# How will petersen' s team mates react to her?



## robert.redmile (Sep 20, 2015)

Most of us agree that she got it wrong today - so notwithstanding the mistake she made, and the way the mistake was amplified by her refusal to accept she did anything wrong, (and koch's actions btw were weak as well) - will her team mates shun her, for inspiring the USA comeback? Will the USA players forgive her? Will she forever be tarnished, and a great career be over shadowed by this event?
the Hunan interest in this event is fascinating.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

I'm not sure if "most of us agree she got it wrong today"

It's certainly spilt people's opinion 

But Peterson acted within the rules of golf 

Her teammates won't "shun" her

She isn't the most liked player on tour anyway but she will believe what she did was right - especially after she had warned the player a number of times


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## tsped83 (Sep 20, 2015)

A career overshadowed?? No, don't be daft.. She made a mistake, she will get over it as will everyone else.


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## Kellfire (Sep 20, 2015)

She made no mistake. She played to the rules. A shame others expect rules to be broken in the interest of "fair play". 

An oxymoron if ever there was one.


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## Norrin Radd (Sep 20, 2015)

what problem will there be.Pettersen had twice had a word ,the third time she had enough and called it correct .her team mates should applaud her for it not chastise in any way shape or form.


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## Deleted Member 1156 (Sep 20, 2015)

I doubt it will have any lasting effect. Life goes on and people forget. Can you remember who was involved in the 'replayed chip' incident in the Solheim Cup? That was pretty unsavoury at the time but I had to google it to see who it was.


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

Her name is PETTERSEN.

I feel better for getting that off my chest.:rant:


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## Hobbit (Sep 20, 2015)

I don't think Pettersen got it wrong. I think Lee got it wrong, and I think the Americans milked it.


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## bluewolf (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Her name is PETTERSEN.

I feel better for getting that off my chest.:rant:
		
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Lol, beat you to it in the random irritations thread...


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 20, 2015)

Hobbit said:



			I don't think Pettersen got it wrong. I think Lee got it wrong, and I think the Americans milked it.
		
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Absolutely. I have no doubt the US media will play it for all it's worth when she next plays on the LPGA but I don't think the European team will blame her or hold her accountable and nor should they.


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## richart (Sep 20, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Lol, beat you to it in the random irritations thread... 

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 Just seen that. 

I did laugh when one of the commentators called her Swedish. Probably not a good idea to say that to her face.


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## bluewolf (Sep 20, 2015)

richart said:



			Just seen that. 

I did laugh when one of the commentators called her Swedish. Probably not a good idea to say that to her face.

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Probably not.. She does look like a bit of a Bond villain.. She could probably kill you with a spoon and a toothpick..


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## pokerjoke (Sep 20, 2015)

They should stick by her because that's what team mates should do.

You win together you lose together.

Back stabbing her would be wrong and I don't believe theres one person in that team that would do it.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 20, 2015)

I think most people think she was wrong. The game of golf prides itself on fair mindedness and playing the game in the right way.
when my opponent walks off the green at a fair pace when I've only got 18" left kinda makes me feel it's been conceded(more so in a pro event, when they tend to be more generous)
i watched it live with my wife, and we were gobsmacked and a bit upset to be honest! All the commentators thought she was wrong, the ex pros were disgusted.
it was just wrong, even though technically she was within the rules.
only ardent golf fans will remember her tournament victories - most people will remember the bad sportsmanship.


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## Garush34 (Sep 20, 2015)

Don't see that she has done anything wrong. As others have said how is it wrong to enforce the rules, and if it's true that Lee had done it previously then it is right to call her on it. What if it had happened on the 18th for a halve would people still be saying the same, doubt it. 

Give it a week or two and people will forget about it. By time it rolls around again in two years all will be forgotten and it will all be about the comeback for 10-6 down, and the big putts and point that were won by the end of the American order.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 20, 2015)

Garush34 said:



			Don't see that she has done anything wrong. As others have said how is it wrong to enforce the rules, and if it's true that Lee had done it previously then it is right to call her on it. What if it had happened on the 18th for a halve would people still be saying the same, doubt it. 

Give it a week or two and people will forget about it. By time it rolls around again in two years all will be forgotten and it will all be about the comeback for 10-6 down, and the big putts and point that were won by the end of the American order.
		
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 "All be forgotten"....... Not a chance......


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 20, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			"All be forgotten"....... Not a chance......
		
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It will be - the incident is being blown out of proportion - there have been numerous incidents in the past that are now forgotten

Pettersen was within the rules and because her FC had been warned twice already was well within the spirit of sportsmanship - or should she keep allowing her FC to pick up without being conceded ?


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## SatchFan (Sep 21, 2015)

Yep. I reckon this issue will be forgotten just as quickly as that replayed chip back in 2000.


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## 99problemsbutapitchaint1 (Sep 21, 2015)

SatchFan said:



			Yep. I reckon this issue will be forgotten just as quickly as that replayed chip back in 2000.
		
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15 years and counting then


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## UlyssesSky (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			"All be forgotten"....... Not a chance......
		
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Maybe not completely forgotten, but people will stop talking about it quickly. Mostly because the americans won the cup.

I don't want to imagine the discussion we would be having if europe retained the cup 14:14, especially if it had been Petterson who had secured the last 1/2 point...


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## Khamelion (Sep 21, 2015)

It was a short put and given the circumstances she [Pettersen] didn't give the putt, people have missed shorter, so on the one hand she was right not to give it, the US player picked up, wrongly and got penalised, an error on her part, she'll learn from it and it was all done within the rules of the game.

On the other hand though, Pettersen will be painted the villain by some for not giving the putt in a sportswoman like manner, not adhering to the unwritten golfing code.

To me though the second applies only on the strength of how a player sees their opponent, if I knew my opponent was prone to missing short putts, then no way would I give it, but on the other hand if I knew my opponent would not miss, then I would give it.

That written, given the competition and what was at stake, I most likely would not have given it.


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## North Mimms (Sep 21, 2015)

I missed it all, but caught up on the relevant non-conceded putt.
What had happened before?


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## seochris (Sep 21, 2015)

North Mimms said:



			I missed it all, but caught up on the relevant non-conceded putt.
What had happened before?
		
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I missed it all...how long was the putt?  Not that it makes any difference...just curious that's all!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

seochris said:



			I missed it all...how long was the putt?  Not that it makes any difference...just curious that's all!
		
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About a foot and a half


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## pbrown7582 (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			About a foot and a half
		
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or 3 foot if you were stood by  Petterson.....


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## AmandaJR (Sep 21, 2015)

pbrown7582 said:



			or 3 foot if you were stood by  Petterson..... 

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Or less than a foot if you were Lee's caddy!


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

seems like even Pettersen is now coming to her senses.....

'I've never felt more gutted and truly sad about what went down Sunday on the 17th at the Solheim Cup,' said Pettersen.
'I am so sorry for not thinking about the bigger picture in the heat of the battle and competition. I was trying my hardest for my team and put the single match and the point that could be earned ahead of sportsmanship and the game of golf itself! I feel like I let my team down and I am sorry.
'To the US team, you guys have a great leader in Juli , who I've always looked up to and respect so much. Knowing I need to make things "right," I had a face to face chat with her before leaving Germany this morning to tell her in person how I really feel about all of this. I wanted her also to know that I am sorry.

'I hope in time the US team will forgive me and know that I have learned a valuable lesson about what is truly important in this great game of golf which has given me so much in my life.

 
 
'To the fans of golf who watched the competition on TV, I am sorry for the way I carried myself. I can be so much better and being an ambassador for this great game means a lot to me.
'The Solheim Cup has been a huge part of my career. I wish I could change Sunday for many reasons. Unfortunately I can't.
'This week I want to push forward toward another opportunity to earn the Solheim Cup back for Europe in the right way. And I want to work hard to earn back your belief in me as someone who plays hard, plays fair and plays the great game of golf the right way.'
I've never felt more gutted and truly sad about what went down Sunday on the 17th at the Solheim​


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

does this mean those of us who said she was wrong, were right, and those of us who defended her were wrong?........


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			does this mean those of us who said she was wrong, were right, and those of us who defended her were wrong?........

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Or she has been asked by Nike to offer an apology 

PR is forcing her to apologise and IMO it's wrong and she did nothing wrong but play within the rules.

As for people being right or wrong - at the end of the day we are all just offering our own opinion of the situation.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or she has been asked by Nike to offer an apology 

PR is forcing her to apologise and IMO it's wrong and she did nothing wrong but play within the rules.

As for people being right or wrong - at the end of the day we are all just offering our own opinion of the situation.
		
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Cant see much support for her in the media this morning - almost all the golf writers, and ex pros are saying she was wrong.
I've never seen a worse piece of sportsmanship (or lack of) in golf. Walking off the green by Hull is tacit indication that the putt was given, as it should have been.
Clearly made worse by Pettersen's insistence that the putt was longer than it was, and the weak captaincy of Koch - it was a shambolic incident, and one that will taint Pettersen for the rest of her life - that's not being over dramatic, that's fact - she has made a big, big mistake and the spirit of golf was lost in that incident.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Cant see much support for her in the media this morning - almost all the golf writers, and ex pros are saying she was wrong.
I've never seen a worse piece of sportsmanship (or lack of) in golf. Walking off the green by Hull is tacit indication that the putt was given, as it should have been.
Clearly made worse by Pettersen's insistence that the putt was longer than it was, and the weak captaincy of Koch - it was a shambolic incident, and one that will taint Pettersen for the rest of her life - that's not being over dramatic, that's fact - she has made a big, big mistake and the spirit of golf was lost in that incident.
		
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Here has been countless acts of worst sportsmanship in golf - plenty has happened in Ryder Cup and even in previous Solhiem Cups - can only suggest you haven't been watching golf for long. 

Last night on the golf channel there were a number of ex pros backing her in keying David Duvall and Nick Price . One big negative voice was Piers Morgan who accused Europe of cheating.

