# So is it good news for Brexit?



## Alex1975 (Nov 10, 2016)

Trump is not a very nice man but... Did he say that the UK would be front of the queue for a trade deal with the US?

Could we get a quickie deal with Canada and the US before the EU get their ducks in a row?

As I say, as a person I would not wish Trump on anyone but this could be good for us right?


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 10, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Trump is not a very nice man but... Did he say that the UK would be front of the queue for a trade deal with the US?

Could we get a quickie deal with Canada and the US before the EU get their ducks in a row?

As I say, as a person I would not wish Trump on anyone but this could be good for us right?
		
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I wouldn't have thought they'd be so great if his policies are protectionist.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 10, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			I wouldn't have thought they'd be so great if his policies are protectionist.
		
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I read this 4 times and still can`t make out what your saying?


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## Kellfire (Nov 10, 2016)

Another new thread on Brexit and Trump? :/


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## Alex1975 (Nov 10, 2016)

Kellfire said:



			Another new thread on Brexit and Trump? :/
		
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Its a specific questions or questions about trade deals with the US and UK.


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## FairwayDodger (Nov 10, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Trump is not a very nice man but... Did he say that the UK would be front of the queue for a trade deal with the US?

Could we get a quickie deal with Canada and the US before the EU get their ducks in a row?

As I say, as a person I would not wish Trump on anyone but this could be good for us right?
		
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Truthfully, I think nobody knows!

One of the problems with Trump is that he says whatever suits him in the moment without any concern for truth or having to live up to any promises. So on the one hand he said the UK would go to the front of the queue, but on the other hand he's for cancelling trade deals altogether.

FWIW my guess is that it's unfortunate timing for us. Leaving the EU only makes some sense if we can retain/establish better international links directly however the country we are arguably "closest" to is lurching in a direction that, at best, will make us uncomfortable.  

Time will tell!


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 10, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			I read this 4 times and still can`t make out what your saying?
		
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If we believe what Trump has been saying, then he will create jobs and wealth for the poorer through only agreeing trade deals that are good for America - and will impose significant import tariffs if the commodity could be home-produced.  Now it may be that Trump views the UK through rose coloured glasses, when he sees the rest of the world through a glass darkly, and we *will* be at the front of the queue.  Maybe.


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## FairwayDodger (Nov 10, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			If we believe what Trump has been saying, then he will create jobs and wealth for the poorer through only agreeing trade deals that are good for America - and will significant impose import tariffs if the commodity could be home-produced.  Now it may be that Trump views the UK through rose coloured glasses, when he sees the rest of the world through a glass darkly.  Maybe.
		
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I think unpredictability may define US policy for a few years!


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## freddielong (Nov 10, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			I read this 4 times and still can`t make out what your saying?
		
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I believe he is saying that most of Trumps policy appears to be about protecting the US and furthering the US s interests, it doesn't sound like someone who is going to be overly generous to other countries needs.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 10, 2016)

Yep, agree with all of that so far. And in a way, rightly so. US politics should be about the US for a moment. I guess I was just trying to feel out what might be in it for us.

That he has some UK businesses might help...?!


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## RGDave (Nov 10, 2016)

In reality, from the sounds of it so far, there's only going to be one-way traffic. 

Every single person in the US owes nearly Â£50,000 to the rest of the world. They can't pay it back, so it'll be bully-boy tactics all the way. 

Like expecting to 'do a deal' with the bloke at the office who borrows money every day off some poor sap and couldn't care less about paying it back. 

I think getting rid of 11 million people from your country is enough to worry about, since they are the underbelly of the 'gig' culture. 
He's going to need money in a way never previously experienced to do even 10% of what he has lined up. That means slapping new taxes and tariffs on everything that leaves their shores.


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## sawtooth (Nov 10, 2016)

It will be 3-4 years before a deal can be struck with the US, need to finish Brexit first.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 10, 2016)

sawtooth said:



			It will be 3-4 years before a deal can be struck with the US, need to finish Brexit first.
		
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It would take the EU that long... We might be slicker. But yes we need to be out before its usable. We also could be working on it now.


