# World Handicap System - submitting own scores



## Monkers25 (Feb 4, 2020)

Hi everyone.
Having retired, I now have the chance to play golf in both the UK and in Europe, specifically France. I have a question about the new WHS system. Am I able to submit my own scores (via the internet?) to a WHS application that will recalculate my handicap? As a travelling golfer I only go back to my club occasionally and without the ability to add scores, I cannot obtain an updated handicap.
Thanks, Nick


----------



## rulefan (Feb 4, 2020)

Monkers25 said:



			Hi everyone.
Having retired, I now have the chance to play golf in both the UK and in Europe, specifically France. I have a question about the new WHS system. Am I able to submit my own scores (via the internet?) to a WHS application that will recalculate my handicap? As a travelling golfer I only go back to my club occasionally and without the ability to add scores, I cannot obtain an updated handicap.
Thanks, Nick
		
Click to expand...

It is very likely that you will be able but initially it may depend on where you are as opposed to where your home club is.You can only have one 'Home' club.
At WHS start up handicap adjustments will not be forwarded to the WHS system of other national authorities. The player will be obliged to inform their home club. Ultimately it will all be linked.


----------



## Monkers25 (Feb 4, 2020)

rulefan said:



			It is very likely that you will be able but initially it may depend on where you are as opposed to where your home club is.You can only have one 'Home' club.
At WHS start up handicap adjustments will not be forwarded to the WHS system of other national authorities. The player will be obliged to inform their home club. Ultimately it will all be linked.
		
Click to expand...

Thanks. Sounds like further work is required by the various associations to meet their objective of a single, global system


----------



## rulefan (Feb 4, 2020)

It seems to be up and running pretty well in the US after a few teething problems, mainly due to clubs not having done the preparatory work.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 5, 2020)

How would these scores be checked to ensure they were input correctly and where signed for? Or will that, at least at some point, not be a concern?


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 5, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			How would these scores be checked to ensure they were input correctly and where signed for? Or will that, at least at some point, not be a concern?
		
Click to expand...

Picture taken and sent to home club possibly ?


----------



## nickjdavis (Feb 6, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			How would these scores be checked to ensure they were input correctly and where signed for? Or will that, at least at some point, not be a concern?
		
Click to expand...

I asked this exact question at a recent county presentation on the WHS.

The answer that came back was effectively, that the system will rely entirely on the integrity of the player and his marker and that the marker should stand and watch the player enter his scores into whatever app/input method was being used.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 6, 2020)

nickjdavis said:



			I asked this exact question at a recent county presentation on the WHS.

The answer that came back was effectively, that the system will rely entirely on the integrity of the player and his marker and that the marker should stand and watch the player enter his scores into whatever app/input method was being used.
		
Click to expand...

O dear.

Every year, we have to edit players scores when they have made honest mistakes in inputting it into the terminal. Sometimes by just a shot or 2, but other times they end up getting 70-80 stableford points, because they entered their stableford point score for each hole rather than their gross score. And it's not as if they've been on their own, they'll usually have had the guys in their group standing around them while they do it.

Even though I trust the integrity of golfers (well, the vast majority), this does worry me.

Thanks for the info though, it was probably a question I was going to raise myself in a couple of weeks.


----------



## SteveJay (Feb 6, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			O dear.

Every year, we have to edit players scores when they have made honest mistakes in inputting it into the terminal. Sometimes by just a shot or 2, but other times they end up getting 70-80 stableford points, because they entered their stableford point score for each hole rather than their gross score. And it's not as if they've been on their own, they'll usually have had the guys in their group standing around them while they do it.
		
Click to expand...

Guilty as charged m'lud, much to the amusement of everyone in the bar where a tv screen showed a live leaderboard of the day's scores 
Only positive was the the club captain admitted to doing the same a year or so earlier


----------



## rulefan (Feb 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Every year, we have to edit players scores when they have made honest mistakes in inputting it into the terminal. Sometimes by just a shot or 2, but other times they end up getting 70-80 stableford points, because they entered their stableford point score for each hole rather than their gross score. And it's not as if they've been on their own, they'll usually have had the guys in their group standing around them while they do it.
		
