# Extinction rebellion



## spongebob59 (Oct 8, 2019)

Can some explain to me how this promotes climate change ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1181516939610513408


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 8, 2019)

I suspect they are trying to raise awareness among certain demographics of the population. They have probably realized that a young Swedish girl raising awareness was too frightening for some people to cope with as she was not a very rich business person with vested interests in doing all they can to exploit the environment.  So they are taking a different approach and trying some interpretative dance?


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 8, 2019)

It has made the news, no doubt created debate on a lot of social media. They have pushed it on to the news agenda and it may get some people thinking about it when they would not otherwise. The individual acts, not so much, but overall they are being heard. (maybe not liked or respected but they are certainly being heard)


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 8, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			Can some explain to me how this promotes climate change ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1181516939610513408

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I am old enough to remember the massive uproar that Peter Hain [now a Lord, I know]  caused when he disrupted a few cricket and rugger games when demonstrating against apartheid in South Africa.


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## drdel (Oct 8, 2019)

But I suspect the owners/users of private jets, motor yachts etc won't be listening while they consume more fossil fuel in one trip than you and I in a lifetime.

(Boeing has private orders for 13, of their 'luxury' 777s each with a fuel capacity over 175,000 litres!)


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 8, 2019)

I got caught up in this yesterday, and today. Yesterday I had my van searched twice by the police, and this morning all the road closures and traffic queueing to get round the enforced diversion. I saw loads walking to the embankment yesterday, phones in hand laughing and giggling.
Hitting a city in a country that is at least doing something whether what they feel is enough or not won't help when countries like China continue to carry on as they do. Perhaps they should try blockading the streets of Beijing and see how many years they get in prison.
If they wanted to make a global change, stop buying stuff thats made in the countries that wont do anything. But I suppose that new iphone they need to buy every 18 months must be had.


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## spongebob59 (Oct 8, 2019)

There was pictures off them q'ing at McD's for lunch too


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			Hitting a city in a country that is at least doing something whether what they feel is enough or not won't help when countries like China continue to *carry on as they do.*

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I wonder which part of the world is producing the most clean, cheap renewable energy........
USA?
572,409 Gigawatt hours
Russia?
170,077 GWH
Britain?
87,083 GWH
No.

China 1,398,207 GWH

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/top-15-countries-using-renewable-energy.html

One GWH will power around 700,000 homes


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I wonder which part of the world is producing the most clean, cheap renewable energy........
USA?
572,409 Gigawatt hours
Russia?
170,077 GWH
Britain?
87,083 GWH
No.

China 1,398,207 GWH

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/top-15-countries-using-renewable-energy.html

One GWH will power around 700,000 homes
		
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And how does that pan out as a percentage of population or homes?


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## Old Skier (Oct 8, 2019)

Laughed when the actress was asked this morning how many flights she took this year. Failed to give a decent answer.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I wonder which part of the world is producing the most clean, cheap renewable energy........
USA?
572,409 Gigawatt hours
Russia?
170,077 GWH
Britain?
87,083 GWH
No.

China 1,398,207 GWH

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/top-15-countries-using-renewable-energy.html

One GWH will power around 700,000 homes
		
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So how does that affect or impact on the amount of resources used from the earth, pollution created and future problems created?
Just because China creates the most renewable electricity (allegedly) it doesnt mean they can be pardoned for illegal cfc production, amongst any amount of world damaging actiosn, processes and materials created.
Pollution comes from every thing created, and even those supposed good items can create more damage (the gas used to stifle sparks in wind turbines for example) than the old tech the greeners want removed.
TBH I fail to see why tidal generation isn't leading the way instead of wind or solar, at least it's constant, measureable and predictable.


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So how does that affect or impact on the amount of resources used from the earth, pollution created and future problems created?
Just because China creates the most renewable electricity (allegedly) it doesnt mean they can be pardoned for illegal cfc production, amongst any amount of world damaging actiosn, processes and materials created.
Pollution comes from every thing created, and even those supposed good items can create more damage (the gas used to stifle sparks in wind turbines for example) than the old tech the greeners want removed.
TBH I fail to see why tidal generation isn't leading the way instead of wind or solar, at least it's constant, measureable and predictable.
		
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You claimed that China wasn't doing anything to alleviate the problem.
I just pointed that it is doing more than anyone else.
And when I talk about renewable energy, that includes tidal.


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## Imurg (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I wonder which part of the world is producing the most clean, cheap renewable energy........
USA?
572,409 Gigawatt hours
Russia?
170,077 GWH
Britain?
87,083 GWH
No.

China 1,398,207 GWH

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/top-15-countries-using-renewable-energy.html

One GWH will power around 700,000 homes
		
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Er.....
We produce 87k+ GWH and 1 GWH powers 700k homes.....
Either we have a shed load more homes than we think we've got or some maths is wrong somewhere....


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 8, 2019)

bobmac said:



			You claimed that China wasn't doing anything to alleviate the problem.
I just pointed that it is doing more than anyone else.
		
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So does being the country who is allegedly creating the most renewable electricity  allow it to illegally create CFC gas because it's cheaper to create for their air con systems they are installing in massive amounts?


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## bobmac (Oct 8, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So does being the country who is allegedly creating the most renewable electricity  allow it to illegally create CFC gas because it's cheaper to create for their air con systems they are installing in massive amounts?
		
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I agree, it is wrong but you can't change the actions and needs of 1.4bn people overnight.


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## MegaSteve (Oct 8, 2019)

Believe we need to get a lot further down the road to putting our own house in order before we start questioning the tardiness of others...


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## Beezerk (Oct 8, 2019)

So they've scrawled their logo on the white horse in Wiltshire. Absolute morons.


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## robinthehood (Oct 8, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			There was pictures off them q'ing at McD's for lunch too 

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Are people not allowed to eat?


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## IanM (Oct 8, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Are people not allowed to eat?
		
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If part of the manifesto is moaning about global beef production, McDs might be a place to avoid?


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## robinthehood (Oct 8, 2019)

IanM said:



			If part of the manifesto is moaning about global beef production, McDs might be a place to avoid?
		
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Maybe they has the fillet o fish ðŸ˜‚


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			So they've scrawled their logo on the white horse in Wiltshire. Absolute morons.
		
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Apparently not;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-49972467

But I don't dispute your description of them.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 9, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			Apparently not;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-49972467

But I don't dispute your description of them.
		
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I think the biggest sentence in that article "it has put the children off Extinction Rebellion" is the most telling. If they want the next generation to carry the message on these are exactly who they need to be engaging with and now they've lost a whole community of goodwill and many others will sympathise at the work the children did being ruined and ignore Extinction Rebellion as a just cause


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 9, 2019)

Beezerk said:



			So they've scrawled their logo on the white horse in Wiltshire. Absolute morons.
		
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They have put their logo on top of some old countryside graffiti...â€¦â€¦â€¦.


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## USER1999 (Oct 9, 2019)

China produces a lot of hydro electricity. Mainly by damming huge rivers, displacing millions of people, and ruining the local agriculture. I am not sure this would work so well in the UK.


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## IanM (Oct 9, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			They have put their logo on top of some old countryside graffiti...â€¦â€¦â€¦.

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Really.  I guess if they knock Stonehenge down that's ok?

Interesting that they are paying their "volunteers" (see their own website) No wonder _rent a scumbag _has latched on.  I wonder who is giving them them funding for this?   People interested in the planet, or people interested in disrupting London?


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## stefanovic (Oct 9, 2019)

They ridiculed Einstein (relativity was absurd), Pasteur (diseases were caused by germs), Marconi (wireless communication), Wright Brothers, Fulton...and so on.
Now they are ridiculing the likes of Greta Thunberg and David Wallace-Wells (The Uninhabitable Earth).
Today I'm reading 40 places in Northern Europe have recently registered their highest temperatures.
Governments around the world have ignored the climate science for 3 decades. Their only mission is to grow the economy and to hell with the science.


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 9, 2019)

IanM said:



			Really.  I guess if they knock Stonehenge down that's ok?
		
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Goodness me that escalated quickly.
Even by your standards.


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## bobmac (Oct 9, 2019)

IanM said:



			Really.  I guess if they knock Stonehenge down that's ok?
		
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Well, they'll have to move the stones anyway in a couple of weeks when the clocks change.


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## IanM (Oct 9, 2019)

Apologies for having the audacity to not allow these folk a free reign to do what they want.  I didn't get the updated list of stuff you must not criticise on here.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 9, 2019)

So they glue themselves to buildings and vehicles. Why do the police free them and remove them? Leave them stuck in place. Lets see how long they can put up with underwear full of their own waste or the cold and wet of the night.
They want to suffer for the cause, so let them.


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## drdel (Oct 9, 2019)

IanM said:



			Really.  I guess if they knock Stonehenge down that's ok?

Interesting that they are paying their "volunteers" (see their own website) No wonder _rent a scumbag _has latched on.  I wonder who is giving them them funding for this?   People interested in the planet, or people interested in disrupting London?
		
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Reports suggest donations running at Â£45k/day !!


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## Norrin Radd (Oct 9, 2019)

drdel said:



			Reports suggest donations running at Â£45k/day !!
		
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Hopefully they will pay that to the government so they can pay the police that are having to be on duty


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## Old Skier (Oct 9, 2019)

IanM said:



			Really.  I guess if they knock Stonehenge down that's ok?
		
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Does that mean we can widen the 303 now.


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## spongebob59 (Oct 9, 2019)

Neil gave the XR spokeslady both barrells too.


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## Old Skier (Oct 9, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			Neil gave the XR spokeslady both barrells too.
		
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She was completely out of her depth. Youd have thought she would have done some research before going on. She's supposed to be their spokesperson and she did more to harm what they stand for than good.


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## spongebob59 (Oct 10, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			Neil gave the XR spokeslady both barrells too.
		
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__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182052201629470720


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## MegaSteve (Oct 10, 2019)

spongebob59 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182052201629470720

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Did have some sympathy for her... As she has most probably read the constant headlines that everyone at the Beeb is a tree hugging leftie!


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## Lazkir (Oct 10, 2019)

Rabbit in the headlights comes to mind after watching that.


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## bobmac (Oct 10, 2019)

The world population continues to rise
Demand for energy continues to rise
Oil and gas are running out and will increase in price
Future generations will have to get energy from somewhere else.
Renewable energy is cleaner, sustainable and reducing in price.
In my opinion, it's not a matter of if but when we change and I would argue that, fortunately for future generations, it has already started.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 10, 2019)

bobmac said:




The world population continues to rise
Demand for energy continues to rise
Oil and gas are running out and will increase in price
Future generations will have to get energy from somewhere else.
Renewable energy is cleaner, sustainable and reducing in price.
In my opinion, it's not a matter of if but when we change and I would argue that, fortunately for future generations, it has already started.
		
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I admire your drive for electric cars and renewable energy Bob, but that isnâ€™t the biggest problem and focusing on it wonâ€™t solve the issue.
 The World as a whole is using far to many of its resources for the huge mainstream of tech and new products the consumer wants.
Energy is just a cog in the wheel of the World. The World is wanting new cars every 3 years, new phones every 18 months, new golf club every year or 2......the list is endless and always the new products are sold and made more cheaply so the consumer will buy it and not repair the old item because theyâ€™re told itâ€™s â€œinefficientâ€ and parts made deliberately cost prohibitive compared to a new product.
I work in the white goods industry, and when Instrated a Zanussi washing machine was around Â£180. 37 years later you can get a washing machine for that if not a fraction more. You can tell me itâ€™s more â€œefficientâ€, but when it breaks you wonâ€™t be able to repair it without serious expense, if at all. So you buy another cheap washing machine. 
How does that mindset work?
Iâ€™ve seen perfectly good machine scrapped because the repair bill is about a half of the cost of a new machine, but I know the old machine is better made, more robust, more repairable and will probably actually last longer than 5he new cheap machine they will buy. 

