# Simple Question Regarding Cancelled Golf Break



## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

Booked through Your Golf Travel, 3 night break to Portugal cancelled this week, are we legally entitled to a refund?

Yes or No?


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## JamesR (Mar 18, 2020)

Who cancelled, you or them?
Is it in government orders, ie borders closed?


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Who cancelled, you or them?
Is it in government orders, ie borders closed?
		
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Jet2 flights to Faro were cancelled.


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## JamesR (Mar 18, 2020)

Did you have insurance?


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## happyhacker (Mar 18, 2020)

Did you receive an ATOL certificate when you booked? If so, then I believe you are covered and should get a full refund.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

JamesR said:



			Did you have insurance?
		
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Yes I have insurance and can go down that route if necessary, but am asking why the Travel Operator is not doing the right thing legally?


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

happyhacker said:



			Did you receive an ATOL certificate when you booked? If so, then I believe you are covered and should get a full refund.
		
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Yes, it states:

"You are protected from when you were given this certificate to the end of your trip. If stops trading, the passengers named above will either: 1. take and complete their trip; or 2. receive a refund. "

But they have not gone bust and are still trading!


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## Mel Smooth (Mar 18, 2020)

My wife was due to spend a couple of nights in Benidorm at the weekend. (Sat & Sun). She cancelled herself as the lockdown was about to kick in - she had paid half the fee for the hotel.


The booking agent have refunded the balance this morning at their own discretion.

I suspect you will get your money back, or an offer of an alternative trip, but it might take time to process.
Please remember the travel industry will be crippled by this virus, and businesses will go under. If people are willing to defer their travel until a later date, that will be of huge help to all these companies - and remember, there is a knock on effect even down to the ladies that clean your appartments or the greenkeepers on the course.


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## Diamond (Mar 18, 2020)

I was going the Euros in Spain (Bilbao), UEFA have cancelled.  They will offer full refund on the tickets.  I have my deposit back from the AirBnB and Hertz hire car are refunding.
The only ones that wont refund is Easyjet £624 for 2 people return.  However I have premium single trip travel insurance and made my claim this morning.  Based on the fact the attraction (EUROS) I was attending has been cancelled hopefully the insurance company will cover the cost of the flights.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

Mel Smooth said:



			My wife was due to spend a couple of nights in Benidorm at the weekend. (Sat & Sun). She cancelled herself as the lockdown was about to kick in - she had paid half the fee for the hotel.


The booking agent have refunded the balance this morning at their own discretion.

I suspect you will get your money back, or an offer of an alternative trip, but it might take time to process.
Please remember the travel industry will be crippled by this virus, and businesses will go under. If people are willing to defer their travel until a later date, that will be of huge help to all these companies - and remember, there is a knock on effect even down to the ladies that clean your appartments or the greenkeepers on the course.
		
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The lad who has sorted the trip has spoken to them 4 times and they are refusing to give a refund, each time saying the best they can do is offer a credit note. That's fine, but not if it's against the law!
He's just copied me in to an email he's sent them with all the evidence he's gathered from the Web saying how a refund should be offered if the alternative trip is not suitable and a credit note is not acceptable.

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****

I appreciate things are going to be difficult for them but I cannot afford to be £700 out of pocket!


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## Mel Smooth (Mar 18, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			The lad who has sorted the trip has spoken to them 4 times and they are refusing to give a refund, each time saying the best they can do is offer a credit note. That's fine, but not if it's against the law!
He's just copied me in to an email he's sent them with all the evidence he's gathered from the Web saying how a refund should be offered if the alternative trip is not suitable and a credit note is not acceptable.

Just got to wait to see what they say, if it's another "No refund" then I'll be ringing them myself and never using YGT again.

I appreciate things are going to be difficult for them but I cannot afford to be £700 out of pocket!
		
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There's a good chance you might not have the option of using them again. Fair enough though, I don't know about your legal standpoint, but if you don't want to re-arrange the trip and they are obliged to refund, then they should.


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## chrisd (Mar 18, 2020)

Generally I would never accept a credit note for any transaction as I believe this can change your consumer rights. Also bare in mind your rights if you paid by credit card as you can usually claim from them if you dont get what you paid for


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Generally I would never accept a credit note for any transaction as I believe this can change your consumer rights. Also bare in mind your rights if you paid by credit card as you can usually claim from them if you dont get what you paid for
		
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Unfortunately the guy organising paid on his debit card!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Unfortunately the guy organising paid on his debit card!
		
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I suggest he speaks to his bank, I'm certain( could be wrong but I never have been😁) there was change a while back where payments via DC are protected the same way as CC. 

As cash transactions are becoming rare DC should be protected.


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## DanFST (Mar 18, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I suggest he speaks to his bank, I'm certain( could be wrong but I never have been😁) there was change a while back where payments via DC are protected the same way as CC.

As cash transactions are becoming rare DC should be protected.
		
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Unfortunately s75 protection is only available on credit.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 18, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Unfortunately s75 protection is only available on credit.
		
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I'm pretty sure banks can do a chargeback and other stuff, it's down to the type of current account iirc. 

If nothing can be done then this needs to be looked at moving forward as we're becoming predominantly a cashless society.


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## Old Skier (Mar 18, 2020)

Where do you stand if the golf holiday was with an ABTA member.


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## Old Skier (Mar 18, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Generally I would never accept a credit note for any transaction as I believe this can change your consumer rights. Also bare in mind your rights if you paid by credit card as you can usually claim from them if you dont get what you paid for
		
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Credit notes are a dangerous way to go as if things go really bad the company may go bust.


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## GB72 (Mar 18, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Credit notes are a dangerous way to go as if things go really bad the company may go bust.
		
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Yep, I would be wary of credit notes. Companies like this are going to struggle massively over the next few months and that credit note may prove useless.


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## peld (Mar 18, 2020)

Abta is in the event a company goes bust, not in the cases we have.
Crucially, did you book the jet2 flights separately from the YGT holiday?
if so use your insurance. Portugal is still open so it isn’t really their issue yet. It’s like when you miss a flight connection but it wasn’t on the same ticket so you still lose part of your journey.

I’d accept their offer of a reschedule as they are being fair.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

peld said:



			Abta is in the event a company goes bust, not in the cases we have.
Crucially, did you book the jet2 flights separately from the YGT holiday?
if so use your insurance. Portugal is still open so it isn’t really their issue yet. It’s like when you miss a flight connection but it wasn’t on the same ticket so you still lose part of your journey.

I’d accept their offer of a reschedule as they are being fair.
		
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Flights, transfers, hotel and golf was all booked through YGT.

Regardless of what they are offering re: alternative dates later in the year or credit notes. I just want to know if legally we're allowed to ask for our money back! If not then I'll have to go through my travel insurance to reclaim the money lost as our group are unlikely to all be available to travel together again!


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## DanFST (Mar 18, 2020)

If flights have been put through as a package, you should be in luck.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

YGT Terms and conditions , section 9 suggests to me they should offer a refund but it's all in legal jargon!

https://www.yourgolftravel.com/terms-and-conditions


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

DanFST said:



			If flights have been put through as a package, you should be in luck. 

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***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## DanFST (Mar 18, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			You'd think but they are refusing to give us our money back!!!!
		
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Then ask them how the are arranging to get you there for your hotel booking. (I imagine they can't).


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

DanFST said:



			Then ask them how the are arranging to get you there for your hotel booking. (I imagine they can't).
		
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They accept that, and to compensate us are offering a credit note, the trouble is I can't see us all being able to spend such a big amount of money in the foreseeable future on golf breaks! We are all unlikely to be available at the same time again!


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## DanFST (Mar 18, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			They accept that, and to compensate us are offering a credit note, the trouble is I can't see us all being able to spend such a big amount of money in the foreseeable future on golf breaks! We are all unlikely to be available at the same time again!
		
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You're might be covered by ABTA 

https://www.abta.com/help-and-compl...ights-been-cancelled-what-will-happen-rest-my

Edit: I'm not actually sure.


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## chrisd (Mar 18, 2020)

My understanding is that if a business puts together the whole package ie flights, hotels and golf then they are a travel agent, need to be ABTA registered and must give a full refund


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## peld (Mar 18, 2020)

What does your atol certificate say? If it’s single contract you should  be in luck.

5.5 If your Package includes a flight, we will issue you with an ATOL Certificate. This will state that it is for a "Single Contract Package" when you have booked a Single Contract Package with us, or alternatively it will state "Multi Contract Package" for this type of booking


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

ATOL Certificate This confirms that your money is protected by the ATOL scheme if your travel company collapses.

This certificate sets out how the ATOL scheme will protect the people named on it for the parts of their trip listed below.

This is an important document. Make sure that you take it with you when you travel. Copyright UK Civil Aviation Authority.

The ATOL Logo is a registered trade mark. Who is protected? Number of passengers: What is protected?

You can find more detailed information on your booking, including price, on the confirmation you will receive from Who is protecting your trip?

Your protection You are protected from when you were given this certificate to the end of your trip.

If stops trading, the passengers named above will either:

1. take and complete their trip; or

2. receive a refund. Your protection depends on the terms of the ATOL scheme and the specifics of the ATOL holder failure (available at www.atol.org.uk). If stops trading, you must follow the instructions at www.atol.org.uk (where there will be details of repatriation arrangements, and information on how people can claim their money back) or you can call (+44) 333 103 6350. Unique reference number:

Date of issue: ATOL Certificate Issuer: ATOL number: Package (Multi-contract) By issuing this ATOL Certificate, under Regulation 17 of the Civil Aviation (Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing) Regulations 2012 (as amended), confirms that the trip to which it applies is sold in line with the ATOL held by the organiser named above.

The ATOL scheme is run by the Civil Aviation Authority and paid for by the Air Travel Trust. To see what that is and what you can expect, together with full information on its terms and conditions go to www.atol.org.uk.

As well as the protection of the ATOL scheme, you have protection under the Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations.

For more information see www.direct.gov.uk in the Travel and Transport section. 7 301787 2020-01-14

Your Golf Travel Ltd 9851 Package holiday to Portugal for 4 night(s) Your Golf Travel Ltd Your Golf Travel Ltd (9851)

Your Golf Travel Ltd Your Golf Travel Ltd Your Golf Travel Ltd ATOL Certificate

This is an important document.

Make sure that you take it with you when you travel. Copyright UK Civil Aviation Authority. The ATOL Logo is a registered trade mark.

Page 2 of Parts of the trip Details Your provider & booking reference Price Flight Accommodation Car hire Other Total ATOL protected cost Unique reference number: Date of issue: ATOL Certificate Issuer: ATOL number: This confirms that your money is protected by the ATOL scheme if your travel company collapses.

This certificate sets out how the ATOL scheme will protect the people named on it for the parts of their trip listed below.

Package (Multi-contract) By issuing this ATOL Certificate, under Regulation 17 of the Civil Aviation (Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing) Regulations 2012 (as amended), confirms that the trip to which it applies is sold in line with the ATOL held by the organiser named above.

The ATOL scheme is run by the Civil Aviation Authority and paid for by the Air Travel Trust. To see what that is and what you can expect, together with full information on its terms and conditions go to www.atol.org.uk.

As well as the protection of the ATOL scheme, you have protection under the Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations.

For more information see www.direct.gov.uk in the Travel and Transport section. 2020-01-14 £ 2443.00 301787 Transfer from Faro Airport to Dom Pedro Vilamoura 1 round of golf at Laguna Course, Vilamoura (Dom Pedro Golf) 1 round of golf at Old Course, Vilamoura (Dom Pedro Golf) 1 round of golf at Victoria Course, Vilamoura (Dom Pedro Golf) Jet2 (GBP) Your Golf Travel Ltd £ 0.00 9851 Destination Services Portugal Laguna Course, Vilamoura (Dom Pedro Golf) Birmingham, United Kingdom (BHX) to Faro, Portugal (FAO) on 2020-03-20 Faro, Portugal (FAO) to Birmingham, United Kingdom (BHX) on 2020-03-24 £ 4963.00 4 nights at Dom Pedro Vilamoura Resort, Portugal Dom Pedro Vilamoura Resort £ 1040.00 £ 1340.00 ATOL Certificate This is an important document.

Make sure that you take it with you when you travel.

Copyright UK Civil Aviation Authority. The ATOL Logo is a registered trade mark. Page of Unique reference number: Date of issue: ATOL Certificate Issuer: ATOL number: This confirms that your money is protected by the ATOL scheme if your travel company collapses.

