# Living abroad



## pokerjoke (Feb 24, 2016)

Hi all I wanted to pick some brains on living abroad.

It may be a year it maybe 5 but me and the wife and kids are looking to move abroad maybe depending on a few things.

We would be looking at a country that welcomes the English,has warm or warmish weather for most of the year.
The country has to be good on sports as my son is sports mad and is showing signs of being really good and the warm would help to continue training most of the year,so good schools are important.

Getting a job would be important too if finances are needed.
I appreciate there could be hundreds of answers so hopefully someone has lived abroad and enjoyed it.


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## Crazyface (Feb 24, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Hi all I wanted to pick some brains on living abroad.

It may be a year it maybe 5 but me and the wife and kids are looking to move abroad maybe depending on a few things.

We would be looking at a country that welcomes the English,has warm or warmish weather for most of the year.
The country has to be good on sports as my son is sports mad and is showing signs of being really good and the warm would help to continue training most of the year,so good schools are important.

Getting a job would be important too if finances are needed.
I appreciate there could be hundreds of answers so hopefully someone has lived abroad and enjoyed it.
		
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It's gonna be Australia then.


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## rickg (Feb 24, 2016)

Benidorm! :rofl:


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## Three (Feb 24, 2016)

Pokerjoke, what's your occupation? 
Does your wife work?


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 24, 2016)

Crazyface had it right. Australia ticks the boxes you are asking for.

I know people who loved it and those who came back quickly. You have to think hard if you are prepared to make that huge move. In terms of Australia you also need to know if they will want you.


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## Aztecs27 (Feb 24, 2016)

Crazyface said:



			It's gonna be Australia then.
		
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Yep. 

Having been there on my honeymoon, I can highly recommend the place. It's awesome. If I thought it was logistically possible, I'd move there in a heartbeat (and the wife is DYING to move there).


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 24, 2016)

rickg said:



			Benidorm! :rofl:
		
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Get down The Solana, the karaoke night look awesome.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 24, 2016)

Personally I'd go for the US if you had the chance.  Mate moved out to Florida and he lives in a massive house with a swimming pool, can play golf all year, living the dream.

But I suspect with most places you will need to prove you can do a job that the locals can not.  A few have gone from the UK to the US with our company but they need 'sponsoring'. And then the wives have really struggled to get a job without the 'sponsorship' of a company.  A lot of these places are not like the UK where we let any tom, dick or harry in to take our jobs or sponge off the state. Apparently. 

Australia is great, toured it a few years ago and I know someone who went to live there for a year and she really enjoyed it. But she said it can get quite 'remote' as you are the other side of the world from any family in the UK, plus there is a 'lot of nothing' in Australia in that it can be a plane ride to get to another city.


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## richart (Feb 24, 2016)

Aztecs27 said:



			Yep. 

Having been there on my honeymoon, I can highly recommend the place. It's awesome. If I thought it was logistically possible, I'd move there in a heartbeat (and the wife is DYING to move there).
		
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 Not that easy to move to though. My brother in law applied two years ago and is still waiting. His son lives there already, which helps the process, but they are very fussy about taking Brits.

Mate of mine moved to Denia in Spain which is very nice.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 24, 2016)

richart said:



			Not that easy to move to though. My brother in law applied two years ago and is still waiting. His son lives there already, which helps the process, but they are very fussy about taking Brits.
*
Mate of mine moved to Denia in Spain which is very nice.*

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But when we vote to come out of the EU we will then be buggered if we want to move to Spain as well.

Have you thought of Scotland pokerjoke??  OK it may not always welcome the English and doesn't have lovely warm weather all of the time.  But with the way the world is going, soon it will possibly be the only place we English can move to.


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## craigstardis1976 (Feb 24, 2016)

The USA is so vast and culturally different by region but as a rule of thumb I would avoid the southern states aka the Bible Belt unless the desire to have very weird and frequent conversations about your personal relationship someone they call: "Jeezuza Cahriiiisttt" is something you talking about. The NE is too damn cold and the New England accents are just bloody awful to listen too all day long. 


