# JT



## thecraw (Jul 9, 2012)

Hope you go to jail, how you can lie about what you clearly said is quite unbelievable. 

Be a man, own up, apologise and work towards ending racism. A player of your calibre has enough influence to put out a strong anti-racism message!


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## Stuart_C (Jul 9, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Hope you go to jail, how you can lie about what you clearly said is quite unbelievable. 

Be a man, own up, apologise and work towards ending racism. A player of your calibre has enough influence to put out a strong anti-racism message!
		
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What if he is actually a racist fella who believes what he said is ok?

Maybe he doesn't want to be an integral part of clearing racism in football, hence his total denial.


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## pbrown7582 (Jul 9, 2012)

thecraw said:



			Hope you go to jail, how you can lie about what you clearly said is quite unbelievable. 

Be a man, own up, apologise and work towards ending racism. A player of your calibre has enough influence to put out a strong anti-racism message!
		
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Well said, can't see it happening though.


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## Scottjd1 (Jul 9, 2012)

If guilty he can only get a fine, Max Â£2500!


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## bladeplayer (Jul 9, 2012)

ya know what i find pecular about some aspects of racism tho, &  i will say SOME because people SHOULD NOT be discriminated against because of race or religion or sexual orientation ..  

Nobody seems to care that terry (muppet i cant stand anyhow) calles him the c word... if he had just used that word would there be a problem here ? is it just a problem because he used the word black?? ....i am not trying to defend that muppet terry in any way , im just wondering what ye'r views were on it..

imagine one guy calling  another guy all the rude names you know ok .. 
then he calls another guy the same bad names but adds a religion , a race or an orientation into it .. why all of a sudden does it become a bigger issue ..?
not looking for controvercy or arguments just your thoughts .. 

Mods if this is not suitable please feel free to remove .. thanks


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## User20205 (Jul 9, 2012)

is he racist ? What he is alleged to have said is certainly racist ? 

Could he play in a multicultural team like Chelsea, if he was a proper racist? 

Maybe his crime is stupidity, I'm not defending him, I find him an unpleasant bloke from what I hear. But could he play at a club  where half the team is black with those attitudes.


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## User20205 (Jul 9, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			imagine one guy calling  another guy all the rude names you know ok .. 
then he calls another guy the same bad names but adds a religion , a race or an orientation into it .. why all of a sudden does it become a bigger issue ..?
not looking for controvercy or arguments just your thoughts .. 

Mods if this is not suitable please feel free to remove .. thanks
		
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it a legitimate question. The way I read it is that attaching, race or sexuality to the insult then adds weight to it. It infers that somehow being black is a negative, and historically it has been the case that being non white has meant being almost a  second class citizen. If it takes the law to show this in unacceptable then so be it. 

John Terry should know this and understand this, but does what he said make him a racist ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2012)

Hard to know what to believe when so much media hype and intervention involved. I do think there is no smoke without fire but concerned why Ferdinand waited so long to report it on the behest of his agent if he was that upset at the time


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## leaney (Jul 9, 2012)

He called Ferdinand a 'black c'. 
Ferdinand is black - fact. The word 'black' is not a racist term.
If Terry was racist, would he be good mates with Ashley Cole, Drogba etc etc?
The bloke isn't racist. else he wouldn't have played with so many black players for so many years, without incidents coming out of the woodwork before now.

On a side note, it turns out that it was Ferdinand that started it all and he didn't actually hear the alleged racist slur at the time.
So with nobody actually hearing it, how on earth has this got to court?

Is Terry a complete muppet? Yes. But that isn't a crime.... unfortunately.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 9, 2012)

therod said:



			it a legitimate question. The way I read it is that attaching, race or sexuality to the insult then adds weight to it. It infers that somehow being black is a negative, and historically it has been the case that being non white has meant being almost a  second class citizen. If it takes the law to show this in unacceptable then so be it. 

John Terry should know this and understand this, but does what he said make him a racist ?
		
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as per your point could a real racist hide his feelings enough to be surrounded by black players .. i think not ..


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## User20205 (Jul 9, 2012)

leaney said:



			He called Ferdinand a 'black c'. 
Ferdinand is black - fact. The word 'black' is not a racist term.
		
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it is if it is attached to a negative insult, does using a racist term make you a racist? I don't know. 

I could call you gay, as in we play golf, you miss a 18 inch putt, I call you gay for missing it in a proper school boy way. Does that make me homophobic ?