I accept the climate is changing, and things need to change for everyoneâ€™s sake, but unless you take every one in every country along the same path at the same time you wonâ€™t alter the situation. Itâ€™s all very well protesting in countryâ€™s that allow free speech, itâ€™s another thing getting countries that donâ€™t allow it to change and that should be the target. Weâ€™ve already seen what one country can do to targets and goals with China and its illegal manufacture of CFC gases for their air con system that are being made and installed in huge numbers, the ozone hole in the Southern Hemisphere has increased markedly after years of shrinking, and the reason can be easily mapped.
Do you think the Chinese government is going to listen to those blocking streets in a few free speech cities in other countries? Of course not.
Anyway Iâ€™ve said my piece


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## USER1999 (Oct 10, 2019)

I thought the Chinese were using cfc for insulation foam, not air con? Same problems, clearly, but different use.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 10, 2019)

I support their intentions; I have some reservations about the extent they are going and the continuation - though a quick point made is often easily forgotten by those impacted; but I am not sure that I would do something at risk of arrest and conviction - and the protesters are willing to make that sacrifice for their beliefs.  And I am not sure that we are all willing to make such a significant personal 'sacrifice' in the cause of tackling global warming - and these folks are.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 10, 2019)

Seen an excellent piece on Oz TV today re ER. In essence I never knew it was British based formed by three folk. 2 guys and a woman. One of the guys who put up for EU elections but was blown out..now admittedly wants to bring anarchy to the political system. They interviewed some of the marchers who quite frankly came across as thick as pig shit. In Oz where ER are causing probs in Sydney, brisbane and Melborne. They quote Bush fires as proof of global warming. Top university professors have ridiculed it as rubbish. In fact police are looking for arsonists who set off some of the fires. A prominent activist has been arrested for the 11th time today in oz. He is massively anti establishment, yet he lives off benefits what the establishment pays for. Not saying they have a case  but they way they go about it is not doing there cause any good.


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## bobmac (Oct 10, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I admire your drive for electric cars and renewable energy Bob, but that isnâ€™t the biggest problem and focusing on it wonâ€™t solve the issue.
The World as a whole is using far to many of its resources for the huge mainstream of tech and new products the consumer wants.
Energy is just a cog in the wheel of the World. The World is wanting new cars every 3 years, new phones every 18 months, new golf club every year or 2......the list is endless and always the new products are sold and made more cheaply so the consumer will buy it and not repair the old item because theyâ€™re told itâ€™s â€œinefficientâ€ and parts made deliberately cost prohibitive compared to a new product.
I work in the white goods industry, and when Instrated a Zanussi washing machine was around Â£180. 37 years later you can get a washing machine for that if not a fraction more. You can tell me itâ€™s more â€œefficientâ€, but when it breaks you wonâ€™t be able to repair it without serious expense, if at all. So you buy another cheap washing machine.
How does that mindset work?
Iâ€™ve seen perfectly good machine scrapped because the repair bill is about a half of the cost of a new machine, but I know the old machine is better made, more robust, more repairable and will probably actually last longer than 5he new cheap machine they will buy.

I accept the climate is changing, and things need to change for everyoneâ€™s sake, but unless you take every one in every country along the same path at the same time you wonâ€™t alter the situation. Itâ€™s all very well protesting in countryâ€™s that allow free speech, itâ€™s another thing getting countries that donâ€™t allow it to change and that should be the target. Weâ€™ve already seen what one country can do to targets and goals with China and its illegal manufacture of CFC gases for their air con system that are being made and installed in huge numbers, the ozone hole in the Southern Hemisphere has increased markedly after years of shrinking, and the reason can be easily mapped.
Do you think the Chinese government is going to listen to those blocking streets in a few free speech cities in other countries? Of course not.
Anyway Iâ€™ve said my piece

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1. I didn't mention electric cars.
2. I've already said what a small part of China is doing is wrong. Hebei and Shandong
3. And if you think repairing a washing machine is more important than clean air and having electricity then I'm done.


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## Lilyhawk (Oct 10, 2019)

spongebob59 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182052201629470720

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"Zion Lights". Now that's a name that you put forward as a spokes person if you don't want people to take you seriously.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 10, 2019)

stefanovic said:



			They ridiculed Einstein (relativity was absurd), Pasteur (diseases were caused by germs), Marconi (wireless communication), Wright Brothers, Fulton...and so on.
Now they are ridiculing the likes of Greta Thunberg and David Wallace-Wells (The Uninhabitable Earth).
Today I'm reading 40 places in Northern Europe have recently registered their highest temperatures.
Governments around the world have ignored the climate science for 3 decades. Their only mission is to grow the economy and to hell with the science.
		
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All those people you mention told us something we didnt know, this current rabble keep dishing up things we are quite aware of. If they want to aspire to the likes of Einstein or Pasteur then do more than glueing yourself to a bus.


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## Reemul (Oct 10, 2019)

bobmac said:



			3. And if you think repairing a washing machine is more important than clean air and having electricity then I'm done.
		
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Your reply totally misses the point he is making and exactly sums up why we won't solve this issue currently. It is not about the washing machine itself it's about the culture of our world and the expectation we have and our need for want want want.

It really is like brexit you know. The remainers put out such a shite message they lost the vote and we are in danger of losing the message amoung all the hyperbole and rubbish. People do not need an excuse to ignore it presently so we really need to give them as little reason to as it is and instead the way the message is portrayed can and does put many people off or chooses to ignore them.


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## bobmac (Oct 10, 2019)

Reemul said:



			Your reply totally misses the point he is making and exactly sums up why we won't solve this issue currently. It is not about the washing machine itself it's about the culture of our world and the expectation we have and our need for want want want.
		
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I know what the point was, I just think he's wrong.


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## Dando (Oct 10, 2019)

stefanovic said:



			They ridiculed Einstein (relativity was absurd), Pasteur (diseases were caused by germs), Marconi (wireless communication), Wright Brothers, Fulton...and so on.
Now they are ridiculing the likes of Greta Thunberg and David Wallace-Wells (The Uninhabitable Earth).
Today I'm reading 40 places in Northern Europe have recently registered their highest temperatures.
Governments around the world have ignored the climate science for 3 decades. Their only mission is to grow the economy and to hell with the science.
		
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its those pesky caravans and motorhomes, not doubt driven by fat rugby players


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## USER1999 (Oct 10, 2019)

Dando said:



			its those pesky caravans and motorhomes, not doubt driven by fat rugby players
		
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Too damn right. On their way to the pub to boot.


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## Lazkir (Oct 10, 2019)

bobmac said:



			1. I didn't mention electric cars.
2. I've already said what a small part of China is doing is wrong. Hebei and Shandong
3. *And if you think repairing a washing machine is more important than clean air and having electricity then I'm done.*

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Whoosh...


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 10, 2019)

bobmac said:



			And if you think repairing a washing machine is more important than clean air and having electricity then I'm done.
		
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Fair enough Bob, if you can't see the connection between a cheap throwaway society and climate change then I have misjudged you.


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## bobmac (Oct 10, 2019)

So people don't recycle cars, phones, batteries, white goods etc?

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter if you keep your stuff for ever, you're still going to need electricity/diesel/petrol to run them.
Where will that come from when fossil fuels run out?
And how much will the price go up as it starts to run out.
If you don't think planning ahead for the future without fossil fuels is important then fair enough but there are many who do and fortunately, most of them are in laboratories and not glued to railings.
If the real protesters (not swampy and his mates) want to protest, they should be outside Hinkley Point C


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## SocketRocket (Oct 10, 2019)

bobmac said:



			So people don't recycle cars, phones, batteries, white goods etc?

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter if you keep your stuff for ever, you're still going to need electricity/diesel/petrol to run them.
Where will that come from when fossil fuels run out?
And how much will the price go up as it starts to run out.
If you don't think planning ahead for the future without fossil fuels is important then fair enough but there are many who do and fortunately, most of them are in laboratories and not glued to railings.
If the real protesters (not swampy and his mates) want to protest, they should be outside Hinkley Point C
		
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Surely Hinkley Point C is not where they should be protesting.


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## bobmac (Oct 10, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Surely Hinkley Point C is not where they should be protesting.
		
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Because it won't be ready until the end of 2025 at the earliest, will cost Â£22bn and be the most expensive fuel available.
Not to mention the cost of the nuclear waste disposal and guarding and if something does go pop, you might as well close the bottom left corner of Britain.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 10, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Because it won't be ready until the end of 2025 at the earliest, will cost Â£22bn and be the most expensive fuel available.
Not to mention the cost of the nuclear waste disposal and guarding and if something does go pop, you might as well close the bottom left corner of Britain.
		
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2025 is better than never.

Isn't the cost being borne mainly by private equity (China) ?

How many Nuclear Power Stations have we built and how many quadrants of the UK have they zapped?


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## USER1999 (Oct 10, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			2025 is better than never.

Isn't the cost being borne mainly by private equity (China) ?

How many Nuclear Power Stations have we built and how many quadrants of the UK have they zapped?
		
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The new power station being built has guaranteed prices 3 times above what is currently available. It is expensive electricity.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 10, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			The new power station being built has guaranteed prices 3 times above what is currently available. It is expensive electricity.
		
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Better than none though and what about all these electric cars that will need recharging.


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## Lazkir (Oct 11, 2019)

Complete a**ehole Essex nobs who want to put the great unwashed back in their places. Because lets face it, if they got their way it would really mean that only the wealthy would be able to afford to drive and fly. The rest of us would have to go back to doffing our caps.


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## bobmac (Oct 11, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			The new power station being built has guaranteed prices 3 times above what is currently available. It is expensive electricity.
		
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SocketRocket said:



			Better than none though and what about all these electric cars that will need recharging.
		
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Better than none?
So if Hinkley was cancelled, we'd have no electricity?



SocketRocket said:



			2025 is better than never.

Isn't the cost being borne mainly by private equity (China) ?
		
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_Last week, prices for new wind power delivered by 2025 were set at prices as low as Â£40 per megawatt hour and falling. By comparison, power from Hinkley Point C is expected to cost Â£92.50 per megawatt hour and rising
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49823305 _

_The set price is high enough for EDF Energy to remain in line for *healthy shareholder returns* from the Hinkley Point project despite its rising costs.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/25/hinkley-point-nuclear-plant-to-run-29m-over-budget _




SocketRocket said:



			How many Nuclear Power Stations have we built and how many quadrants of the UK have they zapped?
		
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None yet.
How many suicide bombers would it take?

And not forgetting all that lovely nuclear waste...

_Most nuclear waste produced is hazardous, due to its radioactivity, for only a few tens of years and is routinely disposed of in near-surface disposal facilities (see above). Only a small volume of nuclear waste (~3% of the total volume) is long-lived and highly radioactive *and requires isolation from the environment for many thousands of years.*_

https://www.world-nuclear.org/infor...s/radioactive-wastes-myths-and-realities.aspx 

Can you provide any reason why nuclear energy will be better than renewable energy in the years to come?


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## Tashyboy (Oct 11, 2019)

As I have said, I think ER have a point t, but I cannot help but think ot is an ideal situation for the professionally offended to enrol in.


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## stefanovic (Oct 11, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			All those people you mention told us something we didnt know, this current rabble keep dishing up things we are quite aware of. If they want to aspire to the likes of Einstein or Pasteur then do more than glueing yourself to a bus.
		
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One name I forgot was the naturalist Charles Darwin. He was ridiculed for saying that humans and apes shared a common ancestor. Now confirmed by DNA.
Darwin went to Brazil and was overwhelmed by the Amazon. 
So why is the forest so important and what exactly does a tree do.
All a tree needs is 2 things - water and carbon atoms, both of which come from the air. It mines the C from CO2 and expels the O2. That's how the forest oxygenates the world. Fewer trees mean less carbon absorption and more greenhouse effect. ER began with the felling of trees for a bus lane.


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## Grant85 (Oct 11, 2019)

While I am inclined to be critical of their actions given they are setting out to cause disruption, I also have to make the point that many successful campaigns have been as a result of similar direct action - in terms of suffrage, civil rights, the end of apartheid. 

It seems they are being effective in terms of getting their beliefs on the agenda, getting talked about and building momentum for their campaign.


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## Grant85 (Oct 11, 2019)

With regards to climate change as a whole - I think you are being ignorant if you don't think this is happening. You only have to see the mild winters, tropical rainstorms and hot and humid summers we get to know that the weather is more extreme than it was a few decades ago. 

Whether it continues to happen at the pace as some would have you believe remains to be seen. 

