# The UK - Vote for our independence from Scotland



## Fade and Die (May 8, 2015)

I am heartily sick to the back teeth of whining Scots bleating on about how wonderful they think it is in their bleak, forgotten backwater of rain and granite. 

They have been provided with a level of influence in the UK far in excess of that which they deserve or have earned, and it is about time the rest of the UK was provided with an opportunity of stating, via a referendum, whether the continual drain on our resources that Scotland offers to the UK is worth retaining.

 So, do we boot them out and tell them to go invent their own currency, convince the EU of their financial stability and try to gain entry, and go on to become the worldwide engine of power and wealth they all seem convinced they have a right to be...... Or possibly become another Greece - who knows. 

Or do we put out arms around them and tell them they are just the best people in the world, living in the best country in the world, have all the best ideas and that we're sorry for exploiting them for generations, nasty old UK. 

I'm keeping it a secret how I'm voting.


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## Spuddy (May 8, 2015)

Alrighty then..... :mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (May 8, 2015)

Well this is going to be interesting 

Despite the obvious divide some are trying to create and the hankering from some for independence I still firmly believe we are a better nation working together - we are small but strong working as one 

Will always want the UK to stay as one - even if some on here try to drive you to wanting the Scottish gone


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## GreiginFife (May 8, 2015)

Jesus, my online **** detector just exploded.


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## Fade and Die (May 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well this is going to be interesting 

Despite the obvious divide some are trying to create and the hankering from some for independence I still firmly believe we are a better nation working together - we are small but strong working as one 

Will always want the UK to stay as one - even if some on here try to drive you to wanting the Scottish gone
		
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I was staunch union during the Independence referendum but there is only so many times I can be rejected!


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## c1973 (May 8, 2015)

Must try harder.


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## Fade and Die (May 8, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Must try harder. 

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Might need a bigger net?


[*=center]


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## Doon frae Troon (May 8, 2015)

New UKIP leader found already.


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## c1973 (May 8, 2015)

Fade and Die said:








Might need a bigger net?


[*=center]



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Lol. Probably not, there's one or two that'll bite I'd imagine.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 8, 2015)

I do wonder what the other countries in the UK would actually vote ?


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## Spuddy (May 8, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I do wonder what the other countries in the UK would actually vote ?
		
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I think it might depend on how the media and th English politicians put it across.  It's clear that the 'Jockalypse' had an effect on how some people voted yesterday.


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## Hacker Khan (May 8, 2015)

Hi Socket, nice alter ego there.


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## Fade and Die (May 8, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Hi Socket, nice alter ego there.
		
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Hey, Im not Socket...... these rants are all mine!


I'm just a bit embarrassed how some in this country act like Jilted boyfriends, moping around hoping she will come back! Making all sorts of unreasonable promises to try to get her back..... Well sorry mates, she doesn't love us any more, she's moved on.... Time for us too as well!

Right, i'm off to the weatherspoons... when i get back i expect the nation (forum) to have decided, then i'll get the ballot papers printed!


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## SocketRocket (May 8, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Hi Socket, nice alter ego there.
		
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If thats a joke a smiley would help, if not! go forth and multiply  

I never have and  probably never will prefer Scotland to leave the UK.   I dont like the way many Scots bleat on with their hard luck stories but I know that's not all Scots.   I guess I would have to vote for 'None of the above as my preference would be 'Allow them to remain but stop depressing everyone by not whining'


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## Andy808 (May 8, 2015)

Always said if the Scots were serious about independence they should have let us lot down south have a vote too.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 8, 2015)

Not sure why this is being trawled. They had their chance and said no. Can't see them getting another opportunity for a while so tough, like it or not we're stuck together


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## User62651 (May 8, 2015)

Fade and Die said:



			I am heartily sick to the back teeth of whining Scots bleating on about how wonderful they think it is in their bleak, forgotten backwater of rain and granite. 

They have been provided with a level of influence in the UK far in excess of that which they deserve or have earned, and it is about time the rest of the UK was provided with an opportunity of stating, via a referendum, whether the continual drain on our resources that Scotland offers to the UK is worth retaining.

 So, do we boot them out and tell them to go invent their own currency, convince the EU of their financial stability and try to gain entry, and go on to become the worldwide engine of power and wealth they all seem convinced they have a right to be...... Or possibly become another Greece - who knows. 

Or do we put out arms around them and tell them they are just the best people in the world, living in the best country in the world, have all the best ideas and that we're sorry for exploiting them for generations, nasty old UK. 

I'm keeping it a secret how I'm voting.

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Are you in Dave's new Cabinet ? Fairly offensive post pal, joke or not.:angry:


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## Val (May 8, 2015)

Another thread full of casual racism towards us Scottish


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## Hobbit (May 8, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure why this is being trawled. They had their chance and said no. Can't see them getting another opportunity for a while so tough, like it or not we're stuck together
		
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Did you misread the title Homer... its your turn to vote


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## HomerJSimpson (May 8, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Did you misread the title Homer... its your turn to vote
		
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Just bored to the back teeth with the whole subject. Probably total political overload having had it pumped out everywhere almost non-stop sine the Scottish referendum


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 8, 2015)

Well we (England?) Can't kick anyone out of the union - so your option becomes England (or EWANI?) leaving the UK?


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## bluewolf (May 8, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well we (England?) Can't kick anyone out of the union - so your option becomes England (or EWANI?) leaving the UK?
		
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I think you may be taking this post a touch too seriously.............


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 8, 2015)

Val said:



			Another thread full of casual racism towards us Scottish 

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Yeh - and permitted by the mods


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## Fade and Die (May 9, 2015)

Well I've just got back and i have to say i'm a bit disappointed with the voter apathy!.....

Think i will give it a few weeks then try again! Just like that wee bitter lady up north!


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## Fade and Die (May 9, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yeh - and permitted by the mods
		
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Seriously, are you suggesting that firstly, this thread is somehow Racist, and secondly its condoned by the Mods who by dint must be racist too??:rofl:

Maybe they have been bothered by The doorway squatting Big Issue sellers too often!


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## Snelly (May 9, 2015)

I am massively in favour of Scottish independence.  Can't wait for it.  

The English have held back the Scots as a nation for far too long.  Let them fly free, cut all ties with the rest of our fair isle and take their rightful place as a leading nation on the global stage.