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## chris661 (Jul 9, 2012)

leaney said:



			He called Ferdinand a 'black c'. 
Ferdinand is black - fact. The word 'black' is not a racist term.
If Terry was racist, would he be good mates with Ashley Cole, Drogba etc etc?
The bloke isn't racist. else he wouldn't have played with so many black players for so many years, without incidents coming out of the woodwork before now.

On a side note, it turns out that it was Ferdinand that started it all and he didn't actually hear the alleged racist slur at the time.
So with nobody actually hearing it, how on earth has this got to court?

Is Terry a complete muppet? Yes. But that isn't a crime.... unfortunately.
		
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You dont have to be racist to utter racists words/phrases, it doesn't make it any less racist though.


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## bladeplayer (Jul 9, 2012)

chris661 said:



			You dont have to be racist to utter racists words/phrases, it doesn't make it any less racist though.
		
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but AF is black .. always has been always will be ..thats not an insult , its a fact & there aint no denying that ..
he called him a c .. in my opinion one the crudest words going , but thats not causing the issue tho is it ?


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## chris661 (Jul 9, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			but AF is black .. always has been always will be ..thats not an insult , its a fact & there aint no denying that ..
he called him a c .. in my opinion one the crudest words going , but thats not causing the issue tho is it ?
		
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As soon as you bring colour or creed into it your are being racist. Regardless of anything else. Or facts.


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## sawtooth (Jul 9, 2012)

If he called him a c*** thats bad enough but by putting black in front of it , its obviously a racist slur. Of course the word black by itself isnt racist but in that context it certainly is.

Mind you I just dont get some the racism thing at times. A bloke on TV the other day when asked what was he most proud of, he answered being black. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but can you imagine the uproar if someone had said proud to be white? There would be a riot - lol


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## Liverbirdie (Jul 9, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			as per your point could a real racist hide his feelings enough to be surrounded by black players .. i think not ..
		
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I think he could "function" if he is a rascist whilst still at Chelsea, especially on Â£100,000 plus a week, as if he went to another team the likelihood is also that they would have black players. There are millions of rascists, semi-rascists, part-rascists, slight rascists within Uk society who live,work,play with people of other races every day.

No man is an island, and most can still alter behaviour, get by, whatever way you want to say it and still harbour their rascist beliefs/thoughts/actions. 

BTW you can swap rascist for homophobic,nationalist,religious, regionalist, sexist,xenophobic behaviour.

I honestly think that all humans have some degree of this behaviour, however small. In the last 10-20 years it has become more fashionable to deny this and behaviour has generally improved (thank God), look at British football crowds as an example.

However, a saintly, holier-than-thou attitude has also taken over and some people try to put on a veneer of "I am never rascist/sexist/all the others mentioned" and I don't believe it of the majority of people.

Just my thoughts.


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## thecraw (Jul 9, 2012)

therod said:



			is he racist ? What he is alleged to have said is certainly racist ? 

Could he play in a multicultural team like Chelsea, if he was a proper racist? 

Maybe his crime is stupidity, I'm not defending him, I find him an unpleasant bloke from what I hear. But could he play at a club  where half the team is black with those attitudes.
		
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This is the whole point I feel. If JT had been man enough to own up admit he was a stupid sausage who got carried away in the heat of the moment, regretted his actions apologised and ate humble pie he would have weathered the storm and been respected when the dust settled for being big enough to admit he was wrong and his actions were totally out of order.

Its all on camera FFS!

Now he's got Ferdinand in the box being called a liar and being accused of doing all this for publicity and money!


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## One Planer (Jul 9, 2012)

Suarez?

What's the difference between the Suarez/Evra episode and this?

Is there one?


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## User20205 (Jul 9, 2012)

thecraw said:



			This is the whole point I feel. If JT had been man enough to own up admit he was a stupid sausage who got carried away in the heat of the moment,
		
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I don't think that's in the character of the man  proper England captain material. 

If he is convicted, where does that leave Ashley Cole, Sturridge etc, Do they still play with him ?


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## Imurg (Jul 9, 2012)

Scottjd1 said:



			If guilty he can only get a fine, Max Â£2500!
		
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PLus an end to his Engalnd career and maybe (hopefully) an end to his playing career too...

Can any dressing room have a convicted racist in it....?


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## Iaing (Jul 9, 2012)

therod said:



			I don't think that's in the character of the man  proper England captain material. 