This morning on the sports news there was zero mention of the incident 

What Hull did was irrelevant as the player picked the ball up because she thought she "heard" a concession not what Hull was doing and again she was still on the green 

The length of the putt again is irrelevant - there is not set length for a putt to be conceded - that putt yesterday looked longer than the one Kuchar made Westwood putt - he thought it was goin to be given but putted out


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## Slab (Sep 21, 2015)

I think future captains will give additional thought to pairings next time for playing alongside Pettersen but other than that it won't really be an ongoing issue for her team mates

Its their job after all, folk made errors of judgement all the time at work and it doesn't get dragged up foreverandaday

(I know that's not all one word but I think it works so I'd like to start popularizing it)


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			seems like even Pettersen is now coming to her senses.....

'I've never felt more gutted and truly sad about what went down Sunday on the 17th at the Solheim Cup,' said Pettersen.
'I am so sorry for not thinking about the bigger picture in the heat of the battle and competition. I was trying my hardest for my team and put the single match and the point that could be earned ahead of sportsmanship and the game of golf itself! I feel like I let my team down and I am sorry.
'To the US team, you guys have a great leader in Juli , who I've always looked up to and respect so much. Knowing I need to make things "right," I had a face to face chat with her before leaving Germany this morning to tell her in person how I really feel about all of this. I wanted her also to know that I am sorry.

'I hope in time the US team will forgive me and know that I have learned a valuable lesson about what is truly important in this great game of golf which has given me so much in my life.

 
 
'To the fans of golf who watched the competition on TV, I am sorry for the way I carried myself. I can be so much better and being an ambassador for this great game means a lot to me.
'The Solheim Cup has been a huge part of my career. I wish I could change Sunday for many reasons. Unfortunately I can't.
'This week I want to push forward toward another opportunity to earn the Solheim Cup back for Europe in the right way. And I want to work hard to earn back your belief in me as someone who plays hard, plays fair and plays the great game of golf the right way.'
I've never felt more gutted and truly sad about what went down Sunday on the 17th at the Solheim​

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Where is Lee's apology?


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## AmandaJR (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			Where is Lee's apology?
		
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She's somehow now seen as the victim...if she had played to the rules then none of this would have happened.


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## vkurup (Sep 21, 2015)

Ignoring what the rule book says, would all the posters & the media feel different if it was one of the Americans who did this?   In many ways, the rule book only comes out to defend one of our own.  I feel for her, she was in the middle of a match and she used the correct rule.  The skipper should have halved at the end of the match.  The Skip has a job too.  

Moving to cricket: When Ben Stokes was given out, most of us knew it was self defence rather than obstructing the field.  But the Aussies used the rule book & even the umpire (IMO) got it wrong.  Do the Aussies sleep well at night? probably yes..


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

AmandaJR said:



			She's somehow now seen as the victim...if she had played to the rules then none of this would have happened.
		
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Indeed, if I were her I'd offer an apology.

It's not right that Pettersen gets lambasted when it's not her that broke the rules... that is of course if Lee wants to be 'sportsmanlike' (something that Pettersen apparently isn't)


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## Khamelion (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			I've never seen a worse piece of sportsmanship (or lack of) in golf. Walking off the green by Hull is tacit indication that the putt was given, as it should have been.
		
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Walking off the green is no indication of any kind of concession, it would be wrong to assume it is. The US players did it a fair few times, I seem to recall on one instance a US player holed out and walked off the green to start talking to her playing partner, leaving the Europe team with a short putt. The European player went to pick the ball up but did not  and I think the Europe player even looked up at the US player to see if it was going to be conceded only for the US player to carry on walking and not even look at the Europe player. The putt had to played. Which it was and it was holed.


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## Fyldewhite (Sep 21, 2015)

Lee didn't break any rule deliberately, she made a mistake and thought it had been conceded and certainly has no need to apologise to anyone from what I've read. Lesson for us all really, always ask "is that OK?" before picking up the ball, always check it's OK to play if there's doubt as to who's away. It would also help if players were clear and unambiguous when conceding a putt and make sure they do so every time.....even if it's a 2 inch tap in. Simple things if not done result in all this nonsense. Also, can't help thinking that many on here would have completely different opinions if the incident had been the other way round.


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

Fyldewhite said:



			Lee didn't break any rule deliberately,
		
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I don't think Petterson did either,..... and for that reason Lee should offer an apology to take some of the 'heat' off Petterson.

It would be sportsmanlike to do so.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Here has been countless acts of worst sportsmanship in golf - plenty has happened in Ryder Cup and even in previous Solhiem Cups - can only suggest you haven't been watching golf for long. 

Last night on the golf channel there were a number of ex pros backing her in keying David Duvall and Nick Price . One big negative voice was Piers Morgan who accused Europe of cheating.

This morning on the sports news there was zero mention of the incident 

What Hull did was irrelevant as the player picked the ball up because she thought she "heard" a concession not what Hull was doing and again she was still on the green 

The length of the putt again is irrelevant - there is not set length for a putt to be conceded - that putt yesterday looked longer than the one Kuchar made Westwood putt - he thought it was goin to be given but putted out
		
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should have said in 30 years of Ryder cups and Solhiem cups. 

And obviously not every ex pro, or commentator will agree on this, but in general most think Pettersen was wrong (as she does herself, hence the apology, but hey ho, let's all continue to defend her actions even though she has admitted herself she made a grave error!!)

We'll never agree on this, and the "rules are rules" brigade can always (and do) hide behind "rules are rules".

The rest of us, will always hide behind the "spirit of the game" and know that we are right in stating what Pettersen did was very wrong indeed.


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			does this mean those of us who said she was wrong, were right, and those of us who defended her were wrong?........

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No, Petterson did nothing wrong, but Lee did.


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## garyinderry (Sep 21, 2015)

The thing she did wrong was not suggesting she reply the shot.    she didn't give the putt and didn't have to.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			should have said in 30 years of Ryder cups and Solhiem cups. 

And obviously not every ex pro, or commentator will agree on this, but in general most think Pettersen was wrong (as she does herself, hence the apology, but hey ho, let's all continue to defend her actions even though she has admitted herself she made a grave error!!)

We'll never agree on this, and the "rules are rules" brigade can always (and do) hide behind "rules are rules".

The rest of us, will always hide behind the "spirit of the game" and know that we are right in stating what Pettersen did was very wrong indeed.
		
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Good luck in using the "spirit of the game" defence if you mess up and are penalised or dq'd from a comp&#128515;


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

garyinderry said:



			The thing she did wrong was not suggesting she reply the shot.    she didn't give the putt and didn't have to.
		
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Surely that's where the match ref should come in and give the option to play the shot. All Petterson had to do was inform the opposition & ref that the putt hadn't been conceded.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Pettersen says she was wrong. 

Why do those defending her think they know more about the situation that she does?


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

in case you missed it......


'I've never felt more gutted and truly sad about what went down  Sunday on the 17th at the Solheim Cup,' said Pettersen.
'I am so sorry for not thinking about the bigger picture in the heat of  the battle and competition. I was trying my hardest for my team and put the  single match and the point that could be earned ahead of sportsmanship and the  game of golf itself! I feel like I let my team down and I am  sorry.
'To the US team, you guys have a great leader in  Juli , who I've always looked up to and respect so much. Knowing I need to make  things "right," I had a face to face chat with her before leaving Germany this  morning to tell her in person how I really feel about all of this. I wanted her  also to know that I am sorry.

'I hope in time the  US team will forgive me and know that I have learned a valuable lesson about  what is truly important in this great game of golf which has given me so much in  my life.

 
 
 'To the  fans of golf who watched the competition on TV, I am sorry for the way I carried  myself. I can be so much better and being an ambassador for this great game  means a lot to me.
'The Solheim Cup has  been a huge part of my career. I wish I could change Sunday for many reasons.  Unfortunately I can't.
'This week I want to push  forward toward another opportunity to earn the Solheim Cup back for Europe in  the right way. And I want to work hard to earn back your belief in me as someone  who plays hard, plays fair and plays the great game of golf the right  way.'
I've never felt more gutted and  truly sad about what went down Sunday on the 17th at the  Solheim​


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Pettersen says she was wrong. 

Why do those defending her think they know more about the situation that she does?
		
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Because apparently we can't say that Charley is lying, but we can say that Pettersen is lying..


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Pettersen says she was wrong. 

Why do those defending her think they know more about the situation that she does?
		
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She's also said that she'd do the same again - see sky sports news

"asked if she would do the same again in the future, Petterson, who was playing in her eighth Solheim Cup, said: "Totally, we are all trying to win"".


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

I liked Inkster's response yesterday..... "we are over it already - we have the cup"


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## NWJocko (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Because apparently we can't say that Charley is lying, but we can say that Pettersen is lying..
		
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:thup:

Shame the incident wasn't the other way round in a Ryder Cup, would have been refreshing to see the US team defended so vehemently for following the rules if, say, Poulter had assumed a concession in a similar manner


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Pettersen says she was wrong. 

Why do those defending her think they know more about the situation that she does?
		
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Wrong to enforce the rule? Nope, can't see were she says that, it's all about the bigger picture etc, It's a PR exercise


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

NWJocko said:



			:thup:

Shame the incident wasn't the other way round in a Ryder Cup, would have been refreshing to see the US team defended so vehemently for following the rules if, say, Poulter had assumed a concession in a similar manner 

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What? You mean like the infamous Sorenstam chip shot? Yep, Nobody on here ever gave the Septics any grief over that one..


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Wrong to enforce the rule? Nope, can't see were she says that, it's all about the bigger picture etc, It's a PR exercise
		
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don't understand what you're getting at to be honest - she says she made a mistake, and the action she is talking about is allowing the result of the 17th hole to stand - ergo she is saying she was wrong in to enforce the rules,
no doubt you'll all come back saying she was just following the rules, but as Juli Inskter said, that's "B.S".


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			but as Juli Inskter said, that's "B.S".
		
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Of course she said that, the decision went against her team!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			should have said in 30 years of Ryder cups and Solhiem cups. 

And obviously not every ex pro, or commentator will agree on this, but in general most think Pettersen was wrong (as she does herself, hence the apology, but hey ho, let's all continue to defend her actions even though she has admitted herself she made a grave error!!)

We'll never agree on this, and the "rules are rules" brigade can always (and do) hide behind "rules are rules".

The rest of us, will always hide behind the "spirit of the game" and know that we are right in stating what Pettersen did was very wrong indeed.
		
