# Lost ball ownership rights



## The_ACE (Nov 20, 2011)

After my round on Saturday me and my mate decided to go out and go ball hunting (finding). After a rather unsuccessful hour we returned and showed our pitiful loot to the other juniors. It quickly became apparent that one of my balls was clearly had been my brothers before it was lost (markings and model). He then asked for it back, and I refused.
Now who was in the right? Clearly I have just spent an hour searching and finding balls and he has clearly lost and forgotten about it. However it is technically his property and he has brought it, if you lost any other item you would expect it to be returned if found.

Thoughts?


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## CMAC (Nov 20, 2011)

possession is nine tenths of the law


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## Oddsocks (Nov 20, 2011)

if i found a ball that clearly had a friends markings on i would return it, and hope they would do likewise. feck me its a ball.. at most if it was a new prov1 its only Â£3 max... 

one of our members come up to me a few weeks back 

" ere bazza, you play with 4 orange dots dont ya "
handed me 2 balls, one ad333, which must be a recent losts ball, and a dx3, must have been a summer loss.

both found on the same hole, our 13th. Bloody hate that hole!


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 20, 2011)

I had some Pro V's with Homer on the side that HID got for my birthday. A guy in the locker room said he'd found one and he'd give it back the next time he saw me as the clubs were in the boot. Never got it back. 

If it was clearly his just give it back. Being nice costs nothing and it wasn't as though you came back totally empty handied


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## thecraw (Nov 20, 2011)

Theft by finding, prepare for a loud knock on the door from the old bill!


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## connor (Nov 20, 2011)

thecraw said:



			Theft by finding, prepare for a loud knock on the door from the old bill!
		
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stupid question i know but is that real


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## thecraw (Nov 20, 2011)

connor said:



			stupid question i know but is that real
		
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Its a crime under Scots Law, south of the border I don't know. However would it ever see a court room over a golf ball, I very much doubt it!


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## Tommo21 (Nov 20, 2011)

The_ACE said:



			After my round on Saturday me and my mate decided to go out and go ball hunting (finding). After a rather unsuccessful hour we returned and showed our pitiful loot to the other juniors. It quickly became apparent that one of my balls was clearly had been my brothers before it was lost (markings and model). He then asked for it back, and I refused.
Now who was in the right? Clearly I have just spent an hour searching and finding balls and he has clearly lost and forgotten about it. However it is technically his property and he has brought it, if you lost any other item you would expect it to be returned if found.

Thoughts?
		
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Clearly had been your brothers ball, your words..........and you refused give him it back. He'll get you back for that.


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## Mick47 (Nov 20, 2011)

connor said:



			stupid question i know but is that real
		
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Yeah reckon it is, if you found say a gold ring on the fairway would you think you could keep it? Of course not. The only difference I can see is the value of the item, suppose what you should do is hand them into the police station , if nobody claims ownership within 6 months you can then legally lay claim to the item/s. Having said that I'd like to be a fly on the wall of the cop shop as you hand in a hatfull of Top flights.


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## The_ACE (Nov 20, 2011)

I'll probally give it back to him now due as it seems I'm a immoral tight ****. the thing is however with most juniors 90% of our balls seem to have been found and re used. Therefore we never really owned any of them. I for one know that I have only ever have brought about 2 dozen premium balls. 

It was a mint pro v1x, if it was a lesser ball he could have had it straight back ( or scuffed as it would go in the joint practice bag)


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## Oddsocks (Nov 20, 2011)

see, that said the fact he;s your brother shed a different light on it, personally, if i had a brother i would scribble he's name out, put your over the top and in your next match together...

"im playing a prov1x, one just like yours, even has your name on it just like yours did, but also has mine too."

if he is that fond of it, then it could make great gamesmanship for the first.. or around the 9th if the game is close.


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## USER1999 (Nov 20, 2011)

Lost balls belong to the course. Not sure how that works.

Lost jewelery belongs to the original owner. 

Bizarre.

If I find a ball that I know belongs to a mate, then it is fair game to play with it in the bar, balance it on my head, juggle with it, etc. Next time I play with him, I will declare that is what I am playing with, so he has to change what ever he was going to play with.

