# Arsenal Looking Good



## JCW (Jul 11, 2014)

With A Sanchez now a gunner and Debuchy and his way and another German to play DM , The Gunners are looking strong and will add a CB and goalie and they will push on this year now the 9 year monkey has left ................................If they led the PL last they could well go on to win it .......................EYF


----------



## c1973 (Jul 11, 2014)

Good signing Sanchez, don't know enough about the other fella to comment. The EPL could be interesting this coming season, a few teams in the mix I reckon.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			With A Sanchez now a gunner and Debuchy and his way and another German to play DM , The Gunners are looking strong and will add a CB and goalie and they will push on this year now the 9 year monkey has left ................................If they led the PL last they could well go on to win it .......................EYF
		
Click to expand...

Arsenal looking likely to improve their starting 11. Still need major luck for league though as squad lacks the depth of City. Debuchy is no better than a cheap replacement of Sagna. Sanchez is good but unless arsenal play 2-2-6 not sure where all the attacking midfielder will play?


----------



## pbrown7582 (Jul 11, 2014)

Didn't resign fabregas as they didn't need any more attacking midfielders but now sign Sanchez


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2014)

pbrown7582 said:



			Didn't resign fabregas as they didn't need any more attacking midfielders but now sign Sanchez 

Click to expand...

theyre hardly the same type of player! very little in arsenals squad resembling sanchez, expect he probably plays up top under Wenger too


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

fundy said:



			theyre hardly the same type of player! very little in arsenals squad resembling sanchez, expect he probably plays up top under Wenger too
		
Click to expand...

I think wenger sees him as a Suarez type of player. Although Sanchez said in his press release they'd discussed Many positions so would expect him to play somewhere behind or alongside giroud.


----------



## philly169 (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Debuchy is no better than a cheap replacement of Sagna.
		
Click to expand...

He kept Sagna out of the France world cup squad..



pbrown7582 said:



			Didn't resign fabregas as they didn't need any more attacking midfielders but now sign Sanchez 

Click to expand...

I would have liked to have had Fab back, but I think Sanchez will be a better player.. Fabregas chose to leave to Barcelona, but it didn't work out. I thought Arsene was going to take him back but he stood firm. Chelsea have got a good player, not sure Jose will get the best out of him though.


----------



## philly169 (Jul 11, 2014)

I'd like to see a move to a 4-1-3-2, with ramsey in the DM, Sanchez, Ozil Ox AM and Giroud and Walcott up top. I know it leaves no place for Wilshere, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool all the time. I think Ramsey is a better player.


----------



## fundy (Jul 11, 2014)

philly169 said:



			I'd like to see a move to a 4-1-3-2, with ramsey in the DM, Sanchez, Ozil Ox AM and Giroud and Walcott up top. I know it leaves no place for Wilshere, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool all the time. I think Ramsey is a better player.
		
Click to expand...

Ramsey would be wasted in the DM role imo, his forward runs and goals when fit were the best part of our game last season and most of that would be lost in the DM role. Also his forward runs etc brought the best out of Ozil, no coincidence Ozil looked worse when he had no one running decent lines in front of him (when ramsey/walcott were injured)


----------



## cookelad (Jul 11, 2014)

Starting to look like Arsene and the board were telling the truth all along, odds were slashed last night on Khedira (spelling) joining Arsenal as well, maybe the shackles really are off!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

philly169 said:



			He kept Sagna out of the France world cup squad..



I would have liked to have had Fab back, but I think Sanchez will be a better player.. Fabregas chose to leave to Barcelona, but it didn't work out. I thought Arsene was going to take him back but he stood firm. Chelsea have got a good player, not sure Jose will get the best out of him though.
		
Click to expand...

And Luke shaw kept cole out of the England squad but I'd say Cole is still currently better.

Either way I don't see a rb making much difference to your season. Sanchez could. Still think khedira will be they key.


----------



## JCW (Jul 11, 2014)

Arsenal are way ahead of the others in the league , they are spending the club money from the new boot deal and stadium revenue and only Man U have a bigger stadium but they have lots of owners debts and are spending money they not got and with no champions league will earn less , I wont go into chelski and city as Arsenal have 2 guys who own most of the club who have lots of money but unlike those 2 the club dont need it , our owners can walk away and the club will still be ok and thats down to wenger , the other 2 if the onwers walk away they be another Leeds , Portsmouth waiting to happen , The future is looking North London Red .........................EYG


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			Arsenal are way ahead of the others in the league , they are spending the club money from the new boot deal and stadium revenue and only Man U have a bigger stadium but they have lots of owners debts and are spending money they not got and with no champions league will earn less , I wont go into chelski and city as Arsenal have 2 guys who own most of the club who have lots of money but unlike those 2 the club dont need it , our owners can walk away and the club will still be ok and thats down to wenger , the other 2 if the onwers walk away they be another Leeds , Portsmouth waiting to happen , The future is looking North London Red .........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

whilst i I agree that arsenal are in a good position. Manu UTD are currently in no trouble whatsoever, their 'debt' is effectively a mortgage, which they are comfortably servicing and have massively reduced. Whilst city and Chelsea may struggle if owners walk away. People would be fighting over Man UTD as they are one of the biggest sports franchises on the planet.

I have no idea where you get arsenal being way ahead from. If owners walked away (roman been there a decade) maybe you'd catch up a bit. But one trophy in 9 seasons (whatever reasons/excuses you use). Still keep you firmly in the second tier of teams. You're just fortunate your based in London.


----------



## JCW (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			whilst i I agree that arsenal are in a good position. Manu UTD are currently in no trouble whatsoever, their 'debt' is effectively a mortgage, which they are comfortably servicing and have massively reduced. Whilst city and Chelsea may struggle if owners walk away. People would be fighting over Man UTD as they are one of the biggest sports franchises on the planet.

I have no idea where you get arsenal being way ahead from. If owners walked away (roman been there a decade) maybe you'd catch up a bit. But one trophy in 9 seasons (whatever reasons/excuses you use). Still keep you firmly in the second tier of teams. You're just fortunate your based in London.
		
Click to expand...


Arsenal are a top club and with the spending they are doing the top players will look to join them because of that , next in will be a German DM player because of Arsenals german connections , I well aware of chelski and I also know there is trouble brewing in Russia , how the mighty can fall , he could walk out of chelski anytime as he has won everything , whats left , maybe he take up fishing , Big head Jose is running out of ideas , Real got shot of him as he did not give them what they wanted , he won nothink last year and a repeat this year and he be history and as for city , they got lucky winning the league last year as Rodgers blew it big style and handed the title to City , whatever takes place it be an interesting season and Arsenal are not 2nd tier anymore .........................EYG


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

JCW said:



			Arsenal are a top club and with the spending they are doing the top players will look to join them because of that , next in will be a German DM player because of Arsenals german connections , I well aware of chelski and I also know there is trouble brewing in Russia , how the mighty can fall , he could walk out of chelski anytime as he has won everything , whats left , maybe he take up fishing , Big head Jose is running out of ideas , Real got shot of him as he did not give them what they wanted , he won nothink last year and a repeat this year and he be history and as for city , they got lucky winning the league last year as Rodgers blew it big style and handed the title to City , whatever takes place it be an interesting season and Arsenal are not 2nd tier anymore .........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

When arsenal win the league, and beat a big team in the league or Europe maybe I'll start to believe. Until then, I'll hold my breathe. I would still out arsenal below the top tier of players. So far they have signed one player who barca were happy to use as a paperweight. 

Roman has been there for long enough to have seen baron seasons in the past and still outs his hand in his pocket. Chelsea were one good striker from the league last year. Their squad currently, without anymore additions is better than yours as shown by the league finish. Mourinho has a record that stands up against anyone's in world football, surely as an arsenal fan you can understand how a year or 8 doesn't make a manager useless?

having read your posts recently you clearly think arsenal are back to their best, I'd like to see it as the more competitive the premiership the better. But the fact is arsenal got DESTROYED by every team that is of a similar size or bigger last season and have currently added one attacker.

re arsenals German connections, is that the German one (per), the pole or the Turk?


----------



## freddielong (Jul 11, 2014)

This summer was always going to be the moment when the years of relative ration and harvest would finally be rewarded. Back around 2000, when this vision was being formed, the wider landscape in 2014 could only be guessed at. 

 But if you had told Wenger then that Liverpool, Everton and Tottenham would still be nowhere near sorting their own stadium issues, he would have been entitled to suppose that Arsenal and Manchester Unitedâ€™s dominance would be assured. 

 Manchester City and Chelsea, with close to Â£1 billion of benefactor investment apiece, have fundamentally altered the picture but Arsenal still now find themselves in an envious position compared to most of their competitors.

 On its own, the Â£150 million five-year Puma deal provides between Â£22 million and Â£26 million of extra money each and every year. The new Emirates shirt sponsorship deal does roughly the same. Together with other smaller commercial partnerships, the difference in the clubâ€™s commercial income next year compared with last year will be around Â£70 million. And the important point to remember is that this is not some sort of one-off payment but a yearly change that will be fully available for transfer fees and wages each and every year. It means that, from 2014-15, Arsenal will become one of the select few clubs in Europe to generate more than Â£300 million a year.

 There is considerable internal pride at this achievement and it was not hard to read between the lines when Ivan Gazidis, the chief executive, addressed the media. "I think it is a validation of the things we are doing right,â€ he said. â€œOur club has walked an independent path, standing on our own two feet, and thinking long term about that progression.â€ 

He went on to specifically add that Arsenal had got to where they are â€œwithout state funding or the help of a benefactorâ€ but through the work of people who â€œloveâ€ the club. â€œWhen we do achieve success it will be incredibly meaningful to everyone on this journey,â€ said Gazidis.

 There are still some thorns in this emerging garden of roses. In theory, Arsenal should be ideally placed to benefit from Uefaâ€™s new Financial Fair-Play regulations and the â€˜break evenâ€™ principle that clubs should not spend more than they naturally earn. In practice, Deloitteâ€™s new league table of the biggest earners in football very clearly signalled how Manchester City and Paris St Germain will seek to underpin their vast spending with sponsorship deals that would appear to have a close connection to their respective owners. 

 City have gone from generating Â£18 million in commercial income in 2008-9 to Â£166.9 million in 2012-13. This is already well ahead of more historically famous and successful clubs, such as Arsenal and Liverpool, and only marginally behind 
 Manchester United, Real Madrid and Barcelona. PSG have gone even further and now outstrip every club in world football for sponsorship revenue. These deals will be evaluated for â€˜fair valueâ€™ by Uefa and, during lunch this week with Michel Platini, it can be safely assumed that Gazidis was clearly outlining his â€œhealthy scepticsâ€ view of FFP.

 Yet even if that battle is lost, the wider narrative is clear. Arsenalâ€™s patience and long-term planning â€“ qualities not readily associated with modern football - are now beginning to reap their reward. Most significant of all was the confirmation that Wenger will sign a new contract that is likely to run until the end of the 2016-17 season. This was not so certain even five months ago when Arsenal were losing on the opening day of the season to Aston Villa and Wenger was being disrespectfully told by some fans that â€œyou donâ€™t know what youâ€™re doingâ€.

Having been the principal architect of Arsenalâ€™s vision â€“ and also the human shield for all the frustration over the clubâ€™s lack of trophies amid regular top four finishes since 2005 â€“ he has earned the chance to lead the club into this new phase. And what happens next, now that Wenger has the opportunity to regularly supplement the development of young players with expensive proven talent like Mesut Ozil, will decide his final standing in the pantheon of British footballâ€™s most influential managers.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2014)

â€œHe has chosen to go to Arsenal for whatever means and that will be down to him,â€ he added.
â€œHe doesnâ€™t realise what he has missed by not coming to Liverpool; the passion and the power that comes with playing for LFC, and the worldwide recognition that he would have.

Phil Thompson on Sanchez. What a tool.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

freddielong said:



			This summer was always going to be the moment when the years of relative ration and harvest would finally be rewarded. Back around 2000, when this vision was being formed, the wider landscape in 2014 could only be guessed at. 

 But if you had told Wenger then that Liverpool, Everton and Tottenham would still be nowhere near sorting their own stadium issues, he would have been entitled to suppose that Arsenal and Manchester Unitedâ€™s dominance would be assured. 

 Manchester City and Chelsea, with close to Â£1 billion of benefactor investment apiece, have fundamentally altered the picture but Arsenal still now find themselves in an envious position compared to most of their competitors.

 On its own, the Â£150 million five-year Puma deal provides between Â£22 million and Â£26 million of extra money each and every year. The new Emirates shirt sponsorship deal does roughly the same. Together with other smaller commercial partnerships, the difference in the clubâ€™s commercial income next year compared with last year will be around Â£70 million. And the important point to remember is that this is not some sort of one-off payment but a yearly change that will be fully available for transfer fees and wages each and every year. It means that, from 2014-15, Arsenal will become one of the select few clubs in Europe to generate more than Â£300 million a year.