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Which "spirit" rule did Pettersen break ?

And there have been plenty of other incidents in both Ryder Cup and Solhiem Cups far worse


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## Kellfire (Sep 21, 2015)

JamesR said:



			Surely that's where the match ref should come in and give the option to play the shot. All Petterson had to do was inform the opposition & ref that the putt hadn't been conceded.
		
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There was no option for her to replace and putt. When Lee picked it up without a concession it's a one shot penalty so her putt would've been for a loss anyway.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			don't understand what you're getting at to be honest - she says she made a mistake, and the action she is talking about is allowing the result of the 17th hole to stand - ergo she is saying she was wrong in to enforce the rules,
no doubt you'll all come back saying she was just following the rules, but as Juli Inskter said, that's "B.S".
		
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure everyone on here wishes they could've done things differently at times, accepting "spirit of the game" "sportsmanship" etc are important the fact is, at the time she called "foul" Lee was in the wrong, trying to make Pettersen out to be a villian in the moment during the game is wrong, it may of been "unsporting" not within the "spirit of the game" but she played by the rules and imo that makes her a professional who was fed up with Lee pushing it.


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## upsidedown (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure everyone on here wishes they could've done things differently at times, accepting "spirit of the game" "sportsmanship" etc are important the fact is, at the time she called "foul" Lee was in the wrong, trying to make Pettersen out to be a villian in the moment during the game is wrong, it may of been "unsporting" not within the "spirit of the game" but she played by the rules and imo that makes her a professional who *was fed up with Lee pushing it*.
		
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I see in Iain Carter's blog that Pettersen is reported as denying that now

"Suggestions that the youngster had made similar mistakes earlier in the same match were later denied by Pettersen."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/34310244

I take her apology as  genuine and think the remarks made on Sky last night by Summerfield , in that you never want to see your opponents play badly for your gain  is the " Spirit of the game and by penalising Lee for what was a mistake is against that " spirit "


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Which "spirit" rule did Pettersen break ?

And there have been plenty of other incidents in both Ryder Cup and Solhiem Cups far worse
		
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spirit, and doing the right thing can never be covered by "rules".


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			spirit, and doing the right thing can never be covered by "rules".
		
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So how can you say she didn't follow the spirit if you cant cover exactly what she has broken 

Surely the spirit of any sport is playing by the rules with honesty and trust and respect ?

Pettersen did all those - Lee made a mistake and Pettersen followed the rules. Just as many others have done in the past


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how can you say she didn't follow the spirit if you cant cover exactly what she has broken 

Surely the spirit of any sport is playing by the rules with honesty and trust and respect ?

Pettersen did all those - Lee made a mistake and Pettersen followed the rules. Just as many others have done in the past
		
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ok.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			spirit, and doing the right thing can never be covered by "rules".
		
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It may have been stupid, foolish, totally regrettable, but totally with in the rules, you can't pick and choose which rules you'll ignore and which ones you'll enforce.

We had a big thread on the rules area recently going on about intent and self policeing, Can Lee honestly say the Putt was conceded? even her pp tried to stop her.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			So how can you say she didn't follow the spirit if you cant cover exactly what she has broken 

Surely the spirit of any sport is playing by the rules with honesty and trust and respect ?

Pettersen did all those - Lee made a mistake and Pettersen followed the rules. Just as many others have done in the past
		
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Because it isn't simply a black/white issue.. Lee picked up because she wrongly assumed that Charley had conceded. She made this assumption on the basis of Charley taking off at the speed of light for the next tee (I appreciate she denies this, but I for one don't believe her). It was a misunderstanding in which both parties have to take some blame..

I believe that the behaviour afterwards was the European Team "hiding" behind the rules. Some people, myself included, believe that Sportsmanship is paramount. I would rather lose graciously than win contentiously. I would also apply that philosophy to life in general. Rules are there to act as guidelines. How we apply them defines our character. Certain members of the European team defined their characters yesterday...


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## UlyssesSky (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			but as Juli Inskter said, that's "B.S".
		
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Maybe Inkster isn't the right person to call anything "B.S."...

Just read a post on a german forum, posted by someone who was on site as an official for the whole weekend.

Apparently, the 'weather break' on friday was due to demands by the american team. Here's what makes it a little odd:

1. There was no weather warning. According to the official weather guy there was no imminent thread within a 200 km radius around the venue. It was actually Juli Inkster who urged that play should be suspended because her players "were afraid"...
2. Most european pairs had been on a hot streak for about 90 minutes at the time. A streak that convieniently (for the US team) got stopped by the weather break....


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Because it isn't simply a black/white issue.. Lee picked up because she wrongly assumed that Charley had conceded. She made this assumption on the basis of Charley taking off at the speed of light for the next tee (I appreciate she denies this, but I for one don't believe her). It was a misunderstanding in which both parties have to take some blame..

I believe that the behaviour afterwards was the European Team "hiding" behind the rules. Some people, myself included, believe that Sportsmanship is paramount. I would rather lose graciously than win contentiously. I would also apply that philosophy to life in general. Rules are there to act as guidelines. How we apply them defines our character. Certain members of the European team defined their characters yesterday...
		
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Lee didn't base the concession on the movement of Hull - she based the concession on hearing someone say it's ok - Lee wasn't looking at Hull when she picked the ball up 


Again it wasn't Hull moving that made Lee believe the hole was finished


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Lee didn't base the concession on the movement of Hull - she based the concession on hearing someone say it's ok - Lee wasn't looking at Hull when she picked the ball up 


Again it wasn't Hull moving that made Lee believe the hole was finished
		
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A quote...

Lee later said that she thought the Europeans had conceded her putt.
"I thought I heard it was 'good'," she said. "Charley was walking off the green and Suzann was already off the green so there was no doubt in my mind that the putt was 'good'.

It's the grey areas in which our character shows through.. There's a grey area.. Our character certainly showed...


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			A quote...

Lee later said that she thought the Europeans had conceded her putt.
"I thought I heard it was 'good'," she said. "Charley was walking off the green and Suzann was already off the green so there was no doubt in my mind that the putt was 'good'.

It's the grey areas in which our character shows through.. There's a grey area.. Our character certainly showed...

Click to expand...

Just like you don't believe Hull's version, what do you expect Lee to say?


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## NWJocko (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			It was a misunderstanding in which both parties have to take some blame..

I believe that the behaviour afterwards was the European Team "hiding" behind the rules. Some people, myself included, believe that Sportsmanship is paramount. I would rather lose graciously than win contentiously. I would also apply that philosophy to life in general. Rules are there to act as guidelines. How we apply them defines our character. Certain members of the European team defined their characters yesterday...
		
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Sums up my thoughts perfectly :thup:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			A quote...

Lee later said that she thought the Europeans had conceded her putt.
"I thought I heard it was 'good'," she said. "Charley was walking off the green and Suzann was already off the green so there was no doubt in my mind that the putt was 'good'.

It's the grey areas in which our character shows through.. There's a grey area.. Our character certainly showed...

Click to expand...

Just watched it again - she missed the putt , walked towards it and picked it up and then looked around - so would she have picked it up if she hasn't heard the words ? That's what made her pick the ball up

In regard the sportsmanship it's very hard to judge IMO because of lot about sportsmanship is also playing within the rules. 

If there is any doubt then always seek clarification


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## nairn1967 (Sep 21, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Absolutely. I have no doubt the US media will play it for all it's worth when she next plays on the LPGA but I don't think the European team will blame her or hold her accountable and nor should they.
		
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Bad sportsmanship, at the club she would be tortured.................


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## richart (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			A quote...

Lee later said that she thought the Europeans had conceded her putt.
"I thought I heard it was 'good'," she said. "Charley was walking off the green and Suzann was already off the green so there was no doubt in my mind that the putt was 'good'.

Click to expand...

 That sums it up. You think you hear someone concede the putt, you see an opponent and another ones caddie marching off at speed. I would have thought the putt was good as well and picked it up. 

Shame Charley Hull said she was off to speak to Pettersen about conceding the putt. That doesn't ring right to me, and sounds like an attempt to all sing off the same hymn sheet.

The incident has certainly led to some lively debate.:thup:


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Just like you don't believe Hull's version, what do you expect Lee to say?
		
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I expect nothing from either.. I don't believe Hull's version, in much the same way that I don't believe that Pettersen is sincere in her apology. I suspect that both were under quite severe pressure from their Peers to say the "right" thing.. It could be that Lee is lying also.. There is no way to know.. What I do know is that Charley took off like her ass was on fire whilst the first putt was still moving.. Based on that, I believe that Lee assumed (wrongly) that the putt was given. It was a mistake (not cheating) based on what I believe was a mistake by Charley.. Blame enough to go around both groups.. Sportsmanship could have been the big winner here, but it wasn't..

I appreciate that my opinion might not be palatable to some, but I stand by it.. I think the European Team were wrong in their actions..


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

richart said:



			That sums it up. You think you hear someone concede the putt, you see an opponent and another ones caddie marching off at speed. I would have thought the putt was good as well and picked it up. 

Shame Charley Hull said she was off to speak to Pettersen about conceding the putt. That doesn't ring right to me, and sounds like an attempt to all sing off the same hymn sheet.

The incident has certainly led to some lively debate.:thup:
		
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So if Lee said she heard someone say it's good - why did no one else hear that ? 

Do people believe Lee and not Hull

Watching it again Hulls caddy watched Lee the whole time and then said something as soon as she picked it up


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## richart (Sep 21, 2015)

If Charley Hull had done the same thing, I am sure we would have all said she is young and a bit ditzy, which according to Laura Davies she can be.

Alison Lee is only a year older, has only been playing as a pro for 9 months, was the only rookie, yet she seems to some to be trying to cheat.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I expect nothing from either.. I don't believe Hull's version, in much the same way that I don't believe that Pettersen is sincere in her apology. I suspect that both were under quite severe pressure from their Peers to say the "right" thing.. It could be that Lee is lying also.. There is no way to know.. What I do know is that Charley took off like her ass was on fire whilst the first putt was still moving.. Based on that, I believe that Lee assumed (wrongly) that the putt was given. It was a mistake (not cheating) based on what I believe was a mistake by Charley.. Blame enough to go around both groups.. Sportsmanship could have been the big winner here, but it wasn't..

