# Par 3s... Brain v Brawn?



## JohnnyDee (Feb 17, 2015)

I'll nail my colours to the mast. 

I'm no fan of the _200 and stupid yard _par 3s that we see so many of nowadays. There are plenty of times during a round when it's necessary to open your shoulders and rip it, but for me not on a Par 3. 

I see them as a mental challenge and ideally played with a mid to short iron, and if the course designer has done their job correctly they should be no less daunting than a big ignorant slosh with the heavy artillery.

We have 4 on our home track none over 175 yards and they're all tricky for a variety of reasons

I realise of course, as with everything in life, and indeed golf, there are two sides to this coin and I'm just wondering what others think on this subject. 

.


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## adam6177 (Feb 17, 2015)

Why cant they be both?

We have a 217 yard Par 3 at my course....we also have a 120 yard par 3 and I enjoy them both equally, just means you need to be a more complete player to hit both greens.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

A par 3 doesn't have to be long to test golfers but with golfers it seems hitting the ball further then adding length to par 3's seems a common theme

Woburn for example have some small par threes which are tougher than the longer ones they have but both provide a fair challenge

Ones over 210 imo are a bit silly


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## fundy (Feb 17, 2015)

We have one at 220 yards thats not a good golf hole imo. Pretty open plays uphill and into the wind usually, in winter theres very few who can even reach. In summer they grow the rough up high on the right hand side and invariably this becomes a massive bottleneck in comps. Thankfully they had the sense to cut the rough down in club champs this year as been such a problem in prev years. The holes actually much better off the yellows at 175ish


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## Foxholer (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm with you on this one.

Though I think they should be a test of mid to long iron (something like a 3 to 5/6) that may not have been tested elsewhere on the course.

Of course, that could be 200+ for the guns of Championship Tees (6 iron 190 is pretty standard for them!)!


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 17, 2015)

I tend to agree. I was surprised playing a course last year to arrive at a 240 yard par 3 (from the red tees, mind). Couldn't even see the green so I wasn't impressed.

Walked off with a 3 though!


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## SugarPenguin (Feb 17, 2015)

I have to agree. I think everybody should be able to reach a par 3 with irons/hybrids. It kind of eradicates the point of par 3's if people are taking woods. 

For me personally my longest 4 iron goes around 210 yards. Anything over that I would have to hit my 3 wood which makes things awkward (really need a hybrid / driving iron). 

Most people probably hit their long irons 180 max so I dislike seeing anything over this range. I think they should be from 90 - 180. 

Personally par 3s that are 125 and shorter surrounded by bunkers are the most fun to play.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

Luton Hoo has a 240 par 3 - it's just a bit daft


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## patricks148 (Feb 17, 2015)

we have a mix ..ish.   one short two mid 160-180 and one long 210 off the medal tee's.

But just to show our head green keeper has a sense of humor, one par 3 on the short winter course is 275 yards


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Luton Hoo has a 240 par 3 - it's just a bit daft
		
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Wimbledon Common has one at 237 through a very tight avenue of trees and thick vegetation both sides. Not for the faint hearted and I'd always take four there and run. It has another two at over 220 yard. To be fair we have two at over two hundred (229 and 217) but both give you a bit of leeway with the fairway wood off the tee. We have two more around the 175-180 yard mark which are a stiff test but both fairly fair in their layout.

I personally have no issue about long par threes and will play them as they come. Sometimes a bogey isn't the end of the world, especially if you do get a shot and even if you don't other holes usually give you a chance to get the dropped shot back


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## garyinderry (Feb 17, 2015)

Closest to the pins are a lottery and turn into closest to the green comps. 

I am not a fan.


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## patricks148 (Feb 17, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wimbledon Common has one at 237 through a very tight avenue of trees and thick vegetation both sides. Not for the faint hearted and I'd always take four there and run. It has another two at over 220 yard. To be fair we have two at over two hundred (229 and 217) but both give you a bit of leeway with the fairway wood off the tee. We have two more around the 175-180 yard mark which are a stiff test but both fairly fair in their layout.

I personally have no issue about long par threes and will play them as they come. Sometimes a bogey isn't the end of the world, especially if you do get a shot and even if you don't other holes usually give you a chance to get the dropped shot back
		
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I think Forres has a 248 yard par 3!!


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## chrisd (Feb 17, 2015)

Ours are a mix, I managed to get on all four on Saturday in a match, some were flags near the front, I used on them A wedge, 8 iron, 6 iron and a boom with a 4 iron, so a good mix I'd say


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## evahakool (Feb 17, 2015)

Our longest par 3 is 210 which I can reach with a hybrid , dislike anything longer than this and would much rather play a shorter par 3 that with more challenges around the green.


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## fundy (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Luton Hoo has a 240 par 3 - it's just a bit daft
		
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The 13th?

Its 271 yards off the blue tees - just a joke of a par 3, not as if there is anywhere to bail really either and a pretty narrow green to boot!


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## SugarPenguin (Feb 17, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Wimbledon Common has one at 237 through a very tight avenue of trees and thick vegetation both sides. Not for the faint hearted and I'd always take four there and run. It has another two at over 220 yard. To be fair we have two at over two hundred (229 and 217) but both give you a bit of leeway with the fairway wood off the tee. We have two more around the 175-180 yard mark which are a stiff test but both fairly fair in their layout.

I personally have no issue about long par threes and will play them as they come. Sometimes a bogey isn't the end of the world, especially if you do get a shot and even if you don't other holes usually give you a chance to get the dropped shot back
		
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Madness. I bet all the short hitters take drives and still struggle to reach. I like seeing 200 yard + for the pros but for the average golfer seems a bit extreme for them to be that long !


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## Lord Tyrion (Feb 17, 2015)

SugarPenguin said:



			Most people probably hit their long irons 180 max so I dislike seeing anything over this range. I think they should be from 90 - 180. 

Personally par 3s that are 125 and shorter surrounded by bunkers are the most fun to play.
		
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Agree with the above. There are plenty of occasions on a course where people can open their shoulders and whack a golf ball. Par 3's should be a little more about finesse and accuracy. One of my favourite par 3's is at The Hirsel in Coldstream. 98yds off the whites, elevated tee, green surrounded by bunkers. Loads of fun.


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## SVB (Feb 17, 2015)

Merrick Park down in Bournemouth has a 244 yd par 3 for the 1st that plays across a valley so anything short in the summer and you watch it roll 100 yds down to the bottom.  Nasty especially as there is no driving range as such to warm up so often first shot out of the car.  Horrible!


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

fundy said:



			The 13th?

Its 271 yards off the blue tees - just a joke of a par 3, not as if there is anywhere to bail really either and a pretty narrow green to boot!
		
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The course could be really good as well but they just haven't improved it and that hole is just a joke as you say


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## Mastercracker (Feb 17, 2015)

We have a 244 yard par 3, slightly uphill. In all honesty its garbage. The landing area slopes left to right so you have to be inch perfect with (in my case) a hybrid in summer or a 3 wood in winter.

