# Page Spraniac - Handed Ladies Master Invite



## ShankyBoy (Dec 9, 2015)

So what's the consensus on Page being handed a sponsors invite to the Ladies Masters in Dubai? She doesn't have her card, only just turn pro, but got the invite due to her "social media presence" of 1.5m followers (or whatever it is). But in reality she has been voted the sexiest sport woman ever or something, which is why she is there. Is that sending a bad message out or is any publicity for LET a good thing?

She shot 77, so +5 isn't a car crash, I thought she would be in the 80s...

http://www.sportsgrid.com/video/pai...thlete-on-earth-and-there-is-no-arguing-this/


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2015)

Let her crack on. 
What's not to like.


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## Imurg (Dec 9, 2015)

As has been said on Social Media, if it gets people talking about the LET it can only be a good thing.
And with established players like Mel Reid and Holly Clyburn only on +3 she hasn't done too bad for her first round as a Pro.
Good luck to her.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2015)

Who is she ?

Any boost the LET gets is a good thing ?


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 9, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Who is she ?

Any boost the LET gets is a good thing ?
		
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Google her :thup:
Can't believe I've had to say that to you


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## delc (Dec 9, 2015)

Well she is rather sexy, but so are many of the other LET lady golfers!


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## Beezerk (Dec 9, 2015)

She would have definitely got her invite had she looked like a box of frogs, definitely.


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## Jacko_G (Dec 9, 2015)

She is absolutely stunning.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2015)

Yep very pretty lady - good luck to her in her career.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 9, 2015)

Not a bad first round and you can imagine there were a lot of nerves. I can see why she'd get an invite and it would be nice if her golf did the talking and she got to the weekend.


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## delc (Dec 9, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep very pretty lady - good luck to her in her career.
		
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She might turn out to be golf's equivalent of Anna Kournikova in tennis. Very pretty but not  quite enough talent! :mmm:


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## ruff-driver (Dec 9, 2015)

delc said:



			She might turn out to be golf's equivalent of Anna Kournikova in tennis. Very pretty but not  quite enough talent! :mmm:
		
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Send her a challenge delc :thup:

might want to avoid putting though :rofl:


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## delc (Dec 9, 2015)

ruff-driver said:



			Send her a challenge delc :thup:

might want to avoid putting though :rofl:
		
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Who, me or Paige?  :mmm:


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## JustOne (Dec 9, 2015)

She looks ok........................ sorry what was the question?


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 9, 2015)

Don't know anything about this but, if true, that she got an invite because she looks good rather than her golfing ability it is a travesty. Everything that is wrong with the perception of women's sport in our society. If she's genuinely good enough to deserve an invite in preference to other players that's a different matter.


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## Crow (Dec 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't know anything about this but, if true, that she got an invite because she looks good rather than her golfing ability it is a travesty. Everything that is wrong with the perception of women's sport in our society. If she's genuinely good enough to deserve an invite in preference to other players that's a different matter.
		
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Well said, as usual.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't know anything about this but, if true, that she got an invite because she looks good rather than her golfing ability it is a travesty. Everything that is wrong with the perception of women's sport in our society. If she's genuinely good enough to deserve an invite in preference to other players that's a different matter.
		
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The invite may well have been of the back of her popularity on social media which in guessing is a large following based on her looks 

The end result could mean more exposure for the LET but not in the way everyone would want


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## Stuey01 (Dec 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't know anything about this but, if true, that she got an invite because she looks good rather than her golfing ability it is a travesty. Everything that is wrong with the perception of women's sport in our society. If she's genuinely good enough to deserve an invite in preference to other players that's a different matter.
		
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She's become Instagram famous because she is utterly gorgeous, as well as being a decent golfer.
She recently turned pro and I believe she is genuinely trying to make it, but she merits an invite only based on her fame, and she's famous for being a hot golfer rather than her golfing achievements.


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## chrisd (Dec 9, 2015)

She's ok I suppose!


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## Foxholer (Dec 9, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't know anything about this but, if true, that she got an invite because she looks good rather than her golfing ability it is a travesty. Everything that is wrong with the perception of women's sport in our society. If she's genuinely good enough to deserve an invite in preference to other players that's a different matter.
		
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I've certainly sympathy with this view, but Invites are specifically reserved for those outside the qualification criteria. If it boosts the public awareness of LET, then I'm for it - up to a point! Ivan Lendl was given a similar SI to a ET event a couple of times too - though scored poorly and decided he wasn't good enough!


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## Capella (Dec 10, 2015)

I wish there were better ways of getting public attention to ladies' golf. I doubt that any male player would ever get an invitation to a tour event because he looks good. 

That said, Paige is a pretty good golfer. She is probably not going to make the cut in Dubai, but many young golfers don't in their first big pro event. Time will tell if she is good enough to make it on tour.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 10, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			I've certainly sympathy with this view, but Invites are specifically reserved for those outside the qualification criteria. If it boosts the public awareness of LET, then I'm for it - up to a point! Ivan Lendl was given a similar SI to a ET event a couple of times too - though scored poorly and decided he wasn't good enough!
		
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At least Lendl would have been invited on the basis of sporting achievement, albeit in a different sport. All this does is perpetuate the belief that women's appearance is more important than their ability. If it does raise awareness of the LET it does so by showing it in a negative light.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

Genuinely torn on this one.  Can see FDs point of view as it could perpetuate the message that you will only get an invite if you are very attractive. 

But golf is more and more trying to harness the power of social media as a method of promoting itself.  The issues around the average age of female members in golf clubs is well know, with it being somewhere in the 60s, which is no way to sustain the future of the game.  So if she opens golf up to a younger generation then it can't be a bad thing.  Although you could argue with the way she is doing it.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			At least Lendl would have been invited on the basis of sporting achievement, albeit in a different sport. All this does is perpetuate the belief that women's appearance is more important than their ability. If it does raise awareness of the LET it does so by showing it in a negative light.
		
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Most certainly in your corner in regards this 

I just don't know what other ways they can do to attract awareness of the LET


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## Slab (Dec 10, 2015)

Wonder which sponsor gave her the invite

Regards whether its warranted based on having a large online following (based on her looks) I guess sport will just wait its turn along with movies, TV, music, media/magazines, fashion, politics, business etc etc in deciding when looks lose their priority status...

Or is sport just catching up with the rest!


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

delc said:



			She might turn out to be golf's equivalent of Anna Kournikova in tennis. Very pretty but not  quite enough talent! :mmm:
		
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Although she has a net worth of $50 million, which I imagine is a hell of a lot more than many 'more talented' players of her generation have. And she has been with Enrique Iglesias since 2000 or something like that, who I am reliably informed by my wife, is a bit of a catch. Which I imagine makes up for not having so much talent.


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## john0 (Dec 10, 2015)

Let's be honest, who actually watches Ladies golf for the actualy golf anyway


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## Capella (Dec 10, 2015)

john0 said:



			Let's be honest, who actually watches Ladies golf for the actualy golf anyway
		
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Well, I do. In the rare cases I get the chance to watch it, because media coverage leaves much to be desired on this. But I ususally enjoy watching it more than I enjoy watching the guys play. It tends to have more finesse.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Although she has a net worth of $50 million, which I imagine is a hell of a lot more than many 'more talented' players of her generation have. And she has been with Enrique Iglesias since 2000 or something like that, who I am reliably informed by my wife, is a bit of a catch. Which I imagine makes up for not having so much talent.
		
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She still managed to get into the top ten in the world plus a number of grand slam semi finals as well as winning comps plus winning grand slam doubles comps 

She was a very good tennis player


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## Jimbop90 (Dec 10, 2015)

She was invited due to her popularity, I think we all know that her social media popularity is based on her looks, but who, in an official capacity, not some randomers on a golf forum, is going to declare that it's her looks, and not her personality, or talent, that created her social media popularity.

Absolutely no-one, that's who.


