# Bunkers



## white_feather (Jul 24, 2012)

I understand the principles of bunker play, open stance, weigth on your front foot, open the club face, a shallow angle of attack and aim 2 inches behind the ball, but i just can't get it to work for me.

What works for you?

What do you think about when you jump down in the sand?

I've tried the "draw a circle around the ball and aim to strike the circle out of the bunker" so  any advice?


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2012)

white_feather said:



			I understand the principles of bunker play, open stance, weigth on your front foot, open the club face, _*a shallow angle of attack*_ and aim 2 inches behind the ball, but i just can't get it to work for me.

What works for you?

What do you think about when you jump down in the sand?

I've tried the "draw a circle around the ball and aim to strike the circle out of the bunker" so  any advice?
		
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_*Steep angle of attack*_ unless you have powdery sand in your bunkers


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## One Planer (Jul 24, 2012)

Don't quit on the shot through impact.

I took Bobs advice when I was struggling and I can now get out of bunkers with no issues.


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## jdchelsea (Jul 24, 2012)

bob when you say steep angle of attack could you elaborate. i.e. mechanically/mentally what does this entail. 

It's a term i hear all the time but not really sure what i'm actually trying to do or what i do try to do, when trying to have a steep angle, is the correct thing.

thanks


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## Curls (Jul 24, 2012)

I should preface this by saying our course drains superbly and its rare our bunkers are hardened grit, we usually have some fluffy sand to play with.

What works for me is almost forgetting I am in a bunker, for my handicap I'd say I'm a pretty decent sand player, and though like you I'm aware of the technique when I stand in a bunker my mindset doesn't really change hugely from if I had a fluffy lie off the green. I see the pin, where I want it to land, take a nice 3/4 swing, steady back then accelerate through with the face open and concentrate on getting under the ball and splashing it out at the right pace, and continuing the follow through, much like a would a flop shot. Have a look at this youtube clip of Luke Donald and with one hand he first shows how most amateurs dig into the sand and then how to use the bounce, he just bounced the wedge off the sand, it took a perfect amount of sand and was no exceptional effort, the clubhead is designed to travel through the sand and bounce, when you feel that you start to think/worry less about technique and become more target-oriented. You HAVE to hit a practice bunker and hit dozens of different shots, folk don't do it enough and wonder why they're no good in the sand, different open-ness of face/stance, different distances, once you get the feel of splashing the ball out you'll never fear bunkers again. In contrast my buddy will often groan "I just hope I get it out". That mindset, regardless of what he understands about technique, is not getting him good results. Hope that helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwhTwIMu2LU


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2012)

I like to see the club entering the sand 2-4 in behind the ball and about 2-3 inces deep. That way, you can be quite aggresive with the shot without it flying across the green

[video=youtube;c11XYrHSEII]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c11XYrHSEII&amp;list=UUFeb2vdftHQESr49G8ZorhQ&amp;  index=7&amp;feature=plcp[/video]


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## One Planer (Jul 24, 2012)

Bob.

If you want a little more spin control out of a bunker, would you play the shot the same way and just take less/more sand?

** Sorry for the hijack OP **


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2012)

If you want more spin, you need to take less sand and less power and use the sole as Luke showed in his video.
The technique in my video is more for the guy who cant get it out at all and works for the bukers you and I play out of most of the time.
So hard swing, lots of sand/dirt giving lots of height.


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## One Planer (Jul 24, 2012)

bobmac said:



			If you want more spin, you need to take less sand and less power and use the sole as Luke showed in his video.
The technique in my video is more for the guy who cant get it out at all and works for the bukers you and I play out of most of the time.
So hard swing, lots of sand/dirt giving lots of height.
		
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Cheers Bob :thup:


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## Curls (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks Bob, if I may hijack the hijacker (really sorry OP!) how do you approach it when its just rained loads and the sand it compacted and wet and trying to get under it or blast it out isnt an option?


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## daymond (Jul 24, 2012)

Curts. How would you deal with that if you were not in a bunker?


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## daymond (Jul 24, 2012)

The prime thing with bunker play is confidence.


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## bobmac (Jul 24, 2012)

Curls said:



			Thanks Bob, if I may hijack the hijacker (really sorry OP!) how do you approach it when its just rained loads and the sand it compacted and wet and *trying to get under it or blast it out isnt an option?*

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It's always an option.
I just hit down deeper and harder to get through the compacted sand/dirt


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## Curls (Jul 25, 2012)

bobmac said:



			It's always an option.
I just hit down deeper and harder to get through the compacted sand/dirt
		
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I've tried that with a sand wedge, bounced and thinned it straight in the face! I guess I wasnt trying to dig in though, more like trying to cut a sliver out of it and not with much success, I'm not comfortable with the idea of digging in like that on the basis I feel like I might ground the club in mud and the ball would pop to nowhere, so I'll have to wait til the rain hits hard again and get myself in a practice bunker and give this a go. Cheers Bob


Edit - cheers Daymond, like I say I'm quite confident in a bunker, don't really feel any different to around the green. I guess if I had a bare-mud lie around the green I'd chip-and-run it, ball back with a 7 iron I'd concentrate on hitting ball first then a small amount of mud and run it there. But that's not an option with a lip in front of you, hence my question to Bob, who's answer surprised me but if I've learned one thing from being on here its that he knows his stuff so I'm looking forward to giving it a go. Sound


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## One Planer (Jul 25, 2012)

Curls said:



			Thanks Bob, if I may hijack the hijacker (really sorry OP!) how do you approach it when its just rained loads and the sand it compacted and wet and trying to get under it or blast it out isnt an option?
		
