# What a modern laptop should do



## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

There have been a number of recent threads about new laptops and what to buy, so I thought I would show you what is possible with a top spec windows laptop

Here is a short video of a laptop i've just set up for a customer

Intel I7 CPU, 8Gb RAM, 250Gb SSD Hard Drive, Windows 10, Dell Inspiron 15 5000  Â£579 plus Â£93 for the SSD drive.

Time from pressing the button to Desktop, then to the BBC webpage appearing is a mindnumbing 13 seconds

Enjoy


[video=youtube_share;rlVMROn79vs]https://youtu.be/rlVMROn79vs[/video]


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## Lump (Sep 5, 2015)

Is that down to windows 10 or more to the SSD?
My Mac is quick, but that proper wow!


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

Its mostly the SSD, although Windows 10 is no slouch

I really dont see why SSD hard drives are not standard in most mid/ high level laptops, OK it might add Â£45 to the price, (on the basis that a standard 1TB Hdd is about Â£45), but the performance boost and the power savings are well worth it

maybe they are waiting for the price of a 500Gb SSD to drop further as the 250 Gb one I have is really only for those without loads of data


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## sev112 (Sep 5, 2015)

Phil
I am in the market for a desktop with similar specs - should I expect to pay similar or less for a desktop and cud?
Thanks


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

sev112 said:



			Phil
I am in the market for a desktop with similar specs - should I expect to pay similar or less for a desktop and cud?
Thanks
		
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What's a cud? 
Generally there won't be much in the price, between similar spec laptops and desktops , but you will always get better performance from a desktop as the extra ventilation allows the full power of the CPU to be active, mobile CPUs are turned down a bit to produce less heat or they would fry.

What this means in practice is that if you buy a desktop with an I5 CPU and put in a SSD then you are getting I7plus performance.

If anyone wants details of how to put in a SSD , feel free to PM me


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## sev112 (Sep 5, 2015)

Thanks Phil
My spell checker is a bit odd
I meant VDU


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

sev112 said:



			Thanks Phil
My spell checker is a bit odd
I meant VDU
		
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We call them screens or monitors


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## Robster59 (Sep 5, 2015)

I've got to say, that is impressive.  I know that Windows 10 is pretty good at booting up but when I think of the old boot times, or the archaically slow boot up time of my work laptop, I am incredibly jealous.


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## CliveW (Sep 5, 2015)

What is the point if you don't have decent broadband speeds?


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## chrisd (Sep 5, 2015)

Can't work it out Phil - did you make it quicker or more like your golf swing?


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

Robster59 said:



			I've got to say, that is impressive.  I know that Windows 10 is pretty good at booting up but when I think of the old boot times, or the archaically slow boot up time of my work laptop, I am incredibly jealous.
		
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Putting it in perspective , I have just timed my 2 1/2 year old desktop which has an I7 3rd generation CPU ( laptop is 5th generation) 8 GB Ram 120gb SSD hdd and windows 10

That boots to the web in 28 seconds

Liking windows 10 with classic shell installed very much indeed


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## drdel (Sep 5, 2015)

Surely buying a laptop has now't to do with what a machine 'can do'   -that's just how much cash you want to spend which is like kids arguing in the playground, saying mines bigger than yours - so what?

Its simply deciding what you need it to do; home 'office' and emails etc. wont need the expensive video graphics that a CAD?CAM, video manipulation or games player would find essential. Then again portability /weight might be a major criteria if you're frequently on aircraft.


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

drdel said:



			Surely buying a laptop has now't to do with what a machine 'can do'   -that's just how much cash you want to spend which is like kids arguing in the playground, saying mines bigger than yours - so what?

Its simply deciding what you need it to do; home 'office' and emails etc. wont need the expensive video graphics that a CAD?CAM, video manipulation or games player would find essential. Then again portability /weight might be a major criteria if you're frequently on aircraft.
		
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Cheaper than a mac


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## Duckster (Sep 5, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Putting it in perspective , I have just timed my 2 1/2 year old desktop which has an I7 3rd generation CPU ( laptop is 5th generation) 8 GB Ram 120gb SSD hdd and windows 10

That boots to the web in 28 seconds

Liking windows 10 with classic shell installed very much indeed 

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It's pretty similar times on a normal HDD, not just the SSD.

Actually already testing it into work, but I'll take at least 3 or 4 years before it rolls in.


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## Stuart_C (Sep 5, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Cheaper than a mac 

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But it's not a Mac :whoo:


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

Duckster said:



			It's pretty similar times on a normal HDD, not just the SSD.

Actually already testing it into work, but I'll take at least 3 or 4 years before it rolls in.
		
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Had a customer yesterday with a 1 year old Dell I5 CPU .4 GB ram desktop who had installed Windows 10 on a standard SATA hard drive.

Still took the best part of a minute to load and while better in normal use than W7 was still well sluggish compared to a machine with SSD


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## Imurg (Sep 5, 2015)

So what are you going to do with the 15 seconds you save every time you turn it on....?

