# Hard Hitting Motorbike Video



## NorfolkShaun (Sep 7, 2014)

Norfolk / Suffolk police have released this video of a crash where a motorbike rider was killed, at the request of his family this video has been produced to raise awareness of accidents involving motorcycles.

This accident happened on the turn off to my golf club from the main road, this is a terrible junction which has had more than it's fair share of accidents. In fairness I should use this junction to access my club but go round a different route to avoid it.

I understand the bike and car had around seven seconds to react prior to impact. 

I hope this does not offend anyone but this really does make you think. People just need to slow down, we all make mistakes sadly this persons mistake cost a life.


http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/video_mother_allows_release_of_hard_hitting_footage_of_her_son_s_motorcyle_death_on_a47_1_3757629


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## anotherdouble (Sep 7, 2014)

What more can you say..


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## Dellboy (Sep 7, 2014)

Very sad, also feel sorry for the car driver, who faced charges and was convicted.


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## brysoni23 (Sep 7, 2014)

Sad stuff all around. 
Looked to be going very fast that bike


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 7, 2014)

brysoni23 said:



			Sad stuff all around. 
Looked to be going very fast that bike
		
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Police said average speed of 97.....


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 7, 2014)

Dellboy said:



			Very sad, also feel sorry for the car driver, who faced charges and was convicted.
		
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He was largely responsible for the accident so rightly prosecuted and convicted. Biker didn't help himself though, was going way too fast for the road layout. 

Hope the video helps encourage bikers to watch their speed and ride defensively and other road users to take proper observation when manoeuvring.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			He was largely responsible for the accident so rightly prosecuted and convicted. Biker didn't help himself though, was going way too fast for the road layout. 

Hope the video helps encourage bikers to watch their speed and ride defensively and other road users to take proper observation when manoeuvring.
		
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He was going way too fast for any road layout.


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## Rooter (Sep 7, 2014)

Wow (not in a good way) have shared with my bro who is the editor of a bike mag. If it saves 1 life then happy days. Real respect to his mum and family for allowing the footage to be released. Been to too many funerals from biking, it's like a drug though, you know the risks but the feeling is epic.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 7, 2014)

Pin-seeker said:



			He was going way too fast for any road layout.
		
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True enough, but especially going past a junction.


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## Piece (Sep 7, 2014)

Sad. Doing 97 over a junction on a single carriageway? Madness. And unfortunately, not the first nor last time we'll hear this type of story.


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 7, 2014)

Find it hard to see how the car driver can be held responsible considering the speed of the bike

There but for the Grace of god go any one of us

Sad event, but so easily avoidable


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 7, 2014)

philthefragger said:



			find it hard to see how the car driver can be held responsible considering the speed of the bike

there but for the grace of god go any one of us

sad event, but so easily avoidable 

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smidsy


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			smidsy
		
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At that speed he possibly didn't . Honest answer


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			smidsy
		
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Agree with this, but it does not help. 

The road is down hill and long straight with trees foliage either side often into the sun too, easy to understand how the car driver did not see him especially at that speed, again there was a comment in the inquest that they were visible to each other for seven seconds due to the speed.


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## Imurg (Sep 7, 2014)

PhilTheFragger said:



			Find it hard to see how the car driver can be held responsible considering the speed of the bike

There but for the Grace of god go any one of us

Sad event, but so easily avoidable 

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Looks to me like the car driver totally misjudged the oncoming speed and distance - which, with the bike doing nearly a ton, isn't surprising at all.
Unfortunately, I see bikers doing this sort of thing all the time. It's a rarity to see a bike just keeping pace with traffic rather than constantly overtaking. I witnessed a biker pulling wheelies in Aylesbury rush-hour on Friday....
They might be in total control of their bike but their excess speed makes judgements by others virtually impossible..
Whilst I would never say that anyone deserves this, when there is such blatant disregard for speed limits it can't be a surprise when this kind of thing happens.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 7, 2014)

The sort of reckless riding you can see any Sunday on any country road by these idiots on the bike equivalent of F1 cars. Not even a chance of staying even near speed limits and when this happens it's the drivers fault.....I don't think so. From what I saw in the video he was lucky to have 22 years riding under his belt.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 7, 2014)

I'm not defending the biker, at that speed he was an accident waiting to happen. But the driver admitted that he didn't see him, or the car behind him. So it's not a case of misjudging the speed, he didn't take adequate observation before turning.

As a cyclist and biker (currently without a bike) that is an altogether too common occurrence.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			As a cyclist and biker (currently without a bike) that is an altogether too common occurrence.
		
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Similar thing, cyclist this time so different speeds and non-fatal thankfully

http://youtu.be/n3BLwcyDwuo


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## tugglesf239 (Sep 7, 2014)

Thats awful 

Terrible for the family, biker and poor sod who will live with that for the rest of their life.

Did the bike have its headlight on? Only ask because it was a black motorcycle, on a fairly overcast (looking) day, doing a ton.

I don't know the road, or the local area, but all that added together makes me feel especially sorry for the car driver.

One minute they are looking at a hatchback doing normal speeds. Before they realize it a bike has overtaken it and is inbound at a rapid pace.

Sickening video really


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			smidsy
		
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PhilTheFragger said:



			At that speed he possibly didn't . Honest answer
		
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NorfolkShaun said:



			Agree with this, but it does not help. 

The road is down hill and long straight with trees foliage either side often into the sun too, easy to understand how the car driver did not see him especially at that speed, again there was a comment in the inquest that they were visible to each other for seven seconds due to the speed.
		
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Excuse my ignorance but what is "_smidsy_"? Some people obviously know but I have absolutely no idea.


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## tugglesf239 (Sep 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			Excuse my ignorance but what is "_smidsy_"? Some people obviously know but I have absolutely no idea.
		
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"Sorry mate, i didn't see you"


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 7, 2014)

tugglesf239 said:



			"Sorry mate, i didn't see you"
		
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OK cheers. 

Seems a bit of a flippant comment for an incident in which someone died. But that's just my opinion.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 7, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			OK cheers. 

Seems a bit of a flippant comment for an incident in which someone died. But that's just my opinion.
		
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It's a well known and used term amongst cyclists and motorcyclists to vent frustration at motorists who fail to take proper observation before making a manoeuvre. I was certainly not being flippant.

http://youtu.be/masAsJeyIVQ


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 7, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's a well known and used term amongst cyclists and motorcyclists to vent frustration at motorists who fail to take proper observation before making a manoeuvre. I was certainly not being flippant.
		
