# Tax and Benefits Cuts



## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

And so this week tax and benefits cuts kick in.

I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.

I calculate that my sister and her husband - he is disabled on PIP and she is his carer on carer allowance - will be about Â£50 a *week* WORSE off.

The *additional *Â£50/week we get will make no difference to our standard of living

The Â£50 a week *cut *my sister and her husband suffer reduces their income by ONE THIRD from Â£150/week to about Â£100/week

Frankly that is disgusting and quite abhorrent - particularly as we know that Brexit will simply extend and intensify austerity cuts.  And who will suffer most from these cuts.  Not my wife and I.

Tax and Benefits cuts are *choices *that this Tory government has decided to make.  Somebody justify.  Because I see absolutely none.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2017)

Give your Â£50 to them then


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

bobmac said:



			Give your Â£50 to them then
		
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Oh how very funny. Inevitable.

And your justification for the cuts?


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## ger147 (Apr 2, 2017)

No tax cuts for me, I'll be paying approximately 4 grand extra tax this year and then about another 2 grand extra tax on top of that the year after.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

ger147 said:



			No tax cuts for me, I'll be paying approximately 4 grand extra tax this year and then about another 2 grand extra tax on top of that the year after.
		
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That wouldn't have been in the plan - as neither was the cut in joint income from Â£7500 a year to Â£5000 a year that my sister and hubby have suffered


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## PhilTheFragger (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			- particularly as we know that Brexit will simply extend and intensify austerity cuts.
		
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No we dont

Nobody knows
even the people involved in the Brexit Negotiations dont know doodly squat yet

I do however agree that there should be a proper safety net in place for those that do need state assistance and that in certain cases it is the most vulnerable in society who are coming off worst, the assessment process is arbitrary and is subjective and needs looking at.

One of the reasons benefits have been hit is to entice those families for whom benefits has been a way of life for generations, off benefits and into work. this is working, but it is a balancing act and they havnt got it right yet


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so this week tax and benefits cuts kick in.

I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.

I calculate that my sister and her husband - he is disabled on PIP and she is his carer on carer allowance - will be about Â£50 a *week* WORSE off.

The *additional *Â£50/week we get will make no difference to our standard of living

The Â£50 a week *cut *my sister and her husband suffer reduces their income by ONE THIRD from Â£150/week to about Â£100/week

Frankly that is disgusting and quite abhorrent - particularly as we know that Brexit will simply extend and intensify austerity cuts.  And who will suffer most from these cuts.  Not my wife and I.

Tax and Benefits cuts are *choices *that this Tory government has decided to make.  Somebody justify.  Because I see absolutely none.
		
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Are you sure about your figures?
Carers Allowance for 2017/18 is Â£62.70 per week, a rise of 60p per week from last year,  that means you are saying PIP has been cut from Â£88.00 per week to Â£38.00 per week and it hasn't!
The 2 lower components of PIP are still about Â£80.00 per week


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## Old Skier (Apr 2, 2017)

His figures were wrong on the other thread, but hay ho, let's not stop a tear jerking rant.


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## Hobbit (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so this week tax and benefits cuts kick in.

I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.

I calculate that my sister and her husband - he is disabled on PIP and she is his carer on carer allowance - will be about Â£50 a *week* WORSE off.

The *additional *Â£50/week we get will make no difference to our standard of living

The Â£50 a week *cut *my sister and her husband suffer reduces their income by ONE THIRD from Â£150/week to about Â£100/week

Frankly that is disgusting and quite abhorrent - particularly as we know that Brexit will simply extend and intensify austerity cuts.  And who will suffer most from these cuts.  Not my wife and I.

Tax and Benefits cuts are *choices *that this Tory government has decided to make.  Somebody justify.  Because I see absolutely none.
		
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What is the point of anyone trying to justify them to you. 1) you aren't even close to being of a Tory persuasion, and 2) as we've seen from the Brexit thread you have a very closed mind to any type of reasoned argument. You often shift the focus of your subsidiary arguments as people provide evidence of your inaccuracies.



PhilTheFragger said:



			No we dont

Nobody knows
even the people involved in the Brexit Negotiations dont know doodly squat yet

I do however agree that there should be a proper safety net in place for those that do need state assistance and that in certain cases it is the most vulnerable in society who are coming off worst, the assessment process is arbitrary and is subjective and needs looking at.

One of the reasons benefits have been hit is to entice those families for whom benefits has been a way of life for generations, off benefits and into work. this is working, but it is a balancing act and they havnt got it right yet
		
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Now stop being sensible, it doesn't support his agenda.


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## Old Skier (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And your justification for the cuts?
		
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Someone has to pay for those buses.


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## bobmac (Apr 2, 2017)

Im still trying to work out if SILH is Â£50 a week or a month better off


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## jusme (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so this week tax and benefits cuts kick in.

I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.

I calculate that my sister and her husband - he is disabled on PIP and she is his carer on carer allowance - will be about Â£50 a *week* WORSE off.

The *additional *Â£50/week we get will make no difference to our standard of living

The Â£50 a week *cut *my sister and her husband suffer reduces their income by ONE THIRD from Â£150/week to about Â£100/week

Frankly that is disgusting and quite abhorrent - particularly as we know that Brexit will simply extend and intensify austerity cuts.  And who will suffer most from these cuts.  Not my wife and I.

Tax and Benefits cuts are *choices *that this Tory government has decided to make.  Somebody justify.  Because I see absolutely none.
		
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How are you reaching this Â£50 a week cut. I work in this field and I am struggling to see how you reach this amount. Are one or both on the work related group of ESA?


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## SocketRocket (Apr 2, 2017)

I believe you previously said your sister and BIL live in Scotland where the devolved government have the ability to set welfare rates.   Why are you not knocking the Scottish Government?


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## Tashyboy (Apr 2, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



			No we dont

Nobody knows
even the people involved in the Brexit Negotiations dont know doodly squat yet

I do however agree that there should be a proper safety net in place for those that do need state assistance and that in certain cases it is the most vulnerable in society who are coming off worst, the assessment process is arbitrary and is subjective and needs looking at.

One of the reasons benefits have been hit is to entice those families for whom benefits has been a way of life for generations, off benefits and into work. this is working, but it is a balancing act and they havnt got it right yet
		
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That last paragraph hits the nail on the head. Quite frankly I think successive governments have failed in tackling a generation plus of lazy people who have got by on benefits, which has been encouraged by successive governments of all three parties enabling people to survive on benefits alone. Before anyone starts banging a drum, I do not class disability benefits as part of my last statement. But having worked in the mining industry for 36 years I can assure you that some disability benefits want looking at as well.
There is something seriously wrong, when in this day and age single mothers who do not work and have no intentions of working, have a lifestyle which includes Sky and other luxuries when others  ( ie the ops relatives ) struggle to get by. Obviously there will be one or two upset by my mention of single mums. Well pm me and I will take you round to see my youngest daughter who fits into that last category rather nicely.


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you sure about your figures?
Carers Allowance for 2017/18 is Â£62.70 per week, a rise of 60p per week from last year,  that means you are saying PIP has been cut from Â£88.00 per week to Â£38.00 per week and it hasn't!
The 2 lower components of PIP are still about Â£80.00 per week
		
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.
as I receive pip I can assure you that Â£80 isnt one of the lower components ,I get Â£55 per week ,add that to my Â£73.10p per week and that is all i get to live on since my injury .