 There is considerable internal pride at this achievement and it was not hard to read between the lines when Ivan Gazidis, the chief executive, addressed the media. "I think it is a validation of the things we are doing right,â€ he said. â€œOur club has walked an independent path, standing on our own two feet, and thinking long term about that progression.â€ 

He went on to specifically add that Arsenal had got to where they are â€œwithout state funding or the help of a benefactorâ€ but through the work of people who â€œloveâ€ the club. â€œWhen we do achieve success it will be incredibly meaningful to everyone on this journey,â€ said Gazidis.

 There are still some thorns in this emerging garden of roses. In theory, Arsenal should be ideally placed to benefit from Uefaâ€™s new Financial Fair-Play regulations and the â€˜break evenâ€™ principle that clubs should not spend more than they naturally earn. In practice, Deloitteâ€™s new league table of the biggest earners in football very clearly signalled how Manchester City and Paris St Germain will seek to underpin their vast spending with sponsorship deals that would appear to have a close connection to their respective owners. 

 City have gone from generating Â£18 million in commercial income in 2008-9 to Â£166.9 million in 2012-13. This is already well ahead of more historically famous and successful clubs, such as Arsenal and Liverpool, and only marginally behind 
 Manchester United, Real Madrid and Barcelona. PSG have gone even further and now outstrip every club in world football for sponsorship revenue. These deals will be evaluated for â€˜fair valueâ€™ by Uefa and, during lunch this week with Michel Platini, it can be safely assumed that Gazidis was clearly outlining his â€œhealthy scepticsâ€ view of FFP.

 Yet even if that battle is lost, the wider narrative is clear. Arsenalâ€™s patience and long-term planning â€“ qualities not readily associated with modern football - are now beginning to reap their reward. Most significant of all was the confirmation that Wenger will sign a new contract that is likely to run until the end of the 2016-17 season. This was not so certain even five months ago when Arsenal were losing on the opening day of the season to Aston Villa and Wenger was being disrespectfully told by some fans that â€œyou donâ€™t know what youâ€™re doingâ€.

Having been the principal architect of Arsenalâ€™s vision â€“ and also the human shield for all the frustration over the clubâ€™s lack of trophies amid regular top four finishes since 2005 â€“ he has earned the chance to lead the club into this new phase. And what happens next, now that Wenger has the opportunity to regularly supplement the development of young players with expensive proven talent like Mesut Ozil, will decide his final standing in the pantheon of British footballâ€™s most influential managers.
		
Click to expand...

Where'd you copy and paste that from? All that proves it that arsenal are in a stabile financial place. Money whilst helping guarantees nothing. Chelsea and City were still less successful than UTD in last decade, even with the extra money. I'd imagine arsenals top 4 will be more certain than the last few seasons. But unless wenger abandons his principles, will the money get spent?


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			â€œHe has chosen to go to Arsenal for whatever means and that will be down to him,â€ he added.
â€œHe doesnâ€™t realise what he has missed by not coming to Liverpool; the passion and the power that comes with playing for LFC, and the worldwide recognition that he would have.

Phil Thompson on Sanchez. What a tool.
		
Click to expand...

I liked how, "Liverpool made Suarez and Torres stars". Suarez poor pool back on the map with his performances getting cl footy again. And Torres played for Spain during their golden era.

whilst all parties helped one another out, it's laughable him trying to give all the credit to Liverpool. But he's probably the most biased pundit on sky, and is the reason why pundits no longer cover their own teams.


----------



## freddielong (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Where'd you copy and paste that from? All that proves it that arsenal are in a stabile financial place. Money whilst helping guarantees nothing. Chelsea and City were still less successful than UTD in last decade, even with the extra money. I'd imagine arsenals top 4 will be more certain than the last few seasons. But unless wenger abandons his principles, will the money get spent?
		
Click to expand...


Arsene has always spent money when he could, he bought players like Wiltord, Pires Overmars Henry Reyes etc so I have no doubt Arsene will spend the money, I only pasted it cause I thought that it explained that the money we have now is not a one off it is increased revenue and will be available year on year (the question was asked in an earlier post).


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Arsene has always spent money when he could, he bought players like Wiltord, Pires Overmars Henry Reyes etc so I have no doubt Arsene will spend the money, I only pasted it cause I thought that it explained that the money we have now is not a one off it is increased revenue and will be available year on year (the question was asked in an earlier post).
		
Click to expand...

I know he spent in the past. But in recent years he himself has always said there was money but he wouldn't overspend. I know part of that was probably a defence mechanism. 

As I've stated, I hope that arsenal progress as I like a competitive league. But a lot of arsenal fans seem to believe that this extra funding will be a guarantee. Like teams have just been holding a space for you when the money flows.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I liked how, "Liverpool made Suarez and Torres stars". Suarez poor pool back on the map with his performances getting cl footy again. And Torres played for Spain during their golden era.

whilst all parties helped one another out, it's laughable him trying to give all the credit to Liverpool. But he's probably the most biased pundit on sky, and is the reason why pundits no longer cover their own teams.
		
Click to expand...

Suarez actually had a better goal per game ratio for Ajax than Liverpool,obviously in a weaker league. But I'd hardly say Liverpool made him. 
I certainly think he's done more for Liverpool than them for him.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Suarez actually had a better goal per game ratio for Ajax than Liverpool,obviously in a weaker league. But I'd hardly say Liverpool made him. 
I certainly think he's done more for Liverpool than them for him.
		
Click to expand...

I agree, of course if Liverpool hadn't signed him then his career would have been less noticed down the publicity the premierleague. As they say, no publicity is bad publicity. Yet hiw many people knew of his first bite before Liverpool signed him.


----------



## c1973 (Jul 11, 2014)

freddielong said:



			This summer was always going to be the moment when the years of relative ration and harvest would finally be rewarded. Back around 2000, when this vision was being formed, the wider landscape in 2014 could only be guessed at. 

 But if you had told Wenger then that Liverpool, Everton and Tottenham would still be nowhere near sorting their own stadium issues, he would have been entitled to suppose that Arsenal and Manchester Unitedâ€™s dominance would be assured. 

 Manchester City and Chelsea, with close to Â£1 billion of benefactor investment apiece, have fundamentally altered the picture but Arsenal still now find themselves in an envious position compared to most of their competitors.

 On its own, the Â£150 million five-year Puma deal provides between Â£22 million and Â£26 million of extra money each and every year. The new Emirates shirt sponsorship deal does roughly the same. Together with other smaller commercial partnerships, the difference in the clubâ€™s commercial income next year compared with last year will be around Â£70 million. And the important point to remember is that this is not some sort of one-off payment but a yearly change that will be fully available for transfer fees and wages each and every year. It means that, from 2014-15, Arsenal will become one of the select few clubs in Europe to generate more than Â£300 million a year.

 There is considerable internal pride at this achievement and it was not hard to read between the lines when Ivan Gazidis, the chief executive, addressed the media. "I think it is a validation of the things we are doing right,â€ he said. â€œOur club has walked an independent path, standing on our own two feet, and thinking long term about that progression.â€ 

He went on to specifically add that Arsenal had got to where they are â€œwithout state funding or the help of a benefactorâ€ but through the work of people who â€œloveâ€ the club. â€œWhen we do achieve success it will be incredibly meaningful to everyone on this journey,â€ said Gazidis.

 There are still some thorns in this emerging garden of roses. In theory, Arsenal should be ideally placed to benefit from Uefaâ€™s new Financial Fair-Play regulations and the â€˜break evenâ€™ principle that clubs should not spend more than they naturally earn. In practice, Deloitteâ€™s new league table of the biggest earners in football very clearly signalled how Manchester City and Paris St Germain will seek to underpin their vast spending with sponsorship deals that would appear to have a close connection to their respective owners. 

 City have gone from generating Â£18 million in commercial income in 2008-9 to Â£166.9 million in 2012-13. This is already well ahead of more historically famous and successful clubs, such as Arsenal and Liverpool, and only marginally behind 
 Manchester United, Real Madrid and Barcelona. PSG have gone even further and now outstrip every club in world football for sponsorship revenue. These deals will be evaluated for â€˜fair valueâ€™ by Uefa and, during lunch this week with Michel Platini, it can be safely assumed that Gazidis was clearly outlining his â€œhealthy scepticsâ€ view of FFP.

 Yet even if that battle is lost, the wider narrative is clear. Arsenalâ€™s patience and long-term planning â€“ qualities not readily associated with modern football - are now beginning to reap their reward. Most significant of all was the confirmation that Wenger will sign a new contract that is likely to run until the end of the 2016-17 season. This was not so certain even five months ago when Arsenal were losing on the opening day of the season to Aston Villa and Wenger was being disrespectfully told by some fans that â€œyou donâ€™t know what youâ€™re doingâ€.

Having been the principal architect of Arsenalâ€™s vision â€“ and also the human shield for all the frustration over the clubâ€™s lack of trophies amid regular top four finishes since 2005 â€“ he has earned the chance to lead the club into this new phase. And what happens next, now that Wenger has the opportunity to regularly supplement the development of young players with expensive proven talent like Mesut Ozil, will decide his final standing in the pantheon of British footballâ€™s most influential managers.
		
Click to expand...


A good post that. I actually never realised what Arsenal had been doing these past few years (my interest in footy was only reignited a year or two ago).  How much debt have they been paying off for the stadium etc? It does make Wengers achievements look pretty good (regardless of whether he could/should have done better I the transfer market or not).


----------



## freddielong (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I know he spent in the past. But in recent years he himself has always said there was money but he wouldn't overspend. I know part of that was probably a defence mechanism. 

As I've stated, I hope that arsenal progress as I like a competitive league. But a lot of arsenal fans seem to believe that this extra funding will be a guarantee. Like teams have just been holding a space for you when the money flows.
		
Click to expand...

Nothing is guaranteed in football that is why I think Arsene should be hailed a genius for what he has done at Arsenal and I find the fact that some people actually doubt him absurd, to have kept Arsenal where they are especially when the kids didn't work out and Robin Van Pursestrings sulked off to find a plan B with a net spend over the previous 7 seasons of 0 (IMHO no other manager in world football could have done it)

Arsenal really are approaching the financial promised land and I am glad Arsene is the guy to benefit from his hard work and loyalty


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree, of course if Liverpool hadn't signed him then his career would have been less noticed down the publicity the premierleague. As they say, no publicity is bad publicity. Yet hiw many people knew of his first bite before Liverpool signed him.
		
Click to expand...

Someone else would have signed him.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Someone else would have signed him.
		
Click to expand...

Maybe, either way they've bith benefitted from the deals. Liverpool have improved their league position and he's improved his performances in a tougher league.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 11, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Maybe, either way they've bith benefitted from the deals. Liverpool have improved their league position and he's improved his performances in a tougher league.
		
Click to expand...

Correct. Plus Liverpool have made a good profit & Suarez gets a dream move to Barca.


----------



## freddielong (Jul 11, 2014)

c1973 said:



			A good post that. I actually never realised what Arsenal had been doing these past few years (my interest in footy was only reignited a year or two ago).  How much debt have they been paying off for the stadium etc? It does make Wengers achievements look pretty good (regardless of whether he could/should have done better I the transfer market or not).
		
Click to expand...


The debt over all, which was at about Â£450mil, in 2008 and is now closer to Â£250m? Though all that is left are fixed fees now that cannot be paid off early. Our debt was so large that at one point two thirds of our payments were on interest, and not on the debt itself, the club had to ensure it had enough money to dig itself out of any trouble. 


Also with regards to the amount of money Arsenal held in reserve and whether or not the plans could of been brought forward, huge chunks of it were not actually available to the club to spend on transfers. 

Â£30m owed to other teams.
Â£25m as a debt servicing reserve. 
Â£10m on player criterea related fees.
Â£30m contingent for not attaining CL (debatable how necessary this was though tbh). Further to that its been reported that we had performance related penalties from sponsors, further lowering revenues had CL not been attained. 

 Not only that Swiss ramble catagorically stated that without player sales and property development, Arsenal made some losses up to Â£31m a season, and seeing as how Gazidis and Arsenal have been in the driving seat for championing FFP, it was imperative that we upheld such a stringent model if ever there was a hope in hell of it working. Sticking to our thrift model was absolutely essential. 

 It was only recently, when revenue was taken to over Â£300m a season that we could actually sustain the extravegant system that has been in place for the last 2 summer windows, and that is what is important. Sustainability.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 11, 2014)

freddielong said:



			Nothing is guaranteed in football that is why I think Arsene should be hailed a genius for what he has done at Arsenal and I find the fact that some people actually doubt him absurd, to have kept Arsenal where they are especially when the kids didn't work out and Robin Van Pursestrings sulked off to find a plan B with a net spend over the previous 7 seasons of 0 (IMHO no other manager in world football could have done it)

Arsenal really are approaching the financial promised land and I am glad Arsene is the guy to benefit from his hard work and loyalty
		
Click to expand...

i think ink the proof will be come the next few years. Whilst I respect what he has done. He's generally played the lottery re youngsters. How many do you release yearly when they're not the next fabregas? Luckily enough paid off and he's generated funds with it. 