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## palindromicbob (May 9, 2015)

******


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## bluewolf (May 9, 2015)

palindromicbob said:



			******
		
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Lol. I'm enjoying the irony of your response, considering the avatar to its left


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## Beezerk (May 9, 2015)

Got my first taste of Scottish bitterness towards the English in Cumbernauld yesterday, well since the GE anyway, just a snidey little comment but the ill feeling was clearly there.
Sod em, let em stay in and suffer


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## Khamelion (May 9, 2015)

GreiginFife said:



			Jesus, my online **** detector just exploded.
		
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Thankfully I wasn't having a drink when I read the above.


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## Fish (May 9, 2015)

Snelly said:



			I am massively in favour of Scottish independence.  Can't wait for it.  

The English have held back the Scots as a nation for far too long. * Let them fly free, cut all ties with the rest of our fair isle and take their rightful place as a leading nation on the global stage.*

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But not before they pay their debts, possibly an early settlement could be arranged?


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## Adi2Dassler (May 9, 2015)

Kick them out, the bloody benefit scrounging tramps.


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## hovis (May 9, 2015)

I know,  lets vote "no" for independence then 6 months later vote for snp!!!!!!

Sorry, just don't get it.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 9, 2015)

hovis said:



			I know,  lets vote "no" for independence then 6 months later vote for snp!!!!!!

Sorry, just don't get it.
		
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You will just have to think harder 
It's not rocket science.


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## Hobbit (May 9, 2015)

hovis said:



			I know,  lets vote "no" for independence then 6 months later vote for snp!!!!!!

Sorry, just don't get it.
		
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As much as I don't like SNP I've got to (grudgingly) admit they're damned good, and definitely not a one trick pony.


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## ColchesterFC (May 9, 2015)

Interesting that when 50% of the population vote for the SNP the "Scottish people have made their opinion clear" but when 56% voted against independence it wasn't a conclusive result and the promised "once in a generation" referendum has suddenly become a "well maybe we'll have another go in the next few years".


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## Doon frae Troon (May 9, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Interesting that when 50% of the population vote for the SNP the "Scottish people have made their opinion clear" but when 56% voted against independence it wasn't a conclusive result and the promised "once in a generation" referendum has suddenly become a "well maybe we'll have another go in the next few years".
		
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You will just have to think a bit harder
It is not rocket science.

[Clue, a lot happened in between those dates, some even within a few hours after]


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## NWJocko (May 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You will just have to think a bit harder
It is not rocket science.

[Clue, a lot happened in between those dates, some even within a few hours after]
		
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What happened to "the settled will of the Scottish people" Doon?

Or is it it only that when you have the upper hand


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## Spuddy (May 9, 2015)

I know plenty of folk who voted SNP and don't want independence. It wasn't in the manifesto.  If it is in next year's manifesto then they might vote for someone else if they still don't want it.


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## ColchesterFC (May 9, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			You will just have to think a bit harder
It is not rocket science.

[Clue, a lot happened in between those dates, some even within a few hours after]
		
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As you seem to have spectacularly failed to grasp my point (and I'm fairly sure it is because you are being deliberately bloody minded and obtuse) I will spell it out for you.......

*50%* vote *FOR* the SNP and that *IS* the clear will of the Scottish people.

*56%* vote *AGAINST* what the SNP want and that *ISN'T* conclusive.

CLUE -  A smaller percentage voting for what you want is seen as decisive. A larger percentage voting against what you want is not decisive. 

Or to put it another way, the SNP and the losing pro-independence campaigners are a bunch of hypocrites. Is that clear enough for you?


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## NWJocko (May 9, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			I know plenty of folk who voted SNP and don't want independence. It wasn't in the manifesto.  If it is in next year's manifesto then they might vote for someone else if they still don't want it.
		
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Agreed.

It sounds as if it is likely to be in their manifesto. Salmond was on the radio this morning and his "generation" seems to be particularly short!!

Given their position of strength just now I'd be amazed if it wasn't in their manifesto for the next Holyrood election. Pleased, but amazed.


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## Imurg (May 9, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			I know plenty of folk who voted SNP and don't want independence. It wasn't in the manifesto. .
		
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By that logic, the Greens should have taken all the stuff about saving the planet out of their manifesto, they might have got a few more votes. Or maybe UKIP should have skipped the bit in theirs about leaving Europe........after all, if its not in the manifesto.........


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## Doon frae Troon (May 10, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			As you seem to have spectacularly failed to grasp my point (and I'm fairly sure it is because you are being deliberately bloody minded and obtuse) I will spell it out for you.......

*50%* vote *FOR* the SNP and that *IS* the clear will of the Scottish people.

*56%* vote *AGAINST* what the SNP want and that *ISN'T* conclusive.

CLUE -  A smaller percentage voting for what you want is seen as decisive. A larger percentage voting against what you want is not decisive. 

Or to put it another way, the SNP and the losing pro-independence campaigners are a bunch of hypocrites. Is that clear enough for you?
		
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A referendum and a GE are two totally different things.
If 50% of England voted Tory and they won 94% of the available seats, would you view that as the settled will of the English people ?


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## Doon frae Troon (May 10, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			What happened to "the settled will of the Scottish people" Doon?

Or is it it only that when you have the upper hand 

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At Westminster it became a lot stronger. I thought that would have been obvious to everyone.


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## alexbrownmp (May 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A referendum and a GE are two totally different things.
If 50% of England voted Tory and they won 94% of the available seats, would you view that as the settled will of the English people ?
		
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ColchesterFC makes a very valid point- you are adopting the typical SNP stance of ignorance, ignoring, deflection and unsubstanciated statements.

\it is very clear on here that facts are ignored when it comes to the SNP and their followers who do appear to blindly follow from I have seen and questioned


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## Spuddy (May 10, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			ColchesterFC makes a very valid point- you are adopting the typical SNP stance of ignorance, ignoring, deflection and unsubstanciated statements.

\it is very clear on here that facts are ignored when it comes to the SNP and their followers who do appear to blindly follow from I have seen and questioned
		
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I think the point is that 50% of the vote in a multi party election is far more decisive than 55.25% in a yes/no election. They are both 'decisive' but one is more so than the other. It's not ignorant, deflecting the result or unsubstantiated.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 10, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			ColchesterFC makes a very valid point- you are adopting the typical SNP stance of ignorance, ignoring, deflection and unsubstanciated statements.

