# Lateral weight shift in downswing ** Diagram included **



## One Planer (Nov 5, 2013)

A quick question on the lateral weight shift at the start of the downswing.

Should your weight move laterally along your target line, while the hips and shoulders continue to turn through?

Or.

Should your weight shift, again, laterally but instead of moving parallel to your target line, moves fractionally left.

The diagram explains it a little better (... I hope  ):







I would also add this is strictly a question about the direction of weight transfer starting the downswing and *not* a rotation question.


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## duncan mackie (Nov 5, 2013)

'weight' cannot move anywhere that there isn't some part of a foot


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## Foxholer (Nov 5, 2013)

duncan mackie said:



			'weight' cannot move anywhere that there isn't some part of a foot
		
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<pedant mode>
If you had stated 'support through a foot' I'd be more inclined to agree. And even then, it's not absolutely cut-and-dried - think og Gary Player's 'walk through the shot' that moves the weight (CofG) outside the left foot, then moves the right foot to avoid falling over - as that's what would happen otherwise.

But as posted, I'd disagree. Explain how we walk/run otherwise.

</pedant mode>


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## One Planer (Nov 5, 2013)

Ok, point taken, I'll clarify.

Should the hips move laterally to the target or left of target?


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## Region3 (Nov 5, 2013)

Gareth said:



			Should the hips move laterally to the target or left of target?
		
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Yes.

As I understand it, laterally initially, then left to create some room.


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## garyinderry (Nov 5, 2013)

I was watching some videos on this bump last night.  something I do not have in my swing at all at present.  without it I keep getting stuck when attempting to let the hands drop.  drop where I asked myself?  I think I understand now.  need some range / course time.

heres the vids I was watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZRHeumkUN8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixPSMG1m9Sc


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## Birchy (Nov 5, 2013)

So after watching them videos we want a lateral move to the target to start the downswing then as we unwind the left hip will obviously go left as the club comes through?


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## One Planer (Nov 5, 2013)

Region3 said:



			Yes.

As I understand it, laterally initially, then left to create some room.
		
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This was my original point Gary.

I know the hips turn out of the way, but when the down swing starts, where do the hips go(?) laterally or fractionally left(?) (Which you answered :thup: ), hence the "This is not a rotation question" remark.


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## Foxholer (Nov 5, 2013)

Here's an area where there tends to be a slight difference between the way 1-Planers and 2-Planers move.

2-Planers will tend to have more of a bump than 1-planers. 

Not the word 'tend'!

I believe the 'cause' is to create the room for the arms to get back (drop) onto plane without casting. This (sequencing/timing) is the area where 2PS is 'higher maintenance' than 1PS.


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## Region3 (Nov 5, 2013)

Gareth said:



			This was my original point Gary.

I know the hips turn out of the way, but when the down swing starts, where do the hips go(?) laterally or fractionally left(?) (Which you answered :thup: ), hence the "This is not a rotation question" remark.
		
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I'm not sure if I was right or not, but it rings a bell that what I described is what I'd read somewhere.

With my own swing I'm all over the place again, not knowing what I do. I've hit some of my best shots recently trying to "feel" that the left hip never turns behind the right one. I know that can't happen, but it's how it feels. I wish I didn't care!!


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## One Planer (Nov 5, 2013)

Region3 said:



			I'm not sure if I was right or not, but it rings a bell that what I described is what I'd read somewhere.

With my own swing I'm all over the place again, not knowing what I do. I've hit some of my best shots recently trying to "feel" that the left hip never turns behind the right one. I know that can't happen, but it's how it feels. I wish I didn't care!! 

Click to expand...

Sounds similar to a path I've adopted Gary.

Since I've done similar to you describe, I've not hit one single pull (My bad shot).


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## AmandaJR (Nov 5, 2013)

I've been coached that the first movement is lateral towards target and then rotation - the latter will happen with the momentum of the swing plus it can't keep moving laterally or you'd fall over! If I rotate my hips from the top then the right hip fills the space I want my arms to drop into...

If I get the left hip moving towards the target then a lot of other essentials fall into place and I nail it. I do find it a hard movement to always feel though.


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## Tommo21 (Nov 5, 2013)

Gareth said:



			A quick question on the lateral weight shift at the start of the downswing.

Should your weight move laterally along your target line, while the hips and shoulders continue to turn through?

Or.

Should your weight shift, again, laterally but instead of moving parallel to your target line, moves fractionally left.

The diagram explains it a little better (... I hope  ):







I would also add this is strictly a question about the direction of weight transfer starting the downswing and *not* a rotation question.
		
Click to expand...

