# Big Problem with Sun Mountain H2NO bag



## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

I spent Â£220 - yes you read that right - on a 2014 Sun Mountain H2NO waterproof golf bag in February from Clubhouse Golf. I didn't use it until mid April. For those who know this bag, there is a "loop" at the top of the bag on the opposite side to the main handle. On one of the first few times I used it, I took hold of the bag by this "loop" to manoeuvre the bag in the boot of my 4x4 and it came away at one end from the bag. Thinking that this shouldn't happen with a Â£220 bag, I took it back to Clubhouse who sent it to Sun Mountain. I have received a call from Clubhouse this morning to say that Sun Mountain won't entertain my complaint because the loop isn't a handle!
To be clear, I have no issue with Clubhouse who have provided good service here. I do though have a serious problem with Sun Mountain and the quality of their product and customer service.
I have to go back to Clubhouse tomorrow to collect my bag and I will post pictures then to better illustrate the situation. in the meantime my advice to everyone is DON'T BUY A SUN MOUNTAIN BAG. Seemingly, when they fall to bits in the first couple of months, it's your problem.


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## Alex1975 (Jun 25, 2014)

What is the loop for then? Not that it really matters, you should be able to pick the thing up by the umbrella hoop and it not break in my opinion.


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## fundy (Jun 25, 2014)

Not quite sure which bit of the bag you mean, am waiting to see pics, but if you mean one of the 2 black rubber "handles" either side of the rim of the bag then I wouldnt be accepting their answer as they are clearly handles, no point for them being "open" if they are not


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## matt71 (Jun 25, 2014)

daft question and sorry to ask but why did the shop not just exchange it for you? had a problem not much diff' that your issue with a Callaway bag bought from AG. They just exchanged it there and then.  Good luck with sorting it out and remember that the bag has to be fit for purpose and there is the sale of good act stuff you could look into too.


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			What is the loop for then? Not that it really matters, you should be able to pick the thing up by the umbrella hoop and it not break in my opinion.
		
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Having looked on their website which only has the 2013 models on it, it has a "cart-strap-pass-through-panel".  I suppose this is what the loop is. I am not sure of the benefit of one of these is. It's not like the cart strap is going to come off without the panel being there. I would also question the wisdom of placing such a "panel" on the opposite side of the bag to where the main handle is -exactly where most cart bags have another handle.
Whilst I didn't actually use it as a handle to lift the bag, there was nothing to my recollection saying that it should not be used as a handle. Even then, I don't think most people, in everyday use, would think "the manufacturers said this isn't handle, so I mustn't use it as such". You would just grab the bag and go.
In my experience in business, these kind of issues are not worth the trouble. Fix the problem and keep the customer. In my humble opinion this is really shoddy from a company I always thought made good quality products. I thought they were better than this.


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## Slab (Jun 25, 2014)

It really only matters whether Clubhouse golf believe the loop/handle should have broken, its them you have a contract with. At the moment they are taking Sun Mountains view but they could just as easy disregard Sun Mountain assessment and replace it for you  

(they can then take the fight up with Sun Mountain as they see fit)


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

matt71 said:



			daft question and sorry to ask but why did the shop not just exchange it for you? had a problem not much diff' that your issue with a Callaway bag bought from AG. They just exchanged it there and then.  Good luck with sorting it out and remember that the bag has to be fit for purpose and there is the sale of good act stuff you could look into too.
		
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Not sure to be honest. They said they had to send it back and I was OK with it. I still have my previous Powakaddy bag I can use, so it wasn't an issue. Maybe they thought Sun Mountain would want to repair it, which would mean they couldn't sell it as new. A repair would have been OK with me. Or, maybe previous experience with Sun Mountain told them it was unlikely they would accept the complaint. Who knows?


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## CMAC (Jun 25, 2014)

your contract is with the shop not Sun Mountain. The retailer holds the warranty and contract with you, whatever the retailer does with his supplier afterwards is their concern and they have a duty and legal responsibility to repair or replace within the warranty.

Right, thats the legal bit, now if its just a small loop and not really worth anyones hassle is it worth all the aggro for you both, a quick McGuyver job and a sleeve of balls or 10% off next purchase as a goodwill gesture would probably suit everyone all round.


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## Alex1975 (Jun 25, 2014)

I have always thought they were the ugliest bags ever made but was well aware they are highly regarded and usually good customer service comes with quality. They could have at least fixed it for you?!!!


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## BTatHome (Jun 25, 2014)

To be honest in can't visualise what this loop is .... unless you mean the hard plastic hoops as I thought they were towel holder etc. can't imagine what would be on the opposite side of the handle, as surely that's the stand/leg side and putting a handle on there is a little weird.

Anyway, as stated I would be speaking to supplier and ignoring what sun mountain say. Obviously they have taken action with sun mountain already so it might be hard to get them to budge.


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## Alex1975 (Jun 25, 2014)

To my mind there is absolutely no millage in trying to park this at the retailers door when the maunufacture has already positioned this as miss-use. All the shop have to say is "you have abused this" and its game over. I do however think the manufacture should have just fixed it.