The Midwest gets too bloody cold in winter, the SW is great if you enjoy poverty, poverty with native Americans or the oil industry...the NW is more UK like in its political outlook but has the drawback of cold and wet winters...

That leaves the Western states....California sounds great but is really expensive...Colorado is great but nearly as expensive and cold in winter....Arizona, especially Phoenix is in a boom time and has lots of white collar jobs, great golf and inexpensive housing, albeit rising energy prices but then we do live in the middle of a desert! 

Avoid the Mormon states of Utah and Idaho unless associating with Mormon Magical Underwear devotees is your idea of a good time while trying to hide your four other wives...

But the biggest issue will be going through the immigration process. If you are not marrying an American it may be tough but it depends...if a company offers you a job, great! If you have skills we need...great! If you happen to be an ethnic minority that may help as well!

And of course we play golf in the sun all year round!

Craig.


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## upsidedown (Feb 24, 2016)

New Zealand all the way mate


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2016)

Australia for me


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## Rooter (Feb 24, 2016)

richart said:



			Mate of mine moved to Denia in Spain which is very nice.
		
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My Brother in laws in laws (if that makes sense) live in Calp! Went to his wedding there, lovely part of the world! Far enough (and close enough) to benidorm!


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## Ethan (Feb 24, 2016)

You need to start with your migration status - suitable career, ties to the country, sponsor, likewise for spouse etc. 

If all of that is in good shape, the two most fun liveable places I have visited were Sydney and San Diego. The people are very leisure orientated, the weather and facilities are great, by the sea, good golf nearby, people speak English (well, sort of). Sydney does feel like a hell of a long way, though, and SD is 10 or 11 hours. If staying in Europe, I would consider Cyprus. Good weather, reasonably anglophile and seems fairly liveable.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 24, 2016)

Ethan said:



			You need to start with your migration status - suitable career, ties to the country, sponsor, likewise for spouse etc. 

If all of that is in good shape, the two most fun liveable places I have visited were Sydney and San Diego. The people are very leisure orientated, the weather and facilities are great, by the sea, good golf nearby, people speak English (well, sort of). Sydney does feel like a hell of a long way, though, and SD is 10 or 11 hours. If staying in Europe, I would consider Cyprus. Good weather, reasonably anglophile and seems fairly liveable.
		
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My sister in law emigrated to San Diego. She loves it


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## richart (Feb 24, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			But when we vote to come out of the EU we will then be buggered if we want to move to Spain as well.

Have you thought of Scotland pokerjoke??  OK it may not always welcome the English and doesn't have lovely warm weather all of the time.  But with the way the world is going, soon it will possibly be the only place we English can move to.

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 He wanted a country that welcomes the English, as well as warm.


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## wrighty1874 (Feb 24, 2016)

I lived in South Carolina for 3 years.Lovely  climate and plenty to do on the sports front.I started playing golf there.Lived in Rotterdam for 18 months.Good if your single. Spent 3 years in Bavaria and really enjoyed it.America would get my vote.


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## sawtooth (Feb 25, 2016)

I was only talking about this to the missus the other day. More of a pipe dream than reality for us I think but you never know.

Oz seems ideal but difficult to get in and there is an age limit I think or around 40.

Yes the states is great , San Diego and Palm Springs are places I have visited numerous times. They are amazing places but a long distance again from home and imagine quite expensive to buy/rent there.

For me Spain is the most practical destination. Close enough for people to visit often, and for you to get back home. Cheap flights. Plenty of ex-pats , golf , sun, etc

If your ( or your wife) employer  has offices there then investigate moving jobs with them. They might even help finance the move. 

Plus you get to learn another language!


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 25, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			But when we vote to come out of the EU we will then be buggered if we want to move to Spain as well.

Have you thought of Scotland pokerjoke??  OK it may not always welcome the English and doesn't have lovely warm weather all of the time.  But with the way the world is going, soon it will possibly be the only place we English can move to.