I was about 1 foot short of a hole in one on it last summer. Gutted.

The hole after it is a 287 yard par 4, downhill from an elevated tee. Take the shortcut over some trees and that green is easier to hit in 1 than the par 3 before it!


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

Just playing devil's advocate...

Anyone who has to hit 'heavy artillery' (I'm assuming that means driver or 3 wood) on a par 3 is likely to be getting a shot on it.

If the 'brain' approach is better than the 'brawn' one surely they'll use their shot wisely and put the driver back in the bag?


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## jamielaing (Feb 17, 2015)

Our course has 4 par 3s. The 1st hole is 170 yards and is a testing first hit. The 11th is 150 yards downhill and can be a challenge with a short iron. The other two are just horrendous. 225 yards into the wind and 230 yards up hill. I am a big hitter but have just bought a hybrid purely to deal with these two holes when the wind is playing up. I don't want to play target golf where they are all 110-150 yards but the course is full of opportunities to muscle up, par 3s are about playing clever, not big hitting.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Just playing devil's advocate...

Anyone who has to hit 'heavy artillery' (I'm assuming that means driver or 3 wood) on a par 3 is likely to be getting a shot on it.

If the 'brain' approach is better than the 'brawn' one surely they'll use their shot wisely and put the driver back in the bag?
		
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The 240 yard par 3 I mentioned is SI 16 (just checked). SI doesn't relate to difficulty.


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			The 240 yard par 3 I mentioned is SI 16 (just checked). SI doesn't relate to difficulty.
		
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I was just trying to put an opposing view forward, maybe badly.

I think people put too much emphasis on 'par'.
240 to go on a par 5 with trouble around the green and they'll lay up and leave themselves an easy pitch.
Same shot on a par 3 and they feel they have to try to get on the green.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Just playing devil's advocate...

Anyone who has to hit 'heavy artillery' (I'm assuming that means driver or 3 wood) on a par 3 is likely to be getting a shot on it.

If the 'brain' approach is better than the 'brawn' one surely they'll use their shot wisely and put the driver back in the bag?
		
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SI doesn't really or shouldn't be configured to match difficulty - your par 3's should be mid to high

If the starting hole then it shouldn't be any lower than SI9


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## Imurg (Feb 17, 2015)

We have one longish one. 208 on the card but can play up to about 220 with the tee at the back and then pin at the back too.
Prevailing wind goes right to left but sometimes its right into your face.
Slightly downhill, I have been known to drop a 6 iron short in summer and let it run on and I've hit 5 wood in winter. Often the safest play is to drop short. There's mounding all around the green but a nice flat run up from the front that leaves a fairly straightforward chip. Go for it and miss left or right and you'll do well to get up and down.
SI 7 so I get a shot too. 
Strangely, since I went up to 7 and started getting a shot on it I've taken 3 more often than not...


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## scottbrown (Feb 17, 2015)

Our longest is 205 si16. 
I like it, it's a good 3/4 iron in the winter and 5 sometimes 6 in the summer. 

Our other 2 are both 150/160 but have far more hazards so a good mix. 

Take a 3 and run though


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## Billysboots (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Just playing devil's advocate...

Anyone who has to hit 'heavy artillery' (I'm assuming that means driver or 3 wood) on a par 3 is likely to be getting a shot on it.

If the 'brain' approach is better than the 'brawn' one surely they'll use their shot wisely and put the driver back in the bag?
		
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We have a par 3 which, with the pin at the back, is near enough 220 yards, often playing into the prevailing wind. I've aced it with a 7 iron and come up short with driver, and it's SI 8.

A ludicrous card wrecker of a hole in my opinion. Give me a strategic 150 yard par 3 any day of the week.


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## IanG (Feb 17, 2015)

None of our par 3's are overly long all being between 150 and 190 yards. All are 'protected' by a combination of smart bunkering and the terrain - two tier greens, big slopes and banks which maybe either shaven or claggy. So players of all abilities can reach the trouble around the green and hitting the wrong part of the green can make a three putt likely. Factor in the wind which can turn a 6 iron shot into a driver you have a good formula for keeping interest up for everyone.


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## FairwayDodger (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			I was just trying to put an opposing view forward, maybe badly.

I think people put too much emphasis on 'par'.
240 to go on a par 5 with trouble around the green and they'll lay up and leave themselves an easy pitch.
Same shot on a par 3 and they feel they have to try to get on the green.
		
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I agree you need to think it through and apply some course management but 240 yards on a par 3 for club females? Ridiculous hole.


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			I'll nail my colours to the mast. 

I'm no fan of the _200 and stupid yard _par 3s that we see so many of nowadays. There are plenty of times during a round when it's necessary to open your shoulders and rip it, but for me not on a Par 3. 

I see them as a mental challenge and ideally played with a mid to short iron, and if the course designer has done their job correctly they should be no less daunting than a big ignorant slosh with the heavy artillery.

We have 4 on our home track none over 175 yards and they're all tricky for a variety of reasons

I realise of course, as with everything in life, and indeed golf, there are two sides to this coin and I'm just wondering what others think on this subject. 

.
		
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I'm the same as you. At the course i play regularly, Leckford Old, there are two cracking par 3's. The first is 150-160 yards over a valley but if you miss the green you are either playing up the slope, from the bunker or from above the bunker to a narrow green. The other is about 175 yards, downhill to a triangular shaped green surrounded by half a dozen bunkers. There's plenty of room either side if you miss green and bunkers but you'll be left with a devilish shot! Two great holes, one's a 9 iron, the other an 8 iron for me but they are a fabulous test.


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Just playing devil's advocate...

Anyone who has to hit 'heavy artillery' (I'm assuming that means driver or 3 wood) on a par 3 is likely to be getting a shot on it.

If the 'brain' approach is better than the 'brawn' one surely they'll use their shot wisely and put the driver back in the bag?
		
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For me it's not so much about how to play the hole - as in my own case (12hcp) I play long 'uns where I get a shot but many others where I don't get one. 

It's more about a test of skill and accuracy and overall course design. If I know I can't, or I will struggle to reach, I'll play the percentage but I always feel that very the long ones (220 yds + etc.) are more of a modern trend and I just don't like them very much. 

They often (but not always) seem to be included in a layout because that bit of land is featureless and a bit bland and there's not enough yardage to make a decent Par 4


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 17, 2015)

SugarPenguin said:



			Personally par 3s that are 125 and shorter surrounded by bunkers are the most fun to play.
		
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I would have to agree. Although that could be nostalgia with me as I got the bug for the game as a youngster on a gorgeous little Par 3 nine hole track half way up a mountain. None of the holes were longer than 140 yards and a lot were around the 100 mark.

Ah...happy handicapless days!