Watch this...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjE8IM-ivV8


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## brendy (Nov 5, 2013)

Jeepers Gareth, how can you even hit the ball with all this bouncing about between your ears.
Smooth back and welly it fella.



Gareth said:



			A quick question on the lateral weight shift at the start of the downswing.

Should your weight move laterally along your target line, while the hips and shoulders continue to turn through?

Or.

Should your weight shift, again, laterally but instead of moving parallel to your target line, moves fractionally left.

The diagram explains it a little better (... I hope  ):







I would also add this is strictly a question about the direction of weight transfer starting the downswing and *not* a rotation question.
		
Click to expand...


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## AmandaJR (Nov 5, 2013)

Tommo21 said:



			Watch this...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjE8IM-ivV8

Click to expand...

or... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHuyVf7ulKE


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## Tommo21 (Nov 5, 2013)

AmandaJR said:



			or... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHuyVf7ulKE

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Yeh..thats a good one as well.


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## AmandaJR (Nov 5, 2013)

Tommo21 said:



			Yeh..thats a good one as well.
		
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Something I need to do with 2 sticks and really feel my hip bump the left one on the way down (and not the right one on the way back)!


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## chrisd (Nov 6, 2013)

AmandaJR said:



			Something I need to do with 2 sticks and really feel my hip bump the left one on the way down (and not the right one on the way back)!
		
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Ah Amanda, are you left or right handed?.


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## garyinderry (Nov 6, 2013)

Region3 said:



			I'm not sure if I was right or not, but it rings a bell that what I described is what I'd read somewhere.

With my own swing I'm all over the place again, not knowing what I do. *I've hit some of my best shots recently trying to "feel" that the left hip never turns behind the right one.* I know that can't happen, but it's how it feels. I wish I didn't care!! 

Click to expand...

can you explain what you mean by this gary?    its not clicking with me!


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## garyinderry (Nov 6, 2013)

chrisd said:



			Ah Amanda, are you left or right handed?.
		
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sounds like right handed from the description!


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## Region3 (Nov 6, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			can you explain what you mean by this gary?    its not clicking with me! 

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This might not make any sense because it's just a feeling and jumbled thoughts in my swiss-cheese-like brain, but I'll try to explain my thought process.

The biggest (imo) fault I had from when I started the game as a kid was early extension ie. standing up and losing spine angle through the downswing. I started the game around 12 or 13 and didn't have it pointed out to me for 30 years so it's a battle to eliminate it.

After video-ing myself at the range and slow motion swings in the garden, it looked to me like the problem was that instead of turning my left hip away from the ball, I was turning my right hip towards the ball on the downswing into the space where my hands should be coming through = over the top (hands no choice but to go outside) + early extension (standing up to retain balance as my weight has shifted forwards).

I tried all sorts of drills and swing thoughts to prevent it happening, but the best one so far has been to imagine that my right hip stays further away from the ball than the left one ie. resist the lower body turning.
Either this really happens and I have another horrendous fault that offsets it, or it really doesn't happen but the feeling works for me. I hope it's the latter.

I can tell when it's worked because the feeling through the shot is something else. Through impact I can really feel my spine angle still there, the club automatically comes through to a really full finish and I end up well balanced. It feels like a proper golf swing but is hard to explain.

I hope that makes at least a little sense.


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## garyinderry (Nov 6, 2013)

I understand a bit, I think...


im just getting to grips all this action.   I once heard that rory got his power from firing his hips.  so im out of the course firing the hips only to be then told, no mate, you are spinning out!


you cant win in this game! :rofl:


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## Region3 (Nov 6, 2013)

garyinderry said:



			I understand a bit, I think...


im just getting to grips all this action.   I once heard that rory got his power from firing his hips.  so im out of the course firing the hips only to be then told, no mate, you are spinning out!


you cant win in this game! :rofl:
		
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You definitely need to turn them. I'm not trying to stop them turning, but imagining I am seems to be helping me. Say the same thing to someone else with a different problem and it'll ruin them. That's why imo 'general swing tips' in magazines are a bad idea.

What I have = right hip moves towards ball, left hip stays same distance away.
What I want = right hip stays same distance away from ball, left hip gets further away.

Both are turning the hips but produce very different swings.

There's a Ben Hogan piece of advise about keeping your backside against a wall (or sheet of glass, or something) that is relayed on lots of different websites and by different people.

Just found one on Youtube. Maybe this will explain better than I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWbZoIjEUmw&list=PL33MNhJzYBZDSuc2Bu1e3lN5FQriAoO4b&index=3


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## garyinderry (Nov 6, 2013)

I hear what you are saying. ill get a proper look at this later. got to go


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## AmandaJR (Nov 6, 2013)

Right handed Chris...