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## Foxholer (Nov 10, 2016)

RGDave said:



			...
Every single person in the US owes nearly Â£50,000 to the rest of the world. They can't pay it back, so it'll be bully-boy tactics all the way. 
...
		
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Not so much 'to the rest of the world' as to China and Japan, who hold about 30% and 25% resp of US Public Debt!


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## HowlingGale (Nov 10, 2016)

FairwayDodger said:



			I think unpredictability may define US policy for a few years!
		
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I think this about sums it up for me. Nobody knows. Yes, the guy's a bomb-scare, but he might surprise us.

I think the doom-mongers and naysayers need to let this one go. He's here for 4 years. Lets see what happens. Remember there's a process before he can push the big red button.

I might run for Prez. next time. Seems they'll let any clown do the job &#128512;.


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 10, 2016)

Might be good news for Sturgeon - as Trump is very much pro-Scotland


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## fundy (Nov 10, 2016)

SwingsitlikeHogan said:



			Might be good news for Sturgeon - as Trump is very much pro-Scotland 

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yeah gonna be great for her after she called him deeply abhorrent lol


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## SwingsitlikeHogan (Nov 10, 2016)

fundy said:



			yeah gonna be great for her after she called him deeply abhorrent lol
		
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that's true - he's not a fan of the SNP these days...


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## Doon frae Troon (Nov 10, 2016)

Do you foresee USA Naval activity offshore of Abredeen ?

You must love our government, when threatened by Trump over offshore wind farms they give planning permission to build the largest turbines in the world.:lol:


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## Farmergeddon (Nov 11, 2016)

According to the Mail this morning Trump called May last night had a 10 minute conversation in which he said she was Maggie to his Reagan, and if you believe that you will believe anything..


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## Alex1975 (Nov 11, 2016)

Farmergeddon said:



			According to the Mail this morning Trump called May last night had a 10 minute conversation in which he said she was Maggie to his Reagan, and if you believe that you will believe anything..
		
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DM Print only facts... must be true...


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 11, 2016)

I didn't want Brexit, but we have it. I also wasn't keen on Trump, but we have him. Perversly I do think he will be good for Brexit, and by sheer luck his election will save our Brexit from being the disaster most Europeans wants it to be.


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## jp5 (Nov 11, 2016)

Trump is a protectionist... why do you think that will be good for Brexit?


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## hors limite (Nov 11, 2016)

Why on earth will Trump be good for any potential US/UK trade deal? His populist mantra has been to promise to repatriate jobs - the aircon factory which relocated to Mexico where pay rates were a seventh of those in the USA is his personal favourite example. The only way to achieve this aim is to slap substantial tariffs on imports, slash business taxes and so create a protectionist environment for domestic manufacturers. I can't see how the UK will be treated any differently.
Got to mention May and her India trip.The Indians have straight away demanded more visas in exchange for any possible trade deal. How the hell can this be squared with the Brexiteers number one objective of cutting immigration?
An intelligent, coherent analysis of these difficulties from Davis, Fox, Johnson et al came there none! I haven't yet heard a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit - India and the USA aren't going to be the first either.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 11, 2016)

hors limite said:



			Why on earth will Trump be good for any potential US/UK trade deal? His populist mantra has been to promise to repatriate jobs - the aircon factory which relocated to Mexico where pay rates were a seventh of those in the USA is his personal favourite example. The only way to achieve this aim is to slap substantial tariffs on imports, slash business taxes and so create a protectionist environment for domestic manufacturers. I can't see how the UK will be treated any differently.
Got to mention May and her India trip.The Indians have straight away demanded more visas in exchange for any possible trade deal. How the hell can this be squared with the Brexiteers number one objective of cutting immigration?
An intelligent, coherent analysis of these difficulties from Davis, Fox, Johnson et al came there none! I haven't yet heard a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit - India and the USA aren't going to be the first either.
		
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Do you have any thoughts of your own or just verbose trot out what you read in the popular press?


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## hors limite (Nov 11, 2016)

Alex1975 said:



			Do you have any thoughts of your own or just verbose trot out what you read in the popular press?
		