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## davidy233 (Jun 25, 2014)

Presume you mean you picked up a full bag by the umbrella holder loop - not sure why you'd do that when there are a very solid handle on the other side, two handles on the top and it comes with a strap too - I've never ever thought of picking up my H2NO by anything other the areas intended for me to do so.

Bought mine in April for Â£149 and not had any problems with it at all - only got it because I play in all weathers and it's been 100% waterproof so far


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## Alex1975 (Jun 25, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			Presume you mean you picked up a full bag by the umbrella holder loop - not sure why you'd do that when there are a very solid handle on the other side, two handles on the top and it comes with a strap too - I've never ever thought of picking up my H2NO by anything other the areas intended for me to do so.

Bought mine in April for Â£149 and not had any problems with it at all - only got it because I play in all weathers and it's been 100% waterproof so far
		
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You may wish to read the whole thread.


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## davidy233 (Jun 25, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			You may wish to read the whole thread.
		
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So you didn't lift it by the handle - but 'maneuvered' it into position in the boot of your 4x4?


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## chellie (Jun 25, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			Presume you mean you picked up a full bag by the umbrella holder loop - not sure why you'd do that when there are a very solid handle on the other side, two handles on the top and it comes with a strap too - I've never ever thought of picking up my H2NO by anything other the areas intended for me to do so.
		
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How I read it as well. Do you mean the little loop shown here http://www.sunmountain.com/waterproof-series/2014-h2no-cart-lite-bag-4900-detail.html


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## Alex1975 (Jun 25, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			So you didn't lift it by the handle - but 'maneuvered' it into position in the boot of your 4x4?
		
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Not my post but the OP does say what he lifted it by and its not the umbrella holder.


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## davidy233 (Jun 25, 2014)

Alex1975 said:



			Not my post but the OP does say what he lifted it by and its not the umbrella holder.
		
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Ah I understand now - as the handle is on the top of the bag while on a trolley (or if a carry bag while on stand) then the loop is on the bottom


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## the smiling assassin (Jun 25, 2014)

Sweep said:



			I spent Â£220 - yes you read that right - on a 2014 Sun Mountain H2NO waterproof golf bag in February from Clubhouse Golf. I didn't use it until mid April.
		
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Who buys a bag in Feb and doesn't use it until mid-April, is this a wind-up?!!!


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## Hacker Khan (Jun 25, 2014)

Sweep said:



			I spent Â£220 - yes you read that right - on a 2014 Sun Mountain H2NO waterproof golf bag in February from Clubhouse Golf. I didn't use it until mid April. For those who know this bag, there is a "loop" at the top of the bag on the opposite side to the main handle. On one of the first few times I used it, I took hold of the bag by this "loop" to manoeuvre the bag in the boot of my 4x4 and it came away at one end from the bag. Thinking that this shouldn't happen with a Â£220 bag, I took it back to Clubhouse who sent it to Sun Mountain. I have received a call from Clubhouse this morning to say that Sun Mountain won't entertain my complaint because the loop isn't a handle!
To be clear, I have no issue with Clubhouse who have provided good service here. I do though have a serious problem with Sun Mountain and the quality of their product and customer service.
I have to go back to Clubhouse tomorrow to collect my bag and I will post pictures then to better illustrate the situation. in the meantime my advice to everyone is DON'T BUY A SUN MOUNTAIN BAG. Seemingly, when they fall to bits in the first couple of months, it's your problem.
		
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That's utterly shocking! 

Â£220 for a golf bag!


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## USER1999 (Jun 25, 2014)

have the 2013 version, and have broken this too. Direct golf just replaced it, no quibbles. I still use it as a handle though, it's convenient.can't really see what else it's for.


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## Stuey01 (Jun 25, 2014)

If it's not a handle, did they shed any light in what the hell it is?
Because it sure looks like one.


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

chellie said:



			How I read it as well. Do you mean the little loop shown here http://www.sunmountain.com/waterproof-series/2014-h2no-cart-lite-bag-4900-detail.html

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That's it. The bit with the Sun Mountain logo on.
You are obviously better than me at posting pictures


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

the smiling assassin said:



			Who buys a bag in Feb and doesn't use it until mid-April, is this a wind-up?!!!
		
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Lol. I carry in winter and bought this cart bag for use in summer. Waterproof and hasn't rained when I have been using it... Not that I am tempting fate.


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

Hacker Khan said:



			That's utterly shocking! 

Â£220 for a golf bag!  

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Tell me about it. a fool and his money...


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			Ah I understand now - as the handle is on the top of the bag while on a trolley (or if a carry bag while on stand) then the loop is on the bottom
		
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No. It's the "panel" at the top of the bag on the opposite side of the bag from the main handle. In this case it would be at the top of the bag facing out wards when on a trolley. I will post pics tomorrow and all will become clear.
in all honesty I cannot imagine that anyone who has one of these bags has not used it as a handle at some point.


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## Stuey01 (Jun 25, 2014)

Sweep said:



			That's it. The bit with the Sun Mountain logo on.
You are obviously better than me at posting pictures 

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Oh, that's not what I thought you meant when I said it looks like a handle. I thought you meant the grab handle bit at the very top on the bag.


