# Clubs still in the Dark Ages



## LCVreg (Aug 8, 2012)

As a society organiser of over 20 years, and with over 300 hundred courses under my belt, I am still amazed at the number of clubs who still seem to be in the era of Dickens and still expect us who dare to visit their establishments to doff their hats and lick shoes etc.......thankfully fewer and fewer, and many who just a few years ago were very much like this have dramatically turned themselves around with new managers and modern committees, one such in my neck of the woods that is now very welcoming and forthcoming being the excellent Stoneham GC in Southampton. However, thare are others that are still basically a bastion of all that is bad with a members club - I have a few names, but let us hear others that are still in the 19th C from up and down the country!!


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

A club local to my house, Hillingdon Golf club (only a 9 hole course) has a nice little bar / clubhouse, where we held a funeral for my nan.

Pro is 19th Century thinking: They raised the flag outside the clubhouse to half mast which was a nice touch.

Con of 19th Century thining: We were all asked not to use our mobile phones inside the clubhouse. No reason given. We went back once or twice over Christmas, and the club captain would come round to people and ask them no to use their mobile phone. 

I'm 25 - maybe I'm from a different generation and all that, but isn't a mobile phone ban a bit too much...?


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## Liverbirdie (Aug 8, 2012)

Any club that still insist on white socks to the knee, if wearing shorts.


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## USER1999 (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			A club local to my house, Hillingdon Golf club (only a 9 hole course) has a nice little bar / clubhouse, where we held a funeral for my nan.

Pro is 19th Century thinking: They raised the flag outside the clubhouse to half mast which was a nice touch.

Con of 19th Century thining: We were all asked not to use our mobile phones inside the clubhouse. No reason given. We went back once or twice over Christmas, and the club captain would come round to people and ask them no to use their mobile phone. 

I'm 25 - maybe I'm from a different generation and all that, but isn't a mobile phone ban a bit too much...?
		
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No. Mobiles should not be used in any club house.

I come to the golf club to get away from phones, work, etc.

How about talking to the guys you played with, and put the phone away?


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			Con of 19th Century thining: We were all asked not to use our mobile phones inside the clubhouse. No reason given. We went back once or twice over Christmas, and the club captain would come round to people and ask them no to use their mobile phone. 

I'm 25 - maybe I'm from a different generation and all that, but isn't a mobile phone ban a bit too much...?
		
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Not for me it's not. The clubhouse is supposed to be a relaxing atmosphere after your round or somewhere to go for a bit of P&Q. Someone talking loudly in to their mobile is, at best, antisocial and at worst, rude. 
Call me outdated all you like but there are certain places that mobiles just don't fit, if you need to make a call that urgently, go outside.


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

But surely, in the 21st Century, sending a text to the missus to let her know you're getting another round in before heading home isn't anti-social?

Why are golf clubs exempt from modernisation?


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			But surely, in the 21st Century, sending a text to the missus to let her know you're getting another round in before heading home isn't anti-social?

Why are golf clubs exempt from modernisation?
		
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It's not about modernisation, it's about courtesy to other people. Golf is, after all, supposed to be a social game. 
Clubs have, in my opinion, modernised where it is essential but why would I want my clubhouse to feel like the local boozer?
Again, if that text or call is just quick, what's wrong with getting off your arse and going outside to send/make that call/text?


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

Just seems a bit strange to make a point of stopping something that, let's be honest, is neither here nor there! Do you stop people in the street and ask them not to make calls when sitting at bus stops? Or walking through parks?

It feels like snobbery, no wonder people don't want to take up the sport!


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			Just seems a bit strange to make a point of stopping something that, let's be honest, is neither here nor there! Do you stop people in the street and ask them not to make calls when sitting at bus stops? Or walking through parks?

It feels like snobbery, no wonder people don't want to take up the sport!
		
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What? You are comparing the enclosed atmosphere of a golf club to a bus stop or a park? Don't be ridiculous man. Out in public, fill your boots. But in a clubhouse that many use for peace and quiet in an environment that _can_ be controlled (unlike the park which is a fully open and PUBLIC place). I don't personally know many people that frequent bus stops for a social quiet evening. 

Snobbery? Because they wouldn't let you use your phone? Again, ridiculous. Snobbery is not even allowing you in the door because you don't fit the entry criteria, or you don't earn enough, or you don't drive a certain marque of car... Not disallowing the use of mobile phones to give their members some peace and quiet.


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			But surely, in the 21st Century, sending a text to the missus to let her know you're getting another round in before heading home isn't anti-social?

Why are golf clubs exempt from modernisation?
		
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If your on such a short lead then text her as you leave to say your on your way home.

Its got nothing to do with modernisation, its a social game and a private members club is a place of historic standings where respect to fellow members and visiting players in a more peaceful environment comes before the needs of individuals so either accept it or join the local pub darts team where you can listen to all the mad ring tones loudly going off every second.

We place our mobiles on the table but there on vibrate only and if they go off and we need to answer them we go onto the balcony, toilets or changing room, is that such a hardship?


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

If a course is open to the public, then why is it that much different to another public place? Clubhouses I've been in have Sky Sports going in the background, have larger groups of men laughing and joking, so how can the odd mobile phone call ruin that? Bans on mobile phones make it feel less like a place where you can enjoy the sport you love to play, and more like a place where they won't let you in the door because you don't fit the criteria.

All I know is, since I took up the sport in my adult life (I played when I was a kid at 12 / 13 before everyone had a smartphone), mobile phones, Golf GPS tools, electric trolleys that are controlled by an app on your iPhone, and all that jazz has openly been available. Even pro shops now encourage you to go online and book your tee time. It seems very strange, and dated, to then walk into a clubhouse where a simple mobile phone cannot be used. 

I'm yet to see the day where someone talking on a mobile phone, honestly, stops people from enjoying a drink in the clubhouse!


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## PieMan (Aug 8, 2012)

My place has a pretty relaxed attitude to phones in the clubhouse, i.e. on silent or vibrate, but if you actually want to speak to someone then it must be done outside out of respect to others using the clubhouse. I think that this works well and is a sensible attitude to modern communications. 

In terms of clubhouse / course rules, then I am very much of the opinion that any visitor must respect the rules / codes of conduct set by the club. If anyone disagrees with a clubs policies then there is a very simple answer - don't play there!


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			Just seems a bit strange to make a point of stopping something that, let's be honest, is neither here nor there! Do you stop people in the street and ask them not to make calls when sitting at bus stops? Or walking through parks?

It feels like snobbery, no wonder people don't want to take up the sport!
		
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I suppose you should be able to wear your jeans also as they cost more than a pair of normal trousers from mark's? or how about expensive trainers rather than a pair of Clarke's shoe's?

Yes there are standards that's why there called private members clubs.  

Snobbery, don't make me laugh, its called respect and not having a selfish attitude.


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

Fish said:



			Its got nothing to do with modernisation, its a social game and a private members club is a place of historic standings
		
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The clubs I play at invite non members to play. If they don't want 'commoners' like myself with our ghastly mobile phones, maybe they shouldn't invite 'just anyone' to play at the course?


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			Bans on mobile phones make it feel less like a place where you can enjoy the sport you love to play, and more like a place where they won't let you in the door because you don't fit the criteria.
		
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Where is the correlation in that statement?

Are you saying that after you have played a round of golf you can't enjoy yourself without the need to have your mobile phone in your hand.  I think you need some better playing partners that will talk to you then, or is that why they don't because your talking cr@p all the time.

There are rules and some of them won't change and for me who owns my own business and has the golf club as an escape from phones, messages & emails will always support.


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## Snelly (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			The clubs I play at invite non members to play. If they don't want 'commoners' like myself with our ghastly mobile phones, maybe they shouldn't invite 'just anyone' to play at the course?
		
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I think you have hit the nail on the head there.  You are a bit common and find it hard to fit into an environment where there are rules governing courtesy to others.  

Perhaps best to just go with the flow and do as you are told?


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

My club has a relaxed atmosphere, a good visitor rate and welcome anyone. However, the ban on using mobiles is in place as stated several times, not out of snobbery or some backwards thinking that you seem to be drivveling about but out of respect to those who want peace and quiet. 
If the club you frequent or have visited has a pub like atmosphere then great for you, you have found your mecca. Personally (and many join Muckhart for the same reason), if I want a night in a noisy pub style atmosphere, well blow me down, I'll go to the pub. 
I actually enjoy a quiet sit down and a coffee after my round with my playing group or the guys and girls I know at the club, having a chat and not getting interrupted by someone's need to be in constant communication with all and sundry. 
I don't even take my mobile in with me, the wife knows where I am and can call the club office if anything drastic happens.


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			The clubs I play at invite non members to play. If they don't want 'commoners' like myself with our ghastly mobile phones, maybe they shouldn't invite 'just anyone' to play at the course?
		
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Non-members are fine at most clubs, you just have to respect their rules if you want to enjoy their course and facilities.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 8, 2012)

I like to think I have a pretty simplistic view to mobiles on the course/in the clubhouse.

If you are so busy/important that you can't afford to be without your phone, what are you doing at the golf club anyway??


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## 6inchcup (Aug 8, 2012)

i recently left a more modern club that had at sometimes an anything goes sort of feel,phones in the lounge,golf attire in the lounge after 8,loud and sometimes intoxicated society players in the snooker room etc etc,to a more traditional and in my own opinion a better club and am enjoying the atmosphere better, NO phones in the club house,smart casual in the lounge,shirt tie and club blazer for presentation nights and members only in the main lounge at certain times,this is what i joined for,is it elitist and snobbish probably but in one respect that is why i moved.


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

Snelly said:



			I think you have hit the nail on the head there.  You are a bit common and find it hard to fit into an environment where there are rules governing courtesy to others.  

Perhaps best to just go with the flow and do as you are told?
		
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The thread is about clubs stuck in the 19th Century. Not allowing mobile phones, to me, seems like a very 19th Century thing. As I mentioned earlier, being 25, technology like mobile phones are just part of my daily life, like they are for 99% of 25 year olds in the UK.

I also use the Golfshot GPS app on my phone to give me distances from the center of the green when out on the course. I use it to record my scores for a round, rather than keeping hoards of score cards in a box under my bed. Having a mobile phone has become and integral part of my game. 

Sitting in clubhouse, minding my own business, sending or receiving a text message or two, I'm not hurting anyone. Yes, my phone is on silent. I understand that having a ridiculous ringtone will grind peoples gears. I respect that. All I said was, when people ask you to put your phone away, when you're not causing a scene, or being loud and obnoxious, it feels a little dated. 

I play a few courses regularly, and have never had a problem. At Hillingdon Golf club where I was asked to put my phone away, the Captain made a speech at the yearly carol concert fund raiser about bringing new members to the club. It is strange to think that clubs like this want new members, but have rules that push young people like myself away. Bit of a catch 22.


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## Fader (Aug 8, 2012)

I'm currently a member at a public course though as i've stated before looking for aprivate one for ease of use.  But even my public course has rules on mobiles. Nothing wrong with it if it rings as long as you take the call out in the foyer or on the balcony,  nothing to do with snobbery, archaic rules or wanting to live in a time where Ceaser ruled, simply a case of being courteous to others and respecting their right to relax without someone gobbing off down a mobile.

I've got a mobile laptop all the works but wouldn't dream of using in the golf club as I want to chat with the guys i've just played with. If you need text her in doors or report in so to speak do it on the way to the club house or on your visit to the gents, wheres the hardship in that. Mobiles are killing the art of conversation as it is


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

At 33, I don't view myself as old. I work in the telecomms and broadcast industry so technology is an integral part of my day to day life. 
Using your phone as an integral part of your game is a PERSONAL choice, not everyone does. So just because you feel that you are uber modern and up to date doesn't mean the world around you should fall in to step and if not they are "outdated". 
Oh and btw, no one knew what a mobile was in the 19th century (or a normal phone for that matter). Not even until the late 20th century for mobiles, so I would probably hazard a guess that there was no, no mobiles rule, in _any_ clubhouse until at least the late 1990's and probably for most until the early part of _this _&#8203;century.


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## Fish (Aug 8, 2012)

Golfers should be strongly advised not to use mobile phones as DMD's. 

If  they have a utility, which most do, that breaches rule 14:3 then the  penalty is disqualification from any qualifying competition.

The England Golf 2012 hard card  pretty much bans their use because of the wording in paragraph 10.

In my opinion and that shared by Hendo, if all the tight @rse app users either done without or  went and got a proper DMD then there would be no issue regarding taking a mobile phone onto a course. 

Its like taking a  badminton racket to a tennis match !!! Just get a tennis racket and  play properly!

I can feel a case of cold turkey coming on as the mobile has to be left in the car for 5 hours.


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Oh and btw, no one knew what a mobile was in the 19th century (or a normal phone for that matter). Not even until the late 20th century for mobiles, so I would probably hazard a guess that there was no, no mobiles rule, in _any_ clubhouse until at least the late 1990's and probably for most until the early part of _this _&#8203;century.
		
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What?? Mobile phones weren't invented back then?? I thought they'd been around since at least the 1600's?


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			What?? Mobile phones weren't invented back then?? I thought they'd been around since at least the 1600's?
		
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Indeed, so comparing a rule banning mobiles to 19th century attitudes is as ridiculous as my pointing that out.


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

I'm only pulling yer leg :ears:

It's all a matter of opinion. In 100 years time, people will have something else to argue over. I just hope by that time we can all tweet about it from the clubhouse


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## BoadieBroadus (Aug 8, 2012)

our club allows phones in the clubhouse and there are no problems with someone sending the odd text on the phone. if you want to take a call, however, you are asked to do it outside.

i'd agree that banning someone from sending texts in the clubhouse is a touch extreme. but i often reflect that the clubhouse at the golf club is the only place where i am free from the irritation of listening to one side of a conversation on a mobile phone. and the one place where if someone does take a call or wanders in with their hat on, then there are plenty of people who will swiftly offer correcting advice to the person offending...


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## Imurg (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			It is strange to think that clubs like this want new members, but have rules that push young people like myself away.
		
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Damn it - I'm over 30.

