# Wimbledon 2019



## Wabinez (Jul 1, 2019)

Not a huge Tennis fan myself, but just caught the end of Cori Gauff against Venus Williams. 15 years of age vs 39....and the youngster came out on top in the first round. Unbelievable.

Next prodigy?

Anyways...hereâ€™s a thread for all you tennis fans!


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 1, 2019)

She was very impressive 

Been some big shocks today already - Zverev and Osaka the big ones 

Watching Edmund at the moment and doing really well 

Great watching Wimbledon


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## MegaSteve (Jul 1, 2019)

My dark horse tip for the gentlemen's singles out on day one...
Also out, the player I currently enjoy watching play the most...

Simona through so not all bad...


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## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

Doesn't sound that surprising, I'm 32 and I'd still expect to lose to a 15 year old at tennis, let alone when I'm 39.


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## Doon frae Troon (Jul 2, 2019)

The young British girl who just won her first round tie is now guaranteed Â£72,000.00 in prize money.
WOW.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 2, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The young British girl who just won her first round tie is now guaranteed Â£72,000.00 in prize money.
WOW.
		
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That's equality for you...


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2019)

Doon frae Troon said:



			The young British girl who just won her first round tie is now guaranteed Â£72,000.00 in prize money.
WOW.
		
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More surprising that a British woman other than Konta won


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## MegaSteve (Jul 2, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			More surprising that a British woman other than Konta won
		
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Heather. Won her match yesterday also ðŸ‘...


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## CliveW (Jul 2, 2019)

Does the BBC believe that we all want to watch tennis? For the next two weeks it is wall to wall on both BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time and then highlights in the evening. Is there any other sport that gets the same amount of coverage?


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## MegaSteve (Jul 2, 2019)

CliveW said:



			Does the BBC believe that we all want to watch tennis? For the next two weeks it is wall to wall on both BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time and then highlights in the evening. Is there any other sport that gets the same amount of coverage?
		
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The Olympics...


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 2, 2019)

CliveW said:



			Does the BBC believe that we all want to watch tennis? For the next two weeks it is wall to wall on both BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time and then highlights in the evening. Is there any other sport that gets the same amount of coverage?
		
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Olympics , Commonwealth Games , World Athletics - World Cup , Euros -

And the good thing itâ€™s all action not hours of stupid studio stuff - plus much more on the red button 

Itâ€™s obviously popular


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## Orikoru (Jul 2, 2019)

CliveW said:



			Does the BBC believe that we all want to watch tennis? For the next two weeks it is wall to wall on both BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time and then highlights in the evening. Is there any other sport that gets the same amount of coverage?
		
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Luckily there are about 500 other channels to watch these days.


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## Slime (Jul 2, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			That's equality for you...
		
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Don't get me started!


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## jim8flog (Jul 2, 2019)




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## MegaSteve (Jul 3, 2019)

John McEnroe doing commentary is about as good as it gets...


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## Dan2501 (Jul 4, 2019)

Highlights of Tsonga-Tomic are worth a watch. Never seen anything like it, Tomic just couldn't be bothered. Rightly fined 100% of his match fee.


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## Orikoru (Jul 4, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Highlights of Tsonga-Tomic are worth a watch. Never seen anything like it, Tomic just couldn't be bothered. Rightly fined 100% of his match fee.
		
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I saw a little clip from that, apparently he's done it before. Amazes me that someone can work so hard to become a professional in their sport, but then not be arsed to actually do the business on the biggest stage. Could give him the benefit of the doubt and say there may be other factors going on in his head though.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 4, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			John McEnroe doing commentary is about as good as it gets...
		
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I may well be in a minority here but I think he is the most overated commentator out there. The BBC lauds him like a king but I don't get it.


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## DRW (Jul 4, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I saw a little clip from that, apparently he's done it before. Amazes me that someone can work so hard to become a professional in their sport, but then not be arsed to actually do the business on the biggest stage. Could give him the benefit of the doubt and say there may be other factors going on in his head though.
		
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I would have thought, the element of his mind(make up) that enables him to work hard, can be just as destructive. The two sides to the makeup are very close together. Certainly I can understand that, as my makeup is a like that, can be 100% or 0% and can happen at a flick of a switch or at any time. Must be hard being in the public eye.

Shame Edmund got knocked out, he had almost won the match and was playing pretty well.


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## Slime (Jul 4, 2019)

Tomic vs Kyrgios could be an interesting match up!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 4, 2019)

Slime said:



			Tomic vs Kyrgios could be an interesting match up!
		
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Who do you think would under arm serve first?

I don't know why either of them play the game. If they dislike tennis so much get another job.


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## Wolf (Jul 4, 2019)

Tomic is renowned for it, had the same issue last year and was all over the news. Something along the lines of I do when I need the money the rest of the time it bores me. 

Wish I had that much talent to earn millions being bored out in the sunshine chasing a ball. 

I love the tennis I've been glued to it since  the French open. If my dad hadn't got me playing golf as a kid I'd easily have spent those same hours hitting tennis balls and often did.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 4, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			I may well be in a minority here but I think he is the most overated commentator out there. The BBC lauds him like a king but I don't get it.
		
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There's the thing... There's often no rhyme or reason why you can warm to some but can't be asked of others... Never liked McEnroe as a player was always for Connors but in the booth I'll hang on to every word... Like his former doubles partner, Fleming, also... I am sure she is a lovely lady but with a mic' in her hand Marion Bartoli is dire...


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## DRW (Jul 4, 2019)

I was hoping Boris Becker wasn't coming back, but think McEnroe is great


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## MegaSteve (Jul 4, 2019)

DRW said:



			I was hoping Boris Becker wasn't coming back, but think McEnroe is great
		
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Think he tries too hard to be more British than a Brit...


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## Wolf (Jul 4, 2019)

Kerber makes an early exit in the ladies. 

Meanwhile Kygrios goes underhand serve against Nadal and Rafa sees the funny side.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 4, 2019)

Great game this between Nadal and Kyrgios. When Kyrgios is concentrating on his tennis he's a joy to watch, giving Rafa a proper match here.


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## USER1999 (Jul 4, 2019)

But then his true character shines through and he loses the match. No focus, all the talent.


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## 2blue (Jul 5, 2019)

Whilst I've enjoyed what Andy has done for British tennis...  where the LTA has failed for decades...  it's rather crass to now see Wimbledon becoming a big 'Celebrity Garden Party' on court, in the crowds, as well as among the commentary team.


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2019)

People having a pop at Kyrgios, I don't think he did anything wrong. The underhand serve was clever and caught Nadal out, and when your opponent is at the net, hitting it straight at them is a perfectly viable tactic. It means they can't get their hands sorted for the volley, and it won him the point. Players would usually hold a hand up to apologise but they don't mean it, it's just a gesture, so I have no problem with him not apologising for it.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			People having a pop at Kyrgios, I don't think he did anything wrong. The underhand serve was clever and caught Nadal out, and when your opponent is at the net, hitting it straight at them is a perfectly viable tactic. It means they can't get their hands sorted for the volley, and it won him the point. Players would usually hold a hand up to apologise but they don't mean it, it's just a gesture, so I have no problem with him not apologising for it.
		
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In his post match interview he came across as being jealous of Rafa and all he has achieved in the game... Probably knowing he hasn't got it in himself to put in the hard work to achieve the same...


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## Orikoru (Jul 5, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			In his post match interview he came across as being jealous of Rafa and all he has achieved in the game... Probably knowing he hasn't got it in himself to put in the hard work to achieve the same...
		
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He is a petulant brat for sure, and I think he's quite hilarious. But in the context of the tennis match there is nothing wrong with underarm serving or hitting a shot at your opponent's body.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 5, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He is a petulant brat for sure, and I think he's quite hilarious. But in the context of the tennis match there is nothing wrong with underarm serving or hitting a shot at your opponent's body.
		
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From what I have seen of him previously he had his good behaviour head on yesterday...


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## 2blue (Jul 5, 2019)

Nadal has got away with 'service delay' for years & years without being called for it. It needs half a doz guys with printed watches on tee shirts to routinely stand-up & call "Get on with it!!"..... as I do at home


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## USER1999 (Jul 5, 2019)

But then Djokovic bounces the ball around 19 times before serving. That is 17 times too many in my view.


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## Wolf (Jul 5, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			But then Djokovic bounces the ball around 19 times before serving. That is 17 times too many in my view.
		
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Totally agree I'm nearly asleep by the time he actually serves. 

As for Kygrios so much talent such poor attitude. I don't see anything wrong with the way he played, the issue is his behaviour towards the officiala, fellow players and media. I don't think he needs apologise either but the way he spoke about Rafa has money and slams what the hell has that got to do with it. He has that as he knuckled down and worked for them perhaps if Nick played less with his mot and more with his racket he may fulfil some of that potential and win slams of his own


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## sam85 (Jul 5, 2019)

Tennis is one of the few sports that I have ZERO interest in but twice I've ended up glued to it this year whilst flicking through the channels. This young american girl Gauff is something else!


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 9, 2019)

BBC Five Live were just talking about the open air viewing area that has the giant screen.  It used to be "Henman Hill" and then "Mount Murray".   Now with Johanna Konta being the only British player left, does it need to be re-named.

Personally I have no problem with telling people I'm going to Wimbledon and I'm going to Mount Johanna


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Pathetic Shark said:



			BBC Five Live were just talking about the open air viewing area that has the giant screen.  It used to be "Henman Hill" and then "Mount Murray".   Now with Johanna Konta being the only British player left, does it need to be re-named.

Personally I have no problem with telling people I'm going to Wimbledon and I'm going to Mount Johanna   

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She's not British anyway, she only moved here when she was 14. Not worthy of having the hill renamed in my opinion. I don't really get why you can just chop and change nationalities. You can't do it in football, and everything should be like football.


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## Imurg (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			She's not British anyway, she only moved here when she was 14. Not worthy of having the hill renamed in my opinion. I don't really get why you can just chop and change nationalities. You can't do it in football, and everything should be like football.
		
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Erm.....so full of cheats then...


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Imurg said:



			Erm.....so full of cheats then...

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No, that's only the Liverpool team silly.