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## Spear-Chucker (Dec 10, 2015)

There's pro's and cons to the whole thing. Talent should dictate invites _in theory_ and I'm sure there are many others who are significantly more talented (Paige seems like a decent college golfer at the moment but that's it) who would deserve it more. Would they bring the attention and spotlight? No chance. The sponsors who put the money in the pockets of the players will be very pleased with the exposure. Will others want her at their events? - you bet.

She deserves a chance (as wisely said by Laura D) but players should be there on merit not looks, IMHO. Lets hope she can put some scores together and take her opportunity well. As an arch pragmatist I'd try to take the good out this and not worry about it; see what plays out - easy for me to say though.

The world has changed though and in many walks of life (Film, Sport, Arts) superficiality talks over talent in many situations. Perhaps it always has, I'm not old enough to tell yet.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 10, 2015)

john0 said:



			Let's be honest, who actually watches Ladies golf for the actualy golf anyway
		
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I do. But your post illustrates the problem quite well.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm in an uncomfortable position about this. If she put more clothes on I'd be more inclined to back her based on sporting merit. But as it is I feel for the people on the sidelines struggling to qualify through performance when there's now clearly a side entrance for people that look good in skimpy clothes to lecherous sponsors and organisers.

I have a daughter who I hope will enjoy golf in the future and if she's ever good enough to compete I'd want to be sure she's doing that in an environment that rewards performance and not what she looks like.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Dec 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't know anything about this but, if true, that she got an invite because she looks good rather than her golfing ability it is a travesty. Everything that is wrong with the perception of women's sport in our society. If she's genuinely good enough to deserve an invite in preference to other players that's a different matter.
		
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Well said Kaz


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2015)

john0 said:



			Let's be honest, who actually watches Ladies golf for the actualy golf anyway
		
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Me.


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## Lincoln Quaker (Dec 10, 2015)

john0 said:



			Let's be honest, who actually watches Ladies golf for the actualy golf anyway
		
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Are you still in the 1960's?


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

But in reality how does anyone get an invite?  I imagine it is never purely down to just talent, how many people have got invites as they are signed to the right management company or sponsors who can influence it.  If it was just talent then I suppose you'd just pick the highest ranked players who are not already playing.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2015)

john0 said:



			Let's be honest, who actually watches Ladies golf for the actualy golf anyway
		
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I do and expect a number of people do


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

There also may be an argument that if golf put on some more exciting tournaments rather than the constant bore fest of terminally slow 72 hole stroke play then they would not have to resort to cheap gimmicks like this to get people tuning in or attending.  If you are after more TV viewers or punters attending then address the underlying fundamental problem of why people are not doing this.  Which I imagine, in most cases, is not that the players are not hot enough.


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## Slab (Dec 10, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			But in reality how does anyone get an invite?  I imagine it is never purely down to just talent, how many people have got invites as they are signed to the right management company or sponsors who can influence it.  If it was just talent then I suppose you'd just pick the highest ranked players who are not already playing.
		
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Was just thinking about this too

A wee bit different but many years on from a win the qualifying exemptions to The Open or US Masters are little more than invites and certainly the players ability doesn't come into it


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			There also may be an argument that if golf put on some more exciting tournaments rather than the constant bore fest of terminally slow 72 hole stroke play then they would not have to resort to cheap gimmicks like this to get people tuning in or attending.  If you are after more TV viewers or punters attending then address the underlying fundamental problem of why people are not doing this.  Which I imagine, in most cases, is not that the players are not hot enough.
		
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What other "formats" should they put on ?


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## Snelly (Dec 10, 2015)

I agree with Fairway Dodger.

If Paige wants to make a living from her looks then she could go into many avenues to earn from her appearance - that is up to her. However, if someone wants to make a decent living from their sporting prowess then the only thing that matters is performance.  How you look should be irrelevant. 

Being invited to play golf in a professional tournament just because you are pretty is a pathetic step by the sponsor.  I would admire her more if she had refused the invite and said that she wants to be in on merit.  With the right PR, this could have achieved a similar level of exposure.

Ironic that the venue for this travesty is Dubai - the most shallow, plastic, fake destination in the world.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What other "formats" should they put on ?
		
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There's plenty and it is not beyond the wit and wisdom of the many people in charge of running or sponsoring the game to use some of them. Here's some good ideas that I know is focusing on getting kids interested but I think it also applies to the general viewing public. http://www.thegolfpaper.co.uk/in-the-golf-paper/1339/its-time-for-golf-to-switch-on-to-the-kids/


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

Snelly said:



			I agree with Fairway Dodger.

If Paige wants to make a living from her looks then she could go into many avenues to earn from her appearance - that is up to her. However, if someone wants to make a decent living from their sporting prowess then the only thing that matters is performance.  How you look should be irrelevant. 

Being invited to play golf in a professional tournament just because you are pretty is a pathetic step by the sponsor.  I would admire her more if she had refused the invite and said that she wants to be in on merit.  With the right PR, this could have achieved a similar level of exposure.

Ironic that the venue for this travesty is Dubai - the most shallow, plastic, fake destination in the world.
		
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But how do you judge 'being there on merit'?

  It's 2015, looks, image and exposure on social media matters.  And golf can rally against it all it likes but it's happening. Of course the number of snap chat followers is not the main consideration on if you get an invite, but rather than be in denial, whilst not taking it to extremes, golf should try and embrace and use it to its advantage.  As if they don't other sports will and golf will become even more of a niche sport for old people.


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## garyinderry (Dec 10, 2015)

Doubt that girls ever heard the word no in her life. 


Some swing on her.  :swing:


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## garyinderry (Dec 10, 2015)

[video=youtube;rrBx6mAWYPU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU[/video]


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## Snelly (Dec 10, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			But how do you judge 'being there on merit'?

  It's 2015, looks, image and exposure on social media matters.  And golf can rally against it all it likes but it's happening. Of course the number of snap chat followers is not the main consideration on if you get an invite, but rather than be in denial, whilst not taking it to extremes, golf should try and embrace and use it to its advantage.  As if they don't other sports will and golf will become even more of a niche sport for old people.
		
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How do you judge being there on merit?  That is a bit of a daft question.  You are there on merit. i.e. you have qualified through the same process as everyone else.  You are there because you are good enough, not because you are especially pretty or have a lot of acolytes on social media.  

Looks, image and social media exposure only matter if you want to sell something on the back of your looks / profile - a perfume range for example, or earn a living just for being famous, a la Kardashian.  They are completely irrelevant if you are entering a competition where the winner is defined by the best performance.  The lines are not blurred here.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 10, 2015)

If looks matter - then IMO the lass is not quite as stunning as some are suggesting - IMO.  That said as she is not Donald Trump's daughter ("...she does have a very nice figure. Iâ€™ve said if Ivanka werenâ€™t my daughter, perhaps Iâ€™d be dating her" - yeugh) I'm sure he'd give her a leg up.


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## Dan2501 (Dec 10, 2015)

+5 thru 11 so far today. Shame, the pressure obviously getting to her. I wish her the best of luck though. She's done incredibly well to get to this point. She is bringing exposure to Ladies golf and that can only be a good thing. She's hard working, loves golf and wants to improve. What more can you ask for?


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## Wabinez (Dec 10, 2015)

Thinking that the majority of her followers are going to be based in the States.  If she increases exposure of LET in the states, maybe upcoming female golfers might come over towards the LET...like Uihlein, Koepka etc

Fair play to her.

Just wait for Crossfield/Shiels/Finch invite to the Masters now...


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## Capella (Dec 10, 2015)

I think "exposure" is summarizing it pretty well


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2015)

Teenagers know music, celebs etc through social media now. Mark Crossfield has turned from a club pro into a significant person in golf because of social media. There are gigs held now with people who are You Tubers, not musicians. The world is a wacky place because of social media. This woman has a huge number of followers and will bring a lot of interest to golf that would not have been there before. If she completely bombs then she will not get future invites. If she does okay then she will get invites ahead of better golfers because of what she brings with her.

