# Zen Golf Mechanics (Marcus Bell + Robin Matthews-Williams)



## Depreston (Jul 3, 2020)

Anyone watched these lesson videos or even had a lesson with him?

I find the approach fascinating 

Also fair play to Robin since he was called out by flow motion he’s knuckled down and worked with Marcus and the content since has been superb


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## LizAig (Feb 5, 2021)

Yes - I’ve had a couple of years of lessons with Marcus. Completely revolutionised my game and became much more natural and fewer swing thoughts.


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## Rangers76 (Feb 5, 2021)

Like their natural approach but sometimes I think their on a mission to get everyone to draw the ball.


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## eddie_1878 (Feb 6, 2021)

Rangers76 said:



			Like their natural approach but sometimes I think their on a mission to get everyone to draw the ball.
		
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Yeah, I’ve also found it seems to be main feature of each published lesson. Not being able to consistently draw it would be at the bottom of a very long list of issues I have with my game. 

I’d definitely consider going there though.


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## Oddsocks (Feb 7, 2021)

Amazed at the fascination with a draw.  Some of my best golf come from a previous pro teaching me to hit a small fade, especially in summer months.  Does seem a very simple approach though


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## hovis (Feb 7, 2021)

How much are the lessons?


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## adasko (Feb 7, 2021)

hovis said:



			How much are the lessons?
		
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400 pounds for half a day/ 3h


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## adasko (Feb 7, 2021)

He is fully booked till August. I did tried to go for a lesson last year. It was 300 for 3h, unfortunately lockdown prevent me from it. It seems since then prices went up to 400.


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## inc0gnito (Feb 7, 2021)

Rangers76 said:



			Like their natural approach but sometimes I think their on a mission to get everyone to draw the ball.
		
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I think that’s only because almost everyone who comes in suffers from a slice.
but it’s  more than getting a draw. He’s essentially teaching how to move from the ground up and to get an awareness of move your body and swing to get the shape you want.


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## inc0gnito (Feb 7, 2021)

He’s finally released his infinity board product for £250 (+£10 p&p). 

It’s a logical move but also a strange one considering the number of times he and Robin took the piss out of selling one, what is essentially a board of wood with a dowel in the middle. 

I made one out of some wood in the shed. Didn’t cost me a penny. The spinning discs can be bought on Amazon for a tenner. 

But I guess the real selling point is the exercise program you get with it. Pity you couldn’t buy that on its own.


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## eddie_1878 (Feb 7, 2021)

inc0gnito said:



			He’s finally released his infinity board product for £250 (+£10 p&p).

It’s a logical move but also a strange one considering the number of times he and Robin took the piss out of selling one, what is essentially a board of wood with a dowel in the middle.

I made one out of some wood in the shed. Didn’t cost me a penny. The spinning discs can be bought on Amazon for a tenner.

But I guess the real selling point is the exercise program you get with it. Pity you couldn’t buy that on its own.
		
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Absolute madness. Don’t begrudge anyone making a living for themselves but the markup on that is ridiculous.


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## Rangers76 (Feb 7, 2021)

Wouldn't wanna be giving this fella a dozen shots...


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## hovis (Feb 7, 2021)

adasko said:



			400 pounds for half a day/ 3h
		
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Rob Rock doesn't even charge that.  Blumin ek!!!!


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## IainP (Feb 7, 2021)

inc0gnito said:



			He’s finally released his infinity board product for £250 (+£10 p&p). 

It’s a logical move but also a strange one considering the number of times he and Robin took the piss out of selling one, what is essentially a board of wood with a dowel in the middle. 

I made one out of some wood in the shed. Didn’t cost me a penny. The spinning discs can be bought on Amazon for a tenner. 

But I guess the real selling point is the exercise program you get with it. Pity you couldn’t buy that on its own.
		
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I was toying with knocking one up also, do you recall what wood you found in the shed?


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## inc0gnito (Feb 8, 2021)

IainP said:



			I was toying with knocking one up also, do you recall what wood you found in the shed?
		
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It was a bit of mdf from a cupboard or shelf. It really doesn’t matter as long as it’s roughly shoulder width length. I had some beading which I screwed to it for the pivot.


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## bwstokie (Feb 8, 2021)

adasko said:



			He is fully booked till August. I did tried to go for a lesson last year. It was 300 for 3h, unfortunately lockdown prevent me from it. It seems since then prices went up to 400.
		
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Jesus I can’t believe how much he’s charging now!  I went up to see him December 2019 and it was £250 for the day.  Was a great experience and I did learn a lot (haven’t always been able to implement it) but I definitely have improved as a result.


