# Andy Murray Retiring Soon



## ger147 (Jan 11, 2019)

It looks like Andy Murray's hip surgery has been unsuccessful and he will be forced to retire soon. He is hoping to make it to Wimbledon but this year's Australian Open could be it for Andy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/46833018


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## Hobbit (Jan 11, 2019)

I read that and was hugely saddened. I do wonder if his end of season push for world number one a few years ago broke him. He played through the pain then but was never the same player afterwards.


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## pokerjoke (Jan 11, 2019)

Great player in a tough era.
Sad but he has a hellava lot of life ahead to enjoy.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 11, 2019)

I heard this on BBC news this morning. A very sad end to someone that has worked so hard and to achieve his Wimbledon dream. A multiple grand slam winner and someone that took over the mantle from Henman and raised British male tennis to a new height. I hope he can have a decent run in Australia as a final hurrah but it does sound like his injury may not allow that


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## User62651 (Jan 11, 2019)

Used to be a bit marmite in his moody anti-media early years but over last few years has been something of a UK statesman since winning Olympics in London 2012 I think.
Knew this was coming, he could get hip joint skimmed but to get to the level he needs to be competitive where being just 1 or 2% off peak fitness is critical and given his age, has accepted it's over, not an easy thing to do.
3 slams, 2 olympic titles and a Davis Cup win is a decent haul, lost a lot of slam finals too but just getting to a slam final is quite something really.

Shame he hasn't really brought UK players on, Edmund seems half decent if a bit of a journeyman.


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## Hacker Khan (Jan 11, 2019)

Absolute legend in my opinion.  I grew up knowing that our tennis players would eventually lose and getting excited if they reached a semi final.  He changed that and won things.  He is a great advocate for equality, has a great dry sense of humour plus he enraged the little Englanders with the football comment that was a joke, but certain people got all in a tiz about.  Which endeared him to me even more.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2019)

First Brit to win Wimbledon in shorts will always be his legacy.
Tough competitor with a good sense of humour and a warm heart.

I have a feeling that we will hear a lot more from him in whatever he choses to do next.


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## adam6177 (Jan 11, 2019)

I mentioned the news this morning in the office..... there really is a lot of hatred for him.


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## Wolf (Jan 11, 2019)

Literally just read this article on a other news site, quite a sad way for it all to end. Since the 2012 Olympics I think we all took him to heart and he has earned a great deal of respect from everyone. 

A real shame but hopefully he can go out on his terms and make something new just as successful.


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## Robster59 (Jan 11, 2019)

A great tennis player who I think because of his perceived outward demeanour a number of people can't take to.  A shame really as if you look at his achievements, actually listen to what he's saying in his natural deadpan way and see what he's done in the background then I think post retirement his stock will rise quite considerably.  He continued to give it all for the Davis Cup team when he could when other players of equal standing didn't play in it and was vocal in his support for equality in the sport.  
I have a feeling we will see a lot of him both on the TV and trying to promote British tennis in the future.


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## DRW (Jan 11, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Great player in a tough era.
Sad but he has a hellava lot of life ahead to enjoy.
		
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Completely agree. Done amazing in such a period.

Hope he has success going forward.


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## hors limite (Jan 11, 2019)

Outstanding player and the best by a mile that the UK has ever produced and I am sorry that his injury hasn't mended.. However, I think that it's a great shame that he has given advanced indeterminate notice of his retirement. It is simply unfair to his future opponents.


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## rudebhoy (Jan 11, 2019)

Greatest ever Scottish sportsman. 3 slams and an Olympic gold in the same era as Federer, Nadal and Djokovic is a tremendous record, not to mention winning the Davis Cup single-handedly.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 11, 2019)

I've never been his biggest fan in regards to the tennis he played, always preferred watching the big three and then some of the more flamboyant players.

That said, i think he's a genuine guy, always seems a laugh on tv shows which is a different demeanour to what i'd expect. Also saw a quality tweet this week where he was offering a fan free tickets.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 11, 2019)

hors limite said:



			Outstanding player and the best by a mile that the UK has ever produced and I am sorry that his injury hasn't mended.. However, I think that it's a great shame that he has given advanced indeterminate notice of his retirement. It is simply unfair to his future opponents.
		
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Don't disagree but it also gives his fans a chance to say goodbye.


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## PieMan (Jan 11, 2019)

A true icon of British sport IMHO not just tennis.

Whilst his game was never as easy on the eye as the GOAT in Federer (let's face it that applies to every player in the game!) what he has achieved in this era of tennis is outstanding and I think he fully deserved to be ranked up there alongside Nadal and Djokovich as the three players who were able to compete against, match - and beat - the best the game has ever seen (I still put Federer in a class above the other 3).

Just a real shame that he got to the very top of the game by moving to Spain and away from the LTA/BTA programmes. Hopefully though he'll be able to give a lot more back to British tennis in the long run.

I truly hope he does make it to Wimbledon - as the only British male to win the men's singles title in the open era he deserves to bow out at his home tournament and on the greatest stage of them all in centre court. Will be an unbelievable reception for him if he does.

Thank you for some amazing memories Sir Andrew Barron Murray OBE.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 11, 2019)

One of the UKs greatest sportsman- just brilliant , gave a lot of joy to people , I liked his personality- to achieve what he did in imo the greatest era in the sport is something he should be rightly proud off.


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## fundy (Jan 11, 2019)

well thats the lifetime achievement award for SPOTY sorted nice and early in the year


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## Orikoru (Jan 11, 2019)

Retiring at 31 while Federer is still smashing it at the age of 45. 

Does this mean he can back to being Scottish again?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 11, 2019)

I'm glad he is retiring, had a brilliant career winning 3(?) slams and Olympic gold. Plenty of money in the bank so ride off into the sunset and enjoy life before he does himself any lasting damage.

Adios Andy and thanks for the memories


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## Wolf (Jan 11, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Retiring at 31 while Federer is still smashing it at the age of 45.

Does this mean he can back to being Scottish again?
		
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Federer 45 ðŸ˜‚

More like 37 years old and still exceptional at a level where others wish they played the game so easily


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## Pin-seeker (Jan 11, 2019)

Bless him ðŸ˜¢ðŸ˜¢
ðŸ™„


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## AmandaJR (Jan 11, 2019)

Really sad for him. Amazing guts and feel he made the best of what he was given. Sometimes let his shoulders drop in the early days but found some real guts and worked so hard for what he achieved - perhaps his body just couldn't deal with that amount of work. I think the country owes him hugely for giving us some hope and joy in the sport of tennis again. Then his commitment to The Davis Cup - we won the Davis Cup - still sounds surreal! 

Thanks Andy.


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## Golfmmad (Jan 11, 2019)

What else can I say, other than agree with all the positive comments already said.

It just goes to show what incredible athletes Federer (especially), Djockovich and Nadal are, being able and fit enough to play at the top level for such a long time.

Will be interesting to see what Andy does after hopefully signing off with a great performance at Wimbledon.


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## Slime (Jan 11, 2019)

I have nothing but the utmost respect for him and all he has achieved and his press conference this morning just shows the passion he has for his sport.
He's an absolute lionheart.
The times I've seen him playing for 3 or 4 hours in ridiculous heat to an unbelievable standard only to see him repeat it the following day ................................ and footballers get tired playing twice a week!!
He will be sorely missed in Slime's house.
He's done more for British tennis than anyone could have dreamed of.

Cheers Andy, and all the best for whatever the future holds for you.


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## JamesR (Jan 11, 2019)

He is so good that, had he not come up against 3 of the greatest sportsmen of all time (not just top tennis players) his ability would be lauded far more.
Serve like Sampras, return better than Agassi and volley like Becker. 
Great player surely to be missed.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

Britain's greatest ever athlete.

That is all.

Proud of everything he has achieved, his honesty, his dedication, his stance on the inequalities within tennis prize money. An absolute gentleman and a star.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



*Britain's greatest ever athlete.*

That is all.

Proud of everything he has achieved, his honesty, his dedication, his stance on the inequalities within tennis prize money. An absolute gentleman and a star.
		
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That's a BIG call! 

Agree with the rest of it though.



JamesR said:



			He is so good that, had he not come up against 3 of the greatest sportsmen of all time (not just top tennis players) his ability would be lauded far more.
Serve like Sampras, return better than Agassi and volley like Becker.
Great player surely to be missed.
		
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One out of three maybe. 

