no substitute for hitting it better, which we are all striving for, no? Basic science says you hit it better, you play better, you score better. A bye product is better distance. Its not rocket science.

It's good that Nosevi gets it out there. Quite a few people do - D4S is not short off the tee  - and that's great for them. It seems to show that having your own LM will help. When Nosevi gets the bolt-on HMT, he could go longer! . Have a look at the Rick Shiels videos - very similar distances and same tech.

GC2 won't lie as you can't really 'jack it up' but the distance is optimised as it calculates distance based on measure ball data. Wind, humidity, temp, etc. doesn't get factored in (and nor should it).


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## Region3 (Nov 18, 2014)

So - Pete and Bob - what course did you play and who won?


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## garyinderry (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi, did you find a big Increase in club head speed after you improved you technique.  113mph is on the screenshot from one of your drives. That is no slouch by any means.  Definitely getting it out there.


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## Foxholer (Nov 18, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Nosevi, did you find a big Increase in club head speed after you improved you technique.  113mph is on the screenshot from one of your drives. That is no slouch by any means.  Definitely getting it out there.
		
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Slightly slower than I expected, but the use of a personal LM probably explains that - easier to optimise changes.

It's still Swing Speed that is the important variable - other factors (that Bob posted) being 'reasonable'. Between that and Centred-ness of Strike for what affects distance most - Additional Swing Speed when swinging 'under control' and C-of-S when nearer the limit of Swing Speed.


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Region3 said:



			So - Pete and Bob - what course did you play and who won? 

Click to expand...

We're halfway round the Belfry but had to save the game (too much talking and spent most of the time with Bob giving me pointers on the virtual range). I'm one shot up but have a nagging suspicion that won't last on the back nine, especially if Bob keeps succeeding in bantering me into going for long carries over water. Have an even stronger suspicion that it wouldn't last on a real course either 



garyinderry said:



			Nosevi, did you find a big Increase in club head speed after you improved you technique.  113mph is on the screenshot from one of your drives. That is no slouch by any means.  Definitely getting it out there.
		
Click to expand...

I don't have HMT which measures clubhead speed so only the ball speed is truly accurate. It's estimating club head speed by ball speed and how good it thinks the strike is (from spin etc). I ignore the clubhead speed info tbh. The ball speed hasgone up a lot though. My guess is a little is from a faster clubhead speed mostly due to technique and a lot is from getting a much better smash factor almost entirely due to technique. Hope that helps.


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Slightly slower than I expected, but the use of a personal LM probably explains that - easier to optimise changes.

It's still Swing Speed that is the important variable - other factors (that Bob posted) being 'reasonable'. Between that and Centred-ness of Strike for what affects distance most - Additional Swing Speed when swinging 'under control' and C-of-S when nearer the limit of Swing Speed.
		
Click to expand...

Agree and as I say, the ball speed is accurate, the club head speed is estimated without HMT. Agree about swing speed being a factor in pushing it out there and as you've said, maximising this (for any given individual) is also largely about technique.


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## garyinderry (Nov 18, 2014)

Was wondering what your clubhead speed was before you changed your technique.  You must not have been no slouch then either.


Do you work on hitting shaped drives too or just straight hitting?


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## Foxholer (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Agree and as I say, the ball speed is accurate, the club head speed is estimated without HMT. Agree about swing speed being a factor in pushing it out there and as you've said, maximising this (for any given individual) is also largely about technique.
		
Click to expand...

Actually, that's not what I said/meant. For 'best' distance (consistently) Optimising Smash Factor (as close to 1.50 as poss) at High (not necessarily Maximum) Swing Speed is the way. That reflects the 'hit it better not harder' approach!


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Was wondering what your clubhead speed was before you changed your technique.  You must not have been no slouch then either.


Do you work on hitting shaped drives too or just straight hitting?
		
Click to expand...

I'd only be guessing I'm afraid as I use ball speed as that's what I know for certain from my kit. Not so long ago my carry numbers were more like 240ish and often below that though and then it felt like I was hitting it harder. I wasn't I'm sure but I was certainly trying harder. Shape wise my natural shape is a slight draw but when Bob asked me to hit a cut I just about managed. A draw is easier for me though.


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## bobmac (Nov 18, 2014)

You wait till you get your new grips fitted


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Actually, that's not what I said/meant. For 'best' distance (consistently) Optimising Smash Factor (as close to 1.50 as poss) at High (not necessarily Maximum) Swing Speed is the way. That reflects the 'hit it better not harder' approach!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry I just meant a good technique helps you hit it better. I guess it also lets you hit it harder too while staying in balance. All in all I think we more or less agree


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

bobmac said:



			You wait till you get your new grips fitted 

Click to expand...

Might well be coming to speak to you about that one, Bob


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## woody69 (Nov 18, 2014)

Out of interest, what is your actual LM set up and what was the total cost?


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## Alex1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Out of interest, what is your actual LM set up and what was the total cost?
		
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Its in here Woody^^^


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## woody69 (Nov 18, 2014)

I have a Callaway X Hot driver 10.5 regular shaft. If I adjust it to be closed it increases the loft by 1 degree to 11.5. When I do this, my drives "tend" to be a bit straighter, but probably max out around 200-210. I assume though that by increasing the loft I am actually increasing the spin? Would I have more luck with actually adjusting the face to drop the loft to 9.5 in terms of distance as it's like to create less spin? 

I have only had one proper Trackman session, but my numbers on AoA were fairly consistent around -3. Obviously meaning I was hitting down, rather than up but I couldn't work out in the short session how I could actually improve that. This combined with a lower loft made for a very low ball flight and a loss of distance.

Guess I need to go down a range and experiment with the lofts to see what is better.


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## woody69 (Nov 18, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Its in here Woody^^^
		
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Sorry, I saw it was the GC2, but was interested in price etc.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Sorry, I saw it was the GC2, but was interested in price etc.

Click to expand...

Opps... Link:

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?72129-Brace-yourselves-winter-is-coming!/page2


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## woody69 (Nov 18, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Opps... Link:

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?72129-Brace-yourselves-winter-is-coming!/page2

Click to expand...

Oh right thanks... still no mention of price though. Looks like a serious bit of kit. Interested to know from the OP how he went about getting it installed etc.


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## guest100718 (Nov 18, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Oh right thanks... still no mention of price though. Looks like a serious bit of kit. Interested to know from the OP how he went about getting it installed etc.
		
Click to expand...

The GC2 unit on its own is about 6000......

That set up puts my Izzo net and Swingbyte 2 to shame!


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

woody69 said:



			Oh right thanks... still no mention of price though. Looks like a serious bit of kit. Interested to know from the OP how he went about getting it installed etc.
		