Click to expand...

The WHS does not make it mandatory for the player himself to enter scores. The Rules of Golf still require a marked card to be returned. If you club want the hcap sec or anyone else to enter the scores into a psi etc, then they can.
How do you currently 'trap' these faulty scores?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 8, 2020)

rulefan said:



			The WHA does make it mandatory for the player himself to enter scores. The Rules of Golf still require a marked card to be returned. If you club want the hcap sec or anyone else to enter the scores into a psi etc, then they can.
How do you currently 'trap' these faulty scores?
		
Click to expand...

I directly enter all players supplementary cards. In competitions, the players enter on computer, then checked by comp sec before closure


----------



## rulefan (Feb 8, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I directly enter all players supplementary cards. In competitions, the players enter on computer, then checked by comp sec before closure
		
Click to expand...

No reason not to continue the process but there is a correction facility.
Note. Competitions don't have to closed on the day to submit scores and if scores are not submitted on the day it may an effect on the PCC.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 9, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I directly enter all players supplementary cards. In competitions, the players enter on computer, then checked by comp sec before closure
		
Click to expand...

Why don't you allow the player to enter their own supplementary cards out of interest.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 9, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Why don't you allow the player to enter their own supplementary cards out of interest.
		
Click to expand...

They are allowed, but none choose to do so. We don't get many, perhaps a handful every week in summer. To be honest, it is touch and go whether computer is ever on. Sometimes owner has it turned off for reasons unknown, or it is temperamental and locks up. 

However, if they did enter in computer, no problem. After all, I still have to accept them before they are processed and make any changes to players handicap.

My concern with the subject on this post, where players getting into a habit of simply entering their scores in an ap at home, their score effecting the playing condition factor of that day and then me finding out a day or more later it was entered incorrectly. Or, finding lots of golfers forgetting to submit cards entirely.

With supplementary cards I get the biggest issues in finding errors. Things like no date on card, no tees marked, multiple scores in one card but expecting me to process all scores on that card. The reason being, a lot of people handing in supplementary cards don't really have much or any experience in competitions  so have had no real guidance before. Even with a clear poster on Noticeboard at club on how to fill a card in, this is often overlooked or aspects ignored.

If we ever get to a situation where we are encouraging players to enter every score they can, and giving them apps  to do so, it could potentially get very messy for a handicap secretary to sort out what is fine and what isn't. Hopefully that is some way off though


----------



## rulefan (Feb 9, 2020)

It would seem to be a club culture problem.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 9, 2020)

rulefan said:



			It would seem to be a club culture problem.
		
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if it wasn't more common than you think.

Some clubs, well established and maybe expensive, attract more serious golfers. People who are willing to learn the ropes, and will expect they have responsibilities.

Other clubs are run on a much tighter budget, cheap membership and attract golfers of all levels. From serious golfers who play in competitions, to recreational golfer and beginners who are happy just to play with their mates every weekend, but over time may fancy getting themselves a handicap. 

Our club fit into the latter. We have no way of reaching out to every single golfer, nor do most really care. We do try though, sending out general emails from time to time to anyone with an email address, and putting information on Noticeboard. We are also not a members club, so we do rely on the Owner to play ball. He does most of time, but he is not a golfer himself, so sometimes he does things differently to what we may have done if we ran the club. But, overall, the club is successful so kudos to him.

It would be a shame if the golfing authorities made all their decisions based on the assumption all golf clubs are run like the top clubs in each county. They'd be wrong. Maybe WHS will run like clockwork at St Andrew's and Wentworth, but it might pose problems in places for clubs with a "culture problem"


----------



## louise_a (Feb 9, 2020)

I cannot see any way an individual player can enter is own supplementary score in the ClubV1 software. Unless each player can get set up with an user id and there is a way of restricting then to just their record.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 9, 2020)

louise_a said:



			I cannot see any way an individual player can enter is own supplementary score in the ClubV1 software. Unless each player can get set up with an user id and there is a way of restricting then to just their record.
		
Click to expand...

