# Getting to an "Inside to Out" swing path



## Yosser (Jan 18, 2015)

I've always been inconsistent with my driver but since I gave up trying to fix it and concentrate on practicing with the rest of my set I've been reasonably happy with my ball striking. The effectiveness of my 5 wood and more recently my 3 wood have made my driver redundant both in terms of distance and consistency. I still have bouts of inconsistency whereby I tense up, get too steep, lose my timing then top or fat the ball. I accept those periods as part of the sport.

Anyway after carrying the driver in my bag for over a year without using it, I decided to get fitted, it turned out to be the wrong club for me. Its replacement is great, the ball comes out of the middle of the bat BUT straight left by about 10 degrees, a very destructive shot and obviously a closed face at impact. I thought it was either my grip or alignment but my Pro said in an instant that it was the swing path. I was a little surprised as I've been hitting the 5 wood out of the middle and straight, although my miss with that club has been a hook/slice and the odd straight left has been creeping into iron play, so he must be correct.

The fault seems to be caused in part by my setup, whereby I deliberately only take my left arm back to parallel with the ground. I then point the butt of the club at the ball to set the club on plane. It turns out that I'm not setting it steep enough and I end up swinging more around the body resulting in a casting out-to-in path.

This was a lightbulb moment for me and once this was pointed out I started working on rewiring my brain for the new path and a draw shot shape. After a few shanks I have now got the draw going with a 7 iron using a couple of techniques. Firstly I tried dropping the hands more inside, it works to a point but feels like eventually I'll end up trapping the ball into a duck hook - possibly hands too far foward? Secondly I tried to push my straight left arm further back around my body so in theory the hands start more inside. This seems to work, feels more natural and I can hit a draw shape but I cannot replicate this with the longer clubs. I have actually started to fade the driver and I feel less trapped with it but obviously its still an out to in path. So in summary, I would like to ask the experts:-

1. Given that I am capable of hitting all my clubs upto a 5 wood straight could it be that this swing path fault only affects the longer clubs or is it that the fault is always there but the other clubs are more forgiving?

2. At setup when I get my left arm back to horizontal and set the club plane, how steep should it be? Should it be vertical? Should it be a different angle for each club given that you stand closer to the ball for shorter clubs. My Pro said feel for the lightest weight which makes sense but difficult to feel/visualise.

3. To get In-to-out am I taking the correct approach to start the backswing with my arms pushed further back or should I be dropping the hands more inside.


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## bobmac (Jan 19, 2015)

What drills did your pro give you to help with your swing path?


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## Yosser (Jan 19, 2015)

Half swings 7 iron, setting the club steeper at the half way point. Then aiming the club path slightly right at impact and hitting half shots with a view to getting that draw shape going. We've also put a second ball after the target ball on the inside as a path check.

It feels really odd because it seems like my hands are leading the club even more - is that correct, it feels like eventually I'll be trapping the ball into a duck hook? Also I'm a little confused about how steep to set the other clubs in the bag. Obviously I'm trying to replicate the drills to full shots which has started to happen with the 7i but not the woods.


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## bobmac (Jan 19, 2015)

It turns out that I'm not setting it steep enough and I end up swinging more around the body *resulting in a casting out-to-in path.*

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Let me start by saying that a flat backswing does not cause an out-to-in path, its the loop in the transition that causes it.
If you swing more upright and still loop in the transition, that will make things worse. 
Of course it all depends on how flat you are.
Keep working on the drills your pro has given you and just be careful you dont loop at the top
As to the duck hook.........
That is normally caused by the body not turning and the hands flipping passed you.


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## Yosser (Jan 19, 2015)

bobmac said:



			[/B]

Let me start by saying that a flat backswing does not cause an out-to-in path, its the loop in the transition that causes it.
If you swing more upright and still loop in the transition, that will make things worse. 
Of course it all depends on how flat you are.
Keep working on the drills your pro has given you and just be careful you dont loop at the top
As to the duck hook.........
That is normally caused by the body not turning and the hands flipping passed you.
		
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Thank you for your time Bob.

