# Is Russia preparing for confrontation



## Fish (Nov 23, 2015)

I'm not going to say preparing for war as I know first hand that all countries prepare themselves for the "what if" scenarios and we all have a constant state of readiness and immediate action planned, but, when Russian subs are spotted in our waters and mainly in areas where key cables and pipelines are laid, which if severed, could have a key part to play in our communications, should we be overly concerned when a Russian sub is spotted too close to comfort?

I'm personally aware of Russian subs being spotted before in Scottish and Irish waters both in the 70's & 80's but in the current climate isn't it pushing the boundaries a little far?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-348969...=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 23, 2015)

Fish said:



			I'm not going to say preparing for war as I know first hand that all countries prepare themselves for the "what if" scenarios and we all have a constant state of readiness and immediate action planned, but, when Russian subs are spotted in our waters and mainly in areas where key cables and pipelines are laid, which if severed, could have a key part to play in our communications, should we be overly concerned when a Russian sub is spotted too close to comfort?

I'm personally aware of Russian subs being spotted before in Scottish and Irish waters both in the 70's & 80's but in the current climate isn't it pushing the boundaries a little far?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-348969...=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter

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Let us hope the do not do anything until 2023/5 when we will have our aircraft carriers, fighter planes, air surveillance and additional ground troops fit for purpose.


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## MegaSteve (Nov 23, 2015)

I believe it suits Putin to keep the 'friction' with 'the west' to a high level...


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## freddielong (Nov 23, 2015)

I have thought that for a while it's like he just wants to fight someone and isn't really to bothered about who that is.

I guess when things aren't great in the country, a war is a good distraction.


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

RAF likely to be a major winner in the next SDSR along with SF.

Powers to be seem to forget that nothing can be won without folks on the ground or the fact that SF are recruited from within. Soon to have very little within, are we doomed.


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 23, 2015)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Let us hope the do not do anything until 2023/5 when we will have our aircraft carriers, fighter planes, air surveillance and additional ground troops fit for purpose.
		
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We're borrowing the French sub hunters for the 3rd time in 12 months.
Not sure it's confrontation they are after more information about trident?


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## Grogger (Nov 23, 2015)

It's pretty common to find the Ruskies around our waters. They've prevented me from going home to see my family on many occasions due to them wanting to test our response times.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

And you can't ever forget the importance of air power 

It's about time the RAF was the winner in the review - they ripped apart during the last one - all other nations investing in their Air Force whilst the Uk strip it to the bare bones


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## delc (Nov 23, 2015)

I can't believe how much a Tory Government is running down our military services and police forces at a time of increased World tensions. Paying off our national debt will mean nothing if we are taken over by the Russians or Islamic State!


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 23, 2015)

delc said:



			I can't believe how much a Tory Government is running down our military services and police forces at a time of increased World tensions. *Paying off our national debt will mean nothing if we are taken over by the Russians or Islamic State*!
		
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Yes, and think what they will do to the traffic on the roads and the size of the hole on the green if they come to power..


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## delc (Nov 23, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Yes, and think what they will do to the traffic on the roads and the size of the hole on the green if they come to power..

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Is your flippant comment really necessary?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Yes, and think what they will do to the traffic on the roads and the size of the hole on the green if they come to power..

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Not to forget making the Isle of Bute the capital and seat of power in the new republic


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 23, 2015)

delc said:



			Is your flippant comment really necessary?
		
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As necessary/sensible/likely to happen as your comments about us being taken over by Russia.


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 23, 2015)

pbrown7582 said:



			We're borrowing the French sub hunters for the 3rd time in 12 months.
Not sure it's confrontation they are after more information about trident?
		
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I would imagine the Russians are not even remotely interested in Trident.
More likely to be the communications cables.


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## delc (Nov 23, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			As necessary/sensible/likely to happen as your comments about us being taken over by Russia.
		
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Not that improbable, considering they have much bigger armed forces than we do!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

delc said:



			Not that improbable, considering they have much bigger armed forces than we do!
		
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They have had for decades and decades - how many times have they attempted to take us over ?!


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## MarkE (Nov 23, 2015)

That's where Trident (any nuclear deterrent)  is the great leveller. Russia will posture to the west because it suits them to show their people how strong they are, but they could never invade or take over a fellow nuclear power. M.A.D.