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Ah ok. Cheers for the info. I've never been a biker and have only ever been an occasional cyclist so wasn't aware that it is a commonly used term.


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## Smiffy (Sep 8, 2014)

I used to ride bikes a lot, up until about 3 or 4 years ago when I lost a very good friend in an accident and that finally persuaded me to give it up.
I had one of the most powerful bikes you could buy (middle aged crisis?) and certainly took liberties with it. Once or twice I came close to accidents where I took chances that maybe I wouldn't have done on my previous, lesser powerful bikes.
Terrible video to watch, and I feel for both the driver of the car and obviously the deceased rider, but he really didn't give himself much of a chance travelling at that speed on a road like that. 
As for "did he have his lights on?"....he may well have done, but a combination of lack of total concentration and underestimating the closing speed of the two vehicles saw him done for.
Whenever I rode my bike, I always had coloured headlamp covers over my lights....in my case they were always purple. I took them off at night obviously.
My thinking behind this was that anybody seeing me coming towards them would see the purple lights and if it made them stop and think "what the hell is that?" then that could be the difference between them pulling out in front of me or not. When I used to go on bike rides with my mates, even in a line of 20 or so bikes, the guys in front knew exactly where "Smiffy" was as they could see me standing out from all the other bikes in their mirrors.
A possible life saver.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2014)

Bad driving on both sides with tragic consequences. 

May be a bit of 'there for the grace of God' on the car drivers part. I'd like to think I'd of seen the motorcyclist, but there has definitely been a couple of times where I've had to double check when doing something like that as the pillar in my car between the windscreen and the side of the car is quite wide.   And it's easy to not see something if you are just giving it a split second look, especially if someone on a bike is doing nearly a 100.


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## anotherdouble (Sep 8, 2014)

If you read everything under the video it also says the driver has no recollection of seeing the car following the bike either so it may be that the speed theoretically had nothing to do with this just plain bad driving.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

I have no sympathy for the rider at all. See it all too often. One less on the road.

I don't think I've ever met someone with a high powered bike who didn't consistently break the law.

Feel sorry for the car driver.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2014)

The other thing I find very strange is why would you video yourself breaking the speed limit by so much?  If you get caught doing those speeds then surely it's an instant ban, so why gather evidence to convict yourself?  Weird.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I have no sympathy for the rider at all. See it all too often. One less on the road.

I don't think I've ever met someone with a high powered bike who didn't consistently break the law.

Feel sorry for the car driver.
		
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Two road users break the law and you have no sympathy for the one who died yet feel sorry for the one who lived? Perverse.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

If the guy on the bike had hit a mother and pram would you feel different?

The guy was breaking the law, it's that simple, it was an accident waiting to happen. Filming himself doing it makes it even worse.

Even on a motorway 97mph is reckless, on a busy road with junctions like that it's verging on suicide.

(several of my family ride high powered bikes - all have had bad accidents, all ride like idiots, I'd feel no sympathy if it happened to them either).


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			If the guy on the bike had hit a mother and pram would you feel different?

The guy was breaking the law, it's that simple, it was an accident waiting to happen. Filming himself doing it makes it even worse.

Even on a motorway 97mph is reckless, on a busy road with junctions like that it's verging on suicide.
		
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Not defending the biker in any way, shape or form. Just can't understand the outpouring of sympathy for a car driver who also broke the law and survived (Was he uninjured even?)


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Just can't understand the outpouring of sympathy for a car driver who also broke the law and survived (Was he uninjured even?)
		
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Because he's got to live with the fact that someone died across the bonnet of his car, someone that possibly wouldn't have died if they'd been doing 50 instead of 97.

This isn't a 'fender bender'....


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Because he's got to live with the fact that someone died across the bonnet of his car, someone that possibly wouldn't have died if they'd been doing 50 instead of 97.
		
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Or someone that might have lived if he'd been driving with proper care and attention and taken proper observation before turning into the path of another vehicle. He _needs_ to have that on his conscience and I hope that video makes all other car drivers take stock of how they drive but it looks like everyone is just blaming the biker whose bad riding is only a part of the story here and who paid a much higher price.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Or someone that might have lived if he'd been driving with proper care and attention and taken *proper observation* before turning into the path of another vehicle. He _needs_ to have that on his conscience and I hope that video makes all other car drivers take stock of how they drive
		
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I don't see it that way. You're entitled to your opinion (of course)

Here he is *overtaking* at 97mph *coming to the junction* side by side with a car on a road with *chevron seperation*, the crash was 4 seconds later.







If you consider this 'visible' then that's up to you.



Kudos to the Mother for putting up the vid, if it makes only one motorcyclist think about riding a bit safer then perhaps the guys death wasn't a total waste.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I don't see it that way. You're entitled to your opinion (of course)

Here he is overtaking at 97mph coming to the junction side by side with a car on a road with chevron seperation, the crash was 4 seconds later.







If you consider this 'visible' then that's up to you.



Kudos to the Mother for putting up the vid, if it makes only one motorcyclist think about riding a bit safer then perhaps the guys death wasn't a total waste.
		
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It's not an opinion, it was the decision of a court.

Agree about hoping the video changes motorcyclists behaviour but, as I said, that is only part of the story and only part of the reason to release the video. A shame you and other car drivers aren't prepared to take it on board.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			It's not an opinion, it was the decision of a court.
		
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My sympathy is with the driver of the car, his proportion of guilt as determined by a court isn't my concern, although that said I believe him to have been hard done by.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Not defending the biker in any way, shape or form. Just can't understand the outpouring of sympathy for a car driver who also broke the law and survived (Was he uninjured even?)
		
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FD,
You must appreciate that many on this forum think that car drivers can do no wrong and some even believe it is OK to text whilst driving.

Speaking as an ex-biker I can only agree that the rider was a complete idiot, we've all seen them round here being close to both Mallory Park & Donington, and contributed greatly to the accident.

But for God's sake this car driver, by his own admission, also failed to see the car shown in the video being overtaken by the bike.

With that level of attention deficit the car driver was, just like the biker, a terrible accident waiting to happen and was rightly convicted.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks MM - that is exactly my point.

I have had too many near misses of this nature that were only avoided by my own awareness, anticipation and skill. Find it hard to believe anyone can condone such poor driving.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			But for God's sake this car driver, by his own admission, also failed to see the car shown in the video being overtaken by the bike.
		