\it is very clear on here that facts are ignored when it comes to the SNP and their followers who do appear to blindly follow from I have seen and questioned
		
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Sorry but I think you are both well wide of the mark when talking about Scotland today
Where do you think the massive amount of additional SNP votes came from ?
Pro rata in England would have resulted in 3,000........yes 3,000 Tory seats.

My 90 year old lifelong Tory supporting mum voted SNP.
Hogan's 84 year old lifelong Labour supporting mum voted SNP.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 10, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yeh - and permitted by the mods
		
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Tolerated by the mods on the basis that 
1. It's not gotten out of hand ....yet
2. Nobody has reported a problem with the thread.

People are allowed their opinions and sometimes they will differ from yours
Feel free to debate, but know when to stop and agree to disagree , before it degenerates into handbags @ 5 paces
Thank you
The "Management"


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## FairwayDodger (May 10, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			I think the point is that 50% of the vote in a multi party election is far more decisive than 55.25% in a yes/no election. They are both 'decisive' but one is more so than the other. It's not ignorant, deflecting the result or unsubstantiated.
		
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Not really, all it means is that the additional options split the vote.

It's a better result for the SNP than the referendum in terms of percentage of votes cast, but a worse result in terms of %age of the electorate supporting them.

And of course, a massive landslide in terms of FPTP but that's been debated elsewhere.


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## Foxholer (May 10, 2015)

Val said:



			Another thread full of casual racism towards us Scottish 

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Nope!

Simply classic 'Pommie Whingeing' imo! An apparent national trait, so if you want to charge me with 'racism' feel free! 

I'm sure if a referendum was taken and Scots were ejected from the Union, then around 50% - possibly even more - would be quite pleased - even with the current oil price!


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## FairwayDodger (May 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Sorry but I think you are both well wide of the mark when talking about Scotland today
Where do you think the massive amount of additional SNP votes came from ?
Pro rata in England would have resulted in 3,000........yes 3,000 Tory seats.

My 90 year old lifelong Tory supporting mum voted SNP.
Hogan's 84 year old lifelong Labour supporting mum voted SNP.
		
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That'd be a good trick, winning 3000 out of 533 seats.


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## MarkA (May 10, 2015)

Val said:



			Another thread full of casual racism towards us Scottish 

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 Christ Almighty we've had to listen to months bile coming from the SNP firstly on the referendum and latterly the General Election about how dreadful Scotland is under Westminster - Just maybe it might be nice if you consider that there is another point of view that hasn't been tested, You had your shout and you wanted to stay, we were never asked if we wanted to keep you! Consider too the unexplained Tory majority was probably born on the back of Sturgeon gobbing off about her wanting to be the tail that wagged the dog and we weren't prepared to have that.Unfortunately from the Scottish point of view its just me me me! Be nice if we worked together but Sturgeon appears to have pooh poohed that idea and thank god that Labour fell short as the idea of Sturgeon and Salmond pulling Millibands strings were too horrid to contemplate.  We get a say in 2017 hopefully about Europe and no doubt you'll want off again - the thing is you actually haven't got anything to hang your hats on, the oil price should have focused your mind about how precarious the Independent Scottish idea is so button the racism thing and how about acting as part of a United Kingdom rather than as having such jaundiced view of everyone South of the Border.


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## DCB (May 10, 2015)

MarkA said:



			Christ Almighty we've had to listen to months bile coming from the SNP firstly on the referendum and latterly the General Election about how dreadful Scotland is under Westminster - Just maybe it might be nice if you consider that there is another point of view that hasn't been tested, You had your shout and you wanted to stay, we were never asked if we wanted to keep you! Consider too the unexplained Tory majority was probably born on the back of Sturgeon gobbing off about her wanting to be the tail that wagged the dog and we weren't prepared to have that.Unfortunately from the Scottish point of view its just me me me! Be nice if we worked together but Sturgeon appears to have pooh poohed that idea and thank god that Labour fell short as the idea of Sturgeon and Salmond pulling Millibands strings were too horrid to contemplate.  We get a say in 2017 hopefully about Europe and no doubt you'll want off again - the thing is you actually haven't got anything to hang your hats on, the oil price should have focused your mind about how precarious the Independent Scottish idea is so button the racism thing and how about acting as part of a United Kingdom rather than as having such jaundiced view of everyone South of the Border.
		
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Please remember not all of us up here want to split the UK nor do we all support the SNP


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## SocketRocket (May 10, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Nope!

Simply classic 'Pommie Whingeing' imo! An apparent national trait, so if you want to charge me with 'racism' feel free! 

I'm sure if a referendum was taken and Scots were ejected from the Union, then around 50% - possibly even more - would be quite pleased - even with the current oil price!
		
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Bit biased that.  No mention of Scottish whinging, how can you accuse English and not them with all the rhetoric that has been stirred up recently.

Seeing that almost 50% of Scots voted to leave the UK in the recent referendum you would expect them to be pleased if they were voted out.  

You could move to Scotland or even back to NZ if you find us so unpalatable.   Don't bite the hand that feeds you mate!


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## MarkA (May 10, 2015)

DCB said:



			Please remember not all of us up here want to split the UK nor do we all support the SNP 

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I realise that, but unfortunately theres not enough of you saying that!


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## DCB (May 10, 2015)

MarkA said:



			I realise that, but unfortunately theres not enough of you saying that!
		
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You'd be surprised. It's just that we aren't as noisy and "in your face" as some people


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## Fade and Die (May 10, 2015)

I started this Poll as a bit of fun, also so we English could have a bit of a moan about the Scots, but as usual its turned into an Hibernian whingefest!

Unfortunately that seems to be the way of the Celt, all defiant and at the same time pitiful as they honestly couldn't run a whelkstall without a bunch of sectarian infighting, bigotry and racial hatred. Sorry if this comes across as a bit strong, but I've been a reader of this forum for over a year and so many threads go this way.

 I liked Scotland when I visited, but Scotland has a Millwall syndrome... No one likes us.. We don't care..........when in reality, no one cares about Scotland.Please just stop the whining as it bores the rest of the UK senseless. I like the jocks, a funny and pleasant race when they are not having an inferiority complex moment.:thup:


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## Foxholer (May 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Bit biased that.  No mention of Scottish whinging, how can you accuse English and not them with all the rhetoric that has been stirred up recently.
		
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I'd have classified the Scottish style as more 'unsubtle outrage' rather than 'whingeing'!



SocketRocket said:



			Seeing that almost 50% of Scots voted to leave the UK in the recent referendum you would expect them to be pleased if they were voted out.  

