# Adam Scott



## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

Are you watching sceptics, Adam Scott using Aimpoint Express, is 7 ahead and #makingeverything.


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## Bucket92 (Mar 21, 2014)

The question is; if he couldn't anchor using the broomstick putter, would he be as good as he is?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 21, 2014)

As much as I'm an Aimpoint stalwart, it's his whole game that's blowing the field away. Superb to watch. Personally I think he'll make the switch ok back to a normal putter


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## fundy (Mar 21, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As much as I'm an Aimpoint stalwart, it's his whole game that's blowing the field away. Superb to watch. Personally I think he'll make the switch ok back to a normal putter
		
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Totally disagree, think hes probably gonna suffer more than anyone when the change comes. Expect he very quickly goes the Kuchar route


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## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			As much as I'm an Aimpoint stalwart, it's his whole game that's blowing the field away. Superb to watch. Personally I think he'll make the switch ok back to a normal putter
		
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Not saying Aimpoint is sole reason for his lead Homer, as his ball striking is on a different planet at the moment, but if players are doubting the validity of Aimpoint, then on 14th should prove a point when he bombed it in from 35ft after a one finger read.


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## G1BB0 (Mar 21, 2014)

he went to a broomhandle cos he couldnt putt normally! Sorry but knowing it gonna be against the rules = should be ditched already imho


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2014)

Can you bomb it in from 35ft using a one finger aim ?!

If he misses a putt can we blame it on aimpoint ? 

Scott is smashing the field because of his ball striking and shoving the ball right next to the hole. His putting is high on confidence because of the broom handle - going to be a different story when it's banned


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## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Can you bomb it in from 35ft using a one finger aim ?!

If he misses a putt can we blame it on aimpoint ? 

Scott is smashing the field because of his ball striking and shoving the ball right next to the hole. His putting is high on confidence because of the broom handle - going to be a different story when it's banned
		
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ive only watched highlights of his 62, but from what I saw he wasn't shoving the ball right next to the hole...... And that 35ft on 14 wasn't next to the hole? And ball striking doesn't win tournaments.


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## fundy (Mar 21, 2014)

3565 said:



			ive only watched highlights of his 62, but from what I saw he wasn't shoving the ball right next to the hole...... And that 35ft on 14 wasn't next to the hole? And ball striking doesn't win tournaments.
		
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pretty sure they said he holed 5 putts from 20ft plus. whilst he is playing good, the broomhandle is working well and aimpoint plays its part - there has to be a large dose of fortune in that as well


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## G1BB0 (Mar 21, 2014)

will Mr Williams stick around if his putting goes off once the BH is banned? There lies the question


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## fundy (Mar 21, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			will Mr Williams stick around if his putting goes off once the BH is banned? There lies the question 

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hes on the verge of retiring anyway isnt he? pretty sure hes had to be talked into continuing once Scott won the masters last yr (knee trouble i believe)


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2014)

3565 said:



			ive only watched highlights of his 62, but from what I saw he wasn't shoving the ball right next to the hole...... And that 35ft on 14 wasn't next to the hole? And ball striking doesn't win tournaments.
		
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So when he misses a putt or misreads a putt does that mean aimpoint is poor ?


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## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So when he misses a putt or misreads a putt does that mean aimpoint is poor ?
		
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Dont understand your point or reply to my post? But like I've said and homer has before, Aimpoint gives you the break of a putt, you still have to aim, swing and get the speed right, and it's then down to the vagaries of the green if you hole or not.


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## Robobum (Mar 21, 2014)

If Aimpoint is solely responsible for him holing these bombs.......is that 6ft misread on the last also down to Aimpoint??

Just asking.


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## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

Robobum said:



			If Aimpoint is solely responsible for him holing these bombs.......is that 6ft misread on the last also down to Aimpoint??

Just asking. 

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Loll. Did you see him stick any fingers up in the air when he was behind the ball? 
He looked in his book to see what the break was but this wasn't the Aimpoint chart. The long putt on the last was an Aimpoiint read only thing he didn't do was to get the speed right.


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## Robobum (Mar 21, 2014)

3565 said:



			Loll. Did you see him stick any fingers up in the air when he was behind the ball? 
He looked in his book to see what the break was but this wasn't the Aimpoint chart. The long putt on the last was an Aimpoiint read only thing he didn't do was to get the speed right.
		
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Really? Speed was spot on wasn't it, exactly hole high? Either a 6' push or a 6' misread??

Either way, he had it on a string tee to green, great way to come back after a lay off!!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 21, 2014)

3565 said:



			Loll. Did you see him stick any fingers up in the air when he was behind the ball? 
He looked in his book to see what the break was but this wasn't the Aimpoint chart. The long putt on the last was an Aimpoiint read only thing he didn't do was to get the speed right.
		
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So when he sunk the putt it was because of aim point 

When he missed the putt he wasn't using aim point


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## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Really? Speed was spot on wasn't it, exactly hole high? Either a 6' push or a 6' misread??

Either way, he had it on a string tee to green, great way to come back after a lay off!!
		
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It depends, if his read was spot on, and started it online then speed is the issue, as it missed on the low side. Mind you he may of wanted to miss on the low side to give himself an easier 2nd putt.


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## Foxholer (Mar 21, 2014)

3565 said:





Robobum said:



			If Aimpoint is solely responsible for him holing these bombs.......is that 6ft misread on the last also down to Aimpoint??

Just asking. 

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Loll. Did you see him stick any fingers up in the air when he was behind the ball? 
He looked in his book to see what the break was but this wasn't the Aimpoint chart. The long putt on the last was an Aimpoiint read only thing he didn't do was to get the speed right.
		
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:rofl:

So whenever he sinks one it's because of Aimpoint; whenever he misses one it's his fault! Aimpoint can't lose! Actually, that's probably correct.

According to PGA Stats, it was his 1st round putting - in his 62 - that was the major contribution - 5 shots better than 'the field'!

So to be 7 shots ahead of 2nd is defo down to more than just putting imo.


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## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So when he sunk the putt it was because of aim point 

When he missed the putt he wasn't using aim point
		
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Just stating what I saw. On 14th he used it and holed it, on the last he used it on the long putt and missed on the low side which could be mis alignment, his stroke, his speed, just like he did on the par putt when he didn't use it.


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## Big D 88 (Mar 21, 2014)

Forgive my ignorance

whats Aimpoint?

As for Scott..he is ruining what would be a good betting tournament for me

Currently have Keegan & Noh, if it wasnt for scott being so far ahead id be confident of at least some e/w returns


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## 3565 (Mar 21, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			:rofl:

So whenever he sinks one it's because of Aimpoint; whenever he misses one it's his fault! Aimpoint can't lose! Actually, that's probably correct.

According to PGA Stats, it was his 1st round putting - in his 62 - that was the major contribution - 5 shots better than 'the field'!

So to be 7 shots ahead of 2nd is defo down to more than just putting imo.
		
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I said earlier Aimpoint not the sole reason for his lead, his tee to green is immense right now, but he is giving himself every opportunity to make the scores and is using the knowledge that has been gained by Aimpoint to help him to make putts, just like he seeks help from Butch Harmon with his swing and from his trainer for his fitness.


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## Fish (Mar 22, 2014)

If Scott wins, he cannot surpass Tiger this week at No 1, but based on points projections, would be No 1 by time they show up for Masters :thup:


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 22, 2014)

3565 said:



			Just stating what I saw. On 14th he used it and holed it, on the last he used it on the long putt and missed on the low side which could be *mis alignment, his stroke, his speed*, just like he did on the par putt when he didn't use it.
		
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Or the read? Aimpoint is a valid method, but it isn't flawless


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## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Or the read? Aimpoint is a valid method, but it isn't flawless
		
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Explain what flaws it (Aimpoint) has?

The flaws would appear to be flaws in/of the practitioner.

Scott does seem to be a user, though I haven't seen that written (pictures though). So certainly legitimises the technique, to me, with a couple of rounds like he has had! All he then has to do is hit it along the calc-ed line at the right speed. And, in his case, that's easier with the Broomhandle.


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## 3565 (Mar 22, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Or the read? Aimpoint is a valid method, but it isn't flawless
		
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Yeah valid point on the read, if you don't apply it properly then you will mis read it. But that's down to the user like Foxholer says. But I personally think that the broom handle putter is just as hard as the normal length putter IMO. The belly putter is the only one I would ban.


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## freddielong (Mar 22, 2014)

Cant get passed the feeling he is cheating using that putter if he can repeat when he has to use proper clubs then I will take him as legitimate


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## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Cant get passed the feeling he is cheating using that putter....
		
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If it's legal, then it ain't cheating!