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i don't know what i have done to deserve such a charmless response. The thoughts are my own. The conclusions are my own. The examples of the aircon business and the visa demands from India were drawn from the media - what's wrong with that?
If you don't agree with my views that's fine. Perhaps you could point out the faults in my analysis and educate me as to where I am going wrong? I think that you may find it just a bit more difficult than your first faintly insulting knee jerk reaction.


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## Alex1975 (Nov 11, 2016)

I don't have a view on the topic as such, I asked a bunch of questions. I thought your "Why on earth will Trump be good for any potential US/UK trade deal" was a bit aggressive and then its just a rant based mostly on popular press headlines and your frustration of the inevitable.

No big deal, just seemed a bit chaotic and frustrated.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2016)

No it's not good news 

One of Trumps big things was to "Make America Great" and to ensure everything works for US , including getting rid of "foreign workers" and foreign companies and getting the US nationals to do the work - so any trade deal will be biased towards to ensuring he gets the best deal for the US and not the UK or indeed the EU


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## Blue in Munich (Nov 11, 2016)

Interested by the potential trade tariffs.  IIRC, the last new golf club (from an "American" company) I looked closely at had a sticker on it telling me that the head was made in China, the shaft was made in China and the grip was made in Mexico.  So that's a 45% tariff on the guts of it and we hope he leaves a hole in the wall to pass the grips throughâ€¦â€¦.   I'm sure there are those on here more versed in the ways of business who will tell me there are ways round it, but on the face of it I'm not sure it's his best thought through policy.


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## Bunkermagnet (Nov 11, 2016)

Trumps whole modus operandi is the business way......make the company and you wealthier to the detriment of the collective good. That is why American businesses have been moving production of almost everything over to China....bigger profits. How he intends to get his fellow business buddies to repatriate jobs I don't know...but it wont happen overnight.
We though have been no different, and probably gave the Americans the thing they needed to not go with the established political route, when we voted Brexit. There is no "collective good" reason for us to have voted that way, especially when most of our limited production and systems in this country is foriegn owned.
I'm sure Trump does not like the EU with it's left leaning mantra's and ways, which is I accept one reason for Brexit, but it's also a vey big reason why I think Trump will sort a deal out with us, and probably quite quickly.

I'm sure nothing will be simple or easy in the coming years, I'm just hoping that we don't get left  as that little island who got left behind.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

hors limite said:



			Why on earth will Trump be good for any potential US/UK trade deal? His populist mantra has been to promise to repatriate jobs - the aircon factory which relocated to Mexico where pay rates were a seventh of those in the USA is his personal favourite example. The only way to achieve this aim is to slap substantial tariffs on imports, slash business taxes and so create a protectionist environment for domestic manufacturers. I can't see how the UK will be treated any differently.
Got to mention May and her India trip.The Indians have straight away demanded more visas in exchange for any possible trade deal. *How the hell can this be squared with the Brexiteers number one objective of cutting immigration?*
An intelligent, coherent analysis of these difficulties from Davis, Fox, Johnson et al came there none! I haven't yet heard a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit - India and the USA aren't going to be the first either.
		
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You either dont get it or maybe dont want to as it probably suits your own agenda.  What the Brexit campaign wanted was to CONTROL IMIGRATION, that may mean cutting it but sometimes it may require increasing it but the desire is for it to be under our own control and not an open gate. I think you know this.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2016)

Hmmmmmm I thought exactly the same but my thoughts went back a few months.

President Obama, " vote Brexit and you are at the back of the queue". I remember slagging him off at the time saying words like keep yer nose out, so much for a special relationship.
President elect Trump " Uk, you are at the front of the queue". Er cheers Donald. Which one do I believe. Not got a clue. 
But fully understand where Donny boy is coming from. If Donny wants to get American industry back up to speed he could start by putting a massive levy on Apple products being imported from China when it is an American company. If American companies do not believe in the American Dream/ workforce then his job is bigger than he thought.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Hmmmmmm I thought exactly the same but my thoughts went back a few months.

