# "Boys don't wear dresses..."



## Slab (Dec 27, 2017)

.... but they do visit hair-stylists, wear earrings, bracelets, nose piercings and beaded necklaces and pose for topless model shoots it seems

Bit of a numpty comment Lewis!

Why don't celebs just keep us out of their private lives


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2017)

Slab said:



			.... but they do visit hair-stylists, wear earrings, bracelets, nose piercings and beaded necklaces and pose for topless model shoots it seems

Bit of a numpty comment Lewis!

Why don't celebs just keep us out of their private lives
		
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I have never liked him .. however got slight bit more respect for him now.. boys donâ€™t wear dresses . Bloody pc world we live in.


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## User20205 (Dec 27, 2017)

pauljames87 said:



			I have never liked him .. however got slight bit more respect for him now.. boys donâ€™t wear dresses . Bloody pc world we live in.
		
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Boys or girls can wear whatever they want, you donâ€™t have to like it, just accept it.


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## drdel (Dec 27, 2017)

therod said:



			Boys or girls can wear whatever they want, you donâ€™t have to like it, just accept it.
		
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Why!


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## SteveJay (Dec 27, 2017)

drdel said:



			Why!
		
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Absolutely.......being "forced" to apologise for making a statement about a family member is crazy. What business is it of anyone else?

Whilst I don't particularly like the guy, the world has gone PC mad if people are outraged by such a statement!!!


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2017)

SteveJay said:



			Absolutely.......being "forced" to apologise for making a statement about a family member is crazy. What business is it of anyone else?

Whilst I don't particularly like the guy, the world has gone PC mad if people are outraged by such a statement!!!
		
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This &#128077;, I cannot believe that for one minute he said it with the intentions to hurt a 5 yr old boy. For me the reaction has been OTT.


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## User20205 (Dec 27, 2017)

drdel said:



			Why!
		
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Why not? Why canâ€™t â€˜boysâ€™ wear what they want? Re accepting it, how would it hurt anyone? Why would you object, therefore acceptance is logical,no? 
Re Lewis Hamilton, itâ€™s a bit of a non story, apart from attempting to publically shame his own nephew and revealing a really narrow minded view of the world it doesnâ€™t warrant examination


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2017)

This is the bit I cannot get my head around.

If we are to accept that anyone can wear what they want.

Why can we not accept that not everyone will agree with it, but it don't make them right or wrong.


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## louise_a (Dec 27, 2017)

therod said:



			Why not? Why canâ€™t â€˜boysâ€™ wear what they want? Re accepting it, how would it hurt anyone? Why would you object, therefore acceptance is logical,no? 
Re Lewis Hamilton, itâ€™s a bit of a non story, apart from attempting to publically shame his own nephew and revealing a really narrow minded view of the world it doesnâ€™t warrant examination 

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:thup:


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## User20205 (Dec 27, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			This is the bit I cannot get my head around.

If we are to accept that anyone can wear what they want.

Why can we not accept that not everyone will agree with it, but it don't make them right or wrong.
		
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I fully accept that some hold some views that I donâ€™t agree with. You can hold any views you want, however misguided I believe them to be. You can believe the earth to be flat if you want? 
I might ask you to rationally explain them, and when you canâ€™t, I might think youâ€™re a bit of a knob. I will also object pretty strongly when they are vocalised to marginalise, persecute and/or attempt to victimise someone because they â€˜differentâ€™ from you. 
Why canâ€™t you just accept difference?

In this case, the boy is 5? He wore a dress? Whatâ€™s wrong with that? If I chose to wear a pastel lemon tutu, who cares?


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## Tashyboy (Dec 27, 2017)

What I did find amusing about Mr Hamitons views on what someone is wearing, is some of the stuff he has worn is not to everyone's taste.


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## pauljames87 (Dec 27, 2017)

Tashyboy said:



			What I did find amusing about Mr Hamitons views on what someone is wearing, is some of the stuff he has worn is not to everyone's taste.
		
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I am probably completely wrong here.. but isnt it sort of protecting his nephew.. wearing a dress would leave him open to bullying.. however when your an adult you can do pretty much what the hell you want. when your a kid I found it was best to not buck the trend.


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## Smiffy (Dec 28, 2017)

If a bloke turned up to play golf with me and was wearing a dress, he'd get a few choice words aimed in his direction......


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## Slab (Dec 28, 2017)

What I find weirdest of all is not whether he thinks boys should or shouldn't wear a dress, its that he felt the need to share his opinion on such a topic (& about a family member) to a million people that follow his social media

The bloke's a weirdo doing that


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## Don Barzini (Dec 28, 2017)

Donâ€™t really like Hamilton, but this is a storm in a teacup. His apology is nothing more than an attempt to appease the terminally outraged. Iâ€™d have had more respect for him if heâ€™d said something along the lines of â€œIt was all said a bit tongue in cheek, get over itâ€.


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## virtuocity (Dec 28, 2017)

The concern would be that within the group of 'terminally outraged' are those who have faced the challenges presented by gender identity issues, both intrinsically and extrinsically and felt they had something in common with a young lad being slagged off by a family member for their choices.

Society is in a state of flux and conflict surrounding this issue.  In such conflicts, there are always extremists.  On the one side you have those campaigning for the removal of boy/girl sections in shops and a rise of support for raising children in gender neutral surroundings.  On the other, you have the 'anti-snowflake', 'you wouldn't catch my son wearing that', 'the world is just full of those wanting to be offended' camp.  

IMO, these extremes contribute to the wave of anti-intellectualism that appears to reign nowadays.

Rather, like all topical debates, these are best managed through collation and dissemination of information, with an overall ethos of 'do what you want, as long as you are happy and don't intend to hurt others'.  Imagine a world like that. 

For me, personally, I have never bought my son a dress, but have not stopped him from playing with angel wings at nursery.  He chose a doll from the toy shop once.  Big whoop.  Would I make fun of him on camera then share it with the world? No.  Why? Well it's nothing to do with my stance on LGBTQ rights, rather one of knowing what's teasing and what's so sensitive as to be classed as bullying.

Hamilton has since apologised, but it was complete hollow and clearly managed by his representatives- he has since 'liked' twitter responses which back his video.


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## ScienceBoy (Dec 28, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			If a bloke turned up to play golf with me and was wearing a dress, he'd get a few choice words aimed in his direction......
		
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Next idea for H4H is a ballgown fourball!

Votes counted in pounds and pence! 

