# Laying club off?



## Beezerk (Dec 11, 2016)

Hey ho, I played with Snell at windy Whitburn earlier today, on the 18th I took a few snaps and asked him to photograph me during my shot. the phone did that daft thing where it takes loads of photos quickly, looking through I can see a rather ugly laying off (I think that's the term) of the club during the backswing, it becomes apparent in photos 3, 4 and 5, photo 6 you can see the club steepen again as I come back down. 
Ignoring all the other faults please, I don't want my brain frazzled , what is causing me to kind of drop the club as I near the top of my backswing? Is it a hand thing, arm thing or some other thing?

Ta.


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## Lump (Dec 11, 2016)

IMO, doesn't look layed off at all. Looks good honestly.
If anything its just a tad short and on the way down and you're trying to get the club head back to the ball rather than swing the club.


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## Beezerk (Dec 11, 2016)

I've always been cursed with a short backswing mate, whenever I make an effort to lengthen it I feel I lack control and slice ville comes into play. I know what you mean about not swinging the club, it's kind of come on over the year.


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## Beezerk (Dec 13, 2016)

More comments welcome


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## hovis (Dec 13, 2016)

its a bad camera angle really mate.   when you set up if the camera lense has a lazer coming out of it it should be hitting your hands.   or in between your toe line and ball.   but even from that angle it doesn't look too laid off


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## Foxholer (Dec 13, 2016)

hovis said:



*its a bad camera angle really mate*.   when you set up if the camera lense has a lazer coming out of it it should be hitting your hands.   or in between your toe line and ball.   but even from that angle it doesn't look too laid off
		
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Indeed, the pic is from about 25* off 'down the line', so it's always going to look rather laid-off!

Doesn't look too bad to me - and it's what happens at impact that's really important. Hard to tell with stills though! should I mention possible early extension and casting (also difficult to tell from stills and the angle) or early release?


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## bobmac (Dec 13, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			Ignoring all the other faults please, I don't want my brain frazzled ,
		
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Foxholer said:



			should I mention possible early extension and casting (also difficult to tell from stills and the angle) or early release? 

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Does the ball start left?


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## Beezerk (Dec 13, 2016)

bobmac said:





Does the ball start left?
		
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Sometimes, this one started slightly left and kind of mini hooked but still was on the fairway.


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## bobmac (Dec 13, 2016)

Could be a number of things. A video down the line would help


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## the_coach (Dec 13, 2016)

Beezerk said:



			More comments welcome 

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hard to say from this angle but maybes a laid off some
(all the following is just speaking to a 'laid off' issue only and why can give a case of the 'lefts')

even  if only to view yourself try to shoot a 'square on' slow mo video from  dtl viewpoint with the camera/cell around hands high or higher from  directly behind the hands

then if you have an app you can load that into that allows drawing lines 
then on the set-up frame before any movement draw an overlay straight line on the shaft angle into the body

on play back look to see if the shaft when taken back is below that drawn line with the arms going more 'around' the body

often  times 'laid off' at the top is linked to taking the club back a tad too  much under plane and again that is often times linked to the arms  traveling a tad too much around the body - 
(sometimes also early hand action with the hands rolling back over come in to it in conjunction with the arms around)

laid  off some itself is not always an issue but it demands returning very  much on a similar plane to/through the ball to get ball on line to  target (example of the this to some degree is Kuchar who at 6'5"-ish is  going back just on or tad under plane and very much around his body but  then is pretty much staying on that plane approach back into impact  which is why it works)

if you can shoot the vid draw the line check the early shaft plane (hand action) and the above reason/s proves to be happening 

then  a fix would be a tad more upwards from the arms as the body pivot is  made along with passive hands - so the arm/hands triangle just moves  back more as one kinda 'feeling' - with the clubhead staying outside the  hands in that first early travel away from the ball so the shaft can  travel back slightly more on or just a tad above the drawn line so not  under plane

with the shot outcomes tending to go leftfield

 it looks (from the images taking an educated guess) as if having maybes  gone back 'under plane' and more 'around' that the downswing (pic 5 to  pic 6) might start a tad from the top by going 'over and out' some 

so  then swinging out to in a tad (right to left) through the ball with face  looking to some degrees left of target for the ball to start out that  way - depends then between the difference of the path and face angle  (also where on the face the strike is) as to the curvature and flight  that follows.


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## Jensen (Dec 13, 2016)

Depending on your swing type, ie one or two plane it's not a problem according to Jim Hardy. If you haven't already read it, buy a copy of "Plane Truth" by Jim Hardy.
He states particularly in the one plane swing that it's ok for the club to be laid off. However this may not be the issue, as you have stated you have a shortish swing, in which case the club will look laid off simply because you have NOT done a full turn.
Hardy states if the swing continued to the top then in fact it would probably not be laid off,  but even if it is is not a problem.

Get this book on your Christmas wish list it really explains in fantastic detail about the 2 golf swings and why pros can give conflicting advice


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