# Driving rants



## ruff-driver (Mar 27, 2015)

Come on then.. what grinds your gears with other drivers on the road?

Rear fogs...why...they've probably been left on since january  when there was a tiny bit of mist.

Wagons overtaking wagons, it takes 5 miles to do because the driver on the inside won't let his foot off for 5 seconds :mmm:


Must be plenty more....


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## Khamelion (Mar 27, 2015)

The one that really annoys me, are those drivers that slow down on he motorway/Dual Carriage way to let other drivers coming down the slip road join the motorway/Dual Carriage way. The cars on the sliproad *must* give priority to those on the motorway/dual carriage way, not the other way round.

The number of times I've seen drivers think they are being courteous by slowing or sometimes even stopping on the main road to let slip drivers out is just plain dangerous.

Obviously if circumstances allow the driver on the main road will just swap lanes and traffic flows but when that is not an option don't bleedin slow down or stop to let someone out from the slip road. If you'd left enough gap between you and the car in front the car on the slip, assuming they have half a brain, would just match the main road speed and slip in without any issues.


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## Stuey01 (Mar 27, 2015)

Related to khamlion's point.
Attempting to join a dual carriageway or motorway by driving down the slip road at @Â£&$Â¥*# 40mph

And red lights mean stop, not "oh go on then just one or two more"


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## TheDiablo (Mar 27, 2015)

Bus drivers thinking they have a right to pull out as soon as they indicate. I have serious anger issues with this!


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## ruff-driver (Mar 27, 2015)

'The peeper'

It's the driver who keeps appearing in your offside mirror every 5 seconds desperate to get past even though there is several miles of traffic infront of you.

They shoot past at the first opportunity usally cutting you up, then you spent the next umpteen miles watching their brake lights going on & off because they are incapable off maintaining a constant distance betwen them and the car infront


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## JackieD (Mar 27, 2015)

Front fogs.....why do people insist on having them on 24/7...theres a difference between fog lights and daytime running lights!


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2015)

Misuse of Rear Fogs and Land (lack of) discipline certainly my major gripes!

Love Stuey's description of Red Lights!

Folk poodling down a queue on a 'big' road who refuse to let anyone from a lesser road in. Closely followed by those who let the entire queue from it in!

The School Run!

Railway barrier policy!


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## Wildrover (Mar 27, 2015)

Stuey01 said:



			And red lights mean stop, not "oh go on then just one or two more"
		
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You've obviously never been to Naples.


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## HomerJSimpson (Mar 27, 2015)

I always thought the traffic lights were simple

Green = Go
Red = Stop 
Amber = Go very quickly


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 27, 2015)

People, usually old, who are so poor at driving that they now drive massively under the speed limit, eg 40mph in a 60 zone. Fine if the conditions suit but when everything is perfect they are just blocking traffic. Particularly a problem in the NE where we have so many single lane roads.


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## Fyldewhite (Mar 27, 2015)

Drivers who automatically stop at mini roundabouts. If you get three at the same time nobody moves!!!!!

Drivers who do 40 in a 50 then 40 in a 30 at the next village when you have overtaken them!

Drivers who don't slow down and "flash" an oncoming vehicle turning right when it is holding up a big queue of traffic. I'll usually be the one behind the car waiting!

FRONT fog lights permanently on......"they look pretty" etc ......they also say "****er".

Drivers who (usually in a Nissan Micra / Ford Ka / Fiat 500 etc) go in the outside lane at traffic lights then don't (or can't) pull away quickly enough to prevent chaos when the traffic merges into one lane.

.....etc etc.


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## Doh (Mar 27, 2015)

People filling the gap I have left to the car in front of me for bracking distance especially on the motorway.


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## Paul_Stewart (Mar 27, 2015)

People who come belting down the outside of a line of queuing traffic and then try to push in at the front.    This is why front-mounted cannons should be mandatory on all cars built from now on.


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

People who try and race you when you just want to get somewhere.


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## bobmac (Mar 27, 2015)

The driver who sits 30 feet behind the lorry at the front of the queue with no intention of overtaking the lorry, effectively doubling the length of time it would take to overtake both vehicles in one go.


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## Doon frae Troon (Mar 27, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			People, usually old, who are so poor at driving that they now drive massively under the speed limit, eg 40mph in a 60 zone. Fine if the conditions suit but when everything is perfect they are just blocking traffic. Particularly a problem in the NE where we have so many single lane roads.
		
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We have them in our area, when they get to a 30mph village they usually carry on at 40mph.


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## CMAC (Mar 27, 2015)

people on *my* road, its *my* road and *my* speed limit.

I want a 70mph tank, then we'll see who has right of way!








_/did I just type this out loud_


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## Martin70 (Mar 27, 2015)

Drivers who think it is acceptable to drive right up your arse because they are in a BMW


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 27, 2015)

Paul_Stewart said:



			People who come belting down the outside of a line of queuing traffic and then try to push in at the front.    This is why front-mounted cannons should be mandatory on all cars built from now on.
		
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I do hate this, forgot to put it in my rant. These cars, if not blown up, should be forcibly removed from the road and crushed and the driver left on the hard shoulder. Make your own way home mate.


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## cookelad (Mar 27, 2015)

On the motorway, those people who zoom up in the lane next to you then just sit on your shoulder when you need to pull out to overtake! 

People who slow down to walking speed to go over next to non-existent speed bumps!


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I do hate this, forgot to put it in my rant. These cars, if not blown up, should be forcibly removed from the road and crushed and the driver left on the hard shoulder. Make your own way home mate.
		
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Actually, half the 'fault' is often the idiots in the long single lane who haven't obeyed the sign that says 'Use Both Lanes and Merge'! Getting upset with the guy that is doing exactly as directed is daft imo! But it's pure selfishness on all the culprits parts that is the cause!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

I drove up to Liverpoooooooooool last Saturday in the dark. Very quiet M6, car cruising at 60 in the middle lane with nothing else about as I approached in the inside lane. Pulled out, flashed him to see if he would pull over which he didn't so I pulled into the outside lane and as I went past without even looking he gave me the finger.

Oh how I wish my dark blue 3 series BMW was an unmarked police car!!


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## Jimaroid (Mar 27, 2015)

Wow! A whole thread dedicated to moaning about Audi drivers? I'm in!


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## G.U.R (Mar 27, 2015)

People who don't indicate at roundabouts, you may be clairvoyant us mere mortals need more subtle indication of your movements. Also just because the M25 has 4 lane this doesn't mean you can't use the inside lane even if you are doing 70!, why do they insist on sitting in the second lane meaning everyone has to use the 3rd lane to pass them even thought the inside lane is clear!!


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## Jabba (Mar 27, 2015)

Illegally dark tinted windows/windscreens. You're not the U.S president you tw*t!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

People driving in the middle lane of motorway at 60mph whilst the inside lane is clear


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## Wildrover (Mar 27, 2015)

Car drivers who dawdle along the motorway at 50 and then speed up when I try to pass them in my truck, leaving me in the middle lane, then slow down again when I pull back in, because they don't want to be overtaken by a truck. Oxygen thieves!!!


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## adam6177 (Mar 27, 2015)

people who sit in the middle lane and outside lanes of motorways....because they are too lazy/ignorant/stupid to realise that the inside lane is clear and to move over to it.

The amount of times I've been tempted to undertake someone whilst travelling at 70mph on the inside is unreal.....then I realise it'd be ME that's in the wrong.  I've taken to over taking and then going across all 3 lanes to use the inside lane again to make a point.......does it work? never. they still sit there dawdling along clogging up the countries motorways.


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## KhalJimbo (Mar 27, 2015)

Mine is seeing people talking on their mobiles while driving. I always feel like speeding up and driving straight into the side of them!!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			Mine is seeing people talking on their mobiles while driving. I always feel like speeding up and driving straight into the side of them!!
		
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I agree with your sentiment but not quite sure about your solution


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			Mine is seeing people talking on their mobiles while driving. I always feel like speeding up and driving straight into the side of them!!
		
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If it makes you feel like that then maybe you're not the best person to be behind the wheel of a car


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

Cyclists side by side on country lanes who do not move to single file when cars are behind is my number one. I could write a book on it though, I am an angry motorist most of the time.


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## Imurg (Mar 27, 2015)

This is, quite simply, not enough Server space available to the Human race for me to even begin.....


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

Imurg said:



			This is, quite simply, not enough Server space available to the Human race for me to even begin.....
		
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 I am sure you have the absolute right to make the above statement!


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## Smiffy (Mar 27, 2015)

Prats who don't used their handbrakes when sitting at a set of traffic lights, especially when it's dark and piddling down with rain.
Upper rear brake lights have the same wattage bulbs as rear fog lights and they are just as bright.
Does my head in to be sitting right behind somebody with their upper rear brake like blinding me.


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## guest100718 (Mar 27, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I always thought the traffic lights were simple

Green = Go
Red = Stop 
Amber = Go very quickly
		
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Thats the answer i gave my daughter the other day


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## guest100718 (Mar 27, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			Prats who don't used their handbrakes when sitting at a set of traffic lights, especially when it's dark and piddling down with rain.
Upper rear brake lights have the same wattage bulbs as rear fog lights and they are just as bright.
Does my head in to be sitting right behind somebody with their upper rear brake like blinding me.
		
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perhaps like me they are driving a car with hill start assist and an automatic handbrake....


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## Dan2501 (Mar 27, 2015)

Getting flashed for driving in the middle lane of an empty motorway at 60. Bloody BMW drivers.


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## pbrown7582 (Mar 27, 2015)

Dan2501 said:



			Getting flashed for driving in the middle lane of an empty motorway at 60. Bloody BMW drivers.



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:whoo:


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Cyclists side by side on country lanes who do not move to single file when cars are behind is my number one. I could write a book on it though, I am an angry motorist most of the time.
		