He was a very good defensive player, but he played in an era where even IF he did have a serve like Sampras (which he didn't) or the ability to volley like Becker (which he didn't), he wouldn't have utilised them anyway.


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## USER1999 (Jan 12, 2019)

I admire what he has achieved.


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## PieMan (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Britain's greatest ever athlete.

That is all.

Proud of everything he has achieved, his honesty, his dedication, his stance on the inequalities within tennis prize money. An absolute gentleman and a star.
		
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Nope - that'll be either Sir Steve Redgrave or Daley Thompson.

But 100% agree with the rest.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Nope - that'll be either Sir Steve Redgrave or Daley Thompson.

But 100% agree with the rest.
		
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Would be Sir Steve Redgrave. Thompson was great but I don't think Redgrave's achievements will be surpassed


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Would be Sir Steve Redgrave. Thompson was great but I don't think Redgrave's achievements will be surpassed
		
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Steve Redgrave undoubtedly the greatest athlete in his sport and fantastic achievements but can someone from what is essentially a minority sport be considered Britain's greatest athlete? Daley Thompson would probably get my vote, at least until someone comes up with someone else that I haven't thought of up to now.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Nope - that'll be either Sir Steve Redgrave or Daley Thompson.

But 100% agree with the rest.
		
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Redgrave only sat in a boat. Chris Hoy did more than him.

Thomson was good but not in the Murray class.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 12, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Steve Redgrave undoubtedly the greatest athlete in his sport and fantastic achievements but can someone from what is essentially a minority sport be considered Britain's greatest athlete? Daley Thompson would probably get my vote, at least until someone comes up with someone else that I haven't thought of up to now.
		
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Don't get me wrong, Thompson's ability to master so many events and achieve the success he had was huge. I just think as a sporting legacy, what Redgrave achieved is something that won't be beaten, especially when you take into account the number of world titles etc on top of those Olympic golds. Just my opinion and can see your argument regarding Thompson


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2019)

I think itâ€™s near on impossible to say who is the greatest UK sportsman ever and itâ€™s all opinion but imo you can pick from any of the following

Murray
Thompson
Redgrave
Hoy
Holmes
Farah
Wilkinson 
Anslie
Pinsett
Coe
Botham
Faldo
Stewart
Hamilton
Lewis
Moore
Ennis
Pendalton
Weir
Grey Thompson


Take your pick

But what it does show for a small island and a lot of times not funded too much we have done pretty well for ourselves


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Redgrave only sat in a boat. Chris Hoy did more than him.

Thomson was good but not in the Murray class.
		
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I'm not even sure that Murray is Scotland's greatest ever sportsman, let alone Britain's greatest ever. Chris Hoy, as mentioned above, Kenny Dalglish, Stephen Hendry, Alan Wells, Jocky Wilson, Dennis Law and Jackie Stewart are just a few that come to mind as needing consideration and I'm sure there are several more that I've missed. But I guess that's the beauty of this type of discussion. There are so many variables that there isn't a definitive answer and it will all come down to opinions.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

Dalglish. Christ on a bike.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Dalglish. Christ on a bike.
		
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At Celtic.....

4 Scottish League titles
4 Scottish Cups
1 Scottish League Cup

At Liverpool.....

6 League titles
1 FA Cup
4 League Cups
3 European Cups
1 European Super Cup

A pretty decent haul of trophies that would stack up against most players from his era. Especially when you add 4 league titles, 2 FA cups and a League Cup as a manager.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			At Celtic.....

4 Scottish League titles
4 Scottish Cups
1 Scottish League Cup

At Liverpool.....

6 League titles
1 FA Cup
4 League Cups
3 European Cups
1 European Super Cup

A pretty decent haul of trophies that would stack up against most players from his era. Especially when you add 4 league titles, 2 FA cups and a League Cup as a manager.
		
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Team sports and nowhere near the level of achievement that Murray has achieved.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Team sports and nowhere near the level of achievement that Murray has achieved.
		
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In my opinion your argument about team sports is nonsense. You can have great sportsmen and women within a team environment. Using your distinction Steve Redgrave's achievements aren't as good as he was in a team sport as well? That means Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo can't be considered great sportsmen because they play team sports.  

Are you a Rangers fan? Could that have something to do with you not rating a former Celtic player very highly?

Murray has won three Grand Slams. Yes that's a good achievement but it's not what I'd consider a great career. Djokovitch has won 14 Grand Slams, Nadal has won 16, Federer has won 20. Those are what I would call great careers.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Team sports and nowhere near the level of achievement that Murray has achieved.
		
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On a world stage Murrayâ€™s achievements are nowhere near some of the other Britâ€™s mentioned. Some of them were the worlds best, and recognised as the greatest there sport has had. Murray in the grand scheme of things in tennis doesnâ€™t even make the top 10. So whilst his record is great on these shores, if achievement levels are used as a deciding factor. His doesnâ€™t carry as much weight as many others.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			In my opinion your argument about team sports is nonsense. You can have great sportsmen and women within a team environment. Using your distinction Steve Redgrave's achievements aren't as good as he was in a team sport as well? That means Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo can't be considered great sportsmen because they play team sports.  

Are you a Rangers fan? Could that have something to do with you not rating a former Celtic player very highly?

Murray has won three Grand Slams. Yes that's a good achievement but it's not what I'd consider a great career. Djokovitch has won 14 Grand Slams, Nadal has won 16, Federer has won 20. Those are what I would call great careers.
		
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You have just lost my interest when you played the bigot card.

Goodnight ðŸ˜´


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			On a world stage Murrayâ€™s achievements are nowhere near some of the other Britâ€™s mentioned. Some of them were the worlds best, and recognised as the greatest there sport has had. Murray in the grand scheme of things in tennis doesnâ€™t even make the top 10. So whilst his record is great on these shores, if achievement levels are used as a deciding factor. His doesnâ€™t carry as much weight as many others.
		
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Andy Murray was the world's best. Don't get ranked number one in the world for nothing.

His achievements are phenomenal, especially when you compare the era he achieved it in. 

Best British athlete ever.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			You have just lost my interest when you played the bigot card.

Goodnight ðŸ˜´
		
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"Bigot card"? Grow up. There was no bigot card played. The same argument could be made of an Everton fan not rating a former Liverpool player, a Spurs fan not rating a former Arsenal player or a Norwich fan not rating a former Ipswich player.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Andy Murray was the world's best. Don't get ranked number one in the world for nothing.

His achievements are phenomenal, especially when you compare the era he achieved it in.

*Best British athlete ever*

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Very hard to justify if going by pure winning - take for example Faldo - 6 majors , double what Murray did , also got to number one in the World , why would Murray be above him ?

Add in Hoy and all his medals , Redgrave , Thompson - the list is endless and certainly far to subjective to enable you to state with finality that Murray is the best ,at least provide more than just he got to Number 1


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## Papas1982 (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Andy Murray was the world's best. Don't get ranked number one in the world for nothing.

His achievements are phenomenal, especially when you compare the era he achieved it in. 

Best British athlete ever.
		
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Getting to number one and being known as the best arenâ€™t the same thing when discussed historically. Westwood and Donald have both gotten to world number 1. Where do they rank in the pantheon of golfing greats?

In this era, he is still at best the 4th best tennis player, that for me doesnâ€™t get you the accolades of best ever for me.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

Simply because thats my opinion and belief. What he achieved as I have already said is phenomenal when you see it. What he has put himself and his body through to achieve what he has. 

I'm not sure where in any previous post that I've asked people to agree with me.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 12, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Getting to number one and being known as the best arenâ€™t the same thing when discussed historically. Westwood and Donald have both gotten to world number 1. Where do they rank in the pantheon of golfing greats?

In this era, he is still at best the 4th best tennis player, that for me doesnâ€™t get you the accolades of best ever for me.
		
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Murray doesnt get placed above Borg, McEnroe, Pete Sampras and even Boris Becker let alone his immediate peers for me.


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## PieMan (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Redgrave only sat in a boat. Chris Hoy did more than him.

Thomson was good but not in the Murray class.
		
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Seriously what colour crayons taste the best to you?

What Andy Murray has achieved in his sport, and how he has represented himself and Scotland/Britain has been fantastic and he deserves all the plaudits he receives, but to say he's Britain's greatest ever sports person is frankly laughable.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

Sat in a boat and dipped an oar. Whoop whoop. 

At least Murray was a proper athlete ya rocket.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Sat in a boat and dipped an oar. Whoop whoop.

At least Murray was a proper athlete ya rocket.
		
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I can only assume it's because Murray is Scottish then................


