# Top 'what a load of tosh' tips



## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2012)

Might also solve the 'looking for an argument' guys too...

My 2 favourites...apart from the USPGA ball flight laws (done to death already)

1. Keep your head still.  (Excludes putting)

2. The coil builds up energy

Yours?


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## rosecott (Feb 8, 2012)

Golf is a very simple game - get the clubhead through the ball in the direction you want it to go.


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## JustOne (Feb 8, 2012)

1) Anything Faldo ever said.. or says in the future.

2) Roll the wrists like a tennis shot

3) Swing between the gate posts


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## patricks148 (Feb 8, 2012)

for me its people who don't give you a clue what handicap they are off or what quilfys them to be giving out advice


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## BeachGolfer (Feb 8, 2012)

Tee it low to keep it low

4.6


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## JustOne (Feb 8, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			for me its people who don't give you a clue what handicap they are off or what quilfys them to be giving out advice

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Is that why you play off 8.8 and rising? So knowing my h/cap will make you a better player? That's VERY cool.


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## connor (Feb 8, 2012)

didnt realise a qualification was needed to give advice.  Advice can be given but whether it is taken is a different matter


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## timchump (Feb 8, 2012)

patricks148 said:



			for me its people who don't give you a clue what handicap they are off or what quilfys them to be giving out advice

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agree i just like to know who i'm talking to

out of interest 

is narin or tain your home course for your handicap ?


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## Slime (Feb 8, 2012)

Keep your head down.


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## richart (Feb 8, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			1. Keep your head still.  (Excludes putting)
		
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Strange some of the top Pros do that, and it seem to work for them.:mmm: Keep your head down is the one to avoid, as it is difficult to swing when looking at your knee caps.


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## richart (Feb 8, 2012)

Slime said:



			Keep your head down.
		
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Hey don't type over me.:angry:


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## AxelBenito (Feb 8, 2012)

"You don't want to go in those trees".

Well I guess that isn't a bad tip, but too late saying it when the ball is mid air & drawing left!


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## JustOne (Feb 8, 2012)

richart said:



			Strange some of the top Pros do that, and it seem to work for them.:mmm: Keep your head down is the one to avoid, as it is difficult to swing when looking at your knee caps.
		
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Your head stays beautifully still Rich... want me to upload it to Youtube for you?

It doesn't matter if your head moves a little, however, most people who constantly tell their partner that their head came up are usually wrong.


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## richart (Feb 8, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Your head stays beautifully still Rich... want me to upload it to Youtube for you?

It doesn't matter if your head moves a little, however, most people who constantly tell their partner that their head came up are usually wrong.
		
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No thanks James.

Interesting on the US golf thay have been showing a lot of swings in slow motion, and some of the younger players have incredibly still heads until well after they have hit the ball. Same in tennis, watch Federer hit a forehand and his head is absolutely still as he hits the ball. Just think a lot of amateurs make the game harder with excessive head movement, and haven't got the hand eye co-ordination to correct it in their swing.

Doesn't mean I can do it myself.


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## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2012)

Keeping the head *stil*l, which includes keeping it down of course as that;s the way you set up is a disaster! To prove my point, just try setting up with head either leaning against a wall or a door jamb. Now try and 'swing' without moving your head!

Keeping your head *under control* is a good thing however. Just check out Natalie Gulbis's or Paula Creamer's head drop or David Duval's or Annika Sorenstam's head turns.

However, the *swing thought *of a *passive* head - or even mine of topspin down the line tennis shout - can often be a good thing.


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## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2012)

connor said:



			didnt realise a qualification was needed to give advice.
		
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Difference is in 1 case you can talk qualified c**p and are a qualified ****.
In the other you are an unqualifed c**p and are an unqualified ****!


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## JustOne (Feb 8, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Difference is in 1 case you can talk qualified c**p and are a qualified ****.
In the other you are an unqualifed c**p and are an unqualified ****!
		
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Calm down dear...... NURSE!!!!.................... Foxy has escaped again!!!


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## Dave B (Feb 8, 2012)

Good tip

Maintain your balance thoughout the swing :fore:

Tosh tip.