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There is a reason we do that and it's because of inconsiderate/impatient drivers. And the Highway Code says it's OK to do so.


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			There is a reason we do that and it's to annoy everyone
		
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EFA'd that for you.

I completely forgot about my hatred of most cyclists!


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## Khamelion (Mar 27, 2015)

When driver down the motorway towards road works and contra-flow, having a numb buts lorry driver block the outside lane, so nothing can get past, forcing everyone to queue for the two miles before the road works start and thus creating large tail backs for no reason.

Why not use both lanes and merge in turn as you get to the cones?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			There is a reason we do that and it's because of inconsiderate/impatient drivers. And the Highway Code says it's OK to do so.
		
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DanFST said:



			EFA'd that for you.

I completely forgot about my hatred of most cyclists!
		
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Next time you go impatiently bombing past a cyclist 6 inches from your wing mirror, just remember you are in a big metal box and we have bugger all protection.

If cyclists ride 2 abreast, it forces drivers to slow down and go round us when there is no oncoming traffic.


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## Khamelion (Mar 27, 2015)

People indicating to turn right or left, when sitting in a right or left turn only lane. 

You're sitting in a right turn only lane, we know which way you are going to turn, or those who sit in a right turn only lane, not indicating and then as the lights change and they start to make the turn, then bleedin indicate.

And then there are those people who stop at the side of the road, brake first, stop and then indicate, wrong order numb nuts.

Oh aye, the knobs who put their hazards on while being towed, how do the cars behind know which direction you are going to turn, telepathy. Hazards are for emergencies not for when you are being towed.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Next time you go impatiently bombing past a cyclist 6 inches from your wing mirror, just remember you are in a big metal box and we have bugger all protection.

If cyclists ride 2 abreast, it forces drivers to slow down and go round us when there is no oncoming traffic.
		
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Ha... the law does state that its ok but as you point out, there is very little chance of the driver getting hurt even if they smash directly into you. It might be an idea to use your head, get out of the way and the motorist will not feel the need to chop you hard when he/she pass you.

There have been 6 cyclist fatalities this year, lets not have any more because of the arrogance of cyclists who feel they need to teach motorists what the law is over what is smart.


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Next time you go impatiently bombing past a cyclist 6 inches from your wing mirror, just remember you are in a big metal box and we have bugger all protection.

If cyclists ride 2 abreast, it forces drivers to slow down and go round us when there is no oncoming traffic.
		
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You shouldn't be next to each other on narrow or busy roads anyway. So if the rules are obeyed it shouldn't make a difference. But I can see why you do it, make sure the fella you don't like is on the outside!

Takes the Michael tho when I'm on the country lane on the way to the club on a Sunday morning. And there's a fleet of 40 year old mens arses staring at me in their lycra, as they're 3 or 4 abreast and I can't get round.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Why are cyclists arrogant because they ride two a breast ? They have just as much a right on the road as a car. 

Why should a cyclist "get out of the way" just because a car wants to get past ?


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## Rooter (Mar 27, 2015)

Horses, Cyclists and generally anyone who hasn't paid road fund licence to be on the road. That included Prius drivers etc.

In the real world, what really gets me are the people that dont think any more that 5 meters in front of them, whether thats filtering round parked cars in residential roads, waiting until the last second to overtake a truck on the motorway etc.

As an ex BMW and Audi driver (bet that surprised a few of you!) but more so an ex motorcylclist, I think my road and hazard awareness is very good and usually avoid any "issues" before they happen as I can spot an idiot from 100yards +. Years of driving 19, Accidents 0.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			You shouldn't be next to each other on narrow or busy roads anyway. So if the rules are obeyed it shouldn't make a difference. But I can see why you do it, make sure the fella you don't like is on the outside!

Takes the Michael tho when I'm on the country lane on the way to the club on a Sunday morning. And there's a fleet of 40 year old mens arses staring at me in their lycra, as they're 3 or 4 abreast and I can't get round.
		
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Why are they taking the micheal ? They are breaking no laws and exercising their right to be on the road .


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## Rooter (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why are cyclists arrogant because they ride two a breast ? They have just as much a right on the road as a car. 

Why should a cyclist "get out of the way" just because a car wants to get past ?
		
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Whats the view when there is a perfectly good cycle path that is not being utilized. (and not just the MAMIL lot who will worry about popping their racing slicks)


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



*They are breaking no laws* and exercising their right to be on the road .
		
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You are wrong.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Whats the view when there is a perfectly good cycle path that is not being utilized. (and not just the MAMIL lot who will worry about popping their racing slicks)
		
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What's mamil ?! 

They still have a right to be on the road even if there is a cycle path not being used.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			You are wrong.
		
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Which law are they breaking ?


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## Rooter (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What's mamil ?! 

They still have a right to be on the road even if there is a cycle path not being used.
		
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Middle Aged Man In Lycra. Do they?

EDIT. Just googled it and the use of a cycle path is not mandatory.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Middle Aged Man In Lycra. Do they?
		
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Why wouldn't they have a right to be on the road ? Unless the law has changed ?


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## guest100718 (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			You are wrong.
		
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not that he'll admit it


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 27, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Horses, Cyclists and generally anyone who hasn't paid road fund licence to be on the road. That included Prius drivers etc.

In the real world, what really gets me are the people that dont think any more that 5 meters in front of them, whether thats filtering round parked cars in residential roads, waiting until the last second to overtake a truck on the motorway etc.

As an ex BMW and Audi driver (bet that surprised a few of you!) but more so an ex motorcylclist, I think my road and hazard awareness is very good and usually avoid any "issues" before they happen as I can spot an idiot from 100yards +. Years of driving 19, Accidents 0.
		
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My mrs drove into the back of someone a couple of week back,everytime im in the car with her I tell her she's too close to the car in front,does she listen? Nope. 
She's also got a couple of horses :-/


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## Rooter (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why wouldn't they have a right to be on the road ? Unless the law has changed ?
		
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Because they pay nothing toward the upkeep of the roads. While i pay over 300 pounds a year to drive my big 4x4. Ergo, they should get out of my way so i can drive my kids to school.


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which law are they breaking ?
		
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You were the one that objected to my post, surely you should know! 

I don't know numbers or anything, but the one that says about riding two abreast apart from certain situations.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Because they pay nothing toward the upkeep of the roads. While i pay over 300 pounds a year to drive my big 4x4. Ergo, they should get out of my way so i can drive my kids to school.
		
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Unfortuantly them not paying road tax doesn't stop them having the right to be on the road


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

Rooter said:



			EDIT. Just googled it and the use of a cycle path is not mandatory.
		
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Who the ruddy hell thought that was a good idea! I did not know that at all.


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## Rooter (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			You were the one that objected to my post, surely you should know! 

I don't know numbers or anything, but the one that says about riding two abreast apart from certain situations.
		
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Taken from .gov:

You should

keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear
keep both feet on the pedals
*never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends*
not ride close behind another vehicle
not carry anything which will affect your balance or may get tangled up with your wheels or chain
be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Ha... the law does state that its ok but as you point out, there is very little chance of the driver getting hurt even if they smash directly into you. It might be an idea to use your head, get out of the way and the motorist will not feel the need to chop you hard when he/she pass you.

There have been 6 cyclist fatalities this year, lets not have any more because of the arrogance of cyclists who feel they need to teach motorists what the law is over what is smart.
		
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I'm assuming this response is a windup?


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why are cyclists arrogant because they ride two a breast ? They have just as much a right on the road as a car. 

Why should a cyclist "get out of the way" just because a car wants to get past ?
		
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This was absolutely not what was said.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			You were the one that objected to my post, surely you should know! 

I don't know numbers or anything, but the one that says about riding two abreast apart from certain situations.
		
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http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-laws-according-to-highway-code.html?m=1

You said they are breaking the law 

It is legal to cycle two a breast but at times they are asked to show common sense on certain roads.


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## Pin-seeker (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why wouldn't they have a right to be on the road ? Unless the law has changed ?
		
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Wonder what Jeremy Clarksons views are on the subject.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm assuming this response is a windup?
		
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Absolutely not.


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## Rooter (Mar 27, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			Wonder what Jeremy Clarksons views are on the subject.
		
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I reckon he would punch a horse or something.


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## tugglesf239 (Mar 27, 2015)

TheDiablo said:



			Bus drivers thinking they have a right to pull out as soon as they indicate. I have serious anger issues with this!
		
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I hate this also

But i am led to believe they have priority?


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm assuming this response is a windup?
		
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Sadly I don't think it is. With the terrible state of some peoples driving, and the fact they are in a metal box. I'd just stay as far away as possible.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Taken from .gov:

You should

keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear
keep both feet on the pedals
*never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends*
not ride close behind another vehicle
not carry anything which will affect your balance or may get tangled up with your wheels or chain
be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted.
		
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All advisories etc but not "laws" I'm led to believe


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Absolutely not.
		
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Pity because with that sort of attitude you shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Because they pay nothing toward the upkeep of the roads. While i pay over 300 pounds a year to drive my big 4x4. Ergo, they should get out of my way so i can drive my kids to school.
		
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You are completely out of date! There is no longer such a thing as Road Fund Tax - it was eliminated in 1955.

Vehicle Tax is exactly that - a tax, which does not get ring-fenced for maintenance of roads! It goes straight to central funds!

There are plenty of vehicles for which the road tax is zero!


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



http://ukcyclelaws.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-laws-according-to-highway-code.html?m=1

You said they are breaking the law 

It is legal to cycle two a breast but at times they are asked to show common sense on certain roads.
		
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Again you are wrong. The link was off the GOV site rooter posted a minute ago. Rule 66.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Next time you go impatiently bombing past a cyclist 6 inches from your wing mirror, just remember you are in a big metal box and we have bugger all protection.

