# 6N 2022



## spongebob59 (Jan 7, 2022)

Rumours are all the Scotland and Wales games to be played in England 🤔


----------



## Val (Jan 7, 2022)

Wont happen, I fully expect Scotland games to go ahead at Murrayfield as planned. Odd rumour.


----------



## Hobbit (Jan 7, 2022)

WRU are considering. No mention Scotland considering it.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Jan 7, 2022)

I did wonder whether Wales might consider moving their games to Bristol or suchlike ie just over the border - but it would just be exploiting a loophole and encouraging travel which seems somewhat socially irresponsible in the current climate.


----------



## spongebob59 (Jan 8, 2022)

https://www.ruck.co.uk/reports-suggest-scotland-will-play-six-nations-games-in-england/


----------



## Hobbit (Jan 8, 2022)

https://www.bbc.com/sport/scotland/59880405


----------



## Blue in Munich (Jan 8, 2022)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59906505.amp


Wales are due to host three games in this year's Six Nations rugby championship - with 72,000 fans expected in Cardiff for the first against Scotland on 12 February. 

*However, the Welsh Rugby Union has said it is exploring the option of moving games over the border to England* - where there are no limits on fans.

First Minister Mark Drakeford has confirmed there will be no change to the rules for the next week at least.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 8, 2022)

It will be a major financial blow for having an empty stadium so there should be no surprise that they are looking to shift matches. The WRFU don't have many home fixtures in a season, this is massive for them.


----------



## Grizzly (Jan 8, 2022)

I wonder though whether Boris will have a say in Cross border travel for such purposes, especially given Drake Ford sniping at him in public yesterday.


----------



## IanM (Jan 8, 2022)

Lots of folk from Chepstow nipped over the border for New Years Eve.  Same would happen for the rugby regardless of where games are played.


----------



## fundy (Jan 8, 2022)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport...police-called-speak-english-football-22683647


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 8, 2022)

We are due to go to Paris end of March for the France England game
Fingers crossed, but who knows what the regs will be then


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 8, 2022)

IanM said:



			Lots of folk from Chepstow nipped over the border for New Years Eve.  Same would happen for the rugby regardless of where games are played.
		
Click to expand...

I expect The Boars Head in Aust was overflowing.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Jan 8, 2022)

IanM said:



			Lots of folk from Chepstow nipped over the border for New Years Eve.  Same would happen for the rugby regardless of where games are played.
		
Click to expand...

Carlisle and Newcastle were busy with Scots as well. Good train links, easy to do.


----------



## Crazyface (Jan 8, 2022)

IanM said:



			Lots of folk from Chepstow nipped over the border for New Years Eve.  Same would happen for the rugby regardless of where games are played.
		
Click to expand...

Surprise suprise. I hope they were all slagging off the Welsh governemtn and praising Boris. Huh..


----------



## Crazyface (Jan 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Carlisle and Newcastle were busy with Scots as well. Good train links, easy to do.
		
Click to expand...

Ditto last post for the Scots. Huh?


----------



## Fade and Die (Jan 8, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Carlisle and Newcastle were busy with Scots as well. Good train links, easy to do.
		
Click to expand...

Niece (police officer) was working Carlisle on New Years and they renamed “Botchergate” “Scotchergate” because of the hoard! All well behaved though and a good time was had by all.


----------



## D-S (Jan 8, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I expect The Board Head in Aust was overflowing.
		
Click to expand...

I can testify that they didn’t get as far as Thornbury.


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 8, 2022)

D-S said:



			I can testify that they didn’t get as far as Thornbury.
		
Click to expand...

Thats much further.


----------



## Billysboots (Jan 8, 2022)

This will be the same Wales which was considering tight policing of the border during one of the earlier lockdowns to keep English travellers out, will it? I hope they are told in no uncertain terms to do one.


----------



## GB72 (Jan 8, 2022)

This is going to get messy. The various unions cannot afford another 6 Nations behind closed doors and so I suspect something will happen. Cannot see any more sporting bailouts and to have to take those losses again may be too much for a sport that already has funding issues. 

Then we have the added issue of non vaccinated players not being allowed to play rugby at any level in France.


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jan 9, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			We are due to go to Paris end of March for the France England game
Fingers crossed, but who knows what the regs will be then
		
Click to expand...

How did you get tickets for an away game, Phil?

We get the odd ticket for home games through the england XV membership, but would love to go to one of the away games, as well, especially Paris.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Jan 9, 2022)

We booked a package through gullivers travels, Eurostar hotel & tickets , my carer has used them before. 

👍


----------



## D-S (Jan 9, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Thats much further.
		
Click to expand...

Well about about 7 miles further.


----------



## IanM (Jan 9, 2022)

Remember,  it was Cardiff Council stopping English (and Scottish) tourists.   

This is rugby fans wanting to watch games.   An online petition to remove Drakeford is doing good business, although it has no actual meaning   

Newport County fans went En masse to Walsall (think it was) last week as they are not allowed to go to home games!


----------



## IanM (Jan 9, 2022)

Ps.  Stopping rugby in Wales would result in civil disorder


----------



## Carlwm (Jan 9, 2022)

IanM said:



			Lots of folk from Chepstow nipped over the border for New Years Eve.  Same would happen for the rugby regardless of where games are played.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure why folks needed to go to England for New Year's Eve. Pubs were open all over the festive period and all the ones I went to had a pretty laissez faire approach to the new guide lines. "Generally observing the rules" as it were.


----------



## IanM (Jan 9, 2022)

It depends where you were!  Tenby is a long way to the Border.... I'm near Chepstow, one half of the town *is* in England!

I get the sense that folk who are afraid to mix in sports crowds won't go, those who don't mind will go... commenting/pondering on why we don't have a UK wide approach to this is outside the scope of the forum!  (and that's probably a good idea!)


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 9, 2022)

D-S said:



			Well about about 7 miles further.
		
Click to expand...

Tongue was in cheek 😉
Met up with some friends in the White Lion recently, I do like Thornbury high street.
Do you play at Thornbury GC?


----------



## D-S (Jan 9, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Tongue was in cheek 😉
Met up with some friends in the White Lion recently, I do like Thornbury high street.
Do you play at Thornbury GC?
		
Click to expand...

I 
I live in Thornbury but I don't play there, might take up one of their flexible memberships as a second club next year.


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 9, 2022)

D-S said:



			I
I live in Thornbury but I don't play there, might take up one of their flexible memberships as a second club next year.
		
Click to expand...

Where do you play


----------



## D-S (Jan 9, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Where do you play
		
Click to expand...

Bristol and Clifton


----------



## SocketRocket (Jan 9, 2022)

D-S said:



			Bristol and Clifton
		
Click to expand...

Very nice, played there a few times.
You've got some good clubs in your area, I used to play at Clevedon when I lived in Portishead many years back before moving to Malvern.


----------



## Foxholer (Jan 10, 2022)

GB72 said:



			...
Then we have the added issue of non vaccinated players not being allowed to play rugby at any level in France.
		
Click to expand...

The French approach is the right one imo. This should be a non-issue, given the 'close proximity' nature of the sport! Slightly sympathetic wrt players genuinely unable to be vaccinated - because of medical exemption - but there should be very few, if any, of those in 6N Rugby, so my view is that it's no different to having a playing-preventing injury.


----------



## GB72 (Jan 11, 2022)

Full corwds back in Scotland and so just Wales to go before we can look forward to a proper tournament.


----------



## Val (Feb 1, 2022)

IanM said:



			Ps.  Stopping rugby in Wales would result in civil disorder  

Click to expand...

If you watched the regions many would say it stopped years ago 😉


----------



## Val (Feb 1, 2022)

The big build up this week, Eddie and his team coming for everyone 🤣

My favourite 6 weeks of the year, can't wait. Ticking off the Dublin trip for the first time this year as we do the grand slam of games.


----------



## IanM (Feb 1, 2022)

Val said:



			If you watched the regions many would say it stopped years ago 😉
		
Click to expand...

Drove to Ashburnham (90 mins) with my rugby mad Welsh buddy.   All the way he was bemoaning the demise of "proper club rugby" and its current regional incarnation.... and he was saying how stuffed Wales would be getting in Dublin on Saturday!!


----------



## BrianM (Feb 1, 2022)

Apart from Italy, I believe that at the moment we are clutching at straws about who could win the tournament….
Every team on their day could beat anyone?
Really enjoy the Six Nations but always routing for Scotland 😀


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 2, 2022)

As a Wales fan, it pains me to write this but my ranking for this years tournament would be:

1. France
2. Ireland
3. England
4. Scotland
5. Wales
6. Italy

France have the strongest half-backs and seem to have developed a Shaun Edwards inspired back-bone. Any team that beats them will have a decent shout at becoming champions

Ireland have a strong enough squad to be in the mix but over-reliance on their pensioners might hamstring them slightly. They'll try and bully teams into submission and that'll probably be enough for three or for wins but they haven't had much of a plan B in recent times so anyone matching them physically will have a strong chance against them.

England are usually there or thereabouts and I think losing "talisman" Owen Farrell might help them. Marcus Smith looks like a real star and George Ford is back in decent form again. Scrum half and front row look a little under-powered though. However, a lot of the squad are inexperienced internationally and if a number of those step up  to the mark, it might well be Lloegr's year.

Scotland will scare the bejesus out of some teams, I reckon, and look like a parks team against others. Their usual schtick since Gregor's been in charge. It's a decent looking set of players but I expect that they will shoot themselves in the foot in at least a couple of games.

Wales are a real curate's egg at the moment. We looked relentlessly ordinary during the Autumn Internationals. Hopeless against New Zealand, though that was outside the international window so we were a long way from a proper first team, competitive in defeat against South Africa  but managed two - unconvincing - wins against Fiji and Australia. We look very weak at scrum-half and centre, the front five is unsettled - plenty good players but not necessarily fitting into a decent unit - and a whole bunch of our talismen are injured. Unless we can invoke last year's rules and mostly play against fourteen every match, I think we're going to struggle. 

Italy are likely to be better than they have been. Coach Kieran Crowley has based his squad on Benneton, who've been having a decent season in the URC and been pretty ruthless in culling some experienced war horses in favour of fresh talent. However,  this might be a year to early for them and another whitewash beckons albeit having run their opposition closer than in the past few seasons.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 2, 2022)

The French did look good towards the back of last year. Such an exciting talent pool there. I think they might have a chance at a Grad Slam and beating the poms in Paris to seal the deal would be sweet!


----------



## GB72 (Feb 2, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			As a Wales fan, it pains me to write this but my ranking for this years tournament would be:

1. France
2. Ireland
3. England
4. Scotland
5. Wales
6. Italy

France have the strongest half-backs and seem to have developed a Shaun Edwards inspired back-bone. Any team that beats them will have a decent shout at becoming champions

Ireland have a strong enough squad to be in the mix but over-reliance on their pensioners might hamstring them slightly. They'll try and bully teams into submission and that'll probably be enough for three or for wins but they haven't had much of a plan B in recent times so anyone matching them physically will have a strong chance against them.

England are usually there or thereabouts and I think losing "talisman" Owen Farrell might help them. Marcus Smith looks like a real star and George Ford is back in decent form again. Scrum half and front row look a little under-powered though. However, a lot of the squad are inexperienced internationally and if a number of those step up  to the mark, it might well be Lloegr's year.

Scotland will scare the bejesus out of some teams, I reckon, and look like a parks team against others. Their usual schtick since Gregor's been in charge. It's a decent looking set of players but I expect that they will shoot themselves in the foot in at least a couple of games.

Wales are a real curate's egg at the moment. We looked relentlessly ordinary during the Autumn Internationals. Hopeless against New Zealand, though that was outside the international window so we were a long way from a proper first team, competitive in defeat against South Africa  but managed two - unconvincing - wins against Fiji and Australia. We look very weak at scrum-half and centre, the front five is unsettled - plenty good players but not necessarily fitting into a decent unit - and a whole bunch of our talismen are injured. Unless we can invoke last year's rules and mostly play against fourteen every match, I think we're going to struggle.

Italy are likely to be better than they have been. Coach Kieran Crowley has based his squad on Benneton, who've been having a decent season in the URC and been pretty ruthless in culling some experienced war horses in favour of fresh talent. However,  this might be a year to early for them and another whitewash beckons albeit having run their opposition closer than in the past few seasons.
		
Click to expand...

A pretty fair assessment. I have Scotland as my dark horse to win it this year. Ireland have been 'decent' for a while now without being outstanding. France will only be hamstrung by a few injuries and a few returning to fitness. Agree that Farrell being absent is a bonus for actually playing some running rugby in the backs. Disagree about scrum half as Youngs has been in fine form at Tigers this year and showing some of his old, sniping self. Not going to happen but I would start Ford at Fly Half to put a tactical stranglehold on the game and finish with the dynamism of Smith against a tiring opposition.

Wales are being hindered by selection policies and currently poor regional teams. They seem to want to copy the Irish model of having teams that only really need to compete in Europe and intenationally but cannot seem to get it right.

Pity Italy have not yet managed to convince players to change their allegiances as they can now do as that would have given them a great deal more strength across the park.

Cannot wait for Saturday, best few sporting weeks of the year.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 2, 2022)

Captainron said:



			The French did look good towards the back of last year. Such an exciting talent pool there. I think they might have a chance at a Grad Slam and beating the poms in Paris to seal the deal would be sweet!
		
Click to expand...

A couple of key injuries and a couple returning to fitness could be the issue (plus there is always the option of the traditional French implosion when they have it all but won).


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 2, 2022)

GB72 said:



			A pretty fair assessment. I have Scotland as my dark horse to win it this year. Ireland have been 'decent' for a while now without being outstanding. France will only be hamstrung by a few injuries and a few returning to fitness. Agree that Farrell being absent is a bonus for actually playing some running rugby in the backs. Disagree about scrum half as Youngs has been in fine form at Tigers this year and showing some of his old, sniping self. Not going to happen but I would start Ford at Fly Half to put a tactical stranglehold on the game and finish with the dynamism of Smith against a tiring opposition.

Wales are being hindered by selection policies and currently poor regional teams. They seem to want to copy the Irish model of having teams that only really need to compete in Europe and intenationally but cannot seem to get it right.

Pity Italy have not yet managed to convince players to change their allegiances as they can now do as that would have given them a great deal more strength across the park.

Cannot wait for Saturday, best few sporting weeks of the year.
		
Click to expand...

You may well be right about Ben Youngs. Leicester have been going well ad they wouldn't do that without functioning scrum-halves. Always thought though that's he's been a little too mercurial at the highest level. Capable of brilliance but not consistent enough. Think you're right that England will go better if Ford starts but it's a nice conundrum for Eddie. Either way he'll have a quality 10 on the park.

Welsh club rugby has been in disarray for decades, annoyingly. Warren Gatland was able to see through the carnage and somehow create competitive sides. Not sure Wayne Pivac has the right lieutenants to pull off the same trick. Throw in the number of world class players who are not available and we end up with an ordinary cohort who are indifferently coached. I fear the Italian match will be a wooden spoon decider.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 2, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			You may well be right about Ben Youngs. Leicester have been going well ad they wouldn't do that without functioning scrum-halves. Always thought though that's he's been a little too mercurial at the highest level. Capable of brilliance but not consistent enough. Think you're right that England will go better if Ford starts but it's a nice conundrum for Eddie. Either way he'll have a quality 10 on the park.

Welsh club rugby has been in disarray for decades, annoyingly. Warren Gatland was able to see through the carnage and somehow create competitive sides. Not sure Wayne Pivac has the right lieutenants to pull off the same trick. Throw in the number of world class players who are not available and we end up with an ordinary cohort who are indifferently coached. I fear the Italian match will be a wooden spoon decider.
		
Click to expand...

Gatland had a very set way of playing and a solid squad to fill the roles that were needed. Now that Pivac is looking to play more expansively, he is lacking some of the resources needed to do that. Plus, you are right, the injury list is shocking. 

So long as Pivac does not pressure Reffell to leave Tigers and join the regions then i am happy. We have lost a few players to the carrot or international rugby, Holmes and Costelow the most recent 2.


----------



## Val (Feb 2, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			As a Wales fan, it pains me to write this but my ranking for this years tournament would be:

1. France
2. Ireland
3. England
4. Scotland
5. Wales
6. Italy

France have the strongest half-backs and seem to have developed a Shaun Edwards inspired back-bone. Any team that beats them will have a decent shout at becoming champions

Ireland have a strong enough squad to be in the mix but over-reliance on their pensioners might hamstring them slightly. They'll try and bully teams into submission and that'll probably be enough for three or for wins but they haven't had much of a plan B in recent times so anyone matching them physically will have a strong chance against them.

England are usually there or thereabouts and I think losing "talisman" Owen Farrell might help them. Marcus Smith looks like a real star and George Ford is back in decent form again. Scrum half and front row look a little under-powered though. However, a lot of the squad are inexperienced internationally and if a number of those step up  to the mark, it might well be Lloegr's year.

Scotland will scare the bejesus out of some teams, I reckon, and look like a parks team against others. Their usual schtick since Gregor's been in charge. It's a decent looking set of players but I expect that they will shoot themselves in the foot in at least a couple of games.

Wales are a real curate's egg at the moment. We looked relentlessly ordinary during the Autumn Internationals. Hopeless against New Zealand, though that was outside the international window so we were a long way from a proper first team, competitive in defeat against South Africa  but managed two - unconvincing - wins against Fiji and Australia. We look very weak at scrum-half and centre, the front five is unsettled - plenty good players but not necessarily fitting into a decent unit - and a whole bunch of our talismen are injured. Unless we can invoke last year's rules and mostly play against fourteen every match, I think we're going to struggle.

Italy are likely to be better than they have been. Coach Kieran Crowley has based his squad on Benneton, who've been having a decent season in the URC and been pretty ruthless in culling some experienced war horses in favour of fresh talent. However,  this might be a year to early for them and another whitewash beckons albeit having run their opposition closer than in the past few seasons.
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't disagree with your table prediction


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 3, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Gatland had a very set way of playing and a solid squad to fill the roles that were needed. Now that Pivac is looking to play more expansively, he is lacking some of the resources needed to do that. Plus, you are right, the injury list is shocking.

So long as Pivac does not pressure Reffell to leave Tigers and join the regions then i am happy. We have lost a few players to the carrot or international rugby, Holmes and Costelow the most recent 2.
		
Click to expand...

I'm a huge fan of Dan Biggar. The best stand-off in the British Isles, in many ways but he's not the man you want, if you're proposing to unleash your backs, especially when you'v got a novice & one of the Ancients at 12 & 13. An attempt at an expansive game will make Wales extremely vulnerable.


----------



## Val (Feb 4, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			I'm a huge fan of Dan Biggar. The best stand-off in the British Isles, in many ways but he's not the man you want, if you're proposing to unleash your backs, especially when you'v got a novice & one of the Ancients at 12 & 13. An attempt at an expansive game will make Wales extremely vulnerable.
		
Click to expand...

He maybe the best in the British Isles but the best from the British Isles plays in Paris 😉


----------



## Val (Feb 4, 2022)

6mass Eve, hope the weather forecast for Edinburgh is wrong 😬


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 4, 2022)

Val said:



			He maybe the best in the British Isles but the best from the British Isles plays in Paris 😉
		
Click to expand...

Ha ha! 

I wouldn't want Finn Russell in my team. He's exciting to watch but, much like his national coach was in his day, he can be as much a liability as match winner.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 4, 2022)

My predictions for the weekend:

Ireland - Wales: Hard to type this but Ireland by two scores
France - Italy: France by thirty
Scotland - England: Toughest one to call. England by seven, maybe?


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 5, 2022)

The Scotland England game was a cracker for an hour.
The u20 England backs are electric


----------



## Val (Feb 5, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Ha ha! 

I wouldn't want Finn Russell in my team. He's exciting to watch but, much like his national coach was in his day, he can be as much a liability as match winner.
		