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## freddielong (Mar 22, 2014)

But there is an unfair advantage otherwise they would not be banning it


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## G1BB0 (Mar 22, 2014)

I really like his swing, so smooth but as soon as that monstrosity gets pulled out.... NO!


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## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2014)

freddielong said:



			But there is an unfair advantage otherwise they would not be banning it
		
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No unfair advantage either - everyone else is entitled to use them.

And they are not banning them!

They 'banned' Large and Hi Cor Drivers and super-efficient grooves to. As *everyone* was using them, they can't have been giving an 'unfair advantage'!



G1BB0 said:



			I really like his swing, so smooth but as soon as that monstrosity gets pulled out.... NO!
		
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Pretty much sums up my impression too!


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## Papas1982 (Mar 22, 2014)

Im against a hiring myself as I fully believe that part of the art of putting is handling the nerves. And Adam has definitely bottled it in the past with and without anchoring. I think he'll be ok when he reverts to normal putting though as I think he has overcome such nerves as his game has come in so much.


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## freddielong (Mar 22, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			No unfair advantage either - everyone else is/was entitled to use them.

And they are not banning them!

They 'banned' Large and Hi Cor Drivers and super-efficient grooves to. As *everyone* was using them, they can't have been giving an 'unfair advantage'!


Pretty much sums up my impression too!
		
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Ok they are not banning the putters they are banning the use of the anchored putting stroke which is used with the long putter. There is an advantage as it gives golfers who cant handle pressure a way of putting using the big smooth muscles and leaving out the smaller twitchy nervous muscles and I guess we will see what happens when he has to use a proper putter again if it gives him no advantage.

The reason the drivers were banned was more to do with getting hold of the technology that was in place both the R and A and the USPGA both thought manufactures has crossed a point it would be hard to pull back from.  

Anyway its not that I don't like Adam Scott he seems like a thoroughly nice guy its just I don't like the use of his putter it doesn't feel like its in the spirit of the game, same as Phil using a ping lob wedge yes its legal (only due to the USPGA backing out of a court case in the 80's and creating a special rule) but it doesn't feel right.


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## Foxholer (Mar 22, 2014)

So doesn't that make his use of Aimpoint, or similar, the same 'unfair advantage'? Or similar 'against the spirit of the game' (whatever that is!)?

I think you were meaning USGA btw. That's the governing body for Rules, and other Golf things, in US. USPGA is Professional's organisation - like PGA here.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 22, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Explain what flaws it (Aimpoint) has?

The flaws would appear to be flaws in/of the practitioner.

Scott does seem to be a user, though I haven't seen that written (pictures though). So certainly legitimises the technique, to me, with a couple of rounds like he has had! All he then has to do is hit it along the calc-ed line at the right speed. And, in his case, that's easier with the Broomhandle.
		
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Do you actually read through the forum looking for stuff to be picky about? Clearly, in the context of this thread, I'm talking about aimpoint the method and it's users. The method itself is scientifically sound, it's implementation isn't and it's no better than any other method. Someone who can apply aimpoint well will get good reads, but so will someone who is good at applying whatever method they use.


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## USER1999 (Mar 22, 2014)

He seems a nice guy, I don't like the anchored stroke, he's a Aussie, he has a great golf swing, and a racist idiot on the bag.

Sums it up?


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## hovis (Mar 22, 2014)

Why is it that a seemingly nice guy with great talent is having a great game and instantly folk find some way of rubbishing his efforts.  Is it that hard to say " he's playing great, good on him"?


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## DAVEYBOY (Mar 22, 2014)

I like Adam Scott a lot... Did I mention he won me money at the Masters 

One of my favourite 3 players :thup:


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## Imurg (Mar 22, 2014)

Looks like it might be an interesting final round...
Not so far in the lead now!


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## USER1999 (Mar 22, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Looks like it might be an interesting final round...
Not so far in the lead now!
		
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Is stevie bottling it?


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## Big D 88 (Mar 22, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Is stevie bottling it?
		
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I hope so

Come on Keegan!


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## G1BB0 (Mar 22, 2014)

I'd rather Scott win than Bradley!


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## Big D 88 (Mar 22, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			I'd rather Scott win than Bradley!
		
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Im a fan of Keegan

And with over Â£300 riding on him winning i would love him to overhaul Scott

But if not, at least hold on to a place !!


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## G1BB0 (Mar 22, 2014)

I hope he brings it home for you, would rather a forumer win some moolah so 'go Keegan'


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## Big D 88 (Mar 22, 2014)

G1BB0 said:



			I hope he brings it home for you, would rather a forumer win some moolah so 'go Keegan' 

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thats the spirit!


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## Siren (Mar 22, 2014)

Gmac wont be giving me any money this week so cmon Keegan!


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## 3565 (Mar 23, 2014)

Why would anyone support a jittering jitterbug and takes an age to get himself to the ball. Hope Scott wins.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 23, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Looks like it might be an interesting final round...
Not so far in the lead now!
		
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Didn't see any of tonight, did aimpoint stop working


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## shivas irons (Mar 23, 2014)

Watching the golf last night I couldnt help but think that Adam Scott did have an unfair advantage with he's long putter, ok he uses it to great effect but with it being anchored to him the pendulum stroke is so smooth.Scott is an awesome ball striker but I think takes something away from he's game using the long putter, all I can see is he's game falling apart without it......


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## Foxholer (Mar 23, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Watching the golf last night I couldnt help but think that Adam Scott did have an unfair advantage with he's long putter, ok he uses it to great effect but with it being anchored to him the pendulum stroke is so smooth.Scott is an awesome ball striker but I think takes something away from he's game using the long putter, all I can see is he's game falling apart without it......
		
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How can anyone have an 'unfair advantage' when using something available to everyone?


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## shivas irons (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			How can anyone have an 'unfair advantage' when using something available to everyone?
		
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Its available to everyone but golf requires the player to be able to control the club without any aid, hence the impending ban.Scott does use the long putter very well and with the nature of those putters hence gains an advantage.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 23, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Its available to everyone but golf requires the player to be able to control the club without any aid, hence the impending ban.Scott does use the long putter very well and with the nature of those putters hence gains an advantage.
		
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But it's hardly unfair if it's available to everyone.


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## shivas irons (Mar 23, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			But it's hardly unfair if it's available to everyone.
		
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I think a lot of those guys want to play their golf in the spirit of the game, nuff said


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## Foxholer (Mar 23, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Its available to everyone but golf requires the player to be able to control the club without any aid, hence the impending ban.Scott does use the long putter very well and with the nature of those putters hence gains an advantage.
		
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Foxholer said:



			How can anyone have an 'unfair advantage' when using something available to everyone?
		
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Pin-seeker said:



			But it's hardly unfair if it's available to everyone.
		
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How many times do you need to be told! It's not unfair!

It's not unfair!

Btw. It's not unfair!

Anchoring will be be banned in 2016 and he'll have to find another method of putting, but....

It's not unfair!

Spirit of the Game is playing it according to The Rules.

So it's not unfair!

Show me in The rules where 'but golf requires the player to be able to control the club without any aid' or admit....
It's not unfair!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Watching the golf last night I couldnt help but think that Adam Scott did have an unfair advantage with he's long putter, ok he uses it to great effect but with it being anchored to him the pendulum stroke is so smooth.Scott is an awesome ball striker but I think takes something away from he's game using the long putter, all I can see is he's game falling apart without it......
		
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He doesn't have an unfair advantage when his method of putting is both within the rules and available to everyone.

The anchoring ban is a knee jerk reaction to a method of putting that has been around for decades and decades because a couple players won a major doing it 

Belly putters and broom handle putter enabled a lot of golfers to continue to play the game.

The ban could certainly end up meaning some golfers stop playing


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## triple_bogey (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxholer said:



*Spirit of the Game is playing it according to The Rules*.
		
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Something some forum members fail to neglect/understand when it comes to a certain fellow pro... But thats another story for another thread. :thup:

Anyway, will Stevie become world No.1 if he goes on to win?


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## shivas irons (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			How many times do you need to be told! It's not unfair!

It's not unfair!

Btw. It's not unfair!

Anchoring will be be banned in 2016 and he'll have to find another method of putting, but....

It's not unfair!

Spirit of the Game is playing it according to The Rules.

So it's not unfair!

Show me in The rules where 'but golf requires the player to be able to control the club without any aid' or admit....
It's not unfair!
		
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Foxholer you constantly come on this site (and proberly others) Looking for an argument, your not going to get it from me so I'm not going to respond to you........I dare say Adam Scott will win Arnies tournament and be world number one going into The Masters and I wouldnt be suprised if he went on to win The Masters but as we know all sides of your game have to come together to play well and will Scott perform without the long stick when its banned, well he didnt before did he.......The putters deemed illegal because of the advantage it provides, hence the USGA and The R&A banning it and so they should.....


