# Crossfield v Whoever



## albie999 (Feb 28, 2020)

Spotted on twitter, bit of a crossfield v whoever spat going on again ... interesting


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233311129071431680


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2020)

Almost seems like a direct response to that Orka video with Liam from GolfMates where Alex (Orka) says words to that effect - that the clubhead is irrelevant in comparison to the shaft.

(Edit: I only just opened the tweet and responses to see Alex is already involved, ha.)


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## Imurg (Feb 28, 2020)

Popcorn anyone..?
This could get interesting


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## Kellfire (Feb 28, 2020)

Does them both good; generates discussion. I’m always suspicious of these “spats”.


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## MendieGK (Feb 28, 2020)

Kellfire said:



			Does them both good; generates discussion. I’m always suspicious of these “spats”.
		
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Obviously as an employee I am
Biased to Alex, but marks post stinks of - Orka is a hot topic at the moment on the golf forums/Facebook groups etc, so I’m going to say something to try and steal their limelight. 

I’ve made it very clear I cannot stand Crossfield (way before I ever worked for Orka), and stuff like this is exactly why


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## Depreston (Feb 28, 2020)

He does go on like an absolute weapon the way he puts across opinions is very aggressive


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## Jacko_G (Feb 28, 2020)

I shall pass on this popcorn thread. 

I see dead people at times and I see through a lot of Tom Kite also. 

A casual observer I shall be!


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## chrisd (Feb 28, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			Obviously as an employee I am
Biased to Alex, but marks post stinks of - Orka is a hot topic at the moment on the golf forums/Facebook groups etc, so I’m going to say something to try and steal their limelight.

I’ve made it very clear I cannot stand Crossfield (way before I ever worked for Orka), and stuff like this is exactly why
		
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Who is the nearest Orka fitter in Kent Sam?


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## MendieGK (Feb 28, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Who is the nearest Orka fitter in Kent Sam?
		
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Fabio @ London Performance Golf Academy (Bexleyheath Golf Club)


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Who is the nearest Orka fitter in Kent Sam?
		
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what will you do with a set of "keepers" Chris lol


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## howbow88 (Feb 28, 2020)

This gives Mark Crossfield:

A) Publicity, which likely means more video views, which means money in his pocket.

B) Attention, which he seems to so desperately crave. 

I do get that this is kind of his game now, but from the outside he just appears like a bit of a tit. I'll never forget how badly he came across on that Daily Mail video - you have to do quite well to make yourself look bad when they're on the opposing side.


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## pokerjoke (Feb 28, 2020)

Depreston said:



			He does go on like an absolute weapon the way he puts across opinions is very aggressive
		
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Usually it’s his opinion and nothing else matters.


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## Orikoru (Feb 28, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			This gives Mark Crossfield:

A) Publicity, which likely means more video views, which means money in his pocket.

B) Attention, which he seems to so desperately crave.

I do get that this is kind of his game now, but from the outside he just appears like a bit of a tit. I'll never forget how badly he came across on that *Daily Mail video *- you have to do quite well to make yourself look bad when they're on the opposing side.
		
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What video is that?


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## GB72 (Feb 28, 2020)

Sadly it is an argument that cannot be won on Twitter. If you engage then he gets attention and potentially views on his channel (though he does appear unwilling to engage back with those countering his views) and if you do not engage then he will take the stance that he must be right as nobody challenged him. Meanwhile, as with most people with a certain level of following, the rabid keyboard warrior fans will begin attacking anyone who speaks against him. Happens in all sorts of review circles on social media.


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## slicer79 (Feb 28, 2020)

Personally I don’t agree it’s shaft only 

Anything I’ve read would always suggest it must be combination of shaft and head


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## howbow88 (Feb 28, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			What video is that?
		
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A few years back he put a very poorly worded poll on twitter, and it came across as a bit sexist. Lynx golf jumped on it and gave him a bit of a telling off. Instead of backing down, Crossfield in his typical style told everyone that they were wrong and he was right, pretty much. The Daily Mail saw the chance of a story and so reported on it in their fairly typical style. 

Crossfield then talked with them on the phone as he disputed bits of the article, recorded it and posted it on Youtube, and generally came across as an utter douche bag.


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## inc0gnito (Feb 28, 2020)

I like his stuff less and less these days  but he’s always been a bit of a know-it-all holier than thou douchebag.


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## chrisd (Feb 28, 2020)

fundy said:



			what will you do with a set of "keepers" Chris lol
		
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Flog em after 6 months - only joking  😋


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Flog em after 6 months - only joking  😋
		
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can i tell you what spec to order then


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## robinthehood (Feb 28, 2020)

inc0gnito said:



			I like his stuff less and less these days  but he’s always been a bit of a know-it-all holier than thou douchebag.
		
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Some of his videos are quite informative , but he does like the sound of his own voice.


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## albie999 (Feb 28, 2020)

Another interesting video, on where they mention if you have the right shaft, you technically should be able to hit any head


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## MendieGK (Feb 28, 2020)

albie999 said:



			Another interesting video, on where they mention if you have the right shaft, you technically should be able to hit any head







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You mean Alex wasn’t lying? 😂


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## SteveJay (Feb 28, 2020)

Not a huge Crossfield fan, but all the mainstream manufacturers brand their different iron heads as game improvement, lower handicapper etc. which suggests they must think it isn't just about the shaft?


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## bluewolf (Feb 28, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			Not a huge Crossfield fan, but all the mainstream manufacturers brand their different iron heads as game improvement, lower handicapper etc. which suggests they must think it isn't just about the shaft?
		
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It isn’t. It’s about the profits...


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## bagcarrier (Feb 28, 2020)

I've seen that video and the young guy fitting the clubs really knows his stuff , sacrificing distance for tighter dispersion was impressive as most would run with the extra 10 yards distance.

As for Crassfield yawn...


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2020)

I do like some of the Crossfield stuff but this does seem to smack of sourness after Alex came over so informatively in Liam's video and clearly his opinion about shafts doesn't sit with Crossfields and is polar opposite to what Crossfield has said for many years. I see GM decided to put something up about shafts today? Dabbling a toe in the debate? https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/vide...LYksOFeUo1yd2qajX58cBpXqfb-DRW0f8Yu80KE9Vygo4


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## User20204 (Feb 28, 2020)

jobr1850 said:



			Cant stand Crossfield the guy is a @@@t.
		
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He speaks highly of you to.


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## xreyuk (Feb 28, 2020)

I can't say Alex isn't a good fitter, 1. His videos do seem to get results, 2. I've never been fitted by him so I can't say.

However, he comes across supremely arrogant in any video I've seen him in, like he knows completely better than the whole of the golfing industry - he doesn't, or he'd be a mega-millionaire. His clubs seem good, but I think any decent fitter could get similar or better results than he does, in 3 or 4 head/shaft combinations, from any manufacturer and Alex acts like only his clubs are any good and everyone else's are shite. I think the problem in the industry is poorly educated fitters, as opposed to poor equipment.

I think people who don't like Alex are put off by his personality rather than his fitting.

As for Crossfield, his content has gone quite poor in recent times, and I understand his point in these tweets, but he seems to say them in an inflammatory way on purpose, this could have easily been said in a better way, where more people are actually likely to follow his advice. The way he tweets seems to be for attention


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## JamesR (Feb 28, 2020)

From the few videos I’ve seen of Alex @ Orka; he seems to suggest that whatever head you choose, he will find a shaft to make it work (spin, launch etc)

His other main focus seems to be that whatever club you’ve been fit for by the mainstream brands, the club you get may not match that fitting ( loft, weight etc).


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## fundy (Feb 28, 2020)

xreyuk said:



			I can't say Alex isn't a good fitter, 1. His videos do seem to get results, 2. I've never been fitted by him so I can't say.

However, he comes across supremely arrogant in any video I've seen him in, like he knows completely better than the whole of the golfing industry - he doesn't, or he'd be a mega-millionaire. His clubs seem good, but I think any decent fitter could get similar or better results than he does, in 3 or 4 head/shaft combinations, from any manufacturer and Alex acts like only his clubs are any good and everyone else's are shite. I think the problem in the industry is poorly educated fitters, as opposed to poor equipment.

I think people who don't like Alex are put off by his personality rather than his fitting.

As for Crossfield, his content has gone quite poor in recent times, and I understand his point in these tweets, but he seems to say them in an inflammatory way on purpose, this could have easily been said in a better way, where more people are actually likely to follow his advice. The way he tweets seems to be for attention
		
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Were all welcome to our opinions, heres one from real life meetings with Alex rather than from a few videos.

Alex is one of the most down to earth guys you could ever meet in this industry who goes above and beyond for many of his customers, me included (more than once!). If you actually listened you would know he actually rates a couple of the OEMs (based on their tolerances and the quality of sets he sees from those manufacturers). Do you really expect someone who has his own brand of clubs not to promote his own product above his competitors? Seriously?

To give you an insight, he reshafted and rebuilt a driver head I had from another manufacturer with the right shaft and grip rather than sell me one of his own heads (as he could easily have done) as the performance of the two wouldve been similar for me

As for fitters, Alex for a few years has actually been working with some of the best fitters all round the country to ensure that they can offer his product and fitting to a level to ensure the customer gets custom built as they would if they had done direct. 

One of the biggest issues in the industry is actually poorly built clubs from the OEMs who have large tolerances and still fail to build to them, yet the paying public thinks theyve been custom fit so everything is great with the set of irons theyve paid £1000 for that are actually nothing like what they ordered!


Go and meet the fella, pretty sure you'd come away with a different opinion


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## Philbleasy (Feb 28, 2020)

Alex is a great guy, I was lucky enough to be fit by him. As he always states it not custom fit it’s custom built. I was fit for my previous irons which where Mizuno MP25 loved them but when everything was checked the lofts where all about 2.5 deg stronger and the swing weights where all over the place. So there was nothing wrong with my fitting I had for the Mizuno just how badly they where built. I have gained about 12 yds per club with my new Orka irons and they are about 4 degs weaker. I’ve always found shafts the main changing point in a fitting so no idea what Crossfields going on about


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## garyinderry (Feb 29, 2020)

albie999 said:



			Another interesting video, on where they mention if you have the right shaft, you technically should be able to hit any head







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Not really sure that was exactly what he was saying.  He said if you have no trouble finding the middle of the bat then work away and pick any head. 

Your man was a pretty decent ball striker if a little high on the face so no real massive gains to be had from choosing a tech filled game improvement iron.


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## Bean bonce (Feb 29, 2020)

There is nothing wrong with trusting in your product and being confident with it. In the video with liam, which is all i have to go on with not knowing the guy. He seemed very knowledgeable and every prediction he made was spot on. 

I would trust his word over crossfields anyday


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## DaveR (Feb 29, 2020)

pokerjoke said:



			Usually it’s his opinion and nothing else matters.
		
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He would fit in very well on this forum then. In my opinion.


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## howbow88 (Feb 29, 2020)

I had a fitting with Alex, he's a nice guy. Is he arrogante? A little bit, bit not really in a bad way. He's just confident in what he is doing. 

I'll also add that there were a couple of issues with my order, but he sorted them out for me afterwards. That doesn't strike me as someone who is arrogant. 

The best compliment I can give Alex and friends is that a few pros at my place who have never heard of Orka, have had a quick whack with my clubs and all of them said they felt great.


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## Blue in Munich (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Were all welcome to our opinions, heres one from real life meetings with Alex rather than from a few videos.

Alex is one of the most down to earth guys you could ever meet in this industry who goes above and beyond for many of his customers, me included (more than once!). If you actually listened you would know *he actually rates a couple of the OEMs (based on their tolerances and the quality of sets he sees from those manufacturers)*. Do you really expect someone who has his own brand of clubs not to promote his own product above his competitors? Seriously?

To give you an insight, he reshafted and rebuilt a driver head I had from another manufacturer with the right shaft and grip rather than sell me one of his own heads (as he could easily have done) as the performance of the two wouldve been similar for me

As for fitters, Alex for a few years has actually been working with some of the best fitters all round the country to ensure that they can offer his product and fitting to a level to ensure the customer gets custom built as they would if they had done direct.

One of the biggest issues in the industry is actually poorly built clubs from the OEMs who have large tolerances and still fail to build to them, yet the paying public thinks theyve been custom fit so everything is great with the set of irons theyve paid £1000 for that are actually nothing like what they ordered!


Go and meet the fella, pretty sure you'd come away with a different opinion
		
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He mentioned Ping as good in the video, and said there were a couple of others; do you happen to know which ones?  If you know & would prefer not to post would you PM them?


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## hovis (Feb 29, 2020)

I hate crossfield but I agree with he's tweet.    the shaft absolutely makes a difference to the golfer but not in the same ball park as the majority of golfers think.  People desperately want it to be the case so they can be "individual or unique"


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 29, 2020)

Just had a good read through it all and a couple of things clearly stick out 

1. Alex clearly likes a bit of social media banter and I guess to some it can be a bit brash

2. Crossfield clearly is becoming less and less relevant - found him to be very annoying but now he just seems like an empty vessel and made himself look foolish 

3. Alex obviously knows his stuff - and there are enough people on here who know him and also work with him. His brand is superb

4. What actually does Crossfield do beyond loud noises on the Internet ? Does he know club building as well as people like Alex ?

going through it all and it seems only one of them came through with their head held high and it wasn’t Crossfield


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## hovis (Feb 29, 2020)

fundy said:



			Were all welcome to our opinions, heres one from real life meetings with Alex rather than from a few videos.

Alex is one of the most down to earth guys you could ever meet in this industry who goes above and beyond for many of his customers, me included (more than once!). If you actually listened you would know he actually rates a couple of the OEMs (based on their tolerances and the quality of sets he sees from those manufacturers). Do you really expect someone who has his own brand of clubs not to promote his own product above his competitors? Seriously?

To give you an insight, he reshafted and rebuilt a driver head I had from another manufacturer with the right shaft and grip rather than sell me one of his own heads (as he could easily have done) as the performance of the two wouldve been similar for me

As for fitters, Alex for a few years has actually been working with some of the best fitters all round the country to ensure that they can offer his product and fitting to a level to ensure the customer gets custom built as they would if they had done direct.

One of the biggest issues in the industry is actually poorly built clubs from the OEMs who have large tolerances and still fail to build to them, yet the paying public thinks theyve been custom fit so everything is great with the set of irons theyve paid £1000 for that are actually nothing like what they ordered!


