# New Golf Thinking...It's a long post



## Khamelion (May 1, 2014)

I've tried to cover the NGT session as best as I could remember from the notes I had made, I know I'll have missed some things and my ramblings below do not do justice to John presentation. 

Okay, so where to start, with putting into words the session on â€˜New Golf Thinkingâ€™ with John, well we can start with, thought provoking, enlightening, surprising.

Jezz kicked things off with a few words around how John had introduced himself to Golf Monthly, how John made them aware of the â€˜New Golf Thinkingâ€™ book, how John had presented a passionate explanation of his ideas and how they had both [Mike & Jezz] had become intrigued with the ideas john had put forward.

John stepped up and introduced himself, he told us that from an early age he had played hockey to an international level and was in the England & Olympic squads with a potential to be selected. He told us how he had a high level position in Proctor and Gamble, in the top 20 of a 133k employee company.  He told us that in his role with P&G he often used golfing related stories to make a point and it was this that pointed him in the direction of â€˜New Golf Thinkingâ€™

So then the day began and we went around the table with each of us giving a very brief intro, name, current handicap and aim in golf, with most of us the aim was to get to single figures or just to enjoy the game. We then filled in the â€˜Can-Doâ€™ section of the â€˜Self-Assessmentâ€™ form and the results were pretty similar across the similar handicaps, with all the mid to high handicappers being close in their scores and the low handicappers being close in their scores. At a guess I would say the high handicappers were marking themselves with 3s, 4s or 5s and the low handicappers marking themselves with 1s and 2s. The lower the score the better. Later on we completed the form and found out our thinking handicap, more on that in a bit.

We started off by talking about mindsets and how certain mindsets can influence you judgement, for example â€œI always bogey this holeâ€, straight away you are thinking that no matter what you do on on this hole you will hit a bogey, you mindset has preloaded you brain with negative thoughts. Simply your mindset is â€˜What you do, what you do not do & and what you let happen.â€™ We talked about a self-fulfilling circle, where, you give yourself a mindset, that then becomes stuck in your head, you act upon that mindset and the results you get are based around your original thought.

This â€˜Can-Doâ€™ section is all about giving you the right thoughts throughout you game, to ensure you are thinking positively at all times, to ensure you are not using negative mindsets and to put you in â€˜Mental Position â€˜Aâ€™â€™

â€˜Mental Position â€˜Aâ€™â€™ in a way is getting you to think you are better than those around you, not in an arrogant way but by flipping negative thoughts on their head. The example used was about playing a stableford comp and that your fellow competitor has more shots than you. Negatively you may think that you are giving him to many shots, but flip it over and it becomes, heâ€™s got more shots than me he must need them.

The day for me was about creating positive thoughts, putting yourself into â€˜Mental Position â€˜Aâ€™â€™ at every opportunity. It will be hard to remember to do this at first but it will become easier and in time second nature. 

I struggle on my comp days with slow play in front of me, it gets rattled and last Saturday after waiting an age I skulled my 56 wedge chest height towards the group that had left the green I was going for. Now Iâ€™ll take MPA and think they are slow because they need to be slow and not let it get to me, Iâ€™ll stay calm, un-rattled and be able to make the shot I want to make.


We all wrote down the following:-

*â€œI will choose mental position â€˜Aâ€™ in every situationâ€*

We signed and dated it and by doing so all 8 of us made the conscious decision there to choose MPA in every situation.

Last thing on MPA, youâ€™re standing on a Par 3 what is it you are going to do? *****

Upon completing the â€˜Self-Assessmentâ€™ questionnaire we went through a couple of the sections that were common to all of us. From the â€˜Result-Drivenâ€™ section, John asked us how many times have you completed a round and in the clubhouse been asked how did you get on?â€™ Only two answers are applicable 1) I got on great and that is the end of it or 2) I was rubbish out there, my driver wasnâ€™t working, the grass was too long, the greens to fast. Weâ€™ve all done this at some point and there was lots of nodding around the table, where a rubbish round is accompanied by a sob story of how it wasnâ€™t your fault. Weâ€™re all guilty of this in some way. This section seemed a back to front, as more often than not with a bad round you get someone to tell the story why, but on many occasion those people often have that story already in their head and are already battling themselves before they get to the first tee. 

We got told either do or donâ€™t there is no try, I mentioned Yoda said this in one of the Star Wars films, John said Yoda got it from him:

Luke: All right, I'll give it a try. 
Yoda: No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try.

Try does not exist in my vocabulary anymore, I will no longer be trying to hit the middle of the fairway with my drives, I will be taking MPA and will be hitting the fairways with my drives. Iâ€™ve done it once, I will do it again and again. MPA, positive thoughts.

We did some work on leaving shots short and how leaving a 20 feet putt 5 feet short is really 9feet 11 inches short. The rationale being that if you give you putt enough to get past the hole, it may go in, but if it doesnâ€™t you can watch it go past and you have the line back to the hole. Whereas if you leave it 5 feet short you are just as worse off as you were at 20feet.

On the same subject, John talked about â€˜Anchorsâ€™ in how a number becomes anchored in your subconscious. The distance markers on the fairway at most clubs will give you a distance to the front of the green, so you pick a club that will get you that far. Most course designersâ€™ will leave bunkers or other hazards at the front, so playing to the number you have in your head more often than not will lead you into trouble. So look to get the distance to the back of the green and select a club that will take you that far so that you are taking the hazards at the front of the green out of the shot straight away.

Last up from what I remember, there is other stuff, which the others will no doubt mention, anyhoo we were given a card to mark our shots on. Not the shot number but whether it was a Career, Improver, Maintainer or Worsener type of shot.

John asked us during our round to make each shot with a C, I, M or W the idea being to build up a memory of good shots with all the club in the bag, so that when you next encounter a similar shot you can recall that memory. By recalling the memory you are removing any negativity you may have as you are having to think about the good shot you played last time. You then do RAF (R)eherse (A)im and (F)low.

Ultimately the book has 7 different areas that will put you into a positive frame of mind for your round of golf, for me I have no doubt this will work, it may take a little time to get used to the ideas, but it will work. For others I have no doubt that they will think itâ€™s just bunkum and will remain sceptical, each to their own. I fully enjoyed the day and will be putting the â€˜New Golf Thinkingâ€™ into practice.

* ****
If you said/thought hit the green, that is not MPA
If you said/thought, Iâ€™m going to put it in the hole, then that is MPA


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## JackieD (May 1, 2014)

Very good read, very interesting stuff. Will try MPA on Saturday!


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## Hacker Khan (May 1, 2014)

Jeez man, I can't remember half of that and I was sat in the same room as you, did you use a Dictaphone (no I use my fingers, be dum tish, I'm here all week and try the veal) or something?

Nice write up and I have nothing really to add apart from, what he said.


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## fundy (May 1, 2014)

great write up Khamelion, thank you


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## Hobbit (May 1, 2014)

Mmm, it was all going so well till the last two sentences.

I prefer to set sensible, achieveable goals.

To say, "I'm going to knock this in the hole" from 150yds out is setting yourself up to fail. Set yourself up to fail too many times and your confidence will take some almighty knocks. 

"I'm going to knock this next to the flag," from 150yds is very much achieveable. And, when you've done it several times on the bounce, you will feed on the confidence that will give you.

"Golf isn't a game of perfect."


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## guest100718 (May 1, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Mmm, it was all going so well till the last two sentences.

I prefer to set sensible, achieveable goals.

To say, "I'm going to knock this in the hole" from 150yds out is setting yourself up to fail. Set yourself up to fail too many times and your confidence will take some almighty knocks. 

"I'm going to knock this next to the flag," from 150yds is very much achieveable. And, when you've done it several times on the bounce, you will feed on the confidence that will give you.

"*Golf isn't a game of perfect*."
		
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Very good....


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## TheClaw (May 1, 2014)

Interesting read. Thanks.


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## Khamelion (May 1, 2014)

Hobbit said:



			Mmm, it was all going so well till the last two sentences.

I prefer to set sensible, achieveable goals.

To say, "I'm going to knock this in the hole" from 150yds out is setting yourself up to fail. Set yourself up to fail too many times and your confidence will take some almighty knocks. 

"I'm going to knock this next to the flag," from 150yds is very much achieveable. And, when you've done it several times on the bounce, you will feed on the confidence that will give you.

"Golf isn't a game of perfect."
		
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It's not about setting yourself up to fail, that is way to negative, it is about giving yourself a positive mindset. If we take the C, I, M & W part. We all aim to get a hole in one on any par 3, if you say you are not then you're lying, after all the whole point of golf is to get the ball into the hole, no matter how many yards away. If you hit your tee shot and it goes in the hole, that is a C, if it doesn't then it has to be, either an I or M, you are maintaining you positive mindset and staying in MPA.

The 8 of us that attended the session are on a hiding to nothing trying to explain to those that are sceptical or those that just simply do not what to accept there is an alternative. The best way to appreciate what we are putting across about the session is to buy the book.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 1, 2014)

The links to download are here
www.newgolfthinking.com 
  amazon georiot.co/EqV    (http://georiot.co/EqV)     
    apple georiot.co/10t2    (http://georiot.co/10t2)

The books cost a fiver and there will be more information in "The Open" edition of the magazine where there will be coverage of our day and more information on the contents of the book itself


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## HomerJSimpson (May 1, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			The 8 of us that attended the session are on a hiding to nothing trying to explain to those that are sceptical or those that just simply do not what to accept there is an alternative. The best way to appreciate what we are putting across about the session is to buy the book.
		
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To be honest, we've explained it as simply as we can but there will always be the usual suspects who see it as something akin to dancing with the devil. I'm not bothering to explain it any further here or the other thread. People have had the opportunity to understand it, feeds to where the book is so they can read it themselves and can read about it in the magazine, but there are certain people on here always looking for an argument on a subject they haven't even had any exposure to


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## Pin-seeker (May 1, 2014)

Sounds like you all enjoyed it & got something out of it. All that matters really.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 1, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			To be honest, we've explained it as simply as we can but there will always be the usual suspects who see it as something akin to dancing with the devil. I'm not bothering to explain it any further here or the other thread. People have had the opportunity to understand it, feeds to where the book is so they can read it themselves and can read about it in the magazine, *but there are certain people on here always looking for an argument on a subject they haven't even had any exposure to*

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Or "certain" people where trying to find out more about it but"certain" people get *immediately defensive* - thankfully someone like Hacker was able to realise that and was more than willing to go into the debate about the "New way of thinking" with other people.

I will look forward to hearing about the improvements it and the other stuff makes to your game and your handicap and scores


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## bozza (May 1, 2014)

Well I've download it onto my iphone so I'll give it a read as the mental side of it is one thing that does seem to affect my golf a lot.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 1, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or "certain" people where trying to find out more about it but"certain" people get *immediately defensive* - thankfully someone like Hacker was able to realise that and was more than willing to go into the debate about the "New way of thinking" with other people.

I will look forward to hearing about the improvements it and the other stuff makes to your game and your handicap and scores
		
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Nope. We've all said that it is very hard to get over in words what was said in the room and yet to make assumptions and comments without a) downloading the book, b) being certain you've taken the comment in absolute context or c) given the eight of us sufficient time to find what we need to work on for our own game and the chance to use the techniques for those needs.

Not defensive at all. Just frustration that like other things, you seem to have an opinion on something you've already declared no interest in using or you don't think is necessary or works. Aimpoint being a prime example. Welcome back to the ignore list.


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## upsidedown (May 1, 2014)

Over 12 years ago I was playing golf with a well known on course commentator for the BBC and on my first approach shot she asked me what I was aiming at ?
"The green."
" No Ben, you need to be aiming to hole the ball " 

Sounds like MPA is not that new


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## Sponge1980 (May 1, 2014)

Good write up there Khamelion. I'm with you on the slow play thing, gets to me every time too. Think I'll give the book a go.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 1, 2014)

upsidedown said:



			Over 12 years ago I was playing golf with a well known on course commentator for the BBC and on my first approach shot she asked me what I was aiming at ?
"The green."
" No Ben, you need to be aiming to hole the ball " 

Sounds like MPA is not that new 

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Well done, you have mastered about 2% of what MPA is about 

Chapter 5 "Can Do" explains all


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## need_my_wedge (May 2, 2014)

Hacker has already written a fairly concise summary of the day. I started to write my first 150 word post for GM, realizing that there was no way I could include even 10 % of the day in 150 words, so Iâ€™ll just append my take to this thread. I donâ€™t want this post to start another debate on the same things being discussed in the other thread, itâ€™s just my take on the day in more detail than I could write for the mag.