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I don't think you even NEED to see the car, you look up and there is enough clear road for you to make your manoeuvre, and you do so. I've made countless journeys where I can't directly remember how I got to my destination.

That aside, if a biker stoved into my bonnet I doubt I'd remember what my middle name is!

Only a biker would think that the car driver was mostly to blame, even at 97mph so it seems.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Only a biker would think that the car driver was mostly to blame.
		
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Don't think anyone has said the driver was mostly to blame. There were two guilty parties in this accident. One died, you want to exonerate the other, completely missing part of the point of releasing the video.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Don't think anyone has said the driver was mostly to blame. There were two guilty parties in this accident. One died, you want to exonerate the other, completely missing part of the point of releasing the video.
		
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The point of the video is to make motorcyclists SLOW DOWN in my opinion.

Catching the speeders and banning them would also work. All bikes should (by law) be fitted with tachometers IMO.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I don't think you even NEED to see the car, you look up and there is enough clear road for you to make your manoeuvre, and you do so. I've made countless journeys where I can't directly remember how I got to my destination.

That aside, if a biker stoved into my bonnet I doubt I'd remember what my middle name is!

Only a biker would think that the car driver was mostly to blame, even at 97mph so it seems.
		
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If you took the time to read my comment you would see that I have never suggested that blame be apportioned.

In the unlikely event of the rider surviving he would, I am sure, have been prosecuted and almost certainly have lost his licence. 

However, that was not possible but does not mean that on some perverse "tit for tat" basis the car driver should escape prosecution for his part in an incident that could, and should, have been avoided by both parties.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			The point of the video is to make motorcyclists SLOW DOWN in my opinion.
		
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That was, indeed, one reason for releasing the video. The other was to make all road users take proper observation before executing a manoeuvre. #thinkBike



JustOne said:



			Catching the speeders and banning them would also work. All bikes should (by law) be fitted with tachometers IMO.
		
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Yip, 'cos only bikers speed.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			If you took the time to read my comment you would see that I have never suggested that blame be apportioned.
		
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No, but there's a 'feeling' on the thread that the motorist was very much in the wrong,.. almost an anti-motorist thread.

The guy on the bike was riding like an idiot - that's all there is to it.

Even the judge said 




			"In passing sentence, Judge Veits said *no one had suggested Austin had been driving dangerously*, but he had made a mistake that 'sadly' too many other drivers also make, of 'simply' not seeing the motorcycle."
		
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 My sympathy is with the driver that an idiot riding a bike has caused him to (potentially) have this on his conscience for the rest of his life. He was UBER LUCKY that the bike rider didn't kill him too.

I don't happen to think the driver made a 'mistake' in not seeing the bike... *I don't think the bike was visible at all in the first place*... especially not at 97mph.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Yip, 'cos only bikers speed.
		
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I doubt your 'argument' would be so heartfelt if it was an idiot driving a VW Golf at 97mph who simply crashed into another car.

You're not actually trying to DEFEND the fact that he was nearly doing a TON across a junction are you?




			#thinkBike
		
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 ????????? Yeh, OK.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I doubt your 'argument' would be so heartfelt if it was an idiot driving a VW Golf at 97mph who simply crashed into another car.

*You're not actually trying to DEFEND the fact that he was nearly doing a TON across a junction are you?*

 ????????? Yeh, OK.
		
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Have you actually read anything I've written on that? NOWHERE have I attempted to justify or excuse the biker; he was an idiot riding at those speeds through that junction.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Have you actually read anything I've written on that? NOWHERE have I attempted to justify or excuse the biker; he was an idiot riding at those speeds through that junction.
		
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Post #6 regarding the driver of the car....



FairwayDodger said:



			He was *largely responsible for the accident so rightly prosecuted and convicted*. Biker didn't help himself though, was going way too fast for the road layout.
		
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Not justifying the biker... just blaming the driver instead :mmm:


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## Birchy (Sep 8, 2014)

To be honest I feel sorry for the driver in this as well. The stupidity of the biker has probably ruined their life.

If the bike is going the speed limit the car has probably turned down the lane and is gone by the time the bike gets there.

Both people in the wrong but the biker started the chain of events. One of them wrong time wrong place moments I reckon.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			No, but there's a 'feeling' on the thread that the motorist was very much in the wrong,.. almost an anti-motorist thread.

The guy on the bike was riding like an idiot - that's all there is to it.

Even the judge said  My sympathy is with the driver that an idiot riding a bike has caused him to (potentially) have this on his conscience for the rest of his life. He was UBER LUCKY that the bike rider didn't kill him too.

I don't happen to think the driver made a 'mistake' in not seeing the bike... *I don't think the bike was visible at all in the first place*... especially not at 97mph.
		
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Actually you seem to be the only one turning this thread into a "car drivers = good, bikers = bad" argument.

Whilst both FD & myself have condemned the motor-cyclist for his stupidity you are exonerating from blame the car driver who on a clear day on a straight road failed to see either a speeding bike or a car whose speed is unknown.

Please tell me why the bike was not visible in the first place. Did it have lights on, was it brightly coloured, was the rider wearing high-vis clothing, *do you know?*&#8203;


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Post #6 regarding the driver of the car....



Not justifying the biker... just blaming the driver instead :mmm:
		
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Blaming the biker and the driver. Both were at fault. Clearly. In the opinion of the police and proven in a court of law.

The only person trying to excuse anyone here is you.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

Birchy said:



			To be honest I feel sorry for the driver in this as well. The stupidity of the biker has probably ruined their life.

If the bike is going the speed limit the car has probably turned down the lane and is gone by the time the bike gets there.

Both people in the wrong but the biker started the chain of events.
		
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Quite possibly. Also possible is the biker may well have been able to take effective evasive action had he been at the speed limit.

As for starting the chain of events - it's a chicken and egg question. If the driver had seen him and stayed put the biker could have bombed past regardless of his speed.


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## adam6177 (Sep 8, 2014)

Unless I'm very much mistaken the average speed on the ride was 97mph.....not the speed at the time of the accident.

I've been a cyclist and a biker all my life and unfortunately cars just don't see bikers a lot of the time - its like we're invisible.  I'm fortunate enough to have never had anything serious happen on road....but a lot of bikers don't help themselves I'm afraid.


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## Birchy (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Quite possibly. Also possible is the biker may well have been able to take effective evasive action had he been at the speed limit.