Help raise awareness that everyone has a choice to wear what they want, unless someone pays you to wear it 

Nomination not open yet however!


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## User20205 (Dec 28, 2017)

Slab said:



			What I find weirdest of all is not whether he thinks boys should or shouldn't wear a dress, its that he felt the need to share his opinion on such a topic (& about a family member) to a million people that follow his social media

The bloke's a weirdo doing that
		
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This is key, believe what you want, just donâ€™t publicly shame in front of 5.7 million people. If your that bothered but him an action man like wot real boys play with


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## User20205 (Dec 28, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			If a bloke turned up to play golf with me and was wearing a dress, he'd get a few choice words aimed in his direction......
		
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HFH 2018??? Iâ€™ll wear a little Paige spirinac mini skirt. Donâ€™t stand behind me when Iâ€™m picking up my ball??


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 28, 2017)

I wonder where this is going. I suppose if we all become gender neutral then it will solve the population crisis. All we need to do now is get the Indians and Chinese to buy into it :thup:


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## User20205 (Dec 28, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I wonder where this is going. I suppose if we all become gender neutral then it will solve the population crisis. All we need to do now is get the Indians and Chinese to buy into it :thup:
		
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Itâ€™s not compulsory Gordon, and there are shades of grey. I can wear a dress and have a fully functioning dingaling


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## dewsweeper (Dec 28, 2017)

Not with me you can't!!!
Lol


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			If a bloke turned up to play golf with me and was wearing a dress, he'd get a few choice words aimed in his direction......
		
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Do they do it in a medium?


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## Tashyboy (Dec 28, 2017)

virtuocity said:



			The concern would be that within the group of 'terminally outraged' are those who have faced the challenges presented by gender identity issues, both intrinsically and extrinsically and felt they had something in common with a young lad being slagged off by a family member for their choices.

Society is in a state of flux and conflict surrounding this issue.  In such conflicts, there are always extremists.  On the one side you have those campaigning for the removal of boy/girl sections in shops and a rise of support for raising children in gender neutral surroundings.  On the other, you have the 'anti-snowflake', 'you wouldn't catch my son wearing that', 'the world is just full of those wanting to be offended' camp.  

IMO, these extremes contribute to the wave of anti-intellectualism that appears to reign nowadays.

Rather, like all topical debates, these are best managed through collation and dissemination of information, with an overall ethos of 'do what you want, as long as you are happy and don't intend to hurt others'.  Imagine a world like that. 

For me, personally, I have never bought my son a dress, but have not stopped him from playing with angel wings at nursery.  He chose a doll from the toy shop once.  Big whoop.  Would I make fun of him on camera then share it with the world? No.  Why? Well it's nothing to do with my stance on LGBTQ rights, rather one of knowing what's teasing and what's so sensitive as to be classed as bullying.

Hamilton has since apologised, but it was complete hollow and clearly managed by his representatives- he has since 'liked' twitter responses which back his video.
		
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Well said sir.&#128077;


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 28, 2017)

Slab said:



			What I find weirdest of all is not whether he thinks boys should or shouldn't wear a dress, its that he felt the need to share his opinion on such a topic (& about a family member) to a million people that follow his social media

The bloke's a weirdo doing that
		
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This. It seems to be the way of the modern era. No doubt he will be complaining about an interference in his private life at some point. Bringing someone else's kid into the public arena is not on. Door handle.


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## Dando (Dec 28, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			If a bloke turned up to play golf with me and was wearing a dress, he'd get a few choice words aimed in his direction......
		
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What if he wanted to play from the red tees as well?


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## Kellfire (Dec 28, 2017)

Some posters are showing themselves to be quite the dinosaurs on here.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Dec 28, 2017)

Lord Tyrion said:



			This. It seems to be the way of the modern era. No doubt he will be complaining about an interference in his private life at some point. Bringing someone else's kid into the public arena is not on. Door handle.
		
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This +1.  The brain-dead idiocy of how many self-important celebs with inflated egos use Social Media


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## Slime (Dec 28, 2017)

pauljames87 said:



			I have never liked him .. however got slight bit more respect for him now.. boys donâ€™t wear dresses . Bloody pc world we live in.
		
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I'm with you on this :thup:.



SteveJay said:



			Absolutely.......being "forced" to apologise for making a statement about a family member is crazy. What business is it of anyone else?

Whilst I don't particularly like the guy, *the world has gone PC mad if people are outraged by such a statement!!!*

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I think many of the outraged are merely pretending to be outraged as this has become a very fashionable/popular pastime these days.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 28, 2017)

We always alternated between Boys and Girls clothes for my lad. 
So Monday he could be wearing jeans & a lumberjack shirt,Tuesday could be a Tutu. 
After all itâ€™s only clothes.


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## User20205 (Dec 28, 2017)

Slime said:



			I'm with you on this :thup:.



I think many of the outraged are merely pretending to be outraged as this has become a very fashionable/popular pastime these days.
		
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Why donâ€™t boys wear dresses? Please explain?
They are after all, as pinseeker says, only clothes. 
The outraged seem to be from the LGTB community, maybe theyâ€™re just looking for a sense of equality and maybe asking not to be judged?
Iâ€™m not outraged, I donâ€™t really care what LH said. What bothers me is the platform used to shame his nephew, and the lack of tolerance shown by some.
Why would anyone feel threatened by a 5 year old in a dress?


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## Slime (Dec 29, 2017)

therod said:



*Why donâ€™t boys wear dresses? Please explain?*
They are after all, as pinseeker says, only clothes. 
The outraged seem to be from the LGTB community, maybe theyâ€™re just looking for a sense of equality and maybe asking not to be judged?
Iâ€™m not outraged, I donâ€™t really care what LH said. What bothers me is the platform used to shame his nephew, and the lack of tolerance shown by some.
Why would anyone feel threatened by a 5 year old in a dress?
		
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Really?  
Do you wear a dress?


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## bluewolf (Dec 29, 2017)

Slime said:



			Really?  
Do you wear a dress?
		
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He can if he wants to. And who exactly would he be hurting?


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## Kellfire (Dec 29, 2017)

Slime said:



			Really?  
Do you wear a dress?
		
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I don't wear Nike trainers.

Should no man wear Nike trainers?


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 29, 2017)

Letâ€™s say one of your mates turns up at the pub wearing a nice flowery dress,would you just think â€œthatâ€™s a lovely dress that John is wearingâ€?

Or would you think WTF is John wearing? 