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

Norrin Radd said:



			.
as I receive pip I can assure you that Â£80 isnt one of the lower components ,I get Â£55 per week ,add that to my Â£73.10p per week and that is all i get to live on since my injury .
		
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I meant the 2 lower components added together make about Â£80.00 not one of them, sorry for confusion :thup:
Add that to the carers allowance and I make that Â£140+, hence confusion with op's statement.


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I meant the 2 lower components added together make about Â£80.00 not one of them, sorry for confusion :thup:
Add that to the carers allowance and I make that Â£140+, hence confusion with op's statement.
		
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.
confusion no more :thup:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



			No we dont

Nobody knows
even the people involved in the Brexit Negotiations dont know doodly squat yet

I do however agree that there should be a proper safety net in place for those that do need state assistance and that in certain cases it is the most vulnerable in society who are coming off worst, the assessment process is arbitrary and is subjective and needs looking at.

One of the reasons benefits have been hit is to entice those families for whom benefits has been a way of life for generations, off benefits and into work. this is working, but it is a balancing act and they havnt got it right yet
		
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..and so have prices I the shops not actually started to go up - and are predicted to continue to rise as the fall in the pound impacts imported foodstuffs


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			I believe you previously said your sister and BIL live in Scotland where the devolved government have the ability to set welfare rates.   Why are you not knocking the Scottish Government?
		
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That's a pretty silly pivot and attempt to ignore the question as it's not a justification at all.  As my sister and her husband receive UK gov benefits let's just for a moment imagine that my sister does not live in Scotland but lives south of the border.  And your justification is?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			Are you sure about your figures?
Carers Allowance for 2017/18 is Â£62.70 per week, a rise of 60p per week from last year,  that means you are saying PIP has been cut from Â£88.00 per week to Â£38.00 per week and it hasn't!
The 2 lower components of PIP are still about Â£80.00 per week
		
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Carers allowance is capped at Â£62.10 week if 35hrs caring assessed to be required and is reduced pro rata accordingly.  Quoting from gov.uk

_You could get Â£62.10 a week if you care for someone at least 35 hours a week and they get certain benefits._

And on PIP

_Personal Independence Payment (PIP) helps with some of the extra costs caused by long-term ill-health or a disability if youâ€™re aged 16 to 64.

You could get between Â£21.80 and Â£139.75 a week.

The rate depends on how your condition affects you, not the condition itself.
_


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

bobmac said:



			Im still trying to work out if SILH is Â£50 a week or a month better off  

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What is difficult to understand...quoting from my OP

_I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.

 I calculate that my sister and her husband - he is disabled on PIP and she is his carer on carer allowance - will be about Â£50 a week WORSE off._


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Carers allowance is capped at Â£62.10 week if 35hrs caring assessed to be required and is reduced pro rata accordingly.  Quoting from gov.uk

_You could get Â£62.10 a week if you care for someone at least 35 hours a week and they get certain benefits._

And on PIP

_Personal Independence Payment (PIP) helps with some of the extra costs caused by long-term ill-health or a disability if youâ€™re aged 16 to 64.

You could get between Â£21.80 and Â£139.75 a week.

The rate depends on how your condition affects you, not the condition itself.
_

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Fully aware how these benefits work and if they've lost Â£50.00 per week it's because they've been reassessed or something, those benefits have not been cut, both benefits have seen a pathetic tiny increase.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

jusme said:



			How are you reaching this Â£50 a week cut. I work in this field and I am struggling to see how you reach this amount. Are one or both on the work related group of ESA?
		
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My sister's husband went through a PIP assessment and as a result of that they have seen the reduction fropm about Â£150/week to about Â£100/week


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			My sister's husband went through a PIP assessment and as a result of that they have seen the reduction fropm about Â£150/week to about Â£100/week
		
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That's totally different to how your OP came across, everyone on PIP can be reassessed.
He can also appeal the decision.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			That last paragraph hits the nail on the head. Quite frankly I think successive governments have failed in tackling a generation plus of lazy people who have got by on benefits, which has been encouraged by successive governments of all three parties enabling people to survive on benefits alone. Before anyone starts banging a drum, I do not class disability benefits as part of my last statement. But having worked in the mining industry for 36 years I can assure you that some disability benefits want looking at as well.
There is something seriously wrong, when in this day and age single mothers who do not work and have no intentions of working, have a lifestyle which includes Sky and other luxuries when others  ( ie the ops relatives ) struggle to get by. Obviously there will be one or two upset by my mention of single mums. Well pm me and I will take you round to see my youngest daughter who fits into that last category rather nicely.
		
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My B-I-L is disabled and my sister is his registered carer.  So the whole thing about lazy people avoiding work and single mums etc etc is just a diversion when some of the truths of benefit cuts are difficult - especially when they are happening at the same time as tax cuts and rising food and power costs - these clearly impacting the poorer proportionately MUCH harder.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			That's totally different to how your OP came across, everyone on PIP can be reassessed.
He can also appeal the decision.
		
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PIP and the related assessments are government policy are they not?  I do not know if they are appealing.  Nonetheless it is interesting that it is deemed OK that they can have an immediate cut in income of one third to under Â£14 a day - at the same time as the better off are getting a tax cut - of an amount that will make little difference - if any - to their quality of life.

It's is that juxtaposition that to me stinks


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 2, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			What is the point of anyone trying to justify them to you. 1) you aren't even close to being of a Tory persuasion, and 2) as we've seen from the Brexit thread you have a very closed mind to any type of reasoned argument. You often shift the focus of your subsidiary arguments as people provide evidence of your inaccuracies.



Now stop being sensible, it doesn't support his agenda.
		
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What agenda might that be - caring for the less well off of our society - if that's my agenda then I'm happy to go with it. I have stated what I think on this.   Meanwhile - what's your thinking on the wealthy getting tax cuts at the same time as benefits are being cut when food and energy prices are going up?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			PIP and the related assessments are government policy are they not?  I do not know if they are appealing.  Nonetheless it is interesting that it is deemed OK that they can have an immediate cut in income of one third to under Â£14 a day - at the same time as the better off are getting a tax cut - of an amount that will make little difference - if any - to their quality of life.

It's is that juxtaposition that to me stinks
		
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It's a disgrace the way it works, my wife receives PIP after suffering a Stroke and she is currently going through reassessment, the damage will never repair, but every 2 years she is put through the mill.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What is difficult to understand...quoting from my OP

_I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.

 I calculate that my sister and her husband - he is disabled on PIP and she is his carer on carer allowance - will be about Â£50 a week WORSE off._

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This is difficult to understand.  You posted:

"The *additional Â£50/week we get* will make no difference to our standard of living"


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## SocketRocket (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			That's a pretty silly pivot and attempt to ignore the question as it's not a justification at all.  As my sister and her husband receive UK gov benefits let's just for a moment imagine that my sister does not live in Scotland but lives south of the border.  And your justification is?
		
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That she lives in Scotland and Scotland has devolved powers on welfare.  You have suggested that Scotland is a more socially aware country so why are they not giving more support to your sister.  

I don't really want to delve into your Sisters finances but I assume She and her Husband get other benefits like help with council tax and any housing costs.   Our Government get a lot of criticism from people like you but maybe you should look at many EU countries and how they care for their disabled.


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## ger147 (Apr 2, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What agenda might that be - caring for the less well off of our society - if that's my agenda then I'm happy to go with it. I have stated what I think on this.   Meanwhile - what's your thinking on the wealthy getting tax cuts at the same time as benefits are being cut when food and energy prices are going up?
		