President Obama, " vote Brexit and you are at the back of the queue". I remember slagging him off at the time saying words like keep yer nose out, so much for a special relationship.
President elect Trump " Uk, you are at the front of the queue". Er cheers Donald. Which one do I believe. Not got a clue. 
But fully understand where Donny boy is coming from. If Donny wants to get American industry back up to speed he could start by putting a massive levy on Apple products being imported from China when it is an American company. If American companies do not believe in the American Dream/ workforce then his job is bigger than he thought.
		
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Good Point Tash.

The moving of production to countries with cheap labour rates does give companies a cut in overheads and assists to boost profitability.  It does not come without it's problems though, ensuring quality standards can be difficult and it can be difficult managing operations at such distances.  The other problem is that when you move production people in your own countries become unemployed and social degradation can set in, this can make people dissatisfied with their politicians for the falls in living standards, the people then decide to vote against the status quo and for things like Brexit and Trump


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2016)

Isn't unemployment levels at their lowest in over a decade in both U.K. And the US ? 

Because of companies being able to produce in the U.K. and being able to distribute with the EU allows them to base themselves here and create a great deal amount of jobs for everyone - same with in the US. 

Also there was a report recently about living standards increasing across the country over the last 5 years.

Suspect that's all going to change soon enough though.

Also looking at a report that was posted the other day - the people that voted for Trump were more in line with the richer end of the scale.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Good Point Tash.

The moving of production to countries with cheap labour rates does give companies a cut in overheads and assists to boost profitability.  It does not come without it's problems though, ensuring quality standards can be difficult and it can be difficult managing operations at such distances.  The other problem is that when you move production people in your own countries become unemployed and social degradation can set in, this can make people dissatisfied with their politicians for the falls in living standards, the people then decide to vote against the status quo and for things like Brexit and Trump
		
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And most of what you say relates to me, exactly when it comes to mining. Shut the pits and import cheaper Coal from countries that have appalling safety records. Who gains, me = unemployment. Joe public = pays benefits. Big company = profits. Local economy/ communities are on there backside. Not just talk, the above scenario is Mansfield, the low skilled low paid,  toilet of the East Midlands. Multiply Mansfield by X number of times in America and what you get is that people will follow Donny boy. Now it may seem that I keep banging on about the pits, but it is the same with knitwear in Mansfield, metal box that was in Mansfield, shoe co that was in Mansfield. Now all products made abroad in sweatshops, and no one is interested. The largest employer in the area now is sports direct at Shirebrook. Don't think I need to say owt about them, apart from it is not a shining example of a British company with a large local workforce. 
Is it good news for Brexit? what happened in the USA not to sure, the problem is at this end and the mentality of British politics and business. When Shirebrook pit shut, big sweetners were paid to get the sports direct factory built there with the promise of jobs. Shame those jobs were not nailed down to locals. Why were joe publics brass/sweeteners paid to save a job in Romania. Business mentality needs to change in this country for it to benefit us.
what no one has actually said is how would Brexit be affected if Clinton had got in. For me I think she would of been in the same choir as Obamas back of the queue song.


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## jp5 (Nov 11, 2016)

Think you're right Tashyboy - these are problems that Brexit and Trump won't solve.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Isn't unemployment levels at their lowest in over a decade in both U.K. And the US ? 

Because of companies being able to produce in the U.K. and being able to distribute with the EU allows them to base themselves here and create a great deal amount of jobs for everyone - same with in the US. 

Also there was a report recently about living standards increasing across the country over the last 5 years.

Suspect that's all going to change soon enough though.

Also looking at a report that was posted the other day - the people that voted for Trump were more in line with the richer end of the scale.
		
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Employment may be up but just take a look at the quality of many of these jobs.  Zero hours call centers etc.  People used to have skilled jobs in manufacturing where they has pride in their work and employers in general gave them a full working week and a pay packet that never relied on Tax Credits and food banks to prop them up.   Take a look around Liverpool, Newcastle, and so many big cities and what do you find, a lot of people struggling and bad employers propped up by the hard working tax payer.   We need decent jobs for people even if we need to pay a bit more for it.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

jp5 said:



			Think you're right Tashyboy - these are problems that Brexit and Trump won't solve.
		