PS.. Iâ€™m ok with what ever John wears ðŸ˜


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## Papas1982 (Dec 29, 2017)

I say a golf forum is probably not going to be the place where there will be a defining moment in sexual equality. 

Iâ€™ll hold my hands up Iâ€™ve made comments that some would deem inappropriate when a playing partner hasnâ€™t cleared the red tees, or left a putt 10ft short.
Iâ€™ll also regularly be wearing the loudest pink shirt. Because I see all of the above as light hearted fun where no offence is intended. Fortunately  the ladies, and the two gay gents I play with relatively regularly are just as quick (sometimes quicker) to pass comment.

I think like all humour, knowing your audience is key. 

For me LH shouldnâ€™t have posted it as it was bound to court contraversy. Re the subject matter, I wouldnâ€™t actively buy a son a dress in an attempt to raise them gender neutral, but at the same time, if they were to want to where it. Good luck to em.


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## User20205 (Dec 29, 2017)

Slime said:



			Really?  
Do you wear a dress?
		
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Not for a while, but I can if I want. Why, am I not allowed to?


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## Slime (Dec 29, 2017)

therod said:



			Not for a while, but I can if I want. *Why, am I not allowed to?*

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Of course you are ......................... you are old enough to make your own decisions.
But a 5 year old?
And to be fair to LH, he didn't say "boys don't wear dresses" he said "boys don't wear princess dresses". 
Slight difference there, the OP got it slightly wrong.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 29, 2017)

therod said:



			Not for a while, but I can if I want. Why, am I not allowed to?
		
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Out of interest, on the days you wear a dress which lavvies do you use?

I only ask as we had a crossdresser visit my place of work recently and he chose to use the ladies which drew a strongly worded letter of complaint from one of the buildings other tenants...


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## dewsweeper (Dec 29, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Out of interest, on the days you wear a dress which lavvies do you use?

I only ask as we had a crossdresser visit my place of work recently and he chose to use the ladies which drew a strongly worded letter of complaint from one of the buildings other tenants...
		
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Please do not ask real world questions!


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## IanM (Dec 29, 2017)

Good old Lewis......  heâ€™s been handed several lessons over one Tweet!


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## User20205 (Dec 29, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Out of interest, on the days you wear a dress which lavvies do you use?

I only ask as we had a crossdresser visit my place of work recently and he chose to use the ladies which drew a strongly worded letter of complaint from one of the buildings other tenants...
		
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I canâ€™t believe some fellas get threatened by what clothing some boys choose.
These threads crack me up. Itâ€™s a bit like the ones on gay marriage, no one who objects is brave enough to say why they think is wrong, apart from to hide behind the whole â€˜pc gone madâ€™ nonsense.

It must be hard finding the world so scary!!


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## USER1999 (Dec 29, 2017)

therod said:



			If I chose to wear a pastel lemon tutu, who cares?
		
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I do.

Pastel lemon is so not your colour.


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## MegaSteve (Dec 29, 2017)

therod said:



			I canâ€™t believe some fellas get threatened by what clothing some boys choose.
These threads crack me up. Itâ€™s a bit like the ones on gay marriage, no one who objects is brave enough to say why they think is wrong, apart from to hide behind the whole â€˜pc gone madâ€™ nonsense.

It must be hard finding the world so scary!!
		
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I genuinely get where you are coming from...
And, the scenario I used is a genuine one and as far as I am aware there are still ongoing talks as to what to do in the future...

Life isn't always straightforward...


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## Dan2501 (Dec 29, 2017)

This is superb:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5218431/Meme-Lewis-Hamilton-Princess-Diana-goes-viral.html


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## Slime (Dec 29, 2017)

Dan2501 said:



			This is superb:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5218431/Meme-Lewis-Hamilton-Princess-Diana-goes-viral.html

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It's the Daily Mail .......................... even their headline is a blatant lie!


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## Dan2501 (Dec 29, 2017)

Was more meaning the meme rather than the article, but okay.


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## NWJocko (Dec 30, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Out of interest, on the days you wear a dress which lavvies do you use?

I only ask as we had a crossdresser visit my place of work recently and he chose to use the ladies which drew a strongly worded letter of complaint from one of the buildings other tenants...
		
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Unless the person involved did something inappropriate (which tbh has little to do with what they wear) what was the complaint about!?


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## Lord Tyrion (Dec 30, 2017)

I would say a cross dresser is a very different set up to a transgender person who is going through the change. A cross dresser, assuming male, still has full male anatomy but likes to dress as a woman. A transgender person, again assuming male in this situation, would like to become a woman and so will ultimately be using the ladies shortly anyway.

A minefield of an area whilst people are transitioning. I've discussed it with the women at my firm and whilst they were very open to the idea at first they were less so when they thought further about it. We are very small, based in a small rural town so the situation is unlikely to arise but bigger firms in cities are going to face some uncomfortable toilet questions in the coming months and years.


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## Hobbit (Dec 30, 2017)

Hamilton may live in the public eye, probably courts it to raise his profile, but his 5 yr old nephew doesn't and shouldn't be exposed to it irrespective of what he was wearing.

Other than that, just what is all the fuss about? The only conformity I see as valid is that of a uniform in certain business/occupation environments. Even then there may be some latitude, e.g. an air steward wearing a skirt that a stewardess might wear. Personally, I couldn't give a toss. 

Same goes for make up. If a guy turns up on the 1st tee with eye shadow and lipstick, so what. High heels on the green are a no-no though.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Boys or girls can wear whatever they want, you donâ€™t have to like it, just accept it.
		
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yet you can't wear jeans to a golf club


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

boys shouldn't be wearing dresses and parents should be steering their child in the right direction before that child grows into a confused man with big problems.   if he gets to adulthood and still wants to wear a dress then crack on.  its his life....


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## bobmac (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			In this case, the boy is 5? He wore a dress? Whatâ€™s wrong with that?
		
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What would happen if the 5 year old wanted to wear a dress to school, would you be happy with that knowing he'd get bullied to hell and back?


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			boys shouldn't be wearing dresses and parents should be steering their child in the right direction before that child grows into a confused man with big problems.   if he gets to adulthood and still wants to wear a dress then crack on.  its his life....
		
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I agree with you but no doubt according to others we are dinosaurs living in the dark ages.


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## Neilds (Dec 30, 2017)

drive4show said:



			I agree with you but no doubt according to others we are dinosaurs living in the dark ages.
		