Go and meet the fella, pretty sure you'd come away with a different opinion
		
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i had a similar experience with a orka fitter.  he told me my swing weights and lofts were all off. I even watched him measure them.  i decided not to use him as he was a cock to a junior golfer.  when i went elsewhere the club builder told me my clubs where spot on.  Well, apart from my p wedge that was 1 degree too strong.  everytime I speak to someone that went to him they all said how he bashes the way mainstream clubs are made and why you should buy his


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## GB72 (Feb 29, 2020)

DaveR said:



			He would fit in very well on this forum then. In my opinion.
		
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He tried that once was hounded off by trolls


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## howbow88 (Mar 1, 2020)

hovis said:



			i had a similar experience with a orka fitter.  he told me my swing weights and lofts were all off. I even watched him measure them.  i decided not to use him as he was a cock to a junior golfer.  when i went elsewhere the club builder told me my clubs where spot on.  Well, apart from my p wedge that was 1 degree too strong.  everytime I speak to someone that went to him they all said how he bashes the way mainstream clubs are made and why you should buy his
		
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I'm confused by this post?


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## hovis (Mar 1, 2020)

howbow88 said:



			I'm confused by this post?
		
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣sorry, I quoted the wrong post


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## tugglesf239 (Mar 1, 2020)

Regardless of who is correct and who is not. 

Who on earth would want to engage with a brat like Crossfield in ‘discussion’ 

He’s a showboating weapon of a man child. 

Bruh...


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## Parsaregood (Mar 1, 2020)

Crossfield is a tosser, he doesnt know how to bite his tongue and its cost him big. his channel was once the biggest on YouTube but has been in stagnation for about 3 years. Dan Hendrickson stopped working with him, started his own channel about a month ago and now gets a similar number of views as crossfield. I wonder just how many of his subscribers actually still watch his tripe, I'll say less than a third


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			Crossfield is a tosser, he doesnt know how to bite his tongue and its cost him big. his channel was once the biggest on YouTube but has been in stagnation for about 3 years. Dan Hendrickson stopped working with him, started his own channel about a month ago and now gets a similar number of views as crossfield. I wonder just how many of his subscribers actually still watch his tripe, I'll say less than a third
		
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I think he's definitely burnt a lot of bridges (TM etc) and he has definitely stagnated but does still produce some very good content amongst some dross and it does get irksome weeding through his "views" (and of course their in only one view worth listening too) and seeing a broader picture. I understood (and stand to be corrected) that the Hendrikson split was actually amicable and Dan use to have a channel anyway and thought it was the time to go back, having got some excellent exposure via Crossfield and resurrect that and stand on his own feet. Seems to have worked well


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## User20204 (Mar 1, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			Crossfield is a tosser, he doesnt know how to bite his tongue and its cost him big. his channel was once the biggest on YouTube but has been in stagnation for about 3 years. Dan Hendrickson stopped working with him, started his own channel about a month ago and now gets a similar number of views as crossfield. I wonder just how many of his subscribers actually still watch his tripe, I'll say less than a third
		
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He also talks highly of you


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## Depreston (Mar 2, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I think he's definitely burnt a lot of bridges (TM etc) and he has definitely stagnated but does still produce some very good content amongst some dross and it does get irksome weeding through his "views" (and of course their in only one view worth listening too) and seeing a broader picture. I understood (and stand to be corrected) that the Hendrikson split was actually amicable and Dan use to have a channel anyway and thought it was the time to go back, having got some excellent exposure via Crossfield and resurrect that and stand on his own feet. Seems to have worked well
		
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He has went full on click bait with his video titles I know why he’s done it but it’s very annoying


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## howbow88 (Mar 2, 2020)

That's the name of the game on YouTube these days. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but pretty much everyone does it.

I thought the Taylormade stuff from him was absurdly arrogant. They weren't going to send him free stuff and so he slagged them off. It's really up to them as to whether or not they send reviewers free gear - the sense of entitlement from him was embarrassing for a bloke who is probably in his forties. 

The problem with success is that it can go to your head, and I think that is what has happened here.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2020)

Depreston said:



			He has went full on click bait with his video titles I know why he’s done it but it’s very annoying
		
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Sadly clickbait is an easy/lazy way to get hits on a video. A lot of the top golf vloggers do it (Shiels is a major culprit) and it is something I try and shy away from when I my own youtube vidoes. I'd rather people click because they want to rather than on a pre-cursor or clickbait title. I have no ambitions to be a big youtuber in terms of subscribers/views but enjoy doing some videos and it has managed to open some doors as a result


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## Springveldt (Mar 2, 2020)

Depreston said:



			He has went full on click bait with his video titles I know why he’s done it but it’s very annoying
		
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He has to really. He has 300K subscribers but his latest vids are probably averaging under 40K views. Those are tiny numbers for YouTube these days. Look at the number of views Shiels gets on his videos (and he's the king of clickbait). Actually, Shiels views seem absurdly high. 

I can't see all the large sponsorship deals lasting if his viewing numbers stay as is, he's barely getting more views than guys with less than 80K subscribers. Crossfield is getting about 12% of his subscribers watching his content while Shiels is getting over 40%.


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## GolfRaver (Mar 2, 2020)

I saw the fitting with Liam and the big sell appeared to be how the big brands crank lofts and 'fit' rather than 'build'. But then Liam’s Ronseal replacement had the loft cranked and was longer than Ronseal.

Also the clubs sent to him were not entirely built to his spec yet, I understand time may have been a factor here though so I expect this would be finalised once Liam is back from Portugal.

Lastly Alex did seem to be very sure of things, such as why his brand is the best (no issue there, as others have said anyone would take this stance in his position if they have put the years in to build something they believe in). He also made a few comments that could be taken the wrong way or come across as a little arrogant. But really, everyone is different, so there’s nothing we can really say here without knowing the man and his intensions. I’m sure we all come across in a way that some people don’t agree with.

But what does get me is the big sell on custom build and the negativity around big brands and big brand pricing.

There are many custom fitters / builders around. And many of them offer several brands. So you can go to them and try new and old Titleist, Callaway, Ping, Srixon clubs etc etc. In addition they will try numerous shafts and grips etc. and will look at loft, lie everything during the session. So you get the same service, but with a larger choice of clubs.

I myself have taken this route in the past, and many of the brands I expected to work for me didn’t, so it was good to get a wide choice and finally find the clubs for me. The lofts, lie, grips, shaft and length etc. were then tailored in house by that fitter (not the manufacturer), in the same way that you would get this with Orka. So you can be confident (as good as the fitter is true to their word which would be the same with any fitter Orka or otherwise) that the gapping and specs are as required for you. And gap tests are offered to back this up.

So this is where I’m not too sure why the one brand build experience is gaining so much traction. You can get the same experience with a far wider choice at any number of good, experienced, knowledgable fitters.

And the price won’t be far different from Orka based on the prices quoted to Liam.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with Alex or Orka (I’m sure both will suit some golfers), but I’m just not seeing that the service they offer is unique, significantly better priced, or gives a wide enough choice to be confident in what is ultimately a big decision for most to invest in a new set of clubs.


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## tugglesf239 (Mar 2, 2020)

GolfRaver said:



			I saw the fitting with Liam and the big sell appeared to be how the big brands crank lofts and 'fit' rather than 'build'. But then Liam’s Ronseal replacement had the loft cranked and was longer than Ronseal.

Also the clubs sent to him were not entirely built to his spec yet, I understand time may have been a factor here though so I expect this would be finalised once Liam is back from Portugal.

Lastly Alex did seem to be very sure of things, such as why his brand is the best (no issue there, as others have said anyone would take this stance in his position if they have put the years in to build something they believe in). He also made a few comments that could be taken the wrong way or come across as a little arrogant. But really, everyone is different, so there’s nothing we can really say here without knowing the man and his intensions. I’m sure we all come across in a way that some people don’t agree with.

But what does get me is the big sell on custom build and the negativity around big brands and big brand pricing.

There are many custom fitters / builders around. And many of them offer several brands. So you can go to them and try new and old Titleist, Callaway, Ping, Srixon clubs etc etc. In addition they will try numerous shafts and grips etc. and will look at loft, lie everything during the session. So you get the same service, but with a larger choice of clubs.

I myself have taken this route in the past, and many of the brands I expected to work for me didn’t, so it was good to get a wide choice and finally find the clubs for me. The lofts, lie, grips, shaft and length etc. were then tailored in house by that fitter (not the manufacturer), in the same way that you would get this with Orka. So you can be confident (as good as the fitter is true to their word which would be the same with any fitter Orka or otherwise) that the gapping and specs are as required for you. And gap tests are offered to back this up.

So this is where I’m not too sure why the one brand build experience is gaining so much traction. You can get the same experience with a far wider choice at any number of good, experienced, knowledgable fitters.

And the price won’t be far different from Orka based on the prices quoted to Liam.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with Alex or Orka (I’m sure both will suit some golfers), but I’m just not seeing that the service they offer is unique, significantly better priced, or gives a wide enough choice to be confident in what is ultimately a big decision for most to invest in a new set of clubs.
		
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Good, reasoned post that mate.


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			He has to really. He has 300K subscribers but his latest vids are probably averaging under 40K views. Those are tiny numbers for YouTube these days. Look at the number of views Shiels gets on his videos (and he's the king of clickbait). Actually, Shiels views seem absurdly high. 

I can't see all the large sponsorship deals lasting if his viewing numbers stay as is, he's barely getting more views than guys with less than 80K subscribers. Crossfield is getting about 12% of his subscribers watching his content while Shiels is getting over 40%.
		
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Which 80k subscriber channel is that?


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## chrisd (Mar 2, 2020)

GolfRaver said:



			I saw the fitting with Liam and the big sell appeared to be how the big brands crank lofts and 'fit' rather than 'build'. But then Liam’s Ronseal replacement had the loft cranked and was longer than Ronseal.

Also the clubs sent to him were not entirely built to his spec yet, I understand time may have been a factor here though so I expect this would be finalised once Liam is back from Portugal.

Lastly Alex did seem to be very sure of things, such as why his brand is the best (no issue there, as others have said anyone would take this stance in his position if they have put the years in to build something they believe in). He also made a few comments that could be taken the wrong way or come across as a little arrogant. But really, everyone is different, so there’s nothing we can really say here without knowing the man and his intensions. I’m sure we all come across in a way that some people don’t agree with.

But what does get me is the big sell on custom build and the negativity around big brands and big brand pricing.

There are many custom fitters / builders around. And many of them offer several brands. So you can go to them and try new and old Titleist, Callaway, Ping, Srixon clubs etc etc. In addition they will try numerous shafts and grips etc. and will look at loft, lie everything during the session. So you get the same service, but with a larger choice of clubs.

I myself have taken this route in the past, and many of the brands I expected to work for me didn’t, so it was good to get a wide choice and finally find the clubs for me. The lofts, lie, grips, shaft and length etc. were then tailored in house by that fitter (not the manufacturer), in the same way that you would get this with Orka. So you can be confident (as good as the fitter is true to their word which would be the same with any fitter Orka or otherwise) that the gapping and specs are as required for you. And gap tests are offered to back this up.

So this is where I’m not too sure why the one brand build experience is gaining so much traction. You can get the same experience with a far wider choice at any number of good, experienced, knowledgable fitters.

And the price won’t be far different from Orka based on the prices quoted to Liam.

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with Alex or Orka (I’m sure both will suit some golfers), but I’m just not seeing that the service they offer is unique, significantly better priced, or gives a wide enough choice to be confident in what is ultimately a big decision for most to invest in a new set of clubs.
		
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As was said by Tuggles  a good reasoned post

But

When I've been fitted for irons, and I've done a few, the fitting even at, say, Callaway is just the 7 iron with just a few different shafts - find the right head and shaft and order 3 to pitching wedge. What happens when the full set arrive and you cant hit the 5, 4 and 3 irons like the 7 iron went?  I seem to recall that when Orka call you to collect your set up they test each and every club again until you're happy, and the numbers are right, so is, if I'm right about their service, isn't it a more comprehensive  fitting than the big names?


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## spongebob59 (Mar 2, 2020)

chrisd said:



			As was said by Tuggles  a good reasoned post

But

When I've been fitted for irons, and I've done a few, the fitting even at, say, Callaway is just the 7 iron with just a few different shafts - find the right head and shaft and order 3 to pitching wedge. What happens when the full set arrive and you cant hit the 5, 4 and 3 irons like the 7 iron went?  I seem to recall that when Orka call you to collect your set up they test each and every club again until you're happy, and the numbers are right, so is, if I'm right about their service, isn't it a more comprehensive  fitting than the big names?
		
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When are you going then


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## chrisd (Mar 2, 2020)

spongebob59 said:



			When are you going then 

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Why, wanna lift 😉


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2020)

chrisd said:



			As was said by Tuggles  a good reasoned post

But

When I've been fitted for irons, and I've done a few, the fitting even at, say, Callaway is just the 7 iron with just a few different shafts - find the right head and shaft and order 3 to pitching wedge. What happens when the full set arrive and you cant hit the 5, 4 and 3 irons like the 7 iron went?  I seem to recall that when Orka call you to collect your set up they test each and every club again until you're happy, and the numbers are right, so is, if I'm right about their service, isn't it a more comprehensive  fitting than the big names?
		
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Up to a point I'd agree. I'd add in that when I had a Ping fitting at Pachesham (before it became an glorified AG) which was an approved fitting centre, I had my fit, got my clubs and then when back to the fitter and hit balls on the monitor to check the numbers. He also checked the lofts and lies as well. Some will offer it and others won't. Like lessons, sometimes you have to do your homework and find a good fitter locally or head to their main fitting centres (Chessington for Callaway, Gainsborough for Ping etc)


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## GolfRaver (Mar 2, 2020)

chrisd said:



			As was said by Tuggles  a good reasoned post

But

When I've been fitted for irons, and I've done a few, the fitting even at, say, Callaway is just the 7 iron with just a few different shafts - find the right head and shaft and order 3 to pitching wedge. What happens when the full set arrive and you cant hit the 5, 4 and 3 irons like the 7 iron went?  I seem to recall that when Orka call you to collect your set up they test each and every club again until you're happy, and the numbers are right, so is, if I'm right about their service, isn't it a more comprehensive  fitting than the big names?
		