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## User62651 (Nov 23, 2015)

I think there are numerous Putin targets such as more of Ukraine and Finland that would make much easier targets if he is looking for a scrap. 
A retired submariner told me during the cold war they regularly played cat and mouse with russian(soviet) subs right up into the Clyde estuary, joe public don't know the half of what goes on. Subs can never admit to their presence as stealth and being invisible is what its all about, so when trawlers get pulled under etc Navy just say wasn't us when there is no other feasible reason other than a sub.
What'll happen to GM Forum if they do sever our cables, tssk... damn Ruskies.


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And you can't ever forget the importance of air power 

It's about time the RAF was the winner in the review - they ripped apart during the last one - all other nations investing in their Air Force whilst the Uk strip it to the bare bones
		
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Agreed but its worthless without an all arms ability.

Gulf War 1 - 6 months of bombardment by RAF.

100 hours of boots on the ground (read tanks crossed the start line) and endex was called.


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## Astraeus (Nov 23, 2015)

It is absolutely nothing extraordinary.

One of the Royal Navy's largest exercises is called BALTOPS and happens to take place in reasonably close proximity to Russia despite them having not been an enemy for over 20 years.  What the Russians are doing in our waters is only marginally more provocative than the fact that our wargames continue to hark back to a bygone era of superpower wars rather than deal with the more realistic immediate threat of unconventional warfare.


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## Smiffy (Nov 23, 2015)

Maybe they were dropping Sean Connery off???


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 23, 2015)

Grogger said:



			It's pretty common to find the Ruskies around our waters. They've prevented me from going home to see my family on many occasions due to them wanting to test our response times.
		
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FRE?


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 23, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Maybe they were dropping Sean Connery off???
		
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We shall shail into hishtory....


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

Defense Debate 1430 hrs.


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## Smiffy (Nov 23, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			We shall shail into hishtory....
		
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Absholutely.


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## Grogger (Nov 23, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			FRE?
		
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Yeah! Hated being activated. 

Renember sailing back off deployment 2 days before we get alongside after a 6 month trip we got activated to chase the Russians in the Irish Sea! Finally got home 2 weeks later


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 23, 2015)

What you on?

Pompey 23's for me

Reichmond and Kent specifically between 99-2009

Got activated many many times

Honking up in the nortehrn Atlantic getting battered of massive goffers


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## Grogger (Nov 23, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			What you on?

Pompey 23's for me

Reichmond and Kent specifically between 99-2009

Got activated many many times

Honking up in the nortehrn Atlantic getting battered of massive goffers
		
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That was when I was on the Edinburgh. I was on Iron Duke as well. Hated 23's but loved my time on 42's

Had a couple of mates on the Kent. Andy Foster and Dean Evans

Im in Nelson now serving out my notice only a few months left. Loved my time in the mob.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Agreed but its worthless without an all arms ability.

Gulf War 1 - 6 months of bombardment by RAF.

100 hours of boots on the ground (read tanks crossed the start line) and endex was called.
		
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Jan 17 1991 the Air War started 

Feb 24 1991 - Ground troops start 

Mar 3 1991 - Ceasefire 

6 months of bombardment ?


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Jan 17 1991 the Air War started 

Feb 24 1991 - Ground troops start 

Mar 3 1991 - Ceasefire 

6 months of bombardment ?
		
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Apologise on the air strikes, you are correct.

I believe Kuwait was clear of all Iraq troops by 28 Feb and that was the day I think you'll find Bush declared the ceasefire.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Apologise on the air strikes, you are correct.

I believe Kuwait was clear of all Iraq troops by 28 Feb and that was the day I think you'll find Bush declared the ceasefire.
		
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Yep Bush declared the cease fire on 28 Feb but was accepted on Mar 3rd by Iraq from UN - it was the day my basic training started


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## Rooter (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep Bush declared the cease fire on 28 Feb but was accepted on Mar 3rd by Iraq from UN - it was the day my basic training started
		
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Crikey, your a lot older than i thought you were! I was picking spots and trying to snog girls at the school disco when that happened.


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yep Bush declared the cease fire on 28 Feb but was accepted on Mar 3rd by Iraq from UN - it was the day my basic training started
		
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Feb 26-27 was the night I was on Highway 8, not to be confused with Highway 80.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Feb 26-27 was the night I was on Highway 8, not to be confused with Highway 80.
		
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Road to Basra ?


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Road to Basra ?
		