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## davidy233 (Jun 25, 2014)

Sweep said:



			No. It's the "panel" at the top of the bag on the opposite side of the bag from the main handle. In this case it would be at the top of the bag facing out wards when on a trolley. I will post pics tomorrow and all will become clear.
in all honesty I cannot imagine that anyone who has one of these bags has not used it as a handle at some point.
		
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On my bag there's two - one for umbrella further back and that one - think it's for a towel or bag tag - I've never thought of using anything but the real handles which are pretty solid


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## Stuart_C (Jun 25, 2014)

I'm very surprised at Sun Mountain, I've only had 1dealing with them  and they sorted my bag in no time..

I ( through AG) had  to contact Sun Mountain a few weeks ago when 1 of the legs fell off My h2n0 stand bag, they sent me a new set of legs that just screw onto the bag within 3days of taking it back to AG.

Superb service and couldn't of been happier tbh.


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## el marko (Jun 25, 2014)

I wouldnt expect that handle to loop on A Â£10 bag let alone this one. Was it the stitching that failed?


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## TheJezster (Jun 25, 2014)

I've got to say, after looking at the photo of the little plastic loop and realising that's what you were talking about, I'm on the manufacturers side. It's not a handle and you broke it. It's not integral to the bag and won't have an impact on the bag itself. Personally, I'd get over it. You can't blame anyone else for that and certainly don't think you should expect them to replace it.


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## chrisg (Jun 25, 2014)

TheJezster said:



			I've got to say, after looking at the photo of the little plastic loop and realising that's what you were talking about, I'm on the manufacturers side. It's not a handle and you broke it. It's not integral to the bag and won't have an impact on the bag itself. Personally, I'd get over it. You can't blame anyone else for that and certainly don't think you should expect them to replace it.
		
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i dont think he's taking about the little plastic loop (towel hanger) I think its the bit to the left of that - described as a "panel" that you get get your hand behind.


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## NorfolkShaun (Jun 25, 2014)

If you mean the flat bit on the front that the bag strap passes through this should be fine for lifting imho.

My old Ping bag had one of these and I always used it for lifting / dragging in and out of my car with no issues.

Have to admit was thinking of the staff cart bag as a special treat for my 40th early next year but may think again now this sounds pretty awful service to me.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2014)

Have you considered talking to Sun Mountain directly and seeing what they say. Ultimately though your beef should be with AG as that is who your "contract" is with as they sold the bag


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## richart (Jun 25, 2014)

Mate of mine had a Sun Mountain carry bag, not sure of the model, and the grab handle around the top ripped off. He took it back to our Pro who said he would do what he could. The bag was well over a year old, but the problem seemed to be a design fault, as the latest model had a different handle.

Last week he got the latest model as a replacement. I am sure it is our Pro's intervention. My mate was very impressed especially as he is still using the old bag, and will keep the new one for later. 

I had a similar problem with a travel bag which ripped around the handle. It was only a cheap one, but my Pro got me a top of the range Callaway one as a replacement. It is enormous and is known as the body bag amongst my mates. Perhaps it is sometimes better to buy through your Pro, than online.


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## chellie (Jun 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have you considered talking to Sun Mountain directly and seeing what they say. Ultimately though your beef should be with AG as that is who your "contract" is with as they sold the bag
		
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He'd have problems with AG sorting it out as he didn't buy it from them


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## BTatHome (Jun 25, 2014)

chellie said:



			He'd have problems with AG sorting it out as he didn't buy it from them

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Hahaha, homer your AG hatred coming through again


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2014)

chellie said:



			He'd have problems with AG sorting it out as he didn't buy it from them

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BTatHome said:



			Hahaha, homer your AG hatred coming through again 

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If you are going to have a sly dig, make sure the comments are attributed to me. My thoughts on AG are well known but innocent in tis case of anything negative to say about them


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## fundy (Jun 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have you considered talking to Sun Mountain directly and seeing what they say. Ultimately though your beef should be with AG as that is who your "contract" is with as they sold the bag
		
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He bought from clubhouse!


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 25, 2014)

Me bad. Apologies


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

TheJezster said:



			I've got to say, after looking at the photo of the little plastic loop and realising that's what you were talking about, I'm on the manufacturers side. It's not a handle and you broke it. It's not integral to the bag and won't have an impact on the bag itself. Personally, I'd get over it. You can't blame anyone else for that and certainly don't think you should expect them to replace it.
		
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Fair enough, as long as we are talking about the right part of the bag. This is not the towel ring. It is a "strap" with the Sun Mountain logo on it, fixed at both ends to the bag, with room to slip your hand under and lift the bag. It is integral to the bag. As others have said, if it's not a handle, it certainly looks like one.


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

davidy233 said:



			On my bag there's two - one for umbrella further back and that one - think it's for a towel or bag tag - I've never thought of using anything but the real handles which are pretty solid
		
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There are two grab handles at the very top of the bag. Unfortunately these are covered by the rain cover top if you put it on to stop your clubs banging about in the back of your car as I do.