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They can do and hopefully will improve things for many.  Time will tell.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			Employment may be up but just take a look at the quality of many of these jobs.  Zero hours call centers etc.  People used to have skilled jobs in manufacturing where they has pride in their work and employers in general gave them a full working week and a pay packet that never relied on Tax Credits and food banks to prop them up.   Take a look around Liverpool, Newcastle, and so many big cities and what do you find, a lot of people struggling and bad employers propped up by the hard working tax payer.   We need decent jobs for people even if we need to pay a bit more for it.
		
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How long ago are you going back to to help you think of this land and time you see that used to happen ? 

So much of the world has changed now that for companies to be successful it also has to be competitive financially both in the local and worldwide market. 

Quality of job ? Is working in a call centre not a valuable job to some ?

UK manufacturing reduced dramatically because it wasn't competitive with the rest of the World - because it charged too much compared to other companies around the world that offer the same product but cheaper and a lot of the time better. 

Where do you expect these companies to get the money to give these better wage packets from ? We have just voted to leave a market that gave companies a massive area to trade within - unless we find a trade deal that doesn't cost then companies are going to be hit with trade costs. 

It's all fantasy talk it really is. Jobs just don't appear from nowhere.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			How long ago are you going back to to help you think of this land and time you see that used to happen ? 

So much of the world has changed now that for companies to be successful it also has to be competitive financially both in the local and worldwide market. 

Quality of job ? Is working in a call centre not a valuable job to some ?

UK manufacturing reduced dramatically because it wasn't competitive with the rest of the World - because it charged too much compared to other companies around the world that offer the same product but cheaper and a lot of the time better. Working in a call center tends to pay crap wages as do so many of the new world of jobs.  

Where do you expect these companies to get the money to give these better wage packets from ? We have just voted to leave a market that gave companies a massive area to trade within - unless we find a trade deal that doesn't cost then companies are going to be hit with trade costs. 

It's all fantasy talk it really is. Jobs just don't appear from nowhere.
		
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It doesn't matter how long ago better jobs were available, the point is  they were better and paid a living wage.  Of course jobs dont appear  from no where, the majority appear from people that start up  small/medium businesses and create work.  If we want to buy a pack of  socks for Â£3 that are made in China then that may make us feel we have a  bargain when in reality we have put one of our own out of work and  subsidised a sweat shop where in may cases child labour is exploited.    IMO it's better to pay Â£10 for a better quality set of socks that gives  someone in this country a job.     Your precious EU is no answer either  as it gives us nothing we dont have anyway.   If you want to see how a  domestic market that manufactures good quality goods locally then take a  look at Germany, every town and village has somewhere that  manufactures.    It's not fantasy it's all possible even when there are  people around like you with no imagination or answers, only problems.


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## hors limite (Nov 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			You either dont get it or maybe dont want to as it probably suits your own agenda.  What the Brexit campaign wanted was to CONTROL IMIGRATION, that may mean cutting it but sometimes it may require increasing it but the desire is for it to be under our own control and not an open gate. I think you know this.
		
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Are you seriously suggesting that controlling immigration in a way that might  lead to increased numbers was what the pro Brexit voters voted for? At the same time, can you illustrate how the Trump policies might provide the basis for better UK trade opportunities.
Finally, as you've read my post, perhaps you might like to address the question of a " a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit"


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			It doesn't matter how long ago better jobs were available, the point is  they were better and paid a living wage.  Of course jobs dont appear  from no where, the majority appear from people that start up  small/medium businesses and create work.  If we want to buy a pack of  socks for Â£3 that are made in China then that may make us feel we have a  bargain when in reality we have put one of our own out of work and  subsidised a sweat shop where in may cases child labour is exploited.    IMO it's better to pay Â£10 for a better quality set of socks that gives  someone in this country a job.     Your precious EU is no answer either  as it gives us nothing we dont have anyway.   If you want to see how a  domestic market that manufactures good quality goods locally then take a  look at Germany, every town and village has somewhere that  manufactures.    It's not fantasy it's all possible even when there are  people around like you with no imagination or answers, only problems.
		