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Hi Woody. It was all self installed. Yep Paddy has the kit right - A GC2 at about Â£6k. I've got it running through Foresightsport's performance software which adds about Â£1500 (that's basically the range and a few golf courses). It's a pretty serious bit of kit, not really designed for home use. This gives an idea of who uses exactly the same kit as I've got (kind of why the heckles went up when someone said it probably just got my distances wrong - it's a very accurate bit of kit): http://www.foresightsports.com/en/clients

The Sim surround itself is what's called a Net Return Simulator series with their projector mount kit on it. Very easy to put together and packs away into a couple of duffel bags if you want to. Think it came to a little over Â£1500 or so then a bit extra for the projector mount kit and I bought it from Par2pro in Canada as they were more reasonable on shipping prices. You need at least 9 foot high ceilings they say but I was having a garage built so tweaked the plans to put the ceiling up above 11 foot to give plenty of room. http://www.thenetreturn.com/products/simulator-series

I used kid's astroturf squares for the 'turf' as they lock together and can be taken down allowing the whole thing to just be stacked in a corner or even used away from home if you want (my local golf partnership want to nick the whole set up for a show next spring) : http://www.softfloor.co.uk/astro.shtml

And lastly, as of this morning it has a Huxley golf Hux400 mat as the old mat I had wasn't great : http://www.huxleygolf.co.uk/online-store/golf-mats/hux-mat-400-detail

I bought an HD ultra short throw projector (viewsonic, forget the model) and the software runs through a laptop I already had. Other than a few cables I bought separately that's pretty much the setup. All told price was probably around Â£11k I think. Hope that helps.


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## patricks148 (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Hi Woody. It was all self installed. Yep Paddy has the kit right - A GC2 at about Â£6k. I've got it running through Foresightsport's performance software which adds about Â£1500 (that's basically the range and a few golf courses). It's a pretty serious bit of kit, not really designed for home use. This gives an idea of who uses exactly the same kit as I've got (kind of why the heckles went up when someone said it probably just got my distances wrong - it's a very accurate bit of kit): http://www.foresightsports.com/en/clients

The Sim surround itself is what's called a Net Return Simulator series with their projector mount kit on it. Very easy to put together and packs away into a couple of duffel bags if you want to. Think it came to a little over Â£1500 or so then a bit extra for the projector mount kit and I bought it from Par2pro in Canada as they were more reasonable on shipping prices. You need at least 9 foot high ceilings they say but I was having a garage built so tweaked the plans to put the ceiling up above 11 foot to give plenty of room. http://www.thenetreturn.com/products/simulator-series

I used kid's astroturf squares for the 'turf' as they lock together and can be taken down allowing the whole thing to just be stacked in a corner or even used away from home if you want (my local golf partnership want to nick the whole set up for a show next spring) : http://www.softfloor.co.uk/astro.shtml

And lastly, as of this morning it has a Huxley golf Hux400 mat as the old mat I had wasn't great : http://www.huxleygolf.co.uk/online-store/golf-mats/hux-mat-400-detail

I bought an HD ultra short throw projector (viewsonic, forget the model) and the software runs through a laptop I already had. Other than a few cables I bought separately that's pretty much the setup. All told price was probably around Â£11k I think. Hope that helps.
		
Click to expand...

I'll take 2


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## woody69 (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Hi Woody. It was all self installed. Yep Paddy has the kit right - A GC2 at about Â£6k. I've got it running through Foresightsport's performance software which adds about Â£1500 (that's basically the range and a few golf courses). It's a pretty serious bit of kit, not really designed for home use. This gives an idea of who uses exactly the same kit as I've got (kind of why the heckles went up when someone said it probably just got my distances wrong - it's a very accurate bit of kit): http://www.foresightsports.com/en/clients

The Sim surround itself is what's called a Net Return Simulator series with their projector mount kit on it. Very easy to put together and packs away into a couple of duffel bags if you want to. Think it came to a little over Â£1500 or so then a bit extra for the projector mount kit and I bought it from Par2pro in Canada as they were more reasonable on shipping prices. You need at least 9 foot high ceilings they say but I was having a garage built so tweaked the plans to put the ceiling up above 11 foot to give plenty of room. http://www.thenetreturn.com/products/simulator-series

I used kid's astroturf squares for the 'turf' as they lock together and can be taken down allowing the whole thing to just be stacked in a corner or even used away from home if you want (my local golf partnership want to nick the whole set up for a show next spring) : http://www.softfloor.co.uk/astro.shtml

And lastly, as of this morning it has a Huxley golf Hux400 mat as the old mat I had wasn't great : http://www.huxleygolf.co.uk/online-store/golf-mats/hux-mat-400-detail

I bought an HD ultra short throw projector (viewsonic, forget the model) and the software runs through a laptop I already had. Other than a few cables I bought separately that's pretty much the setup. All told price was probably around Â£11k I think. Hope that helps.
		
Click to expand...

Fantastic, thanks for the info. Certainly something to aspire to getting. Christmas is coming up soon, I might ask the wife .

Did it have to be shipped in from US/Canada? I struggled to find a UK dealer, although admittedly I didn't look in any great depth


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Foresightsports UK are the importer, you can buy from them. The only thing I had to ship was the sim enclosure because I wanted one that would pack away and the Net Return Simulator Series is actually the enclosure used by a couple of the sim manufacturers in the States. As I said, ironically it was considerably cheaper buying from Par2pro in Canada than direct from the manufacturer in the States. Thing to watch out for is ceiling height - no real way round needing a shade over 9 feet because of the way it fits together.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Damn golf mats cost a lot of money!!!


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## Piece (Nov 18, 2014)

Offerings from Foresight Sports Europe (was UK). Residential set-up looks tasty to me: 

http://www.foresightsports.com/en/products/home-starter-performance-simulation


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Piece said:



			Offerings from Foresight Sports Europe (was UK). Residential set-up looks tasty to me: 

http://www.foresightsports.com/en/products/home-starter-performance-simulation

Click to expand...

 Like that. I was in touch with the guys at Foresightsports Europe (as you say the UK importer) and said about the way I was using it - it was pretty unusual to be buying for home use when I bought mine a bit ago. They asked for some pictures of my set up when I got it together and liked it so asked where I got the enclosure. I told them 'The Net Return' in the States. 

That net that they now use in the picture is The Net Return's net. Wonder if it's a coincidence? I'm in touch with one of the guys there, will give him a bell and ask.


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Damn golf mats cost a lot of money!!!
		
Click to expand...

They do but I've got to say I can't complain too much - I bought a Huxley Golf 300 originally, allegedly 'slightly' less robust mat than the 400 but thought it was all I needed. Less than 6 months later and it's 'buckled' where I hit the ball on both sides of the mat, it won't sit flat any more. 