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What tax cuts?  My tax bill is going up, quite considerably as it happens...


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## Three (Apr 2, 2017)

I've not read any posts and have gone straight to the end, so no disrespect meant to any genuine cases... 

However, having worked and lived abroad for many years, including in some very low economies, some of the benefit-claiming culture in the UK is nothing short of embarrassing. 
We live in a land where there is no excuse for poverty, no excuse for poor health that is solely due to lifestyle choices, and frankly speaking no excuse for many of the benefits that seemingly unworthy people, including members of my own family, feel they are entitled to.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 2, 2017)

Three said:



			I've not read any posts and have gone straight to the end, so no disrespect meant to any genuine cases... 

However, having worked and lived abroad for many years, including in some very low economies, some of the benefit-claiming culture in the UK is nothing short of embarrassing. 
We live in a land where there is no excuse for poverty, no excuse for poor health that is solely due to lifestyle choices, and frankly speaking no excuse for many of the benefits that seemingly unworthy people, including members of my own family, feel they are entitled to.
		
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Exactly.   You can understand the pull factor of Eastern EU and Asian people wanting to live in the UK and why we are spending so much on Welfare and have such a massive national debt.


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## MegaSteve (Apr 2, 2017)

Unfortunately, even though they'll go into denial, the majority that moan/complain about the welfare state believe all claimants are 'scroungers'... 

You know who you are...


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## SocketRocket (Apr 2, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Unfortunately, even though they'll go into denial, the majority that moan/complain about the welfare state believe all claimants are 'scroungers'... 

You know who you are...
		
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You are wrong when you state "all claimants"  Even though it has been explained that some are genuine and need support you have decided to ignore that bit.    I will turn your comment around then: Even though they'll go into denial, the majority that support the welfare state believe all claimants are not 'scroungers'...


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## Three (Apr 3, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Unfortunately, even though they'll go into denial, the majority that moan/complain about the welfare state believe all claimants are 'scroungers'... 

You know who you are...
		
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After living in many different countries all over the world, I believe that the ease with which people can claim free money in the UK encourages too many people to do so when they could actually go out and earn it instead.


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## MegaSteve (Apr 3, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			You are wrong when you state "all claimants"  Even though it has been explained that some are genuine and need support you have decided to ignore that bit.    I will turn your comment around then: Even though they'll go into denial, the majority that support the welfare state believe all claimants are not 'scroungers'...
		
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I know which group I'd rather be in...  

And, why did you feel the need to go into denial?


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## MegaSteve (Apr 3, 2017)

Three said:



			After living in many different countries all over the world, I believe that the ease with which people can claim free money in the UK encourages too many people to do so when they could actually go out and earn it instead.
		
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So, you wish to see the re-invention of work houses?


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## Hobbit (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What agenda might that be - caring for the less well off of our society - if that's my agenda then I'm happy to go with it. I have stated what I think on this.   Meanwhile - what's your thinking on the wealthy getting tax cuts at the same time as benefits are being cut when food and energy prices are going up?
		
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If you care so much why don't you put the extra Â£50 a week into a charity of your choice? How much responsibility do you take for our society, or do you a abdicate that responsibility to the state then decry the state when it tries to balance the books and at the same time do the best it feels it can?

There's the socialist stance of taking money from people, pretty much everyone, surely you can remember the dark days of 33% income tax, and there's the Conservative stance of give money to as many as possible and let them take responsibility for society. 

Do I agree with the wealthy getting tax cuts? The more money anyone has the more money they spend. And if its saved in stocks and shares its still feeding the economy. As for energy prices going up; surely you don't blame a political party for price rises? Next you be blaming the govt for putting the price of bread up, and for cereal price increases.

Do I have a social conscience? Serving at a soup kitchen on Christmas Day, and there's a CV that runs pages long. Put your Â£50 to good use, a choice this govt is giving you. Lets see how selfish you are...


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## Three (Apr 3, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			So, you wish to see the re-invention of work houses?
		
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What, you mean people who can actually work have to do so instead of getting money for free when they're sitting on their backsides? 
Ooohhh, terrible idea.....


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## Smiffy (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What is difficult to understand...quoting from my OP_._

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This.... (also quoted from your OP).......

*"And so this week tax and benefits cuts kick in.
I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.*
*The additional Â£50/week we get will make no difference to our standard of living"
*
Bit confusing.


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## jusme (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			My sister's husband went through a PIP assessment and as a result of that they have seen the reduction fropm about Â£150/week to about Â£100/week
		
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Thanks for the clarification. Given that their are real cuts and changes to tax and benefits that will affect some I was confused as their are no actual cuts to PIP/DLA or carers allowance. Your families reduction is not part of the cuts, but are receiving less money as part of a reassessment of 'ability/needs'. This is very different from actual benefit cuts (such as new claims for ESA) through policy change. Your original post was misleading (perhaps unintentional) as it suggested their reduction in benefit was through part of the cuts program. 

That being said I am not of the mindset of some here. Whilst I recognise there are fraudsters on benefits and this must be addressed, there are those in genuine need of support and assistance through illness/disability. Sadly those genuine claimants do get caught up in the net that is being cast to catch those fraudsters. I support and assist those genuine claimants.


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## bobmac (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			What is difficult to understand.._._

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From your OP.........



SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so this week tax and benefits cuts kick in.

I calculate that me and my Mrs - both in full time employment with good salaries - will be about Â£50 a month better off.

I calculate that my sister and her husband - he is disabled on PIP and she is his carer on carer allowance - will be about Â£50 a *week* WORSE off.

The *additional*Â£50/week we get will make no difference to our standard of living
		
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Now, it's either a typing error or you have so much money you don't know what you get.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 3, 2017)

Three said:



			After living in many different countries all over the world, I believe that the ease with which people can claim free money in the UK encourages too many people to do so when they could actually go out and earn it instead.
		
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You can't claim free money and it's not easy, have you personally experienced the benefit system in the UK or is it based on the media and what your mate told you.


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## HowlingGale (Apr 3, 2017)

Can we have clarification as to where you both live? If you live in England and they live in Scotland then that makes a huge difference. Remember people in Scotland are now paying more tax than those in England, due to devolved tax raising powers. 

As for benefits I'm sure that's still overseen by Westminster so everyone in Britain will be in the same boat. 

If they do live in Scotland they'll also get free prescriptions etc. So for someone who's disabled this will make a big difference.


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## Crazyface (Apr 3, 2017)

PhilTheFragger said:



			No we dont

Nobody knows
even the people involved in the Brexit Negotiations dont know doodly squat yet

I do however agree that there should be a proper safety net in place for those that do need state assistance and that in certain cases it is the most vulnerable in society who are coming off worst, the assessment process is arbitrary and is subjective and needs looking at.

One of the reasons benefits have been hit is to entice those families for whom benefits has been a way of life for generations, off benefits and into work. this is working, *but it is a balancing act and they havnt got it right ye*t
		
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I would suggest that it is an impossible thing to achieve. You hit one idle person and you hurt another deserving case. Those benefit cheats are the worst and make my blood boil.


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## Crazyface (Apr 3, 2017)

HowlingGale said:



			Can we have clarification as to where you both live? If you live in England and they live in Scotland then that makes a huge difference. Remember people in Scotland are now paying more tax than those in England, due to devolved tax raising powers. 