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			Foxholer you constantly come on this site (and proberly others) Looking for an argument, your not going to get it from me so I'm not going to respond to you........I dare say Adam Scott will win Arnies tournament and be world number one going into The Masters and I wouldnt be suprised if he went on to win The Masters but as we know all sides of your game have to come together to play well and will Scott perform without the long stick when its banned, well he didnt before did he.......The putters deemed illegal because of the advantage it provides, hence the USGA and The R&A banning it and so they should.....
		
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The putter hasn't been deemed illegal 

Scott can continue to use the same putter for the next decade and longer.


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## Foxholer (Mar 23, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			....The putters deemed illegal
		
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It's not illegal!

Nor will it be in 2016! 

Anchoring will be and, I believe, Scott's technique involves anchoring. So he'll have to find another way to get it in the hole.

But Sam Torrance believes his action is legit, so will continue with the Long Putter.

It's quite possible that Scott will adapt his technique to avoid anchoring. If he does, that will be fine too.

It's not an argument I'm after. Just trying to get the message across that use of the Long or Belly Putter is neither (deemed) illegal, nor unfair! You just don't seem to be able to grasp that notion - from any of the several posters that have stated it!

And fwiw. I'm pleased they have made anchoring illegal - from 2016. I will be happy to see Long or Mid sized putters used after then too.



Liverpoolphil said:



			....
The anchoring ban is a knee jerk reaction to a method of putting that has been around for decades and decades because a couple players won a major doing it 

The ban could certainly end up meaning some golfers stop playing
		
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I don't believe it's 'knee-jerk'. That claim would have been legit if it was made 'decades and decades' ago. While the use by a couple of Major winners, including Scott of course, probably accelerated it.

I'm pretty sure the authorities had it under consideration for some time, as there were certainly a growing number of exponents of it who had never really seen a 'real' Putter!

And the 2-3 year deferral gives those players time to find another method - in the same way that they went to the 'anchored' method.

I don't believe any will stop purely because anchoring is banned.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 23, 2014)

shivas irons said:



			I think a lot of those guys want to play their golf in the spirit of the game, nuff said 

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But it's hardly unfair. It would be unfair if he was the only one allowed to anchor his putter.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 23, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			It's not illegal!

Nor will it be in 2016! 

Anchoring will be and, I believe, Scott's technique involves anchoring. So he'll have to find another way to get it in the hole.

But Sam Torrance believes his action is legit, so will continue with the Long Putter.

It's quite possible that Scott will adapt his technique to avoid anchoring. If he does, that will be fine too.

It's not an argument I'm after. Just trying to get the message across that use of the Long or Belly Putter is neither (deemed) illegal, nor unfair! You just don't seem to be able to grasp that notion - from any of the several posters that have stated it!

And fwiw. I'm pleased they have made anchoring illegal - from 2016. I will be happy to see Long or Mid sized putters used after then too.
		
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I've just explained all of this to my 6yr old. He got it straight away


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## freddielong (Mar 23, 2014)

triple_bogey said:



			Something some forum members fail to neglect/understand when it comes to a certain fellow pro... But thats another story for another thread. :thup:

Anyway, will Stevie become world No.1 if he goes on to win?
		
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What the Mps did was within the rules was it wrong


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

Scott now 2 shots behind 

Not sinking putts at the moment


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Scott now 2 shots behind 

Not sinking putts at the moment 

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And at least a couple have been dodgy reads based on his reaction


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			And at least a couple have been dodgy reads based on his reaction 

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Surely not ?

And another miss putt


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## USER1999 (Mar 23, 2014)

Stevie never did have the bottle.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Surely not ?

And another miss putt 

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What the hell was that 3 putt on 16?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			What the hell was that 3 putt on 16? 

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Poor second putt - very poor

looks like my putting at the moment


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## Siren (Mar 23, 2014)

Thats a proper bottle job.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

Well played Matt Avery


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## Siren (Mar 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well played Matt Avery
		
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Matt Every Phil!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

Siren said:



			Matt Every Phil!
		
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Well played him as well


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## didsbury_duffer (Mar 23, 2014)

Siren said:



			Thats a proper bottle job.
		
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I suggest he gets himself a proper putter, rather that overlong branding iron.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

didsbury_duffer said:



			I suggest he gets himself a proper putter, rather that overlong branding iron.
		
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The overlong branding iron seems to have brought him a great deal of success over the years


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## didsbury_duffer (Mar 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The overlong branding iron seems to have brought him a great deal of success over the years
		
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Should be banned.....oh, wait a minute.


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## richart (Mar 23, 2014)

Does Scott's putting display today mean that AimPoint is a load of old cobblers ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

didsbury_duffer said:



			Should be banned.....oh, wait a minute.

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Its not banned and wont be banned


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

richart said:



			Does Scott's putting display today mean that AimPoint is a load of old cobblers ?

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Uh Oh Rich !! Thats the cat out of the bag now !!

Off to get a super size bag of popcorn


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## richart (Mar 23, 2014)

3565 said:



			Are you watching sceptics, Adam Scott using Aimpoint Express, is 7 ahead and #makingeverything.
		
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## didsbury_duffer (Mar 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Its not banned and wont be banned 

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Well it should be. Ugly chunk of metal that has no place in the aesthetic echelons of our cherished game.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

didsbury_duffer said:



			Well it should be. Ugly chunk of metal that has no place in the aesthetic echelons of our cherished game.
		
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Well if you are banning clubs for being ugly then the list would be more than Scotts putter.


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## didsbury_duffer (Mar 23, 2014)

Agreed.:clap:


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

Anything else you would like banned then ?:fore:


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## didsbury_duffer (Mar 23, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Anything else you would like banned then ?:fore:
		
Click to expand...

Apart from white-headed clubs, chippers, trolley umbrellas, under armour golfwear and football logo'd accessories........not much else really.


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## G1BB0 (Mar 23, 2014)

that would be me goosed then


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

didsbury_duffer said:



			Apart from white-headed clubs, chippers, trolley umbrellas, under armour golfwear and football logo'd accessories........not much else really.
		
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And the reason why is ?


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## didsbury_duffer (Mar 23, 2014)

White-headed clubs - look completely out of place, a passing fad.
Chippers - specifically made for those that should learn to use wedges.
Trolley umbrellas - do I really need to spell it out?
Under armour gubbins - man up, or wear another/thicker sweater.
Footy accessories - lower the tone, old bean.


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## 3565 (Mar 23, 2014)

richart said:



			Does Scott's putting display today mean that AimPoint is a load of old cobblers ?

Click to expand...

Didnt see it tonight, so I can't comment. But from the previous rounds, he looked as though he was using the Express read for the long putts and your normal reads for the shorter ones. Aimpoint tells you the amount of break to play, it doesn't account for all the other issues that go with putting!!!!!  So why don't you conclude from that. 
And talking bout his putting display I take it he lost his way tonight with his putting, so do we conclude that his broom handle anchoring system is still giving him an advantage over NORMAL putters........ If that's the case (that a lot on here have been saying) how come he didn't win tonight?


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## 3565 (Mar 23, 2014)

didsbury_duffer said:



*White-headed clubs - look completely out of place, a passing fad.*
Chippers - specifically made for those that should learn to use wedges.
Trolley umbrellas - do I really need to spell it out?
Under armour gubbins - man up, or wear another/thicker sweater.
Footy accessories - lower the tone, old bean.
		
Click to expand...

More likely those who bought them got duped and suckered into the TM marketing codswallop........


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

3565 said:



			Didnt see it tonight, so I can't comment. But from the previous rounds, he looked as though he was using the Express read for the long putts and your normal reads for the shorter ones. Aimpoint tells you the amount of break to play, it doesn't account for all the other issues that go with putting!!!!!  So why don't you conclude from that. 
And talking bout his putting display I take it he lost his way tonight with his putting, so do we conclude that his broom handle anchoring system is still giving him an advantage over NORMAL putters........ If that's the case (that a lot on here have been saying) how come he didn't win tonight?
		
Click to expand...

So basically when he was putting well you came on and started a thread about how he was putting well and using aimpoint to highlight how good it is 

Now when he has a shocker on the greens its all about the putter and technique etc ! 

putt well = aimpoint good

putt poorly = technique etc poor ( no mention of aimpoint)


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 23, 2014)

3565 said:



			More likely those who bought them got duped and suckered into the TM marketing codswallop........
		
