# Real or no real



## ruff-driver (Mar 1, 2016)

These arrived today, legit or not ?


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## Robobum (Mar 1, 2016)

The stamping on the ball doesn't quite look right.


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## Three (Mar 1, 2016)

I would say fake. 
The writing "ProV1" , and the arrows either side of the writing, should run along a seam between the dimples.    The writing on your balls is stamped in the middle of the dimples.


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## Three (Mar 1, 2016)

Robobum said:



			The stamping on the ball doesn't quite look right.
		
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I agree. 
The word Titleist runs diagonally in the photos, it should run in  the same direction as the dimples. 

FAKE FAKE FAKE.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2016)

Look fake


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2016)

Not getting warm feelings about them. Look fake


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 1, 2016)

I say fake, It might be the photo bu the ball looks cheap, the dimples don't look right.


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## Dan2501 (Mar 1, 2016)

As a comparison:


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## ventura (Mar 1, 2016)

If you need to ask then it's probably not a good sign.

Where did they come from?


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## ruff-driver (Mar 1, 2016)

ventura said:



			If you need to ask then it's probably not a good sign.

Where did they come from?
		
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Made at ball plant 4 , thailand, a relative works overseas and sent me them.

I too thought the logo should run along the seam, but some google images seem not  don't play these hence the query

http://www.golfbusinessmonitor.com/golf-equipment/2013/01/how-far-titleist-pro-v1-can-go.html


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## MashieNiblick (Mar 1, 2016)

This is the 2015 ball from GM website




http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/gear/...gallery-2015-titleist-pro-v1-golf-balls-64440

Looks pretty much identical to me.

Why do you think they may be fake?


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## Crawfy (Mar 1, 2016)

Drop a couple into the bath and they should fizz it up just nicely for a long soak after 18 holes


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 1, 2016)

Do they go forum distances?


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## Thexindi (Mar 1, 2016)

Fake its pretty obvious from everyone's comments it doesn't look right from the pictures


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## garyinderry (Mar 2, 2016)

Logo looks completely fine.   colour of the alignment aid slightly off but that won't be represented properly due to the lighting in the photo.


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## USER1999 (Mar 2, 2016)

As others have said, the alignment line always runs along the seam on prov1s. It just does.
On the op photos, the alignment line runs through a dimple or two, this is just wrong.

Fake.


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## MashieNiblick (Mar 2, 2016)

Here's a couple of ProV1s from the dozen I was given by the Titleist rep at the GM Titleist demo day last year at Silvermere for further comparison. Whilst the alignment marks on the others are bang on the line (seam) these are fractionally just above it but definitely along it.




Must say looking more closely at the ones in the OP, I'm now having doubts particularly in relation to the orientation of the alignment mark with the row of 6 large dimples just below it which is clear on the genuine ones in the various photos posted.

Do any of the dimples have very faint letters imprints of letters or numbers in them. The ones above have a Z in a couple of dimples, and a few others have other very faint  numbers/letters. Don't know if that is any indication of authenticity.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 2, 2016)

Now the question is where is your moral compass?  Do you attempt to sell them on on ebay? Do you give them away to mates but not mention they are possibly fakes?  Do you just play with them and more likely than not not notice any difference on how they behave compared to the real ones? 


Disclaimer.  In now way to I authorize or promote any of the above options.  You must not rely on the options I have presented as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or other professional healthcare provider.   If you have any specific questions about the options you should consult your doctor, other professional healthcare provider or Liverpool Phil. If you think you may be suffering from any medical condition you should seek immediate medical attention.  You should never delay seeking medical advice, disregard medical advice, discontinue medical treatment because of this information or take anything I ever post seriously. I don't believe most of it myself.


