# solution for buying a club that i received damaged



## bigslice (Oct 9, 2012)

serious thoughts and opinions on this please, bought a club from someone on here. got the club last wed and it looked fine. went to the driving range thursday and warmed up with my white beast. got the second hand club out and had a wee look at it. noticed it had three different weights in it. 16g 10g and 1g. thought that was a bit strange as im sure the club standard was 16g 1g 1g, this wasnt in the advert but no biggy. so being a bit curious i removed the three weights with my TM wrench as there wasnt one sent with the driver. on inspection the middle hole has a crack in it. i havent hit a ball yet with this club!!  theres me with a basket of balls and a broken driver.
now i have contacted the seller and told him about the club. now ive been honest with my side of the story and he has told me his side. as he says its all about trust and i am NOT saying he knowingly sold me a damaged club. i have asked for his address to send the club back and get my dosh back. (Â£50) 
email back and forth and he has said the club was fine before he sent it but has said he didnt take the weights out to inspect it. i sold two clubs with MVT and took them out to inspect them before sending. 
he has said he wont refund dosh and im left Â£50 squid down and a unusable club.

as ive said to him im not accusing him of knowingly sending a damaged club but thats the situation. 
thoughts please and possible solution or comprimise.
this post isnt to provoke him but for me to find a solution as we both feel we have done nothing wrong. 

and before you ask im not naming till this has run its course


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## Fish (Oct 9, 2012)

How long was it before you reported back to the seller that something was wrong?

Did the seller have the club from new? If he did then he has changed or knew about the weights not being as per the clubs standard issue and as such the situation falls more in your favour as by your description a heavier weight has been replaced incorrectly causing the damage.

If he had it second hand, how long has he had it and was he playing with it recently before selling it and what was the reason for selling?

How did you pay?

If you are not getting anywhere mutually then if you paid via Paypal or through a credit card company then raise a dispute through them and with all the statements and evidence that will be requested and presented to either of those companies, an independent decision will then be made. 

As a retail owner, your rights under The Sale of Goods Act is no different to that with second hand goods purchased than it is for new items!  As such you are entitled to keep and inspect the goods within what is deemed to be a reasonable amount of time and if they are not as described or fit for purpose you are entitled to return the goods for a full refund. 

HTH


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## BeachGolfer (Oct 9, 2012)

Final point first: he should refund you without question. 

If he bought club new, he returns to manufacturer and in all likelihood gets a new stick. If he has purchased secondhand then perhaps he should have checked all aspects (like you have) to make sure it is as expected. If he has had and used for 6 months and has no recourse, he has to suck it up and take the loss or sell for scrap value. Give him a week to do the honourable thing.


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## Fish (Oct 9, 2012)

BeachGolfer said:



			If he bought club new, he returns to manufacturer and in all likelihood gets a new stick..
		
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You never have to deal with anyone other than the person, shop or business that directly sold you the item in question. Your "contract" is with them and nobody else.

The only time that would not come into place would be if that business then ceased trading but you still had a manufacturers warranty and as such you would ask them where to send it to, being either themselves or another distributor willing to act as a third party.


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## brendy (Oct 9, 2012)

Is the club actually unusable with the weight inserted and tight?


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## thecraw (Oct 9, 2012)

Refund mate. 

Only decent thing to do is refund the money IMO.


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## Val (Oct 9, 2012)

Refund, this website is all about selling on trust and passing good deals between forumers. Once the trust is broken then its a sad dday.


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## chrisd (Oct 9, 2012)

I agree with the other guys that morally a refund would be fair and I would hope forthcoming.

 I am certain though that the legal position is quite different. If he sold the goods were secondhand and the seller is not a trader or dealer in golf gear it would have been sold "caveat emptor" which is "let the buyer beware" and so long as he didn't knowingly misrepresent the club then there is little to be done legally. This would be the same if, say, you bought a car from someone privately and a week later the gearbox went wrong.

I cant comment on the posting by Fish about Paypal or credit card chargeback/dispute but doubt that they would entertain reversing a private transaction on secondhand goods - I stand to be corrected

I hope that the person on here reads the posts and agrees to do the right thing


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## Fish (Oct 9, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I agree with the other guys that morally a refund would be fair and I would hope forthcoming.

 I am certain though that the legal position is quite different. If he sold the goods were secondhand and the seller is not a trader or dealer in golf gear it would have been sold "caveat emptor" which is "let the buyer beware" and so long as he didn't knowingly misrepresent the club then there is little to be done legally. This would be the same if, say, you bought a car from someone privately and a week later the gearbox went wrong.

I cant comment on the posting by Fish about Paypal or credit card chargeback/dispute but doubt that they would entertain reversing a private transaction on secondhand goods - I stand to be corrected

I hope that the person on here reads the posts and agrees to do the right thing
		
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The Sale of Goods Act is very clear in that, it does not differentiate between new & secondhand goods so the law of selling is universal.

I am an owner of retails shops for many years so I am very accustomed to the act.


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## bigslice (Oct 9, 2012)

Valentino said:



			Refund, this website is all about selling on trust and passing good deals between forumers. Once the trust is broken then its a sad dday.
		
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it is all about trust and ive said 'im sure they did not knowingly send it damaged'


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## Val (Oct 9, 2012)

bigslice said:



			it is all about trust and ive said 'im sure they did not knowingly send it damaged'
		
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I know you said it bud but if they don't believe YOU then trust is broken, it's a two way thing between buyer and seller.


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## Twire (Oct 9, 2012)

Fish said:



			The Sale of Goods Act is very clear in that, it does not differentiate between new & secondhand goods so the law of selling is universal.