Must throw my phone away instantly - not allowed one you see...........

Do you think it's only Young people who have mobiles?
Virtually everyone over the age of 10 has one these days, they are the most anti-social device invented apart from the ipod.

If you can't sit in a clubhouse for an hour without reaching for your phone then it's a sad day.....
By all means have it on silent but if you need to use it just go outside - where's the problem with that?
I wouldn't want the whole club earwigging a private call.........

And if you simply must use your phone, then simply find a club taht lets you use it wherever you are - Good Luck on that one....


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Must throw my phone away instantly - not allowed one you see...........
		
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Now you're just twisting my words!


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## USER1999 (Aug 8, 2012)

I know the club in question very well. I was a member there a while ago. Snobby it is not. They have moved so far from what I consider a golf club to be, I left. If you have issues there, may be you are not cut out for golf?


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## richart (Aug 8, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Damn it - I'm over 30.

Must throw my phone away instantly - not allowed one you see...........

Do you think it's only Young people who have mobiles?
Virtually everyone over the age of 10 has one these days
		
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Oh dear I am letting the oldies down.


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## TerryA (Aug 8, 2012)

I used to be a points member at another club in Norfolk - i'm also a full member at Bawburgh. I took a guest with me to play at this other club and was told he could not come in to the bar with trainers - they were not trainers but casual canvass shoes - nor could he play whilst wearing black sports socks - He could wear them with trousers but not shorts! I checked the website and it was cerainly ambiguous! 
I wrote in and complained at the attitude and was basically told to leave if I didn't like it - I left. The club has been losing membership at the rate of over 10% per year for the last few years and is now apparently in severe financial difficulty and may well close before the end of this year - is it any wonder!!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 8, 2012)

If public places like train carriages have 'quiet zones' where a mobile isn't allowed (although no-one ever takes any notice!!) then I don't see why golf clubs shouldn't be able to ban them also. If someone has the hump about having to go outside to answer a call then they are just downright selfish and lazy.......end of!


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## richart (Aug 8, 2012)

drive4show said:



			If public places like train carriages have 'quiet zones' where a mobile isn't allowed (although no-one ever takes any notice!!) then I don't see why golf clubs shouldn't be able to ban them also. If someone has the hump about having to go outside to answer a call then they are just downright selfish and lazy.......end of!
		
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I thought quiet zones on trains were places where people using mobile phones could hear their conversation better.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 8, 2012)

LCV

Your thread appears to have been hijacked, apologies for that.

To get back to your original question, plenty of these clubs still exist in the Surrey/Berks area. Swinley Forest is probably the best example, it's only in the last few years they have introduced handicaps, their members never used to need them as the club doesn't (still the case?) have any competitions. West Hill is another where you have to change into jacket and tie for lunch, even on a baking hot day. Same at Rye where you can't apply for membership, you have to be nominated and seconded by 10 (yes...TEN) other members.


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## Imurg (Aug 8, 2012)

richart said:



			Oh dear I am letting the oldies down.

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I did say "virtually" Rich - I understand that you're stuck in the 80's but I hear there's a good Therapist near you......:thup:


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			If you have issues there, may be you are not cut out for golf?
		
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I don't see how using a mobile phone at the clubhouse means you're not cut out for Golf?


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## GreiginFife (Aug 8, 2012)

Imurg said:



			I did say "virtually" Rich - I understand that you're stuck in the 80's but I hear there's a good Therapist near you......:thup:
		
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He can always use www.therapistfinder.com.... :rofl:


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## LCVreg (Aug 8, 2012)

Yep, it all seems to have gone "Mobile" mad - as far as Mobiles are concerned, well I do know one member who's life was saved on the course by having a mobile! - clubhouse, probably best not too, but the question as asked was not particular to any pedantic usage of phones, shoes etc etc, it was more about exactly as you mentioned, the attitudes, the nit picking little clothing rules, the not opening the catering or bar to 11.00am etc etc etc

e attitude, the 



drive4show said:



			LCV

Your thread appears to have been hijacked, apologies for that.

To get back to your original question, plenty of these clubs still exist in the Surrey/Berks area. Swinley Forest is probably the best example, it's only in the last few years they have introduced handicaps, their members never used to need them as the club doesn't (still the case?) have any competitions. West Hill is another where you have to change into jacket and tie for lunch, even on a baking hot day. Same at Rye where you can't apply for membership, you have to be nominated and seconded by 10 (yes...TEN) other members.
		
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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Not for me it's not. The clubhouse is supposed to be a relaxing atmosphere after your round or somewhere to go for a bit of P&Q. Someone talking loudly in to their mobile is, at best, antisocial and at worst, rude. 
Call me outdated all you like but there are certain places that mobiles just don't fit, if you need to make a call that urgently, go outside.
		
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+1 on that.  No texting either.  

We have WiFi in our quiet lounge (primarily as a facility to attract business breakfast/lunches/meetings), and you are allowed to use you mobile (or indeed laptop/tablet/iPingPad etc) for internet access in there (no voice comms though).  I do though get pretty pi**ed off if he allows certain members get away with using the mobiles - these members tend to be those who somehow think that they are better than the rest of us and that to whom the clubhouse rules needn't apply.

Our Steward is a dress-stickler (e.g. only allows our younger lady members to wear dresses in the clubhouse if they are above the knee).  One little thing about our dress code that irks me a little (though I always end up complying) is the 'shirts tucked in' rule - when I am wearing a shirt designed to be worn not tucked-in (polo shirts *should *be tucked in).  Hats (inc 'baseball' caps and visors) should *never* be worn inside the clubhouse.

'Why are golf clubs exempt from modernisation?' in general I don't think that they are.  However respect for the views of fellow members is I think important.


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## Dodger (Aug 8, 2012)

It appears I am lucky to be able to go to 2 clubs that are extremely relaxed and have a modern day approach on how to treat members and visitors alike.

Can I ask what difference there is to using a mobile to speak to using the phone that is on the corner of the club bar?


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## dufferman (Aug 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			It appears I am lucky to be able to go to 2 clubs that are extremely relaxed and have a modern day approach on how to treat members and visitors alike.

Can I ask what difference there is to using a mobile to speak to using the phone that is on the corner of the club bar?
		
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Finally!


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## FairwayDodger (Aug 8, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Our Steward is a dress-stickler (e.g. only allows our younger lady members to wear dresses in the clubhouse if they are *above *the knee).
		
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Interesting dress code at your place. See through tops required as well?


No mobiles at my club either - OK to have it with you but go outside or into the lobby to take/make calls. Seems like a good compromise to me.

I'd love the dress code to be relaxed - don't see a problem with jeans and trainers in the clubhouse. The captain looked at me like I was mad when I suggested that... I guess plenty on here would agree with him.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Can I ask what difference there is to using a mobile to speak to using the phone that is on the corner of the club bar?
		
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You said it - it's (or it was) on the corner of the club bar i.e. out of the way - and generally wouldn't be receiving many incoming calls.  In most cases the phone for member use would not be in the clubhouse bar/lounge in any case (unlike your public bar phone).  

Further - that one phone - even were it in the clubhouse bar - would rarely ring and it certainly wouldn't be ringing in many places at once scattered around the place - interrupting conversations etc.  But then IMO mobile phones are incredibly anti-social beasts - as antisocial as many users of them are rude.  And I am not the only member who will pull up another member or a visitor who is about to or is already engaged in using one in the clubhouse.  Call me a technotard, a troglodyte if you will - on this matter I don't care two hoots if you do.


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## Dodger (Aug 8, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			You said it - it's (or it was) on the corner of the club bar i.e. out of the way - and generally wouldn't be receiving many incoming calls.  In most cases the phone for member use would not be in the clubhouse bar/lounge in any case (unlike your public bar phone).  

Further - that one phone - even were it in the clubhouse bar - would rarely ring and it certainly wouldn't be ringing in many places at once scattered around the place - interrupting conversations etc.  But then IMO mobile phones are incredibly anti-social beasts - as antisocial as many users of them are rude.  And I am not the only member who will pull up another member or a visitor who is about to or is already engaged in using one in the clubhouse.  Call me a technotard, a troglodyte if you will - on this matter I don't care two hoots if you do.
		
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Not at either of my places....corner of the bar is the middle of the room.....


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## North Mimms (Aug 8, 2012)

Last I heard, Beaconsfield were still insisting that societies playing more than 18 holes with lunch between...chaps had to change into jacket and tie!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

drive4show said:



			West Hill is another where you have to change into jacket and tie for lunch, even on a baking hot day
		
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The only place I've had to do that was Lindrick - over 20 yrs ago mind.  Me and my mate had 36 holes, and for lunch had a plate of sandwiches which were served to us in their dining room.  Just me and him sat in our jackets and ties with our egg and cress at the end of this b***y enormous table in the cavernous dining room - quite amusing it was actually.  Silver service too - and waitress very nicely attired if I recall correctly.


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## BeachGolfer (Aug 8, 2012)

drive4show said:



			Same at Rye where you can't apply for membership, you have to be nominated and seconded by 10 (yes...TEN) other members.
		
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Recently turned down an invitation to play Rye owing to having to play foursomes. They still only allow two balls in play in any one group - ironic that you need a members invite to play and then only get to play half a game??


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## USER1999 (Aug 8, 2012)

dufferman said:



			I don't see how using a mobile phone at the clubhouse means you're not cut out for Golf?
		
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There is a lot more to golf than swinging a stick at a ball, and holing a few putts. The club in question has survived for over 120 years, and seen many changes. May be one day it will allow use of mobiles (for what ever purpose), but currently it does not. Many others are similar. More than are not, probably. Last time I was there I thought the place had gone so far down hill in their quest to attract new members it was actually having the opposite effect.

When I join a club, being allowed to use comms devices in the bar is very low on my, and others list of priorities. It is clearly quite high up on your list. I wish you luck finding a club which you wish to join. I'm guessing it won't ever be a members club.


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## Foxholer (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't have a problem with the 'no phones' rule, nor the Jacket (and Tie)  for lunch - provided I know about it ahead of time. Swinley only requires Jacket (tie not required). Still prefer the Hankley (golf clothes fine) format when a second round will be played - as there's 30mins of faffing about involved.

Also prepared to comply with the 'long socks' rule, though would prefer to be allowed short ones. Definitely not keen on coloured socks with shorts - whether short or long!

I actually play a lot at a club that has NO dress code rules. Syso jeans and trainers would actually be allowed on the course. This doesn't happen and the only guy that wears jeans is the owner! However, every mobile phone user goes outside to make/answer calls. Texting/internet is not a problem, though loud ringtones provide embarassed grabbing to send to silent.

The club across the road from the one described above strikes me as one of the stuffy old ones. On Council owned land so has to have 'public' days and the members seem to object to visitors in a snobby way! Pro-shop attitude is condescending, Visitors changing is a shed, not encouraged to enter club-house and all the disruptive maintenance seems to be carried out on the 'Public' days. This is in distinct contrast to Bearwood Lakes and others where you are a 'member for the day'.

So quite relaxed about any club's rules. My view is that if you don't like the rules, don't go/join!


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## t0m (Aug 8, 2012)

yes i should be allowed to wear my trainers and jeans, they look a lot better than the way most people wear there trousers, up around there ears and to short at the bottom



Fish said:



			I suppose you should be able to wear your jeans also as they cost more than a pair of normal trousers from mark's? or how about expensive trainers rather than a pair of Clarke's shoe's?

Yes there are standards that's why there called private members clubs.  

Snobbery, don't make me laugh, its called respect and not having a selfish attitude.
		
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## Slab (Aug 8, 2012)

Clubs can play lip-service to whatever standards they like but I wonder how sincere they really are in these standards or do they simply use this as a tool to attract like minded members, for example clubs who ban caps indoors, do they also really list and enforce a club rule that you must hold the door open for others (& chastise those who donâ€™t) or haul you up for putting your elbows on the table when eating? 

You canâ€™t be polite some of the time can you!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 8, 2012)

BeachGolfer said:



			Recently turned down an invitation to play Rye owing to having to play foursomes. They still only allow two balls in play in any one group - ironic that you need a members invite to play and then only get to play half a game??
		
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They only insist on foursomes in the morning, you can play 2balls in the afternoon. We got round it by playing the Presidents course in the morning as a 4ball then went out on the main course as a couple of 2balls in the afternoon. If you get invited again you should go, it's olde worlde golf. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but charming all the same.


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## Foxholer (Aug 8, 2012)

drive4show said:



			They only insist on foursomes in the morning, you can play 2balls in the afternoon. We got round it by playing the Presidents course in the morning as a 4ball then went out on the main course as a couple of 2balls in the afternoon. If you get invited again you should go, it's olde worlde golf. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but charming all the same.
		
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Played with a double President's Putter winner acquaintance there a few years ago. Definitely worth the trip. Greens were stunning - even though it was between Xmas and New Year!

Great course (and no I didn't stay on the 4th fairway!), but indeed olde-worlde-ly! A Foursomes group, that started on the 10th, sped away from us!


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## chris661 (Aug 8, 2012)

I really don't get why folk moan about rules (however antiquated they may seem) at a golf club. If you don't like it don't go and play or be a member at it. I am half thinking about moving clubs due to circumstances and the one I am thinking of is a lot more blazer and tie kind of place but it is a cracking course and slightly more out of my way but I *CHOOSE* to go there so have to stick by the rules.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 8, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Great course (and no I didn't stay on the 4th fairway!)
		
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You're in good company......neither did I   :rofl:  (what's wrong with the smileys????)


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 8, 2012)

My mum is seriously ill so I have my mobile with me constantly at the moment but when I play golf it is on silent in the bag and in the clubhouse. If I need to text or make/receive calls I'll go outside. It is common courtesy same as smokers are now expected to go out as well. 

I want to enjoy a drink and a chat with my partners and the usual crowd after a round and not listento individuals or seveal members talking loudly on their phone. I don't think that  is snobbish, simply good manners in the same way you'd be considerate on the course to your partners.