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2016)

My knowledge of fake or real balls can be written on the back of ball marker,

However all of the above comments relate to the "dodgy" printing on the balls. But I have bought grade one quality balls cheaper because both Taylor made (Tour preferred V) and Titleist (Pro V1X ) printed the balls wrongly. both sets of balls were bought online at reputable golf company's and were advertised as cheap because of rubbish printing.
If that is the case with these balls, it may well be reason why said balls were acquired in the first place.
Not saying it is, not saying it isn't, just sitting on the fence picking splinters out of said Buttocks looking at both sides.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 2, 2016)

The thing that makes me suspicious is that the ball itself looks too shiny compared to the finish on a normal Pro V, almost what you would expect on a rock hard distance ball.

Maybe it's a Pinnacle in disguise?


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## ruff-driver (Mar 2, 2016)

Well back from the course, played with these today,  the pro thought they were real, they played well enough as i don't normally game these, but i'll keep using them as i shot 7 under my h/cap with 'em 

No begging letters please, they are NOT for sale


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2016)

If they aren't real is it not possible they could also be non conforming as well ?


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2016)

ruff-driver said:



			Well back from the course, played with these today,  the pro thought they were real, they played well enough as i don't normally game these, but i'll keep using them as i shot 7 under my h/cap with 'em 

No begging letters please, they are NOT for sale 

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Why not just send 1 ball to Titleist so you, and the rest of us know in the future?


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## dewsweeper (Mar 2, 2016)

Relax phill.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2016)

dewsweeper said:



			Relax phill.
		
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Eh ?


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## Fish (Mar 2, 2016)

dewsweeper said:



			Relax phill.
		
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Ball checkers on the 1st tee :smirk:


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## Tashyboy (Mar 2, 2016)

Fish said:



			Ball checkers on the 1st tee :smirk:
		
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There are people that check your balls? Which rules that? The games beginning to grow on me.

seven under, I thought you said you got them from Thailand not Mexico. &#128513;Well done that man.


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## ruff-driver (Mar 2, 2016)

Fish said:



			Ball checkers on the 1st tee :smirk:
		
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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2016)

Is it not a valid question then ?


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## MarkE (Mar 2, 2016)

drive4show said:



			The thing that makes me suspicious is that the ball itself looks too shiny compared to the finish on a normal Pro V, almost what you would expect on a rock hard distance ball.

Maybe it's a Pinnacle in disguise?   

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Quite possibly, as they are both made by the same company.:thup:


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## Three (Mar 2, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it not a valid question then ?
		
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Yes, very valid. You're just dealing with people  who are prepared to ignore the rules when it suits them. 

Guys, golf balls must be conforming to the rules, fake balls are not conforming if they are unidentifiable, hence these balls cannot be identified as legal for competition play (as they are fake).


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## Oddsocks (Mar 2, 2016)

But when was the last time someone checked whether your clubs or balls were conforming


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 2, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			But when was the last time someone checked whether your clubs or balls were conforming
		
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Just because someone isn't checking doesn't make its ok - golf is a self governing game and it's full of integrity. If there is any doubt about a ball then guidance must be sought until you are clear its conforming - same with clubs


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## Oddsocks (Mar 2, 2016)

Couldn't agree more about conformity, but you have to question how much non conforming equipment is in play


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## Three (Mar 2, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			But when was the last time someone checked whether your clubs or balls were conforming
		
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It is your responsibility to use equipment that is legal within the rules of golf. 
Balls must confirm to size and weight criteria, all genuine golf balls are subject to these tests. 
FAKE balls are not subject to these tests, hence they are not allowed to be used.
If you stand on the first tee with fake golf balls with the attitude that you can get away with breaking the rules because nobody will check, well so be it.


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## Three (Mar 2, 2016)

Oddsocks said:



			Couldn't agree more about conformity, but you have to question how much non conforming equipment is in play
		
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I bet there's absolutely loads. 