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Economic migrants are always welcome to Scotland so long as the can speak the language and embrace the culture.
Due to climate change Scotland is now the new South of England.


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## Norrin Radd (Feb 25, 2016)

south africa ,cape town .
the weather is awesome the cost of living is cheap ,the schooling is excellant and housing is cheap.
i lived there for about six months and loved it. family reasons had me coming back .otherwise i would still be there.


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## spongebob59 (Feb 25, 2016)

Ethan said:



			You need to start with your migration status - suitable career, ties to the country, sponsor, likewise for spouse etc. 

 If staying in Europe, I would consider Cyprus. Good weather, reasonably anglophile and seems fairly liveable.
		
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Isn't it packed full of Russians now ?


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## Slab (Feb 25, 2016)

The poacher said:



			south africa ,cape town .
the weather is awesome the cost of living is cheap ,the schooling is excellant and housing is cheap.
i lived there for about six months and loved it. family reasons had me coming back .otherwise i would still be there.
		
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Although the value of the Rand has been in freefall in recent years


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## Slime (Feb 25, 2016)

New Zealand or Australia.
My advice though, for what it's worth, is don't sell your house!
Rent it out whilst renting somewhere in your new destination for at least a year or two.
That way, if things go belly up, you have somewhere to come back to.
Just a thought.


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## TopOfTheFlop (Feb 25, 2016)

Lived in the US for 4 years and still go over to work roughly 4-6 weeks. Like aired before it's important you can sort the immigration part of it out - if you do then that would be my pick. 
San Diego is immense (La Jolla just north even better) and the golf is wonderful. Sports is what the schools are centred around mainly so your son would thrive!
So many places to choose from you'd be spoilt for choice but if your depending on work to sponsor you then you may not have a chance to choose location.


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## vkurup (Feb 25, 2016)

Having lived in the US (both coasts), UK, Aus and also worked/travelled a few, i think there are too many variables in this.   We moved to the UK from Sydney and it was a big culture shock, but I guess we have adapted now.  I guess beyond the mechanics of getting there - immigration, health, schools etc, there are other important things that you want to think thru
1) If you need to work, then what kind of work will you get, pay
2) Can your partner work
3) What kind of lifestyle do you like ... Sports (Aus is top choice), Sailing (Aus, NZ), Outdoor (NZ, Aus, US West Coast), hangout with the Jetset (cant beat NY) etc.

Once the glamour of the move has gone away, and you feel homesick what will you do? I guess an English man is welcome in most places - though like every other expat community, the English man would prefer to stick to his tribe and stay in small community. 

There are other places to look at Spain (golf, tennis), S France.  
You can also go off the beaten path.  Someone I knew, decided to move to Beijing and teach English while his wife was on a job secondment.  He was treated like a king and did not want to come back.  Hongkong is another option but they dont do much sports.   
Our top 5 cities to move outside the UK (in no particular order): Auckland, Sydney, Portland (Oregon), NY, Mumbai.


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 25, 2016)

vkurup said:



			Having lived in the US (both coasts), UK, Aus and also worked/travelled a few, i think there are too many variables in this.   We moved to the UK from Sydney and it was a big culture shock, but I guess we have adapted now.  I guess beyond the mechanics of getting there - immigration, health, schools etc, there are other important things that you want to think thru
1) If you need to work, then what kind of work will you get, pay
2) Can your partner work
3) What kind of lifestyle do you like ... Sports (Aus is top choice), Sailing (Aus, NZ), Outdoor (NZ, Aus, US West Coast), hangout with the Jetset (cant beat NY) etc.

Once the glamour of the move has gone away, and you feel homesick what will you do? *I guess an English man is welcome in most places - though like every other expat community, the English man would prefer to stick to his tribe and stay in small community. *

There are other places to look at Spain (golf, tennis), S France.  
You can also go off the beaten path.  Someone I knew, decided to move to Beijing and teach English while his wife was on a job secondment.  He was treated like a king and did not want to come back.  Hongkong is another option but they dont do much sports.   
Our top 5 cities to move outside the UK (in no particular order): Auckland, Sydney, Portland (Oregon), NY, Mumbai.
		