Re I don't think he or others that left did anything wrong. Players careers are finite so they have to capitalise when they can, they can't wait for a ten year project to finish like a manager can. 

There are quite a few arsenal fans who critics him too, more than neutrals IMO. But as has been raised before, surely arsenal need a leader on the pitch. He hasn't found one of them for sometime, and that's something he needs to address.


----------



## freddielong (Jul 11, 2014)

Football changes over the seasons and there was a move away from that philosophy and the need for a DM but it is worth noting Vieira who has been mentioned was not the DM in the invincible's team that was the job of another world cup winner. I does appear that Arsene is looking towards that kind of player again and I think there will be game this season where he starts with a 442 so things are changing.


----------



## c1973 (Jul 11, 2014)

freddielong said:



			The debt over all, which was at about Â£450mil, in 2008 and is now closer to Â£250m? Though all that is left are fixed fees now that cannot be paid off early. Our debt was so large that at one point two thirds of our payments were on interest, and not on the debt itself, the club had to ensure it had enough money to dig itself out of any trouble. 


Also with regards to the amount of money Arsenal held in reserve and whether or not the plans could of been brought forward, huge chunks of it were not actually available to the club to spend on transfers. 

Â£30m owed to other teams.
Â£25m as a debt servicing reserve. 
Â£10m on player criterea related fees.
Â£30m contingent for not attaining CL (debatable how necessary this was though tbh). Further to that its been reported that we had performance related penalties from sponsors, further lowering revenues had CL not been attained. 

 Not only that Swiss ramble catagorically stated that without player sales and property development, Arsenal made some losses up to Â£31m a season, and seeing as how Gazidis and Arsenal have been in the driving seat for championing FFP, it was imperative that we upheld such a stringent model if ever there was a hope in hell of it working. Sticking to our thrift model was absolutely essential. 

 It was only recently, when revenue was taken to over Â£300m a season that we could actually sustain the extravegant system that has been in place for the last 2 summer windows, and that is what is important. Sustainability.
		
Click to expand...

Sounds like your club is in safe hands. Good stuff.


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

freddielong said:



			This summer was always going to be the moment when the years of relative ration and harvest would finally be rewarded. Back around 2000, when this vision was being formed, the wider landscape in 2014 could only be guessed at. 

 But if you had told Wenger then that Liverpool, Everton and Tottenham would still be nowhere near sorting their own stadium issues, he would have been entitled to suppose that Arsenal and Manchester Unitedâ€™s dominance would be assured. 

 Manchester City and Chelsea, with close to Â£1 billion of benefactor investment apiece, have fundamentally altered the picture but Arsenal still now find themselves in an envious position compared to most of their competitors.

 On its own, the Â£150 million five-year Puma deal provides between Â£22 million and Â£26 million of extra money each and every year. The new Emirates shirt sponsorship deal does roughly the same. Together with other smaller commercial partnerships, the difference in the clubâ€™s commercial income next year compared with last year will be around Â£70 million. And the important point to remember is that this is not some sort of one-off payment but a yearly change that will be fully available for transfer fees and wages each and every year. It means that, from 2014-15, Arsenal will become one of the select few clubs in Europe to generate more than Â£300 million a year.

 There is considerable internal pride at this achievement and it was not hard to read between the lines when Ivan Gazidis, the chief executive, addressed the media. "I think it is a validation of the things we are doing right,â€ he said. â€œOur club has walked an independent path, standing on our own two feet, and thinking long term about that progression.â€ 

He went on to specifically add that Arsenal had got to where they are â€œwithout state funding or the help of a benefactorâ€ but through the work of people who â€œloveâ€ the club. â€œWhen we do achieve success it will be incredibly meaningful to everyone on this journey,â€ said Gazidis.

 There are still some thorns in this emerging garden of roses. In theory, Arsenal should be ideally placed to benefit from Uefaâ€™s new Financial Fair-Play regulations and the â€˜break evenâ€™ principle that clubs should not spend more than they naturally earn. In practice, Deloitteâ€™s new league table of the biggest earners in football very clearly signalled how Manchester City and Paris St Germain will seek to underpin their vast spending with sponsorship deals that would appear to have a close connection to their respective owners. 

 City have gone from generating Â£18 million in commercial income in 2008-9 to Â£166.9 million in 2012-13. This is already well ahead of more historically famous and successful clubs, such as Arsenal and Liverpool, and only marginally behind 
 Manchester United, Real Madrid and Barcelona. PSG have gone even further and now outstrip every club in world football for sponsorship revenue. These deals will be evaluated for â€˜fair valueâ€™ by Uefa and, during lunch this week with Michel Platini, it can be safely assumed that Gazidis was clearly outlining his â€œhealthy scepticsâ€ view of FFP.

 Yet even if that battle is lost, the wider narrative is clear. Arsenalâ€™s patience and long-term planning â€“ qualities not readily associated with modern football - are now beginning to reap their reward. Most significant of all was the confirmation that Wenger will sign a new contract that is likely to run until the end of the 2016-17 season. This was not so certain even five months ago when Arsenal were losing on the opening day of the season to Aston Villa and Wenger was being disrespectfully told by some fans that â€œyou donâ€™t know what youâ€™re doingâ€.

Having been the principal architect of Arsenalâ€™s vision â€“ and also the human shield for all the frustration over the clubâ€™s lack of trophies amid regular top four finishes since 2005 â€“ he has earned the chance to lead the club into this new phase. And what happens next, now that Wenger has the opportunity to regularly supplement the development of young players with expensive proven talent like Mesut Ozil, will decide his final standing in the pantheon of British footballâ€™s most influential managers.
		
Click to expand...

Good post , chelski fans dont like because they know that jose must do it this year or get the sack , where does he go then , france is only place left , he likes clubs that let him spent big money , if was a great manager then why not go to say west ham and show us how good he is , he knows he be found out , all top jobs now taken so where does he go when he gets the push and as for his boss , who does he bring in as he has sacked them all , Arsenal are healthy and chelski like city are eating at the top table because their owners are prepared to pay the bill and one day they wont then its pompey all over again .....................EYG


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Good post , chelski fans dont like because they know that jose must do it this year or get the sack , where does he go then , france is only place left , he likes clubs that let him spent big money , if was a great manager then why not go to say west ham and show us how good he is , he knows he be found out , all top jobs now taken so where does he go when he gets the push and as for his boss , who does he bring in as he has sacked them all , Arsenal are healthy and chelski like city are eating at the top table because their owners are prepared to pay the bill and one day they wont then its pompey all over again .....................EYG
		
Click to expand...

jose se won at Porto with no money. No disrespect to west ham as you've mentioned them or my club saints. But why would Jose go there? He doesn't have to prove himself. Just like wenger or saf wouldn't go to a small club either. I'd say. Jose will be given plenty of time. Wishful thinking of an arsenal fan that Chelsea fail. Even if roman walks, plenty of suitors will buy Chelsea. They're a lot bugger than Pompey, and there's more money in PL then when Leeds chased glory.


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			jose se won at Porto with no money. No disrespect to west ham as you've mentioned them or my club saints. But why would Jose go there? He doesn't have to prove himself. Just like wenger or saf wouldn't go to a small club either. I'd say. Jose will be given plenty of time. Wishful thinking of an arsenal fan that Chelsea fail. Even if roman walks, plenty of suitors will buy Chelsea. They're a lot bugger than Pompey, and there's more money in PL then when Leeds chased glory.
		
Click to expand...

Buying is one thing and then chucking money at it is another thing , if i had loads of money i buy Newcaslte and chuck money at it , or sunderland , jose got lucky at porto , the rest he spend big money and never stayed too long as he fallen out with everyone , if he dont do well this year he is getting sacked as he is spending big money again


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Buying is one thing and then chucking money at it is another thing , if i had loads of money i buy Newcaslte and chuck money at it , or sunderland , jose got lucky at porto , the rest he spend big money and never stayed too long as he fallen out with everyone , if he dont do well this year he is getting sacked as he is spending big money again
		
Click to expand...

Come on mate you can't knock Jose's record. Spending money is one thing,but making the team work is another.
Suppose he got lucky at Inter aswell?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2014)

And what would be considered as doing well for Chelsea? 
Anything but winning the League is a pretty poor season,as it is for all the big clubs. 
Obviously unless you win the CL.


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Come on mate you can't knock Jose's record. Spending money is one thing,but making the team work is another.
Suppose he got lucky at Inter aswell?
		
Click to expand...

Granted his record is good for someone who spend big big money and played dull football at times , he has burn his bridges , where can he go next , PSG maybe  and i dont like his big headed ways , parks the bus and enjoys it but when other teams park the bus he moans like crazy then there is the way he treats players , juan mata for example , he is going to get his own medicine soon


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Granted his record is good for someone who spend big big money and played dull football at times , he has burn his bridges , where can he go next , PSG maybe  and i dont like his big headed ways , parks the bus and enjoys it but when other teams park the bus he moans like crazy then there is the way he treats players , juan mata for example , he is going to get his own medicine soon
		
Click to expand...

I can see where your coming from. You either love Jose or hate him. Personally I think the man is class. Tactically he's up there with the best managers ever IMO.
Let's be honest mate,every manager moans when things don't go their way.
I don't think he treat Mata badly,he just didn't fancy him.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Granted his record is good for someone who spend big big money and played dull football at times , he has burn his bridges , where can he go next , PSG maybe  and i dont like his big headed ways , parks the bus and enjoys it but when other teams park the bus he moans like crazy then there is the way he treats players , juan mata for example , he is going to get his own medicine soon
		
Click to expand...

Im not Maureens biggest fan but his record cannot be knocked - he earned the right to pick and chose which clubs he could manage with his success at other clubs - even before Porto who was proving himself at UniÃ£o de Leiria.

He may not tactically be the best manager out there but man management wise and getting the best out of the players he is up there with the best. 

He was a record Wenger would dream off and has won in 4 different countries as well as two CL 

18 major titles as a manager ( not including super cups etc ) 

He may have done some awful things in the past in regards eye gouging and the treatment of refs etc but his record cannot be touched


----------



## paddyc (Jul 12, 2014)

Lets get back to the mighty gunners.

Absolutely brilliant bit of business by Wenger getting Sanchez for 30 mill, can't believe Barce let him go so cheaply. Debuchy not worth 10 million and why not give Jenkinson the berth at right back,he's reliable enough and  Debuchy is no better. I can't say I am a fan of Khedira enough to warrant 30 million and gthe biggest earner at the club and not sure we need another midfielder.Money would be better spent on a top quality centre half. I just hope we we still nurture the young talent and do not stop them developing by bringing in high cost mediocre players. I know there is some fantastic young talent at Arsenal and Wenger has 
previously been keen to bring them through, but trophy less seasons, fan pressure and keeping up with your rivals has forced his hand.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Buying is one thing and then chucking money at it is another thing , if i had loads of money i buy Newcaslte and chuck money at it , or sunderland , jose got lucky at porto , the rest he spend big money and never stayed too long as he fallen out with everyone , if he dont do well this year he is getting sacked as he is spending big money again
		
Click to expand...

Mate you seem far too biased. Jose one the CL with Porto playing very good footy. He also won it with inter, improving a team from previous years that has fallen apart since he left. Chelsea have spent money since he left and not done as well as when he was there. 

The he simple fact is that Jose currently has one of the best cvs in football. Any club that has him in charge will be happy with that.


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Mate you seem far too biased. Jose one the CL with Porto playing very good footy. He also won it with inter, improving a team from previous years that has fallen apart since he left. Chelsea have spent money since he left and not done as well as when he was there. 

The he simple fact is that Jose currently has one of the best cvs in football. Any club that has him in charge will be happy with that.
		
Click to expand...

And they will need to give him plenty of money to spent too otherwise he is not going there to be shown up , tell me where next as he is a 2 or at most 3 seasons man as by that time he has upset most at the club , He improve an inter team , yes , spent lots and the club is skint now ?


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			And they will need to give him plenty of money to spent too otherwise he is not going there to be shown up , tell me where next as he is a 2 or at most 3 seasons man as by that time he has upset most at the club , He improve an inter team , yes , spent lots and the club is skint now ?
		
Click to expand...

Don't you worry about Jose,he's happy at Chelsea for now


----------



## freddielong (Jul 12, 2014)

I don't know Jose seems like a caricature of himself  at the moment the confidence and arrogance he used to have all seems a bit put on as if it's an act whereas he used to believe everything he said


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I don't know Jose seems like a caricature of himself  at the moment the confidence and arrogance he used to have all seems a bit put on as if it's an act whereas he used to believe everything he said
		
Click to expand...