I guess if you are looking at antiquated rules, then Wimbledon Common/London Scottish has one where you have to wear pillar red tops on the course (no other colour allowed). Its a by-law of playing on the course and has been in place since the club opened in 190


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 8, 2012)

Homer

Don't you think that the red top thingy is quite charming in it's own way? If nothing else, it gives the club a unique selling point and gets people talking about the place, that can't be a bad thing.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It is common courtesy same as smokers are now expected to go out as well
		
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Isn't it the law?  I haven't been *anywhere* 'public' since the ban came in where there was smoking indoors.  Since you mentioned smoking - why do (some) smokers think that fag ends are not litter and therefore can be discarded anywhere on the course.  I don't drop sweet wrappers so why do smokers drop fag ends?  For non-smokers fag ends are both unsightly and frankly fairly disgusting things to pick up off the course (as I do for any litter I come across).


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## Airlie_Andy (Aug 8, 2012)

I do find some of these attitudes odd. How is listening to someone talking on a mobile phone anymore rude/annoying/selfish then listening to 2 or more people having a conversation? How is someone sending or reading a text or using the Internet on the phone (if the phone is on silent) anymore rude/annoying/selfish then someone sat quietly reading the paper or a book? Providing the phone is on silent what is the issue here? I sometimes go to the club on my own for a practice and then pop into the clubhouse for a drink and maybe a bite to eat, if nobody is about to talk to I'll use my phone to maybe send a few texts and even read this very forum to keep myself entertained. What if I took a golf monthly magazine instead? Is that really any different? A lot of the criticism about mobile phones seems to just be based on the fact it's a mobile rather than what it's actually being used for and any perceived impact. 

If someone sat on there own silently using a mobile phone while they have a quiet drink really irks people but someone sat reading a magazine while they have a quiet drink is fine then I can't help thinking this is more about the perception of the "sort" of people that use a phone rather than any negative impact it supposedly has.


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## North Mimms (Aug 8, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I guess if you are looking at antiquated rules, then Wimbledon Common/London Scottish has one where you have to wear pillar red tops on the course (no other colour allowed). Its a by-law of playing on the course and has been in place since the club opened in 190
		
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The red shirt/jumper rule at Wimbledon Common is a safety thing.
The public has right of way on the common and golfers have to wear red so the the nannys and children can see us coming!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Slab said:



			...for example clubs who ban caps indoors...
		
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  Difference with this compared with many 'dress rules' is that wearing a hat indoors is generally understood (not just in golf clubs) to be 'poor etiquette' and will irritate some members.  And why should members be irritated when it is so simple to adhere to the accepted etiquette norm! If folk don't know that it is poor etiquette - then they can be told.  In a previous club some members would exclaim 'drinks for all' if someone came into the bar wearing a hat (as much to make the point and indirectly telling the miscreant to remove headgear as actually demanding that drinks be bought)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Airlie_Andy said:



			How is someone sending or reading a text or using the Internet on the phone (if the phone is on silent) anymore rude/annoying/selfish then someone sat quietly reading the paper or a book?
		
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Well - it's not.  If I was by myself and I sat down beside another member who was reading a newspaper or magazine - I would expect that member to stop what he/she was doing/reading and engage in conversation - if only to allow me to say 'it's OK, keep reading' or something to that effect.  It's just polite.

And if you don't understand why mobile phone conversations can be irritating, then you won't understand why some of us can find them irritating.  But some of us do.  And therefore in the context of a club members should  not *have*&#8203; to put up with them.


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## bigslice (Aug 8, 2012)

mmm imo its all about respect, in our clubhouse im sure you cant use your phone. but its in my pocket on silent (in fact its on silent before i enter the golf club incase it goes off while going by some of the holes) im fine with that. i take my cap off after the match to shake hands with my partner. im only 39 years old but taught respect and manners fae my papa and parents. when my papa visited us he would always take his cap off. its all about respect and manners, simple. yes this is 2012 and times are a changing but manners and respect cost nothing. 
now if the club changed to being able to use a phone, well thats fine with me. i can move the times but i will still take my cap off and say please and thank you. imo


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

bigslice said:



			...its all about respect and manners, simple. yes this is 2012 and times are a changing but manners and respect cost nothing. now if the club changed to being able to use a phone, well thats fine with me. i can move the times but i will still take my cap off and say please and thank you. imo

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I doff my cap to you sir in respect of that post.


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## Dodger (Aug 8, 2012)

Am not arguing but can anyone tell me why you should take yer bunnet off to shake hand or not wear it indoors??


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Am not arguing but can anyone tell me why you should take yer bunnet off to shake hand or not wear it indoors??
		
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Understood etiquette and in respect to others


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## Neddy (Aug 8, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And if you don't understand why mobile phone conversations can be irritating, then you won't understand why some of us can find them irritating.  But some of us do.  And therefore in the context of a club members should  not *have*&#8203; to put up with them.
		
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For me....fourball engaged in loud "everyone can hear every word" conversation in the corner - highly irritating.

Bloke in the corner making a quick phone call to his wife - slightly irritating.

If I was a member of a club does that mean I have a right to say "that lot in the corner are really annoying me, can you tell them to shut up please?"

No, and nor should I....just like someone shouldn't be told not to send a quick text or check the football score. What other people are doing actually has nothing to do with me.

I consider myself a respectable and courteous individual so what does it matter if i wear my trainers or send a text?

Why do golf clubs feel the need to tell people what to wear, how to behave and when they can or cannot go to the toilet?! It's like being at school....we are adults, can we not be trusted to behave reasonably and have manners without being told exactly what to do?

Live and let live....


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## stevek1969 (Aug 8, 2012)

Our club has change dover the years they knew they had to,it was a Gin Palace for many a year but not so much now. All the old dodgers who nurse a pot of tea between 6 of them got to the main lounge and the working class money spenders ie me go to the members bar which has Sky Sports and a pool table.

But if you want to use your phone you go outside ,simples ,its the same rule for everyone.


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## bigslice (Aug 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Am not arguing but can anyone tell me why you should take yer bunnet off to shake hand or not wear it indoors??
		
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respect and manners, if i go into a church or chapel (see what i did there) and was wearing a cap, bunnet, or hat i would take it off


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## Dodger (Aug 8, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Understood etiquette and in respect to others
		
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I know that but where does it come from and why?

Old stiff upper lip stuff?


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## BeachGolfer (Aug 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Am not arguing but can anyone tell me why you should take yer bunnet off to shake hand or not wear it indoors??
		
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Threads full of WUMs. Shut it down.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Neddy said:



			For me....fourball engaged in loud "everyone can hear every word" conversation in the corner - highly irritating.

Bloke in the corner making a quick phone call to his wife - slightly irritating.

If I was a member of a club does that mean I have a right to say "that lot in the corner are really annoying me, can you tell them to shut up please?"

No, and nor should I....just like someone shouldn't be told not to send a quick text or check the football score. What other people are doing actually has nothing to do with me.

I consider myself a respectable and courteous individual so what does it matter if i wear my trainers or send a text?

Why do golf clubs feel the need to tell people what to wear, how to behave and when they can or cannot go to the toilet?! It's like being at school....we are adults, can we not be trusted to behave reasonably and have manners without being told exactly what to do?

Live and let live....
		
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Some of what you say I agree with.  Unfortunately as soon as 'rules' are relaxed some will take advantage of the relaxation or really push the new boundaries - and you end up with a mess - and lots of unhappy and squabbling members.  Is it really worth it?  And yes - I too get very irritated by the loud four ball discussing the length of their d***s in the corner (not literally but you get my drift).

The bit I disagree with you is _'...What other people are doing actually has nothing to do with me'_ well...in a members club it does.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			I know that but where does it come from and why?

Old stiff upper lip stuff?
		
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Doesn't matter - that's how it is.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 8, 2012)

Neddy said:



			For me....fourball engaged in loud "everyone can hear every word" conversation in the corner - highly irritating.

Bloke in the corner making a quick phone call to his wife - slightly irritating.

If I was a member of a club does that mean I have a right to say "that lot in the corner are really annoying me, can you tell them to shut up please?"

No, and nor should I....just like someone shouldn't be told not to send a quick text or check the football score. *What other people are doing actually has nothing to do with me.*

I consider myself a respectable and courteous individual so what does it matter if i wear my trainers or send a text?

*Why do golf clubs feel the need to tell people what to wear, how to behave and when they can or cannot go to the toilet?*! It's like being at school....we are adults, can we not be trusted to behave reasonably and have manners without being told exactly what to do?

*Live and let live...*.
		
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If you join a club, you sign up and agree to abide by it's rules. If they say no mobiles, trainers, jeans or whatever then tough, those are the rules. You have made an adult decision, nobody forced you into it. If you don't like a club's rules then either don't join or join one that has rules that suit your requirements.


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## Airlie_Andy (Aug 8, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Well - it's not.  If I was by myself and I sat down beside another member who was reading a newspaper or magazine - I would expect that member to stop what he/she was doing/reading and engage in conversation - if only to allow me to say 'it's OK, keep reading' or something to that effect.  It's just polite.

And if you don't understand why mobile phone conversations can be irritating, then you won't understand why some of us can find them irritating.  But some of us do.  And therefore in the context of a club members should  not *have*&#8203; to put up with them.
		
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I actually said I don't understand why hearing someone on a phone is anymore irritating then hearing several people having a conversation? Simply saying some members may be irritated by mobile phones and therefore I as a fellow member should have to put up with there irrational prejudice makes no sense to me. As it happens if someone rang me I would go outside so that I could hear them properly and it may be a private conversation anyway but I really don't see how sending a silent text is effecting anyone else?


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## Airlie_Andy (Aug 8, 2012)

drive4show said:



			If you join a club, you sign up and agree to abide by it's rules. If they say no mobiles, trainers, jeans or whatever then tough, those are the rules. You have made an adult decision, nobody forced you into it. If you don't like a club's rules then either don't join or join one that has rules that suit your requirements.
		
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I've done just that. However, posters are quite entitled to question the validity of these rules and perhaps suggest alternatives.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 8, 2012)

Airlie_Andy said:



			I actually said I don't understand why hearing someone on a phone is anymore irritating then hearing several people having a conversation?
		
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Because it just is.  I can't really explain why - but it is - to me.  But then I'm the sort of guy who will point out to someone on the phone in the Quiet Zone of a train just where they are sitting and what they shouldn't be doing.  Just me I suppose.


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## Airlie_Andy (Aug 8, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Because it just is.  I can't really explain why - but it is - to me.  But then I'm the sort of guy who will point out to someone on the phone in the Quiet Zone of a train just where they are sitting and what they shouldn't be doing.  Just me I suppose.
		
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That's absolutely fine but would you tell 2 people having a conversation in the quiet zone to shut up? Why does the fact it's on a phone suddenly make it annoying? Sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you a bit but your willing to answer and I really just don't get it.


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## Neddy (Aug 8, 2012)

drive4show said:



			If you join a club, you sign up and agree to abide by it's rules. If they say no mobiles, trainers, jeans or whatever then tough, those are the rules. You have made an adult decision, nobody forced you into it. If you don't like a club's rules then either don't join or join one that has rules that suit your requirements.
		
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100% agree and in the event i join a club that is exactly what i would do.

Do you not feel though that clubs are costing themselves untold sums of money in memberships & visitors green fees by enforcing rules that only exist because they always have and in fact serve no purpose? 

For example, I just checked out a golf club's website and it told me that to play on the course i have to wear a certain kind of socks. Seriously...why?!

All clubs say on their website "visitors are welcome" but some have so many pointless rules I'd be too terrified of accidentally upsetting someone to pay them a visit. And in that situation, they don't get a green fee, and I don't get the chance to play the course....so who wins? Nobody.

Ironic that  clubs feel they are "protecting the game" by enforcing these silly rules when in fact they are only doing it harm.

I keep hearing that golf clubs are struggling/closing all over the shop. Don't you think some of that might be because people who view the game as a hobby don't wish to spend their free time being treated like school children?


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## backwoodsman (Aug 8, 2012)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I guess if you are looking at antiquated rules, then Wimbledon Common/London Scottish has one where you have to wear pillar red tops on the course (no other colour allowed). Its a by-law of playing on the course and has been in place since the club opened in 190
		
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Don't think WC/LS is quite that old Homer ...

Removal of hats: Alleged to date back to mediaeval times when removal of helmet was sign of respect - eg by removing my helmet and identifying myself, I demonstrate that I trust your friendship and trust you not to welt me around the ears with your sword or mace.


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## Dodger (Aug 8, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Doesn't matter - that's how it is.
		
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.  
But why??Who decided and when did it become?I didn't realise it was a rule of golf and I am interested as to where it originates from.Anyone


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## Snelly (Aug 8, 2012)

Dodger said:



			.  
But why??Who decided and when did it become?I didn't realise it was a rule of golf and I am interested as to where it originates from.Anyone
		
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The English decided that this should be the case after winning lots of battles against our enemies.   We dictated it and the world obeyed.


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## Yrrah09 (Aug 8, 2012)

Once after finishing a round in a competition I walked through the clubhouse (removed my hat) and gave my scorecard in. I then sat outside on the main terrace/veranda and put my cap back on as it was sunny (this was outside). I was then asked by the captain to remove it as it looked 'common'. I was only 16 but I knew it wa him throwing his weight around so I respectfully said no and explained the sun was in my eyes and wanted to watch the players come in. He then stormed out muttering words under his breath. 10 minutes later the secretary came to ask to have a chat to me. He said that disobeying the captains rules could lead me to be kicked out!?!? I was fuming, I had done nothing wrong. That's like not being able to wear sunglasses when it's sunny because they look tacky. I soon left the club and was even advised to take it further.


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## chrisd (Aug 9, 2012)

In all private clubs the rules are there before you join and you do join one knowing that. Those that ban mobile phones do so because the members want them banned, not all members but a majority because if the majority wanted them to be ok'd they would put a motion to an agm or egm and get them ok'd - that is what happens at a private club. 

I get annoyed when someone comes into my work place and has a conversation with me whilst answering 2 or 3 calls on his mobile which mostly arnt related to work. If there were 80 people in the clubhouse can you imagine the noise of the various ring tones going off and people, as they do, shouting down their phones to their wives/girlfriends about issues that they could quite happily wait until they get home. 