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## LizAig (Feb 17, 2021)

I used to go quite regularly for a two hour lesson …. I think he was around £35 an hour then. I did a couple of golfing holidays with him as well.  Worth every penny as I dropped from 22 to 12  - nearly everything about my game changed - swing, putting and attitude!


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## eddie_1878 (Feb 17, 2021)

LizAig said:



			I used to go quite regularly for a two hour lesson …. I think he was around £35 an hour then. I did a couple of golfing holidays with him as well.  Worth every penny as I dropped from 22 to 12  - nearly everything about my game changed - swing, putting and attitude!
		
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Can’t fault your work, Marcus...just the prices! Supply and demand though eh which is fair enough! 👍🏻😉


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## hovis (Feb 17, 2021)

eddie_1878 said:



			Can’t fault your work, Marcus...just the prices! Supply and demand though eh which is fair enough! 👍🏻😉
		
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Unfortunately most people associate quality with cost when it comes to golf lessons.  The worst lessons I had was a two hour lesson for £200 which included a two weekly check in with online videos.   The best pro I've seen (and currently see) charges £35 an hour and had made more improvements to my game in 3 sessions than others have in a year


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## eddie_1878 (Feb 17, 2021)

hovis said:



			Unfortunately most people associate quality with cost when it comes to golf lessons.  The worst lessons I had was a two hour lesson for £200 which included a two weekly check in with online videos.   The best pro I've seen (and currently see) charges £35 an hour and had made more improvements to my game in 3 sessions than others have in a year
		
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I wouldn’t argue with that, very much horses for courses with lessons IMO. I have to say, in regards to ZEN golf mechanics, I haven’t seen much negative feedback. 

Given the money that can be spent on this game, £400 is a drop in the ocean if it means you can actually play it without wanting to murder somebody after 7 holes!


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## milngavie_hacker (Mar 19, 2021)

Infinity boards back at the market for £299 in U.K. and buyers getting package of online group lessons as part of the deal as well as the download video series. It’s not cheap but given what you can spend on products could be decent value if it delivers for your game the way it does in some of the videos.


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## Orikoru (Mar 19, 2021)

I watched the video where he worked with Liam from Golf Mates and the results are amazing to be honest. Although I tried watching one or two of the other Zen videos and it's very difficult to pay attention for the whole thing, I think he talks a lot of jargon and I start to get bored. Which is a shame because I love the principles and concept of what he's teaching. I totally agree that there's not so much a right and wrong way to swing a club, just needing to find the natural way that works for your body and is repeatable. If I was ever going to get a lesson I would want it to be with someone like this (not going to pay the sort of prices quoted here though).


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## Backsticks (Mar 20, 2021)

Rangers76 said:



			Wouldn't wanna be giving this fella a dozen shots...






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"Finding your own blueprint instead of someone else giving you one"
"its the mindset that allows the skillset to organise the mechanics"
"the most important shot in golf is the next one"
"making very fine adjustments, you're tweaking the dial and your tolerances are getting tighter and tighter and tigher"
"so whats going to make the biggest difference then, just getting control over the ball flight?"

I lasted 6 minutes. Boy, the cliches, waffle, and golf swingspeak diarrhia inanities. People pay for that ???


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## inc0gnito (Mar 20, 2021)

Backsticks said:



			"Finding your own blueprint instead of someone else giving you one"
"its the mindset that allows the skillset to organise the mechanics"
"the most important shot in golf is the next one"
"making very fine adjustments, you're tweaking the dial and your tolerances are getting tighter and tighter and tigher"
"so whats going to make the biggest difference then, just getting control over the ball flight?"

I lasted 6 minutes. Boy, the cliches, waffle, and golf swingspeak diarrhia inanities. People pay for that ???
		
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The results are pretty good. It starts to make sense after a while. It’s pretty simple the philosophy. It’s about getting the body to relearn movement patterns according to its own parameters, as opposed to cookie cutter approach or working on individual parts of the swing that only distract and confuse what the body wants to do naturally.


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## bwstokie (Mar 20, 2021)

Backsticks said:



			"Finding your own blueprint instead of someone else giving you one"
"its the mindset that allows the skillset to organise the mechanics"
"the most important shot in golf is the next one"
"making very fine adjustments, you're tweaking the dial and your tolerances are getting tighter and tighter and tigher"
"so whats going to make the biggest difference then, just getting control over the ball flight?"

I lasted 6 minutes. Boy, the cliches, waffle, and golf swingspeak diarrhia inanities. People pay for that ???
		