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## Jacko_G (Jan 12, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-46838567

Beautiful.

Simply beautiful journalism.


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## Slime (Jan 12, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-46838567
Beautiful.
Simply beautiful journalism.
		
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I can't argue with much of that, he writes with the same passion Murray plays tennis with.


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## Orikoru (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Britain's greatest ever athlete.
		
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Errr you seem to be forgetting a certain Mr Harry Kane MBE. #oneofourown


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2019)

Top tennis player who can look back with huge pride on his career.  One thing though, he hasn't actually retired yet. It might be 2 weeks away, it might be 7 months away. Save the accolades and tears for when he actually packs in.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Sat in a boat and dipped an oar. Whoop whoop. 

At least Murray was a proper athlete ya rocket.
		
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Define athlete? I think Redgrave was as fit and focused as any other top sportsman.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 13, 2019)

drive4show said:



			Define athlete? I think Redgrave was as fit and focused as any other top sportsman.
		
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I dunno. I'd much rather of honed my skills in a freezing cold boat at 6am than perfect my return in Barcelona.........


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## PieMan (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Sat in a boat and dipped an oar. Whoop whoop.

At least Murray was a proper athlete ya rocket.
		
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Don't suppose you ever watched the documentary on Redgrave then a few years back and the training regime he went through every day, often at the crack of dawn and ending many hours later? Oh and doing all of this after being diagnosed with diabetes?

Go and get yourself a new pack of crayola! ðŸ˜‰


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Don't suppose you ever watched the documentary on Redgrave then a few years back and the training regime he went through every day, often at the crack of dawn and ending many hours later? Oh and doing all of this after being diagnosed with diabetes?

Go and get yourself a new pack of crayola! ðŸ˜‰
		
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Minority sport with about 4 other competitors worldwide. 

As I say it's all about opinions and mine is Sir Andy is top of the tree. Without a shadow of doubt. 

Two insults in the one thread - not sure how I'll sleep tonight.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



*Minority sport with about 4 other competitors worldwide.*

As I say it's all about opinions and mine is Sir Andy is top of the tree. Without a shadow of doubt.

Two insults in the one thread - not sure how I'll sleep tonight.
		
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Minority sport ? Tennis is also a minority sport - the participation levels wonâ€™t be far different , Redgrave was consistent over a 20 year period - as well as his 5 Olympic Golds you add in about 9 world championships as well

What about Farah - not a minority sport , 19 gold medals 5 Olympic , 6 world champs beating the best in the world consistently on the biggest stage

And of course there is always doubt when itâ€™s not something that can be quantified- but if you look at each sport and their results in the big comps - Murray is behind a good deal amount of people. Murrayâ€™s impact in tennis in the UK is superb and he did well to win 3 slams but thatâ€™s a far distance behind the best in the sport and about the same as someone like Warinka.

Yep itâ€™s all about opinions and Murray is one of the best in the UK but i woiod suspect itâ€™s always going to be a popularity contest

I would also add a certain Tony McCoy to the list - his achievements are something that imo wonâ€™t ever be topped in the sport


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

I'd argue Farah is more of a sportsman than Redgrave and a far better shout than him. 

If you want to argue Olympians then you can't omit Hoy either who has won more than the rower and Farah.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Minority sport with about 4 other competitors worldwide.

As I say it's all about opinions and mine is Sir Andy is top of the tree. Without a shadow of doubt.

Two insults in the one thread - not sure how I'll sleep tonight.
		
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Yes it is about opinions and you are entitled to yours.

However the first bit of your post isn't an opinion, it's a lack of knowledge.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			I'd argue Farah is more of a sportsman than Redgrave and a far better shout than him.
		
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Redgrave just sits in a boat and Farah just runs


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

drive4show said:



			Redgrave just sits in a boat and Farah just runs  

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Far greater competition.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Far greater competition.
		
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Now you are just showing your lack of knowledge about rowing.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

drive4show said:



			Now you are just showing your lack of knowledge about rowing.
		
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Oh dear. ðŸ™„


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			I'd argue Farah is more of a sportsman than Redgrave and a far better shout than him.

If you want to argue Olympians then you can't omit Hoy either who has won more than the rower and Farah.
		
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Hoy was mentioned earlier as well - but Hoy has an advantage same with Farah they can compete for multiple golds over one games - Hoy won 6 over three games ,( same with people like Kenneynand Wiggins )  Redgrave won 5 over 5 - thatâ€™s not been done by anyone else ever in the world.

Can never under state winning a gold in 5 Olympic Games


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 13, 2019)

Dont think there's as many sports thats as elitest as tennis, it even makes golf look positively common.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 13, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Dont think there's as many sports thats as elitest as tennis, it even makes golf look positively common.
		
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What about rowing? Only 4 other competitors worldwide apparently


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## TheDiablo (Jan 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Minority sport ? Tennis is also a minority sport - the participation levels wonâ€™t be far different , Redgrave was consistent over a 20 year period - as well as his 5 Olympic Golds you add in about 9 world championships as well

What about Farah - not a minority sport , 19 gold medals 5 Olympic , 6 world champs beating the best in the world consistently on the biggest stage
		
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Tennis a minority sport with similar participation levels to rowing? Clueless!

For me, the greatest UK athlete of all time has to be someone who plays a truly global sport and is truly world class in their era.

Not many tick those boxes, but Murray certainly does. Farah and Daley Thompson definitely others, but beyond that I'm struggling, we've not really been that blessed with as much talent in the major global sports as people would like to believe.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 13, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



*
For me, the greatest UK athlete of all time has to be someone who plays a truly global sport and is truly world class in their era.*

Not many tick those boxes, but Murray certainly does. Farah and Daley Thompson definitely others, but beyond that I'm struggling, we've not really been that blessed with as much talent in the major global sports as people would like to believe.
		
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No love for Faldo then?


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## USER1999 (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			I'd argue Farah is more of a sportsman than Redgrave and a far better shout than him.

If you want to argue Olympians then you can't omit Hoy either who has won more than the rower and Farah.
		
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Yeah, but Hoy just sits on a bike.


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## TheDiablo (Jan 13, 2019)

drive4show said:



			No love for Faldo then?
		
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Massive respect for him but not quite with the other 3. Golf has significant barriers to entry, is traditionally played in rich countries and mass participation numbers come as a result of people finding golf later in life. 

Globally, as a junior sport it would be a minority one and that's why he doesn't quite fit my criteria. I fully accept that's my subjective criteria though and Faldo would certainly be in my top 10


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would also add a certain Tony McCoy to the list - his achievements are something that imo wonâ€™t ever be topped in the sport
		
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He won't let you have Tony McCoy. He "just sits on a horse".


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

drive4show said:



			Now you are just showing your lack of knowledge about rowing.
		
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Just to further scorn your nonsense.


https://www.pledgesports.org/2017/06/top-10-most-popular-sports-in-the-world-by-participation/


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			He won't let you have Tony McCoy. He "just sits on a horse". 

Click to expand...

Absolutely spot on, the horse does the work!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Massive respect for him but not quite with the other 3. Golf has significant barriers to entry, is traditionally played in rich countries and mass participation numbers come as a result of people finding golf later in life.

Globally, as a junior sport it would be a minority one and that's why he doesn't quite fit my criteria. I fully accept that's my subjective criteria though and Faldo would certainly be in my top 10
		
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This is a debate with no answer but to throw my hat in, you talk about barriers:
Redgrave, How many people have access to rowing, in this country or other?
Murray, tennis is as elitist as golf
Hoy, how many people in this or any country have access to a velodrome?

British Olympic association have been really smart at throwing money at minority sports that enable us to medal well. Well done them but participation around the world has to be taken into account when judging how good people are.

I'll throw a fun one in, Joe Calzaghe.  World champion,  unbeaten. Can't do much more than that.

I don't think we have a clear greatest ever, no one has mentioned any team sports players so far, but we have some crackers for a general top 10.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Just to further scorn your nonsense.


https://www.pledgesports.org/2017/06/top-10-most-popular-sports-in-the-world-by-participation/

Click to expand...

What's your point? It only shows the top 10 sports out of hundreds. Cycling, fishing, rugby, rowing, running......there are loads more that have millions of participants.

Now, you get busy on Google and find a better answer.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 13, 2019)

With fifty nations listed as having won medals at rowing world championships I'd say that's reasonable evidence to indicate it's a 'global' sport...