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			I would have to agree. Although that could be nostalgia with me as I got the bug for the game as a youngster on a gorgeous little Par 3 nine hole track half way up a mountain. None of the holes were longer than 140 yards and a lot were around the 100 mark.

Ah...happy handicapless days!

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Is that local? Sounds an interesting course! Not enough par 3 courses around in my opinion.


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 17, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Is that local? Sounds an interesting course! Not enough par 3 courses around in my opinion.
		
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No, it was back in Ireland when I was a lad. Sadly it's gone now but when I sometimes can't sleep I'll plot my way around it still. Long time ago now but I can picture every hole in its every detail.


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## ScienceBoy (Feb 17, 2015)

I USUALLY love a good long par 3. SOMETIMES get a shot (but I will take a 4 whatever) and often has a nice place to lay up so I can chip it close (playing to my strengths) as I am crap at anything over a 5 iron.

I see long par 3s as a chance for me to get one up on those who bite off more than they can chew without dropping a shot to those who play the hole well.


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## Pin-seeker (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm not a fan of 200yrd par 3's.
Not too keen on really short one's either. 
About 140-170 is about right.


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## duncan mackie (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			I was just trying to put an opposing view forward, maybe badly.

I think people put too much emphasis on 'par'.
240 to go on a par 5 with trouble around the green and they'll lay up and leave themselves an easy pitch.
Same shot on a par 3 and they feel they have to try to get on the green.
		
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you tried - and i agree 100% with you 

however, it crosses over with the often stated view by many on here that only the white tees count etc etc etc....

the reality is that to enjoy your golf you should (be able to in FD's case) play from a set of tees that are best suited to your capabilities.

unfortunately - 

1. we don't have them in the UK much (although some of the newer courses do)
2. the same thing that stops people taking a 7 iron of the tee to a par 3 they haven't a hope of reaching would prevent them using the correct tees if available
3. if they did use them they would get laughed at by many on here when presenting their success.

shame really - it's a game to enjoy


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## Hendo007 (Feb 17, 2015)

We have a 232 yard par 3 at our course, oh and its uphill all the way from the tee box to the green !! Most people can't make it to the green with the driver. 

Not my favourite hole if I'm honest !!!


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## dontfancythisputt (Feb 17, 2015)

I think there is a place for both short and long on the pro scene but it just seems wrong to be asking the average club playet to be hitting driver/3 wood on a par 3. 

200/210 is a sensible limited in my view for the club golfer in normal playing conditions. I see this length as a short game test as I wont be hitting the green that often so need an up and down on most occasions.


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

Take one of these monster par 3's and change the scorecard so it's now a short par 4.

The attitude of most golfers towards the hole would change, and I'd bet that well over 50% of golfers would play it differently.

Everyone is faced with the same course, and the object of the game is to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes, not record most GIR's.

Maybe I'm just arguing because I fancy my chances of picking strokes up on the guys that shoot nett 61 in the monthly medal.


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## fundy (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Take one of these monster par 3's and change the scorecard so it's now a short par 4.

The attitude of most golfers towards the hole would change, and I'd bet that well over 50% of golfers would play it differently.

Everyone is faced with the same course, and the object of the game is to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes, not record most GIR's.

Maybe I'm just arguing because I fancy my chances of picking strokes up on the guys that shoot nett 61 in the monthly medal. 

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Thing for me is Gary, most courses already have more than enough (too many) par 4s why then turn one of the few par 3s into yet another one? For me its about variety and I prefer the par 3s to be a different test, even if the longer ones tend to suit me more


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Take one of these monster par 3's and change the scorecard so it's now a short par 4.

The attitude of most golfers towards the hole would change, and I'd bet that well over 50% of golfers would play it differently.

Everyone is faced with the same course, and the object of the game is to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes, not record most GIR's.

Maybe I'm just arguing because I fancy my chances of picking strokes up on the guys that shoot nett 61 in the monthly medal. 

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I agree with you and the original point you make. For me, bogey on a 200+ par three irrespective of getting a stroke or not isn't the end of the world and definitely not a show stopper in a medal. Most won't par it


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

One of may favourite par 3's is the 5th at Teign Valley in Devon. Only about 120 yards in length, so most players will be taking a wedge or short iron. The green is pencil thin and there is water down the left hand side of the green. Its a real knee-knocker as you think you should at least make a par but, more often than not, i failed to do so when i played it! The green is also longer than it looks on the tee so three putts are a possibility. A great hole that has a lot of subtlety.


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

We have 2 at 198, a 164, a 150 and a 129. All with raised greens, all well bunkered, some with false fronts, all very double bogey-able and all great holes.

I think a lot of courses use long Par 3s to make them harder without having to be particularly creative about green design.


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

fundy said:



			Thing for me is Gary, most courses already have more than enough (too many) par 4s why then turn one of the few par 3s into yet another one? For me its about variety and I prefer the par 3s to be a different test, even if the longer ones tend to suit me more
		
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I wasn't trying to suggest that courses should do that, just that people put too much emphasis on the par figure on the card when they decide how to play the hole.

Whether the best strategy for any particular golfer is to have a whack at the green or hit a 7 iron then wedge on shouldn't depend on a number printed on the card.


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

We have two par 3's on our Hill course that in my opinion are a little silly, the second is a 220 yard par three which plays up hill with three bunkers front of the green and a big one back right of the green, most have to hit driver and do not get close it is such a bottle neck being the second.

Out 11th is a tough par three it is around 170 yards which is fine but has a tree in front of the green then a ten foot deep dip to the right giving the green entrance around 10 foot.

Always feel a par 3 over 200 yards is pushing it for most and does nothing but cause a bottle neck


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I think a lot of courses use long Par 3s to make them harder without having to be particularly creative about green design.
		
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Good point.

A good par 3 is a good par 3 regardless of length. I quite like the 2 long ones at Ascot, although maybe not having one of them as your first swing!
Theres also a cracking long par 3 at Burton.


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			I wasn't trying to suggest that courses should do that, just that people put too much emphasis on the par figure on the card when they decide how to play the hole.

*Whether the best strategy for any particular golfer is to have a whack at the green or hit a 7 iron then wedge on shouldn't depend on a number printed on the card.*

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Indeed. David Toms made it work for him on the 72nd hole of the 2001 USPGA Championship.


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Indeed. David Toms made it work for him on the 72nd hole of the 2001 USPGA Championship.
		
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Are we contemplating laying up on a par 3?


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			We have two par 3's on our Hill course that in my opinion are a little silly, the second is a 220 yard par three which plays up hill with three bunkers front of the green and a *bi* on back right of the green, most have to hit driver and do not get close it is such a bottle neck being the second.

Out 11th is a tough par three it is around 170 yards which is fine but has a tree in front of the green then a ten foot deep dip to the right giving the green entrance around 10 foot.

Always feel a par 3 over 200 yards is pushing it for most and does nothing but cause a bottle neck
		
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Excuse my ignorance, but what's a bi? (This is a genuine question!)


