# Supplementary card



## Lump (Sep 10, 2011)

What are the rules for supplementary cards. 

Today I played in a yellow ball comp. But asked one of my playing partners to mark a supplementary card for me. I ended up playing pretty well and shooting 9 over par (5 under my handicap).

I gave this card in but my pro wasn't sure if I could use it?? The comp was off the whites.
I need to clarify this with the pro tomorrow.

What sort of cut would I be expecting? The course is a Par 71 I'm not sure of the SSS?CSS (Never quite understood that)


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## chris661 (Sep 10, 2011)

You need to declare it before you go out. Thats about all I know but someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly.


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## rosecott (Sep 10, 2011)

No good deciding after the event - the principle is declaring intent.


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## Lump (Sep 10, 2011)

Is that declaring a card to the pro/club I take it. I went out with the intention to fill in a supplemental card due to the next few weeks being team events. My playing partners knew this.


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## rosecott (Sep 10, 2011)

No - your club is required to have a system to declare the round in advance to preclude the possibility of declaring after the event. Telling your playing partners on the course would not be acceptable.


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## Lump (Sep 10, 2011)

Gutting, guess that round isnt worth much now then.

Cheers


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## rosecott (Sep 10, 2011)

Gutting, guess that round isnt worth much now then.

Cheers 

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If you could do it then, you can do it again.


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## bobmac (Sep 11, 2011)

This is my pet hate.
Congu   
You cant do this and you have to declare that and no more than 10 a year and not off the yellows and only if your not playing other comps and exceptional circumstances and blah blah blah   
We (the committee) know best so won't cut you. It says so in the rules      

Under the old scheme, you could get cut in general play and that worked very well indeed for many many years.
*SO WHY DID THEY CHANGE IT* ?????   

The player himself/herself is the best judge of how they are playing, (their current playing ability if you will)so if they declare to the h/cap sec that there h/cap doesn't reflect their current playing ability, the h/cap sec should take their word for it, accept the card and chop accordingly.

I just dont understand why in today's game when comps are being won on a regular basis all over the land with stupid scores, why did Congu make it almost impossible for players to get chopped in general play?

I'm off for a lie down now


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## chrisd (Sep 12, 2011)

Correct Bob!

I have played in 2 competitions in the past few weeks and put in cards of 68 nett in both and because of css and sss I am only playing off .1 lower than I was before the good rounds started. I was 3 under on both occasions and would have been quite happy to lose at least 2 shots. CONGU seem to want to stop me from getting nearer single figures and, frankly, cant see who they are protecting!

The css means that I dont come down as much and as quickly as I want but ensures that the bad round costs me a + .1, its all so daft!


Chris


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## CallawayKid (Sep 12, 2011)

But asked one of my playing partners to mark a supplementary card for me. I ended up playing pretty well and shooting 9 over par (5 under my handicap).
		
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As long as the card marker knew of your intent prior to teeing off I can see no issue with the Handicap Secretary accepting the card. If he doesn't then he's an arse. The card is marked correctly and signed? No problem.

CK


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## musselburghgolfclub (Sep 12, 2011)

This is my pet hate.
Congu   
You cant do this and you have to declare that and no more than 10 a year and not off the yellows and only if your not playing other comps and exceptional circumstances and blah blah blah   
We (the committee) know best so won't cut you. It says so in the rules      

Under the old scheme, you could get cut in general play and that worked very well indeed for many many years.
*SO WHY DID THEY CHANGE IT* ?????   

The player himself/herself is the best judge of how they are playing, (their current playing ability if you will)so if they declare to the h/cap sec that there h/cap doesn't reflect their current playing ability, the h/cap sec should take their word for it, accept the card and chop accordingly.

I just dont understand why in today's game when comps are being won on a regular basis all over the land with stupid scores, why did Congu make it almost impossible for players to get chopped in general play?

I'm off for a lie down now   

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Good Contender for rant of the month bobmac


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## stevek1969 (Sep 12, 2011)

A couple of months ago me and a mate of mine put in a supplementary card ,we went thru the process ,told the pro filled in the sheet for doing it,played of the whites then we were told the club weren't interested in looking at the cards.