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My point precisely! 



SocketRocket said:



			You could move to Scotland or even back to NZ if you find us so unpalatable.   Don't bite the hand that feeds you mate!
		
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Notwithstanding the fact that i did live and work in Scotland for a significant period - so believe it gives me a perspective that others (like yourself?) may not have - please point out where I stated anything about 'unpalatable'! And I don't believe our relationship is one of 'mates' either! Though there are as many ways to say that - with as many meanings - as there are of the Scottish 'Pal'! 

As 2/3rds of my working life has been in UK, I figure I've made more than my share of contributions to the economy! A few years yet before I become a (deserved) bludger from the 'investment' I've made!


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## Doon frae Troon (May 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			That'd be a good trick, winning 3000 out of 533 seats.
		
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Just to show the scale......as I think you know


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## Hobbit (May 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Just to show the scale......as I think you know

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There's the Cons with 331 seats, and Labour with 232 and then there's the SNP with 56. Its a democracy and the SNP came a very distant 3rd. You can paint any picture you like but the numbers say it all. You're a noisy mosquito buzzying around the light making lots of irritating noise... but you're nowt more than that.

And we've already got Nicola saying that the powers offered, and agreed on in November that are due before Parliament in the first session are not good enough. What do you think Parliament will do when there's already been cross party agreement? Tough! There's the democracy that you can't agree with from the referendum, nor the election.

But hey, keep beating the drum.


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## MarkA (May 10, 2015)

DCB said:



			You'd be surprised. It's just that we aren't as noisy and "in your face" as some people 

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 Its the empty vessels that make the most noise!


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## FairwayDodger (May 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Seeing that almost 50% of Scots voted to leave the UK in the recent referendum you would expect them to be pleased if they were voted out.  

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Just for the record, nowhere near 50% "of Scots" voted to leave. I think it was 37%.


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## SocketRocket (May 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Just for the record, nowhere near 50% "of Scots" voted to leave. I think it was 37%.
		
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I stand corrected :thup:


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## FairwayDodger (May 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I stand corrected :thup:
		
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:cheers:


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## Spuddy (May 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Just for the record, nowhere near 50% "of Scots" voted to leave. I think it was 37%.
		
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And for completeness, about 46% of the eligible population voted to stay so not a majority


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## NWJocko (May 10, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			And for completeness, about 46% of the eligible population voted to stay so not a majority 

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Just aswell they didn't need a majority if the registered voters then eh?! 

As Doon is trotting out his "3,000 seats" nonsense the council results of the Independence referendum were pretty resounding I seem to recall......... Was it 28 of 32 were no?


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## FairwayDodger (May 10, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			And for completeness, about 46% of the eligible population voted to stay so not a majority 

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Indeed, although I take the view (rightly or wrongly) that everyone who wants independence voted for it so I'm claiming all the apathetic for "no".


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## Spuddy (May 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Indeed, although I take the view (rightly or wrongly) that everyone who wants independence voted for it so I'm claiming all the apathetic for "no".



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thats fine.  Seeing as under 18s voted overwhelmingly Yes, I'm claiming the approx 1 million who weren't registered or were too young to vote.  By my reckoning, that would be about 2.6 million each.  I guess we could toss a coin?


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## c1973 (May 10, 2015)

The result was no. Get over it ffs!


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## Old Skier (May 10, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Tolerated by the mods on the basis that 
1. It's not gotten out of hand ....yet
2. Nobody has reported a problem with the thread.

People are allowed their opinions and sometimes they will differ from yours
Feel free to debate, but know when to stop and agree to disagree , before it degenerates into handbags @ 5 paces
Thank you
The "Management" 

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I'm more worried that our 2 resident spin doctors have yet another thread to vent their spleen. At this rate the poor darlings are never going to see daylight.


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## Old Skier (May 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Just for the record, nowhere near 50% "of Scots" voted to leave. I think it was 37%.
		
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A fair percentage of those that voted weren't Scots.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 10, 2015)

Is it just me that thinks that the folks on here who keep coming up with the 'you lost get over it' statement every second post are starting to appear a bit desperate.


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## Spuddy (May 10, 2015)

c1973 said:



			The result was no. Get over it ffs!
		
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Humour bypass alert!!!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is it just me that thinks that the folks on here who keep coming up with the 'you lost get over it' statement every second post are starting to appear a bit desperate.
		
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A bit desperate about what ?


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## FairwayDodger (May 10, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			thats fine.  Seeing as under 18s voted overwhelmingly Yes, I'm claiming the approx 1 million who weren't registered or were too young to vote.  By my reckoning, that would be about 2.6 million each.  I guess we could toss a coin?
		
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Only one thing for it....


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## Hobbit (May 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is it just me that thinks that the folks on here who keep coming up with the 'you lost get over it' statement every second post are starting to appear a bit desperate.
		
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Its just you... 

They're just fed up of your constant twisting, spinning and your reluctance to accept the result. Prefering to bring up the supposed division between England and Scotland.


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## Spuddy (May 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Only one thing for it....

View attachment 15266

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:thup:


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## SocketRocket (May 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is it just me that thinks that the folks on here who keep coming up with the 'you lost get over it' statement every second post are starting to appear a bit desperate.
		
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Yes, it's just you!   Suck it up and get over it, I shudder to think what you would be saying if the fish people held the balance of power :ears:


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## ColchesterFC (May 10, 2015)

I see that Nicola Sturgeon is saying that Cameron has to go further than the agreements that were put in place after the referendum through the Smith Commission. Well actually Nicola he doesn't "have" to do anything just because that's what you want. So how about you get back in your box and realise that you can bleat and whine all you like about how unfair it all is but your party agreed to the Smith Commission proposals and unfortunately your plan to do anything to keep the Conservatives out of government didn't work.


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## SocketRocket (May 10, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			I see that Nicola Sturgeon is saying that Cameron has to go further than the agreements that were put in place after the referendum through the Smith Commission. Well actually Nicola he doesn't "have" to do anything just because that's what you want. So how about you get back in your box and realise that you can bleat and whine all you like about how unfair it all is but your party agreed to the Smith Commission proposals and unfortunately your plan to do anything to keep the Conservatives out of government didn't work.
		
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I think under all her vitriol, bitterness and hot air she is scared witless that Scotland would have to manage their economy on the taxes she could raise in the country and without the Barnett gold to subsidise their Marxist agenda.


