# Sol Campbell



## Pin-seeker (Mar 1, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26383249
Sorry but this is pathetic. Suppose he got what he wanted & people are talking about his book.


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## Dodger (Mar 1, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26383249
Sorry but this is pathetic. Suppose he got what he wanted & people are talking about his book.
		
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If he had been born white he wouldn't have been the athlete nor the build he was so no doubt would not have played for them.

If my Granny had baws she'd been my Grandad.


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## JCW (Mar 1, 2014)

Very Good Centre Back in his time  but some things are better not said , its his book and he has said it now but he  should have done it when he was in his prime not now , sour grapes some might say .But has he got a point , for me I don't think so ................


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## MegaSteve (Mar 2, 2014)

No surprise really... Fine footballer but a very complex character...


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## Jack_bfc (Mar 2, 2014)

inverted racism.....


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 2, 2014)

A very cheap shot by a half-decent player.

The accusation is easy to make and immensely difficult to disprove i.e. you cannot prove a negative,


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 2, 2014)

Has England ever had a black captain.
Des Walker, John Barnes?


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## Robobum (Mar 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Has England ever had a black captain.
Des Walker, John Barnes?
		
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Campbell 
Ince
Rio Ferdinand


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## JCW (Mar 2, 2014)

Robobum said:



			Campbell 
Ince
Rio Ferdinand
		
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Did Viv Anderson get the honour at anytime ?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 2, 2014)

JCW said:



			Did Viv Anderson get the honour at anytime ?
		
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I think the fact he's singled out Owen is harsh too! 

Can't say I had any inclination to buy he's book in the first place but now I certainly won't. Surely his move to arsenal from spurs would have been a hot enough topic to sell the book on. 

A quality defender during his time, but for my money not Cambrian material as was too quiet.


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## Andy808 (Mar 2, 2014)

Has he tought it might have been that he wasn't the right material to be England captain?
Great defender but never a national captain IMHO.
moaning for the sake of moaning and some easy publicity if you ask me.


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## sev112 (Mar 2, 2014)

Thought all of the extracts in the ST today were all pathetic really, not least his "lack of respect" for Sherwood, because Sherwood wanted to be captain more than him.

Reasonable player, flakey mental game, reinforced by these examples.


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## Rumpokid (Mar 2, 2014)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Has England ever had a black captain.
Des Walker, John Barnes?
		
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Are you serious??..Have Scotland.?..What's your point?


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## Rumpokid (Mar 2, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26383249
Sorry but this is pathetic. Suppose he got what he wanted & people are talking about his book.[/QUOTE
Spot on..]
		
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## JCW (Mar 2, 2014)

:smirk:



Rumpokid said:





Pin-seeker said:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26383249
Sorry but this is pathetic. Suppose he got what he wanted & people are talking about his book.[/QUOTE
Spot on..]
		
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Most likely advised by his agent to do so , maybe he should have just said his real reason or make one up as to why he left spurs for all clubs Arsenal , that be better and he just upset spurs fans , sorry spurs fans , just making a point , Arsenal are a bigger club anyhow  :smirk::smirk::smirk:
		
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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 2, 2014)

A sound bite intended to provoke discussion and sell more units. Pure publicity stunt. To be honest I thought he was an OK player but never England captain material on a long term basis. It makes no difference the colour of a mans skin, if he doesn't have the skills or attributes he isn't the man for the job


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 2, 2014)

Sounds like someone is trying to boost book sales. To be fair this is quite a cynical attempt at doing so too in my opinion


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## jak kez 187 (Mar 3, 2014)

He is a tit.


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## Rooter (Mar 3, 2014)

End of thread right there! nail and head.

he was a decent CB, that's it. far better leaders in the team when he played.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Lots of highly sceptical and dismissive comments here. To be honest, I don't really know or remember enough about what was happening in the England team when Sol was playing at that level. However, football undoubtedly has a racist element. Things are improving but, it follows logically that they were worse when Sol was playing than now. If such a prominent black player feels he was the victim of racial discrimination I'd hope his views were taken seriously and the source of a bit of soul-searching in certain circles.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Lots of highly sceptical and dismissive comments here. To be honest, I don't really know or remember enough about what was happening in the England team when Sol was playing at that level. However, football undoubtedly has a racist element. Things are improving but, it follows logically that they were worse when Sol was playing than now. If such a prominent black player feels he was the victim of racial discrimination I'd hope his views were taken seriously and the source of a bit of soul-searching in certain circles.
		