Watch the water


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## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Calm down dear...... NURSE!!!!.................... Foxy has escaped again!!! 

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Pots and Kettles leap to mind. Where's the Horlicks (thread)!


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## SocketRocket (Feb 9, 2012)

Maintaining your spine angle is important.  If your head goes up and down then generally the rest of your body will follow, which is not good.


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Foxholer said:




Pots and Kettles leap to mind.
		
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Oi! I'm just tryin' to put a big smiley smile on your face :thup:


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Good advice - look at the ball

Bad advice - chin up


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Keeping the head *stil*l, which includes keeping it down of course as that;s the way you set up is a disaster! To prove my point, just try setting up with head either leaning against a wall or a door jamb. Now try and 'swing' without moving your head!

Keeping your head *under control* is a good thing however. Just check out Natalie Gulbis's or Paula Creamer's head drop or David Duval's or Annika Sorenstam's head turns.

However, the *swing thought *of a *passive* head - or even mine of topspin down the line tennis shout - can often be a good thing.
		
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Have a look at Francesco Molinari's swing. There is no head movement on the backswing, and the slightest movement as he hits the ball. Same with Justin Rose his head is absolutely still swinging the club back, and the movement starts as he comes into the ball. Both pretty good ball strikers. Obviously it is impossible to have your head completely still until after hitting the ball, but not everyone has to swing like Natalie Gulbis either.


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## Foxholer (Feb 9, 2012)

richart said:



			Have a look at Francesco Molinari's swing. There is no head movement on the backswing, and the slightest movement as he hits the ball. Same with Justin Rose his head is absolutely still swinging the club back, and the movement starts as he comes into the ball. Both pretty good ball strikers. Obviously it is impossible to have your head completely still until after hitting the ball, but not everyone has to swing like Natalie Gulbis either.
		
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpDT22i4UCc

Hardly a stationary head!

And JR may move less, but he still moves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo9cM3KlTW4  Swing starts at 1:30

Oh, while searching for a face on, I found this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN0wPnLYNy4

Aaargh!

Try that head against a door jamb test. It'll show that if you keep you head stationary, you can't hit the ball more than 20 yards!


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Re: Keep your head still... just borrowed this from somewhere I'd consider a trustworthy source..





*Steady Head* - the average PGA Tour player moves his head one inch during his backswing and less on his downswing. Since virtually none of them move their heads forwards on the backswing, that means that for every guy who moves it two inches, there's a guy moving it zero inches. For every guy that moves it three inches, there are _two_ guys who don't move their head one bit. A *relatively steady head* is important because it's efficient to turn our shoulders in a circle. If the circle remains relatively steady, contact with the golf ball becomes easier and more consistent.


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In my opinion steady is the correct term, however as you can see above there are some that might move 3 inches and some that move none, so there is no right or wrong, you can't be telling someone to keep their head still if it doesn't fit with their swing pattern and likewise someone who has a steady head shouldn't suddenly start flappin' it around 

Keep your head *still* is definitely a taboo as stated by Foxy in the OP, although you'll hear just about every chopper say it to his mate. Mine happens to stay pretty still.... otherwise I'd air shot everything,..... it's my mouth that keeps flapping about  <<< feel free to disagree


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Whilst I'm here I might as well add to the fire with...

clubface square to the target
2-3 knuckles showing on the left hand
Line up square with the target line
Turn the left shoulder over the right foot
Club parallel at the top
Fire your hips
Keep the clubface square through the hitting zone
The toe points up at p2
The phrase... "I didn't get under it" 
Line up straight to hit it straight
Play the ball inside the left heel for every club
Low and frikkin' slow!
Make a wide takeaway
Swing back the first foot straight (WTF!)
Swing out to draw an iron
increase lag on the way down




Did I forget any?


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## brendy (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Whilst I'm here I might as well add to the fire with...

clubface square to the target
2-3 knuckles showing on the left hand
Line up square with the target line
Turn the left shoulder over the right foot
Club parallel at the top
Fire your hips
Keep the clubface square through the hitting zone
The toe points up at p2
The phrase... "I didn't get under it" 
Line up straight to hit it straight
Play the ball inside the left heel for every club
Low and frikkin' slow!
Make a wide takeaway
Swing back the first foot straight (WTF!)
Swing out to draw an iron
increase lag on the way down




Did I forget any?
		