The main thing is though, at a private club, you are an equal member and you are quite within your rights to propose a change to the rules and I think that the people here who want more liberal rules would be suprised just how out of step with the bulk of the membership they are, and that includes the younger members not just the old codgers.


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## GreiginFife (Aug 9, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Am not arguing but can anyone tell me why you should take yer bunnet off to shake hand or not wear it indoors??
		
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Doffing the cap at the 18th is a sign of respect you your beaten/victorious opponent that the game was played in a good spirit and of mutual respect between players. 
Wearing a hat or cap indoors, I don't think this even needs to be a rule. Just why would you wear head gear indoors? What purpose would a cap or hat serve in a fully covered enclosure? Do you sit about the house in your cap? It's just bonkers that people do this.


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## dufferman (Aug 9, 2012)

Yrrah09 said:



			I was only 16 but I knew it wa him throwing his weight around so I respectfully said no and explained the sun was in my eyes and wanted to watch the players come in. He then stormed out muttering words under his breath. 10 minutes later the secretary came to ask to have a chat to me. He said that disobeying the captains rules could lead me to be kicked out!?!? I was fuming, I had done nothing wrong. That's like not being able to wear sunglasses when it's sunny because they look tacky. I soon left the club and was even advised to take it further.
		
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That is exactly how I felt when being asked to not use my mobile phone to send a text message. I was really hurting no-one, I think the captain was just throwing his weight around!


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2012)

The sad thing about this thread is that clubs are forced to ban mobiles due to the lack of social skills of far to many people.
It is not snobbery it is having to re-act to the lowest level.
The people who actually answer their phones in the theatre, cinema, public meetings and even a funeral service really do need a good talking to.


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## chrisd (Aug 9, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The sad thing about this thread is that clubs are forced to ban mobiles due to the lack of social skills of far to many people.
It is not snobbery it is having to re-act to the lowest level.
The people who actually answer their phones in the theatre, cinema, public meetings and even a funeral service really do need a good talking to.
		
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Spot on Doon, spot on!


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## CliveW (Aug 9, 2012)

What is so important about mobile phones anyway? I understand that certain professions might need to be on call etc. but why should the majority answer a call straight away? In the good old days before mobiles, if you weren't at home when the phone rang it wasn't the end of the world and people would phone back later. I won't allow visitors to my house to use or answer their mobile if they are visiting me, neither would I take a mobile with me when I visit people. They have come to see me not to have conversations with others. I don't want to have my life interupted by someone elses phone call. It is the height of bad manners and certainly don't want to listen to half of another's conversation.


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## USER1999 (Aug 9, 2012)

dufferman said:



			That is exactly how I felt when being asked to not use my mobile phone to send a text message. I was really hurting no-one, I think the captain was just throwing his weight around!
		
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HGC really is not the sort of club where the Captain throws his weight around.


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## dufferman (Aug 9, 2012)

I think there is a real divide about the whole mobile phone thing. At no point has anyone said that they can't live without their mobile phone, it just seems like a silly rule IMO. As others have mentioned, sending the odd text message is no different to burying your head in a golf magazine or book. But, each to their own, I am not a member of a club because I cannot afford it, I'm happy to admit that and am not ashamed of it. Maybe if I was paying money and got caught up in the traditions of a clubhouse my opinions might change.

As for Hillingdon Golf Club murph, I can only tell you what happened! In my limited experience at the club, that is the way they made me feel, and I haven't gone there since Christmas time!


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## Yrrah09 (Aug 9, 2012)

I have my phone on silent with me in my bag when I'm in the course and in my pocket when I'm at the bar. I check it every 6 holes just to make sure there are no emergencies. When I saw I check it, I glance at it not get it out as I'm walking up a fairway.


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## Airlie_Andy (Aug 9, 2012)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The sad thing about this thread is that clubs are forced to ban mobiles due to the lack of social skills of far to many people.
It is not snobbery it is having to re-act to the lowest level.
The people who actually answer their phones in the theatre, cinema, public meetings and even a funeral service really do need a good talking to.
		
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Those circumstances are not even slightly comparable to someone quietly sending a text in the clubhouse. Rather than ban mobile phones entirely because some people may abuse them why not state that they must be on silent and crack the whip on anyone who doesn't? Social skills have nothing to do with it, I get far more annoyed listening to some of the inane conversations I have to listen to in the clubhouse rather than someone quietly on the phone making arrangements for later in the day etc.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 9, 2012)

dufferman said:



			As for Hillingdon Golf Club... I haven't gone there since Christmas time!
		
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Your loss, methinks...

My lad was a member there for a short while... Unfortunately redundancy and a change of circumstances meant he couldn't renew... He's a bit older than yourself at 35 but he can't live without that b####y blackberry of his [angry face!]... BUT he thought it a small price to pay [not using it in the clubhouse] to be a member at a really friendly welcoming club... Hopefully, he says, new job on Monday allows him to re-acquaint himself with the club...


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## dufferman (Aug 9, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			Your loss, methinks...

My lad was a member there for a short while... Unfortunately redundancy and a change of circumstances meant he couldn't renew... He's a bit older than yourself at 35 but he can't live without that b####y blackberry of his [angry face!]... BUT he thought it a small price to pay [not using it in the clubhouse] to be a member at a really friendly welcoming club... Hopefully, he says, new job on Monday allows him to re-acquaint himself with the club...
		
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Did he find a 'young' crowd joining there? It seems that a lot of the clubs I have visited to play all seem to have members over the age of 45 which, with no disrespect to the older golfer, isn't quite what I'm looking for! Hillingdon did seem to give the impression of a much older group of people there. A few of my neighbors are members there, they are all over the age of 60!!


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## triple_bogey (Aug 9, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Someone talking loudly in to their mobile is, at best, antisocial and at worst, rude.
		
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Its no different from groups of guys after their rounds chatting, laughing loudly. I've come across many of these loud groups, and personally it makes a great lively atmostphere instead of a funeral parlour.


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## chrisd (Aug 9, 2012)

Just to put the record straight. Most clubs dont ban mobile phones. Its their ringing, and people talking on them in the clubhouse bar/eating areas that are usually banned.

If they are on vibrate and ring, people usually go out of the bar (at my place) and take a call in the corridor.I have never seen or heard of anyone told off about texting in the bar. So, no one need necessarily miss a vital call but the members enjoying a social drink after a game are not subjected to 15 different ring tones going off every few minutes and some eejit discussing with his other half whether he wants roast or boiled potatoes!


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## JezzE (Aug 9, 2012)

Dodger said:



			.  
But why??Who decided and when did it become?I didn't realise it was a rule of golf and I am interested as to where it originates from.Anyone
		
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Was having a similar conversation with my son about elbows on tables while you're eating... 'but why is it bad manners, dad?' 'Ummm... you might get ketchup on your shirt sleeves... oh, alright - I don't really know to be honest...'


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## GreiginFife (Aug 9, 2012)

triple_bogey said:



			Its no different from groups of guys after their rounds chatting, laughing loudly. I've come across many of these loud groups, and personally it makes a great lively atmostphere instead of a funeral parlour.
		
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Sorry but a big difference. It's the difference in being sociable. The difference in being involved. Being there, being part of it. Having a conversation on your mobile in the middle of the clubhouse is waayyy different to having an interactive, personal, face to face discussion as part of a group.


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## USER1999 (Aug 9, 2012)

dufferman said:



			Did he find a 'young' crowd joining there? It seems that a lot of the clubs I have visited to play all seem to have members over the age of 45 which, with no disrespect to the older golfer, isn't quite what I'm looking for! Hillingdon did seem to give the impression of a much older group of people there. A few of my neighbors are members there, they are all over the age of 60!!
		
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This interesting. My club has a strong junior membership, but there is a notable gap between say 22 and 35 where people disappear and find other priorities. I've not come across a club yet that has large numbers in this age group.

The Saturday swindle I play in has up to 80 people on the books, ages ranging from 20 to 80. It is this diversity that makes it interesting. 

Most golf clubs are the same. Mixing all the ages up is fun. They all have stories to tell, and that's part of being a member of a club.


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## triple_bogey (Aug 9, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			Sorry but a big difference. It's the difference in being sociable. The difference in being involved. Being there, being part of it. Having a conversation on your mobile in the middle of the clubhouse is waayyy different to having an interactive, personal, face to face discussion as part of a group.
		
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But WHY does it affect you in any way??? Lets say there is a group of guys and one is wearing a bluetooth earset out of your eyesight, and he's chatting on the phone. Would you think any less of the guy?? Makes no difference. 

You are telling me, someone on a quick call for a couple of minutes has to be judged as rude and antisocial??


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## MegaSteve (Aug 9, 2012)

dufferman said:



			Did he find a 'young' crowd joining there? It seems that a lot of the clubs I have visited to play all seem to have members over the age of 45 which, with no disrespect to the older golfer, isn't quite what I'm looking for! Hillingdon did seem to give the impression of a much older group of people there. A few of my neighbors are members there, they are all over the age of 60!!
		
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In his 'regular' group all the guys were of 'working age' but he didn't mind playing in comps with the 'older' group as they, in his experience, were good company [including the club captain]... Pro wasn't his cup of tea but he didn't see that as an issue... Perhaps as he got to know him better his view may have altered...


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## MegaSteve (Aug 9, 2012)

triple_bogey said:



			You are telling me, someone on a quick call for a couple of minutes has to be judged as rude and antisocial??
		
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If a one off no... BUT if continually doing so, as many now sadly do, yes....


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## dufferman (Aug 9, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			The Saturday swindle I play in has up to 80 people on the books, ages ranging from 20 to 80. It is this diversity that makes it interesting. 

Most golf clubs are the same. Mixing all the ages up is fun. They all have stories to tell, and that's part of being a member of a club.
		
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I agree with you & Steve - and like I said, I'm trying to offend anyone. My 'usual' 4 ball most Saturday's consists of me, a 50 year old, a 32 year old and a 77 year old. 

Maybe that's why I'm interested in finding some younger guys at a club!! 

And my god, if I can still do 18 holes TWICE a week at 77, I'd be very pleased!


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## chrisd (Aug 9, 2012)

dufferman said:



			I agree with you & Steve - and like I said, I'm trying to offend anyone. My 'usual' 4 ball most Saturday's consists of me, a 50 year old, a 32 year old and a 77 year old. 

Maybe that's why I'm interested in finding some younger guys at a club!! 

And my god, if I can still do 18 holes TWICE a week at 77, I'd be very pleased!
		
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I'm 60 in a few months and this week (8 days) I have played Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, this Saturday and Sunday. 5 games in 8 days with 2 new hips - better than many kids manage!


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## GreiginFife (Aug 9, 2012)

triple_bogey said:



			But WHY does it affect you in any way??? Lets say there is a group of guys and one is wearing a bluetooth earset out of your eyesight, and he's chatting on the phone. Would you think any less of the guy?? Makes no difference. 

You are telling me, someone on a quick call for a couple of minutes has to be judged as rude and antisocial??
		
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How long before a "quick call" as a one-off (which is subjective) gradually descends in to just whenever you feel like it for what ever reason. I have seen rules on things relaxed in the past and its not long before people are kicking the arse out of it. 
To answer your question, anyone I see in a group of people who are having a conversation and are on their phone whilst still sitting in the group is rude and antisocial for that duration IMO. Maybe I was just brought up with different values, maybe I ain't "hip" or "down with the kids" but at that's my cultural belief.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 9, 2012)

chrisd said:



			Spot on Doon, spot on!
		
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:clap: (that's applause of agreement from me if the smileys are still not behaving themselves)


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 9, 2012)

GreiginFife said:



			How long before a "quick call" as a one-off (which is subjective) gradually descends in to just whenever you feel like it for what ever reason. I have seen rules on things relaxed in the past and its not long before people are kicking the arse out of it. 
To answer your question, anyone I see in a group of people who are having a conversation and are on their phone whilst still sitting in the group is rude and antisocial for that duration IMO. Maybe I was just brought up with different values, maybe I ain't "hip" or "down with the kids" but at that's my cultural belief.
		
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@GreiginFife - I'm 100% in agreement with your sentiments - every word.


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## duncan mackie (Aug 9, 2012)

a scary thread - how it focused on mobile 'phones is a bit of a surprise but then again the OP lit the blue touch paper and left the building..........maybe he should clarify what he believes constitutes 'dark ages'?

as to mobile phones - I believe that there is as much validity to the argument that clubs that ban them in the clubhouse are the enlightened ones as the other way round; it's a matter of choice by the membership that others should respect.

what I do find slightly annoying is that there is anything vaguely relevant in the age of groups in the issue of technology etc  who the **** do you think built the internet, mobile phones. eCommerce infrastructures etc - clue: it wasn't today's 25 year old. There are as many 40/50/60 year old golfers with smartphones, major social network presences (increasingly hidden),  and relatively complex wired/wireless multiple device sync'd calendar structures etc  that we choose to 'switch off' within the environment of the golf clubhouse is a personal choice - not a function of living in the 19th century.

There are elements that would suggest that a club is living in the dark ages, and it's a shame that some retain these; mobile phone rules are nothing to do with it IMO


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## Val (Aug 9, 2012)

In the US it's common for people to sit at the bar after their game wearing their hat if they wish with a pair of flip flops on there feet with no socks You'd be burned at the stake in most clubs here for that.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 9, 2012)

Dodger said:



			Am not arguing but can anyone tell me why you should take yer bunnet off to shake hand or not wear it indoors??
		
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To see if they really are a baldy.


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## DCB (Aug 9, 2012)

good read  I'll take mine with salt & sauce please


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## USER1999 (Aug 9, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			In his 'regular' group all the guys were of 'working age' but he didn't mind playing in comps with the 'older' group as they, in his experience, were good company [including the club captain]... Pro wasn't his cup of tea but he didn't see that as an issue... Perhaps as he got to know him better his view may have altered...
		