If cyclists ride 2 abreast, *it forces* drivers to slow down and go round us when there is no oncoming traffic.
		
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I assume this is a wind up?


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## Rooter (Mar 27, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			There are plenty of vehicles for which the road tax is zero!
		
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Exactly why i said Prius Drivers etc should all be in the same bucket as horses and cyclists.

The money from road tax goes into the big pot. Where does the money come from to build and maintain roads? Yup, you guessed it! The big pot!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 27, 2015)

Those eeejits who park on a double yellow lines (Blue Badge Holders excepted) usually outside of a pizza take-away - with their hazards on.  As if that makes it acceptable.  Just do what the rest of us do.  Park up and walk.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Pity because with that sort of attitude you shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.
		
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I passed a test to allow me to be on the road and I am insured. Anyone can cycle... should the anyone's be giving lessons to the license holders when there lives are very much more in the balance?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			Again you are wrong. The link was off the GOV site rooter posted a minute ago. Rule 66.
		
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It is not illegal to cycle two a breast - the rule 66 etc all advisories etc because you cannot be arrested etc for breaking the law if a cyclist rides two a breast.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I assume this is a wind up?
		
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Why would it be?

If I am riding single file on a 60 mph country road with a car approaching me and you come bombing up behind me, you will fly past just (hopefully) missing me.

If I'm riding 2 abreast in the same scenario, you either pull out and risk a head on collision (pretty stupid), hit a cyclist at speed (possible manslaughter) or slow down and wait (the correct option).


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It is not illegal to cycle two a breast - the rule 66 etc all advisories etc because you cannot be arrested etc for breaking the law if a cyclist rides two a breast.
		
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I never said it was. 

It would be much easier for you to say sorry and admit you are wrong. Then get into the debate of rules vs laws.


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



*Again you are wrong*. The link was off the GOV site rooter posted a minute ago. Rule 66.
		
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Er...No. the would 'should' should  be a decent enough clue!


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## Khamelion (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why are cyclists arrogant because they ride two a breast ? They have just as much a right on the road as a car. 

Why should a cyclist "get out of the way" just because a car wants to get past ?
		
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I agree cyclists have just as much right to be on the road as any car, and they should be punished accordingly when they think it's okay to ride through a red light, when they break the speed limit, when they get into the wrong lane to turn right because it's to busy and/or dangerous for them to make the manoeuvre.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It is not illegal to cycle two a breast - the rule 66 etc all advisories etc because you cannot be arrested etc for breaking the law if a cyclist rides two a breast.
		
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Cyclists should be able to cycle two a breast but they should drop back when a car is coming.


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			If I am riding single file on a 60 mph country road with a car approaching me and you come bombing up behind me, you will fly past just (hopefully) missing me.

If I'm riding 2 abreast in the same scenario, you either pull out and risk a head on collision (pretty stupid), hit a cyclist at speed (possible manslaughter) or slow down and wait (the correct option).
		
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I think Alex is right. 

Lots of people can't drive. Is it worth it? Sadly some idiot will think he can get past you, there will be less space for everyone and accidents will happen. Through no fault of the cyclist.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Why would it be?

If I am riding single file on a 60 mph country road with a car approaching me and you come bombing up behind me, you will fly past just (hopefully) missing me.

If I'm riding 2 abreast in the same scenario, you either pull out and risk a head on collision (pretty stupid), hit a cyclist at speed (possible manslaughter) or slow down and wait (the correct option).
		
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That you tell me I should wait makes me want to go... why should I wait for you, you are causing an obstruction to teach me something.

If you are single file I will consider you to the maximum, I will also keep a very close eye on where pot holes are and drain covers as if you have skinny wheels you will need to go round those obstructions. When I can see, having checked that you are not going to have a problem I will pass you and be well on my way.

Not as dumb as it sounds is it? How strange that it can work for us both?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			I never said it was. 

It would be much easier for you to say sorry and admit you are wrong. Then get into the debate of rules vs laws.
		
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Is said they are not breaking any laws by riding two a breast - you said I'm wrong - im still waiting to see why I'm wrong and which "law" they are breaking 

Post #49 is me saying they are breaking no law and post #51 is you saying im wrong 

So which law are they breaking to show im wrong ?


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Cyclists should be able to cycle two a breast but they should drop back when a car is coming.
		
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Why "should" they ? To please a motorist ? 

I would prefer to overtake with a wide berth two a breast to get past them quicker and safer


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## Imurg (Mar 27, 2015)

Glad to see the life being sucked out of a potentially interesting thread.......


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Why "should" they ? To please a motorist ? 

I would prefer to overtake with a wide berth two a breast to get past them quicker and safer
		
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I have made it clear... the driver is not going to die in any event! ... read #86.... its not hard!


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Glad to see the life being sucked out of a potentially interesting thread.......
		
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If a post asks people to moan they will moan, it was never going to be anything but this was it!


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I have made it clear... the driver is not going to die in any event! ... read #86.... its not hard!
		
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So because the driver is untouchable in his car then cyclists should just get out of their way ?

How about the motorist shows consideration to all users of the road and adjust their mentalilty when reaching cyclists and understand they also have a right to be on the road and to be aware they aren't surrounded by metal and to ensure their maximum safety - even if it means having to sit behind them for an extra minute or so until its safe to overtake giving them clear distance. Then there is no issues.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I have made it clear... the driver is not going to die in any event!
		
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I'm alright Jack  

Have you ever considered that for every cyclist on the road there is one less car, causing less congestion for you and more parking spaces when you get into busy town centres etc?


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So because the driver is untouchable in his car then cyclists should just get out of their way ?

How about the motorist shows consideration to all users of the road and adjust their mentalilty when reaching cyclists and understand they also have a right to be on the road and to be aware they aren't surrounded by metal and to ensure their maximum safety - even if it means having to sit behind them for an extra minute or so until its safe to overtake giving them clear distance. Then there is no issues.
		
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I am not getting Phil`ed sorry. Re read the entire thread, its all very clear and very simple. I should consider you going 10 MPH on a road where I can go 60? So what happens when I come round a blind bend going 60 and there your and your mate are side by side? No consideration issue, its a pure accident.... Cyclists just should be more careful. 6 are dead in less than 3 months of this year.... come on. That is someone child, mother, father.... It just does not have to happen.


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## Liverpoolphil (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I am not getting Phil`ed sorry. Re read the entire thread, its all very clear and very simple. I should consider you going 10 MPH on a road where I can go 60? So what happens when I come round a blind bend going 60 and there your and your mate are side by side? No consideration issue, its a pure accident.... Cyclists just should be more careful. 6 are dead in less than 3 months of this year.... come on. That is someone child, mother, father.... It just does not have to happen.
		
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Yes cyclists are killed through the lack of consideration towards them from drivers - you have just made it clear you don't consider them because they go slower than you so should basically get out of your way

Going round blind bends at 60 isn't clever regardless of cyclists - what if there iis a broken down car or an object in the road or a traffic jam or accident already


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			I am not getting Phil`ed sorry. Re read the entire thread, its all very clear and very simple. I should consider you going 10 MPH on a road where I can go 60? *So what happens when I come round a blind bend going 60 and there your and your mate are side by side?* No consideration issue, its a pure accident.... Cyclists just should be more careful. 6 are dead in less than 3 months of this year.... come on. That is someone child, mother, father.... It just does not have to happen.
		
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So you are unaware that you should be able to stop in the distance you can see up the road?


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I'm alright Jack  

Have you ever considered that for every cyclist on the road there is one less car, causing less congestion for you and more parking spaces when you get into busy town centres etc?
		
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You are just looking for a fight. You lost the fight as soon as you suggested that cyclists were trying to teach motorists a lesson. I am alright Jack as I am not blowing in the wind trying to teach hard metal objects a lesson... I try to be smarter than that. I have demonstrated in post #86 that I am very aware of the situation and that it does not have to be as hard as you CHOSE to make it.


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Is said they are not breaking any laws by riding two a breast - you said I'm wrong - im still waiting to see why I'm wrong and which "law" they are breaking 

Post #49 is me saying they are breaking no law and post #51 is you saying im wrong 

So which law are they breaking to show im wrong ?
		
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I never said they were riding two abreast. All I said was that it takes the Micheal, which you obviously don't think it does.    But it appears you are correct on the laws, apologies. I won't derail this thread any further.


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## PhilTheFragger (Mar 27, 2015)

Thread is getting argumentative and petty squabbles are breaking out
Can people please agree to disagree

Thanks


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## Wildrover (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			Why would it be?

If I am riding single file on a 60 mph country road with a car approaching me and you come bombing up behind me, you will fly past just (hopefully) missing me.

If I'm riding 2 abreast in the same scenario, you either pull out and risk a head on collision (pretty stupid), hit a cyclist at speed (possible manslaughter) or slow down and wait (the correct option).
		
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Or if like me you're in a truck which is much wider and accelerates much slower you are stuck behind them forever and a day whilst everyone else is stuck behind me.


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## guest100718 (Mar 27, 2015)

what about that car our mate Clarkson had on TG a few weeks back... with the drop down plough, that would do the trick!


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## Wildrover (Mar 27, 2015)

The cyclists who moan about drivers who then disobey every law in the book because it somehow doesn't apply to them. Red lights, one way streets etc. Especially the cretins with cameras on their helmets.

Cyclists who ride up the inside of the truck at a junction/lights, this scares me to death as there are massive blind spots in a truck.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



*You are just looking for a fight. You lost the fight as soon as you suggested that cyclists were trying to teach motorists a lesson*. I am alright Jack as I am not blowing in the wind trying to teach hard metal objects a lesson... I try to be smarter than that. I have demonstrated in post #86 that I am very aware of the situation and that it does not have to be as hard as you CHOSE to make it.
		