Iâ€™ve been hovering around an18 handicap give or take for a couple of years now. I havenâ€™t made any significant moves past this point, despite knowing that I can play better. So I looked at this opportunity as a way to change this. I arrived at The Grove a little nervous but keen to learn something that will help me improve my golf game. Most of the guys were already there, so handshakes, introductions and putting face to names done, we kicked off about 10 minutes early.

A quick presentation from Jezz Elwood sharing his and GMâ€™s passion for this idea, and introducing John Oâ€™Keeffe the author, followed by Johnâ€™s own introduction and rough biography. John comes across as a very strong and confident character, which is supported by his history of being an Olympic level hockey player, and ex-group president of Proctor & Gamble. He has a good pedigree for an inspirational speaker.

He kicked into the presentation quite quickly, where it became quite clear that this was all about CAN-DO. The main premise being that you either Do something, or DONâ€™T do something, there is no TRY to do something. Some may argue that in the line of positive thinking, this is not really anything new. Iâ€™m sure that is true, but the spin that John is promoting is to take common problems and get you to think about them in a new way. One of the examples here is leaving  â€œshortiesâ€ all the time, whether it be a wedge from 100 yds, or a chip from the edge of the green, pitch from a bunker or a putt from the centre of the green. We all did a self-assessment on our game play, which for the higher handicappers highlighted shorties as key failing in their play. This has since prompted some lively debate in the other forum thread on the day. 

The book is designed to promote seven techniques that can help players of all levels, which all of us there on the day found something of use, whether we were a 20+ handicapper or a 5 handicapper. I donâ€™t think the book has hard and fast single point fixes, i.e. if you do this it will cut 3 shots off your score every round. But it does give you a number of thought processes, that if you apply to each shot every time you play, will help you affect the simple errors and negative thoughts that too often creep into our games. 

Of course a high handicapper will require different aspects of help to a low handicapper, itâ€™s not just a case of saying â€œthink positive and you will play wellâ€. The book gives you a mindset to think positive, to recognize when you are slipping out of the mindset, and how to get back into the mindset after youâ€™ve had a blip. 

One of the techniques is to put yourself in mental position A for every shot (now coined by me in the previous thread as MPA). This is not always easy to do, especially if you've just put it in the trees or the cabbage. If you have no relief, often the only way you can improve your lie from a shot like this is in your mind. It will take a bit of effort to apply this every time, but  I'm willing to DO it.

One of the arguments in the previous thread is that we are now going to over think as a result of the day. This may be true in the short term, but the idea of the book is to find the areas you can improve, and then focus on one at a time until it becomes second nature, and then go for another one, not to try and smash everything in one foul swoop.

It was an intensive morning session, we only covered about 14% of the book in the three hour session, and that was probably a lot more to take on board than I could cope with. Thatâ€™s how I felt on the day, but reflecting back and discussing in the forum has let me see that I actually took in more than I thought.  The difficulty for me is transferring what was said during the session to the forums in a way that make it as plausible as John did.  I think this is highly unlikely, so am just focusing on my own musings for the day.

During lunch the afternoon fourballs were drawn, myself with Jezz Elwood, Pieman and Khamelion, whilst Homer was drawn with SaintHacker, Hacker Khan and Fragger. We ventured down to the range to be greeted by a lovely grass â€œmatâ€ and small pyramids of TaylorMade balls to practice with. We only had a short 15 mins before we had to venture back to the tee, with me teeing off second behind Pieman.

The first tee was quite daunting, situated right by the bar, with quite a few folks around watching, but managed to put a good drive down the left side, leaving me a 100yd pitch, which I put pin high three feet from the pin, stopping about an inch to the right of my pitch mark. Sinking the putt prompted a â€œwhat handicap do you play off?â€ from Jezz . We werenâ€™t playing any kind of comp as we were trying to apply the lessons from the morning, specifically the marking of CIMW shots, which I think is probably better left for practice rounds in the first instanceâ€¦.. I managed to lose my ball on the 2nd hole after a wild drive, hit tree on 2nd shot, leaving a blind shot to the pin from the other fairway, from where no one saw the ball landâ€¦.. but, no stories allowed 

I didnâ€™t play my best golf by a long shot, but the course was in great condition, long off the medal tees, and fairly exposed with a good breeze swirling around. It was tough in parts but the company was good and made for an enjoyable round. A birdie and a handful of pars kept the bad stuff in check and managed to get through the round without sinking into any negative thoughts. Thereâ€™s a lot of room for improvement, and managing the thought process better will help.
 All in all I enjoyed the day; it was hard not to be enthused by Johnâ€™s own enthusiasm and confidence. Regardless of the thoughts expressed in the forum thus far, Iâ€™m planning on sticking with a couple of the ideas for the next month to see what it does for me, the key being what it does for me.


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## Khamelion (May 2, 2014)

Nice one Bryan. Like yourself, I've no idea how I'm going to sum up in 150 words the day at the Grove, but I will have to get something out to Jezz today.

It was a great day, all 8 of us have got ideas from the book which we will use in forth coming rounds, as Bryan writes, John's enthusiasm was infectious and the 8 of us trying to impart that enthusiasm through our misguided ramblings does not in anyway do the session or John the justice he so readily deserves.


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## need_my_wedge (May 2, 2014)

Small error on my part. I referred to Hacker at the start of my post when I meant Khamelion. Apologies Dave.


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## richart (May 2, 2014)

I skimmed through this, but could someone tell me if John is a golfer ? I read he played hockey, worked for P & G but couldn't see any mention of playing himself.


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## Rooter (May 2, 2014)

richart said:



			I skimmed through this, but could someone tell me if John is a golfer ? I read he played hockey, worked for P & G but couldn't see any mention of playing himself.
		
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jezz mentioned he is a single figure golfer and the book is endorsed (not sure if co-written) with Dennis Pugh.


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## HickoryShaft (May 2, 2014)

Really interesting post - thanks.

I know its not everyone's cup of tea but those that went certainly seem to feel it is worthwhile.

Based on the above I am going to grab the book and give it a go - mainly because I recognise some of the issues you have highlighted here and how they affect my play. 

Looking forward to the update also -  ignore the doubters & keep posting


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## PieMan (May 2, 2014)

I played this morning so looked at the book again last night, and at the notes that I made on the day on my way to the course. End result - a +1 gross 70!

So obviously working for me at the moment  :thup:


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## Rooter (May 2, 2014)

PieMan said:



			I played this morning so looked at the book again last night, and at the notes that I made on the day on my way to the course. End result - a +1 gross 70!

So obviously working for me at the moment  :thup:
		
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obviously a bandit!  great shooting dude!!!


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## fundy (May 2, 2014)

PieMan said:



			I played this morning so looked at the book again last night, and at the notes that I made on the day on my way to the course. End result - a +1 gross 70!

So obviously working for me at the moment  :thup:
		
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good stuff Paul, top shooting


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## SaintHacker (May 2, 2014)

Chaps, when did Jezz say he wanted the write up in by, and what exactly was it he wanted included? Not that Ive forgotten or anything...


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## need_my_wedge (May 2, 2014)

150 words on your take of the day, by the weekend .


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## Khamelion (May 2, 2014)

or it'll be the 150 word write up and 1000 lines as punishment for not getting you work in on time.

Now repeat after me

I will not hit the ball short


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## PieMan (May 2, 2014)

need_my_wedge said:



			150 words on your take of the day, by the weekend .
		
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Pretty sure Jezz said that it needed to be in by Monday.


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## richart (May 2, 2014)

PieMan said:



			I played this morning so looked at the book again last night, and at the notes that I made on the day on my way to the course. End result - a +1 gross 70!

So obviously working for me at the moment  :thup:
		
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 Good shooting Paul, now get on with your homework.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 2, 2014)

Done mine, thought Id best do it quick before my brain cell forgot it all


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## Daviefow (May 2, 2014)

Sorry but I couldn't make it past the fourth paragraph and it looked like it could have been an interesting read. Bit of casual racism re the England Olympic Team?


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## JezzE (May 2, 2014)

PieMan said:



			Pretty sure Jezz said that it needed to be in by Monday.
		
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Middle of next week is fine - I'm out till Weds so will look to be going through everything then...


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## Hacker Khan (May 2, 2014)

Daviefow said:



			Sorry but I couldn't make it past the fourth paragraph and it looked like it could have been an interesting read. Bit of casual racism re the England Olympic Team?
		
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Care to elaborate on exactly what was casual racism. Which paragraph are you referring to?


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## Daviefow (May 2, 2014)

R u serious mate? That would be the fourth paragraph, ie the one I couldn't make it past. And surprise, surprise the England Olympic Team, was the point. Casually inferring that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales were regions of England? The fact I needed to point this out to you is really dumbfounding!


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## Rooter (May 2, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Care to elaborate on exactly what was casual racism. Which paragraph are you referring to?
		
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I had to re read it twice to click it was about England and Olympic team I thinks.. Meh!


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## need_my_wedge (May 2, 2014)

Daviefow said:



			R u serious mate? That would be the fourth paragraph, ie the one I couldn't make it past. And surprise, surprise the England Olympic Team, was the point. Casually inferring that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales were regions of England? The fact I needed to point this out to you is really dumbfounding!
		
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Wow......

I think that says more about you than Dave. I'm sure John said he was an England international and was in the Olympic squad. I doubt very much that Dave was inferring any kind of racism, maybe omitted the word "and" or maybe just mixed up his train of thought, but even as it is written, wouldn't ever translate that the way you did...


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## Hacker Khan (May 2, 2014)

Daviefow said:



			R u serious mate? That would be the fourth paragraph, ie the one I couldn't make it past. And surprise, surprise the England Olympic Team, was the point. Casually inferring that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales were regions of England? The fact I needed to point this out to you is really dumbfounding!
		
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Good to see you are not blowing it completely out of proportion and not reading too much info it then.....

And dumbfounding people is my specialality, so thanks for the quote to put on future tour posters


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## c1973 (May 2, 2014)

I can't see how that can be classed as racism tbh. Confused UK with England perhaps, so casual confusion maybe?


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## AmandaJR (May 2, 2014)

Casual mistake perhaps - but racism? Really?!


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## Daviefow (May 2, 2014)

Need my wedge, it explicitly says the English Olympic team.
C1987 casual ignorance maybe, but ignorance can not be used as an excuse for denying people of their nationality? Did Ryan Giggs play for the English Olympic team, did sir chris hoy compete for the English olympic team? 
I don't think it was intentional in any way but that does not excuse it.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 2, 2014)

In Hockey the Olympic squad is regulary referred to as England Hockey Squad 

Its not racism.


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## c1973 (May 2, 2014)

A bit like the curlers always being referred to as Scottish perhaps?


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## tsped83 (May 2, 2014)

Daviefow said:



			Need my wedge, it explicitly says the English Olympic team.
C1987 casual ignorance maybe, but ignorance can not be used as an excuse for denying people of their nationality? Did Ryan Giggs play for the English Olympic team, did sir chris hoy compete for the English olympic team? 
I don't think it was intentional in any way but that does not excuse it.
		
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Wow.


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## Daviefow (May 2, 2014)

That must be ok then seen as how we have always done it? Draw any comparison you would like from that piece of sarcasm.

Look I'm not on here for an argument, I was trying to point out the comment is offensive to a lot of people. I will again repeat I don't think it was intentional but that does not make it ok either.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 2, 2014)

Back on topic now please chaps

Thank you

Might have to have a little tidy up as thread has gone a bit off topic


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## Andy808 (May 2, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			The 8 of us that attended the session are on a hiding to nothing trying to explain to those that are sceptical or those that just simply do not what to accept there is an alternative. The best way to appreciate what we are putting across about the session is to buy the book.
		
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No your not really. I agree with the theory as I have used a similar one from reading Golf is not a game of perfect and it does work very well. The things said in the OP are of the same ilk as Bob Rotella with forgetting your bad shots and remember the good ones, don't have negative thoughts as they will cause negative shots, don't clutter the mind with swing thoughts, focus on as small a target as possible and go for the hole inside 100 yards. The biggest thing is to enjoy the game. 
Hope you can all learn from the experiences you will receive during the course and if you heed what he teaches it will improve your game and your enjoyment of the game. Reading the Rotella book and understanding myself more has improved my game and enjoyment of the game no end.


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## Region3 (May 3, 2014)

Daviefow said:



			Need my wedge, it explicitly says the English Olympic team.
		
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No it doesn't. Please go back and read it again if you think I've manipulated the following quote to include the ampersand.