I played today with a scrambled head and hit some terrible shots, mainly massive slices with every club and the divots marks pointing left at an alarming angle. In the end I just cleared my mind and went back to my basic setup on the grounds that it can't be that bad as I am capable of hitting good shots. I added the "aim right" idea, and started to practice the feel, trusted my swing and hit two good draws with a 4h then a 5w followed by a straight / slight fade 5w. All sounding good and pretty much coming out of the middle. The next hole required the driver, I only use it four times on that course and I had already topped one, duck hooked one and hit the other straight left. Anyway at setup with the driver, I felt really cramped practicing the aimimg right path and to my surprise it only felt comfortable after moving my stance slightly further from the ball - it felt like I had more room on the inside. I hit a nice strike with a gentle draw starting slightly right and finished slightly left of centre 208 yards - a monster for me.

I have a theory about this tweak in that with the driver, I tend to line the ball up towards the heel of the club as I felt like I was stretching when the ball was in the centre and this was causing a slice. I think now that I was stretching because of the swing path.

I went back to the Pro to clarify a few things as there is no point in me doing drills incorrectly for the next few weeks due to not understanding. It seems the focus should be very much on dropping the hands inside rather than changing the arm postion. The main thing for me is to get the feel right which will obviously take time and practice before it will become repeatable.


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## Jack_bfc (Jan 19, 2015)

Wow..

Sounds like a lot of thinking going on......

I'm not sure what most if it even means.. 

Good luck with all that... It makes me scared to have lessons...


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## Smiffy (Jan 20, 2015)

Yosser said:



			I played today with a scrambled head and hit some terrible shots, mainly massive slices with every club and the divots marks pointing left at an alarming angle.
		
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That sounds like my "game"


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## bobmac (Jan 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			That sounds like my "game"


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Nah, you're not that good.

:rofl:


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## Smiffy (Jan 20, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Nah, you're not that good.

:rofl:
		
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My "loop" is a thing of beauty


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## bobmac (Jan 20, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			My "loop" is a thing of beauty
		
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To the untrained eye


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## Yosser (Jan 20, 2015)

Drills going quite well, actually switched to a 9i after talking to the Pro, seems easier to see the shot shape. Hit alot of half shots with the 9i and have a consistent draw shape going, a few hits behind the ball and a few shanks but overall the good hit percentage is high. Drills now feel reasonably comfortable and the club set position with the 9i seems to make more sense when seeing it in the range mirror.

After the drills I tried a few full shots with the longer clubs and there were a few good draw shaped shots but also some over draws/hooks, slices and blocks so the consistency isn't quite there. Although most of these misses didn't actually look like they'd be that destructive on the course. I'll never hit every shot perfectly anyway. 

After that I hit some really nice shots on the course, especially mid irons which felt so easy to swing and not too bad with the few drives I hit. The last three holes I completely lost timing and rythm but to be honest I think I was knackered by then.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 20, 2015)

From my experience (for what it's worth) there are three things you should focus on.

1) Keep your head behind the ball until the ball has gone.

2) In the backswing allow your right arm to make a wide arc away from your body, don't keep it hugged into your side.

3) In the downswing drop your right elbow in front of your right hip with your hands trailing behind, just like you would if throwing a golf ball underarm.

These things will prevent you pulling the ball, will encourage the club to approach from the inside and assist you to create more power in the shot.


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## Yosser (Jan 21, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			From my experience (for what it's worth) there are three things you should focus on.

1) Keep your head behind the ball until the ball has gone.

2) In the backswing allow your right arm to make a wide arc away from your body, don't keep it hugged into your side.

3) In the downswing drop your right elbow in front of your right hip with your hands trailing behind, just like you would if throwing a golf ball underarm.

These things will prevent you pulling the ball, will encourage the club to approach from the inside and assist you to create more power in the shot.
		
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1) I think generally my head is relatively still in the swing and has not been a major issue.

2) I have had problems with wideness and have to make a conscious effort to extend the arms in the practice swing. Many of my driver miss hits are related to being too steep especially when I'm not relaxed or tense up.

3) Is interesting....I guess that if the right elbow is not tucked in, it could result in looping/casting out when bringing the arms through on the downswing. I will bear that in mind during today's drill session. Thanks.


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## SocketRocket (Jan 21, 2015)

Yosser said:



			1) I think generally my head is relatively still in the swing and has not been a major issue.

2) I have had problems with wideness and have to make a conscious effort to extend the arms in the practice swing. Many of my driver miss hits are related to being too steep especially when I'm not relaxed or tense up.

3) Is interesting....I guess that if the right elbow is not tucked in, it could result in looping/casting out when bringing the arms through on the downswing. I will bear that in mind during today's drill session. Thanks.
		