I am an owner of retails shops for many years so I am very accustomed to the act.
		
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*The rules change with private sellers*
If you're buying second-hand goods from private seller (someone who doesn't sell goods for all or part of their living) your rights are nowhere near as strong as when buying from a shop.
The only protection is that it's correctly described and the owner has the right to sell it. Here it really is a case of _caveat emptor_ or 'let the buyer beware'. 
So if the seller says nowt or little about the goods and you buy it, then that's it. Even if it's shoddy, you weren't mis-sold, so have no comeback. Though if they lie to you â€“ you do.


That's a c&p from the moneysavingexpert site on consumer rights.


But the right thing to do is refund.


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## CMAC (Oct 9, 2012)

was the sale done in the GM FS section?

Irrespective of that I'm firmly in the 'refund due' camp especially as its someone on here and probably 'known' so trust is key here.


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## Wolfman (Oct 9, 2012)

VERY TRICKY

The facts about trust are true but the seller and the buyer could argue that the issue wasnt known to them or the seller could suspect the buyer damaged by over tightening the weights etc ( you can see where i am going with this )

It is more likely that both of you have done nothing wrong and the club had this fault but the seller didnt know of it, it happens.

The seller should refund really but you have to maybe expect this may not happen and you may have to sell the club on ( ebay )

Not the right thing i know but one way of recovering your losses

I suspect if you re-fiited the weight and sent it to Golfbidder they wouldnt check that close anyway !!

Hope you find a way to resolve it but this may be hard and you must rememebr the seller may be equally innocent in this as well as the buyer


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## Farneyman (Oct 9, 2012)

Refund without question. As mentioned its all about trust here. 

PM me the persons name so I know not to buy from them in future if you don't get a full refund.

Hope it gets sorted and the person does the right thing?


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## PhilTheFragger (Oct 9, 2012)

Looks like a clear case of nobodies fault, but the club is damaged, the seller should man up and refund

if not feel free to name and shame. 

Fragger


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## DelB (Oct 9, 2012)

If it were me, I'd refund. It's only Â£50 and its not worth losing face on here for such a relatively small amount. As has been said, it's a trust thing. I've no doubt that the seller genuinely wasn't aware of the issue, but that's no reason to pass up on the responsibility to rectify the situation.


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## Jon321 (Oct 9, 2012)

Name and shame

Sort of thing you might expect on eBay or other selling sites but I'd like to think that on a friendly golf forum the seller would be decent enough to refund.


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## USER1999 (Oct 9, 2012)

I can't see how a genuine club head would crack. I've never heard of it before.


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## Val (Oct 9, 2012)

murphthemog said:



			I can't see how a genuine club head would crack. I've never heard of it before.
		
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It does for definate


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## brendy (Oct 9, 2012)

It sounds to me like the weight has been put in and tightened with a torx screwdriver rather than a TM torque wrench and it has driven in a little too far. Id try hitting the club first to be honest.


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## DCB (Oct 9, 2012)

brendy said:



			It sounds to me like the weight has been put in and tightened with a torx screwdriver rather than a TM torque wrench and it has driven in a little too far.
		
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Sounds like this may well be the cause IMO

Anyway, I'm still of the opinion a refund is due.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2012)

Have you actually tried the club? On the one side I can see the caveat empour bit and you bought on that basis. However if you bought it on here particularly, I would hope that the sellet would do the right thing for the sake of a relatively small amount of money. If you don't get any joy you do need to name and shame


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## bigslice (Oct 9, 2012)

brendy said:



			It sounds to me like the weight has been put in and tightened with a torx screwdriver rather than a TM torque wrench and it has driven in a little too far. Id try hitting the club first to be honest.
		
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i currently have a TM RBZ driver with a TM wrench i used to own TM R7 cgb max driver and 3 wood, so i reckon ive done nothing wrong with removing the weights. i DID take the weights out first to inspect before i was going to hit it. very small crack which when you refit the weight is now showing outside the weight. (i am not going to hit this club)

my post is not a witch hunt but me seeking others opinions and possible solution or compromise


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## Imurg (Oct 9, 2012)

This has the makings of a Witch Hunt about it.

There seems to little evidence one way or the other, it seems that in Law the seller doesn't have to refund and yet we want to name and shame him? For no doing anything fundamentally wrong? Morally he probably should refund but he ceratinly doesn't have to.
Not getting involved in the nitty-gritty but it's between the 2 guys

Name and shame and we lose a Forummer.......


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## Farneyman (Oct 9, 2012)

Imurg said:



			Name and shame and we lose a Forummer.......
		
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Looking at from another point if you don't name the person then what is to stop someone else selling "damaged" goods and then not doing anything about it...


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## BTatHome (Oct 9, 2012)

Takes about 5 mins to figure out who it "could" be .... personally it's between the 2guys, I have to say if I was the seller then it wouldn't have gotten to this point.


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## bigslice (Oct 9, 2012)

Imurg said:



			This has the makings of a Witch Hunt about it.

There seems to little evidence one way or the other, it seems that in Law the seller doesn't have to refund and yet we want to name and shame him? For no doing anything fundamentally wrong? Morally he probably should refund but he ceratinly doesn't have to.
Not getting involved in the nitty-gritty but it's between the 2 guys

Name and shame and we lose a Forummer.......
		