Is it any different to David Beckham for the end chunk of his career? F1 drivers who bring sponsors money with them when there are better drivers out there? No, it's business.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

Snelly said:



*How do you judge being there on merit?  That is a bit of a daft question.  You are there on merit. i.e. you have qualified through the same process as everyone else*.  You are there because you are good enough, not because you are especially pretty or have a lot of acolytes on social media.  

Looks, image and social media exposure only matter if you want to sell something on the back of your looks / profile - a perfume range for example, or earn a living just for being famous, a la Kardashian.  They are completely irrelevant if you are entering a competition where the winner is defined by the best performance.  The lines are not blurred here.
		
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But how do you qualify for an invite 'on merit'?  Isn't the whole point of an invite that you are inviting people to play that have not qualified through the usual route whatever that is?  

And all professional sportspeople are selling something to the public, their image. Why on earth do you think they are all media trained to within an inch of their lives and have an entourage of managers, publicly agents etc etc if not to manage and protect their image? It isn't so they can sell Eau de Bubba. Again, that cat is well and truly out of the bag.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

Wabinez said:



			Thinking that the majority of her followers are going to be based in the States.  If she increases exposure of LET in the states, maybe upcoming female golfers might come over towards the LET...like Uihlein, Koepka etc

Fair play to her.

*Just wait for Crossfield/Shiels/Finch invite to the Masters now..*.
		
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What to play in?  Won't be long before one of them is given a lot of access to players at a big tournament I think.  And if Sheils or Finch qualify for The Open next year then I expect the Open will be quite happy about that.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 10, 2015)

I liked Henni Zuel (who is becoming a very good golf pundit on Sky) commenting on it today. She said it's embarrassing for women's golf.

And it is.


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## Capella (Dec 10, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			And if Sheils or Finch qualify for The Open next year then I expect the Open will be quite happy about that.
		
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Probably. But that's the point, isn't it? They are trying to qualify, following standard procedure. And if they make it, then that would be quite a story. I like watching both of them a lot more than I like watching Paige  but then again, I might be biased.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I liked Henni Zuel (who is becoming a very good golf pundit on Sky) commenting on it today. She said it's embarrassing for women's golf.

And it is.
		
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I find her very dull to listen to,but easy on the eye.


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## Jacko_G (Dec 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I liked Henni Zuel (who is becoming a very good golf pundit on Sky) commenting on it today. She said it's embarrassing for women's golf.

And it is.
		
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Why is it embarrassing? It exposes and highlights the womans Tour which rightly or wrongly is viewed as a second rate tour in Europe. Not sure how its viewed in the US??

Players like Spraniac and Booth use their looks to gain sponsorship and promote golf? Where is the issue? 

Mens golf needs Jordan and Rory, Adam Scott was/is a sex symbol to millions of woman. These things sell sport. Also I wouldn't say Henni is unattractive or a great player herself so potentially a pot 'n' kettle situation from her!


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 10, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			I find her very dull to listen to,but easy on the eye.
		
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Subtle. I'm not biting.


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## Slab (Dec 10, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			I liked Henni Zuel (who is becoming a very good golf pundit on Sky) commenting on it today. She said it's embarrassing for women's golf.

And it is.
		
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I'd no idea who that was so googled the name

Her twitter account states she's a pro golfer, model & commentator... not sure including the middle one really adds weight to her comments in this case


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			There's plenty and it is not beyond the wit and wisdom of the many people in charge of running or sponsoring the game to use some of them. Here's some good ideas that I know is focusing on getting kids interested but I think it also applies to the general viewing public. http://www.thegolfpaper.co.uk/in-the-golf-paper/1339/its-time-for-golf-to-switch-on-to-the-kids/

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I would have to say no to most of those formats bar more team matchplay but it won't happen as the calendar is jam packed as it is


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I would have to say no to most of those formats bar more team matchplay but it won't happen as the calendar is jam packed as it is
		
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I think the problem is that most people in golf say no to anything other than 72 hole strokeplay and fear change.  Hopefully Pelley, with the support of people like Chubby, is a bit more proactive and can see some opportunities. As I doubt Fincham will ever do anything that does not directly involve the leading pros in the US getting more prize money. 

And again it is not beyond the wit and wisdom of man to create some space by getting rid of a few of the dull tournaments that very few people care about, have little or no kudos but are mostly there for the players to top up their pension pot.  Just because a pro can win a million by coming first does not make it an interesting event.  Apart from for the winner, and the chief exec of the sponsor who gets to present the prize and a horrible jacket to the winner I suppose.


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## delc (Dec 10, 2015)

She finished the 2nd round at 12 over, so missed the cut by a mile. A bit embarrassing for all concerned!


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## richart (Dec 10, 2015)

Why don't we have some mixed pro competitions ? At my club a lot of the competitions are mixed. Women's golf  would get more exposure on tv, assuming some of the top men and women players take part.

Set the course up so that both men and women play their 'majors' yardages. This time of the year would be ideal, when calendar is quiet.


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## Imurg (Dec 10, 2015)

delc said:



			She finished the 2nd round at 12 over, so missed the cut by a mile. A bit embarrassing for all concerned!  

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But still beat the last Solheim Cup Captain...
It was her first Pro event.
Remember, a certain J. Rose Esq managed to miss his first 20odd cuts..
And, unless you were watching it, you don't know if, on the last few holes, she was pushing for birdies to make the cut. A simple number doesnt tell the whole story.


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## delc (Dec 10, 2015)

Imurg said:



			But still beat the last Solheim Cup Captain...
It was her first Pro event.
Remember, a certain J. Rose Esq managed to miss his first 20odd cuts..
And, unless you were watching it, you don't know if, on the last few holes, she was pushing for birdies to make the cut. A simple number doesnt tell the whole story.
		
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I seem to remember that Justin was only missing the cut by the odd shot or two!


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## Imurg (Dec 10, 2015)

delc said:



			I seem to remember that Justin was only missing the cut by the odd shot or two!
		
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Kind of irrelevant... A missed cut is a missed, by 1 or 10.
Rosie's first Euro Masters at Crans saw him miss by 6 or 7.....

Judge her when she's played a few more Pro events...


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 10, 2015)

Despite my comments, I do have a certain amount of sympathy for her. She's obviously a good golfer with aspirations to make it as a pro and very few would turn down the invite to play in a pro event. I'd never heard of her before but have read a wee bit now and she seems to have quite a realistic idea of where her game is in relation to the tour pros and is driven to get to their level.

Anyone making their pro debut is going to be incredibly nervous. To do it in a foreign country under the glare of publicity, much of it negative, can only make it harder.

I hope she makes it, but I also hope she doesn't get any more sponsors invites until she does enough on a golf course to justify it.


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## jp5 (Dec 10, 2015)

The ladies game needs more exposure, but this is totally the wrong way to go about it.

If you have reached the pinnacle of the game on talent, then fine - use your standing to push your brand.

But for your brand to act as a queue jump into a major sporting event sends out the wrong message to aspiring youngsters.


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## Jacko_G (Dec 10, 2015)

jp5 said:



			The ladies game needs more exposure, but this is totally the wrong way to go about it.

If you have reached the pinnacle of the game on talent, then fine - use your standing to push your brand.

But for your brand to act as a queue jump into a major sporting event sends out the wrong message to aspiring youngsters.
		
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The fact that this is now 7 pages long suggests that the sponsors got it 100% bang on.


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## Doon frae Troon (Dec 10, 2015)

Soooooooo, as my old boss would say, lets turn that one around.

Would we all be happy for a male golfer to receive the same treatment.


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## Capella (Dec 10, 2015)

Well, I'd surely love to see a few male golfers in really short skirts


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			I think the problem is that most people in golf say no to anything other than 72 hole strokeplay and fear change.  Hopefully Pelley, with the support of people like Chubby, is a bit more proactive and can see some opportunities. As I doubt Fincham will ever do anything that does not directly involve the leading pros in the US getting more prize money. 

And again it is not beyond the wit and wisdom of man to create some space by getting rid of a few of the dull tournaments that very few people care about, have little or no kudos but are mostly there for the players to top up their pension pot.  Just because a pro can win a million by coming first does not make it an interesting event.  Apart from for the winner, and the chief exec of the sponsor who gets to present the prize and a horrible jacket to the winner I suppose.
		