As for starting the chain of events - it's a chicken and egg question. If the driver had seen him and stayed put the biker could have bombed past regardless of his speed.
		
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Its a real tough situation and a horrible one. I agree with the chicken and egg thing too.

The biker has paid with his life and the car driver will probably have demons for the rest of his. A real sad situation all round.

What the real message should be is to all road users to just take that bit more care as it will save lives.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Its a real tough situation and a horrible one. I agree with the chicken and egg thing too.

The biker has paid with his life and the car driver will probably have demons for the rest of his. A real sad situation all round.

What the real message should be is to all road users to just take that bit more care as it will save lives.
		
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Agreed!

And the real message that you refer to is the one that the rider's mother was emphasising on the video. We all have a responsibility to each other as well as ourselves.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			Agreed!

And the real message that you refer to is the one that the rider's mother was emphasising on the video. We all have a responsibility to each other as well as ourselves.
		
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Indeed, I totally agree... We ALL have a responsibility not to do 90+mph and overtake just as we're approaching a junction.

I can uphold my end of that responsibility.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

Birchy said:



			Its a real tough situation and a horrible one. I agree with the chicken and egg thing too.

The biker has paid with his life and the car driver will probably have demons for the rest of his. A real sad situation all round.

What the real message should be is to all road users to just take that bit more care as it will save lives.
		
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Spot on :thup:


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			If the driver had seen him and stayed put the biker could have bombed past regardless of his speed.
		
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Alas,... the thinking of many a biker I expect.


How about "If the child hadn't of kicked the ball in the road and run out without seeing me I could have bombed past him regardless of speed"  

VRoooooooooooommmmmm!


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## bladeplayer (Sep 8, 2014)

I think we are all forgetting it was an ACCIDENT and by definition it really was nobodys fault, but yet both parties contributed to it  , 

there were alot of factors to blame here , the bikers speed and dangerous overtaking etc , the motorist who obviously did not heed fully what was happening in front of them (arent we all guilty of  it at times  ) ..

When you sit on a bike or behind the wheel of a car you are in control of a dangerous weapon that needs to be handled correctly , a bike or a car in the wrong hands or handled incorrectly is no different than a gun in the wrong hands , 

You have to be aware of your own position , IN THIS CASE my opinion is the biker was wrong he was driving dangerously and taking chances and increased the danger for everyone else on the road at that time , at that speed its like playing russian roulette with 3 bullets in the gun , if not today then ur only delaying the inevitable .. a cat or a dog on the road would have been fatal for him at that speed never mind a car 

Bikers will blame drivers & vice versa but in reality every incident will be different , some days the biker is wrong some days it will be the driver , there is no definate right or wrong to cover all ..

Can someone please tell me the reason he was wearing a helmet cam ? thats a genuine question by the way


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Alas,... the thinking of many a biker I expect.
		
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Surprisingly few. Most quickly learn not to trust other road users to do the right thing. I always assume other vehicles in that position will pull in front of me, I'd have been doing less than the speed limit in that situation.

Sad you insisted on making this a cars vs bikes thread.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Alas,... the thinking of many a biker I expect.


How about "If the child hadn't of kicked the ball in the road and run out without seeing me I could have bombed past him regardless of speed"  

VRoooooooooooommmmmm! 

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Yeah, very good, selectively quote part of what I said without the context. You're a clever guy.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Sad you insisted on making this a cars vs bikes thread.
		
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You said the driver was 'largely to blame', that puts you on the 'bike side'. Your other posts pretty much defend the biker (and/or biking in general) which you are entitled to do, and I'm entitled to disagree. It's not a cars V bikes thread in my opinion, the biker wasn't visible (IMO) and was riding like an idiot, as others have said he was making the road dangerous for all others using it.

If you want to talk about bikers in general then yes some do ride safely and yes a lot of drivers don't pay enough attention to bikes. There are also a lot of riders out there that should have their bikes taken away from them... as there are drivers that shouldn't be behind the wheel.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Indeed, I totally agree... We ALL have a responsibility not to do 90+mph and overtake just as we're approaching a junction.

I can uphold my end of that responsibility.
		
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Unfortunately you are not prepared to accept any responsibility for awareness of others.

Thankfully our legal system does not, in this case, share your reckless attitude.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			You said the driver was 'largely to blame', that puts you on the 'bike side'.
		
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Semantics. I see how you could draw that opinion but it's not what I intended. Both were to blame. The accident would not have occurred without the actions of both parties. That is the point I was trying to make, not to divvy up responsibility.

Do you have any comment on the cycling video I posted where the car driver makes the same mistake but without any speed "excuse" on the part of the cyclist?


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 8, 2014)

Have just come back from the range and had a very interesting conversion, A guy in the next bay started chatting to me he was a retired police motor bike rider and knew the officer who headed up the investigation.

I did not bring this video up we were just chatting and he brought it up.

His opinion was that the bike rider was quite irresponsible, he commented on the start of the journey and the rider was riding very fast from the off without any time to get settled into his ride, he then went on to comment on the fact that even though the car driver did not see the bike he was traveling at 147 feet a second (a par 3 every 3 seconds) and the bike rider himself was overtaking on chevrons approaching a junction while doing so the bike would of seen the car and made no attempt to slow himself and just kept the power on throughout the junction. Had the motorcyclist reacted to the car by slowing and anticipating a mistake he may be alive today.

This comment was HIS OPINION only and he did feel there was blame on both parts after all it was an accident however he felt the bike rider was quite irresponsible by not slowing for the junction having seen the car, as he said the car was going into the central turning area he was never going to go left. Sometimes you need to anticipate others mistakes

This chap was also an advanced driving trainer and felt more people should attend an advanced driving course.


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## Smiffy (Sep 8, 2014)

Accidents "don't just happen". 
Most, if not all, motor accidents happen because somebody wasn't concentrating.
This accident happened because somebody wasn't concentrating fully and the thing that didn't help was the other party was acting like an idiot.
If it had been another car overtaking at over 90mph where the bike did, and slammed into the car turning right killing the occupant, everybody would be baying for the drivers blood. But the biker was killed, so we can't do that.
I lost another mate last year in a motorcyle accident. As nice a bloke as he was, he used to ride like an utter idiot at times, and had plenty of near misses. That was the way he lived his life.
He was killed in similar circumstances by a car pulling out of a side road without looking properly.
Nobody else was with him that day, nobody else can confirm how fast he was going. But knowing Dave the way I knew him, he would have been going hell for leather as he always did.
If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword.
It's just a shame that an innocent driver was involved...