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

el marko said:



			I wouldnt expect that handle to loop on A Â£10 bag let alone this one. Was it the stitching that failed?
		
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I think it was the stitching that failed, yes.


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

NorfolkShaun said:



			If you mean the flat bit on the front that the bag strap passes through this should be fine for lifting imho.

My old Ping bag had one of these and I always used it for lifting / dragging in and out of my car with no issues.

Have to admit was thinking of the staff cart bag as a special treat for my 40th early next year but may think again now this sounds pretty awful service to me.
		
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That is exactly the part in question. The bag strap passes underneath it for some reason.


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## Sweep (Jun 25, 2014)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Have you considered talking to Sun Mountain directly and seeing what they say. Ultimately though your beef should be with AG as that is who your "contract" is with as they sold the bag
		
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On the phone Clubhouse offered to provide their Head Office email address for me to ask them to take it further. I asked if they would give me Sun Mountain's contact details and they said they would, so I guess I will get all the info tomorrow when I collect my bag. I will send emails and see what happens, but I don't think the customer should have to go through all this. All I did was buy a premium bag. If this was one of my products I would have it sorted immediately. I wouldn't want anyone dissatisfied with anything they bought from me or indeed anything with my company name on it. As I say, I thought Sun Mountain were a quality company with good products and a fine reputation. I was wrong.


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## BTatHome (Jun 26, 2014)

Sweep said:



*All I did was buy a premium bag*. If this was one of my products I would have it sorted immediately. I wouldn't want anyone dissatisfied with anything they bought from me or indeed anything with my company name on it. As I say, I thought Sun Mountain were a quality company with good products and a fine reputation. I was wrong.
		
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Well to be honest, you bought a premium bag and then decided to lug it around using something that isn't a handle.


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## Coatsy79 (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm sorry but, yes it's NOT a handle, but I wouldn't expect the cart strap cover to break off in my hand if all I did was wiggle it about in my car, especially on a bag that's over Â£200 in value

What if it broke when/if your cart happened to fall over, if it can take a jiggle in a car it's not gonna take a topple on a cart either and that's not good


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## Sweep (Jun 26, 2014)

BTatHome said:



			Well to be honest, you bought a premium bag and then decided to lug it around using something that isn't a handle.
		
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Slightly unfair I think. Nowhere does it say it isn't a handle and it certainly looks like one. The fact that it is the perfect size to fit your hand through compounds the problem and makes nonsense of their claim that it is a cart strap pass through panel. I have never seen a cart strap anything like that wide. And I didn't "lug it around". The bag was in the boot of my 4x4, lying on the floor, unfortunately with the panel side facing me. I pulled the bag towards me by holding the panel.
No worries though. You are entitled to your opinion and I didn't expect everyone to agree with me.


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## duncan mackie (Jun 26, 2014)

Sweep said:



			Slightly unfair I think. Nowhere does it say it isn't a handle and it certainly looks like one. The fact that it is the perfect size to fit your hand through compounds the problem and makes nonsense of their claim that it is a cart strap pass through panel. I have never seen a cart strap anything like that wide. And I didn't "lug it around". The bag was in the boot of my 4x4, lying on the floor, unfortunately with the panel side facing me. I pulled the bag towards me by holding the panel.
No worries though. You are entitled to your opinion and I didn't expect everyone to agree with me.
		
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couple of small points - 

1. your comment re it being nonsense that it's what they claim it to be is actually the nonsense - not all cart straps are positioned at the same height; by having it slightly wider than the strap they provide an appropriate degree of latitude to cover this and keep the strap flat on the bag minimising potential wear.
2. you can bring significantly more force to bear on something like this in the circumstances you describe than in just lifting the bag.

However, the only issue is that you (not me) aren't happy with what happened, and the companies subsequent responses. I hope you get satisfaction in the end.


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## Sweep (Jun 26, 2014)

Here you go. This is the "panel" in question. I would guess it is 11cm (just over 4") top to bottom.
Maybe is just me, but it looks like a handle and it is where you would expect a handle to be.


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## Keyser Soze (Jun 26, 2014)

Is this the bit your talking about (I'm confused) I always thought it was for tucking the "other end" of the golf towel away ?!


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## davidy233 (Jun 26, 2014)

To be fair to the original poster that loop is exactly where the (decent) handle is on my 2012 model which you can still buy at Â£149.99 - and also where I'd expect a handle on a cart bag to be.

http://www.sunmountaingolf.co.uk/product.php/326/sun-mountain-2012-h2n0-staff-waterproof-cart-bag-yellow-charcoal


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## sev112 (Jun 26, 2014)

To be fair to Sun Mountain, their web page for this item describes it as a cart strap thingy, and the video actually shows it and refers to it as the cart strap thingy.

Short of giving you a Users' Manual with health and safety advice such as "don't pick up a full golf bag with the cart strap thingy" , then I'm not sure whatbtheybare supposed to do.

But then I've found Sun Mountain to be fabulous in customer care to date, so maybe I'm biased.

However I'm not sue your example is a fair basis for deriding either their products or their reputation - they have good products and a good reputation.


