# Im Either great or crap!! Why?



## 10cclo (May 4, 2017)

Hi all, I'm new to the forums and just wanted to get something off my chest that has been bugging me for quite a while now. My current exact chap is 6.6 and I've been playing for over 30 years. I decided last winter that this year was going to be the year that get down to category 1. So far its been a busy. I have quite a knowledge of the golf swing and am reasonably consistent around the course but what I'm finding very frustratingly is I'm either very good or very bad on any given hole. I can't seem to keep a consistent round together without tragic holes happening. One minute I'm on the Green in regulation and putting for Birdie and the next I'm looking for a ball in the trees or out of bounds.  I'm very disciplined when it comes to practice and have pretty good regimes of short game long game and putting and most of the time I come off the practice ground very happy and looking forward to the next game. That game usually comes and goes with me coming off the course disappointed and wondering what the hell has happened. I'm actually frightened to play in any club competitions as in my mind I might as well just get pt1 lift before I step on the first tee. This is now getting to the point where I'm losing any Faith and potentially an interest in the game in general.  I've had lessons and generally what happens is like when you take your car to the mechanic with a rattle and when you get there the rattle disappears. Same with me. So I've come to the conclusion that I have the game without a doubt but can't seem to keep it together on the course. I'm generally quite stable in the mind and don't get frustrated, I just move on to the next shot after a bad shot and don't dwell on it.  I'm really not quite sure what to do and wonder if anybody else has been or is in the same situation and has found a way out of it?


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## bobmac (May 4, 2017)

Do you have a specific 'bad shot' and if so, can you fix it mid round?


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## Beezerk (May 4, 2017)

10cclo rings a bell, you ain't in a band by any chance?


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## 10cclo (May 4, 2017)

Beezerk said:



			10cclo rings a bell, you ain't in a band by any chance?
		
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Sure am Beezerk, better drummer than I am a golfer lately


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## Three (May 4, 2017)

You've been playing 30 years, you're obviously at the limit of where your swing and ability will take you. 
Clearly your swing needs improving to be more effective and reliable.


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## Beezerk (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Sure am Beezerk, better drummer than I am a golfer lately 

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Ha ha, they played at our place a few months ago (CLS), sure I overheard the secretary say one of the band was a member here.
Just checked out the 10cclo website, they look very much like the majority of a band called Prognosis, now they were a $hit hot band but they never seem to gig now


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## 10cclo (May 5, 2017)

Something needs to change. The problem is what? Recent lessons I've had haven't thrown up any problems with the swing in general. The only issue was a slight over the top plane. This doesn't seem to be affecting the ball strike but it's still something I'm trying to rectify by using the zepp golf analyser. Also thinking about it a bit more the last few bad rounds I've had have been in reasonable windy conditions that definitely seems to be an issue as well.


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## 10cclo (May 5, 2017)

The band was formed from the majority of prognosis members. Who is this btw? Do we know each other?


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## patricks148 (May 5, 2017)

that's golf for you.

the weight of expectation is a problem for many golfers, myself included. one day i can shoot level par or better the next you would think i was a 25 handicap not 5.

I think the key is to try and forget the bad holes and try and stay positive, which is difficult once you have already blown your handicap on the first 3 holes

no one is perfect, that's why we have handicaps, once you get your handicap down to single figures and cat1 there is far less margin for error.

When it comes to bad shots as Bob mentioned its the bad shots if you have a particular type, getting rid of that might be a start.

good luck


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## bobmac (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Something needs to change. The problem is what? Recent lessons I've had haven't thrown up any problems with the swing in general. The only issue was a slight over the top plane. This doesn't seem to be affecting the ball strike but it's still something I'm trying to rectify by using the zepp golf analyser. Also thinking about it a bit more the last few bad rounds I've had have been in reasonable windy conditions that definitely seems to be an issue as well.
		
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So Tee shots are ok?


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## 10cclo (May 5, 2017)

bobmac said:



			So Tee shots are ok?
		
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Yeah generally drives are fairly dependable and are around the 240-250ish mark. Chipping has improved massively now that I can get onto the practice ground which thankfully our club has great facilities. As I say It's just the "blow-up" holes where I come off with nothing that's killing me.
I think its gonna be down to just riding through it and keep practising.
Im also using the gameGolf app, this is pretty good for seeing where my weak shots are and gives me pointers as to where i need to concentrate practice.


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## bobmac (May 5, 2017)

The reason I ask is in your OP you mention trees and OOB.
I thought maybe you were getting into trouble off the tee


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## LincolnShep (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Yeah generally drives are fairly dependable and are around the *240-250ish* mark.
		
