# Chipping\Pitching onto Green



## KhalJimbo (May 18, 2015)

Hi All, 

So I am seeing a bit of a problem here. I am new to the game and when in close proximity to the green (I mean just off the fringe here, about 2 - 3 yards from the fringe) I will use a little chip and run and usually am pretty accurate and will 8\10 times end up with only a 2ft putt. (For this I grip lower down on the shaft for more control, stand feet fairly close together and position the ball just behind my back foot as I was taught in a lesson)

The problem comes in when I am further away (about 15 yards +) and need to use more of a quarter to a half swing that the ball rolls far too much and almost always lands nicely on the Green then proceeds to roll off the opposite end. (for this I use my standard stance, legs slightly closer together and ball position is in the middle of my legs) 

Are there any sort of techniques that I can use to pitch\chip the ball but also to stop it from rolling so much? 

I have two wedges that I use, I PW 48Â° and a SW which is 56Â° with 10Â° bounce. 

Do I possibly need a higher lofted wedge to use from around 15 the green? Like a 60Â°?


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## bobmac (May 18, 2015)

If you have the ball behind your back foot, the ball will take off too low and run.
Try the ball position in the middle of your stance with the weight slightly on your front foot. This will present more loft at impact, therefor hitting it higher and stopping quicker


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## KhalJimbo (May 18, 2015)

bobmac said:



			If you have the ball behind your back foot, the ball will take off too low and run.
Try the ball position in the middle of your stance with the weight slightly on your front foot. This will present more loft at impact, therefor hitting it higher and stopping quicker
		
Click to expand...

When I am close to the green about 2 - 5 yards from the fringe I will use the chip and run (ball positioned behind my feet for a run). Are you suggesting that I use a quarter swing for when about 15 yards back? Normal stance etc?


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## duncan mackie (May 18, 2015)

You raise a good example which involves more than one principle...

Generally there is a simple relationship between the loft of the club used to chip and the proportion of overall distance you need to land the ball for it to roll out to the hole. Whilst the speed of the green will affect the actual requirements (and any slopes etc) the interrelationship between them stays fairly constant eg 8 iron 25% PW 50% SW 60%.

When you run out of green with you most lofted club (using the above that would be something like a 20 yd shot with only 5 yds between the fringe and flag so that the extreme edge of the green represents 75%) you have to either increase the effective loft of the club or influence the roll out of the shot ie add spin. Different green surfaces will respond/react differently to the various alternatives and different lies will influence the choice too.

As to how to actually impart spin....short answer is a greasiness clean contact between Clubhead and ball - someone will be along with the full answers!


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## bobmac (May 18, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			When I am close to the green about 2 - 5 yards from the fringe I will use the chip and run (ball positioned behind my feet for a run). Are you suggesting that I use a quarter swing for when about 15 yards back? Normal stance etc?
		
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Try it and see.
Some people even play it off their front foot


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## One Planer (May 18, 2015)

bobmac said:



			Try it and see.
*Some people even play it off their front foot*

Click to expand...

This was something my pro was working on with me over last winter, but I'll admit to it being very hit and miss for me.

For the shot described in the OP I usually play the ball in centre stance and make a centred turn.

I never felt comfortable playing the ball that far forward.


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## ScienceBoy (May 18, 2015)

For chipping I am very much off the back foot. I have to use my 52 or PW as my 56 stops too quickly.

I get my spin from hiting down on the ball, I have absolutely no lower body movement (that's the aim anyway) and my weight mostly on my lead foot. 

My address puts my hands almost resting on my lead knee. I've never chipped better or with so much spin. The ball does not come out too low either as I hit down.

The key for spin is to grip lightly, any tension in the body kills spin.

Pitching is in the middle, hip and shoulder rotation in sync with a full follow through. Again light grip for spin


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## GeneralStore (May 18, 2015)

Interesting thread. I have had lessons and read various things, but the bottom line is its only when you go onto the chipping green and experiment (under self-imposed pressure) that you can figure out what technique works for you. As has been described above, its either trajectory or spin that is going to the get the job done. Trajectory is usually high risk in my opinion. 

The flop can end up very badly and is not something to be attempted unless you have no other choice. For spin you need great contact, accelaration through the ball and a good quality ball as a starting point. As mentioned, I wouldnt recommend playing the ball too far back, it helps with the strike, but takes away your loft.