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Obviously never been at the pits of despair, on the verge of packing the game in, not being able to hit a meaningful shot.  One session with Marcus transforms the mind set and gives you the confidence and tools to never go back to that place.  You can stick your P1, P2, P3 etc technical shite right where the sun doesn’t shine 😂


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## milngavie_hacker (Mar 20, 2021)

bwstokie said:



			Obviously never been at the pits of despair, on the verge of packing the game in, not being able to hit a meaningful shot.  One session with Marcus transforms the mind set and gives you the confidence and tools to never go back to that place.  You can stick your P1, P2, P3 etc technical shite right where the sun doesn’t shine 😂
		
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You had a lesson with him? I’m very tempted to buy board and get virtual group lessons.


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## bwstokie (Mar 20, 2021)

milngavie_hacker said:



			You had a lesson with him? I’m very tempted to buy board and get virtual group lessons.
		
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Yep, certainly did.  I’ve got the board and accessories and whilst it is expensive I personally think it’s worth it when coupled with the video support.  Many may disagree and the methodology won’t suit everyone but for me personally the clear mind/minimal swing thoughts works for me!


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (May 1, 2021)

Whilst the results displayed on YouTube can’t be argued with I must agree with what is been said about the lessons been mainly focused on hitting a draw no matter what. Having been for a lesson myself I came away very disappointed and felt my questions weren’t listed to let alone answered & it created more problems in my game. Also, perhaps if “elite” golfer lessons were published it would give a better insight.
I find it quite ironic and hypocritical that Marcus and Robin in the past were very anti training aids and now apparently his GRF board has reinvented the wheel, despite their been quite a few quality issues with magnets shearing off etc. On some of their more recent YouTube videos it doesn’t look good where they are disrespecting other golf pros, no matter what Robin and Marcus’s opinion are of them airing it in a public platform doesn’t look good.


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## inc0gnito (May 1, 2021)

So we won’t be expecting to see your lesson to make it onto YouTube then? 

Shame your lesson didn’t go well. Can you pinpoint what it was that went wrong? Did you get on board with his philosophy? Or were you after something different?

I agree on the GRF board thing. I said it here before that it was a bit hypocritical that they slagged off the monetising of a wooden board then they went ahead and monetised it! The last half dozen videos and live sessions have felt like sales pitches.


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## SJ7 (Jun 12, 2021)

New here but came across this thread, 

I bought the board and I haven't had much time to play about with it but when I did initially get on it with the disc and swung a few swings on it and then got off it I got a massive different feeling. 

I see a few talking about he only teaches a draw type swing... I'm pretty he is teaching in terms of you can change your path however you want so if you want a fade you can just freely change your swing path. Everything else stays the same in the sense of weight shift. He does have a couple of snippets within his videos that show this.

Whilst I do agree with you the price is pretty insane but if it's good it's good, If your game changers around because of the lessons or board then it's a no brainer it just comes down to whether you think it's value or not. Also along with the board you get like a 2 hour video giving you instructions on how to use it properly.

I assume most people want to improve in golf but won't invest in themselves and buy training aids or lessons and even then actually practise what they have learned (I'm guilty of this).


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## SJ7 (Jun 12, 2021)

What I will actually say is you can obviously learn this without the board or his lessons. I think there is enough content on his youtube channel.


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## Moff (Jun 19, 2021)

@SJ7 how long from ordering the board did it take to arrive mate?


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## milngavie_hacker (Jun 19, 2021)

Moff said:



@SJ7 how long from ordering the board did it take to arrive mate?
		
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Mine took about six weeks. But that was back in March and arrived end of April.


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## Notleadingbythree (Jul 18, 2021)

I had lesson pre lock down,which I  enjoyed. £180=3 hours (now £400)
..
He seems a nice bloke.
However the emphasis is/was finding your natural swing,by body movement....there was zero input on stance,posture,etc. By the end of the lesson I could draw,fade etc but I think there is an emphasis  on  the draw.
I bought the grf board and have hardly used it...

It's massively overpriced with video support via an app.
I think his current lesson prices are prohibitive but probably driven by market demand and I've gone back to someone more local to me and miles cheaper.
Straight away my stance/posture has improved as has my take away(parallel).... leading to more consistent shots.
I think there's some useful stuff with the zen stuff ,yet others seem.to think it's the best thing since sliced bread...however I'm not totally convinced but he offers something different I suppose so best of luck to him.


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## hovis (Jul 18, 2021)

I can't believe the money he charges and I can't believe people are paying it.  I bet he laughs out loud when he checks his bank account.   Do people know for that money you can hire Rob Rock?


