# Ignorance on the course



## louise_a (Dec 9, 2013)

Mondays are always quiet at Ellesmere and I set of today on my own with a couple of clear holes in front of me. There was a chap in front of me who I gradually caught up with and on the 10th I had to wait while he putted out. As I played to the green and putted out myself he was stood on an adjacent green chatting to one of the grounds staff. 

As I left the green he then walked to the 11th tee, I thought, oh, he is going to ask if I want to play with him or let me through, but no, he teed up and drove off just as I reached the tee and started to walk after his ball. I shouted "excuse me" but he ignored me despite me shouting again. He then proceeded to hold me up on every shot. He even walked past me a couple of holes later and just kept his eyes down and also on another green stopped to talk to more groundstaff.

The was no one in front of him for several holes and he could have easily let me through, but instead he just plodded slowly on his way.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 9, 2013)

Sounds very annoying!!

I had my own batch of ignorance on the course yesterday. I was lucky enough to play the Oxfordshire, much nicer than any course I've played before, but the only tee time was 12.10, cutting it fine with the daylight.

We teed off as the group before us left the first green, not a problem. Kept at that distance consistently, so no waiting on a shot, good pace etc, up until the 12th. Got to the end of the 12th, and saw a 2 ball (we were following a 4 ball) on the 13th tee. Eventually we worked out that everyone for the last few groups had gone into the halfway house, (after the 12th), so we had to copy while we waited for the 4ball ahead to tee off and clear the green (par 3).

We barely made it to the 17th (signature hole) in daylight, and the 18th was certainly a challenge!

What annoyed me/us was that in the halfway house, the girl there pointed out that it was completely dead until half an hour before. So that first group, who would have seen a full course behind them, and the sun v low in the sky, thought "screw them, we want to go in the halfway house", thereby holding everyone else up, making them do the same. Most of everyone in front of us was a society, so it was their own mates they held up!! Really wound us up, and took the slight edge off a fantastic course!!


----------



## JCW (Dec 9, 2013)

louise_a said:



			Mondays are always quiet at Ellesmere and I set of today on my own with a couple of clear holes in front of me. There was a chap in front of me who I gradually caught up with and on the 10th I had to wait while he putted out. As I played to the green and putted out myself he was stood on an adjacent green chatting to one of the grounds staff. 

As I left the green he then walked to the 11th tee, I thought, oh, he is going to ask if I want to play with him or let me through, but no, he teed up and drove off just as I reached the tee and started to walk after his ball. I shouted "excuse me" but he ignored me despite me shouting again. He then proceeded to hold me up on every shot. He even walked past me a couple of holes later and just kept his eyes down and also on another green stopped to talk to more groundstaff.

The was no one in front of him for several holes and he could have easily let me through, but instead he just plodded slowly on his way.
		
Click to expand...


Maybe he is gay ?          .. /..........more info needed on this guy .........is he a known loaner or have you upset him , some people just like to play on their own ...............EYG


----------



## Robobum (Dec 9, 2013)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Sounds very annoying!!

I had my own batch of ignorance on the course yesterday. I was lucky enough to play the Oxfordshire, much nicer than any course I've played before, but the only tee time was 12.10, cutting it fine with the daylight.

We teed off as the group before us left the first green, not a problem. Kept at that distance consistently, so no waiting on a shot, good pace etc, up until the 12th. Got to the end of the 12th, and saw a 2 ball (we were following a 4 ball) on the 13th tee. Eventually we worked out that everyone for the last few groups had gone into the halfway house, (after the 12th), so we had to copy while we waited for the 4ball ahead to tee off and clear the green (par 3).

We barely made it to the 17th (signature hole) in daylight, and the 18th was certainly a challenge!

What annoyed me/us was that in the halfway house, the girl there pointed out that it was completely dead until half an hour before. So that first group, who would have seen a full course behind them, and the sun v low in the sky, thought "screw them, we want to go in the halfway house", thereby holding everyone else up, making them do the same. Most of everyone in front of us was a society, so it was their own mates they held up!! Really wound us up, and took the slight edge off a fantastic course!!
		
Click to expand...

Was it in good nick?

Got a 4ball there in Jan on the Â£25 a head deal


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 9, 2013)

Robobum said:



			Was it in good nick?

Got a 4ball there in Jan on the Â£25 a head deal
		
Click to expand...

Very good nick! Luckily the wind was quite calm for their (so I was told!) Greens were lovely, fairways decent. I was very very impressed, enjoy! Fingers crossed it's not windy, I couldn't imagine how hard that would be!


----------



## chellie (Dec 9, 2013)

louise_a said:



			Mondays are always quiet at Ellesmere and I set of today on my own with a couple of clear holes in front of me. There was a chap in front of me who I gradually caught up with and on the 10th I had to wait while he putted out. As I played to the green and putted out myself he was stood on an adjacent green chatting to one of the grounds staff. 

As I left the green he then walked to the 11th tee, I thought, oh, he is going to ask if I want to play with him or let me through, but no, he teed up and drove off just as I reached the tee and started to walk after his ball. I shouted "excuse me" but he ignored me despite me shouting again. He then proceeded to hold me up on every shot. He even walked past me a couple of holes later and just kept his eyes down and also on another green stopped to talk to more groundstaff.

The was no one in front of him for several holes and he could have easily let me through, but instead he just plodded slowly on his way.
		
Click to expand...


Sounds to me like he was one of those men that think women shouldn't be allowed to play golf.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 9, 2013)

chellie said:



			Sounds to me like he was one of those men that think women shouldn't be allowed to play golf.
		
Click to expand...

That's a pretty big assumption, to call a random person sexist, just because he was ignorant. He could quite easily have done the same with anyone, male OR female. If that's your go to reaction, then you may have a chip on your shoulder. Some people are idiots, but they are normally idiots to everyone.


----------



## louise_a (Dec 9, 2013)

JCW said:



			Maybe he is gay ?          .. /..........more info needed on this guy .........is he a known loaner or have you upset him , some people just like to play on their own ...............EYG
		
Click to expand...

He must have known he was holding me up and could have just let me play through if he wanted to play on his own.

He is a member but I don't know him, so cannot comment on his sexual preferences or his possible misogeny.


----------



## bladeplayer (Dec 9, 2013)

Ignorance is a real bug bear for me . il be honest Lou id probably have driven when i got to the tee box .. Now before everyone goes on about playing with someone in range etc i tend to treat people the way they treat me , so if you are ignorant with me expect the same in return .. 




_As I played to the green and putted out myself he was stood on an adjacent green chatting to one of the grounds staff. _

_As I left the green he then walked to the 11th tee, I thought, oh, he is going to ask if I want to play with him or let me through, but no, he teed up and drove off just as I reached the tee and started to walk after his ball. _

Click to expand...

the bit above would wind me up and im normally an easy going enough sort of guy ...


----------



## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2013)

JCW said:



			Maybe he is gay ?          .. /..........more info needed on this guy .........is he a known loaner or have you upset him , some people just like to play on their own ...............EYG
		
Click to expand...

What is the relevance of his sexuality here?


----------



## chrisd (Dec 9, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Ignorance is a real bug bear for me . il be honest Lou id probably have driven when i got to the tee box .. Now before everyone goes on about playing with someone in range etc i tend to treat people the way they treat me , so if you are ignorant with me expect the same in return .. 



the bit above would wind me up and im normally an easy going enough sort of guy ...
		
Click to expand...

Easy going, but willing to risk maiming or killing someone for a few minutes wait?


----------



## bladeplayer (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Easy going, but willing to risk maiming or killing someone for a few minutes wait?
		
Click to expand...

Chris , with the greatest respect i dont want to get into that argument .. thanks


----------



## chrisd (Dec 9, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Chris , with the greatest respect i dont want to get into that argument .. thanks
		
Click to expand...

So why post the comment that was bound to have that question asked?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2013)

Every club has those sort of people unfortunatly 

Some people will always be ignorant of fellow golfers


----------



## bluewolf (Dec 9, 2013)

You should probably be grateful that I didn't come and play with you today Lou. I'm not known for my patience when dealing with ignorance, whether on the course or not. Hope you still played well though..:thup:


----------



## bladeplayer (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			So why post the comment that was bound to have that question asked?
		
Click to expand...

I was explaining what i probably would have done ,

the main reason i dont want to go into it  is that it will take Louise's thread off on a different tangent and her OP will get lost in the heated discussion that will inevitably get closed down because somebody will go to far as per normal in them type threads ..


----------



## louise_a (Dec 9, 2013)

Hit the ball very well thanks Dave, shame we are going onto mats next week


----------



## bluewolf (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			So why post the comment that was bound to have that question asked?
		
Click to expand...

Maybe he thought that if he asked politely and respectfully, he wouldn't be pushed into expanding on it.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 9, 2013)

bluewolf said:



			Maybe he thought that if he asked politely and respectfully, he wouldn't be pushed into expanding on it.
		
Click to expand...

It seems not.

Apparently it's a way of making a completely outrageous suggestion/statement and then refusing to allow anyone to criticise it!


----------



## mcbroon (Dec 9, 2013)

JCW said:



			Maybe he is gay ?          .. /..........more info needed on this guy .........is he a known loaner or have you upset him , some people just like to play on their own ...............EYG
		
Click to expand...

What the f...?

What the hell does his sexual orientation have to do with anything?


----------



## User20205 (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			It seems not.

Apparently it's a way of making a completely outrageous suggestion/statement and then refusing to allow anyone to criticise it!
		
Click to expand...

I do agree chris, if he'd have said 'I'd have punched him in the face' it would have been challenged. You can't say that and expect it to be ignored.:confused?


----------



## bluewolf (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			It seems not.

Apparently it's a way of making a completely outrageous suggestion/statement and then refusing to allow anyone to criticise it!
		
Click to expand...

Criticise away, just don't expect him to respond..:thup:


----------



## bladeplayer (Dec 9, 2013)

therod said:



			I do agree chris, if he'd have said 'I'd have punched him in the face' it would have been challenged. You can't say that and expect it to be ignored.:confused?
		
Click to expand...


Did you not read my reply to Chris in #16 and is this not exactly what is happening ? Louise's OP is getting lost over other comments .. 
You and anyone that wants to can criticise away .. feel free if thats what floats your boat mate ..


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2013)

Really baffles me how people can be so rude. Sounds like you were the bigger person. 
Think I'd have had to have a word with him tbh.


----------



## Canary_Yellow (Dec 9, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			I was explaining what i probably would have done ,

the main reason i dont want to go into it  is that it will take Louise's thread off on a different tangent and her OP will get lost in the heated discussion that will inevitably get closed down because somebody will go to far as per normal in them type threads ..
		