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Or when they used them they found them very good and worked well for them 

I suppose it could be the same as the people who got suckered into paying for the aimpoint marketing cadswallop


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or when they used them they found them very good and worked well for them 

I suppose it could be the same as the people who got suckered into paying for the aimpoint marketing cadswallop 

Click to expand...

:rofl:It didn't take long


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Is there a fishing rod smiley........... Damn


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or when they used them they found them very good and worked well for them 

I suppose it could be the same as the people who got suckered into paying for the aimpoint marketing cadswallop 

Click to expand...

Oh......just seen your one of the duped.......


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 24, 2014)

3565 said:



			Oh......just seen your one of the duped.......
		
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Yes - you have the reason for me buying my driver exactly spot on :thup:

So the subject youre avoiding - Scott uses aimpoint - Scott had a mare on the greens today with his reading and putting - so can we conclude that it is a failure on aimpoints part when your initial post in the thread was stating how well Scott was putting using the aimpoint method


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes - you have the reason for me buying my driver exactly spot on :thup:

So the subject youre avoiding - Scott uses aimpoint - Scott had a mare on the greens today with his reading and putting - so can we conclude that it is a failure on aimpoints part when your initial post in the thread was stating how well Scott was putting using the aimpoint method
		
Click to expand...

Im glad I know you soooo well then!

if you read my post not long ago, I said he seemed to be using Aimpoint on the looooonger putts and normal method on shorter ones. As I didn't see tonight's telecast, I can't comment on what he did, but I did see on the 2nd day on the 14th using it and holed a 30-35ft putt that by the yanks stats said only 8% chance of holing it. Aimpoint can't account for dodgy strokes, nerves or any other nuance in putting........ It's a system to show how much break to play. What's so hard to understand that? No different as to getting the yardage from the fairway to the flag by stroke saver but cos the ball didn't go near the flag is it the stroke savers fault?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 24, 2014)

3565 said:



			Im glad I know you soooo well then!

if you read my post not long ago, I said he seemed to be using Aimpoint on the looooonger putts and normal method on shorter ones. As I didn't see tonight's telecast, I can't comment on what he did, but I did see on the 2nd day on the 14th using it and holed a 30-35ft putt that by the yanks stats said only 8% chance of holing it. Aimpoint can't account for dodgy strokes, nerves or any other nuance in putting........ It's a system to show how much break to play. What's so hard to understand that? No different as to getting the yardage from the fairway to the flag by stroke saver but cos the ball didn't go near the flag is it the stroke savers fault?
		
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:rofl:

putt well = aimpoint good

putt poorly = dodgy stroke


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## Foxholer (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So basically when he was putting well you came on and started a thread about how he was putting well and using aimpoint to highlight how good it is 

Now when he has a shocker on the greens its all about the putter and technique etc ! 

putt well = aimpoint good

*putt poorly = technique etc poor ( no mention of aimpoint)*

Click to expand...

Well, it's hard to get away from the fact that that's pretty much spot on!

No green reading skill is going to help a dodgy stroke - that 2nd putt on 16 was a shocker!

But with a solid stroke of the required strength, an accurate read absolutely works. And that doesn't matter whether it's Aimpoint or any other technique! The putt for Par on 15 was a perfect example! First Putt (for Eagle) on 16 was just wrong speed - it broke perfectly to fall in the hole 18 inches or so past the hole!

The positive thing for Aimpoint is... that such a high profile player is using it. The bad news is ... he's a (relatively) rubbish Putter (who has occasional streaks)!

I'm not sure whether it was just me, but several putts - including Bradley's on the last - seemed to start to break and then stay above the hole. I do know a couple of courses where Aimpoint would be of limited value. Walton Heath and Grimms Dyke both have quite a few greens that have subtle breaks all over nearly, but definitely not, even greens. The ball could seem to be rolling perfectly to the hole and simply veer off! I'm not sure whether that's good or bad, but it's certainly 'interesting'. Having seen one of Grimms Dyke's greens being reconstructed (after an escaped horse gallumphed all over it, ripping it to shreds), it was obvious that these undulations were being deliberately created! Tom Watson stated he recognised the trait at WH in 2010 from when he played there in 1981 (Ryder Cup). Just hit the ball along the chosen line and don't get upset if it dived away at the end!


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			:rofl:

putt well = aimpoint good

putt poorly = dodgy stroke
		
Click to expand...

Do you work hard to be pedantic or was born like it.


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## Foxholer (Mar 24, 2014)

3565 said:



			Do you work hard to be pedantic or was born like it.
		
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What?

'Pedantic' would be pointing out that there was nothing pedantic about what Phil posted!


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			What?

'Pedantic' would be pointing out that there was nothing pedantic about what Phil posted! 

Click to expand...

Pedantic as in picking out little minute trivial details in what I'm saying.


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## Imurg (Mar 24, 2014)

Warning!!

Don't get pedantic with Foxy, winner of Pedant of the Year since 1970.....:rofl:


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## chrisd (Mar 24, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Warning!!

Don't get pedantic with Foxy, winner of Pedant of the Year since 1970.....:rofl:
		
Click to expand...

I don't want to be pedantic but I think he missed out in 1987 by not being nominated!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 24, 2014)

3565 said:



			Are you watching sceptics, Adam Scott using Aimpoint Express, is 7 ahead and #makingeverything.
		
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I've just seen the final leaderboard


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 24, 2014)

Forget aimpoint for a second. I'm more interested in how golf's new messiah and future world number 1 can capitulate like that when supposedly at the top of his game. I heard Nick Docherty compare him to Tiger in 2000-2001 during the programme last night - not even close on that showing. Granted, Scott closed out the Masters but he's throws too many tournaments away for me. Great swing, great ball striker, seems like a decent guy but you have to question his bottle don't you?


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## Robobum (Mar 24, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Forget aimpoint for a second. I'm more interested in how golf's new messiah and future world number 1 can capitulate like that when supposedly at the top of his game. I heard Nick Docherty compare him to Tiger in 2000-2001 during the programme last night - not even close on that showing. Granted, Scott closed out the Masters but he's throws too many tournaments away for me. Great swing, great ball striker, seems like a decent guy but you have to question his bottle don't you?
		
Click to expand...

Or just his sharpness? He hasn't played for ages.


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## pokerjoke (Mar 24, 2014)

I suppose it just goes to show pressure gets to everyone.
It seemed to me this week over the first 3 rounds Scott did not miss much
and his long putting was spot on.
However last night he looked dodgy at least.
Aimpoint seems ok but if your tightening up due to the pressure,and your stroke is wavering
imo it wont help,in fact Adam Scott looked a poor putter in the last round.
I think he has a great all round game and will definitely be contesting majors,but
the question for me is can he handle the pressure.
He has in the past,perhaps last night was a rare occasion it did not.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 24, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Or just his sharpness? He hasn't played for ages.
		
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That's a valid point.


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## Foxholer (Mar 24, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Or just his sharpness? He hasn't played for ages.
		
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Only 2 of the 3 previous weeks!


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## Robobum (Mar 24, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Only 2 of the 3 previous weeks!

Click to expand...

Ok, that's 1 too many - IGNORE


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## Robobum (Mar 24, 2014)

http://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/adam-scott-rues-cold-putter-as-every-wins

He either doesn't understand/ apply Aimpoint properly or it is, like any other green read, a guess.

I doubt that a major winner would use something that he didn't understand and it is unlikely that he'd apply it 1/2 arsed........


"...........I read the greens a little poorly, I must say. You need confidence in that, too, and after missing a couple over the last couple of days doubts creep into your reads. You need to be certain........"

At least that's saved me the Â£90 the course I was going to try :thup:


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## pokerjoke (Mar 24, 2014)

Funny I can read putts fairly well,i just cant execute them well enough.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 24, 2014)

Robobum said:



http://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/adam-scott-rues-cold-putter-as-every-wins

He either doesn't understand/ apply Aimpoint properly or it is, like any other green read, a guess.

I doubt that a major winner would use something that he didn't understand and it is unlikely that he'd apply it 1/2 arsed........


"...........I read the greens a little poorly, I must say. You need confidence in that, too, and after missing a couple over the last couple of days doubts creep into your reads. You need to be certain........"

At least that's saved me the Â£90 the course I was going to try :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, probably not what the folks at Aimpoint wanted to be hearing. I too am out


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 24, 2014)

Robobum said:



http://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/adam-scott-rues-cold-putter-as-every-wins

He either doesn't understand/ apply Aimpoint properly or it is, like any other green read, a guess.

I doubt that a major winner would use something that he didn't understand and it is unlikely that he'd apply it 1/2 arsed........


"...........I read the greens a little poorly, I must say. You need confidence in that, too, and after missing a couple over the last couple of days doubts creep into your reads. You need to be certain........"