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## Wolf (Jul 9, 2019)

It should never have been Henman hill or Murray Mount which is a bloody terrible name anyway. Should have called it the grassy knowle as people there see so many British hopefuls shot down. 

I actually agree she's not a brit anyway, maybe naturlised as one but still that's probably more because she got better funding here than where she was born and mostly grew up. 

It's like how was Rusedski classed as a brit with such a strong Canadian accent.

It's like all the South African English cricketers it seems off to me. If your playing for a nation surely there should be a better criteria than simply living there or playing there


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2019)

The BBC can attempt all they like to rename it but when people are there they call it Henman Hill. Naming has a life of its own and once done you can't undo it. The fans decide!


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			It should never have been Henman hill or Murray Mount which is a bloody terrible name anyway. Should have called it the grassy knowle as people there see so many British hopefuls shot down.

I actually agree she's not a brit anyway, maybe naturlised as one but still that's probably more because she got better funding here than where she was born and mostly grew up.

It's like how was Rusedski classed as a brit with such a strong Canadian accent.

It's like all the South African English cricketers it seems off to me. If your playing for a nation surely there should be a better criteria than simply living there or playing there
		
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At least Rusedski had an English mother (thanks Wikipedia). Konta has Hungarian parents, was born in Australia and moved here at 14. How can that make you British she was very nearly an adult by then. Tennis fans don't care, they'll just latch onto her because we have bugger all other decent players. Just like how all the English fans blindly followed Murray even though he openly hated the English.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			She's not British anyway, she only moved here when she was 14. Not worthy of having the hill renamed in my opinion. I don't really get why you can just chop and change nationalities. *You can't do it in football, and everything should be like football*.
		
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Iâ€™m pretty sure people have changed nationalities

And itâ€™s also different in Tennis where the players are ultimately representing themselves 99% of the time not their country



Orikoru said:



			At least Rusedski had an English mother (thanks Wikipedia). Konta has Hungarian parents, was born in Australia and moved here at 14. How can that make you British she was very nearly an adult by then. Tennis fans don't care, they'll just latch onto her because we have bugger all other decent players. Just like how all the English fans blindly followed Murray even though he openly hated the English.
		
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Openly hated the English ?! Really - have you got some link to that please


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## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2019)

Diego Costa played for the Brazil and Spain national teams
Thiago Motta got 2 caps for Brazil before switching to Italy
Pepe was born and raised in Brazil, moved to Portugal at 18 and took up citizenship before ultimately playing for the national team.
Wilfred Zaha played twice for England before switching to the Ivory Coast.
Declan Rice played 3 times for ROI before switching to England.

It happens in Football.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Diego Costa played for the Brazil and Spain national teams
Thiago Motta got 2 caps for Brazil before switching to Italy
Pepe was born and raised in Brazil, moved to Portugal at 18 and took up citizenship before ultimately playing for the national team.
Wilfred Zaha played twice for England before switching to the Ivory Coast.
Declan Rice played 3 times for ROI before switching to England.

It happens in Football.
		
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It happens more for other countries than England which is why its more alien to some i guess, we're still yet to have one qualification through citizenship i believe?


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Openly hated the English ?! Really - have you got some link to that please
		
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They asked him who he was supporting in the World Cup and he answered anyone but England. And don't say it was a joke as that bloke doesn't have an ounce of humour in his body.




Dan2501 said:



			Diego Costa played for the Brazil and Spain national teams
Thiago Motta got 2 caps for Brazil before switching to Italy
Pepe was born and raised in Brazil, moved to Portugal at 18 and took up citizenship before ultimately playing for the national team.
Wilfred Zaha played twice for England before switching to the Ivory Coast.
Declan Rice played 3 times for ROI before switching to England.

It happens in Football.
		
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Costa and Pepe examples were stupid, they shouldn't have been allowed. Motta had an Italian grandad though and Zaha was born in Ivory Coast. Rice is clearly English as well. 

People seem to not enjoy playing for Brazil don't they? Three of your examples left them, haha.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			They asked him who he was supporting in the World Cup and he answered anyone but England. And don't say it was a joke as that bloke doesn't have an ounce of humour in his body.
		
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So that means he â€œhatesâ€ the English because he said he wouldnâ€™t support them ? 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/t...cord-straight-on-anti-England-reputation.html


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....nnis/tim-henman-andy-murrays-jibe-1977579.amp

Have you even thought about the context of the comment or even researched about it ? 




			Costa and Pepe examples were stupid, they shouldn't have been allowed. Motta had an Italian grandad though and Zaha was born in Ivory Coast. Rice is clearly English as well.

People seem to not enjoy playing for Brazil don't they? Three of your examples left them, haha.
		
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But they are examples of football players changing allegiance


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## Papas1982 (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			They asked him who he was supporting in the World Cup and he answered anyone but England. And don't say it was a joke as that bloke doesn't have an ounce of humour in his body.



Costa and Pepe examples were stupid, they shouldn't have been allowed. Motta had an Italian grandad though and Zaha was born in Ivory Coast. Rice is clearly English as well.

*People seem to not enjoy playing for Brazil don't they? Three of your examples left them, haha*.
		
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Think it's a case of not thinking they'd get in. Like Zaha jacking in England.


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## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



*Costa and Pepe examples were stupid, they shouldn't have been allowed.* Motta had an Italian grandad though and Zaha was born in Ivory Coast. Rice is clearly English as well.

People seem to not enjoy playing for Brazil don't they? Three of your examples left them, haha.
		
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They were allowed though, so you clearly can do it in Football. 

We've had a ton of players not born in this country play for England. Guys like Raheem Sterling born in Jamaica to Jamaican parents moved here as a kid or Owen Hargreaves who was born in and spent all of his childhood in Canada before moving to Germany never lived in England before he played for us, and you can go back as far the likes of Colin Viljoen who moved from South Africa to Ipswich at 18 and ended up playing football for England 9 years later. There are a ton of examples of players moving between countries. Ferenc Puskas is famous for playing for Hungary but ended his International career playing for Spain.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			They were allowed though, so you clearly can do it in Football. We've had a ton of players not born in this country play for England. Guys like Raheem Sterling born in Jamaica to Jamaican parents moved here as a kid or Owen Hargreaves who was born in and spent all of his childhood in Canada before moving to Germany never lived in England before he played for us, and you can go back as far the likes of Colin Viljoen who moved from South Africa to Ipswich at 18 and ended up playing football for England 9 years later. There are a ton of examples of players moving between countries. Ferenc Puskas is famous for playing for Hungary but ended his International career playing for Spain.
		
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Di Stefano was Argentinian I believe but played for Spain and Colombia as well as Argentina


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## Papas1982 (Jul 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Di Stefano was Argentinian I believe but played for Spain and Colombia as well as Argentina
		
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Dan2501 said:



			They were allowed though, so you clearly can do it in Football. We've had a ton of players not born in this country play for England. Guys like Raheem Sterling born in Jamaica to Jamaican parents moved here as a kid or Owen Hargreaves who was born in and spent all of his childhood in Canada before moving to Germany never lived in England before he played for us, and you can go back as far the likes of Colin Viljoen who moved from South Africa to Ipswich at 18 and ended up playing football for England 9 years later. There are a ton of examples of players moving between countries. Ferenc Puskas is famous for playing for Hungary but ended his International career playing for Spain.
		
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All true, but it doesn't mean people have to like it. 

Playing for your country used to be bigged up as the pinnacle of a career. Imo playing for any other country simply to improve your status doesn't sit right.


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			They were allowed though, so you clearly can do it in Football. We've had a ton of players not born in this country play for England. Guys like Raheem Sterling born in Jamaica to Jamaican parents moved here as a kid or Owen Hargreaves who was born in and spent all of his childhood in Canada before moving to Germany never lived in England before he played for us, and you can go back as far the likes of Colin Viljoen who moved from South Africa to Ipswich at 18 and ended up playing football for England 9 years later. There are a ton of examples of players moving between countries. Ferenc Puskas is famous for playing for Hungary but ended his International career playing for Spain.
		
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Obviously it does happen yeah. I just mean generally I think you should have a connection to the country to play for them. As in being born there, or have a parent (or maybe grandparent) from there. Or if you're going to do it on citizenship grounds I think you need to have moved here as a very young child, i.e. you have grown up in the country and spent the vast majority of your life there. Konta's claim having moved here at 14 is very tenuous to me. Just like Diego Costa's claim for Spain which I thought was a joke when it happened really.

The rules were a bit different back in Puskas and Di Stefano times to be fair. They basically played for Spain purely because they were at Madrid I think.  That was before the rules about having played competitive internationals meaning you can't switch.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			All true, but it doesn't mean people have to like it.

Playing for your country used to be bigged up as the pinnacle of a career. Imo playing for any other country simply to improve your status doesn't sit right.
		
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It doesnâ€™t bother me one way or the others - I was just using facts to counter someoneâ€™s idea that football was the shining light for other sports to look up to when it comes to players representing the nation of their birth etc 

Football has been just as bad as other sports over the years


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So that means he â€œhatesâ€ the English because he said he wouldnâ€™t support them ?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/t...cord-straight-on-anti-England-reputation.html


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....nnis/tim-henman-andy-murrays-jibe-1977579.amp

Have you even thought about the context of the comment or even researched about it ?
		
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What research, I remember watching the bloody interview as it happened. So after considerable backlash, and advice from his PR people, he released statements saying he regretted his comments and they were just a joke. What a surprise.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What research, I remember watching the bloody interview as it happened. So after considerable backlash, and advice from his PR people, he released statements saying he regretted his comments and they were just a joke. What a surprise.
		
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Really ?! I suspect when you blurt out a comment about â€œopen hated of Englishâ€ you clearly havenâ€™t done any research at all and havenâ€™t got a clue about how Murray feels about a â€œnationalityâ€ 

And even if he did support teams against England that doesnâ€™t mean he has a â€œopen hatred of Englishâ€ - hence tour statement was completely baseless and stupid


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## Papas1982 (Jul 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It doesnâ€™t bother me one way or the others - I was just using facts to counter someoneâ€™s idea that football was the shining light for other sports to look up to when it comes to players representing the nation of their birth etc

Football has been just as bad as other sports over the years
		
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I wasn't suggesting a right or wrong, just that I can see the pov.