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I’m talking independent fitter v Orka. So both fit / build from a 7 iron. Then both offer gap testing after to ensure the full set is as desired. From what I can tell the main difference is that at Orka you only get to try Orka clubs, but at an independent fitter you get to try as many brands as they stock. And the remainder of the service should be the same.
I’m sure Orka clubs will be good for some, I’m just saying that you’re likely to get a wider range to choose from at an independent fitter / builder. And so the bit I don’t get about the videos is that it makes it seem like Orka are the only place to get a full build, when actually it’s quite a common practice, so not a USP for me.
I think there are a lot of knowledgable professional people out there to help you buy the right clubs. That said good luck to all buyers and sellers.


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## Springveldt (Mar 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Which 80k subscriber channel is that?
		
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Golf Sidekick
No Laying Up
Erik Anders Lang

I'm sure there are more if I went looking for them. His viewing numbers are very low compared to the number of subscribers based on the channels I watch.


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			Golf Sidekick
No Laying Up
Erik Anders Lang

I'm sure there are more if I went looking for them. His viewing numbers are very low compared to the number of subscribers based on the channels I watch.
		
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NLU 540k views last 30 days
Erik anders lang 437k views  last 30 days
Golf sidekick 652k views  last 30 days. 
Crossfield 2.43 million views last 30 days....

I agree he loves the sound of his own voice and thinks his opinion is the only correct one.  But he is popular and does post some good stuff from time to time.


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## Springveldt (Mar 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			NLU 540k views last 30 days
Erik anders lang 437k views  last 30 days
Golf sidekick 652k views  last 30 days.
Crossfield 2.43 million views last 30 days..
		
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So Crossfield is averaging 80K views a day? Didn't realise, the quick glance numbers just weren't showing that. I also contribute to those numbers since I watch the vast majority of his videos.

edit: Just had another quick glance and he only has 2 videos in the last 3 weeks that come near the 80K mark. Either that 2.43M number is wrong or the view count on the uploads page is wrong.

edit2: I’m guessing total views will account for people watching older videos as well. Long day, guess my brain is tired...


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## SteveJay (Mar 2, 2020)

Lots of comments on here about Orka fitters vs independent fitters. 
My understanding is that other than Alex, all their fitters are independents who invariably also fit other brands. So not sure that they fit one way for Orka and use a different approach for other makes.....or do they?


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## spongebob59 (Mar 2, 2020)

chrisd said:



			Why, wanna lift 😉
		
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I'm not sure about the fitter tbh


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## albie999 (Mar 2, 2020)

I am also confused a little, why fitters only fit with a 7 iron, and that you cannot also test with a 5 iron.  The reason I ask, is that my current set, my 5 and 6 iron pretty much go similar to my 7, so I have stepped into a hybrid for 5,6 etc ... however, if I only get a fit done with a 7 .... how will I know (until they turn up) if I can hit the 4,5 or 6 the distance I want


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			So Crossfield is averaging 80K views a day? Didn't realise, the quick glance numbers just weren't showing that. I also contribute to those numbers since I watch the vast majority of his videos.

edit: Just had another quick glance and he only has 2 videos in the last 3 weeks that come near the 80K mark. Either that 2.43M number is wrong or the view count on the uploads page is wrong.

edit2: I’m guessing total views will account for people watching older videos as well. Long day, guess my brain is tired...
		
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I agree, his views per subscriber ratio is very poor. Most of his videos are lucky  to do 30k after a few days, he does upload alot of content 2 videos a day etc but his viewing numbers are poor for a channel of his size. Cant say I'm surprised though because you have to listen to alot of his drivel before you get any useful information


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			I agree, his views per subscriber ratio is very poor. Most of his videos are lucky  to do 30k after a few days, he does upload alot of content 2 videos a day etc but his viewing numbers are poor for a channel of his size. Cant say I'm surprised though because you have to listen to alot of his drivel before you get any useful information
		
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Who is viewing is more important than how many. US views are the real winners, worth way  more than  UK. I don't know his breakdown, but his channel is still pretty popular. So many other channels offering similar stuff he has to try and be  different.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Who is viewing is more important than how many. US views are the real winners, worth way  more than  UK. I don't know his breakdown, but his channel is still pretty popular. So many other channels offering similar stuff he has to try and be  different.
		
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Problem is his idea of different, he has a terrible sense of humour and if someone watched his content once they would just be like what ? He has what he thinks are jokes which he drops every 2 minutes but you wont get them unless you've watched his channel for about 6months. He also has loads of digs at other youtubers, media, manufacturers &  just about everybody. He was even trying to put down Harry Flower not that long ago, I mean that guy is 24and does his own thing from what I can tell, doesnt mention Crossfield. He's in his 40's and acts like an 11 year old school kid, I mean I'd be embarrassed if I were him


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## larmen (Mar 2, 2020)

albie999 said:



			I am also confused a little, why fitters only fit with a 7 iron, and that you cannot also test with a 5 iron.
		
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James Robinson did a video on YouTube where he got fitted into blades for short and mid irons and cavity clubs for long irons. There must be something available to do long and short.
Didn’t really follow it in detail so I don’t know where and what. MP something or the other


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## GB72 (Mar 2, 2020)

Thing is drama on YouTube gets views and attention so starting a war if words helps keep the views up


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## User20204 (Mar 2, 2020)

Whatever you think of MC, the best thing he has done for all of us has been to question the BS that comes out of the marketing from the top companies, I mean twist face, come on eh.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Whatever you think of MC, the best thing he has done for all of us has been to question the BS that comes out of the marketing from the top companies, I mean twist face, come on eh.
		
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He isnt the only person to question the manufacturers, in fact I'd say rick shiels is more harsh on them than Mark crossfield is. at any rate why would anyone watch a review by a guy who is paid to endorse a certain brand of clubs ? He has no place to criticise other manufacturers because he isnt unbiased in, he has a club and ball deal with srixon/Cleveland. Lockey is sponsored by Callaway, their bias is ripping right out just about whatever they do. Mark doesnt like criticism, he hates it when people call him out on it


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## User20204 (Mar 2, 2020)

Well there's clearly no reasoning with you is there


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Well there's clearly no reasoning with you is there 

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Not sure I'm getting you mate ? I'm just pointing out how it's a bit ridiculous to listen to a guy who has a contract with a club/ball manufacturer review products of other club and ball manufacturers? can you not see the conflict here ? I also pointed out how his content is full of snide digs, private jokes and offers little value to new viewers/subscribers IMO. 2 years ago he was the biggest on youtube, now rick shiels has more than double his subscribers and way more than treble his views, perhaps you can tell us why you think that is ? Its obvious to me.


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## User20204 (Mar 2, 2020)

Your opinion of him has came over loud and clear. 

I don't fall into the bracket of conflict with him, in his time with Titleist I thought he was opinionated about all and everything, I don't believe he at any time was biased towards them and I watched most of them. Given your opinion on him, I very much doubt you watched to many so I'm not so sure you're in a position to offer a reasonable point.


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## Slime (Mar 2, 2020)

I'm a big fan of Crossfield.
I find most of his content very funny and a lot of it is very informative.
He may have very strong opinions and does come up with some controversial stuff, but that's just his opinion.
It also gets people to question some commonly accepted beliefs, which can only be a good thing.
He gets people talking and I like that.
Having said all that, I do miss Grandan.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			Your opinion of him has came over loud and clear. 

I don't fall into the bracket of conflict with him, in his time with Titleist I thought he was opinionated about all and everything, I don't believe he at any time was biased towards them and I watched most of them. Given your opinion on him, I very much doubt you watched to many so I'm not so sure you're in a position to offer a reasonable point.
		
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I've watched plenty of his stuff, I haven't always disliked him it's a position I've accumulated over recent months/the last year. He is biased, although he does edit to try and mask it as much as possible though if you watch closely you will find comments etc that are clearly bias in every way.


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## User20204 (Mar 2, 2020)

For example ?


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

Slime said:



			I'm a big fan of Crossfield.
I find most of his content very funny and a lot of it is very informative.
He may have very strong opinions and does come up with some controversial stuff, but that's just his opinion.
It also gets people to question some commonly accepted beliefs, which can only be a good thing.
He gets people talking and I like that.
Having said all that, I do miss Grandan.
		
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Cant say I find his content all that informative and his idea of banter is painful. He just likes to use the wooden spoon and I'm almost certain its cost him big when it comes to his overall popularity and success on YouTube. He cant stand to be proven wrong, its actually quite funny when you see someone question him. Did he ever do an update with his students who did 'the journey ' ? Did any of them actually improve 😂 not sure he has changed any opinions on mass of commonly accepted golfing beliefs. perhaps you can point me in the right direction, I'm more than happy to learn but to my knowledge he hasn't.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			For example ?
		
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What like when he does a compare with another driver, that driver out performs his yet he still manages to say you should buy a ts3. It really is there if you look for it


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

But every driver he hits goes 262....


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## User20204 (Mar 2, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			What like when he does a compare with another driver, that driver out performs his yet he still manages to say you should buy a ts3. It really is there if you look for it
		
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That's how you are reading in to it. He has said for years his numbers are 262, almost every driver he's tested, it's been 262, then he throws in the "but you should buy a Titleist" in a jokey manner, if you can't see through that or read in to that as being biased, then so be it.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

HappyHacker1 said:



			That's how you are reading in to it. He has said for years his numbers are 262, almost every driver he's tested, it's been 262, then he throws in the "but you should buy a Titleist" in a jokey manner, if you can't see through that or read in to that as being biased, then so be it.
		
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On this particular test he had quite a few with his driver going in the mid 250's and he had a number with other 265 268 etc it just outperformed it on that particular test, yet he found a reason to suggest that he would still buy the ts3. Even if it is a jokey way, is that really what an unbiased reviewer should do ? Would you watch a BMW salesman test drive an audi if you were interested in buying one ? Even if he says it's good blah blah but jokingly suggests you buy a BMW, it doesnt wash


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

Would you rather every one was like super nice Pete finch?
That would be dull....


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Would you rather every one was like super nice Pete finch?
That would be dull....
		
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No I certainly wouldn't, I just prefer it when people call a spade a spade you know ?


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			No I certainly wouldn't, I just prefer it when people call a spade a spade you know ?
		
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I've not really seen it the way you do, he's just one of a number who I subscribe to. I find they all post a real mixed bag


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## Parsaregood (Mar 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I've not really seen it the way you do, he's just one of a number who I subscribe to. I find they all post a real mixed bag
		
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I appreciate everyone is different and has a different point of view. I watched MC way back in 2010 up until about 4 months ago, I didn't watch many of his course blogs as I've always found his banter pretty hard to listen to. It's an opinion ive accumulated over time but I'd say over the last 2 years my opinion of him deteriorated for various reasons and I think many of these reasons are why his channel has very much stagnated in growth and people see him very much as a guy who yes is knowledgeable when it comes to golf but is unbearable to a point where hes not worth the hassle of watching


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

I see hes put a z star vs prov1 video up. Be interesting as he is with srixon now.


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## Slime (Mar 2, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I see hes put a z star vs prov1 video up. Be interesting as he is with srixon now.
		
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Gonna watch it right now, I'll just get a  first.
Bear with.


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## Slime (Mar 2, 2020)

A good honest review with data that everybody can see and make their own judgements from.
The numbers were very similar but, as MC said, the numbers were his numbers and, for him, as there was virtually no performance differences, the Z-Star wins purely on price.
A good review methinks.


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## robinthehood (Mar 2, 2020)

Im looking forward to my 4 dozen z stars arriving. Although I'll not use them untill the course drys out...


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## Imurg (Mar 3, 2020)

Slime said:



			A good honest review with data that everybody can see and make their own judgements from.
The numbers were very similar but, as MC said, the numbers were his numbers and, for him, as there was virtually no performance differences, the Z-Star wins purely on price.
A good review methinks.
		
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Kind of agree but it's also a bit of a wasted review as, surely, the majority of people know that all the premium tour balls perform within a gnat's of each other anyway..dont they?
A better one would be to show the differences between the standard balls and the "x" versions.
And with some of the munters he hit, using data from 3 or 4 shots with each ball doesn't really tell you much.
I, for 1, felt like I knew what the findings would be before I even clicked - and I wasnt wrong.


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## robinthehood (Mar 3, 2020)

Imurg said:



			Kind of agree but it's also a bit of a wasted review as, surely, the majority of people know that all the premium tour balls perform within a gnat's of each other anyway..dont they?
A better one would be to show the differences between the standard balls and the "x" versions.
And with some of the munters he hit, using data from 3 or 4 shots with each ball doesn't really tell you much.
I, for 1, felt like I knew what the findings would be before I even clicked - and I wasnt wrong.
		
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Not much difference in anything these days. Hence the need for twist face etc.....


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## GolfRaver (Mar 3, 2020)

SteveJay said:



			Lots of comments on here about Orka fitters vs independent fitters.
My understanding is that other than Alex, all their fitters are independents who invariably also fit other brands. So not sure that they fit one way for Orka and use a different approach for other makes.....or do they?
		
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I guess this is a more succinct way of putting what I was querying. If other independent fitters offer club fitting and building (and gap testing), is there anything different about the Orka business model? 

The videos I have seen strongly suggest that what they do is unique, but purely based on my own experiences being fitted elsewhere, not only is the service not unique as described, but it's also limited, in that you're trying one brand vs a range of brands at an independent fitter.

It would be good to have an Orka vs other brands comparison in a fitting / build environment, which I'm guessing you'd get from an independent fitter who stocks Orka among a range of brands. That way you have tried a number of clubs and you know the Orka one performs best against competitors (rather than against your current set).

Do any main or feeder tour players play Orka? I know at the top a lot of players have club contracts (I think they are more watertight than Liam's), but would be interesting if any independent or development tour players use Orka clubs.


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## GB72 (Mar 3, 2020)

I think this is a very reasonable point in that if you get a good, experienced club fitter and club builder then I am sure they can match the Orka experience with any brand's head. The comparative is that people (and do not forget most people on here are seen as the more knowledgeable end of the golf market) are having clubs fitted that are then not being built to the spec they need due to overly wide tolerances


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## Orikoru (Mar 3, 2020)

I've often wondered about that too... how custom fitting seems to be exclusively done with the 7 iron and then at the end they ask you what clubs you want in the set. Well, I currently can't hit a 6 iron let alone a 5 or a 4 so I'd have to try all of them to decide. Also if they offered a GW I'd probably want to compare that against my current GW before adding another 100 quid to my irons bill.