			[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]and was in the England & Olympic squad
		
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[/FONT]


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## PhilTheFragger (May 3, 2014)

Region3 said:



			No it doesn't. Please go back and read it again if you think I've manipulated the following quote to include the ampersand.

[/FONT]
		
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That's because I altered it with the permission of the OP for clarity and to stop the silly accusation of racism
#supermodpowers


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## Liverpoolphil (May 3, 2014)

Well have so far only had a quick read of the introduction

What's this business about current authorities not saying that current methods "don't work" - is there proof that current thinking doesn't work ?


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## chrisd (May 3, 2014)

I responded yesterday to a text from John O'keefe offering an assessment to those not selected for the Grove. I did the test and came out as an average 12, I bought the book and am well on the way through reading it. I wonder if it'll help and where, if at all, it differs from other golf psychology books I've read.


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## philly169 (May 3, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I responded yesterday to a text from John O'keefe offering an assessment to those not selected for the Grove. I did the test and came out as an average 12, I bought the book and am well on the way through reading it. I wonder if it'll help and where, if at all, it differs from other golf psychology books I've read.
		
Click to expand...

Same with me, going to have a look over the weekend.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well have so far only had a quick read of the introduction

What's this business about current authorities not saying that current methods "don't work" - is there proof that current thinking doesn't work ?
		
Click to expand...

Yes because with all the improvements in club technology, practise facilities, diet, hydration etc etc
Average handicaps havn't changed in 25 years

Yours might have, but average hasn't , the book covers this on page 14

Read on


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## c1973 (May 3, 2014)

I read it yesterday, thinking 'ok I may get something out of this, give it a go'. Unfortunately it's not for me, I still think these 'simple' techniques will clutter the mind somewhat. Imagining motorways and roundabouts in order to get to the flag is (to my mind) absolute nonsense. I still think the middle of the green allows more margin for error (be honest with your distances folks) than aiming to the back.

The slow play section was in places (i felt) contradictory, saying old thinking doesn't work then recommending what is in effect 'ready' golf. Is that not 'old thinking'? 

However, I can see how others may feel it is useful to them and it is laid out in an easily accessible manner which is good. 
I quite liked the idea of marker posts to indicate where groups should be on the course timewise though.

Best of luck to those using the techniques, I hope your scores start to tumble.:thup:


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## vkurup (May 3, 2014)

chrisd said:



			I responded yesterday to a text from John O'keefe offering an assessment to those not selected for the Grove. I did the test and came out as an average 12, I bought the book and am well on the way through reading it. I wonder if it'll help and where, if at all, it differs from other golf psychology books I've read.
		
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how did you manage an assessment with John?


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## Rooter (May 3, 2014)

vkurup said:



			how did you manage an assessment with John?
		
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I believe John has contacted a number of people that applied for the day and were not chosen to attend (plus me who couldn't attend) to be part of a further panel, "the book panel" in the email we were sent a questionnaire to get your thinking handicap, see pic below, its pretty easy. my handicap came out at 19 which gives me lots of facets to work on with a view to reducing my actual playing handicap.


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## Khamelion (May 3, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I believe John has contacted a number of people that applied for the day and were not chosen to attend (plus me who couldn't attend) to be part of a further panel, "the book panel" in the email we were sent a questionnaire to get your thinking handicap, see pic below, its pretty easy. my handicap came out at 19 which gives me lots of facets to work on with a view to reducing my actual playing handicap.

View attachment 10284

Click to expand...

On the day at the Grove, mine came out as 19.4 (19) as well, with 'Freshen Up' and 'Rise to the Occasion' as being the two areas I need to look at first.


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## Rooter (May 3, 2014)

This is my priority from john:  Make your priority to do first CAN-DO ( because it affects the others) , RISE-TO -OCCASION and BOUNCE-BACK


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## vkurup (May 3, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I believe John has contacted a number of people that applied for the day and were not chosen to attend (plus me who couldn't attend) to be part of a further panel, "the book panel" in the email we were sent a questionnaire to get your thinking handicap, see pic below, its pretty easy. my handicap came out at 19 which gives me lots of facets to work on with a view to reducing my actual playing handicap.

View attachment 10284

Click to expand...

Then assume he has access to mine # somewhere... If ever he needed the next lot of people for the Grove then he knows where to find it.

Interesting questionnaire, will fill out once I am back from my MOT.  

Just out of interest, did anyone come lower than actual HC i.e. plays off 18, but thinks like 12???


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## Rooter (May 3, 2014)

vkurup said:



			Just out of interest, did anyone come lower than actual HC i.e. plays off 18, but thinks like 12???
		
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I know someone off 7 who has a thinking handicap of 19!  how low will they be able to go thinking their way round better??


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## Khamelion (May 3, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I know someone off 7 who has a thinking handicap of 19!  how low will they be able to go thinking their way round better??
		
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Once the 8 of us at the Grove had all done the self assessment, John wrote the numbers up on he flip chart and the GM tog got one or two, dunno if they'll be in the mag or not.


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## Hacker Khan (May 3, 2014)

Well just been down the range and concentrated on the RAF technique (rehearse in 3D, aim and go with the flow I think) and I definitely had one of the best range sessions I have ever had. Of course I have had good ones before and it could all be coincidental as I appreciate that there probably is a subconscious push from those that went on the day to prove it works.  But by doing the RAF thing, without realising at the time, I stopped getting over analytical and thinking about my swing too much and just trusting my instincts.  

Biggest thing for me was hitting hybrids.  Recently I have lost all confidence in them and as soon as I put one in my hand I go to pieces and produce hideous duck hooks.  But today it kind of came back to me and I was hitting them a lot better.

Once again I appreciate that this is just one session at the range, the proof is out there on the course and what I did is not rocket science, indeed I am sure many others have done the same thing.  But sometimes you just need that push to try things out and that is what the day and the book has given me.  I'm hopefully playing a proper round on Monday where *I will definitely *(some positive thinking there ) translate it to the course, I'll let you know.


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## Hobbit (May 3, 2014)

Golf handicap 5, thinking handicap 3... have I wasted my money on the book when I should be having lessons?


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## Khamelion (May 3, 2014)

1hr to go before todays thread, got new balls marked up, lucozade out the fridge, I'm in a MPA frame of mind and got my memory shots ready on playback in my head.

So I'm out to break 80 today for the first time and get the first cut of my HC for the season.


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## Hobbit (May 3, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			1hr to go before todays thread, got new balls marked up, lucozade out the fridge, I'm in a MPA frame of mind and got my memory shots ready on playback in my head.

So I'm out to break 80 today for the first time and get the first cut of my HC for the season.
		
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Play well Davey.


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## Rooter (May 3, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			1hr to go before todays thread, got new balls marked up, lucozade out the fridge, I'm in a MPA frame of mind and got my memory shots ready on playback in my head.

So I'm out to break 80 today for the first time and get the first cut of my HC for the season.
		
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Go get em Tiger! Rarrrrrrr!


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## fundy (May 3, 2014)

Rooter said:



			I know someone off 7 who has a thinking handicap of 19!  how low will they be able to go thinking their way round better??
		
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He also wishes he hadnt read the book before playing in the comp today too lol. Tried to run before I can walk with some of it, especially having no technical swing thoughts at all today - upshot being couldnt hit the rear end of a cow with a banjo lol, dont think Id have broken 90 if it had been a medal (and thats with 2 chip ins and a couple of other birdies in there!)


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## Liverpoolphil (May 3, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Yes because with all the improvements in club technology, practise facilities, diet, hydration etc etc
Average handicaps havn't changed in 25 years

Yours might have, but average hasn't , the book covers this on page 14

Read on
		
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Yes read that page 

But there is one vital element that has been proven to keep scores the same both in the pro and amateur game and it's an element that the author either ignores or fails to mention - the ever changing face of the course , the lengthening of courses , the toughening up of courses which have happened dramatically over the past 10-20 years to combat the change in equipment etc - new courses are built to combat the improvement in technology.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes read that page 

But there is one vital element that has been proven to keep scores the same both in the pro and amateur game and it's an element that the author either ignores or fails to mention - the ever changing face of the course , the lengthening of courses , the toughening up of courses which have happened dramatically over the past 10-20 years to combat the change in equipment etc - new courses are built to combat the improvement in technology.
		
Click to expand...

Agree that for the pros and elite amateur Golfers, tees have been moved back and in new courses you sometimes see 5 sets of tees.
But I reckon that you will find that the course distance of the yellows ( where most of us play from) and the whites or medal tees havnt changed much,

Now I know that you are going to disagree and come up with loads of examples, but I suggest you ask your ground staff if the tees have changed much in the last 25 years and the majority answer will be NO

Next question please


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## Hobbit (May 3, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes read that page 

But there is one vital element that has been proven to keep scores the same both in the pro and amateur game and it's an element that the author either ignores or fails to mention - the ever changing face of the course , the lengthening of courses , the toughening up of courses which have happened dramatically over the past 10-20 years to combat the change in equipment etc - new courses are built to combat the improvement in technology.
		
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But the vast majority of club golfers play at courses that haven't changed for donkey's years. As a percentage of courses available, how many new ones are there? Probably less than 1%. Of the majority of established courses, how many have been toughened up "dramatically?" Probably less than 1%. The odd extra bunker and new tee, without a doubt, but dramatically...? Utter Rollox!

I played a lot of 'away' golf last year, the majority of which was on courses I've been playing for over 30yrs, and I've seen very little change to those courses. Some of the new courses I've played have big rolling USGA greens, which make putting a little more difficult...but "the ever changing face of the course?!...dramatically?!" :rofl::smirk:


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## PhilTheFragger (May 3, 2014)

Well that shut him up.
Come on LP admit you are talking a load of dingos kidneys


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## HomerJSimpson (May 3, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Well that shut him up.
Come on LP admit you are talking a load of dingos kidneys 

Click to expand...

No chance of that happening.

Hit it great and should have been better. No stories. Very positive mindset all the way round bar a dip coming off 15 having 3 putted and on 16 having taken 4 to get down from edge of the green. Funny thing after giving it the "must club to the back" I found it harder to commit to do on a course I knew rather than the Grove where I didn't have any idea of where I was going and what may or may not have been lurking long. It was hard to make myself do it and I'll be honest there were a couple of holes I didn't and guess what. I came up to the front and three putted. 

I rarely take a practice swing these days so the full RAF is tricky. However I found myself looking down the fairway off the tee or towards the green, picking a precise target, taking a waggle, final look at the target and swinging. No room for anything technical and 9/12 FIR and 9/18 GIR would say that is making a difference. A simple change of routine that didn't feel unduly contrived.

So was it a success. 0.1 back to get the likes of LP and others moaning that of course not. I'd say the 38 putts were the culprit and think it was a rare bad day with the putter as it's usually reliable. The FIR and GIR are much improved and even when I did hit poor shots, I was able to find a MPA most of the time.

I've a relaxed social format tomorrow so can go ahead and work on the shorties, focus on MPA and RAF and try and make it more second nature. For a first attempt there was more positives than negatives to take away from the process. I need to look at dwelling on mistakes to deal with times like 15 and 16 but overall there was a definite improvement to my mindset and the ball striking reflected that


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## sev112 (May 3, 2014)

Handicaps will never go down because every year there hundreds of new golfers coming into the game with handicaps of 24 and 36.
No matter what incremental improvement the rest of us manage, it cannot impact on an "average" calculation which is totally dominated by the handicaps of these new people


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## moogie (May 4, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			1hr to go before todays thread, got new balls marked up, lucozade out the fridge, I'm in a MPA frame of mind and got my memory shots ready on playback in my head.

So I'm out to break 80 today for the first time and get the first cut of my HC for the season.
		
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Well Dave........
Did u break 80.........???
Did u get a cut.........???


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## TheClaw (May 4, 2014)

I got the sample on kindle for iPad but there is some text overlap. Has anyone else got it for their iPad and is there a lot of formatting issues etc?


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## PhilTheFragger (May 4, 2014)

TheClaw said:



			I got the sample on kindle for iPad but there is some text overlap. Has anyone else got it for their iPad and is there a lot of formatting issues etc?
		
Click to expand...

On the iPad or iPhone it's best to use the IBooks app
Hope that sorts you out


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

Sorry for the delay Fragger 

On course changes - my current course has changed 11 out of 17 holes over the last ten years to make it both longer and tougher to bring the scores back up - it has done that.