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## LinksTurf (Jun 26, 2014)

Interestingly I have a very similar flap on my Bennington QO-07 bag. I bought it instore in 2007 and asked the retailer what the flap was for at the time. He had no idea and there was nothing on their website or the bag itself to enlighten me. Anyway, I've used it as a handle (assuming it was one) to get the bag in and out of my boot for 7 years with no problem. It looks now from this discussion as if it is a pass through for the cart strap! You live and learn!


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## big_eck (Jun 26, 2014)

My Taylor made juggernaut bag has the same kinda bit and I lift it by that all the time, well I did until I had a mosey through this


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## Sweep (Jun 27, 2014)

sev112 said:



			To be fair to Sun Mountain, their web page for this item describes it as a cart strap thingy, and the video actually shows it and refers to it as the cart strap thingy.

Short of giving you a Users' Manual with health and safety advice such as "don't pick up a full golf bag with the cart strap thingy" , then I'm not sure whatbtheybare supposed to do.

But then I've found Sun Mountain to be fabulous in customer care to date, so maybe I'm biased.

However I'm not sue your example is a fair basis for deriding either their products or their reputation - they have good products and a good reputation.
		
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I absolutely agree with your point about a users manual. By the same token, do we all have to watch a video online now to learn how to use a cart bag? My feeling is, if it isn't a handle, don't make it look like a handle and don't place it where a handle usually goes. If you are going to do that, then you have to make it clear it's not a handle or expect complaints.
To be honest, I am not really sure about the usefulness of a cart strap pass through panel. A cart strap is tight by nature of it keeping the bag on the cart, so I am not sure what purpose it serves other than decorative.
As for me deriding their products, I guess you take as you find. I always thought they had a good reputation and made good products. Sadly my one encounter with their products and customer service has proved otherwise. On that basis I think I am being entirely fair. I am glad that you have experienced better service though.


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## North Mimms (Jun 27, 2014)

Sweep said:



			I absolutely agree with your point about a users manual. By the same token, do we all have to watch a video online now to learn how to use a cart bag?* My feeling is, if it isn't a handle, don't make it look like a handle and don't place it where a handle usually goes. If you are going to do that, then you have to make it clear it's not a handle or expect complaints.*
To be honest, I am not really sure about the usefulness of a cart strap pass through panel. A cart strap is tight by nature of it keeping the bag on the cart, so I am not sure what purpose it serves other than decorative.
As for me deriding their products, I guess you take as you find. I always thought they had a good reputation and made good products. Sadly my one encounter with their products and customer service has proved otherwise. On that basis I think I am being entirely fair. I am glad that you have experienced better service though.
		
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Looks like a duck.
Sounds like a duck.

But it's a aardvark


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## chellie (Jun 27, 2014)

I've checked HID's Ping cart bag following this thread and that also has the "cart strap". Information found online. Looks like an additional grab handle to me in real life.


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## Coatsy79 (Jun 27, 2014)

My oakley bag has a similar thing and I jiggle it about with that all the time 

It the bit with the oakley "O" on it in this pic


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## Hobbit (Jun 27, 2014)

The strap is common on several makes of bags, and is there to support the bag when its on a trolley or buggy. In other words it should take the weight of the bag on occasion. In this instance it didn't take the weight of the bag... may be splitting hairs but I'd say its a product failure.

Have a similar strap on my Cobra bag, and is often used when picking the bag up - no problems.

Maybe include a link to this thread in your email to Sun Mountain and ask them if they'd like the negative perception to change?


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## Sweep (Jun 27, 2014)

It gets worse.
I went back to Clubhouse today to collect my bag. As promised they gave the the email address for their returns dept and they gave me a phone number for Sun Mountain in the UK. I called the number to ask for an email address. The phone was answered "Hello." No Sun Mountain or any company name. I asked for an email address so I could register a complaint and was asked what I was complaining about. I explained as best I could and the chap at the other end disagreed with my interpretation that this could be mistaken for a handle. He also explained that they were just a UK customer interface and that any decision on a complaint could only be handled by the main distributor in Europe. When I asked for the Europe email address he said they didn't have a "customer facing email address". He said I had two choices. I could either email them in the UK or Sun Mountain in the US. Either way my email would be passed to the European distributors.
I have emailed both the UK and the US and asked them to reconsider my complaint. I have also emailed Clubhouse returns dept and asked them to take this up on my behalf. I have also asked them who exactly rejected my complaint. As Clubhouse dealt with everything within 3 working days, I can't really think that my bag has gone back to Europe, inspected and returned. I may be wrong. If it's gone back to Sun Mountain in the UK, they have already said they can't consider complaints.
In the meantime, here is a pic of the offending article. Still looks like a handle to me...


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## Sweep (Jun 27, 2014)

It's not looking good.
Clubhouse have replied and said that Sun Mountain have rejected the claim as they cannot resolve it under the warranty conditions. Clubhouse say that my contract is with them. Sun Mountain are refusing to do anything, so Clubhouse can't do anything either. I have replied asking if that means they are not prepared to fight a little harder for their customer. We will see what they say.