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You forgot to bless yourself and pray you dont top it.


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## patricks148 (Feb 9, 2012)

timchump said:



			agree i just like to know who i'm talking to

out of interest 

is narin or tain your home course for your handicap ? 

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Nairn is my home course and have my handicap there, Tain is about 35 miles north of Inverness and is a very diff course and it has very good reciprical deals with other clubs in Ross-shire and Sutherland one of Which is Royal Dornoch which i can play 6 times a year for a Â£10 or Â£5 in winter.


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## patricks148 (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Is that why you play off 8.8 and rising? So knowing my h/cap will make you a better player? That's VERY cool.
		
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No I never give swing advice, i'm not qualified and know nothe about a golf swing as i've only played for just over 5 years. My point is theres all sorts on here giving swing, club and shaft advice without you know what level they play themselves.

You don't have to take the advice admt, but if you are starting out or a mid to high handicapper would you take advice from someone who my have far less ability than yourself?

Thats my point!


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## sawtooth (Feb 9, 2012)

Poor tips.

Backswing coils up power
take the club away low to the ground for as long as possible.
1 piece takeaway (perhaps OK for some techniques but definitely not arm swingers like me)
Consciously hitting down on the ball.


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## timchump (Feb 9, 2012)

for me it was keep your lower body still to hit from a solid base


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## sawtooth (Feb 9, 2012)

timchump said:



			for me it was keep your lower body still to hit from a solid base
		
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Unless you are putting or chipping , in which case that probably is very good advice.


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## timchump (Feb 9, 2012)

sawtooth said:



			Unless you are putting or chipping , in which case that probably is very good advice.

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full swings, - i found it very difficult to turn through the ball without moving my hips out the way first, 

which also meant moving my legs. by a solid base i mean keeping the lower half still, - thats what the guy told me to do


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## timchump (Feb 9, 2012)

sawtooth said:



			Unless you are putting or chipping , in which case that probably is very good advice.

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xxxx, your right no wonder my short game is soo bad! :clap:


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## Region3 (Feb 9, 2012)

I think a lot of these tips rely on the fact that FEEL and REAL are quite often completely different.

For example, someone who has way too much lower body movement might be told to try to keep the lower half still just to calm it down a bit.

I had a lesson once and the instructor wanted me to feel as though my arms were beating my hips on the way down. Now I know that there's no way you want your arms overtaking your legs, but it was just a feeling he wanted me to have because he thought my hips were going too early.
When I tried it it felt as though it was all wrong, but the video evidence proved otherwise.

Another reason why generic tips don't work a lot of the time. They need to be tailored to the individual.


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## timchump (Feb 9, 2012)

Region3 said:



			I think a lot of these tips rely on the fact that FEEL and REAL are quite often completely different.

For example, someone who has way too much lower body movement might be told to try to keep the lower half still just to calm it down a bit.

I had a lesson once and the instructor wanted me to feel as though my arms were beating my hips on the way down. Now I know that there's no way you want your arms overtaking your legs, but it was just a feeling he wanted me to have because he thought my hips were going too early.
When I tried it it felt as though it was all wrong, but the video evidence proved otherwise.

Another reason why generic tips don't work a lot of the time. They need to be tailored to the individual.
		
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agree feel and reel are very different.

if you have time, the link at the bottom of the signature with "my wonky swing" you can see my right leg kick across through the downswing/impact, the pro who i used to have lessons with really didn't like that movement, with a passion, at the start of every lesson he'd bring it up, hence the advise of a solid base, i just couldn't do it, the right leg movement always crept back, i found keeping my right leg glued to the ground difficult, and made my game worse really -  ( he taught me a lot of good stuff to)

the new guy i have lessons isn't too bothered by it, he thought the other pro' was more an old school style teacher...


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## Foxholer (Feb 9, 2012)

Region3 said:



			I think a lot of these tips rely on the fact that FEEL and REAL are quite often completely different.