The Woburn courses are constantly changing - greens being made tougher , bunkers placed in tougher areas and again holes lengthened. - Duchess this year has been extended by just under 200 yards from  the blues 

And another thing that has helped keep handicaps and scores the same - CSS on courses and off course as been mentioned - all the new people playing the game being giving very high handicaps - I know that won't fit "my golf Thinking" but it is certainly more plausible than "thinking" has stopped the high handicaps changing 

Oh and Homer - are you claiming some royalties from his books - it appears he is using paragraphs from your blog ? Is he giving you writing credits for that ?


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## chrisd (May 4, 2014)

TheClaw said:



			I got the sample on kindle for iPad but there is some text overlap. Has anyone else got it for their iPad and is there a lot of formatting issues etc?
		
Click to expand...

The text overlap is there on mine but is just readable


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## PhilTheFragger (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry for the delay Fragger 

On course changes - my current course has changed 11 out of 17 holes over the last ten years to make it both longer and tougher to bring the scores back up - it has done that.

The Woburn courses are constantly changing - greens being made tougher , bunkers placed in tougher areas and again holes lengthened. - Duchess this year has been extended by just under 200 yards from  the blues 

And another thing that has helped keep handicaps and scores the same - CSS on courses and off course as been mentioned - all the new people playing the game being giving very high handicaps - I know that won't fit "my golf Thinking" but it is certainly more plausible than "thinking" has stopped the high handicaps changing 

Oh and Homer - are you claiming some royalties from his books - it appears he is using paragraphs from your blog ? Is he giving you writing credits for that ?
		
Click to expand...


That's Woburn , they have money to spend and are trying to attract big name tournaments. What tees are the blues are they the same as standard 
yellow or whites? I suspect not.

I'm talking about normal courses for normal Golfers, not the privileged few 

Can you prove that new Golfers are being given higher handicaps than in previous years?


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## Khamelion (May 4, 2014)

chrisd said:



			The text overlap is there on mine but is just readable
		
Click to expand...

If you buy the kindle version from Amazon to read on an iPad, you'll get the overlap, to avoid that buy the ibook version from apple.


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## Khamelion (May 4, 2014)

moogie said:



			Well Dave........
Did u break 80.........???
Did u get a cut.........???
		
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Sadly, not. That written I have got lots of positives to take from my round going forward.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			That's Woburn , they have money to spend and are trying to attract big name tournaments. What tees are the blues are they the same as standard 
yellow or whites? I suspect not.

I'm talking about normal courses for normal Golfers, not the privileged few 

Can you prove that new Golfers are being given higher handicaps than in previous years?
		
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Can you prove that "thinking" is the reason why handicaps are staying the same ? 

I have just done over the last week - 25 new golfers into our club with new handicaps coming into club golf - the lowest handicap from those players - 25 

And I also mentioned that my current home course have changed 11 out of 17 holes

Buckingham has extended it's course and changed it's green in recent years , Beds and County and Dunstable Downs also

The Bedford and Bedfordshire were both built with holes to combat big hitters 

The a Duchess has been extended by 157 yards on the yellows - the won't play anything but club golf on the Duchess - are they not normal golfers playing there then ?


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## tsped83 (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you prove that "thinking" is the reason why handicaps are staying the same ? 

I have just done over the last week - 25 new golfers into our club with new handicaps coming into club golf - the lowest handicap from those players - 25 

And I also mentioned that my current home course have changed 11 out of 17 holes

Buckingham has extended it's course and changed it's green in recent years , Beds and County and Dunstable Downs also

The Bedford and Bedfordshire were both built with holes to combat big hitters 

The a Duchess has been extended by 157 yards on the yellows - the won't play anything but club golf on the Duchess - are they not normal golfers playing there then ?
		
Click to expand...

Why is scientific proof always required Phil? Are you Mulder in disguise?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

tsped83 said:



			Why is scientific proof always required Phil? Are you Mulder in disguise?
		
Click to expand...


It was in response for someone asking me for proof :thup:

When someone makes bold claims - and John O Keeffe makes a fair number of them in his book then surely for them to be taken seriously then some proof to back them up would be beneficial :thup:

Do we know if John has recruited any pros etc


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## Imurg (May 4, 2014)

Why do you care?
You clearly are not going to use the principles in the book so why bother to keep commenting on the subject?
We know your views, you don't have to reiterate them every 3rd post....


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Why do you care?
You clearly are not going to use the principles in the book so why bother to keep commenting on the subject?
We know your views, you don't have to reiterate them every 3rd post....
		
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Sorry didn't realise I couldn't comment on the book as I read it after references from everyone on here.


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## User20205 (May 4, 2014)

I've read 4 chapters, to this point not much is new. New to golf maybe, but it seems to be rehashed sales training. That's not to say I won't benefit, I think I could, but I have a few questions;

Is the career shot point a little at odds with the club up point? I mean, if I aim for a career shot as implied, but I miss, the risk reward element of the game would mean that a score worsener would be more likely than a score improver.
The club up point seems to imply play the percentages.

Also how can I possibly turn a massive slice OB, or a missed 2 foot putt into a opportunity? The implication is that you control your reaction, so react positively. I can't think of a positive spin on the above.

Any clarification is appreciated.

Finally, a general point really. As mentioned the book borrows from sales specific training methods. These revolve around using lessons learned in high performance in the business environment, an understanding of this is key.

What if I'm a bin man? Or a burger flipper... Or worse, a student. I have no high performance touchstone !

That said, there seems to be lessons to be learned, you've just got to pan for those nuggets (or so I remember from sales 101)


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## PhilTheFragger (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you prove that "thinking" is the reason why handicaps are staying the same ? 

I have just done over the last week - 25 new golfers into our club with new handicaps coming into club golf - the lowest handicap from those players - 25 

And I also mentioned that my current home course have changed 11 out of 17 holes

Buckingham has extended it's course and changed it's green in recent years , Beds and County and Dunstable Downs also

The Bedford and Bedfordshire were both built with holes to combat big hitters 

The a Duchess has been extended by 157 yards on the yellows - the won't play anything but club golf on the Duchess - are they not normal golfers playing there then ?
		
Click to expand...


You never cease to amaze me, you happen to have the exact information on recent members handicaps available to back up your theory, how convenient, no doubt then,you will also be able to confirm what new members average handicaps were 5. 10 and 15 years ago. as without the comparison, your statement is worthless. 

Pages 14 & 15 cover a host of technological improvements which havn't resulted in improved scoring , so why not give the thinking side a go to see if it can help.

The fact that you are so intent on dismissing it simply shows that you are not open to new ideas.

Read the book, do the self test, pick a couple of areas to work on, and see how it goes, but please do not casually dismiss something that many will find helpful


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## chrisd (May 4, 2014)

Having bashed through the book in record time ( I will go more slowly through it again) I played in a Stableford today. I shot 30 points but felt I played better than that. On the back 9 I had a poor start and won't bore anyone with the details but what I did,  and the book helped to, was to continue trying hard to score, instead of accepting a poor score and giving up. 

I felt better for having read it and trying to grind out a better score than I otherwise would have!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			You never cease to amaze me, you happen to have the exact information on recent members handicaps available to back up your theory, how convenient, no doubt then,you will also be able to confirm what new members average handicaps were 5. 10 and 15 years ago. as without the comparison, your statement is worthless. 

Pages 14 & 15 cover a host of technological improvements which havn't resulted in improved scoring , so why not give the thinking side a go to see if it can help.

The fact that you are so intent on dismissing it simply shows that you are not open to new ideas.

Read the book, do the self test, pick a couple of areas to work on, and see how it goes, but please do not casually dismiss something that many will find helpful
		
Click to expand...

No but I can certainly find out and check through our records wouldn't be hard to find

And yes I believe I can dismiss theories that haven't been "proved" - it appears you are ok to dismiss my theories on the handicaps and scoring ? 

I have read page 14 and 15 - it just a list at the end of the day and there are lots of stuff on the list that isn't available to all golfers ( slow motion analysis ?!? ) 

I have purchased the book and I am reading it - as Therod has said - there I nothing "new" that has appeared yet as seen a lot those methods appear during management training courses. 

Can people not question the methods and theory ? So far the thinking is the same - less is best and enjoy and be positive


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## PhilTheFragger (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			No but I can certainly find out and check through our records wouldn't be hard to find

And yes I believe I can dismiss theories that haven't been "proved" - it appears you are ok to dismiss my theories on the handicaps and scoring ? 

I have read page 14 and 15 - it just a list at the end of the day and there are lots of stuff on the list that isn't available to all golfers ( slow motion analysis ?!? ) 

I have purchased the book and I am reading it - as Therod has said - there I nothing "new" that has appeared yet as seen a lot those methods appear during management training courses. 

Can people not question the methods and theory ? So far the thinking is the same - less is best and enjoy and be positive
		
Click to expand...

So your sweeping statement "all the new people playing the game being giving very high handicaps" is based on pure guesswork without any idea of what has happened in the past.

thank you for clarifying that for us


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			So your sweeping statement "all the new people playing the game being giving very high handicaps" is based on pure guesswork without any idea of what has happened in the past.

thank you for clarifying that for us
		
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My statement was based on what I have witnessed with both myself ( getting a high handicap 5 years ago ) and seeing the handicaps being given to new members at my club 

Oh I believe Sev also made the same point in post #74 - I'm sure you will also take the tone towards him :thup:

So do you know which pro golfers John is currently working with ?


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## PhilTheFragger (May 4, 2014)

Sevs point was different to yours, his point was that newer golfers with high handicaps are always going to effect the average handicap, 

where as in fact we are always being told that less people are starting golf, so actually the reduction in numbers should actually push down the average handicap.

Your point was that newer golfers are being given higher handicaps than in previous years, a point that you are unable to prove and is therefore, pure speculation


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Sevs point was different to yours, his point was that newer golfers with high handicaps are always going to effect the average handicap, 

where as in fact we are always being told that less people are starting golf, so actually the reduction in numbers should actually push down the average handicap.

*Your point was that newer golfers are being given higher handicaps than in previous years*, a point that you are unable to prove and is therefore, pure speculation
		
Click to expand...

*off course as been mentioned - all the new people playing the game being giving very high handicaps*

Above is what I have posted - seems different to what you think I'm suggesting ?


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## TheClaw (May 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			On the iPad or iPhone it's best to use the IBooks app
Hope that sorts you out
		
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll get it from Apple then.


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## moogie (May 4, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Sadly, not. That written I have got lots of positives to take from my round going forward.
		
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So.......Howay Dave.............What did u score......??
Close to Cut......??
Play to Handicap.......??
Hit Buffer............??
Or
On join the 0.1 Club......??

And what positives are you taking forward.......??


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## JezzE (May 4, 2014)

moogie said:



			So.......Howay Dave.............What did u score......??
Close to Cut......??
Play to Handicap.......??
Hit Buffer............??
Or
On join the 0.1 Club......??

And what positives are you taking forward.......??
		
Click to expand...

If you're learning to play the piano do you give up if you can't play Beethoven's 5th after one lesson?

Why does everything always have to deliver instant results to be of any use?

Some of the posts on this thread are mind-boggling beyond comprehension...


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## PhilTheFragger (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*off course as been mentioned - all the new people playing the game being giving very high handicaps*

Above is what I have posted - seems different to what you think I'm suggesting ?

Click to expand...

Well if you are unable to see the difference between your point and Sevs, then that is your problem

I think I explained myself quite clearly


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

JezzE said:



			If you're learning to play the piano do you give up if you can't play Beethoven's 5th after one lesson?

Why does everything always have to deliver instant results to be of any use?

Some of the posts on this thread are mind-boggling beyond comprehension...
		
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Jezz is John working with the ET or with any pros alongside Dennis Pugh ? 

What is the connection with Pugh ?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Well if you are unable to see the difference between your point and Sevs, then that is your problem

I think I explained myself quite clearly
		
Click to expand...


My point was the same as Sevs and certainly wasn't what you were suggesting - but I can't help it if you read into something differently.


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## moogie (May 4, 2014)

JezzE said:



			If you're learning to play the piano do you give up if you can't play Beethoven's 5th after one lesson?

Why does everything always have to deliver instant results to be of any use?

Some of the posts on this thread are mind-boggling beyond comprehension...
		
Click to expand...

Jezz
You have me all wrong

I actually know Dave.......so my interest has very little to do with this new 'mental' side of the game
TBH I couldnt give a stuff about it........!!!
Only posted on this thread as Dave had stated he was off out for a comp
Its more out of interest if his scoring is improving as this is his 1st real season as a member and has set big targets for himself,  and naturally hope he gets somewhere near achieving this


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## 3565 (May 4, 2014)

JezzE said:



			If you're learning to play the piano do you give up if you can't play Beethoven's 5th after one lesson?