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## Notleadingbythree (Jul 18, 2021)

hovis said:



			I can't believe the money he charges and I can't believe people are paying it.  I bet he laughs out loud when he checks his bank account.   Do people know for that money you can hire Rob Rock?
		
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Yes his prices have rocketed but he's got people who follow Golf mates on it since he posted a video with him,which perhaps provides some perspective on who follows him.
He's fully booked up for months by the way!😅


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## Liverpoolphil (Jul 18, 2021)

Notleadingbythree said:



			I had lesson pre lock down,which I  enjoyed. £180=3 hours (now £400)
..
He seems a nice bloke.
However the emphasis is/was finding your natural swing,by body movement....there was zero input on stance,posture,etc. By the end of the lesson I could draw,fade etc but I think there is an emphasis  on  the draw.
I bought the grf board and have hardly used it...

It's massively overpriced with video support via an app.
I think his current lesson prices are prohibitive but probably driven by market demand and I've gone back to someone more local to me and miles cheaper.
Straight away my stance/posture has improved as has my take away(parallel).... leading to more consistent shots.
I think there's some useful stuff with the zen stuff ,yet others seem.to think it's the best thing since sliced bread...however I'm not totally convinced but he offers something different I suppose so best of luck to him.
		
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How much !! £400 for 3 hours golf lessons !! How they heck pays that level of money


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## stevench (Jul 18, 2021)

Had a couple of lessons with him back in the day when it was about £30. Great guy but the philosophy didn't quite gel with me at the time.
To be fair I wanted to go back for a couple of lessons until I saw how much he is charging now


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## SJ7 (Jul 28, 2021)

Moff said:



@SJ7 how long from ordering the board did it take to arrive mate?
		
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Sorry I missed this but like some else said it took about 6 weeks. I’ve actually put mine up for sell now just because I just don’t really have the time to practice all that much and the nearest range near me is like a hour away. Well my local has one but it’s a shambles.(  Mod Edit This is not the place to advertise stuff for sale elsewhere)


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## bwstokie (Jul 29, 2021)

SJ7 said:



			Sorry I missed this but like some else said it took about 6 weeks. I’ve actually put mine up for sell now just because I just don’t really have the time to practice all that much and the nearest range near me is like a hour away. Well my local has one but it’s a shambles.(  Mod Edit This is not the place to advertise stuff for sale elsewhere)
		
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I’m the same with my “system” - especially given the time of year I’d just prefer to get on the course.  Handicap has come tumbling down and I do occasionally get the board out if I’ve had a round when my timing has been off, it’s excellent for that, but I probably wouldn’t have bought it in hindsight.  Think the biggest thing for me has always been minimal swing thoughts and get rid of tension.  I’ve been to see Marcus when he charged c£150 for 3 hours, think I’d struggle to pay £400.


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## Bobby19 (Jul 29, 2021)

Feel like it’s all too expensive - was just wondering if someone has put together there own version & which spinning discs did they buy ?


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## IainP (Jul 29, 2021)

Bobby19 said:



			Feel like it’s all too expensive - was just wondering if someone has put together there own version & which spinning discs did they buy ?
		
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If you watch some early videos you'll see a more DIY version. You can spot the discs on Amazon etc


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## Bobby19 (Jul 29, 2021)

IainP said:



			If you watch some early videos you'll see a more DIY version. You can spot the discs on Amazon etc[/QUOTE

Thanks Iain
		
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## inc0gnito (Jul 30, 2021)

Bobby19 said:



			Feel like it’s all too expensive - was just wondering if someone has put together there own version & which spinning discs did they buy ?
		
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I bought discs from Amazon. They were about £6 each iirc. I made the balance board myself out of some wood lying around. Haven’t put them together but there is a video on YouTube of someone who did.


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## Bobby19 (Jul 30, 2021)

inc0gnito said:



			I bought discs from Amazon. They were about £6 each iirc. I made the balance board myself out of some wood lying around. Haven’t put them together but there is a video on YouTube of someone who did.
		
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thank you


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## Notleadingbythree (Feb 8, 2022)

They have a members group on fb and it's now more or less been taken over by some knob who does a load of filming for them and likes to post how far he hits it at the range,followed by others.....
All very predictable, sadly...


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## Yorks golfer (Jul 24, 2022)

Notleadingbythree said:



			They have a members group on fb and it's now more or less been taken over by some knob who does a load of filming for them and likes to post how far he hits it at the range,followed by others.....
All very predictable, sadly...
		
