# Ban Smoking on Golf Courses



## KenL (Mar 13, 2015)

Just watching golf on Sky and saw someone smoking a cigarette.

I am sure we would all agree that golf is a sport.  In my view smoking has no place in sport.

So, should smoking be banned on golf courses?  Discuss...


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## SVB (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm a non-smoker but think even I would find if difficult to object to someone lighting up in the middle of 395 wind-swept acres!

Some balance / tolerence and proportion is required I think.


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## snell (Mar 13, 2015)

Personally I believe it should.  Nothing worse than leaning over to put your tee peg in the ground, only to be greeted by a manky old fag butt....A vile habit


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## triple_bogey (Mar 13, 2015)

What else needs banning in life? What people CHOOSE what to do is none of my business. 
Drinkings a vile habit, but a large proportion of the population enjoys it.


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2015)

triple_bogey said:



			What else needs banning in life? What people CHOOSE what to do is none of my business. 
*Drinkings a vile habit*, but a large proportion of the population enjoys it.
		
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Why? Surely it depends on what level you're doing it. If you're having a couple of glasses of wine on a Friday evening after work I can't see the problem. If you're having 15 pints, throwing up in the street and then fighting the police then it's more of a problem. And then there's functioning alcoholics that can drink a bottle of vodka each night but still hold down a job and family life. 

Why do you think drinking is so vile? Genuinely interested in your thoughts.


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## KenL (Mar 13, 2015)

Excellent, a debate!

I hate the smell of cig smoke.  Nothing worse than being outdoors about to hit the best drive of your life and having to try and block out the waft of someone smoking within a few feet of you.


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## Oxfordcomma (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm an ex-smoker so you'd expect me to be pretty anti, it surprises me nowadays how much I notice the smell. 

But yesterday I played 18 holes with someone who appears to roll a fag between each shot, rather than between each hole. And it really didn't bother me for even a split second! As SVB said we're outside when we're on the course and if a guy can't smoke outside, well away from any buildings (in fact usually well away from any fairways or greens too ) then where can he smoke?


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## Big D 88 (Mar 13, 2015)

My father, mother, and both siblings smoke - you could call me the black sheep of the family...

But i honestly hate all this 'ban smoking' malarkey. 

If its not within the confines of a building, then whats the problem? Each to their own.


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## delc (Mar 13, 2015)

We have at least a couple of senior golfers at our club who virtually chain smoke their way around the course, and have done so for many years and not yet died as a result, so they wouldn't be very happy if smoking was banned. Smoking is banned in the clubhouse though.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 13, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Why? Surely it depends on what level you're doing it. If you're having a couple of glasses of wine on a Friday evening after work I can't see the problem. If you're having 15 pints, throwing up in the street and then fighting the police then it's more of a problem. And then there's functioning alcoholics that can drink a bottle of vodka each night but still hold down a job and family life. 

Why do you think drinking is so vile? Genuinely interested in your thoughts.
		
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It was just an example of a habit that many enjoy. Me included. Does that also need banning? Both are not good for the health. 
Participation in golf is slowly in decline, banning smoking will only drive it down further.


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## Odvan (Mar 13, 2015)

KenL said:



			Just watching golf on Sky and saw someone smoking a cigarette.

I am sure we would all agree that golf is a sport.  In my view smoking has no place in sport.

So, should smoking be banned on golf courses?  Discuss...
		
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Oh god. This is a popcorn thread. Where's Louise...

Do you go outside when you have the flu, a cold, a cough?

I imagine you do. BAN YOU EVIL MAN. 

I smoke. I respect those that don't on and off the course. In my own car, I'll ask a passenger if they mind me smoking. I'll stand away from people or ensure that the breeze is blowing the smoke the opposite way. Hell, I'll even make sure my 2yr old only has one roll up a week. 

How do you think this would be enforced and also how would it affect memberships? 

Digressing slightly but an old colleague of mine wouldn't park next to my car on the car park because I was a smoker....

Sometimes I think us smokers are more saine, despite the risks.


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## KenL (Mar 13, 2015)

Has banning smoking in pubs affected attendance there?  Probably too difficult to say for sure with the smoking ban coming at the same time to the economic downturn. I am certainly more happy to visit a pub or restaurant knowing there won't be heavy smoke in the air.

To protect the future of the sport we need to promote it as something cool for young men and women to do. Make it cool and trendy, not just a game for seniors.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 13, 2015)

They must have because the past few years, so many pubs have closed down around my area and next door towns.

Banning smoking, no mobiles, no denim, white ankle socks with shorts only(men) etc...is NOT a good promotion for today's youth. You're ideals are not in tune with the youngsters of today I'm afraid.


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## chillicon (Mar 13, 2015)

Utter nonsense. That is all.


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## Odvan (Mar 13, 2015)

KenL said:



			Has banning smoking in pubs affected attendance there? Probably too difficult to say for sure with the smoking ban coming at the same time to the economic downturn. I am certainly more happy to visit a pub or restaurant knowing there won't be heavy smoke in the air.

To protect the future of the sport we need to promote it as something cool for young men and women to do. Make it cool and trendy, not just a game for seniors.
		
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Yes, it has! Pubs have been closing en masse - for a combination of reasons as you say, but definitely a major factor.

I too couldn't imagine a time when I walked into a hazy, smokey horrible pub - it's far better with the ban. Far better. Remember, I smoke. I wouldn't have it any other way now.

But your latter point is rather lame Ken I'm afraid to say and I don't quite get it.

So, how would it be enforced again and do you think that memberships wouldn't drop whilst at the same time, junior and youth participation increase, solely because I couldn't smoke on the course? 

Oh, and have you ever walked outside with the flu? Do you always wipe a keyboard and phone after usage?

Is this a wind up thread?


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## sawtooth (Mar 13, 2015)

I dont smoke but playing golf with people who do does not bother me in the slightest. Its different in confined spaces but out in the open live and let live I say.


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## garyinderry (Mar 14, 2015)




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## triple_bogey (Mar 14, 2015)

One of the most unpopular players on Tour.......  Vile habit


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## snell (Mar 14, 2015)

I detest playing with smokers, keep your cancer smoke to yourself I say


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## Odvan (Mar 14, 2015)

snell said:



			I detest playing with smokers, keep your cancer smoke to yourself I say
		
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:clap::clap::clap:


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## CMAC (Mar 14, 2015)

snell said:



			Personally I believe it should.  Nothing worse than leaning over to put your tee peg in the ground, only to be greeted by a manky old fag butt....A vile habit
		
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what about a saliva globule so many insist on spitting- or the disgusting creatures who urinate near the tee? ban as well?



KenL said:



			Excellent, a debate!

I hate the smell of cig smoke.  Nothing worse than being outdoors about to hit the best drive of your life and having to try and block out the waft of someone smoking within a few feet of you.
		
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what about the farter, ban him? or the heavy garlic eater? how about the (many) blokes who's body odour hygene leaves a lot to be desired, Ban?


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## backwoodsman (Mar 14, 2015)

CMAC said:



			what about the farter, ban him? or the heavy garlic eater? Ban?
		
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Oh dear! Thats me done then.

As to smoking, if you're outdoors and someone's smoke bothers you, you can always move up-wind of them. Or even to politely ask them to stand down-wind of you would be acceptable. But to ban it? Get real.

Fag nubs on the other hand are litter. But only like any other litter. People who drop litter should rapped over the knuckles with the sharp edge of a putter, and then have the thinner end inserted somewhere delicate as they are made to bend over to pick it up.

Just so as you know, this stance taken as an ex smoker who used to have a pocketful of nubs until a bin could be found.


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## Smiffy (Mar 14, 2015)

KenL said:



			To protect the future of the sport we need to promote it as something cool for young men and women to do. Make it cool and trendy, not just a game for seniors.
		
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I'm assuming it was a Seniors tour event you were watching?


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## Smiffy (Mar 14, 2015)

Oxfordcomma said:



			But yesterday I played 18 holes with someone who appears to roll a fag between each shot, rather than between each hole. If a guy can't smoke outside, well away from any buildings (*in fact usually well away from any fairways or greens too* ) then where can he smoke?
		
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You cheeky git!!!


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## Fish (Mar 14, 2015)

I reckon they should paint those metal floor ashtrays as tee blocks so 1 is for butt ends and the other for broken tees, simples


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 14, 2015)

KenL said:



			To protect the future of the sport we need to promote it as something cool for young men and women to do. Make it cool and trendy, not just a game for seniors.
		
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Have you not seen Miguel with his Aviators on,puffing on a Cigar? 
You'll struggle to find anyone looking Cooler on th golf course.
He makes me want to start smoking.


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## KenL (Mar 14, 2015)

Miguel is cool but not beca use of the cigar.
I apologise that this thread caused so much ire, it wasn't meant to, honest &#9786;


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 14, 2015)

I hate smoking and I hate the smell of the smoke but if someone wants to smoke when playing golf that's up to them and doesn't bother me at all.

Are you going to ban people with hip flasks full of gin and whisky too? What about those who enjoy the odd beer on a summer day?

None of those things are for me but as long as those partaking aren't doing it to excess or causing a disturbance then let them get on with it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2015)

Just ban Smiffy ? 

I used to smoke years ago and can't see why you need to ban people from smoking on a golf course 

Any person I have played with who smoked has never caused any issue


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## Fish (Mar 14, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just ban Smiffy ? 

I used to smoke years ago and can't see why you need to ban people from smoking on a golf course 

Any person I have played with who smoked has never caused any issue
		
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Are they causing an issue when on the green and they throw there ciggie on the floor to putt whilst its burning away only then to pick it back up and carry on?

Just asking :mmm:

It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but just like litter, I don't like to see discarded fag ends on greens, tee boxes or anywhere tbh, use the bins!


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## Break90 (Mar 14, 2015)

KenL said:



			Excellent, a debate!

I hate the smell of cig smoke.  Nothing worse than being outdoors about to hit the best drive of your life and having to try and block out the waft of someone smoking within a few feet of you.
		
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#firstworldproblems

is there really 'nothing worse' in your life?

im an ex-smoker by the way.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2015)

Fish said:



			Are they causing an issue when on the green and they throw there ciggie on the floor to putt whilst its burning away only then to pick it back up and carry on?

Just asking :mmm:

It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but just like litter, I don't like to see discarded fag ends on greens, tee boxes or anywhere tbh, use the bins!
		
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Yes the people who do that will cause an issue and that's just a lack of common sense and total disregard for the green - same with people smacking the green with their putter when they miss. 

Thankfully I haven't witnessed anyone leave a smouldering cig on the green and would hope no one here would do it 

And yeah agree about the litter - use the bin


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## Smiffy (Mar 14, 2015)

I sometimes rest mine on the tee marker but generally just tee off with it hanging out of the corner of my mouth.
I use it as an aligning aid........


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 14, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I sometimes rest mine on the tee marker but generally just tee off with it hanging out of the corner of my mouth.
I use it as an aligning aid........
		
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Try blowing a few smoke rings the next time you nail one down the middle of the fairway,you'll look well cool. 
Pahahaha


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## Markw (Mar 14, 2015)

Haha, what about vaping? I vape like a steam train all the way round and regularly playing partners mention the smell of popcorn or candy floss when playing! The kit I use does throw out some clouds so I try to stand downwind when on tee box or green!


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## louise_a (Mar 14, 2015)

I smoke when playing and I try to stay down wind of playing partners, I also have a special pouch for putting cigs out in so I don't litter the fairways.


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## Khamelion (Mar 14, 2015)

I've got no problem with people smoking anywhere, as long as it's not near me, it's their life and money, up to them what they do with it.