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Surely in the world of free speech, people should be able to disagree with what ever they donâ€™t believe in. If you think it is wrong for a man/boy to wear a dress, you should be able to say that without being branded a dinosaur.  But it seems like the world has gone too far one way and if you disagree with the new PC thinking then you are in the wrong and should be shot.

and before anyone jumps on this, I am just advocating making your thoughts known and in no way am I condoning bullying, violence or any other kind of discrimination


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## Hobbit (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			boys shouldn't be wearing dresses and parents should be steering their child in the right direction before that child grows into a confused man with big problems.   if he gets to adulthood and still wants to wear a dress then crack on.  its his life....
		
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The "right direction..." How confused would a boy be if he feels he is a girl in a boy's body and is forced(his thoughts) to dress wrongly?

Isn't the thought of "right direction" a narrowness of mind, and a prejudice in its own right?


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			The "right direction..." How confused would a boy be if he feels he is a girl in a boy's body and is forced(his thoughts) to dress wrongly?

Isn't the thought of "right direction" a narrowness of mind, and a prejudice in its own right?
		
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no i Dont think it is.  if a boy feels like a girl but in a boys body then i put that blame at the feet of the parents.  i dont think we are wired differently from birth.  i personally believe that we are born a blank book.  but thats just my opinion.    i think that allowing a boy to be a girl only adds to the confusion.    

however, if the the boy is persistent in being a girl then there has to be a point when you stop fighting it and support them.  i just think that you should exhaust all your opinions before you allow your child to grow up looking like Eddie izzard


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			yet you can't wear jeans to a golf club
		
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Can at mine.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			no i Dont think it is.  if a boy feels like a girl but in a boys body then i put that blame at the feet of the parents.  i dont think we are wired differently from birth.  i personally believe that we are born a blank book.  but thats just my opinion.    i think that allowing a boy to be a girl only adds to the confusion.
		
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So what you are saying is that the meer act of putting a new born baby boy in a blanket or shawl is the reason  an older boy wants to wear a dress?

It has nothing to do with the way you are brought up, it is whats inside your head. 
What has changed is that society is more open and communicative about such things, and social media has allowed the World and his dog to interact in yours and anyones life if you choose to let them, along with the internet and forums where the opinionated can judge away to anyone that's reading.

For the record, I thought LH was wrong to say what he did, but at least it was deleted quickly and the apology followed quickly also.


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			no i Dont think it is.  if a boy feels like a girl but in a boys body then i put that blame at the feet of the parents.  i dont think we are wired differently from birth.  i personally believe that we are born a blank book.  but thats just my opinion.    i think that allowing a boy to be a girl only adds to the confusion.    

however, if the the boy is persistent in being a girl then there has to be a point when you stop fighting it and support them.  i just think that you should exhaust all your opinions before you allow your child to grow up looking like Eddie izzard
		
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Whatâ€™s your basis for this? Your professional opinion? 
The clothes you wear donâ€™t define gender. Gender neutrality or otherwise is a separate issue. As for the bullying, how about this for an idea, what not address the bullying, rather than alienating the victim.
Maybe a lack of understanding should be a barrier to having an opinion?


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			The "right direction..." How confused would a boy be if he feels he is a girl in a boy's body and is forced(his thoughts) to dress wrongly?

Isn't the thought of "right direction" a narrowness of mind, and a prejudice in its own right?
		
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The right direction is dictated by the narrow mindedness of others. 
I donâ€™t get the fear!


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			So what you are saying is that the meer act of putting a new born baby boy in a blanket or shawl is the reason  an older boy wants to wear a dress?

It has nothing to do with the way you are brought up, it is whats inside your head. 
What has changed is that society is more open and communicative about such things, and social media has allowed the World and his dog to interact in yours and anyones life if you choose to let them, along with the internet and forums where the opinionated can judge away to anyone that's reading.

For the record, I thought LH was wrong to say what he did, but at least it was deleted quickly and the apology followed quickly also.
		
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no. I'm saying that having a boy and treating him like a pansy and acting like a girl will most likely end up making him "different" in later life

and you can't say its what's in you head and not how you are brought up because you don't know.  that is your opinion.   it's never will and wont be proven either way. 

strange children tend it have stange parents.  not all the time but most of the time


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Whatâ€™s your basis for this? Your professional opinion? 
The clothes you wear donâ€™t define gender. Gender neutrality or otherwise is a separate issue. As for the bullying, how about this for an idea, what not address the bullying, rather than alienating the victim.
Maybe a lack of understanding should be a barrier to having an opinion?
		
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first of all i didn't mention the bullying. 

second of all i said "i think"  ie its my opinion.


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## Bunkermagnet (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			no. I'm saying that having a boy and* treating him like a pansy *and acting like a girl will most likely end up making him "different" in later life

and you can't say its what's in you head and not how you are brought up because you don't know.  that is your opinion.   it's never will and wont be proven either way. 

strange children tend it have stange parents.  not all the time but most of the time
		
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To be totally frank, your terminology sums up your mindset and  true colours.

Yes we all have different opinions, thats what makes a forum,  but I thank you for showing me where your real  thoughts are.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			To be totally frank, your terminology sums up your mindset and  true colours.

Yes we all have different opinions, thats what makes a forum,  but I thank you for showing me where your real  thoughts are.
		
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good.   they are my real thoughts.   I'm a little surprised why you're thanking me for showing you my thoughts and true colours.  why would you care about the thoughts of a stranger?


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## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

MegaSteve said:



			Out of interest, on the days you wear a dress which lavvies do you use?

I only ask as we had a crossdresser visit my place of work recently and he chose to use the ladies which drew a strongly worded letter of complaint from one of the buildings other tenants...
		
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How did you know the person was a cross dresser and not a transgendered?


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			strange children tend it have stange parents.  not all the time but most of the time
		
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&#128514; forum gold


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## Hobbit (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			no. I'm saying that having a boy and treating him like a pansy and acting like a girl will most likely end up making him "different" in later life

and you can't say its what's in you head and not how you are brought up because you don't know.  that is your opinion.   it's never will and wont be proven either way. 

strange children tend it have stange parents.  not all the time but most of the time
		
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Where your argument falls flat on its face is where there is a family of, say, 4 children one of which is gay. All brought up the same way, all went through the same schools with the same teachers...

"Right direction," and "stop fighting it." And there's now "strange children tend to have strange parents." At least with learned behaviours there's a hope your children will grow up less narrow minded.


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			good.   they are my real thoughts.   I'm a little surprised why you're thanking me for showing you my thoughts and true colours.  why would you care about the thoughts of a stranger?
		