If he is convicted, where does that leave Ashley Cole, Sturridge etc, Do they still play with him ?
		
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More to the point, where does it leave Chelsea? 
His England career would obviously be over but would Chelsea have the integrity to sack him?


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## User20205 (Jul 9, 2012)

Iaing said:



			More to the point, where does it leave Chelsea? 
His England career would obviously be over but would Chelsea have the integrity to sack him?
		
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I'm sure they won't, he's the heart of the club and he's worth too much to them. I'd be surprised if any team mate takes a stand also. Interesting times though.


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## CliveW (Jul 10, 2012)

What I can't believe is that this was the main lead story on the BBC National/International news (and probably will be for the duration of the trial). 
Is it the most important thing happening in the World today? Personally I couldn't care less.


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## sawtooth (Jul 10, 2012)

No question about it, if he did make a racist comment and found guilty he would be sacked by Chelsea and would never play again for England.

Suarez case is a bit different as he hid behind an excuse, he claimed the word he used was used all of the time and had a different meaning in his culture.


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## chrisd (Jul 10, 2012)

If he is found guilty he will rubbish the court as its a magistrates court, not the Old Bailey. He will claim they got it wrong and it was a stitch up and then he will get on with his football life, after claiming that he will appeal but never quite getting round to doing it!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 10, 2012)

Is the evidence based on lip reading, or did other players actually  hear what Terry said.
It seems a bit strange that this has been brought to court, the evidence seems pretty low quality.

That saying, I hope they find him guilty and that his club do the right thing and sack him. After all, this is what would happen in any normal workplace.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2012)

CliveW said:



			What I can't believe is that this was the main lead story on the BBC National/International news (and probably will be for the duration of the trial). 
Is it the most important thing happening in the World today? Personally I couldn't care less.
		
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Exactly...

Some poor sod got murdered yesterday whilst trying to do the right thing for a fellow human being...

Yet, going by the media coverage we are more worried about the potential hurt feelings of some [by his own admission] foul mouthed footballer... Some freaking mad kind of society we are living in...

Cannot fathom out why this has got where it has... They should've been taken behind the grandstands had their heads banged together and told to sort it out! End of....


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## Lollfred (Jul 10, 2012)

At least the media have forgotten about Andy Murray and his tears now ... but serioulsy, John Terry is a plank, fine him and let's move on. 

Bit annoyed the BBC deemed this more important than: 

1. Kylie & Jason reunion cancelled 
2. Cruise & Holmes settle divorce 
3. Olympic flame streaker 

TV licence binned.


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## Andy808 (Jul 11, 2012)

To be honest it's a farce. He will get a Â£2500 fine as that's the harshest punishment they can dole out which is nothing. All they have to prove is that he had a racist comment with an obsenity in the same sentance aimed at a coloured played. When the court case is over then the FA can have their time with him and the outcome of the court case doesn't make a difference to the FAs decision. 
Personally I can't stand him. I think the court case will go against him and the FA will give him a far bigger fine and a lengthy ban. I can see it being the end of his England career but not his Chavski career unfortunately.


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## Tiger (Jul 12, 2012)

The definition of racism is: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

By making reference to Ferdinand's colour Terry could be deemed as suggesting that the reason that Ferdinand is a C is because he is black. 

Stating that you are proud to be black is no different than being proud to be British, Jewish or Gay. In this instance the individual is associating themselves positively with a particular national, religious, ethnic or sexuality grouping.

The Suarez case is different. The term he used is deemed in some cultures to be a derogatory term of reference for black people. However, in his own culture it has a different meaning. The hearing found that playing football in England Suarez should have been aware of the potential interpretation of the phrase (and in all honesty he probably meant it as an insult anyway).

What flabbergasts me about the Terry case is the claim that he said it in a sarcastic/questioning manner. Probably the most preposterous defence I've ever heard. I also dislike how it is being twisted into the "I can't be racist I've got black friends" argument. For me the case isn't about whether Terry is or is not a racist, it's about whether he made a racist comment, which he did. For me case closed, and let the FA throw the book at him.

The Peroncell affair was bad enough, then came the incident where he parked in a disabled parking space outside a restaurant and laughed about the Â£50 ticket and now this. I just cannot fathom how this man was ever England captain...