Click to expand...

I don't think a discussion of whether or not it's appropriate to tee off over the head of the people in front when they are showing poor etiquette is at a tangent to a thread titled "Ignorance on the course".

I'd have been incredibly frustrated in Louise's situation, I might even have sought to skip a hole or two to get in front if the course layout allowed it, but I certainly wouldn't have wanted to take any action that is dangerous.

Although you say treat others as they treat you, I don't think being selfish is in the same category as being dangerous, and why stoop to the same level (or worse?). I'd have tried to be the better person, as difficult as that is at times and I don't always achieve it.

I read your post and wanted to reply, I saw you said you don't want to discuss this further, and that's your prerogative, but I'm with ChrisD - don't post on a discussion forum if you don't want to discuss it.


----------



## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 9, 2013)

I wouldn't have been able to bite my tongue, would have said something to the guy. Rudeness and inconsideration for others REALLY wind me up.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 9, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Did you not read my reply to Chris in #16 and is this not exactly what is happening ? Louise's OP is getting lost over other comments .. 
You and anyone that wants to can criticise away .. feel free if thats what floats your boat mate ..
		
Click to expand...

Blade, if you're going to post a statement that is bound to be challenged then you have to accept that it will be. Saying that you are willing to hit a golf ball when someone is in range and therefore could be seriously injured or even killed, is just one the worst things that you could post and I, for one, couldn't refrain from posting my condemnation of your statement.


----------



## User20205 (Dec 9, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Did you not read my reply to Chris in #16 and is this not exactly what is happening ? Louise's OP is getting lost over other comments .. 
You and anyone that wants to can criticise away .. feel free if thats what floats your boat mate ..
		
Click to expand...

Not criticising, just suprised at it coming from a normally level headed fella. You really can't advocate hitting through someone, but if your happy to leave it, fair enough. 

I had a conversation yesterday, with a fella at my place who'd experienced a similar degree of rudeness.  I genuinely think these people don't mean it, they're just wired the wrong way. There are a couple of rude, pompous tits that I know, I think they have problems expressing themeselves, and are socially inept.


----------



## NorfolkShaun (Dec 9, 2013)

Sounds a little like this....

[video=youtube_share;DE3r_CgScms]http://youtu.be/DE3r_CgScms[/video]

Guy sounds a right....... bet your glad you did not get asked to join him


----------



## chellie (Dec 9, 2013)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			That's a pretty big assumption, to call a random person sexist, just because he was ignorant. He could quite easily have done the same with anyone, male OR female. If that's your go to reaction, then you may have a chip on your shoulder. Some people are idiots, but they are normally idiots to everyone.
		
Click to expand...


Perhaps I was quick to post that but certainly no chip on my shoulder. I'm the only woman where I work. However, it's the type of thing that my 87 year old father-in-law and his cronies would more than likely do to a lady golfer


----------



## El Bandito (Dec 9, 2013)

Blimey. This thread went all sorts of odd places. To the OP, I guess most courses have the odd person like this. Not really much that you can do other than report it to the club. Seems really weird that he would simply ignore you. Sounds like you made the best of it and didn't let it ruin your day.


----------



## JCW (Dec 9, 2013)

louise_a said:



			He must have known he was holding me up and could have just let me play through if he wanted to play on his own.

He is a member but I don't know him, so cannot comment on his sexual preferences or his possible misogeny.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like you got away light , he could have invite you to play with him ,  I have known the odd guy that go mad at the sight of women on the course , hairs standing on the back of the neck thing , takes all sorts I guess , just as well there are not many like this around ........................EYG


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Ignorance is a real bug bear for me . il be honest Lou id probably have driven when i got to the tee box .. Now before everyone goes on about playing with someone in range etc i tend to treat people the way they treat me , so if you are ignorant with me expect the same in return .. 



the bit above would wind me up and im normally an easy going enough sort of guy ...
		
Click to expand...

Driven when you arrived at the tee ?!?

Holding people up is annoying but driving off when someone is on the hole still within range is utterly stupid and dangerous.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2013)

We have a few at my club who would rather die than let a woman through, let alone a singleton. Sometimes they can't be educated


----------



## London mike 61 (Dec 9, 2013)

louise_a said:



			Mondays are always quiet at Ellesmere and I set of today on my own with a couple of clear holes in front of me. There was a chap in front of me who I gradually caught up with and on the 10th I had to wait while he putted out. As I played to the green and putted out myself he was stood on an adjacent green chatting to one of the grounds staff. 

As I left the green he then walked to the 11th tee, I thought, oh, he is going to ask if I want to play with him or let me through, but no, he teed up and drove off just as I reached the tee and started to walk after his ball. I shouted "excuse me" but he ignored me despite me shouting again. He then proceeded to hold me up on every shot. He even walked past me a couple of holes later and just kept his eyes down and also on another green stopped to talk to more groundstaff.

The was no one in front of him for several holes and he could have easily let me through, but instead he just plodded slowly on his way.
		
Click to expand...


I think you did really well to keep your cool and remain polite and civil, you kept the upper hand by opening your mind to playing alongside a total stranger but the fact that he could not be bothered to look at you let alone talk to you shows that you were the bigger person. I hope this chap feels embarrassed by his actions and maybe if there is a next time he may even apologise or be more considerate to others on the course. Well done Louise!


----------



## chrisd (Dec 9, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Driven when you arrived at the tee ?!?

Holding people up is annoying but driving off when someone is on the hole still within range is utterly stupid and dangerous.
		
Click to expand...

As I posted earlier Phil, on that we totally agree. Probably one of the worst statements I've read ever!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			As I posted earlier Phil, on that we totally agree. Probably one of the worst statements I've read ever!
		
Click to expand...

I can't comprehend it - it's dangerous and lethal. And it appears not even in jest 

I'll ensure I'm never on the course with him and ensure he certainly never appears on my home course.


----------



## stevelev (Dec 9, 2013)

I would have just missed a hole out and as walking past him, thank him for being so kind as to let a quicker player through. 

Then write to the committee and give his details, and ask for a meeting set up. Shame him


----------



## hoop67 (Dec 9, 2013)

Would definetly have reported him.I have done it a few times in the past.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 9, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can't comprehend it - it's dangerous and lethal. And it appears not even in jest 

I'll ensure I'm never on the course with him and ensure he certainly never appears on my home course.
		
Click to expand...

I just hope that it's something that he posted without thinking and, on reflection, realises what he was saying. Someone could literally die!


----------



## stevelev (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I just hope that it's something that he posted without thinking and, on reflection, realises what he was saying. Someone could literally die!
		
Click to expand...

Well he wont change his mind, so best to let it go. Otherwise it'll be another Ea#@$ t thread


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I just hope that it's something that he posted without thinking and, on reflection, realises what he was saying. Someone could literally die!
		
Click to expand...


Yeah exactly - a bit of bravado on the forum


----------



## 19thagain (Dec 9, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I just hope that it's something that he posted without thinking and, on reflection, realises now what he was saying.
		
Click to expand...

I would agree with the above and indeed the 'come backs' indicated this.


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2013)

Ignorance is part of society in this day and age and unfortunately it's only getting worse. 

A slight bit of over reaction re blade players earlier post I think, making sure he never plays your home course is a bit ott.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Ignorance is part of society in this day and age and unfortunately it's only getting worse. 

A slight bit of over reaction re blade players earlier post I think, making sure he never plays your home course is a bit ott.
		
Click to expand...


Not ott if he was being serious about it


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 9, 2013)

take a bite and pass it on ! :thup:


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2013)

garyinderry said:











take a bite and pass it on ! :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Haha, Gary's posted a funny!!


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not ott if he was being serious about it
		
Click to expand...

Seriously how would you stop him from playing at your home course?


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 9, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha, Gary's posted a funny!!
		
Click to expand...

collectors item! :thup:


----------



## bluewolf (Dec 9, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			collectors item! :thup:
		
Click to expand...

nice one Gary. It's always the unexpected ones that make you laugh!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Seriously how would you stop him from playing at your home course?
		
Click to expand...


Where there is a will there is a way

Obviously without his name it's impossible but thankfully he is in another country 

But i think the comment was made without thinking and he wouldn't actually play a shot with someone in the way


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			collectors item! :thup:
		
Click to expand...

I thought you were way too relaxed to pop a funny one!!


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 9, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			I thought you were way too relaxed to pop a funny one!!
		
Click to expand...

these things happen. lol

did you get your wagon sorted out!  your face was priceless the other day when your man said do you want a part worn one?   it more or less said, why do I want a tyre that someone else doesn't !


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where there is a will there is a way

Obviously without his name it's impossible but thankfully he is in another country 

But i think the comment was made without thinking and he wouldn't actually play a shot with someone in the way
		
Click to expand...

I can understand why he made that comment. Frustration and not to make himself look good/clever etc.

Getting back to the OP there's no way I'd let a woman play through me


----------



## Stuart_C (Dec 9, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			these things happen. lol

did you get your wagon sorted out!  your face was priceless the other day when your man said do you want a part worn one?   it more or less said, why do I want a tyre that someone else doesn't !
		
Click to expand...

Haha I know. I don't usually go there because he's a dodgy eastern block tyre seller but it was late Saturday and I needed my tyre changing.

You playing any comps next year?


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 9, 2013)

It's best to report it.


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 9, 2013)

Stuart_C said:



			Haha I know. I don't usually go there because he's a dodgy eastern block tyre seller but it was late Saturday and I needed my tyre changing.

You playing any comps next year?
		
Click to expand...

I've since been told that some people get their tyres changed yearly if they need it or not therefore there is plenty of good condition used tyres about. Not sure if this is true or not.   The part worn thing had me puzzled too. I had the same thinking as your facial expression! lol

Yeah, ill be playing more comps this year.  Podge, LB and Scouser have me playing at 8 am on Saturdays at the minute. I doubt ill be playing that early in the summer though. I do like a lie in.  Give me a shout if you fancy a few holes at the weekends!


----------



## Canary_Yellow (Dec 10, 2013)

Although this is miles off topic, I understand that tyres from cars that are written off have their tyres salvaged and then sold on as used tyres. In theory the tyres could be pretty much new.

I think blade player made that comment in haste and would never do that in practice. I'm sure a lot of us have felt we'd like to do it even if we never would. Let's move on.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 10, 2013)

Canary_Yellow said:



			I think blade player made that comment in haste and would never do that in practice. I'm sure a lot of us have felt we'd like to do it even if we never would. Let's move on.
		