As for smokers on the course, the lad that plays with me and Kraxx on a Saturday smokes those little cafÃ© crÃ¨me cigars, no problem with that, he's courteous to stand away from us when we tee off and when walking down the fairway, he's always down wind so his smoke doesn't blow past us.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 14, 2015)

louise_a said:



			I smoke when playing and I try to stay down wind of playing partners, *I also have a special pouch for putting cigs out in so I don't litter the fairways.*

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the bit that I find most annoying about smokers is that most of them seem to think throwing the butts on the ground is perfectly acceptable.


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## John_R7 (Mar 14, 2015)

I am an ex smoker now vaping like a train as per Markw. (Don't want to hijack but what is your kit Mark?)

Smoking is like everything -  you will get 'good & bad' people. A few baddies should not stereotype an entire mass of smokers.
Outdoors is a BIG place, you can always find a spot so smoke avoids others. I even try to keep my vape clouds away from others.
I do not like the smell of smoke anymore - one of the main reasons I stopped, but live & let live. No issue at all with people smoking on golf courses or anywhere else outdoors.


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## Foxholer (Mar 14, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I sometimes rest mine on the tee marker but generally just tee off with it hanging out of the corner of my mouth.
I use it as an aligning aid........
		
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Seen this? http://www.golftipreviews.com/2011/09/golf-swing-drill-hogan-watch-ball-head.html

You are in pretty renowned company!

http://www.golf-new-zealand.com/recent-posts/a-heads-up-on-hogan-smoking


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## richart (Mar 14, 2015)

louise_a said:



			I smoke when playing and I try to stay down wind of playing partners, I also have a special pouch for putting cigs out in so I don't litter the fairways.
		
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 I always try and stay up wind of Smiffy, but that has nothing to do with his smoking.


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## Oddsocks (Mar 14, 2015)

No problem with smoking on the course at all, just the butts being left but to be honest it's minimal


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## Dan2501 (Mar 14, 2015)

Shouldn't just be banned on golf courses. Should be made illegal full stop. It's disgusting. People compare it to alcohol but that comparison is weak. You can't get second degree drunkenness sat next to a fella drinking a pint.


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## Foxholer (Mar 14, 2015)

I have no problem with folk who are prepared to endanger their health and keep my taxes down!

As long as they don't leave their butts on the green, that's fine with me. I'd sooner they disposed of them in better places than just dropping them, but can live with that.

It's a pleasure to play with a guy who smokes cigars - though he hates smokers who simply drop their non-biodegradable butts on fairways.

I hate being told what I can't do even more than being told what I must do, so would be very anti on-course smoking bans!


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 14, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Shouldn't just be banned on golf courses. Should be made illegal full stop. It's disgusting. People compare it to alcohol but that comparison is weak. You can't get second degree drunkenness sat next to a fella drinking a pint.
		
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In this day in age you no longer have to be subjected to passive smoking.so I can't see why it should be made illegal. 
As a none smoker I think the smoking ban is the best thing to happen,but I don't have a problem if others choose to smoke.


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## Markw (Mar 14, 2015)

John_R7 said:



			I am an ex smoker now vaping like a train as per Markw. (Don't want to hijack but what is your kit Mark?)
QUOTE]

I have lots of kit as I have been vaping a long time and got strange looks at first(7 years)
At the moment I use a istick 30w with a naturevape midi procoil for everyday/golf use and also carry a sigelei 50w with a delta 2 for a bit of sub ohm vaping and huge clouds!
		
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## Dan2501 (Mar 14, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			In this day in age you no longer have to be subjected to passive smoking.so I can't see why it should be made illegal. 
As a none smoker I think the smoking ban is the best thing to happen,but I don't have a problem if others choose to smoke.
		
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Regularly walk through a town centre on my way to work and have to move out of the way of someone that's smoking so I don't have to enhale their second hand smoke. It's disgusting, and it's ridiculous that people are still able to do something that is so obviously bad for you, has no medicinal benefits (unlike something like Marijuana) and is harmful to people around you. If there wasn't so much taxation money in it, it'd be illegal.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 14, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Regularly walk through a town centre on my way to work and have to move out of the way of someone that's smoking so I don't have to enhale their second hand smoke. It's disgusting, and it's ridiculous that people are still able to do something that is so obviously bad for you, has no medicinal benefits (unlike something like Marijuana) and is harmful to people around you. If there wasn't so much taxation money in it, it'd be illegal.
		
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Fair enough mate,everyone's entitled to an opinion. 
I certainly find it better not stinking of smoke after a night out.


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## John_R7 (Mar 14, 2015)

Markw - Pretty similar!!
Started 50/50 at least 5 years ago - ZERO tobacco products for the last 2.
I have had original istick for 3 months, now have second istick30 for 3 weeks and switch between the two. Tooting like a train I do a battery in 1.5 ~ 2 days, about 5ml of juice. The second battery is always charged and waiting in the car/pocket.

Atomiser is Kangertech EMOW. I re-build my own coils so 'similar' to naturevape (which I had never heard of).
I also mix my own juice (last 6 months) - really easy, know what's going in & cheap as chips!

Tried (trying) sub ohm currently but not yet nailed a good coil wind that ticks all the boxes. Mainly using 1.5ohm.
EDIT - use many online retailers but recently found vapeinc. GREAT value to start with but after you 'pay' put in code POTV15 for extra 15% off :whoo:


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## GB72 (Mar 14, 2015)

Markw said:





John_R7 said:



			I am an ex smoker now vaping like a train as per Markw. (Don't want to hijack but what is your kit Mark?)
QUOTE]

I have lots of kit as I have been vaping a long time and got strange looks at first(7 years)
At the moment I use a istick 30w with a naturevape midi procoil for everyday/golf use and also carry a sigelei 50w with a delta 2 for a bit of sub ohm vaping and huge clouds!
		
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I am on the istick as well but the older 20w. Need to upgrade to try sub ohm vaping. That with a aerotank full of scorpion blood and i am happy.
		
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## Markw (Mar 14, 2015)

John_R7 said:



			Markw - Pretty similar!!
Started 50/50 at least 5 years ago - ZERO tobacco products for the last 2.
I have had original istick for 3 months, now have second istick30 for 3 weeks and switch between the two. Tooting like a train I do a battery in 1.5 ~ 2 days, about 5ml of juice. The second battery is always charged and waiting in the car/pocket.

Atomiser is Kangertech EMOW. I re-build my own coils so 'similar' to naturevape (which I had never heard of).
I also mix my own juice (last 6 months) - really easy, know what's going in & cheap as chips!

Tried (trying) sub ohm currently but not yet nailed a good coil wind that ticks all the boxes. Mainly using 1.5ohm.
		
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Cool, I have re coiled in the past but with the procoils lasting me 3-4 months just rewicking and costing Â£6 I cant be bothered anymore! The delta 2 also has the rba and they are Â£2.99 for 5 perfect 0.9ohm pre wicked coils!
I started mixing my own very early so about 6 years now and import 75mg nicotine from usa at 3 litres at a time!


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## MizunoGreyhound (Mar 14, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			I have no problem with folk who are prepared to endanger their health and keep my taxes down!

As long as they don't leave their butts on the green, that's fine with me. I'd sooner they disposed of them in better places than just dropping them, but can live with that.

It's a pleasure to play with a guy who smokes cigars - though he hates smokers who simply drop their non-biodegradable butts on fairways.

I hate being told what I can't do even more than being told what I must do, so would be very anti on-course smoking bans!
		
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Cigars have a very pleasant aroma when smoked as a generalisation. I am a non-smoker, but at certain times of year it helps to have a smoker in your group as it keeps wasps, midges and the likes away.


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## DanFST (Mar 14, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Shouldn't just be banned on golf courses. Should be made illegal full stop. It's disgusting.
		
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I think your posts are that ridiculous you should be banned. Actually you should be arrested. It's disgusting.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2015)

I banned smoking for four weeks on a course when I was a HGK.
Surrey heathland course 1976, in the middle of a drought. No one smoked/no one complained.

As an aside smokers are generally a pain in the bottom on a golf course as litterers. Phag packets in the undergrowth is still quite a common site even with greatly reduced numbers.

Smokers, they are a dieing breed.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 14, 2015)

What happened 35+ years ago will simply not work in today's society. Please catch up :rofl:


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## Sweep (Mar 14, 2015)

It's not for me to tell other people what to do when they act within the law. That is one of the great things about living in a free country. I haven't met an inconsiderate smoker in years.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 14, 2015)

Sweep said:



			It's not for me to tell other people what to do when they act within the law. That is one of the great things about living in a free country. I haven't met an inconsiderate smoker in years.
		
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## User20205 (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm thinking about starting smoking on the course. I think it looks cool. There's no finer sight in golf than a chap striding down the fairway with a pipe ablaze :thup:


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## patricks148 (Mar 14, 2015)

have they not banned smoking on TV?


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## North Mimms (Mar 14, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Shouldn't just be banned on golf courses. Should be made illegal full stop. It's disgusting. People compare it to alcohol but that comparison is weak. You can't get second degree drunkenness sat next to a fella drinking a pint.
		
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You're more likely to be hit by a car driven by a drunk than a smoker


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## Slime (Mar 14, 2015)

triple_bogey said:



			What else needs banning in life? What people CHOOSE what to do is none of my business. 
*Drinkings a vile habit,* but a large proportion of the population enjoys it.
		
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Probably the most stupid comment I've ever read ................................ and I've read many stupid comments on this forum alone!



Dan2501 said:



			Shouldn't just be banned on golf courses. Should be made illegal full stop. It's disgusting. People compare it to alcohol but that comparison is weak. *You can't get second degree drunkenness sat next to a fella drinking a pint*.
		
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And, if you're going to make silly comparisons, how many deaths each year are attributed to smoking and driving?

As to the OP, of course it shouldn't be banned except in times of severe drought when courses could catch fire easily.

Making it illegal would be good though, I might actually be able to stop!


*Slime*.


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## Hobbit (Mar 14, 2015)

All winter I've been stuck in a cabin in darkest, northern Iceland. During the winter the polar bears have ravaged my bin bags, and wolves have kept me awake with their constant howling. The water in my taps has frozen and my supplies of licorice allsorts is running low. Whilst this has been going on there's been wars in the middle east, plane crashes, multiple shootings in the USA(normal service), various kidnappings and the Greek govt wants to renege on its debt.

Think I broke a finger nail in January... oh, and someone wants to ban smoking on the golf course...


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## drdel (Mar 14, 2015)

The health evidence is there so smokers are plainly daft and must be deaf, dumb and blind not to get the message -I wonder how they still manage to play golf ? - but as long as they pick up their fag ends and empty packets they can do it anywhere outside.


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## Wayman (Mar 14, 2015)

Im not a smoker but I don't see a problem if they ain't slowing up play and not smoking next to me let them crack on


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## User20205 (Mar 14, 2015)

drdel said:



			The health evidence is there so smokers are plainly daft and must be deaf, dumb and blind not to get the message -I wonder how they still manage to play golf ? - but as long as they pick up their fag ends and empty packets they can do it anywhere outside.
		
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Agree with the littering. However I don't see a problem with knocking out my pipe on the ball washer. :thup:


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## Foxholer (Mar 14, 2015)

drdel said:



			The health evidence is there so smokers are plainly daft and must be deaf, dumb and blind not to get the message -I wonder how they still manage to play golf ? - but as long as they pick up their fag ends and empty packets they can do it anywhere outside.
		
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There are, however, some daft 'health consultants'! My ex's Grandfather was advised by his Doctor to stop smoking his pipe because it was 'unhealthy'. He was 83 at the time! The Doctor did turn out to be correct though. The guy never really recovered from the kick he got from the horse while he was lighting the pipe! This was the same guy that got through about 6000 KCal/day and huge amounts of cholesterol without putting on weight or having other problems associated with such a diet - as a Dairy/Mixed farmer, where 6000 KCal per day was required to withstand/survive that lifestyle!