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## USER1999 (Jan 13, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			With fifty nations listed as having won medals at rowing world championships I'd say that's reasonable evidence to indicate it's a 'global' sport...
		
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Do the same 4 or 5 athletes just keep changing passports?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2019)

The participation link doesn't half distort matters if the sport is played by people from  either India or China.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 13, 2019)

The number of tennis players worldwide has zero relevance on the barriers that brits have to it. 

Golf is no more difficult to take up than tennis. How many free public courts are there now? 

Plus Murray bloody moved to Barcelona. Not really what Timmy down the road can do.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 13, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Do the same 4 or 5 athletes just keep changing passports?
		
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Well, Sir Steve has taken himself off to China to run their rowing program...


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## TheDiablo (Jan 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This is a debate with no answer but to throw my hat in, you talk about barriers:
Redgrave, How many people have access to rowing, in this country or other?
Murray, tennis is as elitist as golf
Hoy, how many people in this or any country have access to a velodrome?

British Olympic association have been really smart at throwing money at minority sports that enable us to medal well. Well done them but participation around the world has to be taken into account when judging how good people are.

I'll throw a fun one in, Joe Calzaghe.  World champion,  unbeaten. Can't do much more than that.

I don't think we have a clear greatest ever, no one has mentioned any team sports players so far, but we have some crackers for a general top 10.
		
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I agree with most of this post, and that's why Redgrave and Hoy aren't with the others in my Top 3 but I don't get the elitist perception of tennis? 

Everyone has the chance to pick up a tennis racquet in the school playground, it's on the PE curriculum, many comp primary schools have after school clubs etc etc. 

There's over 20 nations represented in the top 30 men's players, many of which aren't exactly the richest nations on earth. 

Travel around Europe and many villages have free to play courts. 

Happy to be enlightened, I just don't see how it can viewed as elitist and/or with barriers to enter?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 13, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			I agree with most of this post, and that's why Redgrave and Hoy aren't with the others in my Top 3 but I don't get the elitist perception of tennis?

Everyone has the chance to pick up a tennis racquet in the school playground, it's on the PE curriculum, many comp primary schools have after school clubs etc etc.

There's over 20 nations represented in the top 30 men's players, many of which aren't exactly the richest nations on earth.

Travel around Europe and many villages have free to play courts.

*Happy to be enlightened, I just don't see how it can viewed as elitist and/or with barriers to enter?*

Click to expand...

Imo anyone may be able to have a go at school, but to take it up properly involves crazy money to the average family.

My work colleagues lad was the county champion aged 6 through to 9 and even then it was a lesson a week minimum at Â£40. Plus it was over 2hrs commute. I don't think many average families can cover that.


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## TheDiablo (Jan 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Imo anyone may be able to have a go at school, but to take it up properly involves crazy money to the average family.

My work colleagues lad was the county champion aged 6 through to 9 and even then it was a lesson a week minimum at Â£40. Plus it was over 2hrs commute. I don't think many average families can cover that.
		
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Change tennis for nearly every sport other than football in this country. Same result. Doesn't make it elitist.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 13, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Change tennis for nearly every sport other than football in this country. Same result. Doesn't make it elitist.
		
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That may be the case, but elitism has been used as a reason for discounting golf. I see a lot more kids playing golf than tennis.


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 13, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			Change tennis for nearly every sport other than football in this country. Same result. Doesn't make it elitist.
		
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Having done work at and for some of the staff at Queens, I can tell you elitism is firmly at the top of their tree. A commoner playing tennis, heavens forbid.


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## TheDiablo (Jan 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That may be the case, but elitism has been used as a reason for discounting golf. I see a lot more kids playing golf than tennis.
		
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You can see that, but I'd suggest the participation numbers at junior level in this country aren't close between the sports. I'd give you very good odds if you think you can show 'a lot' more kids play golf than tennis ðŸ˜‰

There are free tennis courts all over the UK, and all over the world. It's a truly global game with little barrier to entry. That's what makes Murray one of our greatest athletes imo, certainly above any golfer, rower or velodrome cyclist


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2019)

You can play tennis on dodgy school courts or municipal courts but to play it properly you have to join a club in this country. At that point it becomes as elitist as golf, perhaps more so as, sticking my neck out here, my perception is that there are far more golf clubs out there than tennis clubs.

I am happy to agree with your point about tennis on the continent. Drive around France, Holland, Belgium,  Spain, others I'm sure, and good tennis courts available to use are easy to find and widely used by all ages. The elitist angle is more of a British issue.

I'll throw some other names in for some debate, Gareth Edward's, Jonny Wilkinson,  Martin Johnson. Is rugby not widespread enough? Perhaps. 

If Chris Froome wasn't Kenyan then he would have a great shout. A road cyclist,  no barrier there.

Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton?

Jimmy Anderson?


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## Papas1982 (Jan 13, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			You can see that, but I'd suggest the participation numbers at junior level in this country aren't close between the sports. I'd give you very good odds if you think you can show 'a lot' more kids play golf than tennis ðŸ˜‰

There are free tennis courts all over the UK, and all over the world. It's a truly global game with little barrier to entry. That's what makes Murray one of our greatest athletes imo, certainly above any golfer, rower or velodrome cyclist
		
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I didnâ€™t know of any free courts back home (Southampton) when growing up. Of course I didnâ€™t have google then. But all I will say in regards to participation is that whilst playing golf at weekends or during summer. Iâ€™ve seen more kids on the course than on the courts when I drive to work. 

But to be honest I really donâ€™t think that itâ€™s relevant when discussing the greats though if Iâ€™m honest. The very best in any sport make it due to them being the very best. If anything if a sport is more elitist then surely the odds of making it in said sport is even more likely as thatâ€™s another barrier to you making it in the first place.


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## Slime (Jan 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I don't think we have a clear greatest ever, *no one has mentioned any team sports players so far*, but we have some crackers for a general top 10.
		
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Steve Redgrave.
He won 5 golds over 5 Olympic Games ....................... but he never rowed alone, there was always someone else rowing with him.
Just saying.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2019)

Always a sign of your place in sport when even your peers are sad you are retiring https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/46854720

I hope he can have a good Australian open, but fear he's perhaps not in the best place mentally and his body won't be willing. I assume he's going to try and get to Wimbledon for the home farewell and glad he's going out now rather than doing something like Seve and trying to eek it out forever when his body was telling him it was over. 

I don't know how you could ever define an ultimate sportsman as it's so subjective (perhaps makes top 100 courses look easy) but Redgrave still ranks up there in my mind, but acknowledge the likes of Hoy, Farah etc


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## USER1999 (Jan 13, 2019)

Slime said:



			Steve Redgrave.
He won 5 golds over 5 Olympic Games ....................... but he never rowed alone, there was always someone else rowing with him.
Just saying.  

Click to expand...

Yeah,  but Steve just sat in the boat.


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## USER1999 (Jan 13, 2019)

#passenger.


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## TheDiablo (Jan 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I didnâ€™t know of any free courts back home (Southampton) when growing up. Of course I didnâ€™t have google then. But all I will say in regards to participation is that whilst playing golf at weekends or during summer. Iâ€™ve seen more kids on the course than on the courts when I drive to work.

But to be honest I really donâ€™t think that itâ€™s relevant when discussing the greats though if Iâ€™m honest. The very best in any sport make it due to them being the very best. If anything if a sport is more elitist then surely the odds of making it in said sport is even more likely as thatâ€™s another barrier to you making it in the first place.
		
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You'll see what you want to see, in whatever environment you're in at a time. I didn't realise just how many houses had for sale signs outside until I was looking to buy a house. I didn't realise how many women were pregnant until my wife was etc etc. If you've never looked for free tennis courts, or kids playing tennis, then you'll never notice them. I'd wager you spend a vast amount of time around golf clubs in comparison to tennis clubs, so of course you'll see that. This is in no way a criticism by the way, just a nuance of life. 

The 2nd paragraph is literally what I've been saying. Murrays achievements in a global sport with little barrier to entry should imo be regarded higher than similar achievements in elitist sports, or those with a small footprint. There's simply less people with the interest or inclination taking up those sports as a junior or competing as professionals. 

I say all of this as someone with no history playing tennis at all, and if Wimbledon was shown on BT Sport I'd probably never watch a single minute of it. Nor am I in any way Scottish!