Click to expand...


If he posted to that effect I would be only too happy. It occurs to me that there might be some on here who read the comment and felt that it's ok to suggest such a thing and maybe try it themselves!


----------



## Slab (Dec 10, 2013)

I think it would be fascinating if just once on one of the etiquette/course behaviour threads we could get to hear the other personâ€™s version of events

Not because I doubt Louiseâ€™s version in anyway but to actually hear the flipside would give us a huge insight into peoples thinking & why it happened the way it did


----------



## Twire (Dec 10, 2013)

I've actually read this slightly different to most folk. From Louises post it looks like they both arrived at the tee at the same time, and Blade states he would have driven when he got to the tee. So no dangerous hitting over people, more just barging in front.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 10, 2013)

Twire said:



			I've actually read this slightly different to most folk. From Louises post it looks like they both arrived at the tee at the same time, and Blade states he would have driven when he got to the tee. So no dangerous hitting over people, more just barging in front.
		
Click to expand...

Mmmmmmm if that was the case Blade would have corrected me and Louise said that he walked to the tee as she walked off the green and then teed off - sorry Twire I'm not buying that one!


----------



## Twire (Dec 10, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Mmmmmmm if that was the case Blade would have corrected me and Louise said that he walked to the tee as she walked off the green and then teed off - sorry Twire I'm not buying that one!
		
Click to expand...

Well that depends what the distance is between green and tee, and if he was as slow as suggested I'm sure she would have been there before he'd tee'd off.

Blade didn't say he would drive over the top of him like it's being insinuated on this thread either. From all the posts I've read from Blade, he seems a level headed bloke, and I can't believe he would put someone in danger like some on here are suggesting. It just looks to me as if he's being hung drawn and quartered for something he didn't say.


----------



## louise_a (Dec 10, 2013)

Wow, this thread and taken a fair few twists and turns!



Twire said:



			Well that depends what the distance is between green and tee, and if he was as slow as suggested I'm sure she would have been there before he'd tee'd off.
		
Click to expand...

I had a 100 yard walk to the 11th tee, the green he was talking on was next to the 11th tee, he drove as I was at the back of the tee bed.


----------



## Slab (Dec 10, 2013)

louise_a said:



			Wow, this thread and taken a fair few twists and turns!



I had a 100 yard walk to the 11th tee, the green he was talking on was next to the 11th tee, he drove as I was at the back of the tee bed.
		
Click to expand...

Whatever the merits of Blade's scenario it wouldn't have played out that way for you Louise.... teeing off while the guy was walking up the fairway, wouldn't that mean you'd be in front of him on the course anyway


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Chris , with the greatest respect i dont want to get into that argument .. thanks
		
Click to expand...


Obviously some people don't respect your request.

I agree your first statement doesn't come over well,however its quite easy saying what we would do
from behind a keyboard,than what we would really do if we were there.
No body actually knows what the situation would have been,unless we were there.
The man might have responded differently if it was another man behind him,as apposed to Louise,who knows?.

I respect you request and I for one will not be requesting an explanation.


----------



## Fish (Dec 10, 2013)

Slab said:



			Whatever the merits of Blade's scenario it wouldn't have played out that way for you Louise.... teeing off while the guy was walking up the fairway, wouldn't that mean you'd be in front of him on the course anyway   

Click to expand...

16yds difference between the yellows and the reds, seems to me from what Lou was trying to get over is, as soon as he noticed her, he cut off his chat with the greens staff and got to the tee and drove off so she couldn't get in front!


----------



## Snelly (Dec 10, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I can't comprehend it - it's dangerous and lethal. And it appears not even in jest 

I'll ensure I'm never on the course with him and ensure he certainly never appears on my home course.
		
Click to expand...


I totally disagree and fully support bladeplayer - I would probably have done the same.


Driving a ball at the group in front is bad manners and not really the done thing but lethal and dangerous?  What utter, utter tripe.  Even by the standards you have set with your other posts, this is a new level of hyperbolic nonsense.   

I agree, it is a teensy bit dangerous, but not much.  Lethal?  I don't think so.  Unless a freak accident occurred.    If someone is 240 yards away and you hit a golf ball at them, in order to actually strike them, you would have to effectively hit a hole in one with your driver.  Not only that but you would have to hit them with considerable force and at precisely the right point in order to send them over the rainbow bridge, for example, a ball to the temple at full tilt.   Even if you could hit such a shot to such an unerring level of accuracy, the ball will have slowed down to the point where it is not likely to be carrying the force for a lethal blow.  I would argue that it is just about impossible to kill someone who is standing in the fairway at a distance of 240 yards with a golf ball, struck with a driver.  And I am speaking as someone who has been hit with a ball on the shoulder at this range and level of force.  It didn't hurt much and it certainly didn't kill me. Theoretically, it could happen of course, but the odds are ludicrously high. 

That isn't to say golf balls struck with a golf club cannot kill people.  They can and have done.  But only very rarely at that range.  It would be different if someone was stood at 45 degrees to you and you shanked a two iron into their temple from 3 yards away.  They would probably die. 

Or if someone got really annoyed with you, clubbed you to the ground with a driver, took off their belt and in your dazed state, secured your wrists together, smashed your ankles and knees with the bladed edge of a sand iron to render you totally incapacitated then placed you on the ground, teed a Pinnacle Gold up and then belted it at your cranium a few times - I bet that would do it too.  

The odds of the latter happening are quite low but that said, the chances of it happening are significantly higher than killing someone by driving a ball at them from 230+ yards.   At least in my opinion.


----------



## CMAC (Dec 10, 2013)

I'm a pretty good judge of character even from the written word from consistent and frequent posters, not infallable but a good indicator.

Blade has always come across as a respectful person so I'm guessing he was posting stronger words to show his anger at the situation. His comments I also feel are akin to 'a shot across the bows' scenario, or where you say 'I could kill him' but the reality is far from that, it's more a figure of speech.

Bladeplayer, feel free to correct me but I'm pretty sure I'm not far off.


So now can we get back to the OP


----------



## Fish (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I totally disagree and fully support bladeplayer - I would probably have done the same.


Driving a ball at the group in front is bad manners and not really the done thing but lethal and dangerous?  What utter, utter tripe.  Even by the standards you have set with your other posts, this is a new level of hyperbolic nonsense.   

I agree, it is a teensy bit dangerous, but not much.  Lethal?  I don't think so.  Unless a freak accident occurred.    If someone is 240 yards away and you hit a golf ball at them, in order to actually strike them, you would have to effectively hit a hole in one with your driver.  Not only that but you would have to hit them with considerable force and at precisely the right point in order to send them over the rainbow bridge, for example, a ball to the temple at full tilt.   Even if you could hit such a shot to such an unerring level of accuracy, the ball will have slowed down to the point where it is not likely to be carrying the force for a lethal blow.  I would argue that it is just about impossible to kill someone who is standing in the fairway at a distance of 240 yards with a golf ball, struck with a driver.  And I am speaking as someone who has been hit with a ball on the shoulder at this range and level of force.  It didn't hurt much and it certainly didn't kill me. Theoretically, it could happen of course, but the odds are ludicrously high. 

That isn't to say golf balls struck with a golf club cannot kill people.  They can and have done.  But only very rarely at that range.  It would be different if someone was stood at 45 degrees to you and you shanked a two iron into their temple from 3 yards away.  They would probably die. 

Or if someone got really annoyed with you, clubbed you to the ground with a driver, took off their belt and in your dazed state, secured your wrists together, smashed your ankles and knees with the bladed edge of a sand iron to render you totally incapacitated then placed you on the ground, teed a Pinnacle Gold up and then belted it at your cranium a few times - I bet that would do it too.  

The odds of the latter happening are quite low but that said, the chances of it happening are significantly higher than killing someone by driving a ball at them from 230+ yards.   At least in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Who's mentioned 240yds, if he JUST tee'd off and was only 50,60,75yds in front of Lou and she tee'd off, or Bladerunner tee'd off and that ball hit the back of his head, are you saying that's not dangerous! What utter cr@p!


----------



## guest100718 (Dec 10, 2013)

plenty of idiots on the course, on sunday as I was just about to tee off, a chap wandered out in to the middle of our fairway to hit is ball back accross to the other fairway from where he came, no wave or nod or thanks, others may have just carried on and driven at him. Stupid man.


----------



## Fish (Dec 10, 2013)

guest100718 said:



			plenty of idiots on the course, on sunday as I was just about to tee off, a chap wandered out in to the middle of our fairway to hit is ball back accross to the other fairway from where he came, no wave or nod or thanks, others may have just carried on and driven at him. Stupid man.
		
Click to expand...

This is a pet hate of mine, some think they have some right of way on someone else's fairway and just wander over when your standing on the tee, and as you say, no acknowledgement or worse, they then walk down the fairway more instead of getting off as quick as possible!


----------



## Snelly (Dec 10, 2013)

Fish said:



			Who's mentioned 240yds, if he JUST tee'd off and was only 50,60,75yds in front of Lou and she tee'd off, or Bladerunner tee'd off and that ball hit the back of his head, are you saying that's not dangerous! What utter cr@p!
		
Click to expand...

I mentioned 240 yards.  

If it was 60 yards then you would not need to.  You would just jog up and have a chat or shout at them to get out of the way.   

Even if you did drive a ball at them from 60 yards, it is not that dangerous.  Well, not if I hit the ball anyway as I tend to hit a driver higher than 6 feet off the ground and if I was going to launch the ball over a person at that range, I would probably tee the ball up a little to be on the safe side.  Admittedly, if it was you playing the shot with your level of play and consistency, it would be more problematic as the chances of you topping, thinning or mis-hitting the ball are significantly higher.   The odds are still in your favour though.  Just.


----------



## guest100718 (Dec 10, 2013)

Fish said:



			This is a pet hate of mine, some think they have some right of way on someone else's fairway and just wander over when your standing on the tee, and as you say, no acknowledgement or worse, they then walk down the fairway more instead of getting off as quick as possible!
		
Click to expand...

he did all of those things. He appeared at where I would expect to drive to then proceeded to walk the entire length of the fairway, I was expecting him to stop  as we were about to tee off, but no he kept walking. Then wanderd out in to the fairway..


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Dec 10, 2013)

HomerJSimpson said:



			We have a few at my club who would rather die than let a woman through, let alone a singleton. Sometimes they can't be educated
		
Click to expand...


A few!
Any males on here remember the last time they waved a quicker ladies match through?


----------



## chrisd (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I totally disagree and fully support bladeplayer - I would probably have done the same.