I appreciate that my opinion might not be palatable to some, but I stand by it.. I think the European Team were wrong in their actions..
		
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Totally agree with both being in the wrong, why couldn't Lee hold her hands up and say she made a mistake, should've confirmed the gimme and take some responsibility, that would've diffused the situation and we wouldn't be questioning the European team. I just wonder at what point sportsmanship overtakes rules.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Totally agree with both being in the wrong, why couldn't Lee hold her hands up and say she made a mistake, should've confirmed the gimme and take some responsibility, that would've diffused the situation and we wouldn't be questioning the European team. I just wonder at what point sportsmanship overtakes rules.
		
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I agree that Lee should have stood up and taken some of the blame. What would have been fantastic to see would have been both sets of players stand together and present a united front..

With regards to Sportsmanship and the Rules, I might get a few pelters for saying it, but Sportsmanship should always trump rules, but part of Sportsmanship is to play within the rules unless you believe that a particular ruling is either unfair or downright wrong.. Obviously we are talking about Matchplay here..

Note, I'm not saying that rules should be ignored or broken in normal play, but in exceptional circumstances such as yesterday then there has to be a better way to present our game to the World..


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

richart said:



			If Charley Hull had done the same thing, I am sure we would have all said she is young and a bit ditzy, which according to Laura Davies she can be.

Alison Lee is only a year older, has only been playing as a pro for 9 months, was the only rookie, *yet she seems to some to be trying to cheat*.

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I wouldn't say she was cheating per se, but, by picking up without confirming she had been awarded the putt, was daft in the least. 
Especially if she had been warned previously. 
Seems a little odd to just keep on doing it if that is the case. 
Even those on the Petterson Witchhunt Committee must agree that!?!


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## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2015)

Seeing as Petterson has now gone on record and apologised for her actions. I think we can safely say she screwed up. Gone onto say that she did not see the bigger picture and will learn from it.

big up respect for her coming out with her statement/apology for  if she felt she had done nothing wrong then she had nothing to apologise for. Obviously she did.


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

JamesR said:



			I wouldn't say she was cheating per se, but, by picking up without confirming she had been awarded the putt, was daft in the least. 
Especially if she had been warned previously. 
Seems a little odd to just keep on doing it if that is the case. 
Even those on the Petterson Witchhunt Committee must agree that!?!
		
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Pettersen now appears to be saying that Lee had not been warned previously.. Might put a slightly different slant on it?


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I agree that Lee should have stood up and taken some of the blame. What would have been fantastic to see would have been both sets of players stand together and present a united front..

With regards to Sportsmanship and the Rules, I might get a few pelters for saying it, but Sportsmanship should always trump rules, but part of Sportsmanship is to play within the rules unless you believe that a particular ruling is either unfair or downright wrong.. Obviously we are talking about Matchplay here..

Note, I'm not saying that rules should be ignored or broken in normal play, but in exceptional circumstances such as yesterday then there has to be a better way to present our game to the World..
		
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:thup:


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			:thup:
		
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I think this has been one of the best discussions for a while.. No real arguing, just opinions put down and discussed.. Great to see..:thup:


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I think this has been one of the best discussions for a while.. No real arguing, just opinions put down and discussed.. *Great to see*..:thup:
		
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Agreed - I like a good discussion, and it's nice that it didn't end up as a mud-slinging catfight.


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			There was no option for her to replace and putt. When Lee picked it up without a concession it's a one shot penalty so her putt would've been for a loss anyway.
		
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I thought it was a rule that if you thought a putt had been given, but you were wrong (misheard or misunderstood a comment) then the ball could be replaced and the putt taken without penalty.

It could be an old rule, or I could be totally wrong - it's never something me or a playing partner has ever done so it's never really come up. But I'm sure there either is or was a rule like that.


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

^
^
I think there's a rule that if you putt out of turn (tap in your 1 inch putt) you can be made to replace it and play it again if the oppo so wishes. Don't think there's a rule pertaining to you picking up that 1 inch putt without consent.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I think this has been one of the best discussions for a while.. No real arguing, just opinions put down and discussed.. Great to see..:thup:
		
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Couple of good articles on the "net" with differing views/opinions, all seem to put Pettersen on the naughty step regardless of rights/wrongs/rules/sportsmanship


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Couple of good articles on the "net" with differing views/opinions, all seem to put Pettersen on the naughty step regardless of rights/wrongs/rules/sportsmanship
		
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What has happened wasn't very sporting, that's about it.

BOTH were in the wrong in my opinion, one for breaking the 'rules' and one for being a knob about it.


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## Val (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I agree that Lee should have stood up and taken some of the blame. What would have been fantastic to see would have been both sets of players stand together and present a united front..

With regards to Sportsmanship and the Rules, I might get a few pelters for saying it, but Sportsmanship should always trump rules, but part of Sportsmanship is to play within the rules unless you believe that a particular ruling is either unfair or downright wrong.. Obviously we are talking about Matchplay here..

Note, I'm not saying that rules should be ignored or broken in normal play, but in exceptional circumstances such as yesterday then there has to be a better way to present our game to the World..
		
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Great post :thup:


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			What has happened wasn't very sporting, that's about it.

BOTH were in the wrong in my opinion, one for breaking the 'rules' and one for being a knob about it.
		
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I agree with this rather succinctly put view


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## Kellfire (Sep 21, 2015)

JamesR said:



			I thought it was a rule that if you thought a putt had been given, but you were wrong (misheard or misunderstood a comment) then the ball could be replaced and the putt taken without penalty.

It could be an old rule, or I could be totally wrong - it's never something me or a playing partner has ever done so it's never really come up. But I'm sure there either is or was a rule like that.
		
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Europe and/or the ref would have to agree that something reasonably suggestive of a concession had taken place which they both said didn't happen, so that would have required the European pair to lie to allow that to happen.

I don't think lying is sportsmanlike either, even if it would have been to assist Lee in her error.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			What has happened wasn't very sporting, that's about it.

BOTH were in the wrong in my opinion, one for breaking the 'rules' and one for being a knob about it.
		
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To be honest I would probably add some responsibility to the European Captain as well, if Pettersen was "caught up" in the winning, the captain should've seen the bigger picture


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 21, 2015)

Am I too naive in just believing what everyone is saying about it?

Having now seen it the putt seems to be in the range that you'd expect to be conceded but that sometimes isn't, particularly when a tense and important match is getting to the crunch.

Misunderstanding all round and everyone standing their ground for too long without realising it was an unedifying bit of nonsense.


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## seochris (Sep 21, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Am I too naive in just believing what everyone is saying about it?

Having now seen it the putt seems to be in the range that you'd expect to be conceded but that sometimes isn't, particularly when a tense and important match is getting to the crunch.

Misunderstanding all round and everyone standing their ground for too long without realising it was an unedifying bit of nonsense.
		
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Can you let me know where you saw the putt?  I am dying to see what all the fuss is about!


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## FairwayDodger (Sep 21, 2015)

seochris said:



			Can you let me know where you saw the putt?  I am dying to see what all the fuss is about!
		
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Highlights on Sky Sports at the moment.


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## cookelad (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			What has happened wasn't very sporting, that's about it.

BOTH were in the wrong in my opinion, one for breaking the 'rules' and one for being a knob about it.
		
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:thup:

Probably one of those situations that would've quickly been forgotten about had there been just the 4 players and the referee present, but looking at the amount of people gathering round the incident they were the last match on the course, with a lot of adrenaline fueling the discussion.

And Piers Morgan saying that Petterson was wrong is all the evidence I need to know how right she was - He was arguing with Matthew Pinsent about sportsmanship, Pincent firmly in Petterson's corner, if I had to pick between Pinsent and Morgan whose example of sportsmanship to follow I know who I'd go with!


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## JamesR (Sep 21, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Europe and/or the ref would have to agree that something reasonably suggestive of a concession had taken place which they both said didn't happen, so that would have required the European pair to lie to allow that to happen.

I don't think lying is sportsmanlike either, even if it would have been to assist Lee in her error.
		
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Thanks for clearing that up - makes sense


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

I was recently involved in a somewhat analogous situation in a Seniors interclub match.  One of our opponents picked up his ball without a concession from us because he thought he was out of the hole, when in fact he still had a putt for a half with a stroke. We had reminded him several times that he did have a stroke at that hole.  We were not sure how to proceed, and this was debated in the Rules forum under the heading "Senior Moment". Apparently we could have retrospectively conceded the putt for a half (although it was not really a gimme), which is probably what Pettersen and Hull should have done.  Having said that, I understand that Lee had some 'previous' for picking up the ball on the assumption that a short putt would be given, so maybe this served her right, and Pettersen was right to stand her ground!


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 21, 2015)

Why does anyone ask Piers Morgan for his opinion about anything, particularly sport? Just weird. The bloke is awful and should never be asked about anything.

I haven't followed all of this, missed the incident itself as well but I would be interested to hear what other pro's said about it. From what I have heard Europe was in the right. I would never assume a hole has been given unless I saw the opponents mouth move and saw the words coming out. I always assume I will have to putt unless they specifically say otherwise and I always look at the person who is making that decision. If I don't visually see them concede then I carry on and putt out. If the American was warned previously about this, posters have mentioned this, and yet she carried on picking up then where do you draw the line?

Pro's have their own way of doing things and so what the US woman did when reacting to the European movement off the green may have been because their action signified that the hole was conceded. Is that the pro's way? I genuinely don't know and the answer to that is the key to it in my eyes.


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## Green Bay Hacker (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I expect nothing from either.. I don't believe Hull's version, in much the same way that I don't believe that Pettersen is sincere in her apology. I suspect that both were under quite severe pressure from their Peers to say the "right" thing.. It could be that Lee is lying also.. There is no way to know.. What I do know is that Charley took off like her ass was on fire whilst the first putt was still moving.. Based on that, I believe that Lee assumed (wrongly) that the putt was given. It was a mistake (not cheating) based on what I believe was a mistake by Charley.. Blame enough to go around both groups.. Sportsmanship could have been the big winner here, but it wasn't..

I appreciate that my opinion might not be palatable to some, but I stand by it.. I think the European Team were wrong in their actions..
		