I was working in China nearly 10 years ago, there were loads of high street shops full of fake gear then, nobody bothered.   I even unwittingly bought a fake Odyssey putter off ebay not long after that when I was in the UK.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2016)

It is suppose to be self-conforming but I wonder how many people still have non-conforming drivers, or use balls as per the OP. To be honest golf is my leisure time and life's too short to be worrying if Joe Bloggs off 15 is using the right ball this week. Who cares and who is going to ever police it. No-one and because of that some people will use illegal gear. So what


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## Oddsocks (Mar 2, 2016)

Three said:



			It is your responsibility to use equipment that is legal within the rules of golf. 
Balls must confirm to size and weight criteria, all genuine golf balls are subject to these tests. 
FAKE balls are not subject to these tests, hence they are not allowed to be used.
If you stand on the first tee with fake golf balls with the attitude that you can get away with breaking the rules because nobody will check, well so be it.
		
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Ok, let put it another way.  Most people are not forum geeks like ourselves and therefore most would not have half the product knowledge that us forum members have.

On this principle the is no doubt hundreds if not thousands of golfers in the uk alone that are playing fake non conforming product without even knowing.


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## TheJezster (Mar 2, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			It is suppose to be self-conforming but I wonder how many people still have non-conforming drivers, or use balls as per the OP. To be honest golf is my leisure time and life's too short to be worrying if Joe Bloggs off 15 is using the right ball this week. Who cares and who is going to ever police it. No-one and because of that some people will use illegal gear. So what
		
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Absolutely.  Sometimes despite best intentions, it can come across as being a bit silly or jobsworth on here at times.. there are much bigger things in life to worry about!


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## Capella (Mar 3, 2016)

Your milage my vary in the UK, but if I remember correctly, here in Germany balls only have to be on the conforming balls list if the comp announcement explicitly says so. This is generally the case for pro tournaments and amateur tournaments of a certain level, but not for club comps. This is explicitely encouraged by the official rules. Nobody gives a rat's ass about model and manufacturer, as long as the ball is round, has dimples and has the right size and weight. That allows you to play x-out balls and balls from smaller manufacturers who just do not bother to get their balls on the conforming balls list. And I am sure that ruff-driver's balls, genuine or not, do fullfill the specs, even if they are fake.

Just checked, it says the same on the randa website.


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## Three (Mar 3, 2016)

Capella said:



			Your milage my vary in the UK, but if I remember correctly, here in Germany balls only have to be on the conforming balls list if the comp announcement explicitly says so. This is generally the case for pro tournaments and amateur tournaments of a certain level, but not for club comps. This is explicitely encouraged by the official rules. Nobody gives a rat's ass about model and manufacturer, as long as the ball is round, has dimples and has the right size and weight. That allows you to play x-out balls and balls from smaller manufacturers who just do not bother to get their balls on the conforming balls list. And I am sure that ruff-driver's balls, genuine or not, do fullfill the specs, even if they are fake.

Just checked, it says the same on the randa website.
		
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I can't really get my head around what you've written there. 

The rules,  Appendix III, clearly state that the ball must conform to specific requirements as laid down by R&A / USGA testing. 


Titleist balls are checked and have passed, hence we may use them. 

Cheap fakes that have Titleist written on them have probably not been tested to be conforming, hence they are probably illegal for any competition play.


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## Capella (Mar 3, 2016)

What the rules say (Rule 5) is that balls do not have to have been officially tested to be conforming to Appnedix III. It is good enough if they meet the specs given there. So if you want to make absolutely sure, pop your ball on your kitchen scale to assure that it is not heavier than 1.62 ounces and measure the diameter if that makes you feel better. But that is all that the official rules of golf ask for in general. For some competitions the commitee may require that they are officially tested and listed as conforming. 

Or, to put it more simply, a ball can be conforming to all required specs given in Appendix III without being tested and listed on the official list of conforming balls. And in that case you can play it in all competitions except the ones where the committee requires *listed* conforming balls.


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## Hacker Khan (Mar 3, 2016)

Will I be able to play in comps if I have a non-conforming swing as it doesn't conform to any normal definition of what should happen?