Why does everything always have to deliver instant results to be of any use?

Some of the posts on this thread are mind-boggling beyond comprehension...
		
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Some people are talented that they can get it after just one lesson. Some are so talented that they don't need lessons at all, ever!!!


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## c1973 (May 4, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Well if you are unable to see the difference between your point and Sevs, then that is your problem

I think I explained myself quite clearly
		
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Tbf to Phil, I think they both made the same point. Adding on the bit  'in previous years' slightly altered what was being said.


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## JezzE (May 4, 2014)

moogie said:



			Jezz
You have me all wrong

I actually know Dave.......so my interest has very little to do with this new 'mental' side of the game
TBH I couldnt give a stuff about it........!!!
Only posted on this thread as Dave had stated he was off out for a comp
Its more out of interest if his scoring is improving as this is his 1st real season as a member and has set big targets for himself,  and naturally hope he gets somewhere near achieving this
		
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Fair enough - must be reading too much into your question marks! To be honest, it wasn't aimed specifically at you but rather a whole raft of posts on here that seem to imply that if 'new thinking' doesn't deliver results first time out it must be a load of bunkum


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## JezzE (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jezz is John working with the ET or with any pros alongside Dennis Pugh ? 

What is the connection with Pugh ?
		
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Not working with any tour pros that I know of - the Dennis Pugh link is via The Wisley I think...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

JezzE said:



			Not working with any tour pros that I know of - the Dennis Pugh link is via The Wisley I think...
		
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Do you know if Dennis uses it with any of his pros ?


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## JezzE (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you know if Dennis uses it with any of his pros ?
		
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That I don't know, but my hunch would be that he probably does even if only indirectly, otherwise he wouldn't be putting his name to it as well...


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

JezzE said:



			That I don't know, but my hunch would be that he probably does even if only indirectly, otherwise he wouldn't be putting his name to it as well...
		
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Ok cheers :thup:


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## User20205 (May 4, 2014)

What bothers me in all of this, is that valid question on clarification gets lost between the pro and the anti argument.

If you want to buy into it, but have valid questions you get tarred with the non believer brush


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## JezzE (May 4, 2014)

therod said:



			What bothers me in all of this, is that valid question on clarification gets lost between the pro and the anti argument.

If you want to buy into it, but have valid questions you get tarred with the non believer brush 

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Interesting... I suppose what intrigues me is that nobody bats an eyelid about the technical side of the game, but when it comes to the mental side they get very sceptical. Yet often they are the same people who bandy words like 'confidence', 'pressure' or 'choking' about without a second thought. Where do these things come from given that they are alien concepts to tehcnique? Your body and muscles certainly can't experience any of them independently so they must be coming from somewhere else, yet many refuse to believe that working on how you think about your game can have any bearing on how you play...


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## c1973 (May 4, 2014)

JezzE said:



			Interesting... I suppose what intrigues me is that nobody bats an eyelid about the technical side of the game, but when it comes to the mental side they get very sceptical. Yet often they are the same people who bandy words like 'confidence', 'pressure' or 'choking' about without a second thought. Where do these things come from given that they are alien concepts to tehcnique? Your body and muscles certainly can't experience any of them independently so they must be coming from somewhere else, yet many refuse to believe that working on how you think about your game can have any bearing on how you play...
		
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For what it's worth, I'm not knocking the idea of positive thinking or whatever, only the complexity some attach to achieving this. I firmly believe it is a simple case of 'forget about the last shot, think about the next' in terms of playing golf. 
For me, it really is that simple, does that make my opinion any less valid? 

All this visualizing shots in 3D etc before taking your shot imo only slows you down and therefore everyone behind you. I think it's part of the problem with slow plAy in the pro game and really don't want to see it seep into the amateur game.

I really do wonder how golfers coped in the past without 'head doctors'.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

c1973 said:



			For what it's worth, I'm not knocking the idea of positive thinking or whatever, only the complexity some attach to achieving this. I firmly believe it is a simple case of 'forget about the last shot, think about the next' in terms of playing golf. 
For me, it really is that simple, does that make my opinion any less valid? 

All this visualizing shots in 3D etc before taking your shot imo only slows you down and therefore everyone behind you. I think it's part of the problem with slow plAy in the pro game and really don't want to see it seep into the amateur game.

I really do wonder how golfers coped in the past without 'head doctors'.
		
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My feeling exactly 

Positive thinking is great - I think the acronym KISS is perfect for golf - keep it simple stupid 

Trying to analyse thinking in golf is hard as we all approach the game differently 

But reading the book appears to overthink things and just bring far too many thoughts into heads


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## fundy (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My feeling exactly 

Positive thinking is great - I think the acronym KISS is perfect for golf - keep it simple stupid 

Trying to analyse thinking in golf is hard as we all approach the game differently 

But reading the book appears to overthink things and just bring far too many thoughts into heads
		
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Phil, its clear you are fortunate enough to have a nice clear head and barely think when you play golf (yes im jealous). For those of us already stuck in the rut with overthinking it is not possible just to switch it off (its not the book creating the overthinking, its trying to address it). We get that you dont have an issue in this area, be grateful that you dont,  maybe its time you left those of us who do to it, as even you must be able to see that your comments (continually asking for proof or being sceptical or asking for which pros are on board etc etc) aren't helpful to those who are trying to apply whats in the book to improve their golf


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## Liverpoolphil (May 4, 2014)

fundy said:



			Phil, its clear you are fortunate enough to have a nice clear head and barely think when you play golf (yes im jealous). For those of us already stuck in the rut with overthinking it is not possible just to switch it off (its not the book creating the overthinking, its trying to address it). We get that you dont have an issue in this area, be grateful that you dont,  maybe its time you left those of us who do to it, as even you must be able to see that your comments (continually asking for proof or being sceptical or asking for which pros are on board etc etc) aren't helpful to those who are trying to apply whats in the book to improve their golf
		
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If my comments are effecting people's thinking on a golf course then there is a bigger problem. 

If people being sceptical is effecting anything then surely the thoughts are in others already - no one including myself is not telling you to not follow the persons methods we are just giving an opinion 

People told me I shouldn't post an opinion on the subject without reading the book - well I bought the book and reading it and giving my opinion on what I'm reading ? If my opinion was positive to the idea would it be welcome then ?


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## fundy (May 4, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If my comments are effecting people's thinking on a golf course then there is a bigger problem. 

If people being sceptical is effecting anything then surely the thoughts are in others already - no one including myself is not telling you to not follow the persons methods we are just giving an opinion 

People told me I shouldn't post an opinion on the subject without reading the book - well I bought the book and reading it and giving my opinion on what I'm reading ? If my opinion was positive to the idea would it be welcome then ?
		
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Let me make it clear, I will make up my mind solely based on my opinions of the material and my correspondence with the author that I have been grateful to have the opportunity of, not on what is posted on the forum. That said, its pretty boring to read people constantly wanting to nit pick about something (and its not just this thread, this topic or just you doing it but it is becoming endemic in the forum) and sadly that is lowering the quality of the forum and reducing the amount a lot of decent posters post

In my opinion, there is a time and a place to give an opinion and at times a lot of people want to give theirs when their really is no need whatsoever and adds nothing to the discussion that is being had but hey its a forum so they are allowed to


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## drdel (May 4, 2014)

Golf is no different, mentally, to any other human activity in that if you want to improve you must set yourself goals that are tightly defined but most important of all they must be realistically and pragmatic.

You don't need a book to tell you what that sentence already says..


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## Khamelion (May 4, 2014)

moogie said:



			So.......Howay Dave.............What did u score......??
Close to Cut......??
Play to Handicap.......??
Hit Buffer............??
Or
On join the 0.1 Club......??

And what positives are you taking forward.......??
		
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It was a 0.1 increase, third one in four since starting Saturday comps four weeks ago and without wanting to tell a story, I let myself down on three holes, two were due to duff tee shots and bad choices for the next shot, for which I will remember and change my tactic next time in the same situation, should it arise, the third was a poor bunker shot.

I was 5 over HC or 2 over buffer.

Positives were of the other 15 holes I played them well and par'd 5 of them, my driving was 90% FIR and by clubbing up I hit some long distance belters onto the green, thus not leaving them short as I had previously.

All in all although it was a 0.1 increase, my game is coming together and I'm feeling good about the rest of the season, as I know a run of HC cuts is coming, starting with next weeks comp.


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## Hobbit (May 4, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			It was a 0.1 increase, third one in four since starting Saturday comps four weeks ago and without wanting to tell a story, I let myself down on three holes, two were due to duff tee shots and bad choices for the next shot, for which I will remember and change my tactic next time in the same situation, should it arise, the third was a poor bunker shot.

I was 5 over HC or 2 over buffer.

Positives were of the other 15 holes I played them well and par'd 5 of them, my driving was 90% FIR and by clubbing up I hit some long distance belters onto the green, thus not leaving them short as I had previously.

All in all although it was a 0.1 increase, my game is coming together and I'm feeling good about the rest of the season, as I know a run of HC cuts is coming, starting with next weeks comp.
		
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Good shooting Dave.... definitely some cuts coming your way this summer!


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## need_my_wedge (May 5, 2014)

I played in two comps this weekend since the session with John on Tuesday. With regards to instant results, there is no obvious improvement. I'm not supposed to concoct stories so will state facts..... I lost the first match, I was 4 down after 9, despite playing the nine to handicap.... In the medal yesterday, I took a 0.1, was actually fairly steady all round bar a.couple of holes, smashed an OB on 8, and a lost ball on 16. I made the mistake of not playing a provisional from the tee on 16 because I saw where it came down and thought it was safe. By the time I couldn't find it, I was just too tired to walk back up the hill to the tee - schoolboy error.

On reflection after both rounds, I missed far fewer putts short, And clubbing up put me a lot closer to the pin on 3 specific holes than I might have been if I'd taken the club I thought I should based on what I think I can hit. I use a rangefinder and know pretty much what my clubs can do, however, the extra club did give me a couple of birdies over the weekend. I didn't keep notes during the rounds but on the putting front, I know for sure that I only came short on a handful.

Getting knocked out and going up back 0.1 we're not the targets, but in both rounds I felt I played very well in parts, certainly don't recall sinking into any negative thinking, unless you count the decision not to go back and play the provisional on 16.

Time to practice a bit now before the next comps.


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## tsped83 (May 5, 2014)

fundy said:



			Let me make it clear, I will make up my mind solely based on my opinions of the material and my correspondence with the author that I have been grateful to have the opportunity of, not on what is posted on the forum. That said, its pretty boring to read people constantly wanting to nit pick about something (and its not just this thread, this topic or just you doing it but it is becoming endemic in the forum) and sadly that is lowering the quality of the forum and reducing the amount a lot of decent posters post

In my opinion, there is a time and a place to give an opinion and at times a lot of people want to give theirs when their really is no need whatsoever and adds nothing to the discussion that is being had but hey its a forum so they are allowed to
		
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Spot on my man, well said.


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## User20205 (May 5, 2014)

fundy said:



			In my opinion, there is a time and a place to give an opinion and at times a lot of people want to give theirs when their really is no need whatsoever and adds nothing to the discussion that is being had but hey its a forum so they are allowed to
		
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 I appreciate what you say, it can get tiresome if the same point is laboured, and quantifiable proof is required where there is none, but surely discussion should be encouraged. I'm reading the book, and have asked a couple of question of those who went on the day

'Is the career shot point a little at odds with the club up point? I mean, if I aim for a career shot as implied, but I miss, the risk reward element of the game would mean that a score worsener would be more likely than a score improver.
The club up point seems to imply play the percentages.

Also how can I possibly turn a massive slice OB, or a missed 2 foot putt into a opportunity? The implication is that you control your reaction, so react positively. I can't think of a positive spin on the above.'

Is this dismissing or just seeking understanding??


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## PhilTheFragger (May 5, 2014)

The "career shot" is more to do with remembering the mindset and thought process that enabled a career shot to happen and bringing that to each shot.

We have all stood over a shot and thought , I like this!  Conversely we have all stood over a ball and thought the opposite. 

So the idea is to bring career shot MPA to every shot we play.

The clubbing up is more to do with practical results and was 1 of only 2 tactical tips covered on the day

In truth new golf thinking isn't going to cure a 30 yard slice, but it will help you stay positive and help recover 

Hope that helps


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## chrisd (May 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If my opinion was positive to the idea would it be welcome then ?
		
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It wouldn't make a scrap of difference!