Got in touch with Huxley and sent a photo offering to pay the difference between the mat I had bought and their top of the line model saying that the 300 wasn't up to the job IMO. They agreed, apologised and shipped the 400 mat within 24 hours. It's far thicker and much better quality than the 300, should have gone with it in the beginning.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Hi Woody. It was all self installed. Yep Paddy has the kit right - A GC2 at about Â£6k. I've got it running through Foresightsport's performance software which adds about Â£1500 (that's basically the range and a few golf courses). It's a pretty serious bit of kit, not really designed for home use. This gives an idea of who uses exactly the same kit as I've got (kind of why the heckles went up when someone said it probably just got my distances wrong - it's a very accurate bit of kit): http://www.foresightsports.com/en/clients



The Sim surround itself is what's called a Net Return Simulator series with their projector mount kit on it. Very easy to put together and packs away into a couple of duffel bags if you want to. Think it came to a little over Â£1500 or so then a bit extra for the projector mount kit and I bought it from Par2pro in Canada as they were more reasonable on shipping prices. You need at least 9 foot high ceilings they say but I was having a garage built so tweaked the plans to put the ceiling up above 11 foot to give plenty of room. http://www.thenetreturn.com/products/simulator-series

I used kid's astroturf squares for the 'turf' as they lock together and can be taken down allowing the whole thing to just be stacked in a corner or even used away from home if you want (my local golf partnership want to nick the whole set up for a show next spring) : http://www.softfloor.co.uk/astro.shtml

And lastly, as of this morning it has a Huxley golf Hux400 mat as the old mat I had wasn't great : http://www.huxleygolf.co.uk/online-store/golf-mats/hux-mat-400-detail

I bought an HD ultra short throw projector (viewsonic, forget the model) and the software runs through a laptop I already had. Other than a few cables I bought separately that's pretty much the setup. All told price was probably around Â£11k I think. Hope that helps.
		
Click to expand...

Â£11,000 ?!? 

Blimey


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Â£11,000 ?!? 

Blimey
		
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Afraid so. Believe it or not that's pretty 'cheap' (relative term....) for the type of accuracy you get. Many of the big golf companies are ditching the radar systems in favour of the GC2. I was told that the R&A did a test recently with a GC2, the radar systems (Trackman and Flightscope) and some seriously expensive kit and found the GC2 was on par with their kit but the radar systems weren't in terms of some of the numbers (spin axis mainly I think but that throws off other numbers that are derived from it in the kit). I'm told the R&A were considering just using a GC2 in future. All second hand info, no idea if it's true. What I do know is it's spot on and that costs a bit to get at the moment.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2014)

That's a lot of money for a bit of kit for an Amatuer golfer ?!

Surely more cost effective to go to a pro every now and then


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That's a lot of money for a bit of kit for an Amatuer golfer ?!

Surely more cost effective to go to a pro every now and then
		
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Possibly for some but I now use it for about 2 hours a day, when Bob came we were on it for 4 1/2 hours. On average I was hitting the range 5 times a week for 2 hours at a time, spending maybe Â£6 on balls and a little under Â£10 on petrol to get to a decent range. Call it Â£15 a day, 5 days a week. It adds up. I also save an hour's driving a day and I'd argue that now I know how to use the numbers to improve my game I gain more on my sim than I do on a range. In fact when I go to the range I take the GC2 along most times. And it's fun to play Pebble Beach when it's 2 foot of snow outside.

Anyway, you're still right, not the most cost effective way I agree but you do gain a great deal from it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2014)

At that money you could join a couple clubs and go out and play the game on the course as opposed to your garage and play the game in true conditions


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			At that money you could join a couple clubs and go out and play the game on the course as opposed to your garage and play the game in true conditions
		
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I am a member of 2 clubs


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			I am a member of 2 clubs 

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I guess you are no longer working ?


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I guess you are no longer working ?
		
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I'm sort of between careers. It's a long story........


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## NWJocko (Nov 18, 2014)

So.....

All you need to increase distance is 11 grand, 2 hours a day and a local Pro on tap..... 

If only I'd known it was so simple


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			I'm sort of between careers. It's a long story........
		
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Well enjoy the free time

Whilst the indoor is great for ball striking etc 

You still need to practise the short game


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			So.....

All you need to increase distance is 11 grand, 2 hours a day and a local Pro on tap..... 

If only I'd known it was so simple 

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Or someone offering for you to use his Â£11k kit without spending a penny perhaps...... In fairness I've increased mine by about 40-50 yards. Perhaps others could set their sights a tad lower and still benefit a little


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well enjoy the free time

Whilst the indoor is great for ball striking etc 

You still need to practise the short game
		
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Couldn't agree more, practice that about 2 hours a day too. No substitute for time around the green.


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## NWJocko (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Or someone offering for you to use his Â£11k kit without spending a penny perhaps...... In fairness I've increased mine by about 40-50 yards. Perhaps others could set their sights a tad lower and still benefit a little 

Click to expand...

Was joking, I'm on here so obviously am a monster off the tee :whoo:

Sounds like you're living the dream, enjoy :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Couldn't agree more, practice that about 2 hours a day too. No substitute for time around the green.
		
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Certainly sounds like you have the equipment , ethic and ability to be a very good golfer - good luck


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Was joking, I'm on here so obviously am a monster off the tee :whoo:

Sounds like you're living the dream, enjoy :thup:
		
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You're not wrong and also quite a long story that I'm not going to go into on a forum 



Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly sounds like you have the equipment , ethic and ability to be a very good golfer - good luck
		
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Thanks


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

Ok, few people following this and this will be a first come, first served type deal. 

I have an old P3pro. It's basically this with no turf on the top, just a marked rubber surface but the turf can be retrofit for $40 (http://www.p3proswing.com/index.php/accessories/all-products/pro-economy.html) . 

There is the base unit, power cable, cable to connect it to a laptop or computer and the software (driving range and a couple of golf courses to play but you can add more now). It's basically the same as the Optishot in the review part of the forum so have a look at that, it tracks your club as you strike the ball and makes a pretty good guess as to where the ball would go given the club face angle, swing path, angle of attack etc. In fact it can be used with a foam ball or even no ball at all, just hit a rubber tee, I've used it in my lounge. It's not bad at telling you where the ball would go and playing the courses is just good fun.

I have no use for it at all (for obvious reasons) and my mates just shamelessly use my new setup anyway. Does anyone want it? No guarantee other than it worked last time I switched it off and the deal is you have to come and get it (I live near Lincoln). It's very used but serviceable and free to a good home.

Any takers? First post wanting it after this one gets it.....


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## virtuocity (Nov 18, 2014)

Happy to pay postage and or charity donation


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## Nosevi (Nov 18, 2014)

virtuocity said:



			Happy to pay postage and or charity donation
		
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Ok the kit is yours. Drop me a PM with your address and I'll get it posted. Will cost a bit to post though, weighs a bit. Charity donation to Help for Heroes would be my preference if you want to but no pressure to do so


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## Alex1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Edit


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## Toad (Nov 18, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Ok, few people following this and this will be a first come, first served type deal. 

I have an old P3pro. It's basically this with no turf on the top, just a marked rubber surface but the turf can be retrofit for $40 (http://www.p3proswing.com/index.php/accessories/all-products/pro-economy.html) . 

There is the base unit, power cable, cable to connect it to a laptop or computer and the software (driving range and a couple of golf courses to play but you can add more now). It's basically the same as the Optishot in the review part of the forum so have a look at that, it tracks your club as you strike the ball and makes a pretty good guess as to where the ball would go given the club face angle, swing path, angle of attack etc. In fact it can be used with a foam ball or even no ball at all, just hit a rubber tee, I've used it in my lounge. It's not bad at telling you where the ball would go and playing the courses is just good fun.