This certificate sets out how the ATOL scheme will protect the people named on it for the parts of their trip listed below.

By issuing this ATOL Certificate, under Regulation 17 of the Civil Aviation (Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing) Regulations 2012 (as amended), confirms that the trip to which it applies is sold in line with the ATOL held by the organiser named above.

The ATOL scheme is run by the Civil Aviation Authority and paid for by the Air Travel Trust. To see what that is and what you can expect, together with full information on its terms and conditions go to www.atol.org.uk.

As well as the protection of the ATOL scheme, you have protection under the Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations. For more information see www.direct.gov.uk in the Travel and Transport section. Package (Multi-contract) 301787 2020-01-14 Your Golf Travel Ltd 9851


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

Mate sorting had this email last week!

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:57 PM Joshua Harvey <joshua.harvey@yourgolftravel.com> wrote:
*Hello ,*

*We do not have any concerns about your destination as there are no cases there at present. Also, given the time between now and your trip, we anticipate there being no impact. *

*However, if the FCO or WHO prohibit travel to your destination and you are unable to travel there over your chosen dates, the following would apply:*

*- We would look to move your trip to a new destination that offers a like-for-like experience, subject to availability
- We would look to move your trip to new dates for the same experience, subject to availability
- We would look to refund the cost of your trip, failing the above*​


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## Duckster (Mar 18, 2020)

Flights and digs supplied by a travel company for stays over 24 hours is a package. Covered by Abta. They can’t argue against it. 

https://www.abta.com/help-and-compl...ights-been-cancelled-what-will-happen-rest-my


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## Mel Smooth (Mar 18, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Mate sorting had this email last week!

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:57 PM Joshua Harvey <joshua.harvey@yourgolftravel.com> wrote:
*Hello ,*​​*We do not have any concerns about your destination as there are no cases there at present. Also, given the time between now and your trip, we anticipate there being no impact. *​​*However, if the FCO or WHO prohibit travel to your destination and you are unable to travel there over your chosen dates, the following would apply:*​​*- We would look to move your trip to a new destination that offers a like-for-like experience, subject to availability*​*- We would look to move your trip to new dates for the same experience, subject to availability*​*- We would look to refund the cost of your trip, failing the above*​​

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When was your trip meant to be?


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## peld (Mar 18, 2020)

Duckster said:



			Flights and digs supplied by a travel company for stays over 24 hours is a package. Covered by Abta. They can’t argue against it.

https://www.abta.com/help-and-compl...ights-been-cancelled-what-will-happen-rest-my

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That's not true as it even says in the description. They can act as agent to book the flights if its clear when you book. This is now quite common in low cost carrier model in which we live.


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## Duckster (Mar 18, 2020)

peld said:



			That's not true as it even says in the description. They can act as agent to book the flights if its clear when you book. This is now quite common in low cost carrier model in which we live.
		
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Says in which description? They sold them accommodation and flights through a carrier. That’s 2 of the things required to class it as a package


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## Duckster (Mar 18, 2020)

As a quick question to the OP. Did you pay for this in one transaction? Or got one bill/costing? Or did you have to pay multiple deposits? Eg 1 for the flights and a separate transaction for the hotel?


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

Mel Smooth said:



			When was your trip meant to be?
		
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Meant to be flying on Friday the 20th March, 2 days time.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

Duckster said:



			As a quick question to the OP. Did you pay for this in one transaction? Or got one bill/costing? Or did you have to pay multiple deposits? Eg 1 for the flights and a separate transaction for the hotel?
		
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All paid in one lump sum to Your Golf Travel, nearly £5,000 in total for 7 of us. We all paid one guy via Bank Transfer and he then paid them via Debit card.


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## Duckster (Mar 18, 2020)

You should definitely be covered then. 

Should be covered under section 1 here:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/holiday-rights/


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 18, 2020)

Duckster said:



			You should definitely be covered then.

Should be covered under section 1 here:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/holiday-rights/

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I agree - but they are saying they will only offer a credit note.

To me it seems like a con! They will keep the money they get back from the flights and we chase the money via our travel insurance!


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## DanFST (Mar 18, 2020)

Right i've had a think over lunch. Ignore covid completely.

your contract is with them, Flight has been cancelled. Ask what there suitable replacement is in order to fulfil the contract.

Decide wether that is suitable, I imagine it won't be.


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## Mel Smooth (Mar 18, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Meant to be flying on Friday the 20th March, 2 days time.
		
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Right, the way the email from YGT read, it implied it was a long way into the future. 

No wonder you are peeved.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 19, 2020)

This is under their terms and conditions which they are saying TRUMPS the law - are they right?

28. Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances

28.1 In these Terms and Conditions, where we refer to Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances, it means a situation beyond the control of the party who invokes such a situation and the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

28.2 This may cover for example warfare, other serious security problems such as terrorism, significant risks to human health such as the outbreak of a serious disease at the travel destination, or natural disasters such as floods, earthquakes or weather conditions which make it impossible to travel safely to the destination as agreed in the Package travel contract.

28.3 Except where we say differently elsewhere in these conditions, we cannot pay any compensation, reimburse expenses, or cover losses for any amount or otherwise accept responsibility if, as a result of Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances, we have to cancel your booking prior to departure, any refund can be issued by way of a holiday voucher.

28.4 Except where we say differently elsewhere in these conditions, we cannot pay any compensation, reimburse expenses, or cover losses for any amount or otherwise accept responsibility if, as a result of Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances, we change your booking after departure, or we, or our suppliers, cannot supply your booking, as we, or they, had agreed, or you suffer any loss or damage of any description.


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## gmjs (Mar 19, 2020)

Hi, just joined up when I found this thread so go easy on me, I am in the exact same situation with YGT and though I would post what I have found out after a good few hours of research and phone calls.

I received an email to say that our break to France on the Eurotunnel was cancelled and I could change dates or have a refund. I replied saying please refund back to my credit card. 

A reply came back the next day from YGT saying a refund could only be in the form of a credit note, so I responded to them saying this was no good and as under clause 10.1 of their T&C's and as per my ABTA protection rights I would like refund back to my card. Who knows if YGT will still be trading and the credit being available 6 momths down the line ?!

Final response came back saying they are only issuing credit vouchers, so I responded saying they appear to be breaching the T&C's set out when I booked so I will take up with ABTA and my CC company. I have sent an ABTA complaint off online and am awaiting a response. I have since found out ABTA are currently emergency lobbying the government due to this, to make it legal for a credit note to be offered, even though T&C's and ABTA protection states a refund will be given. Seems as if they are working in the interest of the agents and not the consumers, albeit trying to stop the agents going out of business.

If you read section 10 of their T&C's (they cancel on you), the clause 28 advice about exceptional circumstances appears to only relate to compensation and not the original holiday cost fees paid, as stated in clause 10.2 of YGT T&C's.

Spoke to my CC company about processing a Section 75 claim and their representative went away and sought advice from the legal team, who read the YGT T&C's and said they can process a section 75 if YGT do not change their advice to me, or ABTA do not respond to me within the next 14 days.  They seemed sure the YGT T&C's give me the right to a full refund, let along the ABTA guarantee backing this up.

Fingers crossed that ABTA are not allowed to make this backhanded change and everyone who has paid by any method can claim their hard earned money back. It seems madness to hold credit on account with YGT, who will most likely decide to bail out of the industry and close down because of all of this.

Gaz


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## GB72 (Mar 19, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			This is under their terms and conditions which they are saying TRUMPS the law - are they right?

28. Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances

28.1 In these Terms and Conditions, where we refer to Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances, it means a situation beyond the control of the party who invokes such a situation and the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

28.2 This may cover for example warfare, other serious security problems such as terrorism, significant risks to human health such as the outbreak of a serious disease at the travel destination, or natural disasters such as floods, earthquakes or weather conditions which make it impossible to travel safely to the destination as agreed in the Package travel contract.

28.3 Except where we say differently elsewhere in these conditions, we cannot pay any compensation, reimburse expenses, or cover losses for any amount or otherwise accept responsibility if, as a result of Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances, we have to cancel your booking prior to departure, any refund can be issued by way of a holiday voucher.

28.4 Except where we say differently elsewhere in these conditions, we cannot pay any compensation, reimburse expenses, or cover losses for any amount or otherwise accept responsibility if, as a result of Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances, we change your booking after departure, or we, or our suppliers, cannot supply your booking, as we, or they, had agreed, or you suffer any loss or damage of any description.
		
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If this is classed as a signed agreement to accept vouchers then you may be stuck.


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## gmjs (Mar 19, 2020)

Link to current ABTA stance as of this morning .......

https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/363737/coronavirus-abta-urges-changes-to-refund-rules


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## DanFST (Mar 19, 2020)

Edit: Didn't see the update whilst I was asleep. Carry on.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 19, 2020)

Even if I quote the law to them, they could still refuse to offer a refund - what then?


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## gmjs (Mar 19, 2020)

Ask the bank who issued the debit card to process a chargeback as outlined below by Martin Lewis .......

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback/


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 19, 2020)

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 19, 2020)

Latest from your golf travel...

Following on from our previous communication , we are unable to offer you a cash refund of your holiday costs. 

To explain the reasons for this decision, ABTA (which YGT is a member) recently released a statement regarding the COVID-19 outbreak:


ABTA has advised the government to immediately implement emergency legislation to:
Introduce an emergency government fund to assist where tour operators are unable to retain funds back from suppliers
Remove the obligation to make refunds (including holiday vouchers) within 14 days 
To allow holiday credits as an alternative form of payment
In light of this development Tour Operators have been advised that they are justified in these situations to hold back on making any refunds (of any kind) until such a time, pending feedback on further development on this approach from ABTA to the government. 

At this point in time, I would like to reiterate that the three options detailed below are still available should you wish to reconsider: 

1) Move your booking to another date 'free of charge'. (This would be subject to availability and any supplier price changes).

2) We will issue a 'holiday voucher' to be used against future travel.  (Where we have not already incurred charges from our suppliers).    

3) If you choose to cancel your booking you may be able to make a claim through your travel insurance company.  In this case please contact us at your earliest opportunity so we can provide you with the necessary documents.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 19, 2020)

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Neilds (Mar 19, 2020)

Should this be played out on social media? Seems dirty and tacky to me


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## DanFST (Mar 19, 2020)

Good reply!


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 19, 2020)

I'm just trying to give others in the same boat as us some hope should we get offered a refund through our persistence...


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## DeanoMK (Mar 19, 2020)

Neilds said:



			Should this be played out on social media? Seems dirty and tacky to me
		
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Who's put it on social media? A golf forum is not social media.

It might go against what you think, but these days the best way to get this sorted is to go on Twitter, you're basically guaranteed a resolution.


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## Neilds (Mar 19, 2020)

DeanoMK said:



			Who's put it on social media? A golf forum is not social media.

It might go against what you think, but these days the best way to get this sorted is to go on Twitter, you're basically guaranteed a resolution.
		
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Disagree that a forum is social media and also , whilst I support the OP’s initial postings, I don’t think it is right to publish the email trail on here.


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## Old Skier (Mar 19, 2020)

Neilds said:



			Disagree that a forum is social media and also , whilst I support the OP’s initial postings, I don’t think it is right to publish the email trail on here.
		
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As someone who is in the same position as the OP I can understand his frustrations.

I have been organising golf trips for my mates for the last 8 years all with the same company. I have always gone with them as they are ABTA protected. To find out now that it basically means absolutely nothing comes as a bit of a kick in the teeth.

I have 18 friends who have in good faith given me the money to book them a holiday with. For a company now to say sorry you'll have to sort it puts all the stress and worry on me the organiser. Offering a credit note means absolutely nothing as if the company goes bust or changes its trading name it becomes worthless. Half of the group are in the forces and cannot guarantee when or if they will b available again.

Company's have there insurance and should claim on it along with the ABTA bond, unusual circumstances yes, my problem, no.


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## howbow88 (Mar 20, 2020)

1) A golf/movie/pineapple/etc forum is social media. 

2) I don't see anything wrong in posting about it on here or any other social media platform. 

On the subject itself, you're not alone in this - check out Twitter for several people in the same boat. I had tickets booked for the Augusta National Women's Amateur, held the weekend before The Masters. Some things to consider:

Coronavirus isn't YGT's fault. 
YGT like most travel companies are probably going to be completely screwed by this situation, and will be lucky to survive it. 