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			I wasn't trying to suggest that courses should do that, just that people put too much emphasis on the par figure on the card when they decide how to play the hole.

Whether the best strategy for any particular golfer is to have a whack at the green or hit a 7 iron then wedge on shouldn't depend on a number printed on the card.
		
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One of the guys I played with on Saturday told me he often thinks he should use his shot on the 15th at Blackmoor and hit 7i of the tee and leave himself with an easy Par 3; but macho pride always gets the better of him.


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Tongo said:



			Excuse my ignorance, but what's a bi? (This is a genuine question!)
		
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was supposed to say big but having trouble with the key'G' on my laptop think the kids split sweets on the keyboard


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Are we contemplating laying up on a par 3?
		
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I'd think about it if it was a ridiculous length, there was bunkers and / or water in front of the green and i would be struggling to reach said green. Sometimes you've got to play to your handicap, not the course par.


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			was supposed to say big but having trouble with the key'G' on my laptop think the kids split sweets on the keyboard
		
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Ha ha, fair enough! Was making sure i wasnt missing out on something!


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## RobertB (Feb 17, 2015)

patricks148 said:



			I think Forres has a 248 yard par 3!!
		
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ah, the tradition in highland and islands..... I learnt here on Craignure, Mull.

it was then a 241 yd par 3, 3rd hole .... 140 yard carry to start.... in late 70's early 80's with 1.62" ball and blades/tiny persimmon woods. 

I birdied every other hole on course by 15 yrs old, never even hit this green once,.....


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Tongo said:



			I'd think about it if it was a ridiculous length, there was bunkers and / or water in front of the green and i would be struggling to reach said green. Sometimes you've got to play to your handicap, not the course par.
		
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I know this makes scene, and sometimes some of my pars on long par 3's have come when my tee shot was duffed then a simple wedge in and a putt saw a par, where as ending up in a bad spot going for it can be a double. 

I'm not sure I would lay up though


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Are we contemplating laying up on a par 3?
		
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I've done it before on the 17th at RAGC: kind of. I'd often hit a club that I knew wouldn't reach the bunkers but might just sneak onto the front of the green. The theory being that the chip was much easier from the front of the green than anywhere else.


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I've done it before on the 17th at RAGC: kind of. I'd often hit a club that I knew wouldn't reach the bunkers but might just sneak onto the front of the green. The theory being that the chip was much easier from the front of the green than anywhere else.
		
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Maybe the problem I have here is i'm relating it too much to the second, as the hill is so steep at the front of the green you can roll back down where you cannot really see where the pin is, you may also have to go over bunkers to get on. I do really think it is a rubbish hole to be fair. Plays so much better off the yellows at around 170-180


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I've done it before on the 17th at RAGC: kind of. I'd often hit a club that I knew wouldn't reach the bunkers but might just sneak onto the front of the green. The theory being that the chip was much easier from the front of the green than anywhere else.
		
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It all comes down to what score you end up putting on the card and i think there is an element of machismo/pride in people not wanting to lay-up. 

I quite often take a 5 iron off of the tee rather than a driver or wood which some people see as heresy. I personally dont give a fig about what people think or say about how i play the game, its all about course management and what is the best chance of achieving a par or, at worst, a bogie.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

Hit whatever you feel you need to be able to give you the score you want on that hole 

Thankfully I'm able to reach most par threes I have played and wouldn't ever feel the need to lay up - I may drop short at times if I don't connect well.

Seen players lay up on par 3s and then get up and down for a 3 but also get a 4 and be happy

But think a par 3 should be a hole that encourages people to attack and go for the pins


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hit whatever you feel you need to be able to give you the score you want on that hole 

Thankfully I'm able to reach most par threes I have played and wouldn't ever feel the need to lay up - I may drop short at times if I don't connect well.

Seen players lay up on par 3s and then get up and down for a 3 but also get a 4 and be happy

*But think a par 3 should be a hole that encourages people to attack and go for the pins*

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I think you have summed up my thoughts on a par 3 in the bold


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			I know this makes scene, and sometimes some of my pars on long par 3's have come when my tee shot was duffed then a simple wedge in and a putt saw a par, where as ending up in a bad spot going for it can be a double. 

I'm not sure I would lay up though
		
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Would you ever lay up on a par 5 if you had 230 to go with your second shot and there was trouble around the green?


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

As I said most people won't par these monster par 3's If you can park the ego and play sensibly and ensure no worse than a bogey you might make a good putt for par and that's almost gaining a shot, perhaps two on most of the field. Many will go with the big stick and make worse than bogey so I think as long as you've a plan and stick to it.


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## Tongo (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			I think you have summed up my thoughts on a par 3 in the bold
		
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Ditto


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Would you ever lay up on a par 5 if you had 230 to go with your second shot and there was trouble around the green?
		
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Yes, but had I not dropped any shots a 5 iron or so would leave me 60 yards or so with three shots for a par.


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			Yes, but had I not dropped any shots a 5 iron or so would leave me 60 yards or so with three shots for a par.
		
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Ok, now it's a par 4, same 2nd shot. Same answer?

Edit. Sorry, not read your reply properly. I can guess the answer now.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			I think you have summed up my thoughts on a par 3 in the bold
		
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Just have to look at the Par 3's at Augusta - tough and tempting for the players 

Woburn Marquess has tempting par threes 

Want too see players firing at the pins 

230 par threes for amateurs are just a waste


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Hit whatever you feel you need to be able to give you the score you want on that hole 

Thankfully I'm able to reach most par threes I have played and wouldn't ever feel the need to lay up - I may drop short at times if I don't connect well.

Seen players lay up on par 3s and then get up and down for a 3 but also get a 4 and be happy

But think a par 3 should be a hole that encourages people to attack and go for the pins
		
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I'd love to see you attack the pin on the 17th at RAGC when it's back right.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I'd love to see you attack the pin on the 17th at RAGC when it's back right.
		
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How far is it ?


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Ok, now it's a par 4, same 2nd shot. Same answer?
		
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Haha, great question.:thup:

I have to admit I have no problem laying up on a par 4 with a well protected green from 200 yards and sometimes less. I would also say doing this has helped me get my handicap to my lowest point as I normally quite fancy my chances of getting up and down and know worst case it is a bogey.

I would also add as mentioned earlier that I think a par three should challenge a player to attack the pin


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How far is it ?
		
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217 to the middle. Back right is behind a bunker with the green sloping Right to left


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How far is it ?
		
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218 yards off the whites. OB left (in play as it pinches in closer the nearer you get to the green and is only ten yards to the left at green level) and a deep bunker right and a slightly shallower one left. Green slopes right to left and front to back and so anything missing right has a near impossible pitch to hold and stop. All that and SI 13


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## garyinderry (Feb 17, 2015)

I have laid up out the back of our 210 yard par 3.  