Click to expand...

You wouldn't want the best 10 in the northern hemisphere in your team? 🤣


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 5, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			The Scotland England game was a cracker for an hour.
The u20 England backs are electric
		
Click to expand...

Highlights for those interested


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 5, 2022)

Val said:



			You wouldn't want the best 10 in the northern hemisphere in your team? 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Well, he might be very exciting to watch, especially for a neutral, but I'm not convinced he's in the top ten stand-offs, let alone the best. The ratio between sublime play and ridiculous brain farts suggests his net gain to the team is pretty low.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 5, 2022)

ANYBODY BUT ENGLAND


----------



## Captainron (Feb 5, 2022)

Some try that by Ireland. Seems they are in a supremely positive mood today


----------



## Captainron (Feb 5, 2022)

Looks like the All Blacks have turned up wearing green? WTF?!?


----------



## Imurg (Feb 5, 2022)

I think Wales did well to keep that to just 10 down....


----------



## RichA (Feb 5, 2022)

Gabby's on fire this afternoon. Neat trick...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

England are doing a lot of good work but missing a cutting edge and Scotland comfortable in defence. And then clinical going forward - England need to get some fluency going
edit - some interesting rule changes as well


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 5, 2022)

As expected. We got a pasting. Hats off to Ireland, they played well.


----------



## BrianM (Feb 5, 2022)

Scotland a mile off it, England haven't had to play well so far to lead this game.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

Just a touch stupid from Cowan Dickie that


----------



## Imurg (Feb 5, 2022)

1 minute to score a try and win the game and England wandering around like its a Sunday afternoon stroll...
A bit of urgency Lads....please....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

Strange that Jones hasn’t used the bench enough - Youngs hasn’t been great and Randall should have come on , Nowell earlier as well 

Think the ref bottled that a little at the end there with the penalty at the scrum 

But Scotland got it right at the right time


----------



## Captainron (Feb 5, 2022)

Brilliant.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 5, 2022)

Bad luck to a plucky English side.
Good to see them making a decent game out of it.


----------



## BrianM (Feb 5, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Strange that Jones hasn’t used the bench enough - Youngs hasn’t been great and Randall should have come on , Nowell earlier as well

Think the ref bottled that a little at the end there with the penalty at the scrum

But Scotland got it right at the right time
		
Click to expand...

The referee never bottled anything, It wasn't a penalty at the scrum.
Cowan Dickie was just a reaction, just a split second decision, easy to criticise after the event.
Standard not great but really exciting game.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

BrianM said:



			The referee never bottled anything, It wasn't a penalty at the scrum.
Cowan Dickie was just a reaction, just a split second decision, easy to criticise after the event.
Standard not great but really exciting game.
		
Click to expand...

That was a penalty at the scrum - he kept resetting and warning for the players going down and then they went down again , it was a penalty earlier in the game and should have been there and then the player ( as you can see in the video )  coming off his feet at the end as well to steal the ball.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490034087679205377


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 5, 2022)

I watched the game in a pub, couldn't hear the commentary. Was there a reason England weren't awarded a penalty at the end when Scotland kept collapsing the scrum? It was at least 4 on the trot, could have been 5.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Bad luck to a plucky English side.
Good to see them making a decent game out of it.

Click to expand...

And a ref missing neck rolls...


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 5, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I watched the game in a pub, couldn't hear the commentary. Was there a reason England weren't awarded a penalty at the end when Scotland kept collapsing the scrum? It was at least 4 on the trot, could have been 5.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, Scotland were at home....as was the ref probably


----------



## pokerjoke (Feb 5, 2022)

England were dominating the game until Smith was replaced.
I blame Jones


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 5, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Yes, Scotland were at home....as was the ref probably

Click to expand...

Ha ha. Probably. I don't know rugby well enough but normally when you keep repeating the same offence it's a penalty. In particular there was only one team benefitting from that and that is normally picked up on.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2022)

pokerjoke said:



			England were dominating the game until Smith was replaced.
I blame Jones
		
Click to expand...

Wouldn't disagree. Ireland looked a good side too. Going to be a wide open comp this year


----------



## ColchesterFC (Feb 5, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wouldn't disagree. Ireland looked a good side too. *Going to be a wide open comp this year*

Click to expand...

I'm not convinced it is. Can only see Ireland or France winning it. If I had to pick now I'd go for France as their two away games are Scotland and England. Ireland are away to England and France. Can see the France v Ireland game next Saturday being the decider for the championship.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not convinced it is. Can only see Ireland or France winning it. If I had to pick now I'd go for France as their two away games are Scotland and England. Ireland are away to England and France. Can see the France v Ireland game next Saturday being the decider for the championship.
		
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that it’s between Ireland and France - Ireland imo are just a touch stronger with a bit more expirence


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 5, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			I'm not convinced it is. Can only see Ireland or France winning it. If I had to pick now I'd go for France as their two away games are Scotland and England. Ireland are away to England and France. Can see the France v Ireland game next Saturday being the decider for the championship.
		
Click to expand...

I can see the French chucking in one of their unpredictable performances and while Ireland looked dominant against Wales (missing their own key players) and I can see England bringing a big performance and nicking it. England will need something and isn't that 4 defeats from the last 6 for Jones?


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 6, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wouldn't disagree. Ireland looked a good side too. Going to be a wide open comp this year
		
Click to expand...

Hard to judge Ireland because Wales had such a shocker. I would imagine the Irish were only playing at about 80% though.  Having said that, I don't think they'll get another referee quite as clueless at scrum time  as Jaco Peyper. They infringed constantly but somehow got the decision each time. In other games, I would hope they'd get refereed properly. This isn't sour grapes. Ireland could have put their Sevens team out and won yesterday.


----------



## AliMc (Feb 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			That was a penalty at the scrum - he kept resetting and warning for the players going down and then they went down again , it was a penalty earlier in the game and should have been there and then the player ( as you can see in the video )  coming off his feet at the end as well to steal the ball.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490034087679205377

Click to expand...

Have to confess that I know little of the rules, I have little interest tbh but they said on the BBC highlight programme tonight that World Rugby have reviewed the scrums at the end of the game and said that there were no penalty offences and the Ref got it right


----------



## Val (Feb 6, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Well, he might be very exciting to watch, especially for a neutral, but I'm not convinced he's in the top ten stand-offs, let alone the best. The ratio between sublime play and ridiculous brain farts suggests his net gain to the team is pretty low.
		
Click to expand...

Aw man, this is hilarious. You obviously don't see much of him, you should try and watch the recent Saints v Racing HeinekenCup match where he showed Biggar a masterclass. Maybe Racing are just careless with their cash, or maybe they recognise a world class player when they see one.


----------



## Val (Feb 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I watched the game in a pub, couldn't hear the commentary. Was there a reason England weren't awarded a penalty at the end when Scotland kept collapsing the scrum? It was at least 4 on the trot, could have been 5.
		
Click to expand...

Yip, the reason was there was no penalty to give.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2022)

Val said:



			Yip, the reason was there was no penalty to give.
		
Click to expand...

Why did they keep repeating the scrums then, always to England? As I say, we couldn't hear the commentary. Normally, if you keep redoing it becomes a penalty.


----------



## Val (Feb 6, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why did they keep repeating the scrums then, always to England? As I say, we couldn't hear the commentary. Normally, if you keep redoing it becomes a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

The scrum couldn't be completed as it wasn't ever stable, a reset is what happens and not a penalty. The referee called both front rows over, told them they were all at fault and to sort it, which they did. 

When Brian Moor and Nigel Owens in commentary say the ref called it right you could be pretty sure he called it eight I reckon.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 6, 2022)

Some good summation of the key moments 

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/ref-watch-late-scrum-sequence-comes-under-calcutta-cup-scrutiny/


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 6, 2022)

Val said:



			The scrum couldn't be completed as it wasn't ever stable, a reset is what happens and not a penalty. The referee called both front rows over, told them they were all at fault and to sort it, which they did.

When Brian Moor and Nigel Owens in commentary say the ref called it right you could be pretty sure he called it eight I reckon.
		
Click to expand...

Cheers, thank you. It was a genuine question, I'm pleased you took it that way 👍


----------



## Captainron (Feb 6, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Hard to judge Ireland because Wales had such a shocker. I would imagine the Irish were only playing at about 80% though.  Having said that, I don't think they'll get another referee quite as clueless at scrum time  as Jaco Peyper. They infringed constantly but somehow got the decision each time. In other games, I would hope they'd get refereed properly. This isn't sour grapes. Ireland could have put their Sevens team out and won yesterday.
		
Click to expand...

Peyper has been praised by Rugbypass for exactly this. 

*Scrum*
This positive approach extended to Peyper’s management of the scrum. Perhaps due to the conditions the first half saw an unusually high ten set-pieces take place but only two required resets and only the final scrum of the half ended in the award of a penalty.
Another indicator of the referee’s confidence came with him calling for play to continue and possession be moved away on four occasions when the front rows caved in with the ball at the no.8’s feet. Since neither pack were going forward nor looking for a second drive this was an entirely justifiable (and safe) approach but when Ireland did get a nudge on before the front rows went down Peyper read this changed situation perfectly and rewarded them with a penalty.


----------



## BrianM (Feb 6, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Some good summation of the key moments

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/ref-watch-late-scrum-sequence-comes-under-calcutta-cup-scrutiny/

Click to expand...

They are saying that unless the referee is 100% sure it shouldn't be a penalty at the scrum, so he got the decision correct at the end.
Also the scrums were untidy throughout the match as well.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 6, 2022)

Val said:



			The scrum couldn't be completed as it wasn't ever stable, a reset is what happens and not a penalty. The referee called both front rows over, told them they were all at fault and to sort it, which they did.

When Brian Moor and Nigel Owens in commentary say the ref called it right you could be pretty sure he called it eight I reckon.
		
Click to expand...

Apart from the last couple of minutes fannying about with the scrum, that seemed a very simple game for the ref - but that normally means he did a great job. TMO did his job too, picking the neck-roll that was missed and confirming the Penalty Try incident.
Lots of talking these days, and has been for a while. I can remember the first time I heard a Ref talking to players...Clive Norling sorting everyone out with his calmingly chatty Welsh voice. He could have been useful elsewhere on that tour. That was the one with major disruptions by anti-apartheid demonstrations. Those were interesting times in NZ!


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 6, 2022)

Val said:



			Aw man, this is hilarious. You obviously don't see much of him, you should try and watch the recent Saints v Racing HeinekenCup match where he showed Biggar a masterclass. Maybe Racing are just careless with their cash, or maybe they recognise a world class player when they see one.
		
Click to expand...

That's true enough, in fairness. I've only really seen him play for Scotland when he's mostly been inconsistent. Don't think he was great on Saturday. Managed to get away with it though.

After many years of great service to his clubs, it's clear that Dan is coming towards the end of his career at the top level. A class apart from Finn, for the most part though.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 6, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Peyper has been praised by Rugbypass for exactly this.

*Scrum*
This positive approach extended to Peyper’s management of the scrum. Perhaps due to the conditions the first half saw an unusually high ten set-pieces take place but only two required resets and only the final scrum of the half ended in the award of a penalty.
Another indicator of the referee’s confidence came with him calling for play to continue and possession be moved away on four occasions when the front rows caved in with the ball at the no.8’s feet. Since neither pack were going forward nor looking for a second drive this was an entirely justifiable (and safe) approach but when Ireland did get a nudge on before the front rows went down Peyper read this changed situation perfectly and rewarded them with a penalty.
		
Click to expand...

He might well have been confident and kept the resets to a minimum, but in my opinion, at least, he got it wrong, for the most part. As I said, I have no beef with the result. It was men against boys but I think it's comical that Rugby Pass regard his refereeing at scrum time as being good.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 7, 2022)

I love the Six Nations......it's when folk do who not have a clue about the rules of the sport suddenly become experts.
Just wait for the Winter Olympics to really get going, that takes it to a different level.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2022)

BrianM said:



			They are saying that unless the referee is 100% sure it shouldn't be a penalty at the scrum, so he got the decision correct at the end.
Also the scrums were untidy throughout the match as well.
		
Click to expand...

They were a mess - he penalised a few early but didn’t later , so just a touch of inconsistency in the end but it’s a tough call to make. Scotland through being clinical at the right time prob just edged the win with a helping hand of silly mistakes from England , was a good game.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Feb 7, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They were a mess - he penalised a few early but didn’t later , so just a touch of inconsistency in the end but it’s a tough call to make. Scotland through being clinical at the right time prob just edged the win with a helping hand of silly mistakes from England , was a good game.
		
Click to expand...

Though in the early scrums were the penalties not for incorrect/early moving by a hooker of the brake foot.  The 'Red time' issues in the scrum were quite different - well as far as I understood things.

On Russell...I thought John Barclay did an excellent job on yesterday's Rugby Special explaining for each of Scotland's tries the detailed planned and executed sequence of things that had to happen.  So for the cross-kick try how Darcy Graham was able to disengage and move right across to the right in readiness and then the point at which Russell signalled to Darcy Graham to get ready to go for the cross-kick.  The plan to drag the left winger and fullback out of position had worked, they'd been sucked across to Scotland's left...and Russell could see they couldn't get back into position to cover Graham on the right and that only Cowan-Dickie could prevent the try if he and Graham got it right.


----------



## Beezerk (Feb 7, 2022)

Watched the game in the local micro pub, great atmosphere and banter with the lone Scotsman in there 😂
Not quite sure how Scotland won that one, created very little and we’re dominated for most of the game. Stupid decisions both with and without the ball cost England and constantly kicking it away when in good field positions 🤯


----------



## Sports_Fanatic (Feb 7, 2022)

For all the stick Farrell gets, I'm fairly confident if he had been at centre England wouldn't have lost that match. Room for improvement on the kicks both from hand and tee, particularly the penalty to the corner and just all round attitude and management. Smith still very good and the right fly half, I just think Farrell improves the team and is underappreciated. 

I know Six Nations is always competitive so a loss isn't end of the world, but I'm not convinced Jones is the right person anymore/for a while.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 7, 2022)

I think part of the issue is that, contrary to what most supporters feel, Jones has always seen the 6 Nations as irrelevant. He judges himself on World Cups and matches against the Southern Hemisphere and so I really get the feeling that Jones has never really been that worried about how we preform. 

Still, a very deserved Scotland win but no need for a full on England panic yet. We took a retrograde step in calling Daley back into the team as well as a couple of other changes forced on us by Covid. 

Wales look awful, to lose so heavily in conditions where scoring at all was difficult was bad enough. Play that match on better conditions and that could have been a cricket score. Scotland have got to be confident for their first win in Wales for a while. 

Actually expected more from France yesterday. Be interesting to see how they go against Ireland next week.


----------



## Val (Feb 7, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			That's true enough, in fairness. I've only really seen him play for Scotland when he's mostly been inconsistent. Don't think he was great on Saturday. Managed to get away with it though.

After many years of great service to his clubs, it's clear that Dan is coming towards the end of his career at the top level. A class apart from Finn, for the most part though.
		
Click to expand...

Mate, I get you're Welsh but even the most blind loyal can see, I'm not even convinced if your serious or not. Russell was outstanding on Saturday, there is a reason he's been named in many of pundits best team of the opening weekend.

Anyway, all about opinions and I guess if you think Russell isn't on the top 10 fly half's in world rugby, you'll be in a serious minority.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 7, 2022)

Val said:



			Mate, I get you're Welsh but even the most blind loyal can see, I'm not even convinced if your serious or not. Russell was outstanding on Saturday, there is a reason he's been named in many of pundits best team of the opening weekend.

Anyway, all about opinions and I guess if you think Russell isn't on the top 10 fly half's in world rugby, you'll be in a serious minority.
		
Click to expand...

Finn Russell is superb , shown it for the club and also for country and Townsend is the perfect coach to let him flourish - it’s the exact same situation as the 97 Lions 

He is the best 10 in the 6N


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 8, 2022)

Val said:



			Mate, I get you're Welsh but even the most blind loyal can see, I'm not even convinced if your serious or not. Russell was outstanding on Saturday, there is a reason he's been named in many of pundits best team of the opening weekend.

Anyway, all about opinions and I guess if you think Russell isn't on the top 10 fly half's in world rugby, you'll be in a serious minority.
		
Click to expand...

Happy to be in that minority.

I was actually supporting Scotland on Saturday (though I won't be, next weekend ) but, while he did many things very well, I still think Finn was up & down, performance-wise. Six or possibly seven out of ten. A sharper England might have taken advantage of his risky play on a couple of occasions. Still, Gregor must rate him highly given - if I remember correctly - he's the only out & out stand-off in the squad. Only utility backs like Blair Kinghorn to cover.

Does that mean the Scottish stand-off cupboard is bare? I was surprised Adam Hastings didn't make the squad. I don't watch a lot of English Premership rugby so I don't know whether he's been injured, not getting game time or simply out of form but I remember him being a good player for Glasgow, pre-Covid. Speaking of Glasgow, Ross Thompson seems a decent prospect. Still young though.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 8, 2022)

Val said:



			Mate, I get you're Welsh but even the most blind loyal can see, I'm not even convinced if your serious or not. Russell was outstanding on Saturday, there is a reason he's been named in many of pundits best team of the opening weekend.

Anyway, all about opinions and I guess if you think Russell isn't on the top 10 fly half's in world rugby, you'll be in a serious minority.
		
Click to expand...

Apart from the 2 kicks that resulted in the Penalty Try, he didn't seem to do anything 'outstanding' to me. Unless, of course, you consider being (at least slightly) out of position, so allowing his opposite number (Marcus Smith) to score a 'simple' try! In fact, I think Smith had the better overall game of the two.
The 'player' that had the best game imo though, was the Scottish pack, who countered the, normally dominant, English one magnificently! Will be interesting to see how they (and England) contend with the French one!


----------



## Val (Feb 8, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Happy to be in that minority.

I was actually supporting Scotland on Saturday (though I won't be, next weekend ) but, while he did many things very well, I still think Finn was up & down, performance-wise. Six or possibly seven out of ten. A sharper England might have taken advantage of his risky play on a couple of occasions. Still, Gregor must rate him highly given - if I remember correctly - he's the only out & out stand-off in the squad. Only utility backs like Blair Kinghorn to cover.

Does that mean the Scottish stand-off cupboard is bare? I was surprised Adam Hastings didn't make the squad. I don't watch a lot of English Premership rugby so I don't know whether he's been injured, not getting game time or simply out of form but I remember him being a good player for Glasgow, pre-Covid. Speaking of Glasgow, Ross Thompson seems a decent prospect. Still young though.
		
Click to expand...

The cupboard most definitely isn't bare  Kinghorn and Thompson are both in very good form as is Hastings.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 8, 2022)

Val said:



			The cupboard most definitely isn't bare  Kinghorn and Thompson are both in very good form as is Hastings.
		
Click to expand...

Agree that they're all good players. I think of Blair Kinghorn as a full-back, however, I know he's capable of playing in several positions. I'm surprised there isn't a specialist back-up in the squad though, given there are some good choices available.


----------



## Val (Feb 8, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Agree that they're all good players. I think of Blair Kinghorn as a full-back, however, I know he's capable of playing in several positions. I'm surprised there isn't a specialist back-up in the squad though, given there are some good choices available.
		
Click to expand...

Hastings first off the rank if Russell gets injured, Thompson retained for club duties but will likely train with the squad


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 10, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Agree that they're all good players. I think of Blair Kinghorn as a full-back, however, I know he's capable of playing in several positions. I'm surprised there isn't a specialist back-up in the squad though, given there are some good choices available.
		
Click to expand...

Thomson looks as good, if not better, a prospect as Marcus Smith ...........IMVHO.
Never really taken to Hastings at No 10
Like our football team and Pro golfers, it is a rare treat to see a bit of strength in depth.