My issue with it is that humans have been heating up the planet for nearly 200 years since the industrial revolution. That has allowed the medical and technological revolution to massively improve people's lifestyle and healthcare so people live longer and have children who survive into adulthood etc etc. And millions can afford a car (or 2 per household) and a foreign holiday (or several) each year and to buy a shed load of stuff that is shipped from all over the world be it food, clothes, technology etc. 

So if this has been going on since 1850 or so... and the population has grown from 1.2 Billion to 8 Billion in that time... then it is surely going to be almost impossible to halt or reverse what has happened? 

Surely even if everyone had electric cars and we stopped eating meat and burning fossil fuels tomorrow... just the fact that 8 Billion people are living, breathing, heating their homes, cooking nettle soup etc. is still going to be having an impact on the planet and the atmosphere to the point that is is irreversible?  

One person being alive radiates heat into the air. 
People heat their homes, radiates heat into the air. 
Even electric motors and efficient lightbulbs, insulated properties etc will do the same. 

If the population continues to grow by 70 or 80 million people a year, then surely all we could do at best, is slow down what is happening?


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## MegaSteve (Oct 11, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			With regards to climate change as a whole - I think you are being ignorant if you don't think this is happening. You only have to see the mild winters, tropical rainstorms and hot and humid summers we get to know that the weather is more extreme than it was a few decades ago.

Whether it continues to happen at the pace as some would have you believe remains to be seen.

My issue with it is that humans have been heating up the planet for nearly 200 years since the industrial revolution. That has allowed the medical and technological revolution to massively improve people's lifestyle and healthcare so people live longer and have children who survive into adulthood etc etc. And millions can afford a car (or 2 per household) and a foreign holiday (or several) each year and to buy a shed load of stuff that is shipped from all over the world be it food, clothes, technology etc.

So if this has been going on since 1850 or so... and the population has grown from 1.2 Billion to 8 Billion in that time... then it is surely going to be almost impossible to halt or reverse what has happened?

Surely even if everyone had electric cars and we stopped eating meat and burning fossil fuels tomorrow... just the fact that 8 Billion people are living, breathing, heating their homes, cooking nettle soup etc. is still going to be having an impact on the planet and the atmosphere to the point that is is irreversible? 

One person being alive radiates heat into the air.
People heat their homes, radiates heat into the air.
Even electric motors and efficient lightbulbs, insulated properties etc will do the same.

If the population continues to grow by 70 or 80 million people a year, then surely all we could do at best, is slow down what is happening?
		
Click to expand...

So, the answer to the conundrum may well lie with sticking to hugging trees and not the opposite sex...


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## bobmac (Oct 11, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			So, the answer to the conundrum may well lie with sticking to hugging trees and not the opposite sex...
		
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I'm going to steal that  
Don't hug each other, hug a tree


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## Grant85 (Oct 11, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			So, the answer to the conundrum may well lie with sticking to hugging trees and not the opposite sex...
		
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I doubt that is even an answer and clearly it would be almost impossible to implement. 

I suspect we are now well past the tipping point and that just the existence of 8 billion people and provision of the food and electricity to keep them alive would do the damage, even if fossil fuels weren't being burned and we were eating minimum levels of meat / protein.  

I guess humans have gone from learning how to survive, to learning how to thrive and have become staggeringly efficient at it.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Can you provide any reason why nuclear energy will be better than renewable energy in the years to come?
		
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If tidal energy was used then you have a source of motion that is guaranteed twice a day as opposed to wind that isnt, although tidal energy costs a great deal to build, im not sure whether its cheaper than nuclear though.   I think a mixed bag of solutions would be best.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 11, 2019)

stefanovic said:



			One name I forgot was the naturalist Charles Darwin. He was ridiculed for saying that humans and apes shared a common ancestor. Now confirmed by DNA.
Darwin went to Brazil and was overwhelmed by the Amazon. 
So why is the forest so important and what exactly does a tree do.
All a tree needs is 2 things - water and carbon atoms, both of which come from the air. It mines the C from CO2 and expels the O2. That's how the forest oxygenates the world. Fewer trees mean less carbon absorption and more greenhouse effect. ER began with the felling of trees for a bus lane.
		
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Is that something I am not aware of?


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## bobmac (Oct 11, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			If tidal energy was used then you have a source of motion that is guaranteed twice a day as opposed to wind that isnt, although tidal energy costs a great deal to build, im not sure whether its cheaper than nuclear though.   I think a mixed bag of solutions would be best.
		
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Tidal (Hydro power) is included in renewable energy group as it is, well, renewable.
See post no. 12


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## SocketRocket (Oct 11, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Tidal (Hydro power) is included in renewable energy group as it is, well, renewable.
See post no. 12
		
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The point in question was whether its cheaper to supply than nuclear, you suggested nuclear was too expensive.


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## bobmac (Oct 12, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			The point in question was whether its cheaper to supply than nuclear, you suggested nuclear was too expensive.
		
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I thought the point was that the protesters should be at Hinkley
Â£22bn to make expensive electricity that nobody will want, creating dangerous waste that will last 1000s of years using new untried technology AND there's discussions going on about building another 6 nuclear power plants.
Meanwhile the cost of renewable energy as a whole continues to fall.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 12, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I thought the point was that the protesters should be at Hinkley
Â£22bn to make expensive electricity that nobody will want, creating dangerous waste that will last 1000s of years using new untried technology AND there's discussions going on about building another 6 nuclear power plants.
Meanwhile the cost of renewable energy as a whole continues to fall.
		
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So nobody will want electricticityðŸ¤”     As I said, a mixed bag of power generation seems a better way to me.


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## larmen (Oct 12, 2019)

Grant85 said:



			IMI suspect we are now well past the tipping point and that just the existence of 8 billion people and provision of the food and electricity to keep them alive would do the damage
		
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Dan Brown picked up on it in his book Inferno, but they reversed the ending for the movie.


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## bobmac (Oct 12, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			So nobody will want electricticityðŸ¤”     As I said, a mixed bag of power generation seems a better way to me.
		
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The national grid won't want it.


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## stefanovic (Oct 12, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Is that something I am not aware of?
		
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What are you not aware of?
Assume you mean trees absorb CO2, taking the carbon atoms out of the atmosphere for themselves and expelling oxygen atoms. That's why trees are a treasure. 
If there is not enough CO2 in the air then trees die. If there is too much CO2 it leads to the greenhouse effect. Then we need more trees. 
In addition the carbon which has been stored within the ground for millions of years is now being released as fossil fuel. 
So it's a double whammy.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 14, 2019)

Apparently left the cenotaph in a bit of a mess


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## SocketRocket (Oct 14, 2019)

stefanovic said:



			What are you not aware of?
Assume you mean trees absorb CO2, taking the carbon atoms out of the atmosphere for themselves and expelling oxygen atoms. That's why trees are a treasure. 
If there is not enough CO2 in the air then trees die. If there is too much CO2 it leads to the greenhouse effect. Then we need more trees. 
In addition the carbon which has been stored within the ground for millions of years is now being released as fossil fuel. 
So it's a double whammy.
		
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I'm aware of that


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## Old Skier (Oct 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



View attachment 28376

Apparently left the cenotaph in a bit of a mess
		
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Hope those arrested are made to clean it up.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 15, 2019)

Why are ER demonstrators being arrested for assembling and demonstrating peacefully, and without disruption to others, in Trafalgar Square?

And what's with the Met Police ban on ER demonstrating anywhere in London?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50051279


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## SocketRocket (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Why are ER demonstrators being arrested for assembling and demonstrating peacefully, and without disruption to others, in Trafalgar Square?

And what's with the Met Police ban on ER demonstrating anywhere in London?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50051279

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Because the Police believe they are acting contrary to the Public Order Act.

*14 Imposing conditions on public assemblies.*
(1)If the senior police officer, having regard to the time or place at which and the circumstances in which any public assembly is being held or is intended to be held, reasonably believes thatâ€”
(a)it may result in serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community, or
(b)the purpose of the persons organising it is the intimidation of others with a view to compelling them not to do an act they have a right to do, or to do an act they have a right not to do,
he may give directions imposing on the persons organising or taking part in the assembly such conditions as to the place at which the assembly may be (or continue to be) held, its maximum duration, or the maximum number of persons who may constitute it, as appear to him necessary to prevent such disorder, damage, disruption or intimidation.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 15, 2019)

Demonstrating is part of our rights as a free country. However with that comes responsibility and if people are constantly bringing a city to a halt or are intimidating people going about their everyday life then the police have to step in. From what I have seen and heard the police have given ER a pretty decent run at this, tried to work with them etc but there has to be a line drawn at some point.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Why are ER demonstrators being arrested for assembling and demonstrating peacefully, and without disruption to others, in Trafalgar Square?

And what's with the Met Police ban on ER demonstrating anywhere in London?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50051279

Click to expand...

It wasnâ€™t that long ago we were the subject of terrorist attacks, and as far as I am aware there has been no change to the threat level.
Perhaps instead of castigating the police, you should perhaps consider that they have intelligence they donâ€™t want to make obviously known that there might be a terrorist cell planning something against what would be an easy target with the likelihood of many casualties.
Just think of the complaints made after that if it actually happened.


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## Dando (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Why are ER demonstrators being arrested for assembling and demonstrating peacefully, and without disruption to others, in Trafalgar Square?

And what's with the Met Police ban on ER demonstrating anywhere in London?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50051279

Click to expand...

might have something to do with gluing and chaining themselves to things. 
Personally I'd leave them where they were. a few days of being left in their own Mess would make some of them smell better


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Demonstrating is part of our rights as a free country. However with that comes responsibility and if people are constantly bringing a city to a halt or are intimidating people going about their everyday life then the police have to step in. From what I have seen and heard the police have given ER a pretty decent run at this, tried to work with them etc but there has to be a line drawn at some point.
		
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Absolutely - but the Met Police told ER protesters to go to Trafalgar Square or be arrested.  This they did.  What is it about a peaceful demonstration *in *Trafalgar Square that brings London to a halt or results in people being intimidated (unless they choose to walk amongst demonstrators and goad them).

And what is this about a blanket ban on ER demonstrations anywhere in London?  Is Extinction Rebellion now a proscribed and banned organisation?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 15, 2019)

Dando said:



			might have something to do with gluing and chaining themselves to things.
Personally I'd leave them where they were. a few days of being left in their own Mess would make some of them smell better
		
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Nice - do you know any of the demonstrators that makes you know that they smell?


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## Dando (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Absolutely - but the Met Police told ER protesters to go to Trafalgar Square or be arrested.  This they did.  What is it about a peaceful demonstration *in *Trafalgar Square that brings London to a halt or results in people being intimidated (unless they choose to walk amongst demonstrators and goad them).

And what is this about a blanket ban on ER demonstrations anywhere in London?  Is Extinction Rebellion now a proscribed and banned organisation?
		
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You might want to check your facts as  didnâ€™t go to Trafalgar Square - they popped up in the city causing issues, gluing themselves to things and the idiot founder tried to smash office windows- so much for your peaceful demonstrations


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Absolutely - but the Met Police told ER protesters to go to Trafalgar Square or be arrested.  This they did.  What is it about a peaceful demonstration *in *Trafalgar Square that brings London to a halt or results in people being intimidated (unless they choose to walk amongst demonstrators and goad them).

And what is this about a blanket ban on ER demonstrations anywhere in London?  Is Extinction Rebellion now a proscribed and banned organisation?
		
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Did they go where they were asked? I believe not.

How many protesters have been arrested over the last week? They are taking up huge amounts of resources,  police manpower, court time etc. It is a massive waste of police time and it can't be justified for this amount of time. They had to start restricting their protest areas and if they failed to follow that then the consequences are they are not allowed to protest. 

As I said earlier, with the ability to protest comes responsibility and they have not shown this.


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## Blue in Munich (Oct 15, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Absolutely - but the Met Police told ER protesters to go to Trafalgar Square or be arrested.  This they did.  What is it about a peaceful demonstration *in *Trafalgar Square that brings London to a halt or results in people being intimidated (unless they choose to walk amongst demonstrators and goad them).

And what is this about a blanket ban on ER demonstrations anywhere in London?  Is Extinction Rebellion now a proscribed and banned organisation?
		
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They are told where to go for the good of everybody.  One of their efforts blocked Westminster & Lambeth Bridges, thus taking out access to the A & E hospital just south of the river from central London.  I don't care how valid your cause may be, to do that is both irresponsible and reprehensible.  