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Bloody English, emigrating to other countries for a better life but then not bothering to integrate with the local community and just staying in their own ghettos, mixing mostly with their own types.  

Absolutely disgraceful, no wonder this country is going to the dogs! Stop them coming in, get out of the EU, we just can't cope!!!!!.


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## vkurup (Feb 25, 2016)

Hacker Khan said:



			Bloody English, emigrating to other countries for a better life but then not bothering to integrate with the local community and just staying in their own ghettos, mixing mostly with their own types.  

Absolutely disgraceful, no wonder this country is going to the dogs! Stop them coming in, get out of the EU, we just can't cope!!!!!.
		
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hahha.. I am not picking on any particular set.. it is generally true for all expats in every major city in the world..  It is just human nature that people want to stay close to others of 'their type'.  However, that does not mean that they dont integrate.  You can live in ghetto, but when you go out... you go out and integrate.  A lot of it comes down to education and how open/tolerant people are to try things.   

Travel the world.. that the best education out there..


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## upsidedown (Feb 25, 2016)

vkurup said:



			hahha.. I am not picking on any particular set.. it is generally true for all expats in every major city in the world..  It is just human nature that people want to stay close to others of 'their type'.  However, that does not mean that they dont integrate.  You can live in ghetto, but when you go out... you go out and integrate.  A lot of it comes down to education and how open/tolerant people are to try things.   

Travel the world.. that the best education out there..
		
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We found in NZ that the Kiwis already have their circle of friends so whilst they were very welcoming you never got that friends for life  you get in your home country


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## Hacker Khan (Feb 25, 2016)

vkurup said:



			hahha.. I am not picking on any particular set.. it is generally true for all expats in every major city in the world..  It is just human nature that people want to stay close to others of 'their type'.  However, that does not mean that they dont integrate.  You can live in ghetto, but when you go out... you go out and integrate.  A lot of it comes down to education and how open/tolerant people are to try things.   

*Travel the world.. that the best education out there*..
		
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Easy there Alan Whicker. I have been to Cardiff once you know.


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## vkurup (Feb 25, 2016)

upsidedown said:



			We found in NZ that the Kiwis already have their circle of friends so whilst they were very welcoming you never got that friends for life  you get in your home country
		
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We loved our relatively short stay in NZ... but it is on our bucket list to go back and visit it again.  The Kiwis are generally more closed group as compared to the Aussies. We have some Kiwi friends so it was alright to get inside the ropes.  Understanding the kiwi english pronunciation was tad more difficult.


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## upsidedown (Feb 25, 2016)

vkurup said:



			We loved our relatively short stay in NZ... but it is on our bucket list to go back and visit it again.  The Kiwis are generally more closed group as compared to the Aussies. We have some Kiwi friends so it was alright to get inside the ropes.  Understanding the kiwi english pronunciation was tad more difficult.
		
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Yis :thup: We were in Canterbury where it can very one eyed


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## vkurup (Feb 25, 2016)

upsidedown said:



			Yis :thup: We were in Canterbury where it can very one eyed 

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I was asked if 'we had any pits'... while I might look a bit coal faced, i had never been near a mine..   so when our friends followed up with 
'do you have pits like a dog or cat' it was easier to understand..


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## Rooter (Feb 25, 2016)

vkurup said:



			I was asked if 'we had any pits'... while I might look a bit coal faced, i had never been near a mine..   so when our friends followed up with 
'do you have pits like a dog or cat' it was easier to understand..
		
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Wait until one of them or a saffer says "you can't" in a slightly raised tone!


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 25, 2016)

Rooter said:



			Wait until one of them or a saffer says "you can't" in a slightly raised tone!
		
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.....Or the posh Morningside lady who asks the ironmoger if he has any 'bleck sex.'