As for benefits I'm sure that's still overseen by Westminster so everyone in Britain will be in the same boat. 

*If they do live in Scotland they'll also get free prescriptions* etc. So for someone who's disabled this will make a big difference.
		
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This is discrimination.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			This is difficult to understand.  You posted:

"The *additional Â£50/week we get* will make no difference to our standard of living"
		
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Sorry - I meant the additional Â£50/month we get...will make no difference.  My sister and her hubby are losing Â£50/week - that being a third of their total income for food, clothing and bills.  That loss of Â£50/week will make a HUGE difference to their already very frugal and limited lifestyle.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

Hobbit said:



*If you care so much why don't you put the extra Â£50 a week into a charity of your choice?* How much responsibility do you take for our society, or do you a abdicate that responsibility to the state then decry the state when it tries to balance the books and at the same time do the best it feels it can?

There's the socialist stance of taking money from people, pretty much everyone, surely you can remember the dark days of 33% income tax, and there's the Conservative stance of give money to as many as possible and let them take responsibility for society. 

Do I agree with the wealthy getting tax cuts? The more money anyone has the more money they spend. And if its saved in stocks and shares its still feeding the economy. As for energy prices going up; surely you don't blame a political party for price rises? Next you be blaming the govt for putting the price of bread up, and for cereal price increases.

Do I have a social conscience? Serving at a soup kitchen on Christmas Day, and there's a CV that runs pages long. Put your Â£50 to good use, a choice this govt is giving you. Lets see how selfish you are...
		
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*I am* - and my mistake after my OP - it was Â£50/month


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			Exactly.   You can understand the pull factor of Eastern EU and Asian people wanting to live in the UK and why we are spending so much on Welfare and have such a massive national debt.
		
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Exactly - well exactly what I might have expected from you.  Absolutely no understanding of the very difficult circumstances that many who *have* to rely on benefits - not through choice.  

Do you really think Â£100/week for a couple to live on OK when tax is being cut for the higher earners.


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## HowlingGale (Apr 3, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			This is discrimination.
		
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Can you please elaborate? Everyone in Scotland gets free prescriptions as opposed to England. Or at least that used to be the case. 

Not really sure how it can be taken as discrimination, in any way.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

Three said:



			After living in many different countries all over the world, I believe that the ease with which people can claim free money in the UK encourages too many people to do so when they could actually go out and earn it instead.
		
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That may or may not be the case - but my B-i-L cannot do most forms of work - and looking for that which he *could *do when living on the Isle of Arran is a largely fruitless activity.


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## ger147 (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Exactly - well exactly what I might have expected from you.  Absolutely no understanding of the very difficult circumstances that many who *have* to rely on benefits - not through choice.  

Do you really think Â£100/week for a couple to live on OK when tax is being cut for the higher earners.
		
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I keep asking you what these tax cuts are but you still haven't replied?


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## HowlingGale (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Exactly - well exactly what I might have expected from you.  Absolutely no understanding of the very difficult circumstances that many who *have* to rely on benefits - not through choice.  

Do you really think Â£100/week for a couple to live on OK when tax is being cut for the higher earners.
		
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Tax is being increased in Scotland for high earners. Is your family in Scotland and you're in England? If this is true you're making a big deal out of an non-level playing field.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

jusme said:



			Thanks for the clarification. Given that their are real cuts and changes to tax and benefits that will affect some I was confused as their are no actual cuts to PIP/DLA or carers allowance. Your families reduction is not part of the cuts, but are receiving less money as part of a reassessment of 'ability/needs'. This is very different from actual benefit cuts (such as new claims for ESA) through policy change. Your original post was misleading (perhaps unintentional) as it suggested their reduction in benefit was through part of the cuts program. 

That being said I am not of the mindset of some here. Whilst I recognise there are fraudsters on benefits and this must be addressed, there are those in genuine need of support and assistance through illness/disability. Sadly those genuine claimants do get caught up in the net that is being cast to catch those fraudsters. I support and assist those genuine claimants.
		
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Thankyou - were there more of your mindset - but unfortunately we are turning into a pretty selfish as well as entitled society - and I'll agree that the feeling of entitlement extends corrosively into that section entitled to and claiming benefits.  Though I'll note that not all who are entitled to benefits - even among the young - do not claim them.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

HowlingGale said:



			Can we have clarification as to where you both live? If you live in England and they live in Scotland then that makes a huge difference. Remember people in Scotland are now paying more tax than those in England, due to devolved tax raising powers. 

As for benefits I'm sure that's still overseen by Westminster so everyone in Britain will be in the same boat. 

If they do live in Scotland they'll also get free prescriptions etc. So for someone who's disabled this will make a big difference.
		
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My sister and B-i-L live in Scotland.  They may well cope slightly better due to free prescriptions - but I suggest that theier equivalent couple in England will also get prescriptions free.  Medication doesn't put food in your stomach or shoes on your feet.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

Crazyface said:



			This is discrimination.
		
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Yes - it's a problem when 90.6% of prescriptions in England are provided free of charge - when the Scottish government decided that the cost of administering a payment scheme would cost more than it would raise.


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## HowlingGale (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			My sister and B-i-L live in Scotland.  They may well cope slightly better due to free prescriptions - but I suggest that theier equivalent couple in England will also get prescriptions free.  Medication doesn't put food in your stomach or shoes on your feet.
		
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Where I feel for your sister and B-i-L the higher earners on Scotland are facing more tax than those in England due to the threshold not moving in Scotland.

If you lived up here you wouldn't have a tax cut. So does the argument that they're getting less benefit still have as great an impact as you saying they're getting a benefit cut AND you're getting a tax cut? I dont think so. Yes it's bad that they have to live on less but benefits are unsustainable.

Perhaps when they get the real job-dodgers back to work they'll increase benefits to those that need it most in society, like your sister.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

ger147 said:



			I keep asking you what these tax cuts are but you still haven't replied?
		
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Personal allowance increased to Â£11,500 and threshold for 40% tax raised to Â£45,000.  My income tax drops Â£500/annum; my wife's by Â£100/annum.  Total Â£600/annum = Â£50/month

I live in England


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## Hobbit (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Yes - it's a problem when 90.6% of prescriptions in England are provided free of charge - when the Scottish government decided that the cost of administering a payment scheme would cost more than it would raise.
		
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You pretty close to the numbers there Hogie. It costs Scotland almost Â£70 million for free prescriptions when charging would raise about Â£95 million. But that doesn't include the cost of the infrastructure needed if charging was brought in. It may be that it could be piggy backed onto the infrastructure already there...

Its a shame that England doesn't follow suit with free prescriptions, especially as its the only country in the UK charging.


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## ger147 (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Personal allowance increased to Â£11,500 and threshold for 40% tax raised to Â£45,000.  My income tax drops Â£500/annum; my wife's by Â£100/annum.  Total Â£600/annum = Â£50/month

I live in England
		
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No such increase to the 40% threshold in Scotland so nothing for the higher earners up here.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

HowlingGale said:



			Where I feel for your sister and B-i-L the higher earners on Scotland are facing more tax than those in England due to the threshold not moving in Scotland.

If you lived up here you wouldn't have a tax cut. So does the argument that they're getting less benefit still have as great an impact as you saying they're getting a benefit cut AND you're getting a tax cut? I dont think so. Yes it's bad that they have to live on less but benefits are unsustainable.