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## Papas1982 (Jan 13, 2019)

TheDiablo said:



			You'll see what you want to see, in whatever environment you're in at a time. I didn't realise just how many houses had for sale signs outside until I was looking to buy a house. I didn't realise how many women were pregnant until my wife was etc etc. If you've never looked for free tennis courts, or kids playing tennis, then you'll never notice them. I'd wager you spend a vast amount of time around golf clubs in comparison to tennis clubs, so of course you'll see that. This is in no way a criticism by the way, just a nuance of life. 

The 2nd paragraph is literally what I've been saying. Murrays achievements in a global sport with little barrier to entry should imo be regarded higher than similar achievements in elitist sports, or those with a small footprint. There's simply less people with the interest or inclination taking up those sports as a junior or competing as professionals. 

I say all of this as someone with no history playing tennis at all, and if Wimbledon was shown on BT Sport I'd probably never watch a single minute of it. Nor am I in any way Scottish!
		
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Whilst I clearly disagree, I canâ€™t argue with with the argument you put forward and can see why you would find merits in it. 

Tbh Iâ€™d not pay to watch tennis either, but I would do for golf. Does that make it a more relevant sport ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2019)

Slime said:



			Steve Redgrave.
He won 5 golds over 5 Olympic Games ....................... but he never rowed alone, there was always someone else rowing with him.
Just saying.  

Click to expand...

So he let the others do the real oar pulling? .

Good point, I forgot.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

This would have been so much simpler if people would just accept that Sir Andy is Britain's greatest ever athlete. 

Just going round and round now. 

Guys who sit in boats and on horses etc just don't cut the mustard.


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## TheDiablo (Jan 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Whilst I clearly disagree, I canâ€™t argue with with the argument you put forward and can see why you would find merits in it.

Tbh Iâ€™d not pay to watch tennis either, but I would do for golf. Does that make it a more relevant sport ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜‰
		
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I am happy to agree that golf is better than tennis ðŸ˜‰ðŸ‘ðŸ»


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 13, 2019)

Whatever sport someone participates in, being the best in the world is the ultimate goal and Murray for a time reached that. Like many other sportsmen/sportswomen he was someone that really had to work hard to get to the top (perhaps not the most natural player ever). He's certainly changed the face of British tennis and I think he'll be a huge success whatever he does next


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			This would have been so much simpler if people would just accept that Sir Andy is Britain's greatest ever athlete.

Just going round and round now.

Guys who sit in boats and on horses etc just don't cut the mustard.
		
Click to expand...

He may be Scotlands, but Britains...never.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He may be Scotlands, but Britains...never.
		
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Stop trying to turn this into a race/nationality issue.


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## USER1999 (Jan 13, 2019)

Phil 'the power' Taylor.

Just bungs darts at a board whilst drinking lager.


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## USER1999 (Jan 13, 2019)

Lewis Hamilton, just sits in a car.

Carl Fogferty just sits on a motor bike.

I like this game.


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## USER1999 (Jan 13, 2019)

Dennis Compton. Kicked a pigs bladder for Arsenal, and pratted about with a bit of willow for England.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			He may be Scotlands, but Britains...never.
		
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What about Jocky Wilson? Surely his achievements are worth far more than Andy Murray's. Yes, he only had to throw little arrows at a board a few feet away but to do it successfully while pissed takes it to another level. I've never seen Murray neck a dozen pints of lager during a match and still maintain his standards.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Stop trying to turn this into a race/nationality issue.
		
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Come on Craw - you are better than that , you know itâ€™s nothing of the sort and just being a touch mischievous with that sort of comment - adds nothing to it all

You have said a number of times itâ€™s just about opinions - and it is , you have yours and itâ€™s a fair shout but donâ€™t then post about how people need to accept your answer as the right answer. There is no right answer here because there is nothing that can â€œdefineâ€ with complete uncertainty who is the best  , so many different variables across differing sports.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Come on Craw - you are better than that , you know itâ€™s nothing of the sort and just being a touch mischievous with that sort of comment - adds nothing to it all

You have said a number of times itâ€™s just about opinions - and it is , you have yours and itâ€™s a fair shout but donâ€™t then post about how people need to accept your answer as the right answer. There is no right answer here because there is nothing that can â€œdefineâ€ with complete uncertainty who is the best  , so many different variables across differing sports.
		
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Wonder who always brings nationality into it?

I rest my case.


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Lewis Hamilton, just sits in a car.

Carl Fogferty just sits on a motor bike.

I like this game.
		
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Is driving a car even a sport?


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## Jacko_G (Jan 13, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			What about Jocky Wilson? Surely his achievements are worth far more than Andy Murray's. Yes, he only had to throw little arrows at a board a few feet away but to do it successfully while pissed takes it to another level. I've never seen Murray neck a dozen pints of lager during a match and still maintain his standards.
		
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True athlete is our Sir Andy.

Got to admire his dedication not to succumb to the dreaded Scottish alcoholism. And being a Hibee you can't even accuse him of being a bigot either. 

He really is Britain's best athlete ever.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			He really is Britain's best athlete ever.
		
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No he's not. 

But, hey ho, you say "potayto" and I say "potarto". Very subjective topic where there is no definitive answer as it's all down to opinions. 

But you are wrong of course.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 13, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Phil 'the power' Taylor.

Just bungs darts at a board whilst drinking lager.
		
Click to expand...

Now, now. Phil was from a different era. No lager on the oche for most of his career  â˜•ðŸ¥›. Pretty darned impressive record.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 13, 2019)

Jacko_G said:



			Is driving a car even a sport?
		
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It is when the greatest sportsman from North of the wall was behind the wheel...

I'm my opinion of course...


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## Fade and Die (Jan 13, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			No he's not.

But, hey ho, you say "potayto" and I say "potarto". Very subjective topic where there is no definitive answer as it's all down to opinions.

But you are wrong of course. 

Click to expand...

We can surely all agree that he was beyond boring though canâ€™t we?......and he looked like he had a cooking apple stuck in his throat!


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## Slime (Jan 13, 2019)

I can end this right here, right now.
His name was Max Woosnam ................................. the end!

He was an Olympic gold and silver medallist (at tennis), Davis Cup captain, Wimbledon champion; captain of Manchester City, captain of England's amateur football side and (still as an amateur) of the professional XI as well, played for Corinthians in Brazil; he scored a century at Lord's against the MCC, played golf off scratch and (almost incidentally) was a fiendish table-tennis player and, in retirement, became an expert snooker player, scoring a 147 maximum break.
Oh, he was a heavy smoker his whole life!

I think that top trumps everyone else.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 13, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			We can surely all agree that he was beyond boring though canâ€™t we?......and he looked like he had a cooking apple stuck in his throat!
		
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I think that it's fair to say that when a sportsman retires and there have to be stories written about when he wasn't boring then it's a safe bet that he was pretty boring......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/tennis/46841861


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## Bunkermagnet (Jan 14, 2019)

I think its a touch unfair to compare professional sportsman with amateurs(Olympians) anyway. 
Seeing as how the better professional sports persons ( in this case Murray) earn more than probably all CEO's of FTSE 100 companies, should we also laud their achievements when they retire too after earning the moneis they have from doing their JOB?


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## User2021 (Jan 14, 2019)

one set down


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## User2021 (Jan 14, 2019)

Two sets down now


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jan 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			I can end this right here, right now.
His name was Max Woosnam ................................. the end!

He was an Olympic gold and silver medallist (at tennis), Davis Cup captain, Wimbledon champion; captain of Manchester City, captain of England's amateur football side and (still as an amateur) of the professional XI as well, played for Corinthians in Brazil; he scored a century at Lord's against the MCC, played golf off scratch and (almost incidentally) was a fiendish table-tennis player and, in retirement, became an expert snooker player, scoring a 147 maximum break.
Oh, he was a heavy smoker his whole life!

I think that top trumps everyone else.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I was trying to remember his name.
His achievements really take some beating! ðŸ‘


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## User62651 (Jan 14, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			We can surely all agree that he was beyond boring though canâ€™t we?......and he looked like he had a cooking apple stuck in his throat!
		
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Djokovic, Nadal, Sampras....not exactly the life and soul of a party either, tough on the court but dull off it seems to be the way of tennis pros. Murray was fairly fiery on the court to be fair, usually when losing.


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## Slab (Jan 14, 2019)

jobr1850 said:



			Two sets down now
		
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Not anymore


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2019)

Over and out for Murray. Will we see him on a court again. I can understand the desire to bow out at Wimbledon but according to BBC Breakfast, his doctor has advised him against playing so will today be his last game. If so a fantastic effort from two love down to force it into a fifth and I guess the lack of match practice and the injury were the deciding factors.