----------



## Val (Feb 10, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Thomson looks as good, if not better, a prospect as Marcus Smith ...........IMVHO.
Never really taken to Hastings at No 10
Like our football team and Pro golfers, it is a rare treat to see a bit of strength in depth.
		
Click to expand...

Smith is the real deal, shame that Jones will tear every shred of flamboyance out him, as will his reported replacement, Cockerell.


----------



## Val (Feb 10, 2022)

Let's talk England scrum half's. I think its shocking there has been no forward plqning by the RFU and Jones for the 9 shirt. I like Youngs but after that there ain't much there. RFU have allowed Scotland to take both White and Velacott away from under them when they are screaming for young talent no replace Youngs.

Discuss


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 11, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Thomson looks as good, if not better, a prospect as Marcus Smith ...........IMVHO.
Never really taken to Hastings at No 10
Like our football team and Pro golfers, it is a rare treat to see a bit of strength in depth.
		
Click to expand...

I've enjoyed watching Thompson play in the URC. Has a cool head but isn't afraid to try something if he thinks it's on.

Scotland's team selection was very interesting. An entirely new front row. Looks like Gregor's expecting a nip & tuck sixty minutes and is hopeful that his more mobile forwards will make a difference from the bench. Canny move. He may well be right.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Feb 11, 2022)

Val said:



			Let's talk England scrum half's. I think its shocking there has been no forward plqning by the RFU and Jones for the 9 shirt. I like Youngs but after that there ain't much there. RFU have allowed Scotland to take both White and Velacott away from under them when they are screaming for young talent no replace Youngs.

Discuss
		
Click to expand...

I disagree on your assessment of Youngs, he should have been put out to pasture years ago. His decent performances don't excuse the other 5 or 6 terrible ones that tend to follow. If you're going to play Smith at 10 you need snappy, quick ball (à la Care) and Youngs has a terrible habit of meerkatting and then crabbing before passing.

I do agree that its one area that Jones has been woeful at blooding new, young players in. He ignored Robson at his peak, brought in Willi Heinz for the world Cup at age 31 or whatever he was, and has generally refused to drop Youngs even when he's been playing terrible.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 11, 2022)

Val said:



			Let's talk England scrum half's. I think its shocking there has been no forward plqning by the RFU and Jones for the 9 shirt. I like Youngs but after that there ain't much there. RFU have allowed Scotland to take both White and Velacott away from under them when they are screaming for young talent no replace Youngs.

Discuss
		
Click to expand...

Jones should have left Youngs out 

It’s time to give Randall a go - he has been one of the best scrum halves in the Prem over the last 18 months 

Then have the likes of Mitchell and then Raffe with Mitchell on the bench


----------



## GB72 (Feb 11, 2022)

Val said:



			Let's talk England scrum half's. I think its shocking there has been no forward plqning by the RFU and Jones for the 9 shirt. I like Youngs but after that there ain't much there. RFU have allowed Scotland to take both White and Velacott away from under them when they are screaming for young talent no replace Youngs.

Discuss
		
Click to expand...

White is a good scrum half but not sure that he would have been our way forward. JVP was keeping out of the Tigers team there are other options around. I think he was unlucky in that he as playing second fiddle to Youngs for club and country but a very good player and I am glad he is doing well for Scotland. Tigers fans were sad to see him go but we had too much competition for the 9 shirt. 

On the England front, nice to see that we have picked the team this week who should have played last week. Also great to see another young Tiger, Ollie Chessum get on the bench. Another one for the long term with the benefit of being able to play in the second row or on the flank.


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 11, 2022)

England plump for the back line they should have had last weekend, players in their proper position 👏


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 11, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			England plump for the back line they should have had last weekend, players in their proper position 👏
		
Click to expand...

Don't watch much of  the Guinness Premiership. Harry Randall any good?


----------



## JamesR (Feb 11, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Don't watch much of  the Guinness Premiership. Harry Randall any good?
		
Click to expand...

Yes very, quick to the breakdown, snappy distribution, and a danger around the fringe.


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 11, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Yes very, quick to the breakdown, snappy distribution, and a danger around the fringe.
		
Click to expand...

I would say his box kicking needs some work, but Young's was awful last week so no lose there with this selection.
Him or Raffi have to be the two 9's at the world cup so blood them now.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 11, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			I would say his box kicking needs some work, but Young's was awful last week so no lose there with this selection.
Him or Raffi have to be the two 9's at the world cup so blood them now.
		
Click to expand...

Good point.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 11, 2022)

Italy sneaked past England in the U20's this evening. Wow!


----------



## GB72 (Feb 12, 2022)

After the Tigers win tonight no result this weekend could wipe the smile off my face. Going to be supporting Scotland and Ireland tomorrow.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 12, 2022)

Predictions:

England by three scores (after a real arm wrestle for 3/4 of the game).
Scotland by seven (hopefully I'm wrong on this one).
France by ten.


----------



## Imurg (Feb 12, 2022)

Only time I like to see Wales win is when they're playing Scotland......

I feel dirty...


----------



## JamesR (Feb 12, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Italy sneaked past England in the U20's this evening. Wow!
		
Click to expand...

I think they were helped by having a team full of first team players. Whereas England were all, or virtually all, from  academies.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 12, 2022)

Don't you love Karma....


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 12, 2022)

This won't go down well but...do the mercurial good things outweigh the mistakes Russell makes? Within 16 minutes he'd kicked out on the full by some margin and missed touch from a penalty. Both hugely costly.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 12, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Only time I like to see Wales win is when they're playing Scotland......

I feel dirty...

Click to expand...

Another game that looked too much like Rugby League for my taste, but a deserved win for Wales - especially after last week's shambles!
Looking forward to France v Ireland and hoping for a bit more 'flow'. I'm inclined to think the winner of this game will be the 6N winner, so pretty key! Oh and France have started the better!!


----------



## Imurg (Feb 12, 2022)

Game on!


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 12, 2022)

Heck of a start


----------



## Captainron (Feb 12, 2022)

Yup. This could be awesome


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 12, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Game on!
		
Click to expand...




Captainron said:



			Yup. This could be awesome
		
Click to expand...

Agreed! Proper modern Rugby!
I wonder if they can keep it up!


----------



## Captainron (Feb 12, 2022)

Getting very interesting now. Ireland have upped their game big time this half


----------



## Val (Feb 13, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			This won't go down well but...do the mercurial good things outweigh the mistakes Russell makes? Within 16 minutes he'd kicked out on the full by some margin and missed touch from a penalty. Both hugely costly.
		
Click to expand...

He had a shocker yesterday


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 13, 2022)

Val said:



			He had a shocker yesterday
		
Click to expand...

Didn't someone say he was the best no10 in the 6N?...


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 13, 2022)

Val said:



			He had a shocker yesterday
		
Click to expand...

Serious question. Is his attitude right when it's going wrong? He laughed off the early errors, which can be a defense mechanism, but I'm not sure it's what I'd expect to see...


----------



## Imurg (Feb 13, 2022)

I guess Smith will be coming off in a few minutes then......


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 13, 2022)

Yep, Finn Russell is better than Marcus Smith..

Someone should stick to other sports


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2022)

Randall was excellent and disappointing that Jones couldn’t resist bringing on Youngs , let him and Smith have the full 80 , you aren’t going to learn anything new from bringing on Youngs


----------



## HeftyHacker (Feb 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Randall was excellent and disappointing that Jones couldn’t resist bringing on Youngs , let him and Smith have the full 80 , you aren’t going to learn anything new from bringing on Youngs
		
Click to expand...

Especially when Youngs does a Youngs and knocks it on at a ruck within 2 mins of being on.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			Especially when Youngs does a Youngs and knocks it on at a ruck within 2 mins of being on.
		
Click to expand...

and kicks when we have good attacking ball 🤦🏻‍♂️


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 13, 2022)

HeftyHacker said:



			Especially when Youngs does a Youngs and knocks it on at a ruck within 2 mins of being on.
		
Click to expand...

It’s no surprise that its all slowed down since he came on 

Lost all momentum and the game has just fizzled out 

One day Jones will stop being “safe”


----------



## JamesR (Feb 13, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It’s no surprise that its all slowed down since he came on

Lost all momentum and the game has just fizzled out

One day Jones will stop being “safe”
		
Click to expand...

Would have loved to have seen Quirke come on, to run at that tiring Iti’ defence.


----------



## Val (Feb 13, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			Serious question. Is his attitude right when it's going wrong? He laughed off the early errors, which can be a defense mechanism, but I'm not sure it's what I'd expect to see...
		
Click to expand...

Hes always been like that, laughs it off. To be fair, there's few 10's could have delivered that pass for Graham's try yesterday. You get the good with the bad, I knew after his kick out in the full and missed touch that he was for an off day with the boot.


----------



## Val (Feb 13, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Didn't someone say he was the best no10 in the 6N?...
		
Click to expand...

Yip, me and many others more qualified to say so. Everyone can have an off day, even the best.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 13, 2022)

Val said:



			Hes always been like that, laughs it off. To be fair, there's few 10's could have delivered that pass for Graham's try yesterday. You get the good with the bad, I knew after his kick out in the full and missed touch that he was for an off day with the boot.
		
Click to expand...

Bet Ellis Genge could have delivered that pass 😁😁😁😁


----------



## Val (Feb 13, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Bet Ellis Genge could have delivered that pass 😁😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 13, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Bet Ellis Genge could have delivered that pass 😁😁😁😁
		
Click to expand...

On Ellis Genge, did anyone see how quickly he called for medical help for the Italian today after he tackled him?
Top man.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 14, 2022)

Scathing report here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/60367487
Not certain I agree it was that bad though.


----------



## BrianM (Feb 14, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Scathing report here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/60367487
Not certain I agree it was that bad though.
		
Click to expand...

Its probably a fair assessment, Scotland were their own worst enemy on Saturday.
They were everything they weren't the week before, it was a great chance to beat a Wales side not at there strongest.
You don't mind a defeat if you get beat giving everything, Scotland just looked a mile off it.
Hopefully get a reaction against France, but they will be big favourites in my opinion.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 14, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Its probably a fair assessment, Scotland were their own worst enemy on Saturday.
They were everything they weren't the week before, it was a great chance to beat a Wales side not at there strongest.
You don't mind a defeat if you get beat giving everything, Scotland just looked a mile off it.
Hopefully get a reaction against France, but they will be big favourites in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

I can't see France losing a game this year, though I don't think there'll be huge margins in any matches. I hope I'm wrong and Scotland beat them at Murrayfield as that'll make for a great 'finale' against England at Twickenham. France certainly play the sort of all round game that I find the most attractive to watch, but it can also result in over-enthusiasm and blunders!


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Feb 14, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Its probably a fair assessment, Scotland were their own worst enemy on Saturday.
They were everything they weren't the week before, it was a great chance to beat a Wales side not at there strongest.
You don't mind a defeat if you get beat giving everything, Scotland just looked a mile off it.
Hopefully get a reaction against France, but they will be big favourites in my opinion.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps they should have pretended they were playing England again...


----------



## Val (Feb 14, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Scathing report here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/60367487
Not certain I agree it was that bad though.
		
Click to expand...

He calls it as he sees it. Tom English is normally pragmatic but his assessment is probably justified. I've never been so disappointed after a defeat than I was on Saturday, even last years loss to Wales at home was easier to take.

We dust ourselves down and prepare for France and give as good an account of ourselves last we can. If we play as we did in Wales against France they'll stick 50 on us, I've no doubt.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 14, 2022)

BrianM said:



			Instead of trolling, at least come up with something original, we get you hate Scotland, probably says more about you though with that attitude.
		
Click to expand...

Meow!


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 16, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			This won't go down well but...do the mercurial good things outweigh the mistakes Russell makes? Within 16 minutes he'd kicked out on the full by some margin and missed touch from a penalty. Both hugely costly.
		
Click to expand...

This is why I don't rate him as highly as many. He's often sublime - that vast pass for Scotland's opening try, for example - but he's too mercurial and prone to hot-headedness too, especially away from Murrayfield. Three cards -two yellows & a red - in his last seven Six Nations appearances.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 16, 2022)

After being away at the weekend, I've finally caught up with the matches.

Delighted with Wales' win over Scotland, given the respective opening performances of the teams. We reverted to Warren-ball and it worked. Our attacking play wasn't fab but our pack went well, happily. Still think Scotland have some big performances in them. An open, running game at Murrayfield might suit them as much as France. Think they'll go well.

Speaking of France, the Ireland game was excellent harem scarem fun, with Ireland ultimately paying for a slow start. As good as France were in patches, their tendency to switch off gives everyone a smidgeon of chance, I reckon.

Another day at the office for England in Italy. Made Italy look very poor. Harry Randall looks like a really good player as does Marcus Smith. If their partnership stands up to the scrutiny of better sides, England might go well for the rest of the championship, especially with Manu Overboard to come back in at centre. Fun fact both starting scrum halves are fluent Welsh speakers.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 16, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			After being away at the weekend, I've finally caught up with the matches.

Delighted with Wales' win over Scotland, given the respective opening performances of the teams. We reverted to Warren-ball and it worked. Our attacking play wasn't fab but our pack went well, happily. Still think Scotland have some big performances in them. An open, running game at Murrayfield might suit them as much as France. Think they'll go well.

Speaking of France, the Ireland game was excellent harem scarem fun, with Ireland ultimately paying for a slow start. As good as France were in patches, their tendency to switch off gives everyone a smidgeon of chance, I reckon.

Another day at the office for England in Italy. Made Italy look very poor. Harry Randall looks like a really good player as does Marcus Smith. If their partnership stands up to the scrutiny of better sides, England might go well for the rest of the championship, especially with Manu Overboard to come back in at centre. Fun fact both starting scrum halves are fluent Welsh speakers. 

Click to expand...

What you mean the 10 minutes or so that we will have Manu before he gete crocked again. Horrible to say but am glad that Sale are paying his huge salary and medical bills now and not Tigers. I suspect that we are not far off paying Kelly, Scott and Moroni the same each year as we used to spend on Many alone. Plus, why is Scott not in the Scotland squad, having a great season for us.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 16, 2022)

GB72 said:



			What you mean the 10 minutes or so that we will have Manu before he gete crocked again. Horrible to say but am glad that Sale are paying his huge salary and medical bills now and not Tigers. I suspect that we are not far off paying Kelly, Scott and Moroni the same each year as we used to spend on Many alone. Plus, why is Scott not in the Scotland squad, having a great season for us.
		
Click to expand...

Manu's been fragile, that's for sure. Great player though. No idea why Matt Scott's not been picked. Age against him, maybe?


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 18, 2022)

The Torygragh are suggesting that The Springboks are being lined-up to replace Italy from the 2025 Six Nations. Not sure that's a good idea, however poor the Azzuri have been over the last few years.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 18, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			The Torygragh are suggesting that The Springboks are being lined-up to replace Italy from the 2025 Six Nations. Not sure that's a good idea, however poor the Azzuri have been over the last few years.
		
Click to expand...

6N and CVC have issued a statement today saying that is not the case. Something does need to be done about Italy though, they are just not developing despite all of the opportunities. Time for a play off between the bottom team and the winner of the Tier below for a place in the 6 nations for 3 years.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 18, 2022)

GB72 said:



			6N and CVC have issued a statement today saying that is not the case. Something does need to be done about Italy though, they are just not developing despite all of the opportunities. Time for a play off between the bottom team and the winner of the Tier below for a place in the 6 nations for 3 years.
		
Click to expand...

Good news if they are not spinning us a line.

Italy have some good young players coming through but whether they will add up to a strong national team, only time will tell. I'd be for a chance for other teams breaking through via a play-off though.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 18, 2022)

GB72 said:



			6N and CVC have issued a statement today saying that is not the case. Something does need to be done about Italy though, they are just not developing despite all of the opportunities. Time for a play off between the bottom team and the winner of the Tier below for a place in the 6 nations for 3 years.
		
Click to expand...

I'd support something along those lines.
Italy is not actually the top ranked 'other' nation in 'Europe' currently. Georgia is 1 place above them.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2022)

GB72 said:



			6N and CVC have issued a statement today saying that is not the case. Something does need to be done about Italy though, they are just not developing despite all of the opportunities. Time for a play off between the bottom team and the winner of the Tier below for a place in the 6 nations for 3 years.
		
Click to expand...

Agree that there should be a playoff -  not sure how often ? Is 3 years too short ?


----------



## GB72 (Feb 18, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Agree that there should be a playoff -  not sure how often ? Is 3 years too short ?
		
Click to expand...

Tough one, need chance to develop but also do not want a closed shop for too long. If teams are serious about holding a place at a premium tournament, they should show willing to invest before they are promoted. Don't forget, they would need to have reached the standard of the lowest place in the 6 Nations just to get in so would then have 3 years to try and push on. Personally I think that, with the rise of the Argentinian team stopping Italy poaching players has they have done in the past and, already, an unwillingness for ex England players to change allegiances, rugby would all but disappear in Italy if the 6 Nations were taken away, the country are just not that interested whereas rugby is growing and growing in Eastern Europe.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 18, 2022)

Definitely think Italy need to fight for their place. They have a shocking 6N record and so if there place at the big table is under threat perhaps they'll change things. There is some clear talent and some good players out there. My only concern is would Georgia or whoever came up be any different? The home nations seem to win with "relative" ease at world cups against these second tier sides so aside from the financial rewards is there any benefit to a promotion/relegation for the bottom side?


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 24, 2022)

Teams for Twickenham announced. Tasty looking England side, with Lawes & Manu back. Faletau's on board for for us which, if he's back up to speed, is good news but I reckon we're clear second favourites if that England back-line clicks. Fingers crossed though.

Interesting that both captains are from Northampton. That's got to be rare, if not unique.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Teams for Twickenham announced. Tasty looking England side, with Lawes & Manu back. Faletau's on board for for us which, if he's back up to speed, is good news but I reckon we're clear second favourites if that England back-line clicks. Fingers crossed though.

Interesting that both captains are from Northampton. That's got to be rare, if not unique.
		
Click to expand...

Looking forward to this one. Manu and Faletau both have similar question marks, are they up to speed and how long before they break again. Think Manu has slightly more game time so that is a plus. Glad with stuck with the same scrum half as we need to start transitioning from Youngs, Lawes is a big return for us. Should be a cracking day's rugby. Plan to take to the sofa at 2.00 and that is me done until the evening.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 24, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Looking forward to this one. Manu and Faletau both have similar question marks, are they up to speed and how long before they break again. Think Manu has slightly more game time so that is a plus. Glad with stuck with the same scrum half as we need to start transitioning from Youngs, Lawes is a big return for us. Should be a cracking day's rugby. Plan to take to the sofa at 2.00 and that is me done until the evening.
		
Click to expand...

Planning something similar though I may well be hiding behind, rather than sitting on, my sofa. 

Looks like you've cracked the half-back weaknesses that have held you back for the last season or two. With a decent pack and a special looking set of backs, England are on the brink of being a really strong side. You may well be rueing a bad day at the office at Murrayfield, come the end of the championship.

Sadly, Wales are currently looking clueless behind the scrum so even if - and I think we will - gain parity upfront, we're unlikely to capitalize on it. My hope is that we turn it into a slugfest and kick enough points to sneak over the line. Highly doubtful though.

Looking forward to it, nonetheless!


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Feb 24, 2022)

If you are bottom of the 6N League for three years on the trot I think the top team in the Europe league should be promoted


----------



## JamesR (Feb 24, 2022)

Tuilagi out 🤬


----------



## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Tuilagi out 🤬
		
Click to expand...

Not the biggest of shocks. Glad sale have his wages and medical bills to cover. He needed a season of club rugby under his belt before even thinking about England


----------



## JamesR (Feb 24, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Not the biggest of shocks. Glad sale have his wages and medical bills to cover. He needed a season of club rugby under his belt before even thinking about England
		
Click to expand...