I have no use for it at all (for obvious reasons) and my mates just shamelessly use my new setup anyway. Does anyone want it? No guarantee other than it worked last time I switched it off and the deal is you have to come and get it (I live near Lincoln). It's very used but serviceable and free to a good home.

Any takers? First post wanting it after this one gets it.....
		
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Great offer mate, hope you enjoy it Virtuocity.


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## Stuey01 (Nov 18, 2014)

Endless patience nosevi!
All threads on here about distance descend into mockery and disbelief, it's sad really.

Anyway, love your gc2 set up, very jealous. I would love a set up like that.


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## Nosevi (Nov 19, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			Endless patience nosevi!
All threads on here about distance descend into mockery and disbelief, it's sad really.

Anyway, love your gc2 set up, very jealous. I would love a set up like that.
		
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I'm just a bit stubborn (learn it from my wife I think......). 

It's part of the game just like any other - some people just have no 'feel' on a green (got a mate like that) and no matter how hard they try they just struggle with it, some even have the yips and are not looking forward to the end of anchored putters one bit. My old man is a great advocate of the 'Texas Wedge' and putts from silly distances away despite having played the game for decades, his chipping is abysmal even after umpteen lessons on that aspect. People say "Just do it like this!!" but he still struggles with it. 

Others aren't getting anything like their potential distance out of the driver due to their technique. It is no different to any other aspect of the game. Obviously I can only tell someone the theory (centreness of strike, upward blow to keep sppin down, clubface square to swing path, maybe even accelerate through the ball rather than snatch from the top.....) but a decent Pro should be able to help put some of that into practice. Having Bob over was very useful as I could say what I was doing and he could translate that into the 'why' behind the numbers. Anyone in this area could do a lot worse than booking a session or 2 with him.

Disbelief - yep. Kind of thought that using the kit used in the performance institutes of the likes of Ping and Titleist as well as by several Touring Pros on a daily basis pre tournament round in order to check their distances for that day, and hitting next to a PGA Pro who knows how far he carries it to verify the kit would maybe dispel that a tad......

Anyway, 230 odd posts - hopefully if nothing else it prompted discussion, a positive thing on a forum I'd suggest. The thing to take away is that, forget the numbers involved, through working on technique I put about 20-25% on my drive. Getting a bit more distance is no substitute for a sharp short game or good course management, but it doesn't have to be - the three aren't linked they are all just aspects of the game. If distance isn't something you're bothered about that's great, no need to pay any attention to this at all. If it is hopefully you gained some ideas about how to improve it. I've had a couple of takers to come and use the GC2, anyone else wants to just drop me a PM.

Pete


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Nov 19, 2014)

I look forward to seeing you at a forum meet and smashing it out there  :thup:


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## Nosevi (Nov 19, 2014)

drive4show said:



			I look forward to seeing you at a forum meet and smashing it out there  :thup:
		
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Thanks, look forward to meeting some of you in the spring


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## garyinderry (Nov 20, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Ah yes, but the 'average golfer' has not yet read this thread 

Joking of course. But on Mark Crossfield's video (I subscribe to his channel as it happens) he says about changing things like - if they can just change small things like hitting up on the ball by 2 degrees the average golfer would pick up yardage. That's to reduce the spin and you do that by not getting ahead of the ball. That's kind of what I was getting at, obviously a pro should be able to help you do this.

just out of interest, looking at my driver swing before I was taught or knew anything about balance or the kinetic chain or timing or..... Well any of that stuff really you should be able to see a difference. I was actually fitter then as I had a serious knee injury between the two but hopefully people can see that with basically the same (or similar) physical assets you can make a bit of a difference in this area if you want to. (Anyone points out I've lost my hair a bit since then, I know - kids!)

Then (bit like Bambi on ice really)
http://youtu.be/G-szGxx5yJo

Now, the vid I posted before
http://youtu.be/UrikgGCQg9c

I know it's been said it's not easy to make that degree of a change, but just a bit of it would help. Guessing I was about 220 off the tee at the time of the first vid.
		
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Something you said struck a cord with me tonight at the range.  I tried to keep my head still and not dip into the shot. Seemed to work a treat. I was making nice crisp contact. 

Checked some old swing videos and my head drops quite a bit on the downswing. No wonder I make such deep divots. 


I tried the same with the driver but mostly concentrated on irons tonight.  This is something I will continue to work on.  

Good stuff, cheers lad! :thup:


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## Nosevi (Nov 20, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Something you said struck a cord with me tonight at the range.  I tried to keep my head still and not dip into the shot. Seemed to work a treat. I was making nice crisp contact. 

Checked some old swing videos and my head drops quite a bit on the downswing. No wonder I make such deep divots. 


I tried the same with the driver but mostly concentrated on irons tonight.  This is something I will continue to work on.  

Good stuff, cheers lad! :thup:
		
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No probs. 


One thing that *could* be the case (not saying it is but could be) is that when you see your head dipping on the downswing when looking 'down the line' it's caused by your head tilting towards the target at the top of the backswing. This causes your downswing to be steep and you can get deep divots on the irons and a lot less distance on the driver as it's nigh on impossible to hit up on it. See if you can get a vid of your swing face on and see if, when you get to the top of the backswing, a line from the top of your head to your chin is about vertical or if it leans towards the target. If your shoulder slides right on the backswing but your head stays still it can set you up for this steep dipping downswing which will rob you of distance as you get nowhere near as good a strike.


As I say, may not be the case but dipping head and deep divots it's a possibility that's perhaps worth looking at. I 'cured' it by staying more centred on the backswing - no shoulder slide so head stays vertical, better strike, more distance. You could look at it to see if it helps, may or may not


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## garyinderry (Nov 20, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			No probs. 


One thing that *could* be the case (not saying it is but could be) is that when you see your head dipping on the downswing when looking 'down the line' it's caused by your head tilting towards the target at the top of the backswing. This causes your downswing to be steep and you can get deep divots on the irons and a lot less distance on the driver as it's nigh on impossible to hit up on it. See if you can get a vid of your swing face on and see if, when you get to the top of the backswing, a line from the top of your head to your chin is about vertical or if it leans towards the target. If your shoulder slides right on the backswing but your head stays still it can set you up for this steep dipping downswing which will rob you of distance as you get nowhere near as good a strike.


As I say, may not be the case but dipping head and deep divots it's a possibility that's perhaps worth looking at. I 'cured' it by staying more centred on the backswing - no shoulder slide so head stays vertical, better strike, more distance. You could look at it to see if it helps, may or may not 

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Yeah I've know I have a pretty ingrained reverse pivot going on.  I just didn't realise how much I in turn lowering into the shot makings the club bottom out even deeper.   

My usual winter ball striking would be ball, turf, foot long deep divot.  Looking forward to Saturday now to see if I can stay more still and clip clean irons off the turf.


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## Nosevi (Nov 20, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Yeah I've know I have a pretty ingrained reverse pivot going on.  I just didn't realise how much I in turn lowering into the shot makings the club bottom out even deeper.   

My usual winter ball striking would be ball, turf, foot long deep divot.  Looking forward to Saturday now to see if I can stay more still and clip clean irons off the turf.
		