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Are you allowed to use the internet without supervision? Surely there are laws that protect you & us?


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Are you allowed to use the internet without supervision? Surely there are laws that protect you & us?
		
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no.  Normal people just accept that they don't like what they are hearing and move on with no feelings hurt.  some other people however........


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

Hobbit said:



			"Right direction," and "stop fighting it." And there's now "strange children tend to have strange parents." At least with learned behaviours there's a hope your children will grow up less narrow minded.
		
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well, my aim is to steer my child in a direction not to want to have sex with another mans backside  and wear high heals.  if thats narrow minded then I'll take that thanks. 

if he is that way inclined then i can live with that too.  I'd just prefer the other


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			no.  Normal people just accept that they don't like what they are hearing and move on with no feelings hurt.  some other people however........
		
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Donâ€™t know what youâ€™re on about, but I guess you donâ€™t know either


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			well, my aim is to steer my child in a direction not to want to have sex with another mans backside  and wear high heals.  if thats narrow minded then I'll take that thanks. 

if he is that way inclined then i can live with that too.  I'd just prefer the other
		
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Iâ€™m not sure that you should be allowed to reproduce either


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Iâ€™m not sure that you should be allowed to reproduce either 

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ouch.  right in the feelings

at least I'm not getting personal because you don't share my opinion


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			ouch.  right in the feelings

at least I'm not getting personal because you don't share my opinion
		
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Itâ€™s  not personal, I just donâ€™t think you should pass on this nonsense to the next generation


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## Liverpoolphil (Dec 30, 2017)

Blimey - a bit of an eye opener in some regards but expected with others 

For me itâ€™s always about someoneâ€™s own personal choice and each and every one of us should be free to make their own choices , my child will be free to be whoever she wants , follow whatever path she wants - she wonâ€™t be directed in anyway , she will be helped anytime she needs help. There is no â€œright directionâ€ and no â€œwrong directionâ€ if itâ€™s within the laws of the land. There is no â€œbase layerâ€ for each person , we arenâ€™t moulded in the same way , we are unique- if a young boy wants to wear girls clothes - so what ? His choice - suggesting itâ€™s him acting like a â€œpansyâ€ is the sort of bigoted views that have forced people to hide their true self and leads to bullying and in some cases suicide because they are made to feel like outcasts for not being able to express their true feelings

As for posting or saying opinions - itâ€™s always the same mantra for me - free speech must always come with responsibility and ensure itâ€™s not demeaning or insulting


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Itâ€™s  not personal, I just donâ€™t think you should pass on this nonsense to the next generation
		
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earlier in the discussion you said that we should address the bully and not the victim so these people can be free to be different.  you then personally attacked me by saying that i shouldn't be allowed to reproduce because in your opinion i am wrong or different.   that makes you guilty of your own argument.   

i haven't got personal with you...   MR bully


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			earlier in the discussion you said that we should address the bully and not the victim so these people can be free to be different.  you then personally attacked me by saying that i shouldn't be allowed to reproduce because in your opinion i am wrong or different.   that makes you guilty of your own argument.   

i haven't got personal with you...   MR bully
		
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Iâ€™m out mate. Good luck at the shallow end :thup:


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## sawtooth (Dec 30, 2017)

Surely sexuality or gender is not a choice thing, people are made that way and are born to think the way that they do.


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## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			well, my aim is to steer my child in a direction not to want to have sex with another mans backside  and wear high heals.  if thats narrow minded then I'll take that thanks. 

if he is that way inclined then i can live with that too.  I'd just prefer the other
		
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You do not steer someone to be gay or transgendered its how they are. 

However you could steer them to make them feel guilty about it, try to surpress it and sadly in some cases take their own lives because they cannot cope.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

louise_a said:



			You do not steer someone to be gay or transgendered its how they are. 

However you could steer them to make them feel guilty about it, try to surpress it and sadly in some cases take their own lives because they cannot cope.
		
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you have no proof of that.   if they have become or are they born is a discussion that is still baffling scientists today.  it will never be answered


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## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			you have no proof of that.   if they have become or are they born is a discussion that is still baffling scientists today.  it will never be answered
		
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I speak from my own personal experience!


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

louise_a said:



			I speak from my own personal experience!
		
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my personal experience is my cousin was into men until she was 16.  she was raped and is now a lesbian.  

was that because of the rape??  even she says most likely.  thats just one case and i understand that.  and for this reason people will never know


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## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

While that was terrible for your cousin, it isn't a very good example for your argument as that was a traumatic experience which fortunately very few people have to experience.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

louise_a said:



			While that was terrible for your cousin, it isn't a very good example for your argument as that was a traumatic experience which fortunately very few people have to experience.
		
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i agree and could understand why she doesn't like men because of that.  I'm just saying that people turn out the way they are because of many factors.   i just don't think we are born wired a certain way.   but like someone missed before.  that's just what i think


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## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

So how do you explain the person who tries to live their life as they were expected to only to finally accept what they knew from being young and undergo gender reassignment in their 50s?


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## Dellboy (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			boys shouldn't be wearing dresses and parents should be steering their child in the right direction before that child grows into a confused man with big problems.   if he gets to adulthood and still wants to wear a dress then crack on.  its his life....
		
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:thup:


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

louise_a said:



			So how do you explain the person who tries to live their life as they were expected to only to finally accept what they knew from being young and undergo gender reassignment in their 50s?
		
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i think many things mould a child/ young adult and there are critical times in those years.  for example I lost my mom when i was 12.  as a result i am very good at dealing with news that would leave most devastated.  i am often called  emotionally cold.   I'm not, i just have a tough exterior because of past events. 
i think just because a mother or father wants them to be a certain way doesn't translate into them doing it the right way. 

a chap i work with is gay and a only child.   his parents wanted a girl and was told they was getting a girl.   he was treated as  girl as a child.  even had longish hair that his mom used to plat.    its a long story but he jokes "no wonder I'm a flamer with the way my mom treated me"

when he came out his mom was devastated and almost disowned him.....   was the way she Brought him up a deciding factor?  who knows.


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## Slime (Dec 30, 2017)

louise_a said:



			So how do you explain the person who tries to live their life as they were expected to only to finally accept what they knew from being young and undergo gender reassignment in their 50s?
		
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I totally get that, but we're talking about a five year old and I'm pretty sure that at that age he's not aware of his sexuality so why not bring a little boy up as a little boy and let him decide his sexual orientation when he's old enough to do so for himself?