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## Yorks golfer (Jul 24, 2022)

I recently enquired to find out what the content was for a £500 3 hour lesson, I didn’t really gain any insight into the lesson from the explanation. I don’t like the arrogance shown by them towards other coaching techniques, if they are that good then why do that??
I don’t mind anyone making money but £500 for 3 hours and then getting you to buy a piece of wood for £299 ??


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## Notleadingbythree (Aug 24, 2022)

Yorks golfer said:



			I recently enquired to find out what the content was for a £500 3 hour lesson, I didn’t really gain any insight into the lesson from the explanation. I don’t like the arrogance shown by them towards other coaching techniques, if they are that good then why do that??
I don’t mind anyone making money but £500 for 3 hours and then getting you to buy a piece of wood for £299 ??
		
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## Notleadingbythree (Aug 24, 2022)

They're advertising a trip to the Belfry currently. 
I think you have enquire to find out the cost.
I hate to think what it is.....


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## Bobthesock (Aug 24, 2022)

As they say a fool and his money are easily parted. I used to like the videos as well. Has anyone heard of anyone visiting these guys and having a huge improvement? Like say 14 handicap to 3?


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## Yorks golfer (Aug 24, 2022)

Bobthesock said:



			As they say a fool and his money are easily parted. I used to like the videos as well. Has anyone heard of anyone visiting these guys and having a huge improvement? Like say 14 handicap to 3?
		
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Everyone gets the same lesson and they come across very arrogant and condescending


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## Bobthesock (Aug 24, 2022)

Yorks golfer said:



			Everyone gets the same lesson and they come across very arrogant and condescending
		
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Why not watch on YouTube then?


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## stevench (Aug 24, 2022)

Marcus was a great coach for me when it used to be £25-£30 a lesson.
I just can't even begin to fathom what's happened that he can now charge these sort of prices but at the end of the day someone's paying it otherwise it wouldn't be that price.


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## RRidges (Aug 24, 2022)

Backsticks said:



			"Finding your own blueprint instead of someone else giving you one"
"its the mindset that allows the skillset to organise the mechanics"
"the most important shot in golf is the next one"
"making very fine adjustments, you're tweaking the dial and your tolerances are getting tighter and tighter and tigher"
"so whats going to make the biggest difference then, just getting control over the ball flight?"

I lasted 6 minutes. Boy, the cliches, waffle, and golf swingspeak diarrhia inanities. People pay for that ???
		
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Certainly lots of drivelish waffle. But if the effect is to clear the mind of previous conceptions - and it works - then it's fine by me. I'll still simply go for the basic approach of a LM, maybe with some tools such as the hula hoop, as I an understand the effects of those numbers and the demonstrated flight.


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## bwstokie (Aug 25, 2022)

“Limited to 12 places and a cost of £2,499”
that’s got to be a P take surely!


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## Newtonuti (Aug 25, 2022)

bwstokie said:



			“Limited to 12 places and a cost of £2,499”
that’s got to be a P take surely!
		
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Totally believable for them.

My brother in law wanted to start playing golf again, and raved about Zen, until he saw the price that was  I'm not entirely sure it'd be my thing, I'm a bit of a geek and like a scientific approach to things.


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## Depreston (Aug 25, 2022)

The earlier video lessons were great a lot of the waffle edited out but the latest content switches me right off 

still some interesting concepts and i'd be more inclined to try out this method of coaching than a pro who wants me to hit positions in a takeaway or backswing etc


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## hovis (Aug 25, 2022)

bwstokie said:



			“Limited to 12 places and a cost of £2,499”
that’s got to be a P take surely!
		
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Has to be a joke.   You could have a lesson package in dubai for that


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## Yorks golfer (Aug 25, 2022)

hovis said:



			Has to be a joke.   You could have a lesson package in dubai for that
		
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To be honest it makes you wonder how many people are involved in this business and if it’s just the coach and the video guy then ching ching!!
To charge someone £500 for a lesson but then give the same lines and lesson to everyone is taking the P!!


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## Orikoru (Aug 25, 2022)

How bad would your game have to be to even possibly see £2500 worth of improvement? I'd be wanting a lot more than marginal gains for that.


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## Pin-seeker (Aug 25, 2022)

I can’t help but think of David Brent when I  hear him talk.
Good luck to him if he can charge that.
I wouldn’t pay him £50 for a lesson.