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 14, 2015)

Both parents smoked heavily for many years although I've never done it. I've no issues with anyone choosing to smoke in the wide open space of a golf course although it's important, especially in the summer that those who do, make sure their cigarette is properly out so it doesn't potentially start a fire in the dry grass.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 14, 2015)

Slime said:



			Probably the most stupid comment I've ever read ................................ and I've read many stupid comments on this forum alone
		
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Lord Almighty, it was a tongue in cheek comment. It was purely a stab at the PC brigade. I already state further down the thread that I too enjoy the odd drink or two. 

And you wonder why golfers get a bad rep, such a inane group...:rofl:


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## tugglesf239 (Mar 14, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Shouldn't just be banned on golf courses. Should be made illegal full stop. It's disgusting. People compare it to alcohol but that comparison is weak. You can't get second degree drunkenness sat next to a fella drinking a pint.
		
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Just like you wont get a pint pot smashed into your face by someone just smoking an L&B.......

I love a beer and love a smoke but booze is a much more vile drug. Smokers kill themselves and occasionally harm innocent bystanders. This much is true.

They also harm the NHS, but the same could be said about people who eat themselves to death, or drink themselves to death.......

Drink can ruins people lives, destroys families and can turn normally sane people into horrible, violent and abusive people.

Stop kidding yourself that booze is less harmful. Its the worst drug of them all.

(i write this with a beer in my hand by the way)


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## the smiling assassin (Mar 15, 2015)

Pleased to hear there are so many considerate smokers out there. Can't say I've EVER met a single one on the golf course. Ban it. 

A dying habit that will likely be close to extinct in 20 years time unless average IQ levels take a plunge, which with everyone poisoning themselves with more and more alcohol is a distinct possibility.


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## bobmac (Mar 15, 2015)

One in 7 road traffic accidents are caused by drunk drivers.
Therefor, 6 out of 7 road traffic accidents are caused by sober drivers.
That means you are a lot safer to drive home drunk.


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## KenL (Mar 15, 2015)

Not sure people should joke about this!

This thread was about smoking on golf courses, not drink driving.


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## bobmac (Mar 15, 2015)

KenL said:



			Not sure people should joke about this!

This thread was about smoking on golf courses, not drink driving.
		
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Apologies.


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## Fish (Mar 15, 2015)

KenL said:



			Not sure people should joke about this!

This thread was about smoking on golf courses, not drink driving.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I never drink & drive, I always pull into the lay-by






















I'll get my coat.......


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## freddielong (Mar 15, 2015)

I think smoking should be banned from all public places indoors or outdoors, it is a disgusting habit that not only kills the person doing it, it kills the people around them.


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## guest100718 (Mar 15, 2015)

NO.


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## User20205 (Mar 15, 2015)

the smiling assassin said:



			Pleased to hear there are so many considerate smokers out there. Can't say I've EVER met a single one on the golf course. Ban it. 

A dying habit that will likely be close to extinct in 20 years time unless average IQ levels take a plunge, which with everyone poisoning themselves with more and more alcohol is a distinct possibility.
		
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freddielong said:



			I think smoking should be banned from all public places indoors or outdoors, it is a disgusting habit that not only kills the person doing it, it kills the people around them.
		
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I'd disagree. The decision to smoke displays an awareness and intelligence above the norm. To continue with the habit despite having the knowledge of its damaging side effects demonstrates the intellect to challenge the status quo. 

The constant desire to ban things however demonstrates a closed minded approach normally only found in those with a sub 75 IQ. aka clinical idiots


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## garyinderry (Mar 15, 2015)

The health risks to second hand smoke must be tiny whilst in an open space like a golf course.    People don't like the smell of them. 

Stop hiding behind health risks.


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## patricks148 (Mar 15, 2015)

I was having a think about smoking and i don't know any guys that smoke. none of the guys i play with regularly smoke, but i know a lot of women that do smoke!!


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 15, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			The health risks to second hand smoke must be tiny whilst in an open space like a golf course.    People don't like the smell of them. 

Stop hiding behind health risks.
		
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Agree.
You'd have to be standing worryingly close to your playing partner to be inhaling his/hers 2nd hand smoke whilst on the course.


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## the smiling assassin (Mar 15, 2015)

therod said:



			I'd disagree. The decision to smoke displays an awareness and intelligence above the norm. To continue with the habit despite having the knowledge of its damaging side effects demonstrates the intellect to challenge the status quo. 

The constant desire to ban things however demonstrates a closed minded approach normally only found in those with a sub 75 IQ. aka clinical idiots 

Click to expand...

nice try&#128516;


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## User20205 (Mar 15, 2015)

the smiling assassin said:



			nice try&#128516;
		
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. :thup:


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 15, 2015)

I have no issues with it, other than those that just dump their fag ends on the course.


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## colint (Mar 15, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			Just like you wont get a pint pot smashed into your face by someone just smoking an L&B.......

I love a beer and love a smoke but booze is a much more vile drug. Smokers kill themselves and occasionally harm innocent bystanders. This much is true.

They also harm the NHS, but the same could be said about people who eat themselves to death, or drink themselves to death.......

Drink can ruins people lives, destroys families and can turn normally sane people into horrible, violent and abusive people.

Stop kidding yourself that booze is less harmful. Its the worst drug of them all.

(i write this with a beer in my hand by the way)
		
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It's possible to drink and eat without harming your body or anyone else's, and even make it healthier. Every single cigarette moves the smoker and potentially those around them closer to ill health or death, I don't the comparisons are valid. People abusing alcohol or food is a separate debate in my opinion


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## 6inchcup (Mar 15, 2015)

what we should BAN are NEWBIES who think they own the course,h/c of more than 18 for men,fat blokes in clothes made for kids,bags and trolleys that are as big as a shed NO ONE needs that amount of stuff for a few hours golf,trainers and jeans in clubhouse,people coming on these pages asking stupid questions JUST to start a post,what ball/bag/putter/shoe is best for me a 24 h/c who has been playing a week !!!!!!!!!! GO TO A SHOP,i notice a lot of long standing members on these pages DONT come on much and just contact each other for games etc,as for smoking not doing anyone any harm except themselves,IF you feel that strongly pack your bag and leave the course SIMPLE.:sbox:


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## User20205 (Mar 15, 2015)

6inchcup said:



			what we should BAN are NEWBIES who think they own the course,h/c of more than 18 for men,fat blokes in clothes made for kids,bags and trolleys that are as big as a shed NO ONE needs that amount of stuff for a few hours golf,trainers and jeans in clubhouse,people coming on these pages asking stupid questions JUST to start a post,what ball/bag/putter/shoe is best for me a 24 h/c who has been playing a week !!!!!!!!!! GO TO A SHOP,i notice a lot of long standing members on these pages DONT come on much and just contact each other for games etc,as for smoking not doing anyone any harm except themselves,IF you feel that strongly pack your bag and leave the course SIMPLE.:sbox:
		
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Wow you're an angry chap!!

Chill out, have a smoke


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## 6inchcup (Mar 15, 2015)

therod said:



			Wow you're an angry chap!!

Chill out, have a smoke

Click to expand...

 me angry !!!!! just telling it like it is,some been playing less than a year and think they know it all and arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhh were are those papers and roaches!!!!!!!!


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

Anybody saying that smoking on golf courses or outdoors should be banned must be a right ass or one of life's moaners!
Nowadays smoking does not affect the non smokers as its not allowed in most indoor areas and to suggest that you be at risk breathing in smoke outdoors is ludicrous! 
There are only two or three possible things to moan about smoking on the golf course, fag butts on the ground(I cant ever remember seeing one on my course), blowing smoke in someone's face while taking a shot or slow play(rolling cigarettes etc) if any of these don't affect you then you seriously need to check you're not one of life's moaners!


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## triple_bogey (Mar 15, 2015)

6inchcup said:



			what we should BAN are NEWBIES who think they own the course,h/c of more than 18 for men,fat blokes in clothes made for kids,bags and trolleys that are as big as a shed NO ONE needs that amount of stuff for a few hours golf,trainers and jeans in clubhouse,people coming on these pages asking stupid questions JUST to start a post,what ball/bag/putter/shoe is best for me a 24 h/c who has been playing a week !!!!!!!!!! GO TO A SHOP,i notice a lot of long standing members on these pages DONT come on much and just contact each other for games etc,as for smoking not doing anyone any harm except themselves,IF you feel that strongly pack your bag and leave the course SIMPLE.:sbox:
		
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:whoo: or ban members who cannot string a sentence together.................or diesels, vile horrible things. :rofl:


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

triple_bogey said:



			:whoo: or ban members who cannot string a sentence together.................or diesels, vile horrible things. :rofl: 

Click to expand...

Diesels! To keep it in perspective, how about moaning non smokers being made to wear a face mask in public to stop particulates entering their finely tuned body?


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## 6inchcup (Mar 15, 2015)

triple_bogey said:



			:whoo: or ban members who cannot string a sentence together.................or diesels, vile horrible things. :rofl: 

Click to expand...

whoa hang on he was good in the FAST N FURIOUS films.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 15, 2015)




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## Maninblack4612 (Mar 15, 2015)

And while we're on, perhaps we should ban swearing on the golf course, absolutely no need for it! (Can't remember the last round I played where I didn't swear)


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## DanFST (Mar 15, 2015)

I want a ban on pickled onion crisps and egg sandwiches on the course also. 

They smell disgusting. They also shorten my life every time someone i'm playing with has one.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 15, 2015)

I can't stand fag ends being discarded about the course.  Why do smokers not see their fag ends as litter as much as a sweet paper or anything else.  I will pick up litter - but I can't pick up fag ends - eeeurgh!  So smokers please smoke if you will - but keep your fags with you and stick them in the bin at the next tee.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2015)

I have to be honest and say I've never really noticed too many fag butts around the course but as a non-smoker I wouldn't pay that much attention. I'll have a look next time but I can't see it being a big issue


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## CharlieWebb (Mar 15, 2015)

I agree. It contradicts all the players who work endlessly on their fitness and body strength. Also has negative connotations on young junior golfers like me.


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## Break90 (Mar 15, 2015)

CharlieWebb said:



			I agree. It contradicts all the players who work endlessly on their fitness and body strength. Also has negative connotations on young junior golfers like me.
		
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It doesn't contradict any players who do or don't work endlessly on their fitness and body strength. It also has no negative connotations on golfers, young or otherwise.

nobody makes you smoke. Nobody makes you not work on your strength and fitness. 

Make your our own choices, but don't criticise others for doing the same.

caveat.....if you do smoke don't litter the golf course


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## DanFST (Mar 15, 2015)

As you may have guessed from my bitter, grating and short posts. I am a smoker. 

Calling for it to be banned? Seriously? And the irony, lots of the people calling for a ban, actually call smokers stupid!

There is no negative health consequences for you if someone your playing with is smoking. If you don't like the smell, instead of calling for a ban. Why don't you just ask the Fella/Lady if he'd mind going downwind, or away from you? Any normal person would be happy to oblige. Or if it really bothers you, you have the width of a fairway to walk down, away from said smoker.  

I will say I detest people I see chucking fag butts on the course. It's no different from any other form of littering and is just rude and disrespectful towards the groundstaff. Stub them out and chuck them in the Bin when you get to one, it's not hard.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 15, 2015)

I see a lot more broken Tees than fag butts, Why not just pick them up!!


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## Slime (Mar 15, 2015)

CharlieWebb said:



			I agree. *It contradicts all the players who work endlessly on their fitness and body strength*. Also has negative connotations on young junior golfers like me.
		
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I don't know anybody who works endlessly on their fitness and body strength, let alone a golfer!
I'm not sure you do, either.