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It a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something just because it's British made - people want value for money , they will look for as best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Why do you think so many high street businesses are suffering - why there is so many empty units in shopping centres. M&S the most recent British company to start to feel the heat - why do you think so many factories closed down over the decades - because they couldn't compete. People are already struggling and you expect them to pay more for items ? Pure fantasy based of nothing but pipe dreams


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## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something just because it's British made - people want value for money , they will look for as best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Why do you think so many high street businesses are suffering - why there is so many empty units in shopping centres. M&S the most recent British company to start to feel the heat - why do you think so many factories closed down over the decades - because they couldn't compete. People are already struggling and you expect them to pay more for items ? Pure fantasy based of nothing but pipe dreams
		
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Phil you say it is a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something coz it's British made. It is a fantasy to pay the same price for something that was British made, but is now eg Chinese made and not of the same British quality/ vfm.
You say People will look for the best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Course they will because they are on zero hours contracts, low wages, benefits, low skilled wages. Aldi's success emphasises that. So many high streets are suffering. See my last sentance. Empty units, last sentance.
But the big one the really big one. Why do you think so many factories have shut down over the years, Because they could not compete. Complete and utter tosh. These factories shut down because it was cheaper to move abroad and INCREASE PROFITS. Without a seconds thought to the generations of family's who had shown loyalty to to said company. At times companies in this country could net ever ever compete on a level playing field because of the successive government subsidies some countries were prepared to provide but this country would not. This country was happy to protect other countries jobs and not British jobs, and to an extent it still was, Brexit has now forced there hand. 
Your last sentence that People are already struggling and prepared to pay more for items, is an odd statement to think of someone. People are prepared to walk down an uncertain path because the path they are on is one of depression. 
What has happened to British industry with the help of this government is now happening to the armed forces, it is something that is a bit closer to your heart phil and one that when you relate to that. You will then understand what millions of Brexiters already feel.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			Phil you say it is a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something coz it's British made. It is a fantasy to pay the same price for something that was British made, but is now eg Chinese made and not of the same British quality/ vfm.
You say People will look for the best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Course they will because they are on zero hours contracts, low wages, benefits, low skilled wages. Aldi's success emphasises that. So many high streets are suffering. See my last sentance. Empty units, last sentance.
But the big one the really big one. Why do you think so many factories have shut down over the years, Because they could not compete. Complete and utter tosh. These factories shut down because it was cheaper to move abroad and INCREASE PROFITS. Without a seconds thought to the generations of family's who had shown loyalty to to said company. At times companies in this country could net ever ever compete on a level playing field because of the successive government subsidies some countries were prepared to provide but this country would not. This country was happy to protect other countries jobs and not British jobs, and to an extent it still was, Brexit has now forced there hand. 
Your last sentence that People are already struggling and prepared to pay more for items, is an odd statement to think of someone. People are prepared to walk down an uncertain path because the path they are on is one of depression. 
What has happened to British industry with the help of this government is now happening to the armed forces, it is something that is a bit closer to your heart phil and one that when you relate to that. You will then understand what millions of Brexiters already feel.
		
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The cuts to the Armed Forces has nothing to do with the EU etc 

And can you tell me how leaving the EU is going to change anything you have mentioned ?


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

hors limite said:



			Are you seriously suggesting that controlling immigration in a way that might  lead to increased numbers was what the pro Brexit voters voted for? At the same time, can you illustrate how the Trump policies might provide the basis for better UK trade opportunities.
Finally, as you've read my post, perhaps you might like to address the question of a " a single solid example of an economic Brexit benefit"
		
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Yes, I am seriously suggesting that controlling immigration may sometimes lead to increased immigration, just like sometimes it may lead to less, it all depends on the countries requirement at the time and I am also saying that many who voted Brexit voted for that.