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			reckless attitude.
		
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On the contrary I'm far from reckless, my diesel estate car has a calendar for a speedo and I've never had an accident.

Been burnt up by a lot of 'reckless' motorcyclists though :thup:


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			On the contrary I'm far from reckless, my diesel estate car has a calendar for a speedo and I've never had an accident.

Been burnt up by a lot of 'reckless' motorcyclists though :thup:
		
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What? No reckless car, lorry or bus-drivers!

How very fortunate you have been.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			What? No reckless car, lorry or bus-drivers!
		
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I don't think I've been 'burnt up' by many lorries or busses 

Of course (as I said in a previous reply) there are some car drivers who shouldn't be on the road and if one was overtaking into a junction at 90+mph then (in this scenario) I'd be blaming him, although two cars side by side would be more visible to the car in the central turning area and he might have stayed put.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Do you have any comment on the cycling video I posted where the car driver makes the same mistake but without any speed "excuse" on the part of the cyclist?
		
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Driver to blame, the cyclist wasn't doing 90+mph

Any good?


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## PhilTheFragger (Sep 8, 2014)

Guys n gals lets keep it nice, 
Aware it is an emotive subject
Thanks


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Just thinking out loud.....

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at 40mph and kills him - who is to blame?

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at *50*mph and kills him - who is to blame?

How does BREAKING THE LAW affect who is to blame in YOUR eyes (that question is to anybody reading)

How about in a 40mph zone the driver hits the child at 40mph and kills him but he (the driver) had a couple of beers first? how much more accountable does he become?


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Just thinking out loud.....

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at 40mph and kills him - who is to blame?

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at *50*mph and kills him - who is to blame?

How does BREAKING THE LAW affect who is to blame in YOUR eyes (that question is to anybody reading)

How about in a 40mph zone the driver hits the child at 40mph and kills him but he (the driver) had a couple of beers first? how much more accountable does he become?
		
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Without knowing the exact circumstances it's impossible and pointless to try and apportion blame.

There could be 100s of other details in such incidents which need to be looked at (the weather, was the child visible or not, could the driver have reasonably expected the child run out into the road etc etc), and our justice system does that. We do not live in a black/white world where there is an easy excuse or blame for every incident or accident.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			Without knowing the exact circumstances it's impossible and pointless to try and apportion blame.

There could be 100s of other details in such incidents which need to be looked at (the weather, was the child visible or not, could the driver have reasonably expected the child run out into the road etc etc), and our justice system does that. We do not live in a black/white world where there is an easy excuse or blame for every incident or accident.
		
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Yeh good answer I wasn't thinking that deeply into the circumstances rather a gut reaction as to how we apportion blame in general. My gut instinct (without knowing the law in full) is that the 50mph guy and the drinker are royally screwed, definitely the 50mph guy because he is speeding, more so the drinker (probably some pretty hefty jail time) even though he would have hit the child even without a drink, whilst the 40mph guy could (possibly) not have done anything wrong. Could a child step out in the road (lets say from behind a parked car) and the 50mph & drinker NOT get done?


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I don't think I've been 'burnt up' by many lorries or busses 

Of course (as I said in a previous reply) there are some car drivers who shouldn't be on the road and if one was overtaking into a junction at 90+mph then (in this scenario) I'd be blaming him, although two cars side by side would be more visible to the car in the central turning area and he might have stayed put.
		
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Do you mean there are no "boy racers" in your part of the world? How strange!

As for bus-drivers I suppose I must have found the only one who could not see a motor-cycle with lights on doing 20-25 mph in traffic. His excuse was "I was giving a signal".

If you have never encountered a lorry driver in a cab, no trailer, wanting to "race" you on country roads then again you must lead a very sheltered life.

There are good and bad in all categories of road users but just because someone falls into the bad category does not absolve us of the responsibility to look out for them.

When I first went onto the roads at 16 I was told to treat all other road users as unpredictable idiots bent on causing me harm and that way I would never be shocked but might sometimes get a pleasant surprise.

Far too often these days people regard themselves as so important that it is the duty of the rest of us to make way for them as their journey is clearly more important than anyone else's.

Selfish, inconsiderate driving/riding (including speeding & not seeing other users) is IMO the root cause of the vast majority of "accidents".


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Have you actually read anything I've written on that? NOWHERE have I attempted to justify or excuse the biker; he was an idiot riding at those speeds *through that junction*.
		
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Your comment implies that you think it would have been fine if the junction wasn't there? This is the issue for me with bikers......and I mean the Sunday "get yer knee down" brigade who give all the rest a bad name. As others have commented, I too don't know any sports bike owner who doesn't think it's a passport to speed and isn't intent on riding at those sorts of speeds every single time they go out for a "thrash"........and nowhere near enough is done to stop them.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			When I first went onto the roads at 16 I was told to treat all other road users as unpredictable idiots bent on causing me harm and that way I would never be shocked but might sometimes get a pleasant surprise.
		
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Indeed, that's my sentiment in my car! 

I appreciate that being a motorcyclist must feel like taking your life in your hands even on the best of days.


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 8, 2014)

Fyldewhite said:



			Your comment implies that you think it would have been fine if the junction wasn't there? This is the issue for me with bikers......and I mean the Sunday "get yer knee down" brigade who give all the rest a bad name. As others have commented, I too don't know any sports bike owner who doesn't think it's a passport to speed and isn't intent on riding at those sorts of speeds every single time they go out for a "thrash"........and nowhere near enough is done to stop them.
		
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Another one trying to twist my words.

The biker's speed was unacceptable anywhere, any time. Better?


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## Slab (Sep 8, 2014)

Pretty shocking video

I'd agree you have to think about hazards and in particular bikes, all the time 

Here the ratio of cars to motorbikes is about 1:1 (in the UK I think itâ€™s about 30:1)

It certainly doesnâ€™t eliminate accidents on the island but because of the sheer frequency and volume of them it means that since being here I expect to encounter a bike at every possible junction on any length of journey and if I canâ€™t see it, I listen for it, because itâ€™s there somewhere, so the habit of looking for them is ever present (& many are relying on me to save them from themselves) 

I know from driving in the UK I could easily go a couple of days without seeing a bike (longer in poor weather) 

Many are doing stupid things (as are car drivers) however the cars are easier to see and unable/slower to carry out the manoeuvres of a bike 

I hope the video has the desired effect


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 8, 2014)

FairwayDodger said:



			Another one trying to twist my words.