Driving a ball at the group in front is bad manners and not really the done thing but lethal and dangerous?  What utter, utter tripe.  Even by the standards you have set with your other posts, this is a new level of hyperbolic nonsense.   

I agree, it is a teensy bit dangerous, but not much.  Lethal?  I don't think so.  Unless a freak accident occurred.    If someone is 240 yards away and you hit a golf ball at them, in order to actually strike them, you would have to effectively hit a hole in one with your driver.  Not only that but you would have to hit them with considerable force and at precisely the right point in order to send them over the rainbow bridge, for example, a ball to the temple at full tilt.   Even if you could hit such a shot to such an unerring level of accuracy, the ball will have slowed down to the point where it is not likely to be carrying the force for a lethal blow.  I would argue that it is just about impossible to kill someone who is standing in the fairway at a distance of 240 yards with a golf ball, struck with a driver.  And I am speaking as someone who has been hit with a ball on the shoulder at this range and level of force.  It didn't hurt much and it certainly didn't kill me. Theoretically, it could happen of course, but the odds are ludicrously high. 

That isn't to say golf balls struck with a golf club cannot kill people.  They can and have done.  But only very rarely at that range.  It would be different if someone was stood at 45 degrees to you and you shanked a two iron into their temple from 3 yards away.  They would probably die. 

Or if someone got really annoyed with you, clubbed you to the ground with a driver, took off their belt and in your dazed state, secured your wrists together, smashed your ankles and knees with the bladed edge of a sand iron to render you totally incapacitated then placed you on the ground, teed a Pinnacle Gold up and then belted it at your cranium a few times - I bet that would do it too.  

The odds of the latter happening are quite low but that said, the chances of it happening are significantly higher than killing someone by driving a ball at them from 230+ yards.   At least in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...



you've seen me with a driver Snelly and I could clearly be dangerous well beyond 240 yards and in any direction!


----------



## cookelad (Dec 10, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A few!
Any males on here remember the last time they waved a quicker ladies match through?
		
Click to expand...

Yes and have stood to one side on the first tee as the ladies were playing a comp/match while we were playing a swindle!


----------



## One Planer (Dec 10, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A few!
Any males on here remember the last time they waved a quicker ladies match through?
		
Click to expand...

Not strictly a match.

But

A friend and myself went for a few leasurly holes (9) after work and found ourselves could up by a single player, a lady, on the 8th.

We offered to let her through, but asked if she could join us as she was only playing 9 holes too. no issues there. I found her company quite pleasnat and would happily play a round of gold with her again :thup:

In addition. She inadvertantly let us through on the 3rd as, in her words, was "About 50 yards into the orchard looking for a ball"

We never saw her, she never saw us. We tee'd off and played the hole out and carried on with our round without ever realising she was there


----------



## Snelly (Dec 10, 2013)

chrisd said:



			you've seen me with a driver Snelly and I could clearly be dangerous well beyond 240 yards and in any direction!
		
Click to expand...

For you, it is nearer 260! 

And I will happily stand in the fairway at that distance for as long as you like to see if you can hit me!


----------



## FairwayDodger (Dec 10, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A few!
Any males on here remember the last time they waved a quicker ladies match through?
		
Click to expand...

In fairness I've experienced both and have been quite happily let through on several occasions. 

Unfortunately I have been held up many times and it's often easy to jump to the conclusion that they won't let women through. There are definitely some like that but also plenty, I'm sure, who just won't let anyone through.

Got stuck behind a pair like that on Saturday. Nothing in front of them and me waiting for every shot. They didn't even wave me through when they were in the trees looking for balls, they moved painfully slowly, they had a long chat beside one green after holing out despite me standing, club in hand over my ball back up the fairway. I walked off in the end.


----------



## JamesR (Dec 10, 2013)

I don't think it's right to blame sexism for not letting the OP through, there are plenty of men who get held up by ignorance on the course.

I don't agree with actually playing when someone is within range, but I've certainly thought about it.

What you really need is to be able to wolf whistle, I can't do it but a mate can, and when it's done the people in front always turn around and can't help but notice you are up their chuff. Once they've turned around and seen you, if they still don't let you through you are then well within your rights to put in an official complaint.


----------



## bluewolf (Dec 10, 2013)

Doon frae Troon said:



			A few!
Any males on here remember the last time they waved a quicker ladies match through?
		
Click to expand...

Strangely enough, the issue has never arisen...

I have been let through by Ladies groups though. In fact, I'd wager that I'm more likely to be let through by a group of ladies than by a similar pace group of men at my place.. Maybe thats because I play just after the Senior Chuck-in every Tuesday/Thursday..


----------



## chrisd (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			For you, it is nearer 260! 

And I will happily stand in the fairway at that distance for as long as you like to see if you can hit me!
		
Click to expand...




That's a forum meet we really must sort out!

Plenty of takers I've no doubt :whoo:


----------



## Matty (Dec 10, 2013)

chellie said:



			Sounds to me like he was one of those men that think women shouldn't be allowed to play golf.
		
Click to expand...

I was thinking they sounded like a complete prat. I usually play in a 2 ball and if a single player catches us up we invite them to play through or join us - entirely up to them. Some are just enjoying the game and air and join us, some are out for a quick 9 and want to nip around as fast as possible.

I would much rather let others play their game so I can play my game without looking over my shoulder.


----------



## cookelad (Dec 10, 2013)

Matty said:



			I would much rather let others play their game so I can play my game without looking over my shoulder.
		
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, I don't see why you would want to hold others up and be constantly aware of someone immediately behind waiting for you, but then there are still those "middle-laners" aren't there!


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2013)

chrisd said:



			you've seen me with a driver Snelly and I could clearly be dangerous well beyond 240 yards and in any direction!
		
Click to expand...

All of a sudden you have changed your tune.
Yesterday you tried to goad Bladeplayer into justifying his comment,Snelly agrees he would
have done the same and you turn it into a joke between yourselves.
Absolute double standards.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 10, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			All of a sudden you have changed your tune.
Yesterday you tried to goad Bladeplayer into justifying his comment,Snelly agrees he would
have done the same and you turn it into a joke between yourselves.
Absolute double standards.
		
Click to expand...


Spot on - it's a personal joke between Snelly and me and I would have thought that was quite obvious!

I made no attempt to "goad" Blade, I had no need to as he did the damage all on his own without my help!


----------



## SocketRocket (Dec 10, 2013)

Slow play does seem to be getting worse these days and not just with Older or Women golfers, many young players are very slow, they want to mimic the way Tour Pros take so much time with shot making and putting.

I think the best way with this is to expect slow play otherwise you just frustrate yourself and spoil your game.  Courses priority is to make money so need to put as many people out on the course as possible.  private members clubs may be a little better in respect to numbers but will still have these slow play issues.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Spot on - it's a personal joke between Snelly and me and I would have thought that was quite obvious!

I made no attempt to "goad" Blade, I had no need to as he did the damage all on his own without my help!
		
Click to expand...

Agreed the last bit was a personal joke,however you failed to comment on his first paragraph where he
said he would do the same[drive off].
You also did attempt to goad Blade into a response,however he rose above that one.


----------



## chrisd (Dec 10, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			Agreed the last bit was a personal joke,however you failed to comment on his first paragraph where he
said he would do the same[drive off].
You also did attempt to goad Blade into a response,however he rose above that one.
		
Click to expand...



I didn't take Snelly's comment at all seriously, I've played golf with him and that's his sense of humour. If he meant it then I apologise for not taking it on face value and wish to state unequivocally that I am equally appalled at what he wrote

Blade however, made a comment that I did, and still, fundamentally disagree with, and did not attempt in any way to goad a response - I just posted my views on what he had written. He said that he didn't want any comments on the statement he made so as not to detract from the OP, but, where others might be happy to let it pass I am not and as it's a forum and I reserve the right to add my views to any thread given that, if you write something then you should expect a response. He has chosen not to state whether or not the posting was to be taken in the vein that he knows I, and others, read it, so until or unless he clears it up, I stand by what I have written.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 10, 2013)

Yes I was agreeing with bladeplayer.  I would not rule out teeing off.  Not least because it would make for an interesting situation next time I am at Woburn as it would mean one of their members wants to prohibit me from playing the course. 

And I am still of the view that doing so would be very bad manners and quite naughty but not particularly dangerous and certainly not lethal.  There is not much difference in hitting a ball 240 yards down a fairway to where someone is slowing you down and hitting a ball 180 yards but 50 yards left of the fairway on to an adjacent hole where you can see that someone is playing and potentially in harms way.   The only difference between the two shots is the intent really.  Both have a tiny chance of hitting another golfer. 

I can't really understand why some of you think it is as dangerous as you do.  It is a golf ball, not a claymore mine.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2013)

chrisd said:



			I didn't take Snelly's comment at all seriously, I've played golf with him and that's his sense of humour. If he meant it then I apologise for not taking it on face value and wish to state unequivocally that I am equally appalled at what he wrote

Blade however, made a comment that I did, and still, fundamentally disagree with, and did not attempt in any way to goad a response - I just posted my views on what he had written. He said that he didn't want any comments on the statement he made so as not to detract from the OP, but, where others might be happy to let it pass I am not and as it's a forum and I reserve the right to add my views to any thread given that, if you write something then you should expect a response. He has chosen not to state whether or not the posting was to be taken in the vein that he knows I, and others, read it, so until or unless he clears it up, I stand by what I have written.
		
Click to expand...

In post 11 and 27 you mention the word kill or killing,which I read as you thinking this could have
happened had Blade done what he said he probably would have done[drove off].
Snelly on the other hand thinks its total rubbish that someone could be killed by driving a golf
ball at someone,albeit 240 yards away.
I suggest you read Snellys post again and maybe respond to it the way you responded to Bladeplayers
first of all,before you have your private joke.
Yet again I suggest double standards.
Oh and by the way I don't think Snelly was joking.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I totally disagree and fully support bladeplayer - I would probably have done the same.


Driving a ball at the group in front is bad manners and not really the done thing but lethal and dangerous?  What utter, utter tripe.  Even by the standards you have set with your other posts, this is a new level of hyperbolic nonsense.   