But you carry on defending their right to protest as they wish, bugger anybody else's entitlement to emergency medical care.


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## bobmac (Oct 16, 2019)

This is what always seems to happen.
A small group want to bring the attention of the powers that be to their cause.
Full time protesters get involved and chaos is the result.
The whole point is lost and the debate which should be about the health and future of the planet turns into how smelly the protesters are.


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## Hobbit (Oct 16, 2019)

I have a mixed view on how obstructive a protest should be. Lets be honest, if the protest group occupy the corner of a far flung field, whispering gently they will be ignored and nothing will change. Equally, should they block a route to a hospital? I'm sure we can all suggest emotive reasons why the protest should be contained, just as we could suggest how much it needs to impact on society to 'force' through change.

If they block a road, fine. If they block a route to a hospital, no.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 16, 2019)

Peaceful Protest is whats acceptable in law and to most reasonable minded people.   Its fine for them to be seen so their protest is acknowledged, disrupting society and its services is going too far.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 16, 2019)

It seems that my previous post was taken as being pro-ER demo tactics and anti-MetPolice clamp-down.  In fact I simply asked a couple of questions...

As it happens, whilst I am supportive of the ER cause and supportive of those who might be willing to be arrested for their cause - I am not at all convinced that the length being gone to is acceptable - or indeed beneficial to their cause.  That said - the brief protest is quickly forgotten.


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 16, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			It seems that my previous post was taken as being pro-ER demo tactics and anti-MetPolice clamp-down.  In fact I simply asked a couple of questions...

As it happens, whilst I am supportive of the ER cause and supportive of those who might be willing to be arrested for their cause - I am not at all convinced that the length being gone to is acceptable - or indeed beneficial to their cause.  That said - the brief protest is quickly forgotten.
		
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But the damage done to buildings, statues and memorials isnâ€™t....


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## Dando (Oct 16, 2019)

I see Diane Abacus has decided to write (probably in crayon) to the Home Secretary about the great unwashed being banned from their "peaceful" protests.

apparently there is now a court case against the Met Police over the ban


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 16, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			But the damage down to buildings, statues and memorials isnâ€™t....
		
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No it isn't - you are quite right - and I think any form of vandalism counter-productive - because vandalism it is.


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## robinthehood (Oct 16, 2019)

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news...-guide-to-extinction-rebellion-20191016189798


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 16, 2019)

robinthehood said:



https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news...-guide-to-extinction-rebellion-20191016189798

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Don't forget that they also smell pretty darned awful...


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## SocketRocket (Oct 16, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Don't forget that they also smell pretty darned awful...
		
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Yes, kind of swampy.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 16, 2019)

robinthehood said:



https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news...-guide-to-extinction-rebellion-20191016189798

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At last some informed opinion. ðŸ˜


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## Fade and Die (Oct 17, 2019)

Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385

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Not sure I'm a fan of natural justice and surely giving them a kicking only adds to their "cause" but can see how the commuters must be getting mighty hacked off with these idiots disrupting their day every day at the moment


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## Lilyhawk (Oct 17, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385

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I would lie if I said that didn't bring a smile to my face.


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## Dando (Oct 17, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385

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Thatâ€™s cheered me up but no doubt the commuters will be the ones charged with an offence!


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## ger147 (Oct 17, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385

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Canning Town, a very wise choice for a protest...ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 17, 2019)

No support from me for action disrupting the underground/DLR in this way.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2019)

Odd target to go for. Surely the tube is the greenest method of moving a mass population around a capital city? I would have thought they would want to move people onto the tube system, not push them off it.


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## Hacker Khan (Oct 17, 2019)

As with just about everything at the moment, the people right on the fringes or movements/political parties are commanding the most exposure and leading the narrative. Much to the determent of the more coherent views of the majority of people in these movements.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 17, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385

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Sadly, that something of this nature would happen was as inevitable as the year is long. The commuting public is rather long suffering but surprisingly tolerant. But sooner or later, someone would feel they'd been pushed too far.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 17, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			As with just about everything at the moment, the people right on the fringes or movements/political parties are commanding the most exposure and leading the narrative. Much to the determent of the more coherent views of the majority of people in these movements.
		
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I think this is so true. The cause is honourable but people are going to stop listening to the message if they are behaving like this and disrupting people's jobs day after day.


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## Liverpoolphil (Oct 17, 2019)

As if commuters donâ€™t have enough to put up with in regards the poor standard the receive on the tube as it is - they now have to deal with them


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## Doon frae Troon (Oct 17, 2019)

Anyone know how badly injured the protester is.
It looked pretty brutal with many passengers kicking him.
I wonder if some of the posters on here would still be supportive if the guy had died.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 17, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I think this is so true. The cause is honourable but people are going to stop listening to the message if they are behaving like this and disrupting people's jobs day after day.
		
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Apparently an internal Extinction Rebellion poll found 70% of ER members were against this sort of action.


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## MegaSteve (Oct 17, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Anyone know how badly injured the protester is.
It looked pretty brutal with many passengers kicking him.
I wonder if some of the posters on here would still be supportive if the guy had died.
		
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Being a veteran of protest I can advise he'll be as happy as Larry... As he has achieved exactly what he desired... The few bumps/grazes will be seen as more than worth it...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Oct 17, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Anyone know how badly injured the protester is.
It looked pretty brutal with many passengers kicking him.
I wonder if some of the posters on here would still be supportive if the guy had died.
		
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Well - those doing the kicking (on both sides) have been video'd and so the law will take it's course if it is asked to.


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## backwoodsman (Oct 17, 2019)

Lord T has it - the underlying cause/ concern has merit but the message has to be delivered properly.  Folk may well have sympathy with the cause, but if the delivery is wrong people will stop listening..

I have some sympathy for the general cause, but equally had plenty of sympathy with the commuters - and was  content even up to the point of the protester being ejected from the roof of the train.  Beyond that was not acceptable. And I fear that sooner or later, the protest, or a protester, will push the wrong button on the wrong person, and there'll be a serious incident.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			Anyone know how badly injured the protester is.
It looked pretty brutal with many passengers kicking him.
I wonder if some of the posters on here would still be supportive if the guy had died.
		
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I dont agree with how ER are going about this and certainly dont condone their behaviour stopping people earning a crust but seeing him being kicked on the floor cannot be condoned. 

I'm all for dragging him off the train and giving him a slap but the continued kicking of him on the floor was bang out of order.


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## AmandaJR (Oct 17, 2019)

At first I watched and thought "don't blame you, get him off and get on with your daily lives which are being constantly disrupted" but then it got really nasty and shameful.


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			I dont agree with how ER are going about this and certainly dont condone their behaviour stopping people earning a crust but seeing him being kicked on the floor cannot be condoned.

I'm all for dragging him off the train and giving him a slap but the continued kicking of him on the floor was bang out of order.
		
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This and you have to hope that the police will act and arrest some of those involved for assault


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## Bunkermagnet (Oct 17, 2019)

I donâ€™t like the mass kicking, but by the same token if the protester had slipped and fallen down onto the tracks the others side then what?


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## patricks148 (Oct 17, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385

Click to expand...

Mob Justice, that will solve it


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## Orikoru (Oct 17, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Extinction Rebellion protesters get a pasting trying to stop East Londoners getting to work!ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚
welcome to the real world.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...rebellion-protester-from-top-of-tube-11837385

Click to expand...

Haha. If you want to get Londoners on your side, messing up the tubes must be pretty close to last on the list of ways. File that under 'ideas we didn't think through'.


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## Pathetic Shark (Oct 17, 2019)

And now the Extinction Rebellion mob go crying to the police asking for protection from the members of the public.   Beautiful.


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## Stuart_C (Oct 17, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			I donâ€™t like the mass kicking, but by the same token if the protester had slipped and fallen down onto the tracks the others side then what?
		
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He probably dies.


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## Tashyboy (Oct 17, 2019)

Outta interest, isn't the London ug electric. Isn't that as clean a way to travel. So why disrupt a clean travel system..if it is clean. They got off light with a pasting. Try climbing on top of a dirty diesel taxi. ðŸ‘


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## HomerJSimpson (Oct 17, 2019)

Stuart_C said:



			He probably dies.
		
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Has to be a pretty big chance. Isn't that the side with the live rail? At the end of the day, and not just with ER, you don't people making a protest and standing up for their beliefs, but as we've seen around the globe, when the public, police or government get involved and it breaks down into violence then nothing is to be gained for either side. I really think in this case ER should have seen the wider picture and for all the issues with the ancient infra-structure LU is actually an efficient service most of the time and so to disrupt that is immediately going to lose any support and sympathy but I don't condone what happened next


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## Fade and Die (Oct 17, 2019)

ger147 said:



			Canning Town, a very wise choice for a protest...ðŸ¤£ðŸ¤£
		
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Yes we grew up in Millwall and even we thought it was rough!ðŸ˜


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## MegaSteve (Oct 17, 2019)

Police bill, thus far, Â£16M...


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Has to be a pretty big chance. Isn't that the side with the live rail? At the end of the day, and not just with ER, you don't people making a protest and standing up for their beliefs, but as we've seen around the globe, when the public, police or government get involved and it breaks down into violence then nothing is to be gained for either side. I really think in this case ER should have seen the wider picture and for all the issues with the ancient infra-structure LU is actually an efficient service most of the time and so to disrupt that is immediately going to lose any support and sympathy but I don't condone what happened next
		
Click to expand...

ER are now just looking like anarchists to me, and have lost the moral high ground when it come to protesting.
As has been already said, to blockade one of the worlds most efficient mass transport systems like that is bonkers.....unless of course all electricity generation is bad.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 17, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Police bill, thus far, Â£16M...
		
Click to expand...

You want to see the number of police crew vans and other vehicles parked up just south of Lambeth bridge at 5.30am, from every part of the country too.


----------



## Lilyhawk (Oct 17, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			ER are now just looking like anarchists to me, and have lost the moral high ground when it come to protesting.
As has been already said, to blockage one of the worlds most efficient mass transport systems like that is bonkers.....unless of course all electricity generation is bad.
		
Click to expand...

Iâ€™m sure Emma Thompson can fly over the pond from the US and tell which is right and wrong and then fly back once again.


----------



## spongebob59 (Oct 17, 2019)

As will Lewis Hamilton give up his private jet and stop driving F1 cars


----------



## Hacker Khan (Oct 17, 2019)

Lilyhawk said:



			Iâ€™m sure Emma Thompson can fly over the pond from the US and tell which is right and wrong and then fly back once again.
		
Click to expand...

From Twitter.  â€œ_If you can't be an activist unless you have already somehow purged your whole life of fossil fuels then you'll have a movement of three people.â€ _


----------



## SocketRocket (Oct 17, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			From Twitter.  â€œ_If you can't be an activist unless you have already somehow purged your whole life of fossil fuels then you'll have a movement of three people.â€ _

Click to expand...

Tashys  creating a carbon equilibrium for them.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 17, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not sure I'm a fan of natural justice and surely giving them a kicking only adds to their "cause" but can see how the commuters must be getting mighty hacked off with these idiots disrupting their day every day at the moment
		
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the guy standing on the train started the kicking.!


----------



## Tashyboy (Oct 17, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Tashys  creating a carbon equilibrium for them.
		
Click to expand...

Dont know what that means but it's getting a like ðŸ˜Š


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 17, 2019)

What I love is the 100+ celebrity supporters of ER that have signed a letter that basically says "yes we're hypocrites due to our lifestyles but let's ignore that fact and focus on the issues that ER are raising". Do as I do not as I say springs to mind.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Oct 18, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			What I love is the 100+ celebrity supporters of ER that have signed a letter that basically says "yes we're hypocrites due to our lifestyles but let's ignore that fact and focus on the issues that ER are raising". Do as I do not as I say springs to mind.
		
Click to expand...

And a case of jumping on the next publicity bandwagon also comes to mind


----------



## Hacker Khan (Oct 18, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			What I love is the 100+ celebrity supporters of ER that have signed a letter that basically says "yes we're hypocrites due to our lifestyles but let's ignore that fact and focus on the issues that ER are raising". Do as I do not as I say springs to mind.
		
Click to expand...