He’s had what, 2.5 games for Sale since his return?

But he’s so destructive, and can play so rarely , that you have to feel that if he’s able England should use him.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 24, 2022)

JamesR said:



			He’s had what, 2.5 games for Sale since his return?

But he’s so destructive, and can play so rarely , that you have to feel that if he’s able England should use him.
		
Click to expand...

Trouble is they rush him back without testing his fitness. Staying at the club and building his fitness may have helped in the long term


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 25, 2022)

From a Welsh point of view, I'm a tad relieved that Manu's out but it's always grim when a world class player like him misses games like these. Poor fellow seems to be made of glass, these days. Hope it's not too serious this time, anyway.

Any news on a replacement? I see that Joe Marchant's back in the squad but I'm not sure he'll go straight into the 15.


----------



## GB72 (Feb 25, 2022)

EJ needs to come take a look at Dan Kelly at Tigers. Great young player and an actual 12 (think we have 3 number 13s in the England Squad at the moment).


----------



## Val (Feb 25, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			If you are bottom of the 6N League for three years on the trot I think the top team in the Europe league should be promoted
		
Click to expand...

Never happen


----------



## Val (Feb 25, 2022)

2 dynamic 7's for Scotland tomorrow, not sure that backrow balance is right but we'll see. Weather permitting, I believe we'll see a free flowing game. Scotland need their A+ game tomorrow


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 25, 2022)

Val said:



			2 dynamic 7's for Scotland tomorrow, not sure that backrow balance is right but we'll see. Weather permitting, I believe we'll see a free flowing game. Scotland need their A+ game tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Looking forward to it.

I agree that it looks like an exciting one. With two sets of backs that like to chuck it about a bit, I think the teams might well share sixty or seventy points, especially with the Met Office forecasting a dry day.


----------



## Val (Feb 25, 2022)

France U20's boys look tidy, saw off our boys with 14 men for most of the game then 13 last 10.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 25, 2022)

Val said:



			2 dynamic 7's for Scotland tomorrow, not sure that backrow balance is right but we'll see. Weather permitting, I believe we'll see a free flowing game. Scotland need their A+ game tomorrow
		
Click to expand...

Forced change for Scotland https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/60509613
France at home will be tough. In fact, I'm picking them to win by more than 7. I don't think it'll be a 'pretty' 1st half either.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2022)

France looking a bit lively


----------



## Neilds (Feb 26, 2022)

Wouldn’t like to run into the French No 3 in a dark alley - 24 stone!!! And quite quick off the mark


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Feb 26, 2022)

Neilds said:



			Wouldn’t like to run into the French No 3 in a dark alley - 24 stone!!! And quite quick off the mark
		
Click to expand...

I'd avoid most rugby players in a dark alley to be fair but for him I'd certainly cross the road 😄.

Cracking game, Scotland have come back well.


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 26, 2022)

Missed opportunity for Scotland with a 4 to 1 and have paid the price 9 down at HT 😭


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Doh! Why did I think France were at home! All the same, they are playing classic French style. Scotland are playng pretty well too, though just not taking their opportunities.
Best game of the 6Ns so far and, as a neutral, I hope it continues in the same style.


----------



## Imurg (Feb 26, 2022)

For all the good Hogg does he seems more than capable of cancelling himself out with the errors he makes...


----------



## IanM (Feb 26, 2022)

This is very entertaining... my money on Scotland has gone down the gurgler, but some great stuff going on.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

After a game played in my preferred style, we're back to the staid, 'Rugby League' style of play! Technically 'interesting' perhaps. But, for me unattractive! Marcus Smith likely to have a significant impact on the result.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 26, 2022)

France look phenomenal. I stick with my prediction of a French grand slam wrapped up beautifully with a thrashing of the poms in Paris 🤞


----------



## Imurg (Feb 26, 2022)

Captainron said:



			France look phenomenal. I stick with my prediction of a French grand slam wrapped up beautifully with a thrashing of the poms in Paris 🤞
		
Click to expand...

Hard to see a different outcome....


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

This is a shocking game


----------



## Imurg (Feb 26, 2022)

Yeah but at least we're winning....for now...


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

The 50 -22; I wonder where they stole that from then...


----------



## Imurg (Feb 26, 2022)

Looking at this you do wonder how we evolved from World Cup winners into this......


----------



## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Looking at this you do wonder how we evolved from World Cup winners into this......
		
Click to expand...

I don't remember England playing attractive rugby to win the world cup


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Captainron said:



			France look phenomenal. I stick with my prediction of a French grand slam wrapped up beautifully with a thrashing of the poms in Paris 🤞
		
Click to expand...

I can't see anything else. The early win over Ireland was (and likely will have been) the toughest test imo.


----------



## Imurg (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			I don't remember England playing attractive rugby to win the world cup
		
Click to expand...

OK...but they won it.
This lot haven't got a cat in hell's chance.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			The 50 -22; I wonder where they stole that from then... 

Click to expand...

Excellent rule change imo!


----------



## Captainron (Feb 26, 2022)

Genge is quick for a fat lad.


----------



## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

Imurg said:



			OK...but they won it.
		
Click to expand...

Don't we know it.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 26, 2022)

This ref is awful - contributing to the poorness of the game , just no flow at all apart from about 10 mins from whales

Why didn’t he yellow card him if it’s a deliberate knock on 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Dando (Feb 26, 2022)

The red hasn’t allowed any quick taps until the last few minutes and wales score from it


----------



## Blue in Munich (Feb 26, 2022)

Dando said:



			The red hasn’t allowed any quick taps until the last few minutes and wales score from it
		
Click to expand...

The most consistent thing about him is his inconsistency.


----------



## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

When was the last time a deliberate knock on wasn't a yellow?


----------



## Piece (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			When was the last time a deliberate knock on wasn't a yellow?
		
Click to expand...

About three minutes ago 👍😉


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Dando said:



			The red hasn’t allowed any quick taps until the last few minutes and wales score from it
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps because it was the only one taken from a correct place?


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			When was the last time a deliberate knock on wasn't a yellow?
		
Click to expand...

When it wasn't a deliberate knock on...


----------



## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			When it wasn't a deliberate knock on...
		
Click to expand...

yeah ok.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			When was the last time a deliberate knock on wasn't a yellow?
		
Click to expand...

Quite likely ANY time it was done when it was unlikely that a try would be scored in that phase of play!


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This ref is awful - contributing to the poorness of the game , just no flow at all apart from about 10 mins from whales

Why didn’t he yellow card him if it’s a deliberate knock on 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Check the rules/clarifications! It's only a Yellow card if there was a good chance a Try would have been scored has the pass been completed!


----------



## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Quite likely ANY time it was done when it was unlikely that a try would be scored in that phase of play!
		
Click to expand...

Nope, its a deliberate (cynical) penalty which should be a yellow card.


----------



## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 26, 2022)

Maybe we should have a blame the ref thread to keep football and rugby fans happy...


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			Nope, its a deliberate (cynical) penalty which should be a yellow card.
		
Click to expand...

Twaddle!
Click the 'video link' in clause 3 of this link!
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/11


----------



## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

saving_par said:



			Maybe we should have a blame the ref thread to keep football and rugby fans happy...
		
Click to expand...

I'm not blameing the ref (although he was very poor), for 60 minutes I couldn't see what we were trying to do with the ball and giving away stupid penalties, so we didn't deserve to win.


----------



## greenone (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Twaddle!
Click the 'video link' in clause 3 of this link!
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/11

Click to expand...

Yes very good, however that is not how it's been refereed for the last 5+ years.

Edit: if its is stopping an attack it is a yellow, if it is stopping a likely try it is a yellow and a penalty try.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			Yes very good, however that is not how it's been refereed for the last 5+ years.
		
Click to expand...

You’re a bit too new to the forum to realise that Foxholer knows everything about everything, and has never yet been wrong.
A legend in his own living room


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			Yes very good, however that is not how it's been refereed for the last 5+ years.
		
Click to expand...

I believe it's exactly how it has been! Just somewhat unusual to have such instances so far away from try line - as normally an act of 'desperation'!
Up to you to provide vid examples of DKOs that result in Yellow card where try not likely to be scored - or admit your error!


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

AmandaJR said:





greenone said:



			When was the last time *a deliberate knock* on wasn't a yellow?
		
Click to expand...

When it *wasn't a deliberate knock on*...
		
Click to expand...

Impossible!


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

JamesR said:



			You’re a bit too new to the forum to realise that Foxholer knows everything about everything, and has never yet been wrong.
...
		
Click to expand...

Utter twaddle! And I'm quite prepared to admit errors.
But I'm right on this one! Fancy a wager about it rather than simply making snidey comments?


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

greenone said:



			...

Edit: if its is stopping an attack it is a yellow, if it is stopping a likely try it is a yellow and a penalty try.
		
Click to expand...

Surely it's always 'stopping an attack' - even from near own goal line!


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 26, 2022)

Tbh I'm not combined it was even a deliberate knock on. The ball brushed Lawes' static hand and continued on its existing path. Big difference between that and someone patting the ball to the floor or out off the hands of the attacking team.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Feb 26, 2022)

Another clunk performance and a world away from being realistic WC contenders even playing ugly. France though seem to be purring right now. Could they upset the southern hemisphere sides and win it?


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 26, 2022)

If it started today, you'd be backing France, Ireland and South Africa, with England an outside bet. I don't think we are that far away from a good side - start Marler for stability, and find a plan B to break the gain line when Manu is injured and we're pretty close, especially with one of the wings carrying some pace (I see Malins as covering the Ford spot on the bench with Radwan, Lynagh, Cocanasiga, May, whoever adding some whizz)


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			Tbh I'm not combined it was even a deliberate knock on. The ball brushed Lawes' static hand and continued on its existing path. Big difference between that and someone patting the ball to the floor or out off the hands of the attacking team.
		
Click to expand...

I'm likewise unconvinced. Though both the linesman (probably) and the TMO deemed that it was, so there may be some finer interpretation/definition involved.


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Another clunk performance and a world away from being realistic WC contenders even playing ugly. France though seem to be purring right now. Could they upset the southern hemisphere sides and win it?
		
Click to expand...

Did you even watch the game? All of the  ball no cutting edge m. Better than no ball, & no cutting edge. Stick to golf/cricket/darts/covid & everything else you can cut & paste about


----------



## Captainron (Feb 26, 2022)

To be fair. England have the bones of a superb squad for the World Cup next year. Another year of play under their belts without major injury issues and they could be in the running again. Got some proper gun players in there now.


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

Captainron said:



			To be fair. England have the bones of a superb squad for the World Cup next year. Another year of play under their belts without major injury issues and they could be in the running again. Got some proper gun players in there now.
		
Click to expand...

England irritate me. All the tools, no end product.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			England irritate me. All the tools, no end product.
		
Click to expand...

Much like this forum?


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			Face it foxy. It’s not hockey. Despite living in NZ 30 years ago you know .... about Rugby. *Leave it to us that have played & watch regularly*. It’s ok to be ignorant. synopsis direct from HQ. England rank…. Wales never in it
		
Click to expand...

That'll include me then!
Do you also want to lose a wager on that ruling? 
FWIW, Hockey rules have changed massively since I played and umpired - far more fundamentally than Rugby ones have imo.
I pretty much agree with the synopsis, if perhaps a bit harsh on Wales.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			If it started today, you'd be backing France, Ireland and South Africa, with England an outside bet. I don't think we are that far away from a good side - start Marler for stability, and find a plan B to break the gain line when Manu is injured and we're pretty close, especially with one of the wings carrying some pace (I see Malins as covering the Ford spot on the bench with Radwan, Lynagh, Cocanasiga, May, whoever adding some whizz)
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rate England that high on their performances in 6N! Definitely France and South Africa. Ireland best of the 6N. 
But WC is a different beast - where depth of squad is an important factor, so England will likely improve from the current turgid style and Ireland likely to fade. NZ (and Aus) haven't really started their build-up so hard to tell how they'll perform.


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That'll include me then!
Do you also want to lose a wager on that ruling?
FWIW, Hockey rules have changed massively since I played and umpired - far more fundamentally than Rugby ones have imo.
I pretty much agree with the synopsis, if perhaps a bit harsh on Wales.
		
Click to expand...

 what position. Foxy? For my info. For my mental image!! We’re all entitled to our own opinion. Based on playing only a one that is valid is @Swingalot he was a playa!!


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			what position. Foxy? For my info. For my mental image!! We’re all entitled to our own opinion. Based on playing on one that is valid is @Swingalot he was a playa!!
		
Click to expand...

11 thru 14, though 1st (bad) experience was 15.
What about that wager btw? I'll send my winnings to H4H!


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

Not even sure what ruling we are taking about? Difficult to be objective in the stadium after a full days hospitality.  Did wales win?


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			11 thru 14, though 1st (bad) experience was 15.
What about that wager btw? I'll send my winnings to H4H!
		
Click to expand...

I’ve heard about your HFH wagers 🤣


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			Not even sure what ruling we are taking about? Difficult to be objective in the stadium after a full days hospitality.  Did wales win?
		
Click to expand...

No, but I think they’ve gone back to their old “moral victory” days!


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			I’ve heard about your HFH wagers 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Anyone need a caddy?


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			I’ve heard about your HFH wagers 🤣
		
Click to expand...

Ooh. A stalker?
I can't remember losing one!
James<chicken>R seems to have gone quiet on the wager too! The 'All mouth; No trousers' saying spings to mind!


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

What wager is he on about?


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Ooh. A stalker?
I can't remember losing one!
James<chicken>R seems to have gone quiet on the wager too! The 'All mouth; No trousers' saying spings to mind!
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what wager we’re on about. Sumo wrestle in all the kit? U, homie, Paul 87 & the rest?


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

JamesR said:



			What wager is he on about?
		
Click to expand...

£20 (donated to H4H) says penalty for 'deliberate knock-on' does not require Yellow card! @Leftitshort


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			£20 (donated to H4H) says penalty for 'deliberate knock-on' does not require Yellow card!
		
Click to expand...

How do you prove that? Game is over, no yellow card? I like the sumo option


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			£20 (donated to H4H) says penalty for 'deliberate knock-on' does not require Yellow card! @Leftitshort

Click to expand...

When did I say it did?


Feel free to put £20 in the pot. I’m sure Richart will be grateful


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			How do you prove that? Game is over, no yellow card? I like the sumo option
		
Click to expand...

🐔🐔🐔


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

JamesR said:



			When did I say it did?
...
		
Click to expand...

🐔🐔🐔


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			🐔🐔🐔
		
Click to expand...

🛎🔚


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			🐔🐔🐔
		
Click to expand...

If you’re going to accuse someone of a statement, perhaps, to use your own m o, you should prove it.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

JamesR said:



			If you’re going to accuse someone of a statement, perhaps, to use your own m o, you should prove it.
		
Click to expand...

🐔🐔🐔


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			🐔🐔🐔
		
Click to expand...

Can’t prove it eh!
Just proving everyone who thinks you’re an idiot correct 👏


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			🐔🐔🐔
		
Click to expand...

Still not sure. Game is over, was it a yellow? Only one way to settle! Sumo 🐔


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 26, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Can’t prove it eh!
Just proving everyone who thinks you’re an idiot correct 👏
		
Click to expand...

It wasn't something you posted, so nothing to prove. It was my wager that I was correct - that you haven't taken up. Thus the 🐔🐔🐔


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			It wasn't something you posted, so nothing to prove. It was my wager that I was correct - that you haven't taken up. Thus the 🐔🐔🐔
		
Click to expand...

I don’t understand…have you been drinking?
You’re talking more rubbish than the forums other Walter Mitty!


----------



## Leftitshort (Feb 26, 2022)

I’ll take it up. Settle by sumo?


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			I’ll take it up. Settle by sumo?
		
Click to expand...

Careful, he probably competed at the highest level during his days in Kyoto 🤥


----------



## IanM (Feb 26, 2022)

Nice to see some rugby chat.   The Welsh lads on my WhatsApp group seem to have gone awol


----------



## JamesR (Feb 26, 2022)

IanM said:



			Nice to see some rugby chat.   The Welsh lads on my WhatsApp group seem to have gone awol
		
Click to expand...

England winning ugly is always a good day for Rugby chat.

Surprised your Welsh mates aren’t claiming the moral victory, based on tries scored.


----------



## IanM (Feb 27, 2022)

JamesR said:



			England winning ugly is always a good day for Rugby chat.

Surprised your Welsh mates aren’t claiming the moral victory, based on tries scored.
		
Click to expand...

That'll be the line next Saturday morning on the 1st tee.

Bbc Wales programming has be knobbled for the week now!  

Gareth Edwards reading the news,  JPR on weather, all off


----------



## FELL75 (Feb 27, 2022)

Thought the ref (Eng Wal) was very picky, he seemed to be the centre of attention rather than the players.


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			This ref is awful - contributing to the poorness of the game , just no flow at all apart from about 10 mins from whales

Why didn’t he yellow card him if it’s a deliberate knock on 🤷‍♂️
		
Click to expand...

Adamson, he's garbage. Always has been and I can't believe he's now an international referee


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 27, 2022)

FELL75 said:



			Thought the ref (Eng Wal) was very picky, he seemed to be the centre of attention rather than the players.
		
Click to expand...

The first half was awful and stop start as he seemed incapable of making an on field decision never mind get control of the scrum. In fact at one stage he said to the video ref "on field decision is...?" - that's you pal!

Seeing that we stupidly go for a scrum when Williams is binned and 3 minutes of the 10 passed with no play. Poor decision for me - take the 3 and then go at them from open play with the full back missing. Frustrating game.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 27, 2022)

I wouldn’t say that either ref yesterday was of international quality


----------



## JamesR (Feb 27, 2022)

Just rewatched the England game, fastforwarding the rubbish.
If you ignore the scrums, which the ref didn’t seem to understand, it was actually quite a good game.
England played bits of very good rugby, with lots of frustration as well.
I think we gave Wales too much width at times, with Adams and Cuthbert making too much easy yardage.
Dombrant is avery intelligent player, and either he or Itoje should have had MOM. But Smith did get the points again.
He’ll be like DuPont, getting MOM more often than not.
Ruck speed was good, a lot of good carrying, especially from Dombrant and Genge, and Steward is looking the part at FB.
Credit to Wales for coming back into it, but they played typical Wales of old. Potential not matched by result.

Much more enjoyable way to watch. For a non-rugby fan it must be so boring to watch all that faffing about.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 27, 2022)

Just finished watching yesterday's games. Enjoyed them both.

Gutted about the result at HQ. Wales have got into a habit of going to Twickenham and just falling short. Lots of naivety from us - spurned kicks at goal, the attempt to run a penalty out of our own 22 rather than take the kick etc - but plenty of signs that we're not quite as bad as I thought we were. 

France were excellent yesterday but the Scotland defence coach will be having nightmares. As good as they looked going forward, they were shambolic on the back foot and not all of that was due to France's sharpness.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 27, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Just rewatched the England game, fastforwarding the rubbish.
If you ignore the scrums, which the ref didn’t seem to understand, it was actually quite a good game.
England played bits of very good rugby, with lots of frustration as well.
I think we gave Wales too much width at times, with Adams and Cuthbert making too much easy yardage.
Dombrant is avery intelligent player, and either he or Itoje should have had MOM. But Smith did get the points again.
He’ll be like DuPont, getting MOM more often than not.
Ruck speed was good, a lot of good carrying, especially from Dombrant and Genge, and Steward is looking the part at FB.
Credit to Wales for coming back into it, but they played typical Wales of old. Potential not matched by result.

Much more enjoyable way to watch. For a non-rugby fan it must be so boring to watch all that faffing about.
		
Click to expand...