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## pokerjoke (May 18, 2015)

You don't really need a 60 degree your 56 has plenty of loft.
The great thing about chipping there are so many variables and all of the above
are right but right for that person.
You just need to practice a lot and try different things.
I have just come back from are grass range and I was there for 2 1/2 hours
using every club from my 7 iron to my 58 degree wedge.
I have 40 balls and I must have emptied the bag 6 times.
Im always trying different things and a lot is trial and error,the great thing about
doing this is you also learn what not to do.
One thing I have learnt to deaden the blow is to hit it off the toe,it works for me
but you need to learn whats best for you.
Also do you use a premium ball?


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## HomerJSimpson (May 18, 2015)

Great practice drill is to put a towel on the practice green about 5-10 yards on and rather than hit to a hole use different clubs and try and land it on the towel and then watch how far out each club runs out. It gets you use to picking and hitting a landing zone and gives you a great idea which club will work best depending on how far you have. That way you can play one shot with different clubs and keep it simple


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## MadAdey (May 19, 2015)

KhalJimbo said:



			Are there any sort of techniques that I can use to pitch\chip the ball but also to stop it from rolling so much? 

I have two wedges that I use, I PW 48Â° and a SW which is 56Â° with 10Â° bounce. 

Do I possibly need a higher lofted wedge to use from around 15 the green? Like a 60Â°?
		
Click to expand...

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is to think that more loft will help sort out problems like your own. 

What you need to do is get a lesson and learn how to hit down onto the ball and generate spin. 

I play these shots in this way, I hope this might help you:

1) Slightly open your stance and put your weight onto your front foot.
2) Pu the ball in the middle of your stance and keep your hands infront of the ball through the swing. 
3) Strike down onto the ball, do not use a putting style swing.
4) I practice this on the driving range off the mat, not a nice a nice fluffy lie on the practice green. I find this has produced a sound technique that works from all lies.

BTW I use my 50* wedge for these shots. I don't know how text book this style is. I find it works really well, the ball tends to land, take a small bounce then checks up and gently rolls out.


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## Rooter (May 19, 2015)

As per Bob's suggestion of ball position, I had a lesson last week, my pro gave me 3 ball positions for different outcomes. Back foot is a low runner, middle stance is a "normal" shot and front foot is a high one. personally i had to focus on keeping my weight on the left side more, also be aware that hand positions change slightly to keep the loft of the club working correctly.

Really was a lightbulb for me, i was getting far too wristy with them!!


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## garyinderry (May 19, 2015)

I wouldn't recommend you try to play these chips from 15 yards from the green with a load of spin.   to create spin you need great contact and speed.  You risk zooming these shots thought the green even more than you already do.  Forget about that for the mean time.  As the greens dry put even more over summer it becomes harder and harder to play these wee spinners. Great fun to play but most of the time not safest way to play the shot.

The 56 you have is perfect to pop the ball into the air and let it land softly and roll out a bit.  To get the ball into the air there is a little trick you can do to ensure contact and get the club to slip in under the ball.  Let the wedge and hoe it is designed do the work for you.  You don't have to help the ball up.  Phil Mickelson did this on his DVD and I've been using it ever since. 

Open the clubface slightly and hit a touch behind the ball.  This allows the bounce to slide the club along the grass and slips the club in under the ball. It removes the difficultly of making good contact.  Works like a charm.  Ball pops up, lands softly and rolls out a little.   

Using this tip transformed my short game.   you don't need the shaft leaning too far forward.  You can do it anywhere from a touch forward to the handle leaning back.  Ball position middle or move it forward depending on hoe high you want to play it.

Hope this helps.

[video=youtube;nHkoJMGw1gM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHkoJMGw1gM[/video]


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## Foliage Finder (May 19, 2015)

One thing I've found useful with those kind of shots is to use a lower lofted club, me and my pro worked on this in my last short game lesson. So use something like a 7 iron (I even chipped with a 5 iron towards the end of the lesson without any disasters), choose a landing zone that is closer to you than the hole, one which that looks fairly flat, and give it a gentle smooth chip. Principle behind it is that it's easier to control a shot that goes 5 yards then rolls out 10 than it is to try and flop it to within a couple of yards, for which you need very good contact.


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## woody69 (May 19, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			I wouldn't recommend you try to play these chips from 15 yards from the green with a load of spin.   to create spin you need great contact and speed.  You risk zooming these shots thought the green even more than you already do.  Forget about that for the mean time.  As the greens dry put even more over summer it becomes harder and harder to play these wee spinners. Great fun to play but most of the time not safest way to play the shot.