Yep he fail at Madrid and left and there was nowhere to go and Chelski had no one else as the Russian has had them all and sacked them all so 2 people with no where to go got together again and they will only be one winner and the other will get a little pay off ....................EYG


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			Yep he fail at Madrid and left and there was nowhere to go and Chelski had no one else as the Russian has had them all and sacked them all so 2 people with no where to go got together again and they will only be one winner and the other will get a little pay off ....................EYG
		
Click to expand...


Didn't he win the title at Madrid plus a few other trophies ?


----------



## sandmagnet (Jul 12, 2014)

Yes after years of barca dominance so he is crapWould not mind him at the club I support:thup: But we have the next best thing in BFS:whoo:


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Didn't he win the title at Madrid plus a few other trophies ?
		
Click to expand...

They wanted the champions league and he failed hence even after signing a 4 year contract he left before he was sacked , he is a big head and does not know how to be humble , be interesting to see how he goes this year as the Russian gets bored quick


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 12, 2014)

I am very interested to see how Arsenal fair once the spending is over. It's a little unusual for them to be so public about wanting to spend the money so I'm sure there are already deals in the pipeline.


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I am very interested to see how Arsenal fair once the spending is over. It's a little unusual for them to be so public about wanting to spend the money so I'm sure there are already deals in the pipeline.
		
Click to expand...

They are on the up , injuries to walcot ,Ramsey , ozil and the ox at the wrong time cost them big style otherwise i am sure they would have won the league , like you say they have deals in the pipeline and good young players trust wenger to give them a chance thats why they sign for him and this year they have money to burn and can match any club , only question is if they want too as they showed in the case of sanchez


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			They wanted the champions league and he failed hence even after signing a 4 year contract he left before he was sacked , he is a big head and does not know how to be humble , be interesting to see how he goes this year as the Russian gets bored quick
		
Click to expand...


If calling a manager a "failure" for only winning a title ?! What does a manager get called for winning nothing ?


----------



## NWJocko (Jul 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If calling a manager a "failure" for only winning a title ?! What does a manager get called for winning nothing ?
		
Click to expand...

Rodgers :rofl:

Edit, on,y joking. Couldn't resist, you teed it up perfectly :thup:


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

NWJocko said:



			Rodgers :rofl:
		
Click to expand...


Well im guessing he is a failure then :thup:


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			If calling a manager a "failure" for only winning a title ?! What does a manager get called for winning nothing ?
		
Click to expand...


He left because he failed to win the Champions League and because of the way he behaved , a club like that does not like a manager that behaves like that and brings down the clubs name , the league in spain is a 2 club league , now and again like last year you get an upset , since 1985 last season was only the 5th time its not been Barca or RM


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Well im guessing he is a failure then :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Yep , blew the league big style last , a draw vs chelsea and a win at C Palace and it was theirs , he knew chelsea would park the bus so play for a 0-0 and 3-0 up at palace and threw away trying to get a cricket l score , poor , and now no LS he has to start again ..............when RVP left arsenal we had too but we got wenger who knows how to do it even with limited funds ......................EYF


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			He left because he failed to win the Champions League and because of the way he behaved , a club like that does not like a manager that behaves like that and brings down the clubs name , the league in spain is a 2 club league , now and again like last year you get an upset , since 1985 last season was only the 5th time its not been Barca or RM
		
Click to expand...

So he wasn't a failure and winning the league against that Barce was no mean feat - the celebrations from the Madrid people certainly didn't looks a failed tenure.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 12, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I don't know Jose seems like a caricature of himself  at the moment the confidence and arrogance he used to have all seems a bit put on as if it's an act whereas he used to believe everything he said
		
Click to expand...

As a neutral looking in I find it surprising that any Arsenal fan should be questioning the competence of any other club's manager.

Despite the new signings I really fail to see how Arsenal can be seen as title contenders; goalkeeper is inconsistent, centrebacks are slow and they still lack a holding midfielder.

Seven points short last year and that is a fair amount to have to make up.


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So he wasn't a failure and winning the league against that Barce was no mean feat - the celebrations from the Madrid people certainly didn't looks a failed tenure.
		
Click to expand...

why leave then if he was that great , because he upset everyone thats why he had to go


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

JCW said:



			why leave then if he was that great , because he upset everyone thats why he had to go
		
Click to expand...


When did I call him great - there is middle ground between failure and great you know.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 12, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			As a neutral looking in I find it surprising that any Arsenal fan should be questioning the competence of any other club's manager.

Despite the new signings I really fail to see how Arsenal can be seen as title contenders; goalkeeper is inconsistent, centrebacks are slow and they still lack a holding midfielder.

Seven points short last year and that is a fair amount to have to make up.
		
Click to expand...

I agree - Sanchez is a quality player but who drops to the bench for him ? Ozil ? Carzorla , etc it's another attacker when they lack people in the defensive areas


----------



## JCW (Jul 12, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			As a neutral looking in I find it surprising that any Arsenal fan should be questioning the competence of any other club's manager.

Despite the new signings I really fail to see how Arsenal can be seen as title contenders; goalkeeper is inconsistent, centrebacks are slow and they still lack a holding midfielder.

Seven points short last year and that is a fair amount to have to make up.
		
Click to expand...

They being sorted , watch this space


----------



## rickg (Jul 12, 2014)

Keep an eye out for the new Arsenal Puma kit advert, filmed with Ian Poulter and Freddie LLungberg at The Centurion last month. 
Freddie was there with his new wife (Spurs fan!!) and they were still on their honeymoon...


----------



## freddielong (Jul 13, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			As a neutral looking in I find it surprising that any Arsenal fan should be questioning the competence of any other club's manager.

Despite the new signings I really fail to see how Arsenal can be seen as title contenders; goalkeeper is inconsistent, centrebacks are slow and they still lack a holding midfielder.

Seven points short last year and that is a fair amount to have to make up.
		
Click to expand...

I know it can be tough with all those words and things but need to read posts before commenting on them I didn't once question his competence just point out that he doesn't seem to be as confident


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			When did I call him great - there is middle ground between failure and great you know.
		
Click to expand...

Yeah, its the 4th place trophy!

can't wait for Arsenals first windy game in stoke, or top 4 match. Another stuffing and they all hand around til March!


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 13, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I know it can be tough with all those words and things but need to read posts before commenting on them I didn't once question his competence just point out that he doesn't seem to be as confident
		
Click to expand...

Question of interpretation.

The conversation that you and your fellow Arsenal supporters were, at that time, having on an open forum thread about Arsenal did seem to be focussing rather on the ability of the manager of another club and his ongoing ability. In the case of Mourinho confidence is, after all, a big part of it.

However, at the end of the day I couldn't really give a t**s as the Premier League perfectly summarises all of what is wrong with football in England.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

I do believe Arsenal are still a few good players short, and lack depth and so like Liverpool may find it hard to compete on all fronts. However it's rare for Arsenal to be so vocal about their intentions so I think that must mean they have irons in fires. I think if they can get a reliable keeper, a speedy powerful centre back and one or two midfielders to give bite and hold the ball then they could be a force to be reckoned with and able to withstand a windy night in Stoke. Same with Liverpool although for me it's about where the goals come from post Suarez and then about the back four. Mind you as a Fulham fan, I can only look on enviously at the PL shenanigans


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			As a neutral looking in I find it surprising that any Arsenal fan should be questioning the competence of any other club's manager.

Despite the new signings I really fail to see how Arsenal can be seen as title contenders; goalkeeper is inconsistent, centrebacks are slow and they still lack a holding midfielder.

Seven points short last year and that is a fair amount to have to make up.
		
Click to expand...

Koscielny, slow? Yeah, you know your stuff all right. 

Vermaelen is no slouch either.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 13, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Koscielny, slow? Yeah, you know your stuff all right. 

Vermaelen is no slouch either.
		
Click to expand...

Well he was slow enough in the League Cup Final in 2011.

I am glad that an expert like yourself appears to acknowledge Mertesacker's lack of mobility.


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Well he was slow enough in the League Cup Final in 2011.

I am glad that an expert like yourself appears to acknowledge Mertesacker's lack of mobility.
		
Click to expand...

Adams was never quick either. I was happy to have him in the team though.


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 13, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Adams was never quick either. I was happy to have him in the team though.
		
Click to expand...

Agreed but Adams read the game in a way that I don't think Mertesacker ever will.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 13, 2014)

Arsenal fans apparently are cancelling their BT subscriptions because of this advert 

http://www.thesportbible.com/articles/arsenal-fans-react-to-bt-sport-2014-promo-advert


----------



## USER1999 (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal fans apparently are cancelling their BT subscriptions because of this advert 

http://www.thesportbible.com/articles/arsenal-fans-react-to-bt-sport-2014-promo-advert

Click to expand...

There are idiots everywhere in life.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			Adams was never quick either. I was happy to have him in the team though.
		
Click to expand...

Adams wasn't playing against players with anywhere near the pace of the strikers these days. Plus he didn't need to chase back when all he had to do was raise his arm.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 13, 2014)

murphthemog said:



			There are idiots everywhere in life.
		
Click to expand...

As soon as Arsenal's first live game is scheduled they'll be back. I would doubt anyone would be that daft. No actually I can but if they are that one eyed then let them


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal fans apparently are cancelling their BT subscriptions because of this advert 

http://www.thesportbible.com/articles/arsenal-fans-react-to-bt-sport-2014-promo-advert

Click to expand...

Some arsenal fan has done an alternative too. Thought it was a bit harsh as it wasn't Liverpool that created the add. Albeit it starred some of your players.


----------



## jp5 (Jul 13, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal fans apparently are cancelling their BT subscriptions because of this advert 

http://www.thesportbible.com/articles/arsenal-fans-react-to-bt-sport-2014-promo-advert

Click to expand...

Probably more likely that they're cancelling as BT is a second rate broadcaster!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2014)

jp5 said:



			Probably more likely that they're cancelling as BT is a second rate broadcaster!
		
Click to expand...

And they've only just realised it didn't provide World Cup coverage?

surely they'd of cancelled at end of season?


----------



## rickg (Jul 14, 2014)

The Arsenal/Poulter advert filmed at The Centurion is airing tomorrow.....here's a 15 sec trailer filmed on our 13th......

http://www.soccerbible.com/advertis...onger-together-trailer-featuring-ian-poulter/


----------



## JCW (Jul 14, 2014)

rickg said:



			The Arsenal/Poulter advert filmed at The Centurion is airing tomorrow.....here's a 15 sec trailer filmed on our 13th......

http://www.soccerbible.com/advertis...onger-together-trailer-featuring-ian-poulter/

Click to expand...


Very Good , my mate played there with T Jaidee other week


----------



## rickg (Jul 14, 2014)

JCW said:



			Very Good , my mate played there with T Jaidee other week
		
Click to expand...

 Tong Chai shot 6 under that day.


----------



## JCW (Jul 14, 2014)

rickg said:



			Tong Chai shot 6 under that day.
		
Click to expand...


Steve at the Golf shop at lower Parkstone said he is some player for a small guy , anyway if you fancy a knock around Parkstone drop me a line , I am a bit more mellow these days , wife is over and we married on the 28th may with Russ as my best man and she tells me i am going to be a father for the 1st time at 55  in feb/march  next year , life is good and i am very happy and playing a bit more golf even if it is below the standard i use to play at ....................and i hope to go up and see my beloved Arsenal a bit more this year ..................EYG


----------



## rickg (Jul 14, 2014)

JCW said:



			Steve at the Golf shop at lower Parkstone said he is some player for a small guy , anyway if you fancy a knock around Parkstone drop me a line , I am a bit more mellow these days , wife is over and we married on the 28th may with Russ as my best man and she tells me i am going to be a father for the 1st time at 55  in feb/march  next year , life is good and i am very happy and playing a bit more golf even if it is below the standard i use to play at ....................and i hope to go up and see my beloved Arsenal a bit more this year ..................EYG
		
Click to expand...

:thup:
Many congratulations and good luck with the forthcoming fatherhood...


----------



## rickg (Jul 15, 2014)

rickg said:



			The Arsenal/Poulter advert filmed at The Centurion is airing tomorrow.....here's a 15 sec trailer filmed on our 13th......

http://www.soccerbible.com/advertis...onger-together-trailer-featuring-ian-poulter/

Click to expand...

Full video here

http://youtu.be/MyEAQh-Euo0


----------



## JCW (Jul 15, 2014)

rickg said:



			Full video here

http://youtu.be/MyEAQh-Euo0

Click to expand...

Very good , wonder how many goes he had at holding that putt


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 15, 2014)

As a Chelsea fan I'm hoping Arsenal don't sign Khedira. 
Arsene looks to be putting together a good squad that will seriously challenge for the title


----------



## JCW (Jul 15, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			As a Chelsea fan I'm hoping Arsenal don't sign Khedira. 
Arsene looks to be putting together a good squad that will seriously challenge for the title 

Click to expand...