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With me it was all about keeping my weight 'inside' my right foot on my backswing. Weight more centred meant no shoulder slide and when that happened my head stayed more centred and didn't lean which in turn gave me a better strike. Like I said, may or may not work but worth a bash. Interested to hear how it goes


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## guest100718 (Nov 20, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			With me it was all about keeping my weight 'inside' my right foot on my backswing. Weight more centred meant no shoulder slide and when that happened my head stayed more centred and didn't lean which in turn gave me a better strike. Like I said, may or may not work but worth a bash. Interested to hear how it goes 

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Thats exactly what I have been working on. It feels very weird, like i wont be able to generate enough power, but the reverse is true. I have been hitting some really good shots and getting much more distance of the tee.


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## Foxholer (Nov 20, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			Thats exactly what I have been working on. It feels very weird, like i wont be able to generate enough power, but the reverse is true. I have been hitting some really good shots and getting much more distance of the tee.
		
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Lots of things in Golf are counter-intuitive, especially in relation what makes for a more efficient swing! And there's quite a bit of 'personalisation' too. I know a (particularly wealthy) guy (he has a separate Golf/Fitness studio on his nearly 2 acre Wentworth property) who 'sacked' several of the supposed 'best' coaches who wanted him to put himself in positions his body wasn't capable of! A supposed middle-of-the-road coach achieved far more by working within his limitaions!


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## SGC001 (Nov 28, 2014)

I was fortunate enough to be able to take nosevi up on his kind and generous offer to visit his home and try the machine.

Found it very useful, the machine was givings figures I'd expect for my full shots and nosevi's shots.
I had an interesting experience with part swings where I was consistently coming up short. Nosevi suggested we take it outside and the practice swing felt different even without a target, the shot was as expected. I'd been swinging differently inside with a curtailed follow through and could feel. Once I got back inside I found I was swinging as outside.
just gotta workout if I want to keep swinging as outside or in now. May even hit a ball or 2 eith my eyes shut to try snd decide now that I'm out of range of nosevi's equipment and car.

So nice to be hitting proper balls and consequently better than range practice for me, very good for fitting and experimenting. Still a bit old fashioned and like hitting proper balls outside.

Lovely bit of kit. Thanks fot the opportunity to try it.


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## Nosevi (Nov 28, 2014)

SGC001 said:



			I was fortunate enough to be able to take nosevi up on his kind and generous offer to visit his home and try the machine.

Found it very useful, the machine was givings figures I'd expect for my full shots and nosevi's shots.
I had an interesting experience with part swings where I was consistently coming up short. Nosevi suggested we take it outside and the practice swing felt different even without a target, the shot was as expected. I'd been swinging differently inside with a curtailed follow through and could feel. Once I got back inside I found I was swinging as outside.
just gotta workout if I want to keep swinging as outside or in now. May even hit a ball or 2 with my eyes shut to try and decide now that I'm out of range of nosevi's equipment and car.

So nice to be hitting proper balls and consequently better than range practice for me, very good for fitting and experimenting. Still a bit old fashioned and like hitting proper balls outside.

Lovely bit of kit. Thanks for the opportunity to try it.
		
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It's no problem at all, I'm glad you found benefit from coming over and the offer for another bash was genuine, feel free to give me a bell any time.

The situation with pitching yardages was interesting from a training perspective when using this form of kit. In essence the launch monitor read exactly the yardages that both me and SGC001 thought it should in just about every situation. In fact at one point when we were mucking about on a course he assessed his putting speed based on how fast the greens were playing and the exact feet he needed to putt the ball and put it within inches of that distance. Long shots were the same from him (more so than from me  ). Hope it's ok to say but for those that don't know, SGC001 is a PGA qualified Pro and one that still plays the game competitively when he can and to a very high level. I practice along side some very good amateurs (plus handicap guys and girls) as well as regularly seeing pros striking the ball at my club and the England Golf Academy where I get lessons. This guy knows how to strike a golf ball. ( as well as how to teach it - got some great tips along the way!)

Anyway, faced with a pitch into the screen, while I'm used to the kit and hit it as I wanted to, SGC001 changed his follow through a bit and came up short of his intended yardage every time. Only on pitches though where he was trying to control distance, not on a full swing where the yardages given by the kit were spot on. To demonstrate that the kit was accurate we took the launch monitor out to the field next to my house and he hit a pitch off a mat I have there and the launch monitor gave the exact yardage he was trying to hit (don't you just hate pros?). Going back into the sim and he could commit to the shot more and his yardages for pitches were back to bang on what he would expect. I guess it's a perception thing but once you get round it the kit behaves and you find the yardages are spot on.

The hitting proper balls thing that he mentions is important to me. I couldn't count the number of times I've hit a poor shot on a range only to hit a good one after and found myself at a loss as to whether it was just a 'dud' ball previously. In my sim I hit ProV1s every shot. That sounds dead posh but if you think about it I only need the one. I know that the ball is good, any poor shot is down to the guy holding the club. Anyone using the kit is free to use their own ball so it reacts and feels as expected. Added to that being able to see your shot pattern, replay shots, assess your dispersion and mean landing point reference your intended target (I aim a few yards right of everything now - a tad left is just where the ball ends up) makes a session on the launch monitor pretty invaluable to progressing your game. It's not a substitute for hitting off grass by any measure but it does add something that a standard range session simply can't.

Anyway, had a couple of forum members over and both seriously know their stuff. One is coming back next week which should tell you something about what you can get out of the kit. Any other takers just give me a shout, if I can make myself available at a time when you can come I will


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## turkish (Dec 2, 2014)

Rather than start a new thread as this is an old link but just watched Bubbas 424 yard drive in August!!!

I've heard of the floating heel but his is a downright stamp (something I've seen the MAMG guys say to try).... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDb_AeI-bH8

Does anyone on here actually do this with their drives? Obviously Bubba's on another planet. I'm a newbie so i'm concentrating on getting as stable a base as I can


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## Nosevi (Dec 2, 2014)

turkish said:



			Rather than start a new thread as this is an old link but just watched Bubbas 424 yard drive in August!!!

I've heard of the floating heel but his is a downright stamp (something I've seen the MAMG guys say to try).... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDb_AeI-bH8

Does anyone on here actually do this with their drives? Obviously Bubba's on another planet. I'm a newbie so i'm concentrating on getting as stable a base as I can
		
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Me - nope, I go for a stable base. I'm sure you can hit it harder with this technique but with my skill the pay off on accuracy wouldn't be worth it.


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## NorfolkShaun (Dec 2, 2014)

turkish said:



			Rather than start a new thread as this is an old link but just watched Bubbas 424 yard drive in August!!!

I've heard of the floating heel but his is a downright stamp (something I've seen the MAMG guys say to try).... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDb_AeI-bH8

Does anyone on here actually do this with their drives? Obviously Bubba's on another planet. I'm a newbie so i'm concentrating on getting as stable a base as I can
		
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Played with a guy once who done this and he hit it a long way, have tried it myself but end up all over the place.