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I really don't understand where you get that from. All I've done is highlight what the Highway Code points out and explain what cyclists do to protect themselves from inconsiderate drivers. 

If you want to turn it into a 'fight' then carry on, I'm not interested.


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I really don't understand where you get that from. All I've done is highlight what the Highway Code points out and explain what cyclists do to protect themselves from inconsiderate drivers. 

If you want to turn it into a 'fight' then carry on, I'm not interested.
		
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Its over, you did not make good points, you shot your self in the foot at the start and your now trying to back out of it.  I believe I clearly demonstrated that I consider you in a very real way and if you would do the same there actually would not be an issue or this post.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

Alex1975 said:



			Its over, you did not make good points, you shot your self in the foot at the start and your now trying to back out of it.  I believe I clearly demonstrated that I consider you in a very real way and if you would do the same there actually would not be an issue or this post.
		
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No I've not shot myself in the foot. I've pointed out what is stated in the HC.

How about you bombing round a blind bend at 60mph? Top driving :thup:


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## c1973 (Mar 27, 2015)

Personally if I was on a bike riding two abreast then common courtesy to other road users would see me 'tucking in', either in front or behind the other bike to allow cars to pass. Not to much to ask is it? 

Courtesy still applies to all road users, yeah? 


A significant number of (not all) cyclists in my experience are ******s (it has to be said) and have very little regard for (knowledge of?) the highway code or in some cases their own safety. Undertaking, jumping lights when turning, cutting across traffic, cycling on pavements etc etc. 

Yes, they're vulnerable on the road but a lot of them (again not all) put themselves in danger. Let's not get carried away with the 'driver - bad, cyclist - good' mind set. 



My pet hate?  I've got two main ones.  

Folk not indicating. 
Folk not acknowledging they've made a mistake and its your ability as a driver that has prevented a collision.  Put yer hand up, it diffuses a lot of anger/tension and means there's less risk of road rage. It ain't difficult.


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			How about you bombing round a blind bend at 60mph? Top driving :thup:
		
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It's not breaking the law tho is it :clap:

This thread was fun, lets get it back on track! 

When you're in a traffic jam and you want to go right 3 or 4 cars up. And the one infront purposely blocks you to stop you overtaking and turning!


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Mar 27, 2015)

c1973 said:



			Personally if I was on a bike riding two abreast then common courtesy to other road users would see me 'tucking in', either in front or behind the other bike to allow cars to pass. Not to much to ask is it? 

Courtesy still applies to all road users, yeah? 


A significant number of (not all) cyclists in my experience are ******s (it has to be said) and have very little regard for (knowledge of?) the highway code or in some cases their own safety. Undertaking, jumping lights when turning, cutting across traffic, cycling on pavements etc etc. 

Yes, they're vulnerable on the road but a lot of them (again not all) put themselves in danger. Let's not get carried away with the 'driver - bad, cyclist - good' mind set. 



My pet hate?  I've got two main ones.  

Folk not indicating. 
Folk not acknowledging they've made a mistake and its your ability as a driver that has prevented a collision.  Put yer hand up, it diffuses a lot of anger/tension and means there's less risk of road rage. It ain't difficult.
		
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I agree with your points. I think it's important to differentiate between 'cyclists' and 'bike users'

Cyclists generally are pretty good. I cycle a lot in the New Forest where the roads are quiet, you wouldn't believe how many car drivers toot their horns or try to intimidate us when we are riding 2 abreast and there is NOTHING coming the other way. 

Bike riders on the other hand don't have a clue. Yes they go through red lights, undertake, ride on pavements, don't wear protective clothing etc. They get cyclists a bad name


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2015)

As true today as it was when it was created 65 years ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAZ_xu0DCg


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

drive4show said:



			I agree with your points. I think it's important to differentiate between 'cyclists' and 'bike users'
		
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I should edit my original post conversing with you that started all this. That is a much easier way of differentiating. It's Bike Users I hate. 

but I still hate the big arsed middle age men fleet of cyclists that get in my way every sunday! :rofl:


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## Alex1975 (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			I should edit my original post conversing with you that started all this. That is a much easier way of differentiating. It's Bike Users I hate. 

but I still hate the big arsed middle age men fleet of cyclists that get in my way every sunday! :rofl:
		
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It totally is not a thing! There is not cyclists and bike users... Unless drive4show is saying he is a bike user...


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## Smiffy (Mar 27, 2015)

guest100718 said:



			perhaps like me they are driving a car with hill start assist and an automatic handbrake....
		
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I drive a car with hill start assist and an automatic handbrake.
But when I pull up at a set of lights I apply the handbrake and take my foot off the foot brake.
RTFM.


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## guest100718 (Mar 27, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			I drive a car with hill start assist and an automatic handbrake.
But when I pull up at a set of lights I apply the handbrake and take my foot off the foot brake.
RTFM.
		
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Rtfm?


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 27, 2015)

Had to go to Hackney today. Managed to finally find somewhere to park that was 15 minutes walk away from were my meeting was. However all the surrounding streets that were covered by residents only permits were 3/4 empty.

What's that all about? Could the permit restrictions not be relaxed until say 4pm?

I rarely drive to London preferring to get our excellent train service. Today's experience highlighted why I don't bother. It's dreadful.


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## anotherdouble (Mar 27, 2015)

Roundabouts are junctions therefore you need to signal when turning left or right and not leave it to a Derren Brown mind reading exercise


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## Foxholer (Mar 27, 2015)

guest100718 said:



			Rtfm?
		
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Read the .... Manual!


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## guest100718 (Mar 27, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			Read the .... Manual!
		
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Meep Meep


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## Craigg (Mar 27, 2015)

Just cyclists really. Always in the way, make the rules up as they go along their merry way, mounting the pavement when it suits to save stopping at a red light,  overtaking on the inside. ......the list is endless really.


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 27, 2015)

Haven't read all posts so apologies if this has been said.

Total and utter edjits who when turning right at a junction position their vehicle in such a way that it is back some 3 feet from the dotted lines and too much to the left, and thus prevent those turning left to go about their business in a timely and  unhindered manner :rant:


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## upsidedown (Mar 27, 2015)

Had a good one today , driver entering a box junction when there was no exit so therefore held up the traffic as lights changed 

As for the cyclists moaners, well if you're journey is so important that you can not show consideration to your fellow road users then I suggest you leave a little bit earlier to allow for the road conditions that you might encounter , whether it be cyclists, slow road users or a tractor waiting to turn right just after a blind bend you've taken at 60 ( this may be terminal  )


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## bluewolf (Mar 27, 2015)

People, and there appear to be plenty on here, who believe that roads are solely built for them, and who complain bitterly about things that delay their journey by precious seconds. 
Where the feck are you going? Are you delivering a still beating heart to the hospital?? Set out earlier if your journey is so important.


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## Beezerk (Mar 27, 2015)

I do about 50,000 miles a year but what grates me has probably already been mentioned.

Idiots sitting in the outside line on a major 2 lane road (A19, A1 etc) so there's no one in the left hand lane for half a mile!
Those 4 lane bits on the motorways! Everyone just migrates across to the right one lane anyway!
Lorries in the 3rd lane of a 4 lane section of motorway!
Pensioners who accelerate from 60 to 90 because you dared get too close to their rear bumper!
Blokes on phones!
Women texting on phones!
That self righteous knob who's doing 49Mph in the outside lane of a 50Mph section of roadworks, oblivious (or not if he's a proper tw@t) that there's a huge line of traffic behind him!
Flatback "gypo" trucks with brushes sticking out of the metal bits at the back of the cab, you just know they don't give a flying hoof!

I need a lay down now!


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## ColchesterFC (Mar 27, 2015)

Surely if the cyclists want car drivers to give them as much room as possible they should ride in single file so that I can give them more room. If they are two (or more) abreast then I can't possibly give them the same amount of room.


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## bluewolf (Mar 27, 2015)

ColchesterFC said:



			Surely if the cyclists want car drivers to give them as much room as possible they should ride in single file so that I can give them more room. If they are two (or more) abreast then I can't possibly give them the same amount of room.
		
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In my experience, there are plenty of car/wagon/bus drivers who think that the best way to get around a cyclist is to give them about 6 inches of room and accelerate past. If cyclists are 2 abreast, the driver has to wait until it is safe to pass. There are wrongs and rights on both sides, but one side is far more likely to die in the event of an accident. 
In all honesty, how much time do people lose when behind cyclists? A minute at most? What's the rush?


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## upsidedown (Mar 27, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			That self righteous knob who's doing 49Mph in the outside lane of a 50Mph section of roadworks,
		
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In our local paper it was well documented how much money they'd collected in fines from motorists who exceeded the "average 50 speed limit " in the road works on the M54 , over Â£250,000 so always smile to myself when others whizz past me in them now .


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## Beezerk (Mar 27, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			In our local paper it was well documented how much money they'd collected in fines from motorists who exceeded the "average 50 speed limit " in the road works on the M54 , over Â£250,000 so always smile to myself when others whizz past me in them now .
		
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I know, on the A1 they get thousands a day apparently. Not from me though, set my cruise control at 54 and away I go


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## bluewolf (Mar 27, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			I know, on the A1 they get thousands a day apparently. Not from me though, set my cruise control at 54 and away I go 

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You must get all the chicks


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 27, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			I know, on the A1 they get thousands a day apparently. Not from me though, set my cruise control at 54 and away I go 

Click to expand...

See you're placing your trust on the ACPO guidelines - 10% + 2mph over before getting pinched. 

For me that's too close as I don't trust the guidelines. I've read that although suggested they don't need to be adhered to as such and that 54 can get done if they decide they want to. So you've guessed it, I'm the 49mph bloke, just to be on the safe side. Although I keep to the inside lane whilst the artics hammer by me at 54. Sorry Beezerk.:whoo:


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			For me that's too close as I don't trust the guidelines. I've read that although suggested they don't need to be adhered to as such and that 54 can get done if they decide they want to. So you've guessed it, I'm the 49mph bloke, just to be on the safe side.
		