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## Piece (Jan 14, 2019)

Murray to do a Tiger. Have a major op, then return in 2020 a new, competitive player.


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## Fade and Die (Jan 14, 2019)

Piece said:



			Murray to do a Tiger. Have a major op, then return in 2020 a new, competitive player.
		
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Or become a motivational speaker for The Insomniac Society. ðŸ˜


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2019)

Piece said:



			Murray to do a Tiger. Have a major op, then return in 2020 a new, competitive player.
		
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Already had the major op Iâ€™m afraid - shame though , hopefully he can get to Wimbledon 



Fade and Die said:



			Or become a motivational speaker for The Insomniac Society. ðŸ˜
		
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Why ? He has a superb sense of humour


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## hors limite (Jan 14, 2019)

I'm not anti Andy but I'm glad he lost. I am very disappointed by his media management of the decision to retire. Most of all I think that it's profoundly unfair to his opponent. Not least for the effect of sentiment on the crowd's behaviour. Similarly, today's opponent had to try and make sense of the message that Murray is on his last legs whilst being on the receiving end of aces and winners - it's got to be off-putting. I think that he should have used his considerable and admirable personal determination to carry on playing until he knew that it was the end and then announced his retirement.


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## Piece (Jan 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Already had the major op Iâ€™m afraid - shame though , hopefully he can get to Wimbledon
		
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"If I want to go again, I'll need to have a big operation, which there's no guarantee I'll be able to come back from anyway, but I'll give it my best shot." Andy Murray today.

Like Tiger last few years, more ops in the offering if needed. Just whether he wants to do it or not.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 14, 2019)

On todays showing, even it takes another op, still feel he has much to offer... Not sure he's ready to throw in the towel just yet...


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## PaulyMcK (Jan 14, 2019)

Just watched the last two points he lost in final set, he certainly was fighting to try and turn the game over.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			On todays showing, even it takes another op, still feel he has much to offer... Not sure he's ready to throw in the towel just yet...
		
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Depends on his future health though. He doesn't want to end up with replacing his hips every 10 years, struggling to get out of bed, not able to play with his kids etc. I don't know how shot his hips are but he has to factor in the rest of his life.

There is no question about his desire in my eyes.


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## PieMan (Jan 14, 2019)

Incredibly brave and heroic performance today from not Britain's Greatest Sportsperson!

If that is indeed the last we see of him on court in competitive action then what a way to bow out. The tribute at the end from his fellow pros was very moving.

Hope he makes it to Wimbledon - what a send off he'll get there.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 14, 2019)

Personally I hope he calls it quits. To be brutally honest, even if he has the op and regains fitness thatâ€™s probably two years awayto get sharp again,  if we use Tiger as as an example (I know different sports). In a sport that age is more pressing I donâ€™t really see him ever getting back to the level required to win again. 

I can see why Tiger would come back as he still feels he can chase down Jack, but what is Murray really going to add to his legacy? Better be fit for your family than add a few more semis to your honours list.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 14, 2019)

Before anyone mentions Federer's age you have to look at his style of play to realise he is different. Federer is balletic and glides across a court. His style of play is smooth. Murray is more jerky, harder on his joints, although not as brutal as Nadal who is surely going to end up in trouble long term. That is not a criticism of Murray, more an observation and admiration of Federer.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 14, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Before anyone mentions Federer's age you have to look at his style of play to realise he is different. Federer is balletic and glides across a court. His style of play is smooth. Murray is more jerky, harder on his joints, although not as brutal as Nadal who is surely going to end up in trouble long term. That is not a criticism of Murray, more an observation and admiration of Federer.
		
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I think a lot of players could have issues in the future. Sets are longer now than in the past. With a lot more base line rallyâ€™s with the extra pressure that puts on joints itâ€™s inevitable more will succumb imo.  

Federer started in the serve and volley era, the fact heâ€™s managed to adapt and beat the new style and then won again reverting to a more direct style shows why he truly is the GOAT and would have dominated any era in tennis.


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## MegaSteve (Jan 14, 2019)

Feel he has lived the dream and loved every minute... Not sure he's quite ready to let go just yet... I am sure he'll be talking to his family as well as getting the best medical advice before he finally calls it a day... Not sure he finds playing doubles quite as fulfilling but would make a great coach...


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## Doon frae Troon (Jan 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			It is when the greatest sportsman from North of the wall was behind the wheel...

I'm my opinion of course...
		
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I didn't know James Braid drove a car.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jan 14, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Before anyone mentions Federer's age you have to look at his style of play to realise he is different. Federer is balletic and glides across a court. His style of play is smooth. Murray is more jerky, harder on his joints, although not as brutal as Nadal who is surely going to end up in trouble long term. That is not a criticism of Murray, more an observation and admiration of Federer.
		
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It also helps that Federer and Nadals issue were with knees which can be fixed to a good strength as opposed to Murray which is his hip which for a tennis player is near on career ending


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It also helps that Federer and Nadals issue were with knees which can be fixed to a good strength as opposed to Murray which is his hip which for a tennis player is near on career ending
		
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I'm not a doctor but I worry about the impact on Nadal's knees. If you watch him play he really pounds them and I don't see how long term he can not be in real trouble. I'm amazed he came back from his last lay off.

Federer is just so light on his feet in comparison, he would not mark sand if he walked on it


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## MegaSteve (Jan 14, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			I didn't know James Braid drove a car.
		
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What, no love for Andy or Sir Monty...


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## User62651 (Jan 14, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I'm not a doctor but I worry about the impact on Nadal's knees. If you watch him play he really pounds them and I don't see how long term he can not be in real trouble. I'm amazed he came back from his last lay off.

Federer is just so light on his feet in comparison, he would not mark sand if he walked on it 

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Re Goat I guess we have to give it to Fed for now BUT Nadal is only 3 grand slams behind whilst *5* years younger and on head to heads Nadal is way better, leading 23-15 including 9-3 in majors. Very easy to make a case for Nadal but the luvvies just cant see past poster boy Fed.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 14, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Re Goat I guess we have to give it to Fed for now BUT Nadal is only 3 grand slams behind whilst *5* years younger and on head to heads Nadal is way better, leading 23-15 including 9-3 in majors. Very easy to make a case for Nadal but the luvvies just cant see past poster boy Fed.
		
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Nadal is my favourite of all time. I just think that Federer has in the past played the more enjoyable tennis. Iâ€™d be amazed if Nadal gets to play 5 years longer than Federer though tbh. 

Re the head to head, strange as it may sound but Federers all round game could be a contributing factor. Of the 38 meetings. 14 have been on clay. Nadal has that 12-2. As we all know Nadal is almost unbeatable on clay. So Federer is always likely to meet him on that surface and enhance his record,  where as others can beat Nadal on hard and grass meaning Federer doesnâ€™t always get to face him in those surfaces.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 14, 2019)

I simply don't think he feels he can go through another operation, with no guarantee of it being much better (from what I heard the problem won't ever be fixed 100%) all the rehab and battle to get back and get back to a standard he'll be happy with. No shame in calling it a day as a result. I imagine he'll try to get to Wimbledon and bow out there. You're a long time retired and so he has to think of his family and the future. I hope the comeback today won't cloud him and he goes for the op and tries to plod on. It does remind me of the way Seve finished his ET career with his bad back


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## Jacko_G (Jan 14, 2019)

Heroic effort from Britain's greatest ever sportsman.

Today should be declared a national holiday from next year on.


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## ColchesterFC (Jan 15, 2019)

Slime said:



			I can end this right here, right now.
His name was Max Woosnam ................................. the end!

He was an Olympic gold and silver medallist (at tennis), Davis Cup captain, Wimbledon champion; captain of Manchester City, captain of England's amateur football side and (still as an amateur) of the professional XI as well, played for Corinthians in Brazil; he scored a century at Lord's against the MCC, played golf off scratch and (almost incidentally) was a fiendish table-tennis player and, in retirement, became an expert snooker player, scoring a 147 maximum break.
Oh, he was a heavy smoker his whole life!

I think that top trumps everyone else.
		
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But to put that in context, the football and cricket part of it was as part of a team sport so that can be dismissed. Golf is elitist, table tennis isn't a proper sport and snooker is a pub game so that doesn't count either. And what you're left with is an Olympic Gold medal at tennis (which Murray can match), an Olympic silver medal at tennis (not actually a winner but first loser so that doesn't count), Davis Cup captain (did he win it single handedly as Murray did?) and Wimbledon Champion (Murray has got that twice?). So therefore Murray is better.