For example, someone who has way too much lower body movement might be told to try to keep the lower half still just to calm it down a bit.

I had a lesson once and the instructor wanted me to feel as though my arms were beating my hips on the way down. Now I know that there's no way you want your arms overtaking your legs, but it was just a feeling he wanted me to have because he thought my hips were going too early.
When I tried it it felt as though it was all wrong, but the video evidence proved otherwise.

Another reason why generic tips don't work a lot of the time. They need to be tailored to the individual.
		
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Is the right answer!

If the words 'feel like' were added to most of them, and it was appropriate for the individual, then fine but as 'laws', definitely not!

Re JO's  Watch the ball (which I'm not all that keen on - is it going to run away?) and Chin up (see above as can be appropriate). Made me laugh thinking how you could do both!


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Re JO's Watch the ball (which I'm not all that keen on - is it going to run away?) and Chin up (see above as can be appropriate). Made me laugh thinking how you could do both!
		
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 makes me laugh too and yet I've seen people having lessons being told to do both.

Eyes at the ball is probably the only thing I ever liked about Nick Faldo, does it look like he has his chin up?




He's in a *perfect* posture.


(Too bad that he then moves into his right side and his head comes up before 'popcorning' the ball! LOLOL)


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## daymond (Feb 9, 2012)

A book I have by Arnold Palmer emphasises time and time again " keep a still head ". As he says " Imagine your head to be at the centre of a clock with the club and arms turning around the centre".
Good advice in my opinion


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## lobthewedge (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne;509369Too bad that he then moves into his right side and his head comes up before 'popcorning' the ball! LOLOL[/QUOTE said:
			
		


			Whats popcorning?
		
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## Monty_Brown (Feb 9, 2012)

lobthewedge said:



			Whats popcorning?
		
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I'm not sure but it may be another descriptor for "powderpuffing" the ball, which 6 time Major Champion Nick Faldo is regularly accused of on here  Bet he wishes he was a GM Forum member... we'd have sorted his swing right out including getting his driving distance up to the forum average of 300 yards (into the wind)  :rofl:


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

lobthewedge said:



			Whats popcorning?
		
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It's a reference to a swing analysis by a guy called Wayne de Francesco where he discusses how far modern players hit the ball whereas Faldo for his size and height basically 'popcorns' the ball in comparison... as in never hit it very far for a man his size... which is true, Faldo was never a long hitter, good ballstriker, but short off the tee.


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:



			we'd have sorted his swing right out including getting his driving distance up to the forum average of 300 yards (into the wind)  :rofl:
		
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That's last years average! Keep up! :ears:


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			It's a reference to a swing analysis by a guy called Wayne de Francesco where he discusses how far modern players hit the ball whereas Faldo for his size and height basically 'popcorns' the ball in comparison... as in never hit it very far for a man his size... which is true, Faldo was never a long hitter, good ballstriker, but short off the tee.
		
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wow I was right!


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:



			wow I was right! 

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LOL.... you always are!... apart from the Puma footwear! 

In reference to his 6 majors it just goes to show that you don't have to be long if you can hit it well, which is also confirmed as Luke Donald is world number 1. 

Faldo was an exceptional ball striker and part of that (in my opinion) was his set up was so perfect... which is why I said so earlier


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 9, 2012)

The European Tour stats for Faldo only go back to 1999, when he was a bit past his best, but he was averaging about 270 by that point, then up to 277 by 2004, which is mainly due to improved technology.

I guess the point that is made about Faldo is that for his size he didn't hit it far, but there is no evidence that he could have increased his distance without sacrificing strike quality or accuracy. Don't suppose he cares any way. Prpoer shot maker though :fore:

1992 at Muirfield... majestic.


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## Fore (Feb 9, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:



			I'm not sure but it may be another descriptor for "powderpuffing" the ball, which 6 time Major Champion Nick Faldo is regularly accused of on here  Bet he wishes he was a GM Forum member... we'd have sorted his swing right out including getting his driving distance up to the forum average of 300 yards (into the wind)  :rofl:
		
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Is that 300yards with a Range Ball?