Also worth considering:

Coronavirus isn't the customer's fault either. 
I've now paid for a service/product that I'm not going to get. 

The world does seem to be falling apart at the moment, but it also seems to me that YGT are simply not fulfilling what is required of them in pretty much all of these scenarios - a full refund if one is requested. 

Taking a voucher seems like madness, in my opinion. As said earlier, they will be lucky to survive this. The timing for them couldn't be much worse either - at a guess, March-April must be the most popular time of the year for British golf travellers.  

I will probably end up going through travel insurance, which I don't want to do - my premiums will probably go up, I would guess without checking that there will be some sort of excess involved, and YGT will have my cash for doing pretty much nothing. 

However, I will almost never use them again, and I will also make sure I leave a review on every platform available to let people know that if things turn sour, YGT won't help you out. One bad review won't impact them, but if everyone who has been caught up in this leaves a negative review...


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## howbow88 (Mar 20, 2020)

I should add that I also have the option to attend the event if it is rescheduled, or go to next year's event. This doesn't work for me unfortunately (long story but I get very cheap long-haul flights currently, after September I won't). There also comes back again to the question of whether YGT will still be in business by October. 

I had a trip to Gdansk this weekend. Expedia have refunded hotels already, and budget airline Wizz Air are currently in the process of doing the same. 

For my Augusta trip, Hotels.com have made it clear that all hotels will be refunded and both Virgin Atlantic and BA are refunding for the flights. 

It's only YGT who come out of this looking bad.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 20, 2020)

The latest response from Debra this morning at YGT!

"Our team will escalate your request internally and we will be in touch as soon as we have any more information"

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## jmf1488 (Mar 20, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			The latest response from Debra this morning at YGT!

"Our team will escalate your request internally and we will be in touch as soon as we have any more information"

Which stinks of stalling tactics to me!
		
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She doesn't know what else to tell you. At her pay grade she doesn't get to make the decisions to give you money or not.


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## howbow88 (Mar 20, 2020)

Yep. They've clearly been told by higher up bosses to hold on to whatever money they have. 

It's desperate, but then these are desperate time for everyone in the travel industry.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 20, 2020)

I will reply to all their twitter feeds asking when they will be complying with current legislation and offering refunds to customers who have not been able to have their holidays that they've paid for.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 20, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240579435943919616


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## Old Skier (Mar 21, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			The latest response from Debra this morning at YGT!

"Our team will escalate your request internally and we will be in touch as soon as we have any more information"

Which stinks of stalling tactics to me!
		
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I'm in the same boat with Golfbreaks and they are adopting the same tactics although I suspect Debra's response was reasonable and you should give her a couple of days to come back.


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## Neilds (Mar 23, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			After many tweets to @yourgolftravel I had this over the weekend!

View attachment 29449

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You did publish the name of an employee on this forum, think that was well out of order. Could be classed as abuse


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 23, 2020)

?

Ross Marshall
@ross88888
Founder & Group CEO 
@yourgolftravel

It says on his twitter profile who he is...


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## Neilds (Mar 23, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			?

Ross Marshall
@ross88888
Founder & Group CEO
@yourgolftravel

It says on his twitter profile who he is...
		
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I was referring to Debra, why did you feel it was ok to put her details online? A copy of the email text would have sufficed.
These are my personal thoughts


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 23, 2020)

Neilds said:



			I was referring to Debra, why did you feel it was ok to put her details online? A copy of the email text would have sufficed.
These are my personal thoughts
		
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These are not her personal details?

If it helps others send their queries to the correct people within YGT than I think under the circumstances of them currently refusing to refund people's money it's fair to leave a work's contact online. Once we've been offered our refunds I'll gladly remove them, but for now, if others come across this thread it just might help them.


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## Slab (Mar 23, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			1) A golf/movie/pineapple/etc forum is social media.

2) I don't see anything wrong in posting about it on here or any other social media platform.

On the subject itself, you're not alone in this - check out Twitter for several people in the same boat. I had tickets booked for the Augusta National Women's Amateur, held the weekend before The Masters. Some things to consider:

Coronavirus isn't YGT's fault.
YGT like most travel companies are probably going to be completely screwed by this situation, and will be lucky to survive it.

Also worth considering:

Coronavirus isn't the customer's fault either.
I've now paid for a service/product that I'm not going to get.

The world does seem to be falling apart at the moment, but it also seems to me that YGT are simply not fulfilling what is required of them in pretty much all of these scenarios - a full refund if one is requested.

*Taking a voucher seems like madness, in my opinion. As said earlier, they will be lucky to survive this. *The timing for them couldn't be much worse either - at a guess, March-April must be the most popular time of the year for British golf travellers.

I will probably end up going through travel insurance, which I don't want to do - my premiums will probably go up, I would guess without checking that there will be some sort of excess involved, and YGT will have my cash for doing pretty much nothing.

However, I will almost never use them again, and I will also make sure I leave a review on every platform available to let people know that if things turn sour, YGT won't help you out. One bad review won't impact them, but if everyone who has been caught up in this leaves a negative review...
		
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*If* this is a possibility _(& I have no idea if it is & I'm sure we all hope it isn't)_ surely they would be mad to pay out a refund to any customer just now?

What cash they have would be earmarked for the process of Administration etc and as with any company going to the wall the most important part is paying employees who will no longer have a job, with customers being in the line of creditors just like everyone else.

While personally disappointing to anyone booking a break/trip/holiday that gets cancelled and regardless of the vendor or whether its golf related or not:
Would a refund of a purchase like this (with no material value outside of a few memories and a weeks tan) that's usually paid entirely with disposable income, would/should refunds for this type of thing rank below paying employees their final salaries? 

I hope its resolved to the satisfaction of both parties but if only one gets money it must be the employees first


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 23, 2020)

Slab said:



*If* this is a possibility _(& I have no idea if it is & I'm sure we all hope it isn't)_ surely they would be mad to pay out a refund to any customer just now?

What cash they have would be earmarked for the process of Administration etc and as with any company going to the wall the most important part is paying employees who will no longer have a job, with customers being in the line of creditors just like everyone else.

While personally disappointing to anyone booking a break/trip/holiday that gets cancelled and regardless of the vendor or whether its golf related or not:
Would a refund of a purchase like this (with no material value outside of a few memories and a weeks tan) that's usually paid entirely with disposable income, would/should refunds for this type of thing rank below paying employees their final salaries?

I hope its resolved to the satisfaction of both parties but if only one gets money it must be the employees first
		
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Yes you're right, forget the rights of the common man, let's protect big business. Let's forget that they are not complying with legislation, I bet their owner and CEO will not be struggling to pay his rent or buy food for his family.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree.


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## Slab (Mar 23, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Yes you're right, forget the rights of the common man, let's protect big business. Let's forget that they are not complying with legislation, I bet their owner and CEO will not be struggling to pay his rent or buy food for his family.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree.
		
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C'mon Kenny you know that's not what I said. i'm plainly talking about the people you're calling/emailing and their colleagues, who you suspect (& I admit i'm only guessing here) will be unemployed soon. I hope you both get a positive outcome, but _*if *_its your refund or their redundancy then sorry to say its the latter every time

*If* any CEO is squirreling cash away then I'd say you're good to pop round and have it out with them


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## Old Skier (Mar 23, 2020)

Just had a long civil chat with guys at Golfbreaks. Highly unlikely that you will get anymore than a credit for a future break. ABTA have updated their web page and currently talking to the government about the possibility of them stepping in (highly unlikely).

Tough times but remember not to shoot the messengers, they are only doing their job. We are around £7,000 down. Several of the group are SF so getting new dates will be difficult but we have agreed to look at this time next year for a start point.


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## howbow88 (Mar 23, 2020)

Slab said:



*If* this is a possibility _(& I have no idea if it is & I'm sure we all hope it isn't)_ surely they would be mad to pay out a refund to any customer just now?

What cash they have would be earmarked for the process of Administration etc and as with any company going to the wall the most important part is paying employees who will no longer have a job, with customers being in the line of creditors just like everyone else.

While personally disappointing to anyone booking a break/trip/holiday that gets cancelled and regardless of the vendor or whether its golf related or not:
Would a refund of a purchase like this (with no material value outside of a few memories and a weeks tan) that's usually paid entirely with disposable income, would/should refunds for this type of thing rank below paying employees their final salaries?

I hope its resolved to the satisfaction of both parties but if only one gets money it must be the employees first
		
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I had flights with budget airline Wizz - full refund on it's way. 
I had hotels booked with both Expedia and Hotels.com - full refund received. 

My post was completely balanced and as someone who used to work in the travel industry, I absolutely get where they are coming from. However, they are the only ones withholding funds - other companies are refunding me in full. 

As said, they might have my money but I'll probably never use them again. One person thinking that is not going to impact them, but there are many more than just one or two customers who may come out of this feeling the same way.


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## howbow88 (Mar 23, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Tough times but remember not to shoot the messengers, they are only doing their job.
		
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Agree with this


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 23, 2020)

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/yourgolftravel.com


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## Parsaregood (Mar 23, 2020)

After ready these reviews I can vouch I will never book a golf holiday through this company, absolutely disgusting what they are doing


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## Wabinez (Mar 24, 2020)

We’ve been in the same boat...were due to fly to Spain today. 3 options were given:

reschedule
credit note
go through insurance to get money.

I’m taking the insurance route, and hopefully get my £900 back.  I’ll probably use it for another golf holiday. Will it be through YGT? Very, very doubtful


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 24, 2020)

Wabinez said:



			We’ve been in the same boat...were due to fly to Spain today. 3 options were given:

reschedule
credit note
go through insurance to get money.

I’m taking the insurance route, and hopefully get my £900 back.  I’ll probably use it for another golf holiday. Will it be through YGT? Very, very doubtful
		
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One of our party has contacted his insurance company who were unsympathetic saying they had been offered reasonable choices!!!!!


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 24, 2020)

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Mar 24, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			One of our party has contacted his insurance company who were unsympathetic saying they had been offered reasonable choices!!!!!
		
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Kenny, did your man apply for a chargeback through his bank?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 24, 2020)

I was due for a UK break with YGT in just under 3 weeks. Those being given options, I am happy to re-schedule incidentally but then there are only 2 of us going 2 1/2 hours away, are they contacting you with those or are you having to get in touch? I have received the generic email saying they will get to me in order but is that actually happening?


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## Neilds (Mar 24, 2020)

Do people think that bombarding companies with emails, etc at this time will get things done any quicker? This is a totally new , ever changing situation which companies are still trying to work out what to do. Give them a chance to sort things out. 
Yes, you are out of pocket but there are more important things going on at the moment, try and put things into a bit of perspective


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## Wabinez (Mar 24, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			One of our party has contacted his insurance company who were unsympathetic saying they had been offered reasonable choices!!!!!
		
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I am waiting for the paperwork to come through...so we’ll see.

The fear is that vouchers provided mean nothing if YGT go pop, which is a very possible situation.  I get there are employees etc, but there are also multiple people that are, potentially, thousands out of pocket.  It’s not an ideal situation, but as a customer, we need protection too.  I don’t fancy losing £835.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 24, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Kenny, did your man apply for a chargeback through his bank?
		
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They don't offer that service on his debit card sadly.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 24, 2020)

Neilds said:



			Do people think that bombarding companies with emails, etc at this time will get things done any quicker? This is a totally new , ever changing situation which companies are still trying to work out what to do. Give them a chance to sort things out. 
Yes, you are out of pocket but there are more important things going on at the moment, try and put things into a bit of perspective
		
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Nearly every other firm we've dealt with have offered and agreed a refund very quickly....


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## DanFST (Mar 24, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			They don't offer that service on his debit card sadly.
		
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They will do, it's through Visa or MasterCard, not the bank themselves


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## howbow88 (Mar 24, 2020)

I tried through my Nationwide Visa credit card and they were useless. I actually found them far more annoying than YGT, as I understand where YGT are coming from. The credit card people basically said that they go by whatever terms and conditions YGT offer and that's that. I think the truth is that because this is such a crazy situation, everyone is making it up as they go along. That includes travel companies, insurance, and seemingly Nationwide/Visa. 