Perhaps when they get the real job-dodgers back to work they'll increase benefits to those that need it most in society, like your sister.
		
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If it is the case that benefits in England are the same as those in Scotland - then I can make the comparison.  And notwithstanding the perceived amount of 'scrounging', I suggest that it is not OK to expect a couple in England in the same circumstances as my sister - to move from Â£150/week to Â£100/week with little or no warning - and then for them to live and pay all bills on an 'income' of Â£14 a day -  when higher earners in E&W are receiving a tax cut.


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## HowlingGale (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If it is the case that benefits in England are the same as those in Scotland - then I can make the comparison.  And notwithstanding the perceived amount of 'scrounging', I suggest that it is not OK to expect a couple in England in the same circumstances as my sister - to move from Â£150/week to Â£100/week with little or no warning - and then for them to live and pay all bills on an 'income' of Â£14 a day -  when higher earners in E&W are receiving a tax cut.
		
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Not saying it's right but the unsustainable benefits are being cut right across the board. Like I said in a previous post. Hopefully we get the ones who can work back to work, freeing up more for those that need it. FWIW I know of people who are surviving on less. It must be a horrible situation not being able to work rather than choosing not to.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

Since I was asked - here is a link to where my Â£50/month will be going.  Feel free 

http://pilgrimproject.org.uk/


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

HowlingGale said:



			Not saying it's right but the unsustainable benefits are being cut right across the board. Like I said in a previous post. Hopefully we get the ones who can work back to work, freeing up more for those that need it. FWIW I know of people who are surviving on less. It must be a horrible situation not being able to work rather than choosing not to.
		
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Horrible indeed - and largely either ignored or dismissed by many who are not in that situation or do not understand it.  My point is not the benefits system - but the fact that my disabled B-i-L has been reassessed under PIP and he and my sister a losing one third of their benefits at the same time as the wealthy are getting tax cuts.  

How about choosing to *increase *the PIP and Carers allowances, instead of giving it to the wealthy in tax cuts.  So that the outcome of his PIP assessment would have minimal financial impact on my B-i-L.


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## Hobbit (Apr 3, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Since I was asked - here is a link to where my Â£50/month will be going.  Feel free 

http://pilgrimproject.org.uk/

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Good on you Hogie, but you say will be going. So what are you doing now? What social responsibility do you exercise now, apart from being our moral compass.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 3, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Good on you Hogie, but you say will be going. So what are you doing now? What social responsibility do you exercise now, apart from being our moral compass.
		
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As you have asked - I am an elder in my church - and contribute muchly to the church coffers in addition to providing pastoral support to church members and their family as and when required.  I also volunteer in an addiction support charity.


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 3, 2017)

pip and carers have been increased not cut .in your family case they may have been cut ,but as you say they were reassessed so now their option is to appeal the cut ,if they are unlucky to not win then im sure their housing benefit and council tax will all be paid for them ,
and i should know as i am in exactly the same position as your scotish family ,in that i get pip my wife gets carers for me and i get a paltry 
373.10 per week jsa which was exactly the same amount i got on esa..
 fortunately for me i am in the throes of getting a hackney cab licence and will be earning again once all the i`s have been dotted and the t`s crossed. 
it hasnt been easy living on next to bugger all and if it wasnt for a certain person on this site christmas would have been a total disaster,but thats another story to be held between myself and my good samaritan as im sure he wouldnt want to be named . 
 its tough out there in benefit land and i was signed off work for nigh on 17 months ,only signed fit for work in january this year ,it has taken me a couple of months to get a job ,but as above its yet to be finalised . carrying an injury which stopped me from back to my original job was a big kick in the nuts and you can bet that many more people have suffered the same fate as myself ,probably a lot worse..
 people will always moan about the benefit system and those that are able to get a holier than thou attitude should look at individual cases and not lump everyone in the same bracket ,tarred with the same brush . 
 unfortunately the changes are going to affect a lot of people in a lot of different ways ,now to my mind if you dont like it then do something about it ,no other bugger will do it for you thats for sure.


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## jusme (Apr 3, 2017)

As stated earlier , I support and assist disabled and sick people with benefits and in other ways of course (my job) so I don't want to come across as giving the OP a hard time, but honesty in discussions such as this is important. No couple who are in receipt of DLA and carers allowance are living on ONLY these two benefits. If one or more can't work through illness/disability then they have to be on ESA and the carer possibly also on the same or JSA, or are at least entitled to same but choose not to claim for a complex reason or 2. Sorry OP - genuine in my expression of not wanting to add to your woes/stress/annoyance but now we cleared up where the reduction has come from, time for further clarification.


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## Raesy92 (Apr 3, 2017)

Reading this thread briefly there is lots of talk of scroungers and people claiming benefits because they are lazy etc. A major part of the problem is that many single parents (probably not just single) with young kids are better off claiming benefits than actually getting themselves a part time/full time job. 

Many of these parents want to work, but in doing so they would be making themselves worse off due to child-care commitments and so on. This is a fault of the current system and it is unfair to label these people as scroungers or lazy, they just want the best for their children. The problem continues when their kids are then old enough to go to school, yet they have become used to this way of life which is then hard to break.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 3, 2017)

Raesy92 said:



			Reading this thread briefly there is lots of talk of scroungers and people claiming benefits because they are lazy etc. A major part of the problem is that many single parents (probably not just single) with young kids are better off claiming benefits than actually getting themselves a part time/full time job. 

Many of these parents want to work, but in doing so they would be making themselves worse off due to child-care commitments and so on. This is a fault of the current system and it is unfair to label these people as scroungers or lazy, they just want the best for their children. The problem continues when their kids are then old enough to go to school, yet they have become used to this way of life which is then hard to break.
		
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Maybe we could get one thing straight.  I don't believe anyone has suggested there are not people on benefits who are genuine and deserve them.  I keep reading posts where the same line is rolled out that it's unfair to call all claimants scroungers, so lets all agree thats not the case.

I dont like the way some people continue to claim benefits because they would not be better off in work, thats a horrible attitude.   If someone is capable of working full time, even if they are earning the same as similar as benefits then they should work and benefits should not be available.   The job of the unemployment agencies should be to asses what type and level of work someone could do and then help find them a job.   Rotting away on benefits is a social cancer.


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## Raesy92 (Apr 3, 2017)

SocketRocket said:



			Maybe we could get one thing straight.  I don't believe anyone has suggested there are not people on benefits who are genuine and deserve them.  I keep reading posts where the same line is rolled out that it's unfair to call all claimants scroungers, so lets all agree thats not the case.

I dont like the way some people continue to claim benefits because they would not be better off in work, thats a horrible attitude.   If someone is capable of working full time, even if they are earning the same as similar as benefits then they should work and benefits should not be available.   The job of the unemployment agencies should be to asses what type and level of work someone could do and then help find them a job.   Rotting away on benefits is a social cancer.
		
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Firstly my post wasn't aimed directly at you, but I have seen many comments running that kind of theme. 

Secondly, around 1% of welfare benefits is spent on unemployment benefits. It's a tiny proportion of government spending yet everyone seems to take most exception to this. Of this 1% an even smaller percentage will be people claiming the benefit and not even looking/wanting to work. Of course these people will be receiving other benefits such as housing and child support but the reality is that there are much larger issues at hand. One mainly being tax evasion from the richest in society, yet we chastise the poorest.