I agree, it is a teensy bit dangerous, but not much.  Lethal?  I don't think so.  Unless a freak accident occurred.    If someone is 240 yards away and you hit a golf ball at them, in order to actually strike them, you would have to effectively hit a hole in one with your driver.  Not only that but you would have to hit them with considerable force and at precisely the right point in order to send them over the rainbow bridge, for example, a ball to the temple at full tilt.   Even if you could hit such a shot to such an unerring level of accuracy, the ball will have slowed down to the point where it is not likely to be carrying the force for a lethal blow.  I would argue that it is just about impossible to kill someone who is standing in the fairway at a distance of 240 yards with a golf ball, struck with a driver.  And I am speaking as someone who has been hit with a ball on the shoulder at this range and level of force.  It didn't hurt much and it certainly didn't kill me. Theoretically, it could happen of course, but the odds are ludicrously high. 

That isn't to say golf balls struck with a golf club cannot kill people.  They can and have done.  But only very rarely at that range.  It would be different if someone was stood at 45 degrees to you and you shanked a two iron into their temple from 3 yards away.  They would probably die. 

Or if someone got really annoyed with you, clubbed you to the ground with a driver, took off their belt and in your dazed state, secured your wrists together, smashed your ankles and knees with the bladed edge of a sand iron to render you totally incapacitated then placed you on the ground, teed a Pinnacle Gold up and then belted it at your cranium a few times - I bet that would do it too.  

The odds of the latter happening are quite low but that said, the chances of it happening are significantly higher than killing someone by driving a ball at them from 230+ yards.   At least in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...


Oh what a sense of humour you have Snelly


----------



## Snelly (Dec 10, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			Oh and by the way I don't think Snelly was joking.
		
Click to expand...


I wasn't.

Pokerjoke.  If someone stood 240 yards away from you (or whatever distance would suit you as the point at which your ball comes to earth) how many shots do you think you would have to hit before you killed them with one?   

Or if you don't like the thought of imagining this, then I would ask similarly, if you stood on an imaginary par 3 of the same distance, how many shots would you need to not just get a hole in one, but get a hole in one on the fly? The ball dropping from the sky and slamming straight into the gap between the flag and the hole precisely?

I ask because that is the kind of chance we are talking about here in order to kill someone.  It is a very small target and it is a long way away relatively.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 10, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			Snelly on the other hand thinks its total rubbish that someone could be killed by driving a golf
ball at someone,albeit 240 yards away..
		
Click to expand...

Er no.  It is not total rubbish, just highly unlikely. Or a very, very good shot, depending on the morals you apply to the situation.


----------



## In_The_Rough (Dec 10, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			Oh what a sense of humour you have Snelly 

Click to expand...

This is also the man that questioned my etiquette when I said I had problems with members at various private clubs and who appears to think nothing about hitting towards someone in front.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I wasn't.

Pokerjoke.  If someone stood 240 yards away from you (or whatever distance would suit you as the point at which your ball comes to earth) how many shots do you think you would have to hit before you killed them with one?   

Or if you don't like the thought of imagining this, then I would ask similarly, if you stood on an imaginary par 3 of the same distance, how many shots would you need to not just get a hole in one, but get a hole in one on the fly? The ball dropping from the sky and slamming straight into the gap between the flag and the hole precisely?
		
Click to expand...


I absolutely know you wasn't joking,and im not agreeing or disagreeing with you at all.
What really gets me is double standards.
Chris had a right go at BP but sees your post as a joke because he thinks he knows you.
Well he thinks you have a sense of humour,and maybe you have.
But certainly not in this case,as you say your were not joking.


----------



## pokerjoke (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Er no.  It is not total rubbish, just highly unlikely. Or a very, very good shot, depending on the morals you apply to the situation.
		
Click to expand...

Of course its unlikely,that's why I used the word "could".
The moral of the situation is  "if in doubt don't drive off".


----------



## chrisd (Dec 10, 2013)

pokerjoke said:



			In post 11 and 27 you mention the word kill or killing,which I read as you thinking this could have
happened had Blade done what he said he probably would have done[drove off].
Snelly on the other hand thinks its total rubbish that someone could be killed by driving a golf
ball at someone,albeit 240 yards away.
I suggest you read Snellys post again and maybe respond to it the way you responded to Bladeplayers
first of all,before you have your private joke.
Yet again I suggest double standards.
Oh and by the way I don't think Snelly was joking.
		
Click to expand...



I am surprised that anyone would stand up for Blade and his original posting but I will take no criticism for my response. 

I apologised earlier to the forum if Snelly's post was serious and I read it wrong. Funny old forum that I get castigated more for commenting on the outrageous posting of Blade than he has done for writing it - perhaps I have over reacted to the suggestion that when you're angry with the guy in front of you on the course it's ok to bang a driver at him 

You read the thread how you choose Poker but I do find it strange that if you think Snelly was not joking that you choose to criticise what I have written but don't post separately, in condemnation, at what he wrote??


----------



## TheJezster (Dec 10, 2013)

Our 3 long par 3's, 228, 226 and 243 yards all have the rule that when the group in front are on the green, then you tee off.  No waiting at the side of the green while they tee off, just tee off.

Obviously if you think you might hit someone (unlikely as that may be) you holler "4".

In 3 years noone has been hit. Probably longer, but ive only been a member for 3 years.


----------



## Wayman (Dec 10, 2013)

TheJezster said:



			Our 3 long par 3's, 228, 226 and 243 yards all have the rule that when the group in front are on the green, then you tee off.  No waiting at the side of the green while they tee off, just tee off.

Obviously if you think you might hit someone (unlikely as that may be) you holler "4".

In 3 years noone has been hit. Probably longer, but ive only been a member for 3 years.
		
Click to expand...

Madness that


----------



## TheJezster (Dec 10, 2013)

Why?

As I intimated above, there arent any incidents.  Everyone knows the rules, and only people who have never played there come to a conclusion like that without full knowledge of the course.

Works well.


----------



## bluewolf (Dec 10, 2013)

TheJezster said:



			Why?

As I intimated above, there arent any incidents.  Everyone knows the rules, and only people who have never played there come to a conclusion like that without full knowledge of the course.

Works well.
		
Click to expand...

I've got to say, your description makes me uncomfortable, but I've never played it so it may work brilliantly. I take it that guests are informed prior to playing?


----------



## shivas irons (Dec 10, 2013)

bladeplayer said:



			Ignorance is a real bug bear for me . il be honest Lou id probably have driven when i got to the tee box .. Now before everyone goes on about playing with someone in range etc i tend to treat people the way they treat me , so if you are ignorant with me expect the same in return .. 



the bit above would wind me up and im normally an easy going enough sort of guy ...
		
Click to expand...

I agree with you mate but make sure you have golf insurance first  obviously the pc brigade on here haven't been held up on course by an ignorant individual, hit a good shot and they wont do it again:ears:


----------



## bluewolf (Dec 10, 2013)

shivas irons said:



			I agree with you mate but make sure you have golf insurance first  obviously the pc brigade on here haven't been held up on course by an ignorant individual, hit a good shot and they wont do it again:ears:
		
Click to expand...

Oh look, here's Shivas with a great big can of petrol!!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I wasn't.

Pokerjoke.  If someone stood 240 yards away from you (or whatever distance would suit you as the point at which your ball comes to earth) how many shots do you think you would have to hit before you killed them with one?   

Or if you don't like the thought of imagining this, then I would ask similarly, if you stood on an imaginary par 3 of the same distance, how many shots would you need to not just get a hole in one, but get a hole in one on the fly? The ball dropping from the sky and slamming straight into the gap between the flag and the hole precisely?

I ask because that is the kind of chance we are talking about here in order to kill someone.  It is a very small target and it is a long way away relatively.
		
Click to expand...


The person wasn't stood 240 yards away - the person had just teed off and Blade made out he would tee off over his head.

If you don't think that's dangerous then you are another who shouldn't be near a golf course. 

The initial post didn't mention 240 yards away - so not sure where you are getting that distance from.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I totally disagree and fully support bladeplayer - I would probably have done the same.


Driving a ball at the group in front is bad manners and not really the done thing but lethal and dangerous?  What utter, utter tripe.  Even by the standards you have set with your other posts, this is a new level of hyperbolic nonsense.   

I agree, it is a teensy bit dangerous, but not much.  Lethal?  I don't think so.  Unless a freak accident occurred.    If someone is 240 yards away and you hit a golf ball at them, in order to actually strike them, you would have to effectively hit a hole in one with your driver.  Not only that but you would have to hit them with considerable force and at precisely the right point in order to send them over the rainbow bridge, for example, a ball to the temple at full tilt.   Even if you could hit such a shot to such an unerring level of accuracy, the ball will have slowed down to the point where it is not likely to be carrying the force for a lethal blow.  I would argue that it is just about impossible to kill someone who is standing in the fairway at a distance of 240 yards with a golf ball, struck with a driver.  And I am speaking as someone who has been hit with a ball on the shoulder at this range and level of force.  It didn't hurt much and it certainly didn't kill me. Theoretically, it could happen of course, but the odds are ludicrously high. 

That isn't to say golf balls struck with a golf club cannot kill people.  They can and have done.  But only very rarely at that range.  It would be different if someone was stood at 45 degrees to you and you shanked a two iron into their temple from 3 yards away.  They would probably die. 

Or if someone got really annoyed with you, clubbed you to the ground with a driver, took off their belt and in your dazed state, secured your wrists together, smashed your ankles and knees with the bladed edge of a sand iron to render you totally incapacitated then placed you on the ground, teed a Pinnacle Gold up and then belted it at your cranium a few times - I bet that would do it too.  

The odds of the latter happening are quite low but that said, the chances of it happening are significantly higher than killing someone by driving a ball at them from 230+ yards.   At least in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Where are you getting 240 yards from ? 

Louise said he teed off as she got to the tee and then walked after his ball - Blade suggested he would have just teed off anyway.

If you don't think that's dangerous and lethal I'll ensure I'm never on the same golf course as you.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Dec 10, 2013)

I have to say I read it that way and teeing off as the guy was walking off would be dangerous and irresponsible. For me no amount of being held up would make me do that. I'd rather hang back and chip and putt and just let him wander round. If I'm on my own I am usually trying different shots and not scoring and so it makes no difference to me. If I needed to get round, I'd simply have walked ahead


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 10, 2013)

It should never come to hitting it over the head of someone.   Its just not worth it. 


Put it this way, If you hit over someone's head. what happens at the next shot?    Who's honour is it?   :rofl:    It just gets silly.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2013)

TheJezster said:



			Why?

As I intimated above, there arent any incidents.  Everyone knows the rules, and only people who have never played there come to a conclusion like that without full knowledge of the course.

Works well.
		
Click to expand...

Which course is this at ?

Teeing off whilst still on the green on a par 3 ? Seems madness


----------



## shivas irons (Dec 10, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			It should never come to hitting it over the head of someone.   Its just not worth it. 