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Yep, luckily there was no need when we left Kuwait for us to call in ATO to rebox our main armament ammo. :lol:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Yep, luckily there was no need when we left Kuwait for us to call in ATO to rebox our main armament ammo. :lol:
		
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Seen the mess that was left behind at Highway 80 about 3 years after - not a pretty sight


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## Jacko_G (Nov 23, 2015)

Get Trident out of Scotland.

If Westminister want Trident then store Trident in London. I don't want nuclear weapons within 50 miles of my abode!


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 23, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Get Trident out of Scotland.

If Westminister want Trident then store Trident in London. I don't want nuclear weapons within 50 miles of my abode!
		
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Would you like the Nuclear Weapons to protect your abode though ?

There is only one place to house the Trident - exactly where it is helping thousands of your fellow countrymen be in employment also


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## Fish (Nov 23, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Crikey, your a lot older than i thought you were! I was picking spots and trying to snog girls at the school disco when that happened.
		
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I was 13yrs in then, loads of various tours under my belt, got more salad dressing than, well, salad &#128514;&#128514;


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

So we are going to be able to mobilize 2 Brigades by 2025 love the MP who stood up and said "in my days in the military we talked about Divisions", classic.


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			So we are going to be able to mobilize 2 Brigades by 2025 love the MP who stood up and said "in my days in the military we talked about Divisions", classic.
		
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Where's he going to find 50,000 troops from, he's only going to have 80,000 regulars if he's lucky.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Where's he going to find 50,000 troops from, he's only going to have 80,000 regulars if he's lucky.
		
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Modern Brigade has between 3,000-5,000 Soldiers, depending on role


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## Astraeus (Nov 23, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Modern Brigade has between 3,000-5,000 Soldiers, depending on role
		
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I think Old Skier may have been referring to the fact that we can't countenance two divisions, i.e. ~40-000 to 50,000 soldiers.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Nov 23, 2015)

Astraeus said:



			I think Old Skier may have been referring to the fact that we can't countenance two divisions, i.e. ~40-000 to 50,000 soldiers.
		
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Aah ok, confused as we have 2 Divisions now!


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## Old Skier (Nov 23, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Aah ok, confused as we have 2 Divisions now!
		
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I want my divisions back I only feel safe when there are 4 about


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## Craigg (Nov 23, 2015)

As already said, it's nothing unusual really.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-russian-submarine-near-scotland-9966080.html


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 23, 2015)

Craigg said:



			As already said, it's nothing unusual really.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-russian-submarine-near-scotland-9966080.html

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No, it's nothing new....but it is severely embarrasing to have to ask the French, American and Canadian forces to trace and track a Russian sub in our own waters.....
Never mind, I'm sure Cameron is quite happy giving aid to India and China rather than supporting our own forces and defences.
Lets just hope those new aircraft carriers don't actually need any aircraft on them to scare the enemy away....


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## Craigg (Nov 23, 2015)

Bunkermagnet said:



			No, it's nothing new....but it is severely embarrasing to have to ask the French, American and Canadian forces to trace and track a Russian sub in our own waters.....
Never mind, I'm sure Cameron is quite happy giving aid to India and China rather than supporting our own forces and defences.
Lets just hope those new aircraft carriers don't actually need any aircraft on them to scare the enemy away....
		
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Point taken, and yes, rather embarrassing.
 I was just responding to the original question, and whether we should read anything into the fact that the Ruskies are once again cruising our northern coastline.


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## Astraeus (Nov 23, 2015)

Isn't being able to call upon the help of other sovereign nations the entire raison d'etre for an alliance such as NATO?


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 23, 2015)

What a load of guff he came out with. Not withstanding our still limited military capability and the question on where these extra troops will come from, will the whole thing function if he culls the MOD civilian workforce?


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## chippa1909 (Nov 23, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Get Trident out of Scotland.

If Westminister want Trident then store Trident in London. I don't want nuclear weapons within 50 miles of my abode!
		
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I see the DUP offered in parliament today to house it in Northern Ireland. 
Seems a good solution to me.


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## Craigg (Nov 23, 2015)

Jacko_G said:



			Get Trident out of Scotland.

If Westminister want Trident then store Trident in London. I don't want nuclear weapons within 50 miles of my abode!
		
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Happy to have the majority of your electricity produced by nuclear power though?
Maybe a thread for another day.


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## Astraeus (Nov 23, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			I see the DUP offered in parliament today to house it in Northern Ireland. 
Seems a good solution to me.
		