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 9, 2012)

Fore said:



			Is that 300yards with a Range Ball?
		
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Of course. In -2C, using a 3-wood.


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:



			The European Tour stats for Faldo only go back to 1999, when he was a bit past his best, but he was averaging about 270 by that point, then up to 277 by 2004, which is mainly due to improved technology.

I guess the point that is made about Faldo is that for his size he didn't hit it far, but there is no evidence that he could have increased his distance without sacrificing strike quality or accuracy. Don't suppose he cares any way. Prpoer shot maker though :fore:

1992 at Muirfield... majestic.
		
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I agree with every word.

I'm sure I read that the 2-iron he hit on the 13th in the masters (remember that shot?) would be Tiger hitting a 7-iron, Norman had to play 1st from maybe 220yds... so Faldo had less... and hit 2-iron. Irons haven't changed THAT much, (the driver has) and they weren't playing 'gutty balls', so he's effectively quite a short hitter.

hey, hey, waddya know...... here's a vid...

[video=youtube;v20TsiaWYBQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v20TsiaWYBQ[/video]

Norman had 213yds...so Faldo was even closer than I guessed


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			I agree with every word.

I'm sure I read that the 2-iron he hit on the 13th in the masters (remember that shot?) would be Tiger hitting a 7-iron, Norman had to play 1st from maybe 220yds... so Faldo had less... and hit 2-iron. Irons haven't changed THAT much, (the driver has) and they weren't playing 'gutty balls', so he's effectively quite a short hitter.

hey, hey, waddya know...... here's a vid...

[video=youtube;v20TsiaWYBQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v20TsiaWYBQ[/video]

Norman had 213yds...so Faldo was even closer than I guessed 

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He had a wood in his hand at one point...What a powderpuff! :rofl:


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## Snelly (Feb 9, 2012)

Keeping your head still throughout the swing is very good advice.   Mine barely moves a millimetre until I hit the ball and it is the only thing I ever think of before making a swing. 

I am surprised that anyone (except James of course! ) would think otherwise.  


I know there are notable exceptions like Curtis Strange but in the main, I would think that most pros have a pretty still head during the swing.


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

Foxholer said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpDT22i4UCc

Hardly a stationary head!
		
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 Wrong Italian !


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

richart said:



			No thanks James.

Interesting on the US golf thay have been showing a lot of swings in slow motion, and some of the younger players have incredibly still heads until well after they have hit the ball. Same in tennis, watch Federer hit a forehand and his head is absolutely still as he hits the ball. Just think a lot of amateurs make the game harder with excessive head movement, and haven't got the hand eye co-ordination to correct it in their swing.

Doesn't mean I can do it myself.

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Snelly said:



			Keeping your head still throughout the swing is very good advice.   Mine barely moves a millimetre until I hit the ball and it is the only thing I ever think of before making a swing. 

I am surprised that anyone (except James of course! ) would think otherwise.  


I know there are notable exceptions like Curtis Strange but in the main, I would think that most pros have a pretty still head during the swing.
		
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Snelly where were you last night when they were ganging up on me. Must admit it is my only swing thought, perhaps it is an old school thing.


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## Snelly (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Whilst I'm here I might as well add to the fire with...

clubface square to the target
Line up square with the target line
Club parallel at the top
Keep the clubface square through the hitting zone
Line up straight to hit it straight


Did I forget any?
		
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I don't understand why these are terrible pieces of advice?   I aim to do all these when I hit the ball.

I wonder James whether your threads on swing mechanics are mostly beneficial or mostly detrimental to the reading forummers on here?

I find them interesting but not all that relevant to me as I don't need to change my swing or understand ball flight laws be they new or ancient.   And of course, as I have said before, I believe S&T to be a flawed, ungainly gimmick so with that as context, I am hardly likely to be adopting your suggestions.

But in general terms, I admire your enthusiasm for the subject and applaud your dedication to it. 

However on this thread, I find myself in total opposition to your view.  Furthermore, the advice you are offering with the above being stated as bad practice, is highly subjective at best and 100% wrong at worst.