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## Depreston (Sep 12, 2022)

Ah see i've been pulled back in with the last few videos 

but my god he loves the sound of his own voice but i think the drills he's been using are very interesting


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## hovis (Sep 12, 2022)

Depreston said:



			Ah see i've been pulled back in with the last few videos 

but my god he loves the sound of his own voice but i think the drills he's been using are very interesting
		
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He literally gives the same lesson to everyone.  And what idiot buys that board at that price 🤣


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## Depreston (Sep 12, 2022)

hovis said:



			He literally gives the same lesson to everyone.  And what idiot buys that board at that price 🤣
		
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ah the pricing is ridiculous!!! for lessons at 500 quid a pop it's firmly in the i'll go if i win the euro millions pot 

yeah it does feel like the lessons are very similar but then again mid to high handicappers have a lot of similar issues they all basically struggle with Low point control, clubface control and path


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## sjw (Sep 12, 2022)

Depreston said:



			ah the pricing is ridiculous!!! for lessons at 500 quid a pop it's firmly in the i'll go if i win the euro millions pot 

yeah it does feel like the lessons are very similar but then again mid to high handicappers have a lot of similar issues they all basically struggle with Low point control, clubface control and path
		
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There's a big difference between the lessons being similar, and pretending to listen to the golfer and then saying "try this" and launching into your same spiel


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## Depreston (Sep 12, 2022)

sjw said:



			There's a big difference between the lessons being similar, and pretending to listen to the golfer and then saying "try this" and launching into your same spiel
		
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tbf a lot of amateur golfers haven't got a clue about what their true swing problems are


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Sep 12, 2022)

Bobthesock said:



			As they say a fool and his money are easily parted. I used to like the videos as well. Has anyone heard of anyone visiting these guys and having a huge improvement? Like say 14 handicap to 3?
		
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I know of 2 low h’cap players who’s been to him and said it was most unprofessional experience they’ve encountered and couldn’t actually wait to leave/for the lesson to end. Apparently the guy who did his camera/video work is now coaching!!! & the other guy who has been on couple of videos where him and Bell take the pi$$ out of traditional coaching methods  and now does his videos is the most unprofessional individual they’ve ever come across.


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## hovis (Sep 12, 2022)

shaw_SHANK redemption said:



			I know of 2 low h’cap players who’s been to him and said it was most unprofessional experience they’ve encountered and couldn’t actually wait to leave/for the lesson to end. Apparently the guy who did his camera/video work is now coaching!!! & the other guy who has been on couple of videos where him and Bell take the pi$$ out of traditional coaching methods  and now does his videos is the most unprofessional individual they’ve ever come across.
		
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I can't believe people pay the money.  As for £2500 for the two day residential!!!!!!!

I'm in the wrong business.  He must literally be laughing out loud


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Sep 13, 2022)

hovis said:



			I can't believe people pay the money.  As for £2500 for the two day residential!!!!!!!

I'm in the wrong business.  He must literally be laughing out loud







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Think the term “snake oil salesman” sums him/them up perfectly


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## bwstokie (Oct 10, 2022)

The latest “trip” is 5 nights in Turkey £3599 (excluding flights) - good god almighty!!!
😮 😮 😮


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Oct 11, 2022)

bwstokie said:



			The latest “trip” is 5 nights in Turkey £3599 (excluding flights) - good god almighty!!!
😮 😮 😮
		
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A fool and their money as they say.
Had the unfortunate pleasure of been at the same driving range as who does his social media/videoing. The guy who reckons he hits it 310+, maybe 310+ left!


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## Slw87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Having had a lesson with zen a few years ago, it was not the transformational fix for my golf swing that I would have hoped. In fact my golf suffered for months while I persevered with the zen philosophy. They dont believe in traditional fundamentals, takeway etc, just swing the club and feel the arc and your body will create the shot. Be very careful, im only now rebuilding my swing from it.

I would say, if you are an absolute beginner just trying to get the ball in the air or a scratch or better player with sound fundamentals, just trying to improve weight transfer then zen might be beneficial, but low to mid handicappers I would say beware.


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## Orikoru (Oct 20, 2022)

Is Robin still on the Zen videos? I saw this thread pop up again, just checked and seen that RMW has deleted his own YouTube channel.


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Oct 20, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Is Robin still on the Zen videos? I saw this thread pop up again, just checked and seen that RMW has deleted his own YouTube channel.
		
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Don’t think so, he’s not on their website also from when he was down as one of their “coaches”, apparently they’ve now got one of the cameramen coaching also.


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## Backsticks (Oct 20, 2022)

Pin-seeker said:



			I can’t help but think of David Brent when I  hear him talk.
Good luck to him if he can charge that.
I wouldn’t pay him £50 for a lesson.
		
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He is just an endless chain of golf swing cliché tips. 