*Slime*.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

DanFST said:



			As you may have guessed from my bitter, grating and short posts. I am a smoker. 

Calling for it to be banned? Seriously? And the irony, lots of the people calling for a ban, actually call smokers stupid!

There is no negative health consequences for you if someone your playing with is smoking. If you don't like the smell, instead of calling for a ban. Why don't you just ask the Fella/Lady if he'd mind going downwind, or away from you? Any normal person would be happy to oblige. Or if it really bothers you, you have the width of a fairway to walk down, away from said smoker.  

I will say I detest people I see chucking fag butts on the course. It's no different from any other form of littering and is just rude and disrespectful towards the groundstaff. Stub them out and chuck them in the Bin when you get to one, it's not hard.
		
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Just to correct one point 

There will always be a negative consequence if you are in the vicinity of someone smoking both inside or outside - might well be very small 

I used to smoke but stopped smoking on the golf course because I liked the company of my FC so didn't smoke whilst playing which put me on the road to quitting


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## KenL (Mar 15, 2015)

Great post Charlie Webb.

I started this thread as I feel that golf is a sport.  Smoking has no place in sport or, in my opinion, modern society.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 15, 2015)

I've never had any issues with smokers on the course. Smokers, like drinkers and those that take recreational drugs are aware of the effects and the dangers and it's a decision they choose to make and they should have the freedom to do so on the course. I can't believe given the vastness of the area we play in out in the fresh (and it was bracing in the wind) air that it is going to make too much difference to those in the vicinity


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## DanFST (Mar 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Just to correct one point 

There will always be a negative consequence if you are in the vicinity of someone smoking both inside or outside - might well be very small
		
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I won't rise to the bait, you are correct. However the effect is so tiny, going to a petrol station will most likely have more of a detrimental effect on your health.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

DanFST said:



			I won't rise to the bait, you are correct. However the effect is so tiny, going to a petrol station will most likely have more of a detrimental effect on your health.
		
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There was no bait to rise too 

If someone is smoking in your vicinity the risk is always there - I used to smoke and at times people have been caught in a cloud.


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## Fish (Mar 15, 2015)

DanFST said:



			I won't rise to the bait, you are correct. However the effect is so tiny, *going to a petrol station will most likely have more of a detrimental effect on your health*.
		
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especially with a fag in the gob :smirk:


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

KenL said:



			Great post Charlie Webb.

I started this thread as I feel that golf is a sport.  Smoking has no place in sport or, in my opinion, modern society.
		
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To a pro its a sport, to an amateur its a pastime! 
smoking has no affect on performance at all to the fitness levels required to play golf.
Luckily this country allows the freedom to make your choices and how people choose to lead their life, live and let live.


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There was no bait to rise too 

If someone is smoking in your vicinity the risk is always there - I used to smoke and at times people have been caught in a cloud.
		
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What is the risk?


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

http://atruegolfer.com/2011/08/cigarettes-and-golf/


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

Markw said:



			What is the risk?
		
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In the extreme - Cancer from passive smoking 

In the smallest sense - stinking of smoke


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## Tashyboy (Mar 15, 2015)

Not read all of this blog but I don't smoke and don't mind smoking on the course, (here's the BUT bit) but standing on the tee and seeing nub ends all over the place really grates me. As does broken tees everywhere. I play my game among other things to help get rid of a bit of stress. Although when my tyrets kicks in so does the stress levels. Smokers know the risks so I don't think anyone is going to be educated by anything that is said on this blog. 
BUT. My over riding memory of dealing with a smoker was when he had a heart attack and doing mouth to mouth on him was like kissing a full ashtray. Unfortunately he did not make it. About 42 yr old he was.


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In the extreme - Cancer from passive smoking 

In the smallest sense - stinking of smoke
		
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Haha, you are trying to get a reaction! 
Cancer from inhaling minute quantities of cig smoke that has already had most of the toxins removed? are all the non smokers dead now that frequented pubs and clubs years ago which were filled with a smog, how many people do you know died of passive smoking?

Unfortunately there is no life risk to smelling of smoke and actually probably no risk to smelling of smoke out in hundreds of acres of country air!
 I have played with players with serious BO and others that constantly break wind, that's life so I get on with it!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

Markw said:



			Haha, you are trying to get a reaction! 
Cancer from inhaling minute quantities of cig smoke that has already had most of the toxins removed? are all the non smokers dead now that frequented pubs and clubs years ago which were filled with a smog, how many people do you know died of passive smoking?

Unfortunately there is no life risk to smelling of smoke and actually probably no risk to smelling of smoke out in hundreds of acres of country air!
 I have played with players with serious BO and others that constantly break wind, that's life so I get on with it!
		
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Hence why I said in the "extreme"

Are you really trying to suggest that no one has died from passive smoking ? 

http://m.cancer.gov/topics/factsheets/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet

I know two people that have died from lung cancer despite never having a cig in their life but being exposed to second hand smoke


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hence why I said in the "extreme"

Are you really trying to suggest that no one has died from passive smoking ? 

http://m.cancer.gov/topics/factsheets/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet

I know two people that have died from lung cancer despite never having a cig in their life but being exposed to second hand smoke
		
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One important quote from that website under number 6...

'There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Even low levels of secondhand smoke can be harmful. The only way to fully protect nonsmokers from secondhand smoke is to completely eliminate smoking in indoor spaces'


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## DanFST (Mar 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I know two people that have died from lung cancer despite never having a cig in their life *but being exposed to second hand smoke*

Click to expand...

It was the secondhand smoke that gave them the cancer? Or is it if lung cancer in non smokers had it's own category, it would still be in top 10 for fatal cancers. In modern society second hand smoke outdoors on a golf course is the least of your worries. 

I would like to say I agree with the smoking ban, despite my argument above. But a line needs to be drawn.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

Markw said:



			One important quote from that website under number 6...

'There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Even low levels of secondhand smoke can be harmful. The only way to fully protect nonsmokers from secondhand smoke is to completely eliminate smoking in indoor spaces'
		
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So you now can see that second hand smoke is harmful and there will always be a risk of second hand smoke.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

DanFST said:



			It was the secondhand smoke that gave them the cancer? Or is it if lung cancer in non smokers had it's own category, it would still be in top 10 for fatal cancers. In modern society second hand smoke outdoors on a golf course is the least of your worries. 

I would like to say I agree with the smoking ban, despite my argument above. But a line needs to be drawn.
		
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Yes it was the second hand smoke that caused their lung cancer and killed them.


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So you now can see that second hand smoke is harmful and there will always be a risk of second hand smoke.
		
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No I don't! there is no risk to second hand smoke when playing golf.

You are avoiding the fact that the website you provided states the risk is in enclosed spaces?


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## tugglesf239 (Mar 15, 2015)

This thread has nothing to do with the relationship between smoking and golf

It is nothing but a thinly veiled attack on smokers, that has been jumped on the bandwagon by other individuals.

Fellas

Chill out 

Smoking is for winners and Chick's dig it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

Markw said:



			No I don't! there is no risk to second hand smoke when playing golf.
		
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Can you show me the proof to back that up please 

Second smoke is second had smoke whether it's outside or inside. The levels of risk will be different but the risk is there even if it's minimal.


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## DanFST (Mar 15, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			Smoking is for winners and Chick's dig it.
		
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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			This thread has nothing to do with the relationship between smoking and golf

It is nothing but a thinly veiled attack on smokers, that has been jumped on the bandwagon by other individuals.

Fellas

Chill out 

Smoking is for winners and Chick's dig it.






Click to expand...

Exactly right, as I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of life's moaners that play golf!


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

Wonderful scenes!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 15, 2015)

Markw said:



			Wonderful scenes!

View attachment 14432


View attachment 14430


View attachment 14431

Click to expand...


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## tugglesf239 (Mar 15, 2015)




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## Rumpokid (Mar 15, 2015)

I would ban seriously beep players in jeans first...Load of rubbish.If whom i am playing wants to spark up, go ahead  #feelthelove...And i am a non smoker.


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## Robobum (Mar 15, 2015)

Markw said:



			Exactly right, as I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of life's moaners that play golf!
		
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You're moaning about the moaners!!!!

Too busy being a "cool" smoker to worry about irony!?


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## DanFST (Mar 15, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes it was the second hand smoke that caused their lung cancer and killed them.
		
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I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. But i'm sorry you lost people close to you.


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## Markw (Mar 15, 2015)

Robobum said:



			You're moaning about the moaners!!!!

Too busy being a "cool" smoker to worry about irony!?
		
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Haha, I don't smoke! Got no problem with playing with them though, round was a bit slow yesterday and two older boys  in front asked if we wanted to join them and we agreed, the 73 year old was a rollie smoker on every hole, didn't hold us up, didn't drop butts and got the highest score out of the four ball!


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## Break90 (Mar 15, 2015)

Having never been to a forum meet yet, I'm interested to know, do many of the forum meet regulars smoke? 

And do do the vociferous anti smoking players refuse to play in the same group as the smokers?


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## tugglesf239 (Mar 15, 2015)

Break90 said:



			Having never been to a forum meet yet, I'm interested to know, do many of the forum meet regulars smoke? 

And do do the vociferous anti smoking players refuse to play in the same group as the smokers?
		
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Ha

Good question

Having never been also i cannot comment.......however

I would imagine they are to busy sniffing their own lovely smelling farts, whilst toasting to what super perfect individuals they are.


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## GB72 (Mar 15, 2015)

Until recently i smoked. Never had a complaint from the forumers i played with.


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## Break90 (Mar 15, 2015)

Break90 said:



			Having never been to a forum meet yet, I'm interested to know, do many of the forum meet regulars smoke? 

And do do the vociferous anti smoking players refuse to play in the same group as the smokers?
		
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should caveat that by stating in the interests of transparency that I was a smoker until 2 years ago.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 15, 2015)

GB72 said:



			Until recently i smoked. Never had a complaint from the forumers i played with.
		
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Keyboard warriors......:thup:


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## GB72 (Mar 15, 2015)

Maybe they were just being polite. If it was a one off game and i had a problem I would in all likelihood bottle it up to maintain a pleasant atmosphere. If it was someone i played with more often and I had an issue then i would bring it up.


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## Slab (Mar 16, 2015)

What a surreal thread 

Read all the replies but had to go back to the opening post in order to give some kind of answer

No, I donâ€™t think smoking should be banned on golf courses. Iâ€™m a smoker and go through 5-10 cigs during a round 

I might be persuaded to rethink my opinion on a ban if the concerns and arguments supporting one become rational, proportional and pertinent


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

I never, ever throw my fag butts around on the course.
I either put them in the bins provided, or will push them down in the sand in bunkers so that I know they go out properly. Damp sand is best for this.
I always rake my footprints too.


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## Toad (Mar 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I never, ever throw my fag butts around on the course.
I either put them in the bins provided, or will push them down in the sand in bunkers so that I know they go out properly. Damp sand is best for this.
I always rake my footprints too.
		
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Here fishy, fishy &#128540; 

Personally, one of my regular playing partners smokes like a chimney, does not bother me one bit. 

Think the idea of banning it outdoors is ludicrous, PC brigade gone mad.


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## backwoodsman (Mar 16, 2015)

Obviously this is an emotive topic - and as with all such issues - emotion often gets the better of reason as is demonstrated by many of the previous posts. So, a few comments to consider.

There are many places where outdoor smoking is already banned- most notably New York where smoking is banned in all parks, beaches, boardwalks and public golf courses.

There is research to demonstrate that risks associated with passive smoking exist at significant level with outdoor smoking.

Also evidence that this risk drops rapidly with separation by distance and that risk falls to "background level" at a few feet away.

Non smokers can get lung cancer from passive smoking.