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## JustOne (Nov 7, 2013)

Interesting question Gareth.... I'm not sure the answer really matters... what is an issue is that once the hips are turned and you ask people to move laterally they generally move to the right of the BLUE line in your picture, outwards towards the ball.

If you take your picture and say BLUE line then people would possibly interpret that as the right hip staying back (which is good) and if you said the RED line then I'd bet that people would have their right hip moving outwards towards the ball too much as they'd misinterpret the idea of where the weight is shifting and translate that into an actual movement.

My answer would be that the weight moves down the red line (ending up on/towards the left heel).... whether you need anything more than a decent swing to achieve that is where you could find argument.


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## One Planer (Nov 8, 2013)

JustOne said:



			Interesting question Gareth.... I'm not sure the answer really matters... what is an issue is that once the hips are turned and you ask people to move laterally they generally move to the right of the BLUE line in your picture, outwards towards the ball.

If you take your picture and say BLUE line then people would possibly interpret that as the right hip staying back (which is good) and if you said the RED line then I'd bet that people would have their right hip moving outwards towards the ball too much as they'd misinterpret the idea of where the weight is shifting and translate that into an actual movement.

My answer would be that the weight moves down the red line (ending up on/towards the left heel).... whether you need anything more than a decent swing to achieve that is where you could find argument.
		
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If I move my hips down the red line. I hit a pull.

If I move my hips laterally, but still allow my shoulders and hips to rotate, I don't hit the pull.

I must be a strange case :rofl:


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## JustOne (Nov 8, 2013)

Gareth said:



			If I move my hips down the red line. I hit a pull.

If I move my hips laterally, but still allow my shoulders and hips to rotate, I don't hit the pull.

I must be a strange case :rofl:
		
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It's not about your hips though... it's what your shoulders are doing.


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## One Planer (Nov 8, 2013)

JustOne said:



			It's not about your hips though... it's what your shoulders are doing.
		
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To start the downswing, if my hips followed the red line, wouldn't the line of my shoulders also be changed?


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## JustOne (Nov 8, 2013)

Gareth said:



			To start the downswing, if my hips followed the red line, wouldn't the line of my shoulders also be changed?
		
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No because the red line depicts your WEIGHT and not the direction/turn of your hips, as I said in post #26....





			they'd misinterpret the idea of where the weight is shifting and translate that into an actual movement.
		
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made this crap pic.....

B represents a LATERAL shift from A

D represents a DIAGONAL shift from C







The hips aren't 'opening'....


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## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2013)

I think that the golf swing is made up of conscious and unconscious movements. Some things that you ought to be thinking about and some things that just happen as a result of getting the conscious bits right. I put weight transfer, hip slide, hip bump, lateral shift, firing hips, and other mumbo jumbo into the unconscious thought category. IMHO.


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## JustOne (Nov 8, 2013)

^
^
I agree. Throw a dart at a dart board and you don't have to think much about it, but if you're crap at it then perhaps you have to analyse what you're doing. When you start to break down what you're doing then the individual components don't make much sense as it's the 'whole' that matters. BUT, talking about the individual components isn't wrong.... only to those who don't want to talk about individual components.


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## sawtooth (Nov 8, 2013)

JustOne said:



			^
 BUT, talking about the individual components isn't wrong.... only to those who don't want to talk about individual components.
		
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No its not wrong I agree with you but it does depend on what individual components you would be talking about. Basic individual components or advanced stuff that arguably should be happening involuntarily?


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## JustOne (Nov 8, 2013)

sawtooth said:



			No its not wrong I agree with you but it does depend on what individual components you would be talking about. Basic individual components or advanced stuff that arguably should be happening involuntarily?
		
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Things can only happen properly 'involuntarily' if you've set them up correctly to do so... if not you should 'involuntarily' do something different.


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## Millbrook (Nov 11, 2013)

Gareth,

Try Dan Whitakers video on the transition;
http://danwhittakergolf.com/

Presuming that you are not talking about swaying then the lateral shift is contained in the rotation.
Weight goes in the direction of the blue line and ends up on the red line as the rotation finishes.

I cannot get my head round how I could shift weight along the red line alone.

Regards


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## garyinderry (Nov 11, 2013)

dan is fast becoming my new fav internet pro!    :thup:


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## SocketRocket (Nov 12, 2013)

Gareth.
When at the top of your backswing with your back facing the target it would be quite difficult to move your hips in a diaginal direction.  I would start by moving my left knee over my left foot, this will initiate the lateral weight shift of the hips while the shoulders are still turned, the arms will drop down to bring the club into the slot, I would then start to rotate my hips, shoulders and torso through.


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