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It depends how close to the West coast Jacko lives, he could still easily find himself within 50 miles of the Trident base.  For that matter he'd best hope he doesn't live too close to the shore or else the at-sea part of the CASND could also encroach.


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 24, 2015)

Grogger said:



			That was when I was on the Edinburgh. I was on Iron Duke as well. Hated 23's but loved my time on 42's

Had a couple of mates on the Kent. Andy Foster and Dean Evans

Im in Nelson now serving out my notice only a few months left. Loved my time in the mob.
		
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I was good mates with Fozzy, i know Crash too.

Fozzy got canned during the redundancy i think?

Im guessing you are a stoker? Thats why you would love stinking 42's..... 

Killock Golly before i left in 99.

Miss it every day, regardless of how well civvy life is going.

Once a Matelot, always a Matelot

Perk of being in the senior service.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			I was good mates with Fozzy, i know Crash too.

Fozzy got canned during the redundancy i think?

Im guessing you are a stoker? Thats why you would love stinking 42's..... 

Killock Golly before i left in 99.

Miss it every day, regardless of how well civvy life is going.

Once a Matelot, always a Matelot

Perk of being in the senior service.....
		
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I wonder if we have enough for some sort of tri service comp ?


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 24, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I wonder if we have enough for some sort of tri service comp ?
		
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I would have thought so.

Seen plenty of references to the life, from a few on here.

The problem would be getting them out the bar in the morning though...

With you being an ex crab fat, i am sure you could ping an ex squaddie to carry your bag around for you. :ears:


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 24, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			I would have thought so.

Seen plenty of references to the life, from a few on here.

The problem would be getting them out the bar in the morning though...

With you being an ex crab fat, i am sure you could ping an ex squaddie to carry your bag around for you. :ears:
		
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Don't think they would be allowed near the hotel


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 24, 2015)

liverpoolphil said:



			don't think they would be allowed near the hotel :d
		
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:d


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## Grogger (Nov 24, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			I was good mates with Fozzy, i know Crash too.

Fozzy got canned during the redundancy i think?

Im guessing you are a stoker? Thats why you would love stinking 42's..... 

Killock Golly before i left in 99.

Miss it every day, regardless of how well civvy life is going.

Once a Matelot, always a Matelot

Perk of being in the senior service.....
		
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Small world! Yeah I joined up with Fozzy. Not seen him for about a year but we were good mates. Both of us lived in Warrington so saw each other quite a bit. He got married a couple of years ago and I moved to Bury so haven't spoke to each other for a bit. Top lad though!! 

Yeah im a stoker. Who else could love 42's Hahahaha!! 

I'll miss the lads and the runs ashore when I'm gone but the navy's changed loads in the last couple of years and I don't enjoy it anymore. Shame really but I said when the bad days out weigh the good I'll leave


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## chippa1909 (Nov 24, 2015)

Turkey has just shot down a Russian plane. That's gonna help the situation.


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## HomerJSimpson (Nov 24, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			Turkey has just shot down a Russian plane. That's gonna help the situation.
		
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Of all the nations you really didn't want to shoot down surely Russia is top of the list. Seems (allegedly via news reports) warnings were given but Russia do seem keen on pushing limits and maybe this time brinkmanship went too far. Not sure they will take this lightly though


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## chippa1909 (Nov 24, 2015)

Russia is out to prove that Syria belongs to them.


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## pbrown7582 (Nov 24, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			Turkey has just shot down a Russian plane. That's gonna help the situation.
		
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that's got to be a brave decision by turkey!


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## Hacker Khan (Nov 24, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			Turkey has just shot down a Russian plane. That's gonna help the situation.
		
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Mm, I'll hold off on booking the Belek trip for a bit now.


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## Radbourne2010 (Nov 24, 2015)

Like Turkey (s) voting for Christmas. Shoot down your neighbours war plane over a foreign country then stand back & watch all hell break loose in & around your borders. Serves them right for taking over half of a sovereign Commonwealth country back in 1974. 

Spring trip to Belek cancelled... :angry:


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## Old Skier (Nov 24, 2015)

Russia chanced their arm and lost it, shades of the Yogoslav conflict. 1 Fencer down, these things are Cold War relics and older than Phil. I wonder if the helicopter was a Hook.


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## Fish (Nov 24, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			Russia chanced their arm and lost it, shades of the Yogoslav conflict. 1 Fencer down, these things are Cold War relics and older than Phil. I wonder if the helicopter was a Hook.
		