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## Three (Mar 3, 2016)

Capella said:



			What the rules say (Rule 5) is that balls do not have to have been officially tested to be conforming to Appnedix III. It is good enough if they meet the specs given there. So if you want to make absolutely sure, pop your ball on your kitchen scale to assure that it is not heavier than 1.62 ounces and measure the diameter if that makes you feel better. But that is all that the official rules of golf ask for in general. For some competitions the commitee may require that they are officially tested and listed as conforming. 

Or, to put it more simply, a ball can be conforming to all required specs given in Appendix III without being tested and listed on the official list of conforming balls. And in that case you can play it in all competitions except the ones where the committee requires *listed* conforming balls.
		
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How do you know about the Initial Velocity and  Overall Distance Standard? 

Sorry, but a fake ball is an unknown quantity, how can you say every fake ball conforms to the rules?


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## chrisd (Mar 3, 2016)

I played for a long while with a guy who turned up one day with a new set of Taylor Made irons. Later in the season the circular disc in the back of the irons started to fall out of many of them, and it was quite obvious that they were fakes - so, did he cheat in all those comps/ was he cheating when he couldn't afford to replace them and continued with them for some while?


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## Three (Mar 3, 2016)

chrisd said:



			I played for a long while with a guy who turned up one day with a new set of Taylor Made irons. Later in the season the circular disc in the back of the irons started to fall out of many of them, and it was quite obvious that they were fakes - so, did he cheat in all those comps/ was he cheating when he couldn't afford to replace them and continued with them for some while?
		
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No, not initially cheating. 
If, and he probably wasn't, he was playing in high level tournaments where the groove rules where in force, it's possible that his fakes could have been in breach.


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## chrisd (Mar 3, 2016)

Three said:



			No, not initially cheating. 
If, and he probably wasn't, he was playing in high level tournaments where the groove rules where in force, it's possible that his fakes could have been in breach.
		
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To be fair, because they were fakes he would have struggled in a very low level tournament!


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## Three (Mar 3, 2016)

chrisd said:



			To be fair, because they were fakes he would have struggled in a very low level tournament!
		
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## Leereed (Mar 3, 2016)

I think if someone knowingly buys non-conforming gear is a different ball game, as to someone who buys a second driver or gets given some balls.Would any non-conforming gear make a difference to your average club golfer?
A crap swing will result in a crap shot regardless of the gear conforming or non-conforming.


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## palindromicbob (Mar 3, 2016)

Three said:



			How do you know about the Initial Velocity and  Overall Distance Standard? 

Sorry, but a fake ball is an unknown quantity, how can you say every fake ball conforms to the rules?
		
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Unless it's really obvious then this really is only an issue when the list of conforming balls condition of competition is in place.  

"Where the List is not operational it is assumed that any particular individual ball conforms to the Rules unless there is strong evidence that it does not."

This is regardless of wether if it's been sent for testing or not.  If there is a doubt it's not up to the party using the ball to prove it is conforming but the ones saying it isn't to prove it isn't.    

Refurbs, x-outs etc all fall foul is this condition is in place but are generally fine if it isn't.


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## palindromicbob (Mar 3, 2016)

On another note and the only example I can think of from the top of my head.  The list of conforming balls changes from time to time and some drop of the list.  

In November 2013 the Dunlop DP1 appeared on the list of conforming balls.  
http://www.mydogghouse.com/Golfball list 2009/November 2013.pdf

It's not on the list now but it didn't suddenly change and magically start breeching the rules.  For all intents and purposes it meets the requirements of the rules under Appendix III it just isn't on the list anymore.  So no problem as long as conditions of competition with relation to ball aren't in place and really would you say I'm cheating if I used one of those???


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## palindromicbob (Mar 3, 2016)

Found a test for you Ruff-driver. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D-mo8qBeGA


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