Regarding your question regarding Trump:  I have not suggested his policies will benefit UK trade opportunities but  since you ask me I can only think that if he puts us 'To the front of the que' and we are able to negotiate a tariff free trade agreement with the USA then it will be a benefit.

Regarding your last question and again it's not something I have raised with you but as we are not in a Brexit condition yet then the benefits are expectations.   I expect the fact that we can create our own trade agreements, that we dont have to open our gates to a potential limitless number of people that dont have the skills we require, that we will not be paying a surplus into the EU coffers, our ability to control our own fishing industry, we can buy what we wish where we wish and many world prices are lower that the EU, we will not have to pay to support basket case EU economies.   There you go.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It a fantasy if you believe people should pay more for something just because it's British made - people want value for money , they will look for as best as they can get for as cheap as they can get. Why do you think so many high street businesses are suffering - why there is so many empty units in shopping centres. M&S the most recent British company to start to feel the heat - why do you think so many factories closed down over the decades - because they couldn't compete. *People are already struggling and you expect them to pay more for items ?* Pure fantasy based of nothing but pipe dreams
		
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Of course people will look for cheap products but you dont seem able to grasp that buying cheap products from overseas sweatshops that pay people a few dollars a day and then our people having to rely on state benefits and food parcels to get by rather than paying someone in this country a decent wage is not good economics. M&S used to make great quality British made products but decided to sell cheaply made lower quality tat in it's place and they wonder why they have lost business!   many factories closed not because they made poor quality products but because it was cheaper to move production to countries with lower labour rates.  OK some industries suffered quality issues but not many.   The reason you see many closed shops where I live is due to new out of town retail centers being built with free parking and having the same shops that were in the High Street, mind you many of them sell the same low quality tat made abroad.

The line I have highlighted shows your lack of understanding on this issue.  If people had decent jobs selling products that we wanted to buy at a realistic price then we wouldn't have so many people relying on benefits and food banks, a place where they would need to pay less tax and spend their money as they saw fit on good British quality products.


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## Tashyboy (Nov 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The cuts to the Armed Forces has nothing to do with the EU etc 

And can you tell me how leaving the EU is going to change anything you have mentioned ?
		
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The cuts to the armed forces have nothing to do with EU, well we agree on that. The cuts to the Armed forces are due to a government that wants to reduce costs, yet provide the same cover as previous. It is the same cuts that have been applied previously to councils, NHS, now the police and the armed forces. Yet the same quality of service is expected. Yet we are in the EU and this is the best we get. It is that, that people have voted agonist. Incidently as a Liverpool lad what's your thoughts on the Liverpool council proposal on a 10% rise in council tax in Liverpool. To Mantain services? Don't sound like things are improving in Liverpool, yet we are still in the EU.
You ask me how leaving the EU will help fix that? You know what I have not got a clue. But I do know that having been in the EU for Lord knows how long and continuing to stay in will not change anything.   In my view.


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## Liverpoolphil (Nov 11, 2016)

Tashyboy said:



			The cuts to the armed forces have nothing to do with EU, well we agree on that. The cuts to the Armed forces are due to a government that wants to reduce costs, yet provide the same cover as previous. It is the same cuts that have been applied previously to councils, NHS, now the police and the armed forces. Yet the same quality of service is expected. Yet we are in the EU and this is the best we get. It is that, that people have voted agonist. Incidently as a Liverpool lad what's your thoughts on the Liverpool council proposal on a 10% rise in council tax in Liverpool. To Mantain services? Don't sound like things are improving in Liverpool, yet we are still in the EU.
*You ask me how leaving the EU will help fix that? You know what I have not got a clue. But I do know that having been in the EU for Lord knows how long and continuing to stay in will not change anything.*   In my view.
		
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The highlighted but is the important bit

People have the belief that things will be better but no one can say how - the campaign was in the back of words of making things better but no actual ways of how leaving the EU will actually make the UK better - there is a very high chance that it could actually make things worse - then what ? It's why people like Boris ran away as soon as the vote happened because he didn't know what to do next - and they still don't now 

Its the same thing with Trump - "Make America Great" - but not actually how.