Put it this way, If you hit over someone's head. what happens at the next shot?    Who's honour is it?   :rofl:    It just gets silly.
		
Click to expand...

I generally find on the head is best, it clears the way for a peacefull pleasant round of golf :fore:


----------



## louise_a (Dec 10, 2013)

Surprised this thread has made a ton!!

Reading all the posts about driving over his head as made me smile, a he hit his drive way off line and across an adjacent fairway, I could have pretty safely driven off and played my second before he had even reached his ball. I could have but I didn't.


----------



## Odvan (Dec 10, 2013)

TheJezster said:



			Our 3 long par 3's, 228, 226 and 243 yards all have the rule that when the group in front are on the green, then you tee off.  No waiting at the side of the green while they tee off, just tee off.

Obviously if you think you might hit someone (unlikely as that may be) you holler "4".

In 3 years noone has been hit. Probably longer, but ive only been a member for 3 years.
		
Click to expand...


Surely not? Sorry but not Club in the land would categorically say "ah go on with ya, just hit the wee blighter, they'll not feel a ting". Would they?

I couldn't for the life of me stand over a putt for a 2 or 3 (but probably 4 or 5) knowing that there was a four ball prepped with there drivers/fairway woods etc. Surely, surely they ask you to allow the next group to play up?

Sommats not right there?


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Where are you getting 240 yards from ? 

Louise said he teed off as she got to the tee and then walked after his ball - Blade suggested he would have just teed off anyway.

If you don't think that's dangerous and lethal I'll ensure I'm never on the same golf course as you.
		
Click to expand...

I think I have said already but will repeat slowly for you that yes, I agree that it is a little bit dangerous but not much.  As for being lethal, no it isn't.  Golf course deaths would be a bit more common if this situation had even a remote degree of lethality to it. 

As for ensuring you are never on the same course as me - many thanks.  That is most thoughtful.  From your posts, I hadn't concluded that you were so self-aware.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

louise_a said:



			Surprised this thread has made a ton!!

Reading all the posts about driving over his head as made me smile, a he hit his drive way off line and across an adjacent fairway, I could have pretty safely driven off and played my second before he had even reached his ball. I could have but I didn't.
		
Click to expand...

You perhaps should have.  I would have done - 100% definitely.


----------



## richy (Dec 11, 2013)

I can honestly say I'm almost certain that if someone drove over my head, their ball would be in my pocket as soon as I'd reached it (as long as it was decent). If not then it would be in the bushes/water/trees etc


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			It should never come to hitting it over the head of someone.   Its just not worth it. 


Put it this way, If you hit over someone's head. what happens at the next shot?    Who's honour is it?   :rofl:    It just gets silly.
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree!

If anyone knowingly hit over my head, then they wouldn't find their ball. I'm prepared to make an exception if it's onto a green over 300yds from the tee!


----------



## shivas irons (Dec 11, 2013)

Foxholer said:



			Totally agree!

If anyone knowingly hit over my head, then they wouldn't find their ball. I'm prepared to make an exception if it's onto a green over 300yds from the tee!

Click to expand...

Well thats certainly not in the rules of the game and would indeed incourage one to put a letter together to the club secretary....


----------



## TheJezster (Dec 11, 2013)

Odvan said:



			Surely not? Sorry but not Club in the land would categorically say "ah go on with ya, just hit the wee blighter, they'll not feel a ting". Would they?

I couldn't for the life of me stand over a putt for a 2 or 3 (but probably 4 or 5) knowing that there was a four ball prepped with there drivers/fairway woods etc. Surely, surely they ask you to allow the next group to play up?

Sommats not right there?
		
Click to expand...

Surely yes, as I mentioned above!

Also as I mentioned, it works well without any incidents.  You cant very well say something not right when you havent played the course now can you?  

It's Wimbledon Common/London Scottish.  There are 3 220+ yard par 3's where this is the case, the 1st being one of them.

It really isnt an issue, but generally I have found that your's can be a normal reaction for someone who hasnt played there before.  Once you have played you get used to it.  As I said, there really arent any incidents, and if you do get your tee shot close to the greem you simply shout 4.  At 240 yards you are not going to pitch your tee shot directly onto a small green, it will run up.


----------



## garyinderry (Dec 11, 2013)

some people could definitely make that carry.   I wouldn't even be too fond of a ball pitching 20 yards behind me as I am about to putt.  

Another issue is that if the sun is directly behind those teeing off it could make it impossible to see the ball in the air as it heads for the green. 

Its a silly practice imo. I would happier wait on the tee until its clear. 

The whole practice goes against everything I have been taught. I do not want to attempt to hit a green with people on it!


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 11, 2013)

At that distance, the safest place for them when I'm teeing off is the middle of the green! If they waited to once side, they are much more likely to be hit!


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			I can't comprehend it - it's dangerous and lethal. And it appears not even in jest 

I'll ensure I'm never on the course with him and ensure he certainly never appears on my home course.
		
Click to expand...


I totally disagree and fully support bladeplayer - I would probably have done the same.


Driving a ball at the group in front is bad manners and not really the done thing but lethal and dangerous?  What utter, utter tripe.  Even by the standards you have set with your other posts, this is a new level of hyperbolic nonsense.   

I agree, it is a teensy bit dangerous, but not much.  Lethal?  I don't think so.  Unless a freak accident occurred.    If someone is 240 yards away and you hit a golf ball at them, in order to actually strike them, you would have to effectively hit a hole in one with your driver.  Not only that but you would have to hit them with considerable force and at precisely the right point in order to send them over the rainbow bridge, for example, a ball to the temple at full tilt.   Even if you could hit such a shot to such an unerring level of accuracy, the ball will have slowed down to the point where it is not likely to be carrying the force for a lethal blow.  I would argue that it is just about impossible to kill someone who is standing in the fairway at a distance of 240 yards with a golf ball, struck with a driver.  And I am speaking as someone who has been hit with a ball on the shoulder at this range and level of force.  It didn't hurt much and it certainly didn't kill me. Theoretically, it could happen of course, but the odds are ludicrously high. 

That isn't to say golf balls struck with a golf club cannot kill people.  They can and have done.  But only very rarely at that range.  It would be different if someone was stood at 45 degrees to you and you shanked a two iron into their temple from 3 yards away.  They would probably die. 

Or if someone got really annoyed with you, clubbed you to the ground with a driver, took off their belt and in your dazed state, secured your wrists together, smashed your ankles and knees with the bladed edge of a sand iron to render you totally incapacitated then placed you on the ground, teed a Pinnacle Gold up and then belted it at your cranium a few times - I bet that would do it too.  

The odds of the latter happening are quite low but that said, the chances of it happening are significantly higher than killing someone by driving a ball at them from 230+ yards.   At least in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

A fairly well reasoned argument (the Hole-in-one comparison is wrong) by Snelly. But from an entirely erroneous point of view.

If someone is aiming at me on a Golf Course, then they don't belong on a Golf Course in the first place!

And it's the possibility of hitting someone, not the likelihood that is of concern. I've seen the results of a few 'on the full' strikes. One guy is still not fully recovered after 8 months; another is permanently affected - lost an eye!

So, notwithstanding applying the 'potentially' prefix to 'Lethal', I agree with LiverpoolPhil on this one.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2013)

to point of OP - when you get near him - as you will as you approach a green and he leaves the next tee - just say words along the lines of "Hi - nice day - I'm scooting round and don't really want to be up your backside all the time hassling you - it'll be OK then if I just play through in a minute? - I'll be out of your way in no time"

But you absolutely DON'T deliberately hit a ball when he is in range.  Apart from anything else - at my course you will be in complete contravention of the agreement that you as a member or visitor have to sign up to in respect of reducing the risk of hitting another player.   Visitors are now asked to read our hole-by-hole risk assessment prior to playing - you are assumed to have read it and therefore agree to abide by it.  You and only you are therefore responsible for any injuries caused on the course by reckless behaviour.  Deliberately hitting into a player or group in front for whatever reason is just a no-no.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2013)

TheJezster said:



			Our 3 long par 3's, 228, 226 and 243 yards all have the rule that when the group in front are on the green, then you tee off.  No waiting at the side of the green while they tee off, just tee off.

Obviously if you think you might hit someone (unlikely as that may be) you holler "4".

In 3 years noone has been hit. Probably longer, but ive only been a member for 3 years.
		
Click to expand...

Barmy - no H&S risk assessment been carried out at your place then


----------



## cleanstrike (Dec 11, 2013)

This made me laugh out on a course last week. I was teeing off from one hole whilst another chap was searching for his ball in the rough between the two adjacent fairways. I sliced to the right and I could see it was going in his general direction so shouted out 'fore' as you do. He immediately threw himself to the ground, curled up in a foetal position, and covered his head with his arms. Anybody watching would have thought I'd shouted 'grenade' instead of 'fore'.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Barmy - no H&S risk assessment been carried out at your place then 

Click to expand...


Barmy?  Yet no-one has been hit. 

H&S risk assessment?  Now that really is barmy......


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			I think I have said already but will repeat slowly for you that yes, I agree that it is a little bit dangerous but not much.  As for being lethal, no it isn't.  Golf course deaths would be a bit more common if this situation had even a remote degree of lethality to it. 

As for ensuring you are never on the same course as me - many thanks.  That is most thoughtful.  From your posts, I hadn't concluded that you were so self-aware.
		
Click to expand...

Teeing over someone's head has the potential to kill them - it's as simple as that

Thankfully the reason why it isn't common is because 99.9% of golfers wouldn't even contemplate doing it let alone actually doing. Golfers tend to be considerate about those sort of things. 

The .1% that would consider it and even would actually do it don't belong on a golf course because they have no due care towards their fellow golfers - they are prob the ones that don't shout fore and the ones that do drive up to you whilst you are playing your second shot - inconsiderate is prob a kind word to use to describe them 

And I am very self aware when it comes to my own safety. Seems some need to be more aware of their fellow golfers safety


----------



## Fish (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			H&S risk assessment?  Now that really is barmy......
		
Click to expand...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2013)

TheJezster said:



			Surely yes, as I mentioned above!

Also as I mentioned, it works well without any incidents.  You cant very well say something not right when you havent played the course now can you?  

It's Wimbledon Common/London Scottish.  There are 3 220+ yard par 3's where this is the case, the 1st being one of them.

It really isnt an issue, but generally I have found that your's can be a normal reaction for someone who hasnt caplayed there before.  Once you have played you get used to it.  As I said, there really arent any incidents, and if you do get your tee shot close to the greem you simply shout 4.  At 240 yards you are not going to pitch your tee shot directly onto a small green, it will run up.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry but I can carry it 240 so can reach on the fly - know a fair number of golfers who would. 