I agree with you about Marcus Smith. I like watching him play - already class and with bags of potential to improve - but I thought he had a bit of a shocker yesterday, especially defensively. I think you're right. Dombrandt was England's  best player with Maro not far behind. From a Welsh point of view, I thought Alex Cuthbert and Nicky Tompkins were particularly good.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 27, 2022)

Val said:



			Adamson, he's garbage. Always has been and I can't believe he's now an international referee
		
Click to expand...

He was poor yesterday. Got a lot of things wrong. Thought the England try and one of the Welsh ones were very dodgy and the breakdown was a complete lottery. Don't think I've ever seen so many forward passes  - from both sides - let go, either.

He didn't seem to have a particular bias towards one team though despite what many of my fellow countrymen on social media seem to think.


----------



## AmandaJR (Feb 27, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			I agree with you about Marcus Smith. I like watching him play - already class and with bags of potential to improve - but I thought he had a bit of a shocker yesterday, especially defensively. I think you're right. Dombrandt was England's  best player with Maro not far behind. From a Welsh point of view, I thought Alex Cuthbert and Nicky Tompkins were particularly good.
		
Click to expand...

I like Smith and don't agree he had a shocker BUT he did look a little one dimensional to me. Or maybe that's two - either try a darting run himself or give it to the man on his shoulder. It all became a bit obvious and no grubber kicks, kicks over the top, kicks to a wide man. Maybe it's Jones stifling him a bit...


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 27, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I like Smith and don't agree he had a shocker BUT he did look a little one dimensional to me. Or maybe that's two - either try a darting run himself or give it to the man on his shoulder. It all became a bit obvious and no grubber kicks, kicks over the top, kicks to a wide man. Maybe it's Jones stifling him a bit...
		
Click to expand...

He's a fine player and I thought he was okay on the front foot yesterday but he was ropier in defence than he has been. 

Think he and Randall will become a really formidable half-back unit over the next few seasons though.


----------



## Captainron (Feb 27, 2022)

Oh my word! That is not a bad tackle. Why the heck are they looking at it? Balls to this stupidity!


----------



## JamesR (Feb 27, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			I agree with you about Marcus Smith. I like watching him play - already class and with bags of potential to improve - but I thought he had a bit of a shocker yesterday, especially defensively. I think you're right. Dombrandt was England's  best player with Maro not far behind. From a Welsh point of view, I thought Alex Cuthbert and Nicky Tompkins were particularly good.
		
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t say Smith had a bad game, & definitely not a shocker.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			..Don't think I've ever seen so many forward passes  - from both sides - let go, either.
...
		
Click to expand...

There were certainly a number that went forward wrt the ground, if not the relative to the players positions.
I too wondered about the England try. Ball was definitely short initially, but was simply 'placed' over the line subsequently.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 27, 2022)

JamesR said:



			I wouldn’t say Smith had a bad game, & definitely not a shocker.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah. Shocker was a bit hyperbolic but, as I mentioned above, I thought he was pretty indifferent defensively.


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 27, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			There were certainly a number that went forward wrt the ground, if not the relative to the players positions.
I too wondered about the England try. Ball was definitely short initially, but was simply 'placed' over the line subsequently.
		
Click to expand...

I thought that England's line-out could have been pinged twice, Firstly when Maro encroached before the ball was thrown (a free kick offence) and again when Adam Beard was pushed out of position (penalty). That said, if Wales had got away with those, I'd have been delighted, and things evened up when a knock-on wasn't spotted in the run-up to one of our scores.

Made no difference to the result overall - which I have no beef with - just a swing and a roundabout to confirm that the officiating was pretty poor throughout for both sides.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 27, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			I thought that England's line-out could have been pinged twice, Firstly when Maro encroached before the ball was thrown (a free kick offence) and again when Adam Beard was pushed out of position (penalty). That said, if Wales had got away with those, I'd have been delighted, and things evened up when a knock-on wasn't spotted in the run-up to one of our scores.

Made no difference to the result overall - which I have no beef with - just a swing and a roundabout to confirm that the officiating was pretty poor throughout for both sides.
		
Click to expand...

My biggest concern would be how Beard, supposedly about 20 stone, got pushed so badly by a mere flick of the elbow.
Should have been stronger in his own 22z


----------



## Dando (Feb 27, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			The first half was awful and stop start as he seemed incapable of making an on field decision never mind get control of the scrum. In fact at one stage he said to the video ref "on field decision is...?" - that's you pal!

Seeing that we stupidly go for a scrum when Williams is binned and 3 minutes of the 10 passed with no play. Poor decision for me - take the 3 and then go at them from open play with the full back missing. Frustrating game.
		
Click to expand...

It always amazes me how little game time the sin binned player actually misses


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 27, 2022)

JamesR said:



			My biggest concern would be how Beard, supposedly about 20 stone, got pushed so badly by a mere flick of the elbow.
Should have been stronger in his own 22z
		
Click to expand...

No argument there. You'd expect a lock forward to be ready for a niggle or two from the opposition. 

It was still a foul but for all that England could have had no complaints if the referee had called it, it was smart play. Huge rewards if you get away with it and no damage done if you get pinged. 

I wasn't trying to suggest that the incident had any bearing on the result - Wales had a dodgy try awarded too which evened thing up somewhat - just using it as one of many possible examples to show that the refereeing was below the standard you'd expect for such a big game. Both sides were on the wrong end of a bunch of dubious decisions.


----------



## spongebob59 (Feb 27, 2022)

Yesterday's game took 101 minutes to complete, there were 2 scrums that took 6 minutes each 😡


----------



## JamesR (Feb 27, 2022)

Dando said:



			It always amazes me how little game time the sin binned player actually misses
		
Click to expand...

They should never take a scrum penalty, when an opposition back is in the bin.
Takes up too much time.


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 27, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			made no difference to the result overall - which I have no beef with - just a swing and a roundabout to confirm that the officiating was pretty poor throughout for both sides.
		
Click to expand...

Aye. Think the second try should have been pulled as well, given the Welsh forwards were pre bound and dragging the ball to ground.


----------



## FELL75 (Feb 27, 2022)

I thought England looked a little predictable. A few lines breaks but the only score was from a welsh error on a line out. No tuilagi, no plan b? A good game, ref aside. I don't think Ireland/France will be unduly worried...


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Feb 27, 2022)

Captainron said:



			Oh my word! That is not a bad tackle. Why the heck are they looking at it? Balls to this stupidity!
		
Click to expand...

The uncontested scrum rule ended the match as a contest today 

Thought it was a harsh red card in the first place


----------



## Grizzly (Feb 27, 2022)

FELL75 said:



			I thought England looked a little predictable. A few lines breaks but the only score was from a welsh error on a line out. No tuilagi, no plan b? A good game, ref aside. I don't think Ireland/France will be unduly worried...
		
Click to expand...

Really tricky, because I don't think we have a second best version of Tuilagi, but it is undoubtable that the side we selected at the weekend featured six of seven backs who wanted to go round the oppo (even the Seventh, Norwell, is borderline) and lacked impact. I don't understand why gain line impact (Atkinson, Lawrence, Northcott) or extreme pace (Radwan, Lynagh) haven't been given a foothold.


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2022)

AmandaJR said:



			I like Smith and don't agree he had a shocker BUT he did look a little one dimensional to me. Or maybe that's two - either try a darting run himself or give it to the man on his shoulder. It all became a bit obvious and no grubber kicks, kicks over the top, kicks to a wide man. Maybe it's Jones stifling him a bit...
		
Click to expand...

When you have a player like Smith you have to take the brilliant with the ordinary along with mediocre. We have it with Russell. Smith is a magic player who will be held back at test level whilst Jones is the head coach. He likes structure and that's not Smiths game.


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The uncontested scrum rule ended the match as a contest today

Thought it was a harsh red card in the first place
		
Click to expand...

By the laws it's a stick on red but the uncontested law made this a farce. I get why its there but this is one of those rare occasions where you say "not today please". Italy dug in well, I thought Ireland could have scored 70 today when that happened.


----------



## Val (Feb 27, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Just finished watching yesterday's games. Enjoyed them both.

Gutted about the result at HQ. Wales have got into a habit of going to Twickenham and just falling short. Lots of naivety from us - spurned kicks at goal, the attempt to run a penalty out of our own 22 rather than take the kick etc - but plenty of signs that we're not quite as bad as I thought we were.

France were excellent yesterday but the Scotland defence coach will be having nightmares. As good as they looked going forward, they were shambolic on the back foot and not all of that was due to France's sharpness.
		
Click to expand...

I think you're being harsh on France, they were excellent. I thought we played extremely well in parts but losing 2 tries so early in the game meant we were chasing. That said, a chance to go 17-12 up before half time and butchered was shocking, especially as France scored a try right away. 

They for me are currently the best team in the world. I've always loved watching French rugby but it's on another level currently. Right now they have to be favourites for the RWC next year.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 27, 2022)

Val said:



			...
They for me are currently the best team in the world. I've always loved watching French rugby but it's on another level currently. Right now they have to be favourites for the RWC next year.
		
Click to expand...

Always attractive to watch, but it's the relatively poor opposition that makes them so good - imo.
The Southern hemisphere nations haven't really started their wind-up for this year, let alone for the RWC next year! That said, playing at home will be an advantage, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do win.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Feb 28, 2022)

Going to see France - England at the Stad de France on 19 March
Can’t wait 😎 🏉


----------



## JamesR (Feb 28, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Going to see France - England at the Stad de France on 19 March
Can’t wait 😎 🏉
		
Click to expand...

I've got tickets for Eng v Ire in a fortnight


----------



## Dando (Feb 28, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Going to see France - England at the Stad de France on 19 March
Can’t wait 😎 🏉
		
Click to expand...

The poor French 🤣🤣


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 28, 2022)

Val said:



			I think you're being harsh on France, they were excellent. I thought we played extremely well in parts but losing 2 tries so early in the game meant we were chasing. That said, a chance to go 17-12 up before half time and butchered was shocking, especially as France scored a try right away.

They for me are currently the best team in the world. I've always loved watching French rugby but it's on another level currently. Right now they have to be favourites for the RWC next year.
		
Click to expand...

I think you're right about France having a serious shout at the World Cup. They're a strong side and getting better. It would have been interesting, on Saturday, if Stuart Hogg had managed to hang on to that pass though.


----------



## JamesR (Feb 28, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			I think you're right about France having a serious shout at the World Cup. They're a strong side and getting better. It would have been interesting, on Saturday, if Stuart Hogg had managed to hang on to that pass though.
		
Click to expand...

The only risk to them not winning this year's 6N's seems to be if their "Frenchness" comes out in one of the next two games.

There's always the risk that they'll lose it mentally, like they have so often in the past 🤞🏻


----------



## Carlwm (Feb 28, 2022)

JamesR said:



			The only risk to them not winning this year's 6N's seems to be if their "Frenchness" comes out in one of the next two games.

There's always the risk that they'll lose it mentally, like they have so often in the past 🤞🏻
		
Click to expand...

It's always a possibility, which I why I still give us a small (miniscule!) shout when we play them next but I think Shaun Edwards might well have given them a proper backbone. The way they dug in against us last year and how they stayed relatively unflustered when Ireland hit back at them this time round suggests they are not as fragile as old.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 28, 2022)

Why is the lob kick used so often, it seems to be an almost guaranteed way of giving away possession for very little territorial gain, also, isn't it about time the scrummage was changed either to non-contested  or less players to stop the wasted time of re-sets that so often result in penalties.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 28, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Why is the lob kick used so often, it seems to be an almost guaranteed way of giving away possession for very little territorial gain...
		
Click to expand...

Accidents aside, the 'evolutionary' nature of any strategy/tactic would normally mean that ones that have a negative effect too often don't last!


SocketRocket said:



			...isn't it about time the scrummage was changed either to non-contested  or less players to stop the wasted time of re-sets that so often result in penalties.
		
Click to expand...

A far too important part of the game to ditch imo. If you don't like Rugby's scrums, watch Rugby League's ones (where they also scrapped them as an anti-Covid measure).


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 28, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Accidents aside, the 'evolutionary' nature of any strategy/tactic would normally mean that ones that have a negative effect too often don't last!

A far too important part of the game to ditch imo. If you don't like Rugby's scrums, watch Rugby League's ones (where they also scrapped them as an anti-Covid measure).
		
Click to expand...

It was a question as to why the lob kick is used so often when it tends to give away hard won possession

I'm not suggesting the scrummage is ditched, the game needs a method to restart but currently it's just time wasting and the end result is either a penalty or eventually the ball back into play after much faffing.  I can't remember the last time I saw a scrum taking the ball forward any distance.  Also, it never seems right the way the ball is fed in on an angle, that never used to be allowed.


----------



## greenone (Feb 28, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Why is the lob kick used so often, it seems to be an almost guaranteed way of giving away possession for very little territorial gain, also, isn't it about time the scrummage was changed either to non-contested  or less players to stop the wasted time of re-sets that so often result in penalties.
		
Click to expand...

If the clock was off until the ball was out of the scrum there would be a hell of lot less resets. And get the ball fed in straight so the hookers actually have to hook.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 28, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			It was a question as to why the lob kick is used so often when it tends to give away hard won possession...
		
Click to expand...

Which I believe I answered! To expand...If it wasn't deemed an appropriate use, it would rapidly disappear!


SocketRocket said:



			...
I'm not suggesting the scrummage is ditched, the game needs a method to restart but currently it's just time wasting and the end result is either a penalty or eventually the ball back into play after much faffing.  I can't remember the last time I saw a scrum taking the ball forward any distance.  Also, it never seems right the way the ball is fed in on an angle, that never used to be allowed.
		
Click to expand...

Check this article out. Specifically...

The aim is to promote a fair contest for possession while also giving an advantage to the team putting the ball into the scrum. In most cases the opposition will have infringed for that team to be awarded the put-in.


----------



## SocketRocket (Feb 28, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Which I believe I answered! To expand...If it wasn't deemed an appropriate use, it would rapidly disappear!

Check this article out. Specifically...

The aim is to promote a fair contest for possession while also giving an advantage to the team putting the ball into the scrum. In most cases the opposition will have infringed for that team to be awarded the put-in.


Click to expand...

You gave an reply on lob kicks which didn't answer my question.  That's OK though if you don't have an explanation.

My point with the scrum is that it is now a time consuming manoeuvre that mostly ends in failure.  The scrum could be non contested or contested with less players to make it a work. What we have now is a disaster.


----------



## Val (Feb 28, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Always attractive to watch, but it's the relatively poor opposition that makes them so good - imo.
The Southern hemisphere nations haven't really started their wind-up for this year, let alone for the RWC next year! That said, playing at home will be an advantage, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do win.
		
Click to expand...

They've beaten Ireland and the All Black's in recent months, hardly poor opposition


----------



## Val (Feb 28, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Why is the lob kick used so often, it seems to be an almost guaranteed way of giving away possession for very little territorial gain, also, isn't it about time the scrummage was changed either to non-contested  or less players to stop the wasted time of re-sets that so often result in penalties.
		
Click to expand...

I've said many times that change the penalty for infringement to free kick with no option of a scrum then you may see a difference


----------



## Whereditgo (Feb 28, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			My point with the scrum is that it is now a time consuming manoeuvre that mostly ends in failure.  The scrum could be non contested or contested with less players to make it a work. What we have now is a disaster.
		
Click to expand...

To do that would result in the flankers being removed from the game as per rugby league, I do agree that the set scrum in its present form needs changing, but I don't believe that either of those solutions are the answer.



Foxholer said:



			There were certainly a number that went forward wrt the ground, if not the relative to the players positions.
I too wondered about the England try. Ball was definitely short initially, but was simply 'placed' over the line subsequently.
		
Click to expand...

Whether or not the ball travels forwards relative to the ground is irrelevant, the ball has to be passed from the ball carrier towards their own goal line.

You are permitted to play (therefore place) the ball once in any direction after the tackle is made - the old 'double movement' hasn't existed for a long time now.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 28, 2022)

Val said:



			They've beaten Ireland and the All Black's in recent months, hardly poor opposition
		
Click to expand...

ABs in off-season are not the same as in a WC year! 
Ireland was a good, but not dominant victory imo.


----------



## Foxholer (Feb 28, 2022)

Whereditgo said:



			...
Whether or not the ball travels forwards relative to the ground is irrelevant, the ball has to be passed from the ball carrier *towards their own goal line*.
...
		
Click to expand...

I believe it's the inverse/complement of the bold bit...that the ball must not be thrown forward. ie the players arms must not move forward.


----------



## Val (Feb 28, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			ABs in off-season are not the same as in a WC year!
Ireland was a good, but not dominant victory imo.
		
Click to expand...

🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 1, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Why is the lob kick used so often.
		
Click to expand...

When you say lob kick - because after 35 years around the game I've not heard a kick referred to that way - do you mean the box kick, or a simple chipped pass?


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 1, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			When you say lob kick - because after 35 years around the game I've not heard a kick referred to that way - do you mean the box kick, or a simple chipped pass?
		
Click to expand...

A kick that's lobbed 🙂. You know, a bit like a golf lob shot, high trajectory with little distance.  Or, up and under.  The one almost guaranteed to give away possession.


----------



## Imurg (Mar 1, 2022)

Sounds like a box kick..
If it's done correctly there's a chance of getting possession back...no chance if the ball goes to the full back who punts it out.


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 1, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			A kick that's lobbed 🙂. You know, a bit like a golf lob shot, high trajectory with little distance.  Or, up and under.  The one almost guaranteed to give away possession.
		
Click to expand...

So, the point of a good box kick is that it lands close enough to the offside line that there is a good chance for the kicking side to compete and if they do not regain possession, then it is unlikely that the opposition will make yards before being wrapped up in defenders, where they may find themselves isolated and concede possession or a penalty. 

The obvious comparison is with the old fashioned hoof up field. The danger there is whilst the ball is collected much deeper, there is no competing for the ball and crucially nine times out of ten the ball comes back in the hands of a stone runner moving at pace. There is way more chance for it to come back to bite you.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 1, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			So, the point of a good box kick is that it lands close enough to the offside line that there is a good chance for the kicking side to compete and if they do not regain possession, then it is unlikely that the opposition will make yards before being wrapped up in defenders, where they may find themselves isolated and concede possession or a penalty.

The obvious comparison is with the old fashioned hoof up field. The danger there is whilst the ball is collected much deeper, there is no competing for the ball and crucially nine times out of ten the ball comes back in the hands of a stone runner moving at pace. There is way more chance for it to come back to bite you.
		
Click to expand...

I've been watching these 'up and under lob kicks' and in almost every case it gives away possession.  The ball is falling into the arms of the other side and away from the kicker, there is an obvious advantage to the other side.  I just can't understand when you have possession of the ball just hoofing it away unless you are under pressure close to your own try line.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I've been watching these 'up and under lob kicks' and in almost every case it gives away possession.  The ball is falling into the arms of the other side and away from the kicker, there is an obvious advantage to the other side.  I just can't understand when you have possession of the ball just *hoofing it away unless you are under pressure close to your own try line*.
		
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely to use box kick under those (defensive) conditions. It's an offensive tactic.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 1, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Highly unlikely to use box kick under those (defensive) conditions. It's an offensive tactic.
		
Click to expand...

Your joking?  When you get a turn over or god forsake a ball out of a scrum right on your line with the opposition lined up in front it's the best option to hike it over their heads and maybe out of play.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 1, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Your joking?  When you get a turn over or god forsake a ball out of a scrum right on your line with the opposition lined up in front it's the best option to *hike it over their heads and maybe out of play*.
		
Click to expand...

That's not a box-kick!
Read this description...https://rugbydome.com/box-kicking-in-rugby/#:~:text=A box kick in rugby is when the kicker punts,and last line of defense.


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 1, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I've been watching these 'up and under lob kicks' and in almost every case it gives away possession.  The ball is falling into the arms of the other side and away from the kicker, there is an obvious advantage to the other side.  I just can't understand when you have possession of the ball just hoofing it away unless you are under pressure close to your own try line.
		
Click to expand...