Time will tell whether there is real substance to it, but the likes of Dr Kwon, have shown up this type of matey patter that used to pass for golf coaching for the nonsense it is. Can any coach make a difference of more than a stroke or two to someones game is still an open question.


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## Slw87 (Oct 21, 2022)

Just swinging the club with no emphasis on fundamentals is a black hole you really don’t want to go down. I’ve spent the last year fighting a destructive pull hook. The main cause a inside takeaway, seemingly one of the most disastrous swing flaws that according to zen doesn’t matter, ”just feel that in to out swing” 

im sure the philosophy will work for some, but it is not the simple fix that some of the online material points to.


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Oct 21, 2022)

Slw87 said:



			Just swinging the club with no emphasis on fundamentals is a black hole you really don’t want to go down. I’ve spent the last year fighting a destructive pull hook. The main cause a inside takeaway, seemingly one of the most disastrous swing flaws that according to zen doesn’t matter, ”just feel that in to out swing”

im sure the philosophy will work for some, but it is not the simple fix that some of the online material points to.
		
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Couldn’t agree with you more, they weren’t interested at all with what was causing me issues and it actually exasperated my inside takeaway even more causing more issues after I left. They have to expect if and it’s a big if, they have elite/scratch level golfers going to see them, then a scratch golfer is more than likely to want to deal fundamentals etc.
The swing path more left is a dangerous quick fix that they are charging a hell of a lot of money for


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## MACM85 (Oct 21, 2022)

I have watched a few Zen videos and feel that Marcus just talks jibberish. Yeh the results might be evident in the video but that is after a few hours of constant work from the individual. When they go to the local range the next day or on the course the following week will they remember exactly what they felt after 3hrs of intensive "coaching". Probably not. This will just lead to more errors and issues. 

One of the videos the other day the lad in the lesson thanked him for the session and commented after the session he has had his longest drive ever at 350+ this chap was in his 60's and didn't look like he was bombing whatever iron he was practicing with.


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## Slw87 (Oct 21, 2022)

shaw_SHANK redemption said:



			Couldn’t agree with you more, they weren’t interested at all with what was causing me issues and it actually exasperated my inside takeaway even more causing more issues after I left. They have to expect if and it’s a big if, they have elite/scratch level golfers going to see them, then a scratch golfer is more than likely to want to deal fundamentals etc.
The swing path more left is a dangerous quick fix that they are charging a hell of a lot of money for
		
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i think they are on to something with improving weight transfer but just achieving an extra 20yds distance at the expense of any consistency is only going to push your handicap one way.


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Oct 21, 2022)

Slw87 said:



			i think they are on to something with improving weight transfer but just achieving an extra 20yds distance at the expense of any consistency is only going to push your handicap one way.
		
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What they seem to think is that they’ve invented the whole new ground force/weight transfer drills etc, they’ve been around for ever and far more competent and professional coaches out there coaching it who also look at the fundamentals etc - it’s just a money grab that they are continuing to get more and more greedy with


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## Slw87 (Oct 21, 2022)

shaw_SHANK redemption said:



			What they seem to think is that they’ve invented the whole new ground force/weight transfer drills etc, they’ve been around for ever and far more competent and professional coaches out there coaching it who also look at the fundamentals etc - it’s just a money grab that they are continuing to get more and more greedy with
		
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Yeah, I got hooked in with the videos, even considered buying the yo-yo board before the lesson!  

Given me a new appreciation of quality pga professionals, there’s also plenty of more conventional teaching pros that are distinctly average but some awesome ones out there.


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## hovis (Oct 21, 2022)

I can't quite put my finger on why I dislike him so much.  I don't like the idea that he targets golfers that are frustrated with their golf and lack of progression and then offers them the fix but at an ass raping price.   That board that he sells for £200/300 must cost a fraction of that.  

I want to hear from someone that's had genuine long term results from his teachings


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## adasko (Oct 21, 2022)

What annoyed me with them is at the beginning they were laughing of other coaches for using any types of training aids.
Now they flogging their board for a lot of money calling it the next best thing since slice bread.
I did thought about having a lesson with him at the very beginning of his online presence but now he come across as arrogant who knows everything.


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## Slw87 (Oct 21, 2022)

adasko said:



			What annoyed me with them is at the beginning they were laughing of other coaches for using any types of training aids.
Now they flogging their board for a lot of money calling it the next best thing since slice bread.
I did thought about having a lesson with him at the very beginning of his online presence but now he come across as arrogant who knows everything.
		