Whilst I got a refund for my flights, a friend of mine was due to go to Australia in a few days through Emirates. I told her not to worry and when the flights get cancelled, you'll be offered a full refund. Emirates are refusing a full refund because they have said the only reason they're cancelling is due to government imposed restrictions, and it is not their choice. Her options are a partial refund of £400 (flights were £1000), insurance option minus a weighty £400 excess, or credit for a later date.


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## gmjs (Mar 24, 2020)

Just wrote a trustpilot review.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 24, 2020)

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****

The process is clear by law!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 24, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Our group leader has been sent an email which basically says if we remove our posts on social media and negative reviews on trust pilot they will advise us of the process to request a refund!

Hilarious.

The process is clear by law!
		
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I’d only remove the posts once the refund has been received.

I’ve used YGT in the past and they’ve always been good guys to deal with though I felt once they had your money they’re not too bothered about you. 

After reading this and other posts of how they’ve handled this I’d be reluctant to use them again.

Good luck Kenny


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## DanFST (Mar 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I’d only remove the posts once the refund has been received.
		
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This - scummy move, but at least you'll be set.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 25, 2020)

DanFST said:



			This - scummy move, but at least you'll be set.
		
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Maybe so but could you really trust YGT to do the right thing after the way theyve handled this situation?  I couldn't.


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## DanFST (Mar 25, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Maybe so but could you really trust YGT to do the right thing after the way theyve handled this situation?  I couldn't.
		
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No, I completely agree. I was referring to the request to remove social posts. Apologies.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 25, 2020)

DanFST said:



			No, I completely agree. I was referring to the request to remove social posts. Apologies.
		
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I know, my response wasnt the best. 

👍


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## howbow88 (Mar 25, 2020)

All I can say is that you guys appear to have been quite lucky here  I emailed YGT this morning and said how they clearly are refunding some people, so please can you reconsider this with my booking. I also made clear that if no refund is offered, I will leave honest but ultimately negative reviews on my experience online. 

I've been told no change in policy, no refunds allowed.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 26, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			All I can say is that you guys appear to have been quite lucky here  I emailed YGT this morning and said how they clearly are refunding some people, so please can you reconsider this with my booking. I also made clear that if no refund is offered, I will leave honest but ultimately negative reviews on my experience online.

I've been told no change in policy, no refunds allowed.
		
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***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Mar 26, 2020)

Any update Kenny or have you signed a private agreement?


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 27, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Any update Kenny or have you signed a private agreement?
		
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***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****

If I have any further updates I'll post back here but for now we're getting nowhere really!

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****

I'm not sure how much longer YGT can survive without government intervention, they are not the only tour operator in this mess, check out Twitter #ABTAtravel and you'll see many unhappy customers, some out of pocket by thousands.


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## Canary_Yellow (Mar 27, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			No update, the WhatsApp group continues to grow with other parties affected too.

To date I don't believe any customers have been offered a refund in line with the PTR 2018.

They are hoping I imagine that the law changes things retrospectively so they get longer to offer the refund.

YGT are in a very bad position as I've heard that they bought 1000 £5000 trips to the Masters on behalf of customers ( £5m ) and they bought the tickets in such a way that now the masters has been postponed not cancelled they cannot get their money back to pass back to customers who can no longer go on the rescheduled flights.

Also they have a business model that means any money you pay them now for you forthcoming trip is used to pay the hotels etc of trips that happened 6 weeks ago (on their credit with suppliers) so when you ask for your money back because you've not had your trip and where is your money - they've spent it long ago!

Our options once the statutory 14 days are up by which they should offer us a full refund are to take them to the smalls claim court and start a government petition to have this issue looked at.

ABTA who are meant to be working FOR the travellers are seemingly putting their paymasters (the tour operators) first!

If I have any further updates I'll post back here but for now we're getting nowhere really!

We want our money and they have spent it and have none left!

I'm not sure how much longer YGT can survive without government intervention, they are not the only tour operator in this mess, check out Twitter #ABTAtravel and you'll see many unhappy customers, some out of pocket by thousands.
		
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If you took a credit note, presumably the credit note is not backed by ABTA? 

So of all options, is that the very worst of them? If you couldn't get the cash, but rebooked another trip, that trip presumably would be covered by ABTA and therefore you wouldn't be out of pocket if they folded?


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 27, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			If you took a credit note, presumably the credit note is not backed by ABTA?

So of all options, is that the very worst of them? If you couldn't get the cash, but rebooked another trip, that trip presumably would be covered by ABTA and therefore you wouldn't be out of pocket if they folded?
		
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I've rebooked my UK break with them for same time next year. My thinking was partly, I want to go still and also it would remain protected, as you suggest. I am hoping you are right.


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## chrisd (Mar 27, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			If you took a credit note, presumably the credit note is not backed by ABTA? 

So of all options, is that the very worst of them? If you couldn't get the cash, but rebooked another trip, that trip presumably would be covered by ABTA and therefore you wouldn't be out of pocket if they folded?
		
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I'm thinking the same with our cruise that's about to be cancelled


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## Wabinez (Mar 27, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			No update, the WhatsApp group continues to grow with other parties affected too.

To date I don't believe any customers have been offered a refund in line with the PTR 2018.

They are hoping I imagine that the law changes things retrospectively so they get longer to offer the refund.

YGT are in a very bad position as I've heard that they bought 1000 £5000 trips to the Masters on behalf of customers ( £5m ) and they bought the tickets in such a way that now the masters has been postponed not cancelled they cannot get their money back to pass back to customers who can no longer go on the rescheduled flights.

Also they have a business model that means any money you pay them now for you forthcoming trip is used to pay the hotels etc of trips that happened 6 weeks ago (on their credit with suppliers) so when you ask for your money back because you've not had your trip and where is your money - they've spent it long ago!

Our options once the statutory 14 days are up by which they should offer us a full refund are to take them to the smalls claim court and start a government petition to have this issue looked at.

ABTA who are meant to be working FOR the travellers are seemingly putting their paymasters (the tour operators) first!

If I have any further updates I'll post back here but for now we're getting nowhere really!

We want our money and they have spent it and have none left!

I'm not sure how much longer YGT can survive without government intervention, they are not the only tour operator in this mess, check out Twitter #ABTAtravel and you'll see many unhappy customers, some out of pocket by thousands.
		
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fairly damning.

wonder if it is worth just using credit to book another holiday and then have it protected when it all goes tits up


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 27, 2020)

So if you re-book have you immediately taken out new travel insurance to cover you in case they go bust?


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## Canary_Yellow (Mar 27, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			So if you re-book have you immediately taken out new travel insurance to cover you in case they go bust?
		
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Isn't that what ABTA covers?


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 27, 2020)

Canary_Yellow said:



			Isn't that what ABTA covers?
		
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I'd want as much cover as possible!


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## Mark1751 (Mar 27, 2020)

I see that they have replied on twitter explain vouchers turn to cash on the 31/07/2020 if not used.


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## howbow88 (Mar 27, 2020)

Mark1751 said:



			I see that they have replied on twitter explain vouchers turn to cash on the 31/07/2020 if not used.
		
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Do you have a link?


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## howbow88 (Mar 27, 2020)

I've just had a look on Twitter, and seen an 'Andrew Harding' tweeting. Apparently he is a co-founder of YGT. He has indeed suggested that vouchers will turn to cash if not used by the end of July... I don't really get this. Surely it's just a way of ensuring a full refund, though you of course have to wait 4+ months for it...


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## Wabinez (Mar 28, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			Do you have a link?
		
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https://www.abta.com/news/coronavirus-outbreak

official ABTA release regarding the vouchers. It’s a little bit down the page.


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## howbow88 (Mar 28, 2020)

Hmmm. I wonder if this is just a trick, and they will change the rules again in July? I found Kennysarmy's Twitter page last night, and that was a great source of info - basically, ABTA are taking the mick. Changing their own rules to help out travel companies.

From a couple of tweets, YGT and Andrew Harding have implied that people are abusing them... Has this happened? It's not really on if so, but I can't see anything myself...?


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 28, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			Hmmm. I wonder if this is just a trick, and they will change the rules again in July? I found Kennysarmy's Twitter page last night, and that was a great source of info - basically, ABTA are taking the mick. Changing their own rules to help out travel companies.

From a couple of tweets, YGT and Andrew Harding have implied that people are abusing them... Has this happened? It's not really on if so, but I can't see anything myself...?
		
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***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			His definition of abuse is people asking for refunds they're entitled to.

His definition of abused is bringing this issue to the attention of their ambassadors Westwood and Clarke etc.

His definition of abuse is people citing the truth and the law at YGT.

The WhatsApp group are hoping to speak to him on Monday.
		
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When you next ask him for a refund, tell him Darren sent yer 🤭🤭 I'll get my coat


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## Mark1751 (Mar 28, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			Hmmm. I wonder if this is just a trick, and they will change the rules again in July? I found Kennysarmy's Twitter page last night, and that was a great source of info - basically, ABTA are taking the mick. Changing their own rules to help out travel companies.

From a couple of tweets, YGT and Andrew Harding have implied that people are abusing them... Has this happened? It's not really on if so, but I can't see anything myself...?
		
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i have seen some abusing YGT and their staff all over social media and golf forums. Not very nice to get personal


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## howbow88 (Mar 28, 2020)

Mark1751 said:



			i have seen some abusing YGT and their staff all over social media and golf forums. Not very nice to get personal
		
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Agree, and this shouldn't happen.  I've not seen any of this myself though...


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

Mark1751 said:



			i have seen some abusing YGT and their staff all over social media and golf forums. Not very nice to get personal
		
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Whilst theres full understanding of frustration, there's no condoning this behaviour at all. 

From what I've seen from Kenny's posts on here they've been been fair. 

Unfortunately theres always people who will go that step further in every walk of life especially on twitter/ social media.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

Btw, i totally understand YGT position on this matter from a business point. They cant refund everybody as their business model, like many other leisure business's, needs a cash flow etc. 

That said, there's rules in place to cover both them and the customer which they dont seem to be sticking to on this occasion. 

Do the right thing YGT and refund the punters.


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## howbow88 (Mar 28, 2020)

They're playing the Short Term Vs Long Term game. Long term they will lose plenty of customers over this due to reputational damage. In the short term though, they probably need to hold on to money just to survive the next few months. 

It isn't easy for anyone right now, but that said, they/ABTA are effectively just changing the rules to suit them. That really isn't right.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 28, 2020)

I removed one tweet from Twitter when they asked me to..... It wasn't what I would necessarily call abusive but I did #@&£ out a swear word. When they asked if I'd remove it, I did. 

AFAIK none of my other social media posts on this matter are inaccurate or abusive.

If anyone is being inaccurate it's YGT advising customers that they don't have to offer a cash refund and that ABTA are advising them of such.

The CEO of ABTA this week did a videod interview where he confirmed that cash refunds should still be offered.

I'll find the link if anyone wants to watch.


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## Wabinez (Mar 28, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			I removed one tweet from Twitter when they asked me to..... It wasn't what I would necessarily call abusive but I did #@&£ out a swear word. When they asked if I'd remove it, I did.

AFAIK none of my other social media posts on this matter are inaccurate or abusive.

If anyone is being inaccurate it's YGT advising customers that they don't have to offer a cash refund and that ABTA are advising them of such.

The CEO of ABTA this week did a videod interview where he confirmed that cash refunds should still be offered.

I'll find the link if anyone wants to watch.
		
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yes please


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Btw, i totally understand YGT position on this matter from a business point. They cant refund everybody as their business model, like many other leisure business's, needs a cash flow etc. 

That said, there's rules in place to cover both them and the customer which they dont seem to be sticking to on this occasion. 

Do the right thing YGT and refund the punters.
		
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The reality is though it would send them under. It's the equivalent of a run on a bank. Sympathy all round but YGT will just be trying to survive right now. They are trying to buy time. I'm not condoning their response but like you, I see why they are doing it.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 28, 2020)

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/365406/video-interview-abta-chief-executive-mark-tanzer


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## chrisd (Mar 28, 2020)

Surely, even if ABTA change their rules, under contract law the contracts made before the rules are changed still hold good afaik that is that a cash refund has to be made. If ABTA change their rules to allow a credit note then ABTA will completely wreck the holiday industry that they are there to protect.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/365406/video-interview-abta-chief-executive-mark-tanzer

Click to expand...

After listening to that I'd be prepared to give YGT til July for a full refund, under the circumstances. The booking would  still be covered by ABTA, and the credit wouldn't be a credit note as we know it, so if YGT went bump you'd still get your full monies back.