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The Speedo in your car will read higher than your actual speed, so a 77 on the speedo is most likely a 70. 

You can be that 54 guy! Live a little!


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## bluewolf (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			The Speedo in your car will read higher than your actual speed, so a 77 on the speedo is most likely a 70. 

You can be that 54 guy! Live a little!
		
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its not always that much though. I checked my speedo using my bike GPS and it's only 2-3mph out. I'm not sure if it's an industry standard or not


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 27, 2015)

People who either do not indicate on roundabouts when turning right but then manage to indicate left as the turn off, or people who just indicate left when turning right on a roundabout.

Cyclists who use zebra crossings to cross a road, go through red lights and ride along a busy road beside a cycle path put there for their safety..........

People who use their fog lights all year round.

and of course middle lane hogers on motorways


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## DanFST (Mar 27, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			its not always that much though. I checked my speedo using my bike GPS and it's only 2-3mph out. I'm not sure if it's an industry standard or not
		
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Thats interesting, what speed did you test it at? As it should be a % rather than a certain mph. 

The only thing I know is that they cannot read lower, so always read more just incase, then tyres/wheels lots of things can have change that further.


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## upsidedown (Mar 27, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			its not always that much though. I checked my speedo using my bike GPS and it's only 2-3mph out. I'm not sure if it's an industry standard or not
		
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My GPS is 3 mph lower than car speedo .


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## bluewolf (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			Thats interesting, what speed did you test it at? As it should be a % rather than a certain mph. 

The only thing I know is that they cannot read lower, so always read more just incase, then tyres/wheels lots of things can have change that further.
		
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my GPS was reading 67 when the car was running at 70. Still a comfortable margin with the tolerances that the Blues allow. To be fair, I rarely break 70 anymore. I'm a dawdler these days


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			The Speedo in your car will read higher than your actual speed, so a 77 on the speedo is most likely a 70. 

You can be that 54 guy! Live a little!
		
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It's tempting... it really is. But I'm just too...too...too law abiding to live my life in the fast lane like you sophisticated city slickers.&#128516;&#128516;


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## daymond (Mar 27, 2015)

All pushbikes should be fitted with speed limiters set at 10mph when ridden on public roads. That will deal with the 30+mph lycra brigade.


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## daymond (Mar 27, 2015)

I believe, by law, ALL tachometers must read less than the true speed.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 27, 2015)

DanFST said:



			The Speedo in your car will read higher than your actual speed, so a 77 on the speedo is most likely a 70. 

You can be that 54 guy! Live a little!
		
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bluewolf said:



			its not always that much though. I checked my speedo using my bike GPS and it's only 2-3mph out. I'm not sure if it's an industry standard or not
		
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The speedometer in a car must not under-read and can over-read by a maximum of 10%; it will not necessarily be 10% as allowance has to be made for tyre wear which will change the rolling circumference and hence the reading over the life of the tyre.  Some manufacturers allow a variety of tyre sizes on the one vehicle hence have to cover all the bases.  They are a lot nearer the truth than they used to be.



bluewolf said:



			my GPS was reading 67 when the car was running at 70. Still a comfortable margin with the tolerances that the Blues allow. To be fair, I rarely break 70 anymore. I'm a dawdler these days 

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Be careful on the allowances; the wife's boss got a speed awareness course for 33 in a 30 at 1am, well under ACPO guidelines.


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## JohnnyDee (Mar 27, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			Be careful on the allowances; the wife's boss got a speed awareness course for 33 in a 30 at 1am, well under ACPO guidelines.
		
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If I might use the vernacular of the MC and the Rapper. 

"That's what I'm sayin!"

The ACPO guidelines should not be trusted and hence my 49mph in average speed motorway roadworks. My work depends upon me being able to drive and these days it is so easy to get disqualified if you're not careful.


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## USER1999 (Mar 27, 2015)

The GPS in my car agrees exactly with the speedometer , from 30 through to thoroughly unlegal speeds. I don't get where these theories of inaccuracy come from. It's 2015, not 1965


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## Beezerk (Mar 27, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			You must get all the chicks 

Click to expand...


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## la_lucha (Mar 27, 2015)

People who get into one lane instead of using both lanes and filtering when needs be. There's two lanes for a reason people. USE THEM!!


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## SocketRocket (Mar 27, 2015)

I hate it when people pull out around parked cars or cyclists into the path of oncoming traffic.   It's just mindless.

The other one is when you have parked cars on your side of the road ad there is oncoming traffic, you pull out round a few cars to get in a space a little further down and five other sheep follow you even though theres no where for them to pull in.

Hooooom!!!! Ting!!


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## Tiger man (Mar 27, 2015)

Wome. . . . . .


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## KenL (Mar 27, 2015)

People in the likes of range rovers who think their car will turn into a pumpkin if they don't drive in the outside lane of the motorway.

People who think it is OK to park in a blue badge space ever.

Chavs who throw their McDonalds litter out their cars wherever they see fit and those who flick their fag butt out the window instead of using the ashtray in their car.

...and relax!


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## DanFST (Mar 28, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			I don't get where these theories of inaccuracy come from. It's 2015, not 1965
		
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Because the car doesn't know how fast you are going, it only knows the rpm of the rotating wheel which it calculates against it's programmed circumference. 

The Speedo on a 2xx/45/17 tyre with 8mm of new tread will read 2% lower than one on the legal limit. That's not even mentioning tyre pressures. And the fact with a ford focus will come with 15 inch wheels, all the way up to 19. They will try and use tyre sizes that have similar circumferences to minimise the effect. 

Unless you are using Vbox, or a point to point laser, there's a high chance the gps you are using isn't reading the right speed either!


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 28, 2015)

murphthemog said:



			The GPS in my car agrees exactly with the speedometer , from 30 through to thoroughly unlegal speeds. I don't get where these theories of inaccuracy come from. It's 2015, not 1965
		
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Mfrs have to allow a margin of error. If they set the speedometer to be 100% accurate but some marginal error occurs then they could be sued if you pick up a driving ban for speeding thinking you are under the limit. The margin they allow is tight but very understandable. My car, according to gps, is really doing 67mph when the speedometer states 70. Makes sense to me in the world of litigation that we now live in.


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2015)

Beezerk said:



			That self righteous knob who's doing 49Mph in the outside lane of a 50Mph section of roadworks, oblivious (or not if he's a proper tw@t) that there's a huge line of traffic behind him!
		
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While I sympathise with you haste to get to your next accident, that tw@ is actually doing you a favour - by saving you money/points! And he's also doing the workforce in those roadworks - though there are plenty where there's nobody actually working! But he should indeed be in the inside lane so that hoons like you can zip past!

I've found that my speedo seems to match what everybody other 'law abiding' driver's reads too - spot on 50, or whatever! So we are all being mislead by the same amount.


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## 3565 (Mar 28, 2015)

Cracking arguements, agree to disagree.........:rofl:2 main protagonists goin side by side.........

anyway the thread, who'll admit they are a middle lane hogger...... Go on dare you? 
Mini Roundabouts, you give way to the right WHEN they are on the roundabout not as they are approaching it and you get 3 numpties looking at each other who is going to go first........ Do you want a letter to tell you to go?? 

There are others but back to the cycle thing,  I overtook (safely) a cyclist (not a bike user, he was 60'ish with Lycra ) nearing a queue of traffic at some lights and thought, he will undertake me, pull into the kerb so he can not get past I thought but the car in front of me had done that. Sure enough, oldie Lycra cyclist rode on the inside of me, saw he couldn't get past the car in front, hitched his Pinarello and his Lycra ass onto the grass verge, as he passed, glared thru his Oakley racing specs at the driver, rejoined the road and to the front of the queue. Lights changed he rode to the other side and pulled into a bus stop where 2 other cyclists cronies with their bling outfits were waiting for him, he stopped, got of his bike and turned and demonstrated to the driver, who did nothing wrong in how he was positioned, as he drove past...... Thought your not supposed to undertake vehicles in this country? 

Cyclist = kno..... Infractionnnnn


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2015)

I'm a little puzzled by the pretty much universal hatred of cyclists by motorists.

I'd like to know why motorists actually object to them. While I recognise that that it's another 'variable' that they have to consider, I'm inclined to believe that it's simply jealousy of their 'freedom' to make significantly more progress in cities than motorists do! I don't actually object to them disobeying some of the rules that motorists must obey - I've experienced 'turn left on Red' and it generally works - nor undertaking stationary or even slow moving traffic. Of course, in country lanes they can get in the way, but only for a short time and it's normally the motorist that is actually reckless in such 'confrontations'! 

I do have to confess a slight bias though. I would be a cyclist, but some sod stole mine, even though it was locked to a well lit cycle stand - next to a Railway Station! That's the 3rd occasion I've had one stolen from this sort of place! The next security measure will be a dirty great chain motorcycle lock!


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## Hobbit (Mar 28, 2015)

Driving rants?

None. 

20yrs ago when I went out on the road as a field service engineer I ranted for England every minute of every day. Now I just smile and then forget just as quickly.

BTW, I'm an Audi driver, and all non-Audi drivers are kn0bs!


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			I'm a little puzzled by the pretty much universal hatred of cyclists by motorists.

I'd like to know why motorists actually object to them. While I recognise that that it's another 'variable' that they have to consider, I'm inclined to believe that it's simply jealousy of their 'freedom' to make significantly more progress in cities than motorists do! I don't actually object to them disobeying some of the rules that motorists must obey - I've experienced 'turn left on Red' and it generally works - nor undertaking stationary or even slow moving traffic. Of course, in country lanes they can get in the way, but only for a short time and it's normally the motorist that is actually reckless in such 'confrontations'! 