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bobmac said:



			It's always an option.
I just hit down deeper and harder to get through the compacted sand/dirt
		
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Pretty much this.

If the sand is flat and compacted after it has rained, I tend to take a little less sand but be a little more agressive through the shot.

I also tend not to open the face as much (Unless required) and rely on the loft of the club to lift the ball out.


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## Curls (Jul 25, 2012)

Gareth said:



			Pretty much this.

If the sand is flat and compacted after it has rained, I tend to take a little less sand but be a little more agressive through the shot.

I also tend not to open the face as much (Unless required) and rely on the loft of the club to lift the ball out.
		
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Cheers Gareth, like I say haven't practised it and have had VERY few occasions on our course where it's happened, normally drains very well, but I'll be sure to try it next time out after a downpour (lets hope against hope this isn't for a while), sound


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 25, 2012)

Bunkers have been an issue in the past. Had a lesson in March and trying to work more on it. Having some success at the moment and getting it out more often. Distance control i the biggest issue. I tend to hit every shot about 15 yards!! Trying to vary the speed and the amount of sand to control it better but not an exact science yet


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## leaney (Jul 25, 2012)

I was using Vokey wedge with a fair amount of bounce and used to have no success with it.

Then started using a Vokey wedge with little bounce and bunkers are a past issue.

I think my wedge just digs in under the ball a lot easier now.


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## RGDave (Jul 26, 2012)

white_feather said:



			I understand the principles of bunker play, open stance, weigth on your front foot, open the club face, a shallow angle of attack and aim 2 inches behind the ball, but i just can't get it to work for me.

What works for you?
		
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Almost none of that. 

I've taken on this style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xeADahxxrE

This works for me. I can hit normal bunker shots doing all the "stuff" but this method never lets me down. Don't know how/why....


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## Curls (Jul 26, 2012)

RGDave said:



			Almost none of that. 

I've taken on this style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xeADahxxrE

This works for me. I can hit normal bunker shots doing all the "stuff" but this method never lets me down. Don't know how/why....
		
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Interesting video, I hadn't come across that before, I think what he's doing that a lot of people forget (when using the traditional set up) is setting up with his hands well behind the ball and the shaft pointing to his right hip, most people I see in the bunkers don't do this, they feel they have to get their hands ahead like they do on a pitch and consequently fail to use the bounce


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## SocketRocket (Jul 26, 2012)

RGDave said:



			Almost none of that. 

I've taken on this style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xeADahxxrE

This works for me. I can hit normal bunker shots doing all the "stuff" but this method never lets me down. Don't know how/why....
		
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That's a good video Dave.  I like that method.


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## ScienceBoy (Jul 26, 2012)

Curls said:



			I think what he's doing that a lot of people forget (when using the traditional set up) is setting up with his hands well behind the ball and the shaft pointing to his right hip, most people I see in the bunkers don't do this, they feel they have to get their hands ahead like they do on a pitch and consequently fail to use the bounce
		
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I completely agree with this, why first set up to hit the ball high on a cushion of sand then with the last action turn it into a low shot????

The other thing people do is set up their hands and feet wrong. They end up swinging massively out to in rather than using the correct normal swing plane but with an open club face and open stance.


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## bobmac (Jul 26, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			That's a good video Dave.  I like that method.
		
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Watching him playing those shots, it obviously works OUT OF SOFT FLUFFY SAND.
You try playing that shot out of hard /wet / compacted sand and you'll be there all day.


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## SocketRocket (Jul 26, 2012)

bobmac said:



			Watching him playing those shots, it obviously works OUT OF SOFT FLUFFY SAND.
You try playing that shot out of hard /wet / compacted sand and you'll be there all day.
		
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If the sand is wet and compact then you can use this method by hitting a little closer to the ball.   It works fine, you need to practice it a bit like all shots.   Many golfers have problems bouncing the club into the ball when the face is open and the sand is compact.


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## bobmac (Jul 26, 2012)

SocketRocket said:



			If the sand is wet and compact then you can use this method by hitting a little closer to the ball.
		
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If  the face is open and the hands are behind the clubface, how is that going to get under the ball in hard sand? Would you not think that would just thin it?