This virus is affecting us all, a bit of flexibility from all parties should be given imo.

Good luck mate.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Surely, even if ABTA change their rules, under contract law the contracts made before the rules are changed still hold good afaik that is that a cash refund has to be made. If ABTA change their rules to allow a credit note then ABTA will completely wreck the holiday industry that they are there to protect.
		
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It's extending the 14 day refund period, not changing the full terms as such.

Not ideal for the punter but at least their monies are safe even if YGT went bump.


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## howbow88 (Mar 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			After listening to that I'd be prepared to give YGT til July for a full refund, under the circumstances. The booking would  still be covered by ABTA, and the credit wouldn't be a credit note as we know it, so if YGT went bump you'd still get your full monies back.

This virus is affecting us all, a bit of flexibility from all parties should be given imo.

Good luck mate.
		
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I'm thinking of this option, but I'm now quite cynical as to what happens if many of those vouchers haven't been used by the end of July. Will ABTA just move the goalposts?


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## Old Skier (Mar 28, 2020)

I received my credit note from Golfbreaks and it was for less than we payed, no response to emails and can't get anyone on the phone, I'm all for either rebooking or waiting for the cash but being screwed over is not on the cards.


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## Wabinez (Mar 28, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			I received my credit note from Golfbreaks and it was for less than we payed, no response to emails and can't get anyone on the phone, I'm all for either rebooking or waiting for the cash but being screwed over is not on the cards.
		
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how the hell does that work out?!


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			I'm thinking of this option, but I'm now quite cynical as to what happens if many of those vouchers haven't been used by the end of July. Will ABTA just move the goalposts?
		
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I see it as ABTA protecting their members on a short term basis, something I'd expect them to do. There's no way ABTA could shaft the punters otherwise they'd become useless.


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## Old Skier (Mar 28, 2020)

Wabinez said:



			how the hell does that work out?!
		
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Hopefully someone's bad maths but until I can talk to someone I'll not be able to find out.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 28, 2020)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/...-unpacked-Refunds-vouchers-booking-ahead.html


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/...-unpacked-Refunds-vouchers-booking-ahead.html

Click to expand...

Shame about the link 😉 

Some food for thought there, where your view now Kenny?


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 28, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Shame about the link 😉 

Some food for thought there, where your view now Kenny?
		
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I'd need concrete proof that the deferred refund scheme is 100% protected for me to accept it. Most of my group are of the same opinion. We're going to wait to see what develops next week when our refund is due. I know others from the Whatsapp group are more insistent that they should be offered, in line with the PTR 2018, a full refund within 14 days, as is their right.

It's an imperfect situation but customers money should not be used to prop up businesses in my opinion.

Hopefully there will be clarity from ABTA, the government and YGT next week.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 28, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



*I'd need concrete proof that the deferred refund scheme is 100% protected for me to accept it.* Most of my group are of the same opinion. We're going to wait to see what develops next week when our refund is due. I know others from the Whatsapp group are more insistent that they should be offered, in line with the PTR 2018, a full refund within 14 days, as is their right.

*It's an imperfect situation but customers money should not be used to prop up businesses in my opinion.*
G
Hopefully there will be clarity from ABTA, the government and YGT next week.
		
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That's fair Kenny.

This is probably more common than you think throughout the leisure industry. It's certainly not ideal but circumstances dictate.

Good luck fella.


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## howbow88 (Mar 29, 2020)

I left a review on Trust Pilot a couple of days ago, but YGT have reported it:

_No refund despite coronavirus
Like many others in 2020, my trip has been disrupted due to coronavirus. This isn't the fault of Your Golf Travel, but the way they are handling it is poor to say the least. The trip has understandably been cancelled, but instead of offering a full refund like the airlines and hotel providers have, Your Golf Travel are refusing and only offering the equivalent in vouchers, or to postpone the trip to a later date. These options really don't work for me and so I'm now stuck. Lesson learned - I won't use them again and I will make sure that everyone else knows that if things go wrong, Your Golf Travel will not help you._

Here is the report:

_Your Golf Travel's reason for reporting
Dear Sir,
Please can you send me your booking details ASAP as we have
no record of it and we would like to get in touch with you today..
Kind regards
Chris W_

As you can see, whoever Chris W is has not left any way to contact him, eg phone number or email address. I personally think he has put the report in there to simply hide the truth, and has no real intention of talking to me at all. 

I've contacted the guy I have been dealing with, telling him I am not happy at all with this action and that the report should be removed. In fairness to the guy I have been dealing with, he has been as helpful as he can be so far. 

Chis W though...


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 29, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			I left a review on Trust Pilot a couple of days ago, but YGT have reported it:

_No refund despite coronavirus
Like many others in 2020, my trip has been disrupted due to coronavirus. This isn't the fault of Your Golf Travel, but the way they are handling it is poor to say the least. The trip has understandably been cancelled, but instead of offering a full refund like the airlines and hotel providers have, Your Golf Travel are refusing and only offering the equivalent in vouchers, or to postpone the trip to a later date. These options really don't work for me and so I'm now stuck. Lesson learned - I won't use them again and I will make sure that everyone else knows that if things go wrong, Your Golf Travel will not help you._

Here is the report:

_Your Golf Travel's reason for reporting
Dear Sir,
Please can you send me your booking details ASAP as we have
no record of it and we would like to get in touch with you today..
Kind regards
Chris W_

As you can see, whoever Chris W is has not left any way to contact him, eg phone number or email address. I personally think he has put the report in there to simply hide the truth, and has no real intention of talking to me at all.

I've contacted the guy I have been dealing with, telling him I am not happy at all with this action and that the report should be removed. In fairness to the guy I have been dealing with, he has been as helpful as he can be so far.

Chis W though... 

Click to expand...

They've been trying to remove all the negative reviews! Regardless of whether they were abusive, rude or just straightforward telling the facts.

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Mark1751 (Mar 29, 2020)

What makes you think they will go under?


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## Stuart_C (Mar 29, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			I left a review on Trust Pilot a couple of days ago, but YGT have reported it:

_No refund despite coronavirus
Like many others in 2020, my trip has been disrupted due to coronavirus. This isn't the fault of Your Golf Travel, but the way they are handling it is poor to say the least. The trip has understandably been cancelled, but instead of offering a full refund like the airlines and hotel providers have, Your Golf Travel are refusing and only offering the equivalent in vouchers, or to postpone the trip to a later date. These options really don't work for me and so I'm now stuck. Lesson learned - I won't use them again and I will make sure that everyone else knows that if things go wrong, Your Golf Travel will not help you._

Here is the report:

_Your Golf Travel's reason for reporting
Dear Sir,
Please can you send me your booking details ASAP as we have
no record of it and we would like to get in touch with you today..
Kind regards
Chris W_

As you can see, whoever Chris W is has not left any way to contact him, eg phone number or email address. I personally think he has put the report in there to simply hide the truth, and has no real intention of talking to me at all.

I've contacted the guy I have been dealing with, telling him I am not happy at all with this action and that the report should be removed. In fairness to the guy I have been dealing with, he has been as helpful as he can be so far.

Chis W though... 

Click to expand...

I can’t see nothing wrong with your review.

I wouldn’t remove it.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 29, 2020)

Mark1751 said:



			What makes you think they will go under?
		
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1. They don't have the cash to pay everyone who wants a refund.
***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Mar 29, 2020)

Mark1751 said:



			What makes you think they will go under?
		
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I guess due to the current situation with travel suspended and closure of golf clubs, YGT are going to lose a lot of money this year. They make a lot of business through the summer months and with weekends away  around major competitions (Masters,TheOpen,Ryder Cup) all likely to be cancelled thats a massive dent in their usual sales. 

Is their business healthy enough to sustain a downturn in business?? I doubt it.


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## Mark1751 (Mar 29, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			1. They don't have the cash to pay everyone who wants a refund.
2. Information on the companies house website.
		
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1. how do you know they don’t have the cash to pay everyone? 2. What have you seen or read on their companies house submissions that makes you say that?


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## Mark1751 (Mar 29, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I guess due to the current situation with travel suspended and closure of golf clubs, YGT are going to lose a lot of money this year. They make a lot of business through the summer months and with weekends away  around major competitions (Masters,TheOpen,Ryder Cup) all likely to be cancelled thats a massive dent in their usual sales.

Is their business healthy enough to sustain a downturn in business?? I doubt it.
		
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I agree that YGT will more than likely loose money this and probably next year as things have and will continue to be financially tight for business and the general public for the foreseeable future. The stimulus package the Government has provided will have us all (employed and self employed) paying it back for the rest of our lifetimes. we are in unprecedented times with many of us having to go onto furlough pay or taking voluntary wage cuts to keep companies afloat. When times get tough things like holidays and weekends away golfing are not priorities and paying the mortgages and feeding the family are.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 29, 2020)

Mark1751 said:



			1. how do you know they don’t have the cash to pay everyone? 2. What have you seen or read on their companies house submissions that makes you say that?
		
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***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Mark1751 (Mar 29, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Because they are doing everything they can to refuse offering refunds!
There are nearly 20 guys in the Whatsapp group, people posting on Twitter and Facebook and I've not heard of a single person or group who's been offered a cash refund, I don't suppose they've taken the decision for the reputation to take such a massive hit if they could have just paid out.

Someone posted a screen shot from their companies house page, I sent it to a mate who teaches business and that was his immediate response, someone online was of a similar view. But who knows for definite.

What's definite is that some of the lead bookers are gearing up to take them to court to recover their money and with the law being on their side, they will win.

The credit notes even backed by ABTA and redeemable for cash in 4 months time will not suit all.

Perhaps it's time for YGT to offer an incentive to customers to agree to what is in effect a cash loan to keep the company trading.
		
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So in answer to my question is that you don’t have any idea that they don’t have the cash, and someone Who has seen one page of accounts can determine that a companies has no money.
With everything that is going on companies have had to work things out with little or no time, I would imagine (I’m no expert) that rule changes have allowed companies to get government backed loans or restructuring existing debts which takes time so they can get through this world wide crisis. Is that fair for the customers NO but I’m guessing if they started refunding everyone straight away then there will be some who get nothing and doing it this way gives both the company and the customers something - vouchers for future holidays (into cash end of July) and companies not having a run on them like the banks in 2008 which ultimately brought some of them down.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 29, 2020)

Mark1751 said:



			So in answer to my question is that you don’t have any idea that they don’t have the cash, and someone Who has seen one page of accounts can determine that a companies has no money.
With everything that is going on companies have had to work things out with little or no time, I would imagine (I’m no expert) that rule changes have allowed companies to get government backed loans or restructuring existing debts which takes time so they can get through this world wide crisis. Is that fair for the customers NO but I’m guessing if they started refunding everyone straight away then there will be some who get nothing and doing it this way gives both the company and the customers something - vouchers for future holidays (into cash end of July) and companies not having a run on them like the banks in 2008 which ultimately brought some of them down.
		
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I find your defence of YGT fairly odd. Nobody has said for definite they dont have the funds to pay the customers back but it's an educated guess many have made. The business model they run means they need new custom to pay for holidays that were had weeks ago, they clearly don't have much of a cash reserve and if they did then it would be worth refunding those who didn't wish for a voucher or a rescheduled break just to avoid the negative PR.

 I and I'm sure many others like me will never use YGT after reading how they have treated their customers, they have not been able to provide what they were contracted to provide and therefore you are entitled to a refund. This money is not YGT money, it's the money of hard working people who may need it now more than ever. It's about time YGT did the right thing by their customers, you would think they would but then again perhaps they just dont have the funds to and cant get hold of the capital they would need.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 29, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



*I find your defence of YGT fairly odd. *Nobody has said for definite they dont have the funds to pay the customers back but it's an educated guess many have made. The business model they run means they need new custom to pay for holidays that were had weeks ago, they clearly don't have much of a cash reserve and if they did then it would be worth refunding those who didn't wish for a voucher or a rescheduled break just to avoid the negative PR.

I and I'm sure many others like me will never use YGT after reading how they have treated their customers, they have not been able to provide what they were contracted to provide and therefore you are entitled to a refund. This money is not YGT money, it's the money of hard working people who may need it now more than ever. It's about time YGT did the right thing by their customers, you would think they would but then again perhaps they just dont have the funds to and cant get hold of the capital they would need.
		
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Maybe he's really Chris W from Trust Pilot...