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## chrisd (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			if a boy feels like a girl but in a boys body then i put that blame at the feet of the parents.
		
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Are you serious??


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## Lazkir (Dec 30, 2017)

Bunkermagnet said:



			To be totally frank, your terminology sums up *your mindset and  true colours.*

Yes we all have different opinions, thats what makes a forum,  b*ut I thank you for showing me where your real  thoughts are*.
		
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therod said:



			Are you allowed to use the internet without supervision? Surely there are laws that protect you & us?
		
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therod said:



			Iâ€™m not sure that you should be allowed to reproduce either 

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therod said:



			Itâ€™s  not personal, I just donâ€™t think you should pass on this nonsense to the next generation
		
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therod said:



			Iâ€™m out mate. Good luck at the shallow end :thup:
		
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Point proven on the 'not allowed to have an opinion' part.
For some who proport to abhor bullying in any form, they seem to manage to convey their own ad hominen type of bullying themselves.
Why not just argue your case rather than attack the messenger?


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

Lazkir said:



			Point proven on the 'not allowed to have an opinion' part.
For some who proport to abhor bullying in any form, they seem to manage to convey their own ad hominen type of bullying themselves.
Why not just argue your case rather than attack the messenger?
		
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Ok....back in. Of course youâ€™re allowed to have an opinion but when that opinion is communicated using homophobic slurs like â€˜pansyâ€™ and strongly implying that a different view on gender, sexuality and all there in, is not the norm then I think you can expect to be a called a bellend.
There is a conservative point of view that hides behind â€˜not being allowed to have an opinionâ€™ when
that point of view is offensive because there is a victim, a target to that point of view. Ie the subject whose lifestyle is â€˜objectionableâ€™. 

Some of these opinions are uniformed generalist nonsense. 
Heterosexual white males, frequenting Golf forums may not be the most progressive group in society but I donâ€™t understand they think wearing a dress is not normal & why their position is threatened by a different view on the above. You canâ€™t catch gayness!! 

There also seems to be a really lazy point of view, that gender & sexuality are linked...they are not.


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## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

Slime said:



			I totally get that, but we're talking about a five year old and I'm pretty sure that at that age he's not aware of his sexuality so why not bring a little boy up as a little boy and let him decide his sexual orientation when he's old enough to do so for himself?
		
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There is a big difference between bringing a boy up as a boy and belittling him for wearing a dress, would they do the same if it was little girl wearing trousers?


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			no. I'm saying that having a boy and treating him like a pansy and acting like a girl will most likely end up making him "different" in later life
		
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Lazkir said:



			Point proven on the 'not allowed to have an opinion' part.
For some who proport to abhor bullying in any form, they seem to manage to convey their own ad hominen type of bullying themselves.
Why not just argue your case rather than attack the messenger?
		
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If youâ€™re gonna quote the replies you need to add context, no?

Any thoughts on the above?


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Ok....back in. Of course youâ€™re allowed to have an opinion but when that opinion is communicated using homophobic slurs like â€˜pansyâ€™ and strongly implying that a different view on gender, sexuality and all there in, is not the norm then I think you can expect to be a called a bellend.
There is a conservative point of view that hides behind â€˜not being allowed to have an opinionâ€™ when
that point of view is offensive because there is a victim, a target to that point of view. Ie the subject whose lifestyle is â€˜objectionableâ€™. 

Some of these opinions are uniformed generalist nonsense. 
Heterosexual white males, frequenting Golf forums may not be the most progressive group in society but I donâ€™t understand they think wearing a dress is not normal & why their position is threatened by a different view on the above. You canâ€™t catch gayness!! 

There also seems to be a really lazy point of view, that gender & sexuality are linked...they are not.
		
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thought you where out!   

i have not used any homophobic slurs at all. 

i said "treaties a boy like a pansy offensive"


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			thought you where out!   

i have not used any homophobic slurs at all. 

i said "treaties a boy like a pansy offensive"
		
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Back in! Itâ€™s my Christmas mission to welcome you fellas into the 21st century! 
The use of pansy in that context is a homophobic slur, hence the response.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Ok....back in. Of course youâ€™re allowed to have an opinion but when that opinion is communicated using homophobic slurs like â€˜pansyâ€™ and strongly implying that a different view on gender, sexuality and all there in, is not the norm then I think you can expect to be a called a bellend.
There is a conservative point of view that hides behind â€˜not being allowed to have an opinionâ€™ when
that point of view is offensive because there is a victim, a target to that point of view. Ie the subject whose lifestyle is â€˜objectionableâ€™. 

Some of these opinions are uniformed generalist nonsense. 
Heterosexual white males, frequenting Golf forums may not be the most progressive group in society but I donâ€™t understand they think wearing a dress is not normal & why their position is threatened by a different view on the above. You canâ€™t catch gayness!! 

There also seems to be a really lazy point of view, that gender & sexuality are linked...they are not.
		
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get a grip.  i said "treating a boy like a pansy"   that has no relation to homosexuality at all.  you are just searching for ammunition to justify your personal attack on me.   i find it a amusing that you have been  offended by me saying an imaginary boy is a pansy.  you are a sensitive person aren't you!! 

someone else has also called you out so jog on MR Bully


oh, and "pansy"  means being weak and pathetic.   no mention of homosexuality in the dictionary


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## chrisd (Dec 30, 2017)

I absolutely cannot see how anybody's sexuality is decided at any time after birth and anyone who suggests otherwise is wholly wrong


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I absolutely cannot see how anybody's sexuality is decided at any time after birth and anyone who suggests otherwise is wholly wrong
		
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then   give me proof.   you  are stating an opinion not fact.


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## louise_a (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			get a grip.  i said "treating a boy like a pansy"   that has no relation to homosexuality at all.  you are just searching for ammunition to justify your personal attack on me.   i find it a amusing that you have been  offended by me saying an imaginary boy is a pansy.  you are a sensitive person aren't you!! 

someone else has also called you out so jog on MR Bully


oh, and "pansy"  means being weak and pathetic.   no mention of homosexuality in the dictionary
		
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You obviously didn't look in this dictionary

panÂ·sy
   (pÄƒnâ€²zÄ“)
n. pl. panÂ·sies 
1.  Any of various plants of the genus Viola, especially V. tricolor or its hybrids, widely cultivated for their flowers with velvety petals of various colors.

2.  A deep to strong violet.

3.  Offensive Slang 
a.  Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate.

b.  Used as a disparaging term for a gay man.