Click to expand...

It's nothing to do with "fearing change" - i don't see it needs to change and that the professional game doesn't need "gimmicky formats" 

Which are the "dull tournaments" that you speak off ? Who are you suggesting "doesn't care about" 

72 stroke play are the pure hardest format designed so that the best person over the 4 days wins.


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## Three (Dec 10, 2015)

LPGA Tour : Some cheats, a load of reasonably good Tour Pro's earning fortunes,  a handful of world class exceptional golfers, and plenty earning millions  selling sex appeal. 

She obviously falls into one of the required categories.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Soooooooo, as my old boss would say, lets turn that one around.

Would we all be happy for a male golfer to receive the same treatment.
		
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Personally not bothered but I can see how it irks. Before she gets completely hammered we should see if this lady improves. 

On this theme of reversing nobody picked up on this before but I am going to run with it. Large chunks of Beckhams career was about marketing. He sold shirts. His legs had gone, his benefit to the team was reducing all the time. His benefit to each club and its coffers was immense. He sold shirts by looking good, brand Beckham. Shirt off, tattoos out. Not my cup of tea but apparently it seemed to work.


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## MendieGK (Dec 10, 2015)

Bottom line is, you lot are discussing this because you have heard about her -  through Social Media. Therefore, the sponsor has got EXACTLY what they wanted. 

every week people are handed invites to events that probably cant cut it at that level (look at the mens events in asia where the natives shoot 90+). 

she has created her presence through social media despite not being an amazing talent (in relative terms). Its no different to an average PGA pro like Crossfield becoming famous. 

Fair play to her, and the sponsor using their invite effectively.


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## Stuey01 (Dec 10, 2015)

Capella said:



			Well, I'd surely love to see a few male golfers in really short skirts 

Click to expand...

Monty?
Kevin Stadler?


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 10, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Personally not bothered but I can see how it irks. Before she gets completely hammered we should see if this lady improves. 

On this theme of reversing nobody picked up on this before but I am going to run with it. Large chunks of Beckhams career was about marketing. He sold shirts. His legs had gone, his benefit to the team was reducing all the time. His benefit to each club and its coffers was immense. He sold shirts by looking good, brand Beckham. Shirt off, tattoos out. Not my cup of tea but apparently it seemed to work.
		
Click to expand...

IMO Beckham was all about the marketing machine - the looks , the marrying a pop star etc. Without the looks he would have been your average Prem footballer 

Agree with your first statement - let's see how she gets on.


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## patricks148 (Dec 10, 2015)

Stuey01 said:



			Monty?
Kevin Stadler?
		
Click to expand...

they will both be on page 3:rofl:


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Soooooooo, as my old boss would say, lets turn that one around.

Would we all be happy for a male golfer to receive the same treatment.
		
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True, you'd never see male golfers using their bodies to advance their careers, it's just those pesky women


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 10, 2015)

richart said:



			Why don't we have some mixed pro competitions ? At my club a lot of the competitions are mixed. Women's golf  would get more exposure on tv, assuming some of the top men and women players take part.

Set the course up so that both men and women play their 'majors' yardages. This time of the year would be ideal, when calendar is quiet.
		
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We can't, it's not the hardest form of the game and the calendar is too full.  Apparently.


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 10, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			IMO Beckham was all about the marketing machine - the looks , the marrying a pop star etc. Without the looks he would have been your average Prem footballer
		
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Seems like a Liverpool fan's judgement. Arguably the best English player of his generation.... that's a whole other thread and one that's probably been done more than once already! You don't need to reply, we'll take it as read you disagree with this point!  

Regardless, Tyrion, the difference is clear, Beckham may have used his footballing skill to leverage a "celebrity" career but prior to that he earned his place in the Man U and England teams on merit.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 10, 2015)

His early career yes, absolutely. The move to Real was about shirt sales, plenty info on the sale negotiations to confirm that, and all future moves after that.

Back to the original point. I can see why this would annoy but many female golfers have gone down this road, tennis players as well. Is it right? No. Is it bringing publicity, money and people into golf, Yes. At the end of the day golf is brutal and this or any other golfer can not hide behind a team mate, they don't have any. If the scores are rubbish then the invites will stop as the lady will become a joke figure and an embarrassment. At the moment she is bringing publicity to a tournament but will need more than that to keep going as a pro.


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## delc (Dec 10, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Why is it embarrassing? It exposes and highlights the womans Tour which rightly or wrongly is viewed as a second rate tour in Europe. Not sure how its viewed in the US??

Players like Spraniac and Booth use their looks to gain sponsorship and promote golf? Where is the issue? 

Mens golf needs Jordan and Rory, Adam Scott was/is a sex symbol to millions of woman. These things sell sport. Also I wouldn't say Henni is unattractive or a great player herself so potentially a pot 'n' kettle situation from her!
		
Click to expand...

To be fair to Carly Booth, she did have a fairly stellar amateur career, has won several pro tournaments and did very easily make the cut this week. I believe that she has made enough money this year to keep her card when her tournament winner exemption runs out. She did however seem to suffer a dip in form after posing for her notorious glamour shoot!


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## JustOne (Dec 10, 2015)

I don't care that they let some eye candy play.... there's already a lot of eye candy that don't play particularly well week in week out.... so what's one more bit of skirt?


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 10, 2015)

Does it really matter if Paige or Carly win tournaments?


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## garyinderry (Dec 10, 2015)

Hope they give oul CÃ©line an invite next. 

[video=youtube;wFBYYxK-bHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFBYYxK-bHk[/video]


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## backwoodsman (Dec 10, 2015)

MendieGK said:



			Bottom line is, you lot are discussing this because you have heard about her -  through Social Media. Therefore, the sponsor has got EXACTLY what they wanted.
		
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Not really. I've read the full thread, and have no idea who was the sponsor. So their tactic hasn't  fully worked. And i still have no idea who is Ms Spraniac. Nor what she looks like. And nor do i care.


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## delc (Dec 11, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			Hope they give oul CÃ©line an invite next. 

[video=youtube;wFBYYxK-bHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFBYYxK-bHk[/video]
		
Click to expand...

Why not?  She seems to have a pretty good swing!  :thup:


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 11, 2015)

backwoodsman said:



			Not really. I've read the full thread, and have no idea who was the sponsor. So their tactic hasn't  fully worked. And i still have no idea who is Ms Spraniac. Nor what she looks like. And nor do i care.
		
Click to expand...

http://bfy.tw/3ETJ


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## backwoodsman (Dec 11, 2015)

I didn't catch the name of the golfer who said it, but i think i just heard the telling comment on the Radio 4 sports bulletin. "_There are girls on tour who are fighting for their cards. One of them has  been denied a chance at saving it."_ Nuff sed

As an aside, nice to see Laura D doing well.


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## backwoodsman (Dec 11, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



http://bfy.tw/3ETJ

Click to expand...

Ta - but I'm not curious enough to bite.


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## ShankyBoy (Dec 11, 2015)

Looks like golf is getting sexy....who is the new PR guru just been hired then??

For me, it was a bad decision and sends the wrong message out, it's got more people talking about golf for sure, but not in a good light.

I hope she gets her card and is there in merit not just how good she looks. I also hope she doesn't get hounded out based on the backlash that comes from it, she was handed an invite and took it, would have been hard to say no I'm sure to getting that experience.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2015)

Shanky - That picture is worthy of a banning order. Please edit quickly. Pleeeaaaasssse.


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## ShankyBoy (Dec 11, 2015)

It's from a Golf website, thought that would be ok  

Unable to edit now, but if the mods don't approve happy for them to remove.

http://www.golf.com/extra-spin/kourtney-kardashian-and-kourtney-kardashian-play-mini-golf


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## jamielaing (Dec 11, 2015)

I've read this a bit late and I am sure that my points have been covered but my tuppence worth;

She is a very good looking girl, irrelevant to her golfing ability however sponsors invites are not to bring in people who draw crowds and who create interest. All you have to do here is look at Tiger when he started to slip and probably now. If he was willing/ able to play he would get an invite. This would be purely based on the attraction of a crowd, nothing to do with his ability to play golf currently.