Maybe somewhat surprisingly, unclaimed benefits are higher than that of benefit fraud. While there are obviously those that milk the benefit systems, it is probably a much smaller percentage that what you actually think.


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## ger147 (Apr 3, 2017)

Norrin Radd said:



			pip and carers have been increased not cut .in your family case they may have been cut ,but as you say they were reassessed so now their option is to appeal the cut ,if they are unlucky to not win then im sure their housing benefit and council tax will all be paid for them ,
and i should know as i am in exactly the same position as your scotish family ,in that i get pip my wife gets carers for me and i get a paltry 
373.10 per week jsa which was exactly the same amount i got on esa..
 fortunately for me i am in the throes of getting a hackney cab licence and will be earning again once all the i`s have been dotted and the t`s crossed. 
it hasnt been easy living on next to bugger all and if it wasnt for a certain person on this site christmas would have been a total disaster,but thats another story to be held between myself and my good samaritan as im sure he wouldnt want to be named . 
 its tough out there in benefit land and i was signed off work for nigh on 17 months ,only signed fit for work in january this year ,it has taken me a couple of months to get a job ,but as above its yet to be finalised . carrying an injury which stopped me from back to my original job was a big kick in the nuts and you can bet that many more people have suffered the same fate as myself ,probably a lot worse..
 people will always moan about the benefit system and those that are able to get a holier than thou attitude should look at individual cases and not lump everyone in the same bracket ,tarred with the same brush . 
 unfortunately the changes are going to affect a lot of people in a lot of different ways ,now to my mind if you dont like it then do something about it ,no other bugger will do it for you thats for sure.
		
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Bit of a bummer that you can't go back to your old job but good news that you're able to get back out there and earning.  I hope the hackney works out for you.


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 4, 2017)

ger147 said:



			Bit of a bummer that you can't go back to your old job but good news that you're able to get back out there and earning.  I hope the hackney works out for you.
		
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.
thanks Gerry ,I have got my driving test for the licence this coming Friday,and the knowledge test is the following Tuesday, its then onto the medical on the Thursday ,if all are passed [fingers crossed] then its just waiting on the DBS check to clear and the actual issue of the licence itself.
 .
im hoping to be driving and earning by the beginning of May.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 4, 2017)

Norrin Radd said:



			pip and carers have been increased not cut .in your family case they may have been cut ,but as you say they were reassessed so now their option is to appeal the cut ,if they are unlucky to not win then im sure their housing benefit and council tax will all be paid for them ,
and i should know as i am in exactly the same position as your scotish family ,in that i get pip my wife gets carers for me and i get a paltry 
373.10 per week jsa which was exactly the same amount i got on esa..
 fortunately for me i am in the throes of getting a hackney cab licence and will be earning again once all the i`s have been dotted and the t`s crossed. 
it hasnt been easy living on next to bugger all and if it wasnt for a certain person on this site christmas would have been a total disaster,but thats another story to be held between myself and my good samaritan as im sure he wouldnt want to be named . 
 its tough out there in benefit land and i was signed off work for nigh on 17 months ,only signed fit for work in january this year ,it has taken me a couple of months to get a job ,but as above its yet to be finalised . carrying an injury which stopped me from back to my original job was a big kick in the nuts and you can bet that many more people have suffered the same fate as myself ,probably a lot worse..
 people will always moan about the benefit system and those that are able to get a holier than thou attitude should look at individual cases and not lump everyone in the same bracket ,tarred with the same brush . 
 unfortunately the changes are going to affect a lot of people in a lot of different ways ,now to my mind if you dont like it then do something about it ,no other bugger will do it for you thats for sure.
		
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Hope everything works out for you with the Cabbie job.
I thankfully (fingers crossed) haven't experienced anything like you've been and are going through, I only know from the RBL casework how little income some families have coming in and how they manage is beyond me.
Good luck and best wishes for the future.


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## Doon frae Troon (Apr 4, 2017)

Raesy92 said:



			Firstly my post wasn't aimed directly at you, but I have seen many comments running that kind of theme. 

Secondly, around 1% of welfare benefits is spent on unemployment benefits. It's a tiny proportion of government spending yet everyone seems to take most exception to this. Of this 1% an even smaller percentage will be people claiming the benefit and not even looking/wanting to work. Of course these people will be receiving other benefits such as housing and child support but the reality is that there are much larger issues at hand. One mainly being tax evasion from the richest in society, yet we chastise the poorest.

Maybe somewhat surprisingly, unclaimed benefits are higher than that of benefit fraud. While there are obviously those that milk the benefit systems, it is probably a much smaller percentage that what you actually think.
		
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Brilliant post.
I used to work as a local government officer and the number of myths that float around about benefits are truly unbelievable.

My wife worked for a while as payroll manager for a large company and the number of false claims by sales/management she knocked back was also 'unbelievable'.

Good luck next week job wise and good wishes to you and your family


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 4, 2017)

jusme said:



			As stated earlier , I support and assist disabled and sick people with benefits and in other ways of course (my job) so I don't want to come across as giving the OP a hard time, but honesty in discussions such as this is important. No couple who are in receipt of DLA and carers allowance are living on ONLY these two benefits. If one or more can't work through illness/disability then they have to be on ESA and the carer possibly also on the same or JSA, or are at least entitled to same but choose not to claim for a complex reason or 2. Sorry OP - genuine in my expression of not wanting to add to your woes/stress/annoyance but now we cleared up where the reduction has come from, time for further clarification.
		
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Quite the contrary @jusme - this is very useful information - as for personal and family reasons I need to understand my sister's financial situation.  If she is not being open and honest with me about what they receive, then I have to get to the bottom of it and understand why I am not getting the full story.  

BTW - what's the difference between ESA and JSA?  I may have some questions to ask my sister...

Many thanks for your help.


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## jusme (Apr 4, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Quite the contrary @jusme - this is very useful information - as for personal and family reasons I need to understand my sister's financial situation.  If she is not being open and honest with me about what they receive, then I have to get to the bottom of it and understand why I am not getting the full story.  

BTW - what's the difference between ESA and JSA?  I may have some questions to ask my sister...

Many thanks for your help.
		
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Your welcome. DLA is a disability benefit paid to anyone regardless of income. Carers allowance is as stated. Neither are base benefits and assuming both are out of work both are likely entitled and I am sure receiving other base benefits. I say likely as there are exceptions but these are very very rare and almost everyone on DLA would be on ESA. The carer if ill also is likely to be on ESA and if not ill then income support or JSA. 

JSA - job seekers allowance is for those that are actively seeking work or fit for work. You may know it as 'dole' 
ESA - replaced the old incapacity benefit and is for those who are sick/ill and are unable to work for anything ranging from months to for ever. It covers everything from short term illnesses to permanent and unchanging conditions. It's a more complex benefit than the old incapacity. 

EVERYONE who is not working (assuming they are claiming welfare) is on a base benefit - including both your sister and BIL. DLA and carers allowance are not base benefits. They are supplementary to base. Ask away if unclear or further questions arise. Best of luck.


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## Old Skier (Apr 4, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Quite the contrary @jusme - this is very useful information - as for personal and family reasons I need to understand my sister's financial situation.  If she is not being open and honest with me about what they receive, then I have to get to the bottom of it and understand why I am not getting the full story.  

BTW - what's the difference between ESA and JSA?  I may have some questions to ask my sister...

Many thanks for your help.
		