The society we live in means it is virtually impossible to not use fossil fuels and to do things that are bad for the environment. We really need to move away from the concept that unless you live in a yurt in a commune recycling your own p**s to drink you can't have an opinion on the environment or that you can't point out that we are in dangerous environmental times. As there are some really powerful people out there who, for mostly financial reasons connected to their personal wealth, want you not to believe that. For example my young daughter has been greatly inspired by Greta and the ilk to make some changes as to be honest she is not a cynical old fart like the rest of us, always looking for a reason not to change their comfortable lifestyle.

Yes there is some hypocrisy there and they know it and have admitted it. But for the sake of the younger generation we should occasionally listen to the message and drop the snark.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 18, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			The society we live in means it is virtually impossible to not use fossil fuels and to do things that are bad for the environment. We really need to move away from the concept that unless you live in a yurt in a commune recycling your own p**s to drink you can't have an opinion on the environment or that you can't point out that we are in dangerous environmental times. As there are some really powerful people out there who, for mostly financial reasons connected to their personal wealth, want you not to believe that. For example my young daughter has been greatly inspired by Greta and the ilk to make some changes as to be honest she is not a cynical old fart like the rest of us, always looking for a reason not to change their comfortable lifestyle.

Yes there is some hypocrisy there and they know it and have admitted it. But for the sake of the younger generation we should occasionally listen to the message and drop the snark.
		
Click to expand...

Surely change to effective has to start at the top, especially with those in the financially privelleged position they live in. 
A great leader will lead their troops into battle, not push their troops in battle.
Or are we bring Animal Farm to life?


----------



## Lord Tyrion (Oct 18, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			The society we live in means it is virtually impossible to not use fossil fuels and to do things that are bad for the environment. We really need to move away from the concept that unless you live in a yurt in a commune recycling your own p**s to drink you can't have an opinion on the environment or that you can't point out that we are in dangerous environmental times. As there are some really powerful people out there who, for mostly financial reasons connected to their personal wealth, want you not to believe that. For example my young daughter has been greatly inspired by Greta and the ilk to make some changes as to be honest she is not a cynical old fart like the rest of us, always looking for a reason not to change their comfortable lifestyle.

Yes there is some hypocrisy there and they know it and have admitted it. But for the sake of the younger generation we should occasionally listen to the message and drop the snark.
		
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying but there is a smug level of superiority,  see also Lewis Hamilton, that really grates. Surely Emma Thompson tops the list. She goes into full emotional actor mode, turns on the tears, tells everyone else to change but she will carry on flying because films and award ceremonies are worth killing the planet for, okay I may have added the last part of the sentence. 

My point, and others, is that I don't expect everyone to go back 200yrs but those giving the message have to have a degree of credibility otherwise people will switch off and the very good message gets lost.


----------



## Hacker Khan (Oct 18, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I get what you are saying but there is a smug level of superiority,  see also Lewis Hamilton, that really grates. Surely Emma Thompson tops the list. She goes into full emotional actor mode, turns on the tears, tells everyone else to change but she will carry on flying because films and award ceremonies are worth killing the planet for, okay I may have added the last part of the sentence.

My point, and others, is that I don't expect everyone to go back 200yrs *but those giving the message have to have a degree of credibility* otherwise people will switch off and the very good message gets lost.
		
Click to expand...

Rightly or wrongly, 'celebrities' get a disproportionate amount of exposure and people listen to what they say.  And generally if you are a well known celebrity you will travel a bit and therefore need to use planes. It would be great if Swampy had 2 million Instagram followers and was being interviewed on BBC breakfast, but in the real world that does not happen. I totally get the hypocrisy in ER trying to disrupt public transport as something that will turn people off.  But switching off just because Emma Thompson uses planes to get around the world is not the best IMHO.


----------



## Lilyhawk (Oct 18, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			Rightly or wrongly, 'celebrities' get a disproportionate amount of exposure and people listen to what they say.  And generally if you are a well known celebrity you will travel a bit and therefore need to use planes. It would be great if Swampy had 2 million Instagram followers and was being interviewed on BBC breakfast, but in the real world that does not happen. I totally get the hypocrisy in ER trying to disrupt public transport as something that will turn people off.  But switching off just because Emma Thompson uses planes to get around the world is not the best IMHO.
		
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Multi millionaire celebrities should be able to enjoy life, travelling the world as their jobs require it. Them telling regular working people what to do and not to do to save the planet is just an extra bonus. We shall not forget that Emma Thompson actually "climate compensate" by planting trees. What a hero.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2019)

â€œLetâ€™s disrupt the general public on an electric train on public transportâ€

Someone in ER should have pointed out the obvious flaw in this plan.
It shows their judgement is not good .
The public may understand their cause ,but wonâ€™t understand this .
The violence was ott but was started by the guy standing on the train.


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 18, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			â€œLetâ€™s disrupt the general public on an electric train on public transportâ€

Someone in ER should have pointed out the obvious flaw in this plan.
It shows their judgement is not good .
The public may understand their cause ,but wonâ€™t understand this .
The violence was ott but was started by the guy standing on the train.
		
Click to expand...

And his lashing out when trying to be got down from the roof of the train.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			And his lashing out when trying to be got down from the roof of the train.
		
Click to expand...

Yes that was my point he kicked the guy trying to get on the train.


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## Dando (Oct 18, 2019)

I see the great unwashed are now blocking Oxford Circus


----------



## SocketRocket (Oct 18, 2019)

Dando said:



			I see the great unwashed are now blocking Oxford Circus
		
Click to expand...

Get Boris's water cannon out of mothballs and hose them down with swamp water. Or if you want to be more humane add a bit of angostura bitters.


----------



## larmen (Oct 18, 2019)

Dando said:



			I see the great unwashed are now blocking Oxford Circus
		
Click to expand...

In my limited experience this is always blocked anyway. I used to pass there daily about 18 years ago, but like all non tourists this is a place to be avoided.


----------



## Dando (Oct 18, 2019)

larmen said:



			In my limited experience this is always blocked anyway. I used to pass there daily about 18 years ago, but like all non tourists this is a place to be avoided.
		
Click to expand...

So them breaking the law is ok


----------



## Bunkermagnet (Oct 18, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Get Boris's water cannon out of mothballs and hose them down with swamp water. Or if you want to be more humane add a bit of angostura bitters.
		
Click to expand...

They went to the scrap yard........good use of public money there then


----------



## Blue in Munich (Oct 18, 2019)

larmen said:



			In my limited experience this is always blocked anyway. I used to pass there daily about 18 years ago, but like all non tourists this is a place to be avoided.
		
Click to expand...

Mrs BiM used to work there, you are spot on re avoiding it.


----------



## SocketRocket (Oct 18, 2019)

Bunkermagnet said:



			They went to the scrap yard........good use of public money there then
		
Click to expand...

  Scrapping them was a waste, could be handy now.


----------



## williamalex1 (Oct 18, 2019)

Why isn't there more filters being applied/ invented, something like Catalytic converter technology adapted for use on other pollution outlets,  power stations, aircraft, lorries, cows etc.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 18, 2019)

williamalex1 said:



			Why isn't there more filters being applied/ invented, something like Catalytic converter technology adapted for use on other pollution outlets,  power stations, aircraft, lorries, cows etc. 

Click to expand...

I thought power stations already had carbon capture technology. Not sure there's much you can do about cows but if you'd like to invest in my new start up company "Cow Nappies" then I'm sure we can negotiate a good deal.


----------



## williamalex1 (Oct 18, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			I thought power stations already had carbon capture technology. Not sure there's much you can do about cows but if you'd like to invest in my new fart up company "Cow Nappies" then I'm sure we can negotiate a good deal.
		
Click to expand...

OK, sorted that for you lol. send me a carbon copy of the contract by airmail


----------



## fundy (Oct 18, 2019)

Hacker Khan said:



			Rightly or wrongly, 'celebrities' get a disproportionate amount of exposure and people listen to what they say.  And generally if you are a well known celebrity you will travel a bit and therefore need to use planes. It would be great if Swampy had 2 million Instagram followers and was being interviewed on BBC breakfast, but in the real world that does not happen. I totally get the hypocrisy in ER trying to disrupt public transport as something that will turn people off.  But switching off just because Emma Thompson uses planes to get around the world is not the best IMHO.
		
Click to expand...


why do they need to fly half way round the world to protest? why cant they protest where they are?


----------



## Lilyhawk (Oct 18, 2019)

fundy said:



			why do they need to fly half way round the world to protest? why cant they protest where they are?
		
Click to expand...

They can, but they wouldnâ€™t be building their â€œbrandâ€ as well then. And as we can tell, people are still falling for it.


----------



## bobmac (Oct 19, 2019)

If someone decides not to fly to somewhere, the plane will still go, the pollution will still happen.
If, however a person decides to buy another diesel/petrol car, they are making a choice.
To not choose an electric/hybrid car is to choose to continue polluting the air everyone breathes.
And to say they are too expensive and dont have the range, that argument will soon not be the case............

*Jaguar XF 2.0d I4D Diesel 180ps Auto R-Sport*
2019, 10 miles
0-60 7.9 ses
136mph
CO2 ....135g/km
First year annual tax...Â£855
*Full tank...Â£96 ish
Â£49,645 (including tax)*


*Tesla Model 3 Standard Range*
2019, 8 miles
0-60   5.3 sec
140mph
CO2 .....0
First year annual tax...Â£0.00
258 mile range (329 miles long range model)
*Full tank...Â£12* (home charge)
Battery guarantee ....100,000 miles
*Â£44,995 (including tax)*


And for shallower pockets.......

*MG ZS 44.5kWh Excite EV *
2019
0-60   8.5 sec
85mph
CO2.....0
First year annual tax...Â£0.00
231 mile range
*Â£21,995*

And for deeper pockets
*Tesla Model 3 Performance *(4 door saloon)
2019
*0-60  3.2 (hyper-car territory )*
162mph
CO2 ...0
329 mile range
*Â£57.999*


----------



## fundy (Oct 19, 2019)

And for those who dont spend close to 20k+ on a car?


----------



## bobmac (Oct 19, 2019)

fundy said:



			And for those who dont spend close to 20k+ on a car?
		
Click to expand...

That will be me then 
I'm looking at this.........
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...Nearly New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&page=1


----------



## fundy (Oct 19, 2019)

bobmac said:



			That will be me then 
I'm looking at this.........
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...Nearly New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&page=1

Click to expand...


Seems decent apart from the near Â£100pcm battery rental cost


----------



## bobmac (Oct 19, 2019)

fundy said:



			Seems decent apart from the near Â£100pcm battery rental cost
		
Click to expand...

I noticed that, so I changed it.


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 19, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Scrapping them was a waste, could be handy now.
		
Click to expand...

Why do you feel escalation is the answer... As a Londoner I'd rather not be witness to the scenes from Paris, seen recently, or currently on view from Barcelona...


----------



## bobmac (Oct 19, 2019)

And for those of you who can't charge an electric car at home.......

_''More than 2,400 EV charging bays will be installed across 600 Tesco Extra and Superstore car parks, with customers able to utilise a standard *7kW charger for free,* or a rapid 50kW charger for a small cost in line with the market rate.''_ 

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news...-pod-point-unite-to-deliver-2-400-ev-chargers


----------



## Lazkir (Oct 19, 2019)

I've never had to charge mine anywhere else but home in the four years I've had it.

It is nice to know that I have options if I need them though.


----------



## SocketRocket (Oct 19, 2019)

bobmac said:



			If someone decides not to fly to somewhere, the plane will still go, the pollution will still happen.
If, however a person decides to buy another diesel/petrol car, they are making a choice.
To not choose an electric/hybrid car is to choose to continue polluting the air everyone breathes.
And to say they are too expensive and dont have the range, that argument will soon not be the case............

*Jaguar XF 2.0d I4D Diesel 180ps Auto R-Sport*
2019, 10 miles
0-60 7.9 ses
136mph
CO2 ....135g/km
First year annual tax...Â£855
*Full tank...Â£96 ish
Â£49,645 (including tax)*


*Tesla Model 3 Standard Range*
2019, 8 miles
0-60   5.3 sec
140mph
CO2 .....0
First year annual tax...Â£0.00
258 mile range (329 miles long range model)
*Full tank...Â£12* (home charge)
Battery guarantee ....100,000 miles
*Â£44,995 (including tax)*


And for shallower pockets.......