I do have to confess a slight bias though. I would be a cyclist, but some sod stole mine, even though it was locked to a well lit cycle stand - next to a Railway Station! That's the 3rd occasion I've had one stolen from this sort of place! The next security measure will be a dirty great chain motorcycle lock!
		
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Don't know about country cyclists but as far as London goes, it's the stinking hypocrisy that comes with no small number of them; as was alluded to elsewhere in the thread, they will break every rule in the Highway Code yet expect everybody else to play by the rules, and are the self appointed judge & jury if they consider somebody else is it the wrong.  They complain about the lack of cycle facilities yet don't use the ones that there are or bomb down the footway when it suits, actually shouting at pedestrians to get out of the way.  Does that give you a clue? 

I know it is not all of them, but I would say I've encountered more ignorant cyclists than drivers in London.  It is actually that bad that on occasions when I have cycled to work in London and was stopped at red lights on a pedal cycle, motorists waiting at the same light felt that worthy of mention,which should give you an idea of the level of red light running.


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## huds1475 (Mar 28, 2015)

People who use kids of any age to nab a Parent & Child spot, for example, when little Timmy is 15 and clearly doesn't use a pushchair. 
And they KNOW they're being $Â¥*#% as they walk away with their eyes fixed firmly above everyone else's eye-level so they don't get pulled.

People who drive across both lanes of a two - lane roundabout.

Bus drivers pootling around @ 15 MPH. For this reason buses are the only vehicles that I won't let out ahead of me.


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			Don't know about country cyclists but as far as London goes, it's the stinking hypocrisy that comes with no small number of them; as was alluded to elsewhere in the thread, they will break every rule in the Highway Code yet expect everybody else to play by the rules, and are the self appointed judge & jury if they consider somebody else is it the wrong.  They complain about the lack of cycle facilities yet don't use the ones that there are or bomb down the footway when it suits, actually shouting at pedestrians to get out of the way.  Does that give you a clue? 

I know it is not all of them, but I would say I've encountered more ignorant cyclists than drivers in London.  It is actually that bad that on occasions when I have cycled to work in London and was stopped at red lights on a pedal cycle, motorists waiting at the same light felt that worthy of mention,which should give you an idea of the level of red light running.
		
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Well, I too have cycled extensively in London and haven't really seen an issue. I agree that there are occasional times when the footpath I've actually used the footpath, but I've really only done that when it's dangerous to use the road - and have always got back onto the road asap, also giving way to/thanking any pedestrians that might have been nearby. The only times it's been required is where cycle lanes disappear, so there's still a considerable way to go before Boris's dream of 'complete cycleways' throughout London (not just Cycle Superhighways) is a reality. 

You still haven't answered why the casual 'turn left on Red' is considered such a crime - to be noted when it doesn't happen. I believe that it should actually be legitimised in most cases - it can actually help motorist throughput (by clearing the mass of cyclists at the front the queue) at many intersections too! 

There's a semi-country road on one of my routes that I refuse to use from a certain point too. That's because, while I;m not a MAMIL, the stupidity of the design where it crosses - as opposed to passes - joining roads is ridiculous! And it just disappears 10 yards into the main 'danger area'! It's one of those shared foot/cycle traffic ones tht is perfect for foot traffic, but far from ideal, or even reasonable, for cyclists!


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## richart (Mar 28, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Driving rants?

None. 

20yrs ago when I went out on the road as a field service engineer I ranted for England every minute of every day. Now I just smile and then forget just as quickly.

BTW, I'm an Audi driver, and all non-Audi drivers are kn0bs! 

Click to expand...

 Much the same here, as I said another thread I can't stand poeple that moan.  I can make an exception for Audi drivers though.:thup:

I do feel that as I pay Â£500 a year road tax, I should have other drivers pull over and let me pass.

Never had a problem with cyclists, other than the ones that ride on pavements, and nearly knock me flying when walking past Sainsbury's. Oh no I am turning into a a moaner.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			You still haven't answered why the casual 'turn left on Red' is considered such a crime - to be noted when it doesn't happen. I believe that it should actually be legitimised in most cases - it can actually help motorist throughput (by clearing the mass of cyclists at the front the queue) at many intersections too!
		
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I believe i have;



Blue in Munich said:



			Don't know about country cyclists but as far as London goes, *it's the stinking hypocrisy* that comes with no small number of them; as was alluded to elsewhere in the thread, *they will break every rule in the Highway Code yet expect everybody else to play by the rules*, and are the self appointed judge & jury if they consider somebody else is it the wrong.  They complain about the lack of cycle facilities yet don't use the ones that there are or bomb down the footway when it suits, actually shouting at pedestrians to get out of the way.  Does that give you a clue? 

I know it is not all of them, but I would say I've encountered more ignorant cyclists than drivers in London.  It is actually that bad that on occasions when I have cycled to work in London and was stopped at red lights on a pedal cycle, motorists waiting at the same light felt that worthy of mention,which should give you an idea of the level of red light running.
		
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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			I believe i have;
		
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So not actually any proper reason! My 'jealousy' (envy may be a better description) description was probably appropriate. And that does cover most of the 'hypocrisy' - at least about the turn left on Red. The use of footpath is not to be encouraged, but is often forced, as it is on much of my High St!

Here's a vid of an incident that fortunately isn't typical! From about 45 secs http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...cked_by_white_van_man_in_hornchurch_1_3919752 Warning - contains strong language and violence!


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## NorfolkShaun (Mar 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			So not actually any proper reason! My 'jealousy' (envy may be a better description) description was probably appropriate. And that does cover most of the 'hypocrisy' - at least about the turn left on Red. The use of footpath is not to be encouraged, but is often forced, as it is on much of my High St!

Here's a vid of an incident that fortunately isn't typical! From about 45 secs http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...cked_by_white_van_man_in_hornchurch_1_3919752 Warning - contains strong language and violence!
		
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That guy needs locking up, end of.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			So not actually any proper reason! My 'jealousy' (envy may be a better description) description was probably appropriate. And that does cover most of the 'hypocrisy' - at least about the turn left on Red. The use of footpath is not to be encouraged, but is often forced, as it is on much of my High St!

Here's a vid of an incident that fortunately isn't typical! From about 45 secs http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...cked_by_white_van_man_in_hornchurch_1_3919752 Warning - contains strong language and violence!
		
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Yes, for a proper reason; red lights apply to all road users, until that changes then cyclists are as bound by then as any other road user.  If cyclists don't like that, petition Parliament to change the rules, but until then play by them.

Nothing whatsoever to do with jealousy, so your description was totally inappropriate, whereas as mine about the self appointed judge & jury fits quite well for your response.  Good afternoon.


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			Yes, for a proper reason; red lights apply to all road users, until that changes then cyclists are as bound by then as any other road user.  *If cyclists don't like that, petition Parliament to change the rules, but until then play by them.*

Nothing whatsoever to do with jealousy, so your description was totally inappropriate, whereas as mine about the self appointed judge & jury fits quite well for your response.  Good afternoon.
		
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The Poll Tax 'revolt' proved that social rebellion effect change far better than going through the 'normal' channels. In many ways it's like the assessment of an appropriate speed limit. In many (but by no means all) cases it can actually be self calculating from analysing the speeds actually registered - discounting the high speed hoons and the low-speed old duffers (as somewhere in the mid-section of the sample is the 'safe for the conditions' level). The fact that so many cyclists self-implement TLOR with very few, if any, disasters, indicates that it would be sensible to legitimise it.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 28, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Driving rants?

None. 

20yrs ago when I went out on the road as a field service engineer I ranted for England every minute of every day. Now I just smile and then forget just as quickly.

BTW, I'm an Audi driver, and all non-Audi drivers are kn0bs! 

Click to expand...


Like you, none.

After well over 1 million miles and 46 years driving I long ago realised that it just ain't worth getting worked up.

Except for Audi drivers, that is!!


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## Imurg (Mar 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			. The fact that so many cyclists self-implement TLOR with very few, if any, disasters, indicates that it would be sensible to legitimise it.
		
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This is one reason why the roads have become so dangerous for all road-users.
Deciding that the rules don't apply to you, whether you can perform the action safely or not, puts pressure on the rest of the network.
That goes for ALL road users - cars, bikes, trucks, buses and pedestrians.


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## Craigg (Mar 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			The Poll Tax 'revolt' proved that social rebellion effect change far better than going through the 'normal' channels. In many ways it's like the assessment of an appropriate speed limit. In many (but by no means all) cases it can actually be self calculating from analysing the speeds actually registered - discounting the high speed hoons and the low-speed old duffers (as somewhere in the mid-section of the sample is the 'safe for the conditions' level). The fact that so many cyclists self-implement TLOR with very few, if any, disasters, indicates that it would be sensible to legitimise it.
		
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And here in lies the road to Anarchy my friend!
I fancy a few law changes. I'd like to shoot burglars. If enough of us do it, do you think it will result in a change on the statute books....hmmmm. An ill thought out response I fear to a legitimate point.


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			Like you, none.

After well over 1 million miles and 46 years driving I long ago realised that it just ain't worth getting worked up.

*Except for Audi drivers, that is!!*

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It hasn't always been Audi drivers - and I'm an ex Audi (Diesel) driver (2 of them, both wonderful). BMW Drivers (and I drove 280k in one of those with few problems!) have always been the 'get out of my way type'. Early 90s Rover 820s (particularly Red ones) seemed to be the selfish guys (Salesmen?) then Volvos who would not move over followed by unbadged BMWs again - there must have been a concerted Sales effort at some stage. Audi Owner fault at that time tended to be hogging the middle lane or doing 60 in the left hand one! And, of course, Range Rovers, Discoverys & similar have always been right hand lane hogging buses!