I hit a half cutty driver out the back as to avoid the ditch and big tree that overhangs near the green.    messed up too many times in comps so fancied myself getting up and down from out the back or bogey at worst.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			217 to the middle. Back right is behind a bunker with the green sloping Right to left
		
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So at that distance it's not really a par 3 set up for amateurs to attack. So it's a waste really.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So at that distance it's not really a par 3 set up for amateurs to attack. So it's a waste really.
		
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It's not a hole for even the single figures to attach especially with OB so close left and a really hard shot for anything missing right especially if that means going over a bunker. Not a great hole but you still have to make a score there. I don't get a shot so will take four and run every time


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			I have to admit I have no problem laying up on a par 4 with a well protected green from 200 yards and sometimes less. I would also say doing this has helped me get my handicap to my lowest point as I normally quite fancy my chances of getting up and down and know worst case it is a bogey
		
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Im glad to hear it.

So..... Same shot from the tee on a par 3?


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			Im glad to hear it.

So..... Same shot from the tee on a par 3?  

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Yes well errrr... Smack it :lol:


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

I laid up on all the par 4's over 400 yards at the GM Centenary Final and made something like 11/12 points on those particular holes. I could have taken on the shot with a fairway wood but the risks didn't seem worth it. I stuck to the plan even when I nailed a drive and arguably maybe should have gambled at that point and it took a lot of mental strength to bunt a mid iron into wedge territory but I trusted my pitching and putting. 

If the risk on a 200+ yard par 3 wasn't conducive to take it on then why not leave a simpler and safer second shot in and trust the short game (which we all work on ) to get a cast iron bogey and maybe a par and steal a march on the field


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			I laid up on all the par 4's over 400 yards at the GM Centenary Final and made something like 11/12 points on those particular holes. I could have taken on the shot with a fairway wood but the risks didn't seem worth it. I stuck to the plan even when I nailed a drive and arguably maybe should have gambled at that point and it took a lot of mental strength to bunt a mid iron into wedge territory but I trusted my pitching and putting. 

If the risk on a 200+ yard par 3 wasn't conducive to take it on then why not leave a simpler and safer second shot in and trust the short game (which we all work on ) to get a cast iron bogey and maybe a par and steal a march on the field
		
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So how often do you (intentionally) lay up on your first hole?


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## Tiger man (Feb 17, 2015)

Well after reading this thread really feel I am missing out! My course only has 3 and they are all around 150 yards, yawn.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

Region3 said:



			So how often do you (intentionally) lay up on your first hole?
		
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I usually take a 5 wood to "try" and keep it in play. If I nail it I'll get close. If not it should leave a simple chip. However to be honest there's a lot of dead ground short with longish grass and so laying up and getting a decent lie especially at this time of year arguably negates playing safe as there's no guarantee how it'll lie, whether it gets muddy (not eligible to pick and place as its not mown). Better off at the moment being a little more aggressive especially with a shot. Even if I go OB and hit three off the tee (great title for a blog) I can get still attempt to rescue a five, net four and a point that way. In the summer with dryer lies there's merit in the lay up for sure


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## Tiger (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't mind a long par 3 so long as it's a one off, doesn't occur at the start of the round and has the right SI. Ours is 218 off the whites, first hole on the course and SI 5. If it was the 4th or 5th hole and SI 2 it would be better.

I like it mixed up a bit. If there are 4/5 par 3s I want to have to use 4/5 different clubs to get there


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 17, 2015)

Tiger said:



			I don't mind a long par 3 so long as it's a one off, doesn't occur at the start of the round and has the right SI. Ours is 218 off the whites, first hole on the course and SI 5. If it was the 4th or 5th hole and SI 2 it would be better.

I like it mixed up a bit. If there are 4/5 par 3s I want to have to use 4/5 different clubs to get there
		
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That is a tough start


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## Tiger (Feb 17, 2015)

NorfolkShaun said:



			That is a tough start
		
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Certainly is. Most are happy with a 4 and move on. The green is quite long, slopes quite a bit back to front and is narrow with bunkers either side at the front. So safest play is hit a shot about 180/190 and try to get up and down


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 17, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			But think a par 3 should be a hole that encourages people to attack and go for the pins
		
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This is exactly what I think too. 

Saying that a four will do is not, in my view, what the concept of the Par 3 is all about. Surely the recieved wisdom and litmus test for "a fair test of golf" allows us all two putts following hitting a green in regulation. So where then does that argument leave the acceptance of a 4 on a Par 3 as being fair?:mmm:


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			This is exactly what I think too. 

Saying that a four will do is not, in my view, what the concept of the Par 3 is all about. Surely the recieved wisdom and litmus test for "a fair test of golf" allows us all two putts following hitting a green in regulation. So where then does that argument leave the acceptance of a 4 on a Par 3 as being fair?:mmm:
		
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The same place as the acceptance of a 5 on a Par 4 does. I'd take a 5 on our 10th every week, and the 5th come to think of it


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## ScienceBoy (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			This is exactly what I think too. 

Saying that a four will do is not, in my view, what the concept of the Par 3 is all about.
		
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What do you think about courses with a SSS above their par? 

I think a bogey on a hole where the average score is that then you are not losing much to your competitors, plenty of other holes to score on.


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## HomerJSimpson (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			This is exactly what I think too. 

Saying that a four will do is not, in my view, what the concept of the Par 3 is all about. Surely the recieved wisdom and litmus test for "a fair test of golf" allows us all two putts following hitting a green in regulation. So where then does that argument leave the acceptance of a 4 on a Par 3 as being fair?:mmm:
		
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But how many times will say a mid handicapper hit a 200 yard par 3 in regulation out of say 10 attempts. To me golf is about knowing your game and when to play the percentages. I am more than happy with a 4 on both the 1st (229 off the whites) and the 17th (218 yards). I get a shot on the first (SI 10) and not on the seventeenth (SI 13) but figure there are easier holes including relatively short par fives that I get shots at which I can look to pick shots up on.


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 17, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			The same place as the acceptance of a 5 on a Par 4 does. I'd take a 5 on our 10th every week, and the 5th come to think of it
		
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That's valid point and hard to argue against. However another, although a now less commonly used term for a Par 3, is "Short hole" OK so it's a bit 'Pro-Celebrity Golf' for those old enough to remember this show, but to me it says it all. 220 yards is not a short hole and it's probably why I'll never warm to Par3s of this length.


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## louise_a (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't get shots at any of our par 3s but I tend to use a driver on one of them and a smaller wood on 2 others, I tend not to worry if I don't par them as I am likely to get pars on some of the par 4s and par 5 where I don't get shots.


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			That's valid point and hard to argue against. However another, although a now less commonly used term for a Par 3, is "Short hole" OK so it's a bit 'Pro-Celebrity Golf' for those old enough to remember this show, but to me it says it all. 220 yards is not a short hole and it's probably why I'll never warm to Par3s of this length.
		