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## bluewolf (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			then   give me proof.   you  are stating an opinion not fact.
		
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Not wanting to be part of the larger discussion, but...

If you think that homosexuality (for example) is a learned trait, then can I assume that you think there is/can be a cure for it?


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			get a grip.  i said "treating a boy like a pansy"   that has no relation to homosexuality at all.  you are just searching for ammunition to justify your personal attack on me.   i find it a amusing that you have been  offended by me saying an imaginary boy is a pansy.  you are a sensitive person aren't you!! 

someone else has also called you out so jog on MR Bully


oh, and "pansy"  means being weak and pathetic.   no mention of homosexuality in the dictionary
		
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Youâ€™re  a fireman, correct?  Use the term â€˜pansyâ€™ at work, see how you get on. 
There was no personal attack, I just hoped that you wouldnâ€™t pass on your obvious prejudice on to any children that you may have.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Back in! Itâ€™s my Christmas mission to welcome you fellas into the 21st century! 
The use of pansy in that context is a homophobic slur, hence the response.
		
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so,   i have offended you by using the  word  pansy in the context set  out in the dictionary "WEAK AND PATHETIC" and you  have attached homosexuality to it and it my fault? 

this is what i mean people.  free to have an opinion?  only if  another person doesn't take something out of context so it hurts their poor little feelings.

people just need to man up. what an existence people have if they  get offended by a single word used by a stranger?


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Youâ€™re  a fireman, correct?  Use the term â€˜pansyâ€™ at work, see how you get on. 
There was no personal attack, I just hoped that you wouldnâ€™t pass on your obvious prejudice on to any children that you may have.
		
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you shouldn't be able to reproduce is  an attack no matter how you look at it. 

and  as for using pansy at work i would simply have to  justify rightly or wrongly why  i called someone weak and pathetic at work..

but the truth is behind closed door we hear a lot worse.  we   just don't go crying on forums


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## Lazkir (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			If youâ€™re gonna quote the replies you need to add context, no?

Any thoughts on the above?
		
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A couple.

I agree that the way you treat your children will have a massive affect on their later life(s). The nature v nurture balance is a difficult one though. 
A good example is that Canadian couple that refuses to give their child a gender, that is going to be one very confused child imo, but that's slighty ot so...

As regards the 'pansy' bit which you seem to find really offensive, I personally have no real problem with it unless it's used to bully or belittle someone. In the context hovis uses it, I think it's just a descriptive way to get his pov across. Not eloquent, but I get his drift.

Edited for clarity.


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			so,   i have offended you by using the  word  pansy in the context set  out in the dictionary "WEAK AND PATHETIC" and you  have attached homosexuality to it and it my fault? 

this is what i mean people.  free to have an opinion?  only if  another person doesn't take something out of context so it hurts their poor little feelings.

people just need to man up. what an existence people have if they  get offended by a single word used by a stranger?
		
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Why would it offend me? Iâ€™m not gay. I can however find it offensive, and without place in modern society.
You, and others, can dismiss this as me being one of the professionally offended, but thatâ€™s missing the point.
I know which side of the argument I am on, and it feels good to be over here !


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## chrisd (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			then   give me proof.   you  are stating an opinion not fact.
		
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I accept it's my opinion but I've never met anyone who's gay suggesting that they ever had a choice in their sexuality and a couple of family members who are gay, one male and one female of very different ages, have told me that they never chose same sex relationships because of their upbringing it's simply in their genes


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

Lazkir said:



			A couple.

I agree that the way you treat your children will have a massive affect on their later life(s). The nature v nurture balance is a difficult one though. 

As regards the 'pansy' bit which you seem to find really offensive, I personally have no real problem with it unless it's used to bully or belittle someone. In the context hovis uses it, I think it's just a descriptive way to get his pov across. Not eloquent, but I get his drift.  A good example is that Canadian couple that refuses to give their child a gender, that is going to be one very confused child imo, but that's slighty ot so...
		
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Extreme cases  arenâ€™t great examples, but I donâ€™t disagree with you. 
Weâ€™re gonna go around in circles, as is the nature of this forum, but there is nothing wrong with a small boy exploring pre conceived gender boundaries, it doesnâ€™t make him gay, gender fluid etc etc, heâ€™s just playing. To out him in front of 5.7 million instagram followers is wrong, and to imply him wearing a dress is wrong is uninformed.

Re pansy, again weâ€™re not gonna agree. Itâ€™s use in that context offensive IMO and is revealing regards those who would use it.
There are worse words that could be used, but the implication is the same.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I accept it's my opinion but I've never met anyone who's gay suggesting that they ever had a choice in their sexuality and a couple of family members who are gay, one male and one female of very different ages, have told me that they never chose same sex relationships because of their upbringing it's simply in their genes
		
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I'm not saying that a parent sits down and says "son,  be  gay".        ..


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## Hobbit (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			what an existence people have if they  get offended by a single word used by a stranger?
		
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You don't get to chose what offends people. The person on the receiving end determines if you are offensive or not. You will know that what you say to the guys on watch with you you couldn't say to your mum-in-law. And knowing what is acceptable out on the course with your regular 4 ball may not be acceptable in an inter-club mixed comp. 

In some things you may well be right, and someone might be too sensitive but if you have a majority of people saying you're extreme, then you are extreme.

As to scientists not knowing what makes a homosexual person, you're right they don't know exactly. However, they do agree that it isn't learned nor is it the result of trauma.  It may be 'released' because of trauma, i.e. a subconscious excuse to say what they really are. The root of homosexuality resides in a mix of hormones and dna. And it is recognised by the scientific community that there is no substantive evidence to back up your claim that parenting will affect sexuality.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Extreme cases  arenâ€™t great examples, but I donâ€™t disagree with you. 
Weâ€™re gonna go around in circles, as is the nature of this forum, but there is nothing wrong with a small boy exploring pre conceived gender boundaries, it doesnâ€™t make him gay, gender fluid etc etc, heâ€™s just playing. To out him in front of 5.7 million instagram followers is wrong, and to imply him wearing a dress is wrong is uninformed.

Re pansy, again weâ€™re not gonna agree. Itâ€™s use in that context offensive IMO and is revealing regards those who would use it.
There are worse words that could be used, but the implication is the same.
		