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## DanFST (Mar 28, 2015)

Foxholer said:



			I'm a little puzzled by the pretty much universal hatred of cyclists by motorists.
		
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It's the way quite a few cyclists think the rules don't apply to them, yet will act like Demigods should a motorist offend them. You've already admitted breaking the law and riding on the pavement, you can try and legitimise it to yourself all you wish.

RE: turning on left on reds. How do you differentiate between the traffic changing patterns, and pedestrians crossing? What happens when you run through a red and knock someone off who's running across a crossing on a flashing green man? Devils advocate.


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## IainP (Mar 28, 2015)

Rooter said:



			Horses, Cyclists and generally anyone who hasn't paid road fund licence to be on the road. That included Prius drivers etc.

.
		
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Just curious:

Are BMW i3s allowed on the roads in your view?

What is the 4x4 that costs you so much road fund?


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## ScienceBoy (Mar 28, 2015)

I just try to drive safe and within my abilities, probably this annoys a fair few drivers on my commute. I cant drive beyond my ability so sometimes I have to make a compromise.

I stick to the rules, drive at a pace I can handle and generally just try to be aware of my surroundings for my own manoeuvres. Generally if something happens that causes someone to be annoyed, it is of their own making and my need to drive within my abilities.


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## IainP (Mar 28, 2015)

On a couple of road sections near me there are speed cameras, the speed limit is 50 MPH. Have lost count of times I have been following the car in front pretty much spot on 50, when a few yards before the camera they bang on the anchors down to 40 or 30. Obviously oblivious to the limit and just reacting to spotting a camera. Not fun.


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## Foxholer (Mar 28, 2015)

DanFST said:



			RE: turning on left on reds. How do you differentiate between the traffic changing patterns, and pedestrians crossing? What happens when you run through a red and knock someone off who's running across a crossing on a flashing green man? Devils advocate.
		
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All the proposals for TLOR highlight the requirement for pedestrian safety to be considered. There's plenty of info (and opinions) on t'internet.
I don't know what you mean by 'traffic changing patterns' in relation to TLOR though. 

TLOR works for motor vehicles in other countries. It worked very well back home - except for a couple of 'peculiar' intersections.


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## upsidedown (Mar 28, 2015)

Plenty of middle lane hoggers on M40 on way back from Winchester tonight , two solid lanes in 2 and 3 with 1 empty for me to drive in


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## Bazzatron (Mar 28, 2015)

People who aren't entitled to but use disabled parking spaces. Disgusting human beings.


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## JustOne (Mar 29, 2015)

Most (but not all) cyclists... especially those who think I can see them in their black jacket at 11pm with no lights on their bike.

Women drivers. Yep, just about all of them.... ESPECIALLY when roundabouts and motorways are involved.

Middle lane hoggers obviously!! << hate them the most.... all 21 million of 'em!! 

People on their phones, especially those in vans!!

Taxis.... most around my neighbourhood simply shouldn't be driving!

People who park outside schools.

Lorries that can't seem to get past each other (as someone said earlier the pratt on the inside lane just can't make himself take his foot off the gas for a moment to let the other guy in).

People who don't know what a giveway sign is... and pull out/merge anyway.

Motorcyclists who have a God given right to weave in traffic or squeeze their bike up the smallest gap to be first at the lights... woohoo!!

Anyone over 70 who drives.

Women drivers..... and cyclists....... again :ears:


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## hovis (Mar 29, 2015)

Bazzatron said:



			People who aren't entitled to but use disabled parking spaces. Disgusting human beings.
		
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Idle fat people who have a disabled badge but are physically able to walk get my goat.   They should make them park at the back!   They need the exercise


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 30, 2015)

As a past rush hour cyclist I have sympathy for cyclists and watch out for them - however...

Recently approached a junction where I was going to turn left but no oncoming traffic and nobody behind me so didn't indicate (yes I probably should have anyway- I know).  As I started to turn I glanced in my passenger side mirror just to check for cyclists and one had come tearing up the pavement side and was going to 'undertake' me - and though still some way behind me was gesticulating furiously at me - for not indicating.  

Well tbh - cyclist should be as aware as drivers have to be in respect of other roads users indicating or not indicating when approaching a junction.  When pulling out onto a road I don't trust any driver indicating to turn left down my road until he has slowed down and has actually started to turn - I have been hit before by such a driver going straight on as they forgot to turn their indicator off after their last LH turn!

So dear cyclist - not something to get irked with a driver about - road awareness - and you shouldn't have been going to undertake me in any case!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Mar 30, 2015)

Where there are single yellow lines both side of road - and drivers park opposite each other reducing road width sufficiently that cars can only drive past single file.  

Was such an issue in our town centre that the council changed single yellow on one side to double yellow - much to consternation of restaurants and other late-opening shops as this meant that cars couldn't park on road in evening outside their premises - and would have to park in one of the free (after 7pm) car parks and walk 5mins.  But that was the idiotic parkers that caused that!


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## Rooter (Mar 30, 2015)

IainP said:



			Just curious:

Are BMW i3s allowed on the roads in your view?

What is the 4x4 that costs you so much road fund?
		
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i3? nope, crush them.

I drive a volvo XC90.


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## rosecott (Mar 30, 2015)

hovis said:



			Idle fat people who have a disabled badge but are physically able to walk get my goat.   They should make them park at the back!   They need the exercise
		
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Might well be a cancer sufferer whose treatment causes bloating and weight increase - beware of uninformed assumptions.


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## IainP (Mar 30, 2015)

Rooter said:



			i3? nope, crush them.
		
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Heh heh - good consistency anyhow   :thup:



Rooter said:



			I drive a volvo XC90.
		
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Nice. 
Looks like the new one is a zero road tax vehicle though -> 2.0 T8 AWD Momentum 4wd Auto 5dr
http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/volvo/xc90/new-suv/20-t8-awd-momentum-4wd-auto_7381731/review

They are conspiring against you!

Hope I am allowed, as I do pay a tenner. So 5p per BPH for my part time 4WD :thup:


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## Rooter (Mar 30, 2015)

IainP said:



			Heh heh - good consistency anyhow   :thup:



Nice. 
Looks like the new one is a zero road tax vehicle though -> 2.0 T8 AWD Momentum 4wd Auto 5dr
http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/volvo/xc90/new-suv/20-t8-awd-momentum-4wd-auto_7381731/review

They are conspiring against you!

Hope I am allowed, as I do pay a tenner. So 5p per BPH for my part time 4WD :thup:
		
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LOL

The new ones look really nice, but too expensive! Will wait 2 years or so i think. And by the way, i own it for its seating capacity (have 4 kids, so need a 7 seater) and refuse to drive a people carrier, so it was a Q7, X5 or XC90 and value for money won with the volvo 2nd hand being about 15k cheaper than the equiv BMW or Audi.

Oh and i actually love electric cars if im honest, money no object I would be buying one of these: http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/modelx 7 seater and full electric, in "Insane mode" (which i think will be renamed when the PC mob see it) the saloon version does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, so the bigger heavier SUV will be about 4.5 i reckon!


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## chrisd (Mar 30, 2015)

HID and I were strolling the country lanes where we live one afternoon and walking two abreast facing any oncoming traffic. We saw a motorbike coming towards us on an otherwise clear road, just us and him. He went past really close at speed, turned round and came back and hurled the most outrageous volley of foul language at us for not walking single file as we were/are the cause of all motorbikers having accidents apparently. I did point out that we took up less room than a parked car but as he had obviously come from the pub we just walked on given that the abuse just got worse

So - ban all motorcyclists!


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## IainP (Mar 30, 2015)

IainP said:



			On a couple of road sections near me there are speed cameras, the speed limit is 50 MPH. Have lost count of times I have been following the car in front pretty much spot on 50, when a few yards before the camera they bang on the anchors down to 40 or 30. Obviously oblivious to the limit and just reacting to spotting a camera. Not fun. 

Click to expand...

Variation - was on a dual carriageway Sunday with the cruise on at around 74. Couple of lads in a Fiesta come tanking past, guessing 80-85. Then they spot the upcoming camera and slow down swiftly to under 60 I would imagine, but stay where they are (so I undertook as had little choice). 500 or so yards on they come past again a speed.


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## Foxholer (Mar 30, 2015)

IainP said:



			Variation - was on a dual carriageway Sunday with the cruise on at around 74. Couple of lads in a Fiesta come tanking past, guessing 80-85. Then they spot the upcoming camera and slow down swiftly to under 60 I would imagine, but stay where they are (so I undertook as had little choice). 500 or so yards on they come past again a speed.
		
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I always thought it was obligatory to get behind them and flash them as they passed through the lines - while being prepared for them to brake rapidly of course!


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 30, 2015)

chrisd said:



			HID and I were strolling the country lanes where we live one afternoon and walking two abreast facing any oncoming traffic. We saw a motorbike coming towards us on an otherwise clear road, just us and him. He went past really close at speed, turned round and came back and hurled the most outrageous volley of foul language at us for not walking single file as we were/are the cause of all motorbikers having accidents apparently. I did point out that we took up less room than a parked car but as he had obviously come from the pub we just walked on given that the abuse just got worse

*So - ban all motorcyclists!*

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Oi - you can cut that talk out! :angry:


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## chrisd (Mar 30, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			Oi - you can cut that talk out! :angry:
		
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Why was it you!!


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## c1973 (Mar 30, 2015)

chrisd said:



			HID and I were strolling the country lanes where we live one afternoon and walking two abreast facing any oncoming traffic. We saw a motorbike coming towards us on an otherwise clear road, just us and him. He went past really close at speed, turned round and came back and hurled the most outrageous volley of foul language at us for not walking single file as we were/are the cause of all motorbikers having accidents apparently. I did point out that we took up less room than a parked car but as he had obviously come from the pub we just walked on given that the abuse just got worse

So - ban all motorcyclists!
		