I do think that English players have had less dubious ties than other nations and maybe that's why some don't like it.


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Really ?! I suspect when you blurt out a comment about â€œopen hated of Englishâ€ you clearly havenâ€™t done any research at all and havenâ€™t got a clue about how Murray feels about a â€œnationalityâ€

And even if he did support teams against England that doesnâ€™t mean he has a â€œopen hatred of Englishâ€ - hence tour statement was completely baseless and stupid
		
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He said in an interview, which I witnessed, 'anyone but England' to win at the World Cup. What on earth research would I do to convince me that I didn't see or hear that? Personally I don't have any affinity for being 'British' anyway - it is meaningless to me. I would no more support a Scottish tennis player than I would support the Welsh football team. I consider myself English.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He said in an interview, which I witnessed, 'anyone but England' to win at the World Cup. What on earth research would I do to convince me that I didn't see or hear that? Personally I don't have any affinity for being 'British' anyway - it is meaningless to me. I would no more support a Scottish tennis player than I would support the Welsh football team. I consider myself English.
		
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ndy-murray-s-comments-about-english-football/

This is the person who sat next him during the Interview and his account of what actually happened 

So again Iâ€™ll ask how is means he has a â€œopen hatred of the Englishâ€ which was your statement


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2019)

And so another unassuming thread goes south


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ndy-murray-s-comments-about-english-football/

This is the person who sat next him during the Interview and his account of what actually happened

So again Iâ€™ll ask how is means he has a â€œopen hatred of the Englishâ€ which was your statement
		
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As if we're going to believe that drip Henman. Obviously told to stick up for him. Also he doesn't even deny that he said it??


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## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Obviously it does happen yeah. I just mean generally I think you should have a connection to the country to play for them. As in being born there, or have a parent (or maybe grandparent) from there. Or if you going to do it on citizenship grounds I think you need to have moved here as a very young child, i.e. you have grown up in the country and spent the vast majority of your life there. Konta's claim having moved here at 14 is very tenuous to me. Just like Diego Costa's claim for Spain which I thought was a joke when it happened really.

The rules were a bit different back in Puskas and Di Stefano times to be fair. They basically played for Spain purely because they were at Madrid I think.  That was before the rules about having played competitive internationals meaning you can't switch.
		
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Oh yeah I don't disagree, I'm not keen on people just arbitrarily deciding to represent a country they have no ties to, but I was just disputing your point that it doesn't happen in football when it quite clearly does


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## Orikoru (Jul 9, 2019)

Dan2501 said:



			Oh yeah I don't disagree, I'm not keen on people just arbitrarily deciding to represent a country they have no ties to, but I was just disputing your point that it doesn't happen in football when it quite clearly does 

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Yeah I mean, I was being tongue in cheek because of how people relate everything to football. But there are at least rules to it, like not having played a competitive game for your original country. Rather than tennis, cricket etc where you can seemingly just move somewhere and start playing for them before very long.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 9, 2019)

Not sure football has much to do in terms of comparison but on the back of the Aljaz Bedene case it can be a minefield

https://lastwordontennis.com/2018/01/13/aljaz-bedene-forced-switch-nationality/


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## Dan2501 (Jul 9, 2019)

As much as people like to talk about it, most of the England cricketers born in another country (most notably South Africa) have pretty strong ties to England, not many examples without. Guys like Trott, Pietersen, Prior, and more recently Eoin Morgan and Jofra Archer all have an English parent and British passports.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 9, 2019)

Someone has got to beat Serena Williams she doesnâ€™t even move


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## Pathetic Shark (Jul 9, 2019)

Wolf said:



			It should never have been Henman hill or Murray Mount which is a bloody terrible name anyway. Should have called it the grassy knowle as people there see so many British hopefuls shot down.
		
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Oh 10/10 for that one!


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 9, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Someone has got to beat Serena Williams she doesnâ€™t even move
		
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My wife was at Wimbledon on Saturday on Court 1. She said it was comical how Williams doesn't move. She pretty much stands in one place and drills the ball. She places it well but if anyone returns the ball out of arms reach she is done for. Unfortunately the quality of the opposition is so poor that she can get away with it. Womens tennis is in a poor state right now.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 9, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			My wife was at Wimbledon on Saturday on Court 1. She said it was comical how Williams doesn't move. She pretty much stands in one place and drills the ball. She places it well but if anyone returns the ball out of arms reach she is done for. Unfortunately the quality of the opposition is so poor that she can get away with it. Womens tennis is in a poor state right now.
		
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Serena showing all of her multi multi championship winning form this evening... The absolute class of those on court... Even a good deal of her athleticism to be seen...

I am not a big fan of hers but can't deny she is hugely talented...


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## Slime (Jul 9, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Serena showing all of her multi multi championship winning form this evening... The absolute class of those on court... Even a good deal of her athleticism to be seen...

*I am not a big fan of hers but can't deny she is hugely talented.*..
		
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Agreed, I just wish someone would put a gag on her, it's just ridiculous.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 9, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/tennis/48930225

Well said young lady


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## USER1999 (Jul 9, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Serena showing all of her multi multi championship winning form this evening... The absolute class of those on court... Even a good deal of her athleticism to be seen...

I am not a big fan of hers but can't deny she is hugely talented...
		
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She is also huge. The larger athlete shall we say.


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## Slime (Jul 9, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			She is also huge. The larger athlete shall we say.
		
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I don't know whether you're allowed to call her huge, in this day and age ................................ I know I don't.
I just call her easy to see.


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## AmandaJR (Jul 9, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Someone has got to beat Serena Williams she doesnâ€™t even move
		
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I was just saying today how difficult can it be to just get the ball over the net a few paces away from her and she's done. It can only be they can't cope with the weight of her shot but just dab it back, hit a defensive lob...make her run and she's out of breath and cheating to get it back - like suddenly needing to change raquet. I don't get it but they must all know and still can't beat her.


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## Crazyface (Jul 10, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			At least Rusedski had an English mother (thanks Wikipedia). Konta has Hungarian parents, was born in Australia and moved here at 14. How can that make you British she was very nearly an adult by then. Tennis fans don't care, they'll just latch onto her because we have bugger all other decent players. Just like how all the English fans blindly followed Murray even though he openly hated the English.
		
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Agreed


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## Crazyface (Jul 10, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			I was just saying today how difficult can it be to just get the ball over the net a few paces away from her and she's done. It can only be they can't cope with the weight of her shot but just dab it back, hit a defensive lob...make her run and she's out of breath and cheating to get it back - like suddenly needing to change raquet. I don't get it but they must all know and still can't beat her.
		
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Spend as much as possible in the first set getting her to run into the net with drop shots to sap her obviously non existent energy levels and she'll be done. Unfortunately most of the women now clout the ball back like the men and the subtleties of the tennis game have long gone. Serena will win again this year having not played for ages. Sad.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2019)

AmandaJR said:



			I was just saying today how difficult can it be to just get the ball over the net a few paces away from her and she's done. It can only be they can't cope with the weight of her shot but just dab it back, hit a defensive lob...make her run and she's out of breath and cheating to get it back - like suddenly needing to change raquet. I don't get it but they must all know and still can't beat her.
		
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Seeing the obvious is the easy bit...
Executing it often proves a tad more difficult...


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## Big_G (Jul 10, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/tennis/48930225

Well said young lady
		
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Didn't think the guy was picking on her, I thought he was confronting the elephant in the room in a very polite manner

Should he have just asked her if she thought she had choked again under pressure like she did in Paris?

Konta looked like a rabbit in the headlights, against a lower ranked player again.

Should journalists not be allowed to ask probing questions?


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## Wolf (Jul 10, 2019)

Big_G said:



			Didn't think the guy was picking on her, I thought he was confronting the elephant in the room in a very polite manner

Should he have just asked her if she thought she had choked again under pressure like she did in Paris?

Konta looked like a rabbit in the headlights, against a lower ranked player again.

Should journalists not be allowed to ask probing questions?
		
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Completely agree, I actually think Konta has had a shocker there in the interview like in the match. The guy asked her a very valid question in a polite manner to address the issue she has when it comes to the big matches.

Then just like in big matches instead of being able to stand up to pressure she crumbled and let the emotion of it get to her.

Those are the questions I want to hear and should be asked


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## USER1999 (Jul 10, 2019)

You would think that with being an Aussie, she would have a bit more grit.


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## Big_G (Jul 10, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			You would think that with being an Aussie, she would have a bit more grit.
		
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Maybe that's why she left, "Snowflakes" wouldn't last long in Australia


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## Foxholer (Jul 10, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Completely agree, I actually think Konta has had a shocker there in the interview like in the match. The guy asked her a very valid question in a polite manner to address the issue she has when it comes to the big matches.

Then just like in big matches instead of being able to stand up to pressure she crumbled and let the emotion of it get to her.

Those are the questions I want to hear and should be asked
		
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Pretty much agree with all of this.

I'm always keen to see her win, but I don't believe she's the 'smartest' player during a match. Those that can (successfully) change tack when their 'natural' game isn't working are truly rare though!

Got to have some sympathy for her though. It's a pretty severe test for a player to go straight to an interview after losing, then be asked pretty probing questions. I'm pretty certain that Konta, and her team, will devise a set of 'brush off' replies for such future questions.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 10, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Pretty much agree with all of this.

I'm always keen to see her win, but I don't believe she's the 'smartest' player during a match. Those that can (successfully) change tack when their 'natural' game isn't working are truly rare though!

*Got to have some sympathy for her though. It's a pretty severe test for a player to go straight to an interview after losing, then be asked pretty probing questions. I'm pretty certain that Konta, and her team, will devise a set of 'brush off' replies for such future questions.*

Click to expand...

This happens at every big tournament, you would have thought they would have had those replies sorted by now. She has been playing long enough, falling at similar stages etc so this can't be a first.  The grumpiness was surely because she knew she had flopped / choked against an unranked player she should have beaten comfortably. 34 unforced errors in 2 sets is poor.