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## sev112 (Jun 27, 2014)

I've had a trawl through my emails to see if I could find out who dealt with me a year or so back, but I must have deleted that far back

I hope it gets sorted for you though


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## Albanach (Jun 27, 2014)

Too wide to be a handle IMO but that wouldn't stop me moving it in my boot with it but you must have given it a bloody good lift or have a lot of gear in your bag for it to break. Would a good cobbler not be able to repair it for you?
I have dealt with guys at rsmg sales previously and found them to be excellent and very helpful. When I called them they answered the phone with hello rather than some long company name but thought nothing of it.


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## Blue in Munich (Jun 27, 2014)

You don't appear to have a big problem with Sun Mountain, you appear to have a big problem with Clubhouse;

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product

As others have said and the Which link says, your recourse is with the retailer.  If the retailer initially agreed it was defective they should have replaced it, but they appear to be hiding behind Sun Mountain's skirts and getting no small measure of praise from you whilst you slag off Sun Mountain.

For mine it's nothing like a handle, it's far too wide & has no substance to it.


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## Sweep (Jun 27, 2014)

sev112 said:



			I've had a trawl through my emails to see if I could find out who dealt with me a year or so back, but I must have deleted that far back

I hope it gets sorted for you though
		
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Cheers. Thanks for trying.


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## Sweep (Jun 27, 2014)

Blue in Munich said:



			You don't appear to have a big problem with Sun Mountain, you appear to have a big problem with Clubhouse;

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product

As others have said and the Which link says, your recourse is with the retailer.  If the retailer initially agreed it was defective they should have replaced it, but they appear to be hiding behind Sun Mountain's skirts and getting no small measure of praise from you whilst you slag off Sun Mountain.

For mine it's nothing like a handle, it's far too wide & has no substance to it.
		
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I have no doubt that my contract is with Clubhouse and I am worried that they have just accepted Sun Mountain's rejection of the complaint without question. I do have some sympathy though, as they didn't make the bag. I can also see that if Sun Mountain won't do anything then Clubhouse will be out of pocket if they replace the bag. That said, if it was my company, I would keep the customer happy, replace the product and send the manufacturer a debit note. Clubhouse holds much more sway than I do with Sun Mountain. I only bought one bag.
i am concerned about the mysterious and all powerful  European distributor that I am not allowed to contact or even know their name. I only wanted to let them know my concern over their refusal to do anything and ask them to reconsider, just in case Clubhouse weren't putting my case strongly enough.
As for the strap, you can easily grip your hand around it and I actually thought the rubbery thing on the front was to enhance your grip. As it's on the outside of the cart strap pass through panel, I can't actually see what purpose it serves.


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## Sweep (Jun 27, 2014)

Albanach said:



			Too wide to be a handle IMO but that wouldn't stop me moving it in my boot with it but you must have given it a bloody good lift or have a lot of gear in your bag for it to break. Would a good cobbler not be able to repair it for you?
I have dealt with guys at rsmg sales previously and found them to be excellent and very helpful. When I called them they answered the phone with hello rather than some long company name but thought nothing of it.
		
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That's the thing. I didn't give it a big pull at all. A very good point made by a forumer on here was that if it came away that easily, it probably wouldn't have held my bag on the cart anyway, which apparently is what it was supposed to do.
I guess a good cobbler could fix it but I think the manufacturer should really put it right. Alternatively, I am sure a good pull on the other end of the panel will remove it all together.
I can't remember ever complaining about anything before and the whole thing has left a bit of a nasty taste. I feel like dumping it at the tip.


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## North Mimms (Jun 28, 2014)

Sweep said:



			That's the thing. I didn't give it a big pull at all. A very good point made by a forumer on here was that if it came away that easily, it probably wouldn't have held my bag on the cart anyway, which apparently is what it was supposed to do.
I guess a good cobbler could fix it but I think the manufacturer should really put it right. Alternatively, I am sure a good pull on the other end of the panel will remove it all together.
I can't remember ever complaining about anything before and the whole thing has left a bit of a nasty taste.* I feel like dumping it at the tip*.
		
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Don't do that...I'll take it off your hands.

Why not email a link to this thread to Sun mountain?
They won't like the negative image their company is portraying.

REcently I had a customer service issue with a broadband provider and was getting nowhere ringing them.
A couple of days of repeated use of their name on Twitter (with relevant hashtag and @address) got the desired response.
Twitter is far too public for companies to ignore if a customer is unhappy


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## Keyser Soze (Jun 28, 2014)

I can't help but feel that Sun Mountain (and/or Clubhouse) would reject your claim on the basis that there is such an obvious handle only a few inches above the sleeve (or whatever you want to call it).


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## Sweep (Jun 28, 2014)

Keyser Soze said:



			I can't help but feel that Sun Mountain (and/or Clubhouse) would reject your claim on the basis that there is such an obvious handle only a few inches above the sleeve (or whatever you want to call it).
		