The biker's speed was unacceptable anywhere, any time. Better?
		
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Sorry, wasn't trying to twist anything, it's just the way it read to me. General point still stands though.


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## Piece (Sep 8, 2014)

My summary on this video only:

Car driver: made a mistake, but drove legally.
Biker: didn't make a mistake, but drove *illegally*.


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## Hacker Khan (Sep 8, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Yeh good answer I wasn't thinking that deeply into the circumstances rather a gut reaction as to how we apportion blame in general. My gut instinct (without knowing the law in full) is that the 50mph guy and the drinker are royally screwed, definitely the 50mph guy because he is speeding, more so the drinker (probably some pretty hefty jail time) even though he would have hit the child even without a drink, whilst the 40mph guy could (possibly) not have done anything wrong. Could a child step out in the road (lets say from behind a parked car) and the 50mph & drinker NOT get done?
		
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What about if someone is doing 29 in a 30 limit past a primary school when it closes and hits a child?  Is that person any better than someone who says is doing 45 in a 40 limit in which there are no pedestrians or even houses and a child just runs out from nowhere? (by the way this is rhetorical question, and I'm not after any answers from the moral maze we seem to be in)

It's much too difficult to make a judgement just knowing a few facts (speed being just one of them) and there is a reason why they do very in depth investigations after any road fatality.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

Piece said:



			My summary on this video only:

Car driver: made a mistake, but drove legally.
Biker: didn't make a mistake, but drove *illegally*.
		
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The mistake that you refer to constitutes Careless Driving or Driving Without Due Care & Attention both of which are offences under the Road Traffic Acts and, therefore, illegal.

We, all of us, will make mistakes but hopefully being reminded of the possible consequences, including prosecution, will help to reduce the number of those mistakes and severity of any accidents.


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## Imurg (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			But for God's sake this car driver, by his own admission, also failed to see the car shown in the video being overtaken by the bike.

With that level of attention deficit the car driver was, just like the biker, a terrible accident waiting to happen and was rightly convicted.
		
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Whilst not backing the car driver to the hilt, I would like to make this point.
He says he didn't see either the bike or the car.
I think its safe to assume that he did actually have a look at some stage during the manoeuvre otherwise he wouldn't have reached the age he has.
When he looked down the road, the oncoming vehicles were probably getting on for 350 yards away - 350 yards.
Even if he saw the car and the bike he almost certainly dismissed them from his mind as being too far away to be of any relevance. Travelling at 60 mph they would have taken 10 or more seconds to get to him - more than enough time to get across.

Most people, when taking a right turn, will look ahead, maybe, 25 or more yards before they actually make the turn. Those last few yards are when most look into the new road and judge when they are going to turn. Your eyes are not ahead - that area has already been assessed. Seeing a vehicle(or not) 350 yards away will, for most, prompt you to make that turn. 
Also, trying to gauge oncoming speed is difficult enough at "normal" speeds and in good light/conditions.
That road is tree/bush lined - it would be very easy to not see a bike 350 yards away let alone guage his oncoming speed.

The driver is obviously at fault but, for me, more lies at the feet of the biker.
He shouldn't have been going that speed - obvious.
He should have anticipated a potential problem and slowed - had he done so, he may be alive today
Had he not been exceeding the speed limit he may be alive today
Both of those things would have given the car driver more time to see him and react.
Yes, the driver failed in his duty and didn't see the rider but is that because the rider didn't give him enough time to see him..?


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 8, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Whilst not backing the car driver to the hilt, I would like to make this point.
He says he didn't see either the bike or the car.
I think its safe to assume that he did actually have a look at some stage during the manoeuvre otherwise he wouldn't have reached the age he has.
When he looked down the road, the oncoming vehicles were probably getting on for 350 yards away - 350 yards.
Even if he saw the car and the bike he almost certainly dismissed them from his mind as being too far away to be of any relevance. Travelling at 60 mph they would have taken 10 or more seconds to get to him - more than enough time to get across.

Most people, when taking a right turn, will look ahead, maybe, 25 or more yards before they actually make the turn. Those last few yards are when most look into the new road and judge when they are going to turn. Your eyes are not ahead - that area has already been assessed. Seeing a vehicle(or not) 350 yards away will, for most, prompt you to make that turn. 
Also, trying to gauge oncoming speed is difficult enough at "normal" speeds and in good light/conditions.
That road is tree/bush lined - it would be very easy to not see a bike 350 yards away let alone guage his oncoming speed.

*The driver is obviously at fault but, for me, more lies at the feet of the biker.
He shouldn't have been going that speed - obvious.
He should have anticipated a potential problem and slowed - had he done so, he may be alive today
Had he not been exceeding the speed limit he may be alive today
Both of those things would have given the car driver more time to see him and react.
Yes, the driver failed in his duty and didn't see the rider but is that because the rider didn't give him enough time to see him..?*

Click to expand...

Great post, I have to say the bold section nearly mirrors what the retired police officers opinion and I would have to agree with this.


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## hors limite (Sep 8, 2014)

I think it is a good thing that this video has been made so widely available if it only succeeds in reminding some of the bike riding community of their inherent vulnerability.  It was drummed into me when learning to ride a bike that I would always come off worst in  a collision with another vehicle and therefore if I wanted to stay in one piece it was up to me to ride defensively and to try and anticipate the amazing variety of ways my fellow road users might devise to kill or injure me.
In saying this I am not in any way absolving car and other drivers of large and small metal boxes of their responsibility. I am just trying to emphasise that  bike riders can't shrug off " fender benders" with a visit to the body shop. It was brought home to me with a vengeance when my father was in hospital having a knee replacement. A young guy in the next bed had misjudged a passing manoeuvre involving a skip lorry ( the sort with the arms that stick out on both sides at the back) his lower leg had hit the arm and had been severed below the knee.
If you decide to ride a motorbike you have the right to anticipate that other road users will drive responsibly. However, it would be a fool who would expect this to be the case.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Whilst not backing the car driver to the hilt, I would like to make this point.
He says he didn't see either the bike or the car.
I think its safe to assume that he did actually have a look at some stage during the manoeuvre otherwise he wouldn't have reached the age he has.
When he looked down the road, the oncoming vehicles were probably getting on for 350 yards away - 350 yards.
Even if he saw the car and the bike he almost certainly dismissed them from his mind as being too far away to be of any relevance. Travelling at 60 mph they would have taken 10 or more seconds to get to him - more than enough time to get across.