Chris Evert and John McEnroe were talking to Sue Barker after the game and apart from saying that Konta was pants, normally they pretend otherwise but this time they didn't try to hide it, they pointed out she has no plan B. She plays one way, if it doesn't work she can't mix it up. That is only going to get you so far.


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## DRW (Jul 10, 2019)

Djokovic vs Goffin, been a great match so far and how fast are they around the court and not to much noise from their mouths to make it watchable.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			You would think that with being an Aussie, she would have a bit more grit.
		
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Are you suggesting Aussies are tuff?

Hilarious!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 10, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			Pretty much agree with all of this.

I'm always keen to see her win, but I don't believe she's the 'smartest' player during a match. Those that can (successfully) change tack when their 'natural' game isn't working are truly rare though!

Got to have some sympathy for her though. It's a pretty severe test for a player to go straight to an interview after losing, then be asked pretty probing questions. I'm pretty certain that Konta, and her team, will devise a set of 'brush off' replies for such future questions.
		
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I think the point about the severity of the questions is fair. I thought her initial repsonse of saying she's being picked on was pathetic. But he did hound her a little after. 

Can't imagine pl players being asked such stern questions and handling it well (without fines).


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## USER1999 (Jul 10, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Are you suggesting Aussies are tuff?

Hilarious!
		
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No, but in most sports they are gritty performers.


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## Wolf (Jul 10, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I think the point about the severity of the questions is fair.* I thought her initial repsonse of saying she's being picked on was pathetic*. But he did hound her a little after.

Can't imagine pl players being asked such stern questions and handling it well (without fines).
		
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100% agree I actually thought it showed her fragility that instead of just coming out with a quick I lost to a better performance by the other player which would have shut the question down it showed her in a woe is me kind of light.

She doesn't have an adaptable game if her plan A doesn't work she just folds and loses. A top sports person whether they like the question or not would be able to walk out of there thinking perhaps this guy is right what can I do to make me better. But now get the impression she's going to go away and instead of focusing on what she can do to improve at big moments she will instead feel like she's being picked on because someone asked a genuine question.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2019)

murphthemog said:



			No, but in most sports they are gritty performers.
		
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I don't recollect Ash Barty showing much 'grit' when she got beat after taking the first set...

Not do I remember her being aggressively questioned post match...


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## Wolf (Jul 10, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I don't recollect Ash Barty showing much 'grit' when she got beat after taking the first set...

Not do I remember her being aggressively questioned post match...
		
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Difference is Barty is current world no1 and French open champ, she's going to be allowed leway as she's already proved she can hack it and win the big events,. So likely to come back stronger and go again. Whereas the question mark remains over Kontas ability to actually achieve more and learn how to get better.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Difference is Barty is current world no1 and French open champ, she's going to be allowed leway as she's already proved she can hack it and win the big events,. So likely to come back stronger and go again. Whereas the question mark remains over Kontas ability to actually achieve more and learn how to get better.
		
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I would say the difference is that we love to revel in our own sportsfolks failure... It's a national pastime/trait...


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## Papas1982 (Jul 10, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I would say the difference is that we love to revel in our own sportsfolks failure... It's a national pastime/trait...
		
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Some would argue she's not our sports folk ðŸ‘¹ðŸ‘¹

I agree to an extent. Generally we build em up then knock em down at first sign of failure.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2019)

Well, there's a result to please the nation...


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Some would argue she's not our sports folk ðŸ‘¹ðŸ‘¹
		
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I would suggest the delight taken by our wonderful press of ripping into her is as clear an indication as any...


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## Papas1982 (Jul 10, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I would suggest the delight taken by our wonderful press of ripping into her is as clear an indication as any...
		
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I only said in jest after yesterdayâ€™s conversation. Personally donâ€™t see the issue with the press treating her as they did. They should just do that for everyone.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 10, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I only said in jest after yesterdayâ€™s conversation. Personally donâ€™t see the issue with the press treating her as they did. They should just do that for everyone.
		
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Fair do's ðŸ‘...

I've crossed my pain threshold today and probably a bit tetchy...
Well, there's no probably about it...


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## Golfmmad (Jul 10, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I would say the difference is that we love to revel in our own sportsfolks failure... It's a national pastime/trait...
		
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Well I think Konta is being unfairly treated. She didn't play at her best, granted, but its very fine margins in tennis. I saw a good bit of her game and thought although there were anforced errors, at least she was going for her shots and tried her best and didn't just give up. As anybody that didn't see the game would think she had.
As she said in her interview, she would go back to her team and talk about what she needs to work on and try and improve on that.

That Journalist was a complete arse and I thought she handled herself very well. And showed that she isn't going to be pushed around. After all nobody is saying she was going to win the title.
I don't hear many complaints referring to World no. 1 Barty crashing out as she did. Plus all the other top names going out - as they do every single year.

No I'm sorry, why should everyone gang up on Konta like they have. She tried her hardest and lost - that's life - there's always next year, and the very best of luck to her!


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## Kellfire (Jul 10, 2019)

Golfmmad said:



			Well I think Konta is being unfairly treated. She didn't play at her best, granted, but its very fine margins in tennis. I saw a good bit of her game and thought although there were anforced errors, at least she was going for her shots and tried her best and didn't just give up. As anybody that didn't see the game would think she had.
As she said in her interview, she would go back to her team and talk about what she needs to work on and try and improve on that.

That Journalist was a complete arse and I thought she handled herself very well. And showed that she isn't going to be pushed around. After all nobody is saying she was going to win the title.
I don't hear many complaints referring to World no. 1 Barty crashing out as she did. Plus all the other top names going out - as they do every single year.

No I'm sorry, why should everyone gang up on Konta like they have. She tried her hardest and lost - that's life - there's always next year, and the very best of luck to her!
		
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Oh well done. She tried. She should go back to school, sheâ€™ll get a medal for that these days. 

Meanwhile, back in the real world, how about she finds some explanations as to why her game falls apart at crucial moments and fixes the problems and then she wonâ€™t be asked nasty questions by the meanie journalist.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 11, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Oh well done. She tried. She should go back to school, sheâ€™ll get a medal for that these days.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, how about she finds some explanations as to why her game falls apart at crucial moments and fixes the problems and then she wonâ€™t be asked nasty questions by the meanie journalist. 

Click to expand...

My point is that if they treated everybody in the same way then fine. All tennis players lose matches, in every tournament all the time. 
That's the reality.


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## Kellfire (Jul 11, 2019)

Golfmmad said:



			My point is that if they treated everybody in the same way then fine. All tennis players lose matches, in every tournament all the time.
That's the reality.
		
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And you find it odd that the British press would ask a player representing Britain more probing questions when she has a continual weakness?


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## Wolf (Jul 11, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			And you find it odd that the British press would ask a player representing Britain more probing questions when she has a continual weakness?
		
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Bizarre isn't it the British press seeking more info from a player representing Britain rather than another nation ðŸ¤”


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## Wolf (Jul 11, 2019)

I see Serena literally powers her way through to the final again with very little interesting play. Found the match quite dull to be honest. 

Roll on Rafa v Federer tomorrow


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

Golfmmad said:



			My point is that if they treated everybody in the same way then fine. All tennis players lose matches, in every tournament all the time.
That's the reality.
		
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Since she is considered "British" it's hardly surprising that the British press want to question her more than the others is it?

_Edit: Ok it seems I was third person to point this out, lol._


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## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Since she is considered "British" it's hardly surprising that the British press want to question her more than the others is it?

_Edit: Ok it seems I was third person to point this out, lol._

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There's the thing the bumwipe wasn't questioning her... He was delighting in rubbing her nose into the dirt over her loss...

Absolute top journalism... NOT!


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## chrisd (Jul 12, 2019)

I reckon Serena Williams has been nicking tennis balls from Wimbledon! 

She had quite a collection stuffed up her jumper ðŸ¤«


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			There's the thing the bumwipe wasn't questioning her... He was delighting in rubbing her nose into the dirt over her loss...

Absolute top journalism... NOT!
		
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Erm, no I don't think he was. If he's a sports journalist and he's seen her collapse against a supposed weaker opponent, I think he has the right to ask her about that. It's his job. Not much point in her going out to answer questions if the only ones allowed are pathetic fluff like "unlucky today, what are you going to do next, have a week off?"


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## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Erm, no I don't think he was. If he's a sports journalist and he's seen her collapse against a supposed weaker opponent, I think he has the right to ask her about that. It's his job. Not much point in her going out to answer questions if the only ones allowed are pathetic fluff like "unlucky today, what are you going to do next, have a week off?"
		
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Erm, you are TOTALLY and utterly wrong...

To describe said miscreant as a 'sports journalist' is an overstatement of the highest order...


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Erm, you are TOTALLY and utterly wrong...

To describe said miscreant as a 'sports journalist' is an overstatement of the highest order...
		
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What should he have asked her then? What questions would you have asked her?


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## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			What should he have asked her then? What questions would you have asked her?
		
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There's the thing... You are missing my point... He wasn't asking questions... He was delighting on her losing the match... Big difference!


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			There's the thing... You are missing my point... He wasn't asking questions... He was delighting on her losing the match... Big difference!
		
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He asked if she plans to look at how she copes with big points in big matches didn't he? That sounds like a question to me?

I think he's within rights to ask that, tennis players always come out and say 'oh the opponent was really great' and so on without addressing their own faults. He was just calling her on it by the sounds of it. I didn't watch the match, but by some people's comments in this thread, his view was valid. Again, he is just doing his job. If everyone in the room are just yes men nodding in agreement with her assessment then there's no story and no point even doing the question & answer session. 

I think her response shows that his criticism was valid as well. She got really defensive and flustered over it, rather than just eyeballing him and saying 'no, you are wrong, my approach the match was fine'. So I think deep down she knew he had a point.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2019)

McEnroe has commented that the question was valid, the tone of the question perhaps not.

Following her manner of response I would expect that question to be fired at her more and more if she keeps getting knocked out in the same way. Journo's will smell blood now.


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## DRW (Jul 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			He asked if she plans to look at how she copes with big points in big matches didn't he? That sounds like a question to me?