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You need to work on this - everyone else on here has at least a 300 carry.


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## Beezerk (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			The band was formed from the majority of prognosis members. Who is this btw? Do we know each other?
		
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No mate but I've seen Prognosis quite a few times. I was saying to my regular pp a while ago, "that fella looks a dead ringer for the drummer from Prognosis" so it all kind of makes sense now &#128513;


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## 10cclo (May 5, 2017)

LincolnShep said:



			You need to work on this - everyone else on here has at least a 300 carry.
		
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Hmm don't think so I'm struggling with the game enough without worrying about macho distance of 300 yards, and how would you know that "everyone" has a carry distance of 300yards, you seen them all play? Thats amazing if you have


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## 10cclo (May 5, 2017)

So who are ya then so i can say hi at the club?


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## bobmac (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Hmm don't think so I'm struggling with the game enough without worrying about macho distance of 300 yards, and how would you know that "everyone" has a carry distance of 300yards, you seen them all play? Thats amazing if you have
		
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I think he was joking


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## Beezerk (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			So who are ya then so i can say hi at the club?
		
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Martyn Vaughan, Malcolm and Colin know me, the @rsehole with the beard they'll probably say lol.


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## 10cclo (May 5, 2017)

Actually tried the new callaway epic at American Golf last week and pitted it against my current Cobra Amp cell. Now dont know if the trackman results are "helped" but my average with mine was 250-255 and the epic was 265-270, plus the dispersion was a lot tighter with the epic. Â£430 though, ouch!


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## Three (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Something needs to change.* The problem is what?* Recent lessons I've had haven't thrown up any problems with the swing in general. *The only issue was a slight over the top plane. *This doesn't seem to be affecting the ball strike but it's still something I'm trying to rectify by using the zepp golf analyser. Also thinking about it a bit more the last few bad rounds I've had have been in reasonable windy conditions that definitely seems to be an issue as well.
		
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There is the problem, guaranteed. 

A "slight" over the top in a lesson can easily transform into much more over the plane on  the course.   Out to in, too steep angle of attack and it can get worse under a bit of stress or when your body isn't moving so freely. 

Also, as a result of this you will have excess spin on the ball which will show up as an issue in the wind. 

Fix the downswing plane.


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## 10cclo (May 5, 2017)

Yes I think you are right, Im getting good results when i get a better inside plane and a slight draw. Problem comes to the course and it all gets forgotten


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## Three (May 5, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Yes I think you are right, Im getting good results when i get a better inside plane and a slight draw. Problem comes to the course and it all gets forgotten 

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Have you been on a Trackman or similar?


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## turkish (May 5, 2017)

Coach shared a good video on shallowing downswing which was for driver but I'm sure could be used on Iron shots too with a few adjustments of where alignment stick should be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI1UVn43DIw

It really is an excellent drill- my problem is when I take them away but my swing definitely going in the right direction with it- showed it to my pro last night and he also thought it was excellent and said he was stealing it.

In terms of windy conditions- do you never try and play under the wind? maybe another shot to consider if you are someone who hits it high to take away some uncertainty?


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## LincolnShep (May 5, 2017)

bobmac said:



			I think he was joking
		
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I was...


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## HomerJSimpson (May 5, 2017)

A simple, stock answer from me would simply go and get a lesson with a decent PGA pro and let him see your swing and chant about your issues and aims. It might be something simple to fix mechanically and if you get a playing lesson he could look at your approach on the course and give you advice to stand you in good stead for the competitive rounds


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## 10cclo (May 7, 2017)

Defo going to concentrate on fixing this area.


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## 10cclo (May 8, 2017)

I had a couple of hours on the practice ground yesterday and concentrated very much on dropping the club at the top of the backswing to get more inside to out path. Very encouraging results but I think I need to really get this grooved in before I take it to the course. Thanks for all your suggestions and tips guys I'll update this thread over the coming weeks after a few more games out on the course.


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## Wabinez (May 8, 2017)

I think I could have written this thread.....it speaks volumes to me!!