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DEFO not a witch hunt!!!! where else do i have access to possible hundreds of opinions and possible solutions. my emails to the seller have been polite. and my posts here are my side of the story. im gutted about the club really gutted (i wont give you the sob story but some on here know it) 
i dont think i should be the one looking for a solution as im down Â£50 and got a damaged club


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## Imurg (Oct 9, 2012)

bigslice said:



			DEFO not a witch hunt!!!! where else do i have access to possible hundreds of opinions and possible solutions. my emails to the seller have been polite. and my posts here are my side of the story. im gutted about the club really gutted (i wont give you the sob story but some on here know it) 
i dont think i should be the one looking for a solution as im down Â£50 and got a damaged club
		
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Hey, not having a go at you.
I just think that the calls for naming and shaming are a bit OTT. If he genuinely didn't know of any damage then he's within his rights to not cough up. Not accusing either side of lying in the slightest.
I have to say, if it had been me then, as BT says, it wouldn't have got this far but if the Guy has the law on his side then revealing an identity doesn't help in my opinion. All that happens is that a Forummer is run out of Town and you're still 50 quid down.

I don't think anyone of us would deliberately offer a dodgy club for sale


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## brendy (Oct 9, 2012)

Regardless of the outcome, the club does have some damage, perhaps whoever ends up with it could contact TM and see if it can be repaired or replaced at a favourable price.
I dont see why anyone should be named (I dont think it has gotten to the shame bit yet) if it ends mutually acceptable.


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## NWJocko (Oct 9, 2012)

Not sure about this thread....

I bought a club from here a while back and after about 4 shots noticed the weight (only one) had fallen out.

I didn't "inspect" the club when I received it, buying second hand has risks which I accept.

I now have 3 choices, get it fixed, use as us or replace.

Disclaimer: this is in no way a dig at the person I bought the club from, they knew as soon as it happened but I was only asking if they had a wrench and/or where I could get replacement weight and do not expect a refund. 

Buying second hand doesn't always work out through nobody's fault.


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## Hobbit (Oct 9, 2012)

Devil's advocate; a postman in the sorting office drops a box on the parcel, impact point roughly where the weight is. Is the box showing even a little crush damage? It may well be that with enough packing the box may not compress enough to show excessive damage but the force is driven thro' onto said point...

Just a thought. And no it wasn't me, honest.


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## Val (Oct 10, 2012)

NWJocko said:



			Buying second hand doesn't always work out through nobody's fault.
		
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And thankfully it's rare we get a thread like this :thup:


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## User20205 (Oct 10, 2012)

the Â£50 should be refunded, the weight has been over tightened previously. I did it to any old R7 i had previously putting in some heavier weights I'd refund without a second thought. 

Alternatively you could come to some arrangement where you get Â£25 refunded, no one loses face, the club gets binned & it's put down to experience


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## brendy (Oct 10, 2012)

therod said:



			the Â£50 should be refunded, the weight has been over tightened previously. I did it to any old R7 i had previously putting in some heavier weights I'd refund without a second thought. 

Alternatively you could come to some arrangement where you get Â£25 refunded, no one loses face, the club gets binned & it's put down to experience
		
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Just the clubhead if that was the case,  sounds like the rest of the club can be reused, ie shaft, weights etc.


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## thecraw (Oct 10, 2012)

I was under the impression that you now can't over tighten a TM club. Once it clicks it won't tighten any more - certainly thats how the shafts work, never messed about with the weight ports though!


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## bladeplayer (Oct 10, 2012)

Just remember tho the sale of good act only covers you if the purchase does not do,  or is incapable of doing,  the action it was sold to do .. 

Have you actualy tried the driver since you notified the seller ? if so & its faulty you have a case , if it works ok then you dont .. 

I must admit tho mate & please  dont take this wrong but to have im just looking at it from a sellers side ..   

the fact you didnt check it til you brought it to the range, id be checking it the min it was delivered to make sure it wasnt damaged in transit , you said the weight thingy was no biggy so why did you take them out to inspect it them  ? 

If you said you hit a ball & it sounded strange then you checked , it would be understandable .. just being devils advocate here , 

for the record , i wouldnt fall out with anyone over Â£50 unless i was 100% positive & id have sent you your dosh back


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## bigslice (Oct 10, 2012)

bladeplayer said:



			Just remember tho the sale of good act only covers you if the purchase does not do,  or is incapable of doing,  the action it was sold to do .. 

Have you actualy tried the driver since you notified the seller ? if so & its faulty you have a case , if it works ok then you dont .. 

I must admit tho mate & please  dont take this wrong but to have im just looking at it from a sellers side ..   

the fact you didnt check it til you brought it to the range, id be checking it the min it was delivered to make sure it wasnt damaged in transit , you said the weight thingy was no biggy so why did you take them out to inspect it them  ? 

If you said you hit a ball & it sounded strange then you checked , it would be understandable .. just being devils advocate here , 

for the record , i wouldnt fall out with anyone over Â£50 unless i was 100% positive & id have sent you your dosh back
		
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re read my posts the club is cracked, i would assume if i hit it the crack will get bigger. and you can assume from the tone of my posts im not accusing the seller of knowingly sending a damaged club. as i can defo see both sides of the story


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## chrisd (Oct 10, 2012)

The Sale of Goods Act does not apply (as I have said earlier) to private deals where the seller is not a trader in those goods. Martin Lewis's web site clarifies this with this statement

        "  However, buy from an occasional private seller and as long as the goods are 'as described', the only rule is "let the buyer beware". "


So long as the seller didnt warrant the club as being in perfect condition whilst knowing it wasn't then you have no come back. 
nSorry also to be the bearer of bad news with TM, but I bought an early driver that had changeable weight bolts and 3 of them snapped, even though the tool was a torque wrench that they supply and should click tight and when I spoke to TM they absolutely didnt want to know as I was honest and said that I bought the club secondhand.