Sports stars across the globe use their looks to increase their worth. Anna Kournikova, David Beckham, the list can go on and on. Remember that sports illustrated do massive spreads of athletes in sexy positions and these athletes get paid handsomely.

She obviously has talent and is trying to get a career in golf, why wouldn't you take the invite?

All she has done previously is try to increase her profile via social media which is how you do that these days. The fact that she is a celebrity in some way increases the profile of the comp.

I understand that she is about looks and this is probably why she has fame however in my eyes she is going to try to use that to further a golf career. Nothing wrong with that to me. But let's remember, sponsors know what they are doing. This is creating controversy and nothing gets people watching and talking quite like a controversy!


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 11, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			It's from a Golf website, thought that would be ok  

Unable to edit now, but if the mods don't approve happy for them to remove.

http://www.golf.com/extra-spin/kourtney-kardashian-and-kourtney-kardashian-play-mini-golf

Click to expand...



Shanky, not said in a serious way, meant to be funny. Sorry if it came across harsh. I have a hefty dislike of all things Kardashian. Awful people.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 11, 2015)

backwoodsman said:



			Ta - but I'm not curious enough to bite.
		
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So you've read the whole thread of 90 odd posts about someone you do not care about in the slightest and have not got enough curiosity to google her???


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## BoadieBroadus (Dec 11, 2015)

i'm not sure why all the fuss...

sponsors on the mens tours are always giving invites to players with long blonde hair and large breasts...

or at least i  think thats why John Daly keeps getting invites to turn up


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## delc (Dec 11, 2015)

BoadieBroadus said:



			i'm not sure why all the fuss...

sponsors on the mens tours are always giving invites to players with long blonde hair and large breasts...

or at least i  think thats why John Daly keeps getting invites to turn up
		
Click to expand...

And Monty!   :rofl:


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## backwoodsman (Dec 11, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			So you've read the whole thread of 90 odd posts about someone you do not care about in the slightest and have not got enough curiosity to google her???
		
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Yep. 

I can care about a principle with having a care about the individual person. She's obviously attractive and a tweeter - it's been said plenty in the thread, so I don't need to check. (And given that they've been mentioned, I don't know what a Kardashian is either?)

And I can say it is only the principle of should she have been offered the spot that is the concern. Have nothing agin her herself for accepting the offer - heck, I would have too, if they offered it to me. And I'd have worn the skirt if needed.


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## freddielong (Dec 11, 2015)

She is amazing reminds me of the girl on the killers just another girl video.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 11, 2015)

Not a great first event, although still ahead of Carin Koch. I'm split on the subject of her invite and think it's clear she has ambition, can play a bit and will attract a lot of publicity which has to be good for the LET. However if her spot comes at the expense of pro battling for their tour card then that has to be wrong. She certainly seems level headed about her need to improve and I think it's good to see her honesty. I think she'll certainly get more invites. Hope she can fair better next time


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## delc (Dec 11, 2015)

She's one of this lot, so has talents most of us don't have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxR7UW3aeQ0


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## delc (Dec 12, 2015)

backwoodsman said:



			Yep. 

I can care about a principle with having a care about the individual person. She's obviously attractive and a tweeter - it's been said plenty in the thread, so I don't need to check. (And given that they've been mentioned, *I don't know what a Kardashian is either*?)

And I can say it is only the principle of should she have been offered the spot that is the concern. Have nothing agin her herself for accepting the offer - heck, I would have too, if they offered it to me. And I'd have worn the skirt if needed.
		
Click to expand...

What planet do you live on?


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 12, 2015)

http://www.golfpunkhq.com/latest/article/in-defence-of-paige-spiranac


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 12, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



http://www.golfpunkhq.com/latest/article/in-defence-of-paige-spiranac

Click to expand...

A balanced article and the author makes some good points


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## Smiffy (Dec 13, 2015)

backwoodsman said:



			I didn't catch the name of the golfer who said it, but i think i just heard the telling comment on the Radio 4 sports bulletin. "_There are girls on tour who are fighting for their cards. One of them has  been denied a chance at saving it."_

Click to expand...

That's exactly how I feel about the Masters.
Old duffers who won the tournament 30 odd years ago still being allowed to compete in a "Major" when there are many golfers out there who stand a better chance of winning it but are never given the opportunity.
The most eagerly anticipated tournament of the season, with a field mostly made up of geriatrics who would struggle to score 32 points in the monthly medal.
And that's a "major"


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## Foxholer (Dec 13, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			A balanced article and the author makes some good points
		
Click to expand...

A big +1 for this!

Had she finished dead last of the Pros - by more than a stroke or 2 - then I'd probably have a different opinion. But she didn't, so where's the criticism of those 'real' pros!

One of those behind her was (the great) Carin Koch! Where's the questioning of her performance - having 'qualified' along with 2 others through the Money List!


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## delc (Dec 13, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			A big +1 for this!

Had she finished dead last of the Pros - by more than a stroke or 2 - then I'd probably have a different opinion. But she didn't, so where's the criticism of those 'real' pros!

One of those behind her was (the great) Carin Koch! Where's the questioning of her performance - having 'qualified' along with 2 others through the Money List!
		
Click to expand...

Paige Spiranic was a reasonably successful American college golfer with San Diego State University and has recently turned pro. She maybe hasn't quite made the step up to the top level, but give her time. She admitted to be very nervous playing in her first big tournament and her first time out of the US, which probably didn't help.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 13, 2015)

You also have to remember they are in the entertainment business. They need to put on a show so sponsors pay,  people attend and punters watch it on TV. 

Yes the sponsors could have invited some fairly anonymous player on the fringes of proper qualification. But if they were good enough to qualify on merit they would be there. The ladies game is mostly a great product and by getting  characters who can generate publicity playing in addition to the ones that have properly qualified, to me isn't a bad thing for the future of the game.

 Possibly not fair on whoever sits just outside the qualification criteria, but I can promise they would not have generated a 100th of the publicity or interest that the sponsors did in the tournament by inviting Paige. That's showbiz.


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## Smiffy (Dec 13, 2015)

And let's be honest.
She does have a fair old pair of threepenny's


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## delc (Dec 13, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			And let's be honest.
She does have a fair old pair of threepenny's
		
Click to expand...

Thank you for bringing the tone of the discussion down Smiffy!


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## Smiffy (Dec 13, 2015)

delc said:



			Thank you for bringing the tone of the discussion down Smiffy!  

Click to expand...

Not a problem Del.
Honestly.


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 13, 2015)

delc said:



			Thank you for bringing the tone of the discussion down Smiffy!  

Click to expand...

He can go a whole lot lower yet!


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## SugarPenguin (Dec 13, 2015)

Not bad


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## delc (Dec 14, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Not a problem Del.
Honestly.


Click to expand...

I would certainly like to see a lot more of her - on the Ladies European Tour that is.  Maybe she will follow the example of Cheyenne Woods and play on the LET tour until she gets an LPGA card. Unfortunately Cheyenne qualified for an LPGA card at the recent Q School, so we shall be seeing less of her in future.


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## richart (Dec 14, 2015)

There is a good Mark Crossfield youtube video about this lady. Just off to watch it for the fourth time.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 15, 2015)

http://youtu.be/UdSK4LcEAA4
Lovely girl.


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## Smiffy (Dec 16, 2015)

I can't get over her thighs!!! They are really big
oo:


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## Capella (Dec 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I can't get over her thighs!!! They are really big
oo:
		
Click to expand...

Excuse me? I think you meant to say "muscular" or something like that. If you think they are big, you sure haven't seen my thighs yet ...


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## Smiffy (Dec 16, 2015)

Capella said:



			Excuse me? I think you meant to say "muscular" or something like that. If you think they are big, you sure haven't seen my thighs yet ...
		
Click to expand...