For example, why on earth is it a bad idea to line up with the clubface square to the target?  That is just rubbish. I aim the clubface at the target on every shot and I am quite good.  Same goes for the other tips.

Am I missing something? Is it me?


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## Foxholer (Feb 9, 2012)

richart said:



 Wrong Italian !

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Doh! 

Try this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoUr8byMTI

Not a lot but there's still movement.

Hope I got the right brother!


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## Snelly (Feb 9, 2012)

richart said:



			Snelly where were you last night when they were ganging up on me. Must admit it is my only swing thought, perhaps it is an old school thing.
		
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I was at an AGM! 

If anyone on this forum can shift their head about during their swing and play well then I would like to see  it.  Not only that, I would like to play them for money. 

As I have said a lot of times before, there isn't really much that is new in golf despite what swing gurus and club manufacturers would have you believe.   Keeping your head still when you hit the ball was, is and always will be, a bloody good piece of advice that everyone should follow in my opinion.


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Doh! 

Try this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoUr8byMTI

Not a lot but there's still movement.
		
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Yes but if you tried to keep your head still, there is bound to be a small amount of movement, with so much shoulder and hip turn and weight transference. Doesn't mean he is not concentrating on keeping his head still, and I personally think that is pretty still, and is worth a lot a amateurs trying to replicate.

They reckon that Molinari is one of the best ball strikers on tour, and other Pro's will take time out to watch him on the practise ground. Shame he can't putt as well.


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 9, 2012)

Snelly said:



			As I have said a lot of times before, there isn't really much that is new in golf despite what swing gurus and club manufacturers would have you believe.   .
		
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That shorts, black work socks and brown shoes combo you posted a few weeks ago was new, but quite quite wrong, so you proved your point there! :rofl: Extensive therapy still hasn't shifted the mental image.


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## Snelly (Feb 9, 2012)

Monty_Brown said:



			That shorts, black work socks and brown shoes combo you posted a few weeks ago was new, but quite quite wrong, so you proved your point there! :rofl: Extensive therapy still hasn't shifted the mental image. 

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That's a bit rich from a man who like orange and white shoes.


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 9, 2012)

Snelly said:



			That's a bit rich from a man who like orange and white shoes.
		
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You cow!


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## Foxholer (Feb 9, 2012)

Ah. Found it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=qvpwG50fLnU

Someone told him to make sure he watched the ball?


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

Foxholer said:



			Ah. Found it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=qvpwG50fLnU

Someone told him to make sure he watched the ball?



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  but not to keep his head still.:ears:


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Snelly said:



			Mine barely moves a millimetre until I hit the ball and it is the only thing I ever think of before making a swing.
		
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No offence Snelly but that's total bollox.

If you go back to post 25 and read something that is written by professional instructors

and secondly.....

check this out Mr.'not move a millimeter steady head' 


you are at 2mins 55secs and your head moves *AT LEAST* 3" right!...

[video=youtube;LFGIMyeqo3w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFGIMyeqo3w[/video]



sorry Snelly......., what was it you were saying? Something about millimeters? 

In fact we may have to rename you to............ Mr. Wobbly Head :whoo:


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## Snelly (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			No offence Snelly but that's total bollox.

If you go back to post 25 and read something that is written by professional instructors

and secondly.....

check this out Mr.'not move a millimeter steady head' 


you are at 2mins 55secs and your head moves *AT LEAST* 3" right!...

sorry Snelly......., what was it you were saying? Something about millimeters? 

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Fair enough - you've got me but er, hang on, that was my special lean right for a draw swing! I remember now! 




No offence taken.  Mind you I wish you hadn't put that up - more comments on my sartorial elegance from Strangely Brown now no doubt!


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## Foxholer (Feb 9, 2012)

richart said:



			but not to keep his head still.:ears:
		
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They could well have - and he did so on a couple of those semi-downswings!

Not keeping his head still must have been the reason he hit it like he did (though his usual shot is a push slice). Still, hard to keep your head still when the body it's attached to move so much.

Here's an 'improved' version? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5chdYDbYQAA
 
And here's one to show you don't have to be classic to get it round!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91acJP66C0&feature=player_embedded


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Snelly said:



			Fair enough - you've got me but er, hang on, that was my special lean right for a draw swing! I remember now!
		