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I think you're clutching a bit there. You get long and short Par 3s, 4s and 5s. The thing with golf is that you are supposed to use your skill to overcome the challenge put in front of you.


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 17, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			I think you're clutching a bit there. You get long and short Par 3s, 4s and 5s. The thing with golf is that you are supposed to use your skill to overcome the challenge put in front of you.
		
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Probably am to be fair and I'm not saying I crumble into a heap of uselessness when faced with such holes. I too play them to suit my abilities, but it's the bigger picture and the original spirit of the game that I'm talking about here.

The modern obsession with length as the bee all and end all irritates me and I stand by my view that a Par 3 should be subtle rather than 'crash bang wallop'. Not saying I'm right in my view, just that it's my view.

*Bows out of debate*


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## Region3 (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			That's valid point and hard to argue against. However another, although a now less commonly used term for a Par 3, is "Short hole" OK so it's a bit 'Pro-Celebrity Golf' for those old enough to remember this show, but to me it says it all. 220 yards is not a short hole and it's probably why I'll never warm to Par3s of this length.
		
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The answer is to stop thinking about par and just think of them as golf holes.

The ball is on the tee, the hole is over there. Your job is to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes you can.

The average golfer's final score bears no resemblance to par so why even worry about a number on the card?


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 17, 2015)

Augusta has four par 3's - one is 240 off the Masters tee the other three below 170

The best and most exciting and biggest test of skill are the two on the back 9 - the shorter ones 

You don't have to have long par 3 to make it a test 

Toughest and most exciting par 3 at Woburn is the 3rd on the Dukes - also the shortest


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 17, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			Probably am to be fair and I'm not saying I crumble into a heap of uselessness when faced with such holes. I too play them to suit my abilities, but it's the bigger picture and the original spirit of the game that I'm talking about here.

The modern obsession with length as the bee all and end all irritates me and I stand by my view that a Par 3 should be subtle rather than 'crash bang wallop'. Not saying I'm right in my view, just that it's my view.

*Bows out of debate*
		
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Fair enough. For what it's worthI agree that when Par 3s start pushing 220+ they become a little bit silly but as long as the course has a good mixture then I'm OK with it.


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## Evesdad (Feb 17, 2015)

We have 2 long par 3's. Tge long ones are 210 & 200, the short ones are 155 & 163. A good mix both have their quirks.


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## User20205 (Feb 17, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			But how many times will say a mid handicapper hit a 200 yard par 3 in regulation out of say 10 attempts. To me golf is about knowing your game and when to play the percentages. I am more than happy with a 4 on both the 1st (229 off the whites) and the 17th (218 yards). I get a shot on the first (SI 10) and not on the seventeenth (SI 13) but figure there are easier holes including relatively short par fives that I get shots at which I can look to pick shots up on.
		
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But the other day you were adamant you wouldn't lay up on your 1st.  You are very contradictory homer. 

Quote 'It's a par 3! Just a poor swing and no warm up!' ????

I'm confused, do you post so much that you forget what you write?


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## Smiffy (Feb 18, 2015)

I don't really like long par 3's, much preferring ones where you have to "think" about it a little rather than the hit and hope type.
Cooden has a nice variety, with one in particular (14th) being a real puzzler at times, and will have you scratching your head.
It's 193 off the back tees, 181 from the yellows, all downhill, but you cannot get away with a poorly hit shot on here as there is just too much trouble in front of you.
Also, depending on the wind it can play anything from a 7 iron to a driver. 
To top it all off, the green is one of the trickiest on the course with some severe undulations. You don't want to be long when the pin is cut on the front.
Can't remember what the SI is, I think (think) it's 17. All I know is that I don't shot on there and if I do happen to walk off with a 3 it really does feel like I have escaped some sort of punishment and I will look on it as a shot gained.


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## Slab (Feb 18, 2015)

I need my brain to kick in on these holes because I play a different game from some of you  

Unlike the typical forum member I drive the ball about 190 topping at 200 on a good day so thereâ€™s no such thing as a 220yrd par 3 

When I play a hole over 200 that the scorecard says is a par 3 Iâ€™m obviously going to play it as a par 4 (& itâ€™s much more fun for me, otherwise it would be depressing faced with a long par 3)
Even at 200 long Iâ€™m not going to hit driver off the tee to a landing area smaller than my thumbnail, that would be atrocious course management unless the green sits in the bottom of a bowl!

I play quite a few long par 3â€™s that have fairways, my rationale is that they have fairways for a reason so Iâ€™m playing up with 5w or normally a hybrid (depending on where I want to play my pitch from)

I donâ€™t stand on the tee of a 400yrd par 4 thinking Iâ€™ll make GIR so wouldnâ€™t try it on a 200 par 3

I tend to think that course/hole Par numbers exists as a measure for scratch golfers to use & itâ€™s not hard to mentally adjust it for my own handicap level


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## Imurg (Feb 18, 2015)

Most amateurs need to play a par 3 over 200 yards as a par 4 - simples.
If you can reach it the chances are you've missed it and will need, probably, a chip and 2 putts.
Its not really a par 3, its a short par 4.
I tell Fragger that no grown man needs a shot at a par 3. He points out our long par 3 where I get a shot. I tell him its a short par 4.
I'm not unhappy with a 4 on it because I know I'm not going to lose much if any ground on everyone else.


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## Smiffy (Feb 18, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			We have 2 at 198, a 164, a 150 and a 129. All with raised greens, all well bunkered, some with false fronts, all very double bogey-able and all great holes.
		
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As much as I love playing Blackmoor, I really don't like your 6th and 15th holes.
Guaranteed card wreckers for me.
Fine if you are able to hit the ball a long way with irons, but if, like me, you are firing in a fairway wood you stand not a hope in hell of holding the green (unless you knob one and it runs up on to them).
And if you do miss the green, neither of them are the easiest greens to chip on to.
The other par 3's are fine and don't bother me at all....well maybe the 17th if it's into the wind!!


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## Nosevi (Feb 18, 2015)

2 of the par 3s on my course: 

One is 215 yards off the back to a 2 tier green sloping towards you and plays a tad down hill - everything is in front of you and and it's pretty open, bail out left or right, your call.
The other is 150 yards (about 140 off the yellows) with out of bounds tight all the way down the left, trees left side and behind the green, 6 foot deep bunker guarding the front and a green sloping sharply away from you. Oh yes and heavy rough on the right.

Both holes give a different challenge but for my money the short one is far harder.


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## Liverpoolphil (Feb 18, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			As much as I love playing Blackmoor, I really don't like your 6th and 15th holes.
Guaranteed card wreckers for me.
Fine if you are able to hit the ball a long way with irons, but if, like me, you are firing in a fairway wood you stand not a hope in hell of holding the green (unless you knob one and it runs up on to them).
And if you do miss the green, neither of them are the easiest greens to chip on to.
The other par 3's are fine and don't bother me at all....well maybe the 17th if it's into the wind!!
		