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YoU may find this helpful http://www.entitledto.co.uk/benefits-calculator/startcalc.aspx


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## Norrin Radd (Apr 4, 2017)

oops just noticed the figure i put in for JSA that i get ,its not 373.10 per week ,its Â£73.10p per week ,looks like i forgot the shift button .sorry .


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 5, 2017)

jusme said:



			Your welcome. DLA is a disability benefit paid to anyone regardless of income. Carers allowance is as stated. Neither are base benefits and assuming both are out of work both are likely entitled and I am sure receiving other base benefits. I say likely as there are exceptions but these are very very rare and almost everyone on DLA would be on ESA. The carer if ill also is likely to be on ESA and if not ill then income support or JSA. 

JSA - job seekers allowance is for those that are actively seeking work or fit for work. You may know it as 'dole' 
ESA - replaced the old incapacity benefit and is for those who are sick/ill and are unable to work for anything ranging from months to for ever. It covers everything from short term illnesses to permanent and unchanging conditions. It's a more complex benefit than the old incapacity. 

EVERYONE who is not working (assuming they are claiming welfare) is on a base benefit - including both your sister and BIL. DLA and carers allowance are not base benefits. They are supplementary to base. Ask away if unclear or further questions arise. Best of luck.
		
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Many thanks - is DLA the same as PIP?

Also my understanding is that neither DLA/PIP or Carers Allowance are means-tested.   As it happens neither are in work - and my sister (the carer) is not ill and neither are actively seeking employment.  By not actively seeking work does that mean they would not get any of the base benefits?


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## jusme (Apr 5, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Many thanks - is DLA the same as PIP?

Also my understanding is that neither DLA/PIP or Carers Allowance are means-tested.   As it happens neither are in work - and my sister (the carer) is not ill and neither are actively seeking employment.  By not actively seeking work does that mean they would not get any of the base benefits?
		
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Yes. PIP is replacing DLA overtime. New claimants will be applying for PIP. Old claimants will be moved over from DLA to PIP in stages. Correct as in none means tested. Only JSA requires you to be actively seeking work - and many on JSA are 'pretending' they are actively seeking work to fulfill the conditions placed on them. The person getting DLA will almost certainly be getting ESA - not fit for work if claiming ESA. Not wanting work or seeking work is not the same as the goverment's view of 'actively fit for work. The carer as not ill and if under pension age should be getting JSA or if she states is unable to work as a result of caring duties is therefore eligible for or receiving income support. Universal credit is rolling out also and for new claimants it replaces all base benefits. Like PIP it will roll out to everyone in stages. 

Long and short of it - no matter what they say, they ARE NOT getting only DLA and carers allowance. In my 30 years in social welfare work I have yet to see this happen, or I should say entitled to. Choosing to decline what they are entitled to, for some odd reason??


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 5, 2017)

jusme said:



			Yes. PIP is replacing DLA overtime. New claimants will be applying for PIP. Old claimants will be moved over from DLA to PIP in stages. Correct as in none means tested. Only JSA requires you to be actively seeking work - and many on JSA are 'pretending' they are actively seeking work to fulfill the conditions placed on them. The person getting DLA will almost certainly be getting ESA - not fit for work if claiming ESA. Not wanting work or seeking work is not the same as the goverment's view of 'actively fit for work. The carer as not ill and if under pension age should be getting JSA or if she states is unable to work as a result of caring duties is therefore eligible for or receiving income support. Universal credit is rolling out also and for new claimants it replaces all base benefits. Like PIP it will roll out to everyone in stages. 

Long and short of it - no matter what they say, they ARE NOT getting only DLA and carers allowance. In my 30 years in social welfare work I have yet to see this happen, or I should say entitled to. Choosing to decline what they are entitled to, for some odd reason??
		
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Many thanks again.  So even if neither are seeking employment (for whatever reason - let's not go there) my sister's claim that they are getting - in total - under Â£100 a week between them is frankly - tosh!  Separately they get their housing association house (tiny) rent paid in full, and the majority of their council tax.  Methinks (yet another) conversation with my sis is - imminent :angry:

Doesn't change my view that cutting income tax is wrong at a time of austerity; when food and power costs are escalating; and when benefits are being cut (in general)


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## jusme (Apr 5, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Many thanks again.  So even if neither are seeking employment (for whatever reason - let's not go there) my sister's claim that they are getting - in total - under Â£100 a week between them is frankly - tosh!  Separately they get their housing association house (tiny) rent paid in full, and the majority of their council tax.  Methinks (yet another) conversation with my sis is - imminent :angry:

Doesn't change my view that cutting income tax is wrong at a time of austerity; when food and power costs are escalating; and when benefits are being cut (in general)
		
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I entirely agree with your policy statement in your last sentence, and, sorry to say yes, your families statement is complete tosh, as you put it. You have given me the final piece in the jigsaw. The fact they now get housing benefit and council tax benefit moves me from 99.9% certainty (the 0.1 is there for exceptional circumstances) to 100% that they are getting either ESA (most likely) and her possibly IS or JSA. If they are relatively new claimants then universal credit is also possible. It doesn't matter which, I assure you they are getting one or more of the aforementioned. The reason for certainty now is that neither DLA or CA alone are qualifying benefits for housing benefit or council tax benefit. You MUST be on a qualifying benefit (IS, ESA, JSA etc) to receive housing benefit and/or council tax benefit. There you go that simple. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but as stated at the start, NO COUPLE are living on Â£100 per week. That is simply a lie. They are omitting income if you have asked - that you can now be CERTAIN of.


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## Old Skier (Apr 5, 2017)

There may be some kind of pension payment involved as this could affect the benefit I believe.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 5, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			There may be some kind of pension payment involved as this could affect the benefit I believe.
		
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Nothing of that sort...but good suggestion.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 5, 2017)

jusme said:



			I entirely agree with your policy statement in your last sentence, and, sorry to say yes, your families statement is complete tosh, as you put it. You have given me the final piece in the jigsaw. The fact they now get housing benefit and council tax benefit moves me from 99.9% certainty (the 0.1 is there for exceptional circumstances) to 100% that they are getting either ESA (most likely) and her possibly IS or JSA. If they are relatively new claimants then universal credit is also possible. It doesn't matter which, I assure you they are getting one or more of the aforementioned. The reason for certainty now is that neither DLA or CA alone are qualifying benefits for housing benefit or council tax benefit. You MUST be on a qualifying benefit (IS, ESA, JSA etc) to receive housing benefit and/or council tax benefit. There you go that simple. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but as stated at the start, NO COUPLE are living on Â£100 per week. That is simply a lie. They are omitting income if you have asked - that you can now be CERTAIN of.
		
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As it happens that's not bad news.  It tells me that her manipulative and controlling husband is keeping most of the benefits they get, and giving her a pittance to live on.  And because of who and how he is, my sister feels she has to spin the tale to cover for her lack of money.


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## jusme (Apr 6, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			As it happens that's not bad news.  It tells me that her manipulative and controlling husband is keeping most of the benefits they get, and giving her a pittance to live on.  And because of who and how he is, my sister feels she has to spin the tale to cover for her lack of money.
		
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Well best of luck, I can imagine that's not easy to deal with. I've supported and assisted vulnerable people for almost 30 years in my own profession. I have a good idea as to the type of situation your sister is in. My best wishes


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## Hobbit (Apr 6, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			As it happens that's not bad news.  It tells me that her manipulative and controlling husband is keeping most of the benefits they get, and giving her a pittance to live on.  And because of who and how he is, my sister feels she has to spin the tale to cover for her lack of money.
		