Just askin'....


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## Duckster (Sep 5, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Had a customer yesterday with a 1 year old Dell I5 CPU .4 GB ram desktop who had installed Windows 10 on a standard SATA hard drive.

Still took the best part of a minute to load and while better in normal use than W7 was still well sluggish compared to a machine with SSD
		
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We did a few time tests and it came up similar time but it doesn't help when you using the worlds largest AD domain


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

Imurg said:



			So what are you going to do with the 15 seconds you save every time you turn it on....?

Just askin'....
		
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30 seconds and if you currently have an older PC  it's much more, 
It's not just boot times, everything is quicker. 

But as a techie I'm not that interested in how "fast" the PC is I. Terms of how quickly does word open, 
I'm more interested in the usable longevity of the machine, before it gets overtaken by the ever increasing software.
I've just seen the lifespan of a decent laptop increase by 2 years


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## Imurg (Sep 5, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			30 seconds and if you currently have an older PC  it's much more, 
It's not just boot times, everything is quicker. 

But as a techie I'm not that interested in how "fast" the PC is I. Terms of how quickly does word open, 
I'm more interested in the usable longevity of the machine, before it gets overtaken by the ever increasing software.
I've just seen the lifespan of a decent laptop increase by 2 years
		
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Unless its in the hands of a spotty teenage yoof...


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 5, 2015)

Us geeks cannot be held responsible for the actions of "normal" peeps

A standard teenager with scant regard for security protocols will soon have problems, but old pharts who keep to the rules will be fine n dandy


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 6, 2015)

My laptop takes about 2-3 minutes to be in a state to be used after turning on. I'm going to bookmark this for the next time it needs replacing. Sounds great to me.


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## fundy (Sep 6, 2015)

how old a laptop would be rejuvenated by switching the HDD out for a SSD Phil? Will it improve pretty much all or only going back so far? or only certain processors?

My Dell is starting to suffer quite badly (its a 1720 inspiron, 2Gb ram, Dual Core T7250 processor running Vista). Any gain for switching hardware or better off just replacing it as planned?


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 6, 2015)

fundy said:



			how old a laptop would be rejuvenated by switching the HDD out for a SSD Phil? Will it improve pretty much all or only going back so far? or only certain processors?

My Dell is starting to suffer quite badly (its a 1720 inspiron, 2Gb ram, Dual Core T7250 processor running Vista). Any gain for switching hardware or better off just replacing it as planned?
		
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Good question and it will vary for each machine

Your main problem is the CPU and also Vista will be using up most of your RAM, these will not change if you put in a SSD and these are your pressure points.
so I would say that you will see some benefit, but that it wont be anywhere near as much as you would get with a much newer machine where the pressure point is the SATA hard drive itself.

If it was me, I wouldnt bother,
 Do you qualify for the upgrade to W 10? that might be a better option


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## davidy233 (Sep 6, 2015)

Impressive Phil - my three year old Macbook air with SSD drive is never switched off - Open the lid and it wakes up - couple of seconds to connect to wifi - welcome to my world - not sure I'd buy a laptop without an SSD drive now


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## fundy (Sep 6, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Good question and it will vary for each machine

Your main problem is the CPU and also Vista will be using up most of your RAM, these will not change if you put in a SSD and these are your pressure points.
so I would say that you will see some benefit, but that it wont be anywhere near as much as you would get with a much newer machine where the pressure point is the SATA hard drive itself.

If it was me, I wouldnt bother,
 Do you qualify for the upgrade to W 10? that might be a better option
		
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No, my main pc has had a W10 upgrade but doesnt seem to be one on offer for the laptop sadly. 

Current plan is to try and get a MS Surface 3 to replace, Im assuming that has a SSD because of the size of the drives on offer. Was hoping prices may drop a little. Any thoughts on them?


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## fundy (Sep 6, 2015)

OK secondary question Phil, main machine is an i7 860 processor, 8gb ram, W10. It powers 3 24" displays off 2 graphics cards (which I think are starting to suffer). It has 2 500GB HDDs which actually dont store anything (any storage is on the laptop and an external drive), just run in parallel I believe. 

Am I right in assuming a SSD and 2 new graphics cards would make a decent improvement?


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 6, 2015)

fundy said:



			No, my main pc has had a W10 upgrade but doesnt seem to be one on offer for the laptop sadly. 

Current plan is to try and get a MS Surface 3 to replace, Im assuming that has a SSD because of the size of the drives on offer. Was hoping prices may drop a little. Any thoughts on them?
		
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You will certainly find a SSD in the Surface 3 PRO version, but NOT in the normal Surface 3. the Pro also uses Intel I3/5/7 Cpu's while the normal used a souped up Atom CPU
But there is a big price difference between the 2


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 6, 2015)

fundy said:



			OK secondary question Phil, main machine is an i7 860 processor, 8gb ram, W10. It powers 3 24" displays off 2 graphics cards (which I think are starting to suffer). It has 2 500GB HDDs which actually dont store anything (any storage is on the laptop and an external drive), just run in parallel I believe. 