*MG ZS 44.5kWh Excite EV *
2019
0-60   8.5 sec
85mph
CO2.....0
First year annual tax...Â£0.00
231 mile range
*Â£21,995*

And for deeper pockets
*Tesla Model 3 Performance *(4 door saloon)
2019
*0-60  3.2 (hyper-car territory )*
162mph
CO2 ...0
329 mile range
*Â£57.999*

Click to expand...

Go for it Bob, they sound excellent value for the average household.  Wouldn't it be better to get on the bus.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2019)

Lazkir said:



			I've never had to charge mine anywhere else but home in the four years I've had it.

It is nice to know that I have options if I need them though. 

Click to expand...

Whatâ€™s the longest journey you have done in it?


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 19, 2019)

Until they come up with an electric car that can tow further than the end of the road then I'm not even going to bother looking at one.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 19, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			Until they come up with an electric car that can tow further than the end of the road then I'm not even going to bother looking at one.
		
Click to expand...

Plus carbon neutral by whatever year ??
Electric lorries to haul all the goods to shops etc.
Not going to happen.


----------



## USER1999 (Oct 19, 2019)

Until they come up with one that is as well built as my car, and makes the same noise, as my car, I am out. It's not just about performance.


----------



## ColchesterFC (Oct 19, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Plus carbon neutral by whatever year ??
Electric lorries to haul all the goods to shops etc.
Not going to happen.
		
Click to expand...

I wonder how many trees they'll need to plant to offset the carbon generated by getting my fairtrade, free range avocado from Mexico to the shelves of my local Waitrose?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			I wonder how many trees they'll need to plant to offset the carbon generated by getting my fairtrade, free range avocado from Mexico to the shelves of my local Waitrose?
		
Click to expand...

I didnâ€™t know Avocados were free range. Lol.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			I didnâ€™t know Avocados were free range. Lol.
		
Click to expand...

The Mexican avocado is; a very special beast, not your run of the mill avocado that one.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Blue in Munich said:



			The Mexican avocado is; a very special beast, not your run of the mill avocado that one. 

Click to expand...

How do they catch them?
Itâ€™s late I am off to bed.


----------



## bobmac (Oct 20, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			Go for it Bob, they sound excellent value for the average household.  Wouldn't it be better to get on the bus.
		
Click to expand...

One of the main arguments against the electric car is that they are too expensive.
I was just showing that they are coming down in price and you can get better performance from an electric car for a lot less money.
And as battery technology continues to improve, the cost of the cars will continue to drop.
And as gas and oil run out, it will become more expensive to pollute the air.




clubchamp98 said:



			Plus carbon neutral by whatever year ??
Electric lorries to haul all the goods to shops etc.
*Not going to happen.*

Click to expand...

Early days but it is happening 

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/daf-electric-lorry-delivered/ 



clubchamp98 said:



			Whatâ€™s the longest journey you have done in it?
		
Click to expand...

As long as its further than your (wifes/kids) bladder range, your fine.
The new Nissan Leaf 239 miles
Audi - 237
Hyundai Kona - 279 miles 
Mercedes EQ C - 260 miles 
Tesla 3 - 310 miles

Not so glamorous .....
https://www.commercialfleet.org/new...se-truck-to-be-trialled-in-the-city-of-london 

And for the kids........
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...m-vans-poised-to-go-electric-diesel-pollution 

I think in 5 years, it will be difficult to find a good reason to buy a new internal combustion engine (ICE) car and that can only be good news for the environment, especially as more and more clean, cheap and renewable energy is being used to charge your car.

And in case anyone missed it.........
Do any supermarkets currently give away FREE petrol?

_More than 2,400 EV charging bays will be installed across 600 Tesco Extra and Superstore car parks, with customers able to utilise a standard _*7kW charger for free,*


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

bobmac said:



			One of the main arguments against the electric car is that they are too expensive.
I was just showing that they are coming down in price and you can get better performance from an electric car for a lot less money.
And as battery technology continues to improve, the cost of the cars will continue to drop.
And as gas and oil run out, it will become more expensive to pollute the air.




Early days but it is happening

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/daf-electric-lorry-delivered/



As long as its further than your (wifes/kids) bladder range, your fine.
The new Nissan Leaf 239 miles
Audi - 237
Hyundai Kona - 279 miles
Mercedes EQ C - 260 miles
Tesla 3 - 310 miles

Not so glamorous .....
https://www.commercialfleet.org/new...se-truck-to-be-trialled-in-the-city-of-london

And for the kids........
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...m-vans-poised-to-go-electric-diesel-pollution

I think in 5 years, it will be difficult to find a good reason to buy a new internal combustion engine (ICE) car and that can only be good news for the environment, especially as more and more clean, cheap and renewable energy is being used to charge your car.

And in case anyone missed it.........
Do any supermarkets currently give away FREE petrol?

_More than 2,400 EV charging bays will be installed across 600 Tesco Extra and Superstore car parks, with customers able to utilise a standard _*7kW charger for free,*

Click to expand...

No dought it will eventually but how long will it take to charge a lorry with a 50 ton capacity .
If it comes to Dover it prob wonâ€™t have the range to get to the north west/east in one charge.
Down time for these vehicles is lost money.
These will be the problem not cars imo. But rail should be used more for freight.

I am thinking of getting a EV myself but the cost for a nice one is just to high , was looking at a e golf Â£30.000.
I go to Glasgow quite often and an EV wonâ€™t go there and back with one charge when it can do that 400 plus miles,I will get one.


----------



## bobmac (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			No dought it will eventually but how long will it take to charge a lorry with a 50 ton capacity .
If it comes to Dover it prob wonâ€™t have the range to get to the north west/east in one charge.
Down time for these vehicles is lost money.
These will be the problem not cars imo. But rail should be used more for freight.

I am thinking of getting a EV myself but the cost for a nice one is just to high , was looking at a e golf Â£30.000.
		
Click to expand...

As I said, its early days, maybe lorries will be hydrogen powered in the future.

If I had Â£30,000 to spend on a car, I'd be looking at this,

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...rchad=New&postcode=ng348xf&radius=1500&page=1 

Please note.......*FREE SUPERCHARGING for life*


----------



## Lazkir (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Whatâ€™s the longest journey you have done in it?
		
Click to expand...


About 85 mile round trip, anything bigger than that and I use my diesel car.
My van is one of the early electric vehicles, so range isn't great but it's more than enough for my day to day use.
It's all about planning and being sensible.


----------



## MegaSteve (Oct 20, 2019)

Rather than simply change motive power greater efforts should be put into encouraging folk out of their own individual 'boxes'... Invest in mass public transport systems, for urban areas, then make it impossible for people not to use them...


----------



## IanM (Oct 20, 2019)

Does the Central Line reach Newport? 

Joking apart.  So much of the Green narrative comes from folk who rarely venture outside cities.  

Needs some major change before alternatives are viable for where I live


----------



## bobmac (Oct 20, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Rather than simply change motive power greater efforts should be put into encouraging folk out of their own individual 'boxes'... Invest in mass public transport systems, for urban areas, then make it impossible for people not to use them...
		
Click to expand...

I think the old farts will still want their own car, especially in rural areas but in the city, I think the next generation might just hire one as and when they need one.
I'm not sure how true it is but some say that 90% of cars aren't used 90% of the time.


----------



## Blue in Munich (Oct 20, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I think the old farts will still want their own car, especially in rural areas but in the city, I think the next generation might just hire one as and when they need one.
*I'm not sure how true it is but some say that 90% of cars aren't used 90% of the time.*







Click to expand...

Very true I'd say; probably more likely 95% of cars 95% of the time.  Mine certainly hits that assessment.

Not sure how much the Zip car idea will take off; my two main concerns would be could I get one when I need it, & what state did the previous hirer leave it in...?


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

Lazkir said:



			About 85 mile round trip, anything bigger than that and I use my diesel car.
My van is one of the early electric vehicles, so range isn't great but it's more than enough for my day to day use.
It's all about planning and being sensible.
		
Click to expand...

That would do me I only go the club and back ,shopping etc.
Only concern is I have family in Scotland and go see them quite often.
I might hire one or 48 hr test drive as I would like one.


----------



## clubchamp98 (Oct 20, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Rather than simply change motive power greater efforts should be put into encouraging folk out of their own individual 'boxes'... Invest in mass public transport systems, for urban areas, then make it impossible for people not to use them...
		
Click to expand...

You would have a climate ER glued to your train though.
But yes I agree.
Got my bus pass two years ago itâ€™s fantastic I just leave my car at home.
But no government will finance it.


----------



## bobmac (Oct 20, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			That would do me I only go the club and back ,shopping etc.
*Only concern is I have family in Scotland and go see them quite often*.
I might hire one or 48 hr test drive as I would like one.
		
Click to expand...

You may be surprised to know that Scotland has had electricity for ages


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 21, 2019)

bobmac said:



			You may be surprised to know that Scotland has had electricity for ages  

Click to expand...

Yes but the golf has a range of 144 miles and I am sure Scotland is further from Liverpool than that.
When it can do it in one charge maybe I will pull the trigger.

Saw a price on Telly by Angela Rippon about EV .
Most of the power outlets would not fit the Jaguar I pace they had .
So Jaguar gave the guy his money back because the app for the car said all power outlets were compatible but there not.
Why would you make different plugs for the cars ?
Surely a standard fitting plug is a must.
Have heard lots of things like this, cars parked in the charging bays but not using them.
Itâ€™s all a bit hap hazard.


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2019)

An interesting thing we are seeing at work with plug in EVs using a standard 13A plug, is that the sockets are burning out in just a few months. They really do need a dedicated charging station.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			An interesting thing we are seeing at work with plug in EVs using a standard 13A plug, is that the sockets are burning out in just a few months. They really do need a dedicated charging station.
		
Click to expand...

That is quite interesting and also disturbing. Is it the charging cable connection that is burning out or the socket it is plugged in to?

My lease car is due for renewal next year. The govt have worked the BIK system to make diesels hugely unattractive so a plug in hybrid is looking attractive, depending on the lease cost. I do semi regular long journeys to visit family and ideally I would plug in at the other end to load up my 30-40 mile electric range. It would be disappointing if that was not possible, I am not going to burn out my mums plug sockets! It will not stop me from getting one but it would be a negative that I would need to consider.


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## bobmac (Oct 22, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Yes but the golf has a range of 144 miles and I am sure Scotland is further from Liverpool than that.
When it can do it in one charge maybe I will pull the trigger.

Saw a price on Telly by Angela Rippon about EV .
Most of the power outlets would not fit the Jaguar I pace they had .
So Jaguar gave the guy his money back because the app for the car said all power outlets were compatible but there not.
Why would you make different plugs for the cars ?
Surely a standard fitting plug is a must.
Have heard lots of things like this, cars parked in the charging bays but not using them.
*Itâ€™s all a bit hap hazard*.
		
Click to expand...

You're right, because it's all still quite new.
The other problem is different charging companies needing different accounts and apps to pay for your electricity.
It's a bit like VHS and BETA MAX video recorders when they first came out.
I do believe these are all teething problems just like when the petrol/diesel cars first came out.

The main problems I hear a lot are
Too expensive 
Not enough range
Not enough chargers 
Batteries only last 2-3 years

Electric vehicle (EV) manufacturers are well aware of these and are working hard to solve these problems.
It just needs a bit of patience


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## Hobbit (Oct 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			That is quite interesting and also disturbing. Is it the charging cable connection that is burning out or the socket it is plugged in to?

My lease car is due for renewal next year. The govt have worked the BIK system to make diesels hugely unattractive so a plug in hybrid is looking attractive, depending on the lease cost. I do semi regular long journeys to visit family and ideally I would plug in at the other end to load up my 30-40 mile electric range. It would be disappointing if that was not possible, I am not going to burn out my mums plug sockets! It will not stop me from getting one but it would be a negative that I would need to consider.
		
Click to expand...

Might be worth looking at a petrol hybrid Neil. I'm more than happy with our Kia Niro. The MPG is better than I expected and no need to find charging points. Bearing in mind you might need to do the odd run through to Bath, and potentially last minute, I'm not sure I'd go for the current plug-in hybrids because of the range.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2019)

bobmac said:



			You're right, because it's all still quite new.
The other problem is different charging companies needing different accounts and apps to pay for your electricity.
It's a bit like VHS and BETA MAX video recorders when they first came out.
I do believe these are all teething problems just like when the petrol/diesel cars first came out.