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The 9th is the best Par 3 at Blackmoor - doesnt need to be long to be tough.


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## Oddsocks (Feb 18, 2015)

We have a good mixed depending one which loop your playing, yellow distances first

Yellow 9

150/175
175/200

Red 9
120/145
150/170

Blue
145/160
110/130

It's nice that each 9 has a shortish and med to longish par 3, it's a good mix


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## Smiffy (Feb 18, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The 9th is the best Par 3 at Blackmoor - doesnt need to be long to be tough.
		
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I love the 9th at Blackmoor. Easy 7 iron for me. 
And I like the 12th. That one makes you think a bit.
The 17th is OK. Another "thinker".


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## Smiffy (Feb 18, 2015)

I always get a little annoyed at some of these high indexed long par 3's.
I know that the stroke index isn't always indicative of how hard the hole actually is, but it's a bit of a joke having to hit a 5 or even a 3 wood/driver into a 220 yard par 3 that is stroke index 17.
Give me a par 4 where you are having to wallop that sort of approach shot in, and I can almost guarantee that it's index will be below 5 or 6.


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## NorfolkShaun (Feb 18, 2015)

Good debate this for me, one thing on our second is if one of us duffs our attempt short at the green we always end up walking off the tee saying i'll take that where as left and right green high can be in trouble, maybe the answer is just a five iron or so.....


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 18, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The 9th is the best Par 3 at Blackmoor - doesnt need to be long to be tough.
		
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The 9th and 12th are my favourite holes. 15 is a pig


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## Smiffy (Feb 18, 2015)

HawkeyeMS said:



			15 is a pig
		
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I've certainly oinked a few on there


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## MashieNiblick (Feb 18, 2015)

This has been a really interesting thread. I don't mind long par 3's. No different from long 4's or 5's. I'm not a long hitter so they aren't my favourite holes but being able to hit the ball a long way accurately is a skill that should be rewarded and these long holes do that. As long as the course also has holes that reward other skills and give shorter hitters a chance, having the odd one of these isn't an issue. When faced with one I have to work out the best way for me to play the hole in fewest strokes, which is just another of golf's intrinsic challenges.

One of our par 3's was recently extended to about 190. Into the wind that is a big shot for me but all the trouble is left and right so I just hit a 5 wood and look to chip on from the apron or from the front bunkers (and sometimes have a go at both ).


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## Slab (Feb 18, 2015)

This thread brought to mind a tale I was told about a guy off 3 who had the chance to talk to the course designer (who was visiting) about how tough it was to make par on the SI 1 460 yard par4. 

The designer said you play off 3, youâ€™re not supposed to make par on that hole!


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 18, 2015)

Interesting how this thread has developed.

When starting it I was more interested in the changing 'spirit' of the game, where I feel the traditional Par3, which was often seen as a 'short hole' and, by and large, was reachable off the tee by most abilities, has now become a hole like any other on the course (which of course it is)

I suppose modern equipment and course design has changed the wider perception the golfing fraternity has about short holes, and perhaps too the quaint view that I have about 3s is changing, but I have enjoyed the debate. In particular the many good points raised about course management and mindset when tackling one of the longer variety Par 3s.

Still don't like 'em though&#128516;


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## duncan mackie (Feb 18, 2015)

JohnnyDee said:



			Interesting how this thread has developed.

When starting it I was more interested in the changing 'spirit' of the game, where I feel the traditional Par3, which was often seen as a 'short hole' and, by and large, was reachable off the tee by most abilities, has now become a hole like any other on the course (which of course it is)

I suppose modern equipment and course design has changed the wider perception the golfing fraternity has about short holes, and perhaps too the quaint view that I have about 3s is changing, but I have enjoyed the debate. In particular the many good points raised about course management and mindset when tackling one of the longer variety Par 3s.

Still don't like 'em thoughðŸ˜„
		
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It's worth noting that the game was played for well over 100 years without the concept of par.
It was established after the courses were already in play (not all of them obviously! )  to help the readers of newspapers comprehend the scale of achievement of professional golfers (well sort of professionals) and was ÃŸubsequently expanded with the bogey rating being a representation of the same thing for gentlemen golfers.

Today we have the Course SSS to indicate your overall target in relation to the whole round and your handicap (or handicap index, course index and par in the US) but par is merely indicative and it's up to individual players to breakdown their approach.

Unfortunately this seems to lead many to frustration rather than an appreciation of the finer elements of the challenge. With golf performance being so dependant on mental approach it's another area that quickly indicates a players likely strengths -when I come across someone who sets off to play an uphill par 4 as a 3 shot hole from the tee, then the following (longer on the card) par 5 as a 2 shotter, I know I am up against a formidable opponent!


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## Deleted member 3432 (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm a big fan of a good short par 3. The 9th at Silloth for example,  plays between 120 and 140 depending on which tee but a brilliant hole. Into the prevailing wind with a small green and run off's either side. Deep bunkers and a missed green can easily mean a double bogey. 

A shortish iron but needs total commitment to the shot aimed at the centre of the green, forget about attacking the flag just too risky.  Find the middle of the green a you have a decent birdie chance.

Two many long par 3 holes just make for dull golf in my opinion.


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## HawkeyeMS (Feb 18, 2015)

Slab said:



			This thread brought to mind a tale I was told about a guy off 3 who had the chance to talk to the course designer (who was visiting) about how tough it was to make par on the SI 1 460 yard par4. 

The designer said you play off 3, youâ€™re not supposed to make par on that hole!
		
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All that tells me is that the designer (and player probably) doesn't understand SI. It is not supposed to represent difficulty alone. The SI also wouldn't have been allocated until after the course was built.

Personally I think too many people get hung up on SI, it's what score you shoot after 18 holes that counts, not what you make on specific holes


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## dontfancythisputt (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm a big believer in generally ignoring SI for stroke play events and playing every hole as I find it but I would say that SI can have a huge part to play on par 3s in match play and stab events as id hate to be giving a shot to an opponent on a 200+ par 3 as its would be an easy 4 for them yet a very hard 3 for me.

agreed that this is a good thread.


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## ruff-driver (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm not a fan of the 200yd + but it is what it is.
Hard work in the wind & rain though,
Last months medal we we staring into the teeth of a 3-4 club wind on a 190yd par 3,
I elected to hit a smooth 3 wood, it finished pin high left,
shame it was 5 yds o.b , my provisional finished next to it :rofl:


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## srixon 1 (Feb 18, 2015)

SVB said:



			Merrick Park down in Bournemouth has a 244 yd par 3 for the 1st that plays across a valley so anything short in the summer and you watch it roll 100 yds down to the bottom.  Nasty especially as there is no driving range as such to warm up so often first shot out of the car.  Horrible!
		