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my definition of pansys
https://youtu.be/r5T8FJ7TldU


if that's not funny then there's no help


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## Lazkir (Dec 30, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I accept it's my opinion but I've never met anyone who's gay suggesting that they ever had a choice in their sexuality and a couple of family members who are gay, one male and one female of very different ages, have told me that they never chose same sex relationships because of their upbringing it's simply in their genes
		
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Same thoughts here tbh. I know plenty of people that have been in straight relationships for years in order to conform to the norm, but eventually found that the lie was damaging their health and sanity. Much happier now they're out.
But I do think that children need guidance from their parents, and if that means keeping them in their defined boxes until they can make their own choices then whilst it's not perfect, I do agree with a previous poster that it will prevent a lot of heartache and bullying while they're growing up. The most evil people in the world (sometimes) are other peoples children, and the damage they can do will last a lifetime.


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			my definition of pansys
https://youtu.be/r5T8FJ7TldU


if that's not funny then there's no help
		
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Thanks for sharing, I love that film!
Iâ€™m not gonna remove all the joy out of life in true â€˜Liverpool philâ€™ fashion, but we arenâ€™t gonna agree except on the 3 amigos


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Thanks for sharing, I love that film!
		
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in my top 5


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## chrisd (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			I'm not saying that a parent sits down and says "son,  be  gay".        ..
		
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Not in so many words, but you said that sexuality is not predefined at birth in your opinion, so, if you're right every child could be bought up to a subsequently chosen sexual choice - or in other words - straight


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

chrisd said:



			Not in so many words, but you said that sexuality is not predefined at birth in your opinion, so, if you're right every child could be bought up to a subsequently chosen sexual choice - or in other words - straight
		
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would you agree that if a boy was kept in a house until  16 and only shown photos of men and told it is normal to fancy them,  then he would turn out gay or do you link his brain would kick in and he'd jump on the first female that walked past?


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## chrisd (Dec 30, 2017)

hovis said:



			would you agree that if a boy was kept in a house until  16 and only shown photos of men and told it is normal to fancy them,  then he would turn out gay or do you link his brain would kick in and he'd jump on the first female that walked past?
		
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I absolutely dont think it would make him homosexual. I'm not sure "jumping on a female" is something that I'd like to contemplate but feel certain that he would be immediately attracted too.


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

chrisd said:



			I absolutely dont think it would make him homosexual. I'm not sure "jumping on a female" is something that I'd like to contemplate but feel certain that he would be immediately attracted too.
		
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ok then.

I'm thinking arnold schwarzenegger  in "twins" &#128513;


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## PhilTheFragger (Dec 30, 2017)

Gents

Extreme hypothetical scenarios only lead to threads going downhill.

Just sayin


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## pauljames87 (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Youâ€™re  a fireman, correct?  Use the term â€˜pansyâ€™ at work, see how you get on. 
There was no personal attack, I just hoped that you wouldnâ€™t pass on your obvious prejudice on to any children that you may have.
		
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I donâ€™t think he would get on badly using it at work.. I work in a very â€œdark humourâ€ environment with plenty of open gay men and women and some of the stuff we come out with to each other would offend every single daily mail reader 

Think pansy has been used more than a few times but to be honest thatâ€™s a toned down word indeed


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## SaintHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Youâ€™re  a fireman, correct? .
		
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Firefighter


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## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			Firefighter 

Click to expand...

:rofl:


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			Firefighter 

Click to expand...




Papas1982 said:



:rofl:
		
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Boom!!!! Yes I apologise for betraying my gender neutral siblings !!! Was gonna say brothers & sisters


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## hovis (Dec 30, 2017)

SaintHacker said:



			Firefighter 

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brilliant &#128513;


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## PhilTheFragger (Dec 30, 2017)

Slightly off topic ( Hope the Mods don't get me)

There was a tweet from a bloke called Guy Manson , who was enquiring if he should be renamed Person, Person Person

tickled old Fragger that did


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## Papas1982 (Dec 30, 2017)

therod said:



			Boom!!!! Yes I apologise for betraying my gender neutral siblings !!! Was gonna say brothers & sisters 

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Isnâ€™t non binary the new term......

Onky joking!


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## User20205 (Dec 30, 2017)

Papas1982 said:



			Isnâ€™t non binary the new term......

Onky joking!
		
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Canâ€™t keep up


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Dec 30, 2017)

Slime said:



			I totally get that, but we're talking about a five year old and I'm pretty sure that at that age he's not aware of his sexuality so why not bring a little boy up as a little boy and let him decide his sexual orientation when he's old enough to do so for himself?
		
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This is the correct answer!

What was the question??


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## Slime (Dec 30, 2017)

drive4show said:



			This is the correct answer!

What was the question??   

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Good point, well made ..................... however, the question was;

Why not bring a little boy up as a little  boy and let him decide his sexual orientation when he's old enough to do  so for himself?


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## Smiffy (Dec 31, 2017)

At Christmas, we used to buy toy guns for my Son and toy dolls for my daughter. Seemed to work. But if they wanted to swap them around a bit, I wasn't going to argue.


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## Pin-seeker (Dec 31, 2017)

Smiffy said:



			At Christmas, we used to buy toy guns for my Son and toy dolls for my daughter. Seemed to work. But if they wanted to swap them around a bit, I wasn't going to argue.
		
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You bought a child a toy gun? ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜±

Its a wonder he hasnâ€™t grown up to be a gun wielding mentalist.


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## SocketRocket (Dec 31, 2017)

I think Parents encouraging children that are obviously not mature enough to understand the concept of gender neutrality are irresponsible snowflakes.    I guess I am entitled to that opinion?


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## User20205 (Jan 1, 2018)

SocketRocket said:



			I think Parents encouraging children that are obviously not mature enough to understand the concept of gender neutrality are irresponsible snowflakes.    I guess I am entitled to that opinion?
		
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Yep, fill your boots! pin-seeker makes a great point? My kids play with guns, doesnâ€™t  make em Michael Ryan ?


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## User20205 (Jan 1, 2018)

SocketRocket said:



			I think Parents encouraging children that are obviously not mature enough to understand the concept of gender neutrality are irresponsible snowflakes.    I guess I am entitled to that opinion?
		
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Happy new year socket! :thup:


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jan 1, 2018)

They do in Scotland  But not all and not all of the time.  Scottish Scouts always look very smart in their kilts...


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## SocketRocket (Jan 1, 2018)

therod said:



			Happy new year socket! :thup:
		
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Hopefully  :cheers:

Wishing you a healthy and peaceful year ahead.


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## Slab (Jan 2, 2018)

Seems he's deleted history from one of his social media accounts, wise move Lewis because... 'Grown Ups don't use Instagram!'


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