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But does he feel that was the case? Or does he feel that this idea will sell more books. To dismiss racism was rife in football would be foolish. But he played for England whilst 'a foreigner' picked the team so I would suggest. Don't pick him as he's black is a far fetched idea when it came to picking captain.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			But does he feel that was the case? Or does he feel that this idea will sell more books. To dismiss racism was rife in football would be foolish. But he played for England whilst 'a foreigner' picked the team so I would suggest. Don't pick him as he's black is a far fetched idea when it came to picking captain.
		
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I'm sure that Sol has experienced racial prejudice and discrimination at various times in his life. I doubt that someone like that would invent a discrimination claim just to "sell a few books". I know very little about him but, I mean, does he even really need the money?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'm sure that Sol has experienced racial prejudice and discrimination at various times in his life. I doubt that someone like that would invent a discrimination claim just to "sell a few books". I know very little about him but, I mean, does he even really need the money?
		
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Im sure he did face it during his life time. But I doubt very much that he wasn't made captain because he was black. Many good players don't captain their country or even play for them. Race has no bearing on that. He may no need the money, but then Rooney doesn't need 300k a week, but still he gets it. I would suggest its more about his ego.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Im sure he did face it during his life time. But I doubt very much that he wasn't made captain because he was black. Many good players don't captain their country or even play for them. Race has no bearing on that. He may no need the money, but then Rooney doesn't need 300k a week, but still he gets it. I would suggest its more about his ego.
		
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As I said, I don't have an opinion on whether he is right or not; just that the accusation should be taken seriously. You say "Race has no bearing on that" and you might be correct but Sol Campbell knows a damn sight more about it than you or anyone here who has chosen to deride him for coming out and saying it.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			As I said, I don't have an opinion on whether he is right or not; just that the accusation should be taken seriously. You say "Race has no bearing on that" and you might be correct but Sol Campbell knows a damn sight more about it than you or anyone here who has chosen to deride him for coming out and saying it.
		
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Why should it be taken seriously? He played in an era that had already hd nice as captain, so we had already selected a black captain. His career was when Adams was captain, then shearer and then beckham. I don't know many that would argue that these three men lead their country well. Sol wasn't picked as captain as there were better choices. Is there racism In the world. Yes. But does every decision that goes against someone of a different race arise because of racism? No. 


I think it's a dangerous precedent to give credit to ever claim of racism in fear of being racist if you dismiss it. Hence my opinion that Sol Campbell is clearly bitter. But has no basis for it. Unless  he thinks he was better that the aforementioned players (and that just suggest. What I said, that his ego needed a massage).


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## Foxholer (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I'm sure that Sol has experienced racial prejudice and discrimination at various times in his life. I doubt that someone like that would invent a discrimination claim just to "sell a few books". I know very little about him but, I mean, does he even really need the money?
		
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Here's something of a rebuttal of his claims - which, from my memory of the team had more obvious Captains than Sol. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26414575 He seems to be a bit ott with the Black/White claims too. And that bizarre walkout at half-time! 

Here's a pretty sympathetic article on him from some time ago - when $5M/year was an obscene amount of money!

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e/inside-the-mind-of-sol-campbell-411153.html

Going by the personality portrayed by the article, I don't believe he was ever real Captain material!


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			As I said, I don't have an opinion on whether he is right or not; just that the accusation should be taken seriously. You say "Race has no bearing on that" and you might be correct but Sol Campbell knows a damn sight more about it than you or anyone here who has chosen to deride him for coming out and saying it.
		
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It's accusations like this that could make genuine cases not be taken seriously. Very arrogant of him to think that the only reason he wasn't a regular England captain was because of the colour of his skin. 
Sorry but he's played the race card to sell his book & he's made himself look a pillock.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It's accusations like this that could make genuine cases not be taken seriously. Very arrogant of him to think that the only reason he wasn't a regular England captain was because of the colour of his skin. 
Sorry but he's played the race card to sell his book & he's made himself look a pillock.
		
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Assuming these claims are false, you'd be correct. I just see a lot if people dismissing them out of hand and insulting the man. It takes a lot it guts to put your head up and claim discrimination knowing the inevitable abuse that will follow.