I have read a number of golf psychology books and definitely buy into the concepts that most cover, I think that my golf is better for it, but, how can I be certain? I can't, so I happily play thinking that, like a new club, ball or lesson that it is part of the package that makes my golf better than it otherwise might be. No, it's not quantifiable but equally it's not disprovable, so, my mental approach is personal to me but I know that I will not stand over the ball and think "don't hit it into the lake" because every psychology book tells me that the brain doesn't understand the word "don't" so, for me, the lake doesn't exist as I am concentrating on the place I DO want my ball to go rather than where I DONT.

Sceptics among you will not accept the ideas of this new book and I think believers will embrace all or part of it - it's as it's ever been!


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## User20205 (May 5, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			The "career shot" is more to do with remembering the mindset and thought process that enabled a career shot to happen and bringing that to each shot.

We have all stood over a shot and thought , I like this!  Conversely we have all stood over a ball and thought the opposite. 

So the idea is to bring career shot MPA to every shot we play.

The clubbing up is more to do with practical results and was 1 of only 2 tactical tips covered on the day

In truth new golf thinking isn't going to cure a 30 yard slice, but it will help you stay positive and help recover 

Hope that helps
		
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I does shed  some light on the thought processes, thanks.

I guess it's not a book in a linear sense, but a guide to be dipped in and out of.

I'm still vexed by the reaction section. I appreciate I control my own response, but I'm struggling to turn some of the negatives into opportunities as per the chart on pg 42.


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## User20205 (May 5, 2014)

chrisd said:



			Sceptics among you will not accept the ideas of this new book and I think believers will embrace all or part of it - it's as it's ever been!
		
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Very similar that to another book Chris, one from your youth.

Those sceptics never did take to the New Testament, did they??:rofl::whoo:


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## Khamelion (May 5, 2014)

therod said:



			I guess it's not a book in a linear sense, but a guide to be dipped in and out of.
		
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Yup that's it exactly, you can read it from front to back, but the idea is that it's a reference where you go to the relevant section to find the help particular to you.

If you've done the self-assessment form, that will point you towards the "low hanging fruit" that will help you initially.

My take on the career shot and improver sections; For example your next shot is to the green, MPA is 'I'm going to hole this', you swing and hit a career shot, the ball lands and skims the hole, you've not holed it, but the shot was up there with your best, you've not left it short and you've seen the line as the ball rolled past the hole, you've now got a 1 foot tap in birdie, an improver.


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## chrisd (May 5, 2014)

therod said:



			Those sceptics never did take to the New Testament, did they??:rofl::whoo:
		
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Especially the bit with the 11th commandment - " Thou shall not write on Homers balls with a green (yuk) sharpie" !


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## TheClaw (May 5, 2014)

Currently reading through the book. So far I'm feeling the following:

I like the snooker mentality regarding how many "points are on the table" rather than trying to predict your score on the next few holes based on how things have went in the past few holes.
I like the idea of scoring each shot to enable us to think about one shot at a time. 

I don't agree with the author when he suggests that seeing the pro to fix your swing is an old method that doesn't lead to better scoring.
There is also a lot of cheesy self help jargon and acronyms that I find hard to take seriously.

For me if my swing feels good I hit better shots, this leads to confidence. When I'm swinging well I care more about my short game, this leads to better scoring. Personally, I feel that a good mentality and confidence starts with having a sound "full swing" - maybe this is because I have a good short game.

Im reading the book purely because I'm interested not because I feel I make a lot of mental errors. However, I'm always looking to learn!


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## need_my_wedge (May 5, 2014)

OK, as a follow up to my earlier post, I went out for a slow 9 holes this morning.  I put a card in my pocket with a view to marking WIMC for each shot, and S/P when going for the green. I had to contend with slow play too, playing as a single there were a number of 4 balls in front of me playing matches, so I used the time to ensure I concentrated on the ideas of MPA and not leaving it short - wasn't thinking back of the green specifically, just took an extra club on a couple of holes, and on another couple I took the club I would normally use. I shot a 42, 3 under handicap for the 9, scoring 21 points. Hole wise I had 3 pars, a birdie, 3 bogies and 2 doubles. The two doubles were undone by W's off the tee making it harder to get back in to position. I hit three C shots out there including a drive and pitch to 6 inches directly behind the hole, almost eagling it. On the S/P front, I counted all shots into the green and putts on the green - coming in with only 3 shorties and 10 past the hole. 

I didn't think about scoring or totals at all, just focused on the points available to me on the next shot. I only lapsed once of note, and that cost me the second double bogey because I wasn't paying attention. I'm not down on myself for that as I'd gotten round to the ninth before the small error. In general, I though this allowed me to play the round quite well. 

Only the third round in, but that was definitely an improvement on yesterdays medal.


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## TheClaw (May 5, 2014)

need_my_wedge said:



			OK, as a follow up to my earlier post, I went out for a slow 9 holes this morning.  I put a card in my pocket with a view to marking WIMC for each shot, and S/P when going for the green. I had to contend with slow play too, playing as a single there were a number of 4 balls in front of me playing matches, so I used the time to ensure I concentrated on the ideas of MPA and not leaving it short - wasn't thinking back of the green specifically, just took an extra club on a couple of holes, and on another couple I took the club I would normally use. I shot a 42, 3 under handicap for the 9, scoring 21 points. Hole wise I had 3 pars, a birdie, 3 bogies and 2 doubles. The two doubles were undone by W's off the tee making it harder to get back in to position. I hit three C shots out there including a drive and pitch to 6 inches directly behind the hole, almost eagling it. On the S/P front, I counted all shots into the green and putts on the green - coming in with only 3 shorties and 10 past the hole. 

I didn't think about scoring or totals at all, just focused on the points available to me on the next shot. I only lapsed once of note, and that cost me the second double bogey because I wasn't paying attention. I'm not down on myself for that as I'd gotten round to the ninth before the small error. In general, I though this allowed me to play the round quite well. 

Only the third round in, but that was definitely an improvement on yesterdays medal.
		
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Did you play yourself? Do you normally play better when your playing a practice 9 holer or in a medal?

I think that clubbing to the back of the green is a great idea...I usually do this. 

Just a question about "career" shots. If you have are faced with a difficult shot, and you have previously pulled off a similar shot, do you go for it? Or do your play safe? Does the book suggest a way to decide?


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## need_my_wedge (May 5, 2014)

TheClaw said:



			Did you play yourself? Do you normally play better when your playing a practice 9 holer or in a medal?

I think that clubbing to the back of the green is a great idea...I usually do this. 

Just a question about "career" shots. If you have are faced with a difficult shot, and you have previously pulled off a similar shot, do you go for it? Or do your play safe? Does the book suggest a way to decide?
		
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I played as a single purely as a practice round. Not always, but sometimes, medals usually come undone over a couple of holes. I wasn't looking at career shots in that view, i was counting shots that couldn't have been hit better if I'd tried, i.e. they went exactly where I tried to put them and were flushed. This aspect of shot judgement will be different for each of us, they may have been I or M for other players..... Two drives split the fairway about as far as I can hit, and one wedge in shaved the hole and finished 6 inches past, I'm happy to mark those all as C. There were a few other good shots too that could have been C on another day, but I put them as I today.


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## TheClaw (May 5, 2014)

need_my_wedge said:



			I played as a single purely as a practice round. Not always, but sometimes, medals usually come undone over a couple of holes. I wasn't looking at career shots in that view, i was counting shots that couldn't have been hit better if I'd tried, i.e. they went exactly where I tried to put them and were flushed. This aspect of shot judgement will be different for each of us, they may have been I or M for other players..... Two drives split the fairway about as far as I can hit, and one wedge in shaved the hole and finished 6 inches past, I'm happy to mark those all as C. There were a few other good shots too that could have been C on another day, but I put them as I today.
		
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Good stuff mate. Sounds like you played well.

Was just wondering about other times where we might be faced with a tricky situation. I hit a cracking big draw out of the left rough with my hybrid on Saturday which I would class as a career shot. However, I never would have attempted it if there was trouble down the right side of the hole. I was wondering if the idea of a career shot might get people to be too hopeful/positive.


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## Wayman (May 5, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			It was a 0.1 increase, third one in four since starting Saturday comps four weeks ago and without wanting to tell a story, I let myself down on three holes, two were due to duff tee shots and bad choices for the next shot, for which I will remember and change my tactic next time in the same situation, should it arise, the third was a poor bunker shot.

I was 5 over HC or 2 over buffer.

Positives were of the other 15 holes I played them well and par'd 5 of them, my driving was 90% FIR and by clubbing up I hit some long distance belters onto the green, thus not leaving them short as I had previously.

All in all although it was a 0.1 increase, my game is coming together and I'm feeling good about the rest of the season, as I know a run of HC cuts is coming, starting with next weeks comp.
		
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Dave how did I do have you down as a 96 
Which is 11 over handicap

Some computer mistake ?????

Mate honestly 9 handicap at end of year is massive push

I played in scratch comp yesterday which is a eye opener honest

Don't set big things what is nearly impossible
I've been around 5 6 for 3 year it's hard believe me


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## HomerJSimpson (May 5, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh and Homer - are you claiming some royalties from his books - it appears he is using paragraphs from your blog ? Is he giving you writing credits for that ?
		
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Cheap jibe without having access to the facts. I asked permission on Tuesday. Do one smartarse

Used it for the first time in the stableford on Saturday. Came 5th and hit the buffer so definitely early signs of improvement. 5 x 3 putts killed the score and even if I have turned three of those into two putts would have been second. Played with Hawkeye in a pairs event today. We were great for 16 holes and I think he can see the difference in my approach and clarity.

I have *no doubt* a few will point to the three putts and say something glib like he makes no difference if you can't get it in the hole. My reply would be I got on some of the greens I've missed regularly, and today in particular used my MPA to produce a career shot at 14 to hit the green going between and under two big tress from 200 yards. My short game is more positive and *despite* the three putts my approach to putting has improved too. 

Funny how the loudest voices are those who have absolutely no interest in using it. Good for the post count as you would say LP


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cheap jibe without having access to the facts. I asked permission on Tuesday. Do one smartarse
		
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Shouldn't you then put on your blog that they are not your words but the words of someone else ( as you ask for countless retweets ) - surely the people that read the blog will need to know who has actually said the words you type ?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 5, 2014)

What does it matter to you what I discussed with him? Has nothing to do with this thread


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## PhilTheFragger (May 5, 2014)

Homer is right, lets keep this thread on track please

Thanks


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## moogie (May 5, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			It was a 0.1 increase, third one in four since starting Saturday comps four weeks ago and without wanting to tell a story, I let myself down on three holes, two were due to duff tee shots and bad choices for the next shot, for which I will remember and change my tactic next time in the same situation, should it arise, the third was a poor bunker shot.

*I was 5 over HC or 2 over buffer.*

Positives were of the other 15 holes I played them well and par'd 5 of them, my driving was 90% FIR and by clubbing up I hit some long distance belters onto the green, thus not leaving them short as I had previously.

All in all although it was a 0.1 increase, my game is coming together and I'm feeling good about the rest of the season, as I know a run of HC cuts is coming, starting with next weeks comp.
		
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Seen scorecard on Howdidido

Has u down for Gross 96,  Par 68,  Thats 28 Over,  and 11 Over Handicap...........Not 5


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## TheClaw (May 5, 2014)

moogie said:



			Seen scorecard on Howdidido

Has u down for Gross 96,  Par 68,  Thats 28 Over,  and 11 Over Handicap...........Not 5
		
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Maybe forgetting about 6 bad shots is a way of thinking positively?


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## Khamelion (May 5, 2014)

moogie said:



			Seen scorecard on Howdidido

Has u down for Gross 96,  Par 68,  Thats 28 Over,  and 11 Over Handicap...........Not 5
		
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Yes I know I shot a 96, Yes I know that's 11 over HC, but for the purposes of calculating HC, it's a 5, the two holes that I played badly  was an 11 and 7 on par 4's, both results were down to me not playing sensibly and going for the career shot. I should have gone for an improver, but didn't and ended up with worsener's in both cases.

I'm taking the positives out of my round as I wrote.

Saturday is gone, that round is over and done with, time for me to move on to the next and take with me the positives from Saturday gone and use them in Saturday future.


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## Siren (May 5, 2014)

Thank for you OP mate it really helped me today.


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## TheClaw (May 5, 2014)

TheClaw said:



			Good stuff mate. Sounds like you played well.

Was just wondering about other times where we might be faced with a tricky situation. I hit a cracking big draw out of the left rough with my hybrid on Saturday which I would class as a career shot. However, I never would have attempted it if there was trouble down the right side of the hole.* I was wondering if the idea of a career shot might get people to be too hopeful/positive*.
		