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## patricks148 (Feb 25, 2016)

dear boy i give you the only option......


Scotland

fantastic weather, almost the same language and the finest golf courses in the world.


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## Hickory_Hacker (Feb 26, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Hi all I wanted to pick some brains on living abroad.

It may be a year it maybe 5 but me and the wife and kids are looking to move abroad maybe depending on a few things.

We would be looking at a country that welcomes the English,has warm or warmish weather for most of the year.
The country has to be good on sports as my son is sports mad and is showing signs of being really good and the warm would help to continue training most of the year,so good schools are important.

Getting a job would be important too if finances are needed.
I appreciate there could be hundreds of answers so hopefully someone has lived abroad and enjoyed it.
		
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Is your son showing signs of being really good at a particular sport or are you just talking about gym class?


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## delc (Feb 26, 2016)

rickg said:



			Benidorm! :rofl:
		
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If the UK leaves the EU, you may not be allowed to move to Benidorm in Spain!


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## chrisd (Feb 26, 2016)

pokerjoke said:



			Hi all I wanted to pick some brains on living abroad.

It may be a year it maybe 5 but me and the wife and kids are looking to move abroad maybe depending on a few things.

We would be looking at a country that welcomes the English,has warm or warmish weather for most of the year.
The country has to be good on sports as my son is sports mad and is showing signs of being really good and the warm would help to continue training most of the year,so good schools are important.

Getting a job would be important too if finances are needed.
I appreciate there could be hundreds of answers so hopefully someone has lived abroad and enjoyed it.
		
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I employed a very very competent plant mechanic who decided to emigrate to NZ with his qualified nurse wife and two kids. She got work before they went but because he wasn't indentured he never found work although he was gifted at his job. They stayed for a while but realised that if they stayed too long without him working they would not have enough money to return and buy a house back home, so they came back after about a year.


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## Three (Feb 26, 2016)

delc said:



			If the UK leaves the EU, you may not be allowed to move to Benidorm in Spain! 

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Not true. 
That point has arisen here where I am, UK would keep existing arrangements with countries like Spain


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 26, 2016)

Three said:



			Not true. 
That point has arisen here where I am, UK would keep existing arrangements with countries like Spain
		
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More than a million Brits living in Spain.


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## Three (Feb 26, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			More than a million Brits living in Spain.
		
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Exactly. 
They wouldn't just get kicked out if we left the EU. 
Same as many other countries.


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## delc (Feb 26, 2016)

Three said:



			Exactly. 
They wouldn't just get kicked out if we left the EU. 
Same as many other countries.
		
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How do we know that?  Membership of the EU allows for free movement and the right to live and work in any other EU country. Can we be sure that these rights wouldn't be removed if we leave the EU?


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## Three (Feb 26, 2016)

delc said:



			How do we know that?  Membership of the EU allows for free movement and the right to live and work in any other EU country. Can we be sure that these rights wouldn't be removed if we leave the EU?
		
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Did we not have similar agreements before the EU? 
That's a genuine question Delc, surely we had reciprocal arrangements with our nearest and dearest?


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## 3offTheTee (Feb 26, 2016)

vkurup said:



			I was asked if 'we had any pits'... while I might look a bit coal faced, i had never been near a mine..   so when our friends followed up with 
'do you have pits like a dog or cat' it was easier to understand..
		
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We have family living in New Zealand and the life style is great although salaries are not particularly high.

On the same theme as an e being pronounced as an i we always roll over when our son's wife asks whether he wants to go out on the deck!!!!


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## vkurup (Feb 26, 2016)

Three said:



			Did we not have similar agreements before the EU? 
That's a genuine question Delc, surely we had reciprocal arrangements with our nearest and dearest?
		
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Only if you choose to vote yes....
... EU would be under no obligation to honor an external entity once UK votes out.  Now surely the mandarins in Westminister will try and get a deal to cover existing British migrants in EU, but again that could be challenged in the EU courts if UK is some sort of member.    Once UK is out of the EU, there would not be any difference between the Brits, Brazilian or Botswanian living in Spain/EU.