Maybe, just maybe, his allegations should be considered before we start calling him a "tit" etc.....?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Assuming these claims are false, you'd be correct. I just see a lot if people dismissing them out of hand and insulting the man. It takes a lot it guts to put your head up and claim discrimination knowing the inevitable abuse that will follow.

Maybe, just maybe, his allegations should be considered before we start calling him a "tit" etc.....?
		
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But how do you propose his allegations are investigated. Already two of the England managers for whom he played have dismissed his claims and insisted that there was no pressure upon them from within the FA over their choice of captain.

Obviously I don't know Sol Campbell but from the stands he never struck me as much of a leader although a decent player.

Interestingly Ian Wright, on Radio 5, stated that, in his view, it was not skin colour that was the issue but rather that there were better candidates for the role.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			But how do you propose his allegations are investigated. Already two of the England managers for whom he played have dismissed his claims and insisted that there was no pressure upon them from within the FA over their choice of captain.

Obviously I don't know Sol Campbell but from the stands he never struck me as much of a leader although a decent player.

Interestingly Ian Wright, on Radio 5, stated that, in his view, it was not skin colour that was the issue but rather that there were better candidates for the role.
		
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No idea how to investigate but the fa could invite him in to discuss it. It's a hard one, I understand the comments of others saying there were better candidates etc. My only point is I don't accept he would make such an allegation unless, rightly or wrongly, he sincerely believed it. It'd sit easier with me if they tried to get to the root of why he feels that rather than dismiss it out of hand.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			No idea how to investigate but the fa could invite him in to discuss it. It's a hard one, I understand the comments of others saying there were better candidates etc. My only point is I don't accept he would make such an allegation unless, rightly or wrongly, he sincerely believed it. It'd sit easier with me if they tried to get to the root of why he feels that rather than dismiss it out of hand.
		
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I am afraid I am rather more cynical. It is generally accepted that if a biography is to be successfully serialised it requires a few "headlines" such as this accusation.

I agree that he is unlikely to need the money but then why did he choose to have the book trailed and extracts floated in the Sunday Times if he is not bothered by sales.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			I am afraid I am rather more cynical. It is generally accepted that if a biography is to be successfully serialised it requires a few "headlines" such as this accusation.

I agree that he is unlikely to need the money but then why did he choose to have the book trailed and extracts floated in the Sunday Times if he is not bothered by sales.
		
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As are the majority of posters it would seem. I am merely raising an alternative perspective.


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## Andy808 (Mar 3, 2014)

jak kez 187 said:



			He is a tit.
		
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Blue, Great or Coal?


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Assuming these claims are false, you'd be correct. I just see a lot if people dismissing them out of hand and insulting the man. It takes a lot it guts to put your head up and claim discrimination knowing the inevitable abuse that will follow.

Maybe, just maybe, his allegations should be considered before we start calling him a "tit" etc.....?
		
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Surely every black player could make these claims. It's not brave when it's used to sell a book & make money. Why didn't he Voice his concerns at the time? 
England managers pick their captains,so he's basically accusing them of been racist. Don't think I'd be too happy been accused of this just because some ones got the hump that he wasn't the right man for the job.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Surely every black player could make these claims. It's not brave when it's used to sell a book & make money. Why didn't he Voice his concerns at the time? 
England managers pick their captains,so he's basically accusing them of been racist. Don't think I'd be too happy been accused of this just because some ones got the hump that he wasn't the right man for the job.
		
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I can only speculate but it is very hard to raise such concerns, even with cast iron proof, which he clearly did not have. Do you think he'd still make the squads if he claimed the manager was racially discriminating against him? How do you think that backlash would have compared against what he's getting now?

We simply don't know. Everyone else seems quick to dismiss what he's saying, I just think maybe it'd be worth trying to find out the truth.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I can only speculate but it is very hard to raise such concerns, even with cast iron proof, which he clearly did not have. Do you think he'd still make the squads if he claimed the manager was racially discriminating against him? How do you think that backlash would have compared against what he's getting now?

We simply don't know. Everyone else seems quick to dismiss what he's saying, I just think maybe it'd be worth trying to find out the truth.
		
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If he had proof that the manager was racially discriminating against him then the manager would have been out of a job. Campbell must have a really high opinion of himself if he thinks that he deserved to be captain so much more than any of his team mates. 
Personally I don't think he was an obvious choice for Captain,& my opinion has nothing to do with skin colour. You can't go round accusing people of been racist with out evidence.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			It's accusations like this that could make genuine cases not be taken seriously. Very arrogant of him to think that the only reason he wasn't a regular England captain was because of the colour of his skin. 
Sorry but he's played the race card to sell his book & he's made himself look a pillock.
		