Am I right in assuming a SSD and 2 new graphics cards would make a decent improvement?
		
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You will certainly see some  improvement there Steve, although your CPU is a first generation (we are now on 5th generation) it still has plenty of oomph.
My only concern is that the system itself must be at least 6 years old and I would baulk at spending possibly Â£300 on upgrading it (SSD plus 2 x Graphics PLUS possibly a new power supply if the new graphics cards need a dedicated power source.)


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## fundy (Sep 6, 2015)

Cheers Phil thanks, its still running well enough for trading so will leave as is for now. As for the laptop, seems I need to find a few more pennies lol


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## Midnight (Sep 6, 2015)

Think my computer  is ducked. It takes about 5 mins on a good day to actually  get past the start  up screen.  Once it has eventually  done that it takes another  10 -20 to actually get the Internet working. By then i have forgotten what i needed to look at.


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 6, 2015)

Midnight said:



			Think my computer  is ducked. It takes about 5 mins on a good day to actually  get past the start  up screen.  Once it has eventually  done that it takes another  10 -20 to actually get the Internet working. By then i have forgotten what i needed to look at.
		
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I would agree with your diagnosis , how old is it?  if its 5 years + then dont waste your time, just back up your data and buy a new one.
happy to help with recommendations


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## Midnight (Sep 6, 2015)

PhilTheFragger said:



			I would agree with your diagnosis , how old is it?  if its 5 years + then dont waste your time, just back up your data and buy a new one.
happy to help with recommendations 

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Mate, i will take you up on that offer when the boss tells me that we have enough money put aside to get a new one.


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## JustOne (Sep 6, 2015)

Phil, my son has upgraded his desktop to Win10 and that 'windows button' on the keyboard now does NOTHING, it used to bring up all the apps etc as it 'switched modes'... is that supposed to not work anymore?

thanks in adv....


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 6, 2015)

JustOne said:



			Phil, my son has upgraded his desktop to Win10 and that 'windows button' on the keyboard now does NOTHING, it used to bring up all the apps etc as it 'switched modes'... is that supposed to not work anymore?

thanks in adv....
		
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James

Go here http://www.fosshub.com/Classic-Shell.html/ClassicShellSetup_4_2_4.exe

Download classic shell and all will be well again

it gives you back the old fashioned start button as in xp, vista, 7 etc without any of the app tiles that 10 has in tow


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## 6inchcup (Sep 6, 2015)

what i dont understand is why you got one of the extras from DOWNTON ABBEY to do the narration !!


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 6, 2015)

6inchcup said:



			what i dont understand is why you got one of the extras from DOWNTON ABBEY to do the narration !!

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You can go off some people   

Was there insufficient gravitas?


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## Val (Sep 6, 2015)

davidy233 said:



			Impressive Phil - my three year old Macbook air with SSD drive is never switched off - Open the lid and it wakes up - couple of seconds to connect to wifi - welcome to my world - not sure I'd buy a laptop without an SSD drive now
		
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Likewise all be it mines is a year old, if I'm honest i don't think i'll switch from mac now


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## bobmac (Sep 7, 2015)

I didn't know you could simply turn on the computer and it would automatically log on to your home page as well.
Is that difficult to set up please?
Thanks


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 7, 2015)

Err it doesn't Bob
The video shows it booting to the desktop and I quickly select Firefox from the icon in the taskbar, which opens the web page.

However it can be setup to do this


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## bobmac (Sep 7, 2015)

Ah, sneaky


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## Khamelion (Sep 7, 2015)

I was at my mates the other night and he has two identically home built PCs, the exception is that one has an SSD the other is a Raptor hard drive, pressing power at the same time the SSD was up in seconds and ready to go, while the hard drive one hadn't got past the mobo post screen.


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## Baldy Bouncer (Sep 7, 2015)

Has anyone on the Web found a PROPER solution to the error message "C1900101-20017" that stops the installation of Windows 10 upgrade from 8.1 yet?:sbox:


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## drdel (Sep 7, 2015)

Your PC or laptop technology may not be the most important issue. 

Since Microsoft is slowly changing its business model to one where the programs will be 'Cloud' hosted and you'll pay for access. The potential bottle-neck in performance will be in the comms arena in the UK where a large part of the population will still be on copper wired networks.


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## sev112 (Sep 8, 2015)

drdel said:



			Your PC or laptop technology may not be the most important issue. 

Since Microsoft is slowly changing its business model to one where the programs will be 'Cloud' hosted and you'll pay for access. The potential bottle-neck in performance will be in the comms arena in the UK where a large part of the population will still be on copper wired networks.
		
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Oh to be on copper.
Here in the so called Silicon Thames Valley we're still on Morse Code


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