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The pro at hgc is the best thing going for it, by far. He is a great coach, a very nice guy, and is also the general manager. A nicer, harder working,  easier going guy you couldn't meet. He is my one regret with leaving the club, as I would really have enjoyed working with him.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 9, 2012)

I really have to laugh at the younger guys on here going on about 'the old codgers'. I play regularly with 3 'old codgers' at my club, one is 59 and plays off 3, one is 66 and plays off 1 and the other is 76 and plays off 4 and my course is one tough track!. So as well as being able to teach me loads on the course they are all great company that you can have a really good laugh and p**s take with.


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## Iaing (Aug 9, 2012)

Valentino said:



			In the US it's common for people to sit at the bar after their game wearing their hat if they wish with a pair of flip flops on there feet with no socks You'd be burned at the stake in most clubs here for that.
		
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I would expect no less from the Americans.


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## Val (Aug 9, 2012)

Iaing said:



			I would expect no less from the Americans. 

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18 holes in 100 deg mate, your glad to let some air about your tootsies


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Aug 9, 2012)

Valentino said:



			In the US it's common for people to sit at the bar after their game wearing their hat if they wish with a pair of flip flops on there feet with no socks You'd be burned at the stake in most clubs here for that.
		
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The yanks seem to wear hats/caps everywhere, commonplace to see them wearing hats in the clubhouse, bars, restaurants....everywhere!
Although, I don't have a problem with sandals or flip flops, I do that myself when playing out there.


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## Hobbit (Aug 9, 2012)

Clubs are made up of people who decide what rules they want. If they don't like it, there's the AGM to use to change the rules. It continues to amaze me how many people 'blame' a club for a rule they don't like when in truth its the majority of members who've decided what rules they want.

Perhaps looking at it from a different perspective would be to self reflect that 'its me' that's selfish for wanting to change what so many people are happy to accept... just an off the cuff thought...


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## SocketRocket (Aug 9, 2012)

duncan mackie said:



			a scary thread - how it focused on mobile 'phones is a bit of a surprise but then again the OP lit the blue touch paper and left the building..........maybe he should clarify what he believes constitutes 'dark ages'?

as to mobile phones - I believe that there is as much validity to the argument that clubs that ban them in the clubhouse are the enlightened ones as the other way round; it's a matter of choice by the membership that others should respect.

what I do find slightly annoying is that there is anything vaguely relevant in the age of groups in the issue of technology etc  who the **** do you think built the internet, mobile phones. eCommerce infrastructures etc - clue: it wasn't today's 25 year old. There are as many 40/50/60 year old golfers with smartphones, major social network presences (increasingly hidden),  and relatively complex wired/wireless multiple device sync'd calendar structures etc  that we choose to 'switch off' within the environment of the golf clubhouse is a personal choice - not a function of living in the 19th century.

There are elements that would suggest that a club is living in the dark ages, and it's a shame that some retain these; mobile phone rules are nothing to do with it IMO
		
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A very good and educated reply.


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## LCVreg (Aug 10, 2012)

As I mentioned earlier, I did not want to get into that mobile phone scenario - on that score alone, we just need one heart attack at the furthest extremity of the course and the unfortunate dies as a result of nobody being allowed to take their mobiles on the course, and that whole issue would soon disappear.
And its not also just the "having to change into jacket & tie for sandwiches at lunchtime scenario", which I really do think is pretty sad in this day and age, it is am attempt to try and find out from others those courses and clubs which in truth just do not welcome visitors other than with a scowl, that not only from the jumped up little steward behind the bar, but also from a spotty 18 year 2 handicapper in charge of the pro-shop who has as much idea on Social charms as Alf Garnett - it is a mixture of all and everything that has been muted - there are these clubs still out there, I know a few in the South, now come on, name and shame the others!!


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## SocketRocket (Aug 10, 2012)

LCVreg said:



			As I mentioned earlier, I did not want to get into that mobile phone scenario - on that score alone, we just need one heart attack at the furthest extremity of the course and the unfortunate dies as a result of nobody being allowed to take their mobiles on the course, and that whole issue would soon disappear.
And its not also just the "having to change into jacket & tie for sandwiches at lunchtime scenario", which I really do think is pretty sad in this day and age, it is am attempt to try and find out from others those courses and clubs which in truth just do not welcome visitors other than with a scowl, that not only from the jumped up little steward behind the bar, but also from a spotty 18 year 2 handicapper in charge of the pro-shop who has as much idea on Social charms as Alf Garnett - it is a mixture of all and everything that has been muted - there are these clubs still out there, I know a few in the South, now come on, name and shame the others!!
		
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Come on now! How many clubs expect you to change into a Jacket and Tie at lunch times?   I play a lot of golf and visit many other clubs and have never been expected to do this.

You are using sensationalism to try and defend a flawed theory.    Members clubs exist for the enjoyment of the members and it's them that decide how their clubs are run.   If you want to be a visitor at these clubs then pay your green fee, abide by the rules, play your game, share the facilities on offer for the day and go on your way rejoicing.     If the club is not to your liking then dont go there again, but with your attitude you will be very restricted to venues.

Oh!  regarding the mobile phones and people having heart attacks on the course.  Many people  (me included) carry a mobile in their golf bag with it turned off.  If you needed it in such a situation you just turn it on.  Simple really.


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## chris661 (Aug 10, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			Come on now! How many clubs expect you to change into a Jacket and Tie at lunch times?   I play a lot of golf and visit many other clubs and have never been expected to do this.
		
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I would imagine the number is very low, possibly even zero. 

As you said a little further on most clubs will advise you on their website of any requirements/rules and if you don't like it you always have the option of not going. But to go and then moan about it is frankly daft.


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## Hobbit (Aug 10, 2012)

LCVreg said:



			As a society organiser of over 20 years, and with over 300 hundred courses under my belt, I am still amazed at the number of clubs who still seem to be in the era of Dickens and still expect us who dare to visit their establishments to doff their hats and lick shoes etc.......thankfully fewer and fewer, and many who just a few years ago were very much like this have dramatically turned themselves around with new managers and modern committees, one such in my neck of the woods that is now very welcoming and forthcoming being the excellent Stoneham GC in Southampton. However, thare are others that are still basically a bastion of all that is bad with a members club - I have a few names, but let us hear others that are still in the 19th C from up and down the country!!
		
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So if you invited someone into your house and they did things you found unacceptable you'd say you were in the dark ages?

On the issue of mobile phones; next time you are in a club or pub that allows them listen how the volume level rises when someone is on the phone. Its discourteous to those around you. Taking them out on the course; why not? I've never yet come across a course that searches your bag to make sure you haven't got one with you - switch to silent, no harm done.

Having read through the responses I'd say you've got a fair idea of everyone's thoughts on your question. Will it make you reconsider where you fit in the demographic, or is it the majority that are wrong?


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## Iaing (Aug 10, 2012)

I know of at least one club which up until fairly recently (don't know if the rule has changed in the last couple of years, but wouldn't bet on it) requires members to arrive at the club in jacket collar and tie and then change into golf gear. 
Visitors are allowed to turn up in their golf gear as long as they take a j,c&t if they want to use the clubhouse.
As far as mobiles are concerned, common sense has to prevail. By all means take a mobile onto the course ( on silent ) to be able to use it in an emergency.
Facebook, Twitter or checking the football results do not constitute emergencies ! So use it sparingly.
Back in the clubhouse, go outside or to the locker room to make or receive calls. Sitting using the phone while in company is as rude as taking out a book and reading it while in company.


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## OMcG (Aug 10, 2012)

Feel as if an unfair hierarchy exists within some clubs. After a round my friend and i went into the clubhouse to get something to eat. I had my phone on silent and took a short call while in the restaurant. One of the staff quite bluntly came over and told me to turn my phone off. Being relatively new to the game i was unsure of the approach with regard to mobile phones in the clubhouse. I did as requested and turned my phone off straight away and thought that that is fair enough. However shortly afterwards at the table across from us a mid-aged womans phone went off (not on silent). She was talking very loudly and must have been on the phone for 5-10minutes. During this time not one member of staff came across to tell this woman to turn her phone off. Where is the fairness and consistency in this? I was happy enough to turn my phone off and can understand that rules are rules, however i was angry that the staff took no notice off this other phone user which was very noticeable. Is this because i am 18 as i feel sometimes youger players are treated unfairly in some cases?


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## Iaing (Aug 10, 2012)

OMcG said:



			Feel as if an unfair hierarchy exists within some clubs. After a round my friend and i went into the clubhouse to get something to eat. I had my phone on silent and took a short call while in the restaurant. One of the staff quite bluntly came over and told me to turn my phone off. Being relatively new to the game i was unsure of the approach with regard to mobile phones in the clubhouse. I did as requested and turned my phone off straight away and thought that that is fair enough. However shortly afterwards at the table across from us a mid-aged womans phone went off (not on silent). She was talking very loudly and must have been on the phone for 5-10minutes. During this time not one member of staff came across to tell this woman to turn her phone off. Where is the fairness and consistency in this? I was happy enough to turn my phone off and can understand that rules are rules, however i was angry that the staff took no notice off this other phone user which was very noticeable. Is this because i am 18 as i feel sometimes youger players are treated unfairly in some cases?
		
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That's certainly not fair. It should be one rule for all.


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## Smiffy (Aug 11, 2012)

dufferman said:



			It is strange to think that clubs like this want new members, but have rules that push young people like myself away.
		
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I think that if you could be put off joining a club because you can't use your mobile phone there your heart isn't really in it.
Maybe it's best you don't join anyway????


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## mashleyR7 (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree with most of the mobile comments, talk on it outside or in the corridor and make sure it's on silent, but there is no harm in anyone sending a texting or checking emails etc on it as it wont disturb anyones peace and quiet. Wearing a hat it seen as rude and I will take mine off out of respec and how I was brought up, my dad always told me to take it off indoors when I was young. 
The things that annoys me is wearing shoes in the bar, If i'm wearing trousers its not a problem but wearing shorts, I look like  scruff with black shoes, white socks and shorts! Id look smarter with a decent pair of trainers or canvas shoes on. In fact to make sure I dont fall foul of this rule I leave an old manky pair of shoes at the club so they are always there, they are not smart and are worn out but they are shoes and are allowed over my smart new trainers. Also, socks above the ankle? Again why would this be banned?


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## chris661 (Aug 11, 2012)

mashleyR7 said:



			I agree with most of the mobile comments, talk on it outside or in the corridor and make sure it's on silent, but there is no harm in anyone sending a texting or checking emails etc on it as it wont disturb anyones peace and quiet. Wearing a hat it seen as rude and I will take mine off out of respec and how I was brought up, my dad always told me to take it off indoors when I was young. 
The things that annoys me is wearing shoes in the bar, If i'm wearing trousers its not a problem but wearing shorts, I look like  scruff with black shoes, white socks and shorts! Id look smarter with a decent pair of trainers or canvas shoes on. In fact to make sure I dont fall foul of this rule I leave an old manky pair of shoes at the club so they are always there, they are not smart and are worn out but they are shoes and are allowed over my smart new trainers. Also, socks above the ankle? Again why would this be banned?
		
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It really doesn't matter why they are banned but they are. No one said that the rules some clubs have in place or are sane but they have so there is two choices. 1.go visit the club adhere to them and get on with it (not spend days moaning about iot afterwards) or 2. don't go.


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## Fyldewhite (Aug 11, 2012)

A young colleague of mine went to play golf for the first time at a private club last week. After the round he looked at his mobile to check the latest on the olympics and was immediately admonished by the steward and made to feel an inch tall in front of his mates. He was amazed when he related the story the following day and said the reaction couldn't have been more hostile if he'd had a crap on the carpet. A lot of talk about manners and respect on here, but it goes both ways surely? Respect has to be earned IMO. Just writing down some rules that are clearly out of touch will never foster any respect for them.

The rules on mobiles are rooted in the days when mobile phones WERE intrusive and the type of people that had them (and I know I'm generalising but go with it) tended to be at the louder end of the spectrum.... you know, the type that make you utter he word "tosser" under your breath a lot...... However, as always, things have MOVED ON. Most people now have them, a high proportion use them with consideration for others and most use is nothing to do with conversation anyway..... a quick text, a check of the football etc. BAD rules are difficult to enforce. Even the R&A caved in at the Open with few real issues.

I fail to see what is wrong with "Please show consideration for other members and have mobile devices on silent mode at all times within the clubhouse or on the course". Simple, everyone understands it and it achieves the objectives for 95% of members (there's always the element actively looking to complain about something/anything).


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## Dodger (Aug 11, 2012)

Fyldewhite said:



			A young colleague of mine went to play golf for the first time at a private club last week. After the round he looked at his mobile to check the latest on the olympics and was immediately admonished by the steward and made to feel an inch tall in front of his mates. He was amazed when he related the story the following day and said the reaction couldn't have been more hostile if he'd had a crap on the carpet. A lot of talk about manners and respect on here, but it goes both ways surely? Respect has to be earned IMO. Just writing down some rules that are clearly out of touch will never foster any respect for them.

The rules on mobiles are rooted in the days when mobile phones WERE intrusive and the type of people that had them (and I know I'm generalising but go with it) tended to be at the louder end of the spectrum.... you know, the type that make you utter he word "tosser" under your breath a lot...... However, as always, things have MOVED ON. Most people now have them, a high proportion use them with consideration for others and most use is nothing to do with conversation anyway..... a quick text, a check of the football etc. BAD rules are difficult to enforce. Even the R&A caved in at the Open with few real issues.

I fail to see what is wrong with "Please show consideration for other members and have mobile devices on silent mode at all times within the clubhouse or on the course". Simple, everyone understands it and it achieves the objectives for 95% of members (there's always the element actively looking to complain about something/anything).
		
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Great post.Clubs,people and attitudes in golf need to move on with time but sadly not many do.


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## duncan mackie (Aug 11, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			Come on now! How many clubs expect you to change into a Jacket and Tie at lunch times?   I play a lot of golf and visit many other clubs and have never been expected to do this.

....

Oh!  regarding the mobile phones and people having heart attacks on the course.  Many people  (me included) carry a mobile in their golf bag with it turned off.  If you needed it in such a situation you just turn it on.  Simple really.
		