Why did they have a notice on the board explaining the rules on this matter then,i work a lot of weekends and most weeks when i'm of theres no comps on so it works for me to get my handicap cut if i play well enough.
Our thought were the wee bawbag of a secretary would have to do some work instead of playing golf or hob knobing it with the R & A and every opportunity.

rant over.


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## musselburghgolfclub (Sep 12, 2011)

Nah good rant steve but bobmac still leads.


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2011)

.
wee bawbag of a secretary 

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Why not inform your Area Authority (County Union) or maybe just the threat? He's not doing his job.


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2011)

We (the committee) know best so won't cut you.

The player himself/herself is the best judge of how they are playing, (their current playing ability if you will)so if they declare to the h/cap sec that there h/cap doesn't reflect their current playing ability, the h/cap sec should take their word for it, accept the card and chop accordingly.

I just dont understand why in today's game when comps are being won on a regular basis all over the land with stupid scores, why did Congu make it almost impossible for players to get chopped in general play?
		
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Bob

1. The committee should know best - remember they are voted in by the members.
2. General Play cuts can still be - and are - made but on solid evidence and not on knee-jerk reactions or because the player wants one.
3. The player is the best judge? Anarchy rules. We all know players who have an inflated idea of their own ability and would want a low handicap as a badge of honour (look at the proliferation of websites "awarding" handicaps based on the player's say so). The current system is the best available to give an objective assessment of a player's playing ability.
4.Players winning comps with stupid scores? That's up to the club to ensure, for example, that initial handicap awards are properly carried out.
5. The CONGU UHS isn't perfect but it's as good as we're likely to get - and it's only ever going to be as good as the people running it at club level - and if it's not being properly run at club level, then it's up to players to do something about it.
6. Check your blood pressure.


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2011)

1.remember they are voted in by the members.
		
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Maybe in some clubs but but not all and they still have to follow Congu rules.




			2. General Play cuts can still be
		
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I am aware of that but only in exceptional circumstances




			3.The player is the best judge
		
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I stand by that statement. If he has the cards to prove it why not cut him? If it's an ego trip he wont be winning anything for a while.




			4. that initial handicap awards are properly carried out
		
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How can they when the rules of Congu make it almost impossible except possibly at the annual review.




			and it's only ever going to be as good as the people running it at club level
		
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How can they run it properly when the congu rules dont allow it.
Oops sorry, they can if they haven't played enough qualifiers or have been injured or work stops them playing comps and they sign the form before they play with written permission from at least 3 committee members and they must play off the white tees as yellows dont count etc etc etc. 

6. My blood pressure is fine. It's the poor cat I guys I feel sorry for today. 
Luckily, I dont compete in h/cap stuff very often now but did do at cat I level for over 25 years.

A question for you sir.
Have you spent any time as a cat I golfer ?


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2011)

No.

And your point is?


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## chris661 (Sep 12, 2011)

No.

And your point is?
		
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I would imagine the point is cat 1 golfers very rarely win the normal run of the mill club comps.


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2011)

My point is if you had you wouldn't be defending the present system.
I think if you asked any number of Cat I golfers, not many would share your belief.

Every low h/cap golfer in the land knows what it takes to get that low and to see his/her chances of winning anything reduce the lower they get is just a farce. And to put the cherry on congu's cake, the bandits now get full h/cap in match play. 

You're now going to quote me congus famous myths...dont bother. You can make statistics say anything.

I only know that when I was off 2 h/cap, the only comp I stood a chance in winning ALL YEAR was the club champs and even then, the net prize was of more value than the gross.

I guess some playing fields are just more level than others.