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They are rejecting my claim in the basis that it isn't covered under the warrenty as it has been used as a handle when it wasn't designed as such. 
However, having used the bag today in the rain, when it came to take the bag off the cart at the end of the round, when the rain hood is on you simply have to grab this panel to take the cart off the bag. There is nothing else to take hold of. The main handles are under the rain hood, as they were when I moved the bag when the strap became detached.
It seems to me almost every bag has a forward facing handle, including those made by Sun Mountain.


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## Sweep (Jun 28, 2014)

North Mimms said:



			Don't do that...I'll take it off your hands.

Why not email a link to this thread to Sun mountain?
They won't like the negative image their company is portraying.

REcently I had a customer service issue with a broadband provider and was getting nowhere ringing them.
A couple of days of repeated use of their name on Twitter (with relevant hashtag and @address) got the desired response.
Twitter is far too public for companies to ignore if a customer is unhappy
		
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A chap at work tweeted something about having trouble getting milk at Tesco and within half an hour he had received a tweet from Tesco, making sure he had got his milk OK. Social media is a big thing for big companies now. I am sure they employ people just to search for their name on Twitter etc.
Interestingly, when I had the conversation with the chap from Sun Mountain in the UK ( well their customer interface) when he disagreed with my interpretation that it was a handle, I mentioned that I had been discussing it on a golf forum and most but not all responders disagreed with him. He suddenly got very stroppy and told me not to threaten him. I assured him I wasn't threatening anyone. I only phoned to ask for an email address.


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## HomerJSimpson (Jun 28, 2014)

Done the same thing on twitter with Debenhams and Talk Talk to resolve huge customer service issues relating to the move into the new house. Like others it worked a dream and strangely where there was intransigence before, within hours a solution could be found along with an apology. I'd be getting on there now mention the retailer and Sun Mountain and maybe a link to the thread.


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## North Mimms (Jun 29, 2014)

Sweep said:



			A chap at work tweeted something about having trouble getting milk at Tesco and within half an hour he had received a tweet from Tesco, making sure he had got his milk OK. Social media is a big thing for big companies now. I am sure they employ people just to search for their name on Twitter etc.
Interestingly, when I had the conversation with the chap from Sun Mountain in the UK ( well their customer interface) when he disagreed with my interpretation that it was a handle, I mentioned that I had been discussing it on a golf forum and most but not all responders disagreed with him. He suddenly got very stroppy and told me not to threaten him. I assured him I wasn't threatening anyone. I only phoned to ask for an email address.
		
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If you are going to use Twitter, just put some thought into how you word your tweet. I believe Twitter is covered by same libel laws as printed material (but harder to police). Give them the opportunity to turn an unhappy customer into a happy one


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## Ethan (Jun 29, 2014)

There seems to be quite a bit of pig headedness going on from both Clubhouse and Sun Mountain.

As far as Clubhouse are concerned, you couldn't care less what Sun Mountain say, because they carry the liability under UK law and right now their reputation for helpfulness and customer service is heading south. I wouldn't buy something from them having seen this thread. 

Sun Mountain seem to be placing a great deal of store on their determination that this panel is not a handle. Now, they can call it a budgie rest station if they like, what matters is what a reasonable court would consider is reasonable use of the panel, and I strongly suspect they would find for you.

I suggest the OP takes a small claims court action against Clubhouse, with full coverage here. I anticipate it doesn't get that far and a new bag appears. 

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview


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## stevelev (Jun 29, 2014)

Sweep said:



			I absolutely agree with your point about a users manual. By the same token, do we all have to watch a video online now to learn how to use a cart bag? My feeling is, if it isn't a handle, don't make it look like a handle and don't place it where a handle usually goes. If you are going to do that, then you have to make it clear it's not a handle or expect complaints.
To be honest, I am not really sure about the usefulness of a cart strap pass through panel. A cart strap is tight by nature of it keeping the bag on the cart, so I am not sure what purpose it serves other than decorative.
As for me deriding their products, I guess you take as you find. I always thought they had a good reputation and made good products. Sadly my one encounter with their products and customer service has proved otherwise. On that basis I think I am being entirely fair. I am glad that you have experienced better service though.
		
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Looking at that, and then ay ALL other bag designs. ALL other manufacturers expect the strap for the cart to sit slightly higher so it does not compress the top part of the side pockets.

I would ask the local rep to call in on you and demonstrate the bag set up on a trolley next to a motocaddy / powercaddy, stewart or any other.  They might make waterproof bags but the are not ergonomic or sensible and quality in their structure or fabrication.

I have the carry bag and the straps are garbage, even when it really pours down, due to the design of the hood water can get in through the securing points.

I wont be buying Sum Mountain again, a bit like their Ryder Cup waterproofs to be honest

I would also send Sunmountain a link to their UK site see below, there is no indication on the site that it is for a cart strap to pass through.  Here is the link for you

http://www.sunmountaingolf.co.uk/product.php/330/sun-mountain-h2n0-waterproof-staff-cart-bag-lime-white-2014-model

As a good Samaritan I have emailed Sun Mountain in the states letting them know of the Suppliers and Sellers in the UK and also of this thread and how it is part of the UK's biggest and best golf forum.