It's back to the seller and hope for goodwill I'm afraid - best of luck!


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## bladeplayer (Oct 10, 2012)

bigslice said:



			re read my posts the club is cracked, i would assume if i hit it the crack will get bigger. and you can assume from the tone of my posts im not accusing the seller of knowingly sending a damaged club. as i can defo see both sides of the story
		
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Yeah but once you have notifed the seller , it doesnt matter if the crack gets bigger or not ,  once  u  used it in the manner it was designed for .. ie hitting golf balls 

Yes i think your posts have been very fair & you are being very reasonable about it .. & as i said if it were me you bought it from id be refunding you .. 

I know alot of guys are saying name & shame & you are not doing so , fair play for that , if for any reason you do decide maybe you should name the person to prevent it happening again , maybe run it by Mike or Jezz in an email 1st .. just a thought..
Full Respect for way you are handling it ...


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## bigslice (Oct 10, 2012)

thats the upsetting bit i havent hit any balls with it, anyway im away to play golf and try and forget about it for a couple of hours.


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## brendy (Oct 10, 2012)

thecraw said:



			I was under the impression that you now can't over tighten a TM club. Once it clicks it won't tighten any more - certainly thats how the shafts work, never messed about with the weight ports though!
		
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That is assuming a pre torqued TM wrench was used, If a standard torx bit and a drill or screw driver were used, it could be overtightened.
Bigslice, I would put the weight back in, tighten it (dont over do it) and actually try hitting a few balls. The crack isnt on an impact area or crown so I cant see it getting worse. BTW get a pic up as that would help a lot.


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## Blademaster (Oct 10, 2012)

chrisd said:



			I am certain though that the legal position is quite different. If he sold the goods were secondhand and the seller is not a trader or dealer in golf gear it would have been sold "caveat emptor" which is "let the buyer beware" and so long as he didn't knowingly misrepresent the club then there is little to be done legally. This would be the same if, say, you bought a car from someone privately and a week later the gearbox went wrong.
		
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In my view the legal position is by the by. If I had sold a club and it turned out to be faulty within such a short space of time I would feel morally obliged to take the buyer's word and refund the money.


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## Blademaster (Oct 10, 2012)

Wolfman said:



			The seller should refund really but you have to maybe expect this may not happen and you may have to sell the club on ( ebay )

Not the right thing i know but one way of recovering your losses

I suspect if you re-fiited the weight and sent it to Golfbidder they wouldnt check that close anyway !!
		
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Both of these suggestions are completely unacceptable. It would be hypocritical to do either. 

If the seller does not refund then you just have to put it down to epxerience. By all means try to sell it on eBay, but only if fully and accurately described.


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## thecraw (Oct 10, 2012)

The detective in me has now worked out from the For Sale section the club and person in question!!!!!!!!


Hope the pair of you work it out, keep it to PM both of you are respected forum members and I hope you can come up with a solution. 

C.


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 10, 2012)

thecraw said:



			The detective in me has now worked out from the For Sale section the club and person in question!!!!!!!!


Hope the pair of you work it out, keep it to PM both of you are respected forum members and I hope you can come up with a solution. 

CID - fixed that for you.
		
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## HotDogAssassin (Oct 10, 2012)

thecraw said:



			The detective in me has now worked out from the For Sale section the club and person in question!!!!!!!!
		
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And that's precisely why this should not have been broadcast to the wider audience.


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## thecraw (Oct 10, 2012)

HotDogAssassin said:



			And that's precisely why this should not have been broadcast to the wider audience.  

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Disagree with you. It's an issue that needs resolved and other opinions are always helpful.

C.


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## MegaSteve (Oct 10, 2012)

Think thread sums up why I won't be selling [or buying] through the forum...

Like selling a car thats served you well for a number of years to a good mate... Then have the engine go BANG a few short weeks after you sold it... Yes, its happened to me ...


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## Blademaster (Oct 10, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong but the seller is adopting one of two stances on this:

1) He accepts that the OP has not damaged the club, but believes he sold it in good faith so tough sh1t!

or

2) He thinks the OP damaged it and is lying about whether he did so.

Which is it?


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## bigslice (Oct 10, 2012)

HotDogAssassin said:



			And that's precisely why this should not have been broadcast to the wider audience.  

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wrong, my tone and aim of my post is to find a solution, the seller is very clear on his stance of it was fine went sent and no refund. its a SOLUTION to make this club usable im after. 
been thinking and talking to someone ' what if if was to pour two part glue into the hole and refit the weight but not fully torqued as it increases the crack.


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## bigslice (Oct 10, 2012)

brendy said:



			That is assuming a pre torqued TM wrench was used, If a standard torx bit and a drill or screw driver were used, it could be overtightened.
Bigslice, I would put the weight back in, tighten it (dont over do it) and actually try hitting a few balls. The crack isnt on an impact area or crown so I cant see it getting worse. BTW get a pic up as that would help a lot.
		
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was thinking pour glue in and tighten weight but not fully torqued


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## MegaSteve (Oct 10, 2012)

bigslice said:



			was thinking pour glue in and tighten weight but not fully torqued
		
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Wouldn't use glue myself... If going down this route I'd use Loctite studlock [its seriously good stuff]... This is assuming threads in the club head are intact...


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## Wolfman (Oct 10, 2012)

I would as mentioned before stick it on ebay but..