Forget how I did it now but initially went through the help desk. Players were able to enter score via PSI and then had to be accepted by those with the correct rights.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 9, 2020)

Club/Settings/Allow PSI Supplementary Scores


----------



## louise_a (Feb 9, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Club/Settings/Allow PSI Supplementary Scores
		
Click to expand...

I can't see an Allow PSI Supplementary Scores in settings, so I assume I don't have authority to do that.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 9, 2020)

louise_a said:



			I can't see an Allow PSI Supplementary Scores in settings, so I assume I don't have authority to do that.
		
Click to expand...

Sorry, missed a step

Club/Settings/PSI Settings - then scroll down to Allow PSI Sup Scores


----------



## rulefan (Feb 9, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I'd be surprised if it wasn't more common than you think.

Some clubs, well established and maybe expensive, attract more serious golfers. People who are willing to learn the ropes, and will expect they have responsibilities.

Other clubs are run on a much tighter budget, cheap membership and attract golfers of all levels. From serious golfers who play in competitions, to recreational golfer and beginners who are happy just to play with their mates every weekend, but over time may fancy getting themselves a handicap.

Our club fit into the latter. We have no way of reaching out to every single golfer, nor do most really care. We do try though, sending out general emails from time to time to anyone with an email address, and putting information on Noticeboard. We are also not a members club, so we do rely on the Owner to play ball. He does most of time, but he is not a golfer himself, so sometimes he does things differently to what we may have done if we ran the club. But, overall, the club is successful so kudos to him.

It would be a shame if the golfing authorities made all their decisions based on the assumption all golf clubs are run like the top clubs in each county. They'd be wrong. Maybe WHS will run like clockwork at St Andrew's and Wentworth, but it might pose problems in places for clubs with a "culture problem"
		
Click to expand...

As I said, clubs will not be required to have their members enter their own scores. It will be up to the club. I know from experience that the R&A and England Golf have a very good knowledge of the constraints under which many clubs have to operate.


----------



## louise_a (Feb 10, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Sorry, missed a step

Club/Settings/PSI Settings - then scroll down to Allow PSI Sup Scores
		
Click to expand...

Same, I only really have access to the Lady Members, although I can generally see other stuff I cannot update them.


----------



## patricks148 (Feb 11, 2020)

its always amusing when someone enter's stableford points rather than gross score in the Live score screen at Nairn Dunbar, esp when the bar is full


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

Any thoughts on this, was asked by a member today:

Player has a competition on a Sunday, perhaps an Open somewhere, but normal competition at home club would do.

We are now under WHS. They go out on Saturday for a social round. Go home, enter score on app, then handicap goes up.

They then play the sunday comp and finish in the prizes, maybe even win it.

Handicap secretary arrives at club mid week. They see on the system the player entered a score. However, no card has been submitted. So, handicap secretary has to start chasing the player, and eventually finds out that there is no longer a card. Maybe they lost it or threw it out.

What happens? Delete score and just accept they got a prize on Sunday? Or, trust the score and leave it?

Also, if a player entered score on app, or even PSI, I dont suppose they'd even need to register round on Saturday before they went out? I mean, theyd need to under rules, but what could stop them?


----------



## rulefan (Feb 22, 2020)

How would that be dealt with now?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

rulefan said:



			How would that be dealt with now?
		
Click to expand...

The players handicap would not go up for the Sunday, as their score would need to be verified by handicap sec. As far as I am aware, player enters score on PSI, it just sits there until handicap logs onto system and is asked to confirm it.


----------



## mikejohnchapman (Feb 22, 2020)

In all the material I have seen it talks about scores being entered at the course being played at the completion of the round so playing condition calculation can be made overnight.

It also talks about Acceptable Scores from social golf having to follow the process laid down by the club.

Hence in the scenario outlined the score must count unless the local process states the score cannot be entered until the card is checked by the Handicap Committee. This would seem to go against the spirit of the new system. We are definately in the land of personal integrity with WHS!

One question that did occur to me regarding mobile phones is what is to stop someone pre-registering their intention to play from home and then entering a score some hours later without setting foot on the course?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

mikejohnchapman said:



			In all the material I have seen it talks about scores being entered at the course being played at the completion of the round so playing condition calculation can be made overnight.