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## snell (May 8, 2017)

I think you play at the same course as me. The practice ground is magical mate, makes me look like Rory....unfortunately I can't take it onto the course itself!
So just do what I do and blame the practice ground :lol:


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## the_coach (May 9, 2017)

having read through post #1 & your subsequent posts

couple of things maybes worthwhile considering

for sure reading through seems as if there maybes some swing motion issues goin down but as the index is in single digits the majority of the time you are able to make some repeatable kinda swing compensations so get reasonable strike on the ball to get ball to target - so although there maybes some tiding up to do on the technical swing motion front it's a couple of other areas I would look to as well

issues I often see with folks around the same kinda index mark that lead to a feeling of frustration in not getting enough good results out in play to move forwards score-wise even though practice is put in on a pretty regular basis has a root cause in the thinking around what & particularly how to practice and the thinking process during play

large part of these issues folks have tend to be around exactly how practice time is being structured & of real importance exactly what the nature of - and how - that practice is being done 

plus often times that goes hand in hand with when out in play issues with course management decisions & some tad unrealistic goals on what happens next after the shot that finds trouble

these issues I often times see over practice structure major around how practice is being monitored in real time at the practice facility 
& what self imposed conditions and restraints and goals are being set from the get-go of a practice session
so meaning how and where is the _pressure_ being applied during practice and how are the results of each session being _monitored_ in order to measure any real improvements that can better be transferred out in play/competition

if you of a mind to delve deeper into this let me know and if you are of the nature to research and study a tad could also point you in the direction of a couple of books that might open up some better approaches to improving some


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## 10cclo (May 9, 2017)

My practice is very centred around consistent ball striking at the moment. One thing to know that I recently changed my clubs from mizuno mp4 with project x 6.5 to mp5's with lbs c-taper life 110's. The difference is pretty incredible, a much more penetrating shot with a much tighter dispersion that anything I used to get. This leads me to believe that the technique was always there up to a point. Even last night I went up to the practice ground it was cold and it was windy but I was still hitting a reasonably good solid ball into the wind which I've always struggled with. The conclusions I'm drawing from this I need to just get out and play competitions and not worry too much about the results.


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## the_coach (May 9, 2017)

structuring the focus of any practice time a tad differently would pay bigger dividends in scoring out in play for sure given the level of competency in striking technique having been reached


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## ntommo (May 10, 2017)

My 2 penneth worth - If your off 6.6 your swing isn't the issue its your head mate. Have a read of Bob Rotella "Golf is not a game of Perfect". I was very sceptical but he talks a lot of sense and its helped me.


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## 10cclo (May 10, 2017)

Ok just returned from a midweek stableford comp. A reasonably solid game with 34 points including a blob on the 16th hole. The round included 3 birdies but too many 1 pointers on the front nine with silly missed putts.
Generally happy with the result and it's showing that the time on the practice ground is paying off. Ive also read the bob rotella books and am pretty confident with my mental game.
So I think just keep practising and plugging away at the comps


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## HomerJSimpson (May 10, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Ok just returned from a midweek stableford comp. A reasonably solid game with 34 points including a blob on the 16th hole. The round included 3 birdies but too many 1 pointers on the front nine with silly missed putts.
Generally happy with the result and it's showing that the time on the practice ground is paying off. Ive also read the bob rotella books and am pretty confident with my mental game.
So I think just keep practising and plugging away at the comps 

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Decent enough performance and I think your last sentence is telling. Keep putting the work in, keep playing comps and hopefully the performances will get better


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## 10cclo (May 14, 2017)

Well another round on the Sunday Medal, long story short, 2 over gross on the front nine and that included a double and single bogie. Happy so far! Striking nicely, putting accurate, no problems!
Going into the back nine saw the wind getting up and swirly and I nearly lose my drive OOB on the 10th, but found it under a tree with no shot to the green, made a DB 6, then par, par, bogie, bogie, DB, then the clincher, a shank into the trees off the tee on the par 3 16th, I walked off with a 7, then DB and finished with a, you guessed it, a Bogie.
So from a sparkling 2 over par to a pathetic eye watering 13 over on the back.

I was really reticent standing on the 10th tee thinking "dont blow it, just keep it together" and the exact opposite happened. I really don't know how the better players hold it together for 18 holes

Back to the drawing board I guess, but If I could take anything away from the round it would be that I have the ability but tend to always have blow up destroyer holes , not just the odd bogie but complete card wrecking nightmares. Aggggh


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## Three (May 14, 2017)

What are you doing to change the downswing plane?


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## 10cclo (May 14, 2017)

Three said:



			What are you doing to change the downswing plane?
		
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Ive been working with the zepp golf analyser to try to get my plane more in to out but this is really not the issue now, my ball striking is pretty stable.
I dont think there really is anything more I can add to this thread now with the initial problem I posted.


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## turkish (May 14, 2017)

You're obviously a decent player but from saying don't blow it etc it could be all mental.... if suggest trying golf psychology books to see if they help.

One I can think may help.... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Every-Shot-Must-Have-Purpose/dp/1592401570


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## the_coach (May 14, 2017)

10cclo said:



			Ive been working with the zepp golf analyser to try to get my plane more in to out but this is really not the issue now, my ball striking is pretty stable.
I dont think there really is anything more I can add to this thread now with the initial problem I posted.
		