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That just about sums it up.
Saw him being interviewed this morning, seems to have a very large ego, which is never a good starting point for a team captain.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			You can't go round accusing people of been racist with out evidence.
		
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Ok, devil's advocate for a moment, why not?


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## Foxholer (Mar 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			If he had proof that the manager was racially discriminating against him then the manager would have been out of a job.
		
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Unfortunately, probably not true - at least back then!

I expect Ron Atkinson would probably have had a significantly shorter career in Management!



Pin-seeker said:



			You can't go round accusing people of been racist with out evidence.
		
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Alas, also probably not true - then or now!


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ok, devil's advocate for a moment, why not?
		
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Because the person accussed, if innocent will be tarnished. Same as I think anybody found guilty in accusing someone of rape should be named. I'm not talking cases with lake of evidence. Genuine false cases where it's clearly proven the accusations were false. Innocent til proven guilty it was always said, yet once you're accused of something your life is affected forgever!


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Because the person accussed, if innocent will be tarnished. Same as I think anybody found guilty in accusing someone of rape should be named. I'm not talking cases with lake of evidence. Genuine false cases where it's clearly proven the accusations were false. Innocent til proven guilty it was always said, yet once you're accused of something your life is affected forgever!
		
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So you should never accuse anyone of anything, even if you know 100% they're guilty, unless you can conclusively prove it?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			So you should never accuse anyone of anything, even if you know 100% they're guilty, unless you can conclusively prove it?
		
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No, my point is that there's a time and place. He's basically accused the football association and his managers of racism. Is he going to pursue it in court? Now, he's done it in a book knowing there will be no repercussions. As to never accusing someone. If I went to the police I would expect them to investigate before charges are made. Then people may be named. I can't see what he was expectng to gain from this. Other than publicity.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 3, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Unfortunately, probably not true - at least back then!

I expect Ron Atkinson would probably have had a significantly shorter career in Management!



Alas, also probably not true - then or now!
		
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Back then?? It's not that long ago that Campbell played.


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## Dodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Maybe it was more to do with his relationship with Lennox Lewis.....allegedly.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 3, 2014)

Andy808 said:



			Blue, Great or Coal?
		
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Long-tailed might be more appropriate in the circumstances.

Aren't captains supposed to be inspirational?  Not the first word that comes to my mind with Sol.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			So you should never accuse anyone of anything, even if you know 100% they're guilty, unless you can conclusively prove it?
		
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Why did he not raise the issue at the time? Couldn't be that he hadn't got a book to sell then, or could it?


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Why did he not raise the issue at the time? Couldn't be that he hadn't got a book to sell then, or could it?
		
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Because he knew it would be hard to prove and rocking the boat would have threatened his place in the squad never mind the captaincy?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Because he knew it would be hard to prove and rocking the boat would have threatened his place in the squad never mind the captaincy?
		
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If he felt that strongly about it, and felt his bosses and the institution were inherently racist. Surely he wouldn't of wanted to have been part of it?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 3, 2014)

"



FairwayDodger said:



			Because he knew it would be hard to prove and rocking the boat would have threatened his place in the squad never mind the captaincy?
		
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What would be hard to prove?

An unfounded charge can never be proven so if it was truly his belief the timing of his accusation would have been immaterial and "rocking the boat" would not have been an issue if he had believed this as strongly as he now claims.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			If he felt that strongly about it, and felt his bosses and the institution were inherently racist. Surely he wouldn't of wanted to have been part of it?
		
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I think that's quite a naive question. Have you ever been discriminated against at work? How would complaining about it have gone down, especially if you couldn't conclusively prove it?


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			"

What would be hard to prove?

An unfounded charge can never be proven so if it was truly his belief the timing of his accusation would have been immaterial and "rocking the boat" would not have been an issue if he had believed this as strongly as he now claims.
		
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I think you're missing my point. It's not always easy to "do the right thing" at the time, no matter how much you might want to, if you have something to lose.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think that's quite a naive question. Have you ever been discriminated against at work? How would complaining about it have gone down, especially if you couldn't conclusively prove it?
		