It also talks about Acceptable Scores from social golf having to follow the process laid down by the club.

Hence in the scenario outlined the score must count unless the local process states the score cannot be entered until the card is checked by the Handicap Committee. This would seem to go against the spirit of the new system. We are definately in the land of personal integrity with WHS!

One question that did occur to me regarding mobile phones is what is to stop someone pre-registering their intention to play from home and then entering a score some hours later without setting foot on the course?
		
Click to expand...

This, in a nut shell, could be the biggest headache potentially.

Currently, a players handicap will only change once:

Competition been officially closed that they entered.
They submit a supplementary card, but this must be verified by handicap secretary before it goes on their record
Review by handicap secretary.

In other words, the handicap secretary, together with those that close competitions, are in complete control of player handicaps.

With WHS players can put in scores whenever they wish. They are being encouraged to submit swindles as well, England Golf have requested. Once score entered, there handicaps WILL change at midnight, with literally no checks by anybody on Committee. This will be made easier with these apps that are mentioned

Once the handicap secretary finally gets to club, they'll be having to check scores entered on system. They'll need to find associated cards, could be dozens if bot hundreds depending how many players are at club and when you were last there. They'll need to chase missing cards. They'll need to correct wrong scores entered. They'll need to, I guess, delete unsigned cards. They'll need to contact all these players to let them know their handicap could have changed. But, before handicap secretary even had chance to check, some of these players could have been playing in comps off wrong handicap.

That is not to mention golfers who do lack integrity. They could just sit at home and enter scores on an app. They could sit at home all week and enter 10 scores if they wanted. Once they are approached for their cards, conveniently they have gone missing. The handicap secretary has a decision to make. Suspend their handicap or take their word.

Honestly, I think this is going to be the greatest issue without question. As handicap secretary I will have no idea what is happening to players handicaps at any given time.


----------



## jim8flog (Feb 22, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			That is not to mention golfers who do lack integrity. They could just sit at home and enter scores on an app. They could sit at home all week and enter 10 scores if they wanted. Once they are approached for their cards, conveniently they have gone missing. The handicap secretary has a decision to make. Suspend their handicap or take their word.

.
		
Click to expand...


Where I play the players  must register at the club for playing a supplementary score by signing a book in the pro shop , the card must be signed by a marker and the card must be submitted before the end of the day.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			Where I play the players  must register at the club for playing a supplementary score by signing a book in the pro shop , the card must be signed by a marker and the card must be submitted before the end of the day.
		
Click to expand...

Yes, and that should happen under WhS

But, as there are no checks before their score goes on record, how can you actually ensure this happens before their handicap changes?


----------



## rulefan (Feb 22, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, and that should happen under WhS

But, as there are no checks before their score goes on record, how can you actually ensure this happens before their handicap changes?
		
Click to expand...

What is the marker for?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

rulefan said:



			What is the marker for?
		
Click to expand...

I think you have missed my point.

If a player enters a score at home, they are not going to have a marker sit with them to watch

If a golfer makes a mistake, their marker isn't going to spot it as they type it in

If they are cheating, they wont have a marker.

If they dont hand in a card, we wont know anyway

Point is, whatever the issue with their score, it has been used to change their handicap. End of.

None of this would be a problem now, as the handicap sec simply would not accept their score


----------



## louise_a (Feb 22, 2020)

Golf is about integrity and honesty and it would not necessarily affect their handicap, only if the oldest of their 20 scores is one of the best 8.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

louise_a said:



			Golf is about integrity and honesty and it would not necessarily affect their handicap, only if the oldest of their 20 scores is one of the best 8.
		
Click to expand...

Why do we need a signed card at all then? After all, we can simply trust everyone.

England Golf have already had to suspend player handicaps before, albeit rarely. I suspect clubs sort out most issues, and england Golf only get involved in extreme cases.

However, where action has been taken, clearly any guilty party has done what they have done in full view of Committee.

Under WhS players can change their handicaps without any intervention of Committee, until they finally see the scores have been entered. A player could enter multiple cards over a period of time in which the handicap secretary has not been at club to check. So, of course their handicap could change. And significantly.