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regarding the first point; there certainly are some and the first date in the diary each year is a visit to one of them!  The bigger picture is that the round will only take 3hrs absolute max (2 balls only permitted) leaving me plenty of time for a leisurely shower and change. I then get treated to a superb lunch which will be entirely unrushed and an extremely relaxed few holes of foursomes in the afternoon usually follows. 

In many ways the antithesis to the normal society day with up to 10 hours on the course and where even changing golf shoes eats into the already rushed catering!


Possibly unsurprisingly the use of mobile phones is restricted to the car-park although, as your last paragraph highlights, there is no club anywhere that effectively bans the carrying of a mobile phone for use in an emergency on the course.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 11, 2012)

My old boss used to call them the 1% club.
He would say that 99% of folk are great but 1% are not.
So...don't worry about them just ignore them.

Very wise words that have stopped me quite a few times from giving some golfers a well deserved shellacking.


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## MadAdey (Aug 11, 2012)

Times have moved on and for some people they need to be in contact with outside world at all times. In this modern world people in business expect to be able to have contact with each other at all times, not like the old days of sending faxs and waiting for people to reply to their answer phone. Being disconnected from the outside world for 5 hours during the day could cost some a lot of money. Saying that, people should at best have their phone on silent at all times at the golf club. At my club they are not banned, but, they do ask for consideration to be shown and for them to be kept on silent. People have phones in the clubhouse with them and if needed they go outside away form people to use it. I do not see any problem with that at all.


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## chris661 (Aug 11, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			Times have moved on and for some people they need to be in contact with outside world at all times. In this modern world people in business expect to be able to have contact with each other at all times, not like the old days of sending faxs and waiting for people to reply to their answer phone. Being disconnected from the outside world for 5 hours during the day could cost some a lot of money.
		
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What a crock. If someone needs to be available for that amount of time then a golf course is the wrong place to be. NOONE is that important that they need to make/take a call whilst playing golf unless it is a life and death situation.


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## Foxholer (Aug 11, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			Come on now! How many clubs expect you to change into a Jacket and Tie at lunch times?   I play a lot of golf and visit many other clubs and have never been expected to do this.
		
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So you've never been to - and had lunch and a second round at these local (bit of an assumption) ones:
Swinley Forest
The Berkshire
Sunningdale
Royal St Georges
Rye
Woburn (I think but may be wrong)

If not, you've missed out on some cracking courses and meals - for only a small inconvenience.

Absolutely agree with everything else in the post!


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## fundy (Aug 11, 2012)

no need for jacket and tie at Woburn these days


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 11, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			Times have moved on and for some people they need to be in contact with outside world at all times. In this modern world people in business expect to be able to have contact with each other at all times, not like the old days of sending faxs and waiting for people to reply to their answer phone. Being disconnected from the outside world for 5 hours during the day could cost some a lot of money. Saying that, people should at best have their phone on silent at all times at the golf club. At my club they are not banned, but, they do ask for consideration to be shown and for them to be kept on silent. People have phones in the clubhouse with them and if needed they go outside away form people to use it. I do not see any problem with that at all.
		
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Quite agree with you on your outlook, trouble is not all folk are like you.
I have played golf with individuals in recent years who clearly have no idea of how to hold a knife and fork far less have the intellect to realise that they are not the centre of the universe.

Ps I used to lunch HCEG in the early 1960's without the need to put on a tie. Jacket yes/tie no.


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## SocketRocket (Aug 11, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			So you've never been to - and had lunch and a second round at these local (bit of an assumption) ones:
Swinley Forest
The Berkshire
Sunningdale
Royal St Georges
Rye
Woburn (I think but may be wrong)

If not, you've missed out on some cracking courses and meals - for only a small inconvenience.

Absolutely agree with everything else in the post!
		
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No, they are not in my patch.     I am not talking about a competition and meal in the restaurant but a normal weekly game with a pint and sandwich in the bar.  My reply was to someone suggesting that most clubs required you to change into a jacket and tie in these circumstances, which IMO is not the normal.


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## MadAdey (Aug 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			What a crock. If someone needs to be available for that amount of time then a golf course is the wrong place to be. NOONE is that important that they need to make/take a call whilst playing golf unless it is a life and death situation.
		
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So lets take a look at how long it takes to play golf. tee off at 10.00 maybe have to leave home 9:15 to get to the course and get changed ready to play. Usual 4 hour round, so off the course at around 14:00, get changed have a drink and get home sometime after 15:00. What planet is it that you live on that you think that someone in business could be unreachable for over 6 hours in this fast moving age. Or are they not allowed to play golf? If he shows consideration with his phone and does not sit in the clubhouse using it, or if he needs to use it on the course goes away from other players and does not disturb anyone. Is it really a problem for him to have his phone on the course.

I think that people need to realise one thing and take their head out of their arses. This is the technology age and people expect to be dealt with instantly not the day after. Just because you do not have a job that requires you to sort things out instantly it does not mean that others around you are not in that position. 

Should these people be banned from playing golf? Take a surgeon for instance that is not even on call. There might be someone requiring surgery as soon as possible. But no leave them there until he has finished playing his game of golf just to keep people like you happy..............


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			Should these people be banned from playing golf? Take a surgeon for instance that is not even on call. There might be someone requiring surgery as soon as possible. But no leave them there until he has finished playing his game of golf just to keep people like you happy..............

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Read the last sentence in my post. Nothing in business is that important that you have to have a phone glued to you and if you do then a golf course isn't the place you should be. But then "people like me" understand that


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## mareksoultrain (Aug 12, 2012)

Seen many incidents which have really got my goat. One recently.  I was taking a very important call following a match whilst in the car park of a club in Sheffield.  No signs anywhere regarding usage of phone in car park (After checking club rules, no mention of carpark) which was well away from any playing area or confines of club house. In fact I was speaking very quietly as conscious a couple of members around and I'm not showy in conversation.  I was told very rudely "I don't want to hear that conversation" and to "Put the damm phone away".  No excuse me, or can I have a quiet word please.  Now to me that attitude is very off putting and not unique.  Left a really bad taste considering I'd just seen them chatting with a friend who was now stood in the patio door between bar and terrace who was talking on his phone!!  Did I just not look right?  Thought of any membership out the window. Talk about leaving a bad taste.  Another quick anecdote.  Playing in the Scottish Borders with family tournament (16 + players) surprised to see locals teeing off in Shell Suits (Rangers aswell, noo) but no problems with us (They were crushing drives). Interestingly when my old man went into the clubhouse to settle up following the round plus buying food and drinks for all of us, this happened;  In the clubhouse the locals were again sporting trackies and football shirts along with the chap who was running the show who was wearing a grease smeared pinny and baseball cap.  My old man pops his hat on for a second as we're leaving and goes to hand over Â£400 cash to the chap who tells him to take his hat off or leave the club???  Double standards all around.  Attracts some very rude people this game.


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

mareksoultrain said:



			Seen many incidents which have really got my goat. One recently.  I was taking a very important call following a match whilst in the car park of a club in Sheffield.  No signs anywhere regarding usage of phone in car park (After checking club rules, no mention of carpark) which was well away from any playing area or confines of club house. In fact I was speaking very quietly as conscious a couple of members around and I'm not showy in conversation.  I was told very rudely "I don't want to hear that conversation" and to "Put the damm phone away".  No excuse me, or can I have a quiet word please.  Now to me that attitude is very off putting and not unique.  Left a really bad taste considering I'd just seen them chatting with a friend who was now stood in the patio door between bar and terrace who was talking on his phone!!  Did I just not look right?  Thought of any membership out the window. Talk about leaving a bad taste.  Another quick anecdote.  Playing in the Scottish Borders with family tournament (16 + players) surprised to see locals teeing off in Shell Suits (Rangers aswell, noo) but no problems with us (They were crushing drives). Interestingly when my old man went into the clubhouse to settle up following the round plus buying food and drinks for all of us, this happened;  In the clubhouse the locals were again sporting trackies and football shirts along with the chap who was running the show who was wearing a grease smeared pinny and baseball cap.  My old man pops his hat on for a second as we're leaving and goes to hand over Â£400 cash to the chap who tells him to take his hat off or leave the club???  Double standards all around.  Attracts some very rude people this game.
		
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Those two stories have ZERO to do with any rules that are in place and more to do with pig ignorant people. If there were no rules in place then these folk would still find something to moan about.


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## Dodger (Aug 12, 2012)

mareksoultrain said:



			Seen many incidents which have really got my goat. One recently.  I was taking a very important call following a match whilst in the car park of a club in Sheffield.  No signs anywhere regarding usage of phone in car park (After checking club rules, no mention of carpark) which was well away from any playing area or confines of club house. In fact I was speaking very quietly as conscious a couple of members around and I'm not showy in conversation.  I was told very rudely "I don't want to hear that conversation" and to "Put the damm phone away".  No excuse me, or can I have a quiet word please.  Now to me that attitude is very off putting and not unique.  Left a really bad taste considering I'd just seen them chatting with a friend who was now stood in the patio door between bar and terrace who was talking on his phone!!  Did I just not look right?  Thought of any membership out the window. Talk about leaving a bad taste.  Another quick anecdote.  Playing in the Scottish Borders with family tournament (16 + players) surprised to see locals teeing off in Shell Suits (Rangers aswell, noo) but no problems with us (They were crushing drives). Interestingly when my old man went into the clubhouse to settle up following the round plus buying food and drinks for all of us, this happened;  In the clubhouse the locals were again sporting trackies and football shirts along with the chap who was running the show who was wearing a grease smeared pinny and baseball cap.  My old man pops his hat on for a second as we're leaving and goes to hand over Â£400 cash to the chap who tells him to take his hat off or leave the club???  Double standards all around.  Attracts some very rude people this game.
		
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Name and shame the Scottish Borders club.............as long as it wasn't in Coldstream!


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## Fish (Aug 12, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			So lets take a look at how long it takes to play golf. tee off at 10.00 maybe have to leave home 9:15 to get to the course and get changed ready to play. Usual 4 hour round, so off the course at around 14:00, get changed have a drink and get home sometime after 15:00. What planet is it that you live on that you think that someone in business could be unreachable for over 6 hours in this fast moving age. Or are they not allowed to play golf? If he shows consideration with his phone and does not sit in the clubhouse using it, or if he needs to use it on the course goes away from other players and does not disturb anyone. Is it really a problem for him to have his phone on the course.

I think that people need to realise one thing and take their head out of their arses. This is the technology age and people expect to be dealt with instantly not the day after. Just because you do not have a job that requires you to sort things out instantly it does not mean that others around you are not in that position. 

Should these people be banned from playing golf? Take a surgeon for instance that is not even on call. There might be someone requiring surgery as soon as possible. But no leave them there until he has finished playing his game of golf just to keep people like you happy..............

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What you are now advocating above is phones can be switched on whilst playing incase these businessmen need to answer them to clinch a deal or answer a customer immediately because their whole life depends on their phone being on and accessible 24/7!  Sorry but that's a complete no no and I'm sure if you saw someone in front of you on the fairway answer their phone you would be complaining about slow play!

If their in business and can't give themselves a part-day off for a social game of golf and leave a message on their phone that they will be available again later that day from 4pm so please leave a message, then there doing something wrong and are not very good businessmen and if they are waiting for news on a business deal that day they shouldn't be on the golf course and should play at weekends.

If my business or family need me in an emergency then they will call the club, as they have done once before, and someone comes and alerts me.

...and a phone on silent in your bag is as much use as a choclate ashtry, unless there going to keep looking at it every 5 minutes which is annoying in its own right.


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## MadAdey (Aug 12, 2012)

Ok then Chris before this turns into handbags at 10 paces..:thup: I will ask you one question. I have said why I do not see a problem with people having mobile phones with them at the golf club, but only if they use them with the up most consideration towards other golfers. What is the reason for you having a problem with people having them at the golf club and not just because no one is that important that they need to have it with them. Because to be honest this has come up many times on this forum, but I am still yet to see a valid argument to ban people from having them with them , but only if they are not causing a problem to others.


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## Fish (Aug 12, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			Ok then Chris before this turns into handbags at 10 paces..:thup: I will ask you one question. I have said why I do not see a problem with people having mobile phones with them at the golf club, but only if they use them with the up most consideration towards other golfers. What is the reason for you having a problem with people having them at the golf club and not just because no one is that important that they need to have it with them. Because to be honest this has come up many times on this forum, but I am still yet to see a valid argument to ban people from having them with them , but only if they are not causing a problem to others.
		
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Because you can't differentiate what is an important call or not and as such you could be answering multiple calls all around the course affecting not only people your playing with but other nearby players on neighbouring fairways or when greens are close to other tee boxes.

If you can't be away from your work or phone for 4 hours on a specific day then don't play that day.


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			Ok then Chris before this turns into handbags at 10 paces..:thup: I will ask you one question. I have said why I do not see a problem with people having mobile phones with them at the golf club, but only if they use them with the up most consideration towards other golfers. What is the reason for you having a problem with people having them at the golf club and not just because no one is that important that they need to have it with them. Because to be honest this has come up many times on this forum, but I am still yet to see a valid argument to ban people from having them with them , but only if they are not causing a problem to others.
		
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I never said I had a problem with them. Do you read my posts? I said if you have to have a phone glued to you for 6 hours in case you miss the "deal" of a lifetime then you shouldn't be on a golf course. How hard is that to understand? 

And can you explain your "people like me comment"?


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## Ethan (Aug 12, 2012)

If you are a transplant surgeon on 24/7 call (some of them are) or a secret agent who may be called at any time to defeat an evil megalomaniac bent on world destruction, then fine, on the course have your phone in your pocket on vibrate. For all others, switch it off. 

I don't give a toss if you set up an office in the car park, though. You can take a call, send a fax and print off some documents there for all I care.


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## Hobbit (Aug 12, 2012)

I dare say we could all think of a scenario that would fit the phones are essential argument. "Your wife/child have been involved in a serious accident..." is one that would fit for me. But in reality 99.99% of people don't carry a phone for that reason. 