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How is it naive, the repercussions that your or I could expect. Financial problems mainly if we were to lose our job or feel pressured to leave, simply don't exist for him. He had more money than he needed and also it was at intl level. Arsenal wouldn't have stopped playing him, as most clubs consider intl football a nuisance. 


As to your question, no I've not been discriminated against. Annoyed by colleagues and had issues yes. But a bit of banter that foes to far at my workplace isn't as severe as this racism he is claiming took place. Unfortunately being a white male, I've suffered neither racism or sexism. But as they are clearly the too many discriminative factors at work. You either bring it up if you feel strongly enough, or you swallow your principles. 


Either way. In my opinion, best case for sole he's got no principles and was happy to play for people he detested. Worse case he's a liar massaging his own ego.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Either way. In my opinion, best case for sole he's got no principles and was happy to play for people he detested. Worse case he's a liar massaging his own ego.
		
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Ok, so I accept you think he's making it up and, if so, I can understand your contempt for him. But, if he's telling the truth, how can you simply dismiss it as him having no principles? Can you not empathise with someone in what must have been a difficult situation?


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## Foxholer (Mar 3, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Back then?? It's not that long ago that Campbell played.
		
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2006?

Thankfully, there has been a huge change in attitudes, at least as from what I observe, since then!



Dodger said:



			.....allegedly.
		
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Careful! This phrase protects neither you nor GM! Though the fact that the 'allegation' (rumour) is quite widespread and old - even if a load of tosh - probably mitigates any likelihood of reprisal - in this instance.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Ok, so I accept you think he's making it up and, if so, I can understand your contempt for him. But, if he's telling the truth, how can you simply dismiss it as him having no principles? Can you not empathise with someone in what must have been a difficult situation?
		
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I sympathise with anybody that suffers discrimination. But as I strongly believe in this case he hasn't. Not I don't feel anything for him. As I have already said, he was I a perfect position to raise awareness IF it had happened. What would he have lost by claiming it. A few caps for racists he didn't like? The same racists that did actually pick him as captain on occasions. Maybe just maybe when picked he didn't do a good enough job?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think you're missing my point. It's not always easy to "do the right thing" at the time, no matter how much you might want to, if you have something to lose.
		
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We are not talking about some young person on Â£25k p.a. desperate to hold on to their job.

At the time he was a very wealthy youngish man with extensive connections in the media who would have been most willing to publicise and support his case, if he had one.

In an earlier post you rightly criticised those who condemned him out of hand but you fail to criticise Sol Campbell for the unsubstantiated accusation he has made that could seriously damage the reputations of the then England managers and senior FA officials.

Racism or any other hate or prejudice should never be tolerated in any walk of life but, because of this, unfounded allegations should also never be made.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			In an earlier post you rightly criticised those who condemned him out of hand but you fail to criticise Sol Campbell for the unsubstantiated accusation he has made that could seriously damage the reputations of the then England managers and senior FA officials.

Racism or any other hate or prejudice should never be tolerated in any walk of life but, because of this, unfounded allegations should also never be made.
		
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Agreed. But we don't know whether or not there's any basis in this; we're all just speculating.


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Agreed. But we don't know whether or not there's any basis in this; we're all just speculating.
		
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He hasn't from what I've read said anybody was racist to him. So it's his his perception that the system (chairmen, managers, coaches, colleagues and fans) were all inherently racist. So basically what he's said has no repercussions to him as he's not named a racist. It's a headline that this post shows has worked in gaining attention. Since he has no retired, what was to stop him from contacting the FA with his thoughts and working on it? Google Sol Campbell racism out. See how much support he gives (doesn't) to the cause! He's also studying to be a coach and will work abroad as England's thoughts in racism are apparently archaic. Good luck to him, hopefully he'll be a success in Russia or Spain.


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## Foxholer (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			As to your question, no I've not been discriminated against. Annoyed by colleagues and had issues yes. But a bit of banter that foes to far at my workplace isn't as severe as this racism he is claiming took place. Unfortunately being a white male, I've suffered neither racism or sexism. But as they are clearly the too many discriminative factors at work. You either bring it up if you feel strongly enough, or you swallow your principles.
		
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And, as a white male myself, I can at least see that that is (a niaive but) major part of the problem - the inability to see the from the other side. It's not so much a case of 'swallowing your principles' as having them crushed!

Though there's also scope for a lot of 'too far the other way' claims, and I believe there have been plenty of those in all levels of employment.