Another one. Member A enters a score for Member B, without Member B's consent or even wishing a score to be entered. Handicap changed for the next day. No signed card, so the mess will need to he cleared up when the handicap secretary gets involved. Member A may never make themselves known, but just did it deviously on PSi terminal.

But, if we are OK at trusting integrity, and that players wont make foolish input mistakes, then let's just get rid of signed cards for handicap and let golfers enter scores as and when they wish


----------



## jim8flog (Feb 22, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Yes, and that should happen under WhS

But, as there are no checks before their score goes on record, how can you actually ensure this happens before their handicap changes?
		
Click to expand...

My understanding is that with IG the card shows as 'pending' until the H'cp secretary approves it. This is what happens when players submit their medal scores by phone instead of using the PSI screen.

We are yet to go live with supplementary cards but it probaly will when we start to notify players of the need to submit more scores in readiness for the WHS.

There are so few days at the moment when SSs can be submitted we are waiting for the weather to improve and the course to dry out before beginning our briefings which will start with notices about more cards needed.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			My understanding is that with IG the card shows as 'pending' until the H'cp secretary approves it. This is what happens when players submit their medal scores by phone instead of using the PSI screen.

We are yet to go live with supplementary cards but it probaly will when we start to notify players of the need to submit more scores in readiness for the WHS.

There are so few days at the moment when SSs can be submitted we are waiting for the weather to improve and the course to dry out before beginning our briefings which will start with notices about more cards needed.
		
Click to expand...

That's right, it shows as pending and their handicap sec has to approve it before handicap changed.

But, with WHS they can't wait for it to be approved, as it needs to go into PpE calculation and them adjust players handicap at midnight.

Would it be a solution to tag a players WHS handicap if there are unverified scores. If unverified scores result in lower index, player uses that lower index. But, if unverified scores result in higher index, player cannot use that higher index until those score are verified?

From an admin point of view, even if players are honest, could still be a nightmare. Could have over 100 scores a week, which will need to be paired up with cards. Players chased if cards not submitted or incorrect. That's before you start worrying about looking out for any unusual changes in players handicaps that may require action.

From admin point of view, what is done in USA? If players enter pretty much every round they play, does a handicap secretary check through several hundred cards a week?


----------



## rulefan (Feb 22, 2020)

No. Players are trusted, rightly or wrongly


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 22, 2020)

rulefan said:



			No. Players are trusted, rightly or wrongly
		
Click to expand...

What is the point in a scorecard then, at least for general play rounds??????


----------



## Imurg (Feb 22, 2020)

If players are "trusted" why aren't  scores from a solo round allowable..?


----------



## rulefan (Feb 22, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			What is the point in a scorecard then, at least for general play rounds??????
		
Click to expand...

Presumably because the Rules of Golf came out before new technology became available.


----------



## rulefan (Feb 22, 2020)

Imurg said:



			If players are "trusted" why aren't  scores from a solo round allowable..?
		
Click to expand...

Perhaps only up to a point.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 23, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Presumably because the Rules of Golf came out before new technology became available.
		
Click to expand...

That's the answer? I guess scorecards will be a thing of the past then once WHS comes in.


----------



## mikejohnchapman (Feb 23, 2020)

jim8flog said:



			Where I play the players  must register at the club for playing a supplementary score by signing a book in the pro shop , the card must be signed by a marker and the card must be submitted before the end of the day.
		
Click to expand...

What if the player is from another club? 

Will they have to register with your pro or just register using the terminal in the clubhouse (or mobile)?


----------



## jim8flog (Feb 23, 2020)

mikejohnchapman said:



			What if the player is from another club?

Will they have to register with your pro or just register using the terminal in the clubhouse (or mobile)?
		
Click to expand...

November is a long way off.  At the moment even our home players cannot register on a terminal or a mobile.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 24, 2020)

Depressing to see the lack of trust some seem to have in fellow golfers.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			Depressing to see the lack of trust some seem to have in fellow golfers.
		
Click to expand...

Not about trust. It is about what England Golf will expect from club committees in processing general rounds. It seems like they will be expecting a lot more than what is expected in USA (I.e. if England Golf insist scorecards are submitted and correct).