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## SocketRocket (Jul 26, 2012)

bobmac said:



			If  the face is open and the hands are behind the clubface, how is that going to get under the ball in hard sand? Would you not think that would just thin it?
		
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But the face is not open Bob.  The way it works is to keep the club square and upright at impact, the leading edge takes a shallow strip of sand with the ball.

If the sand is exeptionally compact and/or shallow I sometimes use this method and play the ball.  Just like it was sat on a hardpan fairway.  You do need to hit the ball with a slow tempo so that it carries the correct distance though.


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## bobmac (Jul 26, 2012)

RGDave said:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xeADahxxrE

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SocketRocket said:



			That's a good video Dave.  I like that method.
		
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			You try playing that shot out of hard /wet / compacted sand and you'll be there all day.
		
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SocketRocket said:



			If the sand is wet and compact then you can use this method by hitting a little closer to the ball.
		
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			If  the face is open and the hands are behind the clubface, how is that going to get under the ball in hard sand?
		
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			But the face is not open Bob.
		
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I beg to differ




			The way it works is to keep the club square and upright at impact, the  leading edge takes a shallow strip of sand with the ball.
		
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Guess what, I know that.
But thats not what was in the video.
So you need one technique for soft sand and another for wet sand. 
My technique works for both.
Maybe I need to give 40,000 lessons before I can give an opinion on here?


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## SocketRocket (Jul 26, 2012)

bobmac said:



View attachment 2270


I beg to differ



Guess what, I know that.
But thats not what was in the video.
So you need one technique for soft sand and another for wet sand. 
My technique works for both.
Maybe I need to give 40,000 lessons before I can give an opinion on here?
		
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I really don't get you at times Bob.   Someone gives some advice, I agreed with it.  You disagreed with me and you suggest I am blocking your opinion.   It's a Golf Forum, people talk about golf and give/debate golf issues.   I happen to believe you give very good help to people but I think you would agree there are different ways of playing golf shots.

OK, in that picture his face is open before impact, I am not sure what it was like at impact.  If it was open with a linear method the ball would shoot off right. He suggests in his preamble that the face should not be open.


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## bobmac (Jul 26, 2012)

The next time you are in a wet bunker, you try and do what he does in the video and as I said before, you'll be there all day
Just my opinion


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## SocketRocket (Jul 26, 2012)

bobmac said:



			The next time you are in a wet bunker, you try and do what he does in the video and as I said before, you'll be there all day
Just my opinion
		
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If you take it that the face is kept open then I would agree.  If you keep it Linear and shallow it will work

Just my opinion as well.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 26, 2012)

I've using the linear method for bunker play and chipping. I have to say, even with hard compact sand providing you turn back and through the ball comes out. I'm rubbish at the short game but I manage. I set the club face square and rotate and let the bounce take a shallw divot in wet sand. Works for me. I respect Bob's advice so I'm not going to get involved in the debate per se. I am just happy to get it out. The chipping methodology has given me a new lease of life and given me some confidence again


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## bobmac (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd never heard of the linear method until Homer mentioned it so I watched the video and I have issues with it.
Homer, I'm glad your short game is improving using this system but I wont be changing my method of teaching any time soon.
SR, you said you liked the video, I said I didn't and said why. You then told me I was wrong. What did you think I would say?

To the newbies in golf who may have watched the video, DO NOT open the clubface, aim right and keep the hands behind the ball in hard sand.


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## User20205 (Jul 27, 2012)

I messed around in the practice bunker with both of these methods today. I appreciate both of their merits. The sand was dry & fine but not very deep. 

What worked for me was, line up square, club face neutral ie not open. Weight forward on left leg, grip down, take loads of sand. Commit to the shot. Vary distance by changing swing length. 

My bunker play is poor for my handicap, so I'm going to stick with this method for a while.

I did find open face = thin into the bunker face


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## SocketRocket (Jul 27, 2012)

bobmac said:



			SR, you said you liked the video, I said I didn't and said why. You then told me I was wrong. What did you think I would say?

To the newbies in golf who may have watched the video, DO NOT open the clubface, aim right and keep the hands behind the ball in hard sand.
		
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Bob, please reread the the thread and notice who started disagreeing with others advice.  Seems like when you disagree with me it just your opinion and if I clarify my statement then I am disagreeing with you 

Regarding the linear method with an open clubface: I think we all have agreed that will not work.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Jul 27, 2012)

Socket

Just out of interest, what is your qualification in golfing terms to give out all the advice you do?


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## SocketRocket (Jul 27, 2012)

drive4show said:



			Socket

Just out of interest, what is your qualification in golfing terms to give out all the advice you do?
		
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I know a lot about golf, I love the sport, I have studied it with great interest for many years.

The point is not what my 'qualifications' are, it's how good my advice is and how it may help people.    If someone disagrees with the information I give out FOC then they can ignore it, question it, ask me for clarification, give their own opinion or pass sarcastic comments.     I am confident enough in my abilities to make good debate on my beliefs but will always consider contrary views.


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