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## oakey22 (Sep 12, 2011)

At our club we have 3 divisions, for the different cat golfers giving everyone equal chance


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2011)

I do understand how difficult it is to reach and maintain Cat 1 status, but thatâ€™s always going to be the nature of any handicapping system â€“ the best have to keep striving to remain the best whereas lesser mortals still have some scope for improvement..
Totally at random (honestly) I looked up the results of the latest â€œbog standardâ€ qualifier at a neighbouring club and show the top 8 places in Division 1:
Division 1 â€“ 1st 39 points (New Handicap 11.1, 2nd 38 (NH 9.8), 3rd 38 (NH 11.6), 4th 38 (NH 10.0), 5th 38 (NH 0.4), 6th 36 (NH  9.0), 7th 36 (NH 11.2), 8th 36 (NH 2.9)
So the 2 Cat 1 players were in with a shout â€“ granted that the Cat 2 players could probably identify more easily where they might have scraped another point or two.
Scoring in Divisions 2 and 3 was very similar with 40 points the best score of the day (Division 2).


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 12, 2011)

1. The committee should know best - remember they are voted in by the members.
2. General Play cuts can still be - and are - made but on solid evidence and not on knee-jerk reactions or because the player wants one.
3. The player is the best judge? Anarchy rules. We all know players who have an inflated idea of their own ability and would want a low handicap as a badge of honour (look at the proliferation of websites "awarding" handicaps based on the player's say so). The current system is the best available to give an objective assessment of a player's playing ability.
4.Players winning comps with stupid scores? That's up to the club to ensure, for example, that initial handicap awards are properly carried out.
5. The CONGU UHS isn't perfect but it's as good as we're likely to get - and it's only ever going to be as good as the people running it at club level - and if it's not being properly run at club level, then it's up to players to do something about it.
6. Check your blood pressure.
		
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Yep, I'd go along with most of that although I'm sure Bob's BP is fine  

Some interesting points made generally on here though, particularly about low handicappers and their apparent inability to win competitions.

At our club the competitions are structured so that you have to qualify for a final and then the 3 majors are 36 holes on the day, the rest 18. Our other two board comps are straight 18 holes. Winners handicaps this year are as follows:

17 (one off 18 hole comp),
4 (qualify then 36 final),
4 (qualify then 36 hole final),
6 (qualify then 36 hole final),
4 (one off 18 hole comp),
5 (qualify the 18 hole final)

All were different winners. Our summer matchplay knockout, played off full difference (obviously as this is both mandatory and correct) has again yielded finalists in single figures (3 and 5).

So...... unless we are some unbelievable statistical anomaly (and the above isn't unusual for our club), it would seem that the Cat 1 lads are doing fine under the CONGU system. Playing major comps over one round though is a lottery but many many clubs do this. Statistically the high handicapper is more likely to shoot a "silly score" but in the long term his inconsistency will let him down so one off comps are almost bound to result in a lot of higher handicap wins, especially in a larger field.


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## rosecott (Sep 12, 2011)

Bob
Just thought of a justification for your idea of allowing players to get a lower handicap by just asking the handicap committee nicely:
Ridiculous hypothetical situation â€“ 20 genuine 24-handicappers have their requests to be cut to 18 accepted. Next comp they all, as expected, fail to score SSS +2 or better. Result is that CSS becomes SSS +3 (Reductions Only). Further result â€“ all the genuine 20 and below handicappers are in with a good shout of getting a nice reduction.
Job done for those with genuine handicaps who want honest (ish) reductions.


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## bobmac (Sep 12, 2011)

Just thought of a justification for your idea of allowing players to get a lower handicap by just asking the handicap committee nicely:
		
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I'm sorry, I cant remember saying that.
I'm talking about golfers who feel their present h/cap doesn't reflect their current playing ability and hand in cards to prove it.
The original OP announced to his playing partners he wanted to hand in a supp card which he did and scored 5 under his h/cap off the white tees. Why on earth would he not be chopped for that. Rather than just asking nicely 

And can I ask you why you use a "Ridiculous hypothetical situation" to try and prove a point?


If a golfer wants to be cut as his current h/cap is too high, why not cut him.
The alternative is that the rest of the members of his club have no chance of winning anything until his h/cap is reduced to the correct level. That will win him alot of friends 

Golf and it's traditions are supposed to be based on 3 words
Honesty
Integrity 
Courtesy
If a golfer feels that the rules of Congu have not allowed him to compete in the spirit of the game then the rules of Congu are an ass.


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