Non smokers can also get lung cancer for reasons entirely unconnected with smoke.

You can make your own minds up. But I still think it is excessive to ban it entirely as individuals can take their own action to avoid risk.


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

Toad said:



			Here fishy, fishy &#128540;
		
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I really don't know what you mean?


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## freddielong (Mar 16, 2015)

Ok I don't see how you can say there is no negative health consequence of standing next to someone outdoors when you are still breathing in all that poison but I guess that's a similar lie to the one you tell yourself every day that let's you continue the disgusting habit. 

Smoking is ridiculous and in an educated country shouldn't need to be banned as no one in their right mind would be dumb enough to do it.


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## Fish (Mar 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I never, ever throw my fag butts around on the course.
I either put them in the bins provided, or will push them down in the sand in bunkers so that I know they go out properly. Damp sand is best for this.
I always rake my footprints too.
		
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I think its really thoughtful of us to provide such large ashtrays for you :smirk:


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

Fish said:



			I think its really thoughtful of us to provide such large ashtrays for you :smirk:
		
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This is why I hate playing at Royal Ashdown.
Not one bunker on the course.
Leaves me in a bit of a quandry.
Woodhall Spa is a smokers heaven though.


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## Fish (Mar 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			This is why I hate playing at Royal Ashdown.
Not one bunker on the course.
Leaves me in a bit of a quandry.
Woodhall Spa is a smokers heaven though.
		
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Hmm, I wonder if smoking contributes to slow play them, rolling them thin ciggies between shots and then specifically discarding them in the bunkers must add to the round, think I might have to do a time & motion exercise  :smirk:


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

Fish said:



			Hmm, I wonder if smoking contributes to slow play them, rolling them thin ciggies between shots
		
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Never slow anyone down rolling them mate. I will pick my moment, like if I am last one off the tee.
Which, unfortunately, is quite often


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## Slab (Mar 16, 2015)

What I find really handy for the dog-ends is that little 'butt bucket' they place every every few hundred yards
















If you cant find them on your course its often marked with a flag to help you locate it


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## backwoodsman (Mar 16, 2015)

Fish said:



			Hmm, I wonder if smoking contributes to slow play them, rolling them thin ciggies :smirk:
		
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Nope. And not worth the T&M study as any half competent "roller" wouldn't even break step for the entire process from getting the backy pouch out to lighting up.


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

backwoodsman said:



			Nope. And not worth the T&M study as any half competent "roller" wouldn't even break step for the entire process from getting the backy pouch out to lighting up.
		
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Spot on.
This is why electric trollies were invented.
Set to "slow meander" and walk along behind it whilst rolling one up.
I think this is why I don't like playing in windy conditions though.
I get really annoyed when a fag paper blows out of my hand


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## Markw (Mar 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			This is why I hate playing at Royal Ashdown.
Not one bunker on the course.
Leaves me in a bit of a quandry.
Woodhall Spa is a smokers heaven though.
		
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That shouldn't be a problem, I know at my course and a lot of others I have visited, they provide a small container filled with some sort of sand mix next to the tee box for this purpose, I noticed ours even has a scoop in each one to bury and extinguish the cigarette.


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## MadAdey (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm an ex smoker and I really do not see what the problem is. Do not stand next to someone that is smoking, then you will not be inhaling their second hand smoke, hardly takes being a rocket scientist to work that out. The tiny amounts of second hand smoke you take in during a round is virtually nothing. 

But talking of things that need banning course because they are vile and disgusting are this:

Chewing gum, I've had to scrape it from my spikes before because poeple throw it on the ground.
People that think it is OK to cough up big chunks of flem then spit them on the ground.
People that have poor personal hygiene.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2015)

MadAdey said:



			I'm an ex smoker and I really do not see what the problem is. Do not stand next to someone that is smoking, then you will not be inhaling their second hand smoke, hardly takes being a rocket scientist to work that out. The tiny amounts of second hand smoke you take in during a round is virtually nothing. 

But talking of things that need banning course because they are vile and disgusting are this:

*Chewing gum, I've had to scrape it from my spikes before because poeple throw it on the ground.
People that think it is OK to cough up big chunks of flem then spit them on the ground.
People that have poor personal hygiene.*

Click to expand...

Dustin Johnson is in trouble then

I don't think I have ever seen anyone chewing gum when I have been playing golf 

Obviously seen lots of PGA ( US ) Players spitting all over the place including on the green


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## MadAdey (Mar 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Dustin Johnson is in trouble then

I don't think I have ever seen anyone chewing gum when I have been playing golf 

Obviously seen lots of PGA ( US ) Players spitting all over the place including on the green
		
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Come to the USofA then, they all do.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2015)

MadAdey said:



			Come to the USofA then, they all do.
		
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That's seem a trait of our colonial cousins on more than just a golf course. 

Chewing gum must be a top seller over there


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## patricks148 (Mar 16, 2015)

MadAdey said:



			Come to the USofA then, they all do.
		
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How about "chewing Tobacco"?? do you see much of that?

We were behind a couple of groups of yanks at Dornoch last year and those buggers were spitting the stuff all over the place, on the greens in the bunkers.... disgusting!


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## CMAC (Mar 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



*That's seem a trait of our colonial cousins on more than just a golf course. *

Chewing gum must be a top seller over there
		
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have you walked down a high street (anywhere) recently? these white spots arent designer paving stones.


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

Markw said:



			That shouldn't be a problem, I know at my course and a lot of others I have visited, they provide a small container filled with some sort of sand mix next to the tee box for this purpose, I noticed ours even has a scoop in each one to bury and extinguish the cigarette.
		
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I've noticed those as well but always though they were used for filling in divots!
Thanks for the heads up, that will make life much, much easier for me.
It's absolutely amazing what you learn on here


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 16, 2015)

DanFST said:



			...
I will say I detest people I see chucking fag butts on the course. It's no different from any other form of littering and is just rude and disrespectful towards the groundstaff. Stub them out and chuck them in the Bin when you get to one, it's not hard.
		
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Good shout sir!  I'm absolutely not for banning smoking on the course - except maybe during extended dry periods when the course is very dry - even then I think smokers woulds take due care and not just carelessly discard fag ends and used matches on the ground.


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## Rooter (Mar 16, 2015)

I can not be bothered to read 16 pages. Probably already been said, but as long as the fag buts are carefully disposed of, i dont care. I am an ex smoker and dont care whether my PP's smoke. I actually quite like the smell still!


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## jamielaing (Mar 16, 2015)

I am a smoker and I smoke on the golf course. Never have I been told by anyone that it annoys them.

If it does annoy you then please have a look at the list of things you do that may annoy others. I am genuinely fed up of everyone deciding that smoking is the greatest irritant on the planet and that we should be pushed to a corner miles from anyone to have a cigarette. We are outside, on an expanse of open land, I'm sure a cigarette is acceptable.

The litter is an issue, granted. Maybe if this is affecting clubs some smoker posts or similar next to the bins would be a good idea.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 16, 2015)

jamielaing said:



			I am a smoker and I smoke on the golf course. Never have I been told by anyone that it annoys them.

If it does annoy you then please have a look at the list of things you do that may annoy others. I am genuinely fed up of everyone deciding that smoking is the greatest irritant on the planet and that we should be pushed to a corner miles from anyone to have a cigarette. We are outside, on an expanse of open land, I'm sure a cigarette is acceptable.

The litter is an issue, granted. Maybe if this is affecting clubs some smoker posts or similar next to the bins would be a good idea.
		
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Just don't chuck fag ends away - and please don't use the 'they are biodegradable' argument.  I pick up any litter I come across on the course - but fag ends make me boak and I just can't get myself to pick them up.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 16, 2015)

Blimey, 17 pages. I don't like smoke but in an open place I think it is okay. I would never complain to a golfer who smokes, being British yet not from Yorkshire, I avoid confrontation. However I would stay away from them when they are smoking, particularly staying upwind as I don't like smelling like an ashtray nor breathing in the smoke. On a golf course that is pretty easy to manage. 

With regards to butts for some reason smokers don't seem to consider fag ends to be litter but they are and they look a mess. I always remember my grandad, who smoked, would always stub out a cigarette and put it back in the packet if he was not near an ash tray or bin. He never threw one on the floor as he didn't like litter. If he could do it then so could others.


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## JamesR (Mar 16, 2015)

People will smoke on the course, and it'll not get banned.
I don't smoke, and I don't like the smell of smoke - as a serious asthmatic just being close to someone smoking outdoors can affect me.
But I still doubt it'll ever be banned.

But one aspect that hasn't been addressed is the smoking of players on tour.
There are often posts on this forum berating the likes of Tiger for spitting, Reed for swearing and Rory for chucking clubs etc - apparently they are role models and shouldn't do these things as little kids will copy them.
So I'm surprised that no one is after banning smoking on the televised golf as it sends out bad messages to the fans.
After all we don't want our budding little Rory's & Spieth's to be walking the fairways smoking just because Uncle JimmyNez looks cool, do we?


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

jamielaing said:



			I am a smoker and I smoke on the golf course. Never have I been told by anyone that it annoys them.

If it does annoy you then please have a look at the list of things you do that may annoy others. I am genuinely fed up of everyone deciding that smoking is the greatest irritant on the planet and that we should be pushed to a corner miles from anyone to have a cigarette. We are outside, on an expanse of open land, I'm sure a cigarette is acceptable.

The litter is an issue, granted. Maybe if this is affecting clubs some smoker posts or similar next to the bins would be a good idea.
		
Click to expand...


At last....the voice of reason


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## jamielaing (Mar 16, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Just don't chuck fag ends away - and please don't use the 'they are biodegradable' argument.  I pick up any litter I come across on the course - but fag ends make me boak and I just can't get myself to pick them up.
		
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As I said, litter is an issue. I don't throw fag ends. There is an issue, certainly at my club, where the bins on course are the metal mesh with holes so are useless for ends. Generally you will not stop the litter unless you provide the alternative.


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

I think golf is different to other sports. 

1 - you are outside
2 - you don't smoke whilst swinging the club

I used to smoke and couldn't care less if someone smokes on the golf course. Smokers have to be able to smoke somewhere!


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			Smokers have to be able to smoke somewhere!
		
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That won't go down well with a lot of the knobs on here


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			That won't go down well with a lot of the knobs on here


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You can't please all the people all the time. 

I don't fully go for the 'take your cancer smoke somewhere else' argument either. 
General pollution from cars, construction, business etc... is worse for you than a bit of second hand smoke. So if you work in a city, you should be thankful for being on a golf course with only a handful of smokers. 

People complain about the mess cigarette butts make. I see more broken tees and twix wrappers on the golf course than cigarette butts.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2015)

jamielaing said:



			I am a smoker and I smoke on the golf course. Never have I been told by anyone that it annoys them.

If it does annoy you then please have a look at the list of things you do that may annoy others. I am genuinely fed up of everyone deciding that smoking is the greatest irritant on the planet and that we should be pushed to a corner miles from anyone to have a cigarette. We are outside, on an expanse of open land, I'm sure a cigarette is acceptable.

The litter is an issue, granted. Maybe if this is affecting clubs some smoker posts or similar next to the bins would be a good idea.
		
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Let's be honest for some it's a bit more than "annoying" for them 

It is a habit with extreme health risks both directly and passive 

It's more than an "irritant" for people - it's a killer


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## Snelly (Mar 16, 2015)

I don't like to see anyone smoking because cigarettes cause lung Cancer and kill people all the time, including some people that I was very fond of.  I think anyone who smokes must be a bit crackers or not fully aware of what death via the Cancer route really looks like. 