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2016)

vkurup said:



			Only if you choose to vote yes....
... EU would be under no obligation to honor an external entity once UK votes out.  Now surely the mandarins in Westminister will try and get a deal to cover existing British migrants in EU, but again that could be challenged in the EU courts if UK is some sort of member.    Once UK is out of the EU, there would not be any difference between the Brits, Brazilian or Botswanian living in Spain/EU.
		
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But surely it is in the interest of the EU countries to maintain the status quo with regards to Brits living there. Why should Brits living abroad be sent home if we vote to leave? There isn't the same suggestion that all EU citizens living in the UK will be told to leave. Or at least if there has been then I haven't heard about it.


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## vkurup (Feb 26, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			But surely it is in the interest of the EU countries to maintain the status quo with regards to Brits living there. Why should Brits living abroad be sent home if we vote to leave? There isn't the same suggestion that all EU citizens living in the UK will be told to leave. Or at least if there has been then I haven't heard about it.
		
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I did not mean they will be sent home.. but rather they would be treated at par with other non-europeans living in the said country


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2016)

vkurup said:



			I did not mean they will be sent home.. but rather they would be treated at par with other non-europeans living in the said country
		
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Will that make a massive difference to them? I'm assuming that most of the Brits living in Spain will be retired and will be out there enjoying the sunshine and spending their pension pots so work permits etc won't be a problem for them.


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## vkurup (Feb 26, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Will that make a massive difference to them? I'm assuming that most of the Brits living in Spain will be retired and will be out there enjoying the sunshine and spending their pension pots so work permits etc won't be a problem for them.
		
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I dont think work will be an issue... access to reciprocal healthcare is probably bigger issue


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## delc (Feb 26, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			But surely it is in the interest of the EU countries to maintain the status quo with regards to Brits living there. Why should Brits living abroad be sent home if we vote to leave? There isn't the same suggestion that all EU citizens living in the UK will be told to leave. Or at least if there has been then I haven't heard about it.
		
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I am not sure that the Spanish welcome Brits living and working in their country any more than we welcome East Europeans living and working in the UK. At best we may need visas and work permits to work there, and maybe having to adopt Spanish Nationality if we want to live there permanently.  :mmm:


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2016)

delc said:



			I am not sure that the Spanish welcome Brits living and working in their country any more than we welcome East Europeans living and working in the UK. At best we may need visas and work permits to work there, and maybe having to adopt Spanish Nationality if we want to live their permanently.
		
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Speak for yourself. I've got no problem with an Eastern European, or anyone else, wanting to come to the UK to work and create a better life for themselves. Obviously we can't just let everyone in and we have to have limits to the numbers we let in but for me someone wanting to work is more than welcome to come. It's just a shame we can't do a swap and for each Polish person that comes here to work we get to send one of our workshy British scroungers to Poland to let them live on benefits there.


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## Doon frae Troon (Feb 26, 2016)

2.2 Million Brits live in EU countries, Spain by far the biggest with a million.


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## delc (Feb 26, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Speak for yourself. I've got no problem with an Eastern European, or anyone else, wanting to come to the UK to work and create a better life for themselves. Obviously we can't just let everyone in and we have to have limits to the numbers we let in but for me someone wanting to work is more than welcome to come. It's just a shame we can't do a swap and for each Polish person that comes here to work we get to send one of our workshy British scroungers to Poland to let them live on benefits there.
		