Trust is a side issue, that is more of a question to golfers in general. I.e what are their expectations?


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 24, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Not about trust. It is about what England Golf will expect from club committees in processing general rounds. It seems like they will be expecting a lot more than what is expected in USA (I.e. if England Golf insist scorecards are submitted and correct).

Trust is a side issue, that is more of a question to golfers in general. I.e what are their expectations?
		
Click to expand...

EG will expect committees to do their best, just like now. As to players expectations, they can only be measured by how committees and clubs keep their members regularly updated and informed.

We have already held basic briefings and sent out links to members on the WHS.

What is your club doing?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			EG will expect committees to do their best, just like now. As to players expectations, they can only be measured by how committees and clubs keep their members regularly updated and informed.

We have already held basic briefings and sent out links to members on the WHS.

What is your club doing?
		
Click to expand...

I have given a brief to committee members. We attended the WHs workshop last week. We have not publicised anything to club members up to that point, as we didn't want to give out dud information, particularly if certain things change. England gold instructed us to hold back just now, as they will issue out better information for club members (they say the workshop information is far too detailed for general members). So, we will be looking to publicise more to club members in a month or so. This will involve emails and information on notice board at a minimum


----------



## rulefan (Feb 24, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Not about trust. It is about what England Golf will expect from club committees in processing general rounds. It seems like they will be expecting a lot more than what is expected in USA (I.e. if England Golf insist scorecards are submitted and correct).
		
Click to expand...

My impression is that the US are out of step with the rest of the world in their rather lax attitude to general play scores. ._"This is how we have always done it"_  together with the type of club structure in the US will make it very difficult to get the players to change.
But I don't think it will matter a lot as I suspect not many UK players play competitive golf over there.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2020)

rulefan said:



			My impression is that the US are out of step with the rest of the world in their rather lax attitude to general play scores. ._"This is how we have always done it"_  together with the type of club structure in the US will make it very difficult to get the players to change.
But I don't think it will matter a lot as I suspect not many UK players play competitive golf over there.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, I've always thought it is quite lax over in the US.

But, on the flip side, does our club structure in the UK lend itself to processing many general round scorecards? A few supplementary cards is one thing, but what if we get to the stage where dozens, if not hundreds of general round scores are entered every week in summer?

If you have a full time secretary, or maybe even a pro, then they could do all this processing and checking (although I'm sure they keep themselves busy enough). But, at other clubs, you may have one person responsible for handicaps, who has a full time job and volunteers the role, and comes up once a week to check for new members, supplementary cards, etc. I can say now, they will not have the time to process all these scorecards and go looking for missing ones. In that sense, it surely must he inevitable that scorecards will no longer be a requirement and everything will be down to trust.

What absolutely cannot be said, however, is that it is expected the amount of general rounds submitted will just be the same as it is now. Not when England Golf themselves are encouraging clubs to tell their members to submit as many scores as possible. Not when England golf are heavily recommending you get members who play in informal swindles to submit their cards for handicap. And, they are asking for this even before WHS comes effective, so that players have a good portfolio of scores for their first WHS handicap.


----------



## rulefan (Feb 24, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I agree, I've always thought it is quite lax over in the US.

But, on the flip side, does our club structure in the UK lend itself to processing many general round scorecards? A few supplementary cards is one thing, but what if we get to the stage where dozens, if not hundreds of general round scores are entered every week in summer?

If you have a full time secretary, or maybe even a pro, then they could do all this processing and checking (although I'm sure they keep themselves busy enough). But, at other clubs, you may have one person responsible for handicaps, who has a full time job and volunteers the role, and comes up once a week to check for new members, supplementary cards, etc. I can say now, they will not have the time to process all these scorecards and go looking for missing ones. In that sense, it surely must he inevitable that scorecards will no longer be a requirement and everything will be down to trust.

What absolutely cannot be said, however, is that it is expected the amount of general rounds submitted will just be the same as it is now. Not when England Golf themselves are encouraging clubs to tell their members to submit as many scores as possible. Not when England golf are heavily recommending you get members who play in informal swindles to submit their cards for handicap. And, they are asking for this even before WHS comes effective, so that players have a good portfolio of scores for their first WHS handicap.
		