Okay, so you are in possession in your own half, you have no ball speed and the defence is set. Your logic has that you keep hold and hope something comes up. It rarely does, not even just at the top level, at any competent level. So do you hold on and hope for the miracle that unlocks the defence, knowing you will usually make a mistake and hand broken field ball to the other side in your half? Or do you kick in the way that offers you the best opportunity to win the ball back, or to pass the same problem to the other side?


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 1, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Your joking?  When you get a turn over or god forsake a ball out of a scrum right on your line with the opposition lined up in front it's the best option to hike it over their heads and maybe out of play.
		
Click to expand...

Nah. At the top level line outs are well drilled, and for the attacking side offer the additional benefit of setting the defence - by which I mean, the defence set for where they perceive the attack might be, so any subterfuge is on the attacking side.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 2, 2022)

Grizzly said:



			Okay, so you are in possession in your own half, you have no ball speed and the defence is set. Your logic has that you keep hold and hope something comes up. It rarely does, not even just at the top level, at any competent level. So do you hold on and hope for the miracle that unlocks the defence, knowing you will usually make a mistake and hand broken field ball to the other side in your half? Or do you kick in the way that offers you the best opportunity to win the ball back, or to pass the same problem to the other side?
		
Click to expand...

Nah! As long as you have position you have chances, when you hand the ball to the other side your options to score have diminished, theirs have increased.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 2, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That's not a box-kick!
Read this description...https://rugbydome.com/box-kicking-in-rugby/#:~:text=A box kick in rugby is when the kicker punts,and last line of defense.
		
Click to expand...

What!  You can call it what you like but it's a high kick over the front row that clears your line.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 2, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			What!  You can call it what you like but it's a high kick over the front row that clears your line.
		
Click to expand...

Does it resemble the ones in the pics of that article? It's never intended that it go into touch. That would be a 'clearance' and would be kicked much more powerfully/longer and intended to go out/into touch.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 2, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Does it resemble the ones in the pics of that article? It's never intended that it go into touch. That would be a 'clearance' and would be kicked much more powerfully/longer and intended to go into touch.
		
Click to expand...

It clears the line, where it goes is forward and away from the current dangerous position. As I said it's the only place I feel the kick is useful.  That's it really so I've nothing else to add.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 2, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			It clears the line, where it goes is forward and away from the current dangerous position. As I said it's the only place I feel the kick is useful.  That's it really so I've nothing else to add.
		
Click to expand...

That seems dangerous to me, at least given the field position your post implies. 10+ yards further up the field, perhaps. But not when defending own goal line. A 'clearance' into touch would normally be the logical play.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 2, 2022)

The Box Kick is used when there is an opportunity to challenge for the ball and recover it from the opposition or, at least, apply enough pressure that they either fumble the take or are pressured into having to clear and give the opposition an offensive lineout. With a box kick, distance is not the key, rather height and positioning to allow a strong challenge. A clearance kick is exactly what is sounds like a kick to clear the lines and, normally, aim for touch. There are dozens of terms and variations for kicks in rugby from the classic up and under to the more modern term of the spiral bomb.

With regards a clearance into touch being the more logical option, not always. That will, at best, give the opponents an attacking lineout and you could be soon back where you started. Much depends on how the oppostion line is set up and how you are set up in defence. A quick box kick  can be used to quickly turn defense in to offense if there is an unprepared back line in front of you or, at least, move the play further down the pitch without giving the opposition the benefit of an attacking lineout and that is why an effective kick chase is so important.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 12, 2022)

Could be a heck of a game after that red card if Ireland go for it


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 12, 2022)

Does the position of the offence on the field make a difference when it comes to the ref giving a yellow card? It seems as though Ireland have conceded a lot of penalties at the scrum but haven't had anyone yellow carded for repeat offences. I've seen them given for repeated offences close to the try line so just wondered if some of them being in the England half makes a difference.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 12, 2022)

Quiet on here tonight............


----------



## GB72 (Mar 12, 2022)

Actually think it was a great England performance to stay in it for so long with 14 men. Told in the end but a gutsy performance


----------



## spongebob59 (Mar 12, 2022)

Agreed gutsy, seemed to lose momentum after that lost lineout


----------



## JamesR (Mar 13, 2022)

- No issues with the Red
- Good fight for a 14 v 15 battle
- Shame we weren’t able to try any attacking off the dominant scrum
- Didn’t enjoy sitting in amongst all the booing of the ref and kicker


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 13, 2022)

As someone that follows and watches rugby but doesn't claim to be an expert or to know all the rules, it did seem to be quite a harsh red card for the England player. It looked as though he'd gone in to make the tackle and it was an accidental clash of heads. Having listened to the analysis I can see why it was given as a red card as it was head to head contact and refs have to protect the players but it does seem harsh for something that looked accidental.


----------



## spongebob59 (Mar 13, 2022)

What annoys me about this is that Ryan was a decoy runner so Ewels may or may not have intended to make a tackle. There was no mitigation made for this and if you have decoy runners you may or may not be tryig to tackle !
If they want tackles to be lower in this situation then the attacking side has a big advantage.

There was a clothes line tackle on Slade(by Furlough) later in the game  right in front of the ref and not even reviewed.

A superb effort by the team until the gas ran out


----------



## JamesR (Mar 13, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			As someone that follows and watches rugby but doesn't claim to be an expert or to know all the rules, it did seem to be quite a harsh red card for the England player. It looked as though he'd gone in to make the tackle and it was an accidental clash of heads. Having listened to the analysis I can see why it was given as a red card as it was head to head contact and refs have to protect the players but it does seem harsh for something that looked accidental.
		
Click to expand...

No it was as easy a red for the ref to give as you will see.
Upright, force, no mitigation at all!


----------



## JamesR (Mar 13, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			What annoys me about this is that Ryan was a decoy runner so Ewels may or may not have intended to make a tackle. There was no mitigation made for this and if you have decoy runners you may or may not be tryig to tackle !
If they want tackles to be lower in this situation then the attacking side has a big advantage.

There was a clothes line tackle on Slade(by Furlough) later in the game  right in front of the ref and not even reviewed.

A superb effort by the team until the gas ran out
		
Click to expand...

That’s why they have decoy runners. To confuse the defenders.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 13, 2022)

A particular highlight for me was the idiot, who ran on during the anthems, being absolutely hammered by the security guard.
Don’t think he thought he was quite so funny this week.


----------



## spongebob59 (Mar 13, 2022)

JamesR said:



			That’s why they have decoy runners. To confuse the defenders.
		
Click to expand...

I know that !


----------



## JamesR (Mar 13, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			I know that !
		
Click to expand...

Well you aren’t meant to tackle a decoy runner anyway. It’s a tackle off the ball.
So it was potentially doubly against the rules.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 13, 2022)

Other than all the time wasted in scrummages and possession being hoofed away I enjoyed the game 😄


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 13, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Well you aren’t meant to tackle a decoy runner anyway. It’s a tackle off the ball.
So it was potentially doubly against the rules.
		
Click to expand...

A decor runner verging on obstruction....
Ref also missed the off the feet tackle/clearout made just before the penultimate Irish try. No attempt to stay on his feet, just flew through the man.

However, if the Enlglish boys can make those sort of tackles and commitment when there are 15 of them they will be a different team to play.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 13, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			A decor runner verging on obstruction....
Ref also missed the off the feet tackle/clearout made just before the penultimate Irish try. No attempt to stay on his feet, just flew through the man.

However, if the Enlglish boys can make those sort of tackles and commitment when there are 15 of them they will be a different team to play.
		
Click to expand...

Ryan had actually just passed the ball to Sexton. So wasn’t a decoy, or obstructing.


----------



## Grizzly (Mar 13, 2022)

JamesR said:



			No it was as easy a red for the ref to give as you will see.
Upright, force, no mitigation at all!
		
Click to expand...

I have to agree: usually players get away with one's like this (not that they should) because it came so early in the game and in an innocuous situation. But the way Ryan reeled around like a battered heavyweight made it clear that it was a hard collision. 

Furlong should have followed for his Hulk Hogan impersonation.


----------



## AliMc (Mar 13, 2022)

Caught a bit of a discussion on 5live tonight about the match, it made me realise that I had been watching the wrong game ........ in the one I saw Ireland won !


----------



## Swingalot (Mar 13, 2022)

Red card correct to the current Laws and guidelines given, but they need to change ASAP otherwise we will continue to have contests decided by decisions such as that. For me, intent needs to be considered, along with angle head makes contact with other head. 
If you apply the laws and guidelines to the strictest terms, there would be no one left on the pitch. I can find you 20plus tackles from that game where as the tackle is being made the heads come into some form of contact.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 13, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Caught a bit of a discussion on 5live tonight about the match, it made me realise that I had been watching the wrong game ........ in the one I saw Ireland won !
		
Click to expand...

As a foreigner, it's interesting to observe the 'English' glorification of 'plucky' defeats. And there's been plenty of them, along with a goodly number of wins harnessing same/similar attitudes.
One of the more memorable plucky ones from a Kiwi pov was Russell Coutts's Gold Medal effort in the Finn class at 1984 Olympics. After about the 3rd round, most of the reports started with the state of the ulcerous blister on his backside. After the final race, it was touch and go whether he would be DQ-ed for having gear that retained too much water too!
Amusing, to some, fact...NZ won 8 Golds that games (still a record). All were in 'sitting down' events!


----------



## greenone (Mar 14, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Caught a bit of a discussion on 5live tonight about the match, it made me realise that I had been watching the wrong game ........ in the one I saw Ireland won !
		
Click to expand...

Standard when England are playing football or rugby. Watch any game England aren't playing in be it euros/world cup or 6n and half the pre and post match is usually talking about England until they get knocked out.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2022)

greenone said:



			Standard when England are playing football or rugby. Watch any game England aren't playing in be it euros/world cup or 6n and half the pre and post match is usually talking about England until they get knocked out.
		
Click to expand...

Too true, but unfortunately a constant fact on UK television.
Imagine the uproar there would be if it were another nation instead of England.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Too true, but unfortunately a constant fact on UK television.
Imagine the uproar there would be if it were another nation instead of England.
		
Click to expand...

There would be no uproar - the chips on the shoulder are firmly in your camp


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			There would be no uproar - the chips on the shoulder are firmly in your camp
		
Click to expand...

How do you know if you have never had to suffer it.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 14, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Caught a bit of a discussion on 5live tonight about the match, it made me realise that I had been watching the wrong game ........ in the one I saw Ireland won !
		
Click to expand...

I think in the context of the match, a focus on the England performance was understandable. The Irish performance was unremarkable with a flattering scoreline due to late tries whereas being down to 14 men and holding a class opposition for 70 minutes was worthy of praise and comment. Add to that the fact that the Wales v France match as on the Friday night and so had already been discussed and the Scotland game, as with any game against Italy, rarely requires much analysis unless there is an Italy win and the focus on the England match and the England performance seems justified. 

I actually tend to find rugby coverage in general far less jongoistic towards England than some sports commentaries


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			How do you know if you have never had to suffer it.

Click to expand...

Lived in scotland for plenty of years to see the Scottish bias within the media 🤫


----------



## JamesR (Mar 14, 2022)

AliMc said:



			Caught a bit of a discussion on 5live tonight about the match, it made me realise that I had been watching the wrong game ........ in the one I saw Ireland won !
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, I've seen plenty of Rugby press over the years, for Wales having "moral victories", when playing their old brand of attacking rugby, but losing valiantly.

Also, as Greg says, Ireland were unspectacular, as they were against Italy, so the only thing to really discuss about them was well done on playing "poorly" but getting the win.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lived in scotland for plenty of years to see the Scottish bias within the media 🤫
		
Click to expand...

Not a Scottish Express or Mail reader then.
I would love to know which TV stations in Scotland have a Scottish bias, perhaps you could name them.
When the folk in England are watching Hamilton Accies play Cove Rangers in the Scottish Cup on prime time English BBC 1 or 2 perhaps we could have a conversation.... because I find having diddy English teams playing Cup games on prime time Scottish TV very very strange.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 14, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Not a Scottish Express or Mail reader then.
I would love to know which TV stations in Scotland have a Scottish bias, perhaps you could name them.
When the folk in England are watching Hamilton Accies play Cove Rangers in the Scottish Cup on prime time English BBC 1 or 2 perhaps we could have a conversation.... because I find having diddy English teams playing Cup games on prime time Scottish TV very very strange.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure what “diddy” English team are on Prime Time Scottish Tv but you are more than welcome to “turn over” - if it’s not to your liking.

If I want to watch the Scottish Cup then I can if I wish

But once again you are just taking the thread to some anti English angle and bring football into it


----------



## GB72 (Mar 14, 2022)

Can you take comments on what football is on TV over to the football thread. As far as rugby is concerned, there is actually more scottish and welsh club rugby, often in their native tongue on TV than there is English. In fact I will often watch welsh matches on S4C or similar. As for the 6 Nations, every match is covered live and given an equal length program for build up and analyis. Non 6 Nations international rugby is all over the shop for all nations so nobody knows where it is going to turn up but it all gets shown.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 14, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Not sure what “diddy” English team are on Prime Time Scottish Tv but you are more than welcome to “turn over” - if it’s not to your liking.

If I want to watch the Scottish Cup then I can if I wish

But once again you are just taking the thread to some anti English angle and bring football into it
		
Click to expand...

Diddy English teams are 6th tier clubs playing in the English Cup televised matches.
As I said imagine English viewers having to make 'the choice to turn over'  from watching Brechin City v Cowdenbeath on prime time BBC1 or 2.
I think Brechin and Clach are both 5th tier Scottish Leagues.
The thread was talking about equality of TV sports production on British TV.
I was giving you a glaring example of how skewed it is. [Two now.]


----------



## JamesR (Mar 14, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Diddy English teams are 6th tier clubs playing in the English Cup televised matches.
As I said imagine English viewers having to make 'the choice to turn over'  from watching Brechin City v Cowdenbeath on prime time BBC1 or 2.
I think Brechin and Clach are both 5th tier Scottish Leagues.
The thread was talking about equality of TV sports production on British TV.
I was giving you a glaring example of how skewed it is. [Two now.]
		
Click to expand...

No, the thread is about the Six Nations. You’re the one moaning about watching English club rugby.
Also, I highly doubt you watch 6th tier club matches.


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Mar 14, 2022)

Back on track chaps please


----------



## Val (Mar 14, 2022)

A good Scitland victory over a spicy Italian side. Still plenty errors in our game and fear a tanking in Dublin if we play like that however that is a game we would have lost 6 years ago


----------



## GB72 (Mar 14, 2022)

Val said:



			A good Scitland victory over a spicy Italian side. Still plenty errors in our game and fear a tanking in Dublin if we play like that however that is a game we would have lost 6 years ago
		
Click to expand...

Your game was a great watch. Was going to switch off and listen to the Tigers at half time but ended up watching the full 80 minutes


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 14, 2022)

Val said:



			A good Scitland victory over a spicy Italian side. Still plenty errors in our game and fear a tanking in Dublin if we play like that however that is a game we would have lost 6 years ago
		
Click to expand...

Also best performance this tournament by Italy imo. Not sure whether how much, if any, was due to 'the opposition', but an entertaining game. Still a bit 'league-ish' for me to love, but that is what the 'modern' game has evolved into. It's also why scrums _must_ continue, even if uncontested, as that 'removes' 8 guys from each side which allows gaps in the back-line to be probed.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 14, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Your game was a great watch. Was going to switch off and listen to the Tigers at half time but ended up watching the full 80 minutes
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, we watched in the Twickenham fan zone. It was a great watch.
End to end action.


----------



## spongebob59 (Mar 14, 2022)

Could be 2/3 English backs who might be up playing for Italy next year, would make a lot of difference mas their pack has always been pretty decent.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 15, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Also best performance this tournament by Italy imo. Not sure whether how much, if any, was due to 'the opposition', but an entertaining game. Still a bit 'league-ish' for me to love, but that is what the 'modern' game has evolved into. It's also why scrums _must_ continue, even if uncontested, as that 'removes' 8 guys from each side which allows gaps in the back-line to be probed.
		
Click to expand...

Either uncontested or only contested as the ball is fed in.  It's getting pathetic how often the scrum collapses at the set stage now.  If it has to be contested then maybe reduce it to five so play can be more attacking.


----------



## greenone (Mar 15, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Either uncontested or only contested as the ball is fed in.  It's getting pathetic how often the scrum collapses at the set stage now.  If it has to be contested then maybe reduce it to five so play can be more attacking.
		
Click to expand...

Just get the ball fed in straight and get the hookers hooking.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 15, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Either uncontested or only contested as the ball is fed in.  It's getting pathetic how often the scrum collapses at the set stage now.  If it has to be contested then maybe *reduce it to five so play can be more attacking*.
		
Click to expand...

You missed/failed to absorb my assertion that having 8-man scrums promotes more attacking play - with backs spread widely across the field capable of probing the greater gaps betwen players. A 5 man scrum would be little difference from a maul, with 3 more players squeezing the space for attacks and play likely to become even more 'league-like' than the high-paced, flowing attacks I prefer.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 15, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			You missed/failed to absorb my assertion that having 8-man scrums promotes more attacking play - with backs spread widely across the field capable of probing the greater gaps betwen players. A 5 man scrum would be little difference from a maul, with 3 more players squeezing the space for attacks and play likely to become even more 'league-like' than the high-paced, flowing attacks I prefer.
		
Click to expand...

I disagree, Rugby Union has become too slow and lacking flair.  The game needs changing.


----------



## greenone (Mar 15, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I disagree, Rugby Union has become too slow and lacking flair.  The game needs changing.
		
Click to expand...

A properly hooked ball is the fastest ball there is in the game. Ball goes in, the hooker hooks the ball straight to the number 8s feet and the ball is available in about a second. Then it's upto the scrum half/8 to get it out to the backs as they see fit.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 16, 2022)

greenone said:



			A properly hooked ball is the fastest ball there is in the game. Ball goes in, the hooker hooks the ball straight to the number 8s feet and the ball is available in about a second. Then it's upto the scrum half/8 to get it out to the backs as they see fit.
		
Click to expand...

The ball is never put in straight, the scrum collapses or turns creating a fail more often than a clean ball back.  It's a time waste and imo needs changing.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			The ball is never put in straight, the scrum collapses or turns creating a fail more often than a clean ball back.  It's a time waste and *imo needs changing*.
		
Click to expand...

It's a totally reasonable way of _restarting the game after a breakdown, giving the non-offending/forward moving side an/the advantage_.
Re the bold bit...tweaking perhaps, but it does achieve the italicised bit reasonably well while maintaining the 'warrior' nature of the game.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 16, 2022)

Everyone and their dogs giving Scotland no chance against Ireland.

Get your money on Scotland quick.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Mar 16, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I disagree, Rugby Union has become too slow and lacking flair.  The game needs changing.
		
Click to expand...

Yet all the stats say otherwise - more tries per game now, ball in play longer, less scrums etc.

https://www.statsperform.com/resour...istical-analysis-on-how-the-game-has-evolved/


----------



## greenone (Mar 16, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			The ball is never put in straight, the scrum collapses or turns creating a fail more often than a clean ball back.  It's a time waste and imo needs changing.
		
Click to expand...

That's why I said get the ball put in straight and get the hookers hooking. If the hookers had to hook instead of being a centre prop the scrum would be more stable with less resets and the scrum becomes more of a contest.


----------



## Val (Mar 16, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I disagree, Rugby Union has become too slow and lacking flair.  The game needs changing.
		
Click to expand...

You need to watch more of it, it's slow in England but no many other places


----------



## Val (Mar 16, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Everyone and their dogs giving Scotland no chance against Ireland.

Get your money on Scotland quick. 

Click to expand...

And rightly ao, we've been gash for 3 games


----------



## Val (Mar 16, 2022)

greenone said:



			That's why I said get the ball put in straight and get the hookers hooking. If the hookers had to hook instead of being a centre prop the scrum would be more stable with less resets and the scrum becomes more of a contest.
		