List it as the famous GM forum scandal sale collectors item club buy it now Â£100


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## bigslice (Oct 10, 2012)

MegaSteve said:



			Wouldn't use glue myself... If going down this route I'd use Loctite studlock [its seriously good stuff]... This is assuming threads in the club head are intact...
		
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lol i use loctite stuff for gas fitting, the reason for glue was to fill the gaps in the crack


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## Losttheplot (Oct 10, 2012)

Let me come in here and try and clear up a few things since I am the seller of the driver the OP bought....

Just want to say first that If i'd of seen this thread any earlier then I'd of come into it then but I don't get a lot of time to browse with having a 9 month old boy these days.

Before I sold the club in question I inspected the club, advertised it on here and put some pictures up. When I inspected the club I did so without taking the weights out as I would never have thought they'd be an issue inside the club head itself!
(how many people on here honestly remove the weights and get a torch out to look inside the clubhead?? you'd need a boroscope kit to fully inspect the inside of a clubhead to see around the corners etc so anyone who says they fully inspect the inside of the clubhead Id be slightly sceptical) 
I inspected the rest of the club and didnt see any problems with the clubhead. 

As i said to the OP in a PM, I didnt mess around with the weights when I used the club but I did check tighten them (using a TM wrench) before I sent it and also every few rounds, as I do with the other clubs I have with an adjustable setting. 
I never once noticed a crack on the outside of the clubhead where the weights are, I never had any extra movement from the weights when check tightening them and the club never made any funny sounds when striking a ball. The club to me performs as it should do.
To clarify one point from someone elses comments, the previous owner had it from new and used a TM wrench so maybe he put the extra weighted weight in so its not a factory set up in the weights issued to the club. He is a good friend of mine who Ive known for years and I know he wouldnt use anything other than the TM wrench to fit a weight. It was slightly awkward when I asked him about it a few days ago knowing how meticulous he is about his golf gear and how everything has to be good, clean etc (slightly OCD the level he goes to if you ask me lol)

So from my point of view I have used this club for about 12 months (on and off thats why I sold it...) without ever noticing a crack, hearing a bad sound when striking or seeing any extra movement from the weights. 
I have then inspected the club before selling, not seen any damage to the outside of the clubhead where the weights are or in any other area. 
And within days of selling it, Ive been told its damaged... 


Thats my side of the factual stuff out of the way, Im sure there will be odd bits come to me as people post stuff...

I'd just like to agree with the OP that he has never accused me of willingly selling a damaged club, nor have I accused him of directly damaging the club and trying to pull a fast one. The PM's sent between eachother have been polite and Ive tried to remain objective and not make any accusations or assumptions but it is hard when your trying to resolve something like this.

For me this is a hard one because I am a genuine and honest guy and have sold a club I have had for 12 months that I have never hd problems with, know its been looked after since my mate bought it new, looked after it when I had it, Ive inspected it and sold it on knowing there isnt a problem with it. 

I dont know the Buyer from the next person on here, for all I know he could have easily cross threaded the weight when putting a weight in, dropped it on the floor, damaged the club when removing a weight, he could have done a multitude of things to cause damage to the club. 
All I have to go on is the factual information I know before I sold it and a statement from the buyer saying how its now damaged and I am to trust him and refund him and take every word he says as Gospel and the truth. Im not being funny or accusing him of anything here Im just presenting my side of the story and the things that run through my head about this issue.

Can every person on this site really say with the information that I have stated about my ownership of the club and how i never noticed anything wrong with it that they would believe 100% of complete strangers on here that they didnt damage it and want to get some money back??? 

Just to reiterate Im not making accusations of anyone telling lies or knowingly damaging a club and asking for money back. Bigslice has never said Ive accused him of that and I still arent.

From my point of view though Ive sold a good club with no problems to it and most people on here simply expect me to roll over and hand money back to a complete stranger on his word... Tough situation to be in.

I ask people on here to look at themselves and ask themself this: If you were to sell your current driver from out of your bag, inspect it, know it doesnt sound strange when hitting, think/know in your own mind its 100% good, then the buyer who is a complete stranger a few days later tells you its broken and wants their money back...??? would you roll over at the first hurdle and pay up?? 
Id be suprised how many people have the bollocks to turn around and say "actually no I wouldnt" because theres a lot of people gunning for me on here by asking for a name and shame and so they never are to business with that person again.

Its a shame for me really because the people I have met on here at forum meets and other events will know how i'm an honest and genuine type of guy and for people to prejudge me on here without my side of the story says a lot about the characters of themselves.


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## Val (Oct 10, 2012)

LTP, fair play to you for coming on and posting as you did. You seem a fair enough guy and I can confirm bigslice is as genuine as they come too.

Personally I'd agree with your comment about saying actually no I wouldnt offer a refund right away however given the length of dialogue you have have no doubt had with Davie im sure you'll be of the mind set he is genuine. Selling on this type of forum is all about trust and as you will know Davie sent payment without even really knowing you or if he would see the club, that is trust also.

Tough one, maybe you pair need to reach an agreement somewhere as it looks right now that Davie is carrying the can on this unjustly and I dont think he should (just an opinion and not a dig LTP).

Good luck to both and hope you get an amicable resolution.


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## chrisd (Oct 10, 2012)

Losttheplot said:



			Let me come in here and try and clear up a few things since I am the seller of the driver the OP bought....

Just want to say first that If i'd of seen this thread any earlier then I'd of come into it then but I don't get a lot of time to browse with having a 9 month old boy these days.