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## Crow (Mar 3, 2020)

I'm just relieved that I'm of average height and build so don't need to concern myself with all this malarkey.


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## Imurg (Mar 3, 2020)

Crow said:



			I'm just relieved that I'm of average height and build so don't need to concern myself with all this malarkey.
		
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One thing I would never describe you as is average Nick.......
Beige, maybe, but average...


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## GolfRaver (Mar 3, 2020)

GB72 said:



			I think this is a very reasonable point in that if you get a good, experienced club fitter and club builder then I am sure they can match the Orka experience with any brand's head. The comparative is that people (and do not forget most people on here are seen as the more knowledgeable end of the golf market) are having clubs fitted that are then not being built to the spec they need due to overly wide tolerances
		
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I can only speak from my own experiences, but the independent fitters I have been to have tested all of the loft and lies on the manufacturer's club heads once ordered, and have adjusted them if they are not as expected, or if we have specifically decided to strengthen / weaken the loft on any particular club. Then we have conducted a gap test to ensure I'm happy with the product. So in that sense I don't think it's fair to insinuate that only one brand / path would result in the desired gapping in your set. It's just my opinion that this is a fairly standard process, and that one brand is not the home of the built to measure club.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 3, 2020)

Part of Alex's philosophy is using traditional lofts, so his 7 iron is 36 degrees, lot of players category irons now have 32 or 33 degrees of loft, and lots of forgiving irons have 28/29 degrees, so all things being equal you are going to lose distance. on the other hand you can say the orka strategy is more sensible as you will have better gapping all the way up to your first gap wedge. I think it's more sensible to have a 48 degree pitching wedge than to be down at say 45. Alex also builds his clubs to a 0.3 of a swingweight point tolerance which is extremely tight. major brands generally have a point tolerance meaning one can be a D1 swingweight and another could be D3. He also offers free loft and lie alterations for as long as you have the irons, it is not unheard of for major brands to have irons come out with lofts and lies all over the place. I think if your looking at his service it is outshining major brands and also other independent club fitters by a distance. On the whole I'd rather have a set properly built and gapped all the way through. I think Orka are well worth looking at for anybody


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## Orikoru (Mar 3, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			Part of Alex's philosophy is using traditional lofts, so his 7 iron is 36 degrees, lot of players category irons now have 32 or 33 degrees of loft, and lots of forgiving irons have 28/29 degrees, so all things being equal you are going to lose distance. on the other hand you can say the orka strategy is more sensible as you will have better gapping all the way up to your first gap wedge. I think it's more sensible to have a 48 degree pitching wedge than to be down at say 45. Alex also builds his clubs to a 0.3 of a swingweight point tolerance which is extremely tight. major brands generally have a point tolerance meaning one can be a D1 swingweight and another could be D3. He also offers free loft and lie alterations for as long as you have the irons, it is not unheard of for major brands to have irons come out with lofts and lies all over the place. I think if your looking at his service it is outshining major brands and also other independent club fitters by a distance. On the whole I'd rather have a set properly built and gapped all the way through. I think Orka are well worth looking at for anybody
		
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Funnily enough, while most people are obsessed with distance, losing distance actually appeals to me in a way. I currently can't hit my 6 iron, which is 26°, and with my PW being 44° (and seems to play even stronger than that in relation to my Cleveland wedges), I've had to put in a 46° to plug the gap to the 50°. So with the Orka irons being in traditional lofts I feel like my bag set-up would look less ridiculous, as it currently features three irons and five wedges if you only consider what's written on them.   Basically I think the gapping would be more preferable, and even if I had to hit 7 where I used to hit 8, I don't really care about that.


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## Parsaregood (Mar 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Funnily enough, while most people are obsessed with distance, losing distance actually appeals to me in a way. I currently can't hit my 6 iron, which is 26°, and with my PW being 44° (and seems to play even stronger than that in relation to my Cleveland wedges), I've had to put in a 46° to plug the gap to the 50°. So with the Orka irons being in traditional lofts I feel like my bag set-up would look less ridiculous, as it currently features three irons and five wedges if you only consider what's written on them.   Basically I think the gapping would be more preferable, and even if I had to hit 7 where I used to hit 8, I don't really care about that.
		
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Well if gapping is an issue for you and you struggle to hit your low lofted power bats I'd definitely look into orka, a 32 degree six iron will definitely be easier to hit all around than one with 26 degrees, you will also no longer need so many wedges so why wouldn't you look into it


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## Crow (Mar 3, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Funnily enough, while most people are obsessed with distance, losing distance actually appeals to me in a way. I currently can't hit my 6 iron, which is 26°, and with my PW being 44° (and seems to play even stronger than that in relation to my Cleveland wedges), I've had to put in a 46° to plug the gap to the 50°. So with the Orka irons being in traditional lofts I feel like my bag set-up would look less ridiculous, as it currently features three irons and five wedges if you only consider what's written on them.   Basically I think the gapping would be more preferable, and even if I had to hit 7 where I used to hit 8, I don't really care about that.
		
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 You know what I'm going to say so I won't even bother saying it!

The wedge on these is around 52 degrees, cost me £40 delivered.


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## Jacko_G (Mar 3, 2020)

chrisd said:



			As was said by Tuggles  a good reasoned post

But

When I've been fitted for irons, and I've done a few, the fitting even at, say, Callaway is just the 7 iron with just a few different shafts - find the right head and shaft and order 3 to pitching wedge. What happens when the full set arrive and you cant hit the 5, 4 and 3 irons like the 7 iron went?  I seem to recall that when Orka call you to collect your set up they test each and every club again until you're happy, and the numbers are right, so is, if I'm right about their service, isn't it a more comprehensive  fitting than the big names?
		
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Well I would suggest that is your fault for not discussing your strengths and weaknesses with the fitter when getting fit. Would a hybrid or two be better at the lower end of the bag and discuss the gapping.

If the fitter and you are in agreement on head and shaft and the gapping between clubs is correct and you still struggle with whatever iron I would suggest it's user error.


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## Orikoru (Mar 3, 2020)

Parsaregood said:



			Well if gapping is an issue for you and you struggle to hit your low lofted power bats I'd definitely look into orka, a 32 degree six iron will definitely be easier to hit all around than one with 26 degrees, you will also no longer need so many wedges so why wouldn't you look into it
		
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I intend to when I can afford it, which might be later this year or next.


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## Swinglowandslow (Mar 3, 2020)

Crow said:



 You know what I'm going to say so I won't even bother saying it!

The wedge on these is around 52 degrees, cost me £40 delivered.

View attachment 29292

Click to expand...



Today, I went to the range with a modern 7 iron, 32 loft and a modern 8 iron, 36 loft.
Together with 6 iron MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfield blade, and a similar 7 iron
( had the whole set regripped a week ago)

Compared on toptracer, for a laugh, and found the modern 8 same as Muirfield 
7, and modern 7 to Muirfield 6

But do you know what, I enjoyed hitting the Muirfield best!

Food for thought


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## chrisd (Mar 3, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Well I would suggest that is your fault for not discussing your strengths and weaknesses with the fitter when getting fit. Would a hybrid or two be better at the lower end of the bag and discuss the gapping.

If the fitter and you are in agreement on head and shaft and the gapping between clubs is correct and you still struggle with whatever iron I would suggest it's user error.
		
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 I dont think I said that *I* couldn't hit longer irons after a fitting, I queried what happens if someone couldn't hit them after only being fitted with a 7 iron! Most problems of golf are user error, as luck would have it I can quite happily hit through the bag


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## Crow (Mar 4, 2020)

View from the Buzzman, he speaks sense.

(I've had respect for Buzza ever since he produced the Old School Challenge Vlogs with Rich Woods, look them up vintage golf fans)


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## Jacko_G (Mar 4, 2020)

Thanks crow.

When you look at the results of a GM editor and the X flex worked best it really is starting to show Crossfield isn't as insane as some in the industry would like to paint!!!!

🤔


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## larmen (Mar 4, 2020)

Jacko_G said:



			Thanks crow.

When you look at the results of a GM editor and the X flex worked best it really is starting to show Crossfield isn't as insane as some in the industry would like to paint!!!!

🤔
		
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people hate the message when they hate the messenger


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## DanFST (Mar 4, 2020)

I had an X Flex Fujikura 64g , now I have an S flex UST Mamiya 76g (Because it's neon yellow)

A groove up or groove down influences the numbers way more than the shaft. I'm not a robot and I like the yellow.


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## Slime (Mar 4, 2020)

Interesting test by Rick Shiels;


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## MendieGK (Mar 4, 2020)

GolfRaver said:



			I can only speak from my own experiences, but the independent fitters I have been to have tested all of the loft and lies on the manufacturer's club heads once ordered, and have adjusted them if they are not as expected, or if we have specifically decided to strengthen / weaken the loft on any particular club. Then we have conducted a gap test to ensure I'm happy with the product. So in that sense I don't think it's fair to insinuate that only one brand / path would result in the desired gapping in your set. It's just my opinion that this is a fairly standard process, and that one brand is not the home of the built to measure club.
		
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No where do ‘we’ Orka suggest we are the one brand. Plenty of other smaller brands do, but the model you’re suggesting relies on a 3rd party - the independent fitter to test your clubs. 

Should be have to do that? No. You don’t get someone in clothes shop to make sure your shirt is the correct ‘medium’ before they put it on the rack


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## GolfRaver (Mar 4, 2020)

MendieGK said:



			No where do ‘we’ Orka suggest we are the one brand. Plenty of other smaller brands do, but the model you’re suggesting relies on a 3rd party - the independent fitter to test your clubs.

Should be have to do that? No. You don’t get someone in clothes shop to make sure your shirt is the correct ‘medium’ before they put it on the rack
		
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Hi. Sorry I didn’t quite understand this post.

My query was whether suggesting custom build is a key brand differentiator (in videos I’ve seen) was valid. And whether implying that Orka club specs are likely to be more accurate or better gapped than some other brands was valid.

All I was really saying was that these two aspects are pushed in videos I’ve seen, but from my experiences I’ve got the accurate gapped and built model elsewhere, so it’s nothing unique.

I’m sure there’s a good market for Orka clubs, as there is for a lot of brands. I just don’t get why the build aspect is raised so often in videos as it’s fairly standard practice. Or have I misunderstood something, and the Orka experience does have a unique side to it?


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## popeye (Mar 4, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Sadly clickbait is an easy/lazy way to get hits on a video. A lot of the top golf vloggers do it (Shiels is a major culprit) and it is something I try and shy away from when I my own youtube vidoes. I'd rather people click because they want to rather than on a pre-cursor or clickbait title. I have no ambitions to be a big youtuber in terms of subscribers/views but enjoy doing some videos and it has managed to open some doors as a result
		
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What's your channel?


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## Slab (Mar 5, 2020)

xreyuk said:



			........but he seems to say them in an inflammatory way on purpose, this could have easily been said in a better way......
		
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This extract from your post describes a dozen people on this forum (& probably just as many people we all know in real life too)


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## harpo_72 (Mar 5, 2020)

Going to just jump in here.
I watch his reviews occasionally and I watch other people’s reviews of the same items.
The common message is .. everything is very similar they will do very similar .. with respect to drivers.
Irons are more about quality of strike and that consistency. Most are highlighting jacked lofts to explain yardage gains .. most interesting comment I have heard is “I look at the decent angle, less than 45 degrees with a 7 iron and I will struggle to stop the ball” . But mainly iron selection is about what pleases the eye.


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## harpo_72 (Mar 5, 2020)

Crow said:



			View from the Buzzman, he speaks sense.

(I've had respect for Buzza ever since he produced the Old School Challenge Vlogs with Rich Woods, look them up vintage golf fans)







Click to expand...

Buzza says it straight and it’s about the combination.
You can go through a multitude of shafts with a head but you won’t necessarily find the combination. They work together, a good fitter recognises that and then seeks to fit in that way.
But ultimately a swing fault cannot be hidden by equipment.. so lessons and practice will be generate the best fit and stock stuff will work well enough.


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## USER1999 (Mar 5, 2020)

Most fitting is done with one iron, normally a six iron in my experience. By the time the fitting cart has a standard head, plus 1 up, plus 2, plus 3, minus 1, minus 2, and minus 3, in 4 different head designs, plus 10 or so different shafts, each in standard, plus 1/4, plus 1/2, minus 1/4, minus 1/2, in reg, stiff, and x, that is a fair old fitting kit.

Do this for several manufacturers, and the kits multiply.

Do this for every iron, 3 to pw, and that is a heck of a lot of space, money, all with no value to the fitter.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2020)

murphthemog said:



			Most fitting is done with one iron, normally a six iron in my experience. By the time the fitting cart has a standard head, plus 1 up, plus 2, plus 3, minus 1, minus 2, and minus 3, in 4 different head designs, plus 10 or so different shafts, each in standard, plus 1/4, plus 1/2, minus 1/4, minus 1/2, in reg, stiff, and x, that is a fair old fitting kit.

Do this for several manufacturers, and the kits multiply.

Do this for every iron, 3 to pw, and that is a heck of a lot of space, money, all with no value to the fitter.
		
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That's fair enough. But from the golfer's perspective, once you've selected your head/shaft combo etc, and they ask you which irons you want in your set, what do you have to go on? Just guesswork?


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## albie999 (Mar 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			That's fair enough. But from the golfer's perspective, once you've selected your head/shaft combo etc, and they ask you which irons you want in your set, what do you have to go on? Just guesswork?
		
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That's exactly what I always wonder. It was only really when I got on a launch monitor, that I realised that my 5 and 6 irons pretty much went same or close enough distance to my 7 .... So they been replaced with a hybrid, but in a fitting, how would I know that if only being fitted with a 7


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## GolfRaver (Mar 5, 2020)

Whoever has fit you should check the lofts (amongst other things) before giving you the clubs. You could also have a gap test. And you’d hopefully know if there are any issues when hitting the clubs and get them rectified if required. It’s fairly easy for a fitter to adjust the club.
But as people have said, the idea of hitting every club / shaft / grip combo for every club isn’t economical so buying based on hitting one club is the norm.
Generally you’d need to know if you prefer a hybrid or long iron to know where you want your set of irons to start, though fitters should be able to help and advise on such issues.