At least that's saved me the Â£90 the course I was going to try :thup:
		
Click to expand...


Oops - that's a bit of a kick in the teeth for aimpoint !


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oops - that's a bit of a kick in the teeth for aimpoint !
		
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Again through a bit of logic whilst watching some of Palmers tournament, not all, Scott seemed to be using the express read (which yet again, is not as accurate as the chart, but gives a good visual for the amount of break) on his longer putts, and reverting back to the normal method of green reading for the shorter putts. Surely you saw that. Did he say that the reads by Aimpoint were the sole reason for his poor putting? Or was he generalising! Yes, he did have a long putt on day 3 which he Aimpointed and missed on low side by 5ft, it can still happen but you have to be honest in your assessment of the putt. 

The eagle putt he had on 16 was aimpointed after doing a normal read to verify his initial read. He hit a good putt it started to break and then straightened up. His next par putt was a poor effort in stroke and lacking speed, which is down to mechanics. At the end of the day you can get your set squares, protractors, string lines, putter alignment aids, stimp meters, levels, alignment sticks the whole nine yards to help and aid you, but if you put a poor stroke on it, open close the face by a degree or 2, or accelerate too much or decel, none of the gadgets or gizmos will help you to hole the putt will it? 

But like the saying says, You can lead a horse to water.......


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 24, 2014)

3565 said:



			Again through a bit of logic whilst watching some of Palmers tournament, not all, Scott seemed to be using the express read (which yet again, is not as accurate as the chart, but gives a good visual for the amount of break) on his longer putts, and reverting back to the normal method of green reading for the shorter putts. Surely you saw that. Did he say that the reads by Aimpoint were the sole reason for his poor putting? Or was he generalising! Yes, he did have a long putt on day 3 which he Aimpointed and missed on low side by 5ft, it can still happen but you have to be honest in your assessment of the putt. 

The eagle putt he had on 16 was aimpointed after doing a normal read to verify his initial read. He hit a good putt it started to break and then straightened up. His next par putt was a poor effort in stroke and lacking speed, which is down to mechanics. At the end of the day you can get your set squares, protractors, string lines, putter alignment aids, stimp meters, levels, alignment sticks the whole nine yards to help and aid you, but if you put a poor stroke on it, open close the face by a degree or 2, or accelerate too much or decel, none of the gadgets or gizmos will help you to hole the putt will it? 

But like the saying says, You can lead a horse to water.......
		
Click to expand...

The man doth protest too much


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2014)

Well, I still think Aimpoint is a valid tool. BUT it still needs a good stroke at the end of it. Whether you use that method a traditional method or get a reading from Russell Grant, unless you hit it at the right speed on the line you picked it won't go in. I thought he had a shocking day on the greens and to be honest looked out of sorts all the way round. Didn't think Stevie boy did much for his man either.


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## richart (Mar 24, 2014)

richart said:



			Does Scott's putting display today mean that AimPoint is a load of old cobblers ?

Click to expand...




3565 said:



			Didnt see it tonight, so I can't comment. But from the previous rounds, he looked as though he was using the Express read for the long putts and your normal reads for the shorter ones. Aimpoint tells you the amount of break to play, it doesn't account for all the other issues that go with putting!!!!!  So why don't you conclude from that. 
And talking bout his putting display I take it he lost his way tonight with his putting, so do we conclude that his broom handle anchoring system is still giving him an advantage over NORMAL putters........ If that's the case (that a lot on here have been saying) how come he didn't win tonight?
		
Click to expand...




3565 said:



			Is there a fishing rod smiley........... Damn
		
Click to expand...

  Yes I think you were hooked very nicely.:thup: Wasn't even a subtle cast.:whoo:


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The man doth protest too much 

Click to expand...

Not really, as much as I do Aimpoint and think its a revolutionary aid, I'm trying to be objective here. I suppose Aimpoint is not to everyone's liking, as is your R1 driver to me. But I've at least tried the R1 and paid for a fitting and said here's your money, but no thanks it's not for me. Can the same be asked of you and Aimpoint? Or are you saving your pennies to 'Loft Up'?


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

richart said:



			Yes I think you were hooked very nicely.:thup: Wasn't even a subtle cast.:whoo:
		
Click to expand...

Not really just answering to your ignorance :rofl:


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## User20205 (Mar 24, 2014)

3565 said:



			Not really just answering to your ignorance :rofl:
		
Click to expand...

The question that springs to mind is, why is there a need for an express version?

or, is the express no-point  an admission that the full version adds to slow play??

I'm vexed !!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 24, 2014)

I'm not going to pay for something I think is nonsense. I'm quite happy with my reading of greens. 

I only bought the R1 because it improved my driving from my previous driver - have already tried the SLDR but it didn't give me much improvement 

I spend money on things that I believe are going to help.

It's clear that you won't hear a bad word about aim point 

You started the thread with a statement about Scott putting well using aimpoint

4 days later after he has a shocker on greens - even the player stating he had a mare reading the greens - you try and ensure that it can't be any failing on the part of aimpoint ! It's extremely transparent tbh 

If it such a revolutionary aid then I'm sure it won't be long until everyone is using it ( but they aren't )


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## Foxholer (Mar 24, 2014)

3565 said:





Liverpoolphil said:



			The man doth protest too much 

Click to expand...

Not really, as much as I do Aimpoint and think its a revolutionary aid, I'm trying to be objective here. I suppose Aimpoint is not to everyone's liking, as is your R1 driver to me. But I've at least tried the R1 and paid for a fitting and said here's your money, but no thanks it's not for me. Can the same be asked of you and Aimpoint? Or are you saving your pennies to 'Loft Up'?
		
Click to expand...

The man doth obfuscate even more!

If you are going to post (or start a thread even) saying...



3565 said:



			Are you watching sceptics, Adam Scott using Aimpoint Express, is 7 ahead and #makingeverything.
		
Click to expand...

Then you should really accept to be taken to task - by the sceptics you are haranguing - when the magic disappears and he can neither get the reads nor the technique right! 

I happen to think Aimpoint has value - and have seen poor putters turn into much better (even rather good) ones. But magic it is not! And expensive it is! But that applies to lots of things in Golf!


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

therod said:



			The question that springs to mind is, why is there a need for an express version?

or, is the express no-point  an admission that the full version adds to slow play??

I'm vexed !!

Click to expand...

I suppose it's like doing the normal read and then the player decides to plumb bob his put to see if his read is going to break that way? It doesn't tell him how much by but it gives an indication of the slope, then you guess how much left or right you aim. 
Once you learn Aimpoint it's no slower then a player doing a normal read. But your original question is a good one and I don't have clue tbh.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 24, 2014)

therod said:



			an admission that the full version adds to slow play??

I'm vexed !!

Click to expand...

Easy answer. I used full version at KoK on Thursday. Ask my partners if they think I unduly held play up on the greens?


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## richart (Mar 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Easy answer. I used full version at KoK on Thursday. Ask my partners if they think I unduly held play up on the greens?
		
Click to expand...

 You couldn't wait to get on them.:rofl:


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## User20205 (Mar 24, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Easy answer. I used full version at KoK on Thursday. Ask my partners if they think I unduly held play up on the greens?
		
Click to expand...




richart said:



			You couldn't wait to get on them.:rofl:
		
Click to expand...


:rofl: 

There is a grapevine & the grapevine says you were slooooooow. I'm not sure it's aimpoint though, it may be glove on, glove off, pre shot etc etc.


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## G1BB0 (Mar 24, 2014)

Homer 'all day' Simpson 

actually if I remember rightly now I think back, Homer was using aimpoint at woburn (I wondered why he was looking at a little book on the greens). Definitely not slow tbh


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## richart (Mar 24, 2014)

Don't Pro's get given a book with all the slopes on the greens, or have I just dreamt that ?


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## Foxholer (Mar 24, 2014)

richart said:



			Don't Pro's get given a book with all the slopes on the greens, or have I just dreamt that ?
		
Click to expand...

Not sure about US ones, but the ones European players/caddies *buy* don't give sufficient detail for Aimpoint calcs.

Given that Aimpoint have already mapped the greens - for Golf Channel Green/Red Lines - they have the data. But presenting it would be the problem. Probably best done day by day as pins change - in a sort of dart-board/star layout.


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## 3565 (Mar 24, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



*I'm not going to pay for something I think is nonsense. I'm quite happy with my reading of greens. 
*
I only bought the R1 because it improved my driving from my previous driver - have already tried the SLDR but it didn't give me much improvement 

I spend money on things that I believe are going to help.