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## Sweep (Jun 30, 2014)

stevelev said:



			Looking at that, and then ay ALL other bag designs. ALL other manufacturers expect the strap for the cart to sit slightly higher so it does not compress the top part of the side pockets.

I would ask the local rep to call in on you and demonstrate the bag set up on a trolley next to a motocaddy / powercaddy, stewart or any other.  They might make waterproof bags but the are not ergonomic or sensible and quality in their structure or fabrication.

I have the carry bag and the straps are garbage, even when it really pours down, due to the design of the hood water can get in through the securing points.

I wont be buying Sum Mountain again, a bit like their Ryder Cup waterproofs to be honest

I would also send Sunmountain a link to their UK site see below, there is no indication on the site that it is for a cart strap to pass through.  Here is the link for you

http://www.sunmountaingolf.co.uk/pr...terproof-staff-cart-bag-lime-white-2014-model

As a good Samaritan I have emailed Sun Mountain in the states letting them know of the Suppliers and Sellers in the UK and also of this thread and how it is part of the UK's biggest and best golf forum.
		
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That is brilliant. thanks for your help!


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## Sweep (Jul 2, 2014)

I have just received a telephone call and email from Clubhouse Golf. They say that Sun Mountain are still refusing to accept responsibility for this issue, even though Clubhouse have received a number of similar complaints about this strap.
To their credit Clubhouse have agreed to replace the bag and I guess they will continue to argue the point with Sun Mountain.
So all things considered, whilst I wish I hadn't had to go through any of this, Clubhouse get a big thumbs up from me and I will buy from them with confidence in the future.
As for Sun Mountain, well it's the last thing I will ever touch from them. Even the UK email address they provided me with has bounced back. I am not sure if the US office ever got my emails. They certainly didn't respond, not even with a courtesy "thank you for your email" message.


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## Beezerk (Jul 2, 2014)

Result mate.
Moral of the story, lie next time


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## LinksTurf (Jul 2, 2014)

Good to hear Sweep. I have to say I was considering buying a waterproof bag and the H2NO was one I was looking at. I won't be considering Sun Mountain now however, so ultimately poor customer service such as this from the manufacturer costs them sales.


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## Albanach (Jul 2, 2014)

Try this as I've had email conversations through this with Sun Mountain: sales@rsmg.eu
On the flip side of Sweeps experience I've found them to be excellent to deal with and the bag (H2NO Stand) excellent.


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## LanDog (Jul 2, 2014)

Good that it has been resolved

I got an Oakley stand bag at Christmas, left it at home when I went back to university and planned to put it back into play over the summer, I went to play Foyle GC last Friday and just. Coincidentally the Golf Store Europe there was where I got it from, as I was heading to the range beside the shop I noticed a tear on one of the shoulder straps, went into the shop and just explained to the guy that this was the first time it had been outside my bedroom since Christmas time, and if I could get store credit or something to replace it with.

The guy in the store, Rob was very understanding and even let me use the bag for my round and everything before returning it. 

Left the bag with them on Friday, by Monday, Oakley had got back to them and issued the store credit.


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## Slab (Jul 2, 2014)

Glad you got a result and have to admire your continued support and admiration for Clubhouse even when you know its been their responsibility all along

I guess we don't really know how much Clubhouse will be out of pocket. Things like a retailer returns policy (or lack of) and manufacture after sales support for a retailer, are all considered when retailers agree the purchase price that they buy stock in at, so for all we know Clubhouse might get a really good cost price in a deal that says they also absorb the costs of any customer returns!    

My thoughts on the break. Does it look like a carry strap? not a bit. Would I use it as one as you did, probably yes


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## HomerJSimpson (Jul 2, 2014)

Big thumbs up to clubhousegolf. I've used them many times and never had any issues. Top rate company


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## dufferman (Jul 2, 2014)

I think we've all learnt here that, if there is an issue / breakage / problem with a product, don't delve into how or why it broke, just tell them it's not how it should be! If you'd have never said about the fact you used the (in their eyes) 'wrong' part to carry it, they might have looked at it differently. Similar to slamming your brakes on and someone going into you, then you get out the car and say "I just wasn't paying attention"... they'll latch onto it to avoid it being their fault!!

I would certainly take to twitter and let all your followers know of the mishap - and any friends or fellow forumers with a golf blog could possibly link to this thread and talk about the power of the buyer and how public opinion is so vital in such a competitive market like Golf retail.

Especially since Clubhouse have told you this is an issue that Sun Mountain know about!!

After seeing the whole GolfBuyItOnline thread on here (which got deleted unfortunately) I am now fully against ever using them. I often see their website pop up when I do searches online for golf bits, and would never even visit the site let alone take a chance on it for buying. And if someone asked me my opinion on them as a company...!!

The power of t'internet eh?


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## DaveM (Jul 2, 2014)

Must admit I was in the market for a bag and trolley. Guess I know what not to buy.


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## Rumpokid (Jul 2, 2014)

Have a sun mountain H2N0, and the rubber grab handles at the top do not seem to be the best.Manage them by being easy on the bag,but think it is only a matter of time before one pops.


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