"Business men need a phone for that ultra urgent call..." If I'm in an all day meeting my phone is off, and gets switched on a lunchtime and at the end of the meeting. Further to that, business men have holidays and on occasion take ill - and strangely enough someone else makes the decision, or is empowered to make that decision.

"A surgeon..." Acute Care is undertaken in major centres not cottage hospitals, and there are a number of Senior Consultant Surgeons in every large hospital. If a Consultant isn't available the Senior Registrar takes the call. 

I can't see anything wrong with a phone being on silent, and the recipient of the call uses discretion. And just like at the Open, an area is designated for their use - it might be a corridor or locker room. But out on the course, whether making or receiving, emergencies only.


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## Dodger (Aug 12, 2012)

I made a phone call out on the course yesterday to book my time in today's medal.

Bad me.

It was an emergency though.


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## Ethan (Aug 12, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			"A surgeon..." Acute Care is undertaken in major centres not cottage hospitals, and there are a number of Senior Consultant Surgeons in every large hospital. If a Consultant isn't available the Senior Registrar takes the call.
		
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There are surgeons and doctors who need to be available 24/7, and they don't take part in a conventional on-call rota. 

Transplant surgeons are one example I cited, although there are others, where organs become available and need to be used immediately by the most experienced person.


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## Foxholer (Aug 12, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			No, they are not in my patch.     I am not talking about a competition and meal in the restaurant but a normal weekly game with a pint and sandwich in the bar.  My reply was to someone suggesting that most clubs required you to change into a jacket and tie in these circumstances, which IMO is not the normal.
		
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Fair enough. I would also expect there to be a 'Spike Bar', or equivalent, to cater for this fairly normal post-round activity, though at least one of those I mentioned only have the one style, but is 'small' and has only a single bar/dining.relaxation area, so I can excuse it.

WRT phones on the course. i have occasionally been 'on-call' for (weekend/holiday) IT Support, so have had the phone on 'loud' on the course. However, I've always sought (and been granted) permission from the club and anyone I'm playing with - as I may need to stop and/or return to the club for additional support.


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## MadAdey (Aug 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			I never said I had a problem with them. Do you read my posts? I said if you have to have a phone glued to you for 6 hours in case you miss the "deal" of a lifetime then you shouldn't be on a golf course. How hard is that to understand? 

And can you explain your "people like me comment"?
		
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Getting a little bit confused with your posts now mate. Either you have a problem with them or not. Your posts read like you do have a problem with people having them at the golf club. Nice to see someone else (ethan) has put the argument that some people need to be in contact with the outside world at all times. Really does it matter if someone has a phone with them, if it does not affect anyone else and their enjoyment of a game of golf? That is all I am asking. I agree if I saw someone stood in the fairway chatting away when I am waiting to play a shot I would be going mental, but that is only the same as people who look for balls and do not let the group behind them play through. If someone has a phone with them and goes to one side to use it and lets the group behind play through then what does it matter? Are they affecting your game?


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

So if in a drawn comp someone in your 4ball gets a call or two as its "very important" and you have to let two or three groups through extending your round to over six hours you are happy with that? 

Like I say if something is that important that you "have" to take a call then maybe the golf course isn't the place you should be.


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

Anyway it's all immaterial if a club has the rule then tough. If you don't like it raise it at the agm if to are a member or don't give them the greenfee if you are a visitor.


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## Hobbit (Aug 12, 2012)

chris661 said:



			So if in a drawn comp someone in your 4ball gets a call or two as its "very important" and you have to let two or three groups through extending your round to over six hours you are happy with that? 

Like I say if something is that important that you "have" to take a call then maybe the golf course isn't the place you should be.
		
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Its already covered in the Rule of Golf... playing without undue delay.


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## chris661 (Aug 12, 2012)

Hobbit said:



			Its already covered in the Rule of Golf... playing without undue delay.
		
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But Madadey seems to think it doesn't matter


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## Neddy (Aug 12, 2012)

Just out of interest, how do people feel about mobile phones on driving ranges?

I never take mine to the range, but i was at one today  where two people in bays close by received or made phone calls.

Now it didn't personally bother me, but it just got me thinking about this thread and how certain contributors to it might not have approved!


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## Fader (Aug 12, 2012)

Neddy said:



			Just out of interest, how do people feel about mobile phones on driving ranges?

I never take mine to the range, but i was at one today  where two people in bays close by received or made phone calls.

Now it didn't personally bother me, but it just got me thinking about this thread and how certain contributors to it might not have approved!
		
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I always put mine on silent a the range, do check it occaisionally more for the time than any other reason. However there is usually someones phone that goes off and they answer the call. Really doesn't bother me at the range, after all not everyone there maybe a serious golfer or for serious practice.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

In this age of the ubiquitous mobile - many might see clubs that ban mobile phones as being enlightened rather than in the dark ages.  As others have said -  it doesn't matter what you or I think about a club that bans phones - the club has made that decision so follow the rules or don't play.  And as far as 'important business calls' - well most of us try and work all day and would jump at the opportunity to play during the week.  If you can - you don't abuse it.  That's just how it is.


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## Snelly (Aug 13, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			In this age of the ubiquitous mobile - many might see clubs that ban mobile phones as being enlightened rather than in the dark ages.  As others have said -  it doesn't matter what you or I think about a club that bans phones - the club has made that decision so follow the rules or don't play.  And as far as 'important business calls' - well most of us try and work all day and would jump at the opportunity to play during the week.  If you can - you don't abuse it.  That's just how it is.
		
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Well said.

I like playing at clubs where phones are banned as it gives me the break that I want from work after making a decision to take a day off to play a game of golf.  

All these posts about surgeons etc are a red herring.  Most people are not surgeons nor are they that important that they need to take phone calls on the course.  

It is so simple.  if you need to spend the day making and taking calls then clearly, you cannot fit a round of golf into such a schedule.   Personally, I would not be able to concentrate on my game if I had work problems coming in from on course conversations anyway.


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## Fader (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't understand how anyone can go a few hours without having their mobile glued to their hands. Do these people also wake from their slumber just to check if they have a text/tweet/facebook notification.

Surely if you decide to play golf then you are looking to enjoy that if you want to play the next snake game on your phone perhaps another hobby is for you. 

We have a regular swindle of between, 8-16 dependant on people that turn up on the day with varied jobs and have families etc. I can't recall ever in a year playing with this group ever seeing one of them use a phone on course or even having it out in the clubhouse. In this time of how someone always knows where you are and can contact you, I find it a little piece on inner sanctum to know for that period of time it's just me doing what I want and not needing to answer the phone to explain where and what i'm upto.


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

After reading this whole thing from the first few people to 'hate' on mobile phones to now - I think there is a clear divide. 

Surely though, the simple, easy solution is a little give and take? In medals, yeah, maybe a call on the course is out of hand. But on the weekend between friends for a quick one for business purposes, let it slide?

Mr Big Balls la-di-da on the phone in the clubhouse shouting about his wife's boob job surgery should be asked to leave to take the call - understandable. The lad sending a quick text whilst the phone is on silent where no-one really notices could just be left in peace since he's hurting no-one?

For those who say rules are rules are rules... I cannot believe you're all saints? You've never ran through the clubhouse in your spikes for a quick pre game wee? Maybe putted when you're buddies off the green to speed up the day?


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## Fader (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



*Surely though, the simple, easy solution is a little give and take? In medals, yeah, maybe a call on the course is out of hand. But on the weekend between friends for a quick one for business purposes, let it slide?

*Mr Big Balls la-di-da on the phone in the clubhouse shouting about his wife's boob job surgery should be asked to leave to take the call - understandable. *The lad sending a quick text whilst the phone is on silent where no-one really notices could just be left in peace since he's hurting no-one*?

For those who say rules are rules are rules... I cannot believe you're all saints? You've never ran through the clubhouse in your spikes for a quick pre game wee? Maybe putted when you're buddies off the green to speed up the day?
		
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To you first point, I don't see any need even in a friendly knock with mates for use of a phone on the course. Your there to enjoy yourself regardless of competitive or not and for the respect of those your playing with to not answer the phone. 

as for the quiet text in the corner, I wouldn't have an issue with that as long as i'm not talking to the person in question who suddenly picks up their phone mid conversation to start checking their phone etc, as that I would find disrespectful


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

Fader said:



			To you first point, I don't see any need even in a friendly knock with mates for use of a phone on the course. Your there to enjoy yourself regardless of competitive or not and for the respect of those your playing with to not answer the phone.
		
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I understand that is your personal choice, but that isn't everyone else's view or choice. By telling people they can't use their phones because _you _don't like it is a bit off. If it affects the game (holds up 3 groups on the 5th tee because the group with said 'offender' isn't putting) I totally agree. However, is it harming anyone if a call is made walking from the tee to the 250yd drive each of the 3 ball all hit...? Forget if _you_ think that is rude or un-gentlemanly, is it affecting your game?


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## Fader (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			I understand that is your personal choice, but that isn't everyone else's view or choice. By telling people they can't use their phones because _you _don't like it is a bit off. If it affects the game (holds up 3 groups on the 5th tee because the group with said 'offender' isn't putting) I totally agree. However, is it harming anyone if a call is made walking from the tee to the 250yd drive each of the 3 ball all hit...? Forget if _you_ think that is rude or un-gentlemanly, is it affecting your game?
		
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Of course it's affecting mine or whoever else's game it is, as its happening in the group being played in. Courtesy and manners cost nothing and is it really a hardship to not have a mobile glued tou the ear for a few short hours of a recreational activity.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

I've got a mate who is a GP and is sometimes 'on call' for 'serious incident support' when he plays.  He has had the OK from the club to take his mobile onto the course and he always informs his playing companions on the first that he may have to make a call or disappear off - a very unlikely possibility but one that exists nonetheless.  He has it on silent and checks it discretely for missed calls or texts every few holes.  And that is absolutely fine - it may seem like one rule for one a different one for others - and yes it is - but it is a concession made by the club that I am more than happy to accept.    As it happens I've never been playing with him when he's received any such message.


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## upsidedown (Aug 13, 2012)

I feel sad for all the pro mobile on course users that they cant organise their lives to live 3.5 to 4 hours without getting their fix.

Me, I'm self employed and when on the course I'm playing golf so calls can wait till I'm ready to deal with them, I'm in control not my phone in control of me !!


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

Fader said:



			Of course it's affecting mine or whoever else's game it is, as its happening in the group being played in. Courtesy and manners cost nothing and is it really a hardship to not have a mobile glued tou the ear for a few short hours of a recreational activity.
		
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Sorry - I think we're on the wrong page here - I was referring to you perhaps being in the group behind. I do agree if you were to ask me or anyone not to use their mobiles, it would be downright rude to ignore it!

However, I must ask... at the risk of opening a whole can of worms... what about GPS Apps on smartphones? Again, I'm a user of it on the course (saving Â£50+ on a decent Garmin Golf GPS watch / device or equivilant). Is that (outside of a competition) acceptable?


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## Hobbit (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			I understand that is your personal choice, but that isn't everyone else's view or choice. By telling people they can't use their phones because _you _don't like it is a bit off. If it affects the game (holds up 3 groups on the 5th tee because the group with said 'offender' isn't putting) I totally agree. However, is it harming anyone if a call is made walking from the tee to the 250yd drive each of the 3 ball all hit...? Forget if _you_ think that is rude or un-gentlemanly, is it affecting your game?
		
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I'm in the 'no I don't like it' when out on the course. Using your example, and I've experienced this a few times, the 4 ball on another fairway are walking to their balls and one of them was on the phone. Its intrusive... BTW I'm partly deaf and still found it instrusive.

What's wrong with conversing with those in your 4ball? Why do you have to ring someone, or receive a call? How do you think we all survived for donkey's years without a mobile?


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## Fader (Aug 13, 2012)

On course GPS device useage, as long as its allowed under the local rules is a different matter. No issue personally with it, though with using a phone to make calls totally against that.


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## MadAdey (Aug 13, 2012)

I think this is one of those things that people will never agree on. There are valid reasons put forward both for and against having a phone on the course with you. My attitude towards it will not change. If someone is using one and it is not affecting me then what is the problem. It has been mentioned that someone gets allowed to use one as he is an "on call doctor", which is something that I have highlighted as someone who may need it on the course. But what about the next man who asks for a concession, because he needs to be in touch with the office or what ever reason he has for having a phone with him. I do not htink you can start having double standards at a club, they are either banned or not. If I go to a club that are really against them then I would abide by that rule. Plenty of things on the course to wreck your enjoyment, what about people that have foghorns for voices and walk down another fairway when you are trying to play a shot. Or the person that walks past with his clubs rattling around in his bag. Golf to me is all about showing consideration to others around you and not wrecking their enjoyment of a round.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			I think this is one of those things that people will never agree on. There are valid reasons put forward both for and against having a phone on the course with you.
		
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I can think of no valid reasons for allowing general use of mobile phones on a golf course if their use irritates other players - as it does.  In fact I can't really think of any valid reasons full stop.  Easy enough for a call to be left with the pro shop and for them to come out and get you.




			My attitude towards it will not change. If someone is using one and it is not affecting me then what is the problem. It has been mentioned that someone gets allowed to use one as he is an "on call doctor", which is something that I have highlighted as someone who may need it on the course. But what about the next man who asks for a concession, because he needs to be in touch with the office or what ever reason he has for having a phone with him. I do not htink you can start having double standards at a club, they are either banned or not.
		
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A GP on 'serious incident standby' is not your normal situation and him being contacted would be a *rare* occurrence (obviously) so a completely different set of circumstances than a 'business' call.  And please let's not get into the semantics about whether or not a GP on 'serious incident' call is business or not - the differentiation is very obvious so we are not talking double-standards in any way, shape or form - 'either banned or not' is a neat attempt at a bit of moral blackmail given the case I mention - bit like the Aberdonian on money and death - if I cannae take it with me I'm no goin').  Besides the man who suspects that the office may urgently need to be in touch with him shouldn't be on the golf course if a pending call could be so critical as to need dealing with instantly.




			If I go to a club that are really against them then I would abide by that rule.
		