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## Orikoru (Mar 5, 2020)

GolfRaver said:



			Whoever has fit you should check the lofts (amongst other things) before giving you the clubs. You could also have a gap test. And you’d hopefully know if there are any issues when hitting the clubs and get them rectified if required. It’s fairly easy for a fitter to adjust the club.
But as people have said, the idea of hitting every club / shaft / grip combo for every club isn’t economical so buying based on hitting one club is the norm.
Generally you’d need to know if you prefer a hybrid or long iron to know where you want your set of irons to start, though fitters should be able to help and advise on such issues.
		
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You wouldn't know though - my current irons are off the rack and strong lofted, and I can only really hit the 7 downwards. If I got fitted irons with traditional lofts, I'd expect to be able to hit the 6 iron too.. but the 5? Who knows.


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## Crow (Mar 5, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			You wouldn't know though - my current irons are off the rack and strong lofted, and I can only really hit the 7 downwards. If I got fitted irons with traditional lofts, I'd expect to be able to hit the 6 iron too.. but the 5? Who knows.
		
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If you got traditional lofts, which most seem to call 1990s lofts, then the 5 iron would have the same loft as your strong 7 iron.

Going back to my favourite date of 1970 the 4 iron would have the same loft as your strong 7 iron, so you'd be able to hit a 4 iron and a 3 iron would be in your grasp, go vintage!


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## road2ruin (Sep 8, 2020)

Seems like the chip on Crossfield's shoulder continues to grow with his latest spat with other YouTubers....




This is in response to Peter Finches upload with regards a hammer putter....




Rick Shiels waded in....




Other YouTubers (Alex from Orka included) also joined the mix however it really doesn't show MC in a good light. I do find Finch and Shiels a little 'click baity' but it's obviously working for them, they both have more subs than MC, in Shiels case he's not on 1.24m subscribers. Remember when they were neck and neck?! There is obviously room on YouTube for all sorts of different content but starting posts in a holier than thou type attitude that MC does just makes him look pathetic. Some viewers will like the PF/RS type content whilst others will enjoy watching MC's, space for all IMO. I'm sure there is bitterness from MC that his sub numbers have plateaued even though he was one of the first to use the platform in this way.


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## Bazzatron (Sep 8, 2020)

road2ruin said:



			Seems like the chip on Crossfield's shoulder continues to grow with his latest spat with other YouTubers....

View attachment 32303


This is in response to Peter Finches upload with regards a hammer putter....

View attachment 32304


Rick Shiels waded in....

View attachment 32305


Other YouTubers (Alex from Orka included) also joined the mix however it really doesn't show MC in a good light. I do find Finch and Shiels a little 'click baity' but it's obviously working for them, they both have more subs than MC, in Shiels case he's not on 1.24m subscribers. Remember when they were neck and neck?! There is obviously room on YouTube for all sorts of different content but starting posts in a holier than thou type attitude that MC does just makes him look pathetic. Some viewers will like the PF/RS type content whilst others will enjoy watching MC's, space for all IMO. I'm sure there is bitterness from MC that his sub numbers have plateaued even though he was one of the first to use the platform in this way.
		
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Shiels and Finch use that much bait it's like an episode of Fishomania.


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## JamesR (Sep 8, 2020)

Crow said:



			If you got traditional lofts, which most seem to call 1990s lofts, then the 5 iron would have the same loft as your strong 7 iron.

Going back to my favourite date of 1970 the 4 iron would have the same loft as your strong 7 iron, so you'd be able to hit a 4 iron and a 3 iron would be in your grasp, go vintage!
		
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How do shaft lengths compare,...a longer shaft also makes a long iron harder to hit


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## LincolnShep (Sep 8, 2020)

Absolutely right R2R.  Crossfield should stick to doing what he does to the best of his ability - it's occasionally brilliant.  Knocking other people for doing what they do just looks like jealousy and bitterness.


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## road2ruin (Sep 8, 2020)

LincolnShep said:



			Absolutely right R2R.  Crossfield should stick to doing what he does to the best of his ability - it's occasionally brilliant.  Knocking other people for doing what they do just looks like jealousy and bitterness.
		
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The other problem with Crossfield is the way he interacts with his audience, especially on Twitter. If you don't agree with his point of view there is no discussion, he doesn't try and persuade you round to his viewpoint, he is just patronising and condescending. That alone must put a lot of people off viewing his YouTube content. For me personally U used to like his course Vlogs with Coach, Rory etc, I thought they were entertaining. Now is content is just really dry for me, lots of hitting balls on his sim and the data that goes along with it. That's just not what I find interesting but obviously others do which is fine. Not sure why he has to pick fights with those on YT who have decided to go down the more commercial route.


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## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2020)

road2ruin said:



			Seems like the chip on Crossfield's shoulder continues to grow with his latest spat with other YouTubers....

View attachment 32303


This is in response to Peter Finches upload with regards a hammer putter....

View attachment 32304


Rick Shiels waded in....

View attachment 32305


Other YouTubers (Alex from Orka included) also joined the mix however it really doesn't show MC in a good light. I do find Finch and Shiels a little 'click baity' but it's obviously working for them, they both have more subs than MC, in Shiels case he's not on 1.24m subscribers. Remember when they were neck and neck?! There is obviously room on YouTube for all sorts of different content but starting posts in a holier than thou type attitude that MC does just makes him look pathetic. Some viewers will like the PF/RS type content whilst others will enjoy watching MC's, space for all IMO. I'm sure there is bitterness from MC that his sub numbers have plateaued even though he was one of the first to use the platform in this way.
		
Click to expand...

He's talking rubbish anyway. Surely people like to see reviews of obscure clubs? When I see a brand I've not heard of making outlandish claims to have the longest driver or golf ball in the world, I want to see them put to the sword! But I'm not going to buy it and test it myself am I?


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## GB72 (Sep 8, 2020)

Thing is for many YouTube is now their main source of income. To keep up the income, you need views and to keep up the views you need to keep releasing content. As golf manufacturers have a pretty rigid release schedule, you only get a couple of months of content out of reviewing the latest golf gear. Once your channel has been running for a few years, you have an ample back catalogue of tips videos and so how do you fill the rest of the year. Some on course videos that manufacture situations to make it different, some vlogs from other courses and then you have the option of reviewing strange and off the radar gear to get a few views. It is all about releasing content though, irrespective of quality you need something for people to watch every couple of days or they move onto someone else. 

They all pretty much follow the same pattern. Crossfield has fallen behind because he does not churn out the endless videos to ensure that people are watching him daily. He started with a good grip on how to make use of social media but has fallen behind on the best methods to increase views and subscriber numbers. Not saying that the way that Shiels, Finch etc are doing it is great in general but they are doing the right thing to keep increasing their youtube income and keep their subscriber numbers and views increasing.


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## robinthehood (Sep 8, 2020)

I quite enjoy reviews of the weird golf stuff that's out there, Massive drivers, Polaris dead straight Balls, The Hammer and all that other stuff. I'm never going to buy it, but its interesting to see how the illegal stuff shapes up. Generally its worse!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 8, 2020)

People obviously like to see them, there's a reason Shiels and Finch do them and a reason Shiels now has over 1m subscribers. Thought Rick's response was great too. Crossfield's becoming more and more of a tit as the years go on and his channel continues to die.


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## GB72 (Sep 8, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			I quite enjoy reviews of the weird golf stuff that's out there, Massive drivers, Polaris dead straight Balls, The Hammer and all that other stuff. I'm never going to buy it, but its interesting to see how the illegal stuff shapes up. Generally its worse!
		
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Have to agree, thought the club that fired the golf ball using effectively a cut down shotgun cartridge was a fascinating bit of kit even if it is something I would hope to never need. Also interesting that some of the thinking behind these weird clubs does seem to make a strange sort of sense, they just tend not to work any better than standard clubs. That said, they are being tested by a pro. Would be interesting to see how some people use these strange clubs who really cannot hit the shot in question. After all, what is a chipper other than one of these almost single purpose clubs that are being reviewed and they are used plenty.


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## GB72 (Sep 8, 2020)

Dan2501 said:



			People obviously like to see them, there's a reason Shiels and Finch do them and a reason Shiels now has over 1m subscribers. Thought Rick's response was great too. Crossfield's becoming more and more of a tit as the years go on and his channel continues to die.
		
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This is it though, its another way of gaining subs. It happens all over youtube, creators start a bit of drama with another creator in the hope of gaining subs from people who want to watch the drama pan out.


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## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2020)

GB72 said:



			Have to agree, thought the club that fired the golf ball using effectively a cut down shotgun cartridge was a fascinating bit of kit even if it is something I would hope to never need. Also interesting that some of the thinking behind these weird clubs does seem to make a strange sort of sense, they just tend not to work any better than standard clubs. That said, they are being tested by a pro. Would be interesting to see how some people use these strange clubs who really cannot hit the shot in question. After all, what is a chipper other than one of these almost single purpose clubs that are being reviewed and they are used plenty.
		
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That's a reason I like James Robinson's channel these days, he doesn't just test things himself, he quite often brings along a high-handicapper mate, if that's who the product is aimed at.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 8, 2020)

I like Crossfield when he sticks to what he does best. I don't like these weird and whacky product reviews as I have zero interest in trying or buying them. I have gone off Shiels for his click bait and Finch seems to have lost his mojo and doesn't seem to be producing the quality or volume of content he did. I am a big fan of Chris Ryan and Danny Maude for tuition/drills as they do it in a simple to understand method, and no click bait, gimmicks etc. Simply down to business. 

I think the likes of Crossfield especially on social media simply go out of their way to be controversial to develop traffic but in my opinion it loses them a lot of respect from the average players especially when his peers argue their corner and he doesn't respond or trys to shout them down


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## jmf1488 (Sep 8, 2020)

Crossfield just bitter that the silly videos get more views than him.

There wasn't much content at the start when all these guys first appeared and no doubt Crossfield had a lot more viewers who tolerated his annoying personality back then. Now that there is plenty of content about people aren't stuck watching him. He probably doesn't realise that he is the reason people don't watch his videos. Its not what he is making videos about, its his annoying personality. Even his course vlogs he knocks about bullying the other guys.


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## timd77 (Sep 8, 2020)

I went through a stage (lockdown!) of watching most things that were posted by the main youtubers, click bait, instructional the lot. But I’ve massively gone off them and so now only really watch crossfield, Alex Evans and Tubes (mainly for the footballer interviews). I like Peter finch and so I’ll watch his ‘quest for the open’ and on course vlogs.

To me, crossfield has only said what a lot of us are thinking. Some of the vlogs are scraping the barrel, reviewing daft products. That said, I agree that it’s a bit crass to talk about the competition.


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## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2020)

timd77 said:



			I went through a stage (lockdown!) of watching most things that were posted by the main youtubers, click bait, instructional the lot. But I’ve massively gone off them and so now only really watch crossfield, Alex Evans and *Tubes (mainly for the footballer interviews). *I like Peter finch and so I’ll watch his ‘quest for the open’ and on course vlogs.

To me, crossfield has only said what a lot of us are thinking. Some of the vlogs are scraping the barrel, reviewing daft products. That said, I agree that it’s a bit crass to talk about the competition.
		
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Ah, I found Tubes' channel a few weeks ago and have already rinsed through all of his 'Fooore Hole Challenge' vids. Some of them are superb, I loved Merson's one, and Marc Bircham who I was not familiar with before, but he was really funny.


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## GB72 (Sep 8, 2020)

timd77 said:



			I went through a stage (lockdown!) of watching most things that were posted by the main youtubers, click bait, instructional the lot. But I’ve massively gone off them and so now only really watch crossfield, Alex Evans and Tubes (mainly for the footballer interviews). I like Peter finch and so I’ll watch his ‘quest for the open’ and on course vlogs.

To me, crossfield has only said what a lot of us are thinking. Some of the vlogs are scraping the barrel, reviewing daft products. That said, I agree that it’s a bit crass to talk about the competition.
		
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It is a fair point, how do you fill a week of reviews when there is nothing new to review. As I mentioned before, once your channel has a library of tips videos then that is pretty much that topic gone unless you find a new teaching method. On course stuff is OK but with Shiels and Finch, when you are out on the course on your own there is very little option in the way of variety. You could do vlogs from other courses but that is not so easy at the moment plus you have the inconvenience of filming on a busy course. Sponsorship has also limited some youtubers. It may be interesting to see fittings etc from various manufacturers but if you are sponsored by one, they are not going to be too happy with a big PR piece for a rival and the rivals are not going to roll out the red carpet if their clubs are never going to be used. 

Very difficult producing content in such a limited field and so the odd gimic video seems the only option.


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## Depreston (Sep 8, 2020)

I enjoy seeing their coaching prowess crossfields best vids are his live lesson vids he used to do ... think thats why I’m enjoying Marcus Bell a lot but even then that will get Stale I’m sure ... would love Liam Harrison to go there and get a lesson as we know his game and could see whether he could get him drawing it and fading it on command like many of his lessons claim to do so 

Tubes vids are great


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## timd77 (Sep 8, 2020)

Orikoru said:



			Ah, I found Tubes' channel a few weeks ago and have already rinsed through all of his 'Fooore Hole Challenge' vids. Some of them are superb, I loved Merson's one, and Marc Bircham who I was not familiar with before, but he was really funny.
		
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Some of them are a bit ‘soccer am’ish for me but mostly are really good interviews. Never liked him as a player but Kieran dyer was interesting, as was Wayne bridge.


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## Orikoru (Sep 8, 2020)

timd77 said:



			Some of them are a bit ‘soccer am’ish for me but mostly are really good interviews. Never liked him as a player but Kieran dyer was interesting, as was Wayne bridge.
		
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Yeah Bridge was really funny as well. When he was talking about Man City with Mancini and Balotelli it was class.


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## Britishshooting (Sep 8, 2020)

Rick Shiels is click baity but that's the youtube Meta, he just knows how best to use his platform for growth etc. and Crossfield is like a little man child in an infants body. Lets be honest who wouldn't it brings in the pay checks. I'd imagine Rick isn't far away if he isn't already at solely relying on his social media platform. Mark couldn't make that happen without also becoming more click baity, likeable and actually networking with others on the platform.

Personally for me the TXG boys are my go to as I like to see all the data, watching them fit and club reviews with someone who is impecabbly consistent so you get some genuine feedback from it. Also like Alex Etches as a local lad to me who smashes it some way and just enjoys himself.

I don't watch many of Rick's videos but I find him a lot more likeable than Mark personally.