That said, I am not in favour of banning things generally and if you do want to fill your insides with toxic tar that will shorten or even end your life then the broad open spaces of a golf course are probably one of the better places to do this.  Much better than poisoning others passively if indoors and again, with the caveat that you don't throw away your butts.


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Shouldn't just be banned on golf courses. Should be made illegal full stop. It's disgusting. People compare it to alcohol but that comparison is weak. You can't get second degree drunkenness sat next to a fella drinking a pint.
		
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No, you are right. 

Nothing bad has ever happened to a third party because of someone else having had too much to drink. 
I mean, if bad things happened when other were getting drunk we would have phrases like 'drink driving' in our vocabulary...
What about the multitude of fights that happen because people get absolutely smashed? 

There are thousands of people that are affected by the downsides of drinking;
- a drunk parent who lashes out at their kids 
- a drunk who can't keep a job or loses their house because of alcohol 
- children that lose parents due to alcohol related diseases 

The list of victims of drinking goes on and on and on. 

The cost of drinking to society is insane as well. Just because it has been deemed an acceptable drug to put in your body and the Government has successfully cornered a way to regulate and tax the industry, does not mean that drinking alcohol does not have serious downsides. 

I would 100% prefer to play golf next to someone who smoked a pack of fags during the round, than an individual who drank 2 beers, a hip flash and drove home afterwards.


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

triple_bogey said:



			What happened 35+ years ago will simply not work in today's society. Please catch up :rofl:
		
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That's not true. There are many things that happened in society 35 years ago that still happen today. 
We don't revolutionise society every year.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 16, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			...People complain about the mess cigarette butts make. I see more broken tees and twix wrappers on the golf course than cigarette butts.
		
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...though I am more than happy to pick up Twix wrappers and carry them with me to the next bin - and will often tidy up broken tee pegs - I just can't touch old discarded fag ends.


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## jamielaing (Mar 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Let's be honest for some it's a bit more than "annoying" for them 

It is a habit with extreme health risks both directly and passive 

It's more than an "irritant" for people - it's a killer
		
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In a round of golf I will smoke at the absolute most 10 cigarettes. I (and I would imagine most smoking golfers) will light a cigarette after I have hit a drive as this gives me 250-300 yards in which to smoke it. 

Ultimately I would be very surprised if my PP ever notice the smell from my cigarette as they are halfway down the fairway by the time I have lit my cigarette. If I catch them up I don't walk a touching distance away from them so they would be fine. 

You are right that it is a killer when you are subjected to passive smoking. I wouldn't class someone smoking 10 cigarettes within 100 yards of you across an afternoon passive smoking however and would be mildly irritating at best. Much in the same way as spitting, swearing, shouting irritates me.


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...though I am more than happy to pick up Twix wrappers and carry them with me to the next bin - and will often tidy up broken tee pegs - I just can't touch old discarded fag ends.
		
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Being more than happy to clean up after others shouldn't be the point though. Surely the idea is to not have rubbish littered on the course in the first place. This does relate to cigarette butts as well. 

So what's the solution - ban smoking, ban eating, ban drinking and create biodegradable tees?


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## Snelly (Mar 16, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			So what's the solution - ban smoking, ban eating, ban drinking and create biodegradable tees?
		
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Ban dickheads.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			Being more than happy to clean up after others shouldn't be the point though. Surely the idea is to not have rubbish littered on the course in the first place. This does relate to cigarette butts as well. 

So what's the solution - ban smoking, ban eating, ban drinking and create biodegradable tees?
		
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Most golf courses I seem to visit aren't full of litter - people seem to be able to put their empty cups etc in the bin 

Yet see plenty of fag ends 

Some on the edges of the green with a nice burn area


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hence why I said in the "extreme"

Are you really trying to suggest that no one has died from passive smoking ? 

http://m.cancer.gov/topics/factsheets/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet

I know two people that have died from lung cancer despite never having a cig in their life but being exposed to second hand smoke
		
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I do not believe that lung cancer is only caused by smoking or second hand smoke. 
I believe that is a myth created by those that oppose the cigarette industry. 

There will be more health damaging substances in our food chain than in cigarettes. e.g. all of the toxins that have been dumped in the sea, creating toxins in the fish we eat. Or what about the nuclear power plant in Japan, there was an expert saying that the toxins from that would cause cancer in those that ate fish exposed to the radiation.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			I do not believe that lung cancer is only caused by smoking or second hand smoke. 
I believe that is a myth created by those that oppose the cigarette industry. 

There will be more health damaging substances in our food chain than in cigarettes. e.g. all of the toxins that have been dumped in the sea, creating toxins in the fish we eat. Or what about the nuclear power plant in Japan, there was an expert saying that the toxins from that would cause cancer in those that ate fish exposed to the radiation.
		
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So all the scientific research has been done is just a myth ?!?


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So all the scientific research has been done is just a myth ?!?
		
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Did you actually read what I wrote before replying?


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## Snelly (Mar 16, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			I do not believe that lung cancer is only caused by smoking or second hand smoke. 
I believe that is a myth created by those that oppose the cigarette industry. 

There will be more health damaging substances in our food chain than in cigarettes. e.g. all of the toxins that have been dumped in the sea, creating toxins in the fish we eat. Or what about the nuclear power plant in Japan, there was an expert saying that the toxins from that would cause cancer in those that ate fish exposed to the radiation.
		
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Not hugely surprising to read this.  If you are daft enough to smoke, you are probably daft enough to hold such a ridiculous, laughable opinion that flies in the face of scientific fact.


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## jamielaing (Mar 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So all the scientific research has been done is just a myth ?!?
		
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It isn't the only cause of lung cancer. That being the myth that has been circulated. I didn't say you can't die from passive smoking. I did say that the few times I smoking within 100 yards of people on the golf course would not cause it.


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## SAPCOR1 (Mar 16, 2015)

No issues with people smoking unless it's blowing into my face.  

It's the dog ends that are the issue for me, along with banana skins, which just seem to be tossed at some places


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## Robobum (Mar 16, 2015)

Why are smokers on the golf course anyway?

Surely you are too busy impressing girls and looking hard with your cool and macho habit!


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## londonlewis (Mar 16, 2015)

Snelly said:



			Not hugely surprising to read this.  If you are daft enough to smoke, you are probably daft enough to hold such a ridiculous, laughable opinion that flies in the face of scientific fact. 

 

Click to expand...

1 - I don't smoke 

2 - I don't think your attention to detail is particularly great 

I said that 'I do not believe lung cancer is *o**nly caused by smoking or second hand smoke*'

Therefore, not all deaths from lung cancer is due to an individual being a smoker or from the effects of second hand smoke. 

Not sure if the smiley and winky face meant your post was a joke.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 16, 2015)

I suspect that within 10 years smoking in any public place, outdoor, will be banned. Smoking will only be allowed in your own home. It is the natural step looking at the way things are going.


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

Unfortunately, smoking killed my Grand-dad.

He was crossing the road to buy a pkt and got hit by a bus.
Stupid sod.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I suspect that within 10 years smoking in any public place, outdoor, will be banned. Smoking will only be allowed in your own home. It is the natural step looking at the way things are going.
		
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It's already banned within new apt blocks around here - also some social housing


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## Kellfire (Mar 16, 2015)

jamielaing said:



			It isn't the only cause of lung cancer. That being the myth that has been circulated. I didn't say you can't die from passive smoking. I did say that the few times I smoking within 100 yards of people on the golf course would not cause it.
		
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It takes only one carcinogenic molecule to cause a mutation that ultimately gives someone cancer. Obviously the more often you are exposed the more likely it is to happen but it's very possible that you breathing smoke onto someone once could give them lung cancer.


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## Fyldewhite (Mar 16, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			It takes only one carcinogenic molecule to cause a mutation that ultimately gives someone cancer. Obviously the more often you are exposed the more likely it is to happen but it's very possible that you breathing smoke onto someone once could give them lung cancer.
		
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This thread started off a bit silly and is just getting worse!!

You are of course correct in what you say but the same could be said of exhaust fumes which in cities build up to much greater concentrations than the odd waft of tobacco smoke. I'd still take my chances walking around a big city and I'd be happy to play golf in the open air with smokers...indeed I do every week. So, no, in answer to the OP, I don't think it should be banned on golf courses.


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## CharlieWebb (Mar 16, 2015)

I agree that smoking is bad. When walking on the course I see old cigarettes lying all over the place - its horrible and bad for the environment. I also agree that banning smoking on the course would severely lower the amount of people playing golf, so I would not ban it. However, I won't introduce more bins where cigarettes can be left so that they are not just thrown on the floor at my club.


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## Smiffy (Mar 16, 2015)

I throw my cigarette ends on the ground as I understand that badgers like eating them, so I want to do my bit for conservation.


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## bobmac (Mar 16, 2015)

If smoking is so poisonous that even second hand smoke can kill a non smoker, why is it that everyone who smokes doesn't die of cancer?


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## Fish (Mar 16, 2015)

jamielaing said:



			In a round of golf I will smoke at the absolute most 10 cigarettes. I (and I would imagine most smoking golfers) will light a cigarette after I have hit a drive as this gives me 250-300 yards in which to smoke it. 

Ultimately I would be very surprised if my PP ever notice the smell from my cigarette as they are halfway down the fairway by the time I have lit my cigarette. If I catch them up I don't walk a touching distance away from them so they would be fine. 

You are right that it is a killer when you are subjected to passive smoking. I wouldn't class someone smoking 10 cigarettes within 100 yards of you across an afternoon passive smoking however and would be mildly irritating at best. Much in the same way as spitting, swearing, shouting irritates me.
		
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hey up, were sneaking in a few forum distances now in as well


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## dejf (Mar 16, 2015)

To the original question - yes, I do enjoy a round of golf 100 % more if I can breathe a clean air (which is one of the primary reasons why I go to play the round ...).


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## Markw (Mar 16, 2015)

bobmac said:



			If smoking is so poisonous that even second hand smoke can kill a non smoker, why is it that everyone who smokes doesn't die of cancer?
		
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Yes something not quite right there, My grandmother still has the odd rollie at 99 years old!
The anti smoking brigade and reformed smokers are the worst going and believe any old story.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2015)

dejf said:



			To the original question - yes, I do enjoy a round of golf 100 % more if I can breathe a clean air (which is one of the primary reasons why I go to play the round ...).
		
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I really don't think you can complain that smokers stop you doing that surely


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 16, 2015)

One of my PP is a smoker, never have and never will have an issue, I get more offended walking into Asda and Tesco's and going through the gauntlet of smokers stood outside having one last drag before doing there shopping.


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## colint (Mar 16, 2015)

Markw said:



			Yes something not quite right there, My grandmother still has the odd rollie at 99 years old!
The anti smoking brigade and reformed smokers are the worst going and believe any old story.
		
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Over half of smokers die of cancer, and half of those die before they're 69. Amazes me that people choose to smoke now with everything thats know about the harm it does to your body


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## dejf (Mar 16, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I really don't think you can complain that smokers stop you doing that surely
		
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Sure, they don't, if they are not in the same flight. So unless a course is full, so that you can not choose your flight, or unless it is a tournament, it is no problem.


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## colint (Mar 16, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			One of my PP is a smoker, never have and never will have an issue, I get more offended walking into Asda and Tesco's and going through the gauntlet of smokers stood outside having one last drag before doing there shopping.
		
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Yep that's really annoying. Every smoker I've played with has always been pretty considerate, smoked while walking up the other side of the fairway or stood downwind. I'd ban it completely but don't there's a need for a ban specifically on golf courses


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## Region3 (Mar 16, 2015)

Wow.

Anyone disgusted by smoking on the course feel free to ask meet organisers not to put you out in the same group as me.


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## dejf (Mar 16, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Wow.

Anyone disgusted by smoking on the course feel free to ask meet organisers not to put you out in the same group as me.
		