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i made my own board with from ply, probably cost £5. I think Danny Maude did a video with a homemade board


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Oct 21, 2022)

hovis said:



			I can't quite put my finger on why I dislike him so much.  I don't like the idea that he targets golfers that are frustrated with their golf and lack of progression and then offers them the fix but at an ass raping price.   That board that he sells for £200/300 must cost a fraction of that. 

I want to hear from someone that's had genuine long term results from his teachings
		
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They’ll need deep pockets to pay his prices if they plan on using him as their coach for long term results


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## shaw_SHANK redemption (Oct 21, 2022)

adasko said:



			What annoyed me with them is at the beginning they were laughing of other coaches for using any types of training aids.
Now they flogging their board for a lot of money calling it the next best thing since slice bread.
I did thought about having a lesson with him at the very beginning of his online presence but now he come across as arrogant who knows everything.
		
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It’s like his trips away sales pitch saying you get to spend time with their tour pros, making it sound as though they’re currently on tour etc - not for one minute smashing one of them didn’t play on the European tour for a bit but the other one has only played on mini tours and mainly now is playing regional pga events.


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## Slw87 (Nov 11, 2022)

The current Zen Belfry shindig is the best deal since Mark Crossfields £2k “The Journey”


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## Barking_Mad (Nov 11, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Is Robin still on the Zen videos? I saw this thread pop up again, just checked and seen that RMW has deleted his own YouTube channel.
		
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He made a reappearance earlier this year, or was it last? He seemed to have taken a coaching course in Zen. Since then he seems to have vanished again.

Edit: it was October 21.


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## Notleadingbythree (Dec 7, 2022)

Orikoru said:



			Is Robin still on the Zen videos? I saw this thread pop up again, just checked and seen that RMW has deleted his own YouTube channel.
		
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He appears to have disappeared completely...


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## Notleadingbythree (Dec 7, 2022)

Slw87 said:



			i made my own board with from ply, probably cost £5. I think Danny Maude did a video with a homemade board
		
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They don't like Danny Maude ,his followers regularly mock him.
Whilst I think he comes over really well.


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## Notleadingbythree (Dec 7, 2022)

The latest offer, and without flights!
I reckon the filming guy gets a free holiday out of this!

Hi guys, 

Hope you're well. 

I'm very excited to share with you the details of our next trip in January to Abu Dhabi. 

Here's a full breakdown and costs for what will be an amazing coaching trip at an unbelievable venue.

Abu Dhabi National Zen Experience 
30th January- 4th February 
5 nights half board at Westin
5 lunches included 
Dinner included but not drinks
Airport transfers included 
26 hours coaching 
3 x 9 holes 
£4999 + flights 

Limited spots available so first come first served

Book on to the trip at: Zen@golftravelhub.co.uk 

Here's what you will experience on this trip.

On your first day we will provide a unique 6 hour, fully immersive, coaching experience with the whole team to give you a personal blueprint for development over the 4 days. This initial session will give everyone a detailed understanding of your movement capabilities and how you apply them to your swing. Using this information, we can explain the foundations of your new blueprint going forward.

There will be 17 hours of intensive, personalised training over the week, plus a unique 27 hole (3x 9 hole), on course experience detailing how to take your own blueprint on to the golf course. This will entail 9 extra hours of training that involves all aspects of performance on the course from the mental side, short game, green reading, putting and long game! In total that’s 26 hours of training - 17 hours of academy training plus a further 9 hours of on course training.

Each evening, over dinner, you will have the opportunity to run through what you have both learnt and achieved throughout the day with Marcus and the team. This will give you the chance to revisit the day in a relaxed and informal environment, allowing you to ask the team any questions you may have and fully dissect what was covered in the daytime.

This detailed programme has been specifically designed for people that are serious about improving their own knowledge and to give a unique blueprint for improvement going forward.

Please contact GolfTravelHub asap to book on 👍

Hope to see you there.

Cheers,

Marcus 👍


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## Notleadingbythree (Dec 7, 2022)

Another interesting thing
Is that Liam from Golf mates went to him I think sometime last year..
Best thing since sliced bread etc...
It couldn't have worked because......
Then this summer he was with Danny Maude who basically corrected his slice!


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## Slw87 (Dec 7, 2022)

James Wiltshire also did, im not sure he has mentioned it once since going. Didn’t seem massively impressed.


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## Slw87 (Dec 7, 2022)

Notleadingbythree said:



			They don't like Danny Maude ,his followers regularly mock him.
Whilst I think he comes over really well.
		
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him and Chris Ryan are probably the best for simple, well explained instruction. No BS and magic wands


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