I think he's within rights to ask that, tennis players always come out and say 'oh the opponent was really great' and so on without addressing their own faults. He was just calling her on it by the sounds of it. I didn't watch the match, but by some people's comments in this thread, his view was valid. Again, he is just doing his job. If everyone in the room are just yes men nodding in agreement with her assessment then there's no story and no point even doing the question & answer session.

I think her response shows that his criticism was valid as well. She got really defensive and flustered over it, rather than just eyeballing him and saying 'no, you are wrong, my approach the match was fine'. So I think deep down she knew he had a point.
		
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Do you not think, that being near the top of game, those kind of questions are discussed by the player and their team. And they try to address them.

Talking in the open about such matters is completely different, the manner it was asked and for most people would not be welcomed.

I would also perhaps suggest that given the day before when she beat Kvitova and she had played great, perhaps a bit of the typical a bad day follows a good day...


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

DRW said:



			Do you not think, that being near the top of game, those kind of questions are discussed by the player and their team. And they try to address them.

Talking in the open about such matters is completely different, the manner it was asked and for most people would not be welcomed.

I would also perhaps suggest that given the day before when she beat Kvitova and she had played great, perhaps a bit of the typical a bad day follows a good day...
		
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In which case her answer is simply "yes that's something I'll discuss with my coaches". Question immediately diffused with no fuss. Not "boohoo stop picking on me".


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## DRW (Jul 12, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			In which case her answer is simply "yes that's something I'll discuss with my coaches". Question immediately diffused with no fuss. Not "boohoo stop picking on me".
		
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Why should she answer like you expect or you say, she can answer in any way she wishes and why should she admit to perhaps discussing it in private discussions. Confidence and belief are strange things, so for a lot of people not something to be discussed in the open.

Good on Konta showing a bit of emotion , she had just lost a big match and must have felt pants, put yourself in that situation and I certainly cant help to wonder if my answers would be slightly edgy and temper a bit short/sharp.

Konta is very close to the top of the game, as a result she is far far better than most of the people on the planet, so whom I'm I or you to judge, when such fine margins are the difference between winning and losing in alot of tennis matches.

She did not play well, rather than mentally lost the game on important points, was a real shame to watch the match. I think it was the bad day following the good day situation. So common to see that in all sports.


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## Orikoru (Jul 12, 2019)

DRW said:



			Why should she answer like you expect or you say, she can answer in any way she wishes and why should she admit to perhaps discussing it in private discussions. Confidence and belief are strange things, so for a lot of people not something to be discussed in the open.

Good on Konta showing a bit of emotion , she had just lost a big match and must have felt pants, put yourself in that situation and I certainly cant help to wonder if my answers would be slightly edgy and temper a bit short/sharp.

Konta is very close to the top of the game, as a result she is far far better than most of the people on the planet, so whom I'm I or you to judge, when such fine margins are the difference between winning and losing in alot of tennis matches.

She did not play well, rather than mentally lost the game on important points, was a real shame to watch the match. I think it was the bad day following the good day situation. So common to see that in all sports.
		
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She doesn't have to answer it. But I still think he has the right to ask it. If she just said nothing and 'let's move on' even that would have been better than what she said. As I keep saying, there is absolutely no point having a question & answer session after the game if nobody asks any pertinent questions. She can answer them anyway she likes really, or don't answer them, but let's not criticise the journalists for asking difficult questions.


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## Golfmmad (Jul 12, 2019)

DRW said:



			Why should she answer like you expect or you say, she can answer in any way she wishes and why should she admit to perhaps discussing it in private discussions. Confidence and belief are strange things, so for a lot of people not something to be discussed in the open.

Good on Konta showing a bit of emotion , she had just lost a big match and must have felt pants, put yourself in that situation and I certainly cant help to wonder if my answers would be slightly edgy and temper a bit short/sharp.

Konta is very close to the top of the game, as a result she is far far better than most of the people on the planet, so whom I'm I or you to judge, when such fine margins are the difference between winning and losing in alot of tennis matches.

She did not play well, rather than mentally lost the game on important points, was a real shame to watch the match. I think it was the bad day following the good day situation. So common to see that in all sports.
		
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Absolutely spot on mate. Its good to read comments that are fair and reasoned. ðŸ‘


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## Kellfire (Jul 12, 2019)

Golfmmad said:



			Absolutely spot on mate. Its good to read comments that are fair and reasoned. ðŸ‘
		
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Aka â€œyou agree with my ridiculous notion so I will declare you fair and reasoned even though you clearly arenâ€™t in the eyes of many other postersâ€.


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## DRW (Jul 12, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Aka â€œyou agree with my ridiculous notion so I will declare you fair and reasoned even though you clearly arenâ€™t in the eyes of many other postersâ€.
		
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I'm just grateful that Nadal vs Federer will be on soon, and this thread can actually talk about the games.

Oh what a minute, the thread actually seems very little about the games and the championship 

Have fun


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## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2019)

Too many ridiculously long rallies to favour Feds here. I love watching him play though. Nadal, not for me. Great player, clearly, but too busy, too fidgety.


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## 2blue (Jul 12, 2019)

So, so pleased to be seeing Tennis genius beating Tennis thuggery.....  hope it continues


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## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2019)

2blue said:



			So, so pleased to be seeing Tennis genius beating Tennis thuggery.....  hope it continues 

Click to expand...

No, she won yesterday?


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## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2019)

Stupid challenge there by Feds.


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## PieMan (Jul 12, 2019)

Nadal takes gamesmanship right to the limit with how long he takes to serve and receive serve.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 12, 2019)

Do you think Krygious, or however it is spelt, watches this match? If so do you think he realises the difference in commitment and attitude required to win at this level? I'm no tennis fan but my wife is watching this and I'm seeing 2 blokes giving it everything,  neither giving anything up, both playing high quality tennis. What do you want out of your career?


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## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2019)

I'd be surprised if the final will match the intensity of the second semi...


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## pokerjoke (Jul 12, 2019)

Just an absolute pleasure watching 2 of the greatest if not the greatest produce such a great game.
The class and grace of RF against the swashbuckling Rafa.
3 hours of pleasure,Thankyou.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 12, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Nadal takes gamesmanship right to the limit with how long he takes to serve and receive serve.
		
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Brilliant 
Have you watched the premier league


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## PieMan (Jul 12, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			Brilliant
Have you watched the premier league
		
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Yes of course.

And?


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## pokerjoke (Jul 12, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Yes of course.

And?
		
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I think you know


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## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2019)

Different sport, different way of cheating.


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## PieMan (Jul 12, 2019)

pokerjoke said:



			I think you know 

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Tony as Murph said - totally different sport and rules.

We discussed this at our tennis club the other day and we all agreed Nadal gets away with too much, especially when receiving serve.


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## pokerjoke (Jul 12, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Tony as Murph said - totally different sport and rules.

We discussed this at our tennis club the other day and we all agreed Nadal gets away with too much, especially when receiving serve.
		
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Perhaps your watching the game differently to me Paul.
Iâ€™m admiring 2 great tennis players producing tennis of the likes we may never see again.
Federer is experienced enough to not let it bother him.
Great game,great players whatâ€™s not to like.


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## USER1999 (Jul 12, 2019)

Time wasting cheaty gits faffing about pulling ill fitting shorts out of their bottom. That is what I see. Combined with hurugh noises from one end of the court.
At the other end, I see a wonderful tennis player.


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## 2blue (Jul 12, 2019)

PieMan said:



			Tony as Murph said - totally different sport and rules.

We discussed this at our tennis club the other day and we all agreed Nadal gets away with too much, especially when receiving serve.
		
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Couldn't agree more... as I said earlier... in most aspects he's a tennis thug in that he wants to boss-it all ways. Great achievements no doubt...  but tennis thug still the same. The guy plays table-tennis on a tennis court..... thank God they banned the spaghetti strung rackets years ago.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 12, 2019)

I see it as streetfighter vs goodie two shoes...
Sunday will be goodie two shoes vs boring...


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## Wolf (Jul 12, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I see it as streetfighter vs goodie two shoes...
Sunday will be goodie two shoes vs boring...
		
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Pretty much sums it up for me to. 

In a huge Nadal fan the way he doesn't stop trying for anything no matter whether is a lost cause or he's about to lose, there's no let up until he's actually beaten. 

I hope Federer beats Djockovich as at least Federer has some elegant play and I really can't stand Novak


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## 2blue (Jul 12, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I see it as streetfighter vs goodie two shoes...
Sunday will be goodie two shoes vs boring...
		
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Aye...  a low-punching street fighter... pushing the limits of cheating in some areas....  if that's what you like then you have it. Just as well us golfers don't adopt that attitude, eh?


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## Papas1982 (Jul 12, 2019)

2blue said:



			Aye...  a low-punching street fighter... pushing the limits of cheating in some areas....  if that's what you like then you have it. *Just as well us golfers don't adopt that attitude, eh*?
		
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I presume that is tongue in cheek?


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## MegaSteve (Jul 13, 2019)

2blue said:



			Aye...  a low-punching street fighter... pushing the limits of cheating in some areas....  if that's what you like then you have it. Just as well us golfers don't adopt that attitude, eh?
		
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You really don't like him do you?
What are your thoughts on Max Verstappen?


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## 2blue (Jul 13, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			You really don't like him do you?
What are your thoughts on Max Verstappen?
		
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Nay lad... lighten-up, like all of us, he's just making a living. 
I just think TT has no place on a tennis court.
MV, ...... may well be crap at tennis


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Will be honest. Havenâ€™t watched any of the ladies tennis this year. Cheering for Halep, but really wouldnâ€™t mind if Serena wins. Think sheâ€™s sometimes underrated (if possible). Certainly had a better touch in the past than some would suggest. 

What Iâ€™ve read certainly appears true. Serena not covering ground well.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

First bit of favour for Williams. Never a point replay.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Brilliant performance by Halep. 

The fact they both faced one seed each to get to the final shows the real lack of depth in the game imo.


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## Slime (Jul 13, 2019)

I'm glad I didn't pay to see that!
All done in less than an hour.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			The fact they both faced one seed each to get to the final shows the real lack of depth in the game imo.
		