They are really muscular


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## Capella (Dec 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			They are really muscular
		
Click to expand...

That's better 

There is a nice article about her in GolfDigest: https://t.co/gmRl78drol

I'm starting to warm to her a bit more. Still wish there were better ways to promote women's golf than going via the "it looks so sexy" lines (or maybe I'm just jealous, because I feel anything but when I hit a golfball myself)


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## Smiffy (Dec 16, 2015)

Capella said:



			Still wish there were better ways to promote women's golf than going via the "it looks so sexy" lines
		
Click to expand...

I fully agree.


PS. Shame she's not a brunette


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## delc (Dec 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			They are really muscular
		
Click to expand...

I believe that like Carly Booth, she spends hours a day working out in the gym. Don't know if you have seen any of Carly's work out videos, but if I got into some of the positions she does, I would have to be rescued by the Fire Service!  :mmm:


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## Smiffy (Dec 16, 2015)

delc said:



			If I got into some of the positions she does, I would have to be rescued by the Fire Service!  :mmm:
		
Click to expand...

My missus walking into the room would work too.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 16, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



http://youtu.be/UdSK4LcEAA4
Lovely girl.
		
Click to expand...

Taking out the slightly creepy/teenage boy behaviour of Crossfield and Coach Locky I thought she came across very well.  She seems to have a personality and a sense of humour.  God knows if I would feel the same if she looked like a bag of spanners, I hope I would.  And I know you could argue that she would not have been in the position she is in if she did look like a bag of spanners, but she is where she is as the saying goes.


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## adam6177 (Dec 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I can't get over her thighs!!! They are really big
oo:
		
Click to expand...

Not big enough you mean! skinny minnies aren't the way forward IMO.


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## JustOne (Dec 16, 2015)

Capella said:



			Still wish there were better ways to promote women's golf than going via the "it looks so sexy" lines (or maybe I'm just jealous, because I feel anything but when I hit a golfball myself)
		
Click to expand...

I think it has to be sexy because it's for WOMEN. If they butch it up and make it all masculine then perhaps women/ladies/girls won't be attracted to the sport on the basis they aren't 'man enough'.



Watched the Crossfield video... it was as if they'd never seen a pretty girl before


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## Capella (Dec 16, 2015)

JustOne said:



			I think it has to be sexy because it's for WOMEN. If they butch it up and make it all masculine then perhaps women/ladies/girls won't be attracted to the sport on the basis they aren't 'man enough'.
		
Click to expand...

Nope. Totally does not work on the majority of the female population, because most of us know that we won't look like anything like Paige when we hit a golf ball and we are better off staying away from the short skirts. I think it is more to attract a male audience.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2015)

Is it just me than that thinks she ok but nothing special ?


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## delc (Dec 16, 2015)

JustOne said:



			I think it has to be sexy because it's for WOMEN. If they butch it up and make it all masculine then perhaps women/ladies/girls won't be attracted to the sport on the basis they aren't 'man enough'.



Watched the Crossfield video... it was as if they'd never seen a pretty girl before 

Click to expand...

If they mainly hang around at golf courses and driving ranges, maybe they hadn't?  :mmm:  (with apologies to the lady members at our club).


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## Smiffy (Dec 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it just me than that thinks she ok but nothing special ?
		
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Every chance....... if it's likely to cause an argument


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 16, 2015)

If you want to see her impact then go to https://dubailadiesmasters.com/ and look at how many of the pictures summarising the event she features in on the top of the page.  Not bad for a sponsors invite who didn't make the cut and should never had been there....


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## delc (Dec 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Blimey are you from the dark ages ?
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, many (although certainly not all) lady pro golfers (and lady athletes in general) do tend to come from the more butch end of the female spectrum. Paige is very much an exception to this and seems very nice.  FWIW, I find Mark Crossfield rather irritating for the same reasons as I find radio and TV presenter Chris Evans rather irritating!


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 16, 2015)

delc said:



			To be fair, many (although certainly not all) lady pro golfers (and lady athletes in general) do tend to come from the more butch end of the female spectrum. Paige is very much an exception to this and seems very nice.  FWIW, I find Mark Crossfield rather irritating for the same reasons as I find radio and TV presenter Chris Evans rather irritating!  

Click to expand...

Can't beat a bit of stereotyping ?!


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 16, 2015)

delc said:



			To be fair, many (although certainly not all) lady pro golfers (and lady athletes in general) do tend to come from the more butch end of the female spectrum. Paige is very much an exception to this and seems very nice.  FWIW, I find Mark Crossfield rather irritating for the same reasons as I find radio and TV presenter Chris Evans rather irritating!  

Click to expand...

I'm guessing you don't watch much women's sport? 
Some very attractive female golfers. 
Gerina Piller
Charley Hull 
Michelle wie
Lydia Ko
Paula Creamer
Lexi Thompson 
To name a few. 

You must have very high standards delc.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 16, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is it just me than that thinks she ok but nothing special ?
		
Click to expand...

Just you Phil you stick to your Russian shotputters.


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## pokerjoke (Dec 16, 2015)

delc said:



			To be fair, many (although certainly not all) lady pro golfers (and lady athletes in general) do tend to come from the more butch end of the female spectrum. Paige is very much an exception to this and seems very nice.  FWIW, I find Mark Crossfield rather irritating for the same reasons as I find radio and TV presenter Chris Evans rather irritating!  

Click to expand...

More rubbish from the old timer.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 16, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Every chance....... if it's likely to cause an argument
		
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Don't be a spoil sport,Phil was trying to get a debate going to fill his evening.


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## Capella (Dec 16, 2015)

The problem is that discussions like this happen at all. And that they happen only about women's sport. It should not be about what female golfers look like. It should be about how well they play the game. Shanshan Feng absolutely demolished the field in Dubai last weekend. She won by a twelve shot lead. And all everyone talks about is Paige (and I am not blaming her for this, it is not her fault at all). It is a bit maddening.


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## PhilTheFragger (Dec 16, 2015)

is this thread still going?


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## JustOne (Dec 16, 2015)

Capella said:



			The problem is that discussions like this happen at all. And that they happen only about women's sport. It should not be about what female golfers look like.
		
Click to expand...

I completely disagree as already pointed out with remarks about John Daly and Monty (both of whom carry a set of moobs). We like to slate fat, ugly men as much as we do the likes of the 'Laura Davies type'.

The fact that the forum is mainly men means that we are bound to comment on the looks of pretty girls as would a ladies netball forum talk about handsome chaps.

All us men have already duly noted on the forum (several times) that Stenson is apparently a bit of a dish


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 16, 2015)

Capella said:



			The problem is that discussions like this happen at all. And that they happen only about women's sport. It should not be about what female golfers look like. It should be about how well they play the game. Shanshan Feng absolutely demolished the field in Dubai last weekend. She won by a twelve shot lead. And all everyone talks about is Paige (and I am not blaming her for this, it is not her fault at all). It is a bit maddening.
		
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. It's very rare to get a thread on here about women's golf that doesn't descend into sexism and homophobia, as this one has. Hard to believe the forum actually has rules against such posts.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 16, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Agree 100%. It's very rare to get a thread on here about women's golf that doesn't descend into sexism and homophobia, as this one has. Hard to believe the forum actually has rules against such posts.
		
Click to expand...

Didn't a female forumer recently say she'd like Henrik Stenson in nothing but a bow? 
No problem with that tho I suppose.


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## delc (Dec 16, 2015)

Capella said:



			The problem is that discussions like this happen at all. And that they happen only about women's sport. It should not be about what female golfers look like. It should be about how well they play the game. Shanshan Feng absolutely demolished the field in Dubai last weekend. She won by a twelve shot lead. And all everyone talks about is Paige (and I am not blaming her for this, it is not her fault at all). It is a bit maddening.
		
Click to expand...

I did consider putting a post on here about Shanshan Feng's phenomenal performance in beating a good quality field by 12 strokes, but somehow never got round to doing so!


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## FairwayDodger (Dec 16, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			Didn't a female forumer recently say she'd like Henrik Stenson in nothing but a bow? 
No problem with that tho I suppose.
		