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## MarkA (May 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I think under all her vitriol, bitterness and hot air she is scared witless that Scotland would have to manage their economy on the taxes she could raise in the country and without the Barnett gold to subsidise their Marxist agenda.
		
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I think she's more scared about what she could manage the Scottish economy on because 5.3 Million people aren't going to pay the bills particularly with the nasty little wobble the oil market threw earlier in the year that just about shut Aberdeen down! if you remember Salmond made not one proposal about where the money was coming from, now come 2017 with the Euro referendum that'll be the next rallying point for the ginger whinger!  but Scotland has got no chance of qualifying for Euro membership on its own because lets face it the place is like Albania with decent Golf Courses.


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## 6inchcup (May 10, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			I think under all her vitriol, bitterness and hot air she is scared witless that Scotland would have to manage their economy on the taxes she could raise in the country and without the Barnett gold to subsidise their Marxist agenda.
		
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and that is whats coming,keep them in the uk but make them manage their own tax and spend,no subsidised tax payers dosh,when the voters realise paradise isnt tartan coloured the bubble will burst,as for telling our PM what he has to do,dont make me laugh,what is she going to do !!!! stop imports of DUNDEE cake.


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## Spuddy (May 10, 2015)

MarkA said:



			I think she's more scared about what she could manage the Scottish economy on because 5.3 Million people aren't going to pay the bills particularly with the nasty little wobble the oil market threw earlier in the year that just about shut Aberdeen down! if you remember Salmond made not one proposal about where the money was coming from, now come 2017 with the Euro referendum that'll be the next rallying point for the ginger whinger!  but Scotland has got no chance of qualifying for Euro membership on its own because *lets face it the place is like Albania with decent Golf Courses.*

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That's just ridiculous.  With no oil revenue (zero/zilch/nada) the GDP is still 99% of the UK as a whole (almost $38000).  Albania's is about $11000 per person


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## MarkA (May 11, 2015)

Spuddy said:



			That's just ridiculous.  With no oil revenue (zero/zilch/nada) the GDP is still 99% of the UK as a whole (almost $38000).  Albania's is about $11000 per person
		
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 I meant lawless, full of bandits and you can't understand a word they say.


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## Spuddy (May 11, 2015)

MarkA said:



			I meant lawless, full of bandits and you can't understand a word they say.
		
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I'd agree with the second one, especially at my course.


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## Foxholer (May 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Is it just me that thinks that the folks on here who keep coming up with the 'you lost get over it' statement every second post are starting to appear a bit desperate.
		
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Er...Yes!



SocketRocket said:



			I think under all her vitriol, bitterness and hot air she is scared witless that Scotland would have to manage their economy on the taxes she could raise in the country and without the Barnett gold to subsidise their Marxist agenda.
		
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Well, given that the 'Barnett gold' is supposedly equivalent to 'the taxes she could raise in the country', there doesn't seem to be any (non alcohol induced) logic in that statement! 



MarkA said:



			I think she's more scared about what she could manage the Scottish economy on because 5.3 Million people aren't going to pay the bills particularly with the nasty little wobble the oil market threw earlier in the year that just about shut Aberdeen down! if you remember Salmond made not one proposal about where the money was coming from, now come 2017 with the Euro referendum that'll be the next rallying point for the ginger whinger!  but Scotland has got no chance of qualifying for Euro membership on its own because lets face it the place is like Albania with decent Golf Courses.
		
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And there's none in that post either! Plenty of countries (European or otherwise) of 5 Million or less have quite satisfactory economies!


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## Old Skier (May 11, 2015)

My wife just cannot get over how nasty she sounds. It's always Cameron this and Cameron that never even bothering to use his first name. The world would go mad if he referred to her the same way.

HIDs not even a conservative supporter, funny what women pick up on.


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			My wife just cannot get over how nasty she sounds. It's always Cameron this and Cameron that never even bothering to use his first name. The world would go mad if he referred to her the same way.

HIDs not even a conservative supporter, funny what women pick up on.
		
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To be honest, I can't remember her ever talking about DC without using both his first and last names. I dislike her intensely but for her policies and politicking - a lot of the petty nonsense like this and downright sexism elsewhere just annoys me.


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## Slab (May 11, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			My wife just cannot get over how nasty she sounds. It's always Cameron this and Cameron that never even bothering to use his first name. The world would go mad if he referred to her the same way.

HIDs not even a conservative supporter, funny what women pick up on.
		
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FairwayDodger said:



			To be honest, I can't remember her ever talking about DC without using both his first and last names. I dislike her intensely but for her policies and politicking - a lot of the petty nonsense like this and downright sexism elsewhere just annoys me.
		
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Jees I thought we were in for a fight for a minute

Reading Old Skier's post I thought he was talking about _*his*_ wife & it was only when FD said she _disliked her intensely_ that I thought, hang on a minute that cant be right! 

Phew


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

DCB said:



			Please remember not all of us up here want to split the UK nor do we all support the SNP 

Click to expand...

Not yet, give it time.



FairwayDodger said:



			Just for the record, nowhere near 50% "of Scots" voted to leave. I think it was 37%.
		
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Indeed.Give it 15 years and the coffin dodging No majority will be gone.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (May 11, 2015)

What is actually to be gained from granting FFA/FFR to Holyrood.  

Grant it and things go well over timescales of a parliament let's say? - then that rather reinforces the SNP raison d'etre and calls for another referendum.

Grant it and things go badly wrong? - though it might put the kibosh on calls for another referendum it risks the resurrection of the Labour Party in Scotland and would no doubt initiate calls from Holyrood for support from the Westminster government - and these calls might be hard to ignore given a crashing Scottish economy could have a significant detrimental effect on the economy of the rest of the UK.

So why would the new government bother?


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Indeed.Give it 15 years and the coffin dodging No majority will be gone.
		
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This has been a really sad subtext in the aftermath of the referendum, the vilification of those who voted no. Imagine being a Paisley pensioner now and knowing your MP thinks you shouldn't be able to vote. Trouble for you is lots of "yes" voters will be 15 years older and wiser and will have changed their mind on independence. And I'll be among the new generation of despised coffin dodgers.


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			This has been a really sad subtext in the aftermath of the referendum, the vilification of those who voted no. Imagine being a Paisley pensioner now and knowing your MP thinks you shouldn't be able to vote. Trouble for you is lots of "yes" voters will be 15 years older and wiser and will have changed their mind on independence. And I'll be among the new generation of despised coffin dodgers.
		