The 56 you have is perfect to pop the ball into the air and let it land softly and roll out a bit.  To get the ball into the air there is a little trick you can do to ensure contact and *get the club to slip in under the ball*.  Let the wedge and hoe it is designed do the work for you.  You don't have to help the ball up.  Phil Mickelson did this on his DVD and I've been using it ever since. 

Open the clubface slightly and hit a touch behind the ball.  This allows the bounce to slide the club along the grass and slips the club in under the ball. It removes the difficultly of making good contact.  Works like a charm.  Ball pops up, lands softly and rolls out a little.   

Using this tip transformed my short game.   you don't need the shaft leaning too far forward.  You can do it anywhere from a touch forward to the handle leaning back.  Ball position middle or move it forward depending on hoe high you want to play it.

Hope this helps.

[video=youtube;nHkoJMGw1gM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHkoJMGw1gM[/video]
		
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That sounds incredibly risky to me. I can just see the club bouncing up and me thinning it. You have to be on a pretty springy nice lie to pull that off IMHO?


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## Maninblack4612 (May 19, 2015)

GeneralStore said:



			The flop can end up very badly and is not something to be attempted unless you have no other choice. For spin you need great contact, accelaration through the ball and a good quality ball as a starting point. As mentioned, I wouldnt recommend playing the ball too far back,* it helps with the strike*, but takes away your loft.
		
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Not according to short game genius, Stan Utley, who nobody but me seems have heard of. He says playing the ball back in the stance requires a more precise strike & moving the ball forward & hitting it with some pivot flattens the arc & leaves a bigger margin for error. His books have helped me a lot. 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_8iilk6y1mu_b


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## garyinderry (May 19, 2015)

I've just shown you how it works.  I've intentionally gone way too far hitting behind it and it still works.  

That is how the bounce is designed to work.  It slides the club the grass.  None of those balls are perched up on grass. It's quite tightly mown. 

Give it a whirl.  In time you learn how to set up to different lies and ground conditions.  Sure there are lies where you can't open the blade too much. 

Even off the barest of lies I let the bounce do its thing and slip the club in under the ball. 

Oh ye of little faith.  Go try it


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## garyinderry (May 19, 2015)

Ball back has its merits.  To can play it lower, strike down on it etc but it also opens up the possibility of sticking the leading edge in the ground if you catch it fat. With the ball back and handle forward you reduce the effective bounce  on the club. 

With the handle back and ball forward you can play higher shots but also raise the leading edge and bring bladed shots into play.

You need to practice these shots and develop an understanding how the lie and ground conditions will affect the shot.


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## chrisd (May 19, 2015)

At Kings of Distance a couple of weeks back the pro showed us chipping with the heel of the club off the ground and using the toe end of the club. I got on well with it there and have now hit about 40 chips in games using the method, I have canned a few but not once have I duffed one like I was apt to before. I have used this method up to 30'ish yards out and doubt I'll do any other unless I'm short sided with, say, a bunker to clear when it's a 58* lob shot


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## Liverpoolphil (May 19, 2015)

pokerjoke said:



			You don't really need a 60 degree your 56 has plenty of loft.
The great thing about chipping there are so many variables and all of the above
are right but right for that person.
You just need to practice a lot and try different things.
I have just come back from are grass range and I was there for 2 1/2 hours
using every club from my 7 iron to my 58 degree wedge.
I have 40 balls and I must have emptied the bag 6 times.
Im always trying different things and a lot is trial and error,the great thing about
doing this is you also learn what not to do.
One thing I have learnt to deaden the blow is to hit it off the toe,it works for me
but you need to learn whats best for you.
Also do you use a premium ball?
		
Click to expand...

This and what Bob has said are spot on 

Trial and error is how I learned how to chip 

Moving the ball back and forward in your stance is a great way to vary the type of chip 
A tip I would give is to try the old 20 past 20 to method - clock face take club back to 20 past and then through the ball in a nice fluid swing to 20 too - for shorter chip maybe try 25 past etc


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## garyinderry (May 20, 2015)

[video=youtube;CxOoDLF7FTQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxOoDLF7FTQ[/video]


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## garyinderry (May 20, 2015)

[video=youtube;MZLuaxmT9gc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZLuaxmT9gc[/video]


tour pro hitting behind the ball.    let the club do the work. :thup:


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## Huwey12 (May 20, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			I wouldn't recommend you try to play these chips from 15 yards from the green with a load of spin.   to create spin you need great contact and speed.  You risk zooming these shots thought the green even more than you already do.  Forget about that for the mean time.  As the greens dry put even more over summer it becomes harder and harder to play these wee spinners. Great fun to play but most of the time not safest way to play the shot.