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## slicer79 (Sep 8, 2020)

Dan Hendrickson has become my favourite. Love his stuff plus Lester Barnes is comedy as his sidekick. More natural than the artificial humour of the likes of Coach Lockey


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## howbow88 (Sep 8, 2020)

2 things:

1) YouTube and the rest of social media is there primarily for entertainment. The same as TV, radio, etc. If people find watching someone try out silly golf clubs entertaining, youtubers are clearly going to make videos on them. Watching a bitter, rapidly ageing ex-golf coach hit balls into a wall, whilst talking about how great his latest sponsor is, isn't really entertaining. 

2) But the above gives Crossfield way too much credit. Of the YouTube golf world, he is the Katie Hopkins - he often says something controversial because he knows it will get people talking about him. This thread is a perfect example - it wasn't bumped to talk about a new interesting or entertaining video he has made, but to talk about him acting like a child on Twitter. 

A strange man, and one that really does little of interest these days.


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## larmen (Sep 8, 2020)

There isn’t a single golf YouTube channel where I watch all videos. And I follow a lot of them.
I look at the title, the thumbnail, and if in doubt the length and then decide.

They all have something good, but they all produce a lot of waste as well. It’s free, nothing lost by not watching the duff ones. The only reason I watched Finchies hammer video was Crossfield, btw.

It’s Shields and Finch’s mate Matt Fryer who recently made it into my list. He can be dull, but when he is on it I like him a lot.


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## Crow (Sep 8, 2020)

JamesR said:



			How do shaft lengths compare,...a longer shaft also makes a long iron harder to hit
		
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They pretty much match the loft, see table below.
The 37" length quoted for a 1970s 5 iron is a little short from my experience in measuring the sets I have, they're actually more like 37.25" or 37.5" with 1/2" steps between clubs.

The Mizuno MP-20 5 iron at 38" would match the 1970 4 iron loft and the length of the typical 1970 4 iron would be 37.5" plus 1/2" = 38"
The Callaway Epic Forged 5 iron at 38.875" most closely matches the typical 1970 2 iron in loft, length for that would be 37.5" + 1.5" = 39"

So if you just look at loft and length the clubs are pretty much the same apart from the number on the bottom.
The Epic Forged will have a hot face though so will go further, and more and more of the "players" clubs are going hollow bodied which allows for thinner faces and therefore faster ball speed.


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## Springveldt (Sep 8, 2020)

larmen said:



			There isn’t a single golf YouTube channel where I watch all videos. And I follow a lot of them.
I look at the title, the thumbnail, and if in doubt the length and then decide.

They all have something good, but they all produce a lot of waste as well. It’s free, nothing lost by not watching the duff ones. The only reason I watched Finchies hammer video was Crossfield, btw.

It’s Shields and Finch’s mate Matt Fryer who recently made it into my list. He can be dull, but when he is on it I like him a lot.
		
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I'm the same, I am subscribed to quite a few of them and to be honest the ones I watch the most are Crossfield and Hendriksen due to them uploading just as I've finished dinner and they are at the top of the list and I watch Alex Evans every Tuesday as his channel is brilliant for anyone that hasn't found him yet. I probably watch Shiels and Finch maybe once every couple of weeks but their clickbait has put me off but it's clearly working for their channels.

I like Crossfield's current stuff as I'm a bit of a number geek so I'm liking the ShotScope, Arccos stuff. Maybe I can tolerate him since I don't do social media.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2020)

Bazzatron said:



			Shiels and Finch use that much bait it's like an episode of Fishomania.
		
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## Papas1982 (Sep 8, 2020)

I think Crossfields ideas and content is easily the best of Shiels/MC/Finch. 

Unfortunately the main problem is that he’s in the videos. Shiels is basically just a marketing tool for the manufacturers. He aimed at the US market and got in (hence his numbers have exploded).
I used to like Finch content, but he’s fallen somewhere in the middle imo.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2020)

Guys, No Laying Up is the go to golf YouTube channel. 

As with others I've lost a bit of interest in Crossfield's videos. It must be difficult posting new content on a regular basis on golf so chances are a channel will get stale very quickly. Also I kind of liked the travel ones he did more and that has been curtailed a lot what with one thing and another.  I have noticed that he seems to be posting more instructional type videos now despite him rallying against them for a long time, may be that's what get's the clicks.

Gave up on Shiels a bit ago, far too click batey, I think it was a video where he matched up the same manufacturers balls and clubs together and compared them to see which one was 'the best' (does a TM driver and TM ball go further than a Titleist Driver and Pro V1...), that broke the camels back.  Pete Finch's videos once he split with Shiels have always been a bit meh, but he's a nice bloke. I will watch say one in every 3 or 4 he posts.


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## Ethan (Sep 8, 2020)

Crossfield likes to be a bit of a controversialist. He has posted videos before on shaft stiffness, arguing that flex doesn't make much difference based on a set of shots hit by a very good player (him) with a smooth swing. Not exactly stressing the hypothesis. 

On the role of the shaft, some of the same may apply. If you give a very good player a different shaft they will be able to adapt to it. I remember seeing Michael Campbell failing to demonstrate the importance of fitting at a Callaway event by striping identical drives with an L flex shaft and his own X shaft.

But for the average player playing a R flex or S flex retail shaft in their driver, stick in a high kick point proper S flex shaft and they will only be able to putt with it. The club isn't only the shaft, but it is a pretty important part.


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## ADB (Sep 8, 2020)

Hacker Khan said:



			Guys, No Laying Up is the go to golf YouTube channel.

As with others I've lost a bit of interest in Crossfield's videos. It must be difficult posting new content on a regular basis on golf so chances are a channel will get stale very quickly. Also I kind of liked the travel ones he did more and that has been curtailed a lot what with one thing and another.  I have noticed that he seems to be posting more instructional type videos now despite him rallying against them for a long time, may be that's what get's the clicks.

Gave up on Shiels a bit ago, far too click batey, I think it was a video where he matched up the same manufacturers balls and clubs together and compared them to see which one was 'the best' (does a TM driver and TM ball go further than a Titleist Driver and Pro V1...), that broke the camels back.  Pete Finch's videos once he split with Shiels have always been a bit meh, but he's a nice bloke. I will watch say one in every 3 or 4 he posts.
		
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NLU is a class above in content terms - still cant believe they only have 55k subscribers compared to Rick Shields' over 1m. I have watched some of their series more than once and will probably go back again they are so entertaining IMO. Highly recommended......haven't watched a Crossfield video in ages - they simply got too repetitive for me.


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## DRW (Sep 8, 2020)

Used to watch a reasonable amount of golf uploads, got a bit samey I suppose , as slowly but surely almost stopped watching them completely

Do still sometimes look on youtube at the athletic Motion channel to see if they have uploaded, they are very good.


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## garyinderry (Sep 8, 2020)

Rick shields seems to be very popular with those just starting golf and those new to watching golf related YouTube videos. 

Hes got a big slice of the market and fair play to him. 


There is a lot more to enjoy with the likes of no laying up, adventures in golf with EAL. 
Instruction channels like malaska, monte, martin chuck, athletic motion. The list is pretty much endless here where I'd watch before shields for instruction.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2020)

ADB said:



			NLU is a class above in content terms - s*till cant believe they only have 55k subscribers compared to Rick Shields' over 1m*. I have watched some of their series more than once and will probably go back again they are so entertaining IMO. Highly recommended......haven't watched a Crossfield video in ages - they simply got too repetitive for me.
		
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I think they value quality over quantity, which some others may not so much. And they do not post videos of them reviewing clubs and saying the same thing over and over and over and over again.  Which again seems to get the clicks for some reason. 

There is a new Strapped starts soon which is good.  And they have filmed a Tourist Sauce recently. I think they had planned to come over to England to film a series, but that got curtailed. Tough scene.


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## Crow (Sep 8, 2020)

I don't like No Laying Up or Eric Anders Lang.
NLU seems too ideal and EAL is trying too hard to be arty.  
And both of them encourage American golfers to the UK which means I can't afford to play any of the top courses.


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## robinthehood (Sep 8, 2020)

The cool kids watch GM golf.


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## GGTTH (Sep 8, 2020)

I used to enjoy watching Rick Shiels but the route he has went down is not appealing to me at all. Click bait rubbish. Videos clearly "sponsored" by manufacturers that he says aren't. I'd love to see the sales figures of those products he reviews after he released the video . Shiels is the red top tabloid of golfing youtube. The Daily Star if you like.

Finch I don't mind as such. His quest for the open stuff is pretty interesting and just goes to show how hard golf can be at his level. His instruction videos are good but I'm not a fan of the clickbaity stuff he does like his recent challenge with some kids youtubers. I wish he'd go back to the content over the last couple of years instead of going down Shiels route as his production value was top notch.

I've watched MC since I started playing golf and I've always enjoyed his stuff. Even when I stopped playing I'd still find myself watching his course vlogs. I don't find him as annoying as others do but I agree with his overall view on golf and improvement. Some of the course vlogs are hilarious viewing and I'll be looking forward to more when they can get them done. He strikes me as very much someone who is set in his ways and that's absolutely fine nothing wrong with that IMO. Perhaps some would say an outdated approach but sometimes that is the best one. His content is by far the most interesting and revealing if you can put aside the odd piece of bias towards his current sponsor manufacturer. I read a post on reddit once with someone who met him and they said he was absolutely down to earth. I think alot of people take him the wrong way and maybe he needs to come meet these people halfway. As others said space for all.

Sadly the way Youtube is going will be detrimental to Mark's channel as Youtube is all now clickbait rubbish.


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## Depreston (Sep 8, 2020)

No laying up will be doing just fine sure their tourist source stuff was picked up by American cable 

They’re a cut above like but don’t play the algorithm game .

Neil Schuster and Randy are the most charismatic lads in the YouTube golf world ... as a Brit who can’t stand brash Americans I should really hate Neil but I just can’t he’s class , and Randy is great balance


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## pendodave (Sep 8, 2020)

Depreston said:



			No laying up will be doing just fine sure their tourist source stuff was picked up by American cable 

They’re a cut above like but don’t play the algorithm game .

Neil Schuster and Randy are the most charismatic lads in the YouTube golf world ... as a Brit who can’t stand brash Americans I should really hate Neil but I just can’t he’s class , and Randy is great balance
		
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I do wonder about the subscriptions for some of these channels. NLU has a completely different views/subscriber ratio to many, and certainly seems more genuine.

Over the years, I've found myself "rooting" (listening to far too much US content) for Tron, who I used to find particularly loathsome. I think it's his anti pga stance that has got me warming to him. 
The podcasts established the cast of characters such that I wonder what non pod listeners make of the vids.

However dull some of the content gets, let us never forget that 10 years ago there was nothing!


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## Dan2501 (Sep 8, 2020)

Neil's the man but Big Randall is the star of the show, love that guy. NLU are doing some great stuff, comfortably the best YT content going atm, the Wild World of Golf videos are always a superb watch. Erik Anders Lang makes some nice stuff too, his Adventures in Golf series with Skratch was great.


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## Lilyhawk (Sep 8, 2020)

Alex Evans together with “The Biff”, also known as Paul Waring, is by far my favourite YT golf channel. 

Guys who seem to be great fun to sit down with for a pint or 8.


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## Slime (Sep 8, 2020)

I watch pretty much all of them.
I'm a bit of a Tom Saguto fanboy and YGT's Rory Anderson is turning out some interesting stuff that he presents particularly well.


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## inc0gnito (Sep 8, 2020)

Crossfield’s ego is irrationally big. Rick Shiels subscriber list is also overinflated. Only reason it’s so big is the amount of giveaways he does, for which you need to be subscribed. 

I got bored of all them all and unsubbed.  I stopped watching most of the YouTube Golf channels.


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## OneEyeRon (Sep 8, 2020)

Papas1982 said:



			I used to like Finch content, but he’s fallen somewhere in the middle imo.
		
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He used to be my fave, but now I can't watch any of his videos for exactly this reason. 

I don't believe he is knowledgeable enough to go serious, yet the charisma is lacking to go entertaining. (Let's not even start on the attempts at humour with the editing).


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## Springveldt (Sep 8, 2020)

Traminator said:



			Lol we're all different.
I think they could drop Neil from the line up tomorrow and it would improve immediately. 🤷‍♂️
Randy 🥢 the charisma of the wet end of my bag towel, but the other lively 3 complement his big dope personality well.
In just my view 😅
		
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I'm with @Depreston on this, I usually hate the brash American attitude thing but Neil is very entertaining, him and Randy offset each other perfectly in the Strapped series.



Lilyhawk said:



			Alex Evans together with “The Biff”, also known as Paul Waring, is by far my favourite YT golf channel.

Guys who seem to be great fun to sit down with for a pint or 8.
		
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Blows my mind he only has 7K subscribers, absolutely brilliant channel.


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## Jordanti9 (Sep 8, 2020)

Only watch TxG now, got back into golf last year and got custom fit at AG, I always played with a draw, they said I was really toe down, and ordered my clubs 3 degrees upright, hadn’t played in 10+ years so thought okay fair enough. 

My golf scores just kept getting worse, I was constantly going massively left, couldn’t figure out why, watched TxG vid, where they mentioned toe down usually means a fade, but if the player has a draw, going upright will do nothing but hurt them. Straight to a local pro, he looked at them and first words where “they are really really upright” 

Fixed them, dropped 10 shots a round within a month. After that they had me. Quality production, unbiased. What more could I want. 

Shiels is way too click baity, Crossfield feels like he’s trying to hard, Finch I find bland, and Dan is not my cup of tea.


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## NeilG (Sep 9, 2020)

slicer79 said:



			Dan Hendrickson has become my favourite. Love his stuff plus Lester Barnes is comedy as his sidekick. More natural than the artificial humour of the likes of Coach Lockey
		
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In terms of quality and content my favourite channel at the minute.


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## howbow88 (Sep 9, 2020)

GGTTH said:



			I used to enjoy watching Rick Shiels but the route he has went down is not appealing to me at all. Click bait rubbish. Videos clearly "sponsored" by manufacturers that he says aren't. I'd love to see the sales figures of those products he reviews after he released the video . Shiels is the red top tabloid of golfing youtube. The Daily Star if you like.

Finch I don't mind as such. His quest for the open stuff is pretty interesting and just goes to show how hard golf can be at his level. His instruction videos are good but I'm not a fan of the clickbaity stuff he does like his recent challenge with some kids youtubers. I wish he'd go back to the content over the last couple of years instead of going down Shiels route as his production value was top notch.

