# groove sharpeners



## kev_off_the_tee (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks to some advice on the forum, I've decided to keep my Wilson Fatshaft 2 irons for at least another year.

my next question is how many people use groove sharpeners to tun/clean their irons?

I've heard good and bad reviews on websites but not in any forum (real golfers)

your thoughts are appreciated

Kevin


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## drawboy (Nov 27, 2010)

It has been discussed on here lots of times with the almost inevitable for and against arguments. I have argued in the past that if they were illegal to use the R&A would have stepped in by now to ban them. Other forum members have their own ideas. I suppose until the R&A does step in it is down to the individual and their feelings.


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## kev_off_the_tee (Nov 27, 2010)

and what about the pro's and con's to your irons. I've heard suggestions of quick rusting, or possibly making the club face soft?

Kevin


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## USER1999 (Nov 27, 2010)

You can't soften the face of a steel club with heat treatment, and any plating is so thin as to be irrelevant whether you remove it or not.

Groove sharpeners remove material. Most grooves are precision made, right on the limits. Removing metal is therefore cheating. You might as well bung the heads in a milling machine and put your own bigger grooves in. No one will ever know but you.


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## kev_off_the_tee (Nov 27, 2010)

but the precision grooves flatten over time therefore no longer the same specification as when they left the factory. The sharpeners merely remove some of the 'squashed' metal within R&A limits.

But are you saying that the groove sharpener will effectivly 'damage' the irons by removing the thin plating.


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## USER1999 (Nov 27, 2010)

They will remove plating, so the face will rust afterwards.

Your grooves/club face would have to look totally shagged before you could start legally removing any metal. I can't see this happening through normal use.


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## drawboy (Nov 27, 2010)

See what I mean about differences of opinion


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## Imurg (Nov 27, 2010)

if they were illegal to use the R&A would have stepped in by now to ban them.
		
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These sharpeners are not illegal as they are not golf equipment and therefore are not covered by the rules.
But I'm with Murph on this. If you can guarantee to not increase the size or depth of.the groove then go ahead. But these grooves are cut to pretty small tolerances, so small that Ping were complaining that they were unworkable. So its user beware. Personally, if one of my wedges needed resharpening I'd just buy a new one because the rest of it would be worn out as well.


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## Fyldewhite (Nov 27, 2010)

As you can't guarantee that a club still conforms to the rules after using these then you should really throw the club in the bin and buy another that does conform. Alternatively, if you are willing to play with a club that you know to be suspect then you may as well go the whole hog and start kicking the ball out of the rough too.


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## drawboy (Nov 27, 2010)

I think it's about time that the R&A came out of the closet on this issue and tested these products then made a decision whether or not they can be used. As I've said before surely they know they exist and golfers are using them.


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## surefire (Nov 27, 2010)

Doesn't rule 4-1b regarding equipment cover this?




			b. Wear and Alteration 
A club that conforms with the Rules when new is deemed to conform after wear through normal use. Any part of a club that has been purposely altered is regarded as new and must, in its altered state, conform with the Rules.
		
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Its almost impossible for the R&A to test a groove sharpener, because the result depends how you use it.

Unless you have a very precision groove sharpener (perhaps a milling machine?  Not a hand held tool) I would say you can't guarantee the specifications of the grooves you have modified and so should either submit the club to the R&A for testing, or not use it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 27, 2010)

I think it's about time that the R&A came out of the closet on this issue
		
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I think this would be a long way down the list of things they need to address. GPS devices anyone?


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## Garesfield ACE (Nov 27, 2010)

Alreet kevin....at last another fellow Geordie I hope..lol...Kev!..lol..and new to golf to!


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## Garesfield ACE (Nov 27, 2010)

but the precision grooves flatten over time therefore no longer the same specification as when they left the factory. The sharpeners merely remove some of the 'squashed' metal within R&A limits.

But are you saying that the groove sharpener will effectivly 'damage' the irons by removing the thin plating.
		
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oops the stella is working!...lol


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## Imurg (Nov 27, 2010)

I think it's about time that the R&A came out of the closet on this issue and tested these products then made a decision whether or not they can be used. As I've said before surely they know they exist and golfers are using them.
		
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They can be used. No arguement there.

There are rules regarding shape and depth of grooves in place. If you can use one of these things and guarantee that you don't exceed any limits then knock yourself out.
The R&A don't need to outlaw them as rules exist that do the job.
I have no problem with them as such - it's just how do you make sure you don't alter the shape/depth beyond limits set out in the rules?


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## kev_off_the_tee (Nov 27, 2010)

Alreet kevin....at last another fellow Geordie I hope..lol...Kev!..lol..and new to golf to!
		
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Yes another geordie, playing golf in a polo shirt in 6 inches of snow no less

not like the southerners


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## Garesfield ACE (Nov 27, 2010)

Alreet kevin....at last another fellow Geordie I hope..lol...Kev!..lol..and new to golf to!
		
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Yes another geordie, playing golf in a polo shirt in 6 inches of snow no less

not like the southerners
		
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lol...nice one...in jest?...you didnt play today?!!..havent played since last Saturday..judging by forecast cant see a game happening for at least another week...


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## kev_off_the_tee (Nov 28, 2010)

haven't had a round this week.

Been at the driving range on wednesday and friday though, arrived in a jacket but stripped to my shirt

two gloves on though


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## chris661 (Nov 28, 2010)

I think it's about time that the R&A came out of the closet on this issue and tested these products then made a decision whether or not they can be used. As I've said before surely they know they exist and golfers are using them.
		
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They can be used. No arguement there.

There are rules regarding shape and depth of grooves in place. If you can use one of these things and guarantee that you don't exceed any limits then knock yourself out.
The R&A don't need to outlaw them as rules exist that do the job.
I have no problem with them as such - it's just how do you make sure you don't alter the shape/depth beyond limits set out in the rules?
		
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In real terms what dfference will an increase of 0.01 to even 1mm of depth of the groove make to the average club golfer? I can understand the arguements but in reality it just seems a bit daft to be that concerned about it when there are people that will/would cheat in more obvious ways.


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## drawboy (Nov 28, 2010)

Here.Here.


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## surefire (Nov 28, 2010)

In real terms what dfference will an increase of 0.01 to even 1mm of depth of the groove make to the average club golfer? I can understand the arguements but in reality it just seems a bit daft to be that concerned about it when there are people that will/would cheat in more obvious ways.
		
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Dangerous ground, as now perhaps we should question other rules?

What's the difference to the average player, teeing off 1 yard in front of the markers?

What about dropping nearer the hole, or within 4 club lengths?

The rules have to be definitely defined at some level, otherwise it is pointless having them.


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## drawboy (Nov 28, 2010)

I definately question the rule that makes you play from some inconsiderate gits unrepaired divot.


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## USER1999 (Nov 28, 2010)

Once you start bending the rules, you are a cheat. End of.


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## chris661 (Nov 28, 2010)

Once you start bending the rules, you are a cheat. End of.
		
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Bending or breaking? End of.


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## viscount17 (Nov 29, 2010)

It's perfectly reasonable to question the rules, and to challenge them. That's where the decisions book comes from (and demonstrates that the rules are far from perfect). 

Unfortunately, until the R&A change them we're stuck with them, and to get them to do that you have to get them onto the agenda for the rules committee. 

You never know, if you write to them they might listen.


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