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They have to be the worst country ever to play Call my Bluff, they have an arrogance believing that countries won't react when they test their resolve, well they just got a kick in the gonads, again!


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## Old Skier (Nov 24, 2015)

I wouldn't be surprised if the wrath of Russia will now come down on non IS rebels.


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## Fish (Nov 24, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			I wouldn't be surprised if the wrath of Russia will now come down on non IS rebels.
		
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Who ever is/was responsible will not matter, Putin will be under pressure to produce a pound of flesh and he won't care where he gets it from..


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## Astraeus (Nov 24, 2015)

Old Skier said:



			I wouldn't be surprised if the wrath of Russia will now come down on non IS rebels.
		
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I am pretty sure that is what Russia had been doing prior to this incident. Their sorties were over Turkmen areas, not ISIS enclaves.


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## chippa1909 (Nov 24, 2015)

Astraeus said:



			I am pretty sure that is what Russia had been doing prior to this incident. Their sorties were over Turkmen areas, not ISIS enclaves.
		
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The Russians have been bombing a lot of the ISIS oil tanker convoys heading into Turkey.


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## Smiffy (Nov 25, 2015)

Hacker Khan said:



			Mm, I'll hold off on booking the Belek trip for a bit now.
		
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I dunno. Could have bigger holes.
Will make putting a lot easier.


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## Fish (Nov 25, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I dunno. Could have bigger holes.
Will make putting a lot easier.
		
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&#128514;&#128514; &#128514;


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## Astraeus (Nov 25, 2015)

chippa1909 said:



			The Russians have been bombing a lot of the ISIS oil tanker convoys heading into Turkey.
		
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Possibly, if not likely, with the purpose of injuring Turkey rather than Daesh.


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## GreiginFife (Nov 25, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			What you on?

Pompey 23's for me

Reichmond and Kent specifically between 99-2009

Got activated many many times

Honking up in the nortehrn Atlantic getting battered of massive goffers
		
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You might know my mate Cammy, he was on the Kent and the Argyll around that time.


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## Tiger man (Nov 25, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I dunno. Could have bigger holes.
Will make putting a lot easier.
		
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Send Delc out there?


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 26, 2015)

GreiginFife said:



			You might know my mate Cammy, he was on the Kent and the Argyll around that time.
		
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Mike Cam?

I know a few Cammy's to be honest pal. What branch was he in?

Remember a WE artificer from your neck of the woods. Think he was on the Richmond though


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## GreiginFife (Nov 26, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			Mike Cam?

I know a few Cammy's to be honest pal. What branch was he in?

Remember a WE artificer from your neck of the woods. Think he was on the Richmond though
		
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Stuart Cameron, think he was a POET or something like that. WE sounds familiar as well though.
Think he has been on the Richmond though.


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## PhilTheFragger (Nov 26, 2015)

I do not trust the Russians one bit

They are following their own agenda in Syria, bombing groups opposed to Assad, in an effort to prolong his reign, while largely avoiding Isis.
They have been buzzing our shores for donkeys years both in the air and at sea, playing their "dare you" games and doing the same in Syria/Turkey. well Turkey have called their bluff big time on that one.

If Putin wants to be taken seriously on the world stage, he needs to stop the willy waving, commit his forces to work as a team and stop telling porky pies about everything including Ukraine


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 26, 2015)

Russians "buzzing" our shores are used to carry out trained drills - they are actually not a bad thing because we know they won't do anything serious but can be used to measure our reactions - been happening for decades now. Our reactions are sensible - Turkey used it as an excuse to take down the A/C - Russia were not going to "attack" anything in Turkey but they have Turkey the excuse to use force


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## Smiffy (Nov 26, 2015)

I'll be standing next to Cliff Richard if it all kicks off.
He hasn't had a hit in years.


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## tugglesf239 (Nov 26, 2015)

GreiginFife said:



			Stuart Cameron, think he was a POET or something like that. WE sounds familiar as well though.
Think he has been on the Richmond though.
		
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Light hair (semi ginge) with a deep broad fife accent?

Used to be an Internal communications maintainer from memory on the Richmond.


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## GreiginFife (Nov 26, 2015)

tugglesf239 said:



			Light hair (semi ginge) with a deep broad fife accent?

Used to be an Internal communications maintainer from memory on the Richmond.
		
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Thats the one. Deep voice and you are being too kind, he is a total ginja ninja .


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