Most people, when taking a right turn, will look ahead, maybe, 25 or more yards before they actually make the turn. Those last few yards are when most look into the new road and judge when they are going to turn. Your eyes are not ahead - that area has already been assessed. Seeing a vehicle(or not) 350 yards away will, for most, prompt you to make that turn. 
Also, trying to gauge oncoming speed is difficult enough at "normal" speeds and in good light/conditions.
That road is tree/bush lined - it would be very easy to not see a bike 350 yards away let alone guage his oncoming speed.

The driver is obviously at fault but, for me, more lies at the feet of the biker.
He shouldn't have been going that speed - obvious.
He should have anticipated a potential problem and slowed - had he done so, he may be alive today
Had he not been exceeding the speed limit he may be alive today
Both of those things would have given the car driver more time to see him and react.
Yes, the driver failed in his duty and didn't see the rider but is that because the rider didn't give him enough time to see him..?
		
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On what are you basing your assumption that the car and bike were 350 yards away when he looked, or indeed failed to look. I have, from the outset, clearly agreed that the biker and his stupidly excessive speed had a major role in this accident.

However, from the video I cannot see that it is possible to assess the actions of the driver and, thus, we cannot apportion degrees of culpability.

From what I can see I would certainly not wish to have been a pillion passenger with this biker but then neither would I want to ride with this car-driver.


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## Imurg (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			On what are you basing your assumption that the car and bike were 350 yards away when he looked, or indeed failed to look. I have, from the outset, clearly agreed that the biker and his stupidly excessive speed had a major role in this accident.
		
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Allegedly, the driver had 7 seconds to see the biker.
7 seconds at 97 mph is getting on for 350 yards....


And as to whether the driver looked or not - has any driver ever not looked at all when crossing traffic..?
They may not have looked properly but nobody, nobody, would not look at all.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

Imurg said:



			Allegedly, the driver had 7 seconds to see the biker.
7 seconds at 97 mph is getting on for 350 yards....


And as to whether the driver looked or not - has any driver ever not looked at all when crossing traffic..?
They may not have looked properly but nobody, nobody, would not look at all.
		
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But 7 seconds was apparently the time from when he could first have seen the bike until impact, that is not necessarily the same time as when he may have looked and judged he could complete the manoeuvre.

For all we know he may not have looked until 3 or 4 of those seconds had passed.


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## Imurg (Sep 8, 2014)

If so, then the biker didn't give the driver enough time to see him.
At 50 yards a second, even if the driver looked 4 seconds before impact, the bike is still 200 yards away.


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## Deleted member 18588 (Sep 8, 2014)

Imurg said:



			If so, then the biker didn't give the driver enough time to see him.
At 50 yards a second, even if the driver looked 4 seconds before impact, the bike is still 200 yards away.
		
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But you are still assuming that the driver looked. 

Based upon personal experience I strongly dispute your claim that anybody would not look at all before attempting the turn, if by looking you mean properly looking rather than a cursory glance.

I have had it done to me both on a bike and in a car and in neither case was I speeding so the other driver(s) had ample time to make their judgement.

In any event neither you nor I know the full facts here so neither of us can judge which party was more to blame and there is nothing to be gained by speculation.

Suffice to say that the biker should not have been travelling at such speed and the car driver should have been paying more attention. We all can learn from those two facts.


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## JustOne (Sep 8, 2014)

MetalMickie said:



			In any event neither you nor I know the full facts here so neither of us can judge which party was more to blame and there is nothing to be gained by speculation.
		
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The beauty of the internet - we can discuss stuff based on opinion and speculation. :thup:

My speculation is that the driver looked, saw nothing in his immediate vicinity (only the subconscious acknowledgement that there was some space in the road)  and pulled out... in the 3-4 seconds it took him to engage 1st gear and release the clutch the motorbike was on top of him.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 8, 2014)

Every new biker (or existing one for that matter) should be shown this video. Yes part of it it's release is to make drivers more aware and maybe take extra time at these type of junctions, I certainly do, and have done so more since me and my other half have been together (she's been riding for 12 years). Arguing over who was to blame or who saw what, when etc is both futile and to some extent irrelevant.

I'd guess that many car drivers have no idea how powerful these machines are. My GF's bike is only a mid size sports tourer but does 141mph and 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. The top end race bikes go much faster up to about 180mph. Point being that even if they are seen they can easily be disregarded as out of range by many drivers.....not saying that's right but maybe understandable.

Overwhelmingly to me is the message this sends to bikers in how riding with no thought for your own safety means that at some point you will come unstuck and you will give someone else the chance to make a mistake that will kill you......and as we see you can go from having that all important adrenaline rush to dead very quickly.


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## Smiffy (Sep 8, 2014)

My old Kawasaki ZZR1400 was "restricted" to a top speed of 186mph.
Fastest I ever went on it was 155 and that was enough!
If I had been doing 180mph I'd be covering a mile every 20 seconds.
So if something pulled out in front of me 1/4 mile up the road I would have literally 5 seconds to react.
At 155mph my head was wobbling about to such an extent I could hardly see anything.
At 180 it would have obviously been worse.
It doesn't bear thinking about.


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## harpo_72 (Sep 8, 2014)

I have just completed my advanced driver training, it basically teaches you to be risk aware. The speed limit is adhered to and road markings are used to identify dangers. In this instance my approach would have been off throttle, foot covering the brake and ready to engage a lower gear, but also to have some chance of shedding speed. It seems in this case the motorcyclist was travelling too fast, no effort to read the road or dangers ahead.... I don't really understand why we have cars and bikes that exceed 100mph, legally we cannot use them and the majority don't have the skill to cope. 
It does seem that the video is misinterpreted by some, but for those who are sensible it's a case of speed being an issue and human reaction times. I would argue that the road markings would have indicated the junction and highlighted the dangers it presented, not that the car turned in without looking. Had the biker been using the method I suggested he would have been able to react as would the driver of the car.


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## gripitripit (Sep 9, 2014)

First time I watched this and I must admit I am a bit shaken. It more or less the same (minus the speed) of the bike accident I had 10 years ago. I was in a 30 zone and doing about 25 when a car pulled across me. I went flying in the air and landed with a bang. I was lucky and only had 2 broken big toes. 
The driver of the car was convicted and had to do some sort of an awarness course. 