Click to expand...

There is more chance of a hook now that the brake foot is part of the game for hookers


----------



## JamesR (Mar 16, 2022)

Val said:



			You need to watch more of it, it's slow in England but no many other places
		
Click to expand...

Except Wasps, London Irish, Bristol, Quinn’s etc
I think you mean the England team, not in England.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			The ball is never put in straight, the scrum collapses or turns creating a fail more often than a clean ball back.  It's a time waste and imo needs changing.
		
Click to expand...

If the ball wasn't going in straight, there'd be far more penalties given for that offence. You are likely 'seeing it as not straight' whereas it IS going in straight, but offset by half a body width or more (as is allowed - the Scrum Half can align his 'leading' shoulder to the middle line of the scrum), so the ball doesn't actually go down the middle of the tunnel.


----------



## Imurg (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			If the ball wasn't going in straight, there'd be far more penalties given for that offence. You are likely 'seeing it as not straight' whereas it IS going in straight, but offset by half a body width or more (as is allowed), so not actually down the middle of the tunnel.
		
Click to expand...

The last time a ball went in straight at a scrum was about 1985........


----------



## greenone (Mar 16, 2022)

Imurg said:



			The last time a ball went in straight at a scrum was about 1985........
		
Click to expand...

There was a brief period about 7 years ago where it was being pinged by the refs... It only lasted a couple of months.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2022)

Imurg said:



			The last time a ball went in straight at a scrum was about 1985........
		
Click to expand...

It just looks that way. And being oval, a 'favourable bounce' can be generated too. FWIW, I don't believe it's a huge problem, as the side feeding the scrum are 'due' possession anyway.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 16, 2022)

Val said:



			You need to watch more of it, it's slow in England but no many other places
		
Click to expand...

It's just the way I see the modern game Val.  Scrums are a disaster and waste time, the game seems to get shut down so much so that it looks boring. Kicking the ball seems the only way of moving it forward but much of it is pointless hoofing it with little or no strategy.  When I watch Sevens it's exiting and has flair, something the modern 15s is lacking.   It's not just the English game either.   
I understand many disagree but to me it's gone a simar way to modern professional golf and needs some change to open it up.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2022)

Val said:



			And rightly ao, we've been gash for 3 games
		
Click to expand...

Consistent then!


----------



## greenone (Mar 16, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			It just looks that way. And being oval, a 'favourable bounce' can be generated too. FWIW, I don't believe it's a huge problem, as the side feeding the scrum are 'due' possession anyway.
		
Click to expand...

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9qzTx0VTrQE/Vcqw5jdAEBI/AAAAAAAAGGc/yi3qY6lAKkc/s1600/Gori+feed.gif
A fairly typical scrum. If you think that is in straight your deluded.


----------



## Val (Mar 16, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			It's just the way I see the modern game Val.  Scrums are a disaster and waste time, the game seems to get shut down so much so that it looks boring. Kicking the ball seems the only way of moving it forward but much of it is pointless hoofing it with little or no strategy.  When I watch Sevens it's exiting and has flair, something the modern 15s is lacking.   It's not just the English game either.  
I understand many disagree but to me it's gone a simar way to modern professional golf and needs some change to open it up.
		
Click to expand...

Like I said, you need to watch more. Watch some Top 14, URC or Super Rugby. Not slow by any means.


----------



## Val (Mar 16, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Except Wasps, London Irish, Bristol, Quinn’s etc
I think you mean the England team, not in England.
		
Click to expand...

OK, I'll agree with that, like watching the Quins, exciting side as are Bristol from time to time. Tigers look very good too.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 16, 2022)

Val said:



			OK, I'll agree with that, like watching the Quins, exciting side as are Bristol from time to time. Tigers look very good too.
		
Click to expand...

We are a bit better this season 😁😁😁😁


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2022)

greenone said:



https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9qzTx0VTrQE/Vcqw5jdAEBI/AAAAAAAAGGc/yi3qY6lAKkc/s1600/Gori+feed.gif
A fairly typical scrum. If you think that is in straight your deluded.
		
Click to expand...

What you really need to do is to define 'Straight'! And it's not necessarily 'Down the middle of the tunnel!

IN *straight*...Looks likely. What happened after it hit the ground....Advantage les Bleus. Straight does not require it to be down the middle of the tunnel (see my earlier post)! I'm certain the same happened on England put-ins too! And, as I've stated previously, the scrum is a method of restarting after a non-critical offense by the opposition, so giving an advantage to the non-offending team is perfectly reasonable!


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 16, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I disagree, Rugby Union has become too slow and lacking flair.  The game needs changing.
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but eliminating scrums, thus sending 8/9 more players across the field will do actual suppress 'flair'!


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Perhaps, but eliminating scrums, thus sending 8/9 more players across the field will do actual suppress 'flair'!
		
Click to expand...

I didn't suggest eliminating scrums, rather that the scrum in its present form is no longer a suitable method of restarting play.  It needs to be faster, more reliable and fit for purpose.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			I didn't suggest eliminating scrums, rather that the scrum in its present form is no longer a suitable method of restarting play.  It needs to be faster, more reliable and fit for purpose.
		
Click to expand...

So you've criticised it, but not proposed a solution! Great! In other words, stop being a 'whingeing pom' and propose an alternative!
FWIW, it seems to me that it's 'reliable', given its purpose. And, therefore, definitely 'fit for purpose'. I'd be happy to see it faster though.


----------



## greenone (Mar 17, 2022)

The problem is that the referees don't apply the laws of the game at scrum time. Apply the laws properly and the issues go away.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			So you've criticised it, but not proposed a solution! Great! In other words, stop being a 'whingeing pom' and propose an alternative!
FWIW, it seems to me that it's 'reliable', given its purpose. And, therefore, definitely 'fit for purpose'. I'd be happy to see it faster though.
		
Click to expand...

Oh dear, here we go again with your anti British insults.  

If you bothered to actually read my posts I've suggested some ways of improving scrums but I guess your lazy insulting attitude will have ignored them. 🙄. 

Read #355 but there are others.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Oh dear, here we go again with your anti British insults.

If you bothered to actually read my posts I've suggested some ways of improving scrums but I guess your lazy insulting attitude will have ignored them. 🙄.

Read #355 but there are others.
		
Click to expand...


Utter twaddle!


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:




Utter twaddle!
		
Click to expand...

Typical!  Personal insults rather than a grown up discussion 🙄


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Typical!  Personal insults rather than a grown up discussion 🙄
		
Click to expand...

See/Ref post 386!
The only need to fiddle with the scrum is to make it safer - as has been done recently. If that requires resets, then so be it.
If you want to eliminate risk, head over to Rugby League, where the rules, at least from my understanding, were made/changed to eliminate the prospect of the, primarily miners, being forced to lose pay because of injury playing 'Rugby'.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			See/Ref post 386!
The only need to fiddle with the scrum is to make it safer - as has been done recently. If that requires resets, then so be it.
		
Click to expand...

So why the insulting posts. It's only a discussion about Rugby, can't you disagree with someone without being rude.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 17, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			So why the insulting posts. It's only a discussion about Rugby, can't you disagree with someone without being rude.
		
Click to expand...

Does it all the time. Annoying troll looking for reactions. Fortunately is now on ignore. Shame as so many threads getting fractured because of it


----------



## Vikingman (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			See/Ref post 386!
The only need to fiddle with the scrum is to make it safer - as has been done recently. If that requires resets, then so be it.
If you want to eliminate risk, head over to Rugby League, where the rules, at least from my understanding, were made/changed to eliminate the prospect of the, primarily miners, being forced to lose pay because of injury playing 'Rugby'.
		
Click to expand...

The clubs decided to pay the players because the players were loosing shifts at work to play rugby.  The rules evolved over time to make the game more entertaining for the spectators. Interesting reading your posts mentioning you don't enjoy what you consider "leaguish" play.  You probably better get used to it seeing how you keep nicking league rules. What next, reduce to thirteen and get shut of line outs?


----------



## DCB (Mar 17, 2022)

Let's play nicely with one another please.

You have been warned


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

Vikingman said:



			The clubs decided to pay the players because the players were loosing shifts at work to play rugby.  The rules evolved over time to make the game more entertaining for the spectators. Interesting reading your posts mentioning you don't enjoy what you consider "leaguish" play.  You probably better get used to it seeing how you keep nicking league rules. What next, reduce to thirteen and get shut of line outs?
		
Click to expand...

My understanding (from quite a long time ago) is that that's an 'also' reason - and more associated with why 'the League' separated from 'the Union'. So both apply - with the intention that the participants didn't lose income.

FWIW, I'm aware - even as I write them - that my comments might seem as 'criticism' of League. They are not meant to be. I enjoy watching both. I'm not (trying to be)/being critical of League, but prefer the flowing game that Rugby is/should be.

I'm certain, Union will (sensibly) continue to look at what League has done to make it safer for participants, but lineouts will _always_ be part of Union imo. A fundamental 'good thing', if not, perhaps, a goal of Union is that there's a position in a Union team for every (fit) body shape and Lineouts provide tall (gangly?) players with oportunities they might not be best qualified for elsewhere. 

League, understandably given its origins, is rather more 'single dimensioned' about participants physical attributes - strength and stamina being 'higher rated' than speed (except 'off the mark') for example. Likewise, scrums will/should continue to be something that removes forwards from immediate subsequent play - as it's the swamping of the ball in mauls/rucks that prevents the general flow of the game. Rugby's authorities will continue to struggle with the conflicting aims of strength and safety with scrums though. 

Uncontested scrums would be a retrograde move imo. On the other hand, I don't like watching games where one set of forwards dominate the other in scrums - even though it's 'part of the game'.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

On other matters, Scotland have dropped Finn Russell for the game against Ireland. Big decision by Townsend. How do Scottish fans feel about that?


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

Lord Tyrion said:



			On other matters, Scotland have dropped Finn Russell for the game against Ireland. Big decision by Townsend. How do Scottish fans feel about that?
		
Click to expand...

I'm not specifically a Scotland fan, but can certainly understand Townsend's reasoning. His replacement has certainly shown (deserving?) good form compared to Russell's efforts, so maybe not that much of a 'big' decision.
Speaking of #10s...I'm a little disppointed that Marcus Smith hasn't shown a bit more flair than he has (and/though there has certainly been some). I may be being a bit unfair either/both to him and his opposite numbers, but to me he just seems to be on the edge of brilliance but holds, or is held, back from making the telling breaks and apparent opportunities are lost.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm not specifically a Scotland fan, but can certainly understand Townsend's reasoning. His replacement has certainly shown (deserving?) good form compared to Russell's efforts, so maybe not that much of a 'big' decision.
Speaking of #10s...I'm a little disppointed that Marcus Smith hasn't shown a bit more flair than he has (and/though there has certainly been some). I may be being a bit unfair either/both to him and his opposite numbers, but to me he just seems to be on the edge of brilliance but holds, or is held, back from making the telling breaks and apparent opportunities are lost.
		
Click to expand...

Lack if really quality in the centres and a bigger runner in the centres to draw focus away from the fly half have been issues with England (as well as the problem of simply having Elliot Daly anywhere near the pitch). I can see Dan Kelly from Tigers appearing in the  next squad if form stays as it is.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 17, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Lack if really quality in the centres and a bigger runner in the centres to draw focus away from the fly half have been issues with England (as well as the problem of simply having Elliot Daly anywhere near the pitch). I can see Dan Kelly from Tigers appearing in the  next squad if form stays as it is.
		
Click to expand...

Who do you think are the other IC options for England?

 - Dingwall at Saints is either very good or poor, no middle ground
 - Ojomoh at Bath is improving/learning quickly
 - Devoto at Exeter is a decent player (I think he had a run with England)
 - Atkinson at Glous is probably too late into the fold
 - Northmore at Quins is really an OC
 - Lozowski at Sarries, more O/H or OC

Not really many current alternatives


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 17, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Who do you think are the other IC options for England?

- Dingwall at Saints is either very good or poor, no middle ground
- Ojomoh at Bath is improving/learning quickly
- Devoto at Exeter is a decent player (I think he had a run with England)
- Atkinson at Glous is probably too late into the fold
- Northmore at Quins is really an OC
- Lozowski at Sarries, more O/H or OC

Not really many current alternatives
		
Click to expand...

What's all this inside/outside malarkey?  halfback, 1st 5/8th, 2nd 5/8th left and right wing (3/4)s and Fullback. Only compromise to inside/outside is for Centres (3/4)!


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 17, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			I'm not specifically a Scotland fan, but can certainly understand Townsend's reasoning. His replacement has certainly shown (deserving?) good form compared to Russell's efforts, so maybe not that much of a 'big' decision.
Speaking of #10s...I'm a little disppointed that Marcus Smith hasn't shown a bit more flair than he has (and/though there has certainly been some). I may be being a bit unfair either/both to him and his opposite numbers, but to me he just seems to be on the edge of brilliance but holds, or is held, back from making the telling breaks and apparent opportunities are lost.
		
Click to expand...

I don't really follow rugby outside of the international's, very much a fair weather follower, but I had seen a lot pre tournament about Russell being world class, club form being excellent, a maverick etc. For him to be dropped against a team such as Ireland, top class side, suggests the tournament has not gone to plan for him. I have not seen every Scotland game, which is why I was interested to hear if others agreed with Townsend.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 17, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Who do you think are the other IC options for England?

- Dingwall at Saints is either very good or poor, no middle ground
- Ojomoh at Bath is improving/learning quickly
- Devoto at Exeter is a decent player (I think he had a run with England)
- Atkinson at Glous is probably too late into the fold
- Northmore at Quins is really an OC
- Lozowski at Sarries, more O/H or OC

Not really many current alternatives
		
Click to expand...

Think you are looking at Dingwall or Ojomoh. Atkinson a bit old, Devoto has had a shot, Lozowski may be off to play for Italy. Think you may be looking at needing an OC anyway as suspect Farrrell will have the 12 shirt when fit irrespective of form. Trouble is there is noboday that does the job that Manu does but as a Tigers fan, I know that there is simply no point in waiting for his long term return as it never happens.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 17, 2022)

GB72 said:



			Think you are looking at Dingwall or Ojomoh. Atkinson a bit old, Devoto has had a shot, Lozowski may be off to play for Italy. Think you may be looking at needing an OC anyway as suspect Farrrell will have the 12 shirt when fit irrespective of form. Trouble is there is noboday that does the job that Manu does but as a Tigers fan, I know that there is simply no point in waiting for his long term return as it never happens.
		
Click to expand...

Closest I can think of to Manu could possibly be Odogwu at Wasps. Can & does play OC sometimes, is fast as anything, and built like a S'brickhouse.


----------



## HeftyHacker (Mar 18, 2022)

JamesR said:



			Closest I can think of to Manu could possibly be Odogwu at Wasps. Can & does play OC sometimes, is fast as anything, and built like a S'brickhouse.
		
Click to expand...

Odogwu is only about 3'6" though, he wouldn't offer what Manu does - no one does. The man is a freak of nature, which is why he walks into the team on the rare occasions he is fit.

James Haskell was talking on his podcast about when the England squad went to Denver in 2015 before the world Cup. They had a bloke in helping them with S&C who had worked with a lot of the top basketball and American Football players. He was astounded by Manu and said he was the most explosive athlete he had ever encountered, apparently his numbers (relative to his size) for vertical jumps etc were off the charts.

Unfortunately, its probably the same reason as to why he's injured constantly.


----------



## Carlwm (Mar 18, 2022)

Only just caught last weekend's games. Once again, really frustrated with Wales. We had every chance to win the game but our attacking play was truly knuckle-headed. That's two wins we've left out on the park now. I do think we've shown England a way to beat France though. Stymie their plan A and they don't have much of a plan B.

Speaking of England, that was a big-hearted performance after the early sending-off A worrying statistic though, for English fans, is one try scored and seven conceded, during their last two home games. HQ's fortress has become leaky.

Scotland were comfortable enough against Italy but it was nice to see the latter being a little more competitive, for once. They were ultimately done in by individual errors including a couple of howlers from their scrum-half. However, with a lot of decent young players coming through, there's plenty of potential for the next couple of seasons. Not against Wales at the weekend, though, hopefully.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2022)

Italy 😲😲👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

What a try to win it and away at Wales


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 19, 2022)

Fabulous result for Italy, building further on their great effort last week!


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Mar 19, 2022)

Just watched the Italy Wales game from a bar in Paris, what a cheer for that Italy try.
Off to the France England match this evening, going to be a great atmosphere whatever the result.

Lots of very good humoured French fans around 👍🏉


----------



## Imurg (Mar 19, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Just watched the Italy Wales game from a bar in Paris, what a cheer for that Italy try.
Off to the France England match this evening, going to be a great atmosphere whatever the result.

Lots of very good humoured French fans around 👍🏉
		
Click to expand...

That's coz they know they're going to win....


----------



## Blue in Munich (Mar 19, 2022)

Have the Welsh claimed a moral victory yet?


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 19, 2022)

Blue in Munich said:



			Have the Welsh claimed a moral victory yet? 

Click to expand...

No but Biggar has shelved any responsibility as usual...shakes his head, looks at the big screen, sorts his hair out...and repeat!!


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 19, 2022)

I can't hear those "Italy shouldnt be in the 6 Nations...." comments........


----------



## rudebhoy (Mar 19, 2022)

Scotland must be setting a record for penalties conceded.


----------



## upsidedown (Mar 19, 2022)

rudebhoy said:



			Scotland must be setting a record for penalties conceded.
		
Click to expand...

Far far too many 😭


----------



## IanM (Mar 19, 2022)

Teed off at Newport at 12.15.

My mate booked it as "not bothering to watch Wales win by 30 points now there's nothing to win. "

On the way round, the other 3 (all Welsh) are debating who should replace Italy in the 6 Nations as they are "a joke."

The Englishman in the 4 ball (me) is keeping quiet as expected a stuffing off the French later. 

We walk into a packed clubhouse after the game,  it's like a morgue!!  

I grinned so wide, I dislocated my jaw!!  No need to say a word!  Funniest thing I've seen in ages.


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Mar 19, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I can't hear those "Italy shouldnt be in the 6 Nations...." comments........
		
Click to expand...

To be fair, they had lost 36 Six nations games on the bounce. The tournament is far better with them as a genuine team though. Sorry to Wales but that was a great result for the tournament.


----------



## IanM (Mar 19, 2022)

I think other nations just pleased it wasn't them!!


----------



## GB72 (Mar 19, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I can't hear those "Italy shouldnt be in the 6 Nations...." comments........
		
Click to expand...

To be fair most are not calling for Italy to be out, most opposed the SA idea. Most just want the rest of Europe to have a chance at least via a playoff with whoever is bottom


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Mar 19, 2022)

My view this evening 😎🏉


----------



## BrianM (Mar 19, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



View attachment 41890

My view this evening 😎🏉
		
Click to expand...

Enjoy your night 👍🏻


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2022)

Just look up because that’s where the ball will be - kick kick kick


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 19, 2022)

Not going to plan so far


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 19, 2022)

France looking good and England making some basic errors again. Why are there southern hemisphere refs in the 6 Nations? Are there a lack of suitable refs from the 6 Nations countries or do they simply bring in the best refs no matter where in the world they're from?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2022)

England getting what they deserve- poor game plan and even worse execution of that game plan , Ref helping out the French as well.

The one positive is it might help giving Jones the boot



ColchesterFC said:



			France looking good and England making some basic errors again. Why are there southern hemisphere refs in the 6 Nations? Are there a lack of suitable refs from the 6 Nations countries or do they simply bring in the best refs no matter where in the world they're from?
		
Click to expand...