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Well done on missing the point again.


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## freddielong (Dec 17, 2015)

Golf is becoming a sport for athletes (there are obvious exceptions) and athletes by definition have better bodies than the average person, the majority of clothing in the men's game has also become a lot slimmer fitting. I think this is probably true in most sports, sex sells but it is only feather in the bow of sports marketing.

To be fair sex is possibly the only way to sell womens golf to men, as in every other aspect the men's game is far far superior.


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## Capella (Dec 17, 2015)

freddielong said:



			To be fair sex is possibly the only way to sell womens golf to men, as in every other aspect the men's game is far far superior.
		
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Do you honestly think so? Seriously? As I see it, the only thing the guys are superior in is to hit the ball further on average. If you factor that out, the women's game is every bit as good. Golf is not a long drive competition.


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## Matty (Dec 17, 2015)

I really don't get the problem with any of this.

I work in a female dominated working environment and a few of my female colleagues go all gooey over some of the male golfers - Adam Scott certainly sends their pulses racing.

Rory and Tiger get invites to certain events so the organisers and sponsors can get more publicity.

Sadly I think this is being blown out of proportion because Paige is very attractive - and even those who say she isn't to their tastes  must still be aware of the allure for others - in exactly the same way we may grudgingly admire Adam Scott's good looks.

Comments made by Paige around the time of the event demonstrate at least that she was honoured to have been invited, was keen to tee it up and although she might not have made the cut her score was by no means a disgrace for her first professional world stage tournament.


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## adam6177 (Dec 17, 2015)

IMO its our own inbuilt prejudices that are even making this an issue.


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## Three (Dec 17, 2015)

Capella said:



			Do you honestly think so? Seriously? As I see it, the only thing the guys are superior in is to hit the ball further on average. If you factor that out, the women's game is every bit as good. Golf is not a long drive competition.
		
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Sorry but that's not true, you only need to hang around a few top level men's and women's events to see the big gulf in skill and talent. 
The men hit it better, more consistently better, they are much more creative around the greens and their short game is better.


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## freddielong (Dec 17, 2015)

Capella said:



			Do you honestly think so? Seriously? As I see it, the only thing the guys are superior in is to hit the ball further on average. If you factor that out, the women's game is every bit as good. Golf is not a long drive competition.
		
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Imho yes and for me it's not close.

For me the women's game feels like watching the us pga 35 years ago, punt it down the fairway, punt it onto the green and the best putter wins. Sorry it's boring, I do admit watching occasionally when Lexi Thompson or Mel Reid are in the hunt but that's not so much for golfing reasons.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 17, 2015)

This could deteriorate but here goes. Is there anyone in the womens game who can hit shots like Rory or Bubba? Big draws, fades. Dramatic shots to get you out of trouble. Anyone with a short game like Phil? I'm sorry but it is equivalent to mens and womens tennis. They are a mile apart in terms of quality. 

This does not mean that the womens game can not be enjoyed or appreciated but in terms of spectacle it just is not there.


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## Jimaroid (Dec 17, 2015)

Matty said:



			Rory and Tiger get invites to certain events so the organisers and sponsors can get more publicity.
		
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Except that's not the same. Rory and Tiger earned those invites by first becoming the best at their sport.


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## JustOne (Dec 17, 2015)

Whatever next.... women are as good at boxing as men? Let's see that one as an 'equal opportunities' option :thup:

Some people are so blinded by their feminist attitude that they can't see the wood for the trees.


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## Hacker Khan (Dec 17, 2015)

Capella said:



			The problem is that discussions like this happen at all. And that they happen only about women's sport. It should not be about what female golfers look like. *It should be about how well they play the game*. Shanshan Feng absolutely demolished the field in Dubai last weekend. She won by a twelve shot lead. And all everyone talks about is Paige (and I am not blaming her for this, it is not her fault at all). It is a bit maddening.
		
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Whilst I agree with a lot of your sentiment, it has never been totally about how people play the game.  People with personality, who give good interview and who have a recognisable image (which today is as much gained by social media as the old traditional methods) always tend to gain more publicity than those that are just good at the game. 

Not saying it is right or wrong but who will inspire socially media obsessed kids more to get into the game? An admittedly very skillful but character wise very dull South Korean/Chinese golfing robot, or someone with a lot of social media followers and a personality.   Ideally I'd argue you need both, but golf needs to be aware of what type of person kids will be interested in and will engage them.  Which is what I think they are doing in this case. And just saying it is skill and nothing else is unfortunately not enough in todays world.

And perhaps there may be a theory that if you do reach the top of your sport then chances are you will be a bit dull, as you will have had to sacrifice basically growing up and interacting like a normal person in favour of constant practice to get there.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2015)

I don't think that's 100% true

The biggest names in golf right now in the men's and ladies game are also the best golfers 

Spieth , McIlroy 

Ko, Park , Lewis , Thompson 

In the UK for the Ladies its Hull and still Davies

Both Spieth and McIlory aren't exactly what you call charismatic and Ko isn't all over social media etc 

But outside golfers they will know those names as opposed to others that have gained popularity via social media


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## Stuey01 (Dec 17, 2015)

Rickie Fowler.

More famous than many more successful golfers due to social media and appealing to the youth market.

I think he is talented and will win majors but to date his fame has far outstripped his success.


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## Matty (Dec 17, 2015)

Jimaroid said:



			Except that's not the same. Rory and Tiger earned those invites by first becoming the best at their sport.
		
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Only one person can be 'the best' and Tiger is far far away from that right now - he gets invited based on past glory so I don't see a huge difference between inviting Tiger along for his past glories to raise publicity levels or inviting an attractive new-comer to boost publicity.

Even with Rory I'm sure there is an element of interest in wondering if Rory will bring his A game along and romp to victory or will he disappear at the cut or withdraw with tooth ache?

Sorry, I disagree - it's exactly the same thing, it's just a different gender and therefore includes all of the gender bias that exists in the world (and I'n not saying gender bias is a good or bad thing - simply pointing out that it exists).


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## Stuey01 (Dec 17, 2015)

Just watched the mark crossfield video where him and locket walk with Paige on her practice round.
She seems like a good laugh, and she has a wonderful short game, really impressive I thought.


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## Three (Dec 17, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This could deteriorate but here goes. Is there anyone in the womens game who can hit shots like Rory or Bubba? Big draws, fades. Dramatic shots to get you out of trouble. Anyone with a short game like Phil? I'm sorry but it is equivalent to mens and womens tennis. They are a mile apart in terms of quality. 

This does not mean that the womens game can not be enjoyed or appreciated but in terms of spectacle it just is not there.
		
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Lexi Thompson is very impressive, hits it long and very well,  Carly Booth does too but she's not as good. 
Michelle Wie also. 

I think the biggest issue with the women's game compared to the men's, is that the men can do stuff that the rest of us can't, ie drive the ball amazing distances and hit high short irons equalling amazing distances. 

Standing on the range or course watching the world's best men players hit the ball is extremely impressive, their distance and repetitive trajectory and accuracy is something that I cannot physically achieve.    With most of the women though, even though they are very very good golfers, there's hardly any of them that can do anything that a guy who can carry the ball 250 yards on a warm day can't do.    

Watching Blubba hit a soaring 7 iron on a par 3 where I hit 5 or 4 is exciting (and slightly depressing ) whereas watching Michelle Wie hitting a 5 iron where any normal low handicapper would hit a 6,  or maybe also 5, is not at all exciting. 

For anyone who doesn't Ike sex-oriented comments, well sorry but many of those girls deliberately go out to look sexy as part of their overall package. It's a big part of how they market themselves, Natalie Gulbis and her enhanced boobs, Ai Miyazato with her skirt and long white socks, the Thai girl with her colourful shorts, it's all part of their "brand" ,  obviously it's going to attract comment because that's what they and their tours are selling. 
If that's not true, why aren't they forced to wear slacks and polo shirts like the men?