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Women's tennis is going through a really weak era right now. Could most people name 2 players out of the top 10? Only hardened tennis watchers. The only excitement in the 2 weeks related to a 15yr old. That Williams could get to the final so easily when she barely moves now is worrying. 

It needs a couple of women to step up and take the game by the scruff of the neck. Papas, you are clearly a tennis man, who could they be?


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## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Brilliant performance by Halep.

The fact they both faced one seed each to get to the final shows the real lack of depth in the game imo.
		
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Or it shows the real depth in the game ...


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Women's tennis is going through a really weak era right now. Could most people name 2 players out of the top 10? Only hardened tennis watchers. The only excitement in the 2 weeks related to a 15yr old. That Williams could get to the final so easily when she barely moves now is worrying.

It needs a couple of women to step up and take the game by the scruff of the neck. Papas, you are clearly a tennis man, who could they be?
		
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Tbh there arenâ€™t many imo. The obvious answer being Barty and Ozaka but they donâ€™t seem dominant, simply the best if the rest. Tbh I watch a lot less ladies tennis due to the fact that it isnt as competitive. It seems every few years a few young ones show up then vanish. Talk was made of Sloane Stevens, and now Gauff the sceptic in me would say theyâ€™re both marketable and comparable to Serena Williams which helps. For all the talk of Gauff, if she wins next year she simply equals Hingis record for age, year after that and itâ€™s Sharapova.....

All that said, the menâ€™s isnt too dissimilar in that the greats of the last 15 years are still the players to beat. That said, I think those below them will mean that when they retire the completion will still be good, just not as good as now. Itâ€™ll fall into a fallow period like it did after Sampras before Federer. There will imo be lots of 2/3 time major winners until the next guy steps up.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Or it shows the real depth in the game ...
		
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Do you truly believe that?

Iâ€™ve admitted I havenâ€™t watched it this year. But an injured albeit great player like Williams cruising to a final doesnâ€™t show depth. It shows a weak field that anyone half decent can get through.

True greats of the sport donâ€™t drop like flies, they rise above it. The fact that so many seeds dropped early imo shows that the completion may be great, but itâ€™s more than nobody is particularly good, as opposed to theyâ€™re all great.


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## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Do you truly believe that?

Iâ€™ve admitted I havenâ€™t watched it this year. But an injured albeit great player like Williams cruising to a final doesnâ€™t show depth. It shows a weak field that anyone half decent can get through.

True greats of the sport donâ€™t drop like flies, they rise above it. The fact that so many seeds dropped early imo shows that the completion may be great, but itâ€™s more than nobody is particularly good, as opposed to theyâ€™re all great.
		
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A field could be deep full of poor players. The fact that the seeds dropped like flies would suggest the pool of players are of similar ability on the whole which would mean a deep field.


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## chrisd (Jul 13, 2019)

Theres certainly been talk of few players making the effort to become a real title contender


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			A field could be deep full of poor players. The fact that the seeds dropped like flies would suggest the pool of players are of similar ability on the whole which would mean a deep field.
		
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Ah I see, you were being pedantic for a change.... I'll rephrase to make it clear what I meant. Albeit I'm sure almost everyone else knew.

The fact they faced one seed each shows the real lack of standout quality in the field.


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## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Ah I see, you were being pedantic for a change.... I'll rephrase to make it clear what I meant. Albeit I'm sure almost everyone else knew.

The fact they faced one seed each shows the real lack of standout quality in the field.
		
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Iâ€™m not being pedantic. Iâ€™m saying that your logic is fallacious. Non seeded players making it far into the tournament suggests a field that is similar in ability, thus a deep field.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Iâ€™m not being pedantic. Iâ€™m saying that your logic is fallacious. Non seeded players making it far into the tournament suggests a field that is similar in ability, thus a deep field.
		
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The points system in place suggests that there is actually a bigger gap in talent between the top men (more depth) and the lesser men and yet the top men still get though. So over the course of a season it would appear that the seeds do in fact warrant their places. 

That suggests to me that there isnâ€™t actually this depth you claim there is, simply that the top women arenâ€™t particularly good. And can lose to anyone.

But hey, letâ€™s debate my terminology instead of the point I was making.

Enjoy your afternoon.


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## Kellfire (Jul 13, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			The points system in place suggests that there is actually a bigger gap in talent between the top men (more depth) and the lesser men and yet the top men still get though. So over the course of a season it would appear that the seeds do in fact warrant their places.

That suggests to me that there isnâ€™t actually this depth you claim there is, simply that the top women arenâ€™t particularly good. And can lose to anyone.

But hey, letâ€™s debate my terminology instead of the point I was making.

Enjoy your afternoon.
		
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 Exactly! The top women not being very good and the fact they can lose to anyone means the field is deep!

Iâ€™m really not understanding why you donâ€™t get the point Iâ€™m making. Depth does not equate to quality.


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## Wolf (Jul 13, 2019)

Only just seen some brief highlights of the ladies final but Halep looked brilliant and showed make Serena move and you remove the only asset she has left in the game and that's power. Fair play to Halep, however I agree with @Papas1982 there is a real lack of depth in quality in the women's game. There are very few stand out players in the women's side of the game at the moment and doesn't general make for good viewing.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Kellfire said:



			Exactly! The top women not being very good and the fact they can lose to anyone means the field is deep!

Iâ€™m really not understanding why you donâ€™t get the point Iâ€™m making. *Depth does not equate to quality*.
		
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I fully understand that.

Where I disagree is that you think there is depth, albeit just lots of poor players, I donâ€™t. If you look at the ranking systems. The top women clearly are better than the competition. Therefor there is over a season a pool of 16 good players then lots of rubbish. Seeds losing this year doesnâ€™t suddenly make the field more competitive (deeper).

In the menâ€™s game the top seeds are in fact even further ahead of their peers, but the next tier remain competitive meaning that their is in fact a depth of talent.

Written after research. 

Having done a little research. I think my original op may have been a little misleading. It would appear 9 seeds made the last 16 at Wimbledon. The two finalists only facing 1 each seems to show luck as much as anything else. 
Similar to France.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 13, 2019)

Believe the ladies are over coached... And, any flair/feel for the game is removed at an early stage...


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 13, 2019)

As a non tennis player one of the big differences I noticed was that the women seem to hit largely flat shots, all baseline stuff. They seem to make a lot of errors, keep the ball in play long enough and you win the point. The men put more top spin on their shots, make more winners, passing shots perhaps because of that. It's still mainly baseline stuff but they do occasionally come to the net.

Why the lack of top spin in the ladies game? When it is so integral to the mens game, successfully, why is that not transferred across to the womens game? Any tennis players out there that can answer that one?


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## Foxholer (Jul 13, 2019)

I'm not a Serena supporter, but she was truly gracious in defeat today!

Halep played an absolutely brilliant match - probably the match of her life! 

Williams didn't play badly, but was simply out-fought and outgunned!

I suspect Williams will play a few, but not many, more tournaments in the lead-up to the slams next year - at age 38! She seems to have a , comparitive, lack of stamina. While others, like Halep, have risen to counter her power-blitz style that was so effective in the past!


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## Slime (Jul 13, 2019)

Foxholer said:



			I'm not a Serena supporter, but she was truly gracious in defeat today!

Halep played an absolutely brilliant match - probably the match of her life!

Williams didn't play badly, but was simply out-fought and outgunned!

I suspect Williams will play a few, but not many, more tournaments in the lead-up to the slams next year - *at age 38! *She seems to have a , comparitive, lack of stamina. While others, like Halep, have risen to counter her power-blitz style that was so effective in the past!
		
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Federer will be aged 38 in about three weeks!


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## Foxholer (Jul 13, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			As a non tennis player one of the big differences I noticed was that the women seem to hit largely flat shots, all baseline stuff. They seem to make a lot of errors, keep the ball in play long enough and you win the point. The men put more top spin on their shots, make more winners, passing shots perhaps because of that. It's still mainly baseline stuff but they do occasionally come to the net.

Why the lack of top spin in the ladies game? When it is so integral to the mens game, successfully, why is that not transferred across to the womens game? Any tennis players out there that can answer that one?
		
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Several reasons.....

Men are significantly taller, longer-legged, faster and stronger. This means that to hit winning shots, the ball has to be hit harder/faster. The physics of court dimensions versus ball-speed mean that topspin is, generally, *required* to hit/set up winners by men, whereas it's actually a 'disadvantage' for women (spin slows the ball down, so a 'fast' flat cross-court shot is 'more effective') - as well as being physically more demanding/difficult.

Serena and her power game - which does include, relatively lightly, topspun shots - was a quantum leap in the Women's game - as was Natrilova's a decade earlier. Gone are the days or the 150 shot rallies of the Evert/Austin days, though attrition still has a part to play. Physical fitness is still massively important in Tennis and, I believe, that was a significant factor in today's result.


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## Foxholer (Jul 13, 2019)

Slime said:



			Federer will be aged 38 in about three weeks!
		
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Indeed! Another reason for his 'GOAT' status!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 13, 2019)

Slime said:



			Federer will be aged 38 in about three weeks!
		
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 But he hasn't had a baby 

In all seriousness i think if she's fit for a year then she'll get at least another major. She was injured leading up and as they mentioned, she couldn't exactly pile on the cardio due to it being her knee.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

Fear for Federer already. He was the better player in that tie break but not sure he can win this over 5 sets so needs to win this next one. 

Subtle of Castle to mention to that that first set took longer than the ladies match.


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## Wolf (Jul 14, 2019)

Now it's a matter of shincan dig the deepest and who wants it the most. I hope that person is Federer.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

Gotta feel for Fed. Not losing a a set as such.. 

Looks like one set of fans got vfm on finals day.


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## Slime (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Gotta feel for Fed. Not losing a a set as such..

Looks like one set of fans got vfm on finals day.
		
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It looks like they did at Lords, too!


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			It looks like they did at Lords, too!
		
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Was more tongue in cheek in regards to paying for an hour yesterday...... ðŸ˜‚


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## Slime (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Was more tongue in cheek in regards to paying for an hour yesterday...... ðŸ˜‚
		
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Yeah, it's just that I'm still buzzing about the cricket!