They get appointed by World Rugby so could be anyone except the country that’s playing


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Mar 19, 2022)

Certainly going France’s way, but what an atmosphere 🏉


----------



## Imurg (Mar 19, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Certainly going France’s way, but what an atmosphere 🏉
		
Click to expand...

Haven't seen you yet.......


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Mar 19, 2022)

Imurg said:



			Haven't seen you yet.......
		
Click to expand...




Yoo Hoo 😎🏉


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 19, 2022)

Liverpoolphil said:



			They get appointed by World Rugby so could be anyone except the country that’s playing
		
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Is this a new thing or has it been going on for some time? I don't recall seeing non-European refs in the 6 Nations before but as I've previously said I watch and enjoy rugby rather than being a fan. Or possibly it's that I'm a few years out of date as my memories of refs are Nigel Owens, Wayne Barnes and Roman Poite.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Mar 19, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			Thanks for that. Is this a new thing or has it been going on for some time? I don't recall seeing non-European refs in the 6 Nations before but as I've previously said I watch and enjoy rugby rather than being a fan. Or possibly it's that I'm a few years out of date as my memories of refs are Nigel Owens, Wayne Barnes and Roman Poite.
		
Click to expand...

Been a while now - it’s normally the main European refs that get appointed - same with the Rugby Championship but get a fair amount of crossover


----------



## JamesR (Mar 19, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



View attachment 41894

Yoo Hoo 😎🏉





Click to expand...

Good god, I thought Picasso had retired


----------



## upsidedown (Mar 19, 2022)

ColchesterFC said:



			France looking good and England making some basic errors again. Why are there southern hemisphere refs in the 6 Nations? Are there a lack of suitable refs from the 6 Nations countries or do they simply bring in the best refs no matter where in the world they're from?
		
Click to expand...

Happened around mid to late 90 's I think. 
Walsh and OBrien being 2 I remember 😉


----------



## Piece (Mar 19, 2022)

France worthy champions. I thought England looked quite good and I'd like to think there's enough talent to build for the WC. French ruck speed was something else.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Mar 19, 2022)

upsidedown said:



			Happened around mid to late 90 's I think.
Walsh and OBrien being 2 I remember 😉
		
Click to expand...

In my defence I did spend most of the 90's very drunk so might not have noticed at the time. This also applies to the 00's and the 10's.


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 19, 2022)

Sir Clive had it right at half time.  Keep the ball in possession and don't hoof it away.


----------



## Leftitshort (Mar 19, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Sir Clive had it right at half time.  Keep the ball in possession and don't hoof it away.
		
Click to expand...

Clive has been right about nothing since 2001


----------



## Pants (Mar 19, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



View attachment 41894

Yoo Hoo 😎🏉





Click to expand...

Good lord!!  I can see why you were wearing a hoodie for your avatar piccie


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 19, 2022)

Leftitshort said:



			Clive has been right about nothing since 2001
		
Click to expand...

Says ?


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 19, 2022)

SocketRocket said:



			Says ?
		
Click to expand...

Leftitshort!


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 20, 2022)

France justifiably 6N champs. More (Gallic?) flair and all round performance.
My personal criticism of the current style of Rugby (exhibited) still holds - far too much 'negative' play from there being so many bodies in the 'back line', so the game is more down to physical attrition than flair/skill.


----------



## Doon frae Troon (Mar 20, 2022)

Good 6N all round every team had it's moment of glory.
Looks good for Europe at the World Cup.


----------



## Slime (Mar 20, 2022)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Good 6N all round every team had it's moment of glory.
*Looks good for Europe at the World Cup.*

Click to expand...

Aren't Wales in Europe?


----------



## SocketRocket (Mar 20, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Leftitshort!
		
Click to expand...

Not Sir Clive then, apparently he doesn't know what he's talking about.


----------



## spongebob59 (Mar 20, 2022)

It is now time for Jones to go (overdue).
He should have written this six nations off long ago and looked toward to The World Cup.
Yesterday England did very well but the result reflected the gap between the teams’ developments.
Firstly Smith should have been selected long ago. What a player. His skill level and game awareness us breathtaking and it is hard for others to keep up but he is an excellent orchester conductor. I was particularly impressed by the miles that he ran: catching balls in the 22; stopping moves out wide; going forward; changing the attack from the short side to the open. Then his goal kicking!
Jones finally finds a scrum-half with flair that is on his wavelength and gives him an extra half yard by delaying defences and then leaves him on the bench to play a has-been carthorse!
I don’t blame Youngs, he has had a good career but he should have been put out to grass long ago.
Then we come to Full Back. Jones was too reluctant to let Brown go. He should have brought in new talent to work under him, learning to play at that level. He hung on to him for far too long and then used utility players in that position. He finally selects a player with potential in Steward and instead of giving him the experience of playing against a team like France, he puts him on the wing!
Furbank is an interesting player, but he was not part of the England team in that match. He was like a gear cog with a few teeth missing - it did not quite fit nor do the machine much good.
I would now replace Jones with somebody with more vision and less stubbornness and reluctance to embrace change. I would also co-opt a redundant, unsupported, England Sevens coach to work with the backs to make the most of the wide open spaces created by new selection closer to the scrum.
The Premiership has too good a pool of talent to make-do-and-mend at international level.
I watched much of the game again to see where it was lost.
Yes, Curry was sorely missed and we don’t have a commanding number eight, but the pack was impressive.
The backs are the problem and again down to the lack of vision from Jones.
Tugiali is outstanding but he is never fit! Instead of playing good centres or utility players in that position, sizeable, direct, safe, specialist inside centres should have been identified in The Premiership and brought on at that level. That would have provided a focus for the pack, drawn in défenses and given Randall and Smith extra space.
As good as players like Marchant are, they have all been too similar and straightforward for défenses.
Jones has had a problem with injuries on the wing - May and Watson. He has not identified new talent or given exciting specialist wingers experience at that level. Instead he has used utility backs as a band aid. There are talented players out there with plenty of gas who can dive in at the corner. Why have they been ignored?

Here end my Sunday morning rambling rant!


----------



## AmandaJR (Mar 20, 2022)

Had to laugh. BBC just advertising their 6 Nations Highlights later today - "(not in Wales)"


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Mar 20, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			It is now time for Jones to go (overdue).
He should have written this six nations off long ago and looked toward to The World Cup.
Yesterday England did very well but the result reflected the gap between the teams’ developments.
Firstly Smith should have been selected long ago. What a player. His skill level and game awareness us breathtaking and it is hard for others to keep up but he is an excellent orchester conductor. I was particularly impressed by the miles that he ran: catching balls in the 22; stopping moves out wide; going forward; changing the attack from the short side to the open. Then his goal kicking!
Jones finally finds a scrum-half with flair that is on his wavelength and gives him an extra half yard by delaying defences and then leaves him on the bench to play a has-been carthorse!
I don’t blame Youngs, he has had a good career but he should have been put out to grass long ago.
Then we come to Full Back. Jones was too reluctant to let Brown go. He should have brought in new talent to work under him, learning to play at that level. He hung on to him for far too long and then used utility players in that position. He finally selects a player with potential in Steward and instead of giving him the experience of playing against a team like France, he puts him on the wing!
Furbank is an interesting player, but he was not part of the England team in that match. He was like a gear cog with a few teeth missing - it did not quite fit nor do the machine much good.
I would now replace Jones with somebody with more vision and less stubbornness and reluctance to embrace change. I would also co-opt a redundant, unsupported, England Sevens coach to work with the backs to make the most of the wide open spaces created by new selection closer to the scrum.
The Premiership has too good a pool of talent to make-do-and-mend at international level.
I watched much of the game again to see where it was lost.
Yes, Curry was sorely missed and we don’t have a commanding number eight, but the pack was impressive.
The backs are the problem and again down to the lack of vision from Jones.
Tugiali is outstanding but he is never fit! Instead of playing good centres or utility players in that position, sizeable, direct, safe, specialist inside centres should have been identified in The Premiership and brought on at that level. That would have provided a focus for the pack, drawn in défenses and given Randall and Smith extra space.
As good as players like Marchant are, they have all been too similar and straightforward for défenses.
Jones has had a problem with injuries on the wing - May and Watson. He has not identified new talent or given exciting specialist wingers experience at that level. Instead he has used utility backs as a band aid. There are talented players out there with plenty of gas who can dive in at the corner. Why have they been ignored?

Here end my Sunday morning rambling rant!
		
Click to expand...

And breathe. So if Jones should go, who would you replace him with and do you think they'll have enough time to drag England towards being competitive in the world cup


----------



## Val (Mar 20, 2022)

France deserved winners, Ireland very solid and England ok in fits and busts. Seriously disappointed in Scotland  should have beaten Wales in Cardiff and we were poor the last 60 in Dublin. Just completed my first 6N grand slam of matches home and away, had a great time.

Loved that last minute Italy try, what a roar for it in Dublin.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 20, 2022)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And breathe. So if Jones should go, who would you replace him with and do you think they'll have enough time to drag England towards being competitive in the world cup
		
Click to expand...

So many options, aside from the much touted Erasmus, you have Baxter, you have Borthwick and his backroom team, you have Scot Robertson, even Garland for a stint through the world cup. Plenty of options better than Jones but the RFU already said they are happy so being short sighted as usual but may lack funding to sack him


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 20, 2022)

spongebob59 said:



			It is now time for Jones to go (overdue).
He should have written this six nations off long ago and looked toward to The World Cup.
Yesterday England did very well but the result reflected the gap between the teams’ developments.
Firstly Smith should have been selected long ago. What a player. His skill level and game awareness us breathtaking and it is hard for others to keep up but he is an excellent orchester conductor. I was particularly impressed by the miles that he ran: catching balls in the 22; stopping moves out wide; going forward; changing the attack from the short side to the open. Then his goal kicking!
Jones finally finds a scrum-half with flair that is on his wavelength and gives him an extra half yard by delaying defences and then leaves him on the bench to play a has-been carthorse!
I don’t blame Youngs, he has had a good career but he should have been put out to grass long ago.
Then we come to Full Back. Jones was too reluctant to let Brown go. He should have brought in new talent to work under him, learning to play at that level. He hung on to him for far too long and then used utility players in that position. He finally selects a player with potential in Steward and instead of giving him the experience of playing against a team like France, he puts him on the wing!
Furbank is an interesting player, but he was not part of the England team in that match. He was like a gear cog with a few teeth missing - it did not quite fit nor do the machine much good.
I would now replace Jones with somebody with more vision and less stubbornness and reluctance to embrace change. I would also co-opt a redundant, unsupported, England Sevens coach to work with the backs to make the most of the wide open spaces created by new selection closer to the scrum.
The Premiership has too good a pool of talent to make-do-and-mend at international level.
I watched much of the game again to see where it was lost.
Yes, Curry was sorely missed and we don’t have a commanding number eight, but the pack was impressive.
The backs are the problem and again down to the lack of vision from Jones.
Tugiali is outstanding but he is never fit! Instead of playing good centres or utility players in that position, sizeable, direct, safe, specialist inside centres should have been identified in The Premiership and brought on at that level. That would have provided a focus for the pack, drawn in défenses and given Randall and Smith extra space.
As good as players like Marchant are, they have all been too similar and straightforward for défenses.
Jones has had a problem with injuries on the wing - May and Watson. He has not identified new talent or given exciting specialist wingers experience at that level. Instead he has used utility backs as a band aid. There are talented players out there with plenty of gas who can dive in at the corner. Why have they been ignored?

Here end my Sunday morning rambling rant!
		
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree Jones has he "favourites" (Farrell for example) I think it's greatly wrong to overlook the RFU's stubborness not to recruit Shaun Edwards when he left Wasps, and went to Wales. Then when he finished there, he's gone to France and made their defence immense. The RFU have to take the blame for letting an ex Rugby League player go and improve the defences of 2 of Englands opponents so much.
I know Englands tackling went downhill with Robinson and Farrell, but their is a man who would sort that out, but we let him take the sheckle of our opponents because the RFU are too stubborn.


----------



## Captainron (Mar 21, 2022)

South Africa won the World Cup with a new coach appointed 18 months before the last one. It can be done but it takes balls from the governing body. England has the largest talent pool in the game.


----------



## IanM (Mar 21, 2022)

Lots of empty seats in Cardiff for last two games.

WRU overcharging terribly.   Bit like the thread about green fees/subs price holes. But the fans let them know,  that's enough!

South Wales isn't a wealthy area... (there are some exemptions) but they had a clear demonstration that many won't pay £100 to watch an International. 

My regular golf game were talking about going to Bristol/Bath recently.  We were quoted £60. We didn't bother.


----------



## JamesR (Mar 21, 2022)

Captainron said:



			South Africa won the World Cup with a new coach appointed 18 months before the last one. It can be done but it takes balls from the governing body. England has the largest talent pool in the game.
		
Click to expand...

Talent wise we have a lot of decent-good players, but not enough world class players.

NZ, France and SA all have several players who challenge for best in the world in their respective positions. Do England have enough, I’d say not.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Mar 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Lots of empty seats in Cardiff for last two games.

WRU overcharging terribly.   Bit like the thread about green fees/subs price holes. But the fans let them know,  that's enough!

South Wales isn't a wealthy area... (there are some exemptions) but they had a clear demonstration that many won't pay £100 to watch an International.

My regular golf game were talking about going to Bristol/Bath recently.  We were quoted £60. We didn't bother.
		
Click to expand...

Is it they won’t pay the ticket price or more  that people are still nervous about masses of close contact and the risk of CV19?


----------



## IanM (Mar 21, 2022)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Is it they won’t pay the ticket price or more  that people are still nervous about masses of close contact and the risk of CV19?
		
Click to expand...

Judging by the chat in an absolutely packed golf  clubhouse on Saturday watching on a big screen,  it's the price.


----------



## Val (Mar 21, 2022)

IanM said:



			Judging by the chat in an absolutely packed golf  clubhouse on Saturday watching on a big screen,  it's the price.
		
Click to expand...

It's a scandal the cost at the Principality tbh. I was down for the Scotland game, 4 rows from the back of the 3rd tier was £100, the cheapest ticket. There is no need for it


----------



## GB72 (Mar 21, 2022)

Val said:



			It's a scandal the cost at the Principality tbh. I was down for the Scotland game, 4 rows from the back of the 3rd tier was £100, the cheapest ticket. There is no need for it
		
Click to expand...

Totally agree but suspect that it is also the only way of funding club rugby in Wales. With the WRU insisting that players must play in Wales to represent their country, they they have to contract or subsidies player salaries to bring them back from the Premiership. Twickenham has enough idiots with more money than sense to pay whatever is costs, I am glad to see that Wales do not.


----------



## Carlwm (Mar 22, 2022)

Haven't had a chance to see the games yet - busy weekend - but I've just seen the results. I know that Italy have been improving but I'm in shock that they managed to turn us over. Great for them, horrendous for us. Wayne Pivac & Stephen Jones seem to still be in their posts, somehow. More grim times ahead unless we appoint a decent head coach and attacks guru.


----------



## spongebob59 (Mar 22, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Haven't had a chance to see the games yet - busy weekend - but I've just seen the results. I know that Italy have been improving but I'm in shock that they managed to turn us over. Great for them, horrendous for us. Wayne Pivac & Stephen Jones seem to still be in their posts, somehow. More grim times ahead unless we appoint a decent head coach and attacks guru.
		
Click to expand...

It was fairly bone headed to start AWJ just because of him getting 150 caps and leaving Rowlands on the bench when he was fully match fit and up to speed.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2022)

Val said:



			It's a scandal the cost at the Principality tbh. I was down for the Scotland game, 4 rows from the back of the 3rd tier was £100, the cheapest ticket. There is no need for it
		
Click to expand...

That is, indeed, a horrendous cost. However, with only about 3/4 the capacity of Twickenham and Stade de France, there has to be some allowance made. Ireland are even worse off in that regard.
I hope the 'tour' fulfilled your hopes. I've watched International games in 3 of the stadiums, but not in the same season (nor for 5/6 Nations). Very different atmospheres! CA Park certainly had the 'best atmosphere', though all were memorable.


----------



## greenone (Mar 22, 2022)

Carlwm said:



			Haven't had a chance to see the games yet - busy weekend - but I've just seen the results. I know that Italy have been improving but I'm in shock that they managed to turn us over. Great for them, horrendous for us. Wayne Pivac & Stephen Jones seem to still be in their posts, somehow. More grim times ahead unless we appoint a decent head coach and attacks guru.
		
Click to expand...

Root and branch reform of the WRU is required. The success of the national team has covered over the cracks of the mess it is in for numerous years, not for much longer I fear.


----------



## GB72 (Mar 22, 2022)

greenone said:



			Root and branch reform of the WRU is required. The success of the national team has covered over the cracks of the mess it is in for numerous years, not for much longer I fear.
		
Click to expand...

Not sure how they deal with the problem of the regional teams that are neither drawing in the support nor developing the players. Will not be long before those who have developed with Premiership clubs become wary of moving to the regions as quite a few now have been 'encouraged' to move with the promise of national rugby and ended up on the scrap heap.


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2022)

greenone said:



			Root and branch reform of the WRU is required. The success of the national team has covered over the cracks of the mess it is in for numerous years, not for much longer I fear.
		
Click to expand...

To me, it's a numbers game - though Scotland, with the fewest registered players, is punching against its weight in that regard. England has nearly twice the number of registered players as Wales and not far that ratio cf Ireland.
Any Welsh 'play for a Welsh team' requirement for consideration for the National team is counter-productive imo.
I


----------



## Val (Mar 22, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			That is, indeed, a horrendous cost. However, with only about 3/4 the capacity of Twickenham and Stade de France, there has to be some allowance made. Ireland are even worse off in that regard.
I hope the 'tour' fulfilled your hopes. I've watched International games in 3 of the stadiums, but not in the same season (nor for 5/6 Nations). Very different atmospheres! CA Park certainly had the 'best atmosphere', though all were memorable.
		
Click to expand...

74k is still a huge stadium, not that smaller than Twickers and larger than Murrayfield which despite being aold our frequently the last 5 years haven't milked prices the same.

I get why they do it, it's just too much now.

The tour was magic, the only stadium I've not seen an international in is Twickers although have been to a few Army v Navy games but nothing beats internationals.

Will be a Twickers next year to complete the set before heading to France for the RWC


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2022)

Val said:



			74k is still a huge stadium, not that smaller than Twickers and larger than Murrayfield which despite being aold our frequently the last 5 years haven't milked prices the same.
...
		
Click to expand...

Doh! I think I looked up Cardiff Arms Park's capacity! Living in the past (where I watched ABs v Wales) for a couple of minutes!


----------



## PhilTheFragger (Mar 22, 2022)

Foxholer said:



			Doh! I think I looked up Cardiff Arms Park's capacity! Living in the past (where I watched ABs v Wales) for a couple of minutes! 

Click to expand...

Foxy this is unlike you, first spelling mistakes and then duff gen, are you OK

Careful or your position as Chief Forum Pedant might be reassigned elsewhere, then what will you do ?


----------



## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2022)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Foxy this is unlike you, first spelling *mistakes* and then duff gen, are you OK

Careful or your position as Chief Forum Pedant might be reassigned elsewhere, then what will you do ?
		
Click to expand...

Singular as far as I know.
I'll ignore the (punctuation) errors in that post! So many, they must have been deliberate!
Better? Maybe it was hunger/thirsty. Resolved now, so expect normal service.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Sep 15, 2022)

Sad news 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1570451112565645312


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Sep 15, 2022)

I don't remember him as a player but I enjoyed his commentary. A wonderful and calming voice, a very fine broadcaster. Sad news.


----------



## IanM (Sep 15, 2022)

Sad news, only 65.  Super broadcaster, not just on sport.


----------



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Sep 19, 2022)

Sad news indeed…I can hear his deep Welsh tones in my head as I type.


----------



## D-S (Sep 19, 2022)

Moving tribute from Andrew Cotter:-

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1571148309091213314


----------