The 56 you have is perfect to pop the ball into the air and let it land softly and roll out a bit.  To get the ball into the air there is a little trick you can do to ensure contact and get the club to slip in under the ball.  Let the wedge and hoe it is designed do the work for you.  You don't have to help the ball up.  Phil Mickelson did this on his DVD and I've been using it ever since. 

Open the clubface slightly and hit a touch behind the ball.  This allows the bounce to slide the club along the grass and slips the club in under the ball. It removes the difficultly of making good contact.  Works like a charm.  Ball pops up, lands softly and rolls out a little.   

Using this tip transformed my short game.   you don't need the shaft leaning too far forward.  You can do it anywhere from a touch forward to the handle leaning back.  Ball position middle or move it forward depending on hoe high you want to play it.

Hope this helps.

[video=youtube;nHkoJMGw1gM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHkoJMGw1gM[/video]
		
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Gary. I've just been converted to the centre of stance/use the bounce technique after years of hitting off the back foot with different clubs according to the distance from the green/pin
To alter the loft I've been taught to change my grip from strong/neutral to week, with a week grip giving the most loft. Works a treat and you don't have to think about what iron/wedge to use, it's all in the grip


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## HomerJSimpson (May 20, 2015)

Big fan of the linear method of chipping which is all about using bounce. Very forgiving. Not foolproof but works well.


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## Craigg (May 20, 2015)

This method of chipping terrifies me.....think great big thin through the green. Will definitely give it a go though. Anything to try and improve. I am normally a hands forward chipper and I have to say normally pretty consistent, but I do have the odd chunk! Can it really be that simple?


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## Huwey12 (May 20, 2015)

Craigg said:



			This method of chipping terrifies me.....think great big thin through the green. Will definitely give it a go though. Anything to try and improve. I am normally a hands forward chipper and I have to say normally pretty consistent, but I do have the odd chunk! Can it really be that simple?
		
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I was the same, had visions of the leading edge sending the ball onto the next green, but it works and gives a pleasing sound as the club scrapes over the turf


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## garyinderry (May 20, 2015)

Huwey12 said:



			I was the same, had visions of the leading edge sending the ball onto the next green, but it works and gives a pleasing sound as the club scrapes over the turf
		
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Using the bounce has been in every second copy of golf monthly for the last number of years.  Still people either don't try it or are afraid of it.  Crazy.

Great string to have to your short game bow.    I once did all my chipping with the handle way forward.   now I mix it up and can play a much wider variety of shot.   quite often its a mixture of both with the handle only a fraction ahead and still letting the club slip in under the ball using the bounce.


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## virtuocity (May 21, 2015)

chrisd said:



			At Kings of Distance a couple of weeks back the pro showed us chipping with the heel of the club off the ground and using the toe end of the club. I got on well with it there and have now hit about 40 chips in games using the method, I have canned a few but not once have I duffed one like I was apt to before. I have used this method up to 30'ish yards out and doubt I'll do any other unless I'm short sided with, say, a bunker to clear when it's a 58* lob shot
		
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Got to say Chris, I used this yesterday and whilst distance was shorter (therefore, need to work on distance control), contact was very solid.  Great tip.  Here's a video to accompany it:

[video=youtube;tAkhcIRKEpE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAkhcIRKEpE[/video]


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## garyinderry (May 21, 2015)

virtuocity said:



			Got to say Chris, I used this yesterday and whilst distance was shorter (therefore, need to work on distance control), contact was very solid.  Great tip.  Here's a video to accompany it:
		
Click to expand...

[video=youtube;Gd7kRjdvVAU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd7kRjdvVAU[/video]


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## virtuocity (May 21, 2015)

:thup:


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## ScienceBoy (May 21, 2015)

I tried this and the hitting off the toe to deaden the strike. I got it working moderately well but my pro has me back to my old chipping method which is working better. I much prefer hitting out the middle of the club and lightening my grip to achieve the same end. After a lot of work I don't think I've chipped better and I am finding my 56* stops too quickly!

I think the method above is great for someone who strikes a good chip but needs something different to take their short game to the next level.

I would point golfers first to the more traditional method, then to this if they stall with their progress or need to change their action for some reason. Yet to had a pro teach this, even the most "non-traditional" ones.


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