Before I sold the club in question I inspected the club, advertised it on here and put some pictures up. When I inspected the club I did so without taking the weights out as I would never have thought they'd be an issue inside the club head itself!
(how many people on here honestly remove the weights and get a torch out to look inside the clubhead?? you'd need a boroscope kit to fully inspect the inside of a clubhead to see around the corners etc so anyone who says they fully inspect the inside of the clubhead Id be slightly sceptical) 
I inspected the rest of the club and didnt see any problems with the clubhead. 

As i said to the OP in a PM, I didnt mess around with the weights when I used the club but I did check tighten them (using a TM wrench) before I sent it and also every few rounds, as I do with the other clubs I have with an adjustable setting. 
I never once noticed a crack on the outside of the clubhead where the weights are, I never had any extra movement from the weights when check tightening them and the club never made any funny sounds when striking a ball. The club to me performs as it should do.
To clarify one point from someone elses comments, the previous owner had it from new and used a TM wrench so maybe he put the extra weighted weight in so its not a factory set up in the weights issued to the club. He is a good friend of mine who Ive known for years and I know he wouldnt use anything other than the TM wrench to fit a weight. It was slightly awkward when I asked him about it a few days ago knowing how meticulous he is about his golf gear and how everything has to be good, clean etc (slightly OCD the level he goes to if you ask me lol)

So from my point of view I have used this club for about 12 months (on and off thats why I sold it...) without ever noticing a crack, hearing a bad sound when striking or seeing any extra movement from the weights. 
I have then inspected the club before selling, not seen any damage to the outside of the clubhead where the weights are or in any other area. 
And within days of selling it, Ive been told its damaged... 


Thats my side of the factual stuff out of the way, Im sure there will be odd bits come to me as people post stuff...

I'd just like to agree with the OP that he has never accused me of willingly selling a damaged club, nor have I accused him of directly damaging the club and trying to pull a fast one. The PM's sent between eachother have been polite and Ive tried to remain objective and not make any accusations or assumptions but it is hard when your trying to resolve something like this.

For me this is a hard one because I am a genuine and honest guy and have sold a club I have had for 12 months that I have never hd problems with, know its been looked after since my mate bought it new, looked after it when I had it, Ive inspected it and sold it on knowing there isnt a problem with it. 

I dont know the Buyer from the next person on here, for all I know he could have easily cross threaded the weight when putting a weight in, dropped it on the floor, damaged the club when removing a weight, he could have done a multitude of things to cause damage to the club. 
All I have to go on is the factual information I know before I sold it and a statement from the buyer saying how its now damaged and I am to trust him and refund him and take every word he says as Gospel and the truth. Im not being funny or accusing him of anything here Im just presenting my side of the story and the things that run through my head about this issue.

Can every person on this site really say with the information that I have stated about my ownership of the club and how i never noticed anything wrong with it that they would believe 100% of complete strangers on here that they didnt damage it and want to get some money back??? 

Just to reiterate Im not making accusations of anyone telling lies or knowingly damaging a club and asking for money back. Bigslice has never said Ive accused him of that and I still arent.

From my point of view though Ive sold a good club with no problems to it and most people on here simply expect me to roll over and hand money back to a complete stranger on his word... Tough situation to be in.

I ask people on here to look at themselves and ask themself this: If you were to sell your current driver from out of your bag, inspect it, know it doesnt sound strange when hitting, think/know in your own mind its 100% good, then the buyer who is a complete stranger a few days later tells you its broken and wants their money back...??? would you roll over at the first hurdle and pay up?? 
Id be suprised how many people have the bollocks to turn around and say "actually no I wouldnt" because theres a lot of people gunning for me on here by asking for a name and shame and so they never are to business with that person again.

Its a shame for me really because the people I have met on here at forum meets and other events will know how i'm an honest and genuine type of guy and for people to prejudge me on here without my side of the story says a lot about the characters of themselves.
		
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And that pretty well sums up the buying/selling of secondhand goods. If you buy a car privately and it goes kaput in week  unless it was clearly misadvertised then you have no come back. To be fair to Losttheplot, he clearly didn't know the fault with it and if it wasn't for selling it here, where we all voice opinions, then Bigslice would have no comback - I think that both have acted in the utmost good faith from their respective positions and that we should butt out and let them do what they think is best


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## elliottlale (Oct 10, 2012)

Having read all the dialogue on this thread, if I was LTP I don't think I would pay back the money and if I was the buyer I'd take it as a lesson. It's a ***** situation, but one that has no positive outcome for both parties! Or, just flip a virtual coin as that would be the only way to resolve such an awkward situation


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## bluewolf (Oct 10, 2012)

I probably wouldn't give a full refund, but I would look at ways of compromising. How about selling the club then splitting the difference. If it gets Â£50 then BS keeps it. If it gets Â£30 then LTP refunds a tenner.


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## Wolfman (Oct 10, 2012)

Fair play and credit to the seller to post his facts


I would just put this down to experience and find a way to resolve it 

Its only Â£50 but its a point of principle, and to be fair the club sounds like it is still a usable club so maybe it has been like this since new anyway ??

Glad the two of you have been adult enough to find ways to resolve  i think the seller makes a fair case, the buyer may have to put this down to experience perhaps ?


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## Val (Oct 10, 2012)

elliottlale said:



			Having read all the dialogue on this thread, if I was LTP I don't think I would pay back the money and if I was the buyer I'd take it as a lesson.
		
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If it happened anywhere other than this forum or a sale between 2 friends I would agree 100% on this but selling on this forum in a weird sort of way is similar to selling to people you know in a round about way (if that makes some sort of sense).