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## delc (Dec 17, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			I'm guessing you don't watch much women's sport? 
Some very attractive female golfers. 
Gerina Piller
Charley Hull 
Michelle wie
Lydia Ko
Paula Creamer
Lexi Thompson 
To name a few. 

You must have very high standards delc.
		
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I do actually follow ladies golf and go to watch their tournament at the Buckinghamshire every year. They nearly all have lovely golf swings, and hit the ball the sort of distances I can almost relate to! My favourite lady golfers in no particular order are Carly Booth, Lydia Ko, Cheyenne Woods, Charley Hull, Mel Reid, and now Paige Spiranic.


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 17, 2015)

Top post Three. By the way, "slacks"? That is a word I have not heard for a long time. It does make me shudder a bit though.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2015)

Stuey01 said:



			Rickie Fowler.

More famous than many more successful golfers due to social media and appealing to the youth market.

I think he is talented and will win majors but to date his fame has far outstripped his success.
		
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In the top 6 in the world - been 3rd at one stage 

Right now his fame aligns with his ability


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## Smiffy (Dec 17, 2015)

Got to be honest.... If I turned up at a golf course and there were three or four very attractive, leggy ladies teeing off the 1st, I'd be standing there watching them even though they might all oink the ball twenty yards straight right. If they were all the retired, overweight, librarian types who hit the ball 250 yards straight down the middle, I hate to say it but I'd already be half way through my first pint in the clubhouse. I guess it would be the same if it were all on the television.


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## chrisd (Dec 17, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Got to be honest.... If I turned up at a golf course and there were three or four very attractive, leggy ladies teeing off the 1st, I'd be standing there watching them even though they might all oink the ball twenty yards straight right. If they were all the retired, overweight, librarian types who hit the ball 250 yards straight down the middle, I hate to say it but I'd already be half way through my first pint in the clubhouse. I guess it would be the same if it were all on the television.
		
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If Louise was teeing off Rob??


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## Foxholer (Dec 17, 2015)

Three said:



			Lexi Thompson is very impressive, hits it long and very well,  Carly Booth does too but she's not as good. 
Michelle Wie also. 

I think the biggest issue with the women's game compared to the men's, is that the men can do stuff that the rest of us can't, ie drive the ball amazing distances and hit high short irons equalling amazing distances. 

Standing on the range or course watching the world's best men players hit the ball is extremely impressive, their distance and repetitive trajectory and accuracy is something that I cannot physically achieve.    With most of the women though, even though they are very very good golfers, there's hardly any of them that can do anything that a guy who can carry the ball 250 yards on a warm day can't do.    

Watching Blubba hit a soaring 7 iron on a par 3 where I hit 5 or 4 is exciting (and slightly depressing ) whereas watching Michelle Wie hitting a 5 iron where any normal low handicapper would hit a 6,  or maybe also 5, is not at all exciting. 

For anyone who doesn't Ike sex-oriented comments, well sorry but many of those girls deliberately go out to look sexy as part of their overall package. It's a big part of how they market themselves, Natalie Gulbis and her enhanced boobs, Ai Miyazato with her skirt and long white socks, the Thai girl with her colourful shorts, it's all part of their "brand" ,  obviously it's going to attract comment because that's what they and their tours are selling. 
If that's not true, why aren't they forced to wear slacks and polo shirts like the men?
		
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Pretty much agree with this! I don't believe it's a 'sex oriented' comment, simply a statement of fact about the difference in physical ability between men and women!   

Michelle Wie was (years ago!) a possibility for a 'step change' in quality - the only justification, imo, for her playing on the Men's tour. But that potential fizzled out with her putting woes (and quite possibly a few other things!).

Lydia Ko is the big sensation imo. On another thread, there was a post that mentioned her Double Bogey in the CBE Final was her first in 2 years (I think) of tournament golf!! Now that IS impressive! But her distance is decidedly mediocre and there doesn't seem to be the shot-making skills of male players.


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## Smiffy (Dec 17, 2015)

chrisd said:



			If Louise was teeing off Rob??
		
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I'd watch.


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## patricks148 (Dec 17, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Got to be honest.... If I turned up at a golf course and there were three or four very attractive, leggy ladies teeing off the 1st, I'd be standing there watching them even though they might all oink the ball twenty yards straight right. If they were all the retired, overweight, librarian types who hit the ball 250 yards straight down the middle, I hate to say it but I'd already be half way through my first pint in the clubhouse. I guess it would be the same if it were all on the television.
		
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I bet that would make their day and old perv like you drooling over them, sex offenders register for you next smiffy


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## Dando (Dec 17, 2015)

delc said:



			I do actually follow ladies golf and go to watch their tournament at the Buckinghamshire every year. They nearly all have lovely golf swings, and hit the ball the sort of distances I can almost relate to! My favourite lady golfers in no particular order are Carly Booth, Lydia Ko, Cheyenne Woods, Charley Hull, Mel Reid, and now Paige Spiranic.  

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I must admit that I find neither Paula Creamer or Lexi Thompson at all attractive. Delc, the ones you mention are fine looking but my number 1 in Azahara Munoz


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## Smiffy (Dec 17, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			I bet that would make their day and old perv like you drooling over them, sex offenders register for you next smiffy

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I expect so Patrick.


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## delc (Dec 17, 2015)

Dando said:



			I must admit that I find neither Paula Creamer or Lexi Thompson at all attractive. Delc, the ones you mention are fine looking but my number 1 in Azahara Munoz
		
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Yes, she is a bit of a sweetie.  :thup:


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## Stuey01 (Dec 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			In the top 6 in the world - been 3rd at one stage 

Right now his fame aligns with his ability
		
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It does now, but that's only recently since an upturn in form.
Previously he was a lot more famous than his comparitive lack of success warranted.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2015)

Stuey01 said:



			It does now, but that's only recently since an upturn in form.
Previously he was a lot more famous than his comparitive lack of success warranted.
		
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Really ? He has been a top player since bursting on the scene around 2010 , top Amatuer for years , Rookie of the Year - took him a couple years to get his first win but defiantly his talent was doing the talking.


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## Stuey01 (Dec 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ? He has been a top player since bursting on the scene around 2010 , top Amatuer for years , Rookie of the Year - took him a couple years to get his first win but defiantly his talent was doing the talking.
		
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Yes really.  He has been one of the most famous and recognisable golfers in the world for years on the back of 1 win in 2012, an orange outfit and a flat bill.  It is a triumph of marketability and social media appeal.

Since he went to Butch he has kicked on and did well in the majors last year and won the Scottish open, the players and a FedEx event this year but before that his fame was definitely outstripping his accomplishments.

He's a class player, and I like him and expect him to win majors,  but there is a reason he was voted most over rated by his peers.


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 17, 2015)

He was called most overrated golfer this year which is quite pathetic tbh when you consider how he has improved rack season as he has got on through his career and whilst he is popular - one of the most famous ? A good deal number ahead of him in regards popularity - hence why I think he rise in aclaim has been alongside his rise is form. 

We will have to agree to disagree because I believe he is miles behind a good deal number of golfers in regards popularity


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## Smiffy (Dec 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			We will have to agree to disagree
		
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That's unusual Phil!!


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## JustOne (Dec 17, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			sex offenders register for you next smiffy

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Next?... I think you'll find if you Google his name that he's already on it


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## HomerJSimpson (Dec 17, 2015)

Michelle Wie was a very good example of someone who used media profile (and the power of pushy parent) to arguably push herself above her ability at that time and the foray onto the men's tour was laughable and unnecessary. While Spraniac hasn't taken it to that degree yet, and to be honest I still think she's good for the tour in the amount of interest she has generated, she has to be there on merit and via Q school.


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## garyinderry (Dec 17, 2015)

18 pages and I think I was the only one to comment on her swing.   I'll say it again, its an awesome swing.  Hope she makes it. 



You absolute bunch of scoundrels. :rofl:


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## delc (Dec 17, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			18 pages and I think I was the only one to comment on her swing.   I'll say it again, its an awesome swing.  Hope she makes it.
		
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Can't say I noticed it!


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