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If he actually stopped to give you abuse you should have pushed him and laughed at him trying to free his trapped leg from the bike lying on top of it.


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## chrisd (Mar 30, 2015)

c1973 said:



			If he actually stopped to give you abuse you should have pushed him and laughed at him trying to free his trapped leg from the bike lying on top of it. 

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Top idea except he was huge, ( mmmm could have been BIM)


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## Imurg (Mar 30, 2015)

chrisd said:



			So - ban all motorcyclists!
		
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Especially ones doing 148 down the M11 with a passenger..... even if its only for 15 months


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## c1973 (Mar 30, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Top idea except he was huge, ( mmmm could have been BIM)
		
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Hmmmm, sometimes discretion is indeed the better part of valour.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 30, 2015)

chrisd said:



			Why was it you!!
		
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Not guilty; mine's currently laid up  :angry:   Waiting for Useless Parcel Services to deliver a new battery and my address is apparently wrong, despite the fact they've delivered here beforeâ€¦â€¦ :rant:

If it was me I'd have stopped to help you find your ball (again)


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## Sats (Mar 30, 2015)

No indicators. t**sers


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## chrisd (Mar 30, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			If it was me I'd have stopped to help you find your ball (again) 

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Ever the gentleman!


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## bobmac (Mar 30, 2015)

Imurg said:



			Especially ones doing 148 down the M11 with a passenger..... even if its only for 15 months
		
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Is that all you got?


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## Imurg (Mar 30, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Is that all you got? 

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Ha!
Never even sat on a motorbike with the engine running - put myself in A&E too many times with a pushbike....gimme an engine and I'd have been gone a long time ago!


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## User62651 (Mar 31, 2015)

For me -
1. Tailgaiting - can't stand it when people feel the need to drive 3 yards behind you, especially when you're already in a line of cars so cannot get away from them, will nearly always use a layby to get them off my tail, just want them out of my road environment.
2. Drivers that brake on every corner even when whey're only doing 30/40 anyway on a 60 road. Just drive at a steady pace please, cars can go round corners!


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## ScienceBoy (Mar 31, 2015)

Sats said:



			No indicators. t**sers
		
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I think like me most people forget once or twice a week, I generally do but usually when it doest matter.

I am not going to go at a roundabout when someone isn't signalling as its not safe and I would be the one at fault, the poor people behind me wait as another person turns in without signalling...


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## Region3 (Mar 31, 2015)

1. Tailgating.
2. People who get in the wrong lane because the queue is shorter then expect to be let in.
3. Throwing rubbish out of the window.
4. Waiting to pull out to overtake until you are almost level with them.
5. Bus drivers.
6. Taxi drivers.
7. People who park on double yellow lines because they're "only going to be a minute", when a proper parking space is 50yds away.


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## vkurup (Mar 31, 2015)

Was waiting for a taxi to a station south of Manchester the other day.  Taxi got delayed by about 15 mins... Got into the cab and

Me: Looks like you had a busy day, running a bit late are we
Cabbie: Was caught behind school run and ******* women who cant drive.

I am sure he had seen worse..


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## Deleted member 18588 (Mar 31, 2015)

As (powered) two-wheels helps develop a greater awareness of weather and road surface conditions perhaps a good idea to ban all car drivers who have not experienced riding motor-bikes.


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## Blue in Munich (Mar 31, 2015)

MetalMickie said:



			As (powered) two-wheels helps develop a greater awareness of weather and road surface conditions perhaps a good idea to ban all car drivers who have not experienced riding motor-bikes.
		
Click to expand...

If only it were practical to implement I'd support that 100%.


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## Lord Tyrion (Mar 31, 2015)

As I would be too scared to go over 20mph, assuming I could get past the claustrophobic effect of putting on a helmet, I suspect this would not be a good experiment.


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## Rooter (Mar 31, 2015)

I am not allowed to ride motorbikes anymore... it has made me a safer driver in my opinion. I would say my hazard awareness is above forum average.


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## Beezerk (Mar 31, 2015)

Regarding tailgating, I hate it however it's become the norm now that any little gap you leave between yourself and the car in front is fair game for those knobs who go down the inside and cut in!
Even if the car cutting in can barely fit in the gap there seems to be a "the gap is there so it's mine" mentality now. Never used to be like that I'm sure.


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## triple_bogey (Mar 31, 2015)

Having a RWD car has its positives with dealing with tailgating. Spinning the wheels at stops soon produces a nice safe gap between you both.

People pulling out of junctions at the last second and not accelerating fast enough(or at all).


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## Whereditgo (Apr 5, 2015)

Interesting article that explains why cyclists may to motorists appear to 'hog' the road.......

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/cyclists-why-do-they-ride-in-the-middle-of-the-road-_62617


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 6, 2015)

Whereditgo said:



			Interesting article that explains why cyclists may to motorists appear to 'hog' the road.......

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-news/cyclists-why-do-they-ride-in-the-middle-of-the-road-_62617

Click to expand...

If they're passing a car I can see that car.  If they're passing a refuge I can see that refuge.  If the road is narrow I can see that as well.  That article actually insults the intelligence of any decent car driver.

Unfortunately it doesn't explain why they do it when none of the above apply, although I've probably worked that one out for myself.


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## Tashyboy (Apr 6, 2015)

Came back from Mablethorpe today. It's a wonder there's not more motorcyclists killed. Some of them are absolute nutters and was not suprised to see one was on the deck with blankets over him. (Hope he's ok).
gets home and faffing about in garden and cars are thrashing about on rd that runs alongside back garden. it's a 30mph. daughter rings me and tells me road has been blocked off. A car was on its roof in someone's back garden in three pieces. She could not recognise the cars make. What's up with some people.


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## Whereditgo (Apr 7, 2015)

Blue in Munich said:



			If they're passing a car I can see that car.  If they're passing a refuge I can see that refuge.  If the road is narrow I can see that as well.  *That article actually insults the intelligence of any decent car driver.*

Unfortunately it doesn't explain why they do it when none of the above apply, although I've probably worked that one out for myself.
		
Click to expand...

No it doesn't, it describes what most cyclists encounter from *inconsiderate, impatient, aggressive or unintelligent* drivers on most, if not every, ride out and the methods employed by those cyclists to protect themselves. Intelligent and considerate road users are rarely a problem to anyone!

The fact that the road is narrow, the car driver can see that, can also see the vehicle approaching on the opposite carriageway and can even work out that all 3 will arrive at the same section of road at the same time, doesn't prevent the type of driver described above from bullying his way past the cyclist, it may inconvenience him slightly to be delayed for a few seconds......it's a damned sight more inconvenient to the cyclist and his family when the actions of the driver result in contact.

I've had a car driver stop and threaten me with physical harm after he broke his door mirror on my elbow........he did change his mind about that one when I unclipped and stood back up!


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## Lord Tyrion (Apr 7, 2015)

Tashyboy said:



			Came back from Mablethorpe today. It's a wonder there's not more motorcyclists killed. Some of them are absolute nutters and was not suprised to see one was on the deck with blankets over him. (Hope he's ok).
gets home and faffing about in garden and cars are thrashing about on rd that runs alongside back garden. it's a 30mph. daughter rings me and tells me road has been blocked off. A car was on its roof in someone's back garden in three pieces. She could not recognise the cars make. What's up with some people.
		
Click to expand...

There was a piece on our local news last night about motorcyclists in N.Yorkshire. Apparently it is a great place to ride but unfortunately it also has many fatalities. They interviewed a few bikers and they came out with the same phrase. "ride within your limits". Too many accidents occur when riders get too carried away with a flowing road and let the bike and road get out of control. I am near to a road in Northumberland, A697 for those bikers amongst you, which attracts a lot of bikers at weekends and it doesn't take long to be on it to understand why so many crash. 

Before any angry bikers come on, I am well aware that car drivers are to blame for many crashes and I am not excusing bad driving that does not take notice of those on two wheels.


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## c1973 (Apr 7, 2015)

No lights. No reflectors. No hi-vis. Yep, a lycra clad cyclist on a busy bypass this morning in poor visibility.  

I would/should have been irate, but she had a lovely bottom so I'll cut her some slack.


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## Blue in Munich (Apr 7, 2015)

Whereditgo said:



			No it doesn't, it describes what most cyclists encounter from *inconsiderate, impatient, aggressive or unintelligent* drivers on most, if not every, ride out and the methods employed by those cyclists to protect themselves. Intelligent and considerate road users are rarely a problem to anyone!

The fact that the road is narrow, the car driver can see that, can also see the vehicle approaching on the opposite carriageway and can even work out that all 3 will arrive at the same section of road at the same time, doesn't prevent the type of driver described above from bullying his way past the cyclist, it may inconvenience him slightly to be delayed for a few seconds......it's a damned sight more inconvenient to the cyclist and his family when the actions of the driver result in contact.

I've had a car driver stop and threaten me with physical harm after he broke his door mirror on my elbow........he did change his mind about that one when I unclipped and stood back up!
		
Click to expand...

A few quotes from your chosen article;

"See those potholes? Not good for your suspension, are they?"

"Cyclists are expert pothole - spotters. Use this inside knowledge to prevent costly damage to your car's suspension."

"Remember, motorists - unless their cars concertina like Autobots from the Transformers movie www.imdb.com/title/tt0418279/ - ride two abreast all the time, even when driving solo."

"Cyclists often "block the road" in order to save their lives, and possibly yours, too."

About the author;

"He drives a Nissan Note "but not very often." He's writing a history book on motoring's cycling beginnings, Roads Were Not Built For Cars."

A useful contribution to the education of motorists?  Or a patronising & condescending stereotyping of all motorists?  

I'm more than happy to listen to any advice that might improve my understanding of the cyclist's lot, but I'm not prepared to be spoken down to in that tone.


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