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Facts or assumptions Hogie?

And if he is disabled, what sort of wild life is he funding...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 6, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Facts or assumptions Hogie?

And if he is disabled, what sort of wild life is he funding...
		
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They basically do not go out - at all - other than my sis going to the shops for food - and booze and fags for him.  He is simply stashing the majority of what they get away in his own bank account.  Put it this way.  The benefits payments go into a joint account.  He withdraws it all and puts it into his own personal account.  I set up a personal account for my sister so her benefits could go into that,  he demanded the on-line password and access to it - and so that was the end of that.  And I know my sister gets diddly-squat to live on.  When my mother was with us my sister would go out to Glasgow without even the return fare.  My mother would buy clothes, inc basics such as underwear - and other little nice girlie things for her - and give her the fare back.

Many might feel inclined to call my sister a benefits scrounger - with her not even trying to get even a little job - she has a totally rubbish life - and that is not obvious to anyone but her immediate family.

She could leave him?  She has nowhere to go.


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## Crazyface (Apr 6, 2017)

YES she should.


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## Crazyface (Apr 6, 2017)

That benefits thing last night.... I stopped watching after 5 minutes as I thought the neighbors might be getting worried over my ranting at the TV. Â£500 down to Â£380 a week and they can't manage!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's more (a lot more) than I get!!!!! That bludy woman that had 7 kids scattered all over everywhere. Such a shame for the kids, but lets hope they are with people that might just teach them that it is better to work than live off the state as their "mother" would have. Evil witch!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 6, 2017)

And I am afraid many will be complaining like fury that they will not be able to afford their holiday abroad - now that the Supreme Court has ruled against Jon Platt.

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...rm-time-holidays-jon-platt-unauthorised-break

I am afraid, and it is a rather cynical view which I don't like holding, that it is the *parent's *sense of entitlement to a holiday abroad that drives them to take their children out of school during term time.  Because a simple holiday in the UK is just not good enough - though in most cases I suspect that the children wouldn't care.  And if they did - then they need to have their expectations reset - as @SR correctly says - start correcting asap their expectations and feelings of entitlement brought about through 'learned behaviour'.  Sort that 'learned behaviour'.


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## Hobbit (Apr 6, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And I am afraid many will be complaining like fury that they will not be able to afford their holiday abroad - now that the Supreme Court has ruled against Jon Platt.

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...rm-time-holidays-jon-platt-unauthorised-break

I am afraid, and it is a rather cynical view which I don't like holding, that it is the *parent's *sense of entitlement to a holiday abroad that drives them to take their children out of school during term time.  Because a simple holiday in the UK is just not good enough - though in most cases I suspect that the children wouldn't care.  And if they did - then they need to have their expectations reset - as @SR correctly says - start correcting asap their expectations and feelings of entitlement brought about through 'learned behaviour'.  Sort that 'learned behaviour'.
		
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Or is it the holiday companies exploiting parents that drives some parents to take kids out during term time? And what is wrong with having ambitions and aspirations?

At least, post-Brexit, we'll all holiday in the UK.


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## SocketRocket (Apr 6, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And I am afraid many will be complaining like fury that they will not be able to afford their holiday abroad - now that the Supreme Court has ruled against Jon Platt.

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...rm-time-holidays-jon-platt-unauthorised-break

I am afraid, and it is a rather cynical view which I don't like holding, that it is the *parent's *sense of entitlement to a holiday abroad that drives them to take their children out of school during term time.  Because a simple holiday in the UK is just not good enough - though in most cases I suspect that the children wouldn't care.  And if they did - then they need to have their expectations reset - as @SR correctly says - start correcting asap their expectations and feelings of entitlement brought about through 'learned behaviour'.  Sort that 'learned behaviour'.
		
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Maybe we could begin by sorting your 'Learned Behavior'

Lesson One:  
Accept that you will not always get your own way in life and being petulant will not change that.
Accept that democracy is not perfect but is the best system we have available and being petulant will not change that.
Accept that you may think you know better than others how they make decisions but you probably don't and being petulant will not change that.

Here endeth lesson one.    Other lessons to follow soon on a Golf Forum like this.


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## CheltenhamHacker (Apr 6, 2017)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			They basically do not go out - at all - other than my sis going to the shops for food - and booze and fags for him.  He is simply stashing the majority of what they get away in his own bank account.  Put it this way.  The benefits payments go into a joint account.  He withdraws it all and puts it into his own personal account.  I set up a personal account for my sister so her benefits could go into that,  he demanded the on-line password and access to it - and so that was the end of that.  And I know my sister gets diddly-squat to live on.  When my mother was with us my sister would go out to Glasgow without even the return fare.  My mother would buy clothes, inc basics such as underwear - and other little nice girlie things for her - and give her the fare back.

Many might feel inclined to call my sister a benefits scrounger - with her not even trying to get even a little job - she has a totally rubbish life - and that is not obvious to anyone but her immediate family.

She could leave him?  She has nowhere to go.
		
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Hang on SILH.

I'm not going to disagree with any of this but can you see how swiftly you've changed your argument? Is there any risk that you're potentially jumping from one extreme point of view to another, without considering the facts? You need to slow down your decision making. A minute ago the tory gov was at fault, now it's your sisters husband.


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## Old Skier (Apr 7, 2017)

Is a golf forum really the place to identify and talk about someone's financial and marital problems?


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## Hobbit (Apr 7, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Is a golf forum really the place to identify and talk about someone's financial and marital problems?
		
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Lend us a tenner... I want to take the girlfriend out whilst the wife is away


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Lend us a tenner... I want to take the girlfriend out whilst the wife is away
		
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I can't believe you've only given her 20 quid for the weekend 
She's arrived safe and well


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## Hobbit (Apr 7, 2017)

pauldj42 said:



			I can't believe you've only given her 20 quid for the weekend 
She's arrived safe and well 

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Whatever you do, don't let her cook for you! Although she can do a fabulous boiled toast


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## Deleted member 16999 (Apr 7, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Whatever you do, don't let her cook for you! Although she can do a fabulous boiled toast
		
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No choice, the Â£20.00 isn't enough to take me out, off to Aldi's instead of Waitrose


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## Old Skier (Apr 7, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			Lend us a tenner... I want to take the girlfriend out whilst the wife is away
		
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That's cheap. Twos up.


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## Hobbit (Apr 7, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			That's cheap. Twos up.
		
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I can't afford any more, I've had my benefits taken off me for playing football without my crutch!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 7, 2017)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			Hang on SILH.

I'm not going to disagree with any of this but can you see how swiftly you've changed your argument? Is there any risk that you're potentially jumping from one extreme point of view to another, without considering the facts? You need to slow down your decision making. A minute ago the tory gov was at fault, now it's your sisters husband.
		
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I only go by the facts I have presented to me.  And from advice that I have received I may not have got the whole story -0 though I believe the cut from Â£150 to Â£100.  It was what was - by the sounds of it - not mentioned that irks.  

Notwithstanding my sister's experiences, I still think it not right that we are seeing benefits cuts at the same time as tax cuts for the wealthy


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Apr 7, 2017)

Old Skier said:



			Is a golf forum really the place to identify and talk about someone's financial and marital problems?
		
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My sis doesn't have access to the internet - not allowed.

But I've said enough on this matter,


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