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if you look at post #1 & post #36 they highlight a couple of things I was trying to hint at previously concerning practice and then play & course management and general thinking out in play

once you reach a certain proficiency in ball striking which at 6.6 that must have happened then the issue to score out n play is not an overly technical one - whatever 'shape' the swing is in you must a percentage of the time be able to make any individualistic compensations needed to get a reasonable strike

comment in the OP around coming off the practice ground happy with ball striking and feeling generally good - while that's not a bad thing in general need to look exactly at what and how you practice if as I guess largely around technique block practice of x amount of balls with say a wedge then same with 7i 5i hybrid 3metal driver - practice is around strike but in large groups of 'block' practice - which is useful to a point and useful occasionally - but the main focus is around the ball and swing
that's a deal alien to what happens out on course
so what I was trying to highlight in the other posts that the focus of practice needs to switch to what we call 'random' practice - when the pattern is every ball hit with a different club to a different target - like say wedge 3metal 7i driver sand wedge to 40' 4i 9i gap wedge or wedge to 90 yards and if the range mat is square one shot is parallel to mat next diagonally left/right but to different targets different directions each time - each ball is approached from behind to get the line - place the bucket of balls at least 4 steps away from mat don't use auto-tee 
so now the practice is beginning to mimic what goes down out in play

as the issue is generally a mental approach difficulty in play in dealing with pressure  - this random practice also needs to be quantified so ball to 40' needs to be within 6ft of target - driver to target needs to be within say a 40ft strip
have a specific target and goal for each shot - which starts to introduce some pressure to practice - so not just 10 7i's ball drag and hit in the general direction of vague target

out in play great front nine then it went south
but - " I was really reticent standing on the 10th tee thinking "dont blow it, just keep it together" and the exact opposite happened. I really don't know how the better players hold it together for 18 holes "

here is a major reason the focus has shifted from the one shot next to emotionally involve thinking about the next 9 holes and the result all while on the 10th tee - for sure a real surefire ways to have the wheels come off
couple things that are real destructive in a round are allowing emotional judgements to the games current situation and thinking about the end result 

focus is around the next shot goin to be played it's around the definitive target for that shot - is it a shot the current general game standard can reasonably achieve especially if a medal comp 
looked at as a big cliche but one shot at a time - objectively take in the result of that shot to take in anything that can help with the next shot decision for around 15 secs max then it's history taking no emotional baggage from it at all

you have decent handle on technique - major improvement will come from a shift in focus of how practice is done
and a bunch different mental approach out in play


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## SteveJay (May 15, 2017)

I can relate to this thread. 

My initial handicap was 14, after a couple of goodish cards submitted in roll ups over last winter (preferred lies and yellow tees). Thought that was at least a couple shots lower than it should be, but was chuffed with the outcome.

Now, off whites, I am struggling - not really badly, but a poor shot here and there costs me and I blob a few holes. Had a torrid front 9 yesterday in a roll up, scoring 6 pts. Recovered on the back 9 and scored 18. Scored 34 and 35 at another course a few weeks ago which I had never played before and so know I can play close to that handicap.

I am hoping its mental, but the whites seem to have a spell on me even though some holes are only a few yards longer. Similarly to the OP, any advice would be welcome as likewise I am nervous over entering competitions for fear of my handicap going up and up!


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## 10cclo (May 15, 2017)

I used to be hopeless dealing with nerves when it came to competitions and bad shots, they would f88k me up for the rest of the round and once I lost interest, that was it, I would putt with one hand or take 3 seconds to hit a drive, the interest has left the building!

Nowadays, I'm a very different proposition, I think I've pretty much got the mental side under a modicum of control, yes, of course, no matter how much amazing self-control we have, bad shots happen and always will, even to the best players in the world (Ernie Els, putting marathon!)

What I struggle to get my head around though is no matter how calm I feel standing over a shot and still go though my pre-shot routines, I can still have a blow up big style. Theres at least one of those ****as per round and in my "calm" mind Im just waiting for that to happen .....

I tried asking fellow players in a comp if we could play a matchplay but still mark a normal comp card in the process, that is a fantastic way of taking your mind off the man vs course, the problem is not too many people will agree to it feeling it will compromise their game, when in actual fact it could probably help a lot.

So still looking, still searching and even after yesterdays overall disaster I celebrated a fantastic 2 over par front 9 on a difficult course in windy conditions and relegated the back to the learning centre. Im enjoying the journey and will continue to do so


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## the_coach (May 15, 2017)

SteveJay said:



			I can relate to this thread. 