Click to expand...

Why do you think handicap secretaries should check all cards? If they should only check general play cards, what makes them different to competition cards? Do you believe that that is normal practice now? Are players really that incompetent or dishonest?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Why do you think handicap secretaries should check all cards? If they should only check general play cards, what makes them different to competition cards? Do you believe that that is normal practice now? Are players really that incompetent or dishonest?
		
Click to expand...

Do you think supplementary cards should not be checked, or that it doesn't really matter? If so, why bother with a card?


----------



## rulefan (Feb 24, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Do you think supplementary cards should not be checked, or that it doesn't really matter? If so, why bother with a card?
		
Click to expand...

a) The RoG currently require a card
b) Back up in case of disputes
c) A player may not want to carry an input device (phone app, gps app) but would rather enter by reference to his card on return to the clubhouse.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2020)

rulefan said:



			a) The RoG currently require a card
b) Back up in case of disputes
c) A player may not want to carry an input device (phone app, gps app) but would rather enter by reference to his card on return to the clubhouse.
		
Click to expand...

A card must also be submitted under CONGU, otherwise 0.1 must be added to handicap.

I presumed that, as handicap secretary, it would be my responsibility to ensure that card had been filled in correctly, and score input correctly, before validating score.

But, you suggest I dont really need to check it at all?


----------



## rulefan (Feb 24, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			A card must also be submitted under CONGU, otherwise 0.1 must be added to handicap.

I presumed that, as handicap secretary, it would be my responsibility to ensure that card had been filled in correctly, and score input correctly, before validating score.

But, you suggest I dont really need to check it at all?
		
Click to expand...

Where does it say you must or should?
Incidentally, they use card scanners in Australia.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 24, 2020)

rulefan said:



			Where does it say you must or should?
Incidentally, they use card scanners in Australia.
		
Click to expand...

21.10 in Congu Manual

If a player who has registered for a Supplementary Score subsequently does not return a card an increase in handicap of 0.1 must be applied


----------



## rulefan (Feb 25, 2020)

It doesn't require you to check the details. The player enters his score asap (as required by WHS) and puts his card in the box. At your leisure, check the entry log against the cards in the box.

Do you check the scores on all comp cards and that all entries have been returned?


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 25, 2020)

rulefan said:



			It doesn't require you to check the details. The player enters his score asap (as required by WHS) and puts his card in the box. *At your leisure, check the entry log against the cards in the box*.

Do you check the scores on all comp cards and that all entries have been returned?
		
Click to expand...

For competitions, we check all cards have been returned, yes. Otherwise they get an NR. Do we check every score? No, only the top scores. However, if a wrong score is typed in, a player will often highlight it as they all know what each other got. If not, it will often still be a 0.1 increase anyway. Worst case, the difference will be 0.1 to their handicap. However, we do check ALL cards are signed and have the handicaps on them.

Well, I am glad that, as handicap secretary, I can officially not check the details of a supplementary card, not check whether it is signed or correct handicap applied. Or is it just the scores I don't need to bother with? Even if I don't have to bother about the details, you must admit that, under WHS I will still have to find those cards and log them against entered scores, based on your highlighted comment. If we get inundated with scores, that could still be some task, especially if cards are missing. What then, ignore it?


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

Seems that EG need to sort out their act as at the SW briefing we were advised to start briefing on basic changes as soon as your able. 

Perhaps your over complicating things as the myths that every card is going to happen and social Golf is going away have all been cleared up.


----------



## rulefan (Feb 25, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			For competitions, we check all cards have been returned, yes. Otherwise they get an NR. Do we check every score? No, only the top scores. However, if a wrong score is typed in, a player will often highlight it as they all know what each other got. If not, it will often still be a 0.1 increase anyway. Worst case, the difference will be 0.1 to their handicap. However, we do check ALL cards are signed and have the handicaps on them.