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Pretty much sums it up for me. None of them have come out of this well.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why does anyone ask Piers Morgan for his opinion about anything, particularly sport? Just weird. The bloke is awful and should never be asked about anything.

I haven't followed all of this, missed the incident itself as well but I would be interested to hear what other pro's said about it. From what I have heard Europe was in the right. I would never assume a hole has been given unless I saw the opponents mouth move and saw the words coming out. I always assume I will have to putt unless they specifically say otherwise and I always look at the person who is making that decision. If I don't visually see them concede then I carry on and putt out. If the American was warned previously about this, posters have mentioned this, and yet she carried on picking up then where do you draw the line?

Pro's have their own way of doing things and so what the US woman did when reacting to the European movement off the green may have been because their action signified that the hole was conceded. Is that the pro's way? I genuinely don't know and the answer to that is the key to it in my eyes.
		
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I've seen a couple of responses from Pro's on twitter saying they can see both sides and the emotion of the event can make a difference, probably sitting on the fence to avoid getting dragged in to it.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Why does anyone ask Piers Morgan for his opinion about anything, particularly sport? Just weird. The bloke is awful and should never be asked about anything.

I haven't followed all of this, missed the incident itself as well but I would be interested to hear what other pro's said about it. From what I have heard Europe was in the right. I would never assume a hole has been given unless I saw the opponents mouth move and saw the words coming out. I always assume I will have to putt unless they specifically say otherwise and I always look at the person who is making that decision. If I don't visually see them concede then I carry on and putt out. If the American was warned previously about this, posters have mentioned this, and yet she carried on picking up then where do you draw the line?

Pro's have their own way of doing things and so what the US woman did when reacting to the European movement off the green may have been because their action signified that the hole was conceded. Is that the pro's way? I genuinely don't know and the answer to that is the key to it in my eyes.
		
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Not sure if anyone asked Piers Morgan or if he just tweeted something. 
The man is a complete oxygen thief,that's why I don't follow him & don't have to listen to his opinions.


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## mpluis (Sep 21, 2015)

Golf is a mental game with you and others, we can see that Tiger was buried down,
Seve did use mental pressure, Trevino played your mind without you knowing.
Jack had the same swing forever that nobody could take apart.... 
 They were playing mental games, but the Americans win it, by becoming the
victim and saying BS or fairplay or whatever word they did.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

cookelad said:



			:thup:

Probably one of those situations that would've quickly been forgotten about had there been just the 4 players and the referee present, but looking at the amount of people gathering round the incident they were the last match on the course, with a lot of adrenaline fueling the discussion.

And Piers Morgan saying that Petterson was wrong is all the evidence I need to know how right she was - He was arguing with Matthew Pinsent about sportsmanship, Pincent firmly in Petterson's corner, if I had to pick between Pinsent and Morgan whose example of sportsmanship to follow I know who I'd go with!
		
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What Morgan has been saying on the situation is a disgrace - accusing the European Team and Hull and Pettersen of cheating


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## Lord Tyrion (Sep 21, 2015)

Morgan feeds off outrage. He is the male version of Katie Hopkins. Best thing to do with people like that is ignore them.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

Lord Tyrion said:



			Morgan feeds off outrage. He is the male version of Katie Hopkins. Best thing to do with people like that is ignore them.
		
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I agree,but I've not read what he's been saying. 
If it's only on Twitter then it's pretty easy not to hear his views. 
Don't follow him.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			I think this has been one of the best discussions for a while.. No real arguing, just opinions put down and discussed.. Great to see..:thup:
		
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Exactly this mate :thup:

Great thread


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Exactly this mate :thup:

Great thread
		
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I agree, but as my Dad says, I could agree with you on this issue, but then we'd both be wrong! lol.

Seriously though, I would bet good money that when this all dies down, and some of the euro golfers are interviewed about this, in a years time, or the more famous ones get to write an autobiography that they express deep frustration towards Pettersen about this. 

Hull in particular will feel let down by her elder partner, and the rest of the team will feel this had a galvanising impact on the USA team - some of them will fall out with Pettersen about this, as it could have been handled so much betterer.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			I agree, but as my Dad says, I could agree with you on this issue, but then we'd both be wrong! lol.

Seriously though, I would bet good money that when this all dies down, and some of the euro golfers are interviewed about this, in a years time, or the more famous ones get to write an autobiography that they express deep frustration towards Pettersen about this. 

Hull in particular will feel let down by her elder partner, and the rest of the team will feel this had a galvanising impact on the USA team - some of them will fall out with Pettersen about this, as it could have been handled so much betterer.
		
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Or it will all be forgotten about just like the other issues that have happened in the past


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## richart (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Or it will all be forgotten about just like the other issues that have happened in the past
		
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 What like Seve and Azingers argument at the Ryder Cup. The Americans running on the green when Leonard holed that putt, or perhaps Sorenstam's chip that had to replayed. Yes I have forgotten all those.

I have also remembered great sportsmanship though. Flintoff consoling Brett Lee when Australia came up two runs short. Nicklaus giving Jacklin that putt at the Ryder Cup. Leftie applauding Rose's putt at the 17th a Medinah. The first London Marathon when the two runners crossed the line together.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

richart said:



			What like Seve and Azingers argument at the Ryder Cup. The Americans running on the green when Leonard holed that putt, or perhaps Sorenstam's chip that had to replayed. Yes I have forgotten all those.

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Until the incident this time I had forgotten the Sorenstams chip - the Leonard issue is mentioned every Ryder Cup but I think that's the worst thing to have ever happened in golf but don't remember the Azinger and Seve incident being mentioned regualry 




			I have also remembered great sportsmanship though. Flintoff consoling Brett Lee when Australia came up two runs short. Nicklaus giving Jacklin that putt at the Ryder Cup. Leftie applauding Rose's putt at the 17th a Medinah. The first London Marathon when the two runners croseed the line together.
		
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It's all these type of incidents both good and bad that makes sport great - it provides us all great talking points and great debates because a lot of time there is no right or wrong answer just opinions and it's always interesting to read and hear people's differing opinion and how some see things differently to others - a lot of times it also tells a good picture of the person they are.


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



			Not sure if anyone asked Piers Morgan or if he just tweeted something. 
The man is a complete oxygen thief,that's why I don't follow him & don't have to listen to his opinions.
		
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But twaddle from a boat load of forumers who would fight over the time of day is OK?


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

FairwayDodger said:



			Having now seen it the putt seems to be in the range that you'd expect to be conceded but that sometimes isn't, particularly when a tense and important match is getting to the crunch.
		
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I agree. I'd have made her hole out as she gave her 1st putt a good run, that's the 'penalty' you have to face for whacking your 1st putt and THINKING your return putt will be given.... sometimes it isn't.

All part of the match play tactic if you ask me including the notion of giving a few putts early on until the heat is on and then you ask them to hole everything... ESPECIALLY if it's downhill. 17th hole in a clutch match? hole it please.


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			But twaddle from a boat load of forumers who would fight over the time of day is OK? 

Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean :ears:


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

Mel Reid doesn't seen too impressed with Pettersens actions.


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## Tashyboy (Sep 21, 2015)

Funny you should say that, your post time says 17.09, but ave got 17.10 &#128563;


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

JustOne said:



			I agree. I'd have made her hole out as she gave her 1st putt a good run, that's the 'penalty' you have to face for whacking your 1st putt and THINKING your return putt will be given.... sometimes it isn't.

All part of the match play tactic if you ask me including the notion of giving a few putts early on until the heat is on and then you ask them to hole everything... ESPECIALLY if it's downhill. 17th hole in a clutch match? hole it please.
		
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I would have seen that putt in at that stage of the match!


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Delc, if you had half the length of the that putt left, we would make you take it!

as for being forgotten, and the reaction of her team mates, there's a great interview wit Mel Reid on line, where although diplomatic, she clearly is pished with Suzanne. And she mentions other team mates as well. 
Peterssen will be remembered as the golfer who cost her team the solheim cup, and harsh as it is she deserves it for her lack of class.t


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Delc, if you had half the length of the that putt left, we would make you take it!

as for being forgotten, and the reaction of her team mates, there's a great interview wit Mel Reid on line, where although diplomatic, she clearly is pished with Suzanne. And she mentions other team mates as well. 
Peterssen will be remembered as the golfer who cost her team the solheim cup, and harsh as it is she deserves it for her lack of class.t
		
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Why this witch hunt against Pettersen, she has apologised and regrets what happened, She did not break any rules, Lee did, or is it because Lee cried and presumed she could pick it up, were's her apology in this episode?
If Petterson had conceded the 18th to be "Sportsman like" you would of got people on here saying fantastic and some saying she shouldn't.
She is one of Europes top Golfers had had the decency to apolgise and you still want to stick the knife in?
Lack of class? Move on.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Delc, if you had half the length of the that putt left, we would make you take it!

as for being forgotten, and the reaction of her team mates, there's a great interview wit Mel Reid on line, where although diplomatic, she clearly is pished with Suzanne. And she mentions other team mates as well. 
Peterssen will be remembered as the golfer who cost her team the solheim cup, and harsh as it is she deserves it for her lack of class.t
		
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Sorry but that statement at the end is utterly ridiculous and is now turning into a bit of a grudge and witch hunt against a lady who followed the rules of the game.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Delc, if you had half the length of the that putt left, we would make you take it!

as for being forgotten, and the reaction of her team mates, there's a great interview wit Mel Reid on line, where although diplomatic, she clearly is pished with Suzanne. And she mentions other team mates as well. 
Peterssen will be remembered as the golfer who cost her team the solheim cup, and harsh as it is she deserves it for her lack of class.t
		
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If you're going to quote an interview it would be good if you discussed all of it and not only the bits you like.
From the interview
"She's now apologised and now it shouldn't be remembered for that incident, it should be remembered for the great golf that 24 players played."
Pity you couldn't quote this bit


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Delc, if you had half the length of the that putt left, we would make you take it!

as for being forgotten, and the reaction of her team mates, there's a great interview wit Mel Reid on line, where although diplomatic, she clearly is pished with Suzanne. And she mentions other team mates as well. 
Peterssen will be remembered as the golfer who cost her team the solheim cup, and harsh as it is she deserves it for her lack of class.t
		
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So!  I rarely miss 3 foot putts anyway.  Where is this interview?  Do you have a link for it?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

delc said:



			So!  I rarely miss 3 foot putts anyway.  Where is this interview?  Do you have a link for it?
		