You bet he is , I think he has a point to prove , he is well respected in football for his teams , fitness diet and bringing on young players and turning young players into great players and of course looking after the monies at Arsenal , when he use to try and sign a young player other clubs took notice and checked out the player themselves as they know he has an eye for talent ...............EYG


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2014)

JCW said:



			You bet he is , I think he has a point to prove , he is well respected in football for his teams , fitness diet and bringing on young players and turning young players into great players and of course looking after the monies at Arsenal , when he use to try and sign a young player other clubs took notice and checked out the player themselves as they know he has an eye for talent ...............EYG
		
Click to expand...

Mate give it a rest already! He poaches talent, he had a good start with the French players granted as he knew market better than others as prem teams when he started had predominantly English coaches. But fitness, really? Hiw many major injuries to arsenal get every season? Or is it all just bad luck?


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 15, 2014)

Not sure about fitness. Every season they seem to lose two or three key players for large chunks which doesn't happen to other clubs, certainly not as often. I wonder if that has anything to do with fitness regimes. As for the squad he's assembling, add Khadeira and it's looking top quality


----------



## JCW (Jul 15, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Mate give it a rest already! He poaches talent, he had a good start with the French players granted as he knew market better than others as prem teams when he started had predominantly English coaches. But fitness, really? Hiw many major injuries to arsenal get every season? Or is it all just bad luck?
		
Click to expand...


And which expert are you , football or fitness , I heard on talksport today what others say about him and just re-post on here , maybe i should listen to you , football injuries happen , Diaby , Ramsey , Edwardo were nothing to do with training methods , just teams kicking players because they lacked the talent to beat them at football


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 15, 2014)

Walcott
Ramsey
Oxlade
Rosicky
Wilshire
Vermaluen
Carzolla 
Flamini
Diaby

All have had long term injuries issues since arriving at Arsenal and a lot of them muscle strains


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 15, 2014)

Not all of them were kicked off the park. Seems to be issues with muscular injuries and also reoccurences soon after. Does that mean they were rushed back too soon or not treated properly


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 15, 2014)

JCW said:



			And which expert are you , football or fitness , I heard on talksport today what others say about him and just re-post on here , maybe i should listen to you , football injuries happen , Diaby , Ramsey , Edwardo were nothing to do with training methods , just teams kicking players because they lacked the talent to beat them at football
		
Click to expand...

Why is it then that the club  itself has undertaken a review of its training methods and medical department?

Wenger is a good manager but I have news for you; he is not the best manager who ever lived.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2014)

JCW said:



			And which expert are you , football or fitness , I heard on talksport today what others say about him and just re-post on here , maybe i should listen to you , football injuries happen , Diaby , Ramsey , Edwardo were nothing to do with training methods , just teams kicking players because they lacked the talent to beat them at football
		
Click to expand...

I see, so pundits never disagree then? Or do you stop listening when they're not sucking up to wenger. Please tell me, how many youth players has Wenger nurtured from arsenals youth set up that weren't bought in the first place. 

Many teams am shave beaten arsenal playing better football, and even more have beaten them playing worse football. Maybe you should ask why is it that managers derided such as big sam still get the upper hand over arsenal. Eduardo and Ramsey bith suffered horrific injuries granted. But what about all the others? Was RVP, Walcott, ox, Gibbs, vernalise kicked all over the park in recent seasons? 

I know now all people will support their teams. But you make Phil (no offence Phil) look like Switzerland!


----------



## JCW (Jul 15, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			I see, so pundits never disagree then? Or do you stop listening when they're not sucking up to wenger. Please tell me, how many youth players has Wenger nurtured from arsenals youth set up that weren't bought in the first place. 

Many teams am shave beaten arsenal playing better football, and even more have beaten them playing worse football. Maybe you should ask why is it that managers derided such as big sam still get the upper hand over arsenal. Eduardo and Ramsey bith suffered horrific injuries granted. But what about all the others? Was RVP, Walcott, ox, Gibbs, vernalise kicked all over the park in recent seasons? 

I know now all people will support their teams. But you make Phil (no offence Phil) look like Switzerland!
		
Click to expand...

Every dog has his day and sam`s west ham were well beaten this year , I dont keep tabs on how many players as there is no need , the experts respect the man and what you think matters not as you like me post on here what we think which counts for not a lot and as for Phil , no idea who you mean or even interested in finding out ..............EYG


----------



## JCW (Jul 15, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Why is it then that the club  itself has undertaken a review of its training methods and medical department?

Wenger is a good manager but I have news for you; he is not the best manager who ever lived.
		
Click to expand...

All good clubs review things to check if things are being done as they should be or bring on new methods to improve things , if you stay still you fall behind , I own my business and i am always looking at new ideas , you have too as not doing so will cost you ......................as for him not being the best  manager , well that again is ones views , would wenger have done as well at Man U or fergie done as good at Arsenal , he is up there with the best , who is the best , I dont claim to know , maybe you do and care to share that with us


----------



## freddielong (Jul 16, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Why is it then that the club  itself has undertaken a review of its training methods and medical department?

Wenger is a good manager but I have news for you; he is not the best manager who ever lived.
		
Click to expand...

That is your opinion mine is that he is neither opinion can be proved nor disproved 

One of the reasons Arsenal have put the review in place is to free up Arsene Wengers time, he hasn't been a SAF type manager who sits at the back hires the best people and leaves them to get on with it till he needs to kick someone's urse , Arsene is in charge of almost every training session all the tactics sessions he overseas all the players diets he does everything, he even eats the same diet as the players. 

As part of his new contract he will scale that back a bit this is one of the reasons we have hired the ex German national fitness coach Shad Forsythe widely regarded as the best in the business.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 16, 2014)

freddielong said:



			That is your opinion mine is that he is neither opinion can be proved nor disproved 

One of the reasons Arsenal have put the review in place is to free up Arsene Wengers time, he hasn't been a SAF type manager who sits at the back hires the best people and leaves them to get on with it till he needs to kick someone's urse , Arsene is in charge of almost every training session all the tactics sessions he overseas all the players diets he does everything, he even eats the same diet as the players. 

As part of his new contract he will scale that back a bit this is one of the reasons we have hired the ex German national fitness coach Shad Forsythe widely regarded as the best in the business.
		
Click to expand...

im not sure if you mean it or not. But effectively you're saying fergie was just a motivational speaker? Lol


----------



## Deleted member 18588 (Jul 16, 2014)

JCW said:



			All good clubs review things to check if things are being done as they should be or bring on new methods to improve things , if you stay still you fall behind , I own my business and i am always looking at new ideas , you have too as not doing so will cost you ......................as for him not being the best  manager , well that again is ones views , would wenger have done as well at Man U or fergie done as good at Arsenal , he is up there with the best , who is the best , I dont claim to know , maybe you do and care to share that with us
		
Click to expand...

As you say it is only one man's opinion but in the 56 years I have been following football in this country I would name three truly outstanding managers and several others worthy of consideration.

In the top bracket and in no particular order are Paisley, Clough and Ferguson.

Paisley's record was phenomenal at a time when English clubs were still feeling their way in Europe, Clough prove that it was possible for smaller clubs, like Derby and Forest, to compete at the very top and Ferguson, in 27 years, built not one but at least three dominant teams.

The next layer for me would include Shankly, Busby, Revie, Ramsey and...............................Wenger.


----------



## freddielong (Jul 16, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			im not sure if you mean it or not. But effectively you're saying fergie was just a motivational speaker? Lol
		
Click to expand...

I am just saying Wenger has his methods and SAF had his, SAF was a top top manager just not as hands on as Wenger. Paisley who  has been mentioned again is a guy who took over a well oiled machine, had been involved in it for many years prior to taking over and kept in running like a dream. He didn't do anything exceptional to change or radicalise the methods used but still an exceptional manager it carried on working through Fagan until Dagleish started changing things. 

Just different methods of doing the same job


----------



## JCW (Jul 16, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I am just saying Wenger has his methods and SAF had his, SAF was a top top manager just not as hands on as Wenger. Paisley who  has been mentioned again is a guy who took over a well oiled machine, had been involved in it for many years prior to taking over and kept in running like a dream. He didn't do anything exceptional to change or radicalise the methods used but still an exceptional manager it carried on working through Fagan until Dagleish started changing things. 

Just different methods of doing the same job
		
Click to expand...

Well said , wenger would be the most complete manager as he done everything well and we will now see Arsenal push on as the financial side of the club is very strong and with the new stadium and the revenue matchdays bring its up there with the other top clubs , Liverpool Everton Villa Spurs need a new stadium but also know if they take it on they will fall behind for years so are unwilling to do so as  they dont have a manager like wenger to see them through the lean times like he did , 9 years no trophies but there was champions league and also a few finals , came close but never won anything but the money kept rolling in , city and chelsea are businesses that the owners keeping putting money into to keep up with the supermarket up the road and with FFP kicking in things will change .


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 16, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I am just saying Wenger has his methods and SAF had his, SAF was a top top manager just not as hands on as Wenger. Paisley who  has been mentioned again is a guy who took over a well oiled machine, had been involved in it for many years prior to taking over and kept in running like a dream. He didn't do anything exceptional to change or radicalise the methods used but still an exceptional manager it carried on working through Fagan until Dagleish started changing things. 

Just different methods of doing the same job
		
Click to expand...

I agree with that, though it was Souness that tried to change everything in one full hit.

The signing of Sanchez and the imminent arrival of Khedira shows how serious Arsenal are.

Strengthen a weakened squad with PROVEN  quality is the way to go.


----------



## freddielong (Jul 16, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			I agree with that, though it was Souness that tried to change everything in one full hit.

The signing of Sanchez and the imminent arrival of Khedira shows how serious Arsenal are.

Strengthen a weakened squad with PROVEN  quality is the way to go.
		
Click to expand...

I just remember Liverpool had there way of doing things when they signed a player he seemed to disappear for a couple of months it wasn't straight in the first team he had to learn the Liverpool way, and then things changed.

I am just glad that now Arsenal are through the other side of a very difficult financial period for the club people will realise that the question shouldn't be why did Arsenal stick with Arsene but why did Arsene stick with Arsenal.


----------



## need_my_wedge (Jul 16, 2014)

Only went back a couple of pages, didn't see this so chucking it in here. If you're an Arsenal fan, some new puma golf gear, and the Poulter video mentioned a couple of pages back

http://www.golfalot.com/equipment-news/puma-launch-arsenal-fc-collection-2941.aspx


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 16, 2014)

Wilshire is getting ready for the new season it seems

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...-SMOKING-and-DRINKING-at-Las-Vegas-pool-party


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 16, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I just remember Liverpool had there way of doing things when they signed a player he seemed to disappear for a couple of months it wasn't straight in the first team he had to learn the Liverpool way, and then things changed.

I am just glad that now Arsenal are through the other side of a very difficult financial period for the club people will realise that the question shouldn't be why did Arsenal stick with Arsene but why did Arsene stick with Arsenal.
		
Click to expand...

You're right but you couldn't do that these days, signings are EXPECTED to be successful straight away with the new aged  premier league fans.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 16, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Wilshire is getting ready for the new season it seems

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...-SMOKING-and-DRINKING-at-Las-Vegas-pool-party

Click to expand...

Shock horror,young man has a good time in Vegas


----------



## freddielong (Jul 16, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			You're right but you couldn't do that these days, signings are EXPECTED to be successful straight away with the new aged  premier league fans.
		
Click to expand...

I guess also sponsors want their commodities on the pitch raising the profile of whatever they are be paid to use

I think the thing about the Jack Wilshere Las Vegas story is he is a player who has had a few injuries and stop start seasons he should be looking after himself and trying to sort it out, I personally think he is the guy who needs to step up this season like Aaron Ramsey last season or he could be out of the door.


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 16, 2014)

freddielong said:



			I guess also sponsors want their commodities on the pitch raising the profile of whatever they are be paid to use

I think the thing about the Jack Wilshere Las Vegas story is he is a player who has had a few injuries and stop start seasons he should be looking after himself and trying to sort it out, I personally think he is the guy who needs to step up this season like Aaron Ramsey last season or he could be out of the door.
		
Click to expand...

Ive got no issue with any of the players having a blowout on their summer break but i agree with this comment.

I dont rate him as highly as most do to be honest, very good player but thats about it imo.


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 16, 2014)

Quite a few comments from Liverpool fans on this ARSENAL thread. Obsessed???


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 16, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			Quite a few comments from Liverpool fans on this ARSENAL thread. Obsessed??? 

Click to expand...

Haha. Giving fair minded and positive opinion though.:thup:

Not snidy, one dimensional criticism at every juncture. We've also not trawled facebook and twitter for multiple unfunny pictures all day, and commented on 4 other Arsenal threads.