Part if the fun of golf.

Is he getting it back? Is he heck.


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## johnboywalton (Nov 20, 2011)

If your brother is bigger than you, give it back.......if you are bigger keep it


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## welshjim22 (Nov 20, 2011)

At the end of the day we all lose some balls and we all find some balls.  If a ball clearly has the markings that identify it as a friends and you happen to notice it in your bag when with that friend just give it to him.  In fact the groundstaff recently cleared out a pond at my local course and whilst walking down a fairway one of the staff drove up to my friend in a buggy and passed him a bag of his marked balls that he had lost in that said pond.  Very nice of them.


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## RobbOnTheRock (Nov 20, 2011)

Oddsocks said:



			see, that said the fact he;s your brother shed a different light on it, personally, if i had a brother i would scribble he's name out, put your over the top and in your next match together...

"im playing a prov1x, one just like yours, even has your name on it just like yours did, but also has mine too."

if he is that fond of it, then it could make great gamesmanship for the first.. or around the 9th if the game is close.
		
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Lol, that's what I would have done if it were my brother.........even if we are both in our 30's...........


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## chrisd (Nov 21, 2011)

I played two friendly knock rounds with different people a while back, and during the round, both of them used one of my lost balls ........  I wondered whether I needed to sharpen up my game?

I lost a ball 2 weeks ago on a par 3 on the Sunday and hit and hit one in the same cabbage on the Wednesday after and we found both of them - result!


Chris


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## Tommo21 (Nov 21, 2011)

Oddsocks said:



			see, that said the fact he;s your brother shed a different light on it, personally, if i had a brother i would scribble he's name out, put your over the top and in your next match together...

"im playing a prov1x, one just like yours, even has your name on it just like yours did, but also has mine too."

if he is that fond of it, then it could make great gamesmanship for the first.. or around the 9th if the game is close.
		
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Thats not gamesmanship.


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## Oddsocks (Nov 21, 2011)

Care to expand on that tommo?


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## Whee (Nov 21, 2011)

I reckon i've lost and bought the same ball at least 4 or 5 times. 

If I found a ball (other than my own), regardless of markings on it, i'd give it to a playing partner. I'm not fussed for finding balls, unless it's the one i've just spanked into the rubbish.


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## CallawayKid (Nov 21, 2011)

Found a mates ball on the course and left it in the 18th just as they were teeing off...his face was a picture trying to figure out how it got in there...!

CK


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## DaveM (Nov 21, 2011)

Any balls I find I give to the juniors or any of the kids playing, when I find them.


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## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2011)

In answer to the OP, I think the question of who "owns" lost golf balls was clarified in a reasonably well publicised legal case a few years ago, when a couple of fellas visited a local course after closing with scuba gear and recovered hundreds of balls from a lake.

A prosecution followed, and whilst the defendants argued that lost balls weren't owned by anybody, the Courts decided that they were, in fact, owned by the golf club.

So whilst every right-minded club owner or pro will never bat an eyelid if you find a ProV in the rough (do ProV users go in the rough?), you are actually committing theft every time you pick one up and put it in your bag.


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## Oddsocks (Nov 21, 2011)

So effectively every time I find a ball I should hand it in to the course........,, can't see that happening can you


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## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2011)

Oddsocks said:



			So effectively every time I find a ball I should hand it in to the course........,, can't see that happening can you
		
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You didn't actually read what I wrote, did you?!!

I said "so whilst every right-minded club owner or pro will never bat an eyelid if you find a ProV in the rough" - and of course they couldn't care less. But they would doubtless get a tad miffed if someone started removing hundreds of pounds of lake balls, as was the case in the incident I referred to.

Of course your pro won't expect you to hand every ball in that you find - but given the outcome of that case, and the legal ramifications of it, the fact remains that, technically at least, you will be committing theft by keeping them.


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## Scouser (Nov 21, 2011)

Billysboots said:



			A prosecution followed, and whilst the defendants argued that lost balls weren't owned by anybody, the Courts decided that they were, in fact, owned by the golf club.
		