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I'm not vilifying anyone.It's a fact that The pensioners vote really swung it last year.Once they all pass away the chances of yes winning improve.

I don't despise any age demographic, I'm just stating the obvious.Take the emotion out of it, stop being so delicate and appreciate it as being true.


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

I'm also looking for some help re: Full Fiscal Autonomy.


Does it include stuff like VAT and Excise duty? Taxation on oil and gas? Would we be allowed to vary these things?

Or is it just taxation on folk/companies?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Not yet, give it time.



Indeed.Give it 15 years and the coffin dodging No majority will be gone.
		
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What a sad post to read


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## Hobbit (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I'm not vilifying anyone.It's a fact that The pensioners vote really swung it last year.Once they all pass away the chances of yes winning improve.

I don't despise any age demographic, I'm just stating the obvious.Take the emotion out of it, stop being so delicate and appreciate it as being true.
		
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Equally, things might not go so well and there might even be a bigger "no" vote. Appreciate you're probably right if things go well but who knows...


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a sad post to read
		
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Pass the hankies, Phil's havin a moment


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Equally, things might not go so well and there might even be a bigger "no" vote. Appreciate you're probably right if things go well but who knows...
		
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Ah, but given we're under the iron rule of Cameron,Osbourne,Bojo and IDS, we'll be able to blame them.

Hurrah!


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## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I'm also looking for some help re: Full Fiscal Autonomy.


Does it include stuff like VAT and Excise duty? Taxation on oil and gas? Would we be allowed to vary these things?

Or is it just taxation on folk/companies?
		
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That is to be discussed. From what I have heard they will put restrictions on certain items so that they can not undermine the rest of the UK, eg having a lower rate of VAT or corporation tax. They may be able to increase the key taxes and keep the extra revenue but they will not be able to reduce them. What comes out in the final mix is still to be seen though.


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I'm not vilifying anyone.It's a fact that The pensioners vote really swung it last year.Once they all pass away the chances of yes winning improve.

I don't despise any age demographic, I'm just stating the obvious.Take the emotion out of it, stop being so delicate and appreciate it as being true.
		
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Perhaps you don't and using the term "coffin dodgers" was just light hearted, but it chimes with some pretty nasty stuff from nats. 

Anyway, as I said, the youngsters will grow up and many of them will change their minds. I also reckon that plenty of middle aged folk who voted "yes" this time might have a different perspective when they are pensioners and will be considering different issues when making their minds up, so I think you might be disappointed; it's not just _this_ batch of pensioners that would vote "no".

I also think this is the SNP's peak. They've manipulated the electorate in quite a masterful style but they'll never keep all their MPs "on message" and will soon be leaking support...... At least, that's what I hope!


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## Slab (May 11, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What a sad post to read
		
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Without a doubt the sad post was the one that started this thread


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is to be discussed. From what I have heard they will put restrictions on certain items so that they can not undermine the rest of the UK, eg having a lower rate of VAT or corporation tax. They may be able to increase the key taxes and keep the extra revenue but they will not be able to reduce them. What comes out in the final mix is still to be seen though.
		
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Interesting. The reason I ask is primarily down to VAT. It's never been analysed as far as I know? Never been split as companies can't be arsed with the additional work it entails.So VAT has never, as far as I know, been a factor.It's quite a chunk of cash.

And as pretty much generally agreed last year by folk who we hope would know, GDP in Scotland excluding NS revs is approx 98% of England/Wales.But that excludes VAT?

So there will be a deficit, as there is with The UK, but Scotland could address that deficit in a different way than Westminster decides to treat theirs?

I'm not for undercutting btw, think it leads to a whole load of trouble all round.


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## Lord Tyrion (May 11, 2015)

They may want to increase taxes for higher earners, bankers tax, mansion tax, those types of things to plug the gap. The SNP are fairly left wing so they will tax accordingly.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Pass the hankies, Phil's havin a moment
		
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Seems the respect the will of the Scottish people is getting less and less each day 

Forget destroying the relationship between England and Scotland the way the pro independent are acting they are going to destroy inside their own country as well


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## Paul_Stewart (May 11, 2015)

A week is a long time in politics.  Right now, Sturgeon and the SNP are flavour of the month but they have no real power in Parliament.   David Cameron and the Conservative majority Government can just ignore them no matter how many times she jumps up and down and stamps her feet.      Then as other people have suggested on this thread, devolve some of the financial powers and take away their safety net.   Their left-wing "let's spend everyone else's money" policy will soon fall over and their day in the sun will be over.  They had their referendum on independence and lost.


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Seems the respect the will of the Scottish people is getting less and less each day 

Forget destroying the relationship between England and Scotland the way the pro independent are acting they are going to destroy inside their own country as well
		
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Good times! 

Sage words, Phil Kissinger, sage words.


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## MarkA (May 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Perhaps you don't and using the term "coffin dodgers" was just light hearted, but it chimes with some pretty nasty stuff from nats. 

Anyway, as I said, the youngsters will grow up and many of them will change their minds. I also reckon that plenty of middle aged folk who voted "yes" this time might have a different perspective when they are pensioners and will be considering different issues when making their minds up, so I think you might be disappointed; it's not just _this_ batch of pensioners that would vote "no".

I also think this is the SNP's peak. They've manipulated the electorate in quite a masterful style but they'll never keep all their MPs "on message" and will soon be leaking support...... At least, that's what I hope! 

Click to expand...

You'll get a much better picture at the next General Election. The SNP have rode the wave of Nationalism to achieve a fantastic result for them . But whether they can deliver the Scottish Electorate's expectations is another thing entirely.  Not being funny but to pick just one glaring example can you really expect a 20 year old student to deliver a constituency what it needs from an MP when you have no life experience?


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

Paul_Stewart said:



			A week is a long time in politics.  Right now, Sturgeon and the SNP are flavour of the month but they have no real power in Parliament.   David Cameron and the Conservative majority Government can just ignore them no matter how many times she jumps up and down and stamps her feet.      Then as other people have suggested on this thread, devolve some of the financial powers and take away their safety net.   Their left-wing "let's spend everyone else's money" policy will soon fall over and their day in the sun will be over.  They had their referendum on independence and lost.
		
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Just so I can be clear on your suggestion:





			devolve some of the financial powers and take away their safety net.
		