Do people play it more like a call up hole


----------



## Foxholer (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Barmy?  Yet no-one has been hit. 

H&S risk assessment?  Now that really is barmy......
		
Click to expand...

http://www.scottishgolfview.com/2013/03/niddry-castle-golf-club-have-to-pay.html

Yeah Expensive Barmy-ness!

Accidental, but demonstrates the possibility and cost!


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2013)

Foxholer said:



http://www.scottishgolfview.com/2013/03/niddry-castle-golf-club-have-to-pay.html

Yeah Expensive Barmy-ness!

Accidental, but demonstrates the possibility and cost!
		
Click to expand...

Sorry - it is a bit off topic but is very valid in the context.  I am amazed that some think having a formal risk assessment made of your course is barmy!  You do it and review it.  Our 17th hole has the North Downs Way running all the way down it's RHS and tee shots often land on or fly over the path.  The path cannot be seen from the tee - so neither can we see walkers.  If you didn't know - you wouldn't know it was there.  And so we have an HSE notice by the 17th tee telling all players that there is a footpath down the RHS and we should be aware and cognisent of the fact that there may be walkers on the path.  

As it seems an HSE Risk assessment is ott - here's what ours says at the start and for hole 17 - just so you get the gist of it.

_
Each hole at our course has been assessed for potential risk and hazard as below and the assessment is arranged in order from the 1st hole to the 18th.

The risk rating goes from 1 the lower risk to 10 the highest risk. (RR)

The Golf Course risk assessment must be read in conjunction with this risk assessment for full appreciation of our safety controls

*Please note* 
Everyone has a responsibility for their own safety.  As a player you also have a responsibility to  report any accident or incident and near miss where you or a fellow member or guest have suffered injury or which in you view could have caused injury or loss.  This information will be followed up and fully investigated and improvements or controls put into place through our on-going risk assessment process to provide as safe as reasonably practicable environment for all concerned.  Similarly members have a responsibility to make the club management and committee aware of any medical conditions which may affect their abilities in this sport. _

*What are the Hazards?	*HOLE 17
*Who might be harmed and how?*	Players on course & green keepers
Before playing ensure public footpath on right is clear of walkers. Do not play until walkers have cleared footpath. Be aware if shot goes to left there is a risk to players on 15th tee. Playing to green there is small risk to players on the 2nd tee. *RR4*

We also have a general statement of 16 principles we must follow to minimise risk to ourselves and others on the golf course

_*Course Risk Assessment Statement*
Members, Guests and Visitors are hereby advised that comprehensive Risk Assessments have been carried out for all activities and are regularly reviewed, in line with the Clubâ€™s Health & Safety Policy.  In this respect, it your responsibility as a golfer, caddie or spectator on the course to ensure that you adhere strictly to the following:..._

And noting point 12 and 13 specifically for the context of this discussion...

_â€¢	Never play a shot unless the players ahead are well out of range.  If a miss-hit shot is heading in the direction of other golfers, you must shout â€œFORE!â€ in a loud voice to alert players of possible danger.  If â€œFORE!â€ is heard when playing, please take evasive action immediately.
â€¢	It is the players responsibility to report any near misses to the Secretaryâ€™s Office.
_


----------



## TheJezster (Dec 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but I can carry it 240 so can reach on the fly - know a fair number of golfers who would. 

Do people play it more like a call up hole
		
Click to expand...

Ok, you go ahead and pitch it 240 yards onto the small green and see if it holds...  

I know what will happen, you wont see your ball again because it will go through the trees 10 yards past the green.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - it is a bit off topic but is very valid in the context.  I am amazed that some think having a formal risk assessment made of your course is barmy!  You do it and review it.  Our 17th hole has the North Downs Way running all the way down it's RHS and tee shots often land on or fly over the path.  The path cannot be seen from the tee - so neither can we see walkers.  If you didn't know - you wouldn't know it was there.  And so we have an HSE notice by the 17th tee telling all players that there is a footpath down the RHS and we should be aware and cognisent of the fact that there may be walkers on the path.  

As it seems an HSE Risk assessment is ott - here's what ours says at the start and for hole 17 - just so you get the gist of it.

_
Each hole at our course has been assessed for potential risk and hazard as below and the assessment is arranged in order from the 1st hole to the 18th.

The risk rating goes from 1 the lower risk to 10 the highest risk. (RR)

The Golf Course risk assessment must be read in conjunction with this risk assessment for full appreciation of our safety controls

*Please note* 
Everyone has a responsibility for their own safety.  As a player you also have a responsibility to  report any accident or incident and near miss where you or a fellow member or guest have suffered injury or which in you view could have caused injury or loss.  This information will be followed up and fully investigated and improvements or controls put into place through our on-going risk assessment process to provide as safe as reasonably practicable environment for all concerned.  Similarly members have a responsibility to make the club management and committee aware of any medical conditions which may affect their abilities in this sport. _

*What are the Hazards?	*HOLE 17
*Who might be harmed and how?*	Players on course & green keepers
Before playing ensure public footpath on right is clear of walkers. Do not play until walkers have cleared footpath. Be aware if shot goes to left there is a risk to players on 15th tee. Playing to green there is small risk to players on the 2nd tee. *RR4*

We also have a general statement of 16 principles we must follow to minimise risk to ourselves and others on the golf course

_*Course Risk Assessment Statement*
Members, Guests and Visitors are hereby advised that comprehensive Risk Assessments have been carried out for all activities and are regularly reviewed, in line with the Clubâ€™s Health & Safety Policy.  In this respect, it your responsibility as a golfer, caddie or spectator on the course to ensure that you adhere strictly to the following:..._

And noting point 12 and 13 specifically for the context of this discussion...

_â€¢	Never play a shot unless the players ahead are well out of range.  If a miss-hit shot is heading in the direction of other golfers, you must shout â€œFORE!â€ in a loud voice to alert players of possible danger.  If â€œFORE!â€ is heard when playing, please take evasive action immediately.
â€¢	It is the players responsibility to report any near misses to the Secretaryâ€™s Office.
_

Click to expand...


What a total waste of time and money - basically a handbook for morons.  It really does beggar belief.   At least you have something to turn to if the toilets run out of loo roll. 

I wonder what the chapter on "how to make a cup of tea" reads like?   Now that really is dangerous as it involves electrical appliances, boiling water and even naked flames on occasion.    Life threatening stuff compared to playing the 17th hole!


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

Foxholer said:



http://www.scottishgolfview.com/2013/03/niddry-castle-golf-club-have-to-pay.html

Yeah Expensive Barmy-ness!

Accidental, but demonstrates the possibility and cost!
		
Click to expand...

Exception that proves the rule.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The .1% that would consider it and even would actually do it don't belong on a golf course because they have no due care towards their fellow golfers - they are prob the ones that don't shout fore and the ones that do drive up to you whilst you are playing your second shot - inconsiderate is prob a kind word to use to describe them
		
Click to expand...

This sounds like you are describing a typical Woburn member. E.g. retired scrap dealer who cleans his Lexus twice a week. No interest in a golf club, just likes to bang on about his resort course like it is the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			What a total waste of time and money - basically a handbook for morons.  It really does beggar belief.   At least you have something to turn to if the toilets run out of loo roll. 

I wonder what the chapter on "how to make a cup of tea" reads like?   Now that really is dangerous as it involves electrical appliances, boiling water and even naked flames on occasion.    Life threatening stuff compared to playing the 17th hole!
		
Click to expand...

I've afraid you don't understand why a golf club would do a H&S risk assessment.  Yes - to make players (especially non-members) aware - but primarily it is to* protect the golf club from litigation* and to mitigate the risk of the HSE getting involved were an injury to be sustained as a result of the actions of a player on the course.  So that nobody playing the course can claim that 'they didn't know' that - for instance - they should shout fore if their t-shot goes way wide of the fairway on the 17th.  

If the HSE get involved if someone got hurt on the North Downs Way, then the HSE could for instance require our club to build a high fence all the way down the RHS of the hole - or indeed require us to move the tee to reduce the risk of hitting someone on the footpath.  Still a complete waste of money?


----------



## chellie (Dec 11, 2013)

FiL was very lucky not to lose an eye many years ago when a young lad didn't shout fore. Fact that he was wearing glasses saved his eye. Said lad who, I won't name, is now a fairly well known Pro golfer.


----------



## Imurg (Dec 11, 2013)

chellie said:



			FiL was very lucky not to lose an eye many years ago when a young lad *didn't shout fore.* Fact that he was wearing glasses saved his eye. Said lad who, I won't name, is now a *fairly well known Pro golfer*.
		
Click to expand...

Learnt early then.....


----------



## chellie (Dec 11, 2013)

Imurg said:



			Learnt early then.....
		
Click to expand...

Yes.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2013)

...and so as far as playing on long par 3s while the players ahead are still on the green - not at my place - explicitly verboten!

â€¢	*Never play a shot unless the players ahead are well out of range.* If a miss-hit shot is heading in the direction of other golfers, you must shout â€œFORE!â€ in a loud voice to alert players of possible danger. If â€œFORE!â€ is heard when playing, please take evasive action immediately.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Dec 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - it is a bit off topic but is very valid in the context.  I am amazed that some think having a formal risk assessment made of your course is barmy!  You do it and review it.  Our 17th hole has the North Downs Way running all the way down it's RHS and tee shots often land on or fly over the path.  The path cannot be seen from the tee - so neither can we see walkers.  If you didn't know - you wouldn't know it was there.  And so we have an HSE notice by the 17th tee telling all players that there is a footpath down the RHS and we should be aware and cognisent of the fact that there may be walkers on the path.  

As it seems an HSE Risk assessment is ott - here's what ours says at the start and for hole 17 - just so you get the gist of it.

_
Each hole at our course has been assessed for potential risk and hazard as below and the assessment is arranged in order from the 1st hole to the 18th.