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## markyjee (Oct 10, 2012)

Bigslice I think if the clubhead or full club was returned to TM through your club pro or local dealer they would replace it.
I had a titleist 983 driver a few years ago which I had bought second hand, clubface cracked so I sent it to titleist through driving range pro, just over a week later got my shaft and grip back with the new 905 head attached.
Good luck


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## User20205 (Oct 10, 2012)

donate the Â£50 to HFH on Rick's page :thup:


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## bigslice (Oct 10, 2012)

Wolfman said:



			Fair play and credit to the seller to post his facts


I would just put this down to experience and find a way to resolve it 

Its only Â£50 but its a point of principle, and to be fair the club sounds like it is still a usable club so maybe it has been like this since new anyway ??

Glad the two of you have been adult enough to find ways to resolve  i think the seller makes a fair case, the buyer may have to put this down to experience perhaps ?
		
Click to expand...

yep its only fifty squid to someone not working and forced to sell his flat today for way less than what he paid for it (but i digress)


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## Liverbirdie (Oct 10, 2012)

I had similar on ebay the other year.

I sold a perfectly working powakaddy trolley to someone miles away. Anyway after a few e-mails going back and forth and asking him if he had connected it properly etc, I agreed for him to return it. Somehow something had gone wrong in the handle. I had it repaired re-listed it and sold it. I had given the original fella a full refund. 

I don't know how the damage happened, but as I made a claim on the courier which paid for the repair, not much harm was done.

It may be by-the-by, but I have met Bigslice (Davy) and he is a cracking fella, and would doubt he would try to pull a fast one. Hopefully it can be sorted, without any problems.

One possible suggestion, hoping the relationship has not soured - LTP - do you have any plans to play golf in Scotland in the near future. If so and davy is happy to, why dont you give him the refund, Davy gives you a free round on his course, which he can do via a credit scheme. This is at no cost do Davy, so may be a good middle way.

You get a free game of golf on a course that is more than Â£50, Davy gets his money back. You both but each other a pint in the bar afterwards, and laugh about this.

Sorry to hear about the flat, fella.


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## zlinuk (Oct 10, 2012)

Now here's a radical thought, why don't the forum members chuck in a quid a piece to purchase said club from bigslice, it could be given a name and awarded annually in some sort of forum related activity.


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## Farneyman (Oct 10, 2012)

zlinuk said:



			Now here's a radical thought, why don't the forum members chuck in a quid a piece to purchase said club from bigslice, it could be given a name and awarded annually in some sort of forum related activity.
		
Click to expand...

Am in...Lol he will get in pennies


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## Khamelion (Oct 11, 2012)

It's difficult situation with the sale being done through this forum and with some forum members knowing each other, the buyer and seller personally through forum events. It will be hard for some to remain objective, just as much as it will be hard for the buyer and seller not to be ostracized by forum members when an outcome is decided.

I think that now both sides of the issue have been written and read, the craving for a name and shame so called for by some members, the witch hunt can cease.

Both buyer and seller should now be left to come to a amicable solution, whatever that maybe.

THe above written I see three options:-

Seller gives full refund, replaces none off the shelf weight and returns to TM for repair or replacement
Buyer puts it done to experience and Caveat Emptor and as above replaces none off the shelf weight and returns to TM for repair or replacement
Buyer tries to sell club on Ebay or similar auction site with full description hoping to recover money he spent.


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## thecraw (Oct 11, 2012)

Losttheplot said:



			Let me come in here and try and clear up a few things since I am the seller of the driver the OP bought....

Just want to say first that If i'd of seen this thread any earlier then I'd of come into it then but I don't get a lot of time to browse with having a 9 month old boy these days.

Before I sold the club in question I inspected the club, advertised it on here and put some pictures up. When I inspected the club I did so without taking the weights out as I would never have thought they'd be an issue inside the club head itself!
(how many people on here honestly remove the weights and get a torch out to look inside the clubhead?? you'd need a boroscope kit to fully inspect the inside of a clubhead to see around the corners etc so anyone who says they fully inspect the inside of the clubhead Id be slightly sceptical) 
I inspected the rest of the club and didnt see any problems with the clubhead. 

As i said to the OP in a PM, I didnt mess around with the weights when I used the club but I did check tighten them (using a TM wrench) before I sent it and also every few rounds, as I do with the other clubs I have with an adjustable setting. 
I never once noticed a crack on the outside of the clubhead where the weights are, I never had any extra movement from the weights when check tightening them and the club never made any funny sounds when striking a ball. The club to me performs as it should do.
To clarify one point from someone elses comments, the previous owner had it from new and used a TM wrench so maybe he put the extra weighted weight in so its not a factory set up in the weights issued to the club. He is a good friend of mine who Ive known for years and I know he wouldnt use anything other than the TM wrench to fit a weight. It was slightly awkward when I asked him about it a few days ago knowing how meticulous he is about his golf gear and how everything has to be good, clean etc (slightly OCD the level he goes to if you ask me lol)

So from my point of view I have used this club for about 12 months (on and off thats why I sold it...) without ever noticing a crack, hearing a bad sound when striking or seeing any extra movement from the weights. 
I have then inspected the club before selling, not seen any damage to the outside of the clubhead where the weights are or in any other area. 
And within days of selling it, Ive been told its damaged... 


Thats my side of the factual stuff out of the way, Im sure there will be odd bits come to me as people post stuff...

I'd just like to agree with the OP that he has never accused me of willingly selling a damaged club, nor have I accused him of directly damaging the club and trying to pull a fast one. The PM's sent between eachother have been polite and Ive tried to remain objective and not make any accusations or assumptions but it is hard when your trying to resolve something like this.