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## Slime (Jan 15, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			But to put that in context, the football and cricket part of it was as part of a team sport so that can be dismissed. Golf is elitist, table tennis isn't a proper sport and snooker is a pub game so that doesn't count either. And what you're left with is an Olympic Gold medal at tennis (which Murray can match), an Olympic silver medal at tennis (not actually a winner but first loser so that doesn't count), Davis Cup captain (did he win it single handedly as Murray did?) and Wimbledon Champion (Murray has got that twice?). So therefore Murray is better.
		
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Oy, his two Olympic medals were won ON THE SAME DAY and he was a scratch golfer with several course records.


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## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			You can play tennis on dodgy school courts or municipal courts but to play it properly you have to join a club in this country. At that point it becomes as elitist as golf, perhaps more so as, sticking my neck out here, my perception is that there are far more golf clubs out there than tennis clubs.
		
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Sorry, just catching up the last 4 pages and picked this as one example of many posts about 'elitism' in tennis. I'm very surprised to hear that is many people's views. Back in primary school a tennis coaching academy came into the school and asked if anyone wanted to sign up to tennis. I did so. We used to have a tennis lesson after school in the week, and then later I went to coaching sessions on the weekend, which I'm sure I remember only being about 6 quid for an hour's group coaching. I did this all the way through my teens until I got a bit older and gave it up for other pursuits. Don't understand the elitism comments at all.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry, just catching up the last 4 pages and picked this as one example of many posts about 'elitism' in tennis. I'm very surprised to hear that is many people's views. Back in secondary school a tennis coaching academy came into the school and asked if anyone wanted to sign up to tennis. I did so. We used to have a tennis lesson after school in the week, and then later I went to coaching sessions on the weekend, which I'm sure I remember only being about 6 quid for an hour's group coaching. I did this all the way through my teens until I got a bit older and gave it up for other pursuits. Don't understand the elitism comments at all.
		
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Was it just an after school fun activity? Or were there some decent players who then went for one to one? Lots of courses in our area now do kids golf group lessons for peanuts too. But if you want to pursue it properly the costs escalate quickly. As it does with tennis also.


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## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Was it just an after school fun activity? Or were there some decent players who then went for one to one? Lots of courses in our area now do kids golf group lessons for peanuts too. But if you want to pursue it properly the costs escalate quickly. As it does with tennis also.
		
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When I went to the weekend coaching, there were levels of ability so you would go up and down depending on who good you were. The guys at the top level had one on one coaching and a select few were entered onto the national tournaments and that I think. I was never good enough for any of that, I think I only moved between the 2nd and 3rd levels.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jan 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Sorry, just catching up the last 4 pages and picked this as one example of many posts about 'elitism' in tennis. I'm very surprised to hear that is many people's views. Back in secondary school a tennis coaching academy came into the school and asked if anyone wanted to sign up to tennis. I did so. We used to have a tennis lesson after school in the week, and then later I went to coaching sessions on the weekend, which I'm sure I remember only being about 6 quid for an hour's group coaching. I did this all the way through my teens until I got a bit older and gave it up for other pursuits. Don't understand the elitism comments at all.
		
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Perhaps it was a regional thing and you were in a good area. Perhaps I was in a bad area? I can only go off my own experiences but if they are not reflective then I am pleased to hear it.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			When I went to the weekend coaching, there were levels of ability so you would go up and down depending on who good you were. The guys at the top level had one on one coaching and a select few were entered onto the national tournaments and that I think. I was never good enough for any of that, I think I only moved between the 2nd and 3rd levels.
		
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Thatâ€™s what Iâ€™d expect. Nice and cheap and fun for the masses. Then the select few if they wanted to go anywhere with it would need extra (at extra expense). As was discussed on here, tennis was easily accessible to play for fun but just as elitist (expensive) to pursue properly.


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## Orikoru (Jan 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Thatâ€™s what Iâ€™d expect. Nice and cheap and fun for the masses. Then the select few if they wanted to go anywhere with it would need extra (at extra expense). As was discussed on here, tennis was easily accessible to play for fun but just as elitist (expensive) to pursue properly.
		
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Yeah, I suppose so. It probably helps if your mum is already a tennis coach (as with Murray).


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## MegaSteve (Jan 18, 2019)

From commentary this morning it would appear AndyM has elected to have similiar surgery as Bob Bryan...

Can only continue to wish him well and hope to see him able to play again in the future...


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## User62651 (Jan 18, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			From commentary this morning it would appear AndyM has elected to have similiar surgery as Bob Bryan...

Can only continue to wish him well and hope to see him able to play again in the future...
		
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Begs the question why could he not have weighed this decision up before all the premature 'I'm finished this year' tears and media stuff last week? Bit odd.


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## ger147 (Jan 29, 2019)

Murray has had his hip surgery...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/46916064


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## Slime (Jan 29, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Murray has had his hip surgery...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/46916064

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I genuinely wish him well.


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## chrisd (Jan 30, 2019)

Having had both hips resurfaced and knowing how good the outcome, and having played competitive tennis for 10 years before finding golf, I really do wish Andy the very best for the future


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 30, 2019)

Good that he's had the operation, but do we really think a) he can fully recover in time for Wimbledon and b) he'll manage to regain a full level of fitness to compete amongst the worlds best?

Personally I think the answer to both is no, but having said that I hope the surgery works for him and allows him to enjoy a long and pain free retirement, time with his family and that he can find himself a niche somewhere and enjoy a long, second career away from tennis


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## chrisd (Jan 30, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Good that he's had the operation, but do we really think a) he can fully recover in time for Wimbledon and b) he'll manage to regain a full level of fitness to compete amongst the worlds best?

Personally I think the answer to both is no, but having said that I hope the surgery works for him and allows him to enjoy a long and pain free retirement, time with his family and that he can find himself a niche somewhere and enjoy a long, second career away from tennis
		
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I dont see why he couldn't recover. He's extremely fit going into surgery, they will have got him up and walking the same day. I played 9 holes 3 weeks after my first resurface and 5 weeks with the second one, I realise there's little comparison but a lot of the desire to play/or fear of playing will be in his head.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jan 30, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I dont see why he couldn't recover. He's extremely fit going into surgery, they will have got him up and walking the same day. I played 9 holes 3 weeks after my first resurface and 5 weeks with the second one, I realise there's little comparison but a lot of the desire to play/or fear of playing will be in his head.
		
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It's just a personal point of view and I accept he's a fantastic athlete and very fit and will get through rehab. It's more the workload and stresses on the hip once he gets back on tour I'm worried about


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## chrisd (Jan 30, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It's just a personal point of view and I accept he's a fantastic athlete and very fit and will get through rehab. It's more the workload and stresses on the hip once he gets back on tour I'm worried about
		
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I'm fairly sure that so long as the bone that the the two parts of the resurfaces fit to, is ok, he'll be absolutely  fine


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## Kellfire (Jan 31, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I'm fairly sure that so long as the bone that the the two parts of the resurfaces fit to, is ok, he'll be absolutely  fine
		
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It's not that simple. Having had it resurfaced he's now on borrowed time before he gets a more invasive hip replacement. If he stays playing elite tennis he'll be wearing out his existing bone structure much more quickly than a "normal" patient.


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## chrisd (Jan 31, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			It's not that simple. Having had it resurfaced he's now on borrowed time before he gets a more invasive hip replacement. If he stays playing elite tennis he'll be wearing out his existing bone structure much more quickly than a "normal" patient.
		
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Are you an expert in these matters?


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## Kellfire (Jan 31, 2019)

chrisd said:



			Are you an expert in these matters?
		
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I've spent over nine years working in medical classification including extensive work with orthopaedic surgeons to help them best plan routine surgery such as total hip replacements, partial replacements, resurfacing and more recently labral repairs to try and stave off the initial replacement. The longer they can hold off the primary surgery, the longer the patient has overall with maximum mobility. In an elite athlete, this is a massive surgery and he would struggle to play at the previous standard because he'll never have the same rotation in the hip ever again. Ultimately, this resurfacing will be upgraded to a hip replacement. Whether that's in five years, ten years, etc will largely depend on how much he puts it through but he's now losing bone mass from his acetabulum (aka developing higher grade arthritis) at a greater rate that he would have been with his natural femoral head.