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http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/...cal-of-suzann-pettersens-solheim-cup-decision


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

Anything that has Piers Morgan said I ignore as he's nothing but a headline looking to happen and hasn't an ounce of honesty or integrity in his body. As for Pettersen, I still think she was correct and Lee made an error, and had be warned before, and paid the price under the rules.


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## upsidedown (Sep 21, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Anything that has Piers Morgan said I ignore as he's nothing but a headline looking to happen and hasn't an ounce of honesty or integrity in his body. As for Pettersen, I still think she was correct and Lee made an error, and had be warned before, and paid the price under the rules.
		
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As it stands there is no evidence of her being warned, Pettersen has denied it .


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Anything that has Piers Morgan said I ignore as he's nothing but a headline looking to happen and hasn't an ounce of honesty or integrity in his body. As for Pettersen, I still think she was correct and Lee made an error, and had be warned before, and paid the price under the rules.
		
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When was she warned? 
People keep saying that,but did it really happen?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			As it stands there is no evidence of her being warned, Pettersen has denied it .
		
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Not what was said this morning on SSN


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## bluewolf (Sep 21, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not what was said this morning on SSN
		
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Yet Pettersen says she wasn't.. Tough one.... Who to believe?


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## upsidedown (Sep 21, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Not what was said this morning on SSN
		
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On Iain carter's blog last night  http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/34310244
Suggestions that the youngster had made similar mistakes earlier in the same match were later denied by Pettersen.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Sorry but that statement at the end is utterly ridiculous and is now turning into a bit of a grudge and witch hunt against a lady who followed the rules of the game.
		
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So Mel Reid is ok with it? 
Who are these team mates mel Reid mentions that are not ok with it?


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## c1973 (Sep 21, 2015)

I'd quite like to know where this rumour of the girl having received previous warnings originated as well. 

If Pettersen said she hadn't been warned previously then who actually said she had?


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## Pin-seeker (Sep 21, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I'd quite like to know where this rumour of the girl having received previous warnings originated as well. 

If Pettersen said she hadn't been warned previously then who actually said she had? 

Click to expand...

Personally I think it was all made up & people wanted to believe it.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			On Iain carter's blog last night  http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/34310244
Suggestions that the youngster had made similar mistakes earlier in the same match were later denied by Pettersen.
		
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Have to say I hadn't heard that at the time and SSN were still touting it first thing. I think Pettersen was still within her rights to have the putt holed but clearly there's a huge element of doubt whether she actually did that now. I guess unless she comes out and makes a once and for all statement from her perspective to clarify what went on as she saw it we'll never really know the whole truth (or has that passed me by cooped up interviewing some real dead end candidates!)


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			So Mel Reid is ok with it? 
Who are these team mates mel Reid mentions that are not ok with it?
		
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Mel Reid also said the matter is now closed after Pettersen apologised - I'm not sure why you omitted that bit


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			If you're going to quote an interview it would be good if you discussed all of it and not only the bits you like.
From the interview
"She's now apologised and now it shouldn't be remembered for that incident, it should be remembered for the great golf that 24 players played."
Pity you couldn't quote this bit
		
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I watched the whole interview.
you can tell from the interview how Mel Reid really feels and and she also mentions other played who were not "ok" with it.
and yes, even though it's harsh she did show a lack of class for the following reasons.
- not conceding in the first place (see Jack Nicklaus and Catarina Matthews)
- not accepting that Charles's actions were tacit indication of a concesion
- not rectyfying the mistake on 18 when she had the chance
- swearing many times on camera
- waiting 24 hours before apologising
Etc


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

c1973 said:



			I'd quite like to know where this rumour of the girl having received previous warnings originated as well. 

If Pettersen said she hadn't been warned previously then who actually said she had? 

Click to expand...

Sky were saying yesterday and articles like this
http://www.tsn.ca/talent/pettersen-turns-solheim-cup-into-ugly-tizzy-1.363475
Were it originated is anybodies guess


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			On Iain carter's blog last night  http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/34310244
Suggestions that the youngster had made similar mistakes earlier in the same match were later denied by Pettersen.
		
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Again there is nothing from Pettersen herself yet.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again there is nothing from Pettersen herself yet.
		
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And until she makes a categoric statement we'll never know for sure. Don't think that will be happening soon


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Mel Reid also said the matter is now closed after Pettersen apologised - I'm not sure why you omitted that bit
		
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Coz I can't post the whole interview.
listen we'll never agree on this, it's a real interesting debate, I know what Mel Reid feels from the way she talks, you think she's ok, ultimately time will hopefully heal, and we can remember a great event!
cant wait for the next one!


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## c1973 (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Sky were saying yesterday and articles like this
http://www.tsn.ca/talent/pettersen-turns-solheim-cup-into-ugly-tizzy-1.363475
Were it originated is anybodies guess
		
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Hmmm, strange one. 
Mind you, on reflection it's probably not.....'journalist in making up story shock'.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			I watched the whole interview.
you can tell from the interview how Mel Reid really feels and and she also mentions other played who were not "ok" with it.
and yes, even though it's harsh she did show a lack of class for the following reasons.
- not conceding in the first place (see Jack Nicklaus and Catarina Matthews)
- not accepting that Charles's actions were tacit indication of a concesion
- not rectyfying the mistake on 18 when she had the chance
- swearing many times on camera
- waiting 24 hours before apologising
Etc
		
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So perception of body language, still no responsibility on Lee or comment from her so far? Is that a lack of class by your definition?


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## tsped83 (Sep 21, 2015)

I don't quite understand why the fierce debate on here rumbles on..? The match is over, the USA won, Petterson has apologised so draw a line under it and move on.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Lee is a kid, who made an error, but has been placed in an intolerable position.
yes she should come out and say" sorry, I shouldn't have picked up" and I guess if she did it would go a long way to healing the wounds - cos make no mistake the wounds are gaping at the moment and Suzanne has a long road back into acceptance in the USA golfing world.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Coz I can't post the whole interview.
listen we'll never agree on this, it's a real interesting debate, I know what Mel Reid feels from the way she talks, you think she's ok, ultimately time will hopefully heal, and we can remember a great event!
cant wait for the next one!
		
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You know what Mel Reid feels or you are making a guess based on what she is saying.

I'm not sure what it exactly you want to achieve here 

Pettersen acted within the rules and acted how she thought was right for her team at the time - she broke no rule yet is getting crucified by people like yourself. 

If the Americans had accepted that their girl made a mistake - still waiting for her apology by the way - then the issue would have been done and dusted. 

Some people seem to be on a mission to ensure Pettersen is hung out to dry over this and it's wrong.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			You know what Mel Reid feels or you are making a guess based on what she is saying.

I'm not sure what it exactly you want to achieve here 

Pettersen acted within the rules and acted how she thought was right for her team at the time - she broke no rule yet is getting crucified by people like yourself. 

If the Americans had accepted that their girl made a mistake - still waiting for her apology by the way - then the issue would have been done and dusted. 

Some people seem to be on a mission to ensure Pettersen is hung out to dry over this and it's wrong.
		
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I don't  want to achieve anything except express my opinion (shared by many in golf) that Suzanne was wrong. That's all.


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## upsidedown (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Again there is nothing from Pettersen herself yet.
		
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As regards the warnings ?


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Lee is a kid, who made an error, but has been placed in an intolerable position.
yes she should come out and say" sorry, I shouldn't have picked up" and I guess if she did it would go a long way to healing the wounds - cos make no mistake the wounds are gaping at the moment and Suzanne has a long road back into acceptance in the USA golfing world.
		
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That won't happen and nor will Pettersen make a full statement. I think the latter was right under the rules of golf and perhaps she thought it was a good time to as Lee to make a fiddly putt for the half. Why not? Standard matchplay tactics for years. Maybe she didn't make her intentions clear, perhaps Lee thought if she picked it up smartish Pettersen would have just carried on anyway. Until they both give full accounts its conjecture.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			As regards the warnings ?
		
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Yes it's all second hand words both the original story and the one from Carter - so far haven't actually heard it either way from the horses mouth so to speak.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			I don't  want to achieve anything except express my opinion (shared by many in golf) that Suzanne was wrong. That's all.
		
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And many in golf think there was nothing wrong with what happened. 

But reading through the posts it appears you want to ensure that its a black mark on her for life.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And many in golf think there was nothing wrong with what happened. 

But reading through the posts it appears you want to ensure that its a black mark on her for life.
		
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Whatever happens it will stay with her. That's inevitable whether she was right within the context of the rules or not. Not sure where about the "spirit of the game" and it would be sad if it really has become a win at all cost event.


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## upsidedown (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Yes it's all second hand words both the original story and the one from Carter - so far haven't actually heard it either way from the horses mouth so to speak.
		
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Indeed, having met Iain a couple of times have found him to be very informed so inclined to take his take on the denial.
As you say no concrete evidence either way which is a shame as some on here last night seemed to using the " warnings " as justification of Pettersens actions .
Will probably have to wait for some ones autobiography for the answer maybe


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## delc (Sep 21, 2015)

Pin-seeker said:



http://www.skysports.com/golf/news/...cal-of-suzann-pettersens-solheim-cup-decision

Click to expand...

I've now watched this. Even Mel seems to think that Alison Lee made a mistake, so why is Suzann being crucified? She was just being her normal competitive self!


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			And many in golf think there was nothing wrong with what happened. 

But reading through the posts it appears you want to ensure that its a black mark on her for life.
		
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It will be! And I can't have any influence on that. It will be decided by how her fellow pros react, and of course the media.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			Indeed, having met Iain a couple of times have found him to be very informed so inclined to take his take on the denial.
As you say no concrete evidence either way which is a shame as some on here last night seemed to using the " warnings " as justification of Pettersens actions .
Will probably have to wait for some ones autobiography for the answer maybe 

Click to expand...

It's the same with Rob Lee and Laura Davies who were talking about it yesterday 

Not sure who will make in a book but later in the year after it has all died down I expect a half hour interview etc and it will all come out prob


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			It will be! And I can't have any influence on that. It will be decided by how her fellow pros react, and of course the media.
		