A soupcon of difference methinks.

Oh,BTW in case it doesn't come through which team I support, it's Liverpool. Who do you SUPPORT again?:whoo:


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 17, 2014)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...-Cup-winnings-23-children-surgery-Brazil.html
Nice touch


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 18, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...-Cup-winnings-23-children-surgery-Brazil.html
Nice touch
		
Click to expand...

However according to The Independent it isn't true http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ries-for-sick-children-in-brazil-9611178.html


----------



## Pin-seeker (Jul 18, 2014)

That's it,I'm never believing anything I read on the internet again


----------



## Stuey01 (Jul 18, 2014)

Has that daily wail article been updated?
I just clicked on the links and both stories say he has donated money for 23 kids in Brazil to have surgery they needed.


----------



## Stuey01 (Jul 18, 2014)

I saw yesterday debuchy signing is confirmed now.


----------



## JCW (Jul 27, 2014)

Arsenal have signed the colombian Goalie David Ospina and Saints RB Calum Chambers is on his way as well and they will get  Khedira too from Real Madrid soon , what a team they will be , looking down at the rest this year for sure ..........................EYG


----------



## Stuart_C (Jul 27, 2014)

JCW said:



			Arsenal have signed the colombian Goalie David Ospina and Saints RB Calum Chambers is on his way as well and they will get  Khedira too from Real Madrid soon , what a team they will be , *looking down at the rest this year for sure* ..........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

Until Sanchez gets injured


----------



## JCW (Jul 27, 2014)

Stuart_C said:



			Until Sanchez gets injured

Click to expand...

Walcott be back by then , we got a German fitness coach now to check on the players , Arsenal have an awesome squad now , make no mistake , get mario from inter an it be complete ................whoever wants to win the league will need to finish above Arsenal ........................EYG


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 27, 2014)

JCW said:



			Walcott be back by then , we got a German fitness coach now to check on the players , Arsenal have an awesome squad now , make no mistake , get mario from inter an it be complete ................whoever wants to win the league will need to finish above Arsenal ........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

If by mario you mean baloteli. He's at ac not inter. Rumours are khedira deal is dead. I'd say city n Chelsea bith exoect to finish a I've arsenal


----------



## jp5 (Jul 28, 2014)

JCW said:



			Walcott be back by then , we got a German fitness coach now to check on the players , Arsenal have an awesome squad now , make no mistake , get mario from inter an it be complete ................whoever wants to win the league will need to finish above Arsenal ........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

Ahem... you're making Arsenal fans look like nutters. A little realism please. Any advance on scraping into 4th each year would be appreciated!


----------



## Stuey01 (Jul 28, 2014)

jp5 said:



			Ahem... you're making Arsenal fans look like nutters. A little realism please. Any advance on scraping into 4th each year would be appreciated!
		
Click to expand...

He's just one fan.
Most Arsenal fans I know, including myself, are pretty realistic about where we are.

The team is being strengthened with good signings and it is exciting times with some existing players really showing their class.  The team still has to go out there and actually perform though.
There is potential for sure that this could be a really really good side. But not making any pronouncements about being the team to beat, as that is clearly bananas. There are lots of good teams.


----------



## jp5 (Jul 28, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			He's just one fan.
Most Arsenal fans I know, including myself, are pretty realistic about where we are.

The team is being strengthened with good signings and it is exciting times with some existing players really showing their class.  The team still has to go out there and actually perform though.
There is potential for sure that this could be a really really good side. But not making any pronouncements about being the team to beat, as that is clearly bananas. There are lots of good teams.
		
Click to expand...

It's an exciting time for Arsenal fans with players being signed before the season actually starts for a change! Can see the new signings improving the team, though think Arsenal are still a few world class players short of challenging for the title.


----------



## Stuey01 (Jul 28, 2014)

7 points short last season, and the team being strengthened this summer.  I think it's legitimate to be cautiously optimistic about the coming season.

It's nice to see players being signed early for sure. And class like Sanchez too.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves!


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 28, 2014)

With [seemingly] many other teams 'upping their game' in the off season... 
Scraping into fourth place has just got a whole lot harder...


----------



## Stuey01 (Jul 28, 2014)

MegaSteve said:



			With [seemingly] many other teams 'upping their game' in the off season... 
Scraping into fourth place has just got a whole lot harder...
		
Click to expand...

Scraping in by 7 points... the same gap as between Arsenal and City.
So of the teams outside of the top 4, who do you feel has done a better job of strengthening this summer?

UTD will probably bounce back to some extent. I'll give you that.

Everton? Spurs? Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but I don't remember them setting the world alight with signings this summer.

Liverpool have sold a global superstar and signed lots of over priced mid table players, I see them in the fight for fourth this year.

Jesus, I'm starting to sound like a crazy fan.  I'm not. At all. Just seems Arsenal bashing is a popular past time on here.

I think we'll be in the mix, that's all.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 28, 2014)

Looking at the normal protaganists, there's Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool. I think Utd will be more competitive this season too and suddenly you've five into four spots before you factor in the likes of Spurs or Everton. Any side losing too much ground early on will be in a real dog fight for that final place. 

For me it will be a City/Chelsea battle for the title, Arsenal a close 3rd, and then Liverpool to pip United, followed by Everton 6th and Spurs 7th


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 28, 2014)

JCW said:



			.whoever wants to win the league will need to finish above Arsenal ........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

I think whoever wants to win the league will need to finish above all 19 other teams, not just Arsenal


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 28, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			seems Arsenal bashing is a popular past time on here.
		
Click to expand...


Hello Stuey... Not Arsenal 'bashing' at all... Apologies, I should've put a 'winkie' after my comment...

No longer visit the terraces only got to see a couple of live games last season... One being the semi-final...
So, my support is only from the armchair nowadays...


----------



## CheltenhamHacker (Jul 28, 2014)

Stuey01 said:



			Just seems Arsenal bashing is a popular past time on here.
		
Click to expand...

I've spotted a trend here.

Arsenal fans think everyone is "Arsenal bashing"

Liverpool fans think everyone is "against Liverpool"

Man Utd fans think everyone is "Anyone but United"

Anyone spotting where I'm going with this?


----------



## Stuey01 (Jul 28, 2014)

CheltenhamHacker said:



			I've spotted a trend here.

Arsenal fans think everyone is "Arsenal bashing"

Liverpool fans think everyone is "against Liverpool"

Man Utd fans think everyone is "Anyone but United"

Anyone spotting where I'm going with this?
		
Click to expand...

Haha, maybe you're right!

But...

UTD and Liverpool suck


----------



## JCW (Jul 28, 2014)

I am not crazy at all , I think they will do well , winning the FA Cup last year has lifted the club and now with money to spend they will move on and in january if they still in touch they will buy to get the job done , good start and some luck will be key , Ramsey getting injured along with Walcott last season was the 7 points so thats the luck bit , It will be an interesting season and wenger and Jose have been there and done it , dont mention city boss , he got lucky coz Liverpool blew it last year , as for Van Gal , never done it in the PL so its wait and see ...........................EYG


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2014)

JCW said:



			I am not crazy at all , I think they will do well , winning the FA Cup last year has lifted the club and now with money to spend they will move on and in january if they still in touch they will buy to get the job done , good start and some luck will be key , Ramsey getting injured along with Walcott last season was the 7 points so thats the luck bit , It will be an interesting season and wenger and Jose have been there and done it , dont mention city boss , he got lucky coz Liverpool blew it last year , as for Van Gal , never done it in the PL so its wait and see ...........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

The best team wins the league. It's 38 games long. City messed up in games too. Liverpools just happened at the end. 

Re re arsenal and luck. I would suggest you get far more injuries than just bad luck. But time will tell. I'd still be more suprised to see you win it than finish fifth. What's happened with all these big signings you were making. Sanchez has been followed by..............


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			The best team wins the league. It's 38 games long. City messed up in games too. Liverpools just happened at the end. 

Re re arsenal and luck. I would suggest you get far more injuries than just bad luck. But time will tell. I'd still be more suprised to see you win it than finish fifth. What's happened with all these big signings you were making. Sanchez has been followed by..............
		
Click to expand...

Debauchy and Chambers :thup:


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 28, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			The best team wins the league. It's 38 games long. City messed up in games too. Liverpools just happened at the end. 

Re re arsenal and luck. I would suggest you get far more injuries than just bad luck. But time will tell. I'd still be more suprised to see you win it than finish fifth. What's happened with all these big signings you were making. Sanchez has been followed by..............
		
Click to expand...

I do think Arsenal have had a lot of injuries to key players over the last few years and many were vocal on their fitness regime. Lallana already injured for Liverpool so maybe its just a quirk. It's injuries to key players and the sides ability to deal with that which I think plays a key part in deciding the title. Arsenal lacked strength in depth for a few seasons and fell away as a result of a thinner squad than others. I don't think they'll have the same problem this season


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Debauchy and Chambers :thup:
		
Click to expand...

Of yeah, they'll win me the league! Arsenal have a new formation with two rbs.


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I do think Arsenal have had a lot of injuries to key players over the last few years and many were vocal on their fitness regime. Lallana already injured for Liverpool so maybe its just a quirk. It's injuries to key players and the sides ability to deal with that which I think plays a key part in deciding the title. Arsenal lacked strength in depth for a few seasons and fell away as a result of a thinner squad than others. I don't think they'll have the same problem this season
		
Click to expand...

so far they've signed two rbs to replace one. And one quality attacking player. Id say the squad will still have the same perils unless wenger buys another first class striker as Giroud was knackered post Xmas.


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 28, 2014)

JCW said:



			whoever wants to win the league will need to finish above Arsenal ........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

Either you are saying Arsenal don't want to win the league, or your logic is flawed - and trivialised at best!

Arsenal look to have a stronger team this year, but 3rd/4th looks to be the likely target again. I'd be hapoy for them if they won though - putting all the Wenger critics in their place, and I'm not (really) an Arsenal fan!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 28, 2014)

Arsenal prob banking on olayers like Walcott , Oxlade , Wilshire etc surviving a season without being injured 

They have been every season pretty much and can easily see the trend continuing


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 28, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Arsenal prob banking on olayers like Walcott , Oxlade , Wilshire etc surviving a season without being injured 

They have been every season pretty much and can easily see the trend continuing
		
Click to expand...

That's not a lot different from other teams banking on their star players being fit/available 'all' season either!

Pretty sure most teams expect some sort of outage, if not from injury, then card accumulation!


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 28, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			That's not a lot different from other teams banking on their star players being fit/available 'all' season either!

Pretty sure most teams expect some sort of outage, if not from injury, then card accumulation!
		
Click to expand...

Id suggest arsenal have a history with regular injures to certain players so if they don't over fill the squad a bit, surely it comes down to bad management?

obviosuly all team hope for a fully fit squad but players will be missing. The skill is to have a squad good eniugh. Which IMO arsenal still don't to mount a realistic assault on the title.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

I like the Arsenal signings and think on paper they look a much stronger team but I do fear there is still a real lack of depth once you start getting injuries and suspensions and with so much football to play. It's well known how many of the Arsenal key players have missed huge chuks of campaigns through injuries whatever their cause and IF they can have a campaign that's as free from injury as any can be then I think they will have a chance to do well. I still can't see beyond Chelsea or City for the PL but Wenger always gets a decent CL performance and I think this could be a season where they do very well again


----------



## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Wenger knows the score , thats why he has not got a new fitness coach , he is German , German Engineering now looks after the players , this guy is a top man and wenger has learned hence the change , buying 2 RB , the other one can play across the back 4 and all that is needed now is a tough midfield enforcer and maybe another striker but looking at the attacking  options at the club its looks the best by far in the league and they have got 4th place before with a weaker squad , this year it will be a higher finish , only player i remain unconvinced about is BFG , his lack of pace worries me , still what do i know about the finer points of football management , in wenger we trust .........................EYG


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Wenger knows the score , thats why he has not got a new fitness coach , he is German , German Engineering now looks after the players , this guy is a top man and wenger has learned hence the change , buying 2 RB , the other one can play across the back 4 and all that is needed now is a tough midfield enforcer and maybe another striker but looking at the attacking  options at the club its looks the best by far in the league and they have got 4th place before with a weaker squad , this year it will be a higher finish , only player i remain unconvinced about is BFG , his lack of pace worries me , still what do i know about the finer points of football management , in wenger we trust .........................EYG
		
Click to expand...

You genuinely think you've more attacking options than city? I probably know a fair more about chambers than yours
ef and for all the talk about him being a cb or cm. he's a teenage fb with 25 games. He looks a great prospect but I'd not be banking on him winning you the title. Get Vidal and I'd take you serious. But until then. Your squad is a country mile behind city's and IF Costa scores 25/30 goals (more than Chelsea's entire strike force last season). You'll finish behind them too.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

No one has more attacking options than City and if they are struggling they'll just splash the cash anyway. Chelsea will get more goals this year and I really can't see beyond them for the title. After that, my money is on Arsenal 3rd based on no more than the squad they are assembling this season and the thought that Wenger knows how to get the most from a squad and is use to dealing with limited resources so I'm expecting the extra talent he has to be a key difference.