It's clear that you won't hear a bad word about aim point 

You started the thread with a statement about Scott putting well using aimpoint

4 days later after he has a shocker on greens - even the player stating he had a mare reading the greens - you try and ensure that it can't be any failing on the part of aimpoint ! It's extremely transparent tbh 

If it such a revolutionary aid then I'm sure it won't be long until everyone is using it ( but they aren't )
		
Click to expand...

If your happy with your reads then absolutely fantastic...... But to say Aimpoint is nonsense when you yourself have not tried it out and don't really know how it works other then what's been said on this forum is bordering on naive and stupid. 

You bought an R1 that's improved your driving, great I'm glad it has as I can see by your hc your a good player...... Tell me, have you since buying it, had an Adam Scott melt down day with it? Was it the R1's fault, TM's fault, your coaches fault or yours? 

I too too spend money on things that I believe will help, like you with your R1, Aimpoint has, I'm holing more birdie putts of 12ft and longer then before. After all, half the game is played on the green compared to the 14 fairways you hit?? 

I dont mind if you did have a bad word against Aimpoint, like I said earlier it's not to everyone's liking, but your judgement would hold some ground if you have tried it, which clearly stated by you, think is nonsense! How can you form an opinion if you've not at least tried it. 

In 1999 I bought a Bushnell range finder, guess what? There very common today and a lot of players are using them!!! 3565 trendsetter :ears:

As for the rest of your post, about transparency, read back at what I've said about Aimpoint and what Homer has said about it, I'm just glad your R1 has gotten you 100% FIR's. 

And the OP, can you not detect sarcasm!!!! 

Hope thats obfuscate enough for you Foxholer! :blah::blah:


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## Foxholer (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			...
And the OP, can you not detect sarcasm!!!!
		
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A 'Sarcasm' smiley would help!



3565 said:



			...
Hope thats obfuscate enough for you Foxholer! :blah::blah:
		
Click to expand...

Perfect de-obfuscation! :thup: (where's that Sarcasm smiley!).

Great word (obfuscate) though isn't it! :whoo:


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			A 'Sarcasm' smiley would help!



Perfect de-obfuscation! :thup: (where's that Sarcasm smiley!).

Great word (obfuscate) though isn't it! :whoo:
		
Click to expand...

your too intelligent for me Foxy, I had to Google both words, I'm a simple man that does simple things like doing a penguin shuffle on a putting green........... (Which and where is the sarcasm smiley!!!)


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## User20205 (Mar 25, 2014)

I have another question. Do you need to know the stimp of the greens?? Most places I play don't publish that info on a daily basis.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			If your happy with your reads then absolutely fantastic...... But to say Aimpoint is nonsense when you yourself have not tried it out and don't really know how it works other then what's been said on this forum is bordering on naive and stupid. 

You bought an R1 that's improved your driving, great I'm glad it has as I can see by your hc your a good player...... Tell me, have you since buying it, had an Adam Scott melt down day with it? Was it the R1's fault, TM's fault, your coaches fault or yours? 

I too too spend money on things that I believe will help, like you with your R1, Aimpoint has, I'm holing more birdie putts of 12ft and longer then before. After all, half the game is played on the green compared to the 14 fairways you hit?? 

I dont mind if you did have a bad word against Aimpoint, like I said earlier it's not to everyone's liking, but your judgement would hold some ground if you have tried it, which clearly stated by you, think is nonsense! How can you form an opinion if you've not at least tried it. 

In 1999 I bought a Bushnell range finder, guess what? There very common today and a lot of players are using them!!! 3565 trendsetter :ears:

As for the rest of your post, about transparency, read back at what I've said about Aimpoint and what Homer has said about it, I'm just glad your R1 has gotten you 100% FIR's. 

And the OP, can you not detect sarcasm!!!! 

Hope thats obfuscate enough for you Foxholer! :blah::blah:
		
Click to expand...

You should write a blog on your exploits with Aimpoint so we can keep a track of your success with it :thup:


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## Mail Man (Mar 25, 2014)

heard a few folk at our club talking about aimpoint but don't know a lot about it, seems Adam forgot all about it over the weekend also.


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

therod said:



			I have another question. Do you need to know the stimp of the greens?? Most places I play don't publish that info on a daily basis.
		
Click to expand...

Yes stimp is required to use Aimpoint. A simple 5ft putt can attain the speed if it's not readily available.


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You should write a blog on your exploits with Aimpoint so we can keep a track of your success with it :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Now there's a good idea.......

so yesterday I decided to have a few holes in the lovely sun and try out a new Dave Hicks The Vibe putter I bought off EBay, and had a peculiar round to say the lea................. Nah i really don't think you want to hear my inane drivel on how I canned a 12, 15, and 20ft putts for birdies using express read....... Oops! You just have..........


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			Now there's a good idea.......

so yesterday I decided to have a few holes in the lovely sun and try out a new Dave Hicks The Vibe putter I bought off EBay, and had a peculiar round to say the lea................. Nah i really don't think you want to hear my inane drivel on how I canned a 12, 15, and 20ft putts for birdies using express read....... Oops! You just have.......... 

Click to expand...

No more interested than you would be to hear how I canned 6 birdies in my last 3 rounds, all over 12 feet and at least one over 20, using nothing but my own judgement. Like I said before, if aimpoint helps you then great, but it is no better than any other method of reading greens.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			Yes stimp is required to use Aimpoint. A simple 5ft putt can attain the speed if it's not readily available.
		
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How can a simple 5 foot putt attain the stimp rating of the greens? Surely that is just adding another element of guesswork into it?


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 25, 2014)

As a thought, and knowing a rival magazine (Todays Golfer) did an article on Aimpoint (so clearly a perceived interest to their readers), is there any chance GM Towers could organise a test or demonstration for a few forum members just to see if it will dispel a few myths, whether its actually bunkum, or if it could potentially help read putts better.


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## Foxholer (Mar 25, 2014)

Mail Man said:



			heard a few folk at our club talking about aimpoint but don't know a lot about it, *seems Adam forgot all about it over the weekend also.*

Click to expand...

Welcome aboard!

I like that comment!:rofl:

@Hawkeye. You are in a better position than most of us - being able to observe Homer's putting 'unbiasedly'. He believes his use of Aimpoint has improved it. Are you saying it hasn't?


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 25, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Welcome aboard!

I like that comment!:rofl:

@Hawkeye. You are in a better position than most of us - being able to observe Homer's putting 'unbiasedly'. He believes his use of Aimpoint has improved it. Are you saying it hasn't?
		
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Honestly Foxy I don't know, I don't really pay that much attention to what anyone else is doing on the greens. He has good putting rounds and bad putting rounds just like the rest of us and he chucks in the odd 3-putt just like the rest of us. Sometimes he'll hole 20 footers, sometimes he'll miss 3 footers - just like the rest of us. I have never considered Homer to be a bad putter and I can't say I have noticed a dramatic improvement but as I say, I don't pay that much attention and really only Homer's own stats can tell us whether he has improved.

His chipping on the other hand has improved immensely, but I don't think he uses aimpoint for that  (maybe he does?)


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			No more interested than you would be to hear how I canned 6 birdies in my last 3 rounds, all over 12 feet and at least one over 20, using nothing but my own judgement. Like I said before, if aimpoint helps you then great, but it is no better than any other method of reading greens.
		
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I could say difference being I had 3 birdies of 12ft and above in 12 holes plus a couple of tap ins too, whereas you had 6 birdies in 3 rounds? Maths was never my strong subject but work it out yourself? I know which I would prefer to have!! 

Also I find it strange that you regularly play with someone who advocates Aimpoint and have an opportunity to see first hand how it works, unlike some who just poo poo the thought of it. How bout you take time to study it from Homer and then make an informed judgement?


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## Foxholer (Mar 25, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Honestly Foxy I don't know, I don't really pay that much attention to what anyone else is doing on the greens. He has good putting rounds and bad putting rounds just like the rest of us and he chucks in the odd 3-putt just like the rest of us. Sometimes he'll hole 20 footers, sometimes he'll miss 3 footers - just like the rest of us. I have never considered Homer to be a bad putter and I can't say I have noticed a dramatic improvement but as I say, I don't pay that much attention and really only Homer's own stats can tell us whether he has improved.
		
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That's a bit 'mebbee'-ish then. I noticed a distinct improvement in 2 players who had previously been 'poor' and putting seemed to be a 'strength' of a mid-high capper exponent I played with once (only). A couple of low guys I know are devotees and 'scare the hole' most times, but that was pretty much always the case!

I have little doubt that the numbers work. Just not convinced of the (my) ability to interpret the greens to apply them any better than my eye and brain already does. And, like learning to ride a horse or drive a car, the early bits are the hardest!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			I could say difference being I had 3 birdies of 12ft and above in 12 holes plus a couple of tap ins too, whereas you had 6 birdies in 3 rounds? Maths was never my strong subject but work it out yourself? I know which I would prefer to have!! 