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So if i lose my car in a multi story car park?!?!?

Or my phone on bus????

Ownership can no transfer because the owner can not find it...... btw yes i have "stolen" golf balls from a course .....but dont tell any one


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 21, 2011)

I rarely keep a ball long enough to remember any distinguishing marks so were the club to hold an ID parade in the bar for any of mine I'd never pick it out in a line up.

I remember the case of the guys who raided the pond being prosecuted and to be honest if the club were doing it annually (as I think they were) and making a profit selling them then of course it is theft. However I don't think any of us need fear a knock of the door in the wee small hours and a raid from the Sweeny over that Pro V you pocketed on the 9th


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## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2011)

Scouser said:



			So if i lose my car in a multi story car park?!?!?

Or my phone on bus????

Ownership can no transfer because the owner can not find it...... btw yes i have "stolen" golf balls from a course .....but dont tell any one
		
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Oh dear. I really didn't want this to descend into a debate about the Theft Act and the judicial system in the UK, but if you insist on poking fun, then I'm going to insist on stating a few facts.

The first one being that once cases have progressed through the Courts in this country, there will be times when some legal findings create precedents, and the rulings in some cases are so significant that they become what are known as Stated Cases, where the outcome of subsequent similar cases in the decades which follow will rely on the earlier finding.

I do not for one moment think the incident I referred to will be a Stated Case, but it will either follow an earlier precedent or will have set one itself - that being that abandoned golf balls on a course are the property of the club. Don't argue the toss with me - dispute it with the UK Courts. It is a fact. 

And please don't even get me started on your observation that "ownership cannot transfer because the owner cannot find it" - that is, with the greatest respect, codswallop. There are instances under the Theft Act where legal ownership of property can be abandoned by the owner, and if that property is subsequently found by another person it can be appropriated (that's someone assuming the rights of the owner, by the way) without any offence of theft being committed. Ownership, as such, will have been transferred, precisely because the original owner could not find it. But it does only apply to certain types of property.

The bottom line is that no golf club owner or pro is going to make a formal complaint if someone finds a few balls during their round and pops them in their bag. I said as much in my first post. It does not alter the fact that technically the finder commits theft. Again, argue it out elsewhere if you want to.

If you want to test the facts, pop down to your golf course under cover of darkness and have away several hundred abandoned golf balls. In those circumstances I doubt you'll find your club owner or committee will be quite as understanding. Then you'll find out what the law says in relation to ownership of lost golf balls on courses - and I think you'll find it will be an expensive lesson.


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## Scouser (Nov 21, 2011)

Sorry Billy i was not poking fun and I agree with your last thread.  I know a little about the law process for the setting of precedents and the like and am also aware that the transfer of proerty can be done if no one claims items that are lost with in a set time scale for example if I hand a wallet in to the police station and no one claims it and there is no way to ID the owner I will get a phone call to come and claim it.

If I find it in the street and keep it surely that is (i forget the terminology) theft

If my remark came across as flippant I am sorry it was not my intent 

But back to the OP if you find my ball on the course please post it back to me!


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## Billysboots (Nov 21, 2011)

Scouser said:



			If my remark came across as flippant I am sorry it was not my intent
		
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And if my long winded rant came across as a load of sanctimonious rubbish I, too, apologise! Bad day at the office, not that it's any excuse!!


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## Scouser (Nov 21, 2011)

Billysboots said:



			And if my long winded rant came across as a load of sanctimonious rubbish I, too, apologise! Bad day at the office, not that it's any excuse!!
		
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Awww Im feeling the love


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## USER1999 (Nov 21, 2011)

Paff. I hate these love ins.


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## Scouser (Nov 21, 2011)

murphthemog said:



			Paff. I hate these love ins.
		
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Awww dont be like that....there is plenty to go around


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 21, 2011)

Scouser said:



			Awww dont be like that....there is plenty to go around
		
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It'll end in tears when we revisit GPS or not!!


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## Scouser (Nov 21, 2011)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It'll end in tears when we revisit GPS or not!!
		
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Nah the love is stronger than GPS..... but long drives....thats another story


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