After that, it'll be a tight fight between Liverpool and United who I think have to be so much better this time around. If Liverpool can get their signings to gel and can recover from the big hole Suarez has left I think they'll nick 4th. 

The problem is the big two will always go out and buy more resources and so the PL is becoming more and more a two horse race. I know United are allocating a war chest of funds to get players in, but they still don't realistically compare to City and Chelsea. Liverpool and Arsenal too have always been fiscally pragmatic and I can't see them ever really changing that.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			You genuinely think you've more attacking options than city? I probably know a fair more about chambers than yours
ef and for all the talk about him being a cb or cm. he's a teenage fb with 25 games. He looks a great prospect but I'd not be banking on him winning you the title. Get Vidal and I'd take you serious. But until then. Your squad is a country mile behind city's and IF Costa scores 25/30 goals (more than Chelsea's entire strike force last season). You'll finish behind them too.
		
Click to expand...

A new fitness guy won't stop the players made of glass getting injured 

Diaby - 39 injuries
Walcott - 16 injuries 
Wilshire - 14 injuries 
Rosciky - 9 injuries 

The list is endless - Wenger likes small technical players who are great on the ball but struggle to handle the physical side of the game - a fitness regime won't stop the players getting clattered by others during the winter/spring months. 

This season I suspect will be the same as every season - good start then tail off in Feb time


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Unlike Lallana who didn't even make it to the start of the season

The problem is these gifted players are smaller but are also targets because of their skills and take punishment as a result. It's not just Arsenal but look at the likes of Messi, Aguero etc. They are constantly being kicked and stopped in hteir tracks and picking up niggly injuries as a result. 

I think it's unfair to pick specifically on the Arsenal injury list. A number of injuries have been bad ones (broken legs) and these take time. Other clubs have been luckier in that injuries have never been season ending like these. Look at United when RVP was out. Lacked a lot more firepower and whenever you take key personnel out a side will struggle. The difference is Chelsea and City have a full blown second XI waiting to come in whereas Arsenal and Liverpool have always been rather threadbare in terms of capable replacements


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Unlike Lallana who didn't even make it to the start of the season

The problem is these gifted players are smaller but are also targets because of their skills and take punishment as a result. It's not just Arsenal but look at the likes of Messi, Aguero etc. They are constantly being kicked and stopped in hteir tracks and picking up niggly injuries as a result. 

I think it's unfair to pick specifically on the Arsenal injury list. A number of injuries have been bad ones (broken legs) and these take time. Other clubs have been luckier in that injuries have never been season ending like these. Look at United when RVP was out. Lacked a lot more firepower and whenever you take key personnel out a side will struggle. The difference is Chelsea and City have a full blown second XI waiting to come in whereas Arsenal and Liverpool have always been rather threadbare in terms of capable replacements
		
Click to expand...

Tbf homer. I think the four Lphil selected paint a pretty clear picture. Lallana isn't injury prone as the others appear to be. Surely squad management comes into it. If you know you have players that won't make a season. Sign more! Bad luck can come into it with a season ender. But Walcott for example was at arsenal 4 years before he had surgery on his shoulder which he'd had an issue with since birth.


----------



## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			You genuinely think you've more attacking options than city? I probably know a fair more about chambers than yours
ef and for all the talk about him being a cb or cm. he's a teenage fb with 25 games. He looks a great prospect but I'd not be banking on him winning you the title. Get Vidal and I'd take you serious. But until then. Your squad is a country mile behind city's and IF Costa scores 25/30 goals (more than Chelsea's entire strike force last season). You'll finish behind them too.
		
Click to expand...


Why do you think these young players choose Arsenal over other clubs , its because of wenger and what he can do for them , Vidal is overrated and over priced and there are better and cheaper options and he will get them , now as for Costa , If he gets 25/30 goals , the big word is If , can he handle the PL , they may kick him out of it or they may not but it always takes a season for goal scorers to settle , anyway if Costa was that good RM or Barca would have bought him , he may well be a one season wonder as last season was his best by far , you never know till the fat lady sings .....................EYG


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf homer. I think the four Lphil selected paint a pretty clear picture. Lallana isn't injury prone as the others appear to be. Surely squad management comes into it. If you know you have players that won't make a season. Sign more! Bad luck can come into it with a season ender. But Walcott for example was at arsenal 4 years before he had surgery on his shoulder which he'd had an issue with since birth.
		
Click to expand...

Pretty much sums it up 

Aguero is a perfect example - out injured a number of times - same with Jovetic - City have Negredo and Dzeko also there - no issue 

Arsenal will continue to have injury problems due to the lack of cover and the type of player - been like that for a number of years and can't see it changing. The list of players who have competed a full season at Arsenal won't be a very long list.

They need to boost the squad and bring in physically strong players that can handle the stresses of the premier league


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Totally disagree. I think Arsenal are assmebling a much deepr squad and have had the players to compete. Many have had bad injuires and yet they still managet to finish top 4 and usually above Liverpool so Wenger and these players so ill equipped for the PL can't be doing too badly.

What about others. RVP was a long term injury. Has he not proved himself to cope in the PL. Long list from a host of clubs the same applies to. Think its wrong to single out the Arsenal injuries and then say they can't cope with the PL physicality


----------



## MegaSteve (Jul 29, 2014)

A return to the good old days maybe worth considering... Only get paid when you play... Reckon a fair few of those 'niggles' would no longer appear...


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally disagree. I think Arsenal are assmebling a much deepr squad and have had the players to compete. Many have had bad injuires and yet they still managet to finish top 4 and usually above Liverpool so Wenger and these players so ill equipped for the PL can't be doing too badly.

What about others. RVP was a long term injury. Has he not proved himself to cope in the PL. Long list from a host of clubs the same applies to. Think its wrong to single out the Arsenal injuries and then say they can't cope with the PL physicality
		
Click to expand...

Homer this much deeper squad finished fourth last year yeah? They've since added Sanchez and two right backs. Last season the short comings were a ball winner and a second striker to help when giroud fell apart. They've nit addressed that yet IMO. 

I think if they're squad was fully fit then on paper their starting 11 is very good. But injuries aside, let's recall their performances in the big games last year. Maybe that's the real reason. All well and good steam rolling the smaller clubs. But from 6th up, how many points did they accrue?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Totally disagree. I think Arsenal are assmebling a much deepr squad and have had the players to compete. Many have had bad injuires and yet they still managet to finish top 4 and usually above Liverpool so Wenger and these players so ill equipped for the PL can't be doing too badly.

What about others. RVP was a long term injury. Has he not proved himself to cope in the PL. Long list from a host of clubs the same applies to. Think its wrong to single out the Arsenal injuries and then say they can't cope with the PL physicality
		
Click to expand...

They have bought two RB's and another small technical forward ? That's it - nothing else. 

RvP has proved himself. - when fit which is a rarity ! 

When Arsenal last won the league they had a strong back four , strong players in the middle and players up front with pace and power - they don't have them anymore and that's why they haven't won the league - players like - Henry , Viera , Adams , Keown , Gilberto , Pires etc haven't been replaced by like for like in terms of physical attributes - they brought Flamini back. - looked a lot more solid ( then he got injured ) 

Disagree all you want - but the facts are there to be seen by all.


----------



## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

some of you guys on here talk like you are experts on football injuries and tactics ,the past history is what it is history    wenger has been there with all kinds of teams , big strong players like in the unbeaten season and the faster and more mobile players , he will find the right balance now he can go out and buy ,  Arsenal have not had to sell to buy unlike chelsea , man c have already breached the FFP and have to watch it , Man u has a new manager and need lots of players and may do well but if they dont start well things will go like how Moyes found it , Sir Alex is a huge act to follow , Liverpool I am not too sure about , it depends on how the new players settle but LS is a massive miss , I expect Arsenal ,chelsea , Man c & Utd plus liverpool to be thereabouts , dark horses will be Spurs with Everton not too far behind , of the top mangers if anyone is too get the sack it will be Jose as his boss is a sacker of managers .........................EYG


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Finished 4th with a whole list of injuries so the remainder can't have been too bad. last season against the top sides they were poor. However in the previous seasons they have been more competitive against these teams. I don't think their transfer business is finished either so that squad will be enhanced. 

At the end of the day I don't really give too much of a damn being a Fulham fan but do think there has been some intersting posts blaming injuries, Wenger and the moon being out of alignment for their perceived poor showings in recent years despite regular top 4 finishes and solid CL performances. With the top two being so far ahead in terms of cash available and quality of their squads, that would seem as no more than an interested and passionate football fan as a decent return


----------



## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Finished 4th with a whole list of injuries so the remainder can't have been too bad. last season against the top sides they were poor. However in the previous seasons they have been more competitive against these teams. I don't think their transfer business is finished either so that squad will be enhanced. 

At the end of the day I don't really give too much of a damn being a Fulham fan but do think there has been some intersting posts blaming injuries, Wenger and the moon being out of alignment for their perceived poor showings in recent years despite regular top 4 finishes and solid CL performances. With the top two being so far ahead in terms of cash available and quality of their squads, that would seem as no more than an interested and passionate football fan as a decent return
		
Click to expand...

Well said , leave the experts too it , they go on about Arsenal injuries and losing to the top teams but Forget Arsenal hit the smaller teams for 6 and that these same teams beat the top teams , wenger wont make the same mistakes again and will be closer this year and may even tip them .....................EYG


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well said , leave the experts too it , they go on about Arsenal injuries and losing to the top teams but Forget Arsenal hit the smaller teams for 6 and that these same teams beat the top teams , wenger wont make the same mistakes again and will be closer this year and may even tip them .....................EYG
		
Click to expand...

Been making the same mistakes for over a decade now and still hasn't addressed the issues so the season will be the same

To win the leagues you need to beat both the top teams and the small teams - Arsenal got smashed by the big teams last season. Nothing has happened this summer to suggest that won't happen again


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well said , leave the experts too it , they go on about Arsenal injuries and losing to the top teams but Forget Arsenal hit the smaller teams for 6 and that these same teams beat the top teams , wenger wont make the same mistakes again and will be closer this year and may even tip them .....................EYG
		
Click to expand...

Hiw is it we're experts if we disagree with you? You're a fan and therefor blinkered I get that. But explain to me how you see arsenals first team, or squad as stronger than city n Chelsea? Wenger had a brilliant team a decade ago. Since then his teams have played beautiful football. But I'd suggest without the use of google that in that decade. Albeit you've had a strangle hold on fourth. Your record againt the big teams will be inferior to all your competition. You don't win the league without taking points of your competition.


----------



## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Been making the same mistakes for over a decade now and still hasn't addressed the issues so the season will be the same

To win the leagues you need to beat both the top teams and the small teams - Arsenal got smashed by the big teams last season. Nothing has happened this summer to suggest that won't happen again
		
Click to expand...

The most points over 38 games wins the league , like a round of golf is over 18 holes , no use making birdie on stoke 1 hole and triple bogie on stoke 16,17 & 18 holes which is what Chelsea and Liverpool did last year and what they win .................ZERO because of that , Ramsey and Walcott`s long term injuries cost Arsenal lots last year so you also need luck and that is something you cannot plan for or buy ........................EYG


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Been making the same mistakes for over a decade now and still hasn't addressed the issues so the season will be the same

To win the leagues you need to beat both the top teams and the small teams - Arsenal got smashed by the big teams last season. Nothing has happened this summer to suggest that won't happen again
		
Click to expand...

And yet have consistently out performed Liverpool and the vast majority of the PL over the same period. You keep going on about Arsenal losing to the big sides last year but for seasons before that they've always been a match and one season shouldn't be taken out of context. As I said, given the squads and spending capability of Chelsea and City and the immense performances of United, that leaves everyone else playing for 4th downwards and who has com,e 4th and therefore top of the remaining crop most often?


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			The most points over 38 games wins the league , like a round of golf is over 18 holes , no use making birdie on stoke 1 hole and triple bogie on stoke 16,17 & 18 holes which is what Chelsea and Liverpool did last year and what they win .................ZERO because of that , Ramsey and Walcott`s long term injuries cost Arsenal lots last year so you also need luck and that is something you cannot plan for or buy ........................EYG
		
Click to expand...


Who was your cover for Ramsey and Walcott ? Or your cover for Giroud ? Or Flamini ? Who is going to cover for them this year when they are injured again ? 

The teams that win the league get the cover for those players that suffer regular injuries. 

Bringing up two teams that finished above Arsenal suggests what exactly ? 

What has Wenger done this summer that suddenly makes Arsenal the team to fear ?