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## Swinger (Dec 2, 2014)

I understand what you are saying and I do agree. 
A lot of golfers never get close to achieving their controlled distance potential due to lack of stability and other technique faults.

I've hit a few long shots in my time and when people have asked me how I do it I have generally come back with 'there is no reason you can't' and while some of them might be a little shorter or a little older they could still hit it further with the right time and effort. Unfortunately they are two things that a lot of people don't have in spades but if you told them it was this new miracle driver they would be tempted to part with the cash! 

I didn't have time to read everything on the thread but I like the setup you have. Fingers crossed Santa thinks I've been a good boy this year! All that plus a fixed knee!


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## richart (Dec 2, 2014)

Swinger said:



			I understand what you are saying and I do agree. 
A lot of golfers never get close to achieving their controlled distance potential due to lack of stability and other technique faults.

I've hit a few long shots in my time and when people have asked me how I do it I have generally come back with 'there is no reason you can't' and while some of them might be a little shorter or a little older they could still hit it further with the right time and effort. Unfortunately they are two things that a lot of people don't have in spades but if you told them it was this new miracle driver they would be tempted to part with the cash! 

I didn't have time to read everything on the thread but I like the setup you have. Fingers crossed Santa thinks I've been a good boy this year! All that plus a fixed knee!
		
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 You neeed more than fingers crossed for Santa to think you a have been a good boy.


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## Nosevi (Dec 2, 2014)

Swinger said:



			I understand what you are saying and I do agree. 
...............
I didn't have time to read everything on the thread but I like the setup you have. Fingers crossed Santa thinks I've been a good boy this year! All that plus a fixed knee!
		
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It is useful for working on your game, really glad I got it. In fact tomorrow I've got the 3rd forum member to have a bash and look at their numbers coming over in as many weeks. Last 2 both said they got a lot out of it.


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## Swinger (Dec 2, 2014)

richart said:



			You neeed more than fingers crossed for Santa to think you a have been a good boy.

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You got me there mate! Here hoping for a lottery win otherwise I'll be getting myself a chocolate orange!
I was hoping the bit of care in the community work I have done over the years would help make amends but still coming up short!


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## Swinger (Dec 2, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			It is useful for working on your game, really glad I got it. In fact tomorrow I've got the 3rd forum member to have a bash and look at their numbers coming over in as many weeks. Last 2 both said they got a lot out of it.
		
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That's very generous of you to invite other forum members around. I get funny looks at my club when I tell them I'm going off to play with people I met on the internet but not sure I could bring myself to invite them round my house. I'd have to hide the bodies!

Good facility to have and a great learning tool. When are you putting in the putting green and short game area?! 
I might have to move a bit closer when you do.


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## Nosevi (Dec 2, 2014)

Swinger said:



			Good facility to have and a great learning tool. When are you putting in the putting green and short game area?! 
I might have to move a bit closer when you do.
		
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Still talking to 'the boss' about an artificial putting green behind the garage that the sim is in but don't like my chances. Put a range mat in for pitching though - useful for when the ground freezes or gets boggy. Persuading her of that one was easy - bunch of divots later and I had the go ahead for the mat


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2014)

All great if people have disposable income to splash out on simulators and practise areas and pool rooms etc


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## Swinger (Dec 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All great if people have disposable income to splash out on simulators and practise areas and pool rooms etc
		
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Your ruining my illusion of all forum members being read topics and posts aloud by a butler while sat in an armchair smoking big cigars and swirling brandy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2014)

Swinger said:



			Your ruining my illusion of all forum members being read topics and posts aloud by a butler while sat in an armchair smoking big cigars and swirling brandy.
		
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I wish mate 

Robinson juice around a candle keeping warm as heating is being saved for when it gets really cold


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## Swinger (Dec 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wish mate 

Robinson juice around a candle keeping warm as heating is being saved for when it gets really cold 

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You can take some solace in the fact that he will be wet and cold out on his pitching area all winter or he'll lose his balls in the snow!


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## Nosevi (Dec 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			All great if people have disposable income to splash out on simulators and practise areas and pool rooms etc
		
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To be fair the practice area is just a mat and a lawn  

Most of the rest took a long time to save for. Was a junior officer in the military so while not poor hardly rolling in it either. Did without some things for a few years in order to be able to have what I want now and made some good decisions financially along the way (bought a house young when they were cheap etc and was paying a mortgage when most of my mates were pissing it up). Not really ashamed of making what were for me good decisions financially I'm afraid


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## Swinger (Dec 2, 2014)

Unless it's heated?!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 2, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			To be fair the practice area is just a mat and a lawn  

Most of the rest took a long time to save for. Was a junior officer in the military so while not poor hardly rolling in it either. Did without some things for a few years in order to be able to have what I want now and made some good decisions financially along the way (bought a house young when they were cheap etc and was paying a mortgage when most of my mates were pissing it up). Not really ashamed of making what were for me good decisions financially I'm afraid 

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That is all very commendable and nobody is going to have a go at you for that but what you have to remember is that there are a lot of guys on here who struggle to pay their annual subs (or can't afford to even join a club) and have to think twice about a Â£25 green fee so they are not going to be too impressed when someone starts threads about their Â£11k indoor driving net, a Ferrari and an upstairs games room.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			To be fair the practice area is just a mat and a lawn  

Most of the rest took a long time to save for. Was a *junior officer in the military *so while not poor hardly rolling in it either. Did without some things for a few years in order to be able to have what I want now and made some good decisions financially along the way (bought a house young when they were cheap etc and was paying a mortgage when most of my mates were pissing it up). Not really ashamed of making what were for me good decisions financially I'm afraid 

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Oh dear  

It is great for you that you able to afford all this facilities and pool rooms and ferraris etc just maybe not everyone can with some struggle to pay greens and Prob not meant and guess you are just proud of the simulator - just feels a bit showing off maybe


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## User20205 (Dec 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh dear  

It is great for you that you able to afford all this facilities and pool rooms and ferraris etc just maybe not everyone can with some struggle to pay greens and Prob not meant and guess you are just proud of the simulator - just feels a bit showing off maybe
		
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Think that's a bit harsh mate. Don't think he deserves that. I'd love one of those simulator thingies, and a Ferrari. Unfortunately I'm beneath the cat in the pecking order in my house, so my reality is a second hand scratching post


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2014)

therod said:



			Think that's a bit harsh mate. Don't think he deserves that. I'd love one of those simulator thingies, and a Ferrari. Unfortunately I'm beneath the cat in the pecking order in my house, so my reality is a second hand scratching post 

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As I said I'm sure it's not what is meant but does seem to come across that way with some of the posts.


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## User20205 (Dec 2, 2014)

Swinger said:



			I understand what you are saying and I do agree. 
A lot of golfers never get close to achieving their controlled distance potential due to lack of stability and other technique faults.

I've hit a few long shots in my time and when people have asked me how I do it I have generally come back with 'there is no reason you can't' and while some of them might be a little shorter or a little older they could still hit it further with the right time and effort. Unfortunately they are two things that a lot of people don't have in spades but if you told them it was this new miracle driver they would be tempted to part with the cash! 