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If they are banned in what way would a club *not *be really against them [/QUOTE]




			Plenty of things on the course to wreck your enjoyment, what about people that have foghorns for voices and walk down another fairway when you are trying to play a shot. Or the person that walks past with his clubs rattling around in his bag.
		
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Yes - quite agree and at my place such things are mentioned to these miscreants at the time




			Golf to me is all about showing consideration to others around you and not wrecking their enjoyment of a round.
		
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Indeed - QED


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			However, I must ask... at the risk of opening a whole can of worms... what about GPS Apps on smartphones? Again, I'm a user of it on the course (saving Â£50+ on a decent Garmin Golf GPS watch / device or equivilant). Is that (outside of a competition) acceptable?
		
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Very much depends upon what other Apps are on the phone.  Your verbal declaration that you won't use other Apps that may be deemed to be a source of additional playing information may not be good enough, and you may have to disable them - some clubs may not even accept that.  Always check with the pro shop.


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## MadAdey (Aug 13, 2012)

I am with people on a lot of things that are being said regarding phones at the club hogan.To me it is one of those things that if it is not bothering me then I do not care. I have mine with me as I use the golf GPS app on mine, but it is left on silent and I would never use it on the course, as I do not need to. I might make a quick call from the clubhouse if needed, but I would go outside away from others. My club has a ruling that they are not allowed in the clubhouse, so go outside if you need to use it. I agree that some people need to be contactable, like doctors and have used them as examples in previous posts. My regular playing partner is a senior prison officer and is riot trained. He had a call once on the course and had to leave immediately as there was a riot and some officers where being held by prisoners in a cell. To me that is a good reason to be contactable, as it was a matter of urgency. But when it comes to some people can have them and some can't you create a grey area as to who can and can't carry them and how do you make a list of people that can. For me a lot of people can be on that list, policemen, Firemen, ambulance drivers, prison officers, armed forces personnel, doctors, surgeons, nurses etc etc. These people are all involved with emrgency situations of the great importance, so they could all justify having a phone with them. So at what point do you say who can and can't use a phone at the golf club?


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## Hobbit (Aug 13, 2012)

Just a slant on the emergency on-call scenario. I was the on-call medical engineer for many years. When it was my on-call week I didn't play for 2 reasons. I didn't want to spoil someone else's round by walking in, and it would take the thick end of an hour by the time I walk in and drive to the hospital.

The question that arises from that is are you really an emergency on-caller if you can afford the time to be out in the middle of the course?


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm a web developer, and have to keep an eye on our customers websites that take Â£1000's worth of business on weekends. What happens when one of those website goes down, and my email system starts sending out urgent repair emails to me? I would say that my customer losing Â£1000's of business is important. And let me tell you, if I said I was on the golf course so I couldn't fix it (and by fix it I mean either sort the problem out OR delegate the problem to a member of our team) I wouldn't have a business to run. However, others would say that emergency Doctors or Prison Riot Officers are much more important than my customers - it's all opinion. 

However, it does seem that almost all the arguments against phones are people who believe they are some sort of better person for not wanting to use one and 'enjoy the company of the people you're with'. That's nice for you, but who are you to tell someone else what they can and can't do?

Does it affect your game is the only question that needs to be asked. In the clubhouse is a different story, that I've quite openly said how I feel, that many disagreed. But banning them on the course because you're not the kind of person who uses a mobile is like stopping 4x4's driving on the road in towns because you drive a Toyota Prius.


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## Doon frae Troon (Aug 13, 2012)

I played a KO semi final a couple of years ago against a player I gave myself little chance of beating.
Before the match he asked if I would mind if he kept his phone on silent as he was expecting an important business call.
Nice guy and a good sport so I instantly said yes.
He played his game with one mind on the call that never came, and I won comfortably.


As mentioned above 'golf is about consideration'.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

But banning them on the course because you're not the kind of person who uses a mobile is like stopping 4x4's driving on the road in towns because you drive a Toyota Prius.

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Don't see *anyone *here make that the reason for such bans being appropriate.  Whereas *everyone *who accepts bans does so on the grounds that someone else might be distracted or irritated - and that it is the club's decision - and that's really all it's about.


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

There are *plenty* of people in this thread who dislike the idea of phones because those people do not use them, and want them banned or like the fact they are banned in the clubhouse.

As I said earlier - does it affect your game? If it doesn't then there aren't many grounds to implement a ban.


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## MegaSteve (Aug 13, 2012)

I HATE mobile 'devices' [they ain't just 'phones anymore]... I no longer golf with my brother in law due to his 'need' of not only carrying a 'device' but actually bloody answering it [mad]... When I retire properly, in a year or two's time, one of the requirements of any club I join will be that they take a VERY dim view of 'communicators' being used in the clubhouse [at the very least]...

I am sure attitudes will change but hopefully not until I've departed... [Rant over] (for now)...


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## fundy (Aug 13, 2012)

I like our clubs approach to them in the clubhouse, basically they are banned but now if one rings rather than people moaning everyone cheers and the "culprit" has to put a quid in the captains charity pot


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## MadAdey (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			There are *plenty* of people in this thread who dislike the idea of phones because those people do not use them, and want them banned or like the fact they are banned in the clubhouse.As I said earlier - does it affect your game? If it doesn't then there aren't many grounds to implement a ban.
		
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Like I have said previously.... there are people who really do not have a need to be contactable at all times so do not see why other may need to be. It is not possible to get these people to understand why some people feel the need to have a phone on the course. Likewise people who do not have a problem with them will not be swayed to agreeing htat they should be banned. This is one of those threads that will never change peoples minds either way. It is a case of live with it. If you need  your phone then make sure it is on silent and out of the way so that people can't see it. If you must use it then leave the clubhouse and go to the carpark.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

by '...not use them' - I read that they did not use a mobile phone full stop.  Are there really that many folk here who don't use a mobile phone at all?  Yes there are plenty who do not use them on the course or in clubhouse as they are following the rule of the club or just don't want to be distracted or distract or irritate fellow members or players out on the course.


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			by '...not use them' - I read that they did not use a mobile phone full stop.  Are there really that many folk here who don't use a mobile phone at all?  Yes there are plenty who do not use them on the course or in clubhouse as they are following the rule of the club or just don't want to be distracted or distract or irritate fellow members or players out on the course.
		
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I would assume that the people who seem to dislike them that much do not use one... certainly not on a daily basis?


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## Fader (Aug 13, 2012)

Can't stand them on the course, prefer them be on silent in the clubhouse and go outside to make/take a call. I have one that I have to use constantly for my job to send and receive my jobs through when on different sites. Constantly have some sort of text message, phone call or email coming through from work, friends or family but I cannot see any need for it on the course. I love escaping from the bloody thing.


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## duncan mackie (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			There are *plenty* of people in this thread who dislike the idea of phones because those people do not use them, and want them banned ......
		
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there is as little basis for this conclusion as there was the earlier one regarding age.

I believe that you also used the argument about it being appropriate that there is 'choice' - but conveniently miss the corollary to that in this instance; some people may choose to go to a club that doesn't permit the use of mobile 'phones in the clubhouse. 

It can't be a question of right or wrong because, as has already been said by a number of people, it's the membership who make the decision.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			I would assume that the people who seem to dislike them that much do not use one... certainly not on a daily basis?
		
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Well I dislike mobiles on the course and in the clubhouse and I use my mobile and remote comms devices all the time as I work from home.  This means that even if I wanted to, and saw a gap in my diary, I cannot nip off to the club for a few holes during the working week as I am expected to be contactable at any time.  The ban on phones on golf course means I can't - and I accept that.  So I just don't play 9-5 Mon-Fri. unless I am on leave.


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			So I just don't play 9-5 Mon-Fri. unless I am on leave.
		
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I'm pretty much expected, certainly by my boss, to be able to be in touch to fix / help fix a problem in my job 24 / 7. Maybe not throughout the night, but certainly weekends, bank holidays etc. Even on holiday in a different country a month back I was on the phone occasionally.

So, what do I do?


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## Fader (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			I'm pretty much expected, certainly by my boss, to be able to be in touch to fix / help fix a problem in my job 24 / 7. Maybe not throughout the night, but certainly weekends, bank holidays etc. Even on holiday in a different country a month back I was on the phone occasionally.

So, what do I do?
		
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Get a job where you can have a life. No job is worth sacrificing personal time such as a holiday to be on the phone to take work calls. I wouldn't do it, I went away for a family wedding back end of June to Italy and didn't bother taking the phone to cut out the chance of a work call, was asked why I wasn't asnwering I simply answered "I was on holiday"


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## dufferman (Aug 13, 2012)

Fader said:



			Get a job where you can have a life. No job is worth sacrificing personal time such as a holiday to be on the phone to take work calls. I wouldn't do it, I went away for a family wedding back end of June to Italy and didn't bother taking the phone to cut out the chance of a work call, was asked why I wasn't asnwering I simply answered "I was on holiday"
		
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I feel quite the flipside of that actually - I'm proud that in my place work of I'm called upon as the most knowledgeable and reliable. But anyway, as mentioned 100 times before, each to his own, it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree!


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## SocketRocket (Aug 13, 2012)

I dont have a problem with people using mobile phones, I have one myself, I guess almost everyone does.    The problem is the way some people use them and this is what alienates them from places like golf clubs.

I would never make or receive a call in a public place, it is antisocial to disturb others peace and relaxation by talking loudly down a phone, forcing others to listen into what is mostly drivel.   It's a simple case of good manners to go somewhere away from others when using them, it's no real hardship either.    I can kind-of see the case for someone reading or sending a text message as long as the phone does not play green sleeves or similar.

As so many people these days seem unable to keep anything in their lives private and see no harm in inflicting their personal phone conversations on others these rules have to be made.   It would be so better if it was self regulated but good public manners are as rare as 'hens teeth' these days.


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## 6inchcup (Aug 13, 2012)

dufferman said:



			I'm pretty much expected, certainly by my boss, to be able to be in touch to fix / help fix a problem in my job 24 / 7. Maybe not throughout the night, but certainly weekends, bank holidays etc. Even on holiday in a different country a month back I was on the phone occasionally.

So, what do I do?
		
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i used to have a similar boss,until i told him to stick it a started up on my own,got to have some work life balance,i work to live not live to work!!!


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## PNWokingham (Aug 13, 2012)

fundy said:



			I like our clubs approach to them in the clubhouse, basically they are banned but now if one rings rather than people moaning everyone cheers and the "culprit" has to put a quid in the captains charity pot 

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That would save me a lot of money compared to the lake on 8/9!


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## HomerJSimpson (Aug 13, 2012)

As I've said before my mum is ill but I need golf to give me some head space to think. I need the phone to be on and tend to check it once at the 9th which is back at the clubhouse (should I need to go) and then when I get back. If I have a message or text I'll use it in the locker room and deal with it before joining everyone in the 19th. I have it on vibrate so I can go outside and call/text if needed.

I'm not going to compromise on that and everyone I play with is made aware of the situation before we start. No-one has ever complained and all agree family before golf each and every time.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 13, 2012)

Well golf buddy - there is no negative answer to this 'plea for leniency' that would not sound callous or mean - so I won't give one.  Because despite some saying 'one rule for all' - that just need not be the case.  As we know - consideration for fellow players is the watchword - whichever way that plays. Mum's the word - the only word that really matters.


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## Smiffy (Aug 14, 2012)

MadAdey said:



			So lets take a look at how long it takes to play golf. tee off at 10.00 maybe have to leave home 9:15 to get to the course and get changed ready to play. Usual 4 hour round, so off the course at around 14:00, get changed have a drink and get home sometime after 15:00. What planet is it that you live on that you think that someone in business could be unreachable for over 6 hours in this fast moving age.
		
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Do what I do Adey. Last thing before heading for the tee is check my mobile phone. No calls, then pop it in the boot of the car. Play my round and take clubs back to the car. 4 hours or less (hopefully). Check phone. Any calls? Reply to them before heading into the bar. No calls? Leave phone in boot of the car. Check it again when leaving the bar to drive home. So 4 hours if the maximum that I've been "uncontactable".


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## MadAdey (Aug 14, 2012)

Smiffy said:



			Do what I do Adey. Last thing before heading for the tee is check my mobile phone. No calls, then pop it in the boot of the car. Play my round and take clubs back to the car. 4 hours or less (hopefully). Check phone. Any calls? Reply to them before heading into the bar. No calls? Leave phone in boot of the car. Check it again when leaving the bar to drive home. So 4 hours if the maximum that I've been "uncontactable".
		
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This is tough subject smiffy. In 20 years of playing I have never needed to be contacted that urgent on the course, but last year I had not gone golfing as it was mothers day. Now if I had been on the course then I would have received a call of up most urgency while playing. Not getting that call for another 4 hours would have been an absolute nightmare.


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## USER1999 (Aug 14, 2012)

I can't believe we have decended to the level of boredom where we have 21 pages on whether it is ok to take a phone into the club house, or onto the golf course.

How is the Rangers thread progressing?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Aug 14, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			I can't believe we have decended to the level of boredom where we have 21 pages on whether it is ok to take a phone into the club house, or onto the golf course.

How is the Rangers thread progressing?
		
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Don't you mean the The Rangers thread. I think the The Rangers players have been spending too much time on the golf course.


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## GTO NEMESIS (Aug 14, 2012)

PieMan said:



			My place has a pretty relaxed attitude to phones in the clubhouse, i.e. on silent or vibrate, but if you actually want to speak to someone then it must be done outside out of respect to others using the clubhouse. I think that this works well and is a sensible attitude to modern communications. 

In terms of clubhouse / course rules, then I am very much of the opinion that any visitor must respect the rules / codes of conduct set by the club. If anyone disagrees with a clubs policies then there is a very simple answer - don't play there!
		
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Sounds very much like my club.
You can use a phone but it can't make noise and you don't talk on it in the club house.

Richings Park is pretty relaxed with modern technology and thanks to that I often do a bit of work from their on my laptop while having lunch and a drink - which I'm sure helps keep the doors open.

I wouldn't make a call in a pub or a restaurant so I certainly wouldn't do it at the club house.


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