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What would you bequeath to Scotland, and what's the safety net? You are obviously really clued up on this given past contribution and insights, so I'm looking forward to your guidance.


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## Hobbit (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Interesting. The reason I ask is primarily down to VAT. It's never been analysed as far as I know? Never been split as companies can't be arsed with the additional work it entails.So VAT has never, as far as I know, been a factor.It's quite a chunk of cash.

And as pretty much generally agreed last year by folk who we hope would know, GDP in Scotland excluding NS revs is approx 98% of England/Wales.But that excludes VAT?

So there will be a deficit, as there is with The UK, but Scotland could address that deficit in a different way than Westminster decides to treat theirs?

I'm not for undercutting btw, think it leads to a whole load of trouble all round.
		
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If the figures are accurate, and Scotland's budget deficit is Â£7 billion, I wonder how big a % that is compared to the UK's deficit. It may well that Scotland has budgeted better, I genuinely don't know. But if it isn't, can Scotland actually afford a Â£7bill deficit, or are they expecting the safety net of the rest of the UK to cover that?


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			If the figures are accurate, and Scotland's budget deficit is Â£7 billion, I wonder how big a % that is compared to the UK's deficit. It may well that Scotland has budgeted better, I genuinely don't know. But if it isn't, can Scotland actually afford a Â£7bill deficit, or are they expecting the safety net of the rest of the UK to cover that?
		
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A quick scan of the internet suggests UK debt deficit/population is Â£76 billion-64 million compared to the predicted Scotland of Â£7 billion to 5 million, so not much in it?

But it brings me back to things like VAT/Excise duty...I'm firmly of the belief that both of those sources are higher than the % share, but it's nothing more than a gut thing.

Sturgeon has her own ideas of how to tackle the deficit, it's different to the tory one or even Labour.


And here's another thing about Full Fiscal Autonomy.

Scotland would ( rightly) be obliged to help fund the armed services on a % basis of population.We're about 9 % of the population so 9% of the DoD funds.But what about Trident? Would Scotland be obliged to pick up 9% of that? We've just elected ( over 50% of us) a party opposed, so no chance that would be accepted.What if we get into another war? 

Also, full fiscal autonomy requires borrowing.What do we borrow against? Do we get 9% of the gold reserves?


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## DCB (May 11, 2015)

I'll give you an example of how impotent the opposition benches make an MP. We had a major issue with an existing landfill which was coming to the end of it's life cycle. Suddenly an extension was requested and an application to extend the size of the place was also submitted. Granted, planning is a local matter, but as this was contentious site to start with, letters to MPs and meetings with MPs at their local surgery were all high on our to do list. Bottom line was that there was nothing our local MP could do.

Run forward a year and a change of Government and guess what, a change of bench to the Government benches meant all the difference. Same MP, same constituency, different benches.

PS.we did beat the landfill in the end


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## Doon frae Troon (May 11, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			If the figures are accurate, and Scotland's budget deficit is Â£7 billion, I wonder how big a % that is compared to the UK's deficit. It may well that Scotland has budgeted better, I genuinely don't know. But if it isn't, can Scotland actually afford a Â£7bill deficit, or are they expecting the safety net of the rest of the UK to cover that?
		
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I do not think there is much in it TBH.

The SNP have run a very tight ship on the economy for the last 7 years, even been accused of underspending on some budgets.
Major projects like third Forth bridge and Commonwealth Games etc seem to be delivered on time and under budget.
[Trams were Edinburgh Cooncil disaster.]

The only local issue I would complain about is the state of our roads, very happy with everything else.
Any cuts imposed seem to have been sympathetic/sensible.
Where I live we seem to be thriving, lots of new expensive property being built, even our local town high street seems to be doing better than most.


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			[Trams were Edinburgh Cooncil disaster.]
		
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Several of the responsible cooncilers  are now SNP MPs.....


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Several of the responsible cooncilers  are now SNP MPs.....
		
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Which ones?

You'll know that The SNPs manifesto in 2007 included binning the whole tram proposal but couldn't get it passed as a minority govt...


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

And to add:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/city-chiefs-give-go-ahead-to-163-498m-tram-line-1-1345855


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Which ones?

You'll know that The SNPs manifesto in 2007 included binning the whole tram proposal but couldn't get it passed as a minority govt...
		
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Deirdre Brock is my MP. Don't know the name or constituency, but a guy I golfed with said his new MP was one as well. 

Yeah, I do remember that now you mention it.


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			And to add:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/city-chiefs-give-go-ahead-to-163-498m-tram-line-1-1345855

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I stand corrected, having lumped all edinburgh councillors in together. Plenty of other debacles to blame them for though!


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I stand corrected, having lumped all edinburgh councillors in together. Plenty of other debacles to blame them for though! 

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With regards to The SNP in govt, there's really not that much. Police Scotland and named adult for children are insane, but them apart, not many 'debacles' spring to mind?

With regard to Edinburgh council, something must happen to them once they're elected.A more useless collective you'll never find.


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			With regards to The SNP in govt, there's really not that much. Police Scotland and named adult for children are insane, but them apart, not many 'debacles' spring to mind?

With regard to Edinburgh council, something must happen to them once they're elected.A more useless collective you'll never find.
		
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Yeah, it was council debacles I was referring to! 

I feel slightly better about my new MP, thanks to you. Found an article she wrote in the Evening News about the trams. OK, it was when the SNP were u-turning and supporting taking them to York Place instead of finishing at Haymarket... but I agreed with that decision at the time. If we were forced to get the trams there was no point if they didn't come all the way into town.

Now just need to find her stance on the property conservation department and 20 mph speed limits.....


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Yeah, it was council debacles I was referring to! 

I feel slightly better about my new MP, thanks to you. Found an article she wrote in the Evening News about the trams. OK, it was when the SNP were u-turning and supporting taking them to York Place instead of finishing at Haymarket... but I agreed with that decision at the time. If we were forced to get the trams there was no point if they didn't come all the way into town.

Now just need to find her stance on the property conservation department and 20 mph speed limits.....
		
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Mark Lazarowicz is a decent man with good morals and has served Leith well.He's a gentleman and worse folk will still be heading to Westminster.But he got caught out by simply being a Labour MP, a toxic brand, especially in Leith nowadays.


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## alexbrownmp (May 11, 2015)

Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for full fiscal autonomy- but it will take years she says. Yet if YES won in September they would have the same within 18 mths.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/nicola-sturgeon-tax-powers-must-be-priority-1-3768804

She also claims the GE was nothing to do with a vote for independence- Mr Salmond appears to disagree
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...-hails-staging-post-to-independence-1-3768567


I think she has to be careful what she wishes for.