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It won't be - just as other issues in the sport in the aren't constant black marks on people 

Do you want it to be a black mark against her ? It seems that way 

How about Lee - the person who actually caused the issue by picking a ball up when it wasn't conceded ?


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## JustOne (Sep 21, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			"She's now apologised and now *it shouldn't be remembered for that incident*, it should be remembered for the great golf that 24 players played."
		
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It shouldn't.... but it will, forever and ever. 

It will probably be the 1st footage we see at the next Solheim Cup and every time we see Pettersen on TV because that's how the media works.


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 21, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It won't be - just as other issues in the sport in the aren't constant black marks on people 

Do you want it to be a black mark against her ? It seems that way 

How about Lee - the person who actually caused the issue by picking a ball up when it wasn't conceded ?
		
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Lee was wrong, I don't think there's any argument there. It's whether Pettersen actually said it needed to be holed or not. That's the crucial point and one that only she can answer


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## robert.redmile (Sep 21, 2015)

Times a great healer and all that, and I sure have made more mistakes than most in all parts of my life, so I guess no, I don't want her to be remembered that way" and hope it can be forgiven by her peers as something that happened in the heat of the moment that could have been dealt with differently by lots of the participants.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lee was wrong, I don't think there's any argument there. It's whether Pettersen actually said it needed to be holed or not. That's the crucial point and one that only she can answer
		
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No! It's not whether Pettersen said it needed to be holed or not, it's the fact that Lee picked it up without checking, it's her responsibility to confirm. Pettersen definitely confirmed to the match referee it wasn't conceded hence Europe winning/getting the hole.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 21, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			Times a great healer and all that, and I sure have made more mistakes than most in all parts of my life, so I guess no, I don't want her to be remembered that way" and hope it can be forgiven by her peers as something that happened in the heat of the moment that could have been dealt with differently by lots of the participants.
		
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As much as we may not agree on the reaction, I do believe it's not her peers that will be the issue but the American supporters and media, Pettersen lives in USA and already Norwegian papers are talking anout extra security for her and her home, that's what really sad, nobody died, it was a sporting event.


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## wrighty1874 (Sep 21, 2015)

The one person who could/should have done the honourable thing, or at least came out and take the heat off her player is Carin Coch.Solence has been deafening. A British captain would have dealt with it a lot better I'm.


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## ShankyBoy (Sep 22, 2015)

She's hung herself out to dry I'm afraid in the US. She did not have to apologise as she didn't do anything wrong, you just don't pick up without confirming its conceded!!

Now she will be seen as the only villain in the absence of others pitching in.

I would have apologied for being part of something unsavoury that the event did not need but you can only conceed a put when asked.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			She's hung herself out to dry I'm afraid in the US. She did not have to apologise as she didn't do anything wrong, you just don't pick up without confirming its conceded!!

Now she will be seen as the only villain in the absence of others pitching in.

I would have apologied for being part of something unsavoury that the event did not need but you can only conceed a put when asked.
		
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If you read the statement that's what she did, she never apologised for not conceding the putt, but for getting caught up in the event and not realising sometimes the game is bigger and the impact it has had.


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## ShankyBoy (Sep 22, 2015)

I had read the statement and I don't think it reads very well for her, it reads like she was purely to blame and it will stay that way unless others come out and say something similar. Lee should come out and apologise for picking up before it being conceded, share the blame and move on, but will that happen, I'm not so sure.


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			I had read the statement and I don't think it reads very well for her, it reads like she was purely to blame and it will stay that way unless others come out and say something similar. Lee should come out and apologise for picking up before it being conceded, share the blame and move on, but will that happen, I'm not so sure.
		
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Totally agree and apparently the European Captain did consider conceding the 18th to tie the match until Pettersen assured her the putt wasn't conceded, but she should/could've seen the bigger picture and over-ruled Pettersen (which may of caused other issues).
Can see the downside to Pettersen and the "Spirit of the Game" issues but as you say, by the rules she did nothing wrong, Lee did.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 22, 2015)

* the issue here is not whether she conceded the putt or not (imo she should have, but that's not the big issue)
The issue is the way she didn't have the humility to either make Lee take the putt by replacing the ball, (which is an option under matchplay rules I believe), the aggressive way she tried to justify her actions, the way she exaggerated the length of putt with her hand gestures, the swearing to her captain, the impact it had on her teammates (not least Charley Hull), the fact she didn't concede the 18th as the best way to overcome the issues.

but, in the heat of battle we have all done or said things we shouldn't  - whether that be in sport, at work or in our family relationships, and she should be forgiven and given the opportunity to put this behind her.


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## Retread61 (Sep 22, 2015)

robert.redmile said:



			* the issue here is not whether she conceded the putt or not (imo she should have, but that's not the big issue)
The issue is the way she didn't have the humility to either make Lee take the putt by replacing the ball, (which is an option under matchplay rules I believe), the aggressive way she tried to justify her actions, the way she exaggerated the length of putt with her hand gestures, the swearing to her captain, the impact it had on her teammates (not least Charley Hull), the fact she didn't concede the 18th as the best way to overcome the issues.

but, in the heat of battle we have all done or said things we shouldn't  - whether that be in sport, at work or in our family relationships, and she should be forgiven and given the opportunity to put this behind her.
		
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In the same way Justin Leonard didn't concede the European putt at Brookline?? Frankly I am bored with the Americans whining. When they behave boorishly its just their winning mentality, whenever its someone else then its unsporting!!


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## Retread61 (Sep 22, 2015)

HomerJSimpson said:



			Lee was wrong, I don't think there's any argument there. It's whether Pettersen actually said it needed to be holed or not. That's the crucial point and one that only she can answer
		
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Good point. Surely in Matchplay if nobody says anything you just go ahead and hole it??! Then I am sure Petterson would have stopped her and conceded the putt. She had warned her before.


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## robert.redmile (Sep 22, 2015)

Retread61 said:



			In the same way Justin Leonard didn't concede the European putt at Brookline?? Frankly I am bored with the Americans whining. When they behave boorishly its just their winning mentality, whenever its someone else then its unsporting!!
		
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They're not whining. They've said very little as far as I can tell!


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## Retread61 (Sep 22, 2015)

There was plenty of comment from their captain on Sunday.


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## richart (Sep 22, 2015)

Retread61 said:



			Good point. Surely in Matchplay if nobody says anything you just go ahead and hole it??! Then I am sure Petterson would have stopped her and conceded the putt. She had warned her before.
		
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Who warned her? Pettersen denies it. All the players had a general warning on the Wednesday, but that is all. do we really think a Professional golfer would have to be repeatedly warned about picking her ball up ? Surely once would be enough, unless she is incredibly dopey.:mmm:

Lee thought said she heard it had been conceded, and with Hull and Pettersens caddie rushing off, who wouldn't think the putt had been conceded ?


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## Kellfire (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			who wouldn't think the putt had been conceded ?
		
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Anyone who knows the rules about concessions.


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## Smiffy (Sep 22, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Anyone who knows the rules about concessions.
		
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And still it rumbles on.


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## tsped83 (Sep 22, 2015)

Smiffy said:



			And still it rumbles on.
		
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Indeed. Ooh look, there's a magpie outside my window! He's taunting me as he obviously knocked off at 4pm. Sorry, digressing, where were we? Oh yes, the "Solheim" incident... YAWN


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## JustOne (Sep 22, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			I do believe it's not her peers that will be the issue but the American supporters and media, Pettersen lives in USA and already Norwegian papers are talking anout extra security for her and her home, that's what really sad, nobody died, it was a sporting event.
		
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All strange considering the Americans went on to WIN 

Had they lost I'd expect Pettersen to be currently packing.


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## richart (Sep 22, 2015)

Kellfire said:



			Anyone who knows the rules about concessions.
		
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 She does know the rule, and she said she thought she heard it conceded. Perhaps someome in the crowd around the green may have shouted out and confused her.:mmm:


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## Smiffy (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			She does know the rule, and she said she thought she heard it conceded. Perhaps someome in the crowd around the green may have shouted out and confused her.:mmm:
		
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Save your breath Rich. It's a drum that won't stop beating.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			She does know the rule, and she said she thought she heard it conceded. Perhaps someome in the crowd around the green may have shouted out and confused her.:mmm:
		
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I think the one thing Pettersen for wrong is not allowing the US then to replace the ball and putt out but is it a penalty ? 

If Lee has heard something then it's just a mistake - it's what happens after that. 

The question is what would the US team of done in the same situation ?


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## delc (Sep 22, 2015)

Poor Suzann Pettersen is still being pilloried in the British press (I.e. The Daily Mail) this morning, two days after the event. She was on our side for God's sake, and the Yank Alison Lee made a very basic error in picking up her ball without marking it, before getting confirmation that it had been conceded.  Suzann is being portrayed as the Pantomime Wicked Witch for just standing on her rights and conforming with the Rules of Golf!  

Would the Yanks still have won if this incident hadn't happened?  Frankly we will never know!


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## richart (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			I think the one thing Pettersen for wrong is not allowing the US then to replace the ball and putt out but is it a penalty ? 

If Lee has heard something then it's just a mistake - it's what happens after that. 

The question is what would the US team of done in the same situation ?
		
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 Yes she could have been asked to replace it and putt out, no penalty. It is up to the opposition to decide if this is what they want to happen. I doubt she would have been asked to putt it though.


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## chrisd (Sep 22, 2015)

LATEST NEWS FLASH !

Chelsea have confirmed that Costa is going to have a sex change, take up golf and is to play in the next Solhiem Cup - now let's see who breaks the rules!


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## richart (Sep 22, 2015)

delc said:



			Poor Suzann Pettersen is still being pilloried in the British press (I.e. The Daily Mail) this morning, two days after the event. She was on our side for God's sake, and the Yank Alison Lee made a very basic error in picking up her ball without marking it, before getting confirmation that it had been conceded.  Suzann is being portrayed as the Pantomime Wicked Witch for just standing on her rights and conforming with the Rules of Golf!  

Would the Yanks still have won if this incident hadn't happened?  Frankly we will never know!
		