I've watched MC since I started playing golf and I've always enjoyed his stuff. Even when I stopped playing I'd still find myself watching his course vlogs. I don't find him as annoying as others do but I agree with his overall view on golf and improvement. Some of the course vlogs are hilarious viewing and I'll be looking forward to more when they can get them done. He strikes me as very much someone who is set in his ways and that's absolutely fine nothing wrong with that IMO. Perhaps some would say an outdated approach but sometimes that is the best one. His content is by far the most interesting and revealing if you can put aside the odd piece of bias towards his current sponsor manufacturer. I read a post on reddit once with someone who met him and they said he was absolutely down to earth. I think alot of people take him the wrong way and maybe he needs to come meet these people halfway. As others said space for all.

Sadly the way Youtube is going will be detrimental to Mark's channel as Youtube is all now clickbait rubbish.
		
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Lockey, is that you?


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## evemccc (Sep 9, 2020)

I have seen many golf youtubers - Shiels and Finch seem like ‘nice guys’ but I don’t learn anything useful from watching a hole being played only with a 7 iron 😜

Danny Maude and Chris Ryan are the only videos I now watch. Both very good on instruction — which is my real aim for watching golf on YouTube


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## rksquire (Sep 9, 2020)

During lockdown I subscribed to a lot of YT providers.  The reality (I think!) is that the rapidly growing channels are that of the GM Golf crew and all their sidekicks (Matt Scharff (?), Stephen Castenada (?), Michah Morris, Colin Ross - and the style of content Crossfield is complaining about is the type of content they churn out every single day.  They've collectively moved locations and are taking it seriously, although their content is anything but.  It's fun and silly and pointless and if you're in the mood it's quite entertaining.  For example, didn't see anybody do a hickory / old club vlog prior to GM Golf / Brodie Smith (who has now left golf content for golf frisbee for some reason!) and now I've seen everyone have a go!

The problem is MCs ego - he had a good channel with creative appealing content but others have taken it and moved on.  Crossfield is struggling to increase his numbers, whereas others are rapidly building.  Golfholics provide high quality imagery and golf ability but it's very dull.  The Shee sisters are vlogging on course content with other fitness / silliness.  TxG is brilliant, but sometimes a little intense!  Mr. Short Game I quite like.  EAL is artsy but some of the courses he's visited and the history of the places is excellent.  Saguto is nuts, but likeable although I couldn't watch it continuously.  Golfmates is weird to me - I should hate it, but I find myself watching it.  I've started watching James Robinsons stuff and it's quite good.

There should be enough out there for everyone, if MC thinks deriding someone elses content is going to win him fans he is mistaken.  Others can see what's happening, and are moving with it.  Playing a par 3 with a frying pan isn't golf, but it still makes me laugh.  Having Lockey giving forced laughter to more passive aggressive banter does not.  But I'll still watch some of his content but I'll know with 30 seconds if I stick with it or not.  Finch (ugh) and Shiels aren't stupid - I believe there is a GM Golf crossover coming soon which will suit their needs and content perfectly.  MC is missing a trick by standing still.


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## Depreston (Sep 9, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			I'm with @Depreston on this, I usually hate the brash American attitude thing but Neil is very entertaining, him and Randy offset each other perfectly in the Strapped series.


Blows my mind he only has 7K subscribers, absolutely brilliant channel.
		
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The Strapped series are superb best golf content by a long long way. 

D.J is an absolute producing powerhouse too such a talented guy


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## harpo_72 (Sep 9, 2020)

Golf sidekick is doing it for me, just making me realise how simple it could be and how complex I make it ... the lady pro series just gives you perspective. 
TXG is brilliant although I have actually fallen asleep during it .. but that’s early mornings biting you in the afternoon. 
MC is okay, RS okay but bit boring now, as is PF, average golfer is interesting, golf mates okay nice reality break, Dan H is good as well just easy going, Danny Maude I like the tips and seeing Canterbury. Todd Graves for the Moe Norman stuff, which is very interesting and has helped my driving no end.


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## Grant85 (Sep 9, 2020)

Hate Shiels. Did watch a few of his videos but found myself watching almost none to the end and so gave up and Youtube has eventually stopped putting them on my page. 

Crossfield I believe knows his stuff and comes up with some really interesting videos, even after all these years. Ultimately Youtube becomes an ideas game and it must be almost impossible to come up with new and original vidoes, over and above any course vlogs and equipment reviews. 

Simon Smith is really good (SAS Golf). He is currently building a second hand club business and is documenting his progress, starting off with paying £100 for a load of Vega iron heads and using the capital to reinvest. He's now up to something like £7,000 or £8,000 in terms of cash / stock. 

I also love the NLU stuff. Ok, they are starting to go a bit corporate with Draftkings and perhaps some of their opinions are tempered from who appears on their podcast (very rarely are they critical of Spieth, for example) but ultimately that's the way the world works and it's a relationship game. And I couldn't even pick my favourite - all 5 are great on the pod and on camera and bring something to the show.


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## larmen (Sep 9, 2020)

What are people actually after when watching golf on YouTube?

Instruction
Reviews
Entertainment
Silly stuff 

???

I like course vlogs and the odd other entertainment stuff.
Instructions I get from my pro and I don’t want to get conflicting views from the bet, and reviews when I am not in the market for anything is just not my thing, and I don’t like silly stuff.

Btw, golf monthly does great reviews of useful stuff like trolleys or rain gear, never seen the big YouTube celebs do these.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 9, 2020)

Instruction - Chris Ryan and Danny Maude - simple and to the point and easy to understand
Reviews - Crossfield. When he sticks to what he is good at he's very good
Entertainment  - Don't watch too many purely for Entertainment but the series Radar did with Ping was really good to watch
Silly stuff - Again don't watch too many silly videos as they aren't my cup of tea but at a push I'll watch Liam Harrison


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## evemccc (Sep 9, 2020)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Instruction - Chris Ryan and Danny Maude - simple and to the point and easy to understand
Reviews - Crossfield. When he sticks to what he is good at he's very good
Entertainment  - Don't watch too many purely for Entertainment but the series Radar did with Ping was really good to watch
Silly stuff - Again don't watch too many silly videos as they aren't my cup of tea but at a push I'll watch Liam Harrison
		
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Agreed Danny Maude and Chris Ryan are class. Don't treat their audience as fools, give clear concise instruction and no gimmicks or pratting about


NLU I often enjoy. TRon and Soly by far the best IMO


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## Hendy (Sep 10, 2020)

harpo_72 said:



			Golf sidekick is doing it for me, just making me realise how simple it could be and how complex I make it ... the lady pro series just gives you perspective.
TXG is brilliant although I have actually fallen asleep during it .. but that’s early mornings biting you in the afternoon.
		
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Yea golf sidekick is very good I watch him from time to time.. 

Always wisdom in golf I like. 


I like these guys as it's plain and simple to understand. To many pros and YouTube pro just fill your head full of shit and both these two above have taking me from 25 to 7 (upto 8 now tho lol) 

I go to a pro first of all and they point out what I do wrong and show and tell me how to fix it. But I find it difficult to do it if am honest I quick look of on wisdom in golf I find a ten minute vid I watch it and it's a light bulb moment.


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## Matty6 (Sep 10, 2020)

Been watching a few of the GM Golf crew videos recently. Some very good players. They mix things up and do some fun challenges along with matches amongst themselves. A little different from the norm.


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## robinthehood (Sep 10, 2020)

Matty6 said:



			Been watching a few of the GM Golf crew videos recently. Some very good players. They mix things up and do some fun challenges along with matches amongst themselves. A little different from the norm.
		
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Yeah i have watched them on and off, they do put out some good stuff.
Not sure where MC goes from here, his numbers are pretty flat and his content is all a bit dull lately, his course VLOGs were a big part of his channel, They wont be back any time soon i guess.

The GM guys call out Finch/Shiels for a match part way through


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Yeah i have watched them on and off, they do put out some good stuff.
Not sure where MC goes from here, his numbers are pretty flat and his content is all a bit dull lately, his course VLOGs were a big part of his channel, They wont be back any time soon i guess.

The GM guys call out Finch/Shiels for a match part way through







Click to expand...

Why won't his course vlogs be back what have I missed?


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## robinthehood (Sep 10, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Why won't his course vlogs be back what have I missed?
		
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Travel and quarantine....
I'm sure they'll be back eventually.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Travel and quarantine....
I'm sure they'll be back eventually.
		
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Lot of his were in the UK 

And he could go abroad .. come back quarantine and do content from home easily


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## robinthehood (Sep 10, 2020)

pauljames87 said:



			Lot of his were in the UK

And he could go abroad .. come back quarantine and do content from home easily
		
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Yeah I thought that too. Doesn't seem to be up to much at all lately.


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## pauljames87 (Sep 10, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			Yeah I thought that too. Doesn't seem to be up to much at all lately.
		
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Content went down hill since Dan left

More to that than they let on maybe....


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## robinthehood (Sep 11, 2020)

MC is gonna go into meltdown, Shiels is testing a 70 degree LW


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## Siolag (Sep 11, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			MC is gonna go into meltdown, Shiels is testing a 70 degree LW
		
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Watched that video then the NLU Tourist Sauce from Kilspindie. No contest when it comes to entertainment. 

Who the hell would buy a 70 degree lob wedge?


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## Mark_Aged_42 (Sep 11, 2020)

Not a single mention of Me and My Golf. Which is interesting considering how high they are in the rankings.
And whatever happened to Robin Matthews Williams?
He started doing on course vlogs with his mate and they were entertaining and not excessively full of f bombs.
Now, nothing.


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## Imurg (Sep 11, 2020)

Mark_Aged_42 said:



			And whatever happened to Robin Matthews Williams?
He started doing on course vlogs with his mate and they were entertaining and not excessively full of f bombs.
Now, nothing.
		
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Probably had to go out and get a proper job ..


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## Springveldt (Sep 11, 2020)

Mark_Aged_42 said:



			Not a single mention of Me and My Golf. Which is interesting considering how high they are in the rankings.
		
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Haven't looked at their stuff in a while, it barely shows up in my list even although I'm still subscribed to the channel.


Mark_Aged_42 said:



			And whatever happened to Robin Matthews Williams?
He started doing on course vlogs with his mate and they were entertaining and not excessively full of f bombs.
Now, nothing.
		
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Tried to fake it till you make it and failed.


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## Springveldt (Sep 11, 2020)

robinthehood said:



			MC is gonna go into meltdown, Shiels is testing a 70 degree LW
		
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356K views within 23 hours.

I can kind of see Crossfield's point, he puts out a good, informative video about width of stance with weight shift data etc on a pretty scientific piece of kit that could possibly help your game and has 17K views. Shiels puts out hitting a 70° wedge and has 20 times the views.

Crossfield needs to be careful or he's going to (or already is) the old man yelling at clouds. It's obvious from the views what kind of content youtube golfers want just now.


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## Depreston (Sep 11, 2020)

Mark_Aged_42 said:



			Not a single mention of Me and My Golf. Which is interesting considering how high they are in the rankings.
And whatever happened to Robin Matthews Williams?
He started doing on course vlogs with his mate and they were entertaining and not excessively full of f bombs.
Now, nothing.
		
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He's now Marcus Bell cameraman ... Zen Golf Mechanic

a very intriguing refreshing approach he has to coaching early extenders should watch his latest vid 

Crossfield is coming along to his approach since he too got a force plate ... 

I've took some of ideas onto the course and went from 14.5 to 10.4 this year


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## howbow88 (Sep 11, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			356K views within 23 hours.

I can kind of see Crossfield's point, he puts out a good, informative video about width of stance with weight shift data etc on a pretty scientific piece of kit that could possibly help your game and has 17K views. Shiels puts out hitting a 70° wedge and has 20 times the views.

Crossfield needs to be careful or he's going to (or already is) the old man yelling at clouds. It's obvious from the views what kind of content youtube golfers want just now.
		
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Again, entertainment. Crossfield is dull and often arrogant. Rick Shiels messing about with a 70° wedge is a bit of fun, and you don't need to really concentrate much. The point being is that social media is meant to be a bit of fun.


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## larmen (Sep 11, 2020)

Mark_Aged_42 said:



			Not a single mention of Me and My Golf. Which is interesting considering how high they are in the rankings.
		
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If you are into instruction they are fairly good, but they are hiding all of their proper good stuff behind a paywall.
 They used to do some silly changes, not sure if they still do them. But they aren’t putting any vlogs out at all. So they really only go after the instruction market, really. And I think as a forum we have ‘decided’ it’s a Maude or Ryan that lead the charge now.


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## Crow (Sep 11, 2020)

This suggestion popped up when I went on YouTube, Paige's advice to improve your golf with a new putter fitting.

Not sure who the target audience is.....


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## Dan2501 (Sep 11, 2020)

I mean, that is one hell of a thumbnail. She knows her audience.


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## ger147 (Sep 11, 2020)

Crow said:



			This suggestion popped up when I went on YouTube, Paige's advice to improve your golf with a new putter fitting.

Not sure who the target audience is.....

View attachment 32336

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Amazing that just over 3,000 people have watched it in just one day.


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## Papas1982 (Sep 11, 2020)

ger147 said:



			Amazing that just over 3,000 people have watched it in just one day.
		
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She's hilarious on twitter. 

Genuinely thinks she gained a following for everything but her looks......


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## robinthehood (Sep 12, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			356K views within 23 hours.

I can kind of see Crossfield's point, he puts out a good, informative video about width of stance with weight shift data etc on a pretty scientific piece of kit that could possibly help your game and has 17K views. Shiels puts out hitting a 70° wedge and has 20 times the views.

Crossfield needs to be careful or he's going to (or already is) the old man yelling at clouds. It's obvious from the views what kind of content youtube golfers want just now.
		
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I found that video a bit to technical, but that's his thing, backing up what he says with numbers.


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## davidy233 (Sep 12, 2020)

Springveldt said:



			356K views within 23 hours.

I can kind of see Crossfield's point, he puts out a good, informative video about width of stance with weight shift data etc on a pretty scientific piece of kit that could possibly help your game and has 17K views. Shiels puts out hitting a 70° wedge and has 20 times the views.

Crossfield needs to be careful or he's going to (or already is) the old man yelling at clouds. It's obvious from the views what kind of content youtube golfers want just now.
		