Papas1982 said:



			Either way. In my opinion, best case for sole he's got no principles and was happy to play for people he detested. Worse case he's a liar massaging his own ego.
		
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I don't believe that's actually 'best case'. I'm more inclined towards him being deluded and also doing some marketing!



Papas1982 said:



			Google Sol Campbell racism out. See how much support he gives (doesn't) to the cause!
		
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That's certainly a good point - and one I meant to raise earlier - but couldn't think of the organisation!


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			He hasn't from what I've read said anybody was racist to him. So it's his his perception that the system (chairmen, managers, coaches, colleagues and fans) were all inherently racist. So basically what he's said has no repercussions to him as he's not named a racist. It's a headline that this post shows has worked in gaining attention. Since he has no retired, what was to stop him from contacting the FA with his thoughts and working on it? Google Sol Campbell racism out. See how much support he gives (doesn't) to the cause! He's also studying to be a coach and will work abroad as England's thoughts in racism are apparently archaic. Good luck to him, hopefully he'll be a success in Russia or Spain.
		
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Fair enough, if he's just mouthing off with no basis then he's out of order.

But. 

What if he's right, what are the implications of that? Is the rush to condemn him because you all don't want it to be true and aren't prepared to take a step back and consider that maybe he has a point?


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Fair enough, if he's just mouthing off with no basis then he's out of order.

But. 

What if he's right, what are the implications of that? Is the rush to condemn him because you all don't want it to be true and aren't prepared to take a step back and consider that maybe he has a point?
		
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We're circling here. I accept that if it were true he'd be in a difficult position if a normal person. But I dont think he would have the same worries about his future as overs and so should of acted. 


As I have already said and repeated.  There is no support for him from anywhere. Kick it out have openly criticised him, as have black colleagues.  


So I can't offer him this support on a basis of "what if".


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Fair enough, if he's just mouthing off with no basis then he's out of order.

But. 

What if he's right, what are the implications of that? Is the rush to condemn him because you all don't want it to be true and aren't prepared to take a step back and consider that maybe he has a point?
		
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re the implications IF he were right. This country has done more than any of our European counterparts in trying to rid football of racism. But he has accused everyone from top to bottom of being racist. I don't see how we could possibly prove to him that's not the case as it's his (in my opinion false) perception


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## Foxholer (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			re the implications IF he were right. This country has done more than any of our European counterparts in trying to rid football of racism.
		
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Have they? I believe England has been one of the slower/weaker FAs in this regard!

Can you actually identify any action other than the 'Kick it Out' campaign - that hasn't been hugely active of late. Don't tell me racism no longer exists in English Football! 

Tokenism and rhetoric imo!


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## Papas1982 (Mar 3, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Have they? I believe England has been one of the slower/weaker FAs in this regard!

Can you actually identify any action other than the 'Kick it Out' campaign - that hasn't been hugely active of late. Don't tell me racism no longer exists in English Football! 

Tokenism and rhetoric imo!
		
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I don't think much action has been taken lately as incidents haven't occurred as much. I can't remember an intl break where an Eastern European. Team hasn't had fans making money noises. Same happens in Spain too. Other than the kick it out campaign, what are they meant to do. Racism in this country is not just down to football fans. It's society, and whilst it still occurs. I hear far more 'he did this because he's a racist' than I actually here racist statements.


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## Foxholer (Mar 3, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I don't think much action has been taken lately as incidents haven't occurred as much. I can't remember an intl break where an Eastern European. Team hasn't had fans making money noises. Same happens in Spain too. Other than the kick it out campaign, what are they meant to do. Racism in this country is not just down to football fans. It's society, and whilst it still occurs. I hear far more 'he did this because he's a racist' than I actually here racist statements.
		
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I did say 'one of the slower'. The abysmal Spanish and (some) Eastern bloc countries does not mean that England has 'done the most'! You seem to be admitting that you don't know what more (than the 1 thing it has done) that England can do! I'd suggest that's quite different attitude to saying 'England has done more than anyone else'! As I stated in the earlier post 'Tokenism and Rhetoric'!

btw. I don't know what more they can do either, but they should certainly not 'rest on their laurels' thinking they have done everything possible!


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 4, 2014)

My understanding is Campbell was playing when Shearer then Beckham were regular captains.

As a case in point other players in recent years have played more games for England and been captain less than Campbell, this includes Lampard.