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## Hobbit (Nov 11, 2016)

SocketRocket said:



			The line I have highlighted shows your lack of understanding on this issue.  If people had decent jobs selling products that we wanted to buy at a realistic price then we wouldn't have so many people relying on benefits and food banks, a place where they would need to pay less tax and spend their money as they saw fit on good British quality products.
		
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Really? I think that's just shows a lack of understanding of the real world.

First of all, you buy what you can afford. Secondly, you buy what you feel you need. If you're on the breadline you don't buy Hugo Boss polo shirts, even if they do last longer than George from Asda.

If you've got 3 kids wanting laptops for Christmas, and you're on the breadline what do you buy? Don't tell me, let me guess. 3x i7 processor driven with SSD's.. yeah, course you do. 

So what is "realistic prices?" Bearing in mind we're not living in a communist state and prices are set by the individual company.

I guess you're having your Friday night tipple...


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## drdel (Nov 11, 2016)

Utopia might be a dream. but for once could we have a post where the OP's question just gets answered with opinions and views and subsequent posters expend with their view without just tearing bits off the previous poster.

WE none of us know if the post Brexit or post Trump world will be 'better' (whatever that means) but what we do know is that rather like a company forecast we'll all try and exceed the forecast.

Global trade is under strain and things must change because China's position is unsustainable, the USA will retrench to some extent, the EU will address immigration and the ECB must restructure.

Consequently I reckon the future of the UK may be different than the past but if will, on average, be better- as that's what we will all work towards.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

Hobbit said:



			Really? I think that's just shows a lack of understanding of the real world.

First of all, you buy what you can afford. Secondly, you buy what you feel you need. If you're on the breadline you don't buy Hugo Boss polo shirts, even if they do last longer than George from Asda.

If you've got 3 kids wanting laptops for Christmas, and you're on the breadline what do you buy? Don't tell me, let me guess. 3x i7 processor driven with SSD's.. yeah, course you do. 

So what is "realistic prices?" Bearing in mind we're not living in a communist state and prices are set by the individual company.

I guess you're having your Friday night tipple...
		
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The real world is the one we all live in, I'm not aware of another.

I am not arguing what life is like for people on the breadline and the reality of British life today.  What I am suggesting is that the trend for more people to be living this way has been assisted by us manufacturing less and moving production of many commodities to other countries due to their cheap labour rates.  That does indeed make it possible to buy a Â£3 pack of Chinese made socks or  a Â£10 sweater made in India from Matalan but it does not help the people that worked in M&S clothing factory in Castle Milk that closed or the shipyards, train builders and vacume cleaner builders in Malmesbury that lost their jobs due to work being contracted to cheaper overseas countries.   

I am not suggesting just putting up prices to people on the breadline, believe it or not I'm not that stupid.  I am suggesting that as a country we need to start a program of manufacturing more so that we can create more meaningful  jobs.   Doing this would start to lift people out of poverty and I believe strongly that work is the best way to do this, paying people benefits to enable them to live a life without the hope of bettering their lot destroys them and social coherence.   OK, when we start producing more we may have to pay a little more for some products but to me that would be worth it if it allows people more dignity and purpose.

Prices are indeed set by individual companies but it's the job of Government to create the environment where Companies are encouraged to create jobs.  Some items will always be expensive but when you have a reasonable income you have hope.   You may have experience of working in Germany, they do exactly this, they manufacture so much more and have a mind set of buying German.

To answer your final point. No, I'm not as I have a long drive to Swansea in the morning.


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## SocketRocket (Nov 11, 2016)

Liverpoolphil said:



			The highlighted but is the important bit

People have the belief that things will be better but no one can say how - the campaign was in the back of words of making things better but no actual ways of how leaving the EU will actually make the UK better - there is a very high chance that it could actually make things worse - then what ? It's why people like Boris ran away as soon as the vote happened because he didn't know what to do next - and they still don't now 

Its the same thing with Trump - "Make America Great" - but not actually how.
		
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Did Boris run away?  I was under the impression he was the Foreign Minister and aparently not making a bad job of it.


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