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That is soon followed up with the par 3 4th at 242 yards. Sandwiched in-between is the 3rd, a par 4 of 469 yards. As tough a start as you will find anywhere. At least the second is only just over 300 yards.


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## Andy808 (Feb 19, 2015)

I have no problem with long par 3's as we have two on our course. One is later in the round and at 200 yards with a large bunker on the left and a pair of bunkers short right it's main protection is it's length. It's a great hole which I look forward to playing. 
the other is a totally different kettle of fish. 216 yards to a small green that slopes to the left with a bunker and a steep slope on that side. It's also protected by a bunker in front that is right on the line to the heart of the green and exactly where you want to land the ball when the fairway is rock solid in the summer. There's a ditch that runs from about half way down the fairway diagonally to the left and there's a line of trees tight down the right hand side of the tee with OOB past them the full length of the hole. It's a stunning hole but it's the first! So many people have said it's probably the hardest opening hole in Cornwall which is high praise with some of the courses we have around us.


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## srixon 1 (Feb 19, 2015)

Anyone played at Dartmouth? The 18th is a massive downhill par 3 over water and is 244 yards off the tips. First time i played there it was into wind and off the yellows i still required a driver to get there.

For those of you that know the course, one of our left handed society members hit a massive slice that day and his ball ended up on the practice putting green.

The 7th is also a monster, 237 yards uphill (back tees) with a green that is well protected by trees and bunkers. There is also a pond just in front of the tee box, not really in play but can get in your head if you are swinging badly.


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## JohnnyDee (Feb 20, 2015)

Interesting that we're pretty well split on this issue.

As I have already stated, I don't like them. However the many comments, in particular those ignoring a hole's individual par in favour of concentrating on the overall 18, have given me a totally different perspective, or will at least be quite a help to my mindset, next time I'm faced with playing one.


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## SVB (Feb 21, 2015)

srixon 1 said:



			That is soon followed up with the par 3 4th at 242 yards. Sandwiched in-between is the 3rd, a par 4 of 469 yards. As tough a start as you will find anywhere. At least the second is only just over 300 yards. 

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Yes, and is bizzare given the course only totals 5,500 yd or so - with the start you think you've taken on a 7,000 monster!


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## srixon 1 (Feb 21, 2015)

SVB said:



			Yes, and is bizzare given the course only totals 5,500 yd or so - with the start you think you've taken on a 7,000 monster!
		
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Played there in a Bournemouth Alliance event once, and on the first hole the pro (Jon Bevan) knocked his tee shot with a driver to a couple of inches.


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## Bobirdie (Feb 21, 2015)

My course has 7 par 3s. 2 of which are around 220 off the medals & 2 are 197. Thats the holes i usually drop shots on. If i miss the green i rarely get up and down. Good challenge though i know i need to up my short game


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## Darren24 (Feb 21, 2015)

Imo I would agree with the OP and say anything over 200 is not good. I played a course in North Wales call Hawarden and I think it's the 6th. Big down hill, par 3 90 to the front and 115 to the backend its a hilltop green with surrounding bunkers. Very tricky although very short, now that's more challenging for a par 3 imo.


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## JohnnyDee (Apr 16, 2015)

Nice to see this thread making into "Your Shout" in this month's GM print mag.:thup:


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## Dando (Apr 16, 2015)

Beckenham has 2 par 3's over 230 yards! 
the 5th is 247, up hill to a 2 tier green sloping towards you and is usually into the wind! 
the 10th is only 230 and is slightly down hill.


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## Face breaker (Apr 16, 2015)

srixon 1 said:



			Anyone played at Dartmouth? The 18th is a massive downhill par 3 over water and is 244 yards off the tips. First time i played there it was into wind and off the yellows i still required a driver to get there.

For those of you that know the course, one of our left handed society members hit a massive slice that day and his ball ended up on the practice putting green.

The 7th is also a monster, 237 yards uphill (back tees) with a green that is well protected by trees and bunkers. There is also a pond just in front of the tee box, not really in play but can get in your head if you are swinging badly.
		
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Rite on my doorstep but I've never been around it, I know the "head greenie" as I'm also in the trade, have you ever been to "Bigbury GC" I work and play there !...:thup:

ps, I'll go for brawn over brains every time !...


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## Kellfire (Apr 17, 2015)

The 18th at my track is 225 yards, uphill and has a bunker on other side to catch anything that's runs up. I rarely make 3.


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## Smiffy (Apr 17, 2015)

Played at Blackmoor again on Wednesday and the 6th (blob) and 15th (1 point) done me in again.
New irons are working well though....long with an 8 iron on the 9th. I used to have to hit a 7 iron up there!


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## Hobbit (Apr 17, 2015)

Most courses have 4x par 3's. Why can't one of them be 230yds, ideally with a larger green? I wouldn't be a fan of a course with 4x par 3's, all of which were between 150 & 180. I want to be tested right through the bag in a round.


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## Robobum (Apr 17, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			Most courses have 4x par 3's. Why can't one of them be 230yds, ideally with a larger green? I wouldn't be a fan of a course with 4x par 3's, all of which were between 150 & 180. I want to be tested right through the bag in a round.
		
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This ^^^^^

I think folk get too hung up with the par number. Which is probably down to that awful stableford mindset.

Regardless of length or what the hole par is, the objective remains the same - ball in hole ASAP.


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## Fish (Apr 17, 2015)

We have 4 x par 3's, the first you come to is the 5th (si16), a gentle downhill 179yds drive down an avenue of trees with greenside bunkers left & right.  The next par 3 is our 7th, a very tricky 148yds (si18) through some very tight and tall trees which flank a very deep bomb hole with a pond which is at least 100yds carry to the front bunker and then there are left & right greenside bunkers.  The third par 3 is our 15th (si5), another downward 219yd drive, trees left & right, bunkers 30yds short right and greenside bunkers left & right, a more narrow green and target. The last of our par 3's is the 17th which has been mentioned in Jacks book of his greatest par 3's, its 191yds (si9) driving to a 2-tier raised green, its tight & flanked all the way by trees, the green is raised so anything left or right is an awkward/delicate chip, greenside bunkers left & right, if you ask the members what's the toughest hole on the course, most will say either our par 5 16th or this tough par 3 17th, our last 6 finishing holes are all tough from the back stones.


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## guest100718 (Apr 17, 2015)

nothing wrong with a 200 plus yd par 3. It makes for a good challenge.


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## Hobbit (Apr 17, 2015)

Robobum said:



			Regardless of length or what the hole par is, the objective remains the same - ball in hole ASAP.
		
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A previous club pro, and I think Bobmac, have said pretty much the same thing. Par is an arbitrary number. Your aim is to score as low as possible. It might mean a 4 on a difficult par 3, but it might be a 3 on an easy par 4... its the total at the end of the round that is the important figure.


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## richart (Apr 17, 2015)

I like variety in par 3's. We have five, and I will usually hit five different clubs for my tee shots. Second shots are usually the same though, sand iron.


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