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Khamelion said:



			Yes I know I shot a 96, Yes I know that's 11 over HC, but for the purposes of calculating HC, it's a 5, the two holes that I played badly  was an 11 and 7 on par 4's, *both results were down to me not playing sensibly and going for the career shot. I should have gone for an improver, but didn't and ended up with worsener's in both cases.*

I'm taking the positives out of my round as I wrote.

Saturday is gone, that round is over and done with, time for me to move on to the next and take with me the positives from Saturday gone and use them in Saturday future.
		
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I rest my case


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## Hobbit (May 5, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Yes I know I shot a 96, Yes I know that's 11 over HC, but for the purposes of calculating HC, it's a 5, the two holes that I played badly  was an 11 and 7 on par 4's, both results were down to me not playing sensibly and going for the career shot. I should have gone for an improver, but didn't and ended up with worsener's in both cases.

I'm taking the positives out of my round as I wrote.

Saturday is gone, that round is over and done with, time for me to move on to the next and take with me the positives from Saturday gone and use them in Saturday future.
		
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Stick at it Dave. Changing your mindset, especially as the norm is to regress when the pressure is on, isn't easy.


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## Khamelion (May 5, 2014)

TheClaw said:



			I rest my case 

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I chose the word career as it was in context with this post, I could've used hero shot or any other analogy you care to think of. Ultimately it was just plain stupidity on my behalf that got me deeper into trouble.

The idea of a career shot is not something you plan to do before you take the shot, it is the result afterwards. Every shot you take has the potential to be a career shot, your par 3 tee shot that nets you a hole in one, or your 3 metal flushed perfectly that gets you a eagle on the long par 4.

You set out in MPA and you hit your ball towards the hole, that shot could be any of the 4 C, I, M or W.


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## need_my_wedge (May 5, 2014)

TheClaw said:



			Good stuff mate. Sounds like you played well.
 I was wondering if the idea of a career shot might get people to be too hopeful/positive.
		
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I don't know about, but I don't rate the shot until after I've hit it, I.e. I don't stand over the ball thinking I'm going to hit a career shot, I'm just thinking about swinging easy with the right club and hitting my target.

I went back out this afternoon and played the same nine again, pulling in 22 points this time. There were a few more shorties on the card this round, possibly because of the wind, but putt better than this morning.


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## moogie (May 5, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Yes I know I shot a 96, Yes I know that's 11 over HC, *but for the purposes of calculating HC, it's a 5, *  the two holes that I played badly  *was an 11 and 7 on par 4's,*   both results were down to me not playing sensibly and going for the career shot. I should have gone for an improver, but didn't and ended up with worsener's in both cases.
		
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Dave
I still DON'T understand how you make an 11 Over Handicap into a 5 Over Handicap......??
Im thinking you have Tried to use Stab Adj ,  but you have applied Incorrectly

Besides this
I still Don't get why you couldnt just say the ACTUAL score......
Or
Does this New Positive 'spin' not allow you to speak of actual scores recorded on scorecards....??

Would that be 'too negative'........?? :mmm:


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## PhilTheFragger (May 5, 2014)

Think we need to clarify the career shot aspect.

The whole purpose of MPA is to put you in the right frame of mind to potentially hit a career shot, 
When you hit one, the idea is to remember everything about it and then replicate that mental image again and again and to apply that to every shot. 

You need to be positive, and realistic . With the best positive thinking in the universe, I not going to drive 350 yards
But 230 down the middle is an improver for me

There is no  par 5's on my course that I cannot get to the green in 3 shots
There are no par 4's on my course that I cannot get to the green in 2 or 3 with a shot.
All the par 3 greens are in range

That's MPA. 
It's a tool to add to your armoury along with common sense


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cheap jibe without having access to the facts. I asked permission on Tuesday. Do one smartarse

Used it for the first time in the stableford on Saturday. Came 5th and hit the buffer so definitely early signs of improvement. 5 x 3 putts killed the score and even if I have turned three of those into two putts would have been second. Played with Hawkeye in a pairs event today. We were great for 16 holes and I think he can see the difference in my approach and clarity.

I have *no doubt* a few will point to the three putts and say something glib like he makes no difference if you can't get it in the hole. My reply would be I got on some of the greens I've missed regularly, and today in particular used my MPA to produce a career shot at 14 to hit the green going between and under two big tress from 200 yards. My short game is more positive and *despite* the three putts my approach to putting has improved too. 

Funny how the loudest voices are those who have absolutely no interest in using it. Good for the post count as you would say LP
		
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5th in your division ?

And rather ironic that the person with 34,000 posts is going on about post counts ?!

I am reading the book currently and still searching for the "new way"

So far is just acronyms and telling someone to feel positive. 

If you start to produce consistent results to actually show improvement then maybe ears would prick up a little but every time it's one thing that stops the good round. 

Think positive = play better golf . I always think positive - is there any need for acronyms and is there anything new so far ?


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## Liverpoolphil (May 5, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Yes I know I shot a 96, Yes I know that's 11 over HC, but for the purposes of calculating HC, it's a 5, the two holes that I played badly  was an 11 and 7 on par 4's, both results were down to me not playing sensibly and going for the career shot. I should have gone for an improver, but didn't and ended up with worsener's in both cases.

I'm taking the positives out of my round as I wrote.

Saturday is gone, that round is over and done with, time for me to move on to the next and take with me the positives from Saturday gone and use them in Saturday future.
		
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Confused with the 5 over for HC purposes ? 

What do you mean ?


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## PhilTheFragger (May 5, 2014)

moogie said:



			Dave
I still DON'T understand how you make an 11 Over Handicap into a 5 Over Handicap......??
Im thinking you have Tried to use Stab Adj ,  but you have applied Incorrectly

Besides this
I still Don't get why you couldnt just say the ACTUAL score......
Or
Does this New Positive 'spin' not allow you to speak of actual scores recorded on scorecards....??

Would that be 'too negative'........?? :mmm:
		
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For handicap purposes each hole is limited to a net double bogey
He took 11 on a par 4,assuming he had a shot the handicap score is based on 7.

It's not rocket science, he had another bad hole  as well

But he has positives to take away and work on


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## moogie (May 5, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			For handicap purposes each hole is limited to a net double bogey
*YES I KNOW THAT*

He took 11 on a par 4,assuming he had a shot the handicap score is based on 7.
*YES I KNOW THAT TOO*

It's not rocket science, *TRUE* he had another bad hole  as well *YEP*

But he has positives to take away and work on  *AND I WISH HIM GOOD LUCK WITH THAT*

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I just believe Dave has not rounded down correctly,  and mis-counted
The 11 a 7......not 6
The 7 a 7.......not 6

*AFTER ALL,  ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE PHIL........!!!!!!!!!*


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## Hacker Khan (May 6, 2014)

Well my first round after the day resulted in me shooting a gross 76 despite the fact I am a 26 handicapper.  Satisfied now you pedantic doubters who are desperate to prove that it does not work!!!!!

OK, slight exaggeration.  My aim is to consistently shot in the 90s and then start to shoot in the 80s later on in the summer. And despite starting with 2 8s (ouch, damn you thinned chips and lost balls) I came home in 43 and shot in the mid 90s.  Actually having a mare of a start was a good test as I just played on my own, and normally when I do that and have a mare of a hole at the start I kind of go from trying to shoot a decent score to trying to have some fun, and give up a bit.  This was specifically highlighted by John as something I could and should change, so I used the technique of playing every hole as if it is matchplay and thought about the number of stableford points 'still on the table'.

And I felt this really helped me as I kept on trying to shoot a good score on holes.  The other main difference I noticed was my confidence from near the green.  Usually I think that it would be good if I could get on the green and get away with 2 puts. Yesterday I was focussing more on getting an up and down as minimum.  And there were definitely fewer 3 puts, plus I did get up and down a couple of times.

Yes I am not arguing that I could have probably got a lot of what I did from reading other books if I had the time to read them all, and as John has stated I will not start doing things on the course that I can't do on the range so I am not magically going to be able to fade or draw perfect shots at will. But in my case I needed the impetus to chance something without having to read lots of pages, and I wanted some easy to implement practical actions for the specific 'mental areas' I needed to target.  Which is what the book has given me.


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## HomerJSimpson (May 6, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Well my first round after the day resulted in me shooting a gross 76 despite the fact I am a 26 handicapper.  Satisfied now you pedantic doubters who are desperate to prove that it does not work!!!!!

OK, slight exaggeration.  My aim is to consistently shot in the 90s and then start to shoot in the 80s later on in the summer. And despite starting with 2 8s (ouch, damn you thinned chips and lost balls) I came home in 43 and shot in the mid 90s.  Actually having a mare of a start was a good test as I just played on my own, and normally when I do that and have a mare of a hole at the start I kind of go from trying to shoot a decent score to trying to have some fun, and give up a bit.  This was specifically highlighted by John as something I could and should change, so I used the technique of playing every hole as if it is matchplay and thought about the number of stableford points 'still on the table'.

And I felt this really helped me as I kept on trying to shoot a good score on holes.  The other main difference I noticed was my confidence from near the green.  Usually I think that it would be good if I could get on the green and get away with 2 puts. Yesterday I was focussing more on getting an up and down as minimum.  And there were definitely fewer 3 puts, plus I did get up and down a couple of times.

Yes I am not arguing that I could have probably got a lot of what I did from reading other books if I had the time to read them all, and as John has stated I will not start doing things on the course that I can't do on the range so I am not magically going to be able to fade or draw perfect shots at will. But in my case I needed the impetus to chance something without having to read lots of pages, and I wanted some easy to implement practical actions for the specific 'mental areas' I needed to target.  Which is what the book has given me.     

Click to expand...

Some good stuff there and bounced back well from the bad start. I'm with you. It does work and it helped me. I played well on Saturday and was in a MPA all the way despite 5 x 3 putts which ultimately killed my chance of winning. Tee to green I was pretty good and starting to use the RAF as well. It can't all be done in one hit but slowly, bit by bit, the techniques are sinking in. Had a pairs event with Hawkeye yesterday. Think he saw for himself how much more positive I was even though I was mumbling to myself like a deranged soul. Every time I had a bad hole (and he baled me out) I bounced back. Career shot at 14 (although I then 3 putted - AGAIN) but did well depsite not feeling totally at one with my swing.

There are always going to be knockers on here. I'm sure you, I and the others that were there and many of those who get the book and use it will get something positive from it. Well played again. No prizes for guessing what I'm working on this week!


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## bluewolf (May 6, 2014)

Are there any tips in the book on how to maintain composure?

I've just learned that my PP in tomorrows medal has the surname "Sass". I won't say his first name, but it doesn't really matter as it works with any first name... Inside my grown up mind, there is the mind of a small child and I just know that I'm going to struggle to keep my composure every time I say his name...

Quite pathetic on my part really...


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## Khamelion (May 6, 2014)

bluewolf said:



			Are there any tips in the book on how to maintain composure?

I've just learned that my PP in tomorrows medal has the surname "Sass". I won't say his first name, but it doesn't really matter as it works with any first name... Inside my grown up mind, there is the mind of a small child and I just know that I'm going to struggle to keep my composure every time I say his name...

Quite pathetic on my part really...

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Took me a moment to work that one out , the same inner child has me giggling away as I type.

Good Luck Blue :rofl:, just keep thinking positive and imagine his first name is Kick and I'm sure you will.


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## jonny1409 (May 6, 2014)

That really was a great read - having had various problems with chipping and driving over the years, the need for MPA resonates with me a lot.

Thanks.


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## 3565 (May 6, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Cheap jibe without having access to the facts. I asked permission on Tuesday.* Do one smartarse
*
Used it for the first time in the stableford on Saturday. Came 5th and hit the buffer so definitely early signs of improvement. 5 x 3 putts killed the score and even if I have turned three of those into two putts would have been second. Played with Hawkeye in a pairs event today. We were great for 16 holes and I think he can see the difference in my approach and clarity.

I have *no doubt* a few will point to the three putts and say something glib like he makes no difference if you can't get it in the hole. My reply would be I got on some of the greens I've missed regularly, and today in particular used my MPA to produce a career shot at 14 to hit the green going between and under two big tress from 200 yards. My short game is more positive and *despite* the three putts my approach to putting has improved too. 

Funny how the loudest voices are those who have absolutely no interest in using it. Good for the post count as you would say LP
		
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:rofl:


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## 3565 (May 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			5th in your division ?

And rather ironic that the person with 34,000 posts is going on about post counts ?!