----------



## jp5 (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			Well said , leave the experts too it , they go on about Arsenal injuries and losing to the top teams but Forget Arsenal hit the smaller teams for 6 and that these same teams beat the top teams , *wenger wont make the same mistakes again* and will be closer this year and may even tip them .....................EYG
		
Click to expand...

I've heard that every year for about the past 5 seasons!

Getting continually tonked by rugby scores away at United, Liverpool, City and Chelsea would seem to suggest otherwise.


----------



## jp5 (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And yet have consistently out performed Liverpool and the vast majority of the PL over the same period. *You keep going on about Arsenal losing to the big sides last year but for seasons before that they've always been a match and one season shouldn't be taken out of context.* As I said, given the squads and spending capability of Chelsea and City and the immense performances of United, that leaves everyone else playing for 4th downwards and who has com,e 4th and therefore top of the remaining crop most often?
		
Click to expand...

26 points from 90 against the top 4 teams over the past 5 seasons. It's not a new phenomenon of Arsenal bottling it against bigger teams.

Wenger has done well with his resources to scrape a Champions League place every year, which is the primary concern of the board.

Unfortunately, he no longer has the tactics to succeed against the bigger teams and I don't see a few signings changing that.


----------



## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

jp5 said:



			I've heard that every year for about the past 5 seasons!

Getting continually tonked by rugby scores away at United, Liverpool, City and Chelsea would seem to suggest otherwise.
		
Click to expand...


They have turn the corner both in spending terms and winning trophies and are spending to push on , as for cover for the Ramsey and Walcott , not easy to get cover players of the same  quality to play 2nd fiddle , Barcelona don`t have another messi so your arguement is flawed like most of your post , you just love to argue and the stats and reason you post are flawed Liverpool phil , the past has no bearing to the future on the subjects were are talking about ....................EYG


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			They have turn the corner both in spending terms and winning trophies and are spending to push on , as for cover for the Ramsey and Walcott , not easy to get cover players of the same  quality to play 2nd fiddle , Barcelona don`t have another messi so your arguement is flawed like most of your post , you just love to argue and the stats and reason you post are flawed Liverpool phil , the past has no bearing to the future on the subjects were are talking about ....................EYG
		
Click to expand...


Spent a lot of money last summer ? 

Other teams that win the title find cover for players ?

Didn't arsenal turn a corner last season as well. What exactly is flawed then. 

You have talked about Arsenal being the team to beat this year yet have failed to justify that when people have queried why you appear to suggest you are the team to beat - you have purchased a couple of players but still haven't addressed the issues that have dogged Arsenal for a decade now


----------



## Papas1982 (Jul 29, 2014)

JCW said:



			They have turn the corner both in spending terms and winning trophies and are spending to push on , as for cover for the Ramsey and Walcott , not easy to get cover players of the same  quality to play 2nd fiddle , Barcelona don`t have another messi so your arguement is flawed like most of your post , you just love to argue and the stats and reason you post are flawed Liverpool phil , the past has no bearing to the future on the subjects were are talking about ....................EYG
		
Click to expand...

I've heard it all now. Messi in a comparison to Walcott!!

Ramsey wasn't even wanted by arsenal fans before last season. So imagine if he hadn't come good? Barcelona have no messi true, but they have over options. Arsenal fell away last season for two main reasons. Walcott injured so no threat if pace and teams pressed arsenal more not worrying about space. And when Ramsey got injured nobody did ozils running. Where was the planning for that? You can't just pick a team for the season and say that 11 is good I'll just cross my fingers n toes against injury.


----------



## JCW (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spent a lot of money last summer ? 

Other teams that win the title find cover for players ?

Didn't arsenal turn a corner last season as well. What exactly is flawed then. 

You have talked about Arsenal being the team to beat this year yet have failed to justify that when people have queried why you appear to suggest you are the team to beat - you have purchased a couple of players but still haven't addressed the issues that have dogged Arsenal for a decade now
		
Click to expand...


I am off to play golf now , wife runs my business while i enjoyed life , Leave you to argue with your shadow , I am sure you will twist it one way and your shadow will twist it the other way and it will go on and on and soon you be a Hall of famer for posting , lovely sunny day for golf and a pint so  .......................EYG


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Spent a lot of money last summer ? 

Other teams that win the title find cover for players ?

Didn't arsenal turn a corner last season as well. What exactly is flawed then. 

You have talked about Arsenal being the team to beat this year yet have failed to justify that when people have queried why you appear to suggest you are the team to beat - you have purchased a couple of players but still haven't addressed the issues that have dogged Arsenal for a decade now
		
Click to expand...

And since 03/04 they've finished 2nd, three 3rd's and the rest in 4th and considerably out performed not only Liverpool but most of the PL. Not a bad flawed system.


----------



## jp5 (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And since 03/04 they've finished 2nd, three 3rd's and the rest in 4th and considerably out performed not only Liverpool but most of the PL. Not a bad flawed system.
		
Click to expand...

They are also a bigger team than most of the PL. Success is relative and Arsenal have been underperforming for a long time.


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			And since 03/04 they've finished 2nd, three 3rd's and the rest in 4th and considerably out performed not only Liverpool but most of the PL. Not a bad flawed system.
		
Click to expand...

And won the CL or Prem zero times - it's a model that gets them to 4th as opposed to winning the title - hence why people asking JCW why they are suddenly the team to beat.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

jp5 said:



			They are also a bigger team than most of the PL. Success is relative and Arsenal have been underperforming for a long time.
		
Click to expand...

Well below Chelsea, City and up until last season United. The first two will always outstrip anyone in the PL with their squads and ability to spend big if needed. United were a great side just on the wane before Fergie retired and he managed to squeeze the last drop out of the squad he had to win again. They are now in transition and probably alongside Arsenal and Liverpool in terms of comparison. 

Look at their performances over the last ten years and they have consistantly out performed the majority with the exception of the big three (City, Chelsea and United) and been the best of the rest. I don't see what else could have been achieved bar perhaps a domestic cup.


----------



## jp5 (Jul 29, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Well below Chelsea, City and up until last season United. The first two will always outstrip anyone in the PL with their squads and ability to spend big if needed. United were a great side just on the wane before Fergie retired and he managed to squeeze the last drop out of the squad he had to win again. They are now in transition and probably alongside Arsenal and Liverpool in terms of comparison. 

Look at their performances over the last ten years and they have consistantly out performed the majority with the exception of the big three (City, Chelsea and United) and been the best of the rest. I don't see what else could have been achieved bar perhaps a domestic cup.
		
Click to expand...

But what happened before those 10 years? The Invincibles, probably the greatest ever league team, and 2 league/cup doubles in 3 years, a Champions League final, etc. An incredible platform to build on.

Wenger took a huge step back in dismantling that squad as quickly as he did and instead focused on building a team of small, technical players. He's still paying for that now and as an Arsenal fan, whilst his belligerence for a certain style of play continues, he will never win the league.


----------



## HomerJSimpson (Jul 29, 2014)

jp5 said:



			But what happened before those 10 years? The Invincibles, probably the greatest ever league team, and 2 league/cup doubles in 3 years, a Champions League final, etc. An incredible platform to build on.

Wenger took a huge step back in dismantling that squad as quickly as he did and instead focused on building a team of small, technical players. He's still paying for that now and as an Arsenal fan, whilst his belligerence for a certain style of play continues, he will never win the league.
		
Click to expand...

You are better placed than me to comment on it. I am only coming at it from a football fan and armchair supporter as well as a long suffering Fulham man. I can see exactly what your saying regarding building on the invincibles and with some big names signings the season after there should have been no reason not to have had back to back wins rather than an immediate rebuild. For all of that though you have to admire what he manages to get and the level of consistency they have


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 29, 2014)

jp5 said:



			But what happened before those 10 years? The Invincibles, probably the greatest ever league team, and 2 league/cup doubles in 3 years, a Champions League final, etc. An incredible platform to build on.

Wenger took a huge step back in dismantling that squad as quickly as he did and instead focused on building a team of small, technical players. He's still paying for that now and as an Arsenal fan, whilst his belligerence for a certain style of play continues, he will never win the league.
		
Click to expand...

A very honest assessment JP5.

Apart from Clough (who had nowhere near the same financial resources), I am struggling to remember a manager in the last 40 years who had 5-10 years of great success, then had 5-10 years of relative/mediocre success compared to the earlier years, like Wenger.  

Homer, I agree on some of your sentiment, but not all. FWIW agreeing with LiverpoolPhil is not a sign of weakness....


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 29, 2014)

jp5 said:



			But what happened before those 10 years? The Invincibles, probably the greatest ever league team, and 2 league/cup doubles in 3 years, a Champions League final, etc. An incredible platform to build on.

Wenger took a huge step back in dismantling that squad as quickly as he did and instead focused on building a team of small, technical players. He's still paying for that now and as an Arsenal fan, whilst his belligerence for a certain style of play continues, he will never win the league.
		
Click to expand...

Remember there has been a new stadium built - that apparently won't be paid back until 2030 - and a profit in all but 1 of something like the last 20 years!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Remember there has been a new stadium built - that apparently won't be paid back until 2030 - and a profit in all but 1 of something like the last 20 years!
		
Click to expand...


Was there an open top bus for celebrating gaining a financial profit ? Medals given out to the players and on the honours board each year ? 

For a team like Arsenal they need success on the pitch


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Was there an open top bus for celebrating gaining a financial profit ? Medals given out to the players and on the honours board each year ? 

For a team like Arsenal they need success on the pitch
		
Click to expand...

CL football for the past 14 consecutive years seems to have been their measure of success. FA Cup was a bonus.

As a comparison, remind us again how much 'profit' Liverpool made in the last 3 years? And just what success it has had?

To me, there's going to be an almighty scrap for 3rd and 4th place between Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool (I'm picking City and Chelsea to be 1 & 2, but that depends on Mourinho actually achieving rather than just whingeing like he did last year).


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			CL football for the past 14 consecutive years seems to have been their measure of success. FA Cup was a bonus.

As a comparison, remind us again how much 'profit' Liverpool made in the last 3 years? And just what success it has had?

To me, there's going to be an almighty scrap for 3rd and 4th place between Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool (I'm picking City and Chelsea to be 1 & 2, but that depends on Mourinho actually achieving rather than just whingeing like he did last year).
		
Click to expand...

I have no idea what profit we had - I do know we won a trophy though.


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I have no idea what profit we had - I do know we won a trophy though.
		
Click to expand...

Er. Apparently the loss was around Â£50m for 2 of those years and slightly smaller in the other! Arsenal also won a trophy! But they made a profit each year!


----------



## Liverpoolphil (Jul 29, 2014)

Foxholer said:



			Er. Apparently the loss was around Â£50m for 2 of those years and slightly smaller in the other! Arsenal also won a trophy! But they made a profit each year!
		
Click to expand...

Like i said - the trophies matter and they are celebrated as opposed to gaining profit


----------



## Foxholer (Jul 29, 2014)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Like i said - the trophies matter and they are celebrated as opposed to gaining profit
		
Click to expand...

But without profit, or a Sugar-daddy, there's a danger of any club fading into insignificance/disappearing!

So profit does matter, not necessarily every year, but over the long term.

However, fans typically ignore that - then wonder why they have empty periods!


----------



## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

In 5 years Arsenal will have been in the top league of English football for 100 years , that just a great record and Wenger is the 18th manager since that year , Since Graham  was sacked  21/2 1995 there 4 managers to 30/9/1996 houston , Rioch , Houston , Rice then Wenger , they do give managers a chance , chelsea have had 18 since 1988 .........................they like to sack ..................................look out jose the russian mafia will get you soon .....................EYG


----------



## Liverbirdie (Jul 30, 2014)

JCW said:



			In 5 years Arsenal will have been in the top league of English football for 100 years , that just a great record and Wenger is the 18th manager since that year , Since Graham  was sacked  21/2 1995 there 4 managers to 30/9/1996 houston , Rioch , Houston , Rice then Wenger , they do give managers a chance , chelsea have had 18 since 1988 .........................they like to sack ..................................look out jose the russian mafia will get you soon .....................EYG
		
Click to expand...

edit:Whoops, wrong thread.

Nothing to see here, move along now.


----------



## JCW (Jul 30, 2014)

Liverbirdie said:



			Nar hasn't been as good since he knocked you out of the CL Qf's, oh what a night that was.

What a game.
		
Click to expand...



????????????????????????????????????????????????????? sorry you lost me


----------



## JCW (Jul 31, 2014)

Sami Khedira to Arsenal looks like taking place and Cozola going back to spain ...............hope not as that be a big loss


----------



## JCW (Aug 2, 2014)

What a start , only positive things today , 5-1 Vs the Portuguise Champions , the 2 young strikers scoring and Ramsey having a good game , looks like he will buy a DM soon , from Porto , RM or Southampton , thats next for sure and he knows it but gave nothing away ..................Up the Gunners


----------