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## Mark1751 (Mar 29, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			I find your defence of YGT fairly odd. Nobody has said for definite they dont have the funds to pay the customers back but it's an educated guess many have made. The business model they run means they need new custom to pay for holidays that were had weeks ago, they clearly don't have much of a cash reserve and if they did then it would be worth refunding those who didn't wish for a voucher or a rescheduled break just to avoid the negative PR.

I and I'm sure many others like me will never use YGT after reading how they have treated their customers, they have not been able to provide what they were contracted to provide and therefore you are entitled to a refund. This money is not YGT money, it's the money of hard working people who may need it now more than ever. It's about time YGT did the right thing by their customers, you would think they would but then again perhaps they just dont have the funds to and cant get hold of the capital they would need.
		
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I’m not defending YGT I just wanted to understand some of you points that you made.


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## Mark1751 (Mar 29, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Maybe he's really Chris W from Trust Pilot... 

Click to expand...

Maybe


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## GB72 (Mar 29, 2020)

I have no real insider knowledge about these things but it does seem that a lot of travel companies live in the edge. You look how many have gone under with even relatively short disruptions in trading conditions.

Not sticking up for the company but can see both sides. If it were my company that I had worked hard to build then I would do all that I could to keep it running however callous that may sound. No point in preserving reputation if there is no company to benefit from that.  That said, if I were a customer then I would be doing the same as is detailed in this thread.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 29, 2020)

GB72 said:



			I have no real insider knowledge about these things but it does seem that a lot of travel companies live in the edge. You look how many have gone under with even relatively short disruptions in trading conditions.

Not sticking up for the company but can see both sides. If it were my company that I had worked hard to build then I would do all that I could to keep it running however callous that may sound. *No point in preserving reputation if there is no company to benefit from that. * That said, if I were a customer then I would be doing the same as is detailed in this thread.
		
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No point in preserving the company if the reputation you get in doing so kills the company off either.


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## Imurg (Mar 29, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			No point in preserving the company if the reputation you get in doing so kills the company off either.
		
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True but YGT have a heck of a lot of satisfied customers who possibly won't worry about the few who seem to be being hung out to dry.


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## road2ruin (Mar 29, 2020)

GB72 said:



			I have no real insider knowledge about these things but it does seem that a lot of travel companies live in the edge. You look how many have gone under with even relatively short disruptions in trading conditions.

Not sticking up for the company but can see both sides. If it were my company that I had worked hard to build then I would do all that I could to keep it running however callous that may sound. No point in preserving reputation if there is no company to benefit from that.  That said, if I were a customer then I would be doing the same as is detailed in this thread.
		
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I agree, until you know how it feels to see a company you’ve worked hard to build up suddenly face bankruptcy through no fault of your own you cannot really comment. 

It might not be morally right what YGT (or any other travel company) are doing however I really doubt they give a flying about reputation at the moment. This is purely about survival, no point being bankrupt but having a brilliant reputation. 

If they come out the other side they will have a load of customers who will probably never book with them again however at least they’ll have a company. Whether it’s recoverable in the long term, who knows however that’s not what many businesses are thinking about at present.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 29, 2020)

Just had a nosey at the trust pilot site, many of the negative posts have been removed, I wouldnt be surprised if YGT contact GM and try and get this deleted.


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## howbow88 (Mar 30, 2020)

Blue in Munich said:



			Maybe he's really Chris W from Trust Pilot... 

Click to expand...


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 30, 2020)

Andrew Harding one of the co-founders and directors is going to ring me this afternoon for a chat about the situation.


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## howbow88 (Mar 30, 2020)

Whilst you're chatting, can you please ask why they removed at least one honest, fair, balanced, polite Trustpilot review? The fact that they have done this has annoyed me more than them trying to keep my money 

And I would guess that Chris W is Chris Williams - Marketing Director of YGT according to LinkedIn. Such a rookie move.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 30, 2020)

Points for discussion with Andrew, if anyone would like to add anything?

Seems to me the travel industry is in dire straits and needs it's customer's good will and patience to help firms survive. Given this I hope YGT are willing to work with its customers to come to amicable solutions regards refunds and to answer all our questions.

Firstly, can you confirm that as the law stands, we are entitled to a full cash refund on 31st March for our breaks that Your Golf Travel have cancelled? For those that stand firm to receive one, will they get it?

Secondly, YGT have said repeatedly that they will only deal with the lead bookers and that refund credit notes could only be used by them. This seems very inflexible especially as some groups are large, with differing circumstances and views, would you consider splitting bookings down to the individual level?

What also hasn’t been discussed is compensation over and above our full refund, the terms and conditions state that we are not entitled to compensation due to cancellation as a result of extraordinary circumstances. I agree if we get refunded in 14 days we don’t get compensation, however if YGT fail to provide a full refund within 14 days in breach of the law, might we may have a case for compensation?

There are some YGT customers stating that they'll take YGT to the small claims court, they're likely to win, what do you say to your customers who are desperate for their money and wish to pursue this course of action?

Are you going to be looking to offer any incentives for groups to take the refund credit notes rather than pursue the cash refund option through ABTA or the courts?
Why have you removed at least one honest, fair, balanced, polite Trustpilot review?


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## Robster59 (Mar 30, 2020)

I don't know if this is of any help.
https://www.insider.co.uk/news/asso...er_Text_Story17&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter


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## Neilds (Mar 30, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Points for discussion with Andrew, if anyone would like to add anything?

Seems to me the travel industry is in dire straits and needs it's customer's good will and patience to help firms survive. Given this I hope YGT are willing to work with its customers to come to amicable solutions regards refunds and to answer all our questions.

Firstly, can you confirm that as the law stands, we are entitled to a full cash refund on 31st March for our breaks that Your Golf Travel have cancelled? For those that stand firm to receive one, will they get it?

Secondly, YGT have said repeatedly that they will only deal with the lead bookers and that refund credit notes could only be used by them. This seems very inflexible especially as some groups are large, with differing circumstances and views, would you consider splitting bookings down to the individual level?

What also hasn’t been discussed is compensation over and above our full refund, the terms and conditions state that we are not entitled to compensation due to cancellation as a result of extraordinary circumstances. I agree if we get refunded in 14 days we don’t get compensation, however if YGT fail to provide a full refund within 14 days in breach of the law, might we may have a case for compensation?

There are some YGT customers stating that they'll take YGT to the small claims court, they're likely to win, what do you say to your customers who are desperate for their money and wish to pursue this course of action?

Are you going to be looking to offer any incentives for groups to take the refund credit notes rather than pursue the cash refund option through ABTA or the courts?
Why have you removed at least one honest, fair, balanced, polite Trustpilot review?
		
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Isn’t your 1st point (2nd paragraph ) a two way thing? Companies need customers to work towards amicable solutions as well. I read a report this weekend about how, if everyone pushes for refunds the companies will go bust and it will take a long time for customers to get any refund, which is highly unlikely to be anything like the full amount.  Be careful what you wish for


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## howbow88 (Mar 30, 2020)

If you paid by credit card and a company goes bust, you'll get back the full amount. This is absolutely not what I want, but worth noting.


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## Stuart_C (Mar 30, 2020)

Good luck Kenny lad, dont fall for none of his salesman spiel.

You're in the right, a full refund is the only way to resolve this issue. If he thinks this is the best way to protect his business then I pity him.


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## chrisd (Mar 30, 2020)

I wouldn't  mess about, I'd settle for nothing less than a full cash refund. YGT knew the position when they took your money and they cannot change the terms of the contract.  Any discussion on credit notes etc is likely to have you ending in a different, and less advantageous position than you currently are now.

If they go bust you will get a full refund from ABTA although it will take some time to come through, but I'd definitely  not accept a credit under any circumstances


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 30, 2020)

Andrew started the call with an apology to me and all the customers affected by this situation.

He agreed as the law stands that customers are entitled to a refund within 14 days ***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****

YGT he says are in a strong position to survive this global crisis and around 5-10% of current customers have not already agreed to rebook or accept the refund credit notes. 

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****

He will be looking to reward those customers who stick with them to help them get through this, but he was none specific what that might be, but mentioned room upgrades, I’m sure he’d be open to suggestions!

The call ended with him agreeing to unblock my twitter account!

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Mar 30, 2020)

Splitting the refunds into each person is weakening your position.  

Stick together and take the fight to the small claims court.  

I genuinely thought Andrew would have seen the issues facing you, the punter, and dropped his harsh business morals and agreed to the full refund you want, within your consumer rights. 

Shame really because when I've used YGT in the past the lad (josh iirc) was  great  and looked after us. I certainly wont be using them again based on this and many other cases.

Good luck Kenny.


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## DaveR (Mar 30, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			In summary I don’t believe YGT are in a position to refund within 14 days everyone’s cash but they may have a small amount to prioritize to the most needy, I personally am not one of those so will most likely wait for the group bookings to be watered down to individual ones and then take my chance with the refund credit note and then take the refund in August or perhaps negotiate a ‘loyalty’ reward and rebook.
		
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I think that is the sensible thing to do


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## chrisd (Mar 30, 2020)

I wouldn't take any credit note unless you're certain that your legal, contractual, position doesnt change. I believe a credit note is worthless if they go bust and potentially you'll get nothing. If they cant pay in 14 days maybe you'd not want to sue them and force them into liquidation, but by not pushing too hard your helping them to stay afloat but retaining the position that you currently enjoy


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 30, 2020)

https://www.abta.com/news/coronavirus-outbreak 

Point 3. half way down the page has an explanation of the refund credit note.


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## Kennysarmy (Mar 31, 2020)

Well the 14th day has come and almost gone and there is no sign of them agreeing to a cash refund.

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Mar 31, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Well the 14th day has come and almost gone and there is no sign of them agreeing to a cash refund.

Even the refund credit notes are now coming with a condition that unless they recoup their costs from 3rd parties then you still might not get your money back when you come to cash them in on 1st August.

Getting more and more likely we will need to take them to court to get our money refunded.
		
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What did you expect Kenny when you folded like a deck of cards speaking to the main man yesterday? 

There are no 3rd parties to claim money off because they havent paid non of them yet as they're on 30-60days credit terms with said  courses/hotels/flights.

Stick to your guns and fight them I'm the small claims court, you will win and get your costs paid etc.


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## CliveW (Mar 31, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Booked through Your Golf Travel, 3 night break to Portugal cancelled this week, are we legally entitled to a refund?

Yes or No?
		
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Jet2 have agreed to refund our tickets due to fly to Belek in 2 weeks.


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## 3offTheTee (Mar 31, 2020)

tried ro cut and paste and ended up with what is below.

However type Your golf travel Limited into google and scroll down until you find the Company’s balance sheet. Plenty of reading


https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/OWRzDH1HBT2pqhzR4NViEV80KaFDiDa-ZJfI2DwlUmk/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Content-=UNSIGNED-PAYLOAD&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3IP5FF2K6%2F20200331%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200331T220716Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEBUaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJIMEYCIQCpDhX8eftc%2Fh3ReKNJHiuG7VESVKQTSWzOSlFC0awlEQIhAJ4smcgM7ySSsJTMvCON0tPQBffRCB0OGNrxZEhQpIDsKrQDCB4QAhoMNDQ5MjI5MDMyODIyIgyjdKwjcMFZWcicOQMqkQNVulkdiJW57ViOSStRe6JEnTpXYy0xo1N10oaUV2AZ7CcxBxm6cqtYm6oE6sXGTfYO%2B5O5MwZwm3mj6hXsgwVPhS6RW37FWOvRc4iTylF7WYiSrM1NbRi%2F7bmAcZ4z9f7CKs9tVDlJN7aHfByBT%2FRNZh69pS6oqlvpnIuPwTmdaIO3O7fyKpod1p%2F6%2BOmSuNHtTnPHqHgy5uDm6zwxkQTC54LlLI5Z6%2BWvAT4TegOszlZP%2Fsx0PXulGp7O5KBxD%2BEHt1uC%2FHrA8ISsviL3I9H4OwNA%2B%2FqvPna%2BQtUK4liPVGABxTIzQS0qw8Ou0Kkly9OEHTGeAcM7Wgm1MbhvhArKv8lXxmm1mDa23UtS0SATE1m58KzJYhCBiCacD6GlXGKdBIQDyX3IS5G6LS0XxJk61BE7DDwhglpHV%2BQfMXVpYfzUxju0TuOKRTMB0xcnGh2Vl1XhN9X7huacit%2F4f2%2F6BlhA%2FIi14foCQfUsuEeSTZtrmtGzHgAkHKinT7%2F8v%2Bzx%2FEsTjc018fUskh4NP4nkwzC%2F2o70BTrqAbGTcv1K0mq1N%2FZF8DW0cBFcSjFWpEnMt2%2BKwElttrNo%2FZvPqcMZKrHIGYbJmUup8arH%2FiT6lSyns2J7Moql30Vgzaf6RNrvCFJ6dHjpi4%2BXxWqR1%2FEcgsoZ9agphHxPFIdkTCQ8WTkTHM6nbsgkUJj3uQJiCsFx15rtS39ieg9N4Psi%2F14GPhMDY7o3GhtJVtN1WhwECV0hw38uj0%2Fac1n5T%2BGnJgNASTprMFjGsQDHdFqp6jfBU1N1AP%2BuSO4RhkwirtHQPClPgI2TeOpSYJ97S%2F%2Ff7ngzKmsp%2Fnolwz%2BEKcxV34yQjjJUAA%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=bc2305d9e343d0ae10ce8bfd370da4676f62e07603ff0da576256d8d597a6c46


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## howbow88 (Apr 1, 2020)

I do have some downtime right now, but could anyone give me a brief rundown of what's on that link?