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Simple fact is likeable beats moany most of the time.


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## Sats (Sep 13, 2020)

I've stopped subscribing to all but a few of the golf youtubers. I still follow companies/PGA etc but I can't be bothered with the majority of Youtubers. There is a reason why they weren't on the telly before and all social media has done is brought more trite to the table. 
Paige and about 95% of the Ladies is on Instagram and it's more about them wearing a bikini than playing golf (not saying it's not appealing!) 
I think my biggest reason for ditching the YouTubers are:

Rick Sheils - Could you possibly be anymore crap at content production - 70º wedge or illegal driver videos and click bait - plus his manc accent grates on me .
Me&MyGolf - Scripted. All about signing up to the website (save your money and get lessons/clubs/anything else instead.)
Peter Finch - Nice bloke, decent swing - boring to the max  and I'm not sure what he actually post videos about except what clubs he wants and how he won't get into the open.
Crossfield - Annoying. Did a good job about challenging traditional concepts - Cannot take criticism whatsoever and is childish about it.
Top Bloke - Would never get bored of kicking this bloke in the face.

I forget the rest they seem to blend into one collage of banality.

Rant over.


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## Hendy (Sep 13, 2020)

Crow said:



			This suggestion popped up when I went on YouTube, Paige's advice to improve your golf with a new putter fitting.

Not sure who the target audience is.....

View attachment 32336

Click to expand...

Funny I just got the feeling I need a new putter right now.


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## Hendy (Sep 13, 2020)

Sats said:



			I've stopped subscribing to all but a few of the golf youtubers. I still follow companies/PGA etc but I can't be bothered with the majority of Youtubers. There is a reason why they weren't on the telly before and all social media has done is brought more trite to the table.
Paige and about 95% of the Ladies is on Instagram and it's more about them wearing a bikini than playing golf (not saying it's not appealing!)
I think my biggest reason for ditching the YouTubers are:

Rick Sheils - Could you possibly be anymore crap at content production - 70º wedge or illegal driver videos and click bait - plus his manc accent grates on me .
Me&MyGolf - Scripted. All about signing up to the website (save your money and get lessons/clubs/anything else instead.)
Peter Finch - Nice bloke, decent swing - boring to the max  and I'm not sure what he actually post videos about except what clubs he wants and how he won't get into the open.
Crossfield - Annoying. Did a good job about challenging traditional concepts - Cannot take criticism whatsoever and is childish about it.
Top Bloke - Would never get bored of kicking this bloke in the face.

I forget the rest they seem to blend into one collage of banality.

Rant over.
		
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Check out 'golf sidekick' good entertainment value and few good tips to be hand on the way.  

Agree with the above. To main stream to boring and a painful ten minute watch


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 13, 2020)

Think Crossfield should stick to the on course stuff - playing lessons for the viewers if you like and his product reviews which he at least backs up with some data. I think there is room in the market for him to create a nice niche doing just that and if he can mellow his tone and find a way to engage with the viewer better he could really make that corner of golfing youtube his own and probably increase subscribers and viewers


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## OneEyeRon (Sep 14, 2020)

Sats said:



			I've stopped subscribing to all but a few of the golf youtubers. I still follow companies/PGA etc but I can't be bothered with the majority of Youtubers. There is a reason why they weren't on the telly before and all social media has done is brought more trite to the table.
Paige and about 95% of the Ladies is on Instagram and it's more about them wearing a bikini than playing golf (not saying it's not appealing!)
I think my biggest reason for ditching the YouTubers are:

Rick Sheils - Could you possibly be anymore crap at content production - 70º wedge or illegal driver videos and click bait - plus his manc accent grates on me .
Me&MyGolf - Scripted. All about signing up to the website (save your money and get lessons/clubs/anything else instead.)
Peter Finch - Nice bloke, decent swing - boring to the max  and I'm not sure what he actually post videos about except what clubs he wants and how he won't get into the open.
Crossfield - Annoying. Did a good job about challenging traditional concepts - Cannot take criticism whatsoever and is childish about it.
Top Bloke - Would never get bored of kicking this bloke in the face.

I forget the rest they seem to blend into one collage of banality.

Rant over.
		
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Enjoyable rant, thank you!

Thoughts on James "not gonna lie" Robinson?


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## Sats (Sep 14, 2020)

OneEyeRon said:



			Enjoyable rant, thank you!

Thoughts on James "not gonna lie" Robinson?
		
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He sits in the collage of banality  Honestly I haven't really watched his stuff.


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## larmen (Sep 14, 2020)

Robinson does too much. He has about 1 1/2 good videos a week in him but publishes a new one every day. I think he is spreading himself too thin.
I enjoyed him when he came into the scene around the youtube golf day last year, but I got off him during the lockdown. Probably means I am back watching his stuff in 6 months time ;-)


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## Crow (Sep 14, 2020)

James Robinson is another one who thinks like most vloggers (probably more so than most) that quick camera changes to a close up of his face for an aside then out again are clever and make the vlog snappy.
Nothing annoys me more and I quickly move on to something else.

Steve Johnston is another who insists on doing this which is a shame as otherwise I like his stuff but I can't watch to the end.


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## Imurg (Sep 14, 2020)

I make a point of not watching any video who's thumbnail has a dirty great red arrow pointing to the theme of the video that is so obviously placed in the picture that Stevie Wonder would see it....
Hence James Robinson Matt Fryer and GolfMates don't get much airtime from me.


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## garyinderry (Sep 14, 2020)

Crow said:



			James Robinson is another one who thinks like most vloggers (probably more so than most) that quick camera changes to a close up of his face for an aside then out again are clever and make the vlog snappy.
Nothing annoys me more and I quickly move on to something else.

Steve Johnston is another who insists on doing this which is a shame as otherwise I like his stuff but I can't watch to the end.
		
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Hahaha


Nailed.   Gets old quick that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 14, 2020)

Sats said:



			I've stopped subscribing to all but a few of the golf youtubers. I still follow companies/PGA etc but I can't be bothered with the majority of Youtubers. There is a reason why they weren't on the telly before and all social media has done is brought more trite to the table.
Paige and about 95% of the Ladies is on Instagram and it's more about them wearing a bikini than playing golf (not saying it's not appealing!)
I think my biggest reason for ditching the YouTubers are:

Rick Sheils - Could you possibly be anymore crap at content production - 70º wedge or illegal driver videos and click bait - plus his manc accent grates on me .
Me&MyGolf - Scripted. All about signing up to the website (save your money and get lessons/clubs/anything else instead.)
Peter Finch - Nice bloke, decent swing - boring to the max  and I'm not sure what he actually post videos about except what clubs he wants and how he won't get into the open.
Crossfield - Annoying. Did a good job about challenging traditional concepts - Cannot take criticism whatsoever and is childish about it.
Top Bloke - Would never get bored of kicking this bloke in the face.

I forget the rest they seem to blend into one collage of banality.

Rant over.
		
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Top bloke I'd never get tired of reversing over his face. Waste of space. Shiels is now forced to use click bait to get the views to earn the cash. Finch I think has simply lost his way. Historically he has done some good content but now he seems unsure where to go or what to do and so "The Quest! is what he falls back to. I think he'll come back better. Me and My Golf are adidas/TM mouthpieces and won't do anything to upset their paymasters or take any risks. Very dull and repeated content. Crossfield I still think is relevant when he doesn't spit the dummy out. He produces some good content and backs it with data. When he goes off on one then unwatchable


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## timd77 (Sep 14, 2020)

Crow said:



			James Robinson is another one who thinks like most vloggers (probably more so than most) that quick camera changes to a close up of his face for an aside then out again are clever and make the vlog snappy.
Nothing annoys me more and I quickly move on to something else.

Steve Johnston is another who insists on doing this which is a shame as otherwise I like his stuff but I can't watch to the end.
		
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It’s the thumbnails that do me. It’s either him with his hand over his mouth acting shocked, or, erm it’s him with his hand over his mouth acting shocked. Found his vlogs very boring too.

I don’t mind Matt fryer for the odd instruction vid if I’ve got a spare 10 mins. He seems a nice enough chap.


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## larmen (Sep 14, 2020)

timd77 said:



			It’s the thumbnails that do me. It’s either him with his hand over his mouth acting shocked, or, erm it’s him with his hand over his mouth acting shocked.
		
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Did you email him about it? ;-)
(Check his twitter for reference)


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## Slab (Sep 15, 2020)

My only issue with Rick Shiels is that he repeats the headline phrase/s so many times in such short vids, whether its the wedge or the starter set or whatever video i've seen

Maybe its how long filming takes he just doesn't realise or how he preempts the edit points, but he'll repeat "70 degree" or "£xxx" price so often until it just grates and its all you can hear


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## timd77 (Sep 15, 2020)

larmen said:



			Did you email him about it? ;-)
(Check his twitter for reference)
		
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Just looked, can’t see what you’re referring to?


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## Patster1969 (Sep 15, 2020)

I don't really watch a lot of the instruction videos tbh (there's so many).  I mostly watch the fun reviews (as I want to see something fun sometimes) or the course vlogs that Shiels/Finch do, as I enjoy seeing courses that I haven't played or am unlikely to play.  It's also refreshing to see how often PGA pros struggle with scoring/consistency, as it makes me realise that no matter how good you are (or how good you think a coaching professional should be), no one ever 'gets' this stupid, annoying but wonderful game. 
Have felt a bit sorry for Finch on occasion watching his quest for the open videos, as he looks genuinely crushed on some of these - it just shows the gap between a coaching pro and a touring pro


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## Dan2501 (Sep 15, 2020)

Crow said:



			James Robinson is another one who thinks like most vloggers (probably more so than most) that quick camera changes to a close up of his face for an aside then out again are clever and make the vlog snappy.
Nothing annoys me more and I quickly move on to something else.
		
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It's not to make the vlog snappy, in-fact it's the opposite. Videos over 10 minutes gain more ad-revenue so Youtubers end up stretching out their content to make it last at least that amount of time. So when they're not really saying anything interesting or just filling time they make it look more "interesting" by constantly flicking between camera angles to keep your brain engaged. TV Production is much the same. If you watch any trash reality TV shows it's full of this. Listening to the Kardashian's talk for half an hour would be utterly mind-numbing, so to make the inane nonsense they talk seem interesting they add in a ton of camera angle changes, zooming in and out, switching to them talking straight to camera. The camera never stays still on anything long enough for you to realise there's nothing actually happening.


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## i*windows (Sep 15, 2020)

Just watch Alex Evan's "CHRONICLES OF A NOT YET CHAMPION GOLFER ", it's just a damn good golf channel, fun, informative and doesnt take itself seriously


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## LegendOle (Sep 17, 2020)

Big fan of Erik Anders Lang and his Random Golf Club stuff👍


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## GGTTH (Sep 19, 2020)

I just watched Finch latest vlog with his dad. His dad has so much charisma.


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## IainP (Nov 21, 2020)

I tend to dip in & out the YouTube usual suspects but am going to mention James Wilshire as don't think he has so far.
I'm probably not the target audience, he's closer in age to my children 🙂, and says literally too often 😁 but I've found myself going back to his channel more.
He's a former long driver and gym bunny now trying to give golf proper a go. He's been quite open documenting a few blow ups on the Jamega this year, I think I relate to his tendency to over think on the course and sometimes be over technical.
Anyway reason for posting today, a guy called Steve Surry (Sunshine tour regular) had been helping him out recently- trying to show him how to manage a round, build a score etc. Possibly due to lockdown James went out to Joburg to caddy (well film) for Steve. Steve is currently on the Euro tour leaderboard.


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## pendodave (Nov 21, 2020)

IainP said:



			I tend to dip in & out the YouTube usual suspects but am going to mention James Wilshire as don't think he has so far.
I'm probably not the target audience, he's closer in age to my children 🙂, and says literally too often 😁 but I've found myself going back to his channel more.
He's a former long driver and gym bunny now trying to give golf proper a go. He's been quite open documenting a few blow ups on the Jamega this year, I think I relate to his tendency to over think on the course and sometimes be over technical.
Anyway reason for posting today, a guy called Steve Surry (Sunshine tour regular) had been helping him out recently- trying to show him how to manage a round, build a score etc. Possibly due to lockdown James went out to Joburg to caddy (well film) for Steve. Steve is currently on the Euro tour leaderboard.
		
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Back in the day, steve stury's mum used to contribute to one of the forums, but I can't remember if it was this one, golfmagic(most likely, but does it even exist anymore), or golfwrx. It was when he was at a similar stage in his career to where GJ is now iirc, and gacve some insight into the precarious existence of a young pro. Glad to see he's still at it.
On GJ, i remember when he was one of crossfields shopboys! I think he was between lockey and buzza (though buzza was more of a 'proper' pro I think).


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## evemccc (Nov 21, 2020)

pendodave said:



			Back in the day, steve stury's mum used to contribute to one of the forums, but I can't remember if it was this one, golfmagic(most likely, but does it even exist anymore), or golfwrx. It was when he was at a similar stage in his career to where GJ is now iirc, and gacve some insight into the precarious existence of a young pro. Glad to see he's still at it.
On GJ, i remember when he was one of crossfields shopboys! I think he was between lockey and buzza (though buzza was more of a 'proper' pro I think).
		
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I have seen a little of this. JW comes across okay, and it’s an interesting channel but I really think Steve Surry comes across really well.

Hope he does well for himself as he seems a good pro and nice fellow


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 21, 2020)

Saw a bit of Steve Surry in a Jamega Tour event at Royal Ascot. Great first round but fell away and surprisingly only 19th on their OOM. I would have thought maybe higher but if he has Europro and Sunshine Tour playing rights I assume he only plays a limited Jamega schedule to keep playing competitively.


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## YorkshireStu (Nov 21, 2020)

I’m not really sure what niche MC fills to be honest...

Golf Sidekick - course management vlogs, breaking 100 series, breaking 90 etc

Golf Mates - a bit silly but entertaining course vlogs

Danny Maude and Chris Ryan - excellent tuition, likeable guy

Bad Golf - course vlogs, normal guys barely past beginners at the start, bad to improving standard handicap

Rich Shiels, Pete Finch, James Robinson - all round content, mixed bag but worth subscribing too

... with MC, I’m not sure what he does that the above I subscribe to don’t do better? I liked his ball reviews but I don’t trust his club reviews. Vlogs aren’t as well produced as Golf Mates, Bad Golf etc...


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