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## User62651 (Jul 14, 2019)

That was a slugfest and a half, not a classic i didnt think, was rooting for Djokovic simply because the crowd were so horribly biased for Fed, but was just willing it to end so I could see some of the cricket and golf, way too long.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			That was a slugfest and a half, not a classic i didnt think, was rooting for Djokovic simply because the crowd were so horribly biased for Fed, but was just willing it to end so I could see some of the cricket and golf, *way too long.*

Click to expand...

I think they've made the right call putting a limit to games on final set. But majors imo should always be best if 5. These guys are ridiculously fit and they quality doesn't fall off a cliff in final sets. 

I prefer Federer but agree the fans in centre court are less than impartial. Much like yesterday with their support for Serena.


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## Wolf (Jul 14, 2019)

Tough loss for Federer, but come the end I was rooting for Novak to simply through the fact the crowd bias was so obvious and I thought he did well not to rise to it.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Tough loss for Federer, but come the end I was rooting for Novak to simply through the fact the crowd bias was so obvious and I thought he did well not to rise to it.
		
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Novak though, is difficult to warm to...
And, I can't recollect too many impartial crowds at any grand slam venue...


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## Wolf (Jul 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Novak though, is difficult to warm to...
And, I can't recollect too many impartial crowds at any grand slam venue...
		
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That he is and I usually agree. However when you look at his record he is in prime position to surpass Federer and become the greatest player the game has had.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2019)

Wolf said:



			That he is and I usually agree. However when you look at his record he is in prime position to surpass Federer and become the greatest player the game has had.
		
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In earnings he is already ahead of Rog...


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## AmandaJR (Jul 14, 2019)

Gutted for Roger especially after a couple of championship points. Just admire his style of play and the fact he goes for winners rather than Novak who waits for a mistake.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			In earnings he is already ahead of Rog...
		
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 Tbf Poulter is ahead of Nicklaus for prize money.... 

Fed only had half a career in the money boom.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Tbf Poulter is ahead of Nicklaus for prize money....

Fed only had half a career in the money boom.
		
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From the size of the rock on Mrs Fed's finger I'd say he's had plenty of opportunity to rake the wedge in...


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2019)

If that was the best ODI ever, this has to be the best tennis final ever. What an afternoon of sport and felt for Federer.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			From the size of the rock on Mrs Fed's finger I'd say he's had plenty of opportunity to rake the wedge in...
		
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Well yeah he has obviously earned plenty. But across all sorts the prize money rises year on year. So the later you started the better. 

16 yr olds break through to footy teams and earn more than players who retired 10 years ago.


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 14, 2019)

Thatâ€™s Djokovic up to 16 now , won 4 of the last 5 , can see him ending up with more than Federer and for me itâ€™s a big shame that he is never mentioned in the talk of the GOAT , he may not be as a classy as Federer but he is superb and imo a bit more exciting and seems to enjoy it more.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Well yeah he has obviously earned plenty. But across all sorts the prize money rises year on year. So the later you started the better.

16 yr olds break through to footy teams and earn more than players who retired 10 years ago.
		
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I am not yet ready to acknowledge Rog as GOAT...
Djoko isn't even on my radar yet ðŸ˜‰...


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Thatâ€™s Djokovic up to 16 now , won 4 of the last 5 , can see him ending up with more than Federer and for me itâ€™s a big shame that he is never mentioned in the talk of the GOAT , he may not be as a classy as Federer but he is superb and imo a bit more exciting and seems to enjoy it more.
		
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I think he may well win more. Would have loved all three of them to have been around at precisely the same time. 

Then all overlapping meant he won a fair few when it appeared Fed and Rafa were starting to fall away (albeit they won a few recently). That's not a criticism of how good he blatantly is. 

I think Fed is the purest fav. He has the titles currently, as well as the style. Djokovic and Nadal both get tainted as Serena does based on their style.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 14, 2019)

Not sure Djorkovic will ever be regarded as the best of all time. I feel, wrongly, that his public persona counts against him. Definitely one of the very best the game has ever seen though


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			I am not yet ready to acknowledge Rog as GOAT...
Djoko isn't even on my radar yet ðŸ˜‰...
		
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Who would you say is goat? 

Surely can only be the 3 from this era?


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## Wolf (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Who would you say is goat? 

Surely can only be the 3 from this era?
		
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Not sure how anyone can say that it's not Roger. Considering he has the most slams. Then it has to be Nadal followed by Novak.

I think though if current trend continues Rafa will equal the overall number Federer has especially with his clay court dominance. But I think Novak will likely surpass both even if only by 1. Whether people like him or not then he has to be the GOAT. But Federer will likely always win the people's vote.

Slightly older generations may hold Borg, Connors or someone of that ilk in higher regard but imo you have to go with who won the most big titles.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Who would you say is goat?

Surely can only be the 3 from this era?
		
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As you will find out as you get older... It's harder to let go of your heros from your younger days... So, I am still sticking with Rod Laver...


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			As you will find out as you get older... It's harder to let go of your heros from your younger days... So, I am still sticking with Rod Laver...
		
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I'm not that young lol

And I fully agree re nostalgia Which is why Matthew Le Tissier is my favourite footballer of all time, but favorite and best is a different thing imo. 

That said. Never saw Laver so can't comment on his game so can only base my opinion on the facts I can look up. Must admit I'd think it's hard to argue a player with just over half the majors of another is better.... 

But concede I've not seen his game so unable to compare.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Not sure how anyone can say that it's not Roger. Considering he has the most slams. Then it has to be Nadal followed by Novak.

I think though if current trend continues Rafa will equal the overall number Federer has especially with his clay court dominance. But I think Novak will likely surpass both even if only by 1. Whether people like him or not then he has to be the GOAT. But Federer will likely always win the people's vote.

Slightly older generations may hold Borg, Connors or someone of that ilk in higher regard but imo you have to go with who won the most big titles.
		
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I'd generally agree, over the course if history. Total wins is the only real decider. But that can only be used when the wins were 2/3 generations past as people around during any top players career will likely have a favourite and will have their opinion clouded.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I'm not that young lol

And I fully agree re nostalgia Which is why Matthew Le Tissier is my favourite footballer of all time, but favorite and best is a different thing imo.

That said. Never saw Laver so can't comment on his game so can only base my opinion on the facts I can look up. Must admit I'd think it's hard to argue a player with just over half the majors of another is better....

But concede I've not seen his game so unable to compare.
		
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Laver had a 'broken career'... Starting off as an amateur then turning pro which barred him from playing in the 'slams'... By the time the sport became 'open' he was probably past his best...


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 14, 2019)

I heard them on the TV talking about Laver the other day. They mentioned he was on the edge of the professional/ amateur era so couldn't play in the full number of grand slams he could otherwise have done. Before my time as well but tennis pros have a huge amount if respect for him as being special.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Laver had a 'broken career'... Starting off as an amateur then turning pro which barred him from playing in the 'slams'... By the time the sport became 'open' he was probably past his best...
		
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That's fair enough and I respect that those that saw him play may well rate him, but unfortunately for those sportsman that played prior to wall to wall coverage as generations pass their exploits will lose wirght if they've not got the records to compete.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 14, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			That's fair enough and I respect that those that saw him play may well rate him, but unfortunately for those sportsman that played prior to wall to wall coverage as generations pass their exploits will lose wirght if they've not got the records to compete.
		
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Sands of time will see Laver's record being overlooked and currently Federer has to be the most likely to be used as the measure for a few decades to come...


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## PieMan (Jul 14, 2019)

HomerJSimpson said:



			If that was the best ODI ever, this has to be the best tennis final ever. What an afternoon of sport and felt for Federer.
		
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A great final but not the best ever. Borg v McEnroe, Rafter Ivanisevic, Federer Roddick, Federer Nadal all better finals.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

PieMan said:



			A great final but not the best ever. Borg v McEnroe, Rafter Ivanisevic, Federer Roddick, Federer Nadal all better finals.
		
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Fully agree. Borg before me. But the others you mention I'd rate them much better. 

Fed Nadal the greatest of all time for me. Second best could arguably be the tussle the they had the year prior. 2 of the greatest of all time at their peak going toe to toe.


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## Slime (Jul 14, 2019)

Please can we not have yet another GOAT dispute that'll go on for days.
We all know, across all sports, that it's impossible to agree on a definitive answer and that the thread will undoubtedly end in a childish bickerfest.
Oh, except for football where we all know the GOAT is Cristiano Ronaldo.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 14, 2019)

Slime said:



			Please can we not have yet another GOAT dispute that'll go on for days.
We all know, across all sports, that it's impossible to agree on a definitive answer and that the thread will undoubtedly end in a childish bickerfest.
Oh, except for football where we all know the GOAT is Cristiano Ronaldo. 

Click to expand...

I thought it was being pretty amicable. 

And weâ€™ve already covered that Le Tiss was the best..... ðŸ˜‰


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## User62651 (Jul 15, 2019)

Re GOAT, there is clear bias towards Fed from UK people simply because of Wimbledon, it's the only tennis tournament a lot of non-tennis people tune into here.
Djokovic is primarily a hard courts specialist, so US and Australian Opens suit his game more.
Fed is very much a grass specialist.
Ivan Lendl was a top player and won 8 grand slams at 3 venues but not Wimbledon as grass didn't suit him. John McEnroe only won 7 grand slams at 2 venues but three of those were wimbledon titles so he gets the plaudits here. Who was really the better player though?


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Re GOAT, there is clear bias towards Fed from UK people simply because of Wimbledon, it's the only tennis tournament a lot of non-tennis people tune into here.
*Djokovic is primarily a hard courts specialist, so US and Australian Opens suit his game more.*
Fed is very much a grass specialist.
Ivan Lendl was a top player and won 8 grand slams at 3 venues but not Wimbledon as grass didn't suit him. John McEnroe only won 7 grand slams at 2 venues but three of those were wimbledon titles so he gets the plaudits here. Who was really the better player though?
		
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Excellent post and you are spot on to highlight UK bias surrounding Wimbledon winners. Jimmy Connors won 8 Grand Slams, 1 more than McEnroe, 2 more than Becker, yet because 5 were US Opens he never gets mentioned in the same breath over here.