The main problems I hear a lot are
Too expensive
Not enough range
Not enough chargers
Batteries only last 2-3 years

Electric vehicle (EV) manufacturers are well aware of these and are working hard to solve these problems.
It just needs a bit of patience
		
Click to expand...

Bob, did you read this yesterday? https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/21/ex-navy-engineer-built-car-battery-1500-mile-range-10956749/

I know we are all looking for the miracle product but let's hope it has some legs.

Incidentally, I am definitely in the bracket of worrying about the first 3 points. I do not worry about the 4th now, I thought that had been resolved? Step by step..........


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## bobmac (Oct 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bob, did you read this yesterday? https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/21/ex-navy-engineer-built-car-battery-1500-mile-range-10956749/

I know we are all looking for the miracle product but let's hope it has some legs.

Incidentally, I am definitely in the bracket of worrying about the first 3 points. I do not worry about the 4th now, I thought that had been resolved? Step by step..........
		
Click to expand...

I did read it and it looks very promising.
So does this though.......
https://observer.com/2019/09/tesla-elon-musk-million-mile-electric-car-battery/

Whoever comes up with a safe, long lasting multiple charging battery cell first will make a fortune cause they're ging to need a lot of them.

And you're right about battery life, they will now probably outlast the car.

https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2019)

Hobbit said:



			Might be worth looking at a petrol hybrid Neil. I'm more than happy with our Kia Niro. The MPG is better than I expected and no need to find charging points. Bearing in mind you might need to do the odd run through to Bath, and potentially last minute, I'm not sure I'd go for the current plug-in hybrids because of the range.
		
Click to expand...

I have a sad mans spreadsheet on the go already, covering plug ins and non plug in hybrids. I am not ready for pure electric yet, I do too many journeys of 200 + miles in one hit, fully loaded and I don't want 'range anxiety' or have to plan charging stop offs. This is particularly key as the journey for me often involves trips through the Lakes, Cumbria etc where charging points will be even more rare and being stuck more scary. 

The cars I am looking at that are plug in are still hybrids but should have a pure electric range of 35-40 miles. This could get me to work and back without the engine kicking in, if the range is accurate. It would also get me to the cinema, airport, Newcastle, golf club, Metro Centre etc and back without the engine firing up. I would lose on the long journeys when a little engine is moving a big car but hopefully the balance would be in my favour and it is obviously kinder. The two I am looking at in this area are the Passat GTE and the Skoda Superb E I think they are calling it. I would prefer the Superb, I have one now and love it, the dealer is a good one and is handily located for me. It all comes down to the lease cost.

If the plug ins are too pricey then I will be looking at the standard hybrids as you suggest (they are also on my spreadsheet ). Whatever happens, it will not be a diesel (30%-32% BIK )


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## bobmac (Oct 22, 2019)

Are you factoring in the maintenance costs/servicing of EVs?


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## Lazkir (Oct 22, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			An interesting thing we are seeing at work with plug in EVs using a standard 13A plug, is that the sockets are burning out in just a few months. They really do need a dedicated charging station.
		
Click to expand...

I have a dedicated 3.5Kw wall charger, but I quite often use my 13a plug in cable as I can set it on a timer to use the cheap electricity.
One thing I did do before I started using this was to swap the socket out for a good quality MK socket and make sure it was correctly installed (tight connections).
Having said that, if the sockets are burning out then it's almost definitely down to a poorly fitted or cheap socket as all the switching is done by the adaptor that's part of the cable. All sockets should be able to handle a steady 13a supply without any trouble, if they can't then they're either crap or faulty.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Are you factoring in the maintenance costs/servicing of EVs?


Click to expand...

I will look at that nearer the time when I actually start getting the quotes in. It is a good point you make and part of the reason I have a spreadsheet on the go. I can just add columns to it showing additional costs and then have an end column showing the total 3yr cost. It is easy to cheat yourself and show a lower monthly cost but there are hidden costs that you can conveniently 'not see'. You need to see the whole package. 

I get on well with the person in charge of leasing at my Skoda dealer, he is very straight, no lies and so I will be having a good chat with him nearer the time covering all aspects.


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## bobmac (Oct 22, 2019)

*Cost of installing a dedicated home charger*
_A home charging point, fully installed, costs from Â£279 with the government OLEV grant.
_

_Electric car drivers get a *Â£500 grant* for purchasing and installing a home charger with the OLEV grant._
_Once installed, you only pay for the electricity you use to charge._
_The typical electricity rate in the UK is about *14p per kWh*, while on Economy 7 tariffs the typical overnight electricity rate in the UK is *8p per kWh*._
https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/charging-electric-car-at-home


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## bobmac (Oct 22, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I will look at that nearer the time when I actually start getting the quotes in.
		
Click to expand...

I can save you the trouble.
I bottle of screenwash every 6 months/6000 miles


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 22, 2019)

bobmac said:



			I can save you the trouble.
I bottle of screenwash every 6 months/6000 miles 

Click to expand...

I did a quick check, the Passat needs a service every 20k miles or 2 yrs. As it happens my Superb is every 18k. I do 21k a year so it will not be much different in my case. I am aware though that there are far fewer parts, wear and tear is less, so costs should be lower.


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## ger147 (Oct 22, 2019)

bobmac said:



*Cost of installing a dedicated home charger*
_A home charging point, fully installed, costs from Â£279 with the government OLEV grant.
_

_Electric car drivers get a *Â£500 grant* for purchasing and installing a home charger with the OLEV grant._
_Once installed, you only pay for the electricity you use to charge._
_The typical electricity rate in the UK is about *14p per kWh*, while on Economy 7 tariffs the typical overnight electricity rate in the UK is *8p per kWh*._
https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/charging-electric-car-at-home

Click to expand...

That's the biggest single issue for me that will have the government trying to prise the keys for my diesel from my cold, dead hands i.e. I don't have a driveway so can't charge my car at home.

So a fully electric car is of no use to me whatsoever. I'm a 70 mile round trip to the office and back so some of the modern electric cars would only last 2 or 3 days then I'm gubbed.

Could well look at a hybrid next time around but they have some way to go to catch up with my trusty diesel.


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2019)

Lazkir said:



			Having said that, if the sockets are burning out then it's almost definitely down to a poorly fitted or cheap socket as all the switching is done by the adaptor that's part of the cable. All sockets should be able to handle a steady 13a supply without any trouble, if they can't then they're either crap or faulty.
		
Click to expand...

Well, I bow to your superior knowledge. I will just go with some requests from electrical whole salers who have asked if my company can design a 13A socket that won't burn out when charging EVs.

Oh, and the fact that I regularly replace sockets at work that I pull 13A 24/7 through. I have 4 load banks running permanently, and no socket I have ever used, from any manufacturer lasts more than 6 months. All correctly tightened with a torque driver.

At 14A continuous load, I am frying 20A cooker switches too.


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## IanM (Oct 22, 2019)

There are six middle aged blokes sat in the conference room with me today.... were just discussing electric cars.   Several pros and cons floated about, no one currently has an electric or hybrid vehicle ....

One guy worked for Vodafone and had one of the first mobile phones.... a daft heavy thing with a shoulder strap, about 30 mins battery life and hardly any coverage!   "Those will never catch on!" he was told....

I'm sure the same will be true with alternative fuel vehicles, technology marches on...................


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## Lazkir (Oct 22, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Well, I bow to your superior knowledge. I will just go with some requests from electrical whole salers who have asked if my company can design a 13A socket that won't burn out when charging EVs.

Oh, and the fact that I regularly replace sockets at work that I pull 13A 24/7 through. I have 4 load banks running permanently, and no socket I have ever used, from any manufacturer lasts more than 6 months. All correctly tightened with a torque driver.

At 14A continuous load, I am frying 20A cooker switches too.
		
Click to expand...

As an electrical engineer, I can honestly say I've never had the experience you have. But since you've already acknowledged my superior knowledge we'll leave it there. Very decent of you old bean.


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2019)

Lazkir said:



			As an electrical engineer, I can honestly say I've never had the experience you have. But since you've already acknowledged my superior knowledge we'll leave it there. Very decent of you old bean. 

Click to expand...

Absolutely. I am merely a monkey with 19 years experience designing sockets for the electrical wholesaler market. Wtf would I know about sockets.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 22, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			Well, I bow to your superior knowledge. I will just go with some requests from electrical whole salers who have asked if my company can design a 13A socket that won't burn out when charging EVs.

Oh, and the fact that I regularly replace sockets at work that I pull 13A 24/7 through. I have 4 load banks running permanently, and no socket I have ever used, from any manufacturer lasts more than 6 months. All correctly tightened with a torque driver.

At 14A continuous load, I am frying 20A cooker switches too.
		
Click to expand...

You seriously need to get an EICR done on your premises. It seems as if the installation is being overloaded.


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## ColchesterFC (Oct 22, 2019)

bobmac said:



			The main problems I hear a lot are
Too expensive 
Not enough range
Not enough chargers 
Batteries only last 2-3 years

Electric vehicle (EV) manufacturers are well aware of these and are working hard to solve these problems.
It just needs a bit of patience
		
Click to expand...

So you're saying it's not worth getting one at the minute as the manufacturers are selling products with known problems?


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			You seriously need to get an EICR done on your premises. It seems as if the installation is being overloaded.
		
Click to expand...

No, I work on a 32A bench. This is work that my company does every day. If we are selling stuff, it gets tested for a long time, at maximum, and sometimes beyond maximum loading. When trading standards come knocking, nothing beats test data. We have years worth of data.


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## Fade and Die (Oct 22, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			No, I work on a 32A bench. This is work that my company does every day. If we are selling stuff, it gets tested for a long time, at maximum, and sometimes beyond maximum loading. When trading standards come knocking, nothing beats test data. We have years worth of data.
		
Click to expand...

Just fit these and you will be ok....

http://www.art-deco-emporium.co.uk/sc-mk-2gs0-f01-ivy


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## USER1999 (Oct 22, 2019)

Fade and Die said:



			Just fit these and you will be ok....

http://www.art-deco-emporium.co.uk/sc-mk-2gs0-f01-ivy

Click to expand...

Nice, love a bit of retro.


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## bobmac (Oct 23, 2019)

ColchesterFC said:



			So you're saying it's not worth getting one at the minute as the manufacturers are selling products with known problems?
		
Click to expand...

They are only problems for those who need more range or can't charge at home or won't buy second hand or need to tow a caravan etc.
It's a bit like saying if you have 5 kids, don't buy a one bedroom house. Buy what you need.

In the near future, all of these problems I believe will be fixed. 
eg.
With improvements in batteries, range will improve,
Cost of cars, new and second hand will continue to become more affordable 
Charging will get quicker
More charging points
Charging points at work will increase. 

Running costs/maintenance are a fraction of petrol or diesel cars.

As a result, the air you and your children breathe will improve.

The downside is it will take time.
Yesterday, I went to the BMW showroom in Lincoln to book my car in for a drivers airbag recall and out of all the new and nearly new cars on display, there was only one electric car, a second hand i3.
More patience required.


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## chrisd (Oct 23, 2019)

bobmac said:



			They are only problems for those who need more range or can't charge at home or won't buy second hand or need to tow a caravan etc.
It's a bit like saying if you have 5 kids, don't buy a one bedroom house. Buy what you need.

In the near future, all of these problems I believe will be fixed. 
eg.
With improvements in batteries, range will improve,
Cost of cars, new and second hand will continue to become more affordable 
Charging will get quicker
More charging points
Charging points at work will increase. 

Running costs/maintenance are a fraction of petrol or diesel cars.

As a result, the air you and your children breathe will improve.

The downside is it will take time.
Yesterday, I went to the BMW showroom in Lincoln to book my car in for a drivers airbag recall and out of all the new and nearly new cars on display, there was only one electric car, a second hand i3.
More patience required.
		
Click to expand...

We have a 2nd hand Nissan Leaf. It cost no more than any other 2nd hand car of its age. We had a free charger installed at home and we charge it most nights for little money. My wife drives it almost everyday and its capable of about a 90 mile round trip - any more then we use my petrol car. There has been no noticeable drop off of the battery in the last 2 years even though the car is getting to about 4 years old. Range anxiety is obviously an issue but we've never run out of battery and never charged it away from home.