Also I find it strange that you regularly play with someone who advocates Aimpoint and have an opportunity to see first hand how it works, unlike some who just poo poo the thought of it. How bout you take time to study it from Homer and then make an informed judgement?
		
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Why would he want to study it when he would prefer to concentrate on his own game.

Yesterday I sank 3 putts around 20ft and over as well as a few just under 15ft

All through have a good guess on the greens and more importantly getting the pace right


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## lobthewedge (Mar 25, 2014)

I have no idea what aimpoint is or how it works.  Can someone talk me through how you would use it on an average 20 footer?

(No links to videos please, am unable to watch them at work.)


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			I could say difference being I had 3 birdies of 12ft and above in 12 holes plus a couple of tap ins too, whereas you had 6 birdies in 3 rounds? Maths was never my strong subject but work it out yourself? I know which I would prefer to have!! 

Also I find it strange that you regularly play with someone who advocates Aimpoint and have an opportunity to see first hand how it works, unlike some who just poo poo the thought of it. How bout you take time to study it from Homer and then make an informed judgement?
		
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OK, if we're being pedantic, on March 14th, I had 3 birdies all over 12 feet using my own judgement. I don't always have 3 birdies a round any more than you do. I also make more than my fair share of putts for par and bogey from outside 10 feet. All unaided. I could go through them but that would be dull.

As for watching Homer and making an informed judgement, don't you think that in the 18 months or so he has been using it, if I thought it was so great and had noticed a huge improvement I would be using it myself? I don't study what Homer is doing because I don't see the need. I am already a decent putter, I can for the most part read greens and pretty much all of my putts have a chance of going in, some days they do, some days they don't and aimpoint isn't going to help me read greens any better than I do now.

As I have said a few times, if you can't read greens, aimpoint may and probably will help, but then I'm pretty sure if I spent time with someone who couldn't read greens, I could also help them to do it for themselves.


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## Foxholer (Mar 25, 2014)

lobthewedge said:



			I have no idea what aimpoint is or how it works.  Can someone talk me through how you would use it on an average 20 footer?

(No links to videos please, am unable to watch them at work.)
		
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My ultra simplified interpretation - for an even slope.

Determine the degree of slope(a %) - feet and eyes and other techniques are involved.
Look up a set of tables for the speed of green, length of putt and degree of slope to get amount left/right break. 

The initial course covers the fundamentals, including hitting the ball the length the numbers depend on - 6 inches further than the hole. Advanced course is about how to convert complications, such as multiple breaks etc, into the 'simplified' values.


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## Mail Man (Mar 25, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			My ultra simplified interpretation - for an even slope.

Determine the degree of slope(a %) - feet and eyes and other techniques are involved.
Look up a set of tables for the speed of green, length of putt and degree of slope to get amount left/right break. 

The initial course covers the fundamentals, including hitting the ball the length the numbers depend on - 6 inches further than the hole. Advanced course is about how to convert complications, such as multiple breaks etc, into the 'simplified' values.
		
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Wow seems complicated trying to work out all that in your head standing over a putt no wonder Adam Scott could not putt over the weekend, to many numbers running through his head. Mind blowing stuff I thinks it's just better to pick the line and hit the putt.


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## lobthewedge (Mar 25, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			My ultra simplified interpretation - for an even slope.

Determine the degree of slope(a %) - feet and eyes and other techniques are involved.
Look up a set of tables for the speed of green, length of putt and degree of slope to get amount left/right break. 

The initial course covers the fundamentals, including hitting the ball the length the numbers depend on - 6 inches further than the hole. Advanced course is about how to convert complications, such as multiple breaks etc, into the 'simplified' values.
		
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Bloody hell, just reading this nearly gave me a nosebleed and thats the 'ultra-simplified version'?

Golf doesnt half attract some jokers, tell me people arent actually paying for this?


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## Foxholer (Mar 25, 2014)

Mail Man said:



			Wow seems complicated trying to work out all that in your head standing over a putt no wonder Adam Scott could not putt over the weekend, to many numbers running through his head. Mind blowing stuff I thinks it's just better to pick the line and hit the putt.
		
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He was actually using the 'Express' way, which I'm not particularly familiar with.

It's a lot less 'complicated' than it appears when written down. 

To simplify it further... Work out the slope;know the distance and pace; look-up the amount of break. 

The complicated part is working out the slope, but that's what you pay the money to learn - and you can go back for a (free) refresher, something I haven't heard of in Golf before!


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			OK, if we're being pedantic, on March 14th, I had 3 birdies all over 12 feet using my own judgement. I don't always have 3 birdies a round any more than you do. I also make more than my fair share of putts for par and bogey from outside 10 feet. All unaided. I could go through them but that would be dull.

As for watching Homer and making an informed judgement, don't you think that in the 18 months or so he has been using it, if I thought it was so great and had noticed a huge improvement I would be using it myself? I don't study what Homer is doing because I don't see the need. I am already a decent putter, I can for the most part read greens and pretty much all of my putts have a chance of going in, some days they do, some days they don't and aimpoint isn't going to help me read greens any better than I do now.

As I have said a few times, if you can't read greens, aimpoint may and probably will help, but then I'm pretty sure if I spent time with someone who couldn't read greens, I could also help them to do it for themselves.
		
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You asked how do we judge speed of greens by a 5ft putt, so I said your in a Position to make a judgement by finding out through Homer, hell you don't have to pay the extortionate price they charge to even make an informed decision!!!. But you state your not interested in the Aimpoint system as it's no better then your way and you take no note of what Homer does, and as you state you are a fabulous putter anyway. Fine, I accept that and it's not for you as you've made a true informed decision on it! Did you do the same informed decision making when you wanted a Titleist 910 D2 driver? Or did you have a go or had a fitting for it? Guess who's being pedantic now........Me!


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why would he want to study it when he would prefer to concentrate on his own game.

Yesterday I sank 3 putts around 20ft and over as well as a few just under 15ft

All through have a good guess on the greens and *more importantly getting the pace right*

Click to expand...

Hello Liverpoolphil how are you today? at last we agree on something, yes pace is important to hole putts, by your read, Aimpoint read or as Homer said Russell Grants read....... If not, guess what........ We all miss.


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## cookelad (Mar 25, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			He was actually using the 'Express' way, which I'm not particularly familiar with.

It's a lot less 'complicated' than it appears when written down. 

To simplify it further... Work out the slope;know the distance and pace; look-up the amount of break. 

The complicated part is working out the slope, but that's what you pay the money to learn - and you can go back for a (free) refresher, something I haven't heard of in Golf before!
		
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I don't use "Aimpoint" but when I have a 20 footer what I do is to try to judge the slopes, the distance and the pace then I use my own brain to determine how hard on what line to putt the ball!

I really don't get what they're charging you for!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 25, 2014)

cookelad said:



			I don't use "Aimpoint" but when I have a 20 footer what I do is to try to judge the slopes, the distance and the pace then I use my own brain to determine how hard on what line to putt the ball!
		
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Put that on paper with some figures and you could make a fortune out of gullible golfers looking for the answer


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## Papas1982 (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			Now there's a good idea.......

so yesterday I decided to have a few holes in the lovely sun and try out a new Dave Hicks The Vibe putter I bought off EBay, and had a peculiar round to say the lea................. Nah i really don't think you want to hear my inane drivel on how I canned a 12, 15, and 20ft putts for birdies using express read....... Oops! You just have.......... 

Click to expand...

So that's three good putts out of 18. What happened with the other 15?


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			So that's three good putts out of 18. What happened with the other 15?
		
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I only played 12 holes, I had 2 more birdies that were tap ins, 3 bogies and and 4 pars........ Ok for you?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			I only played 12 holes, I had 2 more birdies that were tap ins, 3 bogies and and 4 pars........ Ok for you?
		
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Seems a decent round, but for you first point to be even relevant I presume you have details of how you've actually improved with the technique. I'm a 28 handicapper and yet with the right 'memory' I could relist scores of plus 4 on my course if I forgot all the times I'd played the holes badly. 

Smugly (subtly)  informing his you've made a few putts (whoopee). Doesn't mean that the technique is universally going to make everyone better. I think unfortunately Scott let you down. Friday you thought you could finally prove it was worth it to all the detractors and then the wheels fell off. 