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You are without doubt a quality golfer, a natural per se, class and eccentricity beyond your years, an odd fetish with wearing schoolboy shorts admittedly.... and great company. Your posts with their eloquent verbage has us all reading them with baited breath... but you do move your head... a lot.

Whilst your posts make for great reading when it comes to the facts it's better not to second guess or indeed speculate. The facts always rise to the top. Feel and real are not on the same hymn sheet.

When it comes to bagging a pheasant from 70yds with a 12 gauge I'd definitely listen to your advice 




Oh, by the way... thanks for this....


Snelly said:



			I wonder James whether your threads on swing mechanics are mostly beneficial or mostly detrimental to the reading forummers on here?
		
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...........Mr.Wobbly Head


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## DaveM (Feb 9, 2012)

Enjoyed the vidio James. Thanks for that. Nice to see faces to names.


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

Just because someones head moves, doesn't mean they can't have a swing thought of trying to keep it as still as possible. Some people will have the thought of keeping their left arm straight, doesn't mean they can physically do it.

By the way try swing like Molinari James, simple is sometime best.:ears:


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Rich, in that vid who's head is the stillest?




(nb: love that vid... Bobmac was a star that day, I miss the old fella.. will he ever take me back?)  LOL


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Rich, in that vid who's head is the stillest?




(nb: love that vid... Bobmac was a star that day, I miss the old fella.. will he ever take me back?)  LOL
		
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Yours of course. So why not have a swing thought of trying to keep your head still ? Yes it will move on the down swing naturally, but on the backswing it can be almost dead still ?


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

richart said:



			So why not have a swing thought of trying to keep your head still ?
		
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No problem with that at all if it works with your game, but it's not a requirement and therefore shouldn't be taught or adopted if unnecessary or at detriment to your swing. If your head moves 3" so what? You'll see examples of people's head moving all over the place, pro's too.

If you line up 100 players you could probably decide their h/caps just by watching the head, the more they move the worse they are..(watch the video and see how many still heads there are). When it comes to the lower end h/caps it's really hard as 0-3" movement is fine, you just don't want it flappin' around. Thinking about keeping it still is FINE but you can't just keep it still if it doesn't work for you or your pattern... so you can't teach it apart from to 'flappers' or people that could benefit slightly. I was surprised to see how much Pieman's head moved, he bombs it, so there are always exceptions to ANY rule.



As an aside... if you don't turn your shoulders correctly and manage your weightshift you CAN'T keep your head still... which is why so many people reverse pivot in an effort to stay over the ball.


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## richart (Feb 9, 2012)

JustOne said:



			No problem with that at all if it works with your game, but it's not a requirement and therefore shouldn't be taught or adopted if unnecessary or at detriment to your swing. If your head moves 3" so what? You'll see examples of people's head moving all over the place, pro's too.

If you line up 100 players you could probably decide their h/caps just by watching the head, the more they move the worse they are..(watch the video and see how many still heads there are). When it comes to the lower end h/caps it's really hard as 0-3" movement is fine, you just don't want it flappin' around. Thinking about keeping it still is FINE but you can't just keep it still if it doesn't work for you or your pattern... so you can't teach it apart from to 'flappers' or people that could benefit slightly. I was surprised to see how much Pieman's head moved, he bombs it, so there are always exceptions to ANY rule.



As an aside... if you don't turn your shoulders correctly and manage your weightshift you CAN'T keep your head still... which is why so many people reverse pivot in an effort to stay over the ball.
		
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Think my point is that that the average golfer, handicap 15 + say, generally flaps his head around. If they want to improve, not to single figures , but say two or three shots, concentration on the head rather than a lot of other more complicated techniques may have a more instant result.

The Pros that move their head significantly, such as Gulbis and Creamer, practice hours a day to be able to play with that movement. If I moved my head like they do, I would do well to get the club on the ball, and I have pretty good hand eye co-ordination.