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I agree with your last point, but the Daily Mail keeps going on about how many millions of migrants of all descriptions the EU wants to force us to take in! Not that I ever believe a word the Daily Mail prints btw, but some folks do!    :mmm:


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## ColchesterFC (Feb 26, 2016)

delc said:



			I agree with your last point, but the Daily Mail keeps going on about how many millions of migrants of all descriptions the EU wants to force us to take in! Not that I ever believe a word the Daily Mail prints btw, but some folks do!    :mmm:
		
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Maybe we could vote to leave the EU and as part of the new agreement with them we agree that their citizens can come here to work but they have to take one of ours in return. Would love to see Darren and Tracey from Romford with their 8 kids suddenly find themselves living in Poznan as part of a UK/EU exchange programme.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 27, 2016)

ColchesterFC said:



			Speak for yourself. I've got no problem with an Eastern European, or anyone else, wanting to come to the UK to work and create a better life for themselves. Obviously we can't just let everyone in and we have to have limits to the numbers we let in but for me someone wanting to work is more than welcome to come. It's just a shame we can't do a swap and for each Polish person that comes here to work we get to send one of our workshy British scroungers to Poland to let them live on benefits there.
		
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Me too. If it wasn't for a huge influx of Eastern European workers doing a lot of the menial work, the hospital I work in would be desperately short of porters, maintenance workers and cleaners and the ones I know all put in an honest days work for their money


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## delc (Feb 28, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Me too. If it wasn't for a huge influx of Eastern European workers doing a lot of the menial work, the hospital I work in would be desperately short of porters, maintenance workers and cleaners and the ones I know all put in an honest days work for their money
		
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Yes, but our young unemployed people living on benefits should be doing these useful jobs!


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 28, 2016)

delc said:



			Yes, but our young unemployed people living on benefits should be doing these useful jobs!  

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Sadly most of "our" unemployed are quite happy to sit on their arses and collect the dole money. Unless government is going to do anything about that, the roles will continue to be filled by Poles etc, who are keen to work, have no problems with doing menial work and have a strong work ethic


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## Big Whacker (Feb 28, 2016)

We don't need Romanians or Albanians, ever!

Parts of the UK are already looking like far eastern slums.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 28, 2016)

Big Whacker said:



			We don't need Romanians or Albanians, ever!

Parts of the UK are already looking like far eastern slums.
		
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What's wrong with Romanians or Albanians ?


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## SocketRocket (Feb 28, 2016)

delc said:



			Yes, but our young unemployed people living on benefits should be doing these useful jobs!  

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Absolutely.   If we gave them the option of doing that work or no benefits like other countries then there would be a different work ethic. Also using low skiiled migrants drags down wages and makes these jobs less attractive.


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## SocketRocket (Feb 28, 2016)

Doon frae Troon said:



			2.2 Million Brits live in EU countries, Spain by far the biggest with a million.
		
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Yes but the majority are people that take nothing from the Spanish state and pay a great deal into the economy.


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## delc (Feb 29, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Yes but the majority are people that take nothing from the Spanish state and pay a great deal into the economy.
		
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That doesn't necessarily mean that they will be given any rights, or permanent residence there. I know that Brits are not that popular in Spain, because we force up property prices to the detriment of the locals, and don't always integrate that well (sound familiar)!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 29, 2016)

delc said:



			That doesn't necessarily mean that they will be given any rights, or permanent residence there. I know that Brits are not that popular in Spain, because we force up property prices to the detriment of the locals, and don't always integrate that well (sound familiar)!  

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Do you "know that" or another generic statement lumping one and all together ?


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## delc (Feb 29, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Do you "know that" or another generic statement lumping one and all together ?
		
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I go to Spain quite often and can speak Spanish. Talking to the locals, they welcome us as tourists, but are less happy about us owning property and living there permanently.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 29, 2016)

delc said:



			I go to Spain quite often and can speak Spanish. Talking to the locals, they welcome us as tourists, but are less happy about us owning property and living there permanently.
		
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So its another generic statement lumping all In together


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 29, 2016)

Big Whacker said:



			We don't need Romanians or Albanians, ever!

Parts of the UK are already looking like far eastern slums.
		
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Bit strong


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 29, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Absolutely.   If we gave them the option of doing that work or no benefits like other countries then there would be a different work ethic. Also using low skiiled migrants drags down wages and makes these jobs less attractive.
		