Like all things in sport, if it works for you then that's great. But it doesn't mean it's best for everyone else.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			You asked how do we judge speed of greens by a 5ft putt, so I said your in a Position to make a judgement by finding out through Homer, hell you don't have to pay the extortionate price they charge to even make an informed decision!!!. But you state your not interested in the Aimpoint system as it's no better then your way and you take no note of what Homer does, and as you state you are a fabulous putter anyway. Fine, I accept that and it's not for you as you've made a true informed decision on it! Did you do the same informed decision making when you wanted a Titleist 910 D2 driver? Or did you have a go or had a fitting for it? Guess who's being pedantic now........Me!
		
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It was you who was being pedantic in the first place. Bottom line is, you started this when Scott was leading and you seem totally incapable of accepting the response you are getting from us "sceptics" when the man himself admits he couldn't get his reads rights.

You stick to aimpoint, I'll stick to what I do and we'll leave it at that.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 25, 2014)

I've said Aimpoint has helped me and I stand by that. Had Camberley at nine on the stimp Thursday (compared to an 8 at my place) and my pace and reads were good. I missed a couple of short ones but they were from two to three feet and I didn't Aimpoint those but made a rank bad stroke. Funnily enough I played with a mate at my club on Sunday and didn't bother and felt my putting was off by a long way. It does have merits and while the usual suspects will never accept that or be prepared to try it and see, in my own game it has helped the accuracy of the reads. Anything after that is down to my ability to putt well. The two aren't mutually exclusive and need each other to work


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## 3565 (Mar 25, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			It was you who was being pedantic in the first place. Bottom line is, you started this when Scott was leading and you seem totally incapable of accepting the response you are getting from us "sceptics" when the man himself admits he couldn't get his reads rights.

You stick to aimpoint, I'll stick to what I do and we'll leave it at that.
		
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Try re reading the posts again. I've explained what Scott was doing from what I saw, Aimpoint with the longer putts, normal method with the shorts ones. I Even stated on some of the longer Aimpoint reads, he missed, why he missed them are a number of factors that go into putting as you know. Is that Aimpoints fault, no, it is there to show you the break of a green that's all it does. YOU as a player then have to make the stroke, (line, speed, square impact) you can have a bad day with or without Aimpoint if one of the factors of putting is off! Is that so hard to understand? Now maybe I should of put (sarcastic) after my OP, but I didn't, if your offended I called you a sceptic then this post shows that you are. I think I've taken your criticism and countered it as well by giving you an example with your driver for instance. I don't think you are in a position to critise something that your not fully informed of! I don't know much bout your driver you use but I'd certainly not slag it off without trying it? But if that's your way...


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 25, 2014)

3565 said:



			Try re reading the posts again. I've explained what Scott was doing from what I saw, Aimpoint with the longer putts, normal method with the shorts ones. I Even stated on some of the longer Aimpoint reads, he missed, why he missed them are a number of factors that go into putting as you know. Is that Aimpoints fault, no, it is there to show you the break of a green that's all it does. YOU as a player then have to make the stroke, (line, speed, square impact) you can have a bad day with or without Aimpoint if one of the factors of putting is off! Is that so hard to understand? Now maybe I should of put (sarcastic) after my OP, but I didn't, if your offended I called you a sceptic then this post shows that you are. I think I've taken your criticism and countered it as well by giving you an example with your driver for instance. I don't think you are in a position to critise something that your not fully informed of! I don't know much bout your driver you use but I'd certainly not slag it off without trying it? But if that's your way...
		
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Where have I said aimpoint doesn't work? I clearly said if you can't read greens, it will help but I also said it is no better than any other method and I stick by that having seen it in use first hand. If you are competant at whatever method you use, you will make good reads, you aren't you won't. Aimpoint is the most scientifically accurate method out there, of that there is no doubt, but that doesn't make it better than any other because it's implementation relies on guesswork and feel. Horses for course and all that.

Why you're going on qbout my driver I have no idea


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## 3565 (Mar 26, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Where have I said aimpoint doesn't work? I clearly said if you can't read greens, it will help but I also said it is no better than any other method and I stick by that having seen it in use first hand. If you are competant at whatever method you use, you will make good reads, you aren't you won't. Aimpoint is the most scientifically accurate method out there, of that there is no doubt, but that doesn't make it better than any other because it's implementation relies on guesswork and feel. Horses for course and all that.

Why you're going on qbout my driver I have no idea 

Click to expand...

And where have I said that Aimpoint is the be all and end all? I've tried, not only on this thread but on a specific Aimpoint thread to enlighten in how it works and that it DOES NOT help or improve your putting nuances but merely shows the break. Simple really. You say it's a guess, there are factors that are designed to 'eliminate as much' not all, guess work as possible by feel and judgement which ALL players do when putting. 

You have to admit there have been a lot of sceptics to the validity of Aimpoint who know absolutely nothing about it but make their comments on the majority on here who disparage it..... I'd of respected you more with your views of an informed judgement, if you'd of said I've tried it (whether by paying for the course or Homer teaching you) but it's not for me. I'd not pass judgement on your driver by the antics of someone who used the same as and was all over the place!!!! I'd go try it. Just using it as a comparison. 

Now as for my OP, I made a comment on seeing him doing the read and holing a big putt and posted it. He DID NOT use Aimpoint on every read, it was a mixture of the old and new, but neither one nor other methods are solely to blame for his downfall like some have stated on here? I believe that his stroke on certain putts wasn't there, his speed was definatley off, the fact that if he wins he goes to No1 in the world may of played a huge part in it as is the fact that it's Arnies tournament may of, who knows?


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## Foxholer (Mar 26, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I've said Aimpoint has helped me and I stand by that. Had Camberley at nine on the stimp Thursday (compared to an 8 at my place) and my pace and reads were good. I missed a couple of short ones but they were from two to three feet and I didn't Aimpoint those but made a rank bad stroke. Funnily enough I played with a mate at my club on Sunday and didn't bother and felt my putting was off by a long way. It does have merits and *while the usual suspects will never accept that or be prepared to try it and see, in my own game it has helped the accuracy of the reads*. Anything after that is down to my ability to putt well. The two aren't mutually exclusive and need each other to work
		
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It appears that the other half of the team is one of those. Maybe you should test it out together? You do the reads; Hawkeye hits the putt.



HawkeyeMS said:



			Horses for course and all that.
		
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Horses and (Golf) courses don't mix! They damage greens!


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## garyinderry (Mar 26, 2014)

can you actually aimpoint a 2 foot putt?


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 26, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			It appears that the other half of the team is one of those. Maybe you should test it out together? You do the reads; Hawkeye hits the putt.



Horses and (Golf) courses don't mix! They damage greens!
		
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I've said many times on this and other threads that if aimpoint works for you, then it's great, but it's not for me as I know I couldn't be bothered with the little book and I don't feel that I need express as I read greens perfectly well. Of course I get it wrong sometimes but so does someone using aimpoint or any other method. I've never said aimpoint doesn't work.


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## Steve Bamford (Mar 26, 2014)

pokerjoke said:



			I suppose it just goes to show pressure gets to everyone.
It seemed to me this week over the first 3 rounds Scott did not miss much
and his long putting was spot on.
However last night he looked dodgy at least.
Aimpoint seems ok but if your tightening up due to the pressure,and your stroke is wavering
imo it wont help,in fact Adam Scott looked a poor putter in the last round.
I think he has a great all round game and will definitely be contesting majors,but
the question for me is can he handle the pressure.
He has in the past,perhaps last night was a rare occasion it did not.
		
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Leading from gun to tape is always difficult.  Remember Rory McIlroy at PGA National a few weeks ago or Bubba at TPC Scottsdale prior to that.  3 Majors between them. Scott is an excellent player, but comparing him to TW around 2000/01 is just plain wrong. In terms of the belly putter, it will definitely hurt both his and Keegan Bradley when they finally are forced to take them out of the bag.  However Scott won big tournaments prior to using it.


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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 26, 2014)

Steve Bamford said:



			Leading from gun to tape is always difficult.  Remember Rory McIlroy at PGA National a few weeks ago or Bubba at TPC Scottsdale prior to that.  3 Majors between them. Scott is an excellent player, but comparing him to TW around 2000/01 is just plain wrong. In terms of the belly putter, it will definitely hurt both his and Keegan Bradley when they finally are forced to take them out of the bag.  However Scott won big tournaments prior to using it.
		
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Scott is actually quoted as saying he doesn't think the change will affect him that much, he has said he could go back now and putt just as well as with the cheat-stick.


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## cookelad (Mar 26, 2014)

HawkeyeMS said:



			Scott is actually quoted as saying he doesn't think the change will affect him that much, he has said he could go back now and putt just as well as with the *cheat-stick*.
		
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## HawkeyeMS (Mar 26, 2014)

cookelad said:



View attachment 9705

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Didn't take long for that to be spotted did it 

Is that butter or salted?


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