The risk rating goes from 1 the lower risk to 10 the highest risk. (RR)

The Golf Course risk assessment must be read in conjunction with this risk assessment for full appreciation of our safety controls

*Please note* 
Everyone has a responsibility for their own safety.  As a player you also have a responsibility to  report any accident or incident and near miss where you or a fellow member or guest have suffered injury or which in you view could have caused injury or loss.  This information will be followed up and fully investigated and improvements or controls put into place through our on-going risk assessment process to provide as safe as reasonably practicable environment for all concerned.  Similarly members have a responsibility to make the club management and committee aware of any medical conditions which may affect their abilities in this sport. _

*What are the Hazards?	*HOLE 17
*Who might be harmed and how?*	Players on course & green keepers
Before playing ensure public footpath on right is clear of walkers. Do not play until walkers have cleared footpath. Be aware if shot goes to left there is a risk to players on 15th tee. Playing to green there is small risk to players on the 2nd tee. *RR4*

We also have a general statement of 16 principles we must follow to minimise risk to ourselves and others on the golf course

_*Course Risk Assessment Statement*
Members, Guests and Visitors are hereby advised that comprehensive Risk Assessments have been carried out for all activities and are regularly reviewed, in line with the Clubâ€™s Health & Safety Policy.  In this respect, it your responsibility as a golfer, caddie or spectator on the course to ensure that you adhere strictly to the following:..._

And noting point 12 and 13 specifically for the context of this discussion...

_â€¢	Never play a shot unless the players ahead are well out of range.  If a miss-hit shot is heading in the direction of other golfers, you must shout â€œFORE!â€ in a loud voice to alert players of possible danger.  If â€œFORE!â€ is heard when playing, please take evasive action immediately.
â€¢	It is the players responsibility to report any near misses to the Secretaryâ€™s Office.
_

Click to expand...


Do you get more strokes on a High Risk hole?

Just Asking.............................



Ill get my coat then


----------



## shivas irons (Dec 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Sorry - it is a bit off topic but is very valid in the context.  I am amazed that some think having a formal risk assessment made of your course is barmy!  You do it and review it.  Our 17th hole has the North Downs Way running all the way down it's RHS and tee shots often land on or fly over the path.  The path cannot be seen from the tee - so neither can we see walkers.  If you didn't know - you wouldn't know it was there.  And so we have an HSE notice by the 17th tee telling all players that there is a footpath down the RHS and we should be aware and cognisent of the fact that there may be walkers on the path.  

As it seems an HSE Risk assessment is ott - here's what ours says at the start and for hole 17 - just so you get the gist of it.

_
Each hole at our course has been assessed for potential risk and hazard as below and the assessment is arranged in order from the 1st hole to the 18th.

The risk rating goes from 1 the lower risk to 10 the highest risk. (RR)

The Golf Course risk assessment must be read in conjunction with this risk assessment for full appreciation of our safety controls

*Please note* 
Everyone has a responsibility for their own safety.  As a player you also have a responsibility to  report any accident or incident and near miss where you or a fellow member or guest have suffered injury or which in you view could have caused injury or loss.  This information will be followed up and fully investigated and improvements or controls put into place through our on-going risk assessment process to provide as safe as reasonably practicable environment for all concerned.  Similarly members have a responsibility to make the club management and committee aware of any medical conditions which may affect their abilities in this sport. _

*What are the Hazards?	*HOLE 17
*Who might be harmed and how?*	Players on course & green keepers
Before playing ensure public footpath on right is clear of walkers. Do not play until walkers have cleared footpath. Be aware if shot goes to left there is a risk to players on 15th tee. Playing to green there is small risk to players on the 2nd tee. *RR4*

We also have a general statement of 16 principles we must follow to minimise risk to ourselves and others on the golf course

_*Course Risk Assessment Statement*
Members, Guests and Visitors are hereby advised that comprehensive Risk Assessments have been carried out for all activities and are regularly reviewed, in line with the Clubâ€™s Health & Safety Policy.  In this respect, it your responsibility as a golfer, caddie or spectator on the course to ensure that you adhere strictly to the following:..._

And noting point 12 and 13 specifically for the context of this discussion...

_â€¢	Never play a shot unless the players ahead are well out of range.  If a miss-hit shot is heading in the direction of other golfers, you must shout â€œFORE!â€ in a loud voice to alert players of possible danger.  If â€œFORE!â€ is heard when playing, please take evasive action immediately.
â€¢	It is the players responsibility to report any near misses to the Secretaryâ€™s Office.
_

Click to expand...

Well I wouldnt play there, you cant even fire golf balls at ignorant people!


----------



## ger147 (Dec 11, 2013)

If you hit someone and they fall over and therefore interfere with your next shot, do you get free relief if you can't move them as they would be deemed an immovable obstruction?  Or does it come under abnormal ground conditions?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2013)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Do you get more strokes on a High Risk hole?

Just Asking.............................



Ill get my coat then 

Click to expand...

I'm afraid not - remember that risk is generally to the public, and players playing other holes.  We have a RR9 - our 7th.  

_Be aware of risk to players on the 8th fairway. Also risk to players on the 7th fairway, green and 8th tee.
Use steps to ensure fairway is clear before playing. Keep to designated path. If attempting to drive the green ensure all players have cleared the 8th tee to the left of green. RR9_

Dog-leg par 4 driveable across the dog leg by big boys with most players playing to a part of the fairway hidden from the tee.  Were we not to be seen to be addressing the risk and were something to happen HSE could require us to build a 100yd stretch of high internal fence (very costly) - or move the tee forward 100yds - ruining the hole.  

Laugh and scoff away at what we have done if you will - but your club won't be laughing if it finds itself in court facing damages charges and then also the cost of implementing measures to ensure the incident is very unlikely to recur.   Just for a second remove your blinkers and put away your anti-HSE meddling outrage and THINK!

As far as a club allowing and indeed *encouraging* players to tee off on long par 3s when players are on the green putting - that is sheer lunacy on the part of the club.  Notwithstanding that the risk of anyone getting hurt on such a par 3 is LOW - were anything to happen anywhere else on the course, the fact that this is allowed on par 3s would demonstrate to a court that the club had a pretty lax attitude to care of players on the course.  And the club would be on a sticky wicket.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I've afraid you don't understand why a golf club would do a H&S risk assessment.  Yes - to make players (especially non-members) aware - but primarily it is to* protect the golf club from litigation* and to mitigate the risk of the HSE getting involved were an injury to be sustained as a result of the actions of a player on the course.  So that nobody playing the course can claim that 'they didn't know' that - for instance - they should shout fore if their t-shot goes way wide of the fairway on the 17th.  

If the HSE get involved if someone got hurt on the North Downs Way, then the HSE could for instance require our club to build a high fence all the way down the RHS of the hole - or indeed require us to move the tee to reduce the risk of hitting someone on the footpath.  Still a complete waste of money?
		
Click to expand...


Actually I do understand and yes, a total waste of money. If, if, if, if combined with risk averse committee types = risk assessments etc.  what about the odds of this happening? Pretty minuscule.


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Dec 11, 2013)

ger147 said:



			If you hit someone and they fall over and therefore interfere with your next shot, do you get free relief if you can't move them as they would be deemed an immovable obstruction?  Or does it come under abnormal ground conditions?
		
Click to expand...

I'm not 100%, but isn't the difference in definition dependent on whether the object is alive or dead? Such that you can move a dead thing, but can't move a living one? In which case, if they're blocking your shot, and barely living, best to just wait until they are moveable.....

Rules gurus?


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Actually I do understand and yes, a total waste of money. If, if, if, if combined with risk averse committee types = risk assessments etc.  what about the odds of this happening? Pretty minuscule.
		
Click to expand...

By this you clearly DON'T understand what risk management is all about.  And in the context of the OP why players should be pulled up by the club for deliberately firing into a group ahead - and therefore why we as responsible players should never do it -0 no matter how irritating or slow they are.  Just ask to play through or report them for slow play.


----------



## Whereditgo (Dec 11, 2013)

I can't help but wonder how all those with such a cavalier attitude would react to a ball being fired over their head, pitching on a green while they were putting out etc!


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 11, 2013)

Seems that Snelly has a problem with people changing shoes in the car park & people that don't have a drink in the bar after their round,however firing a ball over someone's head is fine


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			This sounds like you are describing a typical Woburn member. E.g. retired scrap dealer who cleans his Lexus twice a week. No interest in a golf club, just likes to bang on about his resort course like it is the best thing since sliced bread.
		
Click to expand...

What relevance is that to the thread apart from to slag of the members of my golf club.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What relevance is that to the thread apart from to slag of the members of my golf club.
		
Click to expand...

I suspect he's just trying to be controversial AGAIN. 
Does get slightly boring tbh. 
Word of warning-be careful what you say or you'll end up on his ignore list.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What relevance is that to the thread apart from to slag of the members of my golf club.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing. You've hit the nail on the head really.


----------



## Snelly (Dec 11, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			Seems that Snelly has a problem with people changing shoes in the car park & people that don't have a drink in the bar after their round,however firing a ball over someone's head is fine

Click to expand...

Correct for a change.  Still, even a broken clock is right twice a day eh Pin-seeker?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Dec 11, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Nothing. You've hit the nail on the head really.
		
Click to expand...

So instead of trying to justify contemplating driving over people's heads you instead just decide to insult the members at Woburn

BTW - I have never worked in steel and have never had a Lexus

22 years in the military and an Astra for me :thup:

It appears your judgement is incorrect but I reckon mine won't be far out


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 12, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Correct for a change.  Still, even a broken clock is right twice a day eh Pin-seeker?
		
Click to expand...

Yep & you're an arrogant (add appropriate word) all the time eh Snelly 
But you do it to a very high standard,As with with every thing you do


----------



## Snelly (Dec 14, 2013)

Pin-seeker said:



			Yep & you're an arrogant (add appropriate word) all the time eh Snelly 
But you do it to a very high standard,As with with every thing you do 

Click to expand...

Correct again. Well done poppet. 

I'm in Sheffield over new year. Let me know if you want to meet up? We could go for a game at your favourite municipal or even just a pint? Maybe at your local Working Mens Club or your favourite Wetherspoons??


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 14, 2013)

Snelly said:



			Correct again. Well done poppet. 

I'm in Sheffield over new year. Let me know if you want to meet up? We could go for a game at your favourite municipal or even just a pint? Maybe at your local Working Mens Club or your favourite Wetherspoons??
		
Click to expand...

Nah I'm ok cheers Pal,I suspect it would be like been out with a character off Harry Enfield with you going round telling every one "I do things to a considerbly higher standard than yow" 
Cheers for the offer tho flower :thup:


----------



## DCB (Dec 14, 2013)

Gents, time to tone it down and keep on topic please. there's too much in the way of personal comments flying around for this thread to continue as it is.

Tone it down. You have been warned.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Dec 14, 2013)

DCB said:



			Gents, time to tone it down and keep on topic please. there's too much in the way of personal comments flying around for this thread to continue as it is.

Tone it down. You have been warned.
		
Click to expand...

Ok mate,apologies to Louise.


----------