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 1, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			I do have some downtime right now, but could anyone give me a brief rundown of what's on that link? 

Click to expand...

The link is no good.

As I said google Your golf travel LIMITED a and scroll down until you find the one with Limited. It takes you to the audited accounts for 2019


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			The link is no good.

As I said google Your golf travel LIMITED a and scroll down until you find the one with Limited. *It takes you to the audited accounts for 2019*

Click to expand...

Always bear in mind that those accounts are likely up to end of April 2019 only. A lot can happen, as we now all know, in the 12 months since. They may have had a great 12 months since then, an awful 12 months or somewhere in between. Those accounts online only tell you so much.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Always bear in mind that those accounts are likely up to end of April 2019 only. A lot can happen, as we now all know, in the 12 months since. They may have had a great 12 months since then, an awful 12 months or somewhere in between. Those accounts online only tell you so much.
		
Click to expand...

According to the main man Andrew, the company is in good shape.

They're taking the piss not giving refunds.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			According to the main man Andrew, the company is in good shape.

They're taking the piss not giving refunds.
		
Click to expand...

Never, ever believe the patter of an owner or salesman with regards to the viability of their company. No owner is going to tell their customers they are teeetering on the edge. That would instantly create a panic that would tip them over. I've heard way too much boasting and bluff from companies that have gone under over the years to believe anything that people tell me on that front now. Having a BiL in the insolvency game has also popped the bubble of many an illusion.

They may have been in good shape before all of this but if too many customers ask for a refund then they will be goosed. All businesses depend on cash flow, not every business that goes down is a bad business, most are down to cash flow issues (another comment from my BiL). If they have a rush of demands for refunds then they will not have the cash there to pay them back. YGT are probably trying to spread out the refunds so that they happen in an orderly fashion, one they can manage. If not......................

I understand people wanting their money back, I am not defending the approach of YGT but I can understand that beneath the water they are likely fighting for their own survival right now and so they are trying every trick they can to hold on to any cash that they have.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Always bear in mind that those accounts are likely up to end of April 2019 only. A lot can happen, as we now all know, in the 12 months since. They may have had a great 12 months since then, an awful 12 months or somewhere in between. Those accounts online only tell you so much.
		
Click to expand...

The link is interesting and suggest Kenny  has a look.

AccountS fro Group are up to 31/3/19 and a profit was made last year. There are creditors of £44,400,000, yes not a typo, and Net Current Liabilities of 1,060,000. Directors are stable and shows what other Companies they are involved with And who they are.


Barclays took a Debenture including Fixed and floating assets LESS than 1 month ago which is a concern for anybody owed money


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Never, ever believe the patter of an owner or salesman with regards to the viability of their company. No owner is going to tell their customers they are teeetering on the edge. That would instantly create a panic that would tip them over. I've heard way too much boasting and bluff from companies that have gone under over the years to believe anything that people tell me on that front now. Having a BiL in the insolvency game has also popped the bubble of many an illusion.

They may have been in good shape before all of this but if too many customers ask for a refund then they will be goosed. All businesses depend on cash flow, not every business that goes down is a bad business, most are down to cash flow issues (another comment from my BiL). If they have a rush of demands for refunds then they will not have the cash there to pay them back. YGT are probably trying to spread out the refunds so that they happen in an orderly fashion, one they can manage. If not......................

I understand people wanting their money back, I am not defending the approach of YGT but I can understand that beneath the water they are likely fighting for their own survival right now and so they are trying every trick they can to hold on to any cash that they have.
		
Click to expand...

I know, I missed the roll eyes smiley off my post 👍


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			The link is interesting and suggest Kenny  has a look.

AccountS fro Group are up to 31/3/19 and a profit was made last year. There are creditors of £44,400,000, yes not a typo, and Net Current Liabilities of 1,060,000. Directors are stable and shows what other Companies they are involved with And who they are.


*Barclays took a Debenture including Fixed and floating assets LESS than 1 month ago which is a concern for anybody owed money*

Click to expand...

What does that mean in layman's terms?


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What does that mean in layman's terms?
		
Click to expand...

S
It means if the Company goes into liquidation The Bank has first call on say any Freehold property(fixed charge) and any stock, debtors plant and machinery (floating items) these obviously change up to the amount of any debt to Barclays Bank


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## Kennysarmy (Apr 1, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			S
It means if the Company goes into liquidation The Bank has first call on say any Freehold property(fixed charge) and any stock, debtors plant and machinery (floating items) these obviously change up to the amount of any debt to Barclays Bank
		
Click to expand...

Are you saying if we take them to the small claims court, as my group has voted to do, and others do the same, and it forces them in to liquidation, then we'll be at the back of the queue for reclaiming any costs and it might have been all in vain and we'd be even more out of pocket having paid for the small courts claim?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I know, I missed the roll eyes smiley off my post 👍
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha, that makes the difference 

My BiL told me a story a while ago on the issue of bluff, one of his earliest jobs in insolvency. He was sent to a company that had gone down. He went to see the MD at his home as the staff mentioned his list of cars. He turned up at the house, think footballers house, long drive, lions on the gate, fountain etc. He sees a Lambo, Aston Martin, Range Rover. Happy days, lots of money to recover there. Every car was leased, £7k per month in total , the house was rented, fully furnished. The bloke acted like a millionaire but didn't have a penny to his name, was not going to have a roof over his head or a car to drive within the week. All were being reclaimed by the various finance companies. 

That is his most extreme example but he has a host of similar stories. There is an awful lot of supposedly flash MD's out there who are up to their eyes in debt, finance etc. Smoke and mirrors.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Are you saying if we take them to the small claims court, as my group has voted to do, and others do the same, and it forces them in to liquidation, then we'll be at the back of the queue for reclaiming any costs and it might have been all in vain and we'd be even more out of pocket having paid for the small courts claim?
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much. HMRC always come first, Barclays will come second. The insolvency company will then take their obscene charges. You would be fighting with everyone else they owe money to, if there is anything left after that. Liquidation would not help you in this, there is rarely any money left for debtors in that situation, pennies in the pound at best.


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## Kennysarmy (Apr 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Pretty much. HMRC always come first, Barclays will come second. The insolvency company will then take their obscene charges. You would be fighting with everyone else they owe money to, if there is anything left after that. Liquidation would not help you in this, there is rarely any money left for debtors in that situation, pennies in the pound at best.
		
Click to expand...

But we could then claim for our money back under the ATOL scheme?


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## robbeh32 (Apr 1, 2020)

I just paid the rest of my holiday. I Paid on my credit card I also have travel insurance with barclays. They told me to pay and go and if its cancelled I would get my money back. If I chose not to go then I wouldn't.


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Pretty much. HMRC always come first, Barclays will come second. The insolvency company will then take their obscene charges. You would be fighting with everyone else they owe money to, if there is anything left after that. Liquidation would not help you in this, there is rarely any money left for debtors in that situation, pennies in the pound at best.
		
Click to expand...

In the words of the song by Meatloaf”You took the words right out of my mouth”


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			But we could then claim for our money back under the ATOL scheme?
		
Click to expand...

I don't see that it would impact. You would not go on a naughty list because you tried to reclaim your money. They are totally separate actions, grudges are not held.

All that would be lost would be the money to bring the case in the first place.

Let's hope that none of it is necessary or if it is then they can pay and stay afloat


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## Dibby (Apr 1, 2020)

Reading through this rollercoaster. I actually sympathise with both sides. It's like a classic game theory prisoners dilemma. The best outcome for everyone is for all parties to cooperate, but the rational decision for each party is to act in their self-interest and not cooperate, therefore the actual outcome is non-cooperation and both sides lose.

I have sympathy with the customers that have lost their money,  but equally, I have sympathy for the businesses and employees who will lose their livelihoods. 

Without any research at all, it is obvious ATOL\ABTA are not bonded with the full amount of all holidays booked at any given time. They are designed to cover relatively small scale failures, not whole market failures. The optimal outcome for everyone is for the companies involved to keep operating and the customers to get alternative holidays, otherwise it becomes a zero-sum game and for every customer who gets a refund, x customers will get shafted, along with the company and its employees.

Understandable why everyone involved is frustrated, but from a distanced view, there is no easy solution.


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## GB72 (Apr 1, 2020)

Dibby said:



			Reading through this rollercoaster. I actually sympathise with both sides. It's like a classic game theory prisoners dilemma. The best outcome for everyone is for all parties to cooperate, but the rational decision for each party is to act in their self-interest and not cooperate, therefore the actual outcome is non-cooperation and both sides lose.

I have sympathy with the customers that have lost their money,  but equally, I have sympathy for the businesses and employees who will lose their livelihoods.

Without any research at all, it is obvious ATOL\ABTA are not bonded with the full amount of all holidays booked at any given time. They are designed to cover relatively small scale failures, not whole market failures. The optimal outcome for everyone is for the companies involved to keep operating and the customers to get alternative holidays, otherwise it becomes a zero-sum game and for every customer who gets a refund, x customers will get shafted, along with the company and its employees.

Understandable why everyone involved is frustrated, but from a distanced view, there is no easy solution.
		
Click to expand...

It is a good point well made. If this is happening across the travel industry you would have to ask whether ATOL is sufficiently funded to cover all of the refunds and the proposed move to vouchers seems to suggest that this may well be the case. Unfortunately, I feel that a lot of people are going to lose out totally on holidays, flights etc. Personal opinion, time it would take to put a claim through the courts at the moment, you are talking several months and this will have played out by then. Even with a judgement, you are no higher up the pecking order of debtors but you will have incurred further costs. And if there are a number of court cases raised or one large one, the company goes into voluntary liuquidation. No real answer to this but riding it out would appear to be the best option if only to minimise losses.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

3offTheTee said:



			S
It means if the Company goes into liquidation The Bank has first call on say any Freehold property(fixed charge) and any stock, debtors plant and machinery (floating items) these obviously change up to the amount of any debt to Barclays Bank
		
Click to expand...

What would make them do that? Could it be a guarantee for a loan or finance of sort?


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## GB72 (Apr 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			What would make them do that? Could it be a guarantee for a loan or finance of sort?
		
Click to expand...

Yes, a debenture is sort of like a corporate mortgage but because assets change all the time, it is over whatever the company owns at any given time.


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## Green Bay Hacker (Apr 1, 2020)

We were due to go on a 2 day YGT trip next weekend (about 40). The organiser has accepted a provisional date in August (bit optimistic) for us to go but at an additional cost of £10 due to it being at peak times (not a problem). As things are going though we will be lucky to have any firms left that will be around to offer these trips in a few months.


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## rosecott (Apr 1, 2020)

12 of us are booked for a week in Belek, flying out on 23rd April. Clearly, this is not going to happen and I'm now pretty well resigned in my own mind to the loss of the holiday and the grand or so we have all paid. I really cannot see any other outcome than YGT going bust. In the light of what is happening to huge numbers of people up and down the country, I will bite the bullet. I will tell myself that money has gone and, in that last week of April, I will console myself with the thought that I will probably be in a better place than the huge numbers I already mentioned.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

Green Bay Hacker said:



			We were due to go on a 2 day YGT trip next weekend (about 40). The organiser has accepted a provisional date in August (bit optimistic) for us to go but at an additional cost of £10 due to it being at peak times (not a problem). As things are going though we will be lucky to have any firms left that will be around to offer these trips in a few months.
		