For me this is a hard one because I am a genuine and honest guy and have sold a club I have had for 12 months that I have never hd problems with, know its been looked after since my mate bought it new, looked after it when I had it, Ive inspected it and sold it on knowing there isnt a problem with it. 

I dont know the Buyer from the next person on here, for all I know he could have easily cross threaded the weight when putting a weight in, dropped it on the floor, damaged the club when removing a weight, he could have done a multitude of things to cause damage to the club. 
All I have to go on is the factual information I know before I sold it and a statement from the buyer saying how its now damaged and I am to trust him and refund him and take every word he says as Gospel and the truth. Im not being funny or accusing him of anything here Im just presenting my side of the story and the things that run through my head about this issue.

Can every person on this site really say with the information that I have stated about my ownership of the club and how i never noticed anything wrong with it that they would believe 100% of complete strangers on here that they didnt damage it and want to get some money back??? 

Just to reiterate Im not making accusations of anyone telling lies or knowingly damaging a club and asking for money back. Bigslice has never said Ive accused him of that and I still arent.

From my point of view though Ive sold a good club with no problems to it and most people on here simply expect me to roll over and hand money back to a complete stranger on his word... Tough situation to be in.

I ask people on here to look at themselves and ask themself this: If you were to sell your current driver from out of your bag, inspect it, know it doesnt sound strange when hitting, think/know in your own mind its 100% good, then the buyer who is a complete stranger a few days later tells you its broken and wants their money back...??? would you roll over at the first hurdle and pay up?? 
Id be suprised how many people have the bollocks to turn around and say "actually no I wouldnt" because theres a lot of people gunning for me on here by asking for a name and shame and so they never are to business with that person again.

Its a shame for me really because the people I have met on here at forum meets and other events will know how i'm an honest and genuine type of guy and for people to prejudge me on here without my side of the story says a lot about the characters of themselves.
		
Click to expand...

Seems like a very defensive post to me. I do notice from your for sale post that there are no pictures of the weight ports or mention of the different swing weights which are non factory standard. I would suggest that is a significant difference to a standard R9.


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## bluewolf (Oct 11, 2012)

To be fair, it's hard not to be defensive when you are faced with some of the replies on this thread. Also, if the seller was unaware of the change in weights, then how could he describe it as anything other than standard. I would echo the sentiments of other posters and let the buyer and seller sort it out between themselves, without any assistance from people who appear to have picked sides.


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## BTatHome (Oct 11, 2012)

You might get lucky with TM, but to be honest the club is fairly down there line now, and probably close to 3 years old.


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## bigslice (Oct 11, 2012)

bluewolf said:



			To be fair, it's hard not to be defensive when you are faced with some of the replies on this thread. Also, if the seller was unaware of the change in weights, then how could he describe it as anything other than standard. I would echo the sentiments of other posters and let the buyer and seller sort it out between themselves, without any assistance from people who appear to have picked sides.
		
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mmm defensive again the seller has given all scenerios of what may have happened to the club, where the buyer hasnt


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## bluewolf (Oct 11, 2012)

bigslice said:



			mmm defensive again the seller has given all scenerios of what may have happened to the club, where the buyer hasnt
		
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Sorry, I don't see what you are getting at. You have had your say, he has had his. It needs to be sorted somehow. Preferably without a witch hunt against someone who for all we know, may have done nothing wrong. I'm sorry that you are currently out of pocket, but you need to work towards a solution with the seller.


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## Blademaster (Oct 11, 2012)

If the seller refunds the OP gets his money back and the seller gets his club back. He has lost a sale but not lost any money. 

Any other solution and the OP has a club he doesn't want and is Â£50 out of pocket. 

If the seller won't refund he is effectively suggesting the OP is lying about whether he caused the damage or not. If he does think he is lying then that's the only justifiable reason for not refunding the money and taking the club back. It's as simple as that.


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## Khamelion (Oct 11, 2012)

The best course of action for this scenario now, is for both parties, buyer and seller to go away and work out an amicable solution without the spotlight of this thread. 

Alot of people have had their say and probably without realising it, their impartial views have vanished, with sides being chosen unwittingly or not.

I think this thread has run its course, with all the common options offered and some off the wall suggestions as well, it's time for people to let this go or have the mods close the thread.


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## bladeplayer (Oct 11, 2012)

No intrest in taking sides,

 but as i said before have you tried hitting it? 

what have you got to lose ? if you use it & it cracks further sure its no different than having it & not using it ... if you use it and it works , result ..

I havent checked but im sure there are rules in the for sale section to cover general queries / disagreements  like this


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## chrisd (Oct 11, 2012)

Khamelion said:



			The best course of action for this scenario now, is for both parties, buyer and seller to go away and work out an amicable solution without the spotlight of this thread. 

Alot of people have had their say and probably without realising it, their impartial views have vanished, with sides being chosen unwittingly or not.

I think this thread has run its course, with all the common options offered and some off the wall suggestions as well, it's time for people to let this go or have the mods close the thread.
		
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I agree, we really dont want this getting out of hand!


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## GreiginFife (Oct 11, 2012)

bigslice said:



			was thinking pour glue in and tighten weight but not fully torqued
		
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Use stuff called JB Weld. It's a liquid metal. If it's the 10g weight, get a 6g one and use 4g of JB Weld. This stuff has a huge tensile capacity (I once used it to hold an alternator in place when the pivot bolt snapped!) and wouldn't crack or cause any further cracking. 
Costs about Â£7 for a two part mix.


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## brendy (Oct 11, 2012)

Thread closed, guys sort it out amongst yourselves.


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