I didn't have time to read everything on the thread but I like the setup you have. Fingers crossed Santa thinks I've been a good boy this year! All that plus a fixed knee!
		
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Hello, it's always nice to welcome a newbie onto the forum. Tell us a bit about yourself. What's your handicap, where do you play?

You say you can get it out there! I seriously doubt that. From your sig I can see you're in your 30's, age must be catching up  ......


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## guest100718 (Dec 2, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			To be fair the practice area is just a mat and a lawn  

Most of the rest took a long time to save for. Was a junior officer in the military so while not poor hardly rolling in it either. Did without some things for a few years in order to be able to have what I want now and made some good decisions financially along the way (bought a house young when they were cheap etc and was paying a mortgage when most of my mates were pissing it up). Not really ashamed of making what were for me good decisions financially I'm afraid 

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DOnt get dragged in to one of LPs petty arguements.


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## User20205 (Dec 2, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			As I said I'm sure it's not what is meant but does seem to come across that way with some of the posts.
		
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I'm just brown nosing so I can do a ferris bueller in the car, and let the monkey butler collect my errant tee shots


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 2, 2014)

therod said:



			I'm just brown nosing so I can do a ferris bueller in the car, and let the monkey butler collect my errant tee shots 

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Bueller :rofl:

Love that film


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## Nosevi (Dec 2, 2014)

drive4show said:



			That is all very commendable and nobody is going to have a go at you for that but what you have to remember is that there are a lot of guys on here who struggle to pay their annual subs (or can't afford to even join a club) and have to think twice about a Â£25 green fee so they are not going to be too impressed when someone starts threads about their Â£11k indoor driving net, a Ferrari and an upstairs games room.
		
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Fair. And I realise I am incredibly lucky to have it which is why I sent out an open invite to all forum members to come over and use it for free so maybe they can benefit from the kit as well. The car - bought as an investment. Market was clearly in a slump so I bought it for less than a mid-highish end Skoda Octavia. It paid off and prices have gone up a lot but it's still way cheaper than some of the other cars posted on that thread. It's a great car but not an expensive one (at least not when I bought it). Garage was built by a builder I know for very good rates and put far more onto the value of my property than the build price. About the only daft purchase was the pool table.

People can and will think whatever they like. I know some pretty wealthy people through the Ferrari owners' club - one bloke emailed me a couple of weeks back asking if I'd like to pop down to his in the spring for a blast in an F40, F50 and La Ferrari (I'll let you guess what my answer was). Quite a few guys I know live in what can only be described as mansions with huge grounds, I live in a 3 bedroom detached house in rural Lincolnshire, love my place though and wouldn't want to move. Most made their own money but not all. But not once do I feel bitter towards them. Why should I? They've all done well for themselves and good on them.

Maybe it was wrong to say "I've got this facility, anyone want to come and use it for free?" because you open yourself up for people being jealous or thinking you're just bragging but I did it because I know it could help people's game and I know it's something some people won't necessarily be able to do without me making the offer. Someone said they wouldn't invite total strangers round to their house, not necessarily what I would normally do either but I did it as it could be an opportunity for guys to do something they wouldn't normally do. I was the boss in my last tour and for the same reason every guy who worked for me got the opportunity to drive the Ferrari, because it's not something they would probably ever get to do otherwise. Sim wise I'm meeting with a couple of pros from my club next week as it'll be being used for free by our county players and those pushing to turn pro over the winter so that the weather doesn't disrupt their coaching and practice. Some may think "Git." because I've got it, no idea, but I'll take the chance that they'll get something out of it and be grateful. Just the way I am I'm afraid.


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## JCW (Dec 2, 2014)

Is distance embarrassing, yes only if you do not have it and need to say you are a cat 1 golfer when you are a two , Me , i am still as long as before which is average for my age


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## Nosevi (Dec 2, 2014)

guest100718 said:



			DOnt get dragged in to one of LPs petty arguements.
		
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Too late 



Liverpoolphil said:



			As I said I'm sure it's not what is meant but does seem to come across that way with some of the posts.
		
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It's ok mate, and sorry if it comes over like that. 

Love cars hence saving up for the 348 (they were about Â£19-20K when I bought her, pretty cheap for what you got). 

Personal Sim in a room big enough to be a teaching studio - bit more to it than that. Have you read the thread about 'who would you get lessons from and why?' Maybe it's bought with half an eye on the future as I already shoot what I need to get on the PGA Apprentice course, just need to wait for my handicap to drop if I choose to go that route. Possibly wasn't straight up when I said "Just out of curiosity....." in that thread. Pool table you got me........ but always wanted one. 

So maybe I invested what I had in an asset that was obviously (to anyone who knew the market) about to rise, built an addition to my house that may allow me to run a business from home in the future and in the meantime am letting others benefit from it if I can. And if it doesn't work - hey, I've increased the value of my property anyway.


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## garyinderry (Dec 3, 2014)

No need to justify yourself on here. You have showed your toys and offered people to come and play.  Fair do's! :thup:


There was a thread on here recently asking who wears the trousers?   its quite clear you do, or she also wears a lot of new shoes.  Some of these boys have to beg to get out for a game of golf!   :rofl:


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## richart (Dec 3, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			Some of these boys have to beg to get out for a game of golf!   :rofl:
		
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 Only because they value their soft dangly bits.


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## Nosevi (Dec 3, 2014)

garyinderry said:



			No need to justify yourself on here. You have showed your toys and offered people to come and play.  Fair do's! :thup:
		
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Thanks, I guess I felt that if I was coming across like that to LP then the likelihood is I was coming across to others in the same way - not my intention.

Off topic a bit and not to justify but just to show perhaps why I'm so chuffed with the new additions, both me and my wife wanted to add some value to our property rather than moving so with a combo of saving up and some money I was paid when I left the RAF (on a med discharge, injured on duty....... got through the gulf unscathed, injured in a sports event  ) we did. Have thought about going the PGA route so needed to be able to do that. Anyway here's our property a few months ago, hardly a mansion even though I like the location myself:










Note the old 'swing studio':




Anyway, got a good deal on some land from the local farmer (top bloke who sold us it for next to nothing), a hell of a lot of hard work over last winter, spring and admittedly some cash that came from the military on leaving to add to our savings and this is the property now. Actually didn't cost a lot to do in the grand scheme of things:










Can see what I meant by the size of the house next to the size of the garage, without 'mates rates' this never would have been built:










Den for my 2 young lads:







Repost but shows the rest of the land the farmer sold us, like I said for next to nothing - 6 times the size of our original plot.




So, am I chuffed with what we've achieved in a few months? Yes, to be fair, I am. Very. As a JO in the military you aren't mega rich or even close to it, not too badly off though, not complaining. But after numerous dets to hot and sand places (always save a bit when I can't spend it  ) and putting away money for a while, we pretty much transformed our property.

Not 'legitimising' my choices, just showing where it all came from.


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## Swinger (Dec 3, 2014)

therod said:



			Hello, it's always nice to welcome a newbie onto the forum. Tell us a bit about yourself. What's your handicap, where do you play?

You say you can get it out there! I seriously doubt that. From your sig I can see you're in your 30's, age must be catching up  ......  