Click to expand...

In fairness if you can rearrange and it suits you and your party then that’s great but you shouldn’t be paying a penny more peak or not.

it seems that YGT are an absolute cut throat business who put making money above anything else at all.


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## robbeh32 (Apr 1, 2020)

rosecott said:



			12 of us are booked for a week in Belek, flying out on 23rd April. Clearly, this is not going to happen and I'm now pretty well resigned in my own mind to the loss of the holiday and the grand or so we have all paid. I really cannot see any other outcome than YGT going bust. In the light of what is happening to huge numbers of people up and down the country, I will bite the bullet. I will tell myself that money has gone and, in that last week of April, I will console myself with the thought that I will probably be in a better place than the huge numbers I already mentioned.
		
Click to expand...

No Travel insurance or anything?


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## CliveW (Apr 1, 2020)

OK so an update on Jet2. We spoke to them last week regarding our flights to Turkey on 14 April and were advised that we would be due a refund. I checked my bank balance today and the total amount has been paid. Well done Jet2.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			In fairness if you can rearrange and it suits you and your party then that’s great but you shouldn’t be paying a penny more peak or not.

it seems that YGT are an absolute cut throat business who put making money above anything else at all.
		
Click to expand...

I know I am constantly sounding like an apologist for YGT here but it may be the golf course that are adding that. April tends to be the last bargain month and then summer fees kick in (hence why my trips are always in April ). The difference can be pretty hefty, particularly at flash clubs.

In the case given, I obviously don't know the courses involved, an extra £10 to go in August seems pretty decent.


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## Kennysarmy (Apr 1, 2020)

rosecott said:



			12 of us are booked for a week in Belek, flying out on 23rd April. Clearly, this is not going to happen and I'm now pretty well resigned in my own mind to the loss of the holiday and the grand or so we have all paid. I really cannot see any other outcome than YGT going bust. In the light of what is happening to huge numbers of people up and down the country, I will bite the bullet. I will tell myself that money has gone and, in that last week of April, I will console myself with the thought that I will probably be in a better place than the huge numbers I already mentioned.
		
Click to expand...

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Kennysarmy (Apr 1, 2020)

robbeh32 said:



			No Travel insurance or anything?
		
Click to expand...

Travel insurance is mainly for health issues etc, they have no interest in customers who can't get refunds. 
If YGT go bust that's a different situation.


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## robbeh32 (Apr 1, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Travel insurance is mainly for health issues etc, they have no interest in customers who can't get refunds.
If YGT go bust that's a different situation.
		
Click to expand...

My Barclays travel insurance have told me they would cover everything if it gets cancelled.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I know I am constantly sounding like an apologist for YGT here but it may be the golf course that are adding that. April tends to be the last bargain month and then summer fees kick in (hence why my trips are always in April ). The difference can be pretty hefty, particularly at flash clubs.

*In the case given, I obviously don't know the courses involved, an extra £10 to go in August seems pretty decent.*

Click to expand...

Under the Circumstances to try and repair the damage they’ve done to their own brand, I’d expect YGT to waive the extra £10.


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## rosecott (Apr 1, 2020)

robbeh32 said:



			No Travel insurance or anything?
		
Click to expand...

Our organiser always ensures that he has details of everyone's travel insurance.


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## rosecott (Apr 1, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			If you're interested I can add you to the Whatsapp group?
		
Click to expand...


I have already pointed our organiser to this thread. His dealings with YGT mirror yours.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 1, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Under the Circumstances to try and repair the damage they’ve done to their own brand, I’d expect YGT to waive the extra £10.
		
Click to expand...

That's a fair comment. My own trip puts a big chunk on that I wouldn't expect them to absorb but £10 a person should be waived as a goodwill gesture.


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## Kennysarmy (Apr 1, 2020)

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Apr 1, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Everyone in the WhatsApp group is resigned to the fact that they've taken a commercial decision to refuse ALL claims for cash refunds. We're all now looking to claim that money back via credit and debit card protection schemes or small claims court.

*The groups total is likely to be about £60,000*

Click to expand...

Ouch.

No feckin wonder he doesnt wanna give a cash refund!!

Good Luck though, you’re going to need it.


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## Doodle (Apr 1, 2020)

Just quickly read through this thread 😡
I was listening to a guy on the radio the other day, it was a consumer phone in & he was a lawyer advising on consumer law.
One phone call concerned a ABTA bonded package holiday which had been cancelled, the caller had only been offered a credit note in recompense.
The lawyer advised that the caller was legally entitled to a full cash refund, he advised that if this was not forthcoming then the next port of call was ABTA.

the caveat at the end of the call was that because the travel industry as a whole is in deep doo doo, the Government was actively thinking of allowing ABTA to not force travel companies to give cash refunds, but to only offer a rearranged date or a credit note.

The lawyer advised the caller to contact ABTA asap before this became official policy.


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## HampshireHog (Apr 2, 2020)

Our travel insurance has just turned round and declared COVID an act of God and told us we aren’t covered.🤬


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## KenL (Apr 2, 2020)

HampshireHog said:



			Our travel insurance has just turned round and declared COVID an act of God and told us we aren’t covered.🤬
		
Click to expand...

So wildlife murderers in a certain country are Gods now are they?


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2020)

HampshireHog said:



			Our travel insurance has just turned round and declared COVID an act of God and told us we aren’t covered.🤬
		
Click to expand...

Is there an insurers ombudsman you can take that to? We have already had notification from our travel insurers advising that we are covered as we booked before this kicked off. The same for my daughters insurance which is with a different company. I know, all to painfully, that business interruption insurance is not paying out on this but travel insurance generally is.


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## HampshireHog (Apr 2, 2020)

It’s sitting with the travel agents and ABTA at the moment I feel once the flights are actually cancelled we are in stronger position.  Due to fly out Sunday so feeling nervous as we’re in about 16k on this holiday.


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 2, 2020)

HampshireHog said:



			It’s sitting with the travel agents and ABTA at the moment I feel once the flights are actually cancelled we are in stronger position.  Due to fly out Sunday so feeling nervous as we’re in about 16k on this holiday.
		
Click to expand...

I didn't realise passenger flights were still happening. Can't believe they have not been cancelled already. Fully understand your nervousness with that amount at stake.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 2, 2020)

HampshireHog said:



			It’s sitting with the travel agents and ABTA at the moment I feel once the flights are actually cancelled we are in stronger position.  Due to fly out Sunday so feeling nervous as we’re in about 16k on this holiday.
		
Click to expand...

Ouch


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## 3offTheTee (Apr 2, 2020)

HampshireHog said:



			It’s sitting with the travel agents and ABTA at the moment I feel once the flights are actually cancelled we are in stronger position.  Due to fly out Sunday so feeling nervous as we’re in about 16k on this holiday.
		
Click to expand...

Hope it gets sorted . May I ask where you are flying to please and with which airline?


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## HampshireHog (Apr 2, 2020)

LA with Virgin Atlantic


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## CliveW (Apr 10, 2020)

Full refund for our trip to Turkey next week has arrived. Well done Bilyana Golf!


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## Kennysarmy (Apr 10, 2020)

ABTA are now vowing to crack down on tour operators who don't offer refunds (https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/arti...own-on-members-denying-customer-refund-rights)

Strange as many operators have been hiding behind the words of ABTA for the last 3 weeks!

***** Part of this reply or comment has had to be deleted *****


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## Stuart_C (Apr 10, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Your Golf Travel have still not refunded anyone in the WhatsApp group that I setup (*and have since left - as the stress was causing me some mental health issues)*

The total amount owed to all the groups involved was over £100k, lie after lie and broken promise after promise.

ABTA are now vowing to crack down on tour operators who don't offer refunds (https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/arti...own-on-members-denying-customer-refund-rights)

Strange as many operators have been hiding behind the words of ABTA for the last 3 weeks!

This was one of the best lies from YGT during the back n forth emails with them:

"In light of this development Tour Operators have been advised that they are justified in these situations to hold back on making any refunds (of any kind) until such a time, pending feedback on further development on this approach from ABTA to the government."
		
Click to expand...

I hope you’re ok Kenny, don’t let it get you down man.


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## Fish (Apr 11, 2020)

Kennysarmy said:



			Your Golf Travel have still not refunded anyone in the WhatsApp group that I setup (and have since left - as the stress was causing me some mental health issues)

The total amount owed to all the groups involved was over £100k, lie after lie and broken promise after promise.

ABTA are now vowing to crack down on tour operators who don't offer refunds (https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/arti...own-on-members-denying-customer-refund-rights)

Strange as many operators have been hiding behind the words of ABTA for the last 3 weeks!

This was one of the best lies from YGT during the back n forth emails with them:

"In light of this development Tour Operators have been advised that they are justified in these situations to hold back on making any refunds (of any kind) until such a time, pending feedback on further development on this approach from ABTA to the government."
		
Click to expand...

I watched this, and I’d assume the attitude of many people who need their money now due to these circumstances were straight onto the companies they booked through quoting the CEO and are now demanding their refunds! 

They’ll be a few companies go bump though and take a few down with them, I think many travel agents/companies will have paid airlines & hotels etc and will be struggling to get that money back quickly, if at all, so some will fold up as a result, do a pre-pack and be back up and running within days!


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			I watched this, and I’d assume the attitude of many people who need their money now due to these circumstances were straight onto the companies they booked through quoting the CEO and are now demanding their refunds!

They’ll be a few companies go bump though and take a few down with them. 
*I think many travel agents/companies will have paid airlines & hotels etc and will be struggling to get that money back quickly, if at all,* so some will fold up as a result, do a pre-pack and be back up and running within days!
		
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Disagree there, YGT and the likes are usually on 60day payment terms and that's not usually paid until after the holiday has been completed and theres no complaint.


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## Fish (Apr 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			Disagree there, YGT and the likes are usually on 60day payment terms and that's not usually paid until after the holiday has been completed and theres no complaint.
		
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I haven’t mentioned YGT specifically and I’m just repeating what was put forward to and discussed with the CEO of ABTA, as he said, most wont have the funds to pay everyone back immediately for this reason.


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			I haven’t mentioned YGT specifically and I’m just repeating what was put forward to and discussed with the CEO of ABTA, as he said, most wont have the funds to pay everyone back immediately for this reason.
		
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I know, I mentioned YGT... I seen the interview with the CEO of ABTA.

All of what i said above applies to pretty much everyone in the leisure and travel business. None of them pay up front.

They're all on 30-60days terms, so theres no money to claim back because they havent paid for hotels/flights yet.

In essence  you pay £3k for a holiday to greece with tui, they dont pay for the hotel til 60days after you've got back but they've had your money 6 wks before you're due to go.


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## Fish (Apr 11, 2020)

Stuart_C said:



			I know, I mentioned YGT... I seen the interview with the CEO of ABTA.

All of what i said above applies to pretty much everyone in the leisure and travel business. None of them pay up front.

They're all on 30-60days terms, so theres no money to claim back because they havent paid for hotels/flights yet.

In essence  you pay £3k for a holiday to greece with tui, they dont pay for the hotel til 60days after you've got back but they've had your money 6 wks before you're due to go.
		
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So on that premise why the deliberate delay in refunds?


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## Del_Boy (Apr 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			So on that premise why the deliberate delay in refunds?
		
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They’ve probably spent the 3k on adverts, wages etc.  Expecting 3k+ coming into the coffers within the next 30/60 days in order to pay the bills for the 3k holiday


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2020)

Fish said:



			So on that premise why the deliberate delay in refunds?
		
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I'm assuming they havent got the actual capital to do so, hence relying on customers rebooking and taking credit notes. If everyone demands a refund they'll be out of business. They're used to a constant stream of sales, deposits etc to sustain. That's come to a complete standstill.

Dont forget the likes of YGT/Racing Breaks /Golf Breaks etc have massive amounts of staff.


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## Trojan615 (Apr 11, 2020)

Are they still paying mark crossfield ?


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## Stuart_C (Apr 11, 2020)

Trojan615 said:



			Are they still paying mark crossfield ?
		
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Anyone paying him needs their head testing.


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