One point to raise, the bold bit. Going on that does it not make it more remarkable that Djokovic has now won 5 Wimbledons?


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2019)

I watched the men's final yesterday, great match but I feel like we got the wrong result, sadly. Federer was the better player throughout but for some reason struggled in all the tie-breaks. If they hadn't have changed the last set rules, I feel that Federer would have gone on to win for sure, as Djokovic had only broken him once or twice in the match I think. But Djokovic's tenacity is obviously one of his best attributes and means he can win matches even when being outplayed. Given Federer's age and Nadal mainly only winning the French Open now, I think it's quite likely that Djokovic will surpass the most majors in the next two years. There doesn't seem to be another guy coming through to challenge at that level does there? I don't watch much tennis so happy to be proven wrong there, but it does seem to be these same three guys competing for all the majors and they're all over 30.


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## DRW (Jul 15, 2019)

Djokovic definitely not had his best and still got over the line, done well to stop the two match points at 40:15 on Federer serve.

I think DJokovic is probably the GOAT as in the past has hits highs that neither Fed or Nads have hit and have iirc positive player records against both of them. He beat Nads at the French open and won a French open, whereas Feds kind of got lucky on the year he won as he could never beat Nads at French open(often beaten into the ground by nadal).

Hope he goes forward to gets the most majors.

Still think it is a shame that they made the surfaces similar to each other tho


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2019)

maxfli65 said:



			Re GOAT, there is clear bias towards Fed from UK people simply because of Wimbledon, it's the only tennis tournament a lot of non-tennis people tune into here.
Djokovic is primarily a hard courts specialist, so US and Australian Opens suit his game more.
Fed is very much a grass specialist.
Ivan Lendl was a top player and won 8 grand slams at 3 venues but not Wimbledon as grass didn't suit him. John McEnroe only won 7 grand slams at 2 venues but three of those were wimbledon titles so he gets the plaudits here. Who was really the better player though?
		
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As popular as McEnroe is I would say more of that is due to personality. Very little is usually made of his game nowadays tbh. 

I agree the public adore Federer, but that's not just here and is imo overall more down to his style and the fact he was the first to move it away from simply serve and volley, to claim he is a simply grass court specialist is false also imo. He's won more at Australia and the US than Novak so far too. 

Bith of them are clearly fast court specialists with Nadal being the king of clay.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2019)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Excellent post and you are spot on to highlight UK bias surrounding Wimbledon winners. Jimmy Connors won 8 Grand Slams, 1 more than McEnroe, 2 more than Becker, yet because 5 were US Opens he never gets mentioned in the same breath over here.

*One point to raise, the bold bit. Going on that does it not make it more remarkable that Djokovic has now won 5 Wimbledons?*

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Could it be argued that its mot eimpresive that Federer has won 11 on hard courts been as he's a grass court specialist? 

These days it's only really the French open that's a real diference in regards to the styles. In fact it's been like that for some time. Only really hear the term clay court specialist when certain players would get to semis in France and then go out first round a week later. That was imo one reason they made the break longer between events. To give said specialists longer to adapt before Wimbledon.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2019)

DRW said:



			Djokovic definitely not had his best and still got over the line, done well to stop the two match points at 40:15 on Federer serve.

I think DJokovic is probably the GOAT as in the past has hits highs that neither Fed or Nads have hit and have *iirc positive player records against both of them*. He beat Nads at the French open and won a French open, whereas Feds kind of got lucky on the year he won as he could never beat Nads at French open(often beaten into the ground by nadal).

Hope he goes forward to gets the most majors.

Still think it is a shame that they made the surfaces similar to each other tho
		
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I agree he will likely surpass their records, my only issue with the above is that he has 5 years or so on em. So you'd expect him to have a better record as when he leaked they were ageing.

Re the French open. I agree re Federer, it reminds me a little of when people harshly said Harringtons major wins would have an asterix as Woods wasn't playing...
That said, the year Djok beat Nadal he still didn't win the title so it was of little consequence. 

I think in years to come we will all just be greatful we saw them all alongside one another. 

My guess is that the goat will be whoever has the most between Rog and Djok as Nadals totals are so heavily weighted to one event.


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## Lord Tyrion (Jul 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



*Could it be argued that its mot eimpresive that Federer has won 11 on hard courts been as he's a grass court specialist?*

These days it's only really the French open that's a real diference in regards to the styles. In fact it's been like that for some time. Only really hear the term clay court specialist when certain players would get to semis in France and then go out first round a week later. That was imo one reason they made the break longer between events. To give said specialists longer to adapt before Wimbledon.
		
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Completely agree. They are both exceptional players, it is picky to suggest otherwise. It is a heck of an era.


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			I agree he will likely surpass their records, *my only issue with the above is that he has 5 years or so on em.* So you'd expect him to have a better record as when he leaked they were ageing.

Re the French open. I agree re Federer, it reminds me a little of when people harshly said Harringtons major wins would have an asterix as Woods wasn't playing...
That said, the year Djok beat Nadal he still didn't win the title so it was of little consequence.

I think in years to come we will all just be greatful we saw them all alongside one another.

My guess is that the goat will be whoever has the most between Rog and Djok as Nadals totals are so heavily weighted to one event.
		
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Nadal is only one year older than Djokovic isn't he? It's just Federer who's a few years older.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 15, 2019)

Hard to believe, I know, but there were some great players before colour TV came along... And, Wiki never paints the full picture...


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			Nadal is only one year older than Djokovic isn't he? It's just Federer who's a few years older.
		
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Orikoru said:



			Nadal is only one year older than Djokovic isn't he? It's just Federer who's a few years older.
		
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Fair cop. 

I basically meant their peaks never really overlapped with novak. 

Djok started slightly later, I remember when he seemed to be weak willed and gave up too early. A great turn around from them days.


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## Papas1982 (Jul 15, 2019)

MegaSteve said:



			Hard to believe, I know, but there were some great players before colour TV came along... *And, Wiki never paints the full picture.*..
		
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Cheap dog, us young uns can't coment on what we've not seen. Could easily say nostalgia clouds your mind too.... 

I've never seen anyone play better than the three we have now. Doesn't mean none played better, but historical reports no matter how complimentary or detailed won't overall what someone sees...


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## DRW (Jul 15, 2019)

Been watching tennis since the 80s(teenager) and its interesting how the game has changed in that time and how for the mens side they tend to win later on in years, as I assume the power has taken over.

Wonder how good some players would have been given the strings and courts now, from yester year ? and if they would have won so many more majors, so the likes of Lendl would he have won Wimbledon or would borg have been better than he was, and maybe becker/Sampras/Connors would have won the French open to complete the slams.

Can remember Pat Cash saying in an interview something along the lines off, if he had hit the ball as hard as they do now, the ball would have gone sailing over the baseline by 6 foot due to I think the topspin the strings now impart(?) Sounds similar story to golf and technology.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Jul 15, 2019)

Mrs Hogan is not a fan of either player as for her they are just too dull and emotionless when they are playing (she's a big Nadal fan).  But she swung behind Djokovic as the match went on as the obvious 'bias' of the crowd towards Federer got on her nerves...


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Fair cop.

I basically meant their peaks never really overlapped with novak.

Djok started slightly later, I remember when he seemed to be weak willed and gave up too early. A great turn around from them days.
		
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That's true. Nadal hit the ground running whereas Novak didn't seem to hit his peak until 4 years later.


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## Wolf (Jul 15, 2019)

Interesting  seeing people say Djockovich is a hard court specialist, his slam record would suggest otherwise.

Yes he has 7 Australian open wins, but only 3 US Opens. So that's 10 total hardcourt slams, yet now has half of that alone at Wimbledon with 5. Could be argued that he is a decent all around player with the one exception of Nadal being virtually untouchable on Clay.

Also Novak taking longer to peak could just be he needed find his place in the game or that he realised how much better the other 2 were so found a way to apply himself and develop into the player he is now. I'm also fairly sure Federer has never beaten Novak in a Slam final when they've come head to head. I'd have to double check that stat but if I'm right that's a hell of a record.


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## Orikoru (Jul 15, 2019)

Wolf said:



			Interesting  seeing people say Djockovich is a hard court specialist, his slam record would suggest otherwise.

Yes he has 7 Australian open wins, but only 3 US Opens. So that's 10 total hardcourt slams, yet now has half of that alone at Wimbledon with 5. Could be argued that he is a decent all around player with the one exception of Nadal being virtually untouchable on Clay.

Also Novak taking longer to peak could just be he needed find his place in the game or that he realised how much better the other 2 were so found a way to apply himself and develop into the player he is now. I'm also fairly sure Federer has never beaten Novak in a Slam final when they've come head to head. I'd have to double check that stat but if I'm right that's a hell of a record.
		
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I remember years ago reading about how Djokovic discovered he was gluten intolerant or something, totally changed his diet and his fitness improved tenfold afterwards. So that might have been a turning point for him.

Edit: Also Federer beat him in one final, but way back in 2007 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic–Federer_rivalry#Head-to-head_tallies


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## Wolf (Jul 15, 2019)

Orikoru said:



			I remember years ago reading about how Djokovic discovered he was gluten intolerant or something, totally changed his diet and his fitness improved tenfold afterwards. So that might have been a turning point for him.

Edit: Also Federer beat him in one final, but way back in 2007 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic–Federer_rivalry#Head-to-head_tallies

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Wasn't sure whether I was right about that but still a stat that shows he has the better record between the 2 players.


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## MegaSteve (Jul 15, 2019)

Papas1982 said:



			Cheap dog, us young uns can't coment on what we've not seen. Could easily say nostalgia clouds your mind too....

I've never seen anyone play better than the three we have now. Doesn't mean none played better, but historical reports no matter how complimentary or detailed won't overall what someone sees...
		
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Apologies... I can see why you have interpreted it as a 'cheap dig'... But, it genuinely wasn't my intention for it to be so...


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## MegaSteve (Sep 9, 2019)

Great result for the "thug" yesterday... Superb tennis from both sides of the net... Believe the win puts Rafa one behind Rog...


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