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 What relevance is to which side she was on ? It was a total lack of sportsmanship, which she now sees. Our side, Yanks,:mmm:


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			Yes she could have been asked to replace it and putt out, no penalty. It is up to the opposition to decide if this is what they want to happen. I doubt she would have been asked to putt it though.

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What do you reckon the US players would have done ?


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## bluewolf (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What do you reckon the US players would have done ?
		
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Who cares what they would have done? I dont base my morals and ethics on anyone else.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

bluewolf said:



			Who cares what they would have done? I dont base my morals and ethics on anyone else.
		
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It very hard to go down the ethics and morals route when someone is following the rules and laws of the game 

And I was just curious what people thought how the US players would react in that same situation


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## richart (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			What do you reckon the US players would have done ?
		
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 No idea, but if they had done the same I would have been just as disgusted. You shouldn't base your actions on what you think the opposition might do, but go with your own values.

Personally from what I have heard of her, Suzann Pettersen was probably one of the few players that would have claimed the hole. 

It did suprise me that she didn't see the affect it would have on the match. Loads on here were saying it will fire the Americans up before the singles started. If forumers could see what was likely to happen, shouldn't Europe ?


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## bluewolf (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			It very hard to go down the ethics and morals route when someone is following the rules and laws of the game 

And I was just curious what people thought how the US players would react in that same situation
		
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But it doesn't matter one iota what they would have done. It doesn't change the debate in the slightest.


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## delc (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			What relevance is to which side she was on ? It was a total lack of sportsmanship, which she now sees. Our side, Yanks,:mmm:
		
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She has probably only published an apology on the orders of her US sponsors!


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			No idea, but if they had done the same I would have been just as disgusted. You shouldn't base your actions on what you think the opposition might do, but go with your own values.

Personally from what I have heard of her, Suzann Pettersen was probably one of the few players that would have claimed the hole. 

It did suprise me that she didn't see the affect it would have on the match. Loads on here were saying it will fire the Americans up before the singles started. If forumers could see what was likely to happen, shouldn't Europe ?
		
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Oh it was always going to be used to fire them up - it was a perfect memento swinger 

Can only suggest that the whole situation clouded anything beyond what happened.

The thing right now though that does annoy a it's all one sided towards the Europeans - The US player was in the wrong - the US Captain was very poor in what she said after 

They were talking in the club about the same sort of incident in a county KO final a number of years back - a player picked up the ball thinking it was given - it wasn't so the player accepted his penalty for breaking the rules and they moved on.

Are the US also not guilty of over reaction - they threw the toys out when it's clear the player made a mistake ? Maybe if they accepted their mistake and accepted the penalty then the match just moves on ? I wonder if the reaction would have been different if it was on an earlier hole during the Friday games ?


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## delc (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh it was always going to be used to fire them up - it was a perfect memento swinger 

Can only suggest that the whole situation clouded anything beyond what happened.

The thing right now though that does annoy a it's all one sided towards the Europeans - The US player was in the wrong - the US Captain was very poor in what she said after 

They were talking in the club about the same sort of incident in a county KO final a number of years back - a player picked up the ball thinking it was given - it wasn't so the player accepted his penalty for breaking the rules and they moved on.

Are the US also not guilty of over reaction - they threw the toys out when it's clear the player made a mistake ? Maybe if they accepted their mistake and accepted the penalty then the match just moves on ? I wonder if the reaction would have been different if it was on an earlier hole during the Friday games ?
		
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And remember the antics of Dottie Pepper, and Anneka Sorenstam being asked to retake a chip shot that she holed, in previous Solheim Cups!


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			No idea, but if they had done the same I would have been just as disgusted. You shouldn't base your actions on what you think the opposition might do, but go with your own values.

Personally from what I have heard of her, Suzann Pettersen was probably one of the few players that would have claimed the hole. 

It did suprise me that she didn't see the affect it would have on the match. Loads on here were saying it will fire the Americans up before the singles started. If forumers could see what was likely to happen, shouldn't Europe ?
		
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This ^^
However, she did discuss it with the European Captain prior to teeing off on 18 and the Captain should've seen the big picture and over-ruled Pettersen, who wasn't seeing anything more than a win.


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## richart (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Oh it was always going to be used to fire them up - it was a perfect memento swinger 

Can only suggest that the whole situation clouded anything beyond what happened.

The thing right now though that does annoy a it's all one sided towards the Europeans - The US player was in the wrong - the US Captain was very poor in what she said after 

They were talking in the club about the same sort of incident in a county KO final a number of years back - a player picked up the ball thinking it was given - it wasn't so the player accepted his penalty for breaking the rules and they moved on.

Are the US also not guilty of over reaction - they threw the toys out when it's clear the player made a mistake ? Maybe if they accepted their mistake and accepted the penalty then the match just moves on ? I wonder if the reaction would have been different if it was on an earlier hole during the Friday games ?
		
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 Did she make that much of a mistake. She says she thought she heard the putt conceded. Are we saying she is fibbing ? If I thought I heard a putt conceded, saw players and caddies scooting off, I would have picked up pretty sharpish as well. 

Personally see no reason for Lee to apologise. She stated her case. She didn't rant and rave about like some may have done. obviously she was upset, but I am sure a lot of that was because she thought she had let her team down. Until the singles she hadn't scored a point and had been ill most of the week. 

Any way off to the football, and that is my final say on the matter.


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## Liverpoolphil (Sep 22, 2015)

Enjoy the footy mate - been a good debate again :thup:

I think Lees one mistake is failing to make sure of the concession before picking the ball up. 

Two scenarios should have then happened 

1. The player accepts the penalty and moves on 

2. The European Team allows the ball to be replaced without penalty and the move on. 

Shame neither happened


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## chrisd (Sep 22, 2015)

Liverpoolphil said:



			Enjoy the footy mate - been a good debate again :thup:

I think Lees one mistake is failing to make sure of the concession before picking the ball up. 

Two scenarios should have then happened 

1. The player accepts the penalty and moves on 

2. The European Team allows the ball to be replaced without penalty and the move on. 

Shame neither happened
		
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To be fair, I've always accepted a concession without double checking


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## delc (Sep 22, 2015)

I was involved in a somewhat similar incident in a club match a few weeks ago. If something was said by Lee's opponents which gave a false impression that the putt had been conceded, then the ball could have been replaced as near as possible to the original spot without penalty. However as far as we know, nothing was said by either of them. I am sure that the referee considered this possibility before making his ruling.  Otherwise lifting the ball without marking it is a one stroke penalty and the US would still have lost the hole.  Alternatively the Europeans could have conceded the putt anyway.


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## AmandaJR (Sep 22, 2015)

The upside to all this controversy is it's taken my mind (almost!) of the fact we lost


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## Deleted member 16999 (Sep 22, 2015)

richart said:



			Any way off to the football, and that is my final say on the matter.

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Hope your night is rubbish&#128515;


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## Smiffy (Sep 22, 2015)

pauldj42 said:



			Hope your night is rubbish&#62979;
		
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It's Reading.
It won't be good


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## upsidedown (Sep 22, 2015)

delc said:



			I was involved in a somewhat similar incident in a club match a few weeks ago. If something was said by Lee's opponents which gave a false impression that the putt had been conceded, then the ball could have been replaced as near as possible to the original spot without penalty. However as far as we know, nothing was said by either of them. I am sure that the referee considered this possibility before making his ruling.  Otherwise lifting the ball without marking it is a one stroke penalty and the US would still have lost the hole.  Alternatively the Europeans could have conceded the putt anyway.
		
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When watching it for the first time thought I heard the ref saying hole havled in 4 and at 2.23 on this clip http://www.golfchannel.com/media/controversy-17-solheim-cup/ so he clearly thought the hole was halved ( putt conceded as Lee has just picked up the ball ) until Pettersens intervention.
Strangely he doesn't mention that in his interview here, http://www.golfchannel.com/media/referee-dan-maselli-comments-controversy-17/  , probably an over sight in all the controversy :thup:


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## upsidedown (Sep 22, 2015)

upsidedown said:



			As it stands there is no evidence of her being warned, Pettersen has denied it .
		
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 Ah ha , *All *players were warned in a rules meeting earlier in the week according to Carin Koch in press conference afterwards , 6.15 http://www.golfchannel.com/media/very-unfortunate-europe-talks-solheim-controversy/

Don't understand why Pettersen was away on the other side of the green whilst Lee putted ( haven't seen any footage of play up until that putt ) as if I was in her place I'd want to be standing where Hull was to let my oppo know I was there for some added pressure


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## paddyc (Sep 22, 2015)

A no gimme's rule in matchplay-simple, as in strokeplay you hole everything, then we wouldn't have this thread or all the finger pointing,crying and accusations of sportsmanship.


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## chrisd (Sep 22, 2015)

paddyc said:



			A no gimme's rule in matchplay-simple, as in strokeplay you hole everything, then we wouldn't have this thread or all the finger pointing,crying and accusations of sportsmanship.
		
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Gimee's is an essential part of what Matchplay is all about, I would just suggest a universally understood way of conceding just like we say when playing a provisional and then, and only then, would a player pick up


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## jonny1409 (Sep 23, 2015)

Regardless of who was right and who was wrong, whether Lee had been warned before or not, etc, etc, etc - I'd love to see what everyone's opinion would be if this were the Ryder Cup and it was someone like Patrick Reed in Petterson's shoes? I wonder if everyone would be cutting him the same amount of slack?

Unfortunately anything like the Ryder / Solheim Cup which is predicated on team rivalry means home bias is likely going to slip into people's thoughts, whether consciously or not.


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## ShankyBoy (Sep 23, 2015)

It's quite amusing which female golfer represents the R&A on their rules academy website and they even get her name wrong also!


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## delc (Sep 23, 2015)

ShankyBoy said:



			It's quite amusing which female golfer represents the R&A on their rules academy website and they even get her name wrong also!
		
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She should be pretty red hot on the rules then, which was probably the problem in the Solheim Cup incident!  :mmm:


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## HomerJSimpson (Sep 23, 2015)

I still think Lee needs to take a degree of responsibility and issue her own apology and admit she was wrong initially to pick up the marker when she couldn't be 100% certain it had been given. Doubt she ever will


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