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Thanks for the tip, is it a common practise?


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## Region3 (Mar 16, 2015)

dejf said:



			Thanks for the tip, is it a common practise?
		
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No, I was referring to the games organised here on the forum.


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## the smiling assassin (Mar 16, 2015)

The reality is as a friendly chap I like to chat to my playing partners as we go, and consequently suck it up and put up with the reek and frequent gag. I cannot recall an occasion when a smoking golfer has made any effort to 'stand downwind' or any other of the hilarious suggestions of thoughtfulness which have been made on this thread. Maybe I've just been unlucky and such saints do exist...obviously forum member smokers have a far higher degree of self awareness than the average smoking golfer.

To clarify my earlier comment re IQ, I thought it was fairly clear but appears not to have been the case... The vast majority of smokers in circulation established the habit at a time when it was more acceptable as a life choice than it is these days. Times have changed and it is now viewed as pretty unacceptable to  take up the habit. Those who choose to start these days are either heavily influenced by existing smokers around them, or are probably a tad dopey. My jibe about the increase in alcohol abuse leading to lower IQ's and consequently higher uptake in ciggies was tongue in cheek but probably not unfounded if my previous remark is correct.

Of course Smoking on a golf course probably isn't going to be banned, but it is going to die out sooner or later as the generation of golfers for whom it was ok to establish the habit peeters out.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 16, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Wow.

Anyone disgusted by smoking on the course feel free to ask meet organisers not to put you out in the same group as me.
		
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Just to clarify 

I certainly have no wish to see smoking banned from a golf course 

Have played with people who smoke and most are certainly aware of others and would have no issues with playing in the same three ball as uourself and others ( apart from Smiffy  )


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 16, 2015)

I've played with some of our members who "chain" it around the course. Never had an issue, rarely get a whiff of any smoke and so what if I do. We're all there to enjoy ourselves and if he needs a fag to help do that, then crack on


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## Fish (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm noticing more of these electric ciggies appearing all the time, mainly because those (not everyone) that use them seem to think they are far more acceptable to others, whereas its my understanding it mainly reduces the tar to themselves but not the nicotine, I know their graded but we as spectators don't know that when their puffing away in my immediate vicinity. I also notice them being covertly used in clubhouses and in pubs, I'm starting to see more and more people hiding them inside their jackets and taking a quick puff, will this kind of irresponsibility just backlash on them as it becomes noticed more by others and greater crackdowns are then exercised (full bans) because as always, a few idiots will always ruin it for the rest!


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## Smiffy (Mar 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would have no issues with playing in the same three ball as uourself and others *(apart from Smiffy  )*

Click to expand...

Don't worry.
Monty sees that that doesn't happen


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Don't worry.
Monty sees that that doesn't happen


Click to expand...

Good old monty 

He does well


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## Smiffy (Mar 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Good old monty 

He does well
		
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I've no complaints so far....
Other than the fact it costs me a fortune in "cat treats"


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I've no complaints so far....
Other than the fact it costs me a fortune in "cat treats"


Click to expand...



I just ask nicely -


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## chrisd (Mar 17, 2015)

I'd ban smoking completely everywhere ...... but then that's easy for me to say as I've never ever tried one!


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## londonlewis (Mar 17, 2015)

colint said:



			Over half of smokers die of cancer, and half of those die before they're 69. Amazes me that people choose to smoke now with everything thats know about the harm it does to your body
		
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Come on Colin, you can't just make up statistics! 

As of 2008, thanks to a very quick google search; 



Surprisingly, fewer than 10 *percent* of lifelong *smokers* will get lung *cancer*. Fewer yet will contract the long list of other *cancers*, such as throat or mouth *cancers*. In the game of risk, you're more likely to have a condom break than to get *cancer* from *smoking*.18 Nov 2008


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## londonlewis (Mar 17, 2015)

the smiling assassin said:



			Those who choose to start these days are either heavily influenced by existing smokers around them, or are probably a tad dopey.
		
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That's pure opinion. 
And amazing you only have two categories for those that start to smoke. 

You either think it is cool or you are a moron.


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## SugarPenguin (Mar 17, 2015)

I think Jimenez would quit golf if smoking gets banned on courses....  Nobody wants that


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## the smiling assassin (Mar 17, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			That's pure opinion. 
And amazing you only have two categories for those that start to smoke. 

You either think it is cool or you are a moron.
		
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Don't fully follow your final point...do you think I'm pro smoking?! I am anti smoking and the point highlighted was regarding those who START to smoke THESE DAYS - not days gone by- there is a fine distinction between the two. I.e. I can see that those from my generation and earlier have an accepting society to blame their habit on. Those taking up smoking more recently are on slightly shaky ground..feel free to add further categories if you wish, I don't mind.

Having grown up in a recent generation with a high level of peer pressure to indulge in activities such as smoking, alcohol abuse (ongoing) and drug use (sadly growing) I do view myself as one of a few who swam against ALL these tides, I can only hope the positive change in attitudes AGAINST smoking these days will lead to a similar turn against the culture of alcohol abuse which scars our society, even if that is an unpopular view.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 17, 2015)

SugarPenguin said:



			I think Jimenez would quit golf if smoking gets banned on courses....  Nobody wants that
		
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Serious question. Isn't it already banned on the tours? The reason I ask is that I don't recall ever seeing Jiminez smoking while playing but I do remember him lighting up pretty quickly after he got to a rest spot during a weather break a couple of years ago.


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## londonlewis (Mar 17, 2015)

the smiling assassin said:



			Don't fully follow your final point...do you think I'm pro smoking?! I am anti smoking and the point highlighted was regarding those who START to smoke THESE DAYS - not days gone by- there is a fine distinction between the two. I.e. I can see that those from my generation and earlier have an accepting society to blame their habit on. Those taking up smoking more recently are on slightly shaky ground..feel free to add further categories if you wish, I don't mind.

Having grown up in a recent generation with a high level of peer pressure to indulge in activities such as smoking, alcohol abuse (ongoing) and drug use (sadly growing) I do view myself as one of a few who swam against ALL these tides, I can only hope the positive change in attitudes AGAINST smoking these days will lead to a similar turn against the culture of alcohol abuse which scars our society, even if that is an unpopular view.
		
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My final point is a summary of the two reasons you gave for people starting to smoke in today's society. 

I think it is more complex than that and I think it is absurd to label people stupid because they smoke. Unless you are using it in the colloquial sense, in which case I agree, but some people have claimed it is an indicator to low IQ.


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## Bazzatron (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm not sure it's banned but I think the TV channels perhaps choose not to show him smoking.


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## Slab (Mar 17, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Serious question. Isn't it already banned on the tours? The reason I ask is that I don't recall ever seeing Jiminez smoking while playing but I do remember him lighting up pretty quickly after he got to a rest spot during a weather break a couple of years ago.
		
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I saw a player spark up on last weeks golf coverage, cant recall who though

Even on the few courses where smoking is already banned the ban is usually suspended if a pro tournament is held there


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## SugarPenguin (Mar 17, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Serious question. Isn't it already banned on the tours? The reason I ask is that I don't recall ever seeing Jiminez smoking while playing but I do remember him lighting up pretty quickly after he got to a rest spot during a weather break a couple of years ago.
		
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Think he was smoking in Dubai earlier in they year if I recall. Its not banned but as people have mentioned they dont seem to show it.
I dont see wy they should ban smoking on courses though. Each to their own.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 17, 2015)

SugarPenguin said:



			Think he was smoking in Dubai earlier in they year if I recall. Its not banned but as people have mentioned they dont seem to show it.
I dont see wy they should ban smoking on courses though. Each to their own.
		
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While I have no issue with people smoking during a round of golf, I must admit I think the pros should be banned from doing so. IMO not the sort of example to be setting for impressionable young minds.


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## SugarPenguin (Mar 17, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			While I have no issue with people smoking during a round of golf, I must admit I think the pros should be banned from doing so. IMO not the sort of example to be setting for impressionable young minds.
		
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True. But Jimenez is Jimenez.
 Do you teens really look up to him though? I thought the youngsters liked Rory and Ricky etc...
To be fair if Rory pulled out a roll up at the masters that would be quite something.


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## Slab (Mar 17, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			While I have no issue with people smoking during a round of golf, I must admit I think the pros should be banned from doing so. IMO not the sort of example to be setting for impressionable young minds.
		
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I think that's taking their (limited) function as role models a little too far and for the most part, those that smoke are probably the least likely examples of players that youngsters will want to emulate, I think they'll more likely look at Rory etc

(although some of the on/off course antics of some players set much poorer examples for these impressionable young minds than lighting up would do)


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## colint (Mar 17, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			Come on Colin, you can't just make up statistics! 

As of 2008, thanks to a very quick google search; 



Surprisingly, fewer than 10 *percent* of lifelong *smokers* will get lung *cancer*. Fewer yet will contract the long list of other *cancers*, such as throat or mouth *cancers*. In the game of risk, you're more likely to have a condom break than to get *cancer* from *smoking*.18 Nov 2008


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Not making anything up, comes from Cancer Research website. One error though, it says cancer or other smoking related illness. Same outcome though

"The fact is that half of all long term smokers eventually die from cancer, or other smoking-related illnesses. And half of those will die in middle age, between 35 and 69."


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## Slab (Mar 17, 2015)

colint said:



			Not making anything up, comes from Cancer Research website. One error though, it says cancer or other smoking related illness. Same outcome though

"The fact is that half of all long term smokers eventually die from cancer, or other smoking-related illnesses. And half of those will die in middle age, between 35 and 69."
		
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To be fair they're not exactly sitting on the fence on this one and will always present a stat in such a way that it endorses their own agenda (however commendable that agenda may be and regardless of the accuracy/other interpretations of the stat)


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## jamielaing (Mar 17, 2015)

Fish said:



			hey up, were sneaking in a few forum distances now in as well 

Click to expand...

20 odd pages and no distances... have to throw it in.


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## Rooter (Mar 17, 2015)

SugarPenguin said:



			True. But Jimenez is Jimenez.
 Do you teens really look up to him though? I thought the youngsters liked Rory and Ricky etc...
To be fair if Rory pulled out a roll up at the masters that would be quite something. 

Click to expand...

My lad was watching the golf last week, bare in mind he is nearly 6. Imagine my surprise when i came it to the living room to see him with a glass of Rioja and a cuban cigar!


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## 6inchcup (Mar 17, 2015)

loads of golfers smoke so do their caddy our Ryder cup capt could do 40 a round and had to hide the fact he smoked when on tv,you often see them puffing away on a gasper,i dont see any harm in it.


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## londonlewis (Mar 17, 2015)

colint said:



			Not making anything up, comes from Cancer Research website. One error though, it says cancer or other smoking related illness. Same outcome though

"The fact is that half of all long term smokers eventually die from cancer, or other smoking-related illnesses. And half of those will die in middle age, between 35 and 69."
		
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Now this I can believe. But the difference in statements is 'half of all smokers' vs 'half of long term smokers', not the same thing.


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## richart (Mar 17, 2015)

Rooter said:



			My lad was watching the golf last week, bare in mind he is nearly 6. Imagine my surprise when i came it to the living room to see him with a glass of Rioja and a cuban cigar!
		
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  At least he didn't have a younger wife.


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## colint (Mar 17, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			Now this I can believe. But the difference in statements is 'half of all smokers' vs 'half of long term smokers', not the same thing.
		
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Splitting hairs in my opinion, who smokes short term ?


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## londonlewis (Mar 17, 2015)

colint said:



			Splitting hairs in my opinion, who smokes short term ?
		