...then again with the track records of high profile incidents involving Gerrard (fracas), Rooney (prostitutes), Ferdinand (missed drugs test), Cole (air rifle), Lampard (extra marital affair) I just wish they'd give the armband to Hart (quite possibly a decent role model)

thecraw I cannot believe this but I think for once we are in absolute agreement. I think I need to go and lie down!!!


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## Mark_G (Jul 12, 2012)

Personally I dont think JT is the sharpest tool in the box but if this had happened in a Sunday league match would it be even followed up by Police if reported? What annoys me is when the media describes someone as black or muslim or gay, in fact unless you are a christian white male the media seem to attach a tag to people. Surely if the media constantly tag people its natural for people to absorb that mentality into their lives. I dont care what colour someone is, how is it relevant unless pointing out a difference? Seeing as three quarters of the world seem to be obese (me included), are we soon going to hear in the media someone described as "obese" when mentioning them in an unrelated story? JT will be made an example of, but how many kids will have started using language like that just because JT used it and they heard about it because of the publicity. Kids who previously wouldnt have even seen their friends as a different colour, let alone used it as a weapon.


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## Andy808 (Jul 13, 2012)

If he doesn't get done for this it will be on a par with 'Arry getting away with tax evasion. I think it's laughable that the defence is pretty much relying on the jury believing JT was just repeating what AF had said to him. REALLY? Mind you if a jury can believe that 'Arry couldn't have been guilty as he couldn't read or write then I have no doubt another jury could believe that JT was repeating AFs words and AF called JT a b**** c*** or that the video of JT saying it isn't real and he's saying something else.
Personally I can't stand the man, he's had more headlines for the wrong reasons than he has for the right ones.


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## Monty_Brown (Jul 13, 2012)

The "quality" of the witnesses on both sides is a damning indictment of the state of the game. Pretty much all the evidence given by players has been discredited at some stage.

Ashley Cole is asked by the Magistrates to stand up to give his evidence, but refuses and says he's going to sit down. FFS! Fine him for contempt of court! These people are totally deluded and have no sense of morality or decency. For years they have been cosseted, surrounded by sycophants too scared to tell them their behaviour is wrong, grossly overpaid and they now believe their own hype.

The level of abuse that passes between teams, irrespective of this specific incident, is just vile.


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## Snelly (Jul 13, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:



			The "quality" of the witnesses on both sides is a damning indictment of the state of the game. Pretty much all the evidence given by players has been discredited at some stage.

Ashley Cole is asked by the Magistrates to stand up to give his evidence, but refuses and says he's going to sit down. FFS! Fine him for contempt of court! These people are totally deluded and have no sense of morality or decency. For years they have been cosseted, surrounded by sycophants too scared to tell them their behaviour is wrong, grossly overpaid and they now believe their own hype.

The level of abuse that passes between teams, irrespective of this specific incident, is just vile.
		
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I agree totally.

I hadn't heard that about Ashley Cole but am not surprised.  These people are pretty awful.  As my grandad used to say, "you can't educate sh**e."

More money than sense but for Cole and Terry, the same would be true if you gave them a handful of change.


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## Andy808 (Jul 13, 2012)

TBH I think the "witnesses" were only called in to pad out the trial to something worth calling a trial. In reality the only valid evidence given to the court was the video. What I find laughable about that is they had to bring in lipreading experts to tell the court and the jury what was being said. My 10 year old daughter managed to tell what he was saying. 
I just wonder how muc this has all cost and, if found guilty, will JT have to pay for it?


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## Lollfred (Jul 13, 2012)

let's hope it's the right verdict today and he is found guilty. shame it's only a magistrates court, but maybe the FA will grow some and ban / fine him massively ?


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

Mark_G said:



			Personally I dont think JT is the sharpest tool in the box but if this had happened in a Sunday league match would it be even followed up by Police if reported? What annoys me is when the media describes someone as black or muslim or gay, in fact unless you are a christian white male the media seem to attach a tag to people. Surely if the media constantly tag people its natural for people to absorb that mentality into their lives. I dont care what colour someone is, how is it relevant unless pointing out a difference? Seeing as three quarters of the world seem to be obese (me included), are we soon going to hear in the media someone described as "obese" when mentioning them in an unrelated story? JT will be made an example of, but how many kids will have started using language like that just because JT used it and they heard about it because of the publicity. Kids who previously wouldnt have even seen their friends as a different colour, let alone used it as a weapon.
		
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I am confused, do you think it is the media's fault that he came out with a racist comment?