I did some tennis coaching a few years back, and with the beginners taught very simple drills, such as watching the ball, swinging low to high, hitting the ball from hip height, grip, feet movement etc. These simple instructions meant they improved quickly. The one drill though that made the biggest difference was keeping the head still when hitting the ball. Head up, ball missed.

Never too old to learn the basics, and rather than having loads of different swing thoughts when playing, have one simple one.


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

I understand the point you're trying to make Rich and have said that I agree, but it's with limitations, horses for courses. Would you change Snelly's? He moves his about 3"

The issue is with the definition or terminology, it would be better to say "try and keep your head more still" than "keep your head still". So "keep your head still" would constitute bad advice. If Snelly DID keep his head perfectly still it might mess up his swing so badly that he wouldn't be able to hit the ball at all.


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## Region3 (Feb 9, 2012)

It might be good advice, I don't knoe, but one I've never agreed with is "use your shots".

Our SI1 is only 410yds, why would I hit 3 wedges to all but guarantee no worse than a 5! 



I enjoyed watching the Woodhall video again. I came away thinking it wasn't as good as I'd expected it to be but watching that has made me want to go back again. Maybe it's all the snow!


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## JustOne (Feb 9, 2012)

Region3 said:



			Our SI1 is only 410yds, why would I hit 3 wedges to all but guarantee no worse than a 5! 

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4 wedges Gary.. at your shortness you'd still be chipping on :ears:


Woodhall vid is a cracker.. can't remember the winner though


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## srixon 1 (Feb 9, 2012)

Just watch a video of Eamon Darcy. Blows every tip ever given out of the water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7S8LyE0HpY

just do your own thing is the best tip. certainly worked for Eamon


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## Monty_Brown (Feb 10, 2012)

srixon 1 said:



			Just watch a video of Eamon Darcy. Blows every tip ever given out of the water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7S8LyE0HpY

just do your own thing is the best tip. certainly worked for Eamon
		
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Driving ranges up and down the country are full of people "doing their own thing". And they are awful!

I get the point about incorporating some individuality into the swing to suit your physical capabilities, but their are some key moves and positions that good players nearly all get into, despite any quirky traits in their swings.


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## JustOne (Feb 11, 2012)

JustOne said:



			Whilst I'm here I might as well add to the fire with...

clubface square to the target
Line up square with the target line
Club parallel at the top
Keep the clubface square through the hitting zone
Line up straight to hit it straight
		
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Snelly said:



			I don't understand why these are terrible pieces of advice? I aim to do all these when I hit the ball.
		
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It's not that they are terrible it's just they are *not things you have to do* and in some cases you *definitely shouldn't* according to the shot you're playing.

Clubface square to the target - when at address? at impact? if you swing slighlty from the inside that's a hook, a slice the other way.

Line up square with the target line - great for a push-draw, crap if you want to fade or hit it straight

Parallel at the top - totally unnecessary and inconsistent, John Daly swings a mile past parallel and you can easily play from less than parallel with a full shoulder turn.

Clubface square through the hitting zone - impossible - you swing on an arc so the club can only be square for 1/2000th of a second at most (impact time on a ball) at all other times it's either open or closed.

Line up straight to hit it straight.. not possible unless you have a 0 in to in path and 0 angle of attack. D-plane (trackman) shows a straight shot (with a 6 iron) is hit aiming 2.5Â° left, and more as the club gets longer http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter4.pdf and http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter5.pdf




I guess I might aswell add to the list with:

Hit up on your driver.

As discussed in another thread on the forum if approx Â½ the Tour players hit DOWN (including for example Luke Donald and Tiger) then they simply couldn't have been listening  If you want to TRY and swing up then great for you, but if it doesn't gfit with your pattern then don't. A lot of club players fall into problems when hitting up as they don't know the necessary adjustments required to make it work (eg get the desired ball flight).

nb: even when you know them it's flippin' hard, .........no comment


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## birdieman (Feb 11, 2012)

Regarding folks giving advice, there is only 1 pro on here I'm aware of so if no-one else posts then the section is useless.

As for handicap being an indicator of ability to teach or advise that is incorrect, whilst it undoubtedly helps I'm sure people can study biomechanics and golf swings without having to be able to shoot 5 under themselves.


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