In this one the driver of the car must take a large chunk of the blame as there was time to see the oncoming bike. It also could be said if the biker stuck to the limit and drove within the law he would not have been in this place at the same time. 

Bikers....Just because your bike and go from 30 to 100 in seconds keep that speed off the road and do it on a track.....Car drivers....Think BIke..


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## JCW (Sep 9, 2014)

Two wrongs ended up with one losing his life , his speeding caused his death , my friend lost a son in the same manner , he was 29 David and got cut up at a junction by some old dear , his father was never the same after that , worked all his life , lost his wife to cancer and his son to a bike crash. most bikers i see all speed , lots in between traffic too and a lot are not aware of the risk they are taking , you only need to hit a cat or a little nudge and at the speed of 97 mph you got no chance . my dad bought me a bike at 16 , i stop riding at 18 after losing 4 friends in a bike pile up , only reason i was spared was because i had a hot date that night , that was 1976 , bikers are their own worst enemy , powerful bikes on busy roads and lets be honest there are a lot of bad drivers around that never indicate , on mobiles , texting , more speed you do the more your life is at risk


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## drdel (Sep 9, 2014)

I used to ride a very large BMW motorcycle frequently as it was a reliable way to get a sensible journey time and park in the city.  However, over the years I noticed car drivers becoming more and more aggressive towards bikers often deliberately pulling out to the right and accelerating when I'd overtake. 

Frequently car drivers would pull out of junctions, presumably because they hadn't seen me - which was hard to believe as the bike was big and bright red, I wore reflective clothing and always had the dipped beam on the headlight switched on.

I gave up riding.

Unfortunately in this case there are two wrongs, the biker was travelling too fast approaching a junction and the car driver did not give way and incorrectly turned right in front of approaching  traffic.


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## MattM (Sep 9, 2014)

I've got a few mates who are / were bikers. One of the 'badges' they talk about is to do double the speed limit in every classification, i.e.

60mph in a 30mph zone, 80 in a 40, 100 in a 50, etc

Some have done it '2 up'

Ridiculous, and not surprisingly they aren't all still alive. 

Hope to god none of my kids ever want to ride a (motor)bike, not just because of the potential for them to make a mistake, but that car drivers like the one in the video will also make a mistake that could be fatal. Bikers are way more vulnerable than car drivers and should be very aware of that.


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## dufferman (Sep 9, 2014)

What was the speed limit on the road? Was it a road the biker had travelled before? Just curious.

I took my CBT when 16 to get on my 50cc scooter back in the day. First thing the instructor said was to treat my bike like a car - that way I won't be involved in any accidents. Although he may not be 100% factually correct, the sentiment is true. 

The biker in the video, was not acting like a car. So I guess the instructor was right.


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## NorfolkShaun (Sep 9, 2014)

dufferman said:



			What was the speed limit on the road? Was it a road the biker had travelled before? Just curious.

I took my CBT when 16 to get on my 50cc scooter back in the day. First thing the instructor said was to treat my bike like a car - that way I won't be involved in any accidents. Although he may not be 100% factually correct, the sentiment is true. 

The biker in the video, was not acting like a car. So I guess the instructor was right.
		
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National speed limit area so 60


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## Whereditgo (Sep 9, 2014)

JustOne said:



			Indeed, I totally agree... We ALL have a responsibility not to do 90+mph and overtake just as we're approaching a junction.

I can uphold my end of that responsibility.
		
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Is this the same Justone that some time ago was expecting sympathy for having been flashed by the speed cameras on an empty motorway late at night?

As a biker and car driver, it seems the whole point of releasing this video is to increase awareness to all road users irrespective of the mode of transport they choose to use. Yes, the biker was speeding excessively which of course contributed to the unfortunate accident, but equally the car driver did not look properly. There is tragedy for both parties.

Not all drivers give enough attention at junctions, some do even forget to look at all. I had the misfortune to meet one such driver, fortunately I was on my pedal bike not motor bike at the time otherwise the resulting T-bone would have been worse for us both. His opening statement to me was "I use this junction all the time and there is never anything coming".

Bikers (pedal and motor) wear helmet cam's for a variety of reasons, some to gather information which could later be used to determine the cause of an accident, some to deter verbal and physical abuse from other road users and some without doubt to be able to show off to their mates with about the excessive speeds they ride at etc. a quick search on You Tube gives lots of examples of the latter.


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## Smiffy (Sep 9, 2014)

Whereditgo said:



			Is this the same Justone that some time ago was expecting sympathy for having been flashed by the speed cameras on an empty motorway late at night?
		
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No.

His hair is a bigger mess and his handicap has gone out two


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## Rooter (Sep 9, 2014)

The video is the exact reason i dont ride on the roads any more. I have a severe problem with speed and when i put on a helmet, my brain seems to leave. Even getting banned for a year from bikes didn't stop me, i raced bikes after my ban and have been out on the road a few times since, but cant do it to my family any more. I would either get locked up or be dead pretty quickly. 

Speed is fun, i have done some seriously stupid things on two wheels (and one!) as it is such a buzz, I do miss it a lot, but wont ride on the roads again. Might get a dirt bike for some giggles some time...


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## JustOne (Sep 9, 2014)

Whereditgo said:



			Is this the same Justone that some time ago was expecting sympathy for having been flashed by the speed cameras on an empty motorway late at night?
		
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I had *4* lanes, no oncoming traffic, no junctions and I was doing 15mph less than him... in a car. I wasn't after sympathy, only ranting. I wanted to record my thoughts about how silly the road was being managed as I didn't have a GoPro on my shoulder at the time


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## ColchesterFC (Sep 9, 2014)

JustOne said:



			I had *4* lanes, no oncoming traffic, no junctions and *I was doing 15mph less than him*... in a car. I wasn't after sympathy, only ranting. I wanted to record my thoughts about how silly the road was being managed as I didn't have a GoPro on my shoulder at the time.
		
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I must've missed that thread. But, you got done for 82mph on a deserted Motorway at night? Seems harsh. Was it 3 points and Â£60 fine?


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## JustOne (Sep 9, 2014)

ColchesterFC said:



			I must've missed that thread. But, you got done for 82mph on a deserted Motorway at night? Seems harsh. Was it 3 points and Â£60 fine?
		
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No, nothing came of it.

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?50877-Speed-camera-rant!!!!


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