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If you believe that all smokers are long term smokers, your statistic is false. 
50% of people who smoke do not ultimately die of lung cancer or other smoking related illnesses. They never have, never will.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			If you believe that all smokers are long term smokers, your statistic is false. 
50% of people who smoke do not ultimately die of lung cancer or other smoking related illnesses. They never have, never will.
		
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Well it's only a 50/50 chance of lung cancer - well it's all good then 

What's the percentage for a non smoker I wonder.


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## Smiffy (Mar 17, 2015)

I don't smoke because I think it's cool and I certainly don't consider myself a moron. I smoke because, believe it or not, I enjoy it. I love the taste and enjoy trying different tobaccos. 
I have played with the same friends for nigh on 30 years, plenty of them non smokers. None of them have ever commented and I bet if you asked them, they would not be able to tell you how many cigarettes I had smoked during a particular round. They are playing golf with me because believe it or not they enjoy my company. The fact I smoke matters not a jot.


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## richart (Mar 17, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I don't smoke because I think it's cool and I certainly don't consider myself a moron. I smoke because, believe it or not, I enjoy it. I love the taste and enjoy trying different tobaccos. 
I have played with the same friends for nigh on 30 years, plenty of them non smokers. None of them have ever commented and I bet if you asked them, they would not be able to tell you how many cigarettes I had smoked during a particular round. They are playing golf with me because believe it or not they enjoy my company. The fact I smoke matters not a jot.
		
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I thought your mates played with you to supplement their income ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2015)

londonlewis said:



			If you believe that all smokers are long term smokers, your statistic is false. 
50% of people who smoke do not ultimately die of lung cancer or other smoking related illnesses. They never have, never will.
		
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Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in the United States for both men and women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)

Lung cancer is the most preventable form of cancer death in the world. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)

Lung cancer estimates for 2014 (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014):
New cases of lung cancer: 224,210
Males: 116,000 
Females: 108,210
Deaths from lung cancer: 159,260 
Males: 86,930 
Females: 72,330

Women smokers are 25.7 times more likely than women who never smoked to develop lung cancer. For men smokers, itâ€™s 25 times the risk of men who never smoked. (Source: US Surgeon General Report 2014)

Besides lung cancer, tobacco use also increases the risk for cancers of the mouth, lips, nose and sinuses, larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), esophagus (swallowing tube), stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix, colon/rectum, ovary (mucinous), and acute myeloid leukemia. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)

In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths; this equals about 480,000 early deaths each year. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; and US Surgeon General Report 2014)
Tobacco use accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths, causing 87% of lung cancer deaths in men, and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)

Cigarette use has declined dramatically since the release of the first US Surgeon Generalâ€™s Report on Smoking and Health in 1964. Even so, about 20.5% of men and 15.8% of women still smoked cigarettes in 2012, with about 78% of these people smoking daily. (Source: CDC, Current cigarette smoking among adults â€“ United States, 2005â€“2012, 2014)

Cigarette smoking among adults age 18 and older who smoked 30 cigarettes or more a day went down significantly from 2005 to 2012 â€“ from 12.6% to 7.0%. But still, more than 42 million American adults smoke cigarettes. (Source: CDC, Current cigarette smoking among adults â€“ United States, 2005â€“2012, 2014)

 Cigars contain many of the same carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) found in cigarettes. Between 2000 and 2011, sales of small cigars had decreased by 65%, while large cigar sales increased 233%. (Note: the definition of large cigar changed in 2009, so that much smaller cigars are legally defined as â€œlarge cigars.â€) Cigar smoking causes cancers of the lung, mouth, throat, larynx (voice box), esophagus (swallowing tube), and probably the pancreas. (Source: CDC, Consumption of Cigarettes and Combustible Tobacco â€“ United States, 2000â€“2011, 2012; Office of the Inspector General, Dept. of the Treasury Audit Report, December 21, 2011)

Little cigars are about the same size and shape as cigarettes and come in packs of 20, but unlike cigarettes, they can be candy or fruit flavored. In most states, they cost much less than cigarettes, making them far more affordable â€“ especially to youth. A 2012 CDC survey found that more high school boys had smoked cigars (16.7%) than smoked cigarettes (16.3%) in the past 30 days. About 8% of high school girls had smoked a cigar in the past month. (Sources: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; CDC, Tobacco Product Use Among Middle and High School Students â€“ United States, 2011 and 2012, 2013)

Among first-time tobacco users, nearly 2.7 million smoked cigars, while 2.3 million smoked cigarettes (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2013)

In 1997, nearly half (48%) of male high school students and more than one-third (36%) of female students reported using some form of tobacco â€“ cigarettes, cigars, or smokeless tobacco â€“ in the past month. This went down to 23% for male students and 18% for female students in 2012, and included electronic cigarettes, snus (a type of smokeless tobacco), dissolvable tobacco, and other types that werenâ€™t even around in 1997 â€“ along with cigars, cigarettes, and older types of tobacco. (Sources: Cancer Facts & Figures 2010; CDC, Tobacco Product Use Among Middle and High School Students â€“ United States, 2011 and 2012, 2013)

Each year, about 3,400 non-smoking adults die of lung cancer as a result of breathing secondhand smoke. Each year secondhand smoke also causes about 42,000 deaths from heart disease in people who are not current smokers. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)

Among adults age 18 and older, about 20% of men and 3% of women have ever used smokeless tobacco. Nationwide, about 11% of US male high school students and about 2% of female high school students were using chewing tobacco, snuff, or dip in 2012. (Sources: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)

Smokeless tobacco products are a major source of cancer-causing nitrosamines and a known cause of human cancer. They increase the risk of developing cancer of the mouth and throat, esophagus (swallowing tube), and pancreas. Smokeless tobacco kills fewer people than smoking, but using any form of tobacco harms health and can cause death. (Source: Cancer Prevention & Early Detection Facts and Figures 2010)

Between 2009 and 2012 smoking-attributable economic costs were between $289 and $332.5 billion each year in the United States, including $132.5 to 175.9 billion for direct medical care of adults. (Source: US Surgeon General Report 2014)


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## DanFST (Mar 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Copied and pasted stuff
		
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Thats all well and good, but the thread has gone off topic. 

If you're over 6 foot away from a smoker outdoors, there is no trace of the smoke inside you. 

second hand smoke isn't a massive killer. Even in confined indoor spaces. 

As i said before I like the ban in general, but this is just goody goodies slating other peoples lifestyle choices.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 17, 2015)

DanFST said:



			Thats all well and good, but the thread has gone off topic. 

*If you're over 6 foot away from a smoker outdoors, there is no trace of the smoke inside you.*

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I'm guessing you have the scientific facts to back up the statement ?




			second hand smoke isn't a massive killer. Even in confined indoor spaces.
		
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What's you definition of "massive" - one person dying from second hand smoke is one person too many 




			As i said before I like the ban in general, but this is just goody goodies slating other peoples lifestyle choices.
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2015)

Can't really see the point of all these stats. Are we really saying if we play with smokers on a course and get a nostril of second hand smoke we'll at greater risk? Really. I play golf with smokers including many from the forum in the past. So what? I'm there to enjoy the game and the company, not worry about someone elses lifestyle choices. What next, ban alcohol from the 19th because of liver disease and diabetes?


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## Markw (Mar 17, 2015)

What would all the anti smoker here say if they was playing with someone who was continuously using an ecig while playing a round with them?


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## DanFST (Mar 17, 2015)

Markw said:



			What would all the anti smoker here say if they was playing with someone who was continuously using an ecig while playing a round with them?
		
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That you're actions are going to kill them, and a bus full of blind orphan school children.


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## KenL (Mar 17, 2015)

I am wishing I hadn't started this thread, I didn't realise it would cause so much angst.

I was only trying to get across that golf is a sport and a sport is about health and fitness so smoking cigarettes is not in tune with a sport.

I am not some rampant anti-smoker who rants at anyone who smokes on a golf course.  In fact I have never passed comment except to friends when encouraging them to give up out of genuine concern for their health.

Do moderators ever pull the plug on threads, probably time that this bit the dust, no?


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## CheltenhamHacker (Mar 17, 2015)

KenL said:



			I am wishing I hadn't started this thread, I didn't realise it would cause so much angst.

I was only trying to get across that golf is a sport and a sport is about health and fitness so smoking cigarettes is not in tune with a sport.

I am not some rampant anti-smoker who rants at anyone who smokes on a golf course.  In fact I have never passed comment except to friends when encouraging them to give up out of genuine concern for their health.

Do moderators ever pull the plug on threads, probably time that this bit the dust, no?
		
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Someone clearly never saw the HNSP thread!


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## MadAdey (Mar 18, 2015)

How much harm is be really being done to some one stood in a wide open area of fresh air taking in a few very diluted mouthfuls second hand smoke. I personally believe it to be the square route of nothing. 

Has as anyone got any scientific evidence to prove otherwise? Yes there is proof that second hand smoke can cause cancer but that is a study showing the carsonogens of second hand smoke. It doesn't show how much damage is actually being caused by the tiny amounts you would take in during a round of golf, unless you stood right next to someone that is smoking, I can't see it being harmful at all.

Do the same people that speak of this second hand smoke lead a perfectly healthy life? I'm sure the burger and chips and the couple of pints used to wash it down in the clubhouse is causing far more damage to their health. Maybe the bottle or 2 of wine at the weekend and the cheeseboard after dinner, the curry and 10 pints of Stella on a Saturday night might be causing more damage too......


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## Robobum (Mar 18, 2015)

Seems that choice is a one way street with this.

If you choose to smoke - live & let live.

If you choose to not breath in 2nd hand smoke - tough, it's only a little bit of smoke in a wide open space.

I've never met a considerate smoker, it's just the way it is. The onus is on me to keep out of the smoke trail and I'm fine with that because breathing in the smoke, regardless of how small the amount, repulses me.

Having to get a fag but off my line is disgusting and reinforces my thoughts about smokers.

That doesn't mean they're not nice people, just not considerate of others when smoking.


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## londonlewis (Mar 18, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well it's only a 50/50 chance of lung cancer - well it's all good then 

What's the percentage for a non smoker I wonder.
		
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*It is estimated that 10 million people in the UK smoke. *
http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_93.pdf

*43,500 people contract lung cancer in 2011 *
http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/can...cerstats-key-facts-on-lung-cancer-and-smoking

If everyone who gets lung cancer is a smoker (which we know is not correct) 0.43% of smokers will contract lung cancer each year. 

Let's assume that every smoker starts smoking at 16 and dies at 76 (60 years of smoking) the percentage of the initial 10 million that will contract lung cancer will be 25.8%. But this is taking into account the most extreme version of these facts. So the true amount of going to be less. 


I am confident that there will be many other factors which cause people to get cancer, including lung cancer but scientists haven't had to prove it yet. 

*Examples:*
Diesel cars. Initially people were told that diesel was a cleaner fuel to use in cars, that it didn't pollute as much, that it wasn't as bad for your health. We are now being told the complete opposite. They got it wrong, they are bad for the environment and terrible for your health. 

Sugar. We were initially told that people were obese because they ate too many trans fats etc... and that sugar was not a problem. Sugar is now enemy number one. (I am not claiming sugar is going to cause cancer, I am purely providing an example of something we were never told was a serious health issue). 

I'll think of more if I need to.


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## JamesR (Mar 18, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Seems that choice is a one way street with this.

If you choose to smoke - live & let live.

If you choose to not breath in 2nd hand smoke - tough, it's only a little bit of smoke in a wide open space.

I've never met a considerate smoker, it's just the way it is. The onus is on me to keep out of the smoke trail and I'm fine with that because breathing in the smoke, regardless of how small the amount, repulses me.

Having to get a fag but off my line is disgusting and reinforces my thoughts about smokers.

That doesn't mean they're not nice people, just not considerate of others when smoking.
		
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Sums it up pretty well.


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