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Thanks for the warm welcome! My name is Dave, I'm 5'2 and my driving average this year was 333 yards. 
Age is seriously catching up but not with my haggard looks unfortunately!

I see your not too far away from me so maybe we could get a game together sometime.


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## User20205 (Dec 3, 2014)

Swinger said:



			Thanks for the warm welcome! My name is Dave, I'm 5'2 and my driving average this year was 333 yards. 
Age is seriously catching up but not with my haggard looks unfortunately!

I see your not too far away from me so maybe we could get a game together sometime.
		
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Well hello dave. I'd very much like to meet up and admire your predigious length  (but there's no need to boast) I'm a member at royal Iford bridge, with a country membership at wellow so we could play either. :thup:

Before we meet, there's one thing I need to know.......are you a hairy man??


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 3, 2014)

Swinger said:



			Thanks for the warm welcome! My name is Dave, I'm 5'2 and my driving average this year was *433* yards. 
Age is seriously catching up but not with my haggard looks unfortunately!

I see your not too far away from me so maybe we could get a *room* together sometime.
		
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Fixed that for you 'Dave'


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## Swinger (Dec 3, 2014)

therod said:



			Well hello dave. I'd very much like to meet up and admire your predigious length  (but there's no need to boast) I'm a member at royal Iford bridge, with a country membership at wellow so we could play either. :thup:

Before we meet, there's one thing I need to know.......are you a hairy man??
		
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It's all business up top but there is a party down below.


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## Swinger (Dec 3, 2014)

therod said:



			Well hello dave. I'd very much like to meet up and admire your predigious length  (but there's no need to boast) I'm a member at royal Iford bridge, with a country membership at wellow so we could play either. :thup:

Before we meet, there's one thing I need to know.......are you a hairy man??
		
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Also I'm happy to meet anywhere, including one of these fine venues. I feel a bit of a connection here so I'm happy to clear my schedule and be free anytime from 11.00am today.


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## Swinger (Dec 3, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Fixed that for you 'Dave'  

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My average is 333 sadly but only due to some errant ones but you would be correct in assuming that my better shots are of this distance. I only play into the wind.


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## Alex1975 (Dec 3, 2014)

/shakes his head is disgust that someone should have to explain them self in this way.

Shame on your people.....


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## Nosevi (Dec 3, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			/shakes his head is disgust that someone should have to explain them self in this way.

Shame on your people.....
		
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Thanks Alex but no hard feeling here, honestly  Truth is I fell on my feet. The sporting 'accident' was caused by a misdiagnosis by the military docs (despite having a scan to the contrary and a full written report from a consultant which they misplaced) which put me on an intensive physio course which in turn resulted in my knee snapping in a big way a couple of weeks later (total rupture of the Patella Tendon along with associated nerve damage etc). The consultant's advice was for complete rest. Chatted to them and decided against suing, signed to the effect that it was an accident only to be told a couple of weeks later that my career was over as they deemed that I couldn't deploy overseas. Had to argue my case to stay in until my pension point but managed to persuade them and also built a case for them topping up my pension a small amount which the RAF agreed with....... then it was handed to the civil service who were .......... well they didn't agree, so I ended up having to persuade a judge after all. Not a great couple of years but hey, these things happen and as I said, kind of fell on my feet so onwards and upwards into a new career.

The point is, especially on a forum, things are often not quite what they seem. Yep, I've been very lucky but it didn't feel quite like that not so very long ago. Possibly why I'm so 'up beat' about where things are now. Sometimes people get to where they are in a way that you don't know and they wouldn't choose. 

.........None of which has the slightest thing to do with distance, embarrassment or Dave's bodily hair so I'll stop rambling on


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## bobmac (Dec 3, 2014)

I thought you'd never shut up


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 3, 2014)

Certainly was a junior officer


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 3, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			/shakes his head is disgust that someone should have to explain them self in this way.

Shame on your people.....
		
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Nobody has asked the OP to explain himself. It's just been pointed out that he is much more fortunate than a lot of people on this forum and the expression 'know your audience' would be appropriate. I don't think anyone was having a go.


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## Nosevi (Dec 3, 2014)

bobmac said:



			I thought you'd never shut up  

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Fair, although I'm surprised you (or anyone else really) read it 



Liverpoolphil said:



			Certainly was a junior officer 

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Also fair.....



drive4show said:



			Nobody has asked the OP to explain himself. It's just been pointed out that he is much more fortunate than a lot of people on this forum and the expression 'know your audience' would be appropriate. I don't think anyone was having a go.
		
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Understood :thup:


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## Nosevi (Dec 3, 2014)

drive4show said:



			N
		
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Tried to reply to your last message but you're so popular you've run out of space. But thanks, I'll look at that event later, sounds like a good plan :thup:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 3, 2014)

Nosevi said:



			Tried to reply to your last message but you're so popular you've run out of space. But thanks, I'll look at that event later, sounds like a good plan :thup:
		
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Ah ok, thanks for the heads up, I've cleared it down a bit  :thup:


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## MadAdey (Dec 4, 2014)

Swinger said:



			I've hit a few long shots in my time and when people have asked me how I do it I have generally come back with 'there is no reason you can't' and while some of them might be a little shorter or a little older they could still hit it further with the right time and effort. Unfortunately they are two things that a lot of people don't have in spades but if you told them it was this new miracle driver they would be tempted to part with the cash!
		
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I've had comments along these lines too. People have said to me things like 'you give it a good smack' and 'how do you swing that hard?'. To me this is shows a lack of understanding on how to hit it to your potential. Like has been mentioned, get a good solid base that enables you to swing at a higher speed is a good start and learn how to accelerate the club from the top, not launch at it. 

I think a lot of people would learn distance by trying to hit the driver with a half swing, to learn how to get the club back on the ball. IMO you need to learn how to move the club through the impact point, then building up to a full swing. Well that's how I learnt as a kid anyway.


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## MadAdey (Dec 4, 2014)

Nosevi.

Do not think that anyone is having a go at you and I don't think it is jealousy either, even though we would all love something like that. You made some wise decisions when you were young and now reeling the benefits. I wish I had as I was the type to spend all my time in the NAAFI bop wasting my money. But hey I always had the latest clubs and a fancy car....

But like has been mentioned, there are people out there not as fortunate as you and struggling to afford to play golf. This isn't like one of your Ferrari forums that is full of mega rich people.

But hey if I had the money I would build one too and I'm sure most would, so enjoy it and I hope you fulfil your ambition of becoming a PGA Pro, you have a great place to do lessons from.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 4, 2014)

drive4show said:



			Nobody has asked the OP to explain himself. It's just been pointed out that he is much more fortunate than a lot of people on this forum and the expression 'know your audience' would be appropriate. I don't think anyone was having a go.
		
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Speak for yourself poorboy. I saw the pictures and I was upset by what I saw, the fact that in 2014 in the UK people have to live in conditions like that, shocking.  So I told my manservant to get an appeal going so I can help less fortunate people like the OP and I would ask fellow forumers to give generously.  As you never know, one day you could be in the same position.


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