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			Mark Lazarowicz is a decent man with good morals and has served Leith well.He's a gentleman and worse folk will still be heading to Westminster.But he got caught out by simply being a Labour MP, a toxic brand, especially in Leith nowadays.
		
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I agree. He'll be missed, I think, but I need to keep an open mind as to how Ms Brock balances her constituency responsibilities with her party commitments.


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## FairwayDodger (May 11, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for full fiscal autonomy- but it will take years she says. Yet if YES won in September they would have the same within 18 mths.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/nicola-sturgeon-tax-powers-must-be-priority-1-3768804

She also claims the GE was nothing to do with a vote for independence- Mr Salmond appears to disagree
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...-hails-staging-post-to-independence-1-3768567


I think she has to be careful what she wishes for.
		
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It may sound a bit counter intuitive but I actually think FFA is more complicated than independence so can understand that it might take longer to sort out. I always felt 18 months for independence was a ridiculously ambitious timetable.

Not sure there's a real mandate for FFA, however, so I'm a bit surprised it seems to be so firmly on the agenda.

As for Salmond, he's just the tip of the iceberg. NS has a real challenge keeping her MPs on message, I expect some rather awkward outbursts before too long....


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## MegaSteve (May 11, 2015)

Was that one of the new SNP members I saw having a 'Bernie Ecclestone' moment when arriving at Westminster earlier...


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## alexbrownmp (May 11, 2015)

MegaSteve said:



			Was that one of the new SNP members I saw having a 'Bernie Ecclestone' moment when arriving at Westminster earlier...
		
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you will need to expand for some of us ensconced in our local office


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## MegaSteve (May 11, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			you will need to expand for some of us ensconced in our local office
		
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Appeared to be having a problem with a revolving door... 

I am sure his predicament will inevitably be aired on the various social media web-sites...


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## c1973 (May 11, 2015)

alexbrownmp said:



			Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for full fiscal autonomy- but it will take years she says. *Yet if YES won in September they would have the same within 18 mths.*
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/nicola-sturgeon-tax-powers-must-be-priority-1-3768804

She also claims the GE was nothing to do with a vote for independence- Mr Salmond appears to disagree
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...-hails-staging-post-to-independence-1-3768567


I think she has to be careful what she wishes for.
		
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Hmmmm, funily enough the arse hadn't fell out of the oil prices when that particular claim was made. 




By the way, as for keeping the snp MPs on message, I may be wrong (and stand corrected if so) but didn't they pass a ruling at their annual shindig stating that MPs/MSPs can be kicked straight out the party if they 'go off page'?  Pretty sure they did.


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

I see gloating about oil prices never goes out of fashion down the golf club. I sure you all know Scottish gdp was about 95% of UK gdp excluding oil revs, and that until next year,the price in relation to any Indy Scotland is irrelevant.

That point about SNP MPs towing the party line is correct


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## c1973 (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I see gloating about oil prices never goes out of fashion down the golf club. I sure you all know Scottish gdp was about 95% of UK gdp excluding oil revs, and that until next year,the price in relation to any Indy Scotland is irrelevant.

*That point about SNP MPs towing the party line is correct*

Click to expand...

*
*


Thought so. 
Police unified under one (political appointee) person, check, dissention in the ranks outlawed, check, rise in nationalist socialism, check, leader wae a dodgy hair do, check.............christ they'll all be wearing broon shirts tae the parliament next.  'Night of the long skean dhu' indeed.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 11, 2015)

c1973 said:



			[/B]


Thought so. 
Police unified under one (political appointee) person, check, dissention in the ranks outlawed, check, rise in nationalist socialism, check, leader wae a dodgy hair do, check.............christ they'll all be wearing broon shirts tae the parliament next.  'Night of the long skean dhu' indeed. 

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You forgot trains running on time and mass public support demonstrations.:lol:


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## Adi2Dassler (May 11, 2015)

c1973 said:



			[/B]


Thought so. 
Police unified under one (political appointee) person, check, dissention in the ranks outlawed, check, rise in nationalist socialism, check, leader wae a dodgy hair do, check.............christ they'll all be wearing broon shirts tae the parliament next.  'Night of the long skean dhu' indeed. 

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I thought that was poor to be honest. I know he's fighting demons, and I've defended him on here, but he showed a lack of class there and it's the right time for him to leave public office and fight his fight


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## c1973 (May 11, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			I thought that was poor to be honest. I know he's fighting demons, and I've defended him on here, but he showed a lack of class there and it's the right time for him to leave public office and fight his fight
		
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I did wonder if he was in his cups. I do like the guy though (as politicians go).


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## Doon frae Troon (May 12, 2015)

I see the new government has just poured Â£7m down the drain by appointing a Scottish minister.
So much for austerity.
I heard on the QT that the interview stage was quite brutal.

Even funnier thing is that Labour have appointed a shadow Scottish minister.


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## SocketRocket (May 12, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I see the new government has just poured Â£7m down the drain by appointing a Scottish minister.
So much for austerity.
I heard on the QT that the interview stage was quite brutal.

Even funnier thing is that Labour have appointed a shadow Scottish minister.
		
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Would it be preferable in Scotland if there were no Ministerial representation?   There have always been Secretaries for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.


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## Adi2Dassler (May 12, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Would it be preferable in Scotland if there were no Ministerial representation?   There have always been Secretaries for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
		
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It's more ceremonial than anything else now in Scotland I think? I'm not even sure what ceremonies!

I'm not sure it merits St.Andrews house and all the additional things that go with it now though.

#
EDIT
Well there you go. I never knew St. Andrews house was no longer part of Scotland Office, they're in a small gaff in Melville Crescent! That's where my dad lives, I'm gonna have a wee looksee tomorrow.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 12, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Would it be preferable in Scotland if there were no Ministerial representation?   There have always been Secretaries for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
		
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Well if the last government was anything to go by they seemed to be working against Scotland rather than for them.
God knows what they will do this time without the Lib/Dem brakes.


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## Doon frae Troon (May 12, 2015)

Adi2Dassler said:



			It's more ceremonial than anything else now in Scotland I think? I'm not even sure what ceremonies!/QUOTE]

They get to shake hands with the Prince of Wales at the airport when he flies up to kill grouse and deer.
		
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