Sorry Sol this is a very sad effort at selling a few more books, if I were you I would employ an agent who is likely to advise you better.


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## FairwayDodger (Mar 4, 2014)

An article which, while acknowledging the problems with sol's accusation, makes my point a bit more eloquently....

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifesty...ss-out-england-captaincy-because-he-was-black


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## Birchy (Mar 4, 2014)

Look at the players who were captain while he was in the team. Only Owen is there a potential question mark over. Even then Sol Campbell wasn't the most vocal of players.

He is clearly whacked off his face or just trying to sell more books. Deluded idiot.


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## kozmos (Mar 4, 2014)

Don't care about the England captaincy. Maybe his character and his personality wasn't deemed strong enough regardless of his undoubted ability as a defender. Tagging it with the simplicity of it being just about the colour of a players skin is insulting.
Judas will remain forever the personification of Arsenal football club. When they moved to North London, local supporters frequented both White Hart Lane and Highbury with some eventually remaining red and white. A fanbase birthed from fairweathers and plastics. Basically, Spurs fans that decided to visit the new club in North London and not travel up the Seven Sisters to the club that has always sat there.
Everything from their franchised inspired move for money from financial ruin to bribery and renaming Gillsepe Road stinks of the same stench that owned the area around their original Plumstead home. Judas lied and lied and then lied some more for the sole purpose of money (contract run-down) before making the switch. Yet he has never once accepted this. On his return he claimed the abuse he got from Spurs was race-driven. He's never let go of this. Never. That's some grand delusion he embraces even today. That's why he's hated.
Captain for ten years? More like a **** for a life-time. Spooky dml.


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## USER1999 (Mar 4, 2014)

kozmos said:



			Don't care about the England captaincy. Maybe his character and his personality wasn't deemed strong enough regardless of his undoubted ability as a defender. Tagging it with the simplicity of it being just about the colour of a players skin is insulting.
Judas will remain forever the personification of Arsenal football club. When they moved to North London, local supporters frequented both White Hart Lane and Highbury with some eventually remaining red and white. A fanbase birthed from fairweathers and plastics. Basically, Spurs fans that decided to visit the new club in North London and not travel up the Seven Sisters to the club that has always sat there.
Everything from their franchised inspired move for money from financial ruin to bribery and renaming Gillsepe Road stinks of the same stench that owned the area around their original Plumstead home. Judas lied and lied and then lied some more for the sole purpose of money (contract run-down) before making the switch. Yet he has never once accepted this. On his return he claimed the abuse he got from Spurs was race-driven. He's never let go of this. Never. That's some grand delusion he embraces even today. That's why he's hated.
Captain for ten years? More like a **** for a life-time. Spooky dml.
		
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This isn't about club football, it's about England.


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## Foxholer (Mar 4, 2014)

kozmos said:



			Don't care about the England captaincy. Maybe his character and his personality wasn't deemed strong enough regardless of his undoubted ability as a defender. Tagging it with the simplicity of it being just about the colour of a players skin is insulting.
Judas will remain forever the personification of Arsenal football club. When they moved to North London, local supporters frequented both White Hart Lane and Highbury with some eventually remaining red and white. A fanbase birthed from fairweathers and plastics. Basically, Spurs fans that decided to visit the new club in North London and not travel up the Seven Sisters to the club that has always sat there.
Everything from their franchised inspired move for money from financial ruin to bribery and renaming Gillsepe Road stinks of the same stench that owned the area around their original Plumstead home. Judas lied and lied and then lied some more for the sole purpose of money (contract run-down) before making the switch. Yet he has never once accepted this. On his return he claimed the abuse he got from Spurs was race-driven. He's never let go of this. Never. That's some grand delusion he embraces even today. That's why he's hated.
Captain for ten years? More like a **** for a life-time. Spooky dml.
		
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Seems like a very bitter 'Tottingham' fan.

Sad to see such hatred! Rivalry I can understand; this sort of bile I can't!

And as Murph posted, nothing really to do with the topic.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 4, 2014)

Tbh I've only read the link I posted. What makes him believe it was race related? 
As for there been no long term black England captains,I can't think of any black players that have played for England that should necessarily have been Captain. Nothing to do with skin colour. Adams,Shearer,Robson,Beckham.... We're all obvious captains for me.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 14, 2014)

Just watching the Geoff Shreeves interview with Camplbell & it confirms just how much of a self obsessed idiot he is.


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