Well, I am glad that, as handicap secretary, I can officially not check the details of a supplementary card, not check whether it is signed or correct handicap applied. Or is it just the scores I don't need to bother with? Even if I don't have to bother about the details, you must admit that, under WHS I will still have to find those cards and log them against entered scores, based on your highlighted comment. If we get inundated with scores, that could still be some task, especially if cards are missing. What then, ignore it?
		
Click to expand...

I can't remember if you have already said if your players enter their scores into a PSI or whether you do the entry.


----------



## jim8flog (Feb 25, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			What is your club doing?
		
Click to expand...

 We are waiting until membership  renewal date is well past,  I see a lot of players being considered for a handicap suspension (we have more than 100 players with no real handicap record since early 2018) and do not want to give them a reason to finally give up playing.

 We want the course to be good enough to use for supplementary scores, we currently have more than 2 temps nearly every time the course is actually open.


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

If we have a winter like this one where many courses are closed or conditions are such that qualifiers and supplementary cards won't be an issue there will (I hope ) be a long enough period to bed everything in.

IMO I'm not sure there's going to be a massive increase in supplementary cards and even if there is most systems mean checking supp cards agains whatever system is used for recording the round is quick and simple.


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 25, 2020)

rst: 2124920 said:
			
		


			I can't remember if you have already said if your players enter their scores into a PSI or whether you do the entry.
		
Click to expand...

I do entry, but golfers technically can use PSI. I day technically, because the psi screen no longer provides a supplementary option and we can't figure out why


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I do entry, but golfers technically can use PSI. I day technically, because the psi screen no longer provides a supplementary option and we can't figure out why
		
Click to expand...

What system do you use


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 25, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			What system do you use
		
Click to expand...

Club V1. There used to be an option to sign in and enter for a supplementary score. But, it just disappeared. The comp sec, who uses the system most, cannot find why the option has disappeared. Obviously, it is just one thing we'll need to get sorted before the summer, and certainly before November


----------



## upsidedown (Feb 25, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Club V1. There used to be an option to sign in and enter for a supplementary score. But, it just disappeared. The comp sec, who uses the system most, cannot find why the option has disappeared. Obviously, it is just one thing we'll need to get sorted before the summer, and certainly before November
		
Click to expand...

Talk to their helpline , they've been very helpful to us in the past


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Club V1. There used to be an option to sign in and enter for a supplementary score. But, it just disappeared. The comp sec, who uses the system most, cannot find why the option has disappeared. Obviously, it is just one thing we'll need to get sorted before the summer, and certainly before November
		
Click to expand...

If he has the necessary permissions he needs to check at :
Club
Settings
PSI Settings
Make sure - Allow PSI Supplementary Scores is ticked

Failing that as advised, the help desk is very good and are also able to take over the desk top to check out your system and settings


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 25, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			If he has the necessary permissions he needs to check at :
Club
Settings
PSI Settings
Make sure - Allow PSI Supplementary Scores is ticked

Failing that as advised, the help desk is very good and are also able to take over the desk top to check out your system and settings
		
Click to expand...

Many thanks. Just logged in now. I can get as far as Settings, but no PSI Settings option within that. So, perhaps we do not have the permissions. I shall ask the owners next time I am up. Maybe they accidentally unticked the box


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			Many thanks. Just logged in now. I can get as far as Settings, but no PSI Settings option within that. So, perhaps we do not have the permissions. I shall ask the owners next time I am up. Maybe they accidentally unticked the box
		
Click to expand...

You might have not scrolled down enough on the left hand side menue


----------



## Swango1980 (Feb 25, 2020)

Old Skier said:



			You might have not scrolled down enough on the left hand side menue
		
Click to expand...

I think I have. On left hand side, all I get is:

Club Details
Hub & Casual Booking
Courses
Course Cards
SMS Settings
Notifications
Product Level
Diary Settings

Stops after that


----------



## Old Skier (Feb 25, 2020)

Swango1980 said:



			I think I have. On left hand side, all I get is:

Club Details
Hub & Casual Booking
Courses
Course Cards
SMS Settings
Notifications
Product Level
Diary Settings

Stops after that
		
Click to expand...

Must be a permissions  issue then  as there is a host more. Good luck and don't forget the help desk.


----------