I am reading the book currently and still searching for the "new way"

So far is just acronyms and telling someone to feel positive. 

If you start to produce consistent results to actually show improvement then maybe ears would prick up a little but every time it's one thing that stops the good round. 

Think positive = play better golf .* I always think positive -* is there any need for acronyms and is there anything new so far ?
		
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How about stop searching for the chinks in the book, and let's hear how YOU go about on the golf course with your POSITIVE thinking, considering you think there is nothing new in the book?


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## Khamelion (May 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			5th in your division ?

And rather ironic that the person with 34,000 posts is going on about post counts ?!

I am reading the book currently and still searching for the "new way"

So far is just acronyms and telling someone to feel positive. 

If you start to produce consistent results to actually show improvement then maybe ears would prick up a little but every time it's one thing that stops the good round. 

Think positive = play better golf . I always think positive - is there any need for acronyms and is there anything new so far ?
		
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Just curious Liverpoolphil, have you completed the self-assessment form? We had a couple 5 HC's at the grove and their thinking HC was higher than their playing HC, so have you checked to see what yours would be? Would you share you thinking HC with us?


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## c1973 (May 6, 2014)

Anyone heard of Edward De Bono and his six thinking hats? I'm sure you have. Well, think of the 'doubters', 'naysayers' and 'smartarses'  along the lines of 'Black Hat' thinkers,Merely pointing out the flaws in order that those who are so eager to charge on are aware of them and consider them. 
In actual fact they/we could be helping those people using the book by making them think a wee bit more and possibly sorting the wheat from the chaff. No? 

The 'Black Hat' thinkers are usually considered to be the most important in these situations btw.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Just curious Liverpoolphil, have you completed the self-assessment form? We had a couple 5 HC's at the grove and their thinking HC was higher than their playing HC, so have you checked to see what yours would be? Would you share you thinking HC with us?
		
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Will do it when I get home :thup:


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## CheltenhamHacker (May 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Will do it when I get home :thup:
		
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Having read the thread, would you consider trying this? I know you want to see others proof, but for someone who is a sceptic (self admitted?) about these things, I think it would be really interested to see you give your all to this for a few months, and see if you get the benefits the others are claiming. I realise it may not be what you want, but it does seem like the only proof you would accept! (Not a dig, there are many sceptical people about a lot of things, that want personal proof that they work)

I think that would be the biggest test of this! It would require really attempting it though for a while, which probably wouldn't suit the way you play galf.


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## 3565 (May 6, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Having read the thread, would you consider trying this? I know you want to see others proof, but for someone who is a sceptic (self admitted?) about these things, I think it would be really interested to see you give your all to this for a few months, and see if you get the benefits the others are claiming. I realise it may not be what you want, but it does seem like the only proof you would accept! (Not a dig, there are many sceptical people about a lot of things, that want personal proof that they work)

I think that would be the biggest test of this! It would require really attempting it though for a while, which probably wouldn't suit the way you play galf.
		
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Totally agree. Instead of getting others to post results, do it yourself, or at least try! If you don't try you don't know!


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## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Just curious Liverpoolphil, have you completed the self-assessment form? We had a couple 5 HC's at the grove and their thinking HC was higher than their playing HC, so have you checked to see what yours would be? Would you share you thinking HC with us?
		
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My points total was 22 which gave me a thinking HC of 3 :thup:

Get rid of slow play and it would be less


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## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Having read the thread, would you consider trying this? I know you want to see others proof, but for someone who is a sceptic (self admitted?) about these things, I think it would be really interested to see you give your all to this for a few months, and see if you get the benefits the others are claiming. I realise it may not be what you want, but it does seem like the only proof you would accept! (Not a dig, there are many sceptical people about a lot of things, that want personal proof that they work)

I think that would be the biggest test of this! It would require really attempting it though for a while, which probably wouldn't suit the way you play galf.
		
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Try what ? The methods in the book ? 

If there is something that I stumble upon in the book that I believe might have a change then I will give it a go but so far there is nothing that I can see that makes me want to try anymore methods - all appears to be putting more clutter and acronyms into people's heads.


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## Khamelion (May 6, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			My points total was 22 which gave me a thinking HC of 3 :thup:

Get rid of slow play and it would be less 

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Fair play, you're pretty much squared away.


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## Liverpoolphil (May 6, 2014)

Khamelion said:



			Fair play, you're pretty much squared away.
		
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Being in the forces I think have had to learn to think positive and treat golf and all sports as enjoyment and not to be taken seriously


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## 3565 (May 7, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Being in the forces I think have had to learn to think positive and treat golf and all sports as enjoyment and not to be taken seriously
		
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Begs the question, if you don't take sport seriously (your words) and for the enjoyment, why are you seeking proof and results of players endeavours on this forum to improve? You keep banging on about enjoyment and fun yet dish it to others for trying something that may improve their game? I don't know about the others on here but I just don't get it?


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## Hacker Khan (May 19, 2014)

Slight update on my progress.

As mentioned in another thread I shot possibly my best round ever, at least it was up there, at the weekend.  Played a bounce game with a mate who beat me about 8 and 7 the last time we played, and I've not been within a gross 6 shots of him for many a year.

Before the NGT day my mindset was if I break 100 I am happy, with my aim being to shoot in the 90s regularly and occasionally in the 80s. And as Homer, Saint and Fragger will probably confirm, there may be a glimmer of potential there, but I play to around 24. And I was certainly over 100 at The Grove 

But recently there have been some real signs of improvement.  And armed with some NGT techniques focussing on the mental areas I most struggle with, I went into the round with a much more positive and more competitive mind set.  Yes it was a fun experience but I wanted to win, as opposed to my old thinking of mostly expecting to have a great day in the sun, but would probably lose. 

I started off well, by the 7th I was only 3 or 4 over par.  Then had a mare on the 8th (a 9) and then a 6 on the 9th (a short par 3) and from being 3 shots to the better I was suddenly 4 behind.

Normally at that stage I'd go into 'fun' mode and get frustrated that I'd blown a potential great round.  But I did not, I stayed competitive, put the mare holes behind me straight away and ended up only 3 over for the back 9, finishing 4 shots better than my PP.

My mate commented that my putting had improved lots, and I have really noticed this myself as when I'm near the green I've gone from an attitude of _'I can get it on and then hopefully 2 put_' to '_This is going in'.  _And this really has made a difference, I had a few one puts and only one 3 put, which is a massive improvement for me.

Ended up with 10 pars and 6 bogeys (unheard of for me) and 47 points.

I'm not claiming that this could not of happened without the NGT techniques I was using, but I believe that it was a huge contributory factor in it and the NGT has really helped me with the specific areas I was struggling with.


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## vkurup (May 19, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Slight update on my progress.

As mentioned in another thread I shot possibly my best round ever, at least it was up there, at the weekend.  Played a bounce game with a mate who beat me about 8 and 7 the last time we played, and I've not been within a gross 6 shots of him for many a year.

Before the NGT day my mindset was if I break 100 I am happy, with my aim being to shoot in the 90s regularly and occasionally in the 80s. And as Homer, Saint and Fragger will probably confirm, there may be a glimmer of potential there, but I play to around 24. And I was certainly over 100 at The Grove 

But recently there have been some real signs of improvement.  And armed with some NGT techniques focussing on the mental areas I most struggle with, I went into the round with a much more positive and more competitive mind set.  Yes it was a fun experience but I wanted to win, as opposed to my old thinking of mostly expecting to have a great day in the sun, but would probably lose. 

I started off well, by the 7th I was only 3 or 4 over par.  Then had a mare on the 8th (a 9) and then a 6 on the 9th (a short par 3) and from being 3 shots to the better I was suddenly 4 behind.

Normally at that stage I'd go into 'fun' mode and get frustrated that I'd blown a potential great round.  But I did not, I stayed competitive, put the mare holes behind me straight away and ended up only 3 over for the back 9, finishing 4 shots better than my PP.

My mate commented that my putting had improved lots, and I have really noticed this myself as when I'm near the green I've gone from an attitude of _'I can get it on and then hopefully 2 put_' to '_This is going in'.  _And this really has made a difference, I had a few one puts and only one 3 put, which is a massive improvement for me.

Ended up with 10 pars and 6 bogeys (unheard of for me) and 47 points.

I'm not claiming that this could not of happened without the NGT techniques I was using, but I believe that it was a huge contributory factor in it and the NGT has really helped me with the specific areas I was struggling with.
		
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Well done mate.. that is a cigar score.

I have similar issues.. I will have a great few holes, then blow a couple and switch to 'fun mode'.  I need to stay competitive.  My problem with being competitive is that I will 'try too hard' and suddenly I will start slicing my drives as I try to murder the ball into stratosphere..


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## HomerJSimpson (May 19, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Slight update on my progress.

As mentioned in another thread I shot possibly my best round ever, at least it was up there, at the weekend.  Played a bounce game with a mate who beat me about 8 and 7 the last time we played, and I've not been within a gross 6 shots of him for many a year.

Before the NGT day my mindset was if I break 100 I am happy, with my aim being to shoot in the 90s regularly and occasionally in the 80s. And as Homer, Saint and Fragger will probably confirm, there may be a glimmer of potential there, but I play to around 24. And I was certainly over 100 at The Grove 

But recently there have been some real signs of improvement.  And armed with some NGT techniques focussing on the mental areas I most struggle with, I went into the round with a much more positive and more competitive mind set.  Yes it was a fun experience but I wanted to win, as opposed to my old thinking of mostly expecting to have a great day in the sun, but would probably lose. 

I started off well, by the 7th I was only 3 or 4 over par.  Then had a mare on the 8th (a 9) and then a 6 on the 9th (a short par 3) and from being 3 shots to the better I was suddenly 4 behind.

Normally at that stage I'd go into 'fun' mode and get frustrated that I'd blown a potential great round.  But I did not, I stayed competitive, put the mare holes behind me straight away and ended up only 3 over for the back 9, finishing 4 shots better than my PP.

My mate commented that my putting had improved lots, and I have really noticed this myself as when I'm near the green I've gone from an attitude of _'I can get it on and then hopefully 2 put_' to '_This is going in'.  _And this really has made a difference, I had a few one puts and only one 3 put, which is a massive improvement for me.

Ended up with 10 pars and 6 bogeys (unheard of for me) and 47 points.

I'm not claiming that this could not of happened without the NGT techniques I was using, but I believe that it was a huge contributory factor in it and the NGT has really helped me with the specific areas I was struggling with.
		
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Well done mate. Without question there was a good golfer trying to get out at The Grove and I'm glad hes broekn free. From a personal perspective I'm really seeing the benefits. Shot 39 points on Saturday BUT hit my first tee shot wide right and lost a ball with my second drive of the day into a water hazard. In the past I would have got down on myself (downward spiral) but made a six after a penalty drop on the par five and then bombed a drive down three. Had my only bad hole on 17 and didn't score but bounced back to finish with a birdie up the last. 

When I use the techniques, I don't worry about anything technical and definitely have more freedom to swing. I played with a mate at Epsom yesterday and played front nine +3 gross. As soon as I got ahead of myself (developing a story) I started thinking about what I needed to do rather than let it happen to me. RAF and MPA forgotten and frittered some annoying shots away. Finished on 78 (+9 gross) so well under handicap but a great score rather than a good one gone.

It is taking some time to get the techniques to feel comfy in my mind especially RAF but when it works I am scoring well. I don't use everything in the ebook as its all too much to take in at the moment but the bits I've picked are working for me. Very happy with my play at the weekend and the way I thought my way round.

Keep going Hacker. There is much more to come from you and I think you'll be hitting the 80's soon with regularity. Even when it isn't going so well I'm sure the techniques are going to help a bad day be that bit better.


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## PhilTheFragger (May 19, 2014)

Played against Imurg this afternoon, nice and warm, slight breeze ,

Ive been working on my concentration, trying to visualize the type of shot, focusing on getting the feel before each shot right and trusting the execution of that shot and it seems to be paying off, apart from a couple of lapses that crept in.

Basically I scored 37 points, round of 89 (Imurg scored 29  round of 83) Tee Hee.

But that doesnt tell the whole story

I had 2 blobs, 5 pars, 1 birdie, 2 of the pars were on SI 1 & 2 so thats 3 x 4 pointers
6 net pars, 31 putts, 54% FIR

Had 3 stand out career shots, plenty of improvers and a marked decrease in the number of worseners 
also improved was the number of shorties

So I know I am on the verge of a very decent score, just a bit more work to do to stop these lacks of concentration creeping in.

Finding New Golf Thinking really useful


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