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Make sure your head is behind the ball as well as still, also keep some secondary spine tilt this will help shallow the swing.

Dropping the right elbow INFRONT of your right hip will shallow out the shaft in the downswing and get you swinging more from the inside.


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## Yosser (Jan 21, 2015)

SocketRocket said:



			Make sure your head is behind the ball as well as still, also keep some secondary spine tilt this will help shallow the swing.

Dropping the right elbow INFRONT of your right hip will shallow out the shaft in the downswing and get you swinging more from the inside.
		
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OK, I know what your saying but isn't it a given to have your head behind the ball with the longer clubs and the ball forward in the stance?

So back to the drills today and I must admit that the hitting lots of 9i half shots eventually becomes tedious as the draw shape is repeatable. The full 9i shot is getting there and keeping an eye on that right elbow definetely helps, it "feels" more of a drop inside. The woods are still not easy to shape right to left and there are still a few fades or blocks in there. However I need to be careful here and only judge the good swings and write off the one's where I've forgotten to swing correctly due to doing too much thinking. This is particulary important with the driver which needs you to commit to the stroke, that club is actually going ok now when I apply the tweaks, remember to swing properly and commit.

Tell you what, my left knee is sore and oddly my right bicep just above the elbow - never felt that before?


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## Yosser (Jan 23, 2015)

After yet another bucket of balls with half swing drills, I thought I'd video some full swings and was shocked to see the backswing (My practice swing is perfect!!):-

[video=youtube;69_Os1OHBrw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69_Os1OHBrw[/video]

The backswing is very narrow, around the body and inside. I guesss this encourages the outside to in downswing. With hindsight I don't think the right elbow idea is helping.


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## Yosser (Jan 23, 2015)

Went back today and concentrated on making the takeaway more outside and  wider. Early results below with a 7i, obviously much more work to do. 

[video=youtube;Ssn237u0_ng]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssn237u0_ng[/video]


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## Yosser (Jan 23, 2015)

The last video is a final thrash with  the driver, which went slight left of centre. I don't think the camera  was aligned correctly for down the line.

 [video=youtube;yYjp6QkemeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYjp6QkemeM[/video]


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## the_coach (Jan 23, 2015)

if your arms are a little ways disconnected from the chest rotation/shoulder turn from the get-go it tends to lead to the upper body not really making a full turn which then really narrows down the backswing to the top. 

often times the 'chest/shoulder turn' then stalls, which can also lead to a little ways standing up out of posture to the top & also with the arms trying to carry on  - but as the body has stopped it kinda gets in the way so the arms then collapse inwards the hands getting a ways too near the head so the swing is then even narrower with a collapse at the top.

reaction mostly to this is then to kinda throw the hands away, so the downswing is then outwards first from the top & once it gets 'out over the plane' gravity makes sure the only ways then is to have the club come down steep swinging leftfield through impact.

to help stop the out to in downswing path the swing will need to have a little more natural width going back from the ball to the top - so a feeling of the chest turning way with the upper left arm staying lightly connected to the chest wall & feeling that the hands at the top are further away from the head so the angle at the right elbow doesn't narrow down past 90Âº.

the downswing then starts from the leftside, ground up, while feeling that the hands/arm/club & right shoulders first move is downwards towards the ground, not outwards towards the ball.

drill here hopefully may help get a little ways more natural width through the backswing & retain it at the top.

[video=youtube_share;01BuVvAwfzo]http://youtu.be/01BuVvAwfzo[/video]


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## the_coach (Jan 23, 2015)

[video=youtube_share;5u6ghVbgJO8]http://youtu.be/5u6ghVbgJO8[/video]


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## Yosser (Jan 23, 2015)

the_coach said:



			[video=youtube_share;01BuVvAwfzo]http://youtu.be/01BuVvAwfzo[/video]
		
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Thank you, alot to take in there but that video sums up many of my problems with narrowness. Its a shame I didn't post some of my practice swings because they are perfect, I don't translate it to my actual swing unfortunately.


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## Yosser (Jan 23, 2015)

the_coach said:



			[video=youtube_share;5u6ghVbgJO8]http://youtu.be/5u6ghVbgJO8[/video]
		
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That video reminds me of my Pro, we've worked alot on not overswinging, I used to be mad for it! Hopefully that is not my biggest issue, lets face it there are alot of things to go wrong.


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