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			I've spent over nine years working in medical classification including extensive work with orthopaedic surgeons to help them best plan routine surgery such as total hip replacements, partial replacements, resurfacing and more recently labral repairs to try and stave off the initial replacement. The longer they can hold off the primary surgery, the longer the patient has overall with maximum mobility. In an elite athlete, this is a massive surgery and he would struggle to play at the previous standard because he'll never have the same rotation in the hip ever again. Ultimately, this resurfacing will be upgraded to a hip replacement. Whether that's in five years, ten years, etc will largely depend on how much he puts it through but he's now losing bone mass from his acetabulum (aka developing higher grade arthritis) at a greater rate that he would have been with his natural femoral head.
		
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So yes then?!


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## Kellfire (Jan 31, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			So yes then?! 

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Haha, well I'm not a doctor or anything but my experience tells me that when you're talking about this kind of damage to a joint it's usually only going one way.


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2019)

chrisd said:



			I'm fairly sure that so long as the bone that the the two parts of the resurfaces fit to, is ok, he'll be absolutely  fine
		
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There's quite a list of professional sports people who've had it done and returned to compete in their respective sports. I wouldn't say that a NHL player is sedentary, nor someone who does a 50 mile mountain bike comp through the Ozark mountains. A MLB pitcher, an Olympic Tai Kwon do champion. One guy went on to run a marathon not long after, and then did well in the World Ultraman Championships.

Its possible, a bit like Tiger Woods and his back surgery.


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## chrisd (Jan 31, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			There's quite a list of professional sports people who've had it done and returned to compete in their respective sports. I wouldn't say that a NHL player is sedentary, nor someone who does a 50 mile mountain bike comp through the Ozark mountains. A MLB pitcher, an Olympic Tai Kwon do champion. One guy went on to run a marathon not long after, and then did well in the World Ultraman Championships.

Its possible, a bit like Tiger Woods and his back surgery.
		
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I think Andy Murray could at least return to play tournaments  to prepare and get fit enough to go for the big farewell at Wimbledon 



Kellfire said:



			I've spent over nine years working in medical classification including extensive work with orthopaedic surgeons to help them best plan routine surgery such as total hip replacements, partial replacements, resurfacing and more recently labral repairs to try and stave off the initial replacement. The longer they can hold off the primary surgery, the longer the patient has overall with maximum mobility. In an elite athlete, this is a massive surgery and he would struggle to play at the previous standard because he'll never have the same rotation in the hip ever again. Ultimately, this resurfacing will be upgraded to a hip replacement. Whether that's in five years, ten years, etc will largely depend on how much he puts it through but he's now losing bone mass from his acetabulum (aka developing higher grade arthritis) at a greater rate that he would have been with his natural femoral head.
		
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So what you are saying is that my quest to play on the Seniors Tour, once I get my handicap down to scratch from 12, is likely to be hampered by my 2 resurfaces and reconstructed left knee  - thanks for breaking the news so gently ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”


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## Papas1982 (Jan 31, 2019)

chrisd said:



*I think Andy Murray could at least return to play tournaments  to prepare and get fit enough to go for the big farewell at Wimbledon*



So what you are saying is that my quest to play on the Seniors Tour, once I get my handicap down to scratch from 12, is likely to be hampered by my 2 resurfaces and reconstructed left knee  - thanks for breaking the news so gently ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”
		
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I think as long as he say's he's fit, the'll get a wildcard if required to Wimbledon. Whether that's right or not is another discussion, but iof the last 18 months is anything to go buy. His big farewell will be in week one.


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## Hobbit (Jan 31, 2019)

chrisd said:



			So what you are saying is that my quest to play on the Seniors Tour, once I get my handicap down to scratch from 12, is likely to be hampered by my 2 resurfaces and reconstructed left knee  - thanks for breaking the news so gently ðŸ¤”ðŸ¤”
		
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You forgot to mention your undoubted talent Chris


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## chrisd (Jan 31, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			You forgot to mention your undoubted talent Chris

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I forgot to mention my lack of talent Brian ðŸ˜£


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## MegaSteve (Jun 3, 2019)

Pleased to read 'Sir' Andy feels the procedure he had for his troublesome hip has gone well enough to consider a return to playing at Queens... Albeit in doubles...


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## Slime (Jun 3, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Pleased to read 'Sir' Andy feels the procedure he had for his troublesome hip has gone well enough to consider a return to playing at Queens... Albeit in doubles...
		
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That's great news.


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## User62651 (Jun 5, 2019)

Federer has altered the perception of how long you can play at the top level in tennis, a few like Andy looking on thinking 'if he can do it so can I'. Amazing drive these people have, rich enough to retire at 25 but most (Borg apart) want to go on and on. Does the endless grind of airports/hotels/practice/press conferences/matches/physio etc etc not wear off after 15 years? Is it money driven or trophy driven? With Murray I think it's a trophy/career thing.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 5, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Federer has altered the perception of how long you can play at the top level in tennis, a few like Andy looking on thinking 'if he can do it so can I'. Amazing drive these people have, rich enough to retire at 25 but most (Borg apart) want to go on and on. Does the endless grind of airports/hotels/practice/press conferences/matches/physio etc etc not wear off after 15 years? Is it money driven or trophy driven? With Murray I think it's a trophy/career thing.
		
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I think the way Federer plays has a major part on his heath and lack of massive injuries too. Heâ€™s graceful and generally his sets are over quicker. I donâ€™t expect many to play as long as he does. Also helps that during his Pomo he was so much better than the rest that he one easily on multiple occasions.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jun 5, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I think the way Federer plays has a major part on his heath and lack of massive injuries too. Heâ€™s graceful and generally his sets are over quicker. I donâ€™t expect many to play as long as he does. Also helps that during his Pomo he was so much better than the rest that he one easily on multiple occasions.
		
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Agree hugely with this regarding the style of Federer. He glides over the court. He is not making jarring and stamping movements, he is almost balletic. If you look at Murray, Nadal even more, they are far more violent in their shot making and movement around the court. It is inevitable that their joints will suffer eventually.

In terms of desire to go on, it is impressive. The tennis tour really is a grind and you would think the edge would start to go after the amount of time someone like Federer has been going.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 5, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Agree hugely with this regarding the style of Federer. He glides over the court. He is not making jarring and stamping movements, he is almost balletic. If you look at Murray, Nadal even more, they are far more violent in their shot making and movement around the court. It is inevitable that their joints will suffer eventually.

In terms of desire to go on, it is impressive. The tennis tour really is a grind and you would think the edge would start to go after the amount of time someone like Federer has been going.
		
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I think he came close to retiring a few years ago, then with some rivals getting injured he fancied his chances against the best of the rest. At the same time, his style clearly changed as he went back to a more serve and volley style, knowing he couldnâ€™t keep up for 5 sets over a 2 week period.


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## MegaSteve (Jun 5, 2019)

Or, it just could be RogerF was fortunate enough to come from a gene pool that didn't leave him susceptible to getting arthritic joints...


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## mikseymono (Jun 5, 2019)

Roger is simply the best and does glide over the court..whilst most of the others really force the ball...Nadal included...but he is a special case..........I can not see the others lasting as long as Roger. I play regular tennis...no where near the pros...like no where.....but my game is centred around a good serve and getting it back...less errors..and relying on the other side to make an error....however the likes of Roger etc are able to win a point at any moment and make very few errors...it is pure poetry in motion...we are truly blessed with his talent but will only truly appreciate him when he has long retired.


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## MegaSteve (Jun 21, 2019)

Great return, from retirement, by Sir Andy yesterday...


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## Slime (Jun 21, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Great return, from retirement, by Sir Andy yesterday...
		
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It was superb, he played some great shots too.
More imortantly, he said he was totally pain free ........great news.


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## USER1999 (Jun 21, 2019)

Can he not just flipping go? Announce retirement, retire. Is that not how it works?


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## Slime (Jun 21, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Can he not just flipping go? Announce retirement, retire. *Is that not how it works?*

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Not when he's capable of competing.


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## Papas1982 (Jun 21, 2019)

Slime said:



*Not when he's capable of competing*.
		
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That remains to be seen.......

I mean a lot thought tiger would never win a major but this imo is a whole new level.


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## Slime (Jun 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



*That remains to be seen.......*

I mean a lot thought tiger would never win a major but this imo is a whole new level.
		
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Fingers crossed.


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## MegaSteve (Jun 21, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That remains to be seen.......

I mean a lot thought tiger would never win a major but this imo is a whole new level.
		
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Believe AM is just taking pleasure from playing without pain... Feel anything beyond that will be seen as a bonus...


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