My initial handicap was 14, after a couple of goodish cards submitted in roll ups over last winter (preferred lies and yellow tees). Thought that was at least a couple shots lower than it should be, but was chuffed with the outcome.

Now, off whites, I am struggling - not really badly, but a poor shot here and there costs me and I blob a few holes. Had a torrid front 9 yesterday in a roll up, scoring 6 pts. Recovered on the back 9 and scored 18. Scored 34 and 35 at another course a few weeks ago which I had never played before and so know I can play close to that handicap.

I am hoping its mental, but the whites seem to have a spell on me even though some holes are only a few yards longer. Similarly to the OP, any advice would be welcome as likewise I am nervous over entering competitions for fear of my handicap going up and up!
		
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speaking as someone who has worked through the game to the point am at now have found that this stuff is pretty crucial to consider in looking to improve the game & score

only real ways to improve the game is by biting the bullet & entering the comps 
- but to get anywhere cannot approach them from the get-go by being concerned in anyways over what happens to the index 
- neither by thinking about the results outcome before or during play - do any of this & that's a surefire ways to have the wheels come off

it's real important to work through a process, a psr & identifying the particular target for a shot & the smaller more definitive you can identify the target (from a few steps behind the ball) the better the brain copes with organizing the information to produce a decent swing
work to be able to do that along with visualizing the flight to that target
all this 'process' engages the thinking process in an ordered ways so thoughts are kept to a positive task so the negative imagination is kept out

develop a decent process that is always repeated (doesn't have to take a bunch of time) then a couple of deeper breaths & pull the trigger to that 'image' in the brain of 'target'
the 'box' behind the ball that line to target/visualization is the thinking area soon as target locked in step over the line to begin set-up at ball the mind gets occupied by the process of setting up to the target - club face first then alignments stance & posture - because this has been repeated over n'over set-up is kinda automatic 

would also point you to the advice in post #40


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## SteveJay (May 16, 2017)

Cheers coach......am sure I will work through this. Have played other sports to a far higher standard so it shouldn't really affect me!!!


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## 10cclo (May 17, 2017)

omg another day, another nightmare midweek competition, heres the lowdown on each stableford hole before I canned it and walked off.
1. par, 2. par, 3. birdie, 4. par, 5. par, 6. par, 7. par, 8. No score 9. No score. 10. No Score 11. scrambled 1 point, 12. No Score , then Back to the car and home

In my mind was complete negativity just waiting for the blow up which inevitably came, any bad shot was a shrug of the shoulders and an " ah well not unexpected" thought

This is getting to the point where I really dont want to play competitions now for this fear and expectation and to say Im not enjoying golf at the minute is the understatement of the year.

Really dont know what to do about this at all


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## HomerJSimpson (May 17, 2017)

Sorry to hear it's still a struggle but is walking off the answer? I know we only do it for enjoyment and so if it's going badly it can be hard to keep going, but walk off in a comp once and will it make it easier to throw the towel in again and again each time you have a run of bad holes? I did walk of myself not so long ago in a social game (Sunday roll up) but would always stick it out in a comp and use the opportunity to find something positive, even it that's trying a different club off the tee, trying a different pre-shot routine or seeing if I could get the short game working to some degree

If it's getting to the point of not wanting to play in comps there is clearly a huge issue and it's either time for a break from competitive golf or to sit down with your pro or golfing mates and finding a way to change your mindset and get back to having fun. I hope you can get it sorted soon though


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## 10cclo (May 17, 2017)

Thanks Homer, my thoughts exactly. Ive cancelled the 2 comps this weekend and am gonna have a break for a couple of weeks. Walking off is normally not me but I felt that my heart wasnt in the game, wasnt enjoying it and had nothing more to bring at that moment.
The frustrating part about the last 2 comps is that I set off like a greyhound out of the traps, everything worked, great scoring, comfortable, then Boooom!! Bad hole, head goes down, start losing interest, cant get it back, downward spiral.....
Ive dug out Golf is not a game of perfect again and gonna have a good read through again.


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## 10cclo (Oct 9, 2017)

Hi All Just thought I would report back at the end of the season with an update. Since I started this thread back in May, ive been chipping away (geddit!) at getting rid of the bad shots, lots more practice especially on short game has paid dividends. Im now down to 5.6 and pretty much all aspects of the game especially on the mental side seem to have calmed down a lot. I no longer have the tragedy shots or if I do I can usually mitigate the damage. My bad holes are usually no worse than a bogie and usually with only a missed putt. So all good and as our resident pro has said, work it out through practice, wise words!


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