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## bobmac (Oct 23, 2019)

chrisd said:



			We have a 2nd hand Nissan Leaf. It cost no more than any other 2nd hand car of its age. We had a free charger installed at home and we charge it most nights for little money. My wife drives it almost everyday and its capable of about a 90 mile round trip - any more then we use my petrol car. There has been no noticeable drop off of the battery in the last 2 years even though the car is getting to about 4 years old. Range anxiety is obviously an issue but we've never run out of battery and never charged it away from home.
		
Click to expand...

Happy days.
Now sell your petrol car and get a Tesla


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## chrisd (Oct 23, 2019)

bobmac said:



			Happy days.
Now sell your petrol car and get a Tesla  

Click to expand...

If I had the money!


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## IanM (Oct 23, 2019)

....or I did really short journeys


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## spongebob59 (Oct 23, 2019)

So far the  policing costs for the demonstrations by the great unwashed is coming in at 37 million and you've got the clean up costs to factor in too.

a b out time the organisers were billed for these.


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## SocketRocket (Oct 23, 2019)

How would people in a big apartment block manage charging. Lets say 35 apartments with 70 cars.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 23, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			How would people in a big apartment block manage charging. Lets say 35 apartments with 70 cars.
		
Click to expand...

Would there be parking space for 70 cars? That would unlikely based on apartment blocks I see in my town. If we assume each apartment gets 1 space, marked and numbered, then you would need a charger for each one. 

You would also have x number of visitor spaces  each needing a charger.

If anyone had an extra car then they would park off site as they would now.

Basically, we need a lot of chargers to be installed. The gamble on electric had better be right as an awful lot of money is going to have to be spent setting this all up.


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 23, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			How would people in a big apartment block manage charging. Lets say 35 apartments with 70 cars.
		
Click to expand...

This goes back to the very early posts .
They would need to rip up almost every pavement in the country for houses that donâ€™t have a driveway.


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## bobmac (Oct 24, 2019)

SocketRocket said:



			How would people in a big apartment block manage charging. Lets say 35 apartments with 70 cars.
		
Click to expand...

They would use the charging points at work or at the supermarket or in the car parks or at the golf club or at the gym etc.
A few stats for you...........
30 mins of charging will last most people for a week and that time continues to drop.
There are currently 8422 petrol stations in the UK
There are 9895 places where chargers are available and rising every month.
There are over 27,300 charging points in the UK and increasing by 500 every month.
Agreed, it wont happen overnight but it will happen.
Battery range will continue to rise, charging time will continue to fall and the cost of buying the cars will soon be the same as petrol/diesel cars.
And as anyone who has driven an electric golf buggy knows, they are fun to drive.




Lord Tyrion said:



			Basically, we need a lot of chargers to be installed. The gamble on electric had better be right as an awful lot of money is going to have to be spent setting this all up.
		
Click to expand...

I dont think it will take that much, electricity is a readily available and you only need to add the charging points to car parks and petrol stations.
I wonder if any golf clubs have chargers installed in their car parks yet.


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## Lord Tyrion (Oct 24, 2019)

Bob, I hope you are right. One of the issues to get over is anxiety and if people can not charge at home, the apt example, and rely on elsewhere I am not sure that will change. People want to roll up to a charging point and charge straight away. We don't want to see all chargers full and with no idea of when the owners will return. Now I accept that attitude may have to change but because petrol and diesel are so easy to refuel that will take a mindset change. We have to adapt but it will take time to accept.

I have not seen a charge in any golf club yet, good question.


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## Lazkir (Oct 24, 2019)

Definitely a mindset change required, but it's happened before and it will (have to) happen again.
I do foresee people working much closer to home in the future, as well as car ownership being much less. It won't come without a fight though, people view their cars like some people view their homes and children.


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## IanM (Oct 24, 2019)

Lazkir said:



			Definitely a mindset change required, but it's happened before and it will (have to) happen again.
I do foresee people working much closer to home in the future, as well as car ownership being much less. It won't come without a fight though, people view their cars like some people view their homes and children.
		
Click to expand...


.....are you a townie?


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## MikeB (Oct 24, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bob, I hope you are right. One of the issues to get over is anxiety and if people can not charge at home, the apt example, and rely on elsewhere I am not sure that will change. People want to roll up to a charging point and charge straight away. We don't want to see all chargers full and with no idea of when the owners will return. Now I accept that attitude may have to change but because petrol and diesel are so easy to refuel that will take a mindset change. We have to adapt but it will take time to accept.

I have not seen a charge in any golf club yet, good question.
		
Click to expand...

 They have charging points at The Berkshire, it would be interesting to see how many clubs have them or plan to install any.


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## stefanovic (Oct 24, 2019)

'Next time you meet a climate change denier, tell them to take a trip to Venus. I will pay the fare.' 
That was a quote from Stephen Hawking who pointed out that Venus was once habitable and like Earth.

We might as well start building a generation ship now for the inevitable outcome that due to climate change our descendants will have to evacuate this planet, should no suitable place be found on a planet or moon in our solar system.


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## IanM (Oct 24, 2019)

stefanovic said:



			'Next time you meet a climate change denier, tell them to take a trip to Venus. I will pay the fare.'
		
Click to expand...

Lot of lorries and cars previously on Venus then?     (if you take the point)


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## stefanovic (Oct 24, 2019)

IanM said:



			Lot of lorries and cars previously on Venus then?     (if you take the point)
		
Click to expand...

You don't take the point. 
The Solar System is not a stable place. It never has been.
We think of the Earth as eternal in time, but it has been subject to big hits from asteroids and comets and possibly even planet sized objects.
Climate change has occurred before. The Earth was once like a snowball. The difference this time is that it is man made change.
What's happening now is far, far worse than you think.
Even Mars was once a blue planet and could have supported life.
Earth is just a pale blue dot in the wide cosmos (which is about 92 billion light years across). 
Forget about gods or aliens rescuing us.
We are its custodians and we need to protect it at all costs.
If that means a vegetarian diet, stopping flying and getting out of our cars and shrinking our economies, we have to do it.


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## IanM (Oct 24, 2019)

Ho Hum.... the point was differentiating the arguments of the instability of the Solar System versus "man made climate change".... so maybe it wasn't me that missed a point...... 

(and, if you read my post,  I didn't express a view on it)


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## Lazkir (Oct 24, 2019)

IanM said:



			.....are you a townie?  

Click to expand...

Guilty as charged! 

I think I see your point though, easy for me to say when I don't have to travel 20+ miles to work.


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## IanM (Oct 24, 2019)

Where I live, if you don't get in a car, you don't get!!  (when tech catches up, more enviro friendly alternatives might be available!)


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## 2blue (Oct 24, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Bob, I hope you are right. One of the issues to get over is anxiety and if people can not charge at home, the apt example, and rely on elsewhere I am not sure that will change. People want to roll up to a charging point and charge straight away. We don't want to see all chargers full and with no idea of when the owners will return. Now I accept that attitude may have to change but because petrol and diesel are so easy to refuel that will take a mindset change. We have to adapt but it will take time to accept.

*I have not seen a charge in any golf club yet*, good question.
		
Click to expand...

2 arrived at ours some 6 months ago.....  & frequently in use. That's at WikeRidge GC (Leeds Golf Center)....  'Home of Modern Golf' you nar'se


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## clubchamp98 (Oct 24, 2019)

2blue said:



			2 arrived at ours some 6 months ago.....  & frequently in use. That's at WikeRidge GC (Leeds Golf Center)....  'Home of Modern Golf' you nar'se 

Click to expand...

Thatâ€™s part of the problem for me ,and I know itâ€™s only a start.
Putting Two in a car park that might hold 150 / 200 cars dosnt Show enough forward thinking.
If they put 50 in the members might buy EVs.
But itâ€™s economics.


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## bobmac (Oct 24, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Thatâ€™s part of the problem for me ,and I know itâ€™s only a start.
Putting Two in a car park that might hold 150 / 200 cars dosnt Show enough forward thinking.
If they put 50 in the members might buy EVs.
But itâ€™s economics.
		
Click to expand...

I'm sure they will be able to add more as demand increases.
Then visitors see them and want them at their home course.
Then you'll have some at your local swimming pool, cinema, restaurants, Lidls....... anywhere you might park your car for 30mins or more.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			...
And what is this about a blanket ban on ER demonstrations anywhere in London?  Is Extinction Rebellion now a proscribed and banned organisation?
		
Click to expand...

And so the High Court finds for Extinction Rebellion in their claim that the Met Police London-wide ban was unlawful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50316561


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## Dando (Nov 6, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			And so the High Court finds for Extinction Rebellion in their claim that the Met Police London-wide ban was unlawful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50316561

Click to expand...

so now the great unwashed will be free to cause more problems with their "peaceful protests"


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## MegaSteve (Nov 6, 2019)

XR reputed to be putting up a candidate to run against Boris at the GE... Really hoping therefore, the rumour about him seeking election elsewhere is correct... Otherwise trips to nearby Uxbridge will probably become a real pain in the run up to the election...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			XR reputed to be putting up a candidate to run against Boris at the GE... Really hoping therefore, the rumour about him seeking election elsewhere is correct... Otherwise trips to nearby Uxbridge will probably become a real pain in the run up to the election...
		
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David Lidington's constituency?


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## MegaSteve (Nov 6, 2019)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			David Lidington's constituency?
		
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Rumoured, in these parts, Boris is just going to step over the constituency line and contest Ruislip... Hopefully not! Judging by Phil the Fragger's, recent post,  it's also a probability Boris is looking at Lidington's constituency High Wycombe...


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 6, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Rumoured, in these parts, Boris is just going to step over the constituency line and contest Ruislip... Hopefully not! Judging by Phil the Fragger's, recent post,  it's also a probability Boris is looking at Lidington's constituency High Wycombe...
		
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Appropriate given Johnson's liking for birds and the many Red Kite raptors in that area that he can keep a lookout for.


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## spongebob59 (Nov 6, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Rumoured, in these parts, Boris is just going to step over the constituency line and contest Ruislip... Hopefully not! Judging by Phil the Fragger's, recent post,  it's also a probability Boris is looking at Lidington's constituency High Wycombe...
		
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 or 7oaks


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## MegaSteve (Nov 6, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			or 7oaks
		
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That makes more sense as it gets him well away from HS2 for which he gets a lot of stick for from his current constituents...


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## Colonel Bogey (Nov 7, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Rumoured, in these parts, Boris is just going to step over the constituency line and contest Ruislip... Hopefully not! Judging by Phil the Fragger's, recent post,  it's also a probability Boris is looking at Lidington's constituency High Wycombe...
		
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Bit of a smog ridden hell hole. But very blue !


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## robinthehood (Nov 7, 2019)

Potentially many claims for compensation against the Met for thier handling of the rebellion protests.


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## Dando (Nov 7, 2019)

robinthehood said:



			Potentially many claims for compensation against the Met for thier handling of the rebellion protests.
		
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on top of the millions of Â£'s they've already forked out keeping these tossers in check during their "peaceful" protest.

maybe the public should sue the soap dodgers for the inconvenience of being stopped going about their daily business


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## clubchamp98 (Nov 7, 2019)

Dando said:



			on top of the millions of Â£'s they've already forked out keeping these tossers in check during their "peaceful" protest.

maybe the public should sue the soap dodgers for the inconvenience of being stopped going about their daily business
		
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Send them the Â£24 million bill


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## Tashyboy (Nov 7, 2019)

clubchamp98 said:



			Send them the Â£24 million bill
		
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Award them a bar of soap. With instructions on how to use it.


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## spongebob59 (Nov 7, 2019)

Tashyboy said:



			Award them a bar of soap. With instructions on how to use it.
		
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 One that's good at removing red dye might help too.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 7, 2019)

That rules out purple shampoo ðŸ¤”


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## spongebob59 (Dec 4, 2019)

Apparently have glued them selves to the lib dems bus.


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## IanM (Dec 4, 2019)

spongebob59 said:



			Apparently have glued them selves to the lib dems bus.
		
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## spongebob59 (Dec 4, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1202172919939514370


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 4, 2019)

spongebob59 said:




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1202172919939514370

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Pretty clueless decision. The LibDems are running two buses, one electric, one diesel for longer journeys. Why would you stick yourself to the electric one? Clowns.


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