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The issue is or own workforce prefer to scrounge on benefits and their isn't the deterrent or motivation (depending on your point of view) from the government to change. It makes it an open market for Poles etc to come in and get these menial jobs cleaning, etc that I am certain many British people who could work, think is beneath them. 

How can it drag wages down if they are on minimum wage anyway and how does it make the job less attractive. An employer simply wants it filled and if an unemployed Brit isn't prepared to get off benefits and do it why not give it to someone that will. Most of the Poles, Romanian, Hungarian and Croatians in the hospital portering, cleaning, working in stores all put in a decent days work. The adverts were all there for Brits to apply to but not many ever do


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## delc (Mar 1, 2016)

I carry a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) which entitles me to at least basic medical health care in other EU countries. What happens to that if we leave the EU?


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## delc (Mar 1, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			The issue is or own workforce prefer to scrounge on benefits and their isn't the deterrent or motivation (depending on your point of view) from the government to change. It makes it an open market for Poles etc to come in and get these menial jobs cleaning, etc that I am certain many British people who could work, think is beneath them. 

How can it drag wages down if they are on minimum wage anyway and how does it make the job less attractive. An employer simply wants it filled and if an unemployed Brit isn't prepared to get off benefits and do it why not give it to someone that will. Most of the Poles, Romanian, Hungarian and Croatians in the hospital portering, cleaning, working in stores all put in a decent days work. The adverts were all there for Brits to apply to but not many ever do
		
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If there was a shortage of applicants for these positions and no cheap foreign labour to fill them, then employers might have to offer higher rates of pay to attract people in! Simple supply and demand in the Capitalist World!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2016)

delc said:



			If there was a shortage of applicants for these positions and no cheap foreign labour to fill them, then employers might have to offer higher rates of pay to attract people in! Simple supply and demand in the Capitalist World!  

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And how would the employers be able to pay the higher wages - yep that's right the cost goes onto the consumer despite the product not being any better.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2016)

delc said:



			If there was a shortage of applicants for these positions and no cheap foreign labour to fill them, then employers might have to offer higher rates of pay to attract people in! Simple supply and demand in the Capitalist World!  

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And yet NHS pay remains capped so a cleaning job at band 1 is still going to be banded as band 1 and employers have little leeway to pay differently. Bottom line is in my opinion Brits seem happier in some (not all) cases to carry on with the handouts and a life on the dole rather than getting a foothold in the employment market while others from abroad are far less precious about the work they do to provide for their families


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## delc (Mar 1, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And yet NHS pay remains capped so a cleaning job at band 1 is still going to be banded as band 1 and employers have little leeway to pay differently. Bottom line is in my opinion Brits seem happier in some (not all) cases to carry on with the handouts and a life on the dole rather than getting a foothold in the employment market while others from abroad are far less precious about the work they do to provide for their families
		
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I am sure that grades could be adjusted nationally if there was a shortage of staff.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 1, 2016)

delc said:



			I am sure that grades could be adjusted nationally if there was a shortage of staff.
		
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Doubt it very much. National shortages of nurses, midwives and radiographer a but no change in their banding to bring more in so it ain't going to happen for cooking or cleaning roles


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 1, 2016)

delc said:



			I am sure that grades could be adjusted nationally if there was a shortage of staff.
		
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Well they can if they increase your taxes :thup:


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## Deleted member 16999 (Mar 1, 2016)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And yet NHS pay remains capped so a cleaning job at band 1 is still going to be banded as band 1 and employers have little leeway to pay differently. Bottom line is in my opinion Brits seem happier in some (not all) cases to carry on with the handouts and a life on the dole rather than getting a foothold in the employment market while others from abroad are far less precious about the work they do to provide for their families
		
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Or maybe it's regional as our hospitals up North are not full of foreigners doing these jobs. Part of the issue is our "low" wage is a far better wage than what they'd receive for the same job in their own Country, therefore financially to them it makes sense to come here, it's not always about work ethic, sometimes it's simply financial.


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