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## Mark_G (Jul 13, 2012)

No Chris, the point I was trying to make was that this countries media constantly refers to people in groups, black, muslim, gay, etc. I think its wrong, and JT's comment will be copied by youngsters, but they read it every day in the papers. When angry most peoples language is automatic and like a reflex, and if we keep describing people by their colour all we do is keep the next generation saying offensive comments without them even realising it.

I dont read national newspapers anymore solely for this reason, prefering to read information from a local newspaper.


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## richart (Jul 13, 2012)

What a surprise not guilty.


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## chris661 (Jul 13, 2012)

Mark_G said:



			No Chris, the point I was trying to make was that this countries media constantly refers to people in groups, black, muslim, gay, etc. I think its wrong, and JT's comment will be copied by youngsters, but they read it every day in the papers. When angry most peoples language is automatic and like a reflex, and if we keep describing people by their colour all we do is keep the next generation saying offensive comments without them even realising it.

I dont read national newspapers anymore solely for this reason, prefering to read information from a local newspaper.
		
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There is nothing wrong with describing someone or even a group of people as black, white or whatever. There MUST be a level of personal responsibility there, to say that it is the "media's" fault as using a word/phrase to describe something is frankly laughable.


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## In_The_Rough (Jul 13, 2012)

Another waste of money all for a maximum fine of Â£2500 which is small change to JT. Should have locked him and Ferdinand in a room together and let them sort out their differences without all this namby pamby snitching and reporting.


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## full_throttle (Jul 13, 2012)

money talks, enough said


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## Imurg (Jul 13, 2012)

Open Season for Racists now...?


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## One Planer (Jul 13, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Open Season for Racists now...?
		
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Pretty much what I said when I heard.


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## bluewolf (Jul 13, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Open Season for Racists now...?
		
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Only the ones who can afford good representation though. Your average working class racist is still in trouble.


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## Dellboy (Jul 13, 2012)

Right outcome but what a waste of money getting there, should have never gone to court in the first place, what next, a heavy tackle going to court as GBH !!!


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 13, 2012)

He said ..he said............ in the middle of a football park...nobody else heard.
I take it the prosecution officer was an Arsenal fan. Should never have been brought to court.
The saving grace is that most of the world now knows that Terry really is a ...................


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## Andy808 (Jul 13, 2012)

So the outcome of this is if your in football you can do whatever you want in the eyes of the law. 
Case closed and let anarchy rule the pitches.


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## In_The_Rough (Jul 13, 2012)

Hardly anarchy, something that was said in the heat of the moment and JT was provoked by ribbing about him bonking a team mates missus he was bound to respond  in an agressive manner. Sould never have gone to court at all and a waste of time and money. Glad he got off anyway. Everybody knew JT was a bit of a rabble rouser anyway and this trial and verdict will do nothing to sway people either way CFC fans will still love him and the rest wont.


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## TonyN (Jul 14, 2012)

leaney said:



			On a side note, it turns out that it was Ferdinand that started it all and he didn't actually hear the alleged racist slur at the time.
So with nobody actually hearing it, how on earth has this got to court?
		
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It was heard and reported by an off duty Police Officer ( presumably in the stand). 

Surely he would have put it in his pocket notebook and completed a statement. What's annoying is, even though he was cleared of racially abusing AT, he's still guilty of section 5 public order at least and this was ignored. 

The legislation states anyone who uses threatening abusive or insulting words or Behaviour or any visible sign or representation that are LIKELY to cause harassment alarm or distress is guilty of section 5. 

No body actually has to be aggrieved. The fact he was in a stadium full of thousands of people suggests to me that was most definitely likely.


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## Grumps (Jul 14, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Suarez?

What's the difference between the Suarez/Evra episode and this?

Is there one?
		
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Suarez isn't English and his country's captain so the press weren't Gonna hound JT in the same way


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## znuffzz (Jul 14, 2012)

some of the commens in this thread are gloriously ignorant.

the fact that someone, irrespective of the personal weath of an individual, can publicly call a peer what JT called AF and walk out scott free is anabsolute disgrace and a national embrrasment...


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## Fish (Jul 15, 2012)

Rio, who has driven this behind Anton and has a huge chip on his shoulder regarding JT has as always put his big foot in it now also by endorsing a comment calling Ashley Cole a "Choc-Ice" which apparently is a huge